From: dc-cycles-digest-request@XXXXXX (The dc-cycles list administrator) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: dc-cycles digest for 10/10/08 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ __ /-----\ __ 'dc-cycles' is an unmoderated email discussion list (__\/ _____ \/__) about motorcycling in the Washington D.C. area. =( \___/ )= \ ___ / An archive of the dc-cycles list is available at: | / _ \ | http://www.dc-cycles.org/ \ || || / \|| ||/ Subscribe/unsubscribe requests should be sent to: \| |/ dc-cycles-digest-request@XXXXXX |_| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=rTO1I49FW00A:10 a=gVYFhBizLF0A:10 a=la7326pwF56tz4nK7yUA:9 a=h6ec9MvfA2Tw-fkh0OMA:7 a=_H8vsDUceV8wzLsktbWUtSwtJSIA:4 a=MSl-tDqOz04A:10 a=KUJAPYlYduUA:10 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX (B-DC cycles) Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2008 23:12:14 +0000 X-Authenticated-Sender: UGVuZ3VpbkJpa2VyQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] NHTSA to push for mandatory training for m/c license --===============2137715941== -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: skip > > > this brings up an interesting point... is the fact that we're making > cars safer, and advertising that fact, making people less concerned > about their driving? Can you say HELL YES! As long as _they_ feel safe nothing and no one else matters. > motorcyclists are acutely aware of the dangers they face, and as such, > are aggressively pursue their own safety. Aggressive driving? That’s illegal! I'm telling! > a friend proposed the following: instead of an airbag, have a 12" steel > spike in the center of the steering wheel. So instead they installed a bomb #:-) > The one about the spike has been around for a _very_ long time I used to say it all the time when I was a kid. And _that_ was long before the damn air bombs. Sorry air bags. If they ever showed a film of just how violent that steering wheel bomb is when it detonates people would be far less in favor of the damn things. But they never do, they always show a slow motion pillow unfolding to cushion the noggin in fluffy comfort. Improved seats and seat belts would save far more lives for far less money but that would put the decision to protect oneself into _our_ hands and the safetycraps would never allow that, god forbid they allow Darwin to work. -- John W. --===============2137715941== _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles --===============2137715941==-- _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) X-rim-org-msg-ref-id: 1946664030 To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles-bounces@XXXXXX, "List DC Cycles" From: dcmcrider@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 01:36:44 +0000 Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] NHTSA to push for mandatory training for m/c license Penguin worte: "If they ever showed a film of just how violent that steering wheel bomb is when it detonates people would be far less in favor of the damn things." ------- Crashes are sudden and violent. DAMHIK! If an air bag didn't go off like a "bomb" it wouldn't work. I know you know that, but as you say, most people have those super slo-mo videos in mind. Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=rTO1I49FW00A:10 a=gVYFhBizLF0A:10 a=THRIbKzy312D8gAUhQQA:9 a=8Us_3Eqmmij2Mkw9hm4A:7 a=pO-BuHp5KPXOmdf7O73oLSTNcn4A:4 a=MSl-tDqOz04A:10 a=KUJAPYlYduUA:10 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX (B-DC cycles) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 02:11:34 +0000 X-Authenticated-Sender: UGVuZ3VpbkJpa2VyQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] NHTSA to push for mandatory training for m/c license --===============0311631743== -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: dcmcrider@XXXXXX > Penguin worte: > >> "If they ever showed a film of just how violent that steering wheel bomb is when >> it detonates people would be far less in favor of the damn things." > ------- > Crashes are sudden and violent. DAMHIK! If an air bag didn't go off like a > "bomb" it wouldn't work. Tell me something I don't know. Of course to work at all it needs to expand at tremendous velocity. But it _is_ expanded by an explosive charge and as such is not a “bomb” in quotation marks, but a real honest to god BOMB! It is a bomb, it can and has _killed_ people and injured countless others. When the damn things started killing people, mostly children for gods sake, did they say “oops it didn’t work, sorry”? Hell no they “fixed” it by making it even more complicated and expensive. If the government had not made the manufacturers immune to liability they would have been sued out of existence years ago. My problem is what I stated, changes to the seat belts, seats, and I am willing to add, door frames. Would cost far less and be as safe in single impact crashes and far safer in multi impact crashes. I mean does NASCAR use airbags? Hell no and they survive crashes that would kill us in any multi airbag cage. The problem is that that solution would put the decision to protect ourselves or not in our hands and the safetycraps cannot tolerate that. No need to put a spike in the steering wheel, they put a bomb in it, but they are not willing to show that to people hence the nice fluffy pillows. -- John W. --===============0311631743== _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles --===============0311631743==-- _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2008 23:35:51 -0400 From: "Mike B." To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] NHTSA to push for mandatory training for m/c license dcmcrider@XXXXXX wrote: > Penguin worte: > > "If they ever showed a film of just how violent that steering wheel bomb is when it detonates people would be far less in favor of the damn things." > ------- > Crashes are sudden and violent. DAMHIK! If an air bag didn't go off like a "bomb" it wouldn't work. I know you know that, but as you say, most people have those super slo-mo videos in mind. They should watch more of Mythbusters and Smash Lab then...and see them get used to fire things over 100' into the air, or to propel a metal cart with a person on it. They are violent, and they hurt, or even kill...but then, steering wheels, windshields and old style metal dashboards do that even more. The best way to survive a crash is to be elsewhere at the time it happens. -- Mike B. -- '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=rTO1I49FW00A:10 a=gVYFhBizLF0A:10 a=szqlrC8eCPnIa2sTfukA:9 a=PUyMaii9c0W_0YOV1osWC2nG77YA:4 a=nu8u5PpaTKsA:10 a=KUJAPYlYduUA:10 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX (B-DC cycles) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 04:48:15 +0000 X-Authenticated-Sender: UGVuZ3VpbkJpa2VyQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] NHTSA to push for mandatory training for m/c license -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Mike B." > They are violent, and they hurt, or even kill...but then, steering > wheels, windshields and old style metal dashboards do that even more. But even old style seat belts will prevent all of those injuries, no need for a bomb. > The best way to survive a crash is to be elsewhere at the time it happens. Absofriknlutely, the motor cyclists friend---avoidance. -- John W. _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 02:10:47 -0400 From: "Mike B." To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] NHTSA to push for mandatory training for m/c license PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > From: "Mike B." > >> They are violent, and they hurt, or even kill...but then, steering >> wheels, windshields and old style metal dashboards do that even more. > > But even old style seat belts will prevent all of those injuries, no need for a bomb. Not always. I was present for a crash on I-295 south a bunch of years ago where a car was hit in the side by a bus. She was fishtailing on wet road from improper technique and overly hard braking resulting from tailgating, was hit from behind by a car that was following too close, and started spinning, then the bus, which was sliding on locked wheels, hit her broadside on the passenger door and knocked her across two lanes of traffic onto the right shoulder (she started in the left lane, and this was at the Bolling AFB exit). Despite wearing not only a seatbelt but also a shoulder harness, she still managed to hit her forehead on the windshield hard enough to break it. Luckily, the pressure cut on her forehead was the only injury. There were 9 cars, one delivery truck and the bus involved that had damage, and me and one other car that had been in the middle of it but managed to avoid getting hit. All damage was due to following too close, including the initial incident that started the whole thing, but made worse by the wet road surface. Most vehicles were about 1-2 car lengths apart at 50 mph when it started. I.e. typical D.C. area driving style. BTW, the bus wasn't even slowed noticeably by the impact that threw the car off the road and smashed one side in so far you could see the differential while standing next to the car. The bus pulled off a couple of hundred yards down the road with a couple of broken lights on one side. Really great demonstration of the effects of m in p=mv. >> The best way to survive a crash is to be elsewhere at the time it happens. > > Absofriknlutely, the motor cyclists friend---avoidance. And for cars, perhaps ejection seats? I thought this might be a great solution until I considered two things: 1) in a head on crash, you would likely still hit the ejecting occupants of the other car, and 2) crashes in tunnels or under overpasses. Also, ejection seats tend to be pretty violent and involve explosives too and I don't want to be driving next to someone who hasn't had theirs serviced in 50,000 miles. -- Mike B. _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 07:15:15 -0400 From: "Wayne Edelen" To: "B-DC cycles" Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] NHTSA to push for mandatory training for m/c license On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 10:11 PM, wrote: > > My problem is what I stated, changes to the seat belts, seats, and I am willing to add, door frames. Would cost far less and be as safe in single impact crashes and far safer in multi impact crashes. I mean does NASCAR use airbags? Hell no and they survive crashes that would kill us in any multi airbag cage. The problem is that that solution would put the decision to protect ourselves or not in our hands and the safetycraps cannot tolerate that. > When you're in a race car, you're surrounded by a cage and bolted in using a 5 or 6 pt harness that doesn't allow movement. You're also wearing a helmet rated for rollbar/cage impacts (and HANS). Totally different environments. The reason NASCAR or other racing organizations don't use airbags is because they rely on the safety of harnesses and no-compromise rollcages, among other