From: dc-cycles-digest-request@XXXXXX (The dc-cycles list administrator) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: dc-cycles digest for 10/08/08 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ __ /-----\ __ 'dc-cycles' is an unmoderated email discussion list (__\/ _____ \/__) about motorcycling in the Washington D.C. area. =( \___/ )= \ ___ / An archive of the dc-cycles list is available at: | / _ \ | http://www.dc-cycles.org/ \ || || / \|| ||/ Subscribe/unsubscribe requests should be sent to: \| |/ dc-cycles-digest-request@XXXXXX |_| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: "Dave Yates" To: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 19:33:59 -0400 Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] NHTSA to push for mandatory training for m/c license Paul contributes: You'll get no arguments from me on driver training, but every time a politician tries to "get tough" the public sends mixed signals. Need I remind you of the crap-storm that ensued over "abusive driver" penalties in the Commonwealth? Expect something 100 times worse if intensified driver training were ever contemplated. ... [Dave] First, it took quite a bit of time for the abusive driver outrage to get rolling. 2nd, that was a blatant revenue generating scheme. 3rd, it only applied to residents fer the luv o' Christ. Now, NHTSA is going to try to promulgate something, Congress can stave it off, maybe if enough people sack NHTSA with opposing comments but I doubt it. A great "poison pill" option is to make whatever training they require for motorcyclists apply equally to automobile training & licensing. What motorcycle licensing and training do is provide a cooling off period and a reality check for some people. But, those people are probably already inclined to act responsibly and prudently, and currently they self-select to attend training. Or, perhaps they made a quid pro quo with a parent or Significant Other. "If I get some training, can I get a bike?" And we (in the "training community") provide an outlet for them. Not sure how, or if, we can reach the one-percenters hell-bent on offing themselves on two wheels. One of the dividends of the product safety movement (Joan Claybrook--call your office) is that personal responsibility took a back seat. If everyone is the victim of a "defective" product every time there's an unintended outcome, then why bother learning how to do *anything* properly? Big Government will protect you. We'll either just root out all those defects and idiot-proof everything. Well, it turns out on the "defects" of motorcycles is that they only have two wheels. [Dave] Surely some of that 700 billion dollars is going to motorcycle training? _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) X-YMail-OSG: 32Vi9N8VM1lXAEHxSjALQHSw0WiOFGmJyy13d6nndzldpq.kmoiXKigxXqJGWas_ScF79RJH7IPwBreifa5dDeFX_eetScQBM7JrS2GMz1nv4SU9C7twqqdT9SfV1IOIwzsTm52Lio2fvEf8RJwqujW3aBk- Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 17:42:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Leon Begeman To: DCCycles Subject: [dc-cycles] NHTSA to push for mandatory training for m/c license Matt wrote: "If Richmond is actually serious then laws prohibiting the sale of a MC to = an unlicensed operator will be on the books." =A0 The person who bought the bike doesn't usually become an operator until aft= er the sale has been completed.=A0 I know that the few times I've taken a b= ike for a test ride, the dealer did check my license.=A0 But owning and ope= rating are not the same; the requirements should also be different. =A0 or =A0 Do the owners of commercial trucks have CDL's?=A0 Should they be required t= o have one? =A0 =A0 Leon Begeman _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=rTO1I49FW00A:10 a=gVYFhBizLF0A:10 a=klq4H5Xs9m0tX9W_1jAA:9 a=iNS9_2ez_l0MmPTczhn3d6eaCjsA:4 a=rC2wZJ5BpNYA:10 a=rPt6xJ-oxjAA:10 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX (B-DC cycles) Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2008 01:38:11 +0000 X-Authenticated-Sender: UGVuZ3VpbkJpa2VyQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] NHTSA to push for mandatory training for m/c license -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: matthew patton > > "I already know how to ride, let the class out > > early because this is > > pointless" crowd /always/ wins. > only apparently if the instructor and the organization supervising him is crap. > David Hepburn would in all probability sack instructors on the spot if they > pulled something like that. Damn right he would! As would _every_ head/chief site coordinator and every instructor I have ever known would see to it that the person in charge knew about it so the bad instructor would be sacked. (And I have known a _lot_ of instructors (3 states worth)) Say what you would about the classes themselves, MSF instructors are some of the most dedicated people I know, dedicated to helping new and old riders ride safer. A great bunch of people. -- John W. _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 00:00:32 -0400 From: "Danny Motorcycle" To: "Trevor Angel" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.9 Cc: B-DC cycles Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] NHTSA to push for mandatory training for m/c license On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 2:39 PM, Trevor Angel wrote: > On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 2:09 PM, Michael Jordan > wrote: > > And then, there's graduated licensing. > > And guess what - it works... In Australia you're limited to 250cc for > the first year. Bikes like the RGV250 made a bit of a mockery of the > intention (to keep people on "slow" bikes for a year) but they're a > thing of the past now anyway. These days a ZZR250 is a fairly sensible > bike for a new rider who wants something sporty. > Even if it did work, the gov't should have no place telling us what we can buy and operate safely. Your rights exist up until they interfere with anothers rights. Do you think it would be right that the govt tells you, if you wanna own a car, you have to own a smart car first? Well that's not going to cut it for some families. It's the same principle and if they have the right to do one, they have the right to do the other. I dont' know about you, but I'm already in the mindset that the DMV already too problematic (as well as unwarranted) already. Then what's next? guns? well guns are more dangerous than bikes and we already regulate bikes! You may own a .22 for a year.. then we'll see. Oh sorry you can't get anything other than a .32 because tis' a military class weapon. Food? "well studies show america is obese.. so you can only get a bigmac meal if you're body fat and colesterol are in a given range. I'm sorry fatboy here try our plain lettuce salad, as required by law". And what about people who want to only ride on private property. Would they have to get a license too? It makes me cringe when I see inexperienced riders get straight on a > high-performance bike that they don't have the skills, experience or > road-sense for... or dare I say it... "maturity"... > Too many people want laws that would make them "feeeeeel" better. Someone said something about kids in helmets translates to adults in helmets. That's funny, because it seems like most of the people I know who go to no helmet law states decide not to wear their helmet. Yes they are idiots but the point still stands, you can make the laws, but the laws don't mold your intelligence nor morality. If there's one thing I believe in, it's whenever the gov't cries that there is a problem, hold on to your wallet because they will spend money in the name of fixing it, not fix it, then spend more and more money saying it's needed and never fix it. That money doesn't magically appear out of thin air. That money is coming from somewhere. Gov't hasn't stopped crime, starvation, poverty, etc in all it's centuries of existence, private people and organizations are still chipping in to help our fellow man. Gov't is doing a bang up swell job with educating our kids too. We'd be better off addressing our problems without the gov't. If someone is stupid enough to go outthere and darwin themselves, I say let them have at it. I'd rather they do it on a motorcycle than with something more deadly to other people. What is more likely the composition of gov't agencies, red tape, apathy, abuse, criminality, or good will and benefit to the average person? Who here is happy "Oh I have to go to the gov't today". Who wants more gov't? If govt really wants to help, it will run itself like a business, exist off of profits, provide while profiting. Currently it's run like a mafia extortion racket, You give us our weekly payoff and we'll keep the boogyman from harming you. Does anyone really expect the govt to "add a service to the public" and at the same time somehow spend less money in the budget and not tax us more? and finally for all the gov't lovers, ask yourself how much money should the gov't take from an individual as a fair amount... and then go look at your paychecks and see if they are taking more than that fair amount, or less than that fair amount.. Then tell me you want more gov't programs and more taxes taken out of your pay check. Gov't is no substitute for personal responsibility. _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) From: "Dave Yates" To: "'B-DC cycles'" Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 07:57:13 -0400 Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] NHTSA to push for mandatory training for m/c license Today's roanoke times, whose editorial board never met a government program it didn't like: http://www.roanoke.com/editorials/wb/179614 This same set of figures and stories will be echoed by venues that NHTSA thinks favorable to gauge public reaction. Dave Snipped DM Diatribe: Gov't hasn't stopped crime, starvation, poverty, etc in all it's centuries of existence, private people and organizations are still chipping in to help our fellow man. Gov't is doing a bang up swell job with educating our kids too. We'd be better off addressing our problems without the gov't. If someone is stupid enough to go outthere and darwin themselves, I say let them have at it. I'd rather they do it on a motorcycle than with something more deadly to other people. ...for all the gov't lovers, ask yourself how much money should the gov't take from an individual as a fair amount... and then go look at your paychecks and see if they are taking more than that fair amount, or less than that fair amount.. Then tell me you want more gov't programs and more taxes taken out of your pay check. Gov't is no substitute for personal responsibility. [Dave] That about sums it up nicely. _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 11:07:31 -0400 From: "Danny Motorcycle" To: "Dave Yates" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.9 Cc: B-DC cycles Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] NHTSA to push for mandatory training for m/c license And it's also nice to know that the Geniuses are focusing on motorcycle deaths (which someone said was what, 5% of accidents?) instead of alcohol which plays a role in 40 to 50% of vehicle accidents/fatalities... (roughly 20,000 people a year) which also is more of a problem to innocent families than motorcycle rider fatalities who assume their own risk. So way to go Govt teeters! what's next a gov't church? "I see people driving crazy on the highway! we must do something because it bothers me to see it!" _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) X-YMail-OSG: TVSGZQ0VM1ncLLydhdVM2AFJ20lDJm4p5HeZP1T88mSLxHC3nRHm2kL3Dcf5Y2edU3Fpc.hYuOmR36Ix1_12617FBV0DznNgt8Bkal5u_7AQ94eq9_ScfeF5i7bjg0QadD48sL6V7D07SIa03eHRfhaBZfyQD7weKVZ1lDgG Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 08:36:35 -0700 (PDT) From: matthew patton To: B-DC cycles Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] NHTSA to push for mandatory training for m/c license > So way to go Govt teeters! what's next a gov't > church? Where have you been hiding? Obama Truth Squads...200mil in foreign campaign contributions, American reporters detained in Kenya for trying to hold a press conference (this morning), submarine adoption of Kyoto (via 700B "bailout" bill), inquisitions against Wallstreet, refusal to prosecute Sen Dod and Barney Frank for crimes against Americans and the rest of the global economy (nee Freddie/Fanny), deliberate vote fraud, accolytes of Saul Olinski (Rules for Radicals) aka Obama. Oh I don't know, the Gov't already has a church. It's called Marxist Socialism. _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 12:05:39 -0400 From: "smthng else" To: "DC Cycles" Subject: [dc-cycles] Trailer insurance in VA? Hey all, I'm probably going to be getting a motorcycle trailer in the next few weeks and figured I'd run a few questions out for those who've already dealt with it instead of digging through the DMV and insurance maze. In Virginia, does a trailer need insurance? If so, does it need it's own policy, or is it normally included on the towing vehicle? If involved in an accident and the trailer get's toasted, is it normally just covered for any liability caused by the trailer, or is the trailer itself normally covered for repairs, assuming I have full coverage on my tow vehicle? --Jonathan "smthng" Kalmes Springfield, VA 2005 Yamaha FJR1300ABS - "Blue Bayou" 2006 Jeep Unlimited Rubicon - "Teflon" 2008 Kawasaki KLR 650 - It's here, but it hasn't earned a name yet. ;) http://smthng.info "Shake well... some settling is natural." _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) X-YMail-OSG: WxlbdtAVM1ny0.FHhlyK3Q8jarhLnajtsP7eisD188dWVzYj3V5EvJFvVa.Psf3tWw-- Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 09:46:05 -0700 (PDT) From: matthew patton To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: [dc-cycles] trailer for sale speaking of trailers. My parents have a 6x12 v-nosed enclosed trailer that is 4 months old they want to sell. asking $2500 I believe. It has a side door, roof vent, and big rear door/ramp. The floor has outdoor carpeting and there are tie-down rings recessed into the floor. I'm also thinking about selling my triple-rail capable trailer (currently rails for 2 bikes) for like $600. _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) From: Doug Allis To: , B-DC cycles Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 12:57:37 -0400 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.9 Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] NHTSA to push for mandatory training for m/c license Can we please not take this list into a political debate? I fear that we will start bombarding it with a ton of messages... So I'm not saying how I feel about this election -- here.thanks, Doug > Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 08:36:35 -0700> From: pattonme@XXXXXX> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX> Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] NHTSA to push for mandatory training for m/c license> > > So way to go Govt teeters! what's next a gov't> > church?> > Where have you been hiding? Obama Truth Squads...200mil in foreign campaign contributions, American reporters detained in Kenya for trying to hold a press conference (this morning), submarine adoption of Kyoto (via 700B "bailout" bill), inquisitions against Wallstreet, refusal to prosecute Sen Dod and Barney Frank for crimes against Americans and the rest of the global economy (nee Freddie/Fanny), deliberate vote fraud, accolytes of Saul Olinski (Rules for Radicals) aka Obama.> > Oh I don't know, the Gov't already has a church. It's called Marxist Socialism.> > > > _______________________________________________> dc-cycles mailing list> dc-cycles@XXXXXX> http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _________________________________________________________________ Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with Windows Live. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093185mrt/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 13:08:26 -0400 From: "Danny Motorcycle" To: pattonme@XXXXXX X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.9 Cc: B-DC cycles Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] NHTSA to push for mandatory training for m/c license You dont' have to tell me about mr "my muslim faith", mr "i'm giving 95% of americans a tax cut while increasing spending" without explaining how. I can see him now taxing motorcycles because they're not gas saving family mini vans nor scooters. (motorelated) _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 13:13:13 -0400 From: SassyDiva To: "Doug Allis" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.9 Cc: B-DC cycles Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] NHTSA to push for mandatory training for m/c license i dont think that 16/17/18 year old should be out riding a motorcycle without some sort of adult supervision. i have a 13 yr old and if he wanted to get his mc license at 16 i would let him BUT he would never be allowed to ride without me, and i would take EXTREME measures to ensure that he would never have the opportunity to possible break that family rule. the thing is that i see ppl in their 20's and even 30's riding their bikes like complete morons. i know in the state of PA they offer the msf class for free. speaking from experience, the msf class at pgcc is HORRIBLE. i wouldnt recommend them to my worst enemy. maybe the govt. will make it more appealing to interested persons to teach the msf class. do you all really think it's a bad idea for the govt. to encourage ppl to get their license? On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 12:57 PM, Doug Allis wrote: > Can we please not take this list into a political debate? I fear that we > will start bombarding it with a ton of messages... So I'm not saying how I > feel about this election -- here.thanks, > Doug > > > > > Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 08:36:35 -0700> From: pattonme@XXXXXX> To: > dc-cycles@XXXXXX> Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] NHTSA to push for > mandatory training for m/c license> > > So way to go Govt teeters! what's > next a gov't> > church?> > Where have you been hiding? Obama Truth > Squads...200mil in foreign campaign contributions, American reporters > detained in Kenya for trying to hold a press conference (this morning), > submarine adoption of Kyoto (via 700B "bailout" bill), inquisitions against > Wallstreet, refusal to prosecute Sen Dod and Barney Frank for crimes against > Americans and the rest of the global economy (nee Freddie/Fanny), deliberate > vote fraud, accolytes of Saul Olinski (Rules for Radicals) aka Obama.> > Oh > I don't know, the Gov't already has a church. It's called Marxist > Socialism.> > > > _______________________________________________> dc-cycles > mailing list> dc-cycles@XXXXXX> > http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles > _________________________________________________________________ > Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with Windows > Live. > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093185mrt/direct/01/ > _______________________________________________ > dc-cycles mailing list > dc-cycles@XXXXXX > http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles > -- Sassy Diva Men are like parking spaces; all the good ones are taken and the only ones left are handicapped. _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=bt-Ern4gxP0A:10 a=Fqr9jLDg3n8A:10 a=9owOnXT9HWofAiXnmw8A:9 a=HpwfKdcA7iD8uKV0s8g84wISx2IA:4 a=MSl-tDqOz04A:10 a=KUJAPYlYduUA:10 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX (B-DC cycles) Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2008 17:32:50 +0000 X-Authenticated-Sender: UGVuZ3VpbkJpa2VyQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] Trailer insurance in VA? --===============1951522940== -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "smthng else" > I'm probably going to be getting a motorcycle trailer in the next few > weeks and figured I'd run a few questions out To carry a motorcycle, or pull behind? (I have both #:-/ > ) It’s been 6 years or so but if I remember right you gotta have it and it’s a separate policy (I know you do and it is here in MD,) > -- John Walters 99 Honda St1100 (Over 100,000 mi.) 83 BMW R80RT (Over 200,000 mi.) 76 Honda CR250M --===============1951522940== _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles --===============1951522940==-- _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 13:46:17 -0400 From: "smthng else" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] Trailer insurance in VA? On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 1:32 PM, wrote: > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > From: "smthng else" >> I'm probably going to be getting a motorcycle trailer in the next few >> weeks and figured I'd run a few questions out > > To carry a motorcycle, or pull behind? (I have both #:-/ > ) Sorry... for towing a bike. I think Doug pretty much answered everything I needed. Just need to get on the horn to the insurance company to make sure it's all good. Thanks Doug! --Jonathan "smthng" Kalmes Springfield, VA 2005 Yamaha FJR1300ABS - "Blue Bayou" 2006 Jeep Unlimited Rubicon - "Teflon" 2008 Kawasaki KLR 650 - It's here, but it hasn't earned a name yet. ;) http://smthng.info "Shake well... some settling is natural." _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 14:02:41 -0400 From: "Danny Motorcycle" To: SassyDiva X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.9 Cc: B-DC cycles Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] NHTSA to push for mandatory training for m/c license On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 1:13 PM, SassyDiva wrote: > i dont think that 16/17/18 year old should be out riding a motorcycle > without some sort of adult supervision. i have a 13 yr old and if he wanted > to get his mc license at 16 i would let him BUT he would never be allowed > to > ride without me, and i would take EXTREME measures to ensure that he would > never have the opportunity to possible break that family rule. > I wouldn't let my kid ride on my insurance, nor would i buy him a street bike. At a certain age/cc I woudln' buy him anymore. I'd let him buy his own or something. Motorcycling can be deadly. it shouldn't just be given to anyone. If they are mature and responsible enough to obtain it on their own.. then they should be given guidance and freedom. That's how I would do it with my son. But then also I might have him start being responsible for his own costs of living before I let him by expensive toys and live in my house :) > the thing is that i see ppl in their 20's and even 30's riding their bikes > like complete morons. So is it age dependant or not? > i know in the state of PA they offer the msf class > for free. speaking from experience, the msf class at pgcc is HORRIBLE. i > wouldnt recommend them to my worst enemy. maybe the govt. will make it more > appealing to interested persons to teach the msf class. do you all really > think it's a bad idea for the govt. to encourage ppl to get their license? > Possibly yes. The gov't doesnt' have to encourage anyone to get thier license it already requires it, if you want to ride without being charged with a crime. Maybe some people shouldn't be encouraged to get a license because they might not ride otherwise, and thus not get on two wheels and act like a fool. A license doesnt' change a person from being a fool. HE just becomes a fool with a license. _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 14:07:37 -0400 From: "Danny Motorcycle" To: you@XXXXXX X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.9 Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] Trailer insurance in VA? >From what I recall, trailer insurance is damn cheap, and thus worth getting. I think it needs it's own insurance for comprehensive, but liability only the tow vehicle covers it. Even if it's a $300 trailer, your insurance might only be $14 (or less) per year with a good agency. _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 14:43:55 -0400 From: "Wayne Edelen" To: "B-DC cycles" Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] Trailer insurance in VA? On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 1:32 PM, wrote: > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > From: "smthng else" > >> I'm probably going to be getting a motorcycle trailer in the next few >> weeks and figured I'd run a few questions out > > To carry a motorcycle, or pull behind? (I have both #:-/ > ) > > It's been 6 years or so but if I remember right you gotta have it and it's a separate policy (I know you do and it is here in MD,) I have an 18' Brimar open car hauler insured here in MD. The way my agent explained it to me is that the insurance on the trailer is for damage and theft while it is not hooked up to the tow vehicle. Your tow vehicle insurance will cover you on the road. VA is nice because they have permanent trailer tags, something we don't have here in MD. I think the insurance runs me $17/year for a trailer that was about $2500 new. -- Wayne _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 15:26:51 -0400 From: "Danny Motorcycle" To: "Wayne Edelen" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.9 Cc: B-DC cycles Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] Trailer insurance in VA? Some racers in MD get out of state tags, PA i think.. for multiple years.. cheaper than in maryland. They go through Staab agency. http://www.staabagency.com/ you can get tags for like, up to 12 years I believe? and pretty cheaply. _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2008 18:21:06 -0400 From: "Mike B." To: you@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] Trailer insurance in VA? smthng else wrote: > Sorry... for towing a bike. I think Doug pretty much answered > everything I needed. Just need to get on the horn to the insurance > company to make sure it's all good. Thanks Doug! Not sure what the prior answer was, but for me, in Maryland, with USAA, the trailer is covered by my homeowner's policy when it's in the garage, by my auto policy when it's attached to the Jeep, and only needs its own policy when it's not at home, and not attached to the Jeep...which, so far, has been never (I use it to haul the bike in for service primarily). Getting it covered for that "gap" runs $16/year, and is optional. -- Mike B. -- '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles