From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Nov 1 10:01:05 2003 From: "rich hall" To: Robert.Verde@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Motorcycle shop comments? Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 10:00:54 -0500 Seems on topic to me. I've used Crossroads a few times. They seem to do a good job, but don't seem to be in a rush. Had a bike in there for way too long in my opinion once. For oil filters I found Coleman's was slightly cheaper. Maybe Crossroads woulda thrown in the ring though. Now to highjack the thread, is it me or is Coleman's getting better? They seem to be organizing rides, teamed up w/ Grevey's for 2 Wheel Tueday (back when it was all night). Having sales days. Seems like they want to be THE local bike shop. >From: "Verde, Robert" >To: >Subject: Motorcycle shop comments? >Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 12:57:08 -0500 > >This is a little off-topic, perhaps, but... > >As a new resident of Arlington, I noticed that there seems to be motorcycle >shop near Bailey's Crossroads, off of Rt. 7. Sign on the side of the >building says something about "scooters?" Anyone know about this place? >I'm looking for a decent local (roughly Seven Corners) shop to get oil, >filters, and miscellaneous parts, and although I seem to only spot this >place when it's closed, it is close to my apartment. _________________________________________________________________ Surf and talk on the phone at the same time with broadband Internet access. Get high-speed for as low as $29.95/month (depending on the local service providers in your area). https://broadband.msn.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Nov 1 10:05:44 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: "DCCycles" Subject: Re: parking ticket in DC Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 10:05:07 -0500 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec7906d41d5e6ae466f9d31d6afc91e756b2350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c > damn it, I got a parking ticket in DC... but I have a case this time, I did > put in the money but the meter said "FAIL". But, when the parking > enforcement officer came around it turned to be "Expired"... > > I'm thinking about denying this ticket and do the "Mail Hearing" thing since > I don't have time during the day. > OK, my English sucks... does the below letter look OK? [Dave] Your letter is good, and were you dealing with a reasonable person, or a business which depended on customer service, you'd have a chance. DC and similar governments only want your money. MANY, many, many news articles on ALL the local networks have exposed the DC parking enforcement scam that you've experienced. About every 18 months, a news station 'exposes' the DC parking scam as a driver no win situation, and nothing is ever done about it. The traffic adjudication board has a 99% or 98% conviction rate... Does that put it in perspective? You have 3 choices. 1: Pay it 2: Fight it. 3: Ignore it. I refused to pay DC one fucking dime, and they (under extreme pressure and duress from several members of congress, and local news, instituted the 'traffic amnesty', effectively erasing my 10 year old tickets. I say, fuck them. If they want my money, they should come and take it. That however, is my personal choice. If I had to commute to DC on regular basis, I'd pay it. It just isn't worth the fight. If it were a non photo speeding ticket, with future financial implications, then I would suggest fighting it. The only real issue with DC parking tickets is that they will attempt to collect from you in out of state circumstances. They give you some ridiculously short time to pay, like 10 days, and then turn the issue over to a collection agency... If you are caught, subsequent to this, they'll boot you... You definitely NEVER want a vehicle that is worth money to be towed in DC, they have the least regulated towing industry in the US, and vehicles are routinely stolen, lost or damaged being towed. MPD officers have been arrested and convicted for auto theft as part of this scam also, a couple of years back. There's no points, no insurance surcharge... How much is your time and aggravation worth? Pay it, be done with it, carry a hammer so you can disable the parking meters when you park at them... HTH > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > To whom it may concern, > > I have received a parking ticket as of Friday 10/31/2003 on 1800 Block > Jefferson PL North Side, Meter # JEFF1811NW, Citation # 313003305. I am > denying this ticket since I have indeed made a payment but the meter failed > to respond and displayed )B“FAIL”. However, it seems like when the parking > enforcement officer came over the meter turned in to be )B“expired”. > > I have found these parking meters to be extremely unreliable. I have had > numerous time meters not responding to the payment I inserted. Also, please > reconsider having parking meter for motorcycles on Jefferson PL NW. There > were no meters on this location before and other places around DC do not > have them. It is unfair especially with these unreliable meters. > > Thank you > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > --------------------- > Shigeru Honda > 98 SuperHawk (Street) > 99 750 SS (Track #881) > 02 MZ Skorpion Tour (New Toy) > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Nov 1 10:08:58 2003 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: parking ticket in DC Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 09:57:31 -0500 Used to park at the meters at Vermont and 16th, damn things gave me "FAIL" all the time. Found they didn't seem to like nickels or dimes, wasted a lot of quarters there too. Shigeru, thought you parked over on M St w/ me? Rich '02 SVS silver >From: "Shigeru Honda" >To: "dc-cycles" >Subject: parking ticket in DC >Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:42:19 -0500 > >damn it, I got a parking ticket in DC... but I have a case this time, I did >put in the money but the meter said "FAIL". But, when the parking >enforcement officer came around it turned to be "Expired"... _________________________________________________________________ Concerned that messages may bounce because your Hotmail account has exceeded its 2MB storage limit? Get Hotmail Extra Storage! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Nov 1 16:02:13 2003 Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 13:02:04 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Post "Nation in Brief" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Man Asks to be Executed Panama City, Fla. - A man accused of deliberately ramming a stolen pickup into six members of the Outlaws motorcycle gang, killing two, apologized from jail and said he wants to be executed. "I did it," Timothy Pilgreen told the Panama City News Herald. "I wish I hadn't, but I did. My lawyer told me to keep my mouth shut, but I gotta say it, I just got to: I'm sorry." Pilgreen, 26, said he will ask for the death penalty because he fears retribution from the gang after admitting he ran over the bikers Wednesday as they road on a coastal highway in Panama City Beach. Pilgreen is jailed without bond on two counts of murder, four counts of attempted murder and other felony charges stemming from a scuffle with an officer who chased and arrested him. Police said the six bikers were from the Outlaws chapter in Bay City, Mich. Nola Zietler, 47, of Bay City and Donald Dunham, 61, of Brethren, Mich., were killed. Another biker, Larry Berryman, 57, of St. Ignace, Mich., was hospitalized in critical condition Friday. Deputy Police Chief David Humphreys said he has seen more bikers in town since the incident. "It's our hope that they would allow this to be handled by law envorcement and the judicial system instead of it getting to a street-level thing," he said. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Nov 1 18:18:51 2003 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Free time this afternoon Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 18:18:43 -0500 Too much information. >From: Carl Schelin >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Free time this afternoon >Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:57:36 -0800 (PST) > >And it's Rita and my three year anniversary today so I'll be a little busy >later. Have a good weekend ;-) _________________________________________________________________ Add MSN 8 Internet Software to your current Internet access and enjoy patented spam control and more. Get two months FREE! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/byoa From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Nov 1 21:29:22 2003 Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 18:29:15 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Free time this afternoon To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Carl Schelin wrote: >And it's Rita and my three year anniversary today so I'll > be a little busy later. Have a good weekend ;-) Let's see if I can remember that far back in my first marriage........ah, yes. "Busy". That probably means Rita and Carl will be shopping -- separately. 8;) -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Nov 1 21:34:25 2003 Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 18:34:17 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Bikes and pool... To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Let's see, we've already started a furor with OT posts concerning poker (thanks for coming, Fish -- next game 20 November for anyone else interested), so how about pool/billiards? Any pool shooters, especially one-pocket, among the dc denizens? And on-topic, has anyone found a safe and reliable way to carry pool cues on a bike? None of my cue cases have a strap either solid enough or long enough to get over my riding gear, or solid enough metal anchor points to use a third-party strap. Any ideas? Thanks -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 2 07:52:03 2003 Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 04:51:25 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Free time this afternoon To: Sean Jordan , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Sean Jordan wrote: > Gimer wrote: > >ah, yes.... the "team jordan racing in the news" thread. > >-- > >tg (w/ warm and fuzzy feeling) > > > After reading Carl's post, then Tom's, I sat there and > went "Hrnh?" > > Then I clicked on the links.... > > 1 Team Jordan Racing in the news! 76 0.84 % > > 2 Team Jordan Racing in the news! 76 0.28 % > > > Most successful subject: > > Subject : Team Jordan Racing in the news! > No. of msgs: 76 > Total size : 116299 bytes > > > I must have a memory gap.....what caused such a twitter > about that subject? you created and posted to the list a fake news article about yourself -- a "death-defying" dickhead; a decent flamefest erupted and subsided; and then the resulting group hug abruptly ended when somebody got a chubby. -- tg __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 2 08:16:13 2003 Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 05:16:04 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: mileage (was: Re: Thoughts? Ideas? Recommendations?) To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Carl Schelin wrote: > I knew that :-) > > The problem is that 12 to 13k (or 7.5k) isn't totally VA > and WVA mountain > roads. Deals Gap was 1400 miles but very few of those > miles were spent in > the twisties. then you went the wrong way. next time, try this: 647-641-211-skyline-brp-322-28-129. 90+% twisties. if you don't want to pay the skyline park fee, take 230-231-810-250 to the brp. also very enjoyable. > Hell, of the 6,810.6 miles I went in Aug most of them > were straight "lock > the cruise control and kick back" miles. again, your choice. you might invest some time in routing software/gps. i also notice that 25% of your total mileage for the past two years was logged in one month. scooter and his nutsack may have company. ;) > I'm just being general. Riding in rush hour (like on Rt > 28, not HOV) are > some tough miles. Riding in HOV is fun; traffic generally > being light. > Riding in the countryside and then the twisties is great > fun. They're all > on the bike(s). Good job. Keep it up. you too. and now that you've got the gixxer you're probably learning that sport tires need to be ridden in a variety of terrain, or they become junk (flat spotted) quite quickly.... my main problem is that it takes 50 miles of straight slab on 66 to get to our regular ride meeting spot. > --- Tom Gimer wrote: > > i meant i don't commute on it. > > > > i haven't seen scooter's nutsack, but 12-13k miles of > va > > and wva mountain roads per year is plenty for this one. ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 2 10:48:47 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 10:48:31 EST Subject: Re: Minor and Major. To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 10/29/2003 9:30:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, bhuson@XXXXXX writes: > Wierd, since I can't recall any locality banning tire chains... Florida. Not that I let that stop me when I drove down onto an ice sheet on I-75 one Christmas Like a cop without chains could have caught me! John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 2 11:45:21 2003 Reply-To: "S. Russell" From: "S. Russell" To: Subject: Morning ride, cagers suck Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 11:44:02 -0500 Alright, decided to put some mileage on the bike this weekend, since it was such a nice day. Went over to a friends house last night and ended up staying in Alexandria. Left early this morning, decided to ride Mt. Vernon, very nice ride and very crisp and cool morning air. Cut back through Alexandria, headed towards the GW Parkway/National Airport, speed limit 40. Since I am enjoying the sights of the trees/morning joggers/bike riders I decide to keep it around the limit. Hit the boat dock area heading towards National Airport, now cagers everywhere doing around 50 - 70 mph. Look back cause I notice one a little too close, BMW with wife and kid in the car, hey he is not going to slow down. As I begin to gun it out of the way he decides to tap my back wheel cause I am not going fast enough, luckily I ride it out and speed up out of his way. Once I move he guns it back to 70 and gives me a "we are number one" sign. At my work I drive a cage full time but I am getting sick of impatient cagers who have no regards for anyones life but themselves. I wish I could have gotten his tag but didn't get it. I don't see why todays society can't just take their time and enjoy life instead of the "hurry up and wait" syndrome that is plagueing us all. This is going to get someone killed and I hope it is not me. Scott Russell 1984 Honda CB700SC Nighthawk From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 2 12:59:23 2003 Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 09:59:20 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Morning ride, cagers suck To: "S. Russell" Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- "S. Russell" wrote: > As I begin to gun it > out of the way he decides to tap my back wheel cause I am > not going fast > enough, luckily I ride it out and speed up out of his way. > Once I move he > guns it back to 70 and gives me a "we are number one" sign. Sounds like either aggravated assault or attempted murder to me. I hope you reported the incident to the Alexandria police with as good a description as you could give. If you didn't, please do so. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 2 15:19:34 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: "DCCycles" Subject: Re: Morning ride, cagers suck Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 15:18:39 -0500 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79ed923ce17c447a0ddc74cdf6af168f5f350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c > As I begin to gun it out of the way he decides to tap my back wheel > cause I am not going fast enough, luckily I ride it out and speed up out of his way. [Dave] He actually hit you ? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 2 15:25:26 2003 Reply-To: "S. Russell" From: "S. Russell" To: "Dave Yates" , "DCCycles" Subject: Re: Morning ride, cagers suck Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 15:23:13 -0500 didn't really fish out but the wheel skidded a bit, just looked back to see him a bit too close. My pucker factor was a bit much too. Reported it to the U.S. Park Police which has jurisdiction, they will do "all they can" for it. Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Yates" To: "DCCycles" Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 3:18 PM Subject: Re: Morning ride, cagers suck > > As I begin to gun it out of the way he decides to tap my back wheel > > cause I am not going fast enough, luckily I ride it out and speed up out > of his way. > > [Dave] He actually hit you ? > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 2 17:34:37 2003 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Morning ride, cagers suck Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 17:25:13 -0500 He actually hit you? >From: "S. Russell" >Reply-To: "S. Russell" >To: "Dave Yates" , "DCCycles" >Subject: Re: Morning ride, cagers suck >Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 15:23:13 -0500 > >didn't really fish out but the wheel skidded a bit, just looked back to see >him a bit too close. My pucker factor was a bit much too. > >Reported it to the U.S. Park Police which has jurisdiction, they will do >"all they can" for it. > >Scott > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Dave Yates" >To: "DCCycles" >Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 3:18 PM >Subject: Re: Morning ride, cagers suck > > > > > As I begin to gun it out of the way he decides to tap my back wheel > > > cause I am not going fast enough, luckily I ride it out and speed up >out > > of his way. > > > > [Dave] He actually hit you ? > > > > _________________________________________________________________ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 2 18:42:32 2003 Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 15:42:28 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Free time this afternoon To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Hey. Watch where your mind is. We exchanged gifts and watched an interesting horror movie (The Fog). :-) Carl --- rich hall wrote: > Too much information. > > >From: Carl Schelin > >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > >Subject: Free time this afternoon > >Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:57:36 -0800 (PST) > > > >And it's Rita and my three year anniversary today so I'll be a little > busy > >later. Have a good weekend ;-) > > _________________________________________________________________ > Add MSN 8 Internet Software to your current Internet access and enjoy > patented spam control and more. Get two months FREE! > http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/byoa > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 2 18:53:53 2003 Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 15:53:51 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: mileage (was: Re: Thoughts? Ideas? Recommendations?) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Tom Gimer wrote: > --- Carl Schelin wrote: > > I knew that :-) > > > > The problem is that 12 to 13k (or 7.5k) isn't totally VA > > and WVA mountain > > roads. Deals Gap was 1400 miles but very few of those > > miles were spent in > > the twisties. > > then you went the wrong way. next time, try this: > 647-641-211-skyline-brp-322-28-129. 90+% twisties. > > if you don't want to pay the skyline park fee, take > 230-231-810-250 to the brp. also very enjoyable. > Actually my intention was to get to Deal's Gap and to add two states to my map. When I have more time I'll map out a twistier route. > > > > Hell, of the 6,810.6 miles I went in Aug most of them > > were straight "lock > > the cruise control and kick back" miles. > > again, your choice. you might invest some time in routing > software/gps. i also notice that 25% of your total mileage > for the past two years was logged in one month. scooter > and his nutsack may have company. ;) > I have some now and it seems to work pretty well. I've been paying attention to the GPS threads and will likely pick up one for my southern run next summer. > > > I'm just being general. Riding in rush hour (like on Rt > > 28, not HOV) are > > some tough miles. Riding in HOV is fun; traffic generally > > being light. > > Riding in the countryside and then the twisties is great > > fun. They're all > > on the bike(s). Good job. Keep it up. > > you too. and now that you've got the gixxer you're > probably learning that sport tires need to be ridden in a > variety of terrain, or they become junk (flat spotted) > quite quickly.... my main problem is that it takes 50 > miles of straight slab on 66 to get to our regular ride > meeting spot. > Yea, I noticed that. The tires do have a bit of a flat spot now. I changed the oil+filter, spark plugs and the air filter today. After a nice 90 minute run I have to say that it rides a bit smoother and I think the high idle has disappeared. More riding for that test though. The old plugs were cr9e's vs the cr9ek's I put in today. Perhaps there's an advantage between the hangman's bar vs the split bar --\ / \ i | | I | ----- ----- Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 2 19:42:54 2003 From: "Gary Foreman" To: Subject: Sunday Ride Report - Here's one for the books. Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 19:44:09 -0500 Well, the day started off a little rough. Me on my TLR and my cousin Keith on his GSXR-1K leave my house in Winchester at 10:30 and stop at the Mobil station across from the Harley dealer to top off. I pull in and comment as I dismount that I smell anti-freeze. Holy crap, my bike's pumping coolant all over the place. I look back and a trail as far as I can see up the road. I'm only a mile from the house. I tell Keith to finishing topping off and I'm going back to the house to asses the problem. Back tire is soaked. Take it nice and easy and keep an eye on the thermostat, coasting when I can, I get home and never break 200 on the temp gauge. I pull the bodywork and find out a hose clamp on the radiator that feeds to the cooler behind the oil filter has given up. Replaced the clamp, and I already had a gallon of coolant and water-wetter already mixed up. 30 minutes later we are on our way. We figure we'll do the 211 thing even though we know it will be thick with leaf lookers. We make a trip up the west side, and back over from the east side. We stop at the top for a little stretch and then head down the west side. We come up behind a pack of cruisers, and full dressers. All at once a rider on an old Gold Wing is having a problem. I look up and his passenger is hanging over the right side of the bike and the driver is holding their left leg trying to stop the bike and keep the passenger from falling off. The passenger is past the 90 deg angle almost touching the pipes. He comes to a stop (how I don't know) without dropping the bike or the rider. He's yelling for help. I'm still in the middle of 211. Keith's already off the side of the road. I yell for him to help the passenger and I try to get out of harms way. I run back and we get the passenger off the bike. She is having a seizure and totally out of it. When I see her lips turning purple I decide to call 911. When emergency answered I state we are on the west side of the mountain past at Sperryville and we need an ambulance, someone is having a seizure. The first question they asked me was "is this a motorcycle accident?" Who said anything about motorcycles? Uh, no I stated. A motorcycle passenger is having a seizure. They dispatch an ambulance. A few minutes later, the rider is recovering. She is sitting up, breathing okay, but a little out of it. Rather than stay and create more of a spectacle, Keith and I leave and head west. They had a pretty large crew there to handle it. We see the ambulance on route before we get to the bottom of the mountain. Guess the blown hose was so we'd be there, huh? Still scares the crap out of me when I think of having a passenger just fall off the bike. I still have to give kudos to the driver for getting stopped, holding the passenger, and not dropping the bike. He had to stall the bike since he could not grab the clutch. Now, to finish the day off, I get home and I usually run 3 miles a day. Having a problem with my toe hurting, so after 1.5 miles, I decide to call it quits. I get the bicycle out to finish my workout. I'm going through a dense finished neighborhood, and pumping along about 20mph. I see out the corner of my right eye a dog running up beside me. Damn, he's moving. Damn, he's big. Damn, he's a freaking DEER! He cuts right in front of me. When the hoofs hit the asphalt, his ass-end slides around and it sounds like the Clydesdales! He bolts between two houses and hops a fence. I think the deer have a contract out on me this year. I Came pretty close to hitting one coming down the straight at Summit Point track day a few weeks ago. Then I ran over one with my car a few weeks ago. Had enough meat hanging under my Accord to have a barbecue! Drive safe guys. I won't forget this day for a while. And what a great day it was. Oh, one more thing. We stopped at the Burger King in Luray. When we were leaving, the Gold-Wing stopped for gas with the rider looking a LOT better than we saw her earlier. I'm glad we got to see that she was okay. Gary From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 2 20:41:35 2003 Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 20:30:17 -0500 To: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Bikes and pool... At 06:34 PM 11/1/03 -0800, pltrgyst@XXXXXX wrote: >And on-topic, has anyone found a safe and reliable way to >carry pool cues on a bike? None of my cue cases have a strap >either solid enough or long enough to get over my riding >gear, or solid enough metal anchor points to use a >third-party strap. Any ideas? No luggage rack, I presume? Ok, how about strapping it to your back with bungee cords and/or clothesline? I'd prefer the bungee cords myself...they will let loose if you take a spill. You could mount a carrier to your bike permanently...make it out of PVC pipe for durability and cheapness. You can even make it lockable with a little work. I made such a beast for carrying my Aikido weapons on airplanes a few years back...I can send you pics if you want some ideas. I think the carrier cost me about $15 or so, looked like shit (less likely to be stollen! :^), and could probably be run over by my new bike without getting damaged. Drill some holes and you could attach it to your bike anywhere you've got clearance and a couple of bolts (rear fender supports, passenger peg and shock support, or with hose clamps to the frame or something? Or maybe you could get something from RAM to allow mounting it across your bars when needed, and easy removal when not? They seem to have mounts for damn near everything... :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 2 20:41:37 2003 Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 20:37:47 -0500 To: "S. Russell" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Morning ride, cagers suck At 11:44 AM 11/2/03 -0500, S. Russell wrote: >As I begin to gun it >out of the way he decides to tap my back wheel cause I am not going fast >enough, luckily I ride it out and speed up out of his way. Once I move he >guns it back to 70 and gives me a "we are number one" sign. You know, with an ass like that, I think I might have changed my plans and just followed him to whereever he was going, then dragged him from his car and beat him to a pulp. If he got wise and drove to a police station to complain about me following him, I'd have pressed charges for vehicular assault. I'd probably have regretted it later, but that sort of jerk/threat to my existence is something that just puts me over the edge in a hurry. >I don't see why todays society can't >just take their time and enjoy life instead of the "hurry up and wait" >syndrome that is plagueing us all. Because the average IQ is only 100? Given the population size, the median and average are about the same, meaning that half the people in the country are *below* 100 IQ. Keep that in mind and it explains all sorts of things... >This is going to get someone killed and I hope it is not me. I hope it isn't either of us! :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 2 20:51:25 2003 Reply-To: "S. Russell" From: "S. Russell" To: , "Mike Bartman" Subject: Re: Morning ride, cagers suck Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 20:50:23 -0500 I do agree with the IQ concept, but it is my opinion that if people would get off the cell phones (even go to hands free units) and worry about the road instead of what bread milk and toilet paper to get we would be better off. I don't think this would have pertained to this, but it pertains to a lot of cage vs motorcycle accidents. They could have been avoided if they would have that phone blindsiding their field of vision. Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Bartman" To: "S. Russell" ; Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 8:37 PM Subject: Re: Morning ride, cagers suck > At 11:44 AM 11/2/03 -0500, S. Russell wrote: > >As I begin to gun it > >out of the way he decides to tap my back wheel cause I am not going fast > >enough, luckily I ride it out and speed up out of his way. Once I move he > >guns it back to 70 and gives me a "we are number one" sign. > > You know, with an ass like that, I think I might have changed my plans and > just followed him to whereever he was going, then dragged him from his car > and beat him to a pulp. If he got wise and drove to a police station to > complain about me following him, I'd have pressed charges for vehicular > assault. > > I'd probably have regretted it later, but that sort of jerk/threat to my > existence is something that just puts me over the edge in a hurry. > > >I don't see why todays society can't > >just take their time and enjoy life instead of the "hurry up and wait" > >syndrome that is plagueing us all. > > Because the average IQ is only 100? Given the population size, the median > and average are about the same, meaning that half the people in the country > are *below* 100 IQ. Keep that in mind and it explains all sorts of things... > > >This is going to get someone killed and I hope it is not me. > > I hope it isn't either of us! :^) > > -- Mike B. > > **************************************************************************** > * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * > * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * > * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * > *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* > * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * > **************************************************************************** > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 2 20:52:22 2003 Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 21:06:15 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Pummeling cagers (was Morning ride, cagers suck) On Sun, 2 Nov 2003, Mike Bartman wrote: > You know, with an ass like that, I think I might have changed my plans and > just followed him to whereever he was going, then dragged him from his car > and beat him to a pulp. If he got wise and drove to a police station to > complain about me following him, I'd have pressed charges for vehicular > assault. > > I'd probably have regretted it later, but that sort of jerk/threat to my > existence is something that just puts me over the edge in a hurry. One of the guys on the 'Busa board was intentionally cut off 2x by a cabbie. He followed the cab through traffic and cornered him on a dead end street. The cab ran into the bike, knocking it over and sped away. The 'Busa rider chased him down and caught him in front of 3 cops. He punched through his driver's window and grabbed the guy... and then the cops were all over him. They wouldn't listen to his explanation and he was arrested for assault. He's now dealing with the legal ramifications of his actions. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 2 21:17:24 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: Re: Pummeling cagers (was Morning ride, cagers suck) Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 21:16:27 -0500 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79e13fbb909a28c9d581a53fc9d45fe80b350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c > > You know, with an ass like that, I think I might have changed my plans and > > just followed him to whereever he was going, ... > > One of the guys on the 'Busa board was intentionally cut off 2x by a > cabbie. He followed the cab through traffic and cornered him on a dead > end street. The cab ran into the bike, knocking it over and sped away. > The 'Busa rider chased him down and caught him in front of 3 cops. He > punched through his driver's window and grabbed the guy... and then the > cops were all over him. They wouldn't listen to his explanation and he > was arrested for assault. [Dave] Let this be an object lesson in not getting "caught in condition white". C.W. is a state of total unpreparedness. It's ok to tour, but on a moto, we have to be mindful of the idiots... And the deer who allegedly have contracts out on us. I've known this for years, but finally another lister has jumped on the bandwagon... Personally, I take great comfort and relaxation knowing where every cager is around me, whether they're drifting or gaining, crowding or just plodding along. Yes, I get surprised once in a while too, and when it happens, it jolts me right back to paranoia. Dave From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 2 21:47:00 2003 Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 18:46:56 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Free time this afternoon To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Carl Schelin wrote: > We ... watched an interesting horror movie (The Fog). Appropriate to the occasion! -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 2 21:54:22 2003 Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 18:54:12 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Bikes and pool... To: Mike Bartman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > No luggage rack, I presume? On the 919 yes, on the Aprilia no. Somehow I'm hesitant to trust >$2000 worth of cues to bungee cords. The 30 inch length across the rack wouldn't be a problem unless lane splitting, I guess. > Ok, how about strapping it to your back with bungee cords > and/or clothesline? That's probably where I'm headed -- probably have to fashion an extra long, extra sturdy strap and mount system. > You could mount a carrier to your bike permanently...make > it out of PVC pipe for durability and cheapness. > > Or maybe you could get something from RAM to allow mounting > it across your bars when needed... Don't think either of them would work for a 3x7 cue case (3 butts, 7 shafts, plus accessories), about 4.5" square in cross-section. Thanks for the suggestions. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 2 21:59:47 2003 Reply-To: "S. Russell" From: "S. Russell" To: , "Mike Bartman" , Subject: Re: Bikes and pool... Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 21:59:19 -0500 I might be talking stupid, but can't you get a soft case for the stick that secures around the body? Kind of like a backback, but that might get in the way if the situation arises. Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Mike Bartman" ; Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 9:54 PM Subject: Re: Bikes and pool... > --- Mike Bartman wrote: > > No luggage rack, I presume? > > On the 919 yes, on the Aprilia no. Somehow I'm hesitant to > trust >$2000 worth of cues to bungee cords. The 30 inch > length across the rack wouldn't be a problem unless lane > splitting, I guess. > > > Ok, how about strapping it to your back with bungee cords > > and/or clothesline? > > That's probably where I'm headed -- probably have to fashion > an extra long, extra sturdy strap and mount system. > > > You could mount a carrier to your bike permanently...make > > it out of PVC pipe for durability and cheapness. > > > > Or maybe you could get something from RAM to allow mounting > > it across your bars when needed... > > Don't think either of them would work for a 3x7 cue case (3 > butts, 7 shafts, plus accessories), about 4.5" square in > cross-section. > > Thanks for the suggestions. > > -- Larry > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears > http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 2 22:12:34 2003 Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 19:12:31 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Bikes and pool... To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX That's sort of where I'm headed. I have what's called a hard case for multiple cues, made of synthetic leather with hard foam tubes inside. The problem is that the straps on these things are quite short, meant for casually looping over one shoulder, not over the body -- and nowhere near long enough to go over one shoulder diagonally over my back, even without a Joe Rocket Ballistic jacket and armor on. Further, the existing short straps on such cases are either permanently stitched to the case or have loop arrangements on the ends which fit over the ends of the case. I have a backpack specifically designed to carry tennis racquets which works great on the bikes, but don't see anything comparable for pool cues. If I can't find an easy existing solution, I may discuss this further with Linda and see what she could create. Or get over my paranoia concerning bungee straps. 8;) Thanks again, all. -- Larry --- "S. Russell" wrote: > I might be talking stupid, but can't you get a soft case > for the stick that > secures around the body? Kind of like a backback, but that > might get in the > way if the situation arises. > > Scott > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Mike Bartman" ; > > Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 9:54 PM > Subject: Re: Bikes and pool... > > > > --- Mike Bartman wrote: > > > No luggage rack, I presume? > > > > On the 919 yes, on the Aprilia no. Somehow I'm hesitant > to > > trust >$2000 worth of cues to bungee cords. The 30 inch > > length across the rack wouldn't be a problem unless lane > > splitting, I guess. > > > > > Ok, how about strapping it to your back with bungee > cords > > > and/or clothesline? > > > > That's probably where I'm headed -- probably have to > fashion > > an extra long, extra sturdy strap and mount system. > > > > > You could mount a carrier to your bike > permanently...make > > > it out of PVC pipe for durability and cheapness. > > > > > > Or maybe you could get something from RAM to allow > mounting > > > it across your bars when needed... > > > > Don't think either of them would work for a 3x7 cue case > (3 > > butts, 7 shafts, plus accessories), about 4.5" square in > > cross-section. > > > > Thanks for the suggestions. > > > > -- Larry > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears > > http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ > > > > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 2 22:20:38 2003 Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 22:19:22 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Bikes and pool... "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" wrote: > That's sort of where I'm headed. I have what's called a hard > case for multiple cues, made of synthetic leather with hard > foam tubes inside. The problem is that the straps on these > things are quite short, meant for casually looping over one > shoulder, not over the body -- and nowhere near long enough > to go over one shoulder diagonally over my back, even without > a Joe Rocket Ballistic jacket and armor on. Further, the > existing short straps on such cases are either permanently > stitched to the case or have loop arrangements on the ends > which fit over the ends of the case. Whoops, I'm outta here. No way I'm playing pool with a guy who has SEVEN cuesticks! Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 2 22:23:11 2003 Reply-To: "S. Russell" From: "S. Russell" To: "William J. Huson" , Cc: Subject: Re: Bikes and pool... Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 22:22:41 -0500 With only seven sticks, how do you hit the eighth ball? Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: "William J. Huson" To: Cc: Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 10:19 PM Subject: Re: Bikes and pool... > "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" wrote: > > > That's sort of where I'm headed. I have what's called a hard > > case for multiple cues, made of synthetic leather with hard > > foam tubes inside. The problem is that the straps on these > > things are quite short, meant for casually looping over one > > shoulder, not over the body -- and nowhere near long enough > > to go over one shoulder diagonally over my back, even without > > a Joe Rocket Ballistic jacket and armor on. Further, the > > existing short straps on such cases are either permanently > > stitched to the case or have loop arrangements on the ends > > which fit over the ends of the case. > > Whoops, I'm outta here. No way I'm playing pool with a guy who has SEVEN > cuesticks! > > Bill > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 2 22:28:00 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: "Gary Foreman" , Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Sunday Ride Report - Here's one for the books. Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 22:28:37 -0500 > She is having a seizure and totally > out of it. When I see her lips turning purple I decide to call 911. > When emergency answered I state we are on the west side of the > mountain past at Sperryville and we need an ambulance, someone is > having a seizure. The first question they asked me was "is this a > motorcycle accident?" Who said anything about motorcycles? Uh, no I > stated. A motorcycle passenger is having a seizure. They dispatch > an ambulance. They asked if it's motorcycle related so they can chuck it up to how many motorcycle accidents they have a year. Maybe it's a funding thing? Maybe so they can get more officers assigned to the area? When I fell of my cycle and the police showed up they asked me 20 times if I had anything to drink (alcohol). I think even if I am not drunk or over the .08 limit but I still had a drink they mark it up as alcohol related. Hell some of the firefighters who showed up hoping to see something gruesome where pretty liquored up. Rob -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer ---------- Original Message ----------- From: "Gary Foreman" To: Sent: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 19:44:09 -0500 Subject: Sunday Ride Report - Here's one for the books. ------- End of Original Message ------- From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 2 22:33:59 2003 Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 19:33:55 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Bikes and pool...(and Aprilia Falco for sale) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX You break your favorite cue down and use just the butt? It's not really seven sticks, it's three sticks (butts) with seven shafts. A primary shooting cue, a break/jump cue, and a spare, each with two or more shafts with tips of differing hardness. They're somewhat like bikes -- they seem to proliferate of their own accord. If I owned *only* seven cues, my wife would be a much happier person. Hell, if the rec room had less than seven cue *cases* in it, she'd be ecstatic. Actually, I just sold a 1959 Willie Hoppe on eBay last night -- a major psychological breakthrough! In a major collision with reality 8;(, I even put the Aprilia up for sale, since I put a deposit down on a Multistrada... If anyone's interested in a gorgeous, like new 2001 Aprilia Falco with CF cans/chip ~128 hp, soft luggage, and ridiculously low mileage, contact me. -- Larry --- "S. Russell" wrote: > With only seven sticks, how do you hit the eighth ball? > > Scott > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "William J. Huson" > To: > Cc: > Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 10:19 PM > Subject: Re: Bikes and pool... > > > > "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" wrote: > > > > > That's sort of where I'm headed. I have what's called a > hard > > > case for multiple cues, made of synthetic leather with > hard > > > foam tubes inside. The problem is that the straps on > these > > > things are quite short, meant for casually looping over > one > > > shoulder, not over the body -- and nowhere near long > enough > > > to go over one shoulder diagonally over my back, even > without > > > a Joe Rocket Ballistic jacket and armor on. Further, > the > > > existing short straps on such cases are either > permanently > > > stitched to the case or have loop arrangements on the > ends > > > which fit over the ends of the case. > > > > Whoops, I'm outta here. No way I'm playing pool with a > guy who has SEVEN > > cuesticks! > > > > Bill > > > > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 2 22:35:18 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: "S. Russell" , , "Mike Bartman" Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Morning ride, cagers suck Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 22:35:23 -0500 I came from NY and they have the cell phones in cars law, where your required to use handfree. It's a PAIN in the A$$. I think having to mess with all that handfree and earphone stuff distracts you even more than no having it. Just wait till they start doing photo cell phone enforcement. :-O Wonder what the next photo enforcement issue will be? -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer ---------- Original Message ----------- From: "S. Russell" To: , "Mike Bartman" Sent: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 20:50:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Morning ride, cagers suck > I do agree with the IQ concept, but it is my opinion that if people would > get off the cell phones (even go to hands free units) and worry > about the road instead of what bread milk and toilet paper to get we > would be better off. I don't think this would have pertained to > this, but it pertains to a lot of cage vs motorcycle accidents. > They could have been avoided if they would have that phone > blindsiding their field of vision. > > Scott > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Bartman" > To: "S. Russell" ; > Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 8:37 PM > Subject: Re: Morning ride, cagers suck > > > At 11:44 AM 11/2/03 -0500, S. Russell wrote: > > >As I begin to gun it > > >out of the way he decides to tap my back wheel cause I am not going fast > > >enough, luckily I ride it out and speed up out of his way. Once I move > he > > >guns it back to 70 and gives me a "we are number one" sign. > > > > You know, with an ass like that, I think I might have changed my plans and > > just followed him to whereever he was going, then dragged him from his car > > and beat him to a pulp. If he got wise and drove to a police station to > > complain about me following him, I'd have pressed charges for vehicular > > assault. > > > > I'd probably have regretted it later, but that sort of jerk/threat to my > > existence is something that just puts me over the edge in a hurry. > > > > >I don't see why todays society can't > > >just take their time and enjoy life instead of the "hurry up and wait" > > >syndrome that is plagueing us all. > > > > Because the average IQ is only 100? Given the population size, the median > > and average are about the same, meaning that half the people in the > country > > are *below* 100 IQ. Keep that in mind and it explains all sorts of > things... > > > > >This is going to get someone killed and I hope it is not me. > > > > I hope it isn't either of us! :^) > > > > -- Mike B. > > > > > **************************************************************************** > > > * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated > * > > * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered > * > > * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated > * > > > *-------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------* > > * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! > * > > > **************************************************************************** > > > > ------- End of Original Message ------- From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 2 22:36:27 2003 Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 19:36:19 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Bikes and pool... To: "S. Russell" , "William J. Huson" Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX You don't. You play seven-ball. 8;) -- Larry --- "S. Russell" wrote: > With only seven sticks, how do you hit the eighth ball? > > Scott > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "William J. Huson" > To: > Cc: > Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 10:19 PM > Subject: Re: Bikes and pool... > > > > "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" wrote: > > > > > That's sort of where I'm headed. I have what's called a > hard > > > case for multiple cues, made of synthetic leather with > hard > > > foam tubes inside. The problem is that the straps on > these > > > things are quite short, meant for casually looping over > one > > > shoulder, not over the body -- and nowhere near long > enough > > > to go over one shoulder diagonally over my back, even > without > > > a Joe Rocket Ballistic jacket and armor on. Further, > the > > > existing short straps on such cases are either > permanently > > > stitched to the case or have loop arrangements on the > ends > > > which fit over the ends of the case. > > > > Whoops, I'm outta here. No way I'm playing pool with a > guy who has SEVEN > > cuesticks! > > > > Bill > > > > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 2 22:54:19 2003 Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 22:52:49 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: "S. Russell" CC: pltrgyst@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Bikes and pool... "S. Russell" wrote: > With only seven sticks, how do you hit the eighth ball? > > Scott Wait one, I've got it figured out. Larry has 3 butts and seven tips. One butt is the *breaker*, and for that he uses 3 tips which carefully crafted by the cue maker for soft, medium, or hard breaks. That leaves 2 butts and 4 tips. Butt A is for the solid color balls - even, and butt B for the stripers - odd. But what about the 4 tips, you query? Hey, everyone knows the rotation of the earth induces corolious(sp?) forces! Each tip is graded for a compass quadrant of the shot - NE, SE, SW, and NW. Simple... Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 2 22:57:59 2003 Reply-To: "S. Russell" From: "S. Russell" To: "William J. Huson" Cc: , Subject: Re: Bikes and pool... Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 22:57:46 -0500 God, after that I am going to need a drink. Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: "William J. Huson" To: "S. Russell" Cc: ; Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 10:52 PM Subject: Re: Bikes and pool... > "S. Russell" wrote: > > > With only seven sticks, how do you hit the eighth ball? > > > > Scott > > Wait one, I've got it figured out. Larry has 3 butts and seven tips. One > butt is the *breaker*, and for that he uses 3 tips which carefully crafted by > the cue maker for soft, medium, or hard breaks. That leaves 2 butts and 4 > tips. Butt A is for the solid color balls - even, and butt B for the stripers > - odd. But what about the 4 tips, you query? Hey, everyone knows the > rotation of the earth induces corolious(sp?) forces! Each tip is graded for > a compass quadrant of the shot - NE, SE, SW, and NW. Simple... > > Bill > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 2 22:58:33 2003 Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 22:57:23 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Bikes and pool...(and Aprilia Falco for sale) "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" wrote: > You break your favorite cue down and use just the butt? > > It's not really seven sticks, it's three sticks (butts) with > seven shafts. A primary shooting cue, a break/jump cue, and a > spare, each with two or more shafts with tips of differing > hardness. > > They're somewhat like bikes -- they seem to proliferate of > their own accord. If I owned *only* seven cues, my wife would > be a much happier person. Hell, if the rec room had less than > seven cue *cases* in it, she'd be ecstatic. > > Actually, I just sold a 1959 Willie Hoppe on eBay last night > -- a major psychological breakthrough! In a major collision > with reality 8;(, > > I even put the Aprilia up for sale, since I put a deposit > down on a Multistrada... > > If anyone's interested in a gorgeous, like new 2001 Aprilia > Falco with CF cans/chip ~128 hp, soft luggage, and > ridiculously low mileage, contact me. > > -- Larry Well, I looked at an Aprilla a month or so ago - an Aprilla Scooter. Methinks it is a kick-ass scooter, but alas - PURPLE! Not a cool purple, but a metallic maroonish purple. Barf! Like WTF? The Italians have a lock on "Pizzazz" and the paint the damn scooter puke maroon/purple? Gag me. Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 2 23:01:09 2003 Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 22:59:55 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: Rob Sharp CC: "S. Russell" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX, Mike Bartman , dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Morning ride, cagers suck Rob Sharp wrote: > I came from NY and they have the cell phones in cars law, where your required > to use handfree. It's a PAIN in the A$$. I think having to mess with all that > handfree and earphone stuff distracts you even more than no having it. > > Just wait till they start doing photo cell phone enforcement. :-O Wonder what > the next photo enforcement issue will be? Well, seems technology can read your cell phone location and track it, giving the intrusive peckers a speed reading. Future - a speeding fine included on your wireless bill? Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 2 23:14:54 2003 Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 20:14:51 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Bikes and pool... To: "William J. Huson" , "S. Russell" Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- "William J. Huson" wrote: > But what about the 4 tips, you query? Hey, everyone knows the > rotation of the earth induces corolious(sp?) forces! > Each tip is graded for a compass quadrant of the shot - > NE, SE, SW, and NW. Simple... That's it. But it's damned tricky when you play a tournament in Australia. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 2 23:16:54 2003 Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 20:16:52 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Bikes and pool...(and Aprilia Falco for sale) To: "William J. Huson" Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- "William J. Huson" wrote: > Well, I looked at an Aprilla a month or so ago - an Aprilla > Scooter. > Methinks it is a kick-ass scooter, but alas - PURPLE! Not > a cool > purple, but a metallic maroonish purple. Barf! Like WTF? > The Italians > have a lock on "Pizzazz" and the paint the damn scooter > puke > maroon/purple? Gag me. Purple sounds cool, but maroonish? I looked at a Suzuki 650 Burgman yesterday in a nice really deep dark metallic blue, though. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 2 23:19:18 2003 Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 20:19:15 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Bikes and pool... To: "S. Russell" , "William J. Huson" Cc: pltrgyst@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- "S. Russell" wrote: > God, after that I am going to need a drink. Never a bad idea. And I'm sitting here staring at an almost full bottle of Vintage 19 yr. 1979 non-chill-filtered Caol Ila... Time to reach for the "What Would Jesus Drink" shot glass. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 2 23:23:52 2003 Reply-To: "S. Russell" From: "S. Russell" To: , "William J. Huson" Cc: , Subject: Re: Bikes and pool... Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 23:23:37 -0500 and I with six bottles of scotch (all different ages) jameson's, bailey's, and guiness, hmmmmm decisions decisions. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "S. Russell" ; "William J. Huson" Cc: ; Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 11:19 PM Subject: Re: Bikes and pool... > --- "S. Russell" wrote: > > God, after that I am going to need a drink. > > Never a bad idea. And I'm sitting here staring at an almost > full bottle of Vintage 19 yr. 1979 non-chill-filtered Caol > Ila... > > Time to reach for the "What Would Jesus Drink" shot glass. > > -- Larry > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears > http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 3 06:00:13 2003 Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 05:58:56 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" CC: "S. Russell" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Bikes and pool... "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" wrote: > --- "William J. Huson" wrote: > > But what about the 4 tips, you query? Hey, everyone knows > the > > rotation of the earth induces corolious(sp?) forces! > > Each tip is graded for a compass quadrant of the shot - > > NE, SE, SW, and NW. Simple... > > That's it. But it's damned tricky when you play a tournament > in Australia. > > -- Larry No prob. When "down under", just hold your Cue compass up to a mirror! From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 3 06:37:46 2003 Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 03:37:43 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Bikes and pool... To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Two things: 1. If there's any sort of mounted material on the stick case, you can use it as a mount point for any straps. If there isn't one you can always mount something onto the case. While my sticks aren't worth $200 (25 year old aluminum and plastic :-) I do have a hard case that I'm certain I could put some sort of secure mount point on it. 2. Forget bungie cords, use straps. Much more secure and they don't bounce around. You can cinch it down securly (assuming mount points on the item) with worrying about bouncing or cutting off your circulation. Carl --- "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" wrote: > That's sort of where I'm headed. I have what's called a hard > case for multiple cues, made of synthetic leather with hard > foam tubes inside. The problem is that the straps on these > things are quite short, meant for casually looping over one > shoulder, not over the body -- and nowhere near long enough > to go over one shoulder diagonally over my back, even without > a Joe Rocket Ballistic jacket and armor on. Further, the > existing short straps on such cases are either permanently > stitched to the case or have loop arrangements on the ends > which fit over the ends of the case. > > I have a backpack specifically designed to carry tennis > racquets which works great on the bikes, but don't see > anything comparable for pool cues. > > If I can't find an easy existing solution, I may discuss this > further with Linda and see what she could create. Or get over > my paranoia concerning bungee straps. 8;) > > Thanks again, all. > > -- Larry > > --- "S. Russell" wrote: > > I might be talking stupid, but can't you get a soft case > > for the stick that > > secures around the body? Kind of like a backback, but that > > might get in the > > way if the situation arises. > > > > Scott > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: "Mike Bartman" ; > > > > Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 9:54 PM > > Subject: Re: Bikes and pool... > > > > > > > --- Mike Bartman wrote: > > > > No luggage rack, I presume? > > > > > > On the 919 yes, on the Aprilia no. Somehow I'm hesitant > > to > > > trust >$2000 worth of cues to bungee cords. The 30 inch > > > length across the rack wouldn't be a problem unless lane > > > splitting, I guess. > > > > > > > Ok, how about strapping it to your back with bungee > > cords > > > > and/or clothesline? > > > > > > That's probably where I'm headed -- probably have to > > fashion > > > an extra long, extra sturdy strap and mount system. > > > > > > > You could mount a carrier to your bike > > permanently...make > > > > it out of PVC pipe for durability and cheapness. > > > > > > > > Or maybe you could get something from RAM to allow > > mounting > > > > it across your bars when needed... > > > > > > Don't think either of them would work for a 3x7 cue case > > (3 > > > butts, 7 shafts, plus accessories), about 4.5" square in > > > cross-section. > > > > > > Thanks for the suggestions. > > > > > > -- Larry > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears > > > http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears > http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 3 07:49:49 2003 From: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" To: "'Wayne Edelen'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Pummeling cagers (was Morning ride, cagers suck) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 07:49:11 -0500 I had a guy try to run into me and give me the finger so I followed him until he pulled up were some cops had arrested a guy. So idiot driver trys to complain that I was harassing him. I explained to the cops what happened and to cop just smiles and says I ride to "we'll take care of this a-hole". I was funny seeing the guys face as I was pulling off and he was surrounded by three cops on a dark street getting cuffed. -----Original Message----- From: Wayne Edelen [mailto:wayne@XXXXXX] Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 9:06 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Pummeling cagers (was Morning ride, cagers suck) On Sun, 2 Nov 2003, Mike Bartman wrote: > You know, with an ass like that, I think I might have changed my plans and > just followed him to whereever he was going, then dragged him from his car > and beat him to a pulp. If he got wise and drove to a police station to > complain about me following him, I'd have pressed charges for vehicular > assault. > > I'd probably have regretted it later, but that sort of jerk/threat to my > existence is something that just puts me over the edge in a hurry. One of the guys on the 'Busa board was intentionally cut off 2x by a cabbie. He followed the cab through traffic and cornered him on a dead end street. The cab ran into the bike, knocking it over and sped away. The 'Busa rider chased him down and caught him in front of 3 cops. He punched through his driver's window and grabbed the guy... and then the cops were all over him. They wouldn't listen to his explanation and he was arrested for assault. He's now dealing with the legal ramifications of his actions. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 3 08:29:10 2003 Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 05:28:47 -0800 (PST) From: Todd Withrow Subject: Election Day To: DC Bike List Election day is tomorrow folks. Regardless of who you vote for, go vote. If you don't vote, you can't bitch about the roads, taxes, etc., etc. And for those Fairfax County residents that think they might get arrested, have a friend relative arrested, get sued, sue somebody, need a subpoena served, need assets seized, etc., etc. Go vote Stan Barry for Sheriff, he will get those services accomplished much better than Vickery. ===== AIM: Inf DS http://www.geocities.com/mtwithrow ----------------------------------------------------------- Used to be that we "worldproofed" our children. Now society wants to childproof the world. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 3 09:28:25 2003 Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 09:28:08 -0500 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: pltrgyst@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Bikes and pool... X-AOL-IP: 65.86.98.162 In a message dated 11/1/2003 9:34:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, pltrgyst@XXXXXX writes: > Let's see, we've already started a furor with OT posts > concerning poker (thanks for coming, Fish -- next game 20 > November for anyone else interested), so how about > pool/billiards? > > Any pool shooters, especially one-pocket, among the dc > denizens? > > And on-topic, has anyone found a safe and reliable way to > carry pool cues on a bike? None of my cue cases have a strap > either solid enough or long enough to get over my riding > gear, or solid enough metal anchor points to use a > third-party strap. Any ideas? > > Thanks -- Larry I'd be up for some 8 ball. Some friends and I hit Buffalo Billiards on DuPont every once in a while. I play slop cause I stink. ;-) Had a pool table for years at my folks house. It now resides at my sisters house. They just went up one day, said they were finishing off their basement and taking the table. However, I took the best cue before they got to it. :-) No ideas on carrying a cue on the bike. I usually walk since it's not that far from me. Gotta love livin in DC. LOL Scooter (2000 r/w/b YZF R6) AFRA #17 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 3 23:07:11 2003 Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 23:05:58 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: Foam needed... Many moons ago the US Navy installed Astroturf at the Academy. My friend went dumpster diving and rescued the scraps of foam used under Astroturf. It is a high density closed cell AKA G-Pad. We used most of it to line the cockpits of our race boats, and I used a piece to modify the OEM Harley seat, but didn't have enough to do the whole seat. Better, but I rolled over and got a Corbin. I'm back it - modifying another seat(s). What I need is more of that neat foam. Cuts with a sharp knife, or a hacksaw, and can be shaped with 40 grit. Anyone know of a local source for a variety of foams? Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 3 23:36:29 2003 Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 23:36:23 -0500 To: "Dave Yates" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Morning ride, cagers suck At 05:39 PM 11/3/03 -0500, Dave Yates wrote: > We still >> lose between 40,000 and 48,000 people a year on the highways, just like we >> did in the 70s. If you want to blame cell phone use for accidents you >will >> need to figure out how to control for traffic density, average speeds, >> vehicle design changes, road rage and driver skill levels...among other >> factors. > >[Dave] No, I don't. Nor do my delegate and senator. You (and they) certainly do, if you are interested in actually accomplishing anything useful. If you can't tell the difference between "motion" and "action", then, yeah, I guess you can skip the whole problem analysis step. That's certainly how lots of bad laws get on the books, so it's very popular. >This topic makes the rounds on this list >so frequently because we observe these cell yakkers all the time, and >they're not >being noticed for their adeptness at apexing or overall driving courtesy & >skill, they're noticed because they drive poorly. You see someone driving like they've been pithed, and see that they are on a cell phone, so you conclude that cell phone use results in poor driving? It certainly might, but that's a pretty big leap there. You don't know how many times someone was on a cell phone and didn't call attention to themselves because they were driving just fine for instance. They aren't in your dataset. You've pre-selected your cell phone users for poor driving first, and then noted that a cell phone was involved a lot of the time and concluded that cell phones cause bad driving. That's a bit circular in the logic. You may still be right, but you don't have any valid proof of it there. It's entirely possible that some people can use a cell phone and still drive just fine, though it's clear that not all can. It's also possible that some people are smart enough to know when cell phone use while driving is not a problem, and only do so at those times...they wouldn't be in your dataset either. You are also missing all of the ones with speakers or headsets, since you won't know that they are holding a conversation over a phone, so you'll miss a lot of cell phone users. What you really need to do is to ban cell phone use by those people who can't use them intelligently and who's driving is adversely affected by their lack of wit and skill...or better yet, get these fuckers off the road entirely! >> Or are they just >> the first target in a campaign that will eventually address all the other >> issues too...somehow? > >[Dave] I'm not understanding where you're trying to take this; Just above, >you >cited the 40 - 48k fatalities / year on the roads, yet, in the very same >missive, >you give cell chatters - among the other distractions - a free pass. Why? I didn't give anyone a free pass who was being distracted by their extra activities. You are, for all but cell chatters though. That's my point: fight the distractions, don't get fixated on cell phones in particular. Distracted drivers are a problem, regardless of what's distracting them. Drivers who are paying adequate attention to their driving aren't a problem, no matter what else they might be doing too. What it takes to distract a given person varies widely, as does the level of attention required to drive safely. What distracts one might not another, and vice versa for some other thing. What is enough attention to drive safely in one place and time might be totally inadequate in another. Is that any clearer? If not, let's take this off list, huh? -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 4 09:21:51 2003 Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:35:49 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Speaking of cell phone users... http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/2604313/detail.html -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 4 09:47:20 2003 Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 06:47:14 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Foam needed... To: "William J. Huson" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- "William J. Huson" wrote: > ... Anyone know of a local source for a variety > of foams? There is such a business up in Rockville, but I don't know the name or number. Yellow pages, I guess. I had them make me a two-piece queen-size mattress out of very dense foam a couple of years ago. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 4 09:47:51 2003 From: Sunil Doshi Subject: Re: Honda Dealer for 600 Mile Maintenance Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:47:48 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I don't have my owner's manual with me, but I think that it calls for a valve check (and adjustment if necessary). I'm not sure how much work this entails, but all the dealers I've called have quoted me prices from $250 up, and they all say that a valve check, is figured into that cost. On Nov 3, 2003, at 9:39 PM, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > In a message dated 11/3/2003 2:06:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, > sdoshi@XXXXXX writes: > >> I'm also >> concerned about all the work actually being done (like the valve >> adjustment). > > Things may well have changed BUT! if I remember right the only Shadow > that > need a valve adjustment _ever_ was the old 600VLX. > Get yourself a shop manual ASAP even if you intend to do no work > yourself > because it will tell you just what is needed at any given service. > (For instance > my bike does not require a valve adjustment at 600mi.) > Use it just once and it will have paid for itself. > sunil http://widepipe.org/ride/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 4 11:28:50 2003 Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:28:08 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Foam needed... To: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" , "William J. Huson" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX try scopin bros. in bethesda on norfolk avenue --- "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" wrote: > --- "William J. Huson" wrote: > > > ... Anyone know of a local source for a variety > > of foams? > > There is such a business up in Rockville, but I don't > know > the name or number. Yellow pages, I guess. > > I had them make me a two-piece queen-size mattress out of > very dense foam a couple of years ago. > > -- Larry > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree > ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 4 12:22:23 2003 Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 12:22:14 -0500 To: Wayne Edelen , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Speaking of cell phone users... At 09:35 AM 11/4/03 -0500, Wayne Edelen wrote: >http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/2604313/detail.html They didn't mention alcohol involvement, but it was late, she'd been out with a friend, and having to swerve to avoid a utility pole isn't a normal part of driving. Utility poles aren't well known for running out into traffic. The fact that she wasn't wearing her seatbelt, despite studying to be an EMT (where I'm sure she had at least heard that they were a good idea), tends to add support to the "impaired even before adding the cell phone" concept. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 4 13:08:49 2003 Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:00:11 -0500 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Speaking of cell phone users... To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >They didn't mention alcohol involvement, but it was late, >she'd been out with a friend, and having to swerve to avoid >a utility pole isn't a normal part of driving. Utility >poles aren't well known for running out into traffic. [Dave] Clearly this person's level of distraction was sufficient given the circumstances to cause her to wander off path. Even if there were an intervening factor, like wildlife, there was still enough distraction to be the overwhelmingly likely cause of this accident. > >The fact that she wasn't wearing her seatbelt [Dave] That only had the chance to prevent the fatality, not the collision. ..."impaired even before adding the cell phone" [Dave] Did you get that from the bumper sticker - "Instant Idiot: Just add cell phone" ? Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 4 13:34:36 2003 Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:34:28 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Honda Dealer for 600 Mile Maintenance To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Actually it's probably not in the owner's propaganda leaflet and basic CYA ("don't do this, you'll DIE", "don't do that, you'll DIE"). I asked Rita to check the service manual ($60) for her Shadow VLX and it says "Valve clearance is to be inspected at 600 miles, 8000, 16000, and 24000." Carl --- Sunil Doshi wrote: > I don't have my owner's manual with me, but I think that it calls for a > valve check (and adjustment if necessary). I'm not sure how much work > this entails, but all the dealers I've called have quoted me prices > from $250 up, and they all say that a valve check, is figured into that > cost. > > On Nov 3, 2003, at 9:39 PM, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > > > In a message dated 11/3/2003 2:06:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, > > sdoshi@XXXXXX writes: > > > >> I'm also > >> concerned about all the work actually being done (like the valve > >> adjustment). > > > > Things may well have changed BUT! if I remember right the only Shadow > > > that > > need a valve adjustment _ever_ was the old 600VLX. > > Get yourself a shop manual ASAP even if you intend to do no work > > yourself > > because it will tell you just what is needed at any given service. > > (For instance > > my bike does not require a valve adjustment at 600mi.) > > Use it just once and it will have paid for itself. > > > > > sunil > http://widepipe.org/ride/ > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 4 13:40:27 2003 Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 13:40:17 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: Honda Dealer for 600 Mile Maintenance I have never heard of a Honda actually needing the adjustment at 600 miles. I didn't need one at 16k either, but you are a lot more likely to need it then. Come to think of it, I skipped the 32k adjustment. No problems yet, but I should probably get that one done. (38k and rising - I hope to break 100k which isn't all that unusual for a VFR) At 01:34 PM 11/4/2003, Carl Schelin wrote: >I asked Rita to check the service manual ($60) for her Shadow VLX and it >says "Valve clearance is to be inspected at 600 miles, 8000, 16000, and >24000." ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 4 14:52:55 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Mike Bartman , "Dave Yates" , Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Morning ride, cagers suck Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 14:53:29 -0500 Perhaps we can implant a chip in everyones head to make them more responsible. -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer ---------- Original Message ----------- From: Mike Bartman To: "Dave Yates" , Sent: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 16:55:06 -0500 Subject: Re: Morning ride, cagers suck > At 12:41 PM 11/3/03 -0500, Dave Yates wrote: > > >[Dave] It's not scapegoating, it's punishing bad and irresponsible > >behavior. > > It is scapegoating when you pick on one item out of a whole flock of > them, and pretend that if you just fixed that one thing, everything > would be fine...or even significantly better. I listed half a dozen > other causes of inattention...why not go after all of them? Because > cell phones are an easier target. > > It would be really tough to make talking to the driver illegal, wouldn't > it? Or banning food in a car. Or locking kids up for misbehaving while > the car is in motion. It would cost too much to redesign all cars > so that the driver was in a sound and radio-proof compartment > separate from the passengers. Lets just ban cell phones! That will > fix it! > > As for accident rates, fatal accidents have held fairly constant > over the last 30 years or so, even as highway crowding has gone way > up. We still lose between 40,000 and 48,000 people a year on the > highways, just like we did in the 70s. If you want to blame cell > phone use for accidents you will need to figure out how to control > for traffic density, average speeds, vehicle design changes, road > rage and driver skill levels...among other factors. > > >Think of it this way > >Do you want the dump truck driver behind you on a cell phone conversation > >with his ex wife > >discussing the finer points of custody, or listening to a little Tupac ? > > Neither...but I don't want him having that same conversation with > his wife in the cab, or drinking a cherry coke's last dregs, or > lighting up a cigarette, or looking for a station that has some more > Tupac on it, or getting a blow job either. Why pick on cell phones? > Because it's politically correct? Because they are an easy > scapegoat? Or are they just the first target in a campaign that > will eventually address all the other issues too...somehow? > > It's like drunk driving. Yes, it's not a good thing to do, but why > concentrate on "drunk", when the issue is really "impaired"? I > don't care why the guy that runs over me is impaired...whether he's > "over-served", emotionally distraught, blind, or just sleepy matters > not to me if I'm flattened. > > IMO the reason we have more accidents and close calls on the roads today > has little or nothing to do with cell phone use. It has to do with lousy > drivers pushing their abilities past their capabilities...and > usually well past the legal limits (you know who you are). Most > haven't had enough science classes in school to even have a glimmer > of the reasons why a car's handling between 20 and 50mph is so > different from what it is between 50 and 80mph. Only a 30mph change > in each case, but the differences in how you have to drive are far greater. > > Or maybe it's just too many fools with loud pipes? :^) > > -- Mike B. > > **************************************************************************** > * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation > Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled > Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options > Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *------------------------------ > --------------------------------------------* * "We do it > all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** ------- End of Original Message ------- From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 4 15:33:32 2003 Subject: Price quote for trans-Atlantic motorcycle shipping Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 15:33:20 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: Okay, so this is vaguely moto-related... ;-) It's been pretty quiet on the list today, so I thought I'd provide a bit of info for future trip planning. I got a quote from a Wallenius Wilhelmsen agent for ocean shipping of a motorcycle from Baltimore to Bremerhaven, Germany; roll on, roll off; of $435.48. Bike needs to be in their yard three working days prior to ship sailing date, ships sail weekly, and the trip takes on average 16 days. This is a one-way price, and you can make an advance reservation for your vehicle, but only out a couple of months (currently through mid-January). Now I need to find out how much insurance costs are... Hope this is useful to someone on the list! Robert From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 4 15:36:54 2003 Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 15:36:50 -0500 To: Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Speaking of cell phone users... At 01:00 PM 11/4/03 -0500, Dave Yates wrote: > >>They didn't mention alcohol involvement, but it was late, >>she'd been out with a friend, and having to swerve to avoid >>a utility pole isn't a normal part of driving. Utility >>poles aren't well known for running out into traffic. > >[Dave] Clearly this person's level of distraction was >sufficient given the circumstances to cause her to wander off >path. Apparently. The question is what caused the distraction, and would passing a law about cell phone use have had any effect on a person who clearly ignores them anyway (MA does have a seat belt law: http://www.danverspolice.com/seatblt2.htm). I suggest that this person was stupid to start with, so blaming the cell phone for the accident is like blaming the hull of the Titanic. Sure, it was involved, but it wasn't the main problem. >>The fact that she wasn't wearing her seatbelt > >[Dave] That only had the chance to prevent the fatality, not >the collision. The point is that not wearing a seatbelt, despite a law requiring one to do so, and despite her being well aware, I'm sure, of the benefits of wearing them, tends to indicate not only a mindset that would probably have led to her using a cell phone despite a law prohibiting it, but also tends to indicate her level of intelligence and/or incapacitation from more temporary causes (fatigue, alcohol, whatever)...which I suggest had more to do with the accident occurring than the fact that she was chatting with a friend. If her friend had been in the car with her during the conversation would you be suggesting we ban passengers? A conversation is a conversation...whether on a phone or in person, it's a distraction. >..."impaired even before adding the cell phone" > >[Dave] Did you get that from the bumper sticker - >"Instant Idiot: Just add cell phone" ? No. I've never seen such a bumper sticker. I wouldn't have referenced it if I had though...the sentiment may be emotionally satisfying, but it's misleading and wrong. As I keep saying, cell phones are only one factor and whether they are important in driving situations varies from person to person. Some people are idiots to start with, and such people do probably tend to use cell phones in cars in situations where less idiotic people wouldn't...but that doesn't mean the cell phone made them into idiots at all. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 4 15:41:18 2003 Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 15:41:18 -0500 To: "Verde, Robert" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Price quote for trans-Atlantic motorcycle shipping At 03:33 PM 11/4/03 -0500, Verde, Robert wrote: >I got a quote from a Wallenius Wilhelmsen agent for ocean shipping of a motorcycle from Baltimore to Bremerhaven, Germany; roll on, roll off; of $435.48. Bike needs to be in their yard three working days prior to ship sailing date, ships sail weekly, and the trip takes on average 16 days. This is a one-way price, and you can make an advance reservation for your vehicle, but only out a couple of months (currently through mid-January). > >Now I need to find out how much insurance costs are... Are there any problems with things like licence, tags, lights, emission control, etc.? At least you don't have have to worry about the "left hand, right hand drive" problems on a bike. At least so long as you stay on the correct side of the road for the country you are in at the time. :^) If I was going to ride "over there", I think I'd just check into renting a bike. Probably not a lot more expensive than a round-trip shipping deal. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 4 15:44:43 2003 From: "Mobacc" To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: 50% OT -- Vehicle Telecoms Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 15:35:17 -0500 For those with a professional interest, a press release from the ITU (maybe not news to all: However the International Telecommunications Union is the UN group responsible for steering global telecoms to a non-Babellian future). I'm on their list and this just came across. Over the years they've enabled many to blaze trails. ****** ITU to hold Workshop on Telecommunications for Motor Vehicles: First Attempt to Develop Global Standards for Automotive Telecommunications 24 - 25 November 2003 Where: ITU Headquarters, Geneva Why: ITU in collaboration with ISO (International Organization for Standardization) and ETSI (the European Telecommunications Standards Institute) is organizing a workshop offering the automotive and telecommunication industries an opportunity to exchange ideas on the future of communication technologies in motor vehicles. This workshop will be a first attempt to bring all interested parties together from around the world to forge standards that will expand markets, promote innovation and ensure that in-car communication technology moves forward at a rapid pace. Examples of the types of technology to be examined include, speech recognition, e-calls - that generate automatic calls to the emergency services in the case of an accident, predictive technology to prevent accidents and location finding technology. ...snip Who: The participation of vehicle manufacturers, network operators, systems designers, regulatory authorities and of other standards-development organizations is sought so that a broad perspective of overall requirements and activities can be discussed. For further information see: http://www.itu.int/ITU-T/worksem/telecomauto/index.html ...snip ******** Bill S. / DC '99 VN750 > If I'm lifted, I want to call home Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 4 15:49:25 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: "'Verde, Robert'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Price quote for trans-Atlantic motorcycle shipping Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 15:53:21 -0500 This is very interesting. Does the bike require any prep; can it be full of gas and oil when dropped off? How long will they hold it for you at the destination? Obviously the logistics of having the bike arrive at the same time you hop off the plane are not possible, so how does that work? Is it 3 days prior drop-off at the return port too? $900 round trip is cheaper than renting a bike for 2 weeks, so this is WAY relevant to us moto-travelers. Mike - spent 2 weeks on a Yamaha Diversion 900 in England and Ireland 98 XR400R 96 VFR 76 CB400F > -----Original Message----- > From: Verde, Robert [SMTP:Robert.Verde@XXXXXX] > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 3:33 PM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Price quote for trans-Atlantic motorcycle shipping > > Okay, so this is vaguely moto-related... ;-) > > It's been pretty quiet on the list today, so I thought I'd provide a bit > of info for future trip planning. > > I got a quote from a Wallenius Wilhelmsen agent for ocean shipping of a > motorcycle from Baltimore to Bremerhaven, Germany; roll on, roll off; of > $435.48. Bike needs to be in their yard three working days prior to ship > sailing date, ships sail weekly, and the trip takes on average 16 days. > This is a one-way price, and you can make an advance reservation for your > vehicle, but only out a couple of months (currently through mid-January). > > Now I need to find out how much insurance costs are... > > Hope this is useful to someone on the list! > > Robert > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 4 15:56:20 2003 Subject: RE: Price quote for trans-Atlantic motorcycle shipping Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 15:56:05 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Mike Bartman" , I thought of that, and figured that I already own my bike, plus the costs of rentals in Europe seem to be a bit high... Most of the resources I've found are apparently geared towards tours, and the few sites that list prices for rentals (such as this one in the UK: http://www.sawbridgeworth-bmw.co.uk/) have weekly rates for BMW's starting at $628.00. This did include comprehensive insurance (no idea of deductibles) but was also before a surcharge for Europe travel as well as one for a non-UK rider. Oh, and there is also a daily limit of 250 miles, not that I feel that is a critical factor! If I spend a couple of weeks plus, the price seems to work in my favor to take my bike across, plus I don't have to feel obligated to put miles on it just to justify the rental money. Of course, this is just an exercise at this point, I don't have a firm travel date in mind, and I'm still researching the licensing/other issues. Witold; the price is the same if I choose to take delivery in Southampton, and thanks for the tip on cheap(er) airfare to the UK! Robert http://www.dropbears.com/bikelinks/rentals.htm -----Original Message----- From: Mike Bartman [mailto:omni@XXXXXX] Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 3:41 PM To: Verde, Robert; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Price quote for trans-Atlantic motorcycle shipping At 03:33 PM 11/4/03 -0500, Verde, Robert wrote: Are there any problems with things like licence, tags, lights, emission control, etc.? At least you don't have have to worry about the "left hand, right hand drive" problems on a bike. At least so long as you stay on the correct side of the road for the country you are in at the time. :^) If I was going to ride "over there", I think I'd just check into renting a bike. Probably not a lot more expensive than a round-trip shipping deal. -- Mike B. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 4 16:12:44 2003 Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 16:11:35 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: "Verde, Robert" CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Price quote for trans-Atlantic motorcycle shipping What a deal! I checked into shipping a bike door-to-door from my house in Virginia to Jacksonville FL and I seem to recall $500 as the baseline for various shipping companys. Bike had to be purged of gasolene also. Bill "Verde, Robert" wrote: > Okay, so this is vaguely moto-related... ;-) > > It's been pretty quiet on the list today, so I thought I'd provide a bit of info for future trip planning. > > I got a quote from a Wallenius Wilhelmsen agent for ocean shipping of a motorcycle from Baltimore to Bremerhaven, Germany; roll on, roll off; of $435.48. Bike needs to be in their yard three working days prior to ship sailing date, ships sail weekly, and the trip takes on average 16 days. This is a one-way price, and you can make an advance reservation for your vehicle, but only out a couple of months (currently through mid-January). > > Now I need to find out how much insurance costs are... > > Hope this is useful to someone on the list! > > Robert From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 4 16:13:53 2003 Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:13:48 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Price quote for trans-Atlantic motorcycle shipping To: "Verde, Robert" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- "Verde, Robert" wrote: > Okay, so this is vaguely moto-related... ;-) > > It's been pretty quiet on the list today, so I thought I'd > provide a bit of info for future trip planning. > > I got a quote from a Wallenius Wilhelmsen agent for ocean > shipping of a motorcycle from Baltimore to Bremerhaven, > Germany; roll on, roll off; of $435.48. Bike needs to be > in their yard three working days prior to ship sailing > date, ships sail weekly, and the trip takes on average 16 > days. This is a one-way price, and you can make an advance > reservation for your vehicle, but only out a couple of > months (currently through mid-January). Good information. Did they say how far ahead you could reserve the return shipping? Thanks -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 4 16:19:38 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: "'Verde, Robert'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Price quote for trans-Atlantic motorcycle shipping Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 16:23:38 -0500 IIRC, the Diversion 900 with full Givi luggage and Oxford tankbag was $1200 out the door for 2 weeks, unlimited miles. Turned out to be about 2000 miles total. This was out of London, where you could take the tube (from Heathrow) and walk to the shop. www.raceways.net (for reference) Mike 98 XR400R 96 VFR 76 CB400F > -----Original Message----- > From: Verde, Robert [SMTP:Robert.Verde@XXXXXX] > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 3:56 PM > To: Mike Bartman; dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: RE: Price quote for trans-Atlantic motorcycle shipping > > I thought of that, and figured that I already own my bike, plus the costs > of rentals in Europe seem to be a bit high... > > Most of the resources I've found are apparently geared towards tours, and > the few sites that list prices for rentals (such as this one in the UK: > http://www.sawbridgeworth-bmw.co.uk/) have weekly rates for BMW's starting > at $628.00. This did include comprehensive insurance (no idea of > deductibles) but was also before a surcharge for Europe travel as well as > one for a non-UK rider. Oh, and there is also a daily limit of 250 miles, > not that I feel that is a critical factor! > > If I spend a couple of weeks plus, the price seems to work in my favor to > take my bike across, plus I don't have to feel obligated to put miles on > it just to justify the rental money. Of course, this is just an exercise > at this point, I don't have a firm travel date in mind, and I'm still > researching the licensing/other issues. > > Witold; the price is the same if I choose to take delivery in Southampton, > and thanks for the tip on cheap(er) airfare to the UK! > > Robert > > > http://www.dropbears.com/bikelinks/rentals.htm > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Bartman [mailto:omni@XXXXXX] > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 3:41 PM > To: Verde, Robert; dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Price quote for trans-Atlantic motorcycle shipping > > > At 03:33 PM 11/4/03 -0500, Verde, Robert wrote: > > Are there any problems with things like licence, tags, lights, emission > control, etc.? > > At least you don't have have to worry about the "left hand, right hand > drive" problems on a bike. At least so long as you stay on the correct > side of the road for the country you are in at the time. :^) > > If I was going to ride "over there", I think I'd just check into renting a > bike. Probably not a lot more expensive than a round-trip shipping deal. > > -- Mike B. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 4 16:20:34 2003 Subject: RE: Price quote for trans-Atlantic motorcycle shipping Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 16:20:15 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Michael Lynch" , Michael; Bike can have up to 2 liters of gas in the tank, and is expected to be ridden into their lot. I didn't ask if I was supposed to leave a key with it, or merely unlock the steering, I suspect they'll want a key too. Destination pick-up at Bremerhaven; the lady who gave me the quote thought that I got ten days free storage to pick up a personal vehicle, but she was going to check and get back to me. Insurance looks to be a little more convoluted, as my bike is over twenty years old (1983) and is also a sport touring model. Hmm. Robert -----Original Message----- From: Michael Lynch [mailto:MLynch@XXXXXX] Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 3:53 PM To: Verde, Robert; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Price quote for trans-Atlantic motorcycle shipping This is very interesting. Does the bike require any prep; can it be full of gas and oil when dropped off? How long will they hold it for you at the destination? Obviously the logistics of having the bike arrive at the same time you hop off the plane are not possible, so how does that work? Is it 3 days prior drop-off at the return port too? $900 round trip is cheaper than renting a bike for 2 weeks, so this is WAY relevant to us moto-travelers. Mike - spent 2 weeks on a Yamaha Diversion 900 in England and Ireland 98 XR400R 96 VFR 76 CB400F From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 4 16:28:10 2003 Subject: RE: Price quote for trans-Atlantic motorcycle shipping Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 16:28:01 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: , Larry; I didn't ask, but I suspect it might follow the same guidelines. The agent I spoke with said she had no information on ship schedules later than mid-January, and although I can see shipping schedules on the main site, they require a Shipper ID# to book a shipment. There may be other restrictions for ro-ro shipping, as many carriers take these as space available cargo. Still, I'd probably like to book transit both ways when I do arrange shipping, as well as get more info on cancellation policies in case I decide to extend my trip. Robert -----Original Message----- From: pltrgyst@XXXXXX [mailto:pltrgyst@XXXXXX] Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 4:14 PM To: Verde, Robert; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Price quote for trans-Atlantic motorcycle shipping Good information. Did they say how far ahead you could reserve the return shipping? Thanks -- Larry From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 4 16:34:01 2003 Subject: RE: Price quote for trans-Atlantic motorcycle shipping Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 16:33:52 -0500 From: "Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services" To: "Michael Lynch" , "Verde, Robert" , Last time I was in London I toyed with the idea of renting a motorcycle (preferably a sportbike). I didn't look especially hard, but I noticed that many - if not most - places won't even consider renting anything to those of us who are under 25 years of age. I didn't see any sportbikes for rent either. This may factor into some people's plans. Witold > From: Michael Lynch [mailto:MLynch@XXXXXX] > IIRC, the Diversion 900 with full Givi luggage and Oxford > tankbag was $1200 > out the door for 2 weeks, unlimited miles. Turned out to be > about 2000 > miles total. > This was out of London, where you could take the tube (from > Heathrow) and > walk to the shop. > www.raceways.net (for reference) > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 4 18:23:26 2003 Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 18:15:05 -0500 To: "Verde, Robert" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: Price quote for trans-Atlantic motorcycle shipping At 03:56 PM 11/4/03 -0500, Verde, Robert wrote: >I thought of that, and figured that I already own my bike, plus the costs of rentals in Europe seem to be a bit high... Yeah, they do. I wonder if it's all due to exchange rates, or if they are really higher in "absolute" terms? If there's no problems with driving a US registered bike in Europe, sounds like a plan to me! Have fun! -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 4 18:37:34 2003 From: "Michael Jordan" To: Subject: Re: Price quote for trans-Atlantic motorcycle shipping Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 18:37:27 -0500 X-ELNK-Trace: 599158c4802a0bc829d2c221526d1bab239a348a220c2609f61f35c36c1a35ed545f958363af252c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c > I got a quote from a Wallenius Wilhelmsen agent for ocean shipping of a motorcycle from Baltimore to Bremerhaven, Germany; Santa Claus lives south of Bremerhaven. No lie - I picked up my car there in December of '89 - it was still dark out at 09:30. I'd like to ship my bike, but I'm not willing to go without it for 4 - 5 weeks at both ends (ocean transport) or pay through the nose for air freight. Lets not even talk about getting it through customs, getting your hide from the airport to the docks, etc. etc. Bottom line is for a month or less, renting is less expensive and a LOT less hassle - insurance, carnets, etc. are all taken care of. That being said, and from my great fund of knowledge and wisdom (I've done it twice already (don't snicker)) There are a couple of places in Milano that rent - I've rented from BiancoBlu twice, and had no problems with Sean and Thomas (24 & 23 respectively) getting bikes this year. They're pretty much locked into BMWs, but the prices are good and the bikes are nrw (unlimited mileage (or is that kilometrage?)). www.bianclblu.com Another place in Milano is Mototouring. They rent a varied selection of older bikes. From what I hear (in publication and from a person whoi rented from them this summer) the condition can be somewhat less than optimum. Unlimited mileage also. They have recently teamed up with Ducati, so maybe their act is a bit better now. www.mototouring.com I've also seen a couple of places in Munchen and Frankfurt that rent, but they all have mileage limits and usually about .25 Euro per Kilometer (that's about $.46/mile). To be fair, both times that I've rented, I would have been within the mileage allowance, I just prefer not having to worry about it. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 4 18:39:50 2003 Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 18:39:36 -0500 To: "William J. Huson" , "Verde, Robert" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Price quote for trans-Atlantic motorcycle shipping Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 04:11 PM 11/4/03 -0500, William J. Huson wrote: >What a deal! I checked into shipping a bike door-to-door from my house in Virginia to Jacksonville FL and I seem to recall $500 as the baseline for various shipping companys. Bike had to be purged of gasolene also. Does the "Auto-train" still run to Florida? If so, do they take bikes? That would seem to be the ideal way to get to FL with your bike...if you don't want to ride all the way there, perhaps due to winter weather. Yeah! They do take bikes! From their web page at http://www.amtrak.com/plan/autotrainpol.html : ***** Amtrak's Auto Train travels non-stop between Lorton, Virginia (LOR) and Sanford, Florida (SFA). There are no intermediate stops. When traveling on Amtrak)B’s Auto train, you (and your party, if applicable) must travel with an automobile, van, SUV or motorcycle. Limited space is available to transport motorcycles. Only standard, factory-model two-wheel motorcycles can be accepted. We cannot carry motorcycles with side cars. Passengers assist in securing and removing their motorcycles. Motorcycles must have a minimum of 5 inches clearance between the lowest portion of the frame and the bottom of the tires. ***** Hmmm...might make a nice February break...hope a train with your bike and go someplace with good riding weather for a week or two! A test for a two week trip starting February 1st for one passenger with a motorcycle, round trip, came up as $391.50 total. I suspect there are taxes on top of that, but it still sounds lower than $500 for just the bike to go one way...and you don't have to drain the gas for the Auto Train. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 4 19:11:21 2003 Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 19:10:12 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: Mike Bartman CC: "Verde, Robert" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Price quote for trans-Atlantic motorcycle shipping Mike Bartman wrote: > At 04:11 PM 11/4/03 -0500, William J. Huson wrote: > >What a deal! I checked into shipping a bike door-to-door from my house in > Virginia to Jacksonville FL and I seem to recall $500 as the baseline for > various shipping companys. Bike had to be purged of gasolene also. > > Does the "Auto-train" still run to Florida? If so, do they take bikes? > That would seem to be the ideal way to get to FL with your bike...if you > don't want to ride all the way there, perhaps due to winter weather. > > Yeah! They do take bikes! From their web page at > http://www.amtrak.com/plan/autotrainpol.html : > > ***** > Amtrak's Auto Train travels non-stop between Lorton, Virginia (LOR) and > Sanford, Florida (SFA). There are no intermediate stops. > > > > When traveling on Amtrak)B’s Auto train, you (and your party, if applicable) > must travel with an automobile, van, SUV or motorcycle. > > > > Limited space is available to transport motorcycles. Only standard, > factory-model two-wheel motorcycles can be accepted. We cannot carry > motorcycles with side cars. Passengers assist in securing and removing > their motorcycles. > > > > Motorcycles must have a minimum of 5 inches clearance between the lowest > portion of the frame and the bottom of the tires. A) I wasn't going to Floridumb, I was going to ship an antique BMW there. B) I'd rather ride my scoot, and did to Sarasota this spring. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 4 19:27:57 2003 Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 16:27:46 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: RE: Price quote for trans-Atlantic motorcycle shipping To: DC Cycles I looked into rental in Grenoble, France. This is a mid-sized city in the French Alps in the south-est part of France. Not a huge city. There was at least one place and they seemed to rent almost anything they sold, which included Ducatis. I asked about renting at ST4 and it was no problem, stocked with bags. Did not ask directly about a 996 but I suspect it would be a possibility. Price I do not remember but insurance was not included and it was vauge on how to get it. THey suggested I get my own insurance. Not sure if that is possible. I am hoping to rent an ST4 soon for a week long trip, and perhaps a 996 for one day. Roads are spectacular there and I need to explore the terrain I will likely live in within two years. PS: On a cross country trip in 1998 I met 5 German guys at the upper campground in Mt. Zion Park. They all had shipped their bikes from Bremenhaven to LA and its was cheaper then renting here. No great bikes either, one was a Transalp 600 (love that bike but would not ship it for a trip). I ended up riding with them for 5 days which is a whole other story. ===== www.deanforamerica.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 4 20:09:58 2003 Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:09:56 -0800 (PST) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Front brake *scratching* So the bike survived the trip up to NJ and back pretty well, but there are now two problems that weren't there before. First, something in the suspension is squeaking when I go over bumps or put my weight down hard on the bike. I think it's the rear suspension, but I haven't figured out a good way to check. Second, and more worrisome, the front brake is making some really bizarre noises when I use it -- sort of like a gritty scratching. You can also feel it grab unevenly at low speed, and braking power is down. I've been in full-paranoia four-second-following-distance mode, because I'm kind of worried about this. I only noticed it when I headed into work today -- I don't think it was happening until late yesterday or early today. Any thoughts? I'm going to spend a bit of time tomorrow morning going over the bike before I ride it anywhere. This weekend I'll be changing the chain and sprockets -- if I can find a chain tool, that is. Anyone have a tool for O-ring chains I can borrow? They're charging like $55 for them at Honda Powersports of Crofton. :/ Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 4 20:19:06 2003 Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:19:02 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Front brake *scratching* To: Fish Flowers , DC-Cycles Did you remove and check the pads?? --- Fish Flowers wrote: > So the bike survived the trip up to NJ and back > pretty well, but there are > now two problems that weren't there before. > > First, something in the suspension is squeaking when > I go over bumps or > put my weight down hard on the bike. I think it's > the rear suspension, but > I haven't figured out a good way to check. > > Second, and more worrisome, the front brake is > making some really bizarre > noises when I use it -- sort of like a gritty > scratching. You can also > feel it grab unevenly at low speed, and braking > power is down. I've been > in full-paranoia four-second-following-distance > mode, because I'm kind of > worried about this. I only noticed it when I headed > into work today -- I > don't think it was happening until late yesterday or > early today. > > Any thoughts? I'm going to spend a bit of time > tomorrow morning going over > the bike before I ride it anywhere. > > This weekend I'll be changing the chain and > sprockets -- if I can find a > chain tool, that is. Anyone have a tool for O-ring > chains I can borrow? > They're charging like $55 for them at Honda > Powersports of Crofton. :/ > > Fish. > ===== www.deanforamerica.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 4 20:44:52 2003 Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:44:49 -0800 (PST) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Front brake *scratching* On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Mark Kitchell wrote: > Did you remove and check the pads?? Not as yet. You perceive that it is dark outside; I'd rather not mess the bike up because I can't see what I'm doing. Anyway, what am I checking for? Grit? Worn pads? Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 4 20:56:31 2003 Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:56:23 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Front brake *scratching* To: Fish Flowers , DC-Cycles sounds like a warped rotor (or two?). someone mentioned checking the pads (which i agree should be done), but the low speed uneven grabbing would seem to indicate excessive runout. zero in on the problem and replace it. --- Fish Flowers wrote: > Second, and more worrisome, the front brake is making > some really bizarre > noises when I use it -- sort of like a gritty scratching. > You can also > feel it grab unevenly at low speed, and braking power is > down. I've been > in full-paranoia four-second-following-distance mode, > because I'm kind of > worried about this. I only noticed it when I headed into > work today -- I > don't think it was happening until late yesterday or > early today. > > Any thoughts? I'm going to spend a bit of time tomorrow > morning going over > the bike before I ride it anywhere. ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 4 21:03:44 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: Front brake *scratching* Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 21:02:36 -0500 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79c76a75904d1e85595c0037a624c519b9350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Fish pointed out: > > Did you remove and check the pads?? > > Not as yet. You perceive that it is dark outside; I'd rather not mess the > bike up because I can't see what I'm doing. > > Anyway, what am I checking for? Grit? Worn pads? [Dave] Damn... You can do a quick inspection with a decent light. You should be able to see if there's (any) pad left without removing the caliper... This is going to be tough, but... I agr.... well uhh.... Gimer's rr... Well, you know... I think your symptom(s) are indicative of at least one warped rotor, perhaps marginal pads as well... HTH Dave From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 4 21:08:38 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Fish Flowers , DC-Cycles Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Front brake *scratching* Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 21:09:19 -0500 Your checking for brake gnomes. And they only come out at night. ---------- Original Message ----------- > > Anyway, what am I checking for? Grit? Worn pads? > > Fish. ------- End of Original Message ------- -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 4 21:40:31 2003 Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 18:40:27 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Front brake *scratching* To: DC-Cycles --- Fish Flowers wrote: > On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Mark Kitchell wrote: > > > Did you remove and check the pads?? > > Not as yet. You perceive that it is dark outside; I'd rather not mess > the > bike up because I can't see what I'm doing. > You don't have to remove them. Shine the light on the ground under the brakes and then look between the pads and rotor. I would expect the copper base plate, the pad and some amount of air. On the Harley, the pads seem to touch all the time (no recoil) so I'd expect to see a paper thin gap of air between the pads and the rotor. > Anyway, what am I checking for? Grit? Worn pads? > In the daylight you can either prop the front of the bike up and slowly spin the tire, have someone watch/push, or carefully look yourself to see if the rotor is, as someone (Tom?) suggested, warped. Does the sound seem to coincide with the rotation of the wheel? > Fish. > Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 4 21:50:45 2003 Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 18:50:38 -0800 (PST) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Teknic Defender Boots. Well, I figured out why my boots are leaking today. The heels are separated from the sole -- there's a nice big gap where the two should be sealed. Emailing New Enough to see what kind of warranty the boots have, but I'm not too sanguine about my chances. Bah. Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 4 21:55:12 2003 Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 18:55:11 -0800 (PST) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Front brake *scratching* On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Tom Gimer wrote: > sounds like a warped rotor (or two?). Oh, this could be fun. :/ I'm just going to guess that Freestate (my local Suzuki dealer) doesn't carry the proper brake rotor for a GS500 -- any idea how much one would cost? Actually, it occurs to me that if it _is_ the rotor, I could just rip the front rotor off the parts bike and slap it on. Any ideas on how difficult that is? Anyway, thanks for the suggestions. I'll let y'all know how it turns out. Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 4 22:00:13 2003 Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 20:35:30 -0500 Subject: Of Interest on CNN.com From: Randy Moran To: DC Cycles http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/ptech/11/04/sweden.tinymotorcycle.ap/ index.html RPM From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 4 22:03:29 2003 Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 19:03:16 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Front brake *scratching* To: Fish Flowers , DC-Cycles simple. remember, however, the most important part: torque everything to spec. --- Fish Flowers wrote: > On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Tom Gimer wrote: > > > sounds like a warped rotor (or two?). > > Oh, this could be fun. :/ > > I'm just going to guess that Freestate (my local Suzuki > dealer) doesn't > carry the proper brake rotor for a GS500 -- any idea how > much one would > cost? > > Actually, it occurs to me that if it _is_ the rotor, I > could just rip the > front rotor off the parts bike and slap it on. Any ideas > on how difficult > that is? > > Anyway, thanks for the suggestions. I'll let y'all know > how it turns out. > > Fish. > ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 4 22:12:41 2003 Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 19:12:39 -0800 (PST) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Virgin Mobile. So I carried SWMBO's cell phone for a while when I rode, until it exploded. Someone (on lj, not dcc) recently pointed me towards Virgin Mobile (http://www.virginmobileusa.com/), a pay-as-you-go cell phone service. Seems about perfect for an emergency phone to carry on the bike -- there's no recurring monthly fee, although you need to add $20 in airtime to your account every five months to keep the phone alive. Calls are $.25/minute for the first ten minutes in a day, $.10/minute thereafter. Phones are $60 - $160, and you get $40 of "free" airtime when you buy the phone and three ringtones. Those are the good points. The bad points: It's on the Sprint PCS digital network, so coverage isn't perfect for those back-country rides. You're charged $.10 for outgoing text messages, although incoming text messages are free. And, err, that's about it. So. I've been reasonably happy with my phone (the Kyocera K7 Rave, for those following at home), which I've had for about two weeks and used perhaps twice, once to call my mother and tell her I arrived home alive from my trip to NJ, and once to call the ever-reliable Matt Patton and ask him why I'd broken down again. (Answer: I'd run out of gas, duh.) Anyway. Just thought I'd put that out there, for those of you who might be looking for a reasonably inexpensive cell phone. I hate, loathe, and despise cell phones, but this seems like a pretty cheap emergencies-only solution. Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 4 22:20:13 2003 Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 19:20:11 -0800 (PST) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Front brake *scratching* On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Tom Gimer wrote: > remember, however, the most important part: torque everything to spec. *whips out his torque wrench* Fish. god, i love craftsman tools From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 4 22:32:51 2003 Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 22:32:34 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: llarson@XXXXXX Subject: On-Topic: Richard Thompson at the Birchmere Aaahhh. Sitting here, 21-year-old Edradour in hand, having just returned from the Birchmere for the second night in a row seeing Richard Thompson perform solo. The man is a flat-out guitar wizard, up in my pantheon of guitar gods with Clapton and Albert King. For his folk-rock finger picking style, he is second to no one. Absolutely amazing. Some of you undoubtedly know his work. The rest of you are wondering how on Earth this could be on-topic. Well, that would be because Richard Thompson is the author and best performer -- by far -- of the very best motorcycle song ever written, "1952 Vincent Black Lightning." Yes, better than "Eye of the Hurricane." Far better. Impossible for some people to hear without a tear forming, along with a damned near uncontrollable urge to go jump on the nearest old Brit bike and scream off into the night. If you haven't seen him, and you ever have the chance, go. But go on two wheels. 1952 Vincent Black Lightning ~Richard Thompson Oh says Red Molly to James "That's a fine motorbike. A girl could feel special on any such like" Says James to Red Molly "My hat's off to you It's a Vincent Black Lightning, 1952. And I've seen you at the corners and cafes it seems Red hair and black leather, my favourite colour scheme" And he pulled her on behind and down to Boxhill they did ride Oh says James to Red Molly "Here's a ring for your right hand But I'll tell you in earnest I'm a dangerous man. For I've fought with the law since I was seventeen, I robbed many a man to get my Vincent machine. Now I'm 21 years, I might make 22 And I don't mind dying, but for the love of you. And if fate should break my stride Then I'll give you my Vincent to ride" "Come down, come down, Red Molly" called Sergeant McRae "For they've taken young James Adie for armed robbery. Shotgun blast hit his chest, left nothing inside. Oh come down, Red Molly to his dying bedside" When she came to the hospital, there wasn't much left He was running out of road, he was running out of breath But he smiled to see her cry He said "I'll give you my Vincent to ride" Says James "In my opinion, there's nothing in this world Beats a 52 Vincent and a red headed girl. Now Nortons and Indians and Greeves won't do, Ah, they don't have a soul like a Vincent 52" Oh he reached for her hand and he slipped her the keys Said "I've got no further use for these. I see angels on Ariels in leather and chrome, Swooping down from heaven to carry me home" And he gave her one last kiss and died And he gave her his Vincent to ride. -- Larry "Red hair and black leather, my favorite color scheme." -- RT From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 4 23:02:01 2003 Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 23:02:07 -0500 To: Fish Flowers , DC-Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Front brake *scratching* At 07:20 PM 11/4/03 -0800, Fish Flowers wrote: >On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Tom Gimer wrote: > >> remember, however, the most important part: torque everything to spec. > >*whips out his torque wrench* You might want to check with your service manual to see if they recommend red Loctite...while you are in there looking up torque specs. I've heard that critical rotating things like brake rotors and calipers often get the red stuff to make sure that a bolt doesn't back out on the road and result in far more sudden braking than you might want...especially if you weren't asking for any at the time. Don't know if that applies to metric bikes or not. >god, i love craftsman tools They are in 2nd place in my book...but that's about all I have as 1st place is way too expensive for anyone not making their living with the things. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 5 05:08:53 2003 Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 05:08:50 -0500 Subject: Re: dc-cycles digest for 11/04/03 From: Bob McKeithen To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > It's been pretty quiet on the list today, so I thought I'd provide a > bit of info for future trip planning. > > I got a quote from a Wallenius Wilhelmsen agent for ocean shipping of > a motorcycle from Baltimore to Bremerhaven, Germany; roll on, roll > off; of $435.48. Bike needs to be in their yard three working days > prior to ship sailing date, ships sail weekly, and the trip takes on > average 16 days. This is a one-way price, and you can make an advance > reservation for your vehicle, but only out a couple of months > (currently through mid-January). > > Now I need to find out how much insurance costs are... > > Hope this is useful to someone on the list! > > Robert > > > > _ _ _ _ > .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. > (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) > Robert, Check this site http://www.horizonsunlimited.com. Extensive section devoted to shipping anywhere. Also good info on what paperwork is needed at border crossings. Bob From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 5 07:21:26 2003 Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 07:21:19 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Michael Jordan Reply-To: Michael Jordan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Price quote for trans-Atlantic motorcycle shipping >PS: On a cross country trip in 1998 I met 5 German >guys at the upper campground in Mt. Zion Park. They >all had shipped their bikes from Bremenhaven to LA and >its was cheaper then renting here. One recurring theme that I heard from European bikers was the high cost of bike rental in the U.S. vs. the cost in Europe. Michel J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 5 08:23:12 2003 Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 08:23:03 -0500 From: Skip Smith To: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" CC: Mike Bartman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Bikes and pool... "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" wrote: > Somehow I'm hesitant to > trust >$2000 worth of cues to bungee cords. ok, I'm not playing pool against you. ;-) --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 5 08:43:25 2003 Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 05:43:22 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: On-Topic: Richard Thompson at the Birchmere To: llarson@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Larry, this is the GREATEST motorcycle song ever written. YOu are correct. Hearing that song performed by local artist Sean Michel Dargan helped push me over the edge and purchase my first motorcycle. I was also at the (old) Birchmere. I will try to dig up the song online. --- llarson@XXXXXX wrote: > Aaahhh. Sitting here, 21-year-old Edradour in hand, > having just returned > from the Birchmere for the second night in a row > seeing Richard Thompson > perform solo. The man is a flat-out guitar wizard, > up in my pantheon of > guitar gods with Clapton and Albert King. For his > folk-rock finger picking > style, he is second to no one. Absolutely amazing. > > Some of you undoubtedly know his work. The rest of > you are wondering how on > Earth this could be on-topic. > > Well, that would be because Richard Thompson is the > author and best > performer -- by far -- of the very best motorcycle > song ever written, "1952 > Vincent Black Lightning." Yes, better than "Eye of > the Hurricane." Far > better. Impossible for some people to hear without a > tear forming, along > with a damned near uncontrollable urge to go jump on > the nearest old Brit > bike and scream off into the night. > > If you haven't seen him, and you ever have the > chance, go. But go on two > wheels. > > 1952 Vincent Black Lightning > ~Richard Thompson > > Oh says Red Molly to James "That's a fine motorbike. > A girl could feel special on any such like" > Says James to Red Molly "My hat's off to you > It's a Vincent Black Lightning, 1952. > And I've seen you at the corners and cafes it seems > Red hair and black leather, my favourite colour > scheme" > And he pulled her on behind and down to Boxhill they > did ride > Oh says James to Red Molly "Here's a ring for your > right hand > But I'll tell you in earnest I'm a dangerous man. > For I've fought with the law since I was seventeen, > I robbed many a man to get my Vincent machine. > Now I'm 21 years, I might make 22 > And I don't mind dying, but for the love of you. > And if fate should break my stride > Then I'll give you my Vincent to ride" > > "Come down, come down, Red Molly" called Sergeant > McRae > "For they've taken young James Adie for armed > robbery. > Shotgun blast hit his chest, left nothing inside. > Oh come down, Red Molly to his dying bedside" > When she came to the hospital, there wasn't much > left > He was running out of road, he was running out of > breath > But he smiled to see her cry > He said "I'll give you my Vincent to ride" > > Says James "In my opinion, there's nothing in this > world > Beats a 52 Vincent and a red headed girl. > Now Nortons and Indians and Greeves won't do, > Ah, they don't have a soul like a Vincent 52" > Oh he reached for her hand and he slipped her the > keys > Said "I've got no further use for these. > I see angels on Ariels in leather and chrome, > Swooping down from heaven to carry me home" > And he gave her one last kiss and died > And he gave her his Vincent to ride. > > > > -- Larry > "Red hair and black leather, my favorite color > scheme." -- RT > ===== www.deanforamerica.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 5 09:02:26 2003 Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 06:02:23 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: On-Topic: Richard Thompson at the Birchmere To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I don't want a pickle, I just want to ride on my motorsickle. Carl, who met a cop at the bottom of a mountain. --- llarson@XXXXXX wrote: > -- Larry > "Red hair and black leather, my favorite color scheme." -- RT > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 5 09:56:59 2003 Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 06:57:00 -0800 (PST) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: V-Strom 650 Reviews? Anyone seen reviews for the 2004 Suzuki V-Strom 650? Looks like it could be an interesting bike, esp. if it's running the SV650 engine... I see they're also reissuing the GS500 in a sportier format: http://www.suzukicycles.com/Products/GS500FK4/ Bah. Looks like the same old bike with a new and expensive skin. Hrrmph. Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 5 10:16:38 2003 From: "LindaT." To: "Dc-Cycles \(Dc-Cycles\)" Subject: RE: Price quote for trans-Atlantic motorcycle shipping Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 10:16:11 -0500 I've done the Autotrain thing one year coming back from FL after New Years when there had been an ice storm. They have facilities for bikes. You ride your bike onto a metal pallet and they strap it down. When we got to Lorton and I claimed my bike, there were scrapes on my windshield as something must have been hanging above my bike and kept banging into it. They filled out a form on the spot and I filed a claim after finding out the cost of a new windshield. They paid promptly. It ain't cheap, though at $269 per person and bike one way. That may be a seasonal rate. LindaT. http://www.customtankbags.com Now - TankBags for 1800 Wings Springfield, VA (suburb of our nation's capital) AMA IBA HSTA BMWBMW 99 R1100RT Mr. Buzzy 95 F3 Purple Haze 00 KLR250 Super Sherpa Tenzing -----Original Message----- From: Mike Bartman [mailto:omni@XXXXXX] Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 6:40 PM To: William J. Huson; Verde, Robert Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Price quote for trans-Atlantic motorcycle shipping At 04:11 PM 11/4/03 -0500, William J. Huson wrote: >What a deal! I checked into shipping a bike door-to-door from my house >in Virginia to Jacksonville FL and I seem to recall $500 as the baseline for various shipping companys. Bike had to be purged of gasolene also. Does the "Auto-train" still run to Florida? If so, do they take bikes? That would seem to be the ideal way to get to FL with your bike...if you don't want to ride all the way there, perhaps due to winter weather. Yeah! They do take bikes! From their web page at http://www.amtrak.com/plan/autotrainpol.html : ***** Amtrak's Auto Train travels non-stop between Lorton, Virginia (LOR) and Sanford, Florida (SFA). There are no intermediate stops. When traveling on Amtrak's Auto train, you (and your party, if applicable) must travel with an automobile, van, SUV or motorcycle. Limited space is available to transport motorcycles. Only standard, factory-model two-wheel motorcycles can be accepted. We cannot carry motorcycles with side cars. Passengers assist in securing and removing their motorcycles. Motorcycles must have a minimum of 5 inches clearance between the lowest portion of the frame and the bottom of the tires. ***** Hmmm...might make a nice February break...hope a train with your bike and go someplace with good riding weather for a week or two! A test for a two week trip starting February 1st for one passenger with a motorcycle, round trip, came up as $391.50 total. I suspect there are taxes on top of that, but it still sounds lower than $500 for just the bike to go one way...and you don't have to drain the gas for the Auto Train. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 5 11:08:51 2003 Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 08:08:45 -0800 (PST) From: Sean Steele Subject: Re: V-Strom 650 Reviews? To: DC-Cycles Jumping on the '04 bandwagon: any thoughts/experiences with the 2004 Yamaha FZ6? Looks pretty sh*t hot to me... -Sean --- Fish Flowers wrote: > Anyone seen reviews for the 2004 Suzuki V-Strom 650? > Looks like it could > be an interesting bike, esp. if it's running the > SV650 engine... > > I see they're also reissuing the GS500 in a sportier > format: > http://www.suzukicycles.com/Products/GS500FK4/ Bah. > Looks like the same > old bike with a new and expensive skin. Hrrmph. > > Fish. > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 5 11:11:36 2003 Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 08:11:32 -0800 (PST) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: More on Front Brake. So I've got the bike up on blocks/centerstand, and now I can tell that the front brake is making noise even when no braking pressure is being applied -- something is scraping in there just when the wheel turns normally. But I can't tell at first glance if the rotor is warped; how does one tell this? There are circular marks on each side of the rotor itself, presumably from the pads -- does this indicate worn pads? Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 5 11:41:12 2003 From: Jason Picton To: "'Sean Steele'" , DC-Cycles Subject: FZ6 was RE: V-Strom 650 Reviews? Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 11:41:04 -0500 No personal experience with it yet, but it looks like it might be lacking.... Motorcyclist give its ok reviews but does complain of some twitchy throttle response, and it cuts corners with thing like no adjustable suspension.. Fast Bikes (UK publication) pans it.. They say the motor is peaky and lacks punch between 5-8 Rpms - which is where they think it's supposed to be in a bike like the FZ6... Personally, I think Yamaha maybe rushed the development of the fz6 to capitalize on the growing "sport" standard market (Fyi - Suzuki is dropping the 600 bandit cause it's too dated to compete).. It may be that an attempt to NOT detune, Yamaha didn't quite get it right as far as tuning goes. I imagine that they will straighten out any problems for the market they are trying to supply. But, I don't know if they have it as balanced as the FZ1 yet.... Also, from what I have read - it's only going to be sold by request - ala FJR1300. So, I don't know if there will be much negotiation.... Jason -----Original Message----- From: Sean Steele [mailto:seanwebmail@XXXXXX] Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 11:09 AM To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: V-Strom 650 Reviews? Jumping on the '04 bandwagon: any thoughts/experiences with the 2004 Yamaha FZ6? Looks pretty sh*t hot to me... -Sean --- Fish Flowers wrote: > Anyone seen reviews for the 2004 Suzuki V-Strom 650? > Looks like it could > be an interesting bike, esp. if it's running the > SV650 engine... > > I see they're also reissuing the GS500 in a sportier > format: > http://www.suzukicycles.com/Products/GS500FK4/ Bah. > Looks like the same > old bike with a new and expensive skin. Hrrmph. > > Fish. > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 5 11:58:07 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "LindaT." , "Dc-Cycles \(Dc-Cycles\)" Subject: Auto-Train, was Re: Price quote for trans-Atlantic motorcycle shipping Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 11:56:29 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- From: "LindaT." > I've done the Autotrain thing one year coming back from FL after New Years > when there had been an ice storm. They have facilities for bikes. You ride > your bike onto a metal pallet and they strap it down. When we got to Lorton > and I claimed my bike, there were scrapes on my windshield as something must > have been hanging above my bike and kept banging into it. They filled out a > form on the spot and I filed a claim after finding out the cost of a new > windshield. They paid promptly. > > It ain't cheap, though at $269 per person and bike one way. That may be a > seasonal rate. > > LindaT. Auto-Train pricing does vary quite a bit, according to the time of year and the direction you're traveling. Amtrak uses a yield management system similar to the airlines, so prices are low when demand is low. I came down with a severe case cold during Daytona Bike Week this year, and wasn't sure I felt up to riding 800+ miles in one day on the way home, so I made a reservation. Ended up not using it, as I felt better by the time it came to head north. There are coach and sleepers available and meals are included, even in coach, which is not the case on other Amtrak trains. Hmmm, 820 miles of I-95 versus 16 hours of watching pine trees go by on the train. At least you can read, nap etc., on the train. The train doesn't stop at South of the Border, though. :) Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 5 12:12:24 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Minor and Major. Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 12:12:11 -0500 > In a message dated 10/29/2003 9:30:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, > bhuson@XXXXXX writes: > > > Wierd, since I can't recall any locality banning tire chains... > The difference is that studs generally stay on all winter. Chains only go on when conditions are really bad. Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 '02 ST1100A, '92 ST1100, '02 919, "Asphalt" If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 5 12:21:50 2003 Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:21:45 -0800 (PST) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: RE: More on Front Brake. Thanks for all the help, guys. As soon as the furnace guys arrive and leave, I'm heading out for parts, although I probably won't be able to work on the brake until tomorrow, argh! (I really don't want to ride on dodgy brakes, but have no other way of getting to work. :/) Shopping list so far: micrometer, cotter pins, DOT4 fluid, 6mm and 8mm hex bit sockets, pads, loctite. This could get _expensive_... Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 5 12:26:51 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" , Mike Bartman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Bikes and pool... Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 12:26:36 -0500 > > From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" > Somehow I'm hesitant to > trust >$2000 worth of cues to bungee cords. Remind me never to play pool with you! Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 '02 ST1100A, '92 ST1100, '02 919, "Asphalt" If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 5 13:05:31 2003 Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 10:05:07 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: RE: More on Front Brake. To: Fish Flowers , DC-Cycles --- Fish Flowers wrote: > Shopping list so far: micrometer, cotter pins, DOT4 fluid, > 6mm and 8mm hex > bit sockets, pads, loctite. This could get _expensive_... As long as you're spending money, a caliper pad spreader tool can be really useful too. Usually two pieces of metal connected and pivoting in "X" fashion, with a c-clamp-like slider handle at one end to apply force and spread the other end. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 5 13:07:49 2003 Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 10:07:41 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Re: Bikes and pool... To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Bob Meyer wrote: > > Somehow I'm hesitant to > > trust >$2000 worth of cues to bungee cords. > > Remind me never to play pool with you! I just collect 'em. I've never actually used them. I suppose we could play one-pocket for pink slips... 8;) -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 5 13:17:24 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: DC-Cycles Subject: RE: More on Front Brake. Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 13:21:21 -0500 An alternative to the caliper pad spreader tool could be a piston retracting tool. That's a c-clamp, which you may already have. Seems to work pretty well on all vehicles too... Mike 98 XR400R 96 VFR 76 CB400F > -----Original Message----- > From: pltrgyst@XXXXXX [SMTP:pltrgyst@XXXXXX] > Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 1:05 PM > To: Fish Flowers; DC-Cycles > Subject: RE: More on Front Brake. > > --- Fish Flowers wrote: > > > Shopping list so far: micrometer, cotter pins, DOT4 fluid, > > 6mm and 8mm hex > > bit sockets, pads, loctite. This could get _expensive_... > > As long as you're spending money, a caliper pad spreader tool > can be really useful too. Usually two pieces of metal > connected and pivoting in "X" fashion, with a c-clamp-like > slider handle at one end to apply force and spread the other > end. > > -- Larry From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 5 14:10:19 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: Subject: Metzler M/C tire recall Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 14:10:08 -0500 http://www.safetyalerts.com/recall/a/02/v00842.htm Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 '02 ST1100A, '92 ST1100, '02 919, "Asphalt" If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 5 14:12:09 2003 Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 11:12:07 -0800 (PST) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: RE: More on Front Brake. On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, Michael Lynch wrote: > An alternative to the caliper pad spreader tool could be a piston > retracting tool. That's a c-clamp, which you may already have. Seems > to work pretty well on all vehicles too... Just got back from Sears and Freestate, so it's too late to go buying more stuff... I do have c-clamps, though, which I suppose will come in handy. Two things I forgot or they didn't have: brake pad lubricant (which my Clymer's sez I need, and I asked for, but the guy didn't hear me and I forgot to ask again) and a brake bleeding tool (which they didn't have). Are either of these truly necessary? How do I bleed the brakes after replacing the pads w/o a brake bleeding tool? Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 5 14:22:21 2003 Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 11:22:08 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: RE: More on Front Brake. To: Fish Flowers , DC-Cycles --- Fish Flowers wrote: > On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, Michael Lynch wrote: > > How do I bleed the > brakes after > replacing the pads w/o a brake bleeding tool? with elbow grease, a small wrench and by way of the bleeder valve -- tg ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 5 14:24:29 2003 Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 11:24:25 -0800 (PST) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Caliper Bolts. Boy, I'm just full of ignorance today, aren't I? So how am I supposed to get the two caliper mounting bolts off? I just shattered a ratchet trying to loosen a bolt, and all of 'em are on just as tight? Is it time to invest in an impact wrench? Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 5 14:32:21 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: "'Fish Flowers'" , DC-Cycles Subject: RE: Caliper Bolts. Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 14:36:20 -0500 If you don't have any air in the lines before you start work, and you don't crack the banjo bolt or bleeder in the process of replacing pads, the answer is you don't have to bleed them. There is no way a 3/8" Craftsman (you worked there, so that's the tools you use, right?) drive or socket will break before you snap off a caliper mounting bolt. If it did, the tool was defective. The bolts are on there pretty tight, usually. Mike 98 XR400R 96 VFR 76 CB400F > -----Original Message----- > From: Fish Flowers [SMTP:fish@XXXXXX] > Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 2:24 PM > To: DC-Cycles > Subject: Caliper Bolts. > > Boy, I'm just full of ignorance today, aren't I? > > So how am I supposed to get the two caliper mounting bolts off? I just > shattered a ratchet trying to loosen a bolt, and all of 'em are on just as > tight? Is it time to invest in an impact wrench? > > Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 5 14:40:24 2003 Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 11:40:18 -0800 (PST) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: RE: Caliper Bolts. On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, Michael Lynch wrote: > If you don't have any air in the lines before you start work, and you > don't crack the banjo bolt or bleeder in the process of replacing pads, > the answer is you don't have to bleed them. Banjo bolt? WTF is that? > There is no way a 3/8" Craftsman (you worked there, so that's the tools > you use, right?) drive or socket will break before you snap off a > caliper mounting bolt. If it did, the tool was defective. The bolts > are on there pretty tight, usually. Yep, Craftsman ratchet -- the drive on the ratchet snapped, and is now handily jammed inside my brand-new socket. :/ Arrgh. Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 5 14:41:10 2003 Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 11:41:07 -0800 (PST) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Honda 599. Saw a Honda 599 at Freestate today -- looks like a scaled-down 919. In yellow, or I might have actually thought about buying it. Pretty! Fish. naked standards are t3h shiny From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 5 14:49:20 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: "'Fish Flowers'" , DC-Cycles Subject: RE: Caliper Bolts. Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 14:53:22 -0500 It's the bolt that goes through the brake line, into the caliper. You should read the whole brake section of the Clymer's you have before you do much more. Wasn't a 1/4" drive, was it? Mike 98 XR400R 96 VFR 76 CB400F > -----Original Message----- > From: Fish Flowers [SMTP:fish@XXXXXX] > Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 2:40 PM > To: DC-Cycles > Subject: RE: Caliper Bolts. > > On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, Michael Lynch wrote: > > > If you don't have any air in the lines before you start work, and you > > don't crack the banjo bolt or bleeder in the process of replacing pads, > > the answer is you don't have to bleed them. > > Banjo bolt? WTF is that? > > > There is no way a 3/8" Craftsman (you worked there, so that's the tools > > you use, right?) drive or socket will break before you snap off a > > caliper mounting bolt. If it did, the tool was defective. The bolts > > are on there pretty tight, usually. > > Yep, Craftsman ratchet -- the drive on the ratchet snapped, and is now > handily jammed inside my brand-new socket. :/ > > Arrgh. > > Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 5 14:59:43 2003 Subject: RE: Caliper Bolts. Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 14:59:19 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Michael Lynch" , "Fish Flowers" , "DC-Cycles" The caliper mounting bolts, if they haven't been taken off lately (ever?) can be corroded and pretty tight. I remember using a breaker bar to loosen my front calper mounting bolts the first time I took them off, and also discovered that they still had the remnants of a pretty pernicious factory applied Loctite-analogue. Since then, I use red Loctite, and torque correctly, seems to provide a barrier against further corrosion and hopefully keep the bits in better shape. Also, make sure to use a six-point socket (standard-head bolts?) to minimize the chance of rounding off a bolt head. Did you use any Liquid Wrench or similar product? It may help, but be wary of the effect on brake pads and seals. When I got mine off, I also discovered that the caliper pistons themselves were grimy and starting to pit; I polished them as best I could, but check/clean them regularly, even rebuilt Honda caliper units are @ $300 a pop, a bit more than I wanted to drop for a 1983 bike. So far, everything seems in good working order, but aging brakes are one of the main reasons I lust after a newer bike... Robert -----Original Message----- From: Michael Lynch [mailto:MLynch@XXXXXX] Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 2:53 PM To: 'Fish Flowers'; DC-Cycles Subject: RE: Caliper Bolts. It's the bolt that goes through the brake line, into the caliper. You should read the whole brake section of the Clymer's you have before you do much more. Wasn't a 1/4" drive, was it? Mike 98 XR400R 96 VFR 76 CB400F From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 5 15:15:25 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Fish Flowers" , "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: More on Front Brake. Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 15:13:01 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fish Flowers" > > Two things I forgot or they didn't have: brake pad lubricant (which my > Clymer's sez I need, and I asked for, but the guy didn't hear me and I > forgot to ask again) and a brake bleeding tool (which they didn't have). > Are either of these truly necessary? How do I bleed the brakes after > replacing the pads w/o a brake bleeding tool? > > Fish. > Hmm, my brake bleeding tool is an 8 mm combination wrench. If you get really fancy you can upgrade to speedbleeders and a Mity-Vac, but all you really need to bleed are two hands the right size wrench, a short length of clear tubing and a jar for the spent fluid. One hand squeezes the lever and the other opens and closes the bleeder screw at the right times. Yep, I use ordinary C-clamps to force the caliper pistons back in. Make sure you polish off any corrosion first though. Corrosion will inhibit piston travel. Check the pistons, esp. if you're an all-weather rider. You'll need caliper grease too. About $12 for a big tub at Perp Boys. There's really no need to buy ordinary shop supplies at a motorcycle dealership. FWIW, those caliper bolts are usually spec'd for pretty high torque and dabbed with loc-tite. I usually break out the 1/2" drive with the 18" bar for such bolts. Torque is high for a bike, that is, but nothing ordinary hand tools can't handle. Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 5 15:23:37 2003 From: "stephen" To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: RE: Caliper Bolts. Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 15:21:43 -0500 Fish: Craftsman tools are guaranteed for life. Take it back and get another one. I hope you're not using a 1/4" drive. 3/8" drive should do it no problem, but for big torque you could go to Sears and pick up a 1/2" drive and coverter socket from 1/2" to 3/8. That'll give you better leverage. It doesn't sound like you've done this sort of thing before. If you haven't got a torque wrench, or the experience to approximate the torque specs by hand, then you should probably reconsider whether you want to tackle this job. You definitely seem to be having difficulty with understanding the group's instructions. Per Michael's suggestion, re-read the Clymer manual on the whole procedure, and then ask us about any terms you don't understand. At the end of this, if you're still confused, you might want to consider taking it to a shop or seeing if you have a riding buddy who's more familiar with these sorts of things (and who has a torque wrench). Stephen From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 5 15:26:20 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: "Paul Wilson" , "Fish Flowers" , "DC-Cycles" Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: Re: More on Front Brake. Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 15:26:58 -0500 Amen, I do my brakes with a small wrench and clear tubing. I bought the kit from pep boys and I just used the tube outta it. :) If you have a second set of hands it's super easy. If you don't it can be a bit more of a pain in the butt, involves "jerry rigging." Question: I haven't done the brakes on a dual front disc brake system before. When you bleed the front do you bleed one calipur then the other or both at the same time?? Rob On Wed, 5 Nov 2003 15:13:01 -0500, Paul Wilson wrote > Hmm, my brake bleeding tool is an 8 mm combination wrench. If you > get really fancy you can upgrade to speedbleeders and a Mity-Vac, > but all you really need to bleed are two hands the right size > wrench, a short length of clear tubing and a jar for the spent > fluid. One hand squeezes the lever and the other opens and closes > the bleeder screw at the right times. Yep, I use ordinary C-clamps > to force the caliper pistons back in. Make sure you polish off any > corrosion first though. Corrosion will inhibit piston travel. > Check the pistons, esp. if you're an all-weather rider. > > Paul in DC > 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 5 15:31:22 2003 Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 12:31:17 -0800 (PST) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: RE: Caliper Bolts. On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, Michael Lynch wrote: > It's the bolt that goes through the brake line, into the caliper. You > should read the whole brake section of the Clymer's you have before you > do much more. I have read the entire section, but I don't recall seeing anything about a Banjo bolt. I know which one you mean, though, and they don't require me to touch it. > Wasn't a 1/4" drive, was it? Nope, 3/8" drive ratchet, 6" handle. *shrug* I finally got the caliper bolts off using a breaker bar and *lots* of torque (applied by basically standing on the breaker bar), but now I can't loosen the axle bolts to get the front wheel off. The hell of it is I'm going to have to do this to *both* bikes, because I'm stealing the rotor from one wheel and putting it on the other. Although, now I think of it, couldn't I just swap front wheels and call it a day? (Assuming I can ever get the axles loosened, that is.) I'm beginning to think this is not going to get done before tomorrow morning. Guess I'll have SWMBO drive me into work at some point with a sleeping bag, and worry about it on the weekend. Arse. Fish. despairing From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 5 15:34:55 2003 Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 12:34:51 -0800 (PST) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: RE: Caliper Bolts. On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, stephen wrote: > Craftsman tools are guaranteed for life. Take it back and get another > one. I know; I could even wring up the exchange myself. > It doesn't sound like you've done this sort of thing before. True! > If you haven't got a torque wrench, or the experience to approximate the > torque specs by hand, then you should probably reconsider whether you > want to tackle this job. I do have a torque wrench. And I absolutely don't want to tackle this job, but sadly I must -- the bike is currently my only form of transportation, and my boss is _thiiiis_ far from cashiering me if I take any more days off. I'd run out and buy a new/used pickup today, if we weren't in the middle of refinancing our house, which makes big new loans a poor idea. > You might want to consider taking it to a shop or seeing if you have a > riding buddy who's more familiar with these sorts of things (and who has > a torque wrench). The only problem with taking it to a shop is I need it done today, or this weekend at the latest. Guess I'll start calling around and seeing if anyone could squeeze it in, but I'm not too sanguine about my chances. Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 5 15:44:52 2003 Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 15:58:02 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: More on Front Brake. On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, Rob Sharp wrote: > Amen, I do my brakes with a small wrench and clear tubing. I bought the kit > from pep boys and I just used the tube outta it. :) > If you have a second set of hands it's super easy. If you don't it can be a > bit more of a pain in the butt, involves "jerry rigging." I use a MityVac for bleeding brakes and clutches on my bike/cars. Speedbleeder suck, IMO (to the person that posted about them). :-) > Question: I haven't done the brakes on a dual front disc brake system before. > When you bleed the front do you bleed one calipur then the other or both at > the same time?? For cars and bikes, I've always bled the caliper furthest from the master cylinder first, then worked my way closer. And yes, bleed each caliper individually. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 5 15:48:36 2003 Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 16:02:06 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: DC-Cycles Subject: RE: Caliper Bolts. On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, Fish Flowers wrote: > I finally got the caliper bolts off using a breaker bar and *lots* of > torque (applied by basically standing on the breaker bar), but now I can't > loosen the axle bolts to get the front wheel off. Where do you work/live? I live near Frederick and work in Bethesda. I have an electric impact (1/2" drive) that I've used for changing tires at the track. I can bring that to work for you to borrow (I'm assuming you don't have a compressor ... if you do, I can loan you my macdaddy air impact ;) ). I also have a micrometer, dial indicator, etc for measuring and checking runout on your rotors. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 5 15:58:04 2003 From: Sunil Doshi Subject: Re: Honda Dealer for 600 Mile Maintenance Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 15:57:54 -0500 To: DC Cycles I did take the MSf course, although the acronym MOM was not used in our class! I did come across the term at a later date I ended up going with Winchester Honda. I called and they had the best price and came with recommendation. They said I could bring it in early this Saturday, take out a demo while they work on it, and then pick it up at the end of the day. It will be a 70 mile haul each way in 50 degree weather, but I don't mind saving $100. On Nov 5, 2003, at 3:43 PM, matthew patton wrote: > MFI definately. 2nd choice Manassas Honda/Kawi. Great option is > Shanandoah Honda out near Winchester mitigated by the inescapble fact > of it's distance. But surely your machine came with a MoM! (if you > don't know what MoM stands for then, you haven't taken a MSF course? If > not, please rectify that gross oversight with haste). All service stuff > is supposed to be documented there. > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree > sunil http://widepipe.org/ride/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 5 16:00:26 2003 Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 13:00:22 -0800 (PST) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: RE: Caliper Bolts. On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, Wayne Edelen wrote: > Where do you work/live? I live near Frederick and work in Bethesda. I live in Bowie, work in Alexandria. Probably too much of a hike, but thanks for offering. I do have an air compressor, so I should probably buy an air impact wrench at some point, but somehow the money always seems to be tagged for other things. (Guns, working motorcycles, mortgage, that sort of thing.) Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 5 16:10:02 2003 Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 16:23:24 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: DC-Cycles Subject: RE: Caliper Bolts. On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, Fish Flowers wrote: > On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, Wayne Edelen wrote: > > > Where do you work/live? I live near Frederick and work in Bethesda. > > I live in Bowie, work in Alexandria. Probably too much of a hike, but > thanks for offering. I do have an air compressor, so I should probably buy > an air impact wrench at some point, but somehow the money always seems to > be tagged for other things. (Guns, working motorcycles, mortgage, that > sort of thing.) Well if you get stuck, drop me a line and I'll make the trek down to help out on Sunday. I sent you my mobile # via private e-mail. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 5 16:12:00 2003 Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 16:06:28 -0500 To: DC-Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: More on Front Brake. At 11:22 AM 11/5/03 -0800, Tom Gimer wrote: >--- Fish Flowers wrote: >> On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, Michael Lynch wrote: >> >> How do I bleed the >> brakes after >> replacing the pads w/o a brake bleeding tool? > >with elbow grease, a small wrench and by way of the bleeder >valve Don't know exactly how it works on your bike, but I've seen folks using a bit of plastic tubing to keep the mess down and to prevent air getting back into the system before you can close the bleeder. The following should be taken with a block of salt...as I've said before, I'm not a mechanic. The tubing goes over the end of the bleeder valve, with the other end submerged in a small (pint size) container of clean brake fluid. Pump up system, open bleeder, make bubbles in the container, close bleeder. Repeat until you don't make bubbles anymore. Best if you don't make bubbles several times, just in case there's some air stuck somewhere. If the brakes still feel mushy, you've still got air in the system. The brake bleeder tools I've seen for sale seem to work on the principle that you pump brake fluid from the caliper back through the system to the reservoir, taking the air along with it. They attach to the bleeder, and you hand pump fluid up into the system and get bubbles in your fluid reservoir. When you stop getting bubbles and start getting fluid, you close the bleeder and seal up the reservoir after making sure it's full. Don't know if there's any advantage to either system, or if one method is preferable to another for a given bike. All I know is what I've read and seen on TV, and a little experience of my own from cars. Never bled brakes on a bike...yet. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 5 16:12:00 2003 Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 16:12:07 -0500 To: Fish Flowers , DC-Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Caliper Bolts. At 11:24 AM 11/5/03 -0800, Fish Flowers wrote: >Boy, I'm just full of ignorance today, aren't I? > >So how am I supposed to get the two caliper mounting bolts off? I just >shattered a ratchet trying to loosen a bolt, and all of 'em are on just as >tight? Is it time to invest in an impact wrench? With Harleys the standard practice is to use Red Loctite for things like that. May be the same on your bike too. It won't come appart with hand tools, and probably not with an impact wrench, if you don't heat it up to about 600 degrees F first. A heat gun is the preferred method. I found out when putting my sports rack on my Heritage that the blue Loctite comes apart a lot easier when heated a bit too. The screws holding the sissy bar on were really stubborn. One finally broke loose, and had blue gunk on the threads, so when another threatened to strip out the socket head I got out the heat gun. Set for 600 degrees, played it over the screw heads and general area for a couple of minutes then went back to the ratchet...came right out, no problem at all. Sears sells the heat guns...about $60 or so. Also useful for shrinking tubing on electrical connections, and, according to the instructions, soldering and light brazing (top temp is over 1000 degreed F...don't try to dry your hair with it :^). -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 5 16:16:05 2003 Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 16:16:09 -0500 To: Fish Flowers , DC-Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: Caliper Bolts. At 11:40 AM 11/5/03 -0800, Fish Flowers wrote: >On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, Michael Lynch wrote: > >> If you don't have any air in the lines before you start work, and you >> don't crack the banjo bolt or bleeder in the process of replacing pads, >> the answer is you don't have to bleed them. > >Banjo bolt? WTF is that? That thing on the end of the brake line at the caliper end. Looks kind of like somebody shoved an eye-bolt into the line and put a bolt through the eye into the caliper. It's the way the brake fluid gets from the brake line into the caliper. There's a small hole on the inner surface of the "eye" that feeds into a hole in the "bolt". The connector is shaped like a tiny banjo, hence the name. >Yep, Craftsman ratchet -- the drive on the ratchet snapped, and is now >handily jammed inside my brand-new socket. :/ Drive the ratchet out of the socket with a punch and take the ratchet back to Sears for replacement. Gotta love that lifetime warranty, eh? :^) You can pick up a heat gun while you are there... :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 5 16:19:03 2003 Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 16:32:33 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: More on Front Brake. On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, Rob Sharp wrote: > Amen, I do my brakes with a small wrench and clear tubing. I bought the kit > from pep boys and I just used the tube outta it. :) > If you have a second set of hands it's super easy. If you don't it can be a > bit more of a pain in the butt, involves "jerry rigging." I use a MityVac for bleeding brakes and clutches on my bike/cars. Speedbleeder suck, IMO (to the person that posted about them). :-) > Question: I haven't done the brakes on a dual front disc brake system before. > When you bleed the front do you bleed one calipur then the other or both at > the same time?? For cars and bikes, I've always bled the caliper furthest from the master cylinder first, then worked my way closer. And yes, bleed each caliper individually. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 5 17:01:42 2003 Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 14:01:33 -0800 (PST) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Partial Success. So here's where we stand. I've gone at the front rotor with a vernier caliper, and it seems to be worn, but still within the service limit specified by Clymer's... so I'm going to leave that be for now. Took the front caliper off, pulled the pads out, and Eureka! there's the problem. Both are _really_ worn, well below the wear marks. What's worse, the inboard pad seems to have flaked off about 66% of the pad material, and was down to bare metal. (The remaining 33% still has pad material -- maybe 1mm or so.) I'll try to get photos up at some point, but believe me it's ugly. *shudder* Anyway, I'm going to wait until SWMBO gets home (hopefully before the shops close), and take her cage out to get pad lubricant, then toss the new pads in, bleed the brakes, and take a verrry calm ride about the neighborhood to see if things are working properly. So one question I have now is: should I also be concerned about the rear brake pads? If the front ones are this worn, perhaps I should go rip the rear caliper off and check that one too... Anyway, thanks for the help, everyone. Fish. feeelthy dirty From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 5 17:06:46 2003 Subject: Re: Honda Dealer for 600 Mile Maintenance Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 16:06:00 -0600 From: To: , FYI valve adjustments require a completely cool (as in overnight) engine. Looks like they are not going to bother with it. Make sure you don't pay for one George >>> Sunil Doshi 11/05/03 03:57PM >>> I did take the MSf course, although the acronym MOM was not used in our class! I did come across the term at a later date I ended up going with Winchester Honda. I called and they had the best price and came with recommendation. They said I could bring it in early this Saturday, take out a demo while they work on it, and then pick it up at the end of the day. It will be a 70 mile haul each way in 50 degree weather, but I don't mind saving $100. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 5 17:06:55 2003 Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 14:06:45 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Partial Success. To: DC-Cycles Fish you seem to be very mechanically inclined (more than me) but you lack some common sense. Of course you should check the rear pads. Pads wear down. They need to be check regularly and replaced when worn out! --- Fish Flowers wrote: > So here's where we stand. I've gone at the front > rotor with a vernier > caliper, and it seems to be worn, but still within > the service limit > specified by Clymer's... so I'm going to leave that > be for now. > > Took the front caliper off, pulled the pads out, and > Eureka! there's the > problem. Both are _really_ worn, well below the wear > marks. What's worse, > the inboard pad seems to have flaked off about 66% > of the pad material, > and was down to bare metal. (The remaining 33% still > has pad material -- > maybe 1mm or so.) I'll try to get photos up at some > point, but believe me > it's ugly. *shudder* > > Anyway, I'm going to wait until SWMBO gets home > (hopefully before the > shops close), and take her cage out to get pad > lubricant, then toss the > new pads in, bleed the brakes, and take a verrry > calm ride about the > neighborhood to see if things are working properly. > > So one question I have now is: should I also be > concerned about the rear > brake pads? If the front ones are this worn, perhaps > I should go rip the > rear caliper off and check that one too... > > Anyway, thanks for the help, everyone. > > Fish. > feeelthy dirty > ===== www.deanforamerica.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 5 17:29:06 2003 Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 14:28:53 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Partial Success. To: DC-Cycles jesus. i can't stand it anymore. anybody available to wipe fish's ass later? he apparently used the clymer for this purpose. do/did you or the prior owner USE the rear brake? did you INSPECT the rear pads? do you even need to REMOVE the caliper to inspect the pads? --- Fish Flowers wrote: > So here's where we stand. I've gone at the front rotor > with a vernier > caliper, and it seems to be worn, but still within the > service limit > specified by Clymer's... so I'm going to leave that be > for now. > > Took the front caliper off, pulled the pads out, and > Eureka! there's the > problem. Both are _really_ worn, well below the wear > marks. What's worse, > the inboard pad seems to have flaked off about 66% of the > pad material, > and was down to bare metal. (The remaining 33% still has > pad material -- > maybe 1mm or so.) I'll try to get photos up at some > point, but believe me > it's ugly. *shudder* > > Anyway, I'm going to wait until SWMBO gets home > (hopefully before the > shops close), and take her cage out to get pad lubricant, > then toss the > new pads in, bleed the brakes, and take a verrry calm > ride about the > neighborhood to see if things are working properly. > > So one question I have now is: should I also be concerned > about the rear > brake pads? If the front ones are this worn, perhaps I > should go rip the > rear caliper off and check that one too... > > Anyway, thanks for the help, everyone. > > Fish. > feeelthy dirty __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 5 17:37:52 2003 From: Sunil Doshi Subject: Re: Honda Dealer for 600 Mile Maintenance Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 17:37:47 -0500 To: DC Cycles I just called Shenandoah Honda in Winchester and and asked them about the engine being cold for the valve check. They agreed and said that the during the course of the day, it will cool to a level that will allow them to perform the valve work... > Good catch! It clearly states in the factory service manual that it > has to > be a completely cold engine. Maybe call ahead of time and mention > that and > see what they say. > > Mike > 98 XR400R > 96 VFR > 76 CB400F > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: George.Cole@XXXXXX [SMTP:George.Cole@XXXXXX] >> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 5:06 PM >> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX; sdoshi@XXXXXX >> Subject: Re: Honda Dealer for 600 Mile Maintenance >> >> FYI valve adjustments require a completely cool (as in overnight) >> engine. >> >> Looks like they are not going to bother with it. Make sure you don't >> pay >> for >> one >> sunil http://widepipe.org/ride/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 5 17:45:53 2003 Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 14:45:49 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Partial Success. To: Fish Flowers , DC-Cycles --- Fish Flowers wrote: > Took the front caliper off, pulled the pads out, and > Eureka! there's the > problem. Both are _really_ worn, well below the wear marks. > What's worse, > the inboard pad seems to have flaked off about 66% of the > pad material, > and was down to bare metal. When they get down that far, you should really make sure you inspect the seals around the pistons too, in case they've been chewed up by stray metal from the pad backing. It's always a good idea to do that whenever you've got the calipers off. > So one question I have now is: should I also be concerned > about the rear > brake pads? If the front ones are this worn, perhaps I > should go rip the > rear caliper off and check that one too... Not likely to be in as bad shape as the fronts, but why take the chance? You should be able to eyeball them with a flashlight while standing on the brake pedal. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 5 18:08:31 2003 Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 18:08:34 -0500 To: Fish Flowers , DC-Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Partial Success. At 02:01 PM 11/5/03 -0800, Fish Flowers wrote: >So one question I have now is: should I also be concerned about the rear >brake pads? If the front ones are this worn, perhaps I should go rip the >rear caliper off and check that one too... If I, the non-mechanic, found my front pads that worn I'd certainly want to know what shape the rear ones are in. The front brake takes most of the load, but it's obviously been a while since that bike got any brake maintenance... Do you really have to pull the caliper to see how much pad is left on the rear? You can't see the pads while it's in place? Glad you are making progress. Just be cautious with it. Brakes are kinda critical to safety... -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 5 18:38:10 2003 Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 15:38:07 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Partial Success. To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 02:01 PM 11/5/03 -0800, Fish Flowers wrote: > > >So one question I have now is: should I also be concerned about the > rear > >brake pads? If the front ones are this worn, perhaps I should go rip > the > >rear caliper off and check that one too... > > If I, the non-mechanic, found my front pads that worn I'd certainly want > to > know what shape the rear ones are in. The front brake takes most of the > load, but it's obviously been a while since that bike got any brake > maintenance... Yea, while I make an effort on the Harley to use the front brakes, I found that I had quite a few miles left on them but the rear were down to metal at the edge when I changed the front and rear brakes back in August. I'd check them to be sure. > > Do you really have to pull the caliper to see how much pad is left on > the > rear? You can't see the pads while it's in place? > > Glad you are making progress. Just be cautious with it. Brakes are > kinda > critical to safety... > You're not telling me. In anticipation of rain today I took the Suzuki in to the office. On the way home while checking the right lane prior to changing, the truck in front of me slowed down almost to the point of stopping. When I looked forward he was mighty close. I grabbed a handful of front brake (and noted afterwards that I had a lighter footful of rear) and with a *squeak* of tires I stopped on a dime (and gave 5 cents change). Got lifted out of my seat as well. > -- Mike B. > Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 5 21:57:54 2003 Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 18:57:52 -0800 (PST) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Brakes ready, maybe. At the risk of summoning Gimer's ire, I have one last question. I have the new pads in the caliper, the caliper on the rotor and torqued to spec, and I've bled the system. So far as I can tell, the brakes are working just fine, thanks -- they have good grab and good feel. But. They're still making a soft sound when I rotate the wheel, as if the pads are contacting the rotor. I've never changed pads before -- is this a normal thing that'll go away after the pads break in, or have I managed to arse it up somehow? Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 5 22:02:05 2003 Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 19:01:57 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Brakes ready, maybe. To: Fish Flowers , DC-Cycles the pads will always be in contact with the rotor once the pistons have set them --- Fish Flowers wrote: > At the risk of summoning Gimer's ire, I have one last > question. I have the > new pads in the caliper, the caliper on the rotor and > torqued to spec, and > I've bled the system. So far as I can tell, the brakes > are working just > fine, thanks -- they have good grab and good feel. > > But. They're still making a soft sound when I rotate the > wheel, as if the > pads are contacting the rotor. I've never changed pads > before -- is this a > normal thing that'll go away after the pads break in, or > have I managed to > arse it up somehow? > > Fish. > ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 5 22:14:04 2003 Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 22:12:49 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: Fish Flowers CC: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Brakes ready, maybe. Item one - take a chill pill. Methinks you're fretting way too much. Test ride, brakes work = A-OK. Caliper brakes don't have return springs, and the pads will brush the rotors with brakes off. Sure, a wee bit of rotor runout will sorts push the pads away, but in a perfect system you'd havea tough time passing a the smallest unit of measurement - the RCH - betwixt the pad and rotor. Bill Fish Flowers wrote: > At the risk of summoning Gimer's ire, I have one last question. I have the > new pads in the caliper, the caliper on the rotor and torqued to spec, and > I've bled the system. So far as I can tell, the brakes are working just > fine, thanks -- they have good grab and good feel. > > But. They're still making a soft sound when I rotate the wheel, as if the > pads are contacting the rotor. I've never changed pads before -- is this a > normal thing that'll go away after the pads break in, or have I managed to > arse it up somehow? > > Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 5 22:19:08 2003 From: "LindaT." To: "Dc-Cycles \(Dc-Cycles\)" Subject: RE: Brakes ready, maybe. Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 22:18:35 -0500 Remember, you have to bed the new pads in. I've forgotten the process, but it's not too tough. I think it's something like - start out with light pressure on the lever and then get progressively more vigorous. It takes 50 miles or so to complete the process. If I'm mistaken, I'm sure someone will let us know. LindaT. http://www.customtankbags.com Now - TankBags for 1800 Wings Springfield, VA (suburb of our nation's capital) AMA IBA HSTA BMWBMW 99 R1100RT Mr. Buzzy 95 F3 Purple Haze 00 KLR250 Super Sherpa Tenzing From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 5 22:49:12 2003 Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 21:49:11 -0600 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Sean Jordan Subject: RE: Brakes ready, maybe. Linda wrote: >Remember, you have to bed the new pads in. I've forgotten the process, but >it's not too tough. I think it's something like - start out with light >pressure on the lever and then get progressively more vigorous. It takes 50 >miles or so to complete the process. > >If I'm mistaken, I'm sure someone will let us know. Different pads have different bed-in procedures. When I switched to Ferodo pads on my CBR, the bed-in procedure was given on the packaging. If it's not given with your brake pads, check the mfr.'s web-site, or consult whomever sold you the pads. -Sean Jordan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 00:43:33 2003 From: "stephen" To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: RE: Brakes ready, maybe. Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 00:41:53 -0500 Not arsed up, but with the pistons out that far for that long, I will just about guarantee you that there is a build-up of brake residue and other road-crud on the pistons preventing them from nicely receeding into their chambers. Brake clean and a tooth-brush, and then maybe some 400 paper to clean them up. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 07:49:03 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" , Fish Flowers , DC-Cycles Subject: Re: RE: More on Front Brake. Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 7:48:55 -0500 I'd say don't bother. I've never had any problems pushing the wheel cylinders in by hand. Bob Meyer > > From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" > Date: 2003/11/05 Wed PM 01:05:07 EST > To: Fish Flowers , DC-Cycles > Subject: RE: More on Front Brake. > > --- Fish Flowers wrote: > > > Shopping list so far: micrometer, cotter pins, DOT4 fluid, > > 6mm and 8mm hex > > bit sockets, pads, loctite. This could get _expensive_... > > As long as you're spending money, a caliper pad spreader tool > can be really useful too. Usually two pieces of metal > connected and pivoting in "X" fashion, with a c-clamp-like > slider handle at one end to apply force and spread the other > end. > > -- Larry > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 08:06:44 2003 Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 08:20:27 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Very lucky! http://home.iprimus.com.au/marsh/photogallery/photo26003/VIDEOS/kevsoff9.wmv -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 09:06:05 2003 Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 06:06:01 -0800 (PST) From: Aaron Subject: 1952 Vincent Black Lightning; 19?? Fish To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX The new iTunes for Windows service has Richard Thompson's version of 1952 Black Vincent. Very cool song. And, despite the more mechanically experienced of the group slamming on Fish for his questions, I gotta say that I admire the guy who's willing to head out to the garage and try to fix these things. He's admittedly never done this kind of work before, and I admire his gumption to try, as well as learn from the Q&A's from the list. >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >From: llarson@XXXXXX >Subject: On-Topic: Richard Thompson at the Birchmere Well, that would be because Richard Thompson is the author and best performer -- by far -- of the very best motorcycle song ever written, "1952 Vincent Black Lightning." Yes, better than "Eye of the Hurricane." Far better. Impossible for some people to hear without a tear forming, along with a damned near uncontrollable urge to go jump on the nearest old Brit bike and scream off into the night. If you haven't seen him, and you ever have the chance, go. But go on two wheels. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 10:43:27 2003 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'DCCycles'" Subject: More on Front Brake Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 10:47:31 -0500 Interesting to see this unfold on Digest. I had such goo-od answers but others have beat me to them. But, here's the few that haven't been answered as good as I woulda -- plus, some thrifty hints for those not eligible for the Sears discount: Muscle: Amen, a )B˝ inch break over bar is a handy tool. Pick one up at Auto Zone (or a yard sale); add a )B˝ to 3/8 adapter. Auto Zone also has hex socket sets for a song. Likely not as rugged as Craftsman/Mac/$nap-On but awfully handy for the price. Impact wrench: both Sears and Home Despot have identical $20 manual impact wrenches. Good enough for the occasional tough bolt. Anti-seize: Pick up a tube or tub and add it to any steel threads going into an alloy body (e.g. the screws holding the master cylinder lids on.). Liquid wrench. Ummm tasty. The PB blaster at WM & other places is pretty good too. There are some web sites that offer good advice for breaking stuck bolts . . .and (sigh) removing twisted off bolts. (Hint - anti seize is a Good Thing) Google: "Frozen bolts" Finesse: The Husky click torque wrench is identical to the Craftsman but ~$5 cheaper than Sears' sale price. Bar torque wrench (~$17) probably good-enough for most applications. C-clamps: the ones with the "speed adjustment" are excellent for brake work. I have a set of "Wolf Brand" 4' & 6" ones that are absolutely wunnerful. When replacing brake pads (or changing tires) spritz the caliper pistons with brake cleaner and polish them with 3M pad. Lube with silicone spray or ? Compress with the handy C-clamp. Bleeding: Great advice so far. Sears has combo wrenches with a six point box end. Ver-ry good for those wimpy brass nipples. $6.00 well spent if you've ever had to buy new nipples to replace the rounded off nipples. Mity-Vac: Some swear by it. I bought one at Auto Zone for $25 a coupla years ago but have not yet used it. After you're finished bleeding, compress the brake lever with bungee cords (1/4 inch block twixt grip and lever). Rotate the handle bar so the master cylinder is highest. Leave it overnight. Tap the hoses. Any tiny bubbles the bleeding missed will have risen overnight, and escaped out of the master cylinder. But . . . slowly loosen the top banjo bolt until fluid escapes then retighten. If only fluid escapes, you're a good bleeder - if a few bubbles escape, you owe me a quarter 8^D. See also: > Lube: The caliper slide back and forth on pins. These are (or should be) protected with neoprene boots. Still water gets in there and corrodes stuff. Then the caliper sticks, and constantly rubs the rotor. Not good for fuel mileage or rotor life. Sooo, it's a Good Thing to occasionally look and lube those pins with some high temperature caliper grease. Carl in Bethesda From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 11:45:33 2003 Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 08:45:14 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Ray Subject: Suzuki Dealers To: DC Cycles Well, after spending time on the side of the road enjoying the wonderful weather on Sunday (fixed the kz starter, but now have a clogged fuel tank/petcock/line or something), I'm tired of the joys of an old bike. Time for something new, that has better odds of running *every* time I hit the button. Thanks to the discussion of a bit ago, I'm focusing on the Bandit 1200s. I'm interested in the V-strom, but they're scarce, and that makes the dealers less willing to talk price. The Bandits are common, and I figure I'll have better luck working the price. Who's the better suzuki dealers in NoVA? I know the common opinion of Coleman's, but has anyone worked with the dealer in Manassas? Others? I'm in Alexandria. Is there any reason to go back to where you bought the bike for service? Do you get treated better? Opinions? Thanks, Brian __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 11:51:13 2003 Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 11:50:53 -0500 Subject: Motorcyclists Enliven Evenings in Old Town From: "John M. Stafford" To: Saints SC Mailing List , , DC-MD-PA-VA Scooters http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A3079-2003Nov5.html Odds & Ends By Chris L. Jenkins Thursday, November 6, 2003; Page VA02 Some residents and business owners in historic Old Town are fretting, albeit quietly, about leather-jacketed motorcyclists congregating on their Harleys along King Street between Fairfax and Union. The bikers usually come out on Wednesdays, Fridays and Saturdays, parking more than a dozen deep along the curb to hang out, take in some oysters at the Fish Market Restaurant and then roll out. Many in the community see nothing wrong with the bikers hanging out and riding their two-wheelers in peace. "I like them. This place needs something to shake it up every once in a while," said Nick Conne, who comes to Old Town three or four times a month with his girlfriend for the seafood and the vistas overlooking the Potomac. But at least one Old Town merchant has been leading a crusade against what he says is lewd behavior by the bikers and incessant rumbling of exhaust pipes. "The noise is unbelievable," Gordon King, owner of Bullfeathers, wrote in a letter to the City Council this summer. "They park in front of my restaurant . . . giving the impression that I'm some kind of biker bar." King didn't respond to two telephone calls seeking further explanation or comment. In his package of complaints sent to the city, King included half a dozen photographs and descriptions of various infractions by the bikers, including what he called "lewd" comments to passersby. City Council members were presented with the latest accusations over the summer and began to try to reach a compromise. Police said that the bikes don't violate noise laws and that bikers generally are nothing more than lawyers and other professionals looking to have a good time. "We're not really talking about the Hell's Angels here," said Amy Bertsch, an Alexandria police spokeswoman. She said police have monitored the activity for years and have always taken the concerns of the merchants seriously. Meanwhile, city officials said they have looked closely at the matter and will continue to monitor the bikers' behavior. They, too, point out that no laws have been broken. "It's been brought to our attention, but it seems like it's not much of a problem this fall," Council member Ludwig P. Gaines (D) said. Others noted that the bikers are not nearly as rowdy as in the past. "It's actually been worse in the past," said Rose Williams Boyd, director of citizen's assistance at City Hall, who in a memo to the City Council said bikers have been riding through the hallowed historic streets for a dozen years. Other merchants see an upside to the bikers' presence. "Hey, they pay money just like everybody else," said Glenda Giovanoni, owner of the Fish Market Restaurant, where many of the bikers dine. Enjoy, John M. Stafford From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 12:03:06 2003 Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 09:02:58 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: 1952 Vincent Black Lightning; 19?? Fish To: Aaron , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Aaron wrote: > The new iTunes for Windows service has Richard > Thompson's version of 1952 Black Vincent. Very cool > song. > > And, despite the more mechanically experienced of the > group slamming on Fish for his questions, I gotta say > that I admire the guy who's willing to head out to the > garage and try to fix these things. He's admittedly > never done this kind of work before, and I admire his > gumption to try, as well as learn from the Q&A's from > the list. i assume this is directed at me. "more mechanically experienced" is something i've NEVER been called. rather funny, actually, because i'm a known imbecile in the garage. however, with fish around, i've become somewhat of a genius. my problem with fish's methodology is that he had everything he needed right before his very eyes but refused to read it. and the "should i check the rear pads" comment simply threw me over the edge. my apologies to clymer. -- tg ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 12:16:32 2003 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Suzuki Dealers Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 12:04:41 -0500 Why not a private seller? Tons used, cheap. >From: Brian Ray >To: DC Cycles >Subject: Suzuki Dealers >Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 08:45:14 -0800 (PST) > >Well, after spending time on the side of the road >enjoying the wonderful weather on Sunday (fixed the kz >starter, but now have a clogged fuel tank/petcock/line >or something), I'm tired of the joys of an old bike. >Time for something new, that has better odds of >running *every* time I hit the button. > >Thanks to the discussion of a bit ago, I'm focusing on >the Bandit 1200s. I'm interested in the V-strom, but >they're scarce, and that makes the dealers less >willing to talk price. The Bandits are common, and I >figure I'll have better luck working the price. > >Who's the better suzuki dealers in NoVA? I know the >common opinion of Coleman's, but has anyone worked >with the dealer in Manassas? Others? I'm in >Alexandria. > >Is there any reason to go back to where you bought the >bike for service? Do you get treated better? > >Opinions? > >Thanks, > >Brian > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard >http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree > _________________________________________________________________ MSN Shopping upgraded for the holidays! Snappier product search... http://shopping.msn.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 12:21:59 2003 Subject: Re: Suzuki Dealers Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 11:21:00 -0600 From: To: , I think Whitt's is in Manassas. Been in there once or twice, seemed like a good family owned outfit Anyone is better than Colemans George >>> Brian Ray 11/06/03 11:45AM >>> Who's the better suzuki dealers in NoVA? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 12:23:56 2003 Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 09:23:54 -0800 (PST) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: 1952 Vincent Black Lightning; 19?? Fish On Thu, 6 Nov 2003, Tom Gimer wrote: > my problem with fish's methodology is that he had everything he needed > right before his very eyes but refused to read it. and the "should i > check the rear pads" comment simply threw me over the edge. my > apologies to clymer. Hey, Gimer, I think you've proven your point by now. Any time you feel like laying off the public abuse, that's just fine by me. And, yeah, I had all the information in front of me; I just didn't understand it, so I asked the list for clarification. Ignorant newbies thinking aloud and asking clarification, raise your hands! *does* Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 12:33:20 2003 Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 12:33:21 -0500 To: Fish Flowers , DC-Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: 1952 Vincent Black Lightning; 19?? Fish At 09:23 AM 11/6/03 -0800, Fish Flowers wrote: >And, yeah, I had all the information in front of me; I just didn't >understand it, so I asked the list for clarification. Ignorant newbies >thinking aloud and asking clarification, raise your hands! *does* *here too* When in doubt, ask. If just the other side of doubt, guess...and hope for correction if you were wrong. ;^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 12:43:41 2003 Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 09:42:51 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: 1952 Vincent Black Lightning; 19?? Fish To: Fish Flowers , DC-Cycles --- Fish Flowers wrote: > Hey, Gimer, I think you've proven your point by now. Any > time you feel > like laying off the public abuse, that's just fine by me. It's a lawyer, Fish. Just ignore it and it'll go chase another ambulance. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 12:46:04 2003 Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 09:45:58 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Motorcyclists Enliven Evenings in Old Town To: "John M. Stafford" , DC Cycles Good for the onwer of Bull Feathers. I have been sitting in an open air restaurant in Old Town when my wine glass litterally slid off the table at the rumble of a parked Harley which just HAD to be reveed a few times before leaving. And laws are being broken, both motorcycle equipment laws and noise ordiances. ===== www.deanforamerica.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 12:57:39 2003 Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 09:57:31 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: 1952 Vincent Black Lightning; 19?? Fish To: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" , Fish Flowers , DC-Cycles --- "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" wrote: > --- Fish Flowers wrote: > > Hey, Gimer, I think you've proven your point by now. > Any > > time you feel > > like laying off the public abuse, that's just fine by > me. > > It's a lawyer, Fish. Just ignore it and it'll go chase > another ambulance. here we go again. i don't do personal injury work. -- tg __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 12:58:19 2003 Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 12:56:33 -0500 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: omni@XXXXXX, fish@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: 1952 Vincent Black Lightning; 19?? Fish X-AOL-IP: 65.86.98.162 In a message dated 11/6/2003 12:33:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, omni@XXXXXX writes: > > > At 09:23 AM 11/6/03 -0800, Fish Flowers wrote: > > >And, yeah, I had all the information in front of me; I just didn't > >understand it, so I asked the list for clarification. Ignorant newbies > >thinking aloud and asking clarification, raise your hands! *does* > > *here too* > > When in doubt, ask. If just the other side of doubt, guess...and hope for > correction if you were wrong. ;^) > > -- Mike B. *same here* I'm mechanically challenged so, I take mine to the dealer. Cycle Sport in Alexandria has always been good to me. It's where I've taken my bike to be worked on since I started riding in '97. And, it's where I bought my R6 new. They all know me by name when I walk in and have never given me any reason to complain. Scooter From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 13:03:02 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Fish Flowers" , "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: 1952 Vincent Black Lightning; 19?? Fish Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 13:01:49 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fish Flowers" > On Thu, 6 Nov 2003, Tom Gimer wrote: > > > my problem with fish's methodology is that he had everything he needed > > right before his very eyes but refused to read it. and the "should i > > check the rear pads" comment simply threw me over the edge. my > > apologies to clymer. > > Hey, Gimer, I think you've proven your point by now. Any time you feel > like laying off the public abuse, that's just fine by me. > > And, yeah, I had all the information in front of me; I just didn't > understand it, so I asked the list for clarification. Ignorant newbies > thinking aloud and asking clarification, raise your hands! *does* > > Fish. > Fish has the courage to say "I not sure about this and I need some help." There are plenty of people whose egos won't allow them to do that. Sure, "RTFM" is often the answer, but I appreciate the wrenching tips on here, even for routine and seemingly obvious things. I pick up better procedures and shortcuts I never would have discovered on my own. Yes, *do* check those rear pads, Fish. :) Although your fronts should wear out long before the rear. I usually give the pads a good inspection (and other things like wheel bearings) every time I change tires. That's about every 8,000 miles on the VFR. Sometimes we forget there was a time when we didn't know this stuff. I'm glad that those who were older and wiser had the patience to answer my "dumb questions" and didn't just snarl and say, "go RTFM, kid." Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 13:05:04 2003 Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 13:04:55 -0500 (EST) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: 1952 Vincent Black Lightning; 19?? Fish On Thu, 6 Nov 2003, Tom Gimer wrote: > > It's a lawyer, Fish. Just ignore it and it'll go chase > > another ambulance. > > here we go again. i don't do personal injury work. > No, you just make personally injurious remarks. -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 13:29:21 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: Subject: Re: More on Front Brake Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 13:29:12 -0500 Good points, Carl. Let me add one more: Never, NEVER use brake cleaner to clean inside the wheel cylinder. Or the master cylinder for that matter. It will destroy the rubber parts. Use only clean, new brake fluid to clean the internal parts. When using it to clean the piston, make sure the piston is out of the cylinder so none gets on the rubber parts. It doesn't hurt to clean the brake disk(s) with some brake cleaner before you reassemble things, too. But keep it off the tires. Always use a new, unopened container of brake fluid. Brake fluid is hygroscopic, meaning it absorbs water out of the atmosphere. Water in your brake lines is a bad thing. Never mix DOT 5 with DOT 3 or DOT 4 brake fluid. In fact, don't use DOT 5 on a street bike at all. DOT 5.1 is okay, but unnecessary. HTH, Bob Meyer > > From: "Custer, Carl" > Date: 2003/11/06 Thu AM 10:47:31 EST > To: "'DCCycles'" > Subject: More on Front Brake > > Interesting to see this unfold on Digest. > I had such goo-od answers but others have beat me to them. But, here's the > few that haven't been answered as good as I woulda -- plus, some thrifty > hints for those not eligible for the Sears discount: > > Muscle: > Amen, a )B˝ inch break over bar is a handy tool. Pick one up at Auto Zone > (or a yard sale); add a )B˝ to 3/8 adapter. > Auto Zone also has hex socket sets for a song. Likely not as rugged as > Craftsman/Mac/$nap-On but awfully handy for the price. > Impact wrench: both Sears and Home Despot have identical $20 manual impact > wrenches. Good enough for the occasional tough bolt. > Anti-seize: Pick up a tube or tub and add it to any steel threads going into > an alloy body (e.g. the screws holding the master cylinder lids on.). > Liquid wrench. Ummm tasty. The PB blaster at WM & other places is pretty > good too. > There are some web sites that offer good advice for breaking stuck bolts . . > .and (sigh) removing twisted off bolts. (Hint - anti seize is a Good Thing) > Google: "Frozen bolts" > > Finesse: > The Husky click torque wrench is identical to the Craftsman but ~$5 cheaper > than Sears' sale price. Bar torque wrench (~$17) probably good-enough for > most applications. > C-clamps: the ones with the "speed adjustment" are excellent for brake work. > I have a set of "Wolf Brand" 4' & 6" ones that are absolutely wunnerful. > When replacing brake pads (or changing tires) spritz the caliper pistons > with brake cleaner and polish them with 3M pad. Lube with silicone spray or > ? Compress with the handy C-clamp. > > Bleeding: Great advice so far. > Sears has combo wrenches with a six point box end. Ver-ry good for those > wimpy brass nipples. $6.00 well spent if you've ever had to buy new nipples > to replace the rounded off nipples. > Mity-Vac: Some swear by it. I bought one at Auto Zone for $25 a coupla > years ago but have not yet used it. > After you're finished bleeding, compress the brake lever with bungee cords > (1/4 inch block twixt grip and lever). Rotate the handle bar so the master > cylinder is highest. Leave it overnight. Tap the hoses. Any tiny bubbles > the bleeding missed will have risen overnight, and escaped out of the master > cylinder. But . . . slowly loosen the top banjo bolt until fluid escapes > then retighten. If only fluid escapes, you're a good bleeder - if a few > bubbles escape, you owe me a quarter 8^D. > See also: > > > Lube: > The caliper slide back and forth on pins. These are (or should be) > protected with neoprene boots. Still water gets in there and corrodes stuff. > Then the caliper sticks, and constantly rubs the rotor. Not good for fuel > mileage or rotor life. Sooo, it's a Good Thing to occasionally look and > lube those pins with some high temperature caliper grease. > > Carl in Bethesda > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 13:34:16 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: DC-Cycles Subject: Learning about motorcycle repair Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 13:34:08 -0500 There's no teacher like experience. Unfortunately, learning motorcycle repair that way can be an expensive proposition. Let's not count the number of busted bolts, frozen master cylinders, fried electrics,etc. we've "experienced" over the years. This thread on brakes reminds me of a site I hadn't looked at in a long time: Dan's Motorcycle Repair Course at http://www.dansmc.com/MC_repaircourse.htm It's not as good as having an experienced friend over to help, but it's a lot better than nothing. And it's a lot cheaper (free) than a real repair school. For the novice mechanics among us (and maybe the not-so-novice) it's got a lot of good information. HTH, Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 '02 ST1100A, '92 ST1100, '02 919, "Asphalt" If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 13:40:59 2003 Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 10:40:57 -0800 (PST) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Learning about motorcycle repair On Thu, 6 Nov 2003, Bob Meyer wrote: > This thread on brakes reminds me of a site I hadn't looked at in a long > time: Dan's Motorcycle Repair Course at > > http://www.dansmc.com/MC_repaircourse.htm Oo. Thank you. Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 14:12:19 2003 Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 11:12:16 -0800 (PST) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: Learning about motorcycle repair To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Please take the course!!! Glenn --- Fish Flowers wrote: > On Thu, 6 Nov 2003, Bob Meyer wrote: > > > This thread on brakes reminds me of a site I > hadn't looked at in a long > > time: Dan's Motorcycle Repair Course at > > > > http://www.dansmc.com/MC_repaircourse.htm > > Oo. Thank you. > > Fish. > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 14:33:46 2003 Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 14:02:11 -0500 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Motorcyclists Enliven Evenings in Old Town To: DC Cycles >Good for the onwer of Bull Feathers. [Dave] Good for the Alexandria Police for telling the owner of Bull Feathers to GO FLY A KITE. What a crock of $hit. This guy is complaining that it makes his place "look like a biker bar"... To hell with him... What this turd needs is a biker boycott. He's complaining about his place's image. The Fish Market seems to be perfectly fine with receiving Biker dollars - and Kudos to her for that. > I have been >sitting in an open air restaurant in Old Town when my >wine glass litterally slid off the table at the rumble >of a parked Harley which just HAD to be reveed a few >times before leaving. [Dave] Old town is not the place to test your open pipes. Those who are novices with open pipes don't realize that the close in buildings alters the tenor of the echo, so it's got a flat, hollow sound instead of the desirable ear-splitting rumble... :-/ Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 14:53:50 2003 Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 11:53:42 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Ray Subject: Re: Suzuki Dealers To: DC Cycles Rich - To be honest, I haven't seen that many great deals on used Bandits. I also like the idea of warranty, and I don't want to inherit someone else's problem bike. I'm sure I'll be able to cause enough problems of my own without a PO's help. Finally, the 2003 bandit's are pretty cheap right now. Most of the places are knocking $1k of the sticker to begin with, which brings it down to $6300 or so. I'm hoping I'll be able to do better than that, or at least get some freebies. Brian --- rich hall wrote: > Why not a private seller? Tons used, cheap. > > >From: Brian Ray > >To: DC Cycles > >Subject: Suzuki Dealers > >Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 08:45:14 -0800 (PST) > > > >Well, after spending time on the side of the road > >enjoying the wonderful weather on Sunday (fixed the > kz > >starter, but now have a clogged fuel > tank/petcock/line > >or something), I'm tired of the joys of an old > bike. > >Time for something new, that has better odds of > >running *every* time I hit the button. > > > >Thanks to the discussion of a bit ago, I'm focusing > on > >the Bandit 1200s. I'm interested in the V-strom, > but > >they're scarce, and that makes the dealers less > >willing to talk price. The Bandits are common, and > I > >figure I'll have better luck working the price. > > > >Who's the better suzuki dealers in NoVA? I know > the > >common opinion of Coleman's, but has anyone worked > >with the dealer in Manassas? Others? I'm in > >Alexandria. > > > >Is there any reason to go back to where you bought > the > >bike for service? Do you get treated better? > > > >Opinions? > > > >Thanks, > > > >Brian > > > >__________________________________ > >Do you Yahoo!? > >Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > >http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN Shopping upgraded for the holidays! Snappier > product search... > http://shopping.msn.com > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 14:54:33 2003 Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 14:53:19 -0500 To: "Paul Wilson" , "Fish Flowers" , "DC-Cycles" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: 1952 Vincent Black Lightning; 19?? Fish At 01:01 PM 11/6/03 -0500, Paul Wilson wrote: >Sometimes we forget there was a time when we didn't know this stuff. I'm >glad that those who were older and wiser had the patience to answer my "dumb >questions" and didn't just snarl and say, "go RTFM, kid." I've RTFM for my bike. It's got lots of useful things to say...like torque values, what lubes to use, what order to do various procedures in, and some decent pics that show where things are and how they are attached (which came in very handy when I was recently bolting on some accessories and the instructions that came with the accessories were slightly out of date...showed nuts where the latest models have "nut plates" (which are much better BTW! :^) for example). What the service manuals don't show/tell are little details about what *not* to do (except the most egregious practices, like oiling your brake pads), *how* to inspect various things, and how to get the work done if you don't have "special tool XXXX", or a fully-equipped professional shop. They also don't tell you where to buy the various tools, fluids and parts required. The service manuals assume you are an experienced and trained mechanic working in a fully-equipped professional shop with all the required supplies provided to you by the parts counter. This is fine, that's who they are written for, but it does leave some parts out for those of us who want to do at least some of the simpler procedures on our own. The posts here by those who have the experience are really helpful and educational, and I appreciate every one of them, even if they apply to bikes I don't own and never will own...most of the info is adaptable to some extent, and worth being aware of anyway. Thanks guys! -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 15:01:06 2003 Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 14:59:23 -0500 To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX, From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: More on Front Brake At 01:29 PM 11/6/03 -0500, Bob Meyer wrote: >Never mix DOT 5 with DOT 3 or DOT 4 brake fluid. In fact, don't use DOT 5 on a street bike at all. DOT 5.1 is okay, but unnecessary. Agree totally on the mixing...DOT 3 and 4 are completely different, chemically, from DOT 5...but why not DOT 5 for a street bike? It's what my manual says to use for my new Harley, and is presumably what's in there now. DOT 5 is silicon-based, handles higher temps without breaking down, and doesn't eat paint if you spill any. Sounds better to me... :^) What's the diff between DOT 5 and DOT 5.1? This is the first I've heard of there being a DOT 5.1, so I'm curious. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 15:17:10 2003 Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 15:17:12 -0500 To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX, From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: More on Front Brake At 02:59 PM 11/6/03 -0500, Mike Bartman wrote: >What's the diff between DOT 5 and DOT 5.1? This is the first I've heard of >there being a DOT 5.1, so I'm curious. A quick Google search turned up some info. Apparently DOT 5 and DOT 5.1 are not related at all...despite the appearance from the names. DOT 5 is silicon-based, but DOT 5.1 is not. DOT 5.1 is a less viscous, higher boiling point brake fluid that is compatible with DOT 3 and DOT 4, so you can "upgrade" to it if you like. It is apparently better for systems equipped with ABS, as the lower viscosity makes it flow through the little valves more easily. At least one brand I found claims that 5.1 will also dissolve various gunks left behind by 3 or 4. Seems to be intended for ABS systems, or for DOT 3 or 4 users who want the higher boiling point of DOT 5 without replacing their brake systems to get it. Sound about right? -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 15:25:15 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: Mike Bartman , Subject: Re: Re: More on Front Brake Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 15:25:03 -0500 > From: Mike Bartman > Agree totally on the mixing...DOT 3 and 4 are completely different, > chemically, from DOT 5...but why not DOT 5 for a street bike? It's what my > manual says to use for my new Harley, and is presumably what's in there > now. DOT 5 is silicon-based, handles higher temps without breaking down, > and doesn't eat paint if you spill any. Sounds better to me... :^) Ahh, I knew I should have kept my mouth shut. I really don't know WHY Harley uses DOT 5, but since they do I would stick with it. As for why, in general, I wouldn't use it in a street bike not specifically designed for it: DOT 3 and 4 are hygroscopic. They absorb water. In some ways this is a bad thing, since water in your brake fluid lowers the boiling point. But for street use, it's unlikely you're ever going to have enough water in the fluid (unless you park your bike with the master cylinder resevoir open ), AND get the brakes hot enought, long enough, for boiling the fluid to become a problem. Even really hard rides up and down 211 don't keep the brakes hot for a long enough period to worry about. (Really hard rides on the dragon might, I suppose). This iw why I don't understand why Harley uses it. Harley riders just aren't likely to get their brakes really hot. Maybe they choose it so as not to risk damage to really expensive paint jobs. Silicone brake fluid, which is what DOT 5 is. This is NOT hygroscopic. Sounds like a good thing, right? And with proper maintenance, it is. But the brake system on any street vehicle is going to absorb some water. And since DOT 5 brake fluid doesn't absorb it, where does it go? Believe it or not, it's denser that silicone brake fluid, so it builds up in the lowest and hottest part of the brake system, the wheel cylinder. Where it boils FASTER than DOT 3 or 4, and where it can cause corrosion of steel brake parts. Maybe Harley uses stainless steel down there. If you're racing, the advantages of DOT 5 are well worth it, especially since racers are likely to be much more on top of maintenance, which should include fairly frequent brake inspection and bleeding to get any water out. On the street, DOT 4 works fine. > > What's the diff between DOT 5 and DOT 5.1? This is the first I've heard of > there being a DOT 5.1, so I'm curious. DOT 5.1 is especially designed for high speed ABS systems. Regular mineral oil brake fluid can be too thick to allow some of these systems to cycle at their design specs (over 100 cycles per second in some cases). So DOT 5.1 is a special low viscosity brake fluid. As far as I know, it's completely compatible with DOT 3 and 4, but there's no reason to pay for it unless your vehicle calls for it. BUT, unlike what most people would assume from the numbering scheme, DOT 5.1 isn't an upgraded version of DOT 5 silicone fluid. It's still mineral oil based, like DOT 3 and 4. This naming convention is an example of the government just not understanding the concept. It should have been named DOT 4.1. Just to add to the confusion, I've seen *synthetic* brake fluid on the shelves. Claims to be completely compatible with DOT 3 and 4, at about twice the price. Quite a bit higher boiling point, but I'm not sure how it compares to silicone fluid in that regard. Hope that clears everything up. Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 '02 ST1100A, '92 ST1100, '02 919, "Asphalt" If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 16:30:38 2003 Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 16:30:39 -0500 To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX, From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Re: More on Front Brake At 03:25 PM 11/6/03 -0500, Bob Meyer wrote: >Ahh, I knew I should have kept my mouth shut. I really don't know WHY Harley uses DOT 5, but since they do I would stick with it. Yeah, my understanding is that once you have 3 or 4 in the system, you stick with it (or go to 5.1 I guess). If you started with 5, you stay with 5. Mixing them is a bad idea...though I'm not sure why. I presume that one causes the other to degrade or gunk up or something. >This iw why I don't understand why Harley uses it. Harley riders just aren't likely to get their brakes really hot. Maybe they choose it so as not to risk damage to really expensive paint jobs. Could be, or it might just be the "higher BP is better, even if you don't need it all the time, just in case". It's also possible that the heavier bikes do get hotter brakes (mine has a max GVW of over 1200 lbs). Or maybe it's the location of the rear master cylinder right down near the pipes and engine on some models, with the brake line running past lots of hot parts to get to the rear caliper. I can see it getting pretty warm along the way. >Silicone brake fluid, which is what DOT 5 is. This is NOT hygroscopic. Sounds like a good thing, right? And with proper maintenance, it is. But the brake system on any street vehicle is going to absorb some water. And since DOT 5 brake fluid doesn't absorb it, where does it go? Believe it or not, it's denser that silicone brake fluid, so it builds up in the lowest and hottest part of the brake system, the wheel cylinder. On the front brake this is true. For the rear brake on my bike, the lowest point is actually at the master cylinder, with the highest point at the rear caliper. > Maybe Harley uses stainless steel down there. Ummm...dunno. >BUT, unlike what most people would assume from the numbering scheme, DOT 5.1 isn't an upgraded version of DOT 5 silicone fluid. It's still mineral oil based, like DOT 3 and 4. This naming convention is an example of the government just not understanding the concept. It should have been named DOT 4.1. Or maybe DOT 6? I agree that naming it 5.1 is likely to cause problems for someone at some point, who assumes that it's DOT 5 with improvements, and is therefore an acceptable substitute. Bad Government! I think they must have inhaled... :^) >Just to add to the confusion, I've seen *synthetic* brake fluid on the shelves. Claims to be completely compatible with DOT 3 and 4, at about twice the price. Quite a bit higher boiling point, but I'm not sure how it compares to silicone fluid in that regard. I'd have to go look up the BPs of all of them to know, but I did find a page selling that stuff. Called it "DOT 3/4". >Hope that clears everything up. Yep! Thanks! -- Mike B. "The national budget must be balanced. The public debt must be reduced; the arrogance of the authorities must be moderated and controlled. Payments to foreign governments must be reduced, if the nation doesn't want to go bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance." -- Marcus Tullius Cicero, 55 B.C. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 16:43:16 2003 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Suzuki Dealers Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 16:43:08 -0500 I got a '02 SVS out door in March for 5600, believe list was ~6300 before all the other junk. Should be able to get more off, I believe the big Bandit cost more than the SV, so proportionally... That was from Champion in Hendon. I didn't want a new bike, but at that price. Factor in that $250 oil change too. Suzuki often gives away $500 in accessories. Having already had a bike, that wouldn't help me a lot. >From: Brian Ray >To: DC Cycles >Subject: Re: Suzuki Dealers >Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 11:53:42 -0800 (PST) > >Rich - > >To be honest, I haven't seen that many great deals on >used Bandits. I also like the idea of warranty, and I >don't want to inherit someone else's problem bike. >I'm sure I'll be able to cause enough problems of my >own without a PO's help. > >Finally, the 2003 bandit's are pretty cheap right now. > Most of the places are knocking $1k of the sticker to >begin with, which brings it down to $6300 or so. I'm >hoping I'll be able to do better than that, or at >least get some freebies. > >Brian > >--- rich hall wrote: > > Why not a private seller? Tons used, cheap. > > > > >From: Brian Ray > > >To: DC Cycles > > >Subject: Suzuki Dealers > > >Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 08:45:14 -0800 (PST) > > > > > >Well, after spending time on the side of the road > > >enjoying the wonderful weather on Sunday (fixed the > > kz > > >starter, but now have a clogged fuel > > tank/petcock/line > > >or something), I'm tired of the joys of an old > > bike. > > >Time for something new, that has better odds of > > >running *every* time I hit the button. > > > > > >Thanks to the discussion of a bit ago, I'm focusing > > on > > >the Bandit 1200s. I'm interested in the V-strom, > > but > > >they're scarce, and that makes the dealers less > > >willing to talk price. The Bandits are common, and > > I > > >figure I'll have better luck working the price. > > > > > >Who's the better suzuki dealers in NoVA? I know > > the > > >common opinion of Coleman's, but has anyone worked > > >with the dealer in Manassas? Others? I'm in > > >Alexandria. > > > > > >Is there any reason to go back to where you bought > > the > > >bike for service? Do you get treated better? > > > > > >Opinions? > > > > > >Thanks, > > > > > >Brian > > > > > >__________________________________ > > >Do you Yahoo!? > > >Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > > >http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > MSN Shopping upgraded for the holidays! Snappier > > product search... > > http://shopping.msn.com > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard >http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree > _________________________________________________________________ MSN Shopping upgraded for the holidays! Snappier product search... http://shopping.msn.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 16:44:12 2003 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Suzuki Dealers Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 16:44:04 -0500 Another prob I had was the SVS was only 2 yrs old then. Not that many used ones yet. >From: Brian Ray >To: DC Cycles >Subject: Re: Suzuki Dealers >Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 11:53:42 -0800 (PST) > >Rich - > >To be honest, I haven't seen that many great deals on >used Bandits. I also like the idea of warranty, and I >don't want to inherit someone else's problem bike. >I'm sure I'll be able to cause enough problems of my >own without a PO's help. > >Finally, the 2003 bandit's are pretty cheap right now. > Most of the places are knocking $1k of the sticker to >begin with, which brings it down to $6300 or so. I'm >hoping I'll be able to do better than that, or at >least get some freebies. > >Brian > >--- rich hall wrote: > > Why not a private seller? Tons used, cheap. > > > > >From: Brian Ray > > >To: DC Cycles > > >Subject: Suzuki Dealers > > >Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 08:45:14 -0800 (PST) > > > > > >Well, after spending time on the side of the road > > >enjoying the wonderful weather on Sunday (fixed the > > kz > > >starter, but now have a clogged fuel > > tank/petcock/line > > >or something), I'm tired of the joys of an old > > bike. > > >Time for something new, that has better odds of > > >running *every* time I hit the button. > > > > > >Thanks to the discussion of a bit ago, I'm focusing > > on > > >the Bandit 1200s. I'm interested in the V-strom, > > but > > >they're scarce, and that makes the dealers less > > >willing to talk price. The Bandits are common, and > > I > > >figure I'll have better luck working the price. > > > > > >Who's the better suzuki dealers in NoVA? I know > > the > > >common opinion of Coleman's, but has anyone worked > > >with the dealer in Manassas? Others? I'm in > > >Alexandria. > > > > > >Is there any reason to go back to where you bought > > the > > >bike for service? Do you get treated better? > > > > > >Opinions? > > > > > >Thanks, > > > > > >Brian > > > > > >__________________________________ > > >Do you Yahoo!? > > >Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > > >http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > MSN Shopping upgraded for the holidays! Snappier > > product search... > > http://shopping.msn.com > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard >http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree > _________________________________________________________________ Send a QuickGreet with MSN Messenger http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/cdp_games From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 16:47:16 2003 Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 13:47:08 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: 1952 Vincent Black Lightning; 19?? Fish To: Fish Flowers , DC-Cycles --- Fish Flowers wrote: > On Thu, 6 Nov 2003, Tom Gimer wrote: > > > my problem with fish's methodology is that he had > everything he needed > > right before his very eyes but refused to read it. and > the "should i > > check the rear pads" comment simply threw me over the > edge. my > > apologies to clymer. > > Hey, Gimer, I think you've proven your point by now. Any > time you feel > like laying off the public abuse, that's just fine by me. public abuse? oh, the fucking drama that is dc-cycles.... > And, yeah, I had all the information in front of me; I > just didn't > understand it, so I asked the list for clarification. > Ignorant newbies > thinking aloud and asking clarification, raise your > hands! *does* if you truly consider yourself an "ignorant newbie," you should not be messing with the braking system on a motorcycle. -- tg ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 16:54:46 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Mike Bartman , rmeyer9@XXXXXX, Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: Re: More on Front Brake Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 16:55:23 -0500 DOT 3 & 4 absorb water and mitigate rust and corrosion in brake calipurs and line, ect. DOT 5 does not absorb water and as such the water more easily rusts and corrodes your parts from the inside out. The use of DOT 5 fluid requires you to bleed and flush your brake systems more frequently. I provides better braking under high heat and pressure, hence the use in a lot of high proformance applications. However they also count on a high proformance system to be maintained as such and often times casual riders and drivers don't perform this maintenance. DOT 5.1 does absorb water I "think". It is also non-silicone based. However it's higher proformance than DOT 3&4. I don't have any clue why it's called DOT 5.1 because they are COMPLETELY difference brake fluids. Rob On Thu, 06 Nov 2003 14:59:23 -0500, Mike Bartman wrote > At 01:29 PM 11/6/03 -0500, Bob Meyer wrote: > > >Never mix DOT 5 with DOT 3 or DOT 4 brake fluid. In fact, don't use DOT 5 > on a street bike at all. DOT 5.1 is okay, but unnecessary. > > Agree totally on the mixing...DOT 3 and 4 are completely different, > chemically, from DOT 5...but why not DOT 5 for a street bike? It's > what my manual says to use for my new Harley, and is presumably > what's in there now. DOT 5 is silicon-based, handles higher temps > without breaking down, and doesn't eat paint if you spill any. > Sounds better to me... :^) > > What's the diff between DOT 5 and DOT 5.1? This is the first I've > heard of there being a DOT 5.1, so I'm curious. > > -- Mike B. > > **************************************************************************** > * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation > Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled > Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options > Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *------------------------------ > --------------------------------------------* * "We do it > all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 16:56:14 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Mike Bartman , rmeyer9@XXXXXX, Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: Re: More on Front Brake Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 16:56:56 -0500 DOT 3 & 4 absorb water and mitigate rust and corrosion in brake calipurs and line, ect. DOT 5 does not absorb water and as such the water more easily rusts and corrodes your parts from the inside out. The use of DOT 5 fluid requires you to bleed and flush your brake systems more frequently. I provides better braking under high heat and pressure, hence the use in a lot of high proformance applications. However they also count on a high proformance system to be maintained as such and often times casual riders and drivers don't perform this maintenance. DOT 5.1 does absorb water. It is also non-silicone based. However it's higher proformance than DOT 3&4. I don't have any clue why it's called DOT 5.1 because they are COMPLETELY difference brake fluids. Here is a cool link that explains it. http://www.vtr.org/maintain/brake-fluids.html Rob On Thu, 06 Nov 2003 14:59:23 -0500, Mike Bartman wrote > At 01:29 PM 11/6/03 -0500, Bob Meyer wrote: > > >Never mix DOT 5 with DOT 3 or DOT 4 brake fluid. In fact, don't use DOT 5 > on a street bike at all. DOT 5.1 is okay, but unnecessary. > > Agree totally on the mixing...DOT 3 and 4 are completely different, > chemically, from DOT 5...but why not DOT 5 for a street bike? It's > what my manual says to use for my new Harley, and is presumably > what's in there now. DOT 5 is silicon-based, handles higher temps > without breaking down, and doesn't eat paint if you spill any. > Sounds better to me... :^) > > What's the diff between DOT 5 and DOT 5.1? This is the first I've > heard of there being a DOT 5.1, so I'm curious. > > -- Mike B. > > **************************************************************************** > * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation > Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled > Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options > Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *------------------------------ > --------------------------------------------* * "We do it > all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 17:24:21 2003 Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 14:24:17 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Hold the presses, how did we miss this? Dr. Gridlock To: DC Cycles Some Motorcyclists Court Danger Thursday, November 6, 2003; Page AA21 Dear Dr. Gridlock: There are many very responsible motorcyclists who are courteous drivers and respect the rules of the road. But I've noticed a few things that some of them do that put them in danger. Many times in stop-and-go traffic, I've seen a motorcyclist drive between lanes of cars or up either of the shoulders, so they don't have to sit in line like everyone else. Most of the time I don't even see them until they are passing my vehicle. How many have been hurt, or nearly hurt, doing that? How about staying within the lanes? Lastly, how about keeping your speed below 100 mph? ===== www.deanforamerica.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 17:27:13 2003 Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 14:27:11 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Hold the presses, how did we miss this? Dr. Gridlock To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Must have been in the DC or MD section since I didn't see it in the VA section. Carl --- Mark Kitchell wrote: > Some Motorcyclists Court Danger > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 17:38:21 2003 Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 14:38:12 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Motorcyclists Enliven Evenings in Old Town To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- "John M. Stafford" wrote: > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A3079-2003Nov5.html > Odds & Ends > By Chris L. Jenkins > Thursday, November 6, 2003; Page VA02 > > Some residents and business owners in historic Old Town are fretting, > albeit quietly, about leather-jacketed motorcyclists congregating on > their Harleys along King Street between Fairfax and Union. The bikers > usually come out on Wednesdays, Fridays and Saturdays, parking more > than a dozen deep along the curb to hang out, So that's like, four parking spaces? Five? Damn, everyone's going to have to walk an extra block. > take in some oysters at > the Fish Market Restaurant and then roll out. > Jeeze, and they're not even there all day. > But at least one Old Town merchant has been leading a crusade against > what he says is lewd behavior by the bikers and incessant rumbling of > exhaust pipes. > > "The noise is unbelievable," Gordon King, owner of Bullfeathers, wrote > in a letter to the City Council this summer. "They park in front of my > restaurant . . . giving the impression that I'm some kind of biker > bar." King didn't respond to two telephone calls seeking further > explanation or comment. Hmm, a quick Streets & Trips check. Ahh, he's the next door neighbor to the Fish Market Restaurant. That explains it. He's upset because they're getting all the business and are taking one or two of his parking spots. > > In his package of complaints sent to the city, King included half a > dozen photographs and descriptions of various infractions by the > bikers, including what he called "lewd" comments to passersby. > > City Council members were presented with the latest accusations over the > summer and began to try to reach a compromise. Police said that the > bikes don't violate noise laws and that bikers generally are nothing > more than lawyers and other professionals looking to have a good time. Damn those biker lawyers (sorry Tom :-) and professionals (must mean me and my pocket protector) > > "We're not really talking about the Hell's Angels here," said Amy > Bertsch, an Alexandria police spokeswoman. She said police have > monitored the activity for years and have always taken the concerns of > the merchants seriously. > > Meanwhile, city officials said they have looked closely at the matter > and will continue to monitor the bikers' behavior. They, too, point > out that no laws have been broken. "It's been brought to our > attention, but it seems like it's not much of a problem this fall," > Council member Ludwig P. Gaines (D) said. So much for this pointless waste of newsprint/newsbits. "We've checked it out, we watch them, lighten up." > > Others noted that the bikers are not nearly as rowdy as in the past. > > "It's actually been worse in the past," said Rose Williams Boyd, > director of citizen's assistance at City Hall, who in a memo to the > City Council said bikers have been riding through the hallowed > historic streets for a dozen years. Hey, it could be Daytona. Wouldn't that get his knickers in a twist? > > Other merchants see an upside to the bikers' presence. > > "Hey, they pay money just like everybody else," said Glenda Giovanoni, > owner of the Fish Market Restaurant, where many of the bikers dine. Yea, but not at Bullsh*^H^Hfeathers. > > Enjoy, > John M. Stafford > I think we should have a bike night on alternate nights and show them just how much better the sport bikers are ;-) Evil Overlord Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 17:38:40 2003 Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 17:38:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Suzuki Dealers Cc: DC Cycles To: Brian Ray From: Randy Moran On Thursday, November 6, 2003, at 11:45 AM, Brian Ray asked about local Suzuki dealers. Brian, I've been dealing with Whitt's for a few years. They're a small shop, off the beaten path in Manassas, VA. They have no sales staff, so Chris Taylor, the shop GM, handles pretty much every sale himself (no "lemme ask my manager" bullshit, which is nice). The shop is owned by a man named Tom Davison who also owns Whitt's H-D. While Chris will definitely deal on matters of price, I wouldn't consider Whitt's the price leader when it comes to dealers within a half day's drive. That honor goes to Romney Cycles in rural West Virginia; I've never bought from them, but I've heard that they tend to blow the street/sport bikes out the door since their business is mainly ATVs. That leads me to the second part of your question, i.e. service after the sale. In my experience, the cold harsh reality is that if you buy a bike from one dealer to take advantage of a low price, don't expect to get preferential treatment at another dealer when it comes to getting the bike serviced. As franchise licensees, all dealers are required to handle warranty claims and service repairs, however they are in charge of their own service departments and schedules and they can really screw you when it comes doing work for you, sometimes blowing you off for months or more while you wait to have work done. Anyway, the guys at Whitt's are very cool, and I'm sure Chris will do his best to sell you a bike at a price you can both live with. If you go there, don't tell him Randy Moran sent you; he'll look at you like you're retarded and tack on a couple hundred extra dollars to the final price. Randy Moran http;//www.geocities.com/rajmoran From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 17:40:59 2003 Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 14:40:56 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Suzuki Dealers To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Actually Whitt's is a Harley dealer. Got my first one there. Unless there's another Whitt's dealer in town. Carl --- George.Cole@XXXXXX wrote: > I think Whitt's is in Manassas. Been in there once or twice, seemed like > a > good family owned outfit > > Anyone is better than Colemans > > George > > > > >>> Brian Ray 11/06/03 11:45AM >>> > Who's the better suzuki dealers in NoVA? > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 17:58:16 2003 Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 17:54:23 -0500 To: "Rob Sharp" , rmeyer9@XXXXXX, From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: More on Front Brake Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX At 04:56 PM 11/6/03 -0500, Rob Sharp wrote: >DOT 3 & 4 absorb water and mitigate rust and corrosion in brake calipurs and >line, ect. > >DOT 5 does not absorb water and as such the water more easily rusts and >corrodes your parts from the inside out. The web page you referenced claims that DOT 3 & 4 and 5.1 absorb water, and therefore tend to rust the system from the inside out...they don't mitigate rust and corrosion at all, they actually tend to promote it. It also says that DOT 5 doesn't absorb water, instead allowing it to "puddle", which can result in *localized* rusting of components. Seems to me that if you have a tight system, you won't get much water into it to start with using DOT 5, and if you bleed the brakes periodically to remove what water has accumulated, you are less likely to get widespread, or even localized, rusting with DOT 5 than with the other types, since you only need to remove the "puddles", rather than replace all the fluid and flush the whole system to remove water that's been distributed through it in the brake fluid. Perhaps that's why Harley chose DOT 5? If I ever get to chat with a H-D brake engineer, I'll ask! :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 18:04:41 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Carl Schelin" , Subject: Re: Suzuki Dealers Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 18:04:07 -0500 Nope, Whitt's is actually two dealerships: H-D and, much to the dismay of the Milwaukee faithful I'm sure, Suzuki. Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Schelin" > Actually Whitt's is a Harley dealer. Got my first one there. Unless > there's another Whitt's dealer in town. > > Carl > > --- George.Cole@XXXXXX wrote: > > I think Whitt's is in Manassas. Been in there once or twice, seemed like > > a > > good family owned outfit > > > > Anyone is better than Colemans > > > > George From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 18:08:47 2003 Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 15:08:42 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Suzuki Dealers To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Really? Where's the Suzuki dealership? I mean, since I have a suzuki it might be interesting to drop by :-) Carl --- Paul Wilson wrote: > Nope, Whitt's is actually two dealerships: H-D and, much to the dismay > of > the Milwaukee faithful I'm sure, Suzuki. > > Paul in DC > 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Carl Schelin" > > > > > Actually Whitt's is a Harley dealer. Got my first one there. Unless > > there's another Whitt's dealer in town. > > > > Carl > > > > --- George.Cole@XXXXXX wrote: > > > I think Whitt's is in Manassas. Been in there once or twice, seemed > like > > > a > > > good family owned outfit > > > > > > Anyone is better than Colemans > > > > > > George > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 18:11:19 2003 Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 15:11:17 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Suzuki Dealers To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cool, I never knew. I'm going to have to head down there Saturday after we stop in Alexandria and have lunch at the Fish Market ;-) Carl --- Randy Moran wrote: > On Thursday, November 6, 2003, at 11:45 AM, Brian Ray asked about local > Suzuki dealers. > > Brian, > > I've been dealing with Whitt's for a few years. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 18:14:25 2003 Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 15:14:20 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: 1952 Vincent Black Lightning; 19?? Fish To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Paul Wilson wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > Sometimes we forget there was a time when we didn't know this stuff. > I'm glad that those who were older and wiser had the patience to answer my > "dumb questions" and didn't just snarl and say, "go RTFM, kid." > Just do what I do. It's a free list. Don't take it too seriously and remember, you get what you pay for ;-) Maybe a bike night is necessary so we can mingle. > Paul in DC > 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 18:16:45 2003 Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 15:16:40 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Learning about motorcycle repair To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Bob Meyer wrote: > > This thread on brakes reminds me of a site I hadn't looked at in a long > time: Dan's Motorcycle Repair Course at > > http://www.dansmc.com/MC_repaircourse.htm > Hey, it's been a while since I've been out there too. Thanks for reminding me. I used him to get knowledge on cleaning my Honda carbs and understanding the coils/electrical system. Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 18:20:12 2003 Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 15:20:07 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: 1952 Vincent Black Lightning; 19?? Fish To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 01:01 PM 11/6/03 -0500, Paul Wilson wrote: > > What the service manuals don't show/tell are little details about what > *not* to do (except the most egregious practices, like oiling your brake > pads), *how* to inspect various things, and how to get the work done if > you don't have "special tool XXXX", or a fully-equipped professional > shop. They also don't tell you where to buy the various tools, fluids > and parts required. Actually it does have a Harley part number for the specialized tool if needed to perform the work like for changing the oil filter (an example I remember). And you buy everything at the Harley dealer, of course ;-) > > -- Mike B. > Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 18:23:38 2003 Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 15:23:35 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: More on Front Brake To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 01:29 PM 11/6/03 -0500, Bob Meyer wrote: > > >Never mix DOT 5 with DOT 3 or DOT 4 brake fluid. In fact, don't use > DOT 5 on a street bike at all. DOT 5.1 is okay, but unnecessary. > > Agree totally on the mixing...DOT 3 and 4 are completely different, > chemically, from DOT 5...but why not DOT 5 for a street bike? It's what > my manual says to use for my new Harley, and is presumably what's in > there now. DOT 5 is silicon-based, handles higher temps without > breaking down, and doesn't eat paint if you spill any. Sounds better > to me... :^) > It's because of the size of the bike and the brake quality (for lack of a better word). Several of the magazines I've read have mentioned changing the calipers out for something that stops the bike better. (Sorry for all the posting. It was rather busy at work these past couple of days so I'm behind on a project.) > > -- Mike B. > Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 18:35:38 2003 Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 15:35:30 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Motorcyclists Enliven Evenings in Old Town To: DC Cycles --- Mark Kitchell wrote: > Good for the onwer of Bull Feathers. I have been > sitting in an open air restaurant in Old Town... Yeah, but it wasn't Bullshitters. Bullshitters bar and dining area are set back further from the street than any other restaurant in Old Town, and have several intervening doorways to kill noise too. Nice bar, shithead owner. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 18:36:54 2003 Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 15:36:50 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: 1952 Vincent Black Lightning; 19?? Fish To: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: >... It's > where I've taken my bike to be worked on since I started > riding in '97. And, it's where I bought my R6 new. They > all know me by name when I walk in and have never given me > any reason to complain. Thought most of the staff, like the manager Gerald, had only been there about a year? -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 18:37:39 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Mike Bartman , rmeyer9@XXXXXX, Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: Re: More on Front Brake Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 18:38:22 -0500 The water absorbent versions of brake fluid (Dot 3,4&51) absorb and diffuse the water throughout the system. This help mitigate the accelerated corrosion that happens in DOT 5 brake fluid where the water pools at the lowest point, which is usually your calipur. The web page I referenced only to compare the types of brake fluids, I don't actually agree with everything on it. I believe that pooled water in a brake system will cause corrosion a lot faster and that it actually makes it harder to get the water out of a brake system when you bleed it. Where as in DOT 3&4 brake fluid the water is actually diluted in the fluid and evacuated during a flush and refill. Regards, Rob On Thu, 06 Nov 2003 17:54:23 -0500, Mike Bartman wrote > At 04:56 PM 11/6/03 -0500, Rob Sharp wrote: > >DOT 3 & 4 absorb water and mitigate rust and corrosion in brake calipurs and > >line, ect. > > > >DOT 5 does not absorb water and as such the water more easily rusts and > >corrodes your parts from the inside out. > > The web page you referenced claims that DOT 3 & 4 and 5.1 absorb > water, and therefore tend to rust the system from the inside > out...they don't mitigate rust and corrosion at all, they actually > tend to promote it. > > It also says that DOT 5 doesn't absorb water, instead allowing it to > "puddle", which can result in *localized* rusting of components. > > Seems to me that if you have a tight system, you won't get much > water into it to start with using DOT 5, and if you bleed the brakes > periodically to remove what water has accumulated, you are less > likely to get widespread, or even localized, rusting with DOT 5 than > with the other types, since you only need to remove the "puddles", > rather than replace all the fluid and flush the whole system to > remove water that's been distributed through it in the brake fluid. > Perhaps that's why Harley chose DOT 5? If I ever get to chat with a > H-D brake engineer, I'll ask! :^) > > -- Mike B. > > **************************************************************************** > * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation > Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled > Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options > Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *------------------------------ > --------------------------------------------* * "We do it > all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 18:39:04 2003 Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 15:39:01 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: 1952 Vincent Black Lightning; 19?? Fish To: DC-Cycles --- Tom Gimer wrote: > here we go again. i don't do personal injury work. I know. It was another cheap lawyer joke. But you've gotta admit, the Duc would be a perfect vehicle for the chase... You could do a commercial for a personal injury firm on the 99x. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 19:08:53 2003 Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 19:08:36 -0500 Subject: Re: Suzuki Dealers Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX To: Carl Schelin From: Randy Moran Whitt's Suzuki is on Commerce Ct, near Liberia Ave in Manassas. The old Whitt's H-D used to be there, but that's moved over near the Judicial Complex into a more "boutique"-like shop typical of the contemporary H-D scene. Phone for Whitt's Suzuki is (703) 393-7181 RPM On Thursday, November 6, 2003, at 06:08 PM, Carl Schelin wrote: > Really? Where's the Suzuki dealership? I mean, since I have a suzuki it > might be interesting to drop by :-) > > Carl > > --- Paul Wilson wrote: >> Nope, Whitt's is actually two dealerships: H-D and, much to the >> dismay >> of >> the Milwaukee faithful I'm sure, Suzuki. >> >> Paul in DC >> 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Carl Schelin" >> >> >> >>> Actually Whitt's is a Harley dealer. Got my first one there. Unless >>> there's another Whitt's dealer in town. >>> >>> Carl >>> >>> --- George.Cole@XXXXXX wrote: >>>> I think Whitt's is in Manassas. Been in there once or twice, seemed >> like >>>> a >>>> good family owned outfit >>>> >>>> Anyone is better than Colemans >>>> >>>> George >> > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 19:27:43 2003 Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 16:27:40 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Suzuki Dealers To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Thanks. I'll check it out. East Coast Harley did the same thing. Their old shop was a few doors down where the lawn mower dealer(?) is now. Carl --- Randy Moran wrote: > Whitt's Suzuki is on Commerce Ct, near Liberia Ave in Manassas. The old > Whitt's H-D used to be there, but that's moved over near the Judicial > Complex into a more "boutique"-like shop typical of the contemporary > H-D scene. > > Phone for Whitt's Suzuki is (703) 393-7181 > > RPM > > On Thursday, November 6, 2003, at 06:08 PM, Carl Schelin wrote: > > > Really? Where's the Suzuki dealership? I mean, since I have a suzuki > it > > might be interesting to drop by :-) > > > > Carl > > > > --- Paul Wilson wrote: > >> Nope, Whitt's is actually two dealerships: H-D and, much to the > >> dismay > >> of > >> the Milwaukee faithful I'm sure, Suzuki. > >> > >> Paul in DC > >> 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Carl Schelin" > >> > >> > >> > >>> Actually Whitt's is a Harley dealer. Got my first one there. Unless > >>> there's another Whitt's dealer in town. > >>> > >>> Carl > >>> > >>> --- George.Cole@XXXXXX wrote: > >>>> I think Whitt's is in Manassas. Been in there once or twice, seemed > >> like > >>>> a > >>>> good family owned outfit > >>>> > >>>> Anyone is better than Colemans > >>>> > >>>> George > >> > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > > http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 19:54:53 2003 From: "Gary Foreman" To: "'Brian Ray'" , "'DC Cycles'" Subject: RE: Suzuki Dealers Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 19:56:09 -0500 I know it's more of a trip, but I can't say enough good things about Kevin at Romney Cycle. I've found no one to beat his prices...or his honesty. Tell him I sent you. (304) 822-3933 Gary -----Original Message----- From: Brian Ray [mailto:bdaleray@XXXXXX] Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 11:45 AM To: DC Cycles Subject: Suzuki Dealers Well, after spending time on the side of the road enjoying the wonderful weather on Sunday (fixed the kz starter, but now have a clogged fuel tank/petcock/line or something), I'm tired of the joys of an old bike. Time for something new, that has better odds of running *every* time I hit the button. Thanks to the discussion of a bit ago, I'm focusing on the Bandit 1200s. I'm interested in the V-strom, but they're scarce, and that makes the dealers less willing to talk price. The Bandits are common, and I figure I'll have better luck working the price. Who's the better suzuki dealers in NoVA? I know the common opinion of Coleman's, but has anyone worked with the dealer in Manassas? Others? I'm in Alexandria. Is there any reason to go back to where you bought the bike for service? Do you get treated better? Opinions? Thanks, Brian __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 20:02:34 2003 Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 20:16:11 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Suzuki Dealers On Thu, 6 Nov 2003, Randy Moran wrote: > That leads me to the second part of your question, i.e. service after > the sale. In my experience, the cold harsh reality is that if you buy a > bike from one dealer to take advantage of a low price, don't expect to > get preferential treatment at another dealer when it comes to getting > the bike serviced. As franchise licensees, all dealers are required to > handle warranty claims and service repairs, however they are in charge > of their own service departments and schedules and they can really > screw you when it comes doing work for you, sometimes blowing you off > for months or more while you wait to have work done. This is true and the salespeople will sometimes even tell you this :-) When I bought my 'Busa, I got a quote over the phone from Romney and called my local dealer (JT Motorsports). Told them to get within $200 and I'd be there in 10 mins. I've never had a shop service my bikes, but the benefit of developing a relationship with JT has been parts and accessories. They will beat online prices I get from places like Ron Ayers and they generally have shorter wait times than ordering online :-) -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 20:18:43 2003 Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 17:18:37 -0800 (PST) From: John Kozyn Subject: Re: Moron Front Brakes To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Hey DC Guys 'n Gals, Thanks much to Bob Meyer for that great Moto Repair site URL; I never knew of it before. Definitely worth a bookmark. Re brake pad bedding, I read somewhere recently that what racers do is to keep the brake lever slightly depressed while running the bike. This didn't seem like the right thing to do for 50 miles or so while heading down I-66, but I did do it for _several_ miles. Less of a PITA than the parking lot start-stop and the Ducati seems to stop quite smoothly now. Not sure if I saw it in today's digest or not, but calipers can and will hang up a bit w/ grunge etc and you can't always push them in by hand. This is evidenced by significant wear on _one_ pad and not the other. If that's the case, then a caliper rebuild is in order. Not a real big deal, but new dust/fluid seals should be used then. JK (D-mode) 1999 900SS 1995 VFR750F __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 21:24:52 2003 Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 18:24:47 -0800 (PST) From: dcpatti Subject: Re: Learning about motorcycle repair To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX, DC-Cycles --- Bob Meyer wrote: > There's no teacher like experience. I've got a bunch of projects planned for over the winter, including a frame-up rebuild/restoration, at least one motor-ectomy, and all kinds of minor/medium jobs. I'll be the first to admit that there is a lot that I don't know but I do know a lot and I'm lucky enough to have a brilliant and patient teacher for the things I don't know. I'd be glad to share the knowledge with someone who doesn't mind turning a lot of wrenches and doing some manual labor. If you're interested, hit me off-list. Cheers, Patti __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 22:13:01 2003 Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 22:11:40 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: Carl Schelin CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: More on Front Brake Carl Schelin wrote: > --- Mike Bartman wrote: > > At 01:29 PM 11/6/03 -0500, Bob Meyer wrote: > > > > >Never mix DOT 5 with DOT 3 or DOT 4 brake fluid. In fact, don't use > > DOT 5 on a street bike at all. DOT 5.1 is okay, but unnecessary. > > > > Agree totally on the mixing...DOT 3 and 4 are completely different, > > chemically, from DOT 5...but why not DOT 5 for a street bike? It's what > > my manual says to use for my new Harley, and is presumably what's in > > there now. DOT 5 is silicon-based, handles higher temps without > > breaking down, and doesn't eat paint if you spill any. Sounds better > > to me... :^) > > > > It's because of the size of the bike and the brake quality (for lack of a > better word). Several of the magazines I've read have mentioned changing > the calipers out for something that stops the bike better. > > (Sorry for all the posting. It was rather busy at work these past couple > of days so I'm behind on a project.) > Harley brakes work just fine for the style of bike they're on. If I can lock up either or both wheels, how much better can they get? The swap talked about is a switch from old style rotors to new free floating rotors and the newer calipers, which I think have more pads. Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 22:16:37 2003 Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 22:15:26 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: Carl Schelin CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: 1952 Vincent Black Lightning; 19?? Fish Carl Schelin wrote: > --- Mike Bartman wrote: > > At 01:01 PM 11/6/03 -0500, Paul Wilson wrote: > > > > What the service manuals don't show/tell are little details about what > > *not* to do (except the most egregious practices, like oiling your brake > > pads), *how* to inspect various things, and how to get the work done if > > you don't have "special tool XXXX", or a fully-equipped professional > > shop. They also don't tell you where to buy the various tools, fluids > > and parts required. > > Actually it does have a Harley part number for the specialized tool if > needed to perform the work like for changing the oil filter (an example I > remember). > > And you buy everything at the Harley dealer, of course ;-) HAR HAR HAR! Yeah, H-D part # sumpin or other, also known as a filter wrench. Sheesh, I've rebuilt Mopar automatic trannys without buying, renting, or using one single *special* tool listed in the Mopar manual. Of course, I'm very creative and own a few REALLY HUGE HAMMERS! :-) Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 22:27:21 2003 Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 22:18:44 -0500 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Suzuki Dealers At 03:08 PM 11/6/03 -0800, Carl Schelin wrote: >Really? Where's the Suzuki dealership? I mean, since I have a suzuki it >might be interesting to drop by :-) Since you also have a Harley, it would be good to be careful about which one you go to with which bike! :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 22:27:22 2003 Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 22:27:23 -0500 To: "Rob Sharp" , rmeyer9@XXXXXX, From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: More on Front Brake Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX At 06:38 PM 11/6/03 -0500, Rob Sharp wrote: >The web page I referenced only to compare the types of brake fluids, I don't >actually agree with everything on it. I believe that pooled water in a brake >system will cause corrosion a lot faster and that it actually makes it harder >to get the water out of a brake system when you bleed it. Where as in DOT >3&4 brake fluid the water is actually diluted in the fluid and evacuated >during a flush and refill. That makes sense...though I'm not sure why pooling in the caliper would make it harder to get the water out...wouldn't it be the first stuff to come out when you bleed the brakes? As for which causes corrosion the most, and where, I guess I'll find out. I've had DOT 3 and 4 in cars for years, and I've now got DOT 5 in my bike. Time will tell. :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 6 22:27:23 2003 Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 22:23:50 -0500 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: 1952 Vincent Black Lightning; 19?? Fish At 03:20 PM 11/6/03 -0800, Carl Schelin wrote: > >--- Mike Bartman wrote: >> At 01:01 PM 11/6/03 -0500, Paul Wilson wrote: >> >> What the service manuals don't show/tell are little details about what >> *not* to do (except the most egregious practices, like oiling your brake >> pads), *how* to inspect various things, and how to get the work done if >> you don't have "special tool XXXX", or a fully-equipped professional >> shop. They also don't tell you where to buy the various tools, fluids >> and parts required. > >Actually it does have a Harley part number for the specialized tool if >needed to perform the work like for changing the oil filter (an example I >remember). Yeah, like Ford used to have "special Ford tool TP-blahdeblah" all through their manuals...but they didn't say where to get them. Presumably through a dealership, but they didn't say... :^) >And you buy everything at the Harley dealer, of course ;-) You sure can...but I've noticed that there are alternatives, both in who's tool to get, and whether you really need a special tool in the first place. Take the "C-clamp brake piston retractor" idea posted here recently for example. Or the bleeder "kit" consisting of a bit of plastic tubing. You don't get stuff like that in the service manual! :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 7 02:35:22 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Mike Bartman , rmeyer9@XXXXXX, Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: Re: More on Front Brake Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 02:36:03 -0500 Well since DOT 5 doesn't absorb water the more dense liquid (water) will head to the lowest point, which is usually the caliber. If you look at a brake caliber the bleed valve is on the top and the line doesn't usually come in at the lowest point be usually pretty close. So your not getting all the fluid out of the system (specifically the water at the very bottom) unless you remove the caliper and really give it a once over. However with DOT 3,4,5.1 you can be lazier because the water is absorbed in the the fluid so when you change the fluid and bleed the system with everything still on the bike you get lets say 95% of the fluid out and hence 95% of the water. My view is if it's easier to maintain I like it better. :) Regards, Rob On Thu, 06 Nov 2003 22:27:23 -0500, Mike Bartman wrote > > That makes sense...though I'm not sure why pooling in the caliper would > make it harder to get the water out...wouldn't it be the first stuff > to come out when you bleed the brakes? > > As for which causes corrosion the most, and where, I guess I'll find > out. I've had DOT 3 and 4 in cars for years, and I've now got DOT 5 > in my bike. Time will tell. :^) > > -- Mike B. > > **************************************************************************** > * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation > Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled > Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options > Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *------------------------------ > --------------------------------------------* * "We do it > all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 7 06:51:46 2003 Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 03:51:43 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: More on Front Brake To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- "William J. Huson" wrote: > Carl Schelin wrote: > > > --- Mike Bartman wrote: > > > At 01:29 PM 11/6/03 -0500, Bob Meyer wrote: > > > > > Harley brakes work just fine for the style of bike they're on. If I can > lock up either or both wheels, how much better can they get? The swap > talked about is a switch from old style rotors to new free floating > rotors and the newer calipers, which I think have more pads. > You're probably right. Maybe it's the Avons but my front and rear brakes don't seem to have the stopping power they used to. New pads and fluid front and rear. > Bill > Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 7 06:54:24 2003 Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 03:54:22 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Suzuki Dealers To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 03:08 PM 11/6/03 -0800, Carl Schelin wrote: > >Really? Where's the Suzuki dealership? I mean, since I have a suzuki it > >might be interesting to drop by :-) > > Since you also have a Harley, it would be good to be careful about which > one you go to with which bike! :^) > I've gone to East Coast on the Suzuki and to Coleman's and MFI on the Harley. So far I haven't taken any heat. I should ride the Suzuki in the Toy Run though :-) > -- Mike B. Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 7 07:07:46 2003 Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 07:06:31 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: Carl Schelin CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: More on Front Brake Carl Schelin wrote: > --- "William J. Huson" wrote: > > Carl Schelin wrote: > > > > > --- Mike Bartman wrote: > > > > At 01:29 PM 11/6/03 -0500, Bob Meyer wrote: > > > > > > > > Harley brakes work just fine for the style of bike they're on. If I can > > lock up either or both wheels, how much better can they get? The swap > > talked about is a switch from old style rotors to new free floating > > rotors and the newer calipers, which I think have more pads. > > > > You're probably right. Maybe it's the Avons but my front and rear brakes > don't seem to have the stopping power they used to. New pads and fluid > front and rear. I use whatever Dunlops came on the bike. Thinking about braided SS brake lines, supposed to be an improvement, and the lines on my bike are OEM `93. Also use OEM pads. My thoughts, except in rare cases, the engineers have it all figured out, and the Harley systems seem to fit the bike very well. Heavy cruiser, riding style ol' fart chugging down the highway... Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 7 07:22:13 2003 Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 04:21:50 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Ray Subject: Extended Warranties? To: DC Cycles Ok, any general thoughts on the value of these? I'd been thinking of looking to get one when I buy the new bike, but am waivering. On an intellectual sense, like any insurance, they (the dealer/ins. co.) know the odds, and price of the warranty reflects that. Still, if I can negotiate a discounted price? Any thoughts? Since the Bandit 1200 is an older model, with a more proven design, have they worked the bugs out? I know there was an issue with oil consumption, but it seems the late 2002/2003 models have been fixed... Thanks, Brian __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 7 07:34:27 2003 Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 04:34:24 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: 1952 Vincent Black Lightning; 19?? Fish To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 03:20 PM 11/6/03 -0800, Carl Schelin wrote: > > > >--- Mike Bartman wrote: > >> At 01:01 PM 11/6/03 -0500, Paul Wilson wrote: > >> > >> What the service manuals don't show/tell are little details about > what > >> *not* to do (except the most egregious practices, like oiling your > brake > >> pads), *how* to inspect various things, and how to get the work done > if > >> you don't have "special tool XXXX", or a fully-equipped professional > >> shop. They also don't tell you where to buy the various tools, fluids > >> and parts required. > > > >Actually it does have a Harley part number for the specialized tool if > >needed to perform the work like for changing the oil filter (an example > I > >remember). > > Yeah, like Ford used to have "special Ford tool TP-blahdeblah" all > through their manuals...but they didn't say where to get them. > Presumably through a dealership, but they didn't say... :^) > Well, since they're Harley parts, I'd have to assume from the dealer. Especially since even service had me speak to Parts to determine when my fuel pump assembly was arriving. I suspect I can order just about anything from the parts department. > >And you buy everything at the Harley dealer, of course ;-) > > You sure can...but I've noticed that there are alternatives, both in > who's tool to get, and whether you really need a special tool in the > first place. > Take the "C-clamp brake piston retractor" idea posted here recently for > example. Or the bleeder "kit" consisting of a bit of plastic tubing. > You don't get stuff like that in the service manual! :^) Not to keep going down this road, but either the Service Manual or the instruction sheet on the genuine harley brake pads does say to use a paint scraper to retract the pads when replacing them. Granted you don't _need_ to use a specialized oil filter wrench, however there is a reason for the requirement. In our case, due to poor engineering they put a sensor right next to the oil filter and if you use a regular filter wrench you _could_ damage the sensor. If you decide to use a regular wrench you now know to pay attention to the sensor (I'd use one of the rubber/leather grips instead of a full cap but I also bought the Harley Filter Wrench[tm]) When I changed the oil on the Suzuki I didn't get a single drop of oil on the ground. It has a higher ground clearance and the oil filter is at the lowest point. I did have to wipe off the exhaust pipes though. You have to admit that the position of the filter on the Harley isn't in the best place for spotless changing. But hey, that's the price we pay :-) > > -- Mike B. > Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 7 07:46:24 2003 Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 04:46:21 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: More on Front Brake To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- "William J. Huson" wrote: > Carl Schelin wrote: > > > --- "William J. Huson" wrote: > > > Carl Schelin wrote: > > > > > > > --- Mike Bartman wrote: > > > > > At 01:29 PM 11/6/03 -0500, Bob Meyer wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Harley brakes work just fine for the style of bike they're on. If I > can > > > lock up either or both wheels, how much better can they get? The > swap > > > talked about is a switch from old style rotors to new free floating > > > rotors and the newer calipers, which I think have more pads. > > > > > > > You're probably right. Maybe it's the Avons but my front and rear > brakes > > don't seem to have the stopping power they used to. New pads and fluid > > front and rear. > > I use whatever Dunlops came on the bike. Thinking about braided SS > brake > lines, supposed to be an improvement, and the lines on my bike are OEM > `93. > Also use OEM pads. My thoughts, except in rare cases, the engineers > have it > all figured out, and the Harley systems seem to fit the bike very well. > Heavy > cruiser, riding style ol' fart chugging down the highway... > I added NessTech extenders for my forward controls which provided braided brake lines. I am using OEM pads and brake fluid. Could it be that with the softer Avons I have a better grip on the pavement which affects the brakes. In other words, I've exchanged the gripping power of the brakes for the gripping power of the tires. My stopping range is longer but I have a lesser chance of skidding. Hmm. I'm not sure which is better or if it's an even exchange. > Bill > Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 7 08:09:01 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Suzuki Dealers Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 8:08:54 -0500 Witts and East Coast revamped their dealerships because Harley now has strict guidelines that dealerships must conform to, or lose their franchise. The guidelines include amount of floor space, amount dedicated to clothing and accessories, brightness, style, etc. Harley, I've read, makes more money from licensing clothing and accessories than from motorcycles. Can't keep that revenue stream up if would be purchasers are afraid to go into the dealers, now can we? Bob Meyer > > From: Carl Schelin > Date: 2003/11/06 Thu PM 07:27:40 EST > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Suzuki Dealers > > Thanks. I'll check it out. > > East Coast Harley did the same thing. Their old shop was a few doors down > where the lawn mower dealer(?) is now. > > Carl > > --- Randy Moran wrote: > > Whitt's Suzuki is on Commerce Ct, near Liberia Ave in Manassas. The old > > Whitt's H-D used to be there, but that's moved over near the Judicial > > Complex into a more "boutique"-like shop typical of the contemporary > > H-D scene. > > > > Phone for Whitt's Suzuki is (703) 393-7181 > > > > RPM > > > > On Thursday, November 6, 2003, at 06:08 PM, Carl Schelin wrote: > > > > > Really? Where's the Suzuki dealership? I mean, since I have a suzuki > > it > > > might be interesting to drop by :-) > > > > > > Carl > > > > > > --- Paul Wilson wrote: > > >> Nope, Whitt's is actually two dealerships: H-D and, much to the > > >> dismay > > >> of > > >> the Milwaukee faithful I'm sure, Suzuki. > > >> > > >> Paul in DC > > >> 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > > >> From: "Carl Schelin" > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>> Actually Whitt's is a Harley dealer. Got my first one there. Unless > > >>> there's another Whitt's dealer in town. > > >>> > > >>> Carl > > >>> > > >>> --- George.Cole@XXXXXX wrote: > > >>>> I think Whitt's is in Manassas. Been in there once or twice, seemed > > >> like > > >>>> a > > >>>> good family owned outfit > > >>>> > > >>>> Anyone is better than Colemans > > >>>> > > >>>> George > > >> > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > > > http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 7 08:32:18 2003 Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 08:32:10 -0500 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Extended Warranties? To: DC Cycles Brian asks: >Ok, any general thoughts on the value of these? [Dave] Depends on what you're going to use the bike for, the type of vehicle, and it's reliability record. As a general rule, I consider the expense to be not needed, with some explanation. 1st, Japanese L4's are pretty darn reliable out of the box. 2nd, mfr.'s usually tie "loaner vehicles" to extended warranties, but I don't know of any situation that someone has been offered a "loaner bike" on a bike warranty repair... With that said, moto repairs can be pretty time consuming relatively speaking... The mechanic is everything in the equation. My Cobra threw a timing chain tensioner ( 32 valve v8 ). The idle was lumpy, but there was no loss of mid & upper range power. Totally undetectable to the computer apparently. I eventually initiated an afermarket (allstate) warranty repair with a locally known Mustang mechanic. He should've seen this immediately after the front cover was off, but he, or one of his talking monkeys missed it, and soaked the warranty company for hundreds more dollars and me for more time. I did purchase a factory warranty after that. One nice thing about the factory warranty for cages - Once they cross the profitability threshold, they just replace the motor lock stock & barrel, send it back to the factory for analysis. And, they have far more resources readily available. >On an intellectual sense, like any insurance, they >(the dealer/ins. co.) know the odds, and price of the >warranty reflects that. > >Still, if I can negotiate a discounted price? [Dave] Everything is negotiable at purchase, subject to the market & how badly the seller wants your business and you as a repeat customer. Don't hesitate to negotiate on a warranty if you opt for it... You're not buying a 1k or 'Buser... > >Any thoughts? [Dave] Save the $$$ and buy used? cheaper insurance too... HTH Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 7 08:52:07 2003 Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 08:50:54 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: Brian Ray CC: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Extended Warranties? My personal opinion - extended warrenties blow goats. I sold them when in the boat bizz. The basic figures - cost me (the dealer) $350, sold them for $700-$750, making a tidy profit on the deal. So YES, you should try to cut a bargain if you decide to blow goats and get one. My experiance thru friends who had them is the warrenty company pays for the small shit and always sems to find an *out* for big shit. Bottom line, they ain't worth shit. Bill Brian Ray wrote: > Ok, any general thoughts on the value of these? > > I'd been thinking of looking to get one when I buy the > new bike, but am waivering. > > On an intellectual sense, like any insurance, they > (the dealer/ins. co.) know the odds, and price of the > warranty reflects that. > > Still, if I can negotiate a discounted price? > > Any thoughts? Since the Bandit 1200 is an older > model, with a more proven design, have they worked the > bugs out? I know there was an issue with oil > consumption, but it seems the late 2002/2003 models > have been fixed... > > Thanks, > > Brian > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 7 08:53:37 2003 Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 08:52:26 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: Carl Schelin CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: 1952 Vincent Black Lightning; 19?? Fish Carl Schelin wrote: > --- Mike Bartman wrote: > > At 03:20 PM 11/6/03 -0800, Carl Schelin wrote: > > > > > >--- Mike Bartman wrote: > > >> At 01:01 PM 11/6/03 -0500, Paul Wilson wrote: > > >> > > >> What the service manuals don't show/tell are little details about > > what > > >> *not* to do (except the most egregious practices, like oiling your > > brake > > >> pads), *how* to inspect various things, and how to get the work done > > if > > >> you don't have "special tool XXXX", or a fully-equipped professional > > >> shop. They also don't tell you where to buy the various tools, fluids > > >> and parts required. > > > > > >Actually it does have a Harley part number for the specialized tool if > > >needed to perform the work like for changing the oil filter (an example > > I > > >remember). > > > > Yeah, like Ford used to have "special Ford tool TP-blahdeblah" all > > through their manuals...but they didn't say where to get them. > > Presumably through a dealership, but they didn't say... :^) > > > > Well, since they're Harley parts, I'd have to assume from the dealer. > Especially since even service had me speak to Parts to determine when my > fuel pump assembly was arriving. I suspect I can order just about anything > from the parts department. > > > >And you buy everything at the Harley dealer, of course ;-) > > > > You sure can...but I've noticed that there are alternatives, both in > > who's tool to get, and whether you really need a special tool in the > > first place. > > Take the "C-clamp brake piston retractor" idea posted here recently for > > example. Or the bleeder "kit" consisting of a bit of plastic tubing. > > You don't get stuff like that in the service manual! :^) > > Not to keep going down this road, but either the Service Manual or the > instruction sheet on the genuine harley brake pads does say to use a paint > scraper to retract the pads when replacing them. Granted you don't _need_ > to use a specialized oil filter wrench, however there is a reason for the > requirement. In our case, due to poor engineering they put a sensor right > next to the oil filter and if you use a regular filter wrench you _could_ > damage the sensor. If you decide to use a regular wrench you now know to > pay attention to the sensor (I'd use one of the rubber/leather grips > instead of a full cap but I also bought the Harley Filter Wrench[tm]) > > When I changed the oil on the Suzuki I didn't get a single drop of oil on > the ground. It has a higher ground clearance and the oil filter is at the > lowest point. I did have to wipe off the exhaust pipes though. You have to > admit that the position of the filter on the Harley isn't in the best > place for spotless changing. But hey, that's the price we pay :-) Look at it this - oil spilled on the ike frame prevents rust! From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 7 08:58:13 2003 Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 09:11:50 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Oil changes (was 1952 Vincent...) On Fri, 7 Nov 2003, Carl Schelin wrote: > When I changed the oil on the Suzuki I didn't get a single drop of oil on > the ground. It has a higher ground clearance and the oil filter is at the > lowest point. I did have to wipe off the exhaust pipes though. When changing oil on my bike, I wrap the exhaust pipes under the oil filter with aluminum foil. This prevents oil from getting on the pipes. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 7 09:46:17 2003 From: "Wesleyan Hsu" To: "'DC Cycles'" Subject: RE: Extended Warranties? Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 09:46:01 -0500 I guess I'll chime in as well. I both agree and disagree with this statement. When buying a used car, I would spring for the factory extended warranty. I do not like third party extended warranties. I've had both, and the hassles of the third party warranty aren't worth it to me. On the other hand, we recently bought a "certified used" BMW that came with a 7 year/100K mile factory warranty. $50 copay. Unfortunately, we've had to use it twice, with the last fix being a brand new auto tranny. We have over 3 years/50K miles left on this warranty, so I'm glad we have it. But...the question was for a bike. For me, I would get one if the model has a history of having issues, how many miles and the type of riding I'd be doing, and if I planned on keeping it past the duration of the warranty. Wes Hsu > -----Original Message----- > From: William J. Huson [mailto:bhuson@XXXXXX] > Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 8:51 AM > To: Brian Ray > Cc: DC Cycles > Subject: Re: Extended Warranties? > > My personal opinion - extended warrenties blow goats. I sold > them when in the boat bizz. The basic figures - cost me (the > dealer) $350, sold them for $700-$750, making a tidy profit > on the deal. So YES, you should try to cut a bargain if you > decide to blow goats and get one. My experiance thru friends > who had them is the warrenty company pays for the small shit > and always sems to find an *out* for big shit. Bottom line, > they ain't worth shit. > > Bill > > Brian Ray wrote: > > > Ok, any general thoughts on the value of these? > > > > I'd been thinking of looking to get one when I buy the new > bike, but > > am waivering. > > > > On an intellectual sense, like any insurance, they (the dealer/ins. > > co.) know the odds, and price of the warranty reflects that. > > > > Still, if I can negotiate a discounted price? > > > > Any thoughts? Since the Bandit 1200 is an older model, with a more > > proven design, have they worked the bugs out? I know there was an > > issue with oil consumption, but it seems the late 2002/2003 models > > have been fixed... > > > > Thanks, > > > > Brian > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > > http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 7 11:01:35 2003 Reply-To: "Jon Strang" From: "Jon Strang" To: Subject: Fw: [bandit-talk] FW: American recall -Metzeler Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 11:01:10 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jacob Kruger" To: ; "Bandit Talk" Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 7:25 AM Subject: [bandit-talk] FW: American recall -Metzeler > Corroboration: > > http://www.safetyalerts.com/recall/a/02/v00842.htm > > Cheers > > Jacob Kruger > jacob@XXXXXX > 2001 GSF1200 'ratfighter' > 1981 GSX1100/GS1100E > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > Metzeler Has Recalled Motorcycle Tires > > (SafetyAlerts) - The U.S. Department of Transportation's National > > Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) announced. > > > > Make : METZELER Model : SPORTEC M-1 P Build Dates : JAN 26, 2003 - > > FEB 08, 2003 > > > > NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number : 03T003000 > > > > Component: TIRES:TREAD/BELT > > > > Potential Number Of Units Affected : 53 > > > > Summary: > > METZELER SPORTEC 120/17 ZR17 M-1 P MOTORCYCLE TIRE. DURING > > PRODUCTION, AN EXCESSIVE BELT TENSION WAS USED CAUSING HIGH > > COMPRESSION BETWEEN THE BELT AND CARCASS. > > > > Consequence: > > AS A RESULT, THE TIRE MAY CHANGE SHAPE AND A BUBBLE MAY APPEAR IN THE > > TREAD AREA CAUSING THE FRONT TIRE OF THE MOTORCYCLE TO VIBRATE. > > SUDDEN VIBRATION OF THE FRONT END COULD CAUSE THE DRIVER TO LOSE > > CONTROL, POSSIBLE RESULTING IN A VEHICLE CRASH. > > > > Remedy: > > METZELER WILL NOTIFY ITS CUSTOMERS AND REPLACE THE TIRES FREE OF > > CHARGE. OWNER NOTIFICATION IS EXPECTED TO BEGIN DURING NOVEMBER 2003. > > OWNERS WHO TAKE THEIR MOTORCYCLES TO AN AUTHORIZED DEALER ON AN > > AGREED UPON SERVICE DATE AND DO NOT RECEIVE THE FREE REMEDY WITHIN A > > REASONABLE TIME SHOULD CONTACT METZELER AT 706-368-5426. > > > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 7 11:23:24 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 11:22:51 EST Subject: Re: 1952 Vincent Black Lightning; 19?? Fish To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 11/6/2003 12:24:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, fish@XXXXXX writes: > newbies > thinking aloud and asking clarification, And getting good answers. One of the greatest values of this, or any other, listserve. When questions like these are asked _everyone_ benefits, not just the questioner. Remember there are many lurkers and newbies out there who have no doubt asked or would ask the same questions and now they have the answers. So I for one thank you for your questions. Loud pipes quell cells. 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 7 13:35:44 2003 Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 10:35:36 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: FS: 2001 Aprilia Falco, red, perfect To: dc-cycles Selling my Falco on eBay 8;(, should anyone be interested -- one day left: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&category=38627&item=2440787789 Three inquiries already from people who've never owned a bike in their lives and had friends recommend that they should start out on an Aprilia literbike. Mind-boggling. Tnx -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 7 13:45:26 2003 Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 13:44:05 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: Wesleyan Hsu CC: "'DC Cycles'" Subject: Re: Extended Warranties? Wesleyan Hsu wrote: > I guess I'll chime in as well. I both agree and disagree with this > statement. When buying a used car, I would spring for the factory extended > warranty. I do not like third party extended warranties. I've had both, and > the hassles of the third party warranty aren't worth it to me. On the other > hand, we recently bought a "certified used" BMW that came with a 7 year/100K > mile factory warranty. $50 copay. Unfortunately, we've had to use it twice, > with the last fix being a brand new auto tranny. We have over 3 years/50K > miles left on this warranty, so I'm glad we have it. I agree with that - a factory warrenty or transferable factory warrenty on a previously owned/leased vehicle is great. One of many reasons I stick with Mopar (Chrysler) is the 7yr/70K deal. Third party ones are dern near worthless... Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 7 13:59:42 2003 Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 13:58:29 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" CC: dc-cycles Subject: Re: FS: 2001 Aprilia Falco, red, perfect "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" wrote: > Selling my Falco on eBay 8;(, should anyone be interested -- > one day left: > Three inquiries already from people who've never owned a bike > in their lives and had friends recommend that they should > start out on an Aprilia literbike. Mind-boggling. > > Tnx -- Larry Heh, I get that all the time in the MSF Basic Rider Class I teach - "Bubba sez I need at least 1000cc if I wanna go out on the highway." Sure you do, if you fell of the Adkins diet and ballooned up to 897 pounds, and even then a 600 will haul your big butt down the highway faster than stink. Ahem .. until the overloaded tires bust... Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 7 15:33:36 2003 Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 15:33:14 -0500 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: pltrgyst@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: 1952 Vincent Black Lightning; 19?? Fish X-AOL-IP: 64.12.97.7 Nope. The parts guys have been there for at least 3 years and Pete, the mechanic who's done most of the work on my bike, has been there since before they moved from Springfield. I can't remember all of their names but, I remember faces and, all the ones who know me have been there awhile. Scooter In a message dated 11/6/2003 6:36:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, pltrgyst@XXXXXX writes: > > > --- ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: > >... It's > > where I've taken my bike to be worked on since I started > > riding in '97. And, it's where I bought my R6 new. They > > all know me by name when I walk in and have never given me > > any reason to complain. > > Thought most of the staff, like the manager Gerald, had only > been there about a year? > > -- Larry > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 7 19:01:27 2003 Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 18:57:31 -0500 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: 1952 Vincent Black Lightning; 19?? Fish At 04:34 AM 11/7/03 -0800, Carl Schelin wrote: >lowest point. I did have to wipe off the exhaust pipes though. You have to >admit that the position of the filter on the Harley isn't in the best >place for spotless changing. But hey, that's the price we pay :-) That's what that Revtech orange plastic paddle thingy is for. I saw a picture of it in use. It goes around the base of the oil filter, and guides the oil down and into your pan without getting it all over the front of the bike. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 7 19:28:54 2003 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'DCCycles'" Cc: "'mr_vfr@XXXXXX'" Subject: Moron Front Brakes Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 19:33:02 -0500 John Kozyn just kontributed: "Not sure if I saw it in today's digest or not, but calipers can and will hang up a bit w/ grunge etc and you can't always push them in by hand. This is evidenced by significant wear on _one_ pad and not the other. If that's the case, then a caliper rebuild is in order. Not a real big deal, but new dust/fluid seals should be used then." If one pad is wearing faster that the other it could be: 1. One stuck piston - if - you have pistons on both sides of the rotor. (huh?) or . . 2. Malicious elves sanding one pad while you sleep. (evil little buggers) or . . 3. The pins that the caliper is supposed to slide on (the ones I mentioned previously) are grunged up and not sliding every so slightly like they oughta. You can have sparkling pistons and cylinders with perfect seals. But if that caliper doesn't slide on the pins, you will wear one pad faster than the other . . . and as a bonus . . . wear the rotor down faster . . . but wait . . . there's more !!! For you out there in TV land . . . Wearing the rotor and pad takes extra energy so you will use more fuel. Feliz, Carl (off to Chicago) for 6 daze. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Nov 8 10:59:28 2003 From: "Jeff Hughes" To: Subject: RE: Suzuki Dealers Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 10:59:16 -0500 Randy Moran wrote: << I've been dealing with Whitt's for a few years... >> I'll echo what Randy says. Whitt's is a good place and Chris is good guy. You won't get any of the sales BS or pressure like you'll often get at Colemans or some of the others. If you're looking for the "boutique" experience, look elsewhere. If you're looking for the absolute lowest price, look elsewhere. But if your looking for an honest deal from honest folks doing their best to work with you, Whitt's Suzuki will have you covered. Jeff From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Nov 8 11:27:01 2003 Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 08:26:54 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: RE: Suzuki Dealers To: Jeff Hughes , dc-cycles@XXXXXX and chance you're the jeff hughes that writes for sportrider? if so, thanks dude.... --- Jeff Hughes wrote: > Randy Moran wrote: > << I've been dealing with Whitt's for a few years... >> > > > I'll echo what Randy says. Whitt's is a good place and > Chris is good > guy. You won't get any of the sales BS or pressure like > you'll often > get at Colemans or some of the others. If you're looking > for the > "boutique" experience, look elsewhere. If you're looking > for the > absolute lowest price, look elsewhere. But if your > looking for an > honest deal from honest folks doing their best to work > with you, Whitt's > Suzuki will have you covered. > > Jeff ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Nov 8 12:50:49 2003 From: "Mobacc" To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: Extended Warranties? Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 12:48:11 -0500 Another consideration re EW's -- unfavorable-to-buyer cancellation/transfer (crash, sale) should be understood. For example IIRC 2 yr (of 3) usage can result in no subsequent refund for fine print reasons. Bill S. / DC '99 VN750 > No EW -- 15+ model years breed confidence Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Nov 8 17:59:22 2003 From: "Jeff Hughes" To: Subject: RE: Suzuki Dealers Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 17:59:15 -0500 Aye, that would be me, Tom. Thanks. Jeff -----Original Message----- From: Tom Gimer [mailto:t_gimer@XXXXXX] Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2003 11:27 AM To: Jeff Hughes; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Suzuki Dealers and chance you're the jeff hughes that writes for sportrider? if so, thanks dude.... --- Jeff Hughes wrote: > Randy Moran wrote: > << I've been dealing with Whitt's for a few years... >> > > > I'll echo what Randy says. Whitt's is a good place and > Chris is good > guy. You won't get any of the sales BS or pressure like you'll often > get at Colemans or some of the others. If you're looking > for the > "boutique" experience, look elsewhere. If you're looking > for the > absolute lowest price, look elsewhere. But if your > looking for an > honest deal from honest folks doing their best to work > with you, Whitt's > Suzuki will have you covered. > > Jeff ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Nov 8 20:51:25 2003 Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 17:51:16 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: RE: Suzuki Dealers To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Jeff Hughes wrote: > Aye, that would be me, Tom. Thanks. > > Jeff Awesome. Now I have your autograph. Thanks. :-) Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Nov 8 22:42:39 2003 Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 19:41:59 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: RE: Suzuki Dealers To: Jeff Hughes , dc-cycles@XXXXXX my wife read "the devil on my shoulder" and thought "jeff hughes" was my pen name --- Jeff Hughes wrote: > Aye, that would be me, Tom. Thanks. > > Jeff > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Gimer [mailto:t_gimer@XXXXXX] > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2003 11:27 AM > To: Jeff Hughes; dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: RE: Suzuki Dealers > > > and chance you're the jeff hughes that writes for > sportrider? if so, thanks dude.... ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 9 07:54:52 2003 Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 05:54:30 -0700 From: Tommy Dietz To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Know Any Good Frame Welders in the DC Area? Hello All: My girlfriend and I had such a great time at the Shenandoah 500!! Turns out I had too much fun.. while "geeking out" with my bike (as most of us do), I dicovered a crack in the rear part of my frame right below the seat. The patient, my 1995 DR350SES. Anyone know of a good welder who has experience with motorcycle repair in the DC area? Anyone have this kind of repair or know of anyone who has? I don't want to ride it anymore till I fix it. HELP!?! Thanks in advance, Tommy From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 9 09:22:32 2003 From: "Jeff Hughes" To: Subject: RE: Suzuki Dealers Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 09:22:29 -0500 Great minds think alike, huh?! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: Tom Gimer [mailto:t_gimer@XXXXXX] Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2003 10:42 PM To: Jeff Hughes; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Suzuki Dealers my wife read "the devil on my shoulder" and thought "jeff hughes" was my pen name --- Jeff Hughes wrote: > Aye, that would be me, Tom. Thanks. > > Jeff > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Gimer [mailto:t_gimer@XXXXXX] > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2003 11:27 AM > To: Jeff Hughes; dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: RE: Suzuki Dealers > > > and chance you're the jeff hughes that writes for > sportrider? if so, thanks dude.... ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 9 09:31:54 2003 Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 09:31:40 -0500 From: Skip Smith To: Tommy Dietz CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Know Any Good Frame Welders in the DC Area? Carl knws a frame welder that has *incredible* turn-around times... Tommy Dietz wrote: > > Hello All: > > My girlfriend and I had such a great time at the Shenandoah 500!! Turns out I had too much fun.. while "geeking out" with my bike (as most of us do), I dicovered a crack in the rear part of my frame right below the seat. The patient, my 1995 DR350SES. Anyone know of a good welder who has experience with motorcycle repair in the DC area? Anyone have this kind of repair or know of anyone who has? I don't want to ride it anymore till I fix it. HELP!?! > > Thanks in advance, > > Tommy From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 9 14:25:24 2003 Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 11:25:21 -0800 (PST) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Cutting a chain. What's the best tool for cutting a 520# continuous-link chain? Blowtorch? Rotary/Dremel tool? The parts bike appears to have the OEM chain on, which doesn't have a masterlink. Seems like it'd be easier to cut it off than remove the entire swingarm. (Plus it justifies another toy^Hol purchase.) Fish. why does this pizza taste like grease and gojo? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 9 15:37:09 2003 Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 15:37:05 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Michael Jordan Reply-To: Michael Jordan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Cutting a chain. >What's the best tool for cutting a 520# continuous-link chain? Blowtorch? >Rotary/Dremel tool? Dremel is my choice - has worked well in the past (and is a GREAT toy to have) Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 9 15:37:58 2003 From: "stephen" To: "Fish Flowers" , "DC-Cycles" Subject: Newbie bike maintenance -- The ongoing saga Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 15:36:19 -0500 OEM Chain removal: Options 1a. Grinder -- take off the heads of the master link rivets (or if there isn't one as in your case, pick a link at random and grind off both riveted ends on one side). Pull the link and remove the chain. 1b. Cutter -- cut through the chain between links. Shroud the work area so you don't get metal shavings all over your bike. 2. Hacksaw -- go through the chain between links. Effective, but 1. is easier. 3. Remove the swing-arm. If you have a center-stand this is often easier than you would think. And you could lubricate the swing-arm bearings while you were in there. :-0 4. Acetylene Torch (aka "The Unsettling Touch" .. not to be confused with "The Profane Touch") .. You might wish to consider removing the rear wheel before attempting to apply this technique lest you accidentally over-warm the rear tire increasing the pressure therein past the bursting point of the tire. 5. Small thermo-nucular (bushism) device with directed proximity charge. Will definitely remove your chain, but you run the risk of damaging your rear brake line, and getting arrested for having a weapon of mass destruction. Actually, I think that if you consider the weapons of mass destruction found in Iraq, anyone holding a cheese slicer would be considered by this administration to be holding a weapon of mass destruction... Okay, seriously, don't use #5 .. that's just a joke .. you should never use weaponry to 'fix' your motorcycle. Rumours abound that you can, however, put your Hardly down with a shot-gun. Use of small arms fire to render Hardly's inoperable is generally considered futile. Stephen From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 9 16:48:48 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Michael Jordan , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Cutting a chain. Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 16:49:36 -0500 On Sun, 9 Nov 2003 15:37:05 -0500 (GMT-05:00), Michael Jordan wrote > >What's the best tool for cutting a 520# continuous-link chain? Blowtorch? > >Rotary/Dremel tool? > > Dremel is my choice - has worked well in the past (and is a GREAT > toy to have) > > Michael J. Make sure you get a variable speed dremel! Rob -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 9 17:14:04 2003 Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 17:16:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Cutting a chain. To: "Rob Sharp" Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "garcia oliver" I use a cutting wheel on a electric drill. The disks are replaceable and cheap. Alternative is to use a chain pin-removal (press-out) tool. They're easy to break, though. "Rob Sharp" writes: >On Sun, 9 Nov 2003 15:37:05 -0500 (GMT-05:00), Michael Jordan wrote >> >What's the best tool for cutting a 520# continuous-link chain? >Blowtorch? >> >Rotary/Dremel tool? >> >> Dremel is my choice - has worked well in the past (and is a GREAT >> toy to have) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 9 18:36:52 2003 Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 15:36:44 -0800 (PST) From: Adam Reinhardt Subject: Re: Cutting a chain. To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX When I replaced the chain on my GS500, I just pulled off the swing arm and slipped the old chain out. Took maybe 25min with hand tools. Adam 91 GS500 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 10 10:17:10 2003 Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 07:17:06 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: New Rider Websites? To: DC Cycles Can anyone suggest some websites for the person interested in getting into riding. IN additon to MSF? How to choose a bike? Thanks ===== www.deanforamerica.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 10 10:24:22 2003 Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:23:58 -0500 (EST) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: DC Cycles Subject: Re: New Rider Websites? See the right column "biker resources" http://www.clarity.net/~adam/speed.html On Mon, 10 Nov 2003, Mark Kitchell wrote: > Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 07:17:06 -0800 (PST) > From: Mark Kitchell > To: DC Cycles > Subject: New Rider Websites? > > Can anyone suggest some websites for the person > interested in getting into riding. IN additon to MSF? > > How to choose a bike? > > Thanks > > ===== > www.deanforamerica.com > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree > > -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 10 10:29:08 2003 Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 07:28:58 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Ray Subject: Re: New Rider Websites? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Mark - See http://www.beginnerbikes.com/ If you'd like a starter bike, a friend of mine's selling a honda hawk 250. From personal experience I can tell you this is a *great* bike to learn on.... If you'd like more info, just let me know.. Brian > On Mon, 10 Nov 2003, Mark Kitchell wrote: > > > Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 07:17:06 -0800 (PST) > > From: Mark Kitchell > > To: DC Cycles > > Subject: New Rider Websites? > > > > Can anyone suggest some websites for the person > > interested in getting into riding. IN additon to > MSF? > > > > How to choose a bike? > > > > Thanks > > > > ===== > > www.deanforamerica.com > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 10 10:36:49 2003 Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:37:29 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: New Rider Websites? From: "Jeff Steele" To: "Mark Kitchell" Cc: "DC Cycles" Reply-To: jeff@XXXXXX > Can anyone suggest some websites for the person > interested in getting into riding. IN additon to MSF? > > How to choose a bike? http://www.msgroup.org/ http://www.megarider.com/ http://motorcycles.about.com/library/weekly/aa010603a.htm http://www.faqs.org/faqs/motorcycles/beginner-info/ http://www.beginnerbikes.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 10 11:48:40 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Brian Ray" , Subject: Re: New Rider Websites? Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 11:43:52 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Ray" > Mark - > > See http://www.beginnerbikes.com/ > > If you'd like a starter bike, a friend of mine's > selling a honda hawk 250. From personal experience I > can tell you this is a *great* bike to learn on.... > > If you'd like more info, just let me know.. > > Brian > At the risk of sounding a bit obtuse, what's a Honda Hawk 250? If it's the Honda Nighthawk 250, I would say, there are much more capable 250 cc street motorcycles out there for newbies, like the VTR250 (baby-Interceptor, and sadly not imported to the States since the '90 model year) and the EX250 Ninja. The CB250 is preferred for MSF training for a reason. Anemic, underpowered (even for a 250), crappy cable-driven drum brakes, horrible front suspension. Although we did have a student loft the front wheel on a CB250 this weekend. Grab a big handful of throttle in first gear and dump the clutch and it'll do it. I'm leery of recommending the baby Nighthawk for street riding, due to its manifold shortcomings. Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 10 12:07:31 2003 From: Sunil Doshi Subject: Re: New Rider Websites? Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:07:21 -0500 To: DC Cycles I started riding about 6 months ago, and the first bike I bought was an old Honda Rebel 250. I quickly realized that I should've just bought a slightly bigger bike to begin with. While I think there is a place for the 250 with beginners, I feel like confident, capable new riders should think about looking at something in the 500 range (cruisers and standards; not sure what to start with for a sport bike). If you've taken the MSF class, and you were nervous, leery, and somewhat scared, I would go with a 250. It's just my opinion. I wish I had gone a bit bigger to begin with. On Nov 10, 2003, at 11:43 AM, Paul Wilson wrote: > > At the risk of sounding a bit obtuse, what's a Honda Hawk 250? If > it's the > Honda Nighthawk 250, I would say, there are much more capable 250 cc > street > motorcycles out there for newbies, like the VTR250 (baby-Interceptor, > and > sadly not imported to the States since the '90 model year) and the > EX250 > Ninja. The CB250 is preferred for MSF training for a reason. Anemic, > underpowered (even for a 250), crappy cable-driven drum brakes, > horrible > front suspension. Although we did have a student loft the front wheel > on a > CB250 this weekend. Grab a big handful of throttle in first gear and > dump > the clutch and it'll do it. > > I'm leery of recommending the baby Nighthawk for street riding, due to > its > manifold shortcomings. > > Paul in DC > 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org > > > sunil http://widepipe.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 10 12:08:32 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Rob Sharp" , "garcia oliver" Cc: Subject: Re: Cutting a chain. Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 11:56:41 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- From: "garcia oliver" . > I use a cutting wheel on a electric drill. The disks are replaceable and > cheap. > > Alternative is to use a chain pin-removal (press-out) tool. They're easy > to break, though. > Second the use of the cut-off wheel on a variable speed drill. Use it to cut off the rivet head off the pin and then pry off the sideplate. *Do not* cut the sideplate itself. By removing a side plate you can use the old chain to pull the new chain over the front sprocket with a minimum of fuss. If you merely cut the sideplate you can't do that. Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 10 12:25:32 2003 Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:25:18 -0500 (EST) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: DC Cycles Subject: Re: New Rider Websites? On Mon, 10 Nov 2003, Sunil Doshi wrote: > > I started riding about 6 months ago, and the first bike I bought was an > old Honda Rebel 250. I quickly realized that I should've just bought a > slightly bigger bike to begin with. ... > > It's just my opinion. I wish I had gone a bit bigger to begin with. Out of curiosity, Why? I've ridden a Rebel 250, outside of the MSF arena, and know for a fact that they are capable of highway speeds even with a good sized person riding, as well as carrying saddle bags with extra gear. It admittedly does feel small next to a semi trailer, but, were I a new rider, highways with semis wouldn't be where I'd want to start out. The 250 Rebel, actually, was a fun bike to ride. It was plenty zippy, and light enough to throw around corners. I'd consider it about perfect for in town or around campus commuting. -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 10 12:37:26 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Sunil Doshi" , "DC Cycles" Subject: Re: New Rider Websites? Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:36:04 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sunil Doshi" To: "DC Cycles" Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 12:07 PM Subject: Re: New Rider Websites? > I started riding about 6 months ago, and the first bike I bought was an > old Honda Rebel 250. I quickly realized that I should've just bought a > slightly bigger bike to begin with. > > While I think there is a place for the 250 with beginners, I feel like > confident, capable new riders should think about looking at something > in the 500 range (cruisers and standards; not sure what to start with > for a sport bike). If you've taken the MSF class, and you were nervous, > leery, and somewhat scared, I would go with a 250. > I would tend to agree about getting a 500, but I'm not really in favor of "magic numbers" that consider only displacement. (Pity the OEMs don't see fit to import a wider variety of capable 250-400 cc motorcycles, by the way.) FWIW, if "you've taken the MSF class, and you were nervous, leery, and somewhat scared," I recommend much more parking lot practice to get down the rudiments of bike handling before getting on the street or even considering buying a bike. If you don't have the confidence to get on the street after 8 or so hours riding in the non-threatening environment of a parking lot, you shouldn't be on the street. At least not on the street just yet. (Just my personal opinion, not necessarily the MSF's.) Sometimes the highest service we can render is showing a potential rider that riding is not an activity for which that individual is suited. Everyone was not put on God's green earth to ride motorcycles, and it's not a character defect or a sign of failure to find out it's not for you. Can you tell I've practiced this speech? You need a certain level of confidence operating the controls to the point that you can get the bike to do what you want it to do in a predictable fashion. The basics of piloting the machine should become second nature. That part of riding needs to recede into the background and not take up much mental horsepower. That way the rider can concentrate on what the Krazy Kages are doing and other parts of the riding environment. Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 10 13:31:05 2003 Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:30:45 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Ray Subject: Re: New Rider Websites? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Paul - I think you're right - the model is nighthawk, not hawk. In any case, from my own experience, it made for a great beginner bike. Yes, it *is* pretty gutless. No, you're not outrunning traffic. For my context, that was a good thing. Yes, the brakes could be better, but I wasn't going fast anyway. It had little to break, and is/was stone reliable. Started every time, little to adjust. I'm a decent sized-guy (6'-2", 220), and it wasn't cramped. I was perfectly comfortable for an hour or two. Most riders *will* outgrow the bike by the end of a riding season. So what. This bike is small, easy to pick up if you drop it, and easy to catch if you start to drop it. In my experince with the MSF course, it got me the basics. It took a while longer so that driving became automatic, and I've spent my life driving a cage with a stick. For those folks who don't have that experience, I could see it taking a lot longer. Could folks start with a bigger bike and be ok? Absolutely, folks do it all the time. Besides, the $1200 spent on the bike can easily be recouped when sold after the 1st season... BTW, the owner'd also trade it for a decent dirt bike. --- Paul Wilson wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brian Ray" > > > > Mark - > > > > See http://www.beginnerbikes.com/ > > > > If you'd like a starter bike, a friend of mine's > > selling a honda hawk 250. From personal > experience I > > can tell you this is a *great* bike to learn > on.... > > > > If you'd like more info, just let me know.. > > > > Brian > > > > At the risk of sounding a bit obtuse, what's a Honda > Hawk 250? If it's the > Honda Nighthawk 250, I would say, there are much > more capable 250 cc street > motorcycles out there for newbies, like the VTR250 > (baby-Interceptor, and > sadly not imported to the States since the '90 model > year) and the EX250 > Ninja. The CB250 is preferred for MSF training for > a reason. Anemic, > underpowered (even for a 250), crappy cable-driven > drum brakes, horrible > front suspension. Although we did have a student > loft the front wheel on a > CB250 this weekend. Grab a big handful of throttle > in first gear and dump > the clutch and it'll do it. > > I'm leery of recommending the baby Nighthawk for > street riding, due to its > manifold shortcomings. > > Paul in DC > 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 10 13:43:23 2003 Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:43:20 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: New Rider Websites? To: Paul Wilson Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Paul Wilson wrote: > That part of riding needs to recede into the background and > not take up much mental horsepower. Very well put. And this applies equally well to driving manual transmission cars, although your life is much less at risk in that environment. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 10 19:18:59 2003 Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 19:17:49 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: Drats! I finished up the latest BRC class under the strange orange/pink glow of the parking lot lights at Alex NOVA. We used the new split class system where the 24 students are split into tow seperate groups, so Group A starts at dark-thirty, and group B, cursed with the shorter days, rode 1/2 the eval after sundown. Sheesh, it was cold. Anyhoo, it was after 6 pm before we sent the newbies off with their completion cards. Another 15 minutes of paperwork and I'm ready to boogie. Hmm... turn the headlamp switch to lo-beam and the blue hi-beam indicator lamp stays on. I had this problem many moons ago, some electrical bad ground gremlin that renders the headlamp dark in either hi or lo switch position. Crappers. Turn on driving/passing lamps. Shazam! Let there be light! Well, half light because one of the d/p lamps also suffers from gremlins. I head for home. The gremlin d/p lamp goes on/off depending on vibes or something like that. Way cool, one bright lamp and sort of a modulated lamp! Made the 6 mile trip without problems, like a poo-leece officer stopping me to inquire about my out of spec lights. Reckon I'll have to brave the cold and fix the dang thing. On the upside I got my backup vehicle back. My van was in for emmisions work, bad manifolds, and I picked it up this evening. Time to renew my tags now that the exhaust sytem is fixed and it passed emissions inspection. So I try the DMV toll-free number. Whoa, open 24/7! Automated, so I peck in all the numbers they want and the robo-voice sez I'll have my stickers in 5 working days. Could have also used the internet to renew, but I have a slug-slow dialup connection. Looks like I'll be on 4 wheels until I shoo the gremlin off my bike. Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 10 20:14:24 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:14:04 EST Subject: Re: Drats! To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 11/10/2003 7:20:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, bhuson@XXXXXX writes: > some > electrical bad ground gremlin that renders the headlamp dark in either > hi or lo switch position. Yea. It sounds like a ground problem to me but I would check/replace the bulb first just because it is the easiest (and the bulb can have internal ground (or short) problems.) Then run some sort of wire from the side of the bulb or bulb holder (its ground) to a good ground (an unpainted bolt head or even the negative side of your battery.) and see if that makes things bright (no need to re-install the light for this, all the connections should be there (as long as you have a good ground with your jumper.) If things work then the problem must be the ground. Good luck. Loud pipes quell cells. 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 10 20:41:06 2003 Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:43:53 -0500 Subject: parts: sell on ebay or bike sites? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "garcia oliver" Hi...I intend to decrease my pile of motorcycle parts. Anyone got a recommendation/preference for selling them on ebay versus selling on motorcycle sites? Thanks. --garcia "It is by the goodness of God that in our country we have these three unspeakably precious things: freedom of speech, freedom of conscience, and the prudence never to practice either of them." -- Mark Twain From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 10 20:45:36 2003 Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:45:36 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Bruce Brownlee Subject: Re: harley oil changes.... since there seem to be a few owners on the board. cheap hint: go get an adjustable (or correct fit) filter wrench that fits over the top of the filter and clamps on.... the kind that attach to a socket wrench. they are usually 3/8" drive. get a long 12-18" extension. cut the BOTTOM end off of a plastic soda bottle (2L i guess). put the extension thru the hole in the top, attach the ratchet to the end by the top, the filter wrench to the end inside the bottle. Slide the whole thing over the filter and remove. With some adjustments and notches cut in the bottle, it will catch just about everything. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 10 21:13:00 2003 From: "Laura Roach" To: , "garcia oliver" Subject: Re: parts: sell on ebay or bike sites? Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:07:35 -0500 > Hi...I intend to decrease my pile of motorcycle parts. Anyone got a > recommendation/preference for selling them on ebay versus selling on > motorcycle sites? > > Thanks. > > --garcia Depending on what type of bike/year/parts, I'd also suggest thinking about putting them on the WERA BBS...it's the bulletin board system for racers. They are always looking for spares if it's something worth them buying (sportbike, not cruiser). Laura From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 11 02:43:32 2003 Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 23:43:24 -0800 (PST) From: Adam Reinhardt Subject: Re: parts: sell on ebay or bike sites? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX If you can sell the parts on a motorcycle specific forum, then I would do that. You'll probably be able to sell the parts for a close to what you'd get on eBay, if not more. Plus you won't have to pay eBay's commision. And since your selling, you don't have to worry about getting ripped off. Adam --- Laura Roach wrote: > > > > Hi...I intend to decrease my pile of motorcycle > parts. Anyone got a > > recommendation/preference for selling them on ebay > versus selling on > > motorcycle sites? > > > > Thanks. > > > > --garcia > > Depending on what type of bike/year/parts, I'd also > suggest thinking about > putting them on the WERA BBS...it's the bulletin > board system for racers. > They are always looking for spares if it's something > worth them buying > (sportbike, not cruiser). > > Laura > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 11 08:41:53 2003 Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 05:41:45 -0800 (PST) From: Lurking Subject: Re: New Rider Websites and beginner bikes To: bdaleray@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: pawilson@XXXXXX, sdoshi@XXXXXX I agree that the Nighthawk and Rebel 250 are underpowered for an average size American male. Although, I've heard many smaller guys (under 150 lbs) and lots of women say that they were very happy with their starter 250cc bikes. I will say that the Ninja 250, still sold widely, is a great beginner bike, if it's ergonomics fit you. That bike has plenty of power, it's a fast bike, definitely fast for 250cc's. As another option, I'm going to sell my 1986 Yamaha Radian 600. I bought it in May of this year as my first bike. It's really been a great bike! I've put $1,000 into it over the summer/fall and I'm confident it'll last for at least 1 or 2 more beginners! It' only has 10K miles on it, 3,000 of which I put on it since May. New rear tire, valve adjustment, carbs cleaned, oil changed all about 500 miles ago. Complete service records since I purchased. The bike isn't super powerful, but it gets my 6'3" 230lbs body moving quickly! I've had a great time learning on it. I did drop it once, but have repaired all damage (it was minor). As with any 17 year old bike, it's got a few scratches and dings, but you'd be suprised how nice it is. I've seen much, much worse! Anyway, I also recommend Http://www.beginnerbikes.com And, you can always ask questions here at dc-cycles. There are a few posters that will advise you to your heart's content, and then some ;) Have fun learning a wonderful new skill! -Kipp. From: Sunil Doshi Subject: Re: New Rider Websites? Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:07:21 -0500 To: DC Cycles I started riding about 6 months ago, and the first bike I bought was an old Honda Rebel 250. I quickly realized that I should've just bought a slightly bigger bike to begin with. While I think there is a place for the 250 with beginners, I feel like confident, capable new riders should think about looking at something in the 500 range (cruisers and standards; not sure what to start with for a sport bike). If you've taken the MSF class, and you were nervous, leery, and somewhat scared, I would go with a 250. It's just my opinion. I wish I had gone a bit bigger to begin with. On Nov 10, 2003, at 11:43 AM, Paul Wilson wrote: > > At the risk of sounding a bit obtuse, what's a Honda Hawk 250? If > it's the > Honda Nighthawk 250, I would say, there are much more capable 250 cc > street > motorcycles out there for newbies, like the VTR250 (baby-Interceptor, > and > sadly not imported to the States since the '90 model year) and the > EX250 > Ninja. The CB250 is preferred for MSF training for a reason. Anemic, > underpowered (even for a 250), crappy cable-driven drum brakes, > horrible > front suspension. Although we did have a student loft the front wheel > on a > CB250 this weekend. Grab a big handful of throttle in first gear and > dump > the clutch and it'll do it. > > I'm leery of recommending the baby Nighthawk for street riding, due to > its > manifold shortcomings. > > Paul in DC > 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org ===== "If we had no winter, the spring would not be so pleasant: if we did not sometimes taste of adversity, prosperity would not be so welcome." -Anne Bradstreet __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 11 08:54:41 2003 Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 05:54:31 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: New Rider Websites and beginner bikes To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Thanks for the advice folks. Its obviously not for me but for a boss. I can tell you he will not be going the beginner bike route, I just know that. A forsee a new Harley in his future. However, I did give him lots of good info on rider training. --- Lurking wrote: > I agree that the Nighthawk and Rebel 250 are > underpowered for an average size American > male. Although, I've heard many smaller guys (under > 150 lbs) and lots of women say that > they were very happy with their starter 250cc bikes. > I will say that the Ninja 250, still > sold widely, is a great beginner bike, if it's > ergonomics fit you. That bike has plenty of > power, it's a fast bike, definitely fast for > 250cc's. > > As another option, I'm going to sell my 1986 Yamaha > Radian 600. I bought it in May of this > year as my first bike. It's really been a great > bike! I've put $1,000 into it over the > summer/fall and I'm confident it'll last for at > least 1 or 2 more beginners! It' only has > 10K miles on it, 3,000 of which I put on it since > May. New rear tire, valve adjustment, > carbs cleaned, oil changed all about 500 miles ago. > Complete service records since I > purchased. The bike isn't super powerful, but it > gets my 6'3" 230lbs body moving quickly! > I've had a great time learning on it. I did drop it > once, but have repaired all damage (it > was minor). As with any 17 year old bike, it's got > a few scratches and dings, but you'd be > suprised how nice it is. I've seen much, much > worse! > > Anyway, I also recommend > Http://www.beginnerbikes.com And, you can always > ask questions > here at dc-cycles. There are a few posters that > will advise you to your heart's content, > and then some ;) Have fun learning a wonderful new > skill! > > -Kipp. > > > From: Sunil Doshi > Subject: Re: New Rider Websites? > Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:07:21 -0500 > To: DC Cycles > > I started riding about 6 months ago, and the first > bike I bought was an > old Honda Rebel 250. I quickly realized that I > should've just bought a > slightly bigger bike to begin with. > > While I think there is a place for the 250 with > beginners, I feel like > confident, capable new riders should think about > looking at something > in the 500 range (cruisers and standards; not sure > what to start with > for a sport bike). If you've taken the MSF class, > and you were nervous, > leery, and somewhat scared, I would go with a 250. > > It's just my opinion. I wish I had gone a bit bigger > to begin with. > > On Nov 10, 2003, at 11:43 AM, Paul Wilson wrote: > > > > > At the risk of sounding a bit obtuse, what's a > Honda Hawk 250? If > > it's the > > Honda Nighthawk 250, I would say, there are much > more capable 250 cc > > street > > motorcycles out there for newbies, like the VTR250 > (baby-Interceptor, > > and > > sadly not imported to the States since the '90 > model year) and the > > EX250 > > Ninja. The CB250 is preferred for MSF training > for a reason. Anemic, > > underpowered (even for a 250), crappy cable-driven > drum brakes, > > horrible > > front suspension. Although we did have a student > loft the front wheel > > on a > > CB250 this weekend. Grab a big handful of > throttle in first gear and > > dump > > the clutch and it'll do it. > > > > I'm leery of recommending the baby Nighthawk for > street riding, due to > > its > > manifold shortcomings. > > > > Paul in DC > > 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org > > ===== > "If we had no winter, the spring would not be so > pleasant: if we did not sometimes taste of > adversity, prosperity would not be so welcome." > -Anne Bradstreet > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree > ===== www.deanforamerica.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 11 08:56:05 2003 From: "Michael Jordan" To: Subject: Re: New Rider Websites and beginner bikes Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 08:56:01 -0500 X-ELNK-Trace: 599158c4802a0bc829d2c221526d1bab239a348a220c2609a45a418044d9309377c80276da74daec666fa475841a1c7a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c And while we're posting "underpowered" bikes for sale... I have a dark green '93 Seca II in good condition that I'd like to see go to a good home rather than languish in the corner of my garage. (I bought it from a friend that needed ca$h). Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 11 09:06:09 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Mark Kitchell" , Subject: Re: New Rider Websites and beginner bikes Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 09:05:30 -0500 BTW, just a heads up. Registration for next year's MSF classes at NVCC starts on Dec. 1st. Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Kitchell" > Thanks for the advice folks. Its obviously not for me > but for a boss. I can tell you he will not be going > the beginner bike route, I just know that. .... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 11 09:42:44 2003 Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 09:41:33 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: Paul Wilson CC: Mark Kitchell , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: New Rider Websites and beginner bikes Yes, and one can register online! http://www.nvcc.edu/alexandria/moto/Index.html And for 2004, we will offer an intermediate course - one day on your own bike. Sorta like a tame ERC course. Bill Paul Wilson wrote: > BTW, just a heads up. Registration for next year's MSF classes at NVCC > starts on Dec. 1st. > > Paul in DC > 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Kitchell" > > > Thanks for the advice folks. Its obviously not for me > > but for a boss. I can tell you he will not be going > > the beginner bike route, I just know that. .... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 11 09:50:45 2003 Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 06:50:27 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Ray Subject: Re: New Rider Websites and beginner bikes To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Bill - Any more info on the intermediate rider course? (IRC?) Content? Schedule? Cost? I checked the link, and it only reflects the 2003 info, unless I missed something. Will it be updated on the 1st? Thanks, Brian '80 kz440 ltd '03 GSF1200S (almost) --- "William J. Huson" wrote: > Yes, and one can register online! > > http://www.nvcc.edu/alexandria/moto/Index.html > > And for 2004, we will offer an intermediate course - > one day on your own > bike. Sorta like a tame ERC course. > > Bill > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 11 10:02:12 2003 Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 07:02:04 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Ray Subject: Suzuki Dealers / EW To: DC Cycles Well, I wanted to thank everyone for the discussion of dealers & extended warranties. I called Romney Cycles (WVA), and got a smokin price. Just for grins, I stopped by Champion Motorsports in Herndon, and after some discussion, they met the price. Just for grins I had stopped by Coleman's in Falls Church, and they weren't even in the ballpark. It looks like I'll be picking up a new 2003 Bandit 1200S Thursday evening. Silver. At least I have the sense to take a trailer, and not ride it home to Alexandria through the traffic in the dark.... Of course, this means that I've just personally guaranteed a cold, wet, rainy winter, so as to limit my riding time. Sorry, everyone. Thanks again. Brian __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 11 10:08:19 2003 Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 10:23:36 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Suzuki Dealers / EW On Tue, 11 Nov 2003, Brian Ray wrote: > I called Romney Cycles (WVA), and got a smokin price. > Just for grins, I stopped by Champion Motorsports in > Herndon, and after some discussion, they met the > price. I've had great experiences at Champion. They sponsor my friend's ZX12 (www.dontbescaredracing.com) and Nick tuned my Hayabusa. > It looks like I'll be picking up a new 2003 Bandit > 1200S Thursday evening. Silver. Congrats! Ride safe. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 11 10:24:10 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 10:23:55 EST Subject: Re: Drats! To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 11/11/2003 8:02:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, Skip@XXXXXX writes: > misdiagnosis of a bad ground may have cost me almost $400 and a day of > vacation. Ow! As a _general_ rule (your results may vary, do not blame me) weird electrical gremlins are _usually_ a ground problem. The one time I took a cage to a dealer for a service I wound up chasing electrical gremlins for weeks. (turned out to be TWO problems, a bad diode and the guy had failed to tighten the bolts on the alternator so the belt was slipping (not enough pressure on it to squeal.) Then there was the time I took my BMW to a trusted dealer for a service I just did not have time for, mechanic left the ground bolt on the engine loose. Bike would have quit on the way home except I had installed an auxiliary ground wire for the alarm system. That wire kept the bike running and most likely saved the ignition controller. The exiting part came the next morning when I hit the starter to ride to work. A great flash of light and smoke rolling out from under my fuel tank #8-o> as the small, no way it could handle the starter current, wire fried. AAAARRRRRRRAAAAGGGGHHHHH. No damage, but it woke my ass up.... I _hate_ letting other people work on my stuff........ Loud pipes quell cells. 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 11 10:26:47 2003 Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 10:25:37 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: Brian Ray CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: New Rider Websites and beginner bikes Official course title "Motorcycle Skills Practice". No classroom, about a 1/2 day on the range with tips on how to improve your skills and practice maneuvers. Not a pass/fail course, just practice and maximum riding time. Hopefully the website will be updated by Dec 1st to reflect our new schedule and will have prices. Brian Ray wrote: > Bill - > > Any more info on the intermediate rider course? > (IRC?) Content? Schedule? Cost? > > I checked the link, and it only reflects the 2003 > info, unless I missed something. Will it be updated > on the 1st? > > Thanks, > > Brian > '80 kz440 ltd > '03 GSF1200S (almost) > > --- "William J. Huson" wrote: > > Yes, and one can register online! > > > > http://www.nvcc.edu/alexandria/moto/Index.html > > > > And for 2004, we will offer an intermediate course - > > one day on your own > > bike. Sorta like a tame ERC course. > > > > Bill > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 11 10:29:27 2003 Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 10:28:15 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: Brian Ray CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: New Rider Websites and beginner bikes Oh yeah, one more thang. Methinks the MSP and ERC course will be held on weekdays at the Alex campus. When the summer gets long we may do them in the evening. Or after sundown under the parking light lots, but never fear, we don't charge extra for helping you improve your nighttime riding skills, or riding in the rain :-) Brian Ray wrote: > Bill - > > Any more info on the intermediate rider course? > (IRC?) Content? Schedule? Cost? > > I checked the link, and it only reflects the 2003 > info, unless I missed something. Will it be updated > on the 1st? > > Thanks, > > Brian > '80 kz440 ltd > '03 GSF1200S (almost) > > --- "William J. Huson" wrote: > > Yes, and one can register online! > > > > http://www.nvcc.edu/alexandria/moto/Index.html > > > > And for 2004, we will offer an intermediate course - > > one day on your own > > bike. Sorta like a tame ERC course. > > > > Bill > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 11 14:57:06 2003 From: "rich hall" To: bdaleray@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Suzuki Dealers / EW Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:44:57 -0500 So Romney or Champion? >From: Brian Ray >To: DC Cycles >Subject: Suzuki Dealers / EW >Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 07:02:04 -0800 (PST) > >Well, I wanted to thank everyone for the discussion of >dealers & extended warranties. > >I called Romney Cycles (WVA), and got a smokin price. >Just for grins, I stopped by Champion Motorsports in >Herndon, and after some discussion, they met the >price. Just for grins I had stopped by Coleman's in >Falls Church, and they weren't even in the ballpark. > >It looks like I'll be picking up a new 2003 Bandit >1200S Thursday evening. Silver. At least I have the >sense to take a trailer, and not ride it home to >Alexandria through the traffic in the dark.... > >Of course, this means that I've just personally >guaranteed a cold, wet, rainy winter, so as to limit >my riding time. Sorry, everyone. > >Thanks again. > >Brian > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard >http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree > _________________________________________________________________ MSN Shopping upgraded for the holidays! Snappier product search... http://shopping.msn.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 11 15:26:30 2003 Reply-To: "Jon Strang" From: "Jon Strang" To: "DC Cycles" Subject: Brian, congrats on new Bandit! Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 15:26:17 -0500 Brian, Too bad you got silver. The black ones are faster :-) www.holeshot.com Lots of good Bandit parts. Recommend at least a stage I (preferably stage II) jet kit, slip on, s/s brake lines, and HH pads as best mods for the cost. Oh yeah, through in the 5* ignition advancer, too. Header and cams cost more money for less gain. www.maximum-suzuki.com Lots of good Bandit information and forums. http://www.ironcreek.net/~bill/ Lots of good pictures and how-to info for maintenance http://members.accesstoledo.com/fastlarry1/banditfaq.htm Lots of questions answerred. The Bandit FAQ list. --jon 2001 Bandito Grande (black and nekkid) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Ray" > It looks like I'll be picking up a new 2003 Bandit > 1200S Thursday evening. Silver. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 11 15:27:49 2003 Reply-To: "Jon Strang" From: "Jon Strang" To: "DC Cycles" Subject: Re: Brian, congrats on new Bandit! Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 15:27:36 -0500 http://members.accesstoledo.com/fastlarry1/bandit_tips.htm One more: lots of good Bandit tips. --jon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Strang" To: "DC Cycles" Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 3:26 PM Subject: Brian, congrats on new Bandit! > Brian, > Too bad you got silver. The black ones are faster :-) > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 11 22:01:41 2003 Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:01:23 -0800 (PST) From: matthew patton Subject: rising fatalities -> get more training! To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I wondered why my mailbox was seeing no list traffic. seems I got unsubbed automatically. hope this isn't an old thread by now. Got to hand the Brits major clue factor on this one. Pity that hell will probably be an icicle before they figure out the same thing over here and actually take suitable action. from www.motorcyclenews.com Welsh police are reacting to the highest number of motorcycle fatalities ever recorded on their roads, and posting the finger at a lack of rider skill training ... " Many are )B‘born again bikers’ with insufficient skills who’ve got more cash and bought themselves powerful motorcycles, " said Anwyl. " They haven)B’t got the skills to get themselves out of trouble. I’d advice anyone considering going back to biking to sign up for some training. " ===== * Love, not time, heals all wounds. * No one is perfect until you fall in love with them. And then when they aren't perfect anymore, love makes them perfect again. * Everyone wants to live on top of the mountain, but all the happiness and growth occurs while you're climbing it * You can not forgive unless you first love. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 11 22:41:32 2003 Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:41:25 -0800 (PST) From: matthew patton Subject: Re: New Rider Websites? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX actually there is a 250cc 'hawk' but it's EU/JP only. Like the CBR400, ZX-4R, GSXR400, SV400 and a zillion others. In countries with a brain (ie. have tough-nosed training and graduated licensing) 400cc bikes are lustful items and is what a huge percentage of the riding public has. ===== * Love, not time, heals all wounds. * No one is perfect until you fall in love with them. And then when they aren't perfect anymore, love makes them perfect again. * Everyone wants to live on top of the mountain, but all the happiness and growth occurs while you're climbing it * You can not forgive unless you first love. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 12 08:38:59 2003 Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 05:38:56 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Testing To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Sorry, just testing something. Carry on. Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 12 10:06:31 2003 Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:06:27 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: ../../../../../../../root/testdc Ignore me. Archive vuln test. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org All that is now All that is gone All that's to come and everything under the sun is in tune but the sun is eclipsed by the moon. The lunatic is on the grass. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 12 12:50:56 2003 Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:50:21 -0500 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: mike@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: ../../../../../../../root/testdc X-AOL-IP: 65.86.98.162 Huh? Did somebody say something? ;-) Scooter In a message dated 11/12/2003 10:06:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, mike@XXXXXX writes: > > > Ignore me. Archive vuln test. > > ___________________________________________ > Mike Troutman > http://www.troutman.org > > All that is now > All that is gone > All that's to come > and everything under the sun is in tune > but the sun is eclipsed by the moon. > > The lunatic is on the grass. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 12 13:11:47 2003 Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:11:44 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Off Topic: For Sale To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX (I tried posting this last night from Rita's system. It seems she has "HTML" messages turned on and the dc-cycles list bounced it. I sent the test out earlier to make sure it was a problem with her system instead of new rules. Sorry for the noise and thanks for the humorous replies :-) ========= No no, not a bike. My ping-pong table. It's a fold up and on four wheels. It's in really good condition. It's been sitting in the "rec room" for a couple of years. I'm the only one who likes to play and one "man" ping-pong just isn't much fun :-) and I'm reducing inventory. First person with $50 (and wants it :-) gets it. Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 12 13:14:33 2003 Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:14:26 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: ../../../../../../../root/testdc To: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Only in binary. [on-topic moto:] Must have been a Turing machine. -- Larry --- ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: > Huh? Did somebody say something? ;-) > > Scooter > > In a message dated 11/12/2003 10:06:27 AM Eastern Standard > Time, mike@XXXXXX writes: > > > > > > > Ignore me. Archive vuln test. > > > > ___________________________________________ > > Mike Troutman > > http://www.troutman.org > > > > All that is now > > All that is gone > > All that's to come > > and everything under the sun is in tune > > but the sun is eclipsed by the moon. > > > > The lunatic is on the grass. > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 12 14:45:56 2003 Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:45:51 -0800 (PST) From: Sean Steele Subject: Expected lifetime for clutch + more To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I've heard you can expect 40-50k miles out of a bike's original clutch (regardless of model). Two questions: a) does that sound right and b) if a clutch goes bad long before then, is it typically a function of mileage, age, abuse (or something else)? Also, for those of you who have replaced clutches, what is needed beyond some basic hand tools (8/10/12/17mm sockets), replacement clutch plates, and gasket(s)? Is it smarter for the bike (and the newbie owner) to take it to a shop and pay for labor + supplies? -Sean __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 12 15:25:04 2003 Subject: Re: Expected lifetime for clutch + more From: Brian Roach To: Sean Steele Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 12 Nov 2003 15:24:53 -0500 On Wed, 2003-11-12 at 14:45, Sean Steele wrote: > I've heard you can expect 40-50k miles out of a bike's > original clutch (regardless of model). Two questions: > a) does that sound right and b) if a clutch goes bad > long before then, is it typically a function of > mileage, age, abuse (or something else)? 40 - 50k is pretty optimistic ... but I guess it's possible. It depends on a lot of variables. A high-horsepower sportbike is going to eat clutches a wee bit faster than a rebel 250, and how you use the clutch is also going to be a big factor. Partial engagement (slipping the clutch) wears down the fiber plates. It also builds up heat which can cause the steel plates to warp, or form carbon deposits on the steels. If you're a guy who likes to take off from stop-light to stop-light ... you're going to be replacing the clutch a bit before 40k miles (more like every 6k). > Also, for those of you who have replaced clutches, > what is needed beyond some basic hand tools > (8/10/12/17mm sockets), replacement clutch plates, and > gasket(s)? Is it smarter for the bike (and the newbie > owner) to take it to a shop and pay for labor + > supplies? It's not a tough job - probably a good one to do yourself if you want to start doing your own maint. If you've never done one I'd suggest having the service manual so you make sure everything goes back together the right way, there are going to be a few washers and small parts that need to be paid attention to. The tools you listed will be fine, and depending on the bike you might need a gasket for the clutch cover. Some bikes use a rubber O-ring that can be re-used by cleaning it and applying a little grease. You want to soak the new fiber plates in oil (I use the old oil that came out of the bike). The only "gotcha" on the plates is that the steel plates all have to face the same direction. There is a beveled edge on one side of the plate (the other side is flat all the way to the edge). Doesn't matter which way (in or out) that side goes, but every plate has to be oriented the same way. You'll also need new oil, of course. - Roach From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 12 15:46:14 2003 Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:46:10 -0800 (PST) From: Leon Begeman Subject: Re: Expected lifetime for clutch + more To: Brian Roach , Sean Steele Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Brian Roach wrote: > On Wed, 2003-11-12 at 14:45, Sean Steele wrote: > > I've heard you can expect 40-50k miles out of a > bike's > > original clutch (regardless of model). Two > questions: > > a) does that sound right and b) if a clutch goes > bad > > long before then, is it typically a function of > > mileage, age, abuse (or something else)? > > 40 - 50k is pretty optimistic ... but I guess it's > possible. I've only had 3 clutch problems in my years of riding. 1) A Honda CX650 broke a throw-out bearing somewhere less than 60K miles. 2) A Ninja 250 wore the fingers on the basket so the springs couldn't push the plates together easily (I just filed it flat again and it lasted until the engine quit for other reasons. 3) A Ninja 600 that I bought with 4K miles on it had a clutch that slipped with agressive throttle application. I just rode that one gently for another 10K miles then sold it as parts. Engines that I've had with more than 40K miles CX650 - 60K CX650 - 70K GL650 - 105K ZX6 - 80K Ninja 250 - about 4 motors that have gone to 40K miles. Leon Begeman __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 12 17:45:35 2003 From: "Bruce N" To: "DC Cycles" Subject: Re: Expected lifetime for clutch + more Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 17:43:25 -0500 A good friend of mine has 65,000+ miles on his '99 900RR's original clutch. Gimer's Duc 996 had 38k+ on it when I changed his clutch, not slipping, just wore the basket out. The first thing I recommend you have is a service manual. Read the procedure in the book and you should get a pretty good idea if you need any special tools. What kind of bike? Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sean Steele" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 2:45 PM Subject: Expected lifetime for clutch + more > I've heard you can expect 40-50k miles out of a bike's > original clutch (regardless of model). Two questions: > a) does that sound right and b) if a clutch goes bad > long before then, is it typically a function of > mileage, age, abuse (or something else)? > > Also, for those of you who have replaced clutches, > what is needed beyond some basic hand tools > (8/10/12/17mm sockets), replacement clutch plates, and > gasket(s)? Is it smarter for the bike (and the newbie > owner) to take it to a shop and pay for labor + > supplies? > > -Sean From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 12 17:59:43 2003 Subject: Re: Expected lifetime for clutch + more From: Brian Roach To: DC Cycles Date: 12 Nov 2003 17:59:35 -0500 On Wed, 2003-11-12 at 17:43, Bruce N wrote: > A good friend of mine has 65,000+ miles on his '99 900RR's original clutch. > Gimer's Duc 996 had 38k+ on it when I changed his clutch, not slipping, just > wore the basket out. On the flip side, I had a slipping clutch in my Duc 900ss at about 6k miles. But ... that comes from slipping it a lot and putting a lot of heat into it. Re-surfacing the steel plates was all that was needed, to remove the glazing. Of course, I get about 400 miles out of my TZ250 clutch :) - Roach From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 12 18:39:01 2003 From: "LindaT." To: "Dc-Cycles \(Dc-Cycles\)" Subject: RE: Expected lifetime for clutch + more Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 18:38:28 -0500 Well, I haven't had a lot o' bikes, but I've never replaced a clutch. I have 70K on my CBR and 56K on my BMW. When the tranny on the beemer was rebuilt, I asked about the clutch. They said I still had plenty. YMMV LindaT. http://www.customtankbags.com Now - TankBags for 1800 Wings Springfield, VA (suburb of our nation's capital) AMA IBA HSTA BMWBMW 99 R1100RT Mr. Buzzy 95 F3 Purple Haze 00 KLR250 Super Sherpa Tenzing From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 12 18:41:28 2003 Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 18:41:13 -0500 From: Skip Smith To: DC-Cycles Subject: 250 for sale or rent I've got a friend that is looking to learn the basics. he wisely wants to start small. anyone got a 250 for sale, or preferrably for rent? --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 12 19:54:57 2003 Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:51:47 -0500 To: Sean Steele , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Bob Meyer Subject: Re: Expected lifetime for clutch + more At 11:45 AM 11/12/03 -0800, Sean Steele wrote: >I've heard you can expect 40-50k miles out of a bike's >original clutch (regardless of model). Two questions: >a) does that sound right and b) if a clutch goes bad >long before then, is it typically a function of >mileage, age, abuse (or something else)? I'd say it depends more on riding style and usage than anything else. I know a few ST1100 riders with more than 100K on the original clutch. But those are mostly highway miles, which put no wear on the clutch plates at all. On the flip side, commuting in stop and go traffic is murder on a clutch, as are full power shifts on today's 150 + HP literbikes. Bob Meyer, STOC # 1157 '92 ST1100, Candy Glory Red '02 ST1100 A, Candy Wineberry Red '02 919, Asphalt "Attack Life. It's going to kill you anyway." From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 12 20:32:31 2003 Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 20:32:28 -0500 Subject: Clutch longevity From: Bob McKeithen To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX On Wednesday, November 12, 2003, at 07:00 PM, The dc-cycles list administrator wrote: My Moto Guzzi now has 83,xxx miles on it and the original clutch works just fine. Anybody want to debate the merits of dry vs wet clutches? Bob From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 13 02:19:57 2003 Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 23:19:55 -0800 (PST) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Bike Not Stolen. That's odd. SWMBO and I were just awoken by someone knocking on our front door; at 0215 in PG County one views this with a bit of suspicion. Took the usual precautions, but it turns out to be a neighbor from up the road, who's seen the bike in the driveway... and wanted to let us know that it was now tipped over in the middle of the street. Sure enough, the bike was on the right-hand side about 25 feet down from our driveway. I haven't noticed any major damage; the brake lever is knocked up a bit, and there's gas on the road from the carbs. What a pain. I need to head into work in three hours. Guess it's time to give it a twice-over... Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 13 07:45:17 2003 Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 07:44:54 -0500 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: fish@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Bike Not Stolen. X-AOL-IP: 65.86.98.162 Glad you still have it. Did you have any kind of lock on it? Disc lock at least? Scooter In a message dated 11/13/2003 2:19:55 AM Eastern Standard Time, fish@XXXXXX writes: > > > That's odd. > > SWMBO and I were just awoken by someone knocking on our front door; at > 0215 in PG County one views this with a bit of suspicion. Took the usual > precautions, but it turns out to be a neighbor from up the road, who's > seen the bike in the driveway... and wanted to let us know that it was now > tipped over in the middle of the street. > > Sure enough, the bike was on the right-hand side about 25 feet down from > our driveway. I haven't noticed any major damage; the brake lever is > knocked up a bit, and there's gas on the road from the carbs. > > What a pain. I need to head into work in three hours. Guess > it's time to > give it a twice-over... > > Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 13 07:47:01 2003 Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 04:47:01 -0800 (PST) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Bike Not Stolen. On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: > Glad you still have it. Did you have any kind of lock on it? Disc lock > at least? Nope, none whatsoever. I suppose I naively figured that it's a quiet neighborhood... and for the love of dear sweet Cthulhu, who would want to steal a ratbike when there are plenty of nicer-looking bikes (Harleys, sportbikes) in an eight-block radius? Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 13 07:53:54 2003 Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 04:53:51 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Bike Not Stolen. To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Could it be a wind problem (not knowing the configuration of your local or the ending location of the bike)? Coming up from DC (Dale City :-) it was pretty windy (hey, I park mine in my garage :-) Carl --- Fish Flowers wrote: > That's odd. > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 13 07:57:05 2003 Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 04:57:05 -0800 (PST) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Bike Not Stolen. On Thu, 13 Nov 2003, Carl Schelin wrote: > Could it be a wind problem (not knowing the configuration of your local > or the ending location of the bike)? Er, doubt it, unless the wind blew the bike about 25 feet up the driveway, then 25 feet down the road, then dropped it. > Coming up from DC (Dale City :-) it was pretty windy (hey, I park mine > in my garage :-) It was _very_ windy this morning. For the first time ever I wished there were more traffic on the WW bridge, so I could slow down a bit more and not feel like I was holding people up... Slowed down anyway. I'm stupid, not suicidal. And yeah, I guess I'll have to begin parking in the garage. Whatta pain. Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 13 07:58:16 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: Fish Flowers , DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Bike Not Stolen. Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 7:57:56 -0500 Lucky. May I suggest your next purchase be a sturdy lock and chain. And, if you have nothing to lock it to, a ground anchor? Check www.lockitt.com for good info on motorcycle theft prevention. Bob Meyer > > From: Fish Flowers > Date: 2003/11/13 Thu AM 02:19:55 EST > To: DC-Cycles > Subject: Bike Not Stolen. > > That's odd. > > SWMBO and I were just awoken by someone knocking on our front door; at > 0215 in PG County one views this with a bit of suspicion. Took the usual > precautions, but it turns out to be a neighbor from up the road, who's > seen the bike in the driveway... and wanted to let us know that it was now > tipped over in the middle of the street. > > Sure enough, the bike was on the right-hand side about 25 feet down from > our driveway. I haven't noticed any major damage; the brake lever is > knocked up a bit, and there's gas on the road from the carbs. > > What a pain. I need to head into work in three hours. Guess it's time to > give it a twice-over... > > Fish. > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 13 08:02:11 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: Fish Flowers , DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Re: Bike Not Stolen. Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 8:01:51 -0500 > > Glad you still have it. Did you have any kind of lock on it? Disc lock > > at least? > > Nope, none whatsoever. I suppose I naively figured that it's a quiet > neighborhood... and for the love of dear sweet Cthulhu, who would want to > steal a ratbike when there are plenty of nicer-looking bikes (Harleys, > sportbikes) in an eight-block radius? > People will steal what's easiest to steal. And an unlocked bike is definitely easy to steal. I only wonder why they gave up and left it there. Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" '92 ST1100, "red STag" '02 919, "still looking for a name" A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers.... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 13 08:11:48 2003 Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:10:28 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: Fish Flowers CC: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Bridges - (Bike Not Stolen) Fish Flowers wrote: > It was _very_ windy this morning. For the first time ever I wished there > were more traffic on the WW bridge, so I could slow down a bit more and > not feel like I was holding people up... > > Slowed down anyway. I'm stupid, not suicidal. Bridges & wind can be a PITA. Traveled to the Eastern Shore a couple years ago in a howling wind. Crossing the Nanticoke River bridge I wuz tucked in and hanging on. On the way back I ran into a car jam at the Bay Bridge. Seems this was the weekend on the bridge walk, and only one span was open. Sumbitch, clutch slipping, sometimes foot touching as the line crawled over the bridge with crosswind gusts more'n 40 mph. Adding to the thrill, the money raised from the bridge walk was going to much needed bridge maintenance, and I do mean much needed. The railings which were supposed to keep me from falling off the dang bridge should a big ol' wind gust push me in that direction were so freaking rusty huge chunks of paint were popping off! Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 13 08:15:45 2003 Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 05:15:42 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Bike Not Stolen. To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Fish Flowers wrote: > On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: > > > Glad you still have it. Did you have any kind of lock on it? Disc > lock > > at least? > > Nope, none whatsoever. I suppose I naively figured that it's a quiet > neighborhood... and for the love of dear sweet Cthulhu, who would want > to > steal a ratbike when there are plenty of nicer-looking bikes (Harleys, > sportbikes) in an eight-block radius? > Kids of course. Since it's not locked and the others probably are. Plus, since it's on its side, it was probably a crime of opportunity and they were scared off by a car or maybe the neighbor who knocked on your door. Invest in a disk lock. They're cheap (get the handlebar cable too though). Hell, I'll give you mine if you're close enough. I've got a steering lock on all three bikes. At least that'll prevent it from being pushed down the street (far :-) > Fish. > Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 13 08:16:49 2003 Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:16:30 -0500 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: fish@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Bike Not Stolen. X-AOL-IP: 65.86.98.162 Ahhhh.....but the key is, your "rat bike" didn't have any method of preventing someone from rolling it away. At least a disc lock would have prevented them from getting it as far as they did. It was probably some kid who saw locks and chains on the nicer looking bikes, nothing on yours, and figured he could get a cheap thrill that no one would probably miss. :-) Put a lock on it no matter what it looks like. ;-) I have an old one that you can have for free if you want it. I lost it, bought a new one and then found it hiding in my rear fairing a year later. It's beat up and purple but, it'll still do the trick. All you have to do is come pick it up. :-) Scooter In a message dated 11/13/2003 7:47:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, fish@XXXXXX writes: > > > On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: > > > Glad you still have it. Did you have any kind of lock on it? Disc lock > > at least? > > Nope, none whatsoever. I suppose I naively figured that it's a quiet > neighborhood... and for the love of dear sweet Cthulhu, who would want to > steal a ratbike when there are plenty of nicer-looking > bikes (Harleys, > sportbikes) in an eight-block radius? > > Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 13 08:18:51 2003 Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:18:40 -0500 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX, fish@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Bike Not Stolen. X-AOL-IP: 65.86.98.162 Something probably sppoked them off. That could be why it was on its side. Got spooked, dropped bike and ran. Scooter In a message dated 11/13/2003 8:01:51 AM Eastern Standard Time, rmeyer9@XXXXXX writes: > > > > > Glad you still have it. Did you have any kind of lock on it? Disc lock > > > at least? > > > > Nope, none whatsoever. I suppose I naively figured that it's a quiet > > neighborhood... and for the love of dear sweet Cthulhu, who would want to > > steal a ratbike when there are plenty of nicer-looking bikes (Harleys, > > sportbikes) in an eight-block radius? > > > > People will steal what's easiest to steal. And an unlocked bike is definitely easy to steal. I only wonder why they > gave up and left it there. > > Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 > '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" > '92 ST1100, "red STag" > '02 919, "still looking for a name" > > A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers.... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 13 09:11:56 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Bob McKeithen" , Subject: Re: Clutch longevity Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:10:58 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob McKeithen" > > On Wednesday, November 12, 2003, at 07:00 PM, The dc-cycles list > administrator wrote: > My Moto Guzzi now has 83,xxx miles on it and the original clutch works > just fine. Anybody want to debate the merits of dry vs wet clutches? > > Bob > Yep, 59K on the original VFR clutch and no problems. 'Course I'm not the King of the Wheelies and a lot of that is highway miles where you're not in and out of the friction zone all the time. Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 13 09:18:18 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Bike Not Stolen. Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 9:17:58 -0500 > > From: Carl Schelin > I've got a steering lock > on all three bikes. At least that'll prevent it from being pushed down the > street (far :-) Don't bet on it. A 3 or 4 foot length of pipe will snap the disk lock on pretty much every Japanese bike on the road. I know, it happened to me. I believe only my disk lock kept them from taking the bike. I now chain, or cable, my bike to a fixed object whenever possible. Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" '92 ST1100, "red STag" '02 919, "still looking for a name" A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers.... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 13 09:34:38 2003 Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 06:34:33 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Locks (was: Re: Re: Bike Not Stolen.) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Bob Meyer wrote: > > > > > From: Carl Schelin > > I've got a steering lock > > on all three bikes. At least that'll prevent it from being pushed down > the > > street (far :-) > > Don't bet on it. A 3 or 4 foot length of pipe will snap the disk lock > on pretty much every Japanese bike on the road. I know, it happened to > me. I believe only my disk lock kept them from taking the bike. > Well yea. But then it's not a crime of opportunity as likely Fish's was. Hell, someone (maybe here) said they caught a bike on skateboards. The point is to manage risk. A bike sitting unlocked on a driveway is more likely to be rolled than a bike sitting unlocked in a garage or a bike in a bike spot here in DC with the steering lock and disk lock and the ignition locked _and_ the anti-theft system enabled. > I now chain, or cable, my bike to a fixed object whenever possible. > Yep. I use the steering lock and disk lock on the Suzuki and the steering, disk, ignition locks and anti-theft system enabled on the Harley. Rita's just using the ignition and steering lock but she keeps it in the garage too. > Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 > '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" > '92 ST1100, "red STag" > '02 919, "still looking for a name" > Carl > A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers.... > Heh, she's trying :-) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 13 09:36:59 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "dc-cycles list" Subject: Re: [urpans] It's $1.22 billion Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:33:26 -0500 This can't possibly be right. Only $187M above FY03 levels and *no* shutdown?? Paul in DC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Poon" > Howie tried to post this but his server is down... > =================================================== > > By ALAN FRAM > .c The Associated Press > > WASHINGTON (AP) - House-Senate bargainers have agreed to give Amtrak $1.22 > billion for the new year, close to what railroad officials > say they need to keep trains running and maintenance projects on track. > .... > > After the Senate voted to provide $1.35 billion, Amtrak President David Gunn > wrote lawmakers that anything less would ``seriously > jeopardize the availability of service and continued operation of the national > system.'' > .... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 13 09:40:28 2003 From: "Terry Pollard" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: dc-cycles digest for 11/12/03 Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:28:29 -0500 I live in Alexandria. My condo asso. frowns at parking lot repair. I am looking for a ride buddy as well as a place locally to "tinker". I have done most of my own repairs in the past and feel crippled now that I can't. I work the night shitft(bad) but work 3 on/3 off. (good) I would love to work/ride with a local in trade for repair assistance for garage time. I guess I am looking for someone who loves motorcycles as much as me and considers tinkering time as true joy. Any responses can be sent to tgpolard@XXXXXX. Thanks in advance and I look forward to hearing from you guys/gals. Terry >From: dc-cycles-digest-request@XXXXXX (The dc-cycles list >administrator) >Reply-To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: dc-cycles digest for 11/12/03 >Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:00:01 -0500 > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > __ /-----\ __ 'dc-cycles' is an unmoderated email discussion list >(__\/ _____ \/__) about motorcycling in the Washington D.C. area. > =( \___/ )= > \ ___ / An archive of the dc-cycles list is available at: > | / _ \ | http://www.dc-cycles.org/ > \ || || / > \|| ||/ Subscribe/unsubscribe requests should be sent to: > \| |/ dc-cycles-digest-request@XXXXXX > |_| > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:01:23 -0800 (PST) >From: matthew patton >Subject: rising fatalities -> get more training! >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > >I wondered why my mailbox was seeing no list traffic. seems I got >unsubbed automatically. hope this isn't an old thread by now. > > >Got to hand the Brits major clue factor on this one. Pity that hell >will probably be an icicle before they figure out the same thing over >here and actually take suitable action. > >from www.motorcyclenews.com >Welsh police are reacting to the highest number of motorcycle >fatalities ever recorded on their roads, and posting the finger at a >lack of rider skill training >... > " Many are )B‘born again bikers’ with insufficient skills who’ve got >more cash and bought themselves powerful motorcycles, " said Anwyl. " >They haven)B’t got the skills to get themselves out of trouble. I’d >advice anyone considering going back to biking to sign up for some >training. " > >===== >* Love, not time, heals all wounds. > >* No one is perfect until you fall in love with them. And then when they >aren't perfect anymore, love makes them perfect again. > >* Everyone wants to live on top of the mountain, but all the happiness and >growth occurs while you're climbing it > >* You can not forgive unless you first love. > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard >http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree > > > _ _ _ _ > .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. > (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) > >Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:41:25 -0800 (PST) >From: matthew patton >Subject: Re: New Rider Websites? >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > >actually there is a 250cc 'hawk' but it's EU/JP only. Like the CBR400, >ZX-4R, GSXR400, SV400 and a zillion others. In countries with a brain >(ie. have tough-nosed training and graduated licensing) 400cc bikes are >lustful items and is what a huge percentage of the riding public has. > >===== >* Love, not time, heals all wounds. > >* No one is perfect until you fall in love with them. And then when they >aren't perfect anymore, love makes them perfect again. > >* Everyone wants to live on top of the mountain, but all the happiness and >growth occurs while you're climbing it > >* You can not forgive unless you first love. > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard >http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree > > > _ _ _ _ > .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. > (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) > >Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 05:38:56 -0800 (PST) >From: Carl Schelin >Subject: Testing >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > >Sorry, just testing something. Carry on. > >Carl > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard >http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree > > > _ _ _ _ > .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. > (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) > >Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:06:27 -0500 >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >From: Troutman >Subject: ../../../../../../../root/testdc > >Ignore me. Archive vuln test. > >___________________________________________ > Mike Troutman > http://www.troutman.org > > All that is now > All that is gone > All that's to come > and everything under the sun is in tune > but the sun is eclipsed by the moon. > > The lunatic is on the grass. > > > > > _ _ _ _ > .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. > (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) > >Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:50:21 -0500 >From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX >To: mike@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: ../../../../../../../root/testdc >X-AOL-IP: 65.86.98.162 > >Huh? Did somebody say something? ;-) > >Scooter > >In a message dated 11/12/2003 10:06:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, >mike@XXXXXX writes: > > > > > > > Ignore me. Archive vuln test. > > > > ___________________________________________ > > Mike Troutman > > http://www.troutman.org > > > > All that is now > > All that is gone > > All that's to come > > and everything under the sun is in tune > > but the sun is eclipsed by the moon. > > > > The lunatic is on the grass. > > > _ _ _ _ > .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. > (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) > >Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:11:44 -0800 (PST) >From: Carl Schelin >Subject: Off Topic: For Sale >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > >(I tried posting this last night from Rita's system. It seems she has >"HTML" messages turned on and the dc-cycles list bounced it. I sent the >test out earlier to make sure it was a problem with her system instead of >new rules. Sorry for the noise and thanks for the humorous replies :-) > >========= >No no, not a bike. My ping-pong table. > >It's a fold up and on four wheels. It's in really good condition. It's >been >sitting in the "rec room" for a couple of years. I'm the only one who >likes to play >and one "man" ping-pong just isn't much fun :-) and I'm reducing >inventory. > >First person with $50 (and wants it :-) gets it. > >Carl > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard >http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree > > > _ _ _ _ > .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. > (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) > >Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:14:26 -0800 (PST) >From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" >Subject: Re: ../../../../../../../root/testdc >To: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX >Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > >Only in binary. > >[on-topic moto:] Must have been a Turing machine. > >-- Larry > >--- ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: > > Huh? Did somebody say something? ;-) > > > > Scooter > > > > In a message dated 11/12/2003 10:06:27 AM Eastern Standard > > Time, mike@XXXXXX writes: > > > > > > > > > > > Ignore me. Archive vuln test. > > > > > > ___________________________________________ > > > Mike Troutman > > > http://www.troutman.org > > > > > > All that is now > > > All that is gone > > > All that's to come > > > and everything under the sun is in tune > > > but the sun is eclipsed by the moon. > > > > > > The lunatic is on the grass. > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard >http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree > > > _ _ _ _ > .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. > (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) > >Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:45:51 -0800 (PST) >From: Sean Steele >Subject: Expected lifetime for clutch + more >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > >I've heard you can expect 40-50k miles out of a bike's >original clutch (regardless of model). Two questions: >a) does that sound right and b) if a clutch goes bad >long before then, is it typically a function of >mileage, age, abuse (or something else)? > >Also, for those of you who have replaced clutches, >what is needed beyond some basic hand tools >(8/10/12/17mm sockets), replacement clutch plates, and >gasket(s)? Is it smarter for the bike (and the newbie >owner) to take it to a shop and pay for labor + >supplies? > >-Sean > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard >http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree > > > _ _ _ _ > .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. > (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) > >Subject: Re: Expected lifetime for clutch + more >From: Brian Roach >To: Sean Steele >Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Date: 12 Nov 2003 15:24:53 -0500 > >On Wed, 2003-11-12 at 14:45, Sean Steele wrote: > > I've heard you can expect 40-50k miles out of a bike's > > original clutch (regardless of model). Two questions: > > a) does that sound right and b) if a clutch goes bad > > long before then, is it typically a function of > > mileage, age, abuse (or something else)? > >40 - 50k is pretty optimistic ... but I guess it's possible. It depends >on a lot of variables. A high-horsepower sportbike is going to eat >clutches a wee bit faster than a rebel 250, and how you use the clutch >is also going to be a big factor. Partial engagement (slipping the >clutch) wears down the fiber plates. It also builds up heat which can >cause the steel plates to warp, or form carbon deposits on the steels. >If you're a guy who likes to take off from stop-light to stop-light ... >you're going to be replacing the clutch a bit before 40k miles (more >like every 6k). > > > Also, for those of you who have replaced clutches, > > what is needed beyond some basic hand tools > > (8/10/12/17mm sockets), replacement clutch plates, and > > gasket(s)? Is it smarter for the bike (and the newbie > > owner) to take it to a shop and pay for labor + > > supplies? > >It's not a tough job - probably a good one to do yourself if you want to >start doing your own maint. If you've never done one I'd suggest having >the service manual so you make sure everything goes back together the >right way, there are going to be a few washers and small parts that need >to be paid attention to. The tools you listed will be fine, and >depending on the bike you might need a gasket for the clutch cover. Some >bikes use a rubber O-ring that can be re-used by cleaning it and >applying a little grease. You want to soak the new fiber plates in oil >(I use the old oil that came out of the bike). The only "gotcha" on the >plates is that the steel plates all have to face the same direction. >There is a beveled edge on one side of the plate (the other side is flat >all the way to the edge). Doesn't matter which way (in or out) that side >goes, but every plate has to be oriented the same way. You'll also need >new oil, of course. > >- Roach > > > _ _ _ _ > .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. > (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) > >Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:46:10 -0800 (PST) >From: Leon Begeman >Subject: Re: Expected lifetime for clutch + more >To: Brian Roach , Sean Steele >Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > >--- Brian Roach wrote: > > On Wed, 2003-11-12 at 14:45, Sean Steele wrote: > > > I've heard you can expect 40-50k miles out of a > > bike's > > > original clutch (regardless of model). Two > > questions: > > > a) does that sound right and b) if a clutch goes > > bad > > > long before then, is it typically a function of > > > mileage, age, abuse (or something else)? > > > > 40 - 50k is pretty optimistic ... but I guess it's > > possible. > >I've only had 3 clutch problems in my years of riding. >1) A Honda CX650 broke a throw-out bearing somewhere >less than 60K miles. >2) A Ninja 250 wore the fingers on the basket so the >springs couldn't push the plates together easily (I >just filed it flat again and it lasted until the >engine quit for other reasons. >3) A Ninja 600 that I bought with 4K miles on it had a > clutch that slipped with agressive throttle >application. I just rode that one gently for another >10K miles then sold it as parts. > >Engines that I've had with more than 40K miles >CX650 - 60K >CX650 - 70K >GL650 - 105K >ZX6 - 80K >Ninja 250 - about 4 motors that have gone to 40K >miles. > >Leon Begeman > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard >http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree > > > _ _ _ _ > .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. > (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) > >From: "Bruce N" >To: "DC Cycles" >Subject: Re: Expected lifetime for clutch + more >Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 17:43:25 -0500 > >A good friend of mine has 65,000+ miles on his '99 900RR's original clutch. >Gimer's Duc 996 had 38k+ on it when I changed his clutch, not slipping, >just >wore the basket out. > >The first thing I recommend you have is a service manual. Read the >procedure >in the book and you should get a pretty good idea if you need any special >tools. What kind of bike? > >Bruce > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Sean Steele" >To: >Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 2:45 PM >Subject: Expected lifetime for clutch + more > > > > I've heard you can expect 40-50k miles out of a bike's > > original clutch (regardless of model). Two questions: > > a) does that sound right and b) if a clutch goes bad > > long before then, is it typically a function of > > mileage, age, abuse (or something else)? > > > > Also, for those of you who have replaced clutches, > > what is needed beyond some basic hand tools > > (8/10/12/17mm sockets), replacement clutch plates, and > > gasket(s)? Is it smarter for the bike (and the newbie > > owner) to take it to a shop and pay for labor + > > supplies? > > > > -Sean > > > _ _ _ _ > .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. > (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) > >Subject: Re: Expected lifetime for clutch + more >From: Brian Roach >To: DC Cycles >Date: 12 Nov 2003 17:59:35 -0500 > >On Wed, 2003-11-12 at 17:43, Bruce N wrote: > > A good friend of mine has 65,000+ miles on his '99 900RR's original >clutch. > > Gimer's Duc 996 had 38k+ on it when I changed his clutch, not slipping, >just > > wore the basket out. > >On the flip side, I had a slipping clutch in my Duc 900ss at about 6k >miles. But ... that comes from slipping it a lot and putting a lot of >heat into it. Re-surfacing the steel plates was all that was needed, to >remove the glazing. > >Of course, I get about 400 miles out of my TZ250 clutch :) > >- Roach > > > > _ _ _ _ > .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. > (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) > >From: "LindaT." >To: "Dc-Cycles \(Dc-Cycles\)" >Subject: RE: Expected lifetime for clutch + more >Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 18:38:28 -0500 > >Well, I haven't had a lot o' bikes, but I've never replaced a clutch. I >have 70K on my CBR and 56K on my BMW. When the tranny on the beemer was >rebuilt, I asked about the clutch. They said I still had plenty. > >YMMV > >LindaT. >http://www.customtankbags.com >Now - TankBags for 1800 Wings >Springfield, VA (suburb of our nation's capital) >AMA IBA HSTA BMWBMW >99 R1100RT Mr. Buzzy >95 F3 Purple Haze >00 KLR250 Super Sherpa Tenzing > > > > > _ _ _ _ > .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. > (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) > >Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 18:41:13 -0500 >From: Skip Smith >To: DC-Cycles >Subject: 250 for sale or rent > >I've got a friend that is looking to learn the basics. he wisely wants >to start small. anyone got a 250 for sale, or preferrably for rent? > >--skip > > _________________________________________________________________ Compare high-speed Internet plans, starting at $26.95. https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 13 09:47:49 2003 Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:46:36 -0500 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Bike Not Stolen. To: DC-Cycles Fish found his bike had fallen, and could not get up... >Nope, none whatsoever. I suppose I naively figured that it's >a quiet neighborhood... and for the love of dear sweet >Cthulhu, who would want to steal a ratbike when there are >plenty of nicer-looking bikes (Harleys, sportbikes) in an >eight-block radius? Bob contributed: People will steal what's easiest to steal. And an unlocked bike is definitely easy to steal. I only wonder why they gave up and left it there. [Dave] I agree, it was "an easy target of opportunity". I'd bet that the miscreants weren't too moto saavy, or you'd be complaining about your bike being gone about now... Bear in mind that PG county has a huge vehicle theft problem, and there aren't enough resources to deal with it, so by making your vehicles easy targets, your making it hard on everyone. First, if it's not under a cover, put it under one. Out of sight, out of mind. 2nd, get a lock or two. If the path to the bike can be obfuscated by a cage, do it. Finally, be prepared for catching any potential bike thieves. Have a "scream proof room", amateur Dentists tools, rope, duct tape, various size hammers, c-clamps, pipes, and vice grips. A chair that is anchored in concrete is also useful, along with a chainsaw or sawzall, a wash tub, and at least 30 gallons of sulfuric acid. HTH Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 13 09:53:33 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "dc-cycles list" Subject: Re: [urpans] It's $1.22 billion Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:47:48 -0500 This can't possibly be right. Only $187M above FY03 levels and *no* shutdown?? $130M below Gunn's self-proclaimed minimum (see below) and *no* shutdown?? Paul in DC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Poon" > Howie tried to post this but his server is down... > =================================================== > > By ALAN FRAM > .c The Associated Press > > WASHINGTON (AP) - House-Senate bargainers have agreed to give Amtrak $1.22 > billion for the new year, close to what railroad officials > say they need to keep trains running and maintenance projects on track. > .... > > After the Senate voted to provide $1.35 billion, Amtrak President David Gunn > wrote lawmakers that anything less would ``seriously > jeopardize the availability of service and continued operation of the national > system.'' > .... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 13 09:53:35 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "dc-cycles list" Subject: Re: [urpans] It's $1.22 billion Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:47:57 -0500 This can't possibly be right. Only $187M above FY03 levels and *no* shutdown?? $130M below Gunn's self-proclaimed minimum (see below) and *no* shutdown?? Paul in DC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Poon" > Howie tried to post this but his server is down... > =================================================== > > By ALAN FRAM > .c The Associated Press > > WASHINGTON (AP) - House-Senate bargainers have agreed to give Amtrak $1.22 > billion for the new year, close to what railroad officials > say they need to keep trains running and maintenance projects on track. > .... > > After the Senate voted to provide $1.35 billion, Amtrak President David Gunn > wrote lawmakers that anything less would ``seriously > jeopardize the availability of service and continued operation of the national > system.'' > .... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 13 10:16:02 2003 Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 07:15:59 -0800 (PST) From: Aaron Subject: Trailer not needed To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://mahonkin.com/~kenzo/misc-temp/loading_a_bike.mpeg But isn't it dangerous to transport a motorcycle in an enclosed vehicle (e.g., van)? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 13 10:22:21 2003 Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:22:02 -0500 (EST) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Trailer not needed On Thu, 13 Nov 2003, Aaron wrote: > http://mahonkin.com/~kenzo/misc-temp/loading_a_bike.mpeg > > But isn't it dangerous to transport a motorcycle in an > enclosed vehicle (e.g., van)? Only if you miss on the loading. -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 13 11:01:40 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX, Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Bike Not Stolen. Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:01:20 -0500 Oops. I meant the pipe will snap the FORK lock, not a disk lock. Sorry for any confusion. Bob > > From: Bob Meyer > Date: 2003/11/13 Thu AM 09:17:58 EST > To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Re: Bike Not Stolen. > > > > > > From: Carl Schelin > > I've got a steering lock > > on all three bikes. At least that'll prevent it from being pushed down the > > street (far :-) > > Don't bet on it. A 3 or 4 foot length of pipe will snap the disk lock on pretty much every Japanese bike on the road. I know, it happened to me. I believe only my disk lock kept them from taking the bike. > > I now chain, or cable, my bike to a fixed object whenever possible. > > Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 > '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" > '92 ST1100, "red STag" > '02 919, "still looking for a name" > > A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers.... > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 13 11:12:31 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Fish Flowers , DC-Cycles Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Bike Not Stolen. Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:12:29 -0500 Parts are parts. I have a disc lock on my front disc with a steel cable looped through the holes in the bottom of the cover. About the only other thing you can do is get an alarm and chain the bike to a large solid object. Rob On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 04:47:01 -0800 (PST), Fish Flowers wrote > On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: > > > Glad you still have it. Did you have any kind of lock on it? Disc lock > > at least? > > Nope, none whatsoever. I suppose I naively figured that it's a quiet > neighborhood... and for the love of dear sweet Cthulhu, who would > want to steal a ratbike when there are plenty of nicer-looking bikes > (Harleys, sportbikes) in an eight-block radius? > > Fish. -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 13 11:16:42 2003 Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:16:39 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Ruh Ro To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Sh*t. I went out to put money in the meter and found it on "Fail". I hate it when it does that so I pulled out the key, took off the disk lock, turned the key, lights (oil and neutral as normal), flipped the red switch to run, adjusted the choke, pulled in the clutch and hit the starter. ... Nothing. Hmm, check everything, turn key off and on, get on the bike and pull up the kick stand, put in first and back in neutral, hit the starter. ... Nothing. Well sh*t. When I hit the front brake I get a relay clicking. All the lights seem to be on and bright. Ideas? Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 13 11:44:37 2003 Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:44:33 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Weaver Subject: Re: Ruh Ro To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX I don't think this will solve it, but it's the only thing I can think of right now - on my SV, there's a small electrical connector near the base of the clutch lever. It's there to ensure that you have the clutch pulled in before the engine will start. Maybe you have one of these and it's malfunctioning? Doesn't explain the clicking though, obviously. Maybe a ground wire has come loose? Chris Weaver --- Carl Schelin wrote: > Sh*t. > > I went out to put money in the meter and found it on > "Fail". I hate it > when it does that so I pulled out the key, took off > the disk lock, turned > the key, lights (oil and neutral as normal), flipped > the red switch to > run, adjusted the choke, pulled in the clutch and > hit the starter. > > ... > > Nothing. > > Hmm, check everything, turn key off and on, get on > the bike and pull up > the kick stand, put in first and back in neutral, > hit the starter. > > ... > > Nothing. > > Well sh*t. > > When I hit the front brake I get a relay clicking. > All the lights seem to > be on and bright. > > Ideas? > > Carl > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 13 11:52:41 2003 Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:52:37 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Ruh Ro To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I thought of the switch but it's started before. I'm going to look at it at lunch. Fish suggested the solenoid and I've called Rita for a pickup in case nothing else works. I knew I should have taken the more reliable Harley this morning. Carl --- Chris Weaver wrote: > I don't think this will solve it, but it's the only > thing I can think of right now - on my SV, there's a > small electrical connector near the base of the clutch > lever. It's there to ensure that you have the clutch > pulled in before the engine will start. Maybe you have > one of these and it's malfunctioning? Doesn't explain > the clicking though, obviously. > > Maybe a ground wire has come loose? > > Chris Weaver > > > --- Carl Schelin wrote: > > Sh*t. > > > > I went out to put money in the meter and found it on > > "Fail". I hate it > > when it does that so I pulled out the key, took off > > the disk lock, turned > > the key, lights (oil and neutral as normal), flipped > > the red switch to > > run, adjusted the choke, pulled in the clutch and > > hit the starter. > > > > ... > > > > Nothing. > > > > Hmm, check everything, turn key off and on, get on > > the bike and pull up > > the kick stand, put in first and back in neutral, > > hit the starter. > > > > ... > > > > Nothing. > > > > Well sh*t. > > > > When I hit the front brake I get a relay clicking. > > All the lights seem to > > be on and bright. > > > > Ideas? > > > > Carl > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > > http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 13 11:54:48 2003 From: "stephen" To: Subject: Apologies Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:53:10 -0500 My apologies if I almost killed you last night. A motorcyclist was heading Southbound on 16th Street just North of East/West Highway in the rain. Not sure of the bike, but for the 0.1 seconds that it was in my headlights I thought it might be a VFR. Now, I have to say that I did not see you at all, and that was the reason that I almost knocked you down. When following cars at night in the rain, I recommend a following distance of at least two seconds. By my estimation, six feet (max) is significantly less than that. I got to the exit to the apt. building, checked for pedestrians, checked traffic, checked for pedestrians again (there area lot of them at that exit), went to pull into traffic behind some white car as it was driving by and fortunately notice there was a motorcycle there. Good thing it was raining or I'd have given it more gas when pulling into traffic like that and then I wouldn't have had enough time on the brakes to avoid you. Hopefully you got home safely, but seriously even in the dry we need to think about following distances. Just because we can see around the cars doesn't mean they can't do stupid things when squirrels run into the streets (etc.). Stephen From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 13 11:57:53 2003 Reply-To: "Jon Strang" From: "Jon Strang" To: "Carl Schelin" Cc: Subject: Re: Ruh Ro Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:57:50 -0500 'Relay clicking' could just be the usual limit switch click that has always been there, but you're over-sensitized since bike not vroom-vroom. Another frequent cause of your symptoms is failure of the kickstand limit switch. That's the little switch the kickstand operates that doesn't let the bike start when the kickstand is down. good luck. --jon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Schelin" To: Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 11:16 AM Subject: Ruh Ro > Sh*t. > > I went out to put money in the meter and found it on "Fail". I hate it > when it does that so I pulled out the key, took off the disk lock, turned > the key, lights (oil and neutral as normal), flipped the red switch to > run, adjusted the choke, pulled in the clutch and hit the starter. > > ... > > Nothing. > > Hmm, check everything, turn key off and on, get on the bike and pull up > the kick stand, put in first and back in neutral, hit the starter. > > ... > > Nothing. > > Well sh*t. > > When I hit the front brake I get a relay clicking. All the lights seem to > be on and bright. > > Ideas? > > Carl > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 13 12:06:52 2003 From: Han Park To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Ruh Ro Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:06:51 -0500 Something similar happened to my F4. Turned out the bolt holding one of the battery terminals was loose. Worth a quick check. han > -----Original Message----- > From: Carl Schelin [mailto:dm_gsxr@XXXXXX] > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 11:53 AM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Ruh Ro > > > I thought of the switch but it's started before. > > I'm going to look at it at lunch. > > Fish suggested the solenoid and I've called Rita for a pickup in case > nothing else works. > > I knew I should have taken the more reliable Harley this morning. > > Carl > > > --- Chris Weaver wrote: > > I don't think this will solve it, but it's the only > > thing I can think of right now - on my SV, there's a > > small electrical connector near the base of the clutch > > lever. It's there to ensure that you have the clutch > > pulled in before the engine will start. Maybe you have > > one of these and it's malfunctioning? Doesn't explain > > the clicking though, obviously. > > > > Maybe a ground wire has come loose? > > > > Chris Weaver > > > > > > --- Carl Schelin wrote: > > > Sh*t. > > > > > > I went out to put money in the meter and found it on > > > "Fail". I hate it > > > when it does that so I pulled out the key, took off > > > the disk lock, turned > > > the key, lights (oil and neutral as normal), flipped > > > the red switch to > > > run, adjusted the choke, pulled in the clutch and > > > hit the starter. > > > > > > ... > > > > > > Nothing. > > > > > > Hmm, check everything, turn key off and on, get on > > > the bike and pull up > > > the kick stand, put in first and back in neutral, > > > hit the starter. > > > > > > ... > > > > > > Nothing. > > > > > > Well sh*t. > > > > > > When I hit the front brake I get a relay clicking. > > > All the lights seem to > > > be on and bright. > > > > > > Ideas? > > > > > > Carl > > > > > > __________________________________ > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > > > http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > > http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 13 12:25:37 2003 From: "stephen" To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: RE: Bike Not Stolen. Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:23:45 -0500 There's some powerful magnetism in PG county. My car and my friend's Ranger (when stolen) went there. The DC area is terrible for vehicle thefts and motorcycle thefts particularly. Admittedly not as bad as NYC, but it's up there. There are no end of theft stories so lets not start that thread. Suffice it to say, we know where the vehicles go and from whence they never return. You can only deter thieves. If you actually stop them in the act they'll either attempt to kill you or successfully sue you for curtailing their tax-free "earnings". Life sure is sweet in the nation's capital. Stephen > -----Original Message----- > From: Fish Flowers [mailto:fish@XXXXXX] > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 2:20 AM > To: DC-Cycles > Subject: Bike Not Stolen. > > 0215 in PG County From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 13 12:50:33 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Dave Yates" , "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: Bike Not Stolen. Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:49:41 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Yates" > Fish found his bike had fallen, and could not get up... > > >Nope, none whatsoever. I suppose I naively figured that it's > >a quiet neighborhood... and for the love of dear sweet > >Cthulhu, who would want to steal a ratbike when there are > >plenty of nicer-looking bikes (Harleys, sportbikes) in an > >eight-block radius? > First, if it's not under a cover, put it under one. Out of > sight, out of mind. 2nd, get a lock or two. > > > Dave Yates > Harden the targets. As Dave sez, when it comes to protection, may I recommend a simple cover? That's what I do. A cover adds a little element of risk and uncertainty to the whole operation. Exquisite liter sportbike or ratty old VFR? Only one way to tell, lift off the cover. Unfortunately, that takes time, especially when you put a cable lock through the grommets underneath the bike. I add a disk lock, too, to deter roll away theft. Anything that slows down a thief is golden why I park the bikes. Lots of passersby at all hours. BTW, my deepest apologies to the list for the email mind fart of this morning. I have turned off "auto complete" in the To: field. Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 13 13:01:41 2003 Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:56:50 -0500 To: Fish Flowers , DC-Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Bike Not Stolen. At 04:47 AM 11/13/03 -0800, Fish Flowers wrote: >Nope, none whatsoever. I suppose I naively figured that it's a quiet >neighborhood... and for the love of dear sweet Cthulhu, who would want to >steal a ratbike when there are plenty of nicer-looking bikes (Harleys, >sportbikes) in an eight-block radius? Someone who didn't want to have to mess with the locks and alarms on those bikes? -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 13 13:01:51 2003 Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:01:35 -0500 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Bike Not Stolen. At 05:15 AM 11/13/03 -0800, Carl Schelin wrote: >Kids of course. Since it's not locked and the others probably are. Plus, >since it's on its side, it was probably a crime of opportunity and they >were scared off by a car or maybe the neighbor who knocked on your door. Or maybe they didn't know how to push it, lost balance and dropped it, and weren't strong enough to pick it up again? Or maybe they changed their minds? Who knows? >Invest in a disk lock. They're cheap (get the handlebar cable too though). >Hell, I'll give you mine if you're close enough. I've got a steering lock >on all three bikes. At least that'll prevent it from being pushed down the >street (far :-) I've got the steering lock built into the bike, and a silent alarm, but I'm still going to get a disk lock. The Kryptonite one I have won't fit through the holes on my front rotor. Hey, Fish, wanna buy a nice, pretty much new, lock? :^) If it will fit on your bike, it will be a good deal, I promise. Contact me off list if interested. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 13 13:21:28 2003 Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:21:24 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: It's running (was Ruh Ro) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Ok, I grabbed a friend and we went out to try and push start it. He asked all the same questions I and you guys have asked. When we got there I checked the terminals and the interconnect switch on the kick stand. No apparent issues there. However, when we got ready to push it, I put it into 2nd gear and he heard a click. So I tried to start it and she starts. So it sounds like something's out of whack in the transmission. I'll go ahead and ride it home and then check the service manual for solutions as well as check the things you guys may propose in response to this message. Thanks again. Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 13 13:32:33 2003 Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:31:21 -0500 To: "stephen" , "DC-Cycles" From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: Bike Not Stolen. At 12:23 PM 11/13/03 -0500, stephen wrote: >If you actually stop them in the act >they'll either attempt to kill you or successfully sue you for curtailing >their tax-free "earnings". Life sure is sweet in the nation's capital. That's probably why there should be a "regrettable accident" involving the thieves and you should be somewhere else at the time with a number of good witnesses to back you up... -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 13 13:32:33 2003 Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:29:18 -0500 To: "stephen" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Apologies At 11:53 AM 11/13/03 -0500, stephen wrote: >When following cars at night in the rain, I recommend a following distance >of at least two seconds. By my estimation, six feet (max) is significantly >less than that. 2 seconds is the recommended following distance for daytime and dry pavement. It should be longer when traction is harder to maintain. Around here, with traffic density what it is, it can be hard to maintain proper distance of course (some idiot always moves into it, endangering both of you), but that's the ideal. >Just because we can see around the cars >doesn't mean they can't do stupid things when squirrels run into the streets >(etc.). Very true. Tests have shown that a normal human will take at least .2 seconds to recognize a need to brake and start to get on the brakes. During that time there is NO braking going on for you, but for the guy piled onto the brakes in front of you, who's brake lights triggered your need to brake, it's happening big time. His speed is dropping rapidly, your's isn't changing at all. For .2 seconds AT LEAST (unless you are Superman or something, with literal nerves of steel to reduce propagation delays). If you are distracted or otherwise not paying enough attention, the delay before you get on the brakes can be much longer. At 40 mph you are moving roughly 58 feet per second. That means that you will travel about 12' in the time it takes you to realize that you need to brake...so you have 12' less space to stop in, and the guy ahead of you has a head start on that. Obviously, if you are closer than 12' you will hit him before you even start to apply your brakes. 12' doesn't seem like much...unless that's the 12' you needed to avoid the accident. A 2 second following distance, at 40 mph, is only 116', or about 5 car lengths. Subtract the .2 second "reaction time" loss, and you still have over 100' to get stopped, even if the guy ahead of you hit a brick wall and stopped instantly...but he usually has to stop too, so you get more space. He did start at least .2 seconds ahead of you though, so you are behind the curve here, and the extra room is important. Most of us don't run into "panic stops" all that often so we get lulled into a false sense of security about how fast we can stop. The folks ahead are usually braking at a nice easy pace, so we can keep up no problem, even if we are behind the curve to start with...we just brake a bit harder to get in synch, and no problem (though with a whole line of tailgaters the cumulative "error" adds up, and eventually the guy on the end just doesn't have the stopping power to avoid a collision...I've seen that happen more than once). But when the guy ahead is stopping as fast as he can to avoid the guy in front of *him*, you don't usually have that extra braking ability to draw on, and if you don't have enough room to make up for your late start on stopping, you go boom. On bikes we often have an option of swerving and going around if we can't stop in time...we don't need all that much room to get by in an emergency. However, that isn't always the case. My one and only bike accident was a little fender-bender where going around wasn't an option. New Yorker (car) was 45 degrees across the lane, a car transporter to the left and a telephone pole and ditch to the right...stop or hit...and I didn't *quite* manage to stop. Following distance is your friend... -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 13 13:35:33 2003 Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:35:31 -0500 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: It's running (was Ruh Ro) At 10:21 AM 11/13/03 -0800, Carl Schelin wrote: >However, when we got ready to push it, I put it into 2nd gear and he heard >a click. So I tried to start it and she starts. > >So it sounds like something's out of whack in the transmission. Could the starter solenoid have gotten stuck? Or failed to engage due to the exact position of the teeth until you rolled it a bit in gear? It sounds like the neutral switch, except that you said the neutral indicator lamp was lit... -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 13 13:42:51 2003 Subject: RE: It's running (was Ruh Ro) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:42:44 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: On the old Honda VF750, as I park it in gear and rolled forward (backward) to take up slack in the chain; I sometimes have to "bump" it forward/backward in gear to allow it to start. I can get the green nuetral light, but there seems to be something preventing the starter from even engaging. Roll it forward, or backward, pop clutch to free up whatever is sticking, and it starts right up. I was reminded of it when I read the resolution post. I didn't know it happened to newer bikes, I had thought maybe it had something to do with older V4's. Robert -----Original Message----- From: Mike Bartman [mailto:omni@XXXXXX] Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 1:36 PM To: Carl Schelin; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: It's running (was Ruh Ro) At 10:21 AM 11/13/03 -0800, Carl Schelin wrote: >However, when we got ready to push it, I put it into 2nd gear and he heard >a click. So I tried to start it and she starts. > >So it sounds like something's out of whack in the transmission. Could the starter solenoid have gotten stuck? Or failed to engage due to the exact position of the teeth until you rolled it a bit in gear? It sounds like the neutral switch, except that you said the neutral indicator lamp was lit... -- Mike B. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 13 13:44:18 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: Bike Not Stolen. Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:44:04 -0500 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79cede32d434490383ca5f3c4de2405ccf350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Mike B suggests: > That's probably why there should be a "regrettable accident" involving the > thieves and you should be somewhere else at the time with a number of good > witnesses to back you up... [Dave] "Hey Fish, what's that mound of dirt there in the back yard?" F: "compost." From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 13 13:55:19 2003 Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:55:16 -0500 To: From: Troutman Subject: RE: It's running (was Ruh Ro) / Garage Same thing on my '97 VFR. This, combined with an intermittent reg/rec 2 years ago almost drove me insane. I think I held onto my brain though. Sometimes flicking the key on and off a few times along with the kill switch would jar something loose, but rolling it a bit would always fix it. In the end it fixed itself. Now that my shed is here and mostly completed (see troutman.org for pics) I can detail the garage. Not big enough for 2 cars and a bike, but plenty big for the Thnderbird and VFR (plus maybe an SV650 next summer). As someone else did earlier this year I'll be building a magic garage with rubber non skid flooring, wainscot, and nicer cabinets than the 2x4 / plywood storage and workspace I have now. I can't wait. At 01:42 PM 11/13/2003, Verde, Robert wrote: >On the old Honda VF750, as I park it in gear and rolled forward (backward) >to take up slack in the chain; I sometimes have to "bump" it >forward/backward in gear to allow it to start. I can get the green >nuetral light, but there seems to be something preventing the starter from >even engaging. Roll it forward, or backward, pop clutch to free up >whatever is sticking, and it starts right up. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org All that is now All that is gone All that's to come and everything under the sun is in tune but the sun is eclipsed by the moon. The lunatic is on the grass. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 13 14:30:55 2003 Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:30:53 -0800 (PST) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Aaaa Wind! Some unexpected lane changes on the way home. Luckily, I was being super-double-plus-extra paranoid about lane placement and staying away from cars and trucks. On the plus side, I've found two very distinct advantages to extremely windy days: First, on those rare instances when the wind is gusting immediately behind you, you can actually hear your engine at highway speeds. (Mine is very whiny.) Second, I no longer need to rake my front lawn. Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 13 15:36:58 2003 Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:36:42 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Aaaa Wind! To: Fish Flowers , DC-Cycles --- Fish Flowers wrote: > On the plus side, I've found two very distinct advantages > to extremely windy days: First, on those rare instances > when the wind is gusting immediately behind you, you can > actually hear your engine at highway speeds. (Mine is > very whiny.) Second, I no longer need to rake my front > lawn. It also gives you an excuse for crouching and tucking on your GS-500 as though it was a GSX-1000 without looking like a complete nimrod.... Of course the top speed into the wind of roughly 30mph doesn't help with the image. 8;) -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 13 15:51:07 2003 Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:50:13 -0500 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: jarvis22201@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Trailer not needed X-AOL-IP: 65.86.98.162 OK. How'd that guy avoid decapitating himself? No roof in the van? Good clip though. :-) Scooter In a message dated 11/13/2003 10:15:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, jarvis22201@XXXXXX writes: > > > > http://mahonkin.com/~kenzo/misc-temp/loading_a_bike.mpeg > > But isn't it dangerous to transport a motorcycle in an > enclosed vehicle (e.g., van)? > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 13 16:00:59 2003 From: "Jim McGonigle" To: Subject: RE: Trailer not needed Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:00:06 -0500 Because its fake... -----Original Message----- From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX [mailto:ScooterFZR@XXXXXX] Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 3:50 PM To: jarvis22201@XXXXXX; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Trailer not needed OK. How'd that guy avoid decapitating himself? No roof in the van? Good clip though. :-) Scooter In a message dated 11/13/2003 10:15:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, jarvis22201@XXXXXX writes: > > > > http://mahonkin.com/~kenzo/misc-temp/loading_a_bike.mpeg > > But isn't it dangerous to transport a motorcycle in an enclosed > vehicle (e.g., van)? > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 13 20:33:55 2003 From: "Mobacc" To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: Bike Not Stolen. Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:26:58 -0500 From: Bob Meyer . . . snip I now chain, or cable, my bike to a fixed object whenever possible. *****Yes, particularly when travelling. A first order of business at new lodgings -- how to cable up the bike to a post/fence, hopefully in a lit, observed area. Been tempted to take the bike into the room on occasion. Bill S. / DC '99 VN750 > Prefer double beds, cable Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 13 22:50:09 2003 Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 22:33:29 -0500 To: "Jim McGonigle" , From: Bob Meyer Subject: RE: Trailer not needed At 04:00 PM 11/13/03 -0500, Jim McGonigle wrote: >Because its fake... I'd like to how how it was faked. I've looked through it frame by frame. I don't see any evidence of the bike going *behind* the van. The rear of the van drops at the same moment the rear wheel hits the back end of the van (looks like he landed just a hair short--the rear wheel appears to hit the back bumper of the van). And the van moves down hill at what appears to be the right moment, in sync with the movement of the bike and the sound of the crash. But the guys head sure doesn't appear to miss the roof of the van by much. And I sure hope to hell the front of the cargo area of that thing was covered with several layers of matresses. All I can figure is the idiot was trying to get on his country's version of Jackass. Bob Meyer, STOC # 1157 '92 ST1100, Candy Glory Red '02 ST1100 A, Candy Wineberry Red '02 919, Asphalt "Attack Life. It's going to kill you anyway." From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 14 06:44:56 2003 Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 03:44:18 -0800 (PST) From: "Louis F. Caplan" Subject: Re: Aaaa Wind! To: DC-Cycles --- Fish Flowers wrote: > On the plus side, I've found two very distinct advantages to extremely > windy days: First, on those rare instances when the wind is gusting > immediately behind you, you can actually hear your engine at highway > speeds. (Mine is very whiny.) > Second, I no longer need to rake my front lawn. A major disadvantage I found was like this morning. Came out and found the bike on it's side. *sigh* I righted her up, but since I was already running late, couldn't do a full damage check. I saw the footpeg on the ground, and some broken glass, so the mirror is toast too. Of course the bike is due for state safety inspection this month on top of everything else. Damn wind. Louis ===== "Admiral" Louis Caplan 1998 Kawasaki Concours Fairfax, VA Please consider helping me support the Pediatrics Brain Tumor Foundation http://www.geocities.com/nighthawk700/rideforkids.htm __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 14 07:03:29 2003 Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 04:03:29 -0800 (PST) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Aaaa Wind! On Fri, 14 Nov 2003, Louis F. Caplan wrote: > A major disadvantage I found was like this morning. Came out and found > the bike on it's side. Yuck. Sorry to hear it. I stowed Frankenbike in the garage last night, so she stayed upright, but I had a very _interesting_ ride in today. Bah. Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 14 07:52:21 2003 From: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" To: "'Jim McGonigle'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Trailer not needed Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 07:52:11 -0500 This was really funny nice editing job. Kind of reminded me of that what were they thinking show that's on cable. -----Original Message----- From: Jim McGonigle [mailto:jmcgonigle@XXXXXX] Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 4:00 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Trailer not needed Because its fake... -----Original Message----- From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX [mailto:ScooterFZR@XXXXXX] Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 3:50 PM To: jarvis22201@XXXXXX; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Trailer not needed OK. How'd that guy avoid decapitating himself? No roof in the van? Good clip though. :-) Scooter In a message dated 11/13/2003 10:15:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, jarvis22201@XXXXXX writes: > > > > http://mahonkin.com/~kenzo/misc-temp/loading_a_bike.mpeg > > But isn't it dangerous to transport a motorcycle in an enclosed > vehicle (e.g., van)? > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 14 09:53:11 2003 From: "Shigeru Honda" To: "dc-cycles" Subject: Busted for lane splitting Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:46:32 -0500 I know this kind of discussion was here before and I should have paid more attention. I got reckless driving ticket for lane splitting on west bound 66 and need some help. The officer gave me a sheet and made me sign it saying that I have to go to a traffic court in February. What happens when you get a reckless driving ticket? will I get a stiff fine and have my license suspended or taken away? Should I get a lawyer? if so, any recommendation? price? I'm so freaked out... I didn't think lane splitting was this serious. Any advise is appreciated. thanks --------------------- Shigeru Honda 98 SuperHawk (Street) 99 750 SS (Track #881) 02 MZ Skorpion Tour (New Toy) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 14 09:58:50 2003 Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 06:58:37 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Busted for lane splitting To: Shigeru Honda , dc-cycles Sorry to hear about this Shigeru. You probably should get a lawyer, others will advise. Can you please give us some details on what happened? Thanks --- Shigeru Honda wrote: > I know this kind of discussion was here before and I > should have paid more > attention. > I got reckless driving ticket for lane splitting on > west bound 66 and need > some help. > > The officer gave me a sheet and made me sign it > saying that I have to go to > a traffic court in February. > What happens when you get a reckless driving ticket? > will I get a stiff fine > and have my license suspended or taken away? > Should I get a lawyer? if so, any recommendation? > price? > > I'm so freaked out... I didn't think lane splitting > was this serious. > Any advise is appreciated. thanks > > --------------------- > Shigeru Honda > 98 SuperHawk (Street) > 99 750 SS (Track #881) > 02 MZ Skorpion Tour (New Toy) > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 14 10:06:09 2003 Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:06:06 -0500 To: "dc-cycles" From: Troutman Subject: Re: Busted for lane splitting At 09:46 AM 11/14/2003, Shigeru Honda wrote: >I got reckless driving ticket for lane splitting on west bound 66 and need >some help. > >The officer gave me a sheet and made me sign it saying that I have to go to >a traffic court in February. >What happens when you get a reckless driving ticket? will I get a stiff fine >and have my license suspended or taken away? You will get a large fine (at least $200 likely) and can lose your license. License loss is not likely if you have nothing on your record, unless the judge has a thing against bikes. You can get up to a year in jail and $2,500 in fines. >Should I get a lawyer? if so, any recommendation? price? Yes! Reckless is a jailable offense in Virginia for some reason. It is a calls 1 misdemeanor, the same as a DWI. Always get a lawyer if you could go to jail. >I'm so freaked out... I didn't think lane splitting was this serious. It isn't that serious in the city at stoplights. At speed on the highway is just silly unless you are in California. Can you fill in the details on what happened? Make for interesting Friday reading. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 14 10:07:40 2003 Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:06:25 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: Shigeru Honda CC: dc-cycles Subject: Re: Busted for lane splitting Reckless - Yeeouch! Could be the LEO was in a foul mood, or could be you exceeded the safe limit of a lane split. Methinks the allowed lane split in CA is not more than 15 MPH and only when traffic is stopped or close to stopped. If traffic was cruising along at 30 or so and you were honking on betwixt the lanes, reckless makes sense. Repeat dc-cycles mantra - hire a lawyer. Bill Shigeru Honda wrote: > I know this kind of discussion was here before and I should have paid more > attention. > I got reckless driving ticket for lane splitting on west bound 66 and need > some help. > > The officer gave me a sheet and made me sign it saying that I have to go to > a traffic court in February. > What happens when you get a reckless driving ticket? will I get a stiff fine > and have my license suspended or taken away? > Should I get a lawyer? if so, any recommendation? price? > > I'm so freaked out... I didn't think lane splitting was this serious. > Any advise is appreciated. thanks > > --------------------- > Shigeru Honda > 98 SuperHawk (Street) > 99 750 SS (Track #881) > 02 MZ Skorpion Tour (New Toy) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 14 10:09:20 2003 Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:09:19 -0500 To: "dc-cycles" From: Troutman Subject: Re: Busted for lane splitting (details) This is a good site to get background on reckless. http://vatrafficlaw.com/reckless.html Apparently the courts are handing down bigger fines and suspensions more often due to political pressure. If I were you, I would somehow push the issue that you were not lane splitting intentionally. You were forced into it by aggressive drivers, high winds, and star alignment. Again, more details would help. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 14 10:18:05 2003 Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:17:38 -0500 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Busted for lane splitting To: dc-cycles >I know this kind of discussion was here before and I should >have paid more attention. I got reckless driving ticket for >lane splitting on west bound 66 and need some help. > >The officer gave me a sheet and made me sign it saying that >I have to go to a traffic court in February. >What happens when you get a reckless driving ticket? will I >get a stiff fine and have my license suspended or taken away? >Should I get a lawyer? if so, any recommendation? price? > >I'm so freaked out... I didn't think lane splitting was this >serious. [Dave] I second the lawyer reccomendation. Reckless in VA is actually a misdemeanor criminal violation which _can_ carry jail time. You would have to be a real "one percenter" to earn jail as a sentence though. The court just wants your money, and putting you in the grey bar hotel costs THEM money. Let's put that aside for now though, this would cost you significant fine and insurance money, so you should definitely get adequate legal representation. Now, you're probably going to be assailed by the anti-lane splitters here, praised and deified as a hero by pro-lane splitters. Personally, it doesn't hurt my feelings one bit that you (allegedly) lane split. I would caution however that 66w is a "known target area" of the state police, and they make a significant contribution to their operating budget by working the 66w corridor out to Manassas every weekday afternoon. I can understand why too; that road needs to be 12 lanes wide each way with no HOV bullshit. There have been recent discussions about lawyers, so you should be able to do an archive search and turn up a couple names. Also, the NMA has a list at www.motorists.org Good luck. Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 14 10:18:06 2003 From: "Shigeru Honda" To: "dc-cycles" Subject: Re: Busted for lane splitting Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:11:26 -0500 Little more detail, It was around 3pm on 66. The traffic was jammed up moving very slowly, so I just went through between cars (in the middle of left & right lane of 2 lane section of 66, near Falls Church). I came close to a big SUV on the right lane and ooops, there was a cop car in front of it. I tried not to pass the cop car and moved to the left lane but the cop told me to pull over. I was nice to her, but she said that she had been monitoring me approaching with her mirror. --------------------- Shigeru Honda 98 SuperHawk (Street) 99 750 SS (Track #881) 02 MZ Skorpion Tour (New Toy) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Kitchell" To: "Shigeru Honda" ; "dc-cycles" Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 9:58 AM Subject: Re: Busted for lane splitting > Sorry to hear about this Shigeru. You probably > should get a lawyer, others will advise. > > Can you please give us some details on what happened? > Thanks > > > --- Shigeru Honda wrote: > > I know this kind of discussion was here before and I > > should have paid more > > attention. > > I got reckless driving ticket for lane splitting on > > west bound 66 and need > > some help. > > > > The officer gave me a sheet and made me sign it > > saying that I have to go to > > a traffic court in February. > > What happens when you get a reckless driving ticket? > > will I get a stiff fine > > and have my license suspended or taken away? > > Should I get a lawyer? if so, any recommendation? > > price? > > > > I'm so freaked out... I didn't think lane splitting > > was this serious. > > Any advise is appreciated. thanks > > > > --------------------- > > Shigeru Honda > > 98 SuperHawk (Street) > > 99 750 SS (Track #881) > > 02 MZ Skorpion Tour (New Toy) > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 14 10:21:18 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Mark Kitchell" , "dc-cycles" Subject: Re: Busted for lane splitting Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:18:27 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Kitchell" > Sorry to hear about this Shigeru. You probably > should get a lawyer, others will advise. > > Can you please give us some details on what happened? > Thanks > > > --- Shigeru Honda wrote: > > I know this kind of discussion was here before and I > > should have paid more > > attention. > > I got reckless driving ticket for lane splitting on > > west bound 66 .... All the more reason *not* to lane-split in the Commonwealth, where the statute book sez (I paraphrase) "an operator of any vehicle sharing a lane abreast of another vehicle shall be guilty of reckless driving." FWIW, did anyone else see the big speeding dragnet the state cops had set up on the Dulles/66 access road last Friday? It was near the 123 exit, where the Dulles-only lanes split off. Must have had a dozen state cops and cruisers and an equal number of cars pulled over getting written up. Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 14 10:21:33 2003 From: "Bruce N" To: "dc-cycles" Subject: Re: Busted for lane splitting Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:21:26 -0500 Not sure if this is still the case but in the past the 6 demerit points for reckless driving in VA remained on your record for 11 years. Points from lower infractions only stay on your record for 3 years. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shigeru Honda" > I know this kind of discussion was here before and I should have paid more > attention. > I got reckless driving ticket for lane splitting on west bound 66 and need > some help. > > The officer gave me a sheet and made me sign it saying that I have to go to > a traffic court in February. > What happens when you get a reckless driving ticket? will I get a stiff fine > and have my license suspended or taken away? > Should I get a lawyer? if so, any recommendation? price? > > I'm so freaked out... I didn't think lane splitting was this serious. > Any advise is appreciated. thanks From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 14 10:24:45 2003 Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 07:24:35 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Busted for lane splitting To: DC Cycles Another reason to hate SUVs. I wonder what would have happened if you had seen her before, pulled into a lane and then exited? --- Shigeru Honda wrote: > Little more detail, > It was around 3pm on 66. The traffic was jammed up > moving very slowly, so I > just went through between cars (in the middle of > left & right lane of 2 lane > section of 66, near Falls Church). > I came close to a big SUV on the right lane and > ooops, there was a cop car > in front of it. I tried not to pass the cop car and > moved to the left lane > but the cop told me to pull over. I was nice to her, > but she said that she > had been monitoring me approaching with her mirror. > > --------------------- > Shigeru Honda > 98 SuperHawk (Street) > 99 750 SS (Track #881) > 02 MZ Skorpion Tour (New Toy) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Kitchell" > To: "Shigeru Honda" ; > "dc-cycles" > > Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 9:58 AM > Subject: Re: Busted for lane splitting > > > > Sorry to hear about this Shigeru. You probably > > should get a lawyer, others will advise. > > > > Can you please give us some details on what > happened? > > Thanks > > > > > > --- Shigeru Honda wrote: > > > I know this kind of discussion was here before > and I > > > should have paid more > > > attention. > > > I got reckless driving ticket for lane splitting > on > > > west bound 66 and need > > > some help. > > > > > > The officer gave me a sheet and made me sign it > > > saying that I have to go to > > > a traffic court in February. > > > What happens when you get a reckless driving > ticket? > > > will I get a stiff fine > > > and have my license suspended or taken away? > > > Should I get a lawyer? if so, any > recommendation? > > > price? > > > > > > I'm so freaked out... I didn't think lane > splitting > > > was this serious. > > > Any advise is appreciated. thanks > > > > > > --------------------- > > > Shigeru Honda > > > 98 SuperHawk (Street) > > > 99 750 SS (Track #881) > > > 02 MZ Skorpion Tour (New Toy) > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail > AddressGuard > > http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 14 10:26:17 2003 From: Sunil Doshi Subject: Re: Busted for lane splitting Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:26:00 -0500 To: DC Cycles I would definitely hire a lawyer. They can probably get it reduced from reckless. The fine is most likely more than $200. I got a speeding ticket a few months ago for going 44 in a 25 and it was $250. Getting the charge reduced is huge... if not only for your future insurance premiums. Figure that in when thinking about the price of hiring a lawyer. On Nov 14, 2003, at 9:46 AM, Shigeru Honda wrote: > I know this kind of discussion was here before and I should have paid > more > attention. > I got reckless driving ticket for lane splitting on west bound 66 and > need > some help. > > The officer gave me a sheet and made me sign it saying that I have to > go to > a traffic court in February. > What happens when you get a reckless driving ticket? will I get a > stiff fine > and have my license suspended or taken away? > Should I get a lawyer? if so, any recommendation? price? > > I'm so freaked out... I didn't think lane splitting was this serious. > Any advise is appreciated. thanks > > --------------------- > Shigeru Honda > 98 SuperHawk (Street) > 99 750 SS (Track #881) > 02 MZ Skorpion Tour (New Toy) > > sunil :: proteus / changing your shape for the future sunil doshi, senior interface designer tel [202.452.6800 x101] [202.452.6866] fax http://proteus.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 14 10:31:21 2003 From: Sunil Doshi Subject: Re: Busted for lane splitting Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:31:16 -0500 To: DC Cycles Here is the breakdown of how points work in VA: http://www.dmv.state.va.us/webdoc/citizen/drivers/points_assess.asp On Nov 14, 2003, at 10:21 AM, Bruce N wrote: > Not sure if this is still the case but in the past the 6 demerit > points for > reckless driving in VA remained on your record for 11 years. Points > from > lower infractions only stay on your record for 3 years. > > Someone correct me if I'm wrong. > > Bruce > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Shigeru Honda" > >> I know this kind of discussion was here before and I should have paid >> more >> attention. >> I got reckless driving ticket for lane splitting on west bound 66 and >> need >> some help. >> >> The officer gave me a sheet and made me sign it saying that I have to >> go > to >> a traffic court in February. >> What happens when you get a reckless driving ticket? will I get a >> stiff > fine >> and have my license suspended or taken away? >> Should I get a lawyer? if so, any recommendation? price? >> >> I'm so freaked out... I didn't think lane splitting was this serious. >> Any advise is appreciated. thanks > > sunil :: proteus / changing your shape for the future sunil doshi, senior interface designer tel [202.452.6800 x101] [202.452.6866] fax http://proteus.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 14 10:38:31 2003 Subject: RE: Busted for lane splitting Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:38:22 -0500 From: "Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services" To: "Paul Wilson" , "Mark Kitchell" , "dc-cycles" > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Wilson [mailto:pawilson@XXXXXX] > FWIW, did anyone else see the big speeding dragnet the state > cops had set up > on the Dulles/66 access road last Friday? It was near the > 123 exit, where > the Dulles-only lanes split off. Must have had a dozen state cops and > cruisers and an equal number of cars pulled over getting written up. It appears that yesterday was enforcement day. I saw a cop monitoring traffic on 66W, right past 495N exit. I make my 66 commute into the city every day - starting in Falls Church - and there are almost NO cops there EVER. Heading east, I have only seen cops radaring once, and that was during that week-long enforcement bust during the summer. Heading west - upto 495 - there are only two spots where they very rarely set up radars. My biggest concern on this stretch of 66 is unmarked cars, or traveling marked cars. I have two "warning flashes/lights" from unmarked cars: one for speeding home; one for lanesplitting into the city. I avoid the rush hour traffic at all costs - HOV time is more busy than non-HOV time anyway. But if I get caught in that 9am or 630pm parking lot, I'll still take my chances with lanesplitting. Too little too late, but you better scan traffic all the way up to horizon looking for cherries if you plan to continue lanesplitting in the future. Witold www.witold.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 14 10:43:06 2003 Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:40:03 -0500 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Busted for lane splitting To: DC Cycles Mark asks: >Another reason to hate SUVs. I wonder what would have >happened if you had seen her before, pulled into a >lane and then exited? [Dave] That's easy, she would've played bumper cars getting out of line to pursue. Shigeru would've been long gone, and she'd still be swiping cars of innocent citizens trying to find him. They won't lift a finger when someone jumps out into traffic forcing a whole line of traffic to panic stop, they won't light up an obviously hazardous cell phone yakker weaving all over the road, or an idiot stuffing a huge honking cage into less than 20 feet of space.... BUT, if you are on a bike that can go faster than the almighty crown vic, you are a VIOLATOR, and PUBLIC ENEMY NUMBER 1 ! Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 14 10:45:45 2003 Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 07:45:31 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Busted for lane splitting To: Dave Yates , DC Cycles Actually I meant if he had seen her before passing, then exited at the next exit. --- Dave Yates wrote: > Mark asks: > >Another reason to hate SUVs. I wonder what would > have > >happened if you had seen her before, pulled into a > >lane and then exited? > > [Dave] That's easy, she would've played bumper cars > getting > out of line to pursue. Shigeru would've been long > gone, and > she'd still be swiping cars of innocent citizens > trying to > find him. They won't lift a finger when someone > jumps out > into traffic forcing a whole line of traffic to > panic stop, > they won't light up an obviously hazardous cell > phone yakker > weaving all over the road, or an idiot stuffing a > huge > honking cage into less than 20 feet of space.... > BUT, if you > are on a bike that can go faster than the almighty > crown vic, > you are a VIOLATOR, and PUBLIC ENEMY NUMBER 1 ! > > > > > Dave Yates > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 14 10:51:04 2003 Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 07:51:02 -0800 (PST) From: Sean Steele Subject: RE: Busted for lane splitting To: dc-cycles I got myself the mandatory "over 80mph" reckless driving ticket last month in Shenandoah Co., VA that goes to trial on 11/25. I was radared doing 81 in a 65 on I-81N. In a rental car I drove all the way from Dallas to DC in a 30-hour marathon, no less... I'm going through a local attorney who "knows" the prosecutor(s) down there. In Woodstock and surrounding environs, knowing one of the locals is your best bet. Doesn't really matter in NoVA, though. -Sean --- Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Wilson [mailto:pawilson@XXXXXX] > > FWIW, did anyone else see the big speeding dragnet > the state > > cops had set up > > on the Dulles/66 access road last Friday? It was > near the > > 123 exit, where > > the Dulles-only lanes split off. Must have had a > dozen state cops and > > cruisers and an equal number of cars pulled over > getting written up. > > It appears that yesterday was enforcement day. I > saw a cop monitoring traffic on 66W, right past 495N > exit. I make my 66 commute into the city every day > - starting in Falls Church - and there are almost NO > cops there EVER. Heading east, I have only seen > cops radaring once, and that was during that > week-long enforcement bust during the summer. > Heading west - upto 495 - there are only two spots > where they very rarely set up radars. > > My biggest concern on this stretch of 66 is unmarked > cars, or traveling marked cars. I have two "warning > flashes/lights" from unmarked cars: one for speeding > home; one for lanesplitting into the city. I avoid > the rush hour traffic at all costs - HOV time is > more busy than non-HOV time anyway. But if I get > caught in that 9am or 630pm parking lot, I'll still > take my chances with lanesplitting. > > Too little too late, but you better scan traffic all > the way up to horizon looking for cherries if you > plan to continue lanesplitting in the future. > > Witold > www.witold.org > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 14 11:06:47 2003 Reply-To: "Jon Strang" From: "Jon Strang" To: Subject: Re: Busted for lane splitting (details) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:06:24 -0500 So driving on the sidewalk is three points for three years, and lane splitting is six points for eleven years. I think I've found my new hooligan hobby! --jon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Troutman" To: "dc-cycles" Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 10:09 AM Subject: Re: Busted for lane splitting (details) > This is a good site to get background on reckless. > > http://vatrafficlaw.com/reckless.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 14 11:10:14 2003 Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:09:13 -0500 To: "Bruce N" , "dc-cycles" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Busted for lane splitting At 10:21 AM 11/14/03 -0500, Bruce N wrote: >Not sure if this is still the case but in the past the 6 demerit points for >reckless driving in VA It's been a couple of decades since I lived in VA, but I remember that reckless driving was a 16 point infraction, with an option to suspend license for 1 year on a first offense (judge's option), and a mandatory suspension on a second offense. Large fines would accompany it too. There's *always* an option for jail time for traffic offenses if the judge decides to. I watched a guy who was brought in for doing 40 in a 25 zone on his bike get a "$30 or 10 days" sentence back when my dad took me to traffic court to see how it went before I got my license. He didn't have the $30 on him, so off he went to jail. >Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Me too...except that last part...I was there for that. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 14 11:57:56 2003 From: "Shigeru Honda" To: "dc-cycles" Subject: Re: Busted for lane splitting (details) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:51:12 -0500 Thank you all for the advice, I just made an appointment for next week with a lawyer below; Bose Law Firm, PLLC McLean, VA 22102 Telephone: 703/981-7726 Fax: 703/940-1260 Email: bose@XXXXXX Web Site: www.vatrafficlaw.com Anyone had any experience with this lawyer? according to the web site, the fee will be $850 with a discount rate ($1200 w/o discount). ouch! but that's better than spending time in jail, I guess. bad things keep happening to me with my new MZ Skorpion. I get parking tickets with this bike and the other day it stopped running on Dulles toll road. It turned out to be water in the carb. --------------------- Shigeru Honda 98 SuperHawk (Street) 99 750 SS (Track #881) 02 MZ Skorpion Tour (New Toy) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Troutman" To: "dc-cycles" Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 10:09 AM Subject: Re: Busted for lane splitting (details) > This is a good site to get background on reckless. > > http://vatrafficlaw.com/reckless.html > > Apparently the courts are handing down bigger fines and suspensions more > often due to political pressure. If I were you, I would somehow push the > issue that you were not lane splitting intentionally. You were forced into > it by aggressive drivers, high winds, and star alignment. > > Again, more details would help. > > > > ___________________________________________ > Mike Troutman > http://www.troutman.org/vfr > 1997 Honda VFR 750 > AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ > NMA http://www.motorists.org > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 14 12:11:08 2003 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Busted for lane splitting Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:10:59 -0500 I believ in CA you can lane split 15 mph faster than traffic up to 35 mph. >From: "William J. Huson" >To: Shigeru Honda >CC: dc-cycles >Subject: Re: Busted for lane splitting >Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:06:25 -0500 > >Reckless - Yeeouch! Could be the LEO was in a foul mood, or could be you >exceeded the safe limit of a lane split. Methinks the allowed lane split >in CA >is not more than 15 MPH and only when traffic is stopped or close to >stopped. >If traffic was cruising along at 30 or so and you were honking on betwixt >the >lanes, reckless makes sense. _________________________________________________________________ Compare high-speed Internet plans, starting at $26.95. https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 14 12:20:48 2003 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Busted for lane splitting Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:09:33 -0500 Woodstock area is known to prey on all the college kids shooting down 81 to school. 123 towards Tysons off of toll/road coming from the city, expect 3 troopers every afternoon doing HOV. Lane splitting, scan like crazy! Look out for any large American sedan w/ only 1 guy durring HOV. I've gotten "boop"ed from a Cherokee and something else in my 2 yrs + riding into the city. >From: Sean Steele >To: dc-cycles >Subject: RE: Busted for lane splitting >Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 07:51:02 -0800 (PST) > >I got myself the mandatory "over 80mph" reckless >driving ticket last month in Shenandoah Co., VA that >goes to trial on 11/25. I was radared doing 81 in a 65 >on I-81N. In a rental car I drove all the way from >Dallas to DC in a 30-hour marathon, no less... > >I'm going through a local attorney who "knows" the >prosecutor(s) down there. In Woodstock and surrounding >environs, knowing one of the locals is your best bet. > >Doesn't really matter in NoVA, though. > >-Sean > >--- Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services > wrote: > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Paul Wilson [mailto:pawilson@XXXXXX] > > > FWIW, did anyone else see the big speeding dragnet > > the state > > > cops had set up > > > on the Dulles/66 access road last Friday? It was > > near the > > > 123 exit, where > > > the Dulles-only lanes split off. Must have had a > > dozen state cops and > > > cruisers and an equal number of cars pulled over > > getting written up. > > > > It appears that yesterday was enforcement day. I > > saw a cop monitoring traffic on 66W, right past 495N > > exit. I make my 66 commute into the city every day > > - starting in Falls Church - and there are almost NO > > cops there EVER. Heading east, I have only seen > > cops radaring once, and that was during that > > week-long enforcement bust during the summer. > > Heading west - upto 495 - there are only two spots > > where they very rarely set up radars. > > > > My biggest concern on this stretch of 66 is unmarked > > cars, or traveling marked cars. I have two "warning > > flashes/lights" from unmarked cars: one for speeding > > home; one for lanesplitting into the city. I avoid > > the rush hour traffic at all costs - HOV time is > > more busy than non-HOV time anyway. But if I get > > caught in that 9am or 630pm parking lot, I'll still > > take my chances with lanesplitting. > > > > Too little too late, but you better scan traffic all > > the way up to horizon looking for cherries if you > > plan to continue lanesplitting in the future. _________________________________________________________________ Great deals on high-speed Internet access as low as $26.95. https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 14 13:16:09 2003 Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:16:04 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Weaver Subject: Re: Busted for lane splitting To: dc-cycles I saw it and rode through carefully. BUT, I don't think it was for speeding. I'm pretty sure it was HOV enforcement. It's really a perfect place to do it, as all cars except the Dulles-bound have to go through there. Kinda dangerous though - all those cops wandering all over the shoulders, some walking into the roadway, etc. All the cars I saw pulled over only had one occupant in each. Cops often sit at the entrance and exit ramps of 66 inside the beltway. Where I get on (at Rosslyn), there's a cop sitting there about 3 out of 5 days of every week. He still seems to always have someone pulled over. Not to hijack the thread, but HOV violations are way outta control - they need to hand out points for those things on the first offense. Chris Weaver --- Paul Wilson wrote: > FWIW, did anyone else see the big speeding dragnet > the state cops had set up > on the Dulles/66 access road last Friday? It was > near the 123 exit, where > the Dulles-only lanes split off. Must have had a > dozen state cops and > cruisers and an equal number of cars pulled over > getting written up. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 14 13:26:54 2003 Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:26:49 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Busted for lane splitting To: DC Cycles How do they know you are not going to dulles?? --- Chris Weaver wrote: > I saw it and rode through carefully. > > BUT, I don't think it was for speeding. I'm pretty > sure it was HOV enforcement. It's really a perfect > place to do it, as all cars except the Dulles-bound > have to go through there. Kinda dangerous though - > all > those cops wandering all over the shoulders, some > walking into the roadway, etc. All the cars I saw > pulled over only had one occupant in each. > > Cops often sit at the entrance and exit ramps of 66 > inside the beltway. Where I get on (at Rosslyn), > there's a cop sitting there about 3 out of 5 days of > every week. He still seems to always have someone > pulled over. Not to hijack the thread, but HOV > violations are way outta control - they need to hand > out points for those things on the first offense. > > Chris Weaver > > --- Paul Wilson wrote: > > FWIW, did anyone else see the big speeding dragnet > > the state cops had set up > > on the Dulles/66 access road last Friday? It was > > near the 123 exit, where > > the Dulles-only lanes split off. Must have had a > > dozen state cops and > > cruisers and an equal number of cars pulled over > > getting written up. > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 14 13:39:10 2003 Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:39:08 -0800 (PST) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: Busted for lane splitting To: Mark Kitchell , DC Cycles Simple, if you split right then you were not going to Dulles. In other words, if you are violating HOV and the cops are there, have a fun ride to the airport, or get a ticket! Glenn --- Mark Kitchell wrote: > How do they know you are not going to dulles?? > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 14 13:50:01 2003 From: Han Park To: dc-cycles Subject: RE: Busted for lane splitting Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:50:05 -0500 > pulled over. Not to hijack the thread, but HOV > violations are way outta control - they need to hand Amen to the HOV violations. I don't know about points, but they just need to enforce it more. Shigeru, that sucks. I was pulled over for lane splitting in stopped traffic right before the Roosevelt Bridge going into DC. Statie was cool and said he didn't really see me doing it and to stop doing it. I came up on the patrol car just as you did and tried to blend in, but it was too late. In any case get a lawyer, I have used Charles Samuels in Fairfax for a traffic case and I thought he was good. A little arrogant, but he knew his stuff so if you don't need to be molly-coddled I'd go with him. han From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 14 13:54:22 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Chris Weaver" , "dc-cycles" Subject: Re: Busted for lane splitting Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:27:30 -0500 OK, maybe so, HOV enforcement would make sense. Anyway, it would be a good time to have all the incoming flight numbers at Dulles committed to memory. :) "Yeah, ossifer, just on my way to pick up Aunt Sally on UAL 86 and I musta missed the turn off for the airport lanes." Paul in DC, who sees a lot of HOV violators on 66 too. There can't be *that* many airport users driving solo. 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Weaver" > I saw it and rode through carefully. > > BUT, I don't think it was for speeding. I'm pretty > sure it was HOV enforcement. It's really a perfect > place to do it, as all cars except the Dulles-bound > have to go through there. Kinda dangerous though - all > those cops wandering all over the shoulders, some > walking into the roadway, etc. All the cars I saw > pulled over only had one occupant in each. > > Cops often sit at the entrance and exit ramps of 66 > inside the beltway. Where I get on (at Rosslyn), > there's a cop sitting there about 3 out of 5 days of > every week. He still seems to always have someone > pulled over. Not to hijack the thread, but HOV > violations are way outta control - they need to hand > out points for those things on the first offense. > > Chris Weaver From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 14 14:08:42 2003 From: "Julian Halton" To: "dc-cycles" Subject: Windy City Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:09:42 -0500 Any tips on dealing with wind? Am afraid to park outside after seeing three knocked over bikes yesterday. On the highway should you go slow, speed up, get in a tuck? Any advice? I pulled an involuntary lane change yesterday. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 14 14:18:47 2003 From: "Julian Halton" To: "dc-cycles" Subject: 1 More thing Gloves Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:19:48 -0500 The absolute best, warmest gloves in existence that still allow you to feel the throttle- any suggestions? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 14 14:22:59 2003 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Busted for HOV Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:22:48 -0500 Given the large #'s of violaters you're odds are pretty good they're not going to Dulles. HOV violation is far worse in the evening and I blame the Dulles excuse. I don't think the LEO's care about making you late for a flight either. The Toll Road has more partol on the airport traffic part. No, I'm not talking about the guy that sits at Hunter Mill protecting the bus gates. They thought about raising the speed limit going to the airport to 65, but decided since it was only like 12 miles that it wasn't worth it. >From: Mark Kitchell >To: DC Cycles >Subject: Re: Busted for lane splitting >Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:26:49 -0800 (PST) > >How do they know you are not going to dulles?? > > >--- Chris Weaver wrote: > > I saw it and rode through carefully. > > > > BUT, I don't think it was for speeding. I'm pretty > > sure it was HOV enforcement. It's really a perfect > > place to do it, as all cars except the Dulles-bound > > have to go through there. Kinda dangerous though - > > all > > those cops wandering all over the shoulders, some > > walking into the roadway, etc. All the cars I saw > > pulled over only had one occupant in each. > > > > Cops often sit at the entrance and exit ramps of 66 > > inside the beltway. Where I get on (at Rosslyn), > > there's a cop sitting there about 3 out of 5 days of > > every week. He still seems to always have someone > > pulled over. Not to hijack the thread, but HOV > > violations are way outta control - they need to hand > > out points for those things on the first offense. > > > > Chris Weaver > > > > --- Paul Wilson wrote: > > > FWIW, did anyone else see the big speeding dragnet > > > the state cops had set up > > > on the Dulles/66 access road last Friday? It was > > > near the 123 exit, where > > > the Dulles-only lanes split off. Must have had a > > > dozen state cops and > > > cruisers and an equal number of cars pulled over > > > getting written up. > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > > http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard >http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree > _________________________________________________________________ Compare high-speed Internet plans, starting at $26.95. https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 14 14:23:05 2003 Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:23:03 -0800 (PST) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Windy City On Fri, 14 Nov 2003, Julian Halton wrote: > Any tips on dealing with wind? I've found that tucking in racer-style helps, at least when you're beating or reaching -- keeps your frontal cross-section down. It also helps to slow down somewhat; you'll still get pushed around, but not to the same extent. Stay loose on the controls, as well -- I often find myself tensing up and cursing, which means I tend to swerve more radically when I get buffeted about. Stay loose! Also, be doubly certain you stay away from cars and trucks, especially in the adjacent lanes. Watch out when trucks first pass you (or vice versa), they often have even more interesting wind eddies than you'll normally find. And one tip that is _sometimes_ useful is to watch any leaves or other light debris which may be blowing about the highway -- they'll often give you an idea when a particularly nasty crosswind or eddy is coming up. Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 14 14:29:36 2003 Subject: RE: Windy City Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:29:29 -0500 From: "Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services" To: "Julian Halton" , "dc-cycles" The faster you go, the less you feel the wind. The more tucked in you are, the less you feel the wind. I don't really feel the wind at all when I'm going 70+ and tucked in a bit. The turns are just a little bit wavey, but it doesn't matter since highway leans are far from canyon carving leans. I've never been even close to being blown into another lane. On sportbikes, it's no problem at all. As for parking, just try to have a good kickstand angle going... Park on a slanted road if necessary. Rock the bike and see how much force it would take you to tip it over. My R6 survived last night, with the cover still on, no less. (tied around rearsets) The previous night _and_ day, I lost the cover completely both times because I didn't loop it around the rearsets enough. Thankfully, my neighbors and coworkers saved my cover each time. My bike did tip over last oct/nov, during a period of high winds. I never got a chance to make sure it's standing perfectly on the kickstand, because I was out of the country that month. The bike tipped over 1 or 2 days before I came back to DC so thankfully it wasn't just laying there for long. Witold www.witold.org > -----Original Message----- > From: Julian Halton [mailto:julian@XXXXXX] > Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 2:10 PM > To: dc-cycles > Subject: Windy City > > > Any tips on dealing with wind? Am afraid to park outside > after seeing three > knocked over bikes yesterday. On the highway should you go > slow, speed up, > get in a tuck? Any advice? I pulled an involuntary lane > change yesterday. > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 14 14:31:16 2003 Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:31:15 -0800 (PST) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: 1 More thing Gloves On Fri, 14 Nov 2003, Julian Halton wrote: > The absolute best, warmest gloves in existence that still allow you to > feel the throttle- any suggestions? Electric gloves, or electrically-heated grips. Failing that, I've been relatively content with my Tour Master Polar-Tex glove, which costs $45 at New Enough: http://www.newenough.com/boots_gloves/tour_master_winter_gloves.htm My hands still get somewhat chilled after half an hour or so, but they're good for that long. They feel _really_ bulky at first, but then either the insulation gets beaten down a bit, or else you just get used to them. I've lost a bit of control feel, but not enough to really be a problem. Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 14 14:33:41 2003 From: Sunil Doshi Subject: Re: Windy City Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:33:38 -0500 To: DC Cycles After last night's ride home, I'm not sure I'll ever knowingly go out in 30+ MPH winds! I can suck it up and take the Metro. On Nov 14, 2003, at 2:09 PM, Julian Halton wrote: > Any tips on dealing with wind? Am afraid to park outside after seeing > three > knocked over bikes yesterday. On the highway should you go slow, > speed up, > get in a tuck? Any advice? I pulled an involuntary lane change > yesterday. > > > sunil http://widepipe.org/ride/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 14 14:41:33 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: "Julian Halton" , "dc-cycles" Subject: Re: 1 More thing Gloves Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:41:26 -0500 > From: "Julian Halton" > > The absolute best, warmest gloves in existence that still allow you to feel > the throttle- any suggestions? Gerbing's heated gloves. Not as much feel as summer gloves, but far better than any winter ones I've tried: http://www.gerbing.com Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" '92 ST1100, "red STag" '02 919, "still looking for a name" A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers.... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 14 14:42:52 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Fish Flowers" , "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: Windy City Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:42:01 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fish Flowers" > On Fri, 14 Nov 2003, Julian Halton wrote: > > > Any tips on dealing with wind? > > I've found that tucking in racer-style helps, at least when you're beating > or reaching -- keeps your frontal cross-section down. > > It also helps to slow down somewhat; you'll still get pushed around, but > not to the same extent. > > Stay loose on the controls, as well -- I often find myself tensing up and > cursing, which means I tend to swerve more radically when I get buffeted > about. Stay loose! > Yup, what Fish said, stay loose on the bars and present a smaller "sail" to the wind. Staying loose is good advice all the time actually. Here's more: stay in the center of the lane. A good gust will blow you a couple inches to the right or left and it's not end of the world if you have plenty of space cushion. Wind makes the bike lean, and, therefore, turn, so you'll need counter-acting handgrip inputs to keep on the straight and narrow. Stay loose, but be really to press the handgrips to counteract the wind. Tightening on the bars does not good, because you need to be loose to react quickly. As for slowing down, I'm not so sure. More subtle minds than mine can analyze the physics involved, but the only advantage of slowing down I can think of right now (I feel a post-prandial snooze coming on) is that less speed means you'll go off course less when a big wind blast hits you. Have at it kids: does more speed (spinning up those big gyros) mean more stability in crosswinds? Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 14 14:45:10 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: Mark Kitchell , DC Cycles Subject: Re: Re: Busted for lane splitting Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:45:01 -0500 > > From: Mark Kitchell > > How do they know you are not going to dulles?? > In theory, they're "pretty good at asking the right questions." (Direct quote from a State Police spokesman) For a while, though, I was going to Dulles on business once every week or two, and did it by car maybe half a dozen times. I didn't get stopped once. Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" '92 ST1100, "red STag" '02 919, "still looking for a name" A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers.... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 14 14:47:05 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: Han Park , dc-cycles Subject: Re: RE: Busted for lane splitting Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:46:57 -0500 > > From: Han Park > > pulled over. Not to hijack the thread, but HOV > > violations are way outta control - they need to hand > > Amen to the HOV violations. I don't know about points, but they just need > to enforce it more. The problem is that the fines are so small that to many people getting caught once a month is just a cost of doing business. Make it $500 + points for a first violation, $1000 + points for a second, and $2000 for a third, and maybe people will think twice. Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" '92 ST1100, "red STag" '02 919, "still looking for a name" A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers.... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 14 14:48:44 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX, "Julian Halton" , "dc-cycles" Subject: Re: Re: 1 More thing Gloves Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:48:38 -0500 > > From: Bob Meyer > Date: 2003/11/14 Fri PM 02:41:26 EST > To: "Julian Halton" , > "dc-cycles" > Subject: Re: 1 More thing Gloves > > > From: "Julian Halton" > > > > > The absolute best, warmest gloves in existence that still allow you to feel > > the throttle- any suggestions? > > Gerbing's heated gloves. Not as much feel as summer gloves, but far better than any winter ones I've tried: > > http://www.gerbing.com > And combining these with heated grips or grip heaters (my favorite are Dual Star grip heaters under whatever grips you favor) are the ultimate solution. > Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 > '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" > '92 ST1100, "red STag" > '02 919, "still looking for a name" > > A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers.... > > Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" '92 ST1100, "red STag" '02 919, "still looking for a name" A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers.... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 14 15:04:51 2003 Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:04:48 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Weaver Subject: Re: Windy City To: DC-Cycles In my experience yesterday evening, I agree with Fish (I think that's who said it) that the faster you go, the less the crosswinds affect you. I was okay on the highway - didn't get blown around TOO much. When I got on local roads, I got blown around my lane more. Maybe it's because those gusts have less time to push on you because you're in and out of the gust more quickly when you're going faster? Cheers, Chris --- Paul Wilson wrote: > Have > at it kids: does more speed (spinning up those big > gyros) mean more > stability in crosswinds? > > Paul in DC > 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 14 15:14:21 2003 From: "Shigeru Honda" To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: Windy City + lane splitting Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:07:42 -0500 With the strong wind blast of Nov 13, 2003 I had to keep the speed (lane split) to prevent my bike from tipping over in the middle of the highway!!! Would this be a good excuse? --------------------- Shigeru Honda 98 SuperHawk (Street) 99 750 SS (Track #881) 02 MZ Skorpion Tour (New Toy) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Weaver" To: "DC-Cycles" Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 3:04 PM Subject: Re: Windy City > In my experience yesterday evening, I agree with Fish > (I think that's who said it) that the faster you go, > the less the crosswinds affect you. I was okay on the > highway - didn't get blown around TOO much. When I got > on local roads, I got blown around my lane more. > > Maybe it's because those gusts have less time to push > on you because you're in and out of the gust more > quickly when you're going faster? > > Cheers, > Chris > > --- Paul Wilson wrote: > > Have > > at it kids: does more speed (spinning up those big > > gyros) mean more > > stability in crosswinds? > > > > Paul in DC > > 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 14 15:18:59 2003 Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:18:55 -0500 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Officially Hijacked HOV thread that was...Busted for lane splitting To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >> Amen to the HOV violations. I don't know about points, >>but they just need to enforce it more. [Dave] You call them 'violators', I call them traffic freedom fighters ! They're just practicing peaceful civil disobedience of DA MAN ! > >The problem is that the fines are so small that to many people getting caught once a month is just a cost of doing business. Make it $500 + points for a first violation, $1000 + points for a second, and $2000 for a third, and maybe people will think twice. [Dave] The real problem is lanes we all paid for through taxes being restricted to carpoolers and other selected "classes" of vehicle operators. Proud to be HOV Negative ! Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 14 15:30:33 2003 Subject: SPAM: Leathers for sale (2 sets) From: Brian Roach To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 14 Nov 2003 15:30:23 -0500 AGV one-piece racing suit - Barely used. These were my first set of leathers, bought hastily so I could take the race school the following weekend. A couple small scuffs, but I never crashed in them. They're size 48 (euro), which would fit anyone up to about 5'9" well. I'm 5'11" and they were a bit too short in the torso. Standing up straight without singing soprano was a problem. They are ventilated. Price is $200 + actual cost of UPS shipping from Dover, DE (if you need them shipped). Can be picked up either in Dover, DE or Centreville, VA (just west of D.C.). http://lauraandbrian.com:60/~roach/leathers/AGV_front.jpg http://lauraandbrian.com:60/~roach/leathers/AGV_back.jpg Second Set ... Er ... cheap leathers :) Dianese 2-piece size 48 (euro). Laura used these to take her race School (they were a bit big on her). They're old, a little beat up, but still sound - no holes or damage. Fits up to prob about 5'8" or 5'9". Wouldn't make a bad set of street leathers if you cleaned them up a bit. $50 + actual cost of UPS shipping from Dover, DE. Can be picked up in Centreville, VA (just west of D.C.) or Dover, DE. http://lauraandbrian.com:60/~roach/leathers/dainese_front.jpg http://lauraandbrian.com:60/~roach/leathers/dainese_back.jpg - Roach From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 14 15:50:57 2003 Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:51:19 -0600 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Sean Jordan Subject: Re: Windy City Weaver wrote: >In my experience yesterday evening, I agree with Fish >(I think that's who said it) that the faster you go, >the less the crosswinds affect you. I was okay on the >highway - didn't get blown around TOO much. When I got >on local roads, I got blown around my lane more. > >Maybe it's because those gusts have less time to push >on you because you're in and out of the gust more >quickly when you're going faster? Your wheels are gyroscopes. The faster you go the more the bike resists turning. Maybe not entirely responsible, but has to play a significant role. - Sean Jordan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 14 16:06:15 2003 Subject: SPAM: (sorry ... one more) Challenger cold weather jacket From: Brian Roach To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 14 Nov 2003 16:06:07 -0500 MotoLine Challenger jacket XXL I know ... XXL .. don't ask. It IS warm though! Excellent condition. Textile jacket with light armor in the elbows, shoulders, and back. VERY warm in the winter, multiple zippers and wind flaps keep cold air out. Zip-out liner makes it useful for summer rain-riding. Lots of pockets. $75 + actual cost of shipping from Dover, DE. Can be picked up in Dover, DE or Centreville, VA. http://lauraandbrian.com:60/~roach/leathers/challenger_front.jpg http://lauraandbrian.com:60/~roach/leathers/challenger_back.jpg - Roach From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 14 16:23:03 2003 From: "stephen" To: Subject: VA-HOV/MC question Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:21:30 -0500 I know that HOV lanes in MD are okay for motorcycles which are inherently deemed HOV. Are motorcycles targetted for taxation in the VA HOV lanes? Stephen From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 14 16:37:46 2003 Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:37:56 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Erick Singley Subject: Fwd: Re: VA-HOV/MC question >I know that HOV lanes in MD are okay for motorcycles which are >inherently deemed HOV. >Are motorcycles targetted for taxation in the VA HOV lanes? >Stephen http://www.ama-cycle.org/legisltn/100yrs/fastlane.asp ... So despite a congressional directive ordering states to allow motorcycles on HOV lanes, many remained closed to riders, including some in California, Pennsylvania, Texas and Virginia. Undaunted, the AMA continued to plug away at the issue, with then-AMA Legislative Affairs Specialist Jim Bensberg testifying at a Virginia Department of Transportation subregional planning meeting in 1988. "If the purpose of HOV lanes is to ease traffic and inner-city parking problems, state officials should encourage, rather than discourage, the use of space-efficient motorcycles," Bensberg said. Also testifying were ABATE of Virginia and the BMW Bikers of Metropolitan Washington. By late 1991, California had passed a law allowing motorcycles to use all its HOV lanes. And the next year, the AMA was once again on Capitol Hill in an effort to close the loophole in the federal law that allowed states to declare motorcycles a safety hazard, thus keeping them out of HOV lanes. We also continued discussions with Virginia officials. Finally, the effort paid off. That year, Congress did close the loophole, and the remaining states that barred bikes from some HOV lanes-Pennsylvania, Texas and Virginia-relented, allowing bikes in all of their carpool lanes. So the next time you see an HOV Lane sign that says "Motorcycles OK," you can thank the AMA as you cruise by all that slow-moving traffic. Erick 74'CB-750 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 14 16:37:49 2003 From: Han Park To: dc-cycles Subject: RE: Busted for lane splitting Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:37:55 -0500 I was scanning vigilantly when I was pulled over lane splitting and saw him from 4 or 5 cars back, but by that time he had already seen me. I don't think you can scan well enough to ensure that you see every police vehicle especially the unmarked ones. Maybe your scanning is better than mine though. In any case, I really limit my filtering in Va after that incident. han > -----Original Message----- > From: Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services > [mailto:Witold@XXXXXX] > Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 10:38 AM > To: Paul Wilson; Mark Kitchell; dc-cycles > Subject: RE: Busted for lane splitting > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Wilson [mailto:pawilson@XXXXXX] > > FWIW, did anyone else see the big speeding dragnet the state > > cops had set up > > on the Dulles/66 access road last Friday? It was near the > > 123 exit, where > > the Dulles-only lanes split off. Must have had a dozen > state cops and > > cruisers and an equal number of cars pulled over getting written up. > > It appears that yesterday was enforcement day. I saw a cop > monitoring traffic on 66W, right past 495N exit. I make my > 66 commute into the city every day - starting in Falls Church > - and there are almost NO cops there EVER. Heading east, I > have only seen cops radaring once, and that was during that > week-long enforcement bust during the summer. Heading west - > upto 495 - there are only two spots where they very rarely > set up radars. > > My biggest concern on this stretch of 66 is unmarked cars, or > traveling marked cars. I have two "warning flashes/lights" > from unmarked cars: one for speeding home; one for > lanesplitting into the city. I avoid the rush hour traffic > at all costs - HOV time is more busy than non-HOV time > anyway. But if I get caught in that 9am or 630pm parking > lot, I'll still take my chances with lanesplitting. > > Too little too late, but you better scan traffic all the way > up to horizon looking for cherries if you plan to continue > lanesplitting in the future. > > Witold > www.witold.org > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 14 17:35:11 2003 Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 17:34:59 -0500 To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX, Han Park , dc-cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: RE: Busted for lane splitting At 02:46 PM 11/14/03 -0500, Bob Meyer wrote: > >> >> From: Han Park >> > pulled over. Not to hijack the thread, but HOV >> > violations are way outta control - they need to hand >> >> Amen to the HOV violations. I don't know about points, but they just need >> to enforce it more. > >The problem is that the fines are so small that to many people getting caught once a month is just a cost of doing business. Make it $500 + points for a first violation, $1000 + points for a second, and $2000 for a third, and maybe people will think twice. Very likely. Should they do the same for *other* lawbreakers? Like speeders, lane splitters, those with overly loud pipes, etc.? :^) -- Mike "one man's Mede is another man's Persian" Bartman -- **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 14 21:21:13 2003 Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 18:21:03 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: AMA's Jim Bensberg, was: VA-HOV/MC question To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Erick Singley wrote: > Undaunted, the AMA continued to plug away at the issue, > with then-AMA > Legislative Affairs Specialist Jim Bensberg testifying at a > Virginia > Department of Transportation subregional planning meeting > in 1988. Yo, my old friend Jim Bensberg! For anyone who knew Jim when he was here in DC, he went back to Colorado and became the PR guy for the Pikes Peak Hill Climb for a few years (free tickets = good thing!), and is now an elected County Commissioner of El Paso County, Colorado (Colorado Springs) and doing great. We see him two or three times a year. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 14 22:49:11 2003 Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 22:49:35 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Bruce Brownlee Subject: Re: dc-cycles digest for 11/14/03 At 07:00 PM 11/14/2003 -0500, you wrote: >I was scanning vigilantly when I was pulled over lane splitting if thats the case, along with all the advice to watch for cops when lane splitting, i would guess the arguement over whether it is legal or not is over.... hint #1, if you are worried about the cops, its a good chance you REALIZE what you are doing is illegal. re. using the defense that a gust of wind caught you, would not "failure to maintain control" fall somewhere in the 'reckless' arena. be a man and take the punishment. lanesplitters obviously know its illegal or they wouldnt be so worried about getting caught. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Nov 15 08:51:38 2003 Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 08:50:03 -0500 To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX, Han Park , dc-cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Want fewer wheels on the road? http://www.forbes.com/lifestyle/2003/11/04/cx_dl_1104vow.html Canada's answer to the Segway... -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Nov 15 09:15:30 2003 Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 06:15:07 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Want fewer wheels on the road? To: Mike Bartman , dc-cycles reckless driving per se in virginia. perhaps shigeru needs one of these.... --- Mike Bartman wrote: > > http://www.forbes.com/lifestyle/2003/11/04/cx_dl_1104vow.html > > Canada's answer to the Segway... ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Nov 15 10:57:26 2003 Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 10:57:14 -0500 To: Mike Bartman , rmeyer9@XXXXXX, Han Park , dc-cycles From: Aki Damme Subject: Re: Want fewer wheels on the road? I donno, maybe it's just me, but I think it looks majorly cool. -aki At 08:50 AM 11/15/2003, Mike Bartman wrote: > http://www.forbes.com/lifestyle/2003/11/04/cx_dl_1104vow.html > >Canada's answer to the Segway... > >-- Mike B. > >**************************************************************************** >* Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation >Obliterated * >* Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions >Offered * >* omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles >Stimulated * >*--------------------------------------------------------------------------* >* "We do it all! No job too small! No price too >high! * >**************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Nov 15 13:36:49 2003 From: "LindaT." To: "Dc-Cycles \(Dc-Cycles\)" Subject: RE: dc-cycles digest for 11/14/03 Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 13:35:13 -0500 I'm all for personal responsibility, but I think the point here is not whether or not he's guilty, but whether or not the law is 'just'. Fighting unjust laws is one of bases of our country. Doesn't it seem just a teeny bit arbitrary, that something that wouldn't merit a glance in the rest of the world (outside US) and CA (inside US), is deemed "RECKLESS" here and will hang around on your record as long as killing someone via vehicle? LindaT. http://www.customtankbags.com Now - TankBags for 1800 Wings Springfield, VA (suburb of our nation's capital) AMA IBA HSTA BMWBMW 99 R1100RT Mr. Buzzy 95 F3 Purple Haze 00 KLR250 Super Sherpa Tenzing Bruce Brownlee said: if thats the case, along with all the advice to watch for cops when lane splitting, i would guess the arguement over whether it is legal or not is over.... hint #1, if you are worried about the cops, its a good chance you REALIZE what you are doing is illegal. re. using the defense that a gust of wind caught you, would not "failure to maintain control" fall somewhere in the 'reckless' arena. be a man and take the punishment. lanesplitters obviously know its illegal or they wouldnt be so worried about getting caught. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Nov 15 14:24:44 2003 Subject: RE: dc-cycles digest for 11/14/03 From: Brian Roach To: "LindaT." Cc: "Dc-Cycles (Dc-Cycles)" Date: 15 Nov 2003 14:24:34 -0500 On Sat, 2003-11-15 at 13:35, LindaT. wrote: > I'm all for personal responsibility, but I think the point here is not > whether or not he's guilty, but whether or not the law is 'just'. Fighting > unjust laws is one of bases of our country. > > Doesn't it seem just a teeny bit arbitrary, that something that wouldn't > merit a glance in the rest of the world (outside US) and CA (inside US), is > deemed "RECKLESS" here and will hang around on your record as long as > killing someone via vehicle? Linda - I agree with you in regard to the severity of the penalty. This is the status quo in VA - 90% of what VA calls "reckless" on the books is everyday driving on the beltway (the 20mph over clause, as an example). Add to that the fact that it seems to be selectively applied depending on whether the officer in question got his/her morning donut or not, and it really sucks. However ... breaking a law you personally feel is wrong then crying foul when you get caught is generally not the way to go about fighting an unjust law. You tend to not have much credibility with many people at that point. Everyone here knows lane splitting is against the law in this area. Anyone who wanted to double-check only needs to pull up the code of VA online. Same goes for all of the other things VA deems "reckless". Most of us hate a lot of the crap that's in the traffic laws ... but we choose to just abide by or break them (and possibly face the consequences) instead of doing anything about them. I'm just as guilty as the next guy, don't get me wrong - I don't have an interest in getting involved in the process that could lead to getting the laws changed. At the same time ... that gives me little room to complain should I get nailed for doing something I know is illegal, no matter how I feel about the justness of it. I'd still argue and wiggle as much as the next guy in court ... but in the end, I'm responsible for my actions, and my choices. - Roach From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Nov 15 17:25:03 2003 Reply-To: "Brian Ray" From: "Brian Ray" To: Subject: Shit-eating Grin Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 17:25:04 -0500 Ok, so I have one. Since I'd shared the process of figuring out what type of bike (Bandit 1200s) and where to buy (Champion Motorsports in Herndon), I thought I'd share the thrill of the first ride. Woohoo! I picked the bike up Thursday, trailered it home, then stared at it for a while. Put a set of case guards on it last night. Had to fix my truck this morning, so the ride had to wait 'till this afternoon. Well worth the wait. Put about 100 miles on it. PW Co. area, between Manassas & Quantico. Kept the rpm's low (break-in period), so I only got a glimpse. Damn, that's fun. Damn, I'm going to have to work hard staying a responsible, non-hooligan member of society. Going back out tomorrow. Probably Fauquier Co. area, but who knows. Just had to share. Brian From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Nov 15 17:33:53 2003 Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 17:48:36 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Shit-eating Grin On Sat, 15 Nov 2003, Brian Ray wrote: > Had to fix my truck this morning, so the ride had to wait 'till this > afternoon. Well worth the wait. Put about 100 miles on it. PW Co. area, > between Manassas & Quantico. Kept the rpm's low (break-in period), so I > only got a glimpse. Damn, that's fun. Damn, I'm going to have to work hard > staying a responsible, non-hooligan member of society. > > Going back out tomorrow. Probably Fauquier Co. area, but who knows. Congrats, Brian! Be careful twisting the throttle on these cold roads. Traction is scarce. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Nov 15 17:57:00 2003 From: "Laura Roach" To: "Brian Ray" , Subject: Re: Shit-eating Grin Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 17:53:11 -0500 > Since I'd shared the process of figuring out what type of bike (Bandit > 1200s) and where to buy (Champion Motorsports in Herndon), I thought I'd > share the thrill of the first ride. Congrats on the new ride. Take it easy out there and have fun! Maybe we'll see you at a track day next year. :) Laura From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Nov 15 18:46:40 2003 Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 15:46:37 -0800 (PST) From: Aaron Subject: Lane splitting To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Shigeru, It's a shame that your new bike started overheating in the stalled traffic. First time you'd been caught in traffic like that on the new bike, right? Better to get to the next exit and pull over than stall in teh middle of 66 and add to the problem . . . __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Nov 15 19:17:45 2003 Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 19:18:01 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Bruce Brownlee Subject: Re: dc-cycles digest for 11/15/03 >However ... breaking a law you personally feel is wrong then crying foul >when you get caught is generally not the way to go about fighting an >unjust law. You tend to not have much credibility with many people at >that point. Everyone here knows lane splitting is against the law in >this area. Anyone who wanted to double-check only needs to pull up the >code of VA online. Same goes for all of the other things VA deems >"reckless". What Brian said.... My gripe is not with the lane splitters, speeders, hooligans (all of which I belong to at one point or another in a typical month). Its with the fact that people KNOW what they are doing is wrong, yet bitch when they get pinched. The way to change laws IN THIS COUNTRY is not by willfully ignoring them. Thats why society is judged by the existance of a RULE of law. I'm sure we all would see 'unjust laws' a whole different way if someone who FELT the law allowing motorcycles on HOV was wrong took it upon himself to punish those he felt were violating his idea of the law. Lane splitting on a highway (i'll provide this caveat as I still think its bad and justifiably illegal in the city) is ignorant and arrogant. The person a lanesplitter blasts past on the highway is likely to be the person I am trying to merge with 2 minutes later. If he's got a case of the ass about arrogant bikers, I wont appreciate taking the heat for someone elses actions. As the overused phrase goes, what one does gets blamed on all..... a simple question can be asked, "would a NORMAL person be outraged by my actions" whether it be loud pipes, hooliganism or whatever. my guess is, thinking the laws shouldnt apply to us would outrage someone. to us it seems fine and even makes sense. but if it pisses someone else off, the retaliation is likely to be made against someone who wasnt even the transgressor in the first place. and that aint cool in my book.... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Nov 15 19:45:19 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: Re: dc-cycles digest for 11/15/03 Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 19:44:35 -0500 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec790843718d17937d0740ceb4f5ba3fe177350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c > What Brian said.... My gripe is not with the lane splitters, speeders, > hooligans (all of which I belong to at one point or another in a typical > month). Its with the fact that people KNOW what they are doing is > wrong, yet bitch when they get pinched. [Dave] Who's bitched? IIRC, Shigeru asked for input and advice... did I not get the message in which he bitched loudly ? > The way to change laws IN THIS COUNTRY is not by willfully ignoring > them. Thats why society is judged by the existance of a RULE of law. > I'm sure we all would see 'unjust laws' a whole different way if someone > who FELT the law allowing motorcycles on HOV was wrong took it > upon himself to punish those he felt were violating his idea of the law. > > Lane splitting on a highway (i'll provide this caveat as I still think its bad > and justifiably illegal in the city) is ignorant and arrogant. The person > a lanesplitter blasts past on the highway is likely to be the person I > am trying to merge with 2 minutes later. [Dave] I agree with you in the aspect that _for me_ - I have a high threshold to cross before lane splitting begins. That said, I think that the Reckless statute is wrong headed as applied in this situation, but NOT applied to SUV piloting, non driving, cell phone yakking, coffee drinking morons who want nothing more than to do an impact test with a motorcycle. I do not begrudge a biker lane splitting through traffic, ever. > If he's got a case of the ass > about arrogant bikers, I wont appreciate taking the heat for someone > elses actions. As the overused phrase goes, what one does gets > blamed on all..... [Dave] As I predicted on the 14th, Shigeru is now being attacked for his actions. He lane split, he didn't play bumper cars, drive drunk, or try to run someone off the road. his offense was no greater than that which we all do here every day - speed. I'll agree that the act of lane splitting can be seen as arrogant. In fact, but a scant few months ago I pontificated that the same arrogance was exactly equal to "last second lane mergers" who cause me to be the 1st car stuck at the next light because I had to increase the gap for the new vehicle (lane splitter) in front of me. Ignorant however, does not apply. The law should apply equally to inattentive SUV drivers... And without even having been there I'm 90% certain that there was some other SUV piloting greater offender within eyeshot of the cop. > > a simple question can be asked, "would a NORMAL person be > outraged by my actions" whether it be loud pipes, hooliganism or > whatever. [Dave] We makes our choices, we lives with the consequences. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Nov 15 20:01:21 2003 Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 17:01:13 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Lane splitting To: Aaron , dc-cycles@XXXXXX i'm interested to hear what shigeru _said_ during the traffic stop.... you licensed to practice in virginia, aaron? seems like we get ~10 relatively serious dc-cycles va. traffic cases per year reported on this list.... --- Aaron wrote: > Shigeru, > > It's a shame that your new bike started overheating in > the stalled traffic. First time you'd been caught in > traffic like that on the new bike, right? Better to > get to the next exit and pull over than stall in teh > middle of 66 and add to the problem . . . > > ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Nov 15 21:15:45 2003 Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 21:15:22 -0500 From: Dale Horstman To: Bob Meyer CC: Sean Steele , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Expected lifetime for clutch + more Bob Meyer wrote: > I'd say it depends more on riding style and usage than anything else. I > know a few ST1100 riders with more than 100K on the original clutch. But > those are mostly highway miles, which put no wear on the clutch plates at > all. Still on the original clutch parts with my 118,000 mile Concours, BugSlayer. It's seen a good mix of commuting (back in the day before I was retired....), highway miles, gravel roads, backroads scratching.... Hork -- Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark) Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX '98 Concours - BugSlayer Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth '99 Concours - Grape Nehi CM #001 NRA IBA COG '82 GS850G - Neat old bike The Mason Dixon 20-20 Endurance Rally: The Games People Play Come join us in 2004: http://www.masondixon20-20.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 16 08:21:38 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 08:21:26 EST Subject: Throw that tea in the harbor! To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 11/15/2003 2:24:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, roach@XXXXXX writes: > However ... breaking a law you personally feel is wrong then crying foul > when you get caught is generally not the way to go about fighting an > unjust law. Gandhi, Martin Luther King, etc. would disagree. I is called "civil disobedience." And it is when applied properly is perhaps the _most_ effective way to fight unjust laws. Applicable in this instance? Perhaps not. But we do have the legal right (and some would say responsibility) to practice it. Tying up the courts fighting individual bullshit tickets is a legitimate way to fight bullshit ticketing. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 16 08:30:27 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 08:30:21 EST Subject: Re: dc-cycles digest for 11/15/03 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 11/15/2003 7:18:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, brownlee_b@XXXXXX writes: > If he's got a case of the ass > about arrogant bikers, I wont appreciate taking the heat for someone > elses actions. No one does. BUT the problem is the person with the "case of the ass" not the lane spliter. The lane spliter did not make life dangerous for you, the ass did. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 16 09:19:40 2003 Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 06:19:32 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Throw that tea in the harbor! To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX well put. if enough bikers started lane splitting around here and hiring attorneys to argue on their behalf that the [va.] reckless driving provision was being unconstitutionally applied to them, some serious progress might be made on this issue. i believe that in 20 years the congestion here will be so bad that we'll be legally splitting as they do in europe and asia. (at least in maryland and dc we will.) --- PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > In a message dated 11/15/2003 2:24:56 PM Eastern Standard > Time, > roach@XXXXXX writes: > > > However ... breaking a law you personally feel is wrong > then crying foul > > when you get caught is generally not the way to go > about fighting an > > unjust law. > > Gandhi, Martin Luther King, etc. would disagree. > I is called ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 16 09:46:34 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Tom Gimer" , , Subject: Re: Throw that tea in the harbor! Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 09:46:39 -0500 Is there a synopsis somewhere on the legislative history of California's experience with lane-sharing? What limited information I have suggests that pressure on the legislature to not ban lane-sharing came from a rather unlikely source: cops. BTW, on the few occasions I've lane-split in the District, it becomes awfully addictive. It's hard *not* to split after you've done it a few times. Paul in DC, who practices civil-disobedience once in a while. 95 VFR - 86 VF500F - users.erols.com/pawilson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Gimer" To: ; Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2003 9:19 AM Subject: Re: Throw that tea in the harbor! > well put. if enough bikers started lane splitting around > here and hiring attorneys to argue on their behalf that the > [va.] reckless driving provision was being > unconstitutionally applied to them, some serious progress > might be made on this issue. > > i believe that in 20 years the congestion here will be so > bad that we'll be legally splitting as they do in europe > and asia. (at least in maryland and dc we will.) > > > > --- PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > > In a message dated 11/15/2003 2:24:56 PM Eastern Standard > > Time, > > roach@XXXXXX writes: > > > > > However ... breaking a law you personally feel is wrong > > then crying foul > > > when you get caught is generally not the way to go > > about fighting an > > > unjust law. > > > > Gandhi, Martin Luther King, etc. would disagree. > > I is called > > ===== > Thomas H. Gimer > MURPHY & GIMER, LLC > 7940A Wisconsin Avenue > Bethesda, MD 20814 > 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) > http://www.murphygimer.com > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 16 10:10:42 2003 Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 07:10:34 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Throw that tea in the harbor! To: Paul Wilson , PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX i'll pull the california info on monday. if any of you get busted in maryland or dc for splitting, call me. --- Paul Wilson wrote: > Is there a synopsis somewhere on the legislative history > of California's > experience with lane-sharing? What limited information I > have suggests that > pressure on the legislature to not ban lane-sharing came > from a rather > unlikely source: cops. > > BTW, on the few occasions I've lane-split in the > District, it becomes > awfully addictive. It's hard *not* to split after you've > done it a few > times. > > Paul in DC, who practices civil-disobedience once in a > while. > 95 VFR - 86 VF500F - users.erols.com/pawilson > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom Gimer" > To: ; > Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2003 9:19 AM > Subject: Re: Throw that tea in the harbor! > > > > well put. if enough bikers started lane splitting > around > > here and hiring attorneys to argue on their behalf that > the > > [va.] reckless driving provision was being > > unconstitutionally applied to them, some serious > progress > > might be made on this issue. > > > > i believe that in 20 years the congestion here will be > so > > bad that we'll be legally splitting as they do in > europe > > and asia. (at least in maryland and dc we will.) > > > > > > > > --- PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > > > In a message dated 11/15/2003 2:24:56 PM Eastern > Standard > > > Time, > > > roach@XXXXXX writes: > > > > > > > However ... breaking a law you personally feel is > wrong > > > then crying foul > > > > when you get caught is generally not the way to go > > > about fighting an > > > > unjust law. > > > > > > Gandhi, Martin Luther King, etc. would disagree. > > > I is called > > > > ===== > > Thomas H. Gimer > > MURPHY & GIMER, LLC > > 7940A Wisconsin Avenue > > Bethesda, MD 20814 > > 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) > > http://www.murphygimer.com > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > > http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree > > > ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 16 12:29:53 2003 Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 09:29:50 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Throw that tea in the harbor! To: Paul Wilson , Tom Gimer , PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Especially with DC's 'no chase' policy. Wait, I did not say that (-: note: That was a joke, I do not advocate running from the police. > > BTW, on the few occasions I've lane-split in the > District, it becomes > awfully addictive. It's hard *not* to split after > you've done it a few > times. > > Paul in DC, who practices civil-disobedience once in > a while. > 95 VFR - 86 VF500F - users.erols.com/pawilson > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom Gimer" > To: ; > > Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2003 9:19 AM > Subject: Re: Throw that tea in the harbor! > > > > well put. if enough bikers started lane splitting > around > > here and hiring attorneys to argue on their behalf > that the > > [va.] reckless driving provision was being > > unconstitutionally applied to them, some serious > progress > > might be made on this issue. > > > > i believe that in 20 years the congestion here > will be so > > bad that we'll be legally splitting as they do in > europe > > and asia. (at least in maryland and dc we will.) > > > > > > > > --- PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > > > In a message dated 11/15/2003 2:24:56 PM Eastern > Standard > > > Time, > > > roach@XXXXXX writes: > > > > > > > However ... breaking a law you personally feel > is wrong > > > then crying foul > > > > when you get caught is generally not the way > to go > > > about fighting an > > > > unjust law. > > > > > > Gandhi, Martin Luther King, etc. would disagree. > > > I is called > > > > ===== > > Thomas H. Gimer > > MURPHY & GIMER, LLC > > 7940A Wisconsin Avenue > > Bethesda, MD 20814 > > 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) > > http://www.murphygimer.com > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail > AddressGuard > > http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 16 13:28:22 2003 Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 13:26:20 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Dan Brown Subject: Re: dc-cycles digest for 11/14/03 At 10:49 PM 11/14/2003 -0500, Bruce Brownlee wrote: >hint #1, if you are worried about the cops, its a good chance you >REALIZE what you are doing is illegal. Or you realize that you don't know the laws. Or you are generally afraid of the authority embodied in the blue uniform. Or you're worried that the uniform may be prejudiced against you because of who you are or what you're driving/riding. Or... >re. using the defense that a gust of wind caught you, would not >"failure to maintain control" fall somewhere in the 'reckless' arena. > >be a man and take the punishment. lanesplitters obviously know >its illegal or they wouldnt be so worried about getting caught. I've done no statistical analysis, but, it seems like many of the sorts of discussions - lane splitting or otherwise - start with something like "I'm new to the area, do you all know if..." Regarding "being a man and taking the punishment" -- unless I'm mistaken [1], he has to appear, due to this being a reckless ticket. As such, in my opinion, he would be wise to have council - if nothing else, to help navigate the processes and to make sure things don't get worse than they already are, no matter how he pleads. [1] IANAL -- Resist or Serve From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 16 15:21:01 2003 X-Http_host: webmail.ccm.udel.edu Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 15:14:44 -0500 Reply-To: Dave Streilein Subject: FYI on Maryland Tolls From: Dave Streilein To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX X-Webmail-User: streilei@XXXXXX Haven't seen this mentioned on here, so I just thought I'd give everyone a head's up... The tolls in Maryland are being increased as of yesterday, both Baltimore tunnels have increased to $2 each way, and the bridges over the susquehanna (Tidings? and Hatem) have gone up to $5, NB only... Those are the only changes I'm aware of, if you're on the EZ-Pass commuter plan, prices didn't change... d University of Delware-CCM C: 302-588-1883 W: 302-831-6644 davids@XXXXXX streilei@XXXXXX ***** GO HOKIES!!! ***** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 16 19:56:21 2003 Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 19:56:29 -0500 To: Brian Roach , "LindaT." From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: dc-cycles digest for 11/14/03 Cc: "Dc-Cycles (Dc-Cycles)" At 02:24 PM 11/15/03 -0500, Brian Roach wrote: >On Sat, 2003-11-15 at 13:35, LindaT. wrote: >> Doesn't it seem just a teeny bit arbitrary, that something that wouldn't >> merit a glance in the rest of the world (outside US) and CA (inside US), is >> deemed "RECKLESS" here and will hang around on your record as long as >> killing someone via vehicle? > >I agree with you in regard to the severity of the penalty. This is the >status quo in VA - 90% of what VA calls "reckless" on the books is >everyday driving on the beltway (the 20mph over clause, as an example). >Add to that the fact that it seems to be selectively applied depending >on whether the officer in question got his/her morning donut or not, and >it really sucks. I agree, but what do you expect from a state that refers to most common sexual practices as "crimes against nature"? Not that "nature" has ever signed a complaint about them... >At the same time ... that gives me little room to complain >should I get nailed for doing something I know is illegal, no matter how >I feel about the justness of it. In Sterling last night I got pulled over (though not ticketed - thanks officer!) for crossing a solid white line to get into a left turn lane...at 1:30 am. Is this legal? No. Was it in any way dangerous, given that I was the only one on the road at the time (the cop was in a nearby parking lot)? Nope. Why did the cop take the time to pull me over, yet not write me up for it? I don't know for sure, but I'm glad he didn't get out his pen! I suspect the real cause was to check to see if there were any signs that I was DUI (I wasn't). I'd just left a local bar/poolhall so it was a fair bet on his part. Or maybe he was just bored. Why did I cross a solid line instead of getting into the left turn lane properly? Unfamiliarity with the area. Didn't realize I needed to go left there until I saw down the other road a bit. If there'd been traffic I'd have gone straight, turned around somewhere and come back, but I was pretty much alone. Except for the cop. Adding to the local air pollution problems, and our oil import situation, just to be anal about compliance with painted markings didn't seem reasonable at the time. There have been times in the past, late at night with no other traffic around to help, where the loop-in-the-road-controlled-traffic-light refused to go green for me...and so I eventually treated it as a flashing red and went anyway. Is this legal? No, not really...but what else could I do? Sit there until they came to fix the design flaw in the light control system? If I'd gotten a ticket for that one, I'd have fought it hard. Fining you for failing to comply with a situation designed not to be workable is just totally unjust. I hear they sell "green magnets" to correct the deficiencies in the traffic control system...anyone know if those things work? Whether they can screw up your charging system in any way? -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 16 20:03:17 2003 Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 20:03:40 -0500 To: Wayne Edelen , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Shit-eating Grin At 05:48 PM 11/15/03 -0500, Wayne Edelen wrote: >Congrats, Brian! Be careful twisting the throttle on these cold roads. >Traction is scarce. Is that a sport-bike tire thing? I went for a ride with the MC-HOGS today, and didn't have any problems at all. We went from Gaithersburg, up to Frederick, back down into Potomac and then over to Germantown...almost all on back roads, though there were a few stretches on 355, Georgia, 117, 28 and I-70. I'll be happy when the leather pants I ordered get here. It's weird having my knees chilly while my upper body is toasty warm...or even overly warm (had the vents open on the jacket trying to keep that under control today). Helmet fogging is a problem. Keeping it cracked a bit until speed is 50 or higher works, but it would be nice to be able to close it (quieter for one thing). Tried "Fog Off", but that doesn't really help much...it keeps it from fogging opaque, but it leaves the moisture more "puddled", so it's like looking through a streaky windsheild. I'm really starting to think that a snorkel is the way to go... -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 16 20:14:49 2003 Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 20:15:15 -0500 To: Bruce Brownlee , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: dc-cycles digest for 11/15/03 At 07:18 PM 11/15/03 -0500, Bruce Brownlee wrote: > >Its with the fact that people KNOW what they are doing is >wrong, yet bitch when they get pinched. A slight quibble with terminology here? These practices we are talking about are not necessarily "wrong"...but they are "unlawful". The law doesn't have much to do with right and wrong in many cases...just what you will get punished for. >The way to change laws IN THIS COUNTRY is not by willfully ignoring >them. Actually that is one way to do it...but you then have to fight it in court and win by demonstrating that the law is wrong, rather than by showing that you didn't break it. Civil disobedience has been the start to changing a number of laws (such as the "blacks will ride in the back of the bus" ones), but it has to be followed up to be effective, and a lot of people may end up fined or in jail before the law is overturned or otherwise removed. I have no idea how you'd bring a Constitutional question into lane filtering though...maybe "restraint of interstate commerce"? Makes as much sense as using "interstate commerce" to let the Interior Department regulate wetlands due to waterfowl that cross state lines on their migrations landing there...potentially. That would put the question into the federal jurisdiction, not state, and I don't know if there are any federal laws against the practice. >Thats why society is judged by the existance of a RULE of law. If we actually had a strong rule of law in this country, given the laws on the books, everyone would be in jail for one thing or another. Especially in Virginia. Be glad most laws aren't enforced most of the time. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 16 20:20:23 2003 Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 20:20:30 -0500 To: "Dave Yates" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: dc-cycles digest for 11/15/03 At 07:44 PM 11/15/03 -0500, Dave Yates wrote: >That said, I think that the Reckless statute >is wrong headed as applied in this situation, I agree with this part of what you said...and I suspect that this may be how Shigeru's lawyer will approach it. There's a big difference between zipping between two cars on the interstate doing 75 to their 60, and carefully making your way past stopped vehicles in a traffic jam. The former is pretty reckless...the later is just efficient (if you have room to do it without a likelihood of damage to the vehicles you are passing of course). I suspect the law was passed with the former situation in mind, and if the judge agrees, the charges may be dismissed...even if it was a technical violation of the law. It wouldn't be a violation of the spirit of the law, which is supposed to matter in our system. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 16 20:37:55 2003 Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 20:38:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Shit-eating Grin From: Stephen Miller To: on 11/16/03 8:03 PM, Mike Bartman at omni@XXXXXX wrote: > At 05:48 PM 11/15/03 -0500, Wayne Edelen wrote: > >> Congrats, Brian! Be careful twisting the throttle on these cold roads. >> Traction is scarce. > > Is that a sport-bike tire thing? It's a sport-riding thing. It's also very easy to spin up a rear tire on a bike like a Bandit 1200 without really trying while exiting a corner. Imagine being leaned over and having the rear step out just as the front tire is rising off the pavement. Now imagine the road is cold and possibly wet and there are leaves and other crap on its surface. Traction is fine for a scenic ride at a cruising pace, but that's no fun... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 16 22:24:26 2003 Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 22:24:50 -0500 To: Stephen Miller , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Shit-eating Grin At 08:38 PM 11/16/03 -0500, Stephen Miller wrote: >on 11/16/03 8:03 PM, Mike Bartman at omni@XXXXXX wrote: > >> At 05:48 PM 11/15/03 -0500, Wayne Edelen wrote: >> >>> Congrats, Brian! Be careful twisting the throttle on these cold roads. >>> Traction is scarce. >> >> Is that a sport-bike tire thing? > >It's a sport-riding thing. It's also very easy to spin up a rear tire on a >bike like a Bandit 1200 without really trying while exiting a corner. >Imagine being leaned over and having the rear step out just as the front >tire is rising off the pavement. Ok, but with the power some bikes have that could happen on a nice sunny July day. I haven't noticed any decrease in traction with the lower temps lately...but I'm not on a sport bike, and my tires are likely to last 15,000 miles or so. Different composition I think than what the sport bike folks use. Just wondering if the problem was tires that react differently from mine or not. For instance, if they are softer and stickier to provide better traction for racing, colder temps would tend to make them harder and less sticky, and thus affect traction in a more noticeable way. >Now imagine the road is cold and possibly >wet and there are leaves and other crap on its surface. Wet and covered in slippery things is a problem for anyone on two wheels (or four in some cases). I didn't notice much wet pavement today, or many leaves on the road. Guess the recent wind took care of that while it was shoving over the large trees I saw toppled over in a few places. A few dead animals, including a deer but mostly squirrels, some small branches, and a couple of patches of gravel (mostly kicked out of the travel path by previous vehicles) were about it for hazards today. >Traction is fine >for a scenic ride at a cruising pace, but that's no fun... It is legal though...mostly. The "cruising pace" hit almost 80 in spots...trying to close up again after a light, stop sign or Volvo broke the group up. That peak was on I-70, but the pace was over the limit many times during the ride...though pretty close to it the majority of the time. There was some discussion of this at the after-ride lunch. Riding at the back of the pack is very different from riding near the front. A lot more like riding on the end of a Slinky (tm). Get lots of practice shifting though. This was with about 20 bikes. I'm sure it gets worse with even larger groups. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 16 22:39:53 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: Re: Shit-eating Grin Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 22:38:57 -0500 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec7929090809d6c374ab03a48a9a996c4464350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Mike B: > Ok, but with the power some bikes have that could happen on a nice sunny > July day. I haven't noticed any decrease in traction with the lower temps > lately...but I'm not on a sport bike, and my tires are likely to last > 15,000 miles or so. [Dave] Your bike plus rider equation has significantly less than a bandit 1.2k cc. > Different composition I think than what the sport bike > folks use. Just wondering if the problem was tires that react differently > from mine or not. For instance, if they are softer and stickier to provide > better traction for racing, colder temps would tend to make them harder and > less sticky, and thus affect traction in a more noticeable way. [Dave] Most sport bikes are significantly lighter (some standards too) than cruisers, and pack way more punch, so they need more traction potential to keep actual traction under throttle than all HD's but the Vrod. The sport bike stickies are stickier cold than your HD tires hot. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 16 23:03:03 2003 From: "Laura Roach" To: Subject: FS: Brand New Women's Teknic 2-Piece Leathers Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 22:59:20 -0500 Brand new (never been worn), tags still on them, Teknic Venom 2-Piece Ladies leather, all black. GREAT for track days and street riding. Size 12 (don't ask!). To see a pic and sizing information, visit Teknic's site at: www.teknicgear.com/pages/collections/ladies/2pc_suit.html I can also email you pictures if interested, but it looks exactly like the one on the site. These are a $500 set of leathers, you can ride away with them for only $250 plus the shipping cost. Laura From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 02:20:08 2003 Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 23:19:45 -0800 (PST) From: Adam Reinhardt Subject: Tire Questions To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I have a pair of tires that I'm thinking of using on my GS500 for a track day. The front tire is a Michelin Pilot Race 120/70/17. My GS is supposed to take a 110 but I've heard of people running a 120. The rear is a Pirelli Supercorsa. Question 1: Will the wider tire drastically affect my handling? Also, since the wider tire will likely slow down the steering, can I compensate with fork height in order to keep the steering quick and light? Question 2: Can I mix the Pilot with the Supercorsa? Anything to watch out for? Thanks, Adam __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 02:54:43 2003 Subject: Re: Tire Questions From: Brian Roach To: Adam Reinhardt Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 17 Nov 2003 02:54:35 -0500 Adam ... 1) Yes. The rim on the GS is a 3" rim which calls for a 110 tire. Squeezing a wider tire on will make the bike handle wrong. Might slow it down, might add some head shake ... hard to predict. You could lower the front (prob about 2 or 4mm) to account for the height gain but the tire profile is going to be fubar. 2) It's generally not a good idea. Again .. profile issues. Every manufacturer has a slightly diff tire profile, and the front and rears are made to work together. Mixing can often lead to weird handling probs. That being said ... depending on how hard you're riding the bike ... you may not have a problem. It is a GS, which is not exactly the pinnacle of motorcycle handling (not trying to take a jab ... just a fact). It would just handle better with the correct size of tire on the front and the same brand rear. =- Roach On Mon, 2003-11-17 at 02:19, Adam Reinhardt wrote: > I have a pair of tires that I'm thinking of using on > my GS500 for a track day. The front tire is a Michelin > Pilot Race 120/70/17. My GS is supposed to take a 110 > but I've heard of people running a 120. The rear is a > Pirelli Supercorsa. > > Question 1: Will the wider tire drastically affect my > handling? Also, since the wider tire will likely slow > down the steering, can I compensate with fork height > in order to keep the steering quick and light? > > Question 2: Can I mix the Pilot with the Supercorsa? > Anything to watch out for? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 07:49:13 2003 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 04:48:50 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Ray Subject: Over-gloves? To: DC Cycles Is there such a thing? Fit over a normal MC glove & provide weather protection as well as cutting the wind? I'm thinking this might be a decent option for me, vs. a dedicated cold-weather glove, especially if combined with a glove liner. Any options / opinions? Thanks, Brian '03 Shit-eating Grin __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 08:03:54 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: Brian Ray , DC Cycles Subject: Re: Over-gloves? Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 8:03:46 -0500 Brian Ray wrote: > > Is there such a thing? Fit over a normal MC glove & > provide weather protection as well as cutting the > wind? I'm thinking this might be a decent option for > me, vs. a dedicated cold-weather glove, especially if > combined with a glove liner. > Check out http://www.riderwearhouse.com . Do a search on "gloves," then scroll down and look at the blue "Rain Glove Covers" and "Triple Digit Rain Cover." I have a pair of the blue ones, but haven't had the opportunity to actually try them yet. I figure for $3, you can't go wrong. HTH, Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" '92 ST1100, "red STag" '02 919, "still looking for a name" A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers.... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 08:26:57 2003 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 08:27:07 -0500 Subject: Re: Shit-eating Grin From: Stephen Miller To: on 11/16/03 10:24 PM, Mike Bartman at omni@XXXXXX wrote: > > Ok, but with the power some bikes have that could happen on a nice sunny > July day. I haven't noticed any decrease in traction with the lower temps > lately...but I'm not on a sport bike, and my tires are likely to last > 15,000 miles or so. Different composition I think than what the sport bike > folks use. Different as in less sticky. When you use more traction, you are more sensitive to changes in traction. I can easily tell the difference between when my tires are warm and when they're cold, and when the road is cold. > Wet and covered in slippery things is a problem for anyone on two wheels > (or four in some cases). But the more leaned over you are, on a lighter, more powerful bike, the more it matters. And as cool as it was last week, the difference just in road temperature is definitely perceptible. > It is legal though...mostly. The "cruising pace" hit almost 80 in > spots...trying to close up again after a light, stop sign or Volvo broke > the group up. So? We're not even speaking the same language here. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 08:33:01 2003 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Over-gloves? Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 08:21:37 -0500 They make glove liners. Go under your gloves. Got a pair for $5 a few yrs back. >From: Brian Ray >To: DC Cycles >Subject: Over-gloves? >Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 04:48:50 -0800 (PST) > >Is there such a thing? Fit over a normal MC glove & >provide weather protection as well as cutting the >wind? I'm thinking this might be a decent option for >me, vs. a dedicated cold-weather glove, especially if >combined with a glove liner. > > >Any options / opinions? > >Thanks, > >Brian >'03 Shit-eating Grin > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard >http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree > _________________________________________________________________ Is your computer infected with a virus? Find out with a FREE computer virus scan from McAfee. Take the FreeScan now! http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 08:34:23 2003 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 08:33:04 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: Brian Ray CC: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Over-gloves? Visit your local grocery store - dishwashing gloves, waterproof, nibs for traction, and cheap! Brian Ray wrote: > Is there such a thing? Fit over a normal MC glove & > provide weather protection as well as cutting the > wind? I'm thinking this might be a decent option for > me, vs. a dedicated cold-weather glove, especially if > combined with a glove liner. > > Any options / opinions? > > Thanks, > > Brian > '03 Shit-eating Grin > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 09:50:58 2003 From: Han Park To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Was Re: Re: Riding in, now Coolant Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 09:50:58 -0500 Would taking a little out and putting it in the freezer to see if it freezes be an acceptable solution around here? han > -----Original Message----- > From: Carl Schelin [mailto:dm_gsxr@XXXXXX] > Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 12:22 PM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Was Re: Re: Riding in, now Coolant > > > > --- Mark Kitchell wrote: > > Is there a way to test your coolant to see that the > > mix is? > > > > I remember the motorpool guys doing a density test on the > coolant to make > sure it was good but I don't know exactly what they did. > > Carl > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search > http://shopping.yahoo.com > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 10:02:58 2003 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 07:02:50 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Fog City To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Just a quick note. After all the recommendations for the Fog City shield, I happened to be down at Morton's and picked up one. I put it on my shield last night after really cleaning it. When I put my helmet on this morning I was rather surprised that there was _no_ fog on the visor. Out of habit, I lifted it a couple of times at the stop signs but by the time I got to the light on Dale Blvd, I left it down. After getting on the freeway, I even closed the vents and then _tried_ to fog up the visor with no luck. I was able to fog up the shield past the edges of the Fog City shield so I know it's in a situation where the shield would have fogged up if it wasn't for the Fog City shield. When I got here, I noticed a little rippling at the bottom of the visor. When I checked, it was a layer of water, presumably vapor from breathing. There was _no_ other distortion of vision, everything was nice and clear. There was a little condensation on the outside from the fog but a quick finger wipe or turn of the head eliminated that. As far as I'm concerned with the first use, it gets top scores. Next check is longevity and how well it takes to cleaning. Thanks again for the recommendations. Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 10:04:50 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: Han Park , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: RE: Was Re: Re: Riding in, now Coolant Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:04:44 -0500 > > From: Han Park in, now Coolant > > Would taking a little out and putting it in the freezer to see if it > freezes be an acceptable solution around here? > Well, I suppose it might give you what you need, but why not stop by Wal-Mart, or any auto parts store, and buy a "coolant tester." For about $3 you can be sure. A coolant tester, for those who don't know, looks like a miniature turkey baster, or a big srynge with some balls floating inside it. My seeing how many balls float vs. sink, and looking at a chart that's either printed on the tester or on a separate sheet of paper, you can determine the specific gravity of the anti-freeze, which tells you how low it will protect to. And while you're at it, pay attention to the color. If it looks really dirty, rusty, or weak, replace it anyway. Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" '92 ST1100, "red STag" '02 919, "still looking for a name" A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers.... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 10:09:58 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Insurance anti-(motorcycle)-discrimination bill re-introduced in Congress Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:09:51 -0500 see: http://capwiz.com/amacycle/index_frame.dbq?url=http://capwiz.com/amacycle/home/ The AMA has a form letter on the web site that you can sign and automatically email to your senators and representative. Let's show them this matters to us: >Anti-discrimination health insurance bill moving in U.S. Senate > >Take action now">www.amadirectlink.com >in the AMA Rapid Response Center.Send a message to your elected officials > >Oct. 31 ? A bipartisan bill to end health-care discrimination against >motorcyclists and all-terrain vehicle riders has cleared a key U.S. Senate >committee. > >By a unanimous voice vote, the Senate Health, Education, Labor and >Pensions Committee on Oct. 29 approved S. 423 that would bar health plans >from denying benefits to people injured while riding motorcycles, ATVs, >horses, or engaging in other legal recreational or transportation >activities. > >"This legislation closes a loophole that allows insurance companies to >deny coverage for someone who is hurt while snowmobiling, but covers >someone who is injured while drinking and driving their car," said U.S. >Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine), who co-authored the bill. "Americans pay >enough for their health insurance that they should receive the same >coverage and benefits whether they break their arm skiing or from falling >down the back stairs." > >"U.S. Sen. Russ Feingold (D-Wis.), the measure's other co-author, said: >"Millions of people participate in these legal recreational activities >every day. I am thrilled to see this bipartisan support to close a >loophole that may have prevented people from enjoying these legal >activities out of fear they may be refused health coverage because of it." > >A similar measure, HR 1749, is being considered in the U.S. House of >Representatives. > >"We must press on," said AMA Washington Representative Patrick Holtz. "The >Senate bill will move to the floor for consideration. Meanwhile, the House >bill still needs to get out of committee." The House bill has been >referred to the Ways and Means, Energy and Commerce, and the Education and >Workforce committees. > >In 1996, Congress passed the Health Insurance Portability and >Accountability Act (HIPAA), which prohibits companies from denying access >to employer-sponsored health insurance for motorcyclists and those who >participate in other recreational activities. However, federal regulators >created a loophole that allows the denial of benefits under various >conditions. > >The AMA, the Motorcycle Riders Foundation and various state motorcyclists' >rights organizations are working to get this legislation approved. > >"This is an important step in ensuring that the original intent of the >HIPAA legislation is upheld," said U.S. Rep. Scott McInnis (R-Colo.), who >is on the Ways and Means committee. "I look forward to working with my >colleagues to see this important clarification through." > >U.S. Rep. Ted Strickland (D-Ohio), who sits on the Energy and Commerce >committee, saw the Senate move as a hopeful sign for the House >legislation. > >"Now that this important bill has taken a major step through the Senate, I >hope the House leadership will finally move forward on this issue," >Strickland said. "This legislation is a bipartisan effort to end the >discriminatory practice of denying benefits to millions of Americans who >participate in recreational sports." > >)B© 2003, American Motorcyclist Association Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" '92 ST1100, "red STag" '02 919, "still looking for a name" A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers.... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 10:14:55 2003 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 07:14:52 -0800 (PST) From: Aaron Subject: Re: Lane splitting To: Tom Gimer , dc-cycles@XXXXXX That was my intended thought -- what should have been said during the traffic stop. This was my line on my old Triumph. (Of course, by the time I pulled over to the side of the road and took my helmet off, the temp gauge _would've_ been in the red on the old Triumph. Not so certain that'll work on the Beemer.) I think the reason that serious charges pop up in Virginia relatively frequently is due to the narrow-mindedness of the laws. A class 1 misdemeanor charge for going 80 mph in a 65 mph zone? Ridiculous. The mean speed of traffic in my experience (wild-ass guess) is usually 75 +/- 5 mph. --- Tom Gimer wrote: > i'm interested to hear what shigeru _said_ during > the > traffic stop.... > > you licensed to practice in virginia, aaron? seems > like we > get ~10 relatively serious dc-cycles va. traffic > cases per > year reported on this list.... > > > --- Aaron wrote: > > Shigeru, > > > > It's a shame that your new bike started > overheating in > > the stalled traffic. First time you'd been caught > in > > traffic like that on the new bike, right? Better > to > > get to the next exit and pull over than stall in > teh > > middle of 66 and add to the problem . . . > > > > > > > ===== > Thomas H. Gimer > MURPHY & GIMER, LLC > 7940A Wisconsin Avenue > Bethesda, MD 20814 > 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) > http://www.murphygimer.com > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 10:20:41 2003 From: To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Fog City Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:20:34 -0500 > > From: Carl Schelin > Date: 2003/11/17 Mon AM 10:02:50 EST > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Fog City > > Just a quick note. After all the recommendations for the Fog City shield, > I happened to be down at Morton's and picked up one. > > I put it on my shield last night after really cleaning it. > > When I put my helmet on this morning I was rather surprised that there was > _no_ fog on the visor. Out of habit, I lifted it a couple of times at the > stop signs but by the time I got to the light on Dale Blvd, I left it > down. > > After getting on the freeway, I even closed the vents and then _tried_ to > fog up the visor with no luck. I was able to fog up the shield past the > edges of the Fog City shield so I know it's in a situation where the > shield would have fogged up if it wasn't for the Fog City shield. > > When I got here, I noticed a little rippling at the bottom of the visor. > When I checked, it was a layer of water, presumably vapor from breathing. > There was _no_ other distortion of vision, everything was nice and clear. > There was a little condensation on the outside from the fog but a quick > finger wipe or turn of the head eliminated that. > > As far as I'm concerned with the first use, it gets top scores. Next check > is longevity and how well it takes to cleaning. > > Thanks again for the recommendations. > > Carl > Carl, I've had a Fog City shield on my Shoei FF for over 4 years and it's working like new. cheers, -aki From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 10:28:58 2003 Reply-To: "Jon Strang" From: "Jon Strang" To: "Mike Bartman" , Subject: magnets for traffic stop Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:28:39 -0500 Mike, The magnets work as well for traffic lights as they do for curing what ails you (magnet wrist bands for a sore wrist, etc). If you believe, they will work. Otherwise, not. Seriously, the loops in the pavement are inductors. Even a one or two lb. magnet is insignificant compared to 500 lbs of metal...and it just ain't gonna give you 3000lbs of metal's (a car) worth of core for the coil. --jon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Bartman" > > I hear they sell "green magnets" to correct the deficiencies in the traffic > control system...anyone know if those things work? Whether they can screw > up your charging system in any way? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 10:29:51 2003 From: "Julian Halton" To: Subject: New Rider Question Rusty Chain. Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:31:03 -0500 bought an '02 Yamaha R6 with 3400 miles on it. Got some rust on the chain. Should I replace the chain or is there a good way to remove the rust without dis-assembling the bike? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 10:31:18 2003 Reply-To: "Jon Strang" From: "Jon Strang" To: Subject: Re: Shit-eating Grin Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:30:55 -0500 I think a stock Bandit has more torque than a stock HD at any RPM over 2k or 2.5k. --jon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Yates" To: Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2003 10:38 PM Subject: Re: Shit-eating Grin > Mike B: > > Ok, but with the power some bikes have that could happen on a nice sunny > > July day. I haven't noticed any decrease in traction with the lower temps > > lately...but I'm not on a sport bike, and my tires are likely to last > > 15,000 miles or so. > > [Dave] Your bike plus rider equation has significantly less than a bandit > 1.2k cc. > > > Different composition I think than what the sport bike > > folks use. Just wondering if the problem was tires that react differently > > from mine or not. For instance, if they are softer and stickier to > provide > > better traction for racing, colder temps would tend to make them harder > and > > less sticky, and thus affect traction in a more noticeable way. > > [Dave] Most sport bikes are significantly lighter (some standards too) than > cruisers, and pack > way more punch, so they need more traction potential to keep actual traction > under throttle than > all HD's but the Vrod. The sport bike stickies are stickier cold than your > HD tires hot. > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 10:31:30 2003 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 07:31:23 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: New Rider Question Rusty Chain. To: Julian Halton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX lube that thang and ride it --- Julian Halton wrote: > bought an '02 Yamaha R6 with 3400 miles on it. Got some > rust on the chain. > Should I replace the chain or is there a good way to > remove the rust without > dis-assembling the bike? ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 10:33:38 2003 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 07:33:20 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: New Rider Question Rusty Chain. To: Julian Halton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Julian: Are you new to motorcycling? If so, please be careful on an R6, that is a very powerful bike. --- Tom Gimer wrote: > lube that thang and ride it > > > --- Julian Halton wrote: > > bought an '02 Yamaha R6 with 3400 miles on it. Got > some > > rust on the chain. > > Should I replace the chain or is there a good way > to > > remove the rust without > > dis-assembling the bike? > > > ===== > Thomas H. Gimer > MURPHY & GIMER, LLC > 7940A Wisconsin Avenue > Bethesda, MD 20814 > 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) > http://www.murphygimer.com > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 10:47:54 2003 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:47:40 -0500 (EST) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: magnets for traffic stop On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, Jon Strang wrote: > Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:28:39 -0500 > From: Jon Strang > To: Mike Bartman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: magnets for traffic stop > > Mike, > > The magnets work as well for traffic lights as they do for curing what ails > you (magnet wrist bands for a sore wrist, etc). > > If you believe, they will work. Otherwise, not. > > Seriously, the loops in the pavement are inductors. Even a one or two lb. > magnet is insignificant compared to 500 lbs of metal...and it just ain't > gonna give you 3000lbs of metal's (a car) worth of core for the coil. > > --jon What works better, in Virginia anyhow, is contacting the DOT and telling them that they have a problem with the sensor at the traffic light. http://virginiadot.org/infoservice/contact-us.asp http://virginiadot.org/comtravel/eoc/citizen.asp > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Bartman" > > > I hear they sell "green magnets" to correct the deficiencies in the > traffic > > control system...anyone know if those things work? Whether they can screw > > up your charging system in any way? > > -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 10:49:06 2003 From: "Julian Halton" To: "Mark Kitchell" , Subject: Taking Care Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:50:18 -0500 The shorts: - took the MSF course (thanks a million Bill et al. for teaching good habits right off!) - have put 2000 miles on the bike - won't have even one drink - Look at every vehicle on the road, imagine the worst thing possible the driver could do and figure a way out. (Sad to say this has already happened about eight times) - ride with guys with experience - Most importantly: know myself, know the bike, know my limits and know my enemies - Preparation, preparation, preparation For those of you who know a certain BMW riding realtor- I owe him a debt of thanks for introducing me to one of the top five best things I have done in 32 years of existence. Looking forward to a track day or two next year. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 10:51:27 2003 From: "Rob Keiser" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Over-gloves? Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:39:59 -0500 Brian, The 'stich triple digit rain covers, while a bit pricey IMHO, do work well. They take a little getting used to, but really do provide a weatherproof cover for your regular gloves. Rob '98 VFR800 From: Brian Ray To: DC Cycles Subject: Over-gloves? Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 04:48:50 -0800 (PST) Is there such a thing? Fit over a normal MC glove & provide weather protection as well as cutting the wind? I'm thinking this might be a decent option for me, vs. a dedicated cold-weather glove, especially if combined with a glove liner. Any options / opinions? Thanks, Brian '03 Shit-eating Grin __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree _________________________________________________________________ Send a QuickGreet with MSN Messenger http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/cdp_games From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 10:51:30 2003 Reply-To: "Jon Strang" From: "Jon Strang" To: Subject: Re: Shit-eating Grin Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:51:01 -0500 Nope, I lied. Just looked up some dyno charts. A stock TC-88 and a stock B12 have about the same torque at about 3,500 rpm. TC-88 has a bit over 70 from 2,200, then the TC-88 edges off, goes under 70 ft-lbs at 4,500 and falls on its face at about 5,750 (limiter?). Bandit is at 64 ft-lbs at 3250, above 70 by 3,600, and stays above 70 ft lbs to about 7500 rpm, then starts to edge off pretty linearly to 50 ft lbs at about 10,000 rpm. --jon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Strang" To: Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 10:30 AM Subject: Re: Shit-eating Grin > I think a stock Bandit has more torque than a stock HD at any RPM over 2k or > 2.5k. > > --jon > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dave Yates" > To: > Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2003 10:38 PM > Subject: Re: Shit-eating Grin > > > > Mike B: > > > Ok, but with the power some bikes have that could happen on a nice sunny > > > July day. I haven't noticed any decrease in traction with the lower > temps > > > lately...but I'm not on a sport bike, and my tires are likely to last > > > 15,000 miles or so. > > > > [Dave] Your bike plus rider equation has significantly less than a bandit > > 1.2k cc. > > > > > Different composition I think than what the sport bike > > > folks use. Just wondering if the problem was tires that react > differently > > > from mine or not. For instance, if they are softer and stickier to > > provide > > > better traction for racing, colder temps would tend to make them harder > > and > > > less sticky, and thus affect traction in a more noticeable way. > > > > [Dave] Most sport bikes are significantly lighter (some standards too) > than > > cruisers, and pack > > way more punch, so they need more traction potential to keep actual > traction > > under throttle than > > all HD's but the Vrod. The sport bike stickies are stickier cold than > your > > HD tires hot. > > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 10:56:12 2003 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:56:00 -0500 (EST) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Was Re: Re: Riding in, now Coolant On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, Han Park wrote: > Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 09:50:58 -0500 > From: Han Park > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: RE: Was Re: Re: Riding in, now Coolant > > Would taking a little out and putting it in the freezer to see if it > freezes be an acceptable solution around here? Antifreeze tester's are not expensive: http://www.247autoparts.com/store/antifreezetester.html They work by looking at the specific gravity of the liquid. Also, for that matter, simply replacing the antifreeze is also not too expensive, even for the zoochi stuff: Teutonic: http://tinyurl.com/vcii Amur'can: http://tinyurl.com/vcin -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 11:06:56 2003 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:22:42 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Shit-eating Grin On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, Jon Strang wrote: > Nope, I lied. Just looked up some dyno charts. A stock TC-88 and a stock > B12 have about the same torque at about 3,500 rpm. TC-88 has a bit over 70 > from 2,200, then the TC-88 edges off, goes under 70 ft-lbs at 4,500 and > falls on its face at about 5,750 (limiter?). > > Bandit is at 64 ft-lbs at 3250, above 70 by 3,600, and stays above 70 ft lbs > to about 7500 rpm, then starts to edge off pretty linearly to 50 ft lbs at > about 10,000 rpm. > > --jon Don't you have a B12, Jon? Have you put it on a dyno to see what it's making at the wheels? My 'Busa is making 50 ftlbs at the wheel by 2000 rpm and it peaks at 102 ftlbs at the wheel, making a nice flat 90+ from 4800-9800rpm. Here is a copy of the chart - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/081903/wayne.jpg Definately makes for a smooth, effortless ride ;-) -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 11:24:39 2003 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:26:54 -0500 From: "Steven C. Di Pietro" To: DCCycles Subject: The Clutch Show X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out008.verizon.net from [141.157.12.170] at Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:24:36 -0600 Hi all, I got the following on one of my other e-mail lists. It sorta' looks interesting, so I thought I'd pass it along. Steven C. Di Pietro Interim National Director The Suzuki Owners Club -USA 16 W. Jeffrey Street Baltimore Md. 21225-1713 http://www.soc-usa.org 1996 Suzuki Katana 600 2001 Suzuki Marauder 800 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- \____THE CLUTCH____/ The Staff of THE CLUTCH would like to send a special invitation to one and all to join our newsgroup http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/theclutchshow/ You were selected because of your motorcycle enthusiasm in one way or another. This is the newsgroup of the "FIRST" TV Show for the extreme rider and the urban sport bike culture. The purpose of The Clutch is to create a group of motorcycle riders and enthusiasts that promote riding for pleasure, sport, and stunt. The group shall foster an environment that creates an experience of enjoyment, knowledge, and safety so that the benefits of riding can be shared by all. We'll be using this newsgroup while our website WWW.THE-CLUTCH.COM is being constructed. Please feel free to leave your comments, discussions, information, questions, and suggestions. "Now That's Street" THE CLUTCH PO BOX 54109 Washington, DC 20032 www.the-clutch.com info@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 11:26:59 2003 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:26:36 -0500 From: Skip CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: magnets for traffic stop Speaking of traffic light inductors... I have better luck with them when I ride directly over the 'center' coil, as opposed to either of the side ones. --skip Jon Strang wrote: > > Mike, > > The magnets work as well for traffic lights as they do for curing what ails > you (magnet wrist bands for a sore wrist, etc). > > If you believe, they will work. Otherwise, not. > > Seriously, the loops in the pavement are inductors. Even a one or two lb. > magnet is insignificant compared to 500 lbs of metal...and it just ain't > gonna give you 3000lbs of metal's (a car) worth of core for the coil. > > --jon > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Bartman" > > > I hear they sell "green magnets" to correct the deficiencies in the > traffic > > control system...anyone know if those things work? Whether they can screw > > up your charging system in any way? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 11:29:11 2003 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:29:02 -0500 From: Skip To: Aaron CC: Tom Gimer , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Lane splitting When I was in court a couple weeks back, the judge was handing out max fines for line cutters, and soulder riders... $200 iirc. His rationale was that line cutting induces road rage. YMMV, PDoaCC --skip Aaron wrote: > > That was my intended thought -- what should have been > said during the traffic stop. This was my line on my > old Triumph. (Of course, by the time I pulled over to > the side of the road and took my helmet off, the temp > gauge _would've_ been in the red on the old Triumph. > Not so certain that'll work on the Beemer.) > > I think the reason that serious charges pop up in > Virginia relatively frequently is due to the > narrow-mindedness of the laws. A class 1 misdemeanor > charge for going 80 mph in a 65 mph zone? Ridiculous. > The mean speed of traffic in my experience (wild-ass > guess) is usually 75 +/- 5 mph. > > --- Tom Gimer wrote: > > i'm interested to hear what shigeru _said_ during > > the > > traffic stop.... > > > > you licensed to practice in virginia, aaron? seems > > like we > > get ~10 relatively serious dc-cycles va. traffic > > cases per > > year reported on this list.... > > > > > > --- Aaron wrote: > > > Shigeru, > > > > > > It's a shame that your new bike started > > overheating in > > > the stalled traffic. First time you'd been caught > > in > > > traffic like that on the new bike, right? Better > > to > > > get to the next exit and pull over than stall in > > teh > > > middle of 66 and add to the problem . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > ===== > > Thomas H. Gimer > > MURPHY & GIMER, LLC > > 7940A Wisconsin Avenue > > Bethesda, MD 20814 > > 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) > > http://www.murphygimer.com > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > > http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 11:39:06 2003 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:13:14 -0500 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Fog City At 07:02 AM 11/17/03 -0800, Carl Schelin wrote about Fog City: >As far as I'm concerned with the first use, it gets top scores. Next check >is longevity and how well it takes to cleaning. I hear that you should really avoid sneezing in your helmet with one of those. Other than that, everything anyone has said about them here, or elsewhere is good. I'm going to get one I think. Fogging is a real problem these days. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 11:39:10 2003 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:17:31 -0500 To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX, Han Park , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: RE: Was Re: Re: Riding in, now Coolant At 10:04 AM 11/17/03 -0500, Bob Meyer wrote: > >A coolant tester, for those who don't know, looks like a miniature turkey baster, or a big syringe with some balls floating inside it. My seeing how many balls float vs. sink, and looking at a chart that's either printed on the tester or on a separate sheet of paper, you can determine the specific gravity of the anti-freeze, which tells you how low it will protect to. There are some models that use a little capsule instead of the balls. The capsule has markings on it that either tell you the specific gravity (which you then look up on the chart, which is probably glued to the tester), or the temp it will protect to directly. How high the capsule floats in the coolant tells you know which reading you have. Be careful you get a tester intended for coolant...there are very similar items designed for testing battery acid. I've got both, and they look the same until you get down to the markings and labeling used. If you fail to look carefully before you buy, you may end up having to take it back for an exchange. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 11:39:15 2003 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:27:46 -0500 To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Insurance anti-(motorcycle)-discrimination bill re-introduced in Congress I'm slightly ambivalent about this. While it would be nice to be sure that all insurance would cover me in the event of a bike accident, I can also see such a coverage requirement as leading to slightly increased premiums for everyone...and that leading to calls for anything that would reduce the costs paid out. Things like helmets, mandatory leathers, reduced power to weight ratios, etc.. The insurance argument is one of the big items that led to mandatory helmet laws in the past, so this is a real concern. It might be ok if the requirement for coverage was there, but an allowance made to charge higher premiums for people at higher risk. That would make the coverage available, but eliminate the "I don't want to pay for their choices" argument...we'd be paying for our own choices. On the other hand, lots of people do things that increase their risk of needing insurance pay outs...such as eating fast food every day, not exercising, and acting like idiots in lots of ways. If we increased everyone's premiums who did things like that we'd probably find that most people fit the definition of "risky behavior" and it would all average out anyway. Still, it's more likely that people who do things like skydive, climb mountains, scuba dive, fly their own planes, and ride motorcycles, etc. would be singled out anyway...politics and human perceptions being what they are. Facts don't matter much in discussions like that. Hence the ambivalence. -- Mike B. At 10:09 AM 11/17/03 -0500, Bob Meyer wrote: >see: http://capwiz.com/amacycle/index_frame.dbq?url=http://capwiz.com/amacycle/ho me/ > >The AMA has a form letter on the web site that you can sign and automatically email to your senators and representative. Let's show them this matters to us: > >>Anti-discrimination health insurance bill moving in U.S. Senate >> >>Take action now">www.amadirectlink.com >>in the AMA Rapid Response Center.Send a message to your elected officials >> >>Oct. 31 ? A bipartisan bill to end health-care discrimination against >>motorcyclists and all-terrain vehicle riders has cleared a key U.S. Senate >>committee. >> >>By a unanimous voice vote, the Senate Health, Education, Labor and >>Pensions Committee on Oct. 29 approved S. 423 that would bar health plans >>from denying benefits to people injured while riding motorcycles, ATVs, >>horses, or engaging in other legal recreational or transportation >>activities. >> >>"This legislation closes a loophole that allows insurance companies to >>deny coverage for someone who is hurt while snowmobiling, but covers >>someone who is injured while drinking and driving their car," said U.S. >>Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine), who co-authored the bill. "Americans pay >>enough for their health insurance that they should receive the same >>coverage and benefits whether they break their arm skiing or from falling >>down the back stairs." >> >>"U.S. Sen. Russ Feingold (D-Wis.), the measure's other co-author, said: >>"Millions of people participate in these legal recreational activities >>every day. I am thrilled to see this bipartisan support to close a >>loophole that may have prevented people from enjoying these legal >>activities out of fear they may be refused health coverage because of it." >> >>A similar measure, HR 1749, is being considered in the U.S. House of >>Representatives. >> >>"We must press on," said AMA Washington Representative Patrick Holtz. "The >>Senate bill will move to the floor for consideration. Meanwhile, the House >>bill still needs to get out of committee." The House bill has been >>referred to the Ways and Means, Energy and Commerce, and the Education and >>Workforce committees. >> >>In 1996, Congress passed the Health Insurance Portability and >>Accountability Act (HIPAA), which prohibits companies from denying access >>to employer-sponsored health insurance for motorcyclists and those who >>participate in other recreational activities. However, federal regulators >>created a loophole that allows the denial of benefits under various >>conditions. >> >>The AMA, the Motorcycle Riders Foundation and various state motorcyclists' >>rights organizations are working to get this legislation approved. >> >>"This is an important step in ensuring that the original intent of the >>HIPAA legislation is upheld," said U.S. Rep. Scott McInnis (R-Colo.), who >>is on the Ways and Means committee. "I look forward to working with my >>colleagues to see this important clarification through." >> >>U.S. Rep. Ted Strickland (D-Ohio), who sits on the Energy and Commerce >>committee, saw the Senate move as a hopeful sign for the House >>legislation. >> >>"Now that this important bill has taken a major step through the Senate, I >>hope the House leadership will finally move forward on this issue," >>Strickland said. "This legislation is a bipartisan effort to end the >>discriminatory practice of denying benefits to millions of Americans who >>participate in recreational sports." >> >>)B© 2003, American Motorcyclist Association > > >Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 >'01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" >'92 ST1100, "red STag" >'02 919, "still looking for a name" > >A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers.... > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 11:39:19 2003 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:39:38 -0500 To: "Jon Strang" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Shit-eating Grin At 10:51 AM 11/17/03 -0500, Jon Strang wrote: >Nope, I lied. Just looked up some dyno charts. A stock TC-88 and a stock >B12 have about the same torque at about 3,500 rpm. TC-88 has a bit over 70 >from 2,200, then the TC-88 edges off, goes under 70 ft-lbs at 4,500 and That fits what I've read in the mags and seen on the TV shows that do that sort of thing. You can do some easy mods that get you up around or over 90 ft/lbs (replacing air filter, exhaust pipes and changing EFI settings), and some much more expensive things (swapping pistons and cylinders for larger ones among other things) that take it up closer to 170 (probably with attendant reductions in reliability and longevity. To get there though, you are pretty much rebuilding the engine from the ground up, with modified cases and everything (for strength). S&S built some 145 ci V-twin engines in that range last year as a commemorative thing...they aren't planning to mass produce them though). >falls on its face at about 5,750 (limiter?). I hear there is a rev limiter, and that it is somewhere in that range. Not sure though. >Bandit is at 64 ft-lbs at 3250, above 70 by 3,600, and stays above 70 ft lbs >to about 7500 rpm, then starts to edge off pretty linearly to 50 ft lbs at >about 10,000 rpm. No way a HD V-twin will do that sort of red line. Nor does it need to. :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 11:48:16 2003 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:47:53 -0500 To: Skip From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: magnets for traffic stop Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Thanks everyone. >From what I can see by looking at the cuts in the road surface, it looks like there are usually two loops, side by side. The center part would thus be getting you picked up by *both* loops, and should work better...if the sensitivity is good enough. It's basically a big metal detector. It creates a magnetic field by running a current through the loop wires, then looks for changes in that field caused by other fields or ferrous materials (i.e. steel). A small magnet will have more effect than several times as much metal, but I don't know whether that's enough to make up for the difference in metal content between my bike and a Cadillac. Just wondering if anyone has tried it both ways at a given light and had actual experience to relate. The theory is sound enough, but the exact numbers are critical. I also don't know how a strong field produced by these things will affect the field produced by the charging system on the bike...it's going to be located fairly nearby and only shielded by some aluminum (i.e. not much). Just wondering about experience related to that too. -- Mike B. At 11:26 AM 11/17/03 -0500, Skip wrote: >Speaking of traffic light inductors... > >I have better luck with them when I ride directly over the 'center' coil, as >opposed to either of the side ones. > >--skip > >Jon Strang wrote: >> >> Mike, >> >> The magnets work as well for traffic lights as they do for curing what ails >> you (magnet wrist bands for a sore wrist, etc). >> >> If you believe, they will work. Otherwise, not. >> >> Seriously, the loops in the pavement are inductors. Even a one or two lb. >> magnet is insignificant compared to 500 lbs of metal...and it just ain't >> gonna give you 3000lbs of metal's (a car) worth of core for the coil. >> >> --jon >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mike Bartman" > >> > I hear they sell "green magnets" to correct the deficiencies in the >> traffic >> > control system...anyone know if those things work? Whether they can screw >> > up your charging system in any way? > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 11:57:16 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Rob Keiser" , Subject: Re: Over-gloves? Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:56:14 -0500 Yup, great gear that actually works. Just wear 'em and the glove gauntlets *under* your jacket cuffs in a heavy rain. They have also extending my summer glove temperature range downward by about ten degrees. And, they breathe, unlike dishwashing gloves and other bargain solutions. Highly recommended. Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob Keiser" ? > Brian, > > The 'stich triple digit rain covers, while a bit pricey IMHO, do work well. > They take a little getting used to, but really do provide a weatherproof > cover for your regular gloves. > > Rob > '98 VFR800 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 12:05:21 2003 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 09:04:47 -0800 (PST) From: matthew patton Subject: what to do? my bike blew over onto somebody else's To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX you all remember the windy day from last week. Here at CGNorth in crystal city about 8 to 9 bikes cram themselves onto a stretch of unofficial motorcycle parking on a sidewalk. So it turns out my bike (which apparently doesn't lean much when on it's sidestand anyway) blew over into this guy's scooter and broke one of the fairing panels and the turnsignal (actually the turn signal is what took the hit and it broke the panel). Damage to my bike is a small dent on the gas tank - not enough for me to give a rat's ass about. He left me a note saying "your bike fell on mine. call me." What do I/we do about this? I suspect his deductables are 250 or more like mine and I doubt the repairs will exceed that. Should he be claiming it under comprehensive under his own insurance? I think so since if the bike fell over in his own parking spot at home that's what he'd be doing as would I. Unlike any deliberate action on my part (ie. not the same as me piloting the vehicle into him or in a cage's case banging my door into his) this is an "act of God" is it not? I'm willing to entertain the notion of splitting the costs 50/50 assuming the amount isn't rediculous. Thoughts? ===== * Love, not time, heals all wounds. * No one is perfect until you fall in love with them. And then when they aren't perfect anymore, love makes them perfect again. * Everyone wants to live on top of the mountain, but all the happiness and growth occurs while you're climbing it * You can not forgive unless you first love. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 12:13:58 2003 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 12:13:50 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: what to do? my bike blew over onto somebody else's At 12:04 PM 11/17/2003, you wrote: >I'm willing to entertain the notion of splitting the costs 50/50 >assuming the amount isn't rediculous. Thoughts? Your bike fell on his, so it is your responsibility. Treat it like any accident. Have him get an estimate and if it is cheaper to pay out of pocket, go that route. Otherwise call each others' insurance companies and watch your rates rise. Too bad a scooter had to dent your fine steed :-/ ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org Support Legislation requiring Voter-Verified Paper Trail for 2004 Elections http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/348035553 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 12:14:00 2003 Reply-To: "Jon Strang" From: "Jon Strang" To: "Wayne Edelen" , Subject: Re: Shit-eating Grin Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 12:13:42 -0500 No way can I touch even a stock 'busa without very significant mods. --jon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne Edelen" To: Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 11:22 AM Subject: Re: Shit-eating Grin > On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, Jon Strang wrote: > > > Nope, I lied. Just looked up some dyno charts. A stock TC-88 and a stock > > B12 have about the same torque at about 3,500 rpm. TC-88 has a bit over 70 > > from 2,200, then the TC-88 edges off, goes under 70 ft-lbs at 4,500 and > > falls on its face at about 5,750 (limiter?). > > > > Bandit is at 64 ft-lbs at 3250, above 70 by 3,600, and stays above 70 ft lbs > > to about 7500 rpm, then starts to edge off pretty linearly to 50 ft lbs at > > about 10,000 rpm. > > > > --jon > > Don't you have a B12, Jon? Have you put it on a dyno to see what it's > making at the wheels? My 'Busa is making 50 ftlbs at the wheel by 2000 > rpm and it peaks at 102 ftlbs at the wheel, making a nice flat 90+ from > 4800-9800rpm. Here is a copy of the chart - > http://www.blueblackbusa.org/081903/wayne.jpg > > Definately makes for a smooth, effortless ride ;-) > > -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 12:16:06 2003 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 12:31:49 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: what to do? my bike blew over onto somebody else's On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, matthew patton wrote: > I'm willing to entertain the notion of splitting the costs 50/50 > assuming the amount isn't rediculous. Thoughts? Just so I'm clear... your bike was parked next to his and it blew over, causing damage to his bike? If that's the case, why do you feel you're not 100% responsible? -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 12:18:49 2003 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 12:34:36 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Shit-eating Grin On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, Jon Strang wrote: > No way can I touch even a stock 'busa without very significant mods. > > --jon I wasn't suggesting that you could, just wanted to see how the 1200cc motor made power. There is no replacement for displacement and the 'Busa motor makes good use of that old axiom, right from the factory :-) -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 12:22:17 2003 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 12:21:02 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: Tom Gimer CC: Julian Halton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: New Rider Question Rusty Chain. What Tom said - grease it an' go! Tom Gimer wrote: > lube that thang and ride it > > --- Julian Halton wrote: > > bought an '02 Yamaha R6 with 3400 miles on it. Got some > > rust on the chain. > > Should I replace the chain or is there a good way to > > remove the rust without > > dis-assembling the bike? > > ===== > Thomas H. Gimer > MURPHY & GIMER, LLC > 7940A Wisconsin Avenue > Bethesda, MD 20814 > 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) > http://www.murphygimer.com > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 12:40:58 2003 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 09:40:50 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: what to do? my bike blew over onto somebody else's To: Wayne Edelen , dc-cycles@XXXXXX perhaps because the "victim" parked too close to his bike? this is a matter for your insurance company, matthew. you pay them to defend and pay claims. put them on notice and allow them to handle it. --- Wayne Edelen wrote: > On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, matthew patton wrote: > > > I'm willing to entertain the notion of splitting the > costs 50/50 > > assuming the amount isn't rediculous. Thoughts? > > Just so I'm clear... your bike was parked next to his and > it blew over, > causing damage to his bike? If that's the case, why do > you feel you're > not 100% responsible? > > -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ > ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 12:48:59 2003 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:04:42 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: what to do? my bike blew over onto somebody else's On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, Tom Gimer wrote: > perhaps because the "victim" parked too close to his bike? Maybe... they were all parked illegally, on the sidewalk. I guess that in your mind, you take your chances in that situation? And how do you know that the victim parked too close and not Matt? :-) -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 12:54:25 2003 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 09:54:21 -0800 (PST) From: Isaac Blanck Subject: Re: Insurance anti-(motorcycle)-discrimination bill re-introduced in Congress To: Mike Bartman , rmeyer9@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX I strongly support this bill. What happens if some BDC hits me and my employer's ins. doesn't cover me while I'm on my bike? Better pray the other driver has coverage, and adequate coverage at that. And while I'm not opposed in principle to charging risky people higher premiums, riding a bike can't be the only risk that's singled out. Kayakers, mountain/rock climbers, people who participate in contact sports (or who have children who do), people w/ a poor diet, and people who are too sedentary are just some of the people who also higher risks. The only sensible way forward is to recognize that nearly everyone has some higher risk factors, and not to inquire into all the potential risk factors. The AMA bill makes a lot of sense. jib --- Mike Bartman wrote: > I'm slightly ambivalent about this. > > While it would be nice to be sure that all insurance > would cover me in the > event of a bike accident, I can also see such a > coverage requirement as > leading to slightly increased premiums for > everyone...and that leading to > calls for anything that would reduce the costs paid > out. Things like > helmets, mandatory leathers, reduced power to weight > ratios, etc.. The > insurance argument is one of the big items that led > to mandatory helmet > laws in the past, so this is a real concern. > > It might be ok if the requirement for coverage was > there, but an allowance > made to charge higher premiums for people at higher > risk. That would make > the coverage available, but eliminate the "I don't > want to pay for their > choices" argument...we'd be paying for our own > choices. > > On the other hand, lots of people do things that > increase their risk of > needing insurance pay outs...such as eating fast > food every day, not > exercising, and acting like idiots in lots of ways. > If we increased > everyone's premiums who did things like that we'd > probably find that most > people fit the definition of "risky behavior" and it > would all average out > anyway. > > Still, it's more likely that people who do things > like skydive, climb > mountains, scuba dive, fly their own planes, and > ride motorcycles, etc. > would be singled out anyway...politics and human > perceptions being what > they are. Facts don't matter much in discussions > like that. > > Hence the ambivalence. > > -- Mike B. > > > At 10:09 AM 11/17/03 -0500, Bob Meyer wrote: > >see: > http://capwiz.com/amacycle/index_frame.dbq?url=http://capwiz.com/amacycle/ho > me/ > > > >The AMA has a form letter on the web site that you > can sign and > automatically email to your senators and > representative. Let's show them > this matters to us: > > > >>Anti-discrimination health insurance bill moving > in U.S. Senate > >> > >>Take action now">www.amadirectlink.com > >>in the AMA Rapid Response Center.Send a message to > your elected officials > >> > >>Oct. 31 ? A bipartisan bill to end health-care > discrimination against > >>motorcyclists and all-terrain vehicle riders has > cleared a key U.S. Senate > >>committee. > >> > >>By a unanimous voice vote, the Senate Health, > Education, Labor and > >>Pensions Committee on Oct. 29 approved S. 423 that > would bar health plans > >>from denying benefits to people injured while > riding motorcycles, ATVs, > >>horses, or engaging in other legal recreational or > transportation > >>activities. > >> > >>"This legislation closes a loophole that allows > insurance companies to > >>deny coverage for someone who is hurt while > snowmobiling, but covers > >>someone who is injured while drinking and driving > their car," said U.S. > >>Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine), who co-authored the > bill. "Americans pay > >>enough for their health insurance that they should > receive the same > >>coverage and benefits whether they break their arm > skiing or from falling > >>down the back stairs." > >> > >>"U.S. Sen. Russ Feingold (D-Wis.), the measure's > other co-author, said: > >>"Millions of people participate in these legal > recreational activities > >>every day. I am thrilled to see this bipartisan > support to close a > >>loophole that may have prevented people from > enjoying these legal > >>activities out of fear they may be refused health > coverage because of it." > >> > >>A similar measure, HR 1749, is being considered in > the U.S. House of > >>Representatives. > >> > >>"We must press on," said AMA Washington > Representative Patrick Holtz. "The > >>Senate bill will move to the floor for > consideration. Meanwhile, the House > >>bill still needs to get out of committee." The > House bill has been > >>referred to the Ways and Means, Energy and > Commerce, and the Education and > >>Workforce committees. > >> > >>In 1996, Congress passed the Health Insurance > Portability and > >>Accountability Act (HIPAA), which prohibits > companies from denying access > >>to employer-sponsored health insurance for > motorcyclists and those who > >>participate in other recreational activities. > However, federal regulators > >>created a loophole that allows the denial of > benefits under various > >>conditions. > >> > >>The AMA, the Motorcycle Riders Foundation and > various state motorcyclists' > >>rights organizations are working to get this > legislation approved. > >> > >>"This is an important step in ensuring that the > original intent of the > >>HIPAA legislation is upheld," said U.S. Rep. Scott > McInnis (R-Colo.), who > >>is on the Ways and Means committee. "I look > forward to working with my > >>colleagues to see this important clarification > through." > >> > >>U.S. Rep. Ted Strickland (D-Ohio), who sits on the > Energy and Commerce > >>committee, saw the Senate move as a hopeful sign > for the House > >>legislation. > >> > >>"Now that this important bill has taken a major > step through the Senate, I > >>hope the House leadership will finally move > forward on this issue," > >>Strickland said. "This legislation is a bipartisan > effort to end the > >>discriminatory practice of denying benefits to > millions of Americans who > >>participate in recreational sports." > >> > >>)B© 2003, American Motorcyclist Association > > > > > >Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 > >'01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" > >'92 ST1100, "red STag" > >'02 919, "still looking for a name" > > > >A steady job and a wife have ruined more good > bikers.... > > > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 12:58:32 2003 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 09:58:29 -0800 (PST) From: Isaac Blanck Subject: Re: what to do? my bike blew over onto somebody else's To: Wayne Edelen , dc-cycles@XXXXXX if both bikes were legally parked, i would imagine you're on the hook; if a bus or semi blew over and squashed my bike, you can bet i'd be looking to the owner to cover the whole thing; having said that, i agree w/ whomever said that this is what ins. companies are for; i'd let them know asap; jib --- Wayne Edelen wrote: > On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, Tom Gimer wrote: > > > perhaps because the "victim" parked too close to > his bike? > > Maybe... they were all parked illegally, on the > sidewalk. I guess that in > your mind, you take your chances in that situation? > And how do you know > that the victim parked too close and not Matt? :-) > > -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 13:03:26 2003 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:03:17 -0800 (PST) From: matthew patton Subject: Re: what to do? my bike blew over onto somebody else's To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX well, "illegally" is not necessarily the case. The FD/PD allow us to park there and have done so for years. We also have the permission (tacit perhaps) of the property owner to park there - a wrecker yard. It's not a side-walk really, just a decrepit slab of concrete. I arrived after the scooter so arguably it was me that parked too close but there is but 2 ft if not normally half that between bikes every single day. This is normal and it's the nature of the parking spot. The point of raising the question was whether I was indeed culpable or not since there was no direct involvment. Tom weighed in and said yes. So, the guy is going to get himself a quote. On a related note, do insureres look at the simple presence of a claim or do they only look at the payout amounts when factoring in raising one's rates? Hypothetically if I were to put my own claim in over this same incident is that 1 claim or 2 claims on record? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 13:23:31 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: Mike Bartman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Insurance anti-(motorcycle)-discrimination bill re-introduced in Congress Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:23:22 -0500 > From: Mike Bartman > Date: 2003/11/17 Mon AM 11:27:46 EST > To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Insurance anti-(motorcycle)-discrimination bill > re-introduced in Congress > > I'm slightly ambivalent about this. > > While it would be nice to be sure that all insurance would cover me in the > event of a bike accident, I can also see such a coverage requirement as > leading to slightly increased premiums for everyone...and that leading to > calls for anything that would reduce the costs paid out. Things like > helmets, mandatory leathers, reduced power to weight ratios, etc.. The > insurance argument is one of the big items that led to mandatory helmet > laws in the past, so this is a real concern. > > It might be ok if the requirement for coverage was there, but an allowance > made to charge higher premiums for people at higher risk. That would make > the coverage available, but eliminate the "I don't want to pay for their > choices" argument...we'd be paying for our own choices. > > On the other hand, lots of people do things that increase their risk of > needing insurance pay outs...such as eating fast food every day, not > exercising, and acting like idiots in lots of ways. If we increased > everyone's premiums who did things like that we'd probably find that most > people fit the definition of "risky behavior" and it would all average out > anyway. > I suppose if premiums were really related to risk I might buy that argument, but they're not. Any policy that covers injuries incurred while driving drunk, but not while horseback riding or off-road bicycling, isn't risk based. Besides, the whole concept of group insurance is that the risk is averaged, and spread over a relatively large pool of insured. Some will never make a claim, others will be in an accident, and still others will have 6 children, 3 emergency room visits for the flu, a heart attack and an embolism, and need mental health treatment. If I'm the guy who never makes a claim, I don't get a rate reduction because of it. So I shouldn't pay more because I ride a motorcycle and "might" have an accident. By the risk based rate criteria, women of child bearing age should pay more than older women or men. Oveweight people should pay more than thin people. You'd have to get your cholesterol checked before getting a rate quote, etc., etc. > Still, it's more likely that people who do things like skydive, climb > mountains, scuba dive, fly their own planes, and ride motorcycles, etc. > would be singled out anyway...politics and human perceptions being what > they are. Facts don't matter much in discussions like that. They mattered once. Congress already passed a law that supposedly banned this kind of discrimination in employer provided health plans, and then the Executive branch went and wrote rules which turned the whole concept on it's head, implicitly legalizing discimination. If congress passed it once, I think they can pass it again. Especially if they know people are paying attention. Bob From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 13:29:01 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: Tom Gimer , Wayne Edelen , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: what to do? my bike blew over onto somebody else's Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:28:52 -0500 > > From: Tom Gimer > Date: 2003/11/17 Mon PM 12:40:50 EST > To: Wayne Edelen , dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: what to do? my bike blew over onto somebody else's > > perhaps because the "victim" parked too close to his bike? > > this is a matter for your insurance company, matthew. you > pay them to defend and pay claims. put them on notice and > allow them to handle it. Defend? That's a joke. These days they'll just pay and raise your rates for the next 5 years to make it up. It costs WAY too much to defend a minor claim. Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" '92 ST1100, "red STag" '02 919, "still looking for a name" A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers.... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 13:34:04 2003 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:33:46 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Re: what to do? my bike blew over onto somebody else's To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX, Wayne Edelen , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Bob Meyer wrote: > > > > > From: Tom Gimer > > Date: 2003/11/17 Mon PM 12:40:50 EST > > To: Wayne Edelen , > dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > Subject: Re: what to do? my bike blew over onto > somebody else's > > > > perhaps because the "victim" parked too close to his > bike? > > > > this is a matter for your insurance company, matthew. > you > > pay them to defend and pay claims. put them on notice > and > > allow them to handle it. > > Defend? That's a joke. These days they'll just pay and > raise your rates for the next 5 years to make it up. It > costs WAY too much to defend a minor claim. don't be so sure. under what coverage do you presume this claim will be paid? you need to answer this question before you can even argue that matthew's rates can be affected. -- tg ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 13:38:06 2003 From: "Jim McGonigle" To: Subject: RE: what to do? my bike blew over onto somebody else's Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:37:52 -0500 In a perfect world that would be the case. Personally, if the scooter damage is only a few hundred I would pay it (its your fault) and be done with it. Insurance is only going to cost you more money and more headaches unless you are luckier than the rest of us. IMHO, -Jim -----Original Message----- From: Tom Gimer [mailto:t_gimer@XXXXXX] Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 12:41 PM To: Wayne Edelen; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: what to do? my bike blew over onto somebody else's perhaps because the "victim" parked too close to his bike? this is a matter for your insurance company, matthew. you pay them to defend and pay claims. put them on notice and allow them to handle it. --- Wayne Edelen wrote: > On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, matthew patton wrote: > > > I'm willing to entertain the notion of splitting the > costs 50/50 > > assuming the amount isn't rediculous. Thoughts? > > Just so I'm clear... your bike was parked next to his and > it blew over, > causing damage to his bike? If that's the case, why do > you feel you're > not 100% responsible? > > -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ > ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 14:05:54 2003 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:05:51 -0800 (PST) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: what to do? my bike blew over onto somebody else's To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Don't be so sure of this. Of course it might be different, but in the case of home owners insurance if a tree in my yard destroys my neighbors house, THEIR insurance pays the damage, not mine. Glenn --- Troutman wrote: > At 12:04 PM 11/17/2003, you wrote: > >I'm willing to entertain the notion of splitting > the costs 50/50 > >assuming the amount isn't rediculous. Thoughts? > > Your bike fell on his, so it is your responsibility. > Treat it like any > accident. Have him get an estimate and if it is > cheaper to pay out of > pocket, go that route. Otherwise call each others' > insurance companies and > watch your rates rise. > > Too bad a scooter had to dent your fine steed :-/ > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 14:14:39 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: Tom Gimer , Wayne Edelen , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: what to do? my bike blew over onto somebody else's Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 14:14:30 -0500 > > From: Tom Gimer > > --- Bob Meyer wrote: > > > > Defend? That's a joke. These days they'll just pay and > > raise your rates for the next 5 years to make it up. It > > costs WAY too much to defend a minor claim. > > don't be so sure. > > under what coverage do you presume this claim will be paid? > you need to answer this question before you can even argue > that matthew's rates can be affected. OK, you're correct about the rate part. Depending on how the claim is covered, it might or might not result in a rate increase. I still maintain that the concept of an insurance company "defending" it's policy holder on such a small claim is fantasy. It's far cheaper to just write a check than to even investigate something like this. Only when it's going to cost the insurance company substanial amounts of money will they bother defending you. Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" '92 ST1100, "red STag" '02 919, "still looking for a name" A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers.... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 14:30:06 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: Re: what to do? my bike blew over onto somebody else's Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 14:29:03 -0500 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec790362a3b0719430b29d01c4ea22a0b1e4350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c > In a perfect world that would be the case. Personally, if the scooter > damage is only a few hundred I would pay it (its your fault) and be done > with it. Insurance is only going to cost you more money and more > headaches unless you are luckier than the rest of us. [Dave] I wouldn't be surprised if this was covered under comprehensive, not collision. There was no pilot induced collision, it was, in fact, an accident as many incidents like impacting road debris and the like. Regardless, for me, if it was determined he was on the hook, I'd at least put $250 towards it as a deductibe coverage if his insurance was responsible... If it was only a couple hundred to begin with, or several hundred, I'd probably offer to pay... If I could keep insurance companies not involved, I would (in this case, with no injury). From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 14:34:03 2003 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 14:31:16 -0500 To: Troutman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: what to do? my bike blew over onto somebody else's At 12:13 PM 11/17/03 -0500, Troutman wrote: >At 12:04 PM 11/17/2003, you wrote: >>I'm willing to entertain the notion of splitting the costs 50/50 >>assuming the amount isn't rediculous. Thoughts? > >Your bike fell on his, so it is your responsibility. I wouldn't say it was that simple. Who parked last? If it was the scooter, then I'd say the scooter owner is liable for the damage to his own ride...he parked too close to an unsteady bike on a windy day. The bike owner had no control over the situation, so why should it be his fault? If it was the bike that parked last, then he's probably liable...he parked his unsteady bike too close to the scooter on a windy day and the scooter owner had no ability to prevent the occurrence. Was the bike defective in any way that was known to the owner (i.e. faulty side/center stand)...in short, was the owner of the bike negligent or not? If not, then I don't see why he should be liable for any damages. He did nothing wrong. If he was negligent, then he should be liable for failing to do what he should have done. We don't even know for sure that it was the wind (though that does seem likely). It could have been some passer-by who bumped the bike over, in which case the liability belongs to them (fat chance you will find them though). The bike owner is no more liable than the owner of a rock garden is when someone tosses one of his rocks through a neighboring window in that case. Sometimes shit happens and it isn't anyone's fault, or at least not anyone you can locate. Won't stop some people from trying to blame another handy person in order to collect damages though. How it will likely end up if it went to court I can't say...an experienced lawyer probably could though. You might also get an answer from your own insurance company if you called them. They should be well up on who usually pays in situations like this, even if it's too small an amount to bother them with. Or you could just examine your own ethics and decide how you think it should be handled. Talk to the other owner and see if he/she agrees. If so, settle it and move on. Most people have a pretty good idea about what they are responsible for and what they aren't...though sometimes they don't like that answer and try to wiggle out of it. That's when the courts can get involved. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 14:37:28 2003 Subject: RE: what to do? my bike blew over onto somebody else's Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 14:37:06 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: Be careful in how much information you disclose. My wife's bike was backed into in our complex's parking lot, and the person was nice enough to leave a note. When he asked how we wanted to proceed (he didn't want to claim the accident, for fear of increasing his insurance rates), we mentioned the deductible our insurance would charge us. He paid us on the spot for the deductible. Then, in a fit of misplaced honesty, when I told our insurance company about the accident, I also said that the person involved had partially paid us for the damage. The insurance company disqualified our claim based on that verbal information. So, do the right thing, but be careful about involving his/your insurance company... Robert Verde -----Original Message----- From: Dave Yates [mailto:Dave@XXXXXX] Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 2:29 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: what to do? my bike blew over onto somebody else's [Dave] I wouldn't be surprised if this was covered under comprehensive, not collision. There was no pilot induced collision, it was, in fact, an accident as many incidents like impacting road debris and the like. Regardless, for me, if it was determined he was on the hook, I'd at least put $250 towards it as a deductibe coverage if his insurance was responsible... If it was only a couple hundred to begin with, or several hundred, I'd probably offer to pay... If I could keep insurance companies not involved, I would (in this case, with no injury). From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 14:37:40 2003 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 14:38:13 -0500 To: Glenn Dysart , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: what to do? my bike blew over onto somebody else's At 11:05 AM 11/17/03 -0800, Glenn Dysart wrote: >Don't be so sure of this. Of course it might be >different, but in the case of home owners insurance if >a tree in my yard destroys my neighbors house, THEIR >insurance pays the damage, not mine. Yes, but then their insurance company will try to collect from you...and your insurance company will pay for it. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 14:39:46 2003 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:39:41 -0800 (PST) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: what to do? my bike blew over onto somebody else's To: Mike Bartman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX They may try and collect but that will likely be as far as it goes as it becomes the responsibility of the property owner it fell on, not from where it came from. Glenn --- Mike Bartman wrote: > > Yes, but then their insurance company will try to > collect from you...and > your insurance company will pay for it. > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 16:20:31 2003 From: Jason Picton To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: what to do? my bike blew over onto somebody else's Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 16:20:11 -0500 I agree with Tom on whether Matt or not is totally responsible.... If the guy who owns the scooter parked too close, it actually could be HIS fault not Matt's. Some places will ticket you if you park more than one motorvehicle (cycle/scooter) to a parking space. If Matt was legally parked and the scooter squeaked in, he could be on his own... However, if this is a free space where everyone crams in a spall space, I would work something out with the scooter owner..... Jason -----Original Message----- From: Tom Gimer [mailto:t_gimer@XXXXXX] Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 12:41 PM To: Wayne Edelen; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: what to do? my bike blew over onto somebody else's perhaps because the "victim" parked too close to his bike? this is a matter for your insurance company, matthew. you pay them to defend and pay claims. put them on notice and allow them to handle it. --- Wayne Edelen wrote: > On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, matthew patton wrote: > > > I'm willing to entertain the notion of splitting the > costs 50/50 > > assuming the amount isn't rediculous. Thoughts? > > Just so I'm clear... your bike was parked next to his and > it blew over, > causing damage to his bike? If that's the case, why do > you feel you're > not 100% responsible? > > -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ > ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 17:12:46 2003 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 14:12:39 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Fog City To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Carl Schelin wrote: > Just a quick note. After all the recommendations for the > Fog City shield, > I happened to be down at Morton's and picked up one. > > I put it on my shield last night after really cleaning > it. > > When I put my helmet on this morning I was rather > surprised that there was > _no_ fog on the visor. Out of habit, I lifted it a couple > of times at the > stop signs but by the time I got to the light on Dale > Blvd, I left it > down. > > After getting on the freeway, I even closed the vents and > then _tried_ to > fog up the visor with no luck. I was able to fog up the > shield past the > edges of the Fog City shield so I know it's in a > situation where the > shield would have fogged up if it wasn't for the Fog City > shield. > > When I got here, I noticed a little rippling at the > bottom of the visor. > When I checked, it was a layer of water, presumably vapor > from breathing. > There was _no_ other distortion of vision, everything was > nice and clear. > There was a little condensation on the outside from the > fog but a quick > finger wipe or turn of the head eliminated that. > > As far as I'm concerned with the first use, it gets top > scores. Next check > is longevity and how well it takes to cleaning. > > Thanks again for the recommendations. > > Carl my experience with the fog city shields is that they get dirty, scratch and become disattached easily. additionally, if you're attaching one to a tinted shield, you'll be so damn pleasantly surprised when you finally STOP using the fog city because your vision improves tenfold. for me it amounted to a reluctant $16/yr (winter) investment until i said F-it. i'm no worse for wear without the POS. -- tg ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 17:14:15 2003 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 17:14:01 -0500 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: omni@XXXXXX, mike@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: what to do? my bike blew over onto somebody else's X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 In a message dated 11/17/2003 2:31:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, omni@XXXXXX writes: > > > At 12:13 PM 11/17/03 -0500, Troutman wrote: > >At 12:04 PM 11/17/2003, you wrote: > We don't even know for sure that it was the wind (though that does seem > likely). It could have been some passer-by who bumped the bike over, in > which case the liability belongs to them (fat chance you will find them > though). Or, did anyone entertain the notion that it was the scooter owner himself that knocked the bike over. Afterall, if they were parked that close together, he could have easily bumped it while getting on or off of his scooter and caused it to fall. Scooter From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 17:18:57 2003 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 14:18:50 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: what to do? my bike blew over onto somebody else's To: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX, omni@XXXXXX, mike@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX yet another reason to let your insurer tell the little pansy-assed scooter pilot to go fuck himself. they're good at it; and besides, your premium pays for their enhanced social skills. --- ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: > In a message dated 11/17/2003 2:31:16 PM Eastern Standard > Time, omni@XXXXXX writes: > > > > > > > At 12:13 PM 11/17/03 -0500, Troutman wrote: > > >At 12:04 PM 11/17/2003, you wrote: > > > > > We don't even know for sure that it was the wind > (though that does seem > > likely). It could have been some passer-by who bumped > the bike over, in > > which case the liability belongs to them (fat chance > you will find them > > though). > > Or, did anyone entertain the notion that it was the > scooter owner himself that knocked the bike over. > Afterall, if they were parked that close together, he > could have easily bumped it while getting on or off of > his scooter and caused it to fall. > > Scooter > ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 18:09:28 2003 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 15:09:19 -0800 (PST) From: matthew patton Subject: RE: what to do? my bike blew over onto somebody else's To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX oh the saga continues. He's a nice chap, actually. Talked to him before this ever happened a couple times. He's from Italy as I recall. Military-exchange if you will. Sadly he bought it at Coleman's in Arlington and that is where it is now where he intended to have it fixed by them. Coleman's is holding the part numbers hostage and won't divulge them for me/him to find a better price. They want $330 for the plastic and $130 for labor. He only has liability and his insurer said to go pound sand. I asked him for his thoughts and he said let's split it 50/50. I'll take that. I told him I'd try to find a much more reasonable price on that part and he won't be back till Friday and apparently doesn't mind the bike sitting for a while. I briefly informed him of what the DC-riding community thinks of Coleman's. So anyhow the only Honda reps I know of in the Tyson's "area" with decent to good reps are Manassas Honda, MFI and Leesburg Motors. Anyone got another lead? Somewhere near the Pentagon also is an option since that's where he and I work. Having stripped and worked on scooters before I could probaby do the deed myself but I doubt he'd go for that. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 20:13:19 2003 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 17:13:16 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Fog City To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Tom Gimer wrote: > --- Carl Schelin wrote: > > Thanks again for the recommendations. > > > > Carl > > my experience with the fog city shields is that they get > dirty, scratch and become disattached easily. > I don't know about the scratching just yet. I clean the shield now with a tissue so I expect that if I continue I shouldn't have much of a problem. That'll take care of the dirty problem, at least until it's scratched up enough to punt. I'll find out about detached later. > additionally, if you're attaching one to a tinted shield, > you'll be so damn pleasantly surprised when you finally > STOP using the fog city because your vision improves > tenfold. > Yep, I noticed tonight that everything was a little smudged looking. I expect a little weirdness in vision, in fact it says in the instructions that night time riding might show a slight double image. > for me it amounted to a reluctant $16/yr (winter) > investment until i said F-it. i'm no worse for wear > without the POS. > And I expect it to just last the winter before I don't worry about it. In the warmer months I wear a different helmet :-) > > -- > tg > Thanks, Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 20:27:06 2003 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 17:27:03 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Fog City To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- adamme1@XXXXXX wrote: > > > > From: Carl Schelin > > Date: 2003/11/17 Mon AM 10:02:50 EST > > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > Subject: Fog City > > Carl, > > I've had a Fog City shield on my Shoei FF for over 4 years and it's > working like new. > Thanks. What's your style of helmet care/wearing? I mean, do you swap out shields for the different seasons? Tissues for cleaning? Long trips? Ride all winter? In the rain? The problem is that no one rides like me (I hope ;-) so unless we're similar in helmet care, mine may last longer or not. But thanks for the data point. > cheers, > -aki > Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 20:36:30 2003 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 17:36:27 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Fog City To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 07:02 AM 11/17/03 -0800, Carl Schelin wrote about Fog City: > > >As far as I'm concerned with the first use, it gets top scores. Next > check > >is longevity and how well it takes to cleaning. > > I hear that you should really avoid sneezing in your helmet with one of > those. Other than that, everything anyone has said about them here, or > elsewhere is good. I'm going to get one I think. Fogging is a real > problem these days. > I imagine that's true regardless of the shield you use. I imagine it's a problem in the shuttle ;-) > -- Mike B. > Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 20:51:40 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: Re: what to do? my bike blew over onto somebody else's Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 20:50:33 -0500 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79f3000f44d543eefad09190fd9ee1a097350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Gimer clears the air... > yet another reason to let your insurer tell the little > pansy-assed scooter pilot to go fuck himself. they're good > at it; and besides, your premium pays for their enhanced > social skills. [Dave] hmm.... "Dude! Your Ninja just fell on my Vespa!" me: "You stupid mother fucker! It would've hit the pavement if it wasn't for your piece of shit scooter you dumb shit." To think I could avoid this faux paus by calling my insurance... Neato. Dave From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 21:00:47 2003 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 18:00:44 -0800 (PST) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: RE: what to do? my bike blew over onto somebody else's To: matthew patton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Let me say it once again "Fuck Colemans". Is the bike a Honda? Go here http://www.ronayers.com click on the parts fiche (hopefully the bike you are looking for is listed). And if you don't like Ron Ayers prices go to http://www.servicehonda.com/ they usually have the best Honda parts prices. Glenn --- matthew patton wrote: Sadly he bought it at Coleman's in > Arlington and that is where it is now where he > intended to have it > fixed by them. Coleman's is holding the part numbers > hostage and won't > divulge them for me/him to find a better price. They > want $330 for the > plastic and $130 for labor __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 21:06:26 2003 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 21:09:26 -0500 From: Steve Price To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: fog city shields I've been using fog city shields since they came out. I've had one on my Arai now for 7 years finally wore it out. I wear them year round. I have one on my clear and dark smoke shield. I ride in the mountains in Virginia almost every weekend there is a little distortion at night and after awhile on Arai shields going on and off the helmet they have a tendency to slide a bit but wouldn't ride with out one. Steve From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 17 22:21:57 2003 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 19:21:47 -0800 (PST) From: matthew patton Subject: Re: Fog City To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I tried them 2 years ago and also last year and absolutely hated them. Why? Because the bloody thing would "condense" (not fog) something fierce on the surface inside the helmet rendering it like I was trying to see under water - all bleary. But, I tried them again his fall and what do you know, it did the same thing not 30 minutes after unwrapping it out of the package and attempting to ride. EXCEPT this time before I threw it out in disgust I cleaned it with Windex (and a paper towel) but good. Haven't had a problem with it since and I've had it in all weather for hours on end. Moral of the story for me is to clean off whatever c**p they put on the surface before using. Oh and a soft cloth is probably better than a paper towel... __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 18 00:00:09 2003 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 21:00:05 -0800 (PST) From: Corbett B Subject: Re: Taking Care To: Julian Halton , Mark Kitchell , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Julian- Happy to have you join the ranks of the motorcycling community. Your adventures are only beginning. May you have many miles of smiles and keep the shiny side up. -Corbett (a certain BMW riding Realtor) --- Julian Halton wrote: > The shorts: > - took the MSF course (thanks a million Bill et al. > for teaching good > habits right off!) > - have put 2000 miles on the bike > - won't have even one drink > - Look at every vehicle on the road, imagine the > worst thing possible the > driver could do and figure a way out. (Sad to say > this has already happened > about eight times) > - ride with guys with experience > - Most importantly: know myself, know the bike, know > my limits and know my > enemies > - Preparation, preparation, preparation > > For those of you who know a certain BMW riding > realtor- I owe him a debt of > thanks for introducing me to one of the top five > best things I have done in > 32 years of existence. Looking forward to a track > day or two next year. > ===== -Corbett '99 BMW K1200RS AMA Member BMW Motorcycle Owners Association Member __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 18 05:48:58 2003 From: "stephen" To: "matthew patton" , Subject: RE: what to do? my bike blew over onto somebody else's Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 05:47:24 -0500 Your neighbour's tree that was "parked" too close to your house falls on it during a hurricane. Who's insurance company makes the payment? Yours. Can you make a claim against him for owning a tree on his property that fell onto yours? Maybe! And that's why lawyers in America are rich and the rest of us slobs pay through the nose for property insurance and health care and dental care and should I go on? IMO, it is irrelevant _what_ fell on the guy's bike, it was an act of nature. Maybe your bike actually protected his bike from falling into someone else's bike? Who witnessed it? Were it me, as an act of good nature (because I am good natured) I would offer to split the cost of the part(s) with said dude (mine AND his) and do the work on both myself if he wasn't willing to do the work on his. If he wouldn't let me do the work (never a bad time for Dude to learn something new) to fix it. If he didn't like that, I'd suggest he cry into someone else's beer. At that point, he might as well sue the owner of the ground for letting him park there and allowing the wind to blow on it. Sheesh. The guy obviously has no brain to speak of or he wouldn't have taken it to Coleman's. That's like asking the king to tax you some more. If there were some tangible sort of negligence on someone's behalf, I can see going after an individual or the insurance company for a claim. If not, I think it's a big waste of everyone's time. If I had a job, I'd probably give the guy somewhere between $100 and $250 depending on how rich. If it happened today, I'd look at him and shrug .. maybe offer to whittle him a new piece out of wood over the next few weeks while I wait for my numbers (i.e. a job) to come in. Still unemployed. :-( Stephen From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 18 08:16:55 2003 Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:16:50 -0500 From: "Chris Norloff" Reply-To: To: "List-dc cycles" Subject: Pitchfork One Lucky Driver's Close Call Pitchfork Crashes Through Hill Aide's Windshield http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A54188-2003Nov17.html I suppose this is one of those one-in-a-million things, but it also could be out of a Stephen King horror movie. I suppose the only thing a motorcyclist could do with oncoming debris would be to lie forward on the tank and try to stay upright. Chris Norloff From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 18 09:03:22 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Tom Gimer , Wayne Edelen , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: Re: what to do? my bike blew over onto somebody else's Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 09:03:25 -0500 I agree with TOM 100%. If there is a good excuse your insurance company will know what it is :). I got rear ended by some guy when I stopped for a emergency vehicle. I was stopped for like 15 seconds before the guy not paying attention to me rammed into me. The insurance company said it was 25% of my fault cause I stopped in the middle of my lane. They always have a good excuse. In my case their excuse didn't work cause I just submited a claim to my ins. company and they fought and won my claim. Rob On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 09:40:50 -0800 (PST), Tom Gimer wrote > perhaps because the "victim" parked too close to his bike? > > this is a matter for your insurance company, matthew. you > pay them to defend and pay claims. put them on notice and > allow them to handle it. > > --- Wayne Edelen wrote: > > On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, matthew patton wrote: > > > > > I'm willing to entertain the notion of splitting the > > costs 50/50 > > > assuming the amount isn't rediculous. Thoughts? > > > > Just so I'm clear... your bike was parked next to his and > > it blew over, > > causing damage to his bike? If that's the case, why do > > you feel you're > > not 100% responsible? > > > > -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ > > > > ===== > Thomas H. Gimer > MURPHY & GIMER, LLC > 7940A Wisconsin Avenue > Bethesda, MD 20814 > 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) > http://www.murphygimer.com > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 18 09:07:49 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Isaac Blanck , Mike Bartman , rmeyer9@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Insurance anti-(motorcycle)-discrimination bill re-introduced in Congress Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 09:07:47 -0500 HAHA, so people who sit around and don't engage in activities are at more risk. I think Isaac just named about every possible person in the world is at RISK. So if you engage in physical activity your more risky and if you don't engage in physical activity you also more at risk. On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 09:54:21 -0800 (PST), Isaac Blanck wrote > people who are too sedentary are just some of the > people who also higher risks. -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 18 09:10:41 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: matthew patton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: Re: what to do? my bike blew over onto somebody else's Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 09:10:48 -0500 The insurance company can come up with lots of reasons to raise your rates. Claims, bad credit or negative changes in credit (and you can bet if your credit gets better it won't go down) Rob On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:03:17 -0800 (PST), matthew patton wrote > On a related note, do insureres look at the simple presence of a > claim or do they only look at the payout amounts when factoring in raising > one's rates? Hypothetically if I were to put my own claim in over > this same incident is that 1 claim or 2 claims on record? > -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 18 09:17:50 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX, Tom Gimer , Wayne Edelen , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: what to do? my bike blew over onto somebody else's Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 09:17:56 -0500 Nope my insurance company defended my for 1600 bux and won my claim. I had a 1600 dollar accident where someone rear ended me, whic you would think is my fault. They wanted to cut me a check for like 900 bux. So I went to my company get a check for 1100 bux (minus 500 deductable). 4 weeks later I got a check for my 500 bux back. My insurance company got the full 1600 bux back for the other drivers company. When in doubt if you have collision on your company just let then handle it and go after the other company. Rob On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:28:52 -0500, Bob Meyer wrote > > > > From: Tom Gimer > > Date: 2003/11/17 Mon PM 12:40:50 EST > > To: Wayne Edelen , dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > Subject: Re: what to do? my bike blew over onto somebody else's > > > > perhaps because the "victim" parked too close to his bike? > > > > this is a matter for your insurance company, matthew. you > > pay them to defend and pay claims. put them on notice and > > allow them to handle it. > > Defend? That's a joke. These days they'll just pay and raise your > rates for the next 5 years to make it up. It costs WAY too much to > defend a minor claim. > > Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 > '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" > '92 ST1100, "red STag" > '02 919, "still looking for a name" > > A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers.... -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 18 09:20:59 2003 From: "Terry Pollard" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: dc-cycles digest for 11/17/03 Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 09:19:45 -0500 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 15:09:19 -0800 (PST) From: matthew patton Subject: RE: what to do? my bike blew over onto somebody else's To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX oh the saga continues. He's a nice chap, actually. Talked to him before this ever happened a couple times. He's from Italy as I recall. Military-exchange if you will. Sadly he bought it at Coleman's in Arlington and that is where it is now where he intended to have it fixed by them. Coleman's is holding the part numbers hostage and won't divulge them for me/him to find a better price. They want $330 for the plastic and $130 for labor. He only has liability and his insurer said to go pound sand. I asked him for his thoughts and he said let's split it 50/50. I'll take that. I told him I'd try to find a much more reasonable price on that part and he won't be back till Friday and apparently doesn't mind the bike sitting for a while. I briefly informed him of what the DC-riding community thinks of Coleman's. So anyhow the only Honda reps I know of in the Tyson's "area" with decent to good reps are Manassas Honda, MFI and Leesburg Motors. Anyone got another lead? Somewhere near the Pentagon also is an option since that's where he and I work. Having stripped and worked on scooters before I could probaby do the deed myself but I doubt he'd go for that. Colemans does suck. I have a close friend that I call often to make sure I am not being raped on prices. I was at C's the other day purchasing some fork seals. Honda sug'd retail was $21.04 and C was charging over $30.00. I will shop elsewhere. Speaking of which, I bought over $600.00 worth of riding gear from a particuliar shop and when I called them to mount a tire I bought from Ronayaers.com, they wanted to charge me $80.00 for the priveledge. I took it to Keys Racing for $35.00 As far as the scooter...Ebay! or online shopping will save Butt-loads. If this fine chap won't let you do the work, offer to do it with him. Not many enthusiasts will turn down a good meal and some wrench time with another bi-wheeler. I have more time than I know what to do with...get me the make/model/ and I'll shop for you. Anytime, Kualityguy _________________________________________________________________ MSN Messenger with backgrounds, emoticons and more. http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/cdp_customize From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 18 09:22:53 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: , "List-dc cycles" Subject: Re: Pitchfork Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 09:22:08 -0500 A harrowing escape not doubt, but to me the focus should be heaping opprobrium on the truck driver, who, naturally, didn't stop. Prolly didn't even know it happened. What's really infuriating about this is that it's another dumb f^ck truck driver with an unsecured load. Endemic around here if all the detritus on the roads is any guide. I was teaching MSF this summer at Loudoun and the students and I witnesses a wheelbarrow fall off a landscaper's truck, right into the middle of Rt. 7. Apropos of Exercise 16, the swerve...... Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Norloff" > > One Lucky Driver's Close Call > Pitchfork Crashes Through Hill Aide's Windshield > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A54188-2003Nov17.html > > I suppose this is one of those one-in-a-million things, but it also could be out of a Stephen King horror movie. I suppose the only thing a motorcyclist could do with oncoming debris would be to lie forward on the tank and try to stay upright. > > Chris Norloff > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 18 09:52:10 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: "List-dc cycles" Subject: Re: Pitchfork Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 9:52:00 -0500 > > From: "Chris Norloff" > Date: 2003/11/18 Tue AM 08:16:50 EST > To: "List-dc cycles" > Subject: Pitchfork > > > One Lucky Driver's Close Call > Pitchfork Crashes Through Hill Aide's Windshield > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A54188-2003Nov17.html > It also points out the absolute lack of training in emergency maneuvering that American drivers get. He apparently made no effort to swerve and avoid the damn thing. Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" '92 ST1100, "red STag" '02 919, "still looking for a name" A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers.... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 18 10:35:49 2003 Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:34:29 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: Paul Wilson CC: cnorloff@XXXXXX, List-dc cycles Subject: Re: Pitchfork Indeed, always avoid following any kind of truck or commercial vehicle. I've seen enough garden.construction tools scattered along I-395 (my normal commute route) to make any Harry Homeowner a happy camper. And those big trucks, like the idiot trucker who had his brake drums ground way below spec. He slams on the brakes and the drum expolded, sending a 17 pound chunk of cast iron thru a car windshield and basically decapitating the passenger. Happened on 495 several years ago. The husband is probably still in therupy after seeing his wife's head splattered all over the interior of the car. Bill Paul Wilson wrote: > A harrowing escape not doubt, but to me the focus should be heaping > opprobrium on the truck driver, who, naturally, didn't stop. Prolly didn't > even know it happened. What's really infuriating about this is that it's > another dumb f^ck truck driver with an unsecured load. Endemic around here > if all the detritus on the roads is any guide. > > I was teaching MSF this summer at Loudoun and the students and I witnesses a > wheelbarrow fall off a landscaper's truck, right into the middle of Rt. 7. > Apropos of Exercise 16, the swerve...... > > Paul in DC > 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris Norloff" > > > > > One Lucky Driver's Close Call > > Pitchfork Crashes Through Hill Aide's Windshield > > > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A54188-2003Nov17.html > > > > I suppose this is one of those one-in-a-million things, but it also could > be out of a Stephen King horror movie. I suppose the only thing a > motorcyclist could do with oncoming debris would be to lie forward on the > tank and try to stay upright. > > > > Chris Norloff > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 18 11:41:10 2003 Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:41:42 -0500 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Fog City At 05:36 PM 11/17/03 -0800, Carl Schelin wrote: >--- Mike Bartman wrote: >> I hear that you should really avoid sneezing in your helmet with one of >> those. > >I imagine that's true regardless of the shield you use. The implication of the person who told me that was that it permanently ruins the Fog City. It's not just a matter of having to clean it. Given how they supposedly work, contamination ruining them makes some sense. Can't say from personal experience, but the guy works at Battleys and has a lot of riding experience. They sell them (the tinted ones anyway), so I can't see why he'd say anything against them if it wasn't true, but he could have his reasons I guess. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 18 13:26:31 2003 Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 13:26:12 -0500 From: Skip CC: List-dc cycles Subject: Re: Pitchfork Chris Norloff wrote: > > > One Lucky Driver's Close Call > Pitchfork Crashes Through Hill Aide's Windshield > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A54188-2003Nov17.html > > I suppose this is one of those one-in-a-million things, but it also could be out of a Stephen King horror movie. I suppose the only thing a motorcyclist could do with oncoming debris would be to lie forward on the tank and try to stay upright. > > Chris Norloff heh... "I've driven [that route] for 13 years and have never seen a flying pitchfork." From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 18 17:07:12 2003 From: Han Park To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Chain tool Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 17:07:15 -0500 I want to replace the chain on my bike. Does anyone have a rivet tool I can borrow for the new chain? Also any recommendations on where to get a chain and sprockets? Thanks. han From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 18 17:17:11 2003 Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 14:16:52 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Chain tool To: Han Park , dc-cycles@XXXXXX fast lane cycles in chantilly always has a good selection of chains and sprockets for sportbikes in stock i have a cheap rivet tool you could borrow, but trust me, it'll be worth your wait to do so for someone with the heavy duty model.... --- Han Park wrote: > I want to replace the chain on my bike. Does anyone > have a rivet tool I > can borrow for the new chain? Also any recommendations > on where to get a > chain and sprockets? Thanks. > > han > ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Nov 18 17:19:02 2003 From: "Laura Roach" To: "Han Park" , Subject: Re: Chain tool Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 17:14:55 -0500 > I want to replace the chain on my bike. Does anyone have a rivet tool I > can borrow for the new chain? Also any recommendations on where to get a > chain and sprockets? Thanks. Email Brian, Han. He can get you the chain and sprockets from Speedwerks (and they are very competitive with pricing). Actually, Speedwerks can get almost anything that you want, including helmets, leathers, yadda yadda yadda. :) His email is roach@XXXXXX Laura From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 07:17:52 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 07:17:44 EST Subject: Re: Fog City To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 11/17/2003 8:13:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, dm_gsxr@XXXXXX writes: > I don't know about the scratching just yet. I clean the shield now with a > tissue so I expect that if I continue I shouldn't have much of a problem. Uh, yea, you will. You should _never_ clean your shield with any kind of paper product, believe it or not the stuff contains lots of (tiny) sticks and twigs that can scratch the hell out of it. Use soft cloth, preferably something made for cleaning glasses (but not containing silicon.) Paper will usually not scratch a good polycarbonate shield, but it will scratch your Fog City. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 09:34:24 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Fog City Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 09:34:29 -0500 You make only clean your face shield with a cloth made from the golden fleece of a sheep that lives on the top of mount olympus. Rob On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 07:17:44 EST, PenguinBiker wrote > In a message dated 11/17/2003 8:13:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, > dm_gsxr@XXXXXX writes: > > > I don't know about the scratching just yet. I clean the shield now with a > > tissue so I expect that if I continue I shouldn't have much of a problem. > > Uh, yea, you will. > You should _never_ clean your shield with any kind of paper product, > believe it or not the stuff contains lots of (tiny) sticks and twigs > that can scratch the hell out of it. Use soft cloth, preferably > something made for cleaning glasses (but not containing silicon.) > Paper will usually not scratch a good polycarbonate shield, but it > will scratch your Fog City. > > John. > PenguinBiker@XXXXXX -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 09:42:13 2003 Subject: Shield Cleaning (was: Fog City) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 09:42:04 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: I prefer to use a small section of chain mail, dipped first in oil and then in sand. Does an excellent job of cleaning all the rust and spatters of... matter from my shield. However, on a more moto topic; I have used a paper towel, soaked in clean water and laid on my visor to soak off the dried bug residue. I don't use it to wipe off, just to keep it damp, a soaking aid I guess you'd say. Then I dry the visor with a soft cloth after rinsing with more water. No scratches to date, outside of the occasional errant rock-in-the-face ones. Anyone used those "polishing towels" sold in auto parts stores, the blue no-lint ones? They look like a nice size to keep under the seat, but I don't know if they'd be suitable for visors. Robert From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 11:41:03 2003 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 08:40:57 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Towing Service To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Well, I rode the Harley in today. I got to the parking spaces and backed in (one car taking 4 spaces to my left and a car parked at the other end taking the last space but nose to the stop sign). Anyway, I thought I was too much in the middle so I turned everything back on and started her up. It started but about 3 seconds later it stopped and the engine light came on. Hmm, so I tried a couple of more times and it failed both times. Ok, so I'll come back when she's cooled down. At 11 I tried again and still no change. Ok, so I called one of the recommended towing services (Hunters Wood in Chantilly) but they don't tow in the rain. Too much chance of an accident. Any ideas for another service? Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 11:43:59 2003 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:43:50 -0500 (EST) From: jdonovan@XXXXXX To: matthew patton cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: what to do? my bike blew over onto somebody else's On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, matthew patton wrote: > I'm willing to entertain the notion of splitting the costs 50/50 > assuming the amount isn't rediculous. Thoughts? the only facts you have given us are: your bike left its state of parking someone later discovered your bike was on top of the other bike Unless there is a witness as to how it happened, this is one of those 'mysterious circumstances' claims. It should become a no-fault claim, i.e. each person pays their own damage, because in the absence of evidence, no fault can be determined. (I'm in Virginia, and know Virgina law better than DC. In VA if the weather was the most significant causal factor in a moving vehicle accident, and the driver(s) exercised 'due care' then the accident is a no-fault) thats the legal side. The good will side is he wants to split the $400is of damage. In an effort not to piss him off and wind up with more than $200 of damage done to your bike some day in the future, pay the man and get a signed release of liability so that his claim ends there. This is a classic case of "its probably not your fault, but it costs less to make the problem go away than fight it" -john From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 11:50:58 2003 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 08:50:50 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Towing Service To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX independent motorcycle transport 301 946-5412 --- Carl Schelin wrote: > Well, I rode the Harley in today. I got to the parking > spaces and backed > in (one car taking 4 spaces to my left and a car parked > at the other end > taking the last space but nose to the stop sign). > > Anyway, I thought I was too much in the middle so I > turned everything back > on and started her up. It started but about 3 seconds > later it stopped and > the engine light came on. > > Hmm, so I tried a couple of more times and it failed both > times. > > Ok, so I'll come back when she's cooled down. > > At 11 I tried again and still no change. > > Ok, so I called one of the recommended towing services > (Hunters Wood in > Chantilly) but they don't tow in the rain. Too much > chance of an accident. > > Any ideas for another service? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 11:58:13 2003 Reply-To: "S. Russell" From: "S. Russell" To: "Carl Schelin" , Subject: Re: Towing Service Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:57:14 -0500 Independant Motorcycle Transport has always been good for me 301-946-5412, he doesn't work with any roadside assistance, he has been burned by them. Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Schelin" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 11:40 AM Subject: Towing Service > Well, I rode the Harley in today. I got to the parking spaces and backed > in (one car taking 4 spaces to my left and a car parked at the other end > taking the last space but nose to the stop sign). > > Anyway, I thought I was too much in the middle so I turned everything back > on and started her up. It started but about 3 seconds later it stopped and > the engine light came on. > > Hmm, so I tried a couple of more times and it failed both times. > > Ok, so I'll come back when she's cooled down. > > At 11 I tried again and still no change. > > Ok, so I called one of the recommended towing services (Hunters Wood in > Chantilly) but they don't tow in the rain. Too much chance of an accident. > > Any ideas for another service? > > Carl > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 12:07:45 2003 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 09:07:32 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Towing Service To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Nope, not available today. Thanks, Carl --- Tom Gimer wrote: > independent motorcycle transport > 301 946-5412 > > --- Carl Schelin wrote: > > Well, I rode the Harley in today. I got to the parking > > spaces and backed > > in (one car taking 4 spaces to my left and a car parked > > at the other end > > taking the last space but nose to the stop sign). > > > > Anyway, I thought I was too much in the middle so I > > turned everything back > > on and started her up. It started but about 3 seconds > > later it stopped and > > the engine light came on. > > > > Hmm, so I tried a couple of more times and it failed both > > times. > > > > Ok, so I'll come back when she's cooled down. > > > > At 11 I tried again and still no change. > > > > Ok, so I called one of the recommended towing services > > (Hunters Wood in > > Chantilly) but they don't tow in the rain. Too much > > chance of an accident. > > > > Any ideas for another service? > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 12:15:23 2003 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 09:15:19 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Towing Service To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX It looks like the only confirmed tow is from the guy I sold my truck to. We'll see what else comes up. Thanks, Carl --- Carl Schelin wrote: > Well, I rode the Harley in today. I got to the parking spaces and backed > in (one car taking 4 spaces to my left and a car parked at the other end > taking the last space but nose to the stop sign). > > Anyway, I thought I was too much in the middle so I turned everything > back > on and started her up. It started but about 3 seconds later it stopped > and > the engine light came on. > > Hmm, so I tried a couple of more times and it failed both times. > > Ok, so I'll come back when she's cooled down. > > At 11 I tried again and still no change. > > Ok, so I called one of the recommended towing services (Hunters Wood in > Chantilly) but they don't tow in the rain. Too much chance of an > accident. > > Any ideas for another service? > > Carl > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 12:38:15 2003 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 09:38:12 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Shit-eating Grin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > You can do some easy mods that get you up around or over > 90 ft/lbs (replacing air filter, exhaust pipes and changing EFI > settings), and some much more expensive things (swapping pistons and > cylinders for larger ones among other things) that take it up closer > to 170 (probably with attendant reductions in reliability and > longevity. To get there though, you are pretty much rebuilding the > engine from the ground up, with modified cases and everything (for > strength). S&S built some 145 ci V-twin engines in that range last > year as a commemorative thing...they aren't planning to mass produce > them though). > Stage 1 kit. Gas mileage went down a couple of mpg. > >falls on its face at about 5,750 (limiter?). > > I hear there is a rev limiter, and that it is somewhere in that range. > Not sure though. Seems to be. I think I hit it when I first got it back from the shop. When you add the Stage 1 kit the redline is adjusted up to 6k. Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 13:34:34 2003 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:36:57 -0500 From: "Steven C. Di Pietro" To: MIG@XXXXXX, DCCycles Subject: Janklow update X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out012.verizon.net from [141.157.12.170] at Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:34:28 -0600 http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/11/18/janklow.ap/index.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 13:53:01 2003 From: "Julian Halton" To: , "matthew patton" Cc: Subject: Re: what to do? my bike blew over onto somebody else's Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:53:03 -0500 Initially I had two thoughts about this subject: - people should take more personal responsibility for their actions in general - the next one was: if someone's bike hit my bike ( someone or something doing something unpleasant) I would want them to rectify it I ran this by an attorney friend and she asked about how close the bikes were...etc. Providing that the bikes were parked an a way that everybody was comfortable with and no one was negligent in how they parked their bike...her response was let the insurance companies sort it out I am not comfortable with insurance companies because my long held idea is that they always want to come out on top. Sure they will take your claim but watch your rate increase the next time you are up for renewal. At the end of the day, we have no way of knowing what happened to the bikes so assuming that one owner did not take any deliberate action to damage the other vehicle, this falls under "no-fault". Talking to her challenged my initial visceral reaction to what happened. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 13:57:26 2003 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:57:12 -0500 From: corey Reply-To: corey To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: maw? X-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - moya.vsreseller.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - dc-cycles.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - egoinc.org has anyone here ordered from motorcycle accessory warehouse? (http://www.mawonline.com/) they've got some great deals on stuff, but their archaic website kinda worries me. ___________________________________________ corey [journal] www.egoinc.org [portfolio] www.blanksky.com [listserv] www.blanksky.com/bikefolk Red meat is not bad for you. Fuzzy green meat is bad for you. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 14:01:32 2003 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:01:29 -0800 (PST) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: maw? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Ewe a can of worms... I've had great luck with them, others have not. YMMV Glenn --- corey wrote: > has anyone here ordered from motorcycle accessory > warehouse? > (http://www.mawonline.com/) they've got some great > deals on stuff, but > their archaic website kinda worries me. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 14:05:54 2003 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:06:42 -0500 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Towing Service At 08:40 AM 11/19/03 -0800, Carl Schelin wrote: >Anyway, I thought I was too much in the middle so I turned everything back >on and started her up. It started but about 3 seconds later it stopped and >the engine light came on. > >Hmm, so I tried a couple of more times and it failed both times. > >Ok, so I'll come back when she's cooled down. > >At 11 I tried again and still no change. That's odd. Any ideas what it might be? The most obvious first guesses (out of gas, wet electrics, clogged fuel filter, etc.) all seem to be mostly ruled out by the specifics of the situation (i.e. it ran fine until shut down, started briefly, won't start at all now). It could still be gas, but it would be a pretty amazing coincidence in timing... Seems likely to be related to your recent service work...but I can't think of anything that would fit the exact description...anybody else? Can you check for the usual suspects (spark and gas)? -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 14:09:30 2003 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:09:23 -0500 From: corey Reply-To: corey To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: maw at bbb X-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - moya.vsreseller.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - dc-cycles.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - egoinc.org answered my own question by digging around on bbb.org. here's what they had to say: "The company has an unsatisfactory record with the Better Business Bureau due to unanswered complaints and a pattern of complaints. Some complainants allege when they make a purchase, the wrong item is shipped and the company does not give refunds for the product or shipping the item back to the company. Other complainants allege products ordered from the website are not what they are stated to be or the price is incorrectly stated on the website. The company was previously located in Colorado Springs, Colorado where the company has an unsatisfactory record with the Bureau in Colorado Springs, due to unanswered complaints and a pattern of complaints regarding wrong items shipped and consumers must pay the freight fee to return the item. As of July 25, 2003 Motorcycle Accessory Warehouse has requested that the Better Business Bureau no longer forward complaint correspondence to their company. The Bureau processed 14 complaints about this company since the firm's BBB file was opened in February of 2003. 14 of those were closed in the last 12 months. These complaints concerned advertising issues, delivery issues, product quality issues, refund or exchange issues, customer service issues and credit or billing issues. Of these complaints, 1 was closed when the company addressed the disputed issues and exhibited a good faith effort to resolve the complaint and 13 were closed with no response from the company. When evaluating complaint information, please consider the company's size and volume of business. The number of complaints filed against the company may not be as important as the type of complaints and how the company handled them." i think i'll be staying away from them... thanks anyway! ___________________________________________ corey [journal] www.egoinc.org [portfolio] www.blanksky.com [listserv] www.blanksky.com/bikefolk Red meat is not bad for you. Fuzzy green meat is bad for you. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 14:14:20 2003 Subject: What does a good helmet cost these days Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:14:17 -0500 From: "Dave Blumgart" To: I've been away from riding since the early 80's, but am considering return to the sport. Today I went looking for a Snell rated full face helmet on the net so I could test ride some bikes. The pricing caused a serious case of WTF?!? Are helmets really $250-300 these days? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 14:26:33 2003 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:26:31 -0800 (PST) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: What does a good helmet cost these days On Wed, 19 Nov 2003, Dave Blumgart wrote: > Are helmets really $250-300 these days? Most of them. A Shoei or Arai (considered top brands) will run you more like $500. Consider HJC helmets, which are Snell certified and generally much cheaper. Icon (a new brand) also has some Snell-certified helmets out which run more like $100 or so. No web links handy just now, sorry -- I'm in the middle of something. I'll see if I can't track down some sites for you, though. Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 14:27:55 2003 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:27:38 -0500 To: From: Troutman Subject: Re: What does a good helmet cost these days *that depends* You really do get what you pay for, in general, with a helmet. Take a $150 HJC full face. To me - they are uncomfortable, scratchy and cheap feeling. But they do the job. I wear a middle class Shoei RF-900. $300 in solid colors, great venting, and they last very well (I am on my second after a RF800). Shoei has $500 custom painted jobs with ultra light materials and extra comfy lining. Whoopity doo. Arais tend to be a lot more expensive than Shoei, but I think they have a more reasonable priced full face now. They don't fit me well in general, so I have my blinders on for Shoei. Go to the shops and try on a variety. It is your single most important piece of gear in terms of comfort and safety, so get what feels right. At 02:14 PM 11/19/2003, Dave Blumgart wrote: >I've been away from riding since the early 80's, but am considering >return to the sport. Today I went looking for a Snell rated full face >helmet on the net so I could test ride some bikes. The pricing caused a >serious case of WTF?!? Are helmets really $250-300 these days? ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org Support Legislation requiring Voter-Verified Paper Trail for 2004 Elections http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/348035553 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 14:29:05 2003 From: "Julian Halton" To: "Dave Blumgart" , Subject: Re: What does a good helmet cost these days Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:29:07 -0500 Top of the line helmets such as Shoei and Arai ( www.helmethouse.com ) can go for as much as six bills. I would recommend looking on ebay for specials. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Blumgart" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 2:14 PM Subject: What does a good helmet cost these days > I've been away from riding since the early 80's, but am considering > return to the sport. Today I went looking for a Snell rated full face > helmet on the net so I could test ride some bikes. The pricing caused a > serious case of WTF?!? Are helmets really $250-300 these days? > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 14:35:12 2003 From: Sunil Doshi Subject: Re: What does a good helmet cost these days Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:35:02 -0500 To: DC Cycles I bought a good HJC (plain white) for $200 a few months ago. Of course, I wanted a $400 Arai. You can certainly pay less than $200, but the old saying comes to mind... "Buy a $50 helmet if your head's worth $50" On Nov 19, 2003, at 2:14 PM, Dave Blumgart wrote: > I've been away from riding since the early 80's, but am considering > return to the sport. Today I went looking for a Snell rated full face > helmet on the net so I could test ride some bikes. The pricing caused > a > serious case of WTF?!? Are helmets really $250-300 these days? > > sunil http://widepipe.org/ride/ '03 Honda Shadow ACE 750 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 14:35:31 2003 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:36:23 -0500 To: "Dave Blumgart" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: What does a good helmet cost these days At 02:14 PM 11/19/03 -0500, Dave Blumgart wrote: >serious case of WTF?!? Are helmets really $250-300 these days? Easily, but you can find DOT and Snell-approved helmets for less. My Harley (HJC) helmet was $152 (on sale at Battley's), is full-face and has both DOT and Snell ratings. Other than a bit of a fogging problem, it's a good helmet. It has lots of vents, but they don't work all that well behind my windshield... YFMV. :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 14:39:28 2003 Subject: So whatever happened to Bell? Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:39:26 -0500 From: "Dave Blumgart" To: Back when I was riding, Bell was considered to the shiznit, so to speak. I paid top dollar ($75, as I recall) for one of the first Bell Stars. But I note that *nobody* in this thread has recommended them. I ask because I've found a site with some reasonably priced snell 2000-approved Bells. Is this yet another case of American quality being overtaken? -----Original Message----- From: corey [mailto:corey@XXXXXX] Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 2:29 PM To: Dave Blumgart Subject: Re: What does a good helmet cost these days I just picked up an HJC CL-14 at coleman powersports for $150. I haven't gotten many miles on it yet, but it's a snell / DOT approved, vented, relatively quiet lid. ---------------------- corey [journal] www.egoinc.org [portfolio] www.blanksky.com [listserv] www.blanksky.com/bikefolk "If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough." - Drop In - Episode 2 ______________________________________________ Wednesday, November 19, 2003, 2:14:17 PM, you wrote: DB> I've been away from riding since the early 80's, but am considering DB> return to the sport. Today I went looking for a Snell rated full DB> face helmet on the net so I could test ride some bikes. The pricing DB> caused a serious case of WTF?!? Are helmets really $250-300 these DB> days? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 14:39:53 2003 Subject: RE: What does a good helmet cost these days Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:39:45 -0600 From: To: -----Original Message----- From: Dave Blumgart [mailto:DBLUMGART@XXXXXX] >Are helmets really $250-300 these days? How much is your head worth? The helmets today are a huge improvement over the ones I had in the 80's. George From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 14:41:03 2003 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:40:58 -0800 (PST) From: Corbett B Subject: Re: What does a good helmet cost these days To: DC Cycles It depends on what your pumpkin is worth, but on average, you should be able to get a good quality full-face helmet for $400 to $450. -Corbett --- Dave Blumgart wrote: > I could test ride some bikes. > The pricing caused a > serious case of WTF?!? Are helmets really $250-300 > these days? > ===== -Corbett '99 BMW K1200RS AMA Member BMW Motorcycle Owners Association Member __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 14:43:11 2003 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:44:04 -0500 To: Troutman , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: What does a good helmet cost these days At 02:27 PM 11/19/03 -0500, Troutman wrote: >*that depends* > >You really do get what you pay for, in general, with a helmet. Take a $150 >HJC full face. To me - they are uncomfortable, scratchy and cheap >feeling. Comfort is mostly a head-shape issue. My Harley (HJC) is very comfortable for me, and fits well...unlike the Arai, Shoei, and Schuberth helmets I tried on the same day. The Arai and Shoei were *really* uncomfortable...the Schuberth was just way too short. The same pattern happened in the early 80s when I last bought a helmet...the Japanese helmets were painful, and a Bell fit great. Head shape varies widely, but most makers seem to make helmets only for one or another of the variants. I hear Shoei now has a model that will fit a head that isn't round, but I haven't seen it myself. >Go to the shops and try on a variety. It is your single most important >piece of gear in terms of comfort and safety, so get what feels right. Yep! Besides comfort, you should also check for security. Put it on, fasten the strap, and try to pull it off...particularly by pulling up on the back. If you can move it very far from the original place with the strap fastened properly, it doesn't fit you...no matter how comfy it feels. In a wreck there's too much chance it will come off and do you no good. Snell includes this test in their evaluation, but head shape really does matter here. An article I read about helmets did some testing with a number of different riders and found that a helmet that was very secure on one person would easily pull off of another. They had one guy in the group that had problems with everything except a Nolan. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 14:45:57 2003 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:46:50 -0500 To: "Dave Blumgart" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: So whatever happened to Bell? At 02:39 PM 11/19/03 -0500, Dave Blumgart wrote: >But I note that *nobody* in this thread has recommended them. I ask >because I've found a site with some reasonably priced snell >2000-approved Bells. Is this yet another case of American quality being >overtaken? My understanding is that Bell has been off the market for many years, and only recently bought their name back and re-entered it. Just a rumor, and I haven't had time to track it down, but if it's true that might account for what you've found. My old Bell was a very good helmet for its day (mid-80s). -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 14:49:32 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Troutman , Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: Re: What does a good helmet cost these days Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:49:41 -0500 I have: AGV Xvent Multicolor thats like $400 I got it on close out for $185. Arai Signet GT Solidcolor that I got for $285 (not sure on retail price). I have to say the Arai is nicer construction, but the AGV fits better on me and doesn't fog up as much. Rob On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:27:38 -0500, Troutman wrote > *that depends* > > You really do get what you pay for, in general, with a helmet. Take > a $150 HJC full face. To me - they are uncomfortable, scratchy and > cheap feeling. But they do the job. I wear a middle class Shoei RF- > 900. $300 in solid colors, great venting, and they last very well > (I am on my second after a RF800). Shoei has $500 custom painted > jobs with ultra light materials and extra comfy lining. Whoopity > doo. Arais tend to be a lot more expensive than Shoei, but I think > they have a more reasonable priced full face now. They don't fit me > well in general, so I have my blinders on for Shoei. > > Go to the shops and try on a variety. It is your single most > important piece of gear in terms of comfort and safety, so get what > feels right. > > At 02:14 PM 11/19/2003, Dave Blumgart wrote: > >I've been away from riding since the early 80's, but am considering > >return to the sport. Today I went looking for a Snell rated full face > >helmet on the net so I could test ride some bikes. The pricing caused a > >serious case of WTF?!? Are helmets really $250-300 these days? > > ___________________________________________ > Mike Troutman > http://www.troutman.org > > Support Legislation requiring Voter-Verified Paper Trail for > 2004 Elections http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/348035553 -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 14:51:54 2003 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 15:07:20 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: So whatever happened to Bell? On Wed, 19 Nov 2003, Dave Blumgart wrote: > But I note that *nobody* in this thread has recommended them. I ask > because I've found a site with some reasonably priced snell > 2000-approved Bells. Is this yet another case of American quality being > overtaken? Can't help you there, but I do race cars with a lot of guys using Bell SA rated helmets. I'm using a Simpson SA2000 Bandit with Nomex liner in my car and HJC AC-10 on my 'Busa. Look for a helmet that fits your melon and is DOT and Snell M2000 certified, then start looking at what options you want. The more expensive helmets generally have more bells and whistles and are made of lighter materials and higher quality interiors. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 14:52:07 2003 Subject: RE: What does a good helmet cost these days Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:51:59 -0500 From: "Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services" To: "Corbett B" , "DC Cycles" All you need to look for in helmets is Snell2000 approval. Everything else is fluff and marketing. If Arai or Shoei had some extra protective powers, you can bet your a** that they would devise a stricter test to show off how superior their helmets are. The cheapest snell2000 helmet I've ever seen was about 140-150, if I remember correctly. After that, you pay for fit, comfort, conveniences like removable lining, and of course, a pain job. A race replica pain job on Arais usually carries a $150 premium in itself. The only exception to my statements above is Japanese and European helmets. Right now, I have an OGK FF4, which is neither DOT or Snell2000 approved because it's not sold in the states. But arguably, the ECE 22.05 standard may be even tougher than Shell 2000.... Witold www.witold.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 14:59:20 2003 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:58:56 -0500 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: DBLUMGART@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: What does a good helmet cost these days X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 Yep. New technologies combined with better fit, aerodynamics, comfort, quietness, etc. have made that about the normal for helmets nowadays. Plus, we ain't livin in the 80's anymore. The dollar ain't what it used to be. :-) Scooter ($5 head in a $400 helmet %-)) In a message dated 11/19/2003 2:14:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, DBLUMGART@XXXXXX writes: > > > I've been away from riding since the early 80's, but am considering > return to the sport. Today I went looking for a Snell rated full face > helmet on the net so I could test ride some bikes. The pricing caused a > serious case of WTF?!? Are helmets really $250-300 these > days? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 15:48:52 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services" , "DC Cycles" Subject: Re: What does a good helmet cost these days Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 15:47:22 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services" > > All you need to look for in helmets is Snell2000 approval. Everything else is fluff and marketing. If Arai or Shoei had some extra protective powers, you can bet your a** that they would devise a stricter test to show off how superior their helmets are. > > The cheapest snell2000 helmet I've ever seen was about 140-150, if I remember correctly. > > After that, you pay for fit, comfort, conveniences like removable lining, and of course, a pain job. A race replica pain job on Arais usually carries a $150 premium in itself. > Yep, as Witold says, Snell certified does not necessarily mean expensive, but Shoeis fit me and the bargain brands I've tried don't. For me it's not an issue of champagne taste, it's an issue of fit. Getting back to the cost of gear in general: I'm prolly preaching to the choir here as most DC-Cyclers are the sensible sort, but it's always amused me a little how motorcyclists can spend thousands on a machine, and yet they complain that protective gear is "too expensive." I consider good protective gear, gear that fits me well and works, as being as integral to the bike as the gas tank. Take that $300 helmet and amortize its cost over its lifetime, either by hours or miles. The ~$300 helmet I'm wearing now was bought new in July of 2000. Heck, I didn't even have the VFR yet and I've put 45,000 miles on that bike alone on this helmet. We're talking a fraction of a penny per hour or mile worn. I counsel newbies to buy a thousand-dollar motorcycle as a first bike and plan on spending that much on gear. It's not hard to spend a grand on jacket, pants, helmet, gloves and boots. Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 15:50:01 2003 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:49:54 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: What does a good helmet cost these days To: Dave Blumgart , dc-cycles@XXXXXX go to http://www.helmetshop.com for decent deals on helmets and prompt shipping and service i consider shoei rf800 to be an excellent helmet for the money ... ~$200 for others on the list: i thought the original rf900 had a removable liner? now it appears not to. what's shoei's lowest priced model with a removable liner? -- tg --- Dave Blumgart wrote: > I've been away from riding since the early 80's, but am > considering > return to the sport. Today I went looking for a Snell > rated full face > helmet on the net so I could test ride some bikes. The > pricing caused a > serious case of WTF?!? Are helmets really $250-300 these > days? > ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 15:54:14 2003 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 15:54:10 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Michael Jordan Reply-To: Michael Jordan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, eternity23@XXXXXX, thomasajordan@XXXXXX Subject: Fw: LDRider: Bit o humor The seller's commentary is absolutely wonderful Michael J >for your day. Posted to ..., which was cross posted from ..., which was, >well, you get the idea. >http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2442354423 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 15:58:30 2003 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:58:20 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: So whatever happened to Bell? To: Mike Bartman , Dave Blumgart , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 02:39 PM 11/19/03 -0500, Dave Blumgart wrote: > >But I note that *nobody* in this thread has recommended > them. I ask because I've found a site with some reasonably > priced snell 2000-approved Bells. Is this yet another case > of American quality being overtaken? > > My understanding is that Bell has been off the market for > many years, and > only recently bought their name back and re-entered it. Bell has continued to make prime-quality auto and kart racing helmets; I still use a Bell Snell '95 helmet for autocrossing. But they sold off the Bell name for moto helmets many years ago. As Mike has stated above, they bought the Bell moto name back a few months ago, and plan to start producing top-quality moto helmets again. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 15:59:42 2003 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: What does a good helmet cost these days Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 15:48:09 -0500 Correct me if I'm wrong, but they'll all protect you. Given they're full face Snell, DOT. You're paying for weight, vents, noise, paint? >From: Corbett B >To: DC Cycles >Subject: Re: What does a good helmet cost these days >Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:40:58 -0800 (PST) > >It depends on what your pumpkin is worth, but on >average, you should be able to get a good quality >full-face helmet for $400 to $450. _________________________________________________________________ Share holiday photos without swamping your Inbox. Get MSN Extra Storage now! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 16:13:49 2003 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:13:32 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Bell press release To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Here you go. More recent than I remembered. Bell Sports bought the name back from Bieffe: -- Larry ============================================= "November 4, 2002 Bell Sports acquires Bell motorcycle helmets, forms new powersports division SANTA CRUZ, Calif. - Bell Sports, the market leader in helmets and accessories for cycling and other active sports, is bringing Bell motorcycle helmets back into the family. The company has acquired the North American rights to the Bell Helmets brand of motorcycle helmets and accessories from Bieffe, an Italian motor sport company. Terms of the deal were not disclosed. Bell Sports also announced it has created a new division, called Bell Powersports based in Santa Cruz, Calif., to manage and rejuvenate the Bell brand name in the motorcycle helmet industry. Bell Powersports will design, manufacture and sell motorcycle, snowmobile and all-terrain vehicle (ATV) helmets and accessories in North America under the Bell Helmets brand name. Bieffe owned the license to the Bell brand for motorcycle helmets since 1991. The deal brings the product line back into the Bell family, giving Bell Powersports complete control over the brand and future direction of the business in the United States and Canada. Bell was the first company to develop motorcycle helmets with protective expanded polystyrene (EPS) liners - now the industry standard - and invented the full-face motorcycle helmet. Today, the Bell family of companies sells more helmets and owns more design patents than any other company in the world. Bell-branded helmets, defined by their innovative designs and tough, proven durability, are worn by leading racecar drivers, motorcycle racers and cyclists around the world. "The Bell brand was born in motor sport racing five decades ago as the first truly protective racing helmet," said Kwai Kong, general manager of Bell Powersports. "Today, the company is united behind a common goal - to leverage our brand building and helmet design expertise to re-establish Bell's leadership position in motorcycle helmets and accessories." The company's brand-building plan is centered on three key priorities: differentiating its product line through design innovation; creating consumer demand with high-profile marketing programs; and fortifying retail relationships through timely service and high-quality products. Kwai Kong will lead the Bell Powersports management team, with Greg Shapleigh as vice president of marketing and John Vanderburg as vice president of sales. The team will oversee Bell's world class helmet designers in Santa Cruz, Calif., home to the largest helmet development and test lab in the world. Bell Powersports will be making additional investments in marketing, sales and staffing resources to re-energize its presence in the motorcycle, snowmobile and ATV market segments. The Bell product line ranges from street and off-road motorcycle helmets and accessories to snowmobile and ATV helmets. Styles include full-face, open-face and half helmets. All Bell-branded motorcycle, snowmobile and ATV helmets meet the appropriate industry safety standards." __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 17:14:01 2003 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:13:35 -0500 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: mjordan812@XXXXXX (Michael Jordan), dc-cycles@XXXXXX, eternity23@XXXXXX, thomasajordan@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Fw: LDRider: Bit o humor X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 Owww..LOL...oooo....sides....splitting....from.....laughing. Can....barely......reach.......keyboard.......from..floor...to....type. Some...one......call....911.... Scooter (ROTFLMAO) In a message dated 11/19/2003 3:54:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, mjordan812@XXXXXX writes: > > > The seller's commentary is absolutely wonderful > > Michael J > > >for your day. Posted to ..., which was cross posted from ..., which was, > >well, you get the idea. > > >http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=244235 > 4423 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 17:36:51 2003 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:36:48 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Towing Service To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 08:40 AM 11/19/03 -0800, Carl Schelin wrote: > > >Anyway, I thought I was too much in the middle so I turned everything > back > >on and started her up. It started but about 3 seconds later it stopped > and > >the engine light came on. > > > >Hmm, so I tried a couple of more times and it failed both times. > > > >Ok, so I'll come back when she's cooled down. > > > >At 11 I tried again and still no change. > > That's odd. Any ideas what it might be? The most obvious first guesses > (out of gas, wet electrics, clogged fuel filter, etc.) all seem to be > mostly ruled out by the specifics of the situation (i.e. it ran fine > until > shut down, started briefly, won't start at all now). It could still be > gas, but it would be a pretty amazing coincidence in timing... > Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear. Each time I tried to start it, it ran for 2 to 3 seconds and then puttered out, as if it was out of fuel. The engine light came on. > Seems likely to be related to your recent service work...but I can't > think > of anything that would fit the exact description...anybody else? > I thought that too but the service guys said it may be some sensor (there's a sensor that cuts out the engine if it goes on its side) and it may also be a fuel issue. > Can you check for the usual suspects (spark and gas)? > Full tank this morning at Exxon and it does start, it just doesn't stay running. > -- Mike B. Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 17:45:59 2003 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:45:36 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Pitchfork To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Bob Meyer wrote: > > > > > From: "Chris Norloff" > > Date: 2003/11/18 Tue AM 08:16:50 EST > > To: "List-dc cycles" > > Subject: Pitchfork > > > > > > One Lucky Driver's Close Call > > Pitchfork Crashes Through Hill Aide's Windshield > > > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A54188-2003Nov17.html > > > > It also points out the absolute lack of training in emergency > maneuvering that American drivers get. He apparently made no effort to > swerve and avoid the damn thing. > Most likely he wasn't aware of his surroundings like we are. If something is in our way, we already know where the other vehicles and can swerve appropriately. This guy probably was just zoned out and didn't know if there was an out on either side or didn't even think about it, in which case, slamming on the brakes and closing his eyes was probably for the best. I'd hate for him to swerve into my lane just to avoid the pitchfork, and hopefully I'm aware enough that if I'm behind him, I'll move left or right without missing a beat. Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 17:48:48 2003 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:48:45 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Fog City To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > In a message dated 11/17/2003 8:13:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, > dm_gsxr@XXXXXX writes: > > > I don't know about the scratching just yet. I clean the shield now > with a > > tissue so I expect that if I continue I shouldn't have much of a > problem. > > Uh, yea, you will. > You should _never_ clean your shield with any kind of paper product, > believe > it or not the stuff contains lots of (tiny) sticks and twigs that can > scratch > the hell out of it. I knew that. Since I haven't had a problem with the main shield, I didn't think there'd be a problem with this thing. I didn't realize it was so much more sensitive. Someone made the observation that for $15, I should just replace it every year. I'm with him on that :-) > Use soft cloth, preferably something made for > cleaning > glasses (but not containing silicon.) > Paper will usually not scratch a good polycarbonate shield, but it will > scratch your Fog City. Thanks. > > > John. > PenguinBiker@XXXXXX > Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 17:52:13 2003 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:52:11 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Shield Cleaning (was: Fog City) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- "Verde, Robert" wrote: > I prefer to use a small section of chain mail, dipped first in oil and > then in sand. Does an excellent job of cleaning all the rust and > spatters of... matter from my shield. > Personally I use the cloth of the fallen warrior in front of me. And if you clean it first, there's no caking or rust to try and get off later. Of course, be judicious. If you're in the middle of battle it may not be the best time to stop and clean off your shield :-) > However, on a more moto topic; I have used a paper towel, soaked in > clean water and laid on my visor to soak off the dried bug residue. I > don't use it to wipe off, just to keep it damp, a soaking aid I guess > you'd say. Then I dry the visor with a soft cloth after rinsing with > more water. No scratches to date, outside of the occasional errant > rock-in-the-face ones. > I'm using the wax stuff (Z-One) which seems to do a pretty good job of "cleaning" but the wax seems to glaze in a day or two and I have to clean it off again. > Anyone used those "polishing towels" sold in auto parts stores, the blue > no-lint ones? They look like a nice size to keep under the seat, but I > don't know if they'd be suitable for visors. > > Robert > > Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 17:52:55 2003 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:49:12 -0500 To: Michael Jordan , dc-cycles@XXXXXX, eternity23@XXXXXX, thomasajordan@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Fw: LDRider: Bit o humor At 03:54 PM 11/19/03 -0500, Michael Jordan wrote: >The seller's commentary is absolutely wonderful > >Michael J > >>for your day. Posted to ..., which was cross posted from ..., which was, >>well, you get the idea. > >>http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2442354423 Priceless! I especially like the way he pushed his goods by saying this about the bike: "This bike is like Monty Python's parrot. It wouldn't voom if you put 40,000 volts through it." With a pitch like that, how can it *not* sell? ;^) I'd almost buy the thing from him just as a reward for his "truth in advertising" and slamming of idiot bidders...except for the fact that it's already sold and putting a bid on it from this distance would make me one of his idiot bidders... :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 17:56:09 2003 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:56:03 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: What does a good helmet cost these days To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Dave Blumgart wrote: > I've been away from riding since the early 80's, but am considering > return to the sport. Today I went looking for a Snell rated full face > helmet on the net so I could test ride some bikes. The pricing caused a > serious case of WTF?!? Are helmets really $250-300 these days? > Yea, I paid $300 for my Shoei and it was on sale. My HD bucket was $150. Rita's Nolan (flip-up) was $150 and her bucket was $45 or so but she has a small head and was able to find both of hers on e-bay. Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 17:56:46 2003 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:56:19 -0800 (PST) From: Isaac Blanck Subject: Interview Request To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I'm a freelance writer, and I'm writing a piece about the MSF basic rider's course. I'd like to interview an instructor or 2, and a rider or 2 who recently took the course. Anyone interested? thx jib __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 17:57:57 2003 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:58:43 -0500 To: "rich hall" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: What does a good helmet cost these days At 03:48 PM 11/19/03 -0500, rich hall wrote: >Correct me if I'm wrong, but they'll all protect you. Given they're full >face Snell, DOT. Forget DOT...a wooden salad bowl could probably meet their requirements. Snell rating, or a reputable manufacturer like Arai, Shoei, Bell or Schuberth, are what to look for. >You're paying for weight, vents, noise, paint? That and name, marketing, quality of materials and features. The Schuberth Concept, for instance, has a movable chin bar and built-in sun visor as well as very nice padding on the inside. It isn't cheap. Weight doesn't seem to vary all that much...at least not over the models carried in the local places. Haven't taken a scale with me, but wearing them in the store doesn't show much difference that I can tell. Aerodynamics are likely to matter more than actual weight anway...wind force will exceed weight at speed in most cases. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 18:01:32 2003 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 15:01:30 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: What does a good helmet cost these days To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Troutman wrote: > *that depends* > Go to the shops and try on a variety. It is your single most important > piece of gear in terms of comfort and safety, so get what feels right. > I agree with this sentiment. Someone here pointed out that the Shoei's seem to be fitted for someone with a flatter face and I can attest to that. While I can wear mine most of the time with reasonable comfort, after a day of riding my ears especially are in pain, but then again, I'm real sensitive to pressure on them. My chin seems to hang out under the chin guard and my nose is right over the chin vents so I get a 'V' in the fogged shield. I was unable to find a Nolan that fit and the same with the other that was mentioned (memory sucks: starts with an 'A') Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 18:09:35 2003 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 18:10:24 -0500 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Towing Service At 02:36 PM 11/19/03 -0800, Carl Schelin wrote: >--- Mike Bartman wrote: >> That's odd. Any ideas what it might be? The most obvious first guesses >> (out of gas, wet electrics, clogged fuel filter, etc.) all seem to be >> mostly ruled out by the specifics of the situation (i.e. it ran fine >> until >> shut down, started briefly, won't start at all now). It could still be >> gas, but it would be a pretty amazing coincidence in timing... > >Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear. Each time I tried to start it, it ran for 2 >to 3 seconds and then puttered out, as if it was out of fuel. The engine >light came on. Oh! That's different. Sounds like it could be either a sensor, as you say, or a fuel restriction problem. If it won't start right after running, but will run a couple of seconds if you wait a few minutes, I'd bet on a clogged fuel filter or pinched fuel line. If it starts right away after stopping, then dies, it sounds more like some sort of computer/sensor thing. >> Can you check for the usual suspects (spark and gas)? > >Full tank this morning at Exxon and it does start, it just doesn't stay >running. I was thinking more like checking to see if gas is getting out of the tank. You have a carb, right? I found something interesting about my bike the other day. I accidentally hit the "STOP" switch, rather than the "RIGHT TURN" switch, while working my way out of Lake Forest Mall's parking lot. The bike ignored my error...didn't even cough...just kept going and I put it back into "RUN" and hit the turn signal. With the bike stopped the kill switch works every time though, mo probs. On my old bikes that mistake would have resulted in a dead engine that was busy getting "push started" by my momentum, and I'd have slowed rapidly until I got the clutch in. I like the modern H-D way of handling that...even if it does require a computer with sensors that can fail and leave you looking for a towing company on a rainy Wednesday. Hope you got it handled... -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 18:09:47 2003 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 15:09:45 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: What does a good helmet cost these days To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Paul Wilson wrote: > I counsel newbies to buy a thousand-dollar motorcycle as a first bike > and > plan on spending that much on gear. It's not hard to spend a grand on > jacket, pants, helmet, gloves and boots. > Oh yea. I agree with this. I just got my Joe Rocket pants to go with the jacket and am looking at Sidi boots. I have the waterproof HD gloves and the Gerbings gloves and jacket liner with the pants liner on order. HD boots are alternates in case someone local doesn't have the Sidi boots (or if I'm in the dealership getting my bike and they have them _and_ I haven't picked up the Sidi's yet :-) > Paul in DC > 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org > Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 18:14:02 2003 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 18:14:35 -0500 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: What does a good helmet cost these days At 03:01 PM 11/19/03 -0800, Carl Schelin wrote: > >I was unable to find a Nolan that fit and the same with the other that was >mentioned (memory sucks: starts with an 'A') Arai? -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 18:24:48 2003 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 15:24:45 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Towing Service To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 02:36 PM 11/19/03 -0800, Carl Schelin wrote: > >--- Mike Bartman wrote: > >> That's odd. Any ideas what it might be? The most obvious first > guesses > >> (out of gas, wet electrics, clogged fuel filter, etc.) all seem to be > >> mostly ruled out by the specifics of the situation (i.e. it ran fine > >> until > >> shut down, started briefly, won't start at all now). It could still > be > >> gas, but it would be a pretty amazing coincidence in timing... > > > >Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear. Each time I tried to start it, it ran > for 2 > >to 3 seconds and then puttered out, as if it was out of fuel. The > engine > >light came on. > > Oh! That's different. Sounds like it could be either a sensor, as you > say, or a fuel restriction problem. If it won't start right after > running, > but will run a couple of seconds if you wait a few minutes, I'd bet on a > clogged fuel filter or pinched fuel line. If it starts right away after > stopping, then dies, it sounds more like some sort of computer/sensor > thing. Starts right away after running. No wait necessary. I also waited for the bike to cool down with no luck and then again when we went out to put it on the truck, again no luck. > > >> Can you check for the usual suspects (spark and gas)? > > > >Full tank this morning at Exxon and it does start, it just doesn't stay > >running. > > I was thinking more like checking to see if gas is getting out of the > tank. > You have a carb, right? > Nope. EFI. I've also noticed that I get the spraying sound even when riding. It seems to match my throttle. Accelerate and it's continuous spraying sound. Back off to "maintain speed" and it's intermittent. > > I found something interesting about my bike the other day. I > accidentally > hit the "STOP" switch, rather than the "RIGHT TURN" switch, while > working > my way out of Lake Forest Mall's parking lot. The bike ignored my > error...didn't even cough...just kept going and I put it back into "RUN" > and hit the turn signal. With the bike stopped the kill switch works > every > time though, mo probs. > Hmmm, it may be only when it's in gear. I regularly roll into the parking spot at 7/11 after cutting off the bike with the kill switch. It's in neutral at the time though. > On my old bikes that mistake would have resulted in a dead engine that > was > busy getting "push started" by my momentum, and I'd have slowed rapidly > until I got the clutch in. I like the modern H-D way of handling > that...even if it does require a computer with sensors that can fail and > leave you looking for a towing company on a rainy Wednesday. Hope you > got > it handled... > Yep. Rita picked up the truck (in Falls Church) and came by. I grabbed a couple of guys from the office and we pushed it onto the truck (I have a ramp). We drove it to East Coast[*] and they had a couple of guys help me get it off the truck. As I was releasing the straps (while straddling the front wheel to hold it up), it got loose and fell lightly to its side. Not even a scratch *whew*. Anyway, it's in the shop now. We'll see what happens next. > -- Mike B. Carl * Friend had his Harley in East Coast and he's now sueing them because they didn't raise his bike correctly and they dented his transmission pan. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 18:26:09 2003 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 15:26:06 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: What does a good helmet cost these days To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 03:01 PM 11/19/03 -0800, Carl Schelin wrote: > > > >I was unable to find a Nolan that fit and the same with the other that > was > >mentioned (memory sucks: starts with an 'A') > > Arai? > Yea that's it. Like I said. Memory sucks :-) (And I'm sure I'll get lots of mail telling me the name. My memory will still suck if someone asks me about it.) > -- Mike B. > Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 18:48:36 2003 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 19:04:12 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: What does a good helmet cost these days On Wed, 19 Nov 2003, Mike Bartman wrote: > >You're paying for weight, vents, noise, paint? > > Weight doesn't seem to vary all that much Not true. Weight is one of the things you're paying for in the race-replica helmets from manufacturers like Arai. >From the Arai website: "The specially-developed strands bond the layers more rigidly to further improve shell integrity and impact-force management. SNC also allows for more weight to be removed from the top of the shell, reducing overall helmet weight by almost three ounces (RX-7 Corsair vs. previous RX-7 models) while it lowers the center of gravity, resulting in better balance and reduced fatigue for more comfort." -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 19:49:50 2003 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 16:49:43 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Fwd: Re: Towing Service To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX No problem, consider it passed along. Carl --- ALL OUT RACING wrote: > From: "ALL OUT RACING" > To: "Carl Schelin" > Subject: Re: Towing Service > Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 19:11:04 -0500 > > **Carl Please pass to the list as i have seen allot on Towing > If members go to www.sportbike.com They can get a membership for towing > of > bikes it is cheaper than the service provided by the AMA > Gary AOR __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 20:11:26 2003 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:27:01 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Carbon Busa One of the guys on the 'Busa board posted these pictures of his Hayabusa from a recent photo shoot. The bike is going to be in Performance Bike magazine. The dude in the Roof Boxer helmet is Nick, the bike's owner. http://www.blueblackbusa.org/performance-bike-busa He's done just about everything to the bike - stroker, nitrous and everything on the market to lighten the bike and make it handle better. In addition to spirited street riding, he does track days with the bike. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 20:19:23 2003 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:07:46 -0500 To: DC Cycles From: Bob Meyer Subject: Re: What does a good helmet cost these days At 02:35 PM 11/19/03 -0500, Sunil Doshi wrote: >I bought a good HJC (plain white) for $200 a few months ago. Of course, I >wanted a $400 Arai. > >You can certainly pay less than $200, but the old saying comes to mind... >"Buy a $50 helmet if your head's worth $50" Any helmet that is Snell approved will do the job in terms of safety, and I've bought a couple of HJC's for my son for $99 each. They're not as fancy or quiet (wear ear-plugs anyway), but they fit him well, and will protect him in an accident. But definitely try on many helmets before you buy. Some fit rounder heads, and some (notably Arai) fit more oval heads. Shoei's press on my forehead and give me headaches. Arai's fit me perfectly. YMMV. Bob Meyer, STOC # 1157 '92 ST1100, '02 ST1100 ABS '02 919 "Attack Life. It's going to kill you anyway." From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 21:16:12 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Wayne Edelen , Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Carbon Busa Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 21:16:21 -0500 Huh, that looks a little short for a Busa. or maybe he is just a big/tall guy. Rob On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:27:01 -0500 (EST), Wayne Edelen wrote > One of the guys on the 'Busa board posted these pictures of his Hayabusa > from a recent photo shoot. The bike is going to be in Performance Bike > magazine. The dude in the Roof Boxer helmet is Nick, the bike's owner. > > http://www.blueblackbusa.org/performance-bike-busa > > He's done just about everything to the bike - stroker, nitrous and > everything on the market to lighten the bike and make it handle better. > In addition to spirited street riding, he does track days > with the bike. > > -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 21:21:22 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Towing Service Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 21:21:29 -0500 On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:36:48 -0800 (PST), Carl Schelin wrote > Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear. Each time I tried to start it, it ran > for 2 to 3 seconds and then puttered out, as if it was out of fuel. > The engine light came on. A Harley with an "Engine Light" (check engine, I assume) , why am I not suprised :) Sorry to poke fun at your misfortune Carl, but I get a kick out of the check engine light on a Harley. My Honda doesn't have one :) Rob -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 22:00:42 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: Re: Carbon Busa Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:00:34 -0500 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec796479606b0fdeb622b76aa804b147b117350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Wayne warned: > One of the guys on the 'Busa board posted these pictures of his Hayabusa > from a recent photo shoot. The bike is going to be in Performance Bike > magazine. The dude in the Roof Boxer helmet is Nick, the bike's owner. > > http://www.blueblackbusa.org/performance-bike-busa > > He's done just about everything to the bike - stroker, nitrous and > everything on the market to lighten the bike and make it handle better. > In addition to spirited street riding, he does track days with the > bike. [Dave] I shudder to think of the $$$ amount involved. Looks nicely done though. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 23:47:45 2003 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 23:40:51 -0500 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Towing Service At 03:24 PM 11/19/03 -0800, Carl Schelin wrote: > >Starts right away after running. No wait necessary. I also waited for the >bike to cool down with no luck and then again when we went out to put it >on the truck, again no luck. Ok, I give up. ;^) >Nope. EFI. I've also noticed that I get the spraying sound even when >riding. It seems to match my throttle. Accelerate and it's continuous >spraying sound. Back off to "maintain speed" and it's intermittent. "Spraying sound"? I'm not sure what you mean there... >> I found something interesting about my bike the other day. I >> accidentally >> hit the "STOP" switch, rather than the "RIGHT TURN" switch, while >> working >> my way out of Lake Forest Mall's parking lot. The bike ignored my >> error...didn't even cough...just kept going and I put it back into "RUN" >> and hit the turn signal. With the bike stopped the kill switch works >> every time though, mo probs. > >Hmmm, it may be only when it's in gear. I regularly roll into the parking >spot at 7/11 after cutting off the bike with the kill switch. It's in >neutral at the time though. Being in gear may have something to do with it, but I think it's also tied to speed. I can kill it at a stop whether it's in gear or not. You've killed yours while coasting in neutral. I was moving and in gear when it ignored my command to shut down. Then again, mine's newer and maybe they've changed something. I'll have to try the neutral coasting thing and see what happens. >Anyway, it's in the shop now. We'll see what happens next. I'd like to hear what it was when you find out...just in case. :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 23:47:47 2003 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 23:48:35 -0500 To: Bob Meyer , DC Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: What does a good helmet cost these days At 08:07 PM 11/19/03 -0500, Bob Meyer wrote: >Shoei's press on my forehead and give me headaches. Check...me too. >Arai's fit me perfectly. YMMV. Mine varies. Arai's press on the top of my head (headache again) and don't hold well to the cheeks, allowing the helmet to rotate too much. Schuberth Concept was good, except that it was too short...half my face was hanging out the bottom. Harley (HJC) fit well, though the nose sheild is a bit off and I suspect that's one of the causes of the fogging I'm getting. It needs to be about 1/4" higher to deflect breath better. Probably still fog though. I just pop the face shield open a click and it clears at any speed over 25mph. Below that I just open it more. Going to try something I thought of the other day to fix the problem and still let me close my face shield for quiet at higher speeds as soon as I can get to a store for the required materials... -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Nov 19 23:52:54 2003 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 23:53:37 -0500 To: "Rob Sharp" , Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Towing Service Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX At 09:21 PM 11/19/03 -0500, Rob Sharp wrote: >On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:36:48 -0800 (PST), Carl Schelin wrote > >> Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear. Each time I tried to start it, it ran >> for 2 to 3 seconds and then puttered out, as if it was out of fuel. >> The engine light came on. > >A Harley with an "Engine Light" (check engine, I assume) , why am I not >suprised :) Sorry to poke fun at your misfortune Carl, but I get a kick out >of the check engine light on a Harley. My Honda doesn't have one :) Yeah it has one...along with a neutral light, turn signal indicators, and ignition on. There are a couple more in the speedo too...one for fuel pump pressurizing (used during startup) and one for security system active. I just remembered one thing that can cause the engine light to come on, and it would happen after running for a few seconds: insufficient oil pressure. Check the oil, and if you still have some, it may be the oil pump (probably not if you aren't hearing anything strange) or, most likely, the oil pressure sensor...look for loose wires in case it's just come loose or something. Sorry I didn't think of that before you took it in for repair... -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 20 00:27:31 2003 Subject: Re: What does a good helmet cost these days From: Brian Roach To: Mike Bartman Cc: DC Cycles Date: 20 Nov 2003 00:27:22 -0500 On Wed, 2003-11-19 at 23:48, Mike Bartman wrote: > Mine varies. Arai's press on the top of my head (headache again) and don't > hold well to the cheeks, allowing the helmet to rotate too much. Which Arai? Each model has a different shell shape. I can't wear Shoei (digs into forehead), I can't wear an Arai Quantum (same problem), but an Arai Signet GT fits perfectly. It's basically the "You have a head shaped like an egg on it's side" shape. (Arai calls it their "Long Oval", but I think the egg reference is much more descriptive). I did, however, switch to AGV this year after Arai started their anti-competitive price-fixing policy. I've been wearing an AGV "Flyer" all year for racing, and find the shell shape comparable to the Arai Signet. The helmet is comfortable, and has good ventilation. It is not as quiet as the Arai though. Of course, for half the price (We sell the AGVs for $220), I'll take a little noise. - Roach From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 20 01:10:18 2003 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:09:51 -0800 (PST) From: "Collin T. Fagan" Subject: helmets and stuff... and oh yeah.. howdy everyone!! :) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX One thing I didn't see mentioned in the discussion is the two major types: in general, arai is for oval heads, shoei is for round. Of course, each brand has a model for the other shape. As a few have said, try a variety on. I fit a medium of most helmets, but an XXL AGV I can barely fit on my head. I was using Bell (when Bieffe owned them) with good results (many listers probably remember me going over the handlebars at 100+ during a race at Nelson Ledges with no damage to me...comments from the peanut gallery aside!). However, them bastages still owe me almost $400 in contingency money for races won..... Now I've been using HJC CL12 model and been very happy with them. (been getting good deals from www.discountmotorcyclehelmet.com owner is a pretty cool guy) Yeah, Arai's are top of the line and quiet and comfortable, but the HJC fits my bank account a bit better and I feel equally protected..... and unfortunately, Monday morning I road tested one of the three I have here at the house.... http://home.comcast.net/~cfagan17/DSC00737.JPG Long story short: was dry at my house, but had sprinkled closer to the office but couldn't really tell it.... Collin goofing off going considerably faster than he really should on a public road.... tucked the front braking hard and sliding a loooooooooong ways. http://home.comcast.net/~cfagan17/DSC00550.JPG I was wearing my usual gear: leather top/bottom, sidi boots, held gloves. Helmet of course is garbage, gloves have a couple of tears around the metal studs, jacket, pants, and boots all have minor scuffing only. (thanks Colleen for selling me a good jacket! :) ) I walked away with just some stiff and sore muscles, riding one of my other bikes till I get something new (RC-51 maybe in the future :) ). Oh, and hi to everyone... really miss riding with you guys and the NOVA area. I'm due to transfer a year early this coming summer due to selection for promotion (scary thought, eh?) and DC is one of the options in my future.. won't know for a while though. Mike Jordan could you drop me a line please? Have a question for you :) PS: I read the digest about once in a blue moon, so copy me direct on replies :D CT ===== Collin T. Fagan DC-Cycles Racing http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/9350/ Proudly sponsored by: Fast Lane Cycles (www.fastlanecycles.com) Dixie Cycles Bell Helmets, and EBC Brakes __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 20 01:16:11 2003 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 01:16:57 -0500 To: Brian Roach From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: What does a good helmet cost these days Cc: DC Cycles At 12:27 AM 11/20/03 -0500, Brian Roach wrote: >On Wed, 2003-11-19 at 23:48, Mike Bartman wrote: > >> Mine varies. Arai's press on the top of my head (headache again) and don't >> hold well to the cheeks, allowing the helmet to rotate too much. > >Which Arai? Each model has a different shell shape. Not sure... I tried all the 2X ones they had at Battley's (Rockville Harley) and they all had similar problems. I'll keep in mind that Arai uses different shapes and try them again when I need another helmet. They've certainly got a good rep. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 20 02:11:07 2003 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 23:10:59 -0800 (PST) From: Adam Reinhardt Subject: Re: Carbon Busa To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I think I saw this Busa last weekend at the Rock Store in the Santa Monica Mnts. If it wasn't this Busa, then it was another carbon-fiber covered Busa. Didn't get a chance to see it ridden though. Adam --- Dave Yates wrote: > Wayne warned: > > > One of the guys on the 'Busa board posted these > pictures of his Hayabusa > > from a recent photo shoot. The bike is going to > be in Performance Bike > > magazine. The dude in the Roof Boxer helmet is > Nick, the bike's owner. > > > > http://www.blueblackbusa.org/performance-bike-busa > > > > He's done just about everything to the bike - > stroker, nitrous and > > everything on the market to lighten the bike and > make it handle better. > > In addition to spirited street riding, he > does track days with the > > bike. > > [Dave] I shudder to think of the $$$ amount > involved. Looks nicely done > though. > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 20 04:27:46 2003 Subject: Re: What does a good helmet cost these days From: Brian Roach To: Mike Bartman Cc: DC Cycles Date: 20 Nov 2003 04:27:38 -0500 On Thu, 2003-11-20 at 01:16, Mike Bartman wrote: > and don't hold well to the cheeks, allowing the helmet to rotate too > much. I should also mention that almost every decent helmet (not the really cheap ones) including Arai has replaceable cheekpads. If you buy from somewhere that actually knows how to fit you they'll get you the correct size pads for your face. The correct combination of helmet size and padding is essential for a perfect fit. - Roach From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 20 06:03:52 2003 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 06:02:35 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: Brian Roach CC: Mike Bartman , DC Cycles Subject: Re: What does a good helmet cost these days Brian Roach wrote: > On Thu, 2003-11-20 at 01:16, Mike Bartman wrote: > > > and don't hold well to the cheeks, allowing the helmet to rotate too > > much. > > I should also mention that almost every decent helmet (not the really > cheap ones) including Arai has replaceable cheekpads. If you buy from > somewhere that actually knows how to fit you they'll get you the correct > size pads for your face. The correct combination of helmet size and > padding is essential for a perfect fit. > > - Roach My Shoei RF-800 didn't have changable cheek pads, but I remedied the cheek squish factor by slicing the cover open and trimming the foam. Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 20 07:23:51 2003 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 07:39:23 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Carbon Busa On Wed, 19 Nov 2003, Adam Reinhardt wrote: > I think I saw this Busa last weekend at the Rock Store > in the Santa Monica Mnts. If it wasn't this Busa, > then it was another carbon-fiber covered Busa. > > Didn't get a chance to see it ridden though. > > Adam That's Nick. He hangs out at the Rock Store. -- Wayne From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 20 07:38:19 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: Subject: Re: Carbon Busa Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 7:38:09 -0500 > One of the guys on the 'Busa board posted these pictures of his Hayabusa > from a recent photo shoot. The bike is going to be in Performance Bike > magazine. The dude in the Roof Boxer helmet is Nick, the bike's owner. > > http://www.blueblackbusa.org/performance-bike-busa > > He's done just about everything to the bike - stroker, nitrous and > everything on the market to lighten the bike and make it handle better. > In addition to spirited street riding, he does track days with the > bike. Looking at those track pics, I think his money would have been better spent on riding school. Sure, he's dragging his knee, but he's got to hang w-a-y off the bike to do it. That bikes got acres more ground clearance than he's using, which translates into much higher cornering speeds that the rider's taking advantage of. I suspect a stock 'busa, maybe with some suspension upgrades, with a skilled rider would be noticeably faster around a track. (asbestos undies on) Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" '92 ST1100, "red STag" '02 919, "still looking for a name" A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers.... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 20 08:54:10 2003 From: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" To: "'Wayne Edelen'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Rider Down Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:54:00 -0500 A friend of mine was killed on Sunday when a car pulled out in front of him in Westminster on Rt.31 the car was trying to make an illegal u-turn. It's been tough cause he had three kids and wife. He as leading the group of 5 riders. I was supposed to be there but didn't feel like riding ( something just didn't feel right when I took the bike out to ride so I didn't go). He wasn't a stunter and was one of the safest riders I have ridden with. I will miss him dearly we were close friends and fellow riders. We helped each other with wrenching on each others bikes. He gave me my Yosh rs-3 bolt on pipe when he got his new exhaust. Not to put a damper on the discussion but I thought the list would want to know we lost a great rider and friend. Fatal accident under investigation Maryland State Police were still investigating Monday a fatal car crash that happened Sunday afternoon near Md. 31 and Sam's Creek Road. The crash, in which a 2002 Honda Accord and a Suzuki motorcycle collided, left Robert Nicholls Jr., 32, of Frederick dead. The crash happened when the Honda, driven by Maurice Piscacek, 62, of Prince George's County, tried to make a U-turn while traveling west on Md. 31, according to state police. Nicholls wasn't able to stop and struck the Honda, police said. Nicholls was taken to Carroll Hospital Center, where he was pronounced dead, according to the police. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 20 09:22:09 2003 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 06:22:04 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Weaver Subject: Re: Carbon Busa To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX He's a member of cycleforums too: http://www.cycleforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=63372 Chris Weaver --- Adam Reinhardt wrote: > I think I saw this Busa last weekend at the Rock > Store > in the Santa Monica Mnts. If it wasn't this Busa, > then it was another carbon-fiber covered Busa. > > Didn't get a chance to see it ridden though. > > Adam __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 20 09:43:54 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: Re: Rider Down Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 09:43:42 -0500 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec796ea576de7bc40a815f1e53f5047cd257350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c > A friend of mine was killed on Sunday when a car pulled out in front of him > in Westminster on Rt.31 the car was trying to make an illegal u-turn. It's > been tough cause he had three kids and wife. [Dave] Arthur, that sucks. My thoughts go out to the family - and you... ... > Fatal accident under investigation > > Maryland State Police were still investigating Monday a fatal car crash that > happened Sunday afternoon near Md. 31 and Sam's Creek Road. > > The crash, in which a 2002 Honda Accord and a Suzuki motorcycle collided, > left Robert Nicholls Jr., 32, of Frederick dead. > > The crash happened when the Honda, driven by Maurice Piscacek, 62, of Prince > George's County, tried to make a U-turn while traveling west on Md. 31, > according to state police. Nicholls wasn't able to stop and struck the > Honda, police said. > > Nicholls was taken to Carroll Hospital Center, where he was pronounced dead, > according to the police. > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 20 09:44:04 2003 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 09:44:59 -0500 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Towing Service Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Correction (after digging into the shop manual a bit): the oil pressure sensor doesn't connect to to the ECM, or result in a shutdown of the engine...it just turns on the low oil light ("engine light"). Shutting down at that point is up to the rider. The ECM looks like it could be shutting things down due to bad readings from other sensors though...like the manifold pressure sensor (MAP), or the induction air control sensor, or the crank position sensor, etc.. It uses all that stuff to decide on fuel flow and timing changes, so it seems like bad inputs could result in settings that don't let the engine run. The ECM could be bad too I guess. Still interested in what the pros at the shop have to say after they look at it. -- Mike B. At 09:21 PM 11/19/03 -0500, Rob Sharp wrote: >On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:36:48 -0800 (PST), Carl Schelin wrote > >A Harley with an "Engine Light" (check engine, I assume) , why am I not >suprised :) Sorry to poke fun at your misfortune Carl, but I get a kick out >of the check engine light on a Harley. My Honda doesn't have one :) Yeah it has one...along with a neutral light, turn signal indicators, and ignition on. There are a couple more in the speedo too...one for fuel pump pressurizing (used during startup) and one for security system active. I just remembered one thing that can cause the engine light to come on, and it would happen after running for a few seconds: insufficient oil pressure. Check the oil, and if you still have some, it may be the oil pump (probably not if you aren't hearing anything strange) or, most likely, the oil pressure sensor...look for loose wires in case it's just come loose or something. Sorry I didn't think of that before you took it in for repair... -- Mike B. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 20 11:02:39 2003 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:02:06 -0500 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: gixer_racer@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: helmets and stuff... and oh yeah.. howdy everyone!! :) X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 Oh my GOD!!! Collin is still reading the list. Haven't heard that name in forever. So, Collin, you still got that Yamaha whatever beast with no suspension? ;-) BTW, since last time we met, I've gotten a new toy. I'm riding around on a 2000 R6 now. I don't know if I'd trust you riding it around like my old FZR though. LOL Good to hear you're still out there and possibly moving back this way. Scooter In a message dated 11/20/2003 1:09:51 AM Eastern Standard Time, gixer_racer@XXXXXX writes: > > > One thing I didn't see mentioned in the discussion is the two major > types: in general, arai is for oval heads, shoei is for round. Of > course, each brand has a model for the other shape. As a few have > said, try a variety on. I fit a medium of most helmets, but an XXL AGV > I can barely fit on my head. > > I was using Bell (when Bieffe owned them) with good results (many > listers probably remember me going over the handlebars at 100+ during a > race at Nelson Ledges with no damage to me...comments from the peanut > gallery aside!). However, them bastages still owe me almost $400 in > contingency money for races won..... > > Now I've been using HJC CL12 model and been very happy with them. (been > getting good deals from www.discountmotorcyclehelmet.com owner is a > pretty cool guy) Yeah, Arai's are top of the line and quiet and > comfortable, but the HJC fits my bank account a bit better and I feel > equally protected..... and unfortunately, Monday morning I road tested > one of the three I have here at the house.... > > http://home.comcast.net/~cfagan17/DSC00737.JPG > > Long story short: was dry at my house, but had sprinkled closer to the > office but couldn't really tell it.... Collin goofing off going > considerably faster than he really should on a public road.... tucked > the front braking hard and sliding a loooooooooong ways. > > http://home.comcast.net/~cfagan17/DSC00550.JPG > > I was wearing my usual gear: leather top/bottom, sidi boots, held > gloves. Helmet of course is garbage, gloves have a couple of tears > around the metal studs, jacket, pants, and boots all have minor > scuffing only. (thanks Colleen for selling me a good jacket! :) ) > I walked away with just some stiff and sore muscles, riding one of my > other bikes till I get something new (RC-51 maybe in the future :) ). > > Oh, and hi to everyone... really miss riding with you guys and the NOVA > area. I'm due to transfer a year early this coming summer due to > selection for promotion (scary thought, eh?) and DC is one of the > options in my future.. won't know for a while though. > > Mike Jordan could you drop me a line please? Have a question for you :) > > PS: I read the digest about once in a blue moon, so copy me > direct on > replies :D > > CT > > ===== > Collin T. Fagan > DC-Cycles Racing > http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/9350/ > Proudly sponsored by: > Fast Lane Cycles (www.fastlanecycles.com) > Dixie Cycles > Bell Helmets, and EBC Brakes > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now > http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 20 11:09:25 2003 From: Jason Picton To: Cc: DC Cycles Subject: RE: What does a good helmet cost these days Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:09:04 -0500 http://www.gomotoshop.com/ is an online dealer of Helmets, that has great prices. Just got a Suomy Spec-1r Replica for $300 which includes shipping.... They were easy to deal with and would do so again - Most of the helmets are last year's style if you go for a replica in Suomy or Shoei - this wasn't a big deal to me. They also have KBC and XSpeed, which are lesser known, but the top end KBC is pretty good - buddy is very happy with his - likes is better that his AGV or Shoei. I think Xspeed is the a copy of the Shoei RF900 for 2/3's the price - but has the same standard.... Jason From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 20 11:21:40 2003 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:21:18 -0500 From: Skip To: Dave Blumgart CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: What does a good helmet cost these days Dave Blumgart wrote: > > I've been away from riding since the early 80's, but am considering > return to the sport. Today I went looking for a Snell rated full face > helmet on the net so I could test ride some bikes. The pricing caused a > serious case of WTF?!? Are helmets really $250-300 these days? well, noone has posted this so far, so I will. http://www.genuineaccessories.com/Closeout/COSTAR2.htm $69.95, snell2000 certified. --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 20 11:30:08 2003 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:29:59 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Towing Service To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Rob Sharp wrote: > On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:36:48 -0800 (PST), Carl Schelin wrote > > > Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear. Each time I tried to start it, it ran > > for 2 to 3 seconds and then puttered out, as if it was out of fuel. > > The engine light came on. > > A Harley with an "Engine Light" (check engine, I assume) , why am I not > suprised :) Sorry to poke fun at your misfortune Carl, but I get a kick > out > of the check engine light on a Harley. My Honda doesn't have one :) > It may have to do with the EFI module. The procedure is to turn on the ignition and the run/kill switch. The engine and (memory again; another light) come on and a power on self-test is run. When everything checks out, the lights go out and I can hit start. Neither the Suzuki or Rita's Honda have one and the old CB750 doesn't have one. > Rob > Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 20 11:34:26 2003 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:34:23 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Towing Service To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 03:24 PM 11/19/03 -0800, Carl Schelin wrote: > >Nope. EFI. I've also noticed that I get the spraying sound even when > >riding. It seems to match my throttle. Accelerate and it's continuous > >spraying sound. Back off to "maintain speed" and it's intermittent. > > "Spraying sound"? I'm not sure what you mean there... > I was talking to one of the boaters here. He said it was the fuel system pressurizing. After he said that, that is what the sound is. Like blowing up a balloon, which is what I initially reported to the dealer when I took her in the first time. > > >Anyway, it's in the shop now. We'll see what happens next. > > I'd like to hear what it was when you find out...just in case. :^) > No problem. As a troubleshooter, I always like to return info to the other troubleshooters :-) > -- Mike B. > Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 20 11:42:59 2003 From: "Charlie Ozark" To: DBLUMGART@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: What does a good helmet cost these days Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:30:56 -0500 once you've found a model that fits your head shape then by all means shop around on the net. a lot of places offer a closeout on last year's models. a year ago i found a shoei xspII, that retailed north of $650, at colemans for $450 (sale), and online for like $340. besides removable pads,weight, paint, and vents, other differences with full face helmets include the availabily of replacement shields and their ease of use. my helmet came bundled with two shields (tinted and non), a chin guard, breath guard, a fleece lined hemet bag, and a lightweight helmet sack. iirc arai will even do free inspections if you think you damadged your helmet (dropping it, low speed fall etc) >From: "Dave Blumgart" >To: >Subject: What does a good helmet cost these days >Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:14:17 -0500 > >I've been away from riding since the early 80's, but am considering >return to the sport. Today I went looking for a Snell rated full face >helmet on the net so I could test ride some bikes. The pricing caused a >serious case of WTF?!? Are helmets really $250-300 these days? > _________________________________________________________________ Need a shot of Hank Williams or Patsy Cline? The classic country stars are always singing on MSN Radio Plus. Try one month free! http://join.msn.com/?page=offers/premiumradio From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 20 11:59:02 2003 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:54:07 -0500 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Towing Service At 08:29 AM 11/20/03 -0800, Carl Schelin wrote: >It may have to do with the EFI module. The procedure is to turn on the >ignition and the run/kill switch. The engine and (memory again; another >light) come on and a power on self-test is run. When everything checks >out, the lights go out and I can hit start. Does the memory failure relate to the fuel pump pressurizing light on the speedo? Comes on while the fuel pump builds up pressure...takes about 2 or 3 seconds. Mine's amber-colored and is on the lower left quadrant of the speedo face. Didn't know it was related to a POST check of the ECM though. Thanks for the info! -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 20 11:59:05 2003 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:57:05 -0500 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Towing Service At 08:34 AM 11/20/03 -0800, Carl Schelin wrote: >--- Mike Bartman wrote: >> At 03:24 PM 11/19/03 -0800, Carl Schelin wrote: >> "Spraying sound"? I'm not sure what you mean there... > >I was talking to one of the boaters here. He said it was the fuel system >pressurizing. After he said that, that is what the sound is. Like blowing >up a balloon, which is what I initially reported to the dealer when I took >her in the first time. Ok, thanks. Your bike sounds different from mine then. Mine is a little whine, like an electric motor spinning at high speed for a second or two. (amazingly, that's what it is! :^) >> I'd like to hear what it was when you find out...just in case. :^) > >No problem. As a troubleshooter, I always like to return info to the other >troubleshooters :-) I don't know that I'd label myself a troubleshooter. Trouble-plinker maybe. :^) Got a lot to learn... -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 20 13:08:40 2003 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:07:21 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: Carl Schelin CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Towing Service Thinking ... electronics - modules - computer mapping memories.... You could have tried disconnecting the battery to dump the memory. Reconnect, start from scratch, called going back to factory default. Works on most cars. Bill Carl Schelin wrote: > --- Rob Sharp wrote: > > On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:36:48 -0800 (PST), Carl Schelin wrote > > > > > Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear. Each time I tried to start it, it ran > > > for 2 to 3 seconds and then puttered out, as if it was out of fuel. > > > The engine light came on. > > > > A Harley with an "Engine Light" (check engine, I assume) , why am I not > > suprised :) Sorry to poke fun at your misfortune Carl, but I get a kick > > out > > of the check engine light on a Harley. My Honda doesn't have one :) > > > > It may have to do with the EFI module. The procedure is to turn on the > ignition and the run/kill switch. The engine and (memory again; another > light) come on and a power on self-test is run. When everything checks > out, the lights go out and I can hit start. > > Neither the Suzuki or Rita's Honda have one and the old CB750 doesn't have > one. > > > Rob > > > > Carl > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now > http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 20 13:19:41 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: "William J. Huson" , Carl Schelin Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Towing Service Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:19:48 -0500 So I could disable a Harley with an EMP. Rob On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:07:21 -0500, William J. Huson wrote > Thinking ... electronics - modules - computer mapping memories.... > You could have tried disconnecting the battery to dump the memory. > Reconnect, start from scratch, called going back to factory default. > Works on most cars. > > Bill > > Carl Schelin wrote: > > > --- Rob Sharp wrote: > > > On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:36:48 -0800 (PST), Carl Schelin wrote > > > > > > > Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear. Each time I tried to start it, it ran > > > > for 2 to 3 seconds and then puttered out, as if it was out of fuel. > > > > The engine light came on. > > > > > > A Harley with an "Engine Light" (check engine, I assume) , why am I not > > > suprised :) Sorry to poke fun at your misfortune Carl, but I get a kick > > > out > > > of the check engine light on a Harley. My Honda doesn't have one :) > > > > > > > It may have to do with the EFI module. The procedure is to turn on the > > ignition and the run/kill switch. The engine and (memory again; another > > light) come on and a power on self-test is run. When everything checks > > out, the lights go out and I can hit start. > > > > Neither the Suzuki or Rita's Honda have one and the old CB750 doesn't have > > one. > > > > > Rob > > > > > > > Carl > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now > > http://companion.yahoo.com/ -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 20 13:26:13 2003 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:41:43 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Rider Down On Thu, 20 Nov 2003, Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS) wrote: > A friend of mine was killed on Sunday when a car pulled out in front of him > in Westminster on Rt.31 the car was trying to make an illegal u-turn. It's > been tough cause he had three kids and wife. He as leading the group of 5 Damn dude, that is awful. :-( My prayers out to his family and friends. -- Wayne From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 20 13:51:51 2003 From: "Doug Allis" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Bike blew Over don't call insurance! Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:40:23 -0500 Based on my recent experiance, I would do what you can to work out an agreement with the other party that avoids getting insurance companies involved at all.... unless you want to pay more for insurance... In fact, I'd avoid calling your agent asking for advice, unless you know that the agent will not record it as an incident. Some insurance companies are now tracking incidents reported to them, and using incident information in calculating rates. Whether they pay a claim or not. My agent told me this as I asked him whether I should file a claim. But anyway , my experiance is that too manyl claims on any of your motorcylce, auto or home insurance policies will increase the likelihood that your rates will go up for all of them. I'd been accident free for 15 years, as had been my wife. About 2 years ago she had a accident with our Jeep, causing $2,500 damage to our Jeep and $3,000 damage to the other car. Although clearly a significant accident and both parties filed claims but our rates did not change. We got one freebeee. But the incident was on the record. This year both my wife and I had small incidents. I caused $800.00 damage to another car w/ our boat trailer and my wife backed into a neighbor causing less than $1,000 damage. Our rates went up $500 for the cars, $500 for the motorcycle, and $300 for our house... and they will stay that way for 3 years..... I've tried to get lower rates elsewhere, and ended up increasing deductables and lowering coverage on one car and motorcycle to liability only. Save the insurace for the event you can't afford to pay for, the really costly incidents... Avoid small claimes. _________________________________________________________________ Gift-shop online from the comfort of home at MSN Shopping! No crowds, free parking. http://shopping.msn.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 20 14:01:16 2003 From: purdyjeremy@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: So whatever happened to Bell? Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 19:00:33 +0000 X-Authenticated-Sender: cHVyZHlqZXJlbXlAYXR0Lm5ldA== The latest DennisKirk catalog had several Bell helmets listed and many of them were Snell M2000 certified. For a decent price too. I bought one and am very happy with the fit and quality of the helmet, so it appears they are going to try to make a run as a top end manufacturer again. I wear open-face, so YMMV with the full face versions. Also, I can't recall, but I believe the sticker inside the helmet said it was made in Pakistan or some such. If that matters to you, send me a note off-line and I will check tonight. -- Jeremy Purdy '00 Yamaha V-Star >Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:58:20 -0800 (PST) >From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" >Subject: Re: So whatever happened to Bell? >To: Mike Bartman , > Dave Blumgart , dc-cycles@XXXXXX > >--- Mike Bartman wrote: >> At 02:39 PM 11/19/03 -0500, Dave Blumgart wrote: >> >But I note that *nobody* in this thread has recommended >> them. I ask because I've found a site with some reasonably >> priced snell 2000-approved Bells. Is this yet another case >> of American quality being overtaken? >> >> My understanding is that Bell has been off the market for >> many years, and >> only recently bought their name back and re-entered it. > > >Bell has continued to make prime-quality auto and kart racing >helmets; I still use a Bell Snell '95 helmet for >autocrossing. > >But they sold off the Bell name for moto helmets many years >ago. As Mike has stated above, they bought the Bell moto name >back a few months ago, and plan to start producing >top-quality moto helmets again. > >-- Larry From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 20 14:03:55 2003 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 14:03:50 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: test ignore Repaired list archive app - testing ability. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org Support Legislation requiring Voter-Verified Paper Trail for 2004 Elections http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/348035553 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 20 14:11:00 2003 From: "Rob Keiser" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Rider Down Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:59:31 -0500 So sorry to hear this. My condolences. Rob '98 VFR800 _________________________________________________________________ Has one of the new viruses infected your computer? Find out with a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee. Take the FreeScan now! http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 20 14:14:50 2003 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 14:10:24 -0500 To: "Rob Sharp" , "William J. Huson" , Carl Schelin From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Towing Service Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 01:19 PM 11/20/03 -0500, Rob Sharp wrote: >So I could disable a Harley with an EMP. A modern one. Certainly an injected one. Won't do much to an old one. Of course, something similar can be said of almost everything these days... Wonder when the computer controlled pencil will replace the #2? -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 20 14:19:16 2003 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 14:19:38 -0500 To: "Doug Allis" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Bike blew Over don't call insurance! At 01:40 PM 11/20/03 -0500, Doug Allis wrote: >But anyway , my experiance is that too manyl claims on any of your >motorcylce, auto or home insurance policies will increase the likelihood >that your rates will go up for all of them. It seems to depend which kind of vehicle insurance the claim is against. If it's liability (i.e. your fault), then your rates are likely to go up for a while at least (and with rates always increasing, the base rate will catch up before your elevated ones go away, so they never really drop again). Liability is paid out based on your driving ability, so the worse your record, the higher your premiums. If the claim is against comprehensive then the effect will be on *everyone's* rates in your area. Comprehensive is usually a "no fault" kind of thing (vandalism for instance), and is seen as endemic to an area, not an owner. Rates are calculated based on claim payouts for the region (sometimes zipcode), not on your single incident. The more people have problems where you live, the higher your rates will be, whether you personally are one of the claimants or not. That's why premiums can go up or down when you move to a new area. Making claims will likely, eventually, raise your rates, but not making claims won't necessarily keep them down...others may be filing claims in your area no matter what you decide to do. Sort of a "prisoner's dilemma". Sort of. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 20 15:09:32 2003 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'DCCycles'" Subject: MAW & Helmets Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 15:13:55 -0500 corey contributed: answered my own question by digging around on bbb.org. here's what they had to say: "The company has an unsatisfactory record with the Better Business Bureau due to unanswered complaints and a pattern of complaints. Some complainants allege " Bottom line: MAW is useful to quote when calling Dennis Kirk for their match price minus a dollar. FWIW, DK'll ask for the magazine issue and page number so have it handy -- but -- Chaparral is often cheaper when you add shipping and hassle. Re: Helmets My first helmet was a Bell -- big ole heavy open face. The subsequent four have been Shoei (RF105-1000 & a X-8) Great advice so far but here's my [alt]155: Buy locally. (Check out open houses -- see Winding Roads - Motorcycle Times Magazine) Try 'em on. Wear them around the store. Be sensitive to pressure points. The X-8 was my second Shoei. It felt good on a test ride (CAD let me try it.) Later found that I would get a red painful dot on my forehead after ~ 6hours so , it became my commuter helmet. So, there are Arai heads, Shoe X heads and Shoei RF heads as well as the HJC, Nolan . . .heads. Prices: The Shoei RF 800 was snagged at a Cycles USA open house for less than internet price ($219 IIRC) I've seen RF900s for ~$250 at local shops maybe cheaper now that the 1000 is out. The Shoei RF1000 was even cheaper . . . But, we can't all win the door prize at the Italian Moto Fest :^D. BTW, the RF1000 is great, much lighter than my 800, a tad quieter (may just be the newness), and the vents make a lot more sense. Carl in Bethesda Corey claimed: "Red meat is not bad for you. Fuzzy green meat is bad for you." Good rule of thumb but there are exceptions, boy howdy are there exceptions. =8^O Carl. S. Custer Multidisciplinary Microbiologist USDA FSIS OPHS MD MIB From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 20 15:29:17 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: "Rob Sharp" , "William J. Huson" , Carl Schelin CC: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Towing Service Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 15:29:07 -0500 > > From: "Rob Sharp" > > So I could disable a Harley with an EMP. > I think you can disable a Harley just by riding it. LOL, Bob (sorry, couldn't resist) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 20 15:33:31 2003 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 15:33:22 -0500 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: mike@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: test ignore X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 Sorry, you failed. :-) Scooter In a message dated 11/20/2003 2:03:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, mike@XXXXXX writes: > > > Repaired list archive app - testing ability. > > ___________________________________________ > Mike Troutman > http://www.troutman.org > > Support Legislation requiring Voter-Verified Paper > Trail for 2004 > Elections > http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/348035553 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 20 15:35:59 2003 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 15:35:28 -0500 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: omni@XXXXXX, rob@XXXXXX, bhuson@XXXXXX, dm_gsxr@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Towing Service X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 In a message dated 11/20/2003 2:10:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, omni@XXXXXX writes: > Wonder when the computer controlled pencil will replace the #2? > > -- Mike B. Pencil? What's that? #2? Is that like Number 5 from "Short Circuit"? :-) Scooter From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 20 16:38:06 2003 From: "Shigeru Honda" To: "dc-cycles" Subject: Re: Busted for lane splitting - UPDATE Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 16:31:01 -0500 I went to see an attorney today. $850 ouch! he said there is no guarantee but will try everything to reduce it to "improper driving/riding" from "reckless". The cop who pulled me over most likely don't have hard evidence that I was lane splitting or how fast I was going. he mentioned that there are 4 judges in Arlington court and 2 of them are really nasty & hate bikes (that's discrimination, damn it!) Also, he said that none of his client went to jail, including the ones going way over the speed limit and those who wheelied and ran in to a car on highway. Never know what will happen to me but that was a relief... However, the wrost result can be $2,500 fine and jail time... ouch! --------------------- Shigeru Honda 98 SuperHawk (Street) 99 750 SS (Track #881) 02 MZ Skorpion Tour (New Toy) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shigeru Honda" To: "dc-cycles" Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 11:51 AM Subject: Re: Busted for lane splitting (details) > Thank you all for the advice, I just made an appointment for next week with > a lawyer below; > > Bose Law Firm, PLLC > McLean, VA 22102 > Telephone: 703/981-7726 Fax: 703/940-1260 > Email: bose@XXXXXX Web Site: www.vatrafficlaw.com > > Anyone had any experience with this lawyer? > > according to the web site, the fee will be $850 with a discount rate ($1200 > w/o discount). > ouch! but that's better than spending time in jail, I guess. > > bad things keep happening to me with my new MZ Skorpion. > I get parking tickets with this bike and the other day it stopped running on > Dulles toll road. It turned out to be water in the carb. > > --------------------- > Shigeru Honda > 98 SuperHawk (Street) > 99 750 SS (Track #881) > 02 MZ Skorpion Tour (New Toy) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Troutman" > To: "dc-cycles" > Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 10:09 AM > Subject: Re: Busted for lane splitting (details) > > > > This is a good site to get background on reckless. > > > > http://vatrafficlaw.com/reckless.html > > > > Apparently the courts are handing down bigger fines and suspensions more > > often due to political pressure. If I were you, I would somehow push the > > issue that you were not lane splitting intentionally. You were forced > into > > it by aggressive drivers, high winds, and star alignment. > > > > Again, more details would help. > > > > > > > > ___________________________________________ > > Mike Troutman > > http://www.troutman.org/vfr > > 1997 Honda VFR 750 > > AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ > > NMA http://www.motorists.org > > > > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 20 17:00:13 2003 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 14:00:05 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Towing Service To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 08:29 AM 11/20/03 -0800, Carl Schelin wrote: > > >It may have to do with the EFI module. The procedure is to turn on the > >ignition and the run/kill switch. The engine and (memory again; another > >light) come on and a power on self-test is run. When everything checks > >out, the lights go out and I can hit start. > > Does the memory failure relate to the fuel pump pressurizing light on > the speedo? Comes on while the fuel pump builds up pressure...takes > about 2 or 3 seconds. Mine's amber-colored and is on the lower left > quadrant of the speedo face. Don't recall. I thought it was the security light and the engine light but it might be engine and some fuel pressure light. I'll have to wait until I see her again. I think ours is different though. I only have two or three lights on the face of the speedometer and none of them are amber colored. > > Didn't know it was related to a POST check of the ECM though. Thanks > for the info! > Yea, when I brought it in for a quick question once it was because I held down the odo reset while turning on the ignition. It set off some diagnostics on the odometer line of the speedometer. > -- Mike B. > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 20 17:03:46 2003 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 14:03:43 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Towing Service To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 08:34 AM 11/20/03 -0800, Carl Schelin wrote: > >--- Mike Bartman wrote: > >> At 03:24 PM 11/19/03 -0800, Carl Schelin wrote: > > >> "Spraying sound"? I'm not sure what you mean there... > > > >I was talking to one of the boaters here. He said it was the fuel > >system pressurizing. After he said that, that is what the sound is. > >Like blowing up a balloon, which is what I initially reported to > >the dealer when I took her in the first time. > > Ok, thanks. Your bike sounds different from mine then. Mine is a > little whine, like an electric motor spinning at high speed for a > second or two. (amazingly, that's what it is! :^) > And that may be why mine has a problem. A sound that's not supposed to be there is now there. > >> I'd like to hear what it was when you find out...just in case. :^) > > > >No problem. As a troubleshooter, I always like to return info to the > other troubleshooters :-) > > I don't know that I'd label myself a troubleshooter. Trouble-plinker > maybe. :^) > As long as you're trying to answer questions and getting more info, you're a trouble-shooter. Even if you're just reading the messages, you're learning something. > Got a lot to learn... > As long as I'm still alive I have a lot to learn. > -- Mike B. > Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 20 17:06:33 2003 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 14:06:31 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Towing Service To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- "William J. Huson" wrote: > Thinking ... electronics - modules - computer mapping memories.... You > could > have tried disconnecting the battery to dump the memory. Reconnect, > start > from scratch, called going back to factory default. Works on most cars. > Possibly. What would have happened if they used a little clock battery to maintain settings? Then I have to find the "short memory" setting. I've got an extended warranty. I'm going to get my money's worth :-) and learn what's wrong so I can try and fix it myself when I have to. I've got to break out my service manual and check what Mike and the dealer said about sensors etc. > Bill Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 20 17:11:50 2003 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 14:11:47 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: MAW & Helmets To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- "Custer, Carl" wrote: > Great advice so far but here's my [alt]155: Shouldn't that be "2[alt]155" or are you just giving half of your thoughts ;-) > Carl in Bethesda > > Carl. S. Custer > Multidisciplinary Microbiologist > USDA FSIS OPHS MD MIB You're one of the "Men in Black"? Alternately, what's your OID? Evil Overlord Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 20 17:26:56 2003 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 17:19:48 -0500 To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX, Carl Schelin From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Re: Towing Service Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 03:29 PM 11/20/03 -0500, Bob Meyer wrote: > >> >> From: "Rob Sharp" >> >> So I could disable a Harley with an EMP. >> >I think you can disable a Harley just by riding it. Yes, you can...but it can take 100,000 or more miles to do it. ;^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 20 17:26:58 2003 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 17:27:59 -0500 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Towing Service At 02:06 PM 11/20/03 -0800, Carl Schelin wrote: > >break out my service manual and check what Mike and the dealer said about >sensors etc. The regular shop manual has info about what sensors are where, and how they are connected to the ECM, but it doesn't have a whole lot of info about the ECM itself, or how to diagnose problems with it. That's in another manual...which I don't have (so far :^). -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 20 17:42:27 2003 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 14:42:21 -0800 (PST) From: Leon Begeman Subject: Killing Mike's Harley, was: Towing Service. To: Mike Bartman Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > >> From: "Rob Sharp" > >I think you can disable a Harley just by riding it. > > Yes, you can...but it can take 100,000 or more miles > to do it. ;^) > > -- Mike B. Hell, I'm pretty sure I can kill one a lot sooner than that. I've ridden a few bikes 100K miles, they need to live a very coddled life to go that far. Ride 'em hard and put 'em up wet and they'll quit in less than 40K miles. If Mike lets me borrow his bike to prove this, does anyone want to ride a couple of SS1Ks on dirt. I think it would be really cool to do it from Fairbanks to Deadhorse and back OR Baie Comeau to Happy Valley and back OR the Dusty Butt 1000 route. We could also consider going to Cabo San Luca in the winter, I really don't want to go there in the summer. Leon. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 20 18:24:04 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Leon Begeman , Mike Bartman Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Killing Mike's Harley, was: Towing Service. Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 18:24:14 -0500 WHOA, I am so mis quoted. I didn't say that line below. I think it's funny tho :) Rob On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 14:42:21 -0800 (PST), Leon Begeman wrote > --- Mike Bartman wrote: > > >> From: "Rob Sharp" > > >I think you can disable a Harley just by riding it. > > > > Yes, you can...but it can take 100,000 or more miles > > to do it. ;^) > > > > -- Mike B. > > Hell, I'm pretty sure I can kill one a lot sooner than > that. I've ridden a few bikes 100K miles, they need > to live a very coddled life to go that far. Ride 'em > hard and put 'em up wet and they'll quit in less than > 40K miles. > > If Mike lets me borrow his bike to prove this, does > anyone want to ride a couple of SS1Ks on dirt. I think > it would be really cool to do it from Fairbanks to > Deadhorse and back OR Baie Comeau to Happy Valley and > back OR the Dusty Butt 1000 route. We could also > consider going to Cabo San Luca in the winter, I > really don't want to go there in the summer. > > Leon. > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now > http://companion.yahoo.com/ -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 20 18:32:22 2003 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 15:32:13 -0800 (PST) From: Leon Begeman Subject: Re: Killing Mike's Harley, was: Towing Service. To: Rob Sharp , Mike Bartman Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Oops, sorry Rob, re-reading the original post, it appears it was Bob Meyer who had the idea about disabling a Harley by riding it, Rob Sharp wanted to use EMP. Have I got it right this time? Leon --- Rob Sharp wrote: > WHOA, > > I am so mis quoted. I didn't say that line below. > I think it's funny tho :) > > Rob > > On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 14:42:21 -0800 (PST), Leon > Begeman wrote > > --- Mike Bartman wrote: > > > >> From: "Rob Sharp" > > > >I think you can disable a Harley just by riding > it. > > > > > > Yes, you can...but it can take 100,000 or more > miles > > > to do it. ;^) > > > > > > -- Mike B. > > > > Hell, I'm pretty sure I can kill one a lot sooner > than > > that. I've ridden a few bikes 100K miles, they > need > > to live a very coddled life to go that far. Ride > 'em > > hard and put 'em up wet and they'll quit in less > than > > 40K miles. > > > > If Mike lets me borrow his bike to prove this, > does > > anyone want to ride a couple of SS1Ks on dirt. I > think > > it would be really cool to do it from Fairbanks to > > Deadhorse and back OR Baie Comeau to Happy Valley > and > > back OR the Dusty Butt 1000 route. We could also > > consider going to Cabo San Luca in the winter, I > > really don't want to go there in the summer. > > > > Leon. > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now > > http://companion.yahoo.com/ > > > -- > Rob Sharp > 1996 Honda VFR 750 > 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme > SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA > Network Security Engineer > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 20 20:01:53 2003 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 17:01:50 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: The results are in To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX The turn signal security sensor module has failed. Basically the failure is keeping my bike from being stolen :-/ He said it's not uncommon. They're ordering a new one. I hope it doesn't take a month. Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 20 20:54:03 2003 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 17:53:58 -0800 (PST) From: Ryan Santoso Subject: Re: Busted for lane splitting - UPDATE To: Shigeru Honda , dc-cycles Damn, screw engineering, i need to go to Law School!!!! Ryan --- Shigeru Honda wrote: > I went to see an attorney today. $850 ouch! > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 20 20:54:07 2003 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 20:52:55 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: Carl Schelin CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: The results are in Carl Schelin wrote: > The turn signal security sensor module has failed. Basically the failure > is keeping my bike from being stolen :-/ He said it's not uncommon. > > They're ordering a new one. I hope it doesn't take a month. > > Carl Say WHAT? Turn signal security sensor??? Good grief. Did your tech mech take lessons from our present crop of politicians in the fine art of baffle `em with bullshit? I'd ask to see wiring diagrams, circuitry, and have them point out exactly how a turn signal module caused engine ignition failure. Sheesh... Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 20 21:05:48 2003 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 18:05:45 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: The results are in To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- "William J. Huson" wrote: > Carl Schelin wrote: > > > The turn signal security sensor module has failed. Basically the > failure > > is keeping my bike from being stolen :-/ He said it's not uncommon. > > > > They're ordering a new one. I hope it doesn't take a month. > > > > Carl > > Say WHAT? Turn signal security sensor??? Good grief. Did your tech > mech > take lessons from our present crop of politicians in the fine art of > baffle > `em with bullshit? I'd ask to see wiring diagrams, circuitry, and have > them > point out exactly how a turn signal module caused engine ignition > failure. > Sheesh... > I just looked at the security circuit diagram in the softail service manual. There is a "Turn Signal & Security Module" listed. It might also explain the loss of _several_ right turn signal bulbs and a few left ones (if you recall my previous e-mails). > Bill Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Nov 20 23:10:29 2003 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 23:25:56 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Cold ride, cool helmet Heading to the track in the AM, so needed to slam the bike and test ride it. Damn, it's cold out there at 10pm :-) Leathers were reasonably warm, but my chin just about froze off. I think this other item has been posted here before, but here it is again - http://blogs.motorbiker.org/mikewerner/Blog.nsf/dx/10082003104451MIKCA5.htm -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 07:47:35 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 07:47:32 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Michael Jordan Reply-To: Michael Jordan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Paging Collin Collin - Sean says you were looking for me (missed your page) Contact here or: mike@XXXXXX (work) michaelj@XXXXXX (belt) Michael From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 09:41:10 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 06:41:07 -0800 (PST) From: Sally Wood Subject: What does a good helmet cost these days To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX On Wed, 19 Nov 2003, Dave Blumgart wrote: > Are helmets really $250-300 these days? >>Most of them. A Shoei or Arai (considered top brands) will run you more like $500. ...or, you could just toddle on over to Paris where I got my Shoei helmet for around $200(US). :^) There are a bunch of great bike shops within a stone's throw of the Arc de Triomphe. Sally Weaver '01 YZF600R __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 10:16:17 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 10:16:13 -0500 From: "Chris Norloff" Reply-To: To: "List-dc cycles" Subject: FWD: SportVue=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=99?= heads-up display unit Interesting! SportVue)B™ lightweight helmet and visor-mounted heads-up display unit http://www.motionresearch.com/products.htm From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 10:40:56 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 10:40:16 -0500 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: bhuson@XXXXXX, dm_gsxr@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: The results are in X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 >From Carl's description, it sounds like he has a security system on his bike and one of the sensors is in the turnsignal stalk. This sensor failed and is telling the bike that someone is attempting to steal his bike. Carl, correct me if I'm wrong. Scooter (mechanically challenged) In a message dated 11/20/2003 8:52:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, bhuson@XXXXXX writes: > > > Carl Schelin wrote: > > > The turn signal security sensor module has failed. Basically the failure > > is keeping my bike from being stolen :-/ He said it's not uncommon. > > > > They're ordering a new one. I hope it doesn't take a month. > > > > Carl > > Say WHAT? Turn signal security sensor??? Good grief. Did your tech mech > take lessons from our present crop of politicians in the fine art of baffle > `em with bullshit? I'd ask to see wiring diagrams, circuitry, and have them > point out exactly how a turn signal module caused engine > ignition failure. > Sheesh... > > Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 10:43:08 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 07:43:02 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Weaver Subject: Re: What does a good helmet cost these days To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: swood_yzf@XXXXXX Sally's referring to her Euro equivalent of the RF900. I think the plane fare involved in that scheme might add just a *little* extra to the cost though. ;^) Seriously, though, try some of the European online dealers when searching for helmet deals. Due to the volume that they deal in, some of them might be cheap enough that even with shipping you can beat the prices of domestic dealers. I've found that most of these places are more than happy to ship to the U.S. I've bought a number bike accessories this way. (FYI - Euro certification standards are of similar, if not higher, spec than DOT/SNELL so don't worry about them being unsafe.) Chris Weaver --- Sally Wood (ahem.. that's "Weaver" not "Wood" if you don't mind!) wrote: > ...or, you could just toddle on over to Paris where > I > got my Shoei helmet for around $200(US). :^) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 10:52:30 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 10:52:22 -0500 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: cnorloff@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: SportVue=?ISO-8859-1?B?mSBoZWFkcy11cCBkaXNwbGF5IHVuaXQ=?= X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 Cool but, I don't know if I'd want that thing stuck on the front of my visor like that. Plus, what if you change visors? Does it come off and on easily? Now, when they integrate it into the helmet to prject up onto the visor like they can do with cars, then I'll get one. :-) Scooter In a message dated 11/21/2003 10:16:13 AM Eastern Standard Time, cnorloff@XXXXXX writes: > > Interesting! > > SportVue)B™ lightweight helmet and visor-mounted heads-up > display unit > > http://www.motionresearch.com/products.htm From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 10:56:08 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 07:56:06 -0800 (PST) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: What does a good helmet cost these days On Fri, 21 Nov 2003, Sally Wood wrote: > ...or, you could just toddle on over to Paris where I got my Shoei > helmet for around $200(US). Yes, but then you'd be in _Paris_. Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 10:59:23 2003 From: "Gary Foreman" To: Subject: Speaking of helmets (Shameless FS Spam) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:01:00 -0500 I have a nice dirt bike helmet and gloves for sale on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2444332742&ssP ageName=ADME:L:DS:US:8 It's a long link, you can just enter the item number 2444332742 Gary Foreman TL Owners Club http://www.tl1000.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 11:00:06 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 10:53:05 -0500 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: The results are in At 05:01 PM 11/20/03 -0800, Carl Schelin wrote: >The turn signal security sensor module has failed. Basically the failure >is keeping my bike from being stolen :-/ He said it's not uncommon. > >They're ordering a new one. I hope it doesn't take a month. Weird. I would have expected it to keep the bike from getting started at all, not shut it down in a few seconds. I wonder if the "not uncommon" is related to the location? It's near the battery box, which puts it pretty close to the rear engine cylinder...heat and electronics don't usually go well together. You've ridden some pretty long stretches on that bike...maybe it just got cooked? I asked a couple of folks at Battley's last night about it. Their initial guesses were voltage regulator or one of the engine sensors. The electrical system manual for Softails is about $56...I still don't own one. ;^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 11:00:26 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:00:52 -0500 To: "William J. Huson" , Carl Schelin From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: The results are in Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 08:52 PM 11/20/03 -0500, William J. Huson wrote: >Carl Schelin wrote: > >> The turn signal security sensor module has failed. Basically the failure >> is keeping my bike from being stolen :-/ He said it's not uncommon. >Say WHAT? Turn signal security sensor??? Good grief. Did your tech mech >take lessons from our present crop of politicians in the fine art of baffle >`em with bullshit? I'd ask to see wiring diagrams, circuitry, and have them >point out exactly how a turn signal module caused engine ignition failure. >Sheesh... On a modern Harley there is one module that handles cancelling of turn signals after a turn as well as being the basis of the security system (which is optional). If you get the security system (either the "smart siren" or the "pager", or both) the parts plug into the base unit which is standard with the bike. The reason for combining the two is that both need a tilt sensor, a timer and some other parts, and the ability to control the turn signal lamps...the turn signals get cancelled shortly after the bike leans far enough to indicate the turn has been completed, and the security alarm goes off if the bike gets stood up or otherwise moved much, and part of the alarm function is to flash the lights in a strange pattern (alternating sides...looks vaguely police-ish). I think the turn signals will also cancel if you go far enough without turning, and I know the security system will reset itself after a few minutes of being left alone. The security system does have the ability to kill the engine so if it's malfunctioning, that could easily be a symptom. I don't know if that's what's really wrong with Carl's bike, but it does make sense that it could be. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 11:03:19 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:02:45 -0500 To: Wayne Edelen , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Cold ride, cool helmet At 11:25 PM 11/20/03 -0500, Wayne Edelen wrote: >Damn, it's cold out there at 10pm :-) Leathers were reasonably >warm, but my chin just about froze off. My H-D helmet (made by HJC) has a removable chin guard...closes the gap between your chin bar and throat. Probably to increase fogging potential... :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 11:05:10 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 10:47:42 -0500 To: Leon Begeman From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Killing Mike's Harley, was: Towing Service. Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 02:42 PM 11/20/03 -0800, Leon Begeman wrote: >--- Mike Bartman wrote: >> >> From: "Rob Sharp" >> >I think you can disable a Harley just by riding it. >> >> Yes, you can...but it can take 100,000 or more miles >> to do it. ;^) > >Hell, I'm pretty sure I can kill one a lot sooner than >that. I've ridden a few bikes 100K miles, they need >to live a very coddled life to go that far. Ride 'em >hard and put 'em up wet and they'll quit in less than >40K miles. Fail to take proper care of anything and it will die much sooner than otherwise. What's your point? >If Mike lets me borrow his bike to prove this, does >anyone want to ride a couple of SS1Ks on dirt. Why don't you just start on the south side of the Grand Canyon and head north? that should kill it in a mile or less... This is just silly. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 11:10:55 2003 From: "Julian Halton" To: Subject: Riding Proficiency 101 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:11:05 -0500 Rear view mirrors: I find I can adjust them for optimal view depending on rider position (tuck vs. upright). Of course this is a hindrance when I change position mid-ride and find myself tearing upper back muscles to check my six. I am developing the bad habit of checking my six less than when I do in my car, the reason being that I am that much more conscious of the road surface and what my wheels are about to go over than who is behind me. What's a good balance? When cornering I tend not to look at all in my rearview- only on the straight-aways. Cornering Have yet to find a satisfactory answer to what should I do when I take a corner too hot. Hough ( proficient motorcycling) says lean the bike harder and roll on the throttle- his stress being if you were looking you would not be in this predicament. If I need to slow down do I ease off the throttle (thus losing traction, according to Hough), do I blip my back brake? or do I straighten the bike, apply the brakes and then re-assess curve Thanks again to the guys that taught me at NOVA Alexandria this year. I was coming back from Baltimore on the 95 and hit my engine cut off switch without noticing. When I realized there was no throttle response I ran through the checklist, found it in the off position, paused briefly to think about whether I could start a bike at speed and started the engine. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 11:13:17 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:11:44 -0500 To: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX, bhuson@XXXXXX, dm_gsxr@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: The results are in Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 10:40 AM 11/21/03 -0500, ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: >>From Carl's description, it sounds like he has a security system on his bike and one of the sensors is in the turnsignal stalk. This sensor failed and is telling the bike that someone is attempting to steal his bike. Carl, correct me if I'm wrong. Close. The module is actually under the seat, near the battery box. Otherwise what you say is what I got from what he posted. All modern Harleys have this module. Many have the optional additions that add sirens or remote pagers to the security part of the system so the bike can call for help, either regular or "silent alarm" modes. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 11:13:32 2003 From: "Julian Halton" To: "Julian Halton" , Subject: Gear 101 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:13:42 -0500 What security system for a bike do you recommend within budget? Is the Dowco G-50 cover with anti-tampering siren worthwhile or would I be paying extra for an easily defeated piece of technology? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 11:17:05 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:15:52 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: Mike Bartman CC: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: The results are in Mike Bartman wrote: > At 08:52 PM 11/20/03 -0500, William J. Huson wrote: > >Carl Schelin wrote: > > > >> The turn signal security sensor module has failed. Basically the failure > >> is keeping my bike from being stolen :-/ He said it's not uncommon. > > >Say WHAT? Turn signal security sensor??? Good grief. Did your tech mech > >take lessons from our present crop of politicians in the fine art of baffle > >`em with bullshit? I'd ask to see wiring diagrams, circuitry, and have them > >point out exactly how a turn signal module caused engine ignition failure. > >Sheesh... > > On a modern Harley there is one module that handles cancelling of turn > signals after a turn as well as being the basis of the security system > (which is optional). If you get the security system (either the "smart > siren" or the "pager", or both) the parts plug into the base unit which is > standard with the bike. > > The reason for combining the two is that both need a tilt sensor, a timer > and some other parts, and the ability to control the turn signal > lamps...the turn signals get cancelled shortly after the bike leans far > enough to indicate the turn has been completed, and the security alarm goes > off if the bike gets stood up or otherwise moved much, and part of the > alarm function is to flash the lights in a strange pattern (alternating > sides...looks vaguely police-ish). I think the turn signals will also > cancel if you go far enough without turning, and I know the security system > will reset itself after a few minutes of being left alone. The security > system does have the ability to kill the engine so if it's malfunctioning, > that could easily be a symptom. > > I don't know if that's what's really wrong with Carl's bike, but it does > make sense that it could be. > > -- Mike B. h really? Gee, another *improvement*? Must be real tricky lean thinger to ignore the effect of centrifugal force in a turn. My Harley turn signals use the signal off the speedo to time them out. If they're on and I'm stopped they'll stay on until the battery runs out of juice. The only tilt sensor on my bike is in the ignition, an auto-cutoff when the bike leans over to 15 deg above horizontal. Unfortunately, the crash bars are like 28 deg so unless the bikes falls compltely flat the tilter thang doesn't work. Lo-sided once and had to chase the damn sliding bike to cut the engine off. Note to meself: If I buy a new Harley make sure the techies disconnect all those PITA *improvements*. Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 11:18:39 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:17:26 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: Fish Flowers CC: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: What does a good helmet cost these days Fish Flowers wrote: > On Fri, 21 Nov 2003, Sally Wood wrote: > > > ...or, you could just toddle on over to Paris where I got my Shoei > > helmet for around $200(US). > > Yes, but then you'd be in _Paris_. > > Fish. Yes, but helmet or no helmet, I'd rather be in Paris Hilton :-> From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 11:26:04 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 08:26:00 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: What does a good helmet cost these days To: "William J. Huson" , Fish Flowers Cc: DC-Cycles Yeah that would suck. One of the nicest cities in the world. Oh yeah, with a ducati shop right on the Champs. That place really sucks!!! --- "William J. Huson" wrote: > Fish Flowers wrote: > > > On Fri, 21 Nov 2003, Sally Wood wrote: > > > > > ...or, you could just toddle on over to Paris > where I got my Shoei > > > helmet for around $200(US). > > > > Yes, but then you'd be in _Paris_. > > > > Fish. > > Yes, but helmet or no helmet, I'd rather be in Paris > Hilton :-> > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 11:45:30 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 08:45:22 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Riding Proficiency 101 To: Julian Halton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Julian Halton wrote: > Cornering > Have yet to find a satisfactory answer to what should I > do when I take a > corner too hot. Hough ( proficient motorcycling) says > lean the bike harder > and roll on the throttle- his stress being if you were > looking you would not > be in this predicament. If I need to slow down do I ease > off the throttle > (thus losing traction, according to Hough), do I blip my > back brake? or do I > straighten the bike, apply the brakes and then re-assess > curve lesson 1: learn to never take a turn "too hot." if this is happening regularly, get yourself to the track or you'll be a stain before too long. -- tg __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 11:54:54 2003 From: "Julian Halton" To: "Tom Gimer" , Subject: Re: Riding Proficiency 101 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:55:04 -0500 Right..I believe I have a fair grasp of responsible riding..this note falls under the what if ........ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Gimer" To: "Julian Halton" ; Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 11:45 AM Subject: Re: Riding Proficiency 101 > --- Julian Halton wrote: > > Cornering > > Have yet to find a satisfactory answer to what should I > > do when I take a > > corner too hot. Hough ( proficient motorcycling) says > > lean the bike harder > > and roll on the throttle- his stress being if you were > > looking you would not > > be in this predicament. If I need to slow down do I ease > > off the throttle > > (thus losing traction, according to Hough), do I blip my > > back brake? or do I > > straighten the bike, apply the brakes and then re-assess > > curve > > lesson 1: learn to never take a turn "too hot." > > if this is happening regularly, get yourself to the track > or you'll be a stain before too long. > > > -- > tg > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now > http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 11:57:55 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:58:19 -0500 To: Mark Kitchell , "William J. Huson" , Fish Flowers From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: What does a good helmet cost these days Cc: DC-Cycles It wouldn't be a bad place, if it wasn't full of Frenchmen... -- Mike B. P.S. If anybody follows this up, please bottom-post. Next two top-post, and so on. We should be able to make this thread completely unreadable with a little more work... At 08:26 AM 11/21/03 -0800, Mark Kitchell wrote: >Yeah that would suck. One of the nicest cities in the >world. Oh yeah, with a ducati shop right on the >Champs. That place really sucks!!! > >> Fish Flowers wrote: >> > On Fri, 21 Nov 2003, Sally Wood wrote: >> > >> > > ...or, you could just toddle on over to Paris >> where I got my Shoei >> > > helmet for around $200(US). >> > >> > Yes, but then you'd be in _Paris_. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 12:02:08 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:55:21 -0500 To: "William J. Huson" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: The results are in Cc: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 11:15 AM 11/21/03 -0500, William J. Huson wrote: >h really? Gee, another *improvement*? Must be real tricky lean thinger to >ignore the effect of centrifugal force in a turn. Yep. :^) >The only tilt sensor on my >bike is in the ignition, an auto-cutoff when the bike leans over to 15 deg above >horizontal. That one's still there, but now it cuts if you are at or over a 45 degree lean for more than 1 second. Given that my floorboard supports start making sparks at just under 29 degrees, this seems adequate to handle a drop. ;^) >Note to meself: If I buy a new Harley make sure the techies disconnect all those PITA *improvements*. You might have to do some extensive rewiring to get rid of the signal/security module. Anything is possible though, with enough time, effort and money. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 12:05:40 2003 Subject: RE: What does a good helmet cost these days Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 12:05:36 -0500 From: "Dave Blumgart" To: "DC-Cycles" And it's so hard to understand them, it's like they've got a different word for everything.... Paris Hilton is much better, tho I'd make sure I had all my shots first. -----Original Message----- From: Mike Bartman [mailto:omni@XXXXXX] Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 11:58 AM To: Mark Kitchell; William J. Huson; Fish Flowers Cc: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: What does a good helmet cost these days It wouldn't be a bad place, if it wasn't full of Frenchmen... -- Mike B. P.S. If anybody follows this up, please bottom-post. Next two top-post, and so on. We should be able to make this thread completely unreadable with a little more work... At 08:26 AM 11/21/03 -0800, Mark Kitchell wrote: >Yeah that would suck. One of the nicest cities in the >world. Oh yeah, with a ducati shop right on the >Champs. That place really sucks!!! > >> Fish Flowers wrote: >> > On Fri, 21 Nov 2003, Sally Wood wrote: >> > >> > > ...or, you could just toddle on over to Paris >> where I got my Shoei >> > > helmet for around $200(US). >> > >> > Yes, but then you'd be in _Paris_. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 12:05:55 2003 Subject: Re: The results are in From: Brian Roach To: "William J. Huson" Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 21 Nov 2003 12:05:45 -0500 On Fri, 2003-11-21 at 11:15, William J. Huson wrote: > h really? Gee, another *improvement*? Must be real tricky lean thinger to > ignore the effect of centrifugal force in a turn. It sucks. My Harley had this and it was not what I would call a "feature" ... on the highway it wouldn't auto-cancel half the time. The key here is *half*. This means you end up having to pay attention to the thing (which you shouldn't), and just when you think it wasn't going to work and stab the button to turn the signal off manually, it would work, and you'd end up turning the signal back on. > Note to meself: If I buy a new Harley make sure the techies disconnect all those > PITA *improvements*. Which causes the "check engine" light to stay on. Been there, done that. Hated it. - Roach From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 12:06:10 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: Re: Riding Proficiency 101 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 12:05:42 -0500 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79035be75b72e5da720d7e57568c831317350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Julian asks: > Rear view mirrors: > I find I can adjust them for optimal view depending on rider position (tuck > vs. upright). Of course this is a hindrance when I change position mid-ride > and find myself tearing upper back muscles to check my six. I am developing > the bad habit of checking my six less than when I do in my car, the reason > being that I am that much more conscious of the road surface and what my > wheels are about to go over than who is behind me. What's a good balance? > When cornering I tend not to look at all in my rearview- only on the > straight-aways. [Dave] on my 11, I have them set such that I can see from a non tucked position, as much of the 4-5 & 7-8 o'clock positions as possible. I need the mirrors in tight traffic & bumper to bumper. If I'm tucked in, it's pretty unlikely I'll need the mirrors. I don't have a perfect 6 o'clock view as a result, but I can see enough, and can alter my position enough so I can check, should I need to. I find this helps me with overtaking / being overtaken and coming on slower traffic. This is what suits _my_riding_style best, because I can see a few more vehicles w/o the head check (which I do anyway, as a matter of principle). > Cornering > Have yet to find a satisfactory answer to what should I do when I take a > corner too hot. Hough ( proficient motorcycling) says lean the bike harder > and roll on the throttle- his stress being if you were looking you would not > be in this predicament. If I need to slow down do I ease off the throttle > (thus losing traction, according to Hough), do I blip my back brake? or do I > straighten the bike, apply the brakes and then re-assess curve [Dave] 1st, exit speed is far more important than entrance speed. While it doesn't make "cool" sense right now, learn to take the turn(s) abyssmally slow, and BE SMOOTH about it. DO NOT go faster until you go from entrance to apex to exit in one smooth fluid 'motion' or action. Once you can do this repeatably, then, you may increase speed. Taking a corner is a simple equation, but when you alter one of the factors of the equation just a tiny bit, you run the risk of coming up with the "wrong" answer. HTH Dave From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 12:08:16 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 09:08:01 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: What does a good helmet cost these days To: DC-Cycles --- Mike Bartman wrote: > It wouldn't be a bad place, if it wasn't full of > Frenchmen... OTOH, it's entirely devoid of Bartmen. "Jingo bells, jingo bells, jingo all the way..." -- Larry (flying to Paris on Christmas Day) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 12:09:38 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: What does a good helmet cost these days Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 12:09:13 -0500 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79cea940c6685543c4fc3b37ab23109f56350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c At MB's request, top posted... Heck, I didn't even snip it ... True, Paris, France is inhabited by Frenchmen... but also by French WIMMEN ! ;-) Dave Yates > It wouldn't be a bad place, if it wasn't full of Frenchmen... > > -- Mike B. > > P.S. If anybody follows this up, please bottom-post. Next two top-post, > and so on. We should be able to make this thread completely unreadable > with a little more work... > > At 08:26 AM 11/21/03 -0800, Mark Kitchell wrote: > >Yeah that would suck. One of the nicest cities in the > >world. Oh yeah, with a ducati shop right on the > >Champs. That place really sucks!!! > > > >> Fish Flowers wrote: > >> > On Fri, 21 Nov 2003, Sally Wood wrote: > >> > > >> > > ...or, you could just toddle on over to Paris > >> where I got my Shoei > >> > > helmet for around $200(US). > >> > > >> > Yes, but then you'd be in _Paris_. > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 12:13:15 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 09:13:12 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: What does a good helmet cost these days To: Dave Yates , DC-Cycles Like my loveley wife (-; --- Dave Yates wrote: > At MB's request, top posted... Heck, I didn't even > snip it ... > > True, Paris, France is inhabited by Frenchmen... > but also by French > WIMMEN ! ;-) > > Dave Yates > > > > It wouldn't be a bad place, if it wasn't full of > Frenchmen... > > > > -- Mike B. > > > > P.S. If anybody follows this up, please > bottom-post. Next two top-post, > > and so on. We should be able to make this thread > completely unreadable > > with a little more work... > > > > At 08:26 AM 11/21/03 -0800, Mark Kitchell wrote: > > >Yeah that would suck. One of the nicest cities > in the > > >world. Oh yeah, with a ducati shop right on the > > >Champs. That place really sucks!!! > > > > > >> Fish Flowers wrote: > > >> > On Fri, 21 Nov 2003, Sally Wood wrote: > > >> > > > >> > > ...or, you could just toddle on over to > Paris > > >> where I got my Shoei > > >> > > helmet for around $200(US). > > >> > > > >> > Yes, but then you'd be in _Paris_. > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 12:17:00 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 12:18:02 -0500 To: Tom Gimer , Julian Halton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Riding Proficiency 101 At 08:45 AM 11/21/03 -0800, Tom Gimer wrote: >lesson 1: learn to never take a turn "too hot." > >if this is happening regularly, get yourself to the track >or you'll be a stain before too long. Good advice, but a bit tricky to follow all the time. The main problem is "decreasing radius blind turns". There's at least one of those on 193 just outside the beltway in Virginia, and some of the beltway on/off ramps are like that too (Georgia Avenue for instance). If you go into it at what would be a maximum safe speed for the part you can see as you approach you will find that it's a bit too fast to finish the turn and you are likely to wipe out. The cure is never to enter an unfamiliar turn at maximum safe speed (perhaps this is what Tom was referring to?). Even if you can see all the way through the turn to start with, perspective can screw you anyway. Leave a big safety margin until you are familiar with the road...and maybe after that too (conditions change...gravel, dead animals, car parts, etc. can end up in your "line", and if you didn't leave room to change it mid-turn, you are screwed. Tracks don't usually have this sort of problem, do they?). With a safety margin you just "push harder" and tighten the turn when you find that it shrinks in radius. Perhaps a bit more exciting than you planned on, but usually survivable. Don't let other riders (who may be more experienced, on more capable bikes, or just more foolish) lead you to do anything you don't think is wise. Ditto for tailgating cars. Neither will have to pay the price if you do things wrong, so they don't get a say in the matter. If you are going slow enough that you develop a "train" of folks who want to go faster behind you, and there's no place for them to pass you, pull over somewhere and let them go by. Don't try to accommodate them by pushing past your safe limits. Braking in a hard turn is usually considered a Bad Idea (tm). In some cases easing off the throttle can be just as bad, and cranking on too much more too fast almost as bad. Anything that might break a tire loose, especially the rear, is likely to wash you out. Or so I hear...I've never pushed hard enough to find out on any bikes I've ridden (at least, not on pavement :^). I'm not a racer, on the track or on the street. I believe Tom, and several others here are though. Listen to them about bike dynamics near the edge of the envelope...that's where they try to live on the track. Listen to the MSF instructors and other very experienced folks here about practices to use to avoid getting too close to the edge of the envelope on the street. If anyone finds a bug in the above advice, please let me know. Thanks! -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 12:21:14 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 09:21:11 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Anyone Ipoding on their bike? To: DC Cycles I just got an Apple Ipod MP3 player. Mostly for non-moto use but it will come in very hand on long trips. About 500 hours of coninuous music! Anyone using an Ipod on a bike? Do you have any problems with skipping? Thanks __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 12:26:41 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 12:22:58 -0500 To: "Dave Yates" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Riding Proficiency 101 At 12:05 PM 11/21/03 -0500, Dave Yates wrote: >If I'm tucked in, it's pretty unlikely I'll need the mirrors. This reminds me of a line from an old movie, "Gumball Rally". As the hired Italian race driver prepares to start out, he reaches up and rips the rearview mirror off the windshield of the Ferrari he's driving, tosses it over the seat back, and says to the car's owner, his employer, "First rule of Italian racing: what is behind does not matter!" -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 12:27:07 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 09:26:45 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Anyone Ipoding on their bike? To: DC Cycles Yes, I need to proof-read. handy continuous lol --- Mark Kitchell wrote: > I just got an Apple Ipod MP3 player. Mostly for > non-moto use but it will come in very hand on long > trips. About 500 hours of coninuous music! > > Anyone using an Ipod on a bike? Do you have any > problems with skipping? Thanks > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now > http://companion.yahoo.com/ > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 12:33:07 2003 From: Sunil Doshi Subject: Re: Anyone Ipoding on their bike? Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 12:32:59 -0500 To: DC Cycles From what I understand, the iPod only turns the hard drive every 20 minutes (unless you change the "course" of your music (change playlists, albums)). So the chances of it skipping are pretty small. I've gone skiing with mine and it hasn't ever skipped. Never used mine on the bike, though. On Nov 21, 2003, at 12:21 PM, Mark Kitchell wrote: > I just got an Apple Ipod MP3 player. Mostly for > non-moto use but it will come in very hand on long > trips. About 500 hours of coninuous music! > > Anyone using an Ipod on a bike? Do you have any > problems with skipping? Thanks > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now > http://companion.yahoo.com/ > > sunil http://widepipe.org/ride/ '03 Honda Shadow ACE 750 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 12:38:05 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: Re: Riding Proficiency 101 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 12:37:39 -0500 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec797c614e32622e324b08b88584171b77c9350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c > >If I'm tucked in, it's pretty unlikely I'll need the mirrors. > > This reminds me of a line from an old movie, "Gumball Rally". As the hired > Italian race driver prepares to start out, he reaches up and rips the > rearview mirror off the windshield of the Ferrari he's driving, tosses it > over the seat back, and says to the car's owner, his employer, "First rule > of Italian racing: what is behind does not matter!" [Dave] It sounds cool, but in fact is foolhardy. Note that I said _pretty_unlikely. Even if you have the most horsepower, you might not have the best brakes, or the best handling or the most road courage - what have you. Heck, you might just want to screw with the Fbody ( Firebird / Camaro ) driver so they'll throw a block for you ( apologies Wayne, they're like the old 5.0 Mustangs now...) I'll take being passed any day over being surprised AND passed... I want to live to pass them back ;-) Dave From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 12:51:36 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:51:39 -0600 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Sean Jordan Subject: Re: Anyone Ipoding on their bike? MP3 players don't "skip." The OS might crash, whereupon you simply reboot your iPod. (Going on 1 year with my iPod and still loving it....thanks, iPop!) -Sean Jordan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 12:52:01 2003 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'DCCycles'" Cc: "'Silvera@XXXXXX'" Subject: Rider Down Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 12:56:26 -0500 Arthur Silver reported, "A friend of mine was killed on Sunday when a car pulled out in front of him in Westminster on Rt.31 the car was trying to make an illegal u-turn." I too am saddened by this loss. Was it avoidable? Dunno; I know of highly skilled riders that have been injured in similar circumstances. Rather that second guess, this tragedy should remind all of our vulnerability on two wheels and stress the need for concentration, skill, and good gear. "The crash happened when the Honda, driven by Maurice Piscacek, 62, of Prince George's County, tried to make a U-turn while traveling west on Md. 31, according to state police." Hanlon's razor comes to mind. Carl in Bethesda Watch those geezers (I'm turning 63 on Monday) To my" Great advice so far but here's my [alt]155:" Evil Overlord Carl Suggested: "Shouldn't that be "2[alt]155" or are you just giving half of your thoughts ;-)" O.K how about [alt] 50 [alt]155 [alt]? > Carl. S. Custer > Multidisciplinary Microbiologist > USDA FSIS OPHS MD MIB CS: "You're one of the "Men in Black"? Alternately, what's your OID?" Microbiological Issues Branch A.K.A. Microbiologists In Blue. OID? Oklahoma Insurance Division? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 12:54:45 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 12:53:34 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: Mike Bartman CC: Mark Kitchell , Fish Flowers , DC-Cycles Subject: Re: What does a good helmet cost these days Mike Bartman wrote: > It wouldn't be a bad place, if it wasn't full of Frenchmen... > > -- Mike B. Yeah, but Paris is also fulla French Women! Va-Va-Voom! From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 12:56:25 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 12:55:14 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: Brian Roach CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: The results are in Brian Roach wrote: > On Fri, 2003-11-21 at 11:15, William J. Huson wrote: > > > h really? Gee, another *improvement*? Must be real tricky lean thinger to > > ignore the effect of centrifugal force in a turn. > > It sucks. My Harley had this and it was not what I would call a > "feature" ... on the highway it wouldn't auto-cancel half the time. The > key here is *half*. This means you end up having to pay attention to the > thing (which you shouldn't), and just when you think it wasn't going to > work and stab the button to turn the signal off manually, it would work, > and you'd end up turning the signal back on. > > > Note to meself: If I buy a new Harley make sure the techies disconnect all those > > PITA *improvements*. > > Which causes the "check engine" light to stay on. Been there, done that. > Hated it. > > - Roach Pliers on the check engine light bulb *crunch*, problem solved. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 12:56:49 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: The results are in Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 12:56:43 -0500 > > From: Mike Bartman > > On a modern Harley there is one module that handles cancelling of turn > signals after a turn as well as being the basis of the security system > (which is optional). If you get the security system (either the "smart > siren" or the "pager", or both) the parts plug into the base unit which is > standard with the bike. Darn. And here I thought it was to make sure nobody stole your turn signals! Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" '92 ST1100, "red STag" '02 919, "still looking for a name" A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers.... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 13:03:05 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 10:02:42 -0800 (PST) From: Leon Begeman Subject: Re: Killing Mike's Harley, was: Towing Service. To: Mike Bartman Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX The point is that bikes are much more fragile than cars. Even following all of the scheduled maintenance and NOT wrecking it, it is difficult to get a bike to survive to 100K miles. The original comment and your reply was: >> >I think you can disable a Harley just by riding it. >> >> Yes, you can...but it can take 100,000 or more miles >> to do it. ;^) That seemed to indicate that just riding the bike means it will likely last 100K miles. That isn't so. Leon. --- Mike Bartman wrote: > Fail to take proper care of anything and it will die > much sooner than > otherwise. What's your point? > At 02:42 PM 11/20/03 -0800, Leon Begeman wrote: > I've ridden a few bikes 100K miles, they need > to live a very coddled life to go that far. Ride'em > hard and put 'em up wet and they'll quit in less than > 40K miles. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 13:05:49 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: "Julian Halton" , "Julian Halton" , Subject: Re: Gear 101 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 13:05:42 -0500 > > From: "Julian Halton" > > What security system for a bike do you recommend within budget? Is the Dowco > G-50 cover with anti-tampering siren worthwhile or would I be paying extra > for an easily defeated piece of technology? > The first, without any question, piece of security gear is a serious lock and chain / cable. Only by anchoring your bike to something can you make it really hard to steal. And note that a non-armored cable can be cut much more easily than a chain or armored cable. The problem with any alarm (and I say this even though I own one) is that people just ignore them. False alarms as so common that people just walk/drive right on by. Only if your close enough to hear it, or buy a unit with a pager and are within pager range, will an alarm really stop a thief. OTOH, my alarm also disables the ignition, which makes the bike that much harder to take. See www.lockitt.com for a good write-up on motorcycle security. Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" '92 ST1100, "red STag" '02 919, "still looking for a name" A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers.... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 13:05:53 2003 Subject: Re: Anyone Ipoding on their bike? From: Brian Roach To: Mark Kitchell Cc: DC Cycles Date: 21 Nov 2003 13:05:45 -0500 On Fri, 2003-11-21 at 12:21, Mark Kitchell wrote: > Anyone using an Ipod on a bike? Do you have any > problems with skipping? Thanks If the hard drive in your iPod ever "skips" ... well, you'll know it :) (at 5400 RPM, with the head skimming a couple microns off the platter, a "skip" would be rather detrimental to the drive) - Roach From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 13:10:40 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 10:10:25 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Anyone Ipoding on their bike? To: Brian Roach Cc: DC Cycles ok perhaps not skip, but already when running it has stopped and started. --- Brian Roach wrote: > On Fri, 2003-11-21 at 12:21, Mark Kitchell wrote: > > > Anyone using an Ipod on a bike? Do you have any > > problems with skipping? Thanks > > If the hard drive in your iPod ever "skips" ... > well, you'll know it :) > > (at 5400 RPM, with the head skimming a couple > microns off the platter, a > "skip" would be rather detrimental to the drive) > > - Roach > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 13:17:00 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Anyone Ipoding on their bike? Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 13:16:52 -0500 > > From: Mark Kitchell > > I just got an Apple Ipod MP3 player. Mostly for > non-moto use but it will come in very hand on long > trips. About 500 hours of coninuous music! > And when you're capable of riding 500 hours straight, be sure to enter the Iron Butt! Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" '92 ST1100, "red STag" '02 919, "still looking for a name" A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers.... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 13:19:12 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 10:18:45 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Riding Proficiency 101 To: Julian Halton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX more throttle and lean is always first choice. often there is no time or space for second choice. --- Julian Halton wrote: > > Right..I believe I have a fair grasp of responsible > riding..this note falls > under the what if ........ > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom Gimer" > To: "Julian Halton" ; > > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 11:45 AM > Subject: Re: Riding Proficiency 101 > > > > --- Julian Halton wrote: > > > Cornering > > > Have yet to find a satisfactory answer to what should > I > > > do when I take a > > > corner too hot. Hough ( proficient motorcycling) > says > > > lean the bike harder > > > and roll on the throttle- his stress being if you > were > > > looking you would not > > > be in this predicament. If I need to slow down do I > ease > > > off the throttle > > > (thus losing traction, according to Hough), do I blip > my > > > back brake? or do I > > > straighten the bike, apply the brakes and then > re-assess > > > curve > > > > lesson 1: learn to never take a turn "too hot." > > > > if this is happening regularly, get yourself to the > track > > or you'll be a stain before too long. > > > > > > -- > > tg > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now > > http://companion.yahoo.com/ > ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 13:20:52 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: Sean Jordan , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Anyone Ipoding on their bike? Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 13:20:40 -0500 > > From: Sean Jordan > MP3 players don't "skip." > Sounds nice, but not true. the iPod has a hard disk in it, not flash RAM. Bounce that sucker hard enough and the hard disk will do a lot worse than skip. Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" '92 ST1100, "red STag" '02 919, "still looking for a name" A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers.... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 13:28:28 2003 Subject: Re: Re: Anyone Ipoding on their bike? From: Brian Roach To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX Cc: Sean Jordan , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 21 Nov 2003 13:28:18 -0500 On Fri, 2003-11-21 at 13:20, Bob Meyer wrote: > > MP3 players don't "skip." > > > Sounds nice, but not true. the iPod has a hard disk in it, not flash RAM. > Bounce that sucker hard enough and the hard disk will do a lot worse > than skip. Exactly ... it'll crash. Hard. It still won't skip though :D My MP3 jukebox (Creative Labs Nomad .. like an iPod but lots cheaper) sat on the console/floor of the RV this year for about 2500 miles. Never had a problem, and the ride on the floor of the RV is a lot more harsh than if you had it in a jacket pocket while riding a motorcycle. - Roach From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 13:28:57 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: Leon Begeman , Mike Bartman CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Killing Mike's Harley, was: Towing Service. Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 13:28:48 -0500 > > From: Leon Begeman > > The point is that bikes are much more fragile than > cars. Even following all of the scheduled maintenance > and NOT wrecking it, it is difficult to get a bike to > survive to 100K miles. All depends on the bike. I know of a surprising number of Honda ST1100s with more than 100K on the clock, and 3 or 4 with more than 200K. And yes, those are miles, not Km. And I'm really not sure I agree with the "more fragile" statement in general. I think bikes are worked a lot harder than cars, which increases wear. When's the last time you saw anyone do a wheelie in the F-150? And some of what goes bad on vehicles is age related more than mileage (rubber parts in particular). And since bikes typically get a lot fewer miles per year than cars, things like seals, gaskets and hoses go at much lower mileage than they do in cars. Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" '92 ST1100, "red STag" '02 919, "still looking for a name" A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers.... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 13:37:26 2003 From: "Shigeru Honda" To: Subject: Re: Re: Anyone Ipoding on their bike? Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 13:30:34 -0500 Don't do it! Four Point Violation for Driving while using earphones (what about CIA/FBI people?) It'll be on your record for 3 years put some big speakers on bike, then it's legal? yea, I've been looking at law stuff since that incident.... --------------------- Shigeru Honda 98 SuperHawk (Street) 99 750 SS (Track #881) 02 MZ Skorpion Tour (New Toy) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Meyer" To: "Sean Jordan" ; Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 1:20 PM Subject: Re: Re: Anyone Ipoding on their bike? > > > > > From: Sean Jordan > > > MP3 players don't "skip." > > > Sounds nice, but not true. the iPod has a hard disk in it, not flash RAM. Bounce that sucker hard enough and the hard disk will do a lot worse than skip. > > Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 > '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" > '92 ST1100, "red STag" > '02 919, "still looking for a name" > > A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers.... > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 13:39:06 2003 From: Sunil Doshi Subject: Re: Anyone Ipoding on their bike? Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 13:39:04 -0500 To: DC Cycles I would take it back and get another one. I've had mine for almost 3 years and that has never happened. On Nov 21, 2003, at 1:10 PM, Mark Kitchell wrote: > ok perhaps not skip, but already when running it has > stopped and started. sunil :: proteus / changing your shape for the future sunil doshi, senior interface designer tel [202.452.6800 x101] [202.452.6866] fax http://proteus.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 13:43:36 2003 From: "Shigeru Honda" To: Subject: Re: Re: Anyone Ipoding on their bike? Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 13:36:44 -0500 Oh, it's a THREE Point Violation. anyway, another excuse for cops making $$ > Don't do it! > > Four Point Violation for Driving while using earphones (what about CIA/FBI > people?) > It'll be on your record for 3 years > > put some big speakers on bike, then it's legal? > > yea, I've been looking at law stuff since that incident.... > > --------------------- > Shigeru Honda > 98 SuperHawk (Street) > 99 750 SS (Track #881) > 02 MZ Skorpion Tour (New Toy) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bob Meyer" > To: "Sean Jordan" ; > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 1:20 PM > Subject: Re: Re: Anyone Ipoding on their bike? > > > > > > > > > > From: Sean Jordan > > > > > MP3 players don't "skip." > > > > > Sounds nice, but not true. the iPod has a hard disk in it, not flash RAM. > Bounce that sucker hard enough and the hard disk will do a lot worse than > skip. > > > > Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 > > '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" > > '92 ST1100, "red STag" > > '02 919, "still looking for a name" > > > > A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers.... > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 13:44:01 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 13:43:46 EST Subject: Re: Killing Mike's Harley, was: Towing Service. To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 11/20/2003 5:42:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, mriderleon@XXXXXX writes: > I've ridden a few bikes 100K miles, they need > to live a very coddled life to go that far. I abused the crap out of my R80RT Beemer. The engine has never been apart, and it has over 200,000mi. on it. It is sorta like the preachers wagon though. Loud pipes quell cells. 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 13:59:37 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 10:59:28 -0800 (PST) From: "Louis F. Caplan" Subject: Kill a motorcyclist, get a slap on the wrist To: DC-Cycles So, according to this article, if you kill a motorcyclist, it's okay as long as you are under 18. (well, $345 and a bunch of points) Pardon me while I puke. Louis - - - - - - - - - - From: http://www.gazette.net/200347/bethesda/news/188393-1.html Teen faces charges for fatal crash Nov. 19, 2003 A Chevy Chase teen is facing misdemeanor charges as a juvenile for her involvement in a car crash on Seven Locks Road in June that killed a Potomac man. Katherine Gorman, then 17, of Chevy Chase, was driving a 2002 Ford Escape north on Seven Locks Road at about 5:15 p.m. June 25 when it crossed the centerline for unknown reasons. Glenn Braswell, 58, of Potomac was riding a 2000 Harley Davidson motorcycle south on Seven Locks Road with Randi Lynn Cohen, 58, also of Potomac, on the back. The Escape hit Braswell head-on, despite his efforts to swerve onto the southbound shoulder to avoid the collision. On Sept. 9, police charged Gorman with failure to drive right of center, a misdemeanor that carries a possible $75 ticket and three points on a license; negligent driving, a charge that carries a possible $270 ticket and three points on a license; and possession of a fictitious license, a charge that carries up to 12 points, said assistant state's attorney Stephen Chaikin Thursday. Chaikin said Gorman also had a legitimate driver's license. Because the crash happened while Gorman was younger than 18, she has been charged as a juvenile. All three charges will be addressed during a December adjudication -- the juvenile equivalent of a trial -- scheduled before a Circuit Court judge. Terrence McGann, an attorney representing Gorman, did not return a call seeking comment. There is no evidence that would support Gorman facing stronger charges, Chaikin said. "In Maryland, in order to prosecute or indict someone for automobile manslaughter or death from a traffic fatality, there must be gross negligence involved," Chaikin said, adding that Gorman did not show willful, wanton or reckless disregard for human life, conditions necessary to charge someone with gross negligence. Chaikin did not allow a Gazette reporter to view the file because Gorman is being charged as a juvenile. He provided the following account of the crash from the file: Braswell and Cohen were riding south on Seven Locks Road at about 35 mph, when Gorman crossed the center line and struck them. Gorman had been driving north on Seven Locks Road, and later told police that she was traveling to a summer league basketball game at Winston Churchill High School. One witness to the crash told investigators in June that the SUV didn't just swerve into oncoming traffic, but actually traveled steadily forward at a constant speed, striking the motorcycle head-on. Braswell was pronounced dead at the scene. Cohen was transferred to a hospital where she remained in critical condition following the crash. Gorman told police that she did not know how or why she crossed the center line. She added that she had not been talking on a cell phone, or playing with the radio and was not on medication. There was no evidence that Gorman had been drinking. ===== "Admiral" Louis Caplan 1998 Kawasaki Concours Fairfax, VA Please consider helping me support the Pediatric Brain Tumor Foundation http://www.geocities.com/nighthawk700/rideforkids.htm __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 14:03:31 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:03:23 -0800 (PST) From: Todd Withrow Subject: Re: Re: Anyone Ipoding on their bike? To: Brian Roach , rmeyer9@XXXXXX Cc: Sean Jordan , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Brian Roach wrote: > My MP3 jukebox (Creative Labs Nomad .. like an iPod > but lots cheaper) > sat on the console/floor of the RV this year for > about 2500 miles. Never > had a problem, and the ride on the floor of the RV > is a lot more harsh > than if you had it in a jacket pocket while riding a > motorcycle. > > - Roach > My Archos MP3 player works fine in my RV as well, but not in a tankbag on my VTR. Have not put it in my pocket yet. I think the V twin of my bike is much worse than the V10 of my RV. Todd ===== AIM: Inf DS http://www.geocities.com/mtwithrow ----------------------------------------------------------- Used to be that we "worldproofed" our children. Now society wants to childproof the world. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 14:06:14 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 14:06:07 EST Subject: Re: The results are in To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 11/21/2003 11:00:57 AM Eastern Standard Time, omni@XXXXXX writes: > basis of the security system > (which is optional). If you get the security system (either the "smart > siren" or the "pager", or both) the parts plug into the base unit which is > standard with the bike. So why can they not just unplug the damn security module and send the bike home until the new one arrives? I mean there has to be a way to bypass the damn thing. FYI this sort of thing is not new. On the old Harly 90cc (Italian manufacture) if the tail light burned out, yes I did say _tail light_, the engine would quit. (This was not the only bike I have seen, _and I did see it first hand_ that did this. Some manufacturers used the tail light filament as a sort of voltage regulator running the ignition circuit through the taillight.) Loud pipes quell cells. 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 14:11:59 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:11:55 -0800 (PST) From: Leon Begeman Subject: Re: Re: Killing Mike's Harley, was: Towing Service. To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX, Mike Bartman Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Bob said: > All depends on the bike. I know of a surprising > number of Honda ST1100s with more than 100K on the > clock, and 3 or 4 with more than 200K. And yes, > those are miles, not Km. Is there ANY model of car that won't last 100K miles? You mentioned the Ford F-150, isn't an F-150 with less than 100K miles a low mileage vehicle? I would certainly consider it so. An F-150 ought to last 100K miles with no more maintenance than 3 or 4 oil changes, a couple of new sets of tires and a set of brake pads. It probably wouldn't hurt to change the air and fuel filters a couple of times, but that might not be necessary. Bikes are fragile. Leon. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 14:15:43 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:15:40 -0800 (PST) From: Sally Wood Subject: Leesburg Biker Club To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Anyone from the list belong to this "club?" ;^) http://www.leesburg2day.com/current.cfm?newsid=8053 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 14:17:58 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:17:50 -0800 (PST) From: Todd Withrow Subject: Re: Re: Anyone Ipoding on their bike? To: Shigeru Honda , dc-cycles@XXXXXX You know, I have yet to be paid any extra money for a ticket or an arrest. I gotta get a job with one of these department you guys are always refering to. Put the mini speakers in your helmet. The law does not address that, so it is not ticketable. Even though most will not ticket you for headphones. Todd --- Shigeru Honda wrote: > Oh, it's a THREE Point Violation. > anyway, another excuse for cops making $$ > > > > > Don't do it! > > > > Four Point Violation for Driving while using > earphones (what about CIA/FBI > > people?) > > It'll be on your record for 3 years > > > > put some big speakers on bike, then it's legal? > > > > yea, I've been looking at law stuff since that > incident.... > > > > --------------------- > > Shigeru Honda > > 98 SuperHawk (Street) > > 99 750 SS (Track #881) > > 02 MZ Skorpion Tour (New Toy) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Bob Meyer" > > To: "Sean Jordan" ; > > > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 1:20 PM > > Subject: Re: Re: Anyone Ipoding on their bike? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Sean Jordan > > > > > > > MP3 players don't "skip." > > > > > > > Sounds nice, but not true. the iPod has a hard > disk in it, not flash > RAM. > > Bounce that sucker hard enough and the hard disk > will do a lot worse than > > skip. > > > > > > Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 > > > '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" > > > '92 ST1100, "red STag" > > > '02 919, "still looking for a name" > > > > > > A steady job and a wife have ruined more good > bikers.... > > > > > > ===== AIM: Inf DS http://www.geocities.com/mtwithrow ----------------------------------------------------------- Used to be that we "worldproofed" our children. Now society wants to childproof the world. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 14:26:39 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 14:26:25 -0500 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: shonda3@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Anyone Ipoding on their bike? X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 Actually, I think it's if you have both in and are in a car. I think you are allowed if you only have one in. That would be what the CIA and FBI agents do. On a bike though, it's more like wearing earplugs. I've never had a problem with using earbuds while riding. Plus, you can get speakers built into your helmet. Scooter In a message dated 11/21/2003 1:30:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, shonda3@XXXXXX writes: > > > Don't do it! > > Four Point Violation for Driving while using earphones (what about CIA/FBI > people?) > It'll be on your record for 3 years > > put some big speakers on bike, then it's legal? > > yea, I've been looking at law stuff since that incident.... > > --------------------- > Shigeru Honda > 98 SuperHawk (Street) > 99 750 SS (Track #881) > 02 MZ Skorpion Tour (New Toy) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bob Meyer" > To: "Sean Jordan" ; > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 1:20 PM > Subject: Re: Re: Anyone Ipoding on their bike? > > > > > > > > > > From: Sean Jordan > > > > > MP3 players don't "skip." > > > > > Sounds nice, but not true. the iPod has a hard disk in it, not flash RAM. > Bounce that sucker hard enough and the hard disk will do a > lot worse than > skip. > > > > Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 > > '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" > > '92 ST1100, "red STag" > > '02 919, "still looking for a name" > > > > A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers.... > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 14:27:00 2003 Subject: Re: Re: Anyone Ipoding on their bike? From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 21 Nov 2003 14:23:16 -0500 On Fri, 2003-11-21 at 14:17, Todd Withrow wrote: > You know, I have yet to be paid any extra money for a > ticket or an arrest. I gotta get a job with one of > these department you guys are always refering to. > > Put the mini speakers in your helmet. The law does not > address that, so it is not ticketable. Even though > most will not ticket you for headphones. > My memory isn't the best but I thought the law was you couldn't have a headset in both ears but one was ok (like the cellphone earbuds) and helmets with speakers were exempt. > Todd > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 14:30:10 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 14:30:23 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Erick Singley Subject: Re: Re: Anyone Ipoding on their bike? >Don't do it! > >Four Point Violation for Driving while using earphones (what about CIA/FBI >people?) >It'll be on your record for 3 years > >put some big speakers on bike, then it's legal? > >yea, I've been looking at law stuff since that incident.... In Maryland It looks like you can use one ear - but not both. Nice to see that earplugs are OK though (as long as you can still hear sirens) 21-1120 http://mlis.state.md.us/cgi-win/web_statutes.exe?gtr&21-1120 (a) A person may not drive a motor vehicle on any highway or on any private property that is used by the public in general in this State while the person is wearing over or in both ears earplugs. (b) A person may not drive a motor vehicle on any highway or on any private property that is used by the public in general in this State while the person is wearing over or in both ears a headset. (c) A person may not drive a motor vehicle on any highway or on any private property that is used by the public in general in this State while the person is wearing over or in both ears earphones attached to a radio, tape player, or other audio device. (d) The provisions of subsections (a), (b), and (c) of this section do not apply to: (1) A person engaged in the operation of either special construction equipment or equipment for use in the maintenance of any highway; (2) A person engaged in the operation of refuse collection equipment who is wearing a safety headset or safety earplugs; (3) A person wearing personal hearing protectors in the form of custom earplugs or molds that are designed to reduce injurious noise levels. However, custom plugs or molds shall be designed in such a manner as to not inhibit the wearer's ability to hear a siren or horn from an emergency vehicle or a horn from another vehicle; or (4) A person wearing a prosthetic device used to aid the hard of hearing. (e) (1) The provisions of subsections (a) and (c) of this section do not apply to a person operating an authorized emergency vehicle under emergency conditions. (2) The provisions of subsection (b) of this section do not apply to a person operating an authorized emergency vehicle: (i) Under emergency conditions; or (ii) Who is wearing a headset for the purpose of communicating with other emergency personnel. ------------ There is a similar one for bicycles, motor scooters or EPAMD (21-1210) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 14:32:08 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 14:32:02 -0500 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: shonda3@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Anyone Ipoding on their bike? X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 Actually, I think it's if you have both in and are in a car. I think you are allowed if you only have one in. That would be what the CIA and FBI agents do. On a bike though, it's more like wearing earplugs. I've never had a problem with using earbuds while riding. Plus, you can get speakers built into your helmet. Scooter In a message dated 11/21/2003 1:30:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, shonda3@XXXXXX writes: > > > Don't do it! > > Four Point Violation for Driving while using earphones (what about CIA/FBI > people?) > It'll be on your record for 3 years > > put some big speakers on bike, then it's legal? > > yea, I've been looking at law stuff since that incident.... > > --------------------- > Shigeru Honda > 98 SuperHawk (Street) > 99 750 SS (Track #881) > 02 MZ Skorpion Tour (New Toy) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bob Meyer" > To: "Sean Jordan" ; > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 1:20 PM > Subject: Re: Re: Anyone Ipoding on their bike? > > > > > > > > > > From: Sean Jordan > > > > > MP3 players don't "skip." > > > > > Sounds nice, but not true. the iPod has a hard disk in it, not flash RAM. > Bounce that sucker hard enough and the hard disk will do a > lot worse than > skip. > > > > Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 > > '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" > > '92 ST1100, "red STag" > > '02 919, "still looking for a name" > > > > A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers.... > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 14:36:53 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 14:31:59 -0500 To: "Custer, Carl" , "'DCCycles'" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Rider Down Cc: "'Silvera@XXXXXX'" At 12:56 PM 11/21/03 -0500, Custer, Carl wrote: >Watch those geezers (I'm turning 63 on Monday) Happy birthday! Looks like the weather is cooperating! :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 14:37:12 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 14:38:01 -0500 To: Leon Begeman From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Killing Mike's Harley, was: Towing Service. Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 10:02 AM 11/21/03 -0800, Leon Begeman wrote: >The point is that bikes are much more fragile than >cars. Even following all of the scheduled maintenance >and NOT wrecking it, it is difficult to get a bike to >survive to 100K miles. The original comment and your >reply was: > >>> >I think you can disable a Harley just by riding >it. >>> >>> Yes, you can...but it can take 100,000 or more >miles >>> to do it. ;^) > >That seemed to indicate that just riding the bike >means it will likely last 100K miles. That isn't so. Ok, I see how you read it now. Yeah, if you "just rode" any bike it wouldn't last long at all. Nowhere near 100K miles. Ditto for cars. You might manage it with a semi, but I doubt it. I would never think of "just riding" a bike, so it didn't occur to me to read it that way. Doing regular maintenance (adjustments, checking tire pressure, scheduled stuff, etc.), cleaning it occasionally, and replacing expendables, such as tires, batteries, oil, etc., are part of "riding" as far as I'm concerned. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 14:41:11 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:41:04 -0800 (PST) From: Todd Withrow Subject: Re: Re: Anyone Ipoding on their bike? To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Carl Schelin wrote: > On Fri, 2003-11-21 at 14:17, Todd Withrow wrote: > > You know, I have yet to be paid any extra money > for a > > ticket or an arrest. I gotta get a job with one of > > these department you guys are always refering to. > > > > Put the mini speakers in your helmet. The law does > not > > address that, so it is not ticketable. Even though > > most will not ticket you for headphones. > > > > My memory isn't the best but I thought the law was > you couldn't have a > headset in both ears but one was ok (like the > cellphone earbuds) and > helmets with speakers were exempt. > > > Todd > > > > Carl > I thought that is what I said? Yes, speakers in your helmet are by default, not headphones. The difference is a distance of a few millimeters and therefore rediculous, but I don't write the laws. You cannot drive a car with headphones on due to the auditory restriction it places upon you, however there is now law that regulates how many watts of power you pump through the sub woofer in the trunk of a ricer. ===== AIM: Inf DS http://www.geocities.com/mtwithrow ----------------------------------------------------------- Used to be that we "worldproofed" our children. Now society wants to childproof the world. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 14:46:26 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 14:46:15 EST Subject: Re: Riding Proficiency 101 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 11/21/2003 11:11:18 AM Eastern Standard Time, julian@XXXXXX writes: > Have yet to find a satisfactory answer to what should I do when I take a > corner too hot. Hough ( proficient motorcycling) says lean the bike harder > and roll on the throttle- That is usually the best advice based on the simple fact that most bikes are better then most riders _you_ are likely to reach 100% of your skill before the bike reaches 100% of its ability. If you are following MSF advice you should already have the throttle rolled on just a bit and that should be enough, just press a little more, lean a little more. LOOK WHERE YOU _WANT_ TO GO! Not at the cliff, ditch, tree, etc. LOOK DOWN THE ROAD! Just because you made it that time does not mean you should do it again......... > his stress being if you were looking you would not > be in this predicament. Damn straight! > If I need to slow down do I ease off the throttle > (thus losing traction, according to Hough), do I blip my back brake? or do I > straighten the bike, apply the brakes and then re-assess curve If this happens you have already fucked up and may have to pay the piper, sorry but that is the way it is. Remember, the real fuck up is in the past, now you are just trying to bail your ass out. The key word here is _NEED_ if you are on unfamiliar roads you should be riding much slower to avoid such nasty surprises. _If_conditions_allow_ Straighten the bike, this allows for maximum braking something you cannot do leaned over. Slow that sucker down as much as you can. Pitch it back into the turn. _Hopefully_ you will have scrubbed off enough speed to complete the turn. If not you will be going a lot slower when you crash. If you cannot do that and feel you _must_ brake remember that when you are that hot into a turn you could lock your rear brake _really_ easily. If you do FOR GODS SAKE KEEP IT LOCKED!!!!! You will likely fall down in a "nice" lowside. If you release it you will most likely highside a BAD, BAD option. We are talking a medieval catapult! You and your bike will be launched into the sky flipping and spinning, a BAD, BAD thing. Ride your own ride. Work on _smooth_ not speed, speed (if you need it) will come with smoothness. If you must have speed ride on familiar roads (or better yet a track) the world contains enough surprises on familiar roads, unfamiliar ones will bite you on the butt. Ride safe. (a wish not a command) Loud pipes quell cells. 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 14:47:02 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: "Louis F. Caplan" , DC-Cycles Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Kill a motorcyclist, get a slap on the wrist Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 14:47:13 -0500 I can understand that in this case that it's a young girl who wasn't drinking and was just being *very* irresponsible and they don't want to end her life with jail time. But man I get so upset when people don't follow the rules of the road and take driving more seriously. Hopefully it's something that she will never forget and will be a painful reminder of how serious you should take driving. On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 10:59:28 -0800 (PST), Louis F. Caplan wrote > So, according to this article, if you kill a motorcyclist, it's okay > as long as you are under 18. (well, $345 and a bunch of points) > Pardon me while I puke. > > Louis > > - - - - - - - - - - > > From: http://www.gazette.net/200347/bethesda/news/188393-1.html > > Teen faces charges for fatal crash > > Nov. 19, 2003 > > A Chevy Chase teen is facing misdemeanor charges as a juvenile for > her involvement in a car crash on Seven Locks Road in June that > killed a Potomac man. > > Katherine Gorman, then 17, of Chevy Chase, was driving a 2002 Ford > Escape north on Seven Locks Road at about 5:15 p.m. June 25 when it > crossed the centerline for unknown reasons. > > Glenn Braswell, 58, of Potomac was riding a 2000 Harley Davidson motorcycle > south on Seven Locks Road with Randi Lynn Cohen, 58, also of Potomac, > on the back. The Escape hit Braswell head-on, despite his efforts > to swerve onto the southbound shoulder to avoid the collision. > > On Sept. 9, police charged Gorman with failure to drive right of > center, a misdemeanor that carries a possible $75 ticket and three > points on a license; negligent driving, a charge that carries a > possible $270 ticket and three points on a license; and possession > of a fictitious license, a charge that carries up to 12 points, said > assistant state's attorney Stephen Chaikin Thursday. Chaikin said > Gorman also had a legitimate driver's license. > > Because the crash happened while Gorman was younger than 18, she has > been charged as a juvenile. All three charges will be addressed > during a December adjudication -- the juvenile equivalent of a trial > -- scheduled before a Circuit Court judge. > > Terrence McGann, an attorney representing Gorman, did not return a > call seeking comment. > > There is no evidence that would support Gorman facing stronger > charges, Chaikin said. > > "In Maryland, in order to prosecute or indict someone for automobile > manslaughter or death from a traffic fatality, there must be gross negligence > involved," Chaikin said, adding that Gorman did not show willful, > wanton or reckless disregard for human life, conditions necessary > to charge someone with gross negligence. > > Chaikin did not allow a Gazette reporter to view the file because > Gorman is being charged as a juvenile. He provided the following > account of the crash from the file: > > Braswell and Cohen were riding south on Seven Locks Road at about 35 > mph, when Gorman crossed the center line and struck them. > > Gorman had been driving north on Seven Locks Road, and later told > police that she was traveling to a summer league basketball game at > Winston Churchill High School. One witness to the crash told > investigators in June that the SUV didn't just swerve into oncoming > traffic, but actually traveled steadily forward at a constant speed, > striking the motorcycle head-on. > > Braswell was pronounced dead at the scene. Cohen was transferred to > a hospital where she remained in critical condition following the crash. > > Gorman told police that she did not know how or why she crossed the center > line. She added that she had not been talking on a cell phone, or > playing with the radio and was not on medication. > > There was no evidence that Gorman had been drinking. > > ===== > "Admiral" Louis Caplan 1998 Kawasaki Concours Fairfax, VA > Please consider helping me support the Pediatric Brain Tumor Foundation > http://www.geocities.com/nighthawk700/rideforkids.htm > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now > http://companion.yahoo.com/ -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 14:48:08 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 14:49:20 -0500 To: "Louis F. Caplan" , DC-Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Kill a motorcyclist, get a slap on the wrist Agreed. Crossing the centerline *is* gross negligence (reckless disregard for human life) if you ask me...sounds like she's guilty. If being under 18 means you aren't adult enough to be responsible for your actions, then you aren't adult enough to have a driver's license. -- Mike B. At 10:59 AM 11/21/03 -0800, Louis F. Caplan wrote: > >So, according to this article, if you kill a motorcyclist, it's okay as long as >you are under 18. (well, $345 and a bunch of points) Pardon me while I puke. > >Louis > >- - - - - - - - - - > >From: http://www.gazette.net/200347/bethesda/news/188393-1.html > >Teen faces charges for fatal crash > > Nov. 19, 2003 > >A Chevy Chase teen is facing misdemeanor charges as a juvenile for her >involvement in a car crash on Seven Locks Road in June that killed a Potomac >man. > >Katherine Gorman, then 17, of Chevy Chase, was driving a 2002 Ford Escape north >on Seven Locks Road at about 5:15 p.m. June 25 when it crossed the centerline >for unknown reasons. > >Glenn Braswell, 58, of Potomac was riding a 2000 Harley Davidson motorcycle >south on Seven Locks Road with Randi Lynn Cohen, 58, also of Potomac, on the >back. The Escape hit Braswell head-on, despite his efforts to swerve onto the >southbound shoulder to avoid the collision. > >On Sept. 9, police charged Gorman with failure to drive right of center, a >misdemeanor that carries a possible $75 ticket and three points on a license; >negligent driving, a charge that carries a possible $270 ticket and three >points on a license; and possession of a fictitious license, a charge that >carries up to 12 points, said assistant state's attorney Stephen Chaikin >Thursday. Chaikin said Gorman also had a legitimate driver's license. > >Because the crash happened while Gorman was younger than 18, she has been >charged as a juvenile. All three charges will be addressed during a December >adjudication -- the juvenile equivalent of a trial -- scheduled before a >Circuit Court judge. > >Terrence McGann, an attorney representing Gorman, did not return a call seeking >comment. > >There is no evidence that would support Gorman facing stronger charges, Chaikin >said. > >"In Maryland, in order to prosecute or indict someone for automobile >manslaughter or death from a traffic fatality, there must be gross negligence >involved," Chaikin said, adding that Gorman did not show willful, wanton or >reckless disregard for human life, conditions necessary to charge someone with >gross negligence. > >Chaikin did not allow a Gazette reporter to view the file because Gorman is >being charged as a juvenile. He provided the following account of the crash >from the file: > >Braswell and Cohen were riding south on Seven Locks Road at about 35 mph, when >Gorman crossed the center line and struck them. > >Gorman had been driving north on Seven Locks Road, and later told police that >she was traveling to a summer league basketball game at Winston Churchill High >School. One witness to the crash told investigators in June that the SUV didn't >just swerve into oncoming traffic, but actually traveled steadily forward at a >constant speed, striking the motorcycle head-on. > >Braswell was pronounced dead at the scene. Cohen was transferred to a hospital >where she remained in critical condition following the crash. > >Gorman told police that she did not know how or why she crossed the center >line. She added that she had not been talking on a cell phone, or playing with >the radio and was not on medication. > >There was no evidence that Gorman had been drinking. > > >===== >"Admiral" Louis Caplan 1998 Kawasaki Concours Fairfax, VA >Please consider helping me support the Pediatric Brain Tumor Foundation >http://www.geocities.com/nighthawk700/rideforkids.htm > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now >http://companion.yahoo.com/ > **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 14:49:43 2003 Subject: Re: Re: Anyone Ipoding on their bike? From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 21 Nov 2003 14:46:04 -0500 On Fri, 2003-11-21 at 14:41, Todd Withrow wrote: > --- Carl Schelin wrote: > > On Fri, 2003-11-21 at 14:17, Todd Withrow wrote: > > > You know, I have yet to be paid any extra money > > for a > > > ticket or an arrest. I gotta get a job with one of > > > these department you guys are always refering to. > > > > > > Put the mini speakers in your helmet. The law does > > not > > > address that, so it is not ticketable. Even though > > > most will not ticket you for headphones. > > > > > > > My memory isn't the best but I thought the law was > > you couldn't have a > > headset in both ears but one was ok (like the > > cellphone earbuds) and > > helmets with speakers were exempt. > > > > > Todd > > > > > > > Carl > > > > I thought that is what I said? I guess I didn't read your response that way. You said that they weren't addressed but I thought I'd read that built in helmet speakers were excempt. Like lane splitting. You can do it in California because it doesn't say you can't but VA law specifically says you can't lane split. > > Yes, speakers in your > helmet are by default, not headphones. The difference > is a distance of a few millimeters and therefore > rediculous, but I don't write the laws. You cannot > drive a car with headphones on due to the auditory > restriction it places upon you, however there is now > law that regulates how many watts of power you pump > through the sub woofer in the trunk of a ricer. > Perhaps you can ride down my street some time late in the evening. They can get pretty loud :-) > > ===== > AIM: Inf DS > > http://www.geocities.com/mtwithrow > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 14:52:37 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: "Julian Halton" , "Tom Gimer" , Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Riding Proficiency 101 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 14:52:49 -0500 I went to hot into a turn and I used a "Slow School Zone" sign to slow me down. Those things are tougher than they look. If your not dragging a peg your not turning hard enough and keep leaning. Won't be a mistake I will make twice. I think the point is to not make any sudden and aburt changes in speed. If you shift the weight of the bike to radically you will high side which is what I did (luckily into a nice grass lawn). If you keep leaning and eventually run out of leaning room, you will low side which is a much better way to crash. Rob On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:55:04 -0500, Julian Halton wrote > Right..I believe I have a fair grasp of responsible riding..this > note falls under the what if ........ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom Gimer" > To: "Julian Halton" ; cycles.org> Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 11:45 AM Subject: Re: > Riding Proficiency 101 > > > --- Julian Halton wrote: > > > Cornering > > > Have yet to find a satisfactory answer to what should I > > > do when I take a > > > corner too hot. Hough ( proficient motorcycling) says > > > lean the bike harder > > > and roll on the throttle- his stress being if you were > > > looking you would not > > > be in this predicament. If I need to slow down do I ease > > > off the throttle > > > (thus losing traction, according to Hough), do I blip my > > > back brake? or do I > > > straighten the bike, apply the brakes and then re-assess > > > curve > > > > lesson 1: learn to never take a turn "too hot." > > > > if this is happening regularly, get yourself to the track > > or you'll be a stain before too long. > > > > > > -- > > tg > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now > > http://companion.yahoo.com/ -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 14:53:18 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 14:52:29 -0500 To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: The results are in At 02:06 PM 11/21/03 EST, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: >In a message dated 11/21/2003 11:00:57 AM Eastern Standard Time, >omni@XXXXXX writes: > >> basis of the security system >> (which is optional). If you get the security system (either the "smart >> siren" or the "pager", or both) the parts plug into the base unit which is >> standard with the bike. > >So why can they not just unplug the damn security module and send the bike >home until the new one arrives? >I mean there has to be a way to bypass the damn thing. Dunno. That would disable the turn signals, and might make the bike illegal in Virginia. I don't know that bikes there *have* to have turn signals (hand signals still legal?), but I suspect that if it has them installed, they have to work. My dad ran into that one with a '67 VW, faulty emergency flashers, and a PITA inspection station guy once. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 15:04:07 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 15:00:00 -0500 To: Sally Wood , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Leesburg Biker Club At 11:15 AM 11/21/03 -0800, Sally Wood wrote: >Anyone from the list belong to this "club?" ;^) > >http://www.leesburg2day.com/current.cfm?newsid=8053 Not me, but this definition is interesting: "According to Ojeda, a gang is a group of three or more people who band together for a common cause and are involved in criminal activity." That definition seems to fit a lot of organizations, including the Democratic Party, the Republican Party, the D.C. Police (a few years ago at least), and the Shriners, just to name a few. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 15:05:43 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Sunil Doshi , DC Cycles Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Anyone Ipoding on their bike? Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 15:05:55 -0500 If your harddrive "skips" IE the heads hit the platter, your IPOD will be TOAST. Most harddrives can take quiet a lot of G's when stopped and about 20% of that amount when spinning. Notebook drives can take a bit more cause they spin slower and a purpose built to last longer. for example. Spinning a drive has take 52 g's for 2 ms operating and 350 g's for 2 ms off. That's half sin wave forces, so I assume in one direction and not vibrating in to directions. They are much more susceptable to vibration only allowing .5 g's while vibrating. Rob On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 12:32:59 -0500, Sunil Doshi wrote > From what I understand, the iPod only turns the hard drive every 20 > minutes (unless you change the "course" of your music (change > playlists, albums)). So the chances of it skipping are pretty small. > I've gone skiing with mine and it hasn't ever skipped. > > Never used mine on the bike, though. > > On Nov 21, 2003, at 12:21 PM, Mark Kitchell wrote: > > > I just got an Apple Ipod MP3 player. Mostly for > > non-moto use but it will come in very hand on long > > trips. About 500 hours of coninuous music! > > > > Anyone using an Ipod on a bike? Do you have any > > problems with skipping? Thanks > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now > > http://companion.yahoo.com/ > > > > > > sunil > http://widepipe.org/ride/ > '03 Honda Shadow ACE 750 -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 15:20:37 2003 From: "Laura Roach" To: "Sally Wood" , Subject: Re: What does a good helmet cost these days Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 15:13:10 -0500 > ...or, you could just toddle on over to Paris where I > got my Shoei helmet for around $200(US). :^) There are > a bunch of great bike shops within a stone's throw of > the Arc de Triomphe. I just happen to know a few people in Paris...hmmm, maybe I should have them buy me a bunch and start selling them over here. :) Laura From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 15:21:43 2003 Subject: Re: The results are in From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 21 Nov 2003 15:18:03 -0500 On Fri, 2003-11-21 at 14:52, Mike Bartman wrote: > At 02:06 PM 11/21/03 EST, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > >In a message dated 11/21/2003 11:00:57 AM Eastern Standard Time, > >omni@XXXXXX writes: > > > >> basis of the security system > >> (which is optional). If you get the security system (either the "smart > >> siren" or the "pager", or both) the parts plug into the base unit which is > >> standard with the bike. > > > >So why can they not just unplug the damn security module and send the bike > >home until the new one arrives? > >I mean there has to be a way to bypass the damn thing. > > Dunno. That would disable the turn signals, and might make the bike > illegal in Virginia. Not all Harleys come with the security system installed. My FLSTC didn't have one but this one does simply because that was how Patriot ordered it. It's just like at the car dealers. You can either have the one on the lot or wait until hell freezes over and get the absolute one you want. I figured, *eh*, I just won't get the stupid siren/pager functions and have it disabled if someone tries to steal it. > I don't know that bikes there *have* to have turn > signals (hand signals still legal?), but I suspect that if it has them > installed, they have to work. My dad ran into that one with a '67 VW, > faulty emergency flashers, and a PITA inspection station guy once. Either the HOG book I have or the Honda one Rita got has a listing of what's expected for each state including turn signals and headphones, which may be where I got the speaker information. > > -- Mike B. > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 15:30:57 2003 From: Sunil Doshi Subject: Re: Kill a motorcyclist, get a slap on the wrist Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 15:30:52 -0500 To: DC Cycles But it sounds like she does get to keep her license. At least take that away. What about the part that says "possession of a fictitious license." I wonder what she was planning to do with that. On Nov 21, 2003, at 2:49 PM, Mike Bartman wrote: > Agreed. Crossing the centerline *is* gross negligence (reckless > disregard > for human life) if you ask me...sounds like she's guilty. If being > under > 18 means you aren't adult enough to be responsible for your actions, > then > you aren't adult enough to have a driver's license. sunil http://widepipe.org/ride/ '03 Honda Shadow ACE 750 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 15:41:55 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 12:41:52 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: What does a good helmet cost these days To: Laura Roach , Sally Wood , dc-cycles@XXXXXX I kinda doubt its a good deal anymore, the exchange rate is terrible between the euro and dollar )-: --- Laura Roach wrote: > > ...or, you could just toddle on over to Paris > where I > > got my Shoei helmet for around $200(US). :^) There > are > > a bunch of great bike shops within a stone's throw > of > > the Arc de Triomphe. > > I just happen to know a few people in Paris...hmmm, > maybe I should have them > buy me a bunch and start selling them over here. :) > > Laura > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 15:53:28 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 12:53:25 -0800 (PST) From: Scratch Subject: SPAM: For sale, 2001 Suzuki JR50 kids dirt/ play To: DCC Get 'em started young. Contact Dean at cyclesport1@XXXXXX if interested. Rich --- cyclesport1@XXXXXX > Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 07:11:07 -0500 > Subject: For sale, 2001 Suzuki JR50 kids dirt/ play > bike > From: cyclesport1@XXXXXX > > Forgive the intrusion but seems like the easiest way > to let everyone > know. I'm selling Martin's 2001 JR50 as his new KTM > just turned up. For > those of you who don't know, this is the lowest seat > height 50 available > plus you can raise it 1" when the time is right plus > it has a restrictor > for beginner riders. The bike has been well > maintained and i have a box > of new spares such as levers, cables and gearing. It > has a SOBE/ Travis > Pastrana sticker kit plus new Michelin starcross > tires and gold chain > (bling!). I'm asking $850. > > Thanks > Dean > 540-429-0536 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 16:04:44 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 16:04:40 -0500 From: "Chris Norloff" Reply-To: To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Kill a motorcyclist, get a slap on the wrist Just goes to show how the criminal laws are so inadequate. Now comes the civil laws - I hope the dead motorcyclist's survivors/estate have a vigorous suit pending. At 17 she won't have any income, but her parents must. And some insurance. And it seems that salaries could be attached. It shouldn't be like this, but it is. No "crime", but an innocent is dead and now the perpetrator needs to come up with some bucks. Chris Norloff ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Louis F. Caplan" Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 10:59:28 -0800 (PST) > >So, according to this article, if you kill a motorcyclist, it's okay as long as >you are under 18. (well, $345 and a bunch of points) Pardon me while I puke. > >Louis > >- - - - - - - - - - > >From: http://www.gazette.net/200347/bethesda/news/188393-1.html > >Teen faces charges for fatal crash > > Nov. 19, 2003 > >A Chevy Chase teen is facing misdemeanor charges as a juvenile for her >involvement in a car crash on Seven Locks Road in June that killed a Potomac >man. > >Katherine Gorman, then 17, of Chevy Chase, was driving a 2002 Ford Escape north >on Seven Locks Road at about 5:15 p.m. June 25 when it crossed the centerline >for unknown reasons. > >Glenn Braswell, 58, of Potomac was riding a 2000 Harley Davidson motorcycle >south on Seven Locks Road with Randi Lynn Cohen, 58, also of Potomac, on the >back. The Escape hit Braswell head-on, despite his efforts to swerve onto the >southbound shoulder to avoid the collision. > >On Sept. 9, police charged Gorman with failure to drive right of center, a >misdemeanor that carries a possible $75 ticket and three points on a license; >negligent driving, a charge that carries a possible $270 ticket and three >points on a license; and possession of a fictitious license, a charge that >carries up to 12 points, said assistant state's attorney Stephen Chaikin >Thursday. Chaikin said Gorman also had a legitimate driver's license. > >Because the crash happened while Gorman was younger than 18, she has been >charged as a juvenile. All three charges will be addressed during a December >adjudication -- the juvenile equivalent of a trial -- scheduled before a >Circuit Court judge. > >Terrence McGann, an attorney representing Gorman, did not return a call seeking >comment. > >There is no evidence that would support Gorman facing stronger charges, Chaikin >said. > >"In Maryland, in order to prosecute or indict someone for automobile >manslaughter or death from a traffic fatality, there must be gross negligence >involved," Chaikin said, adding that Gorman did not show willful, wanton or >reckless disregard for human life, conditions necessary to charge someone with >gross negligence. > >Chaikin did not allow a Gazette reporter to view the file because Gorman is >being charged as a juvenile. He provided the following account of the crash >from the file: > >Braswell and Cohen were riding south on Seven Locks Road at about 35 mph, when >Gorman crossed the center line and struck them. > >Gorman had been driving north on Seven Locks Road, and later told police that >she was traveling to a summer league basketball game at Winston Churchill High >School. One witness to the crash told investigators in June that the SUV didn't >just swerve into oncoming traffic, but actually traveled steadily forward at a >constant speed, striking the motorcycle head-on. > >Braswell was pronounced dead at the scene. Cohen was transferred to a hospital >where she remained in critical condition following the crash. > >Gorman told police that she did not know how or why she crossed the center >line. She added that she had not been talking on a cell phone, or playing with >the radio and was not on medication. > >There was no evidence that Gorman had been drinking. > > >===== >"Admiral" Louis Caplan 1998 Kawasaki Concours Fairfax, VA >Please consider helping me support the Pediatric Brain Tumor Foundation >http://www.geocities.com/nighthawk700/rideforkids.htm > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now >http://companion.yahoo.com/ > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 16:21:19 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 13:21:16 -0800 (PST) From: Isaac Blanck Subject: Re: Kill a motorcyclist, get a slap on the wrist To: cnorloff@XXXXXX, DC-Cycles if driving on the wrong side of the road isn't gross negligence justifying a manslaughter charge, what is? There ain't much more dangerous than that. jib --- Chris Norloff wrote: > Just goes to show how the criminal laws are so > inadequate. > > Now comes the civil laws - I hope the dead > motorcyclist's survivors/estate have a vigorous suit > pending. At 17 she won't have any income, but her > parents must. And some insurance. And it seems that > salaries could be attached. > > It shouldn't be like this, but it is. No "crime", > but an innocent is dead and now the perpetrator > needs to come up with some bucks. > > Chris Norloff > > > ---------- Original Message > ---------------------------------- > From: "Louis F. Caplan" > Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 10:59:28 -0800 (PST) > > > > >So, according to this article, if you kill a > motorcyclist, it's okay as long as > >you are under 18. (well, $345 and a bunch of > points) Pardon me while I puke. > > > >Louis > > > >- - - - - - - - - - > > > >From: > http://www.gazette.net/200347/bethesda/news/188393-1.html > > > >Teen faces charges for fatal crash > > > > Nov. 19, 2003 > > > >A Chevy Chase teen is facing misdemeanor charges as > a juvenile for her > >involvement in a car crash on Seven Locks Road in > June that killed a Potomac > >man. > > > >Katherine Gorman, then 17, of Chevy Chase, was > driving a 2002 Ford Escape north > >on Seven Locks Road at about 5:15 p.m. June 25 when > it crossed the centerline > >for unknown reasons. > > > >Glenn Braswell, 58, of Potomac was riding a 2000 > Harley Davidson motorcycle > >south on Seven Locks Road with Randi Lynn Cohen, > 58, also of Potomac, on the > >back. The Escape hit Braswell head-on, despite his > efforts to swerve onto the > >southbound shoulder to avoid the collision. > > > >On Sept. 9, police charged Gorman with failure to > drive right of center, a > >misdemeanor that carries a possible $75 ticket and > three points on a license; > >negligent driving, a charge that carries a possible > $270 ticket and three > >points on a license; and possession of a fictitious > license, a charge that > >carries up to 12 points, said assistant state's > attorney Stephen Chaikin > >Thursday. Chaikin said Gorman also had a legitimate > driver's license. > > > >Because the crash happened while Gorman was younger > than 18, she has been > >charged as a juvenile. All three charges will be > addressed during a December > >adjudication -- the juvenile equivalent of a trial > -- scheduled before a > >Circuit Court judge. > > > >Terrence McGann, an attorney representing Gorman, > did not return a call seeking > >comment. > > > >There is no evidence that would support Gorman > facing stronger charges, Chaikin > >said. > > > >"In Maryland, in order to prosecute or indict > someone for automobile > >manslaughter or death from a traffic fatality, > there must be gross negligence > >involved," Chaikin said, adding that Gorman did not > show willful, wanton or > >reckless disregard for human life, conditions > necessary to charge someone with > >gross negligence. > > > >Chaikin did not allow a Gazette reporter to view > the file because Gorman is > >being charged as a juvenile. He provided the > following account of the crash > >from the file: > > > >Braswell and Cohen were riding south on Seven Locks > Road at about 35 mph, when > >Gorman crossed the center line and struck them. > > > >Gorman had been driving north on Seven Locks Road, > and later told police that > >she was traveling to a summer league basketball > game at Winston Churchill High > >School. One witness to the crash told investigators > in June that the SUV didn't > >just swerve into oncoming traffic, but actually > traveled steadily forward at a > >constant speed, striking the motorcycle head-on. > > > >Braswell was pronounced dead at the scene. Cohen > was transferred to a hospital > >where she remained in critical condition following > the crash. > > > >Gorman told police that she did not know how or why > she crossed the center > >line. She added that she had not been talking on a > cell phone, or playing with > >the radio and was not on medication. > > > >There was no evidence that Gorman had been > drinking. > > > > > >===== > >"Admiral" Louis Caplan 1998 Kawasaki Concours > Fairfax, VA > >Please consider helping me support the Pediatric > Brain Tumor Foundation > >http://www.geocities.com/nighthawk700/rideforkids.htm > > > >__________________________________ > >Do you Yahoo!? > >Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now > >http://companion.yahoo.com/ > > > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 16:36:03 2003 From: "Jim McGonigle" To: "'DC-Cycles'" Subject: RE: Kill a motorcyclist, get a slap on the wrist Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 16:35:53 -0500 Negligence is not incompetence. If she was drinking or doing makeup that would be negligence. I'm not saying that she shouldn't be punished, but I don't think she was negligent. She was just a 17 year old girl who was driving the speed limit, accidentally crossed the line at the wrong time. If you want to blame something blame the lack of driver education. And don't tell me that no one here has never crossed the center line by accident... I have. IMHO, -Jim -----Original Message----- From: Isaac Blanck [mailto:thelostshark@XXXXXX] Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 4:21 PM To: cnorloff@XXXXXX; DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Kill a motorcyclist, get a slap on the wrist if driving on the wrong side of the road isn't gross negligence justifying a manslaughter charge, what is? There ain't much more dangerous than that. jib --- Chris Norloff wrote: > Just goes to show how the criminal laws are so > inadequate. > > Now comes the civil laws - I hope the dead > motorcyclist's survivors/estate have a vigorous suit > pending. At 17 she won't have any income, but her > parents must. And some insurance. And it seems that > salaries could be attached. > > It shouldn't be like this, but it is. No "crime", > but an innocent is dead and now the perpetrator > needs to come up with some bucks. > > Chris Norloff > > > ---------- Original Message > ---------------------------------- > From: "Louis F. Caplan" > Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 10:59:28 -0800 (PST) > > > > >So, according to this article, if you kill a > motorcyclist, it's okay as long as > >you are under 18. (well, $345 and a bunch of > points) Pardon me while I puke. > > > >Louis > > > >- - - - - - - - - - > > > >From: > http://www.gazette.net/200347/bethesda/news/188393-1.html > > > >Teen faces charges for fatal crash > > > > Nov. 19, 2003 > > > >A Chevy Chase teen is facing misdemeanor charges as > a juvenile for her > >involvement in a car crash on Seven Locks Road in > June that killed a Potomac > >man. > > > >Katherine Gorman, then 17, of Chevy Chase, was > driving a 2002 Ford Escape north > >on Seven Locks Road at about 5:15 p.m. June 25 when > it crossed the centerline > >for unknown reasons. > > > >Glenn Braswell, 58, of Potomac was riding a 2000 > Harley Davidson motorcycle > >south on Seven Locks Road with Randi Lynn Cohen, > 58, also of Potomac, on the > >back. The Escape hit Braswell head-on, despite his > efforts to swerve onto the > >southbound shoulder to avoid the collision. > > > >On Sept. 9, police charged Gorman with failure to > drive right of center, a > >misdemeanor that carries a possible $75 ticket and > three points on a license; > >negligent driving, a charge that carries a possible > $270 ticket and three > >points on a license; and possession of a fictitious > license, a charge that > >carries up to 12 points, said assistant state's > attorney Stephen Chaikin > >Thursday. Chaikin said Gorman also had a legitimate > driver's license. > > > >Because the crash happened while Gorman was younger > than 18, she has been > >charged as a juvenile. All three charges will be > addressed during a December > >adjudication -- the juvenile equivalent of a trial > -- scheduled before a > >Circuit Court judge. > > > >Terrence McGann, an attorney representing Gorman, > did not return a call seeking > >comment. > > > >There is no evidence that would support Gorman > facing stronger charges, Chaikin > >said. > > > >"In Maryland, in order to prosecute or indict > someone for automobile > >manslaughter or death from a traffic fatality, > there must be gross negligence > >involved," Chaikin said, adding that Gorman did not > show willful, wanton or > >reckless disregard for human life, conditions > necessary to charge someone with > >gross negligence. > > > >Chaikin did not allow a Gazette reporter to view > the file because Gorman is > >being charged as a juvenile. He provided the > following account of the crash > >from the file: > > > >Braswell and Cohen were riding south on Seven Locks > Road at about 35 mph, when > >Gorman crossed the center line and struck them. > > > >Gorman had been driving north on Seven Locks Road, > and later told police that > >she was traveling to a summer league basketball > game at Winston Churchill High > >School. One witness to the crash told investigators > in June that the SUV didn't > >just swerve into oncoming traffic, but actually > traveled steadily forward at a > >constant speed, striking the motorcycle head-on. > > > >Braswell was pronounced dead at the scene. Cohen > was transferred to a hospital > >where she remained in critical condition following > the crash. > > > >Gorman told police that she did not know how or why > she crossed the center > >line. She added that she had not been talking on a > cell phone, or playing with > >the radio and was not on medication. > > > >There was no evidence that Gorman had been > drinking. > > > > > >===== > >"Admiral" Louis Caplan 1998 Kawasaki Concours > Fairfax, VA > >Please consider helping me support the Pediatric > Brain Tumor Foundation > >http://www.geocities.com/nighthawk700/rideforkids.htm > > > >__________________________________ > >Do you Yahoo!? > >Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now > >http://companion.yahoo.com/ > > > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 16:43:45 2003 Subject: RE: Kill a motorcyclist, get a slap on the wrist From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 21 Nov 2003 16:40:06 -0500 When I read it I first thought of this web site: http://www.msgroup.org/CASESTUDY.html A rider had target fixation on a pickup and crashed into it. From the description it sounds very very similar. Carl On Fri, 2003-11-21 at 16:35, Jim McGonigle wrote: > Negligence is not incompetence. If she was drinking or doing makeup that > would be negligence. I'm not saying that she shouldn't be punished, but I > don't think she was negligent. She was just a 17 year old girl who was > driving the speed limit, accidentally crossed the line at the wrong time. > If you want to blame something blame the lack of driver education. > > And don't tell me that no one here has never crossed the center line by > accident... I have. > > IMHO, > -Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: Isaac Blanck [mailto:thelostshark@XXXXXX] > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 4:21 PM > To: cnorloff@XXXXXX; DC-Cycles > Subject: Re: Kill a motorcyclist, get a slap on the wrist > > > if driving on the wrong side of the road isn't gross > negligence justifying a manslaughter charge, what is? > There ain't much more dangerous than that. jib > --- Chris Norloff wrote: > > Just goes to show how the criminal laws are so > > inadequate. > > > > Now comes the civil laws - I hope the dead > > motorcyclist's survivors/estate have a vigorous suit > > pending. At 17 she won't have any income, but her > > parents must. And some insurance. And it seems that > > salaries could be attached. > > > > It shouldn't be like this, but it is. No "crime", > > but an innocent is dead and now the perpetrator > > needs to come up with some bucks. > > > > Chris Norloff > > > > > > ---------- Original Message > > ---------------------------------- > > From: "Louis F. Caplan" > > Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 10:59:28 -0800 (PST) > > > > > > > >So, according to this article, if you kill a > > motorcyclist, it's okay as long as > > >you are under 18. (well, $345 and a bunch of > > points) Pardon me while I puke. > > > > > >Louis > > > > > >- - - - - - - - - - > > > > > >From: > > > http://www.gazette.net/200347/bethesda/news/188393-1.html > > > > > >Teen faces charges for fatal crash > > > > > > Nov. 19, 2003 > > > > > >A Chevy Chase teen is facing misdemeanor charges as > > a juvenile for her > > >involvement in a car crash on Seven Locks Road in > > June that killed a Potomac > > >man. > > > > > >Katherine Gorman, then 17, of Chevy Chase, was > > driving a 2002 Ford Escape north > > >on Seven Locks Road at about 5:15 p.m. June 25 when > > it crossed the centerline > > >for unknown reasons. > > > > > >Glenn Braswell, 58, of Potomac was riding a 2000 > > Harley Davidson motorcycle > > >south on Seven Locks Road with Randi Lynn Cohen, > > 58, also of Potomac, on the > > >back. The Escape hit Braswell head-on, despite his > > efforts to swerve onto the > > >southbound shoulder to avoid the collision. > > > > > >On Sept. 9, police charged Gorman with failure to > > drive right of center, a > > >misdemeanor that carries a possible $75 ticket and > > three points on a license; > > >negligent driving, a charge that carries a possible > > $270 ticket and three > > >points on a license; and possession of a fictitious > > license, a charge that > > >carries up to 12 points, said assistant state's > > attorney Stephen Chaikin > > >Thursday. Chaikin said Gorman also had a legitimate > > driver's license. > > > > > >Because the crash happened while Gorman was younger > > than 18, she has been > > >charged as a juvenile. All three charges will be > > addressed during a December > > >adjudication -- the juvenile equivalent of a trial > > -- scheduled before a > > >Circuit Court judge. > > > > > >Terrence McGann, an attorney representing Gorman, > > did not return a call seeking > > >comment. > > > > > >There is no evidence that would support Gorman > > facing stronger charges, Chaikin > > >said. > > > > > >"In Maryland, in order to prosecute or indict > > someone for automobile > > >manslaughter or death from a traffic fatality, > > there must be gross negligence > > >involved," Chaikin said, adding that Gorman did not > > show willful, wanton or > > >reckless disregard for human life, conditions > > necessary to charge someone with > > >gross negligence. > > > > > >Chaikin did not allow a Gazette reporter to view > > the file because Gorman is > > >being charged as a juvenile. He provided the > > following account of the crash > > >from the file: > > > > > >Braswell and Cohen were riding south on Seven Locks > > Road at about 35 mph, when > > >Gorman crossed the center line and struck them. > > > > > >Gorman had been driving north on Seven Locks Road, > > and later told police that > > >she was traveling to a summer league basketball > > game at Winston Churchill High > > >School. One witness to the crash told investigators > > in June that the SUV didn't > > >just swerve into oncoming traffic, but actually > > traveled steadily forward at a > > >constant speed, striking the motorcycle head-on. > > > > > >Braswell was pronounced dead at the scene. Cohen > > was transferred to a hospital > > >where she remained in critical condition following > > the crash. > > > > > >Gorman told police that she did not know how or why > > she crossed the center > > >line. She added that she had not been talking on a > > cell phone, or playing with > > >the radio and was not on medication. > > > > > >There was no evidence that Gorman had been > > drinking. > > > > > > > > >===== > > >"Admiral" Louis Caplan 1998 Kawasaki Concours > > Fairfax, VA > > >Please consider helping me support the Pediatric > > Brain Tumor Foundation > > > >http://www.geocities.com/nighthawk700/rideforkids.htm > > > > > >__________________________________ > > >Do you Yahoo!? > > >Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now > > >http://companion.yahoo.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now > http://companion.yahoo.com/ > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 17:51:50 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "dc-cycles list" , "VFRLIST" Subject: Depth and speed perception Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 17:51:03 -0500 An interesting item in yesterday's LA Times. About perceptions and why people pull in front of trains bearing down on them at 80 mph. While the focus of the article is grade crossing crashes, some of the studies about speed and depth perception are germane to interactions between cagers and motorcyclists. Read the whole thing. Free registration required. http://tinyurl.com/w1qi Some money quotes. "One peculiarity of human perception is that large objects in motion appear to be moving more slowly than they really are. We can observe this phenomenon at any airport, said Herschel Liebowitz, emeritus professor of psychology at Pennsylvania State University. Jumbo jets appear to drift down to the tarmac during landings, while smaller jets seem to race toward the runway, even when the larger plane is going faster." ---------- PAW comment - People are attuned to the size and movement patterns of cars and trucks, not motorcycles, or in this case trains. They are unfamiliar with both types of vehicles and can't judge their speed. They tend to view everything from the car driver's perspective. Then there's the compounding problem of judging speed in your peripheral vision. --------- "Green explains the problem: Typically, you glimpse the train with your peripheral vision. Never as clear as central vision, peripheral vision is especially poor at gauging velocity. Even as the train moves toward you, and you move toward it, the train's image maintains a relatively constant position on your retina, at the edge of your visual field. The result: "You don't see it moving," Green said, and you assume it is still a safe distance away. Then, when you are about to collide, the train's image on your retina suddenly expands in all directions - a condition called looming. But at that point, you probably can't stop in time, and neither can the train. By Green's estimate, perception - or misperception - is a factor in more than 80% of highway accidents, including those involving trains." --------------- Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 19:11:40 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 19:11:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Riding Proficiency 101 Cc: To: "Julian Halton" From: Randy Moran On Friday, November 21, 2003, at 11:11 AM, Julian Halton asked: > Cornering > Have yet to find a satisfactory answer to what should I do when I take > a > corner too hot. Hough ( proficient motorcycling) says lean the bike > harder > and roll on the throttle- his stress being if you were looking you > would not > be in this predicament. Julian, Here's my take on the subject, FWIW. If you believe you've entered the turn too quickly, chances are that survival instincts have you already on the brakes. If you're going to attempt to make the turn (usually the best course of action), EASE off the brakes, force yourself to look AWAY from the approaching outside of the turn and look as far as possible INTO the turn. Force yourself to turn harder while moving your body weight smoothly to the inside of the turn, if possible. Do not shut off the throttle or get on the brakes once you've begun the harder turn, as this will transfer more weight to the front of the motorcycle and (possibly) use up the available traction, which will, in turn, cause you to lose the front end and low-side. Smoothly roll on the throttle or, at least, keep constant throttle to avoid loading the front. Of course, all the aforementioned hinges on you being able to suppress panic and avoid tightening at the controls. If you succumb, you are almost guaranteed to crash. The explanation of "motorcycle cornering physics" which has best stayed with me over the years involves thinking of the bike as a set of scales and using the particular combination of braking and throttle that will maintain equilibrium between the two plates (i.e. a generally equal amount of traction duties being handled by the front and rear tire at any given time, or a 50/50 weight distribution, front-to-rear). Of course there are exceptions to this desired state, hard braking and hard acceleration being the two main ones, but the idea is to go away from and back to equilibrium as smoothly as possible. All things being equal, you can achieve some incredible lean angle on a modern motorcycle, especially a sportybike such as your Bandit, and get through pretty much any dicey turning situation (provided you have not completely screwed the pooch on your entry speed). One good way to approach learning about your bike's limits is to participate in a track day; quite simply, you will be shocked at what you and your bike can do. Good Luck, RPM From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 22:09:34 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 22:07:15 -0500 To: "Jim McGonigle" , "'DC-Cycles'" From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: Kill a motorcyclist, get a slap on the wrist At 04:35 PM 11/21/03 -0500, Jim McGonigle wrote: > >Negligence is not incompetence. If she was drinking or doing makeup that >would be negligence. No, negligence isn't incompetence...it is failure to do what a reasonable person would do. Staying on your own side of the road, barring some major emergency, is what a reasonable person would do, and what everyone is required to do by law, just in case they are too stupid to figure out that it's a good idea on their own. She was certainly negligent. >She was just a 17 year old girl who was >driving the speed limit, accidentally crossed the line at the wrong time. Report said she crossed over and made no attempt to get back, even with oncoming traffic...and she has no explanation for this. She's ruled out the more obvious possibilities (drinking, doing other things (makeup, radio, cell phone), mechanical problems with the vehicle). That's not an accident, it's negligent driving and given that a fatality resulted, negligent homicide (manslaughter)...or perhaps intentional homicide, but that would be pretty hard to prove with what's been made public. She presumably passed a driving test to get her license (the real one, not the "fictitious" one she had on her at the time), so she should have been competent to control the vehicle under those circumstances...so her failure to do so is negligence. What else could it be? She had the ability, she failed to use it for reasons she can't explain, and someone died. >If you want to blame something blame the lack of driver education. No, I blame her. She was the one who got behind the wheel. She was the one who didn't drive legally and safely. She is the one responsible for the death of a rider and the hospitalization of his passenger. If she needed more driver training to be safe it was her responsibility to get it, either on her own or in a formal setting. >And don't tell me that no one here has never crossed the center line by >accident... I have. Perhaps that's why you don't want her to be guilty of anything serious? I have never crossed the center line by accident. Having any part of my vehicle on the "wrong side" of the line gives me the heebie-jeebies. I'm *well* aware of when I do it, and I don't do it lightly. Getting around obstacles, making left turns off of highways, and passing (where it's not a double-yellow) are all times when I cross on purpose...and I'm very careful about it, and well aware of where I am until I'm back on my own side. I see people on the wrong side all the time around here of course. Usually on curves where they are moving faster than their competence with their vehicle allows, so they end up using some of my lane in addition to their own to stay on the road. What's really sad is when they are in front of me, and I take the same curve at the same speed, and don't get anywhere near the center line, despite a higher center of gravity and a lack of the sportier suspensions some of these nitwits have in their cars. The problem is their lack of driving ability, and their arrogance at thinking it's ok for them to drive like that because "everyone does it". There's nothing more to it. Incompetent idiots, every one of them, no question about it. When they kill someone, lock them up. At least they won't be on the roads again for a while. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 22:22:04 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 19:22:01 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: The results are in To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: > From Carl's description, it sounds like he has a security system on his > bike and one of the sensors is in the turnsignal stalk. This sensor > failed and is telling the bike that someone is attempting to steal his > bike. Carl, correct me if I'm wrong. > I think Mike basically got it right. From the diagram, there's a single module that the signals plug in to so a problem with the security module would also mean problems with the signals (like not stopping). I did notice that morning that the turn signals weren't shutting off after turning. I normally reset the lane changing signals myself (flip on, change lanes, flip off instead of waiting). > Scooter (mechanically challenged) > Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 22:28:59 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 19:28:56 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: The results are in To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 05:01 PM 11/20/03 -0800, Carl Schelin wrote: > >The turn signal security sensor module has failed. Basically the > failure > >is keeping my bike from being stolen :-/ He said it's not uncommon. > > > >They're ordering a new one. I hope it doesn't take a month. > > Weird. I would have expected it to keep the bike from getting started > at > all, not shut it down in a few seconds. > > I wonder if the "not uncommon" is related to the location? It's near > the > battery box, which puts it pretty close to the rear engine > cylinder...heat > and electronics don't usually go well together. You've ridden some > pretty > long stretches on that bike...maybe it just got cooked? > It's certainly possible. I started blowing bulbs on Memorial day (three that weekend I think) and then they started again on the Boise trip after it started getting hot. I also replaced both bulbs a couple of days before the module went out and the right bulb was acting weird. It was like it had a hard time figuring out which element was out. Sometimes the running light would stay on. Others the turn signal would flash but the running lights would go out. I think it was a sign of an impending problem that even the Harley service folks didn't catch since I've been telling them since Memorial day ("might be the vibration, might need to check the ground of the signal socket"). > I asked a couple of folks at Battley's last night about it. Their > initial guesses were voltage regulator or one of the engine sensors. > > The electrical system manual for Softails is about $56...I still don't > own one. ;^) It's not part of the service manual? I have schematics and stuff in mine. Hmm, I'd be curious about it as well. I'll have to check when I'm down their way tomorrow. By the way, tomorrow me and the delinquent neighbor kid will be tearing apart the CB750. I'm thinking I'll have to cut off the pipes since I can't gain access to the last bolt. I also ordered a sprung seat from e-bay yesterday. > > -- Mike B. > Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 22:35:10 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 19:35:07 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: The results are in To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > On a modern Harley there is one module that handles cancelling of turn > signals after a turn as well as being the basis of the security system > (which is optional). If you get the security system (either the "smart > siren" or the "pager", or both) the parts plug into the base unit which > is standard with the bike. On the '02s, security was optionial. I can buy a pager and/or siren add on but the ability of the thing to just be disabled is enough for me. > > The reason for combining the two is that both need a tilt sensor, a > timer > and some other parts, and the ability to control the turn signal > lamps...the turn signals get cancelled shortly after the bike leans far > enough to indicate the turn has been completed, and the security alarm > goes > off if the bike gets stood up or otherwise moved much, and part of the > alarm function is to flash the lights in a strange pattern (alternating > sides...looks vaguely police-ish). Also if you turn everything on and try to start it without cancelling security. > > I don't know if that's what's really wrong with Carl's bike, but it does > make sense that it could be. > That's what it sounds like to me. Of course we're all trying to figure out what the problem is based on the statement of the mech. He basically did what you did (traced the schematics and came to a conclusion) and is replacing the module based on the symptoms. From his message I didn't get the impression they had an actual code to follow. Still, it sounds logical. > -- Mike B. Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 22:37:04 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 19:37:01 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Cold ride, cool helmet To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 11:25 PM 11/20/03 -0500, Wayne Edelen wrote: > >Damn, it's cold out there at 10pm :-) Leathers were reasonably > >warm, but my chin just about froze off. > > My H-D helmet (made by HJC) has a removable chin guard...closes the gap > between your chin bar and throat. Probably to increase fogging > potential... :^) > I have a tightly knit thin scarf that I use. I've also used my bandana in a pinch. And the bandana works great in the rain. Just don't tuck the thing into your jacket :-/ > -- Mike B. > Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 22:41:25 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 19:41:23 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Riding Proficiency 101 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Julian Halton wrote: > Rear view mirrors: > I find I can adjust them for optimal view depending on rider position > (tuck > vs. upright). Of course this is a hindrance when I change position > mid-ride > and find myself tearing upper back muscles to check my six. Originally my mirrors (on the Suzuki) were horizontal and I kept adjusting them but I saw someone with them perpendicular to the cowling (looking like rabbit ears) and I find that it works great for both positions. While up I use the top corners to see behind me and don't have to worry about the bottoms. While crouched, I use the bottom outside corners for behind. I attached two concave mirrors on the inside since I only see my arms in that part of the mirrir. It also lets me see into my blind spot. It plays hell at night (too many lights) but they work great for the daytime. Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 22:50:12 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 19:50:09 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Gear 101 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Julian Halton wrote: > What security system for a bike do you recommend within budget? Is the > Dowco > G-50 cover with anti-tampering siren worthwhile or would I be paying > extra > for an easily defeated piece of technology? > > A disc lock or two (don't forget cables), a bike cover that locks. Just consider the bike the same as a convertible. Don't leave anything valuable on it. Whatever you leave, consider it lost then when you get back and it's still there you can be pleasantly surprised :-) Face it, you're trying to get the thief to steal someone elses bike and not yours. Make it a little harder and they'll move on. If they want yours, they'll take it no matter what safeguards you have on it. Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 22:58:17 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 19:58:14 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Anyone Ipoding on their bike? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Sean Jordan wrote: > MP3 players don't "skip." > Well, _iPod_ MP3 players anyway. I have a regular CD type mp3 player (forget the name (and you wonder why I create ride reports ;-) ). Occasionally it'll stop playing but it hasn't skipped just yet. It says it has an 8 minute cache. > The OS might crash, whereupon you simply reboot your iPod. > > (Going on 1 year with my iPod and still loving it....thanks, iPop!) > I've been thinking about one but I can't get over the price for the 20 gig one. > -Sean Jordan > > Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 23:05:30 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 20:05:29 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Rider Down To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- "Custer, Carl" wrote: > To my" Great advice so far but here's my [alt]155:" > Evil Overlord Carl Suggested: > "Shouldn't that be "2[alt]155" or are you just giving half of your > thoughts > ;-)" > > O.K how about [alt] 50 [alt]155 [alt]? Well, you don't _need_ to "[alt]50" since '2' is on the keyboard but yea, I guess that'd work. Why "[alt]?" ? > > > Carl. S. Custer > > Multidisciplinary Microbiologist > > USDA FSIS OPHS MD MIB > CS: "You're one of the "Men in Black"? Alternately, what's your OID?" > > Microbiological Issues Branch A.K.A. Microbiologists In Blue. > OID? Oklahoma Insurance Division? Presuming "MIB" is "Management Information Base" and "OID" is "Object IDentifier", both "SNMP" (Simple Network Management Protocol) terms. > Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 23:06:39 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 20:06:36 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Re: The results are in To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Bob Meyer wrote: > > > > > From: Mike Bartman > > > > On a modern Harley there is one module that handles cancelling of turn > > signals after a turn as well as being the basis of the security system > > (which is optional). If you get the security system (either the > "smart > > siren" or the "pager", or both) the parts plug into the base unit > which is > > standard with the bike. > > Darn. And here I thought it was to make sure nobody stole your turn > signals! > I think it'd be funnier if removing the bulb disabled the bike. > Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 > '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" > '92 ST1100, "red STag" > '02 919, "still looking for a name" > > A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers.... > Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 23:11:48 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 20:11:45 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: The results are in To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > In a message dated 11/21/2003 11:00:57 AM Eastern Standard Time, > omni@XXXXXX writes: > > > basis of the security system > > (which is optional). If you get the security system (either the > "smart > > siren" or the "pager", or both) the parts plug into the base unit > which is > > standard with the bike. > > So why can they not just unplug the damn security module and send the > bike > home until the new one arrives? > I mean there has to be a way to bypass the damn thing. > Well then it wouldn't be in spec and if I get the bike stolen because I couldn't set the alarm, well then I could sue East Coast for a new bike because they let it go in that condition. > FYI this sort of thing is not new. On the old Harly 90cc (Italian > manufacture) if the tail light burned out, yes I did say _tail light_, > the engine would > quit. (This was not the only bike I have seen, _and I did see it first > hand_ > that did this. Some manufacturers used the tail light filament as a sort > of > voltage regulator running the ignition circuit through the taillight.) > There was another that used the tail light as a ground for the circuit. If it was out, the bike couldn't start. I read about it while researching my chopper project. > John Walters (Long John) > PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 23:18:05 2003 Subject: Re: Anyone Ipoding on their bike? From: Brian Roach To: Carl Schelin Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 21 Nov 2003 23:17:57 -0500 On Fri, 2003-11-21 at 22:58, Carl Schelin wrote: > I've been thinking about one but I can't get over the price for the 20 gig > one. Just as an FYI, I'm really happy with my 20 gig Creative Labs Nomad, and it is significantly cheaper than the iPod - $229 from Amazon.com, maybe cheaper at other places. - Roach From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 23:23:28 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 20:23:26 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Anyone Ipoding on their bike? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Brian Roach wrote: > On Fri, 2003-11-21 at 22:58, Carl Schelin wrote: > > > I've been thinking about one but I can't get over the price for the 20 > gig > > one. > > Just as an FYI, I'm really happy with my 20 gig Creative Labs Nomad, and > it is significantly cheaper than the iPod - $229 from Amazon.com, maybe > cheaper at other places. > Hmm. I've heard good things about it from other folks as well. I'll make a note... done. Now I won't forget :-) Thanks. > - Roach > Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 23:41:39 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 23:42:48 -0500 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: The results are in At 07:28 PM 11/21/03 -0800, Carl Schelin wrote: >> The electrical system manual for Softails is about $56...I still don't >> own one. ;^) > >It's not part of the service manual? I have schematics and stuff in mine. >Hmm, I'd be curious about it as well. I'll have to check when I'm down >their way tomorrow. There are wiring schematics in the regular (main?) service manual, but they don't go into the diagnostic procedures for electrical problems...they just tell you what's connected to what and how. There's a whole separate manual for Softails' electrical systems. The name, and I think the part number, is listed in the owner's manual, and the dealer will have it too. They parts guys at Battley's weren't aware that there was one...they knew there was for the Road Kings, but they didn't know about the Softail one until I asked and they looked it up. That's how I got the price... :^) I didn't get the manual as I'm presuming that using it will require that "Diagnostic Technician" CD software and a computer to run it on, along with the special test modules and whatever to get the data with. I'm figuring that a simple multimeter isn't going to hack it. I'll let the dealer cope with that sort of thing for now. >By the way, tomorrow me and the delinquent neighbor kid will be tearing >apart the CB750. I'm thinking I'll have to cut off the pipes since I can't >gain access to the last bolt. I wonder how they put them on then. Or is this a changed configuration from stock (i.e. wreck damage)? Have fun! I think I'll go on the ride with the local HOGs myself. Supposed to be a gorgeous day, particularly for late November! Don't know how many more of those there will be. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 23:52:28 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 23:51:50 -0500 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Gear 101 At 07:50 PM 11/21/03 -0800, Carl Schelin wrote: > >Face it, you're trying to get the thief to steal someone elses bike and >not yours. Make it a little harder and they'll move on. If they want >yours, they'll take it no matter what safeguards you have on it. I wonder if we could set up some decoys? Get some old bikes on their last legs and paint them up pretty, and leave them out in good locations where they are likely to get stolen. The thieves probably won't take the time to fasten the wheels on tight, or make sure that the brakes will last more than one or two stops, or remove the spark plug from the gas tank... Fewer thieves should translate into fewer bikes stolen, right? :^) Of course if they do the "lift into a van" theft method we'd have to have an alternate plan...and explosives are really hard to come by these days. Maybe some sharp edges on the areas most likely to be used for lifting? Note: the above is intended only for humor and vicarious revenge fantasy purposes. Setting up such a thing in real life is likely to be highly illegal and carry stiff penalties...if they can trace the bike back to you anyway. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Nov 21 23:56:54 2003 Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 23:56:50 -0500 From: Skip Smith To: Leon Begeman CC: rmeyer9@XXXXXX, Mike Bartman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Killing Mike's Harley, was: Towing Service. "have you fixed a Ford lately?" generally, I hate Fords. they're a PITA to work on. that said, I had a 79 f250 that was built like a rock, and a LTD2 that I couldn't kill, try as I might. I've got a ranger with 200k that just now developed a knock, though I think that might be related to the cooling system failures. I've replaced all the freeze plugs as they belw out, but this time I think the head gasket has gone, dumping enough water into the oil to do some real damage. i suspect I'll just drive it until it takes a final shit, take the plates off and walk away. Leon Begeman wrote: > > Bob said: > > > All depends on the bike. I know of a surprising > > number of Honda ST1100s with more than 100K on the > > clock, and 3 or 4 with more than 200K. And yes, > > those are miles, not Km. > > Is there ANY model of car that won't last 100K miles? > You mentioned the Ford F-150, isn't an F-150 with less > than 100K miles a low mileage vehicle? I would > certainly consider it so. An F-150 ought to last 100K > miles with no more maintenance than 3 or 4 oil > changes, a couple of new sets of tires and a set of > brake pads. It probably wouldn't hurt to change the > air and fuel filters a couple of times, but that might > not be necessary. > > Bikes are fragile. > > Leon. > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now > http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Nov 22 00:02:43 2003 Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 00:02:32 -0500 From: Skip Smith To: Mike Bartman CC: Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Riding Proficiency 101 Mike Bartman wrote: > > At 12:05 PM 11/21/03 -0500, Dave Yates wrote: > > >If I'm tucked in, it's pretty unlikely I'll need the mirrors. > > This reminds me of a line from an old movie, "Gumball Rally". As the hired > Italian race driver prepares to start out, he reaches up and rips the > rearview mirror off the windshield of the Ferrari he's driving, tosses it > over the seat back, and says to the car's owner, his employer, "First rule > of Italian racing: what is behind does not matter!" saw a motorcycling t-shirt... picture of a rearview mirror, and the wrioting on the bottom says: "Objects in mirror do not matter" From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Nov 22 02:19:53 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 02:19:48 EST Subject: Re: Gear 101 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 11/21/2003 11:52:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, omni@XXXXXX writes: > I wonder if we could set up some decoys? Get some old bikes on their last > legs and paint them up pretty, and leave them out in good locations where > they are likely to get stolen. Then Lojack the suckers! I do not just want to stop the bastards from stealing my bike, I want the bastards in jail..... Or worse..... John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Nov 22 02:33:03 2003 Subject: Where to find a bike to buy Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 02:33:02 -0500 From: "Dave Blumgart" To: I'm looking around for a used-but-in-decent-condition, mid-range, re-entry-into-riding/commuter bike (e.g. a Seca II, or a GS 500, etc) . I'm checking the local bike listings on the 'Bay, and the WaPo classifieds. Is there anyplace else I should be checking? thanx From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Nov 22 08:28:38 2003 Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 08:28:16 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Dan Brown Subject: Re: Re: Anyone Ipoding on their bike? At 01:30 PM 11/21/2003 -0500, you wrote: >Don't do it! > >Four Point Violation for Driving while using earphones (what about CIA/FBI >people?) only if they catch you. ;-) >It'll be on your record for 3 years > >put some big speakers on bike, then it's legal? Within the noise pollution limits that are in place in certain jurisdictions, Arlington for example. -- Resist or Serve From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Nov 22 08:48:44 2003 Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 08:48:23 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, nedod@XXXXXX From: Dan Brown Subject: Motorcycle Parking? Saw this yesterday: http://www.brauhausdc.org/~brown/images/moto_parking.jpg Note that the yellow markings, which are a bit tough to read in my picture, say "motorcycle parking" -- Resist or Serve From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Nov 22 09:29:50 2003 Reply-To: "S. Russell" From: "S. Russell" To: , , "Dan Brown" Subject: Re: Motorcycle Parking? Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 09:29:02 -0500 Do you think people read signs? If so, why do they not merge, stop, yield or right turn on red AFTER stop? They just keep on their cell phones and mind their business and screw the rest, this is their road. I saw a car pull out of a parking garage yesterday, didn't look. I also saw a great display of motorcycle emergency gear down by a red 90's Honda Nighthawk in Bethesda. The person looked at the motorcycle as to say "you shouldn't have been there". Oh my god, he had to put down his cell phone. Scott 1984 Honda CB700SC Nighthawk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Brown" To: ; Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2003 8:48 AM Subject: Motorcycle Parking? > > > Saw this yesterday: > > http://www.brauhausdc.org/~brown/images/moto_parking.jpg > > Note that the yellow markings, which are a bit tough to read in my > picture, say "motorcycle parking" > > > > > -- > Resist or Serve > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Nov 22 10:04:22 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: Re: Where to find a bike to buy Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 10:03:46 -0500 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79e67de9f897e057be94e6ed4acbd51c7f350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c > I'm looking around for a used-but-in-decent-condition, mid-range, re-entry-into-riding/commuter bike (e.g. a Seca II, or a GS 500, etc) . >I'm checking the local bike listings on the 'Bay, and the WaPo classifieds. Is there anyplace else I should be checking? > > thanx [Dave] have you tried cycle trader or www.traderonline.com ? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Nov 22 10:17:03 2003 From: David Cross Subject: Re: Anyone Ipoding on their bike? Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 10:16:47 -0500 To: dccycles I have dropped my iPod twice onto concrete and while I don't know if it skipped because the headphone cord unplugged in the fall it was working fine both times once I picked it up and inserted the headphones again. My iPod is in a clear plastic "iSee" case which I am sure helped prevent damage to the outside of the iPod but I doubt it does much to dampen the jolt to the internals. Some folks on the BMW K1200LT list (BMW's touring bike) use iPods on their long distance rides and have had no complaints. Apple's tech specs use the term "Skip Protection" and lists it at 25 minutes. Dave From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Nov 22 10:36:46 2003 Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 07:36:38 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: RE: Kill a motorcyclist, get a slap on the wrist To: "'DC-Cycles'" --- Mike Bartman wrote: > I have never crossed the center line by accident. Having > any part of my > vehicle on the "wrong side" of the line gives me the > heebie-jeebies..... > > I see people on the wrong side all the time around here of > course. Usually > on curves where they are moving faster than their > competence with their > vehicle allows, so they end up using some of my lane in > addition to their > own to stay on the road.... Ditto. Mike, you're sure absolutely, 100% right on this one.. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Nov 22 10:41:40 2003 Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 07:41:23 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Motorcycle Parking? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- "S. Russell" wrote: > Do you think people read signs? If so, why do they not > merge, stop, yield > or right turn on red AFTER stop? Or left turn on red where it's legal or safe to do so, or keep to the right (or left) at stops on multi-lane intersections so that other can turn left (or right) on red? Because most people are dumb, self-centered shits, that's why. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Nov 22 10:49:16 2003 Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 07:49:04 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Separation pangs... To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In an uncontrollable fit of good sense, I actually sold my Falco on eBay a week or so ago, and last night was the night to drop it off for the buyer's pick-up. I've sold a lot of bikes over the years, but this was the first one that actually felt painful. Especially after a slow drive in the dark to Burke with my wife following in the Bimmer, carrying the stock exhaust system, soft bags, pillion seat, and assorted spares, slow enough that I could just flow with traffic and completely absorb the fabulous sound and feel of the bike for the last time. I did *not* want to leave that bike behind. Damn, at least I don't have to pay four years of college tuition. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Nov 22 10:50:48 2003 Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 07:50:45 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: The results are in To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 07:28 PM 11/21/03 -0800, Carl Schelin wrote: > > >By the way, tomorrow me and the delinquent neighbor kid will be tearing > >apart the CB750. I'm thinking I'll have to cut off the pipes since I > can't > >gain access to the last bolt. > > I wonder how they put them on then. Or is this a changed configuration > from stock (i.e. wreck damage)? > Nah, the bolt is rusted on and the head is basically rounded. Access to the head end of the bolt is very restricted. I can't even get a vice grip into the space. I figure if I cut off the middle pipe and remove the other three, I'll have easier access once I remove the engine. > Have fun! I think I'll go on the ride with the local HOGs myself. > Supposed to be a gorgeous day, particularly for late November! Don't > know > how many more of those there will be. > Good luck and watch the turns. > -- Mike B. > Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Nov 22 11:05:06 2003 Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 08:04:58 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Anyone Ipoding on their bike? To: Brian Roach , Carl Schelin Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Yes brian but its NOT an Ipod, a beautiful little device that creates cult-like worship in its owners! (-: --- Brian Roach wrote: > On Fri, 2003-11-21 at 22:58, Carl Schelin wrote: > > > I've been thinking about one but I can't get over > the price for the 20 gig > > one. > > Just as an FYI, I'm really happy with my 20 gig > Creative Labs Nomad, and > it is significantly cheaper than the iPod - $229 > from Amazon.com, maybe > cheaper at other places. > > - Roach > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Nov 22 11:55:22 2003 Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 11:45:16 -0500 To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Gear 101 At 02:19 AM 11/22/03 EST, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: >In a message dated 11/21/2003 11:52:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, >omni@XXXXXX writes: > >> I wonder if we could set up some decoys? Get some old bikes on their last >> legs and paint them up pretty, and leave them out in good locations where >> they are likely to get stolen. > >Then Lojack the suckers! Now *there's* an idea that would be legal! I suspect that if someone wanted to do such a thing, the local police would be happy to cooperate. Might be worth some extra thinks... >I do not just want to stop the bastards from stealing my bike, I want the >bastards in jail..... >Or worse..... That was the idea... :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Nov 22 11:55:26 2003 Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 11:56:08 -0500 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: The results are in At 07:50 AM 11/22/03 -0800, Carl Schelin wrote: >--- Mike Bartman wrote: >> I wonder how they put them on then. Or is this a changed configuration >> from stock (i.e. wreck damage)? > >Nah, the bolt is rusted on and the head is basically rounded. Access to >the head end of the bolt is very restricted. I can't even get a vice grip Ah. You have my sympathies. Hope you have the right tools for the job. That sort of thing is a real PITA if you don't. >> Have fun! I think I'll go on the ride with the local HOGs myself. >> Supposed to be a gorgeous day, particularly for late November! Don't >> know how many more of those there will be. > >Good luck and watch the turns. Thanks. Ended up working until 3:30am, so I wasn't fit to get up at 8am to go ride with them...drat it. I'll just go ride solo today. No way am I staying in and working while the sun's up on a day like today! (eating breakfast now... :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Nov 22 11:55:41 2003 Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 11:51:15 -0500 To: David Cross , dccycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Anyone Ipoding on their bike? At 10:16 AM 11/22/03 -0500, David Cross wrote: >Apple's tech specs use the term "Skip Protection" and lists it at 25 >minutes. Sounds like they are buffering data from the drive into RAM. That way the drive doesn't have to be running all the time (saves power), and when they *are* reading the drive, if anything causes a read error the read can just be repeated without affecting playback. Won't prevent a head crash if you overdo the acceleration limits while it *is* reading the drive though. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Nov 22 11:58:28 2003 From: "rich hall" To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Gear 101 Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 11:58:21 -0500 In the Post today (read the paper, don't know link) guy over in Laurel that shot someone breaking into his truck lil while back is getting charged for murder. >From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: Gear 101 >Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 02:19:48 EST > >In a message dated 11/21/2003 11:52:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, >omni@XXXXXX writes: > > > I wonder if we could set up some decoys? Get some old bikes on their >last > > legs and paint them up pretty, and leave them out in good locations >where > > they are likely to get stolen. > >Then Lojack the suckers! >I do not just want to stop the bastards from stealing my bike, I want the >bastards in jail..... >Or worse..... _________________________________________________________________ Share holiday photos without swamping your Inbox. Get MSN Extra Storage now! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Nov 22 12:08:27 2003 From: "rich hall" To: DBLUMGART@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Where to find a bike to buy Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 11:56:49 -0500 Micheal Jordan, on the list, has a Seca II I believe he wants to sell. I started on one, had it for 3.5 yrs, great starter. >From: "Dave Blumgart" >To: >Subject: Where to find a bike to buy >Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 02:33:02 -0500 > >I'm looking around for a used-but-in-decent-condition, mid-range, >re-entry-into-riding/commuter bike (e.g. a Seca II, or a GS 500, etc) . >I'm checking the local bike listings on the 'Bay, and the WaPo classifieds. > Is there anyplace else I should be checking? > >thanx > > _________________________________________________________________ Share holiday photos without swamping your Inbox. Get MSN Extra Storage now! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Nov 22 12:14:53 2003 Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 09:14:45 -0800 (PST) From: Sean Steele Subject: Re: Gear 101 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Sounds like justice. I can see killing for self defense, sure, or to save some innocent's life. But to save *property*? It'd be a little too close to the Wild West cattle rustler vigilante for me... Jes' my $.02. -Sean --- rich hall wrote: > In the Post today (read the paper, don't know link) > guy over in Laurel that > shot someone breaking into his truck lil while back > is getting charged for > murder. > > >From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX > >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > >Subject: Re: Gear 101 > >Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 02:19:48 EST > > > >In a message dated 11/21/2003 11:52:54 PM Eastern > Standard Time, > >omni@XXXXXX writes: > > > > > I wonder if we could set up some decoys? Get > some old bikes on their > >last > > > legs and paint them up pretty, and leave them > out in good locations > >where > > > they are likely to get stolen. > > > >Then Lojack the suckers! > >I do not just want to stop the bastards from > stealing my bike, I want the > >bastards in jail..... > >Or worse..... > > _________________________________________________________________ > Share holiday photos without swamping your Inbox. > Get MSN Extra Storage > now! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Nov 22 12:18:09 2003 Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 09:18:07 -0800 (PST) From: Sean Steele Subject: Man kills during alleged SUV break-in To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX This is the article you were probably thinking of, Rich: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A4891-2003Nov21.html -Sean __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Nov 22 12:18:42 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: "Jim McGonigle" , "'DC-Cycles'" Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Kill a motorcyclist, get a slap on the wrist Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 12:18:53 -0500 On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 16:35:53 -0500, Jim McGonigle wrote >If you want to blame something blame the lack of driver education. > Sorry to nit pick one statement but, I believe a person is responsible for their actions, not the gov't (education system in this case). If you want to take it a step further her parents would be responsible since she is 17 and they let he drive a vehicle without the proper training or sense of responsibility. I learned more about driving from my father than any stupid class I took with my peers at school. I believe their is a lot more to learn about driving than whats tested for on a driver test. The only exception is MSF, I learn a ton of stuff in that class and it's probably cause when I took it, I paid 300 bux for it, and I was 24 and not some snot nose 16 year old kid who is looking to impress his friends in class not learn how to drive. That being said I also think that when you drive on the road you accept a certain amount of risk and even more so when you ride a motorcycle. I think we all have the idea that it only takes a small mistake on our parts or the parts of others on the road to cause a serious accident. I have been the the same situation and the speed was probably a lot higher. I was exiting 270 south onto MD121 and an SUV was going the wrong way on the exit ramp around a blind courner (if you have taken the exit you will see what I mean). I sure as hell blame the other driver for being a stupid idiot, but their probably wasn't much neglagence involved. Rob -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Nov 22 12:35:56 2003 Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 12:35:50 -0500 From: "Chris Norloff" Reply-To: To: "List-dc cycles" Subject: for sale: pickup truck - Ranger 1995 Ford Ranger XLT pickup truck good condition, 81,000 mi. 5 speed, long bed, 2.3L 4-cyl., rear sliding window, bed liner, airbag, ABS, Pro-Lock security, step bumper with trailer hitch, Deep Dish Cast Aluminum wheels, A/C, AM/FM/cassette. Black with gray interior. Also comes with Cap (red). $4500. located in the City of Falls Church Chris 703-217-1679 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Nov 22 13:27:54 2003 Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 13:26:02 -0500 To: "rich hall" , PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Gear 101 At 11:58 AM 11/22/03 -0500, rich hall wrote: >In the Post today (read the paper, don't know link) guy over in Laurel that >shot someone breaking into his truck lil while back is getting charged for >murder. Yeah, unless he was in the truck at the time, that's the way it works here. You can't use deadly force except to prevent death or serious injury (such as maiming), and only then as a last resort. Protecting property doesn't count. Got to move to Louisiana for that. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Nov 22 14:04:42 2003 Reply-To: "Kathleen Loerich" From: "Kathleen Loerich" To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: Kill a motorcyclist, get a slap on the wrist Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 14:06:01 -0500 To attempt to correct some inadequacies in the current law, ABATE of Maryland is going to file a bill in the Maryland General Assembly during the 2004 session that starts in January. The bill's provisions will clearly not compensate for the loss of life or serious injury. It will, however, give sentencing options that are more than a the usual $75 fine and one point for failure to yield right-of-way. The final bill hasn't been drafted yet, but it will probably be similar to last year's bill HB-1114 (http://mlis.state.md.us/2003rs/bills/hb/hb1114f.rtf). It has provisions for additional fines and license suspension that are not available under current law. The bill has two tiers for penalties, one for an accident that involves bodily injury and another for an accident that results in a fatality. Several other states have passed or are working on similar legislation. The American Motorcyclists Association encourages states to work on this type of legislation as part of an initiative they refer to as "Motorcyclists Matter". There were provisions in last year's bill that prevented it from passing. They will be addressed in the 2004 version. More details will be available between now and January when the Maryland General Assembly session commences. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Nov 22 15:54:05 2003 Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 16:09:52 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Cold ride, cool helmet On Fri, 21 Nov 2003, Mike Bartman wrote: > At 11:25 PM 11/20/03 -0500, Wayne Edelen wrote: > >Damn, it's cold out there at 10pm :-) Leathers were reasonably > >warm, but my chin just about froze off. > > My H-D helmet (made by HJC) has a removable chin guard...closes the gap > between your chin bar and throat. Probably to increase fogging > potential... :^) I have the same thing in my AC-10. Doesn't do anything. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Nov 22 16:00:01 2003 Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 16:15:58 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Riding Proficiency 101 On Fri, 21 Nov 2003, Mike Bartman wrote: > At 08:45 AM 11/21/03 -0800, Tom Gimer wrote: > > >lesson 1: learn to never take a turn "too hot." > > > >if this is happening regularly, get yourself to the track > >or you'll be a stain before too long. > > Good advice, but a bit tricky to follow all the time. The main problem is > "decreasing radius blind turns". There's at least one of those on 193 just > outside the beltway in Virginia, and some of the beltway on/off ramps are > like that too (Georgia Avenue for instance). > > If you go into it at what would be a maximum safe speed for the part you > can see as you approach you will find that it's a bit too fast to finish > the turn and you are likely to wipe out. That's why you watch the 'vanishing point' of the turn. If the vanishing point is approaching you, the corner is tightening up (decreasing radius)... moving away, the turn is opening up... staying about the same, constant radius. It works very well in practice and is something I learned at Keith Code's school. Obviously this won't tell you if there is a 3 ton SUV just around that blind curve as it's opening up :-) -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Nov 22 17:35:31 2003 Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 14:35:28 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: The results are in To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 07:50 AM 11/22/03 -0800, Carl Schelin wrote: > >--- Mike Bartman wrote: > >> I wonder how they put them on then. Or is this a changed > configuration > >> from stock (i.e. wreck damage)? > > > >Nah, the bolt is rusted on and the head is basically rounded. Access to > >the head end of the bolt is very restricted. I can't even get a vice > grip > > Ah. You have my sympathies. Hope you have the right tools for the job. > That sort of thing is a real PITA if you don't. > Yea, I used a sawsall to cut the pipes off and then again to cut the front of the frame off. Doug and I then lifted the motor out and set it on the floor :-) (Philip is the delinquent. Doug is his step-dad and is our next door neighbor.) > >> Have fun! I think I'll go on the ride with the local HOGs myself. > >> Supposed to be a gorgeous day, particularly for late November! Don't > >> know how many more of those there will be. > > > >Good luck and watch the turns. > > Thanks. Ended up working until 3:30am, so I wasn't fit to get up at 8am > to > go ride with them...drat it. I'll just go ride solo today. No way am I > staying in and working while the sun's up on a day like today! (eating > breakfast now... :^) > Getting ready to repost my chopper website and then post updated pictures. Rita bought a nice sprung seat from e-bay. Tomorrow we're painting the house though. Too warm to chop :-) > -- Mike B. > Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Nov 22 18:12:58 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Fred Hunter" Cc: "dc-cycles list" Subject: Re: Depth and speed perception Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 18:13:03 -0500 Another fav of mine He say the train And tried to duck it Kicked first the gas And then the bucket Burma~Shave Paul in DC 95 VFR - 86 VF500F - users.erols.com/pawilson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Hunter" To: "Paul Wilson" Cc: "dc-cycles list" ; "VFRLIST" Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2003 12:34 AM Subject: Re: Depth and speed perception > > > Then, when you are about to collide, the train's image on your retina > > suddenly expands in all directions - a condition called looming. But at > > that point, you probably can't stop in time, and neither can the train. > > > > By Green's estimate, perception - or misperception - is a factor in more > > than 80% of highway accidents, including those involving trains." > > > > --------------- > > > > He tried > To cross > As fast train neared > Death didn't draft him > He volunteered > --Burma-Shave-- > > FH > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > The VF/VFR mailing list--see http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~john/vfr-list/ > for subscribe/unsubscribe, policy and archive information. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Nov 22 18:58:22 2003 Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 15:58:19 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Chopper Update To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I've reposted my chopper site. If you're interested, head over to http://www.geocities.com/dm_gsxr and follow the links. Later, Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 23 01:15:33 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 01:15:26 EST Subject: Re: Gear 101 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 11/22/2003 11:58:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, richallmc@XXXXXX writes: > In the Post today (read the paper, don't know link) guy over in Laurel that > shot someone breaking into his truck lil while back is getting charged for > murder. And your point is? Lojack is a cop thing, only they have access, only they find the bastards, not me. I said I want them in jail and I do, but if they want to fuck with the cops and the cops get nasty with them #:-) > Well, I for one will not feel bad about it, I have no use for thieves. As for decoys, there have to be bikes out there with blown engines, bent frames, etc. Useless totaled garbage that can be painted and polished to look good. I for one am willing to help. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 23 07:32:59 2003 Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 07:48:51 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Gear 101 On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > As for decoys, there have to be bikes out there with blown engines, bent > frames, etc. Useless totaled garbage that can be painted and polished to look > good. I for one am willing to help. Didn't some guys in the UK do this? They setup a bait-bike and waited for the thieves. When they took the bait, the guys would jump out of a van and grab the thief. They pull him into the van, beat him senseless and then let him go. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 23 13:58:58 2003 Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 13:45:11 -0500 To: Wayne Edelen , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Cold ride, cool helmet At 04:09 PM 11/22/03 -0500, Wayne Edelen wrote: >On Fri, 21 Nov 2003, Mike Bartman wrote: > >> My H-D helmet (made by HJC) has a removable chin guard...closes the gap >> between your chin bar and throat. Probably to increase fogging >> potential... :^) > >I have the same thing in my AC-10. Doesn't do anything. That's good to know. I stuck it in once to see how it fit, but it was such a hassle that I haven't bothered to try it while riding. Sounds like my beard does as good a job in all likelihood. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 23 13:58:58 2003 Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 13:59:19 -0500 To: Wayne Edelen , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Gear 101 At 07:48 AM 11/23/03 -0500, Wayne Edelen wrote: >On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > >> As for decoys, there have to be bikes out there with blown engines, bent >> frames, etc. Useless totaled garbage that can be painted and polished to look >> good. I for one am willing to help. > >Didn't some guys in the UK do this? They setup a bait-bike and waited for >the thieves. When they took the bait, the guys would jump out of a van >and grab the thief. They pull him into the van, beat him senseless and >then let him go. That's not exactly what is being suggested (though it's closer to my original idea :^). They've done this with cars in LA very successfully. They rig one with a remote cutoff and leave it near some suspicious-looking folks. Unlocked, keys in the ignition. In some cases even running. Sometimes the idiots will take the bait, jump in and take off...for about half a block then the engine quits, the doors lock with the windows up, and half a dozen cop cars with flashing lights come out of the woodwork and surround the vehicle. Game over. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 23 20:55:00 2003 Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 21:10:46 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: A good day at the track I hit the track on Friday. Mods on my bike are 16/40 gearing, full exhaust, cut up stock airbox, airfilter and tuning. My bike dyno'd at 166rwhp/102rwtq. My best pass of the day was: 60' 330' 1/8 MPH 1000' 1/4 MPH ----- ----- ----- ------ ----- ----- ------ 1.740 4.443 6.549 117.33 8.369 9.911 146.03 And after working on my launches, I finally got a 1.67 60' on this pass: 60' 330' 1/8 MPH 1000' 1/4 MPH ----- ----- ----- ------ ----- ----- ------ 1.670 4.352 6.469 116.89 8.342 10.251 107.85 Only to hit the limiter and not get the bike into 4th gear :-( Here is a video of my 9.91 pass - http://www.purplecar.org/videos/991.wmv I'm in the far lane. The bike closest to the camera dyno'd within 1hp of my bike, but the rider was around 360lbs suited up. He had 16/43 gearing and a 66" arm on the bike! It was a good day with great weather. It sucks that the season is over. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 23 21:13:23 2003 Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 18:13:18 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: A good day at the track To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX "Damn!" 146 MPH. What's that, 0 to 60 is 5 seconds? What's the 60' and 330' mean? (Presume time to those feet.) How much did you weigh after being geared up (for comparison purposes; 360 lbs may not be all that much if you were 330 :-) I can see why there's a hump on the backs of those things. Congrats on a nice run. (Too bad it was a "Windows Video"; I had to bring up an alternate browser since it kept crashing Opera :-) Carl --- Wayne Edelen wrote: > I hit the track on Friday. Mods on my bike are 16/40 gearing, full > exhaust, cut up stock airbox, airfilter and tuning. My bike dyno'd at > 166rwhp/102rwtq. My best pass of the day was: > > 60' 330' 1/8 MPH 1000' 1/4 MPH > ----- ----- ----- ------ ----- ----- ------ > 1.740 4.443 6.549 117.33 8.369 9.911 146.03 > > And after working on my launches, I finally got a 1.67 60' on this pass: > > 60' 330' 1/8 MPH 1000' 1/4 MPH > ----- ----- ----- ------ ----- ----- ------ > 1.670 4.352 6.469 116.89 8.342 10.251 107.85 > > Only to hit the limiter and not get the bike into 4th gear :-( > > Here is a video of my 9.91 pass - > http://www.purplecar.org/videos/991.wmv > I'm in the far lane. The bike closest to the camera dyno'd within 1hp > of > my bike, but the rider was around 360lbs suited up. He had 16/43 > gearing > and a 66" arm on the bike! > > It was a good day with great weather. It sucks that the season is over. > > -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 23 21:18:31 2003 Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 18:18:28 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Rocket Gear To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I got my rocket pants last week. I wore them in when the Harley crapped out and they were fairly comfortable. I couldn't test the rain capabilities though. I wore them in on Friday on the Suzuki and talk about tight. I had to throw myself to the left and right of the bike to get my foot on the peg. And there was no moving of the feet afterwards. Once I was moving I settled in and got comfortable but I don't think these would work well (for me) for any kind of distance. Just an observation. Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 23 21:32:58 2003 Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 21:48:43 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: A good day at the track On Sun, 23 Nov 2003, Carl Schelin wrote: > "Damn!" 146 MPH. What's that, 0 to 60 is 5 seconds? What's the 60' and > 330' mean? (Presume time to those feet.) How much did you weigh after 0-60 is a lot less than 5 seconds. At the 1/8 mile mark, it's taken me 6.5 seconds to hit 117mph. 60'/330' is the way you tell if you launched well and rolled into the gas hard enough. > being geared up (for comparison purposes; 360 lbs may not be all that much > if you were 330 :-) I'm about 195 in full gear. > I can see why there's a hump on the backs of those things. hehe, actually I'm too short to reach the hump on the launch. When I tuck, I push my butt against it. > Congrats on a nice run. (Too bad it was a "Windows Video"; I had to bring > up an alternate browser since it kept crashing Opera :-) > > Carl Thanks. I didn't capture the vid, it was done by a friend-of-a-friend. :-) -- Wayne From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 23 22:22:29 2003 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: A good day at the track Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 22:22:21 -0500 Carl open the GSXR up!!!!!!!!!!! 0-60 in 5 seconds?! We're not talking cruisers here! >From: Wayne Edelen >To: >Subject: Re: A good day at the track >Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 21:48:43 -0500 (EST) > >On Sun, 23 Nov 2003, Carl Schelin wrote: > > > "Damn!" 146 MPH. What's that, 0 to 60 is 5 seconds? What's the 60' and > > 330' mean? (Presume time to those feet.) How much did you weigh after > >0-60 is a lot less than 5 seconds. At the 1/8 mile mark, it's taken me >6.5 seconds to hit 117mph. _________________________________________________________________ Is there a gadget-lover on your gift list? MSN Shopping has lined up some good bets! http://shopping.msn.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 23 22:23:21 2003 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Rocket Gear Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 22:23:13 -0500 Which Rocket pants? >From: Carl Schelin >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Rocket Gear >Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 18:18:28 -0800 (PST) > >I got my rocket pants last week. I wore them in when the Harley crapped >out and they were fairly comfortable. I couldn't test the rain >capabilities though. I wore them in on Friday on the Suzuki and talk about >tight. I had to throw myself to the left and right of the bike to get my >foot on the peg. And there was no moving of the feet afterwards. Once I >was moving I settled in and got comfortable but I don't think these would >work well (for me) for any kind of distance. > >Just an observation. > >Carl _________________________________________________________________ >From the hottest toys to tips on keeping fit this winter, you)B’ll find a range of helpful holiday info here. http://special.msn.com/network/happyholidays.armx From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 23 22:35:18 2003 Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 22:33:39 -0500 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: A good day at the track At 06:13 PM 11/23/03 -0800, Carl Schelin wrote: >"Damn!" 146 MPH. What's that, 0 to 60 is 5 seconds? I suspect it's a lot faster than that...he was up to 117.33 mph at the 1/8 mile mark, 6.549 seconds "down range". >What's the 60' and 330' mean? (Presume time to those feet.) That's what I figured too. If it's wrong, you aren't alone in the assumption. ;^) >How much did you weigh after >being geared up (for comparison purposes; 360 lbs may not be all that much >if you were 330 :-) I think I'll get on the scale next time I'm all dressed for a ride. The leather is heavy...and I'm no feather myself. Won't matter for track use, but I'm curious now. >Congrats on a nice run. Yes, good going! >(Too bad it was a "Windows Video"; I had to bring >up an alternate browser since it kept crashing Opera :-) I'm trying to download it to view locally. Streaming video of that picture size over my 144K link is totally unviewable. It's over before more than a couple of frames have displayed. Didn't crash IE or the Windows media player, but I can't view it with a click. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Nov 23 23:22:41 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: "rich hall" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: Re: A good day at the track Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 23:22:54 -0500 My hawk gt would do 0 - 60 in 4 seconds (according to the reviews ect). And thats not even close to a crotch rocket. Rob On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 22:22:21 -0500, rich hall wrote > Carl open the GSXR up!!!!!!!!!!! 0-60 in 5 seconds?! We're not > talking cruisers here! > > >From: Wayne Edelen > >To: > >Subject: Re: A good day at the track > >Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 21:48:43 -0500 (EST) > > > >On Sun, 23 Nov 2003, Carl Schelin wrote: > > > > > "Damn!" 146 MPH. What's that, 0 to 60 is 5 seconds? What's the 60' and > > > 330' mean? (Presume time to those feet.) How much did you weigh after > > > >0-60 is a lot less than 5 seconds. At the 1/8 mile mark, it's taken me > >6.5 seconds to hit 117mph. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Is there a gadget-lover on your gift list? MSN Shopping has lined > up some good bets! http://shopping.msn.com -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 24 06:05:13 2003 Subject: Re: A good day at the track From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 24 Nov 2003 06:01:32 -0500 On Sun, 2003-11-23 at 21:48, Wayne Edelen wrote: > On Sun, 23 Nov 2003, Carl Schelin wrote: > > > "Damn!" 146 MPH. What's that, 0 to 60 is 5 seconds? What's the 60' and > > 330' mean? (Presume time to those feet.) How much did you weigh after > > 0-60 is a lot less than 5 seconds. At the 1/8 mile mark, it's taken me > 6.5 seconds to hit 117mph. > And after I sent the message I actually saw the 6.5 to 117. I didn't actually do the maths but I figured with acceleration maybe 4 seconds. You're actually on it. What's the time for 60mph? > 60'/330' is the way you tell if you launched well and rolled into the gas > hard enough. > > > being geared up (for comparison purposes; 360 lbs may not be all that much > > if you were 330 :-) > > I'm about 195 in full gear. So what's the gear weigh? I think I'd be closer to the 360 lbs loaded :-) > > > Congrats on a nice run. (Too bad it was a "Windows Video"; I had to bring > > up an alternate browser since it kept crashing Opera :-) > > > > Carl > > Thanks. I didn't capture the vid, it was done by a friend-of-a-friend. > :-) > Just my normal rants :-) > -- Wayne > > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 24 06:08:39 2003 Subject: Re: A good day at the track From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 24 Nov 2003 06:04:59 -0500 Without a speedometer I can't tell how fast I'm going. I have opened her up to the 10k range back when I was in class down near 28. Isn't the top speed on a 'busa closer to 190MPH? Carl On Sun, 2003-11-23 at 22:22, rich hall wrote: > Carl open the GSXR up!!!!!!!!!!! 0-60 in 5 seconds?! We're not talking > cruisers here! > > >From: Wayne Edelen > >To: > >Subject: Re: A good day at the track > >Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 21:48:43 -0500 (EST) > > > >On Sun, 23 Nov 2003, Carl Schelin wrote: > > > > > "Damn!" 146 MPH. What's that, 0 to 60 is 5 seconds? What's the 60' and > > > 330' mean? (Presume time to those feet.) How much did you weigh after > > > >0-60 is a lot less than 5 seconds. At the 1/8 mile mark, it's taken me > >6.5 seconds to hit 117mph. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Is there a gadget-lover on your gift list? MSN Shopping has lined up some > good bets! http://shopping.msn.com > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 24 06:58:59 2003 Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 03:58:56 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Rocket Gear To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Revolution with the quilted liner removed. The liner is for the cold days. I'm also picking up a pair of Gerbing's pant liners for the icy days. Carl --- rich hall wrote: > Which Rocket pants? > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 24 07:39:47 2003 Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 07:55:26 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: A good day at the track On 24 Nov 2003, Carl Schelin wrote: > And after I sent the message I actually saw the 6.5 to 117. I didn't > actually do the maths but I figured with acceleration maybe 4 seconds. > You're actually on it. What's the time for 60mph? I think 0-60 is somewhere in the high 2 second range. I'm really not sure. Maybe someone with better than my 10th grade math skills can figure it out based on the time/distance? > > I'm about 195 in full gear. > > So what's the gear weigh? I think I'd be closer to the 360 lbs loaded > :-) I'm 180lbs nekkid and I'm guesstimating my gear weighs 15-20lbs. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 24 09:09:00 2003 From: "Julian Halton" To: Subject: Speeding Ticket (s) in Arlington Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 09:09:21 -0500 Hypothetical situation: My client: Shortly after purchasing his first bike he happened to get a speeding ticket in his car on Washington Blvd going 15 above posted speed limit. Thursday of that week he happened to wake up in a foul mood with a guest in his apartment that he wanted to get to the Metro ASAP. Driving down a different section of Washington Blvd- he encountered the same officers and got the same ticket ( in his car). He has a clean record, is presentable and has to deal with both tickets tomorrow at 10:30 AM in Arlington county court. He really need a win on this one so any advice would be appreciated. Hypothetically, he was going to mention that his day job hours changed and he was going through some adjustment...is that smoke too thick and should he bin mentioning this? "Need A Pass" From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Nov 24 09:18:00 2003 Subject: RE: Speeding Ticket (s) in Arlington Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 09:17:59 -0500 From: "Dave Blumgart" To: I'm not a lawyer, nor play one on television,