non-streetable items, to protect the drivers. You can't compare a production car for the masses to a race car when it comes to safety equipment. I have 2 street driven cars with bars, harnesses and racing seats in them. One of them has airbags, the other was made in '69, so it lacks all that dangerous factory equipment ;-) On the street, in both cars, I wear 3 point belts instead of using my 6pt harnesses. If you've never been strapped into a racing seat with harnesses, stop by and I'll let you try it out. You'll see why that equipment wouldn't be practical for a street car. -- Wayne _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 08:00:25 -0400 From: "Aki Damme" <01dyna@XXXXXX> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.9 Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] MC can use HOT lanes Tsk tsk Chris. You're not reading it correctly. they mean vehicles carrying either three or more people, or a motorcycle, a bus and/or emergency vehicles can ride in the HOT lanes. That means you'd better have a HUGE trunk in your car if you want to ride in the HOT lane ;-) -aki On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 6:00 PM, Chris Norloff wrote: > Was it confirmed that motorcycles can use the new HOT lanes on I-495? > > Here's a link that says we can: > http://www.vamegaprojects.com/projectSummary02.html > > "Vehicles carrying three or more people, motorcycles, buses and emergency > vehicles will use the HOT lanes free of charge." > > > Chris > > > > _______________________________________________ > dc-cycles mailing list > dc-cycles@XXXXXX > http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles > _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 08:34:50 -0400 From: "Thomas Jordan" Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.9 Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] MC can use HOT lanes Tsk tsk, Aki. You're not reading it correctly. As it's written, vehicles carrying *all* of the listed items will use the HOT lanes free of charge. Also note that the items are pluralized. Thus, at a minimum, you need to be driving a vehicle carrying three people, two motorcycles, two buses, and two emergency vehicles. And a partridge in a pear tree. -T On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 8:00 AM, Aki Damme <01dyna@XXXXXX> wrote: > Tsk tsk Chris. You're not reading it correctly. > > they mean vehicles carrying either three or more people, or a motorcycle, a > bus and/or > emergency vehicles can ride in the HOT lanes. > > > That means you'd better have a HUGE trunk in your car if you want to ride > in > the HOT lane ;-) > > -aki > > > > On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 6:00 PM, Chris Norloff wrote: > > > Was it confirmed that motorcycles can use the new HOT lanes on I-495? > > > > Here's a link that says we can: > > http://www.vamegaprojects.com/projectSummary02.html > > > > "Vehicles carrying three or more people, motorcycles, buses and emergency > > vehicles will use the HOT lanes free of charge." _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 08:51:45 -0400 From: "Aki Damme" <01dyna@XXXXXX> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.9 Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] MC can use HOT lanes dammit! You're absolutely correct my good man! I must read more carefully! I would of most certainly been ticketed had I not noticed the crafty way they infused the plurals! On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 8:34 AM, Thomas Jordan wrote: > Tsk tsk, Aki. You're not reading it correctly. > > As it's written, vehicles carrying *all* of the listed items will use the > HOT lanes free of charge. Also note that the items are pluralized. Thus, at > a minimum, you need to be driving a vehicle carrying three people, two > motorcycles, two buses, and two emergency vehicles. > And a partridge in a pear tree. > > > -T > > > On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 8:00 AM, Aki Damme <01dyna@XXXXXX> wrote: > > > Tsk tsk Chris. You're not reading it correctly. > > > > they mean vehicles carrying either three or more people, or a motorcycle, > a > > bus and/or > > emergency vehicles can ride in the HOT lanes. > > > > > > That means you'd better have a HUGE trunk in your car if you want to ride > > in > > the HOT lane ;-) > > > > -aki > > > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 6:00 PM, Chris Norloff > wrote: > > > > > Was it confirmed that motorcycles can use the new HOT lanes on I-495? > > > > > > Here's a link that says we can: > > > http://www.vamegaprojects.com/projectSummary02.html > > > > > > "Vehicles carrying three or more people, motorcycles, buses and > emergency > > > vehicles will use the HOT lanes free of charge." > _______________________________________________ > dc-cycles mailing list > dc-cycles@XXXXXX > http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles > _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) X-rim-org-msg-ref-id: 1731843138 To: "Thomas Jordan" From: dcmcrider@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 12:49:59 +0000 Cc: List DC Cycles Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] MC can use HOT lanes All I can say is that it must have been written by an engineer. [Ducking and running] :) P W (AIA) Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: "Thomas Jordan" Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 08:34:50 Cc: Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] MC can use HOT lanes Tsk tsk, Aki. You're