From: dc-cycles-digest-request@XXXXXX (The dc-cycles list administrator) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: dc-cycles digest for 08/14/08 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ __ /-----\ __ 'dc-cycles' is an unmoderated email discussion list (__\/ _____ \/__) about motorcycling in the Washington D.C. area. =( \___/ )= \ ___ / An archive of the dc-cycles list is available at: | / _ \ | http://www.dc-cycles.org/ \ || || / \|| ||/ Subscribe/unsubscribe requests should be sent to: \| |/ dc-cycles-digest-request@XXXXXX |_| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 19:47:45 -0400 From: "Perry Coleman" To: "DC Cycles" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.9 Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] Some nice lady in a Thunderbird almost took me out Actually, this is a case where I pretty much whole-heartedly agree with Danny. I practice what I like to call "aggressive defensive" driving. It's built around the model that my vehicle is quicker and more nimble than those around me, so I can avoid the lumbering behemoths. Of course, one has to be alert to not get squashed by the errant mastodon while working the traffic flow. I probably piss off some cagers, but so be it. I also factor in the philosophy that there are two types of drivers: 1) Those that don't see me and try to kill me by accident; 2) Those that do see me and try to kill me on purpose. I don't hang around long enough to give either of them a chance... Perry On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 3:30 PM, Dave Yates wrote: > JK contributed: > Er... did you look at the people who've been posting about this > recently? Most of them are the ones I'd want riding around me, since > they seem to have a clue. How someone rides doesn't make other people > less stupid. All of the comments boil down to the following statement > "I've ridden plenty of places, but the DC area drivers are asshats". > That has nothing to do with how the person rides, it has everything to > do with where we are. > [Dave] I think that Danny meant smthng else entirely ;-) Agreed, you > simply cannot account for the unintelligent, under-intelligent, poorly > skilled, inattentive, hair brushing, makeup applying, cell yakking maroons > we drive with on a regular basis. OTOH, Danny's points are valid reminders > that while you may not be able to know merely by observing whether or not > your roadmates are deserving of a little genetic chlorine, you can make > yourself less of a target for stupidity by being more mobile. Actually, > Danny's advice about exits isn't unique, I remember it from my MSF class > (whether it was part of the curriculum or not). > My few pieces of eight. > Dave > _______________________________________________ > dc-cycles mailing list > dc-cycles@XXXXXX > http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles > _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 20:12:15 -0400 From: Joel Harding To: B-DC cycles Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] Some nice lady in a Thunderbird almost took me out QWNoLCBubywgbm90IG91dCBvZiBwcmFjdGljZS4gIEkgbGVmdCBEQyBmb3IgU291dGggRGFrb3Rh IG9uIEZyaWRheSwgc3BlbnQKU2F0dXJkYXkgYW5kIFN1bmRheSByaWRpbmcgd2l0aG91dCBhIGhl bG1ldCBhbmQgbm8gYXJtb3IsIHN0YXJ0ZWQgb24gbXkKcmV0dXJuIHRyaXAgb24gTW9uZGF5LCBh cnJpdmVkIGluIERDIG9uIFR1ZXNkYXkgbW9ybmluZy4gIE5vdGhpbmcgbGlrZQozLDAwMCsgbWls ZXMgaW4gb25lIHdlZWtlbmQuICBXaGF0IHN1cnByaXNlZCBtZSwgaG93ZXZlciwgd2FzIHRoYXQg cmlkaW5nIGF0CjkwIG1waCBvdXQgdGhlcmUgZmVsdCBzbG93IGFuZCBlYXN5LCBhY3R1YWxseSBp dCB3YXMgaWYgeW91IGNvbnNpZGVyIHlvdSBjYW4Kc2VlIGZvciBmaXZlIG1pbGVzLiAgQnV0IHRo ZSB0cmFmZmljIGluIENoaWNhZ28gb24gSS05MCwgYXMgYWdncmVzc2l2ZSBhcyBpdApmZWx0LCB3 YXMgbm90aGluZyBjb21wYXJlZCB0byB0aGUgbWV0cm8gREMgYXJlYS4gIEp1c3QgYW4gRllJLCBJ IHdpbGwgbmV2ZXIKdGFrZSB0aGF0IHJvdXRlIGhvbWUgYWdhaW4gKEktOTAsIEktODAsIEktNzYp LCB0aGUgdG9sbHMgYXJlIG91dHJhZ2VvdXMgYW5kCnRoZSByb2FkIGNvbmRpdGlvbnMgd2VyZSB0 ZXJyaWJsZSBhbGwgdG9vIG9mdGVuLgoKUmlkaW5nIGF0IDc1IG1waCBvbiBJLTcwLCBJLTI3MCwg dGhlIEJlbHR3YXkgYW5kIEktOTUgZmVsdCBsaWtlIHJ1bm5pbmcgYQpweWxvbiBjb3Vyc2UgLSBz ZXJpb3VzbHkuICAuLi5hbmQgSSByaWRlIG11Y2ggbW9yZSBhZ2dyZXNzaXZlbHkgdGhhbiBtb3N0 CihhbmQgSSBhcG9sb2dpemUpLCB3aGVuIEknbSBoZWxsLWJlbnQgb24gZ2V0dGluZyBob21lIEkg c29tZXRpbWVzIGdpdmUKYmlrZXJzIGEgYmFkIG5hbWUuIAoKCk9uIDgvMTMvMDggOTowOCBBTSwg IlBlbmd1aW5CaWtlckBjb21jYXN0Lm5ldCIgPFBlbmd1aW5CaWtlckBjb21jYXN0Lm5ldD4Kd3Jv dGU6Cgo+IAo+ICAtLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLSBPcmlnaW5hbCBtZXNzYWdlIC0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0KPiBGcm9tOiBKb2VsIEhhcmRpbmcgPGpvZWxoYXJAY294Lm5ldD4KPiAKPj4gSSBq dXN0IGFycml2ZWQgYmFjayBmcm9tIGEgd29uZGVyZnVsIHRyaXAgdG8gU291dGggRGFrb3RhLgo+ IAo+PiBJIHB1bGxlZCBpbiBhdCAxMCBBTSAobm9uc3RvcCkgYW5kIHdhcyBhdCB3b3JrIGJ5IG5v b24sIHRvIHB1dCBpdCBpbgo+PiBwZXJzcGVjdGl2ZS4KPiAKPiBHb3QgYmFjayB0byB0b3duIGFm dGVyIGEgdHdvIG1vbnRoIHRyaXAgYXJvdW5kIHRoZSBjb3VudHJ5IGF0IDEwcG0uIEkgaGFkIHRv Cj4gYmUgYXQgd29yayBhdCBtaWRuaWdodCB0aGF0IG5pZ2h0Lgo+IF9BbmRfIEkgc3RvcHBlZCB0 byDigJ52aXNpdOKAsCBhIGdpcmxmcmllbmQgb24gdGhlIHdheSB0byB3b3JrLgo+IEFoaGggdG8g YmUgeW91bmcgYWdhaW4uLi4gKHRoaXMgd2FzIGluIDc2KQo+IAo+IEFuZCB5b3UgZG8gZ2V0IG91 dCBvZiBwcmFjdGljZSBpbiBkZWFsaW5nIHdpdGggdHJhZmZpYyB3aGVuIHlvdSBoYXZlIGJlZW4g b3V0Cj4gaW4gdGhlIG1pZGRsZSBvZiBub3doZXJlIGZvciBhIHdoaWxlLgo+IC0tCj4gSm9obiBX Lgo+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fCj4gZGMt Y3ljbGVzIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdAo+IGRjLWN5Y2xlc0BkYy1jeWNsZXMub3JnCj4gaHR0cDovL2Rj LWN5Y2xlcy5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9jZ2ktYmluL2xpc3RpbmZvL2RjLWN5Y2xlcwoKCl9fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fCmRjLWN5Y2xlcyBtYWlsaW5n IGxpc3QKZGMtY3ljbGVzQGRjLWN5Y2xlcy5vcmcKaHR0cDovL2RjLWN5Y2xlcy5vcmcvbWFpbG1h bi9jZ2ktYmluL2xpc3RpbmZvL2RjLWN5Y2xlcw== _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=-cOTXw43x5gA:10 a=Ci-UJI7Awg4A:10 a=_F3Wa-s3-7FKgb3lAbQA:9 a=YN47E_MAzOwbSOJIZc00djSvAXAA:4 a=4vB-4DCPJfMA:10 a=KUJAPYlYduUA:10 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX (B-DC cycles) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 00:30:54 +0000 X-Authenticated-Sender: UGVuZ3VpbkJpa2VyQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] Some nice lady in a Thunderbird almost took me out --===============1518319982== -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Joel Harding > What surprised me, however, was that riding at > 90 mph out there felt slow and easy, That is something big shitty folks and legislators forget. When you get outside of the eastern states going 50 or even 60-70 can be a damn sight more dangerous then going 90-100 because there is just not enough stimulus to keep you alert. Being bored while driving is dangerous because you lose focus and that can kill you. I once rode 20 or so miles with a friend of mine, the guy damn near crashed _three_ times on that ride because he kept “sky bugging” (his term.) I just rode too damn slow for him to keep his mind from wandering. (No I never rode with him again, but last I heard he had never had a bad crash either and he rode like a maniac.) If you have never ridden/driven out west you just do not know what miles and miles of miles can do to you. -- John Walters 99 Honda St1100 (Over 100,000 mi.) 83 BMW R80RT (Over 200,000 mi.) 76 Honda CR250M --===============1518319982== _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles --===============1518319982==-- _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=-cOTXw43x5gA:10 a=Ci-UJI7Awg4A:10 a=9owOnXT9HWofAiXnmw8A:9 a=lZwb1cGoh0kLCW3vKUhD1TzKYEsA:4 a=MSl-tDqOz04A:10 a=KUJAPYlYduUA:10 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX (B-DC cycles) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 00:40:15 +0000 X-Authenticated-Sender: UGVuZ3VpbkJpa2VyQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] Some nice lady in a Thunderbird almost took me out -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Perry Coleman" > > > I practice what I like to call "aggressive defensive" driving. Ya got a big ol DITTO from me on that one. Driving/riding safely _is_ aggressive. -- John Walters 99 Honda St1100 (Over 100,000 mi.) 83 BMW R80RT (Over 200,000 mi.) 76 Honda CR250M _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=vc2hnDBrWswA:10 a=Pym7dZnv4XwA:10 a=FifG5oylv88hcWnOKRQA:9 a=T-4R-LVjD4mwRYtXbg3MvQkuz7kA:4 a=si9q_4b84H0A:10 a=7J08hxjrZSIA:10 a=4vB-4DCPJfMA:10 a=M5NflSamuk0A:10 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX (B-DC cycles) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 00:43:53 +0000 X-Authenticated-Sender: UGVuZ3VpbkJpa2VyQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 Subject: [dc-cycles] FW: Re: Some nice lady in a Thunderbird almost took me out --===============1673142519== Dammnit! Truncated my post again! The whole post (I hope) was. -------------- Forwarded Message: -------------- From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX (B-DC cycles) Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] Some nice lady in a Thunderbird almost took me out Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 00:30:54 +0000 > > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > From: Joel Harding > > What surprised me, however, was that riding at > > 90 mph out there felt slow and easy, > > > That is something big shitty folks and legislators forget. When you get outside > of the eastern states going 50 or even 60-70 can be a damn sight more dangerous > then going 90-100 because there is just not enough stimulus to keep you alert. > Being bored while driving is dangerous because you lose focus and that can kill > you. > I once rode 20 or so miles with a friend of mine, the guy damn near crashed > _three_ times on that ride because he kept “sky bugging” (his term.) I just rode > too damn slow for him to keep his mind from wandering. (No I never rode with him > again, but last I heard he had never had a bad crash either and he rode like a > maniac.) > If you have never ridden/driven out west you just do not know what miles and > miles of miles can do to you. > > -- > John Walters > 99 Honda St1100 (Over 100,000 mi.) > 83 BMW R80RT (Over 200,000 mi.) > 76 Honda CR250M --===============1673142519== _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles --===============1673142519==-- _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=103xbUM2EGsA:10 a=oqjM70vPjtwA:10 a=SzilKzLrjhsCqVtxeCEA:9 a=VATPts36dSSdwb1kKTlI-odovgwA:4 a=MSl-tDqOz04A:10 a=KUJAPYlYduUA:10 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX (B-DC cycles) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 00:59:12 +0000 X-Authenticated-Sender: UGVuZ3VpbkJpa2VyQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] FW: Re: Some nice lady in a Thunderbird almost took me out -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Skip > I got the whole thing... OK Sorry folks, for some reason it comes back to me without the forwarded text. John _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 08:36:56 -0400 From: "Danny Motorcycle" To: DC-Cycles X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.9 Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] FW: Re: Some nice lady in a Thunderbird almost took me out Of course DC drivers are asshats.. If one cuts me off.. I'm pretty much over it pretty quickly. I knew they were asshats when I got on the highway.. i've already factored that in to my expectations. Incident over? ok so what's going to be the attention on my mind, being unhappy about the last asshat or going back to full alert mode looking for the next one? If it's over, i'm sure I have new things to worry about that take precident. :) I often hear it from strangers "those things are dangerous, because of other drivers" and "there's no doors, they are unsafe someone else could hit you" and I without fail I reply some form of "you're right, and that's why I focus on riding where I keep that in mind, that someone will do something stupid, and I keep myself away from other drivers, so even when they do the dumb things, i'm not in a position for them to hit me, I try to keep a space cushion in every direction around me, and slow down when it looks like someone pull out in front of me, or as traffic gets congested". And on the other hand, this discussion may be more focused around rush hour where space isn't an option. I try to avoid operating any vehicle around that time. I know it's less safe, fuel wasting and more time consuming. If I have to, I try to plan it where i'm heading home or near home as the rush hour kicks in, or take the longer less congested secondary routes, and judge highways before I get on them. I always think i'll catch that traffic where i'm stuck for hours on 395 or 495 around rush hour. So it could be in our fruitful discussion other people were talking about apples and I was talking about oranges... or as mentioned, I haven't taken the opportunity to be spoiled to ride in western areas. -Danny _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 08:56:41 -0400 From: "Michael Jordan" To: "DC Cycles" Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] Some nice lady in a Thunderbird almost took me out > Actually, this is a case where I pretty much whole-heartedly agree with > Danny. Embarrassing, isn't it? :-) I have heard [hearsay] that the CHP motor cops maintain that it's safer to be going slightly faster than traffic (operative word here is "slightly"). [/hearsay] This puts you in the position of actively managing your environment rather than being managed by it. Seems to work. Does NOT seem to have much effect on roadside conversations with non-CHP ossifers :-( -- Michael J. '86 SRX-6 '93 GSX1100G '03 DL1000 AMA IBA #3901 USAF (Ret) NRA etc. _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles