From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 2 07:10:14 2003 Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 07:08:59 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: Sturgis, SD Every year tens of thousands of bikers gather at Sturgis. What about next year? Unless Janklow gets his leadfoot ass in a serious jail time sling, I'm going to champion a boycott of Sturgis. Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 2 09:12:03 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: Re: Sturgis, SD Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 09:11:25 -0400 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec795b3c9b60c0d90889508ab89a416ff6c4350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c > Every year tens of thousands of bikers gather at Sturgis. What about > next year? Unless Janklow gets his leadfoot ass in a serious jail time > sling, I'm going to champion a boycott of Sturgis. [Dave] Why? The state won't care. IIRC, we tried the same thing with SC for the whole SLED/Spartanburg incident, which similarly, did nothing. It will mostly hurt the businesses which make money there. Janklow's been charged, so the state is at least trying to be fair. So long as the prosecution doesn't blow it, and he gets a fair trial; conviction or no, he didn't "Just get away with it"... Dave From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 2 09:22:08 2003 Subject: Re: A-musing while storms abusing From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 02 Sep 2003 09:17:57 -0400 On Sat, 2003-08-30 at 19:01, Mobacc wrote: > First musing. From recent posts -- > > o Again, though, WEAR your MC gear ALL THE TIME. IT will save you ass! > > o He was wearing a 'stitch that saved his hide (literally). > To be clear on my side as well. I look at these accidents and see what could have been done to avoid/prevent and compare it against my own riding style. I do ride on the right side of the left lane so someone wacking the front of his bike could happen to me. Then I consider what I could have done to avoid it. Two factors was the newness of the biker to the bike and the apparent weaving based on his comment. I wasn't knocking the gear and I was certainly not advocating avoiding wearing gear. Another example is the two bikers out in SD and the politico. Without knowing the driving conditions and my only experience with the eastern side of the state being the flatlands around the freeway, my question would be: how come they didn't see this maniac on their left doing 70mph+? Yes, mitigating factors are corn fields/sunflower fields and time of day. But, wear your gear. Drive defensively. Have eyes in the sides, back and top of your head. They _are_ out to get you :-) Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 2 09:26:11 2003 Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 06:26:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Gear Reports. In the interests of scientific inquiry, I decided to do some real-world testing of my gear last night. You'll all be pleased to hear that it worked just fine, thanks, in a low-speed lowside in a gravel parking lot. 5-15 mph, landed on my front and skidded for a couple of feet. Nothing too dramatic; I thought I would begin my real-world testing with something simple. HJC CL-12 fullface helmet: scrapes across the visor, wet nasty dirt everywhere. Head's fine, although my glasses aren't -- I think that's more from me flinging them into the grass in frustration than from the crash, though. Vanson Cobra (Mk I) with back protector and elbow pads: No damage, but wet nasty dirt everywhere. I've got some very minor bruises and scrapes on my elbows. Teknic Defender boots: No damage, but wet nasty dirt everywhere. Feet feel fine. Joe Rocket Ballistic pants: No damage, but wet nasty dirt everywhere. These pants effing suck, though: the pouches for the kneepads are simply falling apart, even before the crash. The left kneepad has been living in my tankbag for a while now. Knees are barked and hurt a bit. Olympia gloves, can't recall the exact type: Fine. No complaints. Overall, I'm only very mildly banged up, but had the devil's own time getting the bike shiny-side-up (hah! more like muddy-side-up) in the wet gravel. Actually, I managed to get it up only to have it tip over onto the _other_ (left) side. Bah. Bah! I'm stiff and sore today, but I suspect that's mostly from fighting with the bike. As of last night, it wouldn't start (or even turn over), but I was in no mood to poke at it in the stormy darkness. I'll go over today to poke at it and see if I can't get it running. Hope I can, because otherwise I'm without a vehicle. Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 2 09:29:26 2003 Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 09:28:11 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Dave Yates CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Sturgis, SD Dave Yates wrote: > > Every year tens of thousands of bikers gather at Sturgis. What about > > next year? Unless Janklow gets his leadfoot ass in a serious jail time > > sling, I'm going to champion a boycott of Sturgis. > > [Dave] Why? The state won't care. IIRC, we tried the same thing with SC > for the whole SLED/Spartanburg incident, which similarly, did nothing. It > will mostly hurt the businesses which make money there. Janklow's been > charged, so the state is at least trying to be fair. So long as the > prosecution doesn't blow it, and he gets a fair trial; conviction or no, he > didn't "Just get away with it"... > > Dave True. Of course I'll boycott anyway. Rallys aren't my thang. Went to Daytona once = Trailer Week. Jebuss, what a buncha posers. Neked titties galore, but after being flashed seventy-`leven times I'd rather be riding. Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 2 09:38:37 2003 Subject: Re: Gear Reports. From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 02 Sep 2003 09:34:26 -0400 On Tue, 2003-09-02 at 09:26, Fish Flowers wrote: > In the interests of scientific inquiry, I decided to do some real-world > testing of my gear last night. You'll all be pleased to hear that it > worked just fine, thanks, in a low-speed lowside in a gravel parking lot. > 5-15 mph, landed on my front and skidded for a couple of feet. Nothing too > dramatic; I thought I would begin my real-world testing with something > simple. > Glad to see your gear passed the test and that you're ok. How did it happen? > HJC CL-12 fullface helmet: scrapes across the visor, wet nasty dirt > everywhere. Head's fine, although my glasses aren't -- I think that's more > from me flinging them into the grass in frustration than from the crash, > though. > I've been there. For the trip my wife gave me a stone to keep in my pocket to keep me calm in the event of frustration. I think the only time I got frustrated what kept me calm was the realization that I was a few thousand miles from home. > Overall, I'm only very mildly banged up, but had the devil's own time > getting the bike shiny-side-up (hah! more like muddy-side-up) in the wet > gravel. Actually, I managed to get it up only to have it tip over onto the > _other_ (left) side. Bah. Bah! I'm stiff and sore today, but I suspect > that's mostly from fighting with the bike. As of last night, it wouldn't > start (or even turn over), but I was in no mood to poke at it in the > stormy darkness. I'll go over today to poke at it and see if I can't get > it running. Hope I can, because otherwise I'm without a vehicle. > I hope you didn't kick it or anything. Did you sacrifice the chicken this time (you mention scrapes)? > Fish. > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 2 09:39:36 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: "Fish Flowers" , "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: Gear Reports. Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 09:39:00 -0400 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec7921c36bd3d55f912abec8de60178fa3bc350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Our very own gear tester reported: > In the interests of scientific inquiry, I decided to do some real-world > testing of my gear last night. You'll all be pleased to hear that it > worked just fine, thanks, in a low-speed lowside in a gravel parking lot. > 5-15 mph, landed on my front and skidded for a couple of feet. Nothing too > dramatic; I thought I would begin my real-world testing with something > simple. [Dave] Glad you decided to start small ;-) glad you're ok. > > HJC CL-12 fullface helmet: scrapes across the visor, wet nasty dirt > everywhere. Head's fine, although my glasses aren't -- I think that's more > from me flinging them into the grass in frustration than from the crash, > though. > > Vanson Cobra (Mk I) with back protector and elbow pads: No damage, but > wet nasty dirt everywhere. I've got some very minor bruises and scrapes on > my elbows. > > Teknic Defender boots: No damage, but wet nasty dirt everywhere. Feet feel > fine. > > Joe Rocket Ballistic pants: No damage, but wet nasty dirt everywhere. > These pants effing suck, though: the pouches for the kneepads are simply > falling apart, even before the crash. The left kneepad has been living > in my tankbag for a while now. Knees are barked and hurt a bit. > > Olympia gloves, can't recall the exact type: Fine. No complaints. > > Overall, I'm only very mildly banged up, but had the devil's own time > getting the bike shiny-side-up (hah! more like muddy-side-up) in the wet > gravel. Actually, I managed to get it up only to have it tip over onto the > _other_ (left) side. Bah. Bah! I'm stiff and sore today, but I suspect > that's mostly from fighting with the bike. As of last night, it wouldn't > start (or even turn over), but I was in no mood to poke at it in the > stormy darkness. I'll go over today to poke at it and see if I can't get > it running. Hope I can, because otherwise I'm without a vehicle. [Dave] Good luck getting it running. Honestly Fish, we really don't need any more reports on gear durability ;-) get well... Dave From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 2 09:49:09 2003 Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 06:49:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Gear Report. On 2 Sep 2003, Carl Schelin wrote: > How did it happen? Not sure. The gravel was newly wet (it had just begun raining), and this was in a parking lot, so there was probably oil everywhere. Choppy throttle may also have been an issue. Feelin' pretty stupid, too, because I didn't even have to go through that gravel lot, I was just trying to save a couple seconds... and instead the rest of my evening and all of today is shot. Oops. Teach me to be hasty. Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 2 10:25:40 2003 Subject: One Picture From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 02 Sep 2003 10:21:28 -0400 That's right. Rita developed the roll that has a bunch of stuff including this one picture: http://www.schelin.org [geocities.com] I almost have the two weeks of notes transcribed, pictures adjusted and presentation finalized. Just a couple of more days and it'll be ready to view. (I had to work this weekend :-( Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 2 10:49:53 2003 Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 10:44:20 -0400 From: "Steven C. Di Pietro" To: Carl Schelin , DCCycles Subject: Re: A-musing while storms abusing X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out006.verizon.net from [151.196.44.171] at Tue, 2 Sep 2003 09:49:42 -0500 Carl Schelin wrote: > >Another example is the two bikers out in SD and the politico. Without >knowing the driving conditions and my only experience with the eastern >side of the state being the flatlands around the freeway, my question >would be: how come they didn't see this maniac on their left doing >70mph+? Yes, mitigating factors are corn fields/sunflower fields and >time of day. > > Carl, In several articles I read about the incident, they cited the 6 ft. tall corn fields blocked sight lines at the intersection. Steven C. Di Pietro Interim National Director The Suzuki Owners Club -USA 16 W. Jeffrey Street Baltimore Md. 21225-1713 http://www.soc-usa.org 1996 Suzuki Katana 600 2001 Suzuki Marauder 800 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 2 10:58:52 2003 Subject: Re: A-musing while storms abusing From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 02 Sep 2003 10:54:41 -0400 On Tue, 2003-09-02 at 10:44, Steven C. Di Pietro wrote: > Carl Schelin wrote: > > > > >Another example is the two bikers out in SD and the politico. Without > >knowing the driving conditions and my only experience with the eastern > >side of the state being the flatlands around the freeway, my question > >would be: how come they didn't see this maniac on their left doing > >70mph+? Yes, mitigating factors are corn fields/sunflower fields and > >time of day. > > > > > Carl, > In several articles I read about the incident, they cited > the 6 ft. tall corn fields blocked sight lines at the intersection. Thanks. While I read the articles I wasn't thinking about it at the time and later thought they were soybeans. > > Steven C. Di Pietro > Interim National Director > The Suzuki Owners Club -USA Hey, since I have you here :-) The bike I had on my website: 95 GSXR 750. Tim didn't get any calls on it so he's giving it to me in exchange for equity and cash and taking over payments on my truck (sounds weird but it works). If no one wants it, we're going to take it to the Honda dealer in Woodbridge and get Rita's bike. Of course if someone buys it before then it won't break my heart ;-) Website is http://www.schelin.org/personal/forsale if you want to pass it on. Price has dropped since I have no money invested in the paint job. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 2 11:41:56 2003 Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 11:41:39 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: cschelin@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: One Picture X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 Hey Carl, the zipper on your chaps is open. :-) Sorry, couldn't resist. Scooter In a message dated 9/2/2003 10:21:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time, cschelin@XXXXXX writes: > > > That's right. Rita developed the roll that has a bunch of stuff > including this one picture: http://www.schelin.org [geocities.com] > > I almost have the two weeks of notes transcribed, pictures adjusted and > presentation finalized. Just a couple of more days and > it'll be ready to > view. (I had to work this weekend :-( > > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 2 12:08:53 2003 Subject: Re: One Picture From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 02 Sep 2003 12:04:41 -0400 If you look harder you'll see the black electrical tape I was using to hold it together. Look about two-thirds up the shin aligned with the bottom of my thigh. I had two bands around the thigh. It actually rode better and didn't flap. Carl On Tue, 2003-09-02 at 11:41, ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: > Hey Carl, the zipper on your chaps is open. :-) Sorry, couldn't resist. > > Scooter > > In a message dated 9/2/2003 10:21:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time, cschelin@XXXXXX writes: > > > > > > > That's right. Rita developed the roll that has a bunch of stuff > > including this one picture: http://www.schelin.org [geocities.com] > > > > I almost have the two weeks of notes transcribed, pictures adjusted and > > presentation finalized. Just a couple of more days and > > it'll be ready to > > view. (I had to work this weekend :-( > > > > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 2 12:20:49 2003 Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 09:20:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Helmets Save Lives. Cute graphic: http://www.livejournal.com/community/motorcycles/455977.html Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 2 12:24:14 2003 Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 12:24:08 -0400 To: Fish Flowers , DC-Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Gear Reports. At 06:26 AM 9/2/03 -0700, Fish Flowers wrote: >In the interests of scientific inquiry, I decided to do some real-world >testing of my gear last night. You'll all be pleased to hear that it >worked just fine, thanks, in a low-speed lowside in a gravel parking lot. >5-15 mph, landed on my front and skidded for a couple of feet. Nothing too >dramatic; I thought I would begin my real-world testing with something >simple. Very public-spirited of you! Thank you for the information from your real-world testing! (I'm also glad to hear that you are pretty much ok. Hope your bike is too...). >Overall, I'm only very mildly banged up, but had the devil's own time >getting the bike shiny-side-up (hah! more like muddy-side-up) in the wet >gravel. I can imagine... My one-and-only bike mishap with my Honda involved it falling over after impacting a big car at about 2 mph (*almost* got it stopped...). I was so charged up on adrenaline at that point that I just grabbed the bars with my left hand, and the frame under the seat with my right, and stood it back up without really thinking about it. I believe that bike was about 515 lbs, wet...but I was on dry pavement, not wet gravel, and I'm not exactly tiny which helped. :^) > Actually, I managed to get it up only to have it tip over onto the >_other_ (left) side. Bah. Bah! Adrenaline will do that to you. Fine motor control tends to go early, and you are temporarily stronger than you are used to being. It's easy to overshoot things. Not that knowing any of that makes it any less frustrating at the time. >As of last night, it wouldn't >start (or even turn over), but I was in no mood to poke at it in the >stormy darkness. I'll go over today to poke at it and see if I can't get >it running. Hope I can, because otherwise I'm without a vehicle. Hope it's something easy, like a sparkplug wire that came off or a stuck switch or something. -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 2 12:26:47 2003 Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 12:26:36 -0400 To: "William J. Huson" , Dave Yates From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Sturgis, SD Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 09:28 AM 9/2/03 -0400, William J. Huson wrote: >Went to Daytona >once = Trailer Week. Jebuss, what a buncha posers. I've thought about going there. Have to wait to see how much I like long rides first...once I get the bike. Local HD dealer doesn't have any '04 yet, but they are selling them anyway...despite not being able to give a final price yet. Nuts, huh? I'll probably go over this week and get on the list... >Neked titties galore, but >after being flashed seventy-`leven times I'd rather be riding. *How* old did you say you were?? :^) -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 2 12:32:49 2003 Subject: Re: Gear Reports. From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 02 Sep 2003 12:28:31 -0400 On Tue, 2003-09-02 at 12:24, Mike Bartman wrote: > My one-and-only bike mishap with my Honda involved it falling over after > impacting a big car at about 2 mph (*almost* got it stopped...). I was so > charged up on adrenaline at that point that I just grabbed the bars with my > left hand, and the frame under the seat with my right, and stood it back up > without really thinking about it. I believe that bike was about 515 lbs, > wet...but I was on dry pavement, not wet gravel, and I'm not exactly tiny > which helped. :^) > Two years ago I had an FLSTC (Softail Classic; bags, windshield, etc). I'd back it out of the garage onto the sidewalk and then down the driveway next to Rita's car to the street. One morning I cut it a little too close and tried to lean the left signal away from Rita's car only to drop the bike. It was laying semi-sideways with the shiny side facing downhill. So it didn't roll away and hit Rita's car or get dropped again, I lifted it with my right hand holding the handlebar/front brake and left hand under the rear fender. > -- Mike Bartman > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 2 13:30:09 2003 Subject: RE: Gear Reports. Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 13:29:59 -0400 From: "Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services" To: Since everyone is sharing their moments of miscalculation, I will tell you about my 'crash' on 211. The day featured sporratic thunderstorms, but the pavement dried out quickly; I was going up and down the mountain with no problems. It was a nice weekend afternoon, and the bike crowd cleared out when the rain hit earlier in the day, so I had the road all to myself. I usually end my rides at the straightaways. I just make a U turn on the gravel pullover and time the traffic to have as much free space as possible. But that day, I simply wasn't thinking and didn't shed enough speed on the pavement before pulling off. I turned off, and felt the gravel to be a little wet and loose, so just to be on the safe side, I decided to use the extra 5 feet of grass in front of me. No biggie. Unfortunately, the grass hid a big hole and some kind of a log. The second my front wheel fell in the hole, there was no saving it and the bike fell on it's left side. At that point, I was going <5mph. Damage: bent shift lever on my R6. Gear report: I fell on my left elbow and leg, and my Joe Rocket Speedmaster 1 piece kept me protected. I didn't feel a thing! :) 'I-also-crashed-on-211' Witold From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 2 13:42:31 2003 From: To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Sturgis, SD Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 13:42:20 -0400 I think I'm going to ride down to Biketoberfest. Anyone riding down last year or going this year? -aki > > From: Mike Bartman > Date: 2003/09/02 Tue PM 12:26:36 EDT > To: "William J. Huson" , Dave Yates > CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Sturgis, SD > > At 09:28 AM 9/2/03 -0400, William J. Huson wrote: > > >Went to Daytona > >once = Trailer Week. Jebuss, what a buncha posers. > > I've thought about going there. Have to wait to see how much I like long > rides first...once I get the bike. Local HD dealer doesn't have any '04 > yet, but they are selling them anyway...despite not being able to give a > final price yet. Nuts, huh? I'll probably go over this week and get on > the list... > > >Neked titties galore, but > >after being flashed seventy-`leven times I'd rather be riding. > > *How* old did you say you were?? :^) > > -- Mike Bartman > > **************************************************************************** > * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * > * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * > * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * > *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* > * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * > **************************************************************************** > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 2 14:21:30 2003 Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 11:21:17 -0700 (PDT) From: matthew patton Subject: Re: Gear Reports. To: Fish Flowers > Joe Rocket Ballistic pants: No damage, but wet nasty dirt everywhere. > These pants effing suck, though: the pouches for the kneepads are > simply > falling apart, even before the crash. The left kneepad has been > living > in my tankbag for a while now. Knees are barked and hurt a bit. you and me (and lots of others) got the 'old' version. It was a design defect. Send the pants into JR customer service and they'll hook you up with a brand new (and redesigned pair). My new ones are doing the business. > gravel. Actually, I managed to get it up only to have it tip over > onto the > _other_ (left) side. put the kickstand out first... If I hadn't slugged in I could have popped by during lunch. Probably something stupid like a kill switch. ===== * Love, not time, heals all wounds. * No one is perfect until you fall in love with them. And then when they aren't perfect anymore, love makes them perfect again. * Everyone wants to live on top of the mountain, but all the happiness and growth occurs while you're climbing it * You can not forgive unless you first love. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 2 14:51:13 2003 Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 14:50:16 -0400 From: Skip To: Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services , DC Cycles Subject: Re: Gear Reports. Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services wrote: > > Since everyone is sharing their moments of miscalculation [snip] this came off of another list. Glad I couldn't have written it. :~) Ninety Degrees of Separation How Do I Drop Thee . . . Let Me Count the Ways Dropping a motorcycle is not as easy as it looks. I am not talking about low sides, high sides, laying it down, acing the bike, hitting some oil, coolant or black ice, or any other term for getting ass over tea kettle at speed -- anybody can do that. Just get a bike, point it straight down the road, pin the throttle, and wait for the fun when it comes time to turn the damn thing. I am talking specifically about the almost forgotten art of getting the bike to fall over at any speed from 0 to .5 MPH. Most people just don't know how to do this correctly. I mean there are young riders out there on some little ZZX1RY2VF Mach 3 sport bikes that weighs just over 40 pounds, and it never occurs to them to practice dropping and picking them up. And then they wonder why we call them squids. I, on the other hand, have chosen as an adjunct to my motorcycling hobby, to become an expert on the various methods and styles of getting the thing to just fall over. I practice all the time, and have attained the level of Black and Blue Belt. Now, for the sake of those of you who are always on the lookout for riding tips and drills, I will set down some guidelines by which you too can discover the joys of falling down and going boom. First, it is essential to get the right equipment. Since dropping a motorcycle is somewhat counter intuitive, it helps if you get the right bike for the job. Ideally, you want something with a whole bunch of weight carried way up high in the frame. That way, once you let that puppy lean more than 5 or 6 degrees from vertical, the choice is no longer yours. You are committed to going down so you might as well enjoy it. Another important characteristic to factor in is seat height. Eye level is best, or at least high enough so that you can only get two feet down if you are on Pointe. (Note to self: Find out if Alpinestar makes ballet boots.) Finally, it really helps if you are naturally gifted with an inseam of 29 inches or less. If you are tall, what can I say? You must learn to undercome your handicap. The choice of motorcycle is certainly up to you, but I have two personal favorites that I highly recommend. Both are elegantly tall and heavy and can be dropped by almost anybody. The first is a Honda V65 Sabre -- truly a classic )B­ big, tall, heavy, and unstable at a standstill. Just sitting there parked, it seems to call out to you to kick up its side stand and try to walk it forward. I will never forget the first time I was pinned under my Sabre at a gas station. What a glorious feeling of helplessness, mingled with embarrassment, coupled with an inability to breathe, tinged with rising panic. It was a truly sublime. The V65 Sabre is indeed a great starter dropee, making every stop and go an adventure in possible outcomes. Recently, however, I have come to appreciate another bike, the Honda ST 1100, for its lithe delicate beauty at 80 MPH, that masks its unbelievable wallowishness at a walk. Unlike the Sabre, which usually bends or breaks something when it hits the deck, Honda designed the ST with horizontality in mind. It has a well placed engine and body guard on each side that prevents serious damage while still giving you the thrill of waving goodbye to 700 pounds of determined machine. Believe me, that ST can be dropped over and over and it keeps coming back for more. Of course if you feel you must do some damage to the bike to prove your prowess, you can always drop it on a curb. If you play the angle and deflection just right, you can easily destroy $200 worth of mirror and mirror housing. It's your choice. Either way, the ST responds to letting go of it every time. Of course, there are many other examples of good dropping material, and the choice of machine is certainly a personal one. But I would like to remind you that the more expensive and undamaged your bike is when dropped, the more satisfying will be your emotional catharsis. There is almost nothing to compare to dropping a brand new Harley Extra Wide Glide BFD on the way out of the dealer)Bıs lot. Now, once you have mastered the basic stepping-on-oil-foot-slide, and the equally simple gravel-under-the-boot-whoops, you can move onto the more sophisticated drops. Here are a few of my favorites. The first two involve effective use of the dropper's ally, the side stand: Parking the bike on the side stand, facing downhill with the transmission in neutral. Yes, it)Bıs an oldie bordering on cliché, but somehow it manages to remain on the top ten list, year after year. I am sure it brings back memories for many of you. That exquisite first squeak of movement, followed closely by the delicious catching of breath and rise of nausea as we see our brand new (of course it is) motorcycle slowly work its way forward on the side stand and then head for pay-dirt (actually pay-asphalt). Lowering the side stand on a perfectly positioned bump that causes the bike to be too vertical. That way, when you dismount left, the bike has a really good chance of diving to the right when the suspension unloads, or escaping that, at the moment when you gently break the camel's back by removing the weight of your key. Now those two are what I like to call "Watching it Go" drops. Very pleasant to behold, especially since they always seem to happen in slow motion. The following are co-dependent drops where the rider is astride his beloved steed, and both go down together, Mano et Machino: This next one, the last in the side stand series. Leaving the side stand down while backing the bike up. I promise that if you get in the habit of doing this, one of these days you will be fortunate enough to run that stand up an incline or bump and realize that you are about to experience the confluence of going over with your motorcycle. It's sort of like bungee jumping without all those cumbersome rubber bands. If bodily injury is your thing, hold on tight and try to stop the bike from going over. On the other hand if you would rather be able to step away and join your friends in admiring your handiwork, by all means allow yourself to be thrown clear from the soon-to-be-parts-bike. You can then get up, dust yourself off, and start entertaining offers. The next couple of drops have a higher degree of difficulty because you are on your own -- no more side stand to help you out. They both involve critical decision making as to where to stop&drop, or walk&drop the bike. For the stop&drop, there is but one simple rule: Always choose to stop the bike on precipitously sloping terrain. The perfect location would be on a crest, with the ground on both sides of the bike sloping away at an extreme angle. Picture in your mind parking the bike on the edge of a knife. You will know you are in the right place when neither of your feet can touch the ground, and you have the option of choosing either side as ground zero. However, since such perfect terrain is rarely available, you should expect to use the more common terrain that only slopes to one side or the other. My personal favorite, an example of which I recently revisited in Chattanooga, Tennessee, is stopping in the curb lane of a street on which the center line is much higher above sea level than the curb. Sure, I could have leaned it left and kept every thing on the up and up, but imagine the glorious moment of terror I felt as my right foot wildly sought purchase on nonexistent asphalt. Then, after what seemed like an eternity of falling, I was rudely spit out prone upon the sidewalk, while my ST)Bıs body work exploded against the curb. Did I mention that this happened on a busy thoroughfare with oodles of bemused bystanders? Oh, yes. I also recall that as I lay there, I was actually trying to transport my body to another location by the sheer power of wishing it so. I know I would have been successful in beaming up to the Enterprise had I not been brought back from deep space by a policeman asking me if I was okay. Walk&drops most often occur when you return to your bike after having parked it in a challenging location )B­ tight, uneven terrain, where you have to ease the throttle, feather the clutch and waddle walk the bike away from danger. A really good example of this would be parking your cycle right in the middle of a line of customized Harleys at a rough biker hangout. If that)Bıs still not enough of a challenge, you can add the element having to traverse an edge trap at a shallow angle. (NOTE: In this context I am not referring to edge traps as you find them on the road: uneven pavement joints, metal plates, trolley tracks, etc.) At creeping speed, many small items can have the same effect on you and your bike as say a railroad tie at 60 MPH. Always be on the lookout for such things as clods of dirt, seashells, or dead beetles, and be confident that any of these could deflect your front wheel just enough to start the dominoes falling. I know someone who was tripped up by a garden hose and managed to take out three other bikes with him. That hose might as well have been a rattlesnake for all the grief it caused him. The final area of concern which must be considered in expert dropping is your choice of dropping environment. In other words, do you choose to spiral in at a time and place where there are multiple witnesses, like New York City at rush hour, or in some desolate location where no one is around to score your dive? At first glance, you would think that the more populated drop environment would be superior in terms of pure shame, but the isolated drop has the more subtle reward of you having to look at your downed steed for a longer period of time. If it)Bıs real isolated, say like the Mojave desert in August, this type of reward could last a very short lifetime )B­ way too much of a good thing. Of course, you only have to worry about such things if you have made the right choice of bike, i.e. one that is much too heavy to lift up by yourself. (Lifting your fallen bike will be the subject of Part 2, )B³The View From Beneath.²) So, there you have it, your rubber side up, shiny side down primer. If you practice these techniques well, I promise you not only a satisfying new hobby, but a deeper personal relationship with your dealer's parts manager. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 2 19:27:30 2003 Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 16:27:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Sad Bike. Just got back from looking at the bike. She won't start... won't even turn over when I hit the start button, for that matter. The battery works -- lights turn on, brake lights and turn signals work. But there doesn't seem to be spark, or even that "whicka-whicka-whicka" sound I'm so used to from my other bike. Ripped off the headlamp (which was skewed in the frame and yanked over to the side); there's a blue wiring harness in there which doesn't seem to be attached to anything. Black, black-stripe, blue-stripe, green, orange, grey wires. I didn't see a place to connect it to, though... is that how things are supposed to be? I looked around for any other obviously loose connections, but didn't see any. Anyone have any ideas? Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 2 19:48:13 2003 Reply-To: "Jon Strang" From: "Jon Strang" To: "Fish Flowers" Cc: Subject: Re: Sad Bike. Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 19:48:10 -0400 Battery fine + Motor not spinning when depress starter = (a) Starter/Starter solenoid dead (b) No electrons making it to Starter/Starter solenoid. Based on the fact of your crash, I vote for (b). Prolly broken switch, torn wire(s), and/or disconnected connections. I don't think any of the wires or conx that is/were in your headlamp case that got ripped open, but maybe behind it. Might be a bitch to find, will be easy to fix when you find it. --jon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fish Flowers" To: "DC-Cycles" Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 7:27 PM Subject: Sad Bike. > Just got back from looking at the bike. She won't start... won't even turn > over when I hit the start button, for that matter. The battery works -- > lights turn on, brake lights and turn signals work. But there doesn't seem > to be spark, or even that "whicka-whicka-whicka" sound I'm so used to from > my other bike. > > Ripped off the headlamp (which was skewed in the frame and yanked over to > the side); there's a blue wiring harness in there which doesn't seem to be > attached to anything. Black, black-stripe, blue-stripe, green, orange, > grey wires. I didn't see a place to connect it to, though... is that how > things are supposed to be? I looked around for any other obviously loose > connections, but didn't see any. > > Anyone have any ideas? > > Fish. > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 2 21:24:18 2003 From: "lisagoddard" To: Subject: Track day at Summit Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 21:21:46 -0400 Today was a wash out as far as riding at Summit Point. I got in one session but the rain never did let up. I figure with my commute home last Tuesday during the storm I have gotten plenty of time in the saddle during rain. It was nice to see fellow lister Randy Moran. Is anybody heading up to Beaver Run this weekend to run with Sport Bike Track Time? Lisa Goddard www.motorcycleleatherexchange.com '95 VFR '92 FZR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Sep 2 22:43:39 2003 Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 22:42:57 -0400 To: Fish Flowers , DC-Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Sad Bike. At 04:27 PM 9/2/03 -0700, Fish Flowers wrote: >Just got back from looking at the bike. She won't start... won't even turn >over when I hit the start button, for that matter. The battery works -- >lights turn on, brake lights and turn signals work. But there doesn't seem >to be spark, or even that "whicka-whicka-whicka" sound I'm so used to from >my other bike. Sounds like power to the ignition part of the wiring is gone. I'm no bike mechanic, so all I can do is guess along with you until one comes to help... ;^) If it was my bike I'd probably disconnect the battery cables and use a continuity tester (flashlight battery, a bulb and a couple of scrap wires if you don't have a multimeter with that capability) to trace the wiring until I found something that wasn't connected. That's assuming that all the switches seem to be working normally, and the shutoff switch isn't jammed closed by mud or something, and that the battery tests as having good voltage. I might start at the ignition switch, since if that's not hooked up, nothing will happen at all to the starting system. There's probably a starter relay in there somewhere. It would get a signal from the starter button/switch and control major power from the battery to the starter motor. Without that, you won't get any turning over, or even a click. Also the cables to the starter need to be hooked up and unbroken. Some wire might also just have its insulation damaged so it shorts to the frame...the frame is one of the wires in most circuits and if anything contacts it too soon, no juice to what needs power...path of least resistance and all that. Testing wires that run inside the frame or whatever for this sort of thing might be done by disconnecting the ends and checking for continuity between one end and the frame, while jiggling things a little. If the bike has an anti-theft system on it, and it thinks the bike is being stolen, it might cut power to the ignition...maybe some conductive mud got into something, or maybe there's a tilt switch that's stuck? You said there was a lot or gritty stuff around and it was all over you and the bike... That's all the guesses I've got at the moment...I'll wait to see what those who really know what they are doing have to say now. :^) Good luck! -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 07:26:43 2003 Subject: Honda/Suzuki From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 03 Sep 2003 06:45:52 -0400 Well, while reading a recent Rider magazine I came upon a review for the Honda SilverWing and a Suzuki scooter. If you remember last week, I saw a scooter on HOV. This was the Honda SilverWing. Both are 650cc automatic (switchable to manual) with a parking brake and room under the seat for two full faced helmets. The Suzuki is heavier and has a better setup for higher speeds. I remember the SilverWing as a smaller (650?) GoldWing. Trunk, saddlebags and windshield. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 08:51:02 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 08:32:34 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Dan Brown Subject: Re: Honda/Suzuki At 06:45 AM 9/3/2003 -0400, Carl Schelin wrote: >Well, while reading a recent Rider magazine I came upon a review for the >Honda SilverWing and a Suzuki scooter. > >If you remember last week, I saw a scooter on HOV. This was the Honda >SilverWing. Both are 650cc automatic (switchable to manual) with a >parking brake and room under the seat for two full faced helmets. > >The Suzuki is heavier and has a better setup for higher speeds. > >I remember the SilverWing as a smaller (650?) GoldWing. Trunk, >saddlebags and windshield. I had a friend who had one which was 500cc, shaft drive, opposed V twin. Looks like the also made a 650 Honda GL in later years. -- Resist or Serve From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 08:55:56 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 08:54:36 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Dan Brown CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Honda/Suzuki Dan Brown wrote: > At 06:45 AM 9/3/2003 -0400, Carl Schelin wrote: > >Well, while reading a recent Rider magazine I came upon a review for the > >Honda SilverWing and a Suzuki scooter. > > > >If you remember last week, I saw a scooter on HOV. This was the Honda > >SilverWing. Both are 650cc automatic (switchable to manual) with a > >parking brake and room under the seat for two full faced helmets. > > > >The Suzuki is heavier and has a better setup for higher speeds. > > > >I remember the SilverWing as a smaller (650?) GoldWing. Trunk, > >saddlebags and windshield. > > I had a friend who had one which was 500cc, shaft drive, opposed V twin. > Looks like the also made a 650 Honda GL in later years. Methinks that 500 V-Twin engine was also used in the `80 sumpin Honda with the automatic tranny. A rare bike - didn't sell all that great. Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 09:09:01 2003 From: To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Honda/Suzuki Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 9:08:53 -0400 > > From: "William J. Huson" > Date: 2003/09/03 Wed AM 08:54:36 EDT > To: Dan Brown > CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Honda/Suzuki > > Dan Brown wrote: > > > At 06:45 AM 9/3/2003 -0400, Carl Schelin wrote: > > >Well, while reading a recent Rider magazine I came upon a review for the > > >Honda SilverWing and a Suzuki scooter. > > > > > >If you remember last week, I saw a scooter on HOV. This was the Honda > > >SilverWing. Both are 650cc automatic (switchable to manual) with a > > >parking brake and room under the seat for two full faced helmets. > > > > > >The Suzuki is heavier and has a better setup for higher speeds. > > > > > >I remember the SilverWing as a smaller (650?) GoldWing. Trunk, > > >saddlebags and windshield. > > > > I had a friend who had one which was 500cc, shaft drive, opposed V twin. > > Looks like the also made a 650 Honda GL in later years. > > Methinks that 500 V-Twin engine was also used in the `80 sumpin Honda with > the automatic tranny. A rare bike - didn't sell all that great. > > Bill > you mean the Hondamatic? Rare now a days. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 09:34:57 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 09:34:31 EDT Subject: Re: Gear Reports. To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 9/2/2003 1:30:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Witold@XXXXXX writes: > Since everyone is sharing their moments of miscalculation, Years ago working as a salesperson, Rolling used bikes out of the showroom down a ramp into the parking lot. Push the bikes from the left side as usual but hop on sidesaddle as the bike rolls down the ramp and coast out into the lot. Did you know that if you come to a stop with a bike leaning even a _little_ bit right when you are sitting sidesaddle there is not one damn thing you can do to prevent flopping over? Did you? Now you do. Education is a wonderful thing. Loud pipes quell cells. 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 10:34:19 2003 Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 07:34:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Isaac Blanck Subject: S.D. Public Doubts Fair Treatment For Janklow To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX That's the headline from today's WP. Kinda interesting, as from what I've read, I wouldn't have guessed he's getting treatment more or less favorable. The only specific thing in the article was that he was let go on his own recognisance (ie, no bail). That didn't strike me as out of line, given that he's not a flight risk. We'll see what the preliminary hearing turns up later this month. Here's the link. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A15154-2003Sep2.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 10:36:10 2003 Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 10:26:19 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Taking the edge off Car is in the shop this week. Was due for a regular service, and there was an engine light on. Is ending up costing more to fix than I'd been expecting. OTOH, I've ridden both days so far this work week. That, if nothing else, is helping take the edge off of the car repairs. -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 10:42:58 2003 Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 07:42:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Larry Larson Subject: Re: Honda/Suzuki To: Dan Brown , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Dan Brown wrote: > >If you remember last week, I saw a scooter on HOV. This > was the Honda > >SilverWing. Both are 650cc automatic (switchable to > manual) with a > >parking brake and room under the seat for two full faced > helmets. > > > >The Suzuki is heavier and has a better setup for higher > speeds. The Silver Wing is 600cc with an automatic. The Suzuki Burgman comes in 650cc or 400cc versions, both with a CVT and five push-button selectable "speeds". They weigh 487 and 524 pounds, respectively. Prices for both are ridiculous. 8;) -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 10:50:08 2003 Subject: Re: Honda/Suzuki From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 03 Sep 2003 10:45:55 -0400 On Wed, 2003-09-03 at 10:42, Larry Larson wrote: > --- Dan Brown wrote: > > >If you remember last week, I saw a scooter on HOV. This > > was the Honda > > >SilverWing. Both are 650cc automatic (switchable to > > manual) with a > > >parking brake and room under the seat for two full faced > > helmets. > > > > > >The Suzuki is heavier and has a better setup for higher > > speeds. > > The Silver Wing is 600cc with an automatic. The Suzuki > Burgman comes in 650cc or 400cc versions, both with a CVT > and five push-button selectable "speeds". They weigh 487 > and 524 pounds, respectively. > WAN went down so I couldn't search the name of the Suzuki, thanks. Honda seat height is 29.1" and Suzuki is 29.5". > Prices for both are ridiculous. 8;) > Honda: 7,999 Suzuki: 7,699 No argument. > -- Larry > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 11:37:10 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Re: Honda/Suzuki Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 11:39:09 -0400 Was it a V-twin in the Hondamatics, or was it a parallel twin? Mike 96 VFR 88 Hawk 76 CB400F > -----Original Message----- > From: adamme1@XXXXXX [SMTP:adamme1@XXXXXX] > > > > > > From: "William J. Huson" > > > > > > Dan Brown wrote: > > > > > I had a friend who had one which was 500cc, shaft drive, opposed V > twin. > > > Looks like the also made a 650 Honda GL in later years. > > > > Methinks that 500 V-Twin engine was also used in the `80 sumpin Honda > with > > the automatic tranny. A rare bike - didn't sell all that great. > > > > Bill > > > > > you mean the Hondamatic? Rare now a days. > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 11:38:58 2003 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: amber_knox@XXXXXX From: lisagoddard@XXXXXX Subject: MD Inspection, cage Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 15:38:57 GMT Hi, Can anyone recommend a Maryland car inspector in the Upper Marlboro area? Someone with flexible hours would be best. Thanks! Lisa Goddard '95 VFR '92 FZR www.motorcycleleatherexchange.com --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 11:41:04 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 11:41:02 -0400 To: Isaac Blanck , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: S.D. Public Doubts Fair Treatment For Janklow At 07:34 AM 9/3/03 -0700, Isaac Blanck wrote: >That's the headline from today's WP. Kinda >interesting, as from what I've read, I wouldn't have >guessed he's getting treatment more or less favorable. Reports so far indicate that he's being treated like anyone else. Charged appropriately, investigation checking all the usual things. I suspect this result is due to the well-known "survey bias"...i.e. what you get as answers depends on how you ask the questions. If you don't know the questions, you can't make any use of the survey results...particularly if you don't even see the answers, just a secondhand report of the summary. I.e. a headline like that is basically worthless...except to sell newspapers. For instance: Q: Do you think that criminals should be allowed to obtain guns without any sort of governmental controls? A: No! Headline: "Public supports gun control!" Or... Q: Do you think that the government should ignore the Constitution and deprive you of the means to protect yourself and your loved ones from violent criminal attack? A: No! Headline: "Public opposes gun control!" See how that works? If they don't include the questions, you can't evaluate the results at all, so just ignore any survey reports that fail to include the necessary information and just give you their conclusions about it. -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 11:41:05 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 11:34:47 -0400 To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Gear Reports. At 09:34 AM 9/3/03 EDT, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: >In a message dated 9/2/2003 1:30:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >Witold@XXXXXX writes: > >> Since everyone is sharing their moments of miscalculation, > >Years ago working as a salesperson, >Rolling used bikes out of the showroom down a ramp into the parking lot. >Push the bikes from the left side as usual but hop on sidesaddle as the bike >rolls down the ramp and coast out into the lot. That sentence gave me a chill...like the sort you get when you know you are home alone, and the stairs creak... Why would *anyone* do that???? Throw a leg over it or keep walking beside it (but don't tilt it too far towards you either! :^) >Did you know that if you come to a stop with a bike leaning even a _little_ >bit right when you are sitting sidesaddle there is not one damn thing you can >do to prevent flopping over? Well, DUH! I learned that when I was still pedaling my bikes. I thought everyone had. It's not a matter of mass...a 40 lb bike will do it as easily as a 500 lb one. It's a matter of balance, and once that's shot, you're also fighting momentum too. >Education is a wonderful thing. Yes it is, but I've found that the earlier you pay the tuition, the less it costs you. :^) -- Mike "a 40 lb bike doesn't tend to get bent when you drop it like that...ask me how I know..." Bartman -- **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 11:42:36 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 11:42:34 -0400 To: "Daniel H. Brown" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Taking the edge off At 10:26 AM 9/3/03 -0400, Daniel H. Brown wrote: >Car is in the shop this week. Was due for a regular service, and there >was an engine light on. Is ending up costing more to fix than I'd >been expecting. > >OTOH, I've ridden both days so far this work week. That, if nothing >else, is helping take the edge off of the car repairs. Ummm...in what way? Is it that the fun of riding the bike is improving your mood, or that riding to work in the rain is making the cost of getting your car back seem worthwhile? :^) -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 12:13:14 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: Michael Lynch , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Re: Honda/Suzuki Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 12:13:07 -0400 > From: Michael Lynch > > Was it a V-twin in the Hondamatics, or was it a parallel twin? To the best of my recollection, Honda sold two different Hondamatics in the U.S. One was the CM400A parallel twin, the other the CB750A inline 4. I rode the 750 version. It made my old Honda CB350 seem quick . I don't think any of the CX v-twin bikes (CX500, CX650, GL650 Silver Wing) ever had an automatic. The CX650 was the basis for Honda's one and only turbo street bike, however. And a most impressive display of complexity it was, too. Bob Meyer '92 ST1100, "Candy Glory Red", STOC # 1157 '02 919, "Asphalt" If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 12:35:18 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: "'rmeyer9@XXXXXX'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Re: Honda/Suzuki Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 12:37:31 -0400 Ah, I thought I remembered the CM having something to do with Hondamatic. Had a CM400T until I blew a hole through the top of one of the pistons at 85mph. oops. That was a great bike, but could have used lower handlebars. Mike 96 VFR 88 Hawk 76 CB400F > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Meyer [SMTP:rmeyer9@XXXXXX] > > > From: Michael Lynch > > > > > Was it a V-twin in the Hondamatics, or was it a parallel twin? > > To the best of my recollection, Honda sold two different Hondamatics in > the U.S. One was the CM400A parallel twin, the other the CB750A inline > 4. I rode the 750 version. It made my old Honda CB350 seem quick . > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 13:02:53 2003 Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 10:02:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Isaac Blanck Subject: pressure gauge for tires To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Are the gauges for moto tires the same ones as for cage tires, or do I need to buy one specific to motos? thx jib __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 13:13:15 2003 Subject: Re: pressure gauge for tires From: Brian Roach To: Isaac Blanck Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 03 Sep 2003 13:13:07 -0400 On Wed, 2003-09-03 at 13:02, Isaac Blanck wrote: > Are the gauges for moto tires the same ones as for > cage tires, or do I need to buy one specific to motos? > thx jib Same valve stem ... the only problem you may have is clearance depending on what type/size "head" your gauge has on it. Some bikes are a tight fit when it comes to checking air pressure. Moto-specific gages ... A nice liquid-filled gauge will run you $50 and is a nice addition to your toolbox. The smaller "accu-gage" ones are around $35, and also very good as long as you don't drop them / knock them around (they go out of calibration easily). - Roach From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 13:17:03 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 13:16:59 -0400 From: Stephen Miller To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Re: Honda/Suzuki Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX On Wednesday, September 03, 2003, at 12:13PM, Bob Meyer wrote: >The CX650 was the basis for Honda's one and only turbo street bike, however. And a most >impressive display of complexity it was, too. There was also a CX500 Turbo. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 13:27:58 2003 Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 10:27:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Leon Begeman Subject: Re: Honda/Suzuki To: "William J. Huson" , Dan Brown Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Nope, not that I've ever heard of. The 500 V-twin was used for the Turbo bike, an 80's electronic version of what turbo bikes would be now if anyone built them. Hondas two automatic bikes were the 400 cc twin (Hawk) and CB750 and inline 4. The Hawk Hondamatic was slow enough that taking off from a stop I could roll the throttle WFO and make either a left or right turn without having to worry about traction or scraping parts. Leon --- "William J. Huson" wrote: >. > > Methinks that 500 V-Twin engine was also used in the > `80 sumpin Honda with > the automatic tranny. A rare bike - didn't sell all > that great. > > Bill > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 13:48:43 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 13:47:34 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Mike Bartman CC: Isaac Blanck , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: S.D. Public Doubts Fair Treatment For Janklow Mike Bartman wrote: > At 07:34 AM 9/3/03 -0700, Isaac Blanck wrote: > >That's the headline from today's WP. Kinda > >interesting, as from what I've read, I wouldn't have > >guessed he's getting treatment more or less favorable. > > Reports so far indicate that he's being treated like anyone else. Charged > appropriately, investigation checking all the usual things. I suspect this > result is due to the well-known "survey bias"...i.e. what you get as > answers depends on how you ask the questions. If you don't know the > questions, you can't make any use of the survey results...particularly if > you don't even see the answers, just a secondhand report of the summary. > I.e. a headline like that is basically worthless...except to sell newspapers. > > For instance: > > Q: Do you think that criminals should be allowed to obtain guns without any > sort of governmental controls? > > A: No! > > Headline: "Public supports gun control!" > > Or... > > Q: Do you think that the government should ignore the Constitution and > deprive you of the means to protect yourself and your loved ones from > violent criminal attack? > > A: No! > > Headline: "Public opposes gun control!" > > See how that works? If they don't include the questions, you can't > evaluate the results at all, so just ignore any survey reports that fail to > include the necessary information and just give you their conclusions about > it. > > -- Mike Bartman You want to read grossly biased "survey" questions? Try the NRA surveys. Methinks one of my friends put me on the NRA list for a giggle, seeing as how I've never owned a gun. Survey after survey rolls in with the most heavily twisted querys I've ever read. Busting the survey intent didn't work so I finnaly magic markered in HUGE letters - Don't own a gun, never owned a gun, don't want to own gun! Never received another survey. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 13:50:37 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 13:49:23 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Isaac Blanck CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: pressure gauge for tires Isaac Blanck wrote: > Are the gauges for moto tires the same ones as for > cage tires, or do I need to buy one specific to motos? > thx jib > YES next question From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 13:57:42 2003 Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 13:57:29 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Taking the edge off On Wed, 3 Sep 2003, Mike Bartman wrote: > Ummm...in what way? > > Is it that the fun of riding the bike is improving your mood, or that > riding to work in the rain is making the cost of getting your car back seem > worthwhile? :^) Mostly the former. Riding in the rain isn't so bad when you have decent gear and a bike that is well equipped and capable. As certain other riders on the list have noted, the bike probably needed a good wash, anyhow. -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 14:01:36 2003 Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 14:01:28 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: pressure gauge for tires On Wed, 3 Sep 2003, William J. Huson wrote: > Isaac Blanck wrote: > > > Are the gauges for moto tires the same ones as for > > cage tires, or do I need to buy one specific to motos? > > thx jib > > > > YES > > next question What is the general concensus on when to go about changing summer (hot) air out and putting cold (winter) air in? Do you need a specific guage for each? -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 14:07:26 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 14:07:53 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: pressure gauge for tires I prefer to make the change at the equinox. The air seems to be most 'bouncy' and form fitting at that time of the year. At 02:01 PM 9/3/2003, you wrote: >What is the general concensus on when to go about changing summer (hot) air >out and putting cold (winter) air in? Do you need a specific guage for >each? ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org 2000 Durango SLT 4x4 4.7 44k miles For sale $16k http://classifieds.autos.yahoo.com/class/detail.html?cid=automobiles-1061168440-6238393 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 14:09:00 2003 Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 11:08:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: pressure gauge for tires To: "Daniel H. Brown" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Hardly Abelson sells a nice kit for just that. For only $299.99 they will send you both guages (you do need two) and a bottle of 'official HD' air which is pressurized with real Milwaukee air! --- "Daniel H. Brown" wrote: > On Wed, 3 Sep 2003, William J. Huson wrote: > > Isaac Blanck wrote: > > > > > Are the gauges for moto tires the same ones as > for > > > cage tires, or do I need to buy one specific to > motos? > > > thx jib > > > > > > > YES > > > > next question > > What is the general concensus on when to go about > changing summer (hot) air > out and putting cold (winter) air in? Do you need a > specific guage for > each? > > > -- > Dan Brown > brown@XXXXXX > ===== www.deanforamerica.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 14:09:34 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 14:08:02 -0400 From: Tom To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: pressure gauge for tires Daniel H. Brown wrote: Isaac Blanck wrote: >>>Are the gauges for moto tires the same ones as for >>>cage tires, or do I need to buy one specific to motos? >>>thx jib >>> >>> >>> >What is the general concensus on when to go about changing summer (hot) air >out and putting cold (winter) air in? Do you need a specific guage for >each? > Nope, just make sure its synthetic. Tom de '98 VTR > > >-- >Dan Brown >brown@XXXXXX > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 14:22:40 2003 Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 14:22:32 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: pressure gauge for tires On Wed, 3 Sep 2003, Mark Kitchell wrote: > Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 11:08:57 -0700 (PDT) > From: Mark Kitchell > To: "Daniel H. Brown" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: pressure gauge for tires > > Hardly Abelson sells a nice kit for just that. For > only $299.99 they will send you both guages (you do > need two) and a bottle of 'official HD' air which is > pressurized with real Milwaukee air! Are these the same people who have the official kits for replacing the potato on Honda cruisers, when the old one stops making the right sound? -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 14:45:23 2003 Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 14:37:24 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: S.D. Public Doubts Fair Treatment For Janklow To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Mike b opined: >>I suspect this result is due to the well-known "survey >>bias"...i.e. what you get as answers depends on how you ask >>the questions [Dave] That's "push-polling", used to sway survey results in the questioner's desired direction and then influence public opinion with the results. Thus far, I believe Janklow has been treated fairly with the possible exception of being released on his own rep. That would not be done for some poor construction worker. His legal defense won't be cheap, but I expect that there will be a plea bargain... I wouldn't be surprised that it's not a felony plea bargain either. Hopefully I'm wrong about that. Bill H then commented: >You want to read grossly biased "survey" questions? Try the >NRA surveys. Methinks one of my friends put me on the NRA >list for a giggle, seeing as how I've never owned a gun. [Dave] 1st, you are likely referring to a survey or surveys from the NRA-ILA which is a child organization or affiliate of the NRA. The ILA does political activity ( or is supposed to ) for the NRA. Most assuredly, the ILA survey questions are "push poll" in nature. If however, you think NRA-ILA questions are biased, perhaps you should familiarize yourself with odious Violence Policy Center. Regardless of what position you have on the issue, VPC uses as the basis for it's position, essentially 4 pillars from the Supreme Court: Miller ( but only the part about the legality of requiring registration of shotguns less than 18" in barrel length, not the parts which directly address the right to posses them, Presser, Cruikshank, and Dred Scott. This past winter, Gunston Hall ( G. Mason's home ) sponsored "Liberty Lectures" which deals with Constitutional issues. I attended both "USC2A" events, one of which was attended by a VPC lobbyist. The other attendee was Robert Levy - not the Wash. post columnist, the Cato lawyer filing the lawsuit in DC. Levy was prepared with a box of books, case history and VPC correspondence, and showed without doubt that VPC not only sought the abolishment of the USC2A, as well as all State Constitutional Rights concerning arms, but the common-law right to self defense as well. To his credit, the VPC lobbyist was able to point out interesting history since the colonial days, but none of it really clarified anything. >Survey after survey rolls in with the most heavily >twisted querys I've ever read. Busting the survey intent >didn't work so I finnaly magic markered in HUGE letters - >Don't own a gun, never owned a gun, don't want to own gun! >Never received another survey. [Dave] I heard someone say to send back the postage paid envelopes with nothing in them because it costs them money for postage... I don't know how true it is, but keep it in mind for next time ;-) Hopefully, Janklow's status in the community won't affect his treatment throughout the rest of this process, the biker's family deserves at least a fair shake. Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 14:51:30 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 14:50:53 -0400 From: Skip CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: pressure gauge for tires Tom wrote: > > Daniel H. Brown wrote: > Isaac Blanck wrote: > > >>>Are the gauges for moto tires the same ones as for > >>>cage tires, or do I need to buy one specific to motos? > >>>thx jib > >>> > >>> > >>> > >What is the general concensus on when to go about changing summer (hot) air > >out and putting cold (winter) air in? Do you need a specific guage for > >each? > > > > Nope, just make sure its synthetic. That is pure insanity. everyone knowns that synthetic air has smaller molecules, and will leak out of normal tires; additionally, the centripetal force of synthetic air in rotating motorcycle tires prevents counter-steering. it is even worse if your bike is shaft driven. --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 14:58:24 2003 Subject: Odd e-mail patterns today... Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 14:58:13 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: I suspect it is the lingering effects of the virus war, plus the related fire-wall security, but I am getting replies to posts waaay before I see the original postings. Another surreal day in the office... ;-) Robert From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 15:22:02 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 15:16:36 -0400 To: "William J. Huson" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: S.D. Public Doubts Fair Treatment For Janklow Cc: Isaac Blanck , dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 01:47 PM 9/3/03 -0400, William J. Huson wrote: >You want to read grossly biased "survey" questions? Try the NRA surveys. They're no more biased than the anti-gun groups' surveys. Somehow I got on one of their mailing lists and got sent one. The questions I used as examples aren't far from the ones I've seen on the pro- and anti-gun rights groups' questionnaires. That's why I don't worry much about those surveys and stick to the ones that matter. The FBI Uniform Crime Reports for instance...and how they change when gun rights are infringed, and when they aren't. That's why I'm also an NRA member, as well as a GOA member, 2nd Amendment Foundation member and used to be a member of the Law Enforcement Aliance too. The anti-gun rights groups are one of the more dangerous things happening in politics these days....but if you want to discuss the matter, let's go off-list. This is wandering away from rampaging congresscritters murdering bikers, which is at least *close* to being on topic for this list. -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 15:22:05 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 15:20:22 -0400 To: "Daniel H. Brown" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: pressure gauge for tires At 02:01 PM 9/3/03 -0400, Daniel H. Brown wrote: >On Wed, 3 Sep 2003, William J. Huson wrote: >> next question > >What is the general concensus on when to go about changing summer (hot) air >out and putting cold (winter) air in? Do you need a specific guage for >each? You should have a separate gauge for each. The winter (cold) air is denser than summer (hot) air, and a summer gauge will give inaccurate readings if used in winter...usually lower. Just make sure that you flush the air from one season out of your tires completely before you refill them for the next. You don't want a mixture of airs in there. That will result in the pressure changing all the time, and make it really hard to maintain the proper pressure for safe riding. -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 15:35:04 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 15:34:55 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Aki Damme Subject: Re: pressure gauge for tires At 03:20 PM 9/3/2003, Mike Bartman wrote: >At 02:01 PM 9/3/03 -0400, Daniel H. Brown wrote: > >On Wed, 3 Sep 2003, William J. Huson wrote: > > >> next question > > > >What is the general concensus on when to go about changing summer > (hot) air > >out and putting cold (winter) air in? Do you need a specific > guage for > >each? > >You should have a separate gauge for each. The winter (cold) air is >denser >than summer (hot) air, and a summer gauge will give inaccurate >readings if >used in winter...usually lower. > >Just make sure that you flush the air from one season out of your >tires >completely before you refill them for the next. You don't want a >mixture >of airs in there. That will result in the pressure changing all the >time, >and make it really hard to maintain the proper pressure for safe >riding. > >-- Mike Bartman whoa there nelly. You can't just willy nilly flush that summer air into the atmosphere. You need to take the tire to a summer climate, like the carribbean before you can release it. Likewise, in the spring, you need to take both tires up into the Andes before you release the winter air. Jeezus..all we need is for the tree huggers to start blaming bikers for global warming. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 15:35:59 2003 Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 15:24:50 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: pressure gauge for tires On Wed, 3 Sep 2003, Skip wrote: > > >>>Are the gauges for moto tires the same ones as for > > >>>cage tires, or do I need to buy one specific to motos? > > >>>thx jib > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >What is the general concensus on when to go about changing summer (hot) air > > >out and putting cold (winter) air in? Do you need a specific guage for > > >each? > > > > > > > Nope, just make sure its synthetic. > > That is pure insanity. > > everyone knowns that synthetic air has smaller molecules, and will leak out of > normal tires; additionally, the centripetal force of synthetic air in rotating > motorcycle tires prevents counter-steering. it is even worse if your bike is > shaft driven. The shaft drive thing only applies to older model bikes which didn't have the synthetic compatable polyethylene anti-spin spline dampers installed. While we're having this technical discussion, has everyone checked their blinker fluid lately? I'm a bit behind on my regular maintenance, but have a new bottle on order from JC Whitless. They had a great deal going on the DOT69 stuff, which I tried out down to Colemans Powerspurts, before ordering mail order. -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 15:47:44 2003 Reply-To: From: "Jim McGonigle" To: Subject: Helmet X-Ray Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 15:47:15 -0400 Well I had a little incident at the California Superbike School @ VIR yesterday. Lowsided at a decent speed, tumbled a few times and hit the helmet once. Not bad, but some scratches although I'm not sure I could judge how hard it hit. How do I get the helmet xrayed to make sure the internal structure is still ok? Its an Arai. I checked the web site, but no info. Thanks, -Jim From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 15:52:24 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 15:50:50 -0400 From: Tom To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: pressure gauge for tires Skip wrote: >Tom wrote: > > >>Daniel H. Brown wrote: >>Isaac Blanck wrote: >> >> >> >>>>>Are the gauges for moto tires the same ones as for >>>>>cage tires, or do I need to buy one specific to motos? >>>>>thx jib >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>What is the general concensus on when to go about changing summer (hot) air >>>out and putting cold (winter) air in? Do you need a specific guage for >>>each? >>> >>> >>> >>Nope, just make sure its synthetic. >> >> > >That is pure insanity. > >everyone knowns that synthetic air has smaller molecules, and will leak out of >normal tires; additionally, the centripetal force of synthetic air in rotating >motorcycle tires prevents counter-steering. it is even worse if your bike is >shaft driven. > > Now wait a minute, this is only true with bias-ply. Tubes and radials work just fine. BUT you gotta use Mobile 1's stuff. I will agree tho... everything worse on a 'shaftie'. Tom de '98 VTR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 15:58:15 2003 Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 15:58:03 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Erick Singley Subject: Re: pressure gauge for tires >While we're having this technical discussion, has everyone checked their >blinker fluid lately? I'm a bit behind on my regular maintenance, but have >a new bottle on order from JC Whitless. They had a great deal going on the >DOT69 stuff, which I tried out down to Colemans Powerspurts, before >ordering mail order. > >-- >Dan Brown >brown@XXXXXX http://www.kalecoauto.com/fluids.htm check out the rest of their site for more deals! These folk sell synthetic blinker fluid, muffler bearing, etc also! http://www.mufflerbearings.com/products.htm Erick 74' CB-750 K4 OB real MC comment - OK. I put in my throttle cable and did all the adjustments. Oh! Is *that* what my throttle should feel like? Wow! Got rid of that pesky extra play and it's much nicer. Of course my *new* problem is bad warm starts. It needs to cool down before the engine will kick over again (the starter is working as it should, battery seems ok). This weekend, I'll replace the inline fuel filter (on a general 'it's old, and cheap to replace' principle), the points -- which involves looking at the timing, and then hope I don't need to replace the ignition coil. (hot coil, less efficient for starting?) In addition to my repair manual, I saw - http://wabisabi.swarthmore.edu:9673/library/Engine/Ignition From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 16:05:44 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 16:05:31 -0400 From: "Judy La Follette" To: , Subject: Re: Helmet X-Ray I just sent my Arai helmet back to Arai about a month ago. Call them first. (610) 837-4210. They will give you an "RGA" (I forget what the initial stand for) number to include with your return of the helmet. They will ask you what happen to the helmet, and then after it arrives they will check it out. They asked me to send it in the original box (along with the soft bag that it came in) and pack the box in another box with newspaper. The extra box is so that if they use a knife to open the box up, they do not cut into your helmet. I sent it to: Arai Helmet 5921 Colony Drive Bethlehem, PA 18017 RGA ###### I believe they got it on a Saturday, and it was returned to me on a Wednesday. Hope this helps! Judy >>> "Jim McGonigle" 09/03/03 03:47PM >>> Well I had a little incident at the California Superbike School @ VIR yesterday. Lowsided at a decent speed, tumbled a few times and hit the helmet once. Not bad, but some scratches although I'm not sure I could judge how hard it hit. How do I get the helmet xrayed to make sure the internal structure is still ok? Its an Arai. I checked the web site, but no info. Thanks, -Jim From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 16:08:08 2003 Subject: Re: Helmet X-Ray (arai info) From: Brian Roach To: jmcgonigle@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 03 Sep 2003 16:08:00 -0400 On Wed, 2003-09-03 at 15:47, Jim McGonigle wrote: > Well I had a little incident at the California Superbike School @ VIR > yesterday. Lowsided at a decent speed, tumbled a few times and hit the > helmet once. Not bad, but some scratches although I'm not sure I could > judge how hard it hit. How do I get the helmet xrayed to make sure the > internal structure is still ok? Its an Arai. I checked the web site, but > no info. Jim - I've sent out a couple Arai's for inspection after racing crashes. They are usually very quick on turn around - here's the info. You may want to call the number at the end and double-check everything as I haven't sent them one in a while. 1. Include $10 check (for return shipping). 2. Short letter describing the incident dynamics (fell of a bike going 60mph. Saw Elivs, Jesus, and the HVM, etc). In addition, state that you would like some kind of letter/statement that says that the helmet was inspected on and helmet is . Also state that you want the helmet back regardless (well, at least I do). 3. On the shipping box, write "URGENT/INSPECTION" 4. Ship to: ARAI Tech 5921 Colony Dr. Bethlehem, PA 18017 5. Questions? tel: (610) 837-4210 - Roach From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 16:43:38 2003 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: summit point sept 5-7 Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 16:31:49 -0400 Is anybody going to the CCS races this weekend? I was going to try to go Sunday. I haven't made it to the track yet. Any advice on what time to go, anything to take, to expect? Thanks, Rich '02 SVS _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8: Get 6 months for $9.95/month http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 17:33:37 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 17:23:42 -0400 To: , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Helmet X-Ray At 03:47 PM 9/3/03 -0400, Jim McGonigle wrote: >yesterday. Lowsided at a decent speed, tumbled a few times and hit the >helmet once. Not bad, but some scratches although I'm not sure I could >judge how hard it hit. How do I get the helmet xrayed to make sure the >internal structure is still ok? Its an Arai. I checked the web site, but >no info. I don't know that an Xray will show the status of Styrofoam... I'd assume that the helmet has done what you bought it for, and get another just like it, and put that one on the shelf to show that the things work. After all, what's your head worth to you? Why be cheap? -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 17:33:37 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 17:31:47 -0400 To: Erick Singley , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: pressure gauge for tires At 03:58 PM 9/3/03 -0400, Erick Singley wrote: >Of course my >*new* problem is bad warm starts. It needs to cool down before the >engine will kick over again (the starter is working as it should, >battery seems ok). Does your bike have compression releases? If so, make sure they are working properly. A hot engine can heat the air in the cylinders during turnover after the valves close and provide too much resistance for a weak starter to overcome...especially if the bike was designed with compression release and it isn't working. Might also have something to do with flooding the carb or intake system. My old Yamaha XT550 started easily when cold (manual compression release), but if I shut it down for more than a minute or two I had to wait at least half an hour to get it going again. Found that out at a gas station once... After wearing myself out trying to kickstart that thing when it was hot and had been off more than the magical couple of minutes I decided to try kicking it over with the petcock off. A few kicks later it fired right up! I turned on the gas and off I went. Worked every time too. Stop for more than a couple of minutes, you shut off the gas and leave it off until you kick it a couple of times, then on and it started and ran normally. >This weekend, I'll replace the inline fuel filter >(on a general 'it's old, and cheap to replace' principle), the points >-- which involves looking at the timing, and then hope I don't need >to replace the ignition coil. (hot coil, less efficient for >starting?) You said it wouldn't kick over...that's a starter problem or something electrical or maybe the compression thing...depending on the exact symptoms. If it turns over but won't "catch", that's different...and the things you mention are worth looking at. -- Mike B. (still not a mechanic and just guessing based on general, and possibly flawed, understanding) **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 17:39:18 2003 Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 17:53:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Helmet X-Ray On Wed, 3 Sep 2003, Mike Bartman wrote: > I don't know that an Xray will show the status of Styrofoam... > > I'd assume that the helmet has done what you bought it for, and get another > just like it, and put that one on the shelf to show that the things work. > > After all, what's your head worth to you? Why be cheap? > > -- Mike B. If you're going to respond to every single message, at least make it constructive, Mike. Arai and other manufacturers offer inspections of helmets that have been 'tested' in the real world ;-) Jim's get off didn't involve significant head impact, but he's wants to be safe and get the helmet examined by the manufacturer rather than just throwing away the money on a new one. Makes sense to me. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 18:02:47 2003 From: "Laura Roach" To: "rich hall" , Subject: Re: summit point sept 5-7 Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 18:03:06 -0400 > Is anybody going to the CCS races this weekend? I was going to try to go > Sunday. I haven't made it to the track yet. Any advice on what time to go, > anything to take, to expect? > Thanks, > Rich '02 SVS Rich: we'll be there this weekend. Sunday will definitely be a great day for a racing. Racing starts pretty early on Sunday because it's a full day of racing...qualifying is at 9, 11 is the stunt squids, after that more qualifying, and racing starts at Noon. If you meet us in our pit, we'll give you the low-down on the track, good places to watch, etc. We have a 31' ft. Mirada RV with 30-day tags on it. Stop by and say hi to Brian and I. Laura From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 18:08:03 2003 Subject: Re: Helmet X-Ray From: Brian Roach To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 03 Sep 2003 18:07:53 -0400 On Wed, 2003-09-03 at 17:23, Mike Bartman wrote: > After all, what's your head worth to you? Why be cheap? My head is worth sending the helmet back to the manufacturer, and having them either certify it as safe, or telling me I should buy a new one. My head is smart enough to do this, instead of throwing away money and a perfectly good helmet should the manufacturer tell me there was nothing wrong with it :) After you scratch up a couple $400 helmets while racing (ok, how about 5 in 5 years ... ), you learn to send them back and see what Arai/Shoei/etc has to say. Depending on the angle of impact, force, etc ... many times the helmet is perfectly fine and does not need to be replaced. - Roach From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 19:22:18 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 19:22:22 -0400 To: Brian Roach , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Helmet X-Ray At 06:07 PM 9/3/03 -0400, Brian Roach wrote: >On Wed, 2003-09-03 at 17:23, Mike Bartman wrote: > >> After all, what's your head worth to you? Why be cheap? > >My head is worth sending the helmet back to the manufacturer, and having >them either certify it as safe, or telling me I should buy a new one. If the manufacturer will do that for you free, or cheap, go for it. Do all of them do that, or just Arai? I'll be shopping for a helmet soon, and knowing that might be useful. Most manufacturers seem to suggest replacing helmets every few years anyway (I've heard times between 2 and 4 years) due to enbrittlement of plastics, accumulated crush damage from minor bumps, wear of straps and other parts, and general decay that could weaken it enough to matter. Helmets should be considered expendable (though not disposable) items...i.e. they aren't "buy once, wear forever" items. Depending on how old it is, it might be worth replacing anyway and skip the effort of returning it for inspection. Oh, and what I said about Xrays is probably valid...but if anyone knows how they verify internal structure that would be interesting to know. I suspect they use sound...something like a simple sonograms. If the sound transmission time and pattern isn't what it should be, the crush was too much and it's no good...but that's just a guess. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 19:32:59 2003 Subject: FYI - Current DC Road Test Report Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 19:32:46 -0400 From: "Morrison, Brian" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX X-WSS-ID: 1348A595333181-01-01 Took the DC motorcycle road test today. I scheduled the appointment around July 9 on the DC DMV web site - today was the first available date. For the record, there is no place to select MC/car - you just sign up for a test in general. Turns out, they DO administer motorcycle tests in serious rain. To get there, go out RI Ave past Home Depot and turn rt on Brentwood, or go out NY and exit on Brentwood on rt. It's at the corner of Brentwood and 13th NE. Went to Brentwood lot where they do the tests for apointment at 0830. Did not have to wait more than 5 minutes for the test. All I did was two figure eights, and two "imaginary stop sign" stops, about 50 yards away - still in first gear. No emergency stops or swerves or anything like that. You have to turn around for the second stop, but I don't think that the turning around is part of the test. The figure eights can be as long as you want, and the width of 13th st near where it intersects with Brentwood - pretty wide. There was only one car parked on 13th; not sure if that is always the case. Conceivably there are other tests, but I don't think so; I suspect it depends in part on the mood of the examiner. Whole thing took about 2 minutes, then 10 minutes inside to get the license. They were about as sunny as I have come to expect from DC DMV employees. They wanted to see my inspection sticker, registration and POI (to which the lady said "This doesn't identify your bike. I said "Yes it does." I think maybe she just thought there could not possibly be a bike called a 1975 R75/6. She's got a point, really). They also wanted to see my learner's permit AND my car license. Not sure what would have happened if I didn't have a car license. Then you get one license with the MC endorsement. All told, then, to get a license and registered bike in DC involves four trips - 1. go to dmv for permit and temp tags; 2. go get inspected; 3. go get hard tags; 4. go take test and get license. All told, probably about 5 hours of lifetime I'll never ever get back, not counting my one false start where I lacked my title when I was getting the hard tags. Brian ------------------------------------------------------------ NOTICE: This message is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by reply or by telephone (call us collect at (202) 434-5000) and immediately delete this message and all its attachments. ============================================================ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 20:38:26 2003 Subject: Re: Helmet X-Ray From: Brian Roach To: Mike Bartman Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 03 Sep 2003 20:38:17 -0400 On Wed, 2003-09-03 at 19:22, Mike Bartman wrote: > If the manufacturer will do that for you free, or cheap, go for it. Do all > of them do that, or just Arai? I'll be shopping for a helmet soon, and > knowing that might be useful. Arai and Shoei both offer free post-crash inspection and re-certification. They charge a minimal fee ($10 for Arai, not sure for Shoei but I know it isn't much) for shipping and handling. It's a good deal. As a racer, they (Arai) provided me with a certificate to take to tech inspection should there be any questions (the paint on the helmet was scraped, but the shell wasn't damaged). I'm not sure as to what equipment they use, but I don't think they'd send you a helmet back with a bill of good health without having a very accurate way to test it, especially here in the US where liability lawsuits are becoming a hobby for some people. - Roach From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Sep 3 23:29:17 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 23:29:11 -0400 To: Brian Roach From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Helmet X-Ray Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 08:38 PM 9/3/03 -0400, Brian Roach wrote: >On Wed, 2003-09-03 at 19:22, Mike Bartman wrote: > >> If the manufacturer will do that for you free, or cheap, go for it. Do all >> of them do that, or just Arai? I'll be shopping for a helmet soon, and >> knowing that might be useful. > >Arai and Shoei both offer free post-crash inspection and >re-certification. They charge a minimal fee ($10 for Arai, not sure for >Shoei but I know it isn't much) for shipping and handling. > >It's a good deal. I agree, it's a great deal. Shoei supposedly just came out with a helmet that might fit me...it's not a "round head" one like most of their line, it's a bit more oval. I don't know about Arai, but I'll find out. Companies that provide good service like that deserve more customers! :^) >I'm not sure as to what equipment they use, but I don't think they'd >send you a helmet back with a bill of good health without having a very >accurate way to test it, especially here in the US where liability >lawsuits are becoming a hobby for some people. Yep, if they are willing to put it in writing, they are sure. Just curious about the technology. Sound probes are most likely as they don't damage anything and are relatively simple to automate in a production environment like that. Probably use the same tools they use for QA on the production line. I suspect they get something out of the deal too...they get to see what happens to their gear in real-world crashes. Maybe the helmets that fail are looked over by someone from engineering to see if they can learn anything for future designs...or at least logged as to what part failed so they know where they need to work on it for the future. Data like that should be valuable to them. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 07:21:22 2003 Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 07:20:06 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Mike Bartman CC: Brian Roach , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Helmet X-Ray Mike Bartman wrote: > I agree, it's a great deal. Shoei supposedly just came out with a helmet > that might fit me...it's not a "round head" one like most of their line, > it's a bit more oval. I don't know about Arai, but I'll find out. > Companies that provide good service like that deserve more customers! :^) > > >I'm not sure as to what equipment they use, but I don't think they'd > >send you a helmet back with a bill of good health without having a very > >accurate way to test it, especially here in the US where liability > >lawsuits are becoming a hobby for some people. > > Yep, if they are willing to put it in writing, they are sure. Just curious > about the technology. Sound probes are most likely as they don't damage > anything and are relatively simple to automate in a production environment > like that. Probably use the same tools they use for QA on the production > line. > > I suspect they get something out of the deal too...they get to see what > happens to their gear in real-world crashes. Maybe the helmets that fail > are looked over by someone from engineering to see if they can learn > anything for future designs...or at least logged as to what part failed so > they know where they need to work on it for the future. Data like that > should be valuable to them. > > -- Mike B. I've been told that helmet companies offer the service for exactly that reason, to examine damage with a goal of improving the product. X-ray is the basic tool to scopes out the shell for integrity. The foam shock liner can be examined by hand/eye, any visible crushing would indicate replacement. I have a 3/4 Shoei on the shelf, no need to send that one back. I was launched over a Crown Vic geekermobile, the ol' failure to yield left turn in front of me. When I hit the pavement, headfirst, I heard the fiberglass/kevler shell crunching. I saved it as a reminder - search/evaluate/execute, and always wear a helmet. Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 07:28:59 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 07:28:52 EDT Subject: Re: Cage shit: was (Taking the edge off ) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 9/3/2003 10:36:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time, brown@XXXXXX writes: > there > was an engine light on. FYI The engine light in cars is set by the _Feds_ to come on automatically at 80,000mi. 100,000mi. and as I recall every 20,000mi. after that. There is _nothing_ wrong with your car. The Bureaucraps in the district want you to panic and rush to your dealer where they are supposed to change your PCV valve and a couple of other _easy_ _cheap_ EPA type things. Then they flip a _hidden_ switch to turn the light off and reset it for the next time. No paranoia here, the switch in my wifes car is behind the drivers side speaker grill just above the speaker. Flip it from one position to the other _Magic!_ the light goes out (Shop manuals are a wonderful thing.) I would love to know how much dealers rip people off for to do this switch flip. "Oh you need a new engine, and a new framis, and flinderflocker, that will be a jillion dollars." Do not get me wrong the engine check light does have legitimate reasons to come on but when it comes on at even 20,000mi. intervals _there_is_nothing_ wrong_with_your_car_. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 07:34:28 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 07:34:15 EDT Subject: Re: Gear Reports. To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 9/3/2003 11:41:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time, omni@XXXXXX writes: > Why would *anyone* do that???? Throw a leg over it or keep walking beside > it (but don't tilt it too far towards you either! :^) > Lots of bikes to move, a long distance to walk back and forth in the heat of Las Vegas. Did this _hundreds_ of times with only one mishap, but that was a doozy. We all did it, and I continued to do it, it was/is no big deal (and did no damage.) John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 07:34:44 2003 Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 07:49:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Cage shit: was (Taking the edge off ) On Thu, 4 Sep 2003 PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > FYI The engine light in cars is set by the _Feds_ to come on automatically at > 80,000mi. 100,000mi. and as I recall every 20,000mi. after that. What kind of car, John? I do a *lot* of work on cars, including programming ECMs and a have never seen or heard of such a thing. There is nothing like this on any of my cars or any of the cars that I've programmed/repaired. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 07:38:38 2003 Reply-To: From: "Jim McGonigle" To: Subject: RE: Helmet X-Ray (arai info) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 07:38:37 -0400 Thanks Judy and Brian. I'll be calling them today. > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Roach [mailto:roach@XXXXXX] > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 4:08 PM > To: jmcgonigle@XXXXXX > Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Helmet X-Ray (arai info) > > > On Wed, 2003-09-03 at 15:47, Jim McGonigle wrote: > > Well I had a little incident at the California Superbike > School @ VIR > > yesterday. Lowsided at a decent speed, tumbled a few times > and hit the > > helmet once. Not bad, but some scratches although I'm not > sure I could > > judge how hard it hit. How do I get the helmet xrayed to > make sure the > > internal structure is still ok? Its an Arai. I checked the > web site, but > > no info. > > Jim - > > I've sent out a couple Arai's for inspection after racing > crashes. They > are usually very quick on turn around - here's the info. You > may want to > call the number at the end and double-check everything as I > haven't sent > them one in a while. > > 1. Include $10 check (for return shipping). > > 2. Short letter describing the incident dynamics (fell of a bike going > 60mph. Saw Elivs, Jesus, and the HVM, etc). In addition, > state that you > would like some kind of letter/statement that says that the helmet was > inspected on and helmet is . Also state > that you want > the helmet back regardless (well, at least I do). > > 3. On the shipping box, write "URGENT/INSPECTION" > > 4. Ship to: > > ARAI Tech > 5921 Colony Dr. > Bethlehem, PA 18017 > > 5. Questions? tel: (610) 837-4210 > > - Roach > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 07:50:23 2003 Subject: Re: Cage shit: was (Taking the edge off ) From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 04 Sep 2003 07:46:11 -0400 On Thu, 2003-09-04 at 07:49, Wayne Edelen wrote: > On Thu, 4 Sep 2003 PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > > > FYI The engine light in cars is set by the _Feds_ to come on automatically at > > 80,000mi. 100,000mi. and as I recall every 20,000mi. after that. > > What kind of car, John? I do a *lot* of work on cars, including > programming ECMs and a have never seen or heard of such a thing. There is > nothing like this on any of my cars or any of the cars that I've > programmed/repaired. > It did it on my 87 300ZX at (maybe 80,000, I don't remember), 100,000 and 120,000 and the Ford Fairmont my ex-wife had. I don't know about the hidden switch though. > -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 07:56:11 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 07:56:01 EDT Subject: Re: Cage shit: was (Taking the edge off ) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 9/4/2003 7:35:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time, wayne@XXXXXX writes: > I do a *lot* of work on cars, including > programming ECMs and a have never seen or heard of such a thing. My wifes car is a Geo, but I _have_ seen it many times myself on others. People know I am a mechanic and often ask about why the light is on, I just ask them "did it come on at 80,000mi.?" the answer is usualy "yes." Hell just ride down the road and look into cars, sometimes I think half of them have that damn light on. As always you do not have to take my word for it, check the shop manual, you will find it. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 08:08:06 2003 Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 08:06:53 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Cage shit: was (Taking the edge off ) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > In a message dated 9/3/2003 10:36:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > brown@XXXXXX writes: > > > there > > was an engine light on. > > FYI The engine light in cars is set by the _Feds_ to come on automatically at > 80,000mi. 100,000mi. and as I recall every 20,000mi. after that. > There is _nothing_ wrong with your car. The Bureaucraps in the district want > you to panic and rush to your dealer where they are supposed to change your > PCV valve and a couple of other _easy_ _cheap_ EPA type things. Then they flip > a _hidden_ switch to turn the light off and reset it for the next time. No > paranoia here, the switch in my wifes car is behind the drivers side speaker > grill just above the speaker. Flip it from one position to the other _Magic!_ the > light goes out (Shop manuals are a wonderful thing.) I would love to know how > much dealers rip people off for to do this switch flip. "Oh you need a new > engine, and a new framis, and flinderflocker, that will be a jillion dollars." > Do not get me wrong the engine check light does have legitimate reasons to > come on but when it comes on at even 20,000mi. intervals _there_is_nothing_ > wrong_with_your_car_. > > John. > PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Yes, both my anchient trucks have displayed the check engine light. Few years back my shotgun passenger, a persnickity woman, noticed the light when I wuz pulling out on the highway. "OHMIGOD," she screechs. "The check engine light is on!" To which I replied, "No prob. I opened the hood the other day and checked -- the engine is still there." She gives me an incredulous expression, so I add, "And it runs fine too." Then I mash the gas and the vans BFE V-8 thunders to WOT and busts the rear tires loose *Scree-eee-eee-eee* Methinks the woman is still in therupy :-) Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 08:23:14 2003 Subject: Cage idiocy - lights Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 08:23:06 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "William J. Huson" , Cc: To add to the thread: I have a new Dodge Dakota, and so far this year I have had it into the shop about eight times for "things related to idiot light coming on." Split vacuum hose, vacuum canister sensor, and some other stuff. Once I took it in because I was hearing an odd noise, that got my rear diff replaced. Anyway, since I was mostly doing this to annoy the service people (if there is anything wrong with it, I want to get it recorded before the warranty runs out, so I make up symptoms whenever I take it in...) I always call to make an appointment. The last time, the young lady on the other end of the line could not get me an appointment any earlier than two weeks later. I said (panicked owner voice); "But my check engine light is on!" She replies; "Well, is it blinking yet? Unless it's blinking on and off, it's safe to continue driving it..." Damn. So now there are idiot lights, and subtleties of idiot light interpretation... LOL - Robert From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 08:32:41 2003 Subject: Re: Cage idiocy - lights From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 04 Sep 2003 08:28:30 -0400 On Thu, 2003-09-04 at 08:23, Verde, Robert wrote: > To add to the thread: I have a new Dodge Dakota, and so far this year I have had it into the shop about eight times for "things related to idiot light coming on." Split vacuum hose, vacuum canister sensor, and some other stuff. Once I took it in because I was hearing an odd noise, that got my rear diff replaced. > > Anyway, since I was mostly doing this to annoy the service people (if there is anything wrong with it, I want to get it recorded before the warranty runs out, so I make up symptoms whenever I take it in...) I always call to make an appointment. The last time, the young lady on the other end of the line could not get me an appointment any earlier than two weeks later. > > I said (panicked owner voice); "But my check engine light is on!" She replies; "Well, is it blinking yet? Unless it's blinking on and off, it's safe to continue driving it..." > > Damn. So now there are idiot lights, and subtleties of idiot light interpretation... LOL > > - Robert > That's the same reason I take the bike in for scheduled maintenance (even if it costs $300!). I took it in for the 10k check (and because of an oil leak in the front rocker cover) in December and during QA they found a warranty problem (wrong size spacer in the timing gear which forced a replacement of the timing chain, gear and spacer) which took a couple of weeks to get repaired. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 08:40:38 2003 From: To: Subject: Re: Cage idiocy - lights Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 8:40:31 -0400 Yeesh... I feel for you. I just got rid of my 99 Durango. I'll never own another Chrysler product again. You think you've got problems now, (and its new!), wait until the warranty runs out and you've got 60k miles on the odo. You ain't seen nothing yet. -aki > > From: "Verde, Robert" > Date: 2003/09/04 Thu AM 08:23:06 EDT > To: "William J. Huson" , > CC: > Subject: Cage idiocy - lights > > To add to the thread: I have a new Dodge Dakota, and so far this year I have had it into the shop about eight times for "things related to idiot light coming on." Split vacuum hose, vacuum canister sensor, and some other stuff. Once I took it in because I was hearing an odd noise, that got my rear diff replaced. > > Anyway, since I was mostly doing this to annoy the service people (if there is anything wrong with it, I want to get it recorded before the warranty runs out, so I make up symptoms whenever I take it in...) I always call to make an appointment. The last time, the young lady on the other end of the line could not get me an appointment any earlier than two weeks later. > > I said (panicked owner voice); "But my check engine light is on!" She replies; "Well, is it blinking yet? Unless it's blinking on and off, it's safe to continue driving it..." > > Damn. So now there are idiot lights, and subtleties of idiot light interpretation... LOL > > - Robert > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 08:50:20 2003 Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 08:50:16 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Cage shit: was (Taking the edge off ) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > >> I do a *lot* of work on cars, including >> programming ECMs and a have never seen or heard of such a thing. [Dave] Ditto. Although, I actively avoid tinkering with the rich programming on the lightning pcm, there are plenty of hacking resources available. > >My wifes car is a Geo, but I _have_ seen it many times >myself on others. [Dave] There's no code I'm aware of in any currently manufactured pcm which sets the MIL (malfunction indicator light) at *any* mileage interval. They will for any checked sensor reading out of range, and on the current models, they're quite sophisticated. Some of the codes can be gotten rid of ( soft codes ) by disconnecting the battery for an hour or so. More serious ones cannot. I'd guesstimate that 95% of the MIL events are completely emissions related and have zero to do with the actual engine performance. Maybe 5 percent could indicate a potential engine issue because the sensor is right and your engine is say... way lean at the O2 sensor. >People know I am a mechanic and often ask about why the >light is on, I just ask them "did it come on at 80,000mi.?" >the answer is usualy "yes." [Dave] There's a published list of non proprietary OBD II codes online, there are none for "mileage". >Hell just ride down the road and look into cars, sometimes I >think half of them have that damn light on. >As always you do not have to take my word for it, check the >shop manual, you will find it. [Dave] I don't know about Virginia, but in MD, they hook an OBD II scanner to the OBD II cars - any codes = automatic failure, so the strategy of leaving the light on won't usually be a good one. Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 08:53:50 2003 Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 05:53:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Sean Steele Subject: Re: FYI - Current DC Road Test Report To: "Morrison, Brian" Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Thanks for the info. That's a great description of the process. I'm about to take the road test this later in the month -- difference for me is I don't have my own bike, so I hope to borrow one. Do I have to prove to the DMV that the bike I'm testing on is my own bike? Also, did you have insurance on your bike before you got soft tags? -Sean --- "Morrison, Brian" wrote: > Took the DC motorcycle road test today. > > I scheduled the appointment around July 9 on the DC > DMV web site - today > was the first available date. For the record, there > is no place to > select MC/car - you just sign up for a test in > general. Turns out, they > DO administer motorcycle tests in serious rain. > > To get there, go out RI Ave past Home Depot and turn > rt on Brentwood, or > go out NY and exit on Brentwood on rt. It's at the > corner of Brentwood > and 13th NE. > > Went to Brentwood lot where they do the tests for > apointment at 0830. > Did not have to wait more than 5 minutes for the > test. > > All I did was two figure eights, and two "imaginary > stop sign" stops, > about 50 yards away - still in first gear. No > emergency stops or > swerves or anything like that. You have to turn > around for the second > stop, but I don't think that the turning around is > part of the test. > > The figure eights can be as long as you want, and > the width of 13th st > near where it intersects with Brentwood - pretty > wide. There was only > one car parked on 13th; not sure if that is always > the case. Conceivably > there are other tests, but I don't think so; I > suspect it depends in > part on the mood of the examiner. > > Whole thing took about 2 minutes, then 10 minutes > inside to get the > license. They were about as sunny as I have come > to expect from DC DMV > employees. > > They wanted to see my inspection sticker, > registration and POI (to which > the lady said "This doesn't identify your bike. I > said "Yes it does." > I think maybe she just thought there could not > possibly be a bike called > a 1975 R75/6. She's got a point, really). They > also wanted to see my > learner's permit AND my car license. Not sure what > would have happened > if I didn't have a car license. Then you get one > license with the MC > endorsement. > > All told, then, to get a license and registered bike > in DC involves four > trips - 1. go to dmv for permit and temp tags; 2. go > get inspected; 3. > go get hard tags; 4. go take test and get license. > All told, probably > about 5 hours of lifetime I'll never ever get back, > not counting my one > false start where I lacked my title when I was > getting the hard tags. > > Brian __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 09:02:02 2003 Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 06:01:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Isaac Blanck Subject: Re: FYI - Current DC Road Test Report To: "Morrison, Brian" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Well, they've made the test tougher since I took it 2 years ago. I only had to do 1 figure 8. Nothing else. Guess they're moving in the right direction ... jib --- "Morrison, Brian" wrote: > Took the DC motorcycle road test today. > > I scheduled the appointment around July 9 on the DC > DMV web site - today > was the first available date. For the record, there > is no place to > select MC/car - you just sign up for a test in > general. Turns out, they > DO administer motorcycle tests in serious rain. > > To get there, go out RI Ave past Home Depot and turn > rt on Brentwood, or > go out NY and exit on Brentwood on rt. It's at the > corner of Brentwood > and 13th NE. > > Went to Brentwood lot where they do the tests for > apointment at 0830. > Did not have to wait more than 5 minutes for the > test. > > All I did was two figure eights, and two "imaginary > stop sign" stops, > about 50 yards away - still in first gear. No > emergency stops or > swerves or anything like that. You have to turn > around for the second > stop, but I don't think that the turning around is > part of the test. > > The figure eights can be as long as you want, and > the width of 13th st > near where it intersects with Brentwood - pretty > wide. There was only > one car parked on 13th; not sure if that is always > the case. Conceivably > there are other tests, but I don't think so; I > suspect it depends in > part on the mood of the examiner. > > Whole thing took about 2 minutes, then 10 minutes > inside to get the > license. They were about as sunny as I have come > to expect from DC DMV > employees. > > They wanted to see my inspection sticker, > registration and POI (to which > the lady said "This doesn't identify your bike. I > said "Yes it does." > I think maybe she just thought there could not > possibly be a bike called > a 1975 R75/6. She's got a point, really). They > also wanted to see my > learner's permit AND my car license. Not sure what > would have happened > if I didn't have a car license. Then you get one > license with the MC > endorsement. > > All told, then, to get a license and registered bike > in DC involves four > trips - 1. go to dmv for permit and temp tags; 2. go > get inspected; 3. > go get hard tags; 4. go take test and get license. > All told, probably > about 5 hours of lifetime I'll never ever get back, > not counting my one > false start where I lacked my title when I was > getting the hard tags. > > Brian > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > NOTICE: > > This message is intended for the use of the > individual or entity to which it is addressed and > may contain information that is privileged, > confidential and exempt from disclosure under > applicable law. If the reader of this message is not > the intended recipient or the employee or agent > responsible for delivering this message to the > intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any > dissemination, distribution or copying of this > communication is strictly prohibited. If you have > received this communication in error, please notify > us immediately by reply or by telephone (call us > collect at (202) 434-5000) and immediately delete > this message and all its attachments. > > ============================================================ > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Sep 4 09:32:20 2003 Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 09:32:17 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: good news for off roaders To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >From today's NoVA Journal... Off-road riding facility allowed By ZACK PHILLIPS Journal staff writer After nearly five years, a group of Prince William off- road riding enthusiasts accomplished a first this week: They emerged from a Prince William Board of County Supervisors meeting with the result they wanted. The board on Tuesday unanimously approved a special-use permit allowing a facility for riding off-road motorcycles and all-terrain vehicles on an 108-acre plot of rural land in Nokesville. The action ended a controversy that dates back to 1998, when residents began complaining about riders traversing private property in Triangle. Since then, a group now known as the Family Off-Road Riders of Prince William County has sought a central location for recreational riding. Meanwhile, the board blocked off-road riding at two different sites. On Tuesday, however, supervisors approved the Nokesville site - located between Route 28 and the Norfolk Southern Railroad tracks, along the Fauquier County border - over the strong objections of a group of local residents. The board unanimously agreed that the group followed the correct procedures by incorporating, obtaining insurance, and securing a privately owned site for riding. ``This is exactly what we instructed them to do," said Supervisor Edgar S. Wilbourn, R-Gainesville. ``It serves a purpose for the county and other communities." Though the public hearing was dominated by riding enthusiasts, testifying to the widespread appeal of ATVs and the absence of riding facilities near Prince William County, a number of passionate Nokesville denizens appeared to oppose the permit. Their objections included concerns about pollution, excessive noise and increased traffic. ``My children travel in school buses past this property," said Larry Petropolis. He said a large number of people entering or leaving the site where the entrance is currently proposed will make an already dangerous curve in Route 28 deadly. ``You're only going to kill my family and children. I will hold you personally responsible." The site is 900 feet from the closest residential area, county officials said. Under the permit, which expires in 2008, no more than 60 riders can use the site at one time, all vehicles must be equipped with noise-reduction mufflers and trails crossing drainage ways must have culvert pipes. At the organization's request, supervisors on Tuesday agreed to soften some of the provisions the Prince William Planning Commission attached to the application last month. The board agreed to allow the riders to use the facility on Sundays - along with Mondays, Wednesdays, Fridays and Saturdays, which the Planning Commission had recommended - and extended the permissible close time from 4 p.m. to 6 p.m. The group, which now has about 175 members, formed after the board passed a resolution in 1998 barring off-road vehicles from private or government property without the written permission of the owner. The board subsequently convened a task force to determine if an Independent Hill landfill the group had identified was a suitable site for organized riding. After a year of meetings, the task force could not agree on a recommendation, although it did conclude that Prince William needed an ATV park. Between 4,200 and 5,000 Prince William County residents own such vehicles, according to that April 2000 report. Supervisors later balked at supporting the landfill as an ATV park, and earlier this year went to court to stop a Fairfax County man believed to have been constructing a similar facility at a property near the Manassas National Battlefield Park. Family Off-Road Riders of Prince William County has been using the Nokesville site since 2000, at the invitation of a Manassas businessman who owns the parcels, group president Robert Hetzel said. He declined to name the businessman. The listed owner is Manassas-based Homeland Limited Partnership and Goshen Properties of Virginia Beach, according to the Prince William County planning office. Opponents on Tuesday criticized the group for using the facility without the special-use permit. Republican Supervisor L. Ben Thompson, whose Brentsville District encompasses the site, accepted blame, saying that he told the group it was allowed to use the site as long as members were pursuing a special-use permit. ``We're trying to do the right thing and we'd like to reach out to [opponents] and try to prove to them that we