not reading it correctly. As it's written, vehicles carrying *all* of the listed items will use the HOT lanes free of charge. Also note that the items are pluralized. Thus, at a minimum, you need to be driving a vehicle carrying three people, two motorcycles, two buses, and two emergency vehicles. And a partridge in a pear tree. -T On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 8:00 AM, Aki Damme <01dyna@XXXXXX> wrote: > Tsk tsk Chris. You're not reading it correctly. > > they mean vehicles carrying either three or more people, or a motorcycle, a > bus and/or > emergency vehicles can ride in the HOT lanes. > > > That means you'd better have a HUGE trunk in your car if you want to ride > in > the HOT lane ;-) > > -aki > > > > On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 6:00 PM, Chris Norloff wrote: > > > Was it confirmed that motorcycles can use the new HOT lanes on I-495? > > > > Here's a link that says we can: > > http://www.vamegaprojects.com/projectSummary02.html > > > > "Vehicles carrying three or more people, motorcycles, buses and emergency > > vehicles will use the HOT lanes free of charge." _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 09:13:13 -0400 From: "Aki Damme" <01dyna@XXXXXX> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.9 Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] MC can use HOT lanes All I know is that I needed that bit of humor this morning. I figure that between this list and my staff, we're the only ones that even showed up for work today. -aki On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 8:49 AM, wrote: > All I can say is that it must have been written by an engineer. [Ducking > and running] :) > > P W (AIA) > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Thomas Jordan" > > Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 08:34:50 > Cc: > Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] MC can use HOT lanes > > > Tsk tsk, Aki. You're not reading it correctly. > > As it's written, vehicles carrying *all* of the listed items will use the > HOT lanes free of charge. Also note that the items are pluralized. Thus, at > a minimum, you need to be driving a vehicle carrying three people, two > motorcycles, two buses, and two emergency vehicles. > And a partridge in a pear tree. > > > -T > > > On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 8:00 AM, Aki Damme <01dyna@XXXXXX> wrote: > > > Tsk tsk Chris. You're not reading it correctly. > > > > they mean vehicles carrying either three or more people, or a motorcycle, > a > > bus and/or > > emergency vehicles can ride in the HOT lanes. > > > > > > That means you'd better have a HUGE trunk in your car if you want to ride > > in > > the HOT lane ;-) > > > > -aki > > > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 6:00 PM, Chris Norloff > wrote: > > > > > Was it confirmed that motorcycles can use the new HOT lanes on I-495? > > > > > > Here's a link that says we can: > > > http://www.vamegaprojects.com/projectSummary02.html > > > > > > "Vehicles carrying three or more people, motorcycles, buses and > emergency > > > vehicles will use the HOT lanes free of charge." > _______________________________________________ > dc-cycles mailing list > dc-cycles@XXXXXX > http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles > _______________________________________________ > dc-cycles mailing list > dc-cycles@XXXXXX > http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles > _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) From: "Dave Yates" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX X-Forwarded-For: [(null)] Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 13:25:49 +0000 Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] MC can use HOT lanes TJ corrected: Tsk tsk, Aki. You're not reading it correctly. As it's written, vehicles carrying *all* of the listed items will use the HOT lanes free of charge. Also note that the items are pluralized. Thus, at a minimum, you need to be driving a vehicle carrying three people, two motorcycles, two buses, and two emergency vehicles. And a partridge in a pear tree. [Dave] At first I sided with Aki, but reading Alger, I'm not so sure and TJ may just be right - bearing in mind we're reading a 'description', not a statute... http://www.courts.state.va.us/opinions/opnscvwp/1030848.pdf Then I found the "items tabulated in enumeration" which I think best describes the list. So, I'm back on Aki's side in this one. (p7) Think how much legal heartache could be saved by just making the lanes that all the taxpayers pay for open to all the driving taxpayers. Dave (proud to be HOV Negative) On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 8:00 AM, Aki Damme <01dyna@XXXXXX> wrote: > Tsk tsk Chris. You're not reading it correctly. > > they mean vehicles carrying either three or more people, or a motorcycle, a > bus and/or > emergency vehicles can ride in the HOT lanes. > > > That means you'd better have a HUGE trunk in your car if you want to ride > in > the HOT lane ;-) > > -aki > > > > On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 6:00 PM, Chris Norloff wrote: > > > Was it confirmed that motorcycles can use the new HOT lanes on I-495? > > > > Here's a link that says we can: > > http://www.vamegaprojects.com/projectSummary02.html > > > > "Vehicles carrying three or more people, motorcycles, buses and emergency > > vehicles will use the HOT lanes free of charge." _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles