From: dc-cycles-digest-request@XXXXXX (The dc-cycles list administrator) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: dc-cycles digest for 09/17/08 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ __ /-----\ __ 'dc-cycles' is an unmoderated email discussion list (__\/ _____ \/__) about motorcycling in the Washington D.C. area. =( \___/ )= \ ___ / An archive of the dc-cycles list is available at: | / _ \ | http://www.dc-cycles.org/ \ || || / \|| ||/ Subscribe/unsubscribe requests should be sent to: \| |/ dc-cycles-digest-request@XXXXXX |_| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 19:45:42 -0400 From: Tom To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.9 Subject: [dc-cycles] DC Parking Hello everyone -- I've been emailing back and forth with various departments of the District Government. Here's the latest information I have about parallel versus perpindicular parking on DC streets: ** *~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~* *From:* Seales Jr., Frank (DDOT) *Sent:* Monday, September 15, 2008 12:55 PM *To:* Jim Graham *Subject:* FW: Parking regulations involving Motorcycles Councilmember Graham, DDOT is in the process of proposing several clarifying amendments to DCMR Title 18, Chapter 24; and in fact we had already drafted a proposed amendment to the section dealing with parking parallel to the curb. I will ask my staff to revisit this and to consider including an additional amendment to address the issue of motorcycle parking raised by Mr. Ohs in the email chain below. Thanks so much for bringing this issue to my attention, FS ------------------------------ *From:* Jim Graham *Sent:* Tuesday, September 09, 2008 9:02 AM *To:* Tom Ohs; Seales2, Frank (DDOT) *Cc:* Terry, Billy (DDOT); Whalen, Charles (DDOT); Harvey, Damon (DDOT); Kass, Jonathon (COUNCIL) *Subject:* RE: Parking regulations involving Motorcycles The regulations can be amended one of two ways. By DDOT itself, or by the Council. Let me obtain the reaction of DDOT's Actg dir to this proposal. Bests ------------------------------ *From:* Tom Ohs *Sent:* Tuesday, September 09, 2008 8:08 AM *To:* Jim Graham *Cc:* Terry, Billy (DDOT); Whalen, Charles (DDOT); Harvey, Damon (DDOT); Kass, Jonathon (COUNCIL) *Subject:* Re: Parking regulations involving Motorcycles Jim, I asked if someone could "explain to me the proper channels and the process involved with getting addendums or modifications made to Title 18? [re: DCMR Title 18] ... "Specifically, I would like to propose an addendum to explicitly state that motorcycles should be parked at 90 degrees (or as close as feasibly possible without blocking on-coming traffic) to the curb at all times, regardless of location." Thanks, Tom Ohs ----- Original Message ---- From: Jim Graham To: Tom Ohs Cc: "Terry, Billy (DDOT)"; "Whalen, Charles (DDOT)"; "Simpson, Greg (DMV)"; "Babers, Lucinda (DMV)"; "Harvey, Damon (DDOT)"; "Kass, Jonathon (COUNCIL)" Subject: RE: Parking regulations involving Motorcycles Please restate your specific questions, and we will obtain the answers. Bests Jim ------------------------------ *From:* Babers, Lucinda (DMV) *Sent:* Monday, September 08, 2008 7:51 PM *To:* Tom Ohs; Harvey, Damon (DDOT); Kass, Jonathon (COUNCIL); Jim Graham *Cc:* Terry, Billy (DDOT); Whalen, Charles (DDOT); Simpson, Greg (DMV) *Subject:* RE: Parking regulations involving Motorcycles Mr Ohs, Sorry for the confusion. In the District, parking is regulated by DDOT (through laws passed by the Council), enforced by DPW (and law enforcement) and adjudicated by DMV. Therefore, different portions of Title 18 are applicable to each of these agencies depending on the functionality. The DMV website contains the main portions of Title 18 which impact our operations; however, often times, a chapter within Title 18 are actually applicable to multiple agencies. This is due to DDOT, DPW and DMV being one huge agency several years ago; basically governed by one main piece of legislation=85Title 18. However, when you comment on parking regulations, i.e., in terms of addendums/modifications/etc, then that's a DDOT function (through the Mayor). Of course, the Council can always introduce and pass laws. I'm sure either DDOT or the Council can provide you with additional information in terms of your request for guidance on changing parking regulations. Thanks! lucinda ** _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) X-rim-org-msg-ref-id: 85136685 To: "Tom" , "List DC Cycles" From: dcmcrider@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 00:16:20 +0000 Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] DC Parking Good stuff. You might also point out that DDOT itself violates this provisi= on in its motorcycle parking stalls. In terms of "best practices" we've already discussed Chicago. Here's anothe= r one, from Columbus, Ohio. The city is creating motorcycle and scooter par= king "corrals" in leftover street parking spaces. They're free for the time= being. P Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: Tom Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 19:45:42 = To: Subject: [dc-cycles] DC Parking Hello everyone -- I've been emailing back and forth with various departments of the District Government. Here's the latest information I have about parallel versus perpindicular parking on DC streets: ** *~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~* *From:* Seales Jr., Frank (DDOT) *Sent:* Monday, September 15, 2008 12:55 PM *To:* Jim Graham *Subject:* FW: Parking regulations involving Motorcycles Councilmember Graham, DDOT is in the process of proposing several clarifying amendments to DCMR Title 18, Chapter 24; and in fact we had already drafted a proposed amendment to the section dealing with parking parallel to the curb. I will ask my staff to revisit this and to consider including an additional amendment to address the issue of motorcycle parking raised by Mr. Ohs in the email chain below. Thanks so much for bringing this issue to my attention, FS ------------------------------ *From:* Jim Graham *Sent:* Tuesday, September 09, 2008 9:02 AM *To:* Tom Ohs; Seales2, Frank (DDOT) *Cc:* Terry, Billy (DDOT); Whalen, Charles (DDOT); Harvey, Damon (DDOT); Kass, Jonathon (COUNCIL) *Subject:* RE: Parking regulations involving Motorcycles The regulations can be amended one of two ways. By DDOT itself, or by the Council. Let me obtain the reaction of DDOT's Actg dir to this proposal. Bests ------------------------------ *From:* Tom Ohs *Sent:* Tuesday, September 09, 2008 8:08 AM *To:* Jim Graham *Cc:* Terry, Billy (DDOT); Whalen, Charles (DDOT); Harvey, Damon (DDOT); Kass, Jonathon (COUNCIL) *Subject:* Re: Parking regulations involving Motorcycles Jim, I asked if someone could "explain to me the proper channels and the process involved with getting addendums or modifications made to Title 18? [re: DCMR Title 18] ... "Specifically, I would like to propose an addendum to explicitly state that motorcycles should be parked at 90 degrees (or as close as feasibly possible without blocking on-coming traffic) to the curb at all times, regardless of location." Thanks, Tom Ohs ----- Original Message ---- From: Jim Graham To: Tom Ohs Cc: "Terry, Billy (DDOT)"; "Whalen, Charles (DDOT)"; "Simpson, Greg (DMV)"; "Babers, Lucinda (DMV)"; "Harvey, Damon (DDOT)"; "Kass, Jonathon (COUNCIL)" Subject: RE: Parking regulations involving Motorcycles Please restate your specific questions, and we will obtain the answers. Bests Jim ------------------------------ *From:* Babers, Lucinda (DMV) *Sent:* Monday, September 08, 2008 7:51 PM *To:* Tom Ohs; Harvey, Damon (DDOT); Kass, Jonathon (COUNCIL); Jim Graham *Cc:* Terry, Billy (DDOT); Whalen, Charles (DDOT); Simpson, Greg (DMV) *Subject:* RE: Parking regulations involving Motorcycles Mr Ohs, Sorry for the confusion. In the District, parking is regulated by DDOT (through laws passed by the Council), enforced by DPW (and law enforcement) and adjudicated by DMV. Therefore, different portions of Title 18 are applicable to each of these agencies depending on the functionality. The DMV website contains the main portions of Title 18 which impact our operations; however, often times, a chapter within Title 18 are actually applicable to multiple agencies. This is due to DDOT, DPW and DMV being one huge agency several years ago; basically governed by one main piece of legislation=85Title 18. However, when you comment on parking regulations, i.e., in terms of addendums/modifications/etc, then that's a DDOT function (through the Mayor). Of course, the Council can always introduce and pass laws. I'm sure either DDOT or the Council can provide you with additional information in terms of your request for guidance on changing parking regulations. Thanks! lucinda ** _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) From: Julian Halton To: DCCycles Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 09:19:42 -0400 Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US acceptlanguage: en-US X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.9 Subject: [dc-cycles] My first collision - a true story Monday 5:30 PM Arizona Blvd heading North to Loughboro Road in NorthWest DC I am on my 2006 R6 driving normally. I pass a speed trap on Canal Road. No problems there. I make the right onto Arizona and stop at the intersection of McArthur. Lots of trees, nice neighborhood. Speed limit is 35. Arizona is a wide sweeping road that almost feels like it could be two lanes. I am accelerating up the hill.....behind two cars..I would say between 30' and 40' feet behind. The car in front comes to a complete stop with no signal. The car behind slows. I (legally allowed) move to the right and roll on the gas to pass the two cars the first making a left turn. The second car suddenly swerves into my passing line. No problem. The car accelerates I accelerate. Car 2 slams on the brakes right beside the left turning car. Suddenly I am right there. I brake and brake hard. (front brake only). The steering goes mushy and I realize I am moments away from striking the rear right corner of car number 2. Do I stand the bike straight and take it head on or do I slide the bike putting the bike between the car and me. I choose option number two. Down we go and I am worried about my head striking the car. The bike makes light contact I feel pain and I am down and stopped. People are honking and trying to drive around. I get to my feet and check my helmet. I turn the bike off and stand there ...a little dazed. A police vehicle going the opposite way stops and an officer approaches. I try to lift my bike and cannot. The officer lays a flare and informs me she is calling for back up. Moments later a grizzled ivory haired officer arrives and starts asking for 'my story'. No one asks if I am okay despite the fact the right side of my Field Sheer mesh jacket is shredded on the shoulder and I am clearly in pain. He interrupts to say.....'got it ..so you struck the vehicle from behind'. I mention that there were two cars there and he argues that I am not telling the truth as it is a one way. Exasperated, I direct him to discuss it with the two ladies driving the cars that blocked me. Minutes pass, he returns..tells me what happened which was what I wrote about one car stopping and the other deciding to go around and come to a complete stop. I am at fault...failure to control my vehicle. The lady in car two sees negligible damage to her vehicle and does not want an accident report. Office Silver Hair tells me if I can drive away he won't write a report or cite me. Shaking, we lift the bike up and I manage to get it turned around and started. It was probably the worst ride ever getting back to my office. The damage: Bike: can, front brake, bar end, front and right side plastics, rear plastic...a piece detached from whence I cannot determine. Clothes: shredded right side arm and shoulder of jacket; rip in jeans and an exploded cell phone which probably prevented my leg from scraping. Right Held racing glove abraded. Me. Slight sprain right thumb, hurts to move right arm, shoulder in pain, no apparent rotator cuff damage, slight abrasion on knee, hurts to inhale really hard. I may go to the doctor today. I realize that I was deep in thought about a work related problem and was planning out a discussion I needed to have at my second job. I thought I had a safe following distance as I never get 'close' to anyone's rear. Evidently my inability to stop shows this not to be true. The second driver and I did exchange information. She was actually apologetic. after deciding to go around the first car, she decided to slam on the brakes to give the driver of the first car a piece of mind. She got a piece of R6 instead. Lessons for me. 1) When riding, think about riding. period 2) re-learn safe following distance Thanks to my track habit I was under the illusion I could make lower speed stops on a dime. Julian _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 12:57:26 -0400 From: "Mike B." To: Julian Halton Cc: DCCycles Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] My first collision - a true story Julian Halton wrote: > The car in front comes to a complete stop with no signal. The car behind slows. I (legally allowed) move to the right and roll on the gas to pass the two cars the first making a left turn.1 First, I'm glad you survived, and I'm sorry you were injured. I hope you heal well and soon, and that you can get your bike fixed before the nice weather is done. Second, you are incorrect about passing two stopped cars, with the first one making a turn, in that manner being legal. It isn't legal, and you've discovered why that is. You were also probably following too closely...in fact if not in law. *Minimum* safe following distance is 2 seconds behind. 35 mph is just over 51 ft/sec, so *minimum* safe distance at 35 mph is a bit over 100' (about 5 1960's car lengths). This distance is for average situations, where the two vehicles have about the same stopping power, the driver of the following vehicle is paying attention, there are no adverse conditions (fog, wet road, fatigue, etc.) that will slow reaction time or increase stopping distance. Being closer than 2 seconds behind makes it a lot more likely that you will leave a spot on the seat in an emergency, or even have a collision. Being farther back tends to make things much less exciting in such situations. A lot of people think that bikes can stop faster than cars, because they are lighter and some bikes have very good brakes. I don't know if they are right or wrong, but I do consider that contact-patch area per weight may go to the car, and the car doesn't have to worry about falling over if it loses traction, and frequently has ABS too. Bike advantage is mostly that we don't need a lot of space to go past, rather than stopping, but I can attest that even that doesn't always help in some situations where there is nowhere to go. -- Mike B. -- '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) X-YMail-OSG: PkBOwJgVM1nlH2brcA2P3RNYx6d1CFaao2i2vYrrNYk4B.eTTGT6hU2xkMscbBjedeDnbE9DPCPMZCDmP0wahSng8JdukfDGoIR3xjN3nhEvf5WbdUEkhZA4BCKwXBkPXntNRG.lNz9CvPqCZGmMxHDSKzY5PvgRh40oNFYSpDNicY0TVA4- Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 10:54:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Adam Reinhardt To: DCCycles Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] My first collision - a true story I=A0remember about 10 years ago Road and Track did a 0mph-100mph-0mph test,= bringing out all of the fastest cars of the late 90s (Viper, Corvette, Por= sche Turbo, etc) and=A0throwing in=A0Kawasaki ZX-9 as well. The ZX-9 was much, much quicker, both in acceleration and braking.=A0 Of co= urse, following Mike's point, not everyone can threshold brake from 100mph = on a sportbike.=A0 = - Adam = =A0 ----- Original Message ---- From: Mike B. To: Julian Halton Cc: DCCycles Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] My first collision - a true story Julian Halton wrote: >=A0 The car in front comes to a complete stop with no signal.=A0 The car = behind slows. I (legally allowed) move to the right and roll on the gas = to pass the two cars the first making a left turn.1 First, I'm glad you survived, and I'm sorry you were injured.=A0 I hope = you heal well and soon, and that you can get your bike fixed before the = nice weather is done. Second, you are incorrect about passing two stopped cars, with the first = one making a turn, in that manner being legal.=A0 It isn't legal, and = you've discovered why that is. You were also probably following too closely...in fact if not in law. *Minimum* safe following distance is 2 seconds behind.=A0 35 mph is just = over 51 ft/sec, so *minimum* safe distance at 35 mph is a bit over 100' = (about 5 1960's car lengths).=A0 This distance is for average situations, = where the two vehicles have about the same stopping power, the driver of = the following vehicle is paying attention, there are no adverse = conditions (fog, wet road, fatigue, etc.) that will slow reaction time = or increase stopping distance.=A0 Being closer than 2 seconds behind makes = it a lot more likely that you will leave a spot on the seat in an = emergency, or even have a collision.=A0 Being farther back tends to make = things much less exciting in such situations. A lot of people think that bikes can stop faster than cars, because they = are lighter and some bikes have very good brakes.=A0 I don't know if they = are right or wrong, but I do consider that contact-patch area per weight = may go to the car, and the car doesn't have to worry about falling over = if it loses traction, and frequently has ABS too.=A0 Bike advantage is = mostly that we don't need a lot of space to go past, rather than = stopping, but I can attest that even that doesn't always help in some = situations where there is nowhere to go. -- Mike B. -- = '04 FLSTCI=A0 (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley fol= ks) Learning from your mistakes is good.=A0 Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles = _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) From: Julian Halton To: "'Adam Reinhardt'" , DCCycles Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 13:56:07 -0400 Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US acceptlanguage: en-US Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] My first collision - a true story I am comfortable braking hard. I did not feel the rear wheel lift so that = makes me think perhaps I could have braked harder. I also did not use the rear brake at all...unfortunately a habit from how I= ride on the track. According to x-rays no bone damage !!!!! Julian Halton Group Logic julian@XXXXXX 703-778-8405 -----Original Message----- From: dc-cycles-bounces@XXXXXX [mailto:dc-cycles-bounces@XXXXXX= ] On Behalf Of Adam Reinhardt To: DCCycles Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] My first collision - a true story I remember about 10 years ago Road and Track did a 0mph-100mph-0mph test, b= ringing out all of the fastest cars of the late 90s (Viper, Corvette, Porsc= he Turbo, etc) and throwing in Kawasaki ZX-9 as well. The ZX-9 was much, much quicker, both in acceleration and braking. Of cour= se, following Mike's point, not everyone can threshold brake from 100mph on= a sportbike. - Adam ----- Original Message ---- From: Mike B. To: Julian Halton Cc: DCCycles Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] My first collision - a true story Julian Halton wrote: >=A0 The car in front comes to a complete stop with no signal. The car behind slows. I (legally allowed) move to the right and roll on the gas to = pass the two cars the first making a left turn.1 First, I'm glad you survived, and I'm sorry you were injured. I hope you h= eal well and soon, and that you can get your bike fixed before the nice wea= ther is done. Second, you are incorrect about passing two stopped cars, with the first on= e making a turn, in that manner being legal. It isn't legal, and you've di= scovered why that is. You were also probably following too closely...in fact if not in law. *Minimum* safe following distance is 2 seconds behind. 35 mph is just over= 51 ft/sec, so *minimum* safe distance at 35 mph is a bit over 100' (about 5 1960's car lengths). This distance is for average situations, whe= re the two vehicles have about the same stopping power, the driver of the f= ollowing vehicle is paying attention, there are no adverse conditions (fog,= wet road, fatigue, etc.) that will slow reaction time or increase stopping= distance. Being closer than 2 seconds behind makes it a lot more likely t= hat you will leave a spot on the seat in an emergency, or even have a colli= sion. Being farther back tends to make things much less exciting in such s= ituations. A lot of people think that bikes can stop faster than cars, because they ar= e lighter and some bikes have very good brakes. I don't know if they are r= ight or wrong, but I do consider that contact-patch area per weight may go = to the car, and the car doesn't have to worry about falling over if it lose= s traction, and frequently has ABS too. Bike advantage is mostly that we d= on't need a lot of space to go past, rather than stopping, but I can attest= that even that doesn't always help in some situations where there is nowhe= re to go. -- Mike B. -- '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes= is better. _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 14:04:30 -0400 From: "smthng else" To: DCCycles Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] My first collision - a true story On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 1:54 PM, Adam Reinhardt wrote: > I remember about 10 years ago Road and Track did a 0mph-100mph-0mph test, bringing out all of the fastest cars of the late 90s (Viper, Corvette, Porsche Turbo, etc) and throwing in Kawasaki ZX-9 as well. Maybe ABS wasn't quite as prevalent 10 years ago... I've seen several shows (most recently Top Gear) where cars have been able to outbrake top end motorcycles by quite a bit. The rider wasn't the limiting factor... the guy in Top Gear was an English MotoGP racer, but I don't remember his name right now. Someone who can clearly brake better than I. ;) --Jonathan "smthng" Kalmes Springfield, VA 2005 Yamaha FJR1300ABS - "Blue Bayou" 2006 Jeep Unlimited Rubicon - "Teflon" 2008 Kawasaki KLR 650 - It's here, but it hasn't earned a name yet. ;) http://smthng.info "Shake well... some settling is natural." _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 14:38:53 -0400 From: "Wayne Edelen" To: DCCycles Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] My first collision - a true story On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 12:57 PM, Mike B. wrote: > > Second, you are incorrect about passing two stopped cars, with the first > one making a turn, in that manner being legal. It isn't legal, and > you've discovered why that is. I'm pretty sure that passing a left turning car is not legal here in MD, unless there is another full lane you can occupy to pass them. You can not cross the white line or drive on the shoulder to pass someone who is stopped and turning. > > You were also probably following too closely...in fact if not in law. > I don't think that has any bearing on the collision. He made a bad decision to pass the cars and the cager decided to occupy his space after he'd committed to the pass. > A lot of people think that bikes can stop faster than cars, because they > are lighter and some bikes have very good brakes. I don't know if they > are right or wrong, but I do consider that contact-patch area per weight > may go to the car, and the car doesn't have to worry about falling over > if it loses traction, and frequently has ABS too. Bike advantage is > mostly that we don't need a lot of space to go past, rather than > stopping, but I can attest that even that doesn't always help in some > situations where there is nowhere to go. I don't know about the average car, but newer sportscars will easily outbrake newer sportbikes. You can take an expert on a bike and an idiot in a car and you'd get the same results. Anti lock braking, sticky tires, big multipiston brakes, stability control and excellent suspensions allow cars to drop anchor. Also, you're not going to do a stoppie, lowside or highside in a car :-) Most people never practice threshold braking on their 2 wheeler, so their skills are generally pretty poor when they're called upon in emergency situations. -- Wayne _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) From: Julian Halton To: "'Wayne Edelen'" , DCCycles Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 14:40:22 -0400 Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US acceptlanguage: en-US Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] My