From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun May  2 11:52:26 2004
From: "W.S." <mobacc@XXXXXX>
To: "DC-Cycles" <DC-Cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Speedy Sidecars
Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 11:51:35 -0400

An oblique view at more stability -- One-third page from 4/30 NYT:


Not So Sedate: Sidecars Fitted for Speed
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/30/automobiles/30AUTO.html (may require
registration)


Bill S. / DC
'99 VN750 > Mo' wheels?  Need mo' power
Join the AMA.  Help protect my riding fun.



From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun May  2 12:59:31 2004
Date: Sun,  2 May 2004 12:59:13 -0400
From: "Chris Norloff" <cnorloff@XXXXXX>
Reply-To: <cnorloff@XXXXXX>
To: "DC-Cycles" <DC-Cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Speedy Sidecars

Good article!

Here's Symington's website, with lots of good info - and pics and video - of modern high-performance sidecar rigs.

http://hometown.aol.com/sidebike99/index.html

And another site that may be of interest:
http://www.inb.net/hannigan/new%20pages/sport.html

Chris Norloff


---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "W.S." <mobacc@XXXXXX>
Date:  Sun, 2 May 2004 11:51:35 -0400

>An oblique view at more stability -- One-third page from 4/30 NYT:
>
>
>Not So Sedate: Sidecars Fitted for Speed
>http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/30/automobiles/30AUTO.html (may require
>registration)
>
>
>Bill S. / DC
>'99 VN750 > Mo' wheels?  Need mo' power
>Join the AMA.  Help protect my riding fun.
>
>
>
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May  3 01:22:52 2004
Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 00:22:55 -0500
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Sean Jordan <eternity23@XXXXXX>
Subject: WERA National weekend @ Nashville Superspeedway

My first attempts at motorsports photography! There are only a few pics
posted right now - there are (alot) more to come. Let me know what you
think! Stay tuned for more pics! (Thanks to Jordan elder for hosting space!)

http://michaelj.smugmug.com/gallery/109620

- Sean Jordan

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May  3 07:23:47 2004
From: "Rob Keiser" <robkeiser@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: FW:  Got a parking ticket in DC?
Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 07:12:24 -0400

This was sent to me via another list.  Someone posted a question here
regarding a ticket not too long ago.  Maybe this can help.

No affiliation....just a messenger.

<snip>


Check out this story from NBC 4 -
http://www.nbc4.com/money/3251191/detail.html

Or go straight to the website - http://parkingticket.com

This guy will fight it for you and if he gets it dismissed you pay him
only half the fine, if he loses you pay nothing.  And check out the
special where you can try it for free (even if he wins) until May 6th.

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself with the new version of MSN Messenger! Download today -
it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May  3 08:35:13 2004
Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 08:34:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: dan <dan@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: camping site recomadations?

Looking for a short overnight stay.  About 2-3 hours away from Leesburg
would be good.  Any recommendations?

Dan

--

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May  3 08:39:10 2004
Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 08:38:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Daniel H. Brown" <brown@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: camping site recomadations?

On Mon, 3 May 2004, dan wrote:
> Looking for a short overnight stay.  About 2-3 hours away from Leesburg
> would be good.

Which direction?

>  Any recommendations?

There should be many along the Blue Ridge Parkway. What kinda accomodations
do you need/want?

--
Dan Brown
brown@XXXXXX

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May  3 08:51:35 2004
Subject: RE: camping site recomadations?
Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 08:51:25 -0400
From: "Verde, Robert" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>
To: "Daniel H. Brown" <brown@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

I second the comments for campgrounds along the BRP.  http://www.insiders.com/blueridge/main-parkway2.htm

Otherwise, for a little further out, you might try a day trip to Seneca Rocks, great roads, scenic beauty, and a lovely campground with showers. http://www.fs.fed.us/r9/mnf/rec/rog_campgrounds/senecashadows_campground.htm

Robert Verde



-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel H. Brown [mailto:brown@XXXXXX]
Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 8:39 AM
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: camping site recomadations?


On Mon, 3 May 2004, dan wrote:
> Looking for a short overnight stay.  About 2-3 hours away from Leesburg
> would be good.

Which direction?

>  Any recommendations?

There should be many along the Blue Ridge Parkway. What kinda accomodations
do you need/want?

--
Dan Brown
brown@XXXXXX


From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May  3 08:51:54 2004
From: "Bruce N" <bcn@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: camping site recomadations?
Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 08:49:33 -0400

Seneca Shadows campground, Seneca Rocks, WV.

http://www.fs.fed.us/r9/mnf/rec/rog_campgrounds/senecashadows_campground.htm

Bruce


----- Original Message -----
From: "dan" <dan@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 8:34 AM
Subject: camping site recomadations?


> Looking for a short overnight stay.  About 2-3 hours away from Leesburg
> would be good.  Any recommendations?
>
> Dan
>
> --
>
>
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May  3 08:53:12 2004
Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 08:52:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: dan <dan@XXXXXX>
To: "Daniel H. Brown" <brown@XXXXXX>
cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: camping site recomadations?

> Which direction?

Probably west, but not too particular.

>
> >  Any recommendations?
>
> There should be many along the Blue Ridge Parkway. What kinda accomodations
> do you need/want?

I've thought about a few on skyline (BRP is too far away for this trip).
Would prefer to have showers/bathroom facilities, electricity is not a
must have.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May  3 09:24:44 2004
Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 09:24:40 -0400
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: camping site recommendations?

At 08:34 AM 5/3/2004, dan wrote:
>Looking for a short overnight stay.  About 2-3 hours away from Leesburg
>would be good.  Any recommendations?

St.Mary's Wilderness (down 81 an hour) is beautiful and fun on the App trail.
We are headed to Harper's Ferry (up the App trail along the Rappahannock)
this weekend.  There are easy and difficult hikes, seclusion and public
campgrounds.

Seneca Rocks is good too.  Very pretty.  Great climbs there and the very
close Great Falls park.





___________________________________________
     Mike Troutman
         http://www.troutman.org/vfr
         1997 Honda VFR 750
            AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/
            NMA http://www.motorists.org

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May  3 10:39:41 2004
From: "Perry Coleman" <perrycoleman@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: camping site recomadations?
Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 10:38:31 -0400

Dan,

How about Blackwater Falls State Park in Davis (I think...) West Virginia.
Good road choices to get there and a nice place to camp.

Or, Swallow Falls out near Deep Creek Lake. I haven't been there in a long
time, though. It used to be nice.

Perry

>From: dan <dan@XXXXXX>
>To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
>Subject: camping site recomadations?
>Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 08:34:12 -0400 (EDT)
>
>Looking for a short overnight stay.  About 2-3 hours away from Leesburg
>would be good.  Any recommendations?
>
>Dan
>
>--
>

_________________________________________________________________
Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee)B®
Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May  3 12:03:28 2004
From: "Sean Steele" <sean@XXXXXX>
To: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 12:03:15 -0400
Subject: Carb sync tool

I'm *considering* doing a carb sync myself on my '92 Seca II and have
been looking at the Holeshot Carb Sync Gauge Set(s), but $170 is a
little steep -- does anyone know a cheaper source?

Also, what do you guys think of the "do it yourself" version here:
http://www.powerchutes.com/manometer.asp

-Sean
"Wash DC... please!"

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May  3 12:08:52 2004
Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 12:10:35 -0400
To: "Daniel H. Brown" <brown@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: camping site recomadations?

At 08:38 AM 5/3/04 -0400, Daniel H. Brown wrote:
>On Mon, 3 May 2004, dan wrote:
>> Looking for a short overnight stay.  About 2-3 hours away from Leesburg
>> would be good.
>
>Which direction?

And how fast will you be moving?  :-)


-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May  3 12:19:45 2004
Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 12:19:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Daniel H. Brown" <brown@XXXXXX>
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Carb sync tool

On Mon, 3 May 2004, Sean Steele wrote:

> Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 12:03:15 -0400
> From: Sean Steele <sean@XXXXXX>
> To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
> Subject: Carb sync tool
>
> I'm *considering* doing a carb sync myself on my '92 Seca II and have
> been looking at the Holeshot Carb Sync Gauge Set(s), but $170 is a
> little steep -- does anyone know a cheaper source?
>

You can get a "twinmax" electronic synchronizer for $77

http://tinyurl.com/2lnx7

This is the device that Morton's BMW has used the last two times
my bike has been in there because their fancy BMW machine failed.

And, ya, I know it only has 2 inputs. For bikes that have more than
2 cyls you just have to repeat the operation a couple times.


> Also, what do you guys think of the "do it yourself" version here:
> http://www.powerchutes.com/manometer.asp

Suppose it depends on how good you are at building tools.

--
Dan Brown
brown@XXXXXX

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May  3 18:17:02 2004
From: "Gary Foreman" <lists@XXXXXX>
To: "'DC Cycles'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Carb sync tool
Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 18:19:43 -0400

I have a mercury gauge that's free to anyone who wants to come to Winchester
and get it!

Gary

-----Original Message-----
From: Sean Steele [mailto:sean@XXXXXX]
Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 12:03 PM
To: DC Cycles
Subject: Carb sync tool

I'm *considering* doing a carb sync myself on my '92 Seca II and have been
looking at the Holeshot Carb Sync Gauge Set(s), but $170 is a little steep
-- does anyone know a cheaper source?

Also, what do you guys think of the "do it yourself" version here:
http://www.powerchutes.com/manometer.asp

-Sean
"Wash DC... please!"



From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May  3 19:12:29 2004
Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 16:12:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Kozyn <mr_vfr@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: dc-cycles digest for 05/03/04
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

From: "Gary Foreman" <lists@XXXXXX>

I have a mercury gauge that's free to anyone who wants to come to
Winchester and get it!

===========

Now, that's a deal!

You might also wanna try jcwhitney.com. I got the MotionPro tool
(mercury gauge) for around $45, I think.

John Kozyn (D-mode)
1999 900SS
1995 VFR750F









__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May  3 21:29:40 2004
From: "Paul Wilson" <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: dc-cycles digest for 05/03/04
Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 21:29:54 -0400

Yep, the el cheapo mercury gauge from Motion Pro works great for me.  Just
be careful and don't let the Hg spill out.  Might be overkill if you have a
twin, though.  :)

Paul in DC
95 VFR - 96 KLR650 - www.wilsonline.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Kozyn" <mr_vfr@XXXXXX>


> From: "Gary Foreman" <lists@XXXXXX>
>
> I have a mercury gauge that's free to anyone who wants to come to
> Winchester and get it!
>
> ===========
>
> Now, that's a deal!
>
> You might also wanna try jcwhitney.com. I got the MotionPro tool
> (mercury gauge) for around $45, I think.
>
> John Kozyn (D-mode)
> 1999 900SS
> 1995 VFR750F

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May  3 21:38:27 2004
From: "Paul Wilson" <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
To: "Dc-Cycles" <DC-CYCLES@XXXXXX>, <ScooterFZR@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: XM Radio on the bike?
Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 21:38:42 -0400

Sounds like the ldrider list might be a good resource for you, if you
haven't checked it already.  I've not noticed any interference with the GPS.
I have the Delphi SkyFi, not the Roady.  There are some XM discussion lists
for the Roady.  Some people have said the Roady's small buttons are hard to
manipulate with gloves.  I like the SkyFi, as I use it at home as well.  I
get good reception inside the house, even with the vehicle kit.

See it here, with my RAM mount, in the "Farkles" directory.

http://community.webshots.com/user/dchondarider/1

It's great for those long slab drones, although I tend not to use the music
as much in more challenging riding situations, esp. the talk radio channels.
;-)  They've recently added a weather and traffic service, which I use a
great deal.  DC is XM channel 214, and it's prevented me for getting caught
in snarls when I'm out and about on the bike.  They have traffic channels
for most major cities, with more on the way.  I have the Boosteroo amp.  The
output on the SkyFi is not sufficient to power helmet speakers to overcome
wind noise and earplugs.  My setup performed flawlessly on my four-day ride
this past weekend.

Paul in DC
95 VFR - 96 KLR650 - www.wilsonline.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Kitchell" <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
To: "Dc-Cycles" <DC-CYCLES@XXXXXX>
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 1:44 PM
Subject: RE: XM Radio on the bike?


> Paul Wilson does.  He is riding his bike to Ohio as we
> speak. Ask him next week.
>
>
> --- customtankbags <customtankbags@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > Quite a few of the LDRiders are running these.
> > There is some problem with
> > interference with a GPS, but other than that,
> > everyone seems happy.
> >
> > LindaT.
> > http://www.customtankbags.com
> > Now - TankBags for 1800 Wings
> > Hollywood, FL
> > AMA IBA HSTA BMWBMW
> > 99 R1100RT Mr. Buzzy
> > 95 F3 Purple Haze
> > 00 KLR250 Super Sherpa Tenzing
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX [mailto:ScooterFZR@XXXXXX]
> > Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 1:23 PM
> > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> > Subject: XM Radio on the bike?
> >
> >
> > Anyone using XM Radio on their bike?  I'm looking at
> > picking up the XM Roady
> > for a greater variety than my MP3 player and wanted
> > to know if anyone had
> > experience with this yet?
> >
> > Scooter
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
> http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May  3 21:39:14 2004
Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 21:38:56 -0400
From: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>
To: dan <dan@XXXXXX>
CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: camping site recomadations?

dan wrote:
> Looking for a short overnight stay.  About 2-3 hours away from Leesburg
> would be good.  Any recommendations?

Sorry, can't say I've ever moto-camped that close to home.  I
have been known to take a short nap on a picnic table at the odd rest
area on I-81 now and then, coming home from places like Texas or
Missouri.  :)

I *can* highly recommend the Willville Bike Resort, down on
US-58 at the Meadows of Dan, VA, a short ways off of the BRP.
Nice motorcycle-only campground.  I plan on going back again
sometime.  http://www.willvillebikecamp.com/

Horkster

--
Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)

Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX '98 Concours - BugSlayer
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth      '99 Concours - Grape Nehi
CM #001 NRA IBA COG                  '82 GS850G - Neat old bike

The Mason Dixon 20-20 Endurance Rally:  The Games People Play
Come join us in 2004:   http://www.masondixon20-20.org

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May  3 21:58:37 2004
From: "Paul Wilson" <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: RE Mileage Bragging Rights
Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 21:58:52 -0400

Hmmm, I reckon the real riders are the ones who don't have a deathgrip on
the bars and can manage to wave back.  ;-)

Paul in DC
95 VFR - 96 KLR650 - www.wilsonline.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Allis" <dhallis@XXXXXX>



> You guys are really long distance motorcycle WIMPS!  1200 miles, 2,400
miles
> or 5,000 miles a year?  Don't talk to me about being a real rider until
you
> approach 10,000 miles a year.  ....

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May  4 08:23:58 2004
Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 08:23:41 -0400
From: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>
To: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: RE Mileage Bragging Rights

Paul Wilson wrote:
> Hmmm, I reckon the real riders are the ones who don't have a deathgrip on
> the bars and can manage to wave back.  ;-)
>
> Paul in DC
> 95 VFR - 96 KLR650 - www.wilsonline.org
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Doug Allis" <dhallis@XXXXXX>
>
>
>
>>You guys are really long distance motorcycle WIMPS!  1200 miles, 2,400
>
> miles
>
>>or 5,000 miles a year?  Don't talk to me about being a real rider until
>
> you
>
>>approach 10,000 miles a year.  ....

I can't talk to Doug yet, I don't have 10,000 miles yet this year.
Maybe by August.   :)

Horkster, having a slow year, mileage-wise
--
Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)

Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX '98 Concours - BugSlayer
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth      '99 Concours - Grape Nehi
CM #001 NRA IBA COG                  '82 GS850G - Neat old bike

The Mason Dixon 20-20 Endurance Rally:  The Games People Play
Come join us in 2004:   http://www.masondixon20-20.org

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May  4 09:03:37 2004
Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 06:03:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: Glenn Dysart <glenn_dysart@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: RE Mileage Bragging Rights
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

And retired to boot, shame on you!

Glenn

--- Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX> wrote:
> I can't talk to Doug yet, I don't have 10,000 miles
> yet this year.
> Maybe by August.   :)
>
> Horkster, having a slow year, mileage-wise





__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May  4 09:28:13 2004
Subject: OT - Non-moto accident
Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 09:28:02 -0400
From: "Verde, Robert" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

I apologize for the waste of bandwidth, but something's been bugging me...  ;-)

Last Thursday, on my way home through Tyson's Corner about 6:30 PM, there was an extensive traffic back-up on the west-bound side of Rt. 7 right at Tyson's Corners, opposite the Borders store.  Drawing near, I could see that traffic was routed off of Leesburg Pike and than back on a block later, apparently to avoid the scene of a traffic accident.  There was a car with a damaged windshield, and some distance away a police officer was spraypainting around a single shoe in the road.

Grim scene (reminded me of the list discussion of the lane-splitting FL motorcyclist), but the reason I brought it up is that I have been unable to find a single news reference to this event online.  I don't take the WP, so it might have been mentioned therein, but if anyone could suggest alternative places to check, I'd appreciate it.  It just seems odd that an accident like this would not make any news outlets, but maybe that's my closet idealism speaking!

Thanks!

Robert Verde

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May  4 09:37:44 2004
Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 09:37:41 -0400
From: Dave Yates <Dave@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: OT - Non-moto accident
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

Robert V. Reported:

>Last Thursday, on my way home through Tyson's Corner about
6:30 PM, there was an extensive traffic back-up on the west-
bound side of Rt. 7 right at Tyson's Corners, opposite the
Borders store.  Drawing near, I could see that traffic was
routed off of Leesburg Pike and than back on a block later,
apparently to avoid the scene of a traffic accident.  There
was a car with a damaged windshield, and some distance away a
police officer was spraypainting around a single shoe in the
road.
>
>Grim scene (reminded me of the list discussion of the lane-
splitting FL motorcyclist), but the reason I brought it up is
that I have been unable to find a single news reference to
this event online.  I don't take the WP, so it might have
been mentioned therein, but if anyone could suggest
alternative places to check, I'd appreciate it.  It just
seems odd that an accident like this would not make any news
outlets, but maybe that's my closet idealism speaking!

[Dave]  Next week, you can check here:
http://www.co.fairfax.va.us/ps/police/police7.htm
check the weekly summary of incidents and crimes...

HTH

Dave Yates

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May  4 09:38:11 2004
Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 09:38:06 -0400
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Subject: Dulles Expo Bike Show?

Are they doing another bike show at Dulles Expo this year?  I can't find
one on the schedule.  Last year was much better than the one downtown or
even in Baltimore.

http://www.dullesexpo.com/main/main.htm


___________________________________________
     Mike Troutman
         http://www.troutman.org/vfr
         1997 Honda VFR 750
            AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/
            NMA http://www.motorists.org

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May  4 09:39:24 2004
Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 09:39:04 -0400
From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
To: DC-CYCLES@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: XM Radio on the bike?
X-AOL-IP: 65.86.98.162

Paul,
Thanks for the info.  I picked up a Roady on Friday and ordered the Home Kit yesterday along with a Boosteroo.  Funny thing though, I also bought a headphone extension cable with inline volume control at Radio Shack yesterday for $5 and tried it out for shits and giggles.  I think I could get away without the Boosteroo.  :-)  That little sucker almost blasted my eardrums out at full blast.  =8-0  I had the Roady volume set all the way up, as well as the inline volume, and I could hear it across the room just coming out of my headphones.  Full volume was louder than full volume on my MP3 player.  Anyway, I tried the Roady out on the bike Saturday.  Only problem I had was everytime I hit a big bump it would turn off.  Either the dc plug wasn't getting a good connection or my dc socket has a loose wire.  I'm gonna check it out tonight.  It's actually a nice setup otherwise.  Came with a mounting kit, antenna, dc cable, cassette adapter kit and a wireless car kit for vehicles without cassette players.  Haven't
ried it in the car yet.  That's this weekend.  :-)
Scooter
In a message dated 5/3/2004 9:38:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, viffermaniac@XXXXXX writes:
> > > Sounds like the ldrider list might be a good resource for you, if you> haven't checked it already.  I've not noticed any interference with the GPS.> I have the Delphi SkyFi, not the Roady.  There are some XM discussion lists> for the Roady.  Some people have said the Roady's small buttons are hard to> manipulate with gloves.  I like the SkyFi, as I use it at home as well.  I> get good reception inside the house, even with the vehicle kit.> > See it here, with my RAM mount, in the "Farkles" directory.> > http://community.webshots.com/user/dchondarider/1> > It's great for those long slab drones, although I tend not to use the music> as much in more challenging riding situations, esp. the talk radio channels.> ;-)  They've recently added a weather and traffic service, which I use a> great deal.  DC is XM channel 214, and it's prevented me for getting caught> in snarls when I'm out and about on the bike.  They have traffic channels> for most major cities, with more on the way.  I have the Boosteroo amp.
he> output on the SkyFi is not sufficient to power helmet speakers to overcome> wind noise and earplugs.  My setup performed flawlessly on > my four-day ride> this past weekend.> > Paul in DC> 95 VFR - 96 KLR650 - www.wilsonline.org> ----- Original Message -----> From: "Mark Kitchell" <markkitchell@XXXXXX>> To: "Dc-Cycles" <DC-CYCLES@XXXXXX>> Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 1:44 PM> Subject: RE: XM Radio on the bike?> > > > Paul Wilson does.  He is riding his bike to Ohio as we> > speak. Ask him next week.> >> >> > --- customtankbags <customtankbags@XXXXXX> wrote:> > > Quite a few of the LDRiders are running these.> > > There is some problem with> > > interference with a GPS, but other than that,> > > everyone seems happy.> > >> > > LindaT.> > > http://www.customtankbags.com> > > Now - TankBags for 1800 Wings> > > Hollywood, FL> > > AMA IBA HSTA BMWBMW> > > 99 R1100RT Mr. Buzzy> > > 95 F3 Purple Haze> > > 00 KLR250 Super Sherpa Tenzing> > >> > >> > > -----Original Message-----> > > From: Sco!
 oterFZR@
aol.com [mailto:ScooterFZR@XXXXXX]> > > Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 1:23 PM> > > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX> > > Subject: XM Radio on the bike?> > >> > >> > > Anyone using XM Radio on their bike?  I'm looking at> > > picking up the XM Roady> > > for a greater variety than my MP3 player and wanted> > > to know if anyone had> > > experience with this yet?> > >> > > Scooter> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> > __________________________________> > Do you Yahoo!?> > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs> > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover> >

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May  4 09:44:56 2004
Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 06:44:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: XM Radio on the bike?
To: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX, DC-CYCLES@XXXXXX

Scoot:

What headphones/plugs are you using?


--- ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote:
> Paul,
> Thanks for the info.  I picked up a Roady on Friday
> and ordered the Home Kit yesterday along with a
> Boosteroo.  Funny thing though, I also bought a
> headphone extension cable with inline volume control
> at Radio Shack yesterday for $5 and tried it out for
> shits and giggles.  I think I could get away without
> the Boosteroo.  :-)  That little sucker almost
> blasted my eardrums out at full blast.  =8-0  I had
> the Roady volume set all the way up, as well as the
> inline volume, and I could hear it across the room
> just coming out of my headphones.  Full volume was
> louder than full volume on my MP3 player.  Anyway, I
> tried the Roady out on the bike Saturday.  Only
> problem I had was everytime I hit a big bump it
> would turn off.  Either the dc plug wasn't getting a
> good connection or my dc socket has a loose wire.
> I'm gonna check it out tonight.  It's actually a
> nice setup otherwise.  Came with a mounting kit,
> antenna, dc cable, cassette adapter kit and a
> wireless car kit for vehicles wi!
>  thout cassette players.  Haven't tried it in the
> car yet.  That's this weekend.  :-)
> Scooter
> In a message dated 5/3/2004 9:38:42 PM Eastern
> Daylight Time, viffermaniac@XXXXXX writes:
> > > > Sounds like the ldrider list might be a good
> resource for you, if you> haven't checked it
> already.  I've not noticed any interference with the
> GPS.> I have the Delphi SkyFi, not the Roady.  There
> are some XM discussion lists> for the Roady.  Some
> people have said the Roady's small buttons are hard
> to> manipulate with gloves.  I like the SkyFi, as I
> use it at home as well.  I> get good reception
> inside the house, even with the vehicle kit.> > See
> it here, with my RAM mount, in the "Farkles"
> directory.> >
> http://community.webshots.com/user/dchondarider/1> >
> It's great for those long slab drones, although I
> tend not to use the music> as much in more
> challenging riding situations, esp. the talk radio
> channels.> ;-)  They've recently added a weather and
> traffic service, which I use a> great deal.  DC is
> XM channel 214, and it's prevented me for getting
> caught> in snarls when I'm out and about on the
> bike.  They have traffic channels> for most major
> cities, with more on the !
>  way.  I have the Boosteroo amp.  The> output on the
> SkyFi is not sufficient to power helmet speakers to
> overcome> wind noise and earplugs.  My setup
> performed flawlessly on > my four-day ride> this
> past weekend.> > Paul in DC> 95 VFR - 96 KLR650 -
> www.wilsonline.org> ----- Original Message ----->
> From: "Mark Kitchell" <markkitchell@XXXXXX>> To:
> "Dc-Cycles" <DC-CYCLES@XXXXXX>> Sent: Friday,
> April 30, 2004 1:44 PM> Subject: RE: XM Radio on the
> bike?> > > > Paul Wilson does.  He is riding his
> bike to Ohio as we> > speak. Ask him next week.> >>
> >> > --- customtankbags <customtankbags@XXXXXX>
> wrote:> > > Quite a few of the LDRiders are running
> these.> > > There is some problem with> > >
> interference with a GPS, but other than that,> > >
> everyone seems happy.> > >> > > LindaT.> > >
> http://www.customtankbags.com> > > Now - TankBags
> for 1800 Wings> > > Hollywood, FL> > > AMA IBA HSTA
> BMWBMW> > > 99 R1100RT Mr. Buzzy> > > 95 F3 Purple
> Haze> > > 00 KLR250 Super Sherpa Te!
>  nzing> > >> > >> > > -----Original Message-----> >
> > From: Sco!
>  oterFZR@
> aol.com [mailto:ScooterFZR@XXXXXX]> > > Sent:
> Friday, April 30, 2004 1:23 PM> > > To:
> dc-cycles@XXXXXX> > > Subject: XM Radio on
> the bike?> > >> > >> > > Anyone using XM Radio on
> their bike?  I'm looking at> > > picking up the XM
> Roady> > > for a greater variety than my MP3 player
> and wanted> > > to know if anyone had> > >
> experience with this yet?> > >> > > Scooter> > >> >
> >> >> >> >> >> >> >
> __________________________________> > Do you
> Yahoo!?> > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo!
> HotJobs> >
> http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover>
> >
>





__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May  4 09:57:29 2004
Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 09:57:15 -0400
From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
To: DC-CYCLES@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: XM Radio on the bike?
X-AOL-IP: 65.86.98.162

Mark,

I picked up a set of in helmet speakers from www.clearercom.com at the bike show a couple months ago.  They fit in the helmet really nice.  You can't even tell they're there unless your looking.  The MP3 player powered them pretty good for volume but, the XM radio doesn't technically have a volume control.  You're supposed to use the volume of your car radio.  Anyway, the cable I bought from Radio Shack, http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F007%5F002%5F003%5F010&product%5Fid=42%2D2559  (Gold-Plated Volume Control Cable for Stereo Headphones) really works well so far on the XM radio.  Just gotta try it on the bike now.  :-)

Scooter


In a message dated 5/4/2004 9:44:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time, markkitchell@XXXXXX writes:

>
>
> Scoot:
>
> What headphones/plugs are you using?
>
>
> --- ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote:
> > Paul,
> > Thanks for the info.  I picked up a Roady on Friday
> > and ordered the Home Kit yesterday along with a
> > Boosteroo.  Funny thing though, I also bought a
> > headphone extension cable with inline volume control
> > at Radio Shack yesterday for $5 and tried it out for
> > shits and giggles.  I think I could get away without
> > the Boosteroo.  :-)  That little sucker almost
> > blasted my eardrums out at full blast.  =8-0  I had
> > the Roady volume set all the way up, as well as the
> > inline volume, and I could hear it across the room
> > just coming out of my headphones.  Full volume was
> > louder than full volume on my MP3 player.  Anyway, I
> > tried the Roady out on the bike Saturday.  Only
> > problem I had was everytime I hit a big bump it
> > would turn off.  Either the dc plug wasn't getting a
> > good connection or my dc socket has a loose wire.
> > I'm gonna check it out tonight.  It's actually a
> > nice setup otherwise.  Came with a mounting kit,
> > antenna, dc cable, cassette adapter kit and a
> > wireless car kit for vehicles wi!
> >  thout cassette players.  Haven't tried it in the
> > car yet.  That's this weekend.  :-)
> > Scooter

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May  4 10:04:53 2004
Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 09:04:41 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
From: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
Reply-To: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
To: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX, DC-CYCLES@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: XM Radio on the bike?



-----Original Message-----
From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX


Mark,

I picked up a set of in helmet speakers from www.clearercom.com at the bike show a couple months ago.  They fit in the helmet really nice.  You can't even tell they're there unless your looking.  The MP3 player powered them pretty good for volume but, the XM radio doesn't technically have a volume control.  You're supposed to use the volume of your car radio.  Anyway, the cable I bought from Radio Shack, http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F007%5F002%5F003%5F010&product%5Fid=42%2D2559  (Gold-Plated Volume Control Cable for Stereo Headphones) really works well so far on the XM radio.  Just gotta try it on the bike now.  :-)

Scooter


-------------

Great minds think alike.  :)  I've got the clearer.com speakers and the Radio Shack inline volume control.  I still think you're going to need the Boosteroo to hear the music at speed.  I usually have the volume control at its highest setting on the highway, and turned down in stop and go stuff.



Paul in DC
95 VFR - 96 KLR650 - www.wilsonline.org

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May  4 10:25:45 2004
Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 07:25:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: XM Radio on the bike?
To: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>, ScooterFZR@XXXXXX,
   DC-CYCLES@XXXXXX

I never found the inhelmet speakers loud enough so I
use the Koss ear plugs/phones.




--- Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX> wrote:
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
>
>
> Mark,
>
> I picked up a set of in helmet speakers from
> www.clearercom.com at the bike show a couple months
> ago.  They fit in the helmet really nice.  You can't
> even tell they're there unless your looking.  The
> MP3 player powered them pretty good for volume but,
> the XM radio doesn't technically have a volume
> control.  You're supposed to use the volume of your
> car radio.  Anyway, the cable I bought from Radio
> Shack,
>
http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F007%5F002%5F003%5F010&product%5Fid=42%2D2559
>  (Gold-Plated Volume Control Cable for Stereo
> Headphones) really works well so far on the XM
> radio.  Just gotta try it on the bike now.  :-)
>
> Scooter
>
>
> -------------
>
> Great minds think alike.  :)  I've got the
> clearer.com speakers and the Radio Shack inline
> volume control.  I still think you're going to need
> the Boosteroo to hear the music at speed.  I usually
> have the volume control at its highest setting on
> the highway, and turned down in stop and go stuff.
>
>
>
> Paul in DC
> 95 VFR - 96 KLR650 - www.wilsonline.org
>





__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May  4 10:35:52 2004
Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 10:35:41 -0400
From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
To: DC-CYCLES@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: XM Radio on the bike?
X-AOL-IP: 65.86.98.162

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind.  :-)

Scooter

In a message dated 5/4/2004 10:04:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, viffermaniac@XXXXXX writes:

>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
>
>
> Mark,
>
> I picked up a set of in helmet speakers from www.clearercom.com at the bike show a couple months ago.  They fit in the helmet really nice.  You can't even tell they're there unless your looking.   The MP3 player powered them pretty good for volume but, the XM radio doesn't technically have a volume control.  You're supposed to use the volume of your car radio.  Anyway, the cable I bought from Radio Shack, http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F007%5F002%5F003%5F010&product%5Fid=42%2D2559   (Gold-Plated Volume Control Cable for Stereo Headphones) really works well so far on the XM radio.  Just gotta try it on the bike now.  :-)
>
> Scooter
>
>
> -------------
>
> Great minds think alike.  :)  I've got the clearer.com speakers and the Radio Shack inline volume control.  I still think you're going to need the Boosteroo to hear the music at speed.  I usually have the volume control at its highest setting
> on the highway, and turned down in stop and go stuff.
>
>
>
> Paul in DC
> 95 VFR - 96 KLR650 - www.wilsonline.org

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May  4 10:39:55 2004
Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 10:39:41 -0400
From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
To: DC-CYCLES@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: XM Radio on the bike?
X-AOL-IP: 65.86.98.162

I have a set of those also.  They have just been bugging the hell out of me lately.  They either come out when I put on my helmet or shift afterwards and start hitting in the wrong places.  Having to take them out and play with them to get them in right everytime you stop and take off your helmet is a pain.  The speakers from Clearercom velcro in and the cable & connector tuck in out of site.  We'll see how well they do on the bike with just the inline volume control and then the Boosteroo.  :-)

Scooter

In a message dated 5/4/2004 10:25:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time, markkitchell@XXXXXX writes:

>
>
> I never found the inhelmet speakers loud enough so I
> use the Koss ear plugs/phones.
>
>
>
>
> --- Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX> wrote:
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
> >
> >
> > Mark,
> >
> > I picked up a set of in helmet speakers from
> > www.clearercom.com at the bike show a couple months
> > ago.  They fit in the helmet really nice.  You can't
> > even tell they're there unless your looking.  The
> > MP3 player powered them pretty good for volume but,
> > the XM radio doesn't technically have a volume
> > control.  You're supposed to use the volume of your
> > car radio.  Anyway, the cable I bought from Radio
> > Shack,
> >
> http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F007%5F002%5F003%5F010&product%5Fid=42%2D
> 2559
> >  (Gold-Plated Volume Control Cable for Stereo
> > Headphones) really works well so far on the XM
> > radio.  Just gotta try it on the bike now.  :-)
> >
> > Scooter
> >
> >
> > -------------
> >
> > Great minds think alike.  :)  I've got the
> > clearer.com speakers and the Radio Shack inline
> > volume control.  I still think you're going to need
> > the Boosteroo to hear the music at speed.  I usually
> > have the volume control at its highest setting on
> > the highway, and turned down in stop and go stuff.
> >
> >
> >
> > Paul in DC
> > 95 VFR - 96 KLR650 - www.wilsonline.org
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
> http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May  4 10:47:32 2004
Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 07:47:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: XM Radio on the bike?
To: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX, DC-CYCLES@XXXXXX

They are a pain but the only way I can hear music on
the bike.  I modified them a bit by cutting off about
1/3rd of the plastic tube that goes in your ear.  Much
less painful that way.


--- ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote:
> I have a set of those also.  They have just been
> bugging the hell out of me lately.  They either come
> out when I put on my helmet or shift afterwards and
> start hitting in the wrong places.  Having to take
> them out and play with them to get them in right
> everytime you stop and take off your helmet is a
> pain.  The speakers from Clearercom velcro in and
> the cable & connector tuck in out of site.  We'll
> see how well they do on the bike with just the
> inline volume control and then the Boosteroo.  :-)
>
> Scooter
>
> In a message dated 5/4/2004 10:25:37 AM Eastern
> Daylight Time, markkitchell@XXXXXX writes:
>
> >
> >
> > I never found the inhelmet speakers loud enough so
> I
> > use the Koss ear plugs/phones.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
> > >
> > >
> > > Mark,
> > >
> > > I picked up a set of in helmet speakers from
> > > www.clearercom.com at the bike show a couple
> months
> > > ago.  They fit in the helmet really nice.  You
> can't
> > > even tell they're there unless your looking.
> The
> > > MP3 player powered them pretty good for volume
> but,
> > > the XM radio doesn't technically have a volume
> > > control.  You're supposed to use the volume of
> your
> > > car radio.  Anyway, the cable I bought from
> Radio
> > > Shack,
> > >
> >
>
http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F007%5F002%5F003%5F010&product%5Fid=42%2D
> > 2559
> > >  (Gold-Plated Volume Control Cable for Stereo
> > > Headphones) really works well so far on the XM
> > > radio.  Just gotta try it on the bike now.  :-)
> > >
> > > Scooter
> > >
> > >
> > > -------------
> > >
> > > Great minds think alike.  :)  I've got the
> > > clearer.com speakers and the Radio Shack inline
> > > volume control.  I still think you're going to
> need
> > > the Boosteroo to hear the music at speed.  I
> usually
> > > have the volume control at its highest setting
> on
> > > the highway, and turned down in stop and go
> stuff.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Paul in DC
> > > 95 VFR - 96 KLR650 - www.wilsonline.org
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
> >
> http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
>





__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May  4 10:55:30 2004
From: Michael Lynch <MLynch@XXXXXX>
To: DC-CYCLES@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: XM Radio on the bike?
Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 10:59:28 -0400

For speakers in the helmet, I find that buying a good quality set of
headphones works best.  Rip the band off, pull back the helmet liner, hollow
out just a small hole for the speaker to recess in the helmet (usually there
already for your ears to fit in), glue the speakers in, and reattach the
liner.  Clean install, they never move, they sound good, etc.  Done it with
the last 2 helmets, and love it.  Can't turn the ipod all the way up because
it's TOO loud.  YMMV.

Mike

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	ScooterFZR@XXXXXX [SMTP:ScooterFZR@XXXXXX]
> Sent:	Tuesday, May 04, 2004 10:40 AM
> To:	DC-CYCLES@XXXXXX
> Subject:	Re: XM Radio on the bike?
>
> I have a set of those also.  They have just been bugging the hell out of
> me lately.  They either come out when I put on my helmet or shift
> afterwards and start hitting in the wrong places.  Having to take them out
> and play with them to get them in right everytime you stop and take off
> your helmet is a pain.  The speakers from Clearercom velcro in and the
> cable & connector tuck in out of site.  We'll see how well they do on the
> bike with just the inline volume control and then the Boosteroo.  :-)
>
> Scooter
>
> In a message dated 5/4/2004 10:25:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> markkitchell@XXXXXX writes:
>
> >
> >
> > I never found the inhelmet speakers loud enough so I
> > use the Koss ear plugs/phones.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
> > >
> > >
> > > Mark,
> > >
> > > I picked up a set of in helmet speakers from
> > > www.clearercom.com at the bike show a couple months
> > > ago.  They fit in the helmet really nice.  You can't
> > > even tell they're there unless your looking.  The
> > > MP3 player powered them pretty good for volume but,
> > > the XM radio doesn't technically have a volume
> > > control.  You're supposed to use the volume of your
> > > car radio.  Anyway, the cable I bought from Radio
> > > Shack,
> > >
> >
> http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=
> CTLG%5F007%5F002%5F003%5F010&product%5Fid=42%2D
> > 2559
> > >  (Gold-Plated Volume Control Cable for Stereo
> > > Headphones) really works well so far on the XM
> > > radio.  Just gotta try it on the bike now.  :-)
> > >
> > > Scooter
> > >
> > >
> > > -------------
> > >
> > > Great minds think alike.  :)  I've got the
> > > clearer.com speakers and the Radio Shack inline
> > > volume control.  I still think you're going to need
> > > the Boosteroo to hear the music at speed.  I usually
> > > have the volume control at its highest setting on
> > > the highway, and turned down in stop and go stuff.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Paul in DC
> > > 95 VFR - 96 KLR650 - www.wilsonline.org
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
> > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May  4 11:03:42 2004
Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 11:03:33 -0400
From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
To: DC-CYCLES@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: XM Radio on the bike?
X-AOL-IP: 65.86.98.162

The speakers I bought aren't really the problem.  They are good quality and so far work great with my MP3 player.  It's the fact that teh XM unit wasn't built for being used without being plugged into a car radio or home stereo to supply the volume.  At it's highest setting, it still isn't very loud.  That's why the inline cable works so well with it.  It is supplying the external volume control that the receiver needs.

Scooter

In a message dated 5/4/2004 10:59:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time, MLynch@XXXXXX writes:

>
>
> For speakers in the helmet, I find that buying a good quality set of
> headphones works best.  Rip the band off, pull back the helmet liner, hollow
> out just a small hole for the speaker to recess in the helmet (usually there
> already for your ears to fit in), glue the speakers in, and reattach the
> liner.  Clean install, they never move, they sound good, etc.  Done it with
> the last 2 helmets, and love it.  Can't turn the ipod all the way up because
> it's TOO loud.  YMMV.
>
> Mike
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX [SMTP:ScooterFZR@XXXXXX]
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 10:40 AM
> > To:   DC-CYCLES@XXXXXX
> > Subject:  Re: XM Radio on the bike?
> >
> > I have a set of those also.  They have just been bugging the hell out of
> > me lately.  They either come out when I put on my helmet or shift
> > afterwards and start hitting in the wrong places.  Having to take them out
> > and play with them to get them in right everytime you stop and take off
> > your helmet is a pain.  The speakers from Clearercom velcro in and the
> > cable & connector tuck in out of site.  We'll see how well they do on the
> > bike with just the inline volume control and then the Boosteroo.  :-)
> >
> > Scooter
> >
> > In a message dated 5/4/2004 10:25:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> > markkitchell@XXXXXX writes:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > I never found the inhelmet speakers loud enough so I
> > > use the Koss ear plugs/phones.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Mark,
> > > >
> > > > I picked up a set of in helmet speakers from
> > > > www.clearercom.com at the bike show a couple months
> > > > ago.  They fit in the helmet really nice.  You can't
> > > > even tell they're there unless your looking.  The
> > > > MP3 player powered them pretty good for volume but,
> > > > the XM radio doesn't technically have a volume
> > > > control.  You're supposed to use the volume of your
> > > > car radio.  Anyway, the cable I bought from Radio
> > > > Shack,
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=
> > CTLG%5F007%5F002%5F003%5F010&product%5Fid=42%2D
> > > 2559
> > > >  (Gold-Plated Volume Control Cable for Stereo
> > > > Headphones) really works well so far on the XM
> > > > radio.  Just gotta try it on the bike now.  :-)
> > > >
> > > > Scooter
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -------------
> > > >
> > > > Great minds think alike.  :)  I've got the
> > > > clearer.com speakers and the Radio Shack inline
> > > > volume control.  I still think you're going to need
> > > > the Boosteroo to hear the music at speed.  I usually
> > > > have the volume control at its highest setting on
> > > > the highway, and turned down in stop and go stuff.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Paul in DC
> > > > 95 VFR - 96 KLR650 - www.wilsonline.org
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
> > > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May  4 11:50:03 2004
From: "Sean Steele" <sean@XXXXXX>
To: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 11:49:48 -0400
Subject: Comagination brake flasher

Any lister(s) installed one of these brake flashers before:
http://www.comagination.com/bflasher.htm

If so, whatchya think?

-Sean
Wash, DC
'92 Seca II

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May  4 12:44:50 2004
Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 12:44:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: dan <dan@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Koss Plugs (was Re: XM Radio on the bike?)

On Tue, 4 May 2004, Mark Kitchell wrote:

> They are a pain but the only way I can hear music on
> the bike.  I modified them a bit by cutting off about
> 1/3rd of the plastic tube that goes in your ear.  Much
> less painful that way.
>

Have you guys tried using generic ear plugs with the Koss Plugs?  The foam
crap that comes with them SUCKS.  Check out :

http://www.headwize.com/projects/cmoy4_prj.htm

Good info on modifying them, for me they work 100% better this way.

Dan

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May  4 13:11:35 2004
Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 12:31:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: dan <dan@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Carb sync tool

On Mon, 3 May 2004, Daniel H. Brown wrote:

>
> You can get a "twinmax" electronic synchronizer for $77
>
> http://tinyurl.com/2lnx7
>

It looks interesting, but its a Frenchie product...blah.  These seem to
get good reviews too:

http://www.carbtune.com/carbpric.html

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May  4 13:31:26 2004
Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 10:31:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: RE Mileage Bragging Rights
To: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX

do scooter riders have a wave policy?  i rarely get a
return wave from those pitiful little fucksticks.



--- Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Hmmm, I reckon the real riders are the ones who don't
> have a deathgrip on
> the bars and can manage to wave back.  ;-)
>
> Paul in DC
> 95 VFR - 96 KLR650 - www.wilsonline.org
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Doug Allis" <dhallis@XXXXXX>
>
>
>
> > You guys are really long distance motorcycle WIMPS!
> 1200 miles, 2,400
> miles
> > or 5,000 miles a year?  Don't talk to me about being a
> real rider until
> you
> > approach 10,000 miles a year.  ....
>





__________________________________
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Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May  4 13:45:22 2004
From: "Sean Steele" <sean@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 13:45:08 -0400
Subject: Re: RE Mileage Bragging Rights

I'd rather aim my fury at the SUVs, personally, but if we must pick on
scooter riders, my thought is simple: why would they wave?  If I rode
around on a lawnmower with a seat I wouldn't wave to anyone either...

-Sean

Tom Gimer wrote:

> do scooter riders have a wave policy?  i rarely get a
> return wave from those pitiful little fucksticks.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May  4 14:11:16 2004
From: Bob Meyer <rmeyer9@XXXXXX>
Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX
To: "Sean Steele" <sean@XXXXXX>, "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Comagination brake flasher
Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 14:11:07 -0400

I've not used the brake flasher, but I do have a comagination headlight modulator.  I can report that it seems to be high quality, and has worked reliably for the past year.

Bob Meyer

>
> From: "Sean Steele" <sean@XXXXXX>
> Date: 2004/05/04 Tue AM 11:49:48 EDT
> To: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
> Subject: Comagination brake flasher
>
> Any lister(s) installed one of these brake flashers before:
> http://www.comagination.com/bflasher.htm
>
> If so, whatchya think?
>
> -Sean
> Wash, DC
> '92 Seca II
>
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May  4 14:13:08 2004
From: Bob Meyer <rmeyer9@XXXXXX>
Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX
To: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Dulles Expo Bike Show?
Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 14:13:00 -0400

If it's not on the schedule, I think you've answered your own question, eh?

Bob Meyer
>
> From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
> Date: 2004/05/04 Tue AM 09:38:06 EDT
> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> Subject: Dulles Expo Bike Show?
>
> Are they doing another bike show at Dulles Expo this year?  I can't find
> one on the schedule.  Last year was much better than the one downtown or
> even in Baltimore.
>
> http://www.dullesexpo.com/main/main.htm
>
>
> ___________________________________________
>      Mike Troutman
>          http://www.troutman.org/vfr
>          1997 Honda VFR 750
>             AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/
>             NMA http://www.motorists.org
>
>

Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157
'01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa"
'92 ST1100, "red STag"
'02 919, "still looking for a name"

A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers....

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May  4 14:18:13 2004
Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 14:18:10 -0400
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Dulles Expo Bike Show?

At 02:13 PM 5/4/2004, Bob Meyer wrote:
>If it's not on the schedule, I think you've answered your own question, eh?

I never would have expected a smart ass response on DC Cycles....

If they aren't doing it again this summer, I can't see why not.  They were
packed all weekend.  Any other local shows anyone is planning to attend en
masse?



___________________________________________
     Mike Troutman
         http://www.troutman.org/vfr
         1997 Honda VFR 750
            AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/
            NMA http://www.motorists.org

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May  4 14:25:50 2004
From: "Gary Foreman" <lists@XXXXXX>
To: "'dan'" <dan@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Carb sync tool
Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 14:28:35 -0400

I have a CarbTune.  Excellent!

-----Original Message-----
From: dan [mailto:dan@XXXXXX]
Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 12:32 PM
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Carb sync tool

On Mon, 3 May 2004, Daniel H. Brown wrote:

>
> You can get a "twinmax" electronic synchronizer for $77
>
> http://tinyurl.com/2lnx7
>

It looks interesting, but its a Frenchie product...blah.  These seem to get
good reviews too:

http://www.carbtune.com/carbpric.html




From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May  4 14:31:12 2004
Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 14:28:19 -0400
From: Skip <skip@XXXXXX>
CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: RE Mileage Bragging Rights

I had one give me a beep on the horn, so I returned the beep.

--skip


Sean Steele wrote:
>
> I'd rather aim my fury at the SUVs, personally, but if we must pick on
> scooter riders, my thought is simple: why would they wave?  If I rode
> around on a lawnmower with a seat I wouldn't wave to anyone either...
>
> -Sean
>
> Tom Gimer wrote:
>
> > do scooter riders have a wave policy?  i rarely get a
> > return wave from those pitiful little fucksticks.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May  4 14:32:08 2004
Reply-To: "louis-mc" <louis-mc@XXXXXX>
From: "louis-mc" <louis-mc@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Re: Dulles Expo Bike Show?
Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 14:32:41 -0400

   >  If they aren't doing it again this summer, I can't see why not.  They were
   >  packed all weekend.  Any other local shows anyone is planning to attend en
   >  masse?

If you mean by the same company, the Cycle World Expo shows, they are pretty much done for the year.  I agree that their show in Dulles was much better than their show in DC.  They had much more room, and the demos were great.   Their new calendar isn't up yet.  Hopefully it will be soon.  Maybe they'll learn from their mistake?

But then again, from one of the big dealers that I talked with, the Dulles show really didn't have high numbers compared to other motorcycle shows.  So they make scrap DC altogether.  I hope not, but of course they want to make money off the whole thing.  I also spoke to one of the smaller vendors.  She said they lost money that weekend, they got a lot of people looking, but not too many buying.  She likes the Harley shows better.  But then again, I guess it depends on your mercandise and the particular audiance for the show.

Louis

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May  4 14:42:57 2004
From: "rich hall" <richallmc@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Dulles Expo Bike Show?
Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 14:23:54 -0400

Are you referring to the "International Motorcycle Show" or whatever
sponsored by Cycle World & Toyota, which was at Dulles Expo Center last yr
in March, that was at the DC Conv Center this past Jan?  If so it moved to
DC and was in Jan.  Otherwise I don't know.

>From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
>To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
>Subject: Re: Dulles Expo Bike Show?
>Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 14:18:10 -0400
>
>At 02:13 PM 5/4/2004, Bob Meyer wrote:
>>If it's not on the schedule, I think you've answered your own question,
>>eh?
>
>I never would have expected a smart ass response on DC Cycles....
>
>If they aren't doing it again this summer, I can't see why not.  They were
>packed all weekend.  Any other local shows anyone is planning to attend en
>masse?
>
>
>
>___________________________________________
>     Mike Troutman
>         http://www.troutman.org/vfr
>         1997 Honda VFR 750
>            AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/
>            NMA http://www.motorists.org
>

_________________________________________________________________
FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar )B– get it now!
http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May  4 15:04:11 2004
From: "Perry Coleman" <perrycoleman@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: RE Mileage Bragging Rights
Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 14:52:55 -0400

Tom,

Don't bother. It seems to me that Scooter riders (as opposed to riders named
Scooter) don't wave at Motorcycle riders and vice versa. I've sort of,
hesitantly, waved at a few, but given up since they never wave back. I just
don't think they get it...

Perry

>From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
>To: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
>Subject: Re: RE Mileage Bragging Rights
>Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 10:31:16 -0700 (PDT)
>
>do scooter riders have a wave policy?  i rarely get a
>return wave from those pitiful little fucksticks.
>
>
>
>--- Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > Hmmm, I reckon the real riders are the ones who don't
> > have a deathgrip on
> > the bars and can manage to wave back.  ;-)
> >
> > Paul in DC
> > 95 VFR - 96 KLR650 - www.wilsonline.org
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Doug Allis" <dhallis@XXXXXX>
> >
> >
> >
> > > You guys are really long distance motorcycle WIMPS!
> > 1200 miles, 2,400
> > miles
> > > or 5,000 miles a year?  Don't talk to me about being a
> > real rider until
> > you
> > > approach 10,000 miles a year.  ....
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>__________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
>http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
>

_________________________________________________________________
Getting married? Find tips, tools and the latest trends at MSN Life Events.
http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=married

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May  4 15:05:44 2004
Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 15:05:35 -0400
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Re: Dulles Expo Bike Show?

At 02:30 PM 5/4/2004, louis-mc wrote:
>If you mean by the same company, the Cycle World Expo shows, they are
>pretty much done for the year. I agree that their show in Dulles was much
>better than their show in DC. They had much more room, and the demos were
>great. Their new calendar isn't up yet. Hopefully it will be soon. Maybe
>they'll learn from their mistake?

I didn't realize it was the same show :-(

Hopefully they come back to Dulles again in the future.



___________________________________________
     Mike Troutman
         http://www.troutman.org/vfr
         1997 Honda VFR 750
            AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/
            NMA http://www.motorists.org

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May  4 15:17:08 2004
Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 15:16:59 -0400
From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: RE Mileage Bragging Rights
X-AOL-IP: 65.86.98.162

Thanks for the clarification Perry.  I sorta wave at scooter riders every once in a while but, then I give up.

Scooter

In a message dated 5/4/2004 2:52:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, perrycoleman@XXXXXX writes:

>
>
> Tom,
>
> Don't bother. It seems to me that Scooter riders (as opposed to riders named
> Scooter) don't wave at Motorcycle riders and vice versa. I've sort of,
> hesitantly, waved at a few, but given up since they never wave back. I just
> don't think they get it...
>
> Perry
>
> >From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
> >To: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> >Subject: Re: RE Mileage Bragging Rights
> >Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 10:31:16 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> >do scooter riders have a wave policy?  i rarely get a
> >return wave from those pitiful little fucksticks.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May  4 15:36:34 2004
Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 12:36:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: OT - Non-moto accident
To: "Verde, Robert" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX

i am sorry to be the bearer of bad news.  the shoe, a 2002
pennyloafer, was pronounced dead at the scene.  i found the
full writeup in the fashion section of saturday's post.



--- "Verde, Robert" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX> wrote:
> I apologize for the waste of bandwidth, but something's
> been bugging me...  ;-)
>
> Last Thursday, on my way home through Tyson's Corner
> about 6:30 PM, there was an extensive traffic back-up on
> the west-bound side of Rt. 7 right at Tyson's Corners,
> opposite the Borders store.  Drawing near, I could see
> that traffic was routed off of Leesburg Pike and than
> back on a block later, apparently to avoid the scene of a
> traffic accident.  There was a car with a damaged
> windshield, and some distance away a police officer was
> spraypainting around a single shoe in the road.
>
> Grim scene (reminded me of the list discussion of the
> lane-splitting FL motorcyclist), but the reason I brought
> it up is that I have been unable to find a single news
> reference to this event online.  I don't take the WP, so
> it might have been mentioned therein, but if anyone could
> suggest alternative places to check, I'd appreciate it.
> It just seems odd that an accident like this would not
> make any news outlets, but maybe that's my closet
> idealism speaking!
>
> Thanks!
>
> Robert Verde
>





__________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May  4 15:57:43 2004
Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 15:57:38 -0400
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: OT - Non-moto accident

when are the services?  I have a wing tip that knew her.

At 03:36 PM 5/4/2004, you wrote:
>i am sorry to be the bearer of bad news.  the shoe, a 2002
>pennyloafer, was pronounced dead at the scene.  i found the
>full writeup in the fashion section of saturday's post.


___________________________________________
     Mike Troutman
         http://www.troutman.org/vfr
         1997 Honda VFR 750
            AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/
            NMA http://www.motorists.org

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May  4 16:00:09 2004
Subject: RE: OT - Non-moto accident
Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 15:59:57 -0400
From: "Verde, Robert" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>
To: "Tom Gimer" <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Cc: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Thanks to the tip from Dave Yates I found the police report on the Fairfax County site: http://www.co.fairfax.va.us/ps/police/reports/news.htm (Fatal pedestrian crash in Tyson's Corner area).

No mention of shoes.


-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Gimer [mailto:t_gimer@XXXXXX]
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 3:36 PM
To: Verde, Robert; dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: OT - Non-moto accident


i am sorry to be the bearer of bad news.  the shoe, a 2002
pennyloafer, was pronounced dead at the scene.  i found the
full writeup in the fashion section of saturday's post.


From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May  4 16:14:56 2004
From: bernescut@XXXXXX
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: OT - Non-moto accident
Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 16:14:24 -0400

Obviously you need to do some sole searching.
Cedric Bernescut
2000 CBR600F4
Annandale, VA

"This email contains a minimum of 50% post-consumer electrons."



-----Original Message-----
From: Troutman [mailto:mike@XXXXXX]
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 3:58 PM
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: OT - Non-moto accident


when are the services?  I have a wing tip that knew her.

At 03:36 PM 5/4/2004, you wrote:
>i am sorry to be the bearer of bad news.  the shoe, a 2002
>pennyloafer, was pronounced dead at the scene.  i found the
>full writeup in the fashion section of saturday's post.


___________________________________________
     Mike Troutman
         http://www.troutman.org/vfr
         1997 Honda VFR 750
            AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/
            NMA http://www.motorists.org

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May  4 16:16:48 2004
From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 16:16:33 EDT
Subject: Re: OT - Non-moto accident
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

In a message dated 5/4/2004 3:36:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
t_gimer@XXXXXX writes:

> i am sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

Yea. And the cola coming out of my nose was bad news also..........

John.
PenguinBiker@XXXXXX

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May  4 16:50:03 2004
Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 13:49:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" <pltrgyst@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: OT - Non-moto accident
To: bernescut@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX

You heel. Arch guys like you never last long before getting the boot from this
group. Some day you'll be tapped out, on your uppers, and someone will give you a
thorough tongue lacing. Better polish your act and brush up on your manners.

-- Larry


--- bernescut@XXXXXX wrote:

Obviously you need to do some sole searching.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Troutman [mailto:mike@XXXXXX]
>
> when are the services?  I have a wing tip that knew her.
>
> >i am sorry to be the bearer of bad news.  the shoe, a 2002
> >pennyloafer, was pronounced dead at the scene.  i found the
> >full writeup in the fashion section of saturday's post.





__________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May  4 16:53:33 2004
From: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" <Silvera@XXXXXX>
To: "'pltrgyst@XXXXXX'" <pltrgyst@XXXXXX>, bernescut@XXXXXX,
   dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: OT - Non-moto accident
Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 16:53:17 -0400

You guys are corny. I couldn't resist.

-----Original Message-----
From: pltrgyst@XXXXXX [mailto:pltrgyst@XXXXXX]
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 4:50 PM
To: bernescut@XXXXXX; dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: OT - Non-moto accident

You heel. Arch guys like you never last long before getting the boot from
this
group. Some day you'll be tapped out, on your uppers, and someone will give
you a
thorough tongue lacing. Better polish your act and brush up on your manners.

-- Larry


--- bernescut@XXXXXX wrote:

Obviously you need to do some sole searching.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Troutman [mailto:mike@XXXXXX]
>
> when are the services?  I have a wing tip that knew her.
>
> >i am sorry to be the bearer of bad news.  the shoe, a 2002
> >pennyloafer, was pronounced dead at the scene.  i found the
> >full writeup in the fashion section of saturday's post.





__________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May  4 16:58:04 2004
Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 13:57:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Hugh Caldwell <hughtwg@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: RE Mileage Bragging Rights
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

It's that whole Mods vs Rockers thing don't you know.

Hugh

--- Perry Coleman <perrycoleman@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Tom,
>
> Don't bother. It seems to me that Scooter riders (as opposed to riders named
> Scooter) don't wave at Motorcycle riders and vice versa. I've sort of,
> hesitantly, waved at a few, but given up since they never wave back. I just
> don't think they get it...
>
> Perry
>


=====
Hugh Caldwell
http://www.twowheelsgood.net




__________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May  4 17:02:06 2004
Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 14:01:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: Hugh Caldwell <hughtwg@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: OT - Non-moto accident
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

Ahhhh, so that's how The Short Happy Life of the Brown Oxford ends.

Hugh

--- Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX> wrote:
> i am sorry to be the bearer of bad news.  the shoe, a 2002
> pennyloafer, was pronounced dead at the scene.  i found the
> full writeup in the fashion section of saturday's post.
>
>
>


=====
Hugh Caldwell
http://www.twowheelsgood.net




__________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May  4 17:54:59 2004
From: "Perry Coleman" <perrycoleman@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: RE Mileage Bragging Rights
Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 17:54:48 -0400

Yeah, I was thinking about "Quadrophenia" the whole time...

Perry

>From: Hugh Caldwell <hughtwg@XXXXXX>
>To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
>Subject: Re: RE Mileage Bragging Rights
>Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 13:57:41 -0700 (PDT)
>
>It's that whole Mods vs Rockers thing don't you know.
>
>Hugh
>
>--- Perry Coleman <perrycoleman@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > Tom,
> >
> > Don't bother. It seems to me that Scooter riders (as opposed to riders
>named
> > Scooter) don't wave at Motorcycle riders and vice versa. I've sort of,
> > hesitantly, waved at a few, but given up since they never wave back. I
>just
> > don't think they get it...
> >
> > Perry
> >
>
>
>=====
>Hugh Caldwell
>http://www.twowheelsgood.net
>
>
>
>
>__________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
>http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
>

_________________________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May  4 21:07:47 2004
From: "Rob Sharp" <rob@XXXXXX>
To: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>, Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>,
   dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: RE Mileage Bragging Rights
Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 21:09:06 -0400

Never got a wave from a scooter rider.
Maybe it's cause I was passing them so fast :-p

Rob

On Tue, 4 May 2004 10:31:16 -0700 (PDT), Tom Gimer wrote
> do scooter riders have a wave policy?  i rarely get a
> return wave from those pitiful little fucksticks.
>
> --- Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > Hmmm, I reckon the real riders are the ones who don't
> > have a deathgrip on
> > the bars and can manage to wave back.  ;-)
> >
> > Paul in DC
> > 95 VFR - 96 KLR650 - www.wilsonline.org
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Doug Allis" <dhallis@XXXXXX>
> >
> >
> >
> > > You guys are really long distance motorcycle WIMPS!
> > 1200 miles, 2,400
> > miles
> > > or 5,000 miles a year?  Don't talk to me about being a
> > real rider until
> > you
> > > approach 10,000 miles a year.  ....
> >
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
> http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover


--
Rob Sharp
1996 Honda VFR 750
2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme
SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA
Network Security Engineer

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May  4 22:27:37 2004
Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 22:27:19 -0400
From: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>
To: Glenn Dysart <glenn_dysart@XXXXXX>
CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: RE Mileage Bragging Rights

Glenn Dysart wrote:

> And retired to boot, shame on you!
>
> Glenn
>

Alas, all good things have to come to an end.

I'm a working stiff again, just started up a
couple weeks ago.  I've got a ridiculously
pleasant commute into Manassas now, only 15 miles
each way, takes a little over 20 minutes.

Good news is, part of the reason for going back
to work is that I desperately want a Garage-mahal
out back for the bikes.  I've still gotta look into
all the permits & stuff first, but I think it's
do-able.  2 bays, 2 floors, 2 cool.  :)

Horkster
--
Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)

Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX '98 Concours - BugSlayer
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth      '99 Concours - Grape Nehi
CM #001 NRA IBA COG                  '82 GS850G - Neat old bike

The Mason Dixon 20-20 Endurance Rally:  The Games People Play
Come join us in 2004:   http://www.masondixon20-20.org

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May  4 22:31:04 2004
From: "Gary Foreman" <lists@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Sunday's Race Photos from Summit Point
Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 22:33:50 -0400

Enjoy!


http://www.2wheeljunkie.com/photos/racephotos/040502/

Gary Foreman


From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May  5 08:39:53 2004
Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 08:39:48 -0400
From: Dave Yates <Dave@XXXXXX>
Subject: DUI killer skates on most serious charge
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

From today's Times:

DUI driver eludes charge of homicide



ELLICOTT CITY, Md. (AP) )B— An Ellicott City woman who was
legally drunk when she rear-ended a motorcycle last year,
killing its rider, faces no more than a year in prison after
paying a $275 ticket before she could be charged with
vehicular homicide.
    In essence, Susan Elizabeth Williams, 35, pleaded guilty
to a lesser charge before a more serious one could be
leveled.

    "She kind of found a crack in the system," State's
Attorney Timothy J. McCrone said.
    As a result, police issued a memo advising officers not
to issue tickets for negligent driving in drunken-driving
cases involving injuries until the case is reviewed.
    Miss Williams had faced several charges, including
driving while intoxicated and vehicular homicide, in the
death of Dennis Jerry Sullivan, 42, a mechanic and father of
two.
    Miss Williams had just left work at a Burger King on
Baltimore National Pike when she crashed into Mr. Sullivan.
Officers tested her on the scene, decided she was intoxicated
and arrested her, police spokesman Richard Malcolm said.
    But because Mr. Sullivan did not appear critically
injured )B— although he was taken to a hospital complaining of
back injuries )B— the investigating officer did not call the
traffic investigation division, which would have been the
routine in accidents involving serious injuries, Mr. Malcolm
said.
    The officer charged Miss Williams with several citations
related to the accident, including negligent driving.
    Mr. Sullivan died of internal injuries days later, and
prosecutors filed papers to drop the lesser counts.
    In the meantime, Miss Williams had paid the $275 fine for
negligent driving.
    A Circuit Court judge agreed and dropped the vehicular
homicide charge against Miss Williams on April 1. On Monday,
she pleaded not guilty to driving under the influence but
waived her right to a trial, and Judge Dennis Sweeney found
her guilty.
    Sentencing was set for July 7.

Dave Yates

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May  5 09:12:48 2004
From: "John White" <kokopellian@XXXXXX>
To: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: DUI killer skates on most serious charge
Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 09:12:42 -0400
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 5 May 2004 09:12:42 -0400

That's f**ked up!  Wow!  She has to pay some how.  The family should file a
wrongful death suit against her.  Tap into her assets and insurance or
something.  I know that won't bring him back, but to let her just walk away
like that....


----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Yates" <Dave@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 8:39 AM
Subject: DUI killer skates on most serious charge


> From today's Times:
>
> DUI driver eludes charge of homicide
>
>
>
> ELLICOTT CITY, Md. (AP) )B— An Ellicott City woman who was
> legally drunk when she rear-ended a motorcycle last year,
> killing its rider, faces no more than a year in prison after
> paying a $275 ticket before she could be charged with
> vehicular homicide.
>     In essence, Susan Elizabeth Williams, 35, pleaded guilty
> to a lesser charge before a more serious one could be
> leveled.
>
>     "She kind of found a crack in the system," State's
> Attorney Timothy J. McCrone said.
>     As a result, police issued a memo advising officers not
> to issue tickets for negligent driving in drunken-driving
> cases involving injuries until the case is reviewed.
>     Miss Williams had faced several charges, including
> driving while intoxicated and vehicular homicide, in the
> death of Dennis Jerry Sullivan, 42, a mechanic and father of
> two.
>     Miss Williams had just left work at a Burger King on
> Baltimore National Pike when she crashed into Mr. Sullivan.
> Officers tested her on the scene, decided she was intoxicated
> and arrested her, police spokesman Richard Malcolm said.
>     But because Mr. Sullivan did not appear critically
> injured )B— although he was taken to a hospital complaining of
> back injuries )B— the investigating officer did not call the
> traffic investigation division, which would have been the
> routine in accidents involving serious injuries, Mr. Malcolm
> said.
>     The officer charged Miss Williams with several citations
> related to the accident, including negligent driving.
>     Mr. Sullivan died of internal injuries days later, and
> prosecutors filed papers to drop the lesser counts.
>     In the meantime, Miss Williams had paid the $275 fine for
> negligent driving.
>     A Circuit Court judge agreed and dropped the vehicular
> homicide charge against Miss Williams on April 1. On Monday,
> she pleaded not guilty to driving under the influence but
> waived her right to a trial, and Judge Dennis Sweeney found
> her guilty.
>     Sentencing was set for July 7.
>
> Dave Yates
>
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May  5 09:16:05 2004
From: "Custer, Carl" <Carl.Custer@XXXXXX>
To: "'DCCycles'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Cc: "'dan@XXXXXX'" <dan@XXXXXX>
Subject: camping
Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 09:18:00 -0400

From: dan <>
camping site recomadations?
Looking for a short overnight stay.  About 2-3 hours away from Leesburg
would be good.  Any recommendations?
Dan

In addition to the others
IIRC Boyer W(BG)V has a motorcycle friendly campground.

Plus, because camping season is upon us, here's some snips from 2002:

From:	Custer, Carl
Sent:	Tuesday, September 17, 2002 4:00 PM
Cc:	'Jennthebiker@XXXXXX'
Subject:	camping

<http://www.micapeak.com/WetLeather/pages/camping.html>
<http://www.alpurl.50megs.com/MC_Friendly_Camping.htm>
Start here:
<http://www.willvillebikecamp.com/>
continue:
<http://www.mindspring.com/~barmar/blue%20ridge%20motorcyle%20camp.htm>
<http://www.tailofthedragon.com/accomodations_dealsgap.html>
Also the Cherokee campground in Tellico Plains is bike friendly.
[2004: Alas, the Cherokee was pretty run down last year but was still cheep
and as a bonus the gravel was deeper =8^O. There's a new KOA in Tellico
Plains but sites are in the sun.]

Finally end up here:
<http://www.twowheelsonly.com/>

Lori 13Mar03:
Cherokee Campground
6624 Hwy. 360
Tellico Plains, TN
(423) 253-3094
Cherokee offers tent sites, showers, restrooms.  Dirt cheap.


Other campgrounds are:
KOA
7310 Hwy. 360
(423) 253-2447
KOA has primitive campsites, basic cabins, and RV sites.


Tellico Plains has 2 bed & breakfasts:
Magnolia House
305 Hwy. 165
(423) 253-2022

The Tellico Inn
415 Hunt St.
(423) 253-7600


Cabin rentals in the area are:

Telliquah Resort
152 Rafter Rd.
(423) 253-7360


Tellico Vacation Rentals
113 Scott St.
(423) 253-2253


Caney Creek Village
5854 Hwy 360
(423) 253-3670
(800) 251-9658

I have stayed at these cabins.  They are very nice, the cost is low.
The down side is the driveway - very deep, very loose gravel.  They
are about 4 miles from Cherokee Campground on the same road.


Mountain View Log Cabins
1609 Reliance Rd.
(877) 597-0911


Mountain View Cabin Rentals
Rafter Road
(423) 253-5349

This lady has a 2 bedroom cottage on the Tellico River.  I have
stayed here also.  It is very nice, sleeps up to 6 (I think).


Riverbend Cabin Rentals
Rafter Road
(423) 253-4683

Cabins and cottages on the Tellico River

The nearest hotels are in Madisonville, about 15 miles away.

Motor Inns of America
4740 New Highway 68
Madisonville, TN
(423)442-9045

I've been at this one.  Decent.

There are a couple of others, but I'm not sure I'd even refer my
worst enemy to them.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May  5 09:17:21 2004
Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 06:16:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: DUI killer skates on most serious charge
To: John White <kokopellian@XXXXXX>, DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

I doubt there are too many assets if she worked at
Burger King.  That is SO screwed up.  Even regular DUI
convicts get much more penalties than that.


--- John White <kokopellian@XXXXXX> wrote:
> That's f**ked up!  Wow!  She has to pay some how.
> The family should file a
> wrongful death suit against her.  Tap into her
> assets and insurance or
> something.  I know that won't bring him back, but to
> let her just walk away
> like that....
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave Yates" <Dave@XXXXXX>
> To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 8:39 AM
> Subject: DUI killer skates on most serious charge
>
>
> > From today's Times:
> >
> > DUI driver eludes charge of homicide
> >
> >
> >
> > ELLICOTT CITY, Md. (AP) )B— An Ellicott City woman
> who was
> > legally drunk when she rear-ended a motorcycle
> last year,
> > killing its rider, faces no more than a year in
> prison after
> > paying a $275 ticket before she could be charged
> with
> > vehicular homicide.
> >     In essence, Susan Elizabeth Williams, 35,
> pleaded guilty
> > to a lesser charge before a more serious one could
> be
> > leveled.
> >
> >     "She kind of found a crack in the system,"
> State's
> > Attorney Timothy J. McCrone said.
> >     As a result, police issued a memo advising
> officers not
> > to issue tickets for negligent driving in
> drunken-driving
> > cases involving injuries until the case is
> reviewed.
> >     Miss Williams had faced several charges,
> including
> > driving while intoxicated and vehicular homicide,
> in the
> > death of Dennis Jerry Sullivan, 42, a mechanic and
> father of
> > two.
> >     Miss Williams had just left work at a Burger
> King on
> > Baltimore National Pike when she crashed into Mr.
> Sullivan.
> > Officers tested her on the scene, decided she was
> intoxicated
> > and arrested her, police spokesman Richard Malcolm
> said.
> >     But because Mr. Sullivan did not appear
> critically
> > injured )B— although he was taken to a hospital
> complaining of
> > back injuries )B— the investigating officer did
> not call the
> > traffic investigation division, which would have
> been the
> > routine in accidents involving serious injuries,
> Mr. Malcolm
> > said.
> >     The officer charged Miss Williams with several
> citations
> > related to the accident, including negligent
> driving.
> >     Mr. Sullivan died of internal injuries days
> later, and
> > prosecutors filed papers to drop the lesser
> counts.
> >     In the meantime, Miss Williams had paid the
> $275 fine for
> > negligent driving.
> >     A Circuit Court judge agreed and dropped the
> vehicular
> > homicide charge against Miss Williams on April 1.
> On Monday,
> > she pleaded not guilty to driving under the
> influence but
> > waived her right to a trial, and Judge Dennis
> Sweeney found
> > her guilty.
> >     Sentencing was set for July 7.
> >
> > Dave Yates
> >
> >
>





__________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May  5 09:32:13 2004
From: Richard Westbrook <RichardW@XXXXXX>
To: "DC-Cycles (E-mail)" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Motorcycle Blogs
Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 09:28:44 -0400

Does anyone know of any good web logs about motorcycling?

I have read so much about blogs but have yet to find one worth reading.
Maybe one with some motorcycle content would make it worth while.

-Rich
95 vfr

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May  5 09:44:15 2004
Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 08:43:38 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
From: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
Reply-To: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
To: Richard Westbrook <RichardW@XXXXXX>,
   "DC-Cycles (E-mail)" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Motorcycle Blogs


-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Westbrook <RichardW@XXXXXX>

Does anyone know of any good web logs about motorcycling?

I have read so much about blogs but have yet to find one worth reading.
Maybe one with some motorcycle content would make it worth while.

-Rich
95 vfr

-------------

Not really, that I know about.  Besides the "real riders" --according the Doug Allis Formula ;-) -- might be too busy riding to devote the kind of time it takes to do a really good blog.  I've been keeping a moto journal on-line for about two years now.  Follow the link.










Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org
95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour]

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May  5 09:53:44 2004
Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 09:53:36 -0400
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Aki Damme <adamme1@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: DUI killer skates on most serious charge

At 09:16 AM 5/5/2004, you wrote:
>I doubt there are too many assets if she worked at
>Burger King.  That is SO screwed up.  Even regular DUI
>convicts get much more penalties than that.


It wasn't *her* that screwed up either.  She did what I'm
sure
her lawyer recommended she do.  It was the *system* that
screwed up.

Now let me get this straight, she just left work at BK and
she
was trashed?  Since when did BK have an ABC license?  8-P

-aki

-


From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May  5 10:04:19 2004
Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 07:04:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: DUI killer skates on most serious charge
To: Aki Damme <adamme1@XXXXXX>, DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

You obviously never worked in a restaurant.


--- Aki Damme <adamme1@XXXXXX> wrote:
> At 09:16 AM 5/5/2004, you wrote:
> >I doubt there are too many assets if she worked at
> >Burger King.  That is SO screwed up.  Even regular
> DUI
> >convicts get much more penalties than that.
>
>
> It wasn't *her* that screwed up either.  She did
> what I'm
> sure
> her lawyer recommended she do.  It was the *system*
> that
> screwed up.
>
> Now let me get this straight, she just left work at
> BK and
> she
> was trashed?  Since when did BK have an ABC license?
>  8-P
>
> -aki
>
> -
>
>





__________________________________
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Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May  5 10:07:09 2004
Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 10:07:01 -0400
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Aki Damme <adamme1@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: DUI killer skates on most serious charge

At 10:04 AM 5/5/2004, Mark Kitchell wrote:
>You obviously never worked in a restaurant.


..actually I have but the idea that the BK weenies
are running off to the freezer for a quick slug just
seems weird.



From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May  5 10:35:25 2004
Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 07:35:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: RE Mileage Bragging Rights
To: Hugh Caldwell <hughtwg@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX

which one does the pc800 have?


--- Hugh Caldwell <hughtwg@XXXXXX> wrote:
> It's that whole Mods vs Rockers thing don't you know.
>
> Hugh
>
> --- Perry Coleman <perrycoleman@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > Tom,
> >
> > Don't bother. It seems to me that Scooter riders (as
> opposed to riders named
> > Scooter) don't wave at Motorcycle riders and vice
> versa. I've sort of,
> > hesitantly, waved at a few, but given up since they
> never wave back. I just
> > don't think they get it...
> >
> > Perry





__________________________________
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Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May  5 11:09:20 2004
Cc: "DC-Cycles (E-mail)" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Sunil Doshi <sdoshi@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Motorcycle Blogs
Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 11:09:16 -0400
To: Richard Westbrook <RichardW@XXXXXX>

Here are two that I check every now and then:

http://blogs.motorbiker.org/blogs.nsf
http://neobike.net/

And mine is listed below, but it's never updated (and of little
interest to people other than me!).

On May 5, 2004, at 9:28 AM, Richard Westbrook wrote:

> Does anyone know of any good web logs about motorcycling?
>
> I have read so much about blogs but have yet to find one worth reading.
> Maybe one with some motorcycle content would make it worth while.
>
> -Rich
> 95 vfr
>
>


sunil
http://widepipe.org/ride/
'03 Honda Shadow ACE 750

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May  5 11:23:45 2004
Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 11:23:27 -0400
To: Dave Yates <Dave@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: DUI killer skates on most serious charge

So why can't she be charged with everything she did?  She was guilty of
negligent driving, but she was also DUI and committed manslaughter.  Why
can't she be charged with all of them?

If they can go after the Rodney King cops for multiple charges based on the
same event, why not this woman?

-- Mike B.

At 08:39 AM 5/5/04 -0400, Dave Yates wrote:
>>From today's Times:
>
>DUI driver eludes charge of homicide
>
>ELLICOTT CITY, Md. (AP) )B— An Ellicott City woman who was
>legally drunk when she rear-ended a motorcycle last year,
>killing its rider, faces no more than a year in prison after
>paying a $275 ticket before she could be charged with
>vehicular homicide.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May  5 11:23:50 2004
Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 11:25:40 -0400
To: "John White" <kokopellian@XXXXXX>, "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: DUI killer skates on most serious charge

At 09:12 AM 5/5/04 -0400, John White wrote:
>That's f**ked up!  Wow!  She has to pay some how.  The family should file a
>wrongful death suit against her.  Tap into her assets and insurance or
>something.  I know that won't bring him back, but to let her just walk away
>like that....

She works at Burger King...how many assets do you figure she has?  She
drives drunk, what sort of insurance do you think she has?

On the other hand, it says she just left work...drunk.  Some smart lawyer
may be able to involve Burger King in this...goofier things have happened.

-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May  5 11:26:13 2004
Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 11:23:30 -0400
From: Skip <skip@XXXXXX>
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>, sabmag <SABMAG@XXXXXX>
Subject: Road Rash

A while back I saw a website where a guy detailed his crash injuries to help
encourage folks to wear gear by learning from his mistake.

I need to find that site again.

A guy I work with rides an R6.  He's about 20 or 21.  We were leaving work last
night at 12:30am, I'm putting  on my jacket and gloves.  he is just holding his
helmet.  I say, "did you leave your jacket outside?"  "nah...  I've got a nice
ass jacket, but I never wear it..."  He rides off in a polo shirt.  sigh.

so I want to point him to a graphic display of the risks he's taking.

--skip

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May  5 11:33:45 2004
Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 11:33:30 -0400
From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: DUI killer skates on most serious charge
X-AOL-IP: 65.86.98.162

I think it has something to do with paying the fine before the other charges could be filed.  Basically, by paying the ticket written at the time of the incident, she plead guilty to a lesser charge.  If she would not have paid it, they could dismiss the lesser charges and then go after her for the others.  Not sure though.  Gimer?

Scooter

In a message dated 5/5/2004 11:23:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time, omni@XXXXXX writes:

>
>
> So why can't she be charged with everything she did?  She was guilty of
> negligent driving, but she was also DUI and committed manslaughter.  Why
> can't she be charged with all of them?
>
> If they can go after the Rodney King cops for multiple charges based on the
> same event, why not this woman?
>
> -- Mike B.
>
> At 08:39 AM 5/5/04 -0400, Dave Yates wrote:
> >>From today's Times:
> >
> >DUI driver eludes charge of homicide
> >
> >ELLICOTT CITY, Md. (AP) â)Bâ‚$)B¬Â)B” An Ellicott City woman who was
> >legally drunk when she rear-ended a motorcycle last year,
> >killing its rider, faces no more than a year in prison
> after
> >paying a $275 ticket before she could be charged with
> >vehicular homicide.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May  5 11:34:16 2004
Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 11:34:00 -0400
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Road Rash

At 11:23 AM 5/5/2004, Skip wrote:
>A guy I work with rides an R6.  He's about 20 or 21.  We were leaving work
>last
>night at 12:30am, I'm putting  on my jacket and gloves.  he is just
>holding his
>helmet.  I say, "did you leave your jacket outside?"  "nah...  I've got a nice
>ass jacket, but I never wear it..."  He rides off in a polo shirt.  sigh.
>
>so I want to point him to a graphic display of the risks he's taking.

Keep in mind - you run the risk of coming off like the asshats in my
building that chose to tell me all about how dangerous riding is and how
they know so and so that got killed or maimed riding.

Or in college, the guy on the hall that brought full size posters of
smokers lungs into our room because my roommate smoked.   He got his ass
kicked.

If he owns a coat and chooses not to wear it, road rash pics aren't going
to change his mind.

Besides - it was COLD last night and the night before.  He must be insane.



___________________________________________
     Mike Troutman
         http://www.troutman.org/vfr
         1997 Honda VFR 750
            AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/
            NMA http://www.motorists.org

One who knows the enemy and knows himself
will not be in danger in a hundred battles.
One who does not know the enemy but knows himself
will sometimes win, sometimes lose.
One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself
will be in danger in every battle.
  - Sun Tzu

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May  5 11:38:33 2004
Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 08:38:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bryce <bster13@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Road Rash
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

http://www.cmyoung.com/bikewreck.html

--- Troutman <mike@XXXXXX> wrote:
> At 11:23 AM 5/5/2004, Skip wrote:
> >A guy I work with rides an R6.  He's about 20 or
> 21.  We were leaving work
> >last
> >night at 12:30am, I'm putting  on my jacket and
> gloves.  he is just
> >holding his
> >helmet.  I say, "did you leave your jacket
> outside?"  "nah...  I've got a nice
> >ass jacket, but I never wear it..."  He rides off
> in a polo shirt.  sigh.
> >
> >so I want to point him to a graphic display of the
> risks he's taking.
>




__________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May  5 11:39:47 2004
Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 08:39:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: DUI killer skates on most serious charge
To: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>, Dave Yates <Dave@XXXXXX>,
   dc-cycles@XXXXXX

double jeopardy



--- Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX> wrote:
> So why can't she be charged with everything she did?  She
> was guilty of
> negligent driving, but she was also DUI and committed
> manslaughter.  Why
> can't she be charged with all of them?
>
> If they can go after the Rodney King cops for multiple
> charges based on the
> same event, why not this woman?
>
> -- Mike B.
>
> At 08:39 AM 5/5/04 -0400, Dave Yates wrote:
> >>From today's Times:
> >
> >DUI driver eludes charge of homicide
> >
> >ELLICOTT CITY, Md. (AP) )B— An Ellicott City woman who
> was
> >legally drunk when she rear-ended a motorcycle last
> year,
> >killing its rider, faces no more than a year in prison
> after
> >paying a $275 ticket before she could be charged with
> >vehicular homicide.
>





__________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May  5 11:40:51 2004
Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 08:40:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ryan Santoso <santosor2001@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Road Rash
To: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX



> If he owns a coat and chooses not to wear it, road
> rash pics aren't going
> to change his mind.


I see it all the time on the road and the way i see
it, its their choice. They are adults and they can
make their own decisions. If they wanna get skinned
alive by the tarmac, by all means let them eat cake.






__________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May  5 11:41:56 2004
Subject: Road Rash
Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 11:45:30 -0400
From: "Julian Halton" <julian@XXXXXX>
To: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>




If you recall I mentioned a sense of foreboding a few weeks ago.
Wednesday last, three of us were riding to Adams Morgan- all in
protective gear.  An r6 and a Ducati monster sharing one lane. An R6 in
the other.  We were joking around (visors up) and having a general good
time. We are at Florida and 18th street. The light goes green and we all
take off.  A second later, a taxi makes a left turn into our path. I
have to brake sharply and turn left.  Ducati stops safely.  The third R6
rider, mashed on his brakes to the point the rear wheel was well off the
ground.  He t-bones into the cab. Hurt wrist, damaged rims and ruined
forks as well as broken brake lever.  The law took a good hour to
arrive, even after I made an appearance at local station.  Taxi driver
gets a ticket. Night is ruined and we all feel bad.


Last night, a gent walks into my bar with tremendous lumps, scrapes,
wrist case and other wrist bandages. Bar fight or moto accident.  He was
cut off by a cab turning into his lane.  His destroyed Ducati 748s pin
wheeled.  He slid eighty feet or so in a t-shirt. He has a broken wrist-
two places, a sprained wrist and his skin looks like some sort of
gravel-human tissue pock marked hybrid.




From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May  5 11:43:30 2004
Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 11:43:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Daniel H. Brown" <brown@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Road Rash

On Wed, 5 May 2004, Troutman wrote:
> >so I want to point him to a graphic display of the risks he's taking.
>
> Keep in mind - you run the risk of coming off like the asshats in my
> building that chose to tell me all about how dangerous riding is and how
> they know so and so that got killed or maimed riding.

I tend to agree with Troutman, no amount of dogma or preaching is going
to help if they guy insists on being an idiot.

FWIW, though, here's a tale from someone who used to read dc-cycles
many years ago [1]. Kinda hit home for me, as I was at the gathering he was
going home from when this happened:

http://www.dd.org/~tale/bikewreck/


[1] Some of the older readers and folks who have been around the net
since the dark ages may know of him too...

--
Dan Brown
brown@XXXXXX

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May  5 11:44:17 2004
Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 11:41:37 -0400
From: Skip <skip@XXXXXX>
CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Road Rash

that's the one.

thanks!

Bryce wrote:
>
> http://www.cmyoung.com/bikewreck.html
>
> --- Troutman <mike@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > At 11:23 AM 5/5/2004, Skip wrote:
> > >A guy I work with rides an R6.  He's about 20 or
> > 21.  We were leaving work
> > >last
> > >night at 12:30am, I'm putting  on my jacket and
> > gloves.  he is just
> > >holding his
> > >helmet.  I say, "did you leave your jacket
> > outside?"  "nah...  I've got a nice
> > >ass jacket, but I never wear it..."  He rides off
> > in a polo shirt.  sigh.
> > >
> > >so I want to point him to a graphic display of the
> > risks he's taking.
> >
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
> http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May  5 11:46:59 2004
Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 11:44:19 -0400
From: Skip <skip@XXXXXX>
CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Road Rash

I'm willing to be the asshat once.  I figure, maybe he doens't know...  maybe he
just needs to see the possible results.  kind of like they do in driver's ed,
where they show you the results of an accident where one guy was wearing his
seatbelt and the other wasn't.  Some people learn from that shit, me being one
of them. :~)  I was -well- known for wearing my seatbelt in highschool, and
walked away unscathed from 3 crashes that wounded the other occupants.  No...  I
wans't the driver in any of them...  but yeah, it was the same driver all three
times :~)  No one else would ride with the guy, so I always had shotgun. ;-D

and yeah, it was pretty chilly last night.  I got a bit cold on my 5 minute ride
home.  dunno how he made it the 30 minutes out to his place in leesburg...

--skip



Troutman wrote:
>
> At 11:23 AM 5/5/2004, Skip wrote:
> >A guy I work with rides an R6.  He's about 20 or 21.  We were leaving work
> >last
> >night at 12:30am, I'm putting  on my jacket and gloves.  he is just
> >holding his
> >helmet.  I say, "did you leave your jacket outside?"  "nah...  I've got a nice
> >ass jacket, but I never wear it..."  He rides off in a polo shirt.  sigh.
> >
> >so I want to point him to a graphic display of the risks he's taking.
>
> Keep in mind - you run the risk of coming off like the asshats in my
> building that chose to tell me all about how dangerous riding is and how
> they know so and so that got killed or maimed riding.
>
> Or in college, the guy on the hall that brought full size posters of
> smokers lungs into our room because my roommate smoked.   He got his ass
> kicked.
>
> If he owns a coat and chooses not to wear it, road rash pics aren't going
> to change his mind.
>
> Besides - it was COLD last night and the night before.  He must be insane.
>
> ___________________________________________
>      Mike Troutman
>          http://www.troutman.org/vfr
>          1997 Honda VFR 750
>             AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/
>             NMA http://www.motorists.org
>
> One who knows the enemy and knows himself
> will not be in danger in a hundred battles.
> One who does not know the enemy but knows himself
> will sometimes win, sometimes lose.
> One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself
> will be in danger in every battle.
>   - Sun Tzu

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May  5 11:50:23 2004
Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 10:50:04 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
From: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
Reply-To: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
To: "Daniel H. Brown" <brown@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Road Rash



-----Original Message-----
From: "Daniel H. Brown" <brown@XXXXXX>

On Wed, 5 May 2004, Troutman wrote:
> >so I want to point him to a graphic display of the risks he's taking.
>
> Keep in mind - you run the risk of coming off like the asshats in my
> building that chose to tell me all about how dangerous riding is and how
> they know so and so that got killed or maimed riding.

I tend to agree with Troutman, no amount of dogma or preaching is going
to help if they guy insists on being an idiot.


---------------

Dogma and preaching, or "information"?   Put the information in their hands.  If they still choose to ignore it, they've made an informed choice, albeit a poor one.





Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org
95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour]

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May  5 11:53:59 2004
Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 11:53:47 -0400
From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Road Rash
X-AOL-IP: 65.86.98.162

I personally think all hackycab drivers in the DC metro area are agents of Satan.  Only one out of 1000 speaks english, knows where they are going and doesn't drive like an asshole.  The rest think that they own the roads and everyone else, pedestrians on the sidewalks also, be damned.  I avoid taxis as much as possible because of this fact.

Scooter (taxius-avoidicus to the maximus)

In a message dated 5/5/2004 11:45:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time, julian@XXXXXX writes:

>
>
>
>
>
> If you recall I mentioned a sense of foreboding a few weeks ago.
> Wednesday last, three of us were riding to Adams Morgan- all in
> protective gear.  An r6 and a Ducati monster sharing one lane. An R6 in
> the other.  We were joking around (visors up) and having a general good
> time. We are at Florida and 18th street. The light goes green and we all
> take off.  A second later, a taxi makes a left turn into our path. I
> have to brake sharply and turn left.  Ducati stops safely.  The third R6
> rider, mashed on his brakes to the point the rear wheel was well off the
> ground.  He t-bones into the cab. Hurt wrist, damaged rims and ruined
> forks as well as broken brake lever.  The law took a good hour to
> arrive, even after I made an appearance at local station.  Taxi driver
> gets a ticket. Night is ruined and we all feel bad.
>
>
> Last night, a gent walks into my bar with tremendous lumps, scrapes,
> wrist case and other wrist bandages. Bar fight or moto accident.  He was
> cut off by a cab turning into his lane.  His destroyed Ducati 748s pin
> wheeled.  He slid eighty feet or so in a t-shirt. He has a broken wrist-
> two places, a sprained wrist and his skin looks like some
> sort of
> gravel-human tissue pock marked hybrid.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May  5 11:57:20 2004
Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 11:57:13 -0400
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Road Rash

At 11:50 AM 5/5/2004, Paul Wilson wrote:
>Dogma and preaching, or "information"?   Put the information in their
>hands.  If they still choose to ignore it, they've made an informed
>choice, albeit a poor one.

If he rides and he owns a jacket, he has the information already.

I'm about to ride to lunch.  I'm not wearing my Phoenix pants, just my
slacks and Kenya jacket for the two mile trip at low speed.  I am aware of
the risk, I have the information.

Why isn't it 90 and humid yet?  This is still DC isn't it?



___________________________________________
     Mike Troutman
         http://www.troutman.org/vfr
         1997 Honda VFR 750
            AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/
            NMA http://www.motorists.org

One who knows the enemy and knows himself
will not be in danger in a hundred battles.
One who does not know the enemy but knows himself
will sometimes win, sometimes lose.
One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself
will be in danger in every battle.
  - Sun Tzu

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May  5 11:58:49 2004
Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 11:56:09 -0400
From: Skip <skip@XXXXXX>
CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Road Rash

Paul Wilson wrote:
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Daniel H. Brown" <brown@XXXXXX>
>
> On Wed, 5 May 2004, Troutman wrote:
> > >so I want to point him to a graphic display of the risks he's taking.
> >
> > Keep in mind - you run the risk of coming off like the asshats in my
> > building that chose to tell me all about how dangerous riding is and how
> > they know so and so that got killed or maimed riding.
>
> I tend to agree with Troutman, no amount of dogma or preaching is going
> to help if they guy insists on being an idiot.
>
> ---------------
>
> Dogma and preaching, or "information"?   Put the information in their hands.  If they still choose to ignore it, they've made an informed choice, albeit a poor one.
>
> Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org
> 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour]


That's where I'm coming from.  I'll make sure he knows the additional ricks he's
taking and leave it at that.  I do the same thing with newbies in skydiving
doing stupid things...   I let them know what they did wrong, what could happen
and let them make the decision as to whether or not to mitigate or accept that
risk.

If I know that they are doign something that increases their risk, and they
don't know it, and I don't say anything, I am complicitous in their stupidity.
once they know, the onus is on them to address or accept the outcome.

--skip

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May  5 12:01:16 2004
Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 11:58:37 -0400
From: Skip <skip@XXXXXX>
CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Road Rash



Troutman wrote:
>
> At 11:50 AM 5/5/2004, Paul Wilson wrote:
> >Dogma and preaching, or "information"?   Put the information in their
> >hands.  If they still choose to ignore it, they've made an informed
> >choice, albeit a poor one.
>
> If he rides and he owns a jacket, he has the information already.
>
> I'm about to ride to lunch.  I'm not wearing my Phoenix pants, just my
> slacks and Kenya jacket for the two mile trip at low speed.  I am aware of
> the risk, I have the information.
>
> Why isn't it 90 and humid yet?  This is still DC isn't it?

I'm betting he bought the jacket because it matched the bike, like the helmet.

like I said.  I tell him once, and then my conscience will be clear.  it is,
after all, about me. :~)

--skip

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May  5 12:05:14 2004
Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 11:05:07 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
From: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
Reply-To: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
To: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Road Rash



-----Original Message-----
From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX

I personally think all hackycab drivers in the DC metro area are agents of Satan.  Only one out of 1000 speaks english, knows where they are going and doesn't drive like an asshole.  The rest think that they own the roads and everyone else, pedestrians on the sidewalks also, be damned.  I avoid taxis as much as possible because of this fact.

Scooter (taxius-avoidicus to the maximus)

--------
Yeah, you'd think they'd get better out of sheer repetition.  As for not knowing where they're going, I stepped into a cab in front of my house, and (as Dave Barry sez) I swear I'm not making this up, the cabbie asks me for the best way to get to National Airport.  Criminy, you only go there, what, fifty-sixty times a week and need directions!  ::eye roll::

And don't even get me started on that cockamamie zone system that's tailor-made for fleecing clueless out of towners.  It's a shame they're not all yellow, like NYC.  It makes 'em easier to spot and avoid.






Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org
95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour]

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May  5 12:10:02 2004
Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 09:09:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Road Rash
To: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>, ScooterFZR@XXXXXX,
   dc-cycles@XXXXXX

Bunch of BABIES!  I love DC cabs.  If you know the
zone system it can be very beneficial to your wallet.
I know it better than the cabbies.  SOme interesting
drivers too, many african doctors, middle eastern
professors, etc.  I have left many boring dinner
parties only to  have engaging intellectual
discussions with the cabbie.

Last interesting ride was with a hatian voodoo
practitioner.  Don't cross me.


--- Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX> wrote:
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
>
> I personally think all hackycab drivers in the DC
> metro area are agents of Satan.  Only one out of
> 1000 speaks english, knows where they are going and
> doesn't drive like an asshole.  The rest think that
> they own the roads and everyone else, pedestrians on
> the sidewalks also, be damned.  I avoid taxis as
> much as possible because of this fact.
>
> Scooter (taxius-avoidicus to the maximus)
>
> --------
> Yeah, you'd think they'd get better out of sheer
> repetition.  As for not knowing where they're going,
> I stepped into a cab in front of my house, and (as
> Dave Barry sez) I swear I'm not making this up, the
> cabbie asks me for the best way to get to National
> Airport.  Criminy, you only go there, what,
> fifty-sixty times a week and need directions!  ::eye
> roll::
>
> And don't even get me started on that cockamamie
> zone system that's tailor-made for fleecing clueless
> out of towners.  It's a shame they're not all
> yellow, like NYC.  It makes 'em easier to spot and
> avoid.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org
> 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour]
>





__________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May  5 12:15:26 2004
Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 12:17:51 -0400
To: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>, Dave Yates <Dave@XXXXXX>,
   dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: DUI killer skates on most serious charge

Non-responsive.

Double Jeopardy has to do with being tried twice for the *same offense*.
Driving drunk, negligent driving, and manslaughter are not the same
offense...though they are often committed simultaneously.

In the Rodney King case the officers were charged with things like
excessive use of force, and found innocent.  Then they were charged with
violation of civil rights for the same actions...and convicted.  If that
wasn't double jeopardy, then charging this woman with manslaughter now
wouldn't be either.

The "pleading guilty to a lesser charge" thing is plea bargaining.  That's
the "if you'll agree you did X, we will agree not to go after you for Y".
It hasn't got anything to do with double jeopardy.  It's an efficiency
thing in the system to let more cases get settled *somehow* in a given time
and with given resources.  It's expediency, not justice.

-- Mike B.

At 08:39 AM 5/5/04 -0700, Tom Gimer wrote:
>double jeopardy
>
>
>
>--- Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX> wrote:
>> So why can't she be charged with everything she did?  She
>> was guilty of
>> negligent driving, but she was also DUI and committed
>> manslaughter.  Why
>> can't she be charged with all of them?
>>
>> If they can go after the Rodney King cops for multiple
>> charges based on the
>> same event, why not this woman?
>>
>> -- Mike B.
>>
>> At 08:39 AM 5/5/04 -0400, Dave Yates wrote:
>> >>From today's Times:
>> >
>> >DUI driver eludes charge of homicide
>> >
>> >ELLICOTT CITY, Md. (AP) )B— An Ellicott City woman who
>> was
>> >legally drunk when she rear-ended a motorcycle last
>> year,
>> >killing its rider, faces no more than a year in prison
>> after
>> >paying a $275 ticket before she could be charged with
>> >vehicular homicide.
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>__________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
>http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May  5 12:22:14 2004
Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 12:22:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Daniel H. Brown" <brown@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Taxis was Re: Road Rash

On Wed, 5 May 2004, Paul Wilson wrote:

> Yeah, you'd think they'd get better out of sheer repetition.  As for not
> knowing where they're going, I stepped into a cab in front of my house, and
> (as Dave Barry sez) I swear I'm not making this up, the cabbie asks me for
> the best way to get to National Airport.  Criminy, you only go there, what,
> fifty-sixty times a week and need directions!  ::eye roll::

That, my son, is a test to see what kinda chump you are.


--
Dan Brown
brown@XXXXXX

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May  5 12:35:02 2004
Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 09:34:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: DUI killer skates on most serious charge
To: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>, Dave Yates <Dave@XXXXXX>,
   dc-cycles@XXXXXX

--- Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Non-responsive.

i have no details to work with other than the blurb, but my
bet is that the decision in this case turned on the concept
of double jeopardy.


> Double Jeopardy has to do with being tried twice for the
> *same offense*.

and, paying a fine often constitutes "being tried."


> Driving drunk, negligent driving, and manslaughter are
> not the same
> offense...though they are often committed simultaneously.

being convicted of a lesser included offense often bars a
subsequent proceeding based upon the offense which, for
whatever reason, was not charged or pursued.


> In the Rodney King case the officers were charged with
> things like
> excessive use of force, and found innocent.  Then they
> were charged with
> violation of civil rights for the same actions...and
> convicted.  If that
> wasn't double jeopardy, then charging this woman with
> manslaughter now
> wouldn't be either.

is this the rodney king case we're discussing?  no?  then
the above is a perfect model example of non-responsiveness.



> The "pleading guilty to a lesser charge" thing is plea
> bargaining.  That's
> the "if you'll agree you did X, we will agree not to go
> after you for Y".
> It hasn't got anything to do with double jeopardy.  It's
> an efficiency
> thing in the system to let more cases get settled
> *somehow* in a given time
> and with given resources.  It's expediency, not justice.

and i now officially have no idea what you're talking
about.  all i heard is somebody paid a ticket and then the
state was barred from proceeding on a subsequent charge
which arose out of the same facts and circumstances.



> At 08:39 AM 5/5/04 -0700, Tom Gimer wrote:
> >double jeopardy
> >
> >
> >
> >--- Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX> wrote:
> >> So why can't she be charged with everything she did?
> She
> >> was guilty of
> >> negligent driving, but she was also DUI and committed
> >> manslaughter.  Why
> >> can't she be charged with all of them?
> >>
> >> If they can go after the Rodney King cops for multiple
> >> charges based on the
> >> same event, why not this woman?
> >>
> >> -- Mike B.
> >>
> >> At 08:39 AM 5/5/04 -0400, Dave Yates wrote:
> >> >>From today's Times:
> >> >
> >> >DUI driver eludes charge of homicide
> >> >
> >> >ELLICOTT CITY, Md. (AP) )B— An Ellicott City woman
> who
> >> was
> >> >legally drunk when she rear-ended a motorcycle last
> >> year,
> >> >killing its rider, faces no more than a year in
> prison
> >> after
> >> >paying a $275 ticket before she could be charged with
>
> >> >vehicular homicide.


=====
Thomas H. Gimer <tgimer@XXXXXX>
MURPHY & GIMER, LLC
7940A Wisconsin Avenue
Bethesda, MD 20814
301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax)
http://www.murphygimer.com

**This material is being sent by a law firm and is intended only for the addressee.  Various legal protections including the attorney-client privilege can apply to this material and no consent is given to its being read or used by anyone other than the intended recipient.  Any other use is unlawful.




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May  5 13:22:21 2004
Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 13:22:16 -0400
From: Dave Yates <Dave@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Road Rash
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

Kitchell writes:

>Bunch of BABIES!  I love DC cabs.  If you know the
>zone system it can be very beneficial to your wallet.
>I know it better than the cabbies.  SOme interesting
>drivers too, many african doctors, middle eastern
>professors, etc.  I have left many boring dinner
>parties only to  have engaging intellectual
>discussions with the cabbie.

[Dave]  As a comment and opinion, I would offer that my cab
rides around here have been absolutely sedate compared to the
one trip I made to Philly for a few days on the company
dime.  Those cabbies were fearless.  Foolhardy in fact.  The
concierge did manage to land us some more calm drivers on the
last day I was there though...  I didn't find these guys
interesting, I found them to be road menaces... ;-)

>
>Last interesting ride was with a hatian voodoo
>practitioner.  Don't cross me.

[Dave]  Bah !  My voodoo powers are far beyond yours!  I've
been pinning my Admin's Voodoo doll for about 1 year 5 months
now since she got me sick with some form of cold virus.  I
don't even hide it from anyone.  Yes, I do get some furrowed
brows, and disapproving scowls, and yes, I should use my
powers only for good, but she deserves it! ;-)

Dave
>
>
>--- Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX> wrote:
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
>>
>> I personally think all hackycab drivers in the DC
>> metro area are agents of Satan.  Only one out of
>> 1000 speaks english, knows where they are going and
>> doesn't drive like an asshole.  The rest think that
>> they own the roads and everyone else, pedestrians on
>> the sidewalks also, be damned.  I avoid taxis as
>> much as possible because of this fact.
>>
>> Scooter (taxius-avoidicus to the maximus)
>>
>> --------
>> Yeah, you'd think they'd get better out of sheer
>> repetition.  As for not knowing where they're going,
>> I stepped into a cab in front of my house, and (as
>> Dave Barry sez) I swear I'm not making this up, the
>> cabbie asks me for the best way to get to National
>> Airport.  Criminy, you only go there, what,
>> fifty-sixty times a week and need directions!  ::eye
>> roll::
>>
>> And don't even get me started on that cockamamie
>> zone system that's tailor-made for fleecing clueless
>> out of towners.  It's a shame they're not all
>> yellow, like NYC.  It makes 'em easier to spot and
>> avoid.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org
>> 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour]
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>__________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
>http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May  5 13:31:02 2004
Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 13:30:51 -0400
To: dc-cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Aki Damme <adamme1@XXXXXX>
Subject: Screw Taxis..check THIS out.


good god...and to think we're bitching about cicadas...

Just pulled this off of r.m.h.



**************************************************************************
Howdy, thought I had remembered seeing something on Nova or
something
dealing with all the nasty things crawling around
Australia, (not just the
men and some women..) So, I went and looked this up..
Oh, little did I know that even the Platypus has a toxic
bite, who woulda
thunk..

"Hello, I'm Doug, and I've approved this message"

http://www.abc.net.au/science/slab/shorter/story.htm

Along with the red-back and its mythical toilet-seat
antics, the funnel web
spider holds a special place in the Australian psyche. But
what most people
think of as "the funnel web" is actually a collection of
about 35 different
species of spiders, most of which are dangerous. The one
that gets most
publicity is the Sydney funnel web (Atrax robustus), the
species responsible
for Australia's 13 recorded funnel web fatalities.

The males are the deadly ones and Jamie Fletcher, who
studies funnel web
toxins at the University of Sydney, says the venom is
packed with at least 40
different toxic proteins (called peptides). Only one of
them is dangerous to
humans as far as anyone can tell, but it's more than
effective enough on its
own.

Called robustoxin, the peptide is another neurotoxin that
disrupts nerve
signals. However, it works in the opposite way to the
taipan venom. Instead of
shutting-down nerve signalling, it switches it all on at
once causing massive
electrical over-load in the body's nervous system. The
protein attaches itself
to nerve synapses and prevents them from switching off -
salivary glands, tear
ducts and sweat glands all start running uncontrollably,
muscles begin to
spasm, blood pressure climbs as blood vessels contract and
then falls to
dangerously low levels. Ultimately, most funnel web
fatalities occur from
either cardiac arrest or a condition known as pulmonary
oedema, where the
capillaries around the lungs begin to leak and the patient
effectively drowns.
Death can come as quickly as two hours after a bite.

(sounds like a very unpleasant way to go, much rather just
have my CNS go
and put me down fairly quietly, this is like death by an
"Ebola Bite")

*************************************************************************

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May  5 14:34:59 2004
From: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" <Silvera@XXXXXX>
To: "'Troutman'" <mike@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: Road Rash
Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 14:34:43 -0400

Well said. I ride with my father in law who never wears any gear aside from
a 3/4 helmet. I joke around with him and say he better protect that art work
I designed for him (tattoos). He knows about the risks and besides my wife
gives him grief about not wearing gear. I can't wait till those cicadas come
out he'll where gear then.

-----Original Message-----
From: Troutman [mailto:mike@XXXXXX]
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:57 AM
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Road Rash

At 11:50 AM 5/5/2004, Paul Wilson wrote:
>Dogma and preaching, or "information"?   Put the information in their
>hands.  If they still choose to ignore it, they've made an informed
>choice, albeit a poor one.

If he rides and he owns a jacket, he has the information already.

I'm about to ride to lunch.  I'm not wearing my Phoenix pants, just my
slacks and Kenya jacket for the two mile trip at low speed.  I am aware of
the risk, I have the information.

Why isn't it 90 and humid yet?  This is still DC isn't it?



___________________________________________
     Mike Troutman
         http://www.troutman.org/vfr
         1997 Honda VFR 750
            AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/
            NMA http://www.motorists.org

One who knows the enemy and knows himself
will not be in danger in a hundred battles.
One who does not know the enemy but knows himself
will sometimes win, sometimes lose.
One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself
will be in danger in every battle.
  - Sun Tzu

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May  5 14:38:10 2004
Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 14:40:48 -0400
To: Aki Damme <adamme1@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Screw Taxis..check THIS out.

At 01:30 PM 5/5/04 -0400, Aki Damme wrote:

>Oh, little did I know that even the Platypus has a toxic
>bite, who woulda thunk..

Only those who haven't read carefully about Platypi?

They don't have a toxic bite.  The males do have a poisonous spur on the
rear legs though.

I don't believe they ride though.



-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May  5 14:39:42 2004
Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 14:37:14 -0400
To: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>, Dave Yates <Dave@XXXXXX>,
   dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: DUI killer skates on most serious charge

At 09:34 AM 5/5/04 -0700, Tom Gimer wrote:
>--- Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX> wrote:

>> Double Jeopardy has to do with being tried twice for the
>> *same offense*.
>
>and, paying a fine often constitutes "being tried."

Yes, for the offense one is paying the fine for.  Not for other offenses
one may or may not have committed.

>> Driving drunk, negligent driving, and manslaughter are
>> not the same
>> offense...though they are often committed simultaneously.
>
>being convicted of a lesser included offense often bars a
>subsequent proceeding based upon the offense which, for
>whatever reason, was not charged or pursued.

I don't know what often happens.  I'm talking about what should be
happening.  Often the officer at the scene will fail to cite for a given
offense.  Does that mean that all such offenses should be excused?  Of
course not.

Does pleading guilty to burglary excuse me from a charge of murder of a
resident of the dwelling committed as part of that burglary?  If not, why
should pleading guilty to negligent driving excuse manslaughter?

If you say it's because the charges were already brought for the lesser
offense, and pled to, what if the murder wasn't discovered until a week
after I'd been arrested for the burglary?  Any change in the situation?

If not, I think we have a loophole that will allow murder to be committed.
Just commit it in conjunction with some lesser crime, make sure the murder
isn't discovered until after you've been arrested, charged and pled guilty
to the lesser charge, and you are home free.  "Double Jeopardy" will
prevent them from charging you with the murder later on...that's what
happened in this case anyway (with different crimes, obviously).  The guy
wasn't dead at the scene...he died several days later, after the charges
for negligent driving had been brought, and the fine paid...and you (and
the state authorities) say that this means they can't charge her with her
other crimes...this is *wrong*.

>> In the Rodney King case the officers were charged with
>> things like
>> excessive use of force, and found innocent.  Then they
>> were charged with
>> violation of civil rights for the same actions...and
>> convicted.  If that
>> wasn't double jeopardy, then charging this woman with
>> manslaughter now
>> wouldn't be either.
>
>is this the rodney king case we're discussing?  no?  then
>the above is a perfect model example of non-responsiveness.

Ever hear of "precedent"?  The non-statuatory part of the law?  The law
seems relevant here...too bad those in charge of it aren't doing their jobs
very well.


-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May  5 14:48:41 2004
Subject: RE: Road Rash
Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 14:52:16 -0400
From: "Julian Halton" <julian@XXXXXX>
To: "Dave Yates" <Dave@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Voodoo unto others before they voodoo unto you.

I have had many a fine conversation with cabbies.  On my bike, on the
road..any car or plate that remotely resembles a commercial vehicle
raises a massive red flag,
Prone to sudden stops, open doors, multiple lane changes, u-turns,
sudden line shifts.
Threat level Alpha..folks.

I do my bit at education by always pulling up beside the cab at the
traffic light after they have cut me off, nudged me out of my lane or
forced an evasive maneuver.  I flip my visor up, eye-f^&k the cabbie
with a fugazy stare and then say please, PLEASE...WATCH out for
motorcycles and then go on my way.

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Yates [mailto:Dave@XXXXXX]
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 1:22 PM
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Road Rash

Kitchell writes:

>Bunch of BABIES!  I love DC cabs.  If you know the zone system it can
>be very beneficial to your wallet.
>I know it better than the cabbies.  SOme interesting drivers too, many
>african doctors, middle eastern professors, etc.  I have left many
>boring dinner parties only to  have engaging intellectual discussions
>with the cabbie.

[Dave]  As a comment and opinion, I would offer that my cab rides around
here have been absolutely sedate compared to the one trip I made to
Philly for a few days on the company dime.  Those cabbies were fearless.
Foolhardy in fact.  The concierge did manage to land us some more calm
drivers on the last day I was there though...  I didn't find these guys
interesting, I found them to be road menaces... ;-)

>
>Last interesting ride was with a hatian voodoo practitioner.  Don't
>cross me.

[Dave]  Bah !  My voodoo powers are far beyond yours!  I've been pinning
my Admin's Voodoo doll for about 1 year 5 months now since she got me
sick with some form of cold virus.  I don't even hide it from anyone.
Yes, I do get some furrowed brows, and disapproving scowls, and yes, I
should use my powers only for good, but she deserves it! ;-)

Dave
>
>
>--- Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX> wrote:
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
>>
>> I personally think all hackycab drivers in the DC
>> metro area are agents of Satan.  Only one out of
>> 1000 speaks english, knows where they are going and
>> doesn't drive like an asshole.  The rest think that
>> they own the roads and everyone else, pedestrians on
>> the sidewalks also, be damned.  I avoid taxis as
>> much as possible because of this fact.
>>
>> Scooter (taxius-avoidicus to the maximus)
>>
>> --------
>> Yeah, you'd think they'd get better out of sheer
>> repetition.  As for not knowing where they're going,
>> I stepped into a cab in front of my house, and (as
>> Dave Barry sez) I swear I'm not making this up, the
>> cabbie asks me for the best way to get to National
>> Airport.  Criminy, you only go there, what,
>> fifty-sixty times a week and need directions!  ::eye
>> roll::
>>
>> And don't even get me started on that cockamamie
>> zone system that's tailor-made for fleecing clueless
>> out of towners.  It's a shame they're not all
>> yellow, like NYC.  It makes 'em easier to spot and
>> avoid.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org
>> 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour]
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>__________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
>http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
>




From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May  5 14:53:15 2004
Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 14:50:35 -0400
From: Skip <skip@XXXXXX>
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: html help

as an html n00b, I'm looking for some hep.

ping me offlist.

--skip

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May  5 19:17:02 2004
From: "Rob Sharp" <rob@XXXXXX>
To: "John White" <kokopellian@XXXXXX>, "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: DUI killer skates on most serious charge
Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 19:18:22 -0400

Wrongful death suit huh.

I quote:
> >     Miss Williams had just left work at a Burger King on

You probably will spend more in legal fees the you will ever get back.


Rob


On Wed, 5 May 2004 09:12:42 -0400, John White wrote
> That's f**ked up!  Wow!  She has to pay some how.  The family should
> file a wrongful death suit against her.  Tap into her assets and
> insurance or something.  I know that won't bring him back, but to
> let her just walk away like that....
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave Yates" <Dave@XXXXXX>
> To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 8:39 AM
> Subject: DUI killer skates on most serious charge
>
> > From today's Times:
> >
> > DUI driver eludes charge of homicide
> >
> >
> >
[UTF-8?]> > ELLICOTT CITY, Md. (AP) )B— An Ellicott City woman who was
> > legally drunk when she rear-ended a motorcycle last year,
> > killing its rider, faces no more than a year in prison after
> > paying a $275 ticket before she could be charged with
> > vehicular homicide.
> >     In essence, Susan Elizabeth Williams, 35, pleaded guilty
> > to a lesser charge before a more serious one could be
> > leveled.
> >
> >     "She kind of found a crack in the system," State's
> > Attorney Timothy J. McCrone said.
> >     As a result, police issued a memo advising officers not
> > to issue tickets for negligent driving in drunken-driving
> > cases involving injuries until the case is reviewed.
> >     Miss Williams had faced several charges, including
> > driving while intoxicated and vehicular homicide, in the
> > death of Dennis Jerry Sullivan, 42, a mechanic and father of
> > two.
> >     Miss Williams had just left work at a Burger King on
> > Baltimore National Pike when she crashed into Mr. Sullivan.
> > Officers tested her on the scene, decided she was intoxicated
> > and arrested her, police spokesman Richard Malcolm said.
> >     But because Mr. Sullivan did not appear critically
[UTF-8?]> > injured )B— although he was taken to a hospital complaining of
[UTF-8?]> > back injuries )B— the investigating officer did not call the
> > traffic investigation division, which would have been the
> > routine in accidents involving serious injuries, Mr. Malcolm
> > said.
> >     The officer charged Miss Williams with several citations
> > related to the accident, including negligent driving.
> >     Mr. Sullivan died of internal injuries days later, and
> > prosecutors filed papers to drop the lesser counts.
> >     In the meantime, Miss Williams had paid the $275 fine for
> > negligent driving.
> >     A Circuit Court judge agreed and dropped the vehicular
> > homicide charge against Miss Williams on April 1. On Monday,
> > she pleaded not guilty to driving under the influence but
> > waived her right to a trial, and Judge Dennis Sweeney found
> > her guilty.
> >     Sentencing was set for July 7.
> >
> > Dave Yates
> >
> >


--
Rob Sharp
1996 Honda VFR 750
2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme
SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA
Network Security Engineer

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May  5 20:50:26 2004
Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 20:48:30 -0400
Subject: Blogs
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
To: RichardW@XXXXXX
From: Bob McKeithen <bmckeithen@XXXXXX>

Check www.horizonsunlimited.  Very dense, a little difficult to get the
hang of navigation, but TONS of info.

Bob

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May  5 22:00:19 2004
Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 21:58:23 -0400
Subject: Riders/owners--mileage bragging rights
From: Bob McKeithen <bmckeithen@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

I classify motorcyclists into two groups-- Riders or Owners. And it not
entirely a matter of miles--its more a matter of attitude. That said,
below find a few suggestions--feel free to add yours

You Are a Rider if:

You ride the bike any chance you get

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May  5 22:04:23 2004
From: "John White" <kokopellian@XXXXXX>
To: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>,
   "Mark Kitchell" <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: DUI killer skates on most serious charge
Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 22:04:13 -0400
Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 5 May 2004 22:04:14 -0400
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original

Just because she's a drunk working at Burger King doesn't mean she has no
insurance or assets.  Sure you can surmise that, but she could be a manager,
own a home and the like.  You just can't assume.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Kitchell" <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
To: "John White" <kokopellian@XXXXXX>; "DC Cycles"
<dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 9:16 AM
Subject: Re: DUI killer skates on most serious charge


> I doubt there are too many assets if she worked at
> Burger King.  That is SO screwed up.  Even regular DUI
> convicts get much more penalties than that.
>
>
> --- John White <kokopellian@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > That's f**ked up!  Wow!  She has to pay some how.
> > The family should file a
> > wrongful death suit against her.  Tap into her
> > assets and insurance or
> > something.  I know that won't bring him back, but to
> > let her just walk away
> > like that....
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Dave Yates" <Dave@XXXXXX>
> > To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 8:39 AM
> > Subject: DUI killer skates on most serious charge
> >
> >
> > > From today's Times:
> > >
> > > DUI driver eludes charge of homicide
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ELLICOTT CITY, Md. (AP) b An Ellicott City woman
> > who was
> > > legally drunk when she rear-ended a motorcycle
> > last year,
> > > killing its rider, faces no more than a year in
> > prison after
> > > paying a $275 ticket before she could be charged
> > with
> > > vehicular homicide.
> > >     In essence, Susan Elizabeth Williams, 35,
> > pleaded guilty
> > > to a lesser charge before a more serious one could
> > be
> > > leveled.
> > >
> > >     "She kind of found a crack in the system,"
> > State's
> > > Attorney Timothy J. McCrone said.
> > >     As a result, police issued a memo advising
> > officers not
> > > to issue tickets for negligent driving in
> > drunken-driving
> > > cases involving injuries until the case is
> > reviewed.
> > >     Miss Williams had faced several charges,
> > including
> > > driving while intoxicated and vehicular homicide,
> > in the
> > > death of Dennis Jerry Sullivan, 42, a mechanic and
> > father of
> > > two.
> > >     Miss Williams had just left work at a Burger
> > King on
> > > Baltimore National Pike when she crashed into Mr.
> > Sullivan.
> > > Officers tested her on the scene, decided she was
> > intoxicated
> > > and arrested her, police spokesman Richard Malcolm
> > said.
> > >     But because Mr. Sullivan did not appear
> > critically
> > > injured b although he was taken to a hospital
> > complaining of
> > > back injuries b the investigating officer did
> > not call the
> > > traffic investigation division, which would have
> > been the
> > > routine in accidents involving serious injuries,
> > Mr. Malcolm
> > > said.
> > >     The officer charged Miss Williams with several
> > citations
> > > related to the accident, including negligent
> > driving.
> > >     Mr. Sullivan died of internal injuries days
> > later, and
> > > prosecutors filed papers to drop the lesser
> > counts.
> > >     In the meantime, Miss Williams had paid the
> > $275 fine for
> > > negligent driving.
> > >     A Circuit Court judge agreed and dropped the
> > vehicular
> > > homicide charge against Miss Williams on April 1.
> > On Monday,
> > > she pleaded not guilty to driving under the
> > influence but
> > > waived her right to a trial, and Judge Dennis
> > Sweeney found
> > > her guilty.
> > >     Sentencing was set for July 7.
> > >
> > > Dave Yates
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
> http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
>
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May  5 23:28:49 2004
Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 20:28:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>
Subject: Quick note from Colorado
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

After two weeks, our internet is back up. 450 or so messages in the
dc-cycles group alone. A quick note and then back to getting caught up.

Colorado biking observations: There are a lot of folks out here riding.
Maybe it's because I'm riding more these past couple of days. There's
about a 2/3'rds majority of cruisers out here and about 85% of both kinds
ride lidless and gearless. It doesn't seem to matter what kind of bike. I
saw a Beemer with a large (Paul Sr:OCC sized) guy in a wife-beater. I keep
seeing an older guy (sunglasses, merchant marine leather cap, leather
jacket, walrus mustache) on a little 250 Kawasaki sport bike. Just a
little mental shift there.

Traffic is unbelievable, probably due to the grid pattern of the streets.
There's no funneling of traffic into a main road. Traffic can filter to
their destination with a minimum of fuss. I rode my bike across town to
drop off the Budget key between 2:30 and 4:30 (took an hour to get there)
and I only had to stop at the occasional light. No double waits. I was
able to avoid the main commuter route (25N) and they didn't have to put up
with cross-town traffic. And before someone mentions it, I know Denver
built the roads some years after the roads back East were built.

Another nice feature is the cross streets with traffic lights have the
street signs back-lit at night.

Rita and I are planning our first overnight trip some time next week
hopefully. I'll post the trip when we get back.

After experiencing it again, I have to agree. It's not the heat (88
degrees today), it's the humidity (10% or so).

Later,

Carl

=====
02 Harley FXSTI
95 Suzuki GSXR 750W
76 Honda Chopper (in progress)




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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May  6 02:42:53 2004
Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 02:43:23 -0400
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Cute super-squid?

Talk about lack of proper equipment:

http://www.diablosundevils.com/members_public/pages/Motorcycle_0005_NM_vera.
htm

That's *motorcycle riding* equipment anyway...


-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May  6 07:32:09 2004
From: "rich hall" <richallmc@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: Quick note from Colorado
Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 07:31:54 -0400

123, just inside the beltway there is one of these.

>From: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>
>To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
>Subject: Quick note from Colorado
>Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 20:28:46 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Another nice feature is the cross streets with traffic lights have the
>street signs back-lit at night.

_________________________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May  6 08:34:00 2004
Date: Thu,  6 May 2004 08:33:52 -0400
From: "Chris Norloff" <cnorloff@XXXXXX>
Reply-To: <cnorloff@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Cute super-squid?

Guess I'll have to try that one from home ... here I got a

"Access denied because of inappropriate content -
Lifestyle, Nudity"

:-)
Chris Norloff


---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Date:  Thu, 06 May 2004 02:43:23 -0400

>Talk about lack of proper equipment:
>
>http://www.diablosundevils.com/members_public/pages/Motorcycle_0005_NM_vera.
>htm
>
>That's *motorcycle riding* equipment anyway...
>
>
>-- Mike B.
>
>'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)
>
>Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
>is better.
>
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May  6 08:46:43 2004
Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 05:46:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brian Ray <bdaleray@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Cute super-squid?
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Yeah, you will.  I actually made it to the site, from
my work computer.  Whoops.

In the future, please note "not work-safe" for similar
material....

Thanks,

Brian

--- Chris Norloff <cnorloff@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Guess I'll have to try that one from home ... here I
> got a
>
> "Access denied because of inappropriate content -
> Lifestyle, Nudity"
>
> :-)
> Chris Norloff
>
>




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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May  6 09:26:10 2004
From: "Michael Jordan" <mjordan812@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Cute super-squid?
Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 09:26:02 -0400

> Guess I'll have to try that one from home ... here I got a
> "Access denied because of inappropriate content - Lifestyle, Nudity"

Site has the word "Nude" in the banner. Pic was pretty tame (it's AMAZING
how much coverage a Gold Wing mirror provides).

Michael J.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May  6 09:29:08 2004
From: "Michael Jordan" <mjordan812@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Quick note from Colorado
Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 09:28:59 -0400

> Rita and I are planning our first overnight trip some time
> next week hopefully. I'll post the trip when we get back.

Don't forget to go to Fairplay and get the obligatory picture of Mr. Hanky
at South Park

Michael J.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May  6 09:36:15 2004
From: "Michael Jordan" <mjordan812@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Blogs
Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 09:36:05 -0400

Two lovely sites to spend a rainy day at are:

www.alpineroads.com - maintained by a couple of Brits. Perhaps a bit exotic,
but what the hey.

www.advrider.com - lotsa stuff - mainly focused at the BMW GS crowd, but a
good overall representation and did I say LOTS of stuff?

Michael J.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May  6 09:58:02 2004
From: Stephen Miller <freecat@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Blogs
Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 09:58:18 -0400
To: DC-Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

I'm a fan of the blue-haired, red SV650S-riding Carolyn of
http://bluepoof.blogs.com

On May 6, 2004, at 9:36 AM, Michael Jordan wrote:

> Two lovely sites to spend a rainy day at are:
>
> www.alpineroads.com - maintained by a couple of Brits. Perhaps a bit
> exotic,
> but what the hey.
>
> www.advrider.com - lotsa stuff - mainly focused at the BMW GS crowd,
> but a
> good overall representation and did I say LOTS of stuff?
>
> Michael J.
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May  6 10:25:50 2004
Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 07:25:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" <pltrgyst@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Quick note from Colorado
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

> Don't forget to go to Fairplay and get the obligatory picture of Mr. Hanky
> at South Park

Where -- at the official "South Park" trailer?

-- Larry





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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May  6 11:43:05 2004
Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 08:42:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Quick note from Colorado
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX


--- rich hall <richallmc@XXXXXX> wrote:
> 123, just inside the beltway there is one of these.
>

I hadn't seen one before even though I've been through Denver a couple of
times. It certainly makes a difference at night while riding.

Carl

=====
02 Harley FXSTI
95 Suzuki GSXR 750W
76 Honda Chopper (in progress)




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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May  6 11:43:33 2004
Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 08:43:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Quick note from Colorado
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX


--- Michael Jordan <mjordan812@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > Rita and I are planning our first overnight trip some time
> > next week hopefully. I'll post the trip when we get back.
>
> Don't forget to go to Fairplay and get the obligatory picture of Mr.
> Hanky
> at South Park

(makes a note)  :-)  Thanks, I'll check that out.

>
> Michael J.
>

Carl

=====
02 Harley FXSTI
95 Suzuki GSXR 750W
76 Honda Chopper (in progress)




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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May  6 12:37:29 2004
Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 12:34:39 -0400
From: Skip <skip@XXXXXX>
To: Michael Jordan <mjordan812@XXXXXX>
CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Cute super-squid?

Michael Jordan wrote:
>
> > Guess I'll have to try that one from home ... here I got a
> > "Access denied because of inappropriate content - Lifestyle, Nudity"
>
> Site has the word "Nude" in the banner. Pic was pretty tame (it's AMAZING
> how much coverage a Gold Wing mirror provides).
>
> Michael J.

I'll go one step further and say that the site was completely tame, inasmuch as
you cannot see **anything**.

now I just needs me a uid/pw

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May  6 13:20:42 2004
Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 10:20:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Leon Begeman <mriderleon@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Riders/owners--mileage bragging rights
To: Bob McKeithen <bmckeithen@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX

Damn, the very first item on what appears to be an
interesting thread and I'm already kicked out of the
rider category and relegated to simply an owner.

After riding home from work last night, I mowed the
lawn instead of going riding.

Leon
Ninja 250 Owner.

--- Bob McKeithen <bmckeithen@XXXXXX> wrote:
> I classify motorcyclists into two groups-- Riders or
> Owners. And it not
> entirely a matter of miles--its more a matter of
> attitude. That said,
> below find a few suggestions--feel free to add yours
>
> You Are a Rider if:
>
> You ride the bike any chance you get
>





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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May  6 14:32:58 2004
Subject: Friday lunch RV -Shirlington
Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 14:36:27 -0400
From: "Julian Halton" <julian@XXXXXX>
To: "Leon Begeman" <mriderleon@XXXXXX>,
   "Bob McKeithen" <bmckeithen@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>


Tomorrow,

I am going to ride over to Carlisle Grand in Shirlington for lunch.
There is ample parking and it should be a beautiful day.  Anyone that
feels like coming out for a lunch is welcome to join me.


From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May  6 14:40:03 2004
Subject: RE: Friday lunch RV -Shirlington
Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 14:43:36 -0400
From: "Julian Halton" <julian@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

 I should arrive 12:15pm.

-----Original Message-----
From: Julian Halton [mailto:julian@XXXXXX]
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 2:36 PM
To: Leon Begeman; Bob McKeithen; dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Friday lunch RV -Shirlington


Tomorrow,

I am going to ride over to Carlisle Grand in Shirlington for lunch.
There is ample parking and it should be a beautiful day.  Anyone that
feels like coming out for a lunch is welcome to join me.





From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May  6 15:32:15 2004
Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 15:30:36 -0400
From: "Steven C. Di Pietro" <steven.dipietro@XXXXXX>
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Selling a MC
X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out011.verizon.net from [151.196.186.205] at Thu, 6 May 2004 14:32:12 -0500

Hi all,
             I need to quickly sell my 96 Suzuki Katana 600. I live in
Maryland. What's the best place to advertise for a quick turn around.

Steven C. Di Pietro
Interim National Director
The Suzuki Owners Club -USA
16 W. Jeffrey Street
Baltimore Md. 21225-1713
http://www.soc-usa.org
1996 Suzuki Katana 600
2001 Suzuki Marauder 800



From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May  6 15:34:33 2004
Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 12:34:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bryce <bster13@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Selling a MC
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

One national place is:

http://katanaplanet.com

Good luck,

Bryce
--- "Steven C. Di Pietro"
<steven.dipietro@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Hi all,
>              I need to quickly sell my 96 Suzuki
> Katana 600. I live in
> Maryland. What's the best place to advertise for a
> quick turn around.
>
> Steven C. Di Pietro
> Interim National Director
> The Suzuki Owners Club -USA
> 16 W. Jeffrey Street
> Baltimore Md. 21225-1713
> http://www.soc-usa.org
> 1996 Suzuki Katana 600
> 2001 Suzuki Marauder 800
>
>
>





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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May  6 15:37:12 2004
Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 12:36:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brian Ray <bdaleray@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Selling a MC
To: "Steven C. Di Pietro" <steven.dipietro@XXXXXX>,
   DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Stephen -

You might try

Craigslist (the DC Section) - www.craigslist.com - it
has free listings for most everything, including a
motorcycle section.

You might also try both DCSportbikes.com &
DCSportbikes.net

Brian


--- "Steven C. Di Pietro"
<steven.dipietro@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Hi all,
>              I need to quickly sell my 96 Suzuki
> Katana 600. I live in
> Maryland. What's the best place to advertise for a
> quick turn around.
>
> Steven C. Di Pietro
> Interim National Director
> The Suzuki Owners Club -USA
> 16 W. Jeffrey Street
> Baltimore Md. 21225-1713
> http://www.soc-usa.org
> 1996 Suzuki Katana 600
> 2001 Suzuki Marauder 800
>





__________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May  6 15:37:30 2004
From: "Sean Steele" <sean@XXXXXX>
To: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 15:37:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Selling a MC

Cycle Trader, definitely:
www.cycletrader.com

-Sean

Bryce wrote:

> One national place is:
>
> http://katanaplanet.com
>
> Good luck,
>
> Bryce
> --- "Steven C. Di Pietro"
> <steven.dipietro@XXXXXX> wrote:
>
>>Hi all,
>>             I need to quickly sell my 96 Suzuki
>>Katana 600. I live in
>>Maryland. What's the best place to advertise for a
>>quick turn around.
>>
>>Steven C. Di Pietro
>>Interim National Director
>>The Suzuki Owners Club -USA
>>16 W. Jeffrey Street
>>Baltimore Md. 21225-1713
>>http://www.soc-usa.org
>>1996 Suzuki Katana 600
>>2001 Suzuki Marauder 800
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
> http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
>
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May  6 15:37:34 2004
Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 12:37:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Adam Reinhardt <ajreinhardt@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Selling a MC
To: "Steven C. Di Pietro" <steven.dipietro@XXXXXX>,
   DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Probably e-Bay.  Take a look to see what other Katanas
are selling for on eBay and if you'd be happy with
that, then list it.



--- "Steven C. Di Pietro"
<steven.dipietro@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Hi all,
>              I need to quickly sell my 96 Suzuki
> Katana 600. I live in
> Maryland. What's the best place to advertise for a
> quick turn around.
>
> Steven C. Di Pietro
> Interim National Director
> The Suzuki Owners Club -USA
> 16 W. Jeffrey Street
> Baltimore Md. 21225-1713
> http://www.soc-usa.org
> 1996 Suzuki Katana 600
> 2001 Suzuki Marauder 800
>
>
>




__________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May  6 15:38:16 2004
Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 15:37:48 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
From: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
Reply-To: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
To: "Steven C. Di Pietro" <steven.dipietro@XXXXXX>,
   DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Selling a MC



-----Original Message-----
From: "Steven C. Di Pietro" <steven.dipietro@XXXXXX>


Hi all,
             I need to quickly sell my 96 Suzuki Katana 600. I live in
Maryland. What's the best place to advertise for a quick turn around.

Steven C. Di Pietro
----

Try www.craigslist.org.  I had calls within the first day when I sold my VF500F.  Newbie-type bikes esp., seem to get snapped up quickly.  It's also has the advantage of being free.

Craigslist has separate lists for Warshington and Balmer.

http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mcy/

http://baltimore.craigslist.org/mcy/

Balmer doesn't seem to have much traffic.







Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org
95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour]

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May  6 15:39:00 2004
Subject: RE: Selling a MC
Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 15:42:31 -0400
From: "Julian Halton" <julian@XXXXXX>
To: "Steven C. Di Pietro" <steven.dipietro@XXXXXX>,
   "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Here
www.ebay.com
www.cycletrader.com

Take some good digital pics, give  it a fair price and you should have
no problemo

-----Original Message-----
From: Steven C. Di Pietro [mailto:steven.dipietro@XXXXXX]
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 3:31 PM
To: DC Cycles
Subject: Selling a MC

Hi all,
             I need to quickly sell my 96 Suzuki Katana 600. I live in
Maryland. What's the best place to advertise for a quick turn around.

Steven C. Di Pietro
Interim National Director
The Suzuki Owners Club -USA
16 W. Jeffrey Street
Baltimore Md. 21225-1713
http://www.soc-usa.org
1996 Suzuki Katana 600
2001 Suzuki Marauder 800






From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May  6 15:40:32 2004
Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 12:40:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Adam Reinhardt <ajreinhardt@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Selling a MC
To: "Steven C. Di Pietro" <steven.dipietro@XXXXXX>,
   DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

I recently tried to sell a GS500 and after two people
committed to buy and then backed out, I put it on
eBay.  I ended up getting $75 less than my original
asking price, which was fine with me.  No more showing
the bike to guys who had to ask where the brake was.

Adam


--- "Steven C. Di Pietro"
<steven.dipietro@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Hi all,
>              I need to quickly sell my 96 Suzuki
> Katana 600. I live in
> Maryland. What's the best place to advertise for a
> quick turn around.
>
> Steven C. Di Pietro
> Interim National Director
> The Suzuki Owners Club -USA
> 16 W. Jeffrey Street
> Baltimore Md. 21225-1713
> http://www.soc-usa.org
> 1996 Suzuki Katana 600
> 2001 Suzuki Marauder 800
>
>
>




__________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May  6 15:46:45 2004
From: "rich hall" <richallmc@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: Selling a MC
Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 15:38:32 -0400

Ebay.

>From: "Steven C. Di Pietro" <steven.dipietro@XXXXXX>
>To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
>Subject: Selling a MC
>Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 15:30:36 -0400
>
>Hi all,
>             I need to quickly sell my 96 Suzuki Katana 600. I live in
>Maryland. What's the best place to advertise for a quick turn around.
>
>Steven C. Di Pietro
>Interim National Director
>The Suzuki Owners Club -USA
>16 W. Jeffrey Street
>Baltimore Md. 21225-1713
>http://www.soc-usa.org
>1996 Suzuki Katana 600
>2001 Suzuki Marauder 800
>
>
>

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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May  6 15:48:11 2004
From: "Rob Keiser" <robkeiser@XXXXXX>
To: steven.dipietro@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: Selling a MC
Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 15:36:58 -0400

The Washington Post, would get my vote.

They usually have some 3 day, 3 line specials...best days are
Friday/Sat/Sunday, but need to be in by like 6 PM a couple days before.
Sold my last bike and 2 cars that way. YMMV.

Good luck.

Rob
'98 VFR800


From: "Steven C. Di Pietro" <steven.dipietro@XXXXXX>
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Selling a MC
Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 15:30:36 -0400

Hi all,
             I need to quickly sell my 96 Suzuki Katana 600. I live in
Maryland. What's the best place to advertise for a quick turn around.

Steven C. Di Pietro
Interim National Director
The Suzuki Owners Club -USA
16 W. Jeffrey Street
Baltimore Md. 21225-1713
http://www.soc-usa.org
1996 Suzuki Katana 600
2001 Suzuki Marauder 800


From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May  6 15:50:17 2004
Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 15:47:56 -0400
To: <cnorloff@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Cute super-squid?

At 08:33 AM 5/6/04 -0400, Chris Norloff wrote:
>Guess I'll have to try that one from home ... here I got a
>
>"Access denied because of inappropriate content -
>Lifestyle, Nudity"
>
>:-)
>Chris Norloff

Why is that blocked?  I can understand them blocking porn sites, but nudity
isn't porn.  I guess whoever runs your system is like the folks at AOL who
set up a system that blocked porn groups by keyword.  The "Breast Cancer
Survivor's Forum" weren't at all pleased to be informed that they were a
porn site due to the use of the word "breast"...no word on how Frank Purdue
handled the situation...

Americans are so...immature...at times (most polite term I can think of
that seems to apply).  I wonder what it would take to get counselling for
enough people here to get the country to lighten up a bit and use some
common sense?

-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May  6 15:50:30 2004
Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 15:50:18 -0400
To: Brian Ray <bdaleray@XXXXXX>, DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Cute super-squid?

What constitutes "not work safe"??  That picture was pretty tame.  I've
seen worse on prime time TV, in the ads for shampoo and bath products.
What kind of foaming at the mouth prudes do you work for anyway??

-- Mike B.

At 05:46 AM 5/6/04 -0700, Brian Ray wrote:
>Yeah, you will.  I actually made it to the site, from
>my work computer.  Whoops.
>
>In the future, please note "not work-safe" for similar
>material....
>
>Thanks,
>
>Brian
>
>--- Chris Norloff <cnorloff@XXXXXX> wrote:
>> Guess I'll have to try that one from home ... here I
>> got a
>>
>> "Access denied because of inappropriate content -
>> Lifestyle, Nudity"
>>
>> :-)
>> Chris Norloff
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>__________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
>http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May  6 15:54:43 2004
Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 15:54:34 -0400
To: Leon Begeman <mriderleon@XXXXXX>,
   Bob McKeithen <bmckeithen@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Riders/owners--mileage bragging rights

At 10:20 AM 5/6/04 -0700, Leon Begeman wrote:
>Damn, the very first item on what appears to be an
>interesting thread and I'm already kicked out of the
>rider category and relegated to simply an owner.
>
>After riding home from work last night, I mowed the
>lawn instead of going riding.

Mine needed mowing too, but I used the excuse that it got rained on at 5pm
to go for some 100 mile ice cream up in Reisterstown with the HOGs last
night.  It still needs cutting, and it's drying out, but I think the bike
needs another trip...we'll see.

-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May  6 17:29:30 2004
From: "rich hall" <richallmc@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: Selling a MC
Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 17:18:57 -0400

I had very little reponse in June from an ad in the Post last yr.  Seca II,
same people would probably be looking at a Katana.
Put it on EBay w/ a reserve.  Didn't make reserve, negotiated w/ the highest
bidder.  $50 less I wanted, think it cost $50 to list on Ebay.  So $100 less
than I wanted.  I sold random stock parts off it on Ebay to get that $100
back.

>From: "Rob Keiser" <robkeiser@XXXXXX>
>To: steven.dipietro@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
>Subject: RE: Selling a MC
>Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 15:36:58 -0400
>
>The Washington Post, would get my vote.
>
>They usually have some 3 day, 3 line specials...best days are
>Friday/Sat/Sunday, but need to be in by like 6 PM a couple days before.
>Sold my last bike and 2 cars that way. YMMV.
>
>Good luck.
>
>Rob
>'98 VFR800
>
>
>From: "Steven C. Di Pietro" <steven.dipietro@XXXXXX>
>To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
>Subject: Selling a MC
>Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 15:30:36 -0400
>
>Hi all,
>             I need to quickly sell my 96 Suzuki Katana 600. I live in
>Maryland. What's the best place to advertise for a quick turn around.
>
>Steven C. Di Pietro
>Interim National Director
>The Suzuki Owners Club -USA
>16 W. Jeffrey Street
>Baltimore Md. 21225-1713
>http://www.soc-usa.org
>1996 Suzuki Katana 600
>2001 Suzuki Marauder 800
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May  6 17:29:43 2004
From: "rich hall" <richallmc@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Cute super-squid?
Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 17:19:37 -0400

Most of work in offices not our home.

>From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
>To: Brian Ray <bdaleray@XXXXXX>, DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
>Subject: Re: Cute super-squid?
>Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 15:50:18 -0400
>
>What constitutes "not work safe"??  That picture was pretty tame.  I've
>seen worse on prime time TV, in the ads for shampoo and bath products.
>What kind of foaming at the mouth prudes do you work for anyway??
>
>-- Mike B.
>
>At 05:46 AM 5/6/04 -0700, Brian Ray wrote:
> >Yeah, you will.  I actually made it to the site, from
> >my work computer.  Whoops.
> >
> >In the future, please note "not work-safe" for similar
> >material....
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >Brian
> >
> >--- Chris Norloff <cnorloff@XXXXXX> wrote:
> >> Guess I'll have to try that one from home ... here I
> >> got a
> >>
> >> "Access denied because of inappropriate content -
> >> Lifestyle, Nudity"
> >>

_________________________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May  6 18:23:27 2004
Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 18:23:25 -0400
To: "rich hall" <richallmc@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Cute super-squid?

So?  I used to work in an office, but that picture wouldn't have caused a
stir there, or been banned by the software we ran.  Everyone who worked
there was an adult, so there wasn't any need for such censorship.

Just trying to figure out what will need a "caution, not work safe!" label
on it.  Someone screwing goats I'd have figured needed a warning anywhere
outside the Iran, but something that could appear on prime time TV, and
which wouldn't have been a problem at places I've worked in the past,
didn't seem to warrant one...but you think it did, so I'm looking for some
guidelines.  What will cause you problems at work?  What was it about that
URL that caused the problem?  The title?  The picture of a woman "wearing"
a tour bike rather than cloth or leather?  The purpose of the site it
appeared on?  What?

There's nothing about that URL or what it leads to that I see any problem
with, and I'd have no concern pointing any of my friends (male, female,
married, single, or otherwise) to it.  Your worksite obviously has a
different culture, so some hints as to what it will have problems with
would be useful if you want warnings in future.

-- Mike B.

At 05:19 PM 5/6/04 -0400, rich hall wrote:
>Most of work in offices not our home.
>
>>From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
>>
>>What constitutes "not work safe"??  That picture was pretty tame.  I've
>>seen worse on prime time TV, in the ads for shampoo and bath products.
>>What kind of foaming at the mouth prudes do you work for anyway??
>>
>>-- Mike B.
>>
>>At 05:46 AM 5/6/04 -0700, Brian Ray wrote:
>> >Yeah, you will.  I actually made it to the site, from
>> >my work computer.  Whoops.
>> >
>> >In the future, please note "not work-safe" for similar
>> >material....
>> >
>> >Thanks,
>> >
>> >Brian

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May  6 18:33:43 2004
From: "Michael Jordan" <mjordan812@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Cute super-squid?
Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 18:33:34 -0400

In all probability, the word "nude" triggered the rejection. Undoubtedly one
of many words that would have the same result.

Perhaps even "goat"

Michael "Who's your D-a-a-a-a-a-a-dy" J.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May  6 19:00:04 2004
Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 19:00:20 -0400
To: "Michael Jordan" <mjordan812@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Cute super-squid?

At 06:33 PM 5/6/04 -0400, Michael Jordan wrote:
>In all probability, the word "nude" triggered the rejection. Undoubtedly one
>of many words that would have the same result.
>
>Perhaps even "goat"

Yeah, given the human mind's fixation on sex, *anything* can be made into a
suggestive word.

Steve Alan used to do that to have fun with the censors when he was host of
the Tonight Show (before Johnny Carson...who was before Jay Leno).  He'd do
things like look through the yellow pages to see if anything humorous
turned up.  One time he found a "Big A Cleaners" listing, so he called them
up and asked, "How much to get my "Big A" cleaned?" and the audience broke
up, because they knew what he was implying, and that the censors had just
been circumvented.

The Grease Man turned that into an art form on his shows...he had a whole
dictionary of words that he'd made up, but everyone listening to his show
(the adults anyway) knew exactly what they meant from context...but they
weren't on the FCC's banned list of things you can't say and keep your
license.

-- Mike B.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May  6 19:04:24 2004
From: "Rob Keiser" <robkeiser@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: Cute super-squid?
Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 19:04:16 -0400

Who gives a crap?!

Bikes, people, bikes!   If you're not going to be out riding, at least talk
about them.



From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
To: "Michael Jordan" <mjordan812@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Cute super-squid?
Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 19:00:20 -0400

At 06:33 PM 5/6/04 -0400, Michael Jordan wrote:
 >In all probability, the word "nude" triggered the rejection. Undoubtedly
one
 >of many words that would have the same result.
 >
 >Perhaps even "goat"

Yeah, given the human mind's fixation on sex, *anything* can be made into a
suggestive word.

Steve Alan used to do that to have fun with the censors when he was host of
the Tonight Show (before Johnny Carson...who was before Jay Leno).  He'd do
things like look through the yellow pages to see if anything humorous
turned up.  One time he found a "Big A Cleaners" listing, so he called them
up and asked, "How much to get my "Big A" cleaned?" and the audience broke
up, because they knew what he was implying, and that the censors had just
been circumvented.

The Grease Man turned that into an art form on his shows...he had a whole
dictionary of words that he'd made up, but everyone listening to his show
(the adults anyway) knew exactly what they meant from context...but they
weren't on the FCC's banned list of things you can't say and keep your
license.

-- Mike B.


From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May  6 20:02:18 2004
Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 20:01:54 -0400
From: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>
To: Leon Begeman <mriderleon@XXXXXX>
CC: Bob McKeithen <bmckeithen@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Riders/owners--mileage bragging rights

Leon Begeman wrote:
> Damn, the very first item on what appears to be an
> interesting thread and I'm already kicked out of the
> rider category and relegated to simply an owner.
>
> After riding home from work last night, I mowed the
> lawn instead of going riding.

Leon is a poser.  :)

Hork
--
Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)

Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX '98 Concours - BugSlayer
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth      '99 Concours - Grape Nehi
CM #001 NRA IBA COG                  '82 GS850G - Neat old bike

The Mason Dixon 20-20 Endurance Rally:  The Games People Play
Come join us in 2004:   http://www.masondixon20-20.org

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May  6 23:40:10 2004
Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 20:40:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Re: Dressing for the crash
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX


--- adamme1@XXXXXX wrote:
> Laura,
>
> What surprises me is the Harley crowd.  We spend upwards of
> $25k for a bike and then bitch about how much synthetic
> oil changes and maintenance cost.
>

$14k and $420 or so for fluid changes is still fricking expensive :-)

BTW, the Harley is in the shop for the 30k. It seems to like the shop for
each of the 10k marks

10k: Oil leaking from cam cover. Upon QA, they discovered a problem in the
timing area (mismatched shim; caused mucho damage and a 6 week wait)

20k: Security module failure. Had to truck it to the dealer. Found a fuel
cell problem that took two visits to fix. It took so long that I briefly
forgot how to start the bike (!)

30k: Fork leak at the top of the left fork, probably due to the
construction at Springfield since the Suzuki has a leaking right fork. It
also has a engine issue; the check engine light goes out, I start, it
comes back on for about 5 seconds and then goes away. I'm thinking it's
the difference between sea-level and mile-high; possibly an EFI
adjustment.

> -aki
>

Carl

=====
02 Harley FXSTI
95 Suzuki GSXR 750W
76 Honda Chopper (in progress)




__________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May  7 00:04:30 2004
Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 21:04:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: tars... local and online
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX


--- Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX> wrote:
> At 01:51 PM 4/28/04 -0400, ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote:
> >Ummmm.......non-Harley rims actually get used and need the tires
> replaced
> more than every 10 years?  ;-)  Sorry, couldn't resist.
> >
> >Scooter (ducking and running)
>
> Yeah, you'd better run, if you don't want over half a ton of motorcycle
> and
> rider running over you for remarks like that!  :-)
>
> As for riding then, how many miles did *you* get logged since last
> October?

*I* got 7 or 8k I think. It was at the 20k mark after getting back from
Boise in August. I put a K or so on before it died (security module) and
I'm at 29.8k now so figure 22k or so in September.

>  Despite the first few weeks being spent in the local neighborhood and
> parking lots getting used to riding again, I've got a bit over 2600
> miles
> since then.  That's not a huge total for some, but it *was* winter for
> most
> of it...

And a fine winter it was. Nine degree coldest riding temp in January and 8
degree for last year (17 degree for the previous year).

>
> -- Mike B.

Carl


=====
02 Harley FXSTI
95 Suzuki GSXR 750W
76 Honda Chopper (in progress)




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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May  7 00:58:00 2004
From: "Rob Sharp" <rob@XXXXXX>
To: "Michael Jordan" <mjordan812@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Cute super-squid?
Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 00:59:19 -0400

There are giant databases of URLS that are classified for sale by companies
like websense and surf control.  I have setup system as restrictive as to only
allow access to certain sites, cut off web surfing after 15 continous minutes,
ect ect... (job related).

The systems I have worked with are based totally off URL and keywords in the
URL.  And the have people who just look for bad URL's all day (college
students, ect) and catagorize them.

All I know is I wouldn't want to show up on a report accesing a nudist site.
At the very least it's embaressing and the worst it could get you fired.  So
just put the little warning on the email ok?


Rob


On Thu, 6 May 2004 18:33:34 -0400, Michael Jordan wrote
> In all probability, the word "nude" triggered the rejection.
> Undoubtedly one of many words that would have the same result.
>
> Perhaps even "goat"
>
> Michael "Who's your D-a-a-a-a-a-a-dy" J.


--
Rob Sharp
1996 Honda VFR 750
2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme
SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA
Network Security Engineer

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May  7 00:58:24 2004
From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 00:38:52 EDT
Subject: Not moto related, just theater
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

It seems to me that there was someone(s) on this list that was into live
theater. If so could you ping me offlist.

John.
PenguinBiker@XXXXXX

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May  7 01:00:15 2004
From: "Rob Sharp" <rob@XXXXXX>
To: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>, <cnorloff@XXXXXX>,
   <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Cute super-squid?
Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 00:49:26 -0400

American's are litigious and cheap.  Companies block that stuff for employees
to save from getting sued somehow and to increase productive.  It *AINT* cause
we are immature.  Except maybe in cases like it being blocked in the library
but then again library's don't stock playboys either :)

Regards,
Rob

On Thu, 06 May 2004 15:47:56 -0400, Mike Bartman wrote
> At 08:33 AM 5/6/04 -0400, Chris Norloff wrote:
> >Guess I'll have to try that one from home ... here I got a
> >
> >"Access denied because of inappropriate content -
> >Lifestyle, Nudity"
> >
> >:-)
> >Chris Norloff
>
> Why is that blocked?  I can understand them blocking porn sites, but
> nudity isn't porn.  I guess whoever runs your system is like the
> folks at AOL who set up a system that blocked porn groups by
> keyword.  The "Breast Cancer Survivor's Forum" weren't at all
> pleased to be informed that they were a porn site due to the use of
> the word "breast"...no word on how Frank Purdue handled the situation...
>
> Americans are so...immature...at times (most polite term I can think
> of that seems to apply).  I wonder what it would take to get
> counselling for enough people here to get the country to lighten up
> a bit and use some common sense?
>
> -- Mike B.
>
> '04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-
> Harley folks)
>
> Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
> is better.


--
Rob Sharp
1996 Honda VFR 750
2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme
SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA
Network Security Engineer

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May  7 01:07:30 2004
Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 21:40:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: RE Mileage Bragging Rights
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX


--- Doug Allis <dhallis@XXXXXX> wrote:
> You guys are really long distance motorcycle WIMPS!  1200 miles, 2,400
> miles
> or 5,000 miles a year?  Don't talk to me about being a real rider until
> you
> approach 10,000 miles a year.

I have ~30k starting in June of 2002. Rides to The Dragon and Idaho are
probably 10k of the total with various smaller rides adding to another 5k
and not including the 5k or so I put on the gixxer while the Harley was in
the shop ;-)

> Q: Which form of transportation do you
> prefer
> when you are alone and rain is likely?

For riding to work and home? Probably the Suzuki although I've put some
wet miles on the Harley. That's mainly helmet dynamics though. If I could
keep the rain from getting in my eyes on the Harley I might lean in that
direction more often.

Other than the ride to work, probably the car mainly cause it's for a
short ride to 7/11 or Home Depot and it's too much trouble to get dressed
up for a short ride.

> If it is a car, you are not
> really a
> high mileage rider (unless you live in a desert). Are you comfortable
> riding
> your bike in heavy rain?  If not then you ought to think about how
> serious a
> rider you really are.

Absolutely. That's some of the funner riding IMO.

>
> Me? 59,800 miles since May 1999 on my "new" bike. Before that I never
> really
> bothered to keep track, but 10,000 miles a year is prob a fair guess for
>
> 1993-1999.    I now do "slightly" less than 12,000 miles a year average.
>
> Most in one year... close to 15,000, when I rode the Blue Ridge Parkway
> and
> Skyline Drive down to the dragon, then over to Carolina Beach, back to
> DC on
> the same route, and then two trips up and around the Finger Lakes in NY
> over
> some long weekends and a vacation.

I want to run around the great lakes again. I just hit the top side and
only lightly. A more sedate pace this time would be nicer. Perhaps with
Rita on her bike and after the ride from here to Boise -> Seattle -> San
Francisco -> Las Vegas -> Tuscon -> home in August. I want to show Rita
the coast highway :-)

>  My PC-800

Is that the Honda 750cc scooter? That's the first picture that popped up
for PC-800 with a review on a follow up link.

> likes long twisty rides
> the
> most, but is comfy enough for the boringest highways that we all have to
>
> deal with sometime.  The best part is that the seat is comfy for up to 4
>
> hours at a time, with only streach breaks, the second best part... 4,000
>
> miles on the thing without doing anything but check the oil and air
> pressure. True tist not the sportiest bike, but it is one that grows on
> you
> as you pile on the miles.

The Corbin seat makes for a pretty nice and comfortable ride. I did have
to replace about a quart and a half of oil on the Harley but never any
problems with air in the tires. Course I had Avons put on prior to the
ride so maybe new tires had something to do with it.

>
> Oh, and compared to others that own this bike, I'm a wimp.  There are
> guys
> on the PCcycles list that have put over 200,000 miles on this bike....
> in
> about 10 years.

I'm working on it. Give me some time ;-)

>

Carl


=====
02 Harley FXSTI
95 Suzuki GSXR 750W
76 Honda Chopper (in progress)




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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May  7 01:20:08 2004
Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 21:20:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: tars... local and online
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX


--- Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX> wrote:
> At 04:38 AM 4/29/04 -0700, Tom Gimer wrote:
> >--- Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX> wrote:
> >as for carl, we all know he commuted ~100 miles per day.
> >should we worship him for choosing an h-d over an econobox?
>
> Sounds like a plan.
>

60 miles per day. And I enjoyed every minute of it (well, except when the
security module crapped out and we had to push it up in to the truck in
the pouring rain, on the plus side, I got to leave work early :-)

Let's see how I do now that I'm on a lengthy vacation ;-)


> -- Mike B.

Carl


=====
02 Harley FXSTI
95 Suzuki GSXR 750W
76 Honda Chopper (in progress)




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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May  7 07:09:56 2004
From: "W.S." <mobacc@XXXXXX>
To: "DC-Cycles" <DC-Cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject:  Re: Riders/owners--mileage bragging rights
Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 07:09:34 -0400

For those who wish to make motorcycle-clan official the length of their, er,
uh, mileage, the AMA has "Long Rider" patches and decals.  (My 50K decal has
"Emeritus" at the bottom which issuance is said to be shortlived.  But!  As
long as I have it, add another set of initials after my name?)


http://www.amadirectlink.com/roadride/mileage.asp


Bill S. / DC
'99 VN750 > Put an odo on your forehead, dummy.
Join the AMA.  Help protect my riding fun.



From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May  7 07:31:15 2004
Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 21:24:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>
Subject: OT: Emoticons (was: Re: tars... local and online)
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX


--- Dave Yates <Dave@XXXXXX> wrote:
> <snippage>
> >Oh, and a free clue for you:  the ":-)" sequence is called
> >a "smiley".  It indicates that the statement made is not
> >intended seriously.  Note that there isn't one on this
> >response.
>
> [Dave]  Well...  You get what you pay for. :-)  The above
> ascii reference is more correctly referred to as
> an "emoticon", but in slang, 'smiley' is acceptable in some
> cases... However, this emoticon :-( is not a smiley...  (is
> it a frownie?)

It's trademarked. See http://www.despair.com for the full story. I think
they're charging 5 bucks for the use of the "frownie" in e-mail.

> Dave Yates

Carl


=====
02 Harley FXSTI
95 Suzuki GSXR 750W
76 Honda Chopper (in progress)




__________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May  7 09:52:08 2004
Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 09:48:51 -0400
From: Skip <skip@XXXXXX>
To: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
CC: Michael Jordan <mjordan812@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Cute super-squid?

Mike Bartman wrote:

> The Grease Man turned that into an art form on his shows...he had a whole
> dictionary of words that he'd made up, but everyone listening to his show
> (the adults anyway) knew exactly what they meant from context...but they
> weren't on the FCC's banned list of things you can't say and keep your
> license.

well, aside from "Kill four more and get the whole week off!"

--skip

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May  7 10:04:16 2004
Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 07:03:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" <pltrgyst@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: OT: Emoticons (was: Re: tars... local and online)
To: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX

--- Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > [Dave] .... However, this emoticon :-( is not a smiley...  (is
> > it a frownie?)
>
> It's trademarked. See http://www.despair.com for the full story. I think
> they're charging 5 bucks for the use of the "frownie" in e-mail.

Sorry, but that's just 'Net crap. Trademarks apply only in the particular fields
of commerce for which they are issued. There can be many trademarks for the
identical text or logo, so long as they exist in fields which will not be
confused (often decided by a court).

The 8:( trademark, for example, applies to "International Class: 016  Printed
matter namely, greeting cards, posters and art prints"

It does not apply to email -- that is simply a Web scam on the part of the
despair.com company.

There are also multiple trademarks for other emoticons, such as:

      :-)  Goods and Services  IC 025. US 022 039. G & S: clothing.

which applies only to clothing bearing that particular emoticon.

-- Larry







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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May  7 10:07:47 2004
Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 10:07:33 -0400
To: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Re: Dressing for the crash

At 08:40 PM 5/6/04 -0700, Carl Schelin wrote:
>It
>also has a engine issue; the check engine light goes out, I start, it
>comes back on for about 5 seconds and then goes away. I'm thinking it's
>the difference between sea-level and mile-high; possibly an EFI
>adjustment.

Maybe, but couldn't it also be the oil?  If the oil pressure doesn't come
up properly, I think that will trigger the light.  Maybe it's taking longer
than it should to reach full pressure?  Causes could be clogged filter, low
oil level, worn oil pump, or maybe something else?  Do you have the oil
pressure gauge on your bike?

The EFI with the stock map is supposed to be good enough everywhere.  Not
ideal, but good enough.  At sea level it tends to run a little lean, so
where you are now it's probably ok to slightly rich.  Unless you get a TFI,
Power Commander or something similar, I don't think it's adjustable.  They
have different maps for things like the Stage I aircleaner kit, but for any
given hardware setup, I think there's only one map from H-D.

-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May  7 10:10:38 2004
Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 07:10:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" <pltrgyst@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: OT: Emoticons (was: Re: tars... local and online)
To: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX

Forgot to mention that I do have a couple of despair.com's posters hanging in my
office, though. They're the cynic's perfect response to all the motivational crap
that companies (and the government) often hang in the halls.

-- Larry





__________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May  7 10:19:09 2004
Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 10:17:07 -0400
To: "Rob Sharp" <rob@XXXXXX>, <cnorloff@XXXXXX>,
   <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Cute super-squid?

At 12:49 AM 5/7/04 -0400, Rob Sharp wrote:
>American's are litigious and cheap.  Companies block that stuff for employees
>to save from getting sued somehow and to increase productive.  It *AINT*
cause
>we are immature.

Ummm...if we aren't immature, why would getting sued for something like
that be an issue in the first place?

As for increasing productivity, ok, I can buy that, but only if they block
all non-work-related sites.  Like, say, those having to do with moto
racing, moto clothes, and motorcycles (unless that's your industry).  Are
those blocked too?  I doubt it...

The reason why that site might be an issue, but one showing the winners of
last week's race isn't, is that Americans are, as a whole, at about the Jr.
High school level of maturity when it comes to nudity or anything
resembling it.  You can almost hear the "heh, heh, heh, heh" noises any
time anything related to it comes up.  Compare to most other parts of the
world, and only the fanatical Islamic countries are more uptight about it
than we are.  It's just sad.

However, as was pointed out, it's only very remotely related to motos, so
I'll drop it here.  The original intent was moto-related, as the subject
indicates, but the resulting thread isn't.  If anyone wants to continue in
direct mail, you know where I am.



-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May  7 10:25:55 2004
Subject: Lunch today
Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 10:29:27 -0400
From: "Julian Halton" <julian@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>


I am heading out to Carlisle Grand in Shirlington for lunch. I will be
there at 12:15pm. There is parking in front, off to the side and tons of
spaces by the nearby theater. It is easy to get too, right off the 395,
shirlington exit, first left.
Any of you listers are welcome to join me and say hello!


From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May  7 10:31:25 2004
Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 10:30:45 -0400
To: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: OT: Emoticons (was: Re: tars... local and online)

At 09:24 PM 5/6/04 -0700, Carl Schelin wrote:
>
>It's trademarked. See http://www.despair.com for the full story. I think
>they're charging 5 bucks for the use of the "frownie" in e-mail.

Ok, I guess we have to make an example of them and put them out of business
for such an unfriendly attempt to hijack public property for private use.
Let's all not ever buy anything from these people.

I don't know what the USPTO is thinking these days.  Their collective IQ
seems to have plummeted.  They've issued patents on the XOR operation,
despite many decades of prior art, and now they are trademarking
collections of punctuation marks, when they have been in common use for
many years as a form of expression.  It would be like me trademarking
"FUCK" and trying to collect every time someone hits their thumb with a
hammer.  It's absurd.


-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May  7 10:31:46 2004
Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 10:23:39 -0400
To: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: RE Mileage Bragging Rights

At 09:40 PM 5/6/04 -0700, Carl Schelin wrote:
>If I could
>keep the rain from getting in my eyes on the Harley I might lean in that
>direction more often.

Goggles?  Maybe that's why more Harley riders than other types wear
non-full-face helmets?  ;-)

>Other than the ride to work, probably the car mainly cause it's for a
>short ride to 7/11 or Home Depot and it's too much trouble to get dressed
>up for a short ride.

Also depends what I'm going for.  I can carry 3 sheets of 3/4" plywood on
the roof rack of the Jeep, and/or fit a table saw (unassembled) in the
back, but the bike's cargo capacity isn't anywhere near that good...

-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May  7 10:32:45 2004
Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 10:32:40 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
From: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
Reply-To: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
To: Julian Halton <julian@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Lunch today


-----Original Message-----
From: Julian Halton <julian@XXXXXX>

I am heading out to Carlisle Grand in Shirlington for lunch. I will be
there at 12:15pm. There is parking in front, off to the side and tons of
spaces by the nearby theater. It is easy to get too, right off the 395,
shirlington exit, first left.
Any of you listers are welcome to join me and say hello!

--------------

Barring any calamities, the Kawitractor and I should be there.





Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org
95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour]

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May  7 10:32:58 2004
Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 10:30:04 -0400
From: Skip <skip@XXXXXX>
CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Dressing for the crash



Carl Schelin wrote:
>
> --- adamme1@XXXXXX wrote:
> > Laura,
> >
> > What surprises me is the Harley crowd.  We spend upwards of
> > $25k for a bike and then bitch about how much synthetic
> > oil changes and maintenance cost.
> >
>
> $14k and $420 or so for fluid changes is still fricking expensive :-)
>
> BTW, the Harley is in the shop for the 30k. It seems to like the shop for
> each of the 10k marks.

so I'm coming out of work, heading to my bike, and the fedEx guy says, "hey!
when're you gonna get a real bike?"

"huh?"

"you know...  A harley!"

"I need a bike that runs reliably.  I guess I'll just keep my 20 year old Honda"

<hit starter button for less than a second, bike fires up>

nod, smile, put on helmet.


:~)

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May  7 10:43:36 2004
Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 10:42:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: dan <dan@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: Selling a MC

On Thu, 6 May 2004, rich hall wrote:

> I had very little reponse in June from an ad in the Post last yr.  Seca II,
> same people would probably be looking at a Katana.
> Put it on EBay w/ a reserve.  Didn't make reserve, negotiated w/ the highest
> bidder.  $50 less I wanted, think it cost $50 to list on Ebay.  So $100 less
> than I wanted.  I sold random stock parts off it on Ebay to get that $100
> back.
>

Had the same response last year trying to sell a Ducati Monster.  A few
calls from the Post, all looking for "deals".  I had the bike listed for
1/2 way between trade and NADA.  No one came to look.  Put it on ebay, got
TONS of email and ended up getting 150 less than what we wanted and it was
gone in a week.  Bypassed the post and went direct to ebay with a Jeep
Wrangler, I ended up getting FULL KBB RETAIL!  Two bits of advice:

1.  Watch out for the scammers that are all too quick to send you a check.
I don't think I'd be confortable taking anything other than cash or
paypal.  These days I'd actually take a personal check before a cashiers
check.  If you do take one, take it to the bank it was drawn on and get
cash, then hand over the title.

2.  Post lots of pics and give lots of detail.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May  7 10:44:41 2004
Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 07:44:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" <pltrgyst@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: OT: Emoticons (was: Re: tars... local and online)
To: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX

--- Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX> wrote:
> I don't know what the USPTO is thinking these days.  Their collective IQ
> seems to have plummeted.  They've issued patents on the XOR operation,

...the issuance of software patents was decided by a court, not the PTO.

> despite many decades of prior art

Patent examiners are piece workers. To make their monthly quotas and receive
their full pay, they have something like 4 hours to spend on each patent, which
typically includes 2 hours for searching. The commercial software prior art
experts, like Greg Aharonian (www.bustpatents.com), know the weaknesses of the
system better than anyone and rouse enough rabble to get the most egregious cases
either re-examined by PTO or thrown out by courts.

>.... and now they are trademarking
> collections of punctuation marks, when they have been in common use for
> many years as a form of expression.  It would be like me trademarking
> "FUCK" and trying to collect every time someone hits their thumb with a
> hammer.  It's absurd.

It also hasn't happened, and can't happen. It would help if you knew what you
were going off about at times, Mike.

-- Larry







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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May  7 11:24:37 2004
Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 11:22:41 -0400
To: Skip <skip@XXXXXX>
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Dressing for the crash
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

At 10:30 AM 5/7/04 -0400, Skip wrote:

>"you know...  A harley!"
>
>"I need a bike that runs reliably.  I guess I'll just keep my 20 year old
Honda"
>
><hit starter button for less than a second, bike fires up>

What makes you think Harley's aren't reliable?  Mine starts up like that
every time so far.  There are guys in the local club riding 1990, or older,
bikes that do the same thing.  Saw a segment of American Thunder last night
where a 1907 Harley was started first try...a properly maintained bike
should always do that.

There *is* one guy in the club with a rep for having breakdowns, but I
think he's riding a 1966 model, and he does his own maintenance.  He's the
same guy who's home-built chopper had issues on the Spring Tuneup Ride down
to Orange, VA...turns out he sheared the bolts holding his rear pulley to
the rear wheel.  There were no markings on the heads of the bolts he
used...[1]

-- Mike Bartman

[1] I may not be a mechanic, but even I know that that's a location where
Grade 8 bolts are normally used, and that such bolts always have markings
on the heads (5 lines, isn't it?  And probably, though not always, some
sort of maker's mark?).



From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May  7 11:31:40 2004
Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 08:31:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Re: Dressing for the crash
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX


--- Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX> wrote:
> At 08:40 PM 5/6/04 -0700, Carl Schelin wrote:
> >It
> >also has a engine issue; the check engine light goes out, I start, it
> >comes back on for about 5 seconds and then goes away. I'm thinking it's
> >the difference between sea-level and mile-high; possibly an EFI
> >adjustment.
>
> Maybe, but couldn't it also be the oil?  If the oil pressure doesn't
> come
> up properly, I think that will trigger the light.  Maybe it's taking
> longer
> than it should to reach full pressure?  Causes could be clogged filter,
> low
> oil level, worn oil pump, or maybe something else?  Do you have the oil
> pressure gauge on your bike?

I hadn't thought of that, but I also had checked the oil in VA prior to
coming out. I had to add a bit but it should have been ok as far as level
is concerned. No oil pressure gauge though.

>
> The EFI with the stock map is supposed to be good enough everywhere.
> Not
> ideal, but good enough.  At sea level it tends to run a little lean, so
> where you are now it's probably ok to slightly rich.  Unless you get a
> TFI,
> Power Commander or something similar, I don't think it's adjustable.
> They
> have different maps for things like the Stage I aircleaner kit, but for
> any
> given hardware setup, I think there's only one map from H-D.

Yea, I thought it was kind of weak but it was the only thing I could
speculate. Since I made the ride last year and don't recall seeing it
happen then, I wasn't fully convinced that was the problem.

We should find out today though. The last two times the dealer had the
bike for 4-6 weeks. I dropped it off this time on Wednesday for work on
Thursday. He said that they'd try to get it to me COB Thursday but they
_might_ take as long as Friday if that's ok. :-)

>
> -- Mike B.

Carl


=====
02 Harley FXSTI
95 Suzuki GSXR 750W
76 Honda Chopper (in progress)




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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May  7 11:34:22 2004
Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 08:34:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: OT: Emoticons (was: Re: tars... local and online)
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX


--- "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" <pltrgyst@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Forgot to mention that I do have a couple of despair.com's posters
> hanging in my
> office, though. They're the cynic's perfect response to all the
> motivational crap
> that companies (and the government) often hang in the halls.
>

I have a couple of the smaller ones from a calendar I had. I've been
wanting to get a couple of the full sized ones but I think I have enough
junk in the house now :-)

> -- Larry
>

Carl


=====
02 Harley FXSTI
95 Suzuki GSXR 750W
76 Honda Chopper (in progress)




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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May  7 11:40:40 2004
Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 08:40:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: RE Mileage Bragging Rights
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX


--- Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX> wrote:
> At 09:40 PM 5/6/04 -0700, Carl Schelin wrote:
> >If I could
> >keep the rain from getting in my eyes on the Harley I might lean in
> that
> >direction more often.
>
> Goggles?  Maybe that's why more Harley riders than other types wear
> non-full-face helmets?  ;-)

I have goggles. They don't work that well either since they have vents. It
makes it impossible to clear the inside when the water gets in. At least
with the full face I can run a thumb behind the shield from time to time
to clear the rain. And rain in the face might make a good indian name but
it stings at driving speeds :-)

>
> >Other than the ride to work, probably the car mainly cause it's for a
> >short ride to 7/11 or Home Depot and it's too much trouble to get
> dressed
> >up for a short ride.
>
> Also depends what I'm going for.  I can carry 3 sheets of 3/4" plywood
> on
> the roof rack of the Jeep, and/or fit a table saw (unassembled) in the
> back, but the bike's cargo capacity isn't anywhere near that good...
>

Well, I figured that was obvious ;-) Back when I was running a D&D game at
the Ft. Meade rec center, I'd cart two suitcases (one full sized and pink
(ex-wife's idea; can't miss a large pink suitcase at the airport :-) and
the other the small size) of papers and books on the luggage rack of my
CB360. I had a 18"x24" piece of cardboard that I'd have sitting on the
rear passenger peg and bungeed down.

> -- Mike B.
>

Carl

=====
02 Harley FXSTI
95 Suzuki GSXR 750W
76 Honda Chopper (in progress)




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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May  7 11:44:27 2004
Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 08:44:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Dressing for the crash
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX


--- Skip <skip@XXXXXX> wrote:
>
>
> Carl Schelin wrote:
> >
> > --- adamme1@XXXXXX wrote:
> > > Laura,
> > >
> > > What surprises me is the Harley crowd.  We spend upwards of
> > > $25k for a bike and then bitch about how much synthetic
> > > oil changes and maintenance cost.
> > >
> >
> > $14k and $420 or so for fluid changes is still fricking expensive :-)
> >
> > BTW, the Harley is in the shop for the 30k. It seems to like the shop
> for
> > each of the 10k marks.
>
> so I'm coming out of work, heading to my bike, and the fedEx guy says,
> "hey!
> when're you gonna get a real bike?"
>
> "huh?"
>
> "you know...  A harley!"
>
> "I need a bike that runs reliably.  I guess I'll just keep my 20 year
> old Honda"
>
> <hit starter button for less than a second, bike fires up>
>
> nod, smile, put on helmet.
>

It seems to run reasonably. It just seems to have regular issues. I'm
thinking I'll get close to my money's worth on the extended warrenty
though. I guess it's because I actually ride the thing. I've seen too many
bikes in the paper or on line with 1000 miles on it. At that rate, it'll
take 15 years just to get to 10,000 miles :-)  I think I'm determined to
have 50k on it before the warrenty runs out :-)

>
> :~)
>

Carl

=====
02 Harley FXSTI
95 Suzuki GSXR 750W
76 Honda Chopper (in progress)




__________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May  7 11:47:25 2004
Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 08:47:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: OT: Emoticons (was: Re: tars... local and online)
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX


--- Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX> wrote:
> At 09:24 PM 5/6/04 -0700, Carl Schelin wrote:
> >
> >It's trademarked. See http://www.despair.com for the full story. I
> think
> >they're charging 5 bucks for the use of the "frownie" in e-mail.
>
> Ok, I guess we have to make an example of them and put them out of
> business
> for such an unfriendly attempt to hijack public property for private
> use.
> Let's all not ever buy anything from these people.
>
> I don't know what the USPTO is thinking these days.  Their collective IQ
> seems to have plummeted.  They've issued patents on the XOR operation,
> despite many decades of prior art, and now they are trademarking
> collections of punctuation marks, when they have been in common use for
> many years as a form of expression.  It would be like me trademarking
> "FUCK" and trying to collect every time someone hits their thumb with a
> hammer.  It's absurd.

I did imply a smiley. I can't believe the effort involved in enforcing
that sort of trademark.

>
>
> -- Mike B.
>

Carl

=====
02 Harley FXSTI
95 Suzuki GSXR 750W
76 Honda Chopper (in progress)




__________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May  7 12:07:49 2004
From: David Cross <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Wanted: < $2000 MC
Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 12:07:41 -0400
To: dccycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

A friend of mine just completed the MSF class and has his motorcycle
license and is looking to buy a motorcycle for $2000 or less. It just
needs to be reliable transportation that needs nothing fixed to operate
safely on the streets. Any kind/year/make/model is fine, as long as its
streetable. He has the money and is very motivated to buy.

Please contact me off list.

David
dave@XXXXXX

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May  7 12:25:08 2004
Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 09:25:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" <pltrgyst@XXXXXX>
Subject: the truth about carls
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/dilbert-20040506.html

-- Larry





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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May  7 12:46:11 2004
From: "Michael Jordan" <mjordan812@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Emoticons (was: Re: tars... local and online)
Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 12:46:02 -0400


> It's trademarked. See http://www.despair.com for the full
> story. I think they're charging 5 bucks for the use of the
> "frownie" in e-mail.

Before we all get carried away on this - go back a look closely at the site.

Think satire.

Anyone taking the $5/email usage seriously probably believes that The Onion
is a primary source of unimpeachable news and truth.

Michael J.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May  7 13:51:03 2004
Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 10:51:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: the truth about carls
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX


--- "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" <pltrgyst@XXXXXX> wrote:
> http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/dilbert-20040506.html
>
> -- Larry

That's "Kruphnehdahpheweundikaniswalyniaphorganopop from Elbonia". I'm
Carl from Elbonia... I mean Colorado, well technically _from_ California
most recently from Virginia. Now I'm Carl _in_ Colorado. And BTW, being
from California or New York are apparently bad things here in Denver.

Carl in Colorado

=====
02 Harley FXSTI
95 Suzuki GSXR 750W
76 Honda Chopper (in progress)




__________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May  7 13:51:56 2004
Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 10:51:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Emoticons (was: Re: tars... local and online)
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX


--- Michael Jordan <mjordan812@XXXXXX> wrote:
>
> > It's trademarked. See http://www.despair.com for the full
> > story. I think they're charging 5 bucks for the use of the
> > "frownie" in e-mail.
>
> Before we all get carried away on this - go back a look closely at the
> site.
>
> Think satire.
>
> Anyone taking the $5/email usage seriously probably believes that The
> Onion
> is a primary source of unimpeachable news and truth.

You mean they aren't? Man, and they had such great stories ;-)

>
> Michael J.

Carl


=====
02 Harley FXSTI
95 Suzuki GSXR 750W
76 Honda Chopper (in progress)




__________________________________
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Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May  7 13:54:32 2004
Subject: Lunch at Shirlington
Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 13:58:05 -0400
From: "Julian Halton" <julian@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>


A oh so beautiful and tranquil ride out there.  Paul Wilson and Sean
Steele joined me and we had a nice time chatting about Montana, safety,
different bikes, and people in general.  Saw about 10 other bike out and
about. Thanks guys for making it out and hope everyone has a great
weekend.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May  7 14:08:34 2004
From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 14:08:23 EDT
Subject: Re: Riders/owners--mileage bragging rights
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

In a message dated 5/7/2004 7:10:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mobacc@XXXXXX
writes:

> For those who wish to make motorcycle-clan official the length of their, er,
>  uh, mileage, the AMA has "Long Rider" patches and decals.

There are a number of clubs that have mileage awards, BMWMOA (and no doubt
others) has 100,000 200,000 etc. awards and pins.
What I have been "pushing" for in these online/eledtronic formats, because it
is more "electronic" and utterly universal no matter what distance measuring
system you use is the "Light Second Award." Anyone with 186,000mi. ,
300,000km. or whatever a light second measures in your system would qualify.
Simple, universal, and challenging.


New "bumper sticker" on the ST1100.

"Eat right, stay fit,
 DIE ANYWAY!"

John Walters (Long John)
PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Up near DC

Honda ST1100X Pan European
BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles
Honda 1976 CR250M  Motowhat racer

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May  7 15:38:29 2004
Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 14:38:22 -0500
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, mike@XXXXXX,
   thomas Jordan <thomasajordan@XXXXXX>
From: Sean Jordan <eternity23@XXXXXX>
Subject: How NOT to treat a motorcycle engine!!!

http://forums.13x.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=50630

- Sean Jordan

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May  7 15:57:08 2004
Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 12:57:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" <pltrgyst@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Lunch at Shirlington
To: Julian Halton <julian@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX

--- Julian Halton <julian@XXXXXX> wrote:
>
> A oh so beautiful and tranquil ride out there.  Paul Wilson and Sean
> Steele joined me and we had a nice time chatting about Montana, safety,
> different bikes, and people in general.  Saw about 10 other bike out and
> about. Thanks guys for making it out and hope everyone has a great
> weekend.

Well, my buddy Chris and I almost made it, but at 11:55, just as we were about to
leave, the Evil Witch of the West (tm), his boss, descended on his office and
held him hostage for 45 minutes. 8;(

Chris just picked up his new red ZRX-1200R yesterday, replacing the CBR-600RR he
totalled a couple of months ago, and was all set to show it off (at 4000 rpm or
less, of course.)

Ah well, next time. Glad you guys hooked up.

-- Larry







__________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May  7 16:03:54 2004
Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 16:04:14 -0400
From: Laura Roach <laura@XXXXXX>
To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Motorcycle Internet Search Research Question

Hey all.  I'm looking for your thoughts on this because a friend and I
are debating this issue.

When you are looking for a new product for you or your bike (anything
from helmets and jackets to brake levers and oil)  how do you do an
internet search?

Do you specifically look up someone like "arai" or do you go more
general, something like "motorcycle helmets"?  And what is your thinking
behind how you search?

Any thoughts would be appreciated!
Laura

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May  7 16:07:12 2004
From: mjordan812@XXXXXX
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: How NOT to treat a motorcycle engine!!!
Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 15:06:54 -0500

YM (as they say) MV

Michael J.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sean Jordan [mailto:eternity23@XXXXXX]
> Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 14:38
> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX; mike@XXXXXX; thomas Jordan
> Subject: How NOT to treat a motorcycle engine!!!
>
> http://forums.13x.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=50630
>
> - Sean Jordan
>


From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May  7 16:07:34 2004
From: "Sean Steele" <sean@XXXXXX>
To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 16:07:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Motorcycle Internet Search Research Question

I use Froogle.com if I'm in a purhase mode: www.froogle.com. It works
really well, and it's more predictable than using other search engines
for price comparisons.

YMMV, of course.

-Sean

Laura Roach wrote:

> Hey all.  I'm looking for your thoughts on this because a friend and I
> are debating this issue.
>
> When you are looking for a new product for you or your bike (anything
> from helmets and jackets to brake levers and oil)  how do you do an
> internet search?
>
> Do you specifically look up someone like "arai" or do you go more
> general, something like "motorcycle helmets"?  And what is your thinking
> behind how you search?
>
> Any thoughts would be appreciated!
> Laura

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May  7 16:08:46 2004
Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 16:05:53 -0400
From: Skip <skip@XXXXXX>
To: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Dressing for the crash



Mike Bartman wrote:
>
> At 10:30 AM 5/7/04 -0400, Skip wrote:
>
> >"you know...  A harley!"
> >
> >"I need a bike that runs reliably.  I guess I'll just keep my 20 year old
> Honda"
> >
> ><hit starter button for less than a second, bike fires up>
>
> What makes you think Harley's aren't reliable?

just my experience with them.  I will concede that they are significantly more
reliable now than they were from their inception to the late 80's.  But that
ammount of time enables you to build a reputation.  heck, from the time I was a
kid I heard "if you don't like working on motorcycles, don't get a Harley."

>  Mine starts up like that
> every time so far.  There are guys in the local club riding 1990, or older,
> bikes that do the same thing.  Saw a segment of American Thunder last night
> where a 1907 Harley was started first try...a properly maintained bike
> should always do that.

what we didn't see was that they had just shut that bike off, so it's warmed up
and ready to go. :~)

Harley makes a capable bike for a specific market these days.  their reliability
has come leaps and bounds.  My Honda, however, hasn't seen the inside of a
dealership since it was new, and it's 20 years old.

that is reliability.


> There *is* one guy in the club with a rep for having breakdowns, but I
> think he's riding a 1966 model, and he does his own maintenance.  He's the
> same guy who's home-built chopper had issues on the Spring Tuneup Ride down
> to Orange, VA...turns out he sheared the bolts holding his rear pulley to
> the rear wheel.  There were no markings on the heads of the bolts he
> used...[1]
>
> -- Mike Bartman
>
> [1] I may not be a mechanic, but even I know that that's a location where
> Grade 8 bolts are normally used, and that such bolts always have markings
> on the heads (5 lines, isn't it?  And probably, though not always, some
> sort of maker's mark?).


hmmm.   yeah.  they make and specify graded bolts for a reason.  seems that guy
can turn a wrench, but is no mechanic either.

--skip

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May  7 16:10:34 2004
Subject: RE: Motorcycle Internet Search Research Question
Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 16:10:27 -0400
From: "Verde, Robert" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>
To: "Laura Roach" <laura@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Depends on the type of search.  For a helmet, I know I like the Shoei brand, so I tend to search first for options along this tree.

For an unrestricted search on a product, I try to narrow the search down somehow, if not by brand then by fitment, reviews, or date ranges.  Too many results otherwise.

Robert


-----Original Message-----
From: Laura Roach [mailto:laura@XXXXXX]
Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 4:04 PM
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Motorcycle Internet Search Research Question


Hey all.  I'm looking for your thoughts on this because a friend and I
are debating this issue.

When you are looking for a new product for you or your bike (anything
from helmets and jackets to brake levers and oil)  how do you do an
internet search?

Do you specifically look up someone like "arai" or do you go more
general, something like "motorcycle helmets"?  And what is your thinking
behind how you search?

Any thoughts would be appreciated!
Laura


From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May  7 16:20:19 2004
Reply-To: "Patrick Carter" <dpc2@XXXXXX>
From: "Patrick Carter" <dpc2@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>, <mike@XXXXXX>,
   "thomas Jordan" <thomasajordan@XXXXXX>,
   "Sean Jordan" <eternity23@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: How NOT to treat a motorcycle engine!!!
Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 16:19:13 -0400

I bet I could brake it.

~PC

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sean Jordan" <eternity23@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>; <mike@XXXXXX>; "thomas Jordan"
<thomasajordan@XXXXXX>
Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 3:38 PM
Subject: How NOT to treat a motorcycle engine!!!


> http://forums.13x.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=50630
>
> - Sean Jordan
>
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May  7 16:24:20 2004
Subject: RE: How NOT to treat a motorcycle engine!!!
Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 16:24:10 -0400
From: "Verde, Robert" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Some people should not be allowed near machines.


-----Original Message-----
From: mjordan812@XXXXXX [mailto:mjordan812@XXXXXX]
Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 4:07 PM
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: How NOT to treat a motorcycle engine!!!


YM (as they say) MV

Michael J.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sean Jordan [mailto:eternity23@XXXXXX]
> Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 14:38
> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX; mike@XXXXXX; thomas Jordan
> Subject: How NOT to treat a motorcycle engine!!!
>
> http://forums.13x.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=50630
>
> - Sean Jordan
>



From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May  7 16:47:04 2004
Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 16:46:48 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
From: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
Reply-To: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
To: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" <pltrgyst@XXXXXX>,
   Julian Halton <julian@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Lunch at Shirlington



-----Original Message-----
From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" <pltrgyst@XXXXXX>

--- Julian Halton <julian@XXXXXX> wrote:
>
> A oh so beautiful and tranquil ride out there.  Paul Wilson and Sean
> Steele joined me and we had a nice time chatting about Montana, safety,
> different bikes, and people in general.  Saw about 10 other bike out and
> about. Thanks guys for making it out and hope everyone has a great
> weekend.

Well, my buddy Chris and I almost made it, but at 11:55, just as we were about to
leave, the Evil Witch of the West (tm), his boss, descended on his office and
held him hostage for 45 minutes. 8;(

-----

An enjoyable lunch, Julian.  Thanks for naming the time and place.  I'd be willing to do this as a monthly thing.

Anyway, mark your calendars, folks.  Ride To Work Day is July 21st.  That means Ride To Lunch Day for the Alex.-Arl.-Crystal City bunch.



Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org
95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour]

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May  7 16:50:16 2004
Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 16:47:23 -0400
From: Skip <skip@XXXXXX>
To: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>
CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Emoticons (was: Re: tars... local and online)

Carl Schelin wrote:
>
> --- Michael Jordan <mjordan812@XXXXXX> wrote:
> >
> > > It's trademarked. See http://www.despair.com for the full
> > > story. I think they're charging 5 bucks for the use of the
> > > "frownie" in e-mail.
> >
> > Before we all get carried away on this - go back a look closely at the
> > site.
> >
> > Think satire.
> >
> > Anyone taking the $5/email usage seriously probably believes that The
> > Onion
> > is a primary source of unimpeachable news and truth.
>
> You mean they aren't? Man, and they had such great stories ;-)

my personal favorite (no longer in the archives) was "Chrysler recalls
Neck-belts"

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May  7 17:27:07 2004
Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 14:26:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: Great Ebay Buy
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

I am so happy.  Someone threw (?) a rock at my gas
tank over the winter when I was out of town.  Dented
the tank beyond repair.  For shits and giggles I
priced a new one, $700 which is crazy for a 1991 VFR
with many street scrapes.

Go I very good tank for......$42.  Was willing to pay
$250 so today felt good

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&category=35563&item=7901246958&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWA%3AIT






__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May  7 17:32:34 2004
Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 14:32:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" <pltrgyst@XXXXXX>
Subject: Ride to Work Day 2004 (was: Lunch at Shirlington)
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

--- Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX> wrote:

> Anyway, mark your calendars, folks.  Ride To Work Day is July 21st.  That means
> Ride To Lunch Day for the Alex.-Arl.-Crystal City bunch.

Let's see, this will be the 38th annual Ride to Lunch Day, won't it?

Never too early to start planning. Shirlington (brewpub?) again (nice and
central)? Old Irish Brogue in Great Falls (nice twisties through the "country")?
Mango Mike's on Duke St. near Landmark Plaza (or near CompUSA for this crowd)?
Murphy's in Falls Church (near Coleman PowerSlime)? Other ideas?

-- Larry






__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May  7 20:03:45 2004
Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 20:03:35 -0400
From: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>
To: Mike Bartman <Djin@XXXXXX>
CC: Glenn Dysart <glenn_dysart@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: RE Mileage Bragging Rights

Mike Bartman wrote:

> 2 bays, 2 floors, 2 cool.  :)
>
>
> Sounds wonderful!  Is this going to include a paint booth too?  What other
> goodies are being considered?
>
> -- Mike B.
>
> P.S. Love the term "Garage-mahal"!

Mike,

I figure it needs to be that big just so I get one bay all to myself.
Oldest daughter is making noises about starting up a garage band, and
the Wife is already talking about moving out her metric tons of Girl
Scout stuff out there already.  All I want is something to get the bikes
off the street, and give me a spot to do maintenance without getting
rained on.  Other garage goodies are probably a ways away, yet.

Horkster


--
Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)

Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX '98 Concours - BugSlayer
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth      '99 Concours - Grape Nehi
CM #001 NRA IBA COG                  '82 GS850G - Neat old bike

The Mason Dixon 20-20 Endurance Rally:  The Games People Play
Come join us in 2004:   http://www.masondixon20-20.org

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May  7 20:31:22 2004
Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 20:18:23 -0400
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Bruce Brownlee <brownlee_b@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: HDI EFI

Sorry Mike, I dont want to get into a micturation contest, but you couldnt
be more
wrong about HDI EFI.
As someone who studied in detail the first generation (Bosch type) open loop
system and specifically upgraded to an 02 because of the closed loop 'type'
system, I've read (and worked on) a fair share.

The map (by definition) is optimized for all conditions.  Most people report
exceptional performance at altitude.  Think a type of heuristic approach.
I think theres something like 5 sensors (air temp, density, throttle position,
cam position, etc) that are used to determine mixture (or injector duration,
in EFI talk).  Devices such as the powercommander allow those to be modified
by the owner (I had one on my '95) but they STILL operate using the same
concept.  Read ambient settings, adjust duration, timing, etc based on what
the map says.  There is absolutely NO "tuning to average conditions" like
occur with carbs.  The absolute conditions are matched to optimal settings
based on the programmers historical testing.

Carl,
The manual says the light should come on for 4 seconds when the key is
turned on.  I would test this without starting the engine.  Engine start is not
supposed to affect the self test.  If you have a historical code in memory, the
light will come on for 4 seconds, go off for 4 seconds, then come back on for
8 seconds.  You can see that a low voltage condition caused by a start might
put the computer back in self test, causing that 4 second light to come on a
'second time'.  A historical code means there was a fault at some time, but it
doesnt exist any more. If the light stays on, that means the fault still
exists.

A fault will be cleared after 50 'trips' (start and run for at least 30
seconds).
I have had luck resetting by disconnecting power to the PCM for a few
minutes by pulling the fuse of something....  You can retrieve the codes by
jumpering two pins on the diagnostic terminal.  I suggest you get the
electrical
diagnostics manual for you model.  If you wanted to email me, I can give you
the details and codes.

You'd be suprised what will toss a code.  Low battery will do it.  What I have
found is most common is cam position sensor and it seems to be caused
mostly by a bad start.

Anyway, no adjustment to computer maps should be required for anywhere in
the US unless a change has been made to the system (stage 1, etc).  Mass
airflow sensors, barometric pressure sensors, intake air temp, etc...  They
are all there and combine to provide peak performance (as HDI defines it)
throughout all operating conditions.....


From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May  7 22:37:34 2004
From: "lisagoddard" <lisagoddard@XXXXXX>
To: <pltrgyst@XXXXXX>, "dccycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Lunch - Ride to work day 2004
Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 22:41:50 -0400

I will set up Louisiana Express in Bethesda for anyone in that neck of the
woods.  Good grub and easy bike parking.

Lisa Goddard
'95 VFR street
'97 GSXR track



ate: Fri, 7 May 2004 14:32:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" <pltrgyst@XXXXXX>
Subject: Ride to Work Day 2004 (was: Lunch at Shirlington)
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

--- Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX> wrote:

> Anyway, mark your calendars, folks.  Ride To Work Day is July 21st.  That
means
> Ride To Lunch Day for the Alex.-Arl.-Crystal City bunch.

Let's see, this will be the 38th annual Ride to Lunch Day, won't it?

Never too early to start planning. Shirlington (brewpub?) again (nice and
central)? Old Irish Brogue in Great Falls (nice twisties through the
"country")?
Mango Mike's on Duke St. near Landmark Plaza (or near CompUSA for this
crowd)?
Murphy's in Falls Church (near Coleman PowerSlime)? Other ideas?

-- Larry





From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May  7 22:52:25 2004
From: "John White" <kokopellian@XXXXXX>
To: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>,
   "Mark Kitchell" <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Great Ebay Buy
Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 22:52:24 -0400
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
Seal-Send-Time: Fri, 7 May 2004 22:52:24 -0400

Sweet deal.  I love eBay!


----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Kitchell" <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
To: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 5:26 PM
Subject: Great Ebay Buy


> I am so happy.  Someone threw (?) a rock at my gas
> tank over the winter when I was out of town.  Dented
> the tank beyond repair.  For shits and giggles I
> priced a new one, $700 which is crazy for a 1991 VFR
> with many street scrapes.
>
> Go I very good tank for......$42.  Was willing to pay
> $250 so today felt good
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&category=35563&item=7901246958&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWA%3AIT
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
> http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
>
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat May  8 00:34:22 2004
Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 21:34:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: HDI EFI
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX


--- Bruce Brownlee <brownlee_b@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Sorry Mike, I dont want to get into a micturation contest, but you
> couldnt be more wrong about HDI EFI. As someone who studied in detail
> the first generation (Bosch type) open loop system and specifically
> upgraded to an 02 because of the closed loop 'type' system, I've read
> (and worked on) a fair share.
>
> The map (by definition) is optimized for all conditions.  Most people
> report exceptional performance at altitude.  Think a type of heuristic
> approach. I think theres something like 5 sensors (air temp, density,
> throttle position, cam position, etc) that are used to determine
> mixture (or injector duration, in EFI talk).  Devices such as the
> powercommander allow those to be modified by the owner (I had one on my
> '95) but they STILL operate using the same concept.  Read ambient
> settings, adjust duration, timing, etc based on what the map says.
> There is absolutely NO "tuning to average conditions" like occur with
> carbs.  The absolute conditions are matched to optimal settings based
> on the programmers historical testing.
>
> Carl,
> The manual says the light should come on for 4 seconds when the key is
> turned on.  I would test this without starting the engine.  Engine start
> is not supposed to affect the self test.  If you have a historical code
> in memory, the light will come on for 4 seconds, go off for 4 seconds,
> then come back on for 8 seconds.  You can see that a low voltage
> condition caused by a start might put the computer back in self test,
> causing that 4 second light to come on a 'second time'.  A historical
> code means there was a fault at some time, but it doesnt exist any more.
> If the light stays on, that means the fault still exists.

Unfortunately I'm in no position to check this right now. It does sound
like what you're saying though. While I always wait for the lights to go
out, I do recall seeing the engine light still on while I was getting
suited up. Possibly in the manner you're stating. When it was colder, I
did notice that it was taking two tries to get the bike started and once
in a while there was a back fire. I was assuming it was weather related
since on warmer days it'd start right up.

>
> A fault will be cleared after 50 'trips' (start and run for at least 30
> seconds). I have had luck resetting by disconnecting power to the PCM
> for a few minutes by pulling the fuse of something....  You can
> retrieve the codes by jumpering two pins on the diagnostic terminal.  I
> suggest you get the electrical diagnostics manual for you model.  If
> you wanted to email me, I can give you the details and codes.

Nah, I appreciate it but like I said. It's already in the shop. That's the
second time something's come up that having the book would have been nice.
I'll be ordering that when I pick her up.

>
> You'd be suprised what will toss a code.  Low battery will do it.  What
> I have found is most common is cam position sensor and it seems to be
> caused mostly by a bad start.

Actually with only two lights to indicate something needs to be checked,
I'm surprised it's not on more often. With the book, I can at least be a
little informed before dragging her to the shop again.

>
> Anyway, no adjustment to computer maps should be required for anywhere
> in the US unless a change has been made to the system (stage 1, etc).
> Mass airflow sensors, barometric pressure sensors, intake air temp,
> etc...  They are all there and combine to provide peak performance
> (as HDI defines it) throughout all operating conditions.....

The service guy sort of agreed with me. Now I think he was just
figuratively patting my head :-)  Let's see if they try and double talk me
as well.

Thanks again for the lesson.

Carl
>
>


=====
02 Harley FXSTI
95 Suzuki GSXR 750W
76 Honda Chopper (in progress)




__________________________________
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Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat May  8 16:59:34 2004
Date: Sat, 08 May 2004 16:56:44 -0400
To: Skip <skip@XXXXXX>
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Dressing for the crash
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

At 04:05 PM 5/7/04 -0400, Skip wrote:
>
>
>Mike Bartman wrote:
>>
>> At 10:30 AM 5/7/04 -0400, Skip wrote:
>>
>> >"you know...  A harley!"
>> >
>> >"I need a bike that runs reliably.  I guess I'll just keep my 20 year old
>> Honda"
>> >
>> ><hit starter button for less than a second, bike fires up>
>>
>> What makes you think Harley's aren't reliable?
>
>just my experience with them.  I will concede that they are significantly
more
>reliable now than they were from their inception to the late 80's.  But that
>ammount of time enables you to build a reputation.  heck, from the time I
was a
>kid I heard "if you don't like working on motorcycles, don't get a Harley."

Ok, fair enough.  For what it's worth, most vehicles prior to the 80s
required a lot of maintenance.  It was the Japanese cars in the 70s that
scared everyone into trying to increase maintenance intervals.  In the 60's
it was just assumed that you'd replace your car every 3-5 years (though a
few folks always bucked the trend).  A 10 year old car was *OLD*.  Ford
even came up with the idea of "planned obsolescence", where the vehicle was
designed to die in 5 years...part of where they got the "Found On Road
Dead" name (if you design it to die in 5, some of them will die in 2 or 3).
 My '68 VW required a valve adjustment every 3000 miles (they did make it
pretty easy though...you could remove the valve covers without tools, or
with a small prybar if your fingers weren't strong enough).  Cars were also
simple enough that most folks where we lived did their own maintenance for
things like brakes, tuneups, carb rebuilds, cooling system flush, etc., and
only went to the pros for major problems.  I still remember replacing ball
joints in a '63 Mercury Montclaire in our one-car garage...without the
proper tools.  Nightmare time.

On the other hand, when my VW threw its distributor on I-64 between
Richmond and Williamsburg (bolt on the clamp broke, and the cam popped it
up about an inch), I was able to repair it by the side of the road using a
bolt stolen from a less critical area, and setting the timing with a couple
of bits of wire, a friend to act as a lamp holder and a borrowed brake
light.  Primitive designs have their benefits. :-)

>> [1] I may not be a mechanic, but even I know that that's a location where
>> Grade 8 bolts are normally used, and that such bolts always have markings
>> on the heads (5 lines, isn't it?  And probably, though not always, some
>> sort of maker's mark?).
>
>hmmm.   yeah.  they make and specify graded bolts for a reason.  seems
that guy
>can turn a wrench, but is no mechanic either.

Hopefully he'll learn.  At least he's not afraid to try.  I know too much
to be that confident!  :-)

-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat May  8 19:17:36 2004
From: Stephen Miller <freecat@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Dressing for the crash
Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 19:17:59 -0400
To: DC-Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>


On May 8, 2004, at 4:56 PM, Mike Bartman wrote:

> Ok, fair enough.  For what it's worth, most vehicles prior to the 80s
> required a lot of maintenance.  It was the Japanese cars in the 70s
> that
> scared everyone into trying to increase maintenance intervals.  In the
> 60's
> it was just assumed that you'd replace your car every 3-5 years
> (though a
> few folks always bucked the trend).  A 10 year old car was *OLD*.  Ford
> even came up with the idea of "planned obsolescence", where the
> vehicle was
> designed to die in 5 years...part of where they got the "Found On Road
> Dead" name (if you design it to die in 5, some of them will die in 2
> or 3).

So I shouldn't whine too much if my '75 Honda 550 (30K on the clock)
needs a rebuild over the winter?

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat May  8 21:04:18 2004
From: "W.S." <mobacc@XXXXXX>
To: "DC-Cycles" <DC-Cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Ready to scratch that biker bar itch?
Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 21:03:55 -0400

News from the 'hood.  Last Thursday's W. Post District Weekly spoke of the
upcoming May 18 Chap. 11 auction of "1819 Club" (used to be Joanna's: On M
St. NW).  Many know of the club, its attractive location, proximity to other
watering holes, Metro, etc.  Oh.  It also comes with an
alcohol/no-clothes-on-the-dancers (censor-sensitive here) license, one of
said-to-be-frozen 20-odd in the city.  License+Bldg est. at $2.5+m, there
are other pertinent numbers.

Bike parking only a block away.  The front awning is bright and current.
AFAIK, no leathers or colors restrictions.

Bill S. / DC
'99 VN750 > Bring me a bidder form.  Enough room there for a wall-riding
cage!
Join the AMA.  Help protect my riding fun.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 10 10:19:44 2004
Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 10:19:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Daniel H. Brown" <brown@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Guess what...


They're here...

http://brauhaus.org/~brown/images/cicada.jpg


(taken this morning in my back yard)


--
Dan Brown
brown@XXXXXX

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 10 10:29:34 2004
Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 10:29:28 -0400
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Guess what...

My sister in Annandale said she has only seen a few, but her front yard
looks like it was aerated.  They are now coming up between her flagstones
in the enclosed porch, and her dogs are gorging on them.  Digging trenches
in the yard to get at the late risers.

The vet told us to watch out - the dogs will overeat on them, then get sick
and dehydrate.

At 10:19 AM 5/10/2004, Daniel H. Brown wrote:
>They're here...
>
>http://brauhaus.org/~brown/images/cicada.jpg
>
>
>(taken this morning in my back yard)


___________________________________________
     Mike Troutman
         http://www.troutman.org/vfr
         1997 Honda VFR 750
            AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/
            NMA http://www.motorists.org

One who knows the enemy and knows himself
will not be in danger in a hundred battles.
One who does not know the enemy but knows himself
will sometimes win, sometimes lose.
One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself
will be in danger in every battle.
  - Sun Tzu

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 10 10:45:42 2004
Subject: First Ride.... and weekend report.
Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 10:49:14 -0400
From: "Julian Halton" <julian@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>


Well as is the tradition of passing wisdom on, the biker bug to ride
that bit me in large part to a certain realtor...was officially passed
on this weekend.  After seeing my smiling face for six months, a great
friend and co-worker took the MSF course in Richmond this weekend. I had
already had him parking lot my bike once or twice and sit on every one
imaginable.

As par for the course and being long-legged he has already made up his
mind.  Used SV 650 (preferably blue) plus he needs all the equipment..I
am going to size him and start helping him shop for everything he needs.
If anyone knows of a SV650 that needs a good home, please let me know.

I had a wonderful weekend of riding ( harpers ferry via g-town pike, 7
and then the 9) twice and the old speedy stand by of Annapolis.
I took my ex with me to harpers and it was great as she was my first
passenger and was the nightmare I complained about...well after giving
her my new spiel about zen and the art of feeling in sync..it was a
great ride although she complained of soreness.
Hung out with the semi-clown that sold me my R6 and listened to him (a
former mechanic) tell me that he had no idea it had been down before he
sold it to me for 6k.   According to him, he bought his new ride..an 03
CBR 954 for 6800 shipped from Nebraska brand new.

On my way up to Annapolis, I was joined my a fellow yamaha rider and
passenger and we rode in together.  At the water, after parking, he gave
me a compliment I shall cherish. He said : "I like your style...not too
fast and shaky but in control and.......smooth."

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 10 10:56:16 2004
From: "Rob Keiser" <robkeiser@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: FW: Bike for sale
Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 10:44:06 -0400

Forwarding from a Moto-Crew friend.

Rob


If you all know someone looking for a sweet little cruiser, please
spread the word.  Here are the specs:

2002 Yamaha V-Star 650 Custom (bought Oct. of '01). Eggplant purple
with silver higlights. Dealer maintained (all records available) and
in excellent condition. Road hazard coverage on both tires. 13K
miles. Asking $4000. Seller will toss in travel bags and XL men's
cordura jacket with liner. Call 301.277.2252, leave message.


From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 10 11:53:37 2004
From: <adamme1@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: CAD Cycles - Swapping tires off bike
Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 11:53:30 -0400

Just to let everyone know.  I called CAD Cycles about swapping out my tires Friday.  They told me that they have no problem changing tires on Harley rims.  I *did* call Herndon Cyclesport and was told "We don't normally do Harley rims and we *really* don't want to even discuss it."

oookkkk..

Anyway, long story short, CAD did it in about an hour on
Saturday morning.  $17.50 per rim ($15 for r/r and spin balance, $2.50 old tire disposal).  They also charged me $5 to take the belt sprocket off so if you plan on going over there and getting your Harley tires r/r'd.  Save $5 and remove the sprocket before giving it to them.

Rockville HD wanted $32.50 a rim and they couldn't guarantee it being done by Saturday.

Patriot HD would do it for $26 a rim but also said it may not be done for a couple of days.

CAD...I like them already!  Well worth the trip.

-aki


From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 10 11:57:16 2004
Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 08:57:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: DUI killer skates on most serious charge
To: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>, Dave Yates <Dave@XXXXXX>,
   dc-cycles@XXXXXX

i'm too busy to deal with this thread piecemeal.  however,
i do find it surprising that a self-proclaimed
constitutional scholar would favor the abbrogation of
rights specifically identified in that document simply to
fix clerical errors.

oh, mike, remember that speeding ticket you got 12 years
ago, you were also negligent at that time in failing
observe a traffic device, so you owe the state another
$100.  sorry we forgot to charge you then, but i'm sure you
understand.

as for "precedent," what weight should be given in maryland
to a decision from a california lower court (or any ca.
court, for that matter)?




--- Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX> wrote:
> At 09:34 AM 5/5/04 -0700, Tom Gimer wrote:
> >--- Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX> wrote:
>
> >> Double Jeopardy has to do with being tried twice for
> the
> >> *same offense*.
> >
> >and, paying a fine often constitutes "being tried."
>
> Yes, for the offense one is paying the fine for.  Not for
> other offenses
> one may or may not have committed.
>
> >> Driving drunk, negligent driving, and manslaughter are
> >> not the same
> >> offense...though they are often committed
> simultaneously.
> >
> >being convicted of a lesser included offense often bars
> a
> >subsequent proceeding based upon the offense which, for
> >whatever reason, was not charged or pursued.
>
> I don't know what often happens.  I'm talking about what
> should be
> happening.  Often the officer at the scene will fail to
> cite for a given
> offense.  Does that mean that all such offenses should be
> excused?  Of
> course not.
>
> Does pleading guilty to burglary excuse me from a charge
> of murder of a
> resident of the dwelling committed as part of that
> burglary?  If not, why
> should pleading guilty to negligent driving excuse
> manslaughter?
>
> If you say it's because the charges were already brought
> for the lesser
> offense, and pled to, what if the murder wasn't
> discovered until a week
> after I'd been arrested for the burglary?  Any change in
> the situation?
>
> If not, I think we have a loophole that will allow murder
> to be committed.
> Just commit it in conjunction with some lesser crime,
> make sure the murder
> isn't discovered until after you've been arrested,
> charged and pled guilty
> to the lesser charge, and you are home free.  "Double
> Jeopardy" will
> prevent them from charging you with the murder later
> on...that's what
> happened in this case anyway (with different crimes,
> obviously).  The guy
> wasn't dead at the scene...he died several days later,
> after the charges
> for negligent driving had been brought, and the fine
> paid...and you (and
> the state authorities) say that this means they can't
> charge her with her
> other crimes...this is *wrong*.
>
> >> In the Rodney King case the officers were charged with
> >> things like
> >> excessive use of force, and found innocent.  Then they
> >> were charged with
> >> violation of civil rights for the same actions...and
> >> convicted.  If that
> >> wasn't double jeopardy, then charging this woman with
> >> manslaughter now
> >> wouldn't be either.
> >
> >is this the rodney king case we're discussing?  no?
> then
> >the above is a perfect model example of
> non-responsiveness.
>
> Ever hear of "precedent"?  The non-statuatory part of the
> law?  The law
> seems relevant here...too bad those in charge of it
> aren't doing their jobs
> very well.
>
>
> -- Mike B.
>
> '04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for
> the non-Harley folks)
>
> Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from
> someone else's mistakes
> is better.
>





__________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 10 12:03:11 2004
Subject: RE: CAD Cycles - Swapping tires off bike
Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 12:03:05 -0400
From: "Sean Brady" <sbrady@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

A word about "Herndon Cyclesport " -- they were the place I bought my
first Seca 750 (back in 1986, when they still were in Tysons Corner).
They have since been bought and sold so many times its hard to track
what bikes they service anymore.

When I bought my Triumph Adventurer from them (2000), they had a variety
of bikes they dealt with.  Within 2 years they had dropped Triumph, and
most others, and have resorted to Yamaha/Suzuki.  They presently call
themselves "Champion Motorsports", and sell bikes (Yamaha and Suzuki I
think) and ATVs.  I did have them do some basic stuff on my adventurer,
but have resorted to other people when problems arise.

Just thought I'd share.

Sean

-----Original Message-----
From: adamme1@XXXXXX [mailto:adamme1@XXXXXX]
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 11:54 AM
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: CAD Cycles - Swapping tires off bike

Just to let everyone know.  I called CAD Cycles about swapping out my
tires Friday.  They told me that they have no problem changing tires on
Harley rims.  I *did* call Herndon Cyclesport and was told "We don't
normally do Harley rims and we *really* don't want to even discuss it."

oookkkk..

Anyway, long story short, CAD did it in about an hour on
Saturday morning.  $17.50 per rim ($15 for r/r and spin balance, $2.50
old tire disposal).  They also charged me $5 to take the belt sprocket
off so if you plan on going over there and getting your Harley tires
r/r'd.  Save $5 and remove the sprocket before giving it to them.

Rockville HD wanted $32.50 a rim and they couldn't guarantee it being
done by Saturday.

Patriot HD would do it for $26 a rim but also said it may not be done
for a couple of days.

CAD...I like them already!  Well worth the trip.

-aki





From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 10 13:08:34 2004
From: "Shigeru Honda" <shonda3@XXXXXX>
To: "dc-cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: typo or fraud?
Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 13:06:09 -0400

are these typo or fraud?
too cheap to be true...

2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800
http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mcy/30681624.html

2003 kawasaki Ninja ZX-9R - $2200
http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mcy/30681560.html


---------------------
Shigeru Honda
98 SuperHawk (Street)
99 750 SS (Track #881)
02 MZ Skorpion Tour (Commuter)
91 CR80 (new toy)

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 10 13:37:09 2004
From: "John White" <kokopellian@XXXXXX>
To: shonda3@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: typo or fraud?
Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 13:37:01 -0400

I'll take FRAUD for $500 Alex.....


>From: "Shigeru Honda" <shonda3@XXXXXX>
>To: "dc-cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
>Subject: typo or fraud?
>Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 13:06:09 -0400
>
>are these typo or fraud?
>too cheap to be true...
>
>2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800
>http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mcy/30681624.html
>
>2003 kawasaki Ninja ZX-9R - $2200
>http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mcy/30681560.html
>
>
>---------------------
>Shigeru Honda
>98 SuperHawk (Street)
>99 750 SS (Track #881)
>02 MZ Skorpion Tour (Commuter)
>91 CR80 (new toy)
>


From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 10 13:53:42 2004
Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 10:53:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: DUI killer skates on most serious charge
To: Rob Sharp <rob@XXXXXX>, John White <kokopellian@XXXXXX>,
   DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

--- Rob Sharp <rob@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Wrongful death suit huh.
>
> I quote:
> > >     Miss Williams had just left work at a Burger King
> on
>
> You probably will spend more in legal fees the you will
> ever get back.

fyi, most wrongful death cases are handled on a contingency
basis.





> On Wed, 5 May 2004 09:12:42 -0400, John White wrote
> > That's f**ked up!  Wow!  She has to pay some how.  The
> family should
> > file a wrongful death suit against her.  Tap into her
> assets and
> > insurance or something.  I know that won't bring him
> back, but to
> > let her just walk away like that....





__________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 10 13:59:10 2004
From: <adamme1@XXXXXX>
To: "Shigeru Honda" <shonda3@XXXXXX>,
   "dc-cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: typo or fraud?
Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 13:59:03 -0400

..if it's too good to be true...

(hint:  It is)


>
> From: "Shigeru Honda" <shonda3@XXXXXX>
> Date: 2004/05/10 Mon PM 01:06:09 EDT
> To: "dc-cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
> Subject: typo or fraud?
>
> are these typo or fraud?
> too cheap to be true...
>
> 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800
> http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mcy/30681624.html
>
> 2003 kawasaki Ninja ZX-9R - $2200
> http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mcy/30681560.html
>
>
> ---------------------
> Shigeru Honda
> 98 SuperHawk (Street)
> 99 750 SS (Track #881)
> 02 MZ Skorpion Tour (Commuter)
> 91 CR80 (new toy)
>
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 10 14:01:19 2004
From: "Jim McGonigle" <jmcgonigle@XXXXXX>
To: <adamme1@XXXXXX>, "'Shigeru Honda'" <shonda3@XXXXXX>,
   "'dc-cycles'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: typo or fraud?
Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 14:01:05 -0400


From the same person no less... Somethings wrong.

-----Original Message-----
From: adamme1@XXXXXX [mailto:adamme1@XXXXXX]
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 1:59 PM
To: Shigeru Honda; dc-cycles
Subject: Re: typo or fraud?

..if it's too good to be true...

(hint:  It is)


>
> From: "Shigeru Honda" <shonda3@XXXXXX>
> Date: 2004/05/10 Mon PM 01:06:09 EDT
> To: "dc-cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
> Subject: typo or fraud?
>
> are these typo or fraud?
> too cheap to be true...
>
> 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800
> http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mcy/30681624.html
>
> 2003 kawasaki Ninja ZX-9R - $2200
> http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mcy/30681560.html
>
>
> ---------------------
> Shigeru Honda
> 98 SuperHawk (Street)
> 99 750 SS (Track #881)
> 02 MZ Skorpion Tour (Commuter)
> 91 CR80 (new toy)
>
>


From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 10 16:22:15 2004
From: "Perry Coleman" <perrycoleman@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: CAD Cycles - Swapping tires off bike
Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 16:21:07 -0400

Dang, Aki! I live like 10 minutes from CAD. I wish I would have known you
were coming...

Perry

>From: <adamme1@XXXXXX>
>To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
>Subject: CAD Cycles - Swapping tires off bike
>Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 11:53:30 -0400
>
>Just to let everyone know.  I called CAD Cycles about swapping out my tires
>Friday.  They told me that they have no problem changing tires on Harley
>rims.  I *did* call Herndon Cyclesport and was told "We don't normally do
>Harley rims and we *really* don't want to even discuss it."
>
>oookkkk..
>
>Anyway, long story short, CAD did it in about an hour on
>Saturday morning.  $17.50 per rim ($15 for r/r and spin balance, $2.50 old
>tire disposal).  They also charged me $5 to take the belt sprocket off so
>if you plan on going over there and getting your Harley tires r/r'd.  Save
>$5 and remove the sprocket before giving it to them.
>
>Rockville HD wanted $32.50 a rim and they couldn't guarantee it being done
>by Saturday.
>
>Patriot HD would do it for $26 a rim but also said it may not be done for a
>couple of days.
>
>CAD...I like them already!  Well worth the trip.
>
>-aki
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee)B®
Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 10 16:56:37 2004
From: "Custer, Carl" <Carl.Custer@XXXXXX>
To: "'DCCycles'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: COTU - SE Ohio
Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 16:58:28 -0400

555 isn't as nice as the Dragon, but it's closer.  This spring's healthy
helping of cinders left over from the winter certainly made it "puckier",
especially in Friday night's (May 7) rain.
A Maggot arranged "t- shirts"
http://cafeshops.com/jeffconlin

Surf Ohio indeed.

Carl in Bethesda
Cross winds on Rt 60 & I-68 were fun too.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 10 20:29:12 2004
Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 17:29:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>
Subject: Harley Update
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

Just for closure (sort of).

I got the bike back from Sun HD this afternoon. The two problems
apparently were non-issues. The cap on top of the left fork was a little
loose, possibly from the impact on that bit of roadwork at Springfield
(especially since the Suzuki has a similar problem). It was certainly hand
tight since I checked that, but the mechanic checked the fork out and
found no damage. He had to torque it to spec and that seemed to clear up
the leak.

The engine light was related to an overfull oil tank. It seems I filled it
while on the jiffy stand rather than standing it up and I put about a
half-quart too much. The book was packed away and a recent magazine
article said to check it on the stand. I just checked the service manual
and while the picture seems to show it on the stand, it says to check it
while it's upright.

The nice part is that they bled the rear brake and actually washed the
bike. I was going to replace the brake fluids in the front and rear any
way but it's nice that they took care of it.

While I was waiting on the Hawg to get out of the shop, I wandered over to
the Sun Honda dealer and they have a 2002 Hayabusa with 11k and priced at
$8.2k. No apparent scratches or dings on it. The sales guy didn't know why
it was traded in. Hmmmm.   They also had a Blackbird with similar miles
and a Kawasaki (not sure which; what's the equivalent in power?). It seems
like a reasonable price, perhaps a tad high. I checked various web sites
and excluding the fraudulant e-bay ads (did you see the 'busa with the 14"
swingarm stretch???), it seems about right.

Carl

=====
02 Harley FXSTI
95 Suzuki GSXR 750W
76 Honda Chopper (in progress)




__________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 10 20:31:19 2004
Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 17:30:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: Scott Moyer <smoyer72@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re:  COTU - SE Ohio
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

Why's Jeff a maggot?  Just for making up some t-shirts?

moyer


-------------

From: "Custer, Carl" <Carl.Custer@XXXXXX>
To: "'DCCycles'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: COTU - SE Ohio
Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 16:58:28 -0400

555 isn't as nice as the Dragon, but it's closer.  This spring's healthy
helping of cinders left over from the winter certainly made it "puckier",
especially in Friday night's (May 7) rain.
A Maggot arranged "t- shirts"
http://cafeshops.com/jeffconlin

Surf Ohio indeed.

Carl in Bethesda
Cross winds on Rt 60 & I-68 were fun too.





__________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 10 21:36:51 2004
From: "Bruce N" <bcn@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: COTU - SE Ohio
Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 21:34:36 -0400

Members of the Sab/Mag list are known as maggots. Nice.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Moyer" <smoyer72@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 8:30 PM
Subject: Re: COTU - SE Ohio


> Why's Jeff a maggot?  Just for making up some t-shirts?
>
> moyer
>
>
> -------------
>
> From: "Custer, Carl" <Carl.Custer@XXXXXX>
> To: "'DCCycles'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
> Subject: COTU - SE Ohio
> Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 16:58:28 -0400
>
> 555 isn't as nice as the Dragon, but it's closer.  This spring's healthy
> helping of cinders left over from the winter certainly made it "puckier",
> especially in Friday night's (May 7) rain.
> A Maggot arranged "t- shirts"
> http://cafeshops.com/jeffconlin
>
> Surf Ohio indeed.
>
> Carl in Bethesda
> Cross winds on Rt 60 & I-68 were fun too.
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
> http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
>
>
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 07:55:01 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 04:54:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R  - $1800
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

here is the answer i got.  What a SCAM!!!!


--- mark hermes <mark_hermes2001@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 04:43:06 -0700 (PDT)
> From: mark hermes <mark_hermes2001@XXXXXX>
> Subject: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R  - $1800
> To: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
>
> Yes the price is 1800$.
> I am from London and I sell this bike because is
> registered in US
> I can send you the bike via DHL and if you are
> interested I will pay all shipping taxes.
> Tell me if you are realy interested to start  the
> deal with me,
>
>
> Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Hi, is price correct? It seems very low.
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
> http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs





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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 08:42:20 2004
From: "Gary Foreman" <lists@XXXXXX>
To: "'DC Cycles'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R  - $1800
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 08:45:14 -0400

Yeah, I got the same answer.  It's a SCAM for sure.

Gary

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Kitchell [mailto:markkitchell@XXXXXX]
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 7:55 AM
To: DC Cycles
Subject: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800

here is the answer i got.  What a SCAM!!!!


--- mark hermes <mark_hermes2001@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 04:43:06 -0700 (PDT)
> From: mark hermes <mark_hermes2001@XXXXXX>
> Subject: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R  - $1800
> To: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
>
> Yes the price is 1800$.
> I am from London and I sell this bike because is registered in US I
> can send you the bike via DHL and if you are interested I will pay all
> shipping taxes.
> Tell me if you are realy interested to start  the deal with me,
>
>
> Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Hi, is price correct? It seems very low.
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
> http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs





__________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 09:01:18 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 09:00:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: dan <dan@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: camping

Thanks for all the recommendations, on-list and offline.  We ended up
staying in Big Meadows on Skyline.  Very nice campground, clean bathrooms
and friendly staff.  Good thing we caged it, it POURED for 2 hours
straight on Skyline.  I have never seen rain like that before and I've
been in two hurricanes with 100 plus winds.  I couldn't see anything
except for a yellow line on the road 3 feet in front of the bumper.

--

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 09:02:23 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 06:02:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brian Ray <bdaleray@XXXXXX>
Subject: Route to Louisville, KY
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

I'm headed to Louisville in a bit over a week, and
considering riding.  I'll be leaving from Alexandria
on Friday morning, returning the following Sunday.
Mapquest puts it at a bit over 600 miles, slabbing it.
 270 to 70 to 68 to 79/77 to 64.

Are there better routes?  The twin goals of making
time & nice roadways are both important.

I'll be taking the Bandit (GSF 1200S), and I should
have a gel seat by then.  I might be a bit sore by the
end of 10 hours, but it seems doable.

Thanks,

Brian




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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 10:50:24 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 07:50:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Glenn Dysart <glenn_dysart@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Route to Louisville, KY
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

Some many options...  Looking at the map Louisville is
almost due west of Huntington, WV.  If it were me, I'd
head south and play around the roads near I-64 and
work my way over.  There are so many good roads going
through WV in that area you might have a hard time
finding a bad one.

I might do something along these lines:

Work my way to Lexington, VA and pick up VA 39 west
which turns into WV 39 (an awesome road BTW) and will
get you most of the way to Charleston, WV.  From there
I don't know the roads all that well but looking at
the map (and knowing the terrain) it looks like you
should be able to find some other decent roads or if
you are crunching on time you can jump on I-64 and
slab it over to Louisville.

Please let us know what routes you end up using and
how decent they are.

Glenn




--- Brian Ray <bdaleray@XXXXXX> wrote:
> I'm headed to Louisville in a bit over a week, and
> considering riding.  I'll be leaving from Alexandria
> on Friday morning, returning the following Sunday.
> Mapquest puts it at a bit over 600 miles, slabbing
> it.
>  270 to 70 to 68 to 79/77 to 64.
>
> Are there better routes?  The twin goals of making
> time & nice roadways are both important.
>
> I'll be taking the Bandit (GSF 1200S), and I should
> have a gel seat by then.  I might be a bit sore by
> the
> end of 10 hours, but it seems doable.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Brian
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
> http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
>





__________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 11:02:56 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:02:43 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
From: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
Reply-To: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
To: Glenn Dysart <glenn_dysart@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Route to Louisville, KY



-----Original Message-----
From: Glenn Dysart <glenn_dysart@XXXXXX>

Some many options...  Looking at the map Louisville is
almost due west of Huntington, WV.  If it were me, I'd
head south and play around the roads near I-64 and
work my way over.  There are so many good roads going
through WV in that area you might have a hard time
finding a bad one.

----------------

Make sure your ride US 60 past Hawk's Nest State Park in WV.  Thank me when you get home.  Following up on Glenn's suggestion, take VA/WV 39 all the way to Summersville**, then cut down US19 a bit, to US 60.  60 goes to Charleston, where you can pick up the slab again.

**Watch out for the po-po in Summersville.  It's a major speed trap.


Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org
95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour]

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 11:08:46 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 08:08:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Glenn Dysart <glenn_dysart@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: camping
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

Dan, was this on Friday?  We rode through Flint Hill
Saturday ~ 9:00 AM and it looked like a tornado had
been through there.  Many, many trees down, and mud
and gravel completely_covering_the_roads in some
areas.

Glenn

--- dan <dan@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Thanks for all the recommendations, on-list and
> offline.  We ended up
> staying in Big Meadows on Skyline.  Very nice
> campground, clean bathrooms
> and friendly staff.  Good thing we caged it, it
> POURED for 2 hours
> straight on Skyline.  I have never seen rain like
> that before and I've
> been in two hurricanes with 100 plus winds.  I
> couldn't see anything
> except for a yellow line on the road 3 feet in front
> of the bumper.
>
> --
>





__________________________________
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Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 11:37:56 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:34:33 -0400
From: Skip <skip@XXXXXX>
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Ride to Work Day 2004 (was: Lunch at Shirlington)

I vote for the brogue.  I grew up in that area.

"pltrgyst@XXXXXX" wrote:
>
> --- Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX> wrote:
>
> > Anyway, mark your calendars, folks.  Ride To Work Day is July 21st.  That means
> > Ride To Lunch Day for the Alex.-Arl.-Crystal City bunch.
>
> Let's see, this will be the 38th annual Ride to Lunch Day, won't it?
>
> Never too early to start planning. Shirlington (brewpub?) again (nice and
> central)? Old Irish Brogue in Great Falls (nice twisties through the "country")?
> Mango Mike's on Duke St. near Landmark Plaza (or near CompUSA for this crowd)?
> Murphy's in Falls Church (near Coleman PowerSlime)? Other ideas?
>
> -- Larry
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
> http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 11:40:03 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:36:57 -0400
From: Skip <skip@XXXXXX>
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Guess what...

I've yet to see my first one.

--skip

"Daniel H. Brown" wrote:
>
> They're here...
>
> http://brauhaus.org/~brown/images/cicada.jpg
>
> (taken this morning in my back yard)
>
> --
> Dan Brown
> brown@XXXXXX

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 11:40:26 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:40:00 -0400
To: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Harley Update

At 05:29 PM 5/10/04 -0700, Carl Schelin wrote:
>Just for closure (sort of).

Glad your fork problem was so simple to fix.

>The engine light was related to an overfull oil tank. It seems I filled it
>while on the jiffy stand rather than standing it up and I put about a
>half-quart too much. The book was packed away and a recent magazine

Owner's manual on mine says vertical.  When on the jiffy stand the filler
neck is higher than normal, so the dip stick will read lower.  If you fill
to the "full" mark, you'll have way too much.

On the other hand, if you fill it properly, put it on the jiffy stand, and
check the level, so you know where "full" reads when it's tilted, you
should be able to check it on the jiffy stand all the time.  I'm guessing
the "check it vertical" thing is to make it easier on the mechanics, who
are going to be checking it after service, and it will be vertical on their
lift.  I don't know why they don't mark the dip stick with "on jiffy" and
"off jiffy" level marks, but a small jeweler's file should fix it (unless
some more knowledgeable types here point out where I'm missing something
critical ;-).

>The nice part is that they bled the rear brake and actually washed the
>bike.

Batley's always washes the bike after service...unless you want it in a
hurry or something, like the guy picking his up the other night with an
approaching thunderstorm.

Had a similar problem Sunday night.  I swapped the slip-ons for ones with
better flow (and sound...deeper note, but not much louder).  Took me almost
4 hours, including polishing the fingerprints off of the chrome.  Two
factors made it take more than about 45 minutes: 1) getting the old ones
off, 2) trying to make things easier while putting the new ones on.

1) The clamps crimp the slip-ons to the header pipes, and they really don't
want to come off, even after you remove the clamps.  You can't horse them
around too much, or you'll wreck the seals where the headers go into the
exhaust ports, so it's a matter of penetrating oil, hold the header as
steady as you can, and wiggle the muffler slowly off the header.  Takes a
lot of patience.  If I ever do it again, I'm going to get the seal kit for
the headers, and just remove everything, then separate the headers and the
mufflers once it's all off the bike.  That way I can wiggle all I like and
get them off a lot quicker.  Once I had the old ones off, the new ones went
on easily...except for issue #2.

2) The rear muffler's clamp is located directly below the passenger
footboard support.  The nut is under the support, with a gap of about 1/2".
 Getting it off was a job for a box wrench, but since it's torqued to 45-60
ft/lbs, there just isn't enough leverage, or space to get a good grip on
the wrench in the first place.  An open-end wrench and a mallet worked to
hammer it over to loosen the clamp, but the same trick wouldn't work for
putting it back on.  "I'll just remove the foot board and flip the clamp
over, so I can get a socket (and torque wrench) on it!" I thought.  Worked
great too.  Got it all on, torqued and looking good...even had clearance
for the footboard to go back on...little arch there looked like it was made
for clearing the clamp nut.  Then I went to put the heat shields back
on...oops.  With the clamp on the other side, there was a big clamp nut in
the way of replacing the heat shield.  Clamp only has two possible
positions...the one you can torque, and the one you can't, and the heat
shield only fits the one you can't.  Damn.  Removing the saddle bag, foot
board support, and bag bar attachment would have let me get a torque wrench
on the clamp nut, but at that point I wasn't interested in that much work
(I put the bag bars on...it was a PITA too), so I just used the box wrench,
pulled as hard as I could, and checked it for leaks.  Looks ok, but we'll
see.  Learning experience.

Anyway, after all that (and the other jobs I got done on Sunday for the
house and yard) I decided I deserved some ice cream from a friend's new
shop (Coldstone Creamery, in Olney)...and the bike needed a test ride
anyway.  They'd been predicting thunderstorms at 50% chance all day, and so
far it was all blue sky, so I headed out about 8:30pm.  Got my ice cream
about 9:30pm (long line...popular place!), and was eating it outside,
watching the western sky.  Saw stars, so I wasn't too worried, but then the
flashes started down near the horizon.  Lots of lightning coming.  There'd
been a storm north of Olney when I got there, but that one wasn't a
problem.  This one was due west, and headed in my direction.  Got a lid for
the ice cream, put it in a plastic bag, and stashed it in the saddle bag,
and headed home...going west, toward the storm.  Temps started dropping,
wind started kicking up, some pretty impressive flashes, some
sky-to-ground, both north and south and directly ahead of my direction of
travel.  Started looking for places to get out if it, in case I didn't make
it home in time.  Bank drive-ups, parking garages, overpasses, even the
front walks of outdoor malls and gas stations with covered pumps.  I had
the rain suit in the saddle bag, but I preferred not to have to use it.
Made it home anyway, but it was getting close, and lightning can travel 20
miles from a storm to hit you.  All went well, but it was getting pretty
tense every time I got stuck at a red light, or behind some cage doing 5mph
under the speed limit in the left lane, next to some cage doing the same in
the right.  I just wanted to get out of the weather ASAP.  I'd washed it
just before I started the muffler work...much nicer working on a clean
bike...so I guess the storm was inevitable.  :-)

>While I was waiting on the Hawg to get out of the shop, I wandered over to
>the Sun Honda dealer and they have a 2002 Hayabusa with 11k and priced at
>$8.2k. No apparent scratches or dings on it. The sales guy didn't know why
>it was traded in. Hmmmm.

Any seat stains?  :-)

-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 11:40:32 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:41:50 -0400
To: "Gary Foreman" <lists@XXXXXX>, "'DC Cycles'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R  - $1800

Might want to point it out to e-bay.  Save some poor idiot a learning
experience and some cash.  Might even get the british cops onto the guy.

-- Mike B.

At 08:45 AM 5/11/04 -0400, Gary Foreman wrote:
>Yeah, I got the same answer.  It's a SCAM for sure.
>
>Gary
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Mark Kitchell [mailto:markkitchell@XXXXXX]
>Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 7:55 AM
>To: DC Cycles
>Subject: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800
>
>here is the answer i got.  What a SCAM!!!!
>
>
>--- mark hermes <mark_hermes2001@XXXXXX> wrote:
>> Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 04:43:06 -0700 (PDT)
>> From: mark hermes <mark_hermes2001@XXXXXX>
>> Subject: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R  - $1800
>> To: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
>>
>> Yes the price is 1800$.
>> I am from London and I sell this bike because is registered in US I
>> can send you the bike via DHL and if you are interested I will pay all
>> shipping taxes.
>> Tell me if you are realy interested to start  the deal with me,
>>
>>
>> Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX> wrote:
>> Hi, is price correct? It seems very low.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> __________________________________
>> Do you Yahoo!?
>> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
>> http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
>>
>> ---------------------------------
>> Do you Yahoo!?
>> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
>
>
>
>
>
>__________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
>http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
>
>
>
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 11:43:11 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:44:30 -0400
To: Skip <skip@XXXXXX>, DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Guess what...

I usually hear them before I see them.  So far all's quiet up here in the
north country... :-)

-- Mike B.

At 11:36 AM 5/11/04 -0400, Skip wrote:
>I've yet to see my first one.
>
>--skip
>
>"Daniel H. Brown" wrote:
>>
>> They're here...
>>
>> http://brauhaus.org/~brown/images/cicada.jpg
>>
>> (taken this morning in my back yard)
>>
>> --
>> Dan Brown
>> brown@XXXXXX
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 11:45:10 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:42:01 -0400
From: Skip <skip@XXXXXX>
CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: COTU - SE Ohio

It's a title to be worn with pride!

anyone can own a Sabre or a Magna, but it takes a different kind of person to
truly be a maggot.

--skip

Bruce N wrote:
>
> Members of the Sab/Mag list are known as maggots. Nice.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Scott Moyer" <smoyer72@XXXXXX>
> To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
> Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 8:30 PM
> Subject: Re: COTU - SE Ohio
>
> > Why's Jeff a maggot?  Just for making up some t-shirts?
> >
> > moyer
> >
> >
> > -------------
> >
> > From: "Custer, Carl" <Carl.Custer@XXXXXX>
> > To: "'DCCycles'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
> > Subject: COTU - SE Ohio
> > Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 16:58:28 -0400
> >
> > 555 isn't as nice as the Dragon, but it's closer.  This spring's healthy
> > helping of cinders left over from the winter certainly made it "puckier",
> > especially in Friday night's (May 7) rain.
> > A Maggot arranged "t- shirts"
> > http://cafeshops.com/jeffconlin
> >
> > Surf Ohio indeed.
> >
> > Carl in Bethesda
> > Cross winds on Rt 60 & I-68 were fun too.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
> > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
> >
> >
> >

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 11:45:11 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:44:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Daniel H. Brown" <brown@XXXXXX>
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Guess what...

On Tue, 11 May 2004, Mike Bartman wrote:

> Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:44:30 -0400
> From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
> To: Skip <skip@XXXXXX>, DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
> Subject: Re: Guess what...
>
> I usually hear them before I see them.  So far all's quiet up here in the
> north country... :-)
>

I've seen easily a couple dozen in the back yard, but none out on the other
side of the house, yet.



--
Dan Brown
brown@XXXXXX

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 12:39:07 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 09:38:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" <pltrgyst@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Harley Update
To: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>, Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>,
   dc-cycles@XXXXXX

--- Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX> wrote:
>.... I don't know why they don't mark the dip stick with "on jiffy" and
> "off jiffy" level marks, but a small jeweler's file should fix it (unless
> some more knowledgeable types here point out where I'm missing something
> critical ;-).

On some bikes, depending on the sump design, when it's on the stand, the oil
might not reach the dip stick at all.

-- Larry





__________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 12:39:42 2004
From: "Jim McGonigle" <jmcgonigle@XXXXXX>
To: "'Skip'" <skip@XXXXXX>, "'DC Cycles'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Guess what...
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 12:39:41 -0400


Saw one on my screen door last night.  Germantown, MD.

-----Original Message-----
From: Skip [mailto:skip@XXXXXX]
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 11:37 AM
To: DC Cycles
Subject: Re: Guess what...

I've yet to see my first one.

--skip

"Daniel H. Brown" wrote:
>
> They're here...
>
> http://brauhaus.org/~brown/images/cicada.jpg
>
> (taken this morning in my back yard)
>
> --
> Dan Brown
> brown@XXXXXX


From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 13:00:26 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 10:00:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Harley Update
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX


--- "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" <pltrgyst@XXXXXX> wrote:
> --- Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX> wrote:
> >.... I don't know why they don't mark the dip stick with "on jiffy" and
> > "off jiffy" level marks, but a small jeweler's file should fix it
> (unless
> > some more knowledgeable types here point out where I'm missing
> something
> > critical ;-).
>
> On some bikes, depending on the sump design, when it's on the stand, the
> oil
> might not reach the dip stick at all.

True. On the Softail, the oil showed about a half-quart low. I may make
the mod Mike suggests, just to make it easier to check the oil. Keeping it
balanced while checking leaves a lot of variables (did I move it too far
this way for example).
>
> -- Larry
>

Carl


=====
02 Harley FXSTI
95 Suzuki GSXR 750W
76 Honda Chopper (in progress)




__________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 13:03:48 2004
Subject: Regional Rant
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 13:07:19 -0400
From: "Julian Halton" <julian@XXXXXX>
To: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>


So yesterday, I decide to leave work circa 2:30pm head out to my
favorite moto store for some supplies.  Without looking out my window, I
decided on 66 West from Ballston.  I hit the entrance ramp and spend
thirty three minutes in my FieldSheer Mach 1 to take the next exit 69
(Falls Church).  Does anyone know where all these people come from?
This is the first time in my life I have had a job with somewhat
flexible time....are all these folk on flex time?  When I take a day off
and get into DC for lunch I am always amazed at the amount of
humanity.....Don't all these people have jobs?  Are they all playing
hooky at once? I am flabbergasted by the amount of traffic  even during
off hours. Rush hour should be renamed Rush day because according to my
empirical research it goes from 5:45 AM until 8:45 PM. What gives?

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 13:22:06 2004
From: <adamme1@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Re: Harley Update
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 13:21:57 -0400

>
> From: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>
> Date: 2004/05/11 Tue PM 01:00:23 EDT
> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> Subject: Re: Harley Update
>
>
> --- "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" <pltrgyst@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > --- Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > >.... I don't know why they don't mark the dip stick with "on jiffy" and
> > > "off jiffy" level marks, but a small jeweler's file should fix it
> > (unless
> > > some more knowledgeable types here point out where I'm missing
> > something
> > > critical ;-).
> >
> > On some bikes, depending on the sump design, when it's on the stand, the
> > oil
> > might not reach the dip stick at all.
>
> True. On the Softail, the oil showed about a half-quart low. I may make
> the mod Mike suggests, just to make it easier to check the oil. Keeping it
> balanced while checking leaves a lot of variables (did I move it too far
> this way for example).
> >
> > -- Larry
> >
>
> Carl
>


odd.  In the service manual for my 01 WideGlide, it specifically states that all oil checks should be done with the jiffy stand *down* and the bike leaning.

-aki


From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 14:03:49 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 10:55:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R  - $1800
To: mark hermes <mark_hermes2001@XXXXXX>

Ok, I am interested but is the bike in the US?  If it
is in England then how is it registered in the US.
Its very important to me that it is a legal bike in
the US.

Who pays the shipping fee?  How much is that?


--- mark hermes <mark_hermes2001@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Yes the price is 1800$.
> I am from London and I sell this bike because is
> registered in US
> I can send you the bike via DHL and if you are
> interested I will pay all shipping taxes.
> Tell me if you are realy interested to start  the
> deal with me,
>
>
> Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Hi, is price correct? It seems very low.
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
> http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs





__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 14:07:19 2004
X-OB-Received: from unknown (205.158.62.49)
  by wfilter.us4.outblaze.com; 11 May 2004 18:07:08 -0000
From: "Euan Fisk" <euan@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 13:07:08 -0500
Subject: Ducati Monster 900 for Sale

A friend is selling his '95 Ducati Monster 900:
____________________
$4,000. Need a quick sale, leaving country. I bought this new in 1996. Garage kept until last week. Ferracci carbon fiber exhaust, 11:1 pistons, crg hindsight bar-end mirrors, 12k miles, new BT-020 tires, new clutch slave cylinder, new belts, new chain. Email to jetcyclist@XXXXXX for pics
--
___________________________________________________________
Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com
http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 14:22:18 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 14:22:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Daniel H. Brown" <brown@XXXXXX>
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Regional Rant

On Tue, 11 May 2004, Julian Halton wrote:

> Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 13:07:19 -0400
> From: Julian Halton <julian@XXXXXX>
> To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
> Subject: Regional Rant
>
>
> So yesterday, I decide to leave work circa 2:30pm head out to my
> favorite moto store for some supplies.  Without looking out my window, I
> decided on 66 West from Ballston.

The "not looking out the window" was the first mistake, the second, of
course, trying to take THAT exit onto 66. I don't think that there are
ANY good times of day for that exit. None. Ever. Just Say No.

A better route from there would be just to get onto Washington Blvd,
in Ballston, go through Westover (maybe stop at the 'Dog for a beer ;-)
past the metro, up the hill and turn left at the Exxon station, over
into Falls Church.

Third mistake, of course, is going to that particular moto store, IMO,
but...  that is a whole 'nother topic.


--
Dan Brown
brown@XXXXXX

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 14:34:12 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 14:34:35 -0400
To: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Harley Update

At 10:00 AM 5/11/04 -0700, Carl Schelin wrote:
>--- "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" <pltrgyst@XXXXXX> wrote:
>> might not reach the dip stick at all.
>
>True. On the Softail, the oil showed about a half-quart low. I may make
>the mod Mike suggests, just to make it easier to check the oil. Keeping it
>balanced while checking leaves a lot of variables (did I move it too far
>this way for example).

Yeah, and if you aren't using a stand of some sort to hold it up, there's
also the "slosh factor".
-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 14:35:13 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 14:32:50 -0400
To: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" <pltrgyst@XXXXXX>,
   Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Harley Update

At 09:38 AM 5/11/04 -0700, pltrgyst@XXXXXX wrote:
>--- Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX> wrote:
>>.... I don't know why they don't mark the dip stick with "on jiffy" and
>> "off jiffy" level marks, but a small jeweler's file should fix it (unless
>> some more knowledgeable types here point out where I'm missing something
>> critical ;-).
>
>On some bikes, depending on the sump design, when it's on the stand, the oil
>might not reach the dip stick at all.

That would be a problem.  On mine, it does though.  When the level is
correct, and it's on the jiffy stand and on more or less level ground (like
my garage...very slight slope for drainage, but nothing that will affect a
reading) it reads about 3/4" up from the end of the stick...down near the
"add" line.

-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 14:35:15 2004
Subject: Moto question raised at lunch
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 14:39:14 -0400
From: "Julian Halton" <julian@XXXXXX>
To: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>


What do you all think about the following scenario:
A father picks up his 11 year old daughter and takes her to school in
the morning on his bike.  This came up at lunch and I was curious to see
how a group of educated moto riders reacts when they see or hear of a
parent taking their child for a ride.



From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 14:35:40 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 14:35:36 -0400
From: Dave Yates <Dave@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Regional Rant
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Julian typed in a fit of traffic induced rage:

>So yesterday, I decide to leave work circa 2:30pm head out
>to my favorite moto store for some supplies.  Without
>looking out my window, ...66 West from Ballston. ...entrance
>ramp ...thirty three minutes ...to the next exit 69 (Falls
>Church).  Does anyone know where all these people come from?

[Dave]  The usual way.  You know...  A man and a woman get
together, and they um... well... like each other...  one
thing leads to another and, bada-bing, bada-bang, there they
are!

>This is the first time in my life I have had a job with
>somewhat flexible time....are all these folk on flex time?

[Dave]  Not a chance.  First, I suggest lining your helmet as
a faraday cage.  If you don't, all the members of the Idiot
Network(tm) will be able to know where you are, and where
you're going.  As soon as you decide where to go, the Idiot
Network will send their minions to interfere with your
plans.  Still, even the vast horde of the idiot network
cannot account for all these bodies... You've got
contractors, stay at home spouses shuttling back and forth
for chores, unemployed folks looking for a job, unemployed
folks going to collect unemployment, people just out for a
spin, shift workers, people who took off to go to DMV/MVA,
and many more...

>When I take a day off and get into DC for lunch I am always
>amazed at the amount of humanity.....Don't all these people
>have jobs?  Are they all playing hooky at once? I am
>flabbergasted by the amount of traffic  even during
>off hours. Rush hour should be renamed Rush day because
>according to my empirical research it goes from 5:45 AM
>until 8:45 PM. What gives?

[Dave]  Too many people, not enough land.  Too many of
_those_ (the too many mentioned above) people feel like
they're entitled to drive.  Some of _those_ folks are
convinced that their time is exponentially more important
than yours.  Screw affordable housing, we need exclusive
housing so we can drive people away.

Dave Yates

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 14:51:37 2004
From: bernescut@XXXXXX
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: Moto question raised at lunch
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 14:51:10 -0400

As long as the tires aren't inflated above 32 psi and only he's using
synthetic oil, it should be OK :)

Seriously, my concerns would be about safety gear (properly sized full-face
helmet, riding pants, jacket and good boots), whether the child can safely
reach the pegs, etc.
Cedric Bernescut
2000 CBR600F4
Annandale, VA

Samuel Colt: The inventor of the original point & click interface.



What do you all think about the following scenario:
A father picks up his 11 year old daughter and takes her to school in
the morning on his bike.  This came up at lunch and I was curious to see
how a group of educated moto riders reacts when they see or hear of a
parent taking their child for a ride.



From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 14:53:36 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:53:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: matthew patton <pattonme@XXXXXX>
Subject: carb setup for a Yam Radian 600?
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

A couple people on this list had Radians recently. Any of you have some
good setup tips for the carbs? I'm rescuing a friend's bike blind. ie.
no manuals, no nothing.

=====
"If you believe what you like in the Gospels, and reject what you do
not like, it is not the Gospel you believe, but yourself."
  -- Augustine of Hippo (AD 354-430)

* A successful marriage isn't finding the right person; it's being
the right person.

* Liberalism always generates the exact opposite of its stated intent.
  -- Jim Quinn (www.warroom.com)

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 14:55:58 2004
Subject: RE: Moto question raised at lunch
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 14:55:48 -0400
From: "Verde, Robert" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>
To: "Julian Halton" <julian@XXXXXX>,
   "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

She's got properly fitting helmet, jacket, boots, gloves, and pants?  She can reach the passenger pegs on the bike?

What's the issue again?  Or, more properly, why does it matter (all other factors being equal) if the offspring in question is eleven, twenty-two, or even female?

;-)

Robert


-----Original Message-----
From: Julian Halton [mailto:julian@XXXXXX]
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 2:39 PM
To: DC Cycles
Subject: Moto question raised at lunch



What do you all think about the following scenario:
A father picks up his 11 year old daughter and takes her to school in
the morning on his bike.  This came up at lunch and I was curious to see
how a group of educated moto riders reacts when they see or hear of a
parent taking their child for a ride.




From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 15:02:15 2004
From: "Jim McGonigle" <jmcgonigle@XXXXXX>
To: "'Verde, Robert'" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>,
   "'Julian Halton'" <julian@XXXXXX>,
   "'DC Cycles'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Moto question raised at lunch
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 15:02:12 -0400


The issue is that as motorcyclist we take extra risks that we have all
accepted.  I would hate to see a child seriously injured without them being
able to make the decision if the risk is worth it (when they are old enough
to understand it).

But I guess if they are properly fitted and your not lane splitting in rush
hour, I wouldn't think too harshly about it.

I've heard about a local guy on a bike (non motorized) with a kid carrier on
the back sometimes.  I think that's more dangerous than what you are
suggesting since the child is younger and I think bikes are more dangerous
on the road than motorcycles.

-Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: Verde, Robert [mailto:Robert.Verde@XXXXXX]
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 2:56 PM
To: Julian Halton; DC Cycles
Subject: RE: Moto question raised at lunch

She's got properly fitting helmet, jacket, boots, gloves, and pants?  She
can reach the passenger pegs on the bike?

What's the issue again?  Or, more properly, why does it matter (all other
factors being equal) if the offspring in question is eleven, twenty-two, or
even female?

;-)

Robert


-----Original Message-----
From: Julian Halton [mailto:julian@XXXXXX]
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 2:39 PM
To: DC Cycles
Subject: Moto question raised at lunch



What do you all think about the following scenario:
A father picks up his 11 year old daughter and takes her to school in the
morning on his bike.  This came up at lunch and I was curious to see how a
group of educated moto riders reacts when they see or hear of a parent
taking their child for a ride.





From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 15:06:40 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 15:06:26 -0400
To: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch

My neighbor takes his daughter ~9yo to school every day on his R1150
BMW.  Full leather and helmets for her, short sleeves for him.  Never
thought twice about it.

At 02:39 PM 5/11/2004, Julian Halton wrote:
>What do you all think about the following scenario:
>A father picks up his 11 year old daughter and takes her to school in
>the morning on his bike.  This came up at lunch and I was curious to see
>how a group of educated moto riders reacts when they see or hear of a
>parent taking their child for a ride.


___________________________________________
     Mike Troutman
         http://www.troutman.org/vfr
         1997 Honda VFR 750
            AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/
            NMA http://www.motorists.org

One who knows the enemy and knows himself
will not be in danger in a hundred battles.
One who does not know the enemy but knows himself
will sometimes win, sometimes lose.
One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself
will be in danger in every battle.
  - Sun Tzu

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 15:06:48 2004
Subject: RE: Moto question raised at lunch
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 15:10:50 -0400
From: "Julian Halton" <julian@XXXXXX>
To: "Jim McGonigle" <jmcgonigle@XXXXXX>,
   "Verde, Robert" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>,
   "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

That was what I was getting at..taking a "kid" whether it be as
passenger on in some kid carrying device, we are assuming a level of
risk not only for ourselves but for someone else maybe not mature enough
to understand. I respect the opinions on this list so I thought I would
ask how you all felt in general about taking your child out for a spin.
I pissed off half my co-workers at lunch today by saying  I will never
give up going to the gym or motorcycling for a relationship.
Someone spat back..."wait till you have kids, you going to take junior
to school on your crotch rocket"..and that got the wheels turning so I
said let's see what those in the know think about it.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim McGonigle [mailto:jmcgonigle@XXXXXX]
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 3:02 PM
To: 'Verde, Robert'; Julian Halton; 'DC Cycles'
Subject: RE: Moto question raised at lunch


The issue is that as motorcyclist we take extra risks that we have all
accepted.  I would hate to see a child seriously injured without them
being able to make the decision if the risk is worth it (when they are
old enough to understand it).

But I guess if they are properly fitted and your not lane splitting in
rush hour, I wouldn't think too harshly about it.

I've heard about a local guy on a bike (non motorized) with a kid
carrier on the back sometimes.  I think that's more dangerous than what
you are suggesting since the child is younger and I think bikes are more
dangerous on the road than motorcycles.

-Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: Verde, Robert [mailto:Robert.Verde@XXXXXX]
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 2:56 PM
To: Julian Halton; DC Cycles
Subject: RE: Moto question raised at lunch

She's got properly fitting helmet, jacket, boots, gloves, and pants?
She can reach the passenger pegs on the bike?

What's the issue again?  Or, more properly, why does it matter (all
other factors being equal) if the offspring in question is eleven,
twenty-two, or even female?

;-)

Robert


-----Original Message-----
From: Julian Halton [mailto:julian@XXXXXX]
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 2:39 PM
To: DC Cycles
Subject: Moto question raised at lunch



What do you all think about the following scenario:
A father picks up his 11 year old daughter and takes her to school in
the morning on his bike.  This came up at lunch and I was curious to see
how a group of educated moto riders reacts when they see or hear of a
parent taking their child for a ride.








From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 15:09:10 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 15:09:00 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
From: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
Reply-To: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
To: "Verde,Robert" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>,
   Julian Halton <julian@XXXXXX>, DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Moto question raised at lunch



-----Original Message-----
From: "Verde, Robert" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>

She's got properly fitting helmet, jacket, boots, gloves, and pants?  She can reach the passenger pegs on the bike?

What's the issue again?  Or, more properly, why does it matter (all other factors being equal) if the offspring in question is eleven, twenty-two, or even female?

;-)

Robert


-----Original Message-----
From: Julian Halton [mailto:julian@XXXXXX]

What do you all think about the following scenario:
A father picks up his 11 year old daughter and takes her to school in
the morning on his bike.  This came up at lunch and I was curious to see
how a group of educated moto riders reacts when they see or hear of a
parent taking their child for a ride.


----------------

Well, if your name is Del. Jean Cryor (Dickens would be proud) then this is a burning issue worthy of the Md. state legislature's attentions.







Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org
95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour]

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 15:10:58 2004
From: Jason Picton <j_picton@XXXXXX>
To: "'Julian Halton'" <julian@XXXXXX>,
   Jim McGonigle
	 <jmcgonigle@XXXXXX>,
   "Verde, Robert" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>,
   DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Moto question raised at lunch
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 15:10:18 -0400

umm... you can get killed crossing the street... I would imagine that if you
are careful - it's not a big deal to take a kid on a bike.... It might even
be safer if you are being extra careful since it's on a bike - whereas, if
car you might not be as mindful - if you are on autopilot while driving
instead of riding... I don't know about the rest of you... But when I ride -
my mind is on the road and what can happen to me if I am not aware - but
when I drive, I am not so alert.......

Jason

-----Original Message-----
From: Julian Halton [mailto:julian@XXXXXX]
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 3:11 PM
To: Jim McGonigle; Verde, Robert; DC Cycles
Subject: RE: Moto question raised at lunch


That was what I was getting at..taking a "kid" whether it be as
passenger on in some kid carrying device, we are assuming a level of
risk not only for ourselves but for someone else maybe not mature enough
to understand. I respect the opinions on this list so I thought I would
ask how you all felt in general about taking your child out for a spin.
I pissed off half my co-workers at lunch today by saying  I will never
give up going to the gym or motorcycling for a relationship.
Someone spat back..."wait till you have kids, you going to take junior
to school on your crotch rocket"..and that got the wheels turning so I
said let's see what those in the know think about it.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim McGonigle [mailto:jmcgonigle@XXXXXX]
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 3:02 PM
To: 'Verde, Robert'; Julian Halton; 'DC Cycles'
Subject: RE: Moto question raised at lunch


The issue is that as motorcyclist we take extra risks that we have all
accepted.  I would hate to see a child seriously injured without them
being able to make the decision if the risk is worth it (when they are
old enough to understand it).

But I guess if they are properly fitted and your not lane splitting in
rush hour, I wouldn't think too harshly about it.

I've heard about a local guy on a bike (non motorized) with a kid
carrier on the back sometimes.  I think that's more dangerous than what
you are suggesting since the child is younger and I think bikes are more
dangerous on the road than motorcycles.

-Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: Verde, Robert [mailto:Robert.Verde@XXXXXX]
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 2:56 PM
To: Julian Halton; DC Cycles
Subject: RE: Moto question raised at lunch

She's got properly fitting helmet, jacket, boots, gloves, and pants?
She can reach the passenger pegs on the bike?

What's the issue again?  Or, more properly, why does it matter (all
other factors being equal) if the offspring in question is eleven,
twenty-two, or even female?

;-)

Robert


-----Original Message-----
From: Julian Halton [mailto:julian@XXXXXX]
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 2:39 PM
To: DC Cycles
Subject: Moto question raised at lunch



What do you all think about the following scenario:
A father picks up his 11 year old daughter and takes her to school in
the morning on his bike.  This came up at lunch and I was curious to see
how a group of educated moto riders reacts when they see or hear of a
parent taking their child for a ride.







From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 15:11:30 2004
From: "Shigeru Honda" <shonda3@XXXXXX>
To: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 15:09:14 -0400


I'd say there's no problem at all with proper skilled rider and gear.
However, the general public opinion of non-motorcyclist would call that
putting a child in extream danger or even treat as murder.
Personally, I'm kind of sick and tired of non-motorcyclist thinking
motorcyclist as stupid, reckless, suicidal, accident waiting to happen.... &
bla bla bla

I had to BS at work about my elbow & shoulder injury from the race at Summit
Point on 4/18 as bicycle accident to avoid getting harassed....

sorry didn't meat to rant...

---------------------
Shigeru Honda
98 SuperHawk (Street)
99 750 SS (Track #881)
02 MZ Skorpion Tour (Commuter)
91 CR80 (new toy)


----- Original Message -----
From: "Julian Halton" <julian@XXXXXX>
To: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 2:39 PM
Subject: Moto question raised at lunch


>
> What do you all think about the following scenario:
> A father picks up his 11 year old daughter and takes her to school in
> the morning on his bike.  This came up at lunch and I was curious to see
> how a group of educated moto riders reacts when they see or hear of a
> parent taking their child for a ride.
>
>
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 15:15:59 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 15:23:06 -0400
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: "Kathleen E. Miller" <millerk@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch

I grew up on the back of my Dad's Gold Wing. (Granted it's a car with two
wheels).

Sometimes he'd sit me in the front; sometimes in back-- always with helmet
and "ankle boots." He's now a certified MSF instructor in Texas and I ride
my own.

Kathleen E. Miller


At 02:39 PM 5/11/2004 -0400, Julian Halton wrote:
>
>What do you all think about the following scenario:
>A father picks up his 11 year old daughter and takes her to school in
>the morning on his bike.  This came up at lunch and I was curious to see
>how a group of educated moto riders reacts when they see or hear of a
>parent taking their child for a ride.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 15:20:18 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 12:20:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Leon Begeman <mriderleon@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch
To: Julian Halton <julian@XXXXXX>, DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

My 11 year old rides.  But, where can I find some good
foam earplugs for her.  The ones I use are too large.
Is there someplace where I can get an assortment of
sizes so she can try several sizes on to see which is
best.

She's been riding since her legs were long enough to
reach the passenger pegs.  And on a Ninja 250, that's
pretty small.

Leon Begeman

--- Julian Halton <julian@XXXXXX> wrote:
>
> What do you all think about the following scenario:
> A father picks up his 11 year old daughter and takes
> her to school in
> the morning on his bike.  This came up at lunch and
> I was curious to see
> how a group of educated moto riders reacts when they
> see or hear of a
> parent taking their child for a ride.
>
>
>





__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 15:24:50 2004
Subject: RE: Moto question raised at lunch - ear plugs
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 15:24:41 -0400
From: "Verde, Robert" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>
To: "Leon Begeman" <mriderleon@XXXXXX>,
   "Julian Halton" <julian@XXXXXX>,
   "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Leon;

I buy my ear plugs from Lab Safety Supply, they have quite a selection.

http://www.labsafety.com/store/product_group.asp?dept_id=12620&cat_prefix=4WA

Robert


-----Original Message-----
From: Leon Begeman [mailto:mriderleon@XXXXXX]
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 3:20 PM
To: Julian Halton; DC Cycles
Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch


My 11 year old rides.  But, where can I find some good
foam earplugs for her.  The ones I use are too large.
Is there someplace where I can get an assortment of
sizes so she can try several sizes on to see which is
best.

She's been riding since her legs were long enough to
reach the passenger pegs.  And on a Ninja 250, that's
pretty small.

Leon Begeman


__________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 15:26:33 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 15:26:11 -0400
To: "Jim McGonigle" <jmcgonigle@XXXXXX>,
   "'Verde, Robert'" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>,
   "'Julian Halton'" <julian@XXXXXX>,
   "'DC Cycles'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Moto question raised at lunch

At 03:02 PM 5/11/04 -0400, Jim McGonigle wrote:
>
>The issue is that as motorcyclist we take extra risks that we have all
>accepted.  I would hate to see a child seriously injured without them being
>able to make the decision if the risk is worth it (when they are old enough
>to understand it).

The same is true for a ride in a car.  The risk values are slightly
different, but riding in a car is still more risky than not riding in a
car, most of the time anyway (if you are bleeding to death, things change
for instance).  If the question is valid for a ride on a bike, it is just
as valid for a ride in a car.  The actual level of risk isn't as important
to the question as that it rises in either case.

Of course, they say that most accidents happen within 20 miles of home, so
the farther you can get the kid away from there, there better...  :-)

I'd worry about any kid too young to hold on, or understand the rules for
being a passenger on a bike, but an 11 year old should be old enough to
handle both of those things.

-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 15:26:45 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 12:26:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: Leon Begeman <mriderleon@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Moto question raised at lunch
To: Jim McGonigle <jmcgonigle@XXXXXX>,
   "'Verde, Robert'" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>,
   "'Julian Halton'" <julian@XXXXXX>,
   "'DC Cycles'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

--- Jim McGonigle <jmcgonigle@XXXXXX> wrote:
> But I guess if they are properly fitted and your not
> lane splitting in rush
> hour, I wouldn't think too harshly about it.

I would think that a bigger problem would be lane
splitting when it isn't rush hour.  Inside DC, I split
lanes if I can do it while maintaining a speed of
15mph or slower.  If I have to go faster than 15, I
don't need to split.  When my 11 year old daughter is
riding with me, I split lanes the same way that I
would if I had a 60 lb box on the back of the bike.
Which is to say, that yes I would split lanes, but not
quite as aggressively as when the bike isn't so
heavily loaded.

Leon.







__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 15:33:10 2004
From: "Jim McGonigle" <jmcgonigle@XXXXXX>
To: "'Mike Bartman'" <omni@XXXXXX>,
   "'Verde, Robert'" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>,
   "'Julian Halton'" <julian@XXXXXX>,
   "'DC Cycles'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Moto question raised at lunch
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 15:33:09 -0400


The risk levels of a child riding in a car in a child seat vs a motorcycle
is night and day.  Its not a fair comparison.  Even a simple low side on a
bike could kill or permanantly injury a child when an adult might walk away
with minor injuries.  It would take one hell of a wreak to do that in a car.

IMHO,
-Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Bartman [mailto:omni@XXXXXX]
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 3:26 PM
To: Jim McGonigle; 'Verde, Robert'; 'Julian Halton'; 'DC Cycles'
Subject: RE: Moto question raised at lunch

At 03:02 PM 5/11/04 -0400, Jim McGonigle wrote:
>
>The issue is that as motorcyclist we take extra risks that we have all
>accepted.  I would hate to see a child seriously injured without them
>being able to make the decision if the risk is worth it (when they are
>old enough to understand it).

The same is true for a ride in a car.  The risk values are slightly
different, but riding in a car is still more risky than not riding in a car,
most of the time anyway (if you are bleeding to death, things change for
instance).  If the question is valid for a ride on a bike, it is just as
valid for a ride in a car.  The actual level of risk isn't as important to
the question as that it rises in either case.

Of course, they say that most accidents happen within 20 miles of home, so
the farther you can get the kid away from there, there better...  :-)

I'd worry about any kid too young to hold on, or understand the rules for
being a passenger on a bike, but an 11 year old should be old enough to
handle both of those things.

-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.


From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 15:35:54 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 15:32:47 -0400
From: Skip <skip@XXXXXX>
CC: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch

Interesting timing for this...

my 9yo daughter wants to ride with me.  I tell her that she cannot until we have
proper equipment: helmet, jacket, pants.  She just had her first communion, and
got about $100 in gift.  after the party, the first thing she said was, "can we
go buy a helmet so I can ride with you?"

ahhhh yes.   this is gonna be great.  I'm training a rider the way they should
be trained.  all the scenarios are going through my mind...   her first
dirtbike, her first street bike, a little moto-touring with my daughter.  this
is one of the rewards of parenting that I'm looking for....

My wife come to me the other day, and says, " no f*ck|ng way in hell! It's too
dangerous!"

so now I'm in a quandry.

she wants to ride, i want her to ride with me.  her mother is dead set against
it.  to Deb's credit, she has ridden, and wrecked before.  she knows it's the
cars that kill us, and that they are largely out of our control.  I cannot
oppose her logic.  it -is- dangerous -- more dangerous than driving a car.  it
is a risk that she is not willing to let me accept for my daughter.


so, how to proceed?

I'm thinking that i will slowly acquire the gear, and take her for short rides
at first, until Deb gets used to the idea.

--skip


Julian Halton wrote:
>
>
> What do you all think about the following scenario:
> A father picks up his 11 year old daughter and takes her to school in
> the morning on his bike.  This came up at lunch and I was curious to see
> how a group of educated moto riders reacts when they see or hear of a
> parent taking their child for a ride.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 15:48:06 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 15:48:32 -0400
To: "Jim McGonigle" <jmcgonigle@XXXXXX>,
   "'Verde, Robert'" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>,
   "'Julian Halton'" <julian@XXXXXX>,
   "'DC Cycles'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Moto question raised at lunch

Where do you find child seats for 11 year olds?

Don't know about your experiences, but when I was 11 I could take falls
without damage that might put me in traction these days...

-- Mike B.

At 03:33 PM 5/11/04 -0400, Jim McGonigle wrote:
>
>The risk levels of a child riding in a car in a child seat vs a motorcycle
>is night and day.  Its not a fair comparison.  Even a simple low side on a
>bike could kill or permanantly injury a child when an adult might walk away
>with minor injuries.  It would take one hell of a wreak to do that in a car.
>
>IMHO,
>-Jim
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Mike Bartman [mailto:omni@XXXXXX]
>Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 3:26 PM
>To: Jim McGonigle; 'Verde, Robert'; 'Julian Halton'; 'DC Cycles'
>Subject: RE: Moto question raised at lunch
>
>At 03:02 PM 5/11/04 -0400, Jim McGonigle wrote:
>>
>>The issue is that as motorcyclist we take extra risks that we have all
>>accepted.  I would hate to see a child seriously injured without them
>>being able to make the decision if the risk is worth it (when they are
>>old enough to understand it).
>
>The same is true for a ride in a car.  The risk values are slightly
>different, but riding in a car is still more risky than not riding in a car,
>most of the time anyway (if you are bleeding to death, things change for
>instance).  If the question is valid for a ride on a bike, it is just as
>valid for a ride in a car.  The actual level of risk isn't as important to
>the question as that it rises in either case.
>
>Of course, they say that most accidents happen within 20 miles of home, so
>the farther you can get the kid away from there, there better...  :-)
>
>I'd worry about any kid too young to hold on, or understand the rules for
>being a passenger on a bike, but an 11 year old should be old enough to
>handle both of those things.
>
>-- Mike B.
>
>'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)
>
>Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
>is better.
>
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 15:50:52 2004
Subject: RE: Moto question raised at lunch
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 15:50:43 -0400
From: "Verde, Robert" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>
To: "Skip" <skip@XXXXXX>
Cc: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Yamaha YSR50.  Just about her size...

<ducking>

However, if your wife considers it too dangerous, you should reach some agreement on how best to proceed (or not, as the case might be).


-----Original Message-----
From: Skip [mailto:skip@XXXXXX]
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 3:33 PM
Cc: DC Cycles
Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch


Interesting timing for this...

my 9yo daughter wants to ride with me.  I tell her that she cannot until we have
proper equipment: helmet, jacket, pants.  She just had her first communion, and
got about $100 in gift.  after the party, the first thing she said was, "can we
go buy a helmet so I can ride with you?"

ahhhh yes.   this is gonna be great.  I'm training a rider the way they should
be trained.  all the scenarios are going through my mind...   her first
dirtbike, her first street bike, a little moto-touring with my daughter.  this
is one of the rewards of parenting that I'm looking for....

My wife come to me the other day, and says, " no f*ck|ng way in hell! It's too
dangerous!"

so now I'm in a quandry.

she wants to ride, i want her to ride with me.  her mother is dead set against
it.  to Deb's credit, she has ridden, and wrecked before.  she knows it's the
cars that kill us, and that they are largely out of our control.  I cannot
oppose her logic.  it -is- dangerous -- more dangerous than driving a car.  it
is a risk that she is not willing to let me accept for my daughter.


so, how to proceed?

I'm thinking that i will slowly acquire the gear, and take her for short rides
at first, until Deb gets used to the idea.

--skip

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 16:07:28 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 13:03:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R  - $1800
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>


--- mark hermes <mark_hermes2001@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 12:58:08 -0700 (PDT)
> From: mark hermes <mark_hermes2001@XXXXXX>
> Subject: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R  - $1800
> To: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
>
> The bike is legal,
> I am from New Your but now i am at my brother in
> London and i have the bike here.
> The bike is legal. Don't worry i will pay the
> shipping
>
>
>
>
> Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX> wrote:Ok, I
> am interested but is the bike in the US? If it
> is in England then how is it registered in the US.
> Its very important to me that it is a legal bike in
> the US.
>
> Who pays the shipping fee? How much is that?
>
>
> --- mark hermes wrote:
> > Yes the price is 1800$.
> > I am from London and I sell this bike because is
> > registered in US
> > I can send you the bike via DHL and if you are
> > interested I will pay all shipping taxes.
> > Tell me if you are realy interested to start the
> > deal with me,
> >
> >
> > Mark Kitchell wrote:
> > Hi, is price correct? It seems very low.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
> >
> http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
> http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs





__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 16:07:45 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 16:09:08 -0400
To: Skip <skip@XXXXXX>
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch
Cc: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

At 03:32 PM 5/11/04 -0400, Skip wrote:

>so now I'm in a quandry.
>
>she wants to ride, i want her to ride with me.  her mother is dead set
against
>it.  to Deb's credit, she has ridden, and wrecked before.  she knows it's the
>cars that kill us, and that they are largely out of our control.  I cannot
>oppose her logic.  it -is- dangerous -- more dangerous than driving a car.
 it
>is a risk that she is not willing to let me accept for my daughter.
>
>so, how to proceed?

Mom's opinion on the matter is as important as yours.  Either of you get
more votes than your daughter does...you are the parents.  Her desires
matter, but they don't rule.  That's how I'd see things anyway.

Some sort of compromise maybe?

If the danger from cars is the main concern on mom's part, how about
starting out riding where there aren't any cars?  Dirt track, trail riding,
trials bike, or something like that?  That's where I got started, and what
I learned came in very handy for street riding too (balance, low speed
stuff, loss of traction incidents, throttle control, clutch control, etc.).
 Besides the lack of cars, the speeds tend to be lower (35 mph through the
woods is almost insanely fast), the surfaces are more resilient in most
cases than concrete or asphalt are, and the armor looks cooler than street
stuff.  :-)

That would let your daughter learn some valuable skills, ride sooner rather
than later (she can do what she likes in another 7 years anyway...and may
do so sooner anyway), use a cheaper bike that can take getting dropped a
whole lot better than the average street bike, provide more excersize for
her, and you (I presume you'd go along with her), probably be easier to
maintain, and, if you get an enduro rather than a dirt bike, allow for
transition to the street on a familiar machine.

The primary problem around here is finding off-road places to ride...but
with a trailer you can get to places farther out I guess, without her
having to ride on the road.  Got any friends with farms?  Some campgrounds
have trails you can ride, or used to.  Some national parks too, but I don't
know about the ones around here.  Most of the places I used to ride out
along River Road are either covered in houses now, or have big "NO
TRESPASSING!" signs up that weren't there 20 years ago.  Maybe there's a
dirt riding club in the area with a place to ride for members?  Worth
checking on maybe.

Mom saying "NO!" won't keep her off bikes, though it may delay it a couple
of years.  As soon as folks in her peer group start riding, she'll bum a
ride with someone...probably far less skilled and careful than you are, who
may be trying to impress her rather than be careful.  My girlfriend was in
that situation when she was a teen (or so I've been told).  Mom and dad
didn't like bikes, so she got rides from friends and acquaintances, and
just didn't tell them.  Her dad almost had a hissy when he saw her on the
back of a bike one day...but he was smart enough to realize that you can't
control and protect your kids forever...all you can do is try to prepare
them well.  Your daughter learning to ride safely under your supervision is
a lot better than her teaching herself, or learning from someone almost as
new to it as she is.

I wanted to ride when I was a kid too, and my mother had the same
objections your wife does.  I took every opportunity that came up anyway,
and just didn't tell mom (had a friend with a Honda Trail 70, and another
with a Kawasaki 250 cc dirt bike).  As soon as I was out of college and
could afford it, I got a bike, and then another.  Though she walked past
them when she visited my house once, she never mentioned it...so I didn't
either.  :-)

-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 16:09:10 2004
From: "Jim McGonigle" <jmcgonigle@XXXXXX>
To: "'Mike Bartman'" <omni@XXXXXX>,
   "'Verde, Robert'" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>,
   "'Julian Halton'" <julian@XXXXXX>,
   "'DC Cycles'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Moto question raised at lunch
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 16:09:08 -0400


Called booster seats.  Unless the 11 year old is over 5 feet or so...

Many school age children should remain in booster seats (see pre-schoolers).
For proper restraint make sure the lap belt fits low over the top of the
thighs and the shoulder belt is across the chest. Never place the shoulder
belt under the arm or behind the back. The safest position for a child is in
the back seat



-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Bartman [mailto:omni@XXXXXX]
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 3:49 PM
To: Jim McGonigle; 'Verde, Robert'; 'Julian Halton'; 'DC Cycles'
Subject: RE: Moto question raised at lunch

Where do you find child seats for 11 year olds?

Don't know about your experiences, but when I was 11 I could take falls
without damage that might put me in traction these days...

-- Mike B.

At 03:33 PM 5/11/04 -0400, Jim McGonigle wrote:
>
>The risk levels of a child riding in a car in a child seat vs a
>motorcycle is night and day.  Its not a fair comparison.  Even a simple
>low side on a bike could kill or permanantly injury a child when an
>adult might walk away with minor injuries.  It would take one hell of a
wreak to do that in a car.
>
>IMHO,
>-Jim
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Mike Bartman [mailto:omni@XXXXXX]
>Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 3:26 PM
>To: Jim McGonigle; 'Verde, Robert'; 'Julian Halton'; 'DC Cycles'
>Subject: RE: Moto question raised at lunch
>
>At 03:02 PM 5/11/04 -0400, Jim McGonigle wrote:
>>
>>The issue is that as motorcyclist we take extra risks that we have all
>>accepted.  I would hate to see a child seriously injured without them
>>being able to make the decision if the risk is worth it (when they are
>>old enough to understand it).
>
>The same is true for a ride in a car.  The risk values are slightly
>different, but riding in a car is still more risky than not riding in a
>car, most of the time anyway (if you are bleeding to death, things
>change for instance).  If the question is valid for a ride on a bike,
>it is just as valid for a ride in a car.  The actual level of risk
>isn't as important to the question as that it rises in either case.
>
>Of course, they say that most accidents happen within 20 miles of home,
>so the farther you can get the kid away from there, there better...
>:-)
>
>I'd worry about any kid too young to hold on, or understand the rules
>for being a passenger on a bike, but an 11 year old should be old
>enough to handle both of those things.
>
>-- Mike B.
>
>'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley
>folks)
>
>Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's
>mistakes is better.
>
>


From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 16:10:58 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 16:10:54 -0400
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R  - $1800

Send a fake check to cover the fake bike.

Contact the FBI.  I am sure they have a team covering these scams.

At 04:03 PM 5/11/2004, Mark Kitchell wrote:
> > The bike is legal,
> > I am from New Your but now i am at my brother in
> > London and i have the bike here.
> > The bike is legal. Don't worry i will pay the
> > shipping

___________________________________________
         Mike Troutman
         http://www.troutman.org

When weapons are blunted, and ardor dampened,
strength exhausted, and resources depleted,
the neighboring rulers will take advantage of these complications
  - Sun Tzu



From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 16:15:23 2004
From: "Shigeru Honda" <shonda3@XXXXXX>
To: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R  - $1800
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 16:13:13 -0400

 > I can send you the bike via DHL
LoL!! funny to see how you tease this guy
Interesting to see how scammers do their BS

---------------------
Shigeru Honda
98 SuperHawk (Street)
99 750 SS (Track #881)
02 MZ Skorpion Tour (Commuter)
91 CR80 (new toy)


----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Kitchell" <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
To: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 4:03 PM
Subject: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800


>
> --- mark hermes <mark_hermes2001@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 12:58:08 -0700 (PDT)
> > From: mark hermes <mark_hermes2001@XXXXXX>
> > Subject: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R  - $1800
> > To: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
> >
> > The bike is legal,
> > I am from New Your but now i am at my brother in
> > London and i have the bike here.
> > The bike is legal. Don't worry i will pay the
> > shipping
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX> wrote:Ok, I
> > am interested but is the bike in the US? If it
> > is in England then how is it registered in the US.
> > Its very important to me that it is a legal bike in
> > the US.
> >
> > Who pays the shipping fee? How much is that?
> >
> >
> > --- mark hermes wrote:
> > > Yes the price is 1800$.
> > > I am from London and I sell this bike because is
> > > registered in US
> > > I can send you the bike via DHL and if you are
> > > interested I will pay all shipping taxes.
> > > Tell me if you are realy interested to start the
> > > deal with me,
> > >
> > >
> > > Mark Kitchell wrote:
> > > Hi, is price correct? It seems very low.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
> > >
> > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
> > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
> http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 16:32:03 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 13:31:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" <pltrgyst@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch
To: Skip <skip@XXXXXX>
Cc: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

--- Skip <skip@XXXXXX> wrote:

> she wants to ride, i want her to ride with me.  her mother is dead set against
> it.  to Deb's credit, she has ridden, and wrecked before.  she knows it's the
> cars that kill us, and that they are largely out of our control.  I cannot
> oppose her logic.  it -is- dangerous -- more dangerous than driving a car.  it
> is a risk that she is not willing to let me accept for my daughter.
>
> I'm thinking that i will slowly acquire the gear, and take her for short rides
> at first, until Deb gets used to the idea.

You could hold off a little bit, and take her riding all you want *after* the
divorce, if you get custody.  8;)

-- Larry





__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 16:52:55 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 13:52:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: matthew patton <pattonme@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R  - $1800
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX


> > > I am from New Your but now i am at my brother in
> > > London and i have the bike here.

and to think he got plates for it in the UK? and past MOT even? I'd
like to see that DHL shipping receipt from US to UK.

=====
"If you believe what you like in the Gospels, and reject what you do
not like, it is not the Gospel you believe, but yourself."
  -- Augustine of Hippo (AD 354-430)

* A successful marriage isn't finding the right person; it's being
the right person.

* Liberalism always generates the exact opposite of its stated intent.
  -- Jim Quinn (www.warroom.com)

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 16:58:12 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 16:57:52 -0400
From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
To: markkitchell@XXXXXX
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R  - $1800
X-AOL-IP: 65.86.98.162

F'ing with the poor Englander who can't even write proper English?  Shame on you.  ;-)

Scooter

In a message dated 5/11/2004 1:55:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time, markkitchell@XXXXXX writes:

>
>
> Ok, I am interested but is the bike in the US?  If it
> is in England then how is it registered in the US.
> Its very important to me that it is a legal bike in
> the US.
>
> Who pays the shipping fee?  How much is that?
>
>
> --- mark hermes <mark_hermes2001@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > Yes the price is 1800$.
> > I am from London and I sell this bike because is
> > registered in US
> > I can send you the bike via DHL and if you are
> > interested I will pay all shipping taxes.
> > Tell me if you are realy interested to start  the
> > deal with me,
> >
> >
> > Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > Hi, is price correct? It seems very low.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
> > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
> http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 17:01:43 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 15:47:08 -0400
To: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Erick Singley <es87m@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Moto question raised at lunch - ear plugs

The foam types abrade my ear channel and I never quite got them to
seal and had to keep toying with them at stop lights (though I
haven't gone through many brands). I've found this type, "Mack's
Pillow Soft Silicone Earplugs"
(http://www.macksearplugs.com/macks.htm)

http://store.yahoo.com/earplugstore/macsilearplu.html
http://www.nic-inc.com/product4/ep00005.htm

works better for me.  I get them at my HMO for under $2 a box - so I
can't say what's a good deal. They're easy to stick in/remove and are
reusable (until I get too much grease on them :) I can still hear
people talking through the helmet - but it cuts the high end wind
noise when I'm moving. Although the instructions say not to split
them, I get a better fit if I do. (I don't know how that changes the
22 decibel rating reduction when I do that)

Erick

At 3:24 PM -0400 5/11/04, Verde, Robert wrote:
>Leon;
>
>I buy my ear plugs from Lab Safety Supply, they have quite a selection.
>
>http://www.labsafety.com/store/product_group.asp?dept_id=12620&cat_prefix=4WA
>
>Robert
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Leon Begeman [mailto:mriderleon@XXXXXX]
>Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 3:20 PM
>To: Julian Halton; DC Cycles
>Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch
>
>
>My 11 year old rides.  But, where can I find some good
>foam earplugs for her.  The ones I use are too large.
>Is there someplace where I can get an assortment of
>sizes so she can try several sizes on to see which is
>best.
>
>She's been riding since her legs were long enough to
>reach the passenger pegs.  And on a Ninja 250, that's
>pretty small.
>
>Leon Begeman

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 17:02:27 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 17:02:17 -0400
From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch
X-AOL-IP: 65.86.98.162

As long as the child is wearing the proper protection and has been instructed what not to do while daddy (or mommy) is driving then I think it is completely alright.  Hell, there are 3yo's driving around on mini dirt bikes nowadays.

Scooter

In a message dated 5/11/2004 2:39:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, julian@XXXXXX writes:

>
>
>
> What do you all think about the following scenario:
> A father picks up his 11 year old daughter and takes her to school in
> the morning on his bike.  This came up at lunch and I was curious to see
> how a group of educated moto riders reacts when they see or
> hear of a
> parent taking their child for a ride.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 17:13:15 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 17:12:59 -0400
From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
To: skip@XXXXXX
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch
X-AOL-IP: 65.86.98.162

In a message dated 5/11/2004 3:32:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, skip@XXXXXX writes:

>
<most of Skip snipped>  :-)

> so, how to proceed?
>
> I'm thinking that i will slowly acquire the gear, and take her for short rides
> at first, until Deb gets used to the idea.
>
> --skip

This sounds like the best plan.  Slowly build her up to the idea and it will eventually happen.  Hell, she's a mom.  My mom STILL doesn't want me to ride but, she's used to it now.  ;-)

Scooter

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 17:13:42 2004
Subject: RE: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R  - $1800
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 17:13:32 -0400
From: "Verde, Robert" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>
To: "Shigeru Honda" <shonda3@XXXXXX>,
   "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Here, fishy, fishy, fishy...

^_^


-----Original Message-----
From: Shigeru Honda [mailto:shonda3@XXXXXX]
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 4:13 PM
To: DC Cycles
Subject: Re: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800


 > I can send you the bike via DHL
LoL!! funny to see how you tease this guy
Interesting to see how scammers do their BS

---------------------
Shigeru Honda
98 SuperHawk (Street)
99 750 SS (Track #881)
02 MZ Skorpion Tour (Commuter)
91 CR80 (new toy)

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 17:18:01 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 14:17:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Re: Harley Update
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX


--- adamme1@XXXXXX wrote:
> >
> > From: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>
> > Date: 2004/05/11 Tue PM 01:00:23 EDT
> > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> > Subject: Re: Harley Update
> >
> >
> > --- "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" <pltrgyst@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > > --- Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > > >.... I don't know why they don't mark the dip stick with "on jiffy"
> and
> > > > "off jiffy" level marks, but a small jeweler's file should fix it
> > > (unless
> > > > some more knowledgeable types here point out where I'm missing
> > > something
> > > > critical ;-).
> > >
> > > On some bikes, depending on the sump design, when it's on the stand,
> the
> > > oil
> > > might not reach the dip stick at all.
> >
> > True. On the Softail, the oil showed about a half-quart low. I may
> make
> > the mod Mike suggests, just to make it easier to check the oil.
> Keeping it
> > balanced while checking leaves a lot of variables (did I move it too
> far
> > this way for example).
> > >
> > > -- Larry
> > >
> >
> > Carl
> >
>
>
> odd.  In the service manual for my 01 WideGlide, it specifically states
> that all oil checks should be done with the jiffy stand *down* and the
> bike leaning.
>

My 2002 Softail Service Manual, page 1-11 (section 1.4)

"Checking Oil Level

Ride motorcycle until engine is warmed up to operating temperature, then
do the following.

1. Idle motorcycle on jiffy stand for 1-2 minutes.

2. Shut motorcycle off and stand vehicle upright.

3. See Figure 1-2. Check level on dipstick. If necessary, add oil until
oil registers at upper groove on dipstick. Do not overfill oil tank."

Seems pretty clear for the 2002 Softail.

> -aki

Carl


=====
02 Harley FXSTI
95 Suzuki GSXR 750W
76 Honda Chopper (in progress)




__________________________________
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Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 17:21:44 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 17:20:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: dan <dan@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: camping

On Tue, 11 May 2004, Glenn Dysart wrote:

> Dan, was this on Friday?  We rode through Flint Hill
> Saturday ~ 9:00 AM and it looked like a tornado had
> been through there.  Many, many trees down, and mud
> and gravel completely_covering_the_roads in some
> areas.
>

Yeah, Friday btwn 5 and 7pm.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 17:37:47 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 17:37:26 -0400
From: Brian Roach <roach@XXXXXX>
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch

I don't want to go off on a rant or anything but...

<RANT>
My dad took me for rides when I was a kid. A young kid. Think
Kindergarden kid. In fact, my Dad took me took Kindergarden on more than
one occasion.

I rode in front of him, between his legs, so I could hold onto the bars
of his Harley. I did have a helmet, I think.

Now ... we are talking rural Ohio - not the Beltway. But lets ignore the
beltway and say we're only talking about side streets and back roads.

I'm still here. Never crashed, never hurt. Had a BLAST on dad's bike.

What are the rules these days? Can't leave your house without a mattress
bungied to your body? Can't possibly ever be exposed to anything that
might be dangerous? Tree-houses built 4 feet off the ground?
</RANT>

:)

- Roach

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 17:39:02 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 14:37:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R  - $1800
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>


--- Dave Yates <Dave@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 17:32:38 -0400
> From: Dave Yates <Dave@XXXXXX>
> Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R  - $1800
> To: mark hermes <mark_hermes2001@XXXXXX>
> CC: markkitchell@XXXXXX
>
> My friend's name is Rita, but you can't visit her
> because she
> works and lives on a secure installation.  She rides
> a
> scooter most of the time due to the high petrol
> prices, but
> she's a qualified motorcycle rider so she'll be able
> to tell
> that it's a good bike.
>
> what's your address?
>
> ---- Original message ----
> >Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 14:08:56 -0700 (PDT)
> >From: mark hermes <mark_hermes2001@XXXXXX>
> >Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R )B - $1800
> >To: Dave Yates <Dave@XXXXXX>
> >
> >   I will give you my address but he can't come at
> my
> >   home because my wife don't accept that , i think
> you
> >   understand me.
> >   Give me your friend name and address
> >
> >
> >   Dave Yates <Dave@XXXXXX> wrote:
> >
> >     Not me, Mark Kitchell has 1st dibs on the
> bike.
> >     Just let
> >     Mark know where my buddy can come to inspect
> the
> >     bike.
> >
> >     Dave
> >
> >     ---- Original message ----
> >     >Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 13:53:29 -0700 (PDT)
> >     >From: mark hermes <MARK_HERMES2001@XXXXXX>
> >     >Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R  -
> $1800
> >     >To: Dave Yates <DAVE@XXXXXX>
> >     >
> >     > You can send the money at your friend via
> >     western
> >     > union , in this way i can check at
> westernunion
> >     > website . And afther i see that you sent the
> >     money i
> >     > will send you the bike
> >     >
> >     >
> >     > Dave Yates <DAVE@XXXXXX>wrote:
> >     >
> >     > Hey Mark (Kitchell),
> >     >
> >     > I've got a mate in London who could probably
> go
> >     > and inspect
> >     > it for you. And let me know if you're not
> >     > interested, I've
> >     > got some spare greenbacks laying around
> too...
> >     >
> >     > Dave Y.
> >     >
> >     > >--- mark hermes
> >     <MARK_HERMES2001@XXXXXX>wrote:
> >     > >> Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 12:58:08 -0700
> (PDT)
> >     > >> From: mark hermes
> <MARK_HERMES2001@XXXXXX>
> >     > >> Subject: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800
> >     > >> To: Mark Kitchell
> <MARKKITCHELL@XXXXXX>
> >     > >>
> >     > >> The bike is legal,
> >     > >> I am from New Your but now i am at my
> brother
> >     > in
> >     > >> London and i have the bike here.
> >     > >> The bike is legal. Don't worry i will pay
> the
> >     > >> shipping
> >     > >>
> >     > >>
> >     > >>
> >     > >>
> >     > >> Mark Kitchell
> >     <MARKKITCHELL@XXXXXX>wrote:Ok,
> >     > I
> >     > >> am interested but is the bike in th! e
> US? If
> >     > it
> >     > >> is in England then how is it registered
> in
> >     the
> >     > US.
> >     > >> Its very important to me that it is a
> legal
> >     > bike in
> >     > >&gt! ; the US.
> >     > >>
> >     > >> Who pays the shipping fee? How much is
> that?
> >     > >>
> >     > >>
> >     > >> --- mark hermes wrote:
> >     > >> > Yes the price is 1800$.
> >     > >> > I am from London and I sell this bike
> >     because
> >     > is
> >     > >> > registered in US
> >     > >> > I can send you the bike via DHL and if
> you
> >     > are
> >     > >> > interested I will pay all shipping
> taxes.
> >     > >> > Tell me if you are realy interested to
> >     start
> >     > the
> >     > >> > deal with me,
> >     > >> >
> >     > >> >
> >     > >> > Mark Kitchell wrote:
> >     > >> > Hi, is price correct? It seems very
> low.
> >     > >> >
> >     > >> > Thanks
> >     > >> >
> >     > >> >
> >     > >> >
> >     > >> >
> >     > >> >
> >     > >> > __________________________________
> >     > >> > Do you Yahoo!?
> >     > >> > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo!
> >     > HotJobs
> >     > >> >
> >     > >>
> >     >
> >
> http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
> >     > >> >
> >     > >> > ---------------------------------
> >     > >> > Do you Yahoo!?
> >     > >> > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo!
> >     > HotJobs
> >     > >>
> >     > >>
> >     > >>
> >     > >>
> >     > >>
> >     > >> __________________________________
> >     > >> Do you Yahoo!?
> >     > >> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo!
> >     HotJobs
> >     > >>
> >     >
> >
> http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
> >     > >>
> >     > >>
> >     > >> ---------------------------------
> >     > >> Do you Yahoo!?
> >     > >> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo!
> >     HotJobs
> >     > >
> >     > >
> >     > >
> >     > >
> >     > >
> >     > >__________________________________
> >     > >Do you Yahoo!?
> >     > >Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo!
> HotJobs
> >     >
> >
> >http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
> >     > >
> >     >
> >     >
> ------------------------------------------------
> >     >
> >     > Do you Yahoo!?
> >     > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo!
> HotJobs
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------
> >
> >   Do you Yahoo!?
> >   Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs





__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 17:40:27 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 14:30:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R  - $1800
To: mark hermes <mark_hermes2001@XXXXXX>

Thats fine since you are paying shipping.

Ok, I would like a friend to see the bike and check it
out.  How can we arrange that?


--- mark hermes <mark_hermes2001@XXXXXX> wrote:
> The bike is in London
>
>
>
> Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX> wrote:Yes I
> want the bike. WHere is it?
>
> A
> --- Dave Yates wrote:
> > Not me, Mark Kitchell has 1st dibs on the bike.
> > Just let
> > Mark know where my buddy can come to inspect the
> > bike.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > ---- Original message ----
> > >Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 13:53:29 -0700 (PDT)
> > >From: mark hermes
> > >Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R  - $1800
> > >To: Dave Yates
> > >
> > > You can send the money at your friend via
> > western
> > > union , in this way i can check at westernunion
> > > website . And afther i see that you sent the
> > money i
> > > will send you the bike
> > >
> > >
> > > Dave Yates wrote:
> > >
> > > Hey Mark (Kitchell),
> > >
> > > I've got a mate in London who could probably
> > go
> > > and inspect
> > > it for you. And let me know if you're not
> > > interested, I've
> > > got some spare greenbacks laying around too...
> > >
> > > Dave Y.
> > >
> > > >--- mark hermes
> > wrote:
> > > >> Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 12:58:08 -0700 (PDT)
> > > >> From: mark hermes
> >
> > > >> Subject: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800
> > > >> To: Mark Kitchell
> > > >>
> > > >> The bike is legal,
> > > >> I am from New Your but now i am at my
> > brother
> > > in
> > > >> London and i have the bike here.
> > > >> The bike is legal. Don't worry i will pay
> > the
> > > >> shipping
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Mark Kitchell
> > wrote:Ok,
> > > I
> > > >> am interested but is the bike in th! e US?
> > If
> > > it
> > > >> is in England then how is it registered in
> > the
> > > US.
> > > >> Its very important to me that it is a legal
> > > bike in
> > > >> the US.
> > > >>
> > > >> Who pays the shipping fee? How much is
> > that?
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> --- mark hermes wrote:
> > > >> > Yes the price is 1800$.
> > > >> > I am from London and I sell this bike
> > because
> > > is
> > > >> > registered in US
> > > >> > I can send you the bike via DHL and if
> > you
> > > are
> > > >> > interested I will pay all shipping taxes.
> > > >> > Tell me if you are realy interested to
> > start
> > > the
> > > >> > deal with me,
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Mark Kitchell wrote:
> > > >> > Hi, is price correct? It seems very low.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Thanks
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > __________________________________
> > > >> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > >> > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo!
> > > HotJobs
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
> > > >> >
> > > >> > ---------------------------------
> > > >> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > >> > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo!
> > > HotJobs
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> __________________________________
> > > >> Do you Yahoo!?
> > > >> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo!
> > HotJobs
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> ---------------------------------
> > > >> Do you Yahoo!?
> > > >> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo!
> > HotJobs
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >__________________________________
> > > >Do you Yahoo!?
> > > >Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo!
> > HotJobs
> > >
> >
> >http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > ------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
> http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs





__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 17:42:03 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 17:40:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: dan <dan@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R  - $1800

On Tue, 11 May 2004, Troutman wrote:

> Send a fake check to cover the fake bike.
>
Didn't someone say they had gotten a fake check from the fake cashiers
check scam?  Monopoly money?  I'm sure he will only accept Western Union.
You could just tell him you sent it!  Have him show up a few times to
collect and get nothing.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 17:55:06 2004
From: "rich hall" <richallmc@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: Moto question raised at lunch
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 17:43:05 -0400

About giving up the bike or gym for a relationship.  I don't plan on that
either.  When I first got out of college my gf then would complain that
she'd rather me spend time with her than go to the gym.  I had been working
out before she came along and didn't plan on stopping.  Any gf that comes
along now knows that I have a motorcycle and that's part of the package.  I
will evaluate things when kids come into the picture because they didn't
choose a dad that rides, but no need for that now.

>From: "Julian Halton" <julian@XXXXXX>
>To: "Jim McGonigle" <jmcgonigle@XXXXXX>,   "Verde, Robert"
><Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>,   "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
>Subject: RE: Moto question raised at lunch
>Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 15:10:50 -0400

I pissed off half my co-workers at lunch today by saying  I will never
>give up going to the gym or motorcycling for a relationship.
>Someone spat back..."wait till you have kids, you going to take junior
>to school on your crotch rocket"..and that got the wheels turning so I
>said let's see what those in the know think about it.

_________________________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 18:01:41 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 15:01:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Harley Update
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX


--- Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX> wrote:
> At 05:29 PM 5/10/04 -0700, Carl Schelin wrote:
> >The nice part is that they bled the rear brake and actually washed the
> >bike.
>
> Batley's always washes the bike after service...unless you want it in a
> hurry or something, like the guy picking his up the other night with an
> approaching thunderstorm.

The first two times I had to take it to East Coast they didn't clean it.
They ran a hose over it last time but it pretty clearly wasn't actually
washed. See http://www.geocities.com/dm_gsxr/eastcoast.txt for the letter
I eventually sent to East Coast.

> Learning experience.

Yea, I did some work on the first harley that required pulling the pipes.
I don't recall offhand what it was but I mis-read in-lbs for ft-lbs and
popped the head of the bolt off of the rear mount. :-/ I'm more careful
now :-)

>
> I just wanted to get out of the weather ASAP.  I'd washed it
> just before I started the muffler work...much nicer working on a clean
> bike...so I guess the storm was inevitable.  :-)

Good job on getting home without getting wet. There was a tornado that
walked across I-70 about 30 minutes or so east of Denver last night. Just
to the east of Limon. It looked pretty impressive and the guys on The
Weather Channel were just about jumping with excitement about it.

When I picked up the bike yesterday, they commented that I might be in a
hurry to get it home before a thunderstorm hit. "Ah, no problem. I've been
wet before." There was some big party at Sun HD on Saturday. Lots of
bikes, free food and band. We hung around for 30 minutes or so before
bailing. There were a couple of real nice looking Pans that folks had
driven up and one bike that looked close to being a chopper. Very fat
front end.

>
> >While I was waiting on the Hawg to get out of the shop, I wandered over
> to
> >the Sun Honda dealer and they have a 2002 Hayabusa with 11k and priced
> at
> >$8.2k. No apparent scratches or dings on it. The sales guy didn't know
> why
> >it was traded in. Hmmmm.
>
> Any seat stains?  :-)

Good thought but I didn't see any blemishes on the bike. With 11k on the
ODO, it seems more likely the guy couldn't afford the insurance. Unlikely
that the license was pulled since I can't imagine selling directly to a
dealer in that case.

>
> -- Mike B.
>

Carl

=====
02 Harley FXSTI
95 Suzuki GSXR 750W
76 Honda Chopper (in progress)




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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 18:05:04 2004
From: (Andrew Culpepper) biga@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 18:04:57 -0400

My Dad took me on short rides and long trips on his brand new 1970
Kawaski Mach III.  I was 9.  In those days, we didn't have to wear
helmets in VA either.

I'll bet that guy lets his daughter climb trees and stuff too.

Andrew


On Tue, 11 May 2004 17:37:26 -0400
  Brian Roach <roach@XXXXXX> wrote:
> I don't want to go off on a rant or anything but...
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 18:08:02 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 15:07:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX


--- Julian Halton <julian@XXXXXX> wrote:
>
> What do you all think about the following scenario:
> A father picks up his 11 year old daughter and takes her to school in
> the morning on his bike.  This came up at lunch and I was curious to see
> how a group of educated moto riders reacts when they see or hear of a
> parent taking their child for a ride.

As far as I'm concerned, as long as she can touch the pegs, she can ride.
My younger daughter was mightily pissed at me because I didn't get a new
bike for almost 10 years after going down on the last one.

I took my 7 year old step-granddaughter for a ride on the Harley last
year. I expect to take her for another one this year. Helmet, gear, able
to put feet on the pegs, and parents approval are all I need.

Carl

=====
02 Harley FXSTI
95 Suzuki GSXR 750W
76 Honda Chopper (in progress)




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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 18:14:22 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 15:14:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Moto question raised at lunch
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX


--- Julian Halton <julian@XXXXXX> wrote:
> That was what I was getting at..taking a "kid" whether it be as
> passenger on in some kid carrying device, we are assuming a level of
> risk not only for ourselves but for someone else maybe not mature enough
> to understand. I respect the opinions on this list so I thought I would
> ask how you all felt in general about taking your child out for a spin.
> I pissed off half my co-workers at lunch today by saying  I will never
> give up going to the gym or motorcycling for a relationship.
> Someone spat back..."wait till you have kids, you going to take junior
> to school on your crotch rocket"..and that got the wheels turning so I
> said let's see what those in the know think about it.

Again, the issue is making sure they can touch the pegs (gear is obvious).
I know I'm more careful (if possible) when I'm carrying someone else on
the back no matter who she or he is. And I didn't give up riding when I
first got married when a friend of mine did after he got married (he went
over a double-yellow line on his Honda 350 which scared him a bit). We
left the wedding reception on my CB360 and had just a bike for the first
year. We eventually got a car (74 yellow Nova) once our first kid was on
the way but I kept the bike until I was transferred to Germany.

Carl

=====
02 Harley FXSTI
95 Suzuki GSXR 750W
76 Honda Chopper (in progress)




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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 18:15:33 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 15:15:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

Walmart has a nice selection. Look in the swimming section.

Carl

--- Leon Begeman <mriderleon@XXXXXX> wrote:
> My 11 year old rides.  But, where can I find some good
> foam earplugs for her.  The ones I use are too large.
> Is there someplace where I can get an assortment of
> sizes so she can try several sizes on to see which is
> best.
>


=====
02 Harley FXSTI
95 Suzuki GSXR 750W
76 Honda Chopper (in progress)




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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 18:17:36 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 15:17:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Moto question raised at lunch
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX


--- Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX> wrote:
> At 03:02 PM 5/11/04 -0400, Jim McGonigle wrote:
> >
> >The issue is that as motorcyclist we take extra risks that we have all
> >accepted.  I would hate to see a child seriously injured without them
> being
> >able to make the decision if the risk is worth it (when they are old
> enough
> >to understand it).
>
>
> I'd worry about any kid too young to hold on, or understand the rules
> for
> being a passenger on a bike, but an 11 year old should be old enough to
> handle both of those things.

I think it'd depend on the kids experience as well. As I said earlier, I
gave my granddaughter a ride and she's 7 but she also goes out dirt-biking
with her brothers and dad so I know she's experienced enough to know how
to ride.

>
> -- Mike B.

Carl


=====
02 Harley FXSTI
95 Suzuki GSXR 750W
76 Honda Chopper (in progress)




__________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 18:22:43 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 15:22:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX


--- Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX> wrote:
> I wanted to ride when I was a kid too, and my mother had the same
> objections your wife does.  I took every opportunity that came up
> anyway, and just didn't tell mom (had a friend with a Honda Trail 70,
> and another with a Kawasaki 250 cc dirt bike).  As soon as I was out
> of college and could afford it, I got a bike, and then another.
> Though she walked past them when she visited my house once, she
> never mentioned it...so I didn't either.  :-)

My parents said no to me as well and I got my first bike after reaching my
first duty station at Ft. Meade. After getting the Honda 360, I rode it
down to Spotsylvania to visit and mom wanted a ride on the back. Turns out
that Dad was the problem. Mom was a biker babe before she was married and
hung out with her brothers who were definately riders (I stayed with my
uncle for a year and he raced bikes; bultaco sticks in my mind).

>
> -- Mike B.
>

Carl


=====
02 Harley FXSTI
95 Suzuki GSXR 750W
76 Honda Chopper (in progress)




__________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 19:11:19 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 19:11:11 -0400
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Aki Damme <adamme1@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Re: Harley Update

At 05:17 PM 5/11/2004, Carl Schelin wrote:

>--- adamme1@XXXXXX wrote:
> > >
> > > From: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>
> > > Date: 2004/05/11 Tue PM 01:00:23 EDT
> > > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> > > Subject: Re: Harley Update
> > >
> > >
> > > --- "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" <pltrgyst@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > > > --- Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > > > >.... I don't know why they don't mark the dip
> stick with "on jiffy"
> > and
> > > > > "off jiffy" level marks, but a small jeweler's
> file should fix it
> > > > (unless
> > > > > some more knowledgeable types here point out
> where I'm missing
> > > > something
> > > > > critical ;-).
> > > >
> > > > On some bikes, depending on the sump design, when
> it's on the stand,
> > the
> > > > oil
> > > > might not reach the dip stick at all.
> > >
> > > True. On the Softail, the oil showed about a
> half-quart low. I may
> > make
> > > the mod Mike suggests, just to make it easier to
> check the oil.
> > Keeping it
> > > balanced while checking leaves a lot of variables
> (did I move it too
> > far
> > > this way for example).
> > > >
> > > > -- Larry
> > > >
> > >
> > > Carl
> > >
> >
> >
> > odd.  In the service manual for my 01 WideGlide, it
> specifically states
> > that all oil checks should be done with the jiffy stand
> *down* and the
> > bike leaning.
> >
>
>My 2002 Softail Service Manual, page 1-11 (section 1.4)
>
>"Checking Oil Level
>
>Ride motorcycle until engine is warmed up to operating
>temperature, then
>do the following.
>
>1. Idle motorcycle on jiffy stand for 1-2 minutes.
>
>2. Shut motorcycle off and stand vehicle upright.
>
>3. See Figure 1-2. Check level on dipstick. If necessary,
>add oil until
>oil registers at upper groove on dipstick. Do not overfill
>oil tank."
>
>Seems pretty clear for the 2002 Softail.
>
> > -aki
>
>Carl


 From my 2001 Dyna Service Manual, page 1-11:


***********************************************************
Checking With Warm Engine

Ride motorcycle until engine is warmed up to operating
temperature, then do the following:

1.  Idle motorcycle on jiffy stand for 1-2 minutes.

2.  Shut motorcycle off and with motorcycle leaning on
jiffy
stand on level ground, check oil level by inserting
dipstick
completely into oil tank filler neck.

3.  Add oil, if required, to FULL mark.  Do not overfill.


For a cold engine, with motorcycle leaning on jiffy stand
on level
ground, oil should register on dipstick between arrows when
engine
is cold.



******************************************************************

I think the difference is because of the inherent design
differences
between Softails and Dynas.

cheers,
-aki


From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 19:14:43 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 16:14:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R  - $1800
To: Dave Yates <Dave@XXXXXX>, mark hermes <mark_hermes2001@XXXXXX>
Cc: markkitchell@XXXXXX

Wait I thought you were visting your brother in
London.  Now your wife lives there.  This is getting
confusing.

I still want the bike though.  How can I send you the
money?

Also, will you take $1600?


--- Dave Yates <Dave@XXXXXX> wrote:
> My friend's name is Rita, but you can't visit her
> because she
> works and lives on a secure installation.  She rides
> a
> scooter most of the time due to the high petrol
> prices, but
> she's a qualified motorcycle rider so she'll be able
> to tell
> that it's a good bike.
>
> what's your address?
>
> ---- Original message ----
> >Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 14:08:56 -0700 (PDT)
> >From: mark hermes <mark_hermes2001@XXXXXX>
> >Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R )B - $1800
> >To: Dave Yates <Dave@XXXXXX>
> >
> >   I will give you my address but he can't come at
> my
> >   home because my wife don't accept that , i think
> you
> >   understand me.
> >   Give me your friend name and address
> >
> >
> >   Dave Yates <Dave@XXXXXX> wrote:
> >
> >     Not me, Mark Kitchell has 1st dibs on the
> bike.
> >     Just let
> >     Mark know where my buddy can come to inspect
> the
> >     bike.
> >
> >     Dave
> >
> >     ---- Original message ----
> >     >Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 13:53:29 -0700 (PDT)
> >     >From: mark hermes <MARK_HERMES2001@XXXXXX>
> >     >Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R  -
> $1800
> >     >To: Dave Yates <DAVE@XXXXXX>
> >     >
> >     > You can send the money at your friend via
> >     western
> >     > union , in this way i can check at
> westernunion
> >     > website . And afther i see that you sent the
> >     money i
> >     > will send you the bike
> >     >
> >     >
> >     > Dave Yates <DAVE@XXXXXX>wrote:
> >     >
> >     > Hey Mark (Kitchell),
> >     >
> >     > I've got a mate in London who could probably
> go
> >     > and inspect
> >     > it for you. And let me know if you're not
> >     > interested, I've
> >     > got some spare greenbacks laying around
> too...
> >     >
> >     > Dave Y.
> >     >
> >     > >--- mark hermes
> >     <MARK_HERMES2001@XXXXXX>wrote:
> >     > >> Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 12:58:08 -0700
> (PDT)
> >     > >> From: mark hermes
> <MARK_HERMES2001@XXXXXX>
> >     > >> Subject: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800
> >     > >> To: Mark Kitchell
> <MARKKITCHELL@XXXXXX>
> >     > >>
> >     > >> The bike is legal,
> >     > >> I am from New Your but now i am at my
> brother
> >     > in
> >     > >> London and i have the bike here.
> >     > >> The bike is legal. Don't worry i will pay
> the
> >     > >> shipping
> >     > >>
> >     > >>
> >     > >>
> >     > >>
> >     > >> Mark Kitchell
> >     <MARKKITCHELL@XXXXXX>wrote:Ok,
> >     > I
> >     > >> am interested but is the bike in th! e
> US? If
> >     > it
> >     > >> is in England then how is it registered
> in
> >     the
> >     > US.
> >     > >> Its very important to me that it is a
> legal
> >     > bike in
> >     > >&gt! ; the US.
> >     > >>
> >     > >> Who pays the shipping fee? How much is
> that?
> >     > >>
> >     > >>
> >     > >> --- mark hermes wrote:
> >     > >> > Yes the price is 1800$.
> >     > >> > I am from London and I sell this bike
> >     because
> >     > is
> >     > >> > registered in US
> >     > >> > I can send you the bike via DHL and if
> you
> >     > are
> >     > >> > interested I will pay all shipping
> taxes.
> >     > >> > Tell me if you are realy interested to
> >     start
> >     > the
> >     > >> > deal with me,
> >     > >> >
> >     > >> >
> >     > >> > Mark Kitchell wrote:
> >     > >> > Hi, is price correct? It seems very
> low.
> >     > >> >
> >     > >> > Thanks
> >     > >> >
> >     > >> >
> >     > >> >
> >     > >> >
> >     > >> >
> >     > >> > __________________________________
> >     > >> > Do you Yahoo!?
> >     > >> > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo!
> >     > HotJobs
> >     > >> >
> >     > >>
> >     >
> >
> http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
> >     > >> >
> >     > >> > ---------------------------------
> >     > >> > Do you Yahoo!?
> >     > >> > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo!
> >     > HotJobs
> >     > >>
> >     > >>
> >     > >>
> >     > >>
> >     > >>
> >     > >> __________________________________
> >     > >> Do you Yahoo!?
> >     > >> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo!
> >     HotJobs
> >     > >>
> >     >
> >
> http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
> >     > >>
> >     > >>
> >     > >> ---------------------------------
> >     > >> Do you Yahoo!?
> >     > >> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo!
> >     HotJobs
> >     > >
> >     > >
> >     > >
> >     > >
> >     > >
> >     > >__________________________________
> >     > >Do you Yahoo!?
> >     > >Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo!
> HotJobs
> >     >
> >
> >http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
> >     > >
> >     >
> >     >
> ------------------------------------------------
> >     >
> >     > Do you Yahoo!?
> >     > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo!
> HotJobs
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------
> >
> >   Do you Yahoo!?
> >   Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs





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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 20:16:01 2004
From: "W.S." <mobacc@XXXXXX>
To: "DC-Cycles" <DC-Cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Classic MC show in NY
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 20:15:40 -0400

From Monday's NYT in a piece about classic Japanese bikes -


"The 2004 Rockefeller Center Motorcycle Show, a free outdoor display in
midtown Manhattan that runs from May 19 to June 6, will include dozens of
examples."


Bill S. / DC
'99 VN750 > Another 25 years and I'm sure I'll qualify (if out of
production.)
Join the AMA.  Help protect my riding fun.



From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 20:16:01 2004
From: "W.S." <mobacc@XXXXXX>
To: "DC-Cycles" <DC-Cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 20:15:40 -0400

This topic jingled some past bells - had to act.  Google came up with the
following one-pager (have at the rest if desired) referencing the "Buddy
Belt" and leading to other info about kids on bikes.  (Offlist me, Julian,
if you'd like me to unearth a copy of the full below article.)

http://www.mcnews.com/mcnews/depts/Proficient_10031.pdf.

Bill S. / DC
'99 VN750 > What's the fuss?  Krazy Glue the tyke to the seat.
Join the AMA.  Help protect my riding fun.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 21:05:29 2004
From: "Ed Hand" <ehand@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: 92 FJ1200 For Sale
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 21:04:47 -0400

I have decided to sell my 1992 FJ1200.  The bike is in good condition, has
36,300 miles, V&H SS2R exhaust, Dynojet stage 3, saddle bags, and shop
manual.  $2800.

Ed

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 21:35:43 2004
Cc: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: David Cross <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 21:35:35 -0400
To: "Julian Halton" <julian@XXXXXX>

I think some of you are missing the ethical gist of his question which
is the more interesting one.  An adult understands the risks involved
and can make that choice. A child probably does not really understand
the level of risk involved or consequences of an accident and can not
make an informed decision.

The adult who puts their child on the back of a motorcycle knows or
should know that they are putting their child in an unnecessarily risky
situation (their is no _need_ for a child to ride on a street
motorcycle). Would a "good" parent put their child at risk
unnecessarily just so the child and parent can have an enjoyable
experience?

For sake of discussion, Im going to assume that their are other methods
of basic transportation available as well as safer ways for parents and
children to have enjoyable experiences together (amusement parks,
hiking, canoeing, etc.). I would also assume that everyone would agree
that in general motorcycling is more risky with greater negative
consequences than other activities such as riding in a car, little
league, etc.

I'm not advocating a position on this one way or the other, just trying
to clear up the question.

dave

On May 11, 2004, at 2:39 PM, Julian Halton wrote:

>
> What do you all think about the following scenario:
> A father picks up his 11 year old daughter and takes her to school in
> the morning on his bike.  This came up at lunch and I was curious to
> see
> how a group of educated moto riders reacts when they see or hear of a
> parent taking their child for a ride.
>
>
>
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 22:23:20 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 22:14:41 -0400
To: (Andrew Culpepper) biga@XXXXXX, DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch

There's a bit that Jeff Foxworthy does about this subject.  Talks about how
over-protective people are these days, and that it's a wonder that anybody
in prior generations survived to become parents.  Says his dad had a 200 lb
TV set sitting on a TV tray, with the theory that if little Jeff pulled it
over on himself, he'd learn not to do it again.  Same with sticking
scissors in the light sockets.

It's just a form of mass hysteria.  Someone, somewhere, loses a kid to
something, so everyone panics and goes overboard trying to make sure it can
never happen again.  They never consider the cost of their "repair".

I never had a bike helmet for a pedal bike until after I was in my 30s.  I
fell off my bike plenty as a kid too, even in the street.  We used to play
all sorts of games we'd made up...like "fighter pilot", which was sort of
like flag football on bikes, and without a ball.  You wrapped a strip of
cloth around each handlebar, and if you could ride up next to someone, and
grab their cloth  off, they were "shot down" and had to go to the nearest
curb (it was in a cul de sack) and fall off onto the grass...and were out
until there was a victor.  One of the kids from across the street thought
it would be a good cheat to *tie* the cloth onto his bike...when I yanked
it, he was turned into me, and we both crashed (given the varying skill
levels, the close riding proximity required, and the excitement of the
chase/"kill", crashes were fairly common anyway :-).  If all the kids in
the area survived stuff like that, without helmets, gloves, knee pads, or
air bags, why are today's kids so delicate that they won't?  I think they
are at least as tough as we were, but the parents have been terrified by
the media and the government, and the kids don't know any better.

-- Mike B.

At 06:04 PM 5/11/04 -0400, Andrew Culpepper wrote:
>My Dad took me on short rides and long trips on his brand new 1970
>Kawaski Mach III.  I was 9.  In those days, we didn't have to wear
>helmets in VA either.
>
>I'll bet that guy lets his daughter climb trees and stuff too.
>
>Andrew
>
>
>On Tue, 11 May 2004 17:37:26 -0400
>  Brian Roach <roach@XXXXXX> wrote:
>> I don't want to go off on a rant or anything but...
>>
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 22:23:31 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 22:04:56 -0400
To: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Harley Update

At 03:01 PM 5/11/04 -0700, Carl Schelin wrote:
>--- Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX> wrote:

>> Learning experience.
>
>Yea, I did some work on the first harley that required pulling the pipes.
>I don't recall offhand what it was but I mis-read in-lbs for ft-lbs and
>popped the head of the bolt off of the rear mount. :-/ I'm more careful
>now :-)

Yeah, I remember you mentioning something about that a while back.  The
clamps are in ft-lbs, but the bolts that hold the mufflers to the crossover
tube are in in-lbs.

>There was a tornado that
>walked across I-70 about 30 minutes or so east of Denver last night.

Wow.  I guess you got to see one from above for the first time, eh?  :-)

-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 22:53:39 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 22:54:45 -0400
To: David Cross <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>,
   "Julian Halton" <julian@XXXXXX>
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch
Cc: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

At 09:35 PM 5/11/04 -0400, David Cross wrote:
>I think some of you are missing the ethical gist of his question which
>is the more interesting one.

Not missing it at all...I thought I addressed it in my response.  I think
you missed the bit about there being risk in lots of other things that
nobody considers this question over...such as car riding.  There are plenty
of other examples though...like this next item.

>The adult who puts their child on the back of a motorcycle knows or
>should know that they are putting their child in an unnecessarily risky
>situation (their is no _need_ for a child to ride on a street
>motorcycle). Would a "good" parent put their child at risk
>unnecessarily just so the child and parent can have an enjoyable
>experience?

Ever take your kid on vacation with you?  Cruise ship?  Airplane?  Maybe
rent a car in Florida at the airport?  None of these things are
*necessary*.  The kid will grow up without them, and they are all risky to
some extent...much more risky than not doing them for sure.  Ships have
disease outbreaks, fires, hijackings, even sink on occasion.  Airplanes
crash, and get hijacked or bombed.  Criminals in Florida, after the passage
of the Shall Issue gun law there, started preying on those in airport
rental cars, since those were some of the only victims they were *sure*
were not armed, as the government guaranteed it with all the metal
detectors and screening before boarding.  A German couple were killed in a
much publicized incident of this sort a while back.  Taking a kid on
vacation is *unnecessary* risk.  What sort of responsible parent would do
such a dangerous thing???

Maybe one who understands risk?  Maybe one who understands that new
experiences are valuable for kids and that this gain can offset some
reasonable risk?  That it's better that the kid ride with a careful parent
than with an inexperienced friend (and that if they want to ride, they will
find a way somehow?).

People in this country (at least) are terrible at evaluating risk.  What's
familiar is generally seen as "safe", and what's unusual is often seen as
"dangerous", regardless of the actual risk factors.  The ride to the
airport in the taxi is usually more dangerous than the airplane flight, but
most people happily get into the cab, and are nervous in the airplane
anyway.  People cancelled plane trips after 9/11 because they were afraid
of terrorists...when, even if you were *in the air*, in the USA, on the
morning of 9/11, you had a less than 1 in 1400 chance of being a victim of
terrorists (there were over 5600 flights in the air over the continental
USA at the time of the hijackings, and 4 were hijacked).  I had a flight
booked for 9/15, and would have happily boarded it, if it hadn't been
cancelled.

I think that calling a parent "bad" because they take their kid on a bike
is...uncalled for.  Besides, how do *you* know that they have an option?
They may very well have a *need* to do so.  There are some on this list who
don't have cars for instance, and public transportation has major
limitations (which subway line goes to Paw Paw, WV?  What's a cab ride out
there cost?  Can't rent a car without a credit card...and not everyone has
credit cards).

>For sake of discussion, Im going to assume that their are other methods
>of basic transportation available as well as safer ways for parents and
>children to have enjoyable experiences together (amusement parks,
>hiking, canoeing, etc.).

Walking is always an option.  If you have the time, everywhere is within
"walking distance".  As for amusement parks, kids have died at those death
traps...roller coasters that jump tracks, ferris wheels that stick and dump
passengers...I've seen video of such things on TV several times.  Hiking?
You want your kid eaten by bears?  What's the matter with you?!  If the
bears don't get him, maybe Lyme disease will, or a fall off a cliff, or a
sudden rainstorm and a flash flood!  Horrors!  Canoeing is even worse!  Two
words: "keeper eddy"...<shudder>.

No, any *responsible* parent will keep their kids at home, under constant
supervision, preferably wrapped in fire-retardant bubble wrap in a
bomb-proof vault with a good radon elimination system running constantly,
and the kid hooked up to various bio-sensor monitoring systems.  Anything
else is unnecessary risk, and other hysterical people might think you are a
bad parent if you don't...

>I would also assume that everyone would agree
>that in general motorcycling is more risky with greater negative
>consequences than other activities such as riding in a car, little
>league, etc.

Riding in a car, probably.  Little league?  Kids have died from that...and
just how *necessary* is it anyway??  Best just stay home...

>I'm not advocating a position on this one way or the other, just trying
>to clear up the question.

I'm just trying to let a little common sense into it.  Any time you
evaluate risk without considering rewards you will come up with the wrong
answer.  It's a balancing act, and you have to include both aspects; limit
the risk as much as possible without losing too much of the reward.  Where
you draw the line is up for debate I guess, but too many of the conclusions
our society comes up with seem way out of balance, and based on the fantasy
of total safety being achievable.  Leave it up to the parents, and just
think of it as evolution in action if you have a problem with what they
do...so long as it doesn't affect *your* kids anyway.



-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 23:09:43 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 23:11:08 -0400
To: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch

At 03:22 PM 5/11/04 -0700, Carl Schelin wrote:
>
>uncle for a year and he raced bikes; bultaco sticks in my mind).

Summer before college I worked pumping gas at an Exxon Car Care Center with
a girl who was nuts over Bultacos.  I'd never heard of them before, but
that's all she talked about.

The name appears in a joke about a guy (probably named "Carl") who builds a
bike from bits and pieces scavenged from a junkyard.  He ends up with a
"Kawahonsukiyamataco-Davidson"...

I believe they were Spanish bikes, and not heavily imported into the US.
Don't know if they are still around or not.

-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 23:13:15 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 23:10:30 -0400
To: Aki Damme <adamme1@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Re: Harley Update

At 07:11 PM 5/11/04 -0400, Aki Damme wrote:
>At 05:17 PM 5/11/2004, Carl Schelin wrote:
>>
>>My 2002 Softail Service Manual, page 1-11 (section 1.4)
<snip>
>>2. Shut motorcycle off and stand vehicle upright.
>>
>>3. See Figure 1-2. Check level on dipstick. If necessary,
<snip>
> From my 2001 Dyna Service Manual, page 1-11:
>
>***********************************************************
<snip>
>2.  Shut motorcycle off and with motorcycle leaning on
>jiffy stand on level ground, check oil level by inserting
>dipstick completely into oil tank filler neck.
<snip>
>
>I think the difference is because of the inherent design
>differences between Softails and Dynas.

Yeah, like having different engines...

Dyna = TC88
Softail = TC88-B

The oil tanks are likely different too, which is probably more critical.
My '04 FLSTCI has the same instructions as Carl's bike.

-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 23:23:40 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 23:25:06 -0400
To: Bruce Brownlee <brownlee_b@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: HDI EFI

At 08:18 PM 5/7/04 -0400, Bruce Brownlee wrote:
>Sorry Mike, I dont want to get into a micturation contest, but you couldnt
>be more
>wrong about HDI EFI.
>As someone who studied in detail the first generation (Bosch type) open loop
>system and specifically upgraded to an 02 because of the closed loop 'type'
>system, I've read (and worked on) a fair share.

Not interested in any contests either...thanks for the info.

How does the "mapping" or "download" work then?  I'd thought it was a
lookup table of some sort, based on a given hardware setup.  You seem to be
saying it's more dynamic than that.  That there's a CPU running equations
or something, so that no matter how much you change the air flow into the
engine, it will always match it up with the proper amount of fuel, spark at
the right time, etc..  If that's the case, why do you need to change the
"download" when you swap the air cleaner for one that flows better?  I've
been told that failing to do that will result in an overly lean condition
with the "Stage 1 air cleaner kit" for instance.  If the ECU can adapt to
any pressure change, it should be able to handle a more open air cleaner
too...both will affect the amount of O2 getting into the engine...but
apparently it can't without different software.  I don't understand why
that might be if what you are saying is true (and I've got no reason to
doubt you about it).  It's a puzzle to me at this point.

Also, in the Power Commander articles and ads and web site I've looked at,
it appeared that what you were programming was a lookup table.  For X
amount of air, use Y amount of fuel, and shift the timing by Z if the
throttle position is W.  Maybe those things work completely differently
from the way the ECU works?  I know they output by adjusting the values
from the ECU, but how they decide on the outputs seems to be with a simple
lookup.

>The map (by definition) is optimized for all conditions.  Most people report
>exceptional performance at altitude.  Think a type of heuristic approach.
>I think theres something like 5 sensors (air temp, density, throttle
position,
>cam position, etc) that are used to determine mixture (or injector duration,
>in EFI talk).  Devices such as the powercommander allow those to be modified
>by the owner (I had one on my '95) but they STILL operate using the same
>concept.  Read ambient settings, adjust duration, timing, etc based on what
>the map says.  There is absolutely NO "tuning to average conditions" like
>occur with carbs.  The absolute conditions are matched to optimal settings
>based on the programmers historical testing.

So maybe the new downloads are required when the hardware (like an air
filter) changes enough to take the inputs out of the range covered by the
existing map, and you need a new one with different value ranges?  Things
like TFIs or PCs are for when you disagree with the manufacturer about what
the mapping should be, perhaps because you've done custom mods to the engine?

If so, then I think I understand.  If not, please enlighten me.

-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 23:41:22 2004
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 20:41:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Harley Update
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX


--- Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX> wrote:
> At 03:01 PM 5/11/04 -0700, Carl Schelin wrote:
> >--- Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX> wrote:
>
> >There was a tornado that
> >walked across I-70 about 30 minutes or so east of Denver last night.
>
> Wow.  I guess you got to see one from above for the first time, eh?  :-)

Nope. 30 minutes is still quite a ways away, especially on a fast sport
bike ;-)

Wait, "from above"?

Still though, we're a bit far away to be seeing it. The pictures on TWC
were pretty good even if it was only an F1 tornado.

>
> -- Mike B.

Carl


=====
02 Harley FXSTI
95 Suzuki GSXR 750W
76 Honda Chopper (in progress)




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2'
http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 00:53:47 2004
Cc: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>, Julian Halton <julian@XXXXXX>
From: David Cross <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 00:53:40 -0400
To: "bob@meyerweb" <bob@XXXXXX>


On May 11, 2004, at 11:19 PM, bob@meyerweb wrote:

>  That's not a decision for you, or society, to make about my child.
> It's one for each family to make on their own.

Bob, as I said, I was not advocating a position one way or the other.
However, I am sure you are willing to agree that there are
circumstances when society does need to make decisions about other
peoples children, not that it applies to this discussion, such as its
not OK for a parent to abuse their child.

In fact, whether we like it or not society does sometimes tell us what
is an unacceptable risk for our children, such as laws that say it is
too risky for a child to ride their bicycle without a helmet on, or
that its too risky to let a child ride in a vehicle without being in a
child safety seat, or that its too risky to leave a child in a car
while the parent goes into a store to get groceries.

If you saw a child in a car not in their child safety seat what would
you think of that parent? Perhaps they are not so different form the
parent who puts their kid on the back of a motorcycle? Which child is
really in more danger here, the child in the car or on the back of the
bike?


> I've never had a serious injury on a motorcycle, but I've cracked a
> rib in a car accident.

Well there's all the proof we need! Its settled: You are more likely to
be injured in a car then on a motorcycle!  Unfortunately the
motorcyclist who have been killed are not here to tell us that "I never
was injured in a car accident, but I was killed on my motorcyle."
Usually we require a larger sample size when making statistical
inferences, there are much smarter people than I on this list who will
tell you that. I would also guess that you have spent many more miles
in cars than on motorcycles, but I could be wrong.

> Heck, as a kid I had worse injuries on a bicycle than I've had in any
> activity as an adult.  I broke my foot walking down a flight of
> stairs. Based on my experience, my kid may be safer on the back of my
> bike than doing a lot of other things.  Life is full of risks.

Sure if you base everything on your own personal experience, however I
hope you are smatter than that. Life if full of risks . . . of course.
But certain things tend to be riskier than others. Wouldn't you agree
that riding 100,000 miles on a motorcycle is more risky than those same
100,000 miles in a car, all else being equal? Again, think large sample
size and not anecdotal experience.

> Hmm, people get killed and injured in amusement parks, and people
> drown every year in canoing accidents.  So are those risks
> "necessary?"  Maybe it's not a good idea to take my boys to Kings
> Dominion.  It would be much safer to keep them indoors watching TV and
> playing video games, I guess.

Again, thinks statistics and the big picture. How many millions of
people go to amusements parks and how many die there?  Compare those
figures to motorcycling and I would wager you see a large difference in
the level of risk involved (I have no proof, its just a guess I admit).
   In my comments I said "safer" ways of enjoyment.  Not the complete
elimination of all risk which you would agree is impossible.

Again, I am not personally advocating any position on this subject
(although it may appear that way).

dave


From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 08:22:31 2004
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 04:52:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R  - $1800
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Anyone want to loan me $1600???

What should I do next?
--- mark hermes <mark_hermes2001@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 03:21:36 -0700 (PDT)
> From: mark hermes <mark_hermes2001@XXXXXX>
> Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R  - $1800
> To: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
>
> Ok ,
> Send me $1600 via westen union.
> And give me your name and address for shipping , i
> am ready to send you the bike.
> This is my western union detalies:
> Mark Hermes
> 17 central circus
> NW4 3AS
> London
> England
>
> I am in London with my wife at my broather.
>
> Best regards
>
>
> Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX> wrote:Wait I
> thought you were visting your brother in
> London. Now your wife lives there. This is getting
> confusing.
>
> I still want the bike though. How can I send you the
> money?
>
> Also, will you take $1600?
>
>
> --- Dave Yates wrote:
> > My friend's name is Rita, but you can't visit her
> > because she
> > works and lives on a secure installation. She
> rides
> > a
> > scooter most of the time due to the high petrol
> > prices, but
> > she's a qualified motorcycle rider so she'll be
> able
> > to tell
> > that it's a good bike.
> >
> > what's your address?
> >
> > ---- Original message ----
> > >Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 14:08:56 -0700 (PDT)
> > >From: mark hermes
> > >Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R  - $1800
> > >To: Dave Yates
> > >
> > > I will give you my address but he can't come at
> > my
> > > home because my wife don't accept that , i think
> > you
> > > understand me.
> > > Give me your friend name and address
> > >
> > >
> > > Dave Yates wrote:
> > >
> > > Not me, Mark Kitchell has 1st dibs on the
> > bike.
> > > Just let
> > > Mark know where my buddy can come to inspect
> > the
> > > bike.
> > >
> > > Dave
> > >
> > > ---- Original message ----
> > > >Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 13:53:29 -0700 (PDT)
> > > >From: mark hermes
> > > >Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R -
> > $1800
> > > >To: Dave Yates
> > > >
> > > > You can send the money at your friend via
> > > western
> > > > union , in this way i can check at
> > westernunion
> > > > website . And afther i see that you sent the
> > > money i
> > > > will send you the bike
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Dave Yates wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hey Mark (Kitchell),
> > > >
> > > > I've got a mate in London who could probably
> > go
> > > > and inspect
> > > > it for you. And let me know if you're not
> > > > interested, I've
> > > > got some spare greenbacks laying around
> > too...
> > > >
> > > > Dave Y.
> > > >
> > > > >--- mark hermes
> > > wrote:
> > > > >> Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 12:58:08 -0700
> > (PDT)
> > > > >> From: mark hermes
> >
> > > > >> Subject: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800
> > > > >> To: Mark Kitchell
> >
> > > > >>
> > > > >> The bike is legal,
> > > > >> I am from New Your but now i am at my
> > brother
> > > > in
> > > > >> London and i have the bike here.
> > > > >> The bike is legal. Don't worry i will pay
> > the
> > > > >> shipping
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Mark Kitchell
> > > wrote:Ok,
> > > > I
> > > > >> am interested but is the bike in th! e
> > US? If
> > > > it
> > > > >> is in England then how is it registered
> > in
> > > the
> > > > US.
> > > > >> Its very important to me that it is a
> > legal
> > > > bike in
> > > > >>! ; the US.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Who pays the shipping fee? How much is
> > that?
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> --- mark hermes wrote:
> > > > >> > Yes the price is 1800$.
> > > > >> > I am from London and I sell this bike
> > > because
> > > > is
> > > > >> > registered in US
> > > > >> > I can send you the bike via DHL and if
> > you
> > > > are
> > > > >> > interested I will pay all shipping
> > taxes.
> > > > >> > Tell me if you are realy interested to
> > > start
> > > > the
> > > > >> > deal with me,
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Mark Kitchell wrote:
> > > > >> > Hi, is price correct? It seems very
> > low.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Thanks
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > __________________________________
> > > > >> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > >> > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo!
> > > > HotJobs
> > > > >> >
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > ---------------------------------
> > > > >> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > >> > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo!
> > > > HotJobs
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> __________________________________
> > > > >> Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > >> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo!
> > > HotJobs
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> ---------------------------------
> > > > >> Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > >> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo!
> > > HotJobs
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >__________________________________
> > > > >Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > >Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo!
> > HotJobs
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > ------------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo!
> > HotJobs
> > >
> > >
> > ------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
> http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2'





__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2'
http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 08:36:32 2004
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 08:36:27 -0400
From: Dave Yates <Dave@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R  - $1800
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Mark,

  Do you still want Rita to buzz over and have a look at it
for you ?  ;-)

Dave


>
>Anyone want to loan me $1600???
>
>What should I do next?
>--- mark hermes <mark_hermes2001@XXXXXX> wrote:
>> Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 03:21:36 -0700 (PDT)
>> From: mark hermes <mark_hermes2001@XXXXXX>
>> Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R  - $1800
>> To: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
>>
>> Ok ,
>> Send me $1600 via westen union.
>> And give me your name and address for shipping , i
>> am ready to send you the bike.
>> This is my western union detalies:
>> Mark Hermes
>> 17 central circus
>> NW4 3AS
>> London
>> England
>>
>> I am in London with my wife at my broather.
>>
>> Best regards
>>
>>
>> Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX> wrote:Wait I
>> thought you were visting your brother in
>> London. Now your wife lives there. This is getting
>> confusing.
>>
>> I still want the bike though. How can I send you the
>> money?
>>
>> Also, will you take $1600?
>>
>>
>> --- Dave Yates wrote:
>> > My friend's name is Rita, but you can't visit her
>> > because she
>> > works and lives on a secure installation. She
>> rides
>> > a
>> > scooter most of the time due to the high petrol
>> > prices, but
>> > she's a qualified motorcycle rider so she'll be
>> able
>> > to tell
>> > that it's a good bike.
>> >
>> > what's your address?
>> >
>> > ---- Original message ----
>> > >Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 14:08:56 -0700 (PDT)
>> > >From: mark hermes
>> > >Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R  - $1800
>> > >To: Dave Yates
>> > >
>> > > I will give you my address but he can't come at
>> > my
>> > > home because my wife don't accept that , i think
>> > you
>> > > understand me.
>> > > Give me your friend name and address
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Dave Yates wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Not me, Mark Kitchell has 1st dibs on the
>> > bike.
>> > > Just let
>> > > Mark know where my buddy can come to inspect
>> > the
>> > > bike.
>> > >
>> > > Dave
>> > >
>> > > ---- Original message ----
>> > > >Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 13:53:29 -0700 (PDT)
>> > > >From: mark hermes
>> > > >Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R -
>> > $1800
>> > > >To: Dave Yates
>> > > >
>> > > > You can send the money at your friend via
>> > > western
>> > > > union , in this way i can check at
>> > westernunion
>> > > > website . And afther i see that you sent the
>> > > money i
>> > > > will send you the bike
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Dave Yates wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > Hey Mark (Kitchell),
>> > > >
>> > > > I've got a mate in London who could probably
>> > go
>> > > > and inspect
>> > > > it for you. And let me know if you're not
>> > > > interested, I've
>> > > > got some spare greenbacks laying around
>> > too...
>> > > >
>> > > > Dave Y.
>> > > >
>> > > > >--- mark hermes
>> > > wrote:
>> > > > >> Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 12:58:08 -0700
>> > (PDT)
>> > > > >> From: mark hermes
>> >
>> > > > >> Subject: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800
>> > > > >> To: Mark Kitchell
>> >
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> The bike is legal,
>> > > > >> I am from New Your but now i am at my
>> > brother
>> > > > in
>> > > > >> London and i have the bike here.
>> > > > >> The bike is legal. Don't worry i will pay
>> > the
>> > > > >> shipping
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> Mark Kitchell
>> > > wrote:Ok,
>> > > > I
>> > > > >> am interested but is the bike in th! e
>> > US? If
>> > > > it
>> > > > >> is in England then how is it registered
>> > in
>> > > the
>> > > > US.
>> > > > >> Its very important to me that it is a
>> > legal
>> > > > bike in
>> > > > >>! ; the US.
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> Who pays the shipping fee? How much is
>> > that?
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> --- mark hermes wrote:
>> > > > >> > Yes the price is 1800$.
>> > > > >> > I am from London and I sell this bike
>> > > because
>> > > > is
>> > > > >> > registered in US
>> > > > >> > I can send you the bike via DHL and if
>> > you
>> > > > are
>> > > > >> > interested I will pay all shipping
>> > taxes.
>> > > > >> > Tell me if you are realy interested to
>> > > start
>> > > > the
>> > > > >> > deal with me,
>> > > > >> >
>> > > > >> >
>> > > > >> > Mark Kitchell wrote:
>> > > > >> > Hi, is price correct? It seems very
>> > low.
>> > > > >> >
>> > > > >> > Thanks
>> > > > >> >
>> > > > >> >
>> > > > >> >
>> > > > >> >
>> > > > >> >
>> > > > >> > __________________________________
>> > > > >> > Do you Yahoo!?
>> > > > >> > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo!
>> > > > HotJobs
>> > > > >> >
>> > > > >>
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>> http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
>> > > > >> >
>> > > > >> > ---------------------------------
>> > > > >> > Do you Yahoo!?
>> > > > >> > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo!
>> > > > HotJobs
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> __________________________________
>> > > > >> Do you Yahoo!?
>> > > > >> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo!
>> > > HotJobs
>> > > > >>
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>> http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> ---------------------------------
>> > > > >> Do you Yahoo!?
>> > > > >> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo!
>> > > HotJobs
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >__________________________________
>> > > > >Do you Yahoo!?
>> > > > >Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo!
>> > HotJobs
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > ------------------------------------------------
>> > > >
>> > > > Do you Yahoo!?
>> > > > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo!
>> > HotJobs
>> > >
>> > >
>> > ------------------------------------------------
>> > >
>> > > Do you Yahoo!?
>> > > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> __________________________________
>> Do you Yahoo!?
>> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
>> http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------
>> Do you Yahoo!?
>> Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2'
>
>
>
>
>
>__________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2'
>http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 08:41:14 2004
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 08:37:50 -0400
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Dan Brown <brown@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R  - $1800

At 04:52 AM 5/12/2004 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote:
>Anyone want to loan me $1600???
>
>What should I do next?


Ask for pictures? With a current news paper?

Write a check for $1600, send some digi pics of the check and say you're
going to fedex it. Maybe even spend the $$ for the fedex so you have a
tracking #. You could always send an empty envelope with a taped up slice in
it ;-)

As for the VIN? You need to check and see how much it costs to insure, right?
Your insurance person certainly will want that.





>--- mark hermes <mark_hermes2001@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 03:21:36 -0700 (PDT)
> > From: mark hermes <mark_hermes2001@XXXXXX>
> > Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R  - $1800
> > To: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
> >
> > Ok ,
> > Send me $1600 via westen union.
> > And give me your name and address for shipping , i
> > am ready to send you the bike.
> > This is my western union detalies:
> > Mark Hermes
> > 17 central circus
> > NW4 3AS
> > London
> > England
> >
> > I am in London with my wife at my broather.
> >
> > Best regards
> >
> >
> > Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX> wrote:Wait I
> > thought you were visting your brother in
> > London. Now your wife lives there. This is getting
> > confusing.
> >
> > I still want the bike though. How can I send you the
> > money?
> >
> > Also, will you take $1600?
> >
> >
> > --- Dave Yates wrote:
> > > My friend's name is Rita, but you can't visit her
> > > because she
> > > works and lives on a secure installation. She
> > rides
> > > a
> > > scooter most of the time due to the high petrol
> > > prices, but
> > > she's a qualified motorcycle rider so she'll be
> > able
> > > to tell
> > > that it's a good bike.
> > >
> > > what's your address?
> > >
> > > ---- Original message ----
> > > >Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 14:08:56 -0700 (PDT)
> > > >From: mark hermes
> > > >Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R  - $1800
> > > >To: Dave Yates
> > > >
> > > > I will give you my address but he can't come at
> > > my
> > > > home because my wife don't accept that , i think
> > > you
> > > > understand me.
> > > > Give me your friend name and address
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Dave Yates wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Not me, Mark Kitchell has 1st dibs on the
> > > bike.
> > > > Just let
> > > > Mark know where my buddy can come to inspect
> > > the
> > > > bike.
> > > >
> > > > Dave
> > > >
> > > > ---- Original message ----
> > > > >Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 13:53:29 -0700 (PDT)
> > > > >From: mark hermes
> > > > >Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R -
> > > $1800
> > > > >To: Dave Yates
> > > > >
> > > > > You can send the money at your friend via
> > > > western
> > > > > union , in this way i can check at
> > > westernunion
> > > > > website . And afther i see that you sent the
> > > > money i
> > > > > will send you the bike
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Dave Yates wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hey Mark (Kitchell),
> > > > >
> > > > > I've got a mate in London who could probably
> > > go
> > > > > and inspect
> > > > > it for you. And let me know if you're not
> > > > > interested, I've
> > > > > got some spare greenbacks laying around
> > > too...
> > > > >
> > > > > Dave Y.
> > > > >
> > > > > >--- mark hermes
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > >> Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 12:58:08 -0700
> > > (PDT)
> > > > > >> From: mark hermes
> > >
> > > > > >> Subject: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800
> > > > > >> To: Mark Kitchell
> > >
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> The bike is legal,
> > > > > >> I am from New Your but now i am at my
> > > brother
> > > > > in
> > > > > >> London and i have the bike here.
> > > > > >> The bike is legal. Don't worry i will pay
> > > the
> > > > > >> shipping
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Mark Kitchell
> > > > wrote:Ok,
> > > > > I
> > > > > >> am interested but is the bike in th! e
> > > US? If
> > > > > it
> > > > > >> is in England then how is it registered
> > > in
> > > > the
> > > > > US.
> > > > > >> Its very important to me that it is a
> > > legal
> > > > > bike in
> > > > > >>! ; the US.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Who pays the shipping fee? How much is
> > > that?
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> --- mark hermes wrote:
> > > > > >> > Yes the price is 1800$.
> > > > > >> > I am from London and I sell this bike
> > > > because
> > > > > is
> > > > > >> > registered in US
> > > > > >> > I can send you the bike via DHL and if
> > > you
> > > > > are
> > > > > >> > interested I will pay all shipping
> > > taxes.
> > > > > >> > Tell me if you are realy interested to
> > > > start
> > > > > the
> > > > > >> > deal with me,
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Mark Kitchell wrote:
> > > > > >> > Hi, is price correct? It seems very
> > > low.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Thanks
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > __________________________________
> > > > > >> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > > >> > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo!
> > > > > HotJobs
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > ---------------------------------
> > > > > >> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > > >> > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo!
> > > > > HotJobs
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> __________________________________
> > > > > >> Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > > >> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo!
> > > > HotJobs
> > > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> ---------------------------------
> > > > > >> Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > > >> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo!
> > > > HotJobs
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >__________________________________
> > > > > >Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > > >Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo!
> > > HotJobs
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo!
> > > HotJobs
> > > >
> > > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
> > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2'
>
>
>
>
>
>__________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2'
>http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861

--
Resist or Serve

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 08:53:47 2004
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 08:53:44 -0400
From: Dave Yates <Dave@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Bob M put his foot down:

>On May 11, 2004, at 11:19 PM, bob@meyerweb wrote:
>
>>  That's not a decision for you, or society, to make about
>>  my child.
>>  It's one for each family to make on their own.
>
>Bob, as I said, I was not advocating a position one way or
>the other.  However, I am sure you are willing to agree that
>there are circumstances when society does need to make
>decisions about other peoples children, not that it applies
>to this discussion, such as its not OK for a parent to abuse
>their child.

[DaveY] I for one am not willing to agree that society has
any interest in what I do with my kids, or vice versa.  I
would further postulate that your concept of 'abuse their
child' and mine are radically different.  From the non
advocacy position that you've not taken, you seem to indicate
in your more than one post that a child on the back of a moto
is bad.  Is that abuse?  Just answer, yes or no.


>In fact, whether we like it or not society does sometimes
>tell us what is an unacceptable risk for our children, such
>as laws that say it is too risky for a child to ride their
>bicycle without a helmet on, or that its too risky to let a
>child ride in a vehicle without being in a child safety
>seat, or that its too risky to leave a child in a car
>while the parent goes into a store to get groceries.

[DaveY]  You can get "society" to jump on the bandwagon for a
politically popular idea for just about anything without even
a shred of statistically valid evidence.

More children are injured and killed in minivans than on
motorcycles.  We already have safety seats, and that hasn't
helped, so where is the clarion call for banning children in
minivans?  What about those "Assault Vehicles", SUV's ?

>
>If you saw a child in a car not in their child safety seat
>what would you think of that parent?

[DaveY] Maybe the parents should've fed the portly kid a few
more salads and vegetables so the kid would actually fit in
the car seat maybe???

> Perhaps they are not so different form the parent who puts
>their kid on the back of a motorcycle? Which child is
>really in more danger here, the child in the car or on the
>back of the bike?

[DaveY]  The kid(s) in far more danger than either have
parents who think society has an interest in their
upbringing.  Not that I'm advocating one position or the
other.



>Again, thinks statistics and the big picture.

[DaveY]  A child wanting to ride on the moto with mom or dad
is a good thing.  That's a shared experience that they'll
carry for life.  Yup, there's risk involved, just as with any
recreational activity.  Probably more risk, than
say...Monopoly or card games, but you know what?  I think a
lot of us agree that the fun factor is worth the risk.
Dave Yates

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 09:37:37 2004
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 09:34:23 -0400
From: Skip <skip@XXXXXX>
CC: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch



Mike Bartman wrote:

> It's just a form of mass hysteria.  Someone, somewhere, loses a kid to
> something, so everyone panics and goes overboard trying to make sure it can
> never happen again.  They never consider the cost of their "repair".

"think of the Children"

4 words more damaging to freedom were never strung together.


> I never had a bike helmet for a pedal bike until after I was in my 30s.  I
> fell off my bike plenty as a kid too, even in the street.  We used to play
> all sorts of games we'd made up...like "fighter pilot", which was sort of
> like flag football on bikes, and without a ball.  You wrapped a strip of
> cloth around each handlebar, and if you could ride up next to someone, and
> grab their cloth  off, they were "shot down" and had to go to the nearest
> curb (it was in a cul de sack) and fall off onto the grass...and were out
> until there was a victor.  One of the kids from across the street thought
> it would be a good cheat to *tie* the cloth onto his bike...when I yanked
> it, he was turned into me, and we both crashed (given the varying skill
> levels, the close riding proximity required, and the excitement of the
> chase/"kill", crashes were fairly common anyway :-).  If all the kids in
> the area survived stuff like that, without helmets, gloves, knee pads, or
> air bags, why are today's kids so delicate that they won't?  I think they
> are at least as tough as we were, but the parents have been terrified by
> the media and the government, and the kids don't know any better.


I think that some of this has to do with the rapid and easy dissemination of
information.  used to be that if you didn't hear it on the 6 o'clock news or
read it in the sunday paper, you didn't know about it.  now there's the 4:30,
5:00, 6:00, 6:30 news, and a whole host of "news magazine" programs, there's 500
cable and satellite channels to choose from, and there's the internet.  We are
inundated with information.  any jerk with a server is a "reputable source".  we
hear about little johnny and his tragic **and preventable** fall off of his
rollerblades.  we hear about a holdup in a mcdolalds 1000 miles away.  our
community is no longer that which is less than an hour away, it's the whole
freaking planet.  humans haven't learned how to deal with a community that
large.

additionally, we legislate to the lowest common denominator.

and we've got some really low denominators....

--skip, done ranting for the moment.  time for more go-go juice...   or maybe
I've had too much... <jitter...   twitch>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 09:48:28 2004
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 09:48:12 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
From: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
Reply-To: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
To: Skip <skip@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch
Cc: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>



-----Original Message-----
From: Skip <skip@XXXXXX>
Sent: May 12, 2004 9:34 AM
To:
Cc: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch



Mike Bartman wrote:

> It's just a form of mass hysteria.  Someone, somewhere, loses a kid to
> something, so everyone panics and goes overboard trying to make sure it can
> never happen again.  They never consider the cost of their "repair".

"think of the Children"

4 words more damaging to freedom were never strung together.


-----

Absotootly.  That seemed to be the tenor of Julian's co-worker's response to his desire to keep riding, up to and including parenthood.  Some people seem to think injecting children's "advocacy" into a discussion is some sort of trump card or debate-stopper.



Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org
95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour]

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 09:50:15 2004
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 09:47:06 -0400
From: Skip <skip@XXXXXX>
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch

David Cross wrote:
>
> I think some of you are missing the ethical gist of his question which
> is the more interesting one.  An adult understands the risks involved
> and can make that choice. A child probably does not really understand
> the level of risk involved or consequences of an accident and can not
> make an informed decision.
>
> The adult who puts their child on the back of a motorcycle knows or
> should know that they are putting their child in an unnecessarily risky
> situation (their is no _need_ for a child to ride on a street
> motorcycle). Would a "good" parent put their child at risk
> unnecessarily just so the child and parent can have an enjoyable
> experience?
>
> For sake of discussion, Im going to assume that their are other methods
> of basic transportation available as well as safer ways for parents and
> children to have enjoyable experiences together (amusement parks,
> hiking, canoeing, etc.). I would also assume that everyone would agree
> that in general motorcycling is more risky with greater negative
> consequences than other activities such as riding in a car, little
> league, etc.
>
> I'm not advocating a position on this one way or the other, just trying
> to clear up the question.
>
> dave

sorry I caused some topic drift...

my opinion is:

Parents make decisions every day for their children.  Parents are tasked with
investigating, quantifying, and assuming risk for their children.  Different
parents have different levels of risk they are willing to accept for their
children.  I will not let my 9 year old skydive.  Some parents would.  is it
-wrong-?  that's ultimately not for me to decide.  I don't agree with it, but it
is their life.  Some people wont let their kids ride a bicycle.  is *that*
wrong?

it is the parent's discretion that is the issue.  where does it end?    what
would a "reasonable person" think is an acceptable risk?

--skip

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 09:57:49 2004
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 09:54:33 -0400
From: Skip <skip@XXXXXX>
To: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
CC: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch

Paul Wilson wrote:
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Skip <skip@XXXXXX>
> Sent: May 12, 2004 9:34 AM
> To:
> Cc: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
> Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch
>
> Mike Bartman wrote:
>
> > It's just a form of mass hysteria.  Someone, somewhere, loses a kid to
> > something, so everyone panics and goes overboard trying to make sure it can
> > never happen again.  They never consider the cost of their "repair".
>
> "think of the Children"
>
> 4 words more damaging to freedom were never strung together.
>
> -----
>
> Absotootly.  That seemed to be the tenor of Julian's co-worker's response to his desire to keep riding, up to and including parenthood.  Some people seem to think injecting children's "advocacy" into a discussion is some sort of trump card or debate-stopper.

the horrible fact is that it often is a trump.

more children are injured or killed playing highschool football than are injured
or killed by handguns.


now that I've made that statent, I'm off to search for the research to back it
up.  I've found it before...   and not on the NRA site, either ;-)


--skip, bringing guns into the conversation early :~)

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 10:01:47 2004
From: Sunil Doshi <sdoshi@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Guess what...
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 10:01:44 -0400
To: "'DC Cycles'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

First spotting in Del Ray, Alexandria, VA:

http://widepipe.org/images/misc/cicada1.jpg

"Daniel H. Brown" wrote:
>
> They're here...
>
> http://brauhaus.org/~brown/images/cicada.jpg
>
> (taken this morning in my back yard)
>
> --
> Dan Brown
> brown@XXXXXX




sunil

:: proteus / changing your shape for the future
      sunil doshi, senior interface designer
       tel [202.452.6800 x101] [202.452.6866] fax
        http://proteus.com


From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 10:02:18 2004
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 09:59:00 -0400
From: Skip <skip@XXXXXX>
To: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>,
   DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R  - $1800

Mark Kitchell wrote:
>
> Anyone want to loan me $1600???
>
> What should I do next?

keep him going.  asking for pics of the bike with a current newspaper are good,
but asking for pics with him holding a sign while sitting on the bike is
better.  make up a story about how you're buying this for an auction for a
children's charity, and the directors want a picture of the bike with charity's
name.  "Chicken Ranch Children's Charity" or some such.  make this guy work for
it.

and send me a copy of that pic if you get it.

:~)

--skip

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 10:27:19 2004
From: <adamme1@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Low beams during daytime - required?
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 9:16:51 -0400

I just bought a set of dual halogen headlights that
have a low wattage DRL bulb.  Before I go through the
whole idea of trying to have the DRL bulbs on during the
day (with the low beam turned off), does anyone know if it's
a law now that all motorcycles must have their low beams
on during the day?  Or is that just something the motorcycle manufacturers decided to do for safety reasons?

-aki


From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 10:32:35 2004
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 10:32:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Daniel H. Brown" <brown@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Low beams during daytime - required?

On Wed, 12 May 2004 adamme1@XXXXXX wrote:
...
> day (with the low beam turned off), does anyone know if it's
> a law now that all motorcycles must have their low beams
> on during the day?

What jurisdiction?

> Or is that just something the motorcycle manufacturers decided to do for
> safety reasons?

I tend to believe it is a good "increases visibilty at no great cost" sort
of idea.

--
Dan Brown
brown@XXXXXX

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 10:33:12 2004
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 07:33:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: Glenn Dysart <glenn_dysart@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Low beams during daytime - required?
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

I believe it was required by the Department of
Transportation as of 1980 or 81 that all bikes would
have the headlight on at all times.

Glenn

--- adamme1@XXXXXX wrote:
> I just bought a set of dual halogen headlights that
> have a low wattage DRL bulb.  Before I go through
> the
> whole idea of trying to have the DRL bulbs on during
> the
> day (with the low beam turned off), does anyone know
> if it's
> a law now that all motorcycles must have their low
> beams
> on during the day?  Or is that just something the
> motorcycle manufacturers decided to do for safety
> reasons?
>
> -aki
>
>





__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2'
http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 10:37:34 2004
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 10:37:33 -0400
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Low beams during daytime - required?

At 09:16 AM 5/12/2004, adamme1@XXXXXX wrote:
>I just bought a set of dual halogen headlights that
>have a low wattage DRL bulb.  Before I go through the
>whole idea of trying to have the DRL bulbs on during the
>day (with the low beam turned off), does anyone know if it's
>a law now that all motorcycles must have their low beams
>on during the day?

Virginia - no
Maryland - no
DC - unknown
WV - yes

http://www.law4hogs.com/laws/virginia.html



___________________________________________
     Mike Troutman
         http://www.troutman.org/vfr
         1997 Honda VFR 750
            AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/
            NMA http://www.motorists.org

One who knows the enemy and knows himself
will not be in danger in a hundred battles.
One who does not know the enemy but knows himself
will sometimes win, sometimes lose.
One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself
will be in danger in every battle.
  - Sun Tzu

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 11:06:33 2004
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 10:58:26 -0400
To: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Harley Update

At 08:41 PM 5/11/04 -0700, Carl Schelin wrote:
>--- Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX> wrote:

>> Wow.  I guess you got to see one from above for the first time, eh?  :-)
>
>Nope. 30 minutes is still quite a ways away, especially on a fast sport
>bike ;-)
>
>Wait, "from above"?

Joke.  You're in Denver now...the "mile high city".  East of there is low
country, right?  :-)

-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 11:24:22 2004
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 11:24:17 -0400
From: Dave Yates <Dave@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch
To: David Cross <dave@XXXXXX>
Cc: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>


>I think that if you decide that you are going to sexually or
>physically abuse your children, society should have an
>interest in protecting your children from you. But your
>statement would suggest you would not agree
>as this would fall under "any interest".
>
>
>
>> I
>> would further postulate that your concept of 'abuse their
>> child' and mine are radically different.
>
>See above.

[DaveY]  I went back and saw above, but you haven't defined
abuse.  Is wiping the kid's butt after (s)he soils their
diaper abuse?  what if the child misbehaves and gets spanked?
is that abuse?  You're equating abuse with the concept of
carting a kid on the back of a motorcycle.  Society has no
business telling any of us that it is "not ok" for a child to
be a motorcycle passenger.  My opinion goes farther than
that, but it is not germane to this discussion.


> I was simply trying to put together an  argument (think
>philosophical arugemnt, not confrontational arguement) from
>a different prospective.  But if it truly interests you I
>would not constitute it as abuse and would  have no problem
>putting my child on the back of my motorcycle.

I rambled on further:
You can get "society" to jump on the bandwagon for a
politically popular idea for just about anything without even
a shred of statistically valid evidence.
>
>I think that there is sufficient statistical evidence that
>child safety seats do save children's lives.
>
>
>
>>
>> More children are injured and killed in minivans than on
>> motorcycles.
>
>Children spend more time in minivans than in motorcycles.
>Its not the total number of injuries or deaths thats
>important. Its the rate of injuries or death per time/mile
>involved in the activity that is statistically important.

[DaveY]  But think of the children!  If we can save just one
child by banning minivans and SUV's, isn't it worth it?  I'll
gladly turn over my SUV when that law is passed, how could
any reasonable person not ?

>> We already have safety seats, and that hasn't
>> helped,
>
>I think you are mistaken on this point. From were do you get
>this bit of information?

[DaveY]  Children are still dying by the thousand in minivans
despite the so called child safety seats.  We have to do
something.  If you mean to say that they have made a positive
difference, see the link below.  Most assuredly child safety
seats have abated the slaughter of innocent children as
passengers of assault vehicles.


>> Probably more risk, than
>> say...Monopoly or card games, but you know what?  I think a
>> lot of us agree that the fun factor is worth the risk.
>
>If we didn't, we wouldn't be having this discussion in this
>forum. It wouldn't be the "DC-Cycles List" it would be
>the "Safe at Home in My Hermetically Sealed Steel Chamber
>List"

[DaveY]  when you compare the relatively small number of
motorcycle riders to the the whole population, then similarly
compare the number of automobile pilots to the whole
population, which is greater?  Cages.  Now, compare the
number of moto pilots who cart their kids around vs. the
number of cage pilots who cart their kids around.  Which is
the greater percentage?  How many injuries and fatalities for
under 18 year old passengers for both?  The number of under
18 moto passenger injuries will be statistically
insignificant compared to the cage injuries.
Here's the NHTSA child facts for '02
http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/nrd-
30/NCSA/TSF2002/2002chdfacts.pdf

and moto stats:
http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/nrd-
30/NCSA/TSF2002/2002mcyfacts.pdf

while the title and link includes the word "FACT", these
documents are politically motivated, and contain assertions
and conclusions which sometimes do not account for other
factors in addition to the factual data.

One can reasonablly conclude from the child 'facts' document
that a responsible parent should not let their child walk as
a pedestrian, ride a bicycle, or ride in a passenger vehicle
(automobile) before considering a restriction on being a moto
passenger.  Of course, looking at the moto data, one would
also conclude that said child ought to wear full gear
including helmet, and have a pilot who is sober, licensed and
not racing.

Now, I at least have to perpetrate as if I'm working for a
while, as I ponder my next step in eliminating minivans
everywhere ;-)



Dave Yates

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 11:37:19 2004
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 11:37:09 -0400
To: David Cross <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>, "bob@meyerweb" <bob@XXXXXX>
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch
Cc: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>, Julian Halton <julian@XXXXXX>

At 12:53 AM 5/12/04 -0400, David Cross wrote:

>In fact, whether we like it or not society does sometimes tell us what
>is an unacceptable risk for our children, such as laws that say it is
>too risky for a child to ride their bicycle without a helmet on, or
>that its too risky to let a child ride in a vehicle without being in a
>child safety seat, or that its too risky to leave a child in a car
>while the parent goes into a store to get groceries.

Yes, society does all that...but is society justified?  My parents did all
of those things...and me and my brother and my sister survived just fine.
So did all of our friends.  If the risk is so high, why didn't I ever hear
of a kid in any school I went to who was harmed by those things?  That's
hundreds of kids.  The the risks are so great, you'd think that at least
one of them would have been seriously harmed.

I'm sure someone, somewhere, sometime, was harmed by lack of each of those
requirements, but there are *lots* of things that have harmed people that
we pretty much ignore.  People choke on fish bones for instance...should we
outlaw feeding fish to kids?

>If you saw a child in a car not in their child safety seat what would
>you think of that parent?

Are you suggesting that I should think poorly of my parents?

>> Heck, as a kid I had worse injuries on a bicycle than I've had in any
>> activity as an adult.  I broke my foot walking down a flight of

>Sure if you base everything on your own personal experience, however I
>hope you are smatter than that. Life if full of risks . . . of course.
>But certain things tend to be riskier than others.

Certain *people* tend to be riskier than others too.  I've never even
considered sticking a hot cup of coffee in my crotch for instance, or using
my lawnmower as a hedge trimmer, or popping wheelies through an
intersection on a motorcycle (saw that happen Saturday...).  Should we ban
stupid people from having kids?  That might be a better way to go.  Then we
wouldn't need all these rules.  People would be smart enough to evaluate
situations on their own, like my parents did, and like all the other
parents did until the most recent generation.

>Wouldn't you agree
>that riding 100,000 miles on a motorcycle is more risky than those same
>100,000 miles in a car, all else being equal? Again, think large sample
>size and not anecdotal experience.

All else being equal?  I'm not at all sure.  Why would it be more risky?

You are most likely basing your implied assumption on the current
statistics for accident rates between cars and bikes, and the results
thereof.  The current figures include a certain skewing though, based on
the sorts of people who choose to ride and who choose not to, and the
resulting *way* that they ride.  What is the age/experience distribution
for each type of vehicle?  What is the trip type (bar hopping?  Touring?
Day?  Night?)?  We don't really know, so we don't know why the figures are
the way they are...whether it's due to inherent design factors, or to use
factors.  If it's use factors, then all else being equal, the risk would be
about the same.

If an actual collision happens, and it's between a bike and a car, the bike
is going to come off worse of course.  Same with a car and a semi.
However, lots of people go 100,000 miles without being in a serious
accident.  I have, a couple of times (in cars and trucks...have to wait and
see with the bike).  Other people get into serious accidents multiple times
in the same distance.  We don't know if it's their fault that this happens,
or due to other factors (sports car? Mini-Van?  Age?  Area?  Weather?).
All we really know are the numbers that are tracked, and the numbers don't
track all the factors.  Maybe not even the most important ones.

>> Hmm, people get killed and injured in amusement parks, and people
>> drown every year in canoing accidents.  So are those risks
>> "necessary?"  Maybe it's not a good idea to take my boys to Kings
>> Dominion.  It would be much safer to keep them indoors watching TV and
>> playing video games, I guess.
>
>Again, thinks statistics and the big picture. How many millions of
>people go to amusements parks and how many die there?  Compare those
>figures to motorcycling and I would wager you see a large difference in
>the level of risk involved (I have no proof, its just a guess I admit).

Here you seem to be weighing risk vs. benefit.  That's good.  The question
then becomes whether there's enough benefit to outweigh the increased risk
(assuming that it is riskier, which does seem likely to some extent).
That's a judgement call that will vary from kid to kid...and who is likely
to know this better than the parent?  Some bureaucrat or passerby?

>   In my comments I said "safer" ways of enjoyment.  Not the complete
>elimination of all risk which you would agree is impossible.
>
>Again, I am not personally advocating any position on this subject
>(although it may appear that way).

You're being devil's advocate.  To some extent, so am I.

-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 11:45:49 2004
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 11:43:37 -0400
To: Skip <skip@XXXXXX>, Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch
Cc: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

At 09:54 AM 5/12/04 -0400, Skip wrote:

>--skip, bringing guns into the conversation early :~)

Hitler!  Hitler!  Hitler!

(is it dead yet?? :-)


-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 12:41:21 2004
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 09:41:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Low beams during daytime - required?
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX


--- "Daniel H. Brown" <brown@XXXXXX> wrote:
> On Wed, 12 May 2004 adamme1@XXXXXX wrote:
> ...
> > day (with the low beam turned off), does anyone know if it's
> > a law now that all motorcycles must have their low beams
> > on during the day?
>
> What jurisdiction?
>
> > Or is that just something the motorcycle manufacturers decided to do
> for
> > safety reasons?
>
> I tend to believe it is a good "increases visibilty at no great cost"
> sort
> of idea.

Well, in the 70's when it became law (I remember my 250 had an on/off
switch but my 360 only had the high beam switch), it meant you were the
only vehicle out in the day time with your head lights on. If your lights
were on in your car, people would flash their lights at you or flip them
on and off to tell you.

Now, with everyone jumping on the visibility bandwagon, you need to run
with high beams, running lights, and a rotating light on your helmet.

It's still a good thing, but I think our visibility has been reduced.
>
> --
> Dan Brown
> brown@XXXXXX

Carl


=====
02 Harley FXSTI
95 Suzuki GSXR 750W
76 Honda Chopper (in progress)




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2'
http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 12:44:12 2004
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 09:44:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Harley Update
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX


--- Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX> wrote:
> At 08:41 PM 5/11/04 -0700, Carl Schelin wrote:
> >--- Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX> wrote:
>
> >> Wow.  I guess you got to see one from above for the first time, eh?
> :-)
> >
> >Nope. 30 minutes is still quite a ways away, especially on a fast sport
> >bike ;-)
> >
> >Wait, "from above"?
>
> Joke.  You're in Denver now...the "mile high city".  East of there is
> low
> country, right?  :-)

Yea, when I typed it is when I "got it" :-)  But, it's not a sudden leap a
mile into the air. Denver isn't on a butte. It's gradual. Rita thought
Kansas was flat until we drove a heavily loaded moving truck while towing
a trailer with two motorcycles. In fact, western Kansas and eastern
Colorado is pretty flat.

>
> -- Mike B.

Carl


=====
02 Harley FXSTI
95 Suzuki GSXR 750W
76 Honda Chopper (in progress)




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2'
http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 13:28:33 2004
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 13:28:36 -0400
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Subject: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG

Apparently the real world MPG ratings for the Toyota and Honda hybrids
place them squarely equal or lower than most motorcycle MPG.  I filled up
today and had 38MPG on the VFR this week.

http://www.wired.com/news/autotech/0,2554,63413,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_1


___________________________________________
     Mike Troutman
         http://www.troutman.org/vfr
         1997 Honda VFR 750
            AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/
            NMA http://www.motorists.org

One who knows the enemy and knows himself
will not be in danger in a hundred battles.
One who does not know the enemy but knows himself
will sometimes win, sometimes lose.
One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself
will be in danger in every battle.
  - Sun Tzu

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 13:42:21 2004
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 13:42:07 -0400
From: Brian Roach <roach@XXXXXX>
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch

David Cross wrote:

> I think some of you are missing the ethical gist of his question which
> is the more interesting one.  An adult understands the risks involved
> and can make that choice. A child probably does not really understand
> the level of risk involved or consequences of an accident and can not
> make an informed decision.

Actually ... that's exactly the point I was trying to make. And your
"non-position" was the one I was fishing for :)

Who's raising kids - Parents, or "society"?
The PARENT makes choices for their child. That's their job.
Society should stop worrying so much about what everyone else is doing.

Is letting a young kid ride on a motorcycle an "unnecessary risk"?
Absolutely. So's letting them climb trees, have tree-houses, ride bikes,
play sports, go camping, etc, etc, etc. None of these things are
"necessary" and put the child in a position where they could be, and
often are, injured.

Or maybe, just maybe, they ARE necessary ... because a child devoid of
real life experiences is a pretty screwed up kid.

The current "think of the children" hysteria is ridiculous in my humble
opinion. I whole heartedly agree with the other folks on the list who
have brought up so many points about how none of us, or anyone we knew,
as children were maimed, disfigured, or killed by any of the so called
"risks" society now deems "unnecessary" for our children.

If I ever had a kid, he'd be on the bike as soon as I felt he was ready
... probably between my legs so he could hold onto the bars :)

- Roach

--
http://www.speedwerks.com
The one-stop shop for all your motorcycling needs!
(302) 672 - 7223

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 14:03:07 2004
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 11:03:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX


--- Troutman <mike@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Apparently the real world MPG ratings for the Toyota and Honda hybrids
> place them squarely equal or lower than most motorcycle MPG.  I filled
> up
> today and had 38MPG on the VFR this week.
>
> http://www.wired.com/news/autotech/0,2554,63413,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_1
>

Yea, I made a comment to Dr. Gridlock that the Hybrid cars _should_ be in
rush hour traffic and not HOV. That's where they get the best mileage and
you'd see the highest reduction in emissions. The article seems to say the
same thing:

"Toyota environmental engineer Dave Hermance says the EPA city test
includes 19 stops of at least a few seconds, which take up a "non-trivial"
amount of the test and could cause hybrid cars to rate even higher than
conventional cars because of their reliance on electric motors."

I've seen Hybrid folks take multiple people in their cars in HOV and
that's the best use. Because once they get into DC (or other slow
traffic), they become the vehicle they're advertised as. OV was just a
carrot to get people in to the vehicles since they cost a bit more than a
regular car.

If you're a lead-foot, then a Hybrid won't get the advertised mileage,
same with a motorcycle. The difference between the two is that as long as
the Hybrid is running at speeds past 25MPH, it's not likely that they will
get better mileage than a motorcycle. My Harley got something like 46MPG
before I added the stage one kit. Now it gets 42MPG. The difference was
just enough to force me to fill up every other day. Before the kit, there
were times that, if I was a little better with the wrist, I could ride
three days on a tank of gas.

>
> ___________________________________________
>      Mike Troutman

Carl

=====
02 Harley FXSTI
95 Suzuki GSXR 750W
76 Honda Chopper (in progress)




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2'
http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 14:07:17 2004
Subject: RE: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:07:08 -0400
From: "Verde, Robert" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>
To: "Troutman" <mike@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

More of a commentary on the sad state of government data modeling as a politically-laden substitute for "real science."  Rather appalling when you consider what the discrepancy in these actual versus advertised rates imply when looking at the stats for vehicles like SUVs and light trucks.  (Bleahh.)  Really appalling if these "estimated" figures are used to quantify fuel consumption projections, although the government probably uses actual figures for these kind of projections.  (Double bleahh...)

I think it all depends on expectations.  The Edmunds' site tested the Toyota Prius, and average mileage was 46 MPG, nothing to sneeze at for a four door sedan.  The article in Wired reflects an owners disappointment in the actual gas mileage for a Honda Civic, advertised to get 47/48 MPG, and actually returning 31.8, or only 67% of the advertised mileage.  The Prius hybrid is advertised to get 55-60 MPG, and actually returns 46, so that works out to 80% of the advertised.

All that aside, I was a bit puzzled how Edmunds' reviewers could get 46 MPG out of the Prius and Consumer Reports (cited in the Wired article) were only able to wring 35 MPG out of it; it would be nice to see the test data to see exactly which vehicles were being compared.

Motorcycles do seem to have the edge here, but again, we've seen some mileage figures for "spirited riding" that don't come anywhere near what the manufacturers advertise!  I tend to go by what other riders have said are the real world figures, it makes me feel a little better when my '83 Interceptor gets the "average" 35 MPG, although I still find myself looking at the Prius hatchback with some envy...  ;-)

Robert


-----Original Message-----
From: Troutman [mailto:mike@XXXXXX]
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 1:29 PM
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG


Apparently the real world MPG ratings for the Toyota and Honda hybrids
place them squarely equal or lower than most motorcycle MPG.  I filled up
today and had 38MPG on the VFR this week.

http://www.wired.com/news/autotech/0,2554,63413,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_1


From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 14:31:48 2004
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:32:14 -0400
To: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG

At 01:28 PM 5/12/04 -0400, Troutman wrote:
>Apparently the real world MPG ratings for the Toyota and Honda hybrids
>place them squarely equal or lower than most motorcycle MPG.  I filled up
>today and had 38MPG on the VFR this week.

I've been checking my H-D mileage since the gas gauge design sucks rocks
and doesn't work (of course, it's also the first bike I've had that *had* a
gas gauge, so I'm not missing it much :-).  I was getting 39.5 with all the
slow riding, in traffic and parking lot stuff I was doing, and 45-48 when
it was mostly highway (up 95 to Delaware trip).  Since I've put the Stage 1
air cleaner on and gotten it a bit more HP (just a bit...), it's dropped
slightly, to about 36 mpg for the slow traffic stuff, and 42 for the
highway with some traffic and back roads (St. Mary's county trip last
weekend).

-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 14:48:22 2004
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:48:12 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
From: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
Reply-To: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
To: "Verde,Robert" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>, Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>,
   dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG



-----Original Message-----
From: "Verde, Robert" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>

Motorcycles do seem to have the edge here, but again, we've seen some mileage figures for "spirited riding" that don't come anywhere near what the manufacturers advertise!  I tend to go by what other riders have said are the real world figures, it makes me feel a little better when my '83 Interceptor gets the "average" 35 MPG, although I still find myself looking at the Prius hatchback with some envy...  ;-)

Robert


-----

Hmmm, FWIW, and it ain't worth much, my KLR650 gets just a hair under 50 mpg.  Hit reserve at 255 miles on Sat.  Reserve is at the 5-gallon mark.  Those are Kawi miles, btw, usual odo descrepancies apply with respect to statute miles.  I get plenty of gpg (grins per gallon) too.  YMMV in the grins department piloting one of those green-weenie tin cans.  ;-)  A modernized, fuel-injected KLR mill could prolly turn in substantially better numbers.

Personally I'm waiting on the civilian version of the mil-spec diesel KLR, which gets outstanding mileage and has amazing range.

VFR gets ~40-42 mpg if I'm not too frisky with the Go Handle.  Keeping your carbureted bikes in a good state of tune really helps with fuel economy.




Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org
95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour]

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 14:49:31 2004
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:51:01 -0400
To: "Verde, Robert" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>, "Troutman" <mike@XXXXXX>,
   <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG

At 02:07 PM 5/12/04 -0400, Verde, Robert wrote:
>gets the "average" 35 MPG, although I still find myself looking at the Prius
>hatchback with some envy...  ;-)

I don't even bother paying attention to these things.  They are all
designed for midgets, not full-sized adults.  If you are near or below
average male height, they are probably an option for you.  If not, they
will be anything from uncomfortable and perhaps long-term damaging to
totally impossible to drive, depending on how much over average male height
you are.  The same is true of almost *all* cars and light trucks these days.

I have a '98 Jeep Grand Cherokee because it was the smallest vehicle I
could actually fit in that had any cargo capability.  In '99 they lowered
the roof line and I can no longer fit into the current models, so this is
the last one I'll own.  The same thing happened with my prior vehicle, a
'92 Pathfinder.  When I went to get a new one, I found that they'd widened
the center console at least an inch, and taken away my right shin room, so
I could no longer reach the gas pedal...no more Nissan's either.  Toyota
4-Runner?  Nope...parking brake is where the right shin needs to go.
Mitsubishi Monterro?  Great room, particularly for the head, and it would
have been a good choice for me...if some moron hadn't decided to drop the
speakers down out the bottom of the dash and take away the shin room.
Toyota's pickups?  No head room, no leg room, no way to move the seat back
any farther.  Honda's SUV?  Smaller than the Pathfinder, no way to fit into
it.

I'm guessing my next vehicle, whenever the Jeep wears out (which will take
a while given how much I drive it...just over 45,000 miles on it since
October of '97), is likely to be a restored something-or-other from the
50s, 60s or 70s...back before the CAFE standards started shrinking cars
down to Munchkin size vehicles.  Maybe a restored pickup with a nice big
crate motor in it...  :-)

At least bikes have plenty of head room and shoulder room, if not as much
leg room as I might like...


-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 14:54:34 2004
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:54:18 -0400
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG

At 02:51 PM 5/12/2004, Mike Bartman wrote:
>I don't even bother paying attention to these things.  They are all
>designed for midgets, not full-sized adults.  If you are near or below
>average male height, they are probably an option for you.  If not, they
>will be anything from uncomfortable and perhaps long-term damaging to
>totally impossible to drive, depending on how much over average male height
>you are.  The same is true of almost *all* cars and light trucks these days.

True - I am 6'1" and our Accord (used for ferrying dogs to the vet and
fetching groceries) barely fits me.  I have the driver's seat at full stop,
and my legs are still bent.  The F150 does not have this problem.

I managed to whack my shin with an axe this weekend, and I felt some
trepidation riding in today riding on the balls of my feet.  It hurt a good
deal by the time I got to work (~45mins) and will hopefully not be any
worse for the hour ride home.

Note to self - swing gently and avoid bony regions.



___________________________________________
     Mike Troutman
         http://www.troutman.org/vfr
         1997 Honda VFR 750
            AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/
            NMA http://www.motorists.org

One who knows the enemy and knows himself
will not be in danger in a hundred battles.
One who does not know the enemy but knows himself
will sometimes win, sometimes lose.
One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself
will be in danger in every battle.
  - Sun Tzu

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 15:00:24 2004
Subject: RE: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG - axes
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 15:00:13 -0400
From: "Verde, Robert" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Count yourself lucky it was just an axe...  My little brother has a notch in his shin caused by a chainsaw kicking back on an undercut.  All part of the perils of growing up in the country, and the necessity of feeding the wood stove!

(I've got a scar at my hairline where my sister tagged me with a hatchet, but that's another story.  Wasn't even a very big hatchet...  ;-> )

Robert


-----Original Message-----
From: Troutman [mailto:mike@XXXXXX]
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 2:54 PM
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG


At 02:51 PM 5/12/2004, Mike Bartman wrote:
>I don't even bother paying attention to these things.  They are all
>designed for midgets, not full-sized adults.  If you are near or below
>average male height, they are probably an option for you.  If not, they
>will be anything from uncomfortable and perhaps long-term damaging to
>totally impossible to drive, depending on how much over average male height
>you are.  The same is true of almost *all* cars and light trucks these days.

True - I am 6'1" and our Accord (used for ferrying dogs to the vet and
fetching groceries) barely fits me.  I have the driver's seat at full stop,
and my legs are still bent.  The F150 does not have this problem.

I managed to whack my shin with an axe this weekend, and I felt some
trepidation riding in today riding on the balls of my feet.  It hurt a good
deal by the time I got to work (~45mins) and will hopefully not be any
worse for the hour ride home.

Note to self - swing gently and avoid bony regions.


From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 15:03:26 2004
From: Bob Meyer <rmeyer9@XXXXXX>
Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX
To: "Verde, Robert" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>, "Troutman" <mike@XXXXXX>,
   <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: RE: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 15:03:20 -0400


>
> From: "Verde, Robert" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>

> All that aside, I was a bit puzzled how Edmunds' reviewers could get 46 MPG out of the Prius and Consumer Reports (cited in the Wired article) were only able to wring 35 MPG out of it; it would be nice to see the test data to see exactly which vehicles were being compared.
>

The difference in their test routes, speeds, how hard they accelerate, etc.  The slower the speed, the gentler the acceleration, the more time spent at "idle," the better a hybrid is going to do.

Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157
'01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa"
'92 ST1100, "red STag"
'02 919, "still looking for a name"

A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers....

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 15:04:03 2004
From: "Shigeru Honda" <shonda3@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 15:03:44 -0400

a friend of mine has Honda Insight and it constantly gets like 60mpg.

I guess you need combination of weight, friction & aerodynamic to get good
mpg.
bikes got advantage on weight & friction but not too good on aerodynamic (no
roof).
If bikes get better aerodynamic then it should get better mpg.
regular cars have generally good aerodynamic but sucks on weight & friction.
Looks like Honda Insight is good on all these 3 factors, but fat dude won't
get any good mpg?

---------------------
Shigeru Honda
98 SuperHawk (Street)
99 750 SS (Track #881)
02 MZ Skorpion Tour (Commuter)
91 CR80 (new toy)


----- Original Message -----
From: "Troutman" <mike@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 1:28 PM
Subject: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG


> Apparently the real world MPG ratings for the Toyota and Honda hybrids
> place them squarely equal or lower than most motorcycle MPG.  I filled up
> today and had 38MPG on the VFR this week.
>
> http://www.wired.com/news/autotech/0,2554,63413,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_1
>
>
> ___________________________________________
>      Mike Troutman
>          http://www.troutman.org/vfr
>          1997 Honda VFR 750
>             AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/
>             NMA http://www.motorists.org
>
> One who knows the enemy and knows himself
> will not be in danger in a hundred battles.
> One who does not know the enemy but knows himself
> will sometimes win, sometimes lose.
> One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself
> will be in danger in every battle.
>   - Sun Tzu
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 15:06:12 2004
Subject: RE: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 15:06:01 -0400
From: "Verde, Robert" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

That's okay, they are probably just engineering for the future;

"Researchers have made a startling discovery: Americans are shrinking. A nation once famed for its strapping, well-nourished youth is gradually diminishing in physical stature.  By contrast, the heights of men and women from Europe are increasing inexorably. The average Dutchman, whose country produces the Continent's loftiest men, is now more than six feet tall - almost two inches above his American counterpart. And he is still growing. Across the Netherlands hotel owners are lengthening beds and raising door mantles to stop the nation's tall youth suffering from irreparable anatomical damage."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1185457,00.html

;-)

Robert



-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Bartman [mailto:omni@XXXXXX]
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 2:51 PM
To: Verde, Robert; Troutman; dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG


At 02:07 PM 5/12/04 -0400, Verde, Robert wrote:
>gets the "average" 35 MPG, although I still find myself looking at the Prius
>hatchback with some envy...  ;-)

I don't even bother paying attention to these things.  They are all
designed for midgets, not full-sized adults.  If you are near or below
average male height, they are probably an option for you.  If not, they
will be anything from uncomfortable and perhaps long-term damaging to
totally impossible to drive, depending on how much over average male height
you are.  The same is true of almost *all* cars and light trucks these days.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 15:18:31 2004
Subject: RE: RE: Hybrid MPG ratings
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 15:18:21 -0400
From: "Verde, Robert" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>
To: <rmeyer9@XXXXXX>, "Troutman" <mike@XXXXXX>,
   <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

I figured that contributed to the difference between the advertised and actual MPG ratings, but not necessarily the tested ratings.  A hybrid vehicle, from what I've read, does better in stop and go traffic, because it optimizes the use of the electric engine, and, in the case of the Prius, regenerative braking systems.  In steady freeway driving, the gas engine comes into play more often (continously?) and the electric motor benefits are partially cancelled out.

However, taking these factors into account, the Prius should still be able to do stoplight-to-stoplight runs with the best of them, and get decent mileage.  What I was wondering was how one set of reviewers was able to drop the advertised rating by almost fifty percent, while another set got a respectable 80% of advertised.  Since these were both averages, the difference over a tank or two should tend to even out.  It might be that the Consumer Reports team tested an older model of the Prius, the Edmunds review I linked to was for the 2004 model.

All that aside, I'd still be more likely to get a DL1000 (or two) before spending the dough on a similar commuter vehicle with four wheels.  (Or, the HMMVs of the bike world, the Aprilia CapoNord Rally Raid/BMW GS1200...)  If Daimler-Chrysler sold the Smart cars here in the US I might be tempted, but the first model they are test marketing here is the Smart For-four, still too much cage for me!

Robert


-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Meyer [mailto:rmeyer9@XXXXXX]
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 3:03 PM
To: Verde, Robert; Troutman; dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: RE: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG



>
> From: "Verde, Robert" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>

> All that aside, I was a bit puzzled how Edmunds' reviewers could get 46 MPG out of the Prius and Consumer Reports (cited in the Wired article) were only able to wring 35 MPG out of it; it would be nice to see the test data to see exactly which vehicles were being compared.
>

The difference in their test routes, speeds, how hard they accelerate, etc.  The slower the speed, the gentler the acceleration, the more time spent at "idle," the better a hybrid is going to do.

Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157
'01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa"
'92 ST1100, "red STag"
'02 919, "still looking for a name"

A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers....


From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 15:24:35 2004
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 15:25:42 -0400
To: "Verde, Robert" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG

At 03:06 PM 5/12/04 -0400, Verde, Robert wrote:
>That's okay, they are probably just engineering for the future;
>
>"Researchers have made a startling discovery: Americans are shrinking. A
nation once famed for its strapping, well-nourished youth is gradually
diminishing in physical stature.  By contrast, the heights of men and women

And you believe the Guardian???  What's next, the Enquirer?

I think they failed to take into account immigration.  We've gotten *lots*
of folks from south of the border, Vietnam and other places not really
known for overly tall people.  I'm sure that's dragging the average down
more than Big Macs are.  Take a look at the teens at the local mall
sometime...there are *lots* of them who are well over 6' tall...even the
girls.  Far more than when I was a kid.

Maybe I should start a business custom-building bikes for tall people?
Only need to alter the frame dimensions...the rest of the stuff can be out
of the big books.

If the fast food craze keeps up, a sideline for the obese might be
worthwhile.  Dual sidecars for the butt cheeks...

Big & Tall Bikeworks maybe?  :-)


-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 15:57:43 2004
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 15:57:41 -0400
From: "Chris Norloff" <cnorloff@XXXXXX>
Reply-To: <cnorloff@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG

My wife's Prius averages 40-44mpg (better in the warmer weather). Still better than a regular car - but yes, not better than a typical bike.

Chris Norloff

---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Date:  Wed, 12 May 2004 13:28:36 -0400

>Apparently the real world MPG ratings for the Toyota and Honda hybrids
>place them squarely equal or lower than most motorcycle MPG.  I filled up
>today and had 38MPG on the VFR this week.
>
>http://www.wired.com/news/autotech/0,2554,63413,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_1
>
>
>___________________________________________
>     Mike Troutman
>         http://www.troutman.org/vfr
>         1997 Honda VFR 750
>            AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/
>            NMA http://www.motorists.org
>
>One who knows the enemy and knows himself
>will not be in danger in a hundred battles.
>One who does not know the enemy but knows himself
>will sometimes win, sometimes lose.
>One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself
>will be in danger in every battle.
>  - Sun Tzu
>
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 16:01:07 2004
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 16:01:04 -0400
From: "Chris Norloff" <cnorloff@XXXXXX>
Reply-To: <cnorloff@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG

Our 2003 Prius has a lot of room inside. At 6 ft. 2 in. and 280 lb. I appreciate that. It's comfortable for me; it has more interior cabin room than our previous 1995 Toyota Corolla Wagon, less than my 1993 Toyota Camry Wagon.

Chris Norloff

---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Date:  Wed, 12 May 2004 14:51:01 -0400

>At 02:07 PM 5/12/04 -0400, Verde, Robert wrote:
>>gets the "average" 35 MPG, although I still find myself looking at the Prius
>>hatchback with some envy...  ;-)
>
>I don't even bother paying attention to these things.  They are all
>designed for midgets, not full-sized adults.  If you are near or below
>average male height, they are probably an option for you.  If not, they
>will be anything from uncomfortable and perhaps long-term damaging to
>totally impossible to drive, depending on how much over average male height
>you are.  The same is true of almost *all* cars and light trucks these days.
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 16:04:15 2004
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 16:04:13 -0400
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Subject: More on headlights on bikes in VA

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+46.2-912

Skip called me on it, so I did a search.  Technically, you can ride without
a headlight in VA, but under very specific circumstances :


)B§ 46.2-912. Operating motorcycle without headlight, horn or rearview mirror.

A. Notwithstanding any other provision of law, motorcycles may be operated
without headlights, horns, or rearview mirrors on public highways if all
the following conditions are met:

1. The motorcycles are designed for use in trail riding and endurance runs;

2. The motorcycles are being driven by duly licensed persons;

3. The motorcycles are being operated between sunrise and sunset; and

4. The motorcycles are being operated during endurance runs sanctioned by
the American Motorcycle Association.

B. No person shall operate motorcycles without such equipment on the public
highways of the Commonwealth other than at the times and under the
circumstances set forth in this section.
(1970, c. 300, )B§ 46.1-172.01; 1978, c. 605; 1989, c. 727.)



___________________________________________
     Mike Troutman
         http://www.troutman.org/vfr
         1997 Honda VFR 750
            AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/
            NMA http://www.motorists.org

One who knows the enemy and knows himself
will not be in danger in a hundred battles.
One who does not know the enemy but knows himself
will sometimes win, sometimes lose.
One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself
will be in danger in every battle.
  - Sun Tzu


From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 16:05:20 2004
Subject: RE: You bike does better than an averge height person in a hybrid...  (Way OT)
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 16:05:11 -0400
From: "Verde, Robert" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>
To: "Mike Bartman" <omni@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

How about The New Yorker?

"The obvious answer would seem to be immigration. The more Mexicans and Chinese there are in the United States, the shorter the American population becomes. But the height statistics that Komlos cites include only native-born Americans who speak English at home, and he is careful to screen out people of Asian and Hispanic descent. In any case, according to Richard Steckel, who has also analyzed American heights, the United States takes in too few immigrants to account for the disparity with Northern Europe."

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040405fa_fact

Doesn't sound too promising for the Big and Tall Bike Company...  Not sure what the prospects are for the clothing retailer, either, the ones in Portland (not a place noted for skinny people, BTW) were closing in most of the local malls.  Googling for retail establishments came up with a handful, far more were online-only.

I suspect that Amurricans don't like to think of themselves as, er, larger than average, except in a couple of specific areas.  Clothing manufacturers have quietly pandered to this unease, flattering buyers with clothing size labels that bear little resemblance to actual measurements.  "Why, I wear the same size that I wore in college!"  Yeah, and that means exactly squat.

Robert


-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Bartman [mailto:omni@XXXXXX]
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 3:26 PM
To: Verde, Robert; dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG


At 03:06 PM 5/12/04 -0400, Verde, Robert wrote:
>That's okay, they are probably just engineering for the future;
>
>"Researchers have made a startling discovery: Americans are shrinking. A
nation once famed for its strapping, well-nourished youth is gradually
diminishing in physical stature.  By contrast, the heights of men and women

And you believe the Guardian???  What's next, the Enquirer?

I think they failed to take into account immigration.  We've gotten *lots*
of folks from south of the border, Vietnam and other places not really
known for overly tall people.  I'm sure that's dragging the average down
more than Big Macs are.  Take a look at the teens at the local mall
sometime...there are *lots* of them who are well over 6' tall...even the
girls.  Far more than when I was a kid.

Maybe I should start a business custom-building bikes for tall people?
Only need to alter the frame dimensions...the rest of the stuff can be out
of the big books.

If the fast food craze keeps up, a sideline for the obese might be
worthwhile.  Dual sidecars for the butt cheeks...

Big & Tall Bikeworks maybe?  :-)


-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 16:16:25 2004
Subject: RE: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 16:16:16 -0400
From: "Verde, Robert" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

My only real point in the earlier interchange was that it's not exactly a valid comparison, as we're not talking bikes that can carry four people...  Ignoring the issue of how many vehicles on the road today are single-driver vehicles, if you compare the number of motorcycles that would be needed to carry four people (plus luggage) then each bike would have to get 80+ MPG to compare to the Prius.

(As an aside, it might be interesting to compare driver/vehicle percentages for larger SUVs (purchase justified by necessity to carry multiple passengers) versus compact cars.  I would expect that there are far more people per vehicle for the smaller cheaper vehicles, than in the larger, more expensive vehicles.  Just a guess...  )

Not to mention that many of the new hybrids are ULEVs and partial ZLEVs, and most motorycles on the road today don't have to meet any emissions standards.  There are some moto manufacturers implementing low-emissions bikes, but this is largely due to the tougher European market forcing these changes.

Robert


-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Norloff [mailto:cnorloff@XXXXXX]
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 4:01 PM
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG


Our 2003 Prius has a lot of room inside. At 6 ft. 2 in. and 280 lb. I appreciate that. It's comfortable for me; it has more interior cabin room than our previous 1995 Toyota Corolla Wagon, less than my 1993 Toyota Camry Wagon.

Chris Norloff

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 16:56:39 2004
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 16:58:14 -0400
To: <cnorloff@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG

I'm 6'6", 280 lbs.  The extra 4" makes a huge difference.  My ex-wife had a
1990 Camry sedan.  I could drive it, but only if I tipped my head to one
side a bit (that was with the seat all the way back, and leaning way
back...far enough that the shoulder belt wasn't positioned
properly...several inches in front of my shoulder)...if the Prius is more
cramped than that, it's impossible for me.

For reference, my Grand Cherokee has less than an inch of head room, but
otherwise isn't bad.  The current Grand Cherokees are too low to drive.  No
other Jeep is even in the running, due both to head room and leg room.
Saabs are a joke...no way in hell.  I can barely fit in the front of one as
a passenger...no way I could drive one.  I haven't bothered to check on
most other cars recently...all the ones I looked at shrank below the
useable limit over 10 years ago, though it's possible that Cadilac or Buick
might have one of their larger ones with enough room to fit into.  I'd
rather have a full-size pickup though.  More useful, cheaper and no worse
on gas guzzling.

Almost all the cars from the 50s, 60s and 70s fit just fine.  It's the CAFE
standards that are mandating tinier and tinier cars.  If they keep it up,
eventually *everyone* will have to ride a bike...or restore a "classic".

-- Mike B.

At 04:01 PM 5/12/04 -0400, Chris Norloff wrote:
>Our 2003 Prius has a lot of room inside. At 6 ft. 2 in. and 280 lb. I
appreciate that. It's comfortable for me; it has more interior cabin room
than our previous 1995 Toyota Corolla Wagon, less than my 1993 Toyota Camry
Wagon.
>
>Chris Norloff
>
>---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
>From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
>Date:  Wed, 12 May 2004 14:51:01 -0400
>
>>At 02:07 PM 5/12/04 -0400, Verde, Robert wrote:
>>>gets the "average" 35 MPG, although I still find myself looking at the
Prius
>>>hatchback with some envy...  ;-)
>>
>>I don't even bother paying attention to these things.  They are all
>>designed for midgets, not full-sized adults.  If you are near or below
>>average male height, they are probably an option for you.  If not, they
>>will be anything from uncomfortable and perhaps long-term damaging to
>>totally impossible to drive, depending on how much over average male height
>>you are.  The same is true of almost *all* cars and light trucks these
days.
>>
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 16:58:44 2004
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 12:05:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: The Motorcycle Diaries
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

This film is a favorite at Cannes.  Great book as is
the modern follow up 'Chasing Che'

Trailer:  http://snipurl.com/6c4o




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2'
http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 17:08:55 2004
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 17:10:28 -0400
To: "Verde, Robert" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG

At 04:16 PM 5/12/04 -0400, Verde, Robert wrote:

>(As an aside, it might be interesting to compare driver/vehicle
percentages for larger SUVs (purchase justified by necessity to carry
multiple passengers)

Who says that's the "justification" (like one is actually needed in a free
country...)?

My "justification" is that I can fit into it, unlike almost all cars
(certainly all compact cars).  I can also carry the things I sometimes need
to carry with it, unlike with a car, compact or otherwise.  The local
hospital wasn't at all unhappy that I chose a vehicle that's hated by the
average unthinking, PC liberal when we had that big snowstorm last
year...they were begging for SUV and other 4WD owners to come help get
their compact car driving employees to and from work.  I also probably burn
less gas in it than the average compact car owner, due to the low annual
mileage I put on it (working from home will do that).

Sick of idiot PC liberals and their insulting bigotry.


-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 17:24:49 2004
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:24:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lurking <lurking444@XXXXXX>
Subject: insurance loss rates for motorcycles?
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

Hello again,

Your friendly neighborhood lurker here again.  I've been thinking about purchasing a new
motorcycle and I called around to 3 insurance companies to get rate quotes on some of the
bikes I'm considering.  The premiums were awfully high (most over $3,000 per year) for full
coverage.  I don't have a perfect record, but it's not terrible either.  I'm 25 and have
one ticket, one auto collision claim, and one comprehensive auto claim in the past 3 years.
 Anyway, I'm not going to ask about how to get a lower rate because I know by this time
next year the two insurance claims will drop off my "3 year record" and the rates will be
much more reasonable (which is why I'm probably going to wait until this winter to buy my
new bike).

What I'm wondering is if anyone knows a source for the "multiplier" that insurance
companies use for each individual bike model.  I could use this to see which motorcycle
model will have the best and worst effect on insurance premiums and that would aid my
decision process.  I spent hours on the phone with the insurance companies to get quotes
for only a select few bikes.  If I had the loss rate for each model it would likely
translate into the effect that the model of motorcycle has on one's insurance premium.
This would be very useful information for consumers, although I'm sure the manufacters of
the "high risk" bikes would do their darndest to keep a lid on such risk data (at least for
consumers).

I'm not buying a super-sport even.  I'm looking a some naked sportbikes (or sport touring),
such as the Honda 919, Yamaha FZ1/FZ6, and Aprilia Tuono.  It seems that insurance
companies rate most sport bikes the same, whether they are true supersports (R1, GSX1000,
Ninja 9R) or more relaxed bikes like the ones I'm considering (not that the ones I'm
considering aren't really powerful and fast).  It really is interesting, along with
frustrating, to learn more about how insurance companies rate individuals and their
vehicles.

-Kipp.

=====
"If we cannot live so as to be happy, let us least live so as to deserve it." - Immanuel Hermann Fichte (1797-1879)




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2'
http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 17:27:12 2004
Subject: RE: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 17:27:01 -0400
From: "Verde, Robert" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

I like this one: http://www.unixpapa.com/cars.html  ;-)

Even by these humourous standards, Mike, you would qualify, so don't worry, no one is attacking your desire to drive a Jeep.  I was referring to the reasons people give in response to the question; "Why did you decide to buy [Product x]?" as "justification.  If you prefer another word with equivalent connotation and denotation, please suggest one.

I recommend the following for your reading enjoyment;
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1586481231/p11-20/ref%3Dnosim/103-7944493-7283841
Or; http://www.drivers.com/article/621/

But, I'll take your comments in the politest possible interpretation, and withdraw the [SUV] portion of my previous side-bar question, replacing it with [mini-van] as an equivalent people-carrier.  Better now?  I think the potential survey would still make interesting reading.  ;-]

Robert




-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Bartman [mailto:omni@XXXXXX]
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 5:10 PM
To: Verde, Robert; dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG


At 04:16 PM 5/12/04 -0400, Verde, Robert wrote:

>(As an aside, it might be interesting to compare driver/vehicle
percentages for larger SUVs (purchase justified by necessity to carry
multiple passengers)

Who says that's the "justification" (like one is actually needed in a free
country...)?
<snip>
Sick of idiot PC liberals and their insulting bigotry.
<Hmmm...>


-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 17:38:35 2004
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:38:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lurking <lurking444@XXXXXX>
Subject: FS: 1986 Yamaha YX600 Radian - 600cc "standard" - 12,000 mi. - $1600
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

I bought this bike last year in early May. It is my first motorcycle. I have put in a new
battery, new rear tire, cleaned the carbs, and re-lined the gas tank. All work
professionally performed by Fairfax Cycles (great shop near FFX circle). All the work I've
done adds up to over $900. Nothing needed to ride this bike away! Clean title in my name
and full records. Purple paint job by previous owner. Selling because I'm looking to move
up to something newer. This is an awesome bike for beginners and shorter people (the seat
height is approx 29.5"). Good power from the 600 cc inline 4 cylinder engine.  I've ridden
it over 3,500 miles this past year and nary a problem has presented itself. Garage kept
throughout my ownership. $1,600 price is firm.

There is a small oil leak that I am almost sure is from the oil filter seal.  I think it
just needs a new rubber washer/seal to solve this problem, but consider yourself notified
beforehand ;)  If no one buys the bike this month, I'll be performing an oil change myself
and we'll see if that rectifies the issue.

I don't have a digital photograph of the bike yet, but I'm planning on taking some shots
this weekend when a friend visits with his digital camera (yeah, I'm a late adoptor of that
technology).  If you have any questions I'll be happy to answer them.


=====
"If we cannot live so as to be happy, let us least live so as to deserve it." - Immanuel Hermann Fichte (1797-1879)




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2'
http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 17:39:30 2004
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:39:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: Leon Begeman <mriderleon@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: insurance loss rates for motorcycles?
To: Lurking <lurking444@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX

--- Lurking <lurking444@XXXXXX> wrote:
> I've been thinking about purchasing a new
> motorcycle and I called around to 3 insurance
> companies to get rate quotes on some of the
> bikes I'm considering.  The premiums were awfully
> high (most over $3,000 per year) for full
> coverage.

Why would anyone get full coverage insurance on a
bike?  That just sounds like a really dumb idea to me.
 Given the premium costs, it appears that the
insurance companies think it's a really dumb idea as
well.

If you're going to ride, put your own money on the
line.  If you wreck the bike, dig into your pocket and
fix it.  If your argument is that the finance company
requires full coverage, then ask about deductables.  I
suspect they'll charge significantly less for a full
coverage policy with a $2000 deductable than one where
they get to pay for everything . . . and why would
anyone finance a toy anyway?

Leon.
cheap guy.





__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2'
http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 17:46:11 2004
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:45:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lurking <lurking444@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: insurance loss rates for motorcycles?
To: Leon Begeman <mriderleon@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX

Yep, I agree with you Leon.  In fact, that's another reason why I'm waiting until the
winter to buy my bike.  I hope to have enough cash on hand then to buy it without a loan
from the bank.  I'm still on the fence on whether to go new or used.  The reason I was
getting quotes on full coverage (and yes, I did ask for quotes for varying levels of
deductibles) was to see how much I'd have to shell out if I did get a loan.  Liens require
full coverage as I'm sure you know...  Good thoughts though, I value your opinion as I do
almost all of my fellow DC-cycles.org members.

-Kipp.


--- Leon Begeman <mriderleon@XXXXXX> wrote:
> --- Lurking <lurking444@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > I've been thinking about purchasing a new
> > motorcycle and I called around to 3 insurance
> > companies to get rate quotes on some of the
> > bikes I'm considering.  The premiums were awfully
> > high (most over $3,000 per year) for full
> > coverage.
>
> Why would anyone get full coverage insurance on a
> bike?  That just sounds like a really dumb idea to me.
>  Given the premium costs, it appears that the
> insurance companies think it's a really dumb idea as
> well.
>
> If you're going to ride, put your own money on the
> line.  If you wreck the bike, dig into your pocket and
> fix it.  If your argument is that the finance company
> requires full coverage, then ask about deductables.  I
> suspect they'll charge significantly less for a full
> coverage policy with a $2000 deductable than one where
> they get to pay for everything . . . and why would
> anyone finance a toy anyway?
>
> Leon.
> cheap guy.
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2'
> http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861


=====
"If we cannot live so as to be happy, let us least live so as to deserve it." - Immanuel Hermann Fichte (1797-1879)




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2'
http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 17:53:07 2004
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 17:52:58 -0400
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Aki Damme <adamme1@XXXXXX>
Subject: Looking for a used Gixxer



Have a friend that looking for used Gixxer.  Did not
specify
year/size/color.

If you know someone who's interested in selling, please
forward
info to me and I'll get it over to him.

tks,
-aki

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 17:59:45 2004
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:59:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX


--- "Verde, Robert" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX> wrote:
> My only real point in the earlier interchange was that it's not exactly
> a valid comparison, as we're not talking bikes that can carry four
> people...  Ignoring the issue of how many vehicles on the road today are
> single-driver vehicles, if you compare the number of motorcycles that
> would be needed to carry four people (plus luggage) then each bike would
> have to get 80+ MPG to compare to the Prius.

Oh Oh, I know this one. "But how often are you actually carrying 4 people
plus luggage around?" Basically on the quote regarding SUV's. A comment I
saw somewhere regarding not driving an SUV everywhere just because you
need it for the occasional snow. I mean, you don't wear snowshoes every
day just because they're great in the snow?

So I'll continue to drive my bikes around for most of my errands and we'll
use the Suburu for grocery runs or other trips and rides in the snow and
we'll attach the trailer when a large load is required (like lumber for
wood projects).

Hey, we're covered here and I don't have to drive a $45 per tank SUV all
the time (gas here is $2.11 per gallon for premium and watch out for the
scams; one station advertised $1.99 per gallon only to discover the octane
was 90 instead of the $2.11 92 octane).

>
> Robert

Carl

=====
02 Harley FXSTI
95 Suzuki GSXR 750W
76 Honda Chopper (in progress)




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2'
http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 18:01:38 2004
From: "Dave Yates" <Dave@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: insurance loss rates for motorcycles?
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 18:01:32 -0400
X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec7995440e99e534a28a4430fb369f539aee350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c



> Hello again,
>
> Your friendly neighborhood lurker here again.  I've been thinking about
purchasing a new
> motorcycle and I called around to 3 insurance companies to get rate quotes
on some of the
> bikes I'm considering.  The premiums were awfully high (most over $3,000
per year) for full
> coverage.  I don't have a perfect record, but it's not terrible either.
I'm 25 and have
> one ticket, one auto collision claim, and one comprehensive auto claim in
the past 3 years.
>  Anyway, I'm not going to ask about how to get a lower rate because I know
by this time
> next year the two insurance claims will drop off my "3 year record" and
the rates will be
> much more reasonable (which is why I'm probably going to wait until this
winter to buy my
> new bike).

[Dave]  If you're limiting your search to new models, there's part of the
reason.  Also, if you're
looking at sport bikes, ditto.  The bigger and badder, the more the
premiums.  Back in '94 I was
quoted $4k full coverage for a new zx11 as the high water mark, 2800 was
low... I bought a '90
zx11 and paid $1k full coverage for a year...  Then, it dropped
progressively...  Even a year old
bike will be a little cheaper to insure.

>
> I'm not buying a super-sport even.  I'm looking a some naked sportbikes
(or sport touring),
> such as the Honda 919, Yamaha FZ1/FZ6, and Aprilia Tuono.  It seems that
insurance
> companies rate most sport bikes the same, whether they are true
supersports (R1, GSX1000,
> Ninja 9R) or more relaxed bikes like the ones I'm considering (not that
the ones I'm
> considering aren't really powerful and fast).

[Dave]  Also, don't neglect your credit report.  You're not eligible for
things like premium policies and
good customer discounts if you have blemished credit reports...  Not really
fair, but perfectly legal...



From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 18:03:51 2004
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 15:03:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX


--- Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX> wrote:
> I'm 6'6", 280 lbs.  The extra 4" makes a huge difference.  My ex-wife
> had a
> 1990 Camry sedan.  I could drive it, but only if I tipped my head to one
> side a bit (that was with the seat all the way back, and leaning way
> back...far enough that the shoulder belt wasn't positioned
> properly...several inches in front of my shoulder)...if the Prius is
> more
> cramped than that, it's impossible for me.

My 87 300Z was surprisingly good WRT head room. At 6'2" I had lots of leg
and head room. Rita's Suburu had some good room in the back seat but the
driver's seat can be a little cramped for me.

I tried to sit in one of the concept cars (can't think of what it is now;
wedge front end with wheels on struts) and couldn't even get my head in
the car. There was one on Darbydale. When I saw it at 7/11 I checked the
guy and he seemed to be about half a head shorter that me (5'8" or so).

> -- Mike B.

Carl

=====
02 Harley FXSTI
95 Suzuki GSXR 750W
76 Honda Chopper (in progress)




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2'
http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 18:04:46 2004
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 18:04:35 -0400
From: Brian Roach <roach@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: insurance loss rates for motorcycles?

Leon Begeman wrote:

> Why would anyone get full coverage insurance on a
> bike?  That just sounds like a really dumb idea to me.
>  Given the premium costs, it appears that the
> insurance companies think it's a really dumb idea as
> well.

Yup. What I've always done though is get liability and
fire/theft/vandalism. The one time I had a bike stolen from me, I was
VERY happy I had that coverage. It wasn't horribly expensive (nothing
approaching what full coverage is).

- Roach

--
http://www.speedwerks.com
The one-stop shop for all your motorcycling needs!
(302) 672 - 7223

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 18:07:44 2004
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 15:07:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: insurance loss rates for motorcycles?
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX


--- Lurking <lurking444@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Hello again,
>
>
> What I'm wondering is if anyone knows a source for the "multiplier" that
> insurance
> companies use for each individual bike model.  I could use this to see
> which motorcycle
> model will have the best and worst effect on insurance premiums and that
> would aid my
> decision process.

We just had to reassociate with a local agent. We're using State Farm.
While they put the models in the database, only the engine size dictated
the rate, not whether it was a supersport or a cruiser. My Harley has a
higher rate that the Suzuki which is a tad higher than Rita's VLX. 1450cc
vs 750cc vs 600cc.

So it may depend on which insurance you get.

>
> -Kipp.

Carl


=====
02 Harley FXSTI
95 Suzuki GSXR 750W
76 Honda Chopper (in progress)




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2'
http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 20:47:39 2004
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 20:46:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: dan <dan@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: insurance loss rates for motorcycles?

On Wed, 12 May 2004, Brian Roach wrote:

> Yup. What I've always done though is get liability and
> fire/theft/vandalism. The one time I had a bike stolen from me, I was
> VERY happy I had that coverage. It wasn't horribly expensive (nothing
> approaching what full coverage is).
>
> - Roach

I do the same on both bikes and the car that is paid for.  I figure if I
wreck it, I pay for it.  Comprehensive is usually the highest cost for
most "sportier" or larger (for state farm) vehicles.  If you can get
insurance though State Farm, I suggest them, their prices are unbeatable
and the service is great too.

Dan

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 21:20:03 2004
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 16:14:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R  - $1800
To: mark hermes <mark_hermes2001@XXXXXX>

Hi Mark!

Funny we have the same name!  That means I can trust
you right.  WEll, sorry I have not been in touch
sooner but I have been doing some research about
insurance.  I have been in a few accidents so its hard
for me to get insurance.  You know how that is with a
fast bike and the police, right??

Anyway, all I need before sending you the money is the
VIN number from the bike.  That way I can check on
insurance before it gets here.

Thanks


--- mark hermes <mark_hermes2001@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Ok ,
> Send me $1600 via westen union.
> And give me your name and address for shipping , i
> am ready to send you the bike.
> This is my western union detalies:
> Mark Hermes
> 17 central circus
> NW4 3AS
> London
> England
>
> I am in London with my wife at my broather.
>
> Best regards
>
>
> Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX> wrote:Wait I
> thought you were visting your brother in
> London. Now your wife lives there. This is getting
> confusing.
>
> I still want the bike though. How can I send you the
> money?
>
> Also, will you take $1600?
>
>
> --- Dave Yates wrote:
> > My friend's name is Rita, but you can't visit her
> > because she
> > works and lives on a secure installation. She
> rides
> > a
> > scooter most of the time due to the high petrol
> > prices, but
> > she's a qualified motorcycle rider so she'll be
> able
> > to tell
> > that it's a good bike.
> >
> > what's your address?
> >
> > ---- Original message ----
> > >Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 14:08:56 -0700 (PDT)
> > >From: mark hermes
> > >Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R  - $1800
> > >To: Dave Yates
> > >
> > > I will give you my address but he can't come at
> > my
> > > home because my wife don't accept that , i think
> > you
> > > understand me.
> > > Give me your friend name and address
> > >
> > >
> > > Dave Yates wrote:
> > >
> > > Not me, Mark Kitchell has 1st dibs on the
> > bike.
> > > Just let
> > > Mark know where my buddy can come to inspect
> > the
> > > bike.
> > >
> > > Dave
> > >
> > > ---- Original message ----
> > > >Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 13:53:29 -0700 (PDT)
> > > >From: mark hermes
> > > >Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R -
> > $1800
> > > >To: Dave Yates
> > > >
> > > > You can send the money at your friend via
> > > western
> > > > union , in this way i can check at
> > westernunion
> > > > website . And afther i see that you sent the
> > > money i
> > > > will send you the bike
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Dave Yates wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hey Mark (Kitchell),
> > > >
> > > > I've got a mate in London who could probably
> > go
> > > > and inspect
> > > > it for you. And let me know if you're not
> > > > interested, I've
> > > > got some spare greenbacks laying around
> > too...
> > > >
> > > > Dave Y.
> > > >
> > > > >--- mark hermes
> > > wrote:
> > > > >> Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 12:58:08 -0700
> > (PDT)
> > > > >> From: mark hermes
> >
> > > > >> Subject: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800
> > > > >> To: Mark Kitchell
> >
> > > > >>
> > > > >> The bike is legal,
> > > > >> I am from New Your but now i am at my
> > brother
> > > > in
> > > > >> London and i have the bike here.
> > > > >> The bike is legal. Don't worry i will pay
> > the
> > > > >> shipping
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Mark Kitchell
> > > wrote:Ok,
> > > > I
> > > > >> am interested but is the bike in th! e
> > US? If
> > > > it
> > > > >> is in England then how is it registered
> > in
> > > the
> > > > US.
> > > > >> Its very important to me that it is a
> > legal
> > > > bike in
> > > > >>! ; the US.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Who pays the shipping fee? How much is
> > that?
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> --- mark hermes wrote:
> > > > >> > Yes the price is 1800$.
> > > > >> > I am from London and I sell this bike
> > > because
> > > > is
> > > > >> > registered in US
> > > > >> > I can send you the bike via DHL and if
> > you
> > > > are
> > > > >> > interested I will pay all shipping
> > taxes.
> > > > >> > Tell me if you are realy interested to
> > > start
> > > > the
> > > > >> > deal with me,
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Mark Kitchell wrote:
> > > > >> > Hi, is price correct? It seems very
> > low.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Thanks
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > __________________________________
> > > > >> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > >> > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo!
> > > > HotJobs
> > > > >> >
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > ---------------------------------
> > > > >> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > >> > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo!
> > > > HotJobs
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> __________________________________
> > > > >> Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > >> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo!
> > > HotJobs
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> ---------------------------------
> > > > >> Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > >> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo!
> > > HotJobs
> > > > >
>
=== message truncated ===





__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2'
http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 23:42:57 2004
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 23:44:12 -0400
To: "Verde, Robert" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG

At 05:27 PM 5/12/04 -0400, Verde, Robert wrote:
>I like this one: http://www.unixpapa.com/cars.html  ;-)
>
>Even by these humourous standards, Mike, you would qualify, so don't
worry, no one is attacking your desire to drive a Jeep.

Don't think I do by that guy's standards.  Tough.

As for no one attacking, you may not be, but it comes up all the time, and
I've had enough of it.  On TV, on the radio, in print, on the net...there's
always some imagination-deprived, self-important, PC-Liberal around with
their bigoted opinions about nobody needing SUVs, and that everyone should
buy and drive a sub-compact, or better yet, ride public transit or a pedal
bike...mostly for the reasons your page creator gives.

So what's he going to do when he buys his wagon, and some guy with a
two-seat sports car says all the same things about his choice?  That it's
too tall to see past, too heavy to handle well, too deadly in a crash,
etc.?  Probably the same thing I say to those who hate SUVs: blow it out
the orifice of your choice.

> I was referring to the reasons people give in response to the question;
"Why did you decide to buy [Product x]?" as "justification.  If you prefer
another word with equivalent connotation and denotation, please suggest one.

"Reasons" might do it.  "Decision factors" would work too.

>I recommend the following for your reading enjoyment;
>http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1586481231/p11-20/ref%3Dnosim/103-79
44493-7283841
>Or; http://www.drivers.com/article/621/

Not going to read the book, but the web page has some facts right...but
they mostly boil down to "some people can't drive".  This is true no matter
what you put them in, so I'm not sure why it's relevant to SUVs in
particular?  A full-sized VAN or Pickup would have most of the same
problems, some worse, some not as bad.

As for what he says about handling, wind gusts, etc., I had worse with my
'67 VW bug.  My Jeep accelerates better, stops better, handles wind gusts
better, has better wet road, snowy road and dry road traction, carries more
people and/or cargo, and gets *almost* the same highway gas mileage (VW
could hit 25 highway, the Jeep gets about 19-20 highway).  Don't know if
he's actually measured tire patch sizes, but 4 wheels totalling about the
same as a sheet of stationary is a bit low.  Each of my tires is at least
3/4 of a sheet all by itself.

>But, I'll take your comments in the politest possible interpretation, and
withdraw the [SUV] portion of my previous side-bar question, replacing it
with [mini-van] as an equivalent people-carrier.  Better now?

Yep!  Sounds reasonable to me now!  Those soccer moms should all be
restricted to tennis shoes...  ;-)

>I think the potential survey would still make interesting reading.  ;-]

Ok.  Aren't there web sites where you can run surveys?  It won't be a
scientifically valid sample, but it might be fun for you anyway.  Something
like this one maybe:

http://www.webenalysis.com/onlinepolls.asp


-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 00:50:02 2004
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 00:49:39 -0400
From: Brian Roach <roach@XXXXXX>
To: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
CC: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG

Mike Bartman wrote:

> Toyota's pickups?  No head room, no leg room, no way to move the seat back
> any farther.

I actually find that my Tundra has a TON of room. I do have the extended
cab though, which obviously allows the seat to go back farther. I'm just
shy of 6' tall, and have headroom problems in a lot of vehicles. My
wife's Mustang GT, for example ... I have to take the "gangsta" position
to drive the thing, with the seat reclined to where I'm looking at the B
pillar if I turn my head 90 degrees.

Oh ... and if I didn't actually need a truck on a near daily basis ... I
don't think I'd own one, at least not a full-size with a big V8. 15 city
(on a good day) / 17 hwy is a bit much to take these days.

- Roach

--
http://www.speedwerks.com
The one-stop shop for all your motorcycling needs!
(302) 672 - 7223

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 01:49:48 2004
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 01:49:40 -0400
From: Skip Smith <Skip@XXXXXX>
To: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: More on headlights on bikes in VA

however...

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+46.2-1030

)B§ 46.2-1030. When lights to be lighted; number of lights to be lighted
at any time; use of warning lights.

A. Every vehicle in operation on a highway in the Commonwealth shall
display lighted headlights and illuminating devices as required by this
article (i) from sunset to sunrise, (ii) during any other time when,
because of rain, smoke, fog, snow, sleet, insufficient light, or other
unfavorable
atmospheric conditions, visibility is reduced to a degree whereby
persons or vehicles on the highway are not clearly discernible at a
distance of
500 feet, and (iii) whenever windshield wipers are in use as a result of
fog, rain, sleet, or snow. The provisions of this subsection, however,
shall
not apply to instances when windshield wipers are used intermittently in
misting rain, sleet, or snow.

Troutman wrote:
>
> http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+46.2-912
>
> Skip called me on it, so I did a search.  Technically, you can ride without
> a headlight in VA, but under very specific circumstances :
>
> )B§ 46.2-912. Operating motorcycle without headlight, horn or rearview mirror.
>
> A. Notwithstanding any other provision of law, motorcycles may be operated
> without headlights, horns, or rearview mirrors on public highways if all
> the following conditions are met:
>
> 1. The motorcycles are designed for use in trail riding and endurance runs;
>
> 2. The motorcycles are being driven by duly licensed persons;
>
> 3. The motorcycles are being operated between sunrise and sunset; and
>
> 4. The motorcycles are being operated during endurance runs sanctioned by
> the American Motorcycle Association.
>
> B. No person shall operate motorcycles without such equipment on the public
> highways of the Commonwealth other than at the times and under the
> circumstances set forth in this section.
> (1970, c. 300, )B§ 46.1-172.01; 1978, c. 605; 1989, c. 727.)
>
> ___________________________________________
>      Mike Troutman
>          http://www.troutman.org/vfr
>          1997 Honda VFR 750
>             AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/
>             NMA http://www.motorists.org
>
> One who knows the enemy and knows himself
> will not be in danger in a hundred battles.
> One who does not know the enemy but knows himself
> will sometimes win, sometimes lose.
> One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself
> will be in danger in every battle.
>   - Sun Tzu

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 08:47:02 2004
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 05:46:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Glenn Dysart <glenn_dysart@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: insurance loss rates for motorcycles?
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

Hmm Leon I guess its a good idea to me.  I get full
coverage on my VFR for about $250, this with the
higher liability coverage too.  And I don't have a
squeaky clean record either.

Glenn


--- Leon Begeman <mriderleon@XXXXXX> wrote:
>
> Why would anyone get full coverage insurance on a
> bike?  That just sounds like a really dumb idea to
> me.
>  Given the premium costs, it appears that the
> insurance companies think it's a really dumb idea as
> well.
>
> If you're going to ride, put your own money on the
> line.  If you wreck the bike, dig into your pocket
> and
> fix it.  If your argument is that the finance
> company
> requires full coverage, then ask about deductables.
> I
> suspect they'll charge significantly less for a full
> coverage policy with a $2000 deductable than one
> where
> they get to pay for everything . . . and why would
> anyone finance a toy anyway?





__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2'
http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 09:48:37 2004
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 09:47:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: dan <dan@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG

On Thu, 13 May 2004, Brian Roach wrote:

> Mike Bartman wrote:
>
> I actually find that my Tundra has a TON of room. I do have the extended
> cab though, which obviously allows the seat to go back farther. I'm just
> shy of 6' tall, and have headroom problems in a lot of vehicles. My

Ditto on the Tundra, I'm 6'3" and can strech my legs out straight if I
need to.  The back seats on the other hand....

> wife's Mustang GT, for example ... I have to take the "gangsta" position
> to drive the thing, with the seat reclined to where I'm looking at the B
> pillar if I turn my head 90 degrees.
>

Yeah, Mustang's suck for legroom.  Most cars do.  I used to have an Impala
SS, should have never sold that, that had all the room I ever needed.

> Oh ... and if I didn't actually need a truck on a near daily basis ... I
> don't think I'd own one, at least not a full-size with a big V8. 15 city
> (on a good day) / 17 hwy is a bit much to take these days.


I'm getting about 17 or 18 in mixed in mine.  That's with frequent sprints
up to the speed limit.  Man does that DOHC V8 sound good :-)  17 for a
pickup truck is pretty good from what i have seen.  I can't be happier
with mine.

Dan

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 09:51:37 2004
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 09:51:07 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
From: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
Reply-To: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
To: Glenn Dysart <glenn_dysart@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: insurance loss rates for motorcycles?



-----Original Message-----
From: Glenn Dysart <glenn_dysart@XXXXXX>

Hmm Leon I guess its a good idea to me.  I get full
coverage on my VFR for about $250, this with the
higher liability coverage too.  And I don't have a
squeaky clean record either.

Glenn


--- Leon Begeman <mriderleon@XXXXXX> wrote:
>
> Why would anyone get full coverage insurance on a
> bike?  That just sounds like a really dumb idea to
> me.
>  Given the premium costs, it appears that the
> insurance companies think it's a really dumb idea as
> well.
> ...

I'm with Glenn on this one.  Collision is a minor cost on my policy, esp. with a high deductible.  Comp (esp. in DC) is a big line item.  This way I have some recourse for the bike--and the not insignificant cost of accessories--should I wad it.  I suppose in a year or two, the bike will be of a monetary value where self-insurance makes sense.

KLR on the other hand is liability only.  Motorcyclists should take a good look at their liability coverages.  $300K is a good place to start.  How much damage can a bike do, you say.  State minimums are laughably insufficient for all but the most minor crashes.  Causing a crash that sends another driver to the hospital and totals a car can go through a state-mandated minimum in a heartbeat.  If you don't believe me, read this....

http://www.dd.org/~tale/bikewreck/insurance.html



Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org
95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour]

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 09:53:45 2004
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 09:52:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: dan <dan@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Tour Buses on the Toll Road/Greenway

Has anyone else noticed the increase in tour buses on the toll road?
These asshats hog the hell out of the left lane, will not move over for
anything, then when it gets into the twistier part (haha) with the 55mph
marked turns start drifting into other lanes @75mph.  Its happened quite a
few times now, I'm sending an email to VSP to see what they can do.

Dan

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 09:56:23 2004
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 04:38:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R  - $1800
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Vin # after the bike?

No come on!


--- mark hermes <mark_hermes2001@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 03:42:09 -0700 (PDT)
> From: mark hermes <mark_hermes2001@XXXXXX>
> Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R  - $1800
> To: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
>
> Ok,
> i will send you the bike
> give me your name and address for shipping
> i will give you the vin# afther you will send the
> money
>
> best regards
>
>
>
>
> Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX> wrote:Hi
> Mark!
>
> Funny we have the same name! That means I can trust
> you right. WEll, sorry I have not been in touch
> sooner but I have been doing some research about
> insurance. I have been in a few accidents so its
> hard
> for me to get insurance. You know how that is with a
> fast bike and the police, right??
>
> Anyway, all I need before sending you the money is
> the
> VIN number from the bike. That way I can check on
> insurance before it gets here.
>
> Thanks
>
>
> --- mark hermes wrote:
> > Ok ,
> > Send me $1600 via westen union.
> > And give me your name and address for shipping , i
> > am ready to send you the bike.
> > This is my western union detalies:
> > Mark Hermes
> > 17 central circus
> > NW4 3AS
> > London
> > England
> >
> > I am in London with my wife at my broather.
> >
> > Best regards
> >
> >
> > Mark Kitchell wrote:Wait I
> > thought you were visting your brother in
> > London. Now your wife lives there. This is getting
> > confusing.
> >
> > I still want the bike though. How can I send you
> the
> > money?
> >
> > Also, will you take $1600?
> >
> >
> > --- Dave Yates wrote:
> > > My friend's name is Rita, but you can't visit
> her
> > > because she
> > > works and lives on a secure installation. She
> > rides
> > > a
> > > scooter most of the time due to the high petrol
> > > prices, but
> > > she's a qualified motorcycle rider so she'll be
> > able
> > > to tell
> > > that it's a good bike.
> > >
> > > what's your address?
> > >
> > > ---- Original message ----
> > > >Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 14:08:56 -0700 (PDT)
> > > >From: mark hermes
> > > >Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800
> > > >To: Dave Yates
> > > >
> > > > I will give you my address but he can't come
> at
> > > my
> > > > home because my wife don't accept that , i
> think
> > > you
> > > > understand me.
> > > > Give me your friend name and address
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Dave Yates wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Not me, Mark Kitchell has 1st dibs on the
> > > bike.
> > > > Just let
> > > > Mark know where my buddy can come to inspect
> > > the
> > > > bike.
> > > >
> > > > Dave
> > > >
> > > > ---- Original message ----
> > > > >Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 13:53:29 -0700 (PDT)
> > > > >From: mark hermes
> > > > >Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R -
> > > $1800
> > > > >To: Dave Yates
> > > > >
> > > > > You can send the money at your friend via
> > > > western
> > > > > union , in this way i can check at
> > > westernunion
> > > > > website . And afther i see that you sent the
> > > > money i
> > > > > will send you the bike
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Dave Yates wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hey Mark (Kitchell),
> > > > >
> > > > > I've got a mate in London who could probably
> > > go
> > > > > and inspect
> > > > > it for you. And let me know if you're not
> > > > > interested, I've
> > > > > got some spare greenbacks laying around
> > > too...
> > > > >
> > > > > Dave Y.
> > > > >
> > > > > >--- mark hermes
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > >> Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 12:58:08 -0700
> > > (PDT)
> > > > > >> From: mark hermes
> > >
> > > > > >> Subject: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800
> > > > > >> To: Mark Kitchell
> > >
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> The bike is legal,
> > > > > >> I am from New Your but now i am at my
> > > brother
> > > > > in
> > > > > >> London and i have the bike here.
> > > > > >> The bike is legal. Don't worry i will pay
> > > the
> > > > > >> shipping
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Mark Kitchell
> > > > wrote:Ok,
> > > > > I
> > > > > >> am interested but is the bike in th! e
> > > US? If
> > > > > it
> > > > > >> is in England then how is it registered
> > > in
> > > > the
> > > > > US.
> > > > > >> Its very important to me that it is a
> > > legal
> > > > > bike in
> > > > > >>! ; the US.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Who pays the shipping fee? How much is
> > > that?
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> --- mark hermes wrote:
> > > > > >> > Yes the price is 1800$.
> > > > > >> > I am from London and I sell this bike
> > > > because
> > > > > is
> > > > > >> > registered in US
> > > > > >> > I can send you the bike via DHL and if
> > > you
> > > > > are
> > > > > >> > interested I will pay all shipping
> > > taxes.
> > > > > >> > Tell me if you are realy interested to
> > > > start
> > > > > the
> > > > > >> > deal with me,
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Mark Kitchell wrote:
> > > > > >> > Hi, is price correct? It seems very
> > > low.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Thanks
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > __________________________________
> > > > > >> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > > >> > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo!
> > > > > HotJobs
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > ---------------------------------
> > > > > >> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > > >> > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo!
> > > > > HotJobs
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> __________________________________
> > > > > >> Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > > >> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo!
> > > > HotJobs
> > > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> ---------------------------------
> > > > > >> Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > > >> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo!
> > > > HotJobs
> > > > > >
> >
> === message truncated ===
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2'
>
http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2'





__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2'
http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 10:09:41 2004
Subject: RE: Tour Buses on the Toll Road/Greenway
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:09:29 -0400
From: "Verde, Robert" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>
To: "dan" <dan@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

I've dodged the land leviathans a few times, usually just at the merge from I-66 onto the toll road approach.  The only positive aspect is you can sure spot them from a mile away, and I make my lane choices accordingly.  The close calls I have had in their vicinity come from exasperated cage drivers swerving between lanes without signalling, gotta watch for that.

Did anyone spot the heavy LEO presence this morning on the East-bound toll road (technically non-toll, I guess) between 495 and I-66?  Four cruisers had cars pulled over in a single stretch no longer than 1500 feet, almost looked like a sting operation for HOV violators.

Robert


-----Original Message-----
From: dan [mailto:dan@XXXXXX]
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 9:53 AM
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Tour Buses on the Toll Road/Greenway


Has anyone else noticed the increase in tour buses on the toll road?
These asshats hog the hell out of the left lane, will not move over for
anything, then when it gets into the twistier part (haha) with the 55mph
marked turns start drifting into other lanes @75mph.  Its happened quite a
few times now, I'm sending an email to VSP to see what they can do.

Dan


From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 10:14:23 2004
From: "Wesleyan Hsu" <wes@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Tour Buses on the Toll Road/Greenway
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:14:13 -0400

Are you sure they're not commuter buses? I've had to ride the Loudoun
Commuter buses (which seem to be contracted tour buses) to and from DC for
the past week. There's about 16 buses that run during rush hour. In the
morning, they do stay in the left lane, since it's HOV and then they hop
onto the airport lane at their first opportunity. I don't know how long this
service has been running, but maybe these are many of the busses that you
are referring to. If you're seeing lane drifting a lot, I'm sure the powers
that be would like to know about it. I doubt anyone you talk to there will
agree with you that the buses should move out of the HOV lane though.

Wes Hsu

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dan [mailto:dan@XXXXXX]
> Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 9:53 AM
> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> Subject: Tour Buses on the Toll Road/Greenway
>
> Has anyone else noticed the increase in tour buses on the toll road?
> These asshats hog the hell out of the left lane, will not
> move over for anything, then when it gets into the twistier
> part (haha) with the 55mph marked turns start drifting into
> other lanes @75mph.  Its happened quite a few times now, I'm
> sending an email to VSP to see what they can do.
>
> Dan


From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 10:16:24 2004
From: "Sean Steele" <sean@XXXXXX>
To: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:16:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R  - $1800

Time to report this guy to ebay mebbe?
-Sean

Mark Kitchell wrote:

> Vin # after the bike?
>
> No come on!
>
>
> --- mark hermes <mark_hermes2001@XXXXXX> wrote:
>
>>Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 03:42:09 -0700 (PDT)
>>From: mark hermes <mark_hermes2001@XXXXXX>
>>Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R  - $1800
>>To: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
>>
>>Ok,
>>i will send you the bike
>>give me your name and address for shipping
>>i will give you the vin# afther you will send the
>>money
>>
>>best regards
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX> wrote:Hi
>>Mark!
>>
>>Funny we have the same name! That means I can trust
>>you right. WEll, sorry I have not been in touch
>>sooner but I have been doing some research about
>>insurance. I have been in a few accidents so its
>>hard
>>for me to get insurance. You know how that is with a
>>fast bike and the police, right??
>>
>>Anyway, all I need before sending you the money is
>>the
>>VIN number from the bike. That way I can check on
>>insurance before it gets here.
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>
>>--- mark hermes wrote:
>>
>>>Ok ,
>>>Send me $1600 via westen union.
>>>And give me your name and address for shipping , i
>>>am ready to send you the bike.
>>>This is my western union detalies:
>>>Mark Hermes
>>>17 central circus
>>>NW4 3AS
>>>London
>>>England

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 10:21:15 2004
From: "rich hall" <richallmc@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: Tour Buses on the Toll Road/Greenway
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:21:07 -0400

I had 3 tour buses in a row goin over the Rosevelt bridge, def not the
commuters.
Back when I lived farther out, state troopers were doing HOV almost every
morning inbetween the Toll Road & 66.  God bless them.

>From: "Wesleyan Hsu" <wes@XXXXXX>
>To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
>Subject: RE: Tour Buses on the Toll Road/Greenway
>Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:14:13 -0400
>
>Are you sure they're not commuter buses? I've had to ride the Loudoun
>Commuter buses (which seem to be contracted tour buses) to and from DC for
>the past week. There's about 16 buses that run during rush hour. In the
>morning, they do stay in the left lane, since it's HOV and then they hop
>onto the airport lane at their first opportunity. I don't know how long
>this
>service has been running, but maybe these are many of the busses that you
>are referring to. If you're seeing lane drifting a lot, I'm sure the powers
>that be would like to know about it. I doubt anyone you talk to there will
>agree with you that the buses should move out of the HOV lane though.
>
>Wes Hsu
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: dan [mailto:dan@XXXXXX]
> > Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 9:53 AM
> > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> > Subject: Tour Buses on the Toll Road/Greenway
> >
> > Has anyone else noticed the increase in tour buses on the toll road?
> > These asshats hog the hell out of the left lane, will not
> > move over for anything, then when it gets into the twistier
> > part (haha) with the 55mph marked turns start drifting into
> > other lanes @75mph.  Its happened quite a few times now, I'm
> > sending an email to VSP to see what they can do.
> >
> > Dan
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee)B®
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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 10:24:13 2004
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:24:01 -0400
From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R  - $1800
X-AOL-IP: 65.86.98.162

Hmmmm....this is getting good.  You think you can keep f'ing with him a few more days?  ;-)  Have you involved any authorities yet to track this guy down?  Afterall, you've got an address.  :-)  Who knows if it's really his or not but, it's a place to start.  I can't believe this guy honestly thinks you believe he is from New York with such horrible language skills and really want the bike.

Scooter

In a message dated 5/13/2004 7:38:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time, markkitchell@XXXXXX writes:

>
>
> Vin # after the bike?
>
> No come on!
>
>
> --- mark hermes <mark_hermes2001@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 03:42:09 -0700 (PDT)
> > From: mark hermes <mark_hermes2001@XXXXXX>
> > Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R  - $1800
> > To: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
> >
> > Ok,
> > i will send you the bike
> > give me your name and address for shipping
> > i will give you the vin# afther you will send the
> > money
> >
> > best regards
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX> wrote:Hi
> > Mark!
> >
> > Funny we have the same name! That means I can trust
> > you right. WEll, sorry I have not been in touch
> > sooner but I have been doing some research about
> > insurance. I have been in a few accidents so its
> > hard
> > for me to get insurance. You know how that is with a
> > fast bike and the police, right??
> >
> > Anyway, all I need before sending you the money is
> > the
> > VIN number from the bike. That way I can check on
> > insurance before it gets here.
> >
> > Thanks

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 10:39:50 2004
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 07:39:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: matthew patton <pattonme@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: insurance loss rates for motorcycles?
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX


--- Leon Begeman <mriderleon@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Why would anyone get full coverage insurance on a
> bike?  That just sounds like a really dumb idea to me.

I've debated this with myself a couple of times. Like you I ride 350+
days a year and now get to try that in Chicago weather. Full coverage
is something hideous like $600/yr. I need to find a new company. But
anyway liability only is $300/yr and I don't remember if I can even get
loss/comprehensive protection if I don't carry collision. I figure the
most likely scenario is that I won't ever have to make a claim. Next
up, somebody will hit me despite my orange vest and reflecto striping.
Least probable would be me tossing it away on my own. But I don't have
any money in the bank to cover the repairs. I'll probably end up
insurance shopping again around July and see what to do about riding in
chicago winters.

> cheap guy.

Matt. Not quite EX250 cheap.

=====
"If you believe what you like in the Gospels, and reject what you do
not like, it is not the Gospel you believe, but yourself."
  -- Augustine of Hippo (AD 354-430)

* A successful marriage isn't finding the right person; it's being
the right person.

* Liberalism always generates the exact opposite of its stated intent.
  -- Jim Quinn (www.warroom.com)

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 10:47:35 2004
Subject: RE: 2002 Ninja ZX6R  - $1800
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:47:26 -0400
From: "Verde, Robert" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>
To: <ScooterFZR@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

http://www.met.police.uk/crimeprevention/vehicle.htm
http://www.crimestoppers-uk.org/
Some links for UK law enforcement, might be fun to report this scam artiste...

Other people having fun with scammers:
http://forum.motorcycle-usa.com/?f=17&m=70300&g=70309
http://www.biggest-auction-site.com/ebay-motorcycle-scam.php

It should be possible to forward this correspondence to somebody official, have them check out the address, see if it's even a real place.  Have you Mapquested it?

Robert




-----Original Message-----
From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX [mailto:ScooterFZR@XXXXXX]
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 10:24 AM
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800


Hmmmm....this is getting good.  You think you can keep f'ing with him a few more days?  ;-)  Have you involved any authorities yet to track this guy down?  Afterall, you've got an address.  :-)  Who knows if it's really his or not but, it's a place to start.  I can't believe this guy honestly thinks you believe he is from New York with such horrible language skills and really want the bike.

Scooter

In a message dated 5/13/2004 7:38:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time, markkitchell@XXXXXX writes:

>
>
> Vin # after the bike?
>
> No come on!
>
>
> --- mark hermes <mark_hermes2001@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 03:42:09 -0700 (PDT)
> > From: mark hermes <mark_hermes2001@XXXXXX>
> > Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R  - $1800
> > To: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
> >
> > Ok,
> > i will send you the bike
> > give me your name and address for shipping
> > i will give you the vin# afther you will send the
> > money
> >
> > best regards
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX> wrote:Hi
> > Mark!
> >
> > Funny we have the same name! That means I can trust
> > you right. WEll, sorry I have not been in touch
> > sooner but I have been doing some research about
> > insurance. I have been in a few accidents so its
> > hard
> > for me to get insurance. You know how that is with a
> > fast bike and the police, right??
> >
> > Anyway, all I need before sending you the money is
> > the
> > VIN number from the bike. That way I can check on
> > insurance before it gets here.
> >
> > Thanks


From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 10:51:57 2004
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:51:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Daniel H. Brown" <brown@XXXXXX>
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R  - $1800


How about telling him you went to WU and they said they couldn't
deliver to that address - ask if he has another, and a phone number
too ;-)

Also, a couple google searches show that addr to be an Italian restaurant,
"L'Artista" or "La Dolce Vita" in London.


On Thu, 13 May 2004, Mark Kitchell wrote:

> Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 04:38:57 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
> To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
> Subject: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R  - $1800
>
> Vin # after the bike?
>
> No come on!
>
>
> --- mark hermes <mark_hermes2001@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 03:42:09 -0700 (PDT)
> > From: mark hermes <mark_hermes2001@XXXXXX>
> > Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R  - $1800
> > To: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
> >
> > Ok,
> > i will send you the bike
> > give me your name and address for shipping
> > i will give you the vin# afther you will send the
> > money
> >
> > best regards
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX> wrote:Hi
> > Mark!
> >
> > Funny we have the same name! That means I can trust
> > you right. WEll, sorry I have not been in touch
> > sooner but I have been doing some research about
> > insurance. I have been in a few accidents so its
> > hard
> > for me to get insurance. You know how that is with a
> > fast bike and the police, right??
> >
> > Anyway, all I need before sending you the money is
> > the
> > VIN number from the bike. That way I can check on
> > insurance before it gets here.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >
> > --- mark hermes wrote:
> > > Ok ,
> > > Send me $1600 via westen union.
> > > And give me your name and address for shipping , i
> > > am ready to send you the bike.
> > > This is my western union detalies:
> > > Mark Hermes
> > > 17 central circus
> > > NW4 3AS
> > > London
> > > England
> > >
> > > I am in London with my wife at my broather.
> > >
> > > Best regards
> > >
> > >
> > > Mark Kitchell wrote:Wait I
> > > thought you were visting your brother in
> > > London. Now your wife lives there. This is getting
> > > confusing.
> > >
> > > I still want the bike though. How can I send you
> > the
> > > money?
> > >
> > > Also, will you take $1600?
> > >
> > >
> > > --- Dave Yates wrote:
> > > > My friend's name is Rita, but you can't visit
> > her
> > > > because she
> > > > works and lives on a secure installation. She
> > > rides
> > > > a
> > > > scooter most of the time due to the high petrol
> > > > prices, but
> > > > she's a qualified motorcycle rider so she'll be
> > > able
> > > > to tell
> > > > that it's a good bike.
> > > >
> > > > what's your address?
> > > >
> > > > ---- Original message ----
> > > > >Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 14:08:56 -0700 (PDT)
> > > > >From: mark hermes
> > > > >Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800
> > > > >To: Dave Yates
> > > > >
> > > > > I will give you my address but he can't come
> > at
> > > > my
> > > > > home because my wife don't accept that , i
> > think
> > > > you
> > > > > understand me.
> > > > > Give me your friend name and address
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Dave Yates wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Not me, Mark Kitchell has 1st dibs on the
> > > > bike.
> > > > > Just let
> > > > > Mark know where my buddy can come to inspect
> > > > the
> > > > > bike.
> > > > >
> > > > > Dave
> > > > >
> > > > > ---- Original message ----
> > > > > >Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 13:53:29 -0700 (PDT)
> > > > > >From: mark hermes
> > > > > >Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R -
> > > > $1800
> > > > > >To: Dave Yates
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You can send the money at your friend via
> > > > > western
> > > > > > union , in this way i can check at
> > > > westernunion
> > > > > > website . And afther i see that you sent the
> > > > > money i
> > > > > > will send you the bike
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dave Yates wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hey Mark (Kitchell),
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I've got a mate in London who could probably
> > > > go
> > > > > > and inspect
> > > > > > it for you. And let me know if you're not
> > > > > > interested, I've
> > > > > > got some spare greenbacks laying around
> > > > too...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dave Y.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >--- mark hermes
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >> Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 12:58:08 -0700
> > > > (PDT)
> > > > > > >> From: mark hermes
> > > >
> > > > > > >> Subject: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800
> > > > > > >> To: Mark Kitchell
> > > >
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> The bike is legal,
> > > > > > >> I am from New Your but now i am at my
> > > > brother
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > >> London and i have the bike here.
> > > > > > >> The bike is legal. Don't worry i will pay
> > > > the
> > > > > > >> shipping
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Mark Kitchell
> > > > > wrote:Ok,
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > >> am interested but is the bike in th! e
> > > > US? If
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > >> is in England then how is it registered
> > > > in
> > > > > the
> > > > > > US.
> > > > > > >> Its very important to me that it is a
> > > > legal
> > > > > > bike in
> > > > > > >>! ; the US.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Who pays the shipping fee? How much is
> > > > that?
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> --- mark hermes wrote:
> > > > > > >> > Yes the price is 1800$.
> > > > > > >> > I am from London and I sell this bike
> > > > > because
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > >> > registered in US
> > > > > > >> > I can send you the bike via DHL and if
> > > > you
> > > > > > are
> > > > > > >> > interested I will pay all shipping
> > > > taxes.
> > > > > > >> > Tell me if you are realy interested to
> > > > > start
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > >> > deal with me,
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> > Mark Kitchell wrote:
> > > > > > >> > Hi, is price correct? It seems very
> > > > low.
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> > Thanks
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> > __________________________________
> > > > > > >> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > > > >> > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo!
> > > > > > HotJobs
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> > ---------------------------------
> > > > > > >> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > > > >> > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo!
> > > > > > HotJobs
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> __________________________________
> > > > > > >> Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > > > >> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo!
> > > > > HotJobs
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> ---------------------------------
> > > > > > >> Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > > > >> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo!
> > > > > HotJobs
> > > > > > >
> > >
> > === message truncated ===
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2'
> >
> http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2'
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2'
> http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861
>
>

--
Dan Brown
brown@XXXXXX

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 10:54:48 2004
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 07:54:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: matthew patton <pattonme@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX


> more children are injured or killed playing highschool football than
> are injured
> or killed by handguns.

or if Chicago's blithering media is to be believed, soccer results in
tragic deaths and should be banned. or something. I think my son will
ride dirt bikes, thanks.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 10:54:49 2004
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:50:06 -0400
To: Brian Roach <roach@XXXXXX>
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG
Cc: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

At 12:49 AM 5/13/04 -0400, Brian Roach wrote:
>Mike Bartman wrote:
>
>> Toyota's pickups?  No head room, no leg room, no way to move the seat back
>> any farther.
>
>I actually find that my Tundra has a TON of room.

Tried them.  Too small to drive.

>I do have the extended
>cab though, which obviously allows the seat to go back farther. I'm just
>shy of 6' tall, and have headroom problems in a lot of vehicles.

6'?  Ok, as I said, most current vehicles will fit short people...  :-)

>My
>wife's Mustang GT, for example ... I have to take the "gangsta" position
>to drive the thing, with the seat reclined to where I'm looking at the B
>pillar if I turn my head 90 degrees.

That's not a normal driving position?  Been that way in almost every
vehicle I've ever driven that had a rear window...

>Oh ... and if I didn't actually need a truck on a near daily basis ... I
>don't think I'd own one, at least not a full-size with a big V8. 15 city
>(on a good day) / 17 hwy is a bit much to take these days.

If you have to drive it much, I'd agree.  I'm kinda hoping that by the time
I need to replace the Jeep, they'll have the Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles,
or at least hydrogen conversion kits for internal combustion engine
vehicles, available.  The technology was developed over 15 years ago, and
it worked.  Set up a hydrogen production system in your garage (the one 15
years or more ago was about the size of a washer-dryer pair), power it with
solar cells on the roof, and drive for free.

The test vehicle I saw on the TV show was a Ford Granada that had been
converted to burn hydrogen (similar to a propane conversion done on lots of
farm vehicles).  It used a tank with a nickel alloy in it, in granule form.
 Hydrogen would alloy with it (hydrogen acts as a metal) if you cooled it
slightly (cold water), and would come out of alloy if you warmed it (engine
coolant circulated around the tank).  Tank was about as big as a full-size
spare, and held enough H2 to get the car a bit over 100 miles before a
refill.  For a typical commuter vehicle, this is plenty...as you will be
hooking it up to refill it overnight in your garage (D.C. area is not full
of typical commuters BTW ;-).  Not so good for long trips though...at least
not until there are "hydrogen stations" in as many places as you can get
diesel.

Upsides:
 o low, or no, emissions...certainly less than with gas.  You get a few NOx
compounds if you burn the H2 in air in an internal combustion engine...the
heat and pressure in the cylinders forms them.  There aren't any SOx
compounds though, or CO, or the other nasties, and everything produced is
handled by current emission control systems.  What's left is water.
Suicides will have to find another method than running the car in a closed
garage...

 o free fuel if you can make electricity free (solar cells, water wheel,
wind generator, etc.

 o much safer in a crash than gas...a tank like the Granada's was shot with
a rifle while sitting next to a lit torch...result? A small blue flame
flickering out the hole in the tank.  Result with propane?  Violent
explosion that destroyed the tank and threw it dozens of feet into the air.
 Result with gasoline?  An explosion and a spreading puddle of flaming fuel
slowly melting the tank.

 o less crud in the engine (from fuel with no carbon) should result in
longer life and less maintenance.

 o We can tell OPEC and EXXON to pound sand...

Downsides:

 o several hours to refill the tank unless you replace the granules with
saturated ones.

 o Refills not available on every major street corner...yet.

 o Mechanics not familiar with the system...yet.

 o It cost about $10,000 to convert the Granada, and another $10,000 for
the electrolysis fuel producer and solar cells (1980-something dollars),
but that was for a prototype, production units of the car shouldn't cost
any more than a current car does, and the fuel production unit would be
much cheaper too.

 o The coolant circulation to release the fuel in the tank will mean that
air cooled engines, like most current Harleys, will be problematic.  Water
cooled bikes shouldn't have a problem.  Fuel tanks will very likely follow
the V-Rod model, as the granules are heavy (the Granada's tank was about
200 lbs), and you will want the tank as low down as you can get it.

The above assumes that a better technology for storing the H2 won't be
figured out.  Personally I think it will.  Maybe a plastic that does the
same thing as the nickel alloy, but with faster uptake?  Save weight, speed
up refills...technology and science march on...


-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 11:12:23 2004
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:12:07 -0500
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, mike@XXXXXX,
   thomas Jordan <thomasajordan@XXXXXX>
From: Sean Jordan <eternity23@XXXXXX>
Subject: Woah - Bad Motorcycle Accident Pics (No Gore, Work Safe)

http://www.eccentricksportbikes.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=233

Yikes!!!

- Sean Jordan

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 11:12:38 2004
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:11:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: dan <dan@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: Tour Buses on the Toll Road/Greenway

On Thu, 13 May 2004, Wesleyan Hsu wrote:

> Are you sure they're not commuter buses? I've had to ride the Loudoun
> Commuter buses (which seem to be contracted tour buses) to and from DC for
> the past week. There's about 16 buses that run during rush hour. In the
> morning, they do stay in the left lane, since it's HOV and then they hop
> onto the airport lane at their first opportunity. I don't know how long this
> service has been running, but maybe these are many of the busses that you
> are referring to. If you're seeing lane drifting a lot, I'm sure the powers
> that be would like to know about it. I doubt anyone you talk to there will
> agree with you that the buses should move out of the HOV lane though.
>
> Wes Hsu

They could be commuter buses, all I know is they are the regular run of
the mill tour bus.  HOV use is fine, they are entitled to it.  However
there is no HOV lane on the Greenway.  That's the problem.  So is their
lane drifting.  Straight up, I think they drive like total assholes.  I
have had little problems with all the other commercial vehicles.  Most
seem to drive quite respectfully.  If anyone wants to shoot an email to
the vsp, the fairfax division is : vspdiv7@XXXXXX and they are
the ones that are supposed to handle 267.

Dan



From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 11:16:49 2004
From: bernescut@XXXXXX
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:16:23 -0400

snip
The above assumes that a better technology for storing the H2 won't be
figured out.  Personally I think it will.  Maybe a plastic that does the
same thing as the nickel alloy, but with faster uptake?  Save weight, speed
up refills...technology and science march on...


-- Mike B.
snip

Fascinating post on the hydrogen conversion.  I googled it and found this
thesis on converting scooters to hydrogen fuel
http://www.spinglass.net/scooters/
As well as several people selling the plans on Ebay :)

About insurance, I too, recommend State Farm, their prices were the best in
the area.  They also seem to ignore sport vs sedate and go strictly by
engine size; quoting the actual size may help here (my CBR has a 599 cc
engine thus falling below the 600 cc limit).  You will have to strongly
emphasize that you "only" want your bike insured, not your cars.  They will
tell you this isn't possible, tell them it is.  If they still refuse, find
another State Farm agent.  I live in a nice quiet neighborhood but this is
my third bike; my first was totalled in a parking lot incident (hit by an
idiot doing the big loop around the speed bump) the second was stolen.  I
simply couldn't afford to go out and replace all the plastic or get a new
bike so the extra coverage is essential to me, maybe not to others.

Cedric Bernescut
2000 CBR600F4
Annandale, VA

Get your drug-free boost:

http://tinyurl.com/zbgs

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 11:17:56 2004
From: "Custer, Carl" <Carl.Custer@XXXXXX>
To: "'DCCycles'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:19:56 -0400

Mike Touted:
"I filled up today and had 38MPG on the VFR this week."

[Carl]: Awww, "They don't make 'em like they used to."

My '80 GS 450E (RIP) got 60-50 mpg.
My '83 'Ceptor regularly gets 45 MPG (Sigma mileage, not Honda); 50 mpg
tooling around SE Ohio.
My '85 Sabre (700 cc) gets 40-45 mpg pushing a barn door windshield; 50 mpg
nekkid.
How much the fun grip is twisted also affects the mileage.  Aerodynamic drag
rises with the square of speed.  Ergo, if you visit WV (nudge, nudge, wink,
wink), drag at 70 MPH is four times that at 35 MPH.

[Honda Speculated]
"I guess you need combination of weight, friction & aerodynamic to get good
mpg. bikes got advantage on weight & friction but not too good on
aerodynamic (no roof). If bikes get better aerodynamic then it should get
better mpg. regular cars have generally good aerodynamic but sucks on weight
& friction. Looks like Honda Insight is good on all these 3 factors, but fat
dude won't get any good mpg?"

[Carl]: Yup, Eight grade science and high school physics.
Good to see someone paid attention :^).
Rolling resistance (tires) and friction (engine, drive train, and bearings)
are significant, but IIRC, aerodynamic drag is still the major force,
especially above 30 mph.
So, the big fat dude can pump up the tires and hug the tank (That's what I
do).

FWIW, The Vetter Quicksilver fairing (RIP) claimed a 10% reduction in drag
(& had great side pockets)

Carl in Bethesda
70 page digest reduced to 29 pages using macro that snips lines with ">>"
Who's vying for the quoting championship?

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 12:45:47 2004
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 06:54:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: Bike Night DC: May 23rd 2004
To: VFR <vfr@XXXXXX>, DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Cc: Charles Pena <cpena@XXXXXX>

MC Productions (Mark and Chuck) are pleased to annouce
the first Bike Night for 2004.

May 23, 2004
Carpool Bar and Grill, Clarendon, VA (4000 Fairfax
Drive)

4PM-8PM

Reserved Parking in the Front Lot

All Makes and Models welcome

BBQ by Rocklands

http://www.geocities.com/bikenight/




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2'
http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 13:03:21 2004
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:03:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Fish Flowers <fish@XXXXXX>
To: DC-Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Bike Night DC: May 23rd 2004
X-Virus-Checked: Checked

On Thu, 13 May 2004, Mark Kitchell wrote:

> MC Productions (Mark and Chuck) are pleased to annouce the first Bike
> Night for 2004.

Ah, hell, you would be doing this just as I'm heading down to Bragg for a
couple of weeks.

Fish.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 13:15:52 2004
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 07:22:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R  - $1800
To: Sean Steele <sean@XXXXXX>, DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Not an ebay auction


--- Sean Steele <sean@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Time to report this guy to ebay mebbe?
> -Sean
>
> Mark Kitchell wrote:
>
> > Vin # after the bike?
> >
> > No come on!
> >
> >
> > --- mark hermes <mark_hermes2001@XXXXXX> wrote:
> >
> >>Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 03:42:09 -0700 (PDT)
> >>From: mark hermes <mark_hermes2001@XXXXXX>
> >>Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R  - $1800
> >>To: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
> >>
> >>Ok,
> >>i will send you the bike
> >>give me your name and address for shipping
> >>i will give you the vin# afther you will send the
> >>money
> >>
> >>best regards
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX> wrote:Hi
> >>Mark!
> >>
> >>Funny we have the same name! That means I can
> trust
> >>you right. WEll, sorry I have not been in touch
> >>sooner but I have been doing some research about
> >>insurance. I have been in a few accidents so its
> >>hard
> >>for me to get insurance. You know how that is with
> a
> >>fast bike and the police, right??
> >>
> >>Anyway, all I need before sending you the money is
> >>the
> >>VIN number from the bike. That way I can check on
> >>insurance before it gets here.
> >>
> >>Thanks
> >>
> >>
> >>--- mark hermes wrote:
> >>
> >>>Ok ,
> >>>Send me $1600 via westen union.
> >>>And give me your name and address for shipping ,
> i
> >>>am ready to send you the bike.
> >>>This is my western union detalies:
> >>>Mark Hermes
> >>>17 central circus
> >>>NW4 3AS
> >>>London
> >>>England
>





__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2'
http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 13:44:56 2004
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 13:45:10 -0400
To: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>, VFR <vfr@XXXXXX>,
   DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Bike Night DC: May 23rd 2004
Cc: Charles Pena <cpena@XXXXXX>

At 06:54 AM 5/13/04 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote:
>MC Productions (Mark and Chuck) are pleased to annouce
>the first Bike Night for 2004.
>
>May 23, 2004

Sorry, same day as the Cruz'n For Cancer ride...if that event is over in
time, maybe, otherwise, have fun!


-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 14:07:00 2004
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 14:07:41 -0400
To: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>, VFR <vfr@XXXXXX>,
   DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Bike Night DC: May 23rd 2004
Cc: Charles Pena <cpena@XXXXXX>

At 06:54 AM 5/13/04 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote:
>MC Productions (Mark and Chuck) are pleased to annouce
>the first Bike Night for 2004.
>
>May 23, 2004
>Carpool Bar and Grill, Clarendon, VA (4000 Fairfax

It's also the same day as the Shooter Dave Memorial Bike Show at Hooters of
Rockville, sponsored by ABATE of Maryland, Inc., Montgomery County Chapter.

Weekends are getting crowded now that it's warm out...

-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 16:06:29 2004
From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 16:06:18 EDT
Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

In a message dated 5/11/2004 10:23:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
omni@XXXXXX writes:

> You wrapped a strip of
>  cloth around each handlebar, and if you could ride up next to someone, and
>  grab their cloth  off, they were "shot down"

My version was to reach over and shut off the other bikes kill* switch.

But we did wear helmets......

*(engine cut off switch)


John.
PenguinBiker@XXXXXX

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 16:16:17 2004
From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 16:16:07 EDT
Subject: Re: HDI EFI
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

In a message dated 5/11/2004 11:24:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
omni@XXXXXX writes:

> there's a CPU running equations
>  or something, so that no matter how much you change the air flow into the
>  engine, it will always match it up with the proper amount of fuel, spark at
>  the right time, etc..

That should be the case.

>  If that's the case, why do you need to change the
>  "download" when you swap the air cleaner for one that flows better?

I expect to override the super lean condition caused by compliance with the
EPA. Resulting in more power so the air filter company can take credit.


John.
PenguinBiker@XXXXXX

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 16:21:09 2004
Subject: Honda news?
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 16:21:00 -0400
From: "Verde, Robert" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>
To: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Not reading as many industry mags as I should, I was wondering if anyone had heard of any future plans for Honda's CBR1100XX?

The reviews of the CBR1000 I've read indicate that it's the neatest thing since sliced bagels, but I was curious if Honda is planning a new model of the Blackbird to launch an attack on the top-end records held by 'Busas and ZX-12's?

Robert

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 16:29:45 2004
From: "W.S." <mobacc@XXXXXX>
To: "DC-Cycles" <DC-Cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: insurance loss rates for motorcycles?
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 16:29:30 -0400

Brian Roach roach@XXXXXX scribed:

Leon Begeman wrote:
> Why would anyone get full coverage insurance on a
> bike?  That just sounds like a really dumb idea to me.
>  Given the premium costs, it appears that the
> insurance companies think it's a really dumb idea as
> well.
Yup. What I've always done though is get liability and
fire/theft/vandalism. The one time I had a bike stolen from me, I was
VERY happy I had that coverage. It wasn't horribly expensive (nothing
approaching what full coverage is).
- Roach

As an afterthought, one year "uninsured motorists" and "underinsured
motorists" made their way on to my policy (very inexpensive).  Within 9 mos.
"unin." exercised for bike replacement.

Bill S. / DC
'99 VN750 > Arrived courtesy uninsured clause.
Join the AMA.  Help protect my riding fun.



From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 16:54:14 2004
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 16:50:39 -0400
From: Skip <skip@XXXXXX>
To: smart-tag@XXXXXX
Subject: Toll Not Paid

Hi!

It was a beautiful day last week, and I had to go from Herndon to the DEA, by
the Pentagon, to see my dad.  some paperwork for him had mistakenly been mailed
to my house.  I could have slogged up the Fairfax County Parkway to 95, but
wait, I have a smart Tag.

I mentioned it was a beautiful day, right?  Cause it really was.  this matters,
because since it was so nice out, I was riding my new-to-me 1985 Honda v65
Sabre.  She is a runnin' machine, if you know what I mean.  So I hop on the
bike, throw on my lid, and fire her up.  She's purring like a kitten...  well,
really more like a tiger, but I digress.

I enter the toll road through the toll gate at Centreville rd, passing through
the exact change/smart tag lane, holding the smart tag in the air with my left
hand, gingerly working the throttle with my right.  As I approach, the gate goes
up, the light turns green, and zzooooom!  I'm on my way.  I put the smart tag
back in my pocket.

At the main toll plaza, I plan on doing the same thing...  "the same thing"
being "using the smart tag".  So I'm in the "smart tag only" lanes, holding the
smart tag up with my left hand, steering and working the throttle with my right
hand.

Now, I know that this might seem like a very precarious position to be in, and I
can understand why you might think that, but let me assure you that it's not
that bad.  Bikes pretty much steer themselves if you let them, and if you're
gentle with the speed changes.

So here I am, rolling through the toll, and I see a light I've never seen
before...  it says, "Toll not paid"

"whafuh??", I say, hearing the bell going off indicating that I had just run the
toll.

"Well, heck.  This is weird", I say to myself.  Yes, I often talk to myself
while I'm riding.  Most motorcyclists do it, most of them don't talk about it,
but that's besides the point...

I make the rest of the trip uneventfully.  It's a fulgent day, the trees that
rich green of spring that is so unique to Virginia, the scent of honeysuckle
hanging in the air.

On the way home, I was thinking the the way I was holding the smart tag may have
contributed to it's lack of communication with the receiver in at the toll
booth.  I resolve to make sure I hold it correctly, with none of my digits on
the surface facing the antennae, oriented correctly, and tilted, as if it were
mounted to a car windshield.

Again, I assume my position, holding the smart tag out like cross, warding off
attacking vampires, and again I get the error, "toll not paid".

"man", I say out loud -- it's not like anyone can hear my, though.  "That's no
good!  I wonder if there's something wrong with my smart tag?"  "no," I answer
myself, "it worked when I got on the toll road.  No way it could have failed
between then and now" (referring to when I got onto the toll road at Centreville
road).

At this point, I'm getting concerned.  You see, I am not a scofflaw.  I pay my
toll every time I use the toll road.  The only times I've used the access lanes
have been when I have business at the airport...  like picking up my Mother in
law, or dropping off my sister for a flight, or purchasing gasoline from the
retailer there.

Well, I figure that at this stage of the game, there really isn't anything I can
do - what's passed is past - I'll just try it again at Centreville Road.  Lo and
behold, it works just fine at the Centreville road exit.

My question is this...   was I photographed during my inadvertent violations?
If I was, how do I take care of paying the toll, since the smart tag really
should have worked for me.

Well, I actually have two questions...   the second one is:  How can I keep this
from happening in the future?

thanks!

--skip

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 16:55:03 2004
From: <mjordan812@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Woah - Bad Motorcycle Accident Pics (No Gore, Work Safe)
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 16:54:56 -0400

> http://www.eccentricksportbikes.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=233

I was going to clip the wire on my Hyperlites so that they wouldn't blink all the time the brakes were activated.

Think that I'll leave them in blinky mode after this

Michael J.


From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 17:08:38 2004
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:08:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: Need Help Promoting Bike Night
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Cc: Charles Pena <cpena@XXXXXX>

DC Cycles:

I need some help promoting Bike Nights.  Specifically,
I need people to post flyers and cross post to other
Moto-related lists and messageboards.

For the flyer, there is a link on the web page to a
printable PDF.

If you can help please email me as to where you will
post and/or flyer.

Thanks

PS: All moto shops in the area are open game.  And the
web lists do not have to be DC-specific.

Thanks

--- Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX> wrote:
> MC Productions (Mark and Chuck) are pleased to
> annouce
> the first Bike Night for 2004.
>
> May 23, 2004
> Carpool Bar and Grill, Clarendon, VA (4000 Fairfax
> Drive)
>
> 4PM-8PM
>
> Reserved Parking in the Front Lot
>
> All Makes and Models welcome
>
> BBQ by Rocklands
>
> http://www.geocities.com/bikenight/
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2'
>
http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861
>
>





__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2'
http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 17:18:53 2004
Subject: RE: Woah - Bad Motorcycle Accident Pics (No Gore, Work Safe)
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 17:18:42 -0400
From: "Verde, Robert" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>
To: <mjordan812@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Good freaking gravy!

I really must get some longer mirrors, I can't easily see past my elbows, and I'm afraid I've fallen into the bad habit of not keeping an eye on traffic approaching from the rear.  I'll sure remember that photo, though...  Glad to hear he survived.

That's a sobering photo.

Robert


-----Original Message-----
From: mjordan812@XXXXXX [mailto:mjordan812@XXXXXX]
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 4:55 PM
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Woah - Bad Motorcycle Accident Pics (No Gore, Work Safe)


> http://www.eccentricksportbikes.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=233

I was going to clip the wire on my Hyperlites so that they wouldn't blink all the time the brakes were activated.

Think that I'll leave them in blinky mode after this

Michael J.



From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 17:23:46 2004
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 17:20:34 -0400
To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch

At 04:06 PM 5/13/04 EDT, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote:
>In a message dated 5/11/2004 10:23:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>omni@XXXXXX writes:
>
>> You wrapped a strip of
>>  cloth around each handlebar, and if you could ride up next to someone, and
>>  grab their cloth  off, they were "shot down"
>
>My version was to reach over and shut off the other bikes kill* switch.

We couldn't afford bikes with motors...best we could do was to use
clothespins to put playing cards on the forks and let them get hit by the
spokes to make engine sounds as you pedaled.

-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 18:12:33 2004
From: "W.S." <mobacc@XXXXXX>
To: "DC-Cycles" <DC-Cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 18:12:22 -0400

From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>

. . .snip



Maybe one who understands risk?  Maybe one who understands that new

experiences are valuable for kids and that this gain can offset some

reasonable risk?  That it's better that the kid ride with a careful parent

than with an inexperienced friend (and that if they want to ride, they will

find a way somehow?).



People in this country (at least) are terrible at evaluating risk.  What's

familiar is generally seen as "safe", and what's unusual is often seen as

"dangerous", regardless of the actual risk factors.  The ride to the

airport in the taxi is usually more dangerous than the airplane flight, but

most people happily get into the cab, and are nervous in the airplane

anyway



. . .snip

Mike B.



********

I do a fair amount of swing-ballroom dancing and generally change in/out of
dance/riding gear onsite.  Occasional comments are about 75/25 "Shawzy"
(shock-awe/are you crazy?) / "Cool" (other quasi-riders, mostly, some given
the DCC clue).

      For the former it's tempting for me to launch into "the injury rate
from dancing is probably greater per mile than motorcycling" or some such
(and there are a myriad of major-to-minor physical/social risks involved in
showing up on a given dance floor).  Haven't launched yet, being somewhat
patronizing -- before people comment about others' risktaking (such comment
often envious) they'd best consider the rewards involved.

      Whatever paths we choose, we think about it (or perish):  It's about
risk/reward assessment.  Those that question the risks we take, without
recognizing our rewards, are insulting our intelligence.  Our duty, as being
enlightened, is to appropriately expand their horizons.  "The greatest of
all secrets is knowing how to reduce the force of envy" - Cardinal de Retz,
"Memoirs" .



Bill S. / DC

'99 VN750 > At risk.  Timely maintenance, great destinations my reward.

Join the AMA.  Help protect my riding fun.






From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 18:22:07 2004
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 12:23:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: Plastic Painting
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Who paints fairings around here?






__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2'
http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 20:05:31 2004
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 17:05:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: insurance loss rates for motorcycles?
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

wasn't lister stephen harris an adjuster?  he'd probably be
the best source on this list for leads....



--- Lurking <lurking444@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Hello again,
>
> Your friendly neighborhood lurker here again.  I've been
> thinking about purchasing a new
> motorcycle and I called around to 3 insurance companies
> to get rate quotes on some of the
> bikes I'm considering.  The premiums were awfully high
> (most over $3,000 per year) for full
> coverage.  I don't have a perfect record, but it's not
> terrible either.  I'm 25 and have
> one ticket, one auto collision claim, and one
> comprehensive auto claim in the past 3 years.
>  Anyway, I'm not going to ask about how to get a lower
> rate because I know by this time
> next year the two insurance claims will drop off my "3
> year record" and the rates will be
> much more reasonable (which is why I'm probably going to
> wait until this winter to buy my
> new bike).
>
> What I'm wondering is if anyone knows a source for the
> "multiplier" that insurance
> companies use for each individual bike model.  I could
> use this to see which motorcycle
> model will have the best and worst effect on insurance
> premiums and that would aid my
> decision process.  I spent hours on the phone with the
> insurance companies to get quotes
> for only a select few bikes.  If I had the loss rate for
> each model it would likely
> translate into the effect that the model of motorcycle
> has on one's insurance premium.
> This would be very useful information for consumers,
> although I'm sure the manufacters of
> the "high risk" bikes would do their darndest to keep a
> lid on such risk data (at least for
> consumers).
>
> I'm not buying a super-sport even.  I'm looking a some
> naked sportbikes (or sport touring),
> such as the Honda 919, Yamaha FZ1/FZ6, and Aprilia Tuono.
>  It seems that insurance
> companies rate most sport bikes the same, whether they
> are true supersports (R1, GSX1000,
> Ninja 9R) or more relaxed bikes like the ones I'm
> considering (not that the ones I'm
> considering aren't really powerful and fast).  It really
> is interesting, along with
> frustrating, to learn more about how insurance companies
> rate individuals and their
> vehicles.
>
> -Kipp.





__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2'
http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 20:44:15 2004
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 20:31:39 -0400
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Bruce Brownlee <brownlee_b@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Re: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R  - $1800

maybe its time to just put it to bed.....

i find humor in the fact that this exact same conversation is probably
going on on the other side of the pond.

and a bit of irony that mark would probably be the first to howl (and
may have in the past if memory serves me) for someone posting what
was expected to be a private communication on a public list.

very, very bad netiquette.

on the upside, since i can skip over the threads on ebay fraud,
politically correct cars to own and whether society has a duty to
protect kids from their parents, i manage to get thru the daily
digest in a few seconds.....

someone unsub me from "dc-busybodies" and resub me to "dc-cycles"
please.....

doesnt anyone ride anymore?

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 21:19:26 2004
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 18:19:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R  - $1800
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX


--- Bruce Brownlee <brownlee_b@XXXXXX> wrote:
> on the upside, since i can skip over the threads on ebay fraud,
> politically correct cars to own and whether society has a duty to
> protect kids from their parents, i manage to get thru the daily
> digest in a few seconds.....
>
> someone unsub me from "dc-busybodies" and resub me to "dc-cycles"
> please.....

Maybe there should be a second list: dc-cycles-chat ;-)

It was raining and cold yesterday and drizzly and cold today (mid 40's).
I'm spending bucks on fixing the gixxer with my eye on an upgrade
depending on Aki's friend ;-)

>
> doesnt anyone ride anymore?
>

I'd like to. We went up to Boulder Mountain Park to Flagstaff Point,
unfortunately in Rita's car :-( I think we can see Kansas from there and
that was just a foothill (6800 feet). We were able to see downtown Denver.
I'm planning a trip down to Las Vegas to visit my brother. I'll have to
find something a little more round-about though :-)

Carl


=====
02 Harley FXSTI
95 Suzuki GSXR 750W
76 Honda Chopper (in progress)




__________________________________
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Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2'
http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 22:14:05 2004
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 22:13:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: dan <dan@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Toll Not Paid

On Thu, 13 May 2004, Skip wrote:

> Hi!
>
> My question is this...   was I photographed during my inadvertent violations?
> If I was, how do I take care of paying the toll, since the smart tag really
> should have worked for me.
>
> Well, I actually have two questions...   the second one is:  How can I keep this
> from happening in the future?
>
> thanks!
>
> --skip
>

I wouldn't lose sleep over it.  I hear some people go for the 50% off
discount for bikes(two wheels vs four).  Those smartags are "flakey".
Many report running through time and time again.  There have even been
some "tricks" posted on this list.

If you want it to work, you need to mount it on a windscreen or something
that has some space behind it.  Holding it isn't going to work all the
time.  You also need to go DIRECTLY under the sensor. Check out the
archives, I have posted some questions on making it work correctly.

Dan

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 22:54:34 2004
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 22:54:22 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
From: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
Reply-To: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
To: dan <dan@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Toll Not Paid



-----Original Message-----
From: dan <dan@XXXXXX>

On Thu, 13 May 2004, Skip wrote:

> Hi!
>
> My question is this...   was I photographed during my inadvertent violations?
> If I was, how do I take care of paying the toll, since the smart tag really
> should have worked for me.
>
> Well, I actually have two questions...   the second one is:  How can I keep this
> from happening in the future?
>
> thanks!
>
> --skip
>

I wouldn't lose sleep over it.  I hear some people go for the 50% off
discount for bikes(two wheels vs four).  Those smartags are "flakey".
Many report running through time and time again.  There have even been
some "tricks" posted on this list.

If you want it to work, you need to mount it on a windscreen or something
that has some space behind it.  Holding it isn't going to work all the
time.  You also need to go DIRECTLY under the sensor. Check out the
archives, I have posted some questions on making it work correctly.

Dan

----

A VSP officer pulled me over for a little chat on this very subject last fall.  Eastbound at the main plaza, Smart-Tag didn't register.  He saw the tag, I said it didn't register, he said you just can't blow through the toll gate, I said it usually works just fine, velcroed to my windshield.  We seemed to be at an impasse.  He let me go.

FWIW, I have a lot less trouble with my E-ZPass on the bike.  Odd, since I thought they were basically the same technology.  Shrug.





Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org
95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour]

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 00:39:52 2004
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 00:39:20 -0400
From: Brian Roach <roach@XXXXXX>
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R  - $1800


Bruce Brownlee wrote:
>>someone unsub me from "dc-busybodies" and resub me to "dc-cycles"
>>please.....

Carl Schelin wrote:
> Maybe there should be a second list: dc-cycles-chat ;-)

There is. Er, well there was in ... 2001?

Remarkably, after we created that list a couple years ago, the same
people who don't post and then often complain that there's not enough
moto content ... still didn't post. Then everyone came back to the main
list, and we all lived happily ever after :)

- Roach


From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 00:46:45 2004
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 21:46:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R  - $1800
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX


--- Brian Roach <roach@XXXXXX> wrote:
>
> Bruce Brownlee wrote:
> >>someone unsub me from "dc-busybodies" and resub me to "dc-cycles"
> >>please.....
>
> Carl Schelin wrote:
> > Maybe there should be a second list: dc-cycles-chat ;-)
>
> There is. Er, well there was in ... 2001?
>
> Remarkably, after we created that list a couple years ago, the same
> people who don't post and then often complain that there's not enough
> moto content ... still didn't post. Then everyone came back to the main
> list, and we all lived happily ever after :)
>

Well, I was kidding since it was discussed last year as well.

> - Roach
>

Carl


=====
02 Harley FXSTI
95 Suzuki GSXR 750W
76 Honda Chopper (in progress)




__________________________________
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Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2'
http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 00:57:36 2004
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 00:57:26 -0400
From: Brian Roach <roach@XXXXXX>
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R  - $1800

Carl Schelin wrote:

> Well, I was kidding since it was discussed last year as well.

:DOH!:

Well ... how about those Honda's? Think they'll take the pennant?

:D

- Roach



From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 02:13:48 2004
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 20:04:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Re: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R  - $1800
To: Bruce Brownlee <brownlee_b@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX

Sorry your dick got caught on the bedpost this
morning.  This is completely relevant to this list as
Honda posted this ad a few days ago and its all about
avoiding motorcycle related scams in DC .  I am glad
you are worried about netiquette with this great guy I
have been conversing with...

PS: I think the Nigerian Minister of Oil has been
trying to contact you recently.  Its pretty hush hush
so make sure to keep your emails private.




--- Bruce Brownlee <brownlee_b@XXXXXX> wrote:
> maybe its time to just put it to bed.....
>
> i find humor in the fact that this exact same
> conversation is probably
> going on on the other side of the pond.
>
> and a bit of irony that mark would probably be the
> first to howl (and
> may have in the past if memory serves me) for
> someone posting what
> was expected to be a private communication on a
> public list.
>
> very, very bad netiquette.
>
> on the upside, since i can skip over the threads on
> ebay fraud,
> politically correct cars to own and whether society
> has a duty to
> protect kids from their parents, i manage to get
> thru the daily
> digest in a few seconds.....
>
> someone unsub me from "dc-busybodies" and resub me
> to "dc-cycles"
> please.....
>
> doesnt anyone ride anymore?
>





__________________________________
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Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2'
http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 07:39:51 2004
From: "rich hall" <richallmc@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Toll Not Paid
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 07:27:50 -0400

I was pulled over at midnight on a weeknight once when the Smarttag didn't
register.  He didn't mention I was doing about 65.
EZ Pass makes you slow to about 5mph, what a pain.  Before I had my own, I
used to borrow my folks, mom said she got a notice about me going too fast
through the toll.

>From: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
>Reply-To: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
>To: dan <dan@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
>Subject: Re: Toll Not Paid
>Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 22:54:22 -0400 (GMT-04:00)

>A VSP officer pulled me over for a little chat on this very subject last
>fall.  Eastbound at the main plaza, Smart-Tag didn't register.  He saw the
>tag, I said it didn't register, he said you just can't blow through the
>toll gate, I said it usually works just fine, velcroed to my windshield.
>We seemed to be at an impasse.  He let me go.
>
>FWIW, I have a lot less trouble with my E-ZPass on the bike.  Odd, since I
>thought they were basically the same technology.  Shrug.

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself with the new version of MSN Messenger! Download today -
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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 07:54:25 2004
From: <mjordan812@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Re: Toll Not Paid
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 7:54:18 -0400

> FWIW, I have a lot less trouble with my E-ZPass on the bike.  Odd, since I thought they were basically the same technology.  Shrug.

It all depends on how they adjust their sensing loops. When you hit the first loop, it triggers a query pulse from the overhead transmitter. If it sees a valid tag, you get a green light. If it doesn't, you get a red light when you hit the second (exit) loop.

They never seem to have a problem with the sensitivity of the exit loops, but they do have a problem with the sensitivity of the entrance loop.

It's not that they didn't read your tag, it's that they didn't even try to read it.

Michael J.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 08:01:39 2004
From: <adamme1@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Re: Toll Not Paid
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 8:01:31 -0400


also, the transponders have batteries in them.  Mine wouldn't read any more and I had to go to their office and get another one from them.  They said that the average life expectancy of the transponders is about 2 years then the battery dies and can't be read.  If you've had it for two or more years, it's possible that it's time to get a new one.

-aki

>
> From: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
> Date: 2004/05/13 Thu PM 10:54:22 EDT
> To: dan <dan@XXXXXX>,  dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> Subject: Re: Toll Not Paid
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dan <dan@XXXXXX>
>
> On Thu, 13 May 2004, Skip wrote:
>
> > Hi!
> >
> > My question is this...   was I photographed during my inadvertent violations?
> > If I was, how do I take care of paying the toll, since the smart tag really
> > should have worked for me.
> >
> > Well, I actually have two questions...   the second one is:  How can I keep this
> > from happening in the future?
> >
> > thanks!
> >
> > --skip
> >
>
> I wouldn't lose sleep over it.  I hear some people go for the 50% off
> discount for bikes(two wheels vs four).  Those smartags are "flakey".
> Many report running through time and time again.  There have even been
> some "tricks" posted on this list.
>
> If you want it to work, you need to mount it on a windscreen or something
> that has some space behind it.  Holding it isn't going to work all the
> time.  You also need to go DIRECTLY under the sensor. Check out the
> archives, I have posted some questions on making it work correctly.
>
> Dan
>
> ----
>
> A VSP officer pulled me over for a little chat on this very subject last fall.  Eastbound at the main plaza, Smart-Tag didn't register.  He saw the tag, I said it didn't register, he said you just can't blow through the toll gate, I said it usually works just fine, velcroed to my windshield.  We seemed to be at an impasse.  He let me go.
>
> FWIW, I have a lot less trouble with my E-ZPass on the bike.  Odd, since I thought they were basically the same technology.  Shrug.
>
>
>
>
>
> Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org
> 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour]
>
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 08:17:27 2004
From: <adamme1@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Re: Toll Not Paid
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 8:17:20 -0400

If you're having to slow down to 5mph, there's probably
something wrong with the tag (or it's positioning).  We routinely go through them at 50+mph and they're always read.

-aki

>
> From: "rich hall" <richallmc@XXXXXX>
> Date: 2004/05/14 Fri AM 07:27:50 EDT
> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> Subject: Re: Toll Not Paid
>
> I was pulled over at midnight on a weeknight once when the Smarttag didn't
> register.  He didn't mention I was doing about 65.
> EZ Pass makes you slow to about 5mph, what a pain.  Before I had my own, I
> used to borrow my folks, mom said she got a notice about me going too fast
> through the toll.
>
> >From: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
> >Reply-To: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
> >To: dan <dan@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> >Subject: Re: Toll Not Paid
> >Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 22:54:22 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
>
> >A VSP officer pulled me over for a little chat on this very subject last
> >fall.  Eastbound at the main plaza, Smart-Tag didn't register.  He saw the
> >tag, I said it didn't register, he said you just can't blow through the
> >toll gate, I said it usually works just fine, velcroed to my windshield.
> >We seemed to be at an impasse.  He let me go.
> >
> >FWIW, I have a lot less trouble with my E-ZPass on the bike.  Odd, since I
> >thought they were basically the same technology.  Shrug.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Express yourself with the new version of MSN Messenger! Download today -
> it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
>
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 08:35:48 2004
Reply-To: "Louis Caplan" <louis-mc@XXXXXX>
From: "Louis Caplan" <louis-mc@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Re: Toll Not Paid
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 08:36:26 -0400

   >  EZ Pass makes you slow to about 5mph, what a pain.  Before I had my own, I
   >  used to borrow my folks, mom said she got a notice about me going too fast
   >  through the toll.

Depends on which EZPass Location.  New Jersey is adding high speed EZPass lanes to the NJ Turnpike.  55 mph at the northern end.  The southern end looks like it'll be in operation soon.   So higher limits are available.  But they are separated from the "normal" toll lanes, and have walkways above/below them so people (Toll takers, etc) don't walk in that area.  The other toll lanes are near stopped cars and possibly people walking, which is why I think they have the lower limits.

Louis


"Admiral" Louis Caplan   1998 Kawasaki Concours    Fairfax, VA
Please consider helping me support the Pediatric Brain Tumor Foundation
http://www.geocities.com/nighthawk700/rideforkids.htm

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 08:37:44 2004
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 08:37:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: dan <dan@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Toll Not Paid

On Thu, 13 May 2004, Paul Wilson wrote:

> A VSP officer pulled me over for a little chat on this very subject last
> fall.  Eastbound at the main plaza, Smart-Tag didn't register.  He saw
> the tag, I said it didn't register, he said you just can't blow through
> the toll gate, I said it usually works just fine, velcroed to my
> windshield.  We seemed to be at an impasse.  He let me go.
>

There is not a chance in hell it would stand up in court, that's why he
let you go.  Everyone (judges Included) knows that they work most of the
time and flake out sometimes.  Signs say no backing up, what are you to
do?  Guess you could say you planned to mail them their damn $.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 08:38:17 2004
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 08:37:27 -0400
From: Tom <tdeboeser@XXXXXX>
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Honda news?

One industry source says yes.  But I've been hearing rumors about new BB
and the SuperHawk for 3 years now.

http://www.motorcycledaily.com/20february04_cbr1100rr.htm

 From a '00 artical:

http://www.motorcycledaily.com/21july00cbr1300xx.html


Tom de '98 VTR


Verde, Robert wrote:

>Not reading as many industry mags as I should, I was wondering if anyone had heard of any future plans for Honda's CBR1100XX?
>
>The reviews of the CBR1000 I've read indicate that it's the neatest thing since sliced bagels, but I was curious if Honda is planning a new model of the Blackbird to launch an attack on the top-end records held by 'Busas and ZX-12's?
>
>Robert
>
>
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 09:11:30 2004
From: "rich hall" <richallmc@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Re: Toll Not Paid
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 09:11:22 -0400

Noticed this last weekend, a welcome addition.
Aki, I'm not doing 5mph by choice, it's the posted speed limit and you just
about have to do that to see that the toll is paid.  Last weekend we were in
a rental van, you're not suppose to use a car that's not registered to the
tag, so I didn't feeling like breaking 2 rules.  I don't want to lose the EZ
Pass, I don't know how many warnings they give.  But looking at the suckers
waiting to "pay" the toll I'm sooooo glad I have the EZ Pass for the 5-10
times a yr I use it.

>From: "Louis Caplan" <louis-mc@XXXXXX>
>Reply-To: "Louis Caplan" <louis-mc@XXXXXX>
>To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
>Subject: Re: Re: Toll Not Paid
>Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 08:36:26 -0400
>
>    >  EZ Pass makes you slow to about 5mph, what a pain.  Before I had my
>own, I
>    >  used to borrow my folks, mom said she got a notice about me going
>too fast
>    >  through the toll.
>
>Depends on which EZPass Location.  New Jersey is adding high speed EZPass
>lanes to the NJ Turnpike.  55 mph at the northern end.  The southern end
>looks like it'll be in operation soon.   So higher limits are available.
>But they are separated from the "normal" toll lanes, and have walkways
>above/below them so people (Toll takers, etc) don't walk in that area.  The
>other toll lanes are near stopped cars and possibly people walking, which
>is why I think they have the lower limits.
>
>Louis
>
>
>"Admiral" Louis Caplan   1998 Kawasaki Concours    Fairfax, VA
>Please consider helping me support the Pediatric Brain Tumor Foundation
>http://www.geocities.com/nighthawk700/rideforkids.htm
>

_________________________________________________________________
Watch LIVE baseball games on your computer with MLB.TV, included with MSN
Premium! http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200439ave/direct/01/

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 09:25:36 2004
From: <adamme1@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Re: Toll Not Paid
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 9:25:29 -0400


>
> From: "rich hall" <richallmc@XXXXXX>
> Date: 2004/05/14 Fri AM 09:11:22 EDT
> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> Subject: Re: Re: Toll Not Paid
>
> Noticed this last weekend, a welcome addition.
> Aki, I'm not doing 5mph by choice, it's the posted speed limit and you just
> about have to do that to see that the toll is paid.  Last weekend we were in
> a rental van, you're not suppose to use a car that's not registered to the
> tag, so I didn't feeling like breaking 2 rules.  I don't want to lose the EZ
> Pass, I don't know how many warnings they give.  But looking at the suckers
> waiting to "pay" the toll I'm sooooo glad I have the EZ Pass for the 5-10
> times a yr I use it.
>

I'm referring to "Smart Tag", Virginias bastardized version of the EZ Pass...

I'm specifically referring to the 50 cent toll plaza on the toll road.  I go through there a minimum of twice a day, every day during the work week, and I absolutely never see anyone going through the two left most lanes at 5mph.  The *slowest* I ever see anyone going through is maybe 40mph.
Even at 50mph, if it doesn't read, you'll know well before you pass the light.

I don't know about not being able to use your EZ Pass in another vehicle. It's just a substitute for money.  I was told by the Smart Tag folks at their office, (when I wanted to know what the procedure was for getting a third pass for our daughters car), that until we receive the third one, just use one from one of the other cars.  I specifically mentioned using one in a rental, and they looked at me like I was from another planet.  One even told me, "As long as you've got money on Smart Tag, what difference what car it's being used in?".

All they want is your bling bling...they don't care what car it's attached to.

-aki

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 09:31:21 2004
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 09:29:44 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
From: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
Reply-To: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
To: adamme1@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Re: Toll Not Paid



-----Original Message-----
From: adamme1@XXXXXX


I don't know about not being able to use your EZ Pass in another vehicle. It's just a substitute for money.  I was told by the Smart Tag folks at their office, (when I wanted to know what the procedure was for getting a third pass for our daughters car), that until we receive the third one, just use one from one of the other cars.  I specifically mentioned using one in a rental, and they looked at me like I was from another planet.  One even told me, "As long as you've got money on Smart Tag, what difference what car it's being used in?".

All they want is your bling bling...they don't care what car it's attached to.

-aki

------

I'm not sure this is entirely accurate.  On E-ZPass, at least, I was under the impression that if your tag doesn't register for whatever reason they take a picture of your plate.  That way they match up the tag # with the E-ZPass and dun your account manually.





Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org
95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour]

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 09:57:04 2004
From: "rich hall" <richallmc@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Re: Toll Not Paid
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 09:56:56 -0400

Changing vehicles is in the rules for EZ Pass.  Don't know why.  Mom is a
stickler for rules, she put me on their pass because of this.
Back when I commuted on the toll road I'd be upset if you broke at all for
the plaza.  They'll pick up well over the posted 35, I've heard.
EZ Pass's indicator for tolls being paid is a lot closer to the both,
therefore you don't have as long to see it.

>From: <adamme1@XXXXXX>
>To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
>Subject: Re: Re: Toll Not Paid
>Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 9:25:29 -0400
> >
>I'm referring to "Smart Tag", Virginias bastardized version of the EZ
>Pass...
>
>I'm specifically referring to the 50 cent toll plaza on the toll road.  I
>go through there a minimum of twice a day, every day during the work week,
>and I absolutely never see anyone going through the two left most lanes at
>5mph.  The *slowest* I ever see anyone going through is maybe 40mph.
>Even at 50mph, if it doesn't read, you'll know well before you pass the
>light.
>
>I don't know about not being able to use your EZ Pass in another vehicle.
>It's just a substitute for money.  I was told by the Smart Tag folks at
>their office, (when I wanted to know what the procedure was for getting a
>third pass for our daughters car), that until we receive the third one,
>just use one from one of the other cars.  I specifically mentioned using
>one in a rental, and they looked at me like I was from another planet.  One
>even told me, "As long as you've got money on Smart Tag, what difference
>what car it's being used in?".
>
>All they want is your bling bling...they don't care what car it's attached
>to.

_________________________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 10:17:09 2004
Subject: Seizing the moment.lunch at Carlyle Grnad Shirlington 12:10PM today
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 10:21:15 -0400
From: "Julian Halton" <julian@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>


I am heading out to Shirlington for my weekly lunch with the friendly
barkeeps of Carlisle Grand. Anyone is welcome to join me.

Cheers all and if anyone is doing some riding this weekend and does not
mind company..let me know


-----Original Message-----
From: adamme1@XXXXXX [mailto:adamme1@XXXXXX]
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 9:25 AM
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Re: Toll Not Paid


>
> From: "rich hall" <richallmc@XXXXXX>
> Date: 2004/05/14 Fri AM 09:11:22 EDT
> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> Subject: Re: Re: Toll Not Paid
>
> Noticed this last weekend, a welcome addition.
> Aki, I'm not doing 5mph by choice, it's the posted speed limit and you

> just about have to do that to see that the toll is paid.  Last weekend

> we were in a rental van, you're not suppose to use a car that's not
> registered to the tag, so I didn't feeling like breaking 2 rules.  I
> don't want to lose the EZ Pass, I don't know how many warnings they
> give.  But looking at the suckers waiting to "pay" the toll I'm sooooo

> glad I have the EZ Pass for the 5-10 times a yr I use it.
>

I'm referring to "Smart Tag", Virginias bastardized version of the EZ
Pass...

I'm specifically referring to the 50 cent toll plaza on the toll road.
I go through there a minimum of twice a day, every day during the work
week, and I absolutely never see anyone going through the two left most
lanes at 5mph.  The *slowest* I ever see anyone going through is maybe
40mph.
Even at 50mph, if it doesn't read, you'll know well before you pass the
light.

I don't know about not being able to use your EZ Pass in another
vehicle. It's just a substitute for money.  I was told by the Smart Tag
folks at their office, (when I wanted to know what the procedure was for
getting a third pass for our daughters car), that until we receive the
third one, just use one from one of the other cars.  I specifically
mentioned using one in a rental, and they looked at me like I was from
another planet.  One even told me, "As long as you've got money on Smart
Tag, what difference what car it's being used in?".

All they want is your bling bling...they don't care what car it's
attached to.

-aki




From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 10:17:34 2004
From: <adamme1@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Re: Toll Not Paid
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 10:17:26 -0400


>
> From: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
> Date: 2004/05/14 Fri AM 09:29:44 EDT
> To: adamme1@XXXXXX,  dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> Subject: Re: Re: Toll Not Paid
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: adamme1@XXXXXX
>
>
> I don't know about not being able to use your EZ Pass in another vehicle. It's just a substitute for money.  I was told by the Smart Tag folks at their office, (when I wanted to know what the procedure was for getting a third pass for our daughters car), that until we receive the third one, just use one from one of the other cars.  I specifically mentioned using one in a rental, and they looked at me like I was from another planet.  One even told me, "As long as you've got money on Smart Tag, what difference what car it's being used in?".
>
> All they want is your bling bling...they don't care what car it's attached to.
>
> -aki
>
> ------
>
> I'm not sure this is entirely accurate.  On E-ZPass, at least, I was under the impression that if your tag doesn't register for whatever reason they take a picture of your plate.  That way they match up the tag # with the E-ZPass and dun your account manually.
>
>

From Smart Tags FAQ:

What if I have more than one vehicle?

Each account can have an unlimited number of Smart Tags. You have two options: You can get extra mounting strips so you can move the Smart Tag between vehicles (as long as they have the same number of axles), or you can request an additional Smart Tag to be issued under your account. In this case, the security deposit (if applicable), the replenishment amount and the low balance level are all doubled. You may request additional Smart Tags using the online Additional Smart Tag Application Form.


and...

Can I switch my Smart Tag to a vehicle with a different number of axles than the vehicle initially registered in my Smart Tag account (i.e. to tow my boat)?

Your Smart Tag is programmed for a specific number of axles and can be used on any Toll Facility, which accepts Smart Tag as long as it is used on a vehicle with the same number of axles. Each Toll Facility has different rules for use by Smart Tag equipped vehicles that have greater (or fewer) axles than the Smart Tag is programmed for. Your best bet is to wrap your Smart Tag in aluminum foil, and pay cash in this circumstance as this solution will work on all Toll Facilities.

so, the only stipulation is that whatever vehicle you're using it on, must have the same number of axles.

Again, with EZ Pass, the rules may be different, but for
Smart Tag, as long as you have the same number of axles,
it's no big deal.

-aki


From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 10:36:12 2004
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 10:35:59 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
From: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
Reply-To: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
To: adamme1@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Re: Toll Not Paid



-----Original Message-----
From: adamme1@XXXXXX


Again, with EZ Pass, the rules may be different, but for
Smart Tag, as long as you have the same number of axles,
it's no big deal.

-aki

---------

Yes, the rules for E-ZPass are different, at least in Maryland, and you can't move it a vehicle that's not on your account.  When Virginia finally, at last, phases out the stand-alone Smart-Tag, the rules may be a-changing.  Not also that the E-ZPass rules may vary from state to state.

http://www.ezpassmd.com/static/terms/individual_terms.html

TAG USE
a) Tag Deposit. Cash or check customers must pay a deposit of $10 for each Tag. The deposit will be refunded when you close your Account and return the Tag unaltered and in good working condition as determined solely by E-ZPass. The Tag deposit is waived for customers who authorize Account replenishment via automatic charge to a credit card.
b) You may use the Tag only on the vehicle(s) specifically listed on your Application.
c) In accordance with the section titled "Violations" included herein, you must surrender the Tag immediately upon request.
d) When you use the Tag at any E-ZPass facility, you authorize E-ZPass to debit your Account for such use.
e) If you use the Tag on E-ZPass facilities other than E-ZPass facilities in Maryland, you are subject to the laws and regulations governing such use.
f) You must maintain a sufficient balance in your Account, and may not use the Tag or permit its use by others unless a sufficient balance is maintained.




Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org
95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour]

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 11:09:26 2004
Reply-To: "Patrick Carter" <dpc2@XXXXXX>
From: "Patrick Carter" <dpc2@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE FRAUD
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 11:08:19 -0400

With all the fraud talk latey I thought I would run this by you all.

Ok is this fishy to anyone?  I posted an ad to sell some pocket/mini bikes
on craigs list.  I get a responce from this guy, but the way he wants to go
about the transaction is a little funny.  Since we are talking about a $2000
refund wired back to him and two $900 bikes, rather be safe than be out
$4000.

If he gives me a cashiers check how soon would a bank know if it is phoney?
Can cashiers check come back bounced since you have to have the cash the
order the check?

Opinions?  Suggestions?

thanks,
Pat

Read below:


Jerry,
I am a little confused.  Just to clarify.  You want 2 bikes for $1800.  Your
giving me $120 for running around.  Your client will be giving me a cashiers
check of $4000.  I cash the check.  Deduct $1920.  Meet your shipper with
the bikes and wire the remaining $2080 to you shipper using western union.

My name info is:
Patrick Carter
#### street name
Fairfax, VA  22033
703-###-####

Just out of curiosity, where is your location?  Is there a phone number I
can reach you incase there are any other question, concerns, or problems?
Can you please give me your clients information and your shippers
information?

Thanks,
Pat

----- Original Message -----
From: "jerry rogers" <jerryrgs@XXXXXX>
To: "Patrick Carter" <dpc2@XXXXXX>
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 3:02 AM
Subject: payment and trust


> Thanks for the mail i will buy the for $1800.Payment will be made via a
cachiers check of  $4000 by a client of mine in the state an amount oweing,
so  it can be cashed at any local outlets in your area.All i need from you
is  your full name and address including phone number so i can fax it to my
client. Pickup arrangement will be made by my shipper, so as soon as you
recieve payment you will deduct your actual amount and extra $120 for
running around and wired the rest of the funs to my shipper via western
union money transfer who will be at your location for the pick up. confirm
this and get back to me with neccessary details. I  await your response
> Jerry
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Patrick Carter" <dpc2@XXXXXX>
> Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:06:44 -0400
> To: "jerry rogers" <jerryrgs@XXXXXX>
> Subject: Re: 2004 mini sport bike / pocket bike - $900
>
> > Well call me and we can set up a time and place to make the transaction.
> > The price is the same as in the ad $900 each.  The condition is band
new.
> > No fuel has ever been added to the tank.  I have many in stock.  Just
let me
> > know what color you want.  I have Red, Blue, Black, Yellow and Silver.
> >
> > 703-906-2906
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Pat
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "jerry rogers" <jerryrgs@XXXXXX>
> > To: <dpc2@XXXXXX>
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:10 PM
> > Subject: 2004 mini sport bike / pocket bike - $900
> >
> >
> > > I Saw your advert and am highly interested in buying it, kindly get
back
> > to me with your last offering price and the present condition of the
above
> > mentioned item.
> > > Thanks.
> > > Rogers
> > > --
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Get your free email from http://mymail.dbzmail.com
> > >
> > > Powered by Outblaze
> > >
>
> --
> _______________________________________________
> Get your free email from http://mymail.dbzmail.com
>
> Powered by Outblaze
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 11:31:39 2004
From: <adamme1@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Re: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE FRAUD
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 11:31:28 -0400

Why would he want *you* to take more money than the selling price of the bikes and THEN send the excess somewhere else?

He's paying for the shipping, he can pay the shipper directly.

If he wants to send you money, have him send it to a recognized escrow site (like www.escrow.com).  That way,
he *can't* rip you off because the money (real money, not
some fake cashiers check/money order).

-aki

>
> From: "Patrick Carter" <dpc2@XXXXXX>
> Date: 2004/05/14 Fri AM 11:08:19 EDT
> To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
> Subject: Re: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE FRAUD
>
> With all the fraud talk latey I thought I would run this by you all.
>
> Ok is this fishy to anyone?  I posted an ad to sell some pocket/mini bikes
> on craigs list.  I get a responce from this guy, but the way he wants to go
> about the transaction is a little funny.  Since we are talking about a $2000
> refund wired back to him and two $900 bikes, rather be safe than be out
> $4000.
>
> If he gives me a cashiers check how soon would a bank know if it is phoney?
> Can cashiers check come back bounced since you have to have the cash the
> order the check?
>
> Opinions?  Suggestions?
>
> thanks,
> Pat
>
> Read below:
>
>
> Jerry,
> I am a little confused.  Just to clarify.  You want 2 bikes for $1800.  Your
> giving me $120 for running around.  Your client will be giving me a cashiers
> check of $4000.  I cash the check.  Deduct $1920.  Meet your shipper with
> the bikes and wire the remaining $2080 to you shipper using western union.
>
> My name info is:
> Patrick Carter
> #### street name
> Fairfax, VA  22033
> 703-###-####
>
> Just out of curiosity, where is your location?  Is there a phone number I
> can reach you incase there are any other question, concerns, or problems?
> Can you please give me your clients information and your shippers
> information?
>
> Thanks,
> Pat
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jerry rogers" <jerryrgs@XXXXXX>
> To: "Patrick Carter" <dpc2@XXXXXX>
> Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 3:02 AM
> Subject: payment and trust
>
>
> > Thanks for the mail i will buy the for $1800.Payment will be made via a
> cachiers check of  $4000 by a client of mine in the state an amount oweing,
> so  it can be cashed at any local outlets in your area.All i need from you
> is  your full name and address including phone number so i can fax it to my
> client. Pickup arrangement will be made by my shipper, so as soon as you
> recieve payment you will deduct your actual amount and extra $120 for
> running around and wired the rest of the funs to my shipper via western
> union money transfer who will be at your location for the pick up. confirm
> this and get back to me with neccessary details. I  await your response
> > Jerry
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Patrick Carter" <dpc2@XXXXXX>
> > Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:06:44 -0400
> > To: "jerry rogers" <jerryrgs@XXXXXX>
> > Subject: Re: 2004 mini sport bike / pocket bike - $900
> >
> > > Well call me and we can set up a time and place to make the transaction.
> > > The price is the same as in the ad $900 each.  The condition is band
> new.
> > > No fuel has ever been added to the tank.  I have many in stock.  Just
> let me
> > > know what color you want.  I have Red, Blue, Black, Yellow and Silver.
> > >
> > > 703-906-2906
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Pat
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "jerry rogers" <jerryrgs@XXXXXX>
> > > To: <dpc2@XXXXXX>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:10 PM
> > > Subject: 2004 mini sport bike / pocket bike - $900
> > >
> > >
> > > > I Saw your advert and am highly interested in buying it, kindly get
> back
> > > to me with your last offering price and the present condition of the
> above
> > > mentioned item.
> > > > Thanks.
> > > > Rogers
> > > > --
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Get your free email from http://mymail.dbzmail.com
> > > >
> > > > Powered by Outblaze
> > > >
> >
> > --
> > _______________________________________________
> > Get your free email from http://mymail.dbzmail.com
> >
> > Powered by Outblaze
> >
>
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 11:48:25 2004
From: Daniel <motorcycle@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE FRAUD
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 11:47:44 -0400

That's a scam. a  month later the check turns out to be phoney, and
the bank takes the money out of your account, and you're out your
two bikes and the money you sent him.

They try that a lot over at 2wf.com classifieds.. and a lot of people
post about getting ripped off that way..  usually it's from nigerians
running the scam, either from africa and sometimes england.
Accept cash or paypal or payment that can be cashed immediately
at a local bank that it has issued the check/money orders.


On Fri, 14 May 2004 11:08:19 -0400, "Patrick Carter" <dpc2@XXXXXX>
wrote:

>With all the fraud talk latey I thought I would run this by you all.
>
>Ok is this fishy to anyone?  I posted an ad to sell some pocket/mini bikes
>on craigs list.  I get a responce from this guy, but the way he wants to go
>about the transaction is a little funny.  Since we are talking about a $2000
>refund wired back to him and two $900 bikes, rather be safe than be out
>$4000.
>
>If he gives me a cashiers check how soon would a bank know if it is phoney?
>Can cashiers check come back bounced since you have to have the cash the
>order the check?
>
>Opinions?  Suggestions?
>
>thanks,
>Pat
>
>Read below:
>
>
>Jerry,
>I am a little confused.  Just to clarify.  You want 2 bikes for $1800.  Your
>giving me $120 for running around.  Your client will be giving me a cashiers
>check of $4000.  I cash the check.  Deduct $1920.  Meet your shipper with
>the bikes and wire the remaining $2080 to you shipper using western union.
>
>My name info is:
>Patrick Carter
>#### street name
>Fairfax, VA  22033
>703-###-####
>
>Just out of curiosity, where is your location?  Is there a phone number I
>can reach you incase there are any other question, concerns, or problems?
>Can you please give me your clients information and your shippers
>information?
>
>Thanks,
>Pat
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "jerry rogers" <jerryrgs@XXXXXX>
>To: "Patrick Carter" <dpc2@XXXXXX>
>Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 3:02 AM
>Subject: payment and trust
>
>
>> Thanks for the mail i will buy the for $1800.Payment will be made via a
>cachiers check of  $4000 by a client of mine in the state an amount oweing,
>so  it can be cashed at any local outlets in your area.All i need from you
>is  your full name and address including phone number so i can fax it to my
>client. Pickup arrangement will be made by my shipper, so as soon as you
>recieve payment you will deduct your actual amount and extra $120 for
>running around and wired the rest of the funs to my shipper via western
>union money transfer who will be at your location for the pick up. confirm
>this and get back to me with neccessary details. I  await your response
>> Jerry
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Patrick Carter" <dpc2@XXXXXX>
>> Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:06:44 -0400
>> To: "jerry rogers" <jerryrgs@XXXXXX>
>> Subject: Re: 2004 mini sport bike / pocket bike - $900
>>
>> > Well call me and we can set up a time and place to make the transaction.
>> > The price is the same as in the ad $900 each.  The condition is band
>new.
>> > No fuel has ever been added to the tank.  I have many in stock.  Just
>let me
>> > know what color you want.  I have Red, Blue, Black, Yellow and Silver.
>> >
>> > 703-906-2906
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Pat
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "jerry rogers" <jerryrgs@XXXXXX>
>> > To: <dpc2@XXXXXX>
>> > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:10 PM
>> > Subject: 2004 mini sport bike / pocket bike - $900
>> >
>> >
>> > > I Saw your advert and am highly interested in buying it, kindly get
>back
>> > to me with your last offering price and the present condition of the
>above
>> > mentioned item.
>> > > Thanks.
>> > > Rogers
>> > > --
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Get your free email from http://mymail.dbzmail.com
>> > >
>> > > Powered by Outblaze
>> > >
>>
>> --
>> _______________________________________________
>> Get your free email from http://mymail.dbzmail.com
>>
>> Powered by Outblaze
>>


From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 11:54:01 2004
From: Daniel <motorcycle@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: VA  MSF class question
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 11:53:24 -0400

I have a friend  and friend of a friend  (here in known as FOAF).

FOAF bought a motorcycle, and both want to take the class..

my friend said in the NOVA catalog that a learners permit was required
to be obtained within 30 days of the class start.

Is nova assuming a person has no liscense?   is the catalog right or
wrong?  is that  VA MSF policy now?    or is a drivers liscense or
MC learners permit equal when it comes to taking the class?

btw they are  in burke va.. is there a closer class that is less
booked?

 - Danny

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 11:57:35 2004
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 11:56:56 -0400
From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
To: dpc2@XXXXXX ("Patrick Carter"), dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE FRAUD
X-AOL-IP: 65.86.98.162

This is a scam.  I've seen it discussed on other lists before.  Cashiers checks can bounce and you will get hit with having to pay for it and be out two pocket bikes.  Don't fall for it.  Turn him into the place you posted the ad with as a possible fraud and have them check into it.  I'm sure there are other places that you can noitify also.

Scooter

In a message dated 5/14/2004 11:08:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time, dpc2@XXXXXX writes:

>
>
> With all the fraud talk latey I thought I would run this by you all.
>
> Ok is this fishy to anyone?  I posted an ad to sell some pocket/mini bikes
> on craigs list.  I get a responce from this guy, but the way he wants to go
> about the transaction is a little funny.  Since we are talking about a $2000
> refund wired back to him and two $900 bikes, rather be safe than be out
> $4000.
>
> If he gives me a cashiers check how soon would a bank know if it is phoney?
> Can cashiers check come back bounced since you have to have the cash the
> order the check?
>
> Opinions?  Suggestions?
>
> thanks,
> Pat
>
> Read below:
>
>
> Jerry,
> I am a little confused.  Just to clarify.  You want 2 bikes for $1800.  Your
> giving me $120 for running around.  Your client will be giving me a cashiers
> check of $4000.  I cash the check.  Deduct $1920.  Meet your shipper with
> the bikes and wire the remaining $2080 to you shipper using western union.
>
> My name info is:
> Patrick Carter
> #### street name
> Fairfax, VA  22033
> 703-###-####
>
> Just out of curiosity, where is your location?  Is there a phone number I
> can reach you incase there are any other question, concerns, or problems?
> Can you please give me your clients information and your shippers
> information?
>
> Thanks,
> Pat
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jerry rogers" <jerryrgs@XXXXXX>
> To: "Patrick Carter" <dpc2@XXXXXX>
> Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 3:02 AM
> Subject: payment and trust
>
>
> > Thanks for the mail i will buy the for $1800.Payment will be made via a
> cachiers check of  $4000 by a client of mine in the state an amount oweing,
> so  it can be cashed at any local outlets in your area.All i need from you
> is  your full name and address including phone number so i can fax it to my
> client. Pickup arrangement will be made by my shipper, so as soon as you
> recieve payment you will deduct your actual amount and extra $120 for
> running around and wired the rest of the funs to my shipper via western
> union money transfer who will be at your location for the pick up. confirm
> this and get back to me with neccessary details. I  await your response
> > Jerry
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Patrick Carter" <dpc2@XXXXXX>
> > Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:06:44 -0400
> > To: "jerry rogers" <jerryrgs@XXXXXX>
> > Subject: Re: 2004 mini sport bike / pocket bike - $900
> >
> > > Well call me and we can set up a time and place to make the transaction.
> > > The price is the same as in the ad $900 each.  The condition is band
> new.
> > > No fuel has ever been added to the tank.  I have many in stock.  Just
> let me
> > > know what color you want.  I have Red, Blue, Black, Yellow and Silver.
> > >
> > > 703-906-2906
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Pat
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "jerry rogers" <jerryrgs@XXXXXX>
> > > To: <dpc2@XXXXXX>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:10 PM
> > > Subject: 2004 mini sport bike / pocket bike - $900
> > >
> > >
> > > > I Saw your advert and am highly interested in buying it, kindly get
> back
> > > to me with your last offering price and the present
> condition of the
> above
> > > mentioned item.
> > > > Thanks.
> > > > Rogers
> > > > --
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Get your free email from http://mymail.dbzmail.com
> > > >
> > > > Powered by Outblaze
> > > >
> >
> > --
> > _______________________________________________
> > Get your free email from http://mymail.dbzmail.com
> >
> > Powered by Outblaze
> >

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 12:01:15 2004
From: Jim Shoemaker <shoe@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE FRAUD
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 12:01:07 -0400

I'd say there's about a 0.0001% that this is legit. Looks like the basic
Nigerian scam to me, but with a slightly better command of english.  He even
forgot to fill in what he was trying to "buy" in the boilerplate response.

--Jim

On Fri, 14 May 2004 11:08:19 -0400
 "Patrick Carter" <dpc2@XXXXXX> wrote:
> With all the fraud talk latey I thought I would run this by you all.
>
> Ok is this fishy to anyone?


> > Thanks for the mail i will buy the for $1800.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 12:05:16 2004
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 12:05:10 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
From: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
Reply-To: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
To: Daniel <motorcycle@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: VA  MSF class question



-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel <motorcycle@XXXXXX>
Sent: May 14, 2004 11:53 AM
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: VA  MSF class question

I have a friend  and friend of a friend  (here in known as FOAF).

FOAF bought a motorcycle, and both want to take the class..

my friend said in the NOVA catalog that a learners permit was required
to be obtained within 30 days of the class start.

Is nova assuming a person has no liscense?   is the catalog right or
wrong?  is that  VA MSF policy now?    or is a drivers liscense or
MC learners permit equal when it comes to taking the class?

btw they are  in burke va.. is there a closer class that is less
booked?

 - Danny

-------------

You must have a valid *driver's* license to take the course.  MC learner's permit is not required for the purposes of the course.

If NOVA Loudoun and Alexandria are booked too far out, try Lord Fairfax (nr. Winchester) or Germanna (nr. Fredericksburg.)




Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org
95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour]

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 12:23:06 2004
From: "Motorcycle Guy" <motorcycleguy1@XXXXXX>
To: viffermaniac@XXXXXX, motorcycle@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: VA MSF class question
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 12:11:29 -0400

No motorcycle license or permit is required to take the MSF class in VA.


>From: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
>Reply-To: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
>To: Daniel <motorcycle@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
>Subject: Re: VA  MSF class question
>Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 12:05:10 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Daniel <motorcycle@XXXXXX>
>Sent: May 14, 2004 11:53 AM
>To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
>Subject: VA  MSF class question
>
>I have a friend  and friend of a friend  (here in known as FOAF).
>
>FOAF bought a motorcycle, and both want to take the class..
>
>my friend said in the NOVA catalog that a learners permit was required
>to be obtained within 30 days of the class start.
>
>Is nova assuming a person has no liscense?   is the catalog right or
>wrong?  is that  VA MSF policy now?    or is a drivers liscense or
>MC learners permit equal when it comes to taking the class?
>
>btw they are  in burke va.. is there a closer class that is less
>booked?
>
>  - Danny
>
>-------------
>
>You must have a valid *driver's* license to take the course.  MC learner's
>permit is not required for the purposes of the course.
>
>If NOVA Loudoun and Alexandria are booked too far out, try Lord Fairfax
>(nr. Winchester) or Germanna (nr. Fredericksburg.)
>
>
>
>
>Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org
>95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour]
>


From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 12:31:43 2004
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 08:39:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE FRAUD
To: Patrick Carter <dpc2@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX

DON'T DO IT.  That is a scam.  He will steal your
money.  That person is clearly not a native english
speaker.

Craigslist is full of them.


--- Patrick Carter <dpc2@XXXXXX> wrote:
> With all the fraud talk latey I thought I would run
> this by you all.
>
> Ok is this fishy to anyone?  I posted an ad to sell
> some pocket/mini bikes
> on craigs list.  I get a responce from this guy, but
> the way he wants to go
> about the transaction is a little funny.  Since we
> are talking about a $2000
> refund wired back to him and two $900 bikes, rather
> be safe than be out
> $4000.
>
> If he gives me a cashiers check how soon would a
> bank know if it is phoney?
> Can cashiers check come back bounced since you have
> to have the cash the
> order the check?
>
> Opinions?  Suggestions?
>
> thanks,
> Pat
>
> Read below:
>
>
> Jerry,
> I am a little confused.  Just to clarify.  You want
> 2 bikes for $1800.  Your
> giving me $120 for running around.  Your client will
> be giving me a cashiers
> check of $4000.  I cash the check.  Deduct $1920.
> Meet your shipper with
> the bikes and wire the remaining $2080 to you
> shipper using western union.
>
> My name info is:
> Patrick Carter
> #### street name
> Fairfax, VA  22033
> 703-###-####
>
> Just out of curiosity, where is your location?  Is
> there a phone number I
> can reach you incase there are any other question,
> concerns, or problems?
> Can you please give me your clients information and
> your shippers
> information?
>
> Thanks,
> Pat
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jerry rogers" <jerryrgs@XXXXXX>
> To: "Patrick Carter" <dpc2@XXXXXX>
> Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 3:02 AM
> Subject: payment and trust
>
>
> > Thanks for the mail i will buy the for
> $1800.Payment will be made via a
> cachiers check of  $4000 by a client of mine in the
> state an amount oweing,
> so  it can be cashed at any local outlets in your
> area.All i need from you
> is  your full name and address including phone
> number so i can fax it to my
> client. Pickup arrangement will be made by my
> shipper, so as soon as you
> recieve payment you will deduct your actual amount
> and extra $120 for
> running around and wired the rest of the funs to my
> shipper via western
> union money transfer who will be at your location
> for the pick up. confirm
> this and get back to me with neccessary details. I
> await your response
> > Jerry
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Patrick Carter" <dpc2@XXXXXX>
> > Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:06:44 -0400
> > To: "jerry rogers" <jerryrgs@XXXXXX>
> > Subject: Re: 2004 mini sport bike / pocket bike -
> $900
> >
> > > Well call me and we can set up a time and place
> to make the transaction.
> > > The price is the same as in the ad $900 each.
> The condition is band
> new.
> > > No fuel has ever been added to the tank.  I have
> many in stock.  Just
> let me
> > > know what color you want.  I have Red, Blue,
> Black, Yellow and Silver.
> > >
> > > 703-906-2906
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Pat
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "jerry rogers" <jerryrgs@XXXXXX>
> > > To: <dpc2@XXXXXX>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:10 PM
> > > Subject: 2004 mini sport bike / pocket bike -
> $900
> > >
> > >
> > > > I Saw your advert and am highly interested in
> buying it, kindly get
> back
> > > to me with your last offering price and the
> present condition of the
> above
> > > mentioned item.
> > > > Thanks.
> > > > Rogers
> > > > --
> > > >
> _______________________________________________
> > > > Get your free email from
> http://mymail.dbzmail.com
> > > >
> > > > Powered by Outblaze
> > > >
> >
> > --
> > _______________________________________________
> > Get your free email from http://mymail.dbzmail.com
> >
> > Powered by Outblaze
> >
>





__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price.
http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 12:50:56 2004
Reply-To: "Patrick Carter" <dpc2@XXXXXX>
From: "Patrick Carter" <dpc2@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE FRAUD
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 12:50:29 -0400

Ok thanks guys.  The consinsous is to walk away from this deal.  Should I
even reply to offer him only 2 options?  The paypal option or the
www.escrow.com option.  Or just walk away totally?

 Either way I am not going for that cashiers check deal.

Pat
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Kitchell" <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
To: "Patrick Carter" <dpc2@XXXXXX>; <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 11:39 AM
Subject: Re: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE FRAUD


> DON'T DO IT.  That is a scam.  He will steal your
> money.  That person is clearly not a native english
> speaker.
>
> Craigslist is full of them.
>
>
> --- Patrick Carter <dpc2@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > With all the fraud talk latey I thought I would run
> > this by you all.
> >
> > Ok is this fishy to anyone?  I posted an ad to sell
> > some pocket/mini bikes
> > on craigs list.  I get a responce from this guy, but
> > the way he wants to go
> > about the transaction is a little funny.  Since we
> > are talking about a $2000
> > refund wired back to him and two $900 bikes, rather
> > be safe than be out
> > $4000.
> >
> > If he gives me a cashiers check how soon would a
> > bank know if it is phoney?
> > Can cashiers check come back bounced since you have
> > to have the cash the
> > order the check?
> >
> > Opinions?  Suggestions?
> >
> > thanks,
> > Pat
> >
> > Read below:
> >
> >
> > Jerry,
> > I am a little confused.  Just to clarify.  You want
> > 2 bikes for $1800.  Your
> > giving me $120 for running around.  Your client will
> > be giving me a cashiers
> > check of $4000.  I cash the check.  Deduct $1920.
> > Meet your shipper with
> > the bikes and wire the remaining $2080 to you
> > shipper using western union.
> >
> > My name info is:
> > Patrick Carter
> > #### street name
> > Fairfax, VA  22033
> > 703-###-####
> >
> > Just out of curiosity, where is your location?  Is
> > there a phone number I
> > can reach you incase there are any other question,
> > concerns, or problems?
> > Can you please give me your clients information and
> > your shippers
> > information?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Pat
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "jerry rogers" <jerryrgs@XXXXXX>
> > To: "Patrick Carter" <dpc2@XXXXXX>
> > Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 3:02 AM
> > Subject: payment and trust
> >
> >
> > > Thanks for the mail i will buy the for
> > $1800.Payment will be made via a
> > cachiers check of  $4000 by a client of mine in the
> > state an amount oweing,
> > so  it can be cashed at any local outlets in your
> > area.All i need from you
> > is  your full name and address including phone
> > number so i can fax it to my
> > client. Pickup arrangement will be made by my
> > shipper, so as soon as you
> > recieve payment you will deduct your actual amount
> > and extra $120 for
> > running around and wired the rest of the funs to my
> > shipper via western
> > union money transfer who will be at your location
> > for the pick up. confirm
> > this and get back to me with neccessary details. I
> > await your response
> > > Jerry
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Patrick Carter" <dpc2@XXXXXX>
> > > Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:06:44 -0400
> > > To: "jerry rogers" <jerryrgs@XXXXXX>
> > > Subject: Re: 2004 mini sport bike / pocket bike -
> > $900
> > >
> > > > Well call me and we can set up a time and place
> > to make the transaction.
> > > > The price is the same as in the ad $900 each.
> > The condition is band
> > new.
> > > > No fuel has ever been added to the tank.  I have
> > many in stock.  Just
> > let me
> > > > know what color you want.  I have Red, Blue,
> > Black, Yellow and Silver.
> > > >
> > > > 703-906-2906
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Pat
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "jerry rogers" <jerryrgs@XXXXXX>
> > > > To: <dpc2@XXXXXX>
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:10 PM
> > > > Subject: 2004 mini sport bike / pocket bike -
> > $900
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > I Saw your advert and am highly interested in
> > buying it, kindly get
> > back
> > > > to me with your last offering price and the
> > present condition of the
> > above
> > > > mentioned item.
> > > > > Thanks.
> > > > > Rogers
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Get your free email from
> > http://mymail.dbzmail.com
> > > > >
> > > > > Powered by Outblaze
> > > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Get your free email from http://mymail.dbzmail.com
> > >
> > > Powered by Outblaze
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price.
> http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 13:20:48 2004
Subject: RE: payment and trust <--Absolutely this is fraud
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 13:20:39 -0400
From: "Verde, Robert" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>
To: "Patrick Carter" <dpc2@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Walk away, notify whomever you like that there is another fraudster on the loose.

If he was actually a serious buyer, he wouldn't be suggesting this sort of monkey business.  His greed got the better of him, prompting him to try and get cash as well as merchandise in exchange for a bogus cashier's check.  Scum.

Robert

-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Carter [mailto:dpc2@XXXXXX]
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 12:50 PM
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE FRAUD


Ok thanks guys.  The consinsous is to walk away from this deal.  Should I
even reply to offer him only 2 options?  The paypal option or the
www.escrow.com option.  Or just walk away totally?

 Either way I am not going for that cashiers check deal.

Pat

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 13:24:02 2004
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 13:23:47 -0400
From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE FRAUD
X-AOL-IP: 65.86.98.162

I would just walk away and not respond.  Also, be extra careful and mindful of people/things around your place now.  Since you gave him your address, he can pass it on to someone here in the states to target you for a possible burglary.  I've heard of that happening now as well.

Scooter

In a message dated 5/14/2004 12:50:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dpc2@XXXXXX writes:

>
>
> Ok thanks guys.  The consinsous is to walk away from this deal.  Should I
> even reply to offer him only 2 options?  The paypal option or the
> www.escrow.com option.  Or just walk away totally?
>
> Either way I am not going for that cashiers check deal.
>
> Pat
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Kitchell" <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
> To: "Patrick Carter" <dpc2@XXXXXX>; <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
> Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 11:39 AM
> Subject: Re: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE
> FRAUD
>
>
> > DON'T DO IT.  That is a scam.  He will steal your
> > money.  That person is clearly not a native english
> > speaker.
> >
> > Craigslist is full of them.
> >
> >
> > --- Patrick Carter <dpc2@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > > With all the fraud talk latey I thought I would run
> > > this by you all.
> > >
> > > Ok is this fishy to anyone?  I posted an ad to sell
> > > some pocket/mini bikes
> > > on craigs list.  I get a responce from this guy, but
> > > the way he wants to go
> > > about the transaction is a little funny.  Since we
> > > are talking about a $2000
> > > refund wired back to him and two $900 bikes, rather
> > > be safe than be out
> > > $4000.
> > >
> > > If he gives me a cashiers check how soon would a
> > > bank know if it is phoney?
> > > Can cashiers check come back bounced since you have
> > > to have the cash the
> > > order the check?
> > >
> > > Opinions?  Suggestions?
> > >
> > > thanks,
> > > Pat
> > >
> > > Read below:
> > >
> > >
> > > Jerry,
> > > I am a little confused.  Just to clarify.  You want
> > > 2 bikes for $1800.  Your
> > > giving me $120 for running around.  Your client will
> > > be giving me a cashiers
> > > check of $4000.  I cash the check.  Deduct $1920.
> > > Meet your shipper with
> > > the bikes and wire the remaining $2080 to you
> > > shipper using western union.
> > >
> > > My name info is:
> > > Patrick Carter
> > > #### street name
> > > Fairfax, VA  22033
> > > 703-###-####
> > >
> > > Just out of curiosity, where is your location?  Is
> > > there a phone number I
> > > can reach you incase there are any other question,
> > > concerns, or problems?
> > > Can you please give me your clients information and
> > > your shippers
> > > information?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Pat
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "jerry rogers" <jerryrgs@XXXXXX>
> > > To: "Patrick Carter" <dpc2@XXXXXX>
> > > Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 3:02 AM
> > > Subject: payment and trust
> > >
> > >
> > > > Thanks for the mail i will buy the for
> > > $1800.Payment will be made via a
> > > cachiers check of  $4000 by a client of mine in the
> > > state an amount oweing,
> > > so  it can be cashed at any local outlets in your
> > > area.All i need from you
> > > is  your full name and address including phone
> > > number so i can fax it to my
> > > client. Pickup arrangement will be made by my
> > > shipper, so as soon as you
> > > recieve payment you will deduct your actual amount
> > > and extra $120 for
> > > running around and wired the rest of the funs to my
> > > shipper via western
> > > union money transfer who will be at your location
> > > for the pick up. confirm
> > > this and get back to me with neccessary details. I
> > > await your response
> > > > Jerry
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Patrick Carter" <dpc2@XXXXXX>
> > > > Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:06:44 -0400
> > > > To: "jerry rogers" <jerryrgs@XXXXXX>
> > > > Subject: Re: 2004 mini sport bike / pocket bike -
> > > $900
> > > >
> > > > > Well call me and we can set up a time and place
> > > to make the transaction.
> > > > > The price is the same as in the ad $900 each.
> > > The condition is band
> > > new.
> > > > > No fuel has ever been added to the tank.  I have
> > > many in stock.  Just
> > > let me
> > > > > know what color you want.  I have Red, Blue,
> > > Black, Yellow and Silver.
> > > > >
> > > > > 703-906-2906
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > Pat
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "jerry rogers" <jerryrgs@XXXXXX>
> > > > > To: <dpc2@XXXXXX>
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:10 PM
> > > > > Subject: 2004 mini sport bike / pocket bike -
> > > $900
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > I Saw your advert and am highly interested in
> > > buying it, kindly get
> > > back
> > > > > to me with your last offering price and the
> > > present condition of the
> > > above
> > > > > mentioned item.
> > > > > > Thanks.
> > > > > > Rogers
> > > > > > --
> > > > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Get your free email from
> > > http://mymail.dbzmail.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Powered by Outblaze
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Get your free email from http://mymail.dbzmail.com
> > > >
> > > > Powered by Outblaze
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price.
> > http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/
> >

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 13:45:08 2004
Reply-To: "Patrick Carter" <dpc2@XXXXXX>
From: "Patrick Carter" <dpc2@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE FRAUD
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 13:44:59 -0400

Thanks guys.  Actually I never sent that last email.  I still have it in my
drafts.  So he doesn't have any of my info.  Well except my phone number
that I sent in the first email.

Yeah I figure its a waste of time giving him the 2 option cause he prolly
would reply to that.

Pat

----- Original Message -----
From: <ScooterFZR@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 1:23 PM
Subject: Re: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE FRAUD


> I would just walk away and not respond.  Also, be extra careful and
mindful of people/things around your place now.  Since you gave him your
address, he can pass it on to someone here in the states to target you for a
possible burglary.  I've heard of that happening now as well.
>
> Scooter
>
> In a message dated 5/14/2004 12:50:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
dpc2@XXXXXX writes:
>
> >
> >
> > Ok thanks guys.  The consinsous is to walk away from this deal.  Should
I
> > even reply to offer him only 2 options?  The paypal option or the
> > www.escrow.com option.  Or just walk away totally?
> >
> > Either way I am not going for that cashiers check deal.
> >
> > Pat
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Mark Kitchell" <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
> > To: "Patrick Carter" <dpc2@XXXXXX>; <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
> > Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 11:39 AM
> > Subject: Re: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE
> > FRAUD
> >
> >
> > > DON'T DO IT.  That is a scam.  He will steal your
> > > money.  That person is clearly not a native english
> > > speaker.
> > >
> > > Craigslist is full of them.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- Patrick Carter <dpc2@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > > > With all the fraud talk latey I thought I would run
> > > > this by you all.
> > > >
> > > > Ok is this fishy to anyone?  I posted an ad to sell
> > > > some pocket/mini bikes
> > > > on craigs list.  I get a responce from this guy, but
> > > > the way he wants to go
> > > > about the transaction is a little funny.  Since we
> > > > are talking about a $2000
> > > > refund wired back to him and two $900 bikes, rather
> > > > be safe than be out
> > > > $4000.
> > > >
> > > > If he gives me a cashiers check how soon would a
> > > > bank know if it is phoney?
> > > > Can cashiers check come back bounced since you have
> > > > to have the cash the
> > > > order the check?
> > > >
> > > > Opinions?  Suggestions?
> > > >
> > > > thanks,
> > > > Pat
> > > >
> > > > Read below:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Jerry,
> > > > I am a little confused.  Just to clarify.  You want
> > > > 2 bikes for $1800.  Your
> > > > giving me $120 for running around.  Your client will
> > > > be giving me a cashiers
> > > > check of $4000.  I cash the check.  Deduct $1920.
> > > > Meet your shipper with
> > > > the bikes and wire the remaining $2080 to you
> > > > shipper using western union.
> > > >
> > > > My name info is:
> > > > Patrick Carter
> > > > #### street name
> > > > Fairfax, VA  22033
> > > > 703-###-####
> > > >
> > > > Just out of curiosity, where is your location?  Is
> > > > there a phone number I
> > > > can reach you incase there are any other question,
> > > > concerns, or problems?
> > > > Can you please give me your clients information and
> > > > your shippers
> > > > information?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Pat
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "jerry rogers" <jerryrgs@XXXXXX>
> > > > To: "Patrick Carter" <dpc2@XXXXXX>
> > > > Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 3:02 AM
> > > > Subject: payment and trust
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Thanks for the mail i will buy the for
> > > > $1800.Payment will be made via a
> > > > cachiers check of  $4000 by a client of mine in the
> > > > state an amount oweing,
> > > > so  it can be cashed at any local outlets in your
> > > > area.All i need from you
> > > > is  your full name and address including phone
> > > > number so i can fax it to my
> > > > client. Pickup arrangement will be made by my
> > > > shipper, so as soon as you
> > > > recieve payment you will deduct your actual amount
> > > > and extra $120 for
> > > > running around and wired the rest of the funs to my
> > > > shipper via western
> > > > union money transfer who will be at your location
> > > > for the pick up. confirm
> > > > this and get back to me with neccessary details. I
> > > > await your response
> > > > > Jerry
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Patrick Carter" <dpc2@XXXXXX>
> > > > > Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:06:44 -0400
> > > > > To: "jerry rogers" <jerryrgs@XXXXXX>
> > > > > Subject: Re: 2004 mini sport bike / pocket bike -
> > > > $900
> > > > >
> > > > > > Well call me and we can set up a time and place
> > > > to make the transaction.
> > > > > > The price is the same as in the ad $900 each.
> > > > The condition is band
> > > > new.
> > > > > > No fuel has ever been added to the tank.  I have
> > > > many in stock.  Just
> > > > let me
> > > > > > know what color you want.  I have Red, Blue,
> > > > Black, Yellow and Silver.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 703-906-2906
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > Pat
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "jerry rogers" <jerryrgs@XXXXXX>
> > > > > > To: <dpc2@XXXXXX>
> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:10 PM
> > > > > > Subject: 2004 mini sport bike / pocket bike -
> > > > $900
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I Saw your advert and am highly interested in
> > > > buying it, kindly get
> > > > back
> > > > > > to me with your last offering price and the
> > > > present condition of the
> > > > above
> > > > > > mentioned item.
> > > > > > > Thanks.
> > > > > > > Rogers
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > Get your free email from
> > > > http://mymail.dbzmail.com
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Powered by Outblaze
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Get your free email from http://mymail.dbzmail.com
> > > > >
> > > > > Powered by Outblaze
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price.
> > > http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/
> > >
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 13:46:49 2004
Subject: Shifting Problem Mechanically-challenged description
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 13:50:55 -0400
From: "Julian Halton" <julian@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>


 I ride the '02 R6.  Every once in a while when shifting from 1st to 2nd
gear, neutral to first or second while moving, or downshifting from 2nd
to 1st..the following behavior occurs.  Clutch in, use shift
lever,ggrrrrrrrrrr sound. Okay, does not want to shift. Release clutch
wait,  try to shift down to 1st...grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr sound.  Okay wait,
try to shift UP to second...grrrr sound. Release clutch, wait, wait
MEANWHILE I am slowing down and car drivers behind me are getting
pissed.
Depress clutch, shift lever and finally make it into gear.  I have been
advised in the past to check out R6  specific problems on an R6 forum.
My question is, what magical happening occurs during the time I am in
neutral and slowing down that allows me to get past the grrrr sound and
shift into gear?



From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 13:56:43 2004
From: Bob Meyer <rmeyer9@XXXXXX>
Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX
To: <mjordan812@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Re: Woah - Bad Motorcycle Accident Pics (No Gore, Work Safe)
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 13:56:35 -0400

> From: <mjordan812@XXXXXX>

>
> > http://www.eccentricksportbikes.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=233
>
> I was going to clip the wire on my Hyperlites so that they wouldn't blink all the time the brakes were activated.
>
> Think that I'll leave them in blinky mode after this

Yeah, I keep mine blinking.  Have had problems with VA state inspection that way, however.  So I clipped the wire and put some quick disconnect terminals on each end.  Keep them plugged together most of the time, disconnect them for inspection, then connect them back up.

Bob Meyer


Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157
'01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa"
'92 ST1100, "red STag"
'02 919, "still looking for a name"

A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers....

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 14:13:55 2004
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 14:13:35 -0400
From: Brian Roach <roach@XXXXXX>
To: Julian Halton <julian@XXXXXX>
CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Shifting Problem Mechanically-challenged description

Julian Halton wrote:

> My question is, what magical happening occurs during the time I am in
> neutral and slowing down that allows me to get past the grrrr sound and
> shift into gear?

The amount of load being applied to the tranny changes.

The most likely reason you can't shift is because there's too much load
on the input shaft gears to allow the the gears on the output shaft to
engage. If you can shift the bike at a standstill without problems,
that's pretty likely. When you pull in the clutch, you're removing the
engine load from the input shaft, which allows the gearbox to move to
the next gear on the output shaft.

I'd check to see that your clutch is properly adjusted and is fully
dis-engaging when you pull in the lever.

If it's not a clutch problem ... then you're looking at a problem with
the gearbox itself, such as a bent shift fork that isn't moving the
gears far enough along the counter shaft.

- Roach

--
http://www.speedwerks.com
The one-stop shop for all your motorcycling needs!
(302) 672 - 7223

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 14:14:29 2004
From: "Perry Coleman" <perrycoleman@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE FRAUD
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 14:14:21 -0400

Unless you want to play with him for a bit. You could offer to send a fax of
the bikes to go with his fax of the check, or something. Maybe Kitchell
could come up with some good ideas to play this fish for a while...

Perry


>From: "Patrick Carter" <dpc2@XXXXXX>
>Reply-To: "Patrick Carter" <dpc2@XXXXXX>
>To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
>Subject: Re: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE FRAUD
>Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 13:44:59 -0400
>
>Thanks guys.  Actually I never sent that last email.  I still have it in my
>drafts.  So he doesn't have any of my info.  Well except my phone number
>that I sent in the first email.
>
>Yeah I figure its a waste of time giving him the 2 option cause he prolly
>would reply to that.
>
>Pat
>

_________________________________________________________________
Stop worrying about overloading your inbox - get MSN Hotmail Extra Storage!
http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 14:22:39 2004
From: bernescut@XXXXXX
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: Shifting Problem Mechanically-challenged description
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 14:22:13 -0400

I'm having a similare problem on my CBR600F4, but speed of the bike doesn't
seem to affect shift effort.  I find that I have to give the shift lever a
solid whack to get it to shift and I get a solid "thunk" when it engages the
next gear (up or down).  I also get false neutrals between 1st and 2nd and
occasionally when downshifting between 5th and 4th.  If my clutch is
adjusted OK and I have to work on my F4's tranny, does it have to come out
of the frame?  Does the engine have to come out to get to it?  Is a used
transmission from a wrecked CBR a worthwhile alternative?  Thanks for any
advice I can get...
Cedric Bernescut
2000 CBR600F4
Annandale, VA

If it's not a clutch problem ... then you're looking at a problem with
the gearbox itself, such as a bent shift fork that isn't moving the
gears far enough along the counter shaft.

- Roach

--
http://www.speedwerks.com
The one-stop shop for all your motorcycling needs!
(302) 672 - 7223

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 14:34:17 2004
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 10:33:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: payment and trust <--Absolutely this is fraud
To: "Verde, Robert" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>, Patrick Carter <dpc2@XXXXXX>,
   dc-cycles@XXXXXX

Despite what Bruce Brownlee thinks, I believe its
valuable for us to share this type of information.
This is so clearly a scam.  I bet this guy does not
know what a pocket bike is.


--- "Verde, Robert" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Walk away, notify whomever you like that there is
> another fraudster on the loose.
>
> If he was actually a serious buyer, he wouldn't be
> suggesting this sort of monkey business.  His greed
> got the better of him, prompting him to try and get
> cash as well as merchandise in exchange for a bogus
> cashier's check.  Scum.
>
> Robert
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Patrick Carter [mailto:dpc2@XXXXXX]
> Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 12:50 PM
> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> Subject: Re: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE?
> POSSIBLE FRAUD
>
>
> Ok thanks guys.  The consinsous is to walk away from
> this deal.  Should I
> even reply to offer him only 2 options?  The paypal
> option or the
> www.escrow.com option.  Or just walk away totally?
>
>  Either way I am not going for that cashiers check
> deal.
>
> Pat
>





__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price.
http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 14:44:11 2004
Subject: RE: payment and trust <--Absolutely this is fraud
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 14:44:02 -0400
From: "Verde, Robert" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>
To: "Mark Kitchell" <markkitchell@XXXXXX>, "Patrick Carter" <dpc2@XXXXXX>,
   <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

I second Mark's comments.  I'm planning on placing an ad or two myself, and these accounts have opened my eyes to a variety of scams I had not even thought of.  I guess it's my naivet)Bé speaking, but I really didn't think transactions of this nature (bikes selling for under 5K) would attract this many entrepreneurial crooks; these stories are certainly edifying, and more than a bit disconcerting.

Robert

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Kitchell [mailto:markkitchell@XXXXXX]
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 1:33 PM
To: Verde, Robert; Patrick Carter; dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: payment and trust <--Absolutely this is fraud


Despite what Bruce Brownlee thinks, I believe its
valuable for us to share this type of information.
This is so clearly a scam.  I bet this guy does not
know what a pocket bike is.


From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 14:46:10 2004
From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 14:45:57 EDT
Subject: Re: Shifting Problem Mechanically-challenged description
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

In a message dated 5/14/2004 1:47:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
julian@XXXXXX writes:

> Every once in a while when shifting from 1st to 2nd
>  gear,

Are you SHIFTING or are you  s..h..i..f..t..i..n..g.  The throw from 1st to
2nd is longer and if you try to do a slow "easy" shift you may get what you are
describing.
Also check your clutch adjustment, if it is dragging it could cause the
problem you describe.


New "bumper sticker" on the ST1100.

"Eat right, stay fit,
 DIE ANYWAY!"

John Walters (Long John)
PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Up near DC

Honda ST1100X Pan European
BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles
Honda 1976 CR250M  Motowhat racer

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 15:14:44 2004
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 11:22:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Shifting Problem Mechanically-challenged description
To: Julian Halton <julian@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

Julian:

Thats a good question and I am looking forward to more
technical answers (thanks Brian).  I had this problem
recently and it turned out to be a simple fix.  My
clutch lever was adjusted so that when pulled in it
was hitting the handlebar.  Therefore, the clutch was
not fully disengaging.


--- Brian Roach <roach@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Julian Halton wrote:
>
> > My question is, what magical happening occurs
> during the time I am in
> > neutral and slowing down that allows me to get
> past the grrrr sound and
> > shift into gear?
>
> The amount of load being applied to the tranny
> changes.
>
> The most likely reason you can't shift is because
> there's too much load
> on the input shaft gears to allow the the gears on
> the output shaft to
> engage. If you can shift the bike at a standstill
> without problems,
> that's pretty likely. When you pull in the clutch,
> you're removing the
> engine load from the input shaft, which allows the
> gearbox to move to
> the next gear on the output shaft.
>
> I'd check to see that your clutch is properly
> adjusted and is fully
> dis-engaging when you pull in the lever.
>
> If it's not a clutch problem ... then you're looking
> at a problem with
> the gearbox itself, such as a bent shift fork that
> isn't moving the
> gears far enough along the counter shaft.
>
> - Roach
>
> --
> http://www.speedwerks.com
> The one-stop shop for all your motorcycling needs!
> (302) 672 - 7223
>





__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price.
http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 18:03:13 2004
From: "Gary Foreman" <lists@XXXXXX>
To: "'Patrick Carter'" <dpc2@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE FRAUD
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 18:06:10 -0400

Don't trust PayPal.  I had someone order something from me, shipped it, and
two months later, PayPal takes the money out of my account, with no
notification, and said the person used a fake card.  So I'm out the item.
Called the guy's phone no, and he answered and said he would straighten it
out.   Then he stopped answering the phone.  He used a legit card that was
his, his wife disputed the charge, and I'm screwed and haven't got a leg to
stand on.  They won't even give me the credit card details.

PayPal just told me tuff shit, they don't have to notify me, just take the
money.

For this reason, I won't use PP except for stuff under $20-$30.

Gary



-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Carter [mailto:dpc2@XXXXXX]
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 12:50 PM
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE FRAUD

Ok thanks guys.  The consinsous is to walk away from this deal.  Should I
even reply to offer him only 2 options?  The paypal option or the
www.escrow.com option.  Or just walk away totally?

 Either way I am not going for that cashiers check deal.

Pat
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Kitchell" <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
To: "Patrick Carter" <dpc2@XXXXXX>; <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 11:39 AM
Subject: Re: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE FRAUD


> DON'T DO IT.  That is a scam.  He will steal your
> money.  That person is clearly not a native english
> speaker.
>
> Craigslist is full of them.
>
>
> --- Patrick Carter <dpc2@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > With all the fraud talk latey I thought I would run
> > this by you all.
> >
> > Ok is this fishy to anyone?  I posted an ad to sell
> > some pocket/mini bikes
> > on craigs list.  I get a responce from this guy, but
> > the way he wants to go
> > about the transaction is a little funny.  Since we
> > are talking about a $2000
> > refund wired back to him and two $900 bikes, rather
> > be safe than be out
> > $4000.
> >
> > If he gives me a cashiers check how soon would a
> > bank know if it is phoney?
> > Can cashiers check come back bounced since you have
> > to have the cash the
> > order the check?
> >
> > Opinions?  Suggestions?
> >
> > thanks,
> > Pat
> >
> > Read below:
> >
> >
> > Jerry,
> > I am a little confused.  Just to clarify.  You want
> > 2 bikes for $1800.  Your
> > giving me $120 for running around.  Your client will
> > be giving me a cashiers
> > check of $4000.  I cash the check.  Deduct $1920.
> > Meet your shipper with
> > the bikes and wire the remaining $2080 to you
> > shipper using western union.
> >
> > My name info is:
> > Patrick Carter
> > #### street name
> > Fairfax, VA  22033
> > 703-###-####
> >
> > Just out of curiosity, where is your location?  Is
> > there a phone number I
> > can reach you incase there are any other question,
> > concerns, or problems?
> > Can you please give me your clients information and
> > your shippers
> > information?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Pat
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "jerry rogers" <jerryrgs@XXXXXX>
> > To: "Patrick Carter" <dpc2@XXXXXX>
> > Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 3:02 AM
> > Subject: payment and trust
> >
> >
> > > Thanks for the mail i will buy the for
> > $1800.Payment will be made via a
> > cachiers check of  $4000 by a client of mine in the
> > state an amount oweing,
> > so  it can be cashed at any local outlets in your
> > area.All i need from you
> > is  your full name and address including phone
> > number so i can fax it to my
> > client. Pickup arrangement will be made by my
> > shipper, so as soon as you
> > recieve payment you will deduct your actual amount
> > and extra $120 for
> > running around and wired the rest of the funs to my
> > shipper via western
> > union money transfer who will be at your location
> > for the pick up. confirm
> > this and get back to me with neccessary details. I
> > await your response
> > > Jerry
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Patrick Carter" <dpc2@XXXXXX>
> > > Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:06:44 -0400
> > > To: "jerry rogers" <jerryrgs@XXXXXX>
> > > Subject: Re: 2004 mini sport bike / pocket bike -
> > $900
> > >
> > > > Well call me and we can set up a time and place
> > to make the transaction.
> > > > The price is the same as in the ad $900 each.
> > The condition is band
> > new.
> > > > No fuel has ever been added to the tank.  I have
> > many in stock.  Just
> > let me
> > > > know what color you want.  I have Red, Blue,
> > Black, Yellow and Silver.
> > > >
> > > > 703-906-2906
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Pat
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "jerry rogers" <jerryrgs@XXXXXX>
> > > > To: <dpc2@XXXXXX>
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:10 PM
> > > > Subject: 2004 mini sport bike / pocket bike -
> > $900
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > I Saw your advert and am highly interested in
> > buying it, kindly get
> > back
> > > > to me with your last offering price and the
> > present condition of the
> > above
> > > > mentioned item.
> > > > > Thanks.
> > > > > Rogers
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Get your free email from
> > http://mymail.dbzmail.com
> > > > >
> > > > > Powered by Outblaze
> > > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Get your free email from http://mymail.dbzmail.com
> > >
> > > Powered by Outblaze
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price.
> http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/
>




From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 18:10:28 2004
Reply-To: "Patrick Carter" <dpc2@XXXXXX>
From: "Patrick Carter" <dpc2@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE FRAUD
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 18:09:33 -0400

Damn.  I never heard that before.  That seems messed up.  That should be
paypals problem if they used a fake card or disputted the charge.  And not
even tell you the basis of the dispute.  Sucks.

Pat
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Foreman" <lists@XXXXXX>
To: "'Patrick Carter'" <dpc2@XXXXXX>; <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 6:06 PM
Subject: RE: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE FRAUD


> Don't trust PayPal.  I had someone order something from me, shipped it,
and
> two months later, PayPal takes the money out of my account, with no
> notification, and said the person used a fake card.  So I'm out the item.
> Called the guy's phone no, and he answered and said he would straighten it
> out.   Then he stopped answering the phone.  He used a legit card that was
> his, his wife disputed the charge, and I'm screwed and haven't got a leg
to
> stand on.  They won't even give me the credit card details.
>
> PayPal just told me tuff shit, they don't have to notify me, just take the
> money.
>
> For this reason, I won't use PP except for stuff under $20-$30.
>
> Gary
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Patrick Carter [mailto:dpc2@XXXXXX]
> Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 12:50 PM
> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> Subject: Re: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE FRAUD
>
> Ok thanks guys.  The consinsous is to walk away from this deal.  Should I
> even reply to offer him only 2 options?  The paypal option or the
> www.escrow.com option.  Or just walk away totally?
>
>  Either way I am not going for that cashiers check deal.
>
> Pat
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Kitchell" <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
> To: "Patrick Carter" <dpc2@XXXXXX>; <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
> Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 11:39 AM
> Subject: Re: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE FRAUD
>
>
> > DON'T DO IT.  That is a scam.  He will steal your
> > money.  That person is clearly not a native english
> > speaker.
> >
> > Craigslist is full of them.
> >
> >
> > --- Patrick Carter <dpc2@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > > With all the fraud talk latey I thought I would run
> > > this by you all.
> > >
> > > Ok is this fishy to anyone?  I posted an ad to sell
> > > some pocket/mini bikes
> > > on craigs list.  I get a responce from this guy, but
> > > the way he wants to go
> > > about the transaction is a little funny.  Since we
> > > are talking about a $2000
> > > refund wired back to him and two $900 bikes, rather
> > > be safe than be out
> > > $4000.
> > >
> > > If he gives me a cashiers check how soon would a
> > > bank know if it is phoney?
> > > Can cashiers check come back bounced since you have
> > > to have the cash the
> > > order the check?
> > >
> > > Opinions?  Suggestions?
> > >
> > > thanks,
> > > Pat
> > >
> > > Read below:
> > >
> > >
> > > Jerry,
> > > I am a little confused.  Just to clarify.  You want
> > > 2 bikes for $1800.  Your
> > > giving me $120 for running around.  Your client will
> > > be giving me a cashiers
> > > check of $4000.  I cash the check.  Deduct $1920.
> > > Meet your shipper with
> > > the bikes and wire the remaining $2080 to you
> > > shipper using western union.
> > >
> > > My name info is:
> > > Patrick Carter
> > > #### street name
> > > Fairfax, VA  22033
> > > 703-###-####
> > >
> > > Just out of curiosity, where is your location?  Is
> > > there a phone number I
> > > can reach you incase there are any other question,
> > > concerns, or problems?
> > > Can you please give me your clients information and
> > > your shippers
> > > information?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Pat
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "jerry rogers" <jerryrgs@XXXXXX>
> > > To: "Patrick Carter" <dpc2@XXXXXX>
> > > Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 3:02 AM
> > > Subject: payment and trust
> > >
> > >
> > > > Thanks for the mail i will buy the for
> > > $1800.Payment will be made via a
> > > cachiers check of  $4000 by a client of mine in the
> > > state an amount oweing,
> > > so  it can be cashed at any local outlets in your
> > > area.All i need from you
> > > is  your full name and address including phone
> > > number so i can fax it to my
> > > client. Pickup arrangement will be made by my
> > > shipper, so as soon as you
> > > recieve payment you will deduct your actual amount
> > > and extra $120 for
> > > running around and wired the rest of the funs to my
> > > shipper via western
> > > union money transfer who will be at your location
> > > for the pick up. confirm
> > > this and get back to me with neccessary details. I
> > > await your response
> > > > Jerry
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Patrick Carter" <dpc2@XXXXXX>
> > > > Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:06:44 -0400
> > > > To: "jerry rogers" <jerryrgs@XXXXXX>
> > > > Subject: Re: 2004 mini sport bike / pocket bike -
> > > $900
> > > >
> > > > > Well call me and we can set up a time and place
> > > to make the transaction.
> > > > > The price is the same as in the ad $900 each.
> > > The condition is band
> > > new.
> > > > > No fuel has ever been added to the tank.  I have
> > > many in stock.  Just
> > > let me
> > > > > know what color you want.  I have Red, Blue,
> > > Black, Yellow and Silver.
> > > > >
> > > > > 703-906-2906
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > Pat
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "jerry rogers" <jerryrgs@XXXXXX>
> > > > > To: <dpc2@XXXXXX>
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:10 PM
> > > > > Subject: 2004 mini sport bike / pocket bike -
> > > $900
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > I Saw your advert and am highly interested in
> > > buying it, kindly get
> > > back
> > > > > to me with your last offering price and the
> > > present condition of the
> > > above
> > > > > mentioned item.
> > > > > > Thanks.
> > > > > > Rogers
> > > > > > --
> > > > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Get your free email from
> > > http://mymail.dbzmail.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Powered by Outblaze
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Get your free email from http://mymail.dbzmail.com
> > > >
> > > > Powered by Outblaze
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price.
> > http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/
> >
>
>
>
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 18:20:54 2004
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 18:20:47 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
From: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
Reply-To: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE FRAUD



-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Carter <dpc2@XXXXXX>


Damn.  I never heard that before.  That seems messed up.  That should be
paypals problem if they used a fake card or disputted the charge.  And not
even tell you the basis of the dispute.  Sucks.

Pat
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Foreman" <lists@XXXXXX>



> Don't trust PayPal.  I had someone order something from me, shipped it,
and
> two months later, PayPal takes the money out of my account, with no
> notification, and said the person used a fake card.  So I'm out the item.
> Called the guy's phone no, and he answered and said he would straighten it
> out.   Then he stopped answering the phone.  He used a legit card that was
> his, his wife disputed the charge, and I'm screwed and haven't got a leg
to
> stand on.  They won't even give me the credit card details.
>
> PayPal just told me tuff shit, they don't have to notify me, just take the
> money.
>
> For this reason, I won't use PP except for stuff under $20-$30.
>
> Gary
>
Count me as a somewhat dissatisfied PayPal customer.  They've gotten greedy since they were bought out by eBay.  I need to change my eBay payment policies I guess.   Increasingly, people are paying for their PayPal transactions with credit cards.  The seller, not the buyer, gets dunned with a fee for these credit card transactions, effectively reducing the "take" from an auction.  Moreover, I "won" an eBay auction for a ScottOiler (obl. moto content) offered for sale by a Brit and PayPal charged me a pretty hefty commission (much more than a standard credit card) on top of the exchange rate from dollars to pounds sterling.  I would have been better off sending an international money order via snail mail.



Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org
95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour]

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat May 15 08:42:26 2004
Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 08:42:21 -0400
From: Skip Smith <Skip@XXXXXX>
To: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
CC: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Plastic Painting

any body shop that can paint Saturn parts should be able to take car of
it for you.

Mark Kitchell wrote:
>
> Who paints fairings around here?
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2'
> http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat May 15 08:50:35 2004
Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 08:50:31 -0400
From: Skip Smith <Skip@XXXXXX>
To: rich hall <richallmc@XXXXXX>
CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Toll Not Paid



rich hall wrote:
>
> Changing vehicles is in the rules for EZ Pass.  Don't know why.  Mom is a
> stickler for rules, she put me on their pass because of this.
> Back when I commuted on the toll road I'd be upset if you broke at all for
> the plaza.  They'll pick up well over the posted 35, I've heard.
> EZ Pass's indicator for tolls being paid is a lot closer to the both,
> therefore you don't have as long to see it.


A friend of mine says, "they'll pick up at 113mph, and if you do that a
couple days in a row, they'll set up a speed trap."

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat May 15 12:37:22 2004
Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 12:37:09 -0400
From: Brian Roach <roach@XXXXXX>
To: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
CC: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Plastic Painting

Mark Kitchell wrote:

> Who paints fairings around here?

Mark -

We do, and can usually arrange pickup and delivery to NoVA ... what are
you looking to have done?

- Bri


--
http://www.speedwerks.com
The one-stop shop for all your motorcycling needs!
(302) 672 - 7223

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat May 15 19:24:51 2004
Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 19:24:38 -0400
From: Skip Smith <Skip@XXXXXX>
To: Patrick Carter <dpc2@XXXXXX>
CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE FRAUD

dude.  get the cashier's check, and hang it on your wall.

I've got 3 for a total of $19,000.  It makes a great conversation
started. :~)

Patrick Carter wrote:
>
> Ok thanks guys.  The consinsous is to walk away from this deal.  Should I
> even reply to offer him only 2 options?  The paypal option or the
> www.escrow.com option.  Or just walk away totally?
>
>  Either way I am not going for that cashiers check deal.
>
> Pat
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Kitchell" <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
> To: "Patrick Carter" <dpc2@XXXXXX>; <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
> Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 11:39 AM
> Subject: Re: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE FRAUD
>
> > DON'T DO IT.  That is a scam.  He will steal your
> > money.  That person is clearly not a native english
> > speaker.
> >
> > Craigslist is full of them.
> >
> >
> > --- Patrick Carter <dpc2@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > > With all the fraud talk latey I thought I would run
> > > this by you all.
> > >
> > > Ok is this fishy to anyone?  I posted an ad to sell
> > > some pocket/mini bikes
> > > on craigs list.  I get a responce from this guy, but
> > > the way he wants to go
> > > about the transaction is a little funny.  Since we
> > > are talking about a $2000
> > > refund wired back to him and two $900 bikes, rather
> > > be safe than be out
> > > $4000.
> > >
> > > If he gives me a cashiers check how soon would a
> > > bank know if it is phoney?
> > > Can cashiers check come back bounced since you have
> > > to have the cash the
> > > order the check?
> > >
> > > Opinions?  Suggestions?
> > >
> > > thanks,
> > > Pat
> > >
> > > Read below:
> > >
> > >
> > > Jerry,
> > > I am a little confused.  Just to clarify.  You want
> > > 2 bikes for $1800.  Your
> > > giving me $120 for running around.  Your client will
> > > be giving me a cashiers
> > > check of $4000.  I cash the check.  Deduct $1920.
> > > Meet your shipper with
> > > the bikes and wire the remaining $2080 to you
> > > shipper using western union.
> > >
> > > My name info is:
> > > Patrick Carter
> > > #### street name
> > > Fairfax, VA  22033
> > > 703-###-####
> > >
> > > Just out of curiosity, where is your location?  Is
> > > there a phone number I
> > > can reach you incase there are any other question,
> > > concerns, or problems?
> > > Can you please give me your clients information and
> > > your shippers
> > > information?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Pat
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "jerry rogers" <jerryrgs@XXXXXX>
> > > To: "Patrick Carter" <dpc2@XXXXXX>
> > > Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 3:02 AM
> > > Subject: payment and trust
> > >
> > >
> > > > Thanks for the mail i will buy the for
> > > $1800.Payment will be made via a
> > > cachiers check of  $4000 by a client of mine in the
> > > state an amount oweing,
> > > so  it can be cashed at any local outlets in your
> > > area.All i need from you
> > > is  your full name and address including phone
> > > number so i can fax it to my
> > > client. Pickup arrangement will be made by my
> > > shipper, so as soon as you
> > > recieve payment you will deduct your actual amount
> > > and extra $120 for
> > > running around and wired the rest of the funs to my
> > > shipper via western
> > > union money transfer who will be at your location
> > > for the pick up. confirm
> > > this and get back to me with neccessary details. I
> > > await your response
> > > > Jerry
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Patrick Carter" <dpc2@XXXXXX>
> > > > Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:06:44 -0400
> > > > To: "jerry rogers" <jerryrgs@XXXXXX>
> > > > Subject: Re: 2004 mini sport bike / pocket bike -
> > > $900
> > > >
> > > > > Well call me and we can set up a time and place
> > > to make the transaction.
> > > > > The price is the same as in the ad $900 each.
> > > The condition is band
> > > new.
> > > > > No fuel has ever been added to the tank.  I have
> > > many in stock.  Just
> > > let me
> > > > > know what color you want.  I have Red, Blue,
> > > Black, Yellow and Silver.
> > > > >
> > > > > 703-906-2906
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > Pat
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "jerry rogers" <jerryrgs@XXXXXX>
> > > > > To: <dpc2@XXXXXX>
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:10 PM
> > > > > Subject: 2004 mini sport bike / pocket bike -
> > > $900
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > I Saw your advert and am highly interested in
> > > buying it, kindly get
> > > back
> > > > > to me with your last offering price and the
> > > present condition of the
> > > above
> > > > > mentioned item.
> > > > > > Thanks.
> > > > > > Rogers
> > > > > > --
> > > > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Get your free email from
> > > http://mymail.dbzmail.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Powered by Outblaze
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Get your free email from http://mymail.dbzmail.com
> > > >
> > > > Powered by Outblaze
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price.
> > http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/
> >

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat May 15 21:27:18 2004
From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 21:27:03 EDT
Subject: Stolen tag
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

Well folks, my day started off shitty.  I went down to my buildings parking
garage to get the bike to head out to catch a movie and, guess what I find, the
license plate GONE from the back of my bike.  Not only mine but, the GoldWing
parked beside me is also missing his tag.  It happened sometime between
Tuesday night and this morning.

Thing is, when I went out on it Tueday night, one screw was missing from the
bracket.  I originally thought it just fell out somewhere.  Now I'm wondering
if I interrupted someone stealing my plate.  I had a spare screw in my car's
toolbox, put it in and didn't think about it again.

Called the cops and filed a police report.  Headed out to Springfield Mall
DMV, waited 30 minutes, paid $10 and got a new tag and stickers.  Still went and
caught my movie (Van Helsing, excellent BTW) but, that little incident threw
off the rest of my day.  If this one disappears I guess I'll have to take it
off every time I'm not riding the bike.

Anyway, if you're out riding and spot a VA MC tag number 92921, call the cops
and tell them you've found a bike with a stolen plate.

I'm gonna miss that plate.  It was very easy to remember.  :-(

Scooter (2000 r/w/b YZF R6)
AFRA #17

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun May 16 01:43:35 2004
From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 01:43:15 EDT
Subject: Re: Stolen tag
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

In a message dated 5/15/2004 9:27:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
ScooterFZR@XXXXXX writes:

> If this one disappears I guess I'll have to take it
>  off every time I'm not riding the bike.

Or you could install an alarm. It is a _long_ way from perfect, but will keep
the kiddies at bay.
(I finally installed one last week after my bike was "fiddled" with several
times at work. Hate the damn things, but I hate having my bike messed with
more.)


John.
PenguinBiker@XXXXXX

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun May 16 15:20:43 2004
From: "Paul Wilson" <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
To: <ScooterFZR@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Stolen tag
Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 15:18:41 -0400

You could try some theft-resistant license plate bolts.  They sell them at
my neighborhood hardware.

Paul in DC -- www.wilsonline.org
95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour]
----- Original Message -----
From: <ScooterFZR@XXXXXX>


> Well folks, my day started off shitty.  I went down to my buildings
parking
> garage to get the bike to head out to catch a movie and, guess what I
find, the
> license plate GONE from the back of my bike.  .....

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun May 16 20:35:20 2004
From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 20:35:06 EDT
Subject: Re: Stolen tag
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

In a message dated 5/15/2004 11:34:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
bob@XXXXXX writes:
Get some tamper resistant screws:

http://www.brycefastener.com/support.htm

http://www.tamperproof.com/security-Fasteners.cfm

Or do a google search on:  screws "tamper resistant"

Bob Meyer


Thanks.  I'll check them out.

Scooter (2000 r/w/b YZF R6)
AFRA #17

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun May 16 20:36:47 2004
From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 20:36:38 EDT
Subject: Re: Stolen tag
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

In a message dated 5/16/2004 1:43:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
PenguinBiker@XXXXXX writes:
In a message dated 5/15/2004 9:27:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
ScooterFZR@XXXXXX writes:

> If this one disappears I guess I'll have to take it
>  off every time I'm not riding the bike.

Or you could install an alarm. It is a _long_ way from perfect, but will keep
the kiddies at bay.
(I finally installed one last week after my bike was "fiddled" with several
times at work. Hate the damn things, but I hate having my bike messed with
more.)


John.
PenguinBiker@XXXXXX


Thanks.  Been thinking about that also.  I never did before since I park in a
parking garage.

Scooter (2000 r/w/b YZF R6)
AFRA #17

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 17 07:46:51 2004
From: "John White" <kokopellian@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Giving us a bad rep..
Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 07:35:33 -0400

Stories like this really piss me off!

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/Northeast/05/16/parade.accident.ap/index.html


From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 17 09:12:51 2004
Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 09:14:13 -0400
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Dan Brown <brown@XXXXXX>
Subject: Enforcement activities?



Did anyone go out over 211 yesterday? I was coming home (in the car) from
a weekend outing with my wife and came down off of the parkway, heading
East. We were greeted by several VA state police officers who appeared to
have some sort of checkpoint setup down by where Cooter's place used to be.


The whole line of cars I was with were not stopped. I'm guessing that they
were looking for motorcycles and checking paperwork, but they didn't appear
to have any customers while I was there.

Anyone have any idea what was going on?






--
Resist or Serve

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 17 09:51:33 2004
Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 09:51:27 -0400
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Giving us a bad rep..

At 07:35 AM 5/17/2004, John White wrote:
>Stories like this really piss me off!

Why?  From the brief article, it sounds like he was in a parade.  I'm sure
the crowd was cheering him for the other wheelies he pulled while the
police looked away.



___________________________________________
     Mike Troutman
         http://www.troutman.org/vfr
         1997 Honda VFR 750
            AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/
            NMA http://www.motorists.org

One who knows the enemy and knows himself
will not be in danger in a hundred battles.
One who does not know the enemy but knows himself
will sometimes win, sometimes lose.
One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself
will be in danger in every battle.
  - Sun Tzu

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 17 09:57:42 2004
Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 06:57:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Giving us a bad rep..
To: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX

i think he meant he was tired of squids like this giving
bikers capable of riding a controlled wheelie a bad name.

remember, stuntaz, you are representing all of us out
there!



--- Troutman <mike@XXXXXX> wrote:
> At 07:35 AM 5/17/2004, John White wrote:
> >Stories like this really piss me off!
>
> Why?  From the brief article, it sounds like he was in a
> parade.  I'm sure
> the crowd was cheering him for the other wheelies he
> pulled while the
> police looked away.





__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price.
http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 17 09:58:33 2004
From: "Sean Steele" <sean@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 09:58:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Giving us a bad rep..

I'd tend to agree -- I file this under the same sub-heading as something
like "Shriner Mini Car Careens Off Parade Route, Collides with Spectators".

What gets me are the wheelies and stoppies and general shenanigans on
public roads.

-Sean

Troutman wrote:

> At 07:35 AM 5/17/2004, John White wrote:
>
>> Stories like this really piss me off!
>
> Why?  From the brief article, it sounds like he was in a parade.  I'm
> sure the crowd was cheering him for the other wheelies he pulled while
> the police looked away.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 17 11:31:05 2004
Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 06:13:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: Product Review: Kisan Trailblazer
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

I recently purchased the Kisan Trailblazer for my 1991
VFR.  When replacing a brake light bulb this winter I
noticed how dim the entire set-up was.  I researched
some brighter bulbs on the net which led me to Kisan.

The Trailblazer offers rapidly flashing brakelights
which flash at a faster rate when the brake is
initally activated and within 4 seconds revert to full
on (if the brake remains activated).  This is NOT done
via an installed electronic box.  Instead, Kisan makes
a completely new bulb housing that fits right into any
VFR's standard brakelight assembly.

The bulb is a standard halogen which fits into a
circuitboard/bulb housing.  Installation is simple:
remove old bulb, install new bulb.  According to
Kisan, the halogen will not burn too hot (as some
halogens do).  They reported only one plastic melting
as a result of use of this product.

Since the VFR requires two bulbs, the price is $99.99
(includes extra halogen bulb replacement) but for a
single bulb the price is $59.99.  The unit can easily
be removed if the bike is sold.

No affiliation with Kisan, YMMV.

Mark

http://www.kisantech.com/kisanWeb3/frameSample.htm




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price.
http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 17 11:55:42 2004
From: "Rob Sharp" <rob@XXXXXX>
To: "Sean Steele" <sean@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Giving us a bad rep..
Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 11:57:20 -0400

The next person who says "shenanigans" is going to get pistol whipped!!

- Super Troopers.


Rob

On Mon, 17 May 2004 09:58:12 -0400, Sean Steele wrote
> I'd tend to agree -- I file this under the same sub-heading as
> something like "Shriner Mini Car Careens Off Parade Route, Collides
> with Spectators".
>
> What gets me are the wheelies and stoppies and general shenanigans
> on public roads.
>
> -Sean
>
> Troutman wrote:
>
> > At 07:35 AM 5/17/2004, John White wrote:
> >
> >> Stories like this really piss me off!
> >
> > Why?  From the brief article, it sounds like he was in a parade.  I'm
> > sure the crowd was cheering him for the other wheelies he pulled while
> > the police looked away.


--
Rob Sharp
1996 Honda VFR 750
2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme
SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA
Network Security Engineer

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 17 11:58:03 2004
From: Richard Westbrook <RichardW@XXXXXX>
To: Patrick Carter <dpc2@XXXXXX>, "'Skip Smith'" <Skip@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE FRAUD
Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 11:54:15 -0400

This is also great for impressing the ladies (or guys). Leave a couple of
$10,000 checks on your coffee table or pull one out of the cushions in the
couch and just say "Gees, not another one of these!"


-Rich

> ----------
> From: 	Skip Smith
> Sent: 	Saturday, May 15, 2004 7:24 PM
> To: 	Patrick Carter
> Cc: 	dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> Subject: 	Re: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE FRAUD
>
> dude.  get the cashier's check, and hang it on your wall.
>
> I've got 3 for a total of $19,000.  It makes a great conversation
> started. :~)
>
> Patrick Carter wrote:
> >
> > Ok thanks guys.  The consinsous is to walk away from this deal.  Should
> I
> > even reply to offer him only 2 options?  The paypal option or the
> > www.escrow.com option.  Or just walk away totally?
> >
> >  Either way I am not going for that cashiers check deal.
> >
> > Pat
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Mark Kitchell" <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
> > To: "Patrick Carter" <dpc2@XXXXXX>; <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
> > Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 11:39 AM
> > Subject: Re: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE FRAUD
> >
> > > DON'T DO IT.  That is a scam.  He will steal your
> > > money.  That person is clearly not a native english
> > > speaker.
> > >
> > > Craigslist is full of them.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- Patrick Carter <dpc2@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > > > With all the fraud talk latey I thought I would run
> > > > this by you all.
> > > >
> > > > Ok is this fishy to anyone?  I posted an ad to sell
> > > > some pocket/mini bikes
> > > > on craigs list.  I get a responce from this guy, but
> > > > the way he wants to go
> > > > about the transaction is a little funny.  Since we
> > > > are talking about a $2000
> > > > refund wired back to him and two $900 bikes, rather
> > > > be safe than be out
> > > > $4000.
> > > >
> > > > If he gives me a cashiers check how soon would a
> > > > bank know if it is phoney?
> > > > Can cashiers check come back bounced since you have
> > > > to have the cash the
> > > > order the check?
> > > >
> > > > Opinions?  Suggestions?
> > > >
> > > > thanks,
> > > > Pat
> > > >
> > > > Read below:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Jerry,
> > > > I am a little confused.  Just to clarify.  You want
> > > > 2 bikes for $1800.  Your
> > > > giving me $120 for running around.  Your client will
> > > > be giving me a cashiers
> > > > check of $4000.  I cash the check.  Deduct $1920.
> > > > Meet your shipper with
> > > > the bikes and wire the remaining $2080 to you
> > > > shipper using western union.
> > > >
> > > > My name info is:
> > > > Patrick Carter
> > > > #### street name
> > > > Fairfax, VA  22033
> > > > 703-###-####
> > > >
> > > > Just out of curiosity, where is your location?  Is
> > > > there a phone number I
> > > > can reach you incase there are any other question,
> > > > concerns, or problems?
> > > > Can you please give me your clients information and
> > > > your shippers
> > > > information?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Pat
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "jerry rogers" <jerryrgs@XXXXXX>
> > > > To: "Patrick Carter" <dpc2@XXXXXX>
> > > > Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 3:02 AM
> > > > Subject: payment and trust
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Thanks for the mail i will buy the for
> > > > $1800.Payment will be made via a
> > > > cachiers check of  $4000 by a client of mine in the
> > > > state an amount oweing,
> > > > so  it can be cashed at any local outlets in your
> > > > area.All i need from you
> > > > is  your full name and address including phone
> > > > number so i can fax it to my
> > > > client. Pickup arrangement will be made by my
> > > > shipper, so as soon as you
> > > > recieve payment you will deduct your actual amount
> > > > and extra $120 for
> > > > running around and wired the rest of the funs to my
> > > > shipper via western
> > > > union money transfer who will be at your location
> > > > for the pick up. confirm
> > > > this and get back to me with neccessary details. I
> > > > await your response
> > > > > Jerry
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Patrick Carter" <dpc2@XXXXXX>
> > > > > Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:06:44 -0400
> > > > > To: "jerry rogers" <jerryrgs@XXXXXX>
> > > > > Subject: Re: 2004 mini sport bike / pocket bike -
> > > > $900
> > > > >
> > > > > > Well call me and we can set up a time and place
> > > > to make the transaction.
> > > > > > The price is the same as in the ad $900 each.
> > > > The condition is band
> > > > new.
> > > > > > No fuel has ever been added to the tank.  I have
> > > > many in stock.  Just
> > > > let me
> > > > > > know what color you want.  I have Red, Blue,
> > > > Black, Yellow and Silver.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 703-906-2906
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > Pat
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "jerry rogers" <jerryrgs@XXXXXX>
> > > > > > To: <dpc2@XXXXXX>
> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:10 PM
> > > > > > Subject: 2004 mini sport bike / pocket bike -
> > > > $900
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I Saw your advert and am highly interested in
> > > > buying it, kindly get
> > > > back
> > > > > > to me with your last offering price and the
> > > > present condition of the
> > > > above
> > > > > > mentioned item.
> > > > > > > Thanks.
> > > > > > > Rogers
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > Get your free email from
> > > > http://mymail.dbzmail.com
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Powered by Outblaze
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Get your free email from http://mymail.dbzmail.com
> > > > >
> > > > > Powered by Outblaze
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price.
> > > http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/
> > >
>
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 17 12:34:43 2004
From: "Custer, Carl" <Carl.Custer@XXXXXX>
To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Stolen tag
Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 12:36:43 -0400

I attached my tags with SS Allen head bolts and nylon insert nuts.
Not perfect but the jerk with a screwdriver will move on to the ones
attached with screws.

payment and trust

Skip Said:
"dude.  get the cashier's check, and hang it on your wall.
I've got 3 for a total of $19,000.  It makes a great conversation started.
:~"

Kewl, heah yew go:

-----Original Message-----
From: wangqin_4@XXXXXX [mailto:wangqin_4@XXXXXX]
Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 9:42 AM
Subject: PLEASE ASSIST


SINCERE ASSOCIATE REQUIRED
MR. WANG QIN
HANG SENG BANK LTD.
DES VOEUX RD. BRANCH,
CENTRAL HONG KONG,
HONK KONG.

Dear Sir,


Let me start by introducing myself. I am Mr. Wang Qin
credit officer of the Hang Seng Bank Ltd.  I have a concealed business
suggestion for you.


Before the U.S and Iraqi war our client General. Ibrahim Moussa who was with
the Iraqi forces and also business man made a numbered fixed deposit for 18
calendar months, with a value of Twenty millions Five Hundred Thousand
United State Dollars only in my branch. Upon maturity several notice was
sent to him, even during the war early this year. Again after the war
another notification was sent and still no response came from him. We later
find out that the General and his family had been killed during the war in
bomb blast that hit their home.

After further investigation it was also discovered that Gen. Ibrahim Moussa
did not declare any next of kin in his official papers including the paper
work of his bank deposit. And he also confided in me the last time he was at
my office that no one except me knew of his deposit in my bank. So, Twenty
millions Five Hundred Thousand United State Dollars is still lying in my
bank and no one will ever come forward to claim it. What bothers me most is
that according to the to the laws of my country at the expiration 3 years
the funds will revert to the ownership of the Hong Kong Government if nobody
applies to claim the funds.

Against this backdrop, my suggestion to you is that I will like you as a
foreigner to stand as the next of kin to Gen. Ibrahim Moussa so that you
will be able to receive his funds.


WHAT IS TO BE DONE:

I want you to know that I have had everything planned out so that we shall
come out successful. I have contacted an attorney that will prepare the
necessary document that will back you up as the next of kin to Gen. Ibrahim
Moussa, all that is required from you at this stage is for you to provide me
with your Full Names and Address so that the attorney can commence his job.
After you have been made the next of kin, the attorney will also fill in for
claims on your behalf and secure the necessary approval and letter of
probate in your favor for the move of the funds to an account that will be
provided by you.

There is no risk involved at all in the matter as we are going adopt a
legalized method and the attorney will prepare all the necessary documents.
Please endeavor to observe utmost discretion in all matters concerning this
issue.

Once the funds have been transferred to your nominated bank account we shall
share in the ratio of 70% for me, 25% for you and 5% for any expenses
incurred during the course of this operation.

Should you be interested please send me your full names and current
residential address for easy communication and I will provide you
with more details of this operation.

Your earliest response to this letter will be appreciated

Kind Regards

Mr. Wang  Qin
__________________________________________________
Broadband from an unbeatable )B£15.99!

http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadband/home.html?code=SM-NL-11AM

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 17 12:45:10 2004
Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 09:45:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
Reply-To: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
To: "Custer,Carl" <Carl.Custer@XXXXXX>,
   "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Stolen tag



-----Original Message-----
From: "Custer, Carl" <Carl.Custer@XXXXXX>


I attached my tags with SS Allen head bolts and nylon insert nuts.
Not perfect but the jerk with a screwdriver will move on to the ones
attached with screws.

------

I just use regular hex-head bolts on my KLR.   I figure not too many thieves carry two wrenches with them.

Anyhoo, there are those sticky-fingered so and so's out there that will steal anything that not nailed down, and a goodly percentage of those things that are.  I read that in the early days of the subways in NYC in the early 1900s, electricity was still something of a novelty and the subways used thousands of the new-fangled light bulbs.  Naturally, when presented with targets of opportunity, people started helping themselves.  So, the subway installed special reverse threaded sockets and reverse threaded bulbs to put a stop to it.  Steal the bulb, but you couldn't use it anywhere else.

Ain't human nature grand?

Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org
95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour]

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 17 13:37:58 2004
Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 13:39:14 -0400
To: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>,
   "Custer,Carl" <Carl.Custer@XXXXXX>,
   "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Stolen tag

At 09:45 AM 5/17/04 -0700, Paul Wilson wrote:

>Anyhoo, there are those sticky-fingered so and so's out there that will
steal anything that not nailed down, and a goodly percentage of those
things that are.

I used to know a guy whose motto was "Anything not nailed down is mine.
Anything I can pry loose is not nailed down."  May he rest in peace...

>Ain't human nature grand?

More like sub-human nature.  Humans don't do that sort of thing.

-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 17 14:32:09 2004
Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 09:21:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: REALLY need some help posting Bike Night Flyers
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

I really need some help posting Bike Night flyers
today or tomorrow.  If anyone can post at a local
shop, please email me ASAP.  Poster can be printed
from:

http://www.geocities.com/bikenight/bikenight0504.pdf

OR

http://www.geocities.com/bikenight/

Also, has anyone cross posted on other Moto lists?
Please let me know.

Mark





__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price.
http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 17 14:46:10 2004
Subject: RE: REALLY need some help posting Bike Night Flyers
Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 14:50:11 -0400
From: "Julian Halton" <julian@XXXXXX>
To: "Mark Kitchell" <markkitchell@XXXXXX>,
   "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Yup Mike....
Told everyone I know
Posted to dcsportbikes.com
My suggestions...
Let it be known at the waterfront, the gas station, and barnes and noble
in rockville Thursday night.
I am tending bar Thursday or I would head up there myself..

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Kitchell [mailto:markkitchell@XXXXXX]
Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 12:22 PM
To: DC Cycles
Subject: REALLY need some help posting Bike Night Flyers

I really need some help posting Bike Night flyers today or tomorrow.  If
anyone can post at a local shop, please email me ASAP.  Poster can be
printed
from:

http://www.geocities.com/bikenight/bikenight0504.pdf

OR

http://www.geocities.com/bikenight/

Also, has anyone cross posted on other Moto lists?
Please let me know.

Mark





__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price.
http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/




From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 17 16:08:16 2004
Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 16:07:52 -0400
To: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Subject: Janklow Released Today

http://www.billingsgazette.com/index.php?id=1&display=rednews/2004/05/17/build/nation/48-janklow.inc

100 days and almost $11k

I wonder if Randy Scott's family is filing a civil suit for wrongful death?


___________________________________________
     Mike Troutman
         http://www.troutman.org/vfr
         1997 Honda VFR 750
            AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/
            NMA http://www.motorists.org

One who knows the enemy and knows himself
will not be in danger in a hundred battles.
One who does not know the enemy but knows himself
will sometimes win, sometimes lose.
One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself
will be in danger in every battle.
  - Sun Tzu

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 17 22:11:08 2004
Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 22:09:17 -0400
Subject: Tail Blazer downside
From: Bob McKeithen <bmckeithen@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

I have had one for about three years now. The downside--the bulb is a
single filament, so if it expires you have no lights to the rear--
brake or tail. Check it each time you mount up.
Bob

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 17 22:30:25 2004
From: "lisagoddard" <lisagoddard@XXXXXX>
To: "dccycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Bike Virginia?
Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 22:34:34 -0400



Hi fellow cyclists/motorcyclists,

Is anyone out there participating in the 2004, 17th annual Ride Virginia
either as a bicyclist or motorcycle escort??

Lisa Goddard
'95 VFR
'97 GSXR 600 track bike
'97 XR100, new!


From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 18 05:31:45 2004
Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 05:29:55 -0400
Subject: H-D for sale--post for a pal
From: Bob McKeithen <bmckeithen@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

'97 FLHTCUI (Electra Glide Classic FI)
14,xxx miles
Maroon and charcoal
Fresh tires
Fresh oil service
P-M rear caliper
Screamin' Eagle mufflers
K&N intake system
Extra Chrome stuff
never rained on?????
I know this bike --immaculate--located in Purcellville, Va
this guy is an owner not a rider
email me for phone #

Bob

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 18 07:09:34 2004
Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 07:08:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: dan <dan@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Moto Travel Website: Ghost Town

On Fri, 2 Apr 2004, Mark Kitchell wrote:

> Hello DC Cycles.  I have been off the list for a while
> but this has motivated me to join back up and share
> with you.
>
> I just spent 20 minutes going through this website.  I
> can promise you, none of us has ever gone on rides
> like this.
>
> http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/kiddofspeed/
>
> Mark
>

I guess this one is going down as one of the better internet stories:

http://www.uer.ca/forum_showthread.asp?fid=1&threadid=8951

and her update:

http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/kiddofspeed/




From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 18 08:07:23 2004
From: Jim Shoemaker <shoe@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Bike Virginia?
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 08:07:18 -0400

On Mon, 17 May 2004 22:34:34 -0400
 "lisagoddard" <lisagoddard@XXXXXX> wrote:

> Is anyone out there participating in the 2004, 17th annual Ride Virginia
> either as a bicyclist or motorcycle escort??
>

Yep.  I think this'll be my 8th Bike VA, all of which have been by bicycle.
 I think moto escort would be fun, too.

--Jim

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 18 10:00:37 2004
Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 10:00:28 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
From: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
Reply-To: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Pa. has bad case of gas....

Uh, make that a case of bad gas.

http://www.nbc10.com/news/3249116/detail.html

Bad Gas Suspected Of Damaging Cars
Pennsylvania Lacks Fuel Quality Law
POSTED: 12:10 am EDT April 29, 2004
KNOX, Pa. -- Sandy Myers' 2003 Hyundai Sonata was towed twice before mechanics found contaminated gas had clogged up the fuel filter and damaged the fuel pump, costing her $757 for repairs.

The culprit was a mysterious white, powdery residue that Myers described as a type of calcium buildup.

In Pennsylvania, Ohio and West Virginia, dozens of people are complaining of contaminated fuel in their vehicles, prompting two state agencies to launch separate probes. Fuel quality officials in West Virginia have visited the northern panhandle to collect samples, and the Pennsylvania Attorney General's Office has received 34 complaints and more than 100 inquiries.




See also:

http://www.thederrick.com/stories/04302004-5004.shtml

http://www.fox66.tv/news/default.asp?mode=shownews&id=4276

Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org
95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour]

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 18 10:03:50 2004
Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 10:03:44 -0400
From: "Chris Norloff" <cnorloff@XXXXXX>
Reply-To: <cnorloff@XXXXXX>
To: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>, Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Janklow Released Today

If they do sue, we'll likely be paying the bills.  U.S. Attorney Tom Heffelfinger has decided that Janklow was "on duty" when he killed Scott - so the Federal Gov't is now the defendant and taxpayers will pay for Janklow's actions.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,114284,00.html

Chris

---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Date:  Mon, 17 May 2004 16:07:52 -0400

>http://www.billingsgazette.com/index.php?id=1&display=rednews/2004/05/17/build/nation/48-janklow.inc
>
>100 days and almost $11k
>
>I wonder if Randy Scott's family is filing a civil suit for wrongful death?
>
>
>___________________________________________
>     Mike Troutman
>         http://www.troutman.org/vfr
>         1997 Honda VFR 750
>            AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/
>            NMA http://www.motorists.org
>
>One who knows the enemy and knows himself
>will not be in danger in a hundred battles.
>One who does not know the enemy but knows himself
>will sometimes win, sometimes lose.
>One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself
>will be in danger in every battle.
>  - Sun Tzu
>
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 18 13:41:20 2004
Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 10:27:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: Lisa Goddard, please email me!
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Thanks




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price.
http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 18 14:30:47 2004
From: "Gary Foreman" <lists@XXXXXX>
To: "'DC Cycles'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Does this look familular?
Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 14:33:47 -0400

I have an FJ1100/1200 Ported and Polished head for sale.  I got an email
last night asking about it, and gave the guy a price.  Here's what I got
today:




Goodday Gary,
Thanks a lot for the mail, sorry i couldn't get back to Immediately. i am
still very much intrested in purchasing your FJ1100/FJ1200 Head i will offer
you $1,500,i am okay with it,Concerning the payment ,A very good client of
in the state is oweing me the sum of $6,500 US dollars only, he will issue
out a certified cashier check drawn in a US Funds that you can cashed at
your Bank or at Any cashing point in your location. As soon as you recieved
the payment,take it to cashing point and cash it Immediately get the check
cashed there,and you hold out your amount, And send the Excess funds which
it is balance to my International Shipping Agent That will be for the
picking up at your Location.I hope i can trust you with my balance that will
be sent to my shipping Agent . Do get back to me with your contact details
like this:
Name you want on check:
Home Address:
City:
State:
Country:
Phone Number/Office Number:
so that payment will be made out to you Immediately..bye and have great day.
Regards to you and your family. I look forward to hearing from you Today.













From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 18 15:02:12 2004
Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 15:02:10 -0400
To: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Subject: Moto Blog

Last week someone was asking about moto blogs.  I noticed this today.

http://motorcycle-blog.com/

it was linked from http://blogs.motorbiker.org/blogs.nsf


___________________________________________
     Mike Troutman
         http://www.troutman.org/vfr
         1997 Honda VFR 750
            AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/
            NMA http://www.motorists.org

One who knows the enemy and knows himself
will not be in danger in a hundred battles.
One who does not know the enemy but knows himself
will sometimes win, sometimes lose.
One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself
will be in danger in every battle.
  - Sun Tzu

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 18 15:17:06 2004
Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 15:17:27 -0400
To: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Subject: These are the news stories that piss ME off ...

http://www.thedailyreview.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=11668288&BRD=2276&PAG=461&dept_id=465049&rfi=6
"I didn't see him" says 82 yo driver

http://www.ktbs.com/news-detail.html?cityid=1&hid=23873
15 year old in street drag hits injures multiple occupants

I have two cicadas on my desk.  I am considering racing them and eating the
loser.
  - slow work day


___________________________________________
     Mike Troutman
         http://www.troutman.org/vfr
         1997 Honda VFR 750
            AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/
            NMA http://www.motorists.org

One who knows the enemy and knows himself
will not be in danger in a hundred battles.
One who does not know the enemy but knows himself
will sometimes win, sometimes lose.
One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself
will be in danger in every battle.
  - Sun Tzu

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 18 15:21:48 2004
Subject: RE: Moto Blog
Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 15:25:51 -0400
From: "Julian Halton" <julian@XXXXXX>
To: "Troutman" <mike@XXXXXX>, "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

www.strikingviking.net

The ultimate blog
The ultimate life


-----Original Message-----
From: Troutman [mailto:mike@XXXXXX]
Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 3:02 PM
To: DC Cycles
Subject: Moto Blog

Last week someone was asking about moto blogs.  I noticed this today.

http://motorcycle-blog.com/

it was linked from http://blogs.motorbiker.org/blogs.nsf


___________________________________________
     Mike Troutman
         http://www.troutman.org/vfr
         1997 Honda VFR 750
            AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/
            NMA http://www.motorists.org

One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a
hundred battles.
One who does not know the enemy but knows himself will sometimes win,
sometimes lose.
One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself will be in
danger in every battle.
  - Sun Tzu




From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 18 15:21:51 2004
Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 15:22:11 -0400
To: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Subject: NC considering repealing helmet law

Individual rights are lost on the young as shown in this article.
http://www.charlotte.com/mld/observer/news/opinion/8691611.htm?1c

...and I'm in my truck today.  My bike was making a weird oscillating
motion on the way home last night.  I think it is in the front end - under
acceleration it stopped doing it (lightening the front end I
believe).  I'll be stripping it down again tonight, then it is off to the
dealer if I can't figure it out.

In a related note, our grocery getter '97 Accord went in for service and
they wanted almost $500 to replace the CV boots.  Keep in mind, this is a
$10 item on 4 wheels.  I'll be doing THAT at home as well.

/rip-off


___________________________________________
     Mike Troutman
         http://www.troutman.org/vfr
         1997 Honda VFR 750
            AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/
            NMA http://www.motorists.org

One who knows the enemy and knows himself
will not be in danger in a hundred battles.
One who does not know the enemy but knows himself
will sometimes win, sometimes lose.
One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself
will be in danger in every battle.
  - Sun Tzu

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 18 19:41:17 2004
From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 19:41:01 EDT
Subject: Re: NC considering repealing helmet law
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

In a message dated 5/18/2004 3:22:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
mike@XXXXXX writes:

> I'll be stripping it down again tonight, then it is off to the
>  dealer if I can't figure it out.
>

FIRST!
Check your tire pressure.
This may seem simplistic, but I know of one instance where Honda wound up
replacing an entire motorcycle that would not handle correctly even after factory
reps checked it out (I saw the bike at a Honda facility) In the end it was
just tire pressure. Everyone just assumed that it had been checked...



New "bumper sticker" on the ST1100.

"Eat right, stay fit,
 DIE ANYWAY!"

John Walters (Long John)
PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Up near DC

Honda ST1100X Pan European
BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles
Honda 1976 CR250M  Motowhat racer

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 18 20:46:14 2004
Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 19:46:21 -0500
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, mike@XXXXXX
From: Sean Jordan <eternity23@XXXXXX>
Subject: Chernobyl "Ghost Town" stories were false!!!

Check out the following links . . .


http://www.uer.ca/forum_showthread.asp?fid=1&threadid=8951

http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/kiddofspeed/

- Sean Jordan

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 18 22:32:50 2004
Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 19:32:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Moto Blog
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

I've been thinking of more like a slashbike forum than a blog or standard
forum. A little more organized, news wise than an opinion forum as a blog
implies.

Carl

--- Troutman <mike@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Last week someone was asking about moto blogs.  I noticed this today.
>
> http://motorcycle-blog.com/
>
> it was linked from http://blogs.motorbiker.org/blogs.nsf
>
>
> ___________________________________________
>      Mike Troutman
>          http://www.troutman.org/vfr
>          1997 Honda VFR 750
>             AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/
>             NMA http://www.motorists.org
>
> One who knows the enemy and knows himself
> will not be in danger in a hundred battles.
> One who does not know the enemy but knows himself
> will sometimes win, sometimes lose.
> One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself
> will be in danger in every battle.
>   - Sun Tzu
>


=====
02 Harley FXSTI
95 Suzuki GSXR 750W
76 Honda Chopper (in progress)




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price.
http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 19 00:57:38 2004
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 00:58:32 -0400
To: Sean Jordan <eternity23@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX,
   mike@XXXXXX
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Chernobyl "Ghost Town" stories were false!!!

At 07:46 PM 5/18/04 -0500, Sean Jordan wrote:
>Check out the following links . . .
>
>http://www.uer.ca/forum_showthread.asp?fid=1&threadid=8951
>
>http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/kiddofspeed/

Well, there are claims that they are false anyway.  Who you gonna trust?


-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 19 09:20:42 2004
From: "W.S." <mobacc@XXXXXX>
To: "DC-Cycles" <DC-Cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Bad EZ-Pass charges (was Pa. has bad case of gas....)
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 09:20:12 -0400

Another headsup - from Sunday's WP Travel section - a little squib:

On EZ-Pass bill ". . .we'd paid six times the normal fee ($3) to go through
the Delaware toll plaza just south of the bridge . . . mistaken for a
16-axle tractor trailer. . . ."  "Snafu" said Delaware River & Bay Authority
and refunded $15.

Careful out there.


Bill S. / DC
'99 VN750 > Please double check for winter air going into tires.
Join the AMA.  Help protect my riding fun.


From: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
. . .snip

Bad Gas Suspected Of Damaging Cars

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 19 09:49:03 2004
From: "Rob Sharp" <rob@XXXXXX>
To: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>, Sean Jordan <eternity23@XXXXXX>,
   dc-cycles@XXXXXX, mike@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Chernobyl "Ghost Town" stories were false!!!
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 09:50:46 -0400

Sounds like she is at least in trouble that she took a ride through the zone
and then did a website about it.

Rob

On Wed, 19 May 2004 00:58:32 -0400, Mike Bartman wrote
> At 07:46 PM 5/18/04 -0500, Sean Jordan wrote:
> >Check out the following links . . .
> >
> >http://www.uer.ca/forum_showthread.asp?fid=1&threadid=8951
> >
> >http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/kiddofspeed/
>
> Well, there are claims that they are false anyway.  Who you gonna trust?
>
> -- Mike B.
>
> '04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-
> Harley folks)
>
> Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
> is better.


--
Rob Sharp
1996 Honda VFR 750
2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme
SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA
Network Security Engineer

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 19 10:35:13 2004
From: "Sean Steele" <sean@XXXXXX>
To: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 10:34:49 -0400
Subject: MetricBikes.com

Any listers have purchase experience or reviews of MetricBikes.com?
Their prices on apparel seem pretty good.

-Sean
Wash, DC
'92 Seca II

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 19 11:06:13 2004
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 08:05:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: Bike Paint Advice
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Hopefully some of you have some insight.  I have a
1991 VFR which was once pristine but years of city
living has left it quite a sight.  Scratched fairings,
dented tank, faded paint, scratches from the Givi
mounting hardware, etc.

I decided this year to try and restore some of her
glory.  My first thought was to buy used fairing parts
on Ebay.  I do have a nice tank I got for $42 .
However, my luck with fairings has not been so good. I
just bought a 'perfect condition' right mid that was
all scratched up.  New fairing for the peices I need
will cost me $800+ and won't even match with the
existing sun damaged peices.

This weekend I met with a guy (Kelvin) who was
recommended by Dennis at Crossroads
Cycles in Virginia.  Dennis portrayed him as a home
painter with good prices and good (not perfect)
quality.  I went to visit the guy and he does the work
in his back yard.  The paint job he had just done was
very good.  He also fixes broken plastic, which he
really does wonders with.  His ability to fix plastic
is going to mean I do not have to buy anymore plastic.

He recommends that rather than painting/repairing bits
and peices, I should just repaint the entire bike
(since the existing peices that are good have 10+
years of sun fading).  Since I pretty much have all of
the plastic peices I need, there will be almost no new
plastic costs.  His price to paint the entire bike
(plastic and tank) is $600.  This includes paint if I
agree to use (my color choice of course) automotive
paint from a local supplier.  If I want to use
Color-rite motorcycle-specific paint I need to make up
the difference in cost ($150 or so).

My question for the list is twofold: Does this seem
like a good deal, assuming the quality is good (I am
not expecting perfection, the bike is 10 years old and
lives on the streets of DC)?  Also, do you think I
should go with the auto paint or pay extra for the
Color-rite?  Can I find an auto paint that is a
similar red to Honda's Italian Red?

Thanks,

Mark

PS: Also, has anyone used Kelvin, based out of
Arlandria/Crystal City??









__________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 19 12:10:01 2004
From: Stephen Miller <freecat@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Bike Paint Advice
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 12:10:07 -0400
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Who cares about stock color on a 14-year old bike? Is it going to be in
classic bike shows someday? I say you should pick whatever PPG color
appeals to you, and forget about matching the stock color (I find PPG
to be high quality at a slightly less shocking price than, say, House
of Kolor). Be different.  I'm not saying you should put a TZ tail
section on the bike or spraybomb it different colors [nod in Chuck's
direction], but quality paint on all the bodywork and tank would look
very nice, even if Honda never used that particular color.  If the guy
is good enough, it might well look deeper and better than the original
paint.


On May 19, 2004, at 11:05 AM, Mark Kitchell wrote:
> His price to paint the entire bike
> (plastic and tank) is $600.  This includes paint if I
> agree to use (my color choice of course) automotive
> paint from a local supplier.  If I want to use
> Color-rite motorcycle-specific paint I need to make up
> the difference in cost ($150 or so).
>
> My question for the list is twofold: Does this seem
> like a good deal, assuming the quality is good (I am
> not expecting perfection, the bike is 10 years old and
> lives on the streets of DC)?  Also, do you think I
> should go with the auto paint or pay extra for the
> Color-rite?  Can I find an auto paint that is a
> similar red to Honda's Italian Red?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mark
>
> PS: Also, has anyone used Kelvin, based out of
> Arlandria/Crystal City??
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price.
> http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 19 12:42:55 2004
Subject: RE: Bike Paint Advice
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 12:42:46 -0400
From: "Verde, Robert" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>
To: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Mark;

I had my older Honda VF750 repainted by an auto-body shop in Portland.  The job cost $700.00, but was low-balled, the estimator told me that the shop probably lost money on the job due to the amount of sanding and prep work required.

I speced a nice deep red that came as stock on Volvo's, it looks quite similar to the Honda red, and it came in a epoxy paint formulation that did not require a clear top-coat.  My goal was to be able to buff out minor scratches and potentially touch up the color myself without the hassle of a two-layer paint scheme.  Has held up pretty well, but as I was warned, red is one of the colors that is prone to sunfading, so it is not as deep a red as when I took delivery of the parts.

As another data point, I had another bike repainted by a reputable local painter down in Triangle (who subsequently stopped painting bikes).  He charged $1100.00 for a gloss white pearl finish, very nice stuff, but took a coupld of tries due to some fish eyes in the finish after the first attempt.  Did the paint prep in his garage, used a rented booth to shoot the color, and was experienced with a wide variety of custom finishes.  I think I asked for a House of Kolor paint, but I honestly don't remember now.

Price you were quoted seems like a good deal, assuming you're satisfied with the job...  ;-/  Ask to see some other jobs he's done, get a reference that you can call, and make your decision based on your gut feel.  If you don't trust him to do a good job, odds are you won't be satisfied no matter how perfect it turns out.

Also, I think Stephen is absolutely correct, use this as an opportunity to pick a color you'll like, even if it's just another shade of red.  Porsche's Guard Red is a pretty spiffy color, or Toyota's Ticket-Me Red...  ;-)  Or go with another color from Honda's line, like the yellow, the blue (only offered on VFRs in Europe) or even the Asphalt Black (gray?) optional on this year's model VFR.  I'd just use the auto paints, but the price bump for a premium option doesn't seem excessive.

Robert


-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen Miller [mailto:freecat@XXXXXX]
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 12:10 PM
To: DC Cycles
Subject: Re: Bike Paint Advice


Who cares about stock color on a 14-year old bike? Is it going to be in
classic bike shows someday? I say you should pick whatever PPG color
appeals to you, and forget about matching the stock color (I find PPG
to be high quality at a slightly less shocking price than, say, House
of Kolor). Be different.  I'm not saying you should put a TZ tail
section on the bike or spraybomb it different colors [nod in Chuck's
direction], but quality paint on all the bodywork and tank would look
very nice, even if Honda never used that particular color.  If the guy
is good enough, it might well look deeper and better than the original
paint.


On May 19, 2004, at 11:05 AM, Mark Kitchell wrote:
> His price to paint the entire bike
> (plastic and tank) is $600.  This includes paint if I
> agree to use (my color choice of course) automotive
> paint from a local supplier.  If I want to use
> Color-rite motorcycle-specific paint I need to make up
> the difference in cost ($150 or so).
>
> My question for the list is twofold: Does this seem
> like a good deal, assuming the quality is good (I am
> not expecting perfection, the bike is 10 years old and
> lives on the streets of DC)?  Also, do you think I
> should go with the auto paint or pay extra for the
> Color-rite?  Can I find an auto paint that is a
> similar red to Honda's Italian Red?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mark
>
> PS: Also, has anyone used Kelvin, based out of
> Arlandria/Crystal City??
>
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 19 13:59:58 2004
Subject:  Magnetic Tank bag for Sale
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 14:03:35 -0400
From: "Julian Halton" <julian@XXXXXX>
To: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>,
   "Julian Halton" <julian@XXXXXX>


I have a tank bag for sale. It is one month old. Here are the specs:
Micro Hug Fiber(tm) base with strong lightweight magnets holds the bag
firm without slipping or marking bike
Foam construction holds bags shape even when empty
Highly reflective webbing
Interior features  soft tricot lining
Detachable map pocket and adjustable shoulder strap included
Waterproof rainstorm cover included
Measures 13"L X 9"W X 5"H

This bag is in perfect condition and the maker's name is Prostar.
I could not find it online when I did a search.
I paid $60.00 for the bag.  I am asking for $40.00.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 19 15:25:10 2004
From: Jason Picton <j_picton@XXXXXX>
To: "'Mark Kitchell'" <markkitchell@XXXXXX>,
   DC Cycles
	 <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Bike Paint Advice
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 14:24:34 -0400

I don't know this guy - but a buddy got his Ducati 900ss CR professionally
painted at a shop with motorcycle paint for 6 bills.......

Jason

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Kitchell [mailto:markkitchell@XXXXXX]
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 11:06 AM
To: DC Cycles
Subject: Bike Paint Advice


Hopefully some of you have some insight.  I have a
1991 VFR which was once pristine but years of city
living has left it quite a sight.  Scratched fairings,
dented tank, faded paint, scratches from the Givi
mounting hardware, etc.

I decided this year to try and restore some of her
glory.  My first thought was to buy used fairing parts
on Ebay.  I do have a nice tank I got for $42 .
However, my luck with fairings has not been so good. I
just bought a 'perfect condition' right mid that was
all scratched up.  New fairing for the peices I need
will cost me $800+ and won't even match with the
existing sun damaged peices.

This weekend I met with a guy (Kelvin) who was
recommended by Dennis at Crossroads
Cycles in Virginia.  Dennis portrayed him as a home
painter with good prices and good (not perfect)
quality.  I went to visit the guy and he does the work
in his back yard.  The paint job he had just done was
very good.  He also fixes broken plastic, which he
really does wonders with.  His ability to fix plastic
is going to mean I do not have to buy anymore plastic.

He recommends that rather than painting/repairing bits
and peices, I should just repaint the entire bike
(since the existing peices that are good have 10+
years of sun fading).  Since I pretty much have all of
the plastic peices I need, there will be almost no new
plastic costs.  His price to paint the entire bike
(plastic and tank) is $600.  This includes paint if I
agree to use (my color choice of course) automotive
paint from a local supplier.  If I want to use
Color-rite motorcycle-specific paint I need to make up
the difference in cost ($150 or so).

My question for the list is twofold: Does this seem
like a good deal, assuming the quality is good (I am
not expecting perfection, the bike is 10 years old and
lives on the streets of DC)?  Also, do you think I
should go with the auto paint or pay extra for the
Color-rite?  Can I find an auto paint that is a
similar red to Honda's Italian Red?

Thanks,

Mark

PS: Also, has anyone used Kelvin, based out of
Arlandria/Crystal City??









__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price.
http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 19 16:38:01 2004
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 13:37:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: cvkgpena@XXXXXX
Reply-To: cvkgpena@XXXXXX
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Bike Paint Advice

Excuse me, but I resemble that remark!

Stephen Miller <freecat@XXXXXX>

I'm not saying you should put a TZ tail section on the bike or spraybomb it different colors [nod in Chuck's
direction]

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 19 16:53:15 2004
Subject: Side Vertebrae Race boots red size 46 wanted
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 16:57:18 -0400
From: "Julian Halton" <julian@XXXXXX>
To: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>



SO far the best price I can find is 330 on newenough.com.  Anyone know
anywhere else to look?





From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 19 17:02:32 2004
From: Stephen Miller <freecat@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Bike Paint Advice
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 17:02:43 -0400
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

You just reminded me, Chuck, even your *brand new* CBR hasn't escaped
your spraybombing!!


On May 19, 2004, at 4:37 PM, cvkgpena@XXXXXX wrote:

> Excuse me, but I resemble that remark!
>
> Stephen Miller <freecat@XXXXXX> wrote:
>
> I'm not saying you should put a TZ tail section on the bike or
> spraybomb it different colors [nod in Chuck's
> direction]
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 19 19:15:54 2004
Subject: Why gear?
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 19:15:37 -0400
From: "Morrison, Brian" <BMorrison@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
X-WSS-ID: 6CB535102553782-01-01

Went for a great ride this weekend with some friends.  Two (on the same
bike, a Sportster) wore only 3/4 helmets, jeans and boots.  The rest of
us were of course outfitted in gloves, jeans, boots, full-face helmets
and armored textile or leather.

Today I broached the subject with them.  My friend claimed that it was
too hot.  I explained that my black joe rocket jacket is VERY close to
wearing nothing when you're moving, although it gets hot as hell at a
stand-still.  Even when hot, I think it's worth the protection.   She
also said that the only difference between her and me in a wreck would
be scratches.  I argued that even a low or mid-speed lowside could put
her in the hospital, whereas I would only need to change my underwear.

So she challenged me to produce empirical evidence or substantial
authority of the value of NON-HELMET gear.  (I understand the full-face
v. 3/4 issue, and so does she.  We're talking about gloves and jacket).


Part of the issue, of course, is style - they want to look like they
think Harley riders should look.  (Before any of you get insulted, admit
that there is a large contingent of Harley riders, whether minority or
not, who wear short or non-DOT helmets, no gloves, maybe a vest, etc.)
Accordingly, I need powerful evidence to overcome this.

Anyone have authority or evidence?

Thanks.

Brian

(I'm on digest, so cc my email if you would).


------------------------------------------------------------


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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 19 19:27:12 2004
From: "Michael Jordan" <mjordan812@XXXXXX>
To: "'Morrison, Brian'" <BMorrison@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Why gear?
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 19:27:00 -0400

> So she challenged me to produce empirical evidence or
> substantial authority of the value of NON-HELMET gear.  (I
> understand the full-face v. 3/4 issue, and so does she.
> We're talking about gloves and jacket).

I don't have the link to the guy's site with the major road rash that was
floating around here a week or so ago. Can anyone here provide Mr. Morrison
with that link?

It would seem to meet his requirement, as I recall.

Thanks

Michael J.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 19 19:41:18 2004
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 16:41:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Kozyn <mr_vfr@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: VFR Repaint for $600
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

Mark, I think this is a great deal _especially_ if he is going to do
the prep, which is time consuming. I got my VFR painted blue (the only
one like that in the area, btw ;) by A'ton Auto Body on Quincy. I think
I paid around 600 just for them to shoot color so you're getting a
deal. (N.B. re Ducati 900SS CR, there's a lot less plastic on that
compared to MK's VFR).

JK (D-mode)
1999 900SS
1995 VFR750F





__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year
http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 19 20:00:53 2004
From: "Sean Steele" <sean@XXXXXX>
To: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 20:00:27 -0400
Subject: A (im)Modest Proposal

Permit me to get philosophical for a moment.

Beyond the prosaic financial, spatial, and maintenance considerations of
buying a second (or newer/better/different) bike, how does one stay
happy with what they currently ride?  In our collective estimation, is
there any benefit to doing so (i.e., the arguable moral victory of
delayed gratification)?

Or is it true that he who dies with the most toys... wins?

-Sean "If a tree falls..." Steele
War-shington, DC
'92 Seca II <---- having a cartoon roast turkey daydream of a new CBR600

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 19 20:11:25 2004
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 20:10:49 -0400
From: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>
To: Sean Steele <sean@XXXXXX>
CC: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: A (im)Modest Proposal

Sean Steele wrote:
> Permit me to get philosophical for a moment.
>
> Beyond the prosaic financial, spatial, and maintenance considerations of
> buying a second (or newer/better/different) bike, how does one stay
> happy with what they currently ride?

Keep your main bike running well (eg. my Concours).  Get an older bike
that looks and runs like crap (the GS850G).  Ride the old beater
occasionally to remind yourself how good you have it on your other bike.

IMPORTANT NOTE:  Don't take test rides on newer/better machines.
Ignorance is bliss.  :)

Horkster

==
Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)

Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX '98 Concours - BugSlayer
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth      '99 Concours - Grape Nehi
CM #001 NRA IBA COG                  '82 GS850G - Neat old bike

The Mason Dixon 20-20 Endurance Rally:  The Games People Play
Come join us in 2004:   http://www.masondixon20-20.org

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 19 20:11:27 2004
From: "Thomas Jordan" <thomasajordan@XXXXXX>
To: "'DC Cycles'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Bike Paint Advice
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 20:11:23 -0400

I would personally stay away from single-stage paint. If he is using
automotive paint, make sure it is not the crap Mattos sells for $100/gallon.
It is ok for things that are getting painted semi-regularly and things that
don't have to look good. But not things that you want to be durable and good
looking. My 2 cents.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 19 20:36:58 2004
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 20:34:18 -0400
To: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: A (im)Modest Proposal

At 08:00 PM 5/19/2004, Sean Steele wrote:
>how does one stay happy with what they currently ride?

By finding a ride that fits your needs and riding style.  Worked for me.

Pulled the front end off tonight and put it back on.  Nice and straight, no
rotor warping or rubbing.  Chain slack was a bit loose, so I tightened it
up a bit.  I don't feel much of the oscillation anymore, but there is some
still there.  Just can't put my finger on it.  Still can't get the fuel
line off of the tank.  May take it in and have the line replaced along with
the brake lines and pads (or I guess I could just order the parts ;-)



_____________________________________
   Mike Troutman
        mike@XXXXXX
        http://www.troutman.org/vfr

         '97 Honda VFR 750
         AMA - http://www.amadirectlink.com/
         NMA - http://www.motorists.org

         "I'd rather die while I'm living, then live while I'm dead."
                 - Jimmy Buffett

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 19 20:36:59 2004
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 20:36:57 -0400
To: "Morrison, Brian" <BMorrison@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Why gear?

At 07:15 PM 5/19/2004, Morrison, Brian wrote:
>So she challenged me to produce empirical evidence or substantial
>authority of the value of NON-HELMET gear.  (I understand the full-face
>v. 3/4 issue, and so does she.  We're talking about gloves and jacket).

Besides the obvious road rash precaution, have you been hit with rocks that
cars kick up?  They hurt through my gear.  And flying cigarette butts don't
feel great on bare skin either.

In dead stopped traffic I take the FG Kenya off and stuff it between me and
the tank until it gets moving again.  Risk vs. heat stroke.




_____________________________________
   Mike Troutman
        mike@XXXXXX
        http://www.troutman.org/vfr

         '97 Honda VFR 750
         AMA - http://www.amadirectlink.com/
         NMA - http://www.motorists.org

         "I'd rather die while I'm living, then live while I'm dead."
                 - Jimmy Buffett

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 19 20:54:39 2004
From: "rich hall" <richallmc@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: MCs & Tolls
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 20:42:33 -0400

Went to the OBX this weekend (in car).  New (to me) Chesapeake Expressway
charges 50 cents for MCs and $2 for cars.  Since SmartTag is "not for MCs"
there is no way to get the discount w/ the tag, but nice to see they
recognize we don't put as much wear & tear on the road.

_________________________________________________________________
Learn to simplify your finances and your life in Streamline Your Life from
MSN Money. http://special.msn.com/money/0405streamline.armx

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 19 23:40:40 2004
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 23:40:04 -0400
To: "Morrison, Brian" <BMorrison@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Why gear?

At 07:15 PM 5/19/04 -0400, Morrison, Brian wrote:

>Part of the issue, of course, is style - they want to look like they
>think Harley riders should look.  (Before any of you get insulted, admit
>that there is a large contingent of Harley riders, whether minority or
>not, who wear short or non-DOT helmets, no gloves, maybe a vest, etc.)

I've not seen a Harley rider (or any other rider) in a helmet-requiring
state (like VA or MD) with a non-DOT helmet...and I've ridden with dozens
of them in the last few months.  Many do wear half-helmets, but all are
DOT-approved.  Some wear 3/4 helmets, and a minority wear full face (more
of those in the winter than the summer).

I haven't been looking for gloves in particular, but I think most wear
them, at least the half-glove kind that cover the palm, but not the fingers
(we're talking warm weather here...in the winter it's heavy gauntlets,
perhaps with electric hookups :-)

When it's hot out, a lot don't wear jackets, though many do wear leather
vests.  Some of those have been riding that way for many years...and don't
have any road rash scars that I've noticed, so they are either lucky,
careful, or both.  Or maybe they just have really great reconstructive
surgeons?

When entering Delaware or Pennsylvania, where helmets are optional, some
take advantage of that fact and remove the helmets.  These seem to be a
minority (out of about 17 bikes on a recent ride to Delaware, about 4 or 5
did that...the rest kept their helmets on...including the three of us
wearing full face helmets).

Dress varies widely, but you are right about a majority of Harley riders
not wearing full race gear all the time on the street.  Not even close to
that in most cases.  On the other hand, they don't ride like some sport
bikers I've seen either.  No wheelies through intersections, knee dragging
around blind curves, or other such things that are likely to result in a
need for really good protective gear.

-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 19 23:43:22 2004
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 23:45:02 -0400
To: "Michael Jordan" <mjordan812@XXXXXX>,
   "'Morrison, Brian'" <BMorrison@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Why gear?

At 07:27 PM 5/19/04 -0400, Michael Jordan wrote:
>> So she challenged me to produce empirical evidence or
>> substantial authority of the value of NON-HELMET gear.  (I
>> understand the full-face v. 3/4 issue, and so does she.
>> We're talking about gloves and jacket).
>
>I don't have the link to the guy's site with the major road rash that was
>floating around here a week or so ago. Can anyone here provide Mr. Morrison
>with that link?
>
>It would seem to meet his requirement, as I recall.

You mean the guy who woke up in the hospital emergency room, with his last
memories consisting of hitting 100 mph on an interstate at 12am?  He's here:

http://www.cmyoung.com/bikewreck.html

The full face helmet pitch, with a comment about full gear included, is at:

http://jeff.dean.home.att.net/swisher.htm

-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 19 23:46:19 2004
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 23:47:57 -0400
To: "Sean Steele" <sean@XXXXXX>, "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: A (im)Modest Proposal

At 08:00 PM 5/19/04 -0400, Sean Steele wrote:
>Permit me to get philosophical for a moment.
>
>Beyond the prosaic financial, spatial, and maintenance considerations of
>buying a second (or newer/better/different) bike, how does one stay
>happy with what they currently ride?  In our collective estimation, is
>there any benefit to doing so (i.e., the arguable moral victory of
>delayed gratification)?

I still like mine.  The only reason I can see for having more than one is
to have more than one type...with different capabilities.  For instance, a
cruiser and a dirt bike, or an enduro and a sport-touring bike, or a track
bike and a tour bike.  Or one of each of those... ;-)

I barely have enough free time to ride the one I have, so I don't need
another at the moment.



-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 19 23:47:18 2004
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 20:47:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Why gear?
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX


--- Michael Jordan <mjordan812@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > So she challenged me to produce empirical evidence or
> > substantial authority of the value of NON-HELMET gear.  (I
> > understand the full-face v. 3/4 issue, and so does she.
> > We're talking about gloves and jacket).
>
> I don't have the link to the guy's site with the major road rash that
> was
> floating around here a week or so ago. Can anyone here provide Mr.
> Morrison
> with that link?
>
> It would seem to meet his requirement, as I recall.

Probably not. The guy was doing something like 100mph with no gear and
doesn't even remember why he went down.

In my opinion:

1. Many people who ride sport bikes are emulating the sportbike racers
they see on TV. Others like the acceleration (like me) or even the
coolness factor. How many cruisers do you see coming down 211 or Deal's
Gap? There is a much higher proportion of sportbikers whizzing down the
road and complaining about gravel in the turns as if they were on the
track. So they're going to ride with full face and "racing gear". They
ride expecting to fall down by pushing the bike too hard through a turn.

I was at a light the other day on my Gixxer when a guy with no helmet
pulled up next to me on a green Kaw. I greeted him and then knocked on my
helmet "where's your helmet?". He wanted to know how much it cost. "Three
hundred on sale but a helmet has saved my head."

I wonder if another reason is that they haven't gone down yet.

They may also be emulating their peers. If three or four friends get
together and none have helmets or gear, what's the likelyhood that another
friend will? With the mailing lists, you have the opportunity to hear from
others who've experienced what happens when you go down and then make a
more informed decision. And that's true whether sportbike or cruiser.

One of the recent superbike magazines had an article (in fact it was
"Cycle's Sportbike 2004" and the article is "From Extreme Street to Main
Street") on the guys who ride with shorts and tennies but do wheelies and
stoppies. One of the points is the number of DVD's on sale at the
sportbike shops that glorify the extreme bikers. And hey, didn't we post
links to the maniac doing 120+MPH through traffic?

2. The folks who ride cruisers are just that. Cruising. They're not
pushing the bike to the limits on turns and don't expect to fall down. The
worst you can expect is some gravel, a bug or other piece of crap thrown
at you on the road. Out here there's lots of sand and dirt being thrown
up. The dump trucks don't have a "cover your load" requirement and some of
the trucks have signs: "Stay back 200 feet. We're not responsible if your
windshield is broken".

I think the feeling is that as long as you're watching your ass, you're
not likely to go down.

I know that when I ride the gixxer, I have gloves, full face and my JR
jacket on but when I'm on the Harley, I have my half helmet, goggles,
leather vest (for the gravel, bugs and goo) and half gloves. But I also
know that I'm more aggressive on the gixxer than on the Harley.

These are my opinions. Generalizations are mine. YMMV.

>
> Thanks
>
> Michael J.
>

Carl

=====
02 Harley FXSTI
95 Suzuki GSXR 750W
76 Honda Chopper (in progress)




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year
http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 19 23:49:54 2004
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 22:49:50 -0500
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Sean Jordan <eternity23@XXXXXX>
Subject: AMA Pro-Racing Honda Superbike Classic at Barber Motorsports

These are my shots from last weekend - let me know what you guys think!

http://michaelj.smugmug.com/gallery/120592/1

- Sean Jordan

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 19 23:59:34 2004
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 20:59:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: A (im)Modest Proposal
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX


--- Sean Steele <sean@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Permit me to get philosophical for a moment.
>
> Beyond the prosaic financial, spatial, and maintenance considerations of
>
> buying a second (or newer/better/different) bike, how does one stay
> happy with what they currently ride?  In our collective estimation, is
> there any benefit to doing so (i.e., the arguable moral victory of
> delayed gratification)?
>

I don't think you can ignore the three items you listed. I'm happier with
my bikes as long as they're still useable. At some point, the maintenance
passes a threashhold and it's time to replace it. There's also technology,
for the sportbikes especially. They get lighter, faster, better. Lighter
bikes can also be structurally weaker in the long run. Something that's
meant to race isn't meant to last 20 years.

I just spent some 750 bucks on the gixxer and I'm starting the process for
upgrading the bike. That consists of dropping hints to the SO and making
sure she sees the bill. I like the gixxer and will likely buy a newer one
(there's a 'busa in Sunday's paper for $6100, needs rubber and a lower
fairing *ponder* *ponder*). The Harley will probably stick around for a
long time.

> Or is it true that he who dies with the most toys... wins?
>
> -Sean "If a tree falls..." Steele
> War-shington, DC
> '92 Seca II <---- having a cartoon roast turkey daydream of a new CBR600
>

Carl

=====
02 Harley FXSTI
95 Suzuki GSXR 750W
76 Honda Chopper (in progress)




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year
http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 03:28:14 2004
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 03:27:47 -0400
From: Brian Roach <roach@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Why gear?

Carl Schelin wrote:

> 2. The folks who ride cruisers are just that. Cruising. They're not
> pushing the bike to the limits on turns and don't expect to fall down. The
> worst you can expect is some gravel, a bug or other piece of crap thrown
> at you on the road.

Except ... you're no less likely to get clipped by a mini-van on a
cruiser. Nor does a deer care what you're riding. I don't think the one
that jumped in front of Chuck a while back did so because he was on a
GSXR :)

I don't wear protective gear (on the street) because I think I'm going
to be pushing any limits ... I wear it because if some nimrod not paying
attention in a cage causes me to part ways with my bike, I'm not going
to need skin grafts.

::knock on wood:: I've never actually needed it on the street. I could
have been blissfully riding in shorts and flip-flops for the last 15
years, and taking my helmet off where allowed.

But I'm happier being safer than sorry. It goes back to that risk/reward
thing. I don't really mind wearing the gear, so there's not much reward
(to me) in risking not wearing it.

- Roach

--
http://www.speedwerks.com
The one-stop shop for all your motorcycling needs!
(302) 672 - 7223

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 04:57:28 2004
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 16:46:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Kozyn <mr_vfr@XXXXXX>
Subject: Spam: FS: 1 tkt 4 Bonnaroo
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

Hey DC Guys 'n Gals,

I have one ticket for Bonnaroo in Manchester, TN (cicada central ;) on
the weekend of June 11-13 available for exactly what I paid for it:
$180.00. E-mail me off list, if interested.

'Roo info made be found here: http://www.bonnaroo.com

JK (D-mode)
1999 900SS
1995 VFR750F





__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year
http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 08:10:30 2004
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 08:10:14 -0400
From: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>
To: Sean Steele <sean@XXXXXX>
CC: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: MetricBikes.com

Sean Steele wrote:

> Any listers have purchase experience or reviews of MetricBikes.com?
> Their prices on apparel seem pretty good.

I just bought a Shoei helmet for the wife from their website.
No complaints.  I had never heard of them before, either.

Horkster

--
Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)

Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX '98 Concours - BugSlayer
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth      '99 Concours - Grape Nehi
CM #001 NRA IBA COG                  '82 GS850G - Neat old bike

The Mason Dixon 20-20 Endurance Rally:  The Games People Play
Come join us in 2004:   http://www.masondixon20-20.org

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 08:21:08 2004
Reply-To: "Jon Strang" <jmstrang@XXXXXX>
From: "Jon Strang" <jmstrang@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Why gear?
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 08:21:35 -0400

You need smarter friends.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Morrison, Brian" <BMorrison@XXXXXX>
>
> So she challenged me to produce empirical evidence or substantial
> authority of the value of NON-HELMET gear.  (I understand the full-face
> v. 3/4 issue, and so does she.  We're talking about gloves and jacket).

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 08:43:13 2004
Reply-To: "Jon Strang" <jmstrang@XXXXXX>
From: "Jon Strang" <jmstrang@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Why gear?
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 08:43:41 -0400

Now for my non-smartass answer:

I fell down going about 25 mph.  In shorts and a T-shirt.  I was 18 or 19 at
the time, and thought I was bullet proof.  I may have been, but I wasn't
asphalt and gravel-proof.  I lost most of the skin on my right side and
back, ground my elbow down to the bone (about a dime-size patch of bone was
visible with the elbow straight, more when bent).   Big chunks were gone
from my palms.

I spent a good 3-4 hours at the hospital getting dirt and gravel
brillo-padded out of my hide.  The pain, even through the industrial-grade
IV administered painkillers, was intense.  Unbelieveably intense.  It took a
few weeks to heal...and even with my happy take-home package of percocets,
it hurt like hell as my back and side dried, cracked, bled, oozed.  Due to
that experience, I don't ride without at least f/f helmet, jeans, m/c gloves
and a m/c jacket.  And I rarely wear just jeans, almost always (99.5% of the
time) wear m/c pants (JR ballistic, Phoenix, or leather).

About a year and a half ago, I fell going a bit faster.  I was in full
leathers (two piece Teknics suit), gloves and full face helmet.  Other than
a sore shoulder (albeit a very, very sore shoulder), I was injury free.  As
I watched the pavement zoom past an inch from my nose, I was amazed that it
wasn't hurting yet.

There.  Empirical data.   Hopefully your friends are smarter than the 18-19
y.o. me.

--jon


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Strang" <jmstrang@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 8:21 AM
Subject: Re: Why gear?


> You need smarter friends.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Morrison, Brian" <BMorrison@XXXXXX>
> >
> > So she challenged me to produce empirical evidence or substantial
> > authority of the value of NON-HELMET gear.  (I understand the full-face
> > v. 3/4 issue, and so does she.  We're talking about gloves and jacket).
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 08:53:29 2004
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 08:52:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: dan <dan@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: Why gear?

> 1. Many people who ride sport bikes are emulating the sportbike racers
> they see on TV. Others like the acceleration (like me) or even the
> coolness factor. How many cruisers do you see coming down 211 or Deal's
> Gap? There is a much higher proportion of sportbikers whizzing down the
> road and complaining about gravel in the turns as if they were on the
> track. So they're going to ride with full face and "racing gear". They
> ride expecting to fall down by pushing the bike too hard through a turn.
>

Actually, most of the crashes posted on the local boards involve target
fixation rather than hitting things and going too fast for the bike.  So
its usually pushing themselves too hard through the turn.  Been there done
that, and gear saved my ass.

Dan

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 08:55:57 2004
From: Stephen Miller <freecat@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Why gear?
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 08:56:10 -0400
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>


On May 19, 2004, at 11:40 PM, Mike Bartman wrote:
>
> I've not seen a Harley rider (or any other rider) in a helmet-requiring
> state (like VA or MD) with a non-DOT helmet...and I've ridden with
> dozens
> of them in the last few months.  Many do wear half-helmets, but all are
> DOT-approved.  Some wear 3/4 helmets, and a minority wear full face
> (more
> of those in the winter than the summer).


I see them frequently in MD and VA, non-DOT helmets with DOT stickers.
But the majority have DOT half-helmets or better.  Actually, when I
lived in VA, there was a guy who frequently rode around on his 'Busa in
my neighborhood with shorts, a tank top, and a non-DOT beanie.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 09:39:38 2004
From: bernescut@XXXXXX
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Cc: BMorrison@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: Why gear?
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 09:38:56 -0400

I have to agree from personal experience that even a simple misstep like
putting your foot down in a puddle of oil and falling over can result in bad
brusises and skin lacerations if you aren't properly dressed (not to mention
peels of laughter from your suppossed friends).  One thing to also consider
is that even a simple laceration can lead to staph infection (even in the
hospital) and right now there are fewer and fewer antibiotics that can stop
it.  It'd be a shame to survive the accident on account of your helmet only
to die anyway because of infection from the lacerations.
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/eid/press_r/rotun.htm
I'm still trying to find that post from the HD rider whose SO was wearing a
halter top and had her nipples sanded off by the asphalt when she landed;
maybe someone else can repost it.
Cedric Bernescut
2000 CBR600F4
Annandale, VA



Anyone have authority or evidence?

Thanks.

Brian

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 09:45:21 2004
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 09:45:17 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
From: cvkgpena@XXXXXX
Reply-To: cvkgpena@XXXXXX
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Why gear?

To add to Jon's empirical data point, please invite your friend to read about my encounter with a deer:

http://www.geocities.com/the_penas/chux_gsxr.htm and scroll down to my "Deerhunter" story.  My pal Gary Jaehne (racer and track instructor) out in CA has survived 3 such hits!

Here's what I would tell your friend: The proper gear does not guarantee that injuries or worse will be prevented, but it exponentially increases the likelihood that you will walk away relatively unscathed.

Jon Strang <jmstrang@XXXXXX> wrote:

There.  Empirical data.   Hopefully your friends are smarter than the 18-19
y.o. me.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 09:50:12 2004
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 09:50:05 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
From: cvkgpena@XXXXXX
Reply-To: cvkgpena@XXXXXX
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Why gear?

Maybe it was the new Ferrari yellow paint and fancy graphics that attracted the deer. %^)

And here's another good reason to wear proper protective gear while street riding: hard, immovable objects.  Many more of these in the street environment than on a track.  Even at low speeds, banging into one (oh, like the curb) is gonna hurt and having the right gear could make the difference between minor and major injuries.

<roach@XXXXXX> wrote:

Nor does a deer care what you're riding. I don't think the one
that jumped in front of Chuck a while back did so because he was on a
GSXR :)

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 09:57:18 2004
From: bernescut@XXXXXX
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: Why gear?
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 09:56:52 -0400

Anyone catch the 2 page ad for Icon gear just inside the cover of Cycle
World this month?  It showed a rider sitting on the curb after a crash with
scratched up gear and helmet, but pretty much OK.  It looked so real I got
the impression they were shooting a different ad but the stunt rider bit it
and the photographer took advantage of the moment.  I'm not sure Suzuki
appreciated the sight of a wrecked GSXR on the ground, but it sure as heck
got the point across to wear your gear.
Cedric Bernescut
2000 CBR600F4
Annandale, VA

 Even at low speeds, banging into one (oh, like the curb) is gonna hurt and
having the right gear could make the difference between minor and major
injuries.

<roach@XXXXXX> wrote:

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 09:59:00 2004
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 09:58:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: dan <dan@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: celebs that ride

For anyone that cares, a nice list of famous people who ride, its rather
surprising.

http://www.motorbiker.org/Motorbiker.nsf/Celebs_Name?OpenView

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 10:17:50 2004
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:16:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: dan <dan@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Six Quarts of Valvoline Synthetic for Free

http://www.valvoline.com/pages/rebates/rebate_details.asp?rebateid=18

Should make for a nice free oil change!  I got six quarts of their maxlife
free a few months ago, so they do actually pay out.

Dan

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 10:23:41 2004
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:23:34 -0400
To: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Subject: Report the idiot cage driver

https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/ps/police/traf_sfty_report.htm

If the violation occurs in Fairfax County, use the form to anonymously
report their behavior to the police.  They'll get a letter in the mail and
a note in their file.  Maybe next time they get pulled over, they get a
real ticket.

I just used it on this woman that blew a 4 way stop this morning causing a
near miss.


___________________________________________
     Mike Troutman
         http://www.troutman.org/vfr
         1997 Honda VFR 750
            AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/
            NMA http://www.motorists.org

One who knows the enemy and knows himself
will not be in danger in a hundred battles.
One who does not know the enemy but knows himself
will sometimes win, sometimes lose.
One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself
will be in danger in every battle.
  - Sun Tzu

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 10:50:16 2004
From: "Rob Keiser" <robkeiser@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: Why gear?
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:38:23 -0400

Because sweating is better than bleeding.


Rob
'98 VFR800 (once again, ready for the road)


From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 10:53:19 2004
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 09:53:16 -0500
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Sean Jordan <eternity23@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Spam: FS: 1 tkt 4 Bonnaroo

John K. posted:
>Hey DC Guys 'n Gals,
>
>I have one ticket for Bonnaroo in Manchester, TN ...


This is about a half-hour south of where I'm going to school here in TN.
(And we don't have any cicadas yet!) If anyone is riding out here for the
festival, drop me a line.

- Sean Jordan


From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 10:56:25 2004
Subject: Re:MetricBikes.com
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:56:10 -0400
From: "Maurer, Aaron" <AMaurer@XXXXXX>
To: sean@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
X-WSS-ID: 6CB218802686778-01-01

Stay away from them.


See
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40032&highlight=metric
for more info.

Aaron P. Maurer
Williams & Connolly, LLP
202-434-5282
202-434-5029 (fax)


------------------------------------------------------------


NOTICE:

This message is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by reply or by telephone (call us collect at (202) 434-5000) and immediately delete this message and all its attachments.

============================================================

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 10:56:52 2004
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:56:50 -0400
From: "Chris Norloff" <cnorloff@XXXXXX>
Reply-To: <cnorloff@XXXXXX>
To: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Report the idiot cage driver

Excellent idea. I think some folks would be surprised to hear their actions reported by others as aggressive.

Unfortunately, I think there are some drivers who would regard this as a badge of honor.

Chris Norloff

---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Date:  Thu, 20 May 2004 10:23:34 -0400

>https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/ps/police/traf_sfty_report.htm
>
>If the violation occurs in Fairfax County, use the form to anonymously
>report their behavior to the police.  They'll get a letter in the mail and
>a note in their file.  Maybe next time they get pulled over, they get a
>real ticket.
>
>I just used it on this woman that blew a 4 way stop this morning causing a
>near miss.
>
>
>___________________________________________
>     Mike Troutman
>         http://www.troutman.org/vfr
>         1997 Honda VFR 750
>            AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/
>            NMA http://www.motorists.org
>
>One who knows the enemy and knows himself
>will not be in danger in a hundred battles.
>One who does not know the enemy but knows himself
>will sometimes win, sometimes lose.
>One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself
>will be in danger in every battle.
>  - Sun Tzu
>
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 10:57:37 2004
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:53:47 -0400
From: Skip <skip@XXXXXX>
To: Brian Roach <roach@XXXXXX>
CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Why gear?



Brian Roach wrote:

>
> But I'm happier being safer than sorry. It goes back to that risk/reward
> thing. I don't really mind wearing the gear, so there's not much reward
> (to me) in risking not wearing it.

I feel naked and uncomfortable without gear on.

Years ago  maryland had no helmet law, and two times I rode sans helmet.  I was
too uncomfortable without my lid and stopped both times after about 10 minutes
to put it back on.

--skip

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 11:09:50 2004
From: "Wesleyan Hsu" <wes@XXXXXX>
To: "'DC Cycles'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Report the idiot cage driver
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 11:09:41 -0400

And, I'm sure there will be people who will report just anybody, including
"good" drivers or maybe their friends, just to send out a scare.

Wes Hsu

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Norloff [mailto:cnorloff@XXXXXX]
> Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 10:57 AM
> To: DC Cycles
> Subject: RE: Report the idiot cage driver
>
> Excellent idea. I think some folks would be surprised to hear
> their actions reported by others as aggressive.
>
> Unfortunately, I think there are some drivers who would
> regard this as a badge of honor.
>
> Chris Norloff
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
> From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
> Date:  Thu, 20 May 2004 10:23:34 -0400
>
> >https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/ps/police/traf_sfty_report.htm
> >
> >If the violation occurs in Fairfax County, use the form to
> anonymously
> >report their behavior to the police.  They'll get a letter
> in the mail
> >and a note in their file.  Maybe next time they get pulled
> over, they
> >get a real ticket.
> >
> >I just used it on this woman that blew a 4 way stop this morning
> >causing a near miss.
> >
> >
> >___________________________________________
> >     Mike Troutman
> >         http://www.troutman.org/vfr
> >         1997 Honda VFR 750
> >            AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/
> >            NMA http://www.motorists.org
> >
> >One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a
> >hundred battles.
> >One who does not know the enemy but knows himself will
> sometimes win,
> >sometimes lose.
> >One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself will be in
> >danger in every battle.
> >  - Sun Tzu
> >
> >
>
>


From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 11:57:47 2004
From: "marc shaller" <marc_shaller@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: New Biker in Need of Advice
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 11:46:23 -0400

I am a new biker looking for a good place in and around the District to
purchase motorcycle gear.  I don't have a car so it would have to be metro
accessible.

I'd also like to get the names of honest brokers who sell motorcycle
insurance at reasonable price.

Any help is be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,
Marc

_________________________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 12:09:43 2004
Subject: RE: Report the idiot cage driver
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 12:13:45 -0400
From: "Julian Halton" <julian@XXXXXX>
To: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Welcome to 1984.  Nameless individuals reporting to the authorities with
no fear of recrimination so data ends up in a file....fairly soon
insurance companies get access to this file to determine coverage.  Any
tom, dick, jane or harry can influence your life.
When will the madness stop? when will we as a society stop catering to
the lowest common denominator?
what happened to personal responsibility?

If everyone drove properly....and did not:
- slam on the brakes for any reason at all
- lollygag in the left lane
- left space cushions around them so that rush hour traffic could flow
instead of accordion
Imagine the possbilities!

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 12:10:53 2004
Reply-To: "Jon Strang" <jmstrang@XXXXXX>
From: "Jon Strang" <jmstrang@XXXXXX>
To: "marc shaller" <marc_shaller@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: New Biker in Need of Advice
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 12:11:17 -0400

http://www.motorcycleleatherexchange.com/ -- nice folks, local, dc-cycles
posters.  Me and everyone else on the list will sing our praises of their
good prices and customer service.

www.newenough.com -- nice folks, I've had nothing but great experiences with
them.  Not local, not dc-cycles.

----- Original Message -----
From: "marc shaller" <marc_shaller@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 11:46 AM
Subject: New Biker in Need of Advice


> I am a new biker looking for a good place in and around the District to
> purchase motorcycle gear.  I don't have a car so it would have to be metro
> accessible.
>
> I'd also like to get the names of honest brokers who sell motorcycle
> insurance at reasonable price.
>
> Any help is be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thank you,
> Marc
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar - get it now!
> http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 12:25:51 2004
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 09:25:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: New Biker in Need of Advice
To: marc shaller <marc_shaller@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX

You will have trouble finding a company to insure your
bike inside DC (if thats where you live).  Since you
don't have a car it will be more difficult.

Markel insures my bike in DC, give them a try.

As for gear, its much cheaper to buy gear online.  One
of the closest retail shops is Coleman Powersports in
Falls Chuch and they are legendary for their high
prices and horrible service.


--- Jon Strang <jmstrang@XXXXXX> wrote:
> http://www.motorcycleleatherexchange.com/ -- nice
> folks, local, dc-cycles
> posters.  Me and everyone else on the list will sing
> our praises of their
> good prices and customer service.
>
> www.newenough.com -- nice folks, I've had nothing
> but great experiences with
> them.  Not local, not dc-cycles.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "marc shaller" <marc_shaller@XXXXXX>
> To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
> Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 11:46 AM
> Subject: New Biker in Need of Advice
>
>
> > I am a new biker looking for a good place in and
> around the District to
> > purchase motorcycle gear.  I don't have a car so
> it would have to be metro
> > accessible.
> >
> > I'd also like to get the names of honest brokers
> who sell motorcycle
> > insurance at reasonable price.
> >
> > Any help is be greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Thank you,
> > Marc
> >
> >
>
_________________________________________________________________
> > FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar -
> get it now!
> >
>
http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/
> >
>





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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 12:26:47 2004
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 09:26:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: Bike Night is this SUNDAY
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

I hope to see a bunch of you.  Lets start the season
out right (Bike Night season not riding season)!



http://www.geocities.com/bikenight/

We are pleased to announce the return of Bike Nights
to the DC area. These events have been going on since
2000 and bring the DC-area riding community together.

MC Productions presents...

BIKE NIGHT
CarPool Restaurant and Bar
4000 Fairfax Drive
Arlington, VA
Sunday, May 23rd, 2004
4pm to 8pm

Join DC area motorcyclists at CarPool
(http://www.gocarpool.com) in Arlington, Virginia for
the first BIKE NIGHT of the summer. ALL motorcyclists
(cruisers, sportbikes, touring bikes, dirt bikes, Brit
bikes, classic bikes, etc.) are welcome to join in the
fun and camaraderie.

Reserved motorcycle-only parking out front and BBQ by
Rocklands.







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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 12:29:15 2004
From: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" <Silvera@XXXXXX>
To: "'Troutman'" <mike@XXXXXX>, DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Report the idiot cage driver
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 12:29:00 -0400

Sweet I wonder if Montgomery county or Prince Georges has such a thing?

-----Original Message-----
From: Troutman [mailto:mike@XXXXXX]
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 10:24 AM
To: DC Cycles
Subject: Report the idiot cage driver

https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/ps/police/traf_sfty_report.htm

If the violation occurs in Fairfax County, use the form to anonymously
report their behavior to the police.  They'll get a letter in the mail and
a note in their file.  Maybe next time they get pulled over, they get a
real ticket.

I just used it on this woman that blew a 4 way stop this morning causing a
near miss.


___________________________________________
     Mike Troutman
         http://www.troutman.org/vfr
         1997 Honda VFR 750
            AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/
            NMA http://www.motorists.org

One who knows the enemy and knows himself
will not be in danger in a hundred battles.
One who does not know the enemy but knows himself
will sometimes win, sometimes lose.
One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself
will be in danger in every battle.
  - Sun Tzu

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 12:37:31 2004
Subject: Greetlets
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 12:37:21 -0400
From: "Smith, Andrew" <asmith@XXXXXX>
To: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Hello everyone,

My name's Andy and I've been lurking on this group for a couple of days
so thought it was about time I introduced myself. Seems like a great
group you've got going here, very informative, little BS. I'm 28 and I
hail from Manchester, England, though I've been living in the DC area
for 7 years now and Sean recently invited me over to this list.

I'll be going to Bike Night so am looking forward to meeting a bunch of
new riders. Look for the bald guy on the Black CBR drooling over
anything chrome. Maybe that should narrow it down to about 50 people?

Cheers,
/Andy

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 12:40:47 2004
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 09:40:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Greetlets
To: "Smith, Andrew" <asmith@XXXXXX>,
   DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Welcome aboard Andy!


--- "Smith, Andrew" <asmith@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> My name's Andy and I've been lurking on this group
> for a couple of days
> so thought it was about time I introduced myself.
> Seems like a great
> group you've got going here, very informative,
> little BS. I'm 28 and I
> hail from Manchester, England, though I've been
> living in the DC area
> for 7 years now and Sean recently invited me over to
> this list.
>
> I'll be going to Bike Night so am looking forward to
> meeting a bunch of
> new riders. Look for the bald guy on the Black CBR
> drooling over
> anything chrome. Maybe that should narrow it down to
> about 50 people?
>
> Cheers,
> /Andy
>





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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 13:01:49 2004
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:01:39 -0400
From: Dave Yates <Dave@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Report the idiot cage driver
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

>Sweet I wonder if Montgomery county or Prince Georges has
>such a thing?

[Dave]  So far as I know, UnFairTax is the only local
jurisdiction that has such a program.  I remember being
severely incensed once last year, calling to ask about it,
and the dispatcher had no idea what I was talking about.


>https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/ps/police/traf_sfty_report.htm

I have mixed feelings about this program.  On one hand, I am
a bit suspicious of the idea - who's to say a neighbor
dispute or parking lot argument won't result in a complaint.
I think that a safe measure to prevent this is to initiate an
online complaint form for actual criminal investigation,
meaning that there would be a penalty involved for making a
false statement.  OTOH, I can understand the need for this
because, in Virginia, if you encounter a law officer chances
are 95% that you will hear one of 3 canned opening lines.
1:  Do you know how fast you were going?
2:  That's a civil matter.
3:  We can't write tickets for things we don't witness.

That is not to say that all of them are lazy donut scoffers.
I had to deal with Fairfax PD a couple weeks ago.
<zero moto content warning>
I draw your attention to :

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-200.1
)B§ 18.2-200.1. Failure to perform promise for construction,
etc., in return for advances.

This handy dandy section of code was put in place to curb
fraud and abusive contractors.  over a year ago, I contracted
to have an addition put on my house.  Long story short, it's
still outstanding.  Per the statute, I sent off the certified
notice of intent to invoke the statute, with proof of
advanced payment, waited approximately 20 days.  USPS is also
pretty handy nowadays too, because they showed that the
correspondence was forwarded to his new address, but never
picked up (not required).  I alleged, and could substantiate
2 counts of felony larceny under this statute.  Sure enough,
when I called the FPD, at 1st, the officer was 100%
skeptical.  Remaining calm, I drew his attention to the
printed copy of the law at hand, and my written evidence.
This gave him reason to pause.  His pronouncement - go to
civil court, you can try this in front of a Magistrate and
maybe they go for it.  He agreed to give the contractor a
call, and offer some free advice...  I made a point to show
the nice officer around, let him hear the whole story -
mother in law suite, her life savings, etc...
  About 2 hours later, FPD calls back and says - 'mind if I
stop by?'  Seems he's talked to his partner, and a
magistrate, and they both concur, this is felony theft.  FPD
officer brings a form letter that the magistrate has handy
for just this type of issue, we compare notes, and agree I've
got dotted "i"'s and crossed "t"'s.  End result:
  outstanding money returned, contractor dismissed...
Subsequent discussion with FPD leads me to believe I could
only sustain 1 count of theft under the statute, but, it does
appear to hold water...

The object lesson here - it's impossible for anyone to know
every section of law (FPD admitted as much and apologized,
which I felt was not necessary given his efforts to right the
situation).

Dave Yates

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 13:04:52 2004
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:06:35 -0400
To: Stephen Miller <freecat@XXXXXX>, DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Why gear?

At 08:56 AM 5/20/04 -0400, Stephen Miller wrote:

>I see them frequently in MD and VA, non-DOT helmets with DOT stickers.

If it has a DOT sticker, how do you know it isn't a DOT-approved helmet?

-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 13:10:03 2004
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:09:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Why gear?
To: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>, Stephen Miller <freecat@XXXXXX>,
   DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Because DOT rarely approves German-Army style helmets
with faux-crome exteriors.


--- Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX> wrote:
> At 08:56 AM 5/20/04 -0400, Stephen Miller wrote:
>
> >I see them frequently in MD and VA, non-DOT helmets
> with DOT stickers.
>
> If it has a DOT sticker, how do you know it isn't a
> DOT-approved helmet?
>
> -- Mike B.
>
> '04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI
> for the non-Harley folks)
>
> Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from
> someone else's mistakes
> is better.
>





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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 13:18:42 2004
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:20:25 -0400
To: cvkgpena@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Why gear?

At 09:50 AM 5/20/04 -0400, cvkgpena@XXXXXX wrote:
>Even at low speeds, banging into one (oh, like the curb) is gonna hurt and
>having the right gear could make the difference between minor and major
>injuries.

Or make no difference at all...like the guy I read about once down in Va.
Beach.  Someone ran a red light (don't recall if it was the bike or the
car) and a bike T-boned a car at almost 40 mph, launching the rider over
the car.  He flew until he hit the pavement, and slid head first into the
curb.  The impact killed him instantly.  Ban curbs?

Oh, he was wearing a full face helmet at the time.  Made no difference in
that case at all.

If you want to be really safe, drive an M-1.  Anything less and something
will always be bigger, heavier and more durable.


-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 13:24:27 2004
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:24:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Why gear?
To: cvkgpena@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX

MIKE: 40MPH IS NOT LOW SPEED


--- Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX> wrote:
> At 09:50 AM 5/20/04 -0400, cvkgpena@XXXXXX
> wrote:
> >Even at low speeds, banging into one (oh, like the
> curb) is gonna hurt and
> >having the right gear could make the difference
> between minor and major
> >injuries.
>
> Or make no difference at all...like the guy I read
> about once down in Va.
> Beach.  Someone ran a red light (don't recall if it
> was the bike or the
> car) and a bike T-boned a car at almost 40 mph,
> launching the rider over
> the car.  He flew until he hit the pavement, and
> slid head first into the
> curb.  The impact killed him instantly.  Ban curbs?
>
> Oh, he was wearing a full face helmet at the time.
> Made no difference in
> that case at all.
>
> If you want to be really safe, drive an M-1.
> Anything less and something
> will always be bigger, heavier and more durable.
>
>
> -- Mike B.
>
> '04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI
> for the non-Harley folks)
>
> Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from
> someone else's mistakes
> is better.
>





__________________________________
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Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year
http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 13:33:30 2004
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:33:13 -0400
From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: New Biker in Need of Advice
X-AOL-IP: 65.86.98.162

You can also metro and then taxi out to Cycle Sport in Alexandria.  Take Yellow Line all the way to Huntington Station and then a short (2-3 miles maybe) cab ride to 7800 Richmond Highway.  Nice folks and decent prices.

Scooter

In a message dated 5/20/2004 12:25:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, markkitchell@XXXXXX writes:

>
>
> You will have trouble finding a company to insure your
> bike inside DC (if thats where you live).  Since you
> don't have a car it will be more difficult.
>
> Markel insures my bike in DC, give them a try.
>
> As for gear, its much cheaper to buy gear online.  One
> of the closest retail shops is Coleman Powersports in
> Falls Chuch and they are legendary for their high
> prices and horrible service.
>
>
> --- Jon Strang <jmstrang@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > http://www.motorcycleleatherexchange.com/ -- nice
> > folks, local, dc-cycles
> > posters.  Me and everyone else on the list will sing
> > our praises of their
> > good prices and customer service.
> >
> > www.newenough.com -- nice folks, I've had nothing
> > but great experiences with
> > them.  Not local, not dc-cycles.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "marc shaller" <marc_shaller@XXXXXX>
> > To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
> > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 11:46 AM
> > Subject: New Biker in Need of Advice
> >
> >
> > > I am a new biker looking for a good place in and
> > around the District to
> > > purchase motorcycle gear.  I don't have a car so
> > it would have to be metro
> > > accessible.
> > >
> > > I'd also like to get the names of honest brokers
> > who sell motorcycle
> > > insurance at reasonable price.
> > >
> > > Any help is be greatly appreciated.
> > >
> > > Thank you,
> > > Marc

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 13:35:15 2004
Subject: RE: Helmets (Was: Why gear?)
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:35:05 -0400
From: "Verde, Robert" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>
To: "Mark Kitchell" <markkitchell@XXXXXX>,
   "Mike Bartman" <omni@XXXXXX>, "Stephen Miller" <freecat@XXXXXX>,
   "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

I remember riding through Nevada back in the late 80's, and spotting a rider approaching me wearing a rather striking helmet.  It looked like a Roman centurion helmet, complete with nose-piece and cheek plates, and a crest that looked like it was made of horse-hair.

As he got closer and we passed each other, I could see that the "open spaces" in the face area of the helmet were actually tinted plastic of some sort, and that he also had a scabbard (complete with handle, I admit that I did not actually see a sword blade) strapped across his back.  It was a full-face helmet, albeit a pretty startling design...

The German helmet design is a Stahlhelm, BTW.  http://www.inventionandtechnology.com/2003/01/feature.shtml

And, in the interest of fairness, there is a DOT version; http://www.helmetsgonewild.com/?engine=adwords!1049&keyword=%28motorcycle+helmet%29

Robert



-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Kitchell [mailto:markkitchell@XXXXXX]
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 1:10 PM
To: Mike Bartman; Stephen Miller; DC Cycles
Subject: Re: Why gear?


Because DOT rarely approves German-Army style helmets
with faux-crome exteriors.


From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 13:36:33 2004
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:38:23 -0400
To: dan <dan@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: celebs that ride

At 09:58 AM 5/20/04 -0400, dan wrote:
>For anyone that cares, a nice list of famous people who ride, its rather
>surprising.
>
>http://www.motorbiker.org/Motorbiker.nsf/Celebs_Name?OpenView

They ran out of room for Leno...I know he's got more brands than are listed!

The women who ride H-D all seem to be pretty attractive...or were at one
time in a few cases.  Vespa seems to be in second place there... ;-)

Is there a dealer for that "unknown" bike around here?  Don't think I've
ever seen one on the road.


-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 13:44:39 2004
From: "Rob Sharp" <rob@XXXXXX>
To: "Julian Halton" <julian@XXXXXX>,
   "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Report the idiot cage driver
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:46:23 -0400

Julian take your "SOMA" or else I will report you to the authorities.  And btw
no unauthorized procreation!

Rob

On Thu, 20 May 2004 12:13:45 -0400, Julian Halton wrote
> Welcome to 1984.  Nameless individuals reporting to the authorities with
> no fear of recrimination so data ends up in a file....fairly soon
> insurance companies get access to this file to determine coverage.  Any
> tom, dick, jane or harry can influence your life.
> When will the madness stop? when will we as a society stop catering
> to the lowest common denominator? what happened to personal responsibility?
>
> If everyone drove properly....and did not:
> - slam on the brakes for any reason at all
> - lollygag in the left lane
> - left space cushions around them so that rush hour traffic could
> flow instead of accordion Imagine the possbilities!


--
Rob Sharp
1996 Honda VFR 750
2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme
SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA
Network Security Engineer

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 13:47:15 2004
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:47:03 -0400
From: Dave Yates <Dave@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Why gear?
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

Chucky P pointed out:
>>Even at low speeds, banging into one (oh, like the curb) is
>>gonna hurt and having the right gear could make the
>>difference between minor and major injuries.
>
>Or make no difference at all...like the guy I read about
>once down in Va. Beach.  Someone ran a red light (don't
>recall if it was the bike or the car) and a bike T-boned a
>car at almost 40 mph, ... The impact killed him instantly.
>Ban curbs?
>
>Oh, he was wearing a full face helmet at the time.  Made no
>difference in that case at all.

[Dave]  Not that street riders should apply this 100%, but,
if gear made no difference, racers would be riding in tee
shirts, shorts and shower shoes.  Any NASCAR or NHRA drivers
who DON'T wear full harnesses?   Sure, having all the gear in
the world could make zero difference, but statistically
speaking helmets and other appropriate riding apparel help to
prevent / minimize injury.  If my opinion is not good enough,
try this simple experiment.

Put on full face helmet, full leather suit.  Walk outside to
the pavement.  Stand straight up and let yourself fall over
backwards.  Have a witness in case you lose conciousness; log
your injuries and rate the amount of pain on a scale of 1 -10.

Now, remove all protective gear, and repeat the above
experiment with jeans, a tee shirt and tennis shoes on.

Report back with results.

I'm just a country boy from Accokeek, but I'll bet your pain
index will be higher without the gear...


Dave Yates

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 13:49:09 2004
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:49:05 -0400
From: Dave Yates <Dave@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Why gear?
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

Just to clarify this, I was commenting on Mike's response to
Chuck's gear advocacy...
>>Or make no difference at all...
Dave Yates

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 14:03:35 2004
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 14:00:59 -0400
To: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>, Stephen Miller <freecat@XXXXXX>,
   DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Why gear?

But they do approve half-helmets with chrome exteriors, that might look a
lot like a German-Army WWII era helmet under the right circumstances...I've
seen them at Battley's, and they are DOT approved.

On the other hand, there are idiots in the world, so maybe some dink is
running around without an approved helmet and counting on the police not
knowing the difference.

-- Mike B.

At 10:09 AM 5/20/04 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote:
>Because DOT rarely approves German-Army style helmets
>with faux-crome exteriors.
>
>
>--- Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX> wrote:
>> At 08:56 AM 5/20/04 -0400, Stephen Miller wrote:
>>
>> >I see them frequently in MD and VA, non-DOT helmets
>> with DOT stickers.
>>
>> If it has a DOT sticker, how do you know it isn't a
>> DOT-approved helmet?
>>
>> -- Mike B.
>>
>> '04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI
>> for the non-Harley folks)
>>
>> Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from
>> someone else's mistakes
>> is better.
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>__________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year
>http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 14:03:49 2004
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 14:05:18 -0400
To: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>, cvkgpena@XXXXXX,
   dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Why gear?

No, but it also isn't the speed he hit the curb at either.  There was
probably a little deceleration at the car, and certainly a little more as
he slid on the pavement before reaching the curb.  Final speed is unknown.
Could be far less than 40 and still give the same results though...the neck
just isn't all that strong, and multiple compression fractures in that area
are likely to be rapidly fatal (not that you'll be awake to notice at the
time).

-- Mike B.

At 10:24 AM 5/20/04 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote:
>MIKE: 40MPH IS NOT LOW SPEED
>
>
>--- Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX> wrote:
>> At 09:50 AM 5/20/04 -0400, cvkgpena@XXXXXX
>> wrote:
>> >Even at low speeds, banging into one (oh, like the
>> curb) is gonna hurt and
>> >having the right gear could make the difference
>> between minor and major
>> >injuries.
>>
>> Or make no difference at all...like the guy I read
>> about once down in Va.
>> Beach.  Someone ran a red light (don't recall if it
>> was the bike or the
>> car) and a bike T-boned a car at almost 40 mph,
>> launching the rider over
>> the car.  He flew until he hit the pavement, and
>> slid head first into the
>> curb.  The impact killed him instantly.  Ban curbs?

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 14:05:32 2004
From: "Rob Sharp" <rob@XXXXXX>
To: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>, Stephen Miller <freecat@XXXXXX>,
   DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Why gear?
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 14:07:17 -0400

Cause it's glued to their skull and their is no possible room for the padding
and such required for DOT.  If it doesn't have like 1 inch of padding or so
then my guess is it's not DOT.

Hell at my MSF class some lady showed up and tried to pass his "Novelty"
hemlet off as DOT.   Instructor didn't buy it and made her where a full face
helmet MSF provided.  She could stop complaining about how she couldn't breath
or see as well as a half helmet.

Good thing she had it on cause she crashed like 3 times that weekend.   Some
people don't think they will ever crash, till they do :-)


Rob

On Thu, 20 May 2004 13:06:35 -0400, Mike Bartman wrote
> At 08:56 AM 5/20/04 -0400, Stephen Miller wrote:
>
> >I see them frequently in MD and VA, non-DOT helmets with DOT stickers.
>
> If it has a DOT sticker, how do you know it isn't a DOT-approved helmet?
>
> -- Mike B.
>
> '04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-
> Harley folks)
>
> Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
> is better.


--
Rob Sharp
1996 Honda VFR 750
2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme
SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA
Network Security Engineer

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 14:07:49 2004
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 11:07:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Why gear?
To: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>, cvkgpena@XXXXXX,
   dc-cycles@XXXXXX

So lets say there was no curb and he lived.  Can you
imagine the road rash and potential broken bones if h
had been wearing a 'leather vest' and Billy Idol
gloves?



--- Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX> wrote:
> No, but it also isn't the speed he hit the curb at
> either.  There was
> probably a little deceleration at the car, and
> certainly a little more as
> he slid on the pavement before reaching the curb.
> Final speed is unknown.
> Could be far less than 40 and still give the same
> results though...the neck
> just isn't all that strong, and multiple compression
> fractures in that area
> are likely to be rapidly fatal (not that you'll be
> awake to notice at the
> time).
>
> -- Mike B.
>
> At 10:24 AM 5/20/04 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote:
> >MIKE: 40MPH IS NOT LOW SPEED
> >
> >
> >--- Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX> wrote:
> >> At 09:50 AM 5/20/04 -0400, cvkgpena@XXXXXX
> >> wrote:
> >> >Even at low speeds, banging into one (oh, like
> the
> >> curb) is gonna hurt and
> >> >having the right gear could make the difference
> >> between minor and major
> >> >injuries.
> >>
> >> Or make no difference at all...like the guy I
> read
> >> about once down in Va.
> >> Beach.  Someone ran a red light (don't recall if
> it
> >> was the bike or the
> >> car) and a bike T-boned a car at almost 40 mph,
> >> launching the rider over
> >> the car.  He flew until he hit the pavement, and
> >> slid head first into the
> >> curb.  The impact killed him instantly.  Ban
> curbs?
>





__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year
http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 14:17:10 2004
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 14:18:52 -0400
To: "Verde, Robert" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>,
   "Mark Kitchell" <markkitchell@XXXXXX>,
   "Stephen Miller" <freecat@XXXXXX>, "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Helmets (Was: Why gear?)

At 01:35 PM 5/20/04 -0400, Verde, Robert wrote:
> that he also had a scabbard (complete with handle, I admit that I did not
>actually see a sword blade) strapped across his back.  It was a full-face
>helmet,

I believe the "handle" of a sword is more commonly referred to as a "hilt".
 The part you hold onto is the "grip".  The knobby part on the end away
from the blade is the pommel", and holds the grip onto the "tang", which is
the blade extension that the grip wraps around.  Depending on the type of
sword, there may also have been one or more quillions (cross guard), or
some other kind of hand protection.  A "basket hilt" would be the sword
equivalent of a full face helmet, wrapping around the hand as much as
possible to limit injury.  A knuckle bow would be more like a 3/4 helmet.

I wonder what sort of drag he got from the horsehair plume on his helmet?
Sounds wild anyway.

>The German helmet design is a Stahlhelm, BTW.
>http://www.inventionandtechnology.com/2003/01/feature.shtml

>And, in the interest of fairness, there is a DOT version;
>http://www.helmetsgonewild.com/?engine=adwords!1049&keyword=%28motorcycle+h
elmet%29

Don't think I'd want to wear that downtown this Memorial Day...some of the
old guys coming in for the WWII Memorial dedication might not have lost
their reflexes yet...
-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 14:32:07 2004
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 14:33:35 -0400
To: Dave Yates <Dave@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Why gear?

At 01:47 PM 5/20/04 -0400, Dave Yates wrote:

>Put on full face helmet, full leather suit.  Walk outside to
>the pavement.  Stand straight up and let yourself fall over
>backwards.  Have a witness in case you lose conciousness; log
>your injuries and rate the amount of pain on a scale of 1 -10.
>
>Now, remove all protective gear, and repeat the above
>experiment with jeans, a tee shirt and tennis shoes on.
>
>Report back with results.

Did that inadvertently a few years ago.  Slipped on the ice in the
driveway, with feet going completely out from under me, followed by a drop
to the concrete.  I was wearing jeans and a T-shirt and sneakers.  Landed
on my back, slightly turned to one side, so the left side got a bit more
impact than the right.

Result?  No injuries at all...not even a scratch.  Impact stung for a few
seconds, particularly on my hand where I'd slapped a bit to help break the
fall, but no other pain was involved.

Had even less result going backwards down the stairs into the den from the
foyer (4 steps, onto carpeted concrete...slipped on the marble tile in the
foyer in my sock feet, got pulled off balance by a swinging Sunday Post
while distracted by a friend, and down I went)).  No bruises, cuts,
abrasions, or pain of any sort.  I did manage to knock an 8" hole in the
wall halfway down though, where my hip hit right between two studs.

Aikido class has come in very handy, even though I haven't been physically
attacked by another person since I was in my teens.  I recommend that
everyone go learn to fall at the very least.  There are Aikido dojos all
around the area.

Will that sort of training help with moto accidents?  Maybe.  It has with
several folks I've talked to on pedal bikes who T-boned cars or otherwise
ended up airborne at much greater than walking speeds.  One rolled over the
hood of the car that pulled out of an alley, and landed on his feet.
Another ended up in a roll on the side of the road, and got nothing more
than a few minor scratches (while wearing typical biking gear, not
leathers).  Nothing will always help (not even full face and full
leathers), and lots of things can help under the right circumstances.
Aikido training might very well be of some use...besides, it's fun!

-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 14:34:38 2004
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 14:36:27 -0400
To: Dave Yates <Dave@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Why gear?

At 01:49 PM 5/20/04 -0400, Dave Yates wrote:
>Just to clarify this, I was commenting on Mike's response to
>Chuck's gear advocacy...
>>>Or make no difference at all...
>Dave Yates

I figured.  My comment was aimed at the fatality end of the scale, BTW.
Dead is dead.  How far past fatal your injuries went doesn't really matter,
so whether your helmet kept your skull intact while your neck shattered
isn't really important.  A helmet in such an accident will make no
difference at all.  Hope that's clearer now.

-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 15:03:57 2004
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 14:49:43 -0400
To: "Rob Sharp" <rob@XXXXXX>, Stephen Miller <freecat@XXXXXX>,
   DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Why gear?

At 02:07 PM 5/20/04 -0400, Rob Sharp wrote:
>Cause it's glued to their skull and their is no possible room for the padding
>and such required for DOT.  If it doesn't have like 1 inch of padding or so
>then my guess is it's not DOT.

Sounds reasonable.  Just for info, I just checked my half helmet.  About an
inch thick all around.

>Hell at my MSF class some lady showed up and tried to pass his "Novelty"
>hemlet off as DOT.   Instructor didn't buy it and made her where a full face
>helmet MSF provided.  She could stop complaining about how she couldn't
breath
>or see as well as a half helmet.

True, but she still wouldn't be seeing or breathing as well.  I've worn
both, and the FF does restrict breathing a bit, and peripheral vision, and
hearing too.  You also can't speak as clearly and be heard while wearing
one.  On a highway it doesn't matter...and a bit of hearing impairment is a
Good Thing anyway, but other times it's nice to be able to catch movement
to the side, or breath deeply without fogging up your field of view, or
hear things behind you more easily, or exchange a comment with a riding
partner at a light.

For highway I prefer the Full Face.  I took both up to York last Friday for
the group ride to the H-D factory (nice tour BTW, but a lot like an airport
security check-in for some reason).  I wore the half-helmet up, and decided
to wear the full face for the trip back.  Too much 55mph and up speeds,
even on the route we took (no interstate), and the wind beating gets old
after a while.

For the scavenger hunt ride around Montgomery County on Saturday A bit over
90 miles total, average speed about 35-40mph). I wore the half helmet, and
was much more comfortable than I would have been with the full face (I've
done similar rides with it), and it was a lot less hassle, given the
frequent stops.  The half helmet I could leave on, but I'd have had to take
the full face off to deal with the folks at the stopping points.

Didn't hit a single cicada on either ride, though there were a couple of
near-misses, and in places I could hear them pretty loudly (while wearing
the half helmet anyway :-).

-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 15:04:55 2004
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:05:21 -0400
To: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>, cvkgpena@XXXXXX,
   dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Why gear?

At 11:07 AM 5/20/04 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote:
>So lets say there was no curb and he lived.  Can you
>imagine the road rash and potential broken bones if h
>had been wearing a 'leather vest' and Billy Idol
>gloves?

Leather won't prevent broken bones (look at Evil Kneivel...he's said he
just wears the leathers to hold things together for the ride to the
hospital ;-), but it does help with road rash a lot.

As for vests, if you can body surf on the vest (preferably covered with
medallions for increased durability and cool sparks), it will protect as
well as a jacket made of the same stuff.  Tumble and you'll want some arms
on the thing (I always wear some sort of jacket...just got a
nylon/polyester one because it's cooler for the summer than my leather FXRG).

Gloves?  I've fallen on my pedal bikes as a kid lots of times (and
skateboards, and roller skates)...never while wearing gloves, and sometimes
on asphalt or worse (gravel embedded in tar was a favorite paving method in
Norfolk at the time...after a few years it looks a lot like asphalt, except
for the gravel teeth sticking up out of it...).  The injuries were always
to my palms...the part covered by the half-gloves...not to my fingers.
Instinct splays the fingers out for impact, and tilts the hands up, you
don't tend to make a fist to land on.  Training has taught me that trying
to land like that is stupid to start with...a great way to break wrists
though.

Is more equipment going to protect you in more situations than less?
Probably.  Is better quality equipment going to protect you in more
situations than poorer quality equipment?  Probably.  Is protection in an
accident the only factor to consider?  Nope.  If it was I wouldn't be
riding in the first place.  Everyone finds their own "comfort level".  For
some that's in a Volvo.  For others it's in full leathers and full face
helmet.  For others it's a half helmet and shorty gloves.  For still others
it's a T-shirt and shorts.  It can also vary with the type of riding being
done, and where it's being done, and what the environment is at the time.
It can also vary with stage of life too.  Not everyone is 20-something and
trying to look pretty to attract a mate.  Priorities vary.  How much life
you are risking does too.

-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 15:12:43 2004
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 12:12:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Why gear?
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

Mike, you have written alot of crap but this one takes
the cake:

<<As for vests, if you can body surf on the vest
(preferably covered with medallions for increased
durability and cool sparks), it will protect
as well as a jacket made of the same stuff. >>

The stupidity of this comment is mind-boggling.  You
can surf on a loose vest, the leather is so much
thinner than a quality jacket, no armor, on and on....


blah blah blah, drivel, blah.....

Yep and seatbelts don't save lives, nor do airbags.
Smoking is not bad for you, crack is good for your
heart and you really CAN increase your d**k size by 30%!




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year
http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 15:13:07 2004
Subject: RE: Helmets (Was: Why gear?)
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:12:54 -0400
From: "Verde, Robert" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>
To: "Mike Bartman" <omni@XXXXXX>,
   "Mark Kitchell" <markkitchell@XXXXXX>,
   "Stephen Miller" <freecat@XXXXXX>, "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Unless of course we're talking Japanese swords, where we could get into discussions on such arcana as tsuba and the very collectible netsuke...  Having beat a few leaf springs into edged weapons, I do know the lingo, but I was genericising to denote my uncertainty as to actual scabbard (sheath) contents.  It would only be a hilt if it was actually a weapon, a musical saw, for a possible alternative that can be protected in a sheath, has the more generic handle.

Whereas precision in all things is definitely desirable, there comes a point when overly pendantic phrasing tends to obscure ready assimilation of the transmitted information.

For a note of irony, the modern GI issue Kevlar helmet most closely resembles the German WW1/WW2 model.

Robert

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Bartman [mailto:omni@XXXXXX]
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 2:19 PM
To: Verde, Robert; Mark Kitchell; Stephen Miller; DC Cycles
Subject: RE: Helmets (Was: Why gear?)


At 01:35 PM 5/20/04 -0400, Verde, Robert wrote:
> that he also had a scabbard (complete with handle, I admit that I did not
>actually see a sword blade) strapped across his back.  It was a full-face
>helmet,

I believe the "handle" of a sword is more commonly referred to as a "hilt".
 The part you hold onto is the "grip".  The knobby part on the end away
from the blade is the pommel", and holds the grip onto the "tang", which is
the blade extension that the grip wraps around.  Depending on the type of
sword, there may also have been one or more quillions (cross guard), or
some other kind of hand protection.  A "basket hilt" would be the sword
equivalent of a full face helmet, wrapping around the hand as much as
possible to limit injury.  A knuckle bow would be more like a 3/4 helmet.

I wonder what sort of drag he got from the horsehair plume on his helmet?
Sounds wild anyway.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 15:16:42 2004
From: Bob Meyer <rmeyer9@XXXXXX>
Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX
To: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>, Dave Yates <Dave@XXXXXX>,
   dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Re: Why gear?
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:16:33 -0400


>
> From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
> Date: 2004/05/20 Thu PM 02:33:35 EDT
> To: Dave Yates <Dave@XXXXXX>,  dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> Subject: Re: Why gear?
>
> At 01:47 PM 5/20/04 -0400, Dave Yates wrote:
>
> >Put on full face helmet, full leather suit.  Walk outside to
> >the pavement.  Stand straight up and let yourself fall over
> >backwards.  Have a witness in case you lose conciousness; log
> >your injuries and rate the amount of pain on a scale of 1 -10.
> >
> >Now, remove all protective gear, and repeat the above
> >experiment with jeans, a tee shirt and tennis shoes on.
> >
> >Report back with results.
>
> Did that inadvertently a few years ago.  Slipped on the ice in the
> driveway, with feet going completely out from under me, followed by a drop
> to the concrete.  I was wearing jeans and a T-shirt and sneakers.  Landed
> on my back, slightly turned to one side, so the left side got a bit more
> impact than the right.
>
> Result?  No injuries at all...not even a scratch.

Didn't land on your head though, did you.

Tell you what, try the same thing, but jump off a bicycle at about 20mph.  Hmm, no, don't want to damage the bicyle.  I got it: get someone to drive through a parking lot at about 20mph, then jump out the passenger door in full gear.  Repeat in shorts and T-shirt.  Report back.

Bob

Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157
'01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa"
'92 ST1100, "red STag"
'02 919, "still looking for a name"

A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers....

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 15:23:42 2004
From: bernescut@XXXXXX
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: Greetlets
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:23:16 -0400

Welcome Andy!
If I get a babysitter (At 2&1/2 I can no longer stuff her in the tankbag)
I'll be at CarPool's as well. I'll be the bald guy on the yellow CBR.
Cedric Bernescut
2000 CBR600F4
Annandale, VA

Get your drug-free boost:

http://tinyurl.com/zbgs






I'll be going to Bike Night so am looking forward to meeting a bunch of
new riders. Look for the bald guy on the Black CBR drooling over
anything chrome. Maybe that should narrow it down to about 50 people?

Cheers,
/Andy

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 15:31:20 2004
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:31:00 -0400
From: Brian Roach <roach@XXXXXX>
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Why gear?

Mike Bartman wrote:

> Leather won't prevent broken bones

No, but the armor and padding often contained therein will. That's what
it's there for - it absorbs and/or distributes the impact force over a
greater area.

Mike, sometimes your logic truly baffles me.

Come off a bike at about 50mph sometime and let me know how the no-gear
thing works out. Having come off of them from speeds anywhere between
40mph and 100+mph, I gotta tell you ... the results would have been
vastly different in every case had I been wearing a T-shirt instead of
full leathers (with body armor), back protector, boots, gloves, etc. I
have gotten up, dusted myself off, and walked away from what a squid in
minimal or no gear would be in the hospital for skin grafts. The
abrasions left in leathers don't lie.

In 6 years, I've gone through 3 helmets ... one get-off, at what would
have been a legal street speed (~50mph), left deep abrasions in the chin
bar... my chin wouldn't have faired so well in a half or even 3/4
helmet.  As for the whole breathing and vision thing, that's pure
nonsense and anti-helmet zealot rhetoric. I have never had a problem
breathing, even in 100 degree heat while racing which is a fairly
strenuous activity. I would challenge you to find a racer that has.

If people choose not to wear gear that is *very likely* to minimize
damage to themselves in the event of a crash, that's fine. It's their
skin, and statistically, you're actually not very likely to need it if
you're a responsible rider. However ... trying to rationalize that act
by telling yourself it wouldn't help or make a difference in most cases
just boggles the mind.

- Roach

--
http://www.speedwerks.com
The one-stop shop for all your motorcycling needs!
(302) 672 - 7223

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 15:35:55 2004
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:35:50 -0400
From: Dave Yates <Dave@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Why gear?
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

MB clarifies:
> My comment was aimed at the fatality end of the scale, BTW.
>Dead is dead.  How far past fatal your injuries went doesn't
>really matter...

[Dave] It is clearer, and your point is a legitimate one, but
I would point out we do get periodic Newbies who come here
seeking input.  It has been a long tradition (which should
never be broken in my opinion) of DCC that if you can afford
the bike, you can afford good gear.  Good gear is cheaper
than a hospital stay for road rash and skin grafts.  While I
don't think I ever directly asked, it was this very list
which convinced me to buy gear as a relatively new moto
rider.  None of us here wants to ever find out that a DCC
member did not survive a get off where gear would've made the
difference.

Dave Yates

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 15:42:49 2004
From: Bob Meyer <rmeyer9@XXXXXX>
Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Re: Why gear?
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:42:39 -0400

> From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>

>and you really CAN increase your d**k size by 30%!

Nah, I'm afraid I'd hurt my wife if I did that.....

Bob

Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157
'01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa"
'92 ST1100, "red STag"
'02 919, "still looking for a name"

A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers....

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 15:50:24 2004
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:50:04 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
From: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
Reply-To: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
To: "Smith,Andrew" <asmith@XXXXXX>,
   DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Greetlets


-----Original Message-----
From: "Smith, Andrew" <asmith@XXXXXX>

Hello everyone,

My name's Andy and I've been lurking on this group for a couple of days
so thought it was about time I introduced myself. Seems like a great
group you've got going here, very informative, little BS. ....

---------

Are you sure you didn't cross-post by accident?  Doesn't sound like the DC-Cycles list I know and love, esp. having just "bulk-deleted" the "Why gear?" thread.

Anyway, welcome to the nuthouse Andy!  :)



Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org
95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour]

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 15:52:01 2004
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 09:56:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Steven Burrow <s_burrow@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Report the idiot cage driver
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX


Real problem with this one.
Basically, there is no way to say who was driving at
the time. Why should a letter go into my file if
someone else was at fault?

Steve
'01 YZF






__________________________________
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Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year
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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 16:02:23 2004
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 16:02:19 -0400
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Report the idiot cage driver

Same as a red light camera violation - you are responsible for the vehicle
registered in your name.  At least it isn't a blind fine money maker like
the red light and speed cameras.

At 12:56 PM 5/20/2004, Steven Burrow wrote:
>Real problem with this one.
>Basically, there is no way to say who was driving at
>the time. Why should a letter go into my file if
>someone else was at fault?

___________________________________________
         Mike Troutman
         http://www.troutman.org

When weapons are blunted, and ardor dampened,
strength exhausted, and resources depleted,
the neighboring rulers will take advantage of these complications
  - Sun Tzu



From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 16:09:33 2004
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 16:09:16 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
From: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
Reply-To: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
To: Sean Steele <sean@XXXXXX>, DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: A (im)Modest Proposal



-----Original Message-----
From: Sean Steele <sean@XXXXXX>


Permit me to get philosophical for a moment.

Beyond the prosaic financial, spatial, and maintenance considerations of
buying a second (or newer/better/different) bike, how does one stay
happy with what they currently ride?

-----

Get married??  :)  Thoughts of multiple bike lust usually go out the window once you have to run purchases past the "War Dept."  Although, I have to give Christina credit, she's been put up with four bike purchases so far and lets me keep two motorcycles about the place.



Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org
95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour]

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 16:15:56 2004
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 16:15:52 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
From: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
Reply-To: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
To: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: Report the idiot cage driver



-----Original Message-----
From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>

Same as a red light camera violation - you are responsible for the vehicle
registered in your name.  At least it isn't a blind fine money maker like
the red light and speed cameras.

At 12:56 PM 5/20/2004, Steven Burrow wrote:
>Real problem with this one.
>Basically, there is no way to say who was driving at
>the time. Why should a letter go into my file if
>someone else was at fault?

----

Sounds like a feel-good measure that will have no effect in bringing the truly dangerous road menaces to heel.  I doubt any of the anonymously-reported information  in one's "file" could ever be used at trial.  IANAL, but it sounds a lot like "hearsay" to me.



Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org
95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour]

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 16:41:27 2004
Subject: RE: A (im)Modest Proposal
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 16:41:17 -0400
From: "Smith, Andrew" <asmith@XXXXXX>
To: "Sean Steele" <sean@XXXXXX>, "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Sean,
Modifications, brother! Whether aesthetic or engine-tuning, easy or hard
to install, worthless or worthwhile, I use any excuse to get down and
dirty with my bike. Nothing makes me happier than spilling bike guts all
over the place, learning how a new bit works, or installing something I
find visually appealing and then managing to botch it back together
again (for the most part). It's the spirit of constant improvement that
attracts me, and I think (maybe misguidedly) that it helps me to know my
bike even better.

Other than that, unless you're a Moto GP racer, I think that
self-improvement is the key to continual bike enjoyment. On my last bike
I thought I was getting bored with it but in reality what I was hitting
was a personal technique barrier - as I learned to cope with riding
higher revs, faster corners I unlocked more potential in the bike and
thus enjoyed it even more. Again, unless you ride an RS50 I doubt many
of us are able to express the full potential of the bike safely on the
road. How about a track day sometime Sean?

Cheers,
/Andy

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sean Steele <sean@XXXXXX>
> Permit me to get philosophical for a moment.
>
> Beyond the prosaic financial, spatial, and maintenance
> considerations of buying a second (or newer/better/different)
> bike, how does one stay happy with what they currently ride?
> -----

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 17:17:48 2004
From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 17:17:39 EDT
Subject: Re: A (im)Modest Proposal
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

In a message dated 5/19/2004 8:37:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
mike@XXXXXX writes:

> I don't feel much of the oscillation anymore, but there is some
>  still there.

It is in the nature of motorcycles to have some oscillation. Let go of the
handlebars as the bike slows and virtually every bike will "wobble" some. If
everything else checks out and it is just a little wiggle I would just ignore it.




John Walters (Long John)
PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Up near DC

1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European
1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles
1976, Honda CR250M  Motowhat racer

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 17:18:13 2004
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 17:11:57 -0400
To: "Verde, Robert" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>,
   "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Helmets (Was: Why gear?)

At 03:12 PM 5/20/04 -0400, Verde, Robert wrote:

>Whereas precision in all things is definitely desirable, there comes a
point when overly pendantic phrasing tends to obscure ready assimilation of
the transmitted information.

When it comes to arcane technical jargon in a non-technical forum, I agree
fully.  I don't think "hilt" is all that obscure for most folks though.

Now if we got into talking about European plate armor from the 15th and
16th centuries, using descriptive terms rather than actual names might be
wise.  While most folks probably know what "greaves" are from watching
gladiator movies, "cuises" or "pauldron" is going to slip past almost
everyone who hasn't looked into the subject I suspect, and the less exact,
but more understandable terms, "thigh armor" and "shoulder armor" are better.

-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 17:18:14 2004
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 17:19:57 -0400
To: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Why gear?

At 12:12 PM 5/20/04 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote:
>Mike, you have written alot of crap but this one takes
>the cake:
>
><<As for vests, if you can body surf on the vest
>(preferably covered with medallions for increased
>durability and cool sparks), it will protect
>as well as a jacket made of the same stuff. >>
>
>The stupidity of this comment is mind-boggling.  You

I guess the "cool sparks" from the medallions bit wasn't enough to twig it
for the humor impaired...

>Yep and seatbelts don't save lives, nor do airbags.

Not always they don't.  Sometimes they kill people.  Had a roommate who's
mother was killed because she was wearing a seatbelt at the time of an
accident.  Without it on she'd probably have lived...according to the
rescue folks who pried her out of the wreckage (side impact...she was held
in the seat instead of being thrown onto the other side of the vehicle
where there was almost no damage...so the metal folded around her, cut her
up, and she bled to death before they could get her out).  Air bags kill
lots of people...those larger or smaller than they were designed for...ask
the feds about it.

>Smoking is not bad for you,

Depends on many other factors.  Won't hurt you a bit if you are a
humor-impaired jerk.  Something else is likely to get you killed a lot
sooner than lung cancer or a heart attack.

>heart and you really CAN increase your d**k size by 30%!

You can't do that???  Wow.  Ok, I guess that explains why you are so cranky...

-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 17:18:56 2004
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 14:18:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Why gear?
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX


--- Skip <skip@XXXXXX> wrote:
>
>
> Brian Roach wrote:
>
> >
> > But I'm happier being safer than sorry. It goes back to that
> risk/reward
> > thing. I don't really mind wearing the gear, so there's not much
> reward
> > (to me) in risking not wearing it.
>
> I feel naked and uncomfortable without gear on.
>
> Years ago  maryland had no helmet law, and two times I rode sans helmet.
>  I was
> too uncomfortable without my lid and stopped both times after about 10
> minutes
> to put it back on.

I did that too back in the '70's. I rode through the state and, just for
the heck of it, took my helmet off. A few minutes later I put it back on.

>
> --skip
>

Carl

=====
02 Harley FXSTI
95 Suzuki GSXR 750W
76 Honda Chopper (in progress)




__________________________________
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Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year
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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 17:28:48 2004
From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 17:28:34 EDT
Subject: Re: Why gear?
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

In a message dated 5/19/2004 11:40:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
omni@XXXXXX writes:

> I've not seen a Harley rider (or any other rider) in a helmet-requiring
>  state (like VA or MD) with a non-DOT helmet...and I've ridden with dozens
>  of them in the last few months.  Many do wear half-helmets, but all are
>  DOT-approved.

That is funny, I see them all the time, hell you can see them clean across
the road. It is easy to tell, the helmet sits close to the head, more like a
fiberglass hat then a helmet due to the lack of an impact absorbing liner. There
is a big difference between a helmet with a sticker that says dot (as in
period) and one that has a Department Of Transportation approval sticker.

And I do not give a (*&^) if _you_ wear a lid or not it aint none of my
business.




John Walters (Long John)
PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Up near DC

1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European
1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles
1976, Honda CR250M  Motowhat racer

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 17:41:00 2004
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:50:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Steven Burrow <s_burrow@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Report the idiot cage driver
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

It's not the same as the cameras. There is physical
evidence of your vehicle going through the light on
red. All we have is someones word in this case and
who's to say they aren't just making it up.

Steve
'01 YZF




__________________________________
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Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year
http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 17:58:49 2004
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 18:00:31 -0400
To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX, Dave Yates <Dave@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Re: Why gear?

At 03:16 PM 5/20/04 -0400, Bob Meyer wrote:
>> From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>

>> to the concrete.  I was wearing jeans and a T-shirt and sneakers.  Landed
>> on my back, slightly turned to one side, so the left side got a bit more
>> impact than the right.
>>
>> Result?  No injuries at all...not even a scratch.
>
>Didn't land on your head though, did you.

Nope.  Keeping the head tucked forward is something you learn early on when
learning to fall like that.  Even on a padded mat it will ring your chimes
if you don't.

The rest of your post seems to have missed most of my point, and
concentrated on something I never said.  I never said that you wouldn't get
hurt if you weren't wearing the gear required to survive a given accident
unscathed.  If you end up needing gear that you aren't wearing, you will
get hurt more than if you were wearing it.  Period.  The discussions stem
from differences of opinion over the likelihood of any given kind of
accident for a given rider, and the tolerance level for the results, not
about what will happen to them physically if it occurs.

There are lots of accident scenarios, lots of gear combinations, and lots
of different tolerances for injury.  The idea that if you don't wear full
race gear every time you ride you will get seriously injured the first time
you have an accident is as wrong as the idea that you can wear shorts and a
T-shirt and never get hurt no matter what happens.

The more gear you wear, the more accident scenarios you can survive with
minimal damage.  Protection...protects, to some extent anyway.

On the other hand, the more gear you wear, the more hassle is involved in
riding in the first place, and if you enclose yourself in enough bulky hot
stuff to limit your risk, you might as well just get another pair of wheels
and "dress" in steel and glass...you'll have stopped experiencing your
environment and taken to making your own anyway.

Where you land along the continuum will vary.  Some aren't bothered by full
leathers and helmet, and don't feel comfortable without it.  Some feel the
same way about 4 wheels and a steel cage.  Some are fine with just a jacket
and a 3/4 helmet and good boots and gloves.  Some are fine with jeans and a
T-shirt and a pair of sunglasses.  I doubt that any who ride are unaware of
the risks, or what *can* happen, and *has* happened, to some people in the
past, and which will likely happen again to *someone*, *sometime* again.
Some are just more worried about it than others.

I asked a non-helmet wearer why they didn't wear a helmet once.  "Don't
like 'em." was the answer I got.  When I asked if he was aware of the
likely outcome if he had an accident where his head hit something solid
without a helmet, he said, "Yeah, probably the same thing as if I hit
something a little harder with one on...I'll probably die.  But until then,
I'll *live*."

Riding without a helmet is riskier than riding with one.  Helmets aren't
expensive compared to a bike, or even to gas these days (basic cheap half
helmet: $50.  Fill up at the Airpark Shell this morning: ~$10), so riding
without one isn't necessary.  On the other hand, extreme skiing is riskier
than staying on the bunny slope, and it isn't necessary either...but people
still do it, and sometimes die in the process.  Is it worth it?  Apparently
it is to them.  Everybody dies sometime.


-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 17:59:08 2004
From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 17:58:55 EDT
Subject: Re: A (im)Modest Proposal
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

In a message dated 5/19/2004 8:01:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
sean@XXXXXX writes:

> how does one stay
>  happy with what they currently ride?

Before you buy:

A:  A solid knowledge of yourself, your riding style and needs. Knowing what
you need a bike to do, and what you want it to do.

B:  A solid knowledge of the motorcycle market, what is out there, and how it
works so that you can match A+B

Then look at all the bikes that match A+B and pick the one that tickles your
cookies.



John Walters (Long John)
PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Up near DC

1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European
1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles
1976, Honda CR250M  Motowhat racer

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 18:11:42 2004
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 18:13:28 -0400
From: Laura Roach <laura@XXXXXX>
To: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
CC: rmeyer9@XXXXXX, Dave Yates <Dave@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Why gear?

Mike Bartman wrote:

>The discussions stem
>from differences of opinion over the likelihood of any given kind of
>accident for a given rider, and the tolerance level for the results, not
>about what will happen to them physically if it occurs.
>
>
>
Ahhh, I get it now.  You're one of those "it'll never happen to me"
people!?!?

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 18:34:05 2004
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 18:29:39 -0400
To: Dave Yates <Dave@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Why gear?

At 03:35 PM 5/20/04 -0400, Dave Yates wrote:

>than a hospital stay for road rash and skin grafts.  While I
>don't think I ever directly asked, it was this very list
>which convinced me to buy gear as a relatively new moto
>rider.

As a new rider back in the early 80s I always wore a leather moto jacket
(Hein Gerike) and a full face SNELL-approved helmet (Bell) and full gloves
that fit up over the wrists of the jacket (helps limit the sleeves rolling
up in a slide is my theory), jeans and Bike Boots (steel toes, halfway up
the calves heavy leather, non-skid soles).

When I got back into riding last fall I got even better gear, and I always
wore it.  Re-learning to ride and being on a new and unfamiliar bike were
both big risk increasers, and I wanted all the protection I could get to
bring it back down to an acceptable level.  I still have that gear, and I
still wear it sometimes...when it's colder, or when the ride is something
new where I'm not sure I have a good grip on how I'll handle it.

It was 85 degrees on the ride up to Delaware, but I wore the FXRG jacket
and full face helmet and full gloves.  I was pretty warm, sweated a bunch,
and got comments about how much gear I was wearing from several others
("Aren't you hot?"  "That's what the ladies tell me...", ha ha ha...), but
I hadn't done an interstate trip of that distance, or with a large group,
before, so I wanted all the protection I could stand.  I didn't wear the
leather pants (wore jeans), but I wore all the rest.  At Mike's Famous, I
decided I could risk some finger damage, and got half gloves.  Besides
cooling my hands a fair bit, they also let air up the sleeves of the
jacket, which cooled things considerably on the ride home (which wasn't
much interstate...301 to 50 then up to 32).

For York I took both helmets (full and half), and wore the FXRG...but it
was *really* hot (same temps as the Delaware trip, but slower speeds and
more stops), so in York I got a nylon/polyester jacket that's a lot lighter
weight, but should still offer some protection in a fall.  There's some
padding at joints and down the back, and it's slippery.  It's not race
gear, but it's a whole lot better than a T-shirt.  That's what I rode home
in, with the FXRG in a saddlebag.  It's what I've been wearing on rides
since then too.  Still not *cool*, but better.  I'll go back to the FXRG
when it starts to cool down in the fall, or maybe if I end up with another
high speed interstate run even while it's hot out.

I always wear my moto boots (a lot like combat boots in design), as I don't
like broken toes from rocks, if I fall the ankles will be more likely to
survive, and even in 90 degree heat, they don't bother me any.  Reasons to
wear them, and none not to, so I wear them.

It's a balancing act.  Comfort, enjoyment, protection, risk, tolerance of
injury.  It shifts all the time as I learn more about my capabilities and
those of the bike, and as I get better at riding, and as the riding I'm
doing at the moment changes.  What gear I pick changes as a result.

Newbies should wear as much as they can.  Those who push the envelope
should too, no matter how much experience they have.  For the rest, it's a
judgement call.  As my dad liked to say when I was growing up, "You pays
your money and you takes your chances."  If it's worth it to take some
increased risk, take it.  Otherwise don't.



-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 18:36:34 2004
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 18:38:09 -0400
To: Laura Roach <laura@XXXXXX>
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Why gear?
Cc: rmeyer9@XXXXXX, Dave Yates <Dave@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX

At 06:13 PM 5/20/04 -0400, Laura Roach wrote:
>Mike Bartman wrote:
>
>>The discussions stem
>>from differences of opinion over the likelihood of any given kind of
>>accident for a given rider, and the tolerance level for the results, not
>>about what will happen to them physically if it occurs.
>>
>Ahhh, I get it now.  You're one of those "it'll never happen to me"
>people!?!?

No, you don't get it now.  I never said that at all.

-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 19:49:01 2004
From: Stephen Miller <freecat@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Why gear?
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 19:49:12 -0400
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

I know by looking. Anyone who knows helmets well enough can tell. It
helps that I used to sell helmets and riding gear, but if you look
around a lot you can start to see the difference, even from several
feet away at a stoplight.  Even at speed, sometimes.

DOT doesn't approve beanies. Beanies are distinct from half-helmets,
btw. They're much smaller, with no foam liner to speak of.  I first saw
such helmets for sale, and DOT stickers for sale at the same booth,
back in 1994 at Laconia.  They exist, it's not a myth.

On May 20, 2004, at 1:06 PM, Mike Bartman wrote:
>
> If it has a DOT sticker, how do you know it isn't a DOT-approved
> helmet?
>
> -- Mike B.
>
> '04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley
> folks)
>
> Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's
> mistakes
> is better.
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 19:58:32 2004
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 16:58:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Report the idiot cage driver
To: Steven Burrow <s_burrow@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX

insurance companies aren't required to adhere to the rules
of evidence.... dave yates' (i believe it was dave) comment
make perfect sense.  these types of information-gathering
efforts will lead to nothing but higher insurance costs
(for all of us) over the long haul.  don't participate.



--- Steven Burrow <s_burrow@XXXXXX> wrote:
> It's not the same as the cameras. There is physical
> evidence of your vehicle going through the light on
> red. All we have is someones word in this case and
> who's to say they aren't just making it up.
>
> Steve
> '01 YZF





__________________________________
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Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year
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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 19:59:15 2004
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 16:59:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: A (im)Modest Proposal
To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX

cupped front tire?


--- PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote:
> In a message dated 5/19/2004 8:37:06 PM Eastern Daylight
> Time,
> mike@XXXXXX writes:
>
> > I don't feel much of the oscillation anymore, but there
> is some
> >  still there.
>
> It is in the nature of motorcycles to have some
> oscillation. Let go of the
> handlebars as the bike slows and virtually every bike
> will "wobble" some. If
> everything else checks out and it is just a little wiggle
> I would just ignore it.
>
>
>
>
> John Walters (Long John)
> PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
> Up near DC
>
> 1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European
> 1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles
> 1976, Honda CR250M  Motowhat racer
>





__________________________________
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Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year
http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 20:01:28 2004
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 17:01:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Why gear?
To: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>, Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>,
   dc-cycles@XXXXXX

lol.  try harder if you want to pull your head out of your
ass.  when you typed it, you meant it.


--- Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX> wrote:
> At 12:12 PM 5/20/04 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote:
> >Mike, you have written alot of crap but this one takes
> >the cake:
> >
> ><<As for vests, if you can body surf on the vest
> >(preferably covered with medallions for increased
> >durability and cool sparks), it will protect
> >as well as a jacket made of the same stuff. >>
> >
> >The stupidity of this comment is mind-boggling.  You
>
> I guess the "cool sparks" from the medallions bit wasn't
> enough to twig it
> for the humor impaired...
>
> >Yep and seatbelts don't save lives, nor do airbags.
>
> Not always they don't.  Sometimes they kill people.  Had
> a roommate who's
> mother was killed because she was wearing a seatbelt at
> the time of an
> accident.  Without it on she'd probably have
> lived...according to the
> rescue folks who pried her out of the wreckage (side
> impact...she was held
> in the seat instead of being thrown onto the other side
> of the vehicle
> where there was almost no damage...so the metal folded
> around her, cut her
> up, and she bled to death before they could get her out).
>  Air bags kill
> lots of people...those larger or smaller than they were
> designed for...ask
> the feds about it.
>
> >Smoking is not bad for you,
>
> Depends on many other factors.  Won't hurt you a bit if
> you are a
> humor-impaired jerk.  Something else is likely to get you
> killed a lot
> sooner than lung cancer or a heart attack.
>
> >heart and you really CAN increase your d**k size by 30%!
>
> You can't do that???  Wow.  Ok, I guess that explains why
> you are so cranky...
>
> -- Mike B.





__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year
http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 20:08:13 2004
From: Stephen Miller <freecat@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Why gear?
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 20:08:28 -0400
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>


On May 20, 2004, at 3:12 PM, Mark Kitchell wrote:
>
> Yep and seatbelts don't save lives, nor do airbags.

They (seatbelts) might not always save lives *on net* (S. Peltzman
1975), but clearly they save more lives of people who wear them.
Careful, though.  A good study of motorcycle accidents may show that
wearing less gear can make some (maybe older, cruiser-buying) riders be
more cautious.  My guess, though, is that riding gearless is often more
about low risk aversion and/or crash optimism that affects every aspect
of riding.  As for airbags, it's well known that they're mixed bags,
pardon the pun.  Not good for kids, possibly a problem for small women,
etc.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 20:53:35 2004
From: "W.S." <mobacc@XXXXXX>
To: "DC-Cycles" <DC-Cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Heading for Hadaes???
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 20:53:26 -0400

Bob Ryan (Ch4 Weather) said tonight we're headed for the warmest May on
record.

Let's see.  That leaves June, July, August, September eligible for new highs
also.

Piling up early riding time.

Incidentally, an aside re The Preakness which, on a whim, I attempted to
attend last Saturday.  As a P. newbie, thought 9a would be a comfortable
arrival time for 6:15p race - close in parking, etc.  Not a chance.  Many
buses, cone-laned roads, police, already crowds jamming traffic.  Opted to
visit Harford County friends.  Would try for at least 7a next time.


Bill S. / DC
'99 VN750 > liquid cooled
Join the AMA.  Help protect my riding fun.



From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 20:57:13 2004
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 20:44:40 -0400
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Bruce Brownlee <brownlee_b@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Why gear?

This is easy to solve.....  The problem is not that peoples opinions
vary about what gear should be worn, its primarily one thing.....

People seem to feel the need to attack a group and stereotype
with no regard for truth.  This winds up insulting someone and
the arguement rapidly turns into a "who's got the biggest dick"
contest.

I'd love to have a rational conversation about motorcycles, ANY
aspect of them (performance, ability, gear, etc) that didnt start
with "how come I see all the harley/sportbike/etc riders....."

Face it guys, when you start it that way, it is painfully obvious
you dont want an answer to the question, you just want to
attack a group to build up your own ego.

It used to be called 'flamebait', now its called conversation.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 21:39:19 2004
From: "W.S." <mobacc@XXXXXX>
To: "DC-Cycles" <DC-Cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re:  New Biker in Need of Advice
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 21:39:09 -0400

Seconding Coleman's Powersports in Falls Church, probably the most
Metro-accessible large dealer from the middle of DC.  Orange Line to E.
Falls Church, 10m bus ride to almost front door.  [Note:  Previous angst on
this list re Colemans.]


Bill S. / DC
'99 VN750 > I want to be included in "Bike on Metro".
Join the AMA.  Help protect my riding fun.

***********

From: "marc shaller" <marc_shaller@XXXXXX>

I am a new biker looking for a good place in and around the District to
purchase motorcycle gear.  I don't have a car so it would have to be metro
accessible.

...snip

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 21:42:12 2004
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 21:41:40 -0400
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: A (im)Modest Proposal

At 07:59 PM 5/20/2004, you wrote:
>cupped front tire?

New front and back.  I think the front axle bolt was too tight causing a rub.



_____________________________________
   Mike Troutman
        mike@XXXXXX
        http://www.troutman.org/vfr

         '97 Honda VFR 750
         AMA - http://www.amadirectlink.com/
         NMA - http://www.motorists.org

         "I'd rather die while I'm living, then live while I'm dead."
                 - Jimmy Buffett

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 23:26:30 2004
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 23:27:20 -0400
To: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>, Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>,
   dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Why gear?

At 05:01 PM 5/20/04 -0700, Tom Gimer wrote:
>lol.  try harder if you want to pull your head out of your
>ass.  when you typed it, you meant it.

Go fuck a goat.  As usual, you couldn't buy a clue if you wanted one.

-- Mike B.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 00:48:07 2004
From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 00:47:59 EDT
Subject: Re: A (im)Modest Proposal
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

In a message dated 5/20/2004 7:59:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
t_gimer@XXXXXX writes:

> cupped front tire?

No need for anything at all to be wrong.  Spinning objects tend to oscillate.
Think of a shopping cart, if you push one too fast the front wheels just go
nuts. Well a bike uses the same kind of rake/trail system to keep the front
wheel straight. The trick with bikes is to make the wobble occur at slow safe
speeds (where even hands resting on the bars will usually damp the motion)
instead of high speeds where it can throw a rider off. The Kawasaki 750 triple was
famous for going into a violent wobble at anything over 80, if you fought it
the bike would throw you off.

That is not to say that nothing is wrong, if someone feels that the wobble is
unnatural it should be checked out. It is just that it _may_ be nothing.


John Walters (Long John)
PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Up near DC

1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European
1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles
1976, Honda CR250M  Motowhat racer

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 00:51:17 2004
From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 00:51:07 EDT
Subject: Re: Why gear?
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

In a message dated 5/20/2004 8:08:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
freecat@XXXXXX writes:

> As for airbags, it's well known that they're mixed bags,

No one is ever going to convince me that having an explosive device (and it
is literally a bomb) pointed at your chest is a good idea.


John.
PenguinBiker@XXXXXX

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 01:05:15 2004
From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 01:05:03 EDT
Subject: Re: A (im)Modest Proposal
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

In a message dated 5/20/2004 9:42:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
mike@XXXXXX writes:

> I think the front axle bolt was too tight causing a rub.

WHOA! That should not be possible.
The axel tightens down on a heavy steel spacer, then an inner bearing race,
then on a long spacer that goes between bearings, inner race, spacer again,
there should be nothing in that system that could be compressed enough to cause
drag short of ungodly torque, and I mean breaker bar with a length of pipe
added for leverage. ( I have seen the inner spacer left out by various doofs, that
will damn sure cause drag. (Until the bearing explodes.))




John Walters (Long John)
PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Up near DC

1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European
1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles
1976, Honda CR250M  Motowhat racer

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 07:04:30 2004
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 04:04:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Why gear?
To: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX

--- Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX> wrote:
> At 05:01 PM 5/20/04 -0700, Tom Gimer wrote:
> >lol.  try harder if you want to pull your head out of
> your
> >ass.  when you typed it, you meant it.
>
> Go fuck a goat.  As usual, you couldn't buy a clue if you
> wanted one.

ah, how special.

here's an idea, windbag: let's poll the list and see if
anyone is tired of (i) your holier than thou attitude, (ii)
your
300-mile-slab-to-delaware-makes-me-an-experienced-rider
stories, or (iii) your sidestep anyone who actually calls
my bullshit tactics.

three votes here.

--
tg




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year
http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 07:57:37 2004
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 07:56:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: dan <dan@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Why gear?

On Thu, 20 May 2004, Stephen Miller wrote:

> I know by looking. Anyone who knows helmets well enough can tell. It
> helps that I used to sell helmets and riding gear, but if you look
> around a lot you can start to see the difference, even from several
> feet away at a stoplight.  Even at speed, sometimes.
>
> DOT doesn't approve beanies. Beanies are distinct from half-helmets,
> btw. They're much smaller, with no foam liner to speak of.  I first saw
> such helmets for sale, and DOT stickers for sale at the same booth,
> back in 1994 at Laconia.  They exist, it's not a myth.
>
> On May 20, 2004, at 1:06 PM, Mike Bartman wrote:
> >
> > If it has a DOT sticker, how do you know it isn't a DOT-approved
> > helmet?
> >


Stephen,

Mike continues to claim that he never sees Hardley riders wearing beanies,
yet everyone else has.  I see them every weekend, can spot them at speed
too.

Dan

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 08:19:04 2004
From: Stephen Miller <freecat@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Why gear?
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 08:19:20 -0400
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

To be totally fair, I've seen such helmets worn by metric cruiser
riders, and *gasp* sportbike riders in the last few years.  Never on a
Beemer, though.  That'd be a sight, a reflective and waterproof armored
BMW-spec textile suit with sticker-covered beanie (THE BITCH FELL
OFF!!) to top it off.

On May 21, 2004, at 7:56 AM, dan wrote:
>
> Stephen,
>
> Mike continues to claim that he never sees Hardley riders wearing
> beanies,
> yet everyone else has.  I see them every weekend, can spot them at
> speed
> too.
>
> Dan
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 08:29:21 2004
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 08:28:26 -0400
From: Tom <tdeboeser@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Why gear?

Tom Gimer wrote:

>--- Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX> wrote:
>
>
>>At 05:01 PM 5/20/04 -0700, Tom Gimer wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>
>ah, how special.
>
>here's an idea, windbag: let's poll the list and see if
>anyone is tired of (i) your holier than thou attitude, (ii)
>your
>300-mile-slab-to-delaware-makes-me-an-experienced-rider
>stories, or (iii) your sidestep anyone who actually calls
>my bullshit tactics.
>
>three votes here.
>
>

3 here, if only for the 3 page posts.

>--
>tg
>
>
>
Tom de '98 VTR

>
>
>__________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year
>http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer
>
>
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 08:45:20 2004
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 05:45:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: Wife Hits Husband on Motorcycle: Helmet Saves His Life
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

From the Edmonton Sun, May 18th/2004:


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wife plows into hubby

A motorcyclist sustained a fractured ankle last night
after his speed
bike was
hit from behind by a pickup truck driven by his wife,
police say.

The man was headed north on 66 Street near 133 Avenue
about 9 p.m. His
wife was
following behind in a Z-71 truck, police said.

A witness said the biker had been speaking with
someone in the truck at
an
earlier set of lights and then raced ahead.

He was later forced to change lanes when an emergency
vehicle with it's
lights
on came up from behind, said Doreen Czajkowsky.

"All of a sudden the motorcycle pulled in front and
slowed right down,"
she
said.

While police continue to investigate, they figure the
pickup driver may
not
have seen the motorcycle slow down, said Sgt. Dana
Donald.

Czajkowsky said she was startled by the sound of the
crash.

"It was the crack of the helmet (on the pavement) that
made an
incredible
sound," said Czajkowsky, herself a motorcyclist. "His
helmet saved his
life."

"He was pretty mad with his wife."

Paramedics took the man, described as in his mid-30's,
to the Royal
Alexandra
hospital. He was in stable condition with non-life
threatening
injuries, said
EMS Supt. Craig O'Callaghan.







__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year
http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 09:11:23 2004
From: "John White" <kokopellian@XXXXXX>
To: markkitchell@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: Wife Hits Husband on Motorcycle: Helmet Saves His Life
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 08:59:33 -0400

DAMN, taken out by your own Mrs. Cager.


>From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
>To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
>Subject: Wife Hits Husband on Motorcycle: Helmet Saves His Life
>Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 05:45:06 -0700 (PDT)
>
>From the Edmonton Sun, May 18th/2004:
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Wife plows into hubby
>
>A motorcyclist sustained a fractured ankle last night
>after his speed
>bike was
>hit from behind by a pickup truck driven by his wife,
>police say.
>
>The man was headed north on 66 Street near 133 Avenue
>about 9 p.m. His
>wife was
>following behind in a Z-71 truck, police said.
>
>A witness said the biker had been speaking with
>someone in the truck at
>an
>earlier set of lights and then raced ahead.
>
>He was later forced to change lanes when an emergency
>vehicle with it's
>lights
>on came up from behind, said Doreen Czajkowsky.
>
>"All of a sudden the motorcycle pulled in front and
>slowed right down,"
>she
>said.
>
>While police continue to investigate, they figure the
>pickup driver may
>not
>have seen the motorcycle slow down, said Sgt. Dana
>Donald.
>
>Czajkowsky said she was startled by the sound of the
>crash.
>
>"It was the crack of the helmet (on the pavement) that
>made an
>incredible
>sound," said Czajkowsky, herself a motorcyclist. "His
>helmet saved his
>life."
>
>"He was pretty mad with his wife."
>
>Paramedics took the man, described as in his mid-30's,
>to the Royal
>Alexandra
>hospital. He was in stable condition with non-life
>threatening
>injuries, said
>EMS Supt. Craig O'Callaghan.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>__________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year
>http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer
>


From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 09:14:29 2004
Subject: RE: Wife Hits Husband on Motorcycle: Helmet Saves His Life
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 09:14:21 -0400
From: "Verde, Robert" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>
To: "John White" <kokopellian@XXXXXX>, <markkitchell@XXXXXX>,
   <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Hey, she is a motoryclist too, according to the story.  So much for the theory that if you ride you are more aware of other riders, even when driving a cage...  LOL

Robert


-----Original Message-----
From: John White [mailto:kokopellian@XXXXXX]
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 9:00 AM
To: markkitchell@XXXXXX; dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: Wife Hits Husband on Motorcycle: Helmet Saves His Life


DAMN, taken out by your own Mrs. Cager.


From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 09:25:39 2004
From: Kirk Roy <kirkroy@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Why gear?
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 9:25:31 -0400

Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX> wrote:
> --- Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > At 05:01 PM 5/20/04 -0700, Tom Gimer wrote:
> > >lol.  try harder if you want to pull your head out of
> > your
> > >ass.  when you typed it, you meant it.
> >
> > Go fuck a goat.  As usual, you couldn't buy a clue if
> > you wanted one.
>
> ah, how special.
>
> here's an idea, windbag: let's poll the list and see if
> anyone is tired of (i) your holier than thou attitude,
> (ii) your 300-mile-slab-to-delaware-makes-me-an-experienced-rider
> stories, or (iii) your sidestep anyone who actually calls
> my bullshit tactics.
>
> three votes here.

I've got Mike filtered now so, outside of you guys replying to him, I don't see his messages at all. I vote all three as well.

Of course, I'm not terribly active on the list any more... Whatever happened to the good old days with Brina, Squeekers, and other actually interesting characters?

Kirk

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 09:32:20 2004
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 09:32:10 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
From: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
Reply-To: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: A (im)Modest Proposal
Cc: mike@XXXXXX



-----Original Message-----
From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Sent: May 21, 2004 12:47 AM
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: A (im)Modest Proposal

In a message dated 5/20/2004 7:59:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
t_gimer@XXXXXX writes:

> cupped front tire?

No need for anything at all to be wrong.  Spinning objects tend to oscillate.
Think of a shopping cart, if you push one too fast the front wheels just go
nuts. Well a bike uses the same kind of rake/trail system to keep the front
wheel straight. The trick with bikes is to make the wobble occur at slow safe
speeds (where even hands resting on the bars will usually damp the motion)
instead of high speeds where it can throw a rider off. The Kawasaki 750 triple was
famous for going into a violent wobble at anything over 80, if you fought it
the bike would throw you off.

-----------

Just a data point for Mike or anyone who's interested.  Every Dunlop tire I had on my 95 VFR (D205 and D207) developed a decel wobble at precisely 35-40 mph.  Something about the tread pattern, the steel belts inside the tire, or whatever.  Bike just didn't like 'em.  I never tried a D220, though.  Nothing violent or uncontrollable, just noticeable, esp. with hard bags on the bike.

Bridgestone BT010s and Pirelli Diablos:  no wobble.  Even a severely worn cupped-all-to-hell BT010.  Rock solid.  Weird.

----------

Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org
95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour]

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 09:37:20 2004
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 09:36:45 -0400
To: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: A (im)Modest Proposal


>> > I think the front axle bolt was too tight causing a rub.
>>
>>WHOA! That should not be possible....<snip>
>>there should be nothing in that system that could be compressed enough to
>>cause
>>drag short of ungodly torque, <snip>

It is possible to have the front incorrectly positioned before tightening
the axle pinch bolts causing a rub.  It doesn't matter any more, it is
running fine now, and torqued to spec.



___________________________________________
     Mike Troutman
         http://www.troutman.org/vfr
         1997 Honda VFR 750
            AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/
            NMA http://www.motorists.org

One who knows the enemy and knows himself
will not be in danger in a hundred battles.
One who does not know the enemy but knows himself
will sometimes win, sometimes lose.
One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself
will be in danger in every battle.
  - Sun Tzu

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 10:00:12 2004
From: "Perry Coleman" <perrycoleman@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: Wife Hits Husband on Motorcycle: Helmet Saves His Life
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 09:48:46 -0400

"speed bike"? What the heck is a speed bike?

Perry

>From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
>To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
>Subject: Wife Hits Husband on Motorcycle: Helmet Saves His Life
>Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 05:45:06 -0700 (PDT)
>
>From the Edmonton Sun, May 18th/2004:
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Wife plows into hubby
>
>A motorcyclist sustained a fractured ankle last night
>after his speed
>bike was
>hit from behind by a pickup truck driven by his wife,
>police say.
[snip]

_________________________________________________________________
Stop worrying about overloading your inbox - get MSN Hotmail Extra Storage!
http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 10:18:30 2004
From: Stephen Miller <freecat@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Wife Hits Husband on Motorcycle: Helmet Saves His Life
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 10:18:47 -0400
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

1/3 of a Speed Triple??


On May 21, 2004, at 9:48 AM, Perry Coleman wrote:

> "speed bike"? What the heck is a speed bike?
>
> Perry
>
>> From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
>> To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
>> Subject: Wife Hits Husband on Motorcycle: Helmet Saves His Life
>> Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 05:45:06 -0700 (PDT)
>>
>> From the Edmonton Sun, May 18th/2004:
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ---------
>> Wife plows into hubby
>>
>> A motorcyclist sustained a fractured ankle last night
>> after his speed
>> bike was
>> hit from behind by a pickup truck driven by his wife,
>> police say.
> [snip]
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Stop worrying about overloading your inbox - get MSN Hotmail Extra
> Storage! http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 10:21:04 2004
Subject: RE: Report the idiot cage driver
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 10:25:07 -0400
From: "Julian Halton" <julian@XXXXXX>
To: "Troutman" <mike@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

This is far worse...it encourages informers, creates an atmosphere of
suspicion and there is no recourse to such complaints.  Sure he may have
flipped you the bird but that could have been AFTER you drifted into his
lane and almost knackered him.  Too Stalinesque for my liking.

-----Original Message-----
From: Troutman [mailto:mike@XXXXXX]
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 4:02 PM
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: Report the idiot cage driver

Same as a red light camera violation - you are responsible for the
vehicle registered in your name.  At least it isn't a blind fine money
maker like the red light and speed cameras.

At 12:56 PM 5/20/2004, Steven Burrow wrote:
>Real problem with this one.
>Basically, there is no way to say who was driving at the time. Why
>should a letter go into my file if someone else was at fault?

___________________________________________
         Mike Troutman
         http://www.troutman.org

When weapons are blunted, and ardor dampened, strength exhausted, and
resources depleted, the neighboring rulers will take advantage of these
complications
  - Sun Tzu






From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 10:22:28 2004
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 10:21:36 -0400
To: dan <dan@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Why gear?

At 07:56 AM 5/21/04 -0400, dan wrote:

>Mike continues to claim that he never sees Hardley riders wearing beanies,
>yet everyone else has.  I see them every weekend, can spot them at speed
>too.

I continue to claim it because it's true.  I don't see them, despite riding
with Harley riders frequently.  Maybe I just ride with a better class of
Harley rider than the ones in your area?

As for the novelty helmets, those would be acceptable in states without
helmet laws (like New Hampshire, where someone saw them for sale?), but I
don't think they are legal substitutes for proper helmets in states that do
have helmet laws.  My understanding is that helmet laws require
DOT-approved helmets, not just something covering your head, and not just
something with a sticker saying "DOT" on it either.  If there are crowds of
Harley riders wearing non-DOT-approved helmets where you ride, and this is
bothering you so much, maybe you should ask your local law enforcement
people to enforce the laws?


-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 10:22:30 2004
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 10:22:36 -0400
To: Stephen Miller <freecat@XXXXXX>, DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Why gear?

At 08:19 AM 5/21/04 -0400, Stephen Miller wrote:

>Beemer, though.  That'd be a sight, a reflective and waterproof armored
>BMW-spec textile suit with sticker-covered beanie (THE BITCH FELL
>OFF!!) to top it off.

I liked "Which dwarf are you?" better...


-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 10:23:30 2004
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 10:23:25 -0400
To: Tom <tdeboeser@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Why gear?

At 08:28 AM 5/21/04 -0400, Tom wrote:

>3 here, if only for the 3 page posts.

If you are reading challenged, just hit delete.  I won't mind a bit.


-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 10:28:55 2004
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 10:28:02 -0400
From: Tom <tdeboeser@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Why gear?

Mike Bartman wrote:

>At 08:28 AM 5/21/04 -0400, Tom wrote:
>
>
>
>>3 here, if only for the 3 page posts.
>>
>>
>If you are reading challenged, just hit delete.  I won't mind a bit.
>
>

I do.  Because 8 months ago it was evident you really have nothing to
say.  I feel for anyone who gets stuck speaking to you.

Tom de

>
>-- Mike B.
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 10:31:48 2004
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 10:30:56 -0400
From: Tom <tdeboeser@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Why gear?

Mike Bartman wrote:

>At 07:56 AM 5/21/04 -0400, dan wrote:
>
>
>I continue to claim it because it's true.  I don't see them, despite riding
>with Harley riders frequently.
>
>
So Mike has been back to riding now for less than year, has less than
10k miles on his bike, AND most of all because he doesn't see it, it
doesn't exist!?!

Amazing.

>-- Mike B.
>
>
Tom de

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 10:32:12 2004
From: "John White" <kokopellian@XXXXXX>
To: freecat@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Wife Hits Husband on Motorcycle: Helmet Saves His Life
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 10:32:04 -0400

Speed bike...  I think the writer was thinking Return of the Jedi "Speeder".
  Yeah, that's it.


>From: Stephen Miller <freecat@XXXXXX>
>To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
>Subject: Re: Wife Hits Husband on Motorcycle: Helmet Saves His Life
>Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 10:18:47 -0400
>
>1/3 of a Speed Triple??
>
>
>On May 21, 2004, at 9:48 AM, Perry Coleman wrote:
>
>>"speed bike"? What the heck is a speed bike?
>>
>>Perry
>>
>>>From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
>>>To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
>>>Subject: Wife Hits Husband on Motorcycle: Helmet Saves His Life
>>>Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 05:45:06 -0700 (PDT)
>>>
>>>From the Edmonton Sun, May 18th/2004:
>>>
>>>
>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>---------
>>>Wife plows into hubby
>>>
>>>A motorcyclist sustained a fractured ankle last night
>>>after his speed
>>>bike was
>>>hit from behind by a pickup truck driven by his wife,
>>>police say.
>>[snip]
>>
>>_________________________________________________________________
>>Stop worrying about overloading your inbox - get MSN Hotmail Extra
>>Storage! http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/
>>
>


From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 10:33:43 2004
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 10:33:35 -0400
To: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Subject: First cicada strike today - gear

Hit the bugger going 20 or so.  Took it in the shoulder.  Barely felt it
hit at that speed, but the cicada exploded across my jacket.  I found his
head on my collar.  He spread out in a 9" mass of wings and goop.  That is
why I wear gear.

The other day I passed a pot hole crew and a chunk of hot asphalt flew into
my face shield.  It left a scar where the near boiling oil met the
plastics.  Has I been wearing a 1/2 helmet, that would have been quite painful.


___________________________________________
     Mike Troutman
         http://www.troutman.org/vfr
         1997 Honda VFR 750
            AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/
            NMA http://www.motorists.org

One who knows the enemy and knows himself
will not be in danger in a hundred battles.
One who does not know the enemy but knows himself
will sometimes win, sometimes lose.
One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself
will be in danger in every battle.
  - Sun Tzu

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 10:44:08 2004
Subject: RE: Report the idiot cage driver
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 10:43:55 -0400
From: "Verde, Robert" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>
To: "Julian Halton" <julian@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Conversely, the current paradigm that allows a cage driver to break any traffic law on the books with no repercussion, *unless* a LEO actually witnesses the law-breaking, is a fair system?  How many times have we all wished to have the private cell number of the local constabulary to direct their attention to a flagrant scofflaw, someone endangering themselves and others with reckless driving behaviour, yet getting away scot-free because no officer was in sight?

In some states, you can issue a citizen's citation to any driver, but you have to be positive of the driver's identity.  Provide the police with a plate number, and they will send you a form to fill out, and then send the offender a nice ticket in the mail.  Which ticket, unlike this watered-down version, actually results in fines and points against the driver's license.

I think this sort of self-policing mechanism is a step in the right direction, and may help to alleviate flaws in the current system of traffic law enforcement, which is a purely arbitrary system designed to collect the maximum revenue with the minumum fuss for the LEO community.  IM(ever so)HO, of course!

Robert


-----Original Message-----
From: Julian Halton [mailto:julian@XXXXXX]
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 10:25 AM
To: Troutman; dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: Report the idiot cage driver


This is far worse...it encourages informers, creates an atmosphere of
suspicion and there is no recourse to such complaints.  Sure he may have
flipped you the bird but that could have been AFTER you drifted into his
lane and almost knackered him.  Too Stalinesque for my liking.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 10:57:29 2004
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 10:49:33 -0400
To: "Verde, Robert" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>,
   "John White" <kokopellian@XXXXXX>, <markkitchell@XXXXXX>,
   <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Wife Hits Husband on Motorcycle: Helmet Saves His Life

At 09:14 AM 5/21/04 -0400, Verde, Robert wrote:
>Hey, she is a motoryclist too, according to the story.  So much for the
theory that if you ride you are more aware of other riders, even when
driving a cage...  LOL

She apparently wasn't even aware of the emergency vehicle...or maybe she
just skipped the part in the driver's manual about slowing down and pulling
to the side of the road when one passes?

-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 10:58:35 2004
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 10:54:47 -0400
To: "John White" <kokopellian@XXXXXX>, freecat@XXXXXX,
   dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Wife Hits Husband on Motorcycle: Helmet Saves His Life

More likely thinking of those race machines some people like to ride on the
public road ways.  Non-moto people's attitude about sport bikes leaking out
there?  With some SUVs coming out a hybrids, the leftists will need a new
scapegoat to all hate...could be sport bikes next?

-- Mike B.

At 10:32 AM 5/21/04 -0400, John White wrote:
>Speed bike...  I think the writer was thinking Return of the Jedi "Speeder".
>  Yeah, that's it.
>
>
>>From: Stephen Miller <freecat@XXXXXX>
>>To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
>>Subject: Re: Wife Hits Husband on Motorcycle: Helmet Saves His Life
>>Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 10:18:47 -0400
>>
>>1/3 of a Speed Triple??
>>
>>
>>On May 21, 2004, at 9:48 AM, Perry Coleman wrote:
>>
>>>"speed bike"? What the heck is a speed bike?
>>>
>>>Perry
>>>
>>>>From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
>>>>To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
>>>>Subject: Wife Hits Husband on Motorcycle: Helmet Saves His Life
>>>>Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 05:45:06 -0700 (PDT)
>>>>
>>>>From the Edmonton Sun, May 18th/2004:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>---------
>>>>Wife plows into hubby
>>>>
>>>>A motorcyclist sustained a fractured ankle last night
>>>>after his speed
>>>>bike was
>>>>hit from behind by a pickup truck driven by his wife,
>>>>police say.
>>>[snip]
>>>
>>>_________________________________________________________________
>>>Stop worrying about overloading your inbox - get MSN Hotmail Extra
>>>Storage! http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/
>>>
>>
>
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 10:59:26 2004
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 10:59:20 -0400
To: Tom <tdeboeser@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Why gear?

At 10:30 AM 5/21/04 -0400, Tom wrote:
>Mike Bartman wrote:
>>At 07:56 AM 5/21/04 -0400, dan wrote:

>>I continue to claim it because it's true.  I don't see them, despite riding
>>with Harley riders frequently.
>>
>So Mike has been back to riding now for less than year, has less than
>10k miles on his bike, AND most of all because he doesn't see it, it
>doesn't exist!?!
>
>Amazing.

No, I'm no longer amazed at the lack of reading comprehension found on
lists like this one.  Where did I say it doesn't exist?  Please provide
quotes.

What I said was that I haven't seen it.  If you can't tell the difference
between those two ideas, I'm really happy that you are filtering my posts.
I just wish you'd ignore them when others quote them too.  If you are only
going to half-listen, perhaps you should fully butt out?

-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 11:01:34 2004
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 11:03:28 -0400
To: "Verde, Robert" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>,
   "Julian Halton" <julian@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Report the idiot cage driver

At 10:43 AM 5/21/04 -0400, Verde, Robert wrote:
>How many times have we all wished to have the private cell number of the
local constabulary to direct their attention to a flagrant scofflaw,
someone endangering themselves and others with reckless driving behaviour,
yet getting away scot-free because no officer was in sight?

In Virginia, #77 on your cell phone, like the signs say.  I used it last
month to report a flaming car on the side of I-95 south of Springfield.
Works like a champ.

>I think this sort of self-policing mechanism is a step in the right
direction, and may help to alleviate flaws in the current system of traffic
law enforcement, which is a purely arbitrary system designed to collect the
maximum revenue with the minumum fuss for the LEO community.  IM(ever
so)HO, of course!

I think we should go to a Rodney King style system.  Everyone mounts video
cameras on their vehicles.  When they see an infraction, they upload the
video record to the police, who have now "seen the infraction", and can
then issue a ticket.  Only flagrant and frequent law breakers would have a
problem with such a system, right?

-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 11:03:47 2004
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 11:03:31 -0400
To: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Report the idiot cage driver

At 11:03 AM 5/21/2004, Mike Bartman wrote:
>In Virginia, #77 on your cell phone, like the signs say.  I used it last
>month to report a flaming car on the side of I-95 south of Springfield.
>Works like a champ.

Not so well in a full face helmet.



___________________________________________
     Mike Troutman
         http://www.troutman.org/vfr
         1997 Honda VFR 750
            AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/
            NMA http://www.motorists.org

One who knows the enemy and knows himself
will not be in danger in a hundred battles.
One who does not know the enemy but knows himself
will sometimes win, sometimes lose.
One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself
will be in danger in every battle.
  - Sun Tzu

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 11:05:01 2004
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 11:04:59 -0400
To: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Subject: Mini bikes causing Boston uproar

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2004/05/21/mini_motorbikes_make_many_roar/

Pocket bikes are cool.


___________________________________________
     Mike Troutman
         http://www.troutman.org/vfr
         1997 Honda VFR 750
            AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/
            NMA http://www.motorists.org

One who knows the enemy and knows himself
will not be in danger in a hundred battles.
One who does not know the enemy but knows himself
will sometimes win, sometimes lose.
One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself
will be in danger in every battle.
  - Sun Tzu

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 11:06:09 2004
Subject: RE: Wife Hits Husband on Motorcycle: Helmet Saves His Life
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 11:05:59 -0400
From: "Verde, Robert" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Also points out the dangerous complacency that can occur when a rider thinks a cage driver will behave in a certain way.  Always drive like everyone on the road is a homicidal maniac out to kill you, even when it's your significant other in the car is question.  Hmmm...  Wonder if there had been any domestic friction immediately prior to the trip in question?

Could have been just a momentary lapse in attention, of course.  (Exactly whose attention lapse is open to debate...)  Not too long ago in Oregon, a teenage driver bent down to retrieve some dropped cassette tapes, and ran car over a family of four riding bicycles on the side of the road.  All cyclists died at the scene.

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Bartman [mailto:omni@XXXXXX]
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 10:50 AM
To: Verde, Robert; John White; markkitchell@XXXXXX;
dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: Wife Hits Husband on Motorcycle: Helmet Saves His Life

She apparently wasn't even aware of the emergency vehicle...or maybe she
just skipped the part in the driver's manual about slowing down and pulling
to the side of the road when one passes?

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 11:14:58 2004
From: "Perry Coleman" <perrycoleman@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Why gear?
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 11:02:50 -0400

I have to admit that I haven't been so close to putting someone on ignore
since "Squeakers"...

_________________________________________________________________
Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee)B®
Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 11:17:08 2004
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 11:19:02 -0400
To: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>, "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Report the idiot cage driver

At 11:03 AM 5/21/04 -0400, Troutman wrote:
>At 11:03 AM 5/21/2004, Mike Bartman wrote:
>>In Virginia, #77 on your cell phone, like the signs say.  I used it last
>>month to report a flaming car on the side of I-95 south of Springfield.
>>Works like a champ.
>
>Not so well in a full face helmet.

Well, there ya go!  A reason not to wear them!  ;-)

Actually, there are some intercom systems that will interface with a cell
phone...I think Evil Overlord Carl has one and has used it while riding up
to New York, according to his posted story about the trip.  Carl?

-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 11:19:14 2004
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 11:19:12 -0400
To: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Report the idiot cage driver

At 11:19 AM 5/21/2004, Mike Bartman wrote:
> >Not so well in a full face helmet.
>
>Well, there ya go!  A reason not to wear them!  ;-)
>
>Actually, there are some intercom systems that will interface with a cell
>phone...I think Evil Overlord Carl has one and has used it while riding up
>to New York, according to his posted story about the trip.  Carl?

I have no interest whatsoever in talking on my cell phone while I
ride.  The closest I get to distraction besides looking at women walking by
is using headphones on long rides.



___________________________________________
     Mike Troutman
         http://www.troutman.org/vfr
         1997 Honda VFR 750
            AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/
            NMA http://www.motorists.org

One who knows the enemy and knows himself
will not be in danger in a hundred battles.
One who does not know the enemy but knows himself
will sometimes win, sometimes lose.
One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself
will be in danger in every battle.
  - Sun Tzu

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 11:28:29 2004
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 11:24:40 -0400
From: Skip <skip@XXXXXX>
To: skip@XXXXXX
Subject: new rider embarassing moment

I noticed a new bike in the parking lot next to mine.  a piss yellow brand-y new
Suzuki gsxr 600.  it's a sporty looking machine -- all low and sleek and
slightly angular...  very sexy in that "race bike" way.  I've been keeping my
eye on it, hoping to meet the owner, maybe go for a ride with him, show him some
of my favorite local roads.
I heard it warming up as I was getting ready to go to work, so I grab my helmet
and jacket and head out the door.  He's sitting on it, helmet on but no other
gear.  he eases the clutch out and it stalls.  starts it back up, idles for a
moment, eases the clutch out, bluh-bluh, it stalls again.  I decide that this is
a good opportunity to go meet him, so I head over.  I say hi, and compliment his
bike.  He seems flustered ... that slightly overwhelmed, slightly nervous look
that I know I had on my first bike....  that, "I know what I'm supposed to do,
but this is doing it on a much bigger scale".  so I ask him if this is his first
bike.  there's a pause, and he says, "First time for this kind of bike", which I
take to mean that he's ridden a dirt bike a few dozen times, and has decided to
step up.  He's making a big first step with his bike choice.  the salesman
definately saw him comin'.

side note...   I know that the sales guy is just trying to feed his family, and
that he has no legal duty to sell this guy a --reasonable-- first bike.  but I
look at riders as sort of family -- I'd go out at two in the morning in the
pouring rain to help a fellow biker, and this saleman has done this guy a
disservice...  one that I hope this brand new rider lives through.

Since this guy is a virgin, I decide to start with my standard "gear
suggestion".  I ask about his jacket, gloves, and pants, and he says that he has
a jacket.  I do my "graphic demonstration" and say, you really ought to wear it
--every-- time you ride because at 50 mph (drag hand across ground) that
**hurts**.  there's a pause, and he says, "yeah, you know, you're right" and
goes and gets his jacket.  I say that we ought to go ride sometime and he says
that he's got to do some more practicing for his license test next week.  I
mention the MSF and he says that it's booked through the end of this year.
Typical.

Side note, there is --almost-- enough demand for the MSF BRC that it could be
run as a full time school.  I tell him to stick to the parking lot, first gear,
and tight turns.  work on smooth.  he nods, I say good bye and walk off.  he
starts it up again, and stalls it again.

The Sabre fires up instantly (thanks Jack!) , and I'm kind of watching him as I
put on my helmet and gloves.  he stalls it again, turns the key off, puts the
side stand down, and gets off.  he goes around to the other side, glances both
directions, I pretend I'm not looking.  He kneels down and takes off the lock
and chain and sets them off to the side.    :~)

--skip

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 11:28:56 2004
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 11:26:35 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
From: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
Reply-To: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
To: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>,
   "Verde,Robert" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>,
   Julian Halton <julian@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: State Police star/pound codes, was RE: Report the idiot cage driver




-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>

In Virginia, #77 on your cell phone, like the signs say.  I used it last
month to report a flaming car on the side of I-95 south of Springfield.
Works like a champ.

---------------------

Somewhat comprehensive of state police calling codes here.

http://www.nextel.com/services/digitalcellular/star_pound_dialing.shtml

In Murlan it's #77 too.  Or #SP (state police) if you prefer.

(Note to Nextel employee DC-Cyclers.  This list is four years old)



Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org
95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour]

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 11:35:04 2004
Reply-To: "Patrick Carter" <dpc2@XXXXXX>
From: "Patrick Carter" <dpc2@XXXXXX>
To: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>, "Troutman" <mike@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Mini bikes causing Boston uproar
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 11:34:57 -0400

I have those exact mini bikes for sale if anyone wants them.  I have them in
Red, Blue, Black, Silver, and Yellow.  Let me know if your interested.  $850
brand new.

Thanks
Pat
----- Original Message -----
From: "Troutman" <mike@XXXXXX>
To: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 11:04 AM
Subject: Mini bikes causing Boston uproar


>
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2004/05/21/mini_motorbikes_make_many_roar/
>
> Pocket bikes are cool.
>
>
> ___________________________________________
>      Mike Troutman
>          http://www.troutman.org/vfr
>          1997 Honda VFR 750
>             AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/
>             NMA http://www.motorists.org
>
> One who knows the enemy and knows himself
> will not be in danger in a hundred battles.
> One who does not know the enemy but knows himself
> will sometimes win, sometimes lose.
> One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself
> will be in danger in every battle.
>   - Sun Tzu
>
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 11:35:33 2004
Subject: RE: Mini bikes causing Boston uproar
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 11:35:24 -0400
From: "Verde, Robert" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>
To: "Troutman" <mike@XXXXXX>, "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Very!

Of course, the loon that was riding his new pocket bike around my parking lot at 2AM last weekend, complete with aftermarket (loud) muffler, is on my short list...  ;-)

I wasn't impressed with the article's spin, though.  Driver almost hits a kid on one of these, and his response is to try to restrict them?  How about legislation that makes it a crime to fail to yeild to one, giving pocket bikes the protection afforded to bicyclists?  Another loser in the conflict with the dominant US car culture, which only kills 800 people a day.  New York City, a city that should be in favor of efforts to reduce the number of cars on the street, has banned them.

Prices have sure dropped since I last looked at these, and the performance is quite a bit higher than I expected!  52-64 MPH?  On something you can pick up and carry under your arm?  Expect to see them featured in new Hollywood epics targeted at the elusive teen/young adult market.

http://www.speed-sports.com/Pocket_Bikes/

Robert



-----Original Message-----
From: Troutman [mailto:mike@XXXXXX]
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 11:05 AM
To: DC Cycles
Subject: Mini bikes causing Boston uproar


http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2004/05/21/mini_motorbikes_make_many_roar/

Pocket bikes are cool.


From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 11:41:29 2004
Subject: RE: State Police star/pound codes, was RE: Report the idiot cage driver
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 11:41:20 -0400
From: "Verde, Robert" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>
To: "Paul Wilson" <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

I'll look into it, Paul.

;-)

Robert


-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Wilson [mailto:viffermaniac@XXXXXX]
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 11:27 AM
To: Mike Bartman; Verde, Robert; Julian Halton; dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: State Police star/pound codes, was RE: Report the idiot cage
driver


Somewhat comprehensive of state police calling codes here.

http://www.nextel.com/services/digitalcellular/star_pound_dialing.shtml

In Murlan it's #77 too.  Or #SP (state police) if you prefer.

(Note to Nextel employee DC-Cyclers.  This list is four years old)



Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org
95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour]

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 11:46:18 2004
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 11:45:49 -0400
To: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>, "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Report the idiot cage driver

At 11:19 AM 5/21/04 -0400, Troutman wrote:

>I have no interest whatsoever in talking on my cell phone while I
>ride.  The closest I get to distraction besides looking at women walking by
>is using headphones on long rides.

You could pull off to call.  That would also let the "problem" driver get
farther away from you too.

I agree about the distraction thing.  I'm not using headphones at all yet,
even (especially?) on highway rides.

-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 11:46:43 2004
From: "Shigeru Honda" <shonda3@XXXXXX>
To: "dc-cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: new rider embarassing moment
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 11:43:52 -0400

LoL, at least he didn't drop his brand new bike.


---------------------
Shigeru Honda
98 SuperHawk (Street)
99 750 SS (Track #881)
02 MZ Skorpion Tour (Commuter)
91 CR80 (new toy)


----- Original Message -----
From: "Skip" <skip@XXXXXX>
To: <skip@XXXXXX>
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 11:24 AM
Subject: new rider embarassing moment


> I noticed a new bike in the parking lot next to mine.  a piss yellow
brand-y new
> Suzuki gsxr 600.  it's a sporty looking machine -- all low and sleek and
> slightly angular...  very sexy in that "race bike" way.  I've been keeping
my
> eye on it, hoping to meet the owner, maybe go for a ride with him, show
him some
> of my favorite local roads.
> I heard it warming up as I was getting ready to go to work, so I grab my
helmet
> and jacket and head out the door.  He's sitting on it, helmet on but no
other
> gear.  he eases the clutch out and it stalls.  starts it back up, idles
for a
> moment, eases the clutch out, bluh-bluh, it stalls again.  I decide that
this is
> a good opportunity to go meet him, so I head over.  I say hi, and
compliment his
> bike.  He seems flustered ... that slightly overwhelmed, slightly nervous
look
> that I know I had on my first bike....  that, "I know what I'm supposed to
do,
> but this is doing it on a much bigger scale".  so I ask him if this is his
first
> bike.  there's a pause, and he says, "First time for this kind of bike",
which I
> take to mean that he's ridden a dirt bike a few dozen times, and has
decided to
> step up.  He's making a big first step with his bike choice.  the salesman
> definately saw him comin'.
>
> side note...   I know that the sales guy is just trying to feed his
family, and
> that he has no legal duty to sell this guy a --reasonable-- first bike.
but I
> look at riders as sort of family -- I'd go out at two in the morning in
the
> pouring rain to help a fellow biker, and this saleman has done this guy a
> disservice...  one that I hope this brand new rider lives through.
>
> Since this guy is a virgin, I decide to start with my standard "gear
> suggestion".  I ask about his jacket, gloves, and pants, and he says that
he has
> a jacket.  I do my "graphic demonstration" and say, you really ought to
wear it
> --every-- time you ride because at 50 mph (drag hand across ground) that
> **hurts**.  there's a pause, and he says, "yeah, you know, you're right"
and
> goes and gets his jacket.  I say that we ought to go ride sometime and he
says
> that he's got to do some more practicing for his license test next week.
I
> mention the MSF and he says that it's booked through the end of this year.
> Typical.
>
> Side note, there is --almost-- enough demand for the MSF BRC that it could
be
> run as a full time school.  I tell him to stick to the parking lot, first
gear,
> and tight turns.  work on smooth.  he nods, I say good bye and walk off.
he
> starts it up again, and stalls it again.
>
> The Sabre fires up instantly (thanks Jack!) , and I'm kind of watching him
as I
> put on my helmet and gloves.  he stalls it again, turns the key off, puts
the
> side stand down, and gets off.  he goes around to the other side, glances
both
> directions, I pretend I'm not looking.  He kneels down and takes off the
lock
> and chain and sets them off to the side.    :~)
>
> --skip
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 11:57:56 2004
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 11:59:49 -0400
To: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Mini bikes causing Boston uproar

At 11:35 AM 5/21/04 -0400, Verde, Robert wrote:

>Prices have sure dropped since I last looked at these, and the performance
is quite a bit higher than I expected!  52-64 MPH?  On something you can
pick up and carry under your arm?

There was a short discussion of these at Battley's yesterday morning.  I
suggested that they might make good bike "tenders".  When you have to take
your bike in for service, you just strap one to the luggage rack, and head
for the shop.  Drop off the bike, and ride the "tender" home or to work.
No need to arrange a ride, take a cab or whatever!


-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 13:22:49 2004
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 13:19:16 -0400
From: Skip <skip@XXXXXX>
CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Why gear?

PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote:
>
> In a message dated 5/20/2004 8:08:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> freecat@XXXXXX writes:
>
> > As for airbags, it's well known that they're mixed bags,
>
> No one is ever going to convince me that having an explosive device (and it
> is literally a bomb) pointed at your chest is a good idea.

I was turning wrenches at a dealership and we had an airbag that had to be sent
back, so we had to discharge it.  Of course we did exactly the opposite of the
directions and laid it face down on the ground.  they weigh 5-10 pounds, and it
blew the thing at least 50-60 feet in the air.

it was cool as hell.


that said, they are effective safety devices that work very well if you're in
the range of sizes that they are designed for.  If you're not, they are a
hazard.

--skip

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 15:47:49 2004
From: <adamme1@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: new rider embarassing moment
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 15:47:40 -0400

>
> From: Skip <skip@XXXXXX>
> Date: 2004/05/21 Fri AM 11:24:40 EDT
> To: skip@XXXXXX
> Subject: new rider embarassing moment
>

<snip>

>I say that we ought to go ride sometime and he says
> that he's got to do some more practicing for his license test next week.

...wait a minute...he's riding WITHOUT A FUCKING LICENSE????





From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 16:01:49 2004
From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 16:01:39 EDT
Subject: Re: (Why gear?) Air bags
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

In a message dated 5/21/2004 1:23:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, skip@XXXXXX
writes:

> that said, they are effective safety devices that work very well if you're
in
>  the range of sizes that they are designed for.  If you're not, they are a
>  hazard.

And they are as useless as tits on a chicken if you are already wearing a
seat belt. The damn things started killing people and instead of admitting they
were a bad idea from the word go "they" just "fixed" them.
The damn things are dangerous and should _never_ have been put into cars,
everyone who is killed by them has been murdered by the un-elected beurocrocy
that mandated them.

But I am not bitter...........


John.
PenguinBiker@XXXXXX

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 16:04:44 2004
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 16:04:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Daniel H. Brown" <brown@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Why gear?

On Fri, 21 May 2004, Tom Gimer wrote:
> ah, how special.
>
> here's an idea, windbag: let's poll the list and see if
> anyone is tired of (i) your holier than thou attitude, (ii)
> your
> 300-mile-slab-to-delaware-makes-me-an-experienced-rider
> stories, or (iii) your sidestep anyone who actually calls
> my bullshit tactics.

Personally, I'm tired of you counting in lowercase roman numerals.


--
Dan Brown
brown@XXXXXX

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 16:07:16 2004
From: bernescut@XXXXXX
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: Why gear?
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 16:06:45 -0400

Me II
Cedric Bernescut
2000 CBR600F4
Annandale, VA

-

Personally, I'm tired of you counting in lowercase roman numerals.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 16:35:54 2004
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 16:32:13 -0400
From: Skip <skip@XXXXXX>
To: bernescut@XXXXXX
CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Why gear?

I hVIII it II.

--skip, mcmlxix

bernescut@XXXXXX wrote:
>
> Me II
> Cedric Bernescut
> 2000 CBR600F4
> Annandale, VA
>
> -
>
> Personally, I'm tired of you counting in lowercase roman numerals.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 16:41:08 2004
Subject: RE: Why gear?
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 16:40:57 -0400
From: "Verde, Robert" <Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>
To: "Skip" <skip@XXXXXX>, <bernescut@XXXXXX>
Cc: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Only posers use upper-case...

=8->

-----Original Message-----
From: Skip [mailto:skip@XXXXXX]
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 4:32 PM
To: bernescut@XXXXXX
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Why gear?


I hVIII it II.

--skip, mcmlxix

bernescut@XXXXXX wrote:
>
> Me II
> Cedric Bernescut
> 2000 CBR600F4
> Annandale, VA
>
> -
>
> Personally, I'm tired of you counting in lowercase roman numerals.


From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 16:43:57 2004
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 16:34:06 -0400
From: Skip <skip@XXXXXX>
To: adamme1@XXXXXX
CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: new rider embarassing moment

in the parking lot...  hopefully not out on the open road...  though I rode like
that for more than a year...

--skip

adamme1@XXXXXX wrote:
>
> >
> > From: Skip <skip@XXXXXX>
> > Date: 2004/05/21 Fri AM 11:24:40 EDT
> > To: skip@XXXXXX
> > Subject: new rider embarassing moment
> >
>
> <snip>
>
> >I say that we ought to go ride sometime and he says
> > that he's got to do some more practicing for his license test next week.
>
> ...wait a minute...he's riding WITHOUT A FUCKING LICENSE????
>
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 17:13:55 2004
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 14:13:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Report the idiot cage driver
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX


--- Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX> wrote:
> At 11:03 AM 5/21/04 -0400, Troutman wrote:
> >At 11:03 AM 5/21/2004, Mike Bartman wrote:
> >>In Virginia, #77 on your cell phone, like the signs say.  I used it
> last
> >>month to report a flaming car on the side of I-95 south of
> Springfield.
> >>Works like a champ.
> >
> >Not so well in a full face helmet.
>
> Well, there ya go!  A reason not to wear them!  ;-)
>
> Actually, there are some intercom systems that will interface with a
> cell
> phone...I think Evil Overlord Carl has one and has used it while riding
> up
> to New York, according to his posted story about the trip.  Carl?

Sort of. It wasn't the trip to NY but the classes in Reston. I used the
phone to chat with Rita, she'd call me. It worked pretty well but I
couldn't dial out and the voice dial didn't work. I had the phone on
auto-answer. I suspect, but never tried, if I had created a new entry and
spoken Rita's name through the intercom, it might have worked. You could
do the same thing with the cops number if it works. I'll have to try it.

It's supposed to work with the two way systems. We have them but I haven't
tried them on the bikes. They work great on the move out here though. Once
Rita got out of range, she'd know she had to slow back down.

>
> -- Mike B.

Carl


=====
02 Harley FXSTI
95 Suzuki GSXR 750W
76 Honda Chopper (in progress)




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year
http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 18:00:10 2004
From: Lister Lynch <lister@XXXXXX>
To: "'Skip '" <skip@XXXXXX>, "'adamme1@XXXXXX '" <adamme1@XXXXXX>
Cc: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX '" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: new rider embarassing moment
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 18:00:22 -0400

 When you grow up in the sticks, you know more people who learned to ride
without a license than not.  We all did get licenses eventually though.

City folk are usually more learned however...

Mike
toys, lots of toys


-----Original Message-----
From: Skip
To: adamme1@XXXXXX
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Sent: 5/21/2004 4:34 PM
Subject: Re: new rider embarassing moment

in the parking lot...  hopefully not out on the open road...  though I
rode like
that for more than a year...

--skip

adamme1@XXXXXX wrote:
>
> >
> > From: Skip <skip@XXXXXX>
> > Date: 2004/05/21 Fri AM 11:24:40 EDT
> > To: skip@XXXXXX
> > Subject: new rider embarassing moment
> >
>
> <snip>
>
> >I say that we ought to go ride sometime and he says
> > that he's got to do some more practicing for his license test next
week.
>
> ...wait a minute...he's riding WITHOUT A FUCKING LICENSE????
>
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 18:52:09 2004
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 15:52:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Why gear?
To: "Daniel H. Brown" <brown@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX

--- "Daniel H. Brown" <brown@XXXXXX> wrote:
> On Fri, 21 May 2004, Tom Gimer wrote:
> > ah, how special.
> >
> > here's an idea, windbag: let's poll the list and see if
> > anyone is tired of (i) your holier than thou attitude,
> (ii)
> > your
> > 300-mile-slab-to-delaware-makes-me-an-experienced-rider
> > stories, or (iii) your sidestep anyone who actually
> calls
> > my bullshit tactics.
>
> Personally, I'm tired of you counting in lowercase roman
> numerals.

my apologies.


--
tg




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year
http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat May 22 13:53:47 2004
From: "Rob Sharp" <rob@XXXXXX>
To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: (Why gear?) Air bags
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 01:18:06 -0400

Sell it on Ebay :)

Just pretend you stole it out of someone elses car.

Rob

On Fri, 21 May 2004 16:01:39 EDT, PenguinBiker wrote
> In a message dated 5/21/2004 1:23:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> skip@XXXXXX writes:
>
> > that said, they are effective safety devices that work very well if you're
> in
> >  the range of sizes that they are designed for.  If you're not, they are a
> >  hazard.
>
> And they are as useless as tits on a chicken if you are already
> wearing a seat belt. The damn things started killing people and
> instead of admitting they were a bad idea from the word go "they"
> just "fixed" them. The damn things are dangerous and should _never_
> have been put into cars, everyone who is killed by them has been
> murdered by the un-elected beurocrocy that mandated them.
>
> But I am not bitter...........
>
> John.
> PenguinBiker@XXXXXX


--
Rob Sharp
1996 Honda VFR 750
2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme
SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA
Network Security Engineer

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat May 22 13:53:47 2004
From: "Rob Sharp" <rob@XXXXXX>
To: <adamme1@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: new rider embarassing moment
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 00:56:33 -0400

On Fri, 21 May 2004 15:47:40 -0400, adamme1 wrote
> >
> > From: Skip <skip@XXXXXX>
> > Date: 2004/05/21 Fri AM 11:24:40 EDT
> > To: skip@XXXXXX
> > Subject: new rider embarassing moment
> >
>
> <snip>
>
> >I say that we ought to go ride sometime and he says
> > that he's got to do some more practicing for his license test next week.
>
> ...wait a minute...he's riding WITHOUT A FUCKING LICENSE????

Yeah once you have that magical document you know how to ride/drive right :)

For the most part when I started and had a permit I rode with groups.  I
eventually got pulled over when I was one my way to the meeting spot at a
traffic stop (registrations ect).  Cops issued me a ticket and made me call my
friends to come pick me up....  Got out of the ticket, guy I rode with was the
ADA :-D


Rob

--
Rob Sharp
1996 Honda VFR 750
2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme
SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA
Network Security Engineer

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat May 22 19:44:41 2004
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 16:44:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: Weather Forecast for tomorrow: NO RAIN so come to Bike Night!
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

http://www.geocities.com/bikenight/

See you there!

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat May 22 21:25:39 2004
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 18:25:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>
Subject: E-Bay Scams
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

Yea yea, I know.

I was poking around on e-bay looking at the GSXR 1000/1300's and found
several entries that seemed too good to be true. All from accounts that
were activated today, all from Canada and all with "Buy it now's" running
a couple thousand less than what I've been seeing in the paper and at the
dealers. Some said they needed the money for various things and had to
sell at a sacrifice. Funny thing is, they had 5 or 6 bikes/4x4's for sale.

Anyway, one guy had one. 2002 Hayabusa for a BIN of 4500. He had a high
positive response code (over 700). I sent him an e-mail asking where he
was located. If he was localish or local to people I know, I could check
it out for myself or have someone check it for me. I got a reply. The
bike's in LA, a couple of day ride from here.

However I checked the headers from his e-mail and found his IP address was
82.79.16.132 which, according to ripe.net is based in Romania. *sniff*
*sniff*, smells like dog shit.

I said that it was too far away and thanks all the same. I submitted the
e-mail to e-bay for investigation.

Carl

=====
02 Harley FXSTI
95 Suzuki GSXR 750W
76 Honda Chopper (in progress)




__________________________________
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Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year
http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat May 22 21:42:22 2004
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 18:42:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>
Subject: E-mail sent to e-bay
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

Here's the body of the "complaint"? I sent to e-bay:

Message: Auction: 2479758672

I used the button to send the seller a question regarding the location of
the motorcycle. The e-mail I received indicated he was in LA, however the
IP address noted in the Received line shows Kirt logged in from a Romania
assigned IP address.

Since there have been several suspicious auctions in the Suzuki GSX-R and
Suzuki Hayabusa sections, I notified the user that I declined making a
bid.

This may be a legitimate auction but there are enough factors that point
to a possible hi-jacked account.

Carl Schelin

=====
02 Harley FXSTI
95 Suzuki GSXR 750W
76 Honda Chopper (in progress)




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year
http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat May 22 21:44:28 2004
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 21:44:20 -0400
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Subject: 2002 F4i Silver/Black $6500 OBO

Brother in law is making last ditch effort at selling his F4.  1400 miles,
perfect condition, totally stock.  I have it this week and will be
commuting on it Manassas to Reston if anyone is interested.

Email off list of course.

Very different bike from the VFR obviously.  Tons of brakes, quick turning,
weighs nothing and is fun to ride.  We'll see how it commutes.


_____________________________________
   Mike Troutman
        mike@XXXXXX
        http://www.troutman.org/vfr

         '97 Honda VFR 750
         AMA - http://www.amadirectlink.com/
         NMA - http://www.motorists.org

         "I'd rather die while I'm living, then live while I'm dead."
                 - Jimmy Buffett

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat May 22 22:19:02 2004
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 21:01:00 -0400
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Subject: 2002 F4i Silver/Black $6500 OBO

Brother in law is making last ditch effort at selling his F4.  1400 miles,
perfect condition, totally stock.  I have it this week and will be
commuting on it Manassas to Reston if anyone is interested.

Email off list of course.

Very different bike from the VFR obviously.  Tons of brakes, quick turning,
weighs nothing and is fun to ride.  We'll see how it commutes.


_____________________________________
   Mike Troutman
        mike@XXXXXX
        http://www.troutman.org/vfr

         '97 Honda VFR 750
         AMA - http://www.amadirectlink.com/
         NMA - http://www.motorists.org

         "I'd rather die while I'm living, then live while I'm dead."
                 - Jimmy Buffett

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat May 22 22:53:29 2004
From: "Rob Sharp" <rob@XXXXXX>
To: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: E-Bay Scams
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 22:55:16 -0400

People get their ebay and paypal accounts hacked.   Then the hackers use it to
rip people off.  Ever see those emails from paypal asking you to go to their
site and confirm your info.  Usually they are fake sites and they use the
account info they trick out of you and good feedback to rip people off.
Sucks huh

Rob

On Sat, 22 May 2004 18:25:16 -0700 (PDT), Carl Schelin wrote
> Yea yea, I know.
>
> I was poking around on e-bay looking at the GSXR 1000/1300's and
> found several entries that seemed too good to be true. All from
> accounts that were activated today, all from Canada and all with
> "Buy it now's" running a couple thousand less than what I've been
> seeing in the paper and at the dealers. Some said they needed the
> money for various things and had to sell at a sacrifice. Funny thing
> is, they had 5 or 6 bikes/4x4's for sale.
>
> Anyway, one guy had one. 2002 Hayabusa for a BIN of 4500. He had a high
> positive response code (over 700). I sent him an e-mail asking where
> he was located. If he was localish or local to people I know, I
> could check it out for myself or have someone check it for me. I got
> a reply. The bike's in LA, a couple of day ride from here.
>
> However I checked the headers from his e-mail and found his IP
> address was
> 82.79.16.132 which, according to ripe.net is based in Romania.
> *sniff* *sniff*, smells like dog shit.
>
> I said that it was too far away and thanks all the same. I submitted
> the e-mail to e-bay for investigation.
>
> Carl
>
> =====
> 02 Harley FXSTI
> 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W
> 76 Honda Chopper (in progress)
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year
> http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer


--
Rob Sharp
1996 Honda VFR 750
2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme
SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA
Network Security Engineer

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat May 22 23:25:57 2004
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 20:25:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: E-Bay Scams
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

Yea, that was what I was figuring. I don't click on any URL's in an
unsolicited e-mail and if I get one that seem legit, I'll go directly to
the site and navigate that way.

The last e-mail I sent, I requested an address but I notice that the sale
is down (error in listing) and he's not responding any more :-)

Carl

--- Rob Sharp <rob@XXXXXX> wrote:
> People get their ebay and paypal accounts hacked.   Then the hackers use
> it to
> rip people off.  Ever see those emails from paypal asking you to go to
> their
> site and confirm your info.  Usually they are fake sites and they use
> the
> account info they trick out of you and good feedback to rip people off.
>
> Sucks huh
>
> Rob
>
> On Sat, 22 May 2004 18:25:16 -0700 (PDT), Carl Schelin wrote
> > Yea yea, I know.
> >
> > I was poking around on e-bay looking at the GSXR 1000/1300's and
> > found several entries that seemed too good to be true. All from
> > accounts that were activated today, all from Canada and all with
> > "Buy it now's" running a couple thousand less than what I've been
> > seeing in the paper and at the dealers. Some said they needed the
> > money for various things and had to sell at a sacrifice. Funny thing
> > is, they had 5 or 6 bikes/4x4's for sale.
> >
> > Anyway, one guy had one. 2002 Hayabusa for a BIN of 4500. He had a
> high
> > positive response code (over 700). I sent him an e-mail asking where
> > he was located. If he was localish or local to people I know, I
> > could check it out for myself or have someone check it for me. I got
> > a reply. The bike's in LA, a couple of day ride from here.
> >
> > However I checked the headers from his e-mail and found his IP
> > address was
> > 82.79.16.132 which, according to ripe.net is based in Romania.
> > *sniff* *sniff*, smells like dog shit.
> >
> > I said that it was too far away and thanks all the same. I submitted
> > the e-mail to e-bay for investigation.
> >
> > Carl
> >
> > =====
> > 02 Harley FXSTI
> > 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W
> > 76 Honda Chopper (in progress)
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year
> > http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer
>
>
> --
> Rob Sharp
> 1996 Honda VFR 750
> 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme
> SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA
> Network Security Engineer
>


=====
02 Harley FXSTI
95 Suzuki GSXR 750W
76 Honda Chopper (in progress)




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year
http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat May 22 23:50:50 2004
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 20:50:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: Adam Reinhardt <ajreinhardt@XXXXXX>
Subject: Starting problem - CBR
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

  I recently took my 1989 CBR out of storage, put gas
in it, and it fired up and ran for about 15 secs
before it died.  It would not start again.  About 1hr
later I tried again and bike started up again, revved
fine, but again the motor quickly died and would not
start again.  The third time, after a couple more
hours, the bike started immediately and settled into a
normal idle.  When I went to put on my helmet in order
to ride around the block, the idle dropped and the
motor died again.

I'm thinking that this is a fuel delivery problem,
since there is obviously spark enough for the bike to
start and rev freely.  Since the bike revs freely, I'm
thinking its not air starvation (it has a Uni filter
that I recently cleaned)  It's not the fuel filter,
because I just replaced it and gas comes through it
fine.  Could it be the fuel pump?  Out of synch
carbs?Any other thoughts?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Adam




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year
http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat May 22 23:59:47 2004
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 23:57:55 -0400
Subject: Pocket bikes
From: Bob McKeithen <bmckeithen@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX


I saw one cruising down Constitution Ave last week. In that venue I
think I would be a bit concerned about visibility.

Bob

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun May 23 00:34:55 2004
From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 00:34:42 EDT
Subject: Smoke
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

From another list I am on. I have read it before but it is good and I expect
not everyone on this list has seen it.
John.

Very moto related, this is!!!  This is making the rounds so I thought I'd
share it with those who might remember the Prince of Darkness.

"A Treatise on the Importance of Smoke" by Joseph Lucas

All electrical components and wiring harnesses depend on proper circuit
functioning, which is the transmission of charged ions by retention of the visible
spectral manifestation known as "smoke". Smoke is the thing that makes
electrical circuits work. Don't be fooled by scientists and engineers talking about
excited electrons and the like. Smoke is the key to all things electrical.

We know this to be true because every time one lets the smoke out of an
electrical circuit, it stops working. This can be verified repeatedly through
empirical testing. For example, if one places a large copper bar across the
terminals of a battery, prodigious quantities of smoke are liberated and the battery
shortly ceases to function. In addition, if one observes smoke escaping from
an electrical component such as a Lucas voltage regulator, it will also be
observed that the component no longer functions.

The logic is elementary and inescapable! The function of the wiring harness
is to conduct the smoke from one device to another. When the wiring harness
springs a leak and lets all the smoke out of the system, nothing works right
afterward.

Starter motors were considered unsuitable for British motorcycles for some
time largely because they regularly released large quantities of smoke from the
electrical system.

It has been reported that Lucas electrical components are possibly more prone
to electrical leakage than their Bosch, Japanese or American counterparts.
Experts point out that this is because Lucas is British, and all things British
leak. British engines leak oil, British shock absorbers, hydraulic forks, and
disk brake systems leak fluid, British tires leak air and British Intelligence
leaks national defense secrets.

Therefore, it follows that British electrical systems must leak smoke. Once
again, the logic is clear and inescapable.

Sometimes you may miss the component releasing the smoke that makes your
electrical system function correctly, but if you sniff around you can often find
the faulty component by the undeniable and telltale smoke smell. Sometimes this
is a better indicator than standard electrical tests performed with a
volt-ohm meter.

In conclusion, the basic concept of transmission of electrical energy in the
form of smoke provides a clear and logical explanation of the mysteries of
electrical components and why they fail.

"A gentleman does not motor about after dark."
- Joeseph Lucas, 1842 - 1903



From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun May 23 00:45:34 2004
From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 00:45:12 EDT
Subject: Re: Starting problem - CBR
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

In a message dated 5/22/2004 11:50:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
ajreinhardt@XXXXXX writes:

> Could it be the fuel pump?

No. Not at all likely, even if you had a fuel pump. And if I remember
correctly you do not have one.

>  Out of synch carbs?

No. No way in hell.

>  Any other thoughts?

FIRST! Did you drain the carburetors? That is the first thing you should do
after a bike has been standing. If you have, or the problem does not go away
after you do drain them then most likely the idle jets are plugged. It may be
starting because you are getting fuel into the system from what the accelerator
pump squirts in while you are trying to start the bike.

Or not. Try draining the carburetors to see if that helps. And keep the list
posted, someone will get you going...




John Walters (Long John)
PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Up near DC

1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European
1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles
1976, Honda CR250M  Motowhat racer

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun May 23 01:03:20 2004
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 01:04:59 -0400
To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Smoke

At 12:34 AM 5/23/04 EDT, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote:
>>From another list I am on. I have read it before but it is good and I
expect
>not everyone on this list has seen it.
>John.
>
>Very moto related, this is!!!  This is making the rounds so I thought I'd
>share it with those who might remember the Prince of Darkness.
>
>"A Treatise on the Importance of Smoke" by Joseph Lucas

Are you going to follow up with the one about dark-emiting diodes and their
use in emergency lighting?  Or maybe sound-emiting diodes (run a large
enough current through almost any diode and it will emit sound.  Usually
only once though...)


The ERC course was fun.  Challenging, but fun.  10 riders in the class.  8
passed (I was one of them).  1 got a perfect score on the final test (it
wasn't me).

The figure 8 in a box was probably the hardest exercise.  Eventually got it
perfected in practice, but on the final I blew it a little (ran out of the
box by a foot on the second turn).  The swerve was the easiest...aced that
one on the final too.  The "peanut" was tough, but luckily wasn't on the
final test.  Need more parking lot practice...


-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun May 23 06:52:12 2004
From: Stephen Miller <freecat@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: E-Bay Scams
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 06:52:33 -0400
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

When I see a bike like that at a price like that I assume it is either
wrecked, stolen, or a scam.

On May 22, 2004, at 9:25 PM, Carl Schelin wrote:

> Yea yea, I know.
>
> I was poking around on e-bay looking at the GSXR 1000/1300's and found
> several entries that seemed too good to be true. All from accounts that
> were activated today, all from Canada and all with "Buy it now's"
> running
> a couple thousand less than what I've been seeing in the paper and at
> the
> dealers. Some said they needed the money for various things and had to
> sell at a sacrifice. Funny thing is, they had 5 or 6 bikes/4x4's for
> sale.
>
> Anyway, one guy had one. 2002 Hayabusa for a BIN of 4500. He had a high
> positive response code (over 700). I sent him an e-mail asking where he
> was located. If he was localish or local to people I know, I could
> check
> it out for myself or have someone check it for me. I got a reply. The
> bike's in LA, a couple of day ride from here.
>
> However I checked the headers from his e-mail and found his IP address
> was
> 82.79.16.132 which, according to ripe.net is based in Romania. *sniff*
> *sniff*, smells like dog shit.
>
> I said that it was too far away and thanks all the same. I submitted
> the
> e-mail to e-bay for investigation.
>
> Carl
>
> =====
> 02 Harley FXSTI
> 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W
> 76 Honda Chopper (in progress)
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year
> http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer
>


From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun May 23 06:56:44 2004
From: Stephen Miller <freecat@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Starting problem - CBR
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 06:57:09 -0400
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Depending on how long it's been sitting I'd pull the carbs off and
clean out the jets, adjust the floats, etc.


On May 23, 2004, at 12:45 AM, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote:

> In a message dated 5/22/2004 11:50:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> ajreinhardt@XXXXXX writes:
>
>> Could it be the fuel pump?
>
> No. Not at all likely, even if you had a fuel pump. And if I remember
> correctly you do not have one.
>
>>  Out of synch carbs?
>
> No. No way in hell.
>
>>  Any other thoughts?
>
> FIRST! Did you drain the carburetors? That is the first thing you
> should do
> after a bike has been standing. If you have, or the problem does not
> go away
> after you do drain them then most likely the idle jets are plugged. It
> may be
> starting because you are getting fuel into the system from what the
> accelerator
> pump squirts in while you are trying to start the bike.
>
> Or not. Try draining the carburetors to see if that helps. And keep
> the list
> posted, someone will get you going...
>
>
>
>
> John Walters (Long John)
> PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
> Up near DC
>
> 1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European
> 1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles
> 1976, Honda CR250M  Motowhat racer
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun May 23 08:06:22 2004
From: "Michael Jordan" <mjordan812@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Pocket bikes
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 08:06:10 -0400

> I saw one cruising down Constitution Ave last week. In that
> venue I think I would be a bit concerned about visibility.

No need to be concerned, Bob, they're almost invisible.

Michael J.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun May 23 08:55:01 2004
From: "Paul Wilson" <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
To: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Thornton Gap = 45 mph limit
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 08:55:11 -0400

I came 211 yesterday after doing some backwood exploration.

Brand spanking 45 mph speed limit signs, from the base of the grade at the
Park HQ, all the way to Sperryville.  Looks like the crashes and fatalities
have finally made their mark on the authorities.


From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun May 23 09:45:19 2004
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 06:44:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Steven Burrow <s_burrow@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Smoke
To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX

British refrigerators use Lucas parts and that is why
they like warm beer.
Steve
'01 YZF




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year
http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun May 23 11:23:11 2004
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 10:23:11 -0500
To: Michael Jordan <mjordan812@XXXXXX>,
   thomas Jordan <thomasajordan@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Sean Jordan <eternity23@XXXXXX>
Subject: Ducati Desmosedici Streetbike?!?!

Only $50,000 Euros.

http://venus.13x.com/roadracingworld/scripts/NewsInsert.asp?insert=9349

- Sean Jordan

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun May 23 12:38:52 2004
From: "Michael Jordan" <mjordan812@XXXXXX>
To: "'DC Cycles'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Thornton Gap = 45 mph limit
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 12:38:39 -0400

> Brand spanking 45 mph speed limit signs, from the base of the
> grade at the Park HQ, all the way to Sperryville.

The practical result is that when someone wipes out at =>65, they will be
able to hit 'em with a Reckless instead of a simple Speeding, =>10 over.

Then again, simple minds tend to seek simple remedies to complex problems.
And then wonder why it didn't work.

Michael J.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun May 23 12:41:07 2004
From: "Michael Jordan" <mjordan812@XXXXXX>
To: "'DC Cycles'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Weather Forecast for tomorrow: NO RAIN so come to Bike Night!
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 12:40:55 -0400

> http://www.geocities.com/bikenight/

I'll take rain over cicadas any day :-P

Michael J.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun May 23 14:27:07 2004
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 11:26:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Adam Reinhardt <ajreinhardt@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Starting problem - CBR
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX


>
> > Could it be the fuel pump?
>
> No. Not at all likely, even if you had a fuel pump.
> And if I remember
> correctly you do not have one.

Well, there definitely is a fuel pump on the 1989
Honda CBR600F ... I suppose I could disconnect it from
the carbs and crank the iginition to see if it's
pumping out fuel.


> FIRST! Did you drain the carburetors? That is the
> first thing you should do
> after a bike has been standing. If you have, or the
> problem does not go away
> after you do drain them then most likely the idle
> jets are plugged. It may be
> starting because you are getting fuel into the
> system from what the accelerator
> pump squirts in while you are trying to start the
> bike.

I did drain the carbs before the bike sat (bike sat
for about 2 months without being ridden)  and I looked
at the float bowls at that point and they were very
clean - no evidence at all of varnish.  Your idea that
it could be a clogged pilot jet is very possible as I
didn't take out of the individual jets and clean them.
 I'll keep checking today.


Thanks,

Adam




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year
http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun May 23 14:29:29 2004
From: "Paul Wilson" <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
To: "Michael Jordan" <mjordan812@XXXXXX>,
   "'DC Cycles'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Weather Forecast for tomorrow: NO RAIN so come to Bike Night!
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 14:29:38 -0400

Rain, bleh.  That'd wash the mud off the KLR, diminishing the poser points
therein should I ride it to Bike Night.

Paul in DC -- www.wilsonline.org
95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Jordan" <mjordan812@XXXXXX>
To: "'DC Cycles'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 12:40 PM
Subject: RE: Weather Forecast for tomorrow: NO RAIN so come to Bike Night!


> > http://www.geocities.com/bikenight/
>
> I'll take rain over cicadas any day :-P
>
> Michael J.
>
>


From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun May 23 14:34:30 2004
From: "Paul Wilson" <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
To: "Rob Sharp" <rob@XXXXXX>, "Carl Schelin" <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>,
   <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: E-Bay Scams
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 14:34:39 -0400

Think about it for a second.  Why would eBay or Paypal need *you* to
"verify" your passwords and account info, etc.  Don't they already have this
information?

Anyway, they re-direct you to a URL that is not eBay or Paypal.  You don't
have to be an internet wizard to figure this out;  the fraud is pretty
transparent.  I have reported some of these scams to Paypal and I get a
canned email back saying that yes, they are fraudulent sites, thank you for
writing, blah, blah, blah.

Paul in DC -- www.wilsonline.org
95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Sharp" <rob@XXXXXX>


> People get their ebay and paypal accounts hacked.   Then the hackers use
it to
> rip people off.  Ever see those emails from paypal asking you to go to
their
> site and confirm your info.  Usually they are fake sites and they use the
> account info they trick out of you and good feedback to rip people off.
> Sucks huh
>
> Rob
>
> On Sat, 22 May 2004 18:25:16 -0700 (PDT), Carl Schelin wrote
> > Yea yea, I know.
> >
> > I was poking around on e-bay looking at the GSXR 1000/1300's and
> > found several entries that seemed too good to be true. All from
> > accounts that were activated today, all from Canada and all with
> > "Buy it now's" running a couple thousand less than what I've been
> > seeing in the paper and at the dealers. Some said they needed the
> > money for various things and had to sell at a sacrifice. Funny thing
> > is, they had 5 or 6 bikes/4x4's for sale.
> >
> > Anyway, one guy had one. 2002 Hayabusa for a BIN of 4500. He had a high
> > positive response code (over 700). I sent him an e-mail asking where
> > he was located. If he was localish or local to people I know, I
> > could check it out for myself or have someone check it for me. I got
> > a reply. The bike's in LA, a couple of day ride from here.
> >
> > However I checked the headers from his e-mail and found his IP
> > address was
> > 82.79.16.132 which, according to ripe.net is based in Romania.
> > *sniff* *sniff*, smells like dog shit.
> >
> > I said that it was too far away and thanks all the same. I submitted
> > the e-mail to e-bay for investigation.
> >
> > Carl
> >
> > =====
> > 02 Harley FXSTI
> > 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W
> > 76 Honda Chopper (in progress)
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70/year
> > http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer
>
>
> --
> Rob Sharp
> 1996 Honda VFR 750
> 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme
> SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA
> Network Security Engineer
>
>


From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun May 23 14:42:41 2004
From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 14:42:25 EDT
Subject: Re: Starting problem - CBR
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

In a message dated 5/23/2004 2:27:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
ajreinhardt@XXXXXX writes:

>
>  Well, there definitely is a fuel pump on the 1989
>  Honda CBR600F .

Indeed there is, my bad.

No need to disconnect anything. open the drains on your carbs and spin the
engine (or just flip the engine cut off switch on and off repeatedly) if fuel
pours out the pump works. If it just drizzles probably not. (Have you checked
the fuse?)




John Walters (Long John)
PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Up near DC

1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European
1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles
1976, Honda CR250M  Motowhat racer

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun May 23 16:41:44 2004
From: "Sean Steele" <sean@XXXXXX>
To: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 16:41:14 -0400
Subject: Stripped oil drain pan bolt

So I went to change oil for the first time this afternoon on my Seca.
The oil drain pan bolt head is mangled pretty badly -- I can't get a
purchase on it.

Any ideas for getting it out? I'm assuming (optomistically) that the
threads aren't stripped as well.

Now off to ratbike night.

-Sean
War-shington, DC
'92 Seca II (Beater-tour)

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun May 23 17:37:05 2004
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 17:39:14 -0400
To: "Sean Steele" <sean@XXXXXX>, "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Stripped oil drain pan bolt

At 04:41 PM 5/23/04 -0400, Sean Steele wrote:
>So I went to change oil for the first time this afternoon on my Seca.
>The oil drain pan bolt head is mangled pretty badly -- I can't get a
>purchase on it.
>
>Any ideas for getting it out? I'm assuming (optomistically) that the
>threads aren't stripped as well.

What kind of bolt is it?  Allen?  Hex?  Something else?

Without knowing the type, if you can't grab it with whatever is supposed to
be used on it, or Vise Grips or some other general purpose grabber, the
only other options that come to mind are the "Dremmel a new slot for your
screwdriver" trick (works best on small fasteners), and the "chisel a notch
and hammer it around" trick (works best on big nuts, and with an air
hammer).

Other than that, you'd need special tools, like that "Grabbit" thing that
Sears sells, or a drill and a left-handed tap to make a threaded hole in
the bolt that you can put a left-handed bolt into and turn it out.  Which
might be the best option would depend on the size of the thing, what it's
made of, and how tightly it's stuck in place.

Any of these are going to require replacement of the plug, but you probably
are figuring on doing that anyway.  ;-)

-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun May 23 17:37:06 2004
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 17:28:51 -0400
To: "Michael Jordan" <mjordan812@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Pocket bikes and Cruz'n for Cancer Ride

At 08:06 AM 5/23/04 -0400, Michael Jordan wrote:
>> I saw one cruising down Constitution Ave last week. In that
>> venue I think I would be a bit concerned about visibility.
>
>No need to be concerned, Bob, they're almost invisible.

Sounds like the ideal terrorist assault vehicle then...


The first ever "Cruz'n For Cancer" ride was today.  Not sure of the
official participation total, but I estimated somewhere between 300-400
bikes based on a head count at the end of the ride while folks were eating
(and the band was playing).  The Montgomery County Police did an
*excellent* job escorting the ride, so there were no stops due to signs or
lights, and no problems with traffic breaking up the line of bikes.

There was one accident though...a rider near the end hit the throttle when
he meant to hit the brakes at a turn and ran into a stopped truck (how do
you do that on a bike???  In a car I could understand it, they are right
next to each other, but a bike??).  Wheaton Rescue was bringing up the rear
on the ride, and rendered assistance, and the rider was airlifted to a
hospital, where he's reported in reasonable condition.

The folks who planned this did a great job.  It was well organized, ran on
schedule, had a nice pleasant route with a lot of variety (about 65 miles
total), a decent band and good food.  What more would you want?

The only comment for next year that I heard was to eliminate some of the
smaller roads from the route.  The more narrow, winding roads tended to
result in slowdowns, and even one or two short halts, and the line went
from a faster, wider road and switched from staggered to single file.  Not
a problem with 20 bikes, but with 300-400, it wasn't ideal.

With a big turnout for the first event, and with that as the worst
complaint, I'd say it was a big success!  I'd do it again...and I think
they are planning to do so next year, but no dates have been announced that
I know of.

-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun May 23 17:47:59 2004
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 14:47:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ryan Santoso <santosor2001@XXXXXX>
Subject: Tickets by Park Rangers...
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX


Hi,

I got a ticket on the Blue Ridge parkway this weekend
in the Virgina/North Carolina border of the Parkway.
Does anyone know if they will carry over to your
state?

I was busted for 66 on a 45...ouch!

Ryan






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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun May 23 18:50:47 2004
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 15:50:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: E-Bay Scams
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX


--- Stephen Miller <freecat@XXXXXX> wrote:
> When I see a bike like that at a price like that I assume it is either
> wrecked, stolen, or a scam.

Which was why I asked for the location. At least if I can see it, I can be
assured of the bike and owner existing. Since he doesn't want to give me
his address (he travels a lot :-), I told him that I wasn't interested. He
said he pulled the auction because he had a bunch of buyers so I told him
to sell to one of them since I wanted to see the bike first.

Carl


=====
02 Harley FXSTI
95 Suzuki GSXR 750W
76 Honda Chopper (in progress)




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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 06:57:28 2004
From: Stephen Miller <freecat@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Stripped oil drain pan bolt
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 06:57:48 -0400
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Get an appropriately-sized *six point* box-end wrench (let me guess,
it's either a 14mm or 17mm) and a hammer, and tap that box end over the
bolt.  The head was soft enough to mangle, it's probably soft enough to
re-conform.  Remember, six-points.

On May 23, 2004, at 4:41 PM, Sean Steele wrote:

> So I went to change oil for the first time this afternoon on my Seca.
> The oil drain pan bolt head is mangled pretty badly -- I can't get a
> purchase on it.
>
> Any ideas for getting it out? I'm assuming (optomistically) that the
> threads aren't stripped as well.
>
> Now off to ratbike night.
>
> -Sean
> War-shington, DC
> '92 Seca II (Beater-tour)
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 09:13:16 2004
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 06:12:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brian Ray <bdaleray@XXXXXX>
Subject: To Louisville & Back
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Thought ya'll might be interested in a report from my
weekend's trip...

*****************

To Louisville & Back

I)B’d had plans for a while to meet a friend.
Originally it was to be halfway between us, in
Charleston, WV.  Then she was going to head here.  It
turned out that she had too much on her plate to take
a 3-day weekend.  Well, if Mohammed won)B’t come to the
mountain, the mountain will have to go to Mohammed.
Looks like I was headed to Louisville, KY, which is
about 600 miles each way..

I had bought the bike with the intention of making
trips, so time to put the intentions to the test, and
see if I could handle longer trips.

The Bike:  A 2003 Suzuki Bandit 1200S.  Green.  All of
1400 miles on the odometer when I started.   The only
major changes were a set of handlebars from a 1st
generation Bandit, and handlebar risers, both of which
moved the bars up & back into a more comfortable
position.  I)B’d gotten a Suzuki gel seat, but didn’t
use it.  After trying it, it positioned me a bit more
forward, and didn)B’t let me move around as much.  So I
left it at home, and used the stock seat.  I got a
throttle rocker at the last minute.  Luggage included
a Held tankbag and Tourmaster Cortech saddlebags &
tailbag.  I didn)B’t really need all of that room for
stuff, but since I had them I took the opportunity to
pack extra gear.  I)B’m glad I did…..

The Gear:  Nolan N100 helmet, Joe Rocket (JR)
Revolution jacket & pants, JR Phoenix mesh jacket,
Fieldsheer Titanium Air Mesh pants, Teknic Violator
gloves, JR Phoenix Gloves, padded bike shorts.  I)B’m
glad I had the mesh stuff with me )B– It warmed up
enough on both legs of the trip, that I would have
baked in the regular gear.  Of course, the mesh stuff
would have been chilly in the mornings.  The jacket
has a liner, but I need to work something out for the
pants.  Perhaps a set of wind pants worn over the
mesh.  We)B’ll see.

The trip there:  I left Alexandria, VA at 6:00 am
Friday morning, May 21, 2004.  Hit the Beltway (I-495)
to I-66.  At 6 am on a Friday, traffic was still
fairly light.  Took I-66 West to I-81, and I-81 South
to I-64.  Fairly standard interstate, no real
interest.  Again, fairly light traffic.  I-64 West
between 81 and exit 156 was nice for interstate.
Light traffic, and rolling through the hills.  Nice
scenery.  At exit 156, I hopped on US 60.  US 60 was a
really nice alternate, and took me through many
smaller WV towns, with lots of open areas in between.
It had some nice twisties through the mountains.  I
took US 60 Up to Charleston WV, then hopped back on
I-64 which I look on to Louisville.  This portion of
I-64 was typical superslab, fairly straight, poor
pavement, some road construction, and decent traffic.
I arrived in Louisville at 5:00, and spent the last
half hour stuck in traffic, working my way to Ash)B’s
house at 5:30.  Considering that I stopped for a real
breakfast, a fastfood lunch, gas stops every 150
miles, and several other rest stops, not a bad trip.

The trip back:  I left Louisville at 7 am Sunday
morning.  I took I-64 back to Charleston, WV.  It was
the same road I took Friday, with the same comments.
Typical interstate.  At Charleston, I took I-79 North.
 I-79 through the mountains was fairly nice, with
light traffic, good road condition, and interesting
scenery.  At exit 99 I hopped on US 33 East to Seneca
Rocks.  The first part of 33 has been )B“improved” to a
divided highway, but had good pavement condition,
light traffic, and decent scenery through the
mountains.  After Elkins, it is mostly 2-lane, but
also in the process of being improved, so had a
section of divided lanes.  At Seneca Rocks I took US
55 North.  This followed the South Branch of the
Potomac River, and was nice to drive through.  I saw
tons of bikers on 33 & 55 between Elkins and I-81.
Mainly Harleys, Goldwings, and some sportbikes.  55 is
also being improved in sections, which was nice
because by that time I was tired, and liked being able
to make time.  I followed 55 to I-81, but was on I-81
only for a couple of miles before hitting I-66 east to
DC.  I-66 on Sunday afternoons usually has fairly
heavy traffic of folks returning to the city.  This
Sunday was no different.  It moved fairly well, but I
hopped on the Fairfax Co. Parkway when I had a chance,
and rode that on home.  I got home at 5:45 Sunday
night.

Stats:  1189 total miles, 31.1 gallons of gas, 38.2
mpg average.  This seems low )B– hopefully it will get
better as the bike gets broken in.

Comments:  I *really* need a better seat for cruising.
 I would be fine for a while after each stop, but
would eventually start riding on alternate butt-cheeks
to try to keep putting miles on.  The throttle-rocker
was a great addition, and made things fairly nice.
Despite a regular dosing of Advil & aspirin every 4
hours, my neck/shoulder was hurting by the end of the
trip Sunday.

Conclusion:  Can)B’t wait to go on more of the same.
Slightly shorter trips/more time would let me do less
slab, and make the trip more interesting.  I need to
work the bugs out of my gear selection.  BETTER SEAT!
And music )B– I need music for the slab sections.  Time
to get some decent ear buds for my mp3 player.







__________________________________
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Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year
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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 09:48:09 2004
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 09:47:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: dan <dan@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: FS: 2000 VFR 800

Selling the VFR, here are the specs:

2000 Honda VFR800
-Yellow
-11,500 miles
-Micron High Mount (still have stock can)
-PCII with Micron Map
-BT010/BT020 front/rear tires, about 1k miles on them
-Kimpex Grip Heaters
-Remote Mount Whistler Radar Detector,stealth mounted
-Regular Oil changes with Mobil 1 Red Top
-Rear fender chop mod
-Fresh brake and clutch fluids
-always garaged

I'm the second owner, I bought it in July of 2002 from the first owner, it
had 1800 miles on it and was gently broken in with the intial 600 mile
service by the dealer.  It has never been down, plastics are in perfect
condition save for a few rock chips on the lower front fairing.  No paint
fade or scratches.  Starts and runs like new.  I put the PCII and Micron
on late last summer, they gave it a nice boost in power.  Averaging about
220 miles between fillups, ~48mpg.  I'll be sad to see it go, but the
garage is getting too full. Asking price $5750.

Hucksters from 3rd world countries wishing to play their check cashing
scheme should save their keystrokes.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 09:49:42 2004
From: Stephen Miller <freecat@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: E-Bay Scams
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 09:50:08 -0400
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Even if the guy let me see the bike and ride it, I'd be suspicious of
some sort of scam. The price is so far out of line with what the market
tells us.


On May 23, 2004, at 6:50 PM, Carl Schelin wrote:

>
> --- Stephen Miller <freecat@XXXXXX> wrote:
>> When I see a bike like that at a price like that I assume it is either
>> wrecked, stolen, or a scam.
>
> Which was why I asked for the location. At least if I can see it, I
> can be
> assured of the bike and owner existing. Since he doesn't want to give
> me
> his address (he travels a lot :-), I told him that I wasn't
> interested. He
> said he pulled the auction because he had a bunch of buyers so I told
> him
> to sell to one of them since I wanted to see the bike first.
>
> Carl
>
>
> =====
> 02 Harley FXSTI
> 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W
> 76 Honda Chopper (in progress)
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year
> http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer
>


From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 10:36:17 2004
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 07:36:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brian Ray <bdaleray@XXXXXX>
Subject: Bike Night?
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

So, how was it?  Anyone go?  I was tempted to stop by
on my way back from Louisville, but my ass was too
sore and I was looking forward to seeing my
girlfriend...

Brian




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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 10:39:34 2004
From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 10:39:22 EDT
Subject: Re: new rider embarassing moment
To: adamme1@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX

In a message dated 5/21/2004 3:51:30 PM Eastern  Daylight Time,
adamme1@XXXXXX writes:
>
> From: Skip  <skip@XXXXXX>
> Date: 2004/05/21 Fri AM 11:24:40 EDT
> To:  skip@XXXXXX
> Subject: new rider embarassing  moment
>

<snip>

>I say that we ought to go ride  sometime and he says
> that he's got to do some more practicing for his  license test next week.

...wait a minute...he's riding WITHOUT A  FUCKING LICENSE????
--------------------------------
Probably has his learners permit if he's practicing to go take the  test.
Scooter

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 10:44:03 2004
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 07:43:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: Bike Night
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Thanks for all that attended Bike Night and a big boo
for those that did not!   If you can write the emails
why can't you ride the bike?

Bike Night was great considering it was the first
event.  We had about 80 bikes at one time or another.
Jorge at Carpool was nice enough to reserve the entire
parking lot for us.  The only downside to that is that
the bikes were spreadout and it did not appear as
crowded.

We had quite a few people from Sportbike.net and .com
show up.  They need to realize that this is not some
Barnes and Noble shit where you just sit and hang.
Bike Night is at a bar for a reason: COME INSIDE and
mingle (and buy something).

Great to see those from DC Cycles who showed up.  My
posts on Craiglist.org also brought many new faces in.
 A great variety of bikes, many cruisers this time.

Next Bike Night TBA!








__________________________________
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Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year
http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 11:07:20 2004
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: lisagoddard@XXXXXX
Subject: wife plows in to hubby
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 15:07:15 GMT

Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 05:45:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: Wife Hits Husband on Motorcycle: Helmet Saves His Life
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

>From the Edmonton Sun, May 18th/2004:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wife plows into hubby

A motorcyclist sustained a fractured ankle last night
after his speed bike was hit from behind by a pickup truck driven by his wife,
police say.

I knew a couple who had a similar one.  He was in front on a Valkyrie, she was
behind him on a small female friendly cruiser.  He signaled and slowed to turn
in to a roadside fruit stand as discussed at their previous stop.  She didn't
notice and plowed in to him, flipping a Valkyrie and sending him in to the
hospital with multiple fractures.  If memory serves Valkyries are enourmous,
heavy bikes with a low center of gravity.

The weird part was that they have been long term significant others, for 15+
years.  Due to separate insurance policies not wanting to pay their limits one
of them had to sue the other one to get sufficient funds out of the insurance
companies to cover medical bills.  I don't remember the details but it was the
land of strange legal loopholes.


For the record: No, I have only hit Jay on purpose playing stoplight games such
as tapping his wheel for fun, usually shortly followed by cutting his ignition
and perhaps grabbing his bike keys!

I usually prefer to crash his bikes all by myself and don't need his presence
on the bike to accomplish that.

Lisa Goddard
www.motorcycleleatherexchange.com
'95 VFR
'97 GSXR 600





---------------------------------------------
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http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/


From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 11:08:47 2004
From: "Rob Sharp" <rob@XXXXXX>
To: "DC-Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Diesel Motorcycle and Gas Milage.
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 23:34:58 -0400

Picked this up on the VFR list.  Don't you have a KL 650 Paul ?  It looks
pretty sweet.  120 mph aint to shabby either.    My VFR seems to get about 45
mpg(sensible throttle control), what  do some of you other guys get on your bikes?

http://www.motorcyclecity.com/Military-bikes/M1030Diesel-Kawasaki.htm
--
Rob Sharp
1996 Honda VFR 750
2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme
SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA
Network Security Engineer

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 11:30:35 2004
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 11:30:24 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
From: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
Reply-To: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
To: Rob Sharp <rob@XXXXXX>, DC-Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Diesel Motorcycle and Gas Milage.



-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Sharp <rob@XXXXXX>


Picked this up on the VFR list.  Don't you have a KLR 650 Paul ?  It looks
pretty sweet.  120 mph aint to shabby either.    My VFR seems to get about 45
mpg(sensible throttle control), what  do some of you other guys get on your bikes?

http://www.motorcyclecity.com/Military-bikes/M1030Diesel-Kawasaki.htm

-----------

Yup, I'm still waiting on the civilian version of this beast to come out.  120 miles and a 6-gallon tank.  You do the math.  Only about four VFRs at bike night.  All four 90+ generations.  Mine stayed home;  I rode the Kawitractor.

Kawi gets ~50 mpg;  VFR 35-40 mpg depending on how frisky I am with the throttle.







Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org
95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour]

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 11:37:31 2004
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 08:37:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: E-Bay Scams
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX


--- Stephen Miller <freecat@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Even if the guy let me see the bike and ride it, I'd be suspicious of
> some sort of scam. The price is so far out of line with what the market
> tells us.
>

That's what I mean though. There were a lot of positives and two possibly
suspicious items.

The suspicious ones were of course the price and that the shots were taken
at a dealership. No bike dealership would sell that low unless there was a
problem.

But the guy had a real high positive response rate (over 700). That's why
I asked to see it. It mostly looks ok but there's something out of whack.
Maybe if I see it and the dealership, I'll understand.

Of course, once the e-mails started coming in, I was sure it was a scam.
Of the 6 or so e-mails, 5 were posted from a Romania IP address. The
english in each message got progressively worse. And he pushed the "you
can return it in 15 days" rather than coming to see it.

Since I reported it to e-bay, I figured I shouldn't let him know I was on
to him so they can recover the account. Yea, probably not but still.

Carl


=====
02 Harley FXSTI
95 Suzuki GSXR 750W
76 Honda Chopper (in progress)




__________________________________
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Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year
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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 11:43:50 2004
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 11:06:14 -0400
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Bike Night

At 10:43 AM 5/24/2004, Mark Kitchell wrote:
>Thanks for all that attended Bike Night and a big boo
>for those that did not!   If you can write the emails
>why can't you ride the bike?

Speaking for myself out in suburbia, I have no interest in riding into
Arlington for a bike night.  Plan one out towards Centreville / Manassas /
Reston and I'll be there.  Perhaps we should start a NOVA cycles list.



___________________________________________
     Mike Troutman
         http://www.troutman.org/vfr
         1997 Honda VFR 750
            AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/
            NMA http://www.motorists.org

One who knows the enemy and knows himself
will not be in danger in a hundred battles.
One who does not know the enemy but knows himself
will sometimes win, sometimes lose.
One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself
will be in danger in every battle.
  - Sun Tzu

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 11:53:13 2004
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 08:53:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Bike Night
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Sorry, none of the stripmalls have reserved parking.


--- Troutman <mike@XXXXXX> wrote:
> At 10:43 AM 5/24/2004, Mark Kitchell wrote:
> >Thanks for all that attended Bike Night and a big
> boo
> >for those that did not!   If you can write the
> emails
> >why can't you ride the bike?
>
> Speaking for myself out in suburbia, I have no
> interest in riding into
> Arlington for a bike night.  Plan one out towards
> Centreville / Manassas /
> Reston and I'll be there.  Perhaps we should start a
> NOVA cycles list.
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________
>      Mike Troutman
>          http://www.troutman.org/vfr
>          1997 Honda VFR 750
>             AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/
>             NMA http://www.motorists.org
>
> One who knows the enemy and knows himself
> will not be in danger in a hundred battles.
> One who does not know the enemy but knows himself
> will sometimes win, sometimes lose.
> One who does not know the enemy and does not know
> himself
> will be in danger in every battle.
>   - Sun Tzu
>





__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year
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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 11:55:24 2004
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 08:55:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Carl Schelin <dm_gsxr@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Bike Night
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX


--- Troutman <mike@XXXXXX> wrote:
> At 10:43 AM 5/24/2004, Mark Kitchell wrote:
> >Thanks for all that attended Bike Night and a big boo
> >for those that did not!   If you can write the emails
> >why can't you ride the bike?
>
> Speaking for myself out in suburbia, I have no interest in riding into
> Arlington for a bike night.  Plan one out towards Centreville / Manassas
> /
> Reston and I'll be there.  Perhaps we should start a NOVA cycles list.

Yea, that was the problem with the book night of a couple of years ago.
They were always on a work night and in Maryland.

Sorry I couldn't make this one. Still a bit far away for me ;-)

Carl


=====
02 Harley FXSTI
95 Suzuki GSXR 750W
76 Honda Chopper (in progress)




__________________________________
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Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year
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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 12:16:43 2004
Reply-To: "Jon Strang" <jmstrang@XXXXXX>
From: "Jon Strang" <jmstrang@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Bike Night
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 12:17:27 -0400

Arlington is in NoVA.  Maybe you need a western VA (not to be confused with
West VA...western VA has slightly more teeth per capita) bike night...or did
you mean a "no va" bike night for all of those "riders" that have basket
cases for bikes.

--jon
(full disclosure: didn't attend bike night, live close to Carpool.  Drank
beer, ate pizza, rode my sofa to Couch Night).

----- "Troutman" wrote:

> <snip> Plan one out towards Centreville / Manassas /
> Reston and I'll be there.  Perhaps we should start a NOVA cycles list.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 12:30:38 2004
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 12:30:26 -0400
To: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Bike Night

NoVA suburbs list?  That just doesn't have the same ring to it.

Offered suburban bike night as advice to generate more traffic for bike
nights and rejected with sarcasm by Mr. Kitchell.  No wonder you are list
favorite Mark.  I'm sure your sparkling personality really brings people
from all over the city.

Why not try the Falls Church area again - like 50/495/Gallows?  I went to
one of those a couple of years ago.

Now rather than just email, I'm going for a ride.  If I can find any strip
mall parking, I'll eat too.

At 12:17 PM 5/24/2004, you wrote:
>Arlington is in NoVA.  Maybe you need a western VA (not to be confused with
>West VA...western VA has slightly more teeth per capita) bike night...or did
>you mean a "no va" bike night for all of those "riders" that have basket
>cases for bikes.
>
>--jon
>(full disclosure: didn't attend bike night, live close to Carpool.  Drank
>beer, ate pizza, rode my sofa to Couch Night).
>
>----- "Troutman" wrote:
>
> > <snip> Plan one out towards Centreville / Manassas /
> > Reston and I'll be there.  Perhaps we should start a NOVA cycles list.


___________________________________________
     Mike Troutman
         http://www.troutman.org/vfr
         1997 Honda VFR 750
            AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/
            NMA http://www.motorists.org

One who knows the enemy and knows himself
will not be in danger in a hundred battles.
One who does not know the enemy but knows himself
will sometimes win, sometimes lose.
One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself
will be in danger in every battle.
  - Sun Tzu

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 12:35:44 2004
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 12:35:19 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
From: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
Reply-To: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
To: Jon Strang <jmstrang@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Bike Night



-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Strang <jmstrang@XXXXXX>

Arlington is in NoVA.

------
I guess Mike doesn't recognize the retrocession of 1846.  I do get a sense some of the downstate, outstate folks would happily be rid of the part of Alexandria and all of Arlington that lay within the ten-miles-square.  ;-)

------
----- "Troutman" wrote:

> <snip> Plan one out towards Centreville / Manassas /
> Reston and I'll be there.  Perhaps we should start a NOVA cycles list.

Great, just what's needed.  More balkanization of the riding community along narrow geographical and interest-based lines.  How about the DC-within-the-original-ten-miles-square-ratbikes list?  Lordy, sure was rough riding the eight miles out to the "suburbs" for Bike Night.  :)  Agree with Mark that dedicated parking is probably a must to make these things a success.  One of the reasons I don't particularly like Grevey's.  Anyway, I don't think Mark and Chuck have the exclusive Bike Night franchise.  Organize one in Manassas and I'll prolly make the arduous 20-mile schlep.







Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org
95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour]

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 12:43:57 2004
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 12:43:12 -0400
From: Brian Roach <roach@XXXXXX>
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Bike Night

Jeezus Troutman ... wrong side of the bed this morning?

I for one am glad to see someone doing all the work to organize the
things. I've come from DE before (And would have again had the both of
us not been previously engaged this weekend) ... which is a lot longer
than the arduous journey on which you'd need to embark from 15 miles away.

- Roach


Troutman wrote:

> NoVA suburbs list?  That just doesn't have the same ring to it.
>
> Offered suburban bike night as advice to generate more traffic for bike
> nights and rejected with sarcasm by Mr. Kitchell.  No wonder you are
> list favorite Mark.  I'm sure your sparkling personality really brings
> people from all over the city.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 12:54:38 2004
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 09:54:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Bike Night
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Mike:

Feel free to plan your own Bike Night whenever and
where you wish.  Personally I think 80 bikes from
Nova, DC and MD was a great turnout for the first
event (also with rain in the forecast).  If that event
was held further out almost all the non-Virginia
riders would drop out, which would certainly result in
a much smaller overall turnout.

I fully expect 150+ bikes for our next event at
Carpool.  Not that numbers make a successful event
since nobody is getting paid, but it does make for
more fun when the parking lot is full.  Personally, it
would be a good time for me if only Chuck showed up.
Its about hanging with fellow riders and shooting
shit, nothing more, nothing less.

My personality is what it is.  I made an effort to
shake hands with everyone who we did not know.  Asked
them where they heard about the event and made sure
they felt welcomed.  I also invited people that this
list may consider unwelcome: squids , hardcore
Harley-riders, black sportbike riders who wheelie down
U street, moto messengers, rat bikers, etc.  There
will be even more at the next event if I get the
opportunity to hand our flyers at Barnes and Noble,
Rolling Thunder, Asylum, etc.

So if its hard for you to get out of your comfort
zone, please stay home.  And when we have a Bike Night
in the confines of the District, please keep your
comments about DC cops, speed cameras, welfare moms,
crack addicts, the mayor, the condition of the roads,
lack of parking, liberals, gays and scooters to
yourself.

Mark

PS: For me, the more the merrier and the more diverse
the better.  Hell is haning out with only VFR riders.
We have COTU and IDGAH for that (-:

PPS: Paul, I am joking about IDGAH!




--- Troutman <mike@XXXXXX> wrote:
> NoVA suburbs list?  That just doesn't have the same
> ring to it.
>
> Offered suburban bike night as advice to generate
> more traffic for bike
> nights and rejected with sarcasm by Mr. Kitchell.
> No wonder you are list
> favorite Mark.  I'm sure your sparkling personality
> really brings people
> from all over the city.
>
> Why not try the Falls Church area again - like
> 50/495/Gallows?  I went to
> one of those a couple of years ago.
>
> Now rather than just email, I'm going for a ride.
> If I can find any strip
> mall parking, I'll eat too.
>
> At 12:17 PM 5/24/2004, you wrote:
> >Arlington is in NoVA.  Maybe you need a western VA
> (not to be confused with
> >West VA...western VA has slightly more teeth per
> capita) bike night...or did
> >you mean a "no va" bike night for all of those
> "riders" that have basket
> >cases for bikes.
> >
> >--jon
> >(full disclosure: didn't attend bike night, live
> close to Carpool.  Drank
> >beer, ate pizza, rode my sofa to Couch Night).
> >
> >----- "Troutman" wrote:
> >
> > > <snip> Plan one out towards Centreville /
> Manassas /
> > > Reston and I'll be there.  Perhaps we should
> start a NOVA cycles list.
>
>
> ___________________________________________
>      Mike Troutman
>          http://www.troutman.org/vfr
>          1997 Honda VFR 750
>             AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/
>             NMA http://www.motorists.org
>
> One who knows the enemy and knows himself
> will not be in danger in a hundred battles.
> One who does not know the enemy but knows himself
> will sometimes win, sometimes lose.
> One who does not know the enemy and does not know
> himself
> will be in danger in every battle.
>   - Sun Tzu
>





__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year
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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 12:57:01 2004
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 09:56:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Bike Night
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

As for being a list favorite, its mildly funny to me
that some of our other 'favorites', such as Gimer and
Bartman never show up.

Bartman, FYI, I can assure you would be safe at Bike
Night.  You would have to back up your shit talking
though.


--- Troutman <mike@XXXXXX> wrote:
> NoVA suburbs list?  That just doesn't have the same
> ring to it.
>
> Offered suburban bike night as advice to generate
> more traffic for bike
> nights and rejected with sarcasm by Mr. Kitchell.
> No wonder you are list
> favorite Mark.  I'm sure your sparkling personality
> really brings people
> from all over the city.
>
> Why not try the Falls Church area again - like
> 50/495/Gallows?  I went to
> one of those a couple of years ago.
>
> Now rather than just email, I'm going for a ride.
> If I can find any strip
> mall parking, I'll eat too.
>
> At 12:17 PM 5/24/2004, you wrote:
> >Arlington is in NoVA.  Maybe you need a western VA
> (not to be confused with
> >West VA...western VA has slightly more teeth per
> capita) bike night...or did
> >you mean a "no va" bike night for all of those
> "riders" that have basket
> >cases for bikes.
> >
> >--jon
> >(full disclosure: didn't attend bike night, live
> close to Carpool.  Drank
> >beer, ate pizza, rode my sofa to Couch Night).
> >
> >----- "Troutman" wrote:
> >
> > > <snip> Plan one out towards Centreville /
> Manassas /
> > > Reston and I'll be there.  Perhaps we should
> start a NOVA cycles list.
>
>
> ___________________________________________
>      Mike Troutman
>          http://www.troutman.org/vfr
>          1997 Honda VFR 750
>             AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/
>             NMA http://www.motorists.org
>
> One who knows the enemy and knows himself
> will not be in danger in a hundred battles.
> One who does not know the enemy but knows himself
> will sometimes win, sometimes lose.
> One who does not know the enemy and does not know
> himself
> will be in danger in every battle.
>   - Sun Tzu
>





__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year
http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 13:23:31 2004
Subject:  Bike Night Weekend and Moto Maintenance
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 13:23:28 -0400
From: "Julian Halton" <julian@XXXXXX>
To: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>


One of the great things about this place is freedom of speech and
expression. I was hoping to meet some of the regular posters on the list
so I could put  a face to an electronic persona.  It was great to meet
Chuck and see Mark again who kindly took some time out to stop into one
of my bar gigs and introduce himself.  Sean Steele, Andy,  Paul
Wilson..and Bill..fun chatting with you guys.  Even the elusive Rich
Hall popped in on his silver steed.

I was looking forward to a day of good riding..and started my usual
jaunt up to Annapolis. Halfway up 50 my right hand was numb and I am now
a victim of road vibration.  It sucks because it annoys and distracts.
I have to play Doctor and attempt a diagnosis... As the tires and then
the suspension are what connects the rest, I am going to guess one or
the other needs to be looked at.  I put the bike on a friend's Micron
mount (got to get me one) and lubed the chain and spun the rear tire.

At one particular point there is about a half inch hesitation where if I
turn the wheel either way, there is a slight 'catch'. Wondering if this
is normal and wondering if it contributes to right handlebar vibration
in some way.

As to my prior moans about shifting to second,  clue 1 was long
throw...thank a fellow lister....clue 2 was a tip from my all around
work guru who said...next time you shift and pop it into neutral, goose
the throttle and then ease it into second....no more clacking!




From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 14:55:58 2004
From: Bob Meyer <rmeyer9@XXXXXX>
Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX
To: "Sean Steele" <sean@XXXXXX>, "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Stripped oil drain pan bolt
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 14:55:46 -0400

Sears sells a new line of bolt extractors that are designed to grip the outside of the bolt head, as opposed to drilling a hole in the bolt.  They are reported to work quite well (I haven't had to use them yet, fortunately).

I'm not sure what the largest size available is, but it's probably worth a trip to Sears to check.

Bob Meyer

>
> From: "Sean Steele" <sean@XXXXXX>
> Date: 2004/05/23 Sun PM 04:41:14 EDT
> To: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
> Subject: Stripped oil drain pan bolt
>
> So I went to change oil for the first time this afternoon on my Seca.
> The oil drain pan bolt head is mangled pretty badly -- I can't get a
> purchase on it.
>
> Any ideas for getting it out? I'm assuming (optomistically) that the
> threads aren't stripped as well.
>
> Now off to ratbike night.
>
> -Sean
> War-shington, DC
> '92 Seca II (Beater-tour)
>
>

Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157
'01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa"
'92 ST1100, "red STag"
'02 919, "still looking for a name"

A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers....

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 14:59:13 2004
From: "Sean Steele" <sean@XXXXXX>
To: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 14:58:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Stripped oil drain pan bolt

I picked up a set of "damaged bolt" extractors at Sears and plan to wage
war on the forces of evil this evening. I'll keep you all posted.

Thanks for the suggestions.

-Sean
War-shington, DC
'92 Seca II "The Mangler"

Bob Meyer wrote:

> Sears sells a new line of bolt extractors that are designed to grip the outside of the bolt head, as opposed to drilling a hole in the bolt.  They are reported to work quite well (I haven't had to use them yet, fortunately).
>
> I'm not sure what the largest size available is, but it's probably worth a trip to Sears to check.
>
> Bob Meyer
>
>
>>From: "Sean Steele" <sean@XXXXXX>
>>Date: 2004/05/23 Sun PM 04:41:14 EDT
>>To: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
>>Subject: Stripped oil drain pan bolt
>>
>>So I went to change oil for the first time this afternoon on my Seca.
>>The oil drain pan bolt head is mangled pretty badly -- I can't get a
>>purchase on it.
>>
>>Any ideas for getting it out? I'm assuming (optomistically) that the
>>threads aren't stripped as well.
>>
>>Now off to ratbike night.
>>
>>-Sean
>>War-shington, DC
>>'92 Seca II (Beater-tour)

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 15:02:24 2004
From: Bob Meyer <rmeyer9@XXXXXX>
Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX
To: Ryan Santoso <santosor2001@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Tickets by Park Rangers...
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 15:02:17 -0400

I got one many years ago.  Hmmm, probably about 20 years ago.  Never showed up on my Maryland license.  But things may have changed since then.

Bob Meyer

>
> From: Ryan Santoso <santosor2001@XXXXXX>
> Date: 2004/05/23 Sun PM 05:47:53 EDT
> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> Subject: Tickets by Park Rangers...
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I got a ticket on the Blue Ridge parkway this weekend
> in the Virgina/North Carolina border of the Parkway.
> Does anyone know if they will carry over to your
> state?
>
> I was busted for 66 on a 45...ouch!
>
> Ryan
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year
> http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer
>
>

Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157
'01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa"
'92 ST1100, "red STag"
'02 919, "still looking for a name"

A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers....


From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 15:08:21 2004
From: Bob Meyer <rmeyer9@XXXXXX>
Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX
To: Ryan Santoso <santosor2001@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Tickets by Park Rangers...
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 15:08:14 -0400

I got one many years ago.  Hmmm, probably about 20 years ago.  Never showed up on my Maryland license.  But things may have changed since then.

Bob Meyer

>
> From: Ryan Santoso <santosor2001@XXXXXX>
> Date: 2004/05/23 Sun PM 05:47:53 EDT
> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> Subject: Tickets by Park Rangers...
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I got a ticket on the Blue Ridge parkway this weekend
> in the Virgina/North Carolina border of the Parkway.
> Does anyone know if they will carry over to your
> state?
>
> I was busted for 66 on a 45...ouch!
>
> Ryan
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year
> http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer
>
>

Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157
'01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa"
'92 ST1100, "red STag"
'02 919, "still looking for a name"

A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers....


From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 15:47:58 2004
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 12:47:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: Dr Gridlock
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

From today's chat

Clifton, Va.: Why are motorcycles allowed in the HOV?
The average Harley's gas mileage is equal to a Toyota
Corolla. At the repair shop one of mechanics had a
Harley and we ran his Harley and my BMW on an exhaust
gas analyzer. For CO, NOX and other pollutants the
Harley was anywhere between 20 to 100 hundred times
higher than my car at the same RPM's that would equal
65 mph on the road. This was a stock Harley. Modified
Harleys which are numerous on 66 and 395 pollute even
more and get about 20 mpg. So why are they on HOV?
Most bikes don't have fuel injection or catlytic
converters.

Dr. Gridlock: I believe the motorcycle lobby was
heard. I also believe the state wants to encourage
motorcycle commuting because they take up less room
than autos/trucks. They also take up less parking at
work places.

While the motorcycle you mention may get only 20 mpg!,
I wonder if the average mpg of all motorcycles isn't
significantly higher.

As you may be able to tell, I have no problems with
motorcycles using HOV lanes...






__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Friends.  Fun.  Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger.
http://messenger.yahoo.com/

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 15:59:16 2004
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 15:59:06 -0400
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Dr Gridlock

At 03:47 PM 5/24/2004, Mark Kitchell wrote:
>Dr. Gridlock: I believe the motorcycle lobby was
>heard. I also believe the state wants to encourage
>motorcycle commuting because they take up less room
>than autos/trucks. They also take up less parking at
>work places.

Thank you AMA and any other groups that lobbied successfully
for HOV bikes.



___________________________________________
     Mike Troutman
         http://www.troutman.org/vfr
         1997 Honda VFR 750
            AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/
            NMA http://www.motorists.org

One who knows the enemy and knows himself
will not be in danger in a hundred battles.
One who does not know the enemy but knows himself
will sometimes win, sometimes lose.
One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself
will be in danger in every battle.
  - Sun Tzu

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 16:21:46 2004
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 16:21:33 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
From: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
Reply-To: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
To: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>, DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Dr Gridlock

-----Original Message-----
From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Sent: May 24, 2004 3:59 PM
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Dr Gridlock

At 03:47 PM 5/24/2004, Mark Kitchell wrote:
>Dr. Gridlock: I believe the motorcycle lobby was
>heard. I also believe the state wants to encourage
>motorcycle commuting because they take up less room
>than autos/trucks. They also take up less parking at
>work places.

Thank you AMA and any other groups that lobbied successfully
for HOV bikes.

-------

Not without overcoming substantial opposition from an entrenched and blinkered VDOT bureaucracy, btw.

I guess the author of that comment to the Grid thinks any vehicle getting worse mileage and allegedly polluting more than his BMW (cage) should be banned from the HOV lanes.

Typical Me First thinking that is sadly all too common in this area.

A few more points.

1)  The emissions thing is largely irrelevant.  Vehicles allowed in the lanes are all legally insured, registered and inspected.  Virginia did muddy the waters a bit by allowing hybrid cars with "CF" plates to ride solo.

2)  As noted, motorcycles take up little space.  Besides, his theoretical stinkpot Harley would be doing a lot more environmental damage inching along in the regular lanes.

3)  Motorcycles inflict little wear on the road surface.

4)  Seems to me HOV use is a "reward" given to motorists who use their vehicles (marginally) more efficiently.  A motorcyclist certainly fits that description.

5)  The author commits the demagogue's offense of comparing his own conduct to an egregious example, a higher modified Harley.  What about the motorcycle fleet as a whole?



Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org
95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour]

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 16:31:29 2004
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 16:28:03 -0400
To: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX, adamme1@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: new rider embarassing moment

At 10:39 AM 5/24/04 EDT, ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote:
>In a message dated 5/21/2004 3:51:30 PM Eastern  Daylight Time,
>adamme1@XXXXXX writes:
>> From: Skip  <skip@XXXXXX>

>>I say that we ought to go ride  sometime and he says
>> that he's got to do some more practicing for his  license test next week.
>
>...wait a minute...he's riding WITHOUT A  FUCKING LICENSE????
>--------------------------------
>Probably has his learners permit if he's practicing to go take the  test.
>Scooter

In Maryland that only entitles you to ride on the public roadways if you
are accompanied by a licensed motorcycle rider....you said he was alone
didn't you?  Is it different where you live?


-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 16:31:51 2004
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 16:32:08 -0400
To: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>,
   DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Bike Night

At 07:43 AM 5/24/04 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote:
>Thanks for all that attended Bike Night and a big boo
>for those that did not!   If you can write the emails
>why can't you ride the bike?

Some of us were riding much of the weekend...Bike Nite was scheduled on a
day with at least two other moto events in the area, and I was at one of them.

Glad you had fun anyway!



-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 16:44:54 2004
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 16:44:56 -0400
To: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Subject: Shooting and riding is possible?

http://www.nbc4.com/news/3339387/detail.html

"From what our investigation is showing us now, a vehicle, possibly a
motorcycle traveling west on Shepherd Street, began to fire at another
vehicle, we believe was traveling north on 4th Street,"

...on another note, apparently an old Nighthawk can get 100 mpg, and is
fueling a wave of new riders eager to avoid prices at the pump.
http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/8743181.htm



___________________________________________
     Mike Troutman
         http://www.troutman.org/vfr
         1997 Honda VFR 750
            AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/
            NMA http://www.motorists.org

One who knows the enemy and knows himself
will not be in danger in a hundred battles.
One who does not know the enemy but knows himself
will sometimes win, sometimes lose.
One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself
will be in danger in every battle.
  - Sun Tzu

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 16:48:00 2004
Subject: RE: Shooting and riding is possible?
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 16:47:57 -0400
From: "Julian Halton" <julian@XXXXXX>
To: "Troutman" <mike@XXXXXX>, "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Especially if it was a lefty...like me....remember Mad Max.


-----Original Message-----
From: Troutman [mailto:mike@XXXXXX]
Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 4:45 PM
To: DC Cycles
Subject: Shooting and riding is possible?

http://www.nbc4.com/news/3339387/detail.html

"From what our investigation is showing us now, a vehicle, possibly a
motorcycle traveling west on Shepherd Street, began to fire at another
vehicle, we believe was traveling north on 4th Street,"

...on another note, apparently an old Nighthawk can get 100 mpg, and is
fueling a wave of new riders eager to avoid prices at the pump.
http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/8743181.htm



___________________________________________
     Mike Troutman
         http://www.troutman.org/vfr
         1997 Honda VFR 750
            AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/
            NMA http://www.motorists.org

One who knows the enemy and knows himself
will not be in danger in a hundred battles.
One who does not know the enemy but knows himself
will sometimes win, sometimes lose.
One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself
will be in danger in every battle.
  - Sun Tzu




From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 16:52:05 2004
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 16:44:42 -0400
To: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>,
   DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Bike Night

At 09:56 AM 5/24/04 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote:
>As for being a list favorite, its mildly funny to me
>that some of our other 'favorites', such as Gimer and
>Bartman never show up.

I was at an ERC course on Saturday (rode out at 6:30am, got back at 4:30pm,
just in time to head to another event that ran until midnight.  Got to
sleep at 2am, for an alarm at 7am to get to the Cruz'n for Cancer
ride...that ran until 3pm.  At that point I got to head home to take care
of all the chores I'd been ignoring for the other events.  I was a bit
tired by then anyway, and when I'm tired, I'm grumpy.  Believe me, I did
you a favor by not showing up.

>Bartman, FYI, I can assure you would be safe at Bike
>Night.  You would have to back up your shit talking
>though.

I know I'd be safe, but would Gimmer?  That's a more relevant question.

-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 16:52:06 2004
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 16:53:31 -0400
To: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>,
   DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Bike Night

At 09:54 AM 5/24/04 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote:
>Mike:
>
>Feel free to plan your own Bike Night whenever and
>where you wish.  Personally I think 80 bikes from
>Nova, DC and MD was a great turnout for the first
>event (also with rain in the forecast).  If that event
>was held further out almost all the non-Virginia
>riders would drop out, which would certainly result in
>a much smaller overall turnout.

Yes, 80 bikes is a decent turnout.  No, holding it farther out wouldn't put
off those of us from Maryland or other non-Virginia places.  I'd rather
ride out to Reston than in to Arlington...especially since I can get there
via Point of Rocks, which is a much prettier and more relaxing ride than
the Beltway/Parkway one.

I suspect you will find a bigger division between suburban/city riders than
between MD/VA/WV.  People get used to the type of riding where they live,
and don't always like other kinds of riding much.

>So if its hard for you to get out of your comfort
>zone, please stay home.  And when we have a Bike Night
>in the confines of the District, please keep your
>comments about DC cops, speed cameras, welfare moms,
>crack addicts, the mayor, the condition of the roads,
>lack of parking, liberals, gays and scooters to
>yourself.

While many of those things are a disincentive to riding into D.C., the main
one for me is the high crime rate and prohibition against self-defense that
the local government set up in violation of the U.S. Constitution.

Don't feel too bad though...the same factors keep me from wanting to ride
into Baltimore too, so D.C. isn't alone.

Mike T., if you set up something out in Reston, I'll try to make it
(assuming that that's not a disincentive! ;-)


-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 16:57:30 2004
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 16:59:48 -0400
To: "Julian Halton" <julian@XXXXXX>,
   "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Bike Night Weekend and Moto Maintenance

At 01:23 PM 5/24/04 -0400, Julian Halton wrote:

>At one particular point there is about a half inch hesitation where if I
>turn the wheel either way, there is a slight 'catch'. Wondering if this
>is normal and wondering if it contributes to right handlebar vibration
>in some way.

My understanding is that wheels should turn smoothly all the way around.
If they don't, something is wrong.

First two things that come to mind for possibilities are wheel bearings and
brake rotors.  I suppose a bent axle could do it too maybe, but that guess
is just based on pedal bike experience...not sure how the differences in
moto design will affect that as a possibility.

I suppose it could even just be a rough spot on a brake rotor, since the
pads tend to rub on them all the way around even when not "on".

Anything that causes a sudden change in rolling resistance is likely to
result in some sort of vibration while riding.

Again, IANAM.

-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 16:58:46 2004
From: "Rob Sharp" <rob@XXXXXX>
To: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>, Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>,
   DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Dr Gridlock
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 17:00:32 -0400

HOV is all about saving space on the roads and HAS nothing to do with fuel
economy...  Hence the acronym High Occupancy Vehicle.  I have no clue why the
hybrids are allowed in HOV with a single driver.  I know it's to encourage
their use but logic is so often lost on our gov't.


Rob


On Mon, 24 May 2004 16:21:33 -0400 (GMT-04:00), Paul Wilson wrote
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
> Sent: May 24, 2004 3:59 PM
> To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
> Subject: Re: Dr Gridlock
>
> At 03:47 PM 5/24/2004, Mark Kitchell wrote:
> >Dr. Gridlock: I believe the motorcycle lobby was
> >heard. I also believe the state wants to encourage
> >motorcycle commuting because they take up less room
> >than autos/trucks. They also take up less parking at
> >work places.
>
> Thank you AMA and any other groups that lobbied successfully
> for HOV bikes.
>
> -------
>
> Not without overcoming substantial opposition from an entrenched and
> blinkered VDOT bureaucracy, btw.
>
> I guess the author of that comment to the Grid thinks any vehicle
> getting worse mileage and allegedly polluting more than his BMW
> (cage) should be banned from the HOV lanes.
>
> Typical Me First thinking that is sadly all too common in this area.
>
> A few more points.
>
> 1)  The emissions thing is largely irrelevant.  Vehicles allowed in
> the lanes are all legally insured, registered and inspected.
>  Virginia did muddy the waters a bit by allowing hybrid cars with
> "CF" plates to ride solo.
>
> 2)  As noted, motorcycles take up little space.  Besides, his
> theoretical stinkpot Harley would be doing a lot more environmental
> damage inching along in the regular lanes.
>
> 3)  Motorcycles inflict little wear on the road surface.
>
> 4)  Seems to me HOV use is a "reward" given to motorists who use
> their vehicles (marginally) more efficiently.  A motorcyclist
> certainly fits that description.
>
> 5)  The author commits the demagogue's offense of comparing his own
> conduct to an egregious example, a higher modified Harley.  What
> about the motorcycle fleet as a whole?
>
> Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org
> 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour]


--
Rob Sharp
1996 Honda VFR 750
2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme
SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA
Network Security Engineer

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 17:03:10 2004
Subject: RE: Shooting and riding is possible?
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 17:03:07 -0400
From: "Sean Brady" <sbrady@XXXXXX>
To: "Troutman" <mike@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>


Given the way cars treat bikes around here at times, I can see why
someone would be tempted to carry fire arms.  Considering that I've been
driven off the road a few times by people vearing into my lane, I take
that as making threats upon the life of the rider with a deadly weapon
(a 2 ton hunk of metal is a very dangerous thing to a motorcyclist).  I
do remember a case in court years back where a motorcyclist was
convicted of murder for killing a family by kicking them off the road.

Having said that, no, I don't carry while on the bike, nor do I want to.
Just one of those "if I were in charge" things...

My Adventurer gets over 40 MPG around town -- Much more when I go for my
weekend rides.

Sean
-----Original Message-----
From: Troutman [mailto:mike@XXXXXX]
Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 4:45 PM
To: DC Cycles
Subject: Shooting and riding is possible?

http://www.nbc4.com/news/3339387/detail.html

"From what our investigation is showing us now, a vehicle, possibly a
motorcycle traveling west on Shepherd Street, began to fire at another
vehicle, we believe was traveling north on 4th Street,"

...on another note, apparently an old Nighthawk can get 100 mpg, and is
fueling a wave of new riders eager to avoid prices at the pump.
http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/8743181.htm



___________________________________________
     Mike Troutman
         http://www.troutman.org/vfr
         1997 Honda VFR 750
            AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/
            NMA http://www.motorists.org

One who knows the enemy and knows himself
will not be in danger in a hundred battles.
One who does not know the enemy but knows himself
will sometimes win, sometimes lose.
One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself
will be in danger in every battle.
  - Sun Tzu




From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 17:13:52 2004
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 17:15:10 -0400
To: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>,
   DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Dr Gridlock

At 12:47 PM 5/24/04 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote:
>>From today's chat
>
>Clifton, Va.: Why are motorcycles allowed in the HOV?
>The average Harley's gas mileage is equal to a Toyota
>Corolla.

Actually, it's closer to a Prius if you go by actual mileage, rather than
EPA "estimates" (which are seriously flawed when testing hybrids).  Upper
30s to upper 40s, depending on model and riding style.  Mine's gotten as
much as 47 mpg on the highway prior to the Stage 1 filter change and tuning
adjustments, and gets about 36 mpg around town even with the mods.  Prius'
seem to get about 32 average in actual practice according to owners.
Gee...WWII technology beating out a modern hybrid...  :-)

>At the repair shop one of mechanics had a
>Harley and we ran his Harley and my BMW on an exhaust
>gas analyzer. For CO, NOX and other pollutants the
>Harley was anywhere between 20 to 100 hundred times
>higher than my car at the same RPM's that would equal
>65 mph on the road. This was a stock Harley. Modified
>Harleys which are numerous on 66 and 395 pollute even
>more and get about 20 mpg.

When you say "Harley" are you referring to bikes made by Harley-Davidson,
or are you including customs made by who-knows-who with engines made by
other companies too?

As for pollution levels, any engine without anti-polution systems is going
to put out more of the stuff those systems scrub out than an engine with
them.  Cars have them, bikes don't...yet...so you'd probably get similar
results with any bike in that size range.

>While the motorcycle you mention may get only 20 mpg!,
>I wonder if the average mpg of all motorcycles isn't
>significantly higher.

It is.  Bikes that get 20 mpg are equivalent to muscle cars...which get
less than half that mileage.  They are all about power, not efficiency.
They are not in the majority by any means.  Heck, we've got a ride captain
in the local HOGs group that's got a 103 ci stroker on his Fat Boy, and he
still gets at least 35 mpg highway (judging by his 175 mi+ trips between
fillups with a 5 gal tank).


-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 17:27:34 2004
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 14:27:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
Reply-To: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
To: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>, Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>,
   DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Bike Night



-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>



While many of those things are a disincentive to riding into D.C., the main
one for me is the high crime rate and prohibition against self-defense that
the local government set up in violation of the U.S. Constitution.

Don't feel too bad though...the same factors keep me from wanting to ride
into Baltimore too, so D.C. isn't alone.

-----

One wonders how I've survived all these years.  Why, two of my neighbors are lifelong DC residents, and they've managed to attain their 60s.  Good luck, I guess.  :)  Truth be told, having lived in Chicago, DC feels like a small town to me.  I don't give crime a second thought.  Really, I don't, I not spinning.  Yes, undoubtedly, there are pockets.  But, those are places suburbanites never frequent-- unless they're looking to score some recreational pharmaceuticals or a little "companionship for hire," that is.  Perhaps you should get out more and talk to real people and not blindly accept the cartoonish view of DC (or other larger cities) that's presented in the media.

So, high crime?  Do you think you're going to be jumped the instant you hit the city limits?  Just wondering.  :)  And, for another thing, it's prolly the one place in the metro area where you're not viewed as a freak of nature because you ride a motorcycle or bicycle for <gasp> transportation purposes.





Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org
95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour]

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 17:40:06 2004
From: "Michael Jordan" <mjordan812@XXXXXX>
To: "'Sean Brady'" <sbrady@XXXXXX>,
   "'Troutman'" <mike@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Shooting and riding is possible?
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 17:39:58 -0400

> Given the way cars treat bikes around here at times, I can
> see why someone would be tempted to carry fire arms.

I would LOVE to carry a paintball gun with flourescent paint balls. Get 'em
on the driver's door and leave a marking for all to see that this clown is
dangerous.

Sadly, the paintball gun is viewed to be as nasty as my .45.

I don't want to kill 'em - just embarrass 'em.

> Having said that, no, I don't carry while on the bike, nor do
> I want to.

I do, and do. Riding is typically limited to VA, WV, NC & TN for that
reason.

Michael J.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 17:44:05 2004
From: "Sean Steele" <sean@XXXXXX>
To: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 17:43:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Bike Night

Paul Wilson wrote:
> One wonders how I've survived all these years.  Why, two of my neighbors are lifelong DC residents, and they've managed to attain their 60s.  Good luck, I guess.  :)  Truth be told, having lived in Chicago, DC feels like a small town to me.  I don't give crime a second thought.  Really, I don't, I not spinning.  Yes, undoubtedly, there are pockets.  But, those are places suburbanites never frequent-- unless they're looking to score some recreational pharmaceuticals or a little "companionship for hire," that is.  Perhaps you should get out more and talk to real people and not blindly accept the cartoonish view of DC (or other larger cities) that's presented in the media.
>
> So, high crime?  Do you think you're going to be jumped the instant you hit the city limits?  Just wondering.  :)  And, for another thing, it's prolly the one place in the metro area where you're not viewed as a freak of nature because you ride a motorcycle or bicycle for <gasp> transportation purposes.

Anecdotal: since 1996 I've lived in Tysons Corner, Fairfax Circle,
Arlington (Clarendon), 2 spots in Capitol Hill, and the West End (think
Georgetown on this side of Rock Creek).

If we cancel out the insurance events -- 2 auto break-ins in the 'burbs
vs. a modest house break-in in the City -- and factor in the time and
quality o' life gained, it's a slam dunk (as Tenet would say to GW).

By not having to cage it every single GD time to go anywhere (grocery
store, gym, dry cleaners, pub/bar, movie theatre, bookstore,
restaurants, post office, pharmacy, airport) I have more time to do fun
stuff. Like ride.

Living in urbania is, on the whole, WAY better than living in the
'burbs. Until I have too many chilluns runnin' around here and not
enough bedrooms I'll take my chances in da District.

Did I mention real estate doubles in value every 9 minutes here?

-Sean
War-shington, DC
'92 Seca II "Urban Combat Drone"

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 17:44:43 2004
From: "Michael Jordan" <mjordan812@XXXXXX>
To: "'Rob Sharp'" <rob@XXXXXX>, "'DC-Cycles'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Diesel Motorcycle and Gas Milage.
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 17:44:32 -0400

> 120 mph aint to shabby either.

Pretty fast for a dirt bike.

Actually, diesels get infinite gas mileage as they don't burn the stuff at
all. ;-)

Michael J.


From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 17:51:23 2004
From: Stephen Miller <freecat@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Bike Night
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 17:51:50 -0400
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

I didn't get home from Classic Bike Day until 7:30 or so, myself.  Good
time -- anyone else go?

On May 24, 2004, at 4:32 PM, Mike Bartman wrote:

> At 07:43 AM 5/24/04 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote:
>> Thanks for all that attended Bike Night and a big boo
>> for those that did not!   If you can write the emails
>> why can't you ride the bike?
>
> Some of us were riding much of the weekend...Bike Nite was scheduled
> on a
> day with at least two other moto events in the area, and I was at one
> of them.
>
> Glad you had fun anyway!
>
>
>
> -- Mike B.
>
> '04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley
> folks)
>
> Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's
> mistakes
> is better.
>

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 18:21:53 2004
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 18:24:13 -0400
To: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>,
   Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>, DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Bike Night

At 02:27 PM 5/24/04 -0700, Paul Wilson wrote:
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>

>While many of those things are a disincentive to riding into D.C., the main
>one for me is the high crime rate and prohibition against self-defense that
>the local government set up in violation of the U.S. Constitution.
>
>Don't feel too bad though...the same factors keep me from wanting to ride
>into Baltimore too, so D.C. isn't alone.
>
>-----
>
>One wonders how I've survived all these years.  Why, two of my neighbors
are lifelong DC residents, and they've managed to attain their 60s.  Good
luck, I guess.  :)

Undoubtably.  George Burns lived to be over 100 despite smoking cigars, so
I guess all that lung/lip/throat/etc. cancer stuff is hogwash, and smoking
is perfectly safe?

>Truth be told, having lived in Chicago, DC feels like a small town to me.
I don't give crime a second thought.  Really, I don't, I not spinning.

Bully for you.  I've seen the stats though, and I've worked in D.C. before
(first year I was in the area at 17th and L, and a few years later out at
NRL), and driven through it in years past to get from PG county to
Arlington, and my ex-wife was living on Virginia Avenue when we met.  I've
seen the flaming cars on the side of I-295, the vandalism, even watched an
armed robbery escape at the Watergate (almost intervened, but my GF grabbed
my arm and yelled no, and the hesitation let the opportunity
pass...probably for the best).

>Yes, undoubtedly, there are pockets.

There are places where crime is far more likely than others, yes.  As a
whole, that description fits D.C. even when compared to the adjacent states
though, so I stay out of it as much as possible, same way you stay out of
the worst parts of D.C..  Same idea, larger geographic area.  The fact that
in my limited experience with them the D.C. cops are almost as bad as the
gang members doesn't make me want to go there much either.  At least you
got Marion Barry out of the mayor's office.  Too bad you let him back into
government on the City Council though...that doesn't demonstrate a
mentality I want to be anywhere near on the part of those who voted at the
time.

Most of this goes for Baltimore too BTW, though the worst crime I've
actually witnessed there was an assault by a guy armed with a trash can
(the kind the city puts on the sidewalks downtown)...that was on the street
a couple of blocks from the Wyndham Hotel about 4pm on a Saturday afternoon.

>Perhaps you should get out more and talk to real people and not blindly
accept the cartoonish view of DC (or other larger cities) that's presented
in the media.

Perhaps you should quit assuming you have a clue what I know, where I've
been or where I go?

>So, high crime?  Do you think you're going to be jumped the instant you
hit the city limits?  Just wondering.  :)

The instant?  Probably not.  If I go there enough, at some point?  Yeah,
it's a lot more likely than if I don't go there in the first place.
Chances are higher there than most places in the country.  It's not the
"murder capital of the US" over and over again for nothing, and other crime
is higher there too.  I believe D.C. invented the "car-jacking" thing.

Oh, yeah, my Dad's car was stolen by a D.C. resident (the car was just off
Rt. 1 in Alexandria at the time though).  A cop spotted him in it in D.C.,
and realized that the guy couldn't afford a 280-Z (he'd arrested the guy
twice before for auto theft, so it wasn't racial profiling...it was
personal acquaintance) and gave chase.  The car was totaled (got airborn at
least twice), but they caught the guy, and he was convicted.  It was his
*9th* conviction for grand theft auto, and he had yet to serve any time in
jail...all prior convictions were suspended or whatever you call it when
they let you go instead of putting you in a cell.  He didn't get any jail
time for stealing my dad's car either...though he did get 2 years for
possession of a gun while on parole.  Note that this guy was a D.C.
resident...where pistols aren't allowed
except for the government and a privileged few (like Teddy Kennedy's
bodyguard...arrested for trying to get one into the Capital a while back).
It's no wonder D.C.'s crime rate is what it is when there's essentially no
penalty for serious felonies.

I'm not likely to fall off my bike and hit my head on any given ride
either...haven't done it in thousands of miles of riding on three different
bikes over a number of years...yet I was getting a lot of suggestions that
not wearing a full face helmet is just insane last week.  Why is it silly
to worry about statistical probabilities that are unlikely in one case, but
not in the other, when the consequences in either case could be serious?




-- Mike B.

'04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks)

Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from someone else's mistakes
is better.

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 18:26:09 2004
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 15:26:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Bike Night
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

God, who cares what you think about DC?  I am deleting
this before reading.

However, without reading I bet there is at least one
reference to Marion Barry?  Let me know if I am right.


--- Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX> wrote:
> At 02:27 PM 5/24/04 -0700, Paul Wilson wrote:
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>
>
> >While many of those things are a disincentive to
> riding into D.C., the main
> >one for me is the high crime rate and prohibition
> against self-defense that
> >the local government set up in violation of the
> U.S. Constitution.
> >
> >Don't feel too bad though...the same factors keep
> me from wanting to ride
> >into Baltimore too, so D.C. isn't alone.
> >
> >-----
> >
> >One wonders how I've survived all these years.
> Why, two of my neighbors
> are lifelong DC residents, and they've managed to
> attain their 60s.  Good
> luck, I guess.  :)
>
> Undoubtably.  George Burns lived to be over 100
> despite smoking cigars, so
> I guess all that lung/lip/throat/etc. cancer stuff
> is hogwash, and smoking
> is perfectly safe?
>
> >Truth be told, having lived in Chicago, DC feels
> like a small town to me.
> I don't give crime a second thought.  Really, I
> don't, I not spinning.
>
> Bully for you.  I've seen the stats though, and I've
> worked in D.C. before
> (first year I was in the area at 17th and L, and a
> few years later out at
> NRL), and driven through it in years past to get
> from PG county to
> Arlington, and my ex-wife was living on Virginia
> Avenue when we met.  I've
> seen the flaming cars on the side of I-295, the
> vandalism, even watched an
> armed robbery escape at the Watergate (almost
> intervened, but my GF grabbed
> my arm and yelled no, and the hesitation let the
> opportunity
> pass...probably for the best).
>
> >Yes, undoubtedly, there are pockets.
>
> There are places where crime is far more likely than
> others, yes.  As a
> whole, that description fits D.C. even when compared
> to the adjacent states
> though, so I stay out of it as much as possible,
> same way you stay out of
> the worst parts of D.C..  Same idea, larger
> geographic area.  The fact that
> in my limited experience with them the D.C. cops are
> almost as bad as the
> gang members doesn't make me want to go there much
> either.  At least you
> got Marion Barry out of the mayor's office.  Too bad
> you let him back into
> government on the City Council though...that doesn't
> demonstrate a
> mentality I want to be anywhere near on the part of
> those who voted at the
> time.
>
> Most of this goes for Baltimore too BTW, though the
> worst crime I've
> actually witnessed there was an assault by a guy
> armed with a trash can
> (the kind the city puts on the sidewalks
> downtown)...that was on the street
> a couple of blocks from the Wyndham Hotel about 4pm
> on a Saturday afternoon.
>
> >Perhaps you should get out more and talk to real
> people and not blindly
> accept the cartoonish view of DC (or other larger
> cities) that's presented
> in the media.
>
> Perhaps you should quit assuming you have a clue
> what I know, where I've
> been or where I go?
>
> >So, high crime?  Do you think you're going to be
> jumped the instant you
> hit the city limits?  Just wondering.  :)
>
> The instant?  Probably not.  If I go there enough,
> at some point?  Yeah,
> it's a lot more likely than if I don't go there in
> the first place.
> Chances are higher there than most places in the
> country.  It's not the
> "murder capital of the US" over and over again for
> nothing, and other crime
> is higher there too.  I believe D.C. invented the
> "car-jacking" thing.
>
> Oh, yeah, my Dad's car was stolen by a D.C. resident
> (the car was just off
> Rt. 1 in Alexandria at the time though).  A cop
> spotted him in it in D.C.,
> and realized that the guy couldn't afford a 280-Z
> (he'd arrested the guy
> twice before for auto theft, so it wasn't racial
> profiling...it was
> personal acquaintance) and gave chase.  The car was
> totaled (got airborn at
> least twice), but they caught the guy, and he was
> convicted.  It was his
> *9th* conviction for grand theft auto, and he had
> yet to serve any time in
> jail...all prior convictions were suspended or
> whatever you call it when
> they let you go instead of putting you in a cell.
> He didn't get any jail
> time for stealing my dad's car either...though he
> did get 2 years for
> possession of a gun while on parole.  Note that this
> guy was a D.C.
> resident...where pistols aren't allowed
> except for the government and a privileged few (like
> Teddy Kennedy's
> bodyguard...arrested for trying to get one into the
> Capital a while back).
> It's no wonder D.C.'s crime rate is what it is when
> there's essentially no
> penalty for serious felonies.
>
> I'm not likely to fall off my bike and hit my head
> on any given ride
> either...haven't done it in thousands of miles of
> riding on three different
> bikes over a number of years...yet I was getting a
> lot of suggestions that
> not wearing a full face helmet is just insane last
> week.  Why is it silly
> to worry about statistical probabilities that are
> unlikely in one case, but
> not in the other, when the consequences in either
> case could be serious?
>
>
>
>
> -- Mike B.
>
> '04 FLSTCI  (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI
> for the non-Harley folks)
>
> Learning from your mistakes is good.  Learning from
> someone else's mistakes
> is better.





__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Friends.  Fun.  Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger.
http://messenger.yahoo.com/

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 19:37:01 2004
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:36:47 -0400
From: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>
To: Paul Wilson <viffermaniac@XXXXXX>
CC: Jon Strang <jmstrang@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Bike Night

Paul Wilson wrote:

> Organize one in Manassas and I'll prolly make the arduous 20-mile schlep.

I'd show for one in Manassas.

Horkster

--
Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)

Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX '98 Concours - BugSlayer
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth      '99 Concours - Grape Nehi
CM #001 NRA IBA COG                  '82 GS850G - Neat old bike

The Mason Dixon 20-20 Endurance Rally:  The Games People Play
Come join us in 2004:   http://www.masondixon20-20.org

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 19:50:19 2004
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:50:05 -0400
From: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>
To: Michael Jordan <mjordan812@XXXXXX>
CC: "'Sean Brady'" <sbrady@XXXXXX>,
   "'Troutman'" <mike@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Shooting and riding is possible?

Michael Jordan wrote:

> I do, and do. Riding is typically limited to
 > VA, WV, NC & TN for that reason.

If you *had* to be limited to 4 States to
ride in, you could do far worse than the
4 listed above.  :)

Horkster
--
Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)

Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX '98 Concours - BugSlayer
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth      '99 Concours - Grape Nehi
CM #001 NRA IBA COG                  '82 GS850G - Neat old bike

The Mason Dixon 20-20 Endurance Rally:  The Games People Play
Come join us in 2004:   http://www.masondixon20-20.org

From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 20:31:05 2004
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 17:30:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Bike Night
To: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>,
   DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

--- Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX> wrote:
> As for being a list favorite, its mildly funny to me
> that some of our other 'favorites', such as Gimer and
> Bartman never show up.

oh christ.  gotta drop everything, including wife and baby,
to make an appearance at bikenight -- otherwise be labeled
a no-showing pussy!

rules are rules, i guess....

--
nsp




> Bartman, FYI, I can assure you would be safe at Bike
> Night.  You would have to back up your shit talking
> though.
>
> --- Troutman <mike@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > NoVA suburbs list?  That just doesn't have the same
> > ring to it.
> >
> > Offered suburban bike night as advice to generate
> > more traffic for bike
> > nights and rejected with sarcasm by Mr. Kitchell.
> > No wonder you are list
> > favorite Mark.  I'm sure your sparkling personality
> > really brings people
> > from all over the city.
> >
> > Why not try the Falls Church area again - like
> > 50/495/Gallows?  I went to
> > one of those a couple of years ago.
> >
> > Now rather than just email, I'm going for a ride.
> > If I can find any strip
> > mall parking, I'll eat too.
> >
> > At 12:17 PM 5/24/2004, you wrote:
> > >Arlington is in NoVA.  Maybe you need a western VA
> > (not to be confused with
> > >West VA...western VA has slightly more teeth per
> > capita) bike night...or did
> > >you mean a "no va" bike night for all of those
> > "riders" that have basket
> > >cases for bikes.
> > >
> > >--jon
> > >(full disclosure: didn't attend bike night, live
> > close to Carpool.  Drank
> > >beer, ate pizza, rode my sofa to Couch Night).
> > >
> > >----- "Troutman" wrote:
> > >
> > > > <snip> Plan one out towards Centreville /
> > Manassas /
> > > > Reston and I'll be there.  Perhaps we should
> > start a NOVA cycles list.





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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 20:33:21 2004
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 17:33:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Bike Night
To: Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX>, Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>,
   DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

--- Mike Bartman <omni@XXXXXX> wrote:
> At 09:56 AM 5/24/04 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote:
> >As for being a list favorite, its mildly funny to me
> >that some of our other 'favorites', such as Gimer and
> >Bartman never show up.
>
> I was at an ERC course on Saturday (rode out at 6:30am,
> got back at 4:30pm,
> just in time to head to another event that ran until
> midnight.  Got to
> sleep at 2am, for an alarm at 7am to get to the Cruz'n
> for Cancer
> ride...that ran until 3pm.  At that point I got to head
> home to take care
> of all the chores I'd been ignoring for the other events.
>  I was a bit
> tired by then anyway, and when I'm tired, I'm grumpy.
> Believe me, I did
> you a favor by not showing up.
>
> >Bartman, FYI, I can assure you would be safe at Bike
> >Night.  You would have to back up your shit talking
> >though.
>
> I know I'd be safe, but would Gimmer?  That's a more
> relevant question.

what does this comment mean?








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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 20:39:13 2004
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 17:39:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Bike Night
To: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>, DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Tom, don't drop the baby, ok?

We were actually hoping for a deathmatch btw you and
Bartman.


--- Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX> wrote:
> --- Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > As for being a list favorite, its mildly funny to
> me
> > that some of our other 'favorites', such as Gimer
> and
> > Bartman never show up.
>
> oh christ.  gotta drop everything, including wife
> and baby,
> to make an appearance at bikenight -- otherwise be
> labeled
> a no-showing pussy!
>
> rules are rules, i guess....
>
> --
> nsp
>
>
>
>
> > Bartman, FYI, I can assure you would be safe at
> Bike
> > Night.  You would have to back up your shit
> talking
> > though.
> >
> > --- Troutman <mike@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > > NoVA suburbs list?  That just doesn't have the
> same
> > > ring to it.
> > >
> > > Offered suburban bike night as advice to
> generate
> > > more traffic for bike
> > > nights and rejected with sarcasm by Mr.
> Kitchell.
> > > No wonder you are list
> > > favorite Mark.  I'm sure your sparkling
> personality
> > > really brings people
> > > from all over the city.
> > >
> > > Why not try the Falls Church area again - like
> > > 50/495/Gallows?  I went to
> > > one of those a couple of years ago.
> > >
> > > Now rather than just email, I'm going for a
> ride.
> > > If I can find any strip
> > > mall parking, I'll eat too.
> > >
> > > At 12:17 PM 5/24/2004, you wrote:
> > > >Arlington is in NoVA.  Maybe you need a western
> VA
> > > (not to be confused with
> > > >West VA...western VA has slightly more teeth
> per
> > > capita) bike night...or did
> > > >you mean a "no va" bike night for all of those
> > > "riders" that have basket
> > > >cases for bikes.
> > > >
> > > >--jon
> > > >(full disclosure: didn't attend bike night,
> live
> > > close to Carpool.  Drank
> > > >beer, ate pizza, rode my sofa to Couch Night).
> > > >
> > > >----- "Troutman" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > <snip> Plan one out towards Centreville /
> > > Manassas /
> > > > > Reston and I'll be there.  Perhaps we should
> > > start a NOVA cycles list.
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Friends.  Fun.  Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger.
> http://messenger.yahoo.com/
>





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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 20:58:43 2004
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 17:58:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Bike Night
To: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>,
   DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

--- Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Tom, don't drop the baby, ok?
>
> We were actually hoping for a deathmatch btw you and
> Bartman.

too funny.

rumor has it bartman may actually have trouble controlling
his urge to hurt me.  some folks just have trouble with
email lists, it seems.





> --- Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > --- Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > > As for being a list favorite, its mildly funny to
> > me
> > > that some of our other 'favorites', such as Gimer
> > and
> > > Bartman never show up.
> >
> > oh christ.  gotta drop everything, including wife
> > and baby,
> > to make an appearance at bikenight -- otherwise be
> > labeled
> > a no-showing pussy!
> >
> > rules are rules, i guess....
> >
> > --
> > nsp





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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 21:15:21 2004
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 18:15:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Bike Night
To: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>, DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Apparently he goes everywhere armed so I would be
careful.  He could also kill you by talking your ear
off.  Ear falls off and brain falls out.  Not a pretty
picture.


--- Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX> wrote:
> --- Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > Tom, don't drop the baby, ok?
> >
> > We were actually hoping for a deathmatch btw you
> and
> > Bartman.
>
> too funny.
>
> rumor has it bartman may actually have trouble
> controlling
> his urge to hurt me.  some folks just have trouble
> with
> email lists, it seems.
>
>
>
>
>
> > --- Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > > --- Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
> wrote:
> > > > As for being a list favorite, its mildly funny
> to
> > > me
> > > > that some of our other 'favorites', such as
> Gimer
> > > and
> > > > Bartman never show up.
> > >
> > > oh christ.  gotta drop everything, including
> wife
> > > and baby,
> > > to make an appearance at bikenight -- otherwise
> be
> > > labeled
> > > a no-showing pussy!
> > >
> > > rules are rules, i guess....
> > >
> > > --
> > > nsp
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Friends.  Fun.  Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger.
> http://messenger.yahoo.com/
>





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From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 22:38:35 2004
From: "Dave Yates" <Dave@XXXXXX>
To: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Bike Night
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 22:38:24 -0400
X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec799f8c4d36d176afdda4cf19888386d3c3350badd9bab72f9c350badd9b