From: dc-cycles-digest-request@XXXXXX (The dc-cycles list administrator) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: dc-cycles digest for 08/25/08 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ __ /-----\ __ 'dc-cycles' is an unmoderated email discussion list (__\/ _____ \/__) about motorcycling in the Washington D.C. area. =( \___/ )= \ ___ / An archive of the dc-cycles list is available at: | / _ \ | http://www.dc-cycles.org/ \ || || / \|| ||/ Subscribe/unsubscribe requests should be sent to: \| |/ dc-cycles-digest-request@XXXXXX |_| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 20:39:54 -0400 From: Jeff To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 080823-0, 08/23/2008), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Junkmail-Whitelist: YES (by domain whitelist at mr02.lnh.mail.rcn.net) Subject: [dc-cycles] Parking Near Silver Spring Metro? I don't know if their M-cycle spaces are free or not, but there is a county public parking garage 1-2 blocks west (assuming Rt. 29 runs north/south) of the SS metro. It's up at the top of the hill on 2nd ave and Cameron St. thee is also another garage about a block south, between Wayne Ave and Bonifant street. Jeff Silver Spring 04 XL1200 Roadster 79 XS650 Tracker > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 20:06:42 -0400 > From: "Thomas J. Fitzpatrick III" > Subject: [dc-cycles] Parking Near Silver Spring Metro? > To: > Message-ID: <020a01c9057d$49b63aa0$e0f5724c@CELTICKING> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hey all, > > > > I just started a new job that in 3 weeks will be located within one block of > the Silver Spring Metro. I live in Woodbridge, and I am thinking about > commuting by bike. > > > > Any info on parking in that immediate vicinity would be greatly appreciated. > I am interested in both free motorcycle parking and the cheapest cage > parking for those days when I need to drive. > > > > And, yes, I have left the MFI. It was fun, but I was offered a great > opportunity as a Financial Manager for a Defense Center of Excellence. > Great mission and people, and, well, it's what I do. > > > > Thanks! > > Tom > > > > Tom Fitzpatrick > > Celtic Racing #806 > > _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) X-PGP-Universal: processed; by Marvin.HOME.INT on Mon, 25 Aug 2008 01:24:20 -0400 From: "David A. Koran" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 01:24:01 -0400 Subject: [dc-cycles] Can anybody explain Mont. Co's 47-06 Ordinance change? Hi, Map guy again. So I was researching parking, because that's what I do = on a caffeine high at 12am on a Sunday... :-) And while reviewing the parking at Montgomery County facilities, I saw = they passed an "expedited" change to the parking laws in the county. = Now, from what I read, it sort of helps MC riders, but the language, = in legalese, doesn't make a lot of sense... Original DOC: http://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/content/council/pdf/SCANNED= _DOCS/47-06.pdf The two passages of interest are (I love my Mac and the PDF OCR = feature): 31-26. [Parking regulations -] Public parking facilities. Except temporarily for the purpose of and while actually engaged in = loading or unloading passengers or for emergency repairs when the = vehicle cannot be driven,[no] a person [shall] must not park any = vehicle on a public parking facility: (1) [[In]] in violation of an official sign[[.]] (2) [[In]] in a no-parking zone when posted by sign or indicated by = yellow painted curb or yellow painted lines on the parking surface, = except for a motorcycle where motorcycle parking is permitted is an = official sign[[=B7]] (3) [[In]] in any place that is not Idesignedl designated as a parking = space by painted lines, except for a motorcycle where motorcycle = parking is permitted by an official sign[[.]] So, the question is, can we park, well, anywhere? I never see a no = parking area for cars that says, "Motorcycles OK"... so is this a = useless law? I also updated the map some more, thanks for the contributions... if = anybody tries this on their GPS or smartphone, let me know how it = renders, I may be able to make it more portable for you all... David _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 11:51:41 -0400 From: "Danny Motorcycle" To: "David A. Koran" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.9 Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] Can anybody explain Mont. Co's 47-06 Ordinance change? " except for a motorcycle where motorcycle parking is permitted by an official sign" from the passage you quoted, it looks like they were unsimply trying to say "cars may not park outside of car spaces, and motorcycles may park outside of car space if it's a motorcycle designated parking area" _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 11:56:26 -0400 From: "Matthew Bafford" To: "Danny Motorcycle" Cc: "David A. Koran" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] Can anybody explain Mont. Co's 47-06 Ordinance change? Or, rather: "Motorcycles are NOT to park wherever they please, even if it the spaces they pick usually are truly wasted space that the parking authority has not bothered to deem motorcycle appropriate. Thus it is so decreed for it angers the car drivers to see the riders of two wheels being treated favorably by being allowed to park close to the doors when they the drivers of four wheels must undergo a long trek from the rearmost parking spaces." Or something like that. --Matthew On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 11:51 AM, Danny Motorcycle wrote: > " except for a motorcycle where motorcycle > parking is permitted by an official sign" > > > from the passage you quoted, it looks like they were unsimply trying to say > "cars may not park outside of car spaces, and motorcycles may park > outside of car space if it's a motorcycle designated parking area" > _______________________________________________ > dc-cycles mailing list > dc-cycles@XXXXXX > http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles > _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 13:14:52 -0400 From: skip CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] Can anybody explain Mont. Co's 47-06 Ordinance change? you mean I'm not supposed to park on the sidewalk? whenever I get questioned about it, I explain that it doesn't make sense for me to take up a whole parking space. and since people treat me as if I'm invisible and run me off of the road, I get to park on the sidewalk. :~) Matthew Bafford wrote: > Or, rather: > > "Motorcycles are NOT to park wherever they please, even if it the > spaces they pick usually are truly wasted space that the parking > authority has not bothered to deem motorcycle appropriate. Thus it is > so decreed for it angers the car drivers to see the riders of two > wheels being treated favorably by being allowed to park close to the > doors when they the drivers of four wheels must undergo a long trek > from the rearmost parking spaces." > > Or something like that. > > --Matthew > _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 13:45:35 -0400 From: skip To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] Can anybody explain Mont. Co's 47-06 Ordinance change? I don't think it'll work on a cop, though... skip wrote: > you mean I'm not supposed to park on the sidewalk? > > whenever I get questioned about it, I explain that it doesn't make sense > for me to take up a whole parking space. > > and since people treat me as if I'm invisible and run me off of the > road, I get to park on the sidewalk. > > :~) > > Matthew Bafford wrote: >> Or, rather: >> >> "Motorcycles are NOT to park wherever they please, even if it the >> spaces they pick usually are truly wasted space that the parking >> authority has not bothered to deem motorcycle appropriate. Thus it is >> so decreed for it angers the car drivers to see the riders of two >> wheels being treated favorably by being allowed to park close to the >> doors when they the drivers of four wheels must undergo a long trek >> from the rearmost parking spaces." >> >> Or something like that. >> >> --Matthew >> > > _______________________________________________ > dc-cycles mailing list > dc-cycles@XXXXXX > http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles > > _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 15:58:21 -0400 From: "Euan Fisk" To: skip Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] Can anybody explain Mont. Co's 47-06 Ordinance change? No, in DC it'll get you a $100 ticket. A friend who's a motorcycle courier just uses industrial velcro to hold his plate on and pops it off whenever he 'has to' park on sidewalks. If the police get really bent about it I suppose they could run his VIN, but unlikely most would go through the hassle. Still pretty stupid in my opinion since I think unplated vehicle are pretty much subject to immediate impound. On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 1:45 PM, skip wrote: > I don't think it'll work on a cop, though... > > skip wrote: >> you mean I'm not supposed to park on the sidewalk? >> >> whenever I get questioned about it, I explain that it doesn't make sense >> for me to take up a whole parking space. >> >> and since people treat me as if I'm invisible and run me off of the >> road, I get to park on the sidewalk. >> >> :~) >> >> Matthew Bafford wrote: >>> Or, rather: >>> >>> "Motorcycles are NOT to park wherever they please, even if it the >>> spaces they pick usually are truly wasted space that the parking >>> authority has not bothered to deem motorcycle appropriate. Thus it is >>> so decreed for it angers the car drivers to see the riders of two >>> wheels being treated favorably by being allowed to park close to the >>> doors when they the drivers of four wheels must undergo a long trek >>> from the rearmost parking spaces." >>> >>> Or something like that. >>> >>> --Matthew >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dc-cycles mailing list >> dc-cycles@XXXXXX >> http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles >> >> > _______________________________________________ > dc-cycles mailing list > dc-cycles@XXXXXX > http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles > _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 16:13:17 -0400 From: "Trevor Angel" To: "Euan Fisk" Cc: skip , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] Can anybody explain Mont. Co's 47-06 Ordinance change? I guess it might make a difference what part of DC you're in. Around Dupont I'm sure they'd nail you. A while back I asked a parking inspector about parking on the sidewalk. He said he'd give me a ticket. I pressed him about all the scooters I see parked on the sidewalk, and what was the difference? He said scooters were ok as long as they were 50cc or less. The logic defies me, same as the logic about not having to wear helmets on those things. The danger of an accident is the same as on a motorcycle (or more, given the completely unskilled operators) - and they take up about the same space on the sidewalk as most motorcycles would... But who said logic was a factor in these things? It's like the motorcycle parking spots just near hear. They used to be 4hr meters, 25c/hour. Ok, so $2/day to park, not so bad. There were a few regulars. Then they made it $1/hr - the same as a car, but 1/4 the space. The only advantage of parking a m/c there is you only have to feed the meter every 4 hours instead of every 2. Now nobody uses that space. Eventually they'll just convert to car spots and encourage more cars to come to town. Brilliant! Trevor On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 3:58 PM, Euan Fisk wrote: > No, in DC it'll get you a $100 ticket. A friend who's a motorcycle > courier just uses industrial velcro to hold his plate on and pops it > off whenever he 'has to' park on sidewalks. If the police get really > bent about it I suppose they could run his VIN, but unlikely most > would go through the hassle. Still pretty stupid in my opinion since > I think unplated vehicle are pretty much subject to immediate impound. > > On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 1:45 PM, skip wrote: >> I don't think it'll work on a cop, though... >> >> skip wrote: >>> you mean I'm not supposed to park on the sidewalk? >>> >>> whenever I get questioned about it, I explain that it doesn't make sense >>> for me to take up a whole parking space. >>> >>> and since people treat me as if I'm invisible and run me off of the >>> road, I get to park on the sidewalk. >>> >>> :~) >>> >>> Matthew Bafford wrote: >>>> Or, rather: >>>> >>>> "Motorcycles are NOT to park wherever they please, even if it the >>>> spaces they pick usually are truly wasted space that the parking >>>> authority has not bothered to deem motorcycle appropriate. Thus it is >>>> so decreed for it angers the car drivers to see the riders of two >>>> wheels being treated favorably by being allowed to park close to the >>>> doors when they the drivers of four wheels must undergo a long trek >>>> from the rearmost parking spaces." >>>> >>>> Or something like that. >>>> >>>> --Matthew >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> dc-cycles mailing list >>> dc-cycles@XXXXXX >>> http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> dc-cycles mailing list >> dc-cycles@XXXXXX >> http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles >> > _______________________________________________ > dc-cycles mailing list > dc-cycles@XXXXXX > http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles > _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 16:17:20 -0400 From: Mike Troutman To: DCCycles X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.7 Subject: [dc-cycles] KTM food for thought http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/08/ktms-240-horsep.html If I had to have a track day car.... -- ___________________________________ Mike Troutman mike@XXXXXX http://www.troutman.org/ _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) X-rim-org-msg-ref-id: 942727359 To: "Trevor Angel" , "Euan Fisk" From: dcmcrider@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 20:23:19 +0000 Cc: skip , List DC Cycles Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] Can anybody explain Mont. Co's 47-06 Ordinancechange? I agree, those finely-tuned distinctions don't make a lot of sense. Here's another one. In DC you park 20 feet closer to an intersection if you have a residential parking permit for that zone. This only makes sense at the level of crude political expediency, in other words well-trod ground for the DC Council. The whole reason for the parking restriction in the first place is to improve safety and visibility at intersections. In that case it doesn't matter what tags are on display--a vehicle parked there blocks the view and makes corners less safe. P Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: "Trevor Angel" Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 16:13:17 To: Euan Fisk Cc: skip; Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] Can anybody explain Mont. Co's 47-06 Ordinance change? I guess it might make a difference what part of DC you're in. Around Dupont I'm sure they'd nail you. A while back I asked a parking inspector about parking on the sidewalk. He said he'd give me a ticket. I pressed him about all the scooters I see parked on the sidewalk, and what was the difference? He said scooters were ok as long as they were 50cc or less. The logic defies me, same as the logic about not having to wear helmets on those things. The danger of an accident is the same as on a motorcycle (or more, given the completely unskilled operators) - and they take up about the same space on the sidewalk as most motorcycles would... But who said logic was a factor in these things? It's like the motorcycle parking spots just near hear. They used to be 4hr meters, 25c/hour. Ok, so $2/day to park, not so bad. There were a few regulars. Then they made it $1/hr - the same as a car, but 1/4 the space. The only advantage of parking a m/c there is you only have to feed the meter every 4 hours instead of every 2. Now nobody uses that space. Eventually they'll just convert to car spots and encourage more cars to come to town. Brilliant! Trevor On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 3:58 PM, Euan Fisk wrote: > No, in DC it'll get you a $100 ticket. A friend who's a motorcycle > courier just uses industrial velcro to hold his plate on and pops it > off whenever he 'has to' park on sidewalks. If the police get really > bent about it I suppose they could run his VIN, but unlikely most > would go through the hassle. Still pretty stupid in my opinion since > I think unplated vehicle are pretty much subject to immediate impound. > > On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 1:45 PM, skip wrote: >> I don't think it'll work on a cop, though... >> >> skip wrote: >>> you mean I'm not supposed to park on the sidewalk? >>> >>> whenever I get questioned about it, I explain that it doesn't make sense >>> for me to take up a whole parking space. >>> >>> and since people treat me as if I'm invisible and run me off of the >>> road, I get to park on the sidewalk. >>> >>> :~) >>> >>> Matthew Bafford wrote: >>>> Or, rather: >>>> >>>> "Motorcycles are NOT to park wherever they please, even if it the >>>> spaces they pick usually are truly wasted space that the parking >>>> authority has not bothered to deem motorcycle appropriate. Thus it is >>>> so decreed for it angers the car drivers to see the riders of two >>>> wheels being treated favorably by being allowed to park close to the >>>> doors when they the drivers of four wheels must undergo a long trek >>>> from the rearmost parking spaces." >>>> >>>> Or something like that. >>>> >>>> --Matthew >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> dc-cycles mailing list >>> dc-cycles@XXXXXX >>> http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> dc-cycles mailing list >> dc-cycles@XXXXXX >> http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles >> > _______________________________________________ > dc-cycles mailing list > dc-cycles@XXXXXX > http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles > _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 16:32:47 -0400 From: "Mike B." To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] Can anybody explain Mont. Co's 47-06 Ordinance change? Trevor Angel wrote: > sidewalk, and what was the difference? He said scooters were ok as > long as they were 50cc or less. The logic defies me, same as the logic > about not having to wear helmets on those things. Legally, a moped or other under 50cc scooter is a bicycle, while things with two wheels and bigger engines are motor vehicles...two different classes, just like cars and semis, with different rules. > The danger of an > accident is the same as on a motorcycle (or more, given the completely > unskilled operators) - and they take up about the same space on the > sidewalk as most motorcycles would... With small motors or no motor (bicycle, remember?) the speeds are lower, and the vehicle weights smaller. Both translate to available energy and available energy in a crash is usually a major factor in damage done. You have 4 times the energy at 50mph as you do at 25mph. As for space needed, my motorcycle takes up as much space as 2 or 3 parked mopeds. Not all bikes are tiny rice burners suitable for midget riders and contortion artists. Another factor is that bicycles are often ridden by children, while motorcycles are always ridden by adults (young or otherwise) who can afford to pay parking charges...and are seen as revenue sources. > But who said logic was a factor in these things? It is a factor, if you consider all the factors. > It's like the motorcycle parking spots just near hear. They used to be > 4hr meters, 25c/hour. Ok, so $2/day to park, not so bad. There were a > few regulars. Then they made it $1/hr - the same as a car, but 1/4 the > space. The only advantage of parking a m/c there is you only have to > feed the meter every 4 hours instead of every 2. Now nobody uses that > space. Eventually they'll just convert to car spots and encourage more > cars to come to town. Brilliant! I'd say it would encourage more people to work and live elsewhere. It would (and has) with me. It's just D.C.'s way of saying, "GO AWAY!!" -- Mike B. -- "...a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any particular individual citizen..." -- Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C. App.181) _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles