From: dc-cycles-digest-request@XXXXXX (The dc-cycles list administrator) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: dc-cycles digest for 08/08/08 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ __ /-----\ __ 'dc-cycles' is an unmoderated email discussion list (__\/ _____ \/__) about motorcycling in the Washington D.C. area. =( \___/ )= \ ___ / An archive of the dc-cycles list is available at: | / _ \ | http://www.dc-cycles.org/ \ || || / \|| ||/ Subscribe/unsubscribe requests should be sent to: \| |/ dc-cycles-digest-request@XXXXXX |_| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 21:35:22 -0400 From: Bob Meyer To: Julian Halton , DC-Cycles Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] Helmet involved in a slide etiquette Hmm. My first reaction was to say "Sure," as long as you're honest and truthful. But on further consideration, I don't know. Did the helmet actually impact the pavement? If not, I'd say go ahead and sell it. But if it did, there's bound to be people who will buy it only because it's cheap, and never care whether it's safe or not. I don't know that I'd want to be responsible for someone wearing a possibly unsafe helmet. Not a clear answer, I know. Sorry, Bob ---- Julian Halton wrote: > I have a Shoei X-II helmet that was involved in a lowside coming out of Turn 1 Summit Point in 05. Is it ethical to put it up for sale as a helmet that has made contact with asphalt in a low side and clearly state that the buyer is responsible for verifying the integrity of the helmet with Shoei or at this point is the helmet artwork or a target? > > > > _______________________________________________ > dc-cycles mailing list > dc-cycles@XXXXXX > http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles -- Bob Meyer, #1157, Fairfax, Virginia '01 Candy Dark Red ST1100, "teSTarossa" Life is all about ass... You're either covering it, laughing it off, kicking it, kissing it, busting it, trying to get a piece of it, or behaving like one. _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 23:05:56 -0400 From: "smthng else" To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] Helmet involved in a slide etiquette You can't check a box on an "ethics" question, so I'll just toss out my opinion. My head is worth more than a few bucks I'd make off of a possibly damaged helmet. I wouldn't expect someone else to wear something I wouldn't. Helmets can be expensive to replace (I've got a four I eventually need to toss out), but I consider that to be an acceptable cost in order to ride again. Just my opinion. If you really want to pursue it further, you could contact the helmet manufacturer and ask if they have some kind of helmet inspection or smthng. It couldn't hurt. At best you could get some kind of manufacturers document saying it's perfectly fine, which might get you a buyer who might otherwise turn away. At worst, you're still right where you are now. --Jonathan "smthng" Kalmes Springfield, VA 2005 Yamaha FJR1300ABS - "Blue Bayou" 2006 Jeep Unlimited Rubicon - "Teflon" 2008 Kawasaki KLR 650 - It's here, but it hasn't earned a name yet. ;) http://smthng.info "If I'd known it was harmless, I would have killed it myself." On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 4:14 PM, Julian Halton wrote: > I have a Shoei X-II helmet that was involved in a lowside coming out of Turn 1 Summit Point in 05. Is it ethical to put it up for sale as a helmet that has made contact with asphalt in a low side and clearly state that the buyer is responsible for verifying the integrity of the helmet with Shoei or at this point is the helmet artwork or a target? > > > > _______________________________________________ > dc-cycles mailing list > dc-cycles@XXXXXX > http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles > > _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 23:09:58 -0400 From: "Matthew Bafford" To: you@XXXXXX Cc: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] Helmet involved in a slide etiquette he mentioned the shoei inspection, which is free... except for shipping. On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 11:05 PM, smthng else wrote: > You can't check a box on an "ethics" question, so I'll just toss out my opinion. > > My head is worth more than a few bucks I'd make off of a possibly > damaged helmet. I wouldn't expect someone else to wear something I > wouldn't. Helmets can be expensive to replace (I've got a four I > eventually need to toss out), but I consider that to be an acceptable > cost in order to ride again. > > Just my opinion. > > If you really want to pursue it further, you could contact the helmet > manufacturer and ask if they have some kind of helmet inspection or > smthng. It couldn't hurt. At best you could get some kind of > manufacturers document saying it's perfectly fine, which might get you > a buyer who might otherwise turn away. At worst, you're still right > where you are now. > > --Jonathan "smthng" Kalmes > Springfield, VA > 2005 Yamaha FJR1300ABS - "Blue Bayou" > 2006 Jeep Unlimited Rubicon - "Teflon" > 2008 Kawasaki KLR 650 - It's here, but it hasn't earned a name yet. ;) > http://smthng.info > > "If I'd known it was harmless, I would have killed it myself." > > > > On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 4:14 PM, Julian Halton > wrote: >> I have a Shoei X-II helmet that was involved in a lowside coming out of Turn 1 Summit Point in 05. Is it ethical to put it up for sale as a helmet that has made contact with asphalt in a low side and clearly state that the buyer is responsible for verifying the integrity of the helmet with Shoei or at this point is the helmet artwork or a target? >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dc-cycles mailing list >> dc-cycles@XXXXXX >> http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles >> >> > _______________________________________________ > dc-cycles mailing list > dc-cycles@XXXXXX > http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles > _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) X-YMail-OSG: PSNDvGsVM1kAL3q8Y.CG3hsRwfynKCKujqEgBVjQVjNiSgPg_LLAgZZJEzbUalEXev1MVtQlbeR2stMt1_v1.vxHRhofcNT9DshW1hnH1cT7QE88Ba2ka8mn3j0QPqhEFA-- Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 20:41:01 -0700 (PDT) From: matthew patton To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] Helmet involved in a slide etiquette IMO you have absolutely no business selling the helmet as anything more than a piece of artwork. To reinforce the point I'd deliberately chop off the chin straps. unless your paint-job is a one of a kind, why on earth would you even think of selling it? _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 09:42:41 -0600 From: Brian Roach To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] Helmet involved in a slide etiquette Why not? As long as you state exactly what you did below, I see no problem with it. "AS IS, recommend sending to Shoei for free inspection" Would I buy that helmet? Nope. But someone will. And you not selling yours will not prevent them from buying a similar helmet from someone else. You are not responsible for others' decisions. And honestly, having sent helmet out after low-sides, it could be just fine and the buyer will be getting a deal. - Roach Julian Halton wrote: > I have a Shoei X-II helmet that was involved in a lowside coming out of Turn 1 Summit Point in 05. Is it ethical to put it up for sale as a helmet that has made contact with asphalt in a low side and clearly state that the buyer is responsible for verifying the integrity of the helmet with Shoei or at this point is the helmet artwork or a target? > > > > _______________________________________________ > dc-cycles mailing list > dc-cycles@XXXXXX > http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles > _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) To: DC-Cycles Comments: In-reply-to Julian Halton message dated "Thu, 07 Aug 2008 16:14:00 -0400." Content-ID: <27827.1218217644.1@XXXXXX> Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 13:47:25 -0400 From: Harry Mantakos Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] Helmet involved in a slide etiquette >... Is it ethical to put it up for sale as a helmet that has made contact >with asphalt... Well, there are two ethical issues here. One is the "selling defective goods" issue, which I think is sufficiently handled by accurately describing the item's condition and history. The other is in handing off a potentially damaged helmet to a buyer, who may not take the steps needed to ensure its safety. Ultimately, if it's me, I'd send the helmet off to Shoei for inspection. The cost is just the one-way shipping, they inspect for free and ship back for free. If the helmet comes back with a clean bill of health, then along with the description/history, you get to include the results of the test, which should result in a better selling price. If the helmet comes back with a "fail", then I couldn't, in good conscience, see selling the helmet. Of course, this all assumes that Shoei's testing is sufficient to determine the safety of the helmet. I know nothing about this, and would just have to place trust in it. -harry _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) From: "mail2mikeb@XXXXXX" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX CC: Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 11:02:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] Helmet involved in a slide etiquette Would you let a loved on use it if you knew they were about to get into a wreck? -----Original Message----- Date: Thursday, August 07, 2008 11:41:36 pm To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "matthew patton" Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] Helmet involved in a slide etiquette IMO you have absolutely no business selling the helmet as anything more than a piece of artwork. To reinforce the point I'd deliberately chop off the chin straps. unless your paint-job is a one of a kind, why on earth would you even think of selling it? _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 14:42:01 -0400 From: "Danny Motorcycle" To: DC-Cycles X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.9 Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] Helmet involved in a slide etiquette I bet it's in way way better condition than my passenger helmet, ( it's so bad, you SHOULDN"T see it lol) so how much do you want for it? (and you could ethically know people were getting an upgrade in safety), - Danny _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 14:46:17 -0400 From: "Danny Motorcycle" To: DC-Cycles X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.9 Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] Helmet involved in a slide etiquette oh and begin the 'helmet' thread. I believe in helmets.. but I wouldn't fool myself about them. We're still human inside them. There's styrafoam around a shell. Some head impact accidents are going to kill us regardless, helmet or not. I wouldn't say I depend on a helmet to keep me alive because I don't. I do wear a helmet for 1> head protection and comfort while not crashing 2>head and face asthetic protection in minor accidents 3> and maybe luck of a not so minor crash. _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 14:46:37 -0400 From: "Danny Motorcycle" To: DC-Cycles X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.9 Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] Helmet involved in a slide etiquette oops I said around a shell, meant vice versa. _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 14:50:15 -0400 From: "Danny Motorcycle" To: DC-Cycles X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.9 Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] Helmet involved in a slide etiquette One thing I would not do is cut the straps. You can't make anything idiot proof. Hell you might make it more idiot enabling.. some fool might try to put their own straps on there, or use it with no straps at all just to satisfy a helmet law.. and if it had straps, they might be more inclined to use them, or at least have the option to. I do see idiots all the time riding scooters unstrapped. So if you cut the straps you might actually defeat your own purpose of trying to prevent a dangerous situation and make it more dangerous. plus you dont' know if the next buyer might want the straps on there for some other reason. Maybe a demonstration of a crash for a classroom on a dummy and need them etc. _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 15:35:46 -0400 From: "Carl Custer" To: sabmag@XXXXXX, DCCycles Cc: "Schofield, Geoffrey \(NIH/CSR\) \[E\]" Subject: [dc-cycles] Mileage: This year: My '85 VF700S has averaged 47.43 MPG with a high of 53 MPG and a low of 43 = MPG. The '96 ST1100 has averaged 48.57 MPG with a high of 53 MPG and a low of 47= MPG. FWIW, the ST's high was going from Quaker City, OH to Frederick, MD over interstates at a grandfatherly 65-70 mph. The Sabre's high was tooling around South Mountain with Richard and David. For those who use your motorcycle for "Official duties": Whilst calculating my expenses for the trip to Columbus, I Googled: GSA Mil= eage Much to my delight, I found: Aaaa=85nd!: "If no Government Owned Vehicle available August 1, 2008 $0.585 Motorcycle August 1, 2008 $0.585" Woo hoo. Motorcycles now get the same rate as cages. Carl (Offishul Motorsicklist) in Bethesda _______________________________________________ dc-cycles mailing list dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://dc-cycles.org/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/dc-cycles