From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun May 2 11:52:26 2004 From: "W.S." To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Speedy Sidecars Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 11:51:35 -0400 An oblique view at more stability -- One-third page from 4/30 NYT: Not So Sedate: Sidecars Fitted for Speed http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/30/automobiles/30AUTO.html (may require registration) Bill S. / DC '99 VN750 > Mo' wheels? Need mo' power Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun May 2 12:59:31 2004 Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 12:59:13 -0400 From: "Chris Norloff" Reply-To: To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: Speedy Sidecars Good article! Here's Symington's website, with lots of good info - and pics and video - of modern high-performance sidecar rigs. http://hometown.aol.com/sidebike99/index.html And another site that may be of interest: http://www.inb.net/hannigan/new%20pages/sport.html Chris Norloff ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "W.S." Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 11:51:35 -0400 >An oblique view at more stability -- One-third page from 4/30 NYT: > > >Not So Sedate: Sidecars Fitted for Speed >http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/30/automobiles/30AUTO.html (may require >registration) > > >Bill S. / DC >'99 VN750 > Mo' wheels? Need mo' power >Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 3 01:22:52 2004 Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 00:22:55 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Sean Jordan Subject: WERA National weekend @ Nashville Superspeedway My first attempts at motorsports photography! There are only a few pics posted right now - there are (alot) more to come. Let me know what you think! Stay tuned for more pics! (Thanks to Jordan elder for hosting space!) http://michaelj.smugmug.com/gallery/109620 - Sean Jordan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 3 07:23:47 2004 From: "Rob Keiser" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: FW: Got a parking ticket in DC? Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 07:12:24 -0400 This was sent to me via another list. Someone posted a question here regarding a ticket not too long ago. Maybe this can help. No affiliation....just a messenger. Check out this story from NBC 4 - http://www.nbc4.com/money/3251191/detail.html Or go straight to the website - http://parkingticket.com This guy will fight it for you and if he gets it dismissed you pay him only half the fine, if he loses you pay nothing. And check out the special where you can try it for free (even if he wins) until May 6th. _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with the new version of MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 3 08:35:13 2004 Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 08:34:12 -0400 (EDT) From: dan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: camping site recomadations? Looking for a short overnight stay. About 2-3 hours away from Leesburg would be good. Any recommendations? Dan -- From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 3 08:39:10 2004 Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 08:38:50 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: camping site recomadations? On Mon, 3 May 2004, dan wrote: > Looking for a short overnight stay. About 2-3 hours away from Leesburg > would be good. Which direction? > Any recommendations? There should be many along the Blue Ridge Parkway. What kinda accomodations do you need/want? -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 3 08:51:35 2004 Subject: RE: camping site recomadations? Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 08:51:25 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Daniel H. Brown" , I second the comments for campgrounds along the BRP. http://www.insiders.com/blueridge/main-parkway2.htm Otherwise, for a little further out, you might try a day trip to Seneca Rocks, great roads, scenic beauty, and a lovely campground with showers. http://www.fs.fed.us/r9/mnf/rec/rog_campgrounds/senecashadows_campground.htm Robert Verde -----Original Message----- From: Daniel H. Brown [mailto:brown@XXXXXX] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 8:39 AM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: camping site recomadations? On Mon, 3 May 2004, dan wrote: > Looking for a short overnight stay. About 2-3 hours away from Leesburg > would be good. Which direction? > Any recommendations? There should be many along the Blue Ridge Parkway. What kinda accomodations do you need/want? -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 3 08:51:54 2004 From: "Bruce N" To: Subject: Re: camping site recomadations? Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 08:49:33 -0400 Seneca Shadows campground, Seneca Rocks, WV. http://www.fs.fed.us/r9/mnf/rec/rog_campgrounds/senecashadows_campground.htm Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: "dan" To: Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 8:34 AM Subject: camping site recomadations? > Looking for a short overnight stay. About 2-3 hours away from Leesburg > would be good. Any recommendations? > > Dan > > -- > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 3 08:53:12 2004 Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 08:52:13 -0400 (EDT) From: dan To: "Daniel H. Brown" cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: camping site recomadations? > Which direction? Probably west, but not too particular. > > > Any recommendations? > > There should be many along the Blue Ridge Parkway. What kinda accomodations > do you need/want? I've thought about a few on skyline (BRP is too far away for this trip). Would prefer to have showers/bathroom facilities, electricity is not a must have. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 3 09:24:44 2004 Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 09:24:40 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: camping site recommendations? At 08:34 AM 5/3/2004, dan wrote: >Looking for a short overnight stay. About 2-3 hours away from Leesburg >would be good. Any recommendations? St.Mary's Wilderness (down 81 an hour) is beautiful and fun on the App trail. We are headed to Harper's Ferry (up the App trail along the Rappahannock) this weekend. There are easy and difficult hikes, seclusion and public campgrounds. Seneca Rocks is good too. Very pretty. Great climbs there and the very close Great Falls park. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 3 10:39:41 2004 From: "Perry Coleman" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: camping site recomadations? Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 10:38:31 -0400 Dan, How about Blackwater Falls State Park in Davis (I think...) West Virginia. Good road choices to get there and a nice place to camp. Or, Swallow Falls out near Deep Creek Lake. I haven't been there in a long time, though. It used to be nice. Perry >From: dan >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: camping site recomadations? >Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 08:34:12 -0400 (EDT) > >Looking for a short overnight stay. About 2-3 hours away from Leesburg >would be good. Any recommendations? > >Dan > >-- > _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee)B® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 3 12:03:28 2004 From: "Sean Steele" To: "DC Cycles" Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 12:03:15 -0400 Subject: Carb sync tool I'm *considering* doing a carb sync myself on my '92 Seca II and have been looking at the Holeshot Carb Sync Gauge Set(s), but $170 is a little steep -- does anyone know a cheaper source? Also, what do you guys think of the "do it yourself" version here: http://www.powerchutes.com/manometer.asp -Sean "Wash DC... please!" From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 3 12:08:52 2004 Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 12:10:35 -0400 To: "Daniel H. Brown" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: camping site recomadations? At 08:38 AM 5/3/04 -0400, Daniel H. Brown wrote: >On Mon, 3 May 2004, dan wrote: >> Looking for a short overnight stay. About 2-3 hours away from Leesburg >> would be good. > >Which direction? And how fast will you be moving? :-) -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 3 12:19:45 2004 Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 12:19:28 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Carb sync tool On Mon, 3 May 2004, Sean Steele wrote: > Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 12:03:15 -0400 > From: Sean Steele > To: DC Cycles > Subject: Carb sync tool > > I'm *considering* doing a carb sync myself on my '92 Seca II and have > been looking at the Holeshot Carb Sync Gauge Set(s), but $170 is a > little steep -- does anyone know a cheaper source? > You can get a "twinmax" electronic synchronizer for $77 http://tinyurl.com/2lnx7 This is the device that Morton's BMW has used the last two times my bike has been in there because their fancy BMW machine failed. And, ya, I know it only has 2 inputs. For bikes that have more than 2 cyls you just have to repeat the operation a couple times. > Also, what do you guys think of the "do it yourself" version here: > http://www.powerchutes.com/manometer.asp Suppose it depends on how good you are at building tools. -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 3 18:17:02 2004 From: "Gary Foreman" To: "'DC Cycles'" Subject: RE: Carb sync tool Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 18:19:43 -0400 I have a mercury gauge that's free to anyone who wants to come to Winchester and get it! Gary -----Original Message----- From: Sean Steele [mailto:sean@XXXXXX] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 12:03 PM To: DC Cycles Subject: Carb sync tool I'm *considering* doing a carb sync myself on my '92 Seca II and have been looking at the Holeshot Carb Sync Gauge Set(s), but $170 is a little steep -- does anyone know a cheaper source? Also, what do you guys think of the "do it yourself" version here: http://www.powerchutes.com/manometer.asp -Sean "Wash DC... please!" From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 3 19:12:29 2004 Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 16:12:11 -0700 (PDT) From: John Kozyn Subject: Re: dc-cycles digest for 05/03/04 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "Gary Foreman" I have a mercury gauge that's free to anyone who wants to come to Winchester and get it! =========== Now, that's a deal! You might also wanna try jcwhitney.com. I got the MotionPro tool (mercury gauge) for around $45, I think. John Kozyn (D-mode) 1999 900SS 1995 VFR750F __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 3 21:29:40 2004 From: "Paul Wilson" To: Subject: Re: dc-cycles digest for 05/03/04 Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 21:29:54 -0400 Yep, the el cheapo mercury gauge from Motion Pro works great for me. Just be careful and don't let the Hg spill out. Might be overkill if you have a twin, though. :) Paul in DC 95 VFR - 96 KLR650 - www.wilsonline.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Kozyn" > From: "Gary Foreman" > > I have a mercury gauge that's free to anyone who wants to come to > Winchester and get it! > > =========== > > Now, that's a deal! > > You might also wanna try jcwhitney.com. I got the MotionPro tool > (mercury gauge) for around $45, I think. > > John Kozyn (D-mode) > 1999 900SS > 1995 VFR750F From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 3 21:38:27 2004 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Dc-Cycles" , Subject: Re: XM Radio on the bike? Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 21:38:42 -0400 Sounds like the ldrider list might be a good resource for you, if you haven't checked it already. I've not noticed any interference with the GPS. I have the Delphi SkyFi, not the Roady. There are some XM discussion lists for the Roady. Some people have said the Roady's small buttons are hard to manipulate with gloves. I like the SkyFi, as I use it at home as well. I get good reception inside the house, even with the vehicle kit. See it here, with my RAM mount, in the "Farkles" directory. http://community.webshots.com/user/dchondarider/1 It's great for those long slab drones, although I tend not to use the music as much in more challenging riding situations, esp. the talk radio channels. ;-) They've recently added a weather and traffic service, which I use a great deal. DC is XM channel 214, and it's prevented me for getting caught in snarls when I'm out and about on the bike. They have traffic channels for most major cities, with more on the way. I have the Boosteroo amp. The output on the SkyFi is not sufficient to power helmet speakers to overcome wind noise and earplugs. My setup performed flawlessly on my four-day ride this past weekend. Paul in DC 95 VFR - 96 KLR650 - www.wilsonline.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Kitchell" To: "Dc-Cycles" Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 1:44 PM Subject: RE: XM Radio on the bike? > Paul Wilson does. He is riding his bike to Ohio as we > speak. Ask him next week. > > > --- customtankbags wrote: > > Quite a few of the LDRiders are running these. > > There is some problem with > > interference with a GPS, but other than that, > > everyone seems happy. > > > > LindaT. > > http://www.customtankbags.com > > Now - TankBags for 1800 Wings > > Hollywood, FL > > AMA IBA HSTA BMWBMW > > 99 R1100RT Mr. Buzzy > > 95 F3 Purple Haze > > 00 KLR250 Super Sherpa Tenzing > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX [mailto:ScooterFZR@XXXXXX] > > Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 1:23 PM > > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > Subject: XM Radio on the bike? > > > > > > Anyone using XM Radio on their bike? I'm looking at > > picking up the XM Roady > > for a greater variety than my MP3 player and wanted > > to know if anyone had > > experience with this yet? > > > > Scooter > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 3 21:39:14 2004 Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 21:38:56 -0400 From: Dale Horstman To: dan CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: camping site recomadations? dan wrote: > Looking for a short overnight stay. About 2-3 hours away from Leesburg > would be good. Any recommendations? Sorry, can't say I've ever moto-camped that close to home. I have been known to take a short nap on a picnic table at the odd rest area on I-81 now and then, coming home from places like Texas or Missouri. :) I *can* highly recommend the Willville Bike Resort, down on US-58 at the Meadows of Dan, VA, a short ways off of the BRP. Nice motorcycle-only campground. I plan on going back again sometime. http://www.willvillebikecamp.com/ Horkster -- Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark) Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX '98 Concours - BugSlayer Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth '99 Concours - Grape Nehi CM #001 NRA IBA COG '82 GS850G - Neat old bike The Mason Dixon 20-20 Endurance Rally: The Games People Play Come join us in 2004: http://www.masondixon20-20.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 3 21:58:37 2004 From: "Paul Wilson" To: Subject: Re: RE Mileage Bragging Rights Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 21:58:52 -0400 Hmmm, I reckon the real riders are the ones who don't have a deathgrip on the bars and can manage to wave back. ;-) Paul in DC 95 VFR - 96 KLR650 - www.wilsonline.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Allis" > You guys are really long distance motorcycle WIMPS! 1200 miles, 2,400 miles > or 5,000 miles a year? Don't talk to me about being a real rider until you > approach 10,000 miles a year. .... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 4 08:23:58 2004 Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 08:23:41 -0400 From: Dale Horstman To: Paul Wilson CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: RE Mileage Bragging Rights Paul Wilson wrote: > Hmmm, I reckon the real riders are the ones who don't have a deathgrip on > the bars and can manage to wave back. ;-) > > Paul in DC > 95 VFR - 96 KLR650 - www.wilsonline.org > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Doug Allis" > > > >>You guys are really long distance motorcycle WIMPS! 1200 miles, 2,400 > > miles > >>or 5,000 miles a year? Don't talk to me about being a real rider until > > you > >>approach 10,000 miles a year. .... I can't talk to Doug yet, I don't have 10,000 miles yet this year. Maybe by August. :) Horkster, having a slow year, mileage-wise -- Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark) Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX '98 Concours - BugSlayer Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth '99 Concours - Grape Nehi CM #001 NRA IBA COG '82 GS850G - Neat old bike The Mason Dixon 20-20 Endurance Rally: The Games People Play Come join us in 2004: http://www.masondixon20-20.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 4 09:03:37 2004 Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 06:03:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: RE Mileage Bragging Rights To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX And retired to boot, shame on you! Glenn --- Dale Horstman wrote: > I can't talk to Doug yet, I don't have 10,000 miles > yet this year. > Maybe by August. :) > > Horkster, having a slow year, mileage-wise __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 4 09:28:13 2004 Subject: OT - Non-moto accident Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 09:28:02 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: I apologize for the waste of bandwidth, but something's been bugging me... ;-) Last Thursday, on my way home through Tyson's Corner about 6:30 PM, there was an extensive traffic back-up on the west-bound side of Rt. 7 right at Tyson's Corners, opposite the Borders store. Drawing near, I could see that traffic was routed off of Leesburg Pike and than back on a block later, apparently to avoid the scene of a traffic accident. There was a car with a damaged windshield, and some distance away a police officer was spraypainting around a single shoe in the road. Grim scene (reminded me of the list discussion of the lane-splitting FL motorcyclist), but the reason I brought it up is that I have been unable to find a single news reference to this event online. I don't take the WP, so it might have been mentioned therein, but if anyone could suggest alternative places to check, I'd appreciate it. It just seems odd that an accident like this would not make any news outlets, but maybe that's my closet idealism speaking! Thanks! Robert Verde From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 4 09:37:44 2004 Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 09:37:41 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: OT - Non-moto accident To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Robert V. Reported: >Last Thursday, on my way home through Tyson's Corner about 6:30 PM, there was an extensive traffic back-up on the west- bound side of Rt. 7 right at Tyson's Corners, opposite the Borders store. Drawing near, I could see that traffic was routed off of Leesburg Pike and than back on a block later, apparently to avoid the scene of a traffic accident. There was a car with a damaged windshield, and some distance away a police officer was spraypainting around a single shoe in the road. > >Grim scene (reminded me of the list discussion of the lane- splitting FL motorcyclist), but the reason I brought it up is that I have been unable to find a single news reference to this event online. I don't take the WP, so it might have been mentioned therein, but if anyone could suggest alternative places to check, I'd appreciate it. It just seems odd that an accident like this would not make any news outlets, but maybe that's my closet idealism speaking! [Dave] Next week, you can check here: http://www.co.fairfax.va.us/ps/police/police7.htm check the weekly summary of incidents and crimes... HTH Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 4 09:38:11 2004 Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 09:38:06 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Dulles Expo Bike Show? Are they doing another bike show at Dulles Expo this year? I can't find one on the schedule. Last year was much better than the one downtown or even in Baltimore. http://www.dullesexpo.com/main/main.htm ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 4 09:39:24 2004 Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 09:39:04 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: DC-CYCLES@XXXXXX Subject: Re: XM Radio on the bike? X-AOL-IP: 65.86.98.162 Paul, Thanks for the info. I picked up a Roady on Friday and ordered the Home Kit yesterday along with a Boosteroo. Funny thing though, I also bought a headphone extension cable with inline volume control at Radio Shack yesterday for $5 and tried it out for shits and giggles. I think I could get away without the Boosteroo. :-) That little sucker almost blasted my eardrums out at full blast. =8-0 I had the Roady volume set all the way up, as well as the inline volume, and I could hear it across the room just coming out of my headphones. Full volume was louder than full volume on my MP3 player. Anyway, I tried the Roady out on the bike Saturday. Only problem I had was everytime I hit a big bump it would turn off. Either the dc plug wasn't getting a good connection or my dc socket has a loose wire. I'm gonna check it out tonight. It's actually a nice setup otherwise. Came with a mounting kit, antenna, dc cable, cassette adapter kit and a wireless car kit for vehicles without cassette players. Haven't ried it in the car yet. That's this weekend. :-) Scooter In a message dated 5/3/2004 9:38:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, viffermaniac@XXXXXX writes: > > > Sounds like the ldrider list might be a good resource for you, if you> haven't checked it already. I've not noticed any interference with the GPS.> I have the Delphi SkyFi, not the Roady. There are some XM discussion lists> for the Roady. Some people have said the Roady's small buttons are hard to> manipulate with gloves. I like the SkyFi, as I use it at home as well. I> get good reception inside the house, even with the vehicle kit.> > See it here, with my RAM mount, in the "Farkles" directory.> > http://community.webshots.com/user/dchondarider/1> > It's great for those long slab drones, although I tend not to use the music> as much in more challenging riding situations, esp. the talk radio channels.> ;-) They've recently added a weather and traffic service, which I use a> great deal. DC is XM channel 214, and it's prevented me for getting caught> in snarls when I'm out and about on the bike. They have traffic channels> for most major cities, with more on the way. I have the Boosteroo amp. he> output on the SkyFi is not sufficient to power helmet speakers to overcome> wind noise and earplugs. My setup performed flawlessly on > my four-day ride> this past weekend.> > Paul in DC> 95 VFR - 96 KLR650 - www.wilsonline.org> ----- Original Message -----> From: "Mark Kitchell" > To: "Dc-Cycles" > Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 1:44 PM> Subject: RE: XM Radio on the bike?> > > > Paul Wilson does. He is riding his bike to Ohio as we> > speak. Ask him next week.> >> >> > --- customtankbags wrote:> > > Quite a few of the LDRiders are running these.> > > There is some problem with> > > interference with a GPS, but other than that,> > > everyone seems happy.> > >> > > LindaT.> > > http://www.customtankbags.com> > > Now - TankBags for 1800 Wings> > > Hollywood, FL> > > AMA IBA HSTA BMWBMW> > > 99 R1100RT Mr. Buzzy> > > 95 F3 Purple Haze> > > 00 KLR250 Super Sherpa Tenzing> > >> > >> > > -----Original Message-----> > > From: Sco! oterFZR@ aol.com [mailto:ScooterFZR@XXXXXX]> > > Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 1:23 PM> > > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX> > > Subject: XM Radio on the bike?> > >> > >> > > Anyone using XM Radio on their bike? I'm looking at> > > picking up the XM Roady> > > for a greater variety than my MP3 player and wanted> > > to know if anyone had> > > experience with this yet?> > >> > > Scooter> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> > __________________________________> > Do you Yahoo!?> > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs> > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover> > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 4 09:44:56 2004 Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 06:44:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: XM Radio on the bike? To: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX, DC-CYCLES@XXXXXX Scoot: What headphones/plugs are you using? --- ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: > Paul, > Thanks for the info. I picked up a Roady on Friday > and ordered the Home Kit yesterday along with a > Boosteroo. Funny thing though, I also bought a > headphone extension cable with inline volume control > at Radio Shack yesterday for $5 and tried it out for > shits and giggles. I think I could get away without > the Boosteroo. :-) That little sucker almost > blasted my eardrums out at full blast. =8-0 I had > the Roady volume set all the way up, as well as the > inline volume, and I could hear it across the room > just coming out of my headphones. Full volume was > louder than full volume on my MP3 player. Anyway, I > tried the Roady out on the bike Saturday. Only > problem I had was everytime I hit a big bump it > would turn off. Either the dc plug wasn't getting a > good connection or my dc socket has a loose wire. > I'm gonna check it out tonight. It's actually a > nice setup otherwise. Came with a mounting kit, > antenna, dc cable, cassette adapter kit and a > wireless car kit for vehicles wi! > thout cassette players. Haven't tried it in the > car yet. That's this weekend. :-) > Scooter > In a message dated 5/3/2004 9:38:42 PM Eastern > Daylight Time, viffermaniac@XXXXXX writes: > > > > Sounds like the ldrider list might be a good > resource for you, if you> haven't checked it > already. I've not noticed any interference with the > GPS.> I have the Delphi SkyFi, not the Roady. There > are some XM discussion lists> for the Roady. Some > people have said the Roady's small buttons are hard > to> manipulate with gloves. I like the SkyFi, as I > use it at home as well. I> get good reception > inside the house, even with the vehicle kit.> > See > it here, with my RAM mount, in the "Farkles" > directory.> > > http://community.webshots.com/user/dchondarider/1> > > It's great for those long slab drones, although I > tend not to use the music> as much in more > challenging riding situations, esp. the talk radio > channels.> ;-) They've recently added a weather and > traffic service, which I use a> great deal. DC is > XM channel 214, and it's prevented me for getting > caught> in snarls when I'm out and about on the > bike. They have traffic channels> for most major > cities, with more on the ! > way. I have the Boosteroo amp. The> output on the > SkyFi is not sufficient to power helmet speakers to > overcome> wind noise and earplugs. My setup > performed flawlessly on > my four-day ride> this > past weekend.> > Paul in DC> 95 VFR - 96 KLR650 - > www.wilsonline.org> ----- Original Message -----> > From: "Mark Kitchell" > To: > "Dc-Cycles" > Sent: Friday, > April 30, 2004 1:44 PM> Subject: RE: XM Radio on the > bike?> > > > Paul Wilson does. He is riding his > bike to Ohio as we> > speak. Ask him next week.> >> > >> > --- customtankbags > wrote:> > > Quite a few of the LDRiders are running > these.> > > There is some problem with> > > > interference with a GPS, but other than that,> > > > everyone seems happy.> > >> > > LindaT.> > > > http://www.customtankbags.com> > > Now - TankBags > for 1800 Wings> > > Hollywood, FL> > > AMA IBA HSTA > BMWBMW> > > 99 R1100RT Mr. Buzzy> > > 95 F3 Purple > Haze> > > 00 KLR250 Super Sherpa Te! > nzing> > >> > >> > > -----Original Message-----> > > > From: Sco! > oterFZR@ > aol.com [mailto:ScooterFZR@XXXXXX]> > > Sent: > Friday, April 30, 2004 1:23 PM> > > To: > dc-cycles@XXXXXX> > > Subject: XM Radio on > the bike?> > >> > >> > > Anyone using XM Radio on > their bike? I'm looking at> > > picking up the XM > Roady> > > for a greater variety than my MP3 player > and wanted> > > to know if anyone had> > > > experience with this yet?> > >> > > Scooter> > >> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> > > __________________________________> > Do you > Yahoo!?> > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! > HotJobs> > > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover> > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 4 09:57:29 2004 Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 09:57:15 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: DC-CYCLES@XXXXXX Subject: Re: XM Radio on the bike? X-AOL-IP: 65.86.98.162 Mark, I picked up a set of in helmet speakers from www.clearercom.com at the bike show a couple months ago. They fit in the helmet really nice. You can't even tell they're there unless your looking. The MP3 player powered them pretty good for volume but, the XM radio doesn't technically have a volume control. You're supposed to use the volume of your car radio. Anyway, the cable I bought from Radio Shack, http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F007%5F002%5F003%5F010&product%5Fid=42%2D2559 (Gold-Plated Volume Control Cable for Stereo Headphones) really works well so far on the XM radio. Just gotta try it on the bike now. :-) Scooter In a message dated 5/4/2004 9:44:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time, markkitchell@XXXXXX writes: > > > Scoot: > > What headphones/plugs are you using? > > > --- ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: > > Paul, > > Thanks for the info. I picked up a Roady on Friday > > and ordered the Home Kit yesterday along with a > > Boosteroo. Funny thing though, I also bought a > > headphone extension cable with inline volume control > > at Radio Shack yesterday for $5 and tried it out for > > shits and giggles. I think I could get away without > > the Boosteroo. :-) That little sucker almost > > blasted my eardrums out at full blast. =8-0 I had > > the Roady volume set all the way up, as well as the > > inline volume, and I could hear it across the room > > just coming out of my headphones. Full volume was > > louder than full volume on my MP3 player. Anyway, I > > tried the Roady out on the bike Saturday. Only > > problem I had was everytime I hit a big bump it > > would turn off. Either the dc plug wasn't getting a > > good connection or my dc socket has a loose wire. > > I'm gonna check it out tonight. It's actually a > > nice setup otherwise. Came with a mounting kit, > > antenna, dc cable, cassette adapter kit and a > > wireless car kit for vehicles wi! > > thout cassette players. Haven't tried it in the > > car yet. That's this weekend. :-) > > Scooter From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 4 10:04:53 2004 Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 09:04:41 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX, DC-CYCLES@XXXXXX Subject: Re: XM Radio on the bike? -----Original Message----- From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX Mark, I picked up a set of in helmet speakers from www.clearercom.com at the bike show a couple months ago. They fit in the helmet really nice. You can't even tell they're there unless your looking. The MP3 player powered them pretty good for volume but, the XM radio doesn't technically have a volume control. You're supposed to use the volume of your car radio. Anyway, the cable I bought from Radio Shack, http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F007%5F002%5F003%5F010&product%5Fid=42%2D2559 (Gold-Plated Volume Control Cable for Stereo Headphones) really works well so far on the XM radio. Just gotta try it on the bike now. :-) Scooter ------------- Great minds think alike. :) I've got the clearer.com speakers and the Radio Shack inline volume control. I still think you're going to need the Boosteroo to hear the music at speed. I usually have the volume control at its highest setting on the highway, and turned down in stop and go stuff. Paul in DC 95 VFR - 96 KLR650 - www.wilsonline.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 4 10:25:45 2004 Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 07:25:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: XM Radio on the bike? To: Paul Wilson , ScooterFZR@XXXXXX, DC-CYCLES@XXXXXX I never found the inhelmet speakers loud enough so I use the Koss ear plugs/phones. --- Paul Wilson wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX > > > Mark, > > I picked up a set of in helmet speakers from > www.clearercom.com at the bike show a couple months > ago. They fit in the helmet really nice. You can't > even tell they're there unless your looking. The > MP3 player powered them pretty good for volume but, > the XM radio doesn't technically have a volume > control. You're supposed to use the volume of your > car radio. Anyway, the cable I bought from Radio > Shack, > http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F007%5F002%5F003%5F010&product%5Fid=42%2D2559 > (Gold-Plated Volume Control Cable for Stereo > Headphones) really works well so far on the XM > radio. Just gotta try it on the bike now. :-) > > Scooter > > > ------------- > > Great minds think alike. :) I've got the > clearer.com speakers and the Radio Shack inline > volume control. I still think you're going to need > the Boosteroo to hear the music at speed. I usually > have the volume control at its highest setting on > the highway, and turned down in stop and go stuff. > > > > Paul in DC > 95 VFR - 96 KLR650 - www.wilsonline.org > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 4 10:35:52 2004 Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 10:35:41 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: DC-CYCLES@XXXXXX Subject: Re: XM Radio on the bike? X-AOL-IP: 65.86.98.162 Thanks, I'll keep that in mind. :-) Scooter In a message dated 5/4/2004 10:04:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, viffermaniac@XXXXXX writes: > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX > > > Mark, > > I picked up a set of in helmet speakers from www.clearercom.com at the bike show a couple months ago. They fit in the helmet really nice. You can't even tell they're there unless your looking. The MP3 player powered them pretty good for volume but, the XM radio doesn't technically have a volume control. You're supposed to use the volume of your car radio. Anyway, the cable I bought from Radio Shack, http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F007%5F002%5F003%5F010&product%5Fid=42%2D2559 (Gold-Plated Volume Control Cable for Stereo Headphones) really works well so far on the XM radio. Just gotta try it on the bike now. :-) > > Scooter > > > ------------- > > Great minds think alike. :) I've got the clearer.com speakers and the Radio Shack inline volume control. I still think you're going to need the Boosteroo to hear the music at speed. I usually have the volume control at its highest setting > on the highway, and turned down in stop and go stuff. > > > > Paul in DC > 95 VFR - 96 KLR650 - www.wilsonline.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 4 10:39:55 2004 Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 10:39:41 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: DC-CYCLES@XXXXXX Subject: Re: XM Radio on the bike? X-AOL-IP: 65.86.98.162 I have a set of those also. They have just been bugging the hell out of me lately. They either come out when I put on my helmet or shift afterwards and start hitting in the wrong places. Having to take them out and play with them to get them in right everytime you stop and take off your helmet is a pain. The speakers from Clearercom velcro in and the cable & connector tuck in out of site. We'll see how well they do on the bike with just the inline volume control and then the Boosteroo. :-) Scooter In a message dated 5/4/2004 10:25:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time, markkitchell@XXXXXX writes: > > > I never found the inhelmet speakers loud enough so I > use the Koss ear plugs/phones. > > > > > --- Paul Wilson wrote: > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX > > > > > > Mark, > > > > I picked up a set of in helmet speakers from > > www.clearercom.com at the bike show a couple months > > ago. They fit in the helmet really nice. You can't > > even tell they're there unless your looking. The > > MP3 player powered them pretty good for volume but, > > the XM radio doesn't technically have a volume > > control. You're supposed to use the volume of your > > car radio. Anyway, the cable I bought from Radio > > Shack, > > > http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F007%5F002%5F003%5F010&product%5Fid=42%2D > 2559 > > (Gold-Plated Volume Control Cable for Stereo > > Headphones) really works well so far on the XM > > radio. Just gotta try it on the bike now. :-) > > > > Scooter > > > > > > ------------- > > > > Great minds think alike. :) I've got the > > clearer.com speakers and the Radio Shack inline > > volume control. I still think you're going to need > > the Boosteroo to hear the music at speed. I usually > > have the volume control at its highest setting on > > the highway, and turned down in stop and go stuff. > > > > > > > > Paul in DC > > 95 VFR - 96 KLR650 - www.wilsonline.org > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 4 10:47:32 2004 Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 07:47:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: XM Radio on the bike? To: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX, DC-CYCLES@XXXXXX They are a pain but the only way I can hear music on the bike. I modified them a bit by cutting off about 1/3rd of the plastic tube that goes in your ear. Much less painful that way. --- ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: > I have a set of those also. They have just been > bugging the hell out of me lately. They either come > out when I put on my helmet or shift afterwards and > start hitting in the wrong places. Having to take > them out and play with them to get them in right > everytime you stop and take off your helmet is a > pain. The speakers from Clearercom velcro in and > the cable & connector tuck in out of site. We'll > see how well they do on the bike with just the > inline volume control and then the Boosteroo. :-) > > Scooter > > In a message dated 5/4/2004 10:25:37 AM Eastern > Daylight Time, markkitchell@XXXXXX writes: > > > > > > > I never found the inhelmet speakers loud enough so > I > > use the Koss ear plugs/phones. > > > > > > > > > > --- Paul Wilson > wrote: > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX > > > > > > > > > Mark, > > > > > > I picked up a set of in helmet speakers from > > > www.clearercom.com at the bike show a couple > months > > > ago. They fit in the helmet really nice. You > can't > > > even tell they're there unless your looking. > The > > > MP3 player powered them pretty good for volume > but, > > > the XM radio doesn't technically have a volume > > > control. You're supposed to use the volume of > your > > > car radio. Anyway, the cable I bought from > Radio > > > Shack, > > > > > > http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F007%5F002%5F003%5F010&product%5Fid=42%2D > > 2559 > > > (Gold-Plated Volume Control Cable for Stereo > > > Headphones) really works well so far on the XM > > > radio. Just gotta try it on the bike now. :-) > > > > > > Scooter > > > > > > > > > ------------- > > > > > > Great minds think alike. :) I've got the > > > clearer.com speakers and the Radio Shack inline > > > volume control. I still think you're going to > need > > > the Boosteroo to hear the music at speed. I > usually > > > have the volume control at its highest setting > on > > > the highway, and turned down in stop and go > stuff. > > > > > > > > > > > > Paul in DC > > > 95 VFR - 96 KLR650 - www.wilsonline.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs > > > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 4 10:55:30 2004 From: Michael Lynch To: DC-CYCLES@XXXXXX Subject: RE: XM Radio on the bike? Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 10:59:28 -0400 For speakers in the helmet, I find that buying a good quality set of headphones works best. Rip the band off, pull back the helmet liner, hollow out just a small hole for the speaker to recess in the helmet (usually there already for your ears to fit in), glue the speakers in, and reattach the liner. Clean install, they never move, they sound good, etc. Done it with the last 2 helmets, and love it. Can't turn the ipod all the way up because it's TOO loud. YMMV. Mike > -----Original Message----- > From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX [SMTP:ScooterFZR@XXXXXX] > Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 10:40 AM > To: DC-CYCLES@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: XM Radio on the bike? > > I have a set of those also. They have just been bugging the hell out of > me lately. They either come out when I put on my helmet or shift > afterwards and start hitting in the wrong places. Having to take them out > and play with them to get them in right everytime you stop and take off > your helmet is a pain. The speakers from Clearercom velcro in and the > cable & connector tuck in out of site. We'll see how well they do on the > bike with just the inline volume control and then the Boosteroo. :-) > > Scooter > > In a message dated 5/4/2004 10:25:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > markkitchell@XXXXXX writes: > > > > > > > I never found the inhelmet speakers loud enough so I > > use the Koss ear plugs/phones. > > > > > > > > > > --- Paul Wilson wrote: > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX > > > > > > > > > Mark, > > > > > > I picked up a set of in helmet speakers from > > > www.clearercom.com at the bike show a couple months > > > ago. They fit in the helmet really nice. You can't > > > even tell they're there unless your looking. The > > > MP3 player powered them pretty good for volume but, > > > the XM radio doesn't technically have a volume > > > control. You're supposed to use the volume of your > > > car radio. Anyway, the cable I bought from Radio > > > Shack, > > > > > > http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname= > CTLG%5F007%5F002%5F003%5F010&product%5Fid=42%2D > > 2559 > > > (Gold-Plated Volume Control Cable for Stereo > > > Headphones) really works well so far on the XM > > > radio. Just gotta try it on the bike now. :-) > > > > > > Scooter > > > > > > > > > ------------- > > > > > > Great minds think alike. :) I've got the > > > clearer.com speakers and the Radio Shack inline > > > volume control. I still think you're going to need > > > the Boosteroo to hear the music at speed. I usually > > > have the volume control at its highest setting on > > > the highway, and turned down in stop and go stuff. > > > > > > > > > > > > Paul in DC > > > 95 VFR - 96 KLR650 - www.wilsonline.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs > > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 4 11:03:42 2004 Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 11:03:33 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: DC-CYCLES@XXXXXX Subject: Re: XM Radio on the bike? X-AOL-IP: 65.86.98.162 The speakers I bought aren't really the problem. They are good quality and so far work great with my MP3 player. It's the fact that teh XM unit wasn't built for being used without being plugged into a car radio or home stereo to supply the volume. At it's highest setting, it still isn't very loud. That's why the inline cable works so well with it. It is supplying the external volume control that the receiver needs. Scooter In a message dated 5/4/2004 10:59:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time, MLynch@XXXXXX writes: > > > For speakers in the helmet, I find that buying a good quality set of > headphones works best. Rip the band off, pull back the helmet liner, hollow > out just a small hole for the speaker to recess in the helmet (usually there > already for your ears to fit in), glue the speakers in, and reattach the > liner. Clean install, they never move, they sound good, etc. Done it with > the last 2 helmets, and love it. Can't turn the ipod all the way up because > it's TOO loud. YMMV. > > Mike > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX [SMTP:ScooterFZR@XXXXXX] > > Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 10:40 AM > > To: DC-CYCLES@XXXXXX > > Subject: Re: XM Radio on the bike? > > > > I have a set of those also. They have just been bugging the hell out of > > me lately. They either come out when I put on my helmet or shift > > afterwards and start hitting in the wrong places. Having to take them out > > and play with them to get them in right everytime you stop and take off > > your helmet is a pain. The speakers from Clearercom velcro in and the > > cable & connector tuck in out of site. We'll see how well they do on the > > bike with just the inline volume control and then the Boosteroo. :-) > > > > Scooter > > > > In a message dated 5/4/2004 10:25:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > > markkitchell@XXXXXX writes: > > > > > > > > > > > I never found the inhelmet speakers loud enough so I > > > use the Koss ear plugs/phones. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Paul Wilson wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX > > > > > > > > > > > > Mark, > > > > > > > > I picked up a set of in helmet speakers from > > > > www.clearercom.com at the bike show a couple months > > > > ago. They fit in the helmet really nice. You can't > > > > even tell they're there unless your looking. The > > > > MP3 player powered them pretty good for volume but, > > > > the XM radio doesn't technically have a volume > > > > control. You're supposed to use the volume of your > > > > car radio. Anyway, the cable I bought from Radio > > > > Shack, > > > > > > > > > > http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname= > > CTLG%5F007%5F002%5F003%5F010&product%5Fid=42%2D > > > 2559 > > > > (Gold-Plated Volume Control Cable for Stereo > > > > Headphones) really works well so far on the XM > > > > radio. Just gotta try it on the bike now. :-) > > > > > > > > Scooter > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------- > > > > > > > > Great minds think alike. :) I've got the > > > > clearer.com speakers and the Radio Shack inline > > > > volume control. I still think you're going to need > > > > the Boosteroo to hear the music at speed. I usually > > > > have the volume control at its highest setting on > > > > the highway, and turned down in stop and go stuff. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Paul in DC > > > > 95 VFR - 96 KLR650 - www.wilsonline.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs > > > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 4 11:50:03 2004 From: "Sean Steele" To: "DC Cycles" Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 11:49:48 -0400 Subject: Comagination brake flasher Any lister(s) installed one of these brake flashers before: http://www.comagination.com/bflasher.htm If so, whatchya think? -Sean Wash, DC '92 Seca II From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 4 12:44:50 2004 Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 12:44:04 -0400 (EDT) From: dan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Koss Plugs (was Re: XM Radio on the bike?) On Tue, 4 May 2004, Mark Kitchell wrote: > They are a pain but the only way I can hear music on > the bike. I modified them a bit by cutting off about > 1/3rd of the plastic tube that goes in your ear. Much > less painful that way. > Have you guys tried using generic ear plugs with the Koss Plugs? The foam crap that comes with them SUCKS. Check out : http://www.headwize.com/projects/cmoy4_prj.htm Good info on modifying them, for me they work 100% better this way. Dan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 4 13:11:35 2004 Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 12:31:47 -0400 (EDT) From: dan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Carb sync tool On Mon, 3 May 2004, Daniel H. Brown wrote: > > You can get a "twinmax" electronic synchronizer for $77 > > http://tinyurl.com/2lnx7 > It looks interesting, but its a Frenchie product...blah. These seem to get good reviews too: http://www.carbtune.com/carbpric.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 4 13:31:26 2004 Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 10:31:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: RE Mileage Bragging Rights To: Paul Wilson , dc-cycles@XXXXXX do scooter riders have a wave policy? i rarely get a return wave from those pitiful little fucksticks. --- Paul Wilson wrote: > Hmmm, I reckon the real riders are the ones who don't > have a deathgrip on > the bars and can manage to wave back. ;-) > > Paul in DC > 95 VFR - 96 KLR650 - www.wilsonline.org > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Doug Allis" > > > > > You guys are really long distance motorcycle WIMPS! > 1200 miles, 2,400 > miles > > or 5,000 miles a year? Don't talk to me about being a > real rider until > you > > approach 10,000 miles a year. .... > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 4 13:45:22 2004 From: "Sean Steele" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 13:45:08 -0400 Subject: Re: RE Mileage Bragging Rights I'd rather aim my fury at the SUVs, personally, but if we must pick on scooter riders, my thought is simple: why would they wave? If I rode around on a lawnmower with a seat I wouldn't wave to anyone either... -Sean Tom Gimer wrote: > do scooter riders have a wave policy? i rarely get a > return wave from those pitiful little fucksticks. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 4 14:11:16 2004 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: "Sean Steele" , "DC Cycles" Subject: Re: Comagination brake flasher Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 14:11:07 -0400 I've not used the brake flasher, but I do have a comagination headlight modulator. I can report that it seems to be high quality, and has worked reliably for the past year. Bob Meyer > > From: "Sean Steele" > Date: 2004/05/04 Tue AM 11:49:48 EDT > To: "DC Cycles" > Subject: Comagination brake flasher > > Any lister(s) installed one of these brake flashers before: > http://www.comagination.com/bflasher.htm > > If so, whatchya think? > > -Sean > Wash, DC > '92 Seca II > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 4 14:13:08 2004 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: Troutman CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Dulles Expo Bike Show? Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 14:13:00 -0400 If it's not on the schedule, I think you've answered your own question, eh? Bob Meyer > > From: Troutman > Date: 2004/05/04 Tue AM 09:38:06 EDT > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Dulles Expo Bike Show? > > Are they doing another bike show at Dulles Expo this year? I can't find > one on the schedule. Last year was much better than the one downtown or > even in Baltimore. > > http://www.dullesexpo.com/main/main.htm > > > ___________________________________________ > Mike Troutman > http://www.troutman.org/vfr > 1997 Honda VFR 750 > AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ > NMA http://www.motorists.org > > Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" '92 ST1100, "red STag" '02 919, "still looking for a name" A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers.... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 4 14:18:13 2004 Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 14:18:10 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: Dulles Expo Bike Show? At 02:13 PM 5/4/2004, Bob Meyer wrote: >If it's not on the schedule, I think you've answered your own question, eh? I never would have expected a smart ass response on DC Cycles.... If they aren't doing it again this summer, I can't see why not. They were packed all weekend. Any other local shows anyone is planning to attend en masse? ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 4 14:25:50 2004 From: "Gary Foreman" To: "'dan'" , Subject: RE: Carb sync tool Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 14:28:35 -0400 I have a CarbTune. Excellent! -----Original Message----- From: dan [mailto:dan@XXXXXX] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 12:32 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Carb sync tool On Mon, 3 May 2004, Daniel H. Brown wrote: > > You can get a "twinmax" electronic synchronizer for $77 > > http://tinyurl.com/2lnx7 > It looks interesting, but its a Frenchie product...blah. These seem to get good reviews too: http://www.carbtune.com/carbpric.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 4 14:31:12 2004 Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 14:28:19 -0400 From: Skip CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: RE Mileage Bragging Rights I had one give me a beep on the horn, so I returned the beep. --skip Sean Steele wrote: > > I'd rather aim my fury at the SUVs, personally, but if we must pick on > scooter riders, my thought is simple: why would they wave? If I rode > around on a lawnmower with a seat I wouldn't wave to anyone either... > > -Sean > > Tom Gimer wrote: > > > do scooter riders have a wave policy? i rarely get a > > return wave from those pitiful little fucksticks. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 4 14:32:08 2004 Reply-To: "louis-mc" From: "louis-mc" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Dulles Expo Bike Show? Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 14:32:41 -0400 > If they aren't doing it again this summer, I can't see why not. They were > packed all weekend. Any other local shows anyone is planning to attend en > masse? If you mean by the same company, the Cycle World Expo shows, they are pretty much done for the year. I agree that their show in Dulles was much better than their show in DC. They had much more room, and the demos were great. Their new calendar isn't up yet. Hopefully it will be soon. Maybe they'll learn from their mistake? But then again, from one of the big dealers that I talked with, the Dulles show really didn't have high numbers compared to other motorcycle shows. So they make scrap DC altogether. I hope not, but of course they want to make money off the whole thing. I also spoke to one of the smaller vendors. She said they lost money that weekend, they got a lot of people looking, but not too many buying. She likes the Harley shows better. But then again, I guess it depends on your mercandise and the particular audiance for the show. Louis From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 4 14:42:57 2004 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Dulles Expo Bike Show? Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 14:23:54 -0400 Are you referring to the "International Motorcycle Show" or whatever sponsored by Cycle World & Toyota, which was at Dulles Expo Center last yr in March, that was at the DC Conv Center this past Jan? If so it moved to DC and was in Jan. Otherwise I don't know. >From: Troutman >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: Dulles Expo Bike Show? >Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 14:18:10 -0400 > >At 02:13 PM 5/4/2004, Bob Meyer wrote: >>If it's not on the schedule, I think you've answered your own question, >>eh? > >I never would have expected a smart ass response on DC Cycles.... > >If they aren't doing it again this summer, I can't see why not. They were >packed all weekend. Any other local shows anyone is planning to attend en >masse? > > > >___________________________________________ > Mike Troutman > http://www.troutman.org/vfr > 1997 Honda VFR 750 > AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ > NMA http://www.motorists.org > _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar )B– get it now! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 4 15:04:11 2004 From: "Perry Coleman" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: RE Mileage Bragging Rights Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 14:52:55 -0400 Tom, Don't bother. It seems to me that Scooter riders (as opposed to riders named Scooter) don't wave at Motorcycle riders and vice versa. I've sort of, hesitantly, waved at a few, but given up since they never wave back. I just don't think they get it... Perry >From: Tom Gimer >To: Paul Wilson , dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: RE Mileage Bragging Rights >Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 10:31:16 -0700 (PDT) > >do scooter riders have a wave policy? i rarely get a >return wave from those pitiful little fucksticks. > > > >--- Paul Wilson wrote: > > Hmmm, I reckon the real riders are the ones who don't > > have a deathgrip on > > the bars and can manage to wave back. ;-) > > > > Paul in DC > > 95 VFR - 96 KLR650 - www.wilsonline.org > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Doug Allis" > > > > > > > > > You guys are really long distance motorcycle WIMPS! > > 1200 miles, 2,400 > > miles > > > or 5,000 miles a year? Don't talk to me about being a > > real rider until > > you > > > approach 10,000 miles a year. .... > > > > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs >http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > _________________________________________________________________ Getting married? Find tips, tools and the latest trends at MSN Life Events. http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=married From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 4 15:05:44 2004 Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 15:05:35 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: Re: Dulles Expo Bike Show? At 02:30 PM 5/4/2004, louis-mc wrote: >If you mean by the same company, the Cycle World Expo shows, they are >pretty much done for the year. I agree that their show in Dulles was much >better than their show in DC. They had much more room, and the demos were >great. Their new calendar isn't up yet. Hopefully it will be soon. Maybe >they'll learn from their mistake? I didn't realize it was the same show :-( Hopefully they come back to Dulles again in the future. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 4 15:17:08 2004 Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 15:16:59 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: RE Mileage Bragging Rights X-AOL-IP: 65.86.98.162 Thanks for the clarification Perry. I sorta wave at scooter riders every once in a while but, then I give up. Scooter In a message dated 5/4/2004 2:52:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, perrycoleman@XXXXXX writes: > > > Tom, > > Don't bother. It seems to me that Scooter riders (as opposed to riders named > Scooter) don't wave at Motorcycle riders and vice versa. I've sort of, > hesitantly, waved at a few, but given up since they never wave back. I just > don't think they get it... > > Perry > > >From: Tom Gimer > >To: Paul Wilson , dc-cycles@XXXXXX > >Subject: Re: RE Mileage Bragging Rights > >Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 10:31:16 -0700 (PDT) > > > >do scooter riders have a wave policy? i rarely get a > >return wave from those pitiful little fucksticks. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 4 15:36:34 2004 Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 12:36:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: OT - Non-moto accident To: "Verde, Robert" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX i am sorry to be the bearer of bad news. the shoe, a 2002 pennyloafer, was pronounced dead at the scene. i found the full writeup in the fashion section of saturday's post. --- "Verde, Robert" wrote: > I apologize for the waste of bandwidth, but something's > been bugging me... ;-) > > Last Thursday, on my way home through Tyson's Corner > about 6:30 PM, there was an extensive traffic back-up on > the west-bound side of Rt. 7 right at Tyson's Corners, > opposite the Borders store. Drawing near, I could see > that traffic was routed off of Leesburg Pike and than > back on a block later, apparently to avoid the scene of a > traffic accident. There was a car with a damaged > windshield, and some distance away a police officer was > spraypainting around a single shoe in the road. > > Grim scene (reminded me of the list discussion of the > lane-splitting FL motorcyclist), but the reason I brought > it up is that I have been unable to find a single news > reference to this event online. I don't take the WP, so > it might have been mentioned therein, but if anyone could > suggest alternative places to check, I'd appreciate it. > It just seems odd that an accident like this would not > make any news outlets, but maybe that's my closet > idealism speaking! > > Thanks! > > Robert Verde > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 4 15:57:43 2004 Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 15:57:38 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: OT - Non-moto accident when are the services? I have a wing tip that knew her. At 03:36 PM 5/4/2004, you wrote: >i am sorry to be the bearer of bad news. the shoe, a 2002 >pennyloafer, was pronounced dead at the scene. i found the >full writeup in the fashion section of saturday's post. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 4 16:00:09 2004 Subject: RE: OT - Non-moto accident Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 15:59:57 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Tom Gimer" Cc: Thanks to the tip from Dave Yates I found the police report on the Fairfax County site: http://www.co.fairfax.va.us/ps/police/reports/news.htm (Fatal pedestrian crash in Tyson's Corner area). No mention of shoes. -----Original Message----- From: Tom Gimer [mailto:t_gimer@XXXXXX] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 3:36 PM To: Verde, Robert; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: OT - Non-moto accident i am sorry to be the bearer of bad news. the shoe, a 2002 pennyloafer, was pronounced dead at the scene. i found the full writeup in the fashion section of saturday's post. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 4 16:14:56 2004 From: bernescut@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: OT - Non-moto accident Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 16:14:24 -0400 Obviously you need to do some sole searching. Cedric Bernescut 2000 CBR600F4 Annandale, VA "This email contains a minimum of 50% post-consumer electrons." -----Original Message----- From: Troutman [mailto:mike@XXXXXX] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 3:58 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: OT - Non-moto accident when are the services? I have a wing tip that knew her. At 03:36 PM 5/4/2004, you wrote: >i am sorry to be the bearer of bad news. the shoe, a 2002 >pennyloafer, was pronounced dead at the scene. i found the >full writeup in the fashion section of saturday's post. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 4 16:16:48 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 16:16:33 EDT Subject: Re: OT - Non-moto accident To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 5/4/2004 3:36:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, t_gimer@XXXXXX writes: > i am sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Yea. And the cola coming out of my nose was bad news also.......... John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 4 16:50:03 2004 Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 13:49:35 -0700 (PDT) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: RE: OT - Non-moto accident To: bernescut@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX You heel. Arch guys like you never last long before getting the boot from this group. Some day you'll be tapped out, on your uppers, and someone will give you a thorough tongue lacing. Better polish your act and brush up on your manners. -- Larry --- bernescut@XXXXXX wrote: Obviously you need to do some sole searching. > -----Original Message----- > From: Troutman [mailto:mike@XXXXXX] > > when are the services? I have a wing tip that knew her. > > >i am sorry to be the bearer of bad news. the shoe, a 2002 > >pennyloafer, was pronounced dead at the scene. i found the > >full writeup in the fashion section of saturday's post. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 4 16:53:33 2004 From: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" To: "'pltrgyst@XXXXXX'" , bernescut@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: OT - Non-moto accident Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 16:53:17 -0400 You guys are corny. I couldn't resist. -----Original Message----- From: pltrgyst@XXXXXX [mailto:pltrgyst@XXXXXX] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 4:50 PM To: bernescut@XXXXXX; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: OT - Non-moto accident You heel. Arch guys like you never last long before getting the boot from this group. Some day you'll be tapped out, on your uppers, and someone will give you a thorough tongue lacing. Better polish your act and brush up on your manners. -- Larry --- bernescut@XXXXXX wrote: Obviously you need to do some sole searching. > -----Original Message----- > From: Troutman [mailto:mike@XXXXXX] > > when are the services? I have a wing tip that knew her. > > >i am sorry to be the bearer of bad news. the shoe, a 2002 > >pennyloafer, was pronounced dead at the scene. i found the > >full writeup in the fashion section of saturday's post. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 4 16:58:04 2004 Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 13:57:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Hugh Caldwell Subject: Re: RE Mileage Bragging Rights To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX It's that whole Mods vs Rockers thing don't you know. Hugh --- Perry Coleman wrote: > Tom, > > Don't bother. It seems to me that Scooter riders (as opposed to riders named > Scooter) don't wave at Motorcycle riders and vice versa. I've sort of, > hesitantly, waved at a few, but given up since they never wave back. I just > don't think they get it... > > Perry > ===== Hugh Caldwell http://www.twowheelsgood.net __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 4 17:02:06 2004 Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 14:01:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Hugh Caldwell Subject: Re: OT - Non-moto accident To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Ahhhh, so that's how The Short Happy Life of the Brown Oxford ends. Hugh --- Tom Gimer wrote: > i am sorry to be the bearer of bad news. the shoe, a 2002 > pennyloafer, was pronounced dead at the scene. i found the > full writeup in the fashion section of saturday's post. > > > ===== Hugh Caldwell http://www.twowheelsgood.net __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 4 17:54:59 2004 From: "Perry Coleman" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: RE Mileage Bragging Rights Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 17:54:48 -0400 Yeah, I was thinking about "Quadrophenia" the whole time... Perry >From: Hugh Caldwell >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: RE Mileage Bragging Rights >Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 13:57:41 -0700 (PDT) > >It's that whole Mods vs Rockers thing don't you know. > >Hugh > >--- Perry Coleman wrote: > > Tom, > > > > Don't bother. It seems to me that Scooter riders (as opposed to riders >named > > Scooter) don't wave at Motorcycle riders and vice versa. I've sort of, > > hesitantly, waved at a few, but given up since they never wave back. I >just > > don't think they get it... > > > > Perry > > > > >===== >Hugh Caldwell >http://www.twowheelsgood.net > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs >http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > _________________________________________________________________ Getting married? Find tips, tools and the latest trends at MSN Life Events. http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=married From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 4 21:07:47 2004 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Tom Gimer , Paul Wilson , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: RE Mileage Bragging Rights Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 21:09:06 -0400 Never got a wave from a scooter rider. Maybe it's cause I was passing them so fast :-p Rob On Tue, 4 May 2004 10:31:16 -0700 (PDT), Tom Gimer wrote > do scooter riders have a wave policy? i rarely get a > return wave from those pitiful little fucksticks. > > --- Paul Wilson wrote: > > Hmmm, I reckon the real riders are the ones who don't > > have a deathgrip on > > the bars and can manage to wave back. ;-) > > > > Paul in DC > > 95 VFR - 96 KLR650 - www.wilsonline.org > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Doug Allis" > > > > > > > > > You guys are really long distance motorcycle WIMPS! > > 1200 miles, 2,400 > > miles > > > or 5,000 miles a year? Don't talk to me about being a > > real rider until > > you > > > approach 10,000 miles a year. .... > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 4 22:27:37 2004 Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 22:27:19 -0400 From: Dale Horstman To: Glenn Dysart CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: RE Mileage Bragging Rights Glenn Dysart wrote: > And retired to boot, shame on you! > > Glenn > Alas, all good things have to come to an end. I'm a working stiff again, just started up a couple weeks ago. I've got a ridiculously pleasant commute into Manassas now, only 15 miles each way, takes a little over 20 minutes. Good news is, part of the reason for going back to work is that I desperately want a Garage-mahal out back for the bikes. I've still gotta look into all the permits & stuff first, but I think it's do-able. 2 bays, 2 floors, 2 cool. :) Horkster -- Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark) Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX '98 Concours - BugSlayer Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth '99 Concours - Grape Nehi CM #001 NRA IBA COG '82 GS850G - Neat old bike The Mason Dixon 20-20 Endurance Rally: The Games People Play Come join us in 2004: http://www.masondixon20-20.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 4 22:31:04 2004 From: "Gary Foreman" To: Subject: Sunday's Race Photos from Summit Point Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 22:33:50 -0400 Enjoy! http://www.2wheeljunkie.com/photos/racephotos/040502/ Gary Foreman From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 5 08:39:53 2004 Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 08:39:48 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: DUI killer skates on most serious charge To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From today's Times: DUI driver eludes charge of homicide ELLICOTT CITY, Md. (AP) )B— An Ellicott City woman who was legally drunk when she rear-ended a motorcycle last year, killing its rider, faces no more than a year in prison after paying a $275 ticket before she could be charged with vehicular homicide. In essence, Susan Elizabeth Williams, 35, pleaded guilty to a lesser charge before a more serious one could be leveled. "She kind of found a crack in the system," State's Attorney Timothy J. McCrone said. As a result, police issued a memo advising officers not to issue tickets for negligent driving in drunken-driving cases involving injuries until the case is reviewed. Miss Williams had faced several charges, including driving while intoxicated and vehicular homicide, in the death of Dennis Jerry Sullivan, 42, a mechanic and father of two. Miss Williams had just left work at a Burger King on Baltimore National Pike when she crashed into Mr. Sullivan. Officers tested her on the scene, decided she was intoxicated and arrested her, police spokesman Richard Malcolm said. But because Mr. Sullivan did not appear critically injured )B— although he was taken to a hospital complaining of back injuries )B— the investigating officer did not call the traffic investigation division, which would have been the routine in accidents involving serious injuries, Mr. Malcolm said. The officer charged Miss Williams with several citations related to the accident, including negligent driving. Mr. Sullivan died of internal injuries days later, and prosecutors filed papers to drop the lesser counts. In the meantime, Miss Williams had paid the $275 fine for negligent driving. A Circuit Court judge agreed and dropped the vehicular homicide charge against Miss Williams on April 1. On Monday, she pleaded not guilty to driving under the influence but waived her right to a trial, and Judge Dennis Sweeney found her guilty. Sentencing was set for July 7. Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 5 09:12:48 2004 From: "John White" To: "DC Cycles" Subject: Re: DUI killer skates on most serious charge Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 09:12:42 -0400 X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 5 May 2004 09:12:42 -0400 That's f**ked up! Wow! She has to pay some how. The family should file a wrongful death suit against her. Tap into her assets and insurance or something. I know that won't bring him back, but to let her just walk away like that.... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Yates" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 8:39 AM Subject: DUI killer skates on most serious charge > From today's Times: > > DUI driver eludes charge of homicide > > > > ELLICOTT CITY, Md. (AP) )B— An Ellicott City woman who was > legally drunk when she rear-ended a motorcycle last year, > killing its rider, faces no more than a year in prison after > paying a $275 ticket before she could be charged with > vehicular homicide. > In essence, Susan Elizabeth Williams, 35, pleaded guilty > to a lesser charge before a more serious one could be > leveled. > > "She kind of found a crack in the system," State's > Attorney Timothy J. McCrone said. > As a result, police issued a memo advising officers not > to issue tickets for negligent driving in drunken-driving > cases involving injuries until the case is reviewed. > Miss Williams had faced several charges, including > driving while intoxicated and vehicular homicide, in the > death of Dennis Jerry Sullivan, 42, a mechanic and father of > two. > Miss Williams had just left work at a Burger King on > Baltimore National Pike when she crashed into Mr. Sullivan. > Officers tested her on the scene, decided she was intoxicated > and arrested her, police spokesman Richard Malcolm said. > But because Mr. Sullivan did not appear critically > injured )B— although he was taken to a hospital complaining of > back injuries )B— the investigating officer did not call the > traffic investigation division, which would have been the > routine in accidents involving serious injuries, Mr. Malcolm > said. > The officer charged Miss Williams with several citations > related to the accident, including negligent driving. > Mr. Sullivan died of internal injuries days later, and > prosecutors filed papers to drop the lesser counts. > In the meantime, Miss Williams had paid the $275 fine for > negligent driving. > A Circuit Court judge agreed and dropped the vehicular > homicide charge against Miss Williams on April 1. On Monday, > she pleaded not guilty to driving under the influence but > waived her right to a trial, and Judge Dennis Sweeney found > her guilty. > Sentencing was set for July 7. > > Dave Yates > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 5 09:16:05 2004 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'DCCycles'" Cc: "'dan@XXXXXX'" Subject: camping Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 09:18:00 -0400 From: dan <> camping site recomadations? Looking for a short overnight stay. About 2-3 hours away from Leesburg would be good. Any recommendations? Dan In addition to the others IIRC Boyer W(BG)V has a motorcycle friendly campground. Plus, because camping season is upon us, here's some snips from 2002: From: Custer, Carl Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 4:00 PM Cc: 'Jennthebiker@XXXXXX' Subject: camping Start here: continue: Also the Cherokee campground in Tellico Plains is bike friendly. [2004: Alas, the Cherokee was pretty run down last year but was still cheep and as a bonus the gravel was deeper =8^O. There's a new KOA in Tellico Plains but sites are in the sun.] Finally end up here: Lori 13Mar03: Cherokee Campground 6624 Hwy. 360 Tellico Plains, TN (423) 253-3094 Cherokee offers tent sites, showers, restrooms. Dirt cheap. Other campgrounds are: KOA 7310 Hwy. 360 (423) 253-2447 KOA has primitive campsites, basic cabins, and RV sites. Tellico Plains has 2 bed & breakfasts: Magnolia House 305 Hwy. 165 (423) 253-2022 The Tellico Inn 415 Hunt St. (423) 253-7600 Cabin rentals in the area are: Telliquah Resort 152 Rafter Rd. (423) 253-7360 Tellico Vacation Rentals 113 Scott St. (423) 253-2253 Caney Creek Village 5854 Hwy 360 (423) 253-3670 (800) 251-9658 I have stayed at these cabins. They are very nice, the cost is low. The down side is the driveway - very deep, very loose gravel. They are about 4 miles from Cherokee Campground on the same road. Mountain View Log Cabins 1609 Reliance Rd. (877) 597-0911 Mountain View Cabin Rentals Rafter Road (423) 253-5349 This lady has a 2 bedroom cottage on the Tellico River. I have stayed here also. It is very nice, sleeps up to 6 (I think). Riverbend Cabin Rentals Rafter Road (423) 253-4683 Cabins and cottages on the Tellico River The nearest hotels are in Madisonville, about 15 miles away. Motor Inns of America 4740 New Highway 68 Madisonville, TN (423)442-9045 I've been at this one. Decent. There are a couple of others, but I'm not sure I'd even refer my worst enemy to them. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 5 09:17:21 2004 Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 06:16:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: DUI killer skates on most serious charge To: John White , DC Cycles I doubt there are too many assets if she worked at Burger King. That is SO screwed up. Even regular DUI convicts get much more penalties than that. --- John White wrote: > That's f**ked up! Wow! She has to pay some how. > The family should file a > wrongful death suit against her. Tap into her > assets and insurance or > something. I know that won't bring him back, but to > let her just walk away > like that.... > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dave Yates" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 8:39 AM > Subject: DUI killer skates on most serious charge > > > > From today's Times: > > > > DUI driver eludes charge of homicide > > > > > > > > ELLICOTT CITY, Md. (AP) )B— An Ellicott City woman > who was > > legally drunk when she rear-ended a motorcycle > last year, > > killing its rider, faces no more than a year in > prison after > > paying a $275 ticket before she could be charged > with > > vehicular homicide. > > In essence, Susan Elizabeth Williams, 35, > pleaded guilty > > to a lesser charge before a more serious one could > be > > leveled. > > > > "She kind of found a crack in the system," > State's > > Attorney Timothy J. McCrone said. > > As a result, police issued a memo advising > officers not > > to issue tickets for negligent driving in > drunken-driving > > cases involving injuries until the case is > reviewed. > > Miss Williams had faced several charges, > including > > driving while intoxicated and vehicular homicide, > in the > > death of Dennis Jerry Sullivan, 42, a mechanic and > father of > > two. > > Miss Williams had just left work at a Burger > King on > > Baltimore National Pike when she crashed into Mr. > Sullivan. > > Officers tested her on the scene, decided she was > intoxicated > > and arrested her, police spokesman Richard Malcolm > said. > > But because Mr. Sullivan did not appear > critically > > injured )B— although he was taken to a hospital > complaining of > > back injuries )B— the investigating officer did > not call the > > traffic investigation division, which would have > been the > > routine in accidents involving serious injuries, > Mr. Malcolm > > said. > > The officer charged Miss Williams with several > citations > > related to the accident, including negligent > driving. > > Mr. Sullivan died of internal injuries days > later, and > > prosecutors filed papers to drop the lesser > counts. > > In the meantime, Miss Williams had paid the > $275 fine for > > negligent driving. > > A Circuit Court judge agreed and dropped the > vehicular > > homicide charge against Miss Williams on April 1. > On Monday, > > she pleaded not guilty to driving under the > influence but > > waived her right to a trial, and Judge Dennis > Sweeney found > > her guilty. > > Sentencing was set for July 7. > > > > Dave Yates > > > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 5 09:32:13 2004 From: Richard Westbrook To: "DC-Cycles (E-mail)" Subject: Motorcycle Blogs Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 09:28:44 -0400 Does anyone know of any good web logs about motorcycling? I have read so much about blogs but have yet to find one worth reading. Maybe one with some motorcycle content would make it worth while. -Rich 95 vfr From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 5 09:44:15 2004 Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 08:43:38 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: Richard Westbrook , "DC-Cycles (E-mail)" Subject: Re: Motorcycle Blogs -----Original Message----- From: Richard Westbrook Does anyone know of any good web logs about motorcycling? I have read so much about blogs but have yet to find one worth reading. Maybe one with some motorcycle content would make it worth while. -Rich 95 vfr ------------- Not really, that I know about. Besides the "real riders" --according the Doug Allis Formula ;-) -- might be too busy riding to devote the kind of time it takes to do a really good blog. I've been keeping a moto journal on-line for about two years now. Follow the link. Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 5 09:53:44 2004 Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 09:53:36 -0400 To: DC Cycles From: Aki Damme Subject: Re: DUI killer skates on most serious charge At 09:16 AM 5/5/2004, you wrote: >I doubt there are too many assets if she worked at >Burger King. That is SO screwed up. Even regular DUI >convicts get much more penalties than that. It wasn't *her* that screwed up either. She did what I'm sure her lawyer recommended she do. It was the *system* that screwed up. Now let me get this straight, she just left work at BK and she was trashed? Since when did BK have an ABC license? 8-P -aki - From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 5 10:04:19 2004 Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 07:04:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: DUI killer skates on most serious charge To: Aki Damme , DC Cycles You obviously never worked in a restaurant. --- Aki Damme wrote: > At 09:16 AM 5/5/2004, you wrote: > >I doubt there are too many assets if she worked at > >Burger King. That is SO screwed up. Even regular > DUI > >convicts get much more penalties than that. > > > It wasn't *her* that screwed up either. She did > what I'm > sure > her lawyer recommended she do. It was the *system* > that > screwed up. > > Now let me get this straight, she just left work at > BK and > she > was trashed? Since when did BK have an ABC license? > 8-P > > -aki > > - > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 5 10:07:09 2004 Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 10:07:01 -0400 To: DC Cycles From: Aki Damme Subject: Re: DUI killer skates on most serious charge At 10:04 AM 5/5/2004, Mark Kitchell wrote: >You obviously never worked in a restaurant. ..actually I have but the idea that the BK weenies are running off to the freezer for a quick slug just seems weird. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 5 10:35:25 2004 Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 07:35:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: RE Mileage Bragging Rights To: Hugh Caldwell , dc-cycles@XXXXXX which one does the pc800 have? --- Hugh Caldwell wrote: > It's that whole Mods vs Rockers thing don't you know. > > Hugh > > --- Perry Coleman wrote: > > Tom, > > > > Don't bother. It seems to me that Scooter riders (as > opposed to riders named > > Scooter) don't wave at Motorcycle riders and vice > versa. I've sort of, > > hesitantly, waved at a few, but given up since they > never wave back. I just > > don't think they get it... > > > > Perry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 5 11:09:20 2004 Cc: "DC-Cycles (E-mail)" From: Sunil Doshi Subject: Re: Motorcycle Blogs Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 11:09:16 -0400 To: Richard Westbrook Here are two that I check every now and then: http://blogs.motorbiker.org/blogs.nsf http://neobike.net/ And mine is listed below, but it's never updated (and of little interest to people other than me!). On May 5, 2004, at 9:28 AM, Richard Westbrook wrote: > Does anyone know of any good web logs about motorcycling? > > I have read so much about blogs but have yet to find one worth reading. > Maybe one with some motorcycle content would make it worth while. > > -Rich > 95 vfr > > sunil http://widepipe.org/ride/ '03 Honda Shadow ACE 750 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 5 11:23:45 2004 Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 11:23:27 -0400 To: Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: DUI killer skates on most serious charge So why can't she be charged with everything she did? She was guilty of negligent driving, but she was also DUI and committed manslaughter. Why can't she be charged with all of them? If they can go after the Rodney King cops for multiple charges based on the same event, why not this woman? -- Mike B. At 08:39 AM 5/5/04 -0400, Dave Yates wrote: >>From today's Times: > >DUI driver eludes charge of homicide > >ELLICOTT CITY, Md. (AP) )B— An Ellicott City woman who was >legally drunk when she rear-ended a motorcycle last year, >killing its rider, faces no more than a year in prison after >paying a $275 ticket before she could be charged with >vehicular homicide. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 5 11:23:50 2004 Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 11:25:40 -0400 To: "John White" , "DC Cycles" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: DUI killer skates on most serious charge At 09:12 AM 5/5/04 -0400, John White wrote: >That's f**ked up! Wow! She has to pay some how. The family should file a >wrongful death suit against her. Tap into her assets and insurance or >something. I know that won't bring him back, but to let her just walk away >like that.... She works at Burger King...how many assets do you figure she has? She drives drunk, what sort of insurance do you think she has? On the other hand, it says she just left work...drunk. Some smart lawyer may be able to involve Burger King in this...goofier things have happened. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 5 11:26:13 2004 Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 11:23:30 -0400 From: Skip To: DC Cycles , sabmag Subject: Road Rash A while back I saw a website where a guy detailed his crash injuries to help encourage folks to wear gear by learning from his mistake. I need to find that site again. A guy I work with rides an R6. He's about 20 or 21. We were leaving work last night at 12:30am, I'm putting on my jacket and gloves. he is just holding his helmet. I say, "did you leave your jacket outside?" "nah... I've got a nice ass jacket, but I never wear it..." He rides off in a polo shirt. sigh. so I want to point him to a graphic display of the risks he's taking. --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 5 11:33:45 2004 Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 11:33:30 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: DUI killer skates on most serious charge X-AOL-IP: 65.86.98.162 I think it has something to do with paying the fine before the other charges could be filed. Basically, by paying the ticket written at the time of the incident, she plead guilty to a lesser charge. If she would not have paid it, they could dismiss the lesser charges and then go after her for the others. Not sure though. Gimer? Scooter In a message dated 5/5/2004 11:23:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time, omni@XXXXXX writes: > > > So why can't she be charged with everything she did? She was guilty of > negligent driving, but she was also DUI and committed manslaughter. Why > can't she be charged with all of them? > > If they can go after the Rodney King cops for multiple charges based on the > same event, why not this woman? > > -- Mike B. > > At 08:39 AM 5/5/04 -0400, Dave Yates wrote: > >>From today's Times: > > > >DUI driver eludes charge of homicide > > > >ELLICOTT CITY, Md. (AP) â)Bâ‚$)B¬Â)B” An Ellicott City woman who was > >legally drunk when she rear-ended a motorcycle last year, > >killing its rider, faces no more than a year in prison > after > >paying a $275 ticket before she could be charged with > >vehicular homicide. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 5 11:34:16 2004 Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 11:34:00 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: Road Rash At 11:23 AM 5/5/2004, Skip wrote: >A guy I work with rides an R6. He's about 20 or 21. We were leaving work >last >night at 12:30am, I'm putting on my jacket and gloves. he is just >holding his >helmet. I say, "did you leave your jacket outside?" "nah... I've got a nice >ass jacket, but I never wear it..." He rides off in a polo shirt. sigh. > >so I want to point him to a graphic display of the risks he's taking. Keep in mind - you run the risk of coming off like the asshats in my building that chose to tell me all about how dangerous riding is and how they know so and so that got killed or maimed riding. Or in college, the guy on the hall that brought full size posters of smokers lungs into our room because my roommate smoked. He got his ass kicked. If he owns a coat and chooses not to wear it, road rash pics aren't going to change his mind. Besides - it was COLD last night and the night before. He must be insane. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles. One who does not know the enemy but knows himself will sometimes win, sometimes lose. One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself will be in danger in every battle. - Sun Tzu From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 5 11:38:33 2004 Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 08:38:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Bryce Subject: Re: Road Rash To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://www.cmyoung.com/bikewreck.html --- Troutman wrote: > At 11:23 AM 5/5/2004, Skip wrote: > >A guy I work with rides an R6. He's about 20 or > 21. We were leaving work > >last > >night at 12:30am, I'm putting on my jacket and > gloves. he is just > >holding his > >helmet. I say, "did you leave your jacket > outside?" "nah... I've got a nice > >ass jacket, but I never wear it..." He rides off > in a polo shirt. sigh. > > > >so I want to point him to a graphic display of the > risks he's taking. > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 5 11:39:47 2004 Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 08:39:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: DUI killer skates on most serious charge To: Mike Bartman , Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX double jeopardy --- Mike Bartman wrote: > So why can't she be charged with everything she did? She > was guilty of > negligent driving, but she was also DUI and committed > manslaughter. Why > can't she be charged with all of them? > > If they can go after the Rodney King cops for multiple > charges based on the > same event, why not this woman? > > -- Mike B. > > At 08:39 AM 5/5/04 -0400, Dave Yates wrote: > >>From today's Times: > > > >DUI driver eludes charge of homicide > > > >ELLICOTT CITY, Md. (AP) )B— An Ellicott City woman who > was > >legally drunk when she rear-ended a motorcycle last > year, > >killing its rider, faces no more than a year in prison > after > >paying a $275 ticket before she could be charged with > >vehicular homicide. > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 5 11:40:51 2004 Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 08:40:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Ryan Santoso Subject: Re: Road Rash To: Troutman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX > If he owns a coat and chooses not to wear it, road > rash pics aren't going > to change his mind. I see it all the time on the road and the way i see it, its their choice. They are adults and they can make their own decisions. If they wanna get skinned alive by the tarmac, by all means let them eat cake. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 5 11:41:56 2004 Subject: Road Rash Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 11:45:30 -0400 From: "Julian Halton" To: "DC Cycles" If you recall I mentioned a sense of foreboding a few weeks ago. Wednesday last, three of us were riding to Adams Morgan- all in protective gear. An r6 and a Ducati monster sharing one lane. An R6 in the other. We were joking around (visors up) and having a general good time. We are at Florida and 18th street. The light goes green and we all take off. A second later, a taxi makes a left turn into our path. I have to brake sharply and turn left. Ducati stops safely. The third R6 rider, mashed on his brakes to the point the rear wheel was well off the ground. He t-bones into the cab. Hurt wrist, damaged rims and ruined forks as well as broken brake lever. The law took a good hour to arrive, even after I made an appearance at local station. Taxi driver gets a ticket. Night is ruined and we all feel bad. Last night, a gent walks into my bar with tremendous lumps, scrapes, wrist case and other wrist bandages. Bar fight or moto accident. He was cut off by a cab turning into his lane. His destroyed Ducati 748s pin wheeled. He slid eighty feet or so in a t-shirt. He has a broken wrist- two places, a sprained wrist and his skin looks like some sort of gravel-human tissue pock marked hybrid. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 5 11:43:30 2004 Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 11:43:10 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Road Rash On Wed, 5 May 2004, Troutman wrote: > >so I want to point him to a graphic display of the risks he's taking. > > Keep in mind - you run the risk of coming off like the asshats in my > building that chose to tell me all about how dangerous riding is and how > they know so and so that got killed or maimed riding. I tend to agree with Troutman, no amount of dogma or preaching is going to help if they guy insists on being an idiot. FWIW, though, here's a tale from someone who used to read dc-cycles many years ago [1]. Kinda hit home for me, as I was at the gathering he was going home from when this happened: http://www.dd.org/~tale/bikewreck/ [1] Some of the older readers and folks who have been around the net since the dark ages may know of him too... -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 5 11:44:17 2004 Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 11:41:37 -0400 From: Skip CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Road Rash that's the one. thanks! Bryce wrote: > > http://www.cmyoung.com/bikewreck.html > > --- Troutman wrote: > > At 11:23 AM 5/5/2004, Skip wrote: > > >A guy I work with rides an R6. He's about 20 or > > 21. We were leaving work > > >last > > >night at 12:30am, I'm putting on my jacket and > > gloves. he is just > > >holding his > > >helmet. I say, "did you leave your jacket > > outside?" "nah... I've got a nice > > >ass jacket, but I never wear it..." He rides off > > in a polo shirt. sigh. > > > > > >so I want to point him to a graphic display of the > > risks he's taking. > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 5 11:46:59 2004 Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 11:44:19 -0400 From: Skip CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Road Rash I'm willing to be the asshat once. I figure, maybe he doens't know... maybe he just needs to see the possible results. kind of like they do in driver's ed, where they show you the results of an accident where one guy was wearing his seatbelt and the other wasn't. Some people learn from that shit, me being one of them. :~) I was -well- known for wearing my seatbelt in highschool, and walked away unscathed from 3 crashes that wounded the other occupants. No... I wans't the driver in any of them... but yeah, it was the same driver all three times :~) No one else would ride with the guy, so I always had shotgun. ;-D and yeah, it was pretty chilly last night. I got a bit cold on my 5 minute ride home. dunno how he made it the 30 minutes out to his place in leesburg... --skip Troutman wrote: > > At 11:23 AM 5/5/2004, Skip wrote: > >A guy I work with rides an R6. He's about 20 or 21. We were leaving work > >last > >night at 12:30am, I'm putting on my jacket and gloves. he is just > >holding his > >helmet. I say, "did you leave your jacket outside?" "nah... I've got a nice > >ass jacket, but I never wear it..." He rides off in a polo shirt. sigh. > > > >so I want to point him to a graphic display of the risks he's taking. > > Keep in mind - you run the risk of coming off like the asshats in my > building that chose to tell me all about how dangerous riding is and how > they know so and so that got killed or maimed riding. > > Or in college, the guy on the hall that brought full size posters of > smokers lungs into our room because my roommate smoked. He got his ass > kicked. > > If he owns a coat and chooses not to wear it, road rash pics aren't going > to change his mind. > > Besides - it was COLD last night and the night before. He must be insane. > > ___________________________________________ > Mike Troutman > http://www.troutman.org/vfr > 1997 Honda VFR 750 > AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ > NMA http://www.motorists.org > > One who knows the enemy and knows himself > will not be in danger in a hundred battles. > One who does not know the enemy but knows himself > will sometimes win, sometimes lose. > One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself > will be in danger in every battle. > - Sun Tzu From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 5 11:50:23 2004 Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 10:50:04 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: "Daniel H. Brown" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Road Rash -----Original Message----- From: "Daniel H. Brown" On Wed, 5 May 2004, Troutman wrote: > >so I want to point him to a graphic display of the risks he's taking. > > Keep in mind - you run the risk of coming off like the asshats in my > building that chose to tell me all about how dangerous riding is and how > they know so and so that got killed or maimed riding. I tend to agree with Troutman, no amount of dogma or preaching is going to help if they guy insists on being an idiot. --------------- Dogma and preaching, or "information"? Put the information in their hands. If they still choose to ignore it, they've made an informed choice, albeit a poor one. Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 5 11:53:59 2004 Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 11:53:47 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Road Rash X-AOL-IP: 65.86.98.162 I personally think all hackycab drivers in the DC metro area are agents of Satan. Only one out of 1000 speaks english, knows where they are going and doesn't drive like an asshole. The rest think that they own the roads and everyone else, pedestrians on the sidewalks also, be damned. I avoid taxis as much as possible because of this fact. Scooter (taxius-avoidicus to the maximus) In a message dated 5/5/2004 11:45:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time, julian@XXXXXX writes: > > > > > > If you recall I mentioned a sense of foreboding a few weeks ago. > Wednesday last, three of us were riding to Adams Morgan- all in > protective gear. An r6 and a Ducati monster sharing one lane. An R6 in > the other. We were joking around (visors up) and having a general good > time. We are at Florida and 18th street. The light goes green and we all > take off. A second later, a taxi makes a left turn into our path. I > have to brake sharply and turn left. Ducati stops safely. The third R6 > rider, mashed on his brakes to the point the rear wheel was well off the > ground. He t-bones into the cab. Hurt wrist, damaged rims and ruined > forks as well as broken brake lever. The law took a good hour to > arrive, even after I made an appearance at local station. Taxi driver > gets a ticket. Night is ruined and we all feel bad. > > > Last night, a gent walks into my bar with tremendous lumps, scrapes, > wrist case and other wrist bandages. Bar fight or moto accident. He was > cut off by a cab turning into his lane. His destroyed Ducati 748s pin > wheeled. He slid eighty feet or so in a t-shirt. He has a broken wrist- > two places, a sprained wrist and his skin looks like some > sort of > gravel-human tissue pock marked hybrid. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 5 11:57:20 2004 Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 11:57:13 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: Road Rash At 11:50 AM 5/5/2004, Paul Wilson wrote: >Dogma and preaching, or "information"? Put the information in their >hands. If they still choose to ignore it, they've made an informed >choice, albeit a poor one. If he rides and he owns a jacket, he has the information already. I'm about to ride to lunch. I'm not wearing my Phoenix pants, just my slacks and Kenya jacket for the two mile trip at low speed. I am aware of the risk, I have the information. Why isn't it 90 and humid yet? This is still DC isn't it? ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles. One who does not know the enemy but knows himself will sometimes win, sometimes lose. One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself will be in danger in every battle. - Sun Tzu From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 5 11:58:49 2004 Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 11:56:09 -0400 From: Skip CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Road Rash Paul Wilson wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Daniel H. Brown" > > On Wed, 5 May 2004, Troutman wrote: > > >so I want to point him to a graphic display of the risks he's taking. > > > > Keep in mind - you run the risk of coming off like the asshats in my > > building that chose to tell me all about how dangerous riding is and how > > they know so and so that got killed or maimed riding. > > I tend to agree with Troutman, no amount of dogma or preaching is going > to help if they guy insists on being an idiot. > > --------------- > > Dogma and preaching, or "information"? Put the information in their hands. If they still choose to ignore it, they've made an informed choice, albeit a poor one. > > Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org > 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] That's where I'm coming from. I'll make sure he knows the additional ricks he's taking and leave it at that. I do the same thing with newbies in skydiving doing stupid things... I let them know what they did wrong, what could happen and let them make the decision as to whether or not to mitigate or accept that risk. If I know that they are doign something that increases their risk, and they don't know it, and I don't say anything, I am complicitous in their stupidity. once they know, the onus is on them to address or accept the outcome. --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 5 12:01:16 2004 Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 11:58:37 -0400 From: Skip CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Road Rash Troutman wrote: > > At 11:50 AM 5/5/2004, Paul Wilson wrote: > >Dogma and preaching, or "information"? Put the information in their > >hands. If they still choose to ignore it, they've made an informed > >choice, albeit a poor one. > > If he rides and he owns a jacket, he has the information already. > > I'm about to ride to lunch. I'm not wearing my Phoenix pants, just my > slacks and Kenya jacket for the two mile trip at low speed. I am aware of > the risk, I have the information. > > Why isn't it 90 and humid yet? This is still DC isn't it? I'm betting he bought the jacket because it matched the bike, like the helmet. like I said. I tell him once, and then my conscience will be clear. it is, after all, about me. :~) --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 5 12:05:14 2004 Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 11:05:07 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Road Rash -----Original Message----- From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX I personally think all hackycab drivers in the DC metro area are agents of Satan. Only one out of 1000 speaks english, knows where they are going and doesn't drive like an asshole. The rest think that they own the roads and everyone else, pedestrians on the sidewalks also, be damned. I avoid taxis as much as possible because of this fact. Scooter (taxius-avoidicus to the maximus) -------- Yeah, you'd think they'd get better out of sheer repetition. As for not knowing where they're going, I stepped into a cab in front of my house, and (as Dave Barry sez) I swear I'm not making this up, the cabbie asks me for the best way to get to National Airport. Criminy, you only go there, what, fifty-sixty times a week and need directions! ::eye roll:: And don't even get me started on that cockamamie zone system that's tailor-made for fleecing clueless out of towners. It's a shame they're not all yellow, like NYC. It makes 'em easier to spot and avoid. Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 5 12:10:02 2004 Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 09:09:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Road Rash To: Paul Wilson , ScooterFZR@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Bunch of BABIES! I love DC cabs. If you know the zone system it can be very beneficial to your wallet. I know it better than the cabbies. SOme interesting drivers too, many african doctors, middle eastern professors, etc. I have left many boring dinner parties only to have engaging intellectual discussions with the cabbie. Last interesting ride was with a hatian voodoo practitioner. Don't cross me. --- Paul Wilson wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX > > I personally think all hackycab drivers in the DC > metro area are agents of Satan. Only one out of > 1000 speaks english, knows where they are going and > doesn't drive like an asshole. The rest think that > they own the roads and everyone else, pedestrians on > the sidewalks also, be damned. I avoid taxis as > much as possible because of this fact. > > Scooter (taxius-avoidicus to the maximus) > > -------- > Yeah, you'd think they'd get better out of sheer > repetition. As for not knowing where they're going, > I stepped into a cab in front of my house, and (as > Dave Barry sez) I swear I'm not making this up, the > cabbie asks me for the best way to get to National > Airport. Criminy, you only go there, what, > fifty-sixty times a week and need directions! ::eye > roll:: > > And don't even get me started on that cockamamie > zone system that's tailor-made for fleecing clueless > out of towners. It's a shame they're not all > yellow, like NYC. It makes 'em easier to spot and > avoid. > > > > > > > Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org > 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 5 12:15:26 2004 Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 12:17:51 -0400 To: Tom Gimer , Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: DUI killer skates on most serious charge Non-responsive. Double Jeopardy has to do with being tried twice for the *same offense*. Driving drunk, negligent driving, and manslaughter are not the same offense...though they are often committed simultaneously. In the Rodney King case the officers were charged with things like excessive use of force, and found innocent. Then they were charged with violation of civil rights for the same actions...and convicted. If that wasn't double jeopardy, then charging this woman with manslaughter now wouldn't be either. The "pleading guilty to a lesser charge" thing is plea bargaining. That's the "if you'll agree you did X, we will agree not to go after you for Y". It hasn't got anything to do with double jeopardy. It's an efficiency thing in the system to let more cases get settled *somehow* in a given time and with given resources. It's expediency, not justice. -- Mike B. At 08:39 AM 5/5/04 -0700, Tom Gimer wrote: >double jeopardy > > > >--- Mike Bartman wrote: >> So why can't she be charged with everything she did? She >> was guilty of >> negligent driving, but she was also DUI and committed >> manslaughter. Why >> can't she be charged with all of them? >> >> If they can go after the Rodney King cops for multiple >> charges based on the >> same event, why not this woman? >> >> -- Mike B. >> >> At 08:39 AM 5/5/04 -0400, Dave Yates wrote: >> >>From today's Times: >> > >> >DUI driver eludes charge of homicide >> > >> >ELLICOTT CITY, Md. (AP) )B— An Ellicott City woman who >> was >> >legally drunk when she rear-ended a motorcycle last >> year, >> >killing its rider, faces no more than a year in prison >> after >> >paying a $275 ticket before she could be charged with >> >vehicular homicide. >> > > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs >http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 5 12:22:14 2004 Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 12:22:04 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Taxis was Re: Road Rash On Wed, 5 May 2004, Paul Wilson wrote: > Yeah, you'd think they'd get better out of sheer repetition. As for not > knowing where they're going, I stepped into a cab in front of my house, and > (as Dave Barry sez) I swear I'm not making this up, the cabbie asks me for > the best way to get to National Airport. Criminy, you only go there, what, > fifty-sixty times a week and need directions! ::eye roll:: That, my son, is a test to see what kinda chump you are. -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 5 12:35:02 2004 Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 09:34:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: DUI killer skates on most serious charge To: Mike Bartman , Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > Non-responsive. i have no details to work with other than the blurb, but my bet is that the decision in this case turned on the concept of double jeopardy. > Double Jeopardy has to do with being tried twice for the > *same offense*. and, paying a fine often constitutes "being tried." > Driving drunk, negligent driving, and manslaughter are > not the same > offense...though they are often committed simultaneously. being convicted of a lesser included offense often bars a subsequent proceeding based upon the offense which, for whatever reason, was not charged or pursued. > In the Rodney King case the officers were charged with > things like > excessive use of force, and found innocent. Then they > were charged with > violation of civil rights for the same actions...and > convicted. If that > wasn't double jeopardy, then charging this woman with > manslaughter now > wouldn't be either. is this the rodney king case we're discussing? no? then the above is a perfect model example of non-responsiveness. > The "pleading guilty to a lesser charge" thing is plea > bargaining. That's > the "if you'll agree you did X, we will agree not to go > after you for Y". > It hasn't got anything to do with double jeopardy. It's > an efficiency > thing in the system to let more cases get settled > *somehow* in a given time > and with given resources. It's expediency, not justice. and i now officially have no idea what you're talking about. all i heard is somebody paid a ticket and then the state was barred from proceeding on a subsequent charge which arose out of the same facts and circumstances. > At 08:39 AM 5/5/04 -0700, Tom Gimer wrote: > >double jeopardy > > > > > > > >--- Mike Bartman wrote: > >> So why can't she be charged with everything she did? > She > >> was guilty of > >> negligent driving, but she was also DUI and committed > >> manslaughter. Why > >> can't she be charged with all of them? > >> > >> If they can go after the Rodney King cops for multiple > >> charges based on the > >> same event, why not this woman? > >> > >> -- Mike B. > >> > >> At 08:39 AM 5/5/04 -0400, Dave Yates wrote: > >> >>From today's Times: > >> > > >> >DUI driver eludes charge of homicide > >> > > >> >ELLICOTT CITY, Md. (AP) )B— An Ellicott City woman > who > >> was > >> >legally drunk when she rear-ended a motorcycle last > >> year, > >> >killing its rider, faces no more than a year in > prison > >> after > >> >paying a $275 ticket before she could be charged with > > >> >vehicular homicide. ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com **This material is being sent by a law firm and is intended only for the addressee. Various legal protections including the attorney-client privilege can apply to this material and no consent is given to its being read or used by anyone other than the intended recipient. Any other use is unlawful. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 5 13:22:21 2004 Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 13:22:16 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Road Rash To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Kitchell writes: >Bunch of BABIES! I love DC cabs. If you know the >zone system it can be very beneficial to your wallet. >I know it better than the cabbies. SOme interesting >drivers too, many african doctors, middle eastern >professors, etc. I have left many boring dinner >parties only to have engaging intellectual >discussions with the cabbie. [Dave] As a comment and opinion, I would offer that my cab rides around here have been absolutely sedate compared to the one trip I made to Philly for a few days on the company dime. Those cabbies were fearless. Foolhardy in fact. The concierge did manage to land us some more calm drivers on the last day I was there though... I didn't find these guys interesting, I found them to be road menaces... ;-) > >Last interesting ride was with a hatian voodoo >practitioner. Don't cross me. [Dave] Bah ! My voodoo powers are far beyond yours! I've been pinning my Admin's Voodoo doll for about 1 year 5 months now since she got me sick with some form of cold virus. I don't even hide it from anyone. Yes, I do get some furrowed brows, and disapproving scowls, and yes, I should use my powers only for good, but she deserves it! ;-) Dave > > >--- Paul Wilson wrote: >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX >> >> I personally think all hackycab drivers in the DC >> metro area are agents of Satan. Only one out of >> 1000 speaks english, knows where they are going and >> doesn't drive like an asshole. The rest think that >> they own the roads and everyone else, pedestrians on >> the sidewalks also, be damned. I avoid taxis as >> much as possible because of this fact. >> >> Scooter (taxius-avoidicus to the maximus) >> >> -------- >> Yeah, you'd think they'd get better out of sheer >> repetition. As for not knowing where they're going, >> I stepped into a cab in front of my house, and (as >> Dave Barry sez) I swear I'm not making this up, the >> cabbie asks me for the best way to get to National >> Airport. Criminy, you only go there, what, >> fifty-sixty times a week and need directions! ::eye >> roll:: >> >> And don't even get me started on that cockamamie >> zone system that's tailor-made for fleecing clueless >> out of towners. It's a shame they're not all >> yellow, like NYC. It makes 'em easier to spot and >> avoid. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org >> 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] >> > > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs >http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 5 13:31:02 2004 Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 13:30:51 -0400 To: dc-cycles From: Aki Damme Subject: Screw Taxis..check THIS out. good god...and to think we're bitching about cicadas... Just pulled this off of r.m.h. ************************************************************************** Howdy, thought I had remembered seeing something on Nova or something dealing with all the nasty things crawling around Australia, (not just the men and some women..) So, I went and looked this up.. Oh, little did I know that even the Platypus has a toxic bite, who woulda thunk.. "Hello, I'm Doug, and I've approved this message" http://www.abc.net.au/science/slab/shorter/story.htm Along with the red-back and its mythical toilet-seat antics, the funnel web spider holds a special place in the Australian psyche. But what most people think of as "the funnel web" is actually a collection of about 35 different species of spiders, most of which are dangerous. The one that gets most publicity is the Sydney funnel web (Atrax robustus), the species responsible for Australia's 13 recorded funnel web fatalities. The males are the deadly ones and Jamie Fletcher, who studies funnel web toxins at the University of Sydney, says the venom is packed with at least 40 different toxic proteins (called peptides). Only one of them is dangerous to humans as far as anyone can tell, but it's more than effective enough on its own. Called robustoxin, the peptide is another neurotoxin that disrupts nerve signals. However, it works in the opposite way to the taipan venom. Instead of shutting-down nerve signalling, it switches it all on at once causing massive electrical over-load in the body's nervous system. The protein attaches itself to nerve synapses and prevents them from switching off - salivary glands, tear ducts and sweat glands all start running uncontrollably, muscles begin to spasm, blood pressure climbs as blood vessels contract and then falls to dangerously low levels. Ultimately, most funnel web fatalities occur from either cardiac arrest or a condition known as pulmonary oedema, where the capillaries around the lungs begin to leak and the patient effectively drowns. Death can come as quickly as two hours after a bite. (sounds like a very unpleasant way to go, much rather just have my CNS go and put me down fairly quietly, this is like death by an "Ebola Bite") ************************************************************************* From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 5 14:34:59 2004 From: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" To: "'Troutman'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Road Rash Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 14:34:43 -0400 Well said. I ride with my father in law who never wears any gear aside from a 3/4 helmet. I joke around with him and say he better protect that art work I designed for him (tattoos). He knows about the risks and besides my wife gives him grief about not wearing gear. I can't wait till those cicadas come out he'll where gear then. -----Original Message----- From: Troutman [mailto:mike@XXXXXX] Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:57 AM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Road Rash At 11:50 AM 5/5/2004, Paul Wilson wrote: >Dogma and preaching, or "information"? Put the information in their >hands. If they still choose to ignore it, they've made an informed >choice, albeit a poor one. If he rides and he owns a jacket, he has the information already. I'm about to ride to lunch. I'm not wearing my Phoenix pants, just my slacks and Kenya jacket for the two mile trip at low speed. I am aware of the risk, I have the information. Why isn't it 90 and humid yet? This is still DC isn't it? ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles. One who does not know the enemy but knows himself will sometimes win, sometimes lose. One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself will be in danger in every battle. - Sun Tzu From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 5 14:38:10 2004 Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 14:40:48 -0400 To: Aki Damme , dc-cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Screw Taxis..check THIS out. At 01:30 PM 5/5/04 -0400, Aki Damme wrote: >Oh, little did I know that even the Platypus has a toxic >bite, who woulda thunk.. Only those who haven't read carefully about Platypi? They don't have a toxic bite. The males do have a poisonous spur on the rear legs though. I don't believe they ride though. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 5 14:39:42 2004 Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 14:37:14 -0400 To: Tom Gimer , Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: DUI killer skates on most serious charge At 09:34 AM 5/5/04 -0700, Tom Gimer wrote: >--- Mike Bartman wrote: >> Double Jeopardy has to do with being tried twice for the >> *same offense*. > >and, paying a fine often constitutes "being tried." Yes, for the offense one is paying the fine for. Not for other offenses one may or may not have committed. >> Driving drunk, negligent driving, and manslaughter are >> not the same >> offense...though they are often committed simultaneously. > >being convicted of a lesser included offense often bars a >subsequent proceeding based upon the offense which, for >whatever reason, was not charged or pursued. I don't know what often happens. I'm talking about what should be happening. Often the officer at the scene will fail to cite for a given offense. Does that mean that all such offenses should be excused? Of course not. Does pleading guilty to burglary excuse me from a charge of murder of a resident of the dwelling committed as part of that burglary? If not, why should pleading guilty to negligent driving excuse manslaughter? If you say it's because the charges were already brought for the lesser offense, and pled to, what if the murder wasn't discovered until a week after I'd been arrested for the burglary? Any change in the situation? If not, I think we have a loophole that will allow murder to be committed. Just commit it in conjunction with some lesser crime, make sure the murder isn't discovered until after you've been arrested, charged and pled guilty to the lesser charge, and you are home free. "Double Jeopardy" will prevent them from charging you with the murder later on...that's what happened in this case anyway (with different crimes, obviously). The guy wasn't dead at the scene...he died several days later, after the charges for negligent driving had been brought, and the fine paid...and you (and the state authorities) say that this means they can't charge her with her other crimes...this is *wrong*. >> In the Rodney King case the officers were charged with >> things like >> excessive use of force, and found innocent. Then they >> were charged with >> violation of civil rights for the same actions...and >> convicted. If that >> wasn't double jeopardy, then charging this woman with >> manslaughter now >> wouldn't be either. > >is this the rodney king case we're discussing? no? then >the above is a perfect model example of non-responsiveness. Ever hear of "precedent"? The non-statuatory part of the law? The law seems relevant here...too bad those in charge of it aren't doing their jobs very well. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 5 14:48:41 2004 Subject: RE: Road Rash Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 14:52:16 -0400 From: "Julian Halton" To: "Dave Yates" , Voodoo unto others before they voodoo unto you. I have had many a fine conversation with cabbies. On my bike, on the road..any car or plate that remotely resembles a commercial vehicle raises a massive red flag, Prone to sudden stops, open doors, multiple lane changes, u-turns, sudden line shifts. Threat level Alpha..folks. I do my bit at education by always pulling up beside the cab at the traffic light after they have cut me off, nudged me out of my lane or forced an evasive maneuver. I flip my visor up, eye-f^&k the cabbie with a fugazy stare and then say please, PLEASE...WATCH out for motorcycles and then go on my way. -----Original Message----- From: Dave Yates [mailto:Dave@XXXXXX] Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 1:22 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Road Rash Kitchell writes: >Bunch of BABIES! I love DC cabs. If you know the zone system it can >be very beneficial to your wallet. >I know it better than the cabbies. SOme interesting drivers too, many >african doctors, middle eastern professors, etc. I have left many >boring dinner parties only to have engaging intellectual discussions >with the cabbie. [Dave] As a comment and opinion, I would offer that my cab rides around here have been absolutely sedate compared to the one trip I made to Philly for a few days on the company dime. Those cabbies were fearless. Foolhardy in fact. The concierge did manage to land us some more calm drivers on the last day I was there though... I didn't find these guys interesting, I found them to be road menaces... ;-) > >Last interesting ride was with a hatian voodoo practitioner. Don't >cross me. [Dave] Bah ! My voodoo powers are far beyond yours! I've been pinning my Admin's Voodoo doll for about 1 year 5 months now since she got me sick with some form of cold virus. I don't even hide it from anyone. Yes, I do get some furrowed brows, and disapproving scowls, and yes, I should use my powers only for good, but she deserves it! ;-) Dave > > >--- Paul Wilson wrote: >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX >> >> I personally think all hackycab drivers in the DC >> metro area are agents of Satan. Only one out of >> 1000 speaks english, knows where they are going and >> doesn't drive like an asshole. The rest think that >> they own the roads and everyone else, pedestrians on >> the sidewalks also, be damned. I avoid taxis as >> much as possible because of this fact. >> >> Scooter (taxius-avoidicus to the maximus) >> >> -------- >> Yeah, you'd think they'd get better out of sheer >> repetition. As for not knowing where they're going, >> I stepped into a cab in front of my house, and (as >> Dave Barry sez) I swear I'm not making this up, the >> cabbie asks me for the best way to get to National >> Airport. Criminy, you only go there, what, >> fifty-sixty times a week and need directions! ::eye >> roll:: >> >> And don't even get me started on that cockamamie >> zone system that's tailor-made for fleecing clueless >> out of towners. It's a shame they're not all >> yellow, like NYC. It makes 'em easier to spot and >> avoid. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org >> 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] >> > > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs >http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 5 14:53:15 2004 Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 14:50:35 -0400 From: Skip To: DC Cycles Subject: html help as an html n00b, I'm looking for some hep. ping me offlist. --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 5 19:17:02 2004 From: "Rob Sharp" To: "John White" , "DC Cycles" Subject: Re: DUI killer skates on most serious charge Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 19:18:22 -0400 Wrongful death suit huh. I quote: > > Miss Williams had just left work at a Burger King on You probably will spend more in legal fees the you will ever get back. Rob On Wed, 5 May 2004 09:12:42 -0400, John White wrote > That's f**ked up! Wow! She has to pay some how. The family should > file a wrongful death suit against her. Tap into her assets and > insurance or something. I know that won't bring him back, but to > let her just walk away like that.... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dave Yates" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 8:39 AM > Subject: DUI killer skates on most serious charge > > > From today's Times: > > > > DUI driver eludes charge of homicide > > > > > > [UTF-8?]> > ELLICOTT CITY, Md. (AP) )B— An Ellicott City woman who was > > legally drunk when she rear-ended a motorcycle last year, > > killing its rider, faces no more than a year in prison after > > paying a $275 ticket before she could be charged with > > vehicular homicide. > > In essence, Susan Elizabeth Williams, 35, pleaded guilty > > to a lesser charge before a more serious one could be > > leveled. > > > > "She kind of found a crack in the system," State's > > Attorney Timothy J. McCrone said. > > As a result, police issued a memo advising officers not > > to issue tickets for negligent driving in drunken-driving > > cases involving injuries until the case is reviewed. > > Miss Williams had faced several charges, including > > driving while intoxicated and vehicular homicide, in the > > death of Dennis Jerry Sullivan, 42, a mechanic and father of > > two. > > Miss Williams had just left work at a Burger King on > > Baltimore National Pike when she crashed into Mr. Sullivan. > > Officers tested her on the scene, decided she was intoxicated > > and arrested her, police spokesman Richard Malcolm said. > > But because Mr. Sullivan did not appear critically [UTF-8?]> > injured )B— although he was taken to a hospital complaining of [UTF-8?]> > back injuries )B— the investigating officer did not call the > > traffic investigation division, which would have been the > > routine in accidents involving serious injuries, Mr. Malcolm > > said. > > The officer charged Miss Williams with several citations > > related to the accident, including negligent driving. > > Mr. Sullivan died of internal injuries days later, and > > prosecutors filed papers to drop the lesser counts. > > In the meantime, Miss Williams had paid the $275 fine for > > negligent driving. > > A Circuit Court judge agreed and dropped the vehicular > > homicide charge against Miss Williams on April 1. On Monday, > > she pleaded not guilty to driving under the influence but > > waived her right to a trial, and Judge Dennis Sweeney found > > her guilty. > > Sentencing was set for July 7. > > > > Dave Yates > > > > -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 5 20:50:26 2004 Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 20:48:30 -0400 Subject: Blogs Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX To: RichardW@XXXXXX From: Bob McKeithen Check www.horizonsunlimited. Very dense, a little difficult to get the hang of navigation, but TONS of info. Bob From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 5 22:00:19 2004 Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 21:58:23 -0400 Subject: Riders/owners--mileage bragging rights From: Bob McKeithen To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I classify motorcyclists into two groups-- Riders or Owners. And it not entirely a matter of miles--its more a matter of attitude. That said, below find a few suggestions--feel free to add yours You Are a Rider if: You ride the bike any chance you get From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 5 22:04:23 2004 From: "John White" To: "DC Cycles" , "Mark Kitchell" Subject: Re: DUI killer skates on most serious charge Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 22:04:13 -0400 Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 5 May 2004 22:04:14 -0400 X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original Just because she's a drunk working at Burger King doesn't mean she has no insurance or assets. Sure you can surmise that, but she could be a manager, own a home and the like. You just can't assume. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Kitchell" To: "John White" ; "DC Cycles" Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 9:16 AM Subject: Re: DUI killer skates on most serious charge > I doubt there are too many assets if she worked at > Burger King. That is SO screwed up. Even regular DUI > convicts get much more penalties than that. > > > --- John White wrote: > > That's f**ked up! Wow! She has to pay some how. > > The family should file a > > wrongful death suit against her. Tap into her > > assets and insurance or > > something. I know that won't bring him back, but to > > let her just walk away > > like that.... > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Dave Yates" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 8:39 AM > > Subject: DUI killer skates on most serious charge > > > > > > > From today's Times: > > > > > > DUI driver eludes charge of homicide > > > > > > > > > > > > ELLICOTT CITY, Md. (AP) b An Ellicott City woman > > who was > > > legally drunk when she rear-ended a motorcycle > > last year, > > > killing its rider, faces no more than a year in > > prison after > > > paying a $275 ticket before she could be charged > > with > > > vehicular homicide. > > > In essence, Susan Elizabeth Williams, 35, > > pleaded guilty > > > to a lesser charge before a more serious one could > > be > > > leveled. > > > > > > "She kind of found a crack in the system," > > State's > > > Attorney Timothy J. McCrone said. > > > As a result, police issued a memo advising > > officers not > > > to issue tickets for negligent driving in > > drunken-driving > > > cases involving injuries until the case is > > reviewed. > > > Miss Williams had faced several charges, > > including > > > driving while intoxicated and vehicular homicide, > > in the > > > death of Dennis Jerry Sullivan, 42, a mechanic and > > father of > > > two. > > > Miss Williams had just left work at a Burger > > King on > > > Baltimore National Pike when she crashed into Mr. > > Sullivan. > > > Officers tested her on the scene, decided she was > > intoxicated > > > and arrested her, police spokesman Richard Malcolm > > said. > > > But because Mr. Sullivan did not appear > > critically > > > injured b although he was taken to a hospital > > complaining of > > > back injuries b the investigating officer did > > not call the > > > traffic investigation division, which would have > > been the > > > routine in accidents involving serious injuries, > > Mr. Malcolm > > > said. > > > The officer charged Miss Williams with several > > citations > > > related to the accident, including negligent > > driving. > > > Mr. Sullivan died of internal injuries days > > later, and > > > prosecutors filed papers to drop the lesser > > counts. > > > In the meantime, Miss Williams had paid the > > $275 fine for > > > negligent driving. > > > A Circuit Court judge agreed and dropped the > > vehicular > > > homicide charge against Miss Williams on April 1. > > On Monday, > > > she pleaded not guilty to driving under the > > influence but > > > waived her right to a trial, and Judge Dennis > > Sweeney found > > > her guilty. > > > Sentencing was set for July 7. > > > > > > Dave Yates > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 5 23:28:49 2004 Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 20:28:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Quick note from Colorado To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX After two weeks, our internet is back up. 450 or so messages in the dc-cycles group alone. A quick note and then back to getting caught up. Colorado biking observations: There are a lot of folks out here riding. Maybe it's because I'm riding more these past couple of days. There's about a 2/3'rds majority of cruisers out here and about 85% of both kinds ride lidless and gearless. It doesn't seem to matter what kind of bike. I saw a Beemer with a large (Paul Sr:OCC sized) guy in a wife-beater. I keep seeing an older guy (sunglasses, merchant marine leather cap, leather jacket, walrus mustache) on a little 250 Kawasaki sport bike. Just a little mental shift there. Traffic is unbelievable, probably due to the grid pattern of the streets. There's no funneling of traffic into a main road. Traffic can filter to their destination with a minimum of fuss. I rode my bike across town to drop off the Budget key between 2:30 and 4:30 (took an hour to get there) and I only had to stop at the occasional light. No double waits. I was able to avoid the main commuter route (25N) and they didn't have to put up with cross-town traffic. And before someone mentions it, I know Denver built the roads some years after the roads back East were built. Another nice feature is the cross streets with traffic lights have the street signs back-lit at night. Rita and I are planning our first overnight trip some time next week hopefully. I'll post the trip when we get back. After experiencing it again, I have to agree. It's not the heat (88 degrees today), it's the humidity (10% or so). Later, Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 6 02:42:53 2004 Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 02:43:23 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Cute super-squid? Talk about lack of proper equipment: http://www.diablosundevils.com/members_public/pages/Motorcycle_0005_NM_vera. htm That's *motorcycle riding* equipment anyway... -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 6 07:32:09 2004 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Quick note from Colorado Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 07:31:54 -0400 123, just inside the beltway there is one of these. >From: Carl Schelin >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Quick note from Colorado >Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 20:28:46 -0700 (PDT) > >Another nice feature is the cross streets with traffic lights have the >street signs back-lit at night. _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee)B® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 6 08:34:00 2004 Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 08:33:52 -0400 From: "Chris Norloff" Reply-To: To: Subject: Re: Cute super-squid? Guess I'll have to try that one from home ... here I got a "Access denied because of inappropriate content - Lifestyle, Nudity" :-) Chris Norloff ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Mike Bartman Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 02:43:23 -0400 >Talk about lack of proper equipment: > >http://www.diablosundevils.com/members_public/pages/Motorcycle_0005_NM_vera. >htm > >That's *motorcycle riding* equipment anyway... > > >-- Mike B. > >'04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) > >Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes >is better. > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 6 08:46:43 2004 Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 05:46:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Ray Subject: Re: Cute super-squid? To: DC Cycles Yeah, you will. I actually made it to the site, from my work computer. Whoops. In the future, please note "not work-safe" for similar material.... Thanks, Brian --- Chris Norloff wrote: > Guess I'll have to try that one from home ... here I > got a > > "Access denied because of inappropriate content - > Lifestyle, Nudity" > > :-) > Chris Norloff > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 6 09:26:10 2004 From: "Michael Jordan" To: Subject: RE: Cute super-squid? Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 09:26:02 -0400 > Guess I'll have to try that one from home ... here I got a > "Access denied because of inappropriate content - Lifestyle, Nudity" Site has the word "Nude" in the banner. Pic was pretty tame (it's AMAZING how much coverage a Gold Wing mirror provides). Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 6 09:29:08 2004 From: "Michael Jordan" To: Subject: RE: Quick note from Colorado Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 09:28:59 -0400 > Rita and I are planning our first overnight trip some time > next week hopefully. I'll post the trip when we get back. Don't forget to go to Fairplay and get the obligatory picture of Mr. Hanky at South Park Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 6 09:36:15 2004 From: "Michael Jordan" To: Subject: RE: Blogs Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 09:36:05 -0400 Two lovely sites to spend a rainy day at are: www.alpineroads.com - maintained by a couple of Brits. Perhaps a bit exotic, but what the hey. www.advrider.com - lotsa stuff - mainly focused at the BMW GS crowd, but a good overall representation and did I say LOTS of stuff? Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 6 09:58:02 2004 From: Stephen Miller Subject: Re: Blogs Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 09:58:18 -0400 To: DC-Cycles I'm a fan of the blue-haired, red SV650S-riding Carolyn of http://bluepoof.blogs.com On May 6, 2004, at 9:36 AM, Michael Jordan wrote: > Two lovely sites to spend a rainy day at are: > > www.alpineroads.com - maintained by a couple of Brits. Perhaps a bit > exotic, > but what the hey. > > www.advrider.com - lotsa stuff - mainly focused at the BMW GS crowd, > but a > good overall representation and did I say LOTS of stuff? > > Michael J. > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 6 10:25:50 2004 Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 07:25:40 -0700 (PDT) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: RE: Quick note from Colorado To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Don't forget to go to Fairplay and get the obligatory picture of Mr. Hanky > at South Park Where -- at the official "South Park" trailer? -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 6 11:43:05 2004 Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 08:42:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: RE: Quick note from Colorado To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- rich hall wrote: > 123, just inside the beltway there is one of these. > I hadn't seen one before even though I've been through Denver a couple of times. It certainly makes a difference at night while riding. Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 6 11:43:33 2004 Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 08:43:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: RE: Quick note from Colorado To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Michael Jordan wrote: > > Rita and I are planning our first overnight trip some time > > next week hopefully. I'll post the trip when we get back. > > Don't forget to go to Fairplay and get the obligatory picture of Mr. > Hanky > at South Park (makes a note) :-) Thanks, I'll check that out. > > Michael J. > Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 6 12:37:29 2004 Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 12:34:39 -0400 From: Skip To: Michael Jordan CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Cute super-squid? Michael Jordan wrote: > > > Guess I'll have to try that one from home ... here I got a > > "Access denied because of inappropriate content - Lifestyle, Nudity" > > Site has the word "Nude" in the banner. Pic was pretty tame (it's AMAZING > how much coverage a Gold Wing mirror provides). > > Michael J. I'll go one step further and say that the site was completely tame, inasmuch as you cannot see **anything**. now I just needs me a uid/pw From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 6 13:20:42 2004 Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 10:20:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Leon Begeman Subject: Re: Riders/owners--mileage bragging rights To: Bob McKeithen , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Damn, the very first item on what appears to be an interesting thread and I'm already kicked out of the rider category and relegated to simply an owner. After riding home from work last night, I mowed the lawn instead of going riding. Leon Ninja 250 Owner. --- Bob McKeithen wrote: > I classify motorcyclists into two groups-- Riders or > Owners. And it not > entirely a matter of miles--its more a matter of > attitude. That said, > below find a few suggestions--feel free to add yours > > You Are a Rider if: > > You ride the bike any chance you get > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 6 14:32:58 2004 Subject: Friday lunch RV -Shirlington Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 14:36:27 -0400 From: "Julian Halton" To: "Leon Begeman" , "Bob McKeithen" , Tomorrow, I am going to ride over to Carlisle Grand in Shirlington for lunch. There is ample parking and it should be a beautiful day. Anyone that feels like coming out for a lunch is welcome to join me. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 6 14:40:03 2004 Subject: RE: Friday lunch RV -Shirlington Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 14:43:36 -0400 From: "Julian Halton" To: I should arrive 12:15pm. -----Original Message----- From: Julian Halton [mailto:julian@XXXXXX] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 2:36 PM To: Leon Begeman; Bob McKeithen; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Friday lunch RV -Shirlington Tomorrow, I am going to ride over to Carlisle Grand in Shirlington for lunch. There is ample parking and it should be a beautiful day. Anyone that feels like coming out for a lunch is welcome to join me. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 6 15:32:15 2004 Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 15:30:36 -0400 From: "Steven C. Di Pietro" To: DC Cycles Subject: Selling a MC X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out011.verizon.net from [151.196.186.205] at Thu, 6 May 2004 14:32:12 -0500 Hi all, I need to quickly sell my 96 Suzuki Katana 600. I live in Maryland. What's the best place to advertise for a quick turn around. Steven C. Di Pietro Interim National Director The Suzuki Owners Club -USA 16 W. Jeffrey Street Baltimore Md. 21225-1713 http://www.soc-usa.org 1996 Suzuki Katana 600 2001 Suzuki Marauder 800 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 6 15:34:33 2004 Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 12:34:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Bryce Subject: Re: Selling a MC To: DC Cycles One national place is: http://katanaplanet.com Good luck, Bryce --- "Steven C. Di Pietro" wrote: > Hi all, > I need to quickly sell my 96 Suzuki > Katana 600. I live in > Maryland. What's the best place to advertise for a > quick turn around. > > Steven C. Di Pietro > Interim National Director > The Suzuki Owners Club -USA > 16 W. Jeffrey Street > Baltimore Md. 21225-1713 > http://www.soc-usa.org > 1996 Suzuki Katana 600 > 2001 Suzuki Marauder 800 > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 6 15:37:12 2004 Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 12:36:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Ray Subject: Re: Selling a MC To: "Steven C. Di Pietro" , DC Cycles Stephen - You might try Craigslist (the DC Section) - www.craigslist.com - it has free listings for most everything, including a motorcycle section. You might also try both DCSportbikes.com & DCSportbikes.net Brian --- "Steven C. Di Pietro" wrote: > Hi all, > I need to quickly sell my 96 Suzuki > Katana 600. I live in > Maryland. What's the best place to advertise for a > quick turn around. > > Steven C. Di Pietro > Interim National Director > The Suzuki Owners Club -USA > 16 W. Jeffrey Street > Baltimore Md. 21225-1713 > http://www.soc-usa.org > 1996 Suzuki Katana 600 > 2001 Suzuki Marauder 800 > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 6 15:37:30 2004 From: "Sean Steele" To: "DC Cycles" Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 15:37:14 -0400 Subject: Re: Selling a MC Cycle Trader, definitely: www.cycletrader.com -Sean Bryce wrote: > One national place is: > > http://katanaplanet.com > > Good luck, > > Bryce > --- "Steven C. Di Pietro" > wrote: > >>Hi all, >> I need to quickly sell my 96 Suzuki >>Katana 600. I live in >>Maryland. What's the best place to advertise for a >>quick turn around. >> >>Steven C. Di Pietro >>Interim National Director >>The Suzuki Owners Club -USA >>16 W. Jeffrey Street >>Baltimore Md. 21225-1713 >>http://www.soc-usa.org >>1996 Suzuki Katana 600 >>2001 Suzuki Marauder 800 >> >> >> > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 6 15:37:34 2004 Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 12:37:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Adam Reinhardt Subject: Re: Selling a MC To: "Steven C. Di Pietro" , DC Cycles Probably e-Bay. Take a look to see what other Katanas are selling for on eBay and if you'd be happy with that, then list it. --- "Steven C. Di Pietro" wrote: > Hi all, > I need to quickly sell my 96 Suzuki > Katana 600. I live in > Maryland. What's the best place to advertise for a > quick turn around. > > Steven C. Di Pietro > Interim National Director > The Suzuki Owners Club -USA > 16 W. Jeffrey Street > Baltimore Md. 21225-1713 > http://www.soc-usa.org > 1996 Suzuki Katana 600 > 2001 Suzuki Marauder 800 > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 6 15:38:16 2004 Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 15:37:48 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: "Steven C. Di Pietro" , DC Cycles Subject: Re: Selling a MC -----Original Message----- From: "Steven C. Di Pietro" Hi all, I need to quickly sell my 96 Suzuki Katana 600. I live in Maryland. What's the best place to advertise for a quick turn around. Steven C. Di Pietro ---- Try www.craigslist.org. I had calls within the first day when I sold my VF500F. Newbie-type bikes esp., seem to get snapped up quickly. It's also has the advantage of being free. Craigslist has separate lists for Warshington and Balmer. http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mcy/ http://baltimore.craigslist.org/mcy/ Balmer doesn't seem to have much traffic. Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 6 15:39:00 2004 Subject: RE: Selling a MC Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 15:42:31 -0400 From: "Julian Halton" To: "Steven C. Di Pietro" , "DC Cycles" Here www.ebay.com www.cycletrader.com Take some good digital pics, give it a fair price and you should have no problemo -----Original Message----- From: Steven C. Di Pietro [mailto:steven.dipietro@XXXXXX] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 3:31 PM To: DC Cycles Subject: Selling a MC Hi all, I need to quickly sell my 96 Suzuki Katana 600. I live in Maryland. What's the best place to advertise for a quick turn around. Steven C. Di Pietro Interim National Director The Suzuki Owners Club -USA 16 W. Jeffrey Street Baltimore Md. 21225-1713 http://www.soc-usa.org 1996 Suzuki Katana 600 2001 Suzuki Marauder 800 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 6 15:40:32 2004 Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 12:40:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Adam Reinhardt Subject: Re: Selling a MC To: "Steven C. Di Pietro" , DC Cycles I recently tried to sell a GS500 and after two people committed to buy and then backed out, I put it on eBay. I ended up getting $75 less than my original asking price, which was fine with me. No more showing the bike to guys who had to ask where the brake was. Adam --- "Steven C. Di Pietro" wrote: > Hi all, > I need to quickly sell my 96 Suzuki > Katana 600. I live in > Maryland. What's the best place to advertise for a > quick turn around. > > Steven C. Di Pietro > Interim National Director > The Suzuki Owners Club -USA > 16 W. Jeffrey Street > Baltimore Md. 21225-1713 > http://www.soc-usa.org > 1996 Suzuki Katana 600 > 2001 Suzuki Marauder 800 > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 6 15:46:45 2004 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Selling a MC Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 15:38:32 -0400 Ebay. >From: "Steven C. Di Pietro" >To: DC Cycles >Subject: Selling a MC >Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 15:30:36 -0400 > >Hi all, > I need to quickly sell my 96 Suzuki Katana 600. I live in >Maryland. What's the best place to advertise for a quick turn around. > >Steven C. Di Pietro >Interim National Director >The Suzuki Owners Club -USA >16 W. Jeffrey Street >Baltimore Md. 21225-1713 >http://www.soc-usa.org >1996 Suzuki Katana 600 >2001 Suzuki Marauder 800 > > > _________________________________________________________________ Stop worrying about overloading your inbox - get MSN Hotmail Extra Storage! http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=hotmail/es2&ST=1/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 6 15:48:11 2004 From: "Rob Keiser" To: steven.dipietro@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Selling a MC Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 15:36:58 -0400 The Washington Post, would get my vote. They usually have some 3 day, 3 line specials...best days are Friday/Sat/Sunday, but need to be in by like 6 PM a couple days before. Sold my last bike and 2 cars that way. YMMV. Good luck. Rob '98 VFR800 From: "Steven C. Di Pietro" To: DC Cycles Subject: Selling a MC Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 15:30:36 -0400 Hi all, I need to quickly sell my 96 Suzuki Katana 600. I live in Maryland. What's the best place to advertise for a quick turn around. Steven C. Di Pietro Interim National Director The Suzuki Owners Club -USA 16 W. Jeffrey Street Baltimore Md. 21225-1713 http://www.soc-usa.org 1996 Suzuki Katana 600 2001 Suzuki Marauder 800 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 6 15:50:17 2004 Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 15:47:56 -0400 To: , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Cute super-squid? At 08:33 AM 5/6/04 -0400, Chris Norloff wrote: >Guess I'll have to try that one from home ... here I got a > >"Access denied because of inappropriate content - >Lifestyle, Nudity" > >:-) >Chris Norloff Why is that blocked? I can understand them blocking porn sites, but nudity isn't porn. I guess whoever runs your system is like the folks at AOL who set up a system that blocked porn groups by keyword. The "Breast Cancer Survivor's Forum" weren't at all pleased to be informed that they were a porn site due to the use of the word "breast"...no word on how Frank Purdue handled the situation... Americans are so...immature...at times (most polite term I can think of that seems to apply). I wonder what it would take to get counselling for enough people here to get the country to lighten up a bit and use some common sense? -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 6 15:50:30 2004 Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 15:50:18 -0400 To: Brian Ray , DC Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Cute super-squid? What constitutes "not work safe"?? That picture was pretty tame. I've seen worse on prime time TV, in the ads for shampoo and bath products. What kind of foaming at the mouth prudes do you work for anyway?? -- Mike B. At 05:46 AM 5/6/04 -0700, Brian Ray wrote: >Yeah, you will. I actually made it to the site, from >my work computer. Whoops. > >In the future, please note "not work-safe" for similar >material.... > >Thanks, > >Brian > >--- Chris Norloff wrote: >> Guess I'll have to try that one from home ... here I >> got a >> >> "Access denied because of inappropriate content - >> Lifestyle, Nudity" >> >> :-) >> Chris Norloff >> >> > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs >http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 6 15:54:43 2004 Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 15:54:34 -0400 To: Leon Begeman , Bob McKeithen , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Riders/owners--mileage bragging rights At 10:20 AM 5/6/04 -0700, Leon Begeman wrote: >Damn, the very first item on what appears to be an >interesting thread and I'm already kicked out of the >rider category and relegated to simply an owner. > >After riding home from work last night, I mowed the >lawn instead of going riding. Mine needed mowing too, but I used the excuse that it got rained on at 5pm to go for some 100 mile ice cream up in Reisterstown with the HOGs last night. It still needs cutting, and it's drying out, but I think the bike needs another trip...we'll see. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 6 17:29:30 2004 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Selling a MC Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 17:18:57 -0400 I had very little reponse in June from an ad in the Post last yr. Seca II, same people would probably be looking at a Katana. Put it on EBay w/ a reserve. Didn't make reserve, negotiated w/ the highest bidder. $50 less I wanted, think it cost $50 to list on Ebay. So $100 less than I wanted. I sold random stock parts off it on Ebay to get that $100 back. >From: "Rob Keiser" >To: steven.dipietro@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: RE: Selling a MC >Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 15:36:58 -0400 > >The Washington Post, would get my vote. > >They usually have some 3 day, 3 line specials...best days are >Friday/Sat/Sunday, but need to be in by like 6 PM a couple days before. >Sold my last bike and 2 cars that way. YMMV. > >Good luck. > >Rob >'98 VFR800 > > >From: "Steven C. Di Pietro" >To: DC Cycles >Subject: Selling a MC >Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 15:30:36 -0400 > >Hi all, > I need to quickly sell my 96 Suzuki Katana 600. I live in >Maryland. What's the best place to advertise for a quick turn around. > >Steven C. Di Pietro >Interim National Director >The Suzuki Owners Club -USA >16 W. Jeffrey Street >Baltimore Md. 21225-1713 >http://www.soc-usa.org >1996 Suzuki Katana 600 >2001 Suzuki Marauder 800 > > _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with the new version of MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 6 17:29:43 2004 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Cute super-squid? Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 17:19:37 -0400 Most of work in offices not our home. >From: Mike Bartman >To: Brian Ray , DC Cycles >Subject: Re: Cute super-squid? >Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 15:50:18 -0400 > >What constitutes "not work safe"?? That picture was pretty tame. I've >seen worse on prime time TV, in the ads for shampoo and bath products. >What kind of foaming at the mouth prudes do you work for anyway?? > >-- Mike B. > >At 05:46 AM 5/6/04 -0700, Brian Ray wrote: > >Yeah, you will. I actually made it to the site, from > >my work computer. Whoops. > > > >In the future, please note "not work-safe" for similar > >material.... > > > >Thanks, > > > >Brian > > > >--- Chris Norloff wrote: > >> Guess I'll have to try that one from home ... here I > >> got a > >> > >> "Access denied because of inappropriate content - > >> Lifestyle, Nudity" > >> _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee)B® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 6 18:23:27 2004 Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 18:23:25 -0400 To: "rich hall" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Cute super-squid? So? I used to work in an office, but that picture wouldn't have caused a stir there, or been banned by the software we ran. Everyone who worked there was an adult, so there wasn't any need for such censorship. Just trying to figure out what will need a "caution, not work safe!" label on it. Someone screwing goats I'd have figured needed a warning anywhere outside the Iran, but something that could appear on prime time TV, and which wouldn't have been a problem at places I've worked in the past, didn't seem to warrant one...but you think it did, so I'm looking for some guidelines. What will cause you problems at work? What was it about that URL that caused the problem? The title? The picture of a woman "wearing" a tour bike rather than cloth or leather? The purpose of the site it appeared on? What? There's nothing about that URL or what it leads to that I see any problem with, and I'd have no concern pointing any of my friends (male, female, married, single, or otherwise) to it. Your worksite obviously has a different culture, so some hints as to what it will have problems with would be useful if you want warnings in future. -- Mike B. At 05:19 PM 5/6/04 -0400, rich hall wrote: >Most of work in offices not our home. > >>From: Mike Bartman >> >>What constitutes "not work safe"?? That picture was pretty tame. I've >>seen worse on prime time TV, in the ads for shampoo and bath products. >>What kind of foaming at the mouth prudes do you work for anyway?? >> >>-- Mike B. >> >>At 05:46 AM 5/6/04 -0700, Brian Ray wrote: >> >Yeah, you will. I actually made it to the site, from >> >my work computer. Whoops. >> > >> >In the future, please note "not work-safe" for similar >> >material.... >> > >> >Thanks, >> > >> >Brian From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 6 18:33:43 2004 From: "Michael Jordan" To: Subject: RE: Cute super-squid? Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 18:33:34 -0400 In all probability, the word "nude" triggered the rejection. Undoubtedly one of many words that would have the same result. Perhaps even "goat" Michael "Who's your D-a-a-a-a-a-a-dy" J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 6 19:00:04 2004 Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 19:00:20 -0400 To: "Michael Jordan" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: Cute super-squid? At 06:33 PM 5/6/04 -0400, Michael Jordan wrote: >In all probability, the word "nude" triggered the rejection. Undoubtedly one >of many words that would have the same result. > >Perhaps even "goat" Yeah, given the human mind's fixation on sex, *anything* can be made into a suggestive word. Steve Alan used to do that to have fun with the censors when he was host of the Tonight Show (before Johnny Carson...who was before Jay Leno). He'd do things like look through the yellow pages to see if anything humorous turned up. One time he found a "Big A Cleaners" listing, so he called them up and asked, "How much to get my "Big A" cleaned?" and the audience broke up, because they knew what he was implying, and that the censors had just been circumvented. The Grease Man turned that into an art form on his shows...he had a whole dictionary of words that he'd made up, but everyone listening to his show (the adults anyway) knew exactly what they meant from context...but they weren't on the FCC's banned list of things you can't say and keep your license. -- Mike B. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 6 19:04:24 2004 From: "Rob Keiser" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Cute super-squid? Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 19:04:16 -0400 Who gives a crap?! Bikes, people, bikes! If you're not going to be out riding, at least talk about them. From: Mike Bartman To: "Michael Jordan" , Subject: RE: Cute super-squid? Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 19:00:20 -0400 At 06:33 PM 5/6/04 -0400, Michael Jordan wrote: >In all probability, the word "nude" triggered the rejection. Undoubtedly one >of many words that would have the same result. > >Perhaps even "goat" Yeah, given the human mind's fixation on sex, *anything* can be made into a suggestive word. Steve Alan used to do that to have fun with the censors when he was host of the Tonight Show (before Johnny Carson...who was before Jay Leno). He'd do things like look through the yellow pages to see if anything humorous turned up. One time he found a "Big A Cleaners" listing, so he called them up and asked, "How much to get my "Big A" cleaned?" and the audience broke up, because they knew what he was implying, and that the censors had just been circumvented. The Grease Man turned that into an art form on his shows...he had a whole dictionary of words that he'd made up, but everyone listening to his show (the adults anyway) knew exactly what they meant from context...but they weren't on the FCC's banned list of things you can't say and keep your license. -- Mike B. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 6 20:02:18 2004 Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 20:01:54 -0400 From: Dale Horstman To: Leon Begeman CC: Bob McKeithen , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Riders/owners--mileage bragging rights Leon Begeman wrote: > Damn, the very first item on what appears to be an > interesting thread and I'm already kicked out of the > rider category and relegated to simply an owner. > > After riding home from work last night, I mowed the > lawn instead of going riding. Leon is a poser. :) Hork -- Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark) Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX '98 Concours - BugSlayer Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth '99 Concours - Grape Nehi CM #001 NRA IBA COG '82 GS850G - Neat old bike The Mason Dixon 20-20 Endurance Rally: The Games People Play Come join us in 2004: http://www.masondixon20-20.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 6 23:40:10 2004 Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 20:40:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Re: Dressing for the crash To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- adamme1@XXXXXX wrote: > Laura, > > What surprises me is the Harley crowd. We spend upwards of > $25k for a bike and then bitch about how much synthetic > oil changes and maintenance cost. > $14k and $420 or so for fluid changes is still fricking expensive :-) BTW, the Harley is in the shop for the 30k. It seems to like the shop for each of the 10k marks 10k: Oil leaking from cam cover. Upon QA, they discovered a problem in the timing area (mismatched shim; caused mucho damage and a 6 week wait) 20k: Security module failure. Had to truck it to the dealer. Found a fuel cell problem that took two visits to fix. It took so long that I briefly forgot how to start the bike (!) 30k: Fork leak at the top of the left fork, probably due to the construction at Springfield since the Suzuki has a leaking right fork. It also has a engine issue; the check engine light goes out, I start, it comes back on for about 5 seconds and then goes away. I'm thinking it's the difference between sea-level and mile-high; possibly an EFI adjustment. > -aki > Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 7 00:04:30 2004 Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 21:04:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: tars... local and online To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 01:51 PM 4/28/04 -0400, ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: > >Ummmm.......non-Harley rims actually get used and need the tires > replaced > more than every 10 years? ;-) Sorry, couldn't resist. > > > >Scooter (ducking and running) > > Yeah, you'd better run, if you don't want over half a ton of motorcycle > and > rider running over you for remarks like that! :-) > > As for riding then, how many miles did *you* get logged since last > October? *I* got 7 or 8k I think. It was at the 20k mark after getting back from Boise in August. I put a K or so on before it died (security module) and I'm at 29.8k now so figure 22k or so in September. > Despite the first few weeks being spent in the local neighborhood and > parking lots getting used to riding again, I've got a bit over 2600 > miles > since then. That's not a huge total for some, but it *was* winter for > most > of it... And a fine winter it was. Nine degree coldest riding temp in January and 8 degree for last year (17 degree for the previous year). > > -- Mike B. Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 7 00:58:00 2004 From: "Rob Sharp" To: "Michael Jordan" , Subject: RE: Cute super-squid? Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 00:59:19 -0400 There are giant databases of URLS that are classified for sale by companies like websense and surf control. I have setup system as restrictive as to only allow access to certain sites, cut off web surfing after 15 continous minutes, ect ect... (job related). The systems I have worked with are based totally off URL and keywords in the URL. And the have people who just look for bad URL's all day (college students, ect) and catagorize them. All I know is I wouldn't want to show up on a report accesing a nudist site. At the very least it's embaressing and the worst it could get you fired. So just put the little warning on the email ok? Rob On Thu, 6 May 2004 18:33:34 -0400, Michael Jordan wrote > In all probability, the word "nude" triggered the rejection. > Undoubtedly one of many words that would have the same result. > > Perhaps even "goat" > > Michael "Who's your D-a-a-a-a-a-a-dy" J. -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 7 00:58:24 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 00:38:52 EDT Subject: Not moto related, just theater To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX It seems to me that there was someone(s) on this list that was into live theater. If so could you ping me offlist. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 7 01:00:15 2004 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Mike Bartman , , Subject: Re: Cute super-squid? Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 00:49:26 -0400 American's are litigious and cheap. Companies block that stuff for employees to save from getting sued somehow and to increase productive. It *AINT* cause we are immature. Except maybe in cases like it being blocked in the library but then again library's don't stock playboys either :) Regards, Rob On Thu, 06 May 2004 15:47:56 -0400, Mike Bartman wrote > At 08:33 AM 5/6/04 -0400, Chris Norloff wrote: > >Guess I'll have to try that one from home ... here I got a > > > >"Access denied because of inappropriate content - > >Lifestyle, Nudity" > > > >:-) > >Chris Norloff > > Why is that blocked? I can understand them blocking porn sites, but > nudity isn't porn. I guess whoever runs your system is like the > folks at AOL who set up a system that blocked porn groups by > keyword. The "Breast Cancer Survivor's Forum" weren't at all > pleased to be informed that they were a porn site due to the use of > the word "breast"...no word on how Frank Purdue handled the situation... > > Americans are so...immature...at times (most polite term I can think > of that seems to apply). I wonder what it would take to get > counselling for enough people here to get the country to lighten up > a bit and use some common sense? > > -- Mike B. > > '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non- > Harley folks) > > Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes > is better. -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 7 01:07:30 2004 Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 21:40:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: RE Mileage Bragging Rights To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Doug Allis wrote: > You guys are really long distance motorcycle WIMPS! 1200 miles, 2,400 > miles > or 5,000 miles a year? Don't talk to me about being a real rider until > you > approach 10,000 miles a year. I have ~30k starting in June of 2002. Rides to The Dragon and Idaho are probably 10k of the total with various smaller rides adding to another 5k and not including the 5k or so I put on the gixxer while the Harley was in the shop ;-) > Q: Which form of transportation do you > prefer > when you are alone and rain is likely? For riding to work and home? Probably the Suzuki although I've put some wet miles on the Harley. That's mainly helmet dynamics though. If I could keep the rain from getting in my eyes on the Harley I might lean in that direction more often. Other than the ride to work, probably the car mainly cause it's for a short ride to 7/11 or Home Depot and it's too much trouble to get dressed up for a short ride. > If it is a car, you are not > really a > high mileage rider (unless you live in a desert). Are you comfortable > riding > your bike in heavy rain? If not then you ought to think about how > serious a > rider you really are. Absolutely. That's some of the funner riding IMO. > > Me? 59,800 miles since May 1999 on my "new" bike. Before that I never > really > bothered to keep track, but 10,000 miles a year is prob a fair guess for > > 1993-1999. I now do "slightly" less than 12,000 miles a year average. > > Most in one year... close to 15,000, when I rode the Blue Ridge Parkway > and > Skyline Drive down to the dragon, then over to Carolina Beach, back to > DC on > the same route, and then two trips up and around the Finger Lakes in NY > over > some long weekends and a vacation. I want to run around the great lakes again. I just hit the top side and only lightly. A more sedate pace this time would be nicer. Perhaps with Rita on her bike and after the ride from here to Boise -> Seattle -> San Francisco -> Las Vegas -> Tuscon -> home in August. I want to show Rita the coast highway :-) > My PC-800 Is that the Honda 750cc scooter? That's the first picture that popped up for PC-800 with a review on a follow up link. > likes long twisty rides > the > most, but is comfy enough for the boringest highways that we all have to > > deal with sometime. The best part is that the seat is comfy for up to 4 > > hours at a time, with only streach breaks, the second best part... 4,000 > > miles on the thing without doing anything but check the oil and air > pressure. True tist not the sportiest bike, but it is one that grows on > you > as you pile on the miles. The Corbin seat makes for a pretty nice and comfortable ride. I did have to replace about a quart and a half of oil on the Harley but never any problems with air in the tires. Course I had Avons put on prior to the ride so maybe new tires had something to do with it. > > Oh, and compared to others that own this bike, I'm a wimp. There are > guys > on the PCcycles list that have put over 200,000 miles on this bike.... > in > about 10 years. I'm working on it. Give me some time ;-) > Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 7 01:20:08 2004 Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 21:20:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: tars... local and online To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 04:38 AM 4/29/04 -0700, Tom Gimer wrote: > >--- Mike Bartman wrote: > >as for carl, we all know he commuted ~100 miles per day. > >should we worship him for choosing an h-d over an econobox? > > Sounds like a plan. > 60 miles per day. And I enjoyed every minute of it (well, except when the security module crapped out and we had to push it up in to the truck in the pouring rain, on the plus side, I got to leave work early :-) Let's see how I do now that I'm on a lengthy vacation ;-) > -- Mike B. Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 7 07:09:56 2004 From: "W.S." To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: Riders/owners--mileage bragging rights Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 07:09:34 -0400 For those who wish to make motorcycle-clan official the length of their, er, uh, mileage, the AMA has "Long Rider" patches and decals. (My 50K decal has "Emeritus" at the bottom which issuance is said to be shortlived. But! As long as I have it, add another set of initials after my name?) http://www.amadirectlink.com/roadride/mileage.asp Bill S. / DC '99 VN750 > Put an odo on your forehead, dummy. Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 7 07:31:15 2004 Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 21:24:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: OT: Emoticons (was: Re: tars... local and online) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Dave Yates wrote: > > >Oh, and a free clue for you: the ":-)" sequence is called > >a "smiley". It indicates that the statement made is not > >intended seriously. Note that there isn't one on this > >response. > > [Dave] Well... You get what you pay for. :-) The above > ascii reference is more correctly referred to as > an "emoticon", but in slang, 'smiley' is acceptable in some > cases... However, this emoticon :-( is not a smiley... (is > it a frownie?) It's trademarked. See http://www.despair.com for the full story. I think they're charging 5 bucks for the use of the "frownie" in e-mail. > Dave Yates Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 7 09:52:08 2004 Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 09:48:51 -0400 From: Skip To: Mike Bartman CC: Michael Jordan , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Cute super-squid? Mike Bartman wrote: > The Grease Man turned that into an art form on his shows...he had a whole > dictionary of words that he'd made up, but everyone listening to his show > (the adults anyway) knew exactly what they meant from context...but they > weren't on the FCC's banned list of things you can't say and keep your > license. well, aside from "Kill four more and get the whole week off!" --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 7 10:04:16 2004 Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 07:03:50 -0700 (PDT) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: OT: Emoticons (was: Re: tars... local and online) To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Carl Schelin wrote: > > [Dave] .... However, this emoticon :-( is not a smiley... (is > > it a frownie?) > > It's trademarked. See http://www.despair.com for the full story. I think > they're charging 5 bucks for the use of the "frownie" in e-mail. Sorry, but that's just 'Net crap. Trademarks apply only in the particular fields of commerce for which they are issued. There can be many trademarks for the identical text or logo, so long as they exist in fields which will not be confused (often decided by a court). The 8:( trademark, for example, applies to "International Class: 016 Printed matter namely, greeting cards, posters and art prints" It does not apply to email -- that is simply a Web scam on the part of the despair.com company. There are also multiple trademarks for other emoticons, such as: :-) Goods and Services IC 025. US 022 039. G & S: clothing. which applies only to clothing bearing that particular emoticon. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 7 10:07:47 2004 Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 10:07:33 -0400 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Re: Dressing for the crash At 08:40 PM 5/6/04 -0700, Carl Schelin wrote: >It >also has a engine issue; the check engine light goes out, I start, it >comes back on for about 5 seconds and then goes away. I'm thinking it's >the difference between sea-level and mile-high; possibly an EFI >adjustment. Maybe, but couldn't it also be the oil? If the oil pressure doesn't come up properly, I think that will trigger the light. Maybe it's taking longer than it should to reach full pressure? Causes could be clogged filter, low oil level, worn oil pump, or maybe something else? Do you have the oil pressure gauge on your bike? The EFI with the stock map is supposed to be good enough everywhere. Not ideal, but good enough. At sea level it tends to run a little lean, so where you are now it's probably ok to slightly rich. Unless you get a TFI, Power Commander or something similar, I don't think it's adjustable. They have different maps for things like the Stage I aircleaner kit, but for any given hardware setup, I think there's only one map from H-D. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 7 10:10:38 2004 Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 07:10:30 -0700 (PDT) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: OT: Emoticons (was: Re: tars... local and online) To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Forgot to mention that I do have a couple of despair.com's posters hanging in my office, though. They're the cynic's perfect response to all the motivational crap that companies (and the government) often hang in the halls. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 7 10:19:09 2004 Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 10:17:07 -0400 To: "Rob Sharp" , , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Cute super-squid? At 12:49 AM 5/7/04 -0400, Rob Sharp wrote: >American's are litigious and cheap. Companies block that stuff for employees >to save from getting sued somehow and to increase productive. It *AINT* cause >we are immature. Ummm...if we aren't immature, why would getting sued for something like that be an issue in the first place? As for increasing productivity, ok, I can buy that, but only if they block all non-work-related sites. Like, say, those having to do with moto racing, moto clothes, and motorcycles (unless that's your industry). Are those blocked too? I doubt it... The reason why that site might be an issue, but one showing the winners of last week's race isn't, is that Americans are, as a whole, at about the Jr. High school level of maturity when it comes to nudity or anything resembling it. You can almost hear the "heh, heh, heh, heh" noises any time anything related to it comes up. Compare to most other parts of the world, and only the fanatical Islamic countries are more uptight about it than we are. It's just sad. However, as was pointed out, it's only very remotely related to motos, so I'll drop it here. The original intent was moto-related, as the subject indicates, but the resulting thread isn't. If anyone wants to continue in direct mail, you know where I am. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 7 10:25:55 2004 Subject: Lunch today Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 10:29:27 -0400 From: "Julian Halton" To: I am heading out to Carlisle Grand in Shirlington for lunch. I will be there at 12:15pm. There is parking in front, off to the side and tons of spaces by the nearby theater. It is easy to get too, right off the 395, shirlington exit, first left. Any of you listers are welcome to join me and say hello! From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 7 10:31:25 2004 Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 10:30:45 -0400 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: OT: Emoticons (was: Re: tars... local and online) At 09:24 PM 5/6/04 -0700, Carl Schelin wrote: > >It's trademarked. See http://www.despair.com for the full story. I think >they're charging 5 bucks for the use of the "frownie" in e-mail. Ok, I guess we have to make an example of them and put them out of business for such an unfriendly attempt to hijack public property for private use. Let's all not ever buy anything from these people. I don't know what the USPTO is thinking these days. Their collective IQ seems to have plummeted. They've issued patents on the XOR operation, despite many decades of prior art, and now they are trademarking collections of punctuation marks, when they have been in common use for many years as a form of expression. It would be like me trademarking "FUCK" and trying to collect every time someone hits their thumb with a hammer. It's absurd. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 7 10:31:46 2004 Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 10:23:39 -0400 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: RE Mileage Bragging Rights At 09:40 PM 5/6/04 -0700, Carl Schelin wrote: >If I could >keep the rain from getting in my eyes on the Harley I might lean in that >direction more often. Goggles? Maybe that's why more Harley riders than other types wear non-full-face helmets? ;-) >Other than the ride to work, probably the car mainly cause it's for a >short ride to 7/11 or Home Depot and it's too much trouble to get dressed >up for a short ride. Also depends what I'm going for. I can carry 3 sheets of 3/4" plywood on the roof rack of the Jeep, and/or fit a table saw (unassembled) in the back, but the bike's cargo capacity isn't anywhere near that good... -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 7 10:32:45 2004 Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 10:32:40 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: Julian Halton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Lunch today -----Original Message----- From: Julian Halton I am heading out to Carlisle Grand in Shirlington for lunch. I will be there at 12:15pm. There is parking in front, off to the side and tons of spaces by the nearby theater. It is easy to get too, right off the 395, shirlington exit, first left. Any of you listers are welcome to join me and say hello! -------------- Barring any calamities, the Kawitractor and I should be there. Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 7 10:32:58 2004 Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 10:30:04 -0400 From: Skip CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Dressing for the crash Carl Schelin wrote: > > --- adamme1@XXXXXX wrote: > > Laura, > > > > What surprises me is the Harley crowd. We spend upwards of > > $25k for a bike and then bitch about how much synthetic > > oil changes and maintenance cost. > > > > $14k and $420 or so for fluid changes is still fricking expensive :-) > > BTW, the Harley is in the shop for the 30k. It seems to like the shop for > each of the 10k marks. so I'm coming out of work, heading to my bike, and the fedEx guy says, "hey! when're you gonna get a real bike?" "huh?" "you know... A harley!" "I need a bike that runs reliably. I guess I'll just keep my 20 year old Honda" nod, smile, put on helmet. :~) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 7 10:43:36 2004 Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 10:42:50 -0400 (EDT) From: dan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Selling a MC On Thu, 6 May 2004, rich hall wrote: > I had very little reponse in June from an ad in the Post last yr. Seca II, > same people would probably be looking at a Katana. > Put it on EBay w/ a reserve. Didn't make reserve, negotiated w/ the highest > bidder. $50 less I wanted, think it cost $50 to list on Ebay. So $100 less > than I wanted. I sold random stock parts off it on Ebay to get that $100 > back. > Had the same response last year trying to sell a Ducati Monster. A few calls from the Post, all looking for "deals". I had the bike listed for 1/2 way between trade and NADA. No one came to look. Put it on ebay, got TONS of email and ended up getting 150 less than what we wanted and it was gone in a week. Bypassed the post and went direct to ebay with a Jeep Wrangler, I ended up getting FULL KBB RETAIL! Two bits of advice: 1. Watch out for the scammers that are all too quick to send you a check. I don't think I'd be confortable taking anything other than cash or paypal. These days I'd actually take a personal check before a cashiers check. If you do take one, take it to the bank it was drawn on and get cash, then hand over the title. 2. Post lots of pics and give lots of detail