From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Nov 1 21:08:57 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id VAA00694; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 21:08:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id VAA15424; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 21:06:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from imisys.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id VAA00451; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 21:06:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from [166.55.19.162] by imisys.com (SMTPD32-3.00) id A4D22F1F0124; Sat Nov 01 20:18:10 1997 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 18:04:02 -0500 Message-ID: <01BCE6F0.891DC3A0.jywon@imisys.com> From: "Justin Y. Won" Reply-To: "jywon@XXXXXX" To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" Subject: RE: lurkers, revealed Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 18:04:01 -0500 Organization: IMI Systems, Inc. X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (lurk off) Well, can you think of anything better to draw me out of lurk mode? I'm actually a newbie to this list, thanx to Jeannette. And I've been travelling the past several days, so I haven't had the loaf time that I normally do (I hope my boss isn't a lurker here). Seems like things are slowing down for the winter anyway. Besides, I don't even have a ride currently. Tragic story, that I might share with the list some day. Or you can get Jeannette's interpretation. I promise to be more interactive when I get back into town. But I can't deny that some subjects are more compelling than others, right J? ;-) (lurk on) On Friday, October 31, 1997 18:50 PM, kevin thomas [SMTP:klthomas@XXXXXX] wrote: > Hey, y'all-- > > It's sad when it takes a discussion of Jeannette's undergarments (or lack > thereof =:-D ) to bring out the lurkers on our _motorcycle_ list! > > (This means you, Justin. And the rest of you know who you are.) > > ;-) > > Kevin > > He who says it cannot be done should not interrupt him who is doing it. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 2 09:17:22 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA04179; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 09:17:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA18380; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 09:17:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo09.mx.aol.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA05452; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 09:17:07 -0500 (EST) From: Barbelle14 Message-ID: <92ff4920.345c8b13@aol.com> Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 09:16:32 EST To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: road assist program (and AZ update) Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part0_878480145_boundary" Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv10) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_878480145_boundary Content-ID: <0_878480145@XXXXXX> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Hey guys & gals! Saw this and thought you might be interested. AZ is *wonderful* - we will be riding year round comfortably and there is *no* rain! BTW - my knees have healed stronger than ever - I am very pleased with the prolotherapy. :-) Happy riding!! Sharon (& Jon) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 14:58:50 -0500 From: "Jeffrey Harth" Subject: ROAD ASSIST RIDER PROGRAM Hi there, Please pardon the bandwidth. I apologize if you get this more than once since I am cross-posting it. I am not a subscriber but I thought that you may have an interest in an international organization of motorcyclists that we started called the ROAD ASSIST RIDER PROGRAM. The participants now include people from across the US, UK, Germany, and Australia. This is a program of volunteer motorcyclists who assist other motorists on our highways who are stranded or are in some way needing help. The assistance comes during your regular riding activities. There is no "patrolling" and there is no "requirement" to stop. The genesis of this is our commitment to create a new public perception of motorcyclists. Here's the program outline as best described in a scenario; This is an extreme case: A guy in a car breaks down on the highway, at night, in an area he is not familiar with, without a cell-phone or can't get a cell-phone signal. What does he do? Along you come on your motorcycle. You pull off the road in front of him so he can get a good look at you. You are wearing your leathers or whatever protective gear you have but you are also wearing a high-visibility yellow vest with the words ROAD ASSIST RIDER in big black letters on the back, easily visible and readable from a distance. You get off the bike, put your helmet on the ground and walk towards the disabled vehicle. You hold your hands out. In one hand you have a cell-phone. In the other you are holding your ROAD ASSIST photo ID. Now, at this point he has no idea who you are or what you want. You walk to the front of the car and ask if he needs assistance. We may use some kind of cloth sign if proximity to the vehicle will cause alarm to the motorist. You say that you can do three things (you choose what you do- these are the options.). You can light and drop a flare behind his vehicle on the road so other motorists can see his car. You can make a call for him to get assistance and can leave a message for those who might be worried that he is late. And, you are willing to stay at your bike until help comes that he is comfortable with. At this point you pull out your ROAD ASSIST RIDER business card and hand it to him which says that you are a volunteer motorcyclist of the ROAD ASSIST RIDER PROGRAM and explains the organization's commitment to assist. Then, in bold print on the bottom it states that you will not ask the occupant to leave their vehicle (there will be some disclaimer that they need to judge the safety of staying in the car, etc.). You walk back and light the flare and drop it. He gives you the number to call someone he knows and you place the call. You then pull out your phone reference card for the local police, state police, AAA, tow service, etc. You make a call to the police saying who you are and what the situation is. You then go forward and wait at your bike. A few minutes later the police show up. You walk over, ID yourself as the one who placed the call and why you are there, give the officer your ROAD ASSIST RIDER PROGRAM business card, and say good-bye to the driver. You get back on your bike and leave. Now two people, one of them being a police officer, have a new perspective of at least one motorcyclist. The organization is 100% voluntary. This means that the specific actions you take to help someone is completely voluntary. If you don't want to or can't remain with the person, then you leave. If you don't want to have something on you that identifies you with the program then you shouldn't wear the vest. We are in the process of working out the details. This is getting very big very fast. We expect to have 2000 riders in the program by year-end. If you are interested in this please contact me direct with your name, location, and phone number. You may also subscribe to the Road Assist Rider List by sending the message "subscribe road-assist" (w/o parentheses) to listserv@XXXXXX Thanks and cheers. Jeff Harth Philly 1986 BMW K100RS ROAD ASSIST RIDER >> --part0_878480145_boundary Content-ID: <0_878480145@XXXXXX> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from mrin75.mail.aol.com (mrin75.mail.aol.com [152.163.116.113]) by air14.mail.aol.com (v36.0) with SMTP; Sat, 01 Nov 1997 21:32:48 1900 Received: from magpie.com (magpie.com [206.153.126.89]) by mrin75.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with SMTP id VAA15920 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 21:31:24 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 15108 invoked by uid 506); 2 Nov 1997 03:30:11 -0000 Date: 2 Nov 1997 03:30:05 -0000 Message-ID: <19971102033005.15068.qmail@magpie.com> From: wist-digest-owner@XXXXXX (WIST Digest) To: wist-digest@XXXXXX Subject: WIST Digest V1997 #122 Reply-To: wist@XXXXXX Sender: wist-digest-owner@XXXXXX Errors-To: wist-digest-owner@XXXXXX Precedence: bulk Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit WIST Digest Saturday, November 1 1997 Volume 1997 : Number 122 T H E W I S T D I G E S T (Women In Sport-Touring) To UNSUBSCRIBE from The WIST Digest, see the end of this digest In this issue: ROAD ASSIST RIDER PROGRAM (no WIST) BMW swap meet, coolest leathers hot / cold weather riding Riding Suits Re: BMW swap meet, coolest leathers Surviving winter touring ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 14:58:50 -0500 From: "Jeffrey Harth" Subject: ROAD ASSIST RIDER PROGRAM (no WIST) Hi there, Please pardon the bandwidth. I apologize if you get this more than once since I am cross-posting it. I am not a subscriber but I thought that you may have an interest in an international organization of motorcyclists that we started called the ROAD ASSIST RIDER PROGRAM. The participants now include people from across the US, UK, Germany, and Australia. This is a program of volunteer motorcyclists who assist other motorists on our highways who are stranded or are in some way needing help. The assistance comes during your regular riding activities. There is no "patrolling" and there is no "requirement" to stop. The genesis of this is our commitment to create a new public perception of motorcyclists. Here's the program outline as best described in a scenario; This is an extreme case: A guy in a car breaks down on the highway, at night, in an area he is not familiar with, without a cell-phone or can't get a cell-phone signal. What does he do? Along you come on your motorcycle. You pull off the road in front of him so he can get a good look at you. You are wearing your leathers or whatever protective gear you have but you are also wearing a high-visibility yellow vest with the words ROAD ASSIST RIDER in big black letters on the back, easily visible and readable from a distance. You get off the bike, put your helmet on the ground and walk towards the disabled vehicle. You hold your hands out. In one hand you have a cell-phone. In the other you are holding your ROAD ASSIST photo ID. Now, at this point he has no idea who you are or what you want. You walk to the front of the car and ask if he needs assistance. We may use some kind of cloth sign if proximity to the vehicle will cause alarm to the motorist. You say that you can do three things (you choose what you do- these are the options.). You can light and drop a flare behind his vehicle on the road so other motorists can see his car. You can make a call for him to get assistance and can leave a message for those who might be worried that he is late. And, you are willing to stay at your bike until help comes that he is comfortable with. At this point you pull out your ROAD ASSIST RIDER business card and hand it to him which says that you are a volunteer motorcyclist of the ROAD ASSIST RIDER PROGRAM and explains the organization's commitment to assist. Then, in bold print on the bottom it states that you will not ask the occupant to leave their vehicle (there will be some disclaimer that they need to judge the safety of staying in the car, etc.). You walk back and light the flare and drop it. He gives you the number to call someone he knows and you place the call. You then pull out your phone reference card for the local police, state police, AAA, tow service, etc. You make a call to the police saying who you are and what the situation is. You then go forward and wait at your bike. A few minutes later the police show up. You walk over, ID yourself as the one who placed the call and why you are there, give the officer your ROAD ASSIST RIDER PROGRAM business card, and say good-bye to the driver. You get back on your bike and leave. Now two people, one of them being a police officer, have a new perspective of at least one motorcyclist. The organization is 100% voluntary. This means that the specific actions you take to help someone is completely voluntary. If you don't want to or can't remain with the person, then you leave. If you don't want to have something on you that identifies you with the program then you shouldn't wear the vest. We are in the process of working out the details. This is getting very big very fast. We expect to have 2000 riders in the program by year-end. If you are interested in this please contact me direct with your name, location, and phone number. You may also subscribe to the Road Assist Rider List by sending the message "subscribe road-assist" (w/o parentheses) to listserv@XXXXXX Thanks and cheers. Jeff Harth Philly 1986 BMW K100RS ROAD ASSIST RIDER ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 09:23:32 -0500 (EST) From: SweetlyBee@XXXXXX Subject: BMW swap meet, coolest leathers November 8th, I'm headed to one of the largest BMW swap meets happening. It's located in Norcross GA (near Atlanta). This is my first trip, but my significant other says it is a "real happening" in the BMW world. We're into vintage BMWs, so swap meets are sorta like a monster garage sale for motorcyclists. If you're headed to the meet, why not send email to me? Maybe we can connect there. Thanks for the "melt down" info on Aerostitch. It sounded appealing to me: cool, wetdown beneath, but somehow the melting aspect changed my mind. Yep, good ole leather once again is calling my name. I'm still struggling with safety vs staying cool in Mississippi heat though. "Rider" magazine November 1977 issue evaluated 25 motorcycle jackets (outfits) and the "coolest" leather was the "Bates Supervent" Maybe it's an overstatement by the evaluator, but when he said it was the coolest ride "this side of an ice cream truck" it surely caught my eye. We're talking *leather" jacket too! My curosity is soaring. Anyone know anything about "Bates Supervent" leathers? (Jacket suggested retail $435, available from Bates Leathers, 3700 N Industry Ave No 102, Lakewood CA 90712. Phone (562) 426-8668. (Oh, it's for men, but heck, if it's cool---maybe the outfit can be altered to ladies sizes. Oh---someone asked about women's motorcycle clubs---I have a bunch listed at my webpage so it's easy to check them out----http://members.aol.com/vechbmw/female.html Truth is, I haven't joined any organizations yet either, but definitely want to find some sister riders. The Pony Express Tour definitely caught my eye---riding to raise money for breast cancer research. But as a club? Same ole story for me. I live in the sticks of rural Mississippi---no clubs nearby. Any neighbors out there in a good riding group close to me that I don't know about? Elaine in Mississippi ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 10:31:08 -0500 (EST) From: Sianiam@XXXXXX Subject: hot / cold weather riding <> A lot of people I know who live in the Southwest wear perforated leathers or cordura with armor (like the Motoport I was talking about earlier.)I wish I could afford two sets of leathers- I'd get a perforated set as well as a normal set- both with nice big vents.But for now I wear my Motoport pants with a pair of bicycle type shorts underneath- that way when I get somewhere I can take off my pants in a public space if need be. I've never tried the Aerostitch but with all the raves on this list about them it seems like I should check them out. (I still am dreaming about my Bates leathers though...) In the summer the best thing is wearing a cotton layer under leather- you wet the cotton layer, zip up the leathers and the leather retains the wetness- the wind comes in and voila! an air conditioner. This works really well in the dry climate of the SW and probably not as well in more humid climates like in Texas. Just a wet sweatshirt or shirt will be dry in less than a minute in the desert so the leather helps keep the moisture in. I've riden through the Sonoran and Mojave deserts in 112 plus degrees with leathers on- people think I'm crazy but it's actually cooler than jeans. (It also helps keep you hydrated- I know a lot of riders out here who've passed out on rides because they've dehydrated) I also love my "Camel back"- It's a water bag in a backpack-type bag that hangs on your back and has a little tube running out so you can ride and drink. You can find it at bicycle shops. I put the water pack in the freezer overnight and then wear the iced pouch under my leather. Helps keep me cool with that cold spot on my back and as the ice melts there's cold water to drink while riding. It also has a big fill hole so you can stop at the gas station and put in more ice cubes and water. (The only problem is I end up drinking so much water on a ride that I need an iron bladder. ) I think all of this talk about hot weather may be therapeutic to those of you in colder climates. So, I hope it helped. But back to the cold weather reality: > Yes, my Guzzi has quite nice handwarmers (the cylinders are very close up top) and I have done this cross-hand steering trick often.:) sian le mans III / R100S / CB400-F ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 10:34:27 -0500 From: Linda Tanner Subject: Riding Suits As far as the discussion of riding suits has gone - I wear a Fieldsheer Patriot cordura suit that I bought early 96. Right after I bought it (and my F3) I had a get off at 50+ mph. The cordura held up very well with no melting. I was cold (40's) and raining and I slid (and tumbled) for quite some distance (50-100 feet). I ended up with several holes in the suit, but only one all the way through, so I had a dime sized bit of roadrash on one elbow where the elbow armor shifted (because the sleeves are too long). I hate the fact that I am stuck with ill fitting gear because I am a woman and not at all built like a man. I've since modified the suit to fit better and patch up the holes (but the sleeves are still too long). I have recently acquired a used set of leathers that are made to fit a woman, just not me (yet). I am slowly shrinking down to fit - it won't take more that another year ;-) Hot weather is another story. I bought some Draggin jeans that have reinforced-with-kevlar knees and seat for hot weather riding. They also don't come in women's sizes, so I have the waist cinched up heavily to keep them up. I wear the cordura jacket in all weathers, but sweat allot when it's really hot. I just pray to keep moving. Hot temps when you've got some speed up is bearable. I rode back from the Honda Hoot (500 miles) in 98 degrees temps on a slab with middling discomfort. Taking off the jacket on a slab is out of the question, so I lived with it. I spoke extensively with the Aerostich folks before I bought the Fieldsheer and basically without paying for extensive tailoring, there is no way for an Aerostich to fit me. $700-800 for a suit and doodads like the back protector and ellipse plus tailoring stuck in my craw. It may be a good suit, but...... Someday perhaps when I'm built more like a man. Keep on ridin' LindaT 95 F3 Purple Haze ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 08:09:28 -0800 (PST) From: Kathy Kost Subject: Re: BMW swap meet, coolest leathers > cool, wetdown beneath, but somehow the melting aspect changed my mind. Yep, > good ole leather once again is calling my name. I'm still struggling with Even though I mentioned the melt down situation, I have to admit that on all the various motorcycle lists I'm on and rags I read I have never heard of that situation happening. Didn't mean to scare anybody off the product by saying that. I was merely repeating what their documentation says when you buy the thing. I suspect that such an occurrence would only happen under a severely long and fast slide and it's in there to protect them liability wise. If you're leaning toward an Aerostitch, I wouldn't let that stop you. I agree that leathers are by far the best (particularly if you can get a custom one that fits right -- try not to do it by mail order like I did...disaster). But I will always have leathers and an Aerostitch/Motoport type suit at the same time. If I could only afford one, I'd go for the cordura since it's more flexible and easier to care for in all kinds of weather/situations. Just my two cents! Kathy '93 VFR750 Seattle, WA ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Nov 1997 12:18:03 -0500 From: RedRock Subject: Surviving winter Today is dreary, windy and rainy. There's a chill in the air and most of the trees' leaves laying wet on the roads. Not a day for riding. Sniff. I really *should* go down to the garage and start pulling the sell-able parts off the Guzzi... I think about all the great and not-so-great times brought my way by motorcycling this summer. And I think about the upcoming half a year when riding is an occasional adventure instead of a way of life. I'll take the riding season, thank you very much. So how does one survive the long dark drought that looms ahead? One way is this list. All you WISTers who are lucky enough to ride when the daylight is short-- I'm hoping you'll keep sharing your adventures! That way the rest of us unfortunates will be able to vicariously experience all the sensations and thrills we put on hiatus. Every day I look forward to checking the e-mail-- what new rider is sharing her excitement at the wonder of it all, funnies about fringe and being in love with these crazy machines, discussions on the personalities and names of our beasts, beautiful imagery like comparing cruisers to wooden sailing vessels, the differing perspectives, the fun and fascinating people I'm meeting. These things I know will feed the addiction all winter long. Thank you, WIST!!!! I'm REALLY glad you're here! -Erica Holmes, NY ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Nov 1997 15:35:08 -0500 From: Tricia Hennig <714144@XXXXXX> Subject: touring Response Re: Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 09:25:14 -0600 From: Cindi Knox Subject: Misspent youth, delayed. Wow! I just love reading exciting touring stories like Cindi's. I haven't braved a long distance (more than 5 hours or one day) of riding alone. I have been riding for almost six years now but my boyfriend has accompanied me on the long distance trips. I want to plan a trip next summer from Toronto to somewhere in the States. I've been to the east coast (Boston, Maine...) and through Detriot and Michigan to Chicago and to Galena Ill. I'd love to see Georgia but would like some advice on travelling alone for long times and distances. If anyone travels through Vermont the roads are excellently twisty!!! Tricia (CBR600F3) ------------------------------ End of WIST Digest V1997 #122 ***************************** Message posting address : wist@XXXXXX Administrative address : majordomo@XXXXXX To UNSUBSCRIBE from The WIST Digest, send mail to majordomo@XXXXXX with the following in the message body: unsubscribe wist-digest 'address' The 'address' component is optional and only necessary if you're sending the request from an address other than the one being unsubscribed. Please don't send these requests to the list address, only the administrative address. Mail sent to the wrong address will be ignored. Likewise, to subscribe or to get help, send mail to majordomo@XXXXXX with one or more of the following in the message body, as applicable: subscribe wist-digest help info wist-digest The contents of _The WIST Digest_ are solely the opinions and comments of the individual authors, and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the digest management. The editors do not assume responsibility for copyright infringement of submitted material. --part0_878480145_boundary-- From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 2 14:46:20 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA06327; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 14:46:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA19590; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 14:46:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from skippy.umiacs.umd.edu by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA08645; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 14:46:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.his.com by skippy.umiacs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA30184; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 14:46:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from harris.his.com (harris.his.com [205.177.25.196]) by mail.his.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA20268; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 14:45:07 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971102144302.007594d8@mail.his.com> X-Sender: harris@XXXXXX X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 14:43:02 -0500 To: 104521.1001@XXXXXX, rmattes@XXXXXX, Brian Summers , Carol Hickey , mcrdrcr@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX, deanscoot@XXXXXX (Flat Rat Racing), ets@XXXXXX, Fast Lane Cycles , Glen Ouye , Wangdahl_Glenn@XXXXXX, gjd6028@XXXXXX, hyrum@XXXXXX, jjs@XXXXXX, ims@XXXXXX, jdaniel@XXXXXX, John Capen , fraasj@XXXXXX, jjf@XXXXXX, Judy Laney , "KaydMan@XXXXXX" , Lori_Mennitt@XXXXXX, marka@XXXXXX, "CalMale99@XXXXXX" , green@XXXXXX, Mike & Mary Rowland , anderson@XXXXXX, nsummers@XXXXXX, dpauley1@XXXXXX, zubaly@XXXXXX, firehorse@XXXXXX, sturges_rich@XXXXXX, sturges@XXXXXX, rharris@XXXXXX (Rick Harris), Roger Bacon , sam@XXXXXX, burnham@XXXXXX, Steven Newton , smennitt@XXXXXX, BurnhamTed@XXXXXX, "tlewis(cont-mis)" , Tim Gooding , broglio@XXXXXX, pierre@XXXXXX, jbrad@XXXXXX, rgrant@XXXXXX, vzo1@XXXXXX, Wendy Karrpi From: Stephen Harris Subject: Team Charm wins regional championship Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Check out the details at http://www.his.com/~harris/teamchm.htm Next race; AHRMA Roebling Road 11/15-16/97. Enjoy --- Stephen Taylor Harris http://www.his.com/~harris From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 2 22:19:59 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA10037; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 22:19:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA24030; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 22:19:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp3.erols.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA13590; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 22:19:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from default (spg-as28s64.erols.com [207.172.46.127]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA07490 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 22:19:05 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19971102222215.0068a460@pop.erols.com> X-Sender: cfagan@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 22:22:15 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "Collin T. Fagan" Subject: Re: Lurkers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 06:49 PM 10/31/97 -0500, you wrote: >Hey, y'all-- > >It's sad when it takes a discussion of Jeannette's undergarments (or lack >thereof =:-D ) to bring out the lurkers on our _motorcycle_ list! > Jeannette's undergarments!! Damn, must have been one of those mutated threads that I stopped following after about the third post....Guess I better head through the trash file and catch up :) Damn, if only I was a better lurker...he he he Collin Who still says sir, grew up in black ice country, thinks mad mike should just buy ME a nice eyetalion bike to play with, loves to freak the cages on the 66 onramp by sliding the rear a bit (ok a lot), wears a helmet and likes it, carries guns, likes women without undies (wife doesn't believe in em either), drives way to fast, etc. etc. etc. hmmm did I leave any of em out? Oh yeah, who has the cheapest insurance, which is better dino or synth.... he he he I crack myself up sometimes....beautiful day...hopefully I can talk the womenz into letting me go for a ride......(probably not though since they are in number and can gang up on me) CT _________________________________________ Collin and Penny Fagan LTjg, U.S. Coast Guard (202) 366-0067 (work) (703) 356-4279 (home) (703) 816-7255 (pager) ICQ UIN: 435732 http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/5280/ (us, bikes, reptiles, and more) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 2 23:27:21 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id XAA10509; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 23:27:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id XAA24266; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 23:27:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from relay.mnsinc.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id XAA14388; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 23:27:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from charlie.mnsinc.com (charlie.mnsinc.com [206.239.52.83]) by relay.mnsinc.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA21571 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 23:27:00 -0500 (EST) From: 2xracers@XXXXXX (Anita Lauro) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Trailers? Date: Mon, 03 Nov 1997 04:27:01 GMT Message-ID: <3460514e.18420839@relay.mnsinc.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Does anyone know of a place in the DC area that rents motorcycle trailers? (The type that you tow behind your car with a motorcycle on it) I've found a great 1995 Nighthawk to buy, but it happens to be located north of Baltimore. I've never braved the Beltway (or any major highway) on a motorcycle, so I'm thinking a trailer would be the best way to get it home. =20 Thanks. Anita Lauro PS - My '94 Yamaha XT 350 *is* for sale. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 2 23:49:42 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id XAA10666; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 23:49:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id XAA24369; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 23:49:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from bos1d.delphi.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id XAA14645; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 23:49:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from [205.177.250.133] ("port 2048"@[205.177.250.133]) by delphi.com (PMDF V5.1-8 #23839) with SMTP id <01IPJW15W6JK8WXN6U@XXXXXX> for dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 23:33:10 EST Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 23:33:15 -0500 From: George Howell Subject: Re: argh.. To: Brian McCoy , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Message-id: <01IPJW18GCG68WXN6U@delphi.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > so just delete this.. > > > > and go watch your 'sppedvision'... > > > > hrumpf... bah humbug, to many cheerful souls around the office today I > think.... Would it be okay if I go pick up my new (used) R850R? Oops. Already did it. Got to ride it home in the rain Saturday. Loved every minute of it. Even better is that my brother (who has his learner's) could ride my old bike today (still haven't sold it) and we got to go out for about 150 miles. Not much, but about 10 times what my brother has ridden in the past with me following in the cage;) ``` (o o) *------------oooO----(_)-------------------* |..George Howell..ghowell@XXXXXX..........| |.................georgehowell@XXXXXX..| *--------------------------oooO------------* |__||__| || || ooO Ooo From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 3 00:44:26 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id AAA11640; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 00:44:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id AAA25588; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 00:44:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.clark.net by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id AAA15360; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 00:44:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from clark.net (hacker@XXXXXX [168.143.0.7]) by mail.clark.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA13047; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 00:44:05 -0500 (EST) From: Dark Hacker Received: (from hacker@localhost) by clark.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA23238; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 00:44:04 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 00:44:04 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199711030544.AAA23238@clark.net> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, gnissley@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Slippity slip. Cc: hacker@XXXXXX From: "Gil M. Nissley" Subject: Re: Slippity slip. BTW,we all know the smartest service is the Air Force.We send the _officers_ in to fight! Naw, the Air Force sends cruise missles in to fight. The Marines send in fists. "Launch your fist at that hill soldier!" - Hacker From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 3 01:39:09 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id BAA11860; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 01:39:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id BAA25906; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 01:39:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from cap1.CapAccess.org by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id BAA16024; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 01:39:01 -0500 (EST) Received: (from garicao@localhost) by cap1.CapAccess.org (8.6.12/8.6.10) id BAA19102; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 01:45:17 -0500 Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 01:45:16 -0500 (EST) From: Garcia Oliver To: "Dr. Martin Charron" , suzuki-l , dc-cycle Subject: Re: coolant In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Recent information collected by MCN strongly suggests that antifreezes containing silicates (abrasives)---most car formulations---cause accelerated water pump wear/failure in (at least) Honda motorcycles. Read the label. --garcia On Sun, 6 Jul 1997, Garcia Oliver wrote: > Car coolant is fine. Use about a 1:1 ratio (by volume) > distilled/deionized water-to-antifreeze. Drain, flush, and replace every > 2-3 years. Don't add cold liquid to hot radiator/engine that is not > running--can crack cylinder block from thermal shock. Most > antifreeze/coolant consists of ethylene glycol. This stuff is poisonous > to drink (metabolized to oxalic acid) and has a sweet taste. As a result, > it's particularly dangerous if dumped on the street where it can be lapped > up by animals/toddlers. Best to recycle it at gas station AND use > (non-toxic) propylene glycol antifreeze/coolant---it costs about a dollar > more a gallon and works equally well. > > --garcia > > "If they're begging for a few dollars, they are street people. If they're > begging for billions, they are lobbyists." [James Boone] > > > On Mon, 30 Jun 1997, Dr. Martin Charron wrote: > > > Anyone has used car coolant to put in your motorcycle?? > > > > martin > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 3 06:47:10 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id GAA13689; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 06:47:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id GAA27259; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 06:46:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp2.erols.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id GAA18736; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 06:46:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from default (spg-tnt2s18.erols.com [207.172.57.18]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA05974; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 06:46:49 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19971103065001.00b2dfcc@mail.geocities.com> X-Sender: gixer@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 03 Nov 1997 06:50:01 -0500 To: 2xracers@XXXXXX (Anita Lauro), dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "Collin T. Fagan" Subject: Re: Trailers? In-Reply-To: <3460514e.18420839@relay.mnsinc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 04:27 AM 11/3/97 GMT, Anita Lauro wrote: >Does anyone know of a place in the DC area that rents motorcycle >trailers? (The type that you tow behind your car with a motorcycle on >it) > >I've found a great 1995 Nighthawk to buy, but it happens to be located >north of Baltimore. I've never braved the Beltway (or any major >highway) on a motorcycle, so I'm thinking a trailer would be the best >way to get it home. > >Thanks. >Anita Lauro > >PS - My '94 Yamaha XT 350 *is* for sale. Anita, U-Haul has small trailers (flat bed with rails) for rent. I think they run like $15/day local. With a 4 pack of good tie-downs from Flawmart...err Walmart ($16) you should be good to go. Just make sure that the fork get compressed when you tie it down so the front end stays put. If you have any questions about the setup just drop me a note or call. I've been doing it for years on various sized bikes on my 5x8 trailer (unfortuneately it's at my brothers house in OK, otherwise you could use that) Good luck Collin _________________________________________ Collin and Penny Fagan LTjg, U.S. Coast Guard (202) 366-0067 (work) (703) 356-4279 (home) (703) 816-7255 (pager) ICQ UIN: 435732 http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/5280/ (us, bikes, reptiles, and more) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 3 08:31:29 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id IAA14332; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 08:31:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id IAA27693; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 08:31:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from micros-bh.micros.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id IAA19800; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 08:31:11 -0500 (EST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by micros-bh.micros.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) id IAA15275 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 08:31:10 -0500 Received: from micros.micros.com by micros-bh.micros.com via smap (3.2) id xma015262; Mon, 3 Nov 97 08:30:59 -0500 Received: from smtplink.micros.com (smtplink.micros.com [206.241.52.10]) by micros.micros.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/micros-2.1) with SMTP id IAA00533 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 08:30:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccMail by smtplink.micros.com (ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.00) id AA878563702; Mon, 03 Nov 97 08:28:25 -0500 Message-Id: <9711038785.AA878563702@smtplink.micros.com> X-Mailer: ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.00 Date: Mon, 03 Nov 97 08:26:57 -0500 From: "Brian McCoy" To: Subject: Re[2]: argh.. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit yea, well I got to listen to my bike RUN on Saturday.. so :P~~~~~ But then I had to give Kevin Thomas his parts back so he could ride HIS bike... bummer, but I know what the problem is (what I suspected) and have a new part on order... so maybe this Friday I can go ride (damn, first time in nearly 2 months) cheers.. Brian McCoy bmccoy@XXXXXX ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Got to ride it home in the rain Saturday. Loved every minute of it. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 3 09:36:59 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA14871; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 09:36:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA28154; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 09:36:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from relay2.smtp.psi.net by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA21094; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 09:36:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from subspace.tuckerflyer.com by relay2.smtp.psi.net (8.8.5/SMI-5.4-PSI) id JAA16236; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 09:36:42 -0500 (EST) Received: by subspace.tuckerflyer.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) id ; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 09:35:20 -0500 Message-ID: <2AA74B7F5518D111ADAF00805F31F84D1DD1FB@badge.tuckerflyer.com> From: "O'Brien, Jeannette" To: "'Brian McCoy'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Re[2]: argh.. Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 09:36:01 -0500 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/plain YAY!! I'm so happy for you... I didn't get to ride at all this weekend 'cause I was moving...hope this weekend is good. - Jeannette > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian McCoy [SMTP:bmccoy@XXXXXX] > Sent: Monday, November 03, 1997 8:27 AM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re[2]: argh.. > > > yea, well I got to listen to my bike RUN on Saturday.. so :P~~~~~ > But then I had to give Kevin Thomas his parts back so he could ride > HIS bike... > bummer, but I know what the problem is (what I suspected) and have a > new part on > order... so maybe this Friday I can go ride (damn, first time in > nearly 2 > months) > > cheers.. > > Brian McCoy bmccoy@XXXXXX > > ______________________________ Reply Separator > _________________________________ > Got to ride it home in the rain Saturday. Loved every minute of > it. > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 3 11:29:44 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA16864; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 11:29:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA29750; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 11:29:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from oasys.dt.navy.mil by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA24898; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 11:29:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from bayview.dt.navy.mil by oasys.dt.navy.mil (5.61/oasys.dt.navy.mil) id AA00687; Mon, 3 Nov 97 11:29:05 EST Received: from Spooler by BAYVIEW.DT.NAVY.MIL (Mercury/32 1.22); 3 Nov 97 08:30:14 -0008 Received: from spooler by bayview.dt.navy.mil (Mercury/32 1.23); 3 Nov 97 08:30:01 -0008 Received: from Black_Diamond.dt.navy.mil by Bayview (Mercury/32 v1.23); 3 Nov 97 08:29:59 -0008 From: "Bruce Dimon" To: "Meier, Christopher" , "'Brian McCoy'" Cc: Subject: Re: Re[2]: Slippity slip. Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 04:12:27 -0800 Message-Id: <01bce851$c074b400$c1a0bb9d@Black_Diamond.dt.navy.mil> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 It was my observation that DC area drivers fall into two categories: 1) Drivers who moved here from places that never get snow. They have no idea how to drive in it. They are afraid of winter driving. 2) Drivers from places that get a lot more snow. They know how to drive in it and, by God, they are going to show the rest of us just how _fast_ they can drive in it. They have no fear of winter driving but they should. Both groups seem to wind up in the ditch with equal frequency. Bruce Breidfjord Dimon, Senior Programmer/Analyst A&T Engineering Technologies, VECTOR Research Division Work: 208-683-2080, FAX: 208-683-2036 Work: dimon@XXXXXX Home: Bruce_Dimon@XXXXXX Northern Idaho, The Land of Lakes and Lattes! From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 3 11:31:25 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA16898; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 11:31:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA29808; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 11:31:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from beta.mcit.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA25010; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 11:31:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from omzrelay.mcit.com (omzrelay.mcit.com [166.37.204.49]) by beta.mcit.com (8.8.8/) with ESMTP id KAA03365 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 10:30:44 -0600 (CST) Received: from imeid01.mcit.com.mci.com (imeid01.mcit.com [166.37.221.13]) by omzrelay.mcit.com (8.8.7/) with ESMTP id KAA18279 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 10:30:41 -0600 (CST) Received: from localHost ([166.41.242.141]) by imeid01.mcit.com.mci.com (Intermail v3.1 117 223) with SMTP id <19971103161822.BFIC20735@[166.41.242.141]> for ; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 10:18:22 -0600 Date: Mon, 03 Nov 1997 11:08 -0500 (EST) From: Todd Peer To: dc-cycles Subject: FW: (Fwd) Lasers and Motrocycles, Part Deux! X-Mailer: MailRoom v2.1e Message-Id: <19971103161822.BFIC20735@[166.41.242.141]> x-post from HSTA. You may have already read this. LONG! Delete now if not interested in a little laser testing.... Todd Forwarded message: _________________________________________________________________ > ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- > Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 20:16:26 -0800 > Reply-to: proddy@XXXXXX > From: "Pat Roddy" > To: BMW -GS motorcycles mailing list > Subject: Lasers and Motrocycles, Part Deux! > > > Hi everyone! > > As most of you know, I wrote a report on lasers and motorcycles a few > weeks ago, and I have some very interesting points to pass onto you to > augment the previous report. > > Another motorcycle patrol officer (MPO) read my first report that was > published in our BMW Owners of GA newsletter, and today, he brought in > his > laser unit to clear up a few points that MPO #1 had told me. > > Again, this officer and his jurisdiction will remain confidential. I > can > tell you he does ride a BMW R1100 RT for his personal bike, but his > 'official' motor will also remain confidential to protect his > identity. I > have gotten to know this gentleman quite well over the past several > weeks > as he is a regular drop in customer of ours at Global Imports BMW. If > I > EVER get stopped by a patrolman, I either hope it is by this one or by > one > who shares this officers' personality and overall outlook on traffic > on our > highways and byways. > > Report: Laser Guns and Motorcycles. > > Today, another very friendly but much less 'brash' officer of the law > approached me after reading my previous report on laser guns and > offered to > take me out and use his laser gun. He was not on duty and due to > torrential > rains in the Atlanta area this morning, he was in his car. As I was > buckling my seat belt, the first thing he related to me that this gun > would > not work well through the windshield, especially if it was wet. The > rains > were abating as we left the parking lot in search of a good place to > 'set > up'. > > About a mile from the shop, we stopped in a vacant parking lot and he > aligned his car so I would have a clean shot of traffic coming down or > going away from us on this road. > > His initial directions were extremely easy. > "Line up your target in the HUD (Heads up display) reticle and pull > the > trigger. At oncoming traffic, aim at the front end of the car and > target > the license plate area. At 1000 feet, you have a cone of light four > feet > wide". > > I 'missed' my first few targets, surprised at the weight of this unit > (4.4 > lbs). After my fifth or sixth car though, I was hitting them > consistently. > The speed would be also shown on the HUD so I would not have to take > my > eyes off the car in the HUD to read the digital readout on the rear of > the > unit. I then asked him what the law said as to visibility of the > patrol > officer to the oncoming traffic. > > "We have to be visible for at least 500 feet-at least here in Georgia" > was > his reply. Target that clump of trees at the curve and we'll have our > distance". I did what he told me and in less than a second had a > reading > of 666 feet. "We are now 'legal' as to visibility", he smiled. > > I tried to target a few vehicles going away from me, but was not > getting a > return signal. > > "See the mists rising from the road and the spray from the cars?" he > asked > me. I nodded. "That is diffusing the beam. These units work great in > dry > weather but in the rain are not real good". > > Due to a target poor environment, we moved down the road a quarter > mile to > a new bridge being built over I-75, closed to traffic by orange > barrels. We > drove between them and parked on the bridge. > > "This is where you'll have some fun", he smiled. "You won't believe > how > fast most people drive". > > Instead of trying to extend the cigarette lighter adapter out the > window, > he brought out a portable 12V. battery out of his trunk, placed it on > the > wall of the bridge, and although we were shooting through a chain link > fence, he immediately got several readings from the oncoming traffic. > He > then handed me the unit. "Knock yourself out", again with a smile. > > For the next half hour, I was amazed. And I got pretty good with the > unit > too. > > "Get that white Ford Explorer in the inside lane-that guy is flying. > Must > be doing 78 miles per hour". I'd dutifully nail the offender. "78 > right on > the nose", I'd say. He did this a dozen or so times, and was never > more > than one mph off. I was truly impressed with his ability in judging > oncoming speeds of all kinds of vehicles. > > We then walked to the lanes going away from us. > > "You'll find getting vehicles from the rear much easier". > > And I did. I could get readings from several cars and trucks in almost > as > many seconds. > > "Hit that truck!" "Stay with him, stay with him!" I got a reading in > the > HUD within two seconds and stuck with him until the unit started > 'squawking', meaning I'd lost the return signal. "What's the range > say?, he > asked. "Uhhh, 1850 feet", I said. > > "Not bad, but many times, we can get trucks at over 4500 feet, the > theoretical limit of this particular laser". We can't usually ID them > from > that far, but we can sure get their speed. Under ideal conditions we > have > even exceeded 4500 feet. > > "Bikes, bikes" was the next thing I heard, so I swung my unit towards > them > as they receded, and within 2 seconds had the one on the left. 70 mph. > I > then moved the unit infinitesimally to the right and immediately got > the > right hand bike not 3 feet away from his partner (they were sharing > the > same lane, side by side) at 71 mph. The speed limit where we were > stationed > was 55. > > I then hit cars, school buses, Volvo station wagons, Bimmers, Chevys, > almost anything. Not once, not once, did I register someone doing 55. > Sometimes, I'd see someone really busting the limit, but I wouldn't > get a > return. The unit was heavy and after several minutes, my arms would > fatigue. > > "We have a shoulder 'stock' like a rifle stock, but I didn't bring > it. > That really helps in stabilizing the unit for long periods". > > After 30-40 minutes, I had to get back to the shop. On the way back, > he > shared several things with me that I do not think he'd mind me > repeating. > In fact, I am sure he will be reading this report very soon anyway :-) > > "I give everyone 20 miles over the limit-I'll give 75 in a 55, 85 in a > 65 > and 90 in a 70, but over that, I am going to come after you. I would > never > consider getting someone 10 over-hell, everyone is 10-15 over." > > "I really hate it when someone tells me " ' You must have gotten the > car > next to me, officer. I wasn't going that fast. I was just keeping up > with > traffic.' " He smiled, said "Pat, you now know why THAT argument is > no > good, now don't you? With this unit, you see who is speeding and who > isn't. > It's hard to make a mistake." I smiled and nodded. > > "To cover myself in court, I have to observe a car going much faster > than > everyone else, then I'll get him with the laser. Just scanning the > roads > and picking out the fastest one usually won't hold up. You have to > observe > them exceeding the limit first." > > I took this moment to confess to him that the few times I've been > stopped, > and the officer asked me why I think he stopped me, I always come > clean and > admit that "Yes, officer. I do believe I know why you stopped me. I > was > over the posted speed limit. Honesty has always worked for me on > bikes. I > have 3 warnings but no tickets." "Pat, honesty works with me too. You > lie > to me, you'll get ticket", he smiled. "You won't believe some of the > excuses we hear." > > "I never go after bikes. I'll target them sometimes but I never go > after > them. Hell, I ride and on my personal bike, I go like hell sometimes. > I > don't mess with bikers". > > I asked him if it ever bothers him when he has someone coming at him > at 90 > or over and he can't get a solid reading. > > "Happens all the time. A truck will change lanes, or someone will > interfere > somehow, and I just shrug and wait a few minutes. Somebody else always > comes along. I never have to wait too long." > > "It's like a big game out there. You do your best, that's all you can > do." > > "Do you have quotas?". I asked. > > "Not in my patrol area. I hear other agencies do, but we don't". > > "When using a laser gun, you need to be in as straight a line with > the > traffic as possible. If you are off to one side, then the cosine > effect > will come into play. Light travels at 186,200 miles per second. This > unit > sends out several hundred pulses of light per second, starts a timer > with > each pulse, waits for a return, and measures the time it takes for the > signal to return. If you are off at an angle, the cosine means your > angle > is increased from the oncoming traffic and the speeds you record are > falsely lower. We can't get you crossing an intersection from a 90 > degree > angle, because the light will bounce off you and return to us, but you > aren't closing on us or going away, so the unit will usually not give > us a > good reading." > > "The profiles of some makes of cars makes it hard to get a signal, so > you > have to stay with them longer. They aren't impossible, just harder to > hit." > > "You have to take a course to get certified to use the laser. With > radar, > it's the same. You have to recertify every two years for radar." > > > > I hope this adds some data points from my last report. As you can > tell, > this officer took a lot of time to explain how it works, how he uses > it, > and shared his 'philosophy' of handling some speeders. > > pr > Don Ivey > '78 LeMans > '79 SP1000 > '81 R80G/S > '71 A-R 1750 GTV > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 3 12:43:09 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA18291; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 12:43:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from ringding.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA00697; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 12:43:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from quimby by ringding.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA04396; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 12:42:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from jil-c_norloff by quimby.toward.com (IBM OS/2 SENDMAIL VERSION 2.01/2.0) for ; id MAB459.93; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 12:37:02 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970901084638.0093a2c0@204.194.180.21> X-Sender: cnorloff@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 08:46:38 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Chris Norloff Subject: Re: Slippity slip. In-Reply-To: <19971031200742.CLOK28671@[166.41.242.141]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 03:00 PM 10/31/97 -0500, Todd Peer wrote: > >Oh Pooo! > > Hey Chris, fix your system clock. Your about a month late (showing > 9/1/97 today) Sorry 'bout that. You're the second person who's noted that, hope it isn't messing up folks. I'm working on a big project that has to have the "official document date" on it. The idiot customer rigged the word processor files to use "today's date" so when anybody edits the files we have to change the system date. sheesh, Chris Norloff From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 3 12:57:41 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA18554; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 12:57:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from ringding.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA00804; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 12:57:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from quimby by ringding.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA04874; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 12:57:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from jil-c_norloff by quimby.toward.com (IBM OS/2 SENDMAIL VERSION 2.01/2.0) for ; id MAD459.93; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 12:56:37 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970901122206.0093ae30@204.194.180.21> X-Sender: cnorloff@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 12:22:06 -0400 To: From: Chris Norloff Subject: Re: Slippity slip. In-Reply-To: <19971031234500.AAA24031@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >But bear with me for a minute. If, in normal, 2/10ths riding, we are >slipping on pavement lines, and in respectable 5/10ths riding we are >sliding the rear accelerating in traffic, and at 7/10ths, just having a >good time, we slide both ends convienently near a cemetary, what will >happen when some brain-dead-cager makes some typical stupid move and tries >to kill us? That's really scary. At only "2/10ths" riding, you're slipping? And at "5/10ths" you're spinning wheels? To me that sounds like you have a very serious deficiency somewhere -- tires, tire pressure, something. Motorcycles need a lot more reserve than to lose traction so easily. The question is not whether or not my 1982 sport bike is "slow" (actually I thought it was the rider that was fast or slow) -- the question is how should a motorcyclist ride? We need a lot of traction reserve to counter the typical Brain Dead Cager antics, and if you're spinning tires regularly then you don't have the traction reserve I think you need for emergency situations. Chris Norloff From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 3 13:34:00 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA19214; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 13:33:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA01132; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 13:33:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from quimby by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA29178; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 13:33:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from jil-c_norloff by quimby.toward.com (IBM OS/2 SENDMAIL VERSION 2.01/2.0) for ; id NAB464.33; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 13:32:56 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970901131529.009f0b10@204.194.180.21> X-Sender: cnorloff@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 13:15:29 -0400 To: From: Chris Norloff Subject: Re: Re[2]: Slippity slip. In-Reply-To: <01bce851$c074b400$c1a0bb9d@Black_Diamond.dt.navy.mil> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 04:12 AM 11/3/97 -0800, Bruce Dimon wrote: >It was my observation that DC area drivers fall into two categories: > >1) Drivers who moved here from places that never get snow. They have no idea >how to drive in it. They are afraid of winter driving. > >2) Drivers from places that get a lot more snow. They know how to drive in >it and, by God, they are going to show the rest of us just how _fast_ they >can drive in it. They have no fear of winter driving but they should. > >Both groups seem to wind up in the ditch with equal frequency. Especially those 4-wheel-drive "sport-utility" (ha! ha!) vehicle owners who think 4WD gives them better traction when braking or turning. I blame a lot of winter driving problems on the "stop-pedal, go-pedal" mentality of drivers. If the car doesn't go when they press on the go-pedal they get confused. If the car doesn't stop when they press on the stop-pedal they get alarmed. Then they abandon their cars in the middle of the street to keep anyone else from getting through. Chris Norloff From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 3 13:50:16 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA19416; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 13:50:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA01258; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 13:50:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from egate2.citicorp.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA29581; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 13:50:07 -0500 (EST) From: aki.damme@XXXXXX Received: by egate2.citicorp.com id AA00044 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for dc-cycles@XXXXXX); Mon, 3 Nov 1997 13:49:51 -0500 Message-Id: <199711031849.AA00044@egate2.citicorp.com> Received: by egate2.citicorp.com (Protected-side Proxy Mail Agent-3); Mon, 3 Nov 1997 13:49:51 -0500 Received: by egate2.citicorp.com (Protected-side Proxy Mail Agent-2); Mon, 3 Nov 1997 13:49:51 -0500 Received: by egate2.citicorp.com (Protected-side Proxy Mail Agent-1); Mon, 3 Nov 1997 13:49:51 -0500 Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 13:47:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Re[2]: Slippity slip. To: cnorloff@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970901131529.009f0b10@204.194.180.21> X-Mailer: Worldtalk (4.1.1-p1)/MIME > At 04:12 AM 11/3/97 -0800, Bruce Dimon wrote: > >It was my observation that DC area drivers fall into two categories: > > > >1) Drivers who moved here from places that never get snow. They have no idea > >how to drive in it. They are afraid of winter driving. > > > >2) Drivers from places that get a lot more snow. They know how to drive in > >it and, by God, they are going to show the rest of us just how _fast_ they > >can drive in it. They have no fear of winter driving but they should. > > > >Both groups seem to wind up in the ditch with equal frequency. > > Especially those 4-wheel-drive "sport-utility" (ha! ha!) vehicle owners who > think 4WD gives them better traction when braking or turning. ..how about amending the above to "some" vice "those"...I have a SUV as well as a few of my friends and we don't drive like that... ;-) > > I blame a lot of winter driving problems on the "stop-pedal, go-pedal" > mentality of drivers. If the car doesn't go when they press on the > go-pedal they get confused. If the car doesn't stop when they press on the > stop-pedal they get alarmed. Then they abandon their cars in the middle of > the street to keep anyone else from getting through. > > Chris Norloff > > > > > > X-Sender: cnorloff@XXXXXX > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 3 14:20:04 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA20144; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 14:20:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA01727; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 14:19:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from micros-bh.micros.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA01274; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 14:19:55 -0500 (EST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by micros-bh.micros.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) id OAA18317 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 14:19:52 -0500 Received: from micros.micros.com by micros-bh.micros.com via smap (3.2) id xma018295; Mon, 3 Nov 97 14:19:47 -0500 Received: from smtplink.micros.com (smtplink.micros.com [206.241.52.10]) by micros.micros.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/micros-2.1) with SMTP id OAA09328 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 14:19:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccMail by smtplink.micros.com (ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.00) id AA878584355; Mon, 03 Nov 97 14:17:12 -0500 Message-Id: <9711038785.AA878584355@smtplink.micros.com> X-Mailer: ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.00 Date: Mon, 03 Nov 97 14:11:45 -0500 From: "Brian McCoy" To: Subject: Re[2]: Slippity slip. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This was not based on 'typical' riding. This was considering cold weather/frost on the roads. And I can, on a whim, spin tires on my 500 going no faster than 15/20 MPH on the first right turn going to work. Then agaian, it's a heavy intersection that has lots of drippings. In real world applications, on 'reasonable' rides (not 30 degrees, frosty, and humid) it takes about 8/10ths to spin tires (all this on an old tech sportbike - either my CB1100('83) or VF500('86)). you cut a little to much from the first post from Kevin - (2/10ths slipping on pavement markings) I believe was what it stated. *shrug* Brian McCoy ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ That's really scary. At only "2/10ths" riding, you're slipping? And at "5/10ths" you're spinning wheels? To me that sounds like you have a very serious deficiency somewhere -- tires, tire pressure, something. Motorcycles need a lot more reserve than to lose traction so easily. The question is not whether or not my 1982 sport bike is "slow" (actually I thought it was the rider that was fast or slow) -- the question is how should a motorcyclist ride? We need a lot of traction reserve to counter the typical Brain Dead Cager antics, and if you're spinning tires regularly then you don't have the traction reserve I think you need for emergency situations. Chris Norloff From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 3 14:25:16 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA20208; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 14:25:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA01769; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 14:25:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from DONALD.CDER.FDA.GOV by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA01376; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 14:25:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from mr.cder.fda.gov by fdaserv.cder.fda.gov (PMDF V5.1-8 #21467) id <01IPKQ6JUV0G8X8SVM@XXXXXX> for dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 14:24:17 EST Received: with PMDF-MR; Mon, 03 Nov 1997 14:13:06 -0500 (EST) MR-Received: by mta DONALD; Relayed; Mon, 03 Nov 1997 14:13:06 -0500 Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Mon, 03 Nov 1997 14:13:10 -0500 (EST) From: Kirk Roy Subject: Re: Slippity slip. To: DC Cycles Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Mon, 03 Nov 1997 14:13:11 -0500 (EST) Importance: normal Priority: normal Sensitivity: Company-Confidential UA-content-id: E1079ICD32CJZ X400-MTS-identifier: [;60314130117991/2082461@FDACD] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 1 >> Especially those 4-wheel-drive "sport-utility" (ha! ha!) vehicle owners >> who think 4WD gives them better traction when braking or turning. > >..how about amending the above to "some" vice "those"...I have a SUV as >well as a few of my friends and we don't drive like that... ;-) Yeah! One of the biggest advantages (or disadvantages depending on your point of view) is that I can hop in my truck and not have to wait until they plow the roads. While this may not be particularly important to the average person around here it is a great advantage to all the local hospitals that use volunteer 4 wheel drive owners to act as ambulances when the ambulances can't get around... Besides, they're just plain fun off road (though not the same kind of fun as a dirt bike). Moto content: has anyone commuted on a dualsport bike in the snow? Kirk 88 Hawk GT 89 Dodge Raider From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 3 15:30:44 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA21216; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 15:30:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA02341; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 15:30:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from beta.mcit.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA03296; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 15:30:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from ndcrelay.mcit.com (ndcrelay.mcit.com [166.37.172.49]) by beta.mcit.com (8.8.8/) with ESMTP id OAA09638 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 14:29:41 -0600 (CST) Received: from nmss1b.mcit.com.mci.com (nmss1b.mcit.com [166.37.172.6]) by ndcrelay.mcit.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA17440 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 15:29:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from chan4377 ([166.32.114.127]) by nmss1b.mcit.com.mci.com (Intermail v3.1 117 223) with SMTP id <19971103202935.JEY4123@[166.32.114.127]> for ; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 15:29:35 -0500 Message-ID: <345E342E.7E46@mci.com> Date: Mon, 03 Nov 1997 15:29:34 -0500 From: Dale Horstman Reply-To: Dale.Horstman@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Slippity slip. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > >> Especially those 4-wheel-drive "sport-utility" (ha! ha!) vehicle owners > >> who think 4WD gives them better traction when braking or turning. > > If I stop and think about the number of these supposedly 'safer' SUV's I've seen either flipped over in the middle of the road, or off in a ditch somewhere, it scares me. SUV's outnumber all other vehicles I've seen crashed in the last few years. Thankfully, most of the crashes seemed to be loss of control while driving too fast for conditions, no other cars involved. I got rear-ended in my cage a few weeks ago by an Isuzu Trooper, (coincidentally, the type of accident I fear most while on my bike, it still gives me shivers...). He said he hydro planed into the back of me; the roads were wet, but there wasn't any standing water. I think those wide-assed dirt tires he had on there had something to do with it... Dale (the Horkster) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 3 15:44:27 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA21467; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 15:44:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA02598; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 15:44:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from quimby by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA03936; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 15:44:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from jil-c_norloff by quimby.toward.com (IBM OS/2 SENDMAIL VERSION 2.01/2.0) for ; id PAB474.04; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 15:43:24 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970901154455.0092fcd0@204.194.180.21> X-Sender: cnorloff@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 15:44:55 -0400 To: From: Chris Norloff Subject: Re: Re[2]: Slippity slip. In-Reply-To: <9711038785.AA878584355@smtplink.micros.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 02:11 PM 11/3/97 -0500, Brian McCoy wrote: > This was not based on 'typical' riding. This was considering cold > weather/frost on the roads. Well, that's pretty typical road conditions if you ride this time of year. > And I can, on a whim, spin tires on my > 500 going no faster than 15/20 MPH on the first right turn going to > work. Then agaian, it's a heavy intersection that has lots of > drippings. In real world applications, on 'reasonable' rides (not 30 > degrees, frosty, and humid) it takes about 8/10ths to spin tires (all > this on an old tech sportbike - either my CB1100('83) or VF500('86)). Well, it seems to me that real world is what you ride, not perfect pavement. Your (and my) real world riding includes negotiating intersections with drippings, and roads with frost (at this time of year). > you cut a little to much from the first post from Kevin - (2/10ths > slipping on pavement markings) I believe was what it stated. That's what he said, and I quoted him completely in my response. You removed it from your message (I quote your complete message below). Since this thread has now been driven away from the original points, but the original comments are still being applied, it's best to stop now. My point, which has not been refuted, is that you have to ride within your limits (WHATEVER they are). If a rider rides on a public street at a speed such that tire temperature is the critical factor in wrecking or not wrecking then the rider invites disaster. Old rider, bold riders, but no old AND bold riders, Chris Norloff ************************************************************************ At 02:11 PM 11/3/97 -0500, Brian McCoy wrote: > > This was not based on 'typical' riding. This was considering cold > weather/frost on the roads. And I can, on a whim, spin tires on my > 500 going no faster than 15/20 MPH on the first right turn going to > work. Then agaian, it's a heavy intersection that has lots of > drippings. In real world applications, on 'reasonable' rides (not 30 > degrees, frosty, and humid) it takes about 8/10ths to spin tires (all > this on an old tech sportbike - either my CB1100('83) or VF500('86)). > > you cut a little to much from the first post from Kevin - (2/10ths > slipping on pavement markings) I believe was what it stated. > > *shrug* > > Brian McCoy > > >______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ > > >That's really scary. At only "2/10ths" riding, you're slipping? And at >"5/10ths" you're spinning wheels? To me that sounds like you have a very >serious deficiency somewhere -- tires, tire pressure, something. >Motorcycles need a lot more reserve than to lose traction so easily. > > >The question is not whether or not my 1982 sport bike is "slow" (actually I >thought it was the rider that was fast or slow) -- the question is how >should a motorcyclist ride? We need a lot of traction reserve to counter >the typical Brain Dead Cager antics, and if you're spinning tires regularly >then you don't have the traction reserve I think you need for emergency >situations. > >Chris Norloff > > > > > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 3 15:44:29 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA21472; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 15:44:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA02595; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 15:44:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from quimby by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA03932; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 15:44:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from jil-c_norloff by quimby.toward.com (IBM OS/2 SENDMAIL VERSION 2.01/2.0) for ; id PAA474.04; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 15:43:02 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970901153204.0092fcd0@204.194.180.21> X-Sender: cnorloff@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 15:32:04 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Chris Norloff Subject: Re: Re[2]: Slippity slip. In-Reply-To: <199711031849.AA00044@egate2.citicorp.com> References: <3.0.1.32.19970901131529.009f0b10@204.194.180.21> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> Especially those 4-wheel-drive "sport-utility" (ha! ha!) vehicle owners who >> think 4WD gives them better traction when braking or turning. > >..how about amending the above to "some" vice "those"...I have a SUV as >well as a few of my friends and we don't drive like that... ;-) Well, actually, I said "...those ... who think 4WD gives them better traction ...". That automatically included only those people who don't understand 4WD and traction, and excluded people who understand 4WD. I leave my original comment as it was. :-) Chris Norloff From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 3 15:51:08 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA21607; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 15:51:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA02788; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 15:51:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from micros-bh.micros.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA04135; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 15:51:00 -0500 (EST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by micros-bh.micros.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) id PAA29101 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 15:51:01 -0500 Received: from micros.micros.com by micros-bh.micros.com via smap (3.2) id xma029055; Mon, 3 Nov 97 15:50:38 -0500 Received: from smtplink.micros.com (smtplink.micros.com [206.241.52.10]) by micros.micros.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/micros-2.1) with SMTP id PAA12146 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 15:50:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccMail by smtplink.micros.com (ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.00) id AA878590080; Mon, 03 Nov 97 15:48:02 -0500 Message-Id: <9711038785.AA878590080@smtplink.micros.com> X-Mailer: ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.00 Date: Mon, 03 Nov 97 15:46:34 -0500 From: "Brian McCoy" To: Subject: winter riding... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit never a dualsport - but I did do 2 other things. first was a tortured (before I go it) KZ440 that had bald tires. We (roomie and myslef) ran 1/2" wood screws through the tires, coted the inside with lots of duct tape and reinstalled. They worked great on ice and shallow snow, but it tracked badly in deeper stuff. And the other one was a WR dirtbike that we put a paddle tire on the back (usualy for sand riding) - that thing would throw out HUGE rooster tails.. it was a blast - again, it didn't track very well when it got real deep, but it was better than the KZ. We'd take these 2 things out and race the snowmachiners in Montana... and commute to and from school (15 miles). Do I hear a 'when I was a kid' story coming on?..... *grin* Cherrios.. Brian McCoy ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Moto content: has anyone commuted on a dualsport bike in the snow? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 3 15:57:49 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA21899; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 15:57:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA02909; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 15:57:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from egate2.citicorp.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA04626; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 15:57:36 -0500 (EST) From: aki.damme@XXXXXX Received: by egate2.citicorp.com id AA04153 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for dc-cycles@XXXXXX); Mon, 3 Nov 1997 15:57:28 -0500 Message-Id: <199711032057.AA04153@egate2.citicorp.com> Received: by egate2.citicorp.com (Protected-side Proxy Mail Agent-3); Mon, 3 Nov 1997 15:57:28 -0500 Received: by egate2.citicorp.com (Protected-side Proxy Mail Agent-2); Mon, 3 Nov 1997 15:57:28 -0500 Received: by egate2.citicorp.com (Protected-side Proxy Mail Agent-1); Mon, 3 Nov 1997 15:57:28 -0500 Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 15:54:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Slippity slip. To: Dale.Horstman@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In-Reply-To: <345E342E.7E46@mci.com> X-Mailer: Worldtalk (4.1.1-p1)/MIME far be it for me to defend all SUV drivers but, the last report I read in Driver magazine mentioned that the SUV market is the fastest selling market of all other vehicles sold in the U.S. so consequently, it's not suprising to see more SUV's in a ditch. However, last winter, although not as bad as previous winters, still had a large number of non-SUV vehicles hiked up sideways in medians, in ditches and into trees...with the advent of "all wheel drive" cages, I think there will be even more cages wrapping themselves around trees. I (being the good samaritian that I am), helped more cars out of ditches, driveways, sidestreets and medians than SUV's by a large number last year (one Chevy SUV was stuck in a ditch when it spun out in Reston Parkway in Reston and the rest were cars (about 8 of them),in ditches on rt 7).... ..one of the problems with SUV's are that people buy them without knowing either the limitations of the vehicle or their driving ability...just like motorcycles... oh great...now we have even MORE people out there that can't drive what they're sitting on/in! Not to mention the fact that, due to El Nino, we'll either have a very mild winter or a *really* bad one...has anyone heard the latest predictions on what this winter is supposed to be like in the D.C. area? cheers, -aki > > > > >> Especially those 4-wheel-drive "sport-utility" (ha! ha!) vehicle owners > > >> who think 4WD gives them better traction when braking or turning. > > > > If I stop and think about the number of these supposedly 'safer' SUV's > I've seen either flipped over in the middle of the road, or off > in a ditch somewhere, it scares me. SUV's outnumber all other > vehicles I've seen crashed in the last few years. Thankfully, > most of the crashes seemed to be loss of control while driving > too fast for conditions, no other cars involved. > > I got rear-ended in my cage a few weeks ago by an Isuzu Trooper, > (coincidentally, the type of accident I fear most while on my > bike, it still gives me shivers...). > He said he hydro planed into the back of me; the roads were wet, > but there wasn't any standing water. I think those wide-assed dirt > tires he had on there had something to do with it... > > Dale (the Horkster) > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 3 16:07:40 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA22074; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 16:07:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA03176; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 16:07:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from dirsun1.nichd.nih.gov by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA05011; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 16:07:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from dirsun1.nichd.nih.gov ([137.187.221.31]) by dirsun1.nichd.nih.gov (8.8.5/8.7.2) with ESMTP id QAA05800; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 16:06:15 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <345E3C92.B5832E7B@dirsun1.nichd.nih.gov> Date: Mon, 03 Nov 1997 16:05:23 -0500 From: jay goddard X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dale.Horstman@XXXXXX CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Slippity slip. References: <345E342E.7E46@mci.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit When I had my Jeep I had "wide assed dirt tires" and with them I NEVER hydroplaned, 60mph through a 6 inch deep puddle, no problem. It was much harder to stop though. Big trucks are like big bikes 95% of the people who have them should not. Insurances is rising fast for them would you believe when a SUV hits a Escort at 50 mph it kills the people inside the car and the people in the truck walk away. Jay Dale Horstman wrote: > > > > >> Especially those 4-wheel-drive "sport-utility" (ha! ha!) vehicle owners > > >> who think 4WD gives them better traction when braking or turning. > > > > If I stop and think about the number of these supposedly 'safer' SUV's > I've seen either flipped over in the middle of the road, or off > in a ditch somewhere, it scares me. SUV's outnumber all other > vehicles I've seen crashed in the last few years. Thankfully, > most of the crashes seemed to be loss of control while driving > too fast for conditions, no other cars involved. > > I got rear-ended in my cage a few weeks ago by an Isuzu Trooper, > (coincidentally, the type of accident I fear most while on my > bike, it still gives me shivers...). > He said he hydro planed into the back of me; the roads were wet, > but there wasn't any standing water. I think those wide-assed dirt > tires he had on there had something to do with it... > > Dale (the Horkster) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 3 16:54:50 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA22943; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 16:54:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA04488; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 16:54:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp2.erols.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA06595; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 16:54:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from default (spg-tnt2s18.erols.com [207.172.57.18]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA06049 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 16:54:29 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19971103165742.006f2680@pop.erols.com> X-Sender: cfagan@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 03 Nov 1997 16:57:42 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "Collin T. Fagan" Subject: Re: [2] Arrgh Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Ok, you've got me in suspense now....what was the problem Brian???? CT _________________________________________ Collin and Penny Fagan LTjg, U.S. Coast Guard (202) 366-0067 (work) (703) 356-4279 (home) (703) 816-7255 (pager) ICQ UIN: 435732 http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/5280/ (us, bikes, reptiles, and more) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 3 16:57:04 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA23014; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 16:57:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA04503; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 16:56:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp2.erols.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA06682; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 16:56:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from default (abr-as4s39.erols.com [207.172.152.166]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA06651 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 16:56:51 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199711032156.QAA06651@smtp2.erols.com> Reply-To: From: "Mr. Bill" To: Subject: Re: Slippity slip. Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 16:55:08 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit jay goddard writes: > would you believe when a SUV hits a Escort at 50 mph it kills the > people inside the car and the people in the truck walk away. I saw a report on the Tube recently on SUV's, and a lot of people are buying them for the real or perceived notion that they're safer than cars. Methinks they're becoming the next "Volvo", and we all know about *those* drivers... Cheers, -- Mr. Bill -- DoD #0224, UB #8, MS #2 denizen@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 3 18:21:01 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id SAA24247; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 18:21:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id SAA05892; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 18:19:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from mrin46.mail.aol.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id SAA08838; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 18:19:41 -0500 (EST) From: RDWOODJR@XXXXXX Received: (from root@localhost) by mrin46.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id SAA11029 for dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 18:19:01 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 18:19:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <971103172023_193107342@mrin46.mail.aol.com> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Slippity slip. In a message dated 97-11-03 14:32:37 EST, you write: << Moto content: has anyone commuted on a dualsport bike in the snow? Kirk >> Yes, on my 1975 Can Am 175TNT, on purpose. and I fell down . And on my GL1200i, by mistake, (didn't follow weather reports) from Fairfax to Upper Marlboro. I didn't fall, but now I have high blood pressure. Six inches of snow on the Beltway riding 1100 lbs of man and machine on 3 inches of tread contact can do that. And on my VF750S Sabre, by mistake, ditto above line. |8-O Richard From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 3 18:29:38 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id SAA24343; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 18:29:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id SAA05963; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 18:28:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from emout37.mail.aol.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id SAA09112; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 18:28:30 -0500 (EST) From: RDWOODJR@XXXXXX Received: (from root@localhost) by emout37.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id SAA23799 for dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 18:27:53 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 18:27:53 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <971103180333_1015034662@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX cc: RDWOODJR@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Slippity slip. In a message dated 97-11-03 16:12:32 EST, you write: ...one of the problems with SUV's are that people buy them without knowing either the limitations of the vehicle or their driving ability...just like motorcycles... Two thoughts: 1. We all know the rule for slipping and sliding on four wheels: When in doubt, jam on the brakes and steer for for a ditch or guard rail. This way inferiors are out of the roadway. 2. Converse the above. When in doubt on a bike, gas it and stay on the roadway. Not to mention the fact that, due to El Nino, we'll either have a very mild winter or a *really* bad one...has anyone heard the latest predictions on what this winter is supposed to be like in the D.C. area? Conventional *wisdom* reports this area gets warmer temps AND more precip. Can we say *lackluster* winter? Richard From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 3 18:37:18 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id SAA24458; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 18:37:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id SAA05996; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 18:36:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from dadc012.army.mil by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id SAA09268; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 18:36:11 -0500 (EST) Received: by Pentagon-DADC012.army.mil with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 18:36:39 -0500 Message-ID: <915E7359243FD011ACF30000F822DEFA01DD92B3@Pentagon-DADC010.army.mil> From: "Dysart, Glenn B., Mr., IMCEN" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, Chris Norloff Subject: RE:Slippity slip. Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 18:38:07 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Well I gotta disagree with you just a little bit. I think 4WD's turn better in the snow (under acceleration only). At least the ones I have driven. Unlike a RWD or FWD car that will typically spin out (esp. RWD) the extra set of wheels pulling through a turn seems to help keep you where you are going. MC content: I used to ride my 1970 trail 90 in the snow and even sleet. There wasn't much stopping that thing. When my hands got cold I would remove my gloves and just wrap my hands around the engine. I stopped riding that bike after getting a no class "C" and an unregistered vehicle ticket by Fairfax's finest. Glenn Dysart DysarGB@XXXXXX 84 V30 Magna > >> Especially those 4-wheel-drive "sport-utility" (ha! ha!) vehicle > owners who > >> think 4WD gives them better traction when braking or turning. > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 3 18:42:04 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id SAA24501; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 18:42:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id SAA06066; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 18:41:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from emout32.mail.aol.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id SAA09405; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 18:40:59 -0500 (EST) From: RDWOODJR@XXXXXX Received: (from root@localhost) by emout32.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id SAA07631 for dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 18:40:22 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 18:40:22 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <971103174931_1446770846@emout02.mail.aol.com> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: winter riding... In a message dated 97-11-03 15:58:56 EST, you write: <> Snow! When I was a kid we didn't have "snow". The earth was tropical and overun by large reptiles. Richard From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 3 19:45:22 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id TAA00565; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 19:45:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id TAA06716; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 19:45:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from mtigwc05.worldnet.att.net by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id TAA10817; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 19:45:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from default ([12.68.76.69]) by mtigwc05.worldnet.att.net (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA20852; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 00:44:37 +0000 Reply-To: From: "kevin thomas" To: "Chris Norloff" Cc: "dc-cycles" Subject: Re: Slippity slip. Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 19:42:10 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19971104004436.AAA20852@default> Chris- You're right, this whole thing is getting old. Let's straighten it out. My 87 VFR has Metzeler ME33 and ME55 tires, less than a year old, with less than 4000 miles (and produced less than 2 years ago, says the DOT #) inflated to the stock Honda pressures, in good condition. The bike has nearly 30000 miles and is stock in all respects that relate to traction. It is in good condition. When I say I slipped on a road line, I don't mean a lurid slide, just a 1 or 2 inch movement while changing lanes. I was probably going no more than 70, making a totally normal lane change in a mild turn. My point does not necessarily disagree with yours. Mine is that I am not riding unusually fast. I am not turning unusually hard. I am not accelerating irresponsibly. It is cold out and my tires do not have the traction that they did when it was warm out. Yes, I do have less traction reserves to use for emergencies. So do you. You just don't know it. Maybe I am riding a bit harder than you; I don't know. I am not riding in an unusual, irresponsible, or antisocial way. This is not just on this bike. It is not just on these tires. I have experienced this on my 92 VFR with OEM-type Dunlop Sportmaxes. It wasn't as bad on that bike. I am not the only person I know who slides (a little) in normal riding in the cold. The slides I have had are not big or life-threatening. They are attention-getting, and I am trying to get everyone else's attention. Many of us are not aware that we have less traction for emergencies now than we had in July. That is all I'm trying to say. later Kevin He who says it cannot be done should not interrupt him who is doing it. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 3 19:46:39 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id TAA00594; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 19:46:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id TAA06732; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 19:46:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from mtigwc05.worldnet.att.net by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id TAA10850; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 19:46:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from default ([12.68.76.69]) by mtigwc05.worldnet.att.net (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA21706; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 00:46:01 +0000 Reply-To: From: "kevin thomas" To: , "Collin T. Fagan" Subject: Re: [2] Arrgh Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 19:43:35 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19971104004559.AAA21706@default> Brian's problem was his starter solenoid. No electricity would go thru it into the rest of the bike. He who says it cannot be done should not interrupt him who is doing it. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 3 20:36:49 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id UAA01028; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 20:36:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id UAA06954; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 20:36:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from mtigwc05.worldnet.att.net by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id UAA11632; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 20:36:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from default ([12.68.76.69]) by mtigwc05.worldnet.att.net (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA1131 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 01:36:09 +0000 Reply-To: From: "kevin thomas" To: "dc-cycles" Subject: come out, come out, whoever you are Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 20:33:42 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19971104013608.AAA1131@default> Hey, y'all-- Anita got me thinking...... that doesn't happen often! ;-) Anyway, there are about 150 of us on this list, but I bet 95% of the postings are from 30% of us. There are a lot of you who we've never heard from, and I'm not sure why. I know you have knowledge and experiences that will educate or entertain everybody, and I bet a lot of you have questions that you're reluctant to ask. That's Squeakers' fault. She's so mean.... :-D Really, though, the only dumb question is the one that doesn't get asked, and I think almost everyone here would agree. At least the 30% of us who speak up. So please say something. Later Kevin He who says it cannot be done should not interrupt him who is doing it. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 3 20:53:50 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id UAA01265; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 20:53:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id UAA07044; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 20:53:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from allison.clark.net by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id UAA11854; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 20:53:42 -0500 (EST) From: louis@XXXXXX Received: from clark.net (louis@XXXXXX [168.143.0.7]) by allison.clark.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA15588 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 20:53:41 -0500 (EST) Received: (from louis@localhost) by clark.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA10043 for dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 20:53:27 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199711040153.UAA10043@clark.net> Subject: Service plan... worth it? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX (DC-Cycles List) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 20:53:27 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <19971104013608.AAA1131@default> from "kevin thomas" at Nov 3, 97 08:33:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24alpha3] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Hey, y'all-- > > Anyway, there are about 150 of us on this list, but I bet 95% of the > postings are from 30% of us. There are a lot of you who we've never heard > from, and I'm not sure why. I usually try to stay away from the chit chat that sometimes goes on. Not that anything is wrong with it, but I don't want to burn the bandwidth when there is enough going on. I'll usually post when something happens and I either have a question, or have an answer. And actually I have a question now... I'm hoping pretty soon to get a new Kawasaki Concours. Now I'm an all thumbs kind of guy. I can do some very simple things on my Nighthawk (sorry to see it go), for example I can change the battery. However, I've never gotten into anything more complex like changing the oil or anything other fluids. Never synched carbs, and I'm still trying to figure out where are the float bowls, and how does one drain them. Cycle Sports has a plan where for $799, they will cover 3 years of scheduled service/maintance. Oil changes, adjustments, seals everything (except for airfilters). Eventually I would like to learn to do all of these kind of things for myself, but between school, work, and trying to have fun riding inbetween, I haven't had much time to actually try to learn yet. Plus after my 2 years experience, I really trust these guys (the Springfield location). Does $799 sound like a good price for three years worth of service? (They go by milage put on the bike for when to do the service, and I plan on continueing my current rate of 10,000+ per year) Thanks for any feedback, Louis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Louis Caplan | louis@XXXXXX Alexandria, VA | '84 Honda Nighthawk-S 700SC DoD #1754 | www.clark.net/pub/louis/cycle.htm From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 3 21:45:52 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id VAA01735; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 21:45:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id VAA07233; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 21:45:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from welchlink.welch.jhu.edu by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id VAA12607; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 21:45:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from HGREENS.adventisthealthcare.com (Pool-207-205-202-241.kop.grid.net [207.205.202.241]) by welchlink.welch.jhu.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA03108; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 21:43:58 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19971103214506.006a24d4@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: hggmd@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 03 Nov 1997 21:45:06 -0500 To: louis@XXXXXX From: "Harry G. Greenspun, M.D." Subject: Re: Service plan... worth it? Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX (DC-Cycles List) In-Reply-To: <199711040153.UAA10043@clark.net> References: <19971104013608.AAA1131@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:53 PM 11/3/97 -0500, louis@XXXXXX wrote: Does $799 sound like a good price for three years >worth of service? > Louis, The answer is maybe yes, maybe no. In general, the biggest problem with extended service warranties is that they are not from the manufacturer. Consequently, you may not be able to get service when and where you need it because not all Kawasaki dealers will honor it. Even worse, the dealer who sold it to you may decide next year not to participate anymore. Alternatively, with bike as expensive and complicated as a Concourse, service costs add up quickly, even for routine maintenance. I couldn't get my ZX-11 out of the shop for under $250 (probably because the first hour of service was removing the fairings!). Thus, the price may be worth it if the company holding the policy has a good record and lots of service sites (which will be vitally important if you're doing 10k/year on the bike, unless you only drive in circles around Springfield). Get more specs on the policy. Another option is that some policies let you sign up at the end of the original manufacturer's warranty, so you don't have to decide for another year. Harry Bethesda, MD '97 BMW R1100RT '93 Kawasaki ZX-11 (out of warranty) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 3 22:33:56 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA02194; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 22:33:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA07421; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 22:33:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from relay.mnsinc.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA13411; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 22:33:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from charlie.mnsinc.com (charlie.mnsinc.com [206.239.52.83]) by relay.mnsinc.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA02632 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 22:33:28 -0500 (EST) From: 2xracers@XXXXXX (Anita Lauro) To: "dc-cycles" Subject: Re: come out, come out, whoever you are Date: Tue, 04 Nov 1997 03:33:41 GMT Message-ID: <345f9407.101049691@relay.mnsinc.com> References: <19971104013608.AAA1131@default> In-Reply-To: <19971104013608.AAA1131@default> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 3 Nov 1997 20:33:42 -0500, wrote: >Hey, y'all-- > >Anita got me thinking...... that doesn't happen often! ;-) Yikes! I did that? I guess I've got to be more careful in the future!! :) >Really, though, the only dumb question is the one that doesn't get >asked, and I think almost everyone here would agree. At least the 30% = of >us who speak up. So please say something. =20 Well, I may not post often to dc-cycles, but I have always been pleasantly surprised by the great responses I've gotten! I'd probably post more if I actually *rode* more... which is something I intend to remedy this week (by buying a Nighthawk 750). Then I'll have all sorts of questions...=20 Okay, here's one.... my XT350 has a kickstarter only, so I'm happy to be moving up to an electric starter. How long do you have to ride to keep the battery fully charged? I plan on riding to work at least on =46ridays (casual day!), and my commute is probably 15-20 minutes each way. Will this keep the battery up to snuff?=20 BTW, in case anyone is wondering my email address of "2xracers" is not in any way related to motorcycle racing... I have two retired racing greyhounds. For the curious, Daisy and Vicky have a web page at www.mnsinc.com/2xracers. Maybe they'll let me put up a picture of my new bike! :) Anita From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 4 00:26:20 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id AAA03543; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 00:26:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id AAA08809; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 00:26:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from pafosu1.hq.af.mil by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id AAA15177; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 00:26:05 -0500 (EST) Received: (from gnissley@localhost) by pafosu1.hq.af.mil (8.6.12/8.6.12) id AAA28765; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 00:21:45 -0500 Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 00:17:05 +45722824 (EDT) From: "Gil M. Nissley" Subject: Re: Slippity slip. To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In-Reply-To: <199711030544.AAA23238@clark.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 3 Nov 1997, Dark Hacker wrote: > From: "Gil M. Nissley" > Subject: Re: Slippity slip. > BTW,we all know the smartest service is the Air Force.We send > the _officers_ in to fight! > Naw, the Air Force sends cruise missles in to fight. The Marines send > in fists. "Launch your fist at that hill soldier!" Yar,right.I want to see you go up to a Marine and call him 'soldier' (you would be implying he was in the Army). I'll watch from a distance w/the video camera. The official BuellBoy Genes model. gnissley@XXXXXX GATB#1121 HSB#38DT Buell S1 Lightning "The Pretty Hate Machine" From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 4 00:34:11 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id AAA03587; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 00:34:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id AAA08994; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 00:34:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from pafosu1.hq.af.mil by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id AAA15300; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 00:34:05 -0500 (EST) Received: (from gnissley@localhost) by pafosu1.hq.af.mil (8.6.12/8.6.12) id AAA28782; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 00:29:45 -0500 Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 00:22:41 +45722824 (EDT) From: "Gil M. Nissley" Subject: Re: winter riding... To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In-Reply-To: <9711038785.AA878590080@smtplink.micros.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 3 Nov 1997, Brian McCoy wrote: > Do I hear a 'when I was a kid' story coming on?..... *grin* Ok,I'll bite. When I was a kid one of the fun things I did in the snow was to get a 'sleigh ride' from my dad.He'd hitch up my sled to one of his dirtbikes with rope,then drag me along through the snow.It was fun until he decided to do a high-G turn;barrel rolls on a sled tend to suck. :-} Next. The official BuellBoy Genes model. gnissley@XXXXXX GATB#1121 HSB#38DT Buell S1 Lightning "The Pretty Hate Machine" From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 4 00:47:00 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id AAA03663; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 00:46:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id AAA09101; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 00:46:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id AAA15465; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 00:46:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from default ([12.68.75.115]) by mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA3269; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 05:46:20 +0000 Reply-To: From: "kevin thomas" To: , "DC-Cycles List" Subject: Re: Service plan... worth it? Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 00:43:51 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19971104054619.AAA3269@default> Louis-- I guess you need to find out what the service would cost when bought the traditional way. Look for loopholes in the fine print. One possible loophole: my owners manual (87 VFR) says to "inspect" the carb synch and adjust "if necesary". So what's covered in this plan, inspecting or adjusting? Get out your financial calculator and figure the time value of this money. In other words, getting a dollar today is worth more than getting a dollar next week. How would you invest that money if you didn't give it to the shop? Is this contract transferrable if you sell the bike? Any chance you'll leave the area in the next 3 years? Any chance of the shop going out of business? If it passes tests like these, it sounds like a neat idea. Good luck with it. Kevin He who says it cannot be done should not interrupt him who is doing it. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 4 00:57:03 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id AAA03765; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 00:57:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id AAA09159; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 00:56:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id AAA15600; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 00:56:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from default ([12.68.75.115]) by mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA7779; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 05:56:12 +0000 Reply-To: From: "kevin thomas" To: "Anita Lauro" <2xracers@XXXXXX> Cc: "dc-cycles" Subject: battery charge Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 00:53:45 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19971104055610.AAA7779@default> Anita-- Thinking occasionally keeps my brain cells from dying of boredom! I'd think your plan should keep the battery up. I used to have a very short commute, maybe 2 miles. Should have walked.... Anyway, I rode my 73 CB750 almost every day, and went out to lunch and rode whenever possible in the evening and weekends with no battery problems. So I did more charging than you might, but your alternator is much better than mine. That's my best guess. Now I ride 20 miles each way most days, plus lunch, plus all the riding I can manage, so my batteries last forever. The one in my ex-92 VFR is original. The one in my 87 VFR is at least 3 years old. See ya Kevin He who says it cannot be done should not interrupt him who is doing it. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 4 01:00:22 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id BAA03828; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 01:00:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id BAA09199; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 01:00:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from pafosu1.hq.af.mil by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id BAA15638; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 01:00:13 -0500 (EST) Received: (from gnissley@localhost) by pafosu1.hq.af.mil (8.6.12/8.6.12) id AAA28870; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 00:55:00 -0500 Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 00:34:00 +45722824 (EDT) From: "Gil M. Nissley" Subject: Re: Service plan... worth it? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In-Reply-To: <199711040153.UAA10043@clark.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Depends on what kind of maintenance your bike needs.What kind of adjusters do the Connie's valves have?If they aren't self adjusting (ie,hydralic like your Nighthawk S) and need to be done a couple times w/in 30k miles,I'd say go for it.Valve adjustments are where most of the expenses come in for dealer service because of the time it takes to get to them and then check them all.If the valves are self adjusting,all that's left is basically fluids,filters and plugs.None of them are really that hard,and you'd save a bundle doing it yourself. Check the bike's owners manual and what you'll have to do to it.Then compare what it will cost to the cost of the service plan and make your decision. The official BuellBoy Genes model. gnissley@XXXXXX GATB#1121 HSB#38DT Buell S1 Lightning "The Pretty Hate Machine" From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 4 01:23:10 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id BAA04043; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 01:23:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from ringding.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id BAA09667; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 01:22:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from mtolympus.ari.net by ringding.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id BAA25565; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 01:22:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (bee@localhost) by mtolympus.ari.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id BAA05265; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 01:22:15 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 01:22:15 -0500 (EST) From: "Brian E. Ewell" To: kevin thomas cc: dc-cycles Subject: Re: come out, come out, whoever you are In-Reply-To: <19971104013608.AAA1131@default> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 3 Nov 1997, kevin thomas wrote: > Hey, y'all-- > > Anita got me thinking...... that doesn't happen often! ;-) > > Anyway, there are about 150 of us on this list, but I bet 95% of the > postings are from 30% of us. There are a lot of you who we've never heard > from, and I'm not sure why. I know you have knowledge and experiences that > will educate or entertain everybody, and I bet a lot of you have questions > that you're reluctant to ask. That's Squeakers' fault. She's so mean.... > :-D Really, though, the only dumb question is the one that doesn't get > asked, and I think almost everyone here would agree. At least the 30% of > us who speak up. So please say something. something. (you did know that was coming didn't ya!) Okay, I'll throw out a question. In the last month I've had the fork seals replaced on my bike twice ('85 Honda VF700C Magna), the second time after one went after less than 200 miles. The same one has gone again, and I'll be contacting the dealer/repair shop (Heyser Cycles in Laurel) again tomorrow. I wouldn't take it back there, based on the work they've done so far, but feel I need to give them another chance to get it right. Questions are, is there any reason to think they'll do it right this time, and is there any reason they shouldn't have gotten it right the first (or second) time. I wouldn't expect that a (relatively) high maintenance item like fork seals would require some special expertise. Am I wrong? I've taken care of basics like oil/spark plug changes myself, but haven't tackled fork seals. Any thoughts? Thanks, Brian. bee@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 4 02:27:25 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id CAA04513; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 02:27:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id CAA09871; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 02:27:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from pafosu1.hq.af.mil by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id CAA16581; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 02:27:15 -0500 (EST) Received: (from gnissley@localhost) by pafosu1.hq.af.mil (8.6.12/8.6.12) id CAA00111; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 02:22:53 -0500 Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 02:07:43 +45722824 (EDT) From: "Gil M. Nissley" Subject: Re: come out, come out, whoever you are To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 4 Nov 1997, Brian E. Ewell wrote: > Okay, I'll throw out a question. In the last month I've had the fork > seals replaced on my bike twice ('85 Honda VF700C Magna), the second time > after one went after less than 200 miles. The same one has gone again, > and I'll be contacting the dealer/repair shop (Heyser Cycles in Laurel) > again tomorrow. I wouldn't take it back there, based on the work they've > done so far, but feel I need to give them another chance to get it right. > Questions are, is there any reason to think they'll do it right this time, > and is there any reason they shouldn't have gotten it right the first (or > second) time. The reason the seals failed the second time is prolly because the fork sliders are damaged(small nicks and such).The shop probably didn't bother to check and just swapped out seals they thought were worn from age. Check around your sliders(especially in the front) in the area of fork travel to see if you can find any damage.Even if you don't,bring this point up to shop and have them check.They could've just installed them wrong,but I'd be willing to bet they just didn't do a thorough job. The official BuellBoy Genes model. gnissley@XXXXXX GATB#1121 HSB#38DT Buell S1 Lightning "The Pretty Hate Machine" From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 4 07:25:55 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id HAA06479; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 07:25:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id HAA11148; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 07:25:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.clark.net by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id HAA20004; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 07:25:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from clark.net (louis@XXXXXX [168.143.0.7]) by mail.clark.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA27498; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 07:24:40 -0500 (EST) From: "Louis F. Caplan" Received: (from louis@localhost) by clark.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA06059; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 07:24:40 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199711041224.HAA06059@clark.net> Subject: Re: come out, come out, whoever you are To: 2xracers@XXXXXX (Anita Lauro) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 07:24:40 -0500 (EST) Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX (DC-Cycles List) In-Reply-To: <345f9407.101049691@relay.mnsinc.com> from "Anita Lauro" at Nov 4, 97 03:33:41 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24alpha3] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Okay, here's one.... my XT350 has a kickstarter only, so I'm happy to > be moving up to an electric starter. How long do you have to ride to > keep the battery fully charged? I plan on riding to work at least on > Fridays (casual day!), and my commute is probably 15-20 minutes each > way. Will this keep the battery up to snuff? I commute about 10-15 miles (maybe 20 minutes) and the battery has been fine. Just remeber to check water level! (Learned the hard way). Actually the one other time I killed my battery was during a motorcycle rodeo. After each event I would turn the bike off and find out what the next event was. So it would be on for about 5 minutes, go less than .2 miles maybe, then turned off. Done about 7 times in a row. Then when I packed up to leave, guess what... that's when it died on me. Luckily, since it was an ABATE event, there was someone there to help me out (even though I had to wait until after the tug-of-war for the help). That's when I learned you can jump a bike from a car/truck, just make sure the car/truck is turned off. Louis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Louis Caplan | louis@XXXXXX Alexandria, VA | '84 Honda Nighthawk-S 700SC DoD #1754 | www.clark.net/pub/louis/cycle.htm From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 4 08:19:48 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id IAA06878; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 08:19:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id IAA11346; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 08:19:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.clark.net by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id IAA20725; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 08:19:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from clark.net (louis@XXXXXX [168.143.0.7]) by mail.clark.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA11388; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 08:19:40 -0500 (EST) From: "Louis F. Caplan" Received: (from louis@localhost) by clark.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA03029; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 08:19:39 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199711041319.IAA03029@clark.net> Subject: Short distance commutes To: 2xracers@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 08:19:39 -0500 (EST) Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX (DC-Cycles List) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24alpha3] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Forwarded message: > > Okay, here's one.... my XT350 has a kickstarter only, so I'm happy to > > be moving up to an electric starter. How long do you have to ride to > > keep the battery fully charged? I plan on riding to work at least on > > Fridays (casual day!), and my commute is probably 15-20 minutes each > > way. Will this keep the battery up to snuff? > > I commute about 10-15 miles (maybe 20 minutes) and the battery has been > fine. Just remeber to check water level! (Learned the hard way). One thing I forgot to mention is you also need to keep an eye on the spark plugs. The shorter commutes means that the plugs don't get up to their top temperature, and the carbon doesn't all burn away. Thus you can get carbon build up more rapidly. The mechanic I went to said I needed to extend my commute (or change spark plugs more often). Hey, any excuse to take the long road! "Sorry I'm late, my mechanic said to take the long way." :-) Louis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Louis Caplan | louis@XXXXXX Alexandria, VA | '84 Honda Nighthawk-S 700SC DoD #1754 | www.clark.net/pub/louis/cycle.htm From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 4 08:51:02 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id IAA07344; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 08:51:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id IAA11920; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 08:50:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from quimby by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id IAA21561; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 08:50:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from jil-c_norloff by quimby.toward.com (IBM OS/2 SENDMAIL VERSION 2.01/2.0) for ; id IAA533.41; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 08:49:23 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19971104065747.00987aa0@204.194.180.21> X-Sender: cnorloff@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 04 Nov 1997 06:57:47 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Chris Norloff Subject: Re: El Nino [was: Slippity slip. In-Reply-To: <199711032057.AA04153@egate2.citicorp.com> References: <345E342E.7E46@mci.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >oh great...now we have even MORE people out there that can't drive what >they're sitting on/in! > >Not to mention the fact that, due to El Nino, we'll either have a very >mild winter or a *really* bad one...has anyone heard the latest predictions >on what this winter is supposed to be like in the D.C. area? I heard that we're supposed to have a mild winter -- warmer and dryer than typical. Sure hope so! Chris Norloff From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 4 08:51:33 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id IAA07357; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 08:51:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id IAA11944; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 08:51:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from quimby by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id IAA21571; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 08:51:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from jil-c_norloff by quimby.toward.com (IBM OS/2 SENDMAIL VERSION 2.01/2.0) id IAB533.41; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 08:49:53 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19971104070802.009879e0@204.194.180.21> X-Sender: cnorloff@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 04 Nov 1997 07:08:02 -0500 To: , "dc-cycles" From: Chris Norloff Subject: Re: Slippity slip. In-Reply-To: <19971104004436.AAA20852@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 07:42 PM 11/3/97 -0500, kevin thomas wrote: >Chris- > >You're right, this whole thing is getting old. ... >When I say I slipped on a road line, I don't mean a lurid slide, just a 1 >or 2 inch movement while changing lanes. I was probably going no more than >70, making a totally normal lane change in a mild turn. > >My point does not necessarily disagree with yours. Mine is that I am not >riding unusually fast. I am not turning unusually hard. I am not >accelerating irresponsibly. It is cold out and my tires do not have the >traction that they did when it was warm out. Yes, I do have less traction >reserves to use for emergencies. So do you. You just don't know it. >Maybe I am riding a bit harder than you; I don't know. I am not riding in >an unusual, irresponsible, or antisocial way. Agreed. I was wondering if we were getting more polarized than intended. I was think about this as I changed lanes during a turn coming into work this morning, crossing over a white line. I got the expected little slip or increase in slip angle (whatever). I experience those with painted lines, the dreaded plastic pavement markings, and metal expansion joints in overpasses (common in DC). This was after riding about 9 miles at traffic speeds (60-65 mph on Rt. 66), then 30-40 mph in town. I would expect more slippage with either warm or cold tires, but how long to you figure it takes to warm up a regular street tire? Chris Norloff From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 4 09:14:37 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA07589; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 09:14:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA12716; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 09:14:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp2.erols.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA22018; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 09:14:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from squeakers (frd-as1s54.erols.com [207.172.110.54]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA13468; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 09:14:22 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <19