From: dc-cycles-digest-request@XXXXXX (The dc-cycles list administrator) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Errors-To: dc-cycles-digest-request@XXXXXX Subject: dc-cycles digest for 12/02/05 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ __ /-----\ __ 'dc-cycles' is an unmoderated email discussion list (__\/ _____ \/__) about motorcycling in the Washington D.C. area. =( \___/ )= \ ___ / An archive of the dc-cycles list is available at: | / _ \ | http://www.dc-cycles.org/ \ || || / \|| ||/ Subscribe/unsubscribe requests should be sent to: \| |/ dc-cycles-digest-request@XXXXXX |_| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 09:09:37 -0500 From: Aaron Maurer To: DC-Cycles Subject: [dc-cycles] moral of the story... http://media.putfile.com/CRAZY-MOTERCYCLE-CRASH Is the moral of this story: 1) slow down on city streets; 2) car drivers just aren't paying attention; or 3) all of the above. I vote 1), myself. The m/c seemed to be going quite fast, and I didn't see any braking until quite late in the sequence. Anyway, be careful out there. _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 09:15:32 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: "Aaron Maurer" , "DC-Cycles" Subject: [dc-cycles] More Okay, my favorite all around site with a little bit of everything. http://media.kladblog.com/media/200512/almost.wmv http://media.kladblog.com/media/200512/cnncarcrash.wmv http://media.kladblog.com/media/200512/toolate.wmv I am not pulling a for whom the bell tolls here, just posting up what they had on the site. _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 06:21:34 -0800 (PST) From: matthew patton Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] moral of the story... To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX the bike was HAULING! apparently he missed the lesson about looking for hazards at intersections. _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 06:29:31 -0800 (PST) From: "James O'Connor" Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] moral of the story... To: Aaron Maurer , DC-Cycles Bummer. Hope the rider is alright. If I had to pick one of the three options, I pick #1. The bike appeared to be going too fast for the road. Speed limit was likely 25mph, possibly 35mph. It looks like the bike was going much faster than that. However, in my world it is a combination of factors. #1 - the rider was going faster than he/she should on those types of streets. #2 - if the rider chose to travel that fast, he/she would be wise to be extra alert and responsive. #3 - it appears the auto driver sees the bike, albeit too late, at least this is the only just reason I can suggest for why they stopped mid lane like they did. So...if auto sees bike and stops mid lane, then bike should have also seen auto and resonded accordingly, ie slowed very quickly. Judging by the video, the bike was hardly slowing down at all. Thus, if rider had been paying more attention to road, in consideration of the high speeds he/she was traveling, they may have been able to stop or swerve to avoid hitting the auto. In the world of motorcycling, you don't wait for the auto to make the first move. I don't disagree that car drivers just aren't paying attention, but in this case, it looks like the driver may have been - at least partially ;) - Jimmy --- Aaron Maurer wrote: > http://media.putfile.com/CRAZY-MOTERCYCLE-CRASH > > Is the moral of this story: > > 1) slow down on city streets; > > 2) car drivers just aren't paying attention; or > > 3) all of the above. > > I vote 1), myself. The m/c seemed to be going quite fast, and I > didn't see any braking until quite late in the sequence. > > Anyway, be careful out there. > > __________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page! http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 10:22:31 -0500 From: Michael Jordan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] moral of the story... > #3 - it appears the auto driver sees the > bike, albeit too late, at least this is the only just reason I can > suggest for why they stopped mid lane like they did. They're absolutely stupid. A few years ago a person pulled out in front of me in Herndon. I was westbound on Elden and this yoyo pulled out in front of me from Lynn Street (by the old depot). He had fully blocked my lane when he saw me and just stopped dead where he was, looking at me with his mouth open. I came to a stop about 6" from his door, whereupon he took off. Had the asshole kept going, it wouldn't have been that much of a problem. I LOVE my Kisan modulators. -- Michael J. '86 SRX-6 '93 GSX1100G '03 DL1000 AMA IBA #3901 USAF (Ret) NRA etc. _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) From: "Sean Jordan" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: [dc-cycles] moral of the story... Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 10:53:54 -0500 Wow. Look at all of those assholes that drive past without stopping . . . > >http://media.putfile.com/CRAZY-MOTERCYCLE-CRASH _________________________________________________________________ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 11:39:51 -0500 From: Kelly Norton To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] moral of the story... I don't know. You can figure out his speed from the video. The distance from the edge of the video to where he hit the car couldn't be more than 50 ft. It looks like it was between 1 and 2 seconds from the time we see the bike until it crashes into the car. If the distance was 50ft and it took 1 second to go 50ft then his speed would be about 35 mph. I'm sure someone will correct me if my math is wrong :) matthew patton wrote: >the bike was HAULING! apparently he missed the lesson about looking for >hazards at intersections. > > > > _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 12:14:36 -0500 From: Paul Wilson To: Kelly Norton Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] moral of the story... Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX On 12/2/05, Kelly Norton wrote: > I don't know. You can figure out his speed from the video. The distance > from the edge of the video to where he hit the car couldn't be more than > 50 ft. It looks like it was between 1 and 2 seconds from the time we see > the bike until it crashes into the car. If the distance was 50ft and it > took 1 second to go 50ft then his speed would be about 35 mph. > > I'm sure someone will correct me if my math is wrong :) Of course I extend my best wishes to the motorcyclist, but it looks pretty grim. I second Matt: that bike was moving at a good clip. Kelly, that's the shortest "between 1 and 2 seconds" I've ever seen. :) I got around *half* a second from edge of frame to impact on three timings (0.57, 0.47 and 0.42 seconds). Even with a fat finger fudge factor thrown in, my conservative guesstimate is that the bike was going faster than 60 mph. Much, much too fast for an arterial street lined with commercial establishments like filling stations, IMHO. Easy rule of thumb to remember. 90 mph = 132 ft/sec 60 mph = 88 ft/sec 30 mph = 44 ft/sec 15 mph = 22 ft/sec Riders should always be in a position to permit a stop or a swerve. Always be thinking about lane position and escape routes. In high traffic areas full of numbnuts cagers (always a given) you should be travelling at speeds and lane position that allow for evasive manuevers. Gas stations are dangerous areas; the cage pilot was probably more focused on looking for an empty pump, and could have even run out of gas and stalled. Never underestimate the depths of lowest common denominator stupidity that you can encounter out there. -- Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR - 90 KLR _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 09:40:45 -0800 (PST) From: Steven Burrow Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] moral of the story... To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I timed it myself and agree with Paul. He was doing at least 60 and was probably in a 35. Steve 01 YZF __________________________________________ Yahoo! DSL – Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 10:00:11 -0800 (PST) From: matthew patton Subject: RE: [dc-cycles] moral of the story... To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX that's about 25ft distance. Like Paul said, the driver was almost guarenteed to be looking for an open pump (think about it, don't you?) and may have been also taking care to not hit a curb. There's 8 seconds of no traffic coming toward the car before the bike. So in all liklihood if the person saw the bike they had no idea how fast it was closing. The car driver should get a ticket for "failure to yield" and maybe a careless/inattentive driving citation. The MC would well and deserve a speeding ticket. At least it was a sedan so he could fly right on by to decellerate a little less quickly. anyone want to wager what the biker would look like if he hit an SUV/minivan/Hummer? _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 10:37:11 -0800 (PST) From: Jeff Schmidt To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: [dc-cycles] Ickes Vespa Accident I'm a little hazy on how this driver wasn't ticketed for anything by the description in the article. But then again, I've seen how laws are enforced in DC... >From the Post on Wednesday: Seven weeks ago, Democratic adviser Harold Ickes was riding his Vespa on Pennsylvania Avenue near 24th Street when he collided with an oncoming car making a sharp turn in front of him. Initial reports to us described the accident as minor, but it turns out the 66-year-old spent two weeks in the hospital. "I would be dead if I wasn't wearing a helmet," he said yesterday from his home. Ickes doesn't remember anything after the accident; eyewitnesses said he was thrown in the air and crashed down on his right side. No charges have been filed against the driver -- "I think he just didn't see me," Ickes said charitably. He dislocated his hip, emerged from the hospital on crutches and still can't put any weight on his right leg. For the time being he's totally homebound but still consulting for Hillary Clinton's Senate reelection campaign. He predicts he'll be up and moving by Christmas but not necessarily on his scooter. "There's a lot of debate about that in my family," he said. "I hope to." __________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page! http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 13:42:37 -0500 From: Danny Motorcycle To: matthew patton Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] moral of the story... Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I was in the Giant a day or two ago.. there was a slow walking slow talking very elderly lady in there with a big purple bruise around her eye and some sort of bandage over it. Apparently she either lost her car (could not recognize it) or someone stole it. It was scary to think she was actually operating a vehicle. She came to mind thinking about this accident. Yes the guy was speeding, but also I noticed how the car just stopped there. I've had car drivers do that too. idiots. _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 14:16:45 -0500 To: Danny Motorcycle From: "Mike B." Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] moral of the story... Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 01:42 PM 12/2/2005 -0500, Danny Motorcycle wrote: >also I noticed how the car just stopped there. I've had car drivers >do that too. idiots. Not necessarily idiots, but poorly trained and perhaps without the proper attitude to be a safe driver. I once had a GF whose mother was like that...any emergency on the roadway was met with use of the brakes. She was hesitant, a bit fearful, and not at all aggressive, so stopping if anything wasn't normal fit, but it isn't always a good idea. I've been in a number of situations where heavy use of the gas was a much better choice than brakes...leave the scene of the impending accident, rather than being there with less energy when it happens. I've found that one of the best rules to use to stay safe, whatever you are driving or riding, is to never assume the others around you will do the smart thing. In fact, it's often best to assume they will do nothing or exactly the wrong thing. Doing this may sometimes annoy those behind you (as when not assuming that someone will keep going on an acceleration lane so you stop or stay slow longer), but that sure beats an accident (again), and maybe the morons behind you will eventually learn these lessons too, hopefully without bending metal or getting hurt. -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 14:07:41 -0500 To: matthew patton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "Mike B." Subject: RE: [dc-cycles] moral of the story... At 10:00 AM 12/2/2005 -0800, matthew patton wrote: >little less quickly. anyone want to wager what the biker would look >like if he hit an SUV/minivan/Hummer? Why stop there? Why not add full-sized van, bus, delivery truck, pickup (with or without poptop), semi, dumptruck, fire truck, ambulance, Brinks Armored Deliver truck, or combine harvester? SUVs, minivans and Hummers aren't the only larger-than-a-CVCC vehicles on the road. Yes, I've seen a combine harvester on a public highway...more than once...though not in a downtown area. Farmers often run them from one field to another on paved roads. Come around a blind corner too fast in some rural area and you can be in real trouble, as these things are *wide*. -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 11:18:16 -0800 (PST) From: "James O'Connor" Subject: Re: [dc-cycles] moral of the story... To: Danny Motorcycle , matthew patton Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX The car may have been stopped there because the driver froze after seeing the motorcycle speeding towards him/her. I can't say I'd blame someone for momentarily freezing up in an instance like that. A long shoot, but the car could've seen the bike and stopped, hoping to not further confuse the situation - thus "permitting" the bike to take necessary action to avoid collision. But, the car did sit there for longer than one would think. Probably just a case of dumb cager assuming they're the only vehicle on the road vs. an even dumber motorcyclist making the same assumption. Now, what if the moto wasn't speeding? Would it still have happened? Does speeding increase the likelihood of an accident.... ;) Or, maybe if the bike had been going twice as fast, it would have cleared the scene before the car even got there! - Jimmy --- Danny Motorcycle wrote: > I was in the Giant a day or two ago.. there was a slow walking > slow > talking very elderly lady in there with a big purple bruise around > her > eye and some sort of bandage over it. > > Apparently she either lost her car (could not recognize it) or > someone stole it. > > It was scary to think she was actually operating a vehicle. She > came > to mind thinking about this accident. Yes the guy was speeding, but > also I noticed how the car just stopped there. I've had car > drivers > do that too. idiots. > > __________________________________________ Yahoo! DSL – Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 14:22:32 -0500 (EST) From: "Sean Steele" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: [dc-cycles] Seca II fix-up for sale Email me offline if interested. It's a '92, 12k miles, needs some (but not a ton) of work. Willing to sell low if you'll trailer it from its home in Alexandria. Thanks, -- Sean Steele Washington, DC cell: 202-270-8672 _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 18:20:16 -0500 From: Tealkat6@XXXXXX (Steven C. Di Pietro) To: migs@XXXXXX, AACoRiders@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX, GS_Bikes@XXXXXX, LDRider@XXXXXX, SOC-USA@XXXXXX, suzuki-l@XXXXXX X-AOL-Language: english X-Spam-Flag: NO Subject: [dc-cycles] United States Postal Service Unveils 2006 Commemorative Motorcycle Stamps http://www.rubbermag.com/news/0512/051202_01n.html -- Steven C. Di Pietro A Private Process Server covering Anne Arundel County, Md. and the Greater Baltimore region. ................................. AMA ABATE Suzuki Owners Club - USA #100001 1983 Suzuki GS650GL  "Mini-Cade" __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) From: "Stephen" To: "'DC-Cycles'" Subject: RE: [dc-cycles] moral of the story... Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 18:26:11 -0500 ... jump! I'd also estimate that the motorcyclist was doing 50+ mph. At that speed, assume he was looking pretty far down the road and not at the oncoming cars one second away. I guess this because the front of the bike only seems to dive at about 15 feet from the car. The sun was low in the sky and facing him at about 1:30. The oncoming car was white/silver/gray and may have blended into the road a little bit especially since it made a very slow turn in front of the bike. If the rider was wearing a tinted shield he might have had a harder time realizing the car was pulling in front of him. I'm not sure I'd have been doing that speed in those conditions, but that sort of thing can happen at any speed. If I were on that bike, I'd have gone for the brakes and then jumped when I knew the game was over! Sure I might have broken an ankle, but I think odds of survival were better than staying with the bike in that situation. Scoff if you want, but I did it once and I'm convinced that the reaction saved my life when I got side-swiped in '95. Stephen