first collision - a true story That's what the officer said and so did not cite car driver for anything illegal. Julian Halton Group Logic julian@XXXXXX 703-778-8405 -----Original Message----- From: dc-cycles-bounces@XXXXXX [mailto:dc-cycles-bounces@XXXXXX] On Behalf Of Wayne Edelen To: DCCycles Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] My first collision - a true story On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 12:57 PM, Mike B. wrote: > > Second, you are incorrect about passing two stopped cars, with the > first one making a turn, in that manner being legal. It isn't legal, > and you've discovered why that is. I'm pretty sure that passing a left turning car is not legal here in MD, unless there is another full lane you can occupy to pass them. You can not cross the white line or drive on the shoulder to pass someone who is stopped and turning. > > You were also probably following too closely...in fact if not in law. > I don't think that has any bearing on the collision. He made a bad decision to pass the cars and the cager decided to occupy his space after he'd committed to the pass. > A lot of people think that bikes can stop faster than cars, because > they are lighter and some bikes have very good brakes. I don't know > if they are right or wrong, but I do consider that contact-patch area > per weight may go to the car, and the car doesn't have to worry about > falling over if it loses traction, and frequently has ABS too. Bike > advantage is mostly that we don't need a lot of space to go past, > rather than stopping, but I can attest that even that doesn't always > help in some situations where there is nowhere to go. I don't know about the average car, but newer sportscars will easily outbrake newer sportbikes. You can take an expert on a bike and an idiot in a car and you'd get the same results. Anti lock braking, sticky tires, big multipiston brakes, stability control and excellent suspensions allow cars to drop anchor. Also, you're not going to do a stoppie, lowside or highside in a car :-) Most people never practice threshold braking on their 2 wheeler, so their skills are generally pretty poor when they're called upon in emergency situations. -- Wayne _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) From: "Chris Norloff" To: "'DCCycles'" Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 15:07:50 -0400 Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] My first collision - a true story A bike outbraking cars like that? They put so much rubber on the road, I find that doubtful. A bike may have been the fastest at 0 to 100 to 0 mph, but the bike has a big advantage on the acceleration side of that test. Motorcyclist magazine also did a test some years ago and many cars outbraked bikes. Worse yet, any car with AntiLock Brakes could outbrake the best bike with the best rider. Do you have a reference for that Road & Track article? Julian - glad you're basically okay. best, Chris = -----Original Message----- From: dc-cycles-bounces@XXXXXX [mailto:dc-cycles-bounces@XXXXXX] On Behalf Of Adam Reinhardt To: DCCycles Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] My first collision - a true story I=A0remember about 10 years ago Road and Track did a 0mph-100mph-0mph test, bringing out all of the fastest cars of the late 90s (Viper, Corvette, Porsche Turbo, etc) and=A0throwing in=A0Kawasaki ZX-9 as well. The ZX-9 was much, much quicker, both in acceleration and braking.=A0 Of course, following Mike's point, not everyone can threshold brake from 100mph on a sportbike.=A0 = - Adam = =A0 ----- Original Message ---- From: Mike B. To: Julian Halton Cc: DCCycles Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] My first collision - a true story Julian Halton wrote: >=A0 The car in front comes to a complete stop with no signal.=A0 The car behind slows. I (legally allowed) move to the right and roll on the gas to pass the two cars the first making a left turn.1 First, I'm glad you survived, and I'm sorry you were injured.=A0 I hope you heal well and soon, and that you can get your bike fixed before the nice weather is done. Second, you are incorrect about passing two stopped cars, with the first one making a turn, in that manner being legal.=A0 It isn't legal, and you've discovered why that is. You were also probably following too closely...in fact if not in law. *Minimum* safe following distance is 2 seconds behind.=A0 35 mph is just ov= er 51 ft/sec, so *minimum* safe distance at 35 mph is a bit over 100' = (about 5 1960's car lengths).=A0 This distance is for average situations, where the two vehicles have about the same stopping power, the driver of the following vehicle is paying attention, there are no adverse conditions (fog, wet road, fatigue, etc.) that will slow reaction time or increase stopping distance.=A0 Being closer than 2 seconds behind makes it a lot more likely that you will leave a spot on the seat in an emergency, or even have a collision.=A0 Being farther back tends to make things much less exciting in such situations. A lot of people think that bikes can stop faster than cars, because they are lighter and some bikes have very good brakes.=A0 I don't know if they are right or wrong, but I do consider that contact-patch area per weight may go to the car, and the car doesn't have to worry about falling over if it loses traction, and frequently has ABS too.=A0 Bike advantage is mostly that we don't need a lot of space to go past, rather than stopping, but I can attest that even that doesn't always help in some situations where there is nowhere to go. -- Mike B. -- = '04 FLSTCI=A0 (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley fol= ks) Learning from your mistakes is good.=A0 Learning from someone else's mistak= es is better. _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles = _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 15:28:31 -0400 From: "Michael Jordan" To: "Chris Norloff" Cc: DCCycles Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] My first collision - a true story > Do you have a reference for that Road & Track article? I remember the article well - IIRC, it was a new ZX9, and the bike did 0 - 100 - 0 before the quickest car (Cobra, again IIRC) got to 100. Somewhere around '94 -- Michael J. '86 SRX-6 '93 GSX1100G '03 DL1000 AMA IBA #3901 USAF (Ret) NRA etc. _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) From: "Travis" Cc: "DCCycles" Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 15:51:49 -0400 X-ELNK-Trace: ffaa36cdf5662c91f2b4904e00fba43a239a348a220c2609786900b05a9e319fb59616c29dd76efe666fa475841a1c7a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] My first collision - a true story >> Do you have a reference for that Road & Track article? Here http://www.fileupyours.com/view/191254/R%26T0-100-0.zip Travis _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 16:13:12 -0400 From: "Mike B." To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] My first collision - a true story Wayne Edelen wrote: > On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 12:57 PM, Mike B. wrote: >> Second, you are incorrect about passing two stopped cars, with the first >> one making a turn, in that manner being legal. It isn't legal, and >> you've discovered why that is. > = > = > I'm pretty sure that passing a left turning car is not legal here in > MD, unless there is another full lane you can occupy to pass them. > You can not cross the white line or drive on the shoulder to pass > someone who is stopped and turning. I don't know that there has to be another lane...but there has to be = room for one...and you definitely can't pass the car stopped behind the = one that's turning. http://mlis.state.md.us/asp/web_statutes.asp?gtr&21-304 says: =A721=96304. (a) Subject to the requirements of subsection (b) of this section, the = driver of a vehicle may overtake and pass to the right of another = vehicle only: (1) If the overtaken vehicle is making or about to make a left turn; (2) On a highway with unobstructed pavement not occupied by parked = vehicles and wide enough for two or more lines of vehicles moving = lawfully in the same direction as the overtaking vehicle; or (3) On any one-way roadway, if the roadway is free from obstruction = and wide enough for two or more lines of moving vehicles. (b) The driver of a vehicle may overtake and pass another vehicle to = the right only if it is safe to do so. (c) The movement described under subsection (b) of this section may = not be made by driving off the roadway. Check the link...the formatting didn't carry over here. The three = numbered items are together and indented under (a), so all must be true = for (a) to be valid. That's where the restriction on passing more than = the left-turning vehicle comes in. I've seen more than one near-accident from people ignoring this. A car = stops to turn left on a two-lane road, two or more cars stop behind it, = then the third or more guy back decides he can't wait, and pulls around = to the right (sometimes using the shoulder, sometimes "sharing" a wide = lane)...just as one of the guys in front of him makes the same decision = and pulls out into him, or just in front of him. Haven't seen an actual = hit so far, but I've seen some that were really close and required = stomping brakes hard enough to squeal tires to avoid the collision. I've decided that I'm not in that much of a hurry...everybody has to be = somewhere, and waiting behind is as good as most places, and far better = than being on the shoulder exchanging information and estimating repair = costs. >> You were also probably following too closely...in fact if not in law. > = > I don't think that has any bearing on the collision. He made a bad > decision to pass the cars and the cager decided to occupy his space > after he'd committed to the pass. Agreed, but 40' at 35 mph is still too close. I think that part was = before the stop happened anyway. > suspensions allow cars to drop anchor. Also, you're not going to do a > stoppie, lowside or highside in a car :-) If you can do a stoppie in a car, you can be this week's YouTube = special! ;-) > Most people never practice threshold braking on their 2 wheeler, so > their skills are generally pretty poor when they're called upon in > emergency situations. Best place to learn that stuff is on a dirt bike if you ask me. They = are lighter, cheaper, more durable and off-road usually means lower = speeds, no traffic and softer ground. Learning what it's like when both = wheels lock up, or the rear breaks loose and tries to pass you, how your = weight matters, etc. is valuable and transfers to a large extent to = street riding when braking hard, or exceeding traction in a turn or = whatever. My first bike was an '83 Yamaha XT-550, which was street legal, but had = plastic fenders, signals on rubber flexi-mounts, bars with bracing, = knobby tires and only weighed 315 lbs fully fueled. Low top end, but = lots of torque, so it accelerated well (the 550 ccs was all in one = cylinder ;-). When the Harley slipped a bit coming off of White's Ferry = on the VA side (uphill, turn to the right, on a wet steel ramp...) it = all suddenly came back, and I wasn't bothered by it. Some of the folks = I was with, who'd never ridden anything else, were a bit more upset when = their bikes got squirrelly for a second...though nobody went down. More = of a comfort level thing. -- Mike B. _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 16:33:15 -0400 From: "Wayne Edelen" To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] My first collision - a true story On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 4:13 PM, Mike B. wrote: > > I don't know that there has to be another lane...but there has to be > room for one...and you definitely can't pass the car stopped behind the > one that's turning. > > http://mlis.state.md.us/asp/web_statutes.asp?gtr&21-304 says: Good info. Thanks. I wonder how they interpret the following... > (2) On a highway with unobstructed pavement not occupied by parked > vehicles and wide enough for two or more lines of vehicles moving > lawfully in the same direction as the overtaking vehicle; or > (3) On any one-way roadway, if the roadway is free from obstruction > and wide enough for two or more lines of moving vehicles. "... wide enough for two or more lines of vehicles moving lawfully in the same direction as the overtaking ..." Does that apply to a lane that's wide enough for a car and a motorcycle to be traveling in the same direction? > If you can do a stoppie in a car, you can be this week's YouTube > special! ;-) I've hoisted the front wheels in my cars, but no stoppies :-D > Best place to learn that stuff is on a dirt bike if you ask me. They > are lighter, cheaper, more durable and off-road usually means lower > speeds, no traffic and softer ground. Learning what it's like when both > wheels lock up, or the rear breaks loose and tries to pass you, how your > weight matters, etc. is valuable and transfers to a large extent to > street riding when braking hard, or exceeding traction in a turn or > whatever. Track days are another good place for learning, where lots of the skills transfer over to your everyday riding. -- Wayne _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 16:38:00 -0400 From: "Paul Wilson" To: omni@XXXXXX Cc: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] My first collision - a true story Except, this happened in the District, so the Code of Maryland matters not one whit. 18 DCMR 2202.5 addresses Julian's situation. Overtaking on the right (when the overtaken vehicle is turning left) is permitted when a travel portion of sufficient width is present, whether it is marked as two lanes or not. Specifically the code says: "On a street or highway with unobstructed pavement not occupied by parked vehicles and of sufficient width for two (2) or more lanes of moving vehicles in each direction." On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 4:13 PM, Mike B. wrote: > Wayne Edelen wrote: >> On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 12:57 PM, Mike B. wrote: >>> Second, you are incorrect about passing two stopped cars, with the first >>> one making a turn, in that manner being legal. It isn't legal, and >>> you've discovered why that is. .... _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 16:40:26 -0400 From: "Wayne Edelen" To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] My first collision - a true story On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 4:38 PM, Paul Wilson wrote: > Except, this happened in the District, so the Code of Maryland matters > not one whit. > > 18 DCMR 2202.5 addresses Julian's situation. Overtaking on the right > (when the overtaken vehicle is turning left) is permitted when a > travel portion of sufficient width is present, whether it is marked as > two lanes or not. > > Specifically the code says: > > "On a street or highway with unobstructed pavement not occupied by > parked vehicles and of sufficient width for two (2) or more lanes of > moving vehicles in each direction." > > Which is essentially what the MD law says - you can pass a vehicle on the right if it's turning left. But he attempted to pass a vehicle stopped behind a vehicle turning left. That's where he got in trouble. -- Wayne _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 16:47:37 -0400 From: "Mike B." To: Wayne Edelen Cc: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] My first collision - a true story Wayne Edelen wrote: > "... wide enough for two or more lines of vehicles moving lawfully in > the same direction as the overtaking ..." > > Does that apply to a lane that's wide enough for a car and a > motorcycle to be traveling in the same direction? That's a good question. Not sure if there's "case law" for traffic court, or where you'd find it if there is. This may be where traffic lawyers start to earn their money a bit. -- Mike B. -- '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) From: Julian Halton To: DC-Cycles Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 16:45:57 -0400 Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US acceptlanguage: en-US Subject: [dc-cycles] On a happier note.....me working the track at Summit Main Last Monday http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3193/2860466334_1483d1d716.jpg?v=0 _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 17:32:19 -0400 From: "Danny Motorcycle" To: Tom X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.9 Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] DC Parking You rock. May we all follow in your footsteps. _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) From: "Travis" To: "Michael Jordan" Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 17:43:30 -0400 X-ELNK-Trace: ffaa36cdf5662c91f2b4904e00fba43a239a348a220c2609943dc6d00244b67debe04518dbb386bb387f7b89c61deb1d350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] My first collision - a true story This link should work. I actually tested this one. http://www.fileupyours.com/view/191254/0-100-0.zip ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Jordan" To: "Travis" Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] My first collision - a true story > Link doesn't seem to work - returns a "File Not Found" form the > fileupyours server. > > > On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 3:51 PM, Travis wrote: >> >> >> >>>> Do you have a reference for that Road & Track article? >> >> Here http://www.fileupyours.com/view/191254/R%26T0-100-0.zip >> >> Travis >> _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 18:10:27 -0400 From: "Mike B." To: Paul Wilson Cc: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] My first collision - a true story Paul Wilson wrote: > Except, this happened in the District, so the Code of Maryland matters > not one whit. Except for two things...what you listed for the District is pretty much exactly the same as the MD law, and Julian wasn't passing a vehicle that was turning left...he was passing a vehicle turning left AND one that wasn't. It's that second vehicle that makes it illegal...in both the District and MD (and VA as far as I remember unless they've changed things in the last 35 years). -- Mike B. -- '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 18:13:40 -0400 From: "Danny Motorcycle" To: Travis X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.9 Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] My first collision - a true story Same type of crash happened to a friend of mine on U street (and 14th I believe). Except there was another lane, car #2 bumped the bike causing him to lose control, and he then struck a taxi cab stopped in the crosswalk on the other side of the intersection. Cop put biker at fault. Seems to me that if he struck him on the side and in another marked lane, he is at fault. (for that particular accident). I as a rule slow down any time a vehicle is stopped or slowing. My spidey sense goes off. You never know when a dc driver is going to do something unpredictable, but when they start to do something other than go with the flow, it seems like a good indication they may do something stupid and unusual, because they're already doing something unsual. (hell they would even do dumbshit even when going with the flow) So i'm sure i'll have another fender date; eIther someone will do something real stupid, or as cautious as i try to be, i'm sure there will be one dumb time when i'm not thinking and decide to risk it and bam. Hopefully I won't be at fault, but more importantly hopefully it will be a good recoverable crash. So Hey it's a good crash, no broken bones, you're alive, you can walk, no missing digits etc. Good crash. (and it's not keeping you from earning income), my advice would be to be happy about it :) - Danny _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 18:20:32 -0400 From: "Danny Motorcycle" To: Travis X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.9 Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] My first collision - a true story re the braking, When i first started riding, one of the first things I did was to go somewhere that was isolated and practice emergency braking.. to a stop.. and then pulling off too to get the hell out of the way. . A few years later I wanted to be cool and do stunts, so I learned to do endos and rolling endos. I like to ride fast, and we've all had our "uh oh" brake hard moments before a turn, but I don't think braking hard to scrub off speed before you dive is good enough to compare to emergency braking to what may be needed as a STOP. Scrubbing off speed is good, but EMERGENCY STOPPING is a little bit more work, as you're not just letting go of the brake and keep riding.. The rear wheel gets up there in the air and then you modulate a little release of pressure to stop from flipping and you still apply more brakes because you need to. Personally I also think it helps to push the knees together and keep the bike straight in such a circumstance. I would agree with you, if you had the time to chose to slide, and your wheel didt' come up, you probably could have braked harder. Still who knows if you would've stopped in time, probably you alone :) I think most of the ties iv'e braked hard, I followed it with a hard swerve. The bad part is though, this time of year, who's to know if the ground will be so cold that your braking hard might just through you down at that moment. I haven't practiced emergency braking in a good long time, I think i will real soon, like the next time I ride.. like tonight. _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) X-YMail-OSG: rQvZj0kVM1kelBSa94MjYLJKo4Rp2h9T84MjU3hlyZ526gMQiupctid3NWgfwaya2vkPx6F1H9Rde9ajTIAXN7uS8L3a4mWwNg962V2c_oGUsHdPor3BUK5G0veZJI1ifv90AhEnINOXboiOEZ43B9crksDhT0qRKn8xK1_isX2xf0g0YVI- Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 15:43:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Adam Reinhardt To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] My first collision - a true story My memory is not as bad as I thought!=A0 The ZX-9 brakes from 100-0 in 4.3 = seconds, which puts it ahead of the best braking car (granted, from 1994) w= hich was the Porsche 911 Turbo at 4.7 seconds.=A0 Thank you Travis for posting the article; certainly one of the more memorab= le ones from R&T.=A0 One interesting point was that of the initial transiti= on to braking being faster on a bike since the extension of the right hand'= s fingers is much more rapid than the switch of the feet on the pedals. = Adam = =A0 ----- Original Message ---- From: Travis To: Michael Jordan Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] My first collision - a true story This link should work.=A0 I actually tested this one. = http://www.fileupyours.com/view/191254/0-100-0.zip ----- Original Message ----- = From: "Michael Jordan" To: "Travis" Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] My first collision - a true story > Link doesn't seem to work - returns a "File Not Found" form the > fileupyours server. > = > = > On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 3:51 PM, Travis wrote: >> >> >> >>>> Do you have a reference for that Road & Track article? >> >> Here http://www.fileupyours.com/view/191254/R%26T0-100-0.zip >> >> Travis >> _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles = _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) X-rim-org-msg-ref-id: 329366578 To: "List DC Cycles" From: dcmcrider@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 22:45:42 +0000 Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] My first collision - a true story Mike, if you're going to pontificate (not to mention pontificate at excessive length), you might as well take the extra few minutes look up the letter of the law in the proper jurisdiction. You lucked out this time. It might have said something radically different and you had no way of knowing that. It's not hard. Go to http://os.dc.gov for both the DCMR and DC Code. P ------Original Message------ From: Mike B. To: Paul Wilson Cc: List DC Cycles ReplyTo: omni@XXXXXX Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] My first collision - a true story Paul Wilson wrote: > Except, this happened in the District, so the Code of Maryland matters > not one whit. Except for two things...what you listed for the District is pretty much exactly the same as the MD law, and Julian wasn't passing a vehicle that was turning left...he was passing a vehicle turning left AND one that wasn't. It's that second vehicle that makes it illegal...in both the District and MD (and VA as far as I remember unless they've changed things in the last 35 years). -- Mike B. -- '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles