From dc-cycles-request Mon May 1 20:22:07 1995 Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 20:22:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Harry Greenspun To: Morris Berman Cc: jchi@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: good riding roads up above Rockvile? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII content-length: 80 Check out Ijamsville (?spelling) Road and the whole area around there. Harry From dc-cycles-request Wed May 3 09:19:15 1995 Date: Wed, 3 May 95 09:19:15 EDT X-Sender: sturges@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: sturges@XXXXXX (Rich Sturges) Subject: F2 info needed. Is there anyone out there that has a '94 F2 manual?? I need some info on the cartridge forks. rich From dc-cycles-request Wed May 3 14:50:00 1995 From: "Weinstein, John, Dr, NSS" To: Bill Elwell , chris norloff , CPMJ69A , dan briggs , dc-cycles , ed chu , gse , jae , jimb , jimi , "Midn J.E. Krause" To: Morris Berman , sash , sean , steveb , sturges , "Osidach, Vera Z." Subject: eat 'n ride Date: Wed, 03 May 95 14:50:00 PDT Encoding: 42 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 a few comments to bring you up to date: 1. i apologize for any problems you may have had with the roster of interested riders i distributed last week. it was a *word* formatted document. since it only contained 6 of the group (18 have responded to date) who are interested in occasional weekend rides, you didn't miss much. i will hand out a more complete version when we have our first mtg. 2. if you can't attend, i can get the list to you via fax. just send me your fax number and i will add it to the info on the roster so others can get through to you via the same medium. 3. for any subscribers to dc-cycles who missed the original posting, i am putting together a list of area motorcyclists who are interested in getting together every few weeks this summer for a morning (ie, short) group ride. if interested, send your name, email address, home/work phones, type of bike ridden, best time to ride, style of riding preferred, hobbies, occupation, etc to me and i will incorporate this info on our roster and inform you of the date/place of rides. as i see it, we'll meet for breakfast and then take a 75-125 mile ride. 4. the date of the first ride is june 3rd. this is the only day when there is not competing motorcycle activity. i hope everyone can make it. if not, we'll get together several other times this summer. 5. i'll be out of the country 4-27 may. when i return, i will finalize the route and provide you with a meeting time/place. there's a neat greasy spoon diner in fairfax with out much class but a lot of character. more importantly, it meets my three restaurant criteria (lots of food, tastes good, cheap). upon getting their permission to host our meeting there, i'll include directions in msg between 30 may-1 june. 6. a final thought: if any of the virginia riders are planning to ride in rolling thunder on 28 may and are interested in meeting somewhere around fairfax to ride to the pentagon together, pse leave a msg on my machine (703/273-5737) and i'll get back to you upon my return the evening of 27 may. i'm told by the virginia coordinator that they expect 150,000 motorcyclists, some of whom are shipping their baikes in from australia, new zealand, and iceland. hope you have some great wx in may. see you soon. john From dc-cycles-request Wed May 3 15:35:45 1995 From: Berrigan Remenick Subject: RE:Eat n Ride To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 15:35:45 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 109 John Weinstein: What is your e-mail address, so I can send info about joining the ride. Thanx, Berri From dc-cycles-request Thu May 4 13:10:00 1995 From: "Weinstein, John, Dr, NSS" To: daemon , dc-cycles , motorcycle on-line editor , owner-safety Subject: cb 750 preservation society Date: Thu, 04 May 95 13:10:00 PDT Encoding: 6 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 in a recent magazine article, i read about the subject 750 society and jeff sommer who is affiliated with it. i wrote to the editor asking if he had an address or phone and never received a reply. can anyone help? tnx. john DoD#1645 '81 cb 750k From WeinsteJ@XXXXXX Thu May 4 13:40:00 1995 From: "Weinstein, John, Dr, NSS" To: Bill Elwell , Chia Hui Huang , chris norloff , CPMJ69A , dan briggs , dc-cycles , ed chu , gse , hacker , harry , jae To: jimb , jimi , KRoy , "Midn J.E. Krause" , Morris Berman , gould patrick , "Paul W. Wisneskey" , rob ford , sash , sean To: steveb , sturges , "Osidach, Vera Z." Subject: first ride 3 june Date: Thu, 04 May 95 13:40:00 PDT Encoding: 40 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 1. ok, sports fans. before i start my 4-27 may travel, one more announcement. OUR FIRST RIDE WILL BE 3 JUNE. we will leave from the silver diner (west ox road, fairfax near fair oaks mall/see directions below) at 0800. this is a great place, ate there today and am still upright, and the manager said we're welcome to meet there. he'll reserve a few tables for us. he says that by 0730, there's a wait of 5-10 minutes but i plan to be there by 0700 so ask for me. 2. directions to silver diner: o I-66 west to rt 50 WEST exit o go approx 1 mile on 50W and take second west ox road exit (south) o silver diner is less than .5 miles on your left. o immediately after fair oaks gable apts and on the corner of fair lakes pkwy. 3. in the event of rain or if you need to get a hold of me (be gentle), my home phone is 703/273-5737 (in fairfax). 4. our first ride will be about 120 miles. i'll have maps when we meet on the 3rd. briefly, we'll ride out rt 50 through middleburg and then take a scenic route to harper's ferry where we can stop for an hour for a bite to eat. then, a scenic ride to leesburg. the maryland riders may want to peel off there and cross back into md via white's ferry. we'll ride back from leesburg on rt 7 (which is pretty out that way) and then south on 28 to 50. i am shooting for a return nlt 1300. the pace will be easy this ride while we get to know one and others' riding habits, etc. 5. at the diner, i'll pass out a roster with name, email address, phones (home, work and/or fax), bike(s), preferred riding style, age, profession, hobbies, best time to ride, etc. if you'd like to be on the roster, send your info to me and i'll include it upon my return. 6. so far, it looks like we may have up to 20-25 riders. spread the word and tell your riding buddies that all riders are welcome. i look forward to seeing you on what's shaping up to be a fun ride. regards to all- john weinstej@XXXXXX From jimb@XXXXXX Thu May 4 14:10:15 1995 X-Sender: jimb@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 04 May 1995 14:10:15 -0400 To: "Weinstein, John, Dr, NSS" , Bill Elwell , Chia Hui Huang , chris norloff , CPMJ69A , dan briggs , dc-cycles , ed chu , gse , hacker , harry , jae From: jimb@XXXXXX (Jim Brooking) Subject: Re: first ride 3 june >the maryland riders may want to peel off there and cross back into md via >white's ferry. FYI: If anyone hasn't done this yet, it's $1.25 for Motorsickles, and kind of fun. Good first ride itinerary, John. It will be fun terrorizing Harpers Ferry. 8^) Parking's usually a pain, though. Even on bikes. -- jimb@XXXXXX | http://www.basetech.com/jimb | jimb@XXXXXX ----------------------+--------------------------------+------------------ From dc-cycles-request Thu May 4 13:56:00 1995 From: Robert_Meyer@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 4 May 95 13:56:00 EST To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: eat 'n ride I'm interested, too. Please post your E-Mail address again so that I can send you the relevant info. Thanks. Bob Meyer >3. for any subscribers to dc-cycles who missed the original posting, i am >putting together a list of area motorcyclists who are interested in >getting together every few weeks this summer for a morning (ie, short) >group ride. >if interested, send your name, email address, home/work phones, type of >bike ridden, best time to ride, style of riding preferred, hobbies, >occupation, etc to me and i will incorporate this info on our roster and >inform you of the date/place of rides. as i see it, we'll meet for >breakfast and then take a 75-125 mile ride. john From dc-cycles-request Fri May 5 08:12:59 1995 From: jchi@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 5 May 95 08:12:59 EDT To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Gaerne GW-1 Boots for SALE (size 10) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I have an almost brand new pair that I bought last Christmas and wore only 30 min. I just didn't fit/like it. I paid $140.00 for it. I'll be glad to part with it for $100.00 Anyone interested? I have the orginal box for it, too. Jae jchi@XXXXXX 703-284-4614 From dc-cycles-request Fri May 5 09:35:25 1995 From: jchi@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 5 May 95 09:35:25 EDT To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Gaerne GW-1 Boots for SALE (size 10) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >> have an almost brand new pair that I bought last Christmas and wore only 30 min. I just didn't fit/like it. I paid $140.00 for it. I'll be glad to part with it for $100.00 Anyone interested? I have the orginal box for it, too. << I forgot it is a white base with blue band on top. Jae jchi@XXXXXX 703-284-4614 From dc-cycles-request Fri May 5 10:22:02 1995 Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 10:22:02 -0400 From: kcash@XXXXXX (Kelly.Cash) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: National Cycle Fly Screen for sale I have a National Cycle fly screen for sale. It fits a 7" headlight. It's a very small windshield I bought for my Virago 1100. I've since bought a Venture Royale, so when I want to ride with a windshield I take the big bike. The flyscreen is still in its packing, never used, never scratched, all mounting stuff still enclosed. Paid around $35-40 for it, will sell for reasonable offer. Mr. Kelly Cash 703-538-5483 (home) 703-820-5580 (work) From dc-cycles-request Sat May 6 00:33:07 1995 From: jimi@XXXXXX Date: Sat, 6 May 1995 00:33:07 -0400 (EDT) To: DC Cycles Subject: Fun directions to Summit Point? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I was wondering if anyone knew a 'fun' way to get to the Point from Northern Virginia. By fun, I mean with some twisties along the way, no super-slab if possible. -jimi From dc-cycles-request Sun May 7 16:38:27 1995 Date: Sun, 7 May 1995 16:38:27 -0400 From: tale@XXXXXX (David C Lawrence) To: jimi@XXXXXX Cc: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Fun directions to Summit Point? In-Reply-To: jimi@XXXXXX writes: > I was wondering if anyone knew a 'fun' way to get to the Point from > Northern Virginia. By fun, I mean with some twisties along the way, no > super-slab if possible. Depending on where you are in No Va, it's pretty difficult to get away from the horrid traffic congestion as quickly as possible without taking some four lanes. You've got to at least make it to western Fairfax county for these directions. Method 1: Take VA 7 W to Leesburg (get on the Leesburg bypass around town or stay on the business route through the middle if you want fuel or food or something). This is four lane all the way up to your exit at Paeonia Springs, just a couple of miles west of Leesburg, where you take VA 9 W. A pleasant drive lined by farms, it eventually gets twisty as it crosses the mountains. It takes you straight to Charles Town where you pick up Summit Point Road, a road that also has high speed curve-taking temptations. Be careful of the quick hills though, it is not at all hard to get airborne if you're speeding. Method 2: Take VA 28 to maybe a mile or so north of Dulles. Take VA 606 W about five miles or so to a turn on your right that goes to Arcola. (If you hit US 50, you've gone too far and should go back; from US 50 it will be the first road on your left. From VA 28 I think there is only one other possible right turn before this road.) At Arcola, a mile from the turn, bear right up VA 621 N to Leesburg. Take the VA 7 Bypass to VA 9 W and proceed as in Method 1. Both 606 and 621 are lightly travelled, good pavement roads with high speed sweepers. Method 3: Start with VA 606 W as in Method 2 and jump on US 50 W (you can do this also by taking the Arcola turn off and bearing _left_ at the fork, for just a little more time on the rural roads and off the four lane). US 50 soon turns into two lane rolling up and down over hills. Just after the town of Aldie it takes a bend to the left and VA 734 heads NW to Philomont. It is very rural with questionable pavement in places, but quite passable on a bike. Take a right on VA 690 N to go through Purcellville, and then make a left onto VA 9 W to Charlestown as in the other routes. This is the longest of the rides, but maximizes off-the-main-path riding. As an alternative here, take VA 734 all the way to VA 7 W (multilane) toward Winchester and then take VA 612 N to US 340 N to Charlestown. I think there is a backroads way to the track off of 612, but I'm not familiar with it. Method 4: Start with Method 3 through the US 50 plan, but forget all about Summit Point and stay on US 50 W all the way to Colorado. With two 700 mile days, you could reach it in just a weekend of travel. Enjoy the Rockies. Hope these help. I'd be interested to know if you tried any of the suggestions, and what you thought. From dc-cycles-request Mon May 8 07:51:51 1995 Subject: Re: Fun directions to Summit Point? From: crose@XXXXXX (Leslie Caron Rose) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX (DC Cycles) Date: Mon, 8 May 95 07:51:51 -0400 >jimi@XXXXXX writes: >Method 2: > >Take VA 28 to maybe a mile or so north of Dulles. Take VA 606 W about >five miles or so to a turn on your right that goes to Arcola. I believe this road is named Evergreen Mills, or something like that. (If you >hit US 50, you've gone too far and should go back; from US 50 it will >be the first road on your left. From VA 28 I think there is only one >other possible right turn before this road.) And I believe that the 'one other' right turn (Arcola Rd??) quickly turns into a nasty gravel road, so be careful. Evergreen Mills (the correct turn) is a good road, though At Arcola, a mile from >the turn, bear right up VA 621 N to Leesburg. Take the VA 7 Bypass to >VA 9 W and proceed as in Method 1. Both 606 and 621 are lightly >travelled, good pavement roads with high speed sweepers. Caron From dc-cycles-request Mon May 8 08:41:09 1995 Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 08:41:09 -0400 From: kcash@XXXXXX (Kelly.Cash) To: jimi@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Fun directions to Summit Point? From: jimi@XXXXXX Date: Sat, 6 May 1995 00:33:07 -0400 (EDT) > I was wondering if anyone knew a 'fun' way to get to the Point from > Northern Virginia. By fun, I mean with some twisties along the way, no > super-slab if possible. Got a PC? Get a copy of the "Auto-Map" software. It's great. You say where you want to start and end, specify "preferences", and it finds a route for you. By preferences, you rate various options on a sliding scale, 0=hate, 10=love. You "rate" freeways, ferries, divided highways, etc. It'll spit out different routes based upon fastest route, shortest route, most preferable route, etc. You can print a map of the route and a typed list of directions. Example Follow Rt. 28 2 miles 12:00 Turn left onto Rt 29 12:05 From dc-cycles-request Mon May 8 12:43:31 1995 Date: Mon, 8 May 95 12:43:31 EDT X-Sender: sturges@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: sturges@XXXXXX (Rich Sturges) Subject: Busy weekend To anyone who stopped by the Team Charm pits but received little chat from me, please accept my apologies. I had a very frustrating weekend trying to get the new motor going. Hope everyone got to go riding at least some!! rich From dc-cycles-request Mon May 8 13:09:18 1995 From: Robert M Darden X-Organization: Trusted Information Systems, Inc. X-Phone: +1 301 854 6889, +1 410 442 1673, FAX: +1 301 854 5363 Cc: pcoleman@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Kawasaki mechanic needed In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 08 May 95 12:43:31 -0400. <9505081643.AA06780@XXXXXX> Date: Mon, 08 May 95 13:09:18 -0400 Sender: darden@XXXXXX Hi Folks, My buddy Perry Coleman, pcoleman@XXXXXX, is in dire need of a kawasaki mechanic. He has installed a custom ignition on his KZ1000 and it quit. He lives in Gaithersburg, the bike is at my house in southern Anne Arundel county, or we'll deliver. A message a week or so ago had someone mentioning that they did work on the side (they were during the daytime a Honda?? mechanic) but I can't find that message now (of course). pardon the interrupt....but can anyone help. bob '70 moto guzzi 'xx JZR (Morgan Replica) trike with CX650 power From dc-cycles-request Mon May 8 16:07:46 1995 Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 16:07:46 -0400 From: kcash@XXXXXX (Kelly.Cash) To: darden@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Kawasaki mechanic needed > Subject: Kawasaki mechanic needed > > Hi Folks, > My buddy Perry Coleman, pcoleman@XXXXXX, is in dire > need of a kawasaki mechanic. He has installed a custom ignition > on his KZ1000 and it quit. He lives in Gaithersburg, the bike > is at my house in southern Anne Arundel county, or we'll deliver. Contact Crossroads Cycle at 703-820-3711. They're located at 5715 Leesburg Pike, Falls Church, VA. They're close to Columbia Pike on Rt. 7. I've only dealt with them once, but they seemed quite honest and straightforward. They specialize in Kawasakis, but service everything. They even do race preparation. -Kelly Cash From dc-cycles-request Tue May 9 12:52:38 1995 Date: Tue, 9 May 95 12:52:38 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: sash@XXXXXX (Michael A. Dow) Subject: MSF Course Number Does anyone know the number for the MSF course in NoVA? A buddy of mine is getting ready to start riding, so I want to make sure he takes the course first. Thanks in advance, -Sash ___________________________________________________________________ Michael A. Dow Virtual X__/ AMA# 403971 Roadkill --> /\ /\ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = '94 Honda VF750C Magna ("Thanks, but it's not a Harley") "I don't wanna pickle /I just wanna ride on my motorsickle" -Arlo ___________________________________________________________________ From dc-cycles-request Tue May 9 14:28:14 1995 Date: Tue, 9 May 1995 14:28:14 -0400 From: kcash@XXXXXX (Kelly.Cash) To: sash@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: MSF Course Number > Does anyone know the number for the MSF course in NoVA? A buddy of mine is > getting ready to start riding, so I want to make sure he takes the course > first. Good luck getting him in- The beginner MSF classes fill up WAY in advance. The trick is to call them once or twice a day to see if there have been any cancellations. The Experienced Rider Course (ERC) is also quite good for those who have been riding awhile. You ride your OWN bike for this course. I know people tho take it yearly just to keep sharp. I take it every two or three years. Call information for the Loudon Campus of NoVA. They'll be able to register him in a class. Or you can call MSF directly at 1-800-447-4700 Keep the shiny side up, -Kelly Cash From dc-cycles-request Tue May 9 17:06:17 1995 Date: Tue, 9 May 1995 17:06:17 -0400 From: tale@XXXXXX (David C Lawrence) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: MSF Course Number In-Reply-To: <9505091828.AA28073@hanfs01.ha.osd.mil> Kelly.Cash writes: > Call information for the Loudon Campus of NoVA. They'll be able to register > him in a class. Or you can call MSF directly at 1-800-447-4700 NoVA Continuing Ed is 703 450 2551. I don't have information about the MSF:RSS (the beginners course) at hand; my girlfriend is taking the course in June, but she registered for it two months ago. I've heard that if you wait this long to register, it is booked through the year. I think it's basically a weekend class, starting with a couple of hours of classroom time on Friday night, and then two full days of classroom and range time. It's with all of their bikes and helmets. I think Diane told me it was 80 or 85$. Thanks to the encouragement of Kelly's message, I figured that after 7 years and 140,000 miles of riding it was time for me to take a course; "practise what you preach" and all that. I just signed up for the MSF:ERC, the advanced class. I'm going June 4; there is also June 11 and Sept 10 available. The cost is 55$, and it is 8am to 5pm. It's with all of your own equipment (bring insurance and registration for the bike), and you have to bring your own bag lunch. You need to give five days notice to change the date. It would be cool if any other dc-cycles folks who have been likewise procrastinating on taking a class would also like to take the June 4 one. We can all have a graduation dinner afterwards. :-) Dave PS: they run the classes at NoVa's Loudon campus, on VA 7 just E of VA 28. From dc-cycles-request Tue May 9 19:11:01 1995 Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v112.1) From: Thomas Piergallini Date: Tue, 9 May 95 19:11:01 -0400 To: DC CYCLES Subject: Re: MSF Course Number I just renewed my insurance a month ago and they dropped the MSF rider's course discount (Colonial of CA). They had a 3-yr grace period from the taking of the course and then you had to retake it to get the discount. You save $50 a year for 3 years for a savings of $150. Minus the cost of the course, you are saving $100. Not worth my time to save the cash. When I was in the USAF they gave me two days off and paid for the course. That was very much worth the time. :-) And do not anyone scold me about the benefits of the course, you are preaching to the choir. pierre From dc-cycles-request Tue May 9 19:32:26 1995 Date: Tue, 9 May 1995 19:32:26 -0400 From: tale@XXXXXX (David C Lawrence) To: DC CYCLES Subject: Re: MSF Course Number In-Reply-To: <9505092311.AA00264@overlord.nova.org> Thomas Piergallini writes: > I just renewed my insurance a month ago and they dropped the MSF rider's > course discount (Colonial of CA). They had a 3-yr grace period from the > taking of the course and then you had to retake it to get the discount. You > save $50 a year for 3 years for a savings of $150. Minus the cost of the > course, you are saving $100. Not worth my time to save the cash. Sean Graham has pointed out to me that new Honda buyers get up to 75$ of course fees reimbursed if they take a course within the year of purchase. I'd forgotten I was eligible for that, so this makes the course free. My insurer is Colonial too, so I'll get the discount, which I didn't know about until you mentioned it. This day started out really weird, but it's just getting better and better. (What was weird? First, in Clarendon at an admittedly peculiar intersection, some idjit ran a stop sign and very nearly caused on accident with me. That raised the adrenalin level a cc or two. Getting onto I-66 from US 29 near Sprout Run, the left turning idjit ahead of me nearly took out an oncoming bicyclist because of his Volvoic brain cloud. In addition to the experience I just had, I empathized with the bicyclist, because I do the unpowered two wheel thing also. So then I'm up on I-66 W, passing under the basketball courts, when I switch lanes to pass. Little red and blue lights start flashing from the back shelf of an otherwise unmarked brown sedan ahead of me. Sigh, I'm busted. I slowed down to between 60-65. But in a Serlingesque moment, the lights went off, as if just to say, "It would be a really bad idea to blow by me." I slowly passed Officer Friendly at my slightly over 60 mph pace, switched back into the right lane, and kept right on going. Never saw him again, though a marked car has someone stopped on the beltway between I-66 and US 50. It was one of the weirder commutes I've had in a while.) From dc-cycles-request Wed May 10 08:54:00 1995 Date: Wednesday, 10 May 1995 08:54 ET To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: carl.burkholder@XXXXXX Subject: Re: MSF Course Number In-Reply-To: The letter of Tuesday, 9 May 1995 17:49 ET Here in Maryland (Glen Burnie) the classes do fill up but not for the entire season, you just have to wait about a month. My wife is taking the beginner course in June. It costs about $65.00 and takes 2 days, 1/2 day classroom and 1.5 days on the bikes. I took the beginner course myself as a refreasher course. I hadn't riden in about 10 years (sacralidge). It was great, I had ridden most of my life before I sold my bike to buy a sports car (I was tired of getting run off of the road). In the MSF course I learned a lot. I ride alot safer than I used to when I was younger (although not much slower). The savings on the insurance has more than paid for the course. I have some questions on the MSF:ERC, has anyone on the board gone through this course already? Would I be able to use my full dresser Harley or would I have to use my sportster? One last question... Are there going to be any rides that I don't have to travel 2 hours before the ride starts and after the ride ends? Unfortunatly my work keeps me on a 2 hour leash most of the time. :( Carl Burkholder Keep the rubber side down and watch those 91 XLH shiney spots. 94 FLHTCU From dc-cycles-request Wed May 10 10:19:44 1995 Date: Wed, 10 May 1995 10:19:44 -0400 From: kcash@XXXXXX (Kelly.Cash) To: carl.burkholder@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: MSF Course Number > I have some questions on the MSF:ERC, has anyone on the board gone through > this course already? Would I be able to use my full dresser Harley or would I > have to use my sportster? You can ride any bike you like. In fact, it's probably best if you ride the bike you ride most often. I rode my Virago last time, I'll ride my Venture Royale this time. (I'm going to try to make the NoVA June 4th ERC) Just don't show up on a moped! :-) I have heard of people taking Honda Helixes to the courses though. > One last question... Are there going to be any rides that I don't have to > travel 2 hours before the ride starts and after the ride ends? Unfortunatly my > work keeps me on a 2 hour leash most of the time. :( I'm not sure what there is close to your area, but there are numerous clubs around. Try getting a copy of the free newsletter "Motorcycle Times" from your local dealer. It lists a lot of local rides, some in MD, DC, VA. Also look in the AMA magazine. It has not only rides all over the country, but listings of a lot of bike clubs and chapters. Ask about local clubs at your local dealer as well. Often times they know about a lot of local chapters, and give discounts to their members. One other thing- Don't be intimidated about contacting a particular club just because you don't have the type of bike they use most. For example, I belog to the Virago Owners Club, and we have a number of members who don't have Viragos. Many clubs are open to all, and you don't necessarily have to be a member of some clubs to ride along with them. Good riding, -Kelly Cash From dc-cycles-request Wed May 10 07:25:10 1995 From: "Bruce B. Dimon, VRC, Bayview, Idaho" Organization: CDNSWC Acoustic Research Detachment To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 10 May 1995 07:25:10 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: MSF Course Number Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail/Windows (v1.22) > (What was weird? First, in Clarendon at an admittedly peculiar > intersection, some idjit ran a stop sign and very nearly caused on > accident with me. That raised the adrenalin level a cc or two. > Getting onto I-66 from US 29 near Sprout Run, the left turning idjit > ahead of me nearly took out an oncoming bicyclist because of his > Volvoic brain cloud. I had to smile when I read this. After motorcycle commuting around DC for ten years, I finally moved to Idaho. Now my commute covers a mile a minute. Best of all, nobody west of the Shenandoah Valley has tried to run me off the road. The only downside is that I have to return to Merry-Land in 3 to 5 years. Ride Safe. Greetings from the land of lakes and lattes! Wing for go, not for show! Bruce Dimon, dimon@XXXXXX My opinions are my own (everybody else thinks I am full of it). From dc-cycles-request Wed May 10 10:30:25 1995 Date: Wed, 10 May 1995 10:30:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Donald DiPaula To: carl.burkholder@XXXXXX cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: MSF Course Number In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 10 May 1995 carl.burkholder@XXXXXX wrote: > > I have some questions on the MSF:ERC, has anyone on the board gone through > this course already? Would I be able to use my full dresser Harley or would I > have to use my sportster? > when i took the erc, most of the class was from two groups, filled out with individuals like myself unassociated with any group. they were from washington (i think) harley-davidson, and a local gold wing riders association. yes, there were about 4 gold wings that took the same course as every other bike. size should not be a problem. (i was surprised at how much everyone there respected my bike at the time, an '88 hawk.) > > Carl Burkholder Keep the rubber side down and watch those > 91 XLH shiney spots. > 94 FLHTCU > -D- From dc-cycles-request Wed May 10 10:43:05 1995 Date: Wed, 10 May 1995 10:43:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Janet Gunn Subject: Re: Kawasaki mechanic needed To: Robert M Darden cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, pcoleman@XXXXXX In-Reply-To: <9505081709.AA26194@tis.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 8 May 1995, Robert M Darden wrote: > Hi Folks, > My buddy Perry Coleman, pcoleman@XXXXXX, is in dire > need of a kawasaki mechanic. He has installed a custom ignition > on his KZ1000 and it quit. He lives in Gaithersburg, the bike > is at my house in southern Anne Arundel county, or we'll deliver. Try Bill Bloom, at Crossroad Cycles, Baileys Crossroads. Janet Gunn WERA, CCS, AHRMA (and ex-AAMRR) #671 MARRC#18 From dc-cycles-request Wed May 10 13:34:34 1995 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 10 May 1995 13:34:34 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: sash@XXXXXX (Michael A. Dow) Subject: Rolling Thunder May 28 Anyone planning on attending? I would be interested in riding down with some folks. Assembly is at 0800 in the Pentagon North Lot. -Sash Michael "Sash" Dow Laboratory of Neuropsychology National Institute of Mental Health 49 Convent Dr MSC 4115 Building 49/Room 1B80 Bethesda, MD 20892-4115 Phone: (301) 496-5625 x259 Fax: (301) 402-0046 Email: sash@XXXXXX sash@XXXXXX sash@XXXXXX ___________________________________ Opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the United States Government or its agencies. From dc-cycles-request Wed May 10 15:22:51 1995 Subject: Re: Kawasaki mechanic needed To: darden@XXXXXX (Robert M Darden) Date: Wed, 10 May 95 15:22:51 EDT Cc: pcoleman@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX In-Reply-To: <9505081709.AA26194@tis.com>; from "Robert M Darden" at May 8, 95 1:09 pm From: kosmas@XXXXXX (Kosmas) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Robert M Darden > > Hi Folks, > My buddy Perry Coleman, pcoleman@XXXXXX, is in dire > need of a kawasaki mechanic. He has installed a custom ignition > on his KZ1000 and it quit. He lives in Gaithersburg, the bike > is at my house in southern Anne Arundel county, or we'll deliver. Cycle Connection has a mechanic that worked for a big Kawa/Yama dealer in Baltimore from the late sixties to the early eighties. He is as good as they get, and their prices are very reasonable. They also do pick-ups I believe for $40. The prices on parts are usually 20% below dealer's retail, but unless you go there to order they don't waste time looking up parts and prices on the phone. Their number is 410-242-2332 and they are located in route 1 and I-195 (BWI exit off of 95), a mile from where AArundel , Baltimore and Howard counties meet. > pardon the interrupt....but can anyone help. > bob > '70 moto guzzi > 'xx JZR (Morgan Replica) trike with CX650 power > Kosmas From dc-cycles-request Thu May 11 01:23:42 1995 Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 01:23:42 -0400 From: Dark Hacker To: carl.burkholder@XXXXXX, donald@XXXXXX Subject: Re: MSF Course Number Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Donald DiPaula Subject: Re: MSF Course Number On Wed, 10 May 1995 carl.burkholder@XXXXXX wrote: > I have some questions on the MSF:ERC, has anyone on the board > gone through this course already? Would I be able to use my full > dresser Harley or would I have to use my sportster? When I took the MSF novice course, the local harley club was doing the advanced course in the parking lot right next to us. Drooooooool.... I've never seen so many harleys decked out in all their chrome and enameled splendor. It was a sight. And the SOUND when they put those gorgeous bikes through their paces! - hacker From dc-cycles-request Thu May 11 09:24:00 1995 From: "Begeman, Leon" To: DC Cycles List Subject: CX650 Date: Thu, 11 May 95 09:24:00 edt Encoding: 14 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 >Robert M Darden >> bob >> '70 moto guzzi ----->> 'xx JZR (Morgan Replica) trike with CX650 power I'd love to get a chance to look at your trike. My name is Leon Begeman, I'm new to this list, but have been riding for a while. I ride a CX650 with 107K miles and have a GL650 wth 67K, I switch between them when something needs to be done to the other one. Leon. From dc-cycles-request Thu May 11 09:45:00 1995 From: GMN.APA@XXXXXX (Norwicke, Glenn) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX (-) Subject: Rain gear Date: Thu, 11 May 95 09:45 I am taking a trip in about month with my first destination being Chicago then on to southern Illinois (Carbondale) then to Atlanta then to Charlotte and finally back to DC. At any rate I need to purchase a rain suit and was wondering if anyone has any recommendations. I know Dry Rider makes rain suits but I haven't heard anything good or bad about them. Any help would be appreciated. -Glenn "Snap" Norwicke 93 CBR600F2 From dc-cycles-request Thu May 11 10:55:20 1995 Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 10:55:20 -0400 From: kcash@XXXXXX (Kelly.Cash) To: GMN.APA@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Rain gear > Subject: Rain gear > Date: Thu, 11 May 95 09:45 > I am taking a trip in about month with my first destination being Chicago > then on to southern Illinois (Carbondale) then to Atlanta then to > Charlotte and finally back to DC. At any rate I need to purchase a rain > suit and was wondering if anyone has any recommendations. I know Dry > Rider makes rain suits but I haven't heard anything good or bad about > them. Any help would be appreciated. > > -Glenn "Snap" Norwicke > 93 CBR600F2 Yes. I have the Motoport rain suit. It cost me $100 for pants and jacket. I made sure to try them on WHILE WEARING MY LEATHERS. This is for two reasons: you want to make sure they're the right size, and you want to know you're able to pull them on over leathers without help. See, some rainsuits have this mesh-like material inside. It's nice, it breathes, but it catches and snags when pulled over leathers with zippers. Some rainsuits have a rubberized liner which makes it VERY hard to pull over leather by yourself. There are some cheap ones out there, like the Yamaha yellow rainsuit. It's so flimsy that the wind will tear them apart in one day. Not worth it. The Motoport suiit should last forever with proper care, and it has many nice features such as weather resistant pockets, velcro storm flap over the front zipper, waist belt to keep it from ballooning while riding, double cuffs at the wrist to go inside and over the glove, high collar. It is red, white, and black. Not too wild looking, but bright enough to be seen. Also, its color stripes go diagonally, rather than horizontally. People see horizontals and verticals less than diagonals. I also recommend getting Totes boot covers (about $15?) and glove covers. ($10?) I've found it to be rather hot and sticky while riding with both leathers AND rainsuit, but I'm a bit paranoid. I figure I'm more likely to go down in the rain than I am on dry pavement, what with oil and antifreeze lifting from the asphalt in the rain. Keep the shiny side up, -Kelly From dc-cycles-request Thu May 11 13:30:35 1995 Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 13:30:35 -0400 From: tale@XXXXXX (David C Lawrence) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Rain gear In-Reply-To: <9505111455.AA05277@hanfs01.ha.osd.mil> Kelly.Cash writes: > Yes. I have the Motoport rain suit. It cost me $100 for pants and jacket. I have a Fieldsheer, which I think cost me about 80$ a year and a half ago. My girlfriend just bought the same kind. I forget the model. It is separate pants and jacket, because I find most one pieces to be very difficult to get into. The pants are black with suspenders, and the three quarter length jacket is red, white and black (horziontal stripes) with three pockets, elastic waist, corduroy collar and mesh lining. My only complaint about the suit is really about my cold weather gloves: they dyed the ends of sleeves a dark purple colour. My only wish for it is for something like the double cuffs that Kelly described. For glove covers I recommend the Motoport ones, which are like very heavy duty dish gloves. The mitten type suck. I also recommend the Motoport boot covers with the walkable foresole, because rubber Totes are a PITA to put on. (If you do use Totes, I've heard that coating the inside with baby powder helps a lot.) Kelly is absolutely right that you should try on a suit with your normal riding gear. From dc-cycles-request Fri May 12 16:28:00 1995 From: "Begeman, Leon" To: DC Cycles List Subject: Re: RainSuits Date: Fri, 12 May 95 16:28:00 edt Encoding: 23 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 I have a FeldSheer one piece suit. It cost about $80 a couple of years ago. I don't recommend it. There must be something out there that is better. + + + + It keeps me dry. It fits over the top of my Aerostich. - - - - The slide fasters snag on the nylon about half the time I use them, the one on the storage pocket is now completely stuck. The workmanship was poor - one pocket was sewn shut, the tabs on the end of the sleeves close to the right (one is backwards). It has nylon mesh lining which catches on my other clothes. After the lining ripped, it is now even more difficult to put on. To put Totes on, use a plastic grocery bag. Put the bag on first then slide the Totes boot over it. It goes on easy. Leon - No contact, no problem - close doesn't count. '83 CX650, '83 GL650 From dc-cycles-request Mon May 15 13:09:00 1995 Date: Mon, 15 May 95 13:09:00 EDT X-Sender: sturges@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: sturges@XXXXXX (Rich Sturges) Subject: Used parts for sale Cc: race@XXXXXX, ex500@XXXXXX, balt-cycles@XXXXXX Recently I was in Cycle Sport, Herndon (in Northern Virginia) and while they don't really advertise the fact, they have a large collection of used bike parts. Lots of stuff for late model sport bikes. If you are in the market call 703-471-6990 and ask for the service manager, Dean Middleton. His brain serves as their parts database. Their fax #is 471-1871 rich From dc-cycles-request Mon May 15 14:45:44 1995 Date: Mon, 15 May 1995 14:45:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Ken Bass To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Hello MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I'm new to riding and would like to learn of any mailing lists for the Maryland area (or DC/VA). Is this message going to a mailing list? How do I subscribe? ---Ken From dc-cycles-request Mon May 15 20:20:35 1995 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 14 May 1995 20:10:58 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: hacker@XXXXXX (Dark Hacker) Subject: Leathers Any recomendations for places in the DC area that I can buy leather jackets? I really like the first Gear stuff but it's EXPEN$IVE! I'd rather pay $200 tops for a hard leather jacket than $400+ for the Hiene Gerhike stuff. Don't get me wrong... these are great jackets but I could settle for a lesser jacket with a lesser price tag. And the place I buy the jacket doesn't have to be a biker place. I've hit all of them and they all sell First Gear. - Hacker "Life itself is... COMPUTATION!" email: hacker@XXXXXX www: (under construction) Dark Hacker @ Black Silicon, Fortress Of Computation From dc-cycles-request Mon May 15 22:12:42 1995 Date: Mon, 15 May 1995 21:40:01 -0400 X-Sender: harris@XXXXXX Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: harris@XXXXXX (Stephen Harris) Subject: Personal for Kirk Roy X-Mailer: Sorry to all for the broad band attack...:-) Kirk Roy would you E-mail me, I lost your address (I got your tires!) Stephen From dc-cycles-request Tue May 16 08:27:53 1995 Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 08:27:45 -0400 From: kcash@XXXXXX (Kelly.Cash) To: hacker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Leathers > From: hacker@XXXXXX (Dark Hacker) > Subject: Leathers > Any recomendations for places in the DC area that I can buy leather jackets? > I really like the first Gear stuff but it's EXPEN$IVE! I'd rather pay $200 > tops for a hard leather jacket than $400+ for the Hiene Gerhike stuff. Don't > get me wrong... these are great jackets but I could settle for a lesser jacket > with a lesser price tag. Can you REALLY settle for less? I won't get on my bikes without wearing my Hein Gericke Stealth Pilot jacket. I paid $500 for it at my bike shop, but have seen it for $400 at bike shows/rallies. It has too many good features. It's much better leather than most jackets, the stitching is top-notch. With the armor in the forearms/elbows, shoulders, and extra padding along the spine it's some of the best protection you can buy. The front and back vents keep you cool on the hottest days (well, not if you're sitting in traffic or at a light). The list of features goes on and on. But what's the real reason we wear leathers? For style? Naaah. For PROTECTION. Last november some moron turned left in front of me from two lanes to my right. I leaned hard left to avoid him. I didn't hit him, but I went down. Not only was the Stealth jacket hardly scratched, but more importantly *I* was in fine shape. I was a little stiff for a few days, but none the worse for wear. The armor in the sleeve and shoulder worked perfectly. Just the right amount of padding, the right amount of rigidity. You can get a lot of Hein Gericke stuff mail order, but not the Stealth. Yeah, the stuff's expensive. But you get what you pay for, and what's your life worth, anyway? *grin* I'd feel pretty foolish telling St. Peter at the pearly gates: "Well, at least I saved a couple hundred bucks. . ." Keep the shiny side up, -Kelly Cash From dc-cycles-request Tue May 16 11:13:33 1995 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Leathers In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 16 May 95 08:27:45 -0400. <9505161227.AA06031@XXXXXX> Date: Tue, 16 May 95 10:49:02 -0400 From: Phil Kester Kelly.Cash writes: ... snip > But what's the real reason we wear leathers? For style? Naaah. > For PROTECTION. snip ... I couldn't agree more. Below is an excellent article on leathers posted some time ago to rec.moto. Phil Kester ===================== >From: mfitzpatrick@XXXXXX (Martin Fitzpatrick) [1] LEATHERS - The Good, The Bad and The Ugly. Summary: Investigation of quality of leathers. Keywords: leathers one-piece two-piece protective clothing How do you tell good leathers from bad ? This is a question that has been bothering me a lot of late, and I've been taking a look into the whole thing. I've taken a bit of time and trouble to dig up the information, and I thought someone out there might benefit from it; especially since one thing has become clear to me - you do not always get what you pay for. The waters are very muddied, claims and counter claims abound, and it's all pretty difficult to make sense of. I've spent time reading magazine articles, reading sales brochures, talking to experts and talking to assholes. The result is an IMPRESSION of what to look for in good leathers - feel free with your postings. I'll be glad to get *mail* about anything you want to discuss, but please only *post* stuff that you think will contribute to the thread. Thanks. Also, I see a lot of "I_know_better_than_you / No_you_don't / Yes_I_do" crap out there. In posting this stuff I'm not trying to prove that I'm the god of leathers or some shit. I admit openly that I know diddly-squat about the subject - I'm only posting this because if some poor sucker out there knows less about it that me (and I fell into that category a few weeks ago), then they might appreciate this information (I know I would have). Don't flame me for being a smartass - I'll just get angry and you wouldn't like me when I'm angry. Also, please don't turn this into a discussion about whether leathers are a good thing/necessity/waste of time - I have plenty of views on that subject myself, but this is neither the time nor the place. Okay, so I walk into a shop and they've got rows and rows of leathers. Where do I start ? Well, there are a lot that you can just walk right by, but you probably knew that already. Anything that looks more like a bondage jacket than a motorcycle jacket probably is what it looks like. Little straps on the shoulders, tassels (pleeeease !), studs (you-gotta-be-fuckin-kidding), distressed leather (you would be too), zip-off sleeves (no, really I have seen it, honest), ultra-soft leather, baggy jackets - even if you like these things, it should be obvious that these were made not to save your skin but to make a fashion statement. Fashion statements loose some of their impact when delivered from a hospital bed. If you really are worried about fashion and "pulling the chics" and so on, think on this - would *you* French-kiss someone with a skin-graft ? Right, we've got past the Ugly, only the Good and the Bad left. How do we tell them apart ? Have you ever seen a suit of racing leathers ? Well, here's the bad news - they're boring (apart from the colour schemes). None of the Mad Max shoulder pads or any of that shit - just plain old leather, and lots of it. They have almost no straps anywhere, no pockets, very few fastenings. They also have as few seams as possible, by being constructed of only a few, large, pieces of leather. This reduces the number of seams - seams being the weak points of a suit. Racing leathers are also skin tight. No, I'm not suggesting that we all run out and buy one piece racing suits. My point is that if the leathers you're looking at look not at all like race leathers, then this probably tells you something about their quality. Not definitely, but probably. Anything *extra* is probably making things worse - eg. straps, zippers, studs, etc - they weaken the leather and in a crash will either dig into your flesh, or rip off, leaving your flesh rubbing along the road. Use your common sense - if it looks silly, it probably is. Don't buy leathers with "I'm a dork" spelled out in metal studs on the back just cos the salesman says they're great. Okay, so I've settled on something that looks the part. Is it as good as it looks ? Close inspection time. The easiest thing to check is just the shape of the jacket. If someone tried to physically pull it off you, would it come off easily ? If so, it will definitely come off in a crash. The arms should get narrower towards the wrist, to stop them sliding up your arms. The body should be shaped to stop it riding up your torso. Next, the zips. These should NOT be metal - they should be nylon, but good chunky ones all the same. How do you tell what they're made of ? Simple, the metal ones look like metal ! If they don't look like metal, they probably aren't, because most makers leave the metal bare because paint would just chip off. Any coloured zips will probably be nylon (even if the colour is black). Another good clue is that cuff (ie. wrist) zips should be on the inside of the arm, not the outside. If they haven't got that right, they've probably made some other mistakes as well. Next, the stitching. Just take a good look at it. You should expect to see double stitching (ie. two rows of stitching side by side) on all the major seams - front, shoulders, etc. Is the stitching regular (ie. the gaps between the stitches are the same size) ? Are there any *dropped* stitches (ie. the thread just goes straight for a bit where'd you'd expect a stitch to be) ? Learn to recognise an inch - for me this is the distance from the tip of my index finger to the first knuckle. Find a similar handy (no pun intended) measure. Count the number of stitches in an inch - there should be more than 7 and less than 12 (usually 7-8 or 10). Too few and the stitching is too weak - too many and the leather will be weakened by the stitching. Now the actual construction of the leather. Easiest to check are the areas where there should be double thickness leather. These are your "impact points" - the knees, hips/arse, elbows and shoulders (UK arse = US ass). How do you tell if they're double thickness ? In some cases, it looks really obvious, because an extra piece of leather is stitched onto the outside - however, you still have to check that the it has been layed on top of the original leather, and not just sew in (which would be very bad news). Get one hand inside and one outside. If it's double-layered, you should be able to separate the layers a little by working at it with both hands. Also of great importance is a quick look at how the garment has been designed. Has it been put together with the minimum number of "panels" (the separate pieces of leather which make up the garment) - remember : the more panels, the more seams; the more seams, the weaker the leathers. How do you tighten/loosen them ? Are there buckles or stretch panels ? Buckles should be far enough away from the impact points to avoid them digging into you when you meet the tarmac. Stretch panels are generally made of a thinner leather, so they also should not be too near to the impact points. The most important thing is actually the most difficult to work out - the thickness of the leather. For this you'll just have to check the labels, or ask the staff. The leather should be at LEAST 1mm thick - anything thinner is complete crap : most decent suits will have at least 1.3mm and maybe up to 1.5mm if your lucky. Right, now we come to the area that had me REALLY digging. Padding/Body armour. Everybody talks about it. If you listen to the advertising, Joe Bloggs' leathers are better than everyone else's because they've got Protectoshite body armour. The beauty of it all is that is that almost all of it is actually complete crap ! Looking about, I could see all these claims and counter-claims, and I knew they couldn't ALL be true, so I did some research. Eventually I got back to what seems to me to the proverbial horse's mouth. The guy's name is Dr Rod Woods, and he works in Cambridge, England, UK. He has a materials testing lab where he's working on a new EC Personal Protective Equipment Directive (EC = European Community). He seems to know what he's talking about, and he doesn't mind talking about it - even to the likes of me. I won't tell you how to contact him because the guy has a job to do and he won't be too pleased with me if I set the whole internet to phoning him all the time. If you're any good at research and you WANT to, you'll be able to find him as well. What this guy told me was that there's only one sort of padding that's worth having, and almost nobody uses it ! It's made of a compound call Polynorbonene (it should be 8mm thick), and it sells (in Europe) under two trade names, Norsorex and Noene. It's a SOFT padding. The Doc says HARD padding in a complete no-no. In the first place it doesn't absorb impact - it passes it straight on to your body. In the second place, the rigid shape of the pad is likely to rip straight out of the leathers, leaving your skin to get acquainted with the ground. "But", I said to the good doctor "Surely hard pads help if the hit something sharp." "Well, it might," says he, "but statistically speaking, that doesn't happen !" This is when we got into an involved discussion about statistics. Now, the following piece is based on the Good Doctor's knowledge of the statistics. Me, personally, I don't want to argue with the guy. It seems to me that he's been in contact with most of the major hospitals in the UK. I can't compete with that personally. The Good Doctor tells me that, statistically speaking, you want to protect yourself from the feet up. He tells me about this idea of a rating of the frequency with which an injury occurs (over, say the UK in a year) and the dehabilitation caused by the injury. Turn the statistics into betting odds, and we're talking about your chances of not being able to walk after a crash. Now, the Good Doctor says that this rating DECREASES as you go up the body, ie.fewer people are dehabilitated from chest injuries or back injuries than from foot injuries. Yes, I found it hard to believe too, but he's got the st atistics ! That means, protect your feet first, then your legs, then your body. He admits that there's a peak at the head, ie. the head causes more dehabilitation than the body, but from there down, this rule holds. I openly admit that this all came as news to me. I told him all sorts of scenarios - chest injuries from upper body impact : ruptured kidneys from back impact : broken back from back impact - he told me that statistically speaking, they just don't happen. Back injuries seldom happen to bikers - and those that do would not be prevented by back protectors. "How so ?", I ask him. Well, statistically speaking, all back injuries in bikers (and they're few and far between) involve bending or twisting of the back - like when you r shoulder or chin hits the ground hard, with resultant detrimental effects on your back. Back protector won't help there, pal. He tells me that broken ankles are the most common injury you can imagine. Compare them to broken backs and you're talking mountains and molehills. Surprising stuff. Time to revise my ideas on protection. Okay, so what can we draw from all this. Polynorbonene is the only padding to have. I don't know of anyone in the US supplying the stuff, and only three in the UK. Please e-mail me for details, if you want. On the other hand, I'm sure you're going to turn round and tell me that the stuff has been in the US for years, and how come we haven't heard of it ? The next point is very interesting - you need more protection to your feet and legs than to any other part of the body (apart from the head). How many salespeople have you heard saying that ? "None" is my answer. So don't believe the salespeople. So to sum up, my advice to anyone thinking about leathers would be as follows: 1. Before you do anything else, go out and buy yourself a decent pair of boots, with built-in ankle protection. By that, I don't mean armour in the boot, what's more important is that the boot grips the ankle so that any twisting or bending action is prevented. Take a look at a good quality pair of mountaineering boots for an example of this. They're built specifically to protect against this, since it's easy to break an ankle on uneven ground and it's then a big problem getting home. 2. Then buy yourself a good pair of leather jeans, double-layered in the right places, and padded (in the same places) with Polynorbonene (if you can find it). 3. Lastly, buy a jacket with the same double-layering and padding rules. Right, as soon as I post this, I'm sure half the net is going to flame me, but what the hell. I wrote it in the hope that it would be of some help to someone, and I stand by that. Good luck with your leathers ! mfitzpatrick@XXXXXX Martin Fitzpatrick at BBC Scotland ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: From dc-cycles-request Tue May 16 11:38:53 1995 Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 11:37:47 -0400 From: gould patrick X-Sender: pgould1@XXXXXX To: "Kelly.Cash" cc: hacker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Leathers In-Reply-To: <9505161227.AA06031@hanfs01.ha.osd.mil> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII nOn Tue, 16 May 1995, Kelly.Cash wrote: > > From: hacker@XXXXXX (Dark Hacker) > > Subject: Leathers > > > Any recomendations for places in the DC area that I can buy leather jackets? > > I really like the first Gear stuff but it's EXPEN$IVE! I'd rather pay $200 > > tops for a hard leather jacket than $400+ for the Hiene Gerhike stuff. Don't > > get me wrong... these are great jackets but I could settle for a lesser jacket > > with a lesser price tag. > > Can you REALLY settle for less? I won't get on my bikes without wearing my > Hein Gericke Stealth Pilot jacket. I paid $500 for it at my bike shop, but > have seen it for $400 at bike shows/rallies. It has too many good features. > > But what's the real reason we wear leathers? For style? Naaah. > For PROTECTION. Last november some moron turned left in front of me from two > Keep the shiny side up, > > -Kelly Cash > Seems to me that you pay at least an extra $100 for the Hiene Gerhike name, and it's not the name that protecting your skin in a fall. -patrick From dc-cycles-request Tue May 16 11:55:51 1995 Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 11:55:43 -0400 From: kcash@XXXXXX (Kelly.Cash) To: pgould1@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Leathers > Seems to me that you pay at least an extra $100 for the Hiene > Gerhike name, and it's not the name that protecting your skin in a fall. > > -patrick Entirely possible. Also, as with many things, as you get closer to the top of the line, the cost goes up exponentially. For me, it's worth the extra hundred bucks to know my stitching won't tear out, that the jacket is comfortable and strong, etc. There are too many products out there that claim to be "good enough". And many of 'em may be. But would I trust 'em to save my hide? Nope. Would I wear a helmet without a DOT certification? Nope. Don't get me wrong, I like a bargain as much as the next guy, and hate throwing my money away for something silly like a name. (I don't own a HOG for the same reason, but I digress, and probably shouldn't run the risk of starting a religious war by saying that) But I feel that there are some things I just shouldn't cut corners on, and my protective gear is one of those things. The original question was should Dark Hacker spend $200 for a hard leather jacket instead of a top dollar Hein Gericke. Having gone down in that top dollar jacket, and seeing what little damage I and it sustained in that get off, I feel pretty strongly in favor of the First Gear stuff. It's just an opinion, but it's an educated one. If he (or anyone else who's listening) is in the market for a good jacket and doesn't want to shell out the bucks for the Stealth, I'd at least recommend finding a jacket with the built-in body armor. It made a BIG difference. Ride safe, -K From dc-cycles-request Tue May 16 12:27:18 1995 From: Bob Tobias Subject: Help needed to contact MD MSF To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 12:26:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24alpha3] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 262 Hi All, Does anyone know how I can get in contact with the Maryland MSF? Thanks Bob Tobias '82 Virago 920 =========================================================================== Phone: (301) 897-8859 Fax: (301) 897-5354 e-mail: tobias@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request Tue May 16 12:53:38 1995 From: mjb@XXXXXX (Matt Bennett) Subject: Re: Help needed to contact MD MSF To: tobias@XXXXXX (Bob Tobias) Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 12:46:57 -0400 (EDT) Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In-Reply-To: <199505161626.MAA22786@clark.net> from "Bob Tobias" at May 16, 95 12:26:53 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 112 > Does anyone know how I can get in contact with the Maryland MSF? >From the Yellow pages: 1-800-638-1722 Matt From dc-cycles-request Tue May 16 13:48:23 1995 From: "Begeman, Leon" To: dc-cycles Subject: RE: Help needed to contact MD MSF Date: Tue, 16 May 95 13:46:00 edt Encoding: 9 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Maryland MSF is 1-800-638-1722 (inside Maryland only) or (410) 508-2439 Leon begemanl@XXXXXX ---------- >Does anyone know how I can get in contact with the Maryland MSF? > From dc-cycles-request Tue May 16 21:56:43 1995 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 15 May 1995 21:47:05 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: hacker@XXXXXX (Dark Hacker) Subject: Re: Leathers >I couldn't agree more. Below is an excellent article on leathers posted >some time ago to rec.moto. > >Phil Kester > > >===================== > > >>From: mfitzpatrick@XXXXXX (Martin Fitzpatrick) >[1] LEATHERS - The Good, The Bad and The Ugly. >Summary: Investigation of quality of leathers. >Keywords: leathers one-piece two-piece protective clothing An excellent article and food for thought. in light of the injuries possible the Heine Gerick "Stealth" is starting to look better and better. Kidney pads and various other padding. Looks uncomfortable. So is traction. - Hacker - Hacker "Life itself is... COMPUTATION!" email: hacker@XXXXXX www: (under construction) Dark Hacker @ Black Silicon, Fortress Of Computation From dc-cycles-request Wed May 17 17:03:23 1995 From: WOODJARODRYA@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 17 May 1995 15:57:00 -0500 (CDT) Subject: unsubscibe To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX X-Vms-To: IN%"dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT please take me off the list. it uses too much of my memory. thanks woodjarodrya@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request Fri May 19 11:45:29 1995 From: ma1scb%OIT.GroupWise.GWUMC@XXXXXX X-Nvlenv-01Date-Transferred: 19-May-1995 11:44:37 -0400; at CRASH.GWUMC X-Nvlenv-01Date-Posted: 19-May-1995 11:42:26 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 19 May 95 11:42:11 EDT Subject: Insurance in D.C. I am sure that this question has been asked before.... but, what the hell, here it is again. What moto insurance companies underwrite in DC? When I got my new CB1000 (yeah) I had to grovel like a worm to coverage. I wanted full coverage on the bike. I ended up with GEICO (Cycle Guard) for about $1200.00 a year (ouch). Most of the agents I call say "You live in DC? Forget it...." I really don't have a problem with GEICO save: 1. It would be nice to pay less (a universal constant) 2. GEICO will not cover "sport bikes" -- luck for me a CB1000 is considered a standard bike. They would not even cover a CBR1000F because it is a "sport bike" (on the side, I think of a CBR1000F as more of Sport-Tourer... now a CBR900RR -- that's a sport bike.) 3. I am worried that if I get a ticket I will get doped and not have another company to talk to... I currently have no tickets/accidents, have been riding for four years and have MSF stuff. I don't intend to get a ticket, but you never know... 4. After the CB1000 (in two years or so) I think I might like a sport-Tourer like a CBR1000F or a ZX-11... GEICO will not cover these bikes... So, after reading this drivel, anybody who owns a scoot in DC pls. let me know what insurance you use.... TTFN -sean P.S. If you can't make out my e-mail address (still working on the gateways) ... it's "ma1scb@XXXXXX" From dc-cycles-request Mon May 22 11:10:45 1995 From: "jay gitomer" Date: Mon, 22 May 1995 10:07:29 -0400 In-Reply-To: sturges@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Rich Sturges) "Used parts for sale" (May 15, 1:09pm) X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 26oct94 MediaMail) To: balt-cycles@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Subscription info Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, everyone: Can someone send me subscription info for both balt- and dc- cycles? A friend of mine wants to sign up and I don't have the info anymore. Thanks-- Jay -- Jay Gitomer Silicon Graphics, Inc. Eastern Area Training Coordinator t: 301/572-3250 f: 301/572-3280 e: jgitomer@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request Mon May 22 21:01:23 1995 Date: Mon, 22 May 1995 21:01:23 -0400 From: leavitt@XXXXXX (Mr. Bill) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, ma1scb%OIT.GroupWise.GWUMC@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Insurance in D.C. > I really don't have a problem with GEICO save: > 1. It would be nice to pay less (a universal constant) > 2. GEICO will not cover "sport bikes" -- luck for me a CB1000 is... > 3. I am worried that if I get a ticket I will get doped and not have ... > 4. After the CB1000 (in two years or so) I think I might like a sport-... 5. GEICO will drop you if you ride without a helmet, regardless of prevailing helmet laws in the state where you live/ride. 6. GEICO will drop you if you ride with a radar detector, regardless of prevailing radar detector usage laws in the state where you live/ride. 7. GEICO takes money from your premium and uses it to buy radar and laser guns for police departments. 8. GEICO takes money from your premium and uses it to help fund bogus studies such as those by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety which are then used to jack up premiums, blacklist bikes as serve as supporting arguments for anti-motorcycle legislation. I imagine other companies help fund this as well, but GEICO is up-front and proud of it. This said, I was with GEICO for 8 years. My coverage expired at midnight last Friday. I was poor and had to get the cheapest coverage I could find, which was with them. Given 5-8, I felt like I sold my soul. I'm to the point where I can afford more now to get away from this emissary of Satan, so I booted them. Even at that, I found a company that was ~10% cheaper. Call Progressive, 1-800-398-7158. Note that I live in the northeastern corner of MD (not remotely like DC) and am probably considered a good risk (34, 15 years experience, no tickets/accidents, MSF course, etc). Good luck! Mr. Bill -- Bill Leavitt, leavitt@XXXXXX | "Blow it out your ass, motorcycle man! AMA, ICOA, Lemans, DoD #0224 | I am THE DEVIL, do you UNDERSTAND?" '82 CBX, '82 GS850GZ, '76 CJ360T | --Frank Zappa, "Titties & Beer" From dc-cycles-request Tue May 23 12:19:02 1995 From: "skip farmer" Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 09:18:48 -0700 X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 26oct94 MediaMail) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Service shop Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I need to have a little work done on my Suzuki GS450. Could someone recommend a shop in the DC area. -thanks. -- Skip Farmer ----------------------- Silicon Graphics Chesapeake Region 12200-G Plum Orchard Dr. Silver Spring, MD 20904 (301) 572-3292 (301) 572-3280 Fax skip@XXXXXX ------------------------ From dc-cycles-request Tue May 23 16:41:30 1995 Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 16:41:19 -0400 From: greer@XXXXXX (Greg Greer) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Insurance in D.C. In-Reply-To: "Re: Insurance in D.C." of May 22 from leavitt@cs.umd.edu (leavitt@cs.umd.edu) >From the message: "Re: Insurance in D.C." of May 22 by leavitt@XXXXXX (Mr. Bill): >> a company that was ~10% cheaper. Call Progressive, 1-800-398-7158. >> Note that I live in the northeastern corner of MD (not remotely like >> DC) and am probably considered a good risk (34, 15 years experience, >> no tickets/accidents, MSF course, etc). Good luck! Progressive does not write insurance for DC residents. I was unable to find anyone who writes just motorcycle insurance for DC residents. If you have a car to insure, too, you might be able to find something if you have a _spotless_ record. Good luck, Greg From dc-cycles-request Tue May 23 17:39:32 1995 From: ma1scb%OIT.GroupWise.GWUMC@XXXXXX X-Nvlenv-01Date-Transferred: 23-May-1995 17:38:40 -0400; at CRASH.GWUMC X-Nvlenv-01Date-Posted: 23-May-1995 17:36:20 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 23 May 95 17:36:15 EDT Subject: Re: Insurance in D.C. -Reply >from the message: "Re: Insurance in D.C." of May 22 by >leavitt@XXXXXX (Mr. Bill): >> a company that was ~10% cheaper. Call Progressive, 1-800-398-7158. >> Note that I live in the northeastern corner of MD (not remotely like >> DC) and am probably considered a good risk (34, 15 years experience, >> no tickets/accidents, MSF course, etc). Good luck! >Progressive does not write insurance for DC residents. I was unable >to find anyone who writes just motorcycle insurance for DC residents. >If you have a car to insure, too, you might be able to find something >if you have a _spotless_ record. >Good luck, >Greg FYI: GEICO (Under there Cycle Guard name) will insure just a motorcycle. I don't have a car (nor want a car) in DC. Man, parking a MC is hard enough in DC... As for the ins., I found a 800 outfit advertising in the latest RIDER (not the RIDER ins. policy)... I will given them a ring and post the results. From dc-cycles-request Wed May 24 16:45:05 1995 Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 14:44:46 -0600 From: as899@XXXXXX (Lee Carkenord) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Yamaha FJ I'm looking for Yamaha FJ 1100/1200 owners/riders who have an E-mail address. We'll chat, swap info, etc. If you're interested, or know someone who might be interested, send me an E-mail address. As soon as I get a few addresses, I'll e-mail those addresses out to those who have responded. Lee in Denver Colorado My E-mail address is: as899@XXXXXX -- -- From dc-cycles-request Thu May 25 11:36:24 1995 Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 11:36:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Becky Love To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: FS: MC Jacket/Boots/Helmet ALMOST NEW! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I have the following itmes for sale. All of them were worn for a very short time on a bike that I recently had to sell. So I have no use for these like new items. FirstGear Scout Women's Size 44 $375 AXO Street/Racing boots Black Size 9 $150 Shoei RF700 Quake Helmet Medium $175 High Contrast visor for the Shoei $20 Please respond to rlove@XXXXXX with any offers/inquiries. Becky From dc-cycles-request Tue May 30 11:50:59 1995 From: "McLoone, William J." To: Balt-Cycles , DC-Cycles , MotoList Subject: Parts Source Needed Date: Tue, 30 May 95 11:45:00 EST Encoding: 14 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 I am looking for sources of used motorcycle parts (or cheaper new ones) who sell to the general public. Can anyone help me out? Specifically, I need to replace the turn signal lever on an '82 Suzuki GS-450 TXz since the thumb switch flung of after indicating a turn. I can get the whole assembly but not the switch. The new assembly cost $100 at my local dealer. I hope some of you can direct me to a cheaper source for parts so that I can get back on the road. Thanks in advance Bill McLoone, '82 Suzuki GS-450 TXz From dc-cycles-request Tue May 30 11:57:03 1995 Date: Tue, 30 May 95 11:56:57 EDT From: walt@XXXXXX (Walt Dabell) To: balt-cycles@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX, motolist@XXXXXX, wjm1@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Parts Source Needed > From: "McLoone, William J." > I am looking for sources of used motorcycle parts (or cheaper new ones) who > sell to the general public. Can anyone help me out? P & F Motorcycle Salvage 2245 N. Dupont Hiway Dover, DE 19901 (302)674-4990 They advertise "UPS Service available" They have a very large collection of jap bikes. Walt Dabell (302)645-4225 walt@XXXXXX University of Delaware, College of Marine Studies