From: dc-cycles-digest-request@XXXXXX (The dc-cycles list administrator) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: dc-cycles digest for 08/21/08 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ __ /-----\ __ 'dc-cycles' is an unmoderated email discussion list (__\/ _____ \/__) about motorcycling in the Washington D.C. area. =( \___/ )= \ ___ / An archive of the dc-cycles list is available at: | / _ \ | http://www.dc-cycles.org/ \ || || / \|| ||/ Subscribe/unsubscribe requests should be sent to: \| |/ dc-cycles-digest-request@XXXXXX |_| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 21:41:07 -0600 From: Brian Roach To: B-DC cycles Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] pack riding at 140 miles per hour Yeah, see ... that all sounds good on paper and stuff, and it might fly on 'Law and Order' ... Real life? Not so much. Cop says you did something. Doesn't really matter that you didn't. Or that he didn't actually see you do it. Or that he couldn't have said what *color* your motorcycle was, never mind what you were wearing. We all had to take an online "Driver improvement" course. It was silly. Better than a reckless driving ticket, however. - Roach Mike Troutman wrote: > Ask the Loudoun Seven how that worked out. (old list reference) > > Danny Motorcycle wrote: > >> be interesting to see how this one turns out... >> >> A cop is to bear witness that he can identify a pack of >> speeding motorcyclists at 100 or 140 mph ? >> >> he's to say how many were in the group and who >> was and wasn't in the group? >> >> How does he know he got the right pack? >> >> what if there were multiple packs? what if the speeding pack >> left the highway and it was another pack of riders that pulled over? >> > > _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=syRjHRCBf5QA:10 a=YV568i4DT_cA:10 a=hR6SKshNAAAA:8 a=eXkgRcZKzUWnhIbYO_MA:9 a=CrVuh5QNpypkuvsimZMA:7 a=Dd75KwQ8j9FzMh61V5p4TxMqw7QA:4 a=7J08hxjrZSIA:10 a=nrUGvYwLnKIA:10 From: Hugh Caldwell To: Brian Roach Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 08:51:50 -0400 Cc: B-DC cycles Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] pack riding at 140 miles per hour Driver Improvement and $700 to the lawyer IIRC On Aug 21, 2008, at 12:00 AM, Brian Roach wrote: > Yeah, see ... that all sounds good on paper and stuff, and it might > fly > on 'Law and Order' ... > > Real life? Not so much. > > Cop says you did something. Doesn't really matter that you didn't. Or > that he didn't actually see you do it. Or that he couldn't have said > what *color* your motorcycle was, never mind what you were wearing. > > We all had to take an online "Driver improvement" course. It was > silly. > Better than a reckless driving ticket, however. > > - Roach > > Mike Troutman wrote: >> Ask the Loudoun Seven how that worked out. (old list reference) >> >> Danny Motorcycle wrote: >> >>> be interesting to see how this one turns out... >>> >>> A cop is to bear witness that he can identify a pack of >>> speeding motorcyclists at 100 or 140 mph ? >>> >>> he's to say how many were in the group and who >>> was and wasn't in the group? >>> >>> How does he know he got the right pack? >>> >>> what if there were multiple packs? what if the speeding pack >>> left the highway and it was another pack of riders that pulled over? >>> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > dc-cycles mailing list > dc-cycles@XXXXXX > http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles > _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) From: Dave Yates To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 09:19:23 -0400 Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] pack riding at 140 miles per hour Nowadays you can FOIA or file a discovery motion for dashcam video to refute made up infractions. You need to do it quickly after the charges & don't tip your hand to the cop while being written up. It won't have everything on it, but could be enough to acquit. Dave Yates Sent from my iPhone On Aug 21, 2008, at 8:51 AM, Hugh Caldwell wrote: > Driver Improvement and $700 to the lawyer IIRC > > On Aug 21, 2008, at 12:00 AM, Brian Roach wrote: > >> Yeah, see ... that all sounds good on paper and stuff, and it might >> fly >> on 'Law and Order' ... >> >> Real life? Not so much. >> >> Cop says you did something. Doesn't really matter that you didn't. Or >> that he didn't actually see you do it. Or that he couldn't have said >> what *color* your motorcycle was, never mind what you were wearing. >> >> We all had to take an online "Driver improvement" course. It was >> silly. >> Better than a reckless driving ticket, however. >> >> - Roach >> >> Mike Troutman wrote: >>> Ask the Loudoun Seven how that worked out. (old list reference) >>> >>> Danny Motorcycle wrote: >>> >>>> be interesting to see how this one turns out... >>>> >>>> A cop is to bear witness that he can identify a pack of >>>> speeding motorcyclists at 100 or 140 mph ? >>>> >>>> he's to say how many were in the group and who >>>> was and wasn't in the group? >>>> >>>> How does he know he got the right pack? >>>> >>>> what if there were multiple packs? what if the speeding pack >>>> left the highway and it was another pack of riders that pulled >>>> over? >>>> >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dc-cycles mailing list >> dc-cycles@XXXXXX >> http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles >> > > _______________________________________________ > dc-cycles mailing list > dc-cycles@XXXXXX > http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles > _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 09:37:21 -0400 From: "Michael Jordan" To: "Dave Yates" , "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] pack riding at 140 miles per hour Wouldn't have done any good. Trooper was respoiding to a call from the Purcellville Chief of Police. I strongly doubt that there was any evidence. The C.O.P. Showed up in full cop drag at court prepared, no doubt, to identify us individually. We probably could have beat it with a lot ot time and money, but really not worth the effort. It cost a few bucks, but we did cram it up the ass of the smug SOB that started the process. On 8/21/08, Dave Yates wrote: > Nowadays you can FOIA or file a discovery motion for dashcam video to > refute made up infractions. You need to do it quickly after the > charges & don't tip your hand to the cop while being written up. It > won't have everything on it, but could be enough to acquit. > > Dave Yates > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 21, 2008, at 8:51 AM, Hugh Caldwell > wrote: > >> Driver Improvement and $700 to the lawyer IIRC >> >> On Aug 21, 2008, at 12:00 AM, Brian Roach wrote: >> >>> Yeah, see ... that all sounds good on paper and stuff, and it might >>> fly >>> on 'Law and Order' ... >>> >>> Real life? Not so much. >>> >>> Cop says you did something. Doesn't really matter that you didn't. Or >>> that he didn't actually see you do it. Or that he couldn't have said >>> what *color* your motorcycle was, never mind what you were wearing. >>> >>> We all had to take an online "Driver improvement" course. It was >>> silly. >>> Better than a reckless driving ticket, however. >>> >>> - Roach >>> >>> Mike Troutman wrote: >>>> Ask the Loudoun Seven how that worked out. (old list reference) >>>> >>>> Danny Motorcycle wrote: >>>> >>>>> be interesting to see how this one turns out... >>>>> >>>>> A cop is to bear witness that he can identify a pack of >>>>> speeding motorcyclists at 100 or 140 mph ? >>>>> >>>>> he's to say how many were in the group and who >>>>> was and wasn't in the group? >>>>> >>>>> How does he know he got the right pack? >>>>> >>>>> what if there were multiple packs? what if the speeding pack >>>>> left the highway and it was another pack of riders that pulled >>>>> over? >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> dc-cycles mailing list >>> dc-cycles@XXXXXX >>> http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dc-cycles mailing list >> dc-cycles@XXXXXX >> http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles >> > _______________________________________________ > dc-cycles mailing list > dc-cycles@XXXXXX > http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles > -- Sent from Gmail for mobile | mobile.google.com Michael J. '86 SRX-6 '93 GSX1100G '03 DL1000 AMA IBA #3901 USAF (Ret) NRA etc. _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 10:21:42 -0400 From: Kevin Wierschke To: skip Cc: B-DC cycles Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] Chain Tool skip wrote: > Hey! > > Does anyone have a chain breaker and riveter that they'd be willing to > loan out? > > --skip > _______________________________________________ > dc-cycles mailing list > dc-cycles@XXXXXX > http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles > > Skip- I used this one for $16. I heard about it on a bike forum. Some folks said they used it and it worked well. I figured for $16 it was worth a try. It worked well and was of good quality, but lacked directions. http://www.mikesxs.net/mikesxs-tools.php?category_id=7.1#35-0081 Kevin _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 10:45:55 -0400 From: "Dr. Corona" To: "B-DC cycles" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.9 Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] Chain Tool Geesh, I'm tempted to plunk down about $500 and buy that whole page of stuff! Those are some hard to find tools. -Norris On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 10:21 AM, Kevin Wierschke wrote: > skip wrote: > > Hey! > > > > Does anyone have a chain breaker and riveter that they'd be willing to > > loan out? > > > > --skip > > _______________________________________________ > > dc-cycles mailing list > > dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles > > > > > Skip- > I used this one for $16. I heard about it on a bike forum. Some folks > said they used it and it worked well. I figured for $16 it was worth a > try. It worked well and was of good quality, but lacked directions. > > http://www.mikesxs.net/mikesxs-tools.php?category_id=7.1#35-0081 > > Kevin > _______________________________________________ > dc-cycles mailing list > dc-cycles@XXXXXX > http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles > _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 11:00:57 -0400 From: "Carl Custer" To: "Julian Halton" , DCCycles Subject: [dc-cycles] Traffic by Tom Vanderbilt Julian posted, "I picked this book up last night. My page 23 I was laughing so hard I fell off my bed." [Carl]: Good interview with Vanderbilt at: August 19, 2008, 8:37 am Answers From Tom Vanderbilt, Author of 'Traffic' < http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/08/19/answers-from-tom-vanderbilt-au= thor-of-traffic/ > Comments at the end are also entertaining especially about LLS ("left lane sleepers"); A.K.A. Left Lane Hogs, Left Lane Bandits. Late, last year, I wrote my Maryland Assembly "representatives" and recommended 13 actions. IMHO the non-controversal 7 were: 1. Pass a law requiring drivers to use turn signals when changing lanes. 2. Pass a law making traffic fines and points proportional to vehicle weigh= t. 3. Rescind the law prohibiting flashing headlight to request a pass. 4. Rescind the law prohibiting wearing headphones while driving. 5. Restrict drivers convicted of DUI/DWI or aggressive driving from operating vehicles weighing more than 3700 pounds for four years. 6. Implement a system to audit driver training schools. 7. Require the Motor Vehicle Administration implement a system for educating drivers on new legislation. Each item had a paragraph or two explaining the logic and in some cases dat= a. Only Senator Frosh replied with enclosed letters from the State Police & the MVA. The State Police Superintendent Sheridan saw no reason the change any laws. MVA Administrator Kuo was more supportive and pointed out that, My #9: Reserve the left lane for passing only "Transportation article =A7 21-301(a) (Driving on the right side of the road; exceptions) states that "On every roadway that s wide enough, a vehicle shall be driving on the right half ot the roadway . . ." The section goes on to enumerate instances when a vehicle can travel in the left lane and when it should be driven in the right lane. Plus, he cited =A7 21-303(b), =A721-304; =A7 21-305 regarding passing on the left or right. Neil Pedersen, Administrator of the State Highway Administration did not respond to either Senator Frosh's or Mr. Kuo's letters. Plans for the upcoming Maryland Assembly session are being made. Your letters and e-mails may have an effect . . .or not. Carl (Agitator) in Bethesda _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 11:46:47 -0400 From: "Matthew Bafford" To: "DC cycles" Subject: [dc-cycles] For sale: Alpinestars Vector Leather Jacket (42 US), Bat Pants (36T US), Back protector Any other skinny guys on here want a used and slightly scratched up leather racing suit? http://ydant.com/musings/alpinestars-racing-suit-vector-jacket-bat-pants-ce-back-protector/ I'm feeling the bite of new leather depreciation (jacket went down $200 in a year!), but I don't see any point in keeping a suit I'm not using. I'm not sure what I'll get with the damage on the jacket, but I'll start at $400 OBO with free delivery and/or meeting up a possibility if you live somewhere in the SW quadrant of the DC sprawl - just ask. It goes on ebay shortly, where I'll be hit with about 12% off the sale price from fees, so don't be shy about offers. :) Cheers, --Matthew _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 11:58:22 -0400 From: skip CC: B-DC cycles Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] Chain Tool Thanks for the tip! I've got one on the way... if it's not here by the 28th, I'll be taking up the offer of a lister to borrow theirs. blue skies! --skip Kevin Wierschke wrote: > skip wrote: >> Hey! >> >> Does anyone have a chain breaker and riveter that they'd be willing to >> loan out? >> >> --skip >> _______________________________________________ >> dc-cycles mailing list >> dc-cycles@XXXXXX >> http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles >> >> > Skip- > I used this one for $16. I heard about it on a bike forum. Some folks > said they used it and it worked well. I figured for $16 it was worth a > try. It worked well and was of good quality, but lacked directions. > > http://www.mikesxs.net/mikesxs-tools.php?category_id=7.1#35-0081 > > Kevin > _______________________________________________ > dc-cycles mailing list > dc-cycles@XXXXXX > http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles > > _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 12:17:09 -0400 From: "Mike B." To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] Traffic by Tom Vanderbilt Carl Custer wrote: > 1. Pass a law requiring drivers to use turn signals when changing lanes. That's not already a law? It was when I took driver training in VA. You are supposed to use turn signals any time you are "changing direction", and changing lanes requires a turn away from the direction of the road, at least slightly. Signaling lane changes has always been required as far as I know...it just isn't done around here because most drivers around here are untrained, incompetent idiots. If you *do* signal a lane change, many take it as a request for permission, rather than what it actually is: a warning of impending movement. It doesn't mean "may I?" it means, "COMING THROUGH!! -- Mike B. -- '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 12:38:11 -0400 From: "Matthew Bafford" To: omni@XXXXXX Cc: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] Traffic by Tom Vanderbilt On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 12:17 PM, Mike B. wrote: > Signaling lane changes has always been required as far as I know...it > just isn't done around here because most drivers around here are > untrained, incompetent idiots. If you *do* signal a lane change, many > take it as a request for permission, rather than what it actually is: a > warning of impending movement. It doesn't mean "may I?" it means, > "COMING THROUGH!! Signaling seems to me to be one of those things to get upset about only because it usually indicates a driver who is on the whole not paying attention to proper technique and to being helpful to those around them. For the most part, signaling doesn't really accomplish much, especially when combined with consistent and considerate driving. Most premeditated lane changes are perfectly obvious to other people around you (there are always tells) and are done at the appropriate time as to not interfere with traffic. There are two major exceptions I can think of where signaling *lane changes* makes a huge difference. In heavy traffic (where 2 second following distance is not being observed) signaling indicates to the traffic in the other lane that they need to back off slightly and give you just enough space to get over. Usually I have to use it to tell the other drive that they are backing off or getting a bit of blue paint on them. In very sparse traffic with multiple lanes and major speed differentials (some highway with two lanes in the direction of travel) where you're coming up on someone and they are moving over into the left lane to make a turn, the signaling helps you properly prepare. What annoys most people about lack of signaling (and it's primarily in medium to dense traffic) is that the lack of signaling is also accompanied by an inconsiderate lane shift that causes traffic around them to react (usually excessively). In this case, it's not the signaling that's the problem, it's the panic and/or egotistical move by the driver who didn't signal. These are the same drivers that would, if somehow forced to signal, signal and move over in the same move. You've seen those drivers do just that and likely gotten just as annoyed. In moderate traffic, I really don't care if people signal or not so much as I care if they look around themselves before acting or not. If I'm coming up on you at 10 miles per hour faster, then it doesn't really matter if you signal or not, your switching lanes in front of me is going to be annoying. What making signaling a law does is give cops one more probable cause for pulling someone over. Just like the cop pulling me over last night for not having my headlights on (coming out of a brightly lit parking lot, for fuck's sake) it gives the perfect reason to pull someone over and run their license and look for outstanding warrants, etc. I'd rather the law be off the books in favor of strongly enforcing laws that make more of a difference in traffic flow and safety. Just my two probably self-contradictory cents... --Matthew _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 12:43:27 -0400 From: "Matthew Bafford" To: "DC cycles" Subject: [dc-cycles] BW Parkway Motorcycle Crash (and possibly death) http://www.wtopnews.com/?nid=25&sid=1463876 :( _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 12:46:23 -0400 From: "Aki Damme" <01dyna@XXXXXX> To: "Matthew Bafford" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.9 Cc: DC cycles Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] BW Parkway Motorcycle Crash (and possibly death) no indication if the motorcyclist was one of the two killed. -aki (not that in the scheme of things is there any difference but since we're more exposed, there's the higher probability of that happening is all). On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 12:43 PM, Matthew Bafford wrote: > http://www.wtopnews.com/?nid=25&sid=1463876 > > :( > _______________________________________________ > dc-cycles mailing list > dc-cycles@XXXXXX > http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles > _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 13:28:15 -0400 From: "Wayne Edelen" To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] Traffic by Tom Vanderbilt On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 12:17 PM, Mike B. wrote: > Carl Custer wrote: > >> 1. Pass a law requiring drivers to use turn signals when changing lanes. > > That's not already a law? It was when I took driver training in VA. > > You are supposed to use turn signals any time you are "changing > direction", and changing lanes requires a turn away from the direction > of the road, at least slightly. > > Signaling lane changes has always been required as far as I know...it > just isn't done around here because most drivers around here are > untrained, incompetent idiots. If you *do* signal a lane change, many > take it as a request for permission, rather than what it actually is: a > warning of impending movement. It doesn't mean "may I?" it means, > "COMING THROUGH!! And it starts with those who have taken on the task to enforce those laws. Following a Frederick County Sheriff yesterday, she made 3-4 lane changes along route 70 without signaling (or even turning her head as far as I could tell), then took the exit for 270S from 70W and merged on the highway @ 50mph in front of another car who was doing 55-60mph (55mph limit). She lazily sped up to 70mph and then merged into the exit lane for 85 towards Buckeystown. A sedan passed her going about 15-20mph over the limit with the driver READING SOME DOCUMENTS - she never noticed. When I passed her, she was talking on the phone. :-\ I should have taken her cruiser number and license plate and followed up with a complaint to the Sheriff's office, but almost every officer I see around here is talking on the phone in while driving. -- Wayne _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 13:31:02 -0400 From: skip CC: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] Traffic by Tom Vanderbilt they're called "indicators," not "requesters". I am just informing people of what's about to happen. :~) Mike B. wrote: > Carl Custer wrote: > If you *do* signal a lane change, many > take it as a request for permission, rather than what it actually is: a > warning of impending movement. It doesn't mean "may I?" it means, > "COMING THROUGH!! _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 13:39:22 -0400 From: skip To: B-DC cycles Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] Traffic by Tom Vanderbilt I am doing just that - documenting bad driving cops and reporting them to their superiors. I have reported 2 VA troopers, and 2 Fairfax county cops, and have received good and prompt response from their superiors. As to whether anything really happens after that, I don't know. I like to think that it does. Wayne Edelen wrote: > I should have taken her cruiser number and license plate and followed > up with a complaint to the Sheriff's office, but almost every officer > I see around here is talking on the phone in while driving. > > -- Wayne _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 13:41:40 -0400 From: "Wayne Edelen" To: skip Cc: B-DC cycles Subject: [dc-cycles] Reporting bad police officers (was Traffic by Tom Vanderbilt) On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 1:39 PM, skip wrote: > I am doing just that - documenting bad driving cops and reporting them > to their superiors. I have reported 2 VA troopers, and 2 Fairfax county > cops, and have received good and prompt response from their superiors. > As to whether anything really happens after that, I don't know. > > I like to think that it does. I'll give it a try, skip. -- Wayne _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) From: "Dave Yates" To: "B-DC cycles" X-Forwarded-For: [(null)] Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 17:54:29 +0000 Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] Traffic by Tom Vanderbilt You guys are going about it the wrong way and sending the wrong message. DO you really want cops enforcing 55 on the beltway, 45 on US 1, 35 on Duke street, etc? OR do you want the chance to be able to bargain for a break. Here's what I did about May time frame. Was following FCPD cruiser down Kings hwy. FAST. REALLY FAST. No lights or siren and he was throwing a hell of a block for me. Got to work sent the MV district staff a "thank you" for the officer driving car ( I think it was 4160...), he threw the best block down Kings Hwy. I've ever had. I didn't know a Crown Vic could go that fast and stop at the bottom of the hill for the light. Some sections of Summit Point are slower. Can he arrange to be on duty and ready to throw my block on the way to work every morning. I did get a "we'll see what we can do Dave" from the CPO. with a wink. Dave -----Original Message----- From: skip [mailto:onefaller@XXXXXX] To: 'B-DC cycles' Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] Traffic by Tom Vanderbilt I am doing just that - documenting bad driving cops and reporting them to their superiors. I have reported 2 VA troopers, and 2 Fairfax county cops, and have received good and prompt response from their superiors. As to whether anything really happens after that, I don't know. I like to think that it does. Wayne Edelen wrote: > I should have taken her cruiser number and license plate and followed > up with a complaint to the Sheriff's office, but almost every officer > I see around here is talking on the phone in while driving. > > -- Wayne _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 12:16:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Nick Thompson To: B-DC cycles X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.9 Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] Traffic by Tom Vanderbilt I don't know Dave, sometimes filing a complaint is totally necessary.=A0 = =A0 Friday night I was on my home from the Montgomery County Fair (watched the = Demolition Derby).=A0 I had 2 MoCo cruisers up my ass going east on River R= oad.=A0 I crept up to 15 over and I couldn't even see their headlights they= were so close(was in the Car that night).=A0 I really wanted to pull over = and ask WTF their problem was that they felt as if tailgating was permissib= le. =A0 I have a very close friend who is a lawye,r once tell me to stand on the bi= nders so they'll hit me (in the car of course).=A0 He's gone after, on beha= lf of 3 or 4 clients who've pulled this off, DC and MoCo police dept's for = this and won on all counts. I personally don't want to risk it, but Friday = night I thought about it. =A0 The speeding thing... I don't really care.=A0 If they want to run blocker, = that's fine with me.=A0 But going down MD190 at 11pm is certainly no place = to tailgate, no exception.=A0 Had a deer jumped out in front of me, the one= MoCo officer would have collected me for sure!=A0 =A0 Nick ----- Original Message ---- From: Dave Yates To: B-DC cycles Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] Traffic by Tom Vanderbilt You guys are going about it the wrong way and sending the wrong message.=A0 = DO you really want cops enforcing 55 on the beltway, 45 on US 1, 35 on Duke= street, etc?=A0 OR do you want the chance to be able to bargain for a brea= k. Here's what I did about May time frame.=A0 Was following FCPD cruiser down = Kings hwy.=A0 FAST.=A0 REALLY FAST.=A0 No lights or siren and he was throwi= ng a hell of a block for me.=A0 = Got to work sent the MV district staff a "thank you" for the officer drivin= g car ( I think it was 4160...), he threw the best block down Kings Hwy. I'= ve ever had.=A0 I didn't know a Crown Vic could go that fast and stop at th= e bottom of the hill for the light.=A0 Some sections of Summit Point are sl= ower.=A0 Can he arrange to be on duty and ready to throw my block on the wa= y to work every morning. I did get a "we'll see what we can do Dave" from the CPO. with a wink.=A0 = Dave =A0 =A0 =A0 = -----Original Message----- From: skip [mailto:onefaller@XXXXXX] To: 'B-DC cycles' Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] Traffic by Tom Vanderbilt I am doing just that - documenting bad driving cops and reporting them = to their superiors.=A0 I have reported 2 VA troopers, and 2 Fairfax county = cops, and have received good and prompt response from their superiors. = As to whether anything really happens after that, I don't know. I like to think that it does. Wayne Edelen wrote: > I should have taken her cruiser number and license plate and followed > up with a complaint to the Sheriff's office, but almost every officer > I see around here is talking on the phone in while driving. > = > -- Wayne _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles = _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) From: "Chris Norloff" To: "'DC-Cycles'" Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 16:41:08 -0400 Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] Traffic by Tom Vanderbilt Nah, around here turn signals are just A**hole bait. Turning one on is like calling "here A**hole ... heeerrree A**hole" to see who cuts you off. Chris -----Original Message----- From: dc-cycles-bounces@XXXXXX [mailto:dc-cycles-bounces@XXXXXX] On Behalf Of skip Cc: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] Traffic by Tom Vanderbilt they're called "indicators," not "requesters". I am just informing people of what's about to happen. :~) Mike B. wrote: > Carl Custer wrote: > If you *do* signal a lane change, many take it as a request for > permission, rather than what it actually is: a warning of impending > movement. It doesn't mean "may I?" it means, "COMING THROUGH!! _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) From: "Chris Norloff" To: "'DC-Cycles'" Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 16:45:40 -0400 Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] Traffic by Tom Vanderbilt One place where signalling really helps is when you're moving into a lane that somebody else wants from the other side of a multi-lane road. Especially if they're beside you and can't see your front or rear turn signals. Those side-mounted turn signals help. Donald Norman wrote a human factors book called "Turn Signals are the Facial Expressions of Automobiles" (because they indicate intention). Good read for those interested in how designs help or hinder us. Chris -----Original Message----- From: dc-cycles-bounces@XXXXXX [mailto:dc-cycles-bounces@XXXXXX] On Behalf Of Matthew Bafford To: omni@XXXXXX Cc: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] Traffic by Tom Vanderbilt On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 12:17 PM, Mike B. wrote: > Signaling lane changes has always been required as far as I know...it > just isn't done around here because most drivers around here are > untrained, incompetent idiots. If you *do* signal a lane change, many > take it as a request for permission, rather than what it actually is: > a warning of impending movement. It doesn't mean "may I?" it means, > "COMING THROUGH!! Signaling seems to me to be one of those things to get upset about only because it usually indicates a driver who is on the whole not paying attention to proper technique and to being helpful to those around them. For the most part, signaling doesn't really accomplish much, especially when combined with consistent and considerate driving. Most premeditated lane changes are perfectly obvious to other people around you (there are always tells) and are done at the appropriate time as to not interfere with traffic. There are two major exceptions I can think of where signaling *lane changes* makes a huge difference. In heavy traffic (where 2 second following distance is not being observed) signaling indicates to the traffic in the other lane that they need to back off slightly and give you just enough space to get over. Usually I have to use it to tell the other drive that they are backing off or getting a bit of blue paint on them. In very sparse traffic with multiple lanes and major speed differentials (some highway with two lanes in the direction of travel) where you're coming up on someone and they are moving over into the left lane to make a turn, the signaling helps you properly prepare. What annoys most people about lack of signaling (and it's primarily in medium to dense traffic) is that the lack of signaling is also accompanied by an inconsiderate lane shift that causes traffic around them to react (usually excessively). In this case, it's not the signaling that's the problem, it's the panic and/or egotistical move by the driver who didn't signal. These are the same drivers that would, if somehow forced to signal, signal and move over in the same move. You've seen those drivers do just that and likely gotten just as annoyed. In moderate traffic, I really don't care if people signal or not so much as I care if they look around themselves before acting or not. If I'm coming up on you at 10 miles per hour faster, then it doesn't really matter if you signal or not, your switching lanes in front of me is going to be annoying. What making signaling a law does is give cops one more probable cause for pulling someone over. Just like the cop pulling me over last night for not having my headlights on (coming out of a brightly lit parking lot, for fuck's sake) it gives the perfect reason to pull someone over and run their license and look for outstanding warrants, etc. I'd rather the law be off the books in favor of strongly enforcing laws that make more of a difference in traffic flow and safety. Just my two probably self-contradictory cents... --Matthew _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles