From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 2 07:10:14 2003 Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 07:08:59 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: Sturgis, SD Every year tens of thousands of bikers gather at Sturgis. What about next year? Unless Janklow gets his leadfoot ass in a serious jail time sling, I'm going to champion a boycott of Sturgis. Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 2 09:12:03 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: Re: Sturgis, SD Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 09:11:25 -0400 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec795b3c9b60c0d90889508ab89a416ff6c4350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c > Every year tens of thousands of bikers gather at Sturgis. What about > next year? Unless Janklow gets his leadfoot ass in a serious jail time > sling, I'm going to champion a boycott of Sturgis. [Dave] Why? The state won't care. IIRC, we tried the same thing with SC for the whole SLED/Spartanburg incident, which similarly, did nothing. It will mostly hurt the businesses which make money there. Janklow's been charged, so the state is at least trying to be fair. So long as the prosecution doesn't blow it, and he gets a fair trial; conviction or no, he didn't "Just get away with it"... Dave From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 2 09:22:08 2003 Subject: Re: A-musing while storms abusing From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 02 Sep 2003 09:17:57 -0400 On Sat, 2003-08-30 at 19:01, Mobacc wrote: > First musing. From recent posts -- > > o Again, though, WEAR your MC gear ALL THE TIME. IT will save you ass! > > o He was wearing a 'stitch that saved his hide (literally). > To be clear on my side as well. I look at these accidents and see what could have been done to avoid/prevent and compare it against my own riding style. I do ride on the right side of the left lane so someone wacking the front of his bike could happen to me. Then I consider what I could have done to avoid it. Two factors was the newness of the biker to the bike and the apparent weaving based on his comment. I wasn't knocking the gear and I was certainly not advocating avoiding wearing gear. Another example is the two bikers out in SD and the politico. Without knowing the driving conditions and my only experience with the eastern side of the state being the flatlands around the freeway, my question would be: how come they didn't see this maniac on their left doing 70mph+? Yes, mitigating factors are corn fields/sunflower fields and time of day. But, wear your gear. Drive defensively. Have eyes in the sides, back and top of your head. They _are_ out to get you :-) Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 2 09:26:11 2003 Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 06:26:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Gear Reports. In the interests of scientific inquiry, I decided to do some real-world testing of my gear last night. You'll all be pleased to hear that it worked just fine, thanks, in a low-speed lowside in a gravel parking lot. 5-15 mph, landed on my front and skidded for a couple of feet. Nothing too dramatic; I thought I would begin my real-world testing with something simple. HJC CL-12 fullface helmet: scrapes across the visor, wet nasty dirt everywhere. Head's fine, although my glasses aren't -- I think that's more from me flinging them into the grass in frustration than from the crash, though. Vanson Cobra (Mk I) with back protector and elbow pads: No damage, but wet nasty dirt everywhere. I've got some very minor bruises and scrapes on my elbows. Teknic Defender boots: No damage, but wet nasty dirt everywhere. Feet feel fine. Joe Rocket Ballistic pants: No damage, but wet nasty dirt everywhere. These pants effing suck, though: the pouches for the kneepads are simply falling apart, even before the crash. The left kneepad has been living in my tankbag for a while now. Knees are barked and hurt a bit. Olympia gloves, can't recall the exact type: Fine. No complaints. Overall, I'm only very mildly banged up, but had the devil's own time getting the bike shiny-side-up (hah! more like muddy-side-up) in the wet gravel. Actually, I managed to get it up only to have it tip over onto the _other_ (left) side. Bah. Bah! I'm stiff and sore today, but I suspect that's mostly from fighting with the bike. As of last night, it wouldn't start (or even turn over), but I was in no mood to poke at it in the stormy darkness. I'll go over today to poke at it and see if I can't get it running. Hope I can, because otherwise I'm without a vehicle. Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 2 09:29:26 2003 Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 09:28:11 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Dave Yates CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Sturgis, SD Dave Yates wrote: > > Every year tens of thousands of bikers gather at Sturgis. What about > > next year? Unless Janklow gets his leadfoot ass in a serious jail time > > sling, I'm going to champion a boycott of Sturgis. > > [Dave] Why? The state won't care. IIRC, we tried the same thing with SC > for the whole SLED/Spartanburg incident, which similarly, did nothing. It > will mostly hurt the businesses which make money there. Janklow's been > charged, so the state is at least trying to be fair. So long as the > prosecution doesn't blow it, and he gets a fair trial; conviction or no, he > didn't "Just get away with it"... > > Dave True. Of course I'll boycott anyway. Rallys aren't my thang. Went to Daytona once = Trailer Week. Jebuss, what a buncha posers. Neked titties galore, but after being flashed seventy-`leven times I'd rather be riding. Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 2 09:38:37 2003 Subject: Re: Gear Reports. From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 02 Sep 2003 09:34:26 -0400 On Tue, 2003-09-02 at 09:26, Fish Flowers wrote: > In the interests of scientific inquiry, I decided to do some real-world > testing of my gear last night. You'll all be pleased to hear that it > worked just fine, thanks, in a low-speed lowside in a gravel parking lot. > 5-15 mph, landed on my front and skidded for a couple of feet. Nothing too > dramatic; I thought I would begin my real-world testing with something > simple. > Glad to see your gear passed the test and that you're ok. How did it happen? > HJC CL-12 fullface helmet: scrapes across the visor, wet nasty dirt > everywhere. Head's fine, although my glasses aren't -- I think that's more > from me flinging them into the grass in frustration than from the crash, > though. > I've been there. For the trip my wife gave me a stone to keep in my pocket to keep me calm in the event of frustration. I think the only time I got frustrated what kept me calm was the realization that I was a few thousand miles from home. > Overall, I'm only very mildly banged up, but had the devil's own time > getting the bike shiny-side-up (hah! more like muddy-side-up) in the wet > gravel. Actually, I managed to get it up only to have it tip over onto the > _other_ (left) side. Bah. Bah! I'm stiff and sore today, but I suspect > that's mostly from fighting with the bike. As of last night, it wouldn't > start (or even turn over), but I was in no mood to poke at it in the > stormy darkness. I'll go over today to poke at it and see if I can't get > it running. Hope I can, because otherwise I'm without a vehicle. > I hope you didn't kick it or anything. Did you sacrifice the chicken this time (you mention scrapes)? > Fish. > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 2 09:39:36 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: "Fish Flowers" , "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: Gear Reports. Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 09:39:00 -0400 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec7921c36bd3d55f912abec8de60178fa3bc350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Our very own gear tester reported: > In the interests of scientific inquiry, I decided to do some real-world > testing of my gear last night. You'll all be pleased to hear that it > worked just fine, thanks, in a low-speed lowside in a gravel parking lot. > 5-15 mph, landed on my front and skidded for a couple of feet. Nothing too > dramatic; I thought I would begin my real-world testing with something > simple. [Dave] Glad you decided to start small ;-) glad you're ok. > > HJC CL-12 fullface helmet: scrapes across the visor, wet nasty dirt > everywhere. Head's fine, although my glasses aren't -- I think that's more > from me flinging them into the grass in frustration than from the crash, > though. > > Vanson Cobra (Mk I) with back protector and elbow pads: No damage, but > wet nasty dirt everywhere. I've got some very minor bruises and scrapes on > my elbows. > > Teknic Defender boots: No damage, but wet nasty dirt everywhere. Feet feel > fine. > > Joe Rocket Ballistic pants: No damage, but wet nasty dirt everywhere. > These pants effing suck, though: the pouches for the kneepads are simply > falling apart, even before the crash. The left kneepad has been living > in my tankbag for a while now. Knees are barked and hurt a bit. > > Olympia gloves, can't recall the exact type: Fine. No complaints. > > Overall, I'm only very mildly banged up, but had the devil's own time > getting the bike shiny-side-up (hah! more like muddy-side-up) in the wet > gravel. Actually, I managed to get it up only to have it tip over onto the > _other_ (left) side. Bah. Bah! I'm stiff and sore today, but I suspect > that's mostly from fighting with the bike. As of last night, it wouldn't > start (or even turn over), but I was in no mood to poke at it in the > stormy darkness. I'll go over today to poke at it and see if I can't get > it running. Hope I can, because otherwise I'm without a vehicle. [Dave] Good luck getting it running. Honestly Fish, we really don't need any more reports on gear durability ;-) get well... Dave From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 2 09:49:09 2003 Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 06:49:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Gear Report. On 2 Sep 2003, Carl Schelin wrote: > How did it happen? Not sure. The gravel was newly wet (it had just begun raining), and this was in a parking lot, so there was probably oil everywhere. Choppy throttle may also have been an issue. Feelin' pretty stupid, too, because I didn't even have to go through that gravel lot, I was just trying to save a couple seconds... and instead the rest of my evening and all of today is shot. Oops. Teach me to be hasty. Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 2 10:25:40 2003 Subject: One Picture From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 02 Sep 2003 10:21:28 -0400 That's right. Rita developed the roll that has a bunch of stuff including this one picture: http://www.schelin.org [geocities.com] I almost have the two weeks of notes transcribed, pictures adjusted and presentation finalized. Just a couple of more days and it'll be ready to view. (I had to work this weekend :-( Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 2 10:49:53 2003 Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 10:44:20 -0400 From: "Steven C. Di Pietro" To: Carl Schelin , DCCycles Subject: Re: A-musing while storms abusing X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out006.verizon.net from [151.196.44.171] at Tue, 2 Sep 2003 09:49:42 -0500 Carl Schelin wrote: > >Another example is the two bikers out in SD and the politico. Without >knowing the driving conditions and my only experience with the eastern >side of the state being the flatlands around the freeway, my question >would be: how come they didn't see this maniac on their left doing >70mph+? Yes, mitigating factors are corn fields/sunflower fields and >time of day. > > Carl, In several articles I read about the incident, they cited the 6 ft. tall corn fields blocked sight lines at the intersection. Steven C. Di Pietro Interim National Director The Suzuki Owners Club -USA 16 W. Jeffrey Street Baltimore Md. 21225-1713 http://www.soc-usa.org 1996 Suzuki Katana 600 2001 Suzuki Marauder 800 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 2 10:58:52 2003 Subject: Re: A-musing while storms abusing From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 02 Sep 2003 10:54:41 -0400 On Tue, 2003-09-02 at 10:44, Steven C. Di Pietro wrote: > Carl Schelin wrote: > > > > >Another example is the two bikers out in SD and the politico. Without > >knowing the driving conditions and my only experience with the eastern > >side of the state being the flatlands around the freeway, my question > >would be: how come they didn't see this maniac on their left doing > >70mph+? Yes, mitigating factors are corn fields/sunflower fields and > >time of day. > > > > > Carl, > In several articles I read about the incident, they cited > the 6 ft. tall corn fields blocked sight lines at the intersection. Thanks. While I read the articles I wasn't thinking about it at the time and later thought they were soybeans. > > Steven C. Di Pietro > Interim National Director > The Suzuki Owners Club -USA Hey, since I have you here :-) The bike I had on my website: 95 GSXR 750. Tim didn't get any calls on it so he's giving it to me in exchange for equity and cash and taking over payments on my truck (sounds weird but it works). If no one wants it, we're going to take it to the Honda dealer in Woodbridge and get Rita's bike. Of course if someone buys it before then it won't break my heart ;-) Website is http://www.schelin.org/personal/forsale if you want to pass it on. Price has dropped since I have no money invested in the paint job. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 2 11:41:56 2003 Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 11:41:39 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: cschelin@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: One Picture X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 Hey Carl, the zipper on your chaps is open. :-) Sorry, couldn't resist. Scooter In a message dated 9/2/2003 10:21:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time, cschelin@XXXXXX writes: > > > That's right. Rita developed the roll that has a bunch of stuff > including this one picture: http://www.schelin.org [geocities.com] > > I almost have the two weeks of notes transcribed, pictures adjusted and > presentation finalized. Just a couple of more days and > it'll be ready to > view. (I had to work this weekend :-( > > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 2 12:08:53 2003 Subject: Re: One Picture From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 02 Sep 2003 12:04:41 -0400 If you look harder you'll see the black electrical tape I was using to hold it together. Look about two-thirds up the shin aligned with the bottom of my thigh. I had two bands around the thigh. It actually rode better and didn't flap. Carl On Tue, 2003-09-02 at 11:41, ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: > Hey Carl, the zipper on your chaps is open. :-) Sorry, couldn't resist. > > Scooter > > In a message dated 9/2/2003 10:21:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time, cschelin@XXXXXX writes: > > > > > > > That's right. Rita developed the roll that has a bunch of stuff > > including this one picture: http://www.schelin.org [geocities.com] > > > > I almost have the two weeks of notes transcribed, pictures adjusted and > > presentation finalized. Just a couple of more days and > > it'll be ready to > > view. (I had to work this weekend :-( > > > > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 2 12:20:49 2003 Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 09:20:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Helmets Save Lives. Cute graphic: http://www.livejournal.com/community/motorcycles/455977.html Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 2 12:24:14 2003 Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 12:24:08 -0400 To: Fish Flowers , DC-Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Gear Reports. At 06:26 AM 9/2/03 -0700, Fish Flowers wrote: >In the interests of scientific inquiry, I decided to do some real-world >testing of my gear last night. You'll all be pleased to hear that it >worked just fine, thanks, in a low-speed lowside in a gravel parking lot. >5-15 mph, landed on my front and skidded for a couple of feet. Nothing too >dramatic; I thought I would begin my real-world testing with something >simple. Very public-spirited of you! Thank you for the information from your real-world testing! (I'm also glad to hear that you are pretty much ok. Hope your bike is too...). >Overall, I'm only very mildly banged up, but had the devil's own time >getting the bike shiny-side-up (hah! more like muddy-side-up) in the wet >gravel. I can imagine... My one-and-only bike mishap with my Honda involved it falling over after impacting a big car at about 2 mph (*almost* got it stopped...). I was so charged up on adrenaline at that point that I just grabbed the bars with my left hand, and the frame under the seat with my right, and stood it back up without really thinking about it. I believe that bike was about 515 lbs, wet...but I was on dry pavement, not wet gravel, and I'm not exactly tiny which helped. :^) > Actually, I managed to get it up only to have it tip over onto the >_other_ (left) side. Bah. Bah! Adrenaline will do that to you. Fine motor control tends to go early, and you are temporarily stronger than you are used to being. It's easy to overshoot things. Not that knowing any of that makes it any less frustrating at the time. >As of last night, it wouldn't >start (or even turn over), but I was in no mood to poke at it in the >stormy darkness. I'll go over today to poke at it and see if I can't get >it running. Hope I can, because otherwise I'm without a vehicle. Hope it's something easy, like a sparkplug wire that came off or a stuck switch or something. -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 2 12:26:47 2003 Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 12:26:36 -0400 To: "William J. Huson" , Dave Yates From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Sturgis, SD Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 09:28 AM 9/2/03 -0400, William J. Huson wrote: >Went to Daytona >once = Trailer Week. Jebuss, what a buncha posers. I've thought about going there. Have to wait to see how much I like long rides first...once I get the bike. Local HD dealer doesn't have any '04 yet, but they are selling them anyway...despite not being able to give a final price yet. Nuts, huh? I'll probably go over this week and get on the list... >Neked titties galore, but >after being flashed seventy-`leven times I'd rather be riding. *How* old did you say you were?? :^) -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 2 12:32:49 2003 Subject: Re: Gear Reports. From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 02 Sep 2003 12:28:31 -0400 On Tue, 2003-09-02 at 12:24, Mike Bartman wrote: > My one-and-only bike mishap with my Honda involved it falling over after > impacting a big car at about 2 mph (*almost* got it stopped...). I was so > charged up on adrenaline at that point that I just grabbed the bars with my > left hand, and the frame under the seat with my right, and stood it back up > without really thinking about it. I believe that bike was about 515 lbs, > wet...but I was on dry pavement, not wet gravel, and I'm not exactly tiny > which helped. :^) > Two years ago I had an FLSTC (Softail Classic; bags, windshield, etc). I'd back it out of the garage onto the sidewalk and then down the driveway next to Rita's car to the street. One morning I cut it a little too close and tried to lean the left signal away from Rita's car only to drop the bike. It was laying semi-sideways with the shiny side facing downhill. So it didn't roll away and hit Rita's car or get dropped again, I lifted it with my right hand holding the handlebar/front brake and left hand under the rear fender. > -- Mike Bartman > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 2 13:30:09 2003 Subject: RE: Gear Reports. Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 13:29:59 -0400 From: "Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services" To: Since everyone is sharing their moments of miscalculation, I will tell you about my 'crash' on 211. The day featured sporratic thunderstorms, but the pavement dried out quickly; I was going up and down the mountain with no problems. It was a nice weekend afternoon, and the bike crowd cleared out when the rain hit earlier in the day, so I had the road all to myself. I usually end my rides at the straightaways. I just make a U turn on the gravel pullover and time the traffic to have as much free space as possible. But that day, I simply wasn't thinking and didn't shed enough speed on the pavement before pulling off. I turned off, and felt the gravel to be a little wet and loose, so just to be on the safe side, I decided to use the extra 5 feet of grass in front of me. No biggie. Unfortunately, the grass hid a big hole and some kind of a log. The second my front wheel fell in the hole, there was no saving it and the bike fell on it's left side. At that point, I was going <5mph. Damage: bent shift lever on my R6. Gear report: I fell on my left elbow and leg, and my Joe Rocket Speedmaster 1 piece kept me protected. I didn't feel a thing! :) 'I-also-crashed-on-211' Witold From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 2 13:42:31 2003 From: To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Sturgis, SD Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 13:42:20 -0400 I think I'm going to ride down to Biketoberfest. Anyone riding down last year or going this year? -aki > > From: Mike Bartman > Date: 2003/09/02 Tue PM 12:26:36 EDT > To: "William J. Huson" , Dave Yates > CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Sturgis, SD > > At 09:28 AM 9/2/03 -0400, William J. Huson wrote: > > >Went to Daytona > >once = Trailer Week. Jebuss, what a buncha posers. > > I've thought about going there. Have to wait to see how much I like long > rides first...once I get the bike. Local HD dealer doesn't have any '04 > yet, but they are selling them anyway...despite not being able to give a > final price yet. Nuts, huh? I'll probably go over this week and get on > the list... > > >Neked titties galore, but > >after being flashed seventy-`leven times I'd rather be riding. > > *How* old did you say you were?? :^) > > -- Mike Bartman > > **************************************************************************** > * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * > * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * > * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * > *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* > * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * > **************************************************************************** > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 2 14:21:30 2003 Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 11:21:17 -0700 (PDT) From: matthew patton Subject: Re: Gear Reports. To: Fish Flowers > Joe Rocket Ballistic pants: No damage, but wet nasty dirt everywhere. > These pants effing suck, though: the pouches for the kneepads are > simply > falling apart, even before the crash. The left kneepad has been > living > in my tankbag for a while now. Knees are barked and hurt a bit. you and me (and lots of others) got the 'old' version. It was a design defect. Send the pants into JR customer service and they'll hook you up with a brand new (and redesigned pair). My new ones are doing the business. > gravel. Actually, I managed to get it up only to have it tip over > onto the > _other_ (left) side. put the kickstand out first... If I hadn't slugged in I could have popped by during lunch. Probably something stupid like a kill switch. ===== * Love, not time, heals all wounds. * No one is perfect until you fall in love with them. And then when they aren't perfect anymore, love makes them perfect again. * Everyone wants to live on top of the mountain, but all the happiness and growth occurs while you're climbing it * You can not forgive unless you first love. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 2 14:51:13 2003 Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 14:50:16 -0400 From: Skip To: Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services , DC Cycles Subject: Re: Gear Reports. Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services wrote: > > Since everyone is sharing their moments of miscalculation [snip] this came off of another list. Glad I couldn't have written it. :~) Ninety Degrees of Separation How Do I Drop Thee . . . Let Me Count the Ways Dropping a motorcycle is not as easy as it looks. I am not talking about low sides, high sides, laying it down, acing the bike, hitting some oil, coolant or black ice, or any other term for getting ass over tea kettle at speed -- anybody can do that. Just get a bike, point it straight down the road, pin the throttle, and wait for the fun when it comes time to turn the damn thing. I am talking specifically about the almost forgotten art of getting the bike to fall over at any speed from 0 to .5 MPH. Most people just don't know how to do this correctly. I mean there are young riders out there on some little ZZX1RY2VF Mach 3 sport bikes that weighs just over 40 pounds, and it never occurs to them to practice dropping and picking them up. And then they wonder why we call them squids. I, on the other hand, have chosen as an adjunct to my motorcycling hobby, to become an expert on the various methods and styles of getting the thing to just fall over. I practice all the time, and have attained the level of Black and Blue Belt. Now, for the sake of those of you who are always on the lookout for riding tips and drills, I will set down some guidelines by which you too can discover the joys of falling down and going boom. First, it is essential to get the right equipment. Since dropping a motorcycle is somewhat counter intuitive, it helps if you get the right bike for the job. Ideally, you want something with a whole bunch of weight carried way up high in the frame. That way, once you let that puppy lean more than 5 or 6 degrees from vertical, the choice is no longer yours. You are committed to going down so you might as well enjoy it. Another important characteristic to factor in is seat height. Eye level is best, or at least high enough so that you can only get two feet down if you are on Pointe. (Note to self: Find out if Alpinestar makes ballet boots.) Finally, it really helps if you are naturally gifted with an inseam of 29 inches or less. If you are tall, what can I say? You must learn to undercome your handicap. The choice of motorcycle is certainly up to you, but I have two personal favorites that I highly recommend. Both are elegantly tall and heavy and can be dropped by almost anybody. The first is a Honda V65 Sabre -- truly a classic )B­ big, tall, heavy, and unstable at a standstill. Just sitting there parked, it seems to call out to you to kick up its side stand and try to walk it forward. I will never forget the first time I was pinned under my Sabre at a gas station. What a glorious feeling of helplessness, mingled with embarrassment, coupled with an inability to breathe, tinged with rising panic. It was a truly sublime. The V65 Sabre is indeed a great starter dropee, making every stop and go an adventure in possible outcomes. Recently, however, I have come to appreciate another bike, the Honda ST 1100, for its lithe delicate beauty at 80 MPH, that masks its unbelievable wallowishness at a walk. Unlike the Sabre, which usually bends or breaks something when it hits the deck, Honda designed the ST with horizontality in mind. It has a well placed engine and body guard on each side that prevents serious damage while still giving you the thrill of waving goodbye to 700 pounds of determined machine. Believe me, that ST can be dropped over and over and it keeps coming back for more. Of course if you feel you must do some damage to the bike to prove your prowess, you can always drop it on a curb. If you play the angle and deflection just right, you can easily destroy $200 worth of mirror and mirror housing. It's your choice. Either way, the ST responds to letting go of it every time. Of course, there are many other examples of good dropping material, and the choice of machine is certainly a personal one. But I would like to remind you that the more expensive and undamaged your bike is when dropped, the more satisfying will be your emotional catharsis. There is almost nothing to compare to dropping a brand new Harley Extra Wide Glide BFD on the way out of the dealer)Bıs lot. Now, once you have mastered the basic stepping-on-oil-foot-slide, and the equally simple gravel-under-the-boot-whoops, you can move onto the more sophisticated drops. Here are a few of my favorites. The first two involve effective use of the dropper's ally, the side stand: Parking the bike on the side stand, facing downhill with the transmission in neutral. Yes, it)Bıs an oldie bordering on cliché, but somehow it manages to remain on the top ten list, year after year. I am sure it brings back memories for many of you. That exquisite first squeak of movement, followed closely by the delicious catching of breath and rise of nausea as we see our brand new (of course it is) motorcycle slowly work its way forward on the side stand and then head for pay-dirt (actually pay-asphalt). Lowering the side stand on a perfectly positioned bump that causes the bike to be too vertical. That way, when you dismount left, the bike has a really good chance of diving to the right when the suspension unloads, or escaping that, at the moment when you gently break the camel's back by removing the weight of your key. Now those two are what I like to call "Watching it Go" drops. Very pleasant to behold, especially since they always seem to happen in slow motion. The following are co-dependent drops where the rider is astride his beloved steed, and both go down together, Mano et Machino: This next one, the last in the side stand series. Leaving the side stand down while backing the bike up. I promise that if you get in the habit of doing this, one of these days you will be fortunate enough to run that stand up an incline or bump and realize that you are about to experience the confluence of going over with your motorcycle. It's sort of like bungee jumping without all those cumbersome rubber bands. If bodily injury is your thing, hold on tight and try to stop the bike from going over. On the other hand if you would rather be able to step away and join your friends in admiring your handiwork, by all means allow yourself to be thrown clear from the soon-to-be-parts-bike. You can then get up, dust yourself off, and start entertaining offers. The next couple of drops have a higher degree of difficulty because you are on your own -- no more side stand to help you out. They both involve critical decision making as to where to stop&drop, or walk&drop the bike. For the stop&drop, there is but one simple rule: Always choose to stop the bike on precipitously sloping terrain. The perfect location would be on a crest, with the ground on both sides of the bike sloping away at an extreme angle. Picture in your mind parking the bike on the edge of a knife. You will know you are in the right place when neither of your feet can touch the ground, and you have the option of choosing either side as ground zero. However, since such perfect terrain is rarely available, you should expect to use the more common terrain that only slopes to one side or the other. My personal favorite, an example of which I recently revisited in Chattanooga, Tennessee, is stopping in the curb lane of a street on which the center line is much higher above sea level than the curb. Sure, I could have leaned it left and kept every thing on the up and up, but imagine the glorious moment of terror I felt as my right foot wildly sought purchase on nonexistent asphalt. Then, after what seemed like an eternity of falling, I was rudely spit out prone upon the sidewalk, while my ST)Bıs body work exploded against the curb. Did I mention that this happened on a busy thoroughfare with oodles of bemused bystanders? Oh, yes. I also recall that as I lay there, I was actually trying to transport my body to another location by the sheer power of wishing it so. I know I would have been successful in beaming up to the Enterprise had I not been brought back from deep space by a policeman asking me if I was okay. Walk&drops most often occur when you return to your bike after having parked it in a challenging location )B­ tight, uneven terrain, where you have to ease the throttle, feather the clutch and waddle walk the bike away from danger. A really good example of this would be parking your cycle right in the middle of a line of customized Harleys at a rough biker hangout. If that)Bıs still not enough of a challenge, you can add the element having to traverse an edge trap at a shallow angle. (NOTE: In this context I am not referring to edge traps as you find them on the road: uneven pavement joints, metal plates, trolley tracks, etc.) At creeping speed, many small items can have the same effect on you and your bike as say a railroad tie at 60 MPH. Always be on the lookout for such things as clods of dirt, seashells, or dead beetles, and be confident that any of these could deflect your front wheel just enough to start the dominoes falling. I know someone who was tripped up by a garden hose and managed to take out three other bikes with him. That hose might as well have been a rattlesnake for all the grief it caused him. The final area of concern which must be considered in expert dropping is your choice of dropping environment. In other words, do you choose to spiral in at a time and place where there are multiple witnesses, like New York City at rush hour, or in some desolate location where no one is around to score your dive? At first glance, you would think that the more populated drop environment would be superior in terms of pure shame, but the isolated drop has the more subtle reward of you having to look at your downed steed for a longer period of time. If it)Bıs real isolated, say like the Mojave desert in August, this type of reward could last a very short lifetime )B­ way too much of a good thing. Of course, you only have to worry about such things if you have made the right choice of bike, i.e. one that is much too heavy to lift up by yourself. (Lifting your fallen bike will be the subject of Part 2, )B³The View From Beneath.²) So, there you have it, your rubber side up, shiny side down primer. If you practice these techniques well, I promise you not only a satisfying new hobby, but a deeper personal relationship with your dealer's parts manager. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 2 19:27:30 2003 Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 16:27:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Sad Bike. Just got back from looking at the bike. She won't start... won't even turn over when I hit the start button, for that matter. The battery works -- lights turn on, brake lights and turn signals work. But there doesn't seem to be spark, or even that "whicka-whicka-whicka" sound I'm so used to from my other bike. Ripped off the headlamp (which was skewed in the frame and yanked over to the side); there's a blue wiring harness in there which doesn't seem to be attached to anything. Black, black-stripe, blue-stripe, green, orange, grey wires. I didn't see a place to connect it to, though... is that how things are supposed to be? I looked around for any other obviously loose connections, but didn't see any. Anyone have any ideas? Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 2 19:48:13 2003 Reply-To: "Jon Strang" From: "Jon Strang" To: "Fish Flowers" Cc: Subject: Re: Sad Bike. Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 19:48:10 -0400 Battery fine + Motor not spinning when depress starter = (a) Starter/Starter solenoid dead (b) No electrons making it to Starter/Starter solenoid. Based on the fact of your crash, I vote for (b). Prolly broken switch, torn wire(s), and/or disconnected connections. I don't think any of the wires or conx that is/were in your headlamp case that got ripped open, but maybe behind it. Might be a bitch to find, will be easy to fix when you find it. --jon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fish Flowers" To: "DC-Cycles" Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 7:27 PM Subject: Sad Bike. > Just got back from looking at the bike. She won't start... won't even turn > over when I hit the start button, for that matter. The battery works -- > lights turn on, brake lights and turn signals work. But there doesn't seem > to be spark, or even that "whicka-whicka-whicka" sound I'm so used to from > my other bike. > > Ripped off the headlamp (which was skewed in the frame and yanked over to > the side); there's a blue wiring harness in there which doesn't seem to be > attached to anything. Black, black-stripe, blue-stripe, green, orange, > grey wires. I didn't see a place to connect it to, though... is that how > things are supposed to be? I looked around for any other obviously loose > connections, but didn't see any. > > Anyone have any ideas? > > Fish. > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 2 21:24:18 2003 From: "lisagoddard" To: Subject: Track day at Summit Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 21:21:46 -0400 Today was a wash out as far as riding at Summit Point. I got in one session but the rain never did let up. I figure with my commute home last Tuesday during the storm I have gotten plenty of time in the saddle during rain. It was nice to see fellow lister Randy Moran. Is anybody heading up to Beaver Run this weekend to run with Sport Bike Track Time? Lisa Goddard www.motorcycleleatherexchange.com '95 VFR '92 FZR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 2 22:43:39 2003 Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 22:42:57 -0400 To: Fish Flowers , DC-Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Sad Bike. At 04:27 PM 9/2/03 -0700, Fish Flowers wrote: >Just got back from looking at the bike. She won't start... won't even turn >over when I hit the start button, for that matter. The battery works -- >lights turn on, brake lights and turn signals work. But there doesn't seem >to be spark, or even that "whicka-whicka-whicka" sound I'm so used to from >my other bike. Sounds like power to the ignition part of the wiring is gone. I'm no bike mechanic, so all I can do is guess along with you until one comes to help... ;^) If it was my bike I'd probably disconnect the battery cables and use a continuity tester (flashlight battery, a bulb and a couple of scrap wires if you don't have a multimeter with that capability) to trace the wiring until I found something that wasn't connected. That's assuming that all the switches seem to be working normally, and the shutoff switch isn't jammed closed by mud or something, and that the battery tests as having good voltage. I might start at the ignition switch, since if that's not hooked up, nothing will happen at all to the starting system. There's probably a starter relay in there somewhere. It would get a signal from the starter button/switch and control major power from the battery to the starter motor. Without that, you won't get any turning over, or even a click. Also the cables to the starter need to be hooked up and unbroken. Some wire might also just have its insulation damaged so it shorts to the frame...the frame is one of the wires in most circuits and if anything contacts it too soon, no juice to what needs power...path of least resistance and all that. Testing wires that run inside the frame or whatever for this sort of thing might be done by disconnecting the ends and checking for continuity between one end and the frame, while jiggling things a little. If the bike has an anti-theft system on it, and it thinks the bike is being stolen, it might cut power to the ignition...maybe some conductive mud got into something, or maybe there's a tilt switch that's stuck? You said there was a lot or gritty stuff around and it was all over you and the bike... That's all the guesses I've got at the moment...I'll wait to see what those who really know what they are doing have to say now. :^) Good luck! -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 07:26:43 2003 Subject: Honda/Suzuki From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 03 Sep 2003 06:45:52 -0400 Well, while reading a recent Rider magazine I came upon a review for the Honda SilverWing and a Suzuki scooter. If you remember last week, I saw a scooter on HOV. This was the Honda SilverWing. Both are 650cc automatic (switchable to manual) with a parking brake and room under the seat for two full faced helmets. The Suzuki is heavier and has a better setup for higher speeds. I remember the SilverWing as a smaller (650?) GoldWing. Trunk, saddlebags and windshield. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 08:51:02 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 08:32:34 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Dan Brown Subject: Re: Honda/Suzuki At 06:45 AM 9/3/2003 -0400, Carl Schelin wrote: >Well, while reading a recent Rider magazine I came upon a review for the >Honda SilverWing and a Suzuki scooter. > >If you remember last week, I saw a scooter on HOV. This was the Honda >SilverWing. Both are 650cc automatic (switchable to manual) with a >parking brake and room under the seat for two full faced helmets. > >The Suzuki is heavier and has a better setup for higher speeds. > >I remember the SilverWing as a smaller (650?) GoldWing. Trunk, >saddlebags and windshield. I had a friend who had one which was 500cc, shaft drive, opposed V twin. Looks like the also made a 650 Honda GL in later years. -- Resist or Serve From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 08:55:56 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 08:54:36 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Dan Brown CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Honda/Suzuki Dan Brown wrote: > At 06:45 AM 9/3/2003 -0400, Carl Schelin wrote: > >Well, while reading a recent Rider magazine I came upon a review for the > >Honda SilverWing and a Suzuki scooter. > > > >If you remember last week, I saw a scooter on HOV. This was the Honda > >SilverWing. Both are 650cc automatic (switchable to manual) with a > >parking brake and room under the seat for two full faced helmets. > > > >The Suzuki is heavier and has a better setup for higher speeds. > > > >I remember the SilverWing as a smaller (650?) GoldWing. Trunk, > >saddlebags and windshield. > > I had a friend who had one which was 500cc, shaft drive, opposed V twin. > Looks like the also made a 650 Honda GL in later years. Methinks that 500 V-Twin engine was also used in the `80 sumpin Honda with the automatic tranny. A rare bike - didn't sell all that great. Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 09:09:01 2003 From: To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Honda/Suzuki Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 9:08:53 -0400 > > From: "William J. Huson" > Date: 2003/09/03 Wed AM 08:54:36 EDT > To: Dan Brown > CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Honda/Suzuki > > Dan Brown wrote: > > > At 06:45 AM 9/3/2003 -0400, Carl Schelin wrote: > > >Well, while reading a recent Rider magazine I came upon a review for the > > >Honda SilverWing and a Suzuki scooter. > > > > > >If you remember last week, I saw a scooter on HOV. This was the Honda > > >SilverWing. Both are 650cc automatic (switchable to manual) with a > > >parking brake and room under the seat for two full faced helmets. > > > > > >The Suzuki is heavier and has a better setup for higher speeds. > > > > > >I remember the SilverWing as a smaller (650?) GoldWing. Trunk, > > >saddlebags and windshield. > > > > I had a friend who had one which was 500cc, shaft drive, opposed V twin. > > Looks like the also made a 650 Honda GL in later years. > > Methinks that 500 V-Twin engine was also used in the `80 sumpin Honda with > the automatic tranny. A rare bike - didn't sell all that great. > > Bill > you mean the Hondamatic? Rare now a days. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 09:34:57 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 09:34:31 EDT Subject: Re: Gear Reports. To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 9/2/2003 1:30:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Witold@XXXXXX writes: > Since everyone is sharing their moments of miscalculation, Years ago working as a salesperson, Rolling used bikes out of the showroom down a ramp into the parking lot. Push the bikes from the left side as usual but hop on sidesaddle as the bike rolls down the ramp and coast out into the lot. Did you know that if you come to a stop with a bike leaning even a _little_ bit right when you are sitting sidesaddle there is not one damn thing you can do to prevent flopping over? Did you? Now you do. Education is a wonderful thing. Loud pipes quell cells. 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 10:34:19 2003 Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 07:34:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Isaac Blanck Subject: S.D. Public Doubts Fair Treatment For Janklow To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX That's the headline from today's WP. Kinda interesting, as from what I've read, I wouldn't have guessed he's getting treatment more or less favorable. The only specific thing in the article was that he was let go on his own recognisance (ie, no bail). That didn't strike me as out of line, given that he's not a flight risk. We'll see what the preliminary hearing turns up later this month. Here's the link. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A15154-2003Sep2.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 10:36:10 2003 Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 10:26:19 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Taking the edge off Car is in the shop this week. Was due for a regular service, and there was an engine light on. Is ending up costing more to fix than I'd been expecting. OTOH, I've ridden both days so far this work week. That, if nothing else, is helping take the edge off of the car repairs. -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 10:42:58 2003 Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 07:42:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Larry Larson Subject: Re: Honda/Suzuki To: Dan Brown , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Dan Brown wrote: > >If you remember last week, I saw a scooter on HOV. This > was the Honda > >SilverWing. Both are 650cc automatic (switchable to > manual) with a > >parking brake and room under the seat for two full faced > helmets. > > > >The Suzuki is heavier and has a better setup for higher > speeds. The Silver Wing is 600cc with an automatic. The Suzuki Burgman comes in 650cc or 400cc versions, both with a CVT and five push-button selectable "speeds". They weigh 487 and 524 pounds, respectively. Prices for both are ridiculous. 8;) -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 10:50:08 2003 Subject: Re: Honda/Suzuki From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 03 Sep 2003 10:45:55 -0400 On Wed, 2003-09-03 at 10:42, Larry Larson wrote: > --- Dan Brown wrote: > > >If you remember last week, I saw a scooter on HOV. This > > was the Honda > > >SilverWing. Both are 650cc automatic (switchable to > > manual) with a > > >parking brake and room under the seat for two full faced > > helmets. > > > > > >The Suzuki is heavier and has a better setup for higher > > speeds. > > The Silver Wing is 600cc with an automatic. The Suzuki > Burgman comes in 650cc or 400cc versions, both with a CVT > and five push-button selectable "speeds". They weigh 487 > and 524 pounds, respectively. > WAN went down so I couldn't search the name of the Suzuki, thanks. Honda seat height is 29.1" and Suzuki is 29.5". > Prices for both are ridiculous. 8;) > Honda: 7,999 Suzuki: 7,699 No argument. > -- Larry > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 11:37:10 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Re: Honda/Suzuki Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 11:39:09 -0400 Was it a V-twin in the Hondamatics, or was it a parallel twin? Mike 96 VFR 88 Hawk 76 CB400F > -----Original Message----- > From: adamme1@XXXXXX [SMTP:adamme1@XXXXXX] > > > > > > From: "William J. Huson" > > > > > > Dan Brown wrote: > > > > > I had a friend who had one which was 500cc, shaft drive, opposed V > twin. > > > Looks like the also made a 650 Honda GL in later years. > > > > Methinks that 500 V-Twin engine was also used in the `80 sumpin Honda > with > > the automatic tranny. A rare bike - didn't sell all that great. > > > > Bill > > > > > you mean the Hondamatic? Rare now a days. > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 11:38:58 2003 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: amber_knox@XXXXXX From: lisagoddard@XXXXXX Subject: MD Inspection, cage Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 15:38:57 GMT Hi, Can anyone recommend a Maryland car inspector in the Upper Marlboro area? Someone with flexible hours would be best. Thanks! Lisa Goddard '95 VFR '92 FZR www.motorcycleleatherexchange.com --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 11:41:04 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 11:41:02 -0400 To: Isaac Blanck , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: S.D. Public Doubts Fair Treatment For Janklow At 07:34 AM 9/3/03 -0700, Isaac Blanck wrote: >That's the headline from today's WP. Kinda >interesting, as from what I've read, I wouldn't have >guessed he's getting treatment more or less favorable. Reports so far indicate that he's being treated like anyone else. Charged appropriately, investigation checking all the usual things. I suspect this result is due to the well-known "survey bias"...i.e. what you get as answers depends on how you ask the questions. If you don't know the questions, you can't make any use of the survey results...particularly if you don't even see the answers, just a secondhand report of the summary. I.e. a headline like that is basically worthless...except to sell newspapers. For instance: Q: Do you think that criminals should be allowed to obtain guns without any sort of governmental controls? A: No! Headline: "Public supports gun control!" Or... Q: Do you think that the government should ignore the Constitution and deprive you of the means to protect yourself and your loved ones from violent criminal attack? A: No! Headline: "Public opposes gun control!" See how that works? If they don't include the questions, you can't evaluate the results at all, so just ignore any survey reports that fail to include the necessary information and just give you their conclusions about it. -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 11:41:05 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 11:34:47 -0400 To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Gear Reports. At 09:34 AM 9/3/03 EDT, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: >In a message dated 9/2/2003 1:30:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >Witold@XXXXXX writes: > >> Since everyone is sharing their moments of miscalculation, > >Years ago working as a salesperson, >Rolling used bikes out of the showroom down a ramp into the parking lot. >Push the bikes from the left side as usual but hop on sidesaddle as the bike >rolls down the ramp and coast out into the lot. That sentence gave me a chill...like the sort you get when you know you are home alone, and the stairs creak... Why would *anyone* do that???? Throw a leg over it or keep walking beside it (but don't tilt it too far towards you either! :^) >Did you know that if you come to a stop with a bike leaning even a _little_ >bit right when you are sitting sidesaddle there is not one damn thing you can >do to prevent flopping over? Well, DUH! I learned that when I was still pedaling my bikes. I thought everyone had. It's not a matter of mass...a 40 lb bike will do it as easily as a 500 lb one. It's a matter of balance, and once that's shot, you're also fighting momentum too. >Education is a wonderful thing. Yes it is, but I've found that the earlier you pay the tuition, the less it costs you. :^) -- Mike "a 40 lb bike doesn't tend to get bent when you drop it like that...ask me how I know..." Bartman -- **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 11:42:36 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 11:42:34 -0400 To: "Daniel H. Brown" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Taking the edge off At 10:26 AM 9/3/03 -0400, Daniel H. Brown wrote: >Car is in the shop this week. Was due for a regular service, and there >was an engine light on. Is ending up costing more to fix than I'd >been expecting. > >OTOH, I've ridden both days so far this work week. That, if nothing >else, is helping take the edge off of the car repairs. Ummm...in what way? Is it that the fun of riding the bike is improving your mood, or that riding to work in the rain is making the cost of getting your car back seem worthwhile? :^) -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 12:13:14 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: Michael Lynch , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Re: Honda/Suzuki Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 12:13:07 -0400 > From: Michael Lynch > > Was it a V-twin in the Hondamatics, or was it a parallel twin? To the best of my recollection, Honda sold two different Hondamatics in the U.S. One was the CM400A parallel twin, the other the CB750A inline 4. I rode the 750 version. It made my old Honda CB350 seem quick . I don't think any of the CX v-twin bikes (CX500, CX650, GL650 Silver Wing) ever had an automatic. The CX650 was the basis for Honda's one and only turbo street bike, however. And a most impressive display of complexity it was, too. Bob Meyer '92 ST1100, "Candy Glory Red", STOC # 1157 '02 919, "Asphalt" If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 12:35:18 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: "'rmeyer9@XXXXXX'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Re: Honda/Suzuki Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 12:37:31 -0400 Ah, I thought I remembered the CM having something to do with Hondamatic. Had a CM400T until I blew a hole through the top of one of the pistons at 85mph. oops. That was a great bike, but could have used lower handlebars. Mike 96 VFR 88 Hawk 76 CB400F > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Meyer [SMTP:rmeyer9@XXXXXX] > > > From: Michael Lynch > > > > > Was it a V-twin in the Hondamatics, or was it a parallel twin? > > To the best of my recollection, Honda sold two different Hondamatics in > the U.S. One was the CM400A parallel twin, the other the CB750A inline > 4. I rode the 750 version. It made my old Honda CB350 seem quick . > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 13:02:53 2003 Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 10:02:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Isaac Blanck Subject: pressure gauge for tires To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Are the gauges for moto tires the same ones as for cage tires, or do I need to buy one specific to motos? thx jib __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 13:13:15 2003 Subject: Re: pressure gauge for tires From: Brian Roach To: Isaac Blanck Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 03 Sep 2003 13:13:07 -0400 On Wed, 2003-09-03 at 13:02, Isaac Blanck wrote: > Are the gauges for moto tires the same ones as for > cage tires, or do I need to buy one specific to motos? > thx jib Same valve stem ... the only problem you may have is clearance depending on what type/size "head" your gauge has on it. Some bikes are a tight fit when it comes to checking air pressure. Moto-specific gages ... A nice liquid-filled gauge will run you $50 and is a nice addition to your toolbox. The smaller "accu-gage" ones are around $35, and also very good as long as you don't drop them / knock them around (they go out of calibration easily). - Roach From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 13:17:03 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 13:16:59 -0400 From: Stephen Miller To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Re: Honda/Suzuki Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX On Wednesday, September 03, 2003, at 12:13PM, Bob Meyer wrote: >The CX650 was the basis for Honda's one and only turbo street bike, however. And a most >impressive display of complexity it was, too. There was also a CX500 Turbo. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 13:27:58 2003 Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 10:27:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Leon Begeman Subject: Re: Honda/Suzuki To: "William J. Huson" , Dan Brown Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Nope, not that I've ever heard of. The 500 V-twin was used for the Turbo bike, an 80's electronic version of what turbo bikes would be now if anyone built them. Hondas two automatic bikes were the 400 cc twin (Hawk) and CB750 and inline 4. The Hawk Hondamatic was slow enough that taking off from a stop I could roll the throttle WFO and make either a left or right turn without having to worry about traction or scraping parts. Leon --- "William J. Huson" wrote: >. > > Methinks that 500 V-Twin engine was also used in the > `80 sumpin Honda with > the automatic tranny. A rare bike - didn't sell all > that great. > > Bill > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 13:48:43 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 13:47:34 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Mike Bartman CC: Isaac Blanck , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: S.D. Public Doubts Fair Treatment For Janklow Mike Bartman wrote: > At 07:34 AM 9/3/03 -0700, Isaac Blanck wrote: > >That's the headline from today's WP. Kinda > >interesting, as from what I've read, I wouldn't have > >guessed he's getting treatment more or less favorable. > > Reports so far indicate that he's being treated like anyone else. Charged > appropriately, investigation checking all the usual things. I suspect this > result is due to the well-known "survey bias"...i.e. what you get as > answers depends on how you ask the questions. If you don't know the > questions, you can't make any use of the survey results...particularly if > you don't even see the answers, just a secondhand report of the summary. > I.e. a headline like that is basically worthless...except to sell newspapers. > > For instance: > > Q: Do you think that criminals should be allowed to obtain guns without any > sort of governmental controls? > > A: No! > > Headline: "Public supports gun control!" > > Or... > > Q: Do you think that the government should ignore the Constitution and > deprive you of the means to protect yourself and your loved ones from > violent criminal attack? > > A: No! > > Headline: "Public opposes gun control!" > > See how that works? If they don't include the questions, you can't > evaluate the results at all, so just ignore any survey reports that fail to > include the necessary information and just give you their conclusions about > it. > > -- Mike Bartman You want to read grossly biased "survey" questions? Try the NRA surveys. Methinks one of my friends put me on the NRA list for a giggle, seeing as how I've never owned a gun. Survey after survey rolls in with the most heavily twisted querys I've ever read. Busting the survey intent didn't work so I finnaly magic markered in HUGE letters - Don't own a gun, never owned a gun, don't want to own gun! Never received another survey. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 13:50:37 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 13:49:23 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Isaac Blanck CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: pressure gauge for tires Isaac Blanck wrote: > Are the gauges for moto tires the same ones as for > cage tires, or do I need to buy one specific to motos? > thx jib > YES next question From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 13:57:42 2003 Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 13:57:29 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Taking the edge off On Wed, 3 Sep 2003, Mike Bartman wrote: > Ummm...in what way? > > Is it that the fun of riding the bike is improving your mood, or that > riding to work in the rain is making the cost of getting your car back seem > worthwhile? :^) Mostly the former. Riding in the rain isn't so bad when you have decent gear and a bike that is well equipped and capable. As certain other riders on the list have noted, the bike probably needed a good wash, anyhow. -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 14:01:36 2003 Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 14:01:28 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: pressure gauge for tires On Wed, 3 Sep 2003, William J. Huson wrote: > Isaac Blanck wrote: > > > Are the gauges for moto tires the same ones as for > > cage tires, or do I need to buy one specific to motos? > > thx jib > > > > YES > > next question What is the general concensus on when to go about changing summer (hot) air out and putting cold (winter) air in? Do you need a specific guage for each? -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 14:07:26 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 14:07:53 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: pressure gauge for tires I prefer to make the change at the equinox. The air seems to be most 'bouncy' and form fitting at that time of the year. At 02:01 PM 9/3/2003, you wrote: >What is the general concensus on when to go about changing summer (hot) air >out and putting cold (winter) air in? Do you need a specific guage for >each? ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org 2000 Durango SLT 4x4 4.7 44k miles For sale $16k http://classifieds.autos.yahoo.com/class/detail.html?cid=automobiles-1061168440-6238393 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 14:09:00 2003 Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 11:08:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: pressure gauge for tires To: "Daniel H. Brown" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Hardly Abelson sells a nice kit for just that. For only $299.99 they will send you both guages (you do need two) and a bottle of 'official HD' air which is pressurized with real Milwaukee air! --- "Daniel H. Brown" wrote: > On Wed, 3 Sep 2003, William J. Huson wrote: > > Isaac Blanck wrote: > > > > > Are the gauges for moto tires the same ones as > for > > > cage tires, or do I need to buy one specific to > motos? > > > thx jib > > > > > > > YES > > > > next question > > What is the general concensus on when to go about > changing summer (hot) air > out and putting cold (winter) air in? Do you need a > specific guage for > each? > > > -- > Dan Brown > brown@XXXXXX > ===== www.deanforamerica.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 14:09:34 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 14:08:02 -0400 From: Tom To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: pressure gauge for tires Daniel H. Brown wrote: Isaac Blanck wrote: >>>Are the gauges for moto tires the same ones as for >>>cage tires, or do I need to buy one specific to motos? >>>thx jib >>> >>> >>> >What is the general concensus on when to go about changing summer (hot) air >out and putting cold (winter) air in? Do you need a specific guage for >each? > Nope, just make sure its synthetic. Tom de '98 VTR > > >-- >Dan Brown >brown@XXXXXX > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 14:22:40 2003 Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 14:22:32 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: pressure gauge for tires On Wed, 3 Sep 2003, Mark Kitchell wrote: > Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 11:08:57 -0700 (PDT) > From: Mark Kitchell > To: "Daniel H. Brown" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: pressure gauge for tires > > Hardly Abelson sells a nice kit for just that. For > only $299.99 they will send you both guages (you do > need two) and a bottle of 'official HD' air which is > pressurized with real Milwaukee air! Are these the same people who have the official kits for replacing the potato on Honda cruisers, when the old one stops making the right sound? -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 14:45:23 2003 Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 14:37:24 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: S.D. Public Doubts Fair Treatment For Janklow To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Mike b opined: >>I suspect this result is due to the well-known "survey >>bias"...i.e. what you get as answers depends on how you ask >>the questions [Dave] That's "push-polling", used to sway survey results in the questioner's desired direction and then influence public opinion with the results. Thus far, I believe Janklow has been treated fairly with the possible exception of being released on his own rep. That would not be done for some poor construction worker. His legal defense won't be cheap, but I expect that there will be a plea bargain... I wouldn't be surprised that it's not a felony plea bargain either. Hopefully I'm wrong about that. Bill H then commented: >You want to read grossly biased "survey" questions? Try the >NRA surveys. Methinks one of my friends put me on the NRA >list for a giggle, seeing as how I've never owned a gun. [Dave] 1st, you are likely referring to a survey or surveys from the NRA-ILA which is a child organization or affiliate of the NRA. The ILA does political activity ( or is supposed to ) for the NRA. Most assuredly, the ILA survey questions are "push poll" in nature. If however, you think NRA-ILA questions are biased, perhaps you should familiarize yourself with odious Violence Policy Center. Regardless of what position you have on the issue, VPC uses as the basis for it's position, essentially 4 pillars from the Supreme Court: Miller ( but only the part about the legality of requiring registration of shotguns less than 18" in barrel length, not the parts which directly address the right to posses them, Presser, Cruikshank, and Dred Scott. This past winter, Gunston Hall ( G. Mason's home ) sponsored "Liberty Lectures" which deals with Constitutional issues. I attended both "USC2A" events, one of which was attended by a VPC lobbyist. The other attendee was Robert Levy - not the Wash. post columnist, the Cato lawyer filing the lawsuit in DC. Levy was prepared with a box of books, case history and VPC correspondence, and showed without doubt that VPC not only sought the abolishment of the USC2A, as well as all State Constitutional Rights concerning arms, but the common-law right to self defense as well. To his credit, the VPC lobbyist was able to point out interesting history since the colonial days, but none of it really clarified anything. >Survey after survey rolls in with the most heavily >twisted querys I've ever read. Busting the survey intent >didn't work so I finnaly magic markered in HUGE letters - >Don't own a gun, never owned a gun, don't want to own gun! >Never received another survey. [Dave] I heard someone say to send back the postage paid envelopes with nothing in them because it costs them money for postage... I don't know how true it is, but keep it in mind for next time ;-) Hopefully, Janklow's status in the community won't affect his treatment throughout the rest of this process, the biker's family deserves at least a fair shake. Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 14:51:30 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 14:50:53 -0400 From: Skip CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: pressure gauge for tires Tom wrote: > > Daniel H. Brown wrote: > Isaac Blanck wrote: > > >>>Are the gauges for moto tires the same ones as for > >>>cage tires, or do I need to buy one specific to motos? > >>>thx jib > >>> > >>> > >>> > >What is the general concensus on when to go about changing summer (hot) air > >out and putting cold (winter) air in? Do you need a specific guage for > >each? > > > > Nope, just make sure its synthetic. That is pure insanity. everyone knowns that synthetic air has smaller molecules, and will leak out of normal tires; additionally, the centripetal force of synthetic air in rotating motorcycle tires prevents counter-steering. it is even worse if your bike is shaft driven. --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 14:58:24 2003 Subject: Odd e-mail patterns today... Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 14:58:13 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: I suspect it is the lingering effects of the virus war, plus the related fire-wall security, but I am getting replies to posts waaay before I see the original postings. Another surreal day in the office... ;-) Robert From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 15:22:02 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 15:16:36 -0400 To: "William J. Huson" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: S.D. Public Doubts Fair Treatment For Janklow Cc: Isaac Blanck , dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 01:47 PM 9/3/03 -0400, William J. Huson wrote: >You want to read grossly biased "survey" questions? Try the NRA surveys. They're no more biased than the anti-gun groups' surveys. Somehow I got on one of their mailing lists and got sent one. The questions I used as examples aren't far from the ones I've seen on the pro- and anti-gun rights groups' questionnaires. That's why I don't worry much about those surveys and stick to the ones that matter. The FBI Uniform Crime Reports for instance...and how they change when gun rights are infringed, and when they aren't. That's why I'm also an NRA member, as well as a GOA member, 2nd Amendment Foundation member and used to be a member of the Law Enforcement Aliance too. The anti-gun rights groups are one of the more dangerous things happening in politics these days....but if you want to discuss the matter, let's go off-list. This is wandering away from rampaging congresscritters murdering bikers, which is at least *close* to being on topic for this list. -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 15:22:05 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 15:20:22 -0400 To: "Daniel H. Brown" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: pressure gauge for tires At 02:01 PM 9/3/03 -0400, Daniel H. Brown wrote: >On Wed, 3 Sep 2003, William J. Huson wrote: >> next question > >What is the general concensus on when to go about changing summer (hot) air >out and putting cold (winter) air in? Do you need a specific guage for >each? You should have a separate gauge for each. The winter (cold) air is denser than summer (hot) air, and a summer gauge will give inaccurate readings if used in winter...usually lower. Just make sure that you flush the air from one season out of your tires completely before you refill them for the next. You don't want a mixture of airs in there. That will result in the pressure changing all the time, and make it really hard to maintain the proper pressure for safe riding. -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 15:35:04 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 15:34:55 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Aki Damme Subject: Re: pressure gauge for tires At 03:20 PM 9/3/2003, Mike Bartman wrote: >At 02:01 PM 9/3/03 -0400, Daniel H. Brown wrote: > >On Wed, 3 Sep 2003, William J. Huson wrote: > > >> next question > > > >What is the general concensus on when to go about changing summer > (hot) air > >out and putting cold (winter) air in? Do you need a specific > guage for > >each? > >You should have a separate gauge for each. The winter (cold) air is >denser >than summer (hot) air, and a summer gauge will give inaccurate >readings if >used in winter...usually lower. > >Just make sure that you flush the air from one season out of your >tires >completely before you refill them for the next. You don't want a >mixture >of airs in there. That will result in the pressure changing all the >time, >and make it really hard to maintain the proper pressure for safe >riding. > >-- Mike Bartman whoa there nelly. You can't just willy nilly flush that summer air into the atmosphere. You need to take the tire to a summer climate, like the carribbean before you can release it. Likewise, in the spring, you need to take both tires up into the Andes before you release the winter air. Jeezus..all we need is for the tree huggers to start blaming bikers for global warming. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 15:35:59 2003 Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 15:24:50 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: pressure gauge for tires On Wed, 3 Sep 2003, Skip wrote: > > >>>Are the gauges for moto tires the same ones as for > > >>>cage tires, or do I need to buy one specific to motos? > > >>>thx jib > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >What is the general concensus on when to go about changing summer (hot) air > > >out and putting cold (winter) air in? Do you need a specific guage for > > >each? > > > > > > > Nope, just make sure its synthetic. > > That is pure insanity. > > everyone knowns that synthetic air has smaller molecules, and will leak out of > normal tires; additionally, the centripetal force of synthetic air in rotating > motorcycle tires prevents counter-steering. it is even worse if your bike is > shaft driven. The shaft drive thing only applies to older model bikes which didn't have the synthetic compatable polyethylene anti-spin spline dampers installed. While we're having this technical discussion, has everyone checked their blinker fluid lately? I'm a bit behind on my regular maintenance, but have a new bottle on order from JC Whitless. They had a great deal going on the DOT69 stuff, which I tried out down to Colemans Powerspurts, before ordering mail order. -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 15:47:44 2003 Reply-To: From: "Jim McGonigle" To: Subject: Helmet X-Ray Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 15:47:15 -0400 Well I had a little incident at the California Superbike School @ VIR yesterday. Lowsided at a decent speed, tumbled a few times and hit the helmet once. Not bad, but some scratches although I'm not sure I could judge how hard it hit. How do I get the helmet xrayed to make sure the internal structure is still ok? Its an Arai. I checked the web site, but no info. Thanks, -Jim From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 15:52:24 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 15:50:50 -0400 From: Tom To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: pressure gauge for tires Skip wrote: >Tom wrote: > > >>Daniel H. Brown wrote: >>Isaac Blanck wrote: >> >> >> >>>>>Are the gauges for moto tires the same ones as for >>>>>cage tires, or do I need to buy one specific to motos? >>>>>thx jib >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>What is the general concensus on when to go about changing summer (hot) air >>>out and putting cold (winter) air in? Do you need a specific guage for >>>each? >>> >>> >>> >>Nope, just make sure its synthetic. >> >> > >That is pure insanity. > >everyone knowns that synthetic air has smaller molecules, and will leak out of >normal tires; additionally, the centripetal force of synthetic air in rotating >motorcycle tires prevents counter-steering. it is even worse if your bike is >shaft driven. > > Now wait a minute, this is only true with bias-ply. Tubes and radials work just fine. BUT you gotta use Mobile 1's stuff. I will agree tho... everything worse on a 'shaftie'. Tom de '98 VTR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 15:58:15 2003 Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 15:58:03 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Erick Singley Subject: Re: pressure gauge for tires >While we're having this technical discussion, has everyone checked their >blinker fluid lately? I'm a bit behind on my regular maintenance, but have >a new bottle on order from JC Whitless. They had a great deal going on the >DOT69 stuff, which I tried out down to Colemans Powerspurts, before >ordering mail order. > >-- >Dan Brown >brown@XXXXXX http://www.kalecoauto.com/fluids.htm check out the rest of their site for more deals! These folk sell synthetic blinker fluid, muffler bearing, etc also! http://www.mufflerbearings.com/products.htm Erick 74' CB-750 K4 OB real MC comment - OK. I put in my throttle cable and did all the adjustments. Oh! Is *that* what my throttle should feel like? Wow! Got rid of that pesky extra play and it's much nicer. Of course my *new* problem is bad warm starts. It needs to cool down before the engine will kick over again (the starter is working as it should, battery seems ok). This weekend, I'll replace the inline fuel filter (on a general 'it's old, and cheap to replace' principle), the points -- which involves looking at the timing, and then hope I don't need to replace the ignition coil. (hot coil, less efficient for starting?) In addition to my repair manual, I saw - http://wabisabi.swarthmore.edu:9673/library/Engine/Ignition From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 16:05:44 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 16:05:31 -0400 From: "Judy La Follette" To: , Subject: Re: Helmet X-Ray I just sent my Arai helmet back to Arai about a month ago. Call them first. (610) 837-4210. They will give you an "RGA" (I forget what the initial stand for) number to include with your return of the helmet. They will ask you what happen to the helmet, and then after it arrives they will check it out. They asked me to send it in the original box (along with the soft bag that it came in) and pack the box in another box with newspaper. The extra box is so that if they use a knife to open the box up, they do not cut into your helmet. I sent it to: Arai Helmet 5921 Colony Drive Bethlehem, PA 18017 RGA ###### I believe they got it on a Saturday, and it was returned to me on a Wednesday. Hope this helps! Judy >>> "Jim McGonigle" 09/03/03 03:47PM >>> Well I had a little incident at the California Superbike School @ VIR yesterday. Lowsided at a decent speed, tumbled a few times and hit the helmet once. Not bad, but some scratches although I'm not sure I could judge how hard it hit. How do I get the helmet xrayed to make sure the internal structure is still ok? Its an Arai. I checked the web site, but no info. Thanks, -Jim From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 16:08:08 2003 Subject: Re: Helmet X-Ray (arai info) From: Brian Roach To: jmcgonigle@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 03 Sep 2003 16:08:00 -0400 On Wed, 2003-09-03 at 15:47, Jim McGonigle wrote: > Well I had a little incident at the California Superbike School @ VIR > yesterday. Lowsided at a decent speed, tumbled a few times and hit the > helmet once. Not bad, but some scratches although I'm not sure I could > judge how hard it hit. How do I get the helmet xrayed to make sure the > internal structure is still ok? Its an Arai. I checked the web site, but > no info. Jim - I've sent out a couple Arai's for inspection after racing crashes. They are usually very quick on turn around - here's the info. You may want to call the number at the end and double-check everything as I haven't sent them one in a while. 1. Include $10 check (for return shipping). 2. Short letter describing the incident dynamics (fell of a bike going 60mph. Saw Elivs, Jesus, and the HVM, etc). In addition, state that you would like some kind of letter/statement that says that the helmet was inspected on and helmet is . Also state that you want the helmet back regardless (well, at least I do). 3. On the shipping box, write "URGENT/INSPECTION" 4. Ship to: ARAI Tech 5921 Colony Dr. Bethlehem, PA 18017 5. Questions? tel: (610) 837-4210 - Roach From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 16:43:38 2003 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: summit point sept 5-7 Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 16:31:49 -0400 Is anybody going to the CCS races this weekend? I was going to try to go Sunday. I haven't made it to the track yet. Any advice on what time to go, anything to take, to expect? Thanks, Rich '02 SVS _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8: Get 6 months for $9.95/month http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 17:33:37 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 17:23:42 -0400 To: , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Helmet X-Ray At 03:47 PM 9/3/03 -0400, Jim McGonigle wrote: >yesterday. Lowsided at a decent speed, tumbled a few times and hit the >helmet once. Not bad, but some scratches although I'm not sure I could >judge how hard it hit. How do I get the helmet xrayed to make sure the >internal structure is still ok? Its an Arai. I checked the web site, but >no info. I don't know that an Xray will show the status of Styrofoam... I'd assume that the helmet has done what you bought it for, and get another just like it, and put that one on the shelf to show that the things work. After all, what's your head worth to you? Why be cheap? -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 17:33:37 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 17:31:47 -0400 To: Erick Singley , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: pressure gauge for tires At 03:58 PM 9/3/03 -0400, Erick Singley wrote: >Of course my >*new* problem is bad warm starts. It needs to cool down before the >engine will kick over again (the starter is working as it should, >battery seems ok). Does your bike have compression releases? If so, make sure they are working properly. A hot engine can heat the air in the cylinders during turnover after the valves close and provide too much resistance for a weak starter to overcome...especially if the bike was designed with compression release and it isn't working. Might also have something to do with flooding the carb or intake system. My old Yamaha XT550 started easily when cold (manual compression release), but if I shut it down for more than a minute or two I had to wait at least half an hour to get it going again. Found that out at a gas station once... After wearing myself out trying to kickstart that thing when it was hot and had been off more than the magical couple of minutes I decided to try kicking it over with the petcock off. A few kicks later it fired right up! I turned on the gas and off I went. Worked every time too. Stop for more than a couple of minutes, you shut off the gas and leave it off until you kick it a couple of times, then on and it started and ran normally. >This weekend, I'll replace the inline fuel filter >(on a general 'it's old, and cheap to replace' principle), the points >-- which involves looking at the timing, and then hope I don't need >to replace the ignition coil. (hot coil, less efficient for >starting?) You said it wouldn't kick over...that's a starter problem or something electrical or maybe the compression thing...depending on the exact symptoms. If it turns over but won't "catch", that's different...and the things you mention are worth looking at. -- Mike B. (still not a mechanic and just guessing based on general, and possibly flawed, understanding) **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 17:39:18 2003 Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 17:53:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Helmet X-Ray On Wed, 3 Sep 2003, Mike Bartman wrote: > I don't know that an Xray will show the status of Styrofoam... > > I'd assume that the helmet has done what you bought it for, and get another > just like it, and put that one on the shelf to show that the things work. > > After all, what's your head worth to you? Why be cheap? > > -- Mike B. If you're going to respond to every single message, at least make it constructive, Mike. Arai and other manufacturers offer inspections of helmets that have been 'tested' in the real world ;-) Jim's get off didn't involve significant head impact, but he's wants to be safe and get the helmet examined by the manufacturer rather than just throwing away the money on a new one. Makes sense to me. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 18:02:47 2003 From: "Laura Roach" To: "rich hall" , Subject: Re: summit point sept 5-7 Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 18:03:06 -0400 > Is anybody going to the CCS races this weekend? I was going to try to go > Sunday. I haven't made it to the track yet. Any advice on what time to go, > anything to take, to expect? > Thanks, > Rich '02 SVS Rich: we'll be there this weekend. Sunday will definitely be a great day for a racing. Racing starts pretty early on Sunday because it's a full day of racing...qualifying is at 9, 11 is the stunt squids, after that more qualifying, and racing starts at Noon. If you meet us in our pit, we'll give you the low-down on the track, good places to watch, etc. We have a 31' ft. Mirada RV with 30-day tags on it. Stop by and say hi to Brian and I. Laura From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 18:08:03 2003 Subject: Re: Helmet X-Ray From: Brian Roach To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 03 Sep 2003 18:07:53 -0400 On Wed, 2003-09-03 at 17:23, Mike Bartman wrote: > After all, what's your head worth to you? Why be cheap? My head is worth sending the helmet back to the manufacturer, and having them either certify it as safe, or telling me I should buy a new one. My head is smart enough to do this, instead of throwing away money and a perfectly good helmet should the manufacturer tell me there was nothing wrong with it :) After you scratch up a couple $400 helmets while racing (ok, how about 5 in 5 years ... ), you learn to send them back and see what Arai/Shoei/etc has to say. Depending on the angle of impact, force, etc ... many times the helmet is perfectly fine and does not need to be replaced. - Roach From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 19:22:18 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 19:22:22 -0400 To: Brian Roach , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Helmet X-Ray At 06:07 PM 9/3/03 -0400, Brian Roach wrote: >On Wed, 2003-09-03 at 17:23, Mike Bartman wrote: > >> After all, what's your head worth to you? Why be cheap? > >My head is worth sending the helmet back to the manufacturer, and having >them either certify it as safe, or telling me I should buy a new one. If the manufacturer will do that for you free, or cheap, go for it. Do all of them do that, or just Arai? I'll be shopping for a helmet soon, and knowing that might be useful. Most manufacturers seem to suggest replacing helmets every few years anyway (I've heard times between 2 and 4 years) due to enbrittlement of plastics, accumulated crush damage from minor bumps, wear of straps and other parts, and general decay that could weaken it enough to matter. Helmets should be considered expendable (though not disposable) items...i.e. they aren't "buy once, wear forever" items. Depending on how old it is, it might be worth replacing anyway and skip the effort of returning it for inspection. Oh, and what I said about Xrays is probably valid...but if anyone knows how they verify internal structure that would be interesting to know. I suspect they use sound...something like a simple sonograms. If the sound transmission time and pattern isn't what it should be, the crush was too much and it's no good...but that's just a guess. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 19:32:59 2003 Subject: FYI - Current DC Road Test Report Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 19:32:46 -0400 From: "Morrison, Brian" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX X-WSS-ID: 1348A595333181-01-01 Took the DC motorcycle road test today. I scheduled the appointment around July 9 on the DC DMV web site - today was the first available date. For the record, there is no place to select MC/car - you just sign up for a test in general. Turns out, they DO administer motorcycle tests in serious rain. To get there, go out RI Ave past Home Depot and turn rt on Brentwood, or go out NY and exit on Brentwood on rt. It's at the corner of Brentwood and 13th NE. Went to Brentwood lot where they do the tests for apointment at 0830. Did not have to wait more than 5 minutes for the test. All I did was two figure eights, and two "imaginary stop sign" stops, about 50 yards away - still in first gear. No emergency stops or swerves or anything like that. You have to turn around for the second stop, but I don't think that the turning around is part of the test. The figure eights can be as long as you want, and the width of 13th st near where it intersects with Brentwood - pretty wide. There was only one car parked on 13th; not sure if that is always the case. Conceivably there are other tests, but I don't think so; I suspect it depends in part on the mood of the examiner. Whole thing took about 2 minutes, then 10 minutes inside to get the license. They were about as sunny as I have come to expect from DC DMV employees. They wanted to see my inspection sticker, registration and POI (to which the lady said "This doesn't identify your bike. I said "Yes it does." I think maybe she just thought there could not possibly be a bike called a 1975 R75/6. She's got a point, really). They also wanted to see my learner's permit AND my car license. Not sure what would have happened if I didn't have a car license. Then you get one license with the MC endorsement. All told, then, to get a license and registered bike in DC involves four trips - 1. go to dmv for permit and temp tags; 2. go get inspected; 3. go get hard tags; 4. go take test and get license. All told, probably about 5 hours of lifetime I'll never ever get back, not counting my one false start where I lacked my title when I was getting the hard tags. Brian ------------------------------------------------------------ NOTICE: This message is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by reply or by telephone (call us collect at (202) 434-5000) and immediately delete this message and all its attachments. ============================================================ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 20:38:26 2003 Subject: Re: Helmet X-Ray From: Brian Roach To: Mike Bartman Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 03 Sep 2003 20:38:17 -0400 On Wed, 2003-09-03 at 19:22, Mike Bartman wrote: > If the manufacturer will do that for you free, or cheap, go for it. Do all > of them do that, or just Arai? I'll be shopping for a helmet soon, and > knowing that might be useful. Arai and Shoei both offer free post-crash inspection and re-certification. They charge a minimal fee ($10 for Arai, not sure for Shoei but I know it isn't much) for shipping and handling. It's a good deal. As a racer, they (Arai) provided me with a certificate to take to tech inspection should there be any questions (the paint on the helmet was scraped, but the shell wasn't damaged). I'm not sure as to what equipment they use, but I don't think they'd send you a helmet back with a bill of good health without having a very accurate way to test it, especially here in the US where liability lawsuits are becoming a hobby for some people. - Roach From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 23:29:17 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 23:29:11 -0400 To: Brian Roach From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Helmet X-Ray Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 08:38 PM 9/3/03 -0400, Brian Roach wrote: >On Wed, 2003-09-03 at 19:22, Mike Bartman wrote: > >> If the manufacturer will do that for you free, or cheap, go for it. Do all >> of them do that, or just Arai? I'll be shopping for a helmet soon, and >> knowing that might be useful. > >Arai and Shoei both offer free post-crash inspection and >re-certification. They charge a minimal fee ($10 for Arai, not sure for >Shoei but I know it isn't much) for shipping and handling. > >It's a good deal. I agree, it's a great deal. Shoei supposedly just came out with a helmet that might fit me...it's not a "round head" one like most of their line, it's a bit more oval. I don't know about Arai, but I'll find out. Companies that provide good service like that deserve more customers! :^) >I'm not sure as to what equipment they use, but I don't think they'd >send you a helmet back with a bill of good health without having a very >accurate way to test it, especially here in the US where liability >lawsuits are becoming a hobby for some people. Yep, if they are willing to put it in writing, they are sure. Just curious about the technology. Sound probes are most likely as they don't damage anything and are relatively simple to automate in a production environment like that. Probably use the same tools they use for QA on the production line. I suspect they get something out of the deal too...they get to see what happens to their gear in real-world crashes. Maybe the helmets that fail are looked over by someone from engineering to see if they can learn anything for future designs...or at least logged as to what part failed so they know where they need to work on it for the future. Data like that should be valuable to them. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 07:21:22 2003 Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 07:20:06 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Mike Bartman CC: Brian Roach , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Helmet X-Ray Mike Bartman wrote: > I agree, it's a great deal. Shoei supposedly just came out with a helmet > that might fit me...it's not a "round head" one like most of their line, > it's a bit more oval. I don't know about Arai, but I'll find out. > Companies that provide good service like that deserve more customers! :^) > > >I'm not sure as to what equipment they use, but I don't think they'd > >send you a helmet back with a bill of good health without having a very > >accurate way to test it, especially here in the US where liability > >lawsuits are becoming a hobby for some people. > > Yep, if they are willing to put it in writing, they are sure. Just curious > about the technology. Sound probes are most likely as they don't damage > anything and are relatively simple to automate in a production environment > like that. Probably use the same tools they use for QA on the production > line. > > I suspect they get something out of the deal too...they get to see what > happens to their gear in real-world crashes. Maybe the helmets that fail > are looked over by someone from engineering to see if they can learn > anything for future designs...or at least logged as to what part failed so > they know where they need to work on it for the future. Data like that > should be valuable to them. > > -- Mike B. I've been told that helmet companies offer the service for exactly that reason, to examine damage with a goal of improving the product. X-ray is the basic tool to scopes out the shell for integrity. The foam shock liner can be examined by hand/eye, any visible crushing would indicate replacement. I have a 3/4 Shoei on the shelf, no need to send that one back. I was launched over a Crown Vic geekermobile, the ol' failure to yield left turn in front of me. When I hit the pavement, headfirst, I heard the fiberglass/kevler shell crunching. I saved it as a reminder - search/evaluate/execute, and always wear a helmet. Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 07:28:59 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 07:28:52 EDT Subject: Re: Cage shit: was (Taking the edge off ) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 9/3/2003 10:36:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time, brown@XXXXXX writes: > there > was an engine light on. FYI The engine light in cars is set by the _Feds_ to come on automatically at 80,000mi. 100,000mi. and as I recall every 20,000mi. after that. There is _nothing_ wrong with your car. The Bureaucraps in the district want you to panic and rush to your dealer where they are supposed to change your PCV valve and a couple of other _easy_ _cheap_ EPA type things. Then they flip a _hidden_ switch to turn the light off and reset it for the next time. No paranoia here, the switch in my wifes car is behind the drivers side speaker grill just above the speaker. Flip it from one position to the other _Magic!_ the light goes out (Shop manuals are a wonderful thing.) I would love to know how much dealers rip people off for to do this switch flip. "Oh you need a new engine, and a new framis, and flinderflocker, that will be a jillion dollars." Do not get me wrong the engine check light does have legitimate reasons to come on but when it comes on at even 20,000mi. intervals _there_is_nothing_ wrong_with_your_car_. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 07:34:28 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 07:34:15 EDT Subject: Re: Gear Reports. To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 9/3/2003 11:41:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time, omni@XXXXXX writes: > Why would *anyone* do that???? Throw a leg over it or keep walking beside > it (but don't tilt it too far towards you either! :^) > Lots of bikes to move, a long distance to walk back and forth in the heat of Las Vegas. Did this _hundreds_ of times with only one mishap, but that was a doozy. We all did it, and I continued to do it, it was/is no big deal (and did no damage.) John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 07:34:44 2003 Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 07:49:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Cage shit: was (Taking the edge off ) On Thu, 4 Sep 2003 PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > FYI The engine light in cars is set by the _Feds_ to come on automatically at > 80,000mi. 100,000mi. and as I recall every 20,000mi. after that. What kind of car, John? I do a *lot* of work on cars, including programming ECMs and a have never seen or heard of such a thing. There is nothing like this on any of my cars or any of the cars that I've programmed/repaired. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 07:38:38 2003 Reply-To: From: "Jim McGonigle" To: Subject: RE: Helmet X-Ray (arai info) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 07:38:37 -0400 Thanks Judy and Brian. I'll be calling them today. > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Roach [mailto:roach@XXXXXX] > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 4:08 PM > To: jmcgonigle@XXXXXX > Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Helmet X-Ray (arai info) > > > On Wed, 2003-09-03 at 15:47, Jim McGonigle wrote: > > Well I had a little incident at the California Superbike > School @ VIR > > yesterday. Lowsided at a decent speed, tumbled a few times > and hit the > > helmet once. Not bad, but some scratches although I'm not > sure I could > > judge how hard it hit. How do I get the helmet xrayed to > make sure the > > internal structure is still ok? Its an Arai. I checked the > web site, but > > no info. > > Jim - > > I've sent out a couple Arai's for inspection after racing > crashes. They > are usually very quick on turn around - here's the info. You > may want to > call the number at the end and double-check everything as I > haven't sent > them one in a while. > > 1. Include $10 check (for return shipping). > > 2. Short letter describing the incident dynamics (fell of a bike going > 60mph. Saw Elivs, Jesus, and the HVM, etc). In addition, > state that you > would like some kind of letter/statement that says that the helmet was > inspected on and helmet is . Also state > that you want > the helmet back regardless (well, at least I do). > > 3. On the shipping box, write "URGENT/INSPECTION" > > 4. Ship to: > > ARAI Tech > 5921 Colony Dr. > Bethlehem, PA 18017 > > 5. Questions? tel: (610) 837-4210 > > - Roach > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 07:50:23 2003 Subject: Re: Cage shit: was (Taking the edge off ) From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 04 Sep 2003 07:46:11 -0400 On Thu, 2003-09-04 at 07:49, Wayne Edelen wrote: > On Thu, 4 Sep 2003 PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > > > FYI The engine light in cars is set by the _Feds_ to come on automatically at > > 80,000mi. 100,000mi. and as I recall every 20,000mi. after that. > > What kind of car, John? I do a *lot* of work on cars, including > programming ECMs and a have never seen or heard of such a thing. There is > nothing like this on any of my cars or any of the cars that I've > programmed/repaired. > It did it on my 87 300ZX at (maybe 80,000, I don't remember), 100,000 and 120,000 and the Ford Fairmont my ex-wife had. I don't know about the hidden switch though. > -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 07:56:11 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 07:56:01 EDT Subject: Re: Cage shit: was (Taking the edge off ) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 9/4/2003 7:35:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time, wayne@XXXXXX writes: > I do a *lot* of work on cars, including > programming ECMs and a have never seen or heard of such a thing. My wifes car is a Geo, but I _have_ seen it many times myself on others. People know I am a mechanic and often ask about why the light is on, I just ask them "did it come on at 80,000mi.?" the answer is usualy "yes." Hell just ride down the road and look into cars, sometimes I think half of them have that damn light on. As always you do not have to take my word for it, check the shop manual, you will find it. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 08:08:06 2003 Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 08:06:53 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Cage shit: was (Taking the edge off ) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > In a message dated 9/3/2003 10:36:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > brown@XXXXXX writes: > > > there > > was an engine light on. > > FYI The engine light in cars is set by the _Feds_ to come on automatically at > 80,000mi. 100,000mi. and as I recall every 20,000mi. after that. > There is _nothing_ wrong with your car. The Bureaucraps in the district want > you to panic and rush to your dealer where they are supposed to change your > PCV valve and a couple of other _easy_ _cheap_ EPA type things. Then they flip > a _hidden_ switch to turn the light off and reset it for the next time. No > paranoia here, the switch in my wifes car is behind the drivers side speaker > grill just above the speaker. Flip it from one position to the other _Magic!_ the > light goes out (Shop manuals are a wonderful thing.) I would love to know how > much dealers rip people off for to do this switch flip. "Oh you need a new > engine, and a new framis, and flinderflocker, that will be a jillion dollars." > Do not get me wrong the engine check light does have legitimate reasons to > come on but when it comes on at even 20,000mi. intervals _there_is_nothing_ > wrong_with_your_car_. > > John. > PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Yes, both my anchient trucks have displayed the check engine light. Few years back my shotgun passenger, a persnickity woman, noticed the light when I wuz pulling out on the highway. "OHMIGOD," she screechs. "The check engine light is on!" To which I replied, "No prob. I opened the hood the other day and checked -- the engine is still there." She gives me an incredulous expression, so I add, "And it runs fine too." Then I mash the gas and the vans BFE V-8 thunders to WOT and busts the rear tires loose *Scree-eee-eee-eee* Methinks the woman is still in therupy :-) Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 08:23:14 2003 Subject: Cage idiocy - lights Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 08:23:06 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "William J. Huson" , Cc: To add to the thread: I have a new Dodge Dakota, and so far this year I have had it into the shop about eight times for "things related to idiot light coming on." Split vacuum hose, vacuum canister sensor, and some other stuff. Once I took it in because I was hearing an odd noise, that got my rear diff replaced. Anyway, since I was mostly doing this to annoy the service people (if there is anything wrong with it, I want to get it recorded before the warranty runs out, so I make up symptoms whenever I take it in...) I always call to make an appointment. The last time, the young lady on the other end of the line could not get me an appointment any earlier than two weeks later. I said (panicked owner voice); "But my check engine light is on!" She replies; "Well, is it blinking yet? Unless it's blinking on and off, it's safe to continue driving it..." Damn. So now there are idiot lights, and subtleties of idiot light interpretation... LOL - Robert From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 08:32:41 2003 Subject: Re: Cage idiocy - lights From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 04 Sep 2003 08:28:30 -0400 On Thu, 2003-09-04 at 08:23, Verde, Robert wrote: > To add to the thread: I have a new Dodge Dakota, and so far this year I have had it into the shop about eight times for "things related to idiot light coming on." Split vacuum hose, vacuum canister sensor, and some other stuff. Once I took it in because I was hearing an odd noise, that got my rear diff replaced. > > Anyway, since I was mostly doing this to annoy the service people (if there is anything wrong with it, I want to get it recorded before the warranty runs out, so I make up symptoms whenever I take it in...) I always call to make an appointment. The last time, the young lady on the other end of the line could not get me an appointment any earlier than two weeks later. > > I said (panicked owner voice); "But my check engine light is on!" She replies; "Well, is it blinking yet? Unless it's blinking on and off, it's safe to continue driving it..." > > Damn. So now there are idiot lights, and subtleties of idiot light interpretation... LOL > > - Robert > That's the same reason I take the bike in for scheduled maintenance (even if it costs $300!). I took it in for the 10k check (and because of an oil leak in the front rocker cover) in December and during QA they found a warranty problem (wrong size spacer in the timing gear which forced a replacement of the timing chain, gear and spacer) which took a couple of weeks to get repaired. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 08:40:38 2003 From: To: Subject: Re: Cage idiocy - lights Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 8:40:31 -0400 Yeesh... I feel for you. I just got rid of my 99 Durango. I'll never own another Chrysler product again. You think you've got problems now, (and its new!), wait until the warranty runs out and you've got 60k miles on the odo. You ain't seen nothing yet. -aki > > From: "Verde, Robert" > Date: 2003/09/04 Thu AM 08:23:06 EDT > To: "William J. Huson" , > CC: > Subject: Cage idiocy - lights > > To add to the thread: I have a new Dodge Dakota, and so far this year I have had it into the shop about eight times for "things related to idiot light coming on." Split vacuum hose, vacuum canister sensor, and some other stuff. Once I took it in because I was hearing an odd noise, that got my rear diff replaced. > > Anyway, since I was mostly doing this to annoy the service people (if there is anything wrong with it, I want to get it recorded before the warranty runs out, so I make up symptoms whenever I take it in...) I always call to make an appointment. The last time, the young lady on the other end of the line could not get me an appointment any earlier than two weeks later. > > I said (panicked owner voice); "But my check engine light is on!" She replies; "Well, is it blinking yet? Unless it's blinking on and off, it's safe to continue driving it..." > > Damn. So now there are idiot lights, and subtleties of idiot light interpretation... LOL > > - Robert > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 08:50:20 2003 Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 08:50:16 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Cage shit: was (Taking the edge off ) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > >> I do a *lot* of work on cars, including >> programming ECMs and a have never seen or heard of such a thing. [Dave] Ditto. Although, I actively avoid tinkering with the rich programming on the lightning pcm, there are plenty of hacking resources available. > >My wifes car is a Geo, but I _have_ seen it many times >myself on others. [Dave] There's no code I'm aware of in any currently manufactured pcm which sets the MIL (malfunction indicator light) at *any* mileage interval. They will for any checked sensor reading out of range, and on the current models, they're quite sophisticated. Some of the codes can be gotten rid of ( soft codes ) by disconnecting the battery for an hour or so. More serious ones cannot. I'd guesstimate that 95% of the MIL events are completely emissions related and have zero to do with the actual engine performance. Maybe 5 percent could indicate a potential engine issue because the sensor is right and your engine is say... way lean at the O2 sensor. >People know I am a mechanic and often ask about why the >light is on, I just ask them "did it come on at 80,000mi.?" >the answer is usualy "yes." [Dave] There's a published list of non proprietary OBD II codes online, there are none for "mileage". >Hell just ride down the road and look into cars, sometimes I >think half of them have that damn light on. >As always you do not have to take my word for it, check the >shop manual, you will find it. [Dave] I don't know about Virginia, but in MD, they hook an OBD II scanner to the OBD II cars - any codes = automatic failure, so the strategy of leaving the light on won't usually be a good one. Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 08:53:50 2003 Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 05:53:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Sean Steele Subject: Re: FYI - Current DC Road Test Report To: "Morrison, Brian" Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Thanks for the info. That's a great description of the process. I'm about to take the road test this later in the month -- difference for me is I don't have my own bike, so I hope to borrow one. Do I have to prove to the DMV that the bike I'm testing on is my own bike? Also, did you have insurance on your bike before you got soft tags? -Sean --- "Morrison, Brian" wrote: > Took the DC motorcycle road test today. > > I scheduled the appointment around July 9 on the DC > DMV web site - today > was the first available date. For the record, there > is no place to > select MC/car - you just sign up for a test in > general. Turns out, they > DO administer motorcycle tests in serious rain. > > To get there, go out RI Ave past Home Depot and turn > rt on Brentwood, or > go out NY and exit on Brentwood on rt. It's at the > corner of Brentwood > and 13th NE. > > Went to Brentwood lot where they do the tests for > apointment at 0830. > Did not have to wait more than 5 minutes for the > test. > > All I did was two figure eights, and two "imaginary > stop sign" stops, > about 50 yards away - still in first gear. No > emergency stops or > swerves or anything like that. You have to turn > around for the second > stop, but I don't think that the turning around is > part of the test. > > The figure eights can be as long as you want, and > the width of 13th st > near where it intersects with Brentwood - pretty > wide. There was only > one car parked on 13th; not sure if that is always > the case. Conceivably > there are other tests, but I don't think so; I > suspect it depends in > part on the mood of the examiner. > > Whole thing took about 2 minutes, then 10 minutes > inside to get the > license. They were about as sunny as I have come > to expect from DC DMV > employees. > > They wanted to see my inspection sticker, > registration and POI (to which > the lady said "This doesn't identify your bike. I > said "Yes it does." > I think maybe she just thought there could not > possibly be a bike called > a 1975 R75/6. She's got a point, really). They > also wanted to see my > learner's permit AND my car license. Not sure what > would have happened > if I didn't have a car license. Then you get one > license with the MC > endorsement. > > All told, then, to get a license and registered bike > in DC involves four > trips - 1. go to dmv for permit and temp tags; 2. go > get inspected; 3. > go get hard tags; 4. go take test and get license. > All told, probably > about 5 hours of lifetime I'll never ever get back, > not counting my one > false start where I lacked my title when I was > getting the hard tags. > > Brian __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 09:02:02 2003 Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 06:01:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Isaac Blanck Subject: Re: FYI - Current DC Road Test Report To: "Morrison, Brian" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Well, they've made the test tougher since I took it 2 years ago. I only had to do 1 figure 8. Nothing else. Guess they're moving in the right direction ... jib --- "Morrison, Brian" wrote: > Took the DC motorcycle road test today. > > I scheduled the appointment around July 9 on the DC > DMV web site - today > was the first available date. For the record, there > is no place to > select MC/car - you just sign up for a test in > general. Turns out, they > DO administer motorcycle tests in serious rain. > > To get there, go out RI Ave past Home Depot and turn > rt on Brentwood, or > go out NY and exit on Brentwood on rt. It's at the > corner of Brentwood > and 13th NE. > > Went to Brentwood lot where they do the tests for > apointment at 0830. > Did not have to wait more than 5 minutes for the > test. > > All I did was two figure eights, and two "imaginary > stop sign" stops, > about 50 yards away - still in first gear. No > emergency stops or > swerves or anything like that. You have to turn > around for the second > stop, but I don't think that the turning around is > part of the test. > > The figure eights can be as long as you want, and > the width of 13th st > near where it intersects with Brentwood - pretty > wide. There was only > one car parked on 13th; not sure if that is always > the case. Conceivably > there are other tests, but I don't think so; I > suspect it depends in > part on the mood of the examiner. > > Whole thing took about 2 minutes, then 10 minutes > inside to get the > license. They were about as sunny as I have come > to expect from DC DMV > employees. > > They wanted to see my inspection sticker, > registration and POI (to which > the lady said "This doesn't identify your bike. I > said "Yes it does." > I think maybe she just thought there could not > possibly be a bike called > a 1975 R75/6. She's got a point, really). They > also wanted to see my > learner's permit AND my car license. Not sure what > would have happened > if I didn't have a car license. Then you get one > license with the MC > endorsement. > > All told, then, to get a license and registered bike > in DC involves four > trips - 1. go to dmv for permit and temp tags; 2. go > get inspected; 3. > go get hard tags; 4. go take test and get license. > All told, probably > about 5 hours of lifetime I'll never ever get back, > not counting my one > false start where I lacked my title when I was > getting the hard tags. > > Brian > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > NOTICE: > > This message is intended for the use of the > individual or entity to which it is addressed and > may contain information that is privileged, > confidential and exempt from disclosure under > applicable law. If the reader of this message is not > the intended recipient or the employee or agent > responsible for delivering this message to the > intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any > dissemination, distribution or copying of this > communication is strictly prohibited. If you have > received this communication in error, please notify > us immediately by reply or by telephone (call us > collect at (202) 434-5000) and immediately delete > this message and all its attachments. > > ============================================================ > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 09:32:20 2003 Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 09:32:17 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: good news for off roaders To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >From today's NoVA Journal... Off-road riding facility allowed By ZACK PHILLIPS Journal staff writer After nearly five years, a group of Prince William off- road riding enthusiasts accomplished a first this week: They emerged from a Prince William Board of County Supervisors meeting with the result they wanted. The board on Tuesday unanimously approved a special-use permit allowing a facility for riding off-road motorcycles and all-terrain vehicles on an 108-acre plot of rural land in Nokesville. The action ended a controversy that dates back to 1998, when residents began complaining about riders traversing private property in Triangle. Since then, a group now known as the Family Off-Road Riders of Prince William County has sought a central location for recreational riding. Meanwhile, the board blocked off-road riding at two different sites. On Tuesday, however, supervisors approved the Nokesville site - located between Route 28 and the Norfolk Southern Railroad tracks, along the Fauquier County border - over the strong objections of a group of local residents. The board unanimously agreed that the group followed the correct procedures by incorporating, obtaining insurance, and securing a privately owned site for riding. ``This is exactly what we instructed them to do," said Supervisor Edgar S. Wilbourn, R-Gainesville. ``It serves a purpose for the county and other communities." Though the public hearing was dominated by riding enthusiasts, testifying to the widespread appeal of ATVs and the absence of riding facilities near Prince William County, a number of passionate Nokesville denizens appeared to oppose the permit. Their objections included concerns about pollution, excessive noise and increased traffic. ``My children travel in school buses past this property," said Larry Petropolis. He said a large number of people entering or leaving the site where the entrance is currently proposed will make an already dangerous curve in Route 28 deadly. ``You're only going to kill my family and children. I will hold you personally responsible." The site is 900 feet from the closest residential area, county officials said. Under the permit, which expires in 2008, no more than 60 riders can use the site at one time, all vehicles must be equipped with noise-reduction mufflers and trails crossing drainage ways must have culvert pipes. At the organization's request, supervisors on Tuesday agreed to soften some of the provisions the Prince William Planning Commission attached to the application last month. The board agreed to allow the riders to use the facility on Sundays - along with Mondays, Wednesdays, Fridays and Saturdays, which the Planning Commission had recommended - and extended the permissible close time from 4 p.m. to 6 p.m. The group, which now has about 175 members, formed after the board passed a resolution in 1998 barring off-road vehicles from private or government property without the written permission of the owner. The board subsequently convened a task force to determine if an Independent Hill landfill the group had identified was a suitable site for organized riding. After a year of meetings, the task force could not agree on a recommendation, although it did conclude that Prince William needed an ATV park. Between 4,200 and 5,000 Prince William County residents own such vehicles, according to that April 2000 report. Supervisors later balked at supporting the landfill as an ATV park, and earlier this year went to court to stop a Fairfax County man believed to have been constructing a similar facility at a property near the Manassas National Battlefield Park. Family Off-Road Riders of Prince William County has been using the Nokesville site since 2000, at the invitation of a Manassas businessman who owns the parcels, group president Robert Hetzel said. He declined to name the businessman. The listed owner is Manassas-based Homeland Limited Partnership and Goshen Properties of Virginia Beach, according to the Prince William County planning office. Opponents on Tuesday criticized the group for using the facility without the special-use permit. Republican Supervisor L. Ben Thompson, whose Brentsville District encompasses the site, accepted blame, saying that he told the group it was allowed to use the site as long as members were pursuing a special-use permit. ``We're trying to do the right thing and we'd like to reach out to [opponents] and try to prove to them that we are not going to be polluting or ... whatever else they accused us of," Hetzel said. ``We're just normal people." [Dave] My personal favorite: "You're going to kill me and my children !" what a maroon... Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 09:53:12 2003 Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 09:51:52 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: adamme1@XXXXXX CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Cage idiocy - lights adamme1@XXXXXX wrote: > Yeesh... I feel for you. I just got rid of my 99 Durango. I'll never own another Chrysler product again. You think you've got problems now, (and its new!), wait until the warranty runs out and you've got 60k miles on the odo. > > You ain't seen nothing yet. > > -aki Huh? I'm a Mopar man. `90 van, more'n 115,000 miles. The diff gears were out of spec from the get-go, repaired under warrenty at 18K. Since then, no probs. `89 Dakota 4WD. More'n 100,000 miles. Tranny puked something at 44K, repaired under warrenty. The V-6 engine still doesn't burn a drop of oil. Brakes need work at the moment, and drivetrain is making a few noises, like maybe a worn out U-joint. Turbo `89 Lebaron convertable. 80K. A cracked rear suspension arm was replaced under warrenty when it was brand spanky new. No other problems. Gave it to my son when Milady got her new PT Cruiser. Paint fell off all the above, symptomatic of those years. I lost count of how many Mopars I've owned, more'n a dozen, and the only one that was a PITA was the `73 Grande Coupe Plymouth. Also owned a few GM products, not one of which made it past 40K without major fucking problems which were not covered by the factory. `71 Chevy van. Handled almost as bad as a Ford. Shifter linkage jams galore until I put in a Hurst. `81 Cutlass. Tossed the fade very quickly crap shocks at 17K and the tires which turned to grease in the rain. Valve train went tits up at 30K. Switchs fell apart on a monthly basis. Junk. `83 Z-28 Camaro. Super junk. Slow as mud. Diff fried at 40K, about to go TU at 70K when I traded the piece of crap. Tranny lost syncro about 60K, crunch shift or double clutch. And one cylinder crapped out, making the POS even slower. The 4bbl carb? Sheesh, major junk. Bottom line: Mopar rules! Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 09:53:48 2003 Subject: Re: Cage idiocy - lights From: Brian Roach To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 04 Sep 2003 09:53:40 -0400 On Thu, 2003-09-04 at 08:40, adamme1@XXXXXX wrote: > Yeesh... I feel for you. I just got rid of my 99 Durango. I'll never own > another Chrysler product again. You think you've got problems now, > (and its new!), wait until the warranty runs out and you've got 60k > miles on the odo. > > You ain't seen nothing yet. > > -aki I second this. I kept my '99 Dakota for a grand total of 10 months and 23k miles. Bought it new to have something to tow the race trailer with ... in the shop *every* month for something (including the rear differential). Service was terrible (fair oaks dodge). The '00 Tundra I replaced it with now has almost 80k miles .. Never been in the shop. - Roach PS ... get your front rotors replaced now. They're about to warp if they haven't already. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 10:02:19 2003 From: To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Cage idiocy - lights Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 10:02:11 -0400 > > From: Brian Roach > Date: 2003/09/04 Thu AM 09:53:40 EDT > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Cage idiocy - lights > > On Thu, 2003-09-04 at 08:40, adamme1@XXXXXX wrote: > > Yeesh... I feel for you. I just got rid of my 99 Durango. I'll never own > > another Chrysler product again. You think you've got problems now, > > (and its new!), wait until the warranty runs out and you've got 60k > > miles on the odo. > > > > You ain't seen nothing yet. > > > > -aki > > I second this. I kept my '99 Dakota for a grand total of 10 months and > 23k miles. > > Bought it new to have something to tow the race trailer with ... in the > shop *every* month for something (including the rear differential). > Service was terrible (fair oaks dodge). > > The '00 Tundra I replaced it with now has almost 80k miles .. Never been > in the shop. > > - Roach > > PS ... get your front rotors replaced now. They're about to warp if they > haven't already. Just traded it in for an 03 Exploder XLT. MUCH nicer, better mpg and a better warranty. History of my 99 Durango: 1. Rear a/c never worked properly. Dealer (Fair Oaks Dodge), said "they all work that way". 2. Paint was WAY too soft. A fingernail could take the paint off. 3. At 50k, tranny started acting up, slipping and hesitation. 4. At 60k, tranny fluid started puking in the driveway. 5. Drivers window stopped working at 40k. 6. ABS sensor failed TWICE, (at 25k under warranty, then at 55k not under warranty). 7. ABS CAB module failed, $600, not under warranty. Called Chrysler to ask if this was "normal". Their response? "No sir, I guess you'll buy the extended warranty next time won't you?". 8. OEM Battery died TWICE in two years. Replaced with a Odyssey, no probs after that. 9. PCM failed twice, replaced with Mopar Hi perf PCM, worked fine after that. no thanks...no mo Mopars for me. -aki > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 10:05:13 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: Stephen Miller CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Re: Honda/Suzuki Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 10:05:07 -0400 > From: Stephen Miller > There was also a CX500 Turbo. I had forgotten about that one... Bob Meyer '92 ST1100, "Candy Glory Red", STOC # 1157 '02 919, "Asphalt" If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 10:09:07 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: pressure gauge for tires Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 10:09:00 -0400 > > > > >>>Are the gauges for moto tires the same ones as for > > >>>cage tires, or do I need to buy one specific to motos? > > >>> > > >What is the general concensus on when to go about changing summer (hot) air > > >out and putting cold (winter) air in? Do you need a specific guage for > > >each? > > > > > > > Nope, just make sure its synthetic. > > That is pure insanity. > > everyone knowns that synthetic air has smaller molecules, and will leak out of > normal tires; additionally, the centripetal force of synthetic air in rotating > motorcycle tires prevents counter-steering. it is even worse if your bike is > shaft driven. > You guys are a trip. And I love it! LOL, Bob Meyer '92 ST1100, "Candy Glory Red", STOC # 1157 '02 919, "Asphalt" If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 10:22:41 2003 Reply-To: wayne@XXXXXX From: "wayne@XXXXXX" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Cage shit: was (Taking the edge off ) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 10:22:32 -0400 > Original Message: > ----------------- > From: Dave Yates Dave@XXXXXX > > [Dave] Ditto. Although, I actively avoid tinkering with the > rich programming on the lightning pcm, there are plenty of > hacking resources available. I'm using commercially available tools to read the PCM flash, modify it and reflash it. I have some software that allows me to guesstimate changes to the VE tables for drivability, then I strap the car on a dyno using a wideband sniffer for WOT work :-) > >My wifes car is a Geo, but I _have_ seen it many times > >myself on others. > > [Dave] There's no code I'm aware of in any currently > manufactured pcm which sets the MIL (malfunction indicator > light) at *any* mileage interval. They will for any checked > sensor reading out of range, and on the current models, > they're quite sophisticated. Some of the codes can be gotten > rid of ( soft codes ) by disconnecting the battery for an > hour or so. More serious ones cannot. I'd guesstimate that > 95% of the MIL events are completely emissions related and > have zero to do with the actual engine performance. Maybe 5 > percent could indicate a potential engine issue because the > sensor is right and your engine is say... way lean at the O2 > sensor. My experience exactly, although some cars (like my Z06) have the capability to clear codes from the DIC (driver's information center) on the dash. I've seen newer OBDII cars set the MIL for things as simple as a loose gas cap. > >Hell just ride down the road and look into cars, sometimes I > >think half of them have that damn light on. > >As always you do not have to take my word for it, check the > >shop manual, you will find it. > > [Dave] I don't know about Virginia, but in MD, they hook an > OBD II scanner to the OBD II cars - any codes = automatic > failure, so the strategy of leaving the light on won't > usually be a good one. There are 3 states for OBDII tests in the PCM: pass, fail, not tested. My understanding of the new tests in MD is that 2 or more fails or not tested, even with no MIL, and you fail. I have the capability to disable tests in the PCM (AIR, EGR, CPS misfire detection, O2 sensors, etc), but if you have more than 2 disabled you'll still fail. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 10:30:03 2003 Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 10:29:44 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: Re: Cage idiocy - lights (moto?) At 10:02 AM 9/4/2003, adamme1@XXXXXX wrote: >History of my 99 Durango: History of my 2000 Durango : No problems. That's life. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org 2000 Durango SLT 4x4 4.7 44k miles For sale $16k http://classifieds.autos.yahoo.com/class/detail.html?cid=automobiles-1061168440-6238393 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 10:32:02 2003 Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 10:31:56 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: Cage idiocy - lights At 08:23 AM 9/4/2003, Verde, Robert wrote: >Anyway, since I was mostly doing this to annoy the service people (if >there is anything wrong with it, I want to get it recorded before the >warranty runs out, so I make up symptoms whenever I take it in...) Is it any wonder service departments get frustrated with customers? I wonder how much time they waste trying to find out the imaginary symptom you provide? ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org 2000 Durango SLT 4x4 4.7 44k miles For sale $16k http://classifieds.autos.yahoo.com/class/detail.html?cid=automobiles-1061168440-6238393 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 10:46:35 2003 From: To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Cage idiocy - lights (moto?) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 10:46:28 -0400 No, that's luck. There's a difference. Check out the Durango owners club (www.durangoclub.com) for some interesting posts. > > From: Troutman > Date: 2003/09/04 Thu AM 10:29:44 EDT > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Re: Cage idiocy - lights (moto?) > > At 10:02 AM 9/4/2003, adamme1@XXXXXX wrote: > >History of my 99 Durango: > > History of my 2000 Durango : No problems. > > That's life. > > > > ___________________________________________ > Mike Troutman > http://www.troutman.org/vfr > 1997 Honda VFR 750 > AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ > NMA http://www.motorists.org > > 2000 Durango SLT 4x4 4.7 44k miles For sale $16k > http://classifieds.autos.yahoo.com/class/detail.html?cid=automobiles-1061168440-6238393 > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 10:46:35 2003 Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 10:46:13 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Cage shit: was (Taking the edge off ) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Wayne shared: >I'm using commercially available tools to read the PCM >flash, modify it and reflash it. I have some software that >allows me to guesstimate changes to the VE tables for >drivability, then I strap the car on a dyno using a >wideband sniffer for WOT work :-) [Dave] There are 2 reasons I haven't done any PCM work on the Lightning. 1: I know a Roush engineer who was involved in the powertrain development of the supercharged lightning and cobra. He emailed me painstaking details involved in the reasons behind the programming ( being really rich from the factory ). One good thing about it, in stock configuration, it will run reliably in the coldest day in recorded history in Gnome, Alaska, and the hottest day in Phoenix, AZ... He quoted over 3,000 changes to the PCM programming after the test mules were created... One of the big reasons he said to stay away from the PCM programming was they added extra fuel to cool the combustion chambers for blower use. The blower and stock programming will handle 3-4 more pounds of boost, and a good amount of bolt ons, but when the extra fuel gets yanked, and the timing bumped things get dicey. To check out his assertions, I did a search on f150online & NLOC for blown motors - those who had chips had about an 80% engine failure rate, and all but 2 motors that failed had chips - 1 of those had +8 pounds of boost... > >My experience exactly, although some cars (like my Z06) have >the capability to clear codes from the DIC (driver's >information center) on the dash. >I've seen newer OBDII cars set the MIL for things as simple >as a loose gas cap. [Dave] that's pretty handy. You can clear any MIL code with a code reader... > >There are 3 states for OBDII tests in the PCM: pass, fail, >not tested. My understanding of the new tests in MD is that >2 or more fails or not tested, even with no MIL, and you >fail. I have the capability to disable tests in >the PCM (AIR, EGR, CPS misfire detection, O2 sensors, etc), >but if you have more than 2 disabled you'll still fail. [Dave] Can't you simply program in a "hard" 'passing value' for the scanner to read? Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 10:47:58 2003 Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 10:47:49 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Erick Singley Subject: Re: pressure gauge for tires At 5:31 PM -0400 9/3/03, Mike Bartman wrote: >At 03:58 PM 9/3/03 -0400, Erick Singley wrote: >>Of course my >>*new* problem is bad warm starts. It needs to cool down before the >>engine will kick over again (the starter is working as it should, >>battery seems ok). > >Does your bike have compression releases? If so, make sure they are >working properly. A hot engine can heat the air in the cylinders during >turnover after the valves close and provide too much resistance for a weak >starter to overcome...especially if the bike was designed with compression >release and it isn't working. Um, maybe? I've not messed with such yet, and don't have the service manual with me to check. The web doesn't show much reference to that bike having one... but that doesn't mean much. >Might also have something to do with flooding the carb or intake system. >My old Yamaha XT550 started easily when cold (manual compression release), >but if I shut it down for more than a minute or two I had to wait at least >half an hour to get it going again. Found that out at a gas station once... > >After wearing myself out trying to kickstart that thing when it was hot and >had been off more than the magical couple of minutes I decided to try >kicking it over with the petcock off. A few kicks later it fired right up! > I turned on the gas and off I went. Worked every time too. Stop for more >than a couple of minutes, you shut off the gas and leave it off until you >kick it a couple of times, then on and it started and ran normally. Iiiinteresting. That's something I'll definitely check into. We've only really adjusted the floats on the carbs once and haven't much with too much else,yet. > >This weekend, I'll replace the inline fuel filter >>(on a general 'it's old, and cheap to replace' principle), the points >>-- which involves looking at the timing, and then hope I don't need >>to replace the ignition coil. (hot coil, less efficient for >>starting?) > >You said it wouldn't kick over...that's a starter problem or something >electrical or maybe the compression thing...depending on the exact >symptoms. If it turns over but won't "catch", that's different...and the >things you mention are worth looking at. Ah, I knew I might have not had the right words... The starter will turn it, but it won't catch - or if it does, it runs for a few seconds and dies - especially if one gives it any gas - which gives more weight to your flooding suggestion. Once it sat, it would fire right up. We'll see how much time my dad has for me this weekend :) >-- Mike B. (still not a mechanic and just guessing based on general, and >possibly flawed, understanding) > Thanks, always good to have more options to look at! Erick 74' CB-750 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 10:51:30 2003 Subject: RE: Cage idiocy - semi-moto Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 10:51:21 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: ROTFL... Don't worry, I don't really abuse it that much. It's just that I get very hypochondriacal when I have to take it in for service, and if I feel that the clutch doesn't engage/disengage as smoothly as it should, then I ask to have that checked out as well. Did an idiot light come on to indicate that I should? No, but *I* felt that something could be wrong. My primary concern (this is only the second new vehicle I've owned) is that something will happen shortly after the warranty is up, I just want to be able to point to a record of early symptoms while it was still under warranty. For the record, it is a 2002 Dodge Dakota 4x4, 28K miles, and about 6,000 of those miles were off-road, doing pipeline construction surveys. I bought it to be a heavy-duty work vehicle, and I expect it to be maintained/serviced accordingly. Skid plate package, heavy-duty cooling package, heavy-duty charging system, etc., etc. I even have the extended full warranty (Gold/Platinum/whatever), but when I blew out a tire on the highway at 8,000 miles, it turns out that tire coverage is purchased seperately... Yeah, I take it in for service whenever *anything* seems to be off. Robert PS: So, is this normal summer weather around here? That rain felt like BB shot on the morning commute! In Oregon it's a softer, gentler sort of drizzle... LOL -----Original Message----- From: Troutman [mailto:mike@XXXXXX] Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 10:32 AM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Cage idiocy - lights At 08:23 AM 9/4/2003, Verde, Robert wrote: >Anyway, since I was mostly doing this to annoy the service people (if >there is anything wrong with it, I want to get it recorded before the >warranty runs out, so I make up symptoms whenever I take it in...) Is it any wonder service departments get frustrated with customers? I wonder how much time they waste trying to find out the imaginary symptom you provide? ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org 2000 Durango SLT 4x4 4.7 44k miles For sale $16k http://classifieds.autos.yahoo.com/class/detail.html?cid=automobiles-1061168440-6238393 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 11:07:35 2003 Subject: RE: Cage idiocy - semi-moto From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 04 Sep 2003 11:03:19 -0400 On Thu, 2003-09-04 at 10:51, Verde, Robert wrote: > PS: So, is this normal summer weather around here? That rain felt like BB shot on the morning commute! In Oregon it's a softer, gentler sort of drizzle... LOL > I think there's more rain that usual but the rain is typically like BB shot (IMO). Last weeks monsoon had extra-large drops, almost like a bucket of water. Similarly on Tuesday afternoon down in Woodbridge. It looked like those Weather Channel hurricane reports from Florida/South Carolina. Carl (And a PS to you: Can you flip on Word Wrap? It's odd since I wrap on read but not on reply.) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 11:10:41 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Isaac Blanck , "Morrison, Brian" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: FYI - Current DC Road Test Report Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 11:12:42 -0500 I took my MC test in New York. The road test was a lot easier than I thought too. For the NYS road test: I had to navigate a couple blocks. Then at the end I had to do: 2 clockwise circles 2 counterclockwise circles 2 figure 8's I had to have someone with a MC license follow me in their car with the inspector along for the ride. I had to have the bike registered, inspected and insured. Same for the car. The testered check it all. -- Rob Sharp SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer ---------- Original Message ----------- From: Isaac Blanck To: "Morrison, Brian" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Sent: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 06:01:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: FYI - Current DC Road Test Report > Well, they've made the test tougher since I took it 2 > years ago. I only had to do 1 figure 8. Nothing > else. Guess they're moving in the right direction ... > jib > --- "Morrison, Brian" wrote: > > Took the DC motorcycle road test today. > > > > I scheduled the appointment around July 9 on the DC > > DMV web site - today > > was the first available date. For the record, there > > is no place to > > select MC/car - you just sign up for a test in > > general. Turns out, they > > DO administer motorcycle tests in serious rain. > > > > To get there, go out RI Ave past Home Depot and turn > > rt on Brentwood, or > > go out NY and exit on Brentwood on rt. It's at the > > corner of Brentwood > > and 13th NE. > > > > Went to Brentwood lot where they do the tests for > > apointment at 0830. > > Did not have to wait more than 5 minutes for the > > test. > > > > All I did was two figure eights, and two "imaginary > > stop sign" stops, > > about 50 yards away - still in first gear. No > > emergency stops or > > swerves or anything like that. You have to turn > > around for the second > > stop, but I don't think that the turning around is > > part of the test. > > > > The figure eights can be as long as you want, and > > the width of 13th st > > near where it intersects with Brentwood - pretty > > wide. There was only > > one car parked on 13th; not sure if that is always > > the case. Conceivably > > there are other tests, but I don't think so; I > > suspect it depends in > > part on the mood of the examiner. > > > > Whole thing took about 2 minutes, then 10 minutes > > inside to get the > > license. They were about as sunny as I have come > > to expect from DC DMV > > employees. > > > > They wanted to see my inspection sticker, > > registration and POI (to which > > the lady said "This doesn't identify your bike. I > > said "Yes it does." > > I think maybe she just thought there could not > > possibly be a bike called > > a 1975 R75/6. She's got a point, really). They > > also wanted to see my > > learner's permit AND my car license. Not sure what > > would have happened > > if I didn't have a car license. Then you get one > > license with the MC > > endorsement. > > > > All told, then, to get a license and registered bike > > in DC involves four > > trips - 1. go to dmv for permit and temp tags; 2. go > > get inspected; 3. > > go get hard tags; 4. go take test and get license. > > All told, probably > > about 5 hours of lifetime I'll never ever get back, > > not counting my one > > false start where I lacked my title when I was > > getting the hard tags. > > > > Brian > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > NOTICE: > > > > This message is intended for the use of the > > individual or entity to which it is addressed and > > may contain information that is privileged, > > confidential and exempt from disclosure under > > applicable law. If the reader of this message is not > > the intended recipient or the employee or agent > > responsible for delivering this message to the > > intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any > > dissemination, distribution or copying of this > > communication is strictly prohibited. If you have > > received this communication in error, please notify > > us immediately by reply or by telephone (call us > > collect at (202) 434-5000) and immediately delete > > this message and all its attachments. > > > > > ============================================================ > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ------- End of Original Message ------- From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 11:15:42 2003 Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 11:07:52 -0400 To: "William J. Huson" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Helmet X-Ray Cc: Brian Roach , dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 07:20 AM 9/4/03 -0400, William J. Huson wrote: >I have a 3/4 Shoei on the shelf, no need to send that one back. I was launched >over a Crown Vic geekermobile, the ol' failure to yield left turn in front of me. A Crown Vic is a geekermobile? I thought those were electric or hybrids? Or did you mean geezermobile? Glad your helmet gave up its life to save yours. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 11:20:30 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: "Verde, Robert" , "William J. Huson" , Cc: Subject: Re: Cage idiocy - lights Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 11:22:27 -0500 I had a new 2001 S10 that had fuel pump problems. I first discovered it in Toronto CA when I was on vacation and my truck wouldn't start. I had to get it replaced 3 times and had it towed about 6 times over the course of two months. You think a service engine light is annoying. Try having your truck not start, get it towed, it starts right up after bouncing around on the back of a tow truck. Once the service guy told me if it had trouble starting bank on the gas tank for a broom or something because there is probably an air bubble in the pump/line. After the 3rd fix and a 3rd new pump/sending unit (new part with a new stock number) to replace the first two flawed ones it was fixed. Then a couple months later all my rear lights stopped working. Turns out the wiring harness was pinched between the tank and the strap holding it up. IT was RUBBING against the tank and shorting out! Ah nothing like wires shorting out against my gas tank. The service guy asked if it had been in an accident and repaired. I was like "nope no accident just had it repaired 3 times to fix this fuel pump problem." Rob -- Rob Sharp SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer ---------- Original Message ----------- From: "Verde, Robert" To: "William J. Huson" , Cc: Sent: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 08:23:06 -0400 Subject: Cage idiocy - lights > To add to the thread: I have a new Dodge Dakota, and so far this > year I have had it into the shop about eight times for "things > related to idiot light coming on." Split vacuum hose, vacuum > canister sensor, and some other stuff. Once I took it in because I > was hearing an odd noise, that got my rear diff replaced. > > Anyway, since I was mostly doing this to annoy the service people > (if there is anything wrong with it, I want to get it recorded > before the warranty runs out, so I make up symptoms whenever I take > it in...) I always call to make an appointment. The last time, the > young lady on the other end of the line could not get me an > appointment any earlier than two weeks later. > > I said (panicked owner voice); "But my check engine light is on!" > She replies; "Well, is it blinking yet? Unless it's blinking on and > off, it's safe to continue driving it..." > > Damn. So now there are idiot lights, and subtleties of idiot light > interpretation... LOL > > - Robert ------- End of Original Message ------- From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 11:25:13 2003 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: FYI - Current DC Road Test Report Content-ID: <22644.1062689111.1@XXXXXX> Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 11:25:11 -0400 From: harry@XXXXXX >I took my MC test in New York. The road test was a lot easier than I thought >too. I got my MC license in 1985 at a half-assed MVA setup in an old firehouse in Frederick (they have a real MVA office there now). I was riding a 50cc Yamaha Riva scooter (the easiest "legal" ride I could find), borrowed from the dealership that sold me my first bike (600cc Yamaha Radian). The test was basically a circuit around the firehouse. You ride along one side of the building, make a left (turn signal!), at which point the examiner can no longer see you, as he stands at the same spot in the parking lot for the whole trip. You're alone now, so you can pop a wheelie, crash the bike, shot-gun a beer, whatever, he can't see you until you come back around the other side of the building. At this point you had to negotiate your way through 4 cones, and come to a stop without falling down. I passed on my first try. :) -harry From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 11:25:23 2003 Reply-To: From: "Jim McGonigle" To: Subject: RE: Cage idiocy - lights Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 11:25:19 -0400 That's so true. Once they fix something except the most minor of things, the chances of something else going bad really increases. Like anything else, once someone gets those hand in there wires are moved, things are pushed the way they aren't expected, connectors are broken... can get ugly fast. Since we are talking about ugly car stories. 2000 VW Jetta GLS VR6 - 3 engines, 2 transmissions, AC, fuel relay, knock sensor and many other things in less than 20k miles. Needless to say, I don't own that car anymore... BTW, avoid Congressional at all cost! > -----Original Message----- > From: Rob Sharp [mailto:rob@XXXXXX] > Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 12:22 PM > To: Verde, Robert; William J. Huson; PenguinBiker@XXXXXX > Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Cage idiocy - lights > > > I had a new 2001 S10 that had fuel pump problems. I first > discovered it in > Toronto CA when I was on vacation and my truck wouldn't > start. I had to get > it replaced 3 times and had it towed about 6 times over the > course of two months. > > You think a service engine light is annoying. Try having > your truck not > start, get it towed, it starts right up after bouncing around > on the back of a > tow truck. Once the service guy told me if it had trouble > starting bank on > the gas tank for a broom or something because there is > probably an air bubble > in the pump/line. > > After the 3rd fix and a 3rd new pump/sending unit (new part > with a new stock > number) to replace the first two flawed ones it was fixed. > > Then a couple months later all my rear lights stopped > working. Turns out the > wiring harness was pinched between the tank and the strap > holding it up. IT > was RUBBING against the tank and shorting out! Ah nothing > like wires shorting > out against my gas tank. The service guy asked if it had > been in an accident > and repaired. I was like "nope no accident just had it > repaired 3 times to > fix this fuel pump problem." > > Rob > > -- > Rob Sharp > SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 > Network Security Engineer > > ---------- Original Message ----------- > From: "Verde, Robert" > To: "William J. Huson" , > Cc: > Sent: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 08:23:06 -0400 > Subject: Cage idiocy - lights > > > To add to the thread: I have a new Dodge Dakota, and so far this > > year I have had it into the shop about eight times for "things > > related to idiot light coming on." Split vacuum hose, vacuum > > canister sensor, and some other stuff. Once I took it in because I > > was hearing an odd noise, that got my rear diff replaced. > > > > Anyway, since I was mostly doing this to annoy the service people > > (if there is anything wrong with it, I want to get it recorded > > before the warranty runs out, so I make up symptoms whenever I take > > it in...) I always call to make an appointment. The last time, the > > young lady on the other end of the line could not get me an > > appointment any earlier than two weeks later. > > > > I said (panicked owner voice); "But my check engine light is on!" > > She replies; "Well, is it blinking yet? Unless it's > blinking on and > > off, it's safe to continue driving it..." > > > > Damn. So now there are idiot lights, and subtleties of idiot light > > interpretation... LOL > > > > - Robert > ------- End of Original Message ------- > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 11:34:48 2003 Subject: Re: FYI - Current DC Road Test Report From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 04 Sep 2003 11:30:35 -0400 On Thu, 2003-09-04 at 11:25, harry@XXXXXX wrote: > >I took my MC test in New York. The road test was a lot easier than I thought > >too. > > I got my MC license in 1985 at a half-assed MVA setup in an old firehouse > in Frederick (they have a real MVA office there now). I was riding a > 50cc Yamaha Riva scooter (the easiest "legal" ride I could find), > borrowed from the dealership that sold me my first bike (600cc > Yamaha Radian). I got mine in Laurel MD in '76 on a Yamaha 250. I took the Army Motorcycle Defensive Driving Course on my CB360. Of course I'd been riding since 72 or 73. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 11:38:08 2003 Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 11:38:11 -0400 To: harry@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: FYI - Current DC Road Test Report At 11:25 AM 9/4/03 -0400, harry@XXXXXX wrote: >The test was basically a circuit around the firehouse. You ride >along one side of the building, make a left (turn signal!), at which >point the examiner can no longer see you, as he stands at the same >spot in the parking lot for the whole trip. You're alone now, so you >can pop a wheelie, crash the bike, shot-gun a beer, whatever, he can't >see you until you come back around the other side of the building. >At this point you had to negotiate your way through 4 cones, and come >to a stop without falling down. > >I passed on my first try. :) How was the beer, and did it affect your ability to do the wheelie? :^) I got mine at the Gaithersburg MVA. They use the same parking lot course they use for car tests, but they use it differently, and have some special markings for bikes. You get to (I may be forgetting some bits): 1. Ride a 30' long, 12" wide "lane", taking a minimum of 12 seconds to complete the distance (slow ride). 2. Make a U turn in a box that's about the size of three parking spaces. 3. Weave around 4 cones. 4. Accelerate into at least 2nd gear, slow, make a U turn, accelerate back, getting up to at least 25 mph, then panic stop when you get to a given line. If you don't stop before you run over the final stop line, points off. (I stopped before the first one, so they made me do it again, going 30 mph :^) 5. Accelerate from the panic stop test location, and stop with your front wheel in a 3' square. (NOT the contact patch in the square, the entire front wheel...they weren't very clear on this one...) 6. Ride to the exit of the lot, STOP (feet on the ground! Merely ceasing movement with feet up, and then going will flunk you! Ask me how I know...) at the stop sign, then go park. I flunked first time for the stop sign thing (they really need to be more explicit with the instructions...), but passed with no points off for anything 2 days later. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 11:40:09 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: , Subject: RE: Cage idiocy - lights Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 11:42:12 -0500 I been going to Criswell in Gaithersburg for my old 2001 S10/new 2003 S10 . I just bought my 2003 S10 from my Dad in NY and it's over there to get inspected. I tell you what, once I got my first truck I can't imagine ever owning a car again. I love being able to haul stuff around. Rob -- Rob Sharp SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer ---------- Original Message ----------- From: "Jim McGonigle" To: Sent: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 11:25:19 -0400 Subject: RE: Cage idiocy - lights > That's so true. Once they fix something except the most minor of > things, the chances of something else going bad really increases. Like > anything else, once someone gets those hand in there wires are moved, > things are pushed the way they aren't expected, connectors are broken... > can get ugly fast. > > Since we are talking about ugly car stories. 2000 VW Jetta GLS VR6 - > 3 engines, 2 transmissions, AC, fuel relay, knock sensor and many other > things in less than 20k miles. Needless to say, I don't own that car > anymore... BTW, avoid Congressional at all cost! > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Rob Sharp [mailto:rob@XXXXXX] > > Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 12:22 PM > > To: Verde, Robert; William J. Huson; PenguinBiker@XXXXXX > > Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > Subject: Re: Cage idiocy - lights > > > > > > I had a new 2001 S10 that had fuel pump problems. I first > > discovered it in > > Toronto CA when I was on vacation and my truck wouldn't > > start. I had to get > > it replaced 3 times and had it towed about 6 times over the > > course of two months. > > > > You think a service engine light is annoying. Try having > > your truck not > > start, get it towed, it starts right up after bouncing around > > on the back of a > > tow truck. Once the service guy told me if it had trouble > > starting bank on > > the gas tank for a broom or something because there is > > probably an air bubble > > in the pump/line. > > > > After the 3rd fix and a 3rd new pump/sending unit (new part > > with a new stock > > number) to replace the first two flawed ones it was fixed. > > > > Then a couple months later all my rear lights stopped > > working. Turns out the > > wiring harness was pinched between the tank and the strap > > holding it up. IT > > was RUBBING against the tank and shorting out! Ah nothing > > like wires shorting > > out against my gas tank. The service guy asked if it had > > been in an accident > > and repaired. I was like "nope no accident just had it > > repaired 3 times to > > fix this fuel pump problem." > > > > Rob > > > > -- > > Rob Sharp > > SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 > > Network Security Engineer > > > > ---------- Original Message ----------- > > From: "Verde, Robert" > > To: "William J. Huson" , > > Cc: > > Sent: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 08:23:06 -0400 > > Subject: Cage idiocy - lights > > > > > To add to the thread: I have a new Dodge Dakota, and so far this > > > year I have had it into the shop about eight times for "things > > > related to idiot light coming on." Split vacuum hose, vacuum > > > canister sensor, and some other stuff. Once I took it in because I > > > was hearing an odd noise, that got my rear diff replaced. > > > > > > Anyway, since I was mostly doing this to annoy the service people > > > (if there is anything wrong with it, I want to get it recorded > > > before the warranty runs out, so I make up symptoms whenever I take > > > it in...) I always call to make an appointment. The last time, the > > > young lady on the other end of the line could not get me an > > > appointment any earlier than two weeks later. > > > > > > I said (panicked owner voice); "But my check engine light is on!" > > > She replies; "Well, is it blinking yet? Unless it's > > blinking on and > > > off, it's safe to continue driving it..." > > > > > > Damn. So now there are idiot lights, and subtleties of idiot light > > > interpretation... LOL > > > > > > - Robert > > ------- End of Original Message ------- > > > > ------- End of Original Message ------- From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 11:48:44 2003 From: "Shigeru Honda" To: Subject: Re: summit point sept 5-7 Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 11:48:22 -0400 I'm planning to race on Saturday in LW SuperSport (AM) class. It'll be my very first race... the goal is not to crash, have fun and hopefully won't be the very last guy... --------------------- Shigeru Honda 98 SuperHawk (Street) 99 750 SS (Track) <- #881 beaten-up unpainted gray fairing with black gas tank... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Laura Roach" To: "rich hall" ; Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 6:03 PM Subject: Re: summit point sept 5-7 > > Is anybody going to the CCS races this weekend? I was going to try to go > > Sunday. I haven't made it to the track yet. Any advice on what time to > go, > > anything to take, to expect? > > Thanks, > > Rich '02 SVS > > > Rich: we'll be there this weekend. Sunday will definitely be a great day > for a racing. Racing starts pretty early on Sunday because it's a full day > of racing...qualifying is at 9, 11 is the stunt squids, after that more > qualifying, and racing starts at Noon. > > If you meet us in our pit, we'll give you the low-down on the track, good > places to watch, etc. We have a 31' ft. Mirada RV with 30-day tags on it. > > Stop by and say hi to Brian and I. > > Laura > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 11:53:10 2003 Subject: Re: FYI - Current DC Road Test Report From: Brian Roach To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 04 Sep 2003 11:52:58 -0400 Ditto on the "unobserved test" 1989, VA DMV on Franconia road ... Leave parking lot making a right. Proceed to light (now out of view of DMV), make right. Go to next intersection, make right. Follow back to main road, make right. Make right back into DMV. Apparently, if you made it back without crashing, you passed. Oh, and I needed to drive across the parking lot (feet up) and stop with my front wheel in a square painted on the pavement. - Roach On Thu, 2003-09-04 at 11:25, harry@XXXXXX wrote: > I got my MC license in 1985 at a half-assed MVA setup in an old firehouse > in Frederick (they have a real MVA office there now). I was riding a > 50cc Yamaha Riva scooter (the easiest "legal" ride I could find), > borrowed from the dealership that sold me my first bike (600cc > Yamaha Radian). From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 11:55:05 2003 Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 11:51:04 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: RE: Cage idiocy - lights Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Jim said: >Since we are talking about ugly car stories. 2000 VW Jetta >GLS VR6 - 3 engines, 2 transmissions, AC, fuel relay, knock >sensor and many other things in less than 20k miles. >Needless to say, I don't own that car >anymore... BTW, avoid Congressional at all cost! [Dave] so much for fahrvegnugen... Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 12:00:58 2003 Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 12:00:53 -0400 To: Brian Roach , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: FYI - Current DC Road Test Report At 11:52 AM 9/4/03 -0400, Brian Roach wrote: > >Ditto on the "unobserved test" > >1989, VA DMV on Franconia road ... > >Leave parking lot making a right. Proceed to light (now out of view of >DMV), make right. Go to next intersection, make right. Follow back to >main road, make right. Make right back into DMV. > >Apparently, if you made it back without crashing, you passed. When I took my car drivers test ('67 VW bug) it was in Virginia Beach and a guy was taking his bike test at the same time. The examiner had him follow us around the block once, and park. Halfway around the block a car pulled out of an alley and almost ran the guy over (examiner was watching him out my back window). The guy swerved left and hit the gas, avoided the accident, and I'm sure he passed the test at that moment! :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 12:58:25 2003 Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 09:57:45 -0700 (PDT) From: "Louis F. Caplan" Subject: Ride for Kids needs volunteers!! To: DC-Cycles Hi folks! A lot of you may be familiar with the Ride for Kids, which raises money for the Pediatric Brain Tumor Foundation. They have a yearly ride in Columbia, MD. This year I'm on the Task Force helping to plan the ride. What you may not know is that there are a lot of volunteers behind the scene to help make the ride possible. Some of them are riders, some don't ride a motorcycle at all. This year we are short of our goal of people to help with registration. There may be some other volunteer oppurtunities as well, but I know that this one they'd like to get at least 30 more people. Even if you volunteer, you can still participate in the ride (in fact you usually get to be closer to the front). If you do volunteer for registration, there is a training session being held at Bob's BMW next week Thursday (9/11/03). The ride is on Sunday, Sept 14th. If you would like to volunteer or need more info you can contact Howard DePue @ ocikat2@XXXXXX or 410-312-5273. If you aren't able to reach him, let me know and I can get you in touch with others who can see that you are taken care of. Hope to see some of you out there either helping out, or on the ride itself. I'll be helping you all to park at the start and end location. Louis Caplan ===== "Admiral" Louis Caplan 1998 Kawasaki Concours Fairfax, VA Please consider helping me support the Pediatrics Brain Tumor Foundation http://www.geocities.com/nighthawk700/rideforkids.htm __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 13:30:54 2003 Subject: Out of business? From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 04 Sep 2003 13:26:38 -0400 Down in Woodbridge there used to be a junkyard/shop called something like H&H although there have been different names. I stopped by there last year looking for a Honda 750 to chop. Anyway there's a guy here who dropped his bike off for repair work and apparently the shop has closed its doors and moved on. He stopped by and the lot is empty. The PW cops can't (or won't) do anything about it without knowing where the guy currently is. Disclaimer: I haven't stopped by to verify that the shop is gone although I probably will today since I lost two more light bulbs on the bike. However the guy is a security guard here and we've been chatting about bikes for the past couple of years. Anyone happen to know where the shop relocated to? He suspects Stafford somewhere. Apparently he also took several bikes with him that were in for work including this guys. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 16:40:13 2003 Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 13:39:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Weaver Subject: Pittsburgh Bikers Hold Naked Protest To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Some Pittsburgh motorcyclists are protesting the Pennsylvania helmet law repeal by organizing a naked group ride. Let's not get any ideas folks. Really. It's just too hideous to think about. http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/pmupdate/s_153342.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 16:50:53 2003 Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 16:49:33 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Brian Roach CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: FYI - Current DC Road Test Report Yeppers, same test the Franconia DMV gave my son in 1987. He wasw kind of dissappointed, wanted to show off and stuff. Kids, sheesh... Back in 1971 the Fairfax DMV made me ride a really loose figure eight, approach the state cop tester from the other end of the parking lot, shifting at least once, than stop in front of him. Lawsy, what a test of skill! I wuz on a 90cc Kawi :-) Bill > Ditto on the "unobserved test" > > 1989, VA DMV on Franconia road ... > > Leave parking lot making a right. Proceed to light (now out of view of > DMV), make right. Go to next intersection, make right. Follow back to > main road, make right. Make right back into DMV. > > Apparently, if you made it back without crashing, you passed. > > Oh, and I needed to drive across the parking lot (feet up) and stop with > my front wheel in a square painted on the pavement. > > - Roach From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 16:53:04 2003 Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 16:51:40 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Dave Yates CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Cage idiocy - lights Dave Yates wrote: > Jim said: > > >Since we are talking about ugly car stories. 2000 VW Jetta > >GLS VR6 - 3 engines, 2 transmissions, AC, fuel relay, knock > >sensor and many other things in less than 20k miles. > >Needless to say, I don't own that car > >anymore... BTW, avoid Congressional at all cost! > > [Dave] so much for fahrvegnugen... > Dave Yates HA1 You didn't know fahrvegnugen is German for wefuckyouupthebutt... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 17:31:43 2003 From: "Mobacc" To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: pressure gauge for tires Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 17:29:54 -0400 Brian Roach opined: On Wed, 2003-09-03 at 13:02, Isaac Blanck wrote: > Are the gauges for moto tires the same ones as for > cage tires, or do I need to buy one specific to motos? > thx jib Same valve stem ... the only problem you may have is clearance depending on what type/size "head" your gauge has on it. Some bikes are a tight fit when it comes to checking air pressure. ...snip *****Daringly I offer, after absorbing the intermediate posts aimed at multiplying the body of scientifically precise and pneumatic knowledge on the list, a pragmatic experience of my own which has alleviated the grunts associated with tight tire valve clearance, straight-end air pump (a pet peeve) awkwardness, etc. At my last tire change I ordered angled stems to replace the old. They are terrific. (Make sure they are pointed to the right, or "upside", a correction which remains to be made by my dealer.) Cost, IIRC, was on the order of $15. Bill S. / DC '99 VN750 > Generally pneumatically correct, I think. Pass air only as appropriate. Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 20:33:40 2003 From: Jason Picton To: Cc: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX '" Subject: RE: Cage idiocy - lights Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 20:31:34 -0400 My 86 VW GTI engine light came on at 60,000 miles - paid for a new oxygen sensor and some such enviromental doohicky.. Sucker came back one at 100,000 miles... I was back in school so money was tight... Women I worked with husband was a VW mechanic... He popped the coolant resevoir off, took a pen and pushed it up a tube that had a switch in it... I heard a click and the light went off... He told me I really only need to do anything if it failed emmissions - which it never did with 200,000 miles, and I reset it everytime it came on... no prob... I don't advocate ignoring the check engine light, but if you have oil and coolant and nothing appears wrong - well...... On another note, my nissan pu check engine light came on at 26,000 (Still under warrantee) I didn't ignore it and took it straight to the dealer.. It's supercharged so I was afraid it might be a mixture issue - turns out what caused it was I didn't tighten the gas cap enough (3 clicks) and that was enviromentally unfriendly so it turns on the light ---- WTF... In a perfect world the light would only go on when their was a issue with the engine - but two of my mechanic friends say that cars are lasting longer - better fluids - and repair - esp fast easy ones are easy sources of income for dealers..... They feel car manufacturers are setting idiot lights to come on for this reason, but they have issues with dealers -so they might be biased... Who knows.... Jason -----Original Message----- From: Dave Yates Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Sent: 9/4/2003 11:51 AM Subject: RE: Cage idiocy - lights Jim said: >Since we are talking about ugly car stories. 2000 VW Jetta >GLS VR6 - 3 engines, 2 transmissions, AC, fuel relay, knock >sensor and many other things in less than 20k miles. >Needless to say, I don't own that car >anymore... BTW, avoid Congressional at all cost! [Dave] so much for fahrvegnugen... Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 22:19:40 2003 Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 22:34:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Cc: Subject: Beaver Run? Has anyone on the list run their bike at Beaver Run? NESBA has some track days there in October. If I have time, I'd like to take my 'Busa up for a day. They seem to have a good beginner program. After 2 Keith Code schools, I have the itch to get out on track with my own bike, even if I'm not running it as hard as a school bike that would only cost me $750 to wreck. ;-) Thanks :-) -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 5 07:06:58 2003 Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 07:05:41 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Chris Weaver CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Pittsburgh Bikers Hold Naked Protest Chris Weaver wrote: > Some Pittsburgh motorcyclists are protesting the > Pennsylvania helmet law repeal by organizing a naked > group ride. Let's not get any ideas folks. Really. > It's just too hideous to think about. AARRRGGHHH!!! The visuals... my tiny brain is all discombobulated. All them Dunkin Doughnuts hopping heavy duty Gold Wing riders, and the bar hopping hairy beer belly Harley riders -- NAKED! ACK! I think I went blind... Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 5 07:28:46 2003 Subject: Re: Pittsburgh Bikers Hold Naked Protest From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 05 Sep 2003 07:24:35 -0400 On Fri, 2003-09-05 at 07:05, William J. Huson wrote: > Chris Weaver wrote: > > > Some Pittsburgh motorcyclists are protesting the > > Pennsylvania helmet law repeal by organizing a naked > > group ride. Let's not get any ideas folks. Really. > > It's just too hideous to think about. > > AARRRGGHHH!!! The visuals... my tiny brain is all discombobulated. All > them Dunkin Doughnuts hopping heavy duty Gold Wing riders, and the bar > hopping hairy beer belly Harley riders -- NAKED! ACK! I think I went > blind... > Then you won't see the Montgomery Doughnuts hopping hairy pot belly Harley rider :-) > Bill > *scratch* *scratch* Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 5 08:26:51 2003 Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 08:25:38 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Carl Schelin CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Pittsburgh Bikers Hold Naked Protest Carl Schelin wrote: > On Fri, 2003-09-05 at 07:05, William J. Huson wrote: > > Chris Weaver wrote: > > > > > Some Pittsburgh motorcyclists are protesting the > > > Pennsylvania helmet law repeal by organizing a naked > > > group ride. Let's not get any ideas folks. Really. > > > It's just too hideous to think about. > > > > AARRRGGHHH!!! The visuals... my tiny brain is all discombobulated. All > > them Dunkin Doughnuts hopping heavy duty Gold Wing riders, and the bar > > hopping hairy beer belly Harley riders -- NAKED! ACK! I think I went > > blind... > > > > Then you won't see the Montgomery Doughnuts hopping hairy pot belly > Harley rider :-) > > > Bill > > > > *scratch* *scratch* > Carl On second thought, I could program my visual input to exclude the horrifying sights and just receive glorious sights, like feed my perverted brain images of the Biker Chicks in the buff. Oh my, what an odd place for a tattoo, and *that* body piercing looks really, really painful >8-0 Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 5 09:06:26 2003 Subject: Re: Pittsburgh Bikers Hold Naked Protest From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 05 Sep 2003 09:02:15 -0400 On Fri, 2003-09-05 at 08:25, William J. Huson wrote: > On second thought, I could program my visual input to exclude the horrifying > sights and just receive glorious sights, like feed my perverted brain images > of the Biker Chicks in the buff. Oh my, what an odd place for a tattoo, and > *that* body piercing looks really, really painful >8-0 > Prince Albert? =:-0 > Bill > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 5 09:41:15 2003 Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 09:40:04 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Carl Schelin CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Pittsburgh Bikers Hold Naked Protest Carl Schelin wrote: > On Fri, 2003-09-05 at 08:25, William J. Huson wrote: > > > On second thought, I could program my visual input to exclude the horrifying > > sights and just receive glorious sights, like feed my perverted brain images > > of the Biker Chicks in the buff. Oh my, what an odd place for a tattoo, and > > *that* body piercing looks really, really painful >8-0 > > > > Prince Albert? =:-0 Nonono, Carl. I'd be checking out the Biker Chicks *snort - drool*. No Prince Alberts but... Oooo, that must have hurt... Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 5 10:13:45 2003 Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 10:13:47 -0400 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Out of business? At 01:26 PM 9/4/03 -0400, Carl Schelin wrote: >Anyone happen to know where the shop relocated to? He suspects Stafford >somewhere. Apparently he also took several bikes with him that were in >for work including this guys. Isn't that called grand theft "auto"? A pretty serious felony? Why aren't the cops interested in investigating it? Or is it just the County Mounties who are stumped? Perhaps a call to the state police is in order? -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 5 10:20:55 2003 Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 10:20:03 -0400 To: "Mobacc" , "DC-Cycles" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: pressure gauge for tires At 05:29 PM 9/4/03 -0400, Mobacc wrote: >At my last tire change I ordered angled stems to replace the old. They are >terrific. (Make sure they are pointed to the right, or "upside", I'm sorry, but that description isn't making sense to me...to the right from what perspective? "up" what? Do you mean that they should be angled so that the valve end trails or leads as the wheel rotates in forward motion? Or that it should stick out to one side? My assumption would be "trail", but that's just an initial guess. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 5 10:24:52 2003 Subject: Re: Out of business? From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 05 Sep 2003 10:20:41 -0400 On Fri, 2003-09-05 at 10:13, Mike Bartman wrote: > At 01:26 PM 9/4/03 -0400, Carl Schelin wrote: > > >Anyone happen to know where the shop relocated to? He suspects Stafford > >somewhere. Apparently he also took several bikes with him that were in > >for work including this guys. > > Isn't that called grand theft "auto"? A pretty serious felony? Why aren't > the cops interested in investigating it? Or is it just the County Mounties > who are stumped? Perhaps a call to the state police is in order? It's the county cops and the guard left it for two years. Apparently the shop left three months ago. I've been in the shop before. He seemed very laid back about work so he just may not have contacted him yet. I did stop by yesterday and the lot is empty. Even the school buses were gone. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 5 10:30:55 2003 Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 10:26:21 -0400 To: Jason Picton From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: Cage idiocy - lights Cc: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX '" At 08:31 PM 9/4/03 -0400, Jason Picton wrote: >turns out >what caused it was I didn't tighten the gas cap enough (3 clicks) and that >was enviromentally unfriendly so it turns on the light ---- WTF... In a >perfect world the light would only go on when their was a issue with the >engine I thought some cars these days had pressurized tanks...something to do with fume return for EPA regs...and that without the pressure the engine fuel pump has to work harder or something, and it can screw up the engine computer's calculations and make the engine run a bit off. Not true? My GF is up visiting her mom in Connecticut and just had the engine light come on in her Pathfinder. Dealer said it was the battery needing replacement. It was 3 years old, and original equipment, so perhaps it was starting to develop early problems...or maybe not. In any case the dealer didn't get to sell her a new battery. She went to Sears and got a Die Hard. Cost 3/4 what Nissan wanted and has a much longer warranty (something like 8 years total). -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 5 10:53:54 2003 Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 10:53:58 -0400 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Pittsburgh Bikers Hold Naked Protest At 07:24 AM 9/5/03 -0400, Carl Schelin wrote: >On Fri, 2003-09-05 at 07:05, William J. Huson wrote: >>ARRRGGHHH!!! The visuals... my tiny brain is all discombobulated. All >> them Dunkin Doughnuts hopping heavy duty Gold Wing riders, and the bar >> hopping hairy beer belly Harley riders -- NAKED! ACK! I think I went >> blind... > >Then you won't see the Montgomery Doughnuts hopping hairy pot belly >Harley rider :-) > >> Bill > >*scratch* *scratch* >Carl Or even a non-donught-eating hairy shrinking-pot belly soon-to-be Harley rider. :^) I put the deposit down on a bike yesterday. '04 FLSTCI (HD Softail Heritage Classic). It will be in in "a couple of weeks". Now to get helmet, boots, see if my old Hein Gericke jacket still fits (and get something else if it doesn't), and order the Bubba's Brakes floorboard extension kit to move the foot controls forward enough that I'll be able to ride it! :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 5 10:56:51 2003 Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 10:56:31 -0400 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Out of business? At 10:20 AM 9/5/03 -0400, Carl Schelin wrote: >It's the county cops and the guard left it for two years. Apparently the >shop left three months ago. I've been in the shop before. He seemed very >laid back about work so he just may not have contacted him yet. Oh...that's a *little* bit different... How long does it take before property is considered "abandoned"? -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 5 11:21:13 2003 Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 08:20:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Nick Thompson Subject: RE: Cage idiocy - lights To: Mike Bartman , Jason Picton Cc: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX '" Just an FYI, if you have a check engine light due to a loose fuel cap, in most cases (at least on ALL Audi's), you can let the car go through 3 drive cycles and the light will turn off. I can't say this is the case with all makes of cars/SUV's. Most check engine lights we see at my dealer are due to MAF (Mass Air Flow Meters) failure's, O2 sensor(s), and Vacuum hoses/vacuum leaks. The slim majority of folks who get the light from a loose fuel cap often laugh at how simple the fix is. According to a friend who's a Nissan Master tech, your batter throwing a check engine light...well, who knows. He's never heard of a Check Engine light coming on from a battery giving low voltage or being dead...very odd, IMO. Nick --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 08:31 PM 9/4/03 -0400, Jason Picton wrote: > >turns out > >what caused it was I didn't tighten the gas cap > enough (3 clicks) and that > >was enviromentally unfriendly so it turns on the > light ---- WTF... In a > >perfect world the light would only go on when their > was a issue with the > >engine > > I thought some cars these days had pressurized > tanks...something to do with > fume return for EPA regs...and that without the > pressure the engine fuel > pump has to work harder or something, and it can > screw up the engine > computer's calculations and make the engine run a > bit off. Not true? > > My GF is up visiting her mom in Connecticut and just > had the engine light > come on in her Pathfinder. Dealer said it was the > battery needing > replacement. It was 3 years old, and original > equipment, so perhaps it was > starting to develop early problems...or maybe not. > In any case the dealer > didn't get to sell her a new battery. She went to > Sears and got a Die > Hard. Cost 3/4 what Nissan wanted and has a much > longer warranty > (something like 8 years total). > > -- Mike B. > > **************************************************************************** > * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered > Obfuscation Obliterated * > * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled > Opinions Offered * > * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined > Smiles Stimulated * > *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* > * "We do it all! No job too small! No > price too high! * > **************************************************************************** > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 5 11:51:04 2003 Subject: Re: Pittsburgh Bikers Hold Naked Protest From: Carl Schelin To: Mike Bartman Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 05 Sep 2003 11:46:51 -0400 On Fri, 2003-09-05 at 10:53, Mike Bartman wrote: > At 07:24 AM 9/5/03 -0400, Carl Schelin wrote: > >On Fri, 2003-09-05 at 07:05, William J. Huson wrote: > > >>ARRRGGHHH!!! The visuals... my tiny brain is all discombobulated. All > >> them Dunkin Doughnuts hopping heavy duty Gold Wing riders, and the bar > >> hopping hairy beer belly Harley riders -- NAKED! ACK! I think I went > >> blind... > > > >Then you won't see the Montgomery Doughnuts hopping hairy pot belly > >Harley rider :-) > > > >> Bill > > > >*scratch* *scratch* > >Carl > > > Or even a non-donught-eating hairy shrinking-pot belly soon-to-be Harley > rider. :^) > Hey, my pot got smaller on the trip. An apple pie for breakfast, fast food for drunch (between lunch and dinner) and to bed early will lighten anyone. > I put the deposit down on a bike yesterday. '04 FLSTCI (HD Softail > Heritage Classic). It will be in in "a couple of weeks". Now to get > helmet, boots, see if my old Hein Gericke jacket still fits (and get > something else if it doesn't), and order the Bubba's Brakes floorboard > extension kit to move the foot controls forward enough that I'll be able to > ride it! :^) > Cool! Congrats. > -- Mike B. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 5 11:51:23 2003 Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 11:50:14 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Mike Bartman CC: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Out of business? Mike Bartman wrote: > At 10:20 AM 9/5/03 -0400, Carl Schelin wrote: > > >It's the county cops and the guard left it for two years. Apparently the > >shop left three months ago. I've been in the shop before. He seemed very > >laid back about work so he just may not have contacted him yet. > > Oh...that's a *little* bit different... > > How long does it take before property is considered "abandoned"? > > -- Mike B. Methinks 30 days, but the shop keeper would have to file a mechanics lien or abandoned form with the DMV which requires a registered letter to the DMV known last title holder. After mailing said letter, wait 30 days and go to the DMV for a new title. Did that with `69 Baracuda that had been offed by a former owner when the engine blew - dummy ran it without iol, about the only way one can kill a Silly Six. Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 5 11:53:19 2003 Subject: Re: Out of business? From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 05 Sep 2003 11:49:08 -0400 On Fri, 2003-09-05 at 10:56, Mike Bartman wrote: > At 10:20 AM 9/5/03 -0400, Carl Schelin wrote: > > >It's the county cops and the guard left it for two years. Apparently the > >shop left three months ago. I've been in the shop before. He seemed very > >laid back about work so he just may not have contacted him yet. > > Oh...that's a *little* bit different... > Yea but I think the guy was working on it in his spare time. The guard was just very patient. More patient that I would have been but I wouldn't have taken it to > How long does it take before property is considered "abandoned"? > I'd go more for taking it in lieu of storage fees. > -- Mike B. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 5 12:39:28 2003 From: To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Pittsburgh Bikers Hold Naked Protest Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 12:39:19 -0400 > > I put the deposit down on a bike yesterday. '04 FLSTCI (HD Softail > > Heritage Classic). It will be in in "a couple of weeks". Now to get > > helmet, boots, see if my old Hein Gericke jacket still fits (and get > > something else if it doesn't), and order the Bubba's Brakes floorboard > > extension kit to move the foot controls forward enough that I'll be able to > > ride it! :^) > > > > Cool! Congrats. > > > -- Mike B. > > Congrats Mike! Where did you order it from? -aki From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 5 13:40:47 2003 Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 10:40:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Out of business? To: Mike Bartman , Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 10:20 AM 9/5/03 -0400, Carl Schelin wrote: > > >It's the county cops and the guard left it for two > years. Apparently the > >shop left three months ago. I've been in the shop > before. He seemed very > >laid back about work so he just may not have contacted > him yet. > > Oh...that's a *little* bit different... > > How long does it take before property is considered > "abandoned"? Va. Code Ann. )B§ 46.2-1204 (2003) )B§ 46.2-1204. Vehicles abandoned in garages Notwithstanding )B§ 46.2-1200, any motor vehicle, trailer, semitrailer, or part thereof shall be considered abandoned and may be reported by the garagekeeper to the political subdivision if it has been left in a garage for more than ten days or for more than ten days beyond the period the vehicle was to remain on the premises pursuant to a contract, after notice by registered or certified mail, return receipt requested, to the owner of record and all persons having security interests of record therein, to reclaim the vehicle within fifteen days of the notice. Any abandoned motor vehicle left in a garage may be taken into custody by the locality in accordance with )B§ 46.2-1201 and shall be subject to the notice and sale provisions contained in §§ 46.2-1202 and 46.2-1203. If, however, the vehicle is reclaimed in accordance with )B§ 46.2-1202, the person reclaiming it, in addition to the other charges required to be paid, shall pay the reasonable charges of the garagekeeper, unless otherwise provided by contract or ordinance. If the vehicle is sold pursuant to )B§ 46.2-1203, any garagekeeper's charges shall be paid from, and to the extent of, the excess of the proceeds of sale after paying the expenses of the auction, the costs of towing, preserving, and storing the vehicle which resulted from placing the vehicle in custody and all notice and publication costs incurred pursuant to )B§ 46.2-1202. Except as otherwise provided in this article, nothing in this section shall restrict any rights conferred on any person under §§ 43-32 through 43-36. For the purposes of this section, "garage" means any commercial parking place, motor vehicle storage facility, or establishment for the servicing, repair, maintenance, or sale of motor vehicles whether or not the vehicle had been brought to that location with the consent of the owner or person in control of the premises and "garagekeeper" means the operator of a garage. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 5 14:43:57 2003 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Wheel Chair biker Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 14:43:49 -0400 On my way in today I passed a Harley w/ a wheel chair on the back and "training wheels" on the bike itself. Guy got an extra big wave from me. Rich '02 SVS _________________________________________________________________ Compare Cable, DSL or Satellite plans: As low as $29.95. https://broadband.msn.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 5 14:53:39 2003 From: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" To: "'rich hall'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Wheel Chair biker Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 14:53:22 -0400 I saw that guy on the news just before the Rolling thunder ride and saw him there. I think that is just so cool that he is able to ride. I also saw a RC51 with the same set up for the track. -----Original Message----- From: rich hall [mailto:richallmc@XXXXXX] Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 2:44 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Wheel Chair biker On my way in today I passed a Harley w/ a wheel chair on the back and "training wheels" on the bike itself. Guy got an extra big wave from me. Rich '02 SVS _________________________________________________________________ Compare Cable, DSL or Satellite plans: As low as $29.95. https://broadband.msn.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 5 15:45:21 2003 Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 15:45:35 -0400 To: , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Re: Pittsburgh Bikers Hold Naked Protest At 12:39 PM 9/5/03 -0400, adamme1@XXXXXX wrote: > > >> > I put the deposit down on a bike yesterday. '04 FLSTCI (HD Softail >> > Heritage Classic). It will be in in "a couple of weeks". Now to get >> > helmet, boots, see if my old Hein Gericke jacket still fits (and get >> > something else if it doesn't), and order the Bubba's Brakes floorboard >> > extension kit to move the foot controls forward enough that I'll be able to >> > ride it! :^) >> > >> >> Cool! Congrats. >> >> > -- Mike B. > >Congrats Mike! Where did you order it from? Rockville HD, up near the Gaithersburg Airport. They are closest to me, they have been nice every time I've been in (several times over the last couple of months) as well as remembering me, the cost was pretty close to MSRP (didn't check exactly, but I may do that just to see once I get the breakdown of licence, registration, taxes, etc. In any case the total is acceptable, which is what matters most :), their parts guy was very helpful even when it wasn't going to result in a sale (he's the one who pointed me at Bubba's Brakes to solve my foot control problem), and the service guys were equally helpful, even taking me back to look at the shop area and show me how the foot controls go onto a softtail. They also sponsor the local H.O.G. group, who seem to be a really great bunch of folks (I attended a meeting in June to see). I've got no complaints at all about the place so far, so they got the business! -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 5 15:50:22 2003 Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 15:48:40 -0400 To: Tom Gimer , Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Out of business? Thank you very much for the very complete answer. Looks like it might still be considered vehicle theft then, if the vehicle was removed without notice to either the state or the owner in a reasonable time (3 months seems well beyond any reasonable delay period), right? Just curious...I'd never have left a bike that long either... -- Mike B. At 10:40 AM 9/5/03 -0700, Tom Gimer wrote: >--- Mike Bartman wrote: >> How long does it take before property is considered >> "abandoned"? > > > >Va. Code Ann. )B§ 46.2-1204 (2003) > >)B§ 46.2-1204. Vehicles abandoned in garages > > > Notwithstanding )B§ 46.2-1200, any motor vehicle, trailer, >semitrailer, or part thereof shall be considered abandoned >and may be reported by the garagekeeper to the political >subdivision if it has been left in a garage for more than >ten days or for more than ten days beyond the period the >vehicle was to remain on the premises pursuant to a >contract, after notice by registered or certified mail, >return receipt requested, to the owner of record and all >persons having security interests of record therein, to >reclaim the vehicle within fifteen days of the notice. Any >abandoned motor vehicle left in a garage may be taken into >custody by the locality in accordance with )B§ 46.2-1201 and >shall be subject to the notice and sale provisions >contained in §§ 46.2-1202 and 46.2-1203. If, however, the >vehicle is reclaimed in accordance with )B§ 46.2-1202, the >person reclaiming it, in addition to the other charges >required to be paid, shall pay the reasonable charges of >the garagekeeper, unless otherwise provided by contract or >ordinance. If the vehicle is sold pursuant to )B§ 46.2-1203, >any garagekeeper's charges shall be paid from, and to the >extent of, the excess of the proceeds of sale after paying >the expenses of the auction, the costs of towing, >preserving, and storing the vehicle which resulted from >placing the vehicle in custody and all notice and >publication costs incurred pursuant to )B§ 46.2-1202. Except >as otherwise provided in this article, nothing in this >section shall restrict any rights conferred on any person >under §§ 43-32 through 43-36. > >For the purposes of this section, "garage" means any >commercial parking place, motor vehicle storage facility, >or establishment for the servicing, repair, maintenance, or >sale of motor vehicles whether or not the vehicle had been >brought to that location with the consent of the owner or >person in control of the premises and "garagekeeper" means >the operator of a garage. > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software >http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 5 15:50:28 2003 Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 15:50:32 -0400 To: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" , "'rich hall'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: Wheel Chair biker Any idea how he handles the foot controls? Are the brakes automated in some way so the rear comes on just ahead of the front? What about the shift? Electric shift or something? Be interesting to see just from an engineering standpoint... -- Mike B. At 02:53 PM 9/5/03 -0400, Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS) wrote: >I saw that guy on the news just before the Rolling thunder ride and saw him >there. I think that is just so cool that he is able to ride. I also saw a >RC51 with the same set up for the track. > >-----Original Message----- >From: rich hall [mailto:richallmc@XXXXXX] >Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 2:44 PM >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Wheel Chair biker > >On my way in today I passed a Harley w/ a wheel chair on the back and >"training wheels" on the bike itself. Guy got an extra big wave from me. >Rich '02 SVS > >_________________________________________________________________ >Compare Cable, DSL or Satellite plans: As low as $29.95. >https://broadband.msn.com > **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 5 17:38:50 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Mike Bartman , Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Out of business? Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 17:40:54 -0500 I think it's cause you place your car in their care directly. GTA is when someone steals your car, without your consent and knowledge. Rob -- Rob Sharp SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer ---------- Original Message ----------- From: Mike Bartman To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Sent: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 10:13:47 -0400 Subject: Re: Out of business? > At 01:26 PM 9/4/03 -0400, Carl Schelin wrote: > > >Anyone happen to know where the shop relocated to? He suspects Stafford > >somewhere. Apparently he also took several bikes with him that were in > >for work including this guys. > > Isn't that called grand theft "auto"? A pretty serious felony? Why > aren't the cops interested in investigating it? Or is it just the > County Mounties who are stumped? Perhaps a call to the state police > is in order? > > -- Mike B. > > **************************************************************************** > * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation > Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled > Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options > Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *------------------------------ > --------------------------------------------* * "We do it > all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** ------- End of Original Message ------- From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 5 19:09:04 2003 From: "Mobacc" To: "Mike Bartman" Cc: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: pressure gauge for tires Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 19:06:50 -0400 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Bartman" > At 05:29 PM 9/4/03 -0400, Mobacc wrote: > > >At my last tire change I ordered angled stems to replace the old. They are > >terrific. (Make sure they are pointed to the right, or "upside", > > I'm sorry, but that description isn't making sense to me...to the right > from what perspective? "up" what? > > Do you mean that they should be angled so that the valve end trails or > leads as the wheel rotates in forward motion? Or that it should stick out > to one side? > > My assumption would be "trail", but that's just an initial guess. > > -- Mike B. ...snip Hmmm. Perhaps this arises from one whose bike model has easy access to the stem for filling/guaging. Not so mine. I'll try to graphic this. Picture a tubeless valvestem. Installed, the "Pfffft" (external air income or outgo) end points toward the rotating hub of the wheel. In many bike model cases, the area around the Pfffft end is crowded with narrow "spoke" spacing and/or lack of distance to the hub (which may contain drum brakes, or hold brake disks, giving it a large circumference). This makes it hard to easily take pressure readings (some guages) or use many filling hoses. (Think of a rear bicycle wheel with inch-thick spokes and a huge drum brake!) So, an alternative (used also on large trucks, etc.) is a stem which is longer, and bent at a 90 deg. angle an inch or so above the rim base. Installed, the bent-Pffft end sticks out to the side of the plane of the wheel, so guages or fillers come at it from the side direction (either right or left side possible) rather than from the hub direction. My best info is that 99.99% of bikes have kickstands on the left, so that when parked the left side is pointed somewhat "down and inside" (and the front wheel curls to the left). This posture makes it harder to access (for tire guage/fill ops) the bent-Pffft ends pointed to the left, rather than if they were more handily pointed to the right and "up and outside" (particularly if one has saddlebags). If a centerstand is used, the issue is moot. This may or may not clarify -- Be happy to try further offlist. Bill S. / DC '99 VN750 > Inner-downer, wannabe outer-upper Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 5 21:24:49 2003 Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 21:25:07 -0400 To: "Mobacc" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: pressure gauge for tires Cc: "DC-Cycles" At 07:06 PM 9/5/03 -0400, Mobacc wrote: >So, an alternative (used also on large trucks, etc.) is a stem which is >longer, and bent at a 90 deg. angle an inch or so above the rim base. >Installed, the bent-Pffft end sticks out to the side of the plane of the >wheel, so guages or fillers come at it from the side direction (either right >or left side possible) rather than from the hub direction. > >This may or may not clarify -- Be happy to try further offlist. That clarified it nicely, thank you. Wouldn't it be best to have it aimed as much "trailing" as possible though? To the side, for access, but not 90 degrees out (parallel with the axle)? Seems to me that sticking out to the side would make it more vulnerable to cuts from rocks, ruts and anything else the tire brushes past. If it's turned a bit to the trailing position (forward if the tire is turned so that the stem is closest to the ground) then it's probably not sticking out past the rim, even on a narrow rim tire. I suppose that if your rims are wide enough, or the part of the stem after the bend is short enough, this wouldn't be a problem though, and in that case 90 degrees would give you best access. Thanks for the idea! My new bike has spokes, so it might be useful... :^) --Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 5 21:59:25 2003 From: "Kathleen Loerich" To: "Silver, Arthur \(NIH/NIGMS\)" , "'rich hall'" , , "Mike Bartman" Subject: Re: Wheel Chair biker Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 21:59:56 -0400 Was it a Pan Head trike and was his name Barry Zoeller? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Bartman" To: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" ; "'rich hall'" ; Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 3:50 PM Subject: RE: Wheel Chair biker > > Any idea how he handles the foot controls? Are the brakes automated in > some way so the rear comes on just ahead of the front? What about the > shift? Electric shift or something? Be interesting to see just from an > engineering standpoint... > > -- Mike B. > > At 02:53 PM 9/5/03 -0400, Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS) wrote: > >I saw that guy on the news just before the Rolling thunder ride and saw him > >there. I think that is just so cool that he is able to ride. I also saw a > >RC51 with the same set up for the track. > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: rich hall [mailto:richallmc@XXXXXX] > >Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 2:44 PM > >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > >Subject: Wheel Chair biker > > > >On my way in today I passed a Harley w/ a wheel chair on the back and > >"training wheels" on the bike itself. Guy got an extra big wave from me. > >Rich '02 SVS > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Compare Cable, DSL or Satellite plans: As low as $29.95. > >https://broadband.msn.com > > > > **************************************************************************** > * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * > * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * > * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * > *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* > * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * > **************************************************************************** > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Sep 6 10:36:49 2003 Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 10:36:26 -0400 Subject: FS: 2000 SV650Y (no fairing) From: Randy Moran To: DC Cycles Blue. 13,500 miles, well-maintained and completely stock. Used regularly as a commuter and on weekends and the occasional track day (oil drain is drilled for safety wire). Never down, always garaged, it is in superb shape mechanically and cosmetically. I am selling it because I've recently purchased an RC51 which I ride most of the time, and I have an FZR400 which I'm currently working on restoring, so the SV pretty much just sits. A sad situation that can be rectified by the first interested party with $3400 OBO Prime riding weather is upon us! email or call Randy Moran @ (703)754-7974 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Sep 6 15:12:54 2003 From: "Mobacc" To: "Mike Bartman" Cc: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: pressure gauge for tires Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 15:10:04 -0400 Sure. The Pffft-end angle is quasi-choice. And trailing probably better than leading (which might encourage roadglop accretion in the valve). Bill S. / DC '99 VN750 > Anti- roadglop. Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Bartman" To: "Mobacc" Cc: "DC-Cycles" Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 9:25 PM Subject: Re: pressure gauge for tires > At 07:06 PM 9/5/03 -0400, Mobacc wrote: > > > >So, an alternative (used also on large trucks, etc.) is a stem which is > >longer, and bent at a 90 deg. angle an inch or so above the rim base. > >Installed, the bent-Pffft end sticks out to the side of the plane of the > >wheel, so guages or fillers come at it from the side direction (either right > >or left side possible) rather than from the hub direction. > > > > >This may or may not clarify -- Be happy to try further offlist. > > That clarified it nicely, thank you. > > Wouldn't it be best to have it aimed as much "trailing" as possible though? > To the side, for access, but not 90 degrees out (parallel with the axle)? > Seems to me that sticking out to the side would make it more vulnerable to > cuts from rocks, ruts and anything else the tire brushes past. If it's > turned a bit to the trailing position (forward if the tire is turned so > that the stem is closest to the ground) then it's probably not sticking out > past the rim, even on a narrow rim tire. > > I suppose that if your rims are wide enough, or the part of the stem after > the bend is short enough, this wouldn't be a problem though, and in that > case 90 degrees would give you best access. > > Thanks for the idea! My new bike has spokes, so it might be useful... :^) > > --Mike B. > > **************************************************************************** > * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * > * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * > * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * > *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* > * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * > **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Sep 6 15:18:12 2003 Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 15:16:58 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Mobacc CC: Mike Bartman , DC-Cycles Subject: Re: pressure gauge for tires Mobacc wrote: > Sure. The Pffft-end angle is quasi-choice. And trailing probably better > than leading (which might encourage roadglop accretion in the valve). > > Bill S. / DC > '99 VN750 > Anti- roadglop. > Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. Two words... Valve caps. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Sep 6 22:55:38 2003 Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 19:55:19 -0700 (PDT) From: dc Subject: re: synthetic air To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX youse guys are killing me; just killing me... hey. If, on some thursday, some of ya-all are getting together for a medium-size ride, will someone come pick me up and let me ride in back? I haven't got my own bike yet, and wouldn't know how to ride it until tomorrow if I got it today. thanks, and keep up the good work, deb specialized expedition __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Sep 6 23:15:04 2003 Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 20:15:00 -0700 (PDT) From: dc Subject: fuel line bubbles To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Anyone have advice on a Porsche 914 that's been settinawhile? deb Specialized Expedition __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Sep 6 23:17:47 2003 Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 20:17:44 -0700 (PDT) From: dc Subject: re:Prince Albert? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX It could be worse: my friend got a Guiche-piece. I wrote him a commemorative poem; here's an excerpt: O metal fixture, steely-bright, Stuck twixt my ass and balls: Your hidden pleasure's out of sight Except when Duty calls. d 2001 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Sep 6 23:54:24 2003 Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 23:54:17 -0400 To: dc , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: fuel line bubbles At 08:15 PM 9/6/03 -0700, dc wrote: >Anyone have advice on a Porsche 914 that's been >settinawhile? Are you buying, selling, or driving? -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Sep 7 06:41:12 2003 Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 06:40:00 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: dc CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: fuel line bubbles dc wrote: > Anyone have advice on a Porsche 914 that's been > settinawhile? > > deb > Specialized Expedition > Depends how long it's been sitting, and what was done before it was put to bed. Charge/replace battery, check tires for dry rot, change all the fluids, fire the dang thing up. Might wanna dust for spiders and other critters before plopping your butt in the seat... Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Sep 7 08:36:56 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: Re: fuel line bubbles Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 08:36:39 -0400 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec790cb8d7fd226abf786b3aa63f9575975b350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c > Anyone have advice on a Porsche 914 that's been > settinawhile? > > > deb > Specialized Expedition [Dave] Target practice ? ;-) How long is "a while" ? don't forget the tires ... watch for dry rot etc. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Sep 7 14:34:50 2003 Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 11:34:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Bent Handlebar? Well, the ever-generous Matt Patton came out and took a look at the crashed bike on Wednesday evening. Twitched his nose, waved his magic wand (VOM), and the bike started right up. Rode it home. My in-laws have been visiting, so I've not had a chance to give the bike a thorough going-over since then, but I just went outside and had a look. It looks mostly intact, barring a pretty battered headlamp and off-skew front mirrors. One problem, though, is that when I turn the handlebar to full right lock, the grip actually contacts the tank, pinching my hand between the throttle and the tank. Could the handlebar have become bent? Is it safe to ride in this condition? Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Sep 7 21:56:17 2003 From: "Rob Keiser" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Garage Help... Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 21:56:05 -0400 After a nice day of watching football and finishing a couple small home projects, I hit the close garage door button and enter my kitchen. It all seemed so normal, as I have done for the past 10 or so years. Then, chaos. The sound for glass breaking, plastic hitting the concrete floor, and my heart in my throat as I imagined my beloved VFR falling over. But how? It was on the center stand right as I had left it after changing it's oil and filter. Expecting the worst, I throw open the door to see my bike standing right where I had left it but a few items scattered about. What the....? Apparently, as the door was lowering, one of the springs gave up the fight and finally let got, taking a few casualties with it. (fluorescent bulbs, furnace filter, etc.) Phew! But now what? I can't open the door. Anybody have any recommendations for places that fix/replace garage door springs? This isn't something I intend to even try, so let's hear it. At least my cage is in the driveway. Thanks in advanced! Rob '98 VFR800 (stuck inside) :( _________________________________________________________________ Need more e-mail storage? Get 10MB with Hotmail Extra Storage. http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Sep 7 23:27:45 2003 Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 23:26:36 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Rob Keiser CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Garage Help... I've had garage door springs give blow out before. One damn near scalped me on the way to twang-kicking several oil jugs off a shelf. The springs are an *assist* to open the door, so my doors can be raised without springs. Kind off a b--- buster, but it can be done. The wrinkle for you is the power door opener. Maybe dissconnect that and you can muscle the door open. A fix? Mine are long coils and the loop broke. I bent the next coil around to make a new loop But I may have a solution for you... The last pair of garage doors I installed came with two different spring setups. The long coils which I used and a set of funny springs, like spring inna can. Methinks they're called torsion springs or something like that. Have them in the garage from hell. If you think you can use them give me a jingle at 703 624-9648. Free of course. Bill Rob Keiser wrote: > After a nice day of watching football and finishing a couple small home > projects, I hit the close garage door button and enter my kitchen. It all > seemed so normal, as I have done for the past 10 or so years. > > Then, chaos. The sound for glass breaking, plastic hitting the concrete > floor, and my heart in my throat as I imagined my beloved VFR falling over. > But how? It was on the center stand right as I had left it after changing > it's oil and filter. > > Expecting the worst, I throw open the door to see my bike standing right > where I had left it but a few items scattered about. What the....? > > Apparently, as the door was lowering, one of the springs gave up the fight > and finally let got, taking a few casualties with it. (fluorescent bulbs, > furnace filter, etc.) Phew! > > But now what? I can't open the door. Anybody have any recommendations for > places that fix/replace garage door springs? This isn't something I intend > to even try, so let's hear it. > > At least my cage is in the driveway. Thanks in advanced! > > Rob > '98 VFR800 (stuck inside) :( > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 07:01:08 2003 Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 07:00:58 -0400 (EDT) From: jdonovan@XXXXXX To: Rob Keiser cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Garage Help... On Sun, 7 Sep 2003, Rob Keiser wrote: > But now what? I can't open the door. Anybody have any recommendations for > places that fix/replace garage door springs? This isn't something I intend > to even try, so let's hear it. Disconnect the power opener and you should be able to open it. It may way up to 300lbs (16' wood door') so you may need some help. Also as you have lost the counter balance you need to lock the door in the open position. What we used to do in the fire dept when a garage fire had burnt things up was either clamp 2 vice grips to the tracks, or put a carabiner through one of the holes in the track. -John From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 09:50:49 2003 Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 06:50:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Moto Death in DC Area To: DC Cycles This was in today's Post. Lessons? Have you bike in gear at a light, with eyes glued to the mirror? Don't ride on a Saturday night? Car Kills Motorcyclist Stopped at Light A motorcyclist who was stopped at a red light on Baltimore National Pike in Ellicott City was killed early yesterday when he was hit from behind by car, police said. The 42-year-old Ellicott City resident was hit at 12:15 a.m. and transported to Maryland Shock Trauma Center, where he died. The driver, Susan Elizabeth Williams, 34, of Ellicott City, was arrested and charged with driving while intoxicated. ===== www.deanforamerica.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 09:54:52 2003 Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 06:54:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Loud Pipes Annoy People To: DC Cycles This is from the Post on Saturday. While he is probably not correct in stating that these bikes have 'no' muffler (what a about a straight pipe on a harley) his point should be well taken. Whether its a loud sportbike or crazy crazy loud Harley, such antics do not endear us to anyone. Dear Dr. Gridlock: In addition to air pollution caused by oversized, overweight gas guzzlers, there is another kind of pollution out there in traffic: noise pollution. The extreme loud noise created by some motorcycles might not be as dangerous as what is being blown into the air, but it sure is annoying. Why is this tolerated? Birgitt Wolf Springfield There's nothing like a motorcycle running wide open without a muffler to break the quiet of a residential street or add to the stress of gridlock. I've found that loud motorcycles (and some automobiles) create decibel levels that are inverse to the operator's IQ. They get away with it because they can. I put them in the category with drivers of vehicles that are jacked too high off the ground, with dark windows, and with tinted covers concealing the license plate. ===== www.deanforamerica.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 10:20:45 2003 Reply-To: From: "Jim McGonigle" To: "'Mark Kitchell'" , "'DC Cycles'" Subject: RE: Moto Death in DC Area Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 10:19:54 -0400 Prime time DWI time... Riding on Friday and Saturday nights is asking for trouble. Too many drunks, show-offs and wanna be racers out there. Not sure if I would recognize fast enough someone not stopping behind me to get out of the way, especially at night. I hope Susan gets here own personal cell for the next 30 years. -Jim > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Kitchell [mailto:markkitchell@XXXXXX] > Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 9:50 AM > To: DC Cycles > Subject: Moto Death in DC Area > > > This was in today's Post. > > Lessons? Have you bike in gear at a light, with eyes > glued to the mirror? Don't ride on a Saturday night? > > Car Kills Motorcyclist Stopped at Light > > A motorcyclist who was stopped at a red light on > Baltimore National Pike in Ellicott City was killed > early yesterday when he was hit from behind by car, > police said. > > The 42-year-old Ellicott City resident was hit at > 12:15 a.m. and transported to Maryland Shock Trauma > Center, where he died. The driver, Susan Elizabeth > Williams, 34, of Ellicott City, was arrested and > charged with driving while intoxicated. > > > > ===== > www.deanforamerica.com > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 10:38:47 2003 Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 10:38:32 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Michael Jordan Reply-To: Michael Jordan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Bent Handlebar? >One problem, though, is that when I turn the handlebar to >full right lock, the grip actually contacts the tank, pinching my hand >between the throttle and the tank. Could the handlebar have become bent? If it was bent that bad, you'd notice it immediately. Most probable problem is a bent or missing stop (tab on the frame and tab on the lower triple clamp to keep the forks from turning too much). Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 10:47:16 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 10:46:32 EDT Subject: Re: Bent Handlebar? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 9/7/2003 2:35:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, fish@XXXXXX writes: > Could the handlebar have become bent? > Is it safe to ride in this condition? The answer to the first question is yes, BUT, it is just as likely that you bent or broke off the steering stop on the steering head. There is one stop welded to the steering head with some sort of stop on each side of the lower triple clamp. (usual location.) As for safety I would check first to make sure there is nothing going to fall into or interfere with steering and if not you _should_ be OK to ride. Note: the handlebar will make a nasty dent in the fuel tank if it flops into it, caution is advised. Loud pipes quell cells. 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 10:50:18 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 10:49:47 EDT Subject: Re: Moto Death in DC Area To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 9/8/2003 9:50:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time, markkitchell@XXXXXX writes: > A motorcyclist who was stopped at a red light was killed > early yesterday when he was hit from behind by car, DAMN! There are few things that scare me more on a bike then being the only thing at a red light about to turn green and there is a cage coming up behind me. I know the driver is looking at the light, not me, and about to floor it. Loud pipes quell cells. 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 10:55:21 2003 Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 10:54:04 -0400 To: Fish Flowers , DC-Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Bent Handlebar? At 11:34 AM 9/7/03 -0700, Fish Flowers wrote: > One problem, though, is that when I turn the handlebar to >full right lock, the grip actually contacts the tank, pinching my hand >between the throttle and the tank. Could the handlebar have become bent? It's possible...or it might have rotated in the clamps...does it feel different than it was before other than that? If so, may be bent or need repositioning. It's also possible that the stops have been damaged (bent, broken or moved, depending on how your bike limits travel). May be adjustable, or may need repair/replace. >Is it safe to ride in this condition? I'm not sure. It's sure not safe to get your hand pinched like that, and it's not safe to let the front wheel turn too far...but for riding straight ahead it should be fine. ;^) -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 11:00:22 2003 Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 10:55:33 -0400 Subject: Experienced Rider Course/Martinsburg From: Bob McKeithen To: DC Cycles If any of need/want an ERC call 866 355 9399 Bob From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 11:02:18 2003 Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 10:58:11 -0400 To: "Rob Keiser" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Garage Help... At 09:56 PM 9/7/03 -0400, Rob Keiser wrote: >Apparently, as the door was lowering, one of the springs gave up the fight >and finally let got, taking a few casualties with it. (fluorescent bulbs, >furnace filter, etc.) Phew! > >But now what? I'd be careful cleaning up those broken fluorescent tubes...some of them contain mercury. >I can't open the door. Anybody have any recommendations for >places that fix/replace garage door springs? This isn't something I intend >to even try, so let's hear it. I'd guess that anyplace that installs garage doors should be able to fix a spring. I've heard good things about a place called "Overhead Door", but I don't know much about them. Yellow pages? I'm interested in the answer too, and any experience you have with whoever you hire to do the fix...my door springs are ok, but the doors themselves are nearing end of life and will most likely be replaced soon. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 11:02:31 2003 Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 11:01:03 -0400 To: Mark Kitchell , DC Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Moto Death in DC Area At 06:50 AM 9/8/03 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote: >This was in today's Post. > >Lessons? Have you bike in gear at a light, with eyes >glued to the mirror? Don't ride on a Saturday night? Shoot drunk drivers on the first offense? There is absolutely no excuse for driving while intoxicated. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 11:04:09 2003 Reply-To: From: "Jim McGonigle" To: , "'Mark Kitchell'" , "'DC Cycles'" Subject: RE: Moto Death in DC Area Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 11:03:26 -0400 Exactly. I practice this when I commute home and I have a real hard time telling if the car behind me is going to stop in time. The difference between a slow driver and a more aggressive driver is significant. Now if they are coming up my tail at 50mph, 30 ft behind me I might be able to tell but that would probably be too late... Has anyone actually avoided being rear ended? If so, what happened? > -----Original Message----- > From: marcwashington@XXXXXX [mailto:marcwashington@XXXXXX] > Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 11:01 AM > To: jmcgonigle@XXXXXX; 'Mark Kitchell'; 'DC Cycles' > Subject: Re: Moto Death in DC Area > > > I guess it would depend, she may have never even hit her brakes.... > > > ----- Original Message ----- > Wrom: ZXUWLSZLKBRNVWWCUFPEGAUTFJMVRESKPNKMBIPBAR > To: "'Mark Kitchell'" ; "'DC Cycles'" > > Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 10:19 AM > Subject: RE: Moto Death in DC Area > > > > > > Prime time DWI time... Riding on Friday and Saturday > nights is asking > > for trouble. Too many drunks, show-offs and wanna be > racers out there. > > > > Not sure if I would recognize fast enough someone not > stopping behind me > > to get out of the way, especially at night. I hope Susan > gets here own > > personal cell for the next 30 years. > > > > -Jim > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > Wrom: HDMNNSKVFVWRKJVZCMHVIBGDADRZFSQHYUCDDJBLVLMHA > > > Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 9:50 AM > > > To: DC Cycles > > > Subject: Moto Death in DC Area > > > > > > > > > This was in today's Post. > > > > > > Lessons? Have you bike in gear at a light, with eyes > > > glued to the mirror? Don't ride on a Saturday night? > > > > > > Car Kills Motorcyclist Stopped at Light > > > > > > A motorcyclist who was stopped at a red light on > > > Baltimore National Pike in Ellicott City was killed > > > early yesterday when he was hit from behind by car, > > > police said. > > > > > > The 42-year-old Ellicott City resident was hit at > > > 12:15 a.m. and transported to Maryland Shock Trauma > > > Center, where he died. The driver, Susan Elizabeth > > > Williams, 34, of Ellicott City, was arrested and > > > charged with driving while intoxicated. > > > > > > > > > > > > ===== > > > www.deanforamerica.com > > > > > > __________________________________ > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > > > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 11:07:08 2003 Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 11:06:35 -0400 From: Skip To: Mark Kitchell CC: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Moto Death in DC Area Mark Kitchell wrote: > > This was in today's Post. > > Lessons? Have you bike in gear at a light, with eyes > glued to the mirror? Don't ride on a Saturday night? > > Car Kills Motorcyclist Stopped at Light > > A motorcyclist who was stopped at a red light on > Baltimore National Pike in Ellicott City was killed > early yesterday when he was hit from behind by car, > police said. > > The 42-year-old Ellicott City resident was hit at > 12:15 a.m. and transported to Maryland Shock Trauma > Center, where he died. The driver, Susan Elizabeth > Williams, 34, of Ellicott City, was arrested and > charged with driving while intoxicated. the lesson is that sitting at a redlight is not time to take a break from your constant vigilence and scanning for threats. I hadn't ever even thought about getting rammed from behind at a light, and read about it on a mailing list that I'm part of (sabmag.org -- **the** source for info about sabres and magnas). I was sitting at a light a couple days later. I'm about 3rd or 4th in line. I'm kind of zoning out, taking in the scenery. I look in my mirror and a van is approaching. he appears to be going full speed. he is not slowing down. I had the bike in gear. I see his front end dip as he realizes traffic isn't moving. I pull inbetween the rows of cars, and stop next to the driver's window of the car I was sitting behind. the lady turned her head to look at me, and at that moment the van slammed into her. I would have been killed, or worse, had I not moved. Sitting at a stoplight is not time for relaxing. they really are out to get you, and if you give them a moment's respite, they will kill you. --skip, bikeless maggot. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 11:10:15 2003 Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 08:09:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Moto Death in DC Area To: Skip Cc: DC Cycles Skip, that was a chilling story.... --- Skip wrote: > Mark Kitchell wrote: > > > > This was in today's Post. > > > > Lessons? Have you bike in gear at a light, with > eyes > > glued to the mirror? Don't ride on a Saturday > night? > > > > Car Kills Motorcyclist Stopped at Light > > > > A motorcyclist who was stopped at a red light on > > Baltimore National Pike in Ellicott City was > killed > > early yesterday when he was hit from behind by > car, > > police said. > > > > The 42-year-old Ellicott City resident was hit at > > 12:15 a.m. and transported to Maryland Shock > Trauma > > Center, where he died. The driver, Susan Elizabeth > > Williams, 34, of Ellicott City, was arrested and > > charged with driving while intoxicated. > > > the lesson is that sitting at a redlight is not time > to take a break from your > constant vigilence and scanning for threats. > > > I hadn't ever even thought about getting rammed from > behind at a light, and read > about it on a mailing list that I'm part of > (sabmag.org -- **the** source for > info about sabres and magnas). I was sitting at a > light a couple days later. > I'm about 3rd or 4th in line. I'm kind of zoning > out, taking in the scenery. I > look in my mirror and a van is approaching. he > appears to be going full speed. > he is not slowing down. I had the bike in gear. I > see his front end dip as he > realizes traffic isn't moving. I pull inbetween the > rows of cars, and stop next > to the driver's window of the car I was sitting > behind. the lady turned her > head to look at me, and at that moment the van > slammed into her. > > I would have been killed, or worse, had I not moved. > > Sitting at a stoplight is not time for relaxing. > they really are out to get > you, and if you give them a moment's respite, they > will kill you. > > --skip, bikeless maggot. ===== www.deanforamerica.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 11:14:29 2003 Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 11:11:55 -0400 To: Mark Kitchell , DC Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Annoy People At 06:54 AM 9/8/03 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote: >This is from the Post on Saturday. While he is >probably not correct in stating that these bikes have >'no' muffler (what a about a straight pipe on a >harley) his point should be well taken. Whether its a >loud sportbike or crazy crazy loud Harley, such antics >do not endear us to anyone. I tend to agree with you and Dr. Gridlock. The "look at me!" attitude of those who like overly loud pipes does tick off people in the same way that boom boxes do...it's a mild form of assault/intimidation/invasion of space or whatever. Annoying anyway. The loud pipes owner's motivation may not have anything to do with that stuff, but that's how others tend to view the situation. Pipes for performance is fine, but sound limits need to be considered too, or laws will get passed and they are more than likely going to be far more restrictive than necessary or desirable. Trucks and sports cars are often as loud or louder, but people in general aren't rational about this sort of thing. When I was a kid we lived in Scotland for a while, and the Navy got complaints all the time about the noise of the launches used to move crew between the ships anchored in Holy Loch and shore. My dad got assigned to drive around the loch all night with a sound level meter to collect data. Turns out that the loudest thing there were the double-decker busses...several times louder than the boats, and much closer to homes...but people were used to that. The boats were new and different so they got noticed, and complained about. The Navy added mufflers that exhausted underwater and the complaints went away. I was chatting with a neighbor yesterday afternoon in his driveway. A guy down the block took off on his Harley, and my neighbor's first comment wasn't "cool bike!" or "looks like fun!" it was "hey, that's pretty quiet!" (it sounded like the stock pipes, and the guy wasn't winding it out, just riding it away). People who aren't bikers shouldn't be surprised like that when a bike *doesn't* assault their ears... -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 11:18:05 2003 Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 11:17:15 -0400 From: Skip To: Mark Kitchell CC: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Moto Death in DC Area Mark Kitchell wrote: > > Skip, that was a chilling story.... Yeah, I was a bit paranoid after that. I didn't really get the whole "keep your head on a swivel", "constant vigilence", "they're out to kill you" sayings. --skip > > --- Skip wrote: > > Mark Kitchell wrote: > > > > > > This was in today's Post. > > > > > > Lessons? Have you bike in gear at a light, with > > eyes > > > glued to the mirror? Don't ride on a Saturday > > night? > > > > > > Car Kills Motorcyclist Stopped at Light > > > > > > A motorcyclist who was stopped at a red light on > > > Baltimore National Pike in Ellicott City was > > killed > > > early yesterday when he was hit from behind by > > car, > > > police said. > > > > > > The 42-year-old Ellicott City resident was hit at > > > 12:15 a.m. and transported to Maryland Shock > > Trauma > > > Center, where he died. The driver, Susan Elizabeth > > > Williams, 34, of Ellicott City, was arrested and > > > charged with driving while intoxicated. > > > > > > the lesson is that sitting at a redlight is not time > > to take a break from your > > constant vigilence and scanning for threats. > > > > > > I hadn't ever even thought about getting rammed from > > behind at a light, and read > > about it on a mailing list that I'm part of > > (sabmag.org -- **the** source for > > info about sabres and magnas). I was sitting at a > > light a couple days later. > > I'm about 3rd or 4th in line. I'm kind of zoning > > out, taking in the scenery. I > > look in my mirror and a van is approaching. he > > appears to be going full speed. > > he is not slowing down. I had the bike in gear. I > > see his front end dip as he > > realizes traffic isn't moving. I pull inbetween the > > rows of cars, and stop next > > to the driver's window of the car I was sitting > > behind. the lady turned her > > head to look at me, and at that moment the van > > slammed into her. > > > > I would have been killed, or worse, had I not moved. > > > > Sitting at a stoplight is not time for relaxing. > > they really are out to get > > you, and if you give them a moment's respite, they > > will kill you. > > > > --skip, bikeless maggot. > > ===== > www.deanforamerica.com > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 11:18:19 2003 Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 11:18:07 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Erick Singley Subject: RE: Moto Death in DC Area >Exactly. I practice this when I commute home and I have a real hard >time telling if the car behind me is going to stop in time. The >difference between a slow driver and a more aggressive driver is >significant. Now if they are coming up my tail at 50mph, 30 ft behind >me I might be able to tell but that would probably be too late... > >Has anyone actually avoided being rear ended? If so, what happened? Our MSF instructor told of a time on Rt 32 where she was coming up on a tractor trailer that was stopping quickly - so she leaned and dodged onto the shoulder. The lady behind her did not stop in time and hit the back of the semi. The car driver then blamed the instructor for distracting and confusing her with the cycle maneuver. The instructor was stunned, 'so my option should have been to chance getting rammed between you two?' In the MD MSF class, we practiced dodging around a school bus shaped area of cones with that in mind... Erick 74' CB-750. - Sunday - new inline fuel filter. new points. timing set nicely. found rear brake nut missing :( back to parts shop soon. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 11:18:28 2003 Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 08:18:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Annoy People To: DC Cycles Loud pipes are certainly a form of assault. One time I was eating in Old Town Alexandria in a place near the river with open windows. Harleys were congregating in Old Town (as they do) and three were parked in front of the restaurant. They fire up the engines and the noise was so loud that a wine glass near the window went falling off a table. Everyone winced in pain at the noise. --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 06:54 AM 9/8/03 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote: > >This is from the Post on Saturday. While he is > >probably not correct in stating that these bikes > have > >'no' muffler (what a about a straight pipe on a > >harley) his point should be well taken. Whether > its a > >loud sportbike or crazy crazy loud Harley, such > antics > >do not endear us to anyone. > > I tend to agree with you and Dr. Gridlock. The > "look at me!" attitude of > those who like overly loud pipes does tick off > people in the same way that > boom boxes do...it's a mild form of > assault/intimidation/invasion of space > or whatever. Annoying anyway. The loud pipes > owner's motivation may not > have anything to do with that stuff, but that's how > others tend to view the > situation. > > Pipes for performance is fine, but sound limits need > to be considered too, > or laws will get passed and they are more than > likely going to be far more > restrictive than necessary or desirable. Trucks and > sports cars are often > as loud or louder, but people in general aren't > rational about this sort of > thing. > > When I was a kid we lived in Scotland for a while, > and the Navy got > complaints all the time about the noise of the > launches used to move crew > between the ships anchored in Holy Loch and shore. > My dad got assigned to > drive around the loch all night with a sound level > meter to collect data. > Turns out that the loudest thing there were the > double-decker > busses...several times louder than the boats, and > much closer to > homes...but people were used to that. The boats > were new and different so > they got noticed, and complained about. The Navy > added mufflers that > exhausted underwater and the complaints went away. > > I was chatting with a neighbor yesterday afternoon > in his driveway. A guy > down the block took off on his Harley, and my > neighbor's first comment > wasn't "cool bike!" or "looks like fun!" it was > "hey, that's pretty quiet!" > (it sounded like the stock pipes, and the guy > wasn't winding it out, just > riding it away). People who aren't bikers shouldn't > be surprised like that > when a bike *doesn't* assault their ears... > > -- Mike B. > > **************************************************************************** > * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered > Obfuscation Obliterated * > * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled > Opinions Offered * > * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined > Smiles Stimulated * > *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* > * "We do it all! No job too small! No > price too high! * > **************************************************************************** ===== www.deanforamerica.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 11:25:52 2003 Subject: Re: Moto Death in DC Area From: Brian Roach To: Skip Cc: Mark Kitchell , DC Cycles Date: 08 Sep 2003 11:24:58 -0400 On Mon, 2003-09-08 at 11:06, Skip wrote: > the lesson is that sitting at a redlight is not time to take a break from your > constant vigilence and scanning for threats. Yup ... had the same thing happen in '98. I was sitting at a light on Duke St in Alex, the one for the exit of landmark mall right after you get off 395. It was during the day, so it was a bit easier than a nighttime scenario. I too always leave the bike in gear at a stoplight, and scan my mirrors. I see a car approaching at what I thought was a bit too high of speed, and can clearly see the woman driving is looking over at the passenger seat (I assume to find something VERY important ... like a CD ...). She was still probably 50 yards away, but at that moment I made the command decision that this was NOT going to go well. I hit the gas and went to the left alongside the cars in front of me ... just as I heard the tell-tale screech of her locking up her brakes. Not only did she careen off one of the cars in the lane to the right of her, she rear-ended the car I was previously sitting behind at a pretty good clip. - Roach From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 11:38:15 2003 Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 11:36:58 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Skip CC: Mark Kitchell , DC Cycles Subject: Re: Moto Death in DC Area Skip wrote: > Mark Kitchell wrote: > > > > Skip, that was a chilling story.... > > Yeah, I was a bit paranoid after that. > > I didn't really get the whole "keep your head on a swivel", "constant > vigilence", "they're out to kill you" sayings. > > --skip > Yeppers. I've squeezed over into an open space twice in my long life to avoid getting banged in the ass. Once on a motorcycle, and like Skip's thrill, the offending on the brakes too late vehicle whammered the ass of the car I was behind. Just a love tap, but it probably would've squished me'n my scoot. Back in `62 I ran into one of those notorious Elizabeth NJ fogs - mega-brake lights looming outta the soup. Whoa, shit! Me be cranking the ol' `53 Study down and decide, very quickly, to bail. I swerved to the shoulder and came to a nice easy stop, and then... *KEERASH-KABOOM-KACRUNCH-KERSMASH* End result of the carnage = 11 cars in front of me before I bailed to the shoulder were trashed beyond redemtion by the muchly surprised driver who blasted into the fog at 65 MPH and never touched his brakes. Oh yeah, kept a half dozen ambulances busy carting of the wounded. Twas more'n hour sitting on my hood before the mess got cleaned up enough to venture forth. Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 11:39:43 2003 Subject: Wheelies From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 08 Sep 2003 11:35:30 -0400 On my way home Friday afternoon I spied a sport biker standing tall on his wheelying bike. In the center of the northbound lanes northbound and he was approaching Crystal City. Traffic was moderately heavy. Saturday while going for lunch, as I passed a sport bike on his right on Darbydale Road in Woodbridge, he popped a wheelie and rode it for 20 or 30 feet. As we came around the bend, he spied the cop on the left side and slowed right down. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 11:39:43 2003 From: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" To: "'Mark Kitchell'" , DC Cycles Subject: RE: Loud Pipes Annoy People Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 11:39:23 -0400 I am all for being respectful to others but I think I'd rather one of thos big suvs hear me cause they sure don't see my big Yellow bike. -----Original Message----- From: Mark Kitchell [mailto:markkitchell@XXXXXX] Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 11:18 AM To: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Annoy People Loud pipes are certainly a form of assault. One time I was eating in Old Town Alexandria in a place near the river with open windows. Harleys were congregating in Old Town (as they do) and three were parked in front of the restaurant. They fire up the engines and the noise was so loud that a wine glass near the window went falling off a table. Everyone winced in pain at the noise. --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 06:54 AM 9/8/03 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote: > >This is from the Post on Saturday. While he is > >probably not correct in stating that these bikes > have > >'no' muffler (what a about a straight pipe on a > >harley) his point should be well taken. Whether > its a > >loud sportbike or crazy crazy loud Harley, such > antics > >do not endear us to anyone. > > I tend to agree with you and Dr. Gridlock. The > "look at me!" attitude of > those who like overly loud pipes does tick off > people in the same way that > boom boxes do...it's a mild form of > assault/intimidation/invasion of space > or whatever. Annoying anyway. The loud pipes > owner's motivation may not > have anything to do with that stuff, but that's how > others tend to view the > situation. > > Pipes for performance is fine, but sound limits need > to be considered too, > or laws will get passed and they are more than > likely going to be far more > restrictive than necessary or desirable. Trucks and > sports cars are often > as loud or louder, but people in general aren't > rational about this sort of > thing. > > When I was a kid we lived in Scotland for a while, > and the Navy got > complaints all the time about the noise of the > launches used to move crew > between the ships anchored in Holy Loch and shore. > My dad got assigned to > drive around the loch all night with a sound level > meter to collect data. > Turns out that the loudest thing there were the > double-decker > busses...several times louder than the boats, and > much closer to > homes...but people were used to that. The boats > were new and different so > they got noticed, and complained about. The Navy > added mufflers that > exhausted underwater and the complaints went away. > > I was chatting with a neighbor yesterday afternoon > in his driveway. A guy > down the block took off on his Harley, and my > neighbor's first comment > wasn't "cool bike!" or "looks like fun!" it was > "hey, that's pretty quiet!" > (it sounded like the stock pipes, and the guy > wasn't winding it out, just > riding it away). People who aren't bikers shouldn't > be surprised like that > when a bike *doesn't* assault their ears... > > -- Mike B. > > **************************************************************************** > * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered > Obfuscation Obliterated * > * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled > Opinions Offered * > * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined > Smiles Stimulated * > *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* > * "We do it all! No job too small! No > price too high! * > **************************************************************************** ===== www.deanforamerica.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 11:46:16 2003 Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 11:35:32 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: RE: Moto Death in DC Area To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Jim asked: >Has anyone actually avoided being rear ended? If so, what happened? [Dave] Yes, on Kingstowne Blvd on the Ninja. I was coming to a stop at one of the shopping center lights just before the left turn heading to Springfield. I'd already geared down & was coming to a stop, brakes applied, and I caught view of a car I knew wouldn't be able to stop behind me. I swerved right to the line -right next to a car, and sure enough, the car blazed past me smoke pouring from all 4 locked up wheels screeching to a halt in the intersection. He backed up, out of the intersection... The limit is 25 there, which I think is a bit underposted, but this guy had to be doing 50-60. Tan saturn, NC plates. I wasn't the only vehicle around, there were 2 cages on both sides of me coming to a stop for the same red light, but I would've been the 1st vehicle at the light in this particular lane. Thank you MSF. Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 11:50:06 2003 Wrom: NNYCGPKYLEJGDGVCJVTLBXFGGMEPYOQKEDOTWFAOBU To: , "'Mark Kitchell'" , "'DC Cycles'" Subject: Re: Moto Death in DC Area Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 11:00:33 -0400 X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original Seal-Send-Time: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 11:00:33 -0400 From: marcwashington@XXXXXX I guess it would depend, she may have never even hit her brakes.... ----- Original Message ----- Wrom: ZXUWLSZLKBRNVWWCUFPEGAUTFJMVRESKPNKMBIPBAR To: "'Mark Kitchell'" ; "'DC Cycles'" Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 10:19 AM Subject: RE: Moto Death in DC Area > > Prime time DWI time... Riding on Friday and Saturday nights is asking > for trouble. Too many drunks, show-offs and wanna be racers out there. > > Not sure if I would recognize fast enough someone not stopping behind me > to get out of the way, especially at night. I hope Susan gets here own > personal cell for the next 30 years. > > -Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > > Wrom: HDMNNSKVFVWRKJVZCMHVIBGDADRZFSQHYUCDDJBLVLMHA > > Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 9:50 AM > > To: DC Cycles > > Subject: Moto Death in DC Area > > > > > > This was in today's Post. > > > > Lessons? Have you bike in gear at a light, with eyes > > glued to the mirror? Don't ride on a Saturday night? > > > > Car Kills Motorcyclist Stopped at Light > > > > A motorcyclist who was stopped at a red light on > > Baltimore National Pike in Ellicott City was killed > > early yesterday when he was hit from behind by car, > > police said. > > > > The 42-year-old Ellicott City resident was hit at > > 12:15 a.m. and transported to Maryland Shock Trauma > > Center, where he died. The driver, Susan Elizabeth > > Williams, 34, of Ellicott City, was arrested and > > charged with driving while intoxicated. > > > > > > > > ===== > > www.deanforamerica.com > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 11:50:28 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "dc-cycles list" Subject: Avoiding be Rear-ended Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 11:49:01 -0400 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim McGonigle" ... > > Has anyone actually avoided being rear ended? If so, what happened? > Yes, I've avoided it, but not from a total stop. The scene SE/SW Freeway in DC. Morning rush. There's a sudden slow down and it's pretty clear to me from the scene in my mirrors that the car following me isn't going to make it, so I swerve up between the cages in front of me. Following car manages to avoid hitting the car in front of him after much tire squealing and drama. Granted I was already moving. Moral of the story: watch your six and always position yourself so you have an escape route. *Never* stop or slow directly behind another vehicle. Especially when you're on the brakes or at a full stop, watch your mirrors. Of course, I've also been *unsuccessful* at avoiding being rear-ended. http://users.erols.com/pawilson/vfr/part1.htm and http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~lists/archive/vfr/200307/msg00757.html and http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~lists/archive/vfr/200307/msg01252.html Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 12:02:35 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: "'vfr@XXXXXX'" , "'DCCycles'" Subject: Bedliner a tank? Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 12:04:31 -0400 Has anyone ever heard of putting a smooth coat of spray-on bedliner to do the outside of a tank? Now that the VFR is totaled, I'm gonna go silver, and instead of shelling out for a silver tank, thought maybe a black bedliner coating on the ol' tank would work well. Attributes would be: gas spills won't touch it, no more dings or scratches in the 'paint', the tank bag sure won't go anywhere now, possible cool look with the silver. Any thoughts? Mike 96 VFR 88 Hawk 76 CB400F From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 12:03:56 2003 Subject: Re: Garage Help... From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 08 Sep 2003 11:59:45 -0400 I had my garage door give way when I was shutting it (button next to the door). Scared the sh*t out of me. It was a single spring mounted over the door. I had someone come out to replace the spring. A couple of years ago the bottom disintegrated so I built a new bottom panel. I unbolted the panels and just lifted them off of one another. As a single piece they weren't that heavy. I got rid of the junk and built a new one and then put it back together. Putting the cables onto the bottom panel was the hardest part. I lifted the doors up and held them in place with a pair of vice grips and two sawhorses. (You could just drive the bike through the house ;-) Carl On Sun, 2003-09-07 at 21:56, Rob Keiser wrote: > After a nice day of watching football and finishing a couple small home > projects, I hit the close garage door button and enter my kitchen. It all > seemed so normal, as I have done for the past 10 or so years. > > Then, chaos. The sound for glass breaking, plastic hitting the concrete > floor, and my heart in my throat as I imagined my beloved VFR falling over. > But how? It was on the center stand right as I had left it after changing > it's oil and filter. > > Expecting the worst, I throw open the door to see my bike standing right > where I had left it but a few items scattered about. What the....? > > Apparently, as the door was lowering, one of the springs gave up the fight > and finally let got, taking a few casualties with it. (fluorescent bulbs, > furnace filter, etc.) Phew! > > But now what? I can't open the door. Anybody have any recommendations for > places that fix/replace garage door springs? This isn't something I intend > to even try, so let's hear it. > > At least my cage is in the driveway. Thanks in advanced! > > Rob > '98 VFR800 (stuck inside) :( > > _________________________________________________________________ > Need more e-mail storage? Get 10MB with Hotmail Extra Storage. > http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 12:13:56 2003 Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 09:13:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: Bedliner a tank? To: Michael Lynch , "'vfr@XXXXXX'" , "'DCCycles'" I have a friend who does the Vortex bedliner. He can put that stuff on anything and if you want he can probably do it in Silver too. If you want his information hit me up offline. Glenn --- Michael Lynch wrote: > Has anyone ever heard of putting a smooth coat of > spray-on bedliner to do > the outside of a tank? Now that the VFR is totaled, > I'm gonna go silver, > and instead of shelling out for a silver tank, > thought maybe a black > bedliner coating on the ol' tank would work well. > Attributes would be: gas > spills won't touch it, no more dings or scratches in > the 'paint', the tank > bag sure won't go anywhere now, possible cool look > with the silver. > > Any thoughts? > > Mike > 96 VFR > 88 Hawk > 76 CB400F > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 12:16:27 2003 Subject: RE: Moto Death in DC Area From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 08 Sep 2003 12:12:18 -0400 On Mon, 2003-09-08 at 11:03, Jim McGonigle wrote: > Has anyone actually avoided being rear ended? If so, what happened? > Well, I avoided rear-ending someone. While driving to work many years ago, I was on 234 going through Manassas when the light changed in front of the Volvo that was in front of me. She was only a few feet away and decided to stop for the light. Of course I was close enough that I was sure I could make the light so I hit the gas, just in time to see her brake lights pop on. I left a little rubber on the road and a present in the seat ;-) Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 12:26:34 2003 Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 12:20:25 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: RE: Loud Pipes Annoy People To: DC Cycles >I am all for being respectful to others but I think I'd >rather one of those big suvs hear me cause they sure don't >see my big Yellow bike. [Dave] Horn maybe? Even muffled aftermarket pipes would be fine. Just not those ridiculously silly, poseur, open "drag pipes". Full song drag pipes can easily drown out a fire or police siren, which is around 120 db - right at the "pain" threshold. Not much above that is the risk of permanent hearing shift. It does not take many exposures to cause a hearing shift, and it's permanent. What's more, drag pipes hurt torque except for wide open, so street power is hard hit, requiring you to use more throttle to get the same effect you had before in forward motion as with quieter stock pipes. Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 12:27:39 2003 Subject: New ride From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 08 Sep 2003 12:23:28 -0400 Well, new to me anyway. Tim is dropping off the title and the Suzuki GSXR 750 at my place tonight. He says the chain needs to be replaced, it needs a tune up and new battery. Of course the speedo needs to be fixed as well. More toys :-) Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 12:31:33 2003 Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 12:31:29 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: Bedliner a tank? At 12:04 PM 9/8/2003, you wrote: >Has anyone ever heard of putting a smooth coat of spray-on bedliner to do >the outside of a tank? Now that the VFR is totaled, I'm gonna go silver, >and instead of shelling out for a silver tank, thought maybe a black >bedliner coating on the ol' tank would work well. Attributes would be: gas >spills won't touch it, no more dings or scratches in the 'paint', the tank >bag sure won't go anywhere now, possible cool look with the silver. I like Line-X in a truck, but it is fairly rough and somewhat thick. Not sure I would like that on a tank. Not sure how magnets would work with it on a tank bag either. Is scratching the tank that big of a deal? I wash the bike every month or two and give it a coat of wax in the spring and fall. Most scratches buff out, the others are a testament to riding. Oh - and Randy Moran - if you are reading this ... I was THIS CLOSE to stopping by your house for a long look at the SV650. I came to my senses and realized that if I stopped or even rode it ... I would wind up buying it. And we can't have that. We just bought a new F150 and Thunderbird about two weeks ago. The last thing I need (but really want) is a beautiful fun hooligan bike in the garage. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org 2000 Durango SLT 4x4 4.7 44k miles For sale $16k http://classifieds.autos.yahoo.com/class/detail.html?cid=automobiles-1061168440-6238393 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 12:37:59 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Moto Death in DC Area Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 12:40:20 -0400 On the GW Parkway I almost tagged a Volvo. A cop had someone pulled over on the other side, and the lady in front of me wasn't contented to just look over and keep going. For her, it was necessary to SLAM on her brakes, even though the traffic on our side was still moving. Of course, I looked over too, but when I looked back, all I saw was a whole lot of Volvo ass-end in the air. What happened next I can only attribute to pure survival instinct, because I sure as hell didn't have enough time to actually *think* of anything. Without touching the brakes, I banked hard right (starting in left lane) clearing her RR corner by a billionth of an inch, then banked hard left at the dotted line and passed by her and rode even with the car that was taking up the right lane. Holyshit. I still can't believe the tires stuck. Mike 96 VFR - thanks, bud 88 Hawk 76 CB400F > -----Original Message----- > From: Carl Schelin [SMTP:cschelin@XXXXXX] > > Well, I avoided rear-ending someone. > > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 12:42:42 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: "'Troutman'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Bedliner a tank? Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 12:45:03 -0400 The thing with bedliner is they can put it on as smooth and as thin as you want it. Mike 96 VFR 88 Hawk 76 CB400F > -----Original Message----- > From: Troutman [SMTP:mike@XXXXXX] > Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 12:31 PM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Bedliner a tank? > > At 12:04 PM 9/8/2003, you wrote: > >Has anyone ever heard of putting a smooth coat of spray-on bedliner to do > >the outside of a tank? Now that the VFR is totaled, I'm gonna go silver, > >and instead of shelling out for a silver tank, thought maybe a black > >bedliner coating on the ol' tank would work well. Attributes would be: > gas > >spills won't touch it, no more dings or scratches in the 'paint', the > tank > >bag sure won't go anywhere now, possible cool look with the silver. > > I like Line-X in a truck, but it is fairly rough and somewhat thick. Not > sure I would like that on a tank. Not sure how magnets would work with it > > on a tank bag either. Is scratching the tank that big of a deal? I wash > the bike every month or two and give it a coat of wax in the spring and > fall. Most scratches buff out, the others are a testament to riding. > > Oh - and Randy Moran - if you are reading this ... I was THIS CLOSE to > stopping by your house for a long look at the SV650. I came to my senses > and realized that if I stopped or even rode it ... I would wind up buying > it. And we can't have that. We just bought a new F150 and Thunderbird > about two weeks ago. The last thing I need (but really want) is a > beautiful fun hooligan bike in the garage. > > > > ___________________________________________ > Mike Troutman > http://www.troutman.org/vfr > 1997 Honda VFR 750 > AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ > NMA http://www.motorists.org > > 2000 Durango SLT 4x4 4.7 44k miles For sale $16k > http://classifieds.autos.yahoo.com/class/detail.html?cid=automobiles-10611 > 68440-6238393 > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 12:42:44 2003 Subject: Yesterday's Ride From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 08 Sep 2003 12:38:34 -0400 I talked Rita into going down to Westmorland State Park in Westmorland county. We headed out on the bike at about 10am. Beautiful day for a ride. I got off at Stafford and took 640 to 608. I made a left instead of a right and we headed off to Aquia Landing. Nice easy curves and canopied road. I had noticed the the SUV behind me and occasionally snuck a peek. One one of the straightaways someone on a sport bike zoomed past me (and I mean _zoomed_). I never even saw him coming. A few minutes later I saw him coming towards me since Aquia Landing is a dead-end. We turned around and headed back making the left at 608 and heading south. After a bit I was looking for a sign pointing us to Fredericksburg. Eventually we got to 605. Flipping a coin I went right and came upon 218 which was the road we were looking for. A fast left and we were on our way to Colonial Beach. We passed the other side of 605 a few miles down the road. Of course 218 has lots of nice turns and a couple of humps where you can't see the other side. A nice ride nonetheless. At 301 we crossed over and rode down to 205 making a left. At the colonial beach light we made a left and headed downtown. We stopped at the public parking and walked around a bit. At the tourist office Rita found a nice place to eat (The Happy Clam) and I snagged a Westmorland State Park map. We had lunch, eyeing the three GoldWings and then headed to the park. We followed 205 down to 3, made a left and, after passing Washington's Birthplace, we made a left into the park. It was a nice ride up to the gate and beyond. $4 to get in. We went down to the far end of the park where the swimming pool is located (450 capacity). I parked and we walked on the beach all the way down to the DANGER sign. There were 10 or 15 folks scrounging around in the "sand", a couple of girls with metal detectors and one guy with a metal mesh scoop poking around under the pier. On the way back we briefly chatted with the guy at the pier. It seems he was hunting for sharks teeth. We hopped on the bike and headed up to Campground A where we parked again. We hiked down to Big Meadows and the beach were we found garbage, a few dead fish and a dead crab. Rita found a stripper's advertisement card. We hiked back up the trail and then out to the cliff face (protected by a fence). It was getting late (about 3:30pm) so we decided to head home. A ride up Rt 3 into Fredericksburg and to 95 north. All in all, it was a very nice day for a ride. Very very little traffic, not many people at the park, the restaurant was about half full. Beautiful day for a ride. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 12:47:16 2003 Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 09:47:08 -0700 (PDT) From: "Louis F. Caplan" Subject: Re: Avoiding be Rear-ended To: dc-cycles list From: "Jim McGonigle" > Has anyone actually avoided being rear ended? If so, what happened? I wish... I was in my cage (fan switch broken on the bike) and just came to a stop in the right lane at a red light on Lee Highway in Fairfax. Looked in my rear view mirror, and saw the guy behind me wasn't going to stop in time. Was a line of stopped cars in the left lane, and saw that there was enough room on the shoulder... if I was on the bike that is... *sigh* Instead, I just lifted my foot off the brake for a second, said "Oh SSSSSHHHH......" *Bam* Managed to avoid hitting the guy in front of me. Then the light turned green, and the #^#@$ took off. Had a witness chase him, but he got away. Having my in-laws come down later that day to see our new daughter didn't help to brighten my day either. ;-) Louis ===== "Admiral" Louis Caplan 1998 Kawasaki Concours Fairfax, VA Please consider helping me support the Pediatrics Brain Tumor Foundation http://www.geocities.com/nighthawk700/rideforkids.htm __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 12:47:18 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 12:47:08 EDT Subject: Re: Moto Death in DC Area To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 9/8/2003 11:21:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time, es87m@XXXXXX writes: > In the MD MSF class, we practiced > dodging around a school bus shaped area of cones with that in mind... You mean they did not use a real bus? Wussys #:-) > John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 12:55:42 2003 Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 12:55:18 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Dan Brown Subject: Re: Bedliner a tank? At 12:04 PM 9/8/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Has anyone ever heard of putting a smooth coat of spray-on bedliner to do >the outside of a tank? There's a person or two on the NEDOD list who have used "Rhinocoat" on various parts of their (rat) bikes. Might be worth a look. See: http://www.foxharp.boston.ma.us/bikes/rhino/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 12:58:48 2003 Subject: Re: Avoiding be Rear-ended From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 08 Sep 2003 12:54:38 -0400 On Mon, 2003-09-08 at 12:47, Louis F. Caplan wrote: > From: "Jim McGonigle" > > Has anyone actually avoided being rear ended? If so, what happened? > > I wish... I was in my cage (fan switch broken on the bike) and just came to a > stop in the right lane at a red light on Lee Highway in Fairfax. Looked in my > rear view mirror, and saw the guy behind me wasn't going to stop in time. Was > a line of stopped cars in the left lane, and saw that there was enough room on > the shoulder... if I was on the bike that is... *sigh* Instead, I just lifted > my foot off the brake for a second, said "Oh SSSSSHHHH......" *Bam* Managed > to avoid hitting the guy in front of me. Then the light turned green, and the > #^#@$ took off. Had a witness chase him, but he got away. > Oh well, if you want to get into _being_ in accidents. My first car was a 74 Ford Pinto, yellow in color. In 76 I was up in Odenton and making a left into the houses past the strip when I spied a blue and white car in my rear view mirror. When I saw the ass-end come up (the car got longer all of a sudden) and then saw it start to hitch to the right, I realized I was going to get hit. I put one foot on the brake and one on the clutch and my arms over my head. She hit my car at an angle and shot to the left across traffic hitting the street sign. I had the spare tire in the passenger seat next to me and the car had died. I hopped out and gas was leaking by the rear tire. I went across the road and checked out the lady. The cops arrived at about the same time. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 13:06:12 2003 Subject: RE: Moto Death in DC Area From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 08 Sep 2003 13:02:00 -0400 On Mon, 2003-09-08 at 12:40, Michael Lynch wrote: > On the GW Parkway I almost tagged a Volvo. A cop had someone pulled over on > the other side, and the lady in front of me wasn't contented to just look > over and keep going. For her, it was necessary to SLAM on her brakes, even > though the traffic on our side was still moving. Of course, I looked over > too, but when I looked back, all I saw was a whole lot of Volvo ass-end in > the air. What happened next I can only attribute to pure survival instinct, > because I sure as hell didn't have enough time to actually *think* of > anything. Without touching the brakes, I banked hard right (starting in > left lane) clearing her RR corner by a billionth of an inch, then banked > hard left at the dotted line and passed by her and rode even with the car > that was taking up the right lane. Holyshit. > Whew, good job there. Coming home yesterday in the right lane on 95 just south of 234 was the pothole from hell. A lovely divit that could have flung us into traffic if we'd hit it wrong. It was a basketball sized hole which had a ramp down. The break started on the left and curved ahead and then to the right. Had we gone in too close to the left, it could have pushed the front tire to the right and dropped us right there. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 13:20:08 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 13:19:54 EDT Subject: Re: Not crashing, (a better topic) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 9/8/2003 1:01:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, es87m@XXXXXX writes: > "I don't want to hit that. I don't want to hit > that.' -- and of course hit in since that's what she was > looking/fixated on. Oh I could tell stories! And will. I was watching a class once (my wife was in it) and a student got a little confused and then "target fixated" on one of the instructors. He rolled pretty far before coming to a stop. No one was hurt. _Nothing_ scares an instructor more then the "deer eyes in the headlight" look when the student is staring at him/her. As an old dirt racer I used to ride enduros, a cross country speed timed (Ya, right, I can go that fast) anyhow you cannot preride the course so you have no idea what is around the next corner. I can tell you two things, one, that looking at the __________ )Fill in the blank rock, stump, anything,) guarantees hitting it, and two that _not_ looking at it is HARD, at the time it is the only thing in the world, but you must look where you want to go, not at the ___________. You learned a valuable lesson. Good on you! Loud pipes quell cells. 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 13:33:38 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: Subject: Re: RE: Loud Pipes Annoy People Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 13:33:31 -0400 > > From: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" > Date: 2003/09/08 Mon AM 11:39:23 EDT > To: "'Mark Kitchell'" , > DC Cycles > > Subject: RE: Loud Pipes Annoy People > > I am all for being respectful to others but I think I'd rather one of thos > big suvs hear me cause they sure don't see my big Yellow bike. > There are far more effective ways to make them notice you than loud pipes. Many have been discussed on this list: headlight modulators, extra / blinking rear lights, neon vests, bright colored helmets.... Of course, most of these aren't cool, and the Harley crowd wouldn't be caught dead in them. Unless you're riding a gold wing or something with a similar barn-door size fairing, the color of the bike doesn't matter, because the frontal area of the bike is so small the color just isn't noticeable at a distance. Bob Meyer '92 ST1100, "Candy Glory Red", STOC # 1157 '02 919, "Asphalt" If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 13:37:14 2003 Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 10:37:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: RE: Loud Pipes Annoy People To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX YES. I will begine to consider that loud pipes make you safer when you are wearing a full face helmet, leathers, boots and gloves. Then we can talk. Hey, where did that Harley rider go? --- Bob Meyer wrote: > > > > > From: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" > > > Date: 2003/09/08 Mon AM 11:39:23 EDT > > To: "'Mark Kitchell'" , > > DC Cycles > > > > Subject: RE: Loud Pipes Annoy People > > > > I am all for being respectful to others but I > think I'd rather one of thos > > big suvs hear me cause they sure don't see my big > Yellow bike. > > > > There are far more effective ways to make them > notice you than loud pipes. Many have been discussed > on this list: headlight modulators, extra / > blinking rear lights, neon vests, bright colored > helmets.... Of course, most of these aren't cool, > and the Harley crowd wouldn't be caught dead in > them. > > Unless you're riding a gold wing or something with a > similar barn-door size fairing, the color of the > bike doesn't matter, because the frontal area of the > bike is so small the color just isn't noticeable at > a distance. > > Bob Meyer > '92 ST1100, "Candy Glory Red", STOC # 1157 > '02 919, "Asphalt" > > If you can't be a good example, then you'll just > have to be a horrible warning. > ===== www.deanforamerica.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 13:41:31 2003 Subject: Re: RE: Loud Pipes Annoy People From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 08 Sep 2003 13:37:18 -0400 On Mon, 2003-09-08 at 13:37, Mark Kitchell wrote: > YES. I will begine to consider that loud pipes make > you safer when you are wearing a full face helmet, > leathers, boots and gloves. Then we can talk. > > Hey, where did that Harley rider go? > Mmm, sorry. I wasn't paying attention. I'm right here, what's up? Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 13:50:26 2003 Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 13:51:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: RE: Loud Pipes Annoy People From: "Jeff Steele" To: "Mark Kitchell" Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Reply-To: jeff@XXXXXX > YES. I will begine to consider that loud pipes make > you safer when you are wearing a full face helmet, > leathers, boots and gloves. Then we can talk. > > Hey, where did that Harley rider go? I don't know if you are referring to me, but I ride a Harley and wear a flip-up helmet which some would consider a full-face (and some would not), either leather pants or draggin jeans depending on the temperature, leather boots, and leather gloves. I also have after-market pipes which have baffles but are still pretty loud. Obviously, people disagree about whether loud pipes save lives, but my personal experience is that a blip on the throttle can often get someone's attention off their cellphone and onto the fact that you are in their vicinity. I'm not sure the pipes are of much help on the beltway, but in the city they sure help let people know you are in their blindspot (where you will often be whether you like it or not given city traffic). Truth be known, while the sound is kind of fun, I don't like to annoy people and if I didn't really need those last few horses the pipes provide, I'd have kept my bike stock. Jeff Steele XLH Sportster 883 Hugger From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 13:57:16 2003 Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 14:02:26 -0400 (EDT) From: dan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: RE: Loud Pipes Annoy People On 8 Sep 2003, Carl Schelin wrote: > On Mon, 2003-09-08 at 13:37, Mark Kitchell wrote: > > YES. I will begine to consider that loud pipes make > > you safer when you are wearing a full face helmet, > > leathers, boots and gloves. Then we can talk. > > > > Hey, where did that Harley rider go? > > > > Mmm, sorry. I wasn't paying attention. I'm right here, what's up? > > Carl > I wear textiles and a full face. Is that good enough? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 14:06:35 2003 From: "Shigeru Honda" To: Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Annoy People + cage alarms Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 14:01:43 -0400 My SuperHawk has Two Brothers pipes and although I think its not that loud, once in awhile when I accelerate hard right next to a fancy cage it seems to be setting off the alarm for few seconds... I hope I'm not annoying anyone but has this happened to anybody else? --------------------- Shigeru Honda 98 SuperHawk (Street) 99 750 SS (Track) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Schelin" To: Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 1:37 PM Subject: Re: RE: Loud Pipes Annoy People > On Mon, 2003-09-08 at 13:37, Mark Kitchell wrote: > > YES. I will begine to consider that loud pipes make > > you safer when you are wearing a full face helmet, > > leathers, boots and gloves. Then we can talk. > > > > Hey, where did that Harley rider go? > > > > Mmm, sorry. I wasn't paying attention. I'm right here, what's up? > > Carl > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 14:09:37 2003 Subject: Re: RE: Loud Pipes Annoy People From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 08 Sep 2003 14:05:27 -0400 On Mon, 2003-09-08 at 13:51, Jeff Steele wrote: > > YES. I will begine to consider that loud pipes make > > you safer when you are wearing a full face helmet, > > leathers, boots and gloves. Then we can talk. > > > > Hey, where did that Harley rider go? > > I don't know if you are referring to me, but I ride a Harley and wear a > flip-up helmet which some would consider a full-face (and some would not), > either leather pants or draggin jeans depending on the temperature, > leather boots, and leather gloves. Fortunately the only person I have to explain my attire to is Rita. Even management here don't bother us with questions, based on the appearance of a few of my peers. > I also have after-market pipes which > have baffles but are still pretty loud. Yep. Screaming-Eagle II pipes. They are baffled and a bit on the loud side. > Obviously, people disagree about > whether loud pipes save lives, but my personal experience is that a blip > on the throttle can often get someone's attention off their cellphone and > onto the fact that you are in their vicinity. At a traffic light Saturday someone rolled up their window and moved their car forward while yacking on the cell phone. > I'm not sure the pipes are > of much help on the beltway, Rita has said that the bike's not that loud while at speed. > but in the city they sure help let people > know you are in their blindspot (where you will often be whether you like > it or not given city traffic). Truth be known, while the sound is kind of > fun, I don't like to annoy people and if I didn't really need those last > few horses the pipes provide, I'd have kept my bike stock. I asked for the SEI pipes but the dealer put on the SEII pipes instead telling me that I'd be back for the SEII pipes and that the II's are cheaper than the I's. I don't sit at the light blipping my throttle though and try to keep it quiet on the way out in the mornings. I just wish the others would do that too and that the kids would find somewhere else to race. 2am drag races aren't much fun if they're outside your window. And before you start, they've been drag racing out front since I've lived there (12 years now). > > Jeff Steele > XLH Sportster 883 Hugger > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 14:10:21 2003 Wrom: DXRQBGJSNBOHMKHJYFMYXOEAIJJPHSCRTNHGSWZIDR To: , "Shigeru Honda" Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Annoy People + cage alarms Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 14:10:04 -0400 X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original Seal-Send-Time: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 14:10:04 -0400 From: marcwashington@XXXXXX Yup my Superhawk with Jardines does the same. I love V Twins. ;) ----- Original Message ----- Wrom: EXCAXZOWCONEUQZAAFXISHJEXXIMQZUIVOTQNQE To: Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 2:01 PM Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Annoy People + cage alarms > My SuperHawk has Two Brothers pipes and although I think its not that > loud, > once in awhile when I accelerate hard right next to a fancy cage it seems > to > be setting off the alarm for few seconds... I hope I'm not annoying anyone > but has this happened to anybody else? > > > --------------------- > Shigeru Honda > 98 SuperHawk (Street) > 99 750 SS (Track) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > Wrom: MSFDULHPQQWOYIYZUNNYCGPKYLEJGDGVCJVTL > To: > Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 1:37 PM > Subject: Re: RE: Loud Pipes Annoy People > > > > On Mon, 2003-09-08 at 13:37, Mark Kitchell wrote: > > > YES. I will begine to consider that loud pipes make > > > you safer when you are wearing a full face helmet, > > > leathers, boots and gloves. Then we can talk. > > > > > > Hey, where did that Harley rider go? > > > > > > > Mmm, sorry. I wasn't paying attention. I'm right here, what's up? > > > > Carl > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 14:15:52 2003 Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Annoy People + cage alarms From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 08 Sep 2003 14:11:42 -0400 On Mon, 2003-09-08 at 14:01, Shigeru Honda wrote: > My SuperHawk has Two Brothers pipes and although I think its not that loud, > once in awhile when I accelerate hard right next to a fancy cage it seems to > be setting off the alarm for few seconds... I hope I'm not annoying anyone > but has this happened to anybody else? > That's why I don't think mine are that loud. I'm not setting off most of the alarms like one of my associates do when he rides down the same street. Yet, the pipes are loud enough that I regularly wear ear protection. For highway speeds though, it's because of the wind. There's a car on 14th street that I regularly set off when I come in for the morning shift. When I crossed Nigara and into Buffalo I set off a car alarm on the first street :-) Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 14:17:46 2003 Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 14:12:10 -0400 To: Michael Lynch , "'vfr@XXXXXX'" , "'DCCycles'" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Bedliner a tank? At 12:04 PM 9/8/03 -0400, Michael Lynch wrote: >Has anyone ever heard of putting a smooth coat of spray-on bedliner to do >the outside of a tank? Now that the VFR is totaled, I'm gonna go silver, >and instead of shelling out for a silver tank, thought maybe a black >bedliner coating on the ol' tank would work well. Attributes would be: gas >spills won't touch it, no more dings or scratches in the 'paint', the tank >bag sure won't go anywhere now, possible cool look with the silver. > >Any thoughts? Don't know how well it would work, but it seems to me that it might be worth talking to the folks who do that sort of thing. If you're willing to risk it, they might be willing to do it free to get some experience with doing tanks...could be a whole new line of business for them! :^) I'd be careful about how it affects your filler cap and other things attached on or near the tank...the bedliners I've seen aren't as thin as paint is. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 14:18:18 2003 Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 11:18:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: RE: Loud Pipes Annoy People To: jeff@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I was not referring to any particular rider, but simply generalizing/sterotyping (-: --- Jeff Steele wrote: > > YES. I will begine to consider that loud pipes > make > > you safer when you are wearing a full face helmet, > > leathers, boots and gloves. Then we can talk. > > > > Hey, where did that Harley rider go? > > I don't know if you are referring to me, but I ride > a Harley and wear a > flip-up helmet which some would consider a full-face > (and some would not), > either leather pants or draggin jeans depending on > the temperature, > leather boots, and leather gloves. I also have > after-market pipes which > have baffles but are still pretty loud. Obviously, > people disagree about > whether loud pipes save lives, but my personal > experience is that a blip > on the throttle can often get someone's attention > off their cellphone and > onto the fact that you are in their vicinity. I'm > not sure the pipes are > of much help on the beltway, but in the city they > sure help let people > know you are in their blindspot (where you will > often be whether you like > it or not given city traffic). Truth be known, > while the sound is kind of > fun, I don't like to annoy people and if I didn't > really need those last > few horses the pipes provide, I'd have kept my bike > stock. > > Jeff Steele > XLH Sportster 883 Hugger > > > ===== www.deanforamerica.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 14:24:28 2003 Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 14:24:27 -0400 To: Mark Kitchell , rmeyer9@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: RE: Loud Pipes Annoy People At 10:37 AM 9/8/03 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote: >YES. I will begine to consider that loud pipes make >you safer when you are wearing a full face helmet, >leathers, boots and gloves. Then we can talk. > >Hey, where did that Harley rider go? Probably to put on his full face helmet, leathers, boots and gloves...that's what I'll be doing in a couple of weeks, if reports of delivery date aren't inaccurate. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 14:25:16 2003 From: "Perry Coleman" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Annoy People + cage alarms Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 14:24:07 -0400 My Concours, with Cobra F1 exhausts, has been known to trigger car alarms, especially in multi-level garages. At the Redskin's game on Thursday, 3 motorcycle cops cruised past the ESPN stage and set off the alarm in a car parked about 10 yards away. Perry >From: "Shigeru Honda" >To: >Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Annoy People + cage alarms >Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 14:01:43 -0400 > >My SuperHawk has Two Brothers pipes and although I think its not that loud, >once in awhile when I accelerate hard right next to a fancy cage it seems >to >be setting off the alarm for few seconds... I hope I'm not annoying anyone >but has this happened to anybody else? > > >--------------------- >Shigeru Honda >98 SuperHawk (Street) >99 750 SS (Track) > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Carl Schelin" >To: >Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 1:37 PM >Subject: Re: RE: Loud Pipes Annoy People > > > > On Mon, 2003-09-08 at 13:37, Mark Kitchell wrote: > > > YES. I will begine to consider that loud pipes make > > > you safer when you are wearing a full face helmet, > > > leathers, boots and gloves. Then we can talk. > > > > > > Hey, where did that Harley rider go? > > > > > > > Mmm, sorry. I wasn't paying attention. I'm right here, what's up? > > > > Carl > > > _________________________________________________________________ Use custom emotions -- try MSN Messenger 6.0! http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/reach_emoticon From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 14:26:01 2003 Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 11:25:59 -0700 (PDT) From: dcpatti Subject: Re: Avoiding be Rear-ended To: Paul Wilson , dc-cycles list >> Has anyone actually avoided being rear ended? If so, what happened? > Yes, I've avoided it, but not from a total stop One of the scariest moments in my life was escaping being hit from behind, while waiting for a light to change. It was at night, and when I'm stopped like that at night I always keep the bike in gear and keep looking in my mirrors to see who is coming up in the rearview. As it became more obvious that the guy was not going to stop in time, I went ahead and made a quick right turn out of his way, with the car maybe 15 feet behind me. Turned out be the exact right thing, too, since the car just blew on through the red light. I would have been just squished. Still gives me the willies to think about it. I started really thinking about getting hit from behind after it happened to a good friend of mine (who is also a very experienced rider). The damage was severe, guy spent many weeks in the hospital with all sorts of broken things. I'm really glad I had a plan in mind when I did end up in that situation. I still play a lot of "what if" games while riding, so I'm always planning where the escape is, even if there's no actual danger. Because one of these days, it's not going to be an imaginary danger; it'll be a real one, and I'll be really glad again that I have my escape plan already in mind. Cheers, patti __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 14:35:54 2003 Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 14:31:49 -0400 To: jeff@XXXXXX, "Mark Kitchell" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: RE: Loud Pipes Annoy People Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 01:51 PM 9/8/03 -0400, Jeff Steele wrote: >know you are in their blindspot (where you will often be whether you like >it or not given city traffic). Given that most people don't have a clue how to adjust their mirrors, yep! My driving instructor in school took time to explain about blind spots, and even demonstrated it by getting out and standing in it and asking if we could see him (we couldn't). I wish he'd spent the time to learn how to adjust mirrors so he could have taught us that instead. My mirrors these days are adjusted such that a car, or bike, that is coming up beside me is visible in the rear view until it is visible in the side view. It stays in the side view until it is entering my peripheral vision. There isn't really much of a blindspot there. My method of adjusting things is to set the rear view to cover the entire rear window...this is pretty standard for most people. The left side is adjusted to that I can just see the side of my own car if I put my head over against the window. The right side I lean over until my head is over the center console, then adjust the right side until I can only see a sliver of my own car in it. This seems odd until you get used to it, but it gives you much better coverage as cars pass next to you than the usual method of aiming everything straight back while your head is in driving position. That overlaps the coverage, and loses you some...resulting in blind spots. If you need to see straight back in the side mirrors (a rare occurrence), you just lean over a bit. Try it, you might like it! :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 14:49:26 2003 From: "Charlie Ozark" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Avoiding be Rear-ended Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 14:37:57 -0400 lessons learned from everyone's near miss (or near-hit, as george carlin would say) while riding my (mountain) bike at college. i was stopped at T intersection, coming out of small subdivision street onto a 40 mph main road, 2 lanes both ways, neither of which had to stop for my street. had my left foot clipped into the pedal and my right on the curb, i was next to my stop sign waiting for a break from both directions so i could dart across the whole thing to sidewalk on the other side. car 1 was approaching from the left at speed, while car 2 (from my right) decides to make a left turn in front of car 1 (onto my street). car 1 swerves right (at me) and loses control when car 2 continues his left turn directly into car 1's driver door. the swerve and the hit cause car 1 to careene out of control at me - broadside from my left- i pushed forward ever so slightly and car 1 actually goes behind me, over the curb, and wraps itself around a tree in the front yard of the corner house. airbags deploy, windows shatter etc etc. i drop my bike and wander toward the car, everyone seems okay. my legs turned to jelly and i sat and waited for the cops to come. after about 45 minutes, and giving my witness, i get on my bike and head towards my class. as i rode, i found my rear wheel out of true and rubbing my brakes. turns out car 1 actually grazed my rear tire before jumping the curb! way too many factors that could have had car 1 run right through me...i have never ridden without a helmet since (not that it would have mattered then). _________________________________________________________________ Fast, faster, fastest: Upgrade to Cable or DSL today! https://broadband.msn.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 15:01:47 2003 From: Larry Meyer To: dc-cycles list Subject: Re: Avoiding be Rear-ended Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 15:01:39 -0400 In addition to all these excellent techniques, I'd also recommend hyperlites. They flash brightly and quickly when the brakes are applied. All the riders who follow me love them because they're so visible. Cagers often stop well behind me then pull up slowly, I believe because they don't know what the flashing lights mean and don't want to get too close. The important thing - that cage barreling down on you from behind probably has a half-asleep distracted driver behind the wheel. Show that driver something unexpected, like flashing lights, and he's much more likely to wake up. But keep alert anyway. Larry Meyer '97 Bandit 1200 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 15:13:25 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 15:13:06 EDT Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Annoy People To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 9/8/2003 1:33:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rmeyer9@XXXXXX writes: > most of these aren't cool, and the Harley crowd wouldn't be caught dead in > them. The most effective means of visibility is _lane_position_. Everything else mentioned is good only in addition to placing yourself where you are most likely to be seen. If you are not always positioning yourself for visibility the other stuff is far less useful. Loud pipes quell cells. 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 15:59:15 2003 Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 15:58:39 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: marcwashington@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX, shonda3@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Annoy People + cage alarms X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 My R6, with stock pipe, does this if I give it enough gas, while in an enclosed parking garage, 3 feet away from the car, with the ventilator fan blowing the right way, during a full moon, etc, etc. hehe Seriously though, I think any bike can set off a car alarm without trying too hard. One little twist of the throttle and see who comes running. ;-) Scooter In a message dated 9/8/2003 2:10:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time, marcwashington@XXXXXX writes: > > > Yup my Superhawk with Jardines does the same. I love V Twins. ;) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > Wrom: EXCAXZOWCONEUQZAAFXISHJEXXIMQZUIVOTQNQE > To: > Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 2:01 PM > Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Annoy People + cage alarms > > > > My SuperHawk has Two Brothers pipes and although I think its not that > > loud, > > once in awhile when I accelerate hard right next to a fancy cage it seems > > to > > be setting off the alarm for few seconds... I hope I'm not annoying anyone > > but has this happened to anybody else? > > > > > > --------------------- > > Shigeru Honda > > 98 SuperHawk (Street) > > 99 750 SS (Track) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > Wrom: MSFDULHPQQWOYIYZUNNYCGPKYLEJGDGVCJVTL > > To: > > Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 1:37 PM > > Subject: Re: RE: Loud Pipes Annoy People > > > > > > > On Mon, 2003-09-08 at 13:37, Mark Kitchell wrote: > > > > YES. I will begine to consider that loud pipes make > > > > you safer when you are wearing a full face helmet, > > > > leathers, boots and gloves. Then we can talk. > > > > > > > > Hey, where did that Harley rider go? > > > > > > > > > > Mmm, sorry. I wasn't paying attention. I'm right here, > what's up? > > > > > > Carl > > > > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 16:01:14 2003 Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 16:01:00 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: cschelin@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Annoy People X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 In a message dated 9/8/2003 2:05:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cschelin@XXXXXX writes: > > > On Mon, 2003-09-08 at 13:51, Jeff Steele wrote: > I don't sit at the light blipping my throttle though and try to keep it > quiet on the way out in the mornings. I just wish the others would do > that too and that the kids would find somewhere else to race. 2am drag > races aren't much fun if they're outside your window. > > And before you start, they've been drag racing out front > since I've > lived there (12 years now). > > > > > Jeff Steele > > XLH Sportster 883 Hugger > > > > Carl What? You mean you're not out there joining them and kicking their butts? Shame on you. What kind of example are you? :-) Scooter From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 16:14:04 2003 Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 16:12:40 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Not crashing, (a better topic) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > Oh I could tell stories! > And will. > I was watching a class once (my wife was in it) and a student got a little > confused and then "target fixated" on one of the instructors. > He rolled pretty far before coming to a stop. > No one was hurt. > _Nothing_ scares an instructor more then the "deer eyes in the headlight" > look when the student is staring at him/her. But of course the fav command to the newbies is "Look at me!" to get them to turn their heads. And they look -- and look -- and UH-OH! One class voted me the instructor most likely to become road kill , but the secret is knowing when to jump. Too early and the target fixed student will alter course and track you down like a cruise missle. Gotta wait til the last micro-second and do the ol' sidestep boogie! Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 16:17:23 2003 Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Annoy People From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 08 Sep 2003 16:13:13 -0400 On Mon, 2003-09-08 at 16:01, ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: > In a message dated 9/8/2003 2:05:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cschelin@XXXXXX writes: > > > > > > > On Mon, 2003-09-08 at 13:51, Jeff Steele wrote: > > > > > I don't sit at the light blipping my throttle though and try to keep it > > quiet on the way out in the mornings. I just wish the others would do > > that too and that the kids would find somewhere else to race. 2am drag > > races aren't much fun if they're outside your window. > > > > And before you start, they've been drag racing out front > > since I've > > lived there (12 years now). > > > > > > > > Jeff Steele > > > XLH Sportster 883 Hugger > > > > > > > Carl > > What? You mean you're not out there joining them and kicking their butts? Shame on you. What kind of example are you? :-) > Man, I've fantasized about cables across the street, snipers, and cops actually patrolling the streets. If it was a regular occurrence I'd be on the phone but when you're sound asleep and they start, well there's not much you can do. Recently my next door neighbor's car had three of his four wheels stolen from his mustang convertible. Weirdly enough he brought it with him from Mexico and it only needs four lug nugs rather than the standard five so it was hard for him to find replacements. Car windows being broken out are a regular occurrence as well as spray painted graffiti on the walls, streets and sidewalks. With all these complaints, it's actually a pretty nice neighborhood. I think it's the outsiders (racers for instance) that are causing the problems. It's a very diverse group and with three or four bikers including a recent guy on a nice yellow custom. > Scooter Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 16:24:09 2003 Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 16:22:59 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Mark Kitchell CC: rmeyer9@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Annoy People Mark Kitchell wrote: > YES. I will begine to consider that loud pipes make > you safer when you are wearing a full face helmet, > leathers, boots and gloves. Then we can talk. > > Hey, where did that Harley rider go? > Well, I wear some leather - jacket usually, gloves, boots, and I kinda like my pearl white Shoei full-face, tis quiet inside, can hear traffic. Pipes are well baffled and rather quiet until I really get on it, which I avoid doing in town. Especially when I'm pulling out for an MSF class at dark-thirty in the AM. Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 16:29:14 2003 Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 13:29:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Leon Begeman Subject: Re: Bedliner a tank? To: Michael Lynch , "'vfr@XXXXXX'" , "'DCCycles'" I've got a black bedliner bike. The extra fuel tank for my ZX6 is also painted in bedliner, but that one's sort of a gold color. It's not the smooth kind, I've got the pebbly finish. Why not pull all the bodywork and have it all painted to match? Leon. --- Michael Lynch wrote: > Has anyone ever heard of putting a smooth coat of > spray-on bedliner to do > the outside of a tank? Now that the VFR is totaled, > I'm gonna go silver, > and instead of shelling out for a silver tank, > thought maybe a black > bedliner coating on the ol' tank would work well. > Attributes would be: gas > spills won't touch it, no more dings or scratches in > the 'paint', the tank > bag sure won't go anywhere now, possible cool look > with the silver. > > Any thoughts? > > Mike > 96 VFR > 88 Hawk > 76 CB400F > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 16:34:19 2003 From: "Shigeru Honda" To: "dc-cycles" Subject: my very first race Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 16:29:41 -0400 The race at Summit Point on Saturday was my very first race, I didn't crash and was able to finish the race but I was the last guy to do so. Few people crashed or went out of track so I guess I did better than those guys (woo hoo!). The weather was good, the bike ran very good but I really suck at the main track on Summit, I definitely need more track time on it (or better brain...). I've been doing a lot of track days at Jefferson course but the last time I was on the main track was back in June. At the very first practice session in the morning someone spilled oil all over the track and took awhile to clean it up. The rest of practice session and the race itself was shortened due to this. On the practice session I wasn't feeling comfortable at all, since there were no cones on apex... Do'h! this ain't no track day! At the race I was still not wormed up and people passed me left and right, when I finally started to get things right the race was over (Do'h!). I'll need to save my vacation days (work sux!) and get more track time at the main track. Hopefully with the Shenandoah Circuit there will be more track days at the main track in the weekends next year. --------------------- Shigeru Honda 98 SuperHawk (Street) 99 750 SS (Track) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 17:53:42 2003 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Annoy People + cage alarms Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 17:53:34 -0400 My old Yamaha Seca II w/ stock pipes could set off alarms. >From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX >To: marcwashington@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX, shonda3@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Annoy People + cage alarms >Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 15:58:39 -0400 > >My R6, with stock pipe, does this if I give it enough gas, while in an >enclosed parking garage, 3 feet away from the car, with the ventilator fan >blowing the right way, during a full moon, etc, etc. hehe Seriously >though, I think any bike can set off a car alarm without trying too hard. >One little twist of the throttle and see who comes running. ;-) > >Scooter _________________________________________________________________ Fast, faster, fastest: Upgrade to Cable or DSL today! https://broadband.msn.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 18:59:58 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: "'Leon Begeman'" , "'DCCycles'" Subject: RE: Bedliner a tank? Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 19:02:13 -0400 The thing is, there's nothing left of the bodywork. The car broadsided it on the left, and it went over on the right. The little 3"x10" piece right between the headlights is all that's intact. The tank has multiple paint dings and 2 small dents, almost un-noticeable. Since I have to replace all the plastic anyway, I might as well get it in the color I want (not red), but the tank isn't structurally bad enough that it needs to be replaced (but it's still red). How do you like the pebbly finish? Not sure I like it for an application on the tank. Also, I'd go black - goes with everything and doesn't fade. Mike 96 VFR 88 Hawk 76 CB400F > -----Original Message----- > From: Leon Begeman [SMTP:mriderleon@XXXXXX] > Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 4:29 PM > To: Michael Lynch; 'vfr@XXXXXX'; 'DCCycles' > Subject: Re: Bedliner a tank? > > I've got a black bedliner bike. The extra fuel tank > for my ZX6 is also painted in bedliner, but that one's > sort of a gold color. It's not the smooth kind, I've > got the pebbly finish. > > Why not pull all the bodywork and have it all painted > to match? > > Leon. > > --- Michael Lynch wrote: > > Has anyone ever heard of putting a smooth coat of > > spray-on bedliner to do > > the outside of a tank? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 19:30:05 2003 Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 19:25:18 -0400 From: "Steven C. Di Pietro" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, SOC-USA@XXXXXX, Michael Brock Subject: Another Politco kill a Motorcyclist X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out001.verizon.net from [151.196.44.171] at Mon, 8 Sep 2003 18:29:53 -0500 http://www.ama-cycle.org/news/2003/essex.asp From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 19:52:11 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: Re: Another Politco kill a Motorcyclist Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 19:52:02 -0400 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79bba3e4aa02d8983b9f4eb0a0e65f0876350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Son of a state trooper... you knew he was getting charged with something. Serves Hizzoner's punk ass right. Still the article says 2 counts of felony reckless homicide & 2 dui... but ... ONLY faces a possible 7 years... 2 counts there was only one fatality ( not that this isn't more than enough ). Sure seems like this has been a tough year to be a biker... Thoughts & prayers for both bikers families... Dave Yates ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven C. Di Pietro" To: ; ; "Michael Brock" Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 7:25 PM Subject: Another Politco kill a Motorcyclist > http://www.ama-cycle.org/news/2003/essex.asp > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 19:54:44 2003 Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 19:49:57 -0400 From: "Steven C. Di Pietro" To: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" CC: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Annoy People X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out004.verizon.net from [151.196.44.171] at Mon, 8 Sep 2003 18:54:33 -0500 Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS) wrote: >I am all for being respectful to others but I think I'd rather one of thos >big suvs hear me cause they sure don't see my big Yellow bike. > Arthur, I don't think the SUV'ers will hear you, even if you add loud, obnoxious pipes. They're probably too involved with their movie on DVD, playing in surround sound with the bass boosted. Always ride like your invisible to everyone. Steven C. Di Pietro Interim National Director The Suzuki Owners Club -USA 16 W. Jeffrey Street Baltimore Md. 21225-1713 http://www.soc-usa.org 1996 Suzuki Katana 600 2001 Suzuki Marauder 800 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 19:58:59 2003 Reply-To: "S. Russell" From: "S. Russell" To: Subject: Bethesda Parking Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 19:58:16 -0400 Was curious, I work on St Elmo Ave in Bethesda and if anyone knows about motorcycle parking in that area. The boss thinks there are spots around but cannot locate them. Any help is appreciated. Scott 84 Honda CB700SC Nighthawk From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 20:07:03 2003 Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 17:06:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Larry Larson Subject: Re: Wheelies To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX ...but did he get the reckless driving ticket he so richly deserved? --Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 20:25:49 2003 Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 20:25:28 -0400 Subject: Re: my very first race Cc: "dc-cycles" From: Randy Moran Congrats, Shigeru! Good luck with your future racing efforts. RPM On Monday, September 8, 2003, at 04:29 PM, Shigeru Honda wrote: > The race at Summit Point on Saturday was my very first race, I didn't > crash > and was able to finish the race > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 21:00:28 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: Re: Bethesda Parking Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 21:00:21 -0400 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79db6ebbeb646ebe620c4dd71045515cdc350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c > Was curious, I work on St Elmo Ave in Bethesda and if anyone knows about > motorcycle parking in that area. The boss thinks there are spots around but > cannot locate them. [Dave] Notwithstanding street names, there are a couple of county owned garages; the one near Austin Grill has moto parking spaces... It's a couple blocks from Metro... HTH Dave From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 21:05:44 2003 Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 21:00:07 -0400 To: "William J. Huson" , PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Not crashing, (a better topic) Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 04:12 PM 9/8/03 -0400, William J. Huson wrote: >One class voted me the >instructor most likely to become road kill , but the secret is knowing when to >jump. Too early and the target fixed student will alter course and track you down >like a cruise missle. Gotta wait til the last micro-second and do the ol' sidestep boogie! Do you have to shout, "Ole!" as you step, or is that optional? -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 21:05:44 2003 Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 21:03:25 -0400 To: Leon Begeman , Michael Lynch , "'vfr@XXXXXX'" , "'DCCycles'" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Bedliner a tank? At 01:29 PM 9/8/03 -0700, Leon Begeman wrote: >I've got a black bedliner bike. The extra fuel tank >for my ZX6 is also painted in bedliner, but that one's >sort of a gold color. It's not the smooth kind, I've >got the pebbly finish. > >Why not pull all the bodywork and have it all painted >to match? And the frame? And the rims? Handle bars? Backs of the mirrors? Heck, just do the whole thing in the "plastic oatmeal" theme and it might last forever, even if you drop it a few times! :^) -- Mike "that stuff is pretty tough" Bartman -- **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 8 22:28:40 2003 Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 19:28:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Bethesda Parking To: "S. Russell" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX free m/c parking just inside the woodmont avenue public garage. go to end of st. elmo and make a right on woodmont. garage on right. --- "S. Russell" wrote: > Was curious, I work on St Elmo Ave in Bethesda and if > anyone knows about > motorcycle parking in that area. The boss thinks there > are spots around but > cannot locate them. > > Any help is appreciated. > > Scott > 84 Honda CB700SC Nighthawk > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 9 07:09:43 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 07:09:33 EDT Subject: Re: Not crashing, (a better topic) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 9/8/2003 9:05:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, omni@XXXXXX writes: > Do you have to shout, "Ole!" as you step, or is that optional? I tend to shout "O" something or the other. But I do not think it is "LE" John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 9 07:13:46 2003 Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 04:13:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Bethesda Parking To: "S. Russell" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX oops. st. elmo --> right on norfolk --> right on woodmont --- Tom Gimer wrote: > free m/c parking just inside the woodmont avenue public > garage. go to end of st. elmo and make a right on > woodmont. garage on right. > > > --- "S. Russell" wrote: > > Was curious, I work on St Elmo Ave in Bethesda and if > > anyone knows about > > motorcycle parking in that area. The boss thinks there > > are spots around but > > cannot locate them. > > > > Any help is appreciated. > > > > Scott > > 84 Honda CB700SC Nighthawk __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 9 08:17:21 2003 Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 08:15:59 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Not crashing, (a better topic) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > In a message dated 9/8/2003 9:05:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > omni@XXXXXX writes: > > > Do you have to shout, "Ole!" as you step, or is that optional? > > I tend to shout "O" something or the other. > But I do not think it is "LE" > > John. > PenguinBiker@XXXXXX I remain quiet whilst jumping. Noise is a distraction, and the student needs to focus on the task -- which is leaving tire tracks on my skinny butt. If they lose focus and begin to wander off target path -- hey, where's the fun and excitement in that! Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 9 08:26:22 2003 Subject: Re: Wheelies From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 09 Sep 2003 08:22:12 -0400 On Mon, 2003-09-08 at 20:06, Larry Larson wrote: > ....but did he get the reckless driving ticket he so richly > deserved? > Nah, the cop had already pulled someone over and was giving them a ticket. Unless you mean the guy on 95N, then I didn't see a cop :-) > --Larry > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 9 08:29:20 2003 Subject: Re: Bedliner a tank? From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 09 Sep 2003 08:25:10 -0400 On Mon, 2003-09-08 at 21:03, Mike Bartman wrote: > At 01:29 PM 9/8/03 -0700, Leon Begeman wrote: > >I've got a black bedliner bike. The extra fuel tank > >for my ZX6 is also painted in bedliner, but that one's > >sort of a gold color. It's not the smooth kind, I've > >got the pebbly finish. > > > >Why not pull all the bodywork and have it all painted > >to match? > > And the frame? And the rims? Handle bars? Backs of the mirrors? Heck, > just do the whole thing in the "plastic oatmeal" theme and it might last > forever, even if you drop it a few times! :^) > Hmm, I wonder what kind of profile it'd show up on for radar. Up in Canada they had the electronic signs that displayed how fast you were going. I found that I wasn't visible to them. They'd show the speed of the guy way in front then blank out for a bit then pop up again for the guy behind me (apparently). > -- Mike "that stuff is pretty tough" Bartman -- > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 9 08:37:24 2003 Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 08:36:13 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Carl Schelin CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Bedliner a tank? Carl Schelin wrote: > Hmm, I wonder what kind of profile it'd show up on for radar. Up in > Canada they had the electronic signs that displayed how fast you were > going. I found that I wasn't visible to them. They'd show the speed of > the guy way in front then blank out for a bit then pop up again for the > guy behind me (apparently). Hmm... The trailer portable radar signs used in No VA pick up my scoot. They had one on Beauregard Ave & Filmore a couple weeks ago. Kinda cool watching my speed click down as I slowed for the left turn lane. Not so cool watching the bugger race up to 50+ MPH (in 35) while other vehicles blew thru, a few running a fresh red light. Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 9 08:43:15 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 08:42:59 EDT Subject: Re: Not crashing, (a better topic) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 9/9/2003 8:17:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time, bhuson@XXXXXX writes: > I remain quiet whilst jumping. Noise is a distraction, Are you kidding? Everyone knows noise is a propulsion system, more noise, more power and I need all the power I can get to move my ass out of the way. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 9 08:57:12 2003 Subject: Re: Bedliner a tank? From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 09 Sep 2003 08:53:02 -0400 On Tue, 2003-09-09 at 08:36, William J. Huson wrote: > Carl Schelin wrote: > > > Hmm, I wonder what kind of profile it'd show up on for radar. Up in > > Canada they had the electronic signs that displayed how fast you were > > going. I found that I wasn't visible to them. They'd show the speed of > > the guy way in front then blank out for a bit then pop up again for the > > guy behind me (apparently). > > Hmm... The trailer portable radar signs used in No VA pick up my scoot. They > had one on Beauregard Ave & Filmore a couple weeks ago. Kinda cool watching my > speed click down as I slowed for the left turn lane. Not so cool watching the > bugger race up to 50+ MPH (in 35) while other vehicles blew thru, a few running > a fresh red light. > The one in Yellowstone picked me up just fine even if it was wrong. It said I was doing 5mph slower than the speedo said. At 49 it was saying 44. Maybe it was because the hawg doesn't have kilometers on the speedo. :-) > Bill > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 9 09:16:46 2003 Subject: RE: Another Politco kills a Motorcyclist Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 09:16:34 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: I got my motorcycle endorsement in Illinois, lo long years ago, and at that time it was a non helmet required state. No mention in the news article about whether or not the motorcyclist (or passenger for that matter) were wearing helmets and/or protective gear. Or relative speeds involved, or... Doesn't change the final outcome, but sometimes it's nice to hear more detail. http://www.nbc5.com/unit5investigates/2457254/detail.html According to a NBC affiliate, it looks like he will be charged with a felony rap... http://www.thetimesonline.com/articles/2003/09/05/roundups/roundups/20618e87fc54aef086256d980060517c.txt ...reckless homicide. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 9 10:05:47 2003 Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 09:05:44 -0500 To: mike@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Sean Jordan Subject: New bikes for 2004 http://www.amasuperbike.com/image/2004yamaha/fz6/ http://www.amasuperbike.com/2003-Sep/030909fz1.htm http://forums.13x.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33648 Looks like '04 could be a good year.... -Sean Jordan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 9 10:37:13 2003 Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 07:36:39 -0700 (PDT) From: matthew patton Subject: RE: Moto Death in DC Area To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > getting rammed between you two?' In the MD MSF class, we practiced > dodging around a school bus shaped area of cones with that in mind... I always tell my students to visualize a semi parked in that middle of the swerve and that not hitting cones is not good enough. They have to make sure the entire bike to include their legs can't run thru the imaginary vertical plane denoted as the cones. The studnets love it because it makes it that much more difficult. At first many of them suffer "imaginary amputations." ===== * Love, not time, heals all wounds. * No one is perfect until you fall in love with them. And then when they aren't perfect anymore, love makes them perfect again. * Everyone wants to live on top of the mountain, but all the happiness and growth occurs while you're climbing it * You can not forgive unless you first love. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 9 10:41:23 2003 Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 07:41:16 -0700 (PDT) From: matthew patton Subject: RE: Moto Death in DC Area To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Jim McGonigle wrote: > Has anyone actually avoided being rear ended? If so, what happened? my only "real" accident was a glancing blow from the rear which I wrote about oh maybe year and a half ago where a DS plowed into a towtruck which rolled into me as I was making a left turn. It's all about lane positioning. I cringe every time I see a rider not only get 2 inches off the bumper of the car in front but also sit right smack in the middle of their lane. Like they have anywhere to go. I don't "relax" till I have several cars stopped behind me at a light. ===== * Love, not time, heals all wounds. * No one is perfect until you fall in love with them. And then when they aren't perfect anymore, love makes them perfect again. * Everyone wants to live on top of the mountain, but all the happiness and growth occurs while you're climbing it * You can not forgive unless you first love. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 9 11:32:24 2003 Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 11:31:13 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: matthew patton CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Moto Death in DC Area matthew patton wrote: > --- Jim McGonigle wrote: > > Has anyone actually avoided being rear ended? If so, what happened? > > my only "real" accident was a glancing blow from the rear which I wrote > about oh maybe year and a half ago where a DS plowed into a towtruck > which rolled into me as I was making a left turn. It's all about lane > positioning. I cringe every time I see a rider not only get 2 inches > off the bumper of the car in front but also sit right smack in the > middle of their lane. Like they have anywhere to go. I don't "relax" > till I have several cars stopped behind me at a light. Yeppers. Safety hint to my MSF students - when stopping at a light/stop sign, park to the R/L side of the vehicle in front of you and stay far enough back to give you room to exit left or right should a BDC fail to recognize that traffic has stopped. Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 9 11:57:45 2003 Reply-To: "Jon Strang" From: "Jon Strang" To: "Carl Schelin" Cc: Subject: Re: Bedliner a tank? Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 11:56:53 -0400 > The one in Yellowstone picked me up just fine even if it was wrong. It > said I was doing 5mph slower than the speedo said. At 49 it was saying > 44. If you were being serious: The error in the radar reading varies with the angle. You gotta get pretty close to get a 10% error, though. Assume radar is 25 feet from your path (you, not the right line of the lane). To get the radar speed to read .9 of your speed, the angle must be arc sine .9 = ~65 degrees (from your line of view from radar to perpendicular to road)...so you're only about 60 feet from the radar (54 feet up the road, 25 feet out from the radar, total length is 60 feet from you to radar). Unless you were that close, errors were in calibration of your speedo and their radar. --jon From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 9 12:15:46 2003 Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 12:15:41 -0400 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Bedliner a tank? At 08:53 AM 9/9/03 -0400, Carl Schelin wrote: >The one in Yellowstone picked me up just fine even if it was wrong. It >said I was doing 5mph slower than the speedo said. At 49 it was saying >44. > >Maybe it was because the hawg doesn't have kilometers on the speedo. :-) Or maybe your speedo's off? Have you checked it with a GPS? My Jeep was reading 5mph slow until I got slightly larger tires on it...now it's within .4 mph of accurate...according to the GPS, and who am I to argue with the United States Air Force? -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 9 12:45:29 2003 Subject: Re: Bedliner a tank? From: Carl Schelin To: Jon Strang Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 09 Sep 2003 12:41:19 -0400 On Tue, 2003-09-09 at 11:56, Jon Strang wrote: > > The one in Yellowstone picked me up just fine even if it was wrong. It > > said I was doing 5mph slower than the speedo said. At 49 it was saying > > 44. > > If you were being serious: Yep, I was serious. > > The error in the radar reading varies with the angle. You gotta get pretty > close to get a 10% error, though. Assume radar is 25 feet from your path > (you, not the right line of the lane). To get the radar speed to read .9 of > your speed, the angle must be arc sine .9 = ~65 degrees (from your line of > view from radar to perpendicular to road)...so you're only about 60 feet > from the radar (54 feet up the road, 25 feet out from the radar, total > length is 60 feet from you to radar). > > Unless you were that close, errors were in calibration of your speedo and > their radar. > It's probably with the speedo. I think I was more like 100' back and approaching. > --jon > Thanks, Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 9 12:49:05 2003 Subject: Re: Bedliner a tank? From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 09 Sep 2003 12:44:56 -0400 On Tue, 2003-09-09 at 12:15, Mike Bartman wrote: > At 08:53 AM 9/9/03 -0400, Carl Schelin wrote: > > >The one in Yellowstone picked me up just fine even if it was wrong. It > >said I was doing 5mph slower than the speedo said. At 49 it was saying > >44. > > > >Maybe it was because the hawg doesn't have kilometers on the speedo. :-) > > Or maybe your speedo's off? Have you checked it with a GPS? > Actually I meant for the Canadian one :-) There's a chance that my speedo's off though. I'm interested in getting a GPS but haven't started searching yet. Still in info gather mode. > My Jeep was reading 5mph slow until I got slightly larger tires on it...now > it's within .4 mph of accurate...according to the GPS, and who am I to > argue with the United States Air Force? > I did change tires out from the Dunlops to Avons. While the size changed, I thought it'd have to be a bigger difference in size to make that sort of change. I don't have any formulas for calculating RPM's WRT tires though. > -- Mike B. > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 9 13:14:43 2003 Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 10:14:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Weaver Subject: RADAR and Speedos (was Re: Bedliner a tank?) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX What does any of this have to do with Bedliner? Can you folks PLEASE change the subject line (like I've just done) when you change the subject of the thread?!? This ain't a chat session you know. Chris Weaver --- Carl Schelin wrote:On Tue, 2003-I don't have any formulas for calculating RPM's WRT tires though. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 9 13:20:42 2003 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'DCCycles'" Cc: "'robkeiser@XXXXXX'" Subject: Garage Help... Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 13:24:15 -0400 Rob Keiser posed: "Apparently, as the door was lowering, one of the springs gave up the fight and finally let got, taking a few casualties with it. (fluorescent bulbs, furnace filter, etc.) Phew! But now what? I can't open the door. Anybody have any recommendations for places that fix/replace garage door springs? This isn't something I intend to even try, so let's hear it." You may have already done this but: Home Despot has garage door springs. Take your old one and find it's match (~$10 IIRC) The other one is likely to go within the next couple of years so you might consider replacing the good one now - unless you like chaos. Motorcycle content: An 8 foot 2 X 4 is a cheap helper to hold the door open whilst you replace the broken spring. And you can make a bead breaker out of it afterwards. Carl in Bethesda From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 9 13:37:35 2003 Subject: Apology (was Re: RADAR and Speedos (was Re: Bedliner a tank?) From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 09 Sep 2003 13:33:24 -0400 Sorry big guy. With trying not to include 4 people on the reply, I neglected to fix the subject line. If I promise to try harder next time, will that make it better? Carl On Tue, 2003-09-09 at 13:14, Chris Weaver wrote: > What does any of this have to do with Bedliner? Can > you folks PLEASE change the subject line (like I've > just done) when you change the subject of the > thread?!? This ain't a chat session you know. > > Chris Weaver > > --- > Carl Schelin wrote:On Tue, > 2003-I don't have any formulas for calculating RPM's > WRT tires though. > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 9 13:49:58 2003 Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 10:49:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Weaver Subject: Re: Apology (was Re: RADAR and Speedos (was Re: Bedliner a tank?) To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX That's all I ask, Carl. Thank you. :^) --- Carl Schelin wrote: > If I promise to try harder next time, will that make > it better? > > Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 9 14:09:31 2003 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'DCCycles'" Subject: Loud Pipes and survival Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 14:13:00 -0400 Silver, Alleged "I am all for being respectful to others but I think I'd rather one of thos big suvs hear me cause they sure don't see my big Yellow bike." Uh, 1. Loud pipes are mostly useful in front of that big SUV - or - at their side in their blind spot -- WHERE YOU OUGHT NOT BE ANYWAY. 2. Meyer's mentioned: "There are far more effective ways to make them notice you than loud pipes. Many have been discussed on this list: headlight modulators, extra / blinking rear lights, neon vests, bright colored helmets.... " Two snaps and a triple aa-men Add driving lights, lane placement, lane weave when approaching a BDC (tracing your headlight over their retina helps bunches), flashing your brake light when stopping (Disconnect front switch; use rear pedal to flash brake light) . . .ummm and other stuff.. 3. "Of course, most of these aren't cool, and the Harley crowd wouldn't be caught dead in them. "Tain't just the Hardley folks. Lotsa squidly folks on rice, pasta, aa-nd yess - even brat burners. Long John finally got around to posting: "The most effective means of visibility is -lane-position.. Everything else mentioned is good only in addition to placing yourself where you are most likely to be seen. If you are not always positioning yourself for visibility the other stuff is far less useful." Two snaps and a triple "You da man." "Experienced Rider Course/Martinsburg Bob McKontributed If any of need/want an ERC call 866 355 9399" More info: September 20 Martinsburg, W(BG)V. 2 pm until ~ 10. $65 for Merry-landers they take Visa/MC Jeff Summed up, "I don't like to annoy people and if I didn't really need those last few horses the pipes provide, I'd have kept my bike stock." Got rice? Carl in Bethesda From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 9 15:18:07 2003 From: "Rob Keiser" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Garage Help... Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 15:06:41 -0400 Thanks, Carl. (and everyone else who responded) I've done some online research and decided I would at least attempt the repair myself. Went to Home Depot last night and picked up two matching extension springs (with the safety wires) and two guide wires. Will see if I can get it open after work and go from there. 2x4, ladder, clamps, vice grips, all are great suggestions for keeping the door open. Wish me luck! Rob '98 VFR800 (will be freed soon!) From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" CC: "'robkeiser@XXXXXX'" Subject: Garage Help... Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 13:21:08 -0400 Rob Keiser complained, "Apparently, as the door was lowering, one of the springs gave up the fight and finally let got, taking a few casualties with it. (fluorescent bulbs, furnace filter, etc.) Phew! But now what? I can't open the door. Anybody have any recommendations for places that fix/replace garage door springs? This isn't something I intend to even try, so let's hear it." You may have already done this but: Home Despot has garage door springs. Take your old one and find it's match (~$10 IIRC) The other one is likely to go within the next couple of years so you might consider replacing the good one now - unless you like chaos. Motorcycle content: An 8 foot 2 X 4 is a cheap helper to hold the door open whilst you replace the broken spring. And you can make a Mark III bead breaker out of it afterwards. Carl in Bethesda _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive larger attachments with Hotmail Extra Storage. http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 9 16:59:58 2003 Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 13:59:41 -0400 (EDT) From: cvkgpena@XXXXXX To: Chris Weaver , Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Apology (was Re: RADAR and Speedos (was Re: Bedliner a tank?) The best part of fighting is the kissing and making up afterwards. Get a room you guys! %^) -------Original Message------- From: Chris Weaver Sent: 09/09/03 01:49 PM To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Apology (was Re: RADAR and Speedos (was Re: Bedliner a tank?) > > That's all I ask, Carl. Thank you. :^) --- Carl Schelin wrote: > If I promise to try harder next time, will that make > it better? > > Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 9 17:48:01 2003 Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 17:47:46 -0400 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Bedliner a tank? At 12:44 PM 9/9/03 -0400, Carl Schelin wrote: >On Tue, 2003-09-09 at 12:15, Mike Bartman wrote: >> My Jeep was reading 5mph slow until I got slightly larger tires on it...now >> it's within .4 mph of accurate...according to the GPS, and who am I to >> argue with the United States Air Force? > >I did change tires out from the Dunlops to Avons. While the size >changed, I thought it'd have to be a bigger difference in size to make >that sort of change. The sidewall height is the key thing. I went to wider tires on my Jeep, and that changed the sidewall height, therefore the radius, therefore the circumference...ergo, different distance traveled per revolution and a change in speedo reading. >I don't have any formulas for calculating RPM's WRT tires though. Distance for 1 revolution = pi * diameter? :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 9 17:52:06 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: Re: Re: Apology (was Re: RADAR and Speedos (was Re: Bedliner a tank?) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 17:51:56 -0400 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79d5534cf02be46d6ca41ac7b6ae7a81b0350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c A sensitive Chuck delurked & posted: > The best part of fighting is the kissing and making up afterwards. Get a room you guys! %^) [Dave] hmm... that's new. I always thought the best part was (allegedly) standing over the vanquished bodies of our enemies... Who wants to kiss a dismembered corpse anyway :-? ... > > That's all I ask, Carl. Thank you. :^) > > --- Carl Schelin wrote: > > > If I promise to try harder next time, will that make > > it better? > > > > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 9 17:56:07 2003 Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 17:56:08 -0400 To: "Custer, Carl" , "'DCCycles'" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Definitions (was: Re: Loud Pipes and survival) At 02:13 PM 9/9/03 -0400, Custer, Carl wrote: >lane weave when approaching a BDC (tracing your headlight over their retina Ok, I've figured out "squid" I think, but what's a "BDC"? "Bubba Driving Cage" maybe? Yeah, I'm a newbie again, it happens. Oh, and for the folks who think Harley riders are squids, I just got home with a full face helmet, over-the-ankle boots (look sorta like combat boots actually...should be great for butt-kicking as necessary!), padded leather jacket and gauntlet-style gloves (fall/spring level of insulation...already had some good summer ones). I think the jeans can handle the rest for now...maybe leather jeans later though. We'll see once the credit card stops smoking... -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 9 17:56:38 2003 Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 17:56:16 -0400 From: Skip CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Apology (was Re: RADAR and Speedos (was Re: Bedliner a tank?) Dave Yates wrote: > > A sensitive Chuck delurked & posted: > > > The best part of fighting is the kissing and making up afterwards. Get a > room you guys! %^) > > [Dave] hmm... that's new. I always thought the best part was (allegedly) > standing over the vanquished > bodies of our enemies... Who wants to kiss a dismembered corpse anyway :-? > ... you've got it all wrong... What is best in life? To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women! From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 9 17:58:19 2003 Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 17:58:20 -0400 To: "Custer, Carl" , "'DCCycles'" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Definitions (was: Re: Loud Pipes and survival) At 05:56 PM 9/9/03 -0400, Mike Bartman wrote: >At 02:13 PM 9/9/03 -0400, Custer, Carl wrote: > >>lane weave when approaching a BDC (tracing your headlight over their retina > >Ok, I've figured out "squid" I think, but what's a "BDC"? "Bubba Driving >Cage" maybe? Wait! I think I might have it: "Brain Dead Cager", right? -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 9 19:43:59 2003 From: "Mobacc" To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Observations on Inspection (DC) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 19:42:11 -0400 Did the duty this am. Minor, no major, experiences -- o Have been advised that mid-month, mid-day easier. No curb line today, waited appx 15m before inspector attention. Whole process 30m. The day-expiration dated stickers (used to be month) means that one will probably experience a continual year-to-year reverse slip. Not being a summer/winter-expiry fan, a 6-mo adjustment to fall/spring may be in the cards after a few years. o Before entry into the Half St. SW lot (only one now open, others pending), the line jockey was checking that registrations handy. This was the only owner pprwk asked for. Viewed again later by inspector. o Unlike previously, no "express motorcycle" line. But I didn't ask since lines small. o Off/on helmet abt 4 times (sunny 75). Didn't want to get involved in some kind of silly helmet-law issue while bike in motion. o New-to-me inspection item: "Grab front brake, push hard" (brakes, forks, ???). Don't know if because of an older '99 bike or a new routine. Plus old items: Electrics, brakes, rev-noise. o Several questions a couple of times from inspectors while holding info wand (answers?) in hand ("What year?", "No. of cc's?"). Verifying the owner-bike relationship? ??? o Put bike on c'stand for easy access to inspection sticker location on left upper front fork: the front wheel was turned back/forth during sticker replacement. New sticker is orange vice lime. o On leaving had urge to do wheelie/right hand wave down Half St. after a wisecracking inspector type walked by with a "Hey, Lone Rider" comment. Not done -- reason #1 first-time effort would have been disaster. o Overall a pretty zippy experience (as in the past except when a victim of long lines). Inspection crew generally courteous. Bill S. / DC '99 VN750 > Inspection sticker cuts into payload Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 9 21:14:27 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: Re: Apology (was Re: RADAR and Speedos (was Re: Bedliner a tank?) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 21:14:13 -0400 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79aba9093558d8eaddc6eeea90742e13db350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Skip corrected: > you've got it all wrong... > > What is best in life? > > To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation > of the women! [Dave] You're right of course... I would love to crush the enemies I see driving before me that just cut me off with little room to spare, including the women lamenting their makeup. Dave Run Al Run ! www.al2004.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 9 22:23:34 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 22:23:20 EDT Subject: Re: Moto Death in DC Area To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 9/9/2003 10:37:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time, pattonme@XXXXXX writes: > The studnets love it Studnets? I guess a lady biker always could attract a stud. "She was a real studnet" I like it! John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 9 22:28:14 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 22:28:02 EDT Subject: Re: Bedliner a tank? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 9/9/2003 12:49:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cschelin@XXXXXX writes: > I don't have any formulas for calculating RPM's WRT tires though. Find a nice stretch of freeway (where it is legal of course) at a mile marker start a stopwatch, go about 5 mi. (the more miles you go the more accurate your reading will be) keeping the bike exactly at 60mph. It should take exactly one minute to go each mile. Easy. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 9 22:36:38 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 22:36:28 EDT Subject: Re: Something like speedo error (Izzat better?) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 9/9/2003 5:54:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, omni@XXXXXX writes: > Distance for 1 revolution = pi * diameter? :^) But you would have to use the diameter of the compressed tire, using the radius from the axel center to the _bottom_ of the tire with all of the weight on it. And of course centrifugal force will change that anyhow. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 9 22:41:03 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 22:40:45 EDT Subject: Re: Apology (was Re: RADAR and Speedos (was Re: Bedliner a tank?) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 9/9/2003 9:14:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Dave@XXXXXX writes: > including > the women lamenting their makeup. I am sure he meant laminating their makeup. An easy typo. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 9 23:29:09 2003 From: "Mobacc" To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: One man's meat . . .. Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 23:27:30 -0400 The following last week brought a long, low chuckle and philosophical ponderings about us humans. And then along came recent postings on this list about noise of various kinds. To not post this would seriously haunt, I figured. >From the NYT car pages last Friday, a sizeable piece: "Loud, Not Fast, Wins These Races" http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/05/automobiles/05NOIS.html (may require signin) ...snip A man wearing a baggy bowling shirt bearing the logo of MTX, a car audio company, beamed as he popped open the lift gate of a blue 1988 Plymouth Voyager minivan, inviting a look within. Crammed where the seats and the cargo space should have been were 32 eight-volt batteries and 16 amplifiers, components of a sound system with 44,000 watts of power - the strength of a big-city radio station. The cars around it on the parking lot were similarly equipped, outfitted for combat in a battle of noise. ...snip Welcome to dB Drag Racing, the latest craze to sweep the car-audio set and, to the uninitiated, a glimpse of technology gone mad. It is called racing, but the cars stand still. (Many cannot be driven and have to be transported by trailer.) The loudest sound wins, but no one can hear it. It has corporate sponsors and championship circuits, top competitors pour as much as half a million dollars into their cars, and it can be found from Finland to Bangladesh. ...snip The international record in dB drag racing, which has 35,000 competitors in 80 countries, is 171.5 decibels. If that sound came out of an open vehicle, Mr. Horn said, it would blast competitors off their feet. ...snip ***end Something for the straightpipers to shoot for, I'd say! Bill S. / DC '99 VN750 > Hmmm. A Mall event next? Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 10 07:50:19 2003 Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 07:50:15 -0400 From: Skip Smith To: "William J. Huson" CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Bedliner a tank? "William J. Huson" wrote: > Hmm... The trailer portable radar signs used in No VA pick up my scoot. They > had one on Beauregard Ave & Filmore a couple weeks ago. Kinda cool watching my > speed click down as I slowed for the left turn lane. Not so cool watching the > bugger race up to 50+ MPH (in 35) while other vehicles blew thru, a few running > a fresh red light. years ago, like 15 of them, I worked at Domino's. We had a sort of unwritten, unspoken arrangement. they didn't pull over the delivery drivers, and we gave them free pizza. so I'm standing in the parking lot, talking to one of the officers, asking about radar and bikes. my bike is sitting about 30 feet away, idling. he says that it's hard to get a good reading off of a bike, and he points his radar gun at my bike. it registers as goign 38 mph. I suspect that radar technology has improved since then. --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 10 08:20:47 2003 Subject: Re: Something like speedo error (Izzat better?) From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 10 Sep 2003 08:16:36 -0400 On Tue, 2003-09-09 at 22:36, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > In a message dated 9/9/2003 5:54:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > omni@XXXXXX writes: > > > Distance for 1 revolution = pi * diameter? :^) > > But you would have to use the diameter of the compressed tire, using the > radius from the axel center to the _bottom_ of the tire with all of the weight on > it. And of course centrifugal force will change that anyhow. > And take into account the summer air. It is getting colder after all. > > John. > PenguinBiker@XXXXXX > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 10 09:25:23 2003 Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 09:24:11 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Apology (was Re: RADAR and Speedos (was Re: Bedliner a tank?) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > In a message dated 9/9/2003 9:14:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > Dave@XXXXXX writes: > > > including > > the women lamenting their makeup. > > I am sure he meant laminating their makeup. > An easy typo. > > John. > PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Yes, laminating, or maybe contemplating their makeup as they embark on the search for a Studnet :-) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 10 10:41:06 2003 Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:38:00 -0400 To: "Dave Yates" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Apology (was Re: RADAR and Speedos (was Re: Bedliner a tank?) At 09:14 PM 9/9/03 -0400, Dave Yates wrote: >Skip corrected: >> What is best in life? >> >> To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the >lamentation >> of the women! > >[Dave] You're right of course... I would love to crush the enemies I see >driving before me that just cut me off with little room to spare, including >the women lamenting their makeup. If you replace the front wheel of your bike with a huge steam-roller wheel, is it still a motorcycle, even though it no longer has a use for a side/center stand? -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 10 10:50:05 2003 Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:43:13 -0400 To: "Mobacc" , "DC-Cycles" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: One man's meat . . .. At 11:27 PM 9/9/03 -0400, Mobacc wrote: >cargo space should have been were 32 eight-volt batteries and 16 amplifiers, >components of a sound system with 44,000 watts of power - the strength of a >big-city radio station. The cars around it on the parking lot were similarly >equipped, outfitted for combat in a battle of noise. Why does this remind me of Douglas Adams' "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" series? There was a rock band in there called "Disaster Area" that was somewhere north of an atomic bomb on the sound level scale. The safest place to listen to them was from another planet... -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 10 10:56:20 2003 Subject: GSXR From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 10 Sep 2003 10:52:07 -0400 Well Tim brought it by last night. Suzuki 750 GSXR. There are a couple of screws missing from the top of the left cowling, the battery is stone cold dead (I tried to charge it last night and got a note this morning from the bike addressed to Dr. Frankenstein :-) It's been sitting covered outside so there are a couple of small rust spots. The headlights work most of the time (short in the wiring apparently). The foot brake is a little bent but it looks useable. It should get the fluids and plugs changed out. He originally repainted the bike but used incompatible paint which caused spidering. A friend owed him a favor and got it repainted this green/blue color. He also recovered the passenger seat using a windbreaker but a cat got to it so it's got a few claw holes in the back. I was thinking that Rita could try it out but this thing's huge. I'm 6'2" and just sitting on it makes me feel stretched out. I'll get it working, registered, inspected and ride it around a few days before trading it in. This could be interesting :-) Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 10 10:59:20 2003 Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 09:59:20 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Sean Jordan Subject: Re: GSXR What year is the new Gixxer? -Sean Jordan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 10 11:09:52 2003 Subject: Re: GSXR From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 10 Sep 2003 11:05:40 -0400 On Wed, 2003-09-10 at 10:59, Sean Jordan wrote: > What year is the new Gixxer? > 95. http://www.schelin.org/personal/forsale He tried selling it (for too much, IMO). I've got it up for sale but want to play with it first. We'll probably end up trading it in for Rita's bike but I'm not sold on it yet ;-) > -Sean Jordan > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 10 11:20:51 2003 Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 11:20:53 -0400 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: GSXR At 10:52 AM 9/10/03 -0400, Carl Schelin wrote: >The foot brake is a little bent but it looks useable. Is a bent control worth replacing, or is the chance of micro-cracks, or structural strength reduction, too small to worry about? Just wondering if it's worth risking failure in a panic stop, or if there's a way to be sure it's good, even though bent a bit? -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 10 11:26:35 2003 Reply-To: From: "Jim McGonigle" To: "'Mike Bartman'" , "'Carl Schelin'" , Subject: RE: GSXR Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 11:26:21 -0400 Who uses the rear brake in a panic stop? ;) Just kidding, couldn't resist... > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Bartman [mailto:omni@XXXXXX] > Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 11:21 AM > To: Carl Schelin; dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: GSXR > > > At 10:52 AM 9/10/03 -0400, Carl Schelin wrote: > > >The foot brake is a little bent but it looks useable. > > Is a bent control worth replacing, or is the chance of > micro-cracks, or > structural strength reduction, too small to worry about? > Just wondering if > it's worth risking failure in a panic stop, or if there's a > way to be sure > it's good, even though bent a bit? > > -- Mike B. > > ************************************************************** > ************** > * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered > Obfuscation Obliterated * > * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled > Opinions Offered * > * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles > Stimulated * > *------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------* > * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too > high! * > ************************************************************** > ************** > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 10 11:40:29 2003 Subject: Re: GSXR From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 10 Sep 2003 11:36:19 -0400 On Wed, 2003-09-10 at 11:20, Mike Bartman wrote: > At 10:52 AM 9/10/03 -0400, Carl Schelin wrote: > > >The foot brake is a little bent but it looks useable. > > Is a bent control worth replacing, or is the chance of micro-cracks, or > structural strength reduction, too small to worry about? Just wondering if > it's worth risking failure in a panic stop, or if there's a way to be sure > it's good, even though bent a bit? > It's probably a cheap part anyway. If I decide to keep it around a while I'll likely do additional work. Most of my braking is with the front brake anyway but I do understand. > -- Mike B. > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 10 13:09:42 2003 Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 13:09:13 -0400 From: Skip To: Mike Bartman CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Apology (was Re: RADAR and Speedos (was Re: Bedliner atank?) Mike Bartman wrote: > > At 09:14 PM 9/9/03 -0400, Dave Yates wrote: > >Skip corrected: > > >> What is best in life? > >> > >> To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the > >lamentation > >> of the women! > > > >[Dave] You're right of course... I would love to crush the enemies I see > >driving before me that just cut me off with little room to spare, including > >the women lamenting their makeup. > > If you replace the front wheel of your bike with a huge steam-roller wheel, > is it still a motorcycle, even though it no longer has a use for a > side/center stand? Only if you can pop wheelies. --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 10 13:29:56 2003 Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 13:29:44 -0400 To: Skip From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Apology (was Re: RADAR and Speedos (was Re: Bedliner atank?) Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 01:09 PM 9/10/03 -0400, Skip wrote: >Mike Bartman wrote: >> At 09:14 PM 9/9/03 -0400, Dave Yates wrote: >> >[Dave] You're right of course... I would love to crush the enemies I see >> >driving before me that just cut me off with little room to spare, including >> >the women lamenting their makeup. >> >> If you replace the front wheel of your bike with a huge steam-roller wheel, >> is it still a motorcycle, even though it no longer has a use for a >> side/center stand? > >Only if you can pop wheelies. Now *there's* an image worth rendering... :^) -- Mike "have to name the bike "Mjolnir" or something though" Bartman -- **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 10 13:29:57 2003 Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 13:25:00 -0400 To: , "'Carl Schelin'" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: GSXR At 11:26 AM 9/10/03 -0400, Jim McGonigle wrote: > >Who uses the rear brake in a panic stop? ;) Just kidding, couldn't >resist... Well, I did...repeatedly! :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 10 13:29:57 2003 Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 13:27:55 -0400 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: GSXR At 11:36 AM 9/10/03 -0400, Carl Schelin wrote: > >It's probably a cheap part anyway. Depends how you define "cheap" I guess. I don't know what stock parts cost, but the Kuryakyn extended brake for a HD Softail runs about $80. Looks pretty much like the stock one except for length. To me a "cheap part" is something like an exhaust gasket, or a bit of wire, or maybe a bolt... :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 10 14:13:05 2003 From: "Bruce N" To: Subject: Re: GSXR Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 14:12:41 -0400 >From www.partsfish.com : 43110-17E00 PEDAL COMP, BRAKE $86.13 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Bartman" > At 11:36 AM 9/10/03 -0400, Carl Schelin wrote: > > > >It's probably a cheap part anyway. > > Depends how you define "cheap" I guess. I don't know what stock parts > cost, but the Kuryakyn extended brake for a HD Softail runs about $80. > Looks pretty much like the stock one except for length. > > To me a "cheap part" is something like an exhaust gasket, or a bit of wire, > or maybe a bolt... :^) > > -- Mike B. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 10 14:41:31 2003 Subject: Re: GSXR From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 10 Sep 2003 14:37:04 -0400 Interesting site I have to say. I couldn't find the Brake Lever (Pedal Comp, Brake) for the bike though. 1995 Suzuki GSX R750W Thanks though. I'll poke around for other things now that I have it. Thanks, Carl On Wed, 2003-09-10 at 14:12, Bruce N wrote: > >From www.partsfish.com : > > 43110-17E00 PEDAL COMP, BRAKE $86.13 > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Bartman" > > > At 11:36 AM 9/10/03 -0400, Carl Schelin wrote: > > > > > >It's probably a cheap part anyway. > > > > Depends how you define "cheap" I guess. I don't know what stock parts > > cost, but the Kuryakyn extended brake for a HD Softail runs about $80. > > Looks pretty much like the stock one except for length. > > > > To me a "cheap part" is something like an exhaust gasket, or a bit of > wire, > > or maybe a bolt... :^) > > > > -- Mike B. > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 10 14:49:35 2003 Subject: Re: GSXR From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 10 Sep 2003 14:45:25 -0400 On Wed, 2003-09-10 at 13:27, Mike Bartman wrote: > At 11:36 AM 9/10/03 -0400, Carl Schelin wrote: > > > >It's probably a cheap part anyway. > > Depends how you define "cheap" I guess. I don't know what stock parts > cost, but the Kuryakyn extended brake for a HD Softail runs about $80. > Looks pretty much like the stock one except for length. > > To me a "cheap part" is something like an exhaust gasket, or a bit of wire, > or maybe a bolt... :^) > Perhaps I misstated. I consider an item that exceeds $150 or so something I probably should check with Rita on before buying it. It depends on the item as well. I just spent $244 on computer books, humor books and moto magazines and she didn't say anything. She was there though. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 10 15:04:27 2003 Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 15:03:16 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: Pop-Rivits... Ladies, gentlemen, and bad-ass bikers: Repairing my aluminum boat has presented a few problems, such as rivits. Hardware store pop-rivits have a steel mandrel. Steel/aluminum, bad bad bad! Dreaded electroysis will eat the AL up, something about AL being a doner of electrons to many other metals. So I had to order AL rivits with an AL mandrel. The folks at Fischers Hardware in Springfield VA (shameless plug, the best hardware store in the area) got them for me. Minor hitch, special order rivits come in boxes of 250. I need about 50 ofr the 5/8" grip range, and a few dozen of the 3/8" and 1/8" grip range. Soooo, I now have a large collection of pop rivits! And 3/8 backing washers, also in a pack of 250. Those of you into m/c projects, or other projects, in need of pure AL rivits -- I got `em. Need a few give me a smile, need a handful give me a beer. Bill ---> Pop-Rivits `R Me From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 10 15:41:47 2003 Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 15:41:46 -0400 To: "William J. Huson" , "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Pop-Rivits... At 03:03 PM 9/10/03 -0400, William J. Huson wrote: >Ladies, gentlemen, and bad-ass bikers: > >Repairing my aluminum boat has presented a few problems, such as >rivits. Hardware store pop-rivits have a steel mandrel. >Steel/aluminum, bad bad bad! The other problem with hardware store pop-rivets is that they have hollow centers...if you are fixing seats, no problem, but if it's hull plates...bad bad bad! :^) There are solid core pop rivets made for fixing boat hulls, or so I've read. The mandrel part doesn't go all the way through, so there's no leak through the middle once you set them. You can even get them with countersunk heads, to reduce drag and avoid snags. You can see some here: http://www.rivetsinstock.com/rivet61.htm -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 10 15:48:55 2003 Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:48:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Weaver Subject: Moto Shows Schedule Announced To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX 2004 Cycle World Int'l Motorcycle Shows schedule is out. This year, the DC show is at the DC Convention Center, January 9-11. http://tinyurl.com/mwsb __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 10 17:17:47 2003 Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 17:17:08 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: chris_vtr@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Moto Shows Schedule Announced X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 COOL!!!! I live 2 blocks from it. No traveling for me this year. LOL Anyone wanna use my place as a meeting/hangout location, let me know. Scooter In a message dated 9/10/2003 3:48:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, chris_vtr@XXXXXX writes: > > > 2004 Cycle World Int'l Motorcycle Shows schedule is > out. This year, the DC show is at the DC Convention > Center, January 9-11. > > http://tinyurl.com/mwsb > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design > software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 10 18:55:38 2003 Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 18:54:25 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Mike Bartman CC: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Pop-Rivits... Mike Bartman wrote: > At 03:03 PM 9/10/03 -0400, William J. Huson wrote: > >Ladies, gentlemen, and bad-ass bikers: > > > >Repairing my aluminum boat has presented a few problems, such as > >rivits. Hardware store pop-rivits have a steel mandrel. > >Steel/aluminum, bad bad bad! > > The other problem with hardware store pop-rivets is that they have hollow > centers...if you are fixing seats, no problem, but if it's hull > plates...bad bad bad! :^) > > There are solid core pop rivets made for fixing boat hulls, or so I've > read. The mandrel part doesn't go all the way through, so there's no leak > through the middle once you set them. You can even get them with > countersunk heads, to reduce drag and avoid snags. Yes, waterproof rivits. Super waterproof have closed ends, these are fairly waterproof `cuase the mandrel ball stays inside the tube. No problem if it didn't, all interior/above waterline work. I have countersunk head pop rivits. Used them to tack on repair panels when fixing up a couple rusty old vehicles. Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 10 19:36:35 2003 From: "Mobacc" To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: Moto Shows Schedule Announced Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 19:34:53 -0400 Get out the reentry ink soap. >From Motorcycle Times: Two USA Cycle Promotions shows (generally HD-leaning IIRC) Jan 3-4 at Dulles Jan 10-11 at York fairgrounds Bill S. / DC '99 VN750 > Make the rounds come rain, snow, sleet, or hail. ??? Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From: Chris Weaver 2004 Cycle World Int'l Motorcycle Shows schedule is out. This year, the DC show is at the DC Convention Center, January 9-11. http://tinyurl.com/mwsb __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 10 20:34:00 2003 Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 20:33:53 -0400 From: Skip Smith To: "William J. Huson" CC: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Pop-Rivits... "William J. Huson" wrote: > I have countersunk head pop rivits. Used them to tack on repair panels when > fixing up a couple rusty old vehicles. I worked at an auto auction, and used to steal street signs and poprivet them in to fix holes in the floor. a little undercoating afterwards, and no one was any wiser. --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 10 21:14:18 2003 Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 18:13:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Larry Larson Subject: Re: Pop-Rivits... To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: Skip Smith --- Skip Smith wrote: > I worked at an auto auction, and used to steal street > signs.... I'm sure you meant to type that you used to "purchase used steel street signs", right? With all the ultra right-wing lawn order / homeland futility types on dc-cycles we wouldn't want you to get into any trouble.... 8;) -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 10 21:23:09 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: Re: Pop-Rivits... Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 21:22:45 -0400 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79fd99e1d2c046662f5ee4eb441706507f350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c > > I worked at an auto auction, and used to steal street > > signs.... > > I'm sure you meant to type that you used to "purchase used > steel street signs", right? > > With all the ultra right-wing lawn order / homeland > futility types on dc-cycles we wouldn't want you to get > into any trouble.... 8;) [Dave] Nah. Steal is the term used by the "ultra right wing" types. Attempting to say it in such a way as to lead the reader to believe that the act was somehow less than theft would be what the neo-socialists on the list would do ;-) They weren't misappropriated, redistributed among the lower class - they were stolen ! Dave Run Al Run ! http://www.al2004.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 11 02:11:55 2003 Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 02:10:18 -0400 To: Larry Larson , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Pop-Rivits... Cc: Skip Smith At 06:13 PM 9/10/03 -0700, Larry Larson wrote: >--- Skip Smith wrote: > >> I worked at an auto auction, and used to steal street >> signs.... > >I'm sure you meant to type that you used to "purchase used >steel street signs", right? > >With all the ultra right-wing lawn order / homeland >futility types on dc-cycles we wouldn't want you to get >into any trouble.... 8;) Or killed because someone ran a stop sign that wasn't there anymore... -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 11 09:39:17 2003 Subject: Bike's running From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 11 Sep 2003 09:34:39 -0400 Ok, last night I registered the GSX and have a nice new plate for her. I picked up a new battery at AutoAdvantage. I threw it on the charger after filling it with the acid and sealing it. It charged up in about an hour or so. I plugged in the battery, put the seats back on, put a half gallon of low-test (reg un; normally for the lawn mower but fresh). I checked the fluids, tire condition and air pressure. Amazingly enough everything was at least at the right levels. I'll get the fluids changed out this weekend I guess. It took a couple of tries to keep her going. The choke was a little stiff but eventually she was up. The head light wasn't working so I poked around in the wires on the right panel until the lights came on. I threw my full-face on and rolled her out of garage and the lights went out again. A couple of pokes and they were on again. With my feet down I put her in gear and rolled her up the cul-d-sac. As we moved forward the lights cut out again. Jeeze louise. A couple more pokes and the lights were on again. I asked Rita to grab my jacket and gloves. While I was waiting I poked around in the wires until I found the exact spot. The spot is taped up and poking it causes the lights to go on/off and causes the instrument lights to fade a little. I moved the wires around a bit until they stayed on. I threw my coat and gloves on and started cruising around the neighborhood. One of the things I noticed is the trail seems to be way back. The front end keeps wanting to flop to the left or right when stopped or moving _real_ slow. Second is getting my feet up on the pegs. I feel like a bird perched on a branch. And the left peg is either bent up a little or my feet are curved from riding cruisers :-) Third is how bent over I am. I can't imagine riding for any significant period of time without being very sore. Time to isolate some muscle groups at the gym :-) I moved out onto Darbydale intending on getting gas. I was up to 6th gear before I knew it, shifting by ear. Onto Minnieville, Dale Blvd and the Shell station. Turning the bike is different. On the Harley I'm pulling the handle bars to turn. Pull the opposite one to make a turn. On the GSX I have to push to turn because I'm bent over. I had a couple of quick slow downs until I got the hang of the mental change. I turn right on Minnieville heading to Smoketown. As I get to the Parkway I'm winding it up trying to get a little faster. When I think it's as high as it should go, I shift. I looked down and see that I'm at about 7k RPM's and redline is at 13.5k. I turned right on Smoketown and then again at Gideon. A right on Dale Blvd, left on Darbydale and home again. After I parked it I hopped on the Harley and rode it up and down the street. The sport bike is configured to make you part of the bike so you can eak out the most speed. On the Harley I felt like I was sitting in a chair with my feet up and enjoying the evening but without the bugs. Ah well, the bike seems to run ok. I'll see if I can get that wire stable and then run it down for inspection this afternoon. This morning my shoulder muscles are sore just from that little ride last night. Definitely more time at the gym is necessary. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 11 10:11:39 2003 Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 07:11:05 -0700 (PDT) From: matthew patton Subject: who parks at CG North? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I thought I heard a while back that our free parking spots were going away. Guess not. anyone on list park on the crumbling sidewalk by the repo yard across the street from CG North? I've been seeing more and more of those "giant scooters" even 2-up with persons of wide stature on both seats. They seem to be enjoying themselves... ===== * Love, not time, heals all wounds. * No one is perfect until you fall in love with them. And then when they aren't perfect anymore, love makes them perfect again. * Everyone wants to live on top of the mountain, but all the happiness and growth occurs while you're climbing it * You can not forgive unless you first love. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 11 10:36:26 2003 Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 10:05:45 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Erick Singley Subject: An idiot's tale Ever since I've run out of gas a few times while trying to work out the kinks on this older bike (front brakes slightly locking up/corroded - causing the engine to eat more gas to get me going; bad float settings, etc) - I've filled up my tank every morning with 3 bucks of gas. (70 miles round trip to work). This morning, I unlocked the tank and noticed, as usual, how floppy the key is in the lock. I thought to myself, "Self? Today, let's get the key out of the way before it falls out on its own." So, filling the tank with one gloved hand, and reaching for the key with the other, I managed to fumble the key *into* the open tank. Drat. This isn't fatal though, since the station has a service bay, as well. I'll just ask the mechanic for a bucket, drain the tank and shake out they key! Great. First I just need to pay for the gas. I close the tank (everyone see the problem here?) and walk inside to pay. Luckily my house was just a 1/2 mile walk to get a spare key.... Next thing to fix: I don't drive at night often, but i was reminded last night of a problem I found earlier. After driving for 20 miles on the highway - lots of other cars and some street lights - I pull onto the back roads for the way home. No other cars about so I flip on the high beams. Instant blackness. Am I dead? No,no. That's silly - did I blow the bulb, coincidentally? *flick* low beams work. *flick* blackness... but wait... there *is* a dim glow... coming from those trees.... Doh! The headlight is so misaligned it's not hitting the road at all. Easy screwdriver job. Quick newbie question -> When encountering grooved pavement - I'm told 'if the steering wants to shimmy - let it' Other than slowing down a bit - any other advice? Rt. 270, near the split, has a few areas that are being worked on. Erick 74' CB750 K4 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 11 10:48:42 2003 Subject: Re: An idiot's tale From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 11 Sep 2003 10:44:10 -0400 On Thu, 2003-09-11 at 10:05, Erick Singley wrote: > Quick newbie question -> When encountering grooved pavement - I'm > told 'if the steering wants to shimmy - let it' Other than slowing > down a bit - any other advice? Rt. 270, near the split, has a few > areas that are being worked on. > With the dunlops on the Harley the bike would shimmy and shake. Hold on but don't force it. After I put on the avons I hit a couple of the grooved areas and didn't have any problems. Nice and stable. It might be the rounder tires compared with the flatter Dunlops though. > Erick > 74' CB750 K4 Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 11 10:54:34 2003 Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 10:54:04 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: An idiot's tale To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Ever since I've run out of gas a few times while trying to >work out the kinks on this older bike (front brakes slightly >locking up/corroded - causing the engine to eat more gas to >get me going; bad float settings, etc) - I've filled up my >tank every morning with 3 bucks of gas. (70 miles round >trip to work). [Dave] Brakes are a bad thing to be questionable on any vehicle, but especially a bike. Most especially on an older bike. > >This morning, I unlocked the tank and noticed, as usual, how >floppy the key is in the lock. I thought to myself, "Self? >Today, let's get the key out of the way before it falls out >on its own." So, filling the tank with one gloved hand, and >reaching for the key with the other, I managed to fumble >the key *into* the open tank. > >Drat. This isn't fatal though, since the station has a >service bay, as well. I'll just ask the mechanic for a >bucket, drain the tank and shake out they key! Great. First >I just need to pay for the gas. I close the tank (everyone >see the problem here?) and walk inside to >pay. Luckily my house was just a 1/2 mile walk to get a >spare key.... [Dave] This day is Karmically bad for you to be at work. Clearly, the Fates have other plans for you this day, so I suggest using some sick leave and tending to your sick bike. ...I flip on the high beams. >Instant blackness. Am I dead? No,no. That's silly - did I >blow the bulb, coincidentally? *flick* low beams work. >*flick* blackness... but wait... there *is* a dim glow... >coming from those trees.... Doh! The headlight is so >misaligned it's not hitting the road at all. Easy >screwdriver job. [Dave] My 1st bike was a V45 Magna. Apparently, ~$20 was too much for the previous owner to pay for a motorcycle headlight, so he retrofitted a cage headlight, which had the look of a Franken-headlight, but worked... most of the time. Once, finally, the light went out... about 10 minutes with a tester fixed the problem though... Eventually, I had to replace the ignition harness - unbeknownst to me, the headlight problem was a _clue_ ... I got stranded at work finally... that sucked. > > >Quick newbie question -> When encountering grooved >pavement - I'm told 'if the steering wants to shimmy - let >it' Other than slowing down a bit - any other advice? Rt. >270, near the split, has a few areas that are being worked >on. [Dave] Correct. Don't fight the 'wiggle' produced by grooved pavement, or bridge grates. Here's another tip: Where they start to rip up the pavement to make those cool pavement grooves, they create a "lip" sometimes up to a couple inches in height. It's a good idea not to hit either end at WFO throttle. This happened to me on an exit ramp one night - not WFO, but more than half throttle. Looking back, I'm sure it was a really neat slide with plenty of wheel spin, but I prefer to think of traction as my friend... Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 11 11:14:13 2003 Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 11:12:25 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Erick Singley Subject: Re: An idiot's tale >[Dave] Brakes are a bad thing to be questionable on any >vehicle, but especially a bike. Most especially on an older >bike. *Nods* Not being able to stop until part way through an intersection was the big cluestick of "Fix this before you get killed." The front brake cylinders were corroded - sticking. We put new pads in, lightly sanded the chamber, put in new brake fluid. I think I replaced a few other things, too. Much nicer to be able to stop! :) Although also I've noticed that my rear-brake is missing a bolt that holds the toothed ring (that connects to the brake-rod) in place. Back to the parts store... >[Dave] This day is Karmically bad for you to be at work. >Clearly, the Fates have other plans for you this day, so I >suggest using some sick leave and tending to your sick bike. *sigh* i wish. Anyway, the ride was quite refreshing today - since it cooled me off from my walk! >...I flip on the high beams. > >[Dave] My 1st bike was a V45 Magna. Apparently, ~$20 was >too much for the previous owner to pay for a motorcycle >headlight, so he retrofitted a cage headlight, which had the >look of a Franken-headlight, but worked... most of the >time. Once, finally, the light went out... about 10 minutes >with a tester fixed the problem though... Eventually, I had >to replace the ignition harness - unbeknownst to me, the >headlight problem was a _clue_ ... I got stranded at work >finally... that sucked. I had quite a rats-nest behind my headlights. After resplicing a few wires I got rid of a number of shorts. I'm learning way more about fixing cycles that I had wanted to :) BTW - the new points I put in work fine. My "oops" moment there was "try not to let the timing-light spark-plug wire rest against the hot pipes..." > >Quick newbie question -> When encountering grooved >>pavement - I'm told 'if the steering wants to shimmy - let >>it' Other than slowing down a bit - any other advice? Rt. >>270, near the split, has a few areas that are being worked >>on. > >[Dave] Correct. Don't fight the 'wiggle' produced by >grooved pavement, or bridge grates. Here's another tip: >Where they start to rip up the pavement to make those cool >pavement grooves, they create a "lip" sometimes up to a >couple inches in height. It's a good idea not to hit either >end at WFO throttle. This happened to me on an exit ramp one >night - not WFO, but more than half throttle. Looking back, >I'm sure it was a really neat slide with plenty of wheel >spin, but I prefer to think of traction as my friend... Good to know. thanks to all. Erick > >Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 11 11:47:52 2003 Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 11:46:16 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Erick Singley CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: An idiot's tale Erick Singley wrote: > Quick newbie question -> When encountering grooved pavement - I'm > told 'if the steering wants to shimmy - let it' Other than slowing > down a bit - any other advice? Rt. 270, near the split, has a few > areas that are being worked on. > > Erick > 74' CB750 K4 I call that the "squiggles". Bridge gratings, rain-grooved highways, and the grind up the asphalt for a repave gouges cause squiggles. Not dangerous unless the bike is a piece of crap with various trashed suspension/steering parts. Just hold the handlebars but don't fight it. The squiggles are kinda nice while on a long haul, gives the ol' butt a massage :-) Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 11 12:54:46 2003 Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 09:54:16 -0700 (PDT) From: matthew patton Subject: racetech goldvalve tuning question To: sales@XXXXXX All 4 of the bike's I've owned have been equipped with damper rod forks and have received the racetech GV Emulator and Spring treatment to good effect. Unfortunately this latest application, a 2001 Kawi ZR-7s is not listed in the database so I had to guess given my previous experience with a Honda CB750, Triumph Trident, and Suz GS500e. It's been an improvement but a few things are bugging me. I selected the 41mm emulators with the 64in/lb springs, 0.85 or was it 0.8kg/mm springs, and used 10w fork oil for a 180lb (with gear) rider. Front rider sag is 38mm, rear 25mm. This is what I'm observing. Any insight would be much appreciated. 1) at small and steady throttle (thus hopefully a stable chassis) travelling at 25 to 35mph there is a noticable bounce to the front end. At a rate of about 4 or 5 times a second it will occilate up and down and continue to do so indefinately at those speeds. It's not a big movement but I can readily feel and likewise see my hands/wrists bouncing up and down. It happens on practically any paved surface so I know it's not just some random bit of road with imperfections. 2) The front will pop up when transitioning into a lean before settling and any bumps encountered at lean cause the front to kick up and sometimes stand the bike up. 3) Big, square bumps at high speed (60mph) are markedly improved over stock but down around 30-40mph the whack is very noticable. Enough to get annoying. What's interesting about this one is that if I'm dragging the front brake some so that the forks are compressed a bit more than they normally would be, the same bumps are handled phenominally well. Given my limited knowledge of suspension tuning it would appear that I need to try 15w fork oil to settle the front for problems #2 and likely #1. Problem #3 seems to indicate I need to back off on the compression damping (which is stock at 2 turns out of 0 thru 4) but I don't know how much difference each 1/2 turn or full turn makes. Can somebody tell me how sensitive the comp damping is to screw turns? This is probably my biggest question because I don't want to have to open the forks up a dozen times. I also don't want the adjustment for #3 to make #1 any worse. Help? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 11 13:15:39 2003 Reply-To: "Jon Strang" From: "Jon Strang" To: Subject: Re: An idiot's tale Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 13:15:30 -0400 If the brakes are in-fact dragging, the rotor (or drum, if that the case) would get red hot, the brake fluid will (sooner or later) boil, potentially causing the front brake to fail and lock up. > >Ever since I've run out of gas a few times while trying to > >work out the kinks on this older bike (front brakes slightly > >locking up/corroded From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 11 13:53:54 2003 Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 13:53:22 -0400 From: Skip CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: An idiot's tale Jon Strang wrote: > > If the brakes are in-fact dragging, the rotor (or drum, if that the case) > would get red hot, the brake fluid will (sooner or later) boil, potentially > causing the front brake to fail and lock up. > > > >Ever since I've run out of gas a few times while trying to > > >work out the kinks on this older bike (front brakes slightly > > >locking up/corroded if the fluid boils, it shouldn't lock up, it will just not work. --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 11 14:03:26 2003 Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 13:57:44 -0400 From: "Steven C. Di Pietro" To: DCCycles Subject: Now this would be nice...... X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at pop017.verizon.net from [151.196.44.171] at Thu, 11 Sep 2003 13:03:15 -0500 This came through on one of my other MC lists, I cant wait 'till this is on the open market! Steven C. Di Pietro Interim National Director The Suzuki Owners Club -USA 16 W. Jeffrey Street Baltimore Md. 21225-1713 http://www.soc-usa.org 1996 Suzuki Katana 600 2001 Suzuki Marauder 800 http://optics.org/articles/news/9/9/3/1 Electronic visor aids motorcyclists 3 September 2003 Electrochromic motorcycle visors developed in Sweden may help prevent road accidents. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 11 14:12:23 2003 Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 14:12:14 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Erick Singley Subject: Re: An idiot's tale (sorry for the dupe, Skip) Well, it's all been replaced and repaired some time ago (as not being able to stop right was a critical problem), so no need to argue the point on my behalf. :) I'd have to go back and look at the older part - but I seem to recall some metal-metal corrosion/ electrolysis going on (maybe at the tubing entrance) as well as the inside bore and cylinder having corrosion. I no longer recall what the fluids looked like inside once I drained it to work on it. Like an old house with previous owners, it's hard to know when things have gotten worked on, what hidden damage one should worry about, and the cost effectiveness of braking things down vs future safety issues. Once I can afford a newer bike (being a pure commuter I'm leaning towards the e-cycle.com) I can worry less about the next thing to fix and more on enjoying my ride. ("huh. is that the wind, or is my power/speed fluctuating? Is the engine skipping?" etc) enjoying the whole journey, Erick >Jon Strang wrote: >> >> If the brakes are in-fact dragging, the rotor (or drum, if that the case) >> would get red hot, the brake fluid will (sooner or later) boil, potentially >> causing the front brake to fail and lock up. >> >> > >Ever since I've run out of gas a few times while trying to >> > >work out the kinks on this older bike (front brakes slightly > > > >locking up/corroded > >if the fluid boils, it shouldn't lock up, it will just not work. > --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 11 14:43:00 2003 Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 14:42:49 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: steven.dipietro@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Now this would be nice...... X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 Wow. That's pretty cool. I'll take two. :-) Anyone still have the article about the hi-tech helmet with built-in heads-up display? Put the two of them together and I don't think I'd ever want to take my helmet off. LOL Scooter In a message dated 9/11/2003 1:57:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, steven.dipietro@XXXXXX writes: > > > > This came through on one of my other MC lists, I cant wait 'till this > is on the open market! > > > > > Steven C. Di Pietro > Interim National Director > The Suzuki Owners Club -USA > 16 W. Jeffrey Street > Baltimore Md. 21225-1713 > http://www.soc-usa.org > 1996 Suzuki Katana 600 > 2001 Suzuki Marauder 800 > > > > http://optics.org/articles/news/9/9/3/1 > > Electronic visor aids motorcyclists > 3 September 2003 > > Electrochromic motorcycle visors developed in Sweden may > help prevent > road accidents. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 11 14:49:51 2003 Subject: RE: Helmet technology (Was: Nice...) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 14:49:42 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: , , Personally, I like the Bluetooth headset option in the Schuberth helmets... ;-) http://www.smartrider.com/download/FENNIA_KB03_GB.doc However, on the issue of dark/clear visors, there has been a lense for welding helmets available for some time, that darkens in a fraction of a second when hit with high-intensity light. Probably a bit too dark for even squid riders but hey... http://www.tbws.co.uk/auto_darkening__helmets.asp Robert Verde -----Original Message----- From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX [mailto:ScooterFZR@XXXXXX] Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 2:43 PM To: steven.dipietro@XXXXXX; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Now this would be nice...... Wow. That's pretty cool. I'll take two. :-) Anyone still have the article about the hi-tech helmet with built-in heads-up display? Put the two of them together and I don't think I'd ever want to take my helmet off. LOL Scooter From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 11 15:16:53 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: An idiot's tale Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 15:19:04 -0500 I had AVON AV35/36 on my Hawk GT and it did pretty good on= grooved pavement.=A0 They were pretty nice tires and they have a pretty ne= at tread design....

Rob

--=20
Rob Sharp=20
SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000=20
Network Security Engineer

---------- Original Message -----------
From: Carl Schelin <cschelin@XXXXXX>=20
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX=20
Sent: 11 Sep 2003 10:44:10 -0400=20
Subject: Re: An idiot's tale=20

> On Thu, 2003-09-11 at 10:05, Erick Singley wrote:=20
>=20
>=20 > Quick newbie question -> =A0When encountering grooved pavement - I'= m=20=20
>=20 > told 'if the steering wants to shimmy - let it' =A0Other than slowing= =20=20
>=20 > down a bit - any other advice? Rt. 270, near the split, has a few=20= =20
>=20 > areas that are being worked on.=20
>=20 >=20=20
>=20
>=20 With the dunlops on the Harley the bike would shimmy and shake. Hold on=20
>=20 but don't force it. After I put on the avons I hit a couple of the=20
>=20 grooved areas and didn't have any problems. Nice and stable. It might be=20
>=20 the rounder tires compared with the flatter Dunlops though.=20
>=20
>=20 > Erick=20
>=20 > 74' CB750 K4=20
>=20
>=20 Carl=20
------- End of Original Message -------
From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 11 16:07:55 2003 Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 16:07:54 -0400 To: "Steven C. Di Pietro" , DCCycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Now this would be nice...... At 01:57 PM 9/11/03 -0400, Steven C. Di Pietro wrote: >http://optics.org/articles/news/9/9/3/1 > >Electronic visor aids motorcyclists >3 September 2003 > >Electrochromic motorcycle visors developed in Sweden may help prevent >road accidents. An alternative might be the helmet I tried on the other day. It's from Germany, and has a built-in sun visor that lowers or raises with a tab on the left side. Flip it down and you have an inch and a half of wrap-around smoked plastic over your eyes, inside the clear visor. Flip it up and it disappears into the upper part of the helmet. Cool, and no batteries! The helmet also had lots of vents and a flip-up chin bar, as well as built-in spoiler at the back (I presume the same sort of thing that "Rumble Strips" are for). About $450. Unfortunately, that helmet didn't fit me... -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 11 16:28:30 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: "Rob Sharp" , Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: An idiot's tale Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 16:30:44 -0500 Sorry for the HTML mail. Just switched to a new version of my mail client. Rob -- Rob Sharp SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer ---------- Original Message ----------- From: "Rob Sharp" To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Sent: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 15:19:04 -0500 Subject: Re: An idiot's tale > I had AVON AV35/36 on my Hawk GT and it did pretty good on grooved > pavement. They were pretty nice tires and they have a pretty neat > tread design.... > > Rob > > -- > Rob Sharp > SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 > Network Security Engineer > > ---------- Original Message ----------- > From: Carl Schelin > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Sent: 11 Sep 2003 10:44:10 -0400 > Subject: Re: An idiot's tale > > > On Thu, 2003-09-11 at 10:05, Erick Singley wrote: > > > > > Quick newbie question -> When encountering grooved pavement - I'm > > > told 'if the steering wants to shimmy - let it' Other than slowing > > > down a bit - any other advice? Rt. 270, near the split, has a few > > > areas that are being worked on. > > > > > > > With the dunlops on the Harley the bike would shimmy and shake. Hold on > > but don't force it. After I put on the avons I hit a couple of the > > grooved areas and didn't have any problems. Nice and stable. It might be > > the rounder tires compared with the flatter Dunlops though. > > > > > Erick > > > 74' CB750 K4 > > > > Carl > ------- End of Original Message ------- ------- End of Original Message ------- From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 11 16:37:04 2003 Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 13:37:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Larry Larson Subject: Re: Now this would be nice...... To: Mike Bartman , DCCycles --- Mike Bartman wrote: > An alternative might be the helmet I tried on the other > day. It's from > Germany, and has a built-in sun visor that lowers or > raises with a tab on > the left side. Flip it down and you have an inch and a > half of wrap-around > smoked plastic over your eyes, inside the clear visor. > Flip it up and it > disappears into the upper part of the helmet. Cool, and > no batteries! The Schuberth flip-up that BMW sells has such a screen. You haven't been off test riding BMWs, have you? I wondered why the dc-Bartman list was so quiet today... -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 11 17:27:33 2003 Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 17:42:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: DCCycles Subject: Re: Now this would be nice...... On Thu, 11 Sep 2003, Larry Larson wrote: > The Schuberth flip-up that BMW sells has such a screen. You > haven't been off test riding BMWs, have you? I wondered why > the dc-Bartman list was so quiet today... > > -- Larry They're not BMW-specific, you can buy them at a lot of places... and c'mon Larry, Mike wouldn't fit on a BMW ;-) -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 11 17:29:28 2003 Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 17:29:06 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: omni@XXXXXX, steven.dipietro@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Now this would be nice...... X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 That would be a Schuberth. Where'd you try one on at? I wanted to try one but not sure where around here they would be. Scooter In a message dated 9/11/2003 4:07:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, omni@XXXXXX writes: > > > At 01:57 PM 9/11/03 -0400, Steven C. Di Pietro wrote: > > >http://optics.org/articles/news/9/9/3/1 > > > >Electronic visor aids motorcyclists > >3 September 2003 > > > >Electrochromic motorcycle visors developed in Sweden may help prevent > >road accidents. > > An alternative might be the helmet I tried on the other day. It's from > Germany, and has a built-in sun visor that lowers or raises with a tab on > the left side. Flip it down and you have an inch and a half of wrap-around > smoked plastic over your eyes, inside the clear visor. Flip it up and it > disappears into the upper part of the helmet. Cool, and no batteries! > > The helmet also had lots of vents and a flip-up chin bar, as well as > built-in spoiler at the back (I presume the same sort of thing that "Rumble > Strips" are for). About $450. > > Unfortunately, that helmet didn't fit me... > > -- Mike B. > > **************************************************************************** > * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * > * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * > * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * > *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* > * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * > ************************************************************ > **************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 11 17:31:56 2003 Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 17:47:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Now this would be nice...... On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: > That would be a Schuberth. Where'd you try one on at? I wanted to try one but not sure where around here they would be. > > Scooter Battley sells 'em. Cool helmets, sort of a weird shape. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 11 18:57:19 2003 Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 18:53:16 -0400 To: Larry Larson , DCCycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Now this would be nice...... At 01:37 PM 9/11/03 -0700, Larry Larson wrote: >--- Mike Bartman wrote: > >> An alternative might be the helmet I tried on the other >> day. It's from >> Germany, and has a built-in sun visor that lowers or >> raises with a tab on >> the left side. Flip it down and you have an inch and a >> half of wrap-around >> smoked plastic over your eyes, inside the clear visor. >> Flip it up and it >> disappears into the upper part of the helmet. Cool, and >> no batteries! > >The Schuberth flip-up that BMW sells has such a screen. The helmet was a Schuberth Concept. Info here: http://www.motorsports-network.com/prodtest/ifwhelm/schelmet.htm >You haven't been off test riding BMWs, have you? Nope, buying a Harley... > wondered why the dc-Bartman list was so quiet today... Just giving you the day off. You can go back to reading it again soon. :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 11 18:57:20 2003 Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 18:56:09 -0400 To: Wayne Edelen , DCCycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Now this would be nice...... At 05:42 PM 9/11/03 -0400, Wayne Edelen wrote: >They're not BMW-specific, you can buy them at a lot of places... Well, Rockville Harley does also sell BMW, and that's where I saw the helmet, but there's nothing on it to make it specific to any bike maker. The only helmets I saw there that had bike maker tags were from Harley-Davidson (made by HJC I believe). >and c'mon Larry, Mike wouldn't fit on a BMW ;-) Well I sure didn't fit in that helmet! The one that was the right size around wasn't the right depth...had a couple of inches of face hanging out the bottom. As for BMW fit, the big one isn't bad (RS1200GS or something like that?), but I liked the FLSTC better! :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 11 18:57:20 2003 Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 18:57:16 -0400 To: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX, steven.dipietro@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Now this would be nice...... At 05:29 PM 9/11/03 -0400, ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: >That would be a Schuberth. Where'd you try one on at? I wanted to try one but not sure where around here they would be. Rockville Harley (Battley Cycles), on Airpark Road, in Gaithersburg. Want directions? :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 11 22:41:48 2003 Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 22:56:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Idiots on 270 today I know we see idiots all the time, but these 3 really rose to the top today during my commute home. I was non-HOV in one of my cages... Idiot #1 - Yamaha R6, blue with blue screen. Dude is riding in leather jacket, khakis and sneakers. Heels of his feet are on the pegs with his feet poking out to either side :-) He's cruising in the HOV lane, ~2ft off the bumper of the car in front of him... he then decides that he can get 2 cars ahead by cutting across 3 lanes to the right, then darting back to the left... which he does with no signal and *NO* head turn. He was about 1/2 a bike length in front of my car when he executed this manuever. And just as before, he parks his bike square in the middle of the lane less than 1 bike length behind the FULL SIZE VAN in front of him. Idiot #2 - Can't remember the bike, some type of sportbike, but he was wearing jeans, a ratty t-shirt, sneakers and a helmet. He had no gloves, no jacket, and was riding with one hand in HOV passing cars that were moving about 30mph slower than him. He also had the heels of his feet on the pegs, poking almost straight out on both sides :-) He wasn't as bad as R6-boy, but the gear and lack of readiness while riding made me cringe. Idiot #3 - Cager, could have been your grandmother, is in the middle lane where the 3 lanes go into 2 heading north on 270 just north of Germantown. She is quickly (well as fast as the hamster in her econo-shit-box could move her) speeding up and slowing down to avoid letting people get in front of her from the far right lane that is ending. This in itself is not unusual for this area :-) What amused me was that when the girl front of her let someone in, this lady went absolutely insane. I truly was shocked at her reaction. For a solid 30 seconds, she was screaming inside her car, violently shaking her head side to side and beating both fists on the steering wheel. Absolutely amazing. I was surprised she didn't drop dead right there on the spot. :-) Anyway, just thought I'd share some of the daily fun on 270. ;-) -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 11 23:29:37 2003 Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 23:27:03 -0400 To: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX, steven.dipietro@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Now this would be nice...... At 08:57 PM 9/11/03 EDT, ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: >>>> In a message dated 9/11/2003 6:57:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, omni@XXXXXX writes: At 05:29 PM 9/11/03 -0400, ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: >That would be a Schuberth. Where'd you try one on at? I wanted to try one but not sure where around here they would be. Rockville Harley (Battley Cycles), on Airpark Road, in Gaithersburg. Want directions? :^) -- Mike B. Thanks. I think I have them. I'll let you know if I don't. :-) Ok. You can follow signs for some of the final distance...they are about a block away from GAI (Montgomery County Airpark...the local airport)...go like you're headed for the airport, then make a left into their parking lot a couple of blocks before you get there. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 12 08:04:01 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 05:03:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Nick Thompson Subject: Re: Idiots on 270 today To: Wayne Edelen , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Wouldn't that make for an interesting story... "Woman dies of coronary due to other polite motorists in front of her..." I don't know why it is that people in this area just can't drive. This area contains some of the poorest drivers I've ever seen. I especially hate when you try to use the passing lane to pass someone and some asshole is going 55mph and will not move over no matter what. But, then again, I'm understanding that it is leagal to pass on the right in MD (go figure!). As far as the squids you saw on 270...well, let's just leave that one alone. Nick --- Wayne Edelen wrote: > I know we see idiots all the time, but these 3 > really rose to the top > today during my commute home. I was non-HOV in one > of my cages... > > Idiot #1 - Yamaha R6, blue with blue screen. Dude > is riding in leather > jacket, khakis and sneakers. Heels of his feet are > on the pegs with his > feet poking out to either side :-) He's cruising > in the HOV lane, ~2ft > off the bumper of the car in front of him... he then > decides that he can > get 2 cars ahead by cutting across 3 lanes to the > right, then darting back > to the left... which he does with no signal and *NO* > head turn. He was > about 1/2 a bike length in front of my car when he > executed this manuever. > And just as before, he parks his bike square in the > middle of the lane > less than 1 bike length behind the FULL SIZE VAN in > front of him. > > Idiot #2 - Can't remember the bike, some type of > sportbike, but he was > wearing jeans, a ratty t-shirt, sneakers and a > helmet. He had no gloves, > no jacket, and was riding with one hand in HOV > passing cars that were > moving about 30mph slower than him. He also had the > heels of his feet on > the pegs, poking almost straight out on both sides > :-) He wasn't as bad > as R6-boy, but the gear and lack of readiness while > riding made me cringe. > > Idiot #3 - Cager, could have been your grandmother, > is in the middle > lane where the 3 lanes go into 2 heading north on > 270 just north of > Germantown. She is quickly (well as fast as the > hamster in her > econo-shit-box could move her) speeding up and > slowing down to avoid > letting people get in front of her from the far > right lane that is ending. > This in itself is not unusual for this area :-) > What amused me was that > when the girl front of her let someone in, this lady > went absolutely > insane. I truly was shocked at her reaction. For a > solid 30 seconds, she > was screaming inside her car, violently shaking her > head side to side and > beating both fists on the steering wheel. > Absolutely amazing. I was > surprised she didn't drop dead right there on the > spot. :-) > > Anyway, just thought I'd share some of the daily fun > on 270. ;-) > > -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 12 08:42:22 2003 Subject: GSXR Part III From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 12 Sep 2003 08:38:11 -0400 Ok, other than a problem with overheating she seems to be ready to roll. I took her in for inspection last night and got in just under the wire. A quick check of lights, horn, tires and brakes and we were back on the road (Coleman's in Woodbridge, BTW). On the way home some BDC in a BMW was a little disrespectful of lane position and needed a couple of toots. Behind the nice enclosure of his air conditioned, bum warming, blaupunkt (whatever) MAPAK[0] vehicle he quietly mouthed some words to me in the mirror. I just crooked my finger at him (c'mere boy) at the light. He just ignored me though. This morning I rode her in as well. Never got above 7k (remember, odo/speedo is broken) and still kept up with traffic. I suspect we were doing 75 to 80 though based on past experience. No problems on the ride though. She kept nice and cool until I got into the city when she heated right up. Fluid change out Sunday. Of course some guy in the right lane decided he didn't want to turn right. He hit the turn signal, started to move, saw me, paused, _and_went_anyway_. SOB. A couple of toots (need a bigger horn) and the universal gesture (which was returned) and I continued on to the parking spot. Yea I know it's going to rain today. I have my gear and I'll drive carefully just like always. I have to think though. Is the last of respect for the sport biker due to the squidly behavior or the other way around? I was certainly tempted after last night and this morning. And the lack of waves. Man. When I'm on the hawg I get waves from most of the other cruisers and standards and about half of the sport bikers (which almost seem surprised at times). On the sport bike, nothing. I wanted to put on a flag that said "I drive a Harley too!" just to get some waves :-) At a light last night I briefly chatted with an older guy with a HOG sticker on his beat up looking red truck. "How fast does she go?" "F*** if I know, the speedo's broken." "Looks comfortable." "Not so far :-) (which he couldn't see because of my full-face)" Then the light changed. Later, Carl [0] Middle-Aged Professional Ass Kisser From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 12 09:18:43 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 09:17:31 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Nick Thompson CC: Wayne Edelen , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Idiots on 270 today Nick Thompson wrote: > This area contains some of the poorest drivers I've ever seen. I > especially hate when you try to use the passing lane > to pass someone and some asshole is going 55mph and > will not move over no matter what. But, then again, > I'm understanding that it is leagal to pass on the > right in MD (go figure!). Not legal to pass on the right in VA. Got a ticket for that once, but there were *ahem* extenuating circumstances. Back in `64 I wuz driving a ratty Ford station wagon with crappy brakes and it was loaded to the window line with bags of white portland cement and marbled dust, the ingrediants for plastering a swimming pool. Little old lady in her Caddilac STOPPED on the merge lane to 495! I had two problems, the dang grossly overloaded car might have trouble stopping, and if it did stop it would take me several miles to get the dang thing up to road speed, not exactly a smooth merge. So I punched the gas and blew by the little old lady on the merge lane shoulder, than conveniently merged (going about 70) right in front of a state trooper. *whoop-whoop-whoop* Not my brightest moment. Ticket for passing on the right and a lecture... Un the bright side, historically speaking, when I entered the court to pay my ticket I was corralle din a corner by a cadre of deputy sheriffs and patted down. I see a passell of media folks present and I'm going whutinhell's this about? The year was 1964, the civil rights act had been passed. Enter a tall football player size African American man and a petite honky redhead with freckles. They were there, the number one couple, to legally purchase a marriage license. The times were a-changing... Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 12 09:19:59 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 09:19:50 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Erick Singley Subject: Re: Idiots on 270 today >I know we see idiots all the time, but these 3 really rose to the top >today during my commute home. I was non-HOV in one of my cages... > Luckily, none of those bike idiots match me :) >Idiot #3 - Cager, > >Anyway, just thought I'd share some of the daily fun on 270. ;-) > >-- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ Let me chime in with mine: this morning I know my horn worked when I rode out to get gas and a newspaper. Later on 270 when the Hummer tried to merge into me - the wire had come loose. Shook my fist instead and got the "sorry!" wave. The subconscious is an interesting thing. There was a 3?4? car accident this morning on 270 backing things up. The HOV lane was slowing down as people were coming over into it to get around the stopped cars. All I knew at the time was that I was going 10 mph and was wondering why. I thought, 'Hey! I can stand on my pegs and see over the cars!' As I did so, the bike starts to wobble and I start to put my foot down to steady myself. My subconscious yells at me, "Bad! No biscuit! Ease on the throttle to get stability back - you need to be going 15 mpg to pull that, didn't you pay attention in MSF class?" So I did, evened out easily, and I didn't break my leg after all :) Erick 74' CB750 (last night - adjusted headlight, tightened mirrors so they stopped flopping, tightened rear turn signal so it didn't point down. I know I'm missing something I needed to do sans parts...) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 12 09:40:06 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 09:40:02 -0400 From: "Chris Norloff" Reply-To: To: "Steven C. Di Pietro" , DCCycles , Mike Bartman Subject: Schubert & Ski-Doo/Bombardier helmets That sounds like the Schuberth. They're supposed to have a XXXL (that is more like an XXL). I'd like to try one of those myself. Ski-Doo/Bombardier have DOT-approved snowmobile helmets with similar features - their "Modular" helmet (up to XXXL size) http://www.ski-doo.com/docs/322/2_50_US.htm and another one that looks like it's from Star Wars: http://www.ski-doo.com/media/pr_bv2s_helmet_en.pdf Chris Norloff ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Mike Bartman Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 16:07:54 -0400 >At 01:57 PM 9/11/03 -0400, Steven C. Di Pietro wrote: > >>http://optics.org/articles/news/9/9/3/1 >> >>Electronic visor aids motorcyclists >>3 September 2003 >> >>Electrochromic motorcycle visors developed in Sweden may help prevent >>road accidents. > >An alternative might be the helmet I tried on the other day. It's from >Germany, and has a built-in sun visor that lowers or raises with a tab on >the left side. Flip it down and you have an inch and a half of wrap-around >smoked plastic over your eyes, inside the clear visor. Flip it up and it >disappears into the upper part of the helmet. Cool, and no batteries! > >The helmet also had lots of vents and a flip-up chin bar, as well as >built-in spoiler at the back (I presume the same sort of thing that "Rumble >Strips" are for). About $450. > >Unfortunately, that helmet didn't fit me... > >-- Mike B. > >**************************************************************************** >* Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * >* Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * >* omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * >*--------------------------------------------------------------------------* >* "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * >**************************************************************************** > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 12 10:14:05 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 10:13:55 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Idiots on 270 today To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Nick Thompson wrote: > >> This area contains some of the poorest drivers I've ever >>seen. >> I especially hate when you try to use the passing lane >> to pass someone and some asshole is going 55mph and >> will not move over no matter what. But, then again, >> I'm understanding that it is leagal to pass on the >> right in MD (go figure!). [Dave] Yes, that is true. The rub is, there isn't enough roadway in rush hours ( plural ) to use the left lane only for passing. And that's everywhere around here, not just the interstates. To Hell with Social Security! MORE PAVEMENT ! > >Not legal to pass on the right in VA. Got a ticket for that >once, but there were *ahem* extenuating circumstances. Back >in `64 I wuz driving [Dave] 18 or 19 ? ;-) >a ratty Ford station wagon with crappy brakes ...Little old >lady in her Caddilac STOPPED on the merge lane to 495...I >punched the gas and blew by the little old lady on the merge >lane shoulder, than conveniently merged (going >about 70) right in front of a state trooper. *whoop-whoop- >whoop* Not my brightest moment. Ticket for passing on the >right and a lecture... [Dave] I'm betting that he too umbrage at your improper use of the shoulder, not which direction you chose to do your "fly by" ... Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 12 10:19:51 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 10:19:54 -0400 To: Nick Thompson , Wayne Edelen , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Idiots on 270 today At 05:03 AM 9/12/03 -0700, Nick Thompson wrote: >Wouldn't that make for an interesting story... >"Woman dies of coronary due to other polite motorists >in front of her..." That combined with the really rude ones who refuse to merge when they should, and instead stay in a lane that is going away until the last possible second so that they can drive past all the polite motorists who did merge when they should have, and in so doing create the backup that they are trying to avoid by shoving in and making those behind them hit the brakes... I can easily understand why that woman was upset at the situation...though I do think she overreacted a fair bit from the description. "Road rage" is caused by assholes, but for some reason we don't go after *them*, but rather their victims. Why is that? >I don't know why it is that >people in this area just can't drive. This area >contains some of the poorest drivers I've ever seen. I'm with you there! In Boston they are nuts, but fairly competent. In California they are fast, but fairly competent. In Minneapolis they drive too fast on snow-covered roads, but they are fairly competent. Here they are nuts, fast and drive like they've been pithed on snow-covered roads...and they are incompetent too! >I especially hate when you try to use the passing lane >to pass someone and some asshole is going 55mph and >will not move over no matter what. But, then again, >I'm understanding that it is leagal to pass on the >right in MD (go figure!). That "don't pass on the right" thing is a leftover bit of folk wisdom from the days of two lane roads with light traffic. While there are still some slight reasons to prefer passing on the left, with 6 lane roads it's pretty much a moot point and I've never heard of anyone getting pulled over for being in the middle lane and going faster than cars in both the right and left ones. The tradition persists in some places (like Pennsylvania), but I don't know whether it's still in the law there or not. Before I'd get surprised that someone passed on the right I'd be amazed to find out that they know that you aren't allowed to change more than one lane at a time, that when making a right turn you should end up in the right lane, that the double-yellow line should not intercept any part of you or your vehicle if extended upwards, and that it's "right turn on red *AFTER STOP*", not just "right turn on red" (i.e. you have to come to a complete halt AND YIELD to oncomming traffic before you can make your right if the light is red). Very few drivers in this area seem to be at all familiar with any of these basic driving laws. BTW - on a two lane road, when someone is stopped to make a left turn, you *are* allowed to use the shoulder of the road to pass them on the right...but ONLY THEM! You are NOT allowed to pass them and the guy stopped behind them, or the guy behind him, etc.. You can pass ONE vehicle, no more. This is something that almost nobody in this area seems to be familiar with...and I've seen some caved-in doors that seem to indicate that at least a few of them may have learned the hard way why that law was passed. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 12 10:25:56 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 10:31:13 -0400 (EDT) From: dan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Idiots on 270 today On Fri, 12 Sep 2003, Dave Yates wrote: > >Nick Thompson wrote: > > > >> This area contains some of the poorest drivers I've ever > >>seen. > >> I especially hate when you try to use the passing lane > >> to pass someone and some asshole is going 55mph and > >> will not move over no matter what. But, then again, > >> I'm understanding that it is leagal to pass on the > >> right in MD (go figure!). > > [Dave] Yes, that is true. The rub is, there isn't enough > roadway in rush hours ( plural ) to use the left lane only > for passing. And that's everywhere around here, not just the > interstates. To Hell with Social Security! MORE PAVEMENT ! Yeah, I think we all realize that the left lane isn't ONLY for passing, but the fucking morons that go 55 in it while traffic goes 70+ in the other X number of lanes are the problem. I'd say 90% are trying to do some sort of traffic control because traffic is moving too fast for them. Got in a nice bout of road rage with an ass like that in a black Accord earlier this week. Dan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 12 10:31:08 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 10:25:23 -0400 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: GSXR Part III At 08:38 AM 9/12/03 -0400, Carl Schelin wrote: >He hit the turn signal, started to move, saw me, paused, >_and_went_anyway_. SOB. A couple of toots (need a bigger horn) and the >universal gesture (which was returned) and I continued on to the parking >spot. It's bad enough when they act like homicidal morons, but when they can't even accept the well-earned gesture without being belligerent, it torques me off in a big way. Boot-to-the-door is a likely response (based on past experience :^), and if he wants to escalate it farther, that's fine. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 12 10:31:12 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 10:31:14 -0400 To: "William J. Huson" , Nick Thompson From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Idiots on 270 today Cc: Wayne Edelen , dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 09:17 AM 9/12/03 -0400, William J. Huson wrote: > >not exactly a smooth merge. So I punched the gas and blew by the little >old lady on the merge lane shoulder, than conveniently merged (going >about 70) right in front of a state trooper. *whoop-whoop-whoop* Not my >brightest moment. Ticket for passing on the right and a lecture... That one I might have argued in court. You are allowed to do things that are otherwise illegal if they are necessary to avoid an accident. In fact you might even be *required* to do so in some cases (for instance, it's illegal to destroy private property, but if you have to run over a newspaper vending machine to avoid running over the kid who just ran into traffic in front of you, nobody is going to bug you about it...so long as you pay for the damages). The only factor in your case that might make me reconsider that is the overloaded state of your car...might get you an "operating a vehicle in an unsafe manner" ticket, which might be worse. ;^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 12 10:32:58 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 10:32:23 -0400 From: Skip CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Idiots on 270 today Dave Yates wrote: > [Dave] Yes, that is true. The rub is, there isn't enough > roadway in rush hours ( plural ) to use the left lane only > for passing. And that's everywhere around here, not just the > interstates. To Hell with Social Security! MORE PAVEMENT ! *ahem* "cover it with ASPHALT!" everytime I see that slogan, I think of the "Sherwin Williams" logo --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 12 10:40:01 2003 From: pam@XXXXXX To: Mike Bartman Cc: Nick Thompson , Wayne Edelen , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Idiots on 270 today Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 10:39:57 -0400 I'm from Boston and this has got to be the first time anyone has categorized us as 'competent'. Thank you, thank you. One of the major differences between Boston and DC drivers is context. The roadways in NE create dangerous situations. (if you've ever had to go through the Williams Tunnel at rush hour, you'll know what I mean--eight lanes of traffic down to two after the toll). Here the people do. There must be some sense of entitlement associated with a small piece of tar. Additionally, the DC locals I've talked to about this always blame people who move into the area for the problems. It's sort of a 'I'm OK, you're not OK' type of syndrome. My question is, what does it really matter? I'm always looking for ways to help improve the drive when I'm on the road. Oft times I've had to catch myself from getting angry and simply breathe, knowing that even though it may take an extra 30-45 minutes to reach my destination, I'll get there safely and won't intentionally put others in danger. Pam Sapyta Mike Bartman writes: > At 05:03 AM 9/12/03 -0700, Nick Thompson wrote: >>Wouldn't that make for an interesting story... >>"Woman dies of coronary due to other polite motorists >>in front of her..." > > That combined with the really rude ones who refuse to merge when they > should, and instead stay in a lane that is going away until the last > possible second so that they can drive past all the polite motorists who > did merge when they should have, and in so doing create the backup that > they are trying to avoid by shoving in and making those behind them hit the > brakes... > > I can easily understand why that woman was upset at the situation...though > I do think she overreacted a fair bit from the description. "Road rage" is > caused by assholes, but for some reason we don't go after *them*, but > rather their victims. Why is that? > >>I don't know why it is that >>people in this area just can't drive. This area >>contains some of the poorest drivers I've ever seen. > > I'm with you there! In Boston they are nuts, but fairly competent. In > California they are fast, but fairly competent. In Minneapolis they drive > too fast on snow-covered roads, but they are fairly competent. Here they > are nuts, fast and drive like they've been pithed on snow-covered > roads...and they are incompetent too! > >>I especially hate when you try to use the passing lane >>to pass someone and some asshole is going 55mph and >>will not move over no matter what. But, then again, >>I'm understanding that it is leagal to pass on the >>right in MD (go figure!). > > That "don't pass on the right" thing is a leftover bit of folk wisdom from > the days of two lane roads with light traffic. While there are still some > slight reasons to prefer passing on the left, with 6 lane roads it's pretty > much a moot point and I've never heard of anyone getting pulled over for > being in the middle lane and going faster than cars in both the right and > left ones. The tradition persists in some places (like Pennsylvania), but > I don't know whether it's still in the law there or not. > > Before I'd get surprised that someone passed on the right I'd be amazed to > find out that they know that you aren't allowed to change more than one > lane at a time, that when making a right turn you should end up in the > right lane, that the double-yellow line should not intercept any part of > you or your vehicle if extended upwards, and that it's "right turn on red > *AFTER STOP*", not just "right turn on red" (i.e. you have to come to a > complete halt AND YIELD to oncomming traffic before you can make your right > if the light is red). Very few drivers in this area seem to be at all > familiar with any of these basic driving laws. > > BTW - on a two lane road, when someone is stopped to make a left turn, you > *are* allowed to use the shoulder of the road to pass them on the > right...but ONLY THEM! You are NOT allowed to pass them and the guy > stopped behind them, or the guy behind him, etc.. You can pass ONE > vehicle, no more. This is something that almost nobody in this area seems > to be familiar with...and I've seen some caved-in doors that seem to > indicate that at least a few of them may have learned the hard way why that > law was passed. > > -- Mike B. > > **************************************************************************** > * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * > * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * > * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * > *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* > * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * > **************************************************************************** > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 12 10:41:10 2003 Subject: Re: Idiots on 270 today From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 12 Sep 2003 10:37:00 -0400 On Fri, 2003-09-12 at 10:19, Mike Bartman wrote: > At 05:03 AM 9/12/03 -0700, Nick Thompson wrote: > >Wouldn't that make for an interesting story... > >"Woman dies of coronary due to other polite motorists > >in front of her..." > > That combined with the really rude ones who refuse to merge when they > should, and instead stay in a lane that is going away until the last > possible second so that they can drive past all the polite motorists who > did merge when they should have, and in so doing create the backup that > they are trying to avoid by shoving in and making those behind them hit the > brakes... > > I can easily understand why that woman was upset at the situation...though > I do think she overreacted a fair bit from the description. "Road rage" is > caused by assholes, but for some reason we don't go after *them*, but > rather their victims. Why is that? > Cool. An argument. Three lanes into two, right lane going away. Why not use the zipper merge? Then both right lanes are moving. Both lanes move smartly to the merge, each car letting just one in front of them. If, in your politeness, you let people in early or you merge early, you leave a longish empty lane for the "assholes" to drive up and merge up at the merge. You _know_ the assholes will fly in the right lane because it's _open_. You should not let people in early but be sure to let one in at the merge. If you let people in at the merge both lanes will move and people won't be tempted to merge early. This assumes relative politeness on both parts though. Personally I merge away from the merging lanes. For example, on HOV there are two onramps from 95 after the Pentagon exit. I make sure I'm in the left lane so that I can't get angry at the antics of the "temporary population" who don't know how to drive :-) > >I don't know why it is that > >people in this area just can't drive. This area > >contains some of the poorest drivers I've ever seen. > > I'm with you there! In Boston they are nuts, but fairly competent. In > California they are fast, but fairly competent. In Minneapolis they drive > too fast on snow-covered roads, but they are fairly competent. Here they > are nuts, fast and drive like they've been pithed on snow-covered > roads...and they are incompetent too! > The problem is that you have different styles from around the country competing. Boston Nuts, LA Nuts, Seattle Nuts, etc Nuts and each of them don't know how to react to each other. > >I especially hate when you try to use the passing lane > >to pass someone and some asshole is going 55mph and > >will not move over no matter what. But, then again, > >I'm understanding that it is leagal to pass on the > >right in MD (go figure!). > > That "don't pass on the right" thing is a leftover bit of folk wisdom from > the days of two lane roads with light traffic. While there are still some > slight reasons to prefer passing on the left, with 6 lane roads it's pretty > much a moot point and I've never heard of anyone getting pulled over for > being in the middle lane and going faster than cars in both the right and > left ones. The tradition persists in some places (like Pennsylvania), but > I don't know whether it's still in the law there or not. > It worked fine everywhere I drove while on vacation except here and Toronto/Buffalo. And in those places traffic was light to non-existant. > Before I'd get surprised that someone passed on the right I'd be amazed to > find out that they know that you aren't allowed to change more than one > lane at a time, that when making a right turn you should end up in the > right lane, that the double-yellow line should not intercept any part of > you or your vehicle if extended upwards, and that it's "right turn on red > *AFTER STOP*", not just "right turn on red" (i.e. you have to come to a > complete halt AND YIELD to oncomming traffic before you can make your right > if the light is red). Very few drivers in this area seem to be at all > familiar with any of these basic driving laws. > Last night someone from New York (see tags) made a left turn at the light from the middle lane down where I live. > BTW - on a two lane road, when someone is stopped to make a left turn, you > *are* allowed to use the shoulder of the road to pass them on the > right...but ONLY THEM! You are NOT allowed to pass them and the guy > stopped behind them, or the guy behind him, etc.. You can pass ONE > vehicle, no more. This is something that almost nobody in this area seems > to be familiar with...and I've seen some caved-in doors that seem to > indicate that at least a few of them may have learned the hard way why that > law was passed. > Most of the time there's not enough room for more than one to pass. Not always though. > -- Mike B. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 12 10:42:12 2003 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'DCCycles'" Subject: Tire prices Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 10:45:46 -0400 Ordered new shoes and here're: 1: results of my research And 2. Warning (Including BBB report) from another list re MOTORCYCLE PLANET YMMV. Ceptor tires: front 120/80-16 rear: 130/80-18 Looks like only Bridgestone BT 45s and Avon Venoms have the 130/80-18 CHAPARRAL: http://www.chaparral_racing.com 1-800-841-2960 Nada on web page but Oct Motorcycling listed: $70.97 + $82.97 +$18 shipping = $171.94 http://casporttouring.com/ . 1_888_799_5445 $175.96 $9 shipping for one tire and free shipping for 2. $175.96 BT_45 130/80V_18 Rear $94.98 BT_45 120/80V_16 Front $80.98 No Azaro-Venom DISCOUNT MOTORCYCLE: http://www.discountmotorcycletire.com 1-800-654-0565 Arvada, CO 80002 UPS: $152.00 plus $14 shipping = $180 BT45 FRONT 120/80V16 $70.00 14 lb BT45 REAR 130/80V18 $82.00 14 lb BT45 REAR 130/70H18 $82.00 Super Venom Front AM20 120/80V16 $92.00 Rear AM18 130/80V18 $86 $178 +$28 shipping = $206 411 PARTS http://www.parts411.com 1-877-484-4860 Good web site C&A International Inc. 466 W. Arrow Hwy Suite F, San Dimas CA 91773 $150.84 +$30 shipping = $180.84 BT45F 120/80V16 $69.41 BT45R 130/80_18 $81.43 =$150.84 AVON AM18 130/80V18 REAR $92.18 No 120/80-16 AVON AM20 110/90V16 FRONT $82.12 $174.30 CYCLE DEPOT http://www.cycledepot.net 866-292-5333 Great web site, cartoons are disturbingly cute. $171.32 plus shipping = ?? 120/80V_16 FRONT $80.34 130/80V_18 REAR $90.98 AM2O Super Venom Front, 120/80v_16 $82.54 Rear, 130/80V_18 $94.51 $177.05 MOTORCYCLE PLANET * See Beaver's comment http://www.motorcycletireplanet.com 1-800-537-4493 330_781_9090 (West Ohio) $162.9 +$21 shipping = $183.90 $74.95 120/80V_16 Front $87.95 130/80V_18 Rear AM20/AM18 Super Venom $84.95 120/80V_16 BLK Front $96.95 130/80V_18 BLK Rear $181.90 SW MOTO http://www.swmototires.com 1_877_805_8473 2185 W. Amador St.5 Las Cruces, NM, 88005 No BT45 Avon AM20 120/80V_16 Front $86.95 Avon AM18 120/90V_18 Rear $98.95 $185.90 TIRE EXPRESS http://www.tireexpress.com Very easy to use web site No Bridgestone $10 per tire shipping AV_18_13/8V18 Price: $96.95 No Super venom front, Azaro rear $88 RON AYERS http://www.ronayers.com/tires/choosetire.cfm Nada No BT or AV ---------------------------------------------------------------- Beaver posted: I do NOT recommend MC Tire Planet, Helmet Planet, Motorcycle Specialties, 4C Sales Co. (all the same place) because they will : (facts from personal experience) a: hit your credit card when you *order*, not when they ship b: use a third party credit card processor (in Canada, no less) making a refund almost impossible in case of a problem (C/C companies won't do business with them directly) c: despite claims on the site, have *no* customer service, and don't answer the phone or e-mails d: don't stock anything, they order from their distributors when you place the order, then re-ship to you *after* they get it (read: hope your not in a hurry)(second hand info) check this out: > or this: > Ask me how I know........... Beaver in GA Carl in Bethesda From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 12 10:44:07 2003 Subject: Re: GSXR Part III From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 12 Sep 2003 10:39:57 -0400 On Fri, 2003-09-12 at 10:25, Mike Bartman wrote: > At 08:38 AM 9/12/03 -0400, Carl Schelin wrote: > >He hit the turn signal, started to move, saw me, paused, > >_and_went_anyway_. SOB. A couple of toots (need a bigger horn) and the > >universal gesture (which was returned) and I continued on to the parking > >spot. > > It's bad enough when they act like homicidal morons, but when they can't > even accept the well-earned gesture without being belligerent, it torques > me off in a big way. Boot-to-the-door is a likely response (based on past > experience :^), and if he wants to escalate it farther, that's fine. > I was a little annoyed but actually treated it in a way that I felt he know my opinion of his little transgression. In this case I wouldn't have stopped angry. I was very aware of what he was doing and actually expected him to keep going. So the gesture was more of a New York greeting I guess :-) "You're an asshole." "Yeah I know it, you're one too for being annoyed." :-) > -- Mike B. > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 12 10:44:08 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 10:43:36 -0400 From: Skip To: Mike Bartman CC: Nick Thompson , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Idiots on 270 today Mike Bartman wrote: > > At 05:03 AM 9/12/03 -0700, Nick Thompson wrote: > >Wouldn't that make for an interesting story... > >"Woman dies of coronary due to other polite motorists > >in front of her..." [snip] > I can easily understand why that woman was upset at the situation...though > I do think she overreacted a fair bit from the description. "Road rage" is > caused by assholes, but for some reason we don't go after *them*, but > rather their victims. Why is that? they supposedly go after them under the 'agressive driving' theory. however, if someone commits an infraction against me, I am still responsible for my actions. > I'm with you there! In Boston they are nuts, but fairly competent.[snip] I was in Boston for business, and got a rental car. I also got the LDW (the only place I do that). I was on some highway, going 70 or 80 in the right lane, being passed like I was going backwards. a guy come on in the merge lane, and instead of getting into the 3 carlenght space behind me, decides that he needs to get in front of me. however, there isn't enough merge lane for him to get beyond my passenger door. he feints like he's going to sideswipe me. I continue driving. he's now in the breakdown lane, running over shredded tires and shed exhaust parts, and continuing to feint at the side swipe. he got about 2 inches from my passenger side, but wouldn't (couldn't) get up the speed to get in front of me. I went ahead and hit him. he got behind me, as I had out crazied him. the rental company didn't say a word when I brought the car back. :~) > That "don't pass on the right" thing is a leftover bit of folk wisdom from > the days of two lane roads with light traffic. While there are still some > slight reasons to prefer passing on the left, with 6 lane roads it's pretty > much a moot point and I've never heard of anyone getting pulled over for > being in the middle lane and going faster than cars in both the right and > left ones. The tradition persists in some places (like Pennsylvania), but > I don't know whether it's still in the law there or not. it is still a law, and they are supposedly enforcing it, or some corrolary of it where you are not allowed to use the left lane as a travel lane. pass and get back over. I know that in Montana that is also pretty well enforced. --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 12 10:48:53 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 10:34:49 -0400 To: Erick Singley , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Idiots on 270 today At 09:19 AM 9/12/03 -0400, Erick Singley wrote: >I thought, 'Hey! I can stand on my pegs and see over the cars!' As I >did so, the bike starts to wobble and I start to put my foot down to >steady myself. My subconscious yells at me, "Bad! No biscuit! Ease on >the throttle to get stability back - you need to be going 15 mpg to >pull that, didn't you pay attention in MSF class?" So I did, evened >out easily, and I didn't break my leg after all :) Ummm...I'm confused here. Maybe it's because I haven't taken the MSF class (yet), but why do you need to be going 15 mph (I presume that was a typo... ;^) to put your foot down? I'd rather be stopped before I do that. What am I missing in this picture? -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 12 10:48:53 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 10:48:47 -0400 To: dan , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Idiots on 270 today At 10:31 AM 9/12/03 -0400, dan wrote: >On Fri, 12 Sep 2003, Dave Yates wrote: > >> >Nick Thompson wrote: >> > >> >> This area contains some of the poorest drivers I've ever >> >>seen. >> >> I especially hate when you try to use the passing lane >> >> to pass someone and some asshole is going 55mph and >> >> will not move over no matter what. But, then again, >> >> I'm understanding that it is leagal to pass on the >> >> right in MD (go figure!). >> >> [Dave] Yes, that is true. The rub is, there isn't enough >> roadway in rush hours ( plural ) to use the left lane only >> for passing. And that's everywhere around here, not just the >> interstates. To Hell with Social Security! MORE PAVEMENT ! > >Yeah, I think we all realize that the left lane isn't ONLY for passing, >but the fucking morons that go 55 in it while traffic goes 70+ in the >other X number of lanes are the problem. Actually, from the legal perspective, the ones that are going 70+ are the problem...they are the ones breaking the law after all. The ones going 55 are going at the maximum permitted speed limit (unless you mean away from urban areas?), so unless you have lights and a siren going, you shouldn't be *able* to pass them, in any lane. Nobody has a RIGHT to break the law...pretty much by definition...and nobody else has a responsibility to aid them in doing so. On the contrary. That said, I don't think that it is unsafe for some drivers to go faster than the posted limits in some vehicles at some times. Brakes, suspensions and other things are much better than they were when the current speed limit rules were made up. Unfortunately, the drivers are worse. It is unsafe for other drivers to be going even as fast as the posted limit, so if we raised the limits things would go completely insane and we'd start losing MORE people *every* year on the highways than we lost in the entire Vietnam war, rather than a few thousand less. What we really need is something like racing stripes...if you pass an advanced driving test and have a vehicle capable of handling it, you get a higher speed limit than the folks with only a dim idea of what traction is or how to figure braking distance for various conditions. If you are allowed the extra speed, you get a card to stick in the back window to let police know before they pull you over, or maybe something like SpeedPass that shows up in the radar gun window? We have lower speed limits for trucks, so why not higher ones for sports cars with highly trained drivers? Or do people really think that Bobby Unser can't go over 55 in traffic without wrecking? -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 12 10:58:41 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 10:58:39 -0400 To: pam@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Idiots on 270 today Cc: Nick Thompson , Wayne Edelen , dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 10:39 AM 9/12/03 -0400, pam@XXXXXX wrote: >I'm from Boston and this has got to be the first time anyone has categorized >us as 'competent'. Thank you, thank you. You're welcome! :^) There *are* some really weird rules up there that have to be learned though. For instance, NEVER stop at a yellow light! You will be rear-ended by the vehicle behind you, who would never expect that. Also, when making a left turn onto a road with oncoming traffic, you MUST NOT look at the oncoming traffic! If you do, you have to wait for it to go past. Instead, just pull out. So long as you haven't looked at the oncoming traffic, the drivers there will assume you are going to pull out, and will be slowing down or prepared to brake heavily. Those are sort of unofficial rules of the road. The strangest of the official ones up there is that traffic entering a "rotary" (as in "rotary grinder"...i.e. a traffic circle) has right of way over traffic already in the rotary. Only place in the USA that I know of where it works like that...and for good reason! ;^) There may be other oddities about the Boston area...I've only spent a few weeks up there, and none of it recently. >My question is, what does it really matter? I'm always looking for ways to >help improve the drive when I'm on the road. Oft times I've had to catch >myself from getting angry and simply breathe, knowing that even though it >may take an extra 30-45 minutes to reach my destination, I'll get there >safely and won't intentionally put others in danger. See, that's a woman's perspective. With guys it's different. We take many things as challenges, and we *have* to respond to a challenge. It's basic instinct for us. Back down and you *LOSE*. Women will never want you then, your genes will never make it into the next generation and you become extinct. We are the end result of millions of years of guys who didn't back down...and it shows. :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 12 11:10:02 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:15:17 -0400 (EDT) From: dan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Idiots on 270 today On Fri, 12 Sep 2003, Mike Bartman wrote: > >Yeah, I think we all realize that the left lane isn't ONLY for passing, > >but the fucking morons that go 55 in it while traffic goes 70+ in the > >other X number of lanes are the problem. > > Actually, from the legal perspective, the ones that are going 70+ are the > problem...they are the ones breaking the law after all. The ones going 55 > are going at the maximum permitted speed limit (unless you mean away from > urban areas?), so unless you have lights and a siren going, you shouldn't > be *able* to pass them, in any lane. Nobody has a RIGHT to break the > law...pretty much by definition...and nobody else has a responsibility to > aid them in doing so. On the contrary. > No one is saying they have a right to speed, I simply choose to go *SLIGHTLY* faster than the flow of traffic while on the bike. Read the VA motorcycle license manual, thats what it recommends. Someone going 55 in the left lane causes a very bad traffic and safety situation. If you want to reduce the speed of traffic, get a badge first. Then start writing people for going 1 over and watch the judge laugh at you. Just because traffic is moving faster than you like, it gives you no right to try to slow it down. Dan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 12 11:12:13 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:12:04 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Erick Singley Subject: Re: Idiots on 270 today >At 09:19 AM 9/12/03 -0400, Erick Singley wrote: > >>I thought, 'Hey! I can stand on my pegs and see over the cars!' As I >>did so, the bike starts to wobble and I start to put my foot down to >>steady myself. My subconscious yells at me, "Bad! No biscuit! Ease on >>the throttle to get stability back - you need to be going 15 mpg to >>pull that, didn't you pay attention in MSF class?" So I did, evened >>out easily, and I didn't break my leg after all :) > >Ummm...I'm confused here. Maybe it's because I haven't taken the MSF class >(yet), but why do you need to be going 15 mph (I presume that was a typo... >;^) to put your foot down? I'd rather be stopped before I do that. What >am I missing in this picture? 15 mpg was the number given to us for gyroscopic stability - I meant I should have waited until going a bit faster before trying to stand up on the pegs and destabilizing myself . Trying to hold up 700 lbs of flesh and metal from tipping while in motion by putting one foot down was an additional bad idea (when it wasn't the proper way of doing it anyway) Erick "That which does not kill us.." and all that... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 12 11:16:05 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:14:49 -0400 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Idiots on 270 today At 10:37 AM 9/12/03 -0400, Carl Schelin wrote: >On Fri, 2003-09-12 at 10:19, Mike Bartman wrote: >> At 05:03 AM 9/12/03 -0700, Nick Thompson wrote: >> >Wouldn't that make for an interesting story... >> >"Woman dies of coronary due to other polite motorists >> >in front of her..." >> >> That combined with the really rude ones who refuse to merge when they >> should, and instead stay in a lane that is going away until the last >> possible second so that they can drive past all the polite motorists who >> did merge when they should have, and in so doing create the backup that >> they are trying to avoid by shoving in and making those behind them hit the >> brakes... >> >> I can easily understand why that woman was upset at the situation...though >> I do think she overreacted a fair bit from the description. "Road rage" is >> caused by assholes, but for some reason we don't go after *them*, but >> rather their victims. Why is that? >> > >Cool. An argument. I'd prefer a discussion. You know the difference, I'm sure. >Three lanes into two, right lane going away. Why not use the zipper >merge? Then both right lanes are moving. Both lanes move smartly to the >merge, each car letting just one in front of them. > >If, in your politeness, you let people in early or you merge early, you >leave a longish empty lane for the "assholes" to drive up and merge up >at the merge. > >You _know_ the assholes will fly in the right lane because it's _open_. > >You should not let people in early but be sure to let one in at the >merge. If you let people in at the merge both lanes will move and people >won't be tempted to merge early. > >This assumes relative politeness on both parts though. Yes, and since you've already postulated the existence of assholes (something I'm NOT going to argue with you! :^), this plan doesn't work very well. That's why you have to use *all* of my plan (and probably the plan the upset lady was trying for, but having thwarted by the "polite" people ahead of her), not just the "be polite and merge early" part. You have to have that, but you also have to have the "anyone who doesn't merge early DOESN'T GET IN AT ALL!" part. Once the assholes realize that using that empty stretch to get ahead of others will result in getting stuck with no road and no space to force your way in, and they have to sit there until traffic density drops, they will realize that it was a false economy to use that open stretch, rather than being polite and zipper-merging early on like the polite folks did who are now well down the road ahead due to their cooperative natures. This plan is ruined by anyone "polite" enough to assist the assholes by letting them cut in line ahead of all those who were polite enough to merge early and have now been screwed by having a line of assholes forcing their way in ahead of them, and thus holding them up even more than necessary. By rewarding the assholes for their rude behavior, these "polite" (i.e. "stupid") people actually make things worse. We need to punish rude behavior, not reward it. Unless we want more rude people around of course. >Personally I merge away from the merging lanes. For example, on HOV >there are two onramps from 95 after the Pentagon exit. I make sure I'm >in the left lane so that I can't get angry at the antics of the >"temporary population" who don't know how to drive :-) My plan too...when possible. The farther you get from the merge, the faster you move anyway. Even a zipper merge is slower than through traffic. Yet another reason to "merge early". :^) >> BTW - on a two lane road, when someone is stopped to make a left turn, you >> *are* allowed to use the shoulder of the road to pass them on the >> right...but ONLY THEM! You are NOT allowed to pass them and the guy >> stopped behind them, or the guy behind him, etc.. You can pass ONE >> vehicle, no more. This is something that almost nobody in this area seems >> to be familiar with...and I've seen some caved-in doors that seem to >> indicate that at least a few of them may have learned the hard way why that >> law was passed. > >Most of the time there's not enough room for more than one to pass. Not >always though. Huh? Maybe I wasn't clear... Cars A, B, and C are stopped on a two lane road (one lane each way). Car A and car B are signalling for a left turn. Car C is just patient, but going straight. Car D comes up behind them. Car D must wait for car's A and B to make their turns and Car C to go before proceeding. Car D may NOT use the shoulder to pass the stopped cars. The reason is that as car D is doing so, car C might decide to pass too...boom. In the prior situation if Car B decided to go straight he *could* use the shoulder to pass car A. Then car C could do the same. Then car D could do it too. That's what the law says anyway. I've seen people pass as many as 8 stopped cars before. Talking with other drivers, I'm pretty sure they didn't even know that what they were doing was illegal, or unsafe, and if they got pulled for it would be very surprised. Given the appalling state of law enforcement on the highways I'd be pretty surprised too. About all they ever ticket for anymore is speeding and wrecks. When I first learned to drive you were as likely to get a ticket for a light out as for speeding or doing a "rolling stop". Perhaps more likely. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 12 11:17:44 2003 Subject: Cannonball's Run 9/12 /1918 Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:17:35 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: 1918 Cannonball's Run "Cannonball" Baker, born Erwin G. Baker, discovered his special talent soon after buying his first motorcycle -- he was capable of exceptional stamina and endurance on the road. His lean frame sat naturally atop his Indian V-twin, and his toughened stance and leather riding trousers seemed to announce to the world that he was ready to outride all challengers. Made a celebrity by his 3,379-mile cross-country motorcycle trek, "Cannonball" became a symbol of the American motorcycle rider, synonymous with wild cross-country journeys. His fame led to other tours and promotional trips, and he completed his most extensive tour on this day - a 17,000 mile, seventy-seven-day trip to all forty-eight state capitals - yet another testament to his legendary endurance. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 12 11:19:11 2003 From: pam@XXXXXX To: Mike Bartman Cc: Nick Thompson , Wayne Edelen , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Idiots on 270 today Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:19:08 -0400 Mike Bartman writes: > > > Those are sort of unofficial rules of the road. The strangest of the > official ones up there is that traffic entering a "rotary" (as in "rotary > grinder"...i.e. a traffic circle) has right of way over traffic already in > the rotary. Only place in the USA that I know of where it works like > that...and for good reason! ;^) > Actually, this is incorrect. The traffic in the rotary has the right of way. I learned that, to my advantage, the hard way. Imagine this: me driving a 1981 Subaru Brat being berated by a Jag driver. Only to have the cop (gotta love Officer Kennedy) put said driver in her place. I guess I looked a lot more proletariat than she did. Lesson learned: an Ivy League education doesn't always manifest itself in a wardrobe. > There may be other oddities about the Boston area...I've only spent a few > weeks up there, and none of it recently. > >>My question is, what does it really matter? I'm always looking for ways to >>help improve the drive when I'm on the road. Oft times I've had to catch >>myself from getting angry and simply breathe, knowing that even though it >>may take an extra 30-45 minutes to reach my destination, I'll get there >>safely and won't intentionally put others in danger. > > See, that's a woman's perspective. With guys it's different. We take many > things as challenges, and we *have* to respond to a challenge. It's basic > instinct for us. Back down and you *LOSE*. Women will never want you > then, your genes will never make it into the next generation and you become > extinct. We are the end result of millions of years of guys who didn't > back down...and it shows. :^) > You and my brother. He is the only person I've ever known to hit a deer while on his bike and walk away with only a broken hand. He still has the bike, which was totaled. The deer, of course, got up and ran away. Pam From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 12 11:25:02 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:25:10 -0400 To: Erick Singley , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Idiots on 270 today At 11:12 AM 9/12/03 -0400, Erick Singley wrote: >>At 09:19 AM 9/12/03 -0400, Erick Singley wrote: >>Ummm...I'm confused here. Maybe it's because I haven't taken the MSF class >>(yet), but why do you need to be going 15 mph (I presume that was a typo... >>;^) to put your foot down? I'd rather be stopped before I do that. What >>am I missing in this picture? > >15 mpg was the number given to us for gyroscopic stability - I meant >I should have waited until going a bit faster before trying to stand >up on the pegs and destabilizing myself . AH! Ok, that makes more sense. Thanks. (but how many RPMs do you need to be turning, or how slow do you need to be going, before you get a bike down to 15mpg? :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 12 11:25:05 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:18:40 -0400 To: Skip From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Idiots on 270 today Cc: Nick Thompson , dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 10:43 AM 9/12/03 -0400, Skip wrote: >where you are not allowed to use the left lane as a travel lane. pass and get >back over. I know that in Montana that is also pretty well enforced. My dad lives in Montana, and from what I saw when I visited him, it's the normal practice there. Of course, in most of Montana you can drive in whatever lane you like, even the left one (of a two-lane road), without a problem. You see other cars every once in a while, but usually from several miles away. :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 12 11:36:08 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:35:37 -0400 From: Skip To: "Verde, Robert" CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Cannonball's Run 9/12 /1918 "Verde, Robert" wrote: > 1918 Cannonball's Run > > His fame led to other tours and promotional trips, and he completed his most extensive > tour on this day - a 17,000 mile, seventy-seven-day trip to all forty-eight state > capitals - yet another testament to his legendary endurance. that's only 220 miles per day. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 12 11:39:01 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:39:09 -0400 To: Skip , "Verde, Robert" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Cannonball's Run 9/12 /1918 Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 11:35 AM 9/12/03 -0400, Skip wrote: >"Verde, Robert" wrote: > >> 1918 Cannonball's Run >> >> His fame led to other tours and promotional trips, and he completed his most extensive > tour on this day - a 17,000 mile, seventy-seven-day trip to all forty-eight state > capitals - yet another testament to his legendary endurance. > >that's only 220 miles per day. Don't say "only" until you go look at a bike from 1918...and remember that most of the roads of the time were dirt and there were no interstates at all. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 12 11:39:57 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: "'Skip'" , "Verde, Robert" Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Cannonball's Run 9/12 /1918 Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:42:02 -0400 Yea, on a ~1918 Indian. I was wondering how the thing stayed together. Mike 96 VFR 88 Hawk 76 CB400F > -----Original Message----- > From: Skip [SMTP:skip@XXXXXX] > Sent: Friday, September 12, 2003 11:36 AM > To: Verde, Robert > Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Cannonball's Run 9/12 /1918 > > "Verde, Robert" wrote: > > > 1918 Cannonball's Run > > > > His fame led to other tours and promotional trips, and he completed his > most extensive > tour on this day - a 17,000 mile, seventy-seven-day trip > to all forty-eight state > capitals - yet another testament to his > legendary endurance. > > that's only 220 miles per day. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 12 11:44:47 2003 Reply-To: wayne@XXXXXX From: "wayne@XXXXXX" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Idiots on 270 today Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:44:39 -0400 Who are you to 'punish' those drivers? This is the same mentality that causes problems with lane splitting motorcyclists. And as far as 'letting' people in, unless traffic is at a complete stop, I am more than 1 car length behind the person in front of me so people can come and go in front of me as they please :-) I don't like rock chips/dirt on the front of my cars, so I don't tailgate :-) Also, as a general rule, my cars have braking power superior to that of the people behind me and I'd rather not be forced to use all of my brakes and have some idiot clobber me from behind ;-) When I'm in my lumbering, gas guzzling SUV, I need all the braking room I can get, so I don't tailgate, just for different reasons. I'm sorry, but if someone zips up the open lane on a merge and gets 10 or 20 or 30 cars ahead of the 'pack' that is stopped, he's not getting to his destination any faster. It's just the perception by those stopped that the person is 'cheating'. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ Original Message: ----------------- From: Mike Bartman omni@XXXXXX This plan is ruined by anyone "polite" enough to assist the assholes by letting them cut in line ahead of all those who were polite enough to merge early and have now been screwed by having a line of assholes forcing their way in ahead of them, and thus holding them up even more than necessary. By rewarding the assholes for their rude behavior, these "polite" (i.e. "stupid") people actually make things worse. We need to punish rude behavior, not reward it. Unless we want more rude people around of course. -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 12 11:51:15 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:50:43 -0400 From: Skip To: Mike Bartman CC: "Verde, Robert" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Cannonball's Run 9/12 /1918 Mike Bartman wrote: > > At 11:35 AM 9/12/03 -0400, Skip wrote: > >"Verde, Robert" wrote: > > > >> 1918 Cannonball's Run > >> > >> His fame led to other tours and promotional trips, and he completed his > most extensive > tour on this day - a 17,000 mile, seventy-seven-day trip > to all forty-eight state > capitals - yet another testament to his > legendary endurance. > > > >that's only 220 miles per day. > > Don't say "only" until you go look at a bike from 1918...and remember that > most of the roads of the time were dirt and there were no interstates at all. -touch)Bé From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 12 11:55:05 2003 X-EM-APIVersion: 2, 0, 1, 0 From: "Kirk Roy" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Idiots on 270 today Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:55:03 -0400 Erick Singley wrote: > >I know we see idiots all the time, but these 3 really rose to the top > >today during my commute home. I was non-HOV in one of my cages... > > > > Luckily, none of those bike idiots match me :) Phew, same here! I'm sure there are sufficient opportunities over the 300 miles a week I spend on 270 to call me an idiot. :) At least I wear gear. Kirk From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 12 12:19:30 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 12:19:20 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Erick Singley Subject: Re: Idiots on 270 today >At 11:12 AM 9/12/03 -0400, Erick Singley wrote: >>>At 09:19 AM 9/12/03 -0400, Erick Singley wrote: > >>>Ummm...I'm confused here. Maybe it's because I haven't taken the MSF class >>>(yet), but why do you need to be going 15 mph (I presume that was a typo... >>>;^) to put your foot down? I'd rather be stopped before I do that. What >>>am I missing in this picture? >> >>15 mpg was the number given to us for gyroscopic stability - I meant >>I should have waited until going a bit faster before trying to stand >>up on the pegs and destabilizing myself . > >AH! Ok, that makes more sense. Thanks. (but how many RPMs do you need to >be turning, or how slow do you need to be going, before you get a bike down >to 15mpg? :^) > >-- Mike B. (aside - Oooh. neat - a scientific article on road ridging and motorcycles - http://www.ee.ic.ac.uk/CAP/Reports/2001/roadforcing.pdf (notably it says that light riders suffer more oscillation than heavier ones) I'm sure they gave us the figure as a roundabout - I'll bet it's different for every model, but was fairly accurate for my bike. Since I don't know a real answer, I went looking around... A complicated mathematical study I found at http://www.ee.ic.ac.uk/CAP/Reports/2001/sl2001.pdf but one that was a little more useful was http://www.mecc.unipd.it/~cos/DINAMOTO/vibrations/vibmode.html This page (http://www.msgroup.org/TIP066.html ) says "A spinning rear wheel provides gyroscopic stability to over 80% of your motorcycle (including yourself) because it is directly connected via its axle/swing-arm to the frame of the motorcycle. The front-end is only indirectly influenced by the spinning rear wheel. " so I suppose speed: RPM of tire, diameter and weight are all interrelated to 'stability' and they just threw an average number at us newbies to calm us down :) Neat. Erick From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 12 12:31:11 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Mike Bartman , Erick Singley , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Idiots on 270 today Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 12:33:25 -0500 You means you need to be going 15mph to be standing on your pegs. Rob -- Rob Sharp SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer ---------- Original Message ----------- From: Mike Bartman To: Erick Singley , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Sent: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 10:34:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Idiots on 270 today > At 09:19 AM 9/12/03 -0400, Erick Singley wrote: > > >I thought, 'Hey! I can stand on my pegs and see over the cars!' As I > >did so, the bike starts to wobble and I start to put my foot down to > >steady myself. My subconscious yells at me, "Bad! No biscuit! Ease on > >the throttle to get stability back - you need to be going 15 mpg to > >pull that, didn't you pay attention in MSF class?" So I did, evened > >out easily, and I didn't break my leg after all :) > > Ummm...I'm confused here. Maybe it's because I haven't taken the > MSF class > (yet), but why do you need to be going 15 mph (I presume that was a typo... > ;^) to put your foot down? I'd rather be stopped before I do that. > What am I missing in this picture? > > -- Mike B. > > **************************************************************************** > * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation > Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled > Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options > Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *------------------------------ > --------------------------------------------* * "We do it > all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** ------- End of Original Message ------- From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 12 12:46:47 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 12:46:41 -0400 (EDT) From: jdonovan@XXXXXX To: Mike Bartman cc: "Steven C. Di Pietro" , DCCycles Subject: Re: Now this would be nice...... On Thu, 11 Sep 2003, Mike Bartman wrote: > > An alternative might be the helmet I tried on the other day. It's from > Germany, and has a built-in sun visor that lowers or raises with a tab on > the left side. Flip it down and you have an inch and a half of wrap-around > smoked plastic over your eyes, inside the clear visor. Flip it up and it > disappears into the upper part of the helmet. Cool, and no batteries! > > The helmet also had lots of vents and a flip-up chin bar, as well as > built-in spoiler at the back (I presume the same sort of thing that "Rumble > Strips" are for). About $450. Ah you found the Schubreth Concept. Its a nice lid. I've had one for about 18 months, and 14,000 miles and like it a lot. Its by no means perfect, there are a few minor gripes I have. However, pluses like the built in sun visor, the flip up, the quick release chin strip make up for the minuses. I did notice recently the the soft padding (not the impact foam) has seem to shrunk down to the point that I'm considering a size smaller might be right. I do have more miles/hours in this one helmet than all my previous ones combined, so this may be a 'normal' thing for a lid that gets a lot of wear. -JD From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 12 12:56:35 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Mike Bartman , Erick Singley , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Idiots on 270 today Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 12:58:50 -0500 Personally I like doing the superman when going over 15 mph. Standing on the pegs is only for the speed bumps in my complex. Speed bumps on 270 might be interesting. That would be the ultimate prank. Install speed bumps at like 4AM in the morning on I270 south. Glad I travel/work at home for my job. Rob -- Rob Sharp SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer ---------- Original Message ----------- From: Mike Bartman To: Erick Singley , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Sent: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:25:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Idiots on 270 today > At 11:12 AM 9/12/03 -0400, Erick Singley wrote: > >>At 09:19 AM 9/12/03 -0400, Erick Singley wrote: > > >>Ummm...I'm confused here. Maybe it's because I haven't taken the MSF class > >>(yet), but why do you need to be going 15 mph (I presume that was a typo... > >>;^) to put your foot down? I'd rather be stopped before I do that. What > >>am I missing in this picture? > > > >15 mpg was the number given to us for gyroscopic stability - I meant > >I should have waited until going a bit faster before trying to stand > >up on the pegs and destabilizing myself . > > AH! Ok, that makes more sense. Thanks. (but how many RPMs do you > need to be turning, or how slow do you need to be going, before you > get a bike down to 15mpg? :^) > > -- Mike B. > > **************************************************************************** > * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation > Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled > Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options > Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *------------------------------ > --------------------------------------------* * "We do it > all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** ------- End of Original Message ------- From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 12 14:28:48 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:28:29 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: skip@XXXXXX, Robert.Verde@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Cannonball's Run 9/12 /1918 X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 Yes. But, when you think that he did it on a motorcycle in the early 1900's, that's pretty impressive. My uncle's Grandfather did a cross-country trip from PA to OR on an Indian motorcycle and it took him 6 weeks. Mainly because there were not many paved roads back then and the bike broke down a lot. I have the journal typed up, along with pics, if anyone is interested. How do we get stuff downloaded onto the DC Cycles website? Anyone want to put it up somewhere? I can send it to someone on cd to post. Scooter In a message dated 9/12/2003 11:35:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time, skip@XXXXXX writes: > > > "Verde, Robert" wrote: > > > 1918 Cannonball's Run > > > > His fame led to other tours and promotional trips, and he completed his most extensive > tour on this day - a 17,000 mile, seventy-seven-day trip to all forty-eight state > > capitals - yet another testament to his legendary endurance. > > that's only 220 miles per day. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 12 15:08:13 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:03:24 -0400 To: "Rob Sharp" , Erick Singley , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Idiots on 270 today At 12:33 PM 9/12/03 -0500, Rob Sharp wrote: >You means you need to be going 15mph to be standing on your pegs. Yeah, I got it when he clarified...and it's "15 mpg", not "15 mph"... :^) The figure is going to depend on a lot of things. I used to stand on the pegs of my Yamaha XT-550 at much lower speeds, with no problems at all. It had a fairly high CG to start with, I weigh a ton, and the counterbalance in the single-cylinder motor was heavy enough to give noticeable stability boosts if you kept RPMs up a bit. A street bike is likely to have different characteristics. I'd bet that the MSF figure is an average number for average riders on typical street bikes, adjusted for a margin of safety...and mostly intended to give you a ballpark estimate to start from if you want to try it. I used to stand on the pedals of my 10-speed at speeds approaching zero, and never had problems... :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 12 15:08:13 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:56:27 -0400 To: wayne@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Idiots on 270 today At 11:44 AM 9/12/03 -0400, wayne@XXXXXX wrote: >Who are you to 'punish' those drivers? I'm the guy they are hurting by their actions. I'm one of the members of the society that they live in, but have decided not to be a part of. They are lucky I don't just ram their asses, drag them out of their cars and beat them to death against the roadway as a proven enemy of civilization and thus give a small shove up the evolutionary ladder to all mankind. Luckily for them, I tend to obey the laws. >This is the same mentality that >causes problems with lane splitting motorcyclists. No, but it may be related for some people. I don't care that someone is "getting ahead of me"...I am upset that in benefiting themselves they are harming everyone else by making a bad situation worse. They are rude, selfish SOBs that don't deserve to live and who we'd all be better off without. Lane splitters, if they aren't stupid about it, may actually benefit everyone by eliminating one vehicle from the mess, without slowing any others down. Of course, if they are stupid enough about it, they are just a road accident that *really* screws up traffic. >Also, as a >general rule, my cars have braking power superior to that of the people >behind me and I'd rather not be forced to use all of my brakes and have >some idiot clobber me from behind ;-) One more reason not to leave enough room for a bastard to squeeze in suddenly and take most of it...leaving you 2' off his rear bumper just as the line of traffic stops suddenly... >I'm sorry, but if someone zips up the open lane on a merge and gets 10 or >20 or 30 cars ahead of the 'pack' that is stopped, he's not getting to his >destination any faster. It's just the perception by those stopped that the >person is 'cheating'. And the FACT that when they cut in, the guy they cut off is going to have to hit the brakes, and that stops all the trafic behind him...again. That sort of thing slows traffic much more than is necessary to accommodate the merging traffic, and is a large part of why merges are always so ugly...unlike cops, there's always an asshole around. If people merge earlier, it can be done with more control, less braking and less disruption to traffic flow. The asshole ends up a few cars farther back, but everyone gets where they are going sooner. It's the same "me first, screw you!" attitude that causes gridlock at red lights...where jerks and morons pull into the intersection when they have no way to leave it...which is, BTW, illegal, but almost never enforced (we don't need more laws, just more law enforcement). They get stuck in the middle of the intersection, preventing cross-traffic from moving at all...just so they can get where they are going a minute or two sooner (if that). The really sad part is that they might not be in heavy traffic if it wasn't for other assholes doing the same thing at the next intersection... -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 12 15:08:13 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:07:54 -0400 To: "Rob Sharp" , Erick Singley , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Idiots on 270 today At 12:58 PM 9/12/03 -0500, Rob Sharp wrote: >Speed bumps on 270 might be interesting. That would be the ultimate prank. >Install speed bumps at like 4AM in the morning on I270 south. Glad I >travel/work at home for my job. They probably wouldn't be noticed. I've hit patches on interstates that are as tall and abrupt as many speedbumps in parking lots, and you hardly notice them in a car...whump-whump, and that's it. After learning that I started speeding up for them in parking lots (if there wasn't anybody around to scare or hit of course :) and I found that if you were doing at least 3-4 times the speed they were trying to keep you down to (usually 5-10 mph), you barely noticed them...the suspension takes it all, and the body/passengers don't feel it. Go slower and the car has time to lurch more. Ain't momentum/inertia grand? :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 12 15:26:46 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:26:41 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Michael Jordan Reply-To: Michael Jordan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Idiots on 270 today >>>Ummm...I'm confused here. Maybe it's because I haven't taken the MSF class >>>(yet), but why do you need to be going 15 mph (I presume that was a typo... >>>;^) to put your foot down? I'd rather be stopped before I do that. What >>>am I missing in this picture? This varies for different bike/rider combinations - check out your Observed Trials types standing on the pegs for a half hour or so at zero mph. I can stand up comfortably on my VStrom at walking speed. MSF is very good at what they do - but they aim their information at rank beginners and want to establish a safe environment for an untrained person (Lowest Common Denominator). As one gains experience, one can push their personal envelope. I don't agree with everything that the MSF teaches, but I cheerfully sent my wife 'n kids there for initial training. Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 12 15:44:14 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:59:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Idiots on 270 today On Fri, 12 Sep 2003, Mike Bartman wrote: > At 11:44 AM 9/12/03 -0400, wayne@XXXXXX wrote: > >Who are you to 'punish' those drivers? > > I'm the guy they are hurting by their actions. I'm one of the members of > the society that they live in, but have decided not to be a part of. They > are lucky I don't just ram their asses, drag them out of their cars and > beat them to death against the roadway as a proven enemy of civilization > and thus give a small shove up the evolutionary ladder to all mankind. Or in the process, you would be removed from that same dirty gene pool. Don't bring a knife to a gunfight, as they say. > One more reason not to leave enough room for a bastard to squeeze in > suddenly and take most of it...leaving you 2' off his rear bumper just as > the line of traffic stops suddenly... No, one more reason to pay more attention in traffic. It's extremely easy to tell when someone is going to be jumping in front of you and if traffic is stopping. Plan your acceleration/braking accordingly. If you weren't trying to prevent Johnny Lane-Jumper from getting in front of you, you would have seen the Escalade braking in front of you ;-) Seriously, I have several cars that are about a gnat's ass off the pavement. I have ZERO visibility over the Kia in front of me and I have no trouble knowing what is going on in front, side and behind me. > And the FACT that when they cut in, the guy they cut off is going to have > to hit the brakes, and that stops all the trafic behind him...again. That > sort of thing slows traffic much more than is necessary to accommodate the > merging traffic, and is a large part of why merges are always so > ugly...unlike cops, there's always an asshole around. Wrong. The reason traffic stops again is because everyone is tailgating everyone else. If someone cuts in front of you in 25mph traffic and you have to slam on your brakes, you weren't paying attention. Period. If people left adequate following distances, traffic would move more smoothly because people in cars behind them wouldn't panic due to the brake lights/dive and react by slamming on their brakes. > If people merge earlier, it can be done with more control, less braking and > less disruption to traffic flow. The asshole ends up a few cars farther > back, but everyone gets where they are going sooner. It's the same "me > first, screw you!" attitude that causes gridlock at red lights...where > jerks and morons pull into the intersection when they have no way to leave > it...which is, BTW, illegal, but almost never enforced (we don't need more > laws, just more law enforcement). They get stuck in the middle of the > intersection, preventing cross-traffic from moving at all...just so they > can get where they are going a minute or two sooner (if that). I agree. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 12 15:56:01 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:55:48 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: DC Cycles website X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 Mr. Weaver, Ms. Roach (formerly know as Granato :-)), how do I go about getting something posted on the DC Cycles website? I've got a Word document and photos, that go with the document, that I'd like to put up. The document can be converted to whatever works and the pics are .jpgs. Let me know and I can either e-mail them or send a cd. Scooter From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 12 15:59:21 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:53:55 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Idiots in general WAS ...on 270 today To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >>Who are you to 'punish' those drivers? > >I'm the guy they are hurting by their actions. I'm one of >the members of the society that they live in, but have >decided not to be a part of. They are lucky I don't just >ram their asses, drag them out of their cars and >beat them to death against the roadway as a proven enemy of >civilization and thus give a small shove up the evolutionary >ladder to all mankind. [Dave] Funny you should mention that... How timely. This very morning, my group's secretary nearly got rammed by me as follows. I entered our parking lot ahead of her, and turned into our parking garage. There are 2 gated, green lighted lanes to swipe security passes at, I turned and headed for the left one, she came in behind me, and floored it to get to the right one. She comes to a screeching halt, swipes card, floors it again and tries to go wide around me, as we both execute a left turn down into the garage. There isn't enough room to accomodate this move, as it's one lane each way, and parking spaces on each side of the lane. The garage is underground, so there's a concrete wall there for her to get intimate with. Anyway, I'm already through the gate when she tries this, so, she gets close with, but not intimate with the concrete wall. I didn't race her, nor did I drive like Miss Daisy, in fact, I drove at my normal every day pace. Interestingly enough, ( both of us in Exploders ) it's not even her truck - it's her passenger's truck - they carpool. Haven't heard a peep from her loud mouthed, obnoxious, maniac, non-driving (not just for this little episode), no turn-signal usin', last-minute-merger, impolite self. >Luckily for them, I tend to obey the laws. [Dave] Dude- Thank G*d for zoloft. > >>This is the same mentality that >>causes problems with lane splitting motorcyclists. > >No, but it may be related for some people. I don't care >that someone is "getting ahead of me"...I am upset that in >benefiting themselves they are harming everyone else by >making a bad situation worse. They are rude, >selfish SOBs that don't deserve to live and who we'd all be >better off without. > >Lane splitters, if they aren't stupid about it, may actually >benefit everyone by eliminating one vehicle from the mess, >without slowing any others down. [Dave] We already covered this a few weeks back. Lane splitters most assuredly do slow others down at the point of merge just as any other vehicle will. Once they splitter cust in, if there isn't sufficient following distance, the one who was just cut over on has to reduce speed. Even if executed seamlessly, the splitter is still putting themself in front of another driver at their expense. It may only be a second or two, here or there, and it is much less severe than a cage, but there is an effect. Wayne pointed out: >>Also, as a general rule, my cars have braking power >>superior to that of the people behind me ... >One more reason not to leave enough room for a bastard to >squeeze in suddenly and take most of it...leaving you 2' off >his rear bumper just as the line of traffic stops suddenly... [Dave] The whole "general rule" concept is the problem here. No one method of driving a vehicle around here will serve you generally. On one hand, I've found that it's less stressful when there's good following distance but the side effect is that INEVITABLY some assholes cut over and aren't able or willing to keep pace when they do. For the tighter & much slower traffic on Duke & Telegraph (rush hour, bumper to bumper) I've found that leaving less than a car length keeps the "element-of-surprise", sudden lane changers from being able to cut in without warning, while still leaving me sufficient time and space to stop. However, ANYBODY willing to put their turn signal on with enough room for me to slow gets a headlight flash & let in. > >>I'm sorry, but if someone zips up the open lane on a merge >>and gets 10 or 20 or 30 cars ahead of the 'pack' that is >>stopped, he's not getting to his destination any faster. > >And the FACT that when they cut in, the guy they cut off is >going to have to hit the brakes, and that stops all the >trafic behind him...again. That sort of thing slows traffic >much more than is necessary to accommodate the >merging traffic, and is a large part of why merges are >always so ugly...unlike cops, there's always an asshole >around. [Dave] If you really want to see this theory acted out, a good place to do it is going from Virginia, into Maryland across the WW bridge in the PM rush. Mixing bowl notwithstanding, You can usually make pretty good time to the bridge up to about Telegraph, BUT immediately thereafter, several things are converging to lengthen your period of pennance. Those few who are actually exiting on to Rt 1 N or S are coming right. People are simultaneously merging left to avoid the exit traffic about to come off. Rt 1 exit from the North converges with R1 exit traffic from the south on the overpass, and there is just enough width for 2 cages to ride side by side for a limited distance, and then, something has to give. This brings the right lane to a halt, and the next lane moves and slows suddenly with the sudden "gotta get left to avoid this crap RIGHT NOW" lane changers. The far left lane moves ok, right up to the bridge peak and then, for some reason that escapes me, comes to a "stop and go penalty" stop, and picks back up. IF the RT 1 exit(s) were completely eliminated and traffic were forced to get on at Telegraph, it would improve traffic around the bridge immensely because traffic would have a chance to sort itself out into the "ultra right laners" and "ultra left laners"... The moderates would just go slow in the middle lane... ... (we don't need more laws, just more law enforcement). [Dave] we don't need either, because they'll just go after "low hanging fruit", sit on the interstates and pick off speeders. Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 12 16:04:34 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 16:04:26 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: DC Cycles website FYI - Chris is the primary maintainer; but it is co-located on my personal server. I'm not sure if Laura still has access to the site or not. I limit inbound ftp. So ... I can also make updates and changes as time allows. Just send me the file, description, and the location on the website where you think it should go. If it is a Word doc, I would convert it to PDF. Static html is always preferred though. At 03:55 PM 9/12/2003, ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: >Mr. Weaver, Ms. Roach (formerly know as Granato :-)), how do I go about >getting something posted on the DC Cycles website? I've got a Word >document and photos, that go with the document, that I'd like to put >up. The document can be converted to whatever works and the pics are >.jpgs. Let me know and I can either e-mail them or send a cd. > >Scooter ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org Submit. Obey. 2000 Durango SLT 4x4 4.7 44k miles For sale $16k http://classifieds.autos.yahoo.com/class/detail.html?cid=automobiles-1061168440-6238393 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 12 16:27:56 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 16:27:41 -0400 To: Wayne Edelen , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Idiots on 270 today At 03:59 PM 9/12/03 -0400, Wayne Edelen wrote: >On Fri, 12 Sep 2003, Mike Bartman wrote: > >> They >> are lucky I don't just ram their asses, drag them out of their cars and >> beat them to death against the roadway as a proven enemy of civilization >> and thus give a small shove up the evolutionary ladder to all mankind. > >Or in the process, you would be removed from that same dirty gene pool. >Don't bring a knife to a gunfight, as they say. Exactly...may the better genes win. :^) >> And the FACT that when they cut in, the guy they cut off is going to have >> to hit the brakes, and that stops all the trafic behind him...again. That >> sort of thing slows traffic much more than is necessary to accommodate the >> merging traffic, and is a large part of why merges are always so >> ugly...unlike cops, there's always an asshole around. > >Wrong. > >The reason traffic stops again is because everyone is tailgating everyone >else. If someone cuts in front of you in 25mph traffic and you have to >slam on your brakes, you weren't paying attention. Period. Right. Traffic is very slow or almost stopped, or jackass wouldn't be running ahead in the merge lane and trying to squeeze in at the last second. That means that folks will tend to be pretty close to each other to start with, since the "two second rule" will give a value pretty close to a car length. When jackass cuts in at the last possible second, the person behind him will go from a comfortable following distance to a foot or two...and they will hit their brakes to re-establish it before they hit the asshole at the next sudden slowdown (probably due to some other asshole pulling in even later). Period. 30 years of driving experience, 23 of it around here, says I'm right. Traffic flow studies I've seen say I'm right. What are you basing your "Wrong." and "Period." on? >If people left adequate following distances, traffic would move more >smoothly because people in cars behind them wouldn't panic due to the >brake lights/dive and react by slamming on their brakes. If people would signal lane changes ahead of time, and do so before the last possible second so there's time to make adjustments to accommodate them, and not cut people off by squeezing into a space too small to fit and still leave proper following distance, people wouldn't have to hit the brakes and cause a standing wave to form and persist until traffic density drops (ever wonder why those sudden slowdowns occur on the beltway for no readily apparent reason? That's where they come from much of the time). If the roads were adequately sized for the traffic load, we wouldn't have these problems either...except when there's an accident or similar event. We have two realistic choices for this: 1) strangle the "public transportation" loonies and build some roads, or 2) convince everyone to ride bikes instead of drive cars (except for semi's and those needing to use their pickups to haul something of course. ;^). >> If people merge earlier, it can be done with more control, less braking and >> less disruption to traffic flow. The asshole ends up a few cars farther >> back, but everyone gets where they are going sooner. It's the same "me >> first, screw you!" attitude that causes gridlock at red lights...where >> jerks and morons pull into the intersection when they have no way to leave >> it...which is, BTW, illegal, but almost never enforced (we don't need more >> laws, just more law enforcement). They get stuck in the middle of the >> intersection, preventing cross-traffic from moving at all...just so they >> can get where they are going a minute or two sooner (if that). > >I agree. I knew you were reasonable! :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 12 16:41:19 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 16:39:34 -0400 To: Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Idiots in general WAS ...on 270 today At 03:53 PM 9/12/03 -0400, Dave Yates wrote: >> >>Lane splitters, if they aren't stupid about it, may actually >>benefit everyone by eliminating one vehicle from the mess, >>without slowing any others down. > >[Dave] We already covered this a few weeks back. Lane >splitters most assuredly do slow others down at the point of >merge just as any other vehicle will. Once they splitter >cust in, if there isn't sufficient following distance, the >one who was just cut over on has to reduce speed. That's why I said, "If they aren't stupid about it". Lane splitting to move up a few vehicles is stupid, for that reason. Lane splitting to get to the front of the traffic, where you can use your higher acceleration to be gone by the time the previous first vehicle gets its ponderous cargo moving, isn't so stupid. Lane splitting where there's plenty of room to do it without turning it into a "hit and run" on the cars and trucks you are passing isn't so stupid, but where there isn't room, it is. It just depends how you do it. Doing it as an emergency escape, as was described by a few folks here recently in the "rear end" discussion is very smart BTW. :^) >However, ANYBODY willing >to put their turn signal on with enough room for me to slow >gets a headlight flash & let in. Me too, but I think we could hold a meeting of like-minded people in a nearby Fotomat... >(we don't need more laws, just more law enforcement). > >[Dave] we don't need either, because they'll just go >after "low hanging fruit", sit on the interstates and pick >off speeders. That's why I said we needed more law enforcement...rather than more law enforcers. We may need both, but the first one is the more critical. At the moment the law enforcers that we have are, as you say, going after the easy targets for the most part, letting the rest get away with it enough that "everybody" starts doing it. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 12 17:03:27 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:03:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Phoenix 2.0s on sale at New Enough. I figure there might be one or two of you on here who aren't on New Enough's mailing list, so I thought I'd pass this on. Whatta steal! Fish. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:31:29 -0500 From: Paul at New Enough To: newenough@XXXXXX Subject: (no subject) Joe Rocket Phoenix 2.0 jackets are now on sale for men and women for only $65 while supplies last. This is the 2003 version that will accept the Dry Tech liner and Sahara Vest. Closeout Hot Weather Textiles: http://www.newenough.com/closeouts/textile_hot_weather.htm Joe Rocket Men's Phoenix 2.0 (red and yellow only), now $65 Ladies Closeouts: http://www.newenough.com/ladies/closeouts.htm Joe Rocket Ladies Phoenix 2.0 (all colors remaining in stock), now $65 Note about the Dry Tech Liners and Sahara Vests: Most sizes are sold out for fall, but we'll be getting more inventory later this year or early next--in plenty of time for spring. We advise customers to hold off on placing an order for the vests and liners unless the size shows "in stock". Check these two pages for availability: Men's: http://www.newenough.com/mens/jrphoenix.htm (bottom of the page) Ladies: http://www.newenough.com/ladies/jackets_mesh.htm Thanks for shopping with us, The New Enough Team _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe from our list go here: http://two.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/newenough From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 12 17:34:55 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 16:34:57 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Sean Jordan Subject: New GS500! http://www.motorfreaks.nl/fsget.php?id=1433 That looks pretty sweet for budget bike! -Sean Jordan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 12 17:45:12 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:45:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: New GS500! On Fri, 12 Sep 2003, Sean Jordan wrote: > That looks pretty sweet for budget bike! Ugh. Tupperware bad. Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 12 17:49:56 2003 From: "Shigeru Honda" To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: New GS500! Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 17:44:55 -0400 Ooh cool, pics of new V-Strom 650 & Gixxer too http://www.motorfreaks.nl/index.php/news/529 Stuff from Honda too http://www.motorfreaks.nl/index.php/news/537 --------------------- Shigeru Honda 98 SuperHawk (Street) 99 750 SS (Track) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fish Flowers" To: "DC-Cycles" Sent: Friday, September 12, 2003 5:45 PM Subject: Re: New GS500! > On Fri, 12 Sep 2003, Sean Jordan wrote: > > > That looks pretty sweet for budget bike! > > Ugh. Tupperware bad. > > Fish. > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 12 17:53:13 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 17:53:02 -0400 To: "Shigeru Honda" , "DC-Cycles" From: Aki Damme Subject: Re: New GS500! I'm not a big fan of those type of bikes so to me at least, they look exactly the same as all the others that are out there for the year and the year before that and the year before that..... At 05:44 PM 9/12/2003, Shigeru Honda wrote: >Ooh cool, pics of new V-Strom 650 & Gixxer too >http://www.motorfreaks.nl/index.php/news/529 > >Stuff from Honda too >http://www.motorfreaks.nl/index.php/news/537 > > >--------------------- >Shigeru Honda >98 SuperHawk (Street) >99 750 SS (Track) > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Fish Flowers" >To: "DC-Cycles" >Sent: Friday, September 12, 2003 5:45 PM >Subject: Re: New GS500! > > > > On Fri, 12 Sep 2003, Sean Jordan wrote: > > > > > That looks pretty sweet for budget bike! > > > > Ugh. Tupperware bad. > > > > Fish. > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 12 17:58:44 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 18:13:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: New GS500! On Fri, 12 Sep 2003, Aki Damme wrote: > I'm not a big fan of those type of bikes so to me at least, they look > exactly the same as all > the others that are out there for the year and the year before that > and the year before that..... Is that like every Harley looks the same since 1949... ;-) I like what Suzuki is doing with it's brand image, giving it's bikes a similar nose treatment. The GSXR1k started with it's Hayabusa-esque nose and it looks like it's filtering down to the smaller bikes. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 12 19:16:03 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 19:15:44 -0400 To: Wayne Edelen , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: New GS500! At 06:13 PM 9/12/03 -0400, Wayne Edelen wrote: >On Fri, 12 Sep 2003, Aki Damme wrote: > >> I'm not a big fan of those type of bikes so to me at least, they look >> exactly the same as all >> the others that are out there for the year and the year before that >> and the year before that..... > >Is that like every Harley looks the same since 1949... > > When you've got it right, why change it? :^) (From what I've heard, the 2004 Softails are the same as the 2003, except for the colors. The Sportsters are very different though.) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 12 19:27:33 2003 From: "lisagoddard" To: "'DC Cycles'" Subject: Honda RC30 goes crash! Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 19:27:07 -0400 I thought I posted this last night but I didn't see it in my digest. Please forgive me if I missed it. RC30 goes Crash!!!! Jay and I spent all weekend on the track with Sport Bike Track Time at the Beaver Run motorsports complex in beautiful Wampum PA. Jay was riding the RC30 and I was riding the tired )B’92 FZR600 Lizard bike. Our times improved drastically over the course of the weekend and by Sunday afternoon I was turning laps in the 1:15 range. We talked to one of the instructors for a bit about my upgrading track bikes and selling the lizard bike. It turns out he owns a motorcycle salvage shop. He invited us to return to the track on Wednesday, yesterday, to ride some more with a small group. We decided that would be a great way to meet up with him, take delivery of a used GSXR600 for me and to spend more time on a track that we really like. The instructor was to bring his bike to ride for the day and the GSXR for us to take home. Wampum made a good meeting place to pick up the bike as he would bring it with him from Columbus Ohio. We took only the RC30 and left space in the trailer to bring home the gixxer for me. We knew the gixxer would need some attention before being track ready but at least we would pick it up without having to drive all the way to Columbus Ohio. We decided we would both share the RC30 for a good day of riding. We showed up to the track yesterday. It turns out that the little group of riders, a total of 11 bikes, were being hosted by one of the shareholders of the track. Because the host is part-owner of the track the day ran a little differently than a normal track day. No tech inspection, no riders meeting, no sessions, and we even set up our pit on the grid. Just go out on the track when you feel like it, pit in when you feel like it, hot track the whole day and people were riding till 7 pm. I was handed my own personal radio to tell the corner workers to put the checkered flag out for Jay so I could take my turn on the bike. Our host even sent a track employee to pick up pizza for our lunch! Jay and I each had two good sessions on the RC. My lap times were down in the 1:12 area. Well, I lost it in turn 3 and crashed the RC! I did turn one just fine. I began to run wide and next thing I knew I was five inches in to the grass running parallel to the track. I tried to bring the bike back on to the pavement. I don)B’t know if I crashed from giving the bike too much rider input while riding in the grass or if the five-inch lip from the grass up on to the pavement did me in. Either way the SR)B’s had gotten a hold of me and I was doomed. My first thought was )B“Oh $#%! I’m sliding along on asphalt and grass” My second thought was )B“#$%&! Why did I have to do this to the RC and not the lizard bike?)B” My third thought was that Jay was going to kill me and if he didn)B’t kill me I was in for a long walk home. My fourth thought was “#$%&! Now the owner/host is never going to invite us back again!)B” My thoughts then began to drift towards the pain that was forthcoming. Well, we didn)B’t get to ride anymore but had a great time hanging out with this small group. Due to scheduling snafus the instructor arrived without the gixxer too! My right side took the beating when I crashed. My right knee is a little banged up, my right hip has a nice bruise from sliding on it. Last but not least my right shoulder is killing me. One of the riders there yesterday is the ankle/foot orthopedist for the Steelers, he was placing bets that I have separated my shoulder. Today's X-rays confirmed that suspicion. The gear held up beautifully considering I was probably going at least 50mph. The Kushitani suit is heavily scratched but all seams are intact. I had a Kushitani Cool Max suit on that is still in perfect condition. My Arai Signet helmet, not even one year old, has clumps of dirt and grass wedged under the face shield. I will have to replace it. The Bohn back protector must have done its)B’ job as my back feels perfect. My neck is a little sore but I firmly believe that it is from compensating for my angry shoulder, NOT from the weight of the helmet or any of that other anti-helmet BS. My Alpinestar boots are quite scuffed but in great condition. I have asked Jay to tell June Kushitani how the suit held up the next time they talk as June remembers my exact suit. My Spyke gloves did a great job, the carbon fiber on the right hand really took a beating. Despit making little comments about being married to Evil Kneivel Jay could not have been a better husband throughout all of this, he has reminded me that the RC is still a clump of metal and it is quite repairable. I did not dent the tank or the exhaust pipe. I already had the honor of being a rider who had dragged both knees while riding an RC30 on the track, now I a rider who has also crashed an RC30! The owner/host has even invited us back. Jay plans on taking a road trip in a few days to pick up the gixxer for me. I plan on getting back on the track as soon as possible. I think the lizard bike knew I was getting ready to unload her and put a curse on me! From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 12 19:53:45 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 19:53:38 -0400 To: "lisagoddard" , "'DC Cycles'" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Honda RC30 goes crash! At 07:27 PM 9/12/03 -0400, lisagoddard wrote: >My right side took the beating when I crashed. My right >knee is a little banged up, my right hip has a nice bruise from sliding on >it. Last but not least my right shoulder is killing me. One of the riders >there yesterday is the ankle/foot orthopedist for the Steelers, he was >placing bets that I have separated my shoulder. Today's X-rays confirmed >that suspicion. Ouch! Hope the knee damage isn't serious, but that shoulder sounds like no fun at all. Find a really good doctor and do whatever they tell you to do. Don't ignore their instructions and start doing things too soon, or you could make it a permanent problem...or so I've been told by an R.N. who used to hang out on an Aikido list I used to be on. Separated shoulders are one of the more common Aikido injuries (usually from doing a forward roll improperly). Some of the physical therapy might hurt a fair bit, but if you let it stiffen up for too long, it is worse...but do what the doctor says to do, so long as you found a good one. Good luck with the healing! -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 12 23:48:38 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 23:48:28 -0400 To: From: Aki Damme Subject: Re: New GS500! At 06:13 PM 9/12/2003, Wayne Edelen wrote: >On Fri, 12 Sep 2003, Aki Damme wrote: > > > I'm not a big fan of those type of bikes so to me at least, they > look > > exactly the same as all > > the others that are out there for the year and the year before > that > > and the year before that..... > >Is that like every Harley looks the same since 1949... > > ..hey hey HEY! In 1949 they didn't have uh...ELECTRIC STARTS.. so THERE! Pfffff! >;-) > >I like what Suzuki is doing with it's brand image, giving it's bikes >a >similar nose treatment. The GSXR1k started with it's Hayabusa-esque >nose >and it looks like it's filtering down to the smaller bikes. > >-- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Sep 13 09:30:58 2003 From: "Michael Jordan" To: Subject: Re: New GS500! Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 09:30:51 -0400 > >Is that like every Harley looks the same since 1949... > ..hey hey HEY! In 1949 they didn't have uh...ELECTRIC STARTS.. so > THERE! Pfffff! Or rear suspension, for that matter... Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Sep 13 12:15:30 2003 Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 12:15:00 -0400 To: Aki Damme , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: New GS500! At 11:48 PM 9/12/03 -0400, Aki Damme wrote: >At 06:13 PM 9/12/2003, Wayne Edelen wrote: >>Is that like every Harley looks the same since 1949... >> >> > >..hey hey HEY! In 1949 they didn't have uh...ELECTRIC STARTS.. so >THERE! Pfffff! Yeah, and haven't they changed motor designs at least THREE TIMES since 1949??? ;^) (Pan->Shovel->Evo->TC88...or was there something else in there too?) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Sep 13 13:52:47 2003 Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 10:52:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Now this would be nice...... To: Mike Bartman , ScooterFZR@XXXXXX, steven.dipietro@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 05:29 PM 9/11/03 -0400, ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: > >That would be a Schuberth. Where'd you try one on at? > I wanted to try > one but not sure where around here they would be. > > Rockville Harley (Battley Cycles), on Airpark Road, in > Gaithersburg. Want > directions? :^) easy.... just follow the scent of bullshit and greed. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Sep 13 14:21:44 2003 Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 14:15:45 -0400 From: "Steven C. Di Pietro" To: DCCycles Subject: GPS Question, revisited X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out006.verizon.net from [141.157.41.138] at Sat, 13 Sep 2003 13:21:31 -0500 Hi all, Well a new credit card came in and I broke it in with a Garmin Legend E-Trex hand held GPS unit. Ram mounts for the two Suzuki's and the cage will be ordered soon after I pick up some Mapping software. I don't seem to know enough about the software to be able to decide which one I'll find more useful. So far I've narrowed it down to "Roads and Recreation," "North America City Navigator," and "Metro Guide USA." The levels of detail seemed the same while using the Map Viewer at Garmin's web site. As I mentioned earlier, I serve court summonses in Balto. and the surrounding counties. My main goal is to be able to use the bike all day and leave the cage at home. I'll also be using the software to find my way back after purposefully getting lost on the bikes, and maybe planning road trips. Feel free to contact me off list. Thanks, Steve Steven C. Di Pietro Interim National Director The Suzuki Owners Club -USA 16 W. Jeffrey Street Baltimore Md. 21225-1713 http://www.soc-usa.org 1996 Suzuki Katana 600 2001 Suzuki Marauder 800 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Sep 13 14:24:18 2003 Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 14:23:08 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Mike Bartman CC: Aki Damme , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: New GS500! Mike Bartman wrote: > Yeah, and haven't they changed motor designs at least THREE TIMES since > 1949??? ;^) > > (Pan->Shovel->Evo->TC88...or was there something else in there too?) > > -- Mike B. TC88B - the counterbalanced engine that doesn't shake and vibe. Like what's the point of that? A Harley is what it is, an 800 pound vibrator! Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Sep 13 20:04:02 2003 From: "Michael Jordan" To: "DCCycles" Subject: Re: GPS Question, revisited Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 16:30:21 -0400 > Well a new credit card came in and I broke it in with a > Garmin Legend E-Trex hand held GPS unit. Ram mounts for the two Suzuki's > and the cage will be ordered soon after I pick up some Mapping software. > I don't seem to know enough about the software to be able to decide > which one I'll find more useful. So far I've narrowed it down to "Roads > and Recreation," "North America City Navigator," and "Metro Guide USA." > The levels of detail seemed the same while using the Map Viewer at > Garmin's web site. > As I mentioned earlier, I serve court summonses in Balto. and the > surrounding counties. My main goal is to be able to use the bike all day > and leave the cage at home. I'll also be using the software to find my > way back after purposefully getting lost on the bikes, and maybe > planning road trips. Go with Garmin's "Roads and Recreation" The "Metro Guide" software is only really useful for the Street Pilot and GPS V units, as they're the only units that give turn-by-turn directions. All of the rest of them give you "It's 3.7 miles thataway" directions - straight line to destination - you figure out where to turn. The 8MB in the Legend should give you pretty good coverage for the Baltimore area using Roads & Rec - Metro Guide will eat too much space up as it has a database of places that the Street Pilots (but not the Legend) can reference. N.A. City Navigator is only for the Street Pilot III Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Sep 13 20:04:31 2003 Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 15:09:41 -0400 To: Mike Bartman , From: Aki Damme Subject: Re: New GS500! At 12:15 PM 9/13/2003, Mike Bartman wrote: >At 11:48 PM 9/12/03 -0400, Aki Damme wrote: > >At 06:13 PM 9/12/2003, Wayne Edelen wrote: > > >>Is that like every Harley looks the same since 1949... > >> > >> > > > >..hey hey HEY! In 1949 they didn't have uh...ELECTRIC STARTS.. so > > >THERE! Pfffff! > >Yeah, and haven't they changed motor designs at least THREE TIMES >since >1949??? ;^) > >(Pan->Shovel->Evo->TC88...or was there something else in there too?) > >-- Mike B. don't forget that pesky water cooled V-Rod Evolution engine. blech... -aki >**************************************************************************** >* Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation >Obliterated * >* Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions >Offered * >* omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles >Stimulated * >*--------------------------------------------------------------------------* >* "We do it all! No job too small! No price too >high! * >**************************************************************************** > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Sep 13 20:07:30 2003 Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 13:07:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: GPS Question, revisited To: "Steven C. Di Pietro" , DCCycles --- "Steven C. Di Pietro" wrote: > As I mentioned earlier, I serve court summonses in > Balto. and the > surrounding counties. what do you charge? do you do skip tracing? what is your service area? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Sep 14 02:19:05 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 23:07:16 EDT Subject: Re: Idiots on 270 today To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 9/12/2003 12:56:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rob@XXXXXX writes: > Speed bumps on 270 might be interesting. That would be the ultimate prank. > Install speed bumps at like 4AM in the morning on I270 south. You only _think_ you are kidding! Bastards in Newport News installed Botts Dotts (about 5" high 5" diameter _concrete_ lumps) on a stretch of interstate where a lane ended. Painted white, right on top of white stripes. They were not there one day and were there the next. Bent _both_ of my wheels and cracked one of them. I was damn lucky to stay upright. I had no idea what I had hit until the next day. Did I say Bastards? Good! Bastards. (But I am not bitter.) Loud pipes quell cells. 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Sep 14 04:24:43 2003 Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 19:57:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Now this would be nice...... To: Mike Bartman , ScooterFZR@XXXXXX, steven.dipietro@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 10:52 AM 9/13/03 -0700, Tom Gimer wrote: > >--- Mike Bartman wrote: > >> At 05:29 PM 9/11/03 -0400, ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: > >> >That would be a Schuberth. Where'd you try one on > at? > >> I wanted to try > >> one but not sure where around here they would be. > >> > >> Rockville Harley (Battley Cycles), on Airpark Road, in > >> Gaithersburg. Want > >> directions? :^) > > > >easy.... just follow the scent of bullshit and greed. > > Sorry, he's looking for a helmet at a Harley dealership > not a lawyer. funny. talk to us again after you've had your new bike serviced at battleys. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Sep 14 04:25:21 2003 Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 22:44:19 -0400 To: "DCCycles" From: Troutman Subject: Re: GPS Question, revisited At 04:30 PM 9/13/2003, Michael Jordan wrote: >Go with Garmin's "Roads and Recreation" The "Metro Guide" software is only >really useful for the Street Pilot and GPS V units, as they're the only >units that give turn-by-turn directions. All of the rest of them give you >"It's 3.7 miles thataway" directions - straight line to destination - you >figure out where to turn. The 8MB in the Legend should give you pretty good >coverage for the Baltimore area using Roads & Rec - Metro Guide will eat too >much space up as it has a database of places that the Street Pilots (but not >the Legend) can reference. N.A. City Navigator is only for the Street Pilot >III Roads and Rec maps are way out of date. If you want more current data, spend the money on the Metro Guide. It won't do the routing as Michael said, but the maps are only 4 years out of date instead of 10. Unfortunately each map section is 8Mb in Metro Guide, so you would need a memory boost to have more than one section in at a time - unless you use R&R which uses much smaller data files. _____________________________________ Mike Troutman mike@XXXXXX http://www.troutman.org/vfr '97 Honda VFR 750 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Sep 14 04:32:06 2003 Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 22:07:38 -0400 To: Aki Damme , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: New GS500! At 03:09 PM 9/13/03 -0400, Aki Damme wrote: >At 12:15 PM 9/13/2003, Mike Bartman wrote: >>Yeah, and haven't they changed motor designs at least THREE TIMES >>since >>1949??? ;^) >> >>(Pan->Shovel->Evo->TC88...or was there something else in there too?) >> >>-- Mike B. > >don't forget that pesky water cooled V-Rod Evolution >engine. blech... Oh yeah, that one. Wasn't that designed by Porche? I know they hired it out somewhere anyway. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Sep 14 04:32:06 2003 Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 22:06:30 -0400 To: "William J. Huson" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: New GS500! Cc: Aki Damme , dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 02:23 PM 9/13/03 -0400, William J. Huson wrote: >Mike Bartman wrote: > >> Yeah, and haven't they changed motor designs at least THREE TIMES since >> 1949??? ;^) >> >> (Pan->Shovel->Evo->TC88...or was there something else in there too?) >> >> -- Mike B. > >TC88B - the counterbalanced engine that doesn't shake and vibe. Yeah, that's after the TC88, but I wasn't figuring it as different enough to warrant mention...after all, they didn't think it needed much of a different name... :^) >Like what's the >point of that? A Harley is what it is, an 800 pound vibrator! The FLSTC is only about 680 lbs... :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Sep 14 04:32:07 2003 Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 22:04:07 -0400 To: Tom Gimer , ScooterFZR@XXXXXX, steven.dipietro@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Now this would be nice...... At 10:52 AM 9/13/03 -0700, Tom Gimer wrote: >--- Mike Bartman wrote: >> At 05:29 PM 9/11/03 -0400, ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: >> >That would be a Schuberth. Where'd you try one on at? >> I wanted to try >> one but not sure where around here they would be. >> >> Rockville Harley (Battley Cycles), on Airpark Road, in >> Gaithersburg. Want >> directions? :^) > >easy.... just follow the scent of bullshit and greed. Sorry, he's looking for a helmet at a Harley dealership not a lawyer. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Sep 14 04:32:08 2003 Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 23:16:19 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Mike Bartman CC: Aki Damme , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: New GS500! Mike Bartman wrote: > At 02:23 PM 9/13/03 -0400, William J. Huson wrote: > >Mike Bartman wrote: > > > >> Yeah, and haven't they changed motor designs at least THREE TIMES since > >> 1949??? ;^) > >> > >> (Pan->Shovel->Evo->TC88...or was there something else in there too?) > >> > >> -- Mike B. > > > >TC88B - the counterbalanced engine that doesn't shake and vibe. > > Yeah, that's after the TC88, but I wasn't figuring it as different enough > to warrant mention...after all, they didn't think it needed much of a > different name... :^) > > >Like what's the > >point of that? A Harley is what it is, an 800 pound vibrator! > > The FLSTC is only about 680 lbs... :^) > > -- Mike B. 680 dry. Add fuel, many oils (engine, primary, tranny) and all those ***chrome*** accessories and wiegh her wet. My FLHS is 752 dry, figure 800 wet. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Sep 14 06:09:18 2003 Subject: Re: New GS500! From: Brian Roach To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 13 Sep 2003 22:32:57 -0400 On Sat, 2003-09-13 at 15:09, Aki Damme wrote: > don't forget that pesky water cooled V-Rod Evolution > engine. blech... You mean the one they had Porsche design for them? Gotta love that "American Ingenuity". :( - Roach From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Sep 14 06:09:18 2003 Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 23:15:10 -0400 To: Mike Bartman From: Aki Damme Subject: Re: New GS500! Cc: dc-cycles At 10:07 PM 9/13/2003, you wrote: >At 03:09 PM 9/13/03 -0400, Aki Damme wrote: > >At 12:15 PM 9/13/2003, Mike Bartman wrote: > > >>Yeah, and haven't they changed motor designs at least THREE TIMES > > >>since > >>1949??? ;^) > >> > >>(Pan->Shovel->Evo->TC88...or was there something else in there > too?) > >> > >>-- Mike B. > > > >don't forget that pesky water cooled V-Rod Evolution > >engine. blech... > >Oh yeah, that one. Wasn't that designed by Porche? I know they >hired it >out somewhere anyway. > >-- Mike B. yup the Porsche folks help design that puppy. Still think it should of gone into the Buells where it belonged. >**************************************************************************** >* Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation >Obliterated * >* Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions >Offered * >* omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles >Stimulated * >*--------------------------------------------------------------------------* >* "We do it all! No job too small! No price too >high! * >**************************************************************************** > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Sep 14 06:30:38 2003 Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 20:23:50 -0700 (PDT) From: matthew patton Subject: Re: GPS Question, revisited To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX are you going to do the $600 break-in procedure, too? Don't want to wear that metalic strip out... R&R is what I use and love it but I'm not trying to find addresses though. Only the more fancy models can pinpoint addresses when you punch them in on the unit. If I recall the PC mapping software can get decent on street addresses but don't hold me to it. 8mb holds the entire VA/WV/some PA/some NC 1-day riding area for me. ===== * Love, not time, heals all wounds. * No one is perfect until you fall in love with them. And then when they aren't perfect anymore, love makes them perfect again. * Everyone wants to live on top of the mountain, but all the happiness and growth occurs while you're climbing it * You can not forgive unless you first love. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Sep 14 07:24:11 2003 Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 14:57:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Larry Larson Subject: Re: New GS500! To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: Aki Damme , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- "William J. Huson" wrote: >.... A Harley is what it is, an 800 pound vibrator! Ahhh, so those very lifelike (but not to scale) synthetic penises you see mounted to passenger seats, etc., at Sturgis and Daytona are just a continuation of the theme, eh? -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Sep 14 07:45:01 2003 Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 07:10:14 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Idiots on 270 today PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > In a message dated 9/12/2003 12:56:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > rob@XXXXXX writes: > > > Speed bumps on 270 might be interesting. That would be the ultimate prank. > > Install speed bumps at like 4AM in the morning on I270 south. > > You only _think_ you are kidding! > Bastards in Newport News installed Botts Dotts (about 5" high 5" diameter > _concrete_ lumps) on a stretch of interstate where a lane ended. Painted white, > right on top of white stripes. They were not there one day and were there the > next. > Bent _both_ of my wheels and cracked one of them. > I was damn lucky to stay upright. > I had no idea what I had hit until the next day. > Did I say Bastards? Good! > Bastards. > (But I am not bitter.) I doubt they were "Botts Dots" (tm). Botts dots are almost flat with the roadway and employ trick optics to retroreflect and project an image up, giving the oncoming vehicle the visual of a high white thing but the BD itself is hardly a wheel popping bump in the road - very flat profile. Of course the Newport News highway idiots could have retrofitted BDs and rather than gouge a socket in the concrete merely plopped a gop of cement down to embed the Botts Dot. Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Sep 14 09:16:16 2003 Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 09:15:04 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Larry Larson CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, Aki Damme Subject: Re: New GS500! Larry Larson wrote: > --- "William J. Huson" wrote: > >.... A Harley is what it is, an 800 pound vibrator! > > Ahhh, so those very lifelike (but not to scale) synthetic > penises you see mounted to passenger seats, etc., at > Sturgis and Daytona are just a continuation of the theme, > eh? > > -- Larry Har har har... Yeah, I saw an advert for a *rod* mounted on the pillion seat for passenger "comfort". This one even had a vibe mode for those bikes that don't provide "comfort" vibes on their own. But fake penises on pillion seats? One more reason on my long lisyt of why bother going to monster rally... Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Sep 14 10:23:21 2003 Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 10:37:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: dc-cycles Subject: Re: New GS500! On Sat, 13 Sep 2003, Aki Damme wrote: > > >don't forget that pesky water cooled V-Rod Evolution > > >engine. blech... > > > >Oh yeah, that one. Wasn't that designed by Porche? I know they > >hired it > >out somewhere anyway. > > yup the Porsche folks help design that puppy. Still think it should > of gone into the > Buells where it belonged. I thought that the Porsche only helped with the cooling system. And I agree, a tweaked version of that powerplant (it's still underpowered in the Vrod) should find it's way into the Buells. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Sep 14 11:06:23 2003 Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 10:31:51 -0400 To: Wayne Edelen , dc-cycles From: Aki Damme Subject: Re: New GS500! At 10:37 AM 9/14/2003, Wayne Edelen wrote: >On Sat, 13 Sep 2003, Aki Damme wrote: > > > > >don't forget that pesky water cooled V-Rod Evolution > > > >engine. blech... > > > > > >Oh yeah, that one. Wasn't that designed by Porche? I know they > > >hired it > > >out somewhere anyway. > > > > yup the Porsche folks help design that puppy. Still think it > should > > of gone into the > > Buells where it belonged. > >I thought that the Porsche only helped with the cooling system. > >And I agree, a tweaked version of that powerplant (it's still >underpowered >in the Vrod) should find it's way into the Buells. nope...Porsche worked on the overall engine design. HD engineers went to Porsches R&D center in Germany to help work with them on it. HD's strongest input on the engine design was it's "stylish" looks. 8-P >-- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Sep 14 11:28:20 2003 Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 10:28:27 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Sean Jordan Subject: Re: New GS500! Wayne wrote: >And I agree, a tweaked version of that powerplant (it's still underpowered >in the Vrod) should find it's way into the Buells. Unfortunately, the V-Rod engine is entirely too big and too heavy to be shoehorned into a sport-oriented chassis. -Sean Jordan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Sep 14 11:40:18 2003 From: "Mobacc" To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Isabel -- This could be Ultra-Godzilla Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 11:38:21 -0400 Sorry for this downer, but because I've been through several major 'canes elsewhere, have to add to other warnings amassing -- Izzy looks big, bad, and major, major mean. This category 5+ could throw cars, houses, buildings, bridges, etc., etc. around our normally sheltered region if it continues pointed up the Bay. My suggestion -- plan NOW. Stores may be out soon, and if the Eastern and Western Shores are evacuated, traffic will not move. And power out, no auto or kitchen gas. Pray for a frontal pushoff by a gift from Canada. Doesn't look likely. Bill S. / DC '99 VN750 > Pontoons, please Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Sep 14 14:54:44 2003 From: "Michael Jordan" To: "DCCycles" Subject: Re: GPS Question, revisited Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 14:54:37 -0400 > Roads and Rec maps are way out of date. If you want more current data, > spend the money on the Metro Guide. It won't do the routing as Michael > said, but the maps are only 4 years out of date instead of > 10. Unfortunately each map section is 8Mb in Metro Guide, so you would > need a memory boost to have more than one section in at a time - unless you > use R&R which uses much smaller data files. I didn't note that - but the etrex series isn't upgradeable memory-wise - whatcha buy is whatcha live with. Ergo R&R vs MG as he only has 8MB to play with. Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Sep 14 18:54:41 2003 Subject: Laura's new street ride From: Brian Roach To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 14 Sep 2003 18:32:24 -0400 So ... after about 60 hours of work, a bunch of parts, and many times wanting to throw the thing in a lake ... I've finally finished Laura's street bike. The bike originally came from Japan as a beater, but I knew that when I got it. The only "before" picture I have really doesn't do justice to the pitiful state the bike was in. I thought I'd taken a couple in the daytime, but I can't find them. It is, however, the first big ground-up restoration project I've ever done. I discovered that when you do one, everything that could possibly be wrong, generally is :) Anyway ... I present: Before: http://members.cox.net/broach5/nsr250.jpg After: http://members.cox.net/broach5/lauraNSR.jpg - Roach From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Sep 14 20:28:35 2003 Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 20:28:13 -0400 Subject: Re: Laura's new street ride From: Randy Moran To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Wow, Brian, beautiful job. She's got the coolest bike around! RPM On Sunday, September 14, 2003, at 06:32 PM, Brian Roach wrote: > > > So ... after about 60 hours of work, a bunch of parts, and many times > wanting to throw the thing in a lake ... I've finally finished Laura's > street bike. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Sep 14 21:35:42 2003 Reply-To: "Kathleen Loerich" From: "Kathleen Loerich" To: , Subject: Fw: ABATE (Event): ABATE of Maryland, Inc. State Helmet Law Protest Rally Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 21:48:35 -0400 FYI: ----- Original Message ----- From: "ABATE of Maryland, Inc." To: Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2003 5:10 PM Subject: ABATE (Event): ABATE of Maryland, Inc. State Helmet Law Protest Rally > October 5, 2003 (date change). > > ABATE of Maryland State Helmet Law Protest Rally. > > ABATE of Maryland, Inc. presents the 12th Annual Helmet Law Protest Run & > Rally. > Gates open at 10 am. > Ride to the Capitol at Noon. > > Time: 10 am to 4 pm. > > Admission: ABATE Members: FREE! Non-Members: $5.00. > Vendor Spaces: 10 ft X 10 ft @ $50.00 Set up begins at 8 am > > Location: ELKS CAMP BARRETT is located at the intersection of Hawkins Rd. & > Chesterfield Rd. in Crownsville, MD. > > Directions from Baltimore: Take Rt. 97S to (exit 5) Rt. 178-Generals > Highway to right on Crownsville Rd. (at light). Go 0.9 miles to right on > Hawkins Rd. Take Hawkins Rd. 1.5 miles to the end and (after stopping at > stop sign) go straight across Chesterfield Rd. to Elks Camp Barrett > (directly across the street). > > Directions from Washington, D.C.: Rt. 50 East to Rt. 450 (Parole Rd. Exit). > Continue on Rt. 450 until Rt. 178 (Generals Highway). Go left on Crownsville > Rd. Go 0.9 miles to right on Hawkins Rd. Take Hawkins Rd. 1.5 miles to the > end and (after stopping at stop sign) go straight across Chesterfield Rd. to > Elks Camp Barrett (directly across the street). > > For more information call toll free in Md. 1-800-843-0252 or 410-263-9185. > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Sep 14 23:07:14 2003 From: "Laura Roach" To: "Randy Moran" , Subject: Re: Laura's new street ride Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 22:11:29 -0400 > Wow, Brian, beautiful job. She's got the coolest bike around! > > RPM Brian did a great job on this bike! I'm so excited, I can't wait to get out and ride her. :) Laura From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 15 00:08:21 2003 Subject: RE: Laura's new street ride Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 00:07:55 -0400 From: "ROBERSON, Brian" To: Brian/Laura, I had to respond to this one. You guys did a fantastic job on this. What a hot looking bike!! Now im going to have to show up to a bike night to check this thing out!! BTW - any info behind the NSR250?? Fast bike?? How much horsepower does it make? Thanks for sharing - what a beautiful restoration! Brian -----Original Message----- From: Laura Roach [mailto:laura@XXXXXX] Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2003 10:11 PM To: Randy Moran; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Laura's new street ride > Wow, Brian, beautiful job. She's got the coolest bike around! > > RPM Brian did a great job on this bike! I'm so excited, I can't wait to get out and ride her. :) Laura From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 15 01:01:09 2003 Subject: RE: Laura's new street ride From: Brian Roach To: "ROBERSON, Brian" Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 15 Sep 2003 00:23:34 -0400 On Mon, 2003-09-15 at 00:07, ROBERSON, Brian wrote: > Brian/Laura, > > I had to respond to this one. You guys did a fantastic job on this. > What a hot looking bike!! Now im going to have to show up to a bike > night to check this thing out!! Thanks :D > BTW - any info behind the NSR250?? Fast > bike?? How much horsepower does it make? Depends on your definition of "fast" :) This one is a 1993 MC21 model. They weigh about 290 lbs wet and make around 60hp at the rear wheel in stock form with a good set of pipes and the electronic restriction removed (They have HP limits in Japan .. NSRs are restricted to 47 hp). If you put a little work into the motor, you can easily eek out another 10% reliably. In '93, they'd give any 600 a run for it's money in the power to weight dept. The last revision (the MC28), which was discontinued in 1998, can make over 70 hp if you know what you're doing and are willing to spend a little cash on it. The big deal is their handling characteristics ... it's about half way between a normal street bike, and a real production GP bike. They are an absolute BLAST to ride in the twisties or on a race track. And ... it's a two-stroke. I like not having valves. :) - Roach From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 15 08:34:46 2003 Subject: Re: Laura's new street ride Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 19:21:00 -0500 From: To: , I am Feeling very envious right now.... >>> Brian Roach 09/14/03 06:32PM >>> So ... after about 60 hours of work, a bunch of parts, and many times wanting to throw the thing in a lake ... I've finally finished Laura's street bike. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 15 09:52:14 2003 Subject: 48 Message! From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 15 Sep 2003 09:48:01 -0400 Jeeze, didn't any of you ride this weekend? It was beautiful or as I tell folks here, every day is a great day for a ride :-) Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 15 10:02:14 2003 Reply-To: wayne@XXXXXX From: "wayne@XXXXXX" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: 48 Message! Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:02:06 -0400 I rode this weekend and this morning. It was a bit foggy heading out this AM, lots of condensation on the inside of my visor. Traffic was reasonable on 270, 35 mins to go 33 miles. Add 15-20 minutes if I would have been in a car, due to traffic. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ Original Message: ----------------- From: Carl Schelin Jeeze, didn't any of you ride this weekend? It was beautiful or as I tell folks here, every day is a great day for a ride :-) -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 15 10:03:09 2003 Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 07:02:30 -0700 (PDT) From: matthew patton Subject: Re: 48 Message! To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I rode. went to a birthday party. raingear on in the morning, just escaped the rains in the afternoon. delightful. ===== * Love, not time, heals all wounds. * No one is perfect until you fall in love with them. And then when they aren't perfect anymore, love makes them perfect again. * Everyone wants to live on top of the mountain, but all the happiness and growth occurs while you're climbing it * You can not forgive unless you first love. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 15 10:15:28 2003 Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:15:20 -0400 To: Tom Gimer , ScooterFZR@XXXXXX, steven.dipietro@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Now this would be nice...... At 07:57 PM 9/13/03 -0700, Tom Gimer wrote: >--- Mike Bartman wrote: >> At 10:52 AM 9/13/03 -0700, Tom Gimer wrote: >> >easy.... just follow the scent of bullshit and greed. >> >> Sorry, he's looking for a helmet at a Harley dealership >> not a lawyer. > >funny. talk to us again after you've had your new bike >serviced at battleys. Ok, willdo! So far everyone there has been very nice and helpful (sales, parts, service)...and not all of them knew I hadn't bought a bike yet. What I've heard from people who have bought bikes is good so far. If you have too, then you are the first negative comment I've gotten from any customers. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 15 10:17:53 2003 Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:17:48 -0400 From: "Chris Norloff" Reply-To: To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: Isabel -- This could be Ultra-Godzilla Oh ... good thing we have a Vintage Observed Trials scheduled for this weekend ... it's been a year for weather, eh! Chris Norloff ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Mobacc" Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 11:38:21 -0400 >Sorry for this downer, but because I've been through several major 'canes >elsewhere, have to add to other warnings amassing -- Izzy looks big, bad, >and major, major mean. This category 5+ could throw cars, houses, >buildings, bridges, etc., etc. around our normally sheltered region if it >continues pointed up the Bay. > >My suggestion -- plan NOW. Stores may be out soon, and if the Eastern and >Western Shores are evacuated, traffic will not move. And power out, no auto >or kitchen gas. > >Pray for a frontal pushoff by a gift from Canada. Doesn't look likely. > >Bill S. / DC >'99 VN750 > Pontoons, please >Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 15 10:18:25 2003 Subject: RE: 48 Message! From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 15 Sep 2003 10:14:16 -0400 On Mon, 2003-09-15 at 10:02, wayne@XXXXXX wrote: > I rode this weekend and this morning. It was a bit foggy heading out this > AM, lots of condensation on the inside of my visor. Traffic was reasonable > on 270, 35 mins to go 33 miles. Add 15-20 minutes if I would have been in > a car, due to traffic. > Cool! I went down to Stafford to visit my daughter and take her to lunch. She's in love with the Suzuki after a short ride :-) I'm definitely getting squiddley on this bike. I am wearing my gear though ;-) I told Rita that riding was fun on this thing. She basically said that I now have four bikes, eh? :-) > -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 15 10:18:50 2003 Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:17:40 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Carl Schelin CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: 48 Message! Carl Schelin wrote: > Jeeze, didn't any of you ride this weekend? It was beautiful or as I > tell folks here, every day is a great day for a ride :-) > > Carl Nope. Going WOT on boat repair, and my poor Hawg seat is temporary repository for hand tools. Probably ride this week, must take the 4WD Pickemup truck in for brake repairs, rear shocks, inspection, and the annual tech-mech survey and R&R of any parts which could possibly go TU on the way to the beach. Milady the avid fisherwoman will be driving it, and the slightest hint of mechanical quirks makes her an unhappy woman, which means I'll be sleeping alone on the beach with the skeeters... yeesh! Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 15 10:19:28 2003 Subject: Re: 48 Message! From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 15 Sep 2003 10:15:18 -0400 On Mon, 2003-09-15 at 10:02, matthew patton wrote: > I rode. went to a birthday party. raingear on in the morning, just > escaped the rains in the afternoon. delightful. > While down in Stafford I picked up some drizzle and a little rain at Rt 3 in Fredericksburg. We looped around and headed north again but it was drizzly until about Dumfries. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 15 10:27:10 2003 Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:17:48 -0400 To: "William J. Huson" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: New GS500! Cc: Aki Damme , dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 11:16 PM 9/13/03 -0400, William J. Huson wrote: >Mike Bartman wrote: >> The FLSTC is only about 680 lbs... :^) >> >> -- Mike B. > >680 dry. Add fuel, many oils (engine, primary, tranny) and all those >***chrome*** accessories and wiegh her wet. My FLHS is 752 dry, figure 800 wet. Add me and it goes up close to 1000 lbs...but I'm not going to be vibrating unless I have some experience like those I've been reading here recently...like the rear-end avoidance thread for instance! :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 15 10:34:30 2003 Subject: Re: 48 Message! From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 15 Sep 2003 10:30:19 -0400 On Mon, 2003-09-15 at 10:17, William J. Huson wrote: > Carl Schelin wrote: > > > Jeeze, didn't any of you ride this weekend? It was beautiful or as I > > tell folks here, every day is a great day for a ride :-) > > > > Carl > > Nope. Going WOT on boat repair, and my poor Hawg seat is temporary > repository for hand tools. Yea, I'm mucking about with the GSXR soldering wires and working on the fluids. > Probably ride this week, must take the 4WD > Pickemup truck in for brake repairs, rear shocks, inspection, and the > annual tech-mech survey and R&R of any parts which could possibly go TU > on the way to the beach. Heh, that would suck. I'm thinking on how far I want to go with the bike. If I decide to keep it, I'll have to take her in for a complete workover. If not, a working bike for a trade-in will do. Decisions, decisions. > Milady the avid fisherwoman will be driving > it, and the slightest hint of mechanical quirks makes her an unhappy > woman, Rita's been living in my (our) house for over three years now. A couple of months ago I poked at her a bit to find out what's bugging her about the house (lots of general stuff) but she vented about the windows sticking (wooden windows with renter's beige sprayed on with a hose) so I used a bit of a wax candle and they open/close just fine now. It would have been nice if she'd said it a couple of years ago. Me, I just whack it and it moves right up :-) > which means I'll be sleeping alone on the beach with the > skeeters... yeesh! > Yea, no fun that. Watch out for the striped skeeters. > Bill > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 15 10:37:33 2003 Reply-To: wayne@XXXXXX From: "wayne@XXXXXX" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Carl and his Gixxer (was 48 Message!) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:37:26 -0400 Welcome to the wonderful world of sportbikes ;-) Seriously, it's cool that you're enjoying the bike. Are you getting used to the riding position? -- Wayne Original Message: ----------------- From: Carl Schelin Cool! I went down to Stafford to visit my daughter and take her to lunch. She's in love with the Suzuki after a short ride :-) I'm definitely getting squiddley on this bike. I am wearing my gear though ;-) I told Rita that riding was fun on this thing. She basically said that I now have four bikes, eh? :-) -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 15 10:49:01 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Carl Schelin" , "dc-cycles list" Subject: Re: 48 Message! Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:48:49 -0400 Rode to New Hampshire and back with DC-Cycles dude and VFR rider Mark Kitchell. Spent the day Saturday sampling the back roads of Vermont and completing visiting the 25 states within one year I need for my National Parks Master Traveler Ironbutt certification. Kinda soggy on the way back as it rained all the way south to NYC. Looks like we need to get everything battened down by Wednesday. One advantage to living in the older parts of DC: all power lines underground. Our power has been out once in five years, and that was a planned outage to pull new cable. So hopefully no airborne manhole covers ala Georgetown in my 'hood. Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Schelin" > Jeeze, didn't any of you ride this weekend? It was beautiful or as I > tell folks here, every day is a great day for a ride :-) > > Carl > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 15 10:57:55 2003 Reply-To: "Jon Strang" From: "Jon Strang" To: Subject: Re: Laura's new street ride Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:57:25 -0400 Very nice job, Brian. --jon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Roach" > > > So ... after about 60 hours of work, a bunch of parts, and many times > wanting to throw the thing in a lake ... I've finally finished Laura's > street bike. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 15 11:01:56 2003 Subject: Re: Carl and his Gixxer (was 48 Message!) From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 15 Sep 2003 10:57:46 -0400 I'm getting better. I feel the burn in my back muscles from keeping me off of my palms. My slightly *cough* larger belly helps by being a fulcrum. I learned that one quickly :-) While at speed, the wind helps keep me up off my palms. It'd be nice to have a working speedo though. I poked around and found that it's a broken cable. I pulled it off and rode around a bit. No spinning and the core came out about 6 inches. I pushed it back in and connected it back up. I'll be heading over to pick up a new cable as well as a filter. Saturday night I pissed off one guy when his wife/girlfriend/***** flung her cig out of the window while I was behind them. I flipped him off and then, using hand signs, chewed him out for her doing that. They need to put more of the F'burg cig signs up (public service type signs; 32 tons of cigs flung out per year, keep your butts in the car, like that). On the way back I was at the Dale City light and rolled into the right lane one car behind the intersection. Light changed, he moved forward, and I hugged the tank and boogied. As I was going up the next hill I looked behind me and they were just a few car lengths past the intersection. Since I'm running at around 6k and redline is at 13.5k, I'm really interested in getting the speedo working and all the fluids changed out. For sure though, this is a back-road bike and not a commuter. No respect ;-) Evil Overlord Carl "one bike at a time ;-)" On Mon, 2003-09-15 at 10:37, wayne@XXXXXX wrote: > Welcome to the wonderful world of sportbikes ;-) Seriously, it's cool > that you're enjoying the bike. Are you getting used to the riding position? > > -- Wayne > > Original Message: > ----------------- > From: Carl Schelin > > Cool! I went down to Stafford to visit my daughter and take her to > lunch. She's in love with the Suzuki after a short ride :-) > > I'm definitely getting squiddley on this bike. I am wearing my gear > though ;-) I told Rita that riding was fun on this thing. She basically > said that I now have four bikes, eh? :-) > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > mail2web - Check your email from the web at > http://mail2web.com/ . > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 15 11:06:28 2003 Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 08:06:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Now this would be nice...... To: Mike Bartman , ScooterFZR@XXXXXX, steven.dipietro@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 07:57 PM 9/13/03 -0700, Tom Gimer wrote: > >--- Mike Bartman wrote: > >> At 10:52 AM 9/13/03 -0700, Tom Gimer wrote: > > >> >easy.... just follow the scent of bullshit and greed. > >> > >> Sorry, he's looking for a helmet at a Harley > dealership > >> not a lawyer. > > > >funny. talk to us again after you've had your new bike > >serviced at battleys. > > Ok, willdo! So far everyone there has been very nice and > helpful (sales, > parts, service)...and not all of them knew I hadn't > bought a bike yet. > What I've heard from people who have bought bikes is good > so far. If you > have too, then you are the first negative comment I've > gotten from any > customers. correct me if i'm wrong in a five page rant, but you'll rarely find negative comments about a business from other CURRENT customers. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 15 11:07:27 2003 Reply-To: "Jon Strang" From: "Jon Strang" To: Subject: David Emde RIP Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:07:07 -0400 September 15, 2003 >From AMAsuperbike.com: This very sad news comes from former Daytona 200 winner Don Emde: DAVID EMDE KILLED SUNDAY IN SPORTBIKE CRASH David Emde, the 1976 AMA 250cc National Roadracing Champion, was killed Sunday morning in a sportbike crash in the San Diego area. Following his racing career, David worked in motorcycle dealerships in the San Diego area and enjoyed sportbike riding on the weekends. He reportedly was riding with friends in the mountain roads around the Ramona area of San Diego County when he went off the highway and he died at the scene. David's father Floyd won the 1948 Daytona 200 and his family members include his brothers Bob and Don and sisters JoAnn and Nancy. He also had a son, Bryan. Details about services are pending and updates will be posted on this and other motorcycle websites during the week. ** Emde was a multi-time 250 GP winner in the late 1970s early 1980s, and finished second at the Suzuka eight hours in 1978. He and Japanese rider Sugimoto were the infamous pair who did the eight-hour endurance race on a TZ750. -- Editor From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 15 12:48:22 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: 48 Message! Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:50:39 -0500 I just got my "new to me" '96 VFR Sunday and I took it for a spin the minute I got it home and on my insurance. Now I just gotta wait out the Hurricane for some good weather again. Rob -- Rob Sharp SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer ---------- Original Message ----------- From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Sent: 15 Sep 2003 09:48:01 -0400 Subject: 48 Message! > Jeeze, didn't any of you ride this weekend? It was beautiful or as I > tell folks here, every day is a great day for a ride :-) > > Carl ------- End of Original Message ------- From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 15 12:59:51 2003 Subject: Re: 48 Message! From: Carl Schelin To: Rob Sharp Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 15 Sep 2003 12:55:39 -0400 On Mon, 2003-09-15 at 13:50, Rob Sharp wrote: > I just got my "new to me" '96 VFR Sunday and I took it for a spin the minute I > got it home and on my insurance. Now I just gotta wait out the Hurricane for > some good weather again. > You're not going to ride in the hurricane? Just make sure to pack a paraglider ;-) > Rob > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 15 13:02:39 2003 Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:02:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Hurricane Bike Protection in DC? To: DC Cycles If and when Isabella arrives, is there a DC-area garage I can stow my bike in? Thanks Mark ===== www.deanforamerica.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 15 13:07:33 2003 Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 13:22:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Hurricane Bike Protection in DC? On Mon, 15 Sep 2003, Mark Kitchell wrote: > If and when Isabella arrives, is there a DC-area > garage I can stow my bike in? Thanks > > Mark I live near Frederick, but if someone needs a place to stow their bike, I have some room in the garage. Do we really think Isabella will be that strong? -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 15 13:08:03 2003 Subject: Re: Hurricane Bike Protection in DC? From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 15 Sep 2003 13:03:53 -0400 Where are you? I may be able to squeeze a couple of bikes into my garage. Carl On Mon, 2003-09-15 at 13:02, Mark Kitchell wrote: > If and when Isabella arrives, is there a DC-area > garage I can stow my bike in? Thanks > > Mark > > ===== > www.deanforamerica.com > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 15 13:14:56 2003 Subject: Re: Hurricane Bike Protection in DC? From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 15 Sep 2003 13:10:46 -0400 In fact, I can move stuff around and disassemble the workbench and probably get 4 or 5 in there if someone else needs a dry spot and is willing to help move things around. I also have a shed in the back yard that can probably hold a couple if push comes to shove. Carl On Mon, 2003-09-15 at 13:03, Carl Schelin wrote: > Where are you? I may be able to squeeze a couple of bikes into my > garage. > > Carl > > On Mon, 2003-09-15 at 13:02, Mark Kitchell wrote: > > If and when Isabella arrives, is there a DC-area > > garage I can stow my bike in? Thanks > > > > Mark > > > > ===== > > www.deanforamerica.com > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 15 13:17:24 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Mark Kitchell , DC Cycles Subject: Re: Hurricane Bike Protection in DC? Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 13:19:44 -0500 I am garageless too. I plan to put my VFR in the the back of my truck and tie it down and put a tarp over it. I am just worried about it tipping over. If a tree falls on it or something, so be it. Thats why I got insurance. -- Rob Sharp SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer ---------- Original Message ----------- From: Mark Kitchell To: DC Cycles Sent: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:02:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Hurricane Bike Protection in DC? > If and when Isabella arrives, is there a DC-area > garage I can stow my bike in? Thanks > > Mark > > ===== > www.deanforamerica.com > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ------- End of Original Message ------- From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 15 13:19:54 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Wayne Edelen" , "DC Cycles" Subject: Re: Hurricane Bike Protection in DC? Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 13:19:44 -0400 Hmm, my main protection against the elements is called "comprehensive." Still, I don't think I'll park either bike under any of the big trees on my block. ;-) Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne Edelen" > On Mon, 15 Sep 2003, Mark Kitchell wrote: > > > If and when Isabella arrives, is there a DC-area > > garage I can stow my bike in? Thanks > > > > Mark > > I live near Frederick, but if someone needs a place to stow their bike, > I have some room in the garage. > > Do we really think Isabella will be that strong? > > -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 15 14:13:21 2003 From: "Shigeru Honda" To: "madsters" , "dc-cycles" Subject: Practice session before race Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:01:14 -0400 I have a question to those who race. Is it legal to have more than 1 practice session? I race on Ducati 750ss in novice class. WERA's practice session goes like this: 1) 750cc Novices 2) 750cc and Up Experts 3) Lightweight Novices and Experts 4) 600cc Novices 5) 600cc Experts Since my 750ss qualifies in 1) 750cc, 3) Lightweight & 4) 600cc (in SuperSport class), do I get to practice 3 times? or is it simply just 1 session per rider? Thanks --------------------- Shigeru Honda 98 SuperHawk (Street) 99 750 SS (Track) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 15 14:24:23 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 14:23:41 EDT Subject: Re: Idiots on 270 today To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 9/14/2003 7:11:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time, bhuson@XXXXXX writes: > plopped a gop of cement down to embed > the Botts Dot. Nah, wrong term, I have heard them called bots dotts. But the size, composition, and the fact that they broke _both_ my wheels is correct. What I hit was concrete, not a piece of plastic glued to the road. Loud pipes quell cells. 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 15 14:41:46 2003 Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 14:39:57 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: roach@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Laura's new street ride X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 Kewl. Very nice. Can I take it for a test spin Laura? ;-) Scooter In a message dated 9/14/2003 6:32:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, roach@XXXXXX writes: > > > > > So ... after about 60 hours of work, a bunch of parts, and many times > wanting to throw the thing in a lake ... I've finally finished Laura's > street bike. > > The bike originally came from Japan as a beater, but I knew that when I > got it. The only "before" picture I have really doesn't do justice to > the pitiful state the bike was in. I thought I'd taken a couple in the > daytime, but I can't find them. > > It is, however, the first big ground-up restoration project I've ever > done. I discovered that when you do one, everything that > could possibly > be wrong, generally is :) > > Anyway ... I present: > > Before: http://members.cox.net/broach5/nsr250.jpg > > After: http://members.cox.net/broach5/lauraNSR.jpg > > - Roach From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 15 14:54:06 2003 From: "Laura Roach" To: "Shigeru Honda" , "madsters" , "dc-cycles" Subject: Re: Practice session before race Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 14:28:13 -0400 > Since my 750ss qualifies in 1) 750cc, 3) Lightweight & 4) 600cc (in > SuperSport class), do I get to practice 3 times? or is it simply just 1 > session per rider? If you only have one bike, you only get one practice session...it's your choice as to which group you want to practice in. Laura From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 15 15:13:35 2003 Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 14:58:53 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: markkitchell@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Hurricane Bike Protection in DC? X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 Hey Mark (and anyone else) there's still a couple places to squeeze bikes in my apartment buildings parking garage. There's a new Goldwing parked next to my bike but, there's a couple nooks and crannies that'll hold a bike. Anyone interested I live at 1234 Massachusetts Avenue, NW. It's on the corner of 13th and Mass. I'm sure my apartment manager wouldn't mind. She's pretty cool. Let me know as I'll have to let you in. I can even give you a ride home if you want. Scooter In a message dated 9/15/2003 1:02:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, markkitchell@XXXXXX writes: > > > If and when Isabella arrives, is there a DC-area > garage I can stow my bike in? Thanks > > Mark > > ===== > www.deanforamerica.com > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design > software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 15 15:20:54 2003 Subject: Re: Practice session before race Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 14:19:00 -0500 From: To: , , , I would practice with the fastest group. This should push you to ride a little faster. George >>> Laura Roach 09/15/03 02:28PM >>> > Since my 750ss qualifies in 1) 750cc, 3) Lightweight & 4) 600cc (in > SuperSport class), do I get to practice 3 times? or is it simply just 1 > session per rider? If you only have one bike, you only get one practice session...it's your choice as to which group you want to practice in. Laura From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 15 15:22:58 2003 Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:21:39 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Rob Sharp CC: Mark Kitchell , DC Cycles Subject: Re: Hurricane Bike Protection in DC? Have garage, have two-car carport, pressed for room. I plan to squeeze stuff in so Milady can park her new car under roof, and then I'm gonna tie my gutted boat (about 650 lbs empty) to my van, ~6,000lbs. If Izzy carries both off - oh well. Bill Rob Sharp wrote: > I am garageless too. I plan to put my VFR in the the back of my truck and tie > it down and put a tarp over it. I am just worried about it tipping over. If > a tree falls on it or something, so be it. Thats why I got insurance. > > -- From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 15 15:29:52 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: WERA @ Summit Raceway Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:32:11 -0500 Anyone going out to Summit this weekend? I am gonna ride out there to watch a friend race weather permitting on Sunday. Rob -- Rob Sharp SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 15 15:36:43 2003 Subject: RE: Hurricane Bike Protection in DC? Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:03:44 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "DC Cycles" Not in DC, but I've got a garage/storage unit in Manassas, right off of I-66, should hold a couple of bikes in addition to my own. Robert Verde ---------- Original Message ----------- From: Mark Kitchell To: DC Cycles Sent: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:02:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Hurricane Bike Protection in DC? > If and when Isabella arrives, is there a DC-area > garage I can stow my bike in? Thanks > > Mark > > ===== > www.deanforamerica.com > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 15 16:30:09 2003 Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 13:30:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: RE: Hurricane Bike Protection in DC? If anyone is still looking for garage space, I've got plenty out in Bowie, MD. Just got SWMBO's old car out of the garage, and I could probably fit six or seven bikes in without a problem. Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 15 17:45:53 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Skip" , "Verde, Robert" Cc: Subject: Re: Cannonball's Run 9/12 /1918 Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 17:42:39 -0400 "Only" 220 miles a day? In 1918?? Hmmm, I bet there were "only" 220 miles of paved road in the whole country at that time and very few road signs, no numbered through routes, no decent road maps, etc. Rural roads were used by farmers to go to the nearest town. The US numbered route designations didn't come along until the 1920s. My great uncle rode an Indian motorcycle to Yellowstone NP in the late 20s and it was mostly on dirt roads. Pity I never got to talk to him extensively about it, as he passed away before I really got interested in motorcycles. He did have a couple of severe crashes and still had the scars from really bad road rash on his legs 50+ years later as proof. Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Skip" > "Verde, Robert" wrote: > > > 1918 Cannonball's Run > > > > His fame led to other tours and promotional trips, and he completed his most extensive > tour on this day - a 17,000 mile, seventy-seven-day trip to all forty-eight state > capitals - yet another testament to his legendary endurance. > > that's only 220 miles per day. > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 15 17:48:27 2003 Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 14:48:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Larry Larson Subject: Re: Idiots on 270 today To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > > plopped a gop of cement down to embed the Botts Dot. > > Nah, wrong term, I have heard them called bots dotts. ==================== "Bott's Dots" were the first solution to this problem. In 1953 Dr. Elbert D. Botts, a traffic engineer at the Caltrans materials testing lab in Sacramento, developed a raised pavement marker to help make the painted lines separating lanes last longer. His dots were made of ceramic and glued onto roadways with epoxy. They were more permanent than the painted lines, and because they were raised they provided the additional safety feature of warning motorists when they strayed from their lane. After some refinements, Botts' Dots were mandated for all California freeways, except in areas where they would be damaged in snow-removal operations. But Bott's Dots were not particularly visible at night. In 1960, Caltrans asked the Stimsonite company for help solving this problem. Stimsonite, headquartered in New Jersey, was known as an innovator in reflective products used in other highway safety applications. In late 1963, after almost four years of research and development, the first reflective version of the Bott)B’s raised pavement markers were installed on the Golden Gate Bridge. Today there are an estimated 20 million dots on California freeways and highways )B— a lasting legacy to Mr. Botts, who passed away in 1962. ==================== -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 15 17:54:34 2003 Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 14:54:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Larry Larson Subject: Re: Hurricane Bike Protection in DC? To: DC Cycles --- Mark Kitchell wrote: > If and when Isabella arrives, is there a DC-area > garage I can stow my bike in? Thanks There's plenty of room in the garages in Crystal City for anyone near there. email me at larson@XXXXXX or call 703.306.2681 (11-7pm, cell 703.608.9646 if you need directions. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 15 17:58:41 2003 Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 17:05:31 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: markkitchell@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Hurricane Bike Protection in DC? X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 Oops, forgot to include a phone number. Home: 202-824-0778 Work: 202-274-2867 Scooter In a message dated 9/15/2003 2:58:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ScooterFZR writes: > > > Hey Mark (and anyone else) there's still a couple places to squeeze bikes in my apartment buildings parking garage. There's a new Goldwing parked next to my bike but, there's a couple nooks and crannies that'll hold a bike. Anyone interested I live at 1234 Massachusetts Avenue, NW. It's on the corner of 13th and Mass. I'm sure my apartment manager wouldn't mind. She's pretty cool. Let me know as I'll have to let you in. I can even give you a ride home if you want. > > Scooter > > In a message dated 9/15/2003 1:02:35 PM Eastern Daylight > Time, markkitchell@XXXXXX writes: > > > > > > > If and when Isabella arrives, is there a DC-area > > garage I can stow my bike in? Thanks > > > > Mark > > > > ===== > > www.deanforamerica.com > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design > > software > > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 15 18:00:16 2003 From: "Laura Roach" To: , , Subject: Re: Laura's new street ride Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 17:57:09 -0400 > Kewl. Very nice. Can I take it for a test spin Laura? ;-) > > Scooter LOL! Now that she's actually back in my hands...I'm not letting her out of my hands! ;) I did, however, just take her for a spin. DAMN! That bike is fun!!!! Watch out, kids, I'm back on the streets! LAR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 15 18:00:40 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Larry Larson" , "dc-cycles list" Subject: Re: Idiots on 270 today Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 17:58:57 -0400 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Larson" > --- PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > > > > plopped a gop of cement down to embed the Botts Dot. > > > > Nah, wrong term, I have heard them called bots dotts. > > ==================== > "Bott's Dots" were the first solution to this problem. In > 1953 Dr. Elbert D. Botts.... Thanks Larry. I see someone else knows how to use Google or similar to get the straight poop, rather than merely extemporizing and sliding into error.... Imagine if more people did this on DCC, why it might lead to something dangerous, like enlightenment. ;-) And yes, before anyone asks, I'm back on the list. Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 15 18:07:56 2003 Subject: Re: Practice session before race From: Brian Roach To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: shonda3@XXXXXX Date: 15 Sep 2003 18:07:46 -0400 Er, if by 750ss you mean a Ducati 750ss ... your bike is classified as a lightweight bike, and that's exactly where you should be practicing. Taking that bike out in 600, or even worse 750+ practice would be not a good idea. Even if you were an exceptionally fast novice rider and carried fast corner speed, closing speeds on the front stretch would not be pretty. The fast novice 600 riders at this time of the year (end of the season) are going to be running 1:19's at Summit (that's what our rider Chad has been running to win novice 600 races). - Roach On Mon, 2003-09-15 at 15:19, George.Cole@XXXXXX wrote: > I would practice with the fastest group. This should push you to ride a > little > faster. > > George > > >>> Laura Roach 09/15/03 02:28PM >>> > > > Since my 750ss qualifies in 1) 750cc, 3) Lightweight & 4) 600cc (in > > SuperSport class), do I get to practice 3 times? or is it simply just > 1 > > session per rider? > > If you only have one bike, you only get one practice session...it's your > choice as to which group you want to practice in. > > Laura > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 15 18:39:26 2003 Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:39:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Laura's new street ride To: Laura Roach , ScooterFZR@XXXXXX, roach@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Laura Roach wrote: > > > Kewl. Very nice. Can I take it for a test spin Laura? > ;-) > > > > Scooter > > LOL! Now that she's actually back in my hands...I'm not > letting her out of > my hands! ;) > > I did, however, just take her for a spin. DAMN! That > bike is fun!!!! Watch > out, kids, I'm back on the streets! laura: is it possible you live near me now? (20817) i thought i saw you walking down my street recently!?! if so, guard that puppy with your life! i had my 900rr stolen from right out in front of my condo. brian, nice work! __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 15 19:22:26 2003 Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 19:36:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Laura's new street ride On Mon, 15 Sep 2003, Laura Roach wrote: > LOL! Now that she's actually back in my hands...I'm not letting her out of > my hands! ;) > > I did, however, just take her for a spin. DAMN! That bike is fun!!!! Watch > out, kids, I'm back on the streets! > > LAR Laura, congrats on the bike! Brian did a killer job, it looks awesome. Do you guys have any add'l pics? -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 15 19:50:03 2003 From: "Laura Roach" To: "Tom Gimer" , , , Subject: Re: Laura's new street ride Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 19:46:49 -0400 > laura: is it possible you live near me now? (20817) i > thought i saw you walking down my street recently!?! if > so, guard that puppy with your life! i had my 900rr stolen > from right out in front of my condo. I don't think we live near each other...I'm in 20120...Centreville. :) But lately our neighborhood has had some spurts of crime, so don't worry, she's guarded by a rottweiler and a 9mm. And, living next to a police officer makes me feel a little better, too. ;) LAR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 15 19:51:42 2003 From: "Laura Roach" To: "Wayne Edelen" , Subject: Re: Laura's new street ride Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 19:48:31 -0400 > > LAR > > Laura, congrats on the bike! Brian did a killer job, it looks awesome. > Do you guys have any add'l pics? Thanks, Wayne! No additional pics as of yet, but maybe we can have a bike night soon and we can take more. :) Also, a good friend of ours just bought his first bike (we convinced him it was better than all the money he spends on racing the skip barber series), so he's looking to meet some good people to ride with. Laura From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 15 19:57:36 2003 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Laura's new street ride (Gimer's Ride) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 19:45:25 -0400 When did the RR get stolen? Any type of locks or security on it? >From: Tom Gimer >To: Laura Roach , ScooterFZR@XXXXXX, >roach@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: Laura's new street ride >Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:39:18 -0700 (PDT) > >laura: is it possible you live near me now? (20817) i >thought i saw you walking down my street recently!?! if >so, guard that puppy with your life! i had my 900rr stolen >from right out in front of my condo. _________________________________________________________________ Fast, faster, fastest: Upgrade to Cable or DSL today! https://broadband.msn.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 15 20:44:50 2003 From: "Mobacc" To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: Hurricane Bike Protection in DC? Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:43:21 -0400 From: Larry Larson There's plenty of room in the garages in Crystal City for anyone near there. email me at larson@XXXXXX or call 703.306.2681 (11-7pm, cell 703.608.9646 if you need directions. *****Yes for garages vice street (where bikes may move, other flotsam and jetsam will fly). Sorry my building can't help with space. A caution -- garage flooding (power out, rain, river surge). Bill S. / DC '99 VN750 > Hmmm. I may be helpful afterwards if roads get sketchy. Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 15 20:47:27 2003 From: "lisagoddard" To: , "'DC Cycles'" Subject: 48 messages Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:47:00 -0400 Subject: 48 Message! From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 15 Sep 2003 09:48:01 -0400 Jeeze, didn't any of you ride this weekend? It was beautiful or as I tell folks here, every day is a great day for a ride :-) Carl No riding for me until I heal and get a new helmet! Lisa From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 15 22:29:09 2003 From: "Gary Foreman" To: "'DC Cycles'" Subject: Garage Maha... Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 22:29:34 -0400 Okay, I was just going to epoxy the floor...got a little carried away :-) http://gwfweb.com/house/pages/030908.htm Gary From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 15 23:02:14 2003 Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 23:02:38 -0400 To: "Gary Foreman" , "'DC Cycles'" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Garage Maha... At 10:29 PM 9/15/03 -0400, Gary Foreman wrote: >Okay, I was just going to epoxy the floor...got a little carried away :-) > >http://gwfweb.com/house/pages/030908.htm Very nice! What did you use? -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 15 23:07:45 2003 From: "Gary Foreman" To: "'DC Cycles'" Subject: RE: Garage Maha... Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 23:08:10 -0400 Rustoleum EpoxyShield Garage Floor Coating. About $55 a kit. Took me 3 kits as I have 630 Sq. Ft. Had about 1/2 Gal left, but once mixed you have to use it. -----Original Message----- From: Mike Bartman [mailto:omni@XXXXXX] Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 11:03 PM To: Gary Foreman; 'DC Cycles' Subject: Re: Garage Maha... At 10:29 PM 9/15/03 -0400, Gary Foreman wrote: >Okay, I was just going to epoxy the floor...got a little carried away >:-) > >http://gwfweb.com/house/pages/030908.htm Very nice! What did you use? -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 15 23:28:28 2003 Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:28:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Larry Larson Subject: Re: Idiots on 270 today To: Paul Wilson , dc-cycles list --- Paul Wilson wrote: > Thanks Larry. I see someone else knows how to use Google > or similar to get > the straight poop, rather than merely extemporizing and > sliding into > error.... Imagine if more people did this on DCC, why it > might lead to > something dangerous, like enlightenment. ;-) The great thing is that you always learn something while you're doing it. I had no idea they were invented way back in 1953, for example. The bad thing is that you're liable to spend all day going off on nice, informative tangents -- sort of like looking up a single word in the OED, which I've never been able to do. "Betcha can't eat just one." Aslo like the MacPherson struts thread -- seems as though MacPherson is spelled every way imaginable in various engineering publications. And welcome back, Paul. 8;) -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 16 00:16:53 2003 Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 00:17:13 -0400 To: "Gary Foreman" , "'DC Cycles'" From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: Garage Maha... At 11:08 PM 9/15/03 -0400, Gary Foreman wrote: >Rustoleum EpoxyShield Garage Floor Coating. About $55 a kit. Took me 3 >kits as I have 630 Sq. Ft. Had about 1/2 Gal left, but once mixed you have >to use it. Thanks for the info! Anything you learned about putting it on that might be useful if someone else did it to their floor? It does look really nice... -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 16 06:43:12 2003 Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 06:35:13 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Mike Bartman CC: Gary Foreman , "'DC Cycles'" Subject: Re: Garage Maha... Mike Bartman wrote: > At 11:08 PM 9/15/03 -0400, Gary Foreman wrote: > >Rustoleum EpoxyShield Garage Floor Coating. About $55 a kit. Took me 3 > >kits as I have 630 Sq. Ft. Had about 1/2 Gal left, but once mixed you have > >to use it. > > Thanks for the info! > > Anything you learned about putting it on that might be useful if someone > else did it to their floor? It does look really nice... > > -- Mike B. Really nice? Sheesh, I've seen hospital ORs that weren't as nice. I'd love to do my floor like that but then... Yeah, I'd catch crap because the garage floor looked nicer than the house floors, and Milady would make me keep the *nice* floor clean! Question for Gary - is the surface fairly skid proof when wet (water)? Or do you have to add fine sand like we use to do for boat cockpit floor paints. With 550 sq feet I'd be looking at 3 kits too, and way more than 4 hours to prep the floor. Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 16 07:36:18 2003 Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 04:36:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Laura's new street ride To: Laura Roach , ScooterFZR@XXXXXX, roach@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Laura Roach wrote: > > laura: is it possible you live near me now? (20817) i > > thought i saw you walking down my street recently!?! > if > > so, guard that puppy with your life! i had my 900rr > stolen > > from right out in front of my condo. > > I don't think we live near each other...I'm in > 20120...Centreville. :) that's odd.... my memory is pretty darn good. i figured the tall guy with "you" was brian. it was a few weeks ago. must've been someone else i've only briefly met. > But lately our neighborhood has had some spurts of crime, > so don't worry, > she's guarded by a rottweiler and a 9mm. And, living next > to a police > officer makes me feel a little better, too. ;) ah.... must not've been you guys, because there were tie-dye shirts involved. cops and tie-dyes don't mix that well in my experience... :) welcome back to street riding.... __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 16 08:57:49 2003 From: "Rob Keiser" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Laura's new street ride..Bike Night? Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 08:46:08 -0400 Another Bike Night? I'd be up for that! I'll be there with an empty memory card, too! Rob '98 VFR800 From: "Laura Roach" To: "Wayne Edelen" , Subject: Re: Laura's new street ride Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 19:48:31 -0400 > > LAR > > Laura, congrats on the bike! Brian did a killer job, it looks awesome. > Do you guys have any add'l pics? Thanks, Wayne! No additional pics as of yet, but maybe we can have a bike night soon and we can take more. :) Also, a good friend of ours just bought his first bike (we convinced him it was better than all the money he spends on racing the skip barber series), so he's looking to meet some good people to ride with. Laura _________________________________________________________________ Compare Cable, DSL or Satellite plans: As low as $29.95. https://broadband.msn.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 16 09:01:10 2003 From: "Rob Keiser" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Laura's new street ride Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:01:01 -0400 With those three layers of protection, you should be ok! But with a nice ride like that, it never hurts to be prepared. If anyone else is looking for a loyal house protector, in the Rottie breed, let me know. I volunteer for the MD-Nova Rottie Rescue and we have a number of pups that need homes with good parents. http://www.md-novarotties.org/ Rob '98 VFR800 From: "Laura Roach" To: "Tom Gimer" , , , Subject: Re: Laura's new street ride Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 19:46:49 -0400 > laura: is it possible you live near me now? (20817) i > thought i saw you walking down my street recently!?! if > so, guard that puppy with your life! i had my 900rr stolen > from right out in front of my condo. I don't think we live near each other...I'm in 20120...Centreville. :) But lately our neighborhood has had some spurts of crime, so don't worry, she's guarded by a rottweiler and a 9mm. And, living next to a police officer makes me feel a little better, too. ;) LAR _________________________________________________________________ Compare Cable, DSL or Satellite plans: As low as $29.95. https://broadband.msn.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 16 09:38:50 2003 Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 06:38:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Weaver Subject: Re: Garage Maha... To: "William J. Huson" , Mike Bartman Cc: Gary Foreman , "'DC Cycles'" Bill, I don't see Gary's response yet, so here's what I know (not having done the project yet, but planning to): It's not very slip-proof if you just use the basic kit. With most of the epoxy floor coatings, you can buy a seperate batch of "non-slip additive," sort of like sand, that you add to the epoxy just before you apply it to the floor. Sounds the same as the boat kits you're familiar with. I have a two car garage I'm going to do this on at some point. I have to do it soon if I'm going to this year, though, because the kits I've seen require something like at least 65-70 degrees fahrenheit in order for the epoxy to cure properly. The curing part is the big pain in the ass too* - you generally have to wait 72 hours before you can park anything on it, 24 hours before you can walk on it. * besides the REAL pain in the ass, of course, which is getting all the accumulated crap off the floor to begin with. Chris Weaver --- "William J. Huson" wrote: > Question for Gary - is the surface fairly skid proof > when wet (water)? Or do you > have to add fine sand like we use to do for boat > cockpit floor paints. With 550 > sq feet I'd be looking at 3 kits too, and way more > than 4 hours to prep the > floor. > > Bill > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 16 10:23:14 2003 From: "Wesleyan Hsu" To: "'DC Cycles'" Subject: RE: Garage Maha... Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 10:22:57 -0400 Wow...very impressive! I am currently working on finishing the walls in my garage. I have to sand, paint, and then all of the shelving will go up. I'd really love to finish the floor. Another friend told me about this product, but you're the first person I've heard from who's actually used it. Please keep us posted on how well it holds up over time. Another friend of mine used a different product (I don't recall off the top of my head). He claims he followed the instructions to a "T", but the paint is lifting like crazy. Either the product isn't very good, or he didn't prep the floor well enough. Because of his experience, I'm leery of painting the floor myself. That's a lot of time and effort to invest just to have it lift. I'm jealous... Wes Hsu > -----Original Message----- > From: Gary Foreman [mailto:lists@XXXXXX] > Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 10:30 PM > To: 'DC Cycles' > Subject: Garage Maha... > > Okay, I was just going to epoxy the floor...got a little > carried away :-) > > http://gwfweb.com/house/pages/030908.htm From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 16 10:23:25 2003 Content-return: allowed Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 14:18:25 +0000 From: "Weaver, Sally" Subject: Laura's new street ride To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" , "'laura@XXXXXX'" , "'roach@XXXXXX'" _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Beautiful restoration, Brian! So, Laura...when are we having a group ride? :^) Sally From: "Laura Roach" : I did, however, just take her for a spin. DAMN! That bike is fun!!!! Watch out, kids, I'm back on the streets! LAR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 16 10:43:49 2003 Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 10:43:30 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: laura@XXXXXX, roach@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Laura's new street ride X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 Party pooper. :-( Scooter In a message dated 9/15/2003 5:57:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, laura@XXXXXX writes: > > > > > Kewl. Very nice. Can I take it for a test spin Laura? ;-) > > > > Scooter > > LOL! Now that she's actually back in my hands...I'm not letting her out of > my hands! ;) > > I did, however, just take her for a spin. DAMN! That bike > is fun!!!! Watch > out, kids, I'm back on the streets! > > LAR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 16 10:45:57 2003 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: March of Dimes Annual RIDE Motorcycle Event Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 10:45:48 -0400 October 5 March of Dimes Annual RIDE Motorcycle Event Starts and finishes at J-Koons Pontiac-GMC, 2050 Chain Bridge Road, Vienna, VA. 8am registration, 9am ride start. $30 minimum donation per rider and per passenger, each motorcyclist is encouraged to raise $200. A structured uniform motorcycle ride that covers 150-miles of Northern Virginia's scenic countryside. Features breakfast and lunch catered with live bands, raffles, vendors, a poker run and more. Prizes offered for top fundraising clubs and riders. 1-800-326-BABY. _________________________________________________________________ Need more e-mail storage? Get 10MB with Hotmail Extra Storage. http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 16 10:48:41 2003 From: "Laura Roach" To: "Rob Keiser" , Subject: Re: Laura's new street ride Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 10:44:40 -0400 > If anyone else is looking for a loyal house protector, in the Rottie breed, > let me know. I volunteer for the MD-Nova Rottie Rescue and we have a number > of pups that need homes with good parents. > > http://www.md-novarotties.org/ > > Rob > '98 VFR800 I was looking at their site the other day and fell in love with one of the rotties on there, but unfortunately, until we get a bigger house (or less motorcycles in the house. LOL) no more dogs for us. :( LAR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 16 11:10:30 2003 From: "Laura Roach" To: "Weaver, Sally" , , Subject: Re: Laura's new street ride Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 10:30:58 -0400 > _ _ _ _ > .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. > (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) > > > Beautiful restoration, Brian! So, Laura...when are we having a group ride? > :^) > > Sally I agree, Sally! We definitely need to get a group ride in before I put the bike away for the winter. I'll see if I can organize something. :) Laura From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 16 11:34:25 2003 Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 08:34:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Laura's new street ride (Gimer's Ride) To: rich hall , dc-cycles@XXXXXX rich: this was not a recent theft.... it was a couple years ago. (it had a disk lock on it.) --- rich hall wrote: > When did the RR get stolen? > Any type of locks or security on it? > > >From: Tom Gimer > >To: Laura Roach , > ScooterFZR@XXXXXX, > >roach@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX > >Subject: Re: Laura's new street ride > >Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:39:18 -0700 (PDT) > > > >laura: is it possible you live near me now? (20817) i > >thought i saw you walking down my street recently!?! if > >so, guard that puppy with your life! i had my 900rr > stolen > >from right out in front of my condo. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 16 11:43:29 2003 Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:42:18 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Chris Weaver CC: Mike Bartman , Gary Foreman , "'DC Cycles'" Subject: Re: Garage Maha... HA! I'd need a front loader to make a dent in the garage crap. This just 5 years since Milady took action and ordered me to fill up a 30 cubic yard rolloff she'd had delivered to the driveway! Otto's Law: "The junk accumulates to fill the space available." Bill - collector :-) Chris Weaver wrote: > Bill, > > I don't see Gary's response yet, so here's what I know > (not having done the project yet, but planning to): > > It's not very slip-proof if you just use the basic > kit. With most of the epoxy floor coatings, you can > buy a seperate batch of "non-slip additive," sort of > like sand, that you add to the epoxy just before you > apply it to the floor. Sounds the same as the boat > kits you're familiar with. > > I have a two car garage I'm going to do this on at > some point. I have to do it soon if I'm going to this > year, though, because the kits I've seen require > something like at least 65-70 degrees fahrenheit in > order for the epoxy to cure properly. The curing part > is the big pain in the ass too* - you generally have > to wait 72 hours before you can park anything on it, > 24 hours before you can walk on it. > > * besides the REAL pain in the ass, of course, which > is getting all the accumulated crap off the floor to > begin with. > > Chris Weaver From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 16 12:04:18 2003 Subject: Good deals on Helments Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 12:04:11 -0400 From: "Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services" To: Group buy from www.R6messagenet.com For more info see http://pub114.ezboard.com/fyamahar6messagenetfrm33.showMessage?topicID=388.topic OGK - Based on 8 Helmets: (See additional info below for other qty's) FF-4 Solid = $265 Graphic = $290 Replicas = $320 FF3-GP All = $285 Aeroblade II Solid = $225 Graphics = $240 Additional info - For Qty of 10 take $30 off above prices, For Qty of 12 take $45 off the above prices Shark - Based on 8 Helmets: (See additional info below) EDIT: THE GB FOR SHARK HELMETS WILL NOW ONLY REQ 6. RSR Replicas = $464 (NOW - $449) Must = $450 (NOW - $435) Racer = $427 (NOW - $412) Summum = $408 (NOW - $393) RSV Replicas = $230 (NOW - $225) Bayle = $230 (NOW - $225) Solids = $185 (NOW - $180) RSF Replicas = $200 (NOW - $195) Optima = $180 (NOW - $175) Additional info - If we require 10 helmets I will do free shipping on these. Suomy - Based on 8 Helmets: (See below 16 qty pricing for additional info) Spec-1R Replicas = $385 Shipped Solids = $320 Shipped Gunwind Replicas = $320 Shipped Solids = $245 Shipped Based on 16 helmets: Spec-1R Replicas = $375 Shipped Solids = $310 Shipped Gunwind Replicas = $310 Shipped Solids = $235 Shipped HJC - Based on 8 Helmets: AC-11 ZEEK = $180 Solids = $150 Metallics = $155 Yikes(Yates) = $150 SHIPPING FOR ALL HELMETS ARE ONLY $7. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 16 12:46:14 2003 Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 12:45:50 -0400 From: Skip CC: "'DC Cycles'" Subject: Re: Garage Maha... Wesleyan Hsu wrote: [snip] > That's a lot of time and effort to > invest just to have it lift. the trick is the preparation... use Muriatic (hydrochloric) acid and scrub the hell out of it. take proper precautions when using acid... wear a good respirator. neutralize the acid when done with baking soda make sure the floor is completely dry before painting it let it cure properly. --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 16 13:28:38 2003 Subject: Re: Garage Maha... (floor coating) From: Brian Roach To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 16 Sep 2003 12:46:49 -0400 In researching flooring for our business, we came across a really cool thing that is awesome in the garage as well .. "Durabak" http://www.nonslipcoating.com/concrete.htm It's about $600 per 1000 sq feet, which means your average garage would be under $300. It's a paint/sealer with ground up used tires in it (and for the eco-minded, this is a good use for used tires). Even comes in lots of colors. - Roach > Chris Weaver wrote: > > > Bill, > > > > I don't see Gary's response yet, so here's what I know > > (not having done the project yet, but planning to): > > > > It's not very slip-proof if you just use the basic > > kit. With most of the epoxy floor coatings, you can > > buy a seperate batch of "non-slip additive," sort of > > like sand, that you add to the epoxy just before you > > apply it to the floor. Sounds the same as the boat > > kits you're familiar with. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 16 14:25:50 2003 From: "Jeff Wisecarver" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, Hipykilrs@XXXXXX Subject: Fire destroys UK motorcycle museum Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 14:24:39 -0400 ripped from another list. Just happened. Fire destroys motorcycle museum Business delegates helped rescue bikes A major fire has destroyed most of the National Motorcycle Museum near Birmingham. Some 400 vintage machines worth between )B£6m and £7m have been destroyed. Some bikes were moved to safety by delegates to a business meeting. The museum, at Bickenhill near Birmingham International Airport, was home to more than 700 vintage machines, many of them unique. The fire is believed to have destroyed more than 60% of the building. Traffic has built up on the A45 between Birmingham and Coventry and smoke is drifting across the nearby M42. Drivers say they can smell burning rubber and smoke. Dave Glenis from the West Midlands Fire Service said: "Most of the roof is involved in the fire. "We've probably got 10 fire engines here with more on the way, but the traffic is horrendous." It is not yet known how the fire started. _________________________________________________________________ Fast, faster, fastest: Upgrade to Cable or DSL today! https://broadband.msn.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 16 14:30:47 2003 Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:30:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Fire destroys UK motorcycle museum On Tue, 16 Sep 2003, Jeff Wisecarver wrote: > ripped from another list. Just happened. Yuck. Got a source on this? (AP, Reuters *spit*, UP?) Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 16 14:32:40 2003 Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:32:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Fire destroys UK motorcycle museum On Tue, 16 Sep 2003, Fish Flowers wrote: > Yuck. Got a source on this? (AP, Reuters *spit*, UP?) Found it: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hereford/worcs/3114410.stm Google news is your friend. Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 16 14:37:14 2003 Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 14:37:06 -0400 From: Skip CC: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Fire destroys UK motorcycle museum Fish Flowers wrote: > > On Tue, 16 Sep 2003, Jeff Wisecarver wrote: > > > ripped from another list. Just happened. > > Yuck. Got a source on this? (AP, Reuters *spit*, UP?) > > Fish. that's a damn shame. --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 16 16:29:42 2003 Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 16:29:35 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Eye before the storm? My lunchtime ride in Reston had absolutely the BEST weather I have seen all summer. I love the fall. I also love my ability to escape from 11am to 1pm to ride ;-) If the weather ends up nasty this weekend, I plan to wrench Saturday if anyone else needs some basic service done. My Manassas garage is always open. It doesn't have the fancy floor yet, but that too shall come in good time. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 16 16:39:53 2003 Subject: Ride home From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 16 Sep 2003 16:35:44 -0400 Ah yes. I left yesterday at 6:15pm or so and caught a nice 15 minute ride in the downpour. I also discovered just how much gas this GSXR will hold. 1.8 gallons. Running out of gas on HOV in the rain isn't much fun. I had to pull off to find the gas switch so I could put it on Reserve (rather than Prime). A quick stop in Shirlington for gas and I was on my way again, just a little damp :-) Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 16 16:50:00 2003 Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 13:49:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Ride home To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX 1.8???? Sorry that does not seem possible. Way too low. Anyone? --- Carl Schelin wrote: > Ah yes. I left yesterday at 6:15pm or so and caught > a nice 15 minute > ride in the downpour. I also discovered just how > much gas this GSXR will > hold. 1.8 gallons. Running out of gas on HOV in the > rain isn't much fun. > I had to pull off to find the gas switch so I could > put it on Reserve > (rather than Prime). A quick stop in Shirlington for > gas and I was on my > way again, just a little damp :-) > > Carl > ===== www.deanforamerica.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 16 16:54:36 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "dc-cycles list" Subject: Gatsos gotten Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 16:54:29 -0400 Over *700* speed cameras sabotaged nationwide. They are Mad - or Motorists Against Detection - and are dedicated to destroying the tools that help to keep roads safe Stephen Khan Sunday September 7, 2003 The Observer They are the black knights of the road; balaclava-wearing highway hitmen out to burn, bomb, decapitate and dismember. But drivers need not fear, for it is speed cameras that this growing band of rebels are after. Up and down the country, the tools used to keep roads safe are being ripped down, blown up and even shot apart as part of a campaign orchestrated by a gang of web-surfing outlaws. They threaten to become the most popular gang of criminals since Robin Hood and his Merry Men stalked the countryside. Full story here - http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,1037031,00.html Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 16 17:10:20 2003 Subject: Re: Ride home From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 16 Sep 2003 17:06:10 -0400 Ah, my mistake. In my dyslexic state I read the 9 as a g. Actually after re-reading, a fillup was 3.412 G rather than 1.809(g :-) 619 and 619 (arr, I mean 916. I thought 619..916 and typed 619) are the same. Much better. Carl On Tue, 2003-09-16 at 16:49, Mark Kitchell wrote: > 1.8???? > > Sorry that does not seem possible. Way too low. > > Anyone? > > --- Carl Schelin wrote: > > Ah yes. I left yesterday at 6:15pm or so and caught > > a nice 15 minute > > ride in the downpour. I also discovered just how > > much gas this GSXR will > > hold. 1.8 gallons. Running out of gas on HOV in the > > rain isn't much fun. > > I had to pull off to find the gas switch so I could > > put it on Reserve > > (rather than Prime). A quick stop in Shirlington for > > gas and I was on my > > way again, just a little damp :-) > > > > Carl > > > > > ===== > www.deanforamerica.com > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 16 17:33:44 2003 Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 17:33:41 -0400 To: Troutman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Eye before the storm? At 04:29 PM 9/16/03 -0400, Troutman wrote: >My lunchtime ride in Reston had absolutely the BEST weather I have seen all >summer. I love the fall. I also love my ability to escape from 11am to >1pm to ride ;-) I'll be trying that once I get the bike...maybe later this week or early next week. We'll see... >If the weather ends up nasty this weekend, It seems likely to be pretty gruesome Thursday afternoon through sometime late Friday. The weekend might be ok though...depends how Isabel moves. At the moment they have it scheduled to hit here late Thursday afternoon. On a hopeful note, it's dropped to a Cat 2...though the Gulf Stream may change that. -- Mike **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 16 17:41:09 2003 Subject: Re: Eye before the storm? From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 16 Sep 2003 17:37:01 -0400 On Tue, 2003-09-16 at 17:33, Mike Bartman wrote: > At 04:29 PM 9/16/03 -0400, Troutman wrote: > >My lunchtime ride in Reston had absolutely the BEST weather I have seen all > >summer. I love the fall. I also love my ability to escape from 11am to > >1pm to ride ;-) > > I'll be trying that once I get the bike...maybe later this week or early > next week. We'll see... > > >If the weather ends up nasty this weekend, > > It seems likely to be pretty gruesome Thursday afternoon through sometime > late Friday. The weekend might be ok though...depends how Isabel moves. > At the moment they have it scheduled to hit here late Thursday afternoon. > The powers that be (well, here in the office) are considering making the building dark by 2pm on Thursday and letting us bail (out). > On a hopeful note, it's dropped to a Cat 2...though the Gulf Stream may > change that. > > -- Mike > > **************************************************************************** > * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * > * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * > * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * > *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* > * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * > **************************************************************************** > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 16 18:09:32 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Mark Kitchell , Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Ride home Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 18:11:51 -0500 My Hawk GT with the tiny tank held 3.4 gallons with reserve. Rob -- Rob Sharp SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer ---------- Original Message ----------- From: Mark Kitchell To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Sent: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 13:49:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Ride home > 1.8???? > > Sorry that does not seem possible. Way too low. > > Anyone? > > --- Carl Schelin wrote: > > Ah yes. I left yesterday at 6:15pm or so and caught > > a nice 15 minute > > ride in the downpour. I also discovered just how > > much gas this GSXR will > > hold. 1.8 gallons. Running out of gas on HOV in the > > rain isn't much fun. > > I had to pull off to find the gas switch so I could > > put it on Reserve > > (rather than Prime). A quick stop in Shirlington for > > gas and I was on my > > way again, just a little damp :-) > > > > Carl > > > > ===== > www.deanforamerica.com > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ------- End of Original Message ------- From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 16 18:51:57 2003 Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:06:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Eye before the storm? On Tue, 16 Sep 2003, Troutman wrote: > My lunchtime ride in Reston had absolutely the BEST weather I have seen all > summer. I love the fall. I also love my ability to escape from 11am to > 1pm to ride ;-) I rode yesterday and today. Besides the brief storm yesterday while heading past 66 on the beltway around 6pm(?), it was nice. Today was absolutely perfect. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 16 18:56:11 2003 Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 18:55:48 -0400 From: Dale Horstman To: Paul Wilson CC: dc-cycles list Subject: Re: Gatsos gotten Paul Wilson wrote: > http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,1037031,00.html 'bout time they had a backlash against those things... :) -- Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark) Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX '98 Concours - BugSlayer Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth '99 Concours - Grape Nehi CM #001 NRA IBA COG '82 GS850G - Neat old bike The Mason Dixon 20-20 Endurance Rally: The Games People Play Come join us in 2004: http://www.masondixon20-20.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 16 20:43:17 2003 Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 17:42:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Adam Reinhardt Subject: Re: Ride Home To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX The only way I can see your GSXR having a 1.8gal tank capacity is if some one at some point used POR-15 or Kreem to re-line tank and did a really poor job, in effect sealing off part of the tank from the main chamber. Adam Reinhardt __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 16 21:31:51 2003 From: "Gary Foreman" To: "'DC Cycles'" Subject: RE: Garage Maha...The Details Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 21:32:17 -0400 Many asked, so here you go. I was first looking at a product called U-Coat-It. It looks good, but the materials for my garage would have cost $750. That's a lot of track days :-) So I used Rust-Oleum EpoxyShield Garage Coating. http://www.rustoleum.com It is impervious to gas, oil, brake fluid. I did a lot of research, and even had a neighbor who did it so I could see the results first hand. BTW, he used the tan. I think the gray looks MUCH nicer. It was purchased at Lowes for $55 a kit and each kit covers about 250 sq. ft. Floor Prep: First I scrubbed down with Simple Green. This removes any oil. Double rinse and squeegee. Then I used the cleaner that came with the kit (powder, mixed with water and has a mild citric based acid in it), and sprinkled it with a watering can over the entire floor in sections, scrubbing and rinsing as I go. I then rinsed twice again. I let it dry overnight. The next morning, I used epoxy concrete patch and filled in some of the air holes from when the floor was poured. This stuff sets in 5 minutes. I waited an hour and sanded it even to the floor. At about noon that day, I mixed the first gallon. It says to start cutting in the edging after 30 minutes and rolling on after 60 minutes (to let the epoxy activate). I talked to Rust-Oleum and the tech told me to start edging immediately and roll on after 20 minutes in the temps we had (80's). When the first can is down to half, mix the next can so it can set up. You want to work in 4x4' sections keeping a wet edge. Sprinkle the flakes in as you go. Total time to roll on was only about 1.5 hours. That included edging. You won't be disappointed! The garage even feels different. You don't feel like you are walking in dirt all the time. Also the dust from the concrete has stopped! You can mix 200 grit mica in the paint for no slip, but if you do you can't use the colored flakes as they will sit on top of the grit. The chips actually give it some grip. Hope this helps! Feel free to ask any questions. PS, it comes with a video. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 16 21:33:37 2003 Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 21:32:56 -0400 (EDT) From: jdonovan@XXXXXX To: Gary Foreman cc: "'DC Cycles'" Subject: Re: Garage Maha... On Mon, 15 Sep 2003, Gary Foreman wrote: > Okay, I was just going to epoxy the floor...got a little carried away :-) > > http://gwfweb.com/house/pages/030908.htm > I did my garage floor about a month ago... and it looks awsome too. The center stand on the bike is making marks on the floor, and 'scratching' some paint away, but not too bad. I expect I'd need to recoat every few years, but the bike goes on/off the stand once a day, as I commute on it... so a 'normal' garage would probably see alot less wear. The rustolem product is fairly decent, as a few other people have pointed out prep is the key. I pressure washed, and then double-strength acid washed and scrubbed with a bristle brush, and then pressure washed the residue off... then painted. The product needs 7 days before vehicle traffic. really I'm quite happy with how it turned out, and would/will do it again in the next home I live in. -John From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 17 09:20:40 2003 From: To: "Dc-Cycles \(E-mail\)" Subject: Loudoun Motorsports Trackday Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 09:18:56 -0400 Don't forget about the up coming trackday at Summit Point's Main course on October 6th, 2004. This event is being hosted by www.loudounmotorsports.com and event registration forms can be obtained from them directly. (703) 777-1652 Hope to see you all there! -- Thanks!! Jay Goddard 1996 ZX-11 FOR SALE 1990 RC30, 2000 DRZ 400E 1995 VFR750F, 1997 GSXR600 301-340-0886 Jay@XXXXXX http://www.MotorcycleLeatherExchange.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 17 11:35:24 2003 Reply-To: wayne@XXXXXX From: "wayne@XXXXXX" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Accident in Ohio Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 11:35:16 -0400 http://www.wcpo.com/news/2003/local/09/13/motorcycleax.html Someone on the 'Busa board said they heard speculation that the driver had fallen asleep at the wheel, but it sounds like the cause is still under investigation. It's likely a younger driver, based on the giant wing on the back of the car. Very sad. :-( -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 17 11:55:33 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: wayne@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Accident in Ohio Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 11:55:31 -0500 So much for the old adage, safety in numbers. Rob -- Rob Sharp SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer ---------- Original Message ----------- From: "wayne@XXXXXX" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Sent: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 11:35:16 -0400 Subject: Accident in Ohio > http://www.wcpo.com/news/2003/local/09/13/motorcycleax.html > > Someone on the 'Busa board said they heard speculation that the > driver had fallen asleep at the wheel, but it sounds like the cause > is still under investigation. It's likely a younger driver, based > on the giant wing on the back of the car. > > Very sad. :-( > > -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > mail2web - Check your email from the web at > http://mail2web.com/ . ------- End of Original Message ------- From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 17 12:51:05 2003 Subject: Re: Loudoun Motorsports Trackday Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 11:37:00 -0500 From: To: , FYI, someone that works at Loudoun used my credit card info (from last years event registration) to charge up over $ 500.00. George >>> redbelly@XXXXXX 09/17/03 09:18AM >>> Don't forget about the up coming trackday at Summit Point's Main course on October 6th, 2004. This event is being hosted by www.loudounmotorsports.com and event registration forms can be obtained from them directly. (703) 777-1652 Hope to see you all there! -- Thanks!! Jay Goddard 1996 ZX-11 FOR SALE 1990 RC30, 2000 DRZ 400E 1995 VFR750F, 1997 GSXR600 301-340-0886 Jay@XXXXXX http://www.MotorcycleLeatherExchange.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 17 13:30:15 2003 Subject: Re: Loudoun Motorsports Trackday From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 17 Sep 2003 13:26:02 -0400 On Wed, 2003-09-17 at 12:37, George.Cole@XXXXXX wrote: > FYI, someone that works at Loudoun used my credit card info (from last > years > event registration) to charge up over $ 500.00. > That sucks. Did you ever find out who it was (and take him/her for a "drag")? > George > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 17 13:38:11 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: "'DCCycles'" Subject: garage space for the storm Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 13:40:32 -0400 There appears to be enough room in my garage to squeeze 1 more bike in, if anyone needs it. In Alexandria. Mike 96 VFR 88 Hawk 76 CB400F From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 17 13:52:16 2003 Subject: Re: Loudoun Motorsports Trackday Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 12:52:00 -0500 From: To: , Nope, but my credit card took all the charges off. All the purchases were internet transactions, one was with Symantec for a $ 100 online suite of security tools. I called Symantec and asked them who I was supplying the software for, they would not give out the info. George >>> Carl Schelin 09/17/03 01:26PM >>> On Wed, 2003-09-17 at 12:37, George.Cole@XXXXXX wrote: > FYI, someone that works at Loudoun used my credit card info (from last > years > event registration) to charge up over $ 500.00. > That sucks. Did you ever find out who it was (and take him/her for a "drag")? > George > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 17 14:05:33 2003 Reply-To: wayne@XXXXXX From: "wayne@XXXXXX" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Credit Card Fraud (was Loudoun Motorsports Trackday) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 14:05:22 -0400 That sucks, George. Did you contact the police and have them contact Symantec? I recently had my Amex and Visa check card stolen while I was at my gym. The thief quickly charged $2200 at Best Buy and several stores at Montgomery Mall. No traceable transactions, unfortunately :-\ It was a minor PITA, since I had to get a new ATM/check card and a new Amex. But my bank and Amex both credited my account very quickly. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ Original Message: ----------------- From: George.Cole@XXXXXX Nope, but my credit card took all the charges off. All the purchases were internet transactions, one was with Symantec for a $ 100 online suite of security tools. I called Symantec and asked them who I was supplying the software for, they would not give out the info. George -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 17 14:30:35 2003 Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 14:30:34 -0400 To: wayne@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Accident in Ohio At 11:35 AM 9/17/03 -0400, wayne@XXXXXX wrote: >http://www.wcpo.com/news/2003/local/09/13/motorcycleax.html >It's likely a younger driver, based on the giant wing on >the back of the car. Article said he was 18. Asleep, fiddling with the radio, who knows? Inexperience is likely a factor. Maybe we should restrict driving/riding to those over ......47 to limit this sort of thing? -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 17 14:31:16 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: , , Subject: Re: Loudoun Motorsports Trackday Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 14:29:03 -0400 Aside from the miscreant who stole your CC #, how was the track day? Worth it? Are there pace riders, instructors, track monitors, corner workers provided? I'm interested in something fairly structured, not a free-for-all. Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org ----- Original Message ----- From: > FYI, someone that works at Loudoun used my credit card info (from last > years > event registration) to charge up over $ 500.00. > > George > > >>> redbelly@XXXXXX 09/17/03 09:18AM >>> > Don't forget about the up coming trackday at Summit Point's Main course > on > October 6th, 2004. > > This event is being hosted by www.loudounmotorsports.com and event > registration forms can be obtained from them directly. (703) 777-1652 > > Hope to see you all there! > -- > Thanks!! > Jay Goddard From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 17 14:33:54 2003 Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 14:33:22 -0400 To: , , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Loudoun Motorsports Trackday At 12:52 PM 9/17/03 -0500, George.Cole@XXXXXX wrote: >Nope, but my credit card took all the charges off. > >All the purchases were internet transactions, one was with Symantec for >a $ >100 online suite of security tools. I called Symantec and asked them who >I was >supplying the software for, they would not give out the info. So they are "aiding and abetting" a criminal by helping him/her hide? That doesn't sound wise... All you are asking for is the address they sent the product that you paid for to. That doesn't seem unreasonable. They took your money, they should tell you who they gave the product to, and that person should have no expectation that they wouldn't. -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 17 14:44:43 2003 Subject: Re: Credit Card Fraud (was Loudoun Motorsports Trackday) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 13:36:00 -0500 From: To: , No I didn't bother with the Police, I figured the internet was out of their jurisdiction. >>> wayne@XXXXXX 09/17/03 02:05PM >>> That sucks, George. Did you contact the police and have them contact Symantec? - From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 17 14:44:49 2003 Subject: Re: Loudoun Motorsports Trackday Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 13:44:00 -0500 From: To: , Oh the track day was fine, I got to run with the A group and basically had the track to myself, which was fine with me. I didn't pay much attn to the other groups IMO Nesba offers the best, safest and structured track days, but Loudon is the best deal for riding the big circuit. I only have a 400 now for track days and the big course is not as much fun when even VFR's motor away on the straights :o(. George >>> Paul Wilson 09/17/03 02:29PM >>> Aside from the miscreant who stole your CC #, how was the track day? Worth it? Are there pace riders, instructors, track monitors, corner workers provided? I'm interested in something fairly structured, not a free-for-all. Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org ----- Original Message ----- From: > FYI, someone that works at Loudoun used my credit card info (from last > years > event registration) to charge up over $ 500.00. > > George > > >>> redbelly@XXXXXX 09/17/03 09:18AM >>> > Don't forget about the up coming trackday at Summit Point's Main course > on > October 6th, 2004. > > This event is being hosted by www.loudounmotorsports.com and event > registration forms can be obtained from them directly. (703) 777-1652 > > Hope to see you all there! > -- > Thanks!! > Jay Goddard From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 17 14:47:06 2003 Subject: Re: Loudoun Motorsports Trackday Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 13:47:00 -0500 From: To: , , There were corner workers, control riders and ambulance (not sure about a track monitor?). I can't Imagine a free-for-all track day...that would be carnage George >>> Paul Wilson 09/17/03 02:29PM >>> Aside from the miscreant who stole your CC #, how was the track day? Worth it? Are there pace riders, instructors, track monitors, corner workers provided? I'm interested in something fairly structured, not a free-for-all. Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org ----- Original Message ----- From: > FYI, someone that works at Loudoun used my credit card info (from last > years > event registration) to charge up over $ 500.00. > > George > > >>> redbelly@XXXXXX 09/17/03 09:18AM >>> > Don't forget about the up coming trackday at Summit Point's Main course > on > October 6th, 2004. > > This event is being hosted by www.loudounmotorsports.com and event > registration forms can be obtained from them directly. (703) 777-1652 > > Hope to see you all there! > -- > Thanks!! > Jay Goddard From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 17 14:54:13 2003 Subject: Re: Loudoun Motorsports Trackday Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 13:53:00 -0500 From: To: , I am not sure they had a mailing address as this was a download type of transaction. The Symantec dude said they didn't want the liability if I went and killed the said individual (I might have roughed him up a little that's all) Since my CC company took care of the credit, I didn't bother with my investigation after that. But will not give Loudoun any business either or Symantec for that matter. George >>> Mike Bartman 09/17/03 02:33PM >>> - So they are "aiding and abetting" a criminal by helping him/her hide? That doesn't sound wise... All you are asking for is the address they sent the product that you paid for to. That doesn't seem unreasonable. They took your money, they should tell you who they gave the product to, and that person should have no expectation that they wouldn't. -- Mike Bartman ************************************************************************ **** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *----------------------------------------------------------------------- ---* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * ************************************************************************ **** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 17 14:57:59 2003 Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 14:50:22 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Loudoun Motorsports Trackday To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX George ponders the unthinkable: >I can't Imagine a free-for-all track day...that would >be carnage [Dave] Nah. It would be rush hour on the Beltway ! Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 17 15:03:26 2003 From: pam@XXXXXX To: George.Cole@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, omni@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Loudoun Motorsports Trackday Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 15:03:18 -0400 Doesn't the FBI get involved with fraud cases such as this? Or, was it small enough for them to classify under 'annoying'? Pam Sapyta George.Cole@XXXXXX writes: > I am not sure they had a mailing address as this was a download type of > transaction. The Symantec dude said they didn't want the liability if I > went > and killed the said individual (I might have roughed him up a little > that's > all) > > Since my CC company took care of the credit, I didn't bother with my > investigation after that. But will not give Loudoun any business either > or > Symantec for that matter. > > George > >>>> Mike Bartman 09/17/03 02:33PM >>> > - > So they are "aiding and abetting" a criminal by helping him/her hide? > That > doesn't sound wise... > > All you are asking for is the address they sent the product that you > paid > for to. That doesn't seem unreasonable. They took your money, they > should > tell you who they gave the product to, and that person should have no > expectation that they wouldn't. > > -- Mike Bartman > > ************************************************************************ > **** > * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation > Obliterated * > * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered > * > * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated > * > *----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---* > * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! > * > ************************************************************************ > **** > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 17 15:52:58 2003 Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 15:52:51 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: George.Cole@XXXXXX, cschelin@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Loudoun Motorsports Trackday X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 Call one of the bureaus that deal with credit card fraud and have them check into it. They'll find out who it was and help you out. They helped someone from my office out like that. Scooter In a message dated 9/17/2003 1:52:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time, George.Cole@XXXXXX writes: > > > Nope, but my credit card took all the charges off. > > All the purchases were internet transactions, one was with Symantec for > a $ > 100 online suite of security tools. I called Symantec and asked them who > I was > supplying the software for, they would not give out the info. > > George > > >>> Carl Schelin 09/17/03 01:26PM >>> > On Wed, 2003-09-17 at 12:37, George.Cole@XXXXXX wrote: > > FYI, someone that works at Loudoun used my credit card info (from last > > years > > event registration) to charge up over $ 500.00. > > > > That sucks. Did you ever find out who it was (and take > him/her for a > "drag")? > > > George > > > > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 17 16:32:54 2003 From: "Shigeru Honda" To: "dc-cycles" Subject: Re: Loudoun Motorsports Trackday Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 16:27:54 -0400 I attended Loudoun's track day back in June, the event itself was pretty good. I was in intermediate class and it wasn't crowded, lot of times I had the whole track for myself. I crashed during this event and there was an ambulance (didn't use it) and a truck to bring my bike back. Most of the control riders were helpful but some looked like they were just using the opportunity to practice and not looking after other riders. I won't be able to go this time... no more vacation days... work sux! Sorry to hear about the CC problem, I once received bunch of computer stuff I didn't order... I guess whoever stole my CC# forgot to change the address. Also had an incident someone changing my address on my bank account and ordering checks, get loans, sign up for CC... No $$ damage for me but PITA to deal with... --------------------- Shigeru Honda 98 SuperHawk (Street) 99 750 SS (Track) ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 2:47 PM Subject: Re: Loudoun Motorsports Trackday > There were corner workers, control riders and ambulance (not sure about > a > track monitor?). I can't Imagine a free-for-all track day...that would > be > carnage > > George > > >>> Paul Wilson 09/17/03 02:29PM >>> > Aside from the miscreant who stole your CC #, how was the track day? > Worth > it? > > Are there pace riders, instructors, track monitors, corner workers > provided? > I'm interested in something fairly structured, not a free-for-all. > > Paul in DC > 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > > > > > FYI, someone that works at Loudoun used my credit card info (from last > > years > > event registration) to charge up over $ 500.00. > > > > George > > > > >>> redbelly@XXXXXX 09/17/03 09:18AM >>> > > Don't forget about the up coming trackday at Summit Point's Main > course > > on > > October 6th, 2004. > > > > This event is being hosted by www.loudounmotorsports.com and event > > registration forms can be obtained from them directly. (703) 777-1652 > > > > Hope to see you all there! > > > -- > > Thanks!! > > Jay Goddard > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 17 19:29:47 2003 From: "lisagoddard" To: , "'DC Cycles'" Subject: Loudon track days Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 19:29:19 -0400 Sure, Loudoun is OK but I would highly recommend these guys instead: http://www.sportbiketracktime.com excellent instruction! Lisa Goddard From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 17 22:07:30 2003 Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 22:21:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: New upper clamp http://www.blueblackbusa.org/clamp/ I replaced the top clamp on my Hayabusa so that I can lower the bike for drag racing, instead of just cinching the front with a strap. This way the suspension can work a little instead of being bound up with the strap. I'll leave it around stock height for street, since I still love attacking the twisties. It looks like I should be able to lower it in about the same time as it takes me to lower the rear end. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 18 11:36:37 2003 Subject: Quiet ride... Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 11:36:24 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: Not a lot of bikes out there today. I didn't spot a single other rider from Seven Corners to Reston. Not a lot of cars, either, that sure made the commute pretty quick. Now I'm just hoping the ride to my storage unit/garage in Manassas is as uneventful! Robert From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 18 13:28:37 2003 From: "Laura Roach" To: "lisagoddard" , , "'DC Cycles'" Subject: Re: Loudon track days Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 13:19:44 -0400 > Sure, Loudoun is OK but I would highly recommend these guys instead: > > http://www.sportbiketracktime.com > > excellent instruction! > > Lisa Goddard Haven't tried them, but also want to HIGHLY recommend www.nesba.com. These guys are the best. Safest, most well run track days you will ever go to! Laura From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 18 17:14:41 2003 Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 17:28:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: New upper clamp > I replaced the top clamp on my Hayabusa so that I can lower the bike for > drag racing, instead of just cinching the front with a strap. This way > the suspension can work a little instead of being bound up with the strap. > > I'll leave it around stock height for street, since I still love attacking > the twisties. It looks like I should be able to lower it in about the > same time as it takes me to lower the rear end. So I'm sitting around today watching Isabel begin to drop rain and wind on the area and I decided to head out to the garage to play with my new top clamp. :-) http://www.blueblackbusa.org/091803 I started with the fork tubes .65" in the hole and ended up with them .26" out of the hole. I hope every one is doing well and your bikes are safe from the storm :-) -- Wayne - http://www.purplecar.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 22 23:47:13 2003 Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 19:35:06 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: Naughahide(sp?) Yep, faux leather material that use to be popular for hot rod upholstery and general household seat covers and the like. Back in the good ol' days, before Chinese cows made leather cheap, you could find it anywhere - 5 & 10 stores, hardware stores, and auto stores. Came in colors, with a fabric backing, embossed to a leather like appearance, or pleated in the 50s & 60s roll & pleat style. I need several yards and can't find it. HELP! Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 22 23:49:13 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Mail List down ? Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 16:51:18 -0500 Haven't seen a single DC-Cycle message today. List Server down? Everyone make it through the storm ok. My VFR did fine. Rob -- Rob Sharp SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 22 23:55:43 2003 Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 23:58:08 -0400 Subject: towing To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "garcia oliver" If anyone is interested in doing occasional motorcycle towing jobs, contact me. Please specify times/days it)B’s ok to call you (include your phone number and general location), what kind of vehicle (trailer, pickup, etc.) you use, and approximate price (by time and/or distance) you would charge to get a bike to DC, near the zoo. I will pass this on to people who call me asking about a tow. Thanks. --garcia "To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first, and call whatever you hit the target." From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 22 23:56:41 2003 Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 23:59:09 -0400 Subject: Bikes and parts wanted or for sale To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "garcia oliver" Hi)B…I’ve got a couple of bikes left that I want to either sell as-is or fix up. They both need some parts, so I)B’m either looking to buy a parts bike or (preferably) sell my bikes as )B“projects” or for parts. 1978 KZ400/440 (cruiser, chain drive). No title. Ran last summer (haven)B’t tried this year) but has air leak at intake rubbers and needs air filter. $150/ b.o. 1981 Virago 750 (cruiser, shaft drive). Only 8300 miles, needs exhaust, master cylinder, etc. Ran when parked, been sitting 2 years. Have title, keys, some extra parts, but probably best as parts bike. $250/b.o. Feel free to forward this. Thanks. --garcia " America wants to export democracy to other, less enlightened, parts of the world. This from a country where two candidates can run for President---and the one who gets the fewer votes wins." From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Sep 22 23:58:26 2003 Subject: Storm and Ride Report From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 20 Sep 2003 08:36:22 -0400 No problems down where I was. No power outage and a brief water outage. The neighbor lost a pear tree so we spent yesterday cutting it up and getting it to the dump. Then the water went out so no showers! The water came back later though. As far as the ride report. I finally got my Boise report finished but don't have enough space on Geocities to store it all. So I put just the trip out up for now. http://www.schelin.org/personal/boise/200308/index.html The links should be good up to through the 15th and I'll see if I have space to put up just the reports with no pictures for the rest of the trip. I may also pull the photo albums so I have enough space for the trip report. Hope you guys are all ok. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 00:01:10 2003 From: "Perry Coleman" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Everyone OK? Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 13:43:41 -0400 Things seem very quiet. I hope that everyone is OK, has power restored, etc. We made out pretty well: Lost the cap to the furnace chimney and were without power for about 40 hours. Otherwise, everything is pretty much OK. I saw a lot people out riding Saturday, but I wasn't that brave. We had too many dark intersections and assorted road spooge for my tastes. Perry _________________________________________________________________ Add MSN 8 Internet Software to your existing Internet access and enjoy patented spam protection and more. Sign up now! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/byoa From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 00:02:43 2003 Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 00:03:12 -0400 To: "William J. Huson" , "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Naughahide(sp?) At 07:35 PM 9/22/03 -0400, William J. Huson wrote: >Yep, faux leather material that use to be popular for hot rod upholstery >and general household seat covers and the like. Back in the good ol' >days, before Chinese cows made leather cheap, you could find it anywhere >- 5 & 10 stores, hardware stores, and auto stores. Came in colors, with >a fabric backing, embossed to a leather like appearance, or pleated in >the 50s & 60s roll & pleat style. > >I need several yards and can't find it. HELP! Yay!! The list is back up!!! Hope whoever runs this thing wasn't without power until just now...and that they didn't suffer any damage from the storm! As to your question: http://www.naugahyde.com/ That's the manufacturer's site...they have a sales office, but I suspect they will only want to deal with buyers of truckload quantities, but they may be able to put you in touch with a local distributor...or maybe send you some free samples that might be all you need! :^) If you want a national distributor that may have a branch, or maybe a retailer, near here (they have a distribution center in New Jersey), try: http://www.burchfabrics.com/naugahyde.htm The above was just found with a Google search, I don't know what these folks are like to deal with... -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 00:15:07 2003 Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 00:07:18 -0400 To: "Rob Sharp" , "DC-Cycles" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Mail List down ? At 04:51 PM 9/19/03 -0500, Rob Sharp wrote: >Haven't seen a single DC-Cycle message today. List Server down? Everyone >make it through the storm ok. The list appears to have been down until just a few minutes ago. I was getting bounces due to lack of server to receive them earlier today. I made it through the storm with almost no problems. Some small branches fell on the yard, the power was flaky for about 12 hours, and out for 3, during the storm, but other than that, no problems here. I was *really* lucky!! Spent Friday afternoon with my chainsaw helping neighbors re-open streets blocked by fallen trees and big branches after the county said it might be a week until they could get to them (they were around the next day though, as it turned out). We had several "crews" out working, and had the whole area driveable by mid-afternoon on Friday. I hope everyone else was as lucky, but I suspect that some weren't. I hope they are back to normal now at least! >My VFR did fine. Great! -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 00:19:33 2003 Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 09:57:04 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Erick Singley Subject: need muffler On the way home Wednesday , long story short, my muffler broke into two. The sound-matting/fiberglass/whatever is mostly gone, and I doubt I can repair it. Does anyone have an older muffler they'd like to sell me? It'd be fitting on a 74' CB-750 - 4 in 1 exhaust. If not, I'll check at the local salvage yard request page (http://www. neocycle.com/acers/md.html) (What was that old ad? "I'm not going to pay a lot for this muffler" :) We lost power for two days, no real damage (no real trees in our area) Thanks, Erick 74' cb-750 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 00:34:48 2003 Subject: Everyone ok? From: Brian Roach To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 19 Sep 2003 10:41:27 -0400 Not much to report from Centreville. Power is still on, only some flickering last night during the height of the storm. Looking out the front windows, there's lots of leaves everywhere, but it appears the trees in our neighborhood stood their ground. Also amusing ... the cable companies' ads about satellite "rain fade" really annoy me ... and now I can tell people that I didn't even lose signal during a Hurricane! - Roach From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 00:40:48 2003 Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 13:26:12 -0400 To: "'DC Cycles'" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Storm is over...everyone ok? Didn't get hit too bad up here near Rockville...anybody have real problems? Bikes ok? Other than a few small branches falling out of trees (max 2" diameter), and the power being flaky for about 12 hours (out completely for almost 3 hrs), there weren't any real effects from Isabel here. The neighborhood lost some big branches and trees that blocked streets until some neighbors got out their chainsaws and cleared them (you can really work up a sweat doing that I found! :^) County said it might be up to a week before they could get to it, so we just pitched in. County came around the next day of course... :^) Anybody still feeling effects? If so, what sort? Anything anyone else could help with? -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 02:03:17 2003 Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 01:03:07 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Sean Jordan Subject: My pics from the AMA Barber Motorsports weekend!!! Barber Motorsports is truly the finest and most beautiful racing facility in North America. The museum is even better. Never thought I'd see a Britten, or a Honda NR750. There were bikes even more rare, if you can believe it. Incredible. I was able to sit down and interview Giovanni Bussei and Eric Bostrom for a paper I'm writing this semester. (Speculation on the possible effects of the Spec Tire rule for WSC in 2004.) Both of them were very gracious and hospitable, and Eric was a genuinely nice guy. (He even remembered my name and said hey when he ran into me a few hours later!) Ben Bostrom and Miguel Duhamel both signed my CBR1000F; class acts, the lot of them. Cornerworking is a fun, cheap way to see and AMA race. (Free entrance, food, they pay you, and you get an unobtanium-to-the-public Hoy Pit Pass.) For those that cornerwork, try and do an AMA event some time. What a blast! The following pics aren't up to my usual standards of high-quality yet delightfully amateurish photography. I had to shoot the whole weekend with a small stack of disposable cameras. (Hilarity ensues....no, not really. Just a lot of bad pictures.) http://homepage.mac.com/eternity23/PhotoAlbum2.html http://homepage.mac.com/eternity23/PhotoAlbum3.html Anywho, just thought I'd share these with you kids. More to come. -Sean Jordan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 02:08:35 2003 Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 04:21:26 -0400 Subject: Italian Motofest reminder From: Bob McKeithen To: DC Cycles This week end. Check http://www.italianmotofest.com. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 02:20:37 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: "DCCycles" Subject: Isabel Aftermath Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 18:48:20 -0400 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec7974465a354aa375493555856590bdb687350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c I hope everyone weathered Isabel ok. At least it was nice for the clean up :-/ . We lost power for about 36 hours and just came back up earlier this afternoon. My chimney cap did manage to find it's way into the yard, right after it found it's way to my Exploder's hood... Some would say that's a good thing and I'm not sure whether I'm in that camp yet ;-) No moto damage here, neighbor lost a tree & I gained some firewood. Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 07:00:15 2003 Subject: New Bike From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 23 Sep 2003 06:56:07 -0400 Saturday we went to Motorcycle Factory Inc and bought Rita's new bike. 2004 Honda VL600CD (VLX Deluxe). Less than 1 mile on the odometer. We stopped by last night and picked it up. So now we have: 2004 Honda VLX 2002 Harley-Davidson FXSTI 1995 Suzuki GSXR 1976 Honda CB750 ???? Tallon Custom Frame Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 07:03:20 2003 Subject: Re: New Bike From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 23 Sep 2003 06:59:13 -0400 Oh, and the only complaint so far is that it's a deep candy apple red and she wanted purple. I told her that after she's dropped it a few times and is comfortable, we'll get it repainted :-) Carl On Tue, 2003-09-23 at 06:56, Carl Schelin wrote: > Saturday we went to Motorcycle Factory Inc and bought Rita's new bike. > 2004 Honda VL600CD (VLX Deluxe). Less than 1 mile on the odometer. We > stopped by last night and picked it up. > > So now we have: > > 2004 Honda VLX > 2002 Harley-Davidson FXSTI > 1995 Suzuki GSXR > 1976 Honda CB750 > ???? Tallon Custom Frame > > Carl > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 07:29:16 2003 From: "Rob Keiser" To: bhuson@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Naughahide(sp?) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 07:17:20 -0400 Bill, How about a place like Michael's, AC Moore, or Joanne Fabrics. They might have some of that. Worth a call at least. Rob '98 VFR800 From: "William J. Huson" To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: Naughahide(sp?) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 19:35:06 -0400 Yep, faux leather material that use to be popular for hot rod upholstery and general household seat covers and the like. Back in the good ol' days, before Chinese cows made leather cheap, you could find it anywhere - 5 & 10 stores, hardware stores, and auto stores. Came in colors, with a fabric backing, embossed to a leather like appearance, or pleated in the 50s & 60s roll & pleat style. I need several yards and can't find it. HELP! Bill _________________________________________________________________ Share your photos without swamping your Inbox. Get Hotmail Extra Storage today! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 07:47:03 2003 Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 08:00:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: New Bike On 23 Sep 2003, Carl Schelin wrote: > Oh, and the only complaint so far is that it's a deep candy apple red > and she wanted purple. I told her that after she's dropped it a few > times and is comfortable, we'll get it repainted :-) > > Carl ha! :-) Congrats to Rita on the new ride. -- Wayne From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 07:55:15 2003 Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 07:55:03 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: Rob Keiser , bhuson@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Naughahide(sp?) It's "Naugahyde," by the way, the tanned skin of "Made in the USA" domesticated Naugas. They are happy little Naugas 'cause their skins are shed, so there is no slaughtering involved. >>[Nauga 101: This is only an introduction to Nauga history (May be good for 3 semester hours of credit at your favorite 4-year college or university. Or maybe not.) There is more to come. Look for new articles on Naugas' culinary preferences, customs & traditions of Naugas around the world, and other Nauga facts & trivia!] The small chameleon-like animals known as Naugas? have long been known as the source of beautiful and durable fabrics that look like fine, soft leather. And since Naugas shed their hydes without harm to themselves, the fabrics they help make came to be known as Naugahyde?, The Cruelty Free Fabric?. Despite the popularity of these little animals and their hydes, little is known of their origins and how they first came to America.<< www.naugahyde.com Try any upholstery shop supply house. The stuff's common as dirt. Google brings up several suppliers. Paul in DC -----Original Message----- From: Rob Keiser Sent: Sep 23, 2003 7:17 AM To: bhuson@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Naughahide(sp?) Bill, How about a place like Michael's, AC Moore, or Joanne Fabrics. They might have some of that. Worth a call at least. Rob '98 VFR800 From: "William J. Huson" To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: Naughahide(sp?) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 19:35:06 -0400 Yep, faux leather material that use to be popular for hot rod upholstery and general household seat covers and the like. Back in the good ol' days, before Chinese cows made leather cheap, you could find it anywhere - 5 & 10 stores, hardware stores, and auto stores. Came in colors, with a fabric backing, embossed to a leather like appearance, or pleated in the 50s & 60s roll & pleat style. I need several yards and can't find it. HELP! Bill _________________________________________________________________ Share your photos without swamping your Inbox. Get Hotmail Extra Storage today! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 08:00:39 2003 From: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" To: "'Perry Coleman'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Everyone OK? Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 08:00:27 -0400 We did fine as well although we lost power 4pm on Thursday until yesterday evening. A tree missed my shed were the bike was by just a foot. -----Original Message----- From: Perry Coleman [mailto:perrycoleman@XXXXXX] Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 1:44 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Everyone OK? Things seem very quiet. I hope that everyone is OK, has power restored, etc. We made out pretty well: Lost the cap to the furnace chimney and were without power for about 40 hours. Otherwise, everything is pretty much OK. I saw a lot people out riding Saturday, but I wasn't that brave. We had too many dark intersections and assorted road spooge for my tastes. Perry _________________________________________________________________ Add MSN 8 Internet Software to your existing Internet access and enjoy patented spam protection and more. Sign up now! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/byoa From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 08:08:54 2003 Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 08:22:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: RE: Everyone OK? On Tue, 23 Sep 2003, Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS) wrote: > We did fine as well although we lost power 4pm on Thursday until yesterday > evening. A tree missed my shed were the bike was by just a foot. It was uneventful here in Ijamsville. A little wind and rain. No power outages or damage in my 'hood. I lost a single shingle. :-) I have friends that still have no power. One in Germantown, one in Ellicott City. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 09:39:29 2003 Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:38:13 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Perry Coleman CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Everyone OK? Not too bad in Annandale VA. Lost a ton of thick (chain saw required) branches from our huge pine trees. Tree fell on a nieghbor's car, trunk missed so the damage was minor. I was prepared to abate the flooding of my carport and garage but Isabel wimped out on the rain department. Last night was worse - something like 5"-6" of rain - a deluge. The sump pump assigned carport bail duty couldn't keep up and half the garage floor got wet. Bill Perry Coleman wrote: > Things seem very quiet. I hope that everyone is OK, has power restored, etc. > > We made out pretty well: Lost the cap to the furnace chimney and were > without power for about 40 hours. Otherwise, everything is pretty much OK. I > saw a lot people out riding Saturday, but I wasn't that brave. We had too > many dark intersections and assorted road spooge for my tastes. > > Perry From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 09:47:17 2003 Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:00:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: RE: Everyone OK? On Tue, 23 Sep 2003, Wayne Edelen wrote: > On Tue, 23 Sep 2003, Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS) wrote: > > > We did fine as well although we lost power 4pm on Thursday until yesterday > > evening. A tree missed my shed were the bike was by just a foot. > > It was uneventful here in Ijamsville. A little wind and rain. No power > outages or damage in my 'hood. I lost a single shingle. :-) Ok, I spoke too soon! The rains last night flooded the road where I live: http://www.purplecar.org/092303/ -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 09:48:55 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Perry Coleman" , Subject: Re: Everyone OK? Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:48:50 -0400 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Perry Coleman" > Things seem very quiet. I hope that everyone is OK, has power restored, etc. > > We made out pretty well: Lost the cap to the furnace chimney and were > without power for about 40 hours. Otherwise, everything is pretty much OK. I > saw a lot people out riding Saturday, but I wasn't that brave. We had too > many dark intersections and assorted road spooge for my tastes. > > Perry > Yeah, "dark" intersections. DC area cagers need a refresher course in the rules of the road. In the absence of any other traffic control device (like a stop sign) an inoperative completely dark traffic signal is to be treated as a 4-way stop. I was out riding around on Friday and Sat. Went to check on the office in Old Town Alexandria (OK except no power, so we got the day off). Then I went down to the Alexandria waterfront to see the amazing amounts of flotsam that washed up. Storm was largely uneventful in my 'hood. Nary a flicker of the lights (all electrical distribution underground, the way it ought to be everywhere) and the land line phones and DSL were unaffected. We lost the cable TV Thursday night and have yet to get it back up. Glad I'm not depending on them for internet service. I put in nearly a full day at the office on Thursday and rode home about 5:00pm. A bit windy, but not too bad. Needless to say, there was little traffic. :-) Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 09:55:43 2003 Subject: GSXR From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 23 Sep 2003 09:51:18 -0400 We were going to trade it in for Rita's bike but we just refinanced the house so we had a couple of bucks and they gave a tentative trade in value of $2000. I said no to that one. Sunday I drained the (mostly) black and green coolent and then _tried_ to refill it. Since the only opening mentioned in the less than helpful manual was the overflow, I tried it from there. After cleaning up the mess, I called Tim but he didn't know of any other place. The dealer had changed fluids for him. So I hit the 'net looking for some guidance but none were forthcoming. I broke out the #3 and #4 hex wrenches, the philips screwdriver and the #10 socket and removed the plastic. I traced the overflow tube back under the tank so the tank was removed next. And there it was. Under the front shelf for the tank was the radiator fill cap. I removed the rubber mount from the shelf and filled it up with 50/50. I put all the plastic back on and took her for a quick ride. It seemed to make a difference and I noted that it stopped surging at lights (it would idle at about 3k about two thirds of the time). While putting the plastic back, I found many of the screws were not original and that there were 10 or so missing. Any thoughts on where to get replacements? I know I can get some from Home Depot but some of the screws have collars (metal or rubber) and the missing ones are painted. Anyway, on my way out this morning, Rita asked if I was sure; why not take the car? My company will not pay for Thursday or Friday so I have to make up the 16 hours or take them as vacation time. This means I'm working 12 hour days this week so I want to be able to bail at 5pm or so. I have to be here at 6am which precludes VRE and I don't want to fight traffic so the bike's the best method. She claimed I liked riding the bikes more than the truck. Heh, she'll learn :-) Later, Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 09:58:45 2003 Subject: Re: Everyone OK? From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 23 Sep 2003 09:54:37 -0400 On Tue, 2003-09-23 at 09:48, Paul Wilson wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Perry Coleman" > > > > > Things seem very quiet. I hope that everyone is OK, has power restored, > etc. > > > > We made out pretty well: Lost the cap to the furnace chimney and were > > without power for about 40 hours. Otherwise, everything is pretty much OK. > I > > saw a lot people out riding Saturday, but I wasn't that brave. We had too > > many dark intersections and assorted road spooge for my tastes. > > > > Perry > > > Yeah, "dark" intersections. DC area cagers need a refresher course in the > rules of the road. In the absence of any other traffic control device (like > a stop sign) an inoperative completely dark traffic signal is to be treated > as a 4-way stop. > No doubt. I tried stopping at the first one on Independance and damn near got wiped out. I went ahead and treated the rest as "no signal" and the side roads as having a stop sign. Fortunately there wasn't anyone treating their roads as main road/no stopping. > I put in nearly a full day at the office on Thursday and rode home about > 5:00pm. A bit windy, but not too bad. Needless to say, there was little > traffic. :-) > I called in but was told the building was to be shut down at 11am so not to bother. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 10:02:19 2003 Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 07:02:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Thanks ScooterFZR To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Isabel Update: In my part of DC (Dupont/Adams Morgan) we were ok. A few big trees down, including a beautiful one on 18th St near the Trust for Historic Preservation building. However, unlike in the hinterlands, we have not lost power for 1 minute. Water too. I want to thank Scott (Scooter) for letting me use his underground garage for the storm. When I returned home to my building, I found a chimmney cap (heavy) right in the middle of my normal parking space. That was close. Mark ===== www.deanforamerica.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 10:05:18 2003 Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:04:49 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: rob@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Mail List down ? X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 Looks like Harry's power came back on. :-) Scooter In a message dated 9/19/2003 5:51:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rob@XXXXXX writes: > > > Haven't seen a single DC-Cycle message today. List Server > down? Everyone > make it through the storm ok. > > My VFR did fine. > > Rob > > -- > Rob Sharp > SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 > Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 10:29:46 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Mark Kitchell" , "dc-cycles list" Subject: Re: Thanks ScooterFZR Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:29:07 -0400 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Kitchell" > > > However, unlike in the hinterlands, we have not lost > power for 1 minute. Water too. > > I want to thank Scott (Scooter) for letting me use his > underground garage for the storm. When I returned > home to my building, I found a chimney cap (heavy) > right in the middle of my normal parking space. That > was close. > > Mark > No bike damage for my outside bikes, except the ratty old cover on the VFR has a few more holes in it. Yeah, indeed, strangely, DC WASA seems to be able to keep the water flowing, despite 30-40 mph winds. ;-) Here's a little bit of trivia for your Tuesday. Congress banned the use of overhead wires in the older parts of DC (roughly the "L'Enfant" plan areas + plus Georgetown, in what was then called the "City of Washington") in 1893. Overhead wires serving the new-fangled telephone and electric utilities were seen as an eyesore in those days. Thanks to this 110-year-old law, power and phone lines are underground in most of the close-in neighborhoods, including mine and Mark's. Phone wires were allowed in alleys. Expensive, no doubt, but much more durable, not to mention no overhead clutter, and at odds with the "build it fast and build it cheap" ethic that held sway elsewhere. This is also the reason DC's electric streetcars did not use overhead wires and drew their juice from a conduit slot in the street between the rails. Go to "O" and "P" Streets west of Wisconsin Ave. in Georgetown and you can still see this setup in place. Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 10:38:43 2003 Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 07:38:29 -0700 (PDT) From: matthew patton Subject: free motorcycle boots to a new home (size 10.5-11), AGV Prexport and SIDI vertebre To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX The boots are AGV Prexport's. They are used, some would say heavily with a few scuff marks on the plastic protectors but still very servicable boots. they are vented which obviously means they are NOT waterproof as much as that feature would have been handy these last few days. They have internal laces (will need new laces and if you can get speed-lacers that's even better) with big velcro flaps. The SIDI's are also old boots and show clear signs of use. They are size 46 which is on the longer side of size 11. Maybe $30 for these but open to counter offers. Boots are being shipped in from Chicago this week so will hopefully be here by the weekend. (if my landlady sends the box in a timely fashion) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 10:39:16 2003 Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:38:27 -0400 To: "Paul Wilson" , "Perry Coleman" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Everyone OK? At 09:48 AM 9/23/03 -0400, Paul Wilson wrote: >Yeah, "dark" intersections. DC area cagers need a refresher course in the >rules of the road. In the absence of any other traffic control device (like >a stop sign) an inoperative completely dark traffic signal is to be treated >as a 4-way stop. Now if they only knew how to handle a 4-way stop, we'd be set... >We lost >the cable TV Thursday night and have yet to get it back up. Glad I'm not >depending on them for internet service. My DirectTV satellite system worked through the whole thing...until the power went out anyway. I have lost signal in the past, for a particularly severe thunderstorm that took exactly the right path between me and the satellite, but Isabele didn't affect it. My outages over the last few years haven't been any greater than they used to be with CTM (Cable TV Montgomery). Working from home has its drawbacks...one of which is no time off for storms! :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 10:39:17 2003 Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:32:34 -0400 To: Paul Wilson , Rob Keiser , bhuson@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Naughahide(sp?) At 07:55 AM 9/23/03 -0400, Paul Wilson wrote: >It's "Naugahyde," by the way, the tanned skin of "Made in the USA" domesticated Naugas. They are happy little Naugas 'cause their skins are shed, so there is no slaughtering involved. I don't know where those people got their information, but they are WRONG. Naugas aren't cute *little* animals! They are huge lumbering brutes, roaming the icy wastes of northern Greenland. They are *HUGE* animals! Heck, you can cover an entire sofa with a single hide! As for their culinary preferences, they subsist mostly on the small animals known as "Neets" that share their frozen environment. Neets exude a fine oil through the soles of their feet to avoid sticking to the glacier ice as they scamper about avoiding the hungry Naugas. We, as the ravenous apes we are, harvest the Neets too...for the oil, which is used to treat leather baseball gloves, and which, when mixed with lanolin, is sold as "Mink Oil"...and never gets near a Mink (unless you *want* a divorce of course). Next week we'll cover the ecological aspects of the common Polyester and the cool temperate waters it inhabits... -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 10:41:40 2003 Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 11:27:39 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Indian Closing Just heard that Indian is closing up shop again. Sad. Seems Harley has a stranglehold on the cruiser market. http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/6818690.htm ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org Submit. Obey. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 10:42:01 2003 Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 18:30:22 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: MSF Classes? Anyone teaching an MSF class soon that has an opening? My brother in law wants to get into one asap. I convinced him to take the class and he finally has a few weekends free (new baby, weekend work). _____________________________________ Mike Troutman mike@XXXXXX http://www.troutman.org/vfr '97 Honda VFR 750 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 10:44:45 2003 Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:43:24 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: pawilson@XXXXXX, markkitchell@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Thanks ScooterFZR X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 Never saw the original message but, you're welcome Mark. Anyone ever needs a place to stash their bikes for a couple days, let me know. :-) Scooter In a message dated 9/23/2003 10:29:07 AM Eastern Daylight Time, pawilson@XXXXXX writes: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Kitchell" > > > > > > However, unlike in the hinterlands, we have not lost > > power for 1 minute. Water too. > > > > I want to thank Scott (Scooter) for letting me use his > > underground garage for the storm. When I returned > > home to my building, I found a chimney cap (heavy) > > right in the middle of my normal parking space. That > > was close. > > > > Mark > > > > No bike damage for my outside bikes, except the ratty old cover on the VFR > has a few more holes in it. > > Yeah, indeed, strangely, DC WASA seems to be able to keep the water flowing, > despite 30-40 mph winds. ;-) > > Here's a little bit of trivia for your Tuesday. Congress banned the use of > overhead wires in the older parts of DC (roughly the "L'Enfant" plan areas + > plus Georgetown, in what was then called the "City of Washington") in 1893. > Overhead wires serving the new-fangled telephone and electric utilities were > seen as an eyesore in those days. Thanks to this 110-year-old law, power > and phone lines are underground in most of the close-in neighborhoods, > including mine and Mark's. Phone wires were allowed in alleys. Expensive, > no doubt, but much more durable, not to mention no overhead clutter, and at > odds with the "build it fast and build it cheap" ethic that held sway > elsewhere. > > This is also the reason DC's electric streetcars did not use overhead wires > and drew their juice from a conduit slot in the street between the rails. > Go to "O" and "P" Streets west of Wisconsin Ave. in > Georgetown and you can > still see this setup in place. > > Paul in DC > 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 11:01:47 2003 Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:01:25 -0400 To: Troutman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Indian Closing At 11:27 AM 9/22/03 -0400, Troutman wrote: >Just heard that Indian is closing up shop again. Sad. Seems Harley has a >stranglehold on the cruiser market. > >http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/6818690.htm That's part of the problem maybe, but a large part of it was Indian's lousy business plan. They wanted to enter a market with a long-term entrenched competitor, charge the same prices, and planned to sell over 20,000 bikes in their second year of operation. They were overly optimistic and underfunded for the required years of loss while they built credibility. They also lacked a good cheap entry-level product, like the Sportster (ok, "cheapER" :^). I think they were counting on a 50 year old name to do it for them, and it didn't. I'm wondering if Victory will be next. Nice-looking bike, but... -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 11:01:48 2003 Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:02:08 -0400 To: Troutman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: MSF Classes? At 06:30 PM 9/20/03 -0400, Troutman wrote: >Anyone teaching an MSF class soon that has an opening? My brother in law >wants to get into one asap. I convinced him to take the class and he >finally has a few weekends free (new baby, weekend work). If there's one with TWO openings, I'm interested as well... -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 11:19:04 2003 Subject: Re: Indian Closing From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 23 Sep 2003 11:14:55 -0400 On Mon, 2003-09-22 at 11:27, Troutman wrote: > Just heard that Indian is closing up shop again. Sad. Seems Harley has a > stranglehold on the cruiser market. > I don't know about the stranglehold. Lots of cruiser folks like Indians me included. I checked out the Indians when I was looking. They look like custom Harleys with a skirt and fringe and they charged more. I was always more interested in the inline four Indians than the Harley clone V-Twins. The Indian name was used by the California guys in the US (or North America) but the name was owned by someone else elsewhere. I thought I saw a picture of an Indian created by the non-US manufacturer which had an inline four but I can't find a link now. I seem to recall they had corrected the inline four problems with the new model. > http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/6818690.htm > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 11:20:05 2003 Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:19:54 -0400 To: Mike Bartman From: Troutman Subject: Re: Indian Closing Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 11:01 AM 9/23/2003, Mike Bartman wrote: >That's part of the problem maybe, but a large part of it was Indian's lousy >business plan. They wanted to enter a market with a long-term entrenched >competitor, charge the same prices, and planned to sell over 20,000 bikes >in their second year of operation. They were overly optimistic and >underfunded for the required years of loss while they built credibility. >They also lacked a good cheap entry-level product, like the Sportster (ok, >"cheapER" :^). I think they were counting on a 50 year old name to do it >for them, and it didn't. Actually, I believed that part of the plan was decent. Indian has a long heritage and many people were excited to see them come back to life. I talked with several Harley owners that had similar opinions. "That thing looks fruity - looks like a chick's bike". Of course I disagree, but I think talk like that did nothing for the herd mentality. BTW - My inlaws have 2 HDs. One is a 100th anniversary and a very sharp looking bike. It has great pickup, but poor handling and unbelievable weight. I can understand the attraction, but it just isn't for me. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 11:23:24 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Troutman" , , "Mike Bartman" Subject: Re: MSF Classes? Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:23:05 -0400 Unlike in years past, there is no stand-by policy, official or otherwise, managed by the instructors. My best advice is to keep calling the Loudoun Campus (703) 450-2551 to take a spot due to last-minute cancellations. Individual instructors have no back door way to get someone into a class; moreover, we have no idea if a class is "full" until it starts on Friday night. Alexandria's phone is 703-845-6110. Their policies may be slightly different. I haven't taught at Alex. in more than two years. Good luck, and there's always next year! We need more training venues to handle the demand. Paul in DC, but MSF guy in Va. 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Bartman" > At 06:30 PM 9/20/03 -0400, Troutman wrote: > >Anyone teaching an MSF class soon that has an opening? My brother in law > >wants to get into one asap. I convinced him to take the class and he > >finally has a few weekends free (new baby, weekend work). > > If there's one with TWO openings, I'm interested as well... > > -- Mike B. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 12:02:30 2003 Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:03:04 -0400 To: Troutman From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Indian Closing Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 11:19 AM 9/23/03 -0400, Troutman wrote: >talked with several Harley owners that had similar opinions. "That thing >looks fruity - looks like a chick's bike". Of course I disagree, but I >think talk like that did nothing for the herd mentality. That was perhaps part of the problem...but there are folks who like "old fashioned" styling. That's why my bike is going to be a Heritage Classic. (Sounds like I'll be able to pick it up Thursday or Friday this week! :^) >BTW - My inlaws have 2 HDs. One is a 100th anniversary and a very sharp >looking bike. It has great pickup, but poor handling and unbelievable >weight. I can understand the attraction, but it just isn't for me. "Poor handling" depends on what you want to do with it. What makes for great handling for one use makes for lousy handling for another. Ability to turn on a dime at speed can make going straight ahead trickier for instance. I feel the same way about sport bikes that you do about Harleys. I can understand the attraction, but it just isn't for me. I'm not interested in racing, so what would I want with a race bike? Those that want to race wouldn't want my (soon to be...) FLSTCI either. I figure it's a good thing that both sorts are available, since it's obvious that both sorts of customers are there. You say tomato, I'll say potato... :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 12:09:51 2003 Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:10:18 -0400 To: "Paul Wilson" , "Troutman" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: MSF Classes? At 11:23 AM 9/23/03 -0400, Paul Wilson wrote: >My best advice is to keep calling the Loudoun >Campus (703) 450-2551 to take a spot due to last-minute cancellations. >Alexandria's phone is 703-845-6110. Their policies may be slightly Will they take folks who live in Maryland too? >Good luck, and there's always next year! We need more training venues to >handle the demand. Obviously. In Maryland there are a couple of courses to be taught in October and November, and the only way to sign up for them was to be at the signup place at O-dark-thirty on August 5th. No other way to sign up. I was very ill at that time, so I'm out of luck until next year. Since I'm over 18, I've ridden before, and still have the license, the basic class isn't a requirement for me, but I figured it couldn't hurt at all to take it, but it looks like it will be far easier to get into the advanced class next March when the local H.O.G.s have their private one. Until then, I'll try to find out what they teach in the basic class, and practice it on my own. Is there a syllabus anywhere on the web? I didn't see one at the MSF page...is it secret? As soon as I get the bike later this week I'm figuring on a few hours of neighborhood and parking lot practice to get used to it and un-rust my basic riding skills. Doing the stuff that's on Maryland's "road test" for bikes worked the first time. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 12:18:23 2003 Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:18:13 -0700 (PDT) From: matthew patton Subject: Re: MSF Classes? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX call the Fredericksburg and Winchester campuses. They tend to have lesser demand. Call WVa up, yeah it's a longish drive but their classes like in Charlestown tend to be under less demand as well. Or take a commercial course. If I end up being here in VA on a more permanent basis then I'll probably try to put something together. Sunshine Learn to Ride has a nominal presense here (I worked with them last summer) and I taught for 2 commercial outfits in Chicago and so the groundwork can be done. Last I heard VA/MD got off their high horses and opened up the training to commercial outfits but I'd obviously have to get the skinny from vDot on that one. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 12:51:30 2003 Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:51:27 -0700 (PDT) From: dcpatti Subject: Looking for a garage builder To: DC Cycles Can anyone on the list recommend a good contractor to build me a garage? I live in DC so they have to be licensed there. I'm looking to get this done in the next couple of months so my bikes don't get snowed on this winter, and I need to get some bids now. Thanks in advance! Cheers, Patti __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 16:12:21 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 16:12:05 EDT Subject: Re: Indian Closing To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 9/23/2003 11:19:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time, cschelin@XXXXXX writes: > I was always more interested in the inline four Indians than the Harley > clone V-Twins. You are in luck. Triumph is about to build one, 2300cc inline triple, layout like the old Indians. I like it. Loud pipes quell cells. 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 17:23:25 2003 Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 17:23:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Indian Closing From: Stephen Miller To: on 9/23/03 12:03 PM, Mike Bartman at omni@XXXXXX wrote: > > "Poor handling" depends on what you want to do with it. What makes for > great handling for one use makes for lousy handling for another. Ability > to turn on a dime at speed can make going straight ahead trickier for > instance. Huh? In general, I suppose that bikes with shorter wheelbases are more prone to headshake and feel more twitchy in general, all else equal. But most modern sportbikes are very easy to ride in a straight line, AND turn in quicker than a standard or cruiser. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 17:33:34 2003 Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 17:33:06 -0400 From: Skip To: Mike Bartman CC: Troutman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: MSF Classes? Mike Bartman wrote: > > At 06:30 PM 9/20/03 -0400, Troutman wrote: > >Anyone teaching an MSF class soon that has an opening? My brother in law > >wants to get into one asap. I convinced him to take the class and he > >finally has a few weekends free (new baby, weekend work). > > If there's one with TWO openings, I'm interested as well... > > -- Mike B. make that three. --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 17:43:28 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Skip" , "Mike Bartman" Cc: "Troutman" , Subject: Re: MSF Classes? Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 17:43:18 -0400 If you guys are looking for "an" MSF course, but not specifically a beginner course, they will sometimes schedule a private ERC "Experienced Rider Course" at Loudoun. HOG chapters, 'Wingers and BMW clubs do this on occasion. If you already have an endorsement and access to a registered, inspected and insured bike, this is the way to go. Round up 12 people and underwrite a private ERC course. ERC gets you all the bennies, insurance discount, skills refresher, etc., but it won't get you an endorsement. Claire Wynn is the contact person. Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Skip" > Mike Bartman wrote: > > > > At 06:30 PM 9/20/03 -0400, Troutman wrote: > > >Anyone teaching an MSF class soon that has an opening? My brother in law > > >wants to get into one asap. I convinced him to take the class and he > > >finally has a few weekends free (new baby, weekend work). > > > > If there's one with TWO openings, I'm interested as well... > > > > -- Mike B. > > make that three. > > --skip > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 19:18:53 2003 Subject: Re: Indian Closing From: Brian Roach To: Stephen Miller Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 23 Sep 2003 17:35:26 -0400 Modern sportbikes are actually quite compromised on the showroom floor in terms of handling. This is so they aren't really twitchy in a straight line on the highway but still turn in fairly well. The faster you want the bike to turn in, the less mid-corner and straight line stability you have. When you start chassis tuning (geometry and suspension), this becomes readily apparent. I tune my racebikes for stupid-fast turn in and deal with the twitchyness. Mid-corner corrections are more work because of this, but that's just how I like the bike to handle. Having owned a (modern) Harley, I can tell you they are rock-solid stable mid-corner and in a straight line. Far more so than any modern sportbike. You just have to place a call to the harbor master before you get to the turn :) - Roach On Tue, 2003-09-23 at 17:23, Stephen Miller wrote: > on 9/23/03 12:03 PM, Mike Bartman at omni@XXXXXX wrote: > > > > > "Poor handling" depends on what you want to do with it. What makes for > > great handling for one use makes for lousy handling for another. Ability > > to turn on a dime at speed can make going straight ahead trickier for > > instance. > > Huh? In general, I suppose that bikes with shorter wheelbases are more > prone to headshake and feel more twitchy in general, all else equal. But > most modern sportbikes are very easy to ride in a straight line, AND turn in > quicker than a standard or cruiser. > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 19:36:18 2003 Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 16:35:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Indian Closing To: Mike Bartman , Troutman Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 11:19 AM 9/23/03 -0400, Troutman wrote: > > >talked with several Harley owners that had similar > opinions. "That thing > >looks fruity - looks like a chick's bike". Of course I > disagree, but I > >think talk like that did nothing for the herd mentality. > > That was perhaps part of the problem...but there are > folks who like "old > fashioned" styling. That's why my bike is going to be a > Heritage Classic. > (Sounds like I'll be able to pick it up Thursday or > Friday this week! :^) you better call now to schedule your first service or you'll be waiting for two weeks once you call. -- tg ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940-A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 19:50:34 2003 Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 20:03:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Indian Closing On 23 Sep 2003, Brian Roach wrote: > Having owned a (modern) Harley, I can tell you they are rock-solid > stable mid-corner and in a straight line. Far more so than any modern > sportbike. You just have to place a call to the harbor master before you > get to the turn :) > > - Roach I'll have to disagree with you there, Brian. My bike is a freight train, I don't think there is another machine quite so stable in the turns. Mid corner bumps? No problem. Adjust line? Ok. Mid corner braking? Ok, well that's a bad idea ;-) But I'm talking about 'sporting' cornering speeds which can not even be acheived on a Harley or most other cruisers. My bike has a hella-long ;-) wheelbase of 58.5", which helps greatly with stability. Turn in is a bit slow for this barge-like bike, but it can hang with smaller bikes if you muscle it about a bit :-) I've ridden newer Harleys (Softail and Road King) and while they are nice to cruise, don't mistake lack of performance for stability. It is an apples and oranges argument, but just thought I'd throw in my .02. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 19:58:17 2003 Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:58:13 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Bruce Brownlee Subject: Re: MSF Classes? I know alexandria does not allow any walkin's, pretty sure loudoun doesnt either and earlier comments confirm that. as i understand it (could be a nasty urban legend) people were signing up for the course, then 'selling' their seat, ie, "pay me $100 and i will let you take my seat, just give them the check for the course fee when you get there friday nite". gotta love that ebay mentality. They cancel, get their fee back and pocket the C-note. last i knew, winchester (actually, Middletown, 1 mi north of the I-66/I-81 interchange) allowed walkins. I have never had a problem getting 1 or 2 in out there. FYI, I checked with VA DMV, and if you are looking for the 'free pass' on the riding test in VA, you MUST take an approved course, and at this point, I think that is only the MSF courses offered through MSLVI/VRTP (which up here are the various community colleges). I was specifically asking about the Harley Riders Edge program and was told that would not get a person a free pass on the test. Still, there is plenty of value in the education, experience and insurance discount. Just passing on some details. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 20:30:01 2003 Subject: Re: Indian Closing From: Brian Roach To: Wayne Edelen Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 23 Sep 2003 20:29:51 -0400 On Tue, 2003-09-23 at 20:03, Wayne Edelen wrote: > I'll have to disagree with you there, Brian. My bike is a freight train, > I don't think there is another machine quite so stable in the turns. Wayne ... Dude ... you're riding a 'Busa. Of course it's not twitchy. The first time I dyno'd one in the shop, I was tired by the time I had cranked the front stop to the required length :) Your bike will not, however, corner like an R6. Ever. The geometry is radically different. The wheelbase alone pretty much prevents it. It's not a bike made for canyon carving or road-racing. Yours was not a bike to which I was referring :) And when you take the R6, drop the front 5mm and raise the rear 10mm ... it's a bit twitchy. It will, however, turn in like a banshee. - Roach From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 20:38:57 2003 Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 20:37:41 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Bruce Brownlee CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: MSF Classes? Bruce Brownlee wrote: > FYI, I checked with VA DMV, and if you are looking for the > 'free pass' on the riding test in VA, you MUST take an approved > course, and at this point, I think that is only the MSF courses > offered through MSLVI/VRTP (which up here are the various > community colleges). I was specifically asking about the > Harley Riders Edge program and was told that would not get > a person a free pass on the test. True, but I believe VA won't accept the Harley RE completion card because the course is given in MD - near Annapolis. No reciprocity exists on the *approved* BRC --VA doesn't accept MD BRC completion cards and MD doesn't accept VA's. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 20:44:15 2003 Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 20:57:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Indian Closing On 23 Sep 2003, Brian Roach wrote: > On Tue, 2003-09-23 at 20:03, Wayne Edelen wrote: > > > I'll have to disagree with you there, Brian. My bike is a freight train, > > I don't think there is another machine quite so stable in the turns. > > Wayne ... Dude ... you're riding a 'Busa. Of course it's not twitchy. > The first time I dyno'd one in the shop, I was tired by the time I had > cranked the front stop to the required length :) > > Your bike will not, however, corner like an R6. Ever. The geometry is > radically different. The wheelbase alone pretty much prevents it. It's > not a bike made for canyon carving or road-racing. Yours was not a bike > to which I was referring :) > > And when you take the R6, drop the front 5mm and raise the rear 10mm ... > it's a bit twitchy. It will, however, turn in like a banshee. > > - Roach Oh yeah, I wasn't trying to infer that it handles like a race-rep bike, but it is a modern sportbike... albeit one geared more towards all out straight line speed. -- Wayne From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 20:51:36 2003 Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 20:48:06 -0400 To: Stephen Miller , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Indian Closing At 05:23 PM 9/23/03 -0400, Stephen Miller wrote: >on 9/23/03 12:03 PM, Mike Bartman at omni@XXXXXX wrote: > >> >> "Poor handling" depends on what you want to do with it. What makes for >> great handling for one use makes for lousy handling for another. Ability >> to turn on a dime at speed can make going straight ahead trickier for >> instance. > >Huh? In general, I suppose that bikes with shorter wheelbases are more >prone to headshake and feel more twitchy in general, all else equal. But >most modern sportbikes are very easy to ride in a straight line, AND turn in >quicker than a standard or cruiser. No production bike is going to have handling that is dangerous...they will all be very controllable even by fairly inexperienced riders, so long as you don't push them...the fear of lawsuits will see to that. That doesn't mean that they all handle the same, right? My experience on motorcycles is fairly limited...a friend's 2 stroke enduro from the early 70s, another friend's Honda 250 street bike (similar vintage...but almost new at the time :^), my Yamaha XT-550 enduro (memory goes, but I think it was an '82), and my Honda 700 Saber (about '85) are about it so far (I'll add an '04 Harley Softail later this week unless something goes seriously wrong. :^), but even with that limited set, I've noticed differences in handling based on center of gravity, steering tube angle, suspension, etc.. Some are easier to control in slow turns than others. Some are easier to ride straight and slow. Some like going straight and fast, and will do so pretty much "hands off" (not that I'd do that the way Indian Larry does it! :^). Some handle rough ground better (my XT-550 made leaving the roadway for loose gravel almost a non-event...ditto for climbing the 6" "cliff" to get back onto the pavement...when a cage driver made a left in right in front of me once. On my Honda that would have probably left a stain on the seat... :^). "Handling" depends on the use you have for the bike. Most sport bikes would handle like a drunken wombat on ground that my XT-550 would dance over without hesitation. My XT-550 was a real handful on a paved road at 70 mph though...something a sport bike, or a cruiser, can do effortlessly. The differences between a sport bike and a cruiser are less extreme than between either and an enduro, but are still there...or so my limited experience tells me. If one of the folks here who currently own more bikes than I've ever sat astride want to correct me on this, I'm listening. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 20:56:25 2003 Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 20:51:53 -0400 To: Skip From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: MSF Classes? Cc: Troutman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 05:33 PM 9/23/03 -0400, Skip wrote: >Mike Bartman wrote: >> >> At 06:30 PM 9/20/03 -0400, Troutman wrote: >> >Anyone teaching an MSF class soon that has an opening? My brother in law >> >wants to get into one asap. I convinced him to take the class and he >> >finally has a few weekends free (new baby, weekend work). >> >> If there's one with TWO openings, I'm interested as well... >> >> -- Mike B. > >make that three. Is it possible to hold a private course if you get enough people together? What would be involved? A place? Insurance? Obviously an instructor...anything else? What would it cost and how many people would have to sign up for it to even be a potential happening? I know the MCHOGS group has a private advanced rider course once a year, could this list support something like that? Just wondering...there seems to be at least some interest in something like that. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 20:57:53 2003 Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 20:57:55 -0400 To: Brian Roach , Stephen Miller From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Indian Closing Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 05:35 PM 9/23/03 -0400, Brian Roach wrote: >Having owned a (modern) Harley, I can tell you they are rock-solid >stable mid-corner and in a straight line. Far more so than any modern >sportbike. You just have to place a call to the harbor master before you >get to the turn :) At least you don't need a tug! :^) Thanks for the info...I figured it was something like that. With boats and planes it works the same way...agility and stability are incompatible items. You pick the one you care about and live with what it does to the other...or correct it with fancy technology the way the F-16 does (if the flight control system wasn't making constant corrections to keep that thing flying the way the pilot is asking for, it would go out of control and break up in a heartbeat. It's designed to be seriously unstable...that way you just let it go "out of control" in the direction you want to go, and it's there!). I'll take stable over twitchy, thank you very much. You guys have fun with the other ones! :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 21:06:28 2003 Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 21:05:23 -0400 To: "William J. Huson" , Bruce Brownlee From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: MSF Classes? Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 08:37 PM 9/23/03 -0400, William J. Huson wrote: >True, but I believe VA won't accept the Harley RE completion card >because the course is given in MD - near Annapolis. No reciprocity >exists on the *approved* BRC --VA doesn't accept MD BRC completion cards >and MD doesn't accept VA's. That doesn't seem to make much sense...aren't both of them done to MSF guidelines? What's so different that a course in one state isn't the same as one in another? Not that this affects me...I already have a license. I'm just looking for whatever additional education and experience I can get. I'll certainly sign up for the MC HOGS Advanced Rider Course next March, but you can't get enough exposure to information and practice if you ask me. Even if you hear the same stuff, repetition helps retention. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 21:08:28 2003 Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 21:09:05 -0400 To: "Paul Wilson" , "Skip" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: MSF Classes? Cc: "Troutman" , At 05:43 PM 9/23/03 -0400, Paul Wilson wrote: >If you already have an endorsement and access to a registered, >inspected and insured bike, this is the way to go. Round up 12 people and >underwrite a private ERC course. ERC gets you all the bennies, insurance >discount, skills refresher, etc., but it won't get you an endorsement. >Claire Wynn is the contact person. Thanks for the info! We seem to have 2 or 3 here now...maybe more. Can we get to 12? Is Claire on the list? -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 21:35:32 2003 Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 21:35:28 -0400 To: Mike Bartman , "William J. Huson" From: Bruce Brownlee Subject: Re: MSF Classes? Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I believe it has to do with the Instructors being 'deputized' as examiners. Its the 'free pass' on the skills test at the DMV that is in question. The rest of it: experience, learning, insurance discount, etc well make it worthwhile, just VA wont accept the results from a different state unless they can reach out and touch the instructors and determine guidelines, etc. Each MSF 'entity' is allowed to make various changes to the program to fit their needs. In reality, the states build their programs on the MSF foundation, rather than the other way around (doing a course that fits MSF 'certification'). Bill or Paul may be able to clarify, but I dont think MSF does anything for us, really, when we are on the range. Its our position as state employees that protects us from legal problems, etc. All that is true as long as we are teaching the state mandated curriculum (determined by DMV itself) to the MSF standards (enforced by Chief Instructors). The 'free pass' on the DMV road test, given when a student passes the MSF course, is just a benefit to students (and probably an effort to get better trained people giving the evaluation). At 09:05 PM 9/23/2003 -0400, Mike Bartman wrote: >At 08:37 PM 9/23/03 -0400, William J. Huson wrote: > > >True, but I believe VA won't accept the Harley RE completion card > >because the course is given in MD - near Annapolis. No reciprocity > >exists on the *approved* BRC --VA doesn't accept MD BRC completion cards > >and MD doesn't accept VA's. > >That doesn't seem to make much sense...aren't both of them done to MSF >guidelines? What's so different that a course in one state isn't the same >as one in another? > >Not that this affects me...I already have a license. I'm just looking for >whatever additional education and experience I can get. I'll certainly >sign up for the MC HOGS Advanced Rider Course next March, but you can't get >enough exposure to information and practice if you ask me. Even if you >hear the same stuff, repetition helps retention. > >-- Mike B. > >**************************************************************************** >* Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * >* Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * >* omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * >*--------------------------------------------------------------------------* >* "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * >**************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 21:36:41 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Mike Bartman" Cc: Subject: Re: MSF Classes? Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 21:37:01 -0400 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Bartman" > At 05:43 PM 9/23/03 -0400, Paul Wilson wrote: > >If you already have an endorsement and access to a registered, > >inspected and insured bike, this is the way to go. Round up 12 people and > >underwrite a private ERC course. ERC gets you all the bennies, insurance > >discount, skills refresher, etc., but it won't get you an endorsement. > >Claire Wynn is the contact person. > > Thanks for the info! We seem to have 2 or 3 here now...maybe more. Can we > get to 12? > > Is Claire on the list? > Not likely. Call the number for NVCC Loudoun Continuing Ed. that I posted earlier today. Seriously, get your twelve riders together and she what she can do. ERCs are held on Sunday at Loudoun's second range. Paul in DC 95 VFR - 86 VF500F - users.erols.com/pawilson From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 22:06:22 2003 Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 22:05:27 -0400 To: "Paul Wilson" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: MSF Classes? Cc: At 09:37 PM 9/23/03 -0400, Paul Wilson wrote: >From: "Mike Bartman" > >> Thanks for the info! We seem to have 2 or 3 here now...maybe more. Can >we >> get to 12? >> >> Is Claire on the list? >Not likely. Call the number for NVCC Loudoun Continuing Ed. that I posted >earlier today. Got it...wasn't sure where she was located. >Seriously, get your twelve riders together and she what she >can do. ERCs are held on Sunday at Loudoun's second range. Ok, there's me (soon enough anyway), and Skip...and perhaps Troutman's friend (was he looking for ERC or BRC?). That's...well, almost 2, or maybe 3. Are there 9-10 more list folks who are interested? If not, I'll be going to the next MC HOGS meeting...perhaps there are some folks there who might be interested. They run one of these every March, but earlier is better if you ask me! (that way I can take it again in March and see if I've learned anything! :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 23 23:39:39 2003 Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 20:39:36 -0700 (PDT) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Indian Closing To: Brian Roach Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Brian Roach wrote: > The faster you want the bike to turn in, the less > mid-corner and > straight line stability you have. When you start chassis > tuning > (geometry and suspension), this becomes readily apparent. I > tune my > racebikes for stupid-fast turn in and deal with the > twitchyness. > Mid-corner corrections are more work because of this, but > that's just > how I like the bike to handle. This makes 100% sense, since it's exactly the same tradeoff as encountered in car suspensions. I once had my Formula Ford set up for autocross -- lots of toe-out, maximum camber, etc. -- and took it out for a practice day at the Summit Point main track without re-installing my road racing settings. Scared myself out of my mind in just two laps. The only thing that saved me was I hadn't changed the gearbox back either -- had three first gears installed, along with a second and a fourth. 8;) -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 24 07:37:31 2003 Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 07:50:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Cc: Subject: 2nd gear standup gone wrong Before - http://www.hayabusa.org/iB_html/uploads/post-6-75359-My_pics_020_copy.jpg and after - http://www.hayabusa.org/iB_html/uploads/post-6-75437-My_pics_029_copy.jpg The rider is ok, other than some rash. He wasn't wearing his leather pants and ended up with a lot of rash on his legs. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 24 08:01:33 2003 Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 05:01:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Sean Steele Subject: Re: 2nd gear standup gone wrong To: Wayne Edelen Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Are the pictures of the same rider? The terrain seems conspicuously different... -Sean --- Wayne Edelen wrote: > Before - > http://www.hayabusa.org/iB_html/uploads/post-6-75359-My_pics_020_copy.jpg > > and after - > http://www.hayabusa.org/iB_html/uploads/post-6-75437-My_pics_029_copy.jpg > > The rider is ok, other than some rash. He wasn't > wearing his leather > pants and ended up with a lot of rash on his legs. > > -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 24 08:07:35 2003 Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 08:20:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: 2nd gear standup gone wrong On Wed, 24 Sep 2003, Sean Steele wrote: > Are the pictures of the same rider? The terrain seems > conspicuously different... > > -Sean According to the rider, they were taken at different times. I think he posted the first one to demonstrate that he could actually perform a standup ;-) -- Wayne From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 24 08:17:05 2003 Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 08:16:58 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: 2nd gear standup gone wrong To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >According to the rider, they were taken at different times. >I think he posted the first one to demonstrate that he could >actually perform a standup ;-) > >-- Wayne [Dave] IIRC, someone here has a sig line which says something to the effect of " if you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a warning " or something... Just because you _can_ do something, doesn't mean that you should... Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 24 08:49:56 2003 Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 08:49:46 -0400 From: "Chris Norloff" Reply-To: To: , Dave Yates Subject: Re: 2nd gear standup gone wrong "If you can't be a good example, you might be a horrible warning." ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Dave Yates Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 08:16:58 -0400 >>According to the rider, they were taken at different times. >>I think he posted the first one to demonstrate that he could >>actually perform a standup ;-) >> >>-- Wayne > >[Dave] IIRC, someone here has a sig line which says >something to the effect of " if you can't be a good example, >you'll just have to serve as a warning " or something... > >Just because you _can_ do something, doesn't mean that you >should... > > >Dave Yates > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 24 09:03:18 2003 Subject: Re: 2nd gear standup gone wrong From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 24 Sep 2003 08:59:09 -0400 On Wed, 2003-09-24 at 08:16, Dave Yates wrote: > >According to the rider, they were taken at different times. > >I think he posted the first one to demonstrate that he could > >actually perform a standup ;-) > > > >-- Wayne > > [Dave] IIRC, someone here has a sig line which says > something to the effect of " if you can't be a good example, > you'll just have to serve as a warning " or something... > > Just because you _can_ do something, doesn't mean that you > should... > > One of my previous .sigs was: Maybe your whole purpose in life is to serve as a bad example to others. Not quite the one I've seen here but close. > Dave Yates > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 24 09:51:18 2003 Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:50:46 -0400 From: Skip To: Mike Bartman CC: Paul Wilson , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: MSF Classes? Mike Bartman wrote: > Ok, there's me (soon enough anyway), and Skip...and perhaps Troutman's > friend (was he looking for ERC or BRC?). That's...well, almost 2, or maybe > 3. Are there 9-10 more list folks who are interested? I was actually asking for a friend. he hasn't ridden since 86 or 87, so he needs the beginner course. I'm currently bikeless. --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 24 10:31:05 2003 Subject: Service From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 24 Sep 2003 10:26:56 -0400 I dropped my Softail off for the 20,000 mile checkup (well, 24,699 but I was in Boise for 20k). One of the questions I had was regarding the wheezing I was getting while riding. Normally when I flip on the switches it does the engine check and there's a quick wheeze as the fuel pump activates. In this case the wheezing lasts longer and I noticed it while riding (well, idling; you can't hear anything while riding :-) Anyway, apparently a sensor has failed. East Coast called Harley who said they've never heard of this happening before. It seems I have a unique bike ;-) Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 24 10:32:01 2003 Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:30:27 -0400 To: Wayne Edelen , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: 2nd gear standup gone wrong At 08:20 AM 9/24/03 -0400, Wayne Edelen wrote: >On Wed, 24 Sep 2003, Sean Steele wrote: > >> Are the pictures of the same rider? The terrain seems >> conspicuously different... >> >> -Sean > >According to the rider, they were taken at different times. I think he >posted the first one to demonstrate that he could actually perform a >standup ;-) Ah...that makes sense. Never mind... :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 24 10:32:18 2003 Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:29:18 -0400 To: Wayne Edelen , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: 2nd gear standup gone wrong Cc: At 07:50 AM 9/24/03 -0400, Wayne Edelen wrote: >Before - >http://www.hayabusa.org/iB_html/uploads/post-6-75359-My_pics_020_copy.jpg > >and after - >http://www.hayabusa.org/iB_html/uploads/post-6-75437-My_pics_029_copy.jpg > >The rider is ok, other than some rash. He wasn't wearing his leather >pants and ended up with a lot of rash on his legs. Are those pics of the same thing? One shows an offramp sign, bare dirt shoulders and guardrail along one side. The other shows a two lane blacktop with lots of trees and flowers, with grass on the shoulders and no guardrail. The position of the photographer is also very different (way off to one side behind a fence vs. on the shoulder next to the road). Given that the second shot is taken during the wreck, either there were two photographers, the lone photographer should be entering the Olympic sprint competitions, or it's two separate events. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 24 10:32:33 2003 Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:32:30 -0400 To: Skip From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: MSF Classes? Cc: Paul Wilson , dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 09:50 AM 9/24/03 -0400, Skip wrote: >Mike Bartman wrote: >> Ok, there's me (soon enough anyway), and Skip...and perhaps Troutman's >> friend (was he looking for ERC or BRC?). That's...well, almost 2, or maybe >> 3. Are there 9-10 more list folks who are interested? > >I was actually asking for a friend. he hasn't ridden since 86 or 87, so he >needs the beginner course. So much for that...though you are worrying me a bit...I haven't ridden since about '91... :^) >I'm currently bikeless. That's no fun. Any prospects? -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 24 10:45:38 2003 Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:46:01 -0400 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Service At 10:26 AM 9/24/03 -0400, Carl Schelin wrote: >Anyway, apparently a sensor has failed. East Coast called Harley who >said they've never heard of this happening before. It seems I have a >unique bike ;-) Did they say which sensor? Something to do with fuel pressure maybe? -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 24 11:17:28 2003 Subject: Re: Service From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 24 Sep 2003 11:13:20 -0400 On Wed, 2003-09-24 at 10:46, Mike Bartman wrote: > At 10:26 AM 9/24/03 -0400, Carl Schelin wrote: > > >Anyway, apparently a sensor has failed. East Coast called Harley who > >said they've never heard of this happening before. It seems I have a > >unique bike ;-) > > Did they say which sensor? Something to do with fuel pressure maybe? > Nope. He said they had to replace the fuel pump assembly located in the tank. I just called him back to get more info. Basically the Harley office had not heard of this problem in the way he and I described it (wheezing mainly). $250 or so for repairs in addition to the $360 for the 20k check. These guys certainly don't nickle and dime you to death ;-) > -- Mike B. > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 24 11:30:14 2003 Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:30:54 -0400 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Service At 11:13 AM 9/24/03 -0400, Carl Schelin wrote: >On Wed, 2003-09-24 at 10:46, Mike Bartman wrote: >> Did they say which sensor? Something to do with fuel pressure maybe? > >Nope. He said they had to replace the fuel pump assembly located in the >tank. I just called him back to get more info. Basically the Harley >office had not heard of this problem in the way he and I described it >(wheezing mainly). So now you don't know if it was some sort of sensor, or the pump itself? I guess if the two are only sold together it doesn't make much difference, other than an accademic interest in how it all works. :^) >$250 or so for repairs in addition to the $360 for the 20k check. These >guys certainly don't nickle and dime you to death ;-) You knew the job was tough when you took it. :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 24 11:39:15 2003 Subject: Re: Service From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 24 Sep 2003 11:35:05 -0400 On Wed, 2003-09-24 at 11:30, Mike Bartman wrote: > At 11:13 AM 9/24/03 -0400, Carl Schelin wrote: > >On Wed, 2003-09-24 at 10:46, Mike Bartman wrote: > > >> Did they say which sensor? Something to do with fuel pressure maybe? > > > >Nope. He said they had to replace the fuel pump assembly located in the > >tank. I just called him back to get more info. Basically the Harley > >office had not heard of this problem in the way he and I described it > >(wheezing mainly). > > So now you don't know if it was some sort of sensor, or the pump itself? I > guess if the two are only sold together it doesn't make much difference, > other than an accademic interest in how it all works. :^) > I think he has short term memory loss. When I originally spoke to him he talked about the problem in a little detail. This time he was a bit more vauge about it. Probably the service manager. If I spoke to Eric he'd be able to tell me the whole thing. As it is, I'll check the service manual when I get home because I'm curious as well (from an academic standpoint). > >$250 or so for repairs in addition to the $360 for the 20k check. These > >guys certainly don't nickle and dime you to death ;-) > > You knew the job was tough when you took it. :^) > Not complaining. Just making a joke :-) I actually took it in for a thorough check because of the long trip. I've been weaning them off of me because I planned on doing some of the work (especially the expensive oil changes) myself. > -- Mike B. > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 24 11:44:12 2003 Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 08:44:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Isaac Blanck Subject: Re: MSF Classes? To: Bruce Brownlee , Mike Bartman , "William J. Huson" Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I took the Rider's Edge class in Aug. '01 at a Harley dealer in Gettysburg, PA. There were 2 people from VA and 1 from MD in the class. The 2 people from VA, and I think the person from MD told me that once they got their MSF completion card they took it to the DMV and they got their license. Don't know if it's changed since then. jib --- Bruce Brownlee wrote: > I believe it has to do with the Instructors being > 'deputized' as examiners. > Its the 'free pass' on the skills test at the DMV > that is in question. > The rest of it: experience, learning, insurance > discount, etc well make it > worthwhile, just VA wont accept the results from a > different state unless > they can reach out and touch the instructors and > determine guidelines, > etc. Each MSF 'entity' is allowed to make various > changes to the > program to fit their needs. In reality, the states > build their programs > on the MSF foundation, rather than the other way > around (doing a course > that fits MSF 'certification'). > Bill or Paul may be able to clarify, but I dont > think MSF does anything > for us, really, when we are on the range. Its our > position as state > employees that protects us from legal problems, etc. > All that is true > as long as we are teaching the state mandated > curriculum (determined > by DMV itself) to the MSF standards (enforced by > Chief Instructors). > The 'free pass' on the DMV road test, given when a > student passes the > MSF course, is just a benefit to students (and > probably an effort to get > better trained people giving the evaluation). > > At 09:05 PM 9/23/2003 -0400, Mike Bartman wrote: > >At 08:37 PM 9/23/03 -0400, William J. Huson wrote: > > > > >True, but I believe VA won't accept the Harley RE > completion card > > >because the course is given in MD - near > Annapolis. No reciprocity > > >exists on the *approved* BRC --VA doesn't accept > MD BRC completion cards > > >and MD doesn't accept VA's. > > > >That doesn't seem to make much sense...aren't both > of them done to MSF > >guidelines? What's so different that a course in > one state isn't the same > >as one in another? > > > >Not that this affects me...I already have a > license. I'm just looking for > >whatever additional education and experience I can > get. I'll certainly > >sign up for the MC HOGS Advanced Rider Course next > March, but you can't get > >enough exposure to information and practice if you > ask me. Even if you > >hear the same stuff, repetition helps retention. > > > >-- Mike B. > > > >**************************************************************************** > >* Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered > Obfuscation Obliterated * > >* Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled > Opinions Offered * > >* omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined > Smiles Stimulated * > >*--------------------------------------------------------------------------* > >* "We do it all! No job too small! No > price too high! * > >**************************************************************************** > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 24 11:51:39 2003 Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:52:19 -0400 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Service At 11:35 AM 9/24/03 -0400, Carl Schelin wrote: >On Wed, 2003-09-24 at 11:30, Mike Bartman wrote: >> >$250 or so for repairs in addition to the $360 for the 20k check. These >> >guys certainly don't nickle and dime you to death ;-) >> >> You knew the job was tough when you took it. :^) > >Not complaining. Just making a joke :-) I know. Me too. :^) >I've been weaning them off of >me because I planned on doing some of the work (especially the expensive >oil changes) myself. I'm figuring on the same thing...though I'll let them do the first one. I saw a plastic paddle thingy at the dealership yesterday...supposed to be to help with oil changes. It guides the oil from the exit point, past the frame and into your pan/jar/bucket/whatever. How necessary is that? Wouldn't a funnel, or bit of cardboard do the job? Or just wipe up the mess after the fact? Just wondering... -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 24 11:54:12 2003 Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:54:52 -0400 To: Isaac Blanck , Bruce Brownlee , "William J. Huson" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: MSF Classes? Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 08:44 AM 9/24/03 -0700, Isaac Blanck wrote: >I took the Rider's Edge class in Aug. '01 at a Harley >dealer in Gettysburg, PA. There were 2 people from VA >and 1 from MD in the class. The 2 people from VA, and >I think the person from MD told me that once they got >their MSF completion card they took it to the DMV and >they got their license. Don't know if it's changed >since then. jib It's been many years since I had to deal with the DMV in VA, but I've found the MVA in MD to be pretty reasonable about things for the most part. Only a couple of disinterested/hostile employees, and a number of friendly/helpful ones. The DMV in VA was pretty much the other way around...but that was over 20 years ago, so I can't say what it's like these days. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 24 12:01:27 2003 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'DCCycles'" , "'SabMag'" Subject: Chinese bikes Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:05:04 -0400 Carl Parker has been reporting on his adventures in teaching English in China. Here's a URL for some pictures, including some motorcycles. . CP: "I have pictures of my trip here and other misadventures at: http://www.imageevent.com/comradecarl > " . Note the top cases on all bikes. Way more chic than the Rubbermaid adopted (cough) by some. (Actually Rubbermaid was too expensive for my taste, I used the cheaper stuff at WM.) Carl in Bethesda From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 24 12:18:53 2003 Subject: Re: Service From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 24 Sep 2003 12:14:45 -0400 On Wed, 2003-09-24 at 11:52, Mike Bartman wrote: > At 11:35 AM 9/24/03 -0400, Carl Schelin wrote: > >On Wed, 2003-09-24 at 11:30, Mike Bartman wrote: > >I've been weaning them off of > >me because I planned on doing some of the work (especially the expensive > >oil changes) myself. > > I'm figuring on the same thing...though I'll let them do the first one. > > I saw a plastic paddle thingy at the dealership yesterday...supposed to be > to help with oil changes. It guides the oil from the exit point, past the > frame and into your pan/jar/bucket/whatever. How necessary is that? > Wouldn't a funnel, or bit of cardboard do the job? Or just wipe up the > mess after the fact? Just wondering... > Certainly something needs to be used. The oil filter points left. I used newspapers the first time and then a piece of cardboard the second. As long as the plastic doesn't have the harley logo/$45 price tag, I'd probably get it. Neither the newspaper or the cardboard did a great job. I have a sheet of thin aluminium I was going to use next time. Cleaning it up afterwards is just a mess. Yours will have chrome so it'll be easier. Mine is the standard rough pattern which makes it harder to clean. Watch out for the T27 screws on the clutch plate. I stripped the heads on three of the stupid things. The only other thing that's bitten me is the _in_ lbs vs _ft_ lbs for the torque wrench. I broke off the head of a bolt misreading the book. > -- Mike B. > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 24 12:21:58 2003 Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:22:43 -0400 To: "Custer, Carl" , "'DCCycles'" , "'SabMag'" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Chinese bikes At 12:05 PM 9/24/03 -0400, Custer, Carl wrote: >Carl Parker has been reporting on his adventures in teaching English in >China. I had a friend who did that in Korea. Based on her reports, it looks like Carl is being treated royally in China. Nice pad! >Note the top cases on all bikes. Way more chic than the Rubbermaid adopted >(cough) by some. (Actually Rubbermaid was too expensive for my taste, I >used the cheaper stuff at WM.) I thought the direction of the flames on the tank patch were interesting in this one: http://imageevent.com/comradecarl/motochina;jsessionid=x5cko040s1.chipmunk_s ?p=0&n=1&m=24&c=4&l=0&w=4&s=0&z=2 Does the bike have a reverse gear? :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 24 12:36:45 2003 Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:36:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Leon Begeman Subject: Re: Chinese bikes To: "Custer, Carl" , "'DCCycles'" , "'SabMag'" Of course they have top cases. They split lanes in China. You'll notice that none of the bikes have saddlebags. Did you notice that the #97 NASCAR formerly sponsored by John Deere is now sponsored by Rubbermaid? Leon --- "Custer, Carl" wrote: > Note the top cases on all bikes. Way more chic than > the Rubbermaid adopted > (cough) by some. (Actually Rubbermaid was too > expensive for my taste, I > used the cheaper stuff at WM.) > > Carl in Bethesda > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 24 12:53:55 2003 Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:54:19 -0400 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Service At 12:14 PM 9/24/03 -0400, Carl Schelin wrote: >long as the plastic doesn't have the harley logo/$45 price tag, I'd >probably get it. Neither the newspaper or the cardboard did a great job. >I have a sheet of thin aluminium I was going to use next time. Aluminum would probably work, but it might be simpler to look at the plastic thing. I don't remember the price, but it was Harley Orange... :^) It also had some cutouts at one end that looked like they were supposed to fit over something...probably the filter attachment point. You should probably look at the thing at some point anyway...even if you go home and copy it in aluminum. :^) >Watch out for the T27 screws on the clutch plate. I stripped the heads >on three of the stupid things. Loctite? If it's the red stuff, you'd have to heat them to loosen them. (is the red=heat, blue=power tools rule true? I know there are a bunch of different versions of each color, with different strengths...). >The only other thing that's bitten me is >the _in_ lbs vs _ft_ lbs for the torque wrench. I broke off the head of >a bolt misreading the book. Just wait until it's in newtom-meters or something! :^) A 767 flying over Canada ran out of gas once due to a pounds/kilograms error. Luckily the pilot was an experienced glider instructor...landed at an airport about 65 miles from the flameout point, no damage, no injuries. Well, perhaps there was some damage to the seating, they didn't say in the report I read. :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 24 12:56:34 2003 Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:56:31 -0400 From: Stephen Miller To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Handling tradeoffs; WAS: Indian Closing I did acknowledge the tradeoff between cornering and stability, "all else equal." The point is that all else is not equal, especially where suspension, weight distribution, and frame rigidity are concerned. This is why a 'Busa handles better than a similarly long and heavy cruiser. And it's why even an R6 feels pretty darn stable in a straight line under, say, 110 mph, while running rings around pretty much any cruiser through tight turns. Is there a tradeoff? Yes. The same R6 can be made to turn quicker at the expense of stability. But it's both pretty stable and pretty darn sharp-turning out of the box. Bikes like the 'Busa or even the VFR are even farther from what someone could reasonably call "twitchy." They give up some handling to the racer reps, but what's remarkable is how little they really do give up. On Tuesday, September 23, 2003, at 05:35PM, Brian Roach wrote: >Having owned a (modern) Harley, I can tell you they are rock-solid >stable mid-corner and in a straight line. Far more so than any modern >sportbike. You just have to place a call to the harbor master before you >get to the turn :) > >- Roach > >On Tue, 2003-09-23 at 17:23, Stephen Miller wrote: >> on 9/23/03 12:03 PM, Mike Bartman at omni@XXXXXX wrote: >> >> > >> > "Poor handling" depends on what you want to do with it. What makes for >> > great handling for one use makes for lousy handling for another. Ability >> > to turn on a dime at speed can make going straight ahead trickier for >> > instance. >> >> Huh? In general, I suppose that bikes with shorter wheelbases are more >> prone to headshake and feel more twitchy in general, all else equal. But >> most modern sportbikes are very easy to ride in a straight line, AND turn in >> quicker than a standard or cruiser. >> >> > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 24 13:13:51 2003 Subject: Re: Service From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 24 Sep 2003 13:09:40 -0400 On Wed, 2003-09-24 at 12:54, Mike Bartman wrote: > At 12:14 PM 9/24/03 -0400, Carl Schelin wrote: > >Watch out for the T27 screws on the clutch plate. I stripped the heads > >on three of the stupid things. > > Loctite? If it's the red stuff, you'd have to heat them to loosen them. > (is the red=heat, blue=power tools rule true? I know there are a bunch of > different versions of each color, with different strengths...). > Nope. I got them off once and then back on but broke two of the torx bits trying the second time (50 ft lb) as well as badly destroying the top one. I tried a reverse screw and drilling it out. I even tried to cut a slot in it with my dremel but that failed as well. I sold it before I had to take it to a local metal shop. I'm more careful now but I had used a T25 instead of a T27. My fault entirely except for the oddity of a T27 driver. > A 767 flying over Canada ran out of gas once due to a pounds/kilograms > error. Luckily the pilot was an experienced glider instructor...landed at > an airport about 65 miles from the flameout point, no damage, no injuries. > Well, perhaps there was some damage to the seating, they didn't say in the > report I read. :^) > Considering my e-mail address, do we want to discuss the "impression" made by the mars mission landers? :-) > -- Mike B. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 24 13:16:46 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Isaac Blanck" , "Mike Bartman" Cc: Subject: Re: MSF Classes? Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 13:14:49 -0400 Can't comment on Merry-land, but VA DMV will want to see a Completion Card with a Virginia training venue on it. I've "heard", but have no direct knowledge, that West Va. completion cards are accepted as well. I suppose it's always possible you can slide a non-conforming card past a clueless DMV desk clerk, but I wouldn't count on it. Virginia also has a two-year cutoff as well. All this info is in the state's Motorcycle Operator's Handbook. http://www.dmv.state.va.us/webdoc/citizen/drivers/mcmanual/mcmanual2.asp FWIW, there is very little "state-specific" content in the Virginia courses. We do have a few wrinkles in the classroom portion (mainly in the selection of study questions), but the range is pretty much "by the book." My understanding is that Maryland has much more "state content" and has a peculiar way of conducting the riding evaluation, so I'd be *really* surprised if they accept Rider's Edge (esp. from Pa.) as a substitute for the MVA's riding test. As Bruce said, I encourage you to take the course of your choice, in the state of your choice, at a time of your convenience, even if it doesn't earn you a bypass to the riding test. You'll be much better off for it, even if you have an additional DMV hassles to deal with to get that little "M" on your license. Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Isaac Blanck" > I took the Rider's Edge class in Aug. '01 at a Harley > dealer in Gettysburg, PA. There were 2 people from VA > and 1 from MD in the class. The 2 people from VA, and > I think the person from MD told me that once they got > their MSF completion card they took it to the DMV and > they got their license. Don't know if it's changed > since then. jib From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 24 14:29:47 2003 Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:29:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Leon Begeman Subject: Re: MSF Classes? To: Paul Wilson , Isaac Blanck , Mike Bartman Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Paul Wilson wrote: > understanding is that Maryland has much more "state > content" and has a > peculiar way of conducting the riding evaluation, so > I'd be *really* > surprised if they accept Rider's Edge (esp. from > Pa.) as a substitute for > the MVA's riding test. Maryland does not accept the MSF completion card (even if it's from Maryland) as a subsitute for the riding test. If you take the course in Maryland and you expect to get a Maryland endorsement on your license, you get a separate form to take to the MVA. Leon. former MSF instructor (MD and VA) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 24 14:37:23 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: "'Leon Begeman'" , "'DCCycles'" , "'SabMag'" Subject: RE: Chinese bikes Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:39:54 -0400 Of course they lane split in China. Everyone lane splits all around the world, except for in the "land of the free." Mike 96 VFR 88 Hawk 76 CB400F > -----Original Message----- > From: Leon Begeman [SMTP:mriderleon@XXXXXX] > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 12:37 PM > To: Custer, Carl; 'DCCycles'; 'SabMag' > Subject: Re: Chinese bikes > > Of course they have top cases. They split lanes in > China. You'll notice that none of the bikes have > saddlebags. > > Did you notice that the #97 NASCAR formerly sponsored > by John Deere is now sponsored by Rubbermaid? > > Leon > > > > --- "Custer, Carl" wrote: > > Note the top cases on all bikes. Way more chic than > > the Rubbermaid adopted > > (cough) by some. (Actually Rubbermaid was too > > expensive for my taste, I > > used the cheaper stuff at WM.) > > > > Carl in Bethesda > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 24 14:50:58 2003 Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:51:02 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Erick Singley Subject: Re: MSF Classes? >--- Paul Wilson wrote: >> understanding is that Maryland has much more "state >> content" and has a peculiar way of conducting the riding evaluation, so >> I'd be *really* surprised if they accept Rider's Edge (esp. from >> Pa.) as a substitute for the MVA's riding test. > >Maryland does not accept the MSF completion card (even >if it's from Maryland) as a subsitute for the riding >test. If you take the course in Maryland and you >expect to get a Maryland endorsement on your license, >you get a separate form to take to the MVA. > >Leon. >former MSF instructor (MD and VA) The first time I took the class, at a MVA center I thought I had to take the computer test during open hours, but not the riding test again to get my M class. Since I didn't have a cycle then, I'd remember if I had to take a separate riding test from the class. The second time I took the class, (passed both times, I wanted a refresher after actually owning a cycle), the instructors were authorized to certify your state 'M' class with their driving test right then, I thought. I don't know about the 'card' if you take it other than at the MD MVA MSF courses. It seemed to be a big change, so unless Rider's Edge has had a similar deal with the State, I doubt it'd be accepted as a substitute. http://mva.state.md.us/MVAProg/MOTO/BasicRider.htm says "The basic curricula was designed by the Motorcycle safety Foundation and approved by the MVA... If you successfully complete the basic course test and knowledge test, you will get a certificate that you can take to any full service MVA and get your Class M endorsement." [wow. they say over 55,000 people have taken the class] Erick 74' CB750 - *sigh* no muffler yet. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 24 15:11:06 2003 Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:10:50 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Erick Singley Subject: Re: MSF Classes? >The "certificate" named in the State web page is NOT >the same as the MSF "card." Virginia accepts the MSF >card as a substitute for the riding test (which is why >Bill mentioned that a 'slow' clerk will take one from >out of state.) In Maryland we had to remind the >students that the MSF card is what the insurance >companies want for the training course discount. Both >pieces of paper are important, but they're used in >different places. > >Leon. Gotcha. I thought I was missing a critical difference in definitions in my reply :) Erick From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 24 16:18:20 2003 Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:16:29 -0400 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Service At 01:09 PM 9/24/03 -0400, Carl Schelin wrote: >On Wed, 2003-09-24 at 12:54, Mike Bartman wrote: >> At 12:14 PM 9/24/03 -0400, Carl Schelin wrote: > >> >Watch out for the T27 screws on the clutch plate. I stripped the heads >> >on three of the stupid things. >> >> Loctite? If it's the red stuff, you'd have to heat them to loosen them. > >Nope. I got them off once and then back on but broke two of the torx >bits trying the second time (50 ft lb) as well as badly destroying the >top one. If it was just an incorrect bit thing, ok, but another possible problem I've heard of is using chromed screws without anti-seize. The chrome and the aluminum of the engine stick together really well if you don't put something on them to prevent it. Chrome is really pretty, but it's weaker and has that dissimilar metals problem when you use it in aluminum. >> A 767 flying over Canada ran out of gas once due to a pounds/kilograms >> error. > >Considering my e-mail address, do we want to discuss the "impression" >made by the mars mission landers? :-) Those were intentional seismic impact tests, weren't they? Yeah, that's the ticket...seismic tests...yeah.... -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 24 16:28:41 2003 Subject: Re: Service From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 24 Sep 2003 16:24:13 -0400 On Wed, 2003-09-24 at 16:16, Mike Bartman wrote: > At 01:09 PM 9/24/03 -0400, Carl Schelin wrote: > >On Wed, 2003-09-24 at 12:54, Mike Bartman wrote: > >> At 12:14 PM 9/24/03 -0400, Carl Schelin wrote: > > > >> >Watch out for the T27 screws on the clutch plate. I stripped the heads > >> >on three of the stupid things. > >> > >> Loctite? If it's the red stuff, you'd have to heat them to loosen them. > > > >Nope. I got them off once and then back on but broke two of the torx > >bits trying the second time (50 ft lb) as well as badly destroying the > >top one. > > If it was just an incorrect bit thing, ok, but another possible problem > I've heard of is using chromed screws without anti-seize. The chrome and > the aluminum of the engine stick together really well if you don't put > something on them to prevent it. Chrome is really pretty, but it's weaker > and has that dissimilar metals problem when you use it in aluminum. > Hmm. Possible I suppose. It didn't have any loctite on it when I pulled them off the first time. The coloration is pretty obvious. Someone did recommend a light tapping with a hammer to break the sticking but that didn't work either. I was pretty resigned to taking it to a metal shop to fix it and had even bought replacement screws. > -- Mike B. > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 24 18:45:09 2003 Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:45:02 -0700 (PDT) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Italian Motofest 2003? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Anyone riding up to the Italian Motofest in Shepherdstown this weekend? -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 24 19:30:29 2003 Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 19:29:07 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Mike Bartman CC: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Service Mike Bartman wrote: > > If it was just an incorrect bit thing, ok, but another possible problem > I've heard of is using chromed screws without anti-seize. The chrome and > the aluminum of the engine stick together really well if you don't put > something on them to prevent it. Chrome is really pretty, but it's weaker > and has that dissimilar metals problem when you use it in aluminum. Dern near any screw will grab in aluminum. This is why all Japanese M/C owners who worked on thier own bike had a hammer driven impact wrench. You had the beat the b****hs loose even ona fairly new bike, and then replace the pukey phillips heads screws with allen heads. Never had a problem getting screws outta my Harley, have been known to Anti-Sieze but not always. Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 24 19:48:25 2003 Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 19:48:32 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Bruce Brownlee Subject: Re: MSF ERC Class (was "MSF Classes") I'm teaching an ERC at Loudoun Oct 5. I cant get anyone in or a discount, but I have an email in with Claire to see if the class is full, in case anyone wants an end of season tune up for an insurance break or military certification or something..... I'll let the list know. cost is $75, one day (sunday) starting at 8 and i really work hard to get people out by 1pm. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 24 20:23:57 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: , Subject: Re: Italian Motofest 2003? Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:24:07 -0400 Which day? Sunday (PM) is a possibility for me. Paul in DC 95 VFR - 86 VF500F - users.erols.com/pawilson ----- Original Message ----- From: > Anyone riding up to the Italian Motofest in Shepherdstown > this weekend? > > -- Larry From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 24 21:06:25 2003 From: "Paul Gerhardt" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, pitrgyst@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Italian Motorcycle Festival This Weekend Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:54:40 -0400 I might go on Sunday but have a lot of things going on this weekend. Here is some info if anyone is interested. Just a reminder. The 4th Annual Mid-Atlantic Italian Motorcycle Festival is September 27& 28, 2003. Morgan's Grove Park, Shepherdstown, WV. About an hour from the Washington Metro area. Saturday is a group ride with dinner Sat. night. Sunday is the main event. A detailed schedule is available @ www.italianmotofest.com. Improved this year is the Italian lunch on Sunday. Now all homemade food. Once again, Velocity Vintage and Bajaj have donated a scooter to raffle! More info on web site. Contact: Bill Freeman 304.267.7151 Paul Gerhardt '86 Concours Centreville, MD - Eastern Shore of MD pgerhardt@XXXXXX _________________________________________________________________ Instant message with integrated webcam using MSN Messenger 6.0. Try it now FREE! http://msnmessenger-download.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 24 22:10:11 2003 Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 19:09:53 -0700 (PDT) From: matthew patton Subject: anyone looking for a good deal on a GS? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX check this puppy out. don't know what the reserve is but looks sharp, it's an '89 with aftermarket can from what I can tell. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2432986207&category=35599 ===== * Love, not time, heals all wounds. * No one is perfect until you fall in love with them. And then when they aren't perfect anymore, love makes them perfect again. * Everyone wants to live on top of the mountain, but all the happiness and growth occurs while you're climbing it * You can not forgive unless you first love. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 24 22:33:24 2003 Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 19:33:20 -0700 (PDT) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Italian Motofest 2003? To: Michael Jordan Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Michael Jordan wrote: > Certamente! > > Forse Sabato, ma e possible Domenica, anche . I thought it was Kobe Bryant who spoke Italian, not Michael Jordan. "Threatened by a Sabatier knife, my mother who is possibly Domenick, sneezed." Or perhaps ate an ancho. That's my best shot and I'm sticking to it. Does that by any chance mean you've gone to one before, and it's worthwhile? Both the Saturday ride and the Sunday show? Tnx... -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 24 23:14:46 2003 Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:14:36 -0700 (PDT) From: matthew patton Subject: more used gear for sale To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX 1. JR Reactor (Phoenix + leather shoulders and back) in yellow, size S or 40. Used one season. $80 2. AGV (I think) lined fall/winter jacket. Size S in red with black panels. $50 3. Hein-Gerike "pro sports" waterproof (I've tested them several times of late) boots in Red with Black. Size 45 which is US11. worn 3 weeks. Look great. Jay's www.motorcycleleatherexchange.com has the same exact boot just in black if you want to see a pic and description. $100 4. Shoei RF800 size M in metalic slate gray. $35 (availability in about a week) Or make me an offer. ===== * Love, not time, heals all wounds. * No one is perfect until you fall in love with them. And then when they aren't perfect anymore, love makes them perfect again. * Everyone wants to live on top of the mountain, but all the happiness and growth occurs while you're climbing it * You can not forgive unless you first love. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 00:11:21 2003 From: "stephen" To: Subject: RE: Servicing harley's Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 00:12:01 -0400 I'm not surprised you've had no trouble getting screws "outta yer Harley." It is my understanding that Hardley's are built with self-extracting screws. ;-) Stephen P.S. For the record, my Jap. twin occasionally suffers the same malignancy. > -----Original Message----- > From: William J. Huson [mailto:bhuson@XXXXXX] > > Never had a problem getting screws outta my Harley, > have been known to Anti-Sieze but not always. > > Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 05:56:04 2003 Subject: RE: Servicing harley's From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 25 Sep 2003 05:51:52 -0400 On Thu, 2003-09-25 at 00:12, stephen wrote: > I'm not surprised you've had no trouble getting screws "outta yer Harley." > It is my understanding that Hardley's are built with self-extracting screws. > ;-) > I replaced the pegs on mine and the screws kept coming loose. After the second time of tightening them up, I applied the rest of the blue loctite I had for a different mod and they haven't budged since. > Stephen > > P.S. For the record, my Jap. twin occasionally suffers the same malignancy. > I removed the plastic on my Suzuki over the weekend and found several screws in various states of tightness. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 06:09:56 2003 Subject: Re: more used gear for sale From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 25 Sep 2003 06:05:46 -0400 Hmm, jacket, jacket, boots and helmet. Are you giving up? ;-) Carl On Wed, 2003-09-24 at 23:14, matthew patton wrote: > 1. JR Reactor (Phoenix + leather shoulders and back) in yellow, size S > or 40. Used one season. $80 > > 2. AGV (I think) lined fall/winter jacket. Size S in red with black > panels. $50 > > 3. Hein-Gerike "pro sports" waterproof (I've tested them several times > of late) boots in Red with Black. Size 45 which is US11. worn 3 weeks. > Look great. Jay's www.motorcycleleatherexchange.com has the same exact > boot just in black if you want to see a pic and description. $100 > > 4. Shoei RF800 size M in metalic slate gray. $35 (availability in about > a week) > > Or make me an offer. > > ===== > * Love, not time, heals all wounds. > > * No one is perfect until you fall in love with them. And then when they aren't perfect anymore, love makes them perfect again. > > * Everyone wants to live on top of the mountain, but all the happiness and growth occurs while you're climbing it > > * You can not forgive unless you first love. > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 06:15:00 2003 Subject: Rita's bike From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 25 Sep 2003 06:10:48 -0400 Well we went for a neighborhood ride Tuesday night. Her complaint is mainly about the size. She looks pretty small on the back of the Honda :-) I followed her around since she has just a permit. We went down to the park on Cloverdale and then came back home. Yesterday she called and mentioned that she'd like to go to Hamburg up in Pennsylvania. My first thought was, "cool, she wants to take her bike for a ride". Followed up by, "hmm, maybe we're taking the car" :-( She likes to visit localish attractions. When she first moved here, she bought a couple of local tour books and mapped out several places that we visited. So last night we talked and sure enough, she's talking about taking her bike. She's whipping out Streets and Trips and mapping out a good route for a Sunday drive (non-freeway all the way up). This should be interesting :-) Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 06:40:34 2003 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 06:39:22 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: stephen CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Servicing harley's Hardy har har... Actually, haven't had a single thing fall apart of the Hawg. But maybe the regular dissassembly to fuss with this or that keeps screws viable. Bill stephen wrote: > I'm not surprised you've had no trouble getting screws "outta yer Harley." > It is my understanding that Hardley's are built with self-extracting screws. > ;-) > > Stephen > > P.S. For the record, my Jap. twin occasionally suffers the same malignancy. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 06:46:30 2003 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 03:46:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Sean Steele Subject: Insurance sticker shock To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX What should I expect to pay in comprehensive insurance on a standard bike, relatively late model, no moving infractions, kept in the city, with modest deductibles? I'm getting quotes now and they seem ridiculous to me. Think double what I pay for auto insurance. Any thoughts? -Sean __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 06:53:00 2003 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 06:51:47 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: Naugahide - thanks all Especially for the educational bites on the life and times of the Nauga and Neet. Reading your posts I had a brainstorm - Upholstery - aha! A new keyword search. I'd been looking under fabric, so I thunked the yaller pages down and looked up Upholstery and made a few phone calls to shops near me (Annandale). Success! Sparkle Upholstery on General Washington Drive, a few easy miles from home port. The sweet young miss showed me tons oc swatches and I picked one out, should be here today. Now the fun part, cutting, trimming, and playing with spray glue. Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 07:07:08 2003 Subject: Re: Insurance sticker shock From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 25 Sep 2003 07:03:00 -0400 2002 Harley - $47 1995 Suzuki - $33 2004 Honda - dunno yet. I can't imagine it being more than either of the others. I expect around $25. All per month and similar to your requirements. Age? We're 46/49. State Farm. We have the car and the home owners insurance through them (which only reduces the auto insurance by $10 or so). Carl On Thu, 2003-09-25 at 06:46, Sean Steele wrote: > What should I expect to pay in comprehensive insurance > on a standard bike, relatively late model, no moving > infractions, kept in the city, with modest > deductibles? > > I'm getting quotes now and they seem ridiculous to me. > Think double what I pay for auto insurance. > > Any thoughts? > > -Sean > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search > http://shopping.yahoo.com > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 07:36:31 2003 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 04:36:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Insurance sticker shock To: Sean Steele , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Sean Steele wrote: > What should I expect to pay in comprehensive insurance > on a standard bike, relatively late model, no moving > infractions, kept in the city, with modest > deductibles? > > I'm getting quotes now and they seem ridiculous to me. > Think double what I pay for auto insurance. > > Any thoughts? > > -Sean comprehensive coverage in the city is extremely pricey. (this should give you a hint as to the likelihood of the bike being stolen). in fact, some insurers won't even place such coverage in the district. and, if the bike IS stolen, it'll be even tougher to find coverage for its replacement. call around though, and be sure to include state farm in your search. a virginia or maryland address would go a long way towards solving this problem for you. ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940-A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 07:40:19 2003 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 07:40:01 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: cschelin@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: more used gear for sale X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 Sounds like he's selling for someone else by the sounds of the helmet description. I could be wrong though. Scooter In a message dated 9/25/2003 6:05:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time, cschelin@XXXXXX writes: > > > Hmm, jacket, jacket, boots and helmet. Are you giving up? ;-) > > Carl > > On Wed, 2003-09-24 at 23:14, matthew patton wrote: > > 1. JR Reactor (Phoenix + leather shoulders and back) in yellow, size S > > or 40. Used one season. $80 > > > > 2. AGV (I think) lined fall/winter jacket. Size S in red with black > > panels. $50 > > > > 3. Hein-Gerike "pro sports" waterproof (I've tested them several times > > of late) boots in Red with Black. Size 45 which is US11. worn 3 weeks. > > Look great. Jay's www.motorcycleleatherexchange.com has the same exact > > boot just in black if you want to see a pic and description. $100 > > > > 4. Shoei RF800 size M in metalic slate gray. $35 (availability in about > > a week) > > > > Or make me an offer. > > > > ===== > > * Love, not time, heals all wounds. > > > > * No one is perfect until you fall in love with them. And then when they aren't perfect anymore, love makes them perfect again. > > > > * Everyone wants to live on top of the mountain, but all the happiness and growth occurs while you're climbing it > > > > * You can not forgive unless you first love. > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design > software > > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 07:43:41 2003 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 04:43:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Insurance sticker shock To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX are you in dc? does age have anything to do with comprehensive coverage? value plus zip code seem to be the relevant variables. comprehensive on my ducati recently doubled when my address changed by 3 miles and 1 zip code. --- Carl Schelin wrote: > 2002 Harley - $47 > 1995 Suzuki - $33 > 2004 Honda - dunno yet. I can't imagine it being more > than either of the > others. I expect around $25. > > All per month and similar to your requirements. Age? > We're 46/49. State > Farm. We have the car and the home owners insurance > through them (which > only reduces the auto insurance by $10 or so). > > Carl > > On Thu, 2003-09-25 at 06:46, Sean Steele wrote: > > What should I expect to pay in comprehensive insurance > > on a standard bike, relatively late model, no moving > > infractions, kept in the city, with modest > > deductibles? > > > > I'm getting quotes now and they seem ridiculous to me. > > Think double what I pay for auto insurance. > > > > Any thoughts? > > > > -Sean > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search > > http://shopping.yahoo.com > > > ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940-A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 07:58:56 2003 Subject: Re: Insurance sticker shock From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 25 Sep 2003 07:54:48 -0400 On Thu, 2003-09-25 at 07:43, Tom Gimer wrote: > are you in dc? does age have anything to do with > comprehensive coverage? > Nope. I don't know if age has anything to do. Since he didn't mention it, I thought I'd comment on the potential difference. While rewriting the sentence, I forgot to mention the VA vs DC aspect as well. > value plus zip code seem to be the relevant variables. > comprehensive on my ducati recently doubled when my address > changed by 3 miles and 1 zip code. > I agree. If I knew that my insurance was $2000 in the city and $500 in VA, I might consider moving :-) Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 08:04:42 2003 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 08:04:35 -0400 From: "Chris Norloff" Reply-To: To: "List-dc cycles" Subject: Loud Pipes Risk Rights My response to Dr Gridlock's column today with a letter promoting loud pipes http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/metro/columns/drgridlock/ Loud pipes save lives? Loud exhaust on motorcycles do a poor job of saving lives - as promoted by the writer on September 25 - but are unfortunately effective at risking rights of motorcyclists. Noise is a common complaint about some motorcycles and has led to bans of all motorcycles on both public and private property. Loud pipes risk rights. To be noticed in today's mix of traffic, a motorcyclist must adjust his or her position in the lane and relative to other traffic. Wearing bright colors and using the headlight also make it easier to be seen. My motorcycles have always been as quiet as a car. If I want to be heard I use the horn. That's what it's there for. Chris Norloff From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 08:06:21 2003 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 08:19:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Sean Steele Cc: Subject: Re: Insurance sticker shock On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, Sean Steele wrote: > What should I expect to pay in comprehensive insurance > on a standard bike, relatively late model, no moving > infractions, kept in the city, with modest > deductibles? Age, driving record, location and bike size/type make these comparisons difficult :-) Are you a youngun? Bad driving record? As Carl mentioned, having all of your insurance with a single company is usually helpful. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 08:11:10 2003 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 05:11:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Risk Rights To: cnorloff@XXXXXX, List-dc cycles sorry, but i agree with the other side. and it makes little sense for motorcyclists to be fighting amongst themselves. --- Chris Norloff wrote: > My response to Dr Gridlock's column today with a letter > promoting loud pipes > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/metro/columns/drgridlock/ > > > Loud pipes save lives? Loud exhaust on motorcycles do a > poor job of saving lives - as promoted by the writer on > September 25 - but are unfortunately effective at risking > rights of motorcyclists. Noise is a common complaint > about some motorcycles and has led to bans of all > motorcycles on both public and private property. Loud > pipes risk rights. > > To be noticed in today's mix of traffic, a motorcyclist > must adjust his or her position in the lane and relative > to other traffic. Wearing bright colors and using the > headlight also make it easier to be seen. > > My motorcycles have always been as quiet as a car. If I > want to be heard I use the horn. That's what it's there > for. > > Chris Norloff > > ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940-A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 08:27:27 2003 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 05:27:17 -0700 (PDT) From: "Louis F. Caplan" Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Risk Rights To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I didn't have much of an opinion on this subject until my aunt's second husband came up to me and started talking about the people across the street from him. Apparently they fire up their Harley's early on Saturday and Sunday mornings. And they have the loud exhaust pipes. They wake him up every time. He lives in a small sea side community in Connecticut, and wanted to get motorcycles banned. He was letting me know not to ride my motorcycle when I visit them. After talking with him for a while, I got him to agree that it wasn't MOTORCYCLES that were a problem, but NOISE that was a problem. I started up my Concours and he was surprised at how quiet a motorcycle could be. I don't know if he ever went ahead and tried to set up a ban, or a noise ordinance or anything (I don't talk to him much), but the fact that he (and others) find it easier to just ban all motorcycles rather than digging to the root of the problem (loud noise) makes me agree with Chris. Louis --- Tom Gimer wrote: > sorry, but i agree with the other side. and it makes > little sense for motorcyclists to be fighting amongst > themselves. > > > > > --- Chris Norloff wrote: > > My response to Dr Gridlock's column today with a letter > > promoting loud pipes > > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/metro/columns/drgridlock/ > > > > > > Loud pipes save lives? Loud exhaust on motorcycles do a > > poor job of saving lives - as promoted by the writer on > > September 25 - but are unfortunately effective at risking > > rights of motorcyclists. Noise is a common complaint > > about some motorcycles and has led to bans of all > > motorcycles on both public and private property. Loud > > pipes risk rights. > > > > To be noticed in today's mix of traffic, a motorcyclist > > must adjust his or her position in the lane and relative > > to other traffic. Wearing bright colors and using the > > headlight also make it easier to be seen. > > > > My motorcycles have always been as quiet as a car. If I > > want to be heard I use the horn. That's what it's there > > for. > > > > Chris Norloff ===== "Admiral" Louis Caplan 1998 Kawasaki Concours Fairfax, VA Please consider helping me support the Pediatrics Brain Tumor Foundation http://www.geocities.com/nighthawk700/rideforkids.htm __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 08:28:20 2003 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 05:28:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Sean Steele Subject: Re: Insurance sticker shock To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Yep, in DC. I'm 28. Course I have a sister located just across the state line in Arlington... maybe I can "garage" my bike there? The insurance company I have my auto insurance with quoted me $1200+ which seems crazy to me. -Sean --- Tom Gimer wrote: > are you in dc? does age have anything to do with > comprehensive coverage? > > value plus zip code seem to be the relevant > variables. > comprehensive on my ducati recently doubled when my > address > changed by 3 miles and 1 zip code. > > > --- Carl Schelin wrote: > > 2002 Harley - $47 > > 1995 Suzuki - $33 > > 2004 Honda - dunno yet. I can't imagine it being > more > > than either of the > > others. I expect around $25. > > > > All per month and similar to your requirements. > Age? > > We're 46/49. State > > Farm. We have the car and the home owners > insurance > > through them (which > > only reduces the auto insurance by $10 or so). > > > > Carl > > > > On Thu, 2003-09-25 at 06:46, Sean Steele wrote: > > > What should I expect to pay in comprehensive > insurance > > > on a standard bike, relatively late model, no > moving > > > infractions, kept in the city, with modest > > > deductibles? > > > > > > I'm getting quotes now and they seem ridiculous > to me. > > > Think double what I pay for auto insurance. > > > > > > Any thoughts? > > > > > > -Sean > > > > > > __________________________________ > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product > search > > > http://shopping.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > ===== > Thomas H. Gimer > MURPHY & GIMER, LLC > 7940-A Wisconsin Avenue > Bethesda, MD 20814 > 301 913-0060; 301 913-5415 (fax) > http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 08:33:12 2003 Reply-To: From: "Jim McGonigle" To: "'Sean Steele'" , Subject: RE: Insurance sticker shock Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 08:32:13 -0400 What's a "standard" bike? Insurance companies group things differently and some bikes go into the "high risk" category pretty quick. Your rate is high, but not that high considering DC. > -----Original Message----- > From: Sean Steele [mailto:seanwebmail@XXXXXX] > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2003 8:28 AM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Insurance sticker shock > > > Yep, in DC. I'm 28. > > Course I have a sister located just across the state > line in Arlington... maybe I can "garage" my bike > there? > > The insurance company I have my auto insurance with > quoted me $1200+ which seems crazy to me. > > -Sean > > --- Tom Gimer wrote: > > are you in dc? does age have anything to do with > > comprehensive coverage? > > > > value plus zip code seem to be the relevant > > variables. > > comprehensive on my ducati recently doubled when my > > address > > changed by 3 miles and 1 zip code. > > > > > > --- Carl Schelin wrote: > > > 2002 Harley - $47 > > > 1995 Suzuki - $33 > > > 2004 Honda - dunno yet. I can't imagine it being > > more > > > than either of the > > > others. I expect around $25. > > > > > > All per month and similar to your requirements. > > Age? > > > We're 46/49. State > > > Farm. We have the car and the home owners > > insurance > > > through them (which > > > only reduces the auto insurance by $10 or so). > > > > > > Carl > > > > > > On Thu, 2003-09-25 at 06:46, Sean Steele wrote: > > > > What should I expect to pay in comprehensive > > insurance > > > > on a standard bike, relatively late model, no > > moving > > > > infractions, kept in the city, with modest > > > > deductibles? > > > > > > > > I'm getting quotes now and they seem ridiculous > > to me. > > > > Think double what I pay for auto insurance. > > > > > > > > Any thoughts? > > > > > > > > -Sean > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product > > search > > > > http://shopping.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > ===== > > Thomas H. Gimer > > MURPHY & GIMER, LLC > > 7940-A Wisconsin Avenue > > Bethesda, MD 20814 > > 301 913-0060; 301 913-5415 (fax) > > http://www.murphygimer.com > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search > http://shopping.yahoo.com > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 08:37:03 2003 Reply-To: From: "Jim McGonigle" To: Subject: Ear Buds Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 08:36:09 -0400 Got a MP3 player and I wanted to listen while commuting in the morning. I did it this morning with the provided ear buds and after a while they began to hurt from the pressure from the helmet. Anyone use earbuds that work well in this situation? Don't want to spend a fortune, just something that sounds decent and doesn't hurt. Thanks, -Jim From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 08:40:25 2003 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 08:40:20 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Michael Jordan Reply-To: Michael Jordan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Italian Motofest 2003? Not a bad translation - better than anything that I could have come up with. I went a year or two ago - nice show. Will try for the Saturday ride this year and hit the Sunday open house. I will, unfortunately, be on a Japanese bike vs an Itanial one :-( Michael J. -----Original Message----- From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Sent: Sep 24, 2003 10:33 PM To: Michael Jordan Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Italian Motofest 2003? --- Michael Jordan wrote: > Certamente! > > Forse Sabato, ma e possible Domenica, anche . I thought it was Kobe Bryant who spoke Italian, not Michael Jordan. "Threatened by a Sabatier knife, my mother who is possibly Domenick, sneezed." Or perhaps ate an ancho. That's my best shot and I'm sticking to it. Does that by any chance mean you've gone to one before, and it's worthwhile? Both the Saturday ride and the Sunday show? Tnx... -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 08:40:42 2003 Subject: Loud Pipes etc. From: Carl Schelin To: drgridlock@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 25 Sep 2003 08:36:34 -0400 Dear Dr. Gridlock, I think you'll find motorcyclists have their own opinions on whether or not loud pipes save lives. In my opinion, a combination of factors help save my life. Being well lit, mainly in the front keep me visible to the left turn folks who seem to kill most of the motorcyclists in the area. Wearing reflective gear keeps me visible to the folks behind me. Lane position and defensive driving keeps me from being sideswiped. On one of my bikes I have louder pipes. Not stock and not straight pipes, two extremes. I've noticed that folks next to me certainly notice me since they put their shoulder up to hold their cell phone to their ears and roll up their windows while driving on 95. I haven't had to beep my horn or take defensive action (to avoid being hit) in months, hopefully because of all of the factors I've listed above. Why not concentrate on the inconsiderate folks who flip their cigarette butts out of their windows. It confuses them when I beep and shake my fist after avoiding the filthy thing. Until you've had one hit your face shield, sparks flying, you'll never understand the fear and anger that this generates. And just because theres no one behind you right now doesn't mean it isn't a danger. I saw a butt fly up into the air after a SUV drove over it. The butt arched over my head and back onto the ground behind me. With regards to your comments to Ms Harvey: I'm not sure how to turn off louder pipes in parking lots or residental areas. My pipes are legal and have passed inspection. But I also don't race my bikes up and down residental streets and am considerate and keep the revolutions low on the way out to work at 5am. PS to Mr. Theroux in his hybrid: Perhaps the woman behind you was upset that you were being inconsiderate and driving in the left passing lane instead of the right lane. In some places what you're doing is illegal. Be considerate, move to the right. Carl Schelin Motorcyclist Dale City, VA From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 09:17:03 2003 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 06:16:53 -0700 (PDT) From: matthew patton Subject: Re: more used gear for sale To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: > Sounds like he's selling for someone else by the sounds of the helmet > description. I could be wrong though. nope, all of it's mine. the helmet just happens to be my daily lid so I'm not about to sell it without having a replacement on hand (or on the way) so I don't have to stop riding my bike is all. I have too much duplicate/overlapping gear. Trying to dump it. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 09:22:14 2003 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'Leon Begeman'" , "'DCCycles'" , "'SabMag'" Subject: Chinese bikes Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 09:25:52 -0400 Leon Begeman bantered languidly, "Of course they have top cases. They split lanes in China. You'll notice that none of the bikes have saddlebags." . CC: Or if they did . . . Oh & belated congratulations on your IBR finish. Twelfth place on a 250. . LB: "Did you notice that the #97 NASCAR formerly sponsored by John Deere is now sponsored by Rubbermaid?" CC: And I noticed that: 1. You still had a Rubbermaid "Action Packer" on your mighty Ninja 250. . 2. No John Deere colors? . 3. Two 800s and a Venture beat you out! How can you live that down? 8^D. Congratulations. Carl in Bethesda From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 09:24:14 2003 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Ear Buds Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 09:12:35 -0400 As seen on DC Cycles: Koss "the ear plug" $25 from Circuit City. Ditch the black ear plug they provide, provide you're own foam ear plugs. You can make the whole in the ear plug by heating up a nail and pushing it through. Things work like a charm. I listen to the radio almost everytime I'm on the bike. At a very reasonable level too. >From: "Jim McGonigle" >Reply-To: >To: >Subject: Ear Buds >Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 08:36:09 -0400 > >Got a MP3 player and I wanted to listen while commuting in the morning. >I did it this morning with the provided ear buds and after a while they >began to hurt from the pressure from the helmet. Anyone use earbuds that >work well in this situation? Don't want to spend a fortune, just >something that sounds decent and doesn't hurt. >Thanks, >-Jim _________________________________________________________________ Add MSN 8 Internet Software to your existing Internet access and enjoy patented spam protection and more. Sign up now! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/byoa From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 09:25:45 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: Re: Servicing harley's Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 09:25:32 -0400 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec7998aaa19658d9923222ad7f601670fc29350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Bill Guffawed: > Hardy har har... Actually, haven't had a single thing fall apart of the Hawg. > But maybe the regular dissassembly to fuss with this or that keeps screws > viable. [Dave] I heard recently that 85% of Harleys are still on the road... the other 15% made it home ... heard it from a HD owner... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 09:25:56 2003 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 09:25:29 -0400 From: Dale Horstman To: DC Cycles Subject: [Fwd: LDRider: FitE IX] FYI, Bryan Moody is still taking registrations for the upcoming Feast in the East. I have always had a good time on Bryan's rallies. There's usually a few folks from the DC cycles list entered. See some of you there, maybe? Hork -- Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark) Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX '98 Concours - BugSlayer Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth '99 Concours - Grape Nehi CM #001 NRA IBA COG '82 GS850G - Neat old bike The Mason Dixon 20-20 Endurance Rally: The Games People Play Come join us in 2004: http://www.masondixon20-20.org > Feast in the East IX registration is still open for you slackers waiting > until the last minute. > > Those stories you may have heard about the previous Feasts held in > Morganton and Statesville? The ones about monster roads, breathtaking > scenery, and cut-throat competition? How about the great food and > tire-kicking sessions? All of those stories are true. This year will be > no exception. I've reached deep into the backwoods of NC, VA, KY, GA, TN, > and WV to find some of the most exceptional riding areas in the Eastern USA. > > After the rally, there will be food in abundance for both riders and > non-riders, just as a proper Feast should. But to enjoy... first you've > got to register. > > FitE IX > Format: 11 hour mini-rally -or- Ride to Eat > Bonuses given out 7 days in advance > No set route, no mandatory bonuses other than the odo check > Trophies to the top five finishers > October 17-18, 2003 > Statesville, NC > > http://www.automated-design.com/feast > > Bryan Moody > FitE IX Rallymaster > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 09:28:23 2003 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 09:27:07 -0400 Subject: Re: Italian Motofest 2003? From: Richard Westbrook To: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" , I'm most likely going up this Sunday, with a buddy, if anyone would like to join. Not sure what time yet but we'll probably be meeting in the Delray/Alexandria area. -Rich 95 vfr > From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" > Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:45:02 -0700 (PDT) > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Italian Motofest 2003? > > Anyone riding up to the Italian Motofest in Shepherdstown > this weekend? > > -- Larry > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 09:30:28 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Louis F. Caplan" , Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Risk Rights Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 09:26:47 -0400 The acid test for the "loud pipes save lives" is the following. Let's say by some miracle, multiple vehicle crashes involving motorcycles dropped significantly. Yeah, suspend your disbelief. Would the "loud pipes" crew pledge to revert to stock? Yeah, right. And as far as I know, loud pipes don't solve the problem of the single MC crash and impaired riders. To me "loud pipes" are a fashion statement gussied up as a necessity. If you like 'em, fine, but don't try to peddle a safety justification. I have an aftermarket pipe that brings out the V4 "character", i.e., it's louder than stock. I put it on because I like the way it looks and sounds, I'm under no illusions that I'm safer. 'Nuff said. Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - louder than stock 86 VF500F - sewing machine www.wilsonline.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Louis F. Caplan" To: Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2003 8:27 AM Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Risk Rights > > I didn't have much of an opinion on this subject until my aunt's second husband > came up to me and started talking about the people across the street from him. > Apparently they fire up their Harley's early on Saturday and Sunday mornings. > And they have the loud exhaust pipes. They wake him up every time. He lives > in a small sea side community in Connecticut, and wanted to get motorcycles > banned. He was letting me know not to ride my motorcycle when I visit them. > > After talking with him for a while, I got him to agree that it wasn't > MOTORCYCLES that were a problem, but NOISE that was a problem. I started up my > Concours and he was surprised at how quiet a motorcycle could be. > > I don't know if he ever went ahead and tried to set up a ban, or a noise > ordinance or anything (I don't talk to him much), but the fact that he (and > others) find it easier to just ban all motorcycles rather than digging to the > root of the problem (loud noise) makes me agree with Chris. > > Louis > > --- Tom Gimer wrote: > > sorry, but i agree with the other side. and it makes > > little sense for motorcyclists to be fighting amongst > > themselves. > > > > > > > > > > --- Chris Norloff wrote: > > > My response to Dr Gridlock's column today with a letter > > > promoting loud pipes > > > > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/metro/columns/drgridlock/ > > > > > > > > > Loud pipes save lives? Loud exhaust on motorcycles do a > > > poor job of saving lives - as promoted by the writer on > > > September 25 - but are unfortunately effective at risking > > > rights of motorcyclists. Noise is a common complaint > > > about some motorcycles and has led to bans of all > > > motorcycles on both public and private property. Loud > > > pipes risk rights. > > > > > > To be noticed in today's mix of traffic, a motorcyclist > > > must adjust his or her position in the lane and relative > > > to other traffic. Wearing bright colors and using the > > > headlight also make it easier to be seen. > > > > > > My motorcycles have always been as quiet as a car. If I > > > want to be heard I use the horn. That's what it's there > > > for. > > > > > > Chris Norloff > > > ===== > "Admiral" Louis Caplan 1998 Kawasaki Concours Fairfax, VA > Please consider helping me support the Pediatrics Brain Tumor Foundation > http://www.geocities.com/nighthawk700/rideforkids.htm > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search > http://shopping.yahoo.com > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 09:30:30 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Sean Steele" , Subject: Re: Insurance sticker shock Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 09:29:21 -0400 I pay about five bills a year for the VFR, full coverage, no garage, $500 deductible. Check out Markel, www.bike-line.com Some insurance companies don't really want to cover bikes and price their premiums accordingly. Also, falsifying your place of residence, or more accurately where the vehicle is "garaged," constitutes insurance fraud. Don't do it. All that money you "saved" will go out the window when the carrier denies a claim because you embroidered the truth on your application. Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sean Steele" > Yep, in DC. I'm 28. > > Course I have a sister located just across the state > line in Arlington... maybe I can "garage" my bike > there? > > The insurance company I have my auto insurance with > quoted me $1200+ which seems crazy to me. > > -Sean From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 09:33:12 2003 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 09:32:51 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: seanwebmail@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Insurance sticker shock X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 That's what I do. I have my sisters house in Manassas listed as where I "garage" the bike. Saves me about $1500 a year on insurance. You need to register the bike at that address before you can get insurance for it there. As a result, I pay VA Property tax ($46 this year) and have to get the county sticker ($10). My Insurance company (Allstate) is cool about listing my DC address as the billing address. Scooter In a message dated 9/25/2003 8:28:11 AM Eastern Daylight Time, seanwebmail@XXXXXX writes: > > > Yep, in DC. I'm 28. > > Course I have a sister located just across the state > line in Arlington... maybe I can "garage" my bike > there? > > The insurance company I have my auto insurance with > quoted me $1200+ which seems crazy to me. > > -Sean > > --- Tom Gimer wrote: > > are you in dc? does age have anything to do with > > comprehensive coverage? > > > > value plus zip code seem to be the relevant > > variables. > > comprehensive on my ducati recently doubled when my > > address > > changed by 3 miles and 1 zip code. > > > > > > --- Carl Schelin wrote: > > > 2002 Harley - $47 > > > 1995 Suzuki - $33 > > > 2004 Honda - dunno yet. I can't imagine it being > > more > > > than either of the > > > others. I expect around $25. > > > > > > All per month and similar to your requirements. > > Age? > > > We're 46/49. State > > > Farm. We have the car and the home owners > > insurance > > > through them (which > > > only reduces the auto insurance by $10 or so). > > > > > > Carl > > > > > > On Thu, 2003-09-25 at 06:46, Sean Steele wrote: > > > > What should I expect to pay in comprehensive > > insurance > > > > on a standard bike, relatively late model, no > > moving > > > > infractions, kept in the city, with modest > > > > deductibles? > > > > > > > > I'm getting quotes now and they seem ridiculous > > to me. > > > > Think double what I pay for auto insurance. > > > > > > > > Any thoughts? > > > > > > > > -Sean > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product > > search > > > > http://shopping.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > ===== > > Thomas H. Gimer > > MURPHY & GIMER, LLC > > 7940-A Wisconsin Avenue > > Bethesda, MD 20814 > > 301 913-0060; 301 913-5415 (fax) > > http://www.murphygimer.com > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search > http://shopping.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 09:34:00 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: Re: Insurance sticker shock Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 09:33:47 -0400 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec796221f102683b738fe2416eb91976176e350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Sean, The "new" ness of the bike also counts. When I bought my ZX11, several eons ago, I shopped new, had no problem with $$$ - BUT insurance quotes were 2800 - 4k / year :-O I was going to bail, and save for a few months, when I started noticing C model 11's ( pre '93) so I priced them - I got full coverage for ~$1200 / year no tickets, 24 at the time... I was also not in the city, and in a low cage theft area. My insurance on the bikes consistently went down from there every year despite my cage insurance staying close to the same. Arlington would be cheaper, and certainly a used bike would also be cheaper... HTH Dave > Yep, in DC. I'm 28. > > Course I have a sister located just across the state > line in Arlington... maybe I can "garage" my bike > there? > > The insurance company I have my auto insurance with > quoted me $1200+ which seems crazy to me. > > -Sean > > --- Tom Gimer wrote: > > are you in dc? does age have anything to do with > > comprehensive coverage? > > > > value plus zip code seem to be the relevant > > variables. > > comprehensive on my ducati recently doubled when my > > address > > changed by 3 miles and 1 zip code. > > > > > > --- Carl Schelin wrote: > > > 2002 Harley - $47 > > > 1995 Suzuki - $33 > > > 2004 Honda - dunno yet. I can't imagine it being > > more > > > than either of the > > > others. I expect around $25. > > > > > > All per month and similar to your requirements. > > Age? > > > We're 46/49. State > > > Farm. We have the car and the home owners > > insurance > > > through them (which > > > only reduces the auto insurance by $10 or so). > > > > > > Carl > > > > > > On Thu, 2003-09-25 at 06:46, Sean Steele wrote: > > > > What should I expect to pay in comprehensive > > insurance > > > > on a standard bike, relatively late model, no > > moving > > > > infractions, kept in the city, with modest > > > > deductibles? > > > > > > > > I'm getting quotes now and they seem ridiculous > > to me. > > > > Think double what I pay for auto insurance. > > > > > > > > Any thoughts? > > > > > > > > -Sean > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product > > search > > > > http://shopping.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > ===== > > Thomas H. Gimer > > MURPHY & GIMER, LLC > > 7940-A Wisconsin Avenue > > Bethesda, MD 20814 > > 301 913-0060; 301 913-5415 (fax) > > http://www.murphygimer.com > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search > http://shopping.yahoo.com > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 09:41:50 2003 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 09:41:32 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: jmcgonigle@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Ear Buds X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 This is what I use with my MP3 player on the bike. http://www.koss.com/koss/kossweb.nsf/02ProductDetailCall?ReadForm&Portable+Stereophones^THEPLUG Works like a combination earplug/headphone. Works really good with great sound quality. Better than anything else I've tried. It comes with extra ear pieces, in different shapes, so you can find the ones that fit you best. I believe Mark Kitchell also uses them. I have yet to find them in a store though. I had to order mine through Koss. Hope this helps. Scooter In a message dated 9/25/2003 8:36:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jmcgonigle@XXXXXX writes: > > > Got a MP3 player and I wanted to listen while commuting in the morning. > I did it this morning with the provided ear buds and after a while they > began to hurt from the pressure from the helmet. Anyone use earbuds that > work well in this situation? Don't want to spend a fortune, > just > something that sounds decent and doesn't hurt. > > Thanks, > -Jim From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 09:41:50 2003 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 06:41:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Weaver Subject: Re: Ear Buds To: jmcgonigle@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX I use two of the Nike "PSA" units - the MP3 player and the FM radio. (They're made by Philips) The earphones that come with them actually work pretty well inside the helmet. The earphones are connected by a headpiece, but it's the kind that's intended to hang under the chin or behind the neck. With a helmet, you can wear it under the chin and it will fit well inside all but the tightest helmets. The Nike units themselves are pretty good too - the FM player gets much better reception than any other portable FM unit I've tried. The volume level is plenty on both units, even with an aftermarket exhaust. The units only use a single AAA battery and battery life is pretty good. Another plus is the armband that comes with each one - if you don't have a tankbag to put it in (the buttons are all accessible through a map pocket), you can just strap it to your arm. As you can tell, I recommend 'em. http://www.nike-philips.com/ Chris Weaver --- Jim McGonigle wrote: > Got a MP3 player and I wanted to listen while > commuting in the morning. > I did it this morning with the provided ear buds and > after a while they > began to hurt from the pressure from the helmet. > Anyone use earbuds that > work well in this situation? Don't want to spend a > fortune, just > something that sounds decent and doesn't hurt. > > Thanks, > -Jim > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 09:54:17 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: Re: Insurance sticker shock Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 09:54:01 -0400 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79f56888ecf41244782f67951c74a2d5dc350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c > Also, falsifying your place of residence, or more accurately where the > vehicle is "garaged," constitutes insurance fraud. Don't do it. All that > money you "saved" will go out the window when the carrier denies a claim > because you embroidered the truth on your application. [Dave] It is however perfectly legal to register a vehicle in a state in which it will be primarily used, and stored. I tried to do this a few months in advance of me actually moving into VA, but ended up needing more paper and leg work than I had patience for. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 09:59:09 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Risk Rights Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 09:58:57 -0400 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79fb1b5d3e238244f5a4f53f48a0bc8607350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c > The acid test for the "loud pipes save lives" is the following. Let's say > by some miracle, multiple vehicle crashes involving motorcycles dropped > significantly. Yeah, suspend your disbelief. Would the "loud pipes" crew > pledge to revert to stock? Yeah, right. [Dave] Just out of curiosity, what RIGHT is risked by running loud pipes ? Annoying as all get out to have some no baffle or Muzzys pipe fire up next to you, but, the alternative is more heavily regulating... Dave From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 10:03:34 2003 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:07:18 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "Kathleen E. Miller" Subject: Re: Insurance sticker shock Hi all, new to list - first posting. Try Dairyland, aka Sentry. They have a special coverage for bikes. http://www.sentry.com/preferred_motorcycle_insurance.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 10:03:34 2003 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:03:24 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: pattonme@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: more used gear for sale X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 You may want to hold onto the helmet until this Saturday. Coleman PoserSport....errrrr....I mean PowerSport, is having an Open House this weekend and offering 25% off a new helmet with a used helmet trade-in. Don't know what they're doing with the used helmets, probably being donated to the MSF, but I don't think it's a bad deal. Even for Coleman. :-) I know what you mean about extra gear. I have an entire closet full but, I wear it all depending on the weather and where I'm going. Currently in my closet I have: 6 Jackets 4 Pairs of Pants 4 Helmets 3 Pairs of Boots 5 or 6 Pairs of Gloves 1 Pair of Chaps (yeah, I know. Chaps on an R6) 1 One-piece suit I'm actually gonna give a jacket, matching pants and helmet that I haven't worn in about 1-1/2 years to my neighbors kid up in PA. He's going on 15 and has been riding dirtbikes since he was probably 6 or 7. Last time I was up in PA, I gave him a thrill by letting him ride the bike around an industrial park for about 20-30 minutes. He had the bike leaned in nice with his knee out like a pro racer. The grin on his face was so wide that it could've blinded oncoming traffic. He probably had a hard-on for at least 30 minutes. LOL He even washed and detailed my bike as a Thank You. His dad has a GoldWing and he wants to get a sportbike as soon as he turns 16. Of course his dad, who's insane anyway and wheelied my bike 3 times, has no objections to it. ;-) Oughta be an interesting birthday as he will be going for his drivers, motorcycle and pilots license. =8-0 Scooter (corruptor of young children :-)) In a message dated 9/25/2003 9:16:53 AM Eastern Daylight Time, pattonme@XXXXXX writes: > > > > --- ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: > > Sounds like he's selling for someone else by the sounds of the helmet > > description. I could be wrong though. > > nope, all of it's mine. the helmet just happens to be my daily lid so > I'm not about to sell it without having a replacement on hand (or on > the way) so I don't have to stop riding my bike is all. I > have too much > duplicate/overlapping gear. Trying to dump it. > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search > http://shopping.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 10:04:49 2003 Reply-To: wayne@XXXXXX From: "wayne@XXXXXX" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Ear Buds Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:04:42 -0400 This is what I use, too. I picked mine up at Best Buy. I think the foam pieces suck, great tip on creating new ones, Rich. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ Original Message: ----------------- From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX This is what I use with my MP3 player on the bike. http://www.koss.com/koss/kossweb.nsf/02ProductDetailCall?ReadForm&Portable+S tereophones^THEPLUG -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 10:14:30 2003 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 07:14:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Insurance sticker shock To: Paul Wilson , Sean Steele , dc-cycles@XXXXXX you're simplifying things. an individual "resides" where he intends to make his home for the indefinite future. if mr. steele wants to reside in virginia at his sister's house while at the same time maintaining an apartment in the district, he can do it. of course, as a virginia resident, mr. steele will want to pay virginia's income and property taxes. btw, i ain't anybody here's lawyer (except of course those of you who i actually represent) and this ain't legal advice. --- Paul Wilson wrote: > I pay about five bills a year for the VFR, full coverage, > no garage, $500 > deductible. Check out Markel, www.bike-line.com Some > insurance companies > don't really want to cover bikes and price their premiums > accordingly. > > Also, falsifying your place of residence, or more > accurately where the > vehicle is "garaged," constitutes insurance fraud. Don't > do it. All that > money you "saved" will go out the window when the carrier > denies a claim > because you embroidered the truth on your application. > > Paul in DC > 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sean Steele" > > > > Yep, in DC. I'm 28. > > > > Course I have a sister located just across the state > > line in Arlington... maybe I can "garage" my bike > > there? > > > > The insurance company I have my auto insurance with > > quoted me $1200+ which seems crazy to me. > > > > -Sean > ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940-A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 10:19:49 2003 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:19:36 -0400 From: Skip To: Paul Wilson CC: "Louis F. Caplan" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Risk Rights Paul Wilson wrote: > To me "loud pipes" are a fashion statement gussied up as a necessity. If > you like 'em, fine, but don't try to peddle a safety justification. I have > an aftermarket pipe that brings out the V4 "character", i.e., it's louder > than stock. I put it on because I like the way it looks and sounds, I'm > under no illusions that I'm safer. 'Nuff said. now, tailpipe whistles... *those* save lives! --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 10:20:46 2003 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:20:29 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: chris_vtr@XXXXXX, jmcgonigle@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Ear Buds X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 I just bought the Rio Sport S30 unit which is both an MP3 and FM radio. It uses SD Memory chips so, you can have all the music you want. I bought a 256MB card for it and have 10-12 hours of music readily available. I'm like you with the armband. However, I use it around my leg a couple inches above the knee. Works great and puts the player in a position to reach the buttons easily and see what you're doing. Here's their website: http://www.digitalnetworksna.com/shop/_templates/cat_list_Rio.asp?cat=54 Scooter In a message dated 9/25/2003 9:41:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time, chris_vtr@XXXXXX writes: > > > I use two of the Nike "PSA" units - the MP3 player and > the FM radio. (They're made by Philips) The earphones > that come with them actually work pretty well inside > the helmet. The earphones are connected by a > headpiece, but it's the kind that's intended to hang > under the chin or behind the neck. With a helmet, you > can wear it under the chin and it will fit well inside > all but the tightest helmets. > > The Nike units themselves are pretty good too - the FM > player gets much better reception than any other > portable FM unit I've tried. The volume level is > plenty on both units, even with an aftermarket > exhaust. The units only use a single AAA battery and > battery life is pretty good. Another plus is the > armband that comes with each one - if you don't have a > tankbag to put it in (the buttons are all accessible > through a map pocket), you can just strap it to your > arm. > > As you can tell, I recommend 'em. > > http://www.nike-philips.com/ > > Chris Weaver > > --- Jim McGonigle wrote: > > Got a MP3 player and I wanted to listen while > > commuting in the morning. > > I did it this morning with the provided ear buds and > > after a while they > > began to hurt from the pressure from the helmet. > > Anyone use earbuds that > > work well in this situation? Don't want to spend a > > fortune, just > > something that sounds decent and doesn't hurt. > > > > Thanks, > > -Jim > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search > http://shopping.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 10:26:40 2003 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:26:23 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: Dave@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Insurance sticker shock X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 That is exactly what I did. As long as you have a valid mailing address for the VA DMV, they don't really care. I receive all my mail regarding taxes and sticker fees at my sisters house. She lets me know they're there and I go pick them up. The insurance guy said that was perfectly fine with them. Now, if you don't register the bike at the same address you are using for insurance, that would be a no-no. Scooter In a message dated 9/25/2003 9:54:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Dave@XXXXXX writes: > > > > Also, falsifying your place of residence, or more accurately where the > > vehicle is "garaged," constitutes insurance fraud. Don't do it. All that > > money you "saved" will go out the window when the carrier denies a claim > > because you embroidered the truth on your application. > > [Dave] It is however perfectly legal to register a vehicle in a state in > which it will be > primarily used, and stored. I tried to do this a few months in advance of > me actually > moving into VA, but ended up needing more paper and leg > work than I had > patience > for. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 10:28:53 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "dc-cycles list" Subject: Viffer flunks inspection Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:28:00 -0400 I took the VFR down to get its annual** light, um, I mean, "safety" inspection. Verdict: you fail, headlamps must be white. Howzat?? Seems they don't like the bluish tint of my PIAA driving lights, what PIAA calls "super white." Horse hockey. What about the decidedly "bluish" HID headlamps that come as OEM equipment on a lot of cages these day? Rice tuners by the thousand with the blue light shows up front? Nope, they gotta come off and re-inspect. 'Course, you can always put 'em back on once you get the sticker. Seems blue lights per DC code are reserved for police and fire. Yep, I sure wouldn't want to be mistaken for the hundreds of lil' red Tupperwared motorcycles the MPD uses. They also didn't really appreciate my red flashing Hyper-lights on the fender either. I sure will sleep better at night knowing these vigilant public servants are on the job, ridding the public ways of vehicles with non-conforming lights. Well, I guess I could've tried to argue that "bright lights save lives." ;-) Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org **Another pet peeve, why do bikes need *annual* inspections in DC, whereas cages are good for two? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 10:30:50 2003 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 07:30:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Risk Rights To: Paul Wilson , "Louis F. Caplan" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Paul Wilson wrote: > To me "loud pipes" are a fashion statement gussied up as > a necessity. If > you like 'em, fine, but don't try to peddle a safety > justification. I have > an aftermarket pipe that brings out the V4 "character", > i.e., it's louder > than stock. I put it on because I like the way it looks > and sounds, I'm > under no illusions that I'm safer. 'Nuff said. put two (inline 4) sportbikes on the road, one with stock pipe, one with aftermarket. place both in typical beltway traffic with 40%+ cell phone use. which bike is more noticeable to the yakkers? my feeling is that the difference is even more pronounced with a v-twin. i installed aftermarket pipes and chip on my bike as part of a performance upgrade, not a safety measure. the fact that i am also now VERY "visible" to the ears of the yakkers is a bonus. -- tg ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940-A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 10:39:52 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Dave Yates" , "dc-cycles list" Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Risk Rights Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:36:40 -0400 No, not arguing for more regs, just wanting the "loud pipes" aficionados to be a little more honest and not play the Joan Claybrook "safety weenie" card in support of their/my fashion statement. Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Yates" > > > The acid test for the "loud pipes save lives" is the following. Let's say > > by some miracle, multiple vehicle crashes involving motorcycles dropped > > significantly. Yeah, suspend your disbelief. Would the "loud pipes" crew > > pledge to revert to stock? Yeah, right. > > [Dave] Just out of curiosity, what RIGHT is risked by running loud pipes ? > > Annoying as all get out to have some no baffle or Muzzys pipe fire up next > to > you, but, the alternative is more heavily regulating... > > Dave > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 10:41:09 2003 Subject: RE: Ear Buds Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:41:02 -0400 From: "Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services" To: , , , The most elegant solution is to spend ~100 on Etymotic Research ER-6 earbud headphones. (http://www.etymotic.com/) They isolate outside sound to 15-20 dB, so basically, you can use them as regular ear plugs and save your hearing while you listen to your music. There's a local rider that uses these earbud headphones with his ipod and he's happy with the setup. Since he showed them to me, I found out that there's a decent demeand from riders for these headphones, for this application. I can find his name for you. I'm not sure if I would want to listen to music during my commute, but if I did, I would get ER-6s. Witold > > > > Chris Weaver > > > > --- Jim McGonigle wrote: > > > Got a MP3 player and I wanted to listen while > > > commuting in the morning. > > > I did it this morning with the provided ear buds and > > > after a while they > > > began to hurt from the pressure from the helmet. > > > Anyone use earbuds that > > > work well in this situation? Don't want to spend a > > > fortune, just > > > something that sounds decent and doesn't hurt. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > -Jim > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search > > http://shopping.yahoo.com > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 10:49:02 2003 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:48:44 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: Witold@XXXXXX, chris_vtr@XXXXXX, jmcgonigle@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Ear Buds X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 Witold, Thanks for the site. A little bit expensive for what he was looking for but, I might buy a pair sometime down the road. As for now, I'm happy with what I got. :-) Scooter In a message dated 9/25/2003 10:41:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Witold@XXXXXX writes: > > > > The most elegant solution is to spend ~100 on Etymotic Research ER-6 earbud headphones. (http://www.etymotic.com/) They isolate outside sound to 15-20 dB, so basically, you can use them as regular ear plugs and save your hearing while you listen to your music. > > There's a local rider that uses these earbud headphones with his ipod and he's happy with the setup. Since he showed them to me, I found out that there's a decent demeand from riders for these headphones, for this application. I can find his name for you. > > I'm not sure if I would want to listen to music during my > commute, but if I did, I would get ER-6s. > > Witold > > > > > > > > Chris Weaver > > > > > > --- Jim McGonigle wrote: > > > > Got a MP3 player and I wanted to listen while > > > > commuting in the morning. > > > > I did it this morning with the provided ear buds and > > > > after a while they > > > > began to hurt from the pressure from the helmet. > > > > Anyone use earbuds that > > > > work well in this situation? Don't want to spend a > > > > fortune, just > > > > something that sounds decent and doesn't hurt. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > -Jim > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search > > > http://shopping.yahoo.com > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 10:50:02 2003 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 07:49:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: aftermarket pipe recs. To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX sore subject for some of you, but a friend asked me to recommend a slip-on for his '02 yam fz1. i haven't the foggiest. any recs? not too much of an increase in flow, as he probably doesn't want to rejet. also, not too loud please. shhh. -- tg ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940-A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 10:54:57 2003 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:54:48 -0400 From: Skip To: DC Cycles Subject: headphones got this from another mailing list. contact him directly if you're interested, but let him know I sent ya. --skip -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [SABMAG] Benign Spam Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 12:28:06 -0700 From: Milt Oberman Reply-To: Milt Oberman To: SABMAG@XXXXXX Dear beloved Maggots, I sincerely hope you don't consider this unwanted spam. I have a great product to offer that is definitely riding related, which I am now making in limited numbers with a work force of me. First, a little background: A few years ago, a guy was making a headphone set up for wearing under a helmet. It was called the "Plug 'N Listen." Due to circumstances beyond his control, he is no longer making them. So I have decided to pick up where he left off. My product will be called, "Now Hear This!" (although, that is not written in stone and I am open to suggestions for another name) These are similar to earbuds, but the earpieces consist of Moldex foam earplugs with a soft pvc tubes attached. The earpieces attach to longer tubes, and the whole thing comes down about 20 inches into a very small plastic enclosure where they mate with Koss Plug earbuds. The Koss wire and mini phono plug exit the enclosure and go to your personal stereo. The length of the tubes is perfect for going into the top left pocket of a Stich, or the little inside zipper pocket on a Joe Rocket Phoenix jacket. Don Young has come up with an ingenious way to use them if you don't have a nearby pocket. He put the plastic enclosure inside a small drawstring sack and hung the sack around his neck. The sound delivery from these is incredible, since the foam earplugs effectively seal out helmet noise, and the Koss set up puts out some of the best sound around. They are also the most comfortable set-up I have ever found for wearing inside a helmet. There is nothing hard anywhere near your ear to get dislodged, or painfully implanted in your ear when putting your helmet on. I used these for many continuous hours on my recent trek from Tennessee, and I had great music and no pain from wearing them. Also, since I use Moldex ear plugs as part of the earpiece, you get fantastic sound isolation. I am currently using the Moldex Sparkies, but I plan to offer them with Sparkies, or the firmer Pura-fit plugs. I am making up a first batch of 10 sets "Now Hear This!" plugs. Each set comes complete with a spare set of ear pieces, and the plugs can be cleaned by gently washing in warm water and Woolite soap, and then allowed to dry completely. When I get all my packaging and labeling done, NOW HEAR THIS!! will sell for $35.00 to the general public. My 10 prototype, plain baggy package, no label sets I am bringing to the Fall Fling where I will sell them for $25.00 each. In addition to the spare set of ear pieces that come with each set, extra ear pieces will be always be available for $1.50 a set. If any of the original 10 are left over after the Fling I will offer them to the general Maggotry. After that, I will sell them to list members for the discounted price of $30.00. I have some photos available if anyone wants to see what they look like. If you need another opinion of how good these are, check with Don Young. I believe some others on the list have the original Plug 'N Listen's as well. Feel free to e-mail or phone me offlist if you have any questions or suggestions., and please let me know if you think you want a set, so I can reserve one for you. Thanks. Milt PS: If you want to see a photo, e-mail me offlist. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 11:01:52 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: "'Tom Gimer'" , Paul Wilson , "Louis F. Caplan" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Loud Pipes Risk Rights Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:04:34 -0400 This is exactly right. Of course, it's not only effective on the beltway, but in city streets too. Mike 96 VFR 88 Hawk 76 CB400F > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Gimer [SMTP:t_gimer@XXXXXX] > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2003 10:31 AM > To: Paul Wilson; Louis F. Caplan; dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Risk Rights > > --- Paul Wilson wrote: > > To me "loud pipes" are a fashion statement gussied up as > > a necessity. If > > you like 'em, fine, but don't try to peddle a safety > > justification. I have > > an aftermarket pipe that brings out the V4 "character", > > i.e., it's louder > > than stock. I put it on because I like the way it looks > > and sounds, I'm > > under no illusions that I'm safer. 'Nuff said. > > put two (inline 4) sportbikes on the road, one with stock > pipe, one with aftermarket. place both in typical beltway > traffic with 40%+ cell phone use. which bike is more > noticeable to the yakkers? my feeling is that the > difference is even more pronounced with a v-twin. > > i installed aftermarket pipes and chip on my bike as part > of a performance upgrade, not a safety measure. the fact > that i am also now VERY "visible" to the ears of the > yakkers is a bonus. > > > -- > tg > > > > > ===== > Thomas H. Gimer > MURPHY & GIMER, LLC > 7940-A Wisconsin Avenue > Bethesda, MD 20814 > 301 913-0060; 301 913-5415 (fax) > http://www.murphygimer.com > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search > http://shopping.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 11:02:06 2003 From: "Euan Fisk" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:01:19 -0500 Subject: MSF Classes? >To: "Paul Wilson" >>From: "Mike Bartman" > >> Thanks for the info! We seem to have 2 or 3 here now...maybe more. Can >we >> get to 12? >> >> Is Claire on the list? >Not likely. Call the number for NVCC Loudoun Continuing Ed. that I posted >earlier today. >>Got it...wasn't sure where she was located. >Seriously, get your twelve riders together and she what she >can do. ERCs are held on Sunday at Loudoun's second range. >Ok, there's me (soon enough anyway), and Skip...and perhaps >Troutman's friend (was he looking for ERC or BRC?). >That's...well, almost 2, or maybe 3. Are there 9-10 more list >folks who are interested? Yeah, I'm interested also, with a +1. A friends has been riding for about 9 months and has already logged a good number of miles. What's the recommendation for how long you should have been riding and/or time after the BRC to take the ERC? -Euan euan@XXXXXX -- __________________________________________________________ Sign-up for your own personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup CareerBuilder.com has over 400,000 jobs. Be smarter about your job search http://corp.mail.com/careers From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 11:16:23 2003 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:12:43 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Insurance sticker shock To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX ---- Original message ---- >Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:07:18 -0400 >From: "Kathleen E. Miller" >Subject: Re: Insurance sticker shock >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > >Hi all, new to list - first posting. > >Try Dairyland, aka Sentry. They have a special coverage for bikes. [Dave] Welcome to the list ! From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 11:20:01 2003 Subject: Re: aftermarket pipe recs. Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:19:00 -0500 From: To: , Yoshimura, makes some nice slip-ons for the FZ1 They have a street version Zyclone (several styles), just a bit louder than stock and a nice clean tone. For that bike however Ivans jet kit (labor intensive, requires drilling and spring cutting) makes a huge difference in power output. http://www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/fz1.htm George >>> Tom Gimer 09/25/03 10:49AM >>> sore subject for some of you, but a friend asked me to recommend a slip-on for his '02 yam fz1. i haven't the foggiest. any recs? not too much of an increase in flow, as he probably doesn't want to rejet. also, not too loud please. shhh. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 11:20:55 2003 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 08:20:46 -0700 (PDT) From: matthew patton Subject: Re: MSF Classes? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > What's the recommendation for how long you should have been riding > and/or time after the BRC to take the ERC? 3000 miles/1 season or some approximation of that. Hell I had 3k miles within 6wks of getting my 1st bike. you're friend is good to go. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 11:22:17 2003 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 08:22:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Isaac Blanck Subject: Re: MSF Classes? To: Euan Fisk , dc-cycles@XXXXXX I think MSF says at least a year and/or 3k miles. jib --- Euan Fisk wrote: > >To: "Paul Wilson" > >>From: "Mike Bartman" > > > >> Thanks for the info! We seem to have 2 or 3 here > now...maybe more. Can > >we > >> get to 12? > >> > >> Is Claire on the list? > > >Not likely. Call the number for NVCC Loudoun > Continuing Ed. that > I posted > >earlier today. > > >>Got it...wasn't sure where she was located. > > >Seriously, get your twelve riders together and she > what she > >can do. ERCs are held on Sunday at Loudoun's > second range. > > >Ok, there's me (soon enough anyway), and Skip...and > perhaps > >Troutman's friend (was he looking for ERC or BRC?). > >That's...well, almost 2, or maybe 3. Are there 9-10 > more list > >folks who are interested? > > Yeah, I'm interested also, with a +1. A friends has > been riding > for about 9 months and has already logged a good > number of miles. > What's the recommendation for how long you should > have been riding > and/or time after the BRC to take the ERC? > > -Euan > euan@XXXXXX > -- > __________________________________________________________ > Sign-up for your own personalized E-mail at Mail.com > http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup > > CareerBuilder.com has over 400,000 jobs. Be smarter > about your job search > http://corp.mail.com/careers > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 11:31:07 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:30:50 EDT Subject: Re: Viffer flunks inspection To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 9/25/2003 10:29:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time, pawilson@XXXXXX writes: > Seems > they don't like the bluish tint of my PIAA driving lights, what PIAA calls > "super white." BULL FUCKING SHIT! They ARE white! White light is made up of _all_ colors of the spectrum including lots of blue. What those ignorant morons are used to are headlights that are _deficient_ in _blue_ light. In other words they are used to light that is in fact red/yellow _not_ white at all. In order for a tungsten bulb (normal house and headlight) to be color corrected for daylight (white) requires a deep blue color to be added to the glass. Halogen bulbs are only slightly better. Your bulb is not blue, it is however far whiter then what they are used to. Take it back and educate the dodos. (I expect PIAA can provide documentation for the color correctness of their lights, and would no doubt be happy to do so since this bullshit affects their sales.) Our eyes (brain really) automatically sees the _whitest_ thing in our field of vision as white. As a result we normally see "normal" lights as white. Take a photograph with daylight balanced film inside at night or using a normal car headlight then process it without color correction (the norm these days meaning you have probably preformed this experiment) and you can see just how red/yellow it is. BTW florescent light tends to be really _green_, horrid if you are photographing in it. Bureaucratic morons. Loud pipes quell cells. 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 11:33:10 2003 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 08:33:07 -0700 (PDT) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Risk Rights To: List-dc cycles --- Chris Norloff wrote: > To be noticed in today's mix of traffic, a motorcyclist > must adjust his or her position in the lane and relative to > other traffic. Wearing bright colors and using the > headlight also make it easier to be seen. All that is true, but it's pretty evident to me that I have a lot more incidents of people encroaching on my lane, etc., on my sewing-machine quiet Honda 919 than I do on my Aprilia with the loud CF pipes. And the "wearing of bright colors" is a soft spot -- how come more moto hear manugacturers don't make clothes in really bright colors? My old Joe Rocket Ballistic I is nice, bright optic yellow, but the very next year they dropped the color and went instead to a dull, dark gold/orange. I haven't seen anything as visible since, from any manufacturer but Aerostich. > My motorcycles have always been as quiet as a car. If I > want to be heard I use the horn. That's what it's there > for. Most moto horns are no louder than good bicycle horns. The damned dangerous bus drivers in Crystal City sure don't hear -- or pay attantion to -- my horns. Maybe the cruiser guys can slap trumpet horns somewhere on the frame, but it's a lot harder to do so on a sportbike. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 11:34:14 2003 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:35:06 -0400 To: Sean Steele , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Insurance sticker shock At 03:46 AM 9/25/03 -0700, Sean Steele wrote: >What should I expect to pay in comprehensive insurance >on a standard bike, relatively late model, no moving >infractions, kept in the city, with modest >deductibles? > >I'm getting quotes now and they seem ridiculous to me. >Think double what I pay for auto insurance. Well, I just added my new bike to my policy as of 12:01am today (I pick it up tomorrow!). The cost for the bike is slightly higher than what I'm paying for my Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited. Given that the two have about the same value (the Jeep is a '98, the bike is an '04), I suppose that's not too unreasonable. I don't commute on either (work at home) so that gets me a break on insurance (less than 5000 miles a year). I don't know what the breakdown as to liability, comprehensive, and medical is off the top of my head, but the total policy cost slightly more than doubled when the bike was added. BTW, getting higher limits than required didn't raise the cost much...just under $100/6 months for much higher limits (medical went from $2500/person to $100,000/person for instance...liability went up by a factor of 6). If you don't own much other than the bike, lower limits may be fine though. The bike is an '04 Harley Davidson Heritage Softail Classic. Displacement matters to insurance companies, so bigger engines cost more. They also asked about performance enhancement options (I didn't get any)...so I assume that if I'd gotten a Stage 2 kit, it would have cost more forever. ;^) Other things they were interested in included MSF-type safety course completion (not yet...), riding experience, and where the bike would be kept (my garage, which they also insure). They already know about driving record, as they've been insuring me for cars since '91. I hear it's cheaper if one company insures your car or truck and your house and whatever else you have. They can spread the risk a bit, and they know you better and have good reason not to piss you off or make you go to someone else, who might make you a better offer for everything once you are talking to them... :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 11:42:21 2003 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 08:42:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Scratch Subject: [Non-Moto] Old Cars Needed for this Sunday for Movie Shoot To: DCC Since bikey people are often gearheads in general, I'm forwarding this to youse guys. The movie production I'm involved in needs some old cars for this Sunday in Waterford, VA. They need to be on site by 9:00AM. They are looking for ordinary cars no later than 1962. The director says he can fill the street with Corvettes, but that would just look... weird. Like Monster Garage, the vehicle should appear to be stock. For more info on the flick see this: http://tinyurl.com/m3m2 If anyone is interested, please reply to Frank Sciurba at illuminatifilms@XXXXXX Thanks, Rich __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 11:42:39 2003 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'DCCycles'" Subject: Free Suzuki Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:46:20 -0400 1980 GS 450 E Good wheels, regulator, title, head light, Clymer & Factory manuals. Haven't turned engine over in a while Rear tire (Metzler 77 has much tread but is 2 years old) Take all or none. Will begin taking parts to dump next month. Carl in Bethesda From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 11:44:28 2003 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:36:51 -0400 To: "William J. Huson" , "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Naugahide - thanks all At 06:51 AM 9/25/03 -0400, William J. Huson wrote: >Success! Sparkle Upholstery on General >Washington Drive, a few easy miles from home port. The sweet young miss >showed me tons oc swatches and I picked one out, should be here today. >Now the fun part, cutting, trimming, and playing with spray glue. What are you covering? Sounds like a car interior or something...or are you giving your bike a Naugahyde tank and fender job? :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 11:44:30 2003 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:42:12 -0400 To: Tom Gimer , cnorloff@XXXXXX, List-dc cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Risk Rights I agree with Chris for the most part. Annoying those around you is a poor way to behave. Cool sounds don't have to be loud sounds. I do agree with you about the not fighting with each other part though. At least not where anyone else can see it. :^) -- Mike B. At 05:11 AM 9/25/03 -0700, Tom Gimer wrote: >sorry, but i agree with the other side. and it makes >little sense for motorcyclists to be fighting amongst >themselves. > >--- Chris Norloff wrote: >> My response to Dr Gridlock's column today with a letter >> promoting loud pipes >> >http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/metro/columns/drgridlock/ >> >> >> Loud pipes save lives? Loud exhaust on motorcycles do a >> poor job of saving lives - as promoted by the writer on >> September 25 - but are unfortunately effective at risking >> rights of motorcyclists. Noise is a common complaint >> about some motorcycles and has led to bans of all >> motorcycles on both public and private property. Loud >> pipes risk rights. >> >> To be noticed in today's mix of traffic, a motorcyclist >> must adjust his or her position in the lane and relative >> to other traffic. Wearing bright colors and using the >> headlight also make it easier to be seen. >> >> My motorcycles have always been as quiet as a car. If I >> want to be heard I use the horn. That's what it's there >> for. >> >> Chris Norloff >> >> > > >===== >Thomas H. Gimer >MURPHY & GIMER, LLC >7940-A Wisconsin Avenue >Bethesda, MD 20814 >301 913-0060; 301 913-5415 (fax) >http://www.murphygimer.com > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search >http://shopping.yahoo.com > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 11:57:00 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: , Subject: Re: Viffer flunks inspection Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:54:05 -0400 Ayup, following their logic they should have failed my stock headlights for being "too yellow." Care to accompany me on my re-inspection? ;-) Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - with PIAAs 364 out of 365 days a year, I guess. ----- Original Message ----- From: > In a message dated 9/25/2003 10:29:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > pawilson@XXXXXX writes: > > > Seems > > they don't like the bluish tint of my PIAA driving lights, what PIAA calls > > "super white." > > BULL FUCKING SHIT! They ARE white! > White light is made up of _all_ colors of the spectrum including lots of > blue. What those ignorant morons are used to are headlights that are _deficient_ > in _blue_ light. In other words they are used to light that is in fact > red/yellow _not_ white at all. In order for a tungsten bulb (normal house and > headlight) to be color corrected for daylight (white) requires a deep blue color to be > added to the glass. Halogen bulbs are only slightly better. > Your bulb is not blue, it is however far whiter then what they are used to. > Take it back and educate the dodos. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 12:01:30 2003 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:01:54 -0400 To: "Euan Fisk" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: MSF Classes? At 10:01 AM 9/25/03 -0500, Euan Fisk wrote: >>To: "Paul Wilson" >>>From: "Mike Bartman" >>Seriously, get your twelve riders together and she what she >>can do. ERCs are held on Sunday at Loudoun's second range. > >>Ok, there's me (soon enough anyway), and Skip...and perhaps >>Troutman's friend (was he looking for ERC or BRC?). >>That's...well, almost 2, or maybe 3. Are there 9-10 more list >>folks who are interested? > >Yeah, I'm interested also, with a +1. A friends has been riding >for about 9 months and has already logged a good number of miles. I'll save all the responders and keep track of the numbers. If we get close to 12, I'll contact everyone and we can see about what's possible when. You and your friend make 4 so far. (Skip is bikeless at the moment, and Troutman's friend wants the BRC). -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 12:08:54 2003 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Insurance sticker shock Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:08:46 -0400 If I ever have a mishap on my "pleasure vehicle" while commuting I plan on telling AllState it was the first time I've ever done that. >From: "Paul Wilson" >To: "Sean Steele" , >Subject: Re: Insurance sticker shock >Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 09:29:21 -0400 > >Also, falsifying your place of residence, or more accurately where the >vehicle is "garaged," constitutes insurance fraud. Don't do it. All that >money you "saved" will go out the window when the carrier denies a claim >because you embroidered the truth on your application. _________________________________________________________________ Help protect your PC. Get a FREE computer virus scan online from McAfee. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 12:09:29 2003 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'DCCycles'" Subject: MSF Classes? Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:13:03 -0400 If you're just up for honing skills and not needing an endorsement, keep an eye peeled for another announcement for Martinsburg, WV. I did the ERC last week end. Because Isabel dumped a crap on the area, the Saturday scheduled ERC was moved to Sunday. Some of the signed up were no-shows on Sunday soooo . . . there were just four bikes to enjoy the nice clean asphalt. Didn't completely shed the last row of titanium tits of shame on the 205's but worried the heck out of the survivors. Nice facility. It's not in Martinsburg but up Rt 9 on the way to Hedgesville. There is a truck driving school there with strips, corners and circles for motorcycles to play on. Plus, because it is in W(BG)V, you can pick good roads coming and going. Dunno if Bob will be announcing another this Fall. Carl in Bethesda From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 12:57:30 2003 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'ALL OUT RACING'" , "'Eric Ruscheinski'" , "'DCCycles'" Subject: Free Suzuki Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:01:04 -0400 All Out Racing got first dibs -- but he's in Cleveland and I gave him an alternative to electrical parts. >. If he still wants the bike, he's got it. . If he changes his mind. Eric Ruscheinski will pick it up this week end. . If Eric changes his mind, Garcia Oliver and Michael Lynch Are in line. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 13:10:59 2003 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:49:43 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Risk Rights To: dc-cycles list Paul - who was supposed to be "outta here" ;-) offered: >No, not arguing for more regs, just wanting the "loud pipes" >aficionados to be a little more honest and not play the Joan >Claybrook "safety weenie" card in support of their/my >fashion statement. > >Paul in DC [Dave] I agree about the fashion statement, but WTH, there's nothing wrong with a little audible violation enforcement on open piped bikes. And, I reiterate: >> Just out of curiosity, what RIGHT is risked by running >> loud pipes ? Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 13:22:06 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Dave Yates" , "dc-cycles list" Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Risk Rights Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:21:35 -0400 I guess the reasoning goes something like this. John and Jane Q. Citizen get mad about "all those inconsiderate nuts with the loud motorcycles" and demand that "something be done." State legislature "does something" like banning *all* motorcycles, regardless of noise emissions, from state parks, parkways, etc., etc., thereby infringing on the "right" to operate a motorcycle. Whether or not operating a motor vehicle of one's choice on the public ways is a "right" is an open question. I'll leave that to the statists and libertarians to hash out. ;-) Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Yates" > > >> Just out of curiosity, what RIGHT is risked by running > >> loud pipes ? > Dave Yates > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 13:38:41 2003 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:37:28 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Mike Bartman CC: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Naugahide - thanks all Mike Bartman wrote: > At 06:51 AM 9/25/03 -0400, William J. Huson wrote: > >Success! Sparkle Upholstery on General > >Washington Drive, a few easy miles from home port. The sweet young miss > >showed me tons oc swatches and I picked one out, should be here today. > >Now the fun part, cutting, trimming, and playing with spray glue. > > What are you covering? Sounds like a car interior or something...or are > you giving your bike a Naugahyde tank and fender job? :^) > > -- Mike B. Hey, if and when the paint goes TU, I'll consider a Mean Black Leather treatment for the Hawg. What I'm covering is a boat interior. My neglected Starcraft is under hull up restoration, the aluminum hull the only part that wasn't rotted, cracked, or otherwise exposure destroyed. Just cranking the final bolts tight on the also restored trailer, saved the frame, everything else had to be replaced. Then it's carpet time on the new WEST resin preserved marine plywood floor, and naugahide time on the consoles and other interior panels and bits. I don't want to think about the wiring. Even the British would snicker over your basic boat wiring. Designed to fail, designed to be damn near inaccessable... Grrr.... Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 13:48:39 2003 From: pam@XXXXXX To: "Paul Wilson" Cc: "Dave Yates" , "dc-cycles list" Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Risk Rights Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:48:32 -0400 Last weekend at the Redskins game there was a loud, obnoxious drunk a couple of seats down. He was going at it with a Giants fan five rows up. The couple sitting next to him were doused by his beer when it went flying, as did the people three rows in front of him. Eventually those sitting directly behind him asked him to sit down because he was obstructing their view. His language was starting to offend even me. Eventually I'd had enough. I told him to shut up, sit down and be nice. I threw the last thing in because I'm officially turning into my mother. Anyway, his friends began defending his behavior, stating that he was in public and that he was into the game. Not so nicely it was pointed out that being in public does not give one the same rights as one has in private. When in public, there is the responsiblity to not infringe upon the experience of those around you. We were paying (and, handlily, I might add) for the priviledge of participating in a sporting event. Much like driving, we have a priviledge, not a right. When we accept that priviledge, we have to adhere to the pervasive norms and not infringe upon those around us: drive a safe automobile, not put others in peril, etc. There are some who feel that loud pipes add to the experience of a ride. There are their neighbors who might agree, but don't want to have to have their experience of home disturbed by it. How do we balance this? Pam Sapyta BTW, eventually the drunk left the game and missed the final two minutes. Proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that he wasn't a true fan. What was really sad about the whole thing is that, in his mind, I will always be the bitch who ruined the game for him. He'll never know that only one person had the guts to say what 30 were thinking and learn from it. Paul Wilson writes: > I guess the reasoning goes something like this. John and Jane Q. Citizen > get mad about "all those inconsiderate nuts with the loud motorcycles" and > demand that "something be done." State legislature "does something" like > banning *all* motorcycles, regardless of noise emissions, from state parks, > parkways, etc., etc., thereby infringing on the "right" to operate a > motorcycle. Whether or not operating a motor vehicle of one's choice on the > public ways is a "right" is an open question. I'll leave that to the > statists and libertarians to hash out. ;-) > > Paul in DC > 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dave Yates" >> >> >> Just out of curiosity, what RIGHT is risked by running >> >> loud pipes ? >> Dave Yates >> > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 13:50:07 2003 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:48:45 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Paul Wilson CC: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Viffer flunks inspection Hmmm... evil grin spreading... Somewhere in my old camera junk I have a color temperature meter. In photog work it is used to measure the color temp of lamps to balance the color rendition of film. Many moons ago our inspector of race boats busted a driver because his helmet wasn't orange enough. Orange or yellow is the requirement. So I brought the color temp meter and temp charts for orange and busted the inspector. He was mightily pissed :-> Lemme know and I'll dig the bugger up. Of course I doubt it would make a differance, you are talking DC inspection. Bill Paul Wilson wrote: > Ayup, following their logic they should have failed my stock headlights for > being "too yellow." > > Care to accompany me on my re-inspection? ;-) > > Paul in DC From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 13:53:47 2003 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:53:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Risk Rights To: pam@XXXXXX, DC Cycles Wow. Good for you Pam. I am a season ticket holder, but never go to any games (playoffs if that ever happens) for that reason (also that the new stadium sickens me). That drunk asshole always seemed to be sitting in front of my Dad and me. My Dad, at 77 (at the time) never seemed to worry about telling them to sit the hell down. Of course who would have ended up in the fight, the old man or his son (-: The cops at FedEx should have taken care of him. --- pam@XXXXXX wrote: > Last weekend at the Redskins game there was a loud, > obnoxious drunk a couple > of seats down. He was going at it with a Giants fan > five rows up. The > couple sitting next to him were doused by his beer > when it went flying, as > did the people three rows in front of him. > Eventually those sitting > directly behind him asked him to sit down because he > was obstructing their > view. His language was starting to offend even me. > > Eventually I'd had enough. I told him to shut up, > sit down and be nice. I > threw the last thing in because I'm officially > turning into my mother. > > Anyway, his friends began defending his behavior, > stating that he was in > public and that he was into the game. Not so nicely > it was pointed out that > being in public does not give one the same rights as > one has in private. > When in public, there is the responsiblity to not > infringe upon the > experience of those around you. We were paying > (and, handlily, I might add) > for the priviledge of participating in a sporting > event. Much like driving, > we have a priviledge, not a right. When we accept > that priviledge, we have > to adhere to the pervasive norms and not infringe > upon those around us: > drive a safe automobile, not put others in peril, > etc. > > There are some who feel that loud pipes add to the > experience of a ride. > There are their neighbors who might agree, but don't > want to have to have > their experience of home disturbed by it. > > How do we balance this? > > Pam Sapyta > > BTW, eventually the drunk left the game and missed > the final two minutes. > Proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that he wasn't a > true fan. What was > really sad about the whole thing is that, in his > mind, I will always be the > bitch who ruined the game for him. He'll never know > that only one person > had the guts to say what 30 were thinking and learn > from it. > > > > Paul Wilson writes: > > > I guess the reasoning goes something like this. > John and Jane Q. Citizen > > get mad about "all those inconsiderate nuts with > the loud motorcycles" and > > demand that "something be done." State > legislature "does something" like > > banning *all* motorcycles, regardless of noise > emissions, from state parks, > > parkways, etc., etc., thereby infringing on the > "right" to operate a > > motorcycle. Whether or not operating a motor > vehicle of one's choice on the > > public ways is a "right" is an open question. > I'll leave that to the > > statists and libertarians to hash out. ;-) > > > > Paul in DC > > 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Dave Yates" > >> > >> >> Just out of curiosity, what RIGHT is risked > by running > >> >> loud pipes ? > >> Dave Yates > >> > > > > ===== www.deanforamerica.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 13:58:37 2003 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:58:35 -0400 From: "Chris Norloff" Reply-To: To: Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Risk Rights The right to ride. Motorcycle bans in public and private areas usually use noise as the first or second reason for the ban. Chris Norloff ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Dave Yates" >[Dave] Just out of curiosity, what RIGHT is risked by running loud pipes ? > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 14:00:22 2003 Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Risk Rights From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 25 Sep 2003 13:56:12 -0400 On Thu, 2003-09-25 at 13:53, Mark Kitchell wrote: > Wow. Good for you Pam. I am a season ticket holder, > but never go to any games (playoffs if that ever > happens) for that reason (also that the new stadium > sickens me). > > That drunk asshole always seemed to be sitting in > front of my Dad and me. My Dad, at 77 (at the time) > never seemed to worry about telling them to sit the > hell down. Of course who would have ended up in the > fight, the old man or his son (-: > I've always told Rita not to pick any fights she can't finish. She's old enough to know better :-) Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 14:10:03 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Loud Pipes Set of Car Alarms Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:10:09 -0500 I miss my Supertrapp on my Honda Hawk GT. My VFR has a stock, pipe. I must say I love the sound of just wind when your going 85 *ERM* 55 I mean. -- Rob Sharp SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 14:20:34 2003 From: pam@XXXXXX To: cnorloff@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Risk Rights Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:20:32 -0400 You mean the priviledge of riding. We don't have many rights, we do have a lot of priviledges. Sometimes we forget that and act accordingly. Pam Sapyta Chris Norloff writes: > The right to ride. Motorcycle bans in public and private areas usually use noise as the first or second reason for the ban. > > Chris Norloff > > ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- > From: "Dave Yates" >>[Dave] Just out of curiosity, what RIGHT is risked by running loud pipes ? >> > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 14:35:27 2003 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:35:00 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: cschelin@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Risk Rights X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 Hell, my sister has come close to being ejected and banned from Steelers games twice now. She can handle herself and my bro-in-law would let her too. ;-) Scooter In a message dated 9/25/2003 1:56:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cschelin@XXXXXX writes: > > > On Thu, 2003-09-25 at 13:53, Mark Kitchell wrote: > > Wow. Good for you Pam. I am a season ticket holder, > > but never go to any games (playoffs if that ever > > happens) for that reason (also that the new stadium > > sickens me). > > > > That drunk asshole always seemed to be sitting in > > front of my Dad and me. My Dad, at 77 (at the time) > > never seemed to worry about telling them to sit the > > hell down. Of course who would have ended up in the > > fight, the old man or his son (-: > > > > I've always told Rita not to pick any fights she can't > finish. She's old > enough to know better :-) > > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 14:42:30 2003 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:43:22 -0400 To: "William J. Huson" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Naugahide - thanks all Cc: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" At 01:37 PM 9/25/03 -0400, William J. Huson wrote: >Mike Bartman wrote: >> What are you covering? Sounds like a car interior or something...or are >> you giving your bike a Naugahyde tank and fender job? :^) >Hey, if and when the paint goes TU, I'll consider a Mean Black Leather treatment >for the Hawg. Might be kinda neat actually...with pleats? :^) >What I'm covering is a boat interior. My neglected Starcraft is Ah! Ok. Enjoy yourself! :^) >I don't want to think about the wiring. Even the British would snicker over your >basic boat wiring. Designed to fail, designed to be damn near inaccessable... >Grrr.... Well, the alternative is the way the Navy does it: everything out in the open, color coded and numbered. Very efficient for maintenance and repair, but it looks like hell. Since it sounds like you are going to redo it all, you could go that way if you like... ;^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 14:50:25 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: "'Rob Sharp'" , DC-Cycles Subject: RE: Loud Pipes Set of Car Alarms Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:53:09 -0400 The Supertrapp on the Hawk when I got it was too much. What I ended up doing was leave the stainless Supertrapp headers on, cut the can off, and fit a TBR Aluminum can on the remaining pipe. Really mellows it out and gets you that thumping V-twin sound, rather than the raspy stuff from the disks. Here is a little comparison of the two on the Hawk, with a little open pipe action thrown in. http://www.bredhoff.com/vfr/comparison.htm Mike 96 VFR 88 Hawk 76 CB400F > -----Original Message----- > From: Rob Sharp [SMTP:rob@XXXXXX] > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2003 3:10 PM > To: DC-Cycles > Subject: Loud Pipes Set of Car Alarms > > I miss my Supertrapp on my Honda Hawk GT. > > My VFR has a stock, pipe. I must say I love the sound of just wind when > your > going 85 *ERM* 55 I mean. > > > > -- > Rob Sharp > SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 > Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 14:50:27 2003 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:49:39 -0700 (PDT) From: dcpatti Subject: Re: Insurance sticker shock To: DC Cycles My State Farm agent is pretty great, if anyone is looking for insurance in MD or DC; email me for his info. However, to get a good rate you need to have a car insured with them as well. They will still insure you if you only have a bike, no car, but it will cost you. I had a friend who bought a $500 car to park in his alley, just so he could insure it, to get lower bike rates. He saved that $500 in the first 6 months. Also keep in mind that just as rates vary between companies, they also vary between agents. You might have to try two or three agents from each company until you find a good rate. Cheers, patti __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 14:59:25 2003 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:59:20 -0400 From: "Chris Norloff" Reply-To: To: Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Risk Rights I agree with your point, in general. Driving (and riding) is - or should be - a privilege. For riding as a "right", I get to it this way: 1. I have a valid driver's license (with motorcycle endorsement), and meet all State requirements. 2. My vehicle - a motorcycle - meets all State requirements. Taxes, tags, inspection, etc. 3. I operate it legally, within all applicable laws. With that, I should have a "right" - not a privilege - to ride where I want to on public property. Not so, if the public property was the Brockton Massachusetts city park - bikes were banned there due to noise, fast riding, and people hanging out. It took years of legal action to get the ban overturned. As a legal resident/owner of an apartment, condominium, or townhouse I should have the right - not a privilege - of riding and parking my personal vehicle there. Not so, if the complex has a ban on bikes. I should also have a right - not a privilege - of riding on a private road with one type of ordinary vehicle (a motorcycle) if I can with another type of ordinary vehicle (a car). Not so, if the property owners' association can ban one type of legal vehicle in favor of other types of legal vehicles. I just think it's wise not to give politico's and homeowners' associations more reasons to ban bikes. Those are the rights that loud pipes risk ... Chris Norloff ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: pam@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:20:32 -0400 >You mean the priviledge of riding. > >We don't have many rights, we do have a lot of priviledges. Sometimes we >forget that and act accordingly. > >Pam Sapyta > >Chris Norloff writes: > >> The right to ride. Motorcycle bans in public and private areas usually use noise as the first or second reason for the ban. >> >> Chris Norloff >> >> ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- >> From: "Dave Yates" >>>[Dave] Just out of curiosity, what RIGHT is risked by running loud pipes ? >>> >> > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 15:00:32 2003 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:01:13 -0400 To: pam@XXXXXX, cnorloff@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Risk Rights Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Actually we have a lot of rights too...many of them currently being infringed by the government at various levels. Take a look at the 9th and 10th Amendments to the U.S. Constitution sometime... -- Mike B. At 02:20 PM 9/25/03 -0400, pam@XXXXXX wrote: >You mean the priviledge of riding. > >We don't have many rights, we do have a lot of priviledges. Sometimes we >forget that and act accordingly. > >Pam Sapyta > >Chris Norloff writes: > >> The right to ride. Motorcycle bans in public and private areas usually use noise as the first or second reason for the ban. >> >> Chris Norloff >> >> ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- >> From: "Dave Yates" >>>[Dave] Just out of curiosity, what RIGHT is risked by running loud pipes ? >>> >> > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 15:07:22 2003 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:36:11 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Risk Privileges To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Pam Corrects: >You mean the priviledge of riding. > >We don't have many rights, we do have a lot of priviledges. >Sometimes we forget that and act accordingly. > >Pam Sapyta > >Chris Norloff writes: > >> The right to ride. Motorcycle bans in public and private >>areas usually use noise as the first or second reason for >>the ban. see the recently issued "Klein v. Leis" from Ohio http://www.sconet.state.oh.us/rod/documents/0/2003/2003-Ohio- 4779.doc OSC rejects statutes prohibiting _concealed_ weapons as unconstitutional under OHIO's constitution. In doing so, they point out that carrying (bearing) weapons IS constitutionally protected, so long as they are not concealed. The MANNER of bearing arms may be regulated under - strict scrutiny, with a compelling state interest, and no right is absolute. Now, hypothetically and just for the sake of discussion, reapply this decision swapping the phrases - "Bear Arms" to "Ride Motorcycles" "bear concealed arms" to "ride non muffled motorcycles" Essentially, EVEN IF one were to assume a RIGHT to ride, one would NOT have the right to ride offensively to the public, and certainly, your "RIGHT" would be subject to the same limitations as other activities on private property. Dave >> >> ---------- Original Message ------------------------------- --- >> From: "Dave Yates" >>>[Dave] Just out of curiosity, what RIGHT is risked by running loud pipes ? >>> >> > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 15:51:33 2003 From: pam@XXXXXX To: cnorloff@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Risk Rights Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:51:30 -0400 In civics, I was thought that "rights" are from the Constitution. No where in the Constitution is there a "right" to drive anything, anywhere. Just because we think we should have a "right" doesn't make it so. Public places are for everyone--as long as those using the facilities adhere to the governances. If this does not take place, we start to develop something known as the Tragedy of the Commons: all lose because everyone starts to abuse the public offering. Brockton is a great example. This town has been a dump. D - U - M - P dump. It was so bad for so long that crack downs had to take place to get rid of all sorts of nefarious activities. Part of what made the place bad was the noise levels. All hours of day and night. Up and down the streets... Drugs... Gangs... What was going on what that the gathering of people engaged in activities in this area diminished the quality of life of those who lived in the area. It made it a less safe to be. Also, being on private property does not absolve us of adherence to laws. I may want to get drunk in the privacy of my own home, it may be unimpactful on my neighbor, but the second I walk out of my house into the common area, that's when it becomes problematic. If we manage the noise levels of automobiles, why can't we expect the same for bikes? Chris Norloff writes: > I agree with your point, in general. Driving (and riding) is - or should be - a privilege. > > For riding as a "right", I get to it this way: > 1. I have a valid driver's license (with motorcycle endorsement), and meet all State requirements. > 2. My vehicle - a motorcycle - meets all State requirements. Taxes, tags, inspection, etc. > 3. I operate it legally, within all applicable laws. > > With that, I should have a "right" - not a privilege - to ride where I want to on public property. > > Not so, if the public property was the Brockton Massachusetts city park - bikes were banned there due to noise, fast riding, and people hanging out. It took years of legal action to get the ban overturned. > > As a legal resident/owner of an apartment, condominium, or townhouse I should have the right - not a privilege - of riding and parking my personal vehicle there. Not so, if the complex has a ban on bikes. > > I should also have a right - not a privilege - of riding on a private road with one type of ordinary vehicle (a motorcycle) if I can with another type of ordinary vehicle (a car). Not so, if the property owners' association can ban one type of legal vehicle in favor of other types of legal vehicles. > > > I just think it's wise not to give politico's and homeowners' associations more reasons to ban bikes. > > Those are the rights that loud pipes risk ... > > Chris Norloff > > > ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- > From: pam@XXXXXX > Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:20:32 -0400 > >>You mean the priviledge of riding. >> >>We don't have many rights, we do have a lot of priviledges. Sometimes we >>forget that and act accordingly. >> >>Pam Sapyta >> >>Chris Norloff writes: >> >>> The right to ride. Motorcycle bans in public and private areas usually use noise as the first or second reason for the ban. >>> >>> Chris Norloff >>> >>> ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- >>> From: "Dave Yates" >>>>[Dave] Just out of curiosity, what RIGHT is risked by running loud pipes ? >>>> >>> >> >> > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 15:53:49 2003 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:54:31 -0400 From: "Judy La Follette" To: Subject: '97 748 Duc Slave Cylinder? Problem Ok, I was a fool and rode the bike in this past Tuesday. It took me a little over three (3) hours to get to work (Dumfries to D.C. in HOV lanes). I was not a happy camper! From about Newington to D.C., top speed reached was 10 mph, and rarely hitting 10 mph. Full leathers, helmet, boots, gloves, etc. I even got off the bike near the Pentagon and literally laid on the side of the road for 15 minutes from me overheating. The bike was running anywhere from 200 - 210 on the temperature gauge the entire time. Clutch (hydraulic--dry clutch) did not really give me too much trouble that I noticed to D.C., except that my hand was killing me. However, when I started the bike to go home, I noticed that the clutch was fully engaged even though I had the clutch fully disengaged. I thought that possibly the clutch was so hot when I shut the bike off, that it had kind of stuck. The bike felt like it wanted to leap forward with MUCH force. I could not shift the bike into neutral (bike was started in first gear, clutch pulled) or any other gear. Holding the brake tight, I released the clutch a little thinking that it might slip into neutral just by moving the bike around a little. Instantly killed the bike! I put the bike in neutral and started it again. Same problem with the clutch. Then the clutch became mushy, but then quickly felt fine. I proceeded home, and had problems about four more times before going a couple blocks. Then it appeared to work fine. [No, I never happened to look at the clutch reservoir.] Made it home fine. A friend stopped by and looked at the bike for me. After a little while, the bike acted up again. We then noticed that there was no fluid in the reservoir. First time that I had looked at the reservoir. We added fluid, bleed the line, topped off with more fluid, and it appeared to work fine. I drove the bike in to work yesterday. About five miles from home, I went back home and got my rags, wrench, and some brake fluid (clutch fluid--same stuff for the Duc), . . . just in case. I drove to work, checking the reservoir frequently. No traffic, until I got to D.C., however, just the normal D.C. traffic. Parked the bike in the garage. Left yesterday to go home. Same problem again with the clutch. Not using any fluid, so great! Went about 20 yards, reservoir was empty. Fluid on the ground by the kickstand. It appeared to be leaking from about where the front sprocket is, but I could not see because of the chain guard--roughly where the shifter is located. Got out my trusty rags, wrench, and brake fluid. Filled up the reservoir, bleed them a little, hit the ramp on the third floor of the garage. Noticed problems with the clutch throughout the garage, but thought possibly air in lines. Got to top of garage and looked the bike over. Clutch is not quite working properly, but head for home. Go about 1)B½ blocks, either shutting the bike off to get to neutral from clutch pulling when should be disengaged, or the clutch working ok. Have to make a right turn on red to fill up reservoir. Decide going back to the garage and parking it was much better than attempting the ride home through D.C., and then hitting the traffic after the truck scales on I-95. Go to garage, tell attendant I will be back in about three hours or so. Catch bus home, get truck, go to D.C., pick up bike, take poor bike home :( Suggestions? I have heard something about a Slave Cylinder? It does not appear that there is any leakage from the reservoir. I have a little over 36,700 miles on bike. I have never replaced the Slave Cylinder or the clutch. Just time for a new one, or did I burn up something by the bike possibly getting to hot, and then me shutting it off? It is still loaded on the truck, and probably have to head to Richmond ASAP. [I know Coleman and Battleys is much closer, but refuse--had firsthand serious problems with both places!] MotoEuropa, in Richmond, (or Deanna (sp?), who is opening her own shop out of her home) has done most of the work on the bike. Gimer? Thanks in advance for your suggestions/help! Judy From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 16:01:42 2003 Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Risk Rights From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 25 Sep 2003 15:57:32 -0400 On Thu, 2003-09-25 at 15:51, pam@XXXXXX wrote: > If we manage the noise levels of automobiles, why can't we expect the same > for bikes? > As long as they enforce it as well as HOV, speeders, earphones, seatbelts, danglies on the rear view mirror, fart boxes and bass lovers (music not fish). Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 16:04:30 2003 Subject: Re: '97 748 Duc Slave Cylinder? Problem To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: judy.lafollette@XXXXXX From: Kevin_Hawkins@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:00:44 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on ITXF2ALN09/InternetMail(Release 6.0.2CF2|July 23, 2003) at 09/25/2003 04:05:30 PM Yes, it's almost certainly weeping from the slave cylinder. He is my experience repairing the one on my ol' 900SS/CR. Place an oil drain pan under the bike. Remove the three hex bolts and pull the slave unit off the bike (takes a little tugging). Holding the slave unit in your hand with your palm read to catch the piston, give the clutch handle a quick squeeze. Out pops the piston in your hand. Pull the light spring off the back, remove the outer scraper seal and remove the rubber dampener inside the piston. A very simple mechanism! Using 600 wet/dry sandpaper, then very very fine steel wool, then your Dremel polish attachment, polish the inside bore of the slave unit. It's roughness is what caused the scraper seal to fail. Replace the scraper seal and inside dampener plug(I don't know why you replace the inside dampener other than it comes with the kit $13.95 Action Cycles). Reassemble, bleed the lines and your good to go!! Kevin Hawkins kevin_hawkins@XXXXXX http://www.kevinhawk.com '93 Yamaha GTS1000 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Ok, I was a fool and rode the bike in this past Tuesday. It took me a little over three (3) hours to get to work (Dumfries to D.C. in HOV lanes). I was not a happy camper! From about Newington to D.C., top speed reached was 10 mph, and rarely hitting 10 mph. Full leathers, helmet, boots, gloves, etc. I even got off the bike near the Pentagon and literally laid on the side of the road for 15 minutes from me overheating. The bike was running anywhere from 200 - 210 on the temperature gauge the entire time. Clutch (hydraulic--dry clutch) did not really give me too much trouble that I noticed to D.C., except that my hand was killing me. However, whhen I started the bike to go home, I noticed that the clutch was fully engaged even though I had the clutch fully disengaged. I thought that possibly the clutch was so hot when I shut the bike off, that it had kind of stuck. The bike felt like it wanted to leap forward with MUCH force. I could not shift the bike into neutral (bike was started in first gear, clutch pulled) or any other gear. Holding the brake tight, I released the clutch a little thinking that it might slip into neutral just by moving the bike around a little. Instantly killed the bike! I put the bike in neutral and started it again. Same problem with the clutch. Then the clutch became mushy, but then quickly felt fine. I proceeded home, and had problems about four more times before going a couple blocks. Then it appeared to work fine. [No, I never happened to look at the clutch reservoir.] Made it home fine. A friend stopped by and looked at the bike for me. After a little while, the bike acted up again. We then noticed that there was no fluid in the reservoir. First time that I had looked at the reservoir. We added fluid, bleed the line, topped off with more fluid, and it appeared to work fine. I drove the bike in to work yesterday. About five miles from home, I went back home and got my rags, wrench, and some brake fluid (clutch fluid--same stuff for the Duc), . . . just in case. I drove to work, checking the reservoir frequently. No traffic, until I got tto D.C., however, just the normal D.C. traffic. Parked the bike in the garage. Left yesterday to go home. Same problem again with the clutch. Not using any fluid, so great! Went about 20 yards, reservoir was empty. Fluid on the ground by the kickstand. It appeared to be leaking from about where the front sprocket is, but I could not see because of the chain guard--roughly where the shifter is located. Got out my trusty rags, wrench, and brake fluid. Filled up the reservoir, bleed them a little, hit the ramp on the third floor of the garage. Noticed problems with the clutch throughout the garage, but thought possibly air in lines. Got to top of garage and looked the bike over. Clutch is not quite working properly, but head for home. Go about 1)B½ blocks, either shutting the bike off to get to neutral from clutch pulling when should be disengaged, or the clutch working ok. Have to make a right turn on red to fill up reservoir. Decide going back to the garage and parking it was much better than attempting the ride home through D.C., and then hitting the traffic after the truck scales on I-95. Go to garage, tell attendant I will be back in about three hours or so. Catch bus home, get truck, go to D.C., pick up bike, take poor bike home :( Suggestions? I have heard something about a Slave Cylinder? It does not appear that there is any leakage from the reservoir. I have a little over 36,700 miles on bike. I have never replaced the Slave Cylinder or the clutch. Just time for a new one, or did I burn up something by the bike possibly getting to hot, and then me shutting it off? It is still loaded on the truck, and probably have to head to Richmond ASAP. [I know Coleman and Battleys is much closer, but refuse--had firsthand serious problems with both places!] MotoEuropa, in Richmond, (or Deanna (sp?), who is opening her own shop ouut of her home) has done most of the work on the bike. Gimer? Thanks in advance for your suggestions/help! Judy From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 16:47:08 2003 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: '97 748 Duc Slave Cylinder? Problem Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:47:00 -0400 Lane split. >From: "Judy La Follette" >To: >Subject: '97 748 Duc Slave Cylinder? Problem >Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:54:31 -0400 > >Ok, I was a fool and rode the bike in this past Tuesday. It took me a >little over three (3) hours to get to work (Dumfries to D.C. in HOV lanes). _________________________________________________________________ Add MSN 8 Internet Software to your existing Internet access and enjoy patented spam protection and more. Sign up now! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/byoa From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 16:56:23 2003 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:56:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: '97 748 Duc Slave Cylinder? Problem To: Judy La Follette , dc-cycles@XXXXXX slave cylinder go boom. the stock units are notoriously bad by design. mine started to fail at 33k. refill system, if possible, in the interim. as you have 36k on the stock clutch, i would recommend replacing both the slave cylinder and the clutch (i got 36k+ out of my stock unit and got my share of dropped jaws). it is more than likely that you'll need a new clutch basket as well. goto www.motowheels.com for a nice selection of aftermarket clutches. they also sell evoluzione slave cylinders, which, along w/ yoyodyne, seem to be the most recommended bits. good luck! (glad to hear the miles are still piling up on your duc). -- tg --- Judy La Follette wrote: > Ok, I was a fool and rode the bike in this past Tuesday. > It took me a little over three (3) hours to get to work > (Dumfries to D.C. in HOV lanes). I was not a happy > camper! From about Newington to D.C., top speed reached > was 10 mph, and rarely hitting 10 mph. Full leathers, > helmet, boots, gloves, etc. I even got off the bike near > the Pentagon and literally laid on the side of the road > for 15 minutes from me overheating. The bike was running > anywhere from 200 - 210 on the temperature gauge the > entire time. > > Clutch (hydraulic--dry clutch) did not really give me too > much trouble that I noticed to D.C., except that my hand > was killing me. However, when I started the bike to go > home, I noticed that the clutch was fully engaged even > though I had the clutch fully disengaged. > Gimer? > > Thanks in advance for your suggestions/help! > > Judy > ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940-A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 19:42:42 2003 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:43:34 -0400 To: pam@XXXXXX, cnorloff@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Risk Rights Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 03:51 PM 9/25/03 -0400, pam@XXXXXX wrote: > >In civics, I was thought that "rights" are from the Constitution. No where >in the Constitution is there a "right" to drive anything, anywhere. Then you were taught incorrectly. The Constitution doesn't list our rights. It lists the federal government's powers and responsibilities...and *explicitly* limits it to those powers granted to it in the Constitution...and NO OTHERS. It also EXPLICITLY says that the states and the people (us) are NOT limited to just those rights that happened to get mentioned, but that we have all rights not *explicitly* given up in that document. Get a copy and read it sometime. It's not complicated, or "lawyerized"...it's written in fairly plain English. The two parts concerned with what I wrote in the prior paragraph are the Ninth and Tenth Amendments...the final two in the Bill of Rights. The first 10 Amendments are not a list of our rights at all, they are explicit limitations on the government to interfere with those pre-existing rights. The Ninth and Tenth were added at the end to make it really clear that the government had ONLY those powers described, and that the states and people were not limited to just those rights listed. Too bad that the population as a whole doesn't understand that. If it did, the abuses the federal government has been getting up to for the last 100 years or so would be over...or at least a lot more difficult to pull off and stay in office. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 20:04:09 2003 From: "John Turner" To: Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Risk Rights Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:04:51 -0400 I will admit to the thrill of hearing the loud exhaust when the throttle is pulled, but this is a pleasure that should be reserved for the track. The loud BLAAP you exude while driving on the street could scare the knickers off some old lady and cause her to plow into you. The determining factor for exhaust volume should be the performance of the vehicle. Two wheeled vehicles should be allowed some extra performance features to allow them maneuverability amongst larger less mobile vehicles. This should still be a reasonable volume which won't wake babies from their beds at 100 yards away. > >> > >> My motorcycles have always been as quiet as a car. If I > >> want to be heard I use the horn. That's what it's there > >> for. > >> > >> Chris Norloff > >> > >> From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 21:52:11 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" Subject: DC Parking Tickets Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:54:57 -0400 Is anyone else getting hammered with as many totally bogus parking tickets as I am lately? It is the end of the month and they have to meet their quota and all, but this is getting out of hand. 5 tickets in the past 2 weeks bad. They've started this new thing with ticketing for staying too long in one spot, when they've never cared before. Last week was a spot where a bunch of us motorcyclists have been parking ever since they closed our official MC parking spot on New York between 14th and 13th. We were going along fine in this new spot where we've been parking, then BAM. Tickets. This last time (just tonight) is what sent me over the edge. There's a MC parking spot on NY and 13th in front of McDonalds. Like all MC designated parking spots (with no meters), the sign says something like 9AM-6:30PM, but doesn't explicitly say no parking outside those times. However, tonight they claim it's a no-no to park there for 4 hours. Unfortunately I had to work late, so I got out there at 8PM. Tickets. What the hell is the deal? Is DC sending their unpaid parking tickets to a collection agency to ruin your credit? Mike 96 VFR 88 Hawk 76 CB400F From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 22:02:51 2003 Subject: RE: DC Parking Tickets Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:02:43 -0400 From: "Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services" To: "Michael Lynch" , Every now and then, they have periods of higher enforcement, but I haven't experienced this myself. I commute to work and park all day in 2 hour parking zones. In the past year, I have recieved no tickets, whereas my coworkers have recieved many. I would recommend covering your bike if you are not already doing so. It not only keeps curious bystanders away, but also troublemakers and meater maids. Around Capitol Hill, it's common knowledge that it's not enough to repark across the street after 2 hours. You will still get ticketed. Instead, after your 2 hour limit lapses, you have to repark in a _different_ parking zone altogether. Witold > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Lynch [mailto:MLynch@XXXXXX] > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2003 9:55 PM > To: 'dc-cycles@XXXXXX' > Subject: DC Parking Tickets > > > Is anyone else getting hammered with as many totally bogus > parking tickets > as I am lately? It is the end of the month and they have to > meet their > quota and all, but this is getting out of hand. 5 tickets in > the past 2 > weeks bad. They've started this new thing with ticketing for > staying too > long in one spot, when they've never cared before. > > Last week was a spot where a bunch of us motorcyclists have > been parking > ever since they closed our official MC parking spot on New > York between 14th > and 13th. We were going along fine in this new spot where we've been > parking, then BAM. Tickets. > > This last time (just tonight) is what sent me over the edge. > There's a MC > parking spot on NY and 13th in front of McDonalds. Like all > MC designated > parking spots (with no meters), the sign says something like > 9AM-6:30PM, but > doesn't explicitly say no parking outside those times. > However, tonight > they claim it's a no-no to park there for 4 hours. > Unfortunately I had to > work late, so I got out there at 8PM. Tickets. > > What the hell is the deal? Is DC sending their unpaid > parking tickets to a > collection agency to ruin your credit? > > Mike > 96 VFR > 88 Hawk > 76 CB400F > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 22:08:03 2003 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:07:58 -0700 (PDT) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Risk Rights To: Mike Bartman Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > Then you were taught incorrectly. > > The Constitution doesn't list our rights. It lists the > federal > government's powers and responsibilities...and *explicitly* > limits it to > those powers granted to it in the Constitution...and NO > OTHERS.... Now let's see -- should I file that one under "Obfuscation Obliterated" or "Confusion Canceled"? -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 22:48:25 2003 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:48:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: RE: DC Parking Tickets To: Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services , Michael Lynch , dc-cycles@XXXXXX They do turn your name over to collection agencies if you do not pay. FYI --- Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services wrote: > > Every now and then, they have periods of higher > enforcement, but I haven't experienced this myself. > I commute to work and park all day in 2 hour parking > zones. In the past year, I have recieved no > tickets, whereas my coworkers have recieved many. I > would recommend covering your bike if you are not > already doing so. It not only keeps curious > bystanders away, but also troublemakers and meater > maids. > > Around Capitol Hill, it's common knowledge that it's > not enough to repark across the street after 2 > hours. You will still get ticketed. Instead, after > your 2 hour limit lapses, you have to repark in a > _different_ parking zone altogether. > > Witold > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Michael Lynch [mailto:MLynch@XXXXXX] > > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2003 9:55 PM > > To: 'dc-cycles@XXXXXX' > > Subject: DC Parking Tickets > > > > > > Is anyone else getting hammered with as many > totally bogus > > parking tickets > > as I am lately? It is the end of the month and > they have to > > meet their > > quota and all, but this is getting out of hand. 5 > tickets in > > the past 2 > > weeks bad. They've started this new thing with > ticketing for > > staying too > > long in one spot, when they've never cared before. > > > > Last week was a spot where a bunch of us > motorcyclists have > > been parking > > ever since they closed our official MC parking > spot on New > > York between 14th > > and 13th. We were going along fine in this new > spot where we've been > > parking, then BAM. Tickets. > > > > This last time (just tonight) is what sent me over > the edge. > > There's a MC > > parking spot on NY and 13th in front of McDonalds. > Like all > > MC designated > > parking spots (with no meters), the sign says > something like > > 9AM-6:30PM, but > > doesn't explicitly say no parking outside those > times. > > However, tonight > > they claim it's a no-no to park there for 4 hours. > > > Unfortunately I had to > > work late, so I got out there at 8PM. Tickets. > > > > What the hell is the deal? Is DC sending their > unpaid > > parking tickets to a > > collection agency to ruin your credit? > > > > Mike > > 96 VFR > > 88 Hawk > > 76 CB400F > > > > > ===== www.deanforamerica.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 25 23:51:59 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 23:51:45 EDT Subject: Re: Viffer flunks inspection To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 9/25/2003 11:57:17 AM Eastern Daylight Time, pawilson@XXXXXX writes: > Care to accompany me on my re-inspection? ;-) Do not tempt me. It does occur to me that the bulb and or its box most likely has some sort of "meets federal standard ????? for highway use" If so you have all you need. If the bulb meets federal regulations the city/state of DC does not have the right to disallow it. Of course if it says "not for street use" you are screwed. Loud pipes quell cells. 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 26 00:51:02 2003 Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 00:52:00 -0400 To: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Risk Rights Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 07:07 PM 9/25/03 -0700, pltrgyst@XXXXXX wrote: >--- Mike Bartman wrote: > >> Then you were taught incorrectly. >> >> The Constitution doesn't list our rights. It lists the >> federal >> government's powers and responsibilities...and *explicitly* >> limits it to >> those powers granted to it in the Constitution...and NO >> OTHERS.... > >Now let's see -- should I file that one under "Obfuscation >Obliterated" or "Confusion Canceled"? Whichever stimulates a smile? Sorry for the OTness, but the number of people who think the Bill of Rights is a complete list of all of our rights is scary. That's not its purpose at all...as should be clear from the history around its inclusion in the Constitution. All you have to do to see this is to read the document, and perhaps some of the things written about it at the time it was being created. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 26 06:14:51 2003 Subject: Re: DC Parking Tickets From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 26 Sep 2003 06:10:42 -0400 On Thu, 2003-09-25 at 21:54, Michael Lynch wrote: > Is anyone else getting hammered with as many totally bogus parking tickets > as I am lately? It is the end of the month and they have to meet their > quota and all, but this is getting out of hand. 5 tickets in the past 2 > weeks bad. They've started this new thing with ticketing for staying too > long in one spot, when they've never cared before. > Over here (VA Ave?) in the parking spot it doesn't actually say you have to move after 4 hours where the 2 hour slots say that you're limited to 2 hours. I've never received a "parking too long" in the bike "lot" here but then again the lot's normally half empty. I suspect they care more if all the spaces are full. On a positive note though, I got out there yesterday just a minute or two after the meter expired and the PEO was sitting on the concrete loading dock about 20 feet away listening to her radio/the game so I missed getting a ticket. About a week ago I got to the bike and the PEO was two cars away ticketing someone. (Yea, I sometimes wait too long. The hazards of being a computer geek.) Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 26 07:33:19 2003 Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 07:33:16 -0400 From: Skip Smith CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Risk Rights "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" wrote: > > --- Mike Bartman wrote: > > > Then you were taught incorrectly. > > > > The Constitution doesn't list our rights. It lists the > > federal > > government's powers and responsibilities...and *explicitly* > > limits it to > > those powers granted to it in the Constitution...and NO > > OTHERS.... > > Now let's see -- should I file that one under "Obfuscation > Obliterated" or "Confusion Canceled"? that should be under "Confusion Canceled", as people were confused about the meaning of the document. If, however, the document had been written in an obtuse manner (i.e, in Lawyer-ese) it would have been an "Obfuscation obliteration". --skip Eschew Obfuscation! From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 26 09:07:00 2003 Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:06:55 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: DC Parking Tickets To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Carl Contributed: >On a positive note though, I got out there yesterday just a >minute or two after the meter expired and the PEO was >sitting on the concrete loading dock about 20 feet away >listening to her radio/the game so I >missed getting a ticket. > >About a week ago I got to the bike and the PEO was two cars >away ticketing someone. (Yea, I sometimes wait too long. The >hazards of being a computer geek.) [Dave] Doc Gridlock reported that periodically, people will pay the toll for the person behind them in B'more... Anyone here know of anyone that pays meters in front of PEO's ? Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 26 09:20:24 2003 Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:20:20 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: RE: DC Parking Tickets To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >They do turn your name over to collection agencies if >you do not pay. FYI [Dave] They did not used to... Time was, you could rack up hundreds of DC parking tickets, and they weren't even worth the paper they were written on. FWIW, if they DO turn over a debt to a collection agency, you may invoke the "Fair Debt Collection Practices Act", which, if done correctly, will prevent the collector from collecting anything, writing anything against your credit report, and most importantly, sending the responsibility for collection back to the orginial debtor. This is a great way to cost DC the maximum amount of money for their trouble... And don't ever ignore them - either do something about it, or pay up, you don't want to find out they've written negative remarks to your credit report for not paying... Still, there's always the risk of tow/impound - which in DC, is city-speak for "we stole it", and boots. Q: Do they have motorcycle boots ? Not the kind you wear on your feet, the boots used to immobilize a vehicle... Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 26 09:23:04 2003 Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 06:23:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: DC Parking Tickets To: Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX i have --- Dave Yates wrote: > Carl Contributed: > >On a positive note though, I got out there > yesterday just a > >minute or two after the meter expired and the PEO > was > >sitting on the concrete loading dock about 20 feet > away > >listening to her radio/the game so I > >missed getting a ticket. > > > >About a week ago I got to the bike and the PEO was > two cars > >away ticketing someone. (Yea, I sometimes wait too > long. The > >hazards of being a computer geek.) > > [Dave] Doc Gridlock reported that periodically, > people will > pay the toll for the person behind them in B'more... > > Anyone here know of anyone that pays meters in front > of > PEO's ? > > > Dave Yates > ===== www.deanforamerica.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 26 09:24:01 2003 Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 06:23:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Risk Rights To: Mike Bartman , pam@XXXXXX, cnorloff@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 03:51 PM 9/25/03 -0400, pam@XXXXXX wrote: > > > >In civics, I was thought that "rights" are from the > Constitution. No where > >in the Constitution is there a "right" to drive > anything, anywhere. > > Then you were taught incorrectly. > > The Constitution doesn't list our rights. It lists the > federal > government's powers and responsibilities...and > *explicitly* limits it to > those powers granted to it in the Constitution...and NO > OTHERS. It also > EXPLICITLY says that the states and the people (us) are > NOT limited to just > those rights that happened to get mentioned, but that we > have all rights > not *explicitly* given up in that document. > > Get a copy and read it sometime. It's not complicated, > or > "lawyerized"...it's written in fairly plain English. The > two parts > concerned with what I wrote in the prior paragraph are > the Ninth and Tenth > Amendments...the final two in the Bill of Rights. The > first 10 Amendments > are not a list of our rights at all, they are explicit > limitations on the > government to interfere with those pre-existing rights. > The Ninth and > Tenth were added at the end to make it really clear that > the government had > ONLY those powers described, and that the states and > people were not > limited to just those rights listed. it seems you've overlooked the necessary and proper clause and the supremacy clause. > Too bad that the population as a whole doesn't understand > that. If it did, > the abuses the federal government has been getting up to > for the last 100 > years or so would be over...or at least a lot more > difficult to pull off > and stay in office. i don't know.... the population seems to be only indirectly responsible -- by electing the man who appoints justices to the supreme court. -- tg ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940-A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 26 09:24:39 2003 Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:24:35 -0400 (EDT) From: KR To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: DC Parking Tickets Bob&Tom: They're not just in INDY anymore! On Fri, 26 Sep 2003, Dave Yates wrote: > >[Dave] Doc Gridlock reported that periodically, people will >pay the toll for the person behind them in B'more... Spiderman (Carl) and I used to cover for each other once-in-a-while until I found other parking arrangements for the bike. K From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 26 09:26:24 2003 Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:26:22 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Risk Rights To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Gimer Goofed: >> Too bad that the population as a whole doesn't understand >> that. If it did, >> the abuses the federal government has been getting up to >> for the last 100 >> years or so would be over...or at least a lot more >> difficult to pull off >> and stay in office. > >i don't know.... the population seems to be only indirectly >responsible -- by electing the man who appoints justices to >the supreme court. > [Dave] Not to pick nits... Nominates, subject to the Advice & Consent of the Senate... Not appoints. Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 26 09:29:38 2003 Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 06:29:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Risk Rights To: Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Dave Yates wrote: > Gimer Goofed: > > >> Too bad that the population as a whole doesn't > understand > >> that. If it did, > >> the abuses the federal government has been getting up > to > >> for the last 100 > >> years or so would be over...or at least a lot more > >> difficult to pull off > >> and stay in office. > > > >i don't know.... the population seems to be only > indirectly > >responsible -- by electing the man who appoints justices > to > >the supreme court. > > > > [Dave] Not to pick nits... Nominates, subject to the > Advice > & Consent of the Senate... Not appoints. yep. sorry. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 26 09:40:29 2003 Subject: Re: DC Parking Tickets From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 26 Sep 2003 09:36:19 -0400 On Fri, 2003-09-26 at 09:06, Dave Yates wrote: > Carl Contributed: > >On a positive note though, I got out there yesterday just a > >minute or two after the meter expired and the PEO was > >sitting on the concrete loading dock about 20 feet away > >listening to her radio/the game so I > >missed getting a ticket. > > > >About a week ago I got to the bike and the PEO was two cars > >away ticketing someone. (Yea, I sometimes wait too long. The > >hazards of being a computer geek.) > > [Dave] Doc Gridlock reported that periodically, people will > pay the toll for the person behind them in B'more... > > Anyone here know of anyone that pays meters in front of > PEO's ? > I've fed the other meters if less than an hour is left and I have change. I haven't done it under the eyes of a PEO but I have done it as she was approaching. > > Dave Yates > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 26 10:01:16 2003 Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 07:01:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Weaver Subject: Motorcycle sales up as ex-riders return To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX The "born-again biker" boom that the UK has been experiencing in recent years seems to also be in effect here in the US. http://news.mysanantonio.com/story.cfm?xla=saen&xlb=180&xlc=1060520 Chris Weaver __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 26 10:06:28 2003 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'DCCycles'" , "'SabMag'" Cc: "'mcmail@XXXXXX'" Subject: We think You're an Idiot. Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:10:09 -0400 That's what I concluded from Motorcycling's "LIMITED TIME OFFER, THANK YOUR GIFT, Exclusively For:" name in the envelope window Inside, the special offer says, for $18 I can add a year onto my subscription AND give a year's "Free Gift Subscription" to a friend (or enemy). . "Two subscriptions for the price of 1" and "For Subscribers Only". . Even my geriatric brain* detected something was amiss. Sure enough, inside the magazine a page marker showed anyone could get a two year subscription for $18. Another showed anyone could get a one year subscription for $10. . So, how does paying $18 for a one year subscription yield a "free" subscription for another? . Does Motorcyclist's marketing folks take it's subscribers for idiots - or are they first-grade-arithmetic-challenged? I've cc'ed the editorial staff at mcmail@XXXXXX for comment. Carl in Bethesda * Gotcha "steel penny geezers" beat by 3 years. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 26 10:16:13 2003 Reply-To: From: "Jim McGonigle" To: Subject: RE: Ear Buds Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:15:11 -0400 Thanks everyone. I ordered the "Plug" based on its reputation here. -Jim > -----Original Message----- > From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX [mailto:ScooterFZR@XXXXXX] > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2003 9:42 AM > To: jmcgonigle@XXXXXX; dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Ear Buds > > > This is what I use with my MP3 player on the bike. > > http://www.koss.com/koss/kossweb.nsf/02ProductDetailCall?ReadF orm&Portable+Stereophones^THEPLUG > > Works like a combination earplug/headphone. Works really > good with great sound quality. Better than anything else > I've tried. It comes with extra ear pieces, in different > shapes, so you can find the ones that fit you best. I > believe Mark Kitchell also uses them. I have yet to find > them in a store though. I had to order mine through Koss. > Hope this helps. > > Scooter > > In a message dated 9/25/2003 8:36:09 AM Eastern Daylight > Time, jmcgonigle@XXXXXX writes: > > > > > > > Got a MP3 player and I wanted to listen while commuting in > the morning. > > I did it this morning with the provided ear buds and after > a while they > > began to hurt from the pressure from the helmet. Anyone use > earbuds that > > work well in this situation? Don't want to spend a fortune, > > just > > something that sounds decent and doesn't hurt. > > > > Thanks, > > -Jim > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 26 10:30:56 2003 Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:31:58 -0400 To: Tom Gimer , pam@XXXXXX, cnorloff@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Risk Rights Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 06:23 AM 9/26/03 -0700, Tom Gimer wrote: >--- Mike Bartman wrote: >> The Ninth and >> Tenth were added at the end to make it really clear that >> the government had >> ONLY those powers described, and that the states and >> people were not >> limited to just those rights listed. > >it seems you've overlooked the necessary and proper clause >and the supremacy clause. It seems you've overlooked the fact that Amendments supercede text in the body of the document whenever there's a conflict. That's why they call them "amendments". What article and section are the two clauses you mention in? They certainly aren't in the Ninth and Tenth Amendments, which read: Ninth: (this one directly contradicts what Pam was taught in school) "The enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people." (i.e.: just because a right wasn't listed doesn't mean it doesn't exist) Tenth: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." (i.e.: The feds have only the powers listed, and no others. The states and the people have all remaining powers except those explicitly given up.) >> Too bad that the population as a whole doesn't understand >> that. If it did, >> the abuses the federal government has been getting up to >> for the last 100 >> years or so would be over...or at least a lot more >> difficult to pull off >> and stay in office. > >i don't know.... the population seems to be only indirectly >responsible -- by electing the man who appoints justices to >the supreme court. As well as electing the people who pass laws in violation of the Constitution's limitations, yes. It's a representative democracy, so the people won't be directly acting in this area...but they are directly responsible for what the government they created does, since they still have control over that government and can replace it whenever they choose to do so. As Rush (the band, not the talk show host) said, "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice." -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 26 10:35:53 2003 From: pam@XXXXXX To: Mike Bartman Cc: Tom Gimer , cnorloff@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Risk Rights Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:35:50 -0400 As I'm getting on a flight to go to Paris, I'll be interested to catch up on this ever so light hearted discussion on a periodic basis. On on! Pam Mike Bartman writes: > At 06:23 AM 9/26/03 -0700, Tom Gimer wrote: >>--- Mike Bartman wrote: > >>> The Ninth and >>> Tenth were added at the end to make it really clear that >>> the government had >>> ONLY those powers described, and that the states and >>> people were not >>> limited to just those rights listed. >> >>it seems you've overlooked the necessary and proper clause >>and the supremacy clause. > > It seems you've overlooked the fact that Amendments supercede text in the > body of the document whenever there's a conflict. That's why they call > them "amendments". > > What article and section are the two clauses you mention in? They > certainly aren't in the Ninth and Tenth Amendments, which read: > > Ninth: (this one directly contradicts what Pam was taught in school) > > "The enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights shall not be > construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people." > > (i.e.: just because a right wasn't listed doesn't mean it doesn't exist) > > Tenth: > > "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor > prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or > to the people." > > (i.e.: The feds have only the powers listed, and no others. The states and > the people have all remaining powers except those explicitly given up.) > >>> Too bad that the population as a whole doesn't understand >>> that. If it did, >>> the abuses the federal government has been getting up to >>> for the last 100 >>> years or so would be over...or at least a lot more >>> difficult to pull off >>> and stay in office. >> >>i don't know.... the population seems to be only indirectly >>responsible -- by electing the man who appoints justices to >>the supreme court. > > As well as electing the people who pass laws in violation of the > Constitution's limitations, yes. It's a representative democracy, so the > people won't be directly acting in this area...but they are directly > responsible for what the government they created does, since they still > have control over that government and can replace it whenever they choose > to do so. As Rush (the band, not the talk show host) said, "If you choose > not to decide, you still have made a choice." > > -- Mike B. > > > **************************************************************************** > * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * > * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * > * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * > *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* > * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * > **************************************************************************** > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 26 10:41:21 2003 Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:40:54 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: Dave@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: DC Parking Tickets X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 I've done that a couple times. Especially if it's vehicles that I recognize. Although, I remember reading an article about a woman who was arrested for doing that whenever she saw a meter about to expire. The PEO's didn't like the fact that she was taking away their revenue so, they arrested her. I don't remember what the final outcome was though. Scooter In a message dated 9/26/2003 9:06:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Dave@XXXXXX writes: > > > Carl Contributed: > >On a positive note though, I got out there yesterday just a > >minute or two after the meter expired and the PEO was > >sitting on the concrete loading dock about 20 feet away > >listening to her radio/the game so I > >missed getting a ticket. > > > >About a week ago I got to the bike and the PEO was two cars > >away ticketing someone. (Yea, I sometimes wait too long. > The > >hazards of being a computer geek.) > > [Dave] Doc Gridlock reported that periodically, people will > pay the toll for the person behind them in B'more... > > Anyone here know of anyone that pays meters in front of > PEO's ? > > > Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 26 10:43:54 2003 Subject: RE: DC Parking Tickets - Portland Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:43:39 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: , , I know in Portland (Oregon) it is actually illegal to feed meters, and specifically meters not your own. Always sounded pretty petty to me, and if I was walking by a meter close to expiring, I'd put in a quarter or two. Robert Verde -----Original Message----- From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX [mailto:ScooterFZR@XXXXXX] Sent: Friday, September 26, 2003 10:41 AM To: Dave@XXXXXX; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: DC Parking Tickets I've done that a couple times. Especially if it's vehicles that I recognize. Although, I remember reading an article about a woman who was arrested for doing that whenever she saw a meter about to expire. The PEO's didn't like the fact that she was taking away their revenue so, they arrested her. I don't remember what the final outcome was though. Scooter From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 26 10:45:09 2003 Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:44:56 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: jmcgonigle@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Ear Buds X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 Happy to be of service. :-) Scooter In a message dated 9/26/2003 10:15:11 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jmcgonigle@XXXXXX writes: > > > > Thanks everyone. I ordered the "Plug" based on its reputation here. > > -Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX [mailto:ScooterFZR@XXXXXX] > > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2003 9:42 AM > > To: jmcgonigle@XXXXXX; dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > Subject: Re: Ear Buds > > > > > > This is what I use with my MP3 player on the bike. > > > > http://www.koss.com/koss/kossweb.nsf/02ProductDetailCall?ReadF > orm&Portable+Stereophones^THEPLUG > > > > Works like a combination earplug/headphone. Works really > > good with great sound quality. Better than anything else > > I've tried. It comes with extra ear pieces, in different > > shapes, so you can find the ones that fit you best. I > > believe Mark Kitchell also uses them. I have yet to find > > them in a store though. I had to order mine through Koss. > > Hope this helps. > > > > Scooter > > > > In a message dated 9/25/2003 8:36:09 AM Eastern Daylight > > Time, jmcgonigle@XXXXXX writes: > > > > > > > > > > > Got a MP3 player and I wanted to listen while commuting in > > the morning. > > > I did it this morning with the provided ear buds and after > > a while they > > > began to hurt from the pressure from the helmet. Anyone use > > earbuds that > > > work well in this situation? Don't want to spend a > fortune, > > > just > > > something that sounds decent and doesn't hurt. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > -Jim > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 26 10:52:52 2003 Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 07:52:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Risk Rights To: Mike Bartman , pam@XXXXXX, cnorloff@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 06:23 AM 9/26/03 -0700, Tom Gimer wrote: > >--- Mike Bartman wrote: > > >> The Ninth and > >> Tenth were added at the end to make it really clear > that > >> the government had > >> ONLY those powers described, and that the states and > >> people were not > >> limited to just those rights listed. > > > >it seems you've overlooked the necessary and proper > clause > >and the supremacy clause. > > It seems you've overlooked the fact that Amendments > supercede text in the > body of the document whenever there's a conflict. That's > why they call > them "amendments". > > What article and section are the two clauses you mention > in? (1) article I, section 8, clause 18: "To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof. " (2) article VI, clause 2: "This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding." > They > certainly aren't in the Ninth and Tenth Amendments, which > read: i don't think it matter where they are located. but now you know. > Ninth: (this one directly contradicts what Pam was > taught in school) > > "The enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights > shall not be > construed to deny or disparage others retained by the > people." > > (i.e.: just because a right wasn't listed doesn't mean it > doesn't exist) > > Tenth: > > "The powers not delegated to the United States by the > Constitution, nor > prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the > States respectively, or > to the people." > > (i.e.: The feds have only the powers listed, and no > others. The states and > the people have all remaining powers except those > explicitly given up.) tell that to history > >> Too bad that the population as a whole doesn't > understand > >> that. If it did, > >> the abuses the federal government has been getting up > to > >> for the last 100 > >> years or so would be over...or at least a lot more > >> difficult to pull off > >> and stay in office. > > > >i don't know.... the population seems to be only > indirectly > >responsible -- by electing the man who appoints justices > to > >the supreme court. > > As well as electing the people who pass laws in violation > of the > Constitution's limitations, yes. It's a representative > democracy, so the > people won't be directly acting in this area...but they > are directly > responsible for what the government they created does, > since they still > have control over that government and can replace it > whenever they choose > to do so. As Rush (the band, not the talk show host) > said, "If you choose > not to decide, you still have made a choice." what's your point? who is to blame for the past two hundred years of interpretation of the constitution? -- tg ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940-A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 26 10:55:30 2003 Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:55:23 -0400 From: Skip To: Tom Gimer CC: Mike Bartman , pam@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Risk Rights Tom Gimer wrote: [snip] > > what's your point? who is to blame for the past two > hundred years of interpretation of the constitution? apathy. --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 26 10:55:48 2003 Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 07:55:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Risk Rights To: Tom Gimer , Mike Bartman , pam@XXXXXX, cnorloff@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX i just realized how off fucking topic this is. sorry. moto: i rode the now-street-legal xr400r to work the past two days. man what a difference in riding position! been a few years since i've had this perspective. what a beautiful day to ride (for now). --- Tom Gimer wrote: > --- Mike Bartman wrote: > > At 06:23 AM 9/26/03 -0700, Tom Gimer wrote: > > >--- Mike Bartman wrote: > > > > >> The Ninth and > > >> Tenth were added at the end to make it really clear > > that > > >> the government had > > >> ONLY those powers described, and that the states and > > >> people were not > > >> limited to just those rights listed. > > > > > >it seems you've overlooked the necessary and proper > > clause > > >and the supremacy clause. ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940-A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 26 11:02:45 2003 Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 11:02:31 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Risk Rights To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX To Paraphrase... It is clear this contest cannot be decided by our knowledge of the law, but our skill with a keyboard ! > >what's your point? who is to blame for the past two >hundred years of interpretation of the constitution? > [Dave] I wonder if the colonists had a problem with loud whinnying equines, as we do with loud pipe Harley's ? was there rampant anti-equine discrimination ? No Horses allowed ? I'll bet it was every bit as constitutional to ban loud whinnying & clip-clopping horses as it is to ban loud pipe motos... Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 26 11:37:48 2003 Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Risk Rights From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 26 Sep 2003 11:33:40 -0400 On Fri, 2003-09-26 at 11:02, Dave Yates wrote: > To Paraphrase... > It is clear this contest cannot be decided by our knowledge > of the law, but our skill with a keyboard ! > > > > >what's your point? who is to blame for the past two > >hundred years of interpretation of the constitution? > > > > [Dave] I wonder if the colonists had a problem with loud > whinnying equines, as we do with loud pipe Harley's ? > > was there rampant anti-equine discrimination ? No Horses > allowed ? I'll bet it was every bit as constitutional to ban > loud whinnying & clip-clopping horses as it is to ban loud > pipe motos... > Squire Yates, you must agree with me that the feed those riders on the south side give their nags is below quality. A group of them rode by my estate and the consistancy of their road apples is more like rotten apples. We must ban the sale of low quality feed. This will force those riders to either give up their nags or inflict themselves on other folks by moving on. > > Dave Yates > Evil Oversquire Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 26 11:49:24 2003 Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 11:50:13 -0400 To: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX, Dave@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: DC Parking Tickets At 10:40 AM 9/26/03 -0400, ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: >I've done that a couple times. Especially if it's vehicles that I recognize. Although, I remember reading an article about a woman who was arrested for doing that whenever she saw a meter about to expire. The PEO's didn't like the fact that she was taking away their revenue so, they arrested her. What was the charge? "Interfering with an officer in pursuit of money"? So far as I know, there's nothing illegal about feeding a meter, whether it's your car or not. Certainly nothing wrong with feeding one that hasn't yet expired. The meters are there to collect revenue, and you are contributing some. What's not to like? Oh, quotas...TT for the PEOs! >I don't remember what the final outcome was though. I hope it was "case dismissed...with extreme prejudice"! Perhaps to be followed with a charge of "false arrest"? -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 26 12:02:57 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: "'DCCycles'" Subject: Good Aprilia Dealer? Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:05:43 -0400 Does anyone know a good, reliable Aprilia dealer around here? My buddy with his Futura went to Coleman's for his first service just recently, and now the bike is developing a whole bunch of running problems that it never had before. There's no way, in good conscience, that I can let him take it back to them to "fix" it again. Thanks, Mike 96 VFR 88 Hawk 76 CB400F From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 26 12:07:40 2003 Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:08:35 -0400 To: Tom Gimer , pam@XXXXXX, cnorloff@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Risk Rights Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 07:52 AM 9/26/03 -0700, Tom Gimer wrote: >--- Mike Bartman wrote: >> At 06:23 AM 9/26/03 -0700, Tom Gimer wrote: >> >--- Mike Bartman wrote: >> >> >> The Ninth and >> >> Tenth were added at the end to make it really clear >> that >> >> the government had >> >> ONLY those powers described, and that the states and >> >> people were not >> >> limited to just those rights listed. >> > >> >it seems you've overlooked the necessary and proper >> clause >> >and the supremacy clause. >> >> It seems you've overlooked the fact that Amendments >> supercede text in the >> body of the document whenever there's a conflict. That's >> why they call them "amendments". >> >> What article and section are the two clauses you mention >> in? > >(1) article I, section 8, clause 18: "To make all Laws >which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into >Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested >by this Constitution in the Government of the United >States, or in any Department or Officer thereof. " In what way does that have any relevance to what I was talking about? All it says is that Congress can pass laws to implement the powers granted to it. It does nothing to contradict any limitations on those powers...which is what the 9th and 10th Amendments do. >(2) article VI, clause 2: "This Constitution, and the Laws >of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance >thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, >under the Authority of the United States, shall be the >supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State >shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or >Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding." Again, what does that have to do with what I was talking about? This says that the powers of the United States supercede those of the States. It does nothing to extend those powers beyond what is listed in the Constitution. Especially since the 9th and 10th Amendments supercede anything contradictory in the body of the Constitution, and they explicitly limit the powers possessed by the federal government to those powers listed, and no others. Again, check out the meaning of "amendment": Webster's 1913 Dictionary Definition: \A*mend"ment\, n. [F. amendement, LL. amendamentum.] 1. An alteration or change for the better; correction of a fault or of faults; reformation of life by quitting vices. 2. In public bodies; Any alternation made or proposed to be made in a bill or motion by adding, changing, substituting, or omitting. 3. (Law) Correction of an error in a writ or process. Syn: Improvement; reformation; emendation. If Amendments don't supercede the original document where there are conflicts, what good are they? Prohibition would still be in force, the Senate would still be elected by the various State legislatures, and 18 year olds and women wouldn't get to vote. If the clauses you cite conflict with the 9th and 10th amendments (and I don't see that they do), then they aren't in force any more than prohibition, senate election practices and young and female voter non-eligibility are. >> They >> certainly aren't in the Ninth and Tenth Amendments, which >> read: > >i don't think it matter where they are located. but now >you know. But it does matter where they are located, if they are in the body anywhere (as they are)...however, yes, now I know. Thank you for pointing them out. >> Ninth: (this one directly contradicts what Pam was >> taught in school) >> >> "The enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights >> shall not be >> construed to deny or disparage others retained by the >> people." >> >> Tenth: >> >> "The powers not delegated to the United States by the >> Constitution, nor >> prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the >> States respectively, or >> to the people." >> >tell that to history I'd rather tell it to those in a position to correct the abuses that have been going on, and which are escalating, sometime before the country is converted into a place none of us will want to live in. Revolutions are SO messy...it's much, much better to fix it through more peaceful means. Starting with education. The trouble is that those in power understand how to boil frogs very well, and the frogs are so busy demanding that they "do something" about every little problem that they aren't noticing the heat. >> >i don't know.... the population seems to be only >> indirectly >> >responsible -- by electing the man who appoints justices >> to >> >the supreme court. >> >> As well as electing the people who pass laws in violation >> of the >> Constitution's limitations, yes. It's a representative >> democracy, so the >> people won't be directly acting in this area...but they >> are directly >> responsible for what the government they created does, >> since they still >> have control over that government and can replace it >> whenever they choose >> to do so. As Rush (the band, not the talk show host) >> said, "If you choose >> not to decide, you still have made a choice." > >what's your point? who is to blame for the past two >hundred years of interpretation of the constitution? Principally those who have been choosing expediency over correctness, but ultimately their bosses...us and our predecessors who let them do it improperly without penalty. -- Mike B. P.S. Not all laws are improper, and not all court decisions are incorrect from a Constitutional standpoint. Just enough of them that there's been significant erosion of our rights and a significant expansion of governmental power well beyond what those who wrote the Constitution would have tolerated. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 26 12:10:55 2003 Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:10:28 -0400 To: Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Risk Rights At 11:02 AM 9/26/03 -0400, Dave Yates wrote: >[Dave] I wonder if the colonists had a problem with loud >whinnying equines, as we do with loud pipe Harley's ? I suspect their problems with emissions were more material and less sonic... -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 26 12:11:13 2003 Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:11:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Good Aprilia Dealer? To: Michael Lynch , "'DCCycles'" run, do not walk, away from http://www.apriliadealers.com/ Moto Strada 9918 C. York Rd. - 21030 Cockeysville (MD) Tel. 410-666-8377 Fax 410-666-0821 Ken's Cycle Center 501 E. Nine Mile Road - 23075 Highland Springs (VA) Tel. 804-737-7803 Fax 804-737-8333 Redline Performance Motorsports Inc. 7331 George Washington Memorial Hwy. - 23692 Yorktown (VA) Tel. 757-989-5000 Fax 757-989-3591 --- Michael Lynch wrote: > Does anyone know a good, reliable Aprilia dealer around > here? My buddy with > his Futura went to Coleman's for his first > service just recently, > and now the bike is developing a whole bunch of running > problems that it > never had before. > > There's no way, in good conscience, that I can let him > take it back to them > to "fix" it again. > > Thanks, > Mike > 96 VFR > 88 Hawk > 76 CB400F > ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940-A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 26 12:21:23 2003 Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:21:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Loud Pipes Risk Rights To: Mike Bartman , pam@XXXXXX, cnorloff@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 07:52 AM 9/26/03 -0700, Tom Gimer wrote: > >--- Mike Bartman wrote: > >> At 06:23 AM 9/26/03 -0700, Tom Gimer wrote: > >> >--- Mike Bartman wrote: > >> > >> >> The Ninth and > >> >> Tenth were added at the end to make it really clear > >> that > >> >> the government had > >> >> ONLY those powers described, and that the states > and > >> >> people were not > >> >> limited to just those rights listed. > >> > > >> >it seems you've overlooked the necessary and proper > >> clause > >> >and the supremacy clause. > >> > >> It seems you've overlooked the fact that Amendments > >> supercede text in the > >> body of the document whenever there's a conflict. > That's > >> why they call them "amendments". > >> > >> What article and section are the two clauses you > mention > >> in? > > > >(1) article I, section 8, clause 18: "To make all Laws > >which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into > >Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers > vested > >by this Constitution in the Government of the United > >States, or in any Department or Officer thereof. " > > In what way does that have any relevance to what I was > talking about? no offense, but my bet is that only one of us has been through a painful year-long class devoted entirely to constitutional law. if i'm wrong, please advise, and then re-read the material relating to these clauses, the cases construing them and followed. then, if you still want me to answer to your question, post another request. > All it says is that Congress can pass laws to implement > the powers granted > to it. It does nothing to contradict any limitations on > those > powers...which is what the 9th and 10th Amendments do. again, read what the supreme court has to say about the clauses -- and the resulting law of the land. > >(2) article VI, clause 2: "This Constitution, and the > Laws > >of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance > >thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, > >under the Authority of the United States, shall be the > >supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State > >shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or > >Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding." > > Again, what does that have to do with what I was talking > about? see above > This says that the powers of the United States supercede > those of the > States. It does nothing to extend those powers beyond > what is listed in > the Constitution. Especially since the 9th and 10th > Amendments supercede > anything contradictory in the body of the Constitution, > and they explicitly > limit the powers possessed by the federal government to > those powers > listed, and no others. Again, check out the meaning of > "amendment": he pulls the dictionary.... again. i think i'd go into the court with more than the dictionary if i was arguing this. > Webster's 1913 Dictionary > > Definition: \A*mend"ment\, n. [F. amendement, LL. > amendamentum.] > 1. An alteration or change for the better; correction of > a > fault or of faults; reformation of life by quitting > vices. > > 2. In public bodies; Any alternation made or proposed to > be > made in a bill or motion by adding, changing, > substituting, or omitting. > > 3. (Law) Correction of an error in a writ or process. > > Syn: Improvement; reformation; emendation. > > > If Amendments don't supercede the original document where > there are > conflicts, what good are they? Prohibition would still > be in force, the > Senate would still be elected by the various State > legislatures, and 18 > year olds and women wouldn't get to vote. where's the conflict? again, check history. that's not to say that the tenth amendment won't be the subject of future decisions. however, it has been largely dismissed when rulings are made involving federalism. > If the clauses you cite conflict with the 9th and 10th > amendments (and I > don't see that they do), then they aren't in force any > more than > prohibition, senate election practices and young and > female voter > non-eligibility are. you DON'T see that they conflict. so what's the problem? congress uses the commerce power (among others) to justify all sorts of laws; federal law is supreme, and there is a shitload of preemption authority. perhaps you put the keyboard down and study it. until then... (i have a limit. i get paid by the hour and i don't see anything else worth responding to here.) > >> They > >> certainly aren't in the Ninth and Tenth Amendments, > which > >> read: > > > >i don't think it matter where they are located. but now > >you know. > > But it does matter where they are located, if they are in > the body anywhere > (as they are)...however, yes, now I know. Thank you for > pointing them out. > > >> Ninth: (this one directly contradicts what Pam was > >> taught in school) > >> > >> "The enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights > >> shall not be > >> construed to deny or disparage others retained by the > >> people." > >> > >> Tenth: > >> > >> "The powers not delegated to the United States by the > >> Constitution, nor > >> prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the > >> States respectively, or > >> to the people." > >> > >tell that to history > > I'd rather tell it to those in a position to correct the > abuses that have > been going on, and which are escalating, sometime before > the country is > converted into a place none of us will want to live in. > Revolutions are SO > messy...it's much, much better to fix it through more > peaceful means. > Starting with education. > > The trouble is that those in power understand how to boil > frogs very well, > and the frogs are so busy demanding that they "do > something" about every > little problem that they aren't noticing the heat. > > >> >i don't know.... the population seems to be only > >> indirectly > >> >responsible -- by electing the man who appoints > justices > >> to > >> >the supreme court. > >> > >> As well as electing the people who pass laws in > violation > >> of the > >> Constitution's limitations, yes. It's a > representative > >> democracy, so the > >> people won't be directly acting in this area...but > they > >> are directly > >> responsible for what the government they created does, > >> since they still > >> have control over that government and can replace it > >> whenever they choose > >> to do so. As Rush (the band, not the talk show host) > >> said, "If you choose > >> not to decide, you still have made a choice." > > > >what's your point? who is to blame for the past two > >hundred years of interpretation of the constitution? > > Principally those who have been choosing expediency over > correctness, but > ultimately their bosses...us and our predecessors who let > them do it > improperly without penalty. > > -- Mike B. > > P.S. Not all laws are improper, and not all court > decisions are incorrect > from a Constitutional standpoint. Just enough of them > that there's been > significant erosion of our rights and a significant > expansion of > governmental power well beyond what those who wrote the > Constitution would > have tolerated. ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940-A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 26 13:02:26 2003 Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:02:12 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: DC Parking Tickets To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX ...Although, I remember reading an article about a woman who >was arrested for doing that whenever she saw a meter about >to expire. The PEO's didn't like the fact that she was >taking away their revenue so, they arrested her. > >What was the charge? "Interfering with an officer in >pursuit of money"? [Dave] This was in Cincinati or Cleveland, IIRC, and the issue was that the woman in question was repeatedly walking directly in front of the PEO, and feeding the meter. Not cutting the PEO off, but consistently depriving the PEO of being able to write a legitimate ticket. The city in question had a preexisting ordinance against this activity. As I recall, the PEO's called the cops, and the cops cuffed & stuffed the scofflaw. it was something to the effect of interfering with a city worker ... Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 26 13:08:05 2003 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'DCCycles'" Cc: "'pawilson@XXXXXX'" , "'netrichallmc@XXXXXX'" Subject: Blue lights: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:11:46 -0400 Wilson pouted, "" <> " . . . they don't like the bluish tint of my PIAA driving lights, what PIAA calls "super white." . . . . Didja flick 'em on? .When I got the "MD permanent inspection" on the 'Ceptor, the inspector eyed my driving lights and mentioned the blue tinge. One flick of the switch demonstrated they were no where close to blue. Ah, but that was the guy in Potomac that Gimer & others recommend. Ear Buds Hall Recommended: "As seen on DC Cycles: Koss "the ear plug" $25 from Circuit City. " . Last summer, I moseyed into K-Mart and the shelf price for "The Plug" was $15. When the clerk retrieved the package from the locked case, the package price was $10. At check out, I was charged $7.50. No, I still haven't bought a lottery ticket. Carl in Bethesda From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 26 13:10:26 2003 Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:10:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Sean Steele Subject: Re: Good Aprilia Dealer? To: "'DCCycles'" Is Coleman's *that* bad? Fun anecdotes anyone? -Sean --- Tom Gimer wrote: > run, do not walk, away > > from http://www.apriliadealers.com/ > > Moto Strada > 9918 C. York Rd. - 21030 Cockeysville (MD) > Tel. 410-666-8377 Fax 410-666-0821 > > Ken's Cycle Center > 501 E. Nine Mile Road - 23075 Highland Springs (VA) > Tel. 804-737-7803 Fax 804-737-8333 > > Redline Performance Motorsports Inc. > 7331 George Washington Memorial Hwy. - 23692 > Yorktown (VA) > Tel. 757-989-5000 Fax 757-989-3591 > > > > --- Michael Lynch wrote: > > Does anyone know a good, reliable Aprilia dealer > around > > here? My buddy with > > his Futura went to Coleman's for his > first > > service just recently, > > and now the bike is developing a whole bunch of > running > > problems that it > > never had before. > > > > There's no way, in good conscience, that I can let > him > > take it back to them > > to "fix" it again. > > > > Thanks, > > Mike > > 96 VFR > > 88 Hawk > > 76 CB400F > > > > > ===== > Thomas H. Gimer > MURPHY & GIMER, LLC > 7940-A Wisconsin Avenue > Bethesda, MD 20814 > 301 913-0060; 301 913-5415 (fax) > http://www.murphygimer.com > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product > search > http://shopping.yahoo.com > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 26 13:17:53 2003 Subject: Re: Good Aprilia Dealer? From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 26 Sep 2003 13:13:43 -0400 So far I've had no problems when I took my Harley in :-) They're a bit on the expensive side. They won't call you back if you order parts, you have to call them and check. Based on the experiences here, I won't take my bike to them so I don't have any bad ones. Rita was going to buy a V-Star from them but decided on the Shadow VLX (which I rode in today). Nothing bad from them, the shadow has a shorter seat height. They had an open house were we got a couple of coupon books and Rita was able to get into a special MSF class. Are the dc-cycles archives searchable? I know the first thing I saw when I got here two years ago was a rant about Coleman's. Carl On Fri, 2003-09-26 at 13:10, Sean Steele wrote: > Is Coleman's *that* bad? Fun anecdotes anyone? > > -Sean From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 26 13:25:39 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: "'Sean Steele'" , "'DCCycles'" Subject: RE: Good Aprilia Dealer? Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:28:25 -0400 Worse. We're being nice. Check the archives for a full day of reading horror stories from Coleman's. One of mine in short: Simply go in for inspection. Fail because of one thing. Go home, fix, return. Fail because of one (another) thing. Go home, fix, return. Fail because of one (another) thing. I get bent and go off on the service guy as to why he can't just tell me everything that's wrong because I'm clearly not having them do any work, and that I'm leaving with the bike right now. Go out to bike to find they've spit a huge lugie on my seat. Mature. Mike 96 VFR 88 Hawk 76 CB400F > -----Original Message----- > From: Sean Steele [SMTP:seanwebmail@XXXXXX] > Sent: Friday, September 26, 2003 1:10 PM > To: 'DCCycles' > Subject: Re: Good Aprilia Dealer? > > Is Coleman's *that* bad? Fun anecdotes anyone? > > -Sean > > --- Tom Gimer wrote: > > run, do not walk, away > > > > from http://www.apriliadealers.com/ > > > > Moto Strada > > 9918 C. York Rd. - 21030 Cockeysville (MD) > > Tel. 410-666-8377 Fax 410-666-0821 > > > > Ken's Cycle Center > > 501 E. Nine Mile Road - 23075 Highland Springs (VA) > > Tel. 804-737-7803 Fax 804-737-8333 > > > > Redline Performance Motorsports Inc. > > 7331 George Washington Memorial Hwy. - 23692 > > Yorktown (VA) > > Tel. 757-989-5000 Fax 757-989-3591 > > > > > > > > --- Michael Lynch wrote: > > > Does anyone know a good, reliable Aprilia dealer > > around > > > here? My buddy with > > > his Futura went to Coleman's for his > > first > > > service just recently, > > > and now the bike is developing a whole bunch of > > running > > > problems that it > > > never had before. > > > > > > There's no way, in good conscience, that I can let > > him > > > take it back to them > > > to "fix" it again. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Mike > > > 96 VFR > > > 88 Hawk > > > 76 CB400F > > > > > > > > > ===== > > Thomas H. Gimer > > MURPHY & GIMER, LLC > > 7940-A Wisconsin Avenue > > Bethesda, MD 20814 > > 301 913-0060; 301 913-5415 (fax) > > http://www.murphygimer.com > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product > > search > > http://shopping.yahoo.com > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search > http://shopping.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 26 13:47:28 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Michael Lynch , "'DCCycles'" Subject: Re: Good Aprilia Dealer? Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:47:32 -0500 I have been to Cad Cycles in Gaithersburg, MD. They seem like a good place. I got my VFR inspected there and got some parts and stuff, but I haven't had any service done. Probably will get some new rubber next season. They're a independent shop and don't really sell anything new (with the exception of scooters and small bikes), and usually have some other larger used stuff. http://www.cadcycles.com/ Regards, Rob -- Rob Sharp SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer ---------- Original Message ----------- From: Michael Lynch To: "'DCCycles'" Sent: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:05:43 -0400 Subject: Good Aprilia Dealer? > Does anyone know a good, reliable Aprilia dealer around here? My > buddy with his Futura went to Coleman's for his first > service just recently, and now the bike is developing a whole bunch > of running problems that it never had before. > > There's no way, in good conscience, that I can let him take it back > to them to "fix" it again. > > Thanks, > Mike > 96 VFR > 88 Hawk > 76 CB400F ------- End of Original Message ------- From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 26 13:56:53 2003 From: "Laura Roach" To: "Sean Steele" , "'DCCycles'" Subject: Re: Good Aprilia Dealer? Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:21:13 -0400 > > > Does anyone know a good, reliable Aprilia dealer > > around > > > here? If you want a shop that's excellent at working on Aprilia's...SpeedWerks in Delaware is who you want to talk to. Roach goes up there about once a week and if you're nice, he'd probably take the bike and bring it back for you. If you want more info, email Brian at roach@XXXXXX. Laura From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 26 13:59:11 2003 Subject: Re: Good Aprilia Dealer? Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:59:00 -0500 From: To: Does Clinton cycles still carry Aprilia? I am curious on how a oil change can cause running problems?? George >>> Michael Lynch 09/26/03 12:05PM >>> Does anyone know a good, reliable Aprilia dealer around here? My buddy with his Futura went to Coleman's for his first service just recently, and now the bike is developing a whole bunch of running problems that it never had before. There's no way, in good conscience, that I can let him take it back to them to "fix" it again. Thanks, Mike 96 VFR 88 Hawk 76 CB400F From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 26 14:00:09 2003 Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:59:47 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: seanwebmail@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Good Aprilia Dealer? X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 The only thing I've found Coleman's good for is to go try stuff on. They have a pretty decent selection of jackets, pants, helmets, etc. I've bought off of them a couple times but, only after managing to talk them down or when the sale price was really good. :-) Normally I have my bike serviced and buy accessories from CycleSport in Alexandria. Friendly sales and service staff. They all pretty much know me by name when I walk in and treat me great. Scooter In a message dated 9/26/2003 1:10:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, seanwebmail@XXXXXX writes: > > > Is Coleman's *that* bad? Fun anecdotes anyone? > > -Sean > > --- Tom Gimer wrote: > > run, do not walk, away > > > > from http://www.apriliadealers.com/ > > > > Moto Strada > > 9918 C. York Rd. - 21030 Cockeysville (MD) > > Tel. 410-666-8377 Fax 410-666-0821 > > > > Ken's Cycle Center > > 501 E. Nine Mile Road - 23075 Highland Springs (VA) > > Tel. 804-737-7803 Fax 804-737-8333 > > > > Redline Performance Motorsports Inc. > > 7331 George Washington Memorial Hwy. - 23692 > > Yorktown (VA) > > Tel. 757-989-5000 Fax 757-989-3591 > > > > > > > > --- Michael Lynch wrote: > > > Does anyone know a good, reliable Aprilia dealer > > around > > > here? My buddy with > > > his Futura went to Coleman's for his > > first > > > service just recently, > > > and now the bike is developing a whole bunch of > > running > > > problems that it > > > never had before. > > > > > > There's no way, in good conscience, that I can let > > him > > > take it back to them > > > to "fix" it again. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Mike > > > 96 VFR > > > 88 Hawk > > > 76 CB400F > > > > > > > > > ===== > > Thomas H. Gimer > > MURPHY & GIMER, LLC > > 7940-A Wisconsin Avenue > > Bethesda, MD 20814 > > 301 913-0060; 301 913-5415 (fax) > > http://www.murphygimer.com > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product > > search > > http://shopping.yahoo.com > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search > http://shopping.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 26 14:06:17 2003 Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 11:06:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Good Aprilia Dealer? On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 George.Cole@XXXXXX wrote: > Does Clinton cycles still carry Aprilia? I don't believe so. Last time I was in there they didn't have any -- I think they're mostly a Ducati and Triumph shop, plus the usual suspects (used bikes, etc). Incidentally, Clinton Cycles also does not call you when your parts arrive. And it took them many weeks (~5-6) to get in a simple sprocket set for my bike. Still, they're on the way home, and seem friendly enough. Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 26 14:07:55 2003 Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 11:07:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Good Aprilia Dealer? To: George.Cole@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- George.Cole@XXXXXX wrote: > Does Clinton cycles still carry Aprilia? > > I am curious on how a oil change can cause running > problems?? the same way an oil change can cause bent rotors, only easier, i.e., too much oil, not enough oil, not oil, "test rides", acts of god, etc. -- tg > >>> Michael Lynch 09/26/03 12:05PM >>> > Does anyone know a good, reliable Aprilia dealer around > here? My buddy > with > his Futura went to Coleman's for his first > service just > recently, > and now the bike is developing a whole bunch of running > problems that it > never had before. ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940-A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 26 15:15:19 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: , Subject: Re: Viffer flunks inspection Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:13:42 -0400 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2003 11:51 PM Subject: Re: Viffer flunks inspection > In a message dated 9/25/2003 11:57:17 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > pawilson@XXXXXX writes: > > > Care to accompany me on my re-inspection? ;-) > > Do not tempt me. > It does occur to me that the bulb and or its box most likely has some sort of > "meets federal standard ????? for highway use" If so you have all you need. > If the bulb meets federal regulations the city/state of DC does not have the > right to disallow it. > Of course if it says "not for street use" you are screwed. > > > John Walters (Long John) I went back this morning. 8 in the morning seems to be the witching hour. No line. Anyway, passed with flying colors, sans lights. And yes Carl "Big Honking Tooters" Custer, I did turn 'em on yesterday. :) That didn't cut any ice, in fact, it probably made matters worse, 'cuz they started making ominous noises about " improper aiming." Whatever.... Oh, y'all will love this. The inspectors seem to think a valid "brake test" is performed by having the rider squeeze the lever and try to move the bike with his feet. Forks compress, therefore brakes pass. I could prolly do the same thing with no pads in the calipers and still not be able to move the bike. I should write a letter to the new DMV chief, cc'ed to the Mayor and my Councilmember, asking just what the Sam Hill they think is being accomplished by testing bikes *at all* if inspections are going to be done in such an absurd, arbitrary and unprofessional manner. Maybe we need a mail-in inspection program. :) To add insult to injury, they tack on a $20 surcharge to your registration fee every other year for this "service." Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Sep 26 15:28:35 2003 Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:31:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Viffer flunks inspection From: "Jeff Steele"