From: dc-cycles-digest-request@XXXXXX (The dc-cycles list administrator) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Errors-To: dc-cycles-digest-request@XXXXXX Subject: dc-cycles digest for 12/13/05 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ __ /-----\ __ 'dc-cycles' is an unmoderated email discussion list (__\/ _____ \/__) about motorcycling in the Washington D.C. area. =( \___/ )= \ ___ / An archive of the dc-cycles list is available at: | / _ \ | http://www.dc-cycles.org/ \ || || / \|| ||/ Subscribe/unsubscribe requests should be sent to: \| |/ dc-cycles-digest-request@XXXXXX |_| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ X-Authenticated-User: pltrgyst.covad.net Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 22:20:10 -0500 To: Danny Motorcycle , DCcycles From: ll Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] close call At 06:42 PM 12/12/2005, Danny Motorcycle wrote: >.... We all pay taxes for the road, >and i'm on that side of the argument that we have a right to use the >roads. Who's on the other side? >Gov't recognizes our freedom to travel.... You made that up, right? >.... I don't see tripple digits alone, as inherrently; >evil, immoral , or endangering. Many grandmotherly conservative types do, however. And they're wandering haphazardly all over the highways to make sure that we, their enemies, pay the supreme sacrifice for our speed. >.... Of course I'm only talking about an accomadating environment. Which, unfortunately, doesn't exist east of the Mississippi. >There is a difference between fast and reckless. There are many bikers on the beltway, especially the NE quadrant, who don't possess that knowledge, sadly. >I'm not even going to touch >upon VA law being overbearing and should be rescinded. You weren't sitting in a bar when you wrote this, were you? > I also plan on doing summit point as well next year. Good plan -- enjoy it! I'm not anti-speed. I've driven thousands of laps at Summit Point, Watkins Glen, Charlotte, Nelson Ledges, etc. When I'm commuting on the bike, I've got a few pet strips on the GW Parkway and the Beltway where I often take a triple digit blast. (And in the personal quirks department, I've hit triple digits on either two wheels of four wheels *with the top down* on every New Year's Day since 1964 -- it's a family tradition.) But you've got to be very selective when you take those opportunities, because, on the whole, US drivers are untrained and brain-dead. It's not like driving the autoroutes in Europe, where you can cruise at triple digits in absolute safety all day long except for construction and urban zones -- drivers over there have lane discipline, which makes all the difference in the world. In the US, we simply don't have the guts to enforce a requirement for decent driving skills; this would somehow be interpreted as impeding on personal freedom. -- Larry (looking forward to driving those triple-digit autoroutes and autobahns from Dec 25th to January 15th...) _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 00:24:52 -0500 From: skip To: ll , DC Cycles Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] close call first you said: >Gov't recognizes our freedom to travel.... You made that up, right? then you said: In the US, we simply don't have the guts to enforce a requirement for decent driving skills; this would somehow be interpreted as impeding on personal freedom. skip says: hmmmm. ll wrote: > > At 06:42 PM 12/12/2005, Danny Motorcycle wrote: > >.... We all pay taxes for the road, > >and i'm on that side of the argument that we have a right to use the > >roads. > > Who's on the other side? > > >Gov't recognizes our freedom to travel.... > > You made that up, right? > > >.... I don't see tripple digits alone, as inherrently; > >evil, immoral , or endangering. > > Many grandmotherly conservative types do, however. And they're wandering > haphazardly all over the highways to make sure that we, their enemies, pay > the supreme sacrifice for our speed. > > >.... Of course I'm only talking about an accomadating environment. > > Which, unfortunately, doesn't exist east of the Mississippi. > > >There is a difference between fast and reckless. > > There are many bikers on the beltway, especially the NE quadrant, who > don't possess that knowledge, sadly. > > >I'm not even going to touch > >upon VA law being overbearing and should be rescinded. > > You weren't sitting in a bar when you wrote this, were you? > > > I also plan on doing summit point as well next year. > > Good plan -- enjoy it! > > I'm not anti-speed. I've driven thousands of laps at Summit Point, Watkins > Glen, Charlotte, Nelson Ledges, etc. > When I'm commuting on the bike, I've got a few pet strips on the GW > Parkway and the Beltway where I often take a triple digit blast. (And in > the personal quirks department, I've hit triple digits on either two wheels > of four wheels *with the top down* on every New Year's Day since 1964 -- > it's a family tradition.) > > But you've got to be very selective when you take those opportunities, > because, on the whole, US drivers are untrained and brain-dead. It's not > like driving the autoroutes in Europe, where you can cruise at triple > digits in absolute safety all day long except for construction and urban > zones -- drivers over there have lane discipline, which makes all the > difference in the world. In the US, we simply don't have the guts to > enforce a requirement for decent driving skills; this would somehow be > interpreted as impeding on personal freedom. > > -- Larry (looking forward to driving those triple-digit autoroutes and > autobahns from Dec 25th to January 15th...) _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 00:28:09 -0500 From: skip To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] speed alone is not reckless sorry. forgot to include the tag. I thought it was up there with letting out the summer air and filling with winter air. apologies. --skip dc-cycles@XXXXXX wrote: > > At 10:08 AM 12/12/2005, skip wrote: > > >sometimes you've just gotta take the risk for yourself ... > > Fine. > > >... and all those around you. > > Not so fine. > > -- Larry _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 06:44:05 -0500 From: Danny Motorcycle To: ll Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] close call Cc: DCcycles >.... We all pay taxes for the road, > >and i'm on that side of the argument that we have a right to use the > >roads. > > Who's on the other side? The Privlidge' crowd. "you don't have a right to use the road, driving is a privledge granted by the state". Hmm well maybe they should not take tax money for hte roads, and then re-administer those fees at licensing time. > >Gov't recognizes our freedom to travel.... > > You made that up, right? well with or without sizzors on an airline that's seems to be changing back and forth. > >.... I don't see tripple digits alone, as inherrently; > >evil, immoral , or endangering. > > Many grandmotherly conservative types do, however. And they're wandering > haphazardly all over the highways to make sure that we, their enemies, pay > the supreme sacrifice for our speed. Ship them to iraq. > >.... Of course I'm only talking about an accomadating environment. > > Which, unfortunately, doesn't exist east of the Mississippi. Now that's not true. > >There is a difference between fast and reckless. > > There are many bikers on the beltway, especially the NE quadrant, who > don't possess that knowledge, sadly. Now that's true. > >I'm not even going to touch > >upon VA law being overbearing and should be rescinded. > > You weren't sitting in a bar when you wrote this, were you? no, but I can not tell you that I was robbing a liquor store. > > I also plan on doing summit point as well next year. > > Good plan -- enjoy it! Hopefully as painlessly as possible lol > I'm not anti-speed. I've driven thousands of laps at Summit Point, Watkins > Glen, Charlotte, Nelson Ledges, etc. > When I'm commuting on the bike, I've got a few pet strips on the GW > Parkway and the Beltway where I often take a triple digit blast. (And in > the personal quirks department, I've hit triple digits on either two wheels > of four wheels *with the top down* on every New Year's Day since 1964 -- > it's a family tradition.) now that's funny. > But you've got to be very selective when you take those opportunities, of course.. > because, on the whole, US drivers are untrained and brain-dead. It's not > like driving the autoroutes in Europe, where you can cruise at triple > digits in absolute safety all day long except for construction and urban > zones -- drivers over there have lane discipline, which makes all the > difference in the world. In the US, we simply don't have the guts to > enforce a requirement for decent driving skills; this would somehow be > interpreted as impeding on personal freedom. > > -- Larry (looking forward to driving those triple-digit autoroutes and > autobahns from Dec 25th to January 15th...) maybe you can start a driver exchange program _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 10:32:34 -0800 (PST) From: "James O'Connor" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: [dc-cycles] Moto Commuting - Leesburg to DC Anyone on the list commute to DC from Leesburg daily via the toll road? I'm considering moving out that way, but am wondering how the trip is. I'm in Herndon now, but unfamiliar with commuting from father west. Current commute is about 45 minutes - am hoping I can do Leesburg in about an hour? - Jimmy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 14:26:01 -0500 From: Michael Jordan To: "James O'Connor" Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] Moto Commuting - Leesburg to DC Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Anyone on the list commute to DC from Leesburg daily via the toll > road? The Greenway's quick (but expensive) The Toll road moves along pretty well (Time Of Day dependent) and isn't quite as expensive. Unless you're HOV enabled, you will have to bail at the Beltway or 123. Traffic northbound on 495 is always at a standstill. My commute is Sterling to Tyson's -- Michael J. '86 SRX-6 '93 GSX1100G '03 DL1000 AMA IBA #3901 USAF (Ret) NRA etc. _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 11:44:20 -0800 (PST) From: "James O'Connor" Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] Moto Commuting - Leesburg to DC To: Michael Jordan Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I'm on the bike, so HOV approved. Greenway rates are absurdly expensive. Between increased tolls and fuel, montly commute would go up $150. Crazy! Sadly, it still may be cheaper to live in Leesburg than Herndon, Reston, Sterling. - Jimmy --- Michael Jordan wrote: > > Anyone on the list commute to DC from Leesburg daily via the toll > > road? > > The Greenway's quick (but expensive) > > The Toll road moves along pretty well (Time Of Day dependent) and > isn't quite as expensive. Unless you're HOV enabled, you will have > to > bail at the Beltway or 123. Traffic northbound on 495 is always at > a > standstill. > > My commute is Sterling to Tyson's > > -- > Michael J. > '86 SRX-6 > '93 GSX1100G > '03 DL1000 > AMA > IBA #3901 > USAF (Ret) > NRA > etc. > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 14:48:31 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] Moto Commuting - Leesburg to DC From: dan@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I'd rethink 15 minutes unless you are traveling at night. Three years ago I was able to make it from Leesburg (house is a mile from the toll road) to Reston in 20 minutes, and that was moving at a good pace. Now... forget it. It takes me about 35-40 on a good day during rush hour to go from Leesburg to Old Ox. Between 8 and 9:30 and 5 and 6:30, the toll road comes to a grinding halt. Traffic is bumper to bumper and its stop and go. The Leesburg of old is no more, now its just as crowded and busy as everything else. Dan > Anyone on the list commute to DC from Leesburg daily via the toll > road? I'm considering moving out that way, but am wondering how the > trip is. I'm in Herndon now, but unfamiliar with commuting from > father west. Current commute is about 45 minutes - am hoping I can > do Leesburg in about an hour? > > - Jimmy > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 15:00:12 -0600 (CST) From: Subject: Re: Re: [dc-cycles] Moto Commuting - Leesburg to DC To: Michael Jordan , "James O'Connor" Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >From: Michael Jordan >Date: Tue Dec 13 13:26:01 CST 2005 >To: James O'Connor >Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] Moto Commuting - Leesburg to DC >> Anyone on the list commute to DC from Leesburg daily via the toll >> road? > >The Greenway's quick (but expensive) > >The Toll road moves along pretty well (Time Of Day dependent) and >isn't quite as expensive. Unless you're HOV enabled, you will have to >bail at the Beltway or 123. Traffic northbound on 495 is always at a >standstill. > >My commute is Sterling to Tyson's > just a heads up that the Greenway fees are supposed to going up substantially. -aki _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 13:43:38 -0800 (PST) From: matthew patton Subject: Re: Re: [dc-cycles] Moto Commuting - Leesburg to DC To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Hmm, rock + hard place. We'll soon find out just how inflexible demand is in response to price. Would be interesting if they did congestion charging. But that would asking too much. Methinks, somebody is feeling real greedy. --- adamme@XXXXXX wrote: > just a heads up that the Greenway fees are supposed to going up > substantially. _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 16:56:34 -0500 From: skip To: matthew patton CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] Moto Commuting - Leesburg to DC they already do "peak time" pricing... if 7 wasn't a worse fuster cluck, I would have take it... maybe once they finish 28 it will be a viable alternative. matthew patton wrote: > > Hmm, rock + hard place. We'll soon find out just how inflexible demand > is in response to price. Would be interesting if they did congestion > charging. But that would asking too much. Methinks, somebody is feeling > real greedy. > > --- adamme@XXXXXX wrote: > > > just a heads up that the Greenway fees are supposed to going up > > substantially. _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Subject: RE: [dc-cycles] Moto Commuting - Leesburg to DC Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 17:10:45 -0500 From: "Dave Blumgart" To: This may not be helpful, but have you ever considered moving towards DC rather than further away? I ride in to Capitol Hill almost every day I've no customer meetings and there's no ice, just pulling on a sweater, leather jacket and unlined gloves, no electrically heated jock straps and whatnot. That's because I live 4.5 miles from the office and anything's doable for 20 minutes or so. PG County inside-the-Beltway neighborhoods like Hyattsville or Mount Rainier are very affordable - well, relatively at least - and while crime and schools are an issue, those problems are hardy exclusive to PGC, and we've negotiated them pretty well over the more than two decades we've lived there. Meanwhile, I saved the equivalent or more than *five months* of my life with my vastly shorter commutes during that time. Just a thought. David B. Current menagerie (and some occasionally run:) '74 R75/6; '99 R1100S; '01 W650; '02 GS500E _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 15:37:51 -0800 (PST) From: "James O'Connor" Subject: RE: [dc-cycles] Moto Commuting - Leesburg to DC To: Dave Blumgart , dc-cycles@XXXXXX I thought about it, but for a variety of reasons don't want to do it. I lived inside the beltway once, for a year. I didn't enjoy it - too many people that would choose a $4 cup of coffee from Starbucks vs. $0.79 from Sheetz, not to generalize. More importantly, both mine and the Mrs' family are in Haymarket and the closer we are to them, the greater the likelihood of babysitters! Commute from Arlington into DC sure was nice though. - Jimmy --- Dave Blumgart wrote: > This may not be helpful, but have you ever considered moving > towards DC > rather than further away? I ride in to Capitol Hill almost every > day > I've no customer meetings and there's no ice, just pulling on a > sweater, > leather jacket and unlined gloves, no electrically heated jock > straps > and whatnot. That's because I live 4.5 miles from the office and > anything's doable for 20 minutes or so. > > PG County inside-the-Beltway neighborhoods like Hyattsville or > Mount > Rainier are very affordable - well, relatively at least - and while > crime and schools are an issue, those problems are hardy exclusive > to > PGC, and we've negotiated them pretty well over the more than two > decades we've lived there. Meanwhile, I saved the equivalent or > more > than *five months* of my life with my vastly shorter commutes > during > that time. > > Just a thought. > > David B. > Current menagerie (and some occasionally run:) > '74 R75/6; '99 R1100S; '01 W650; '02 GS500E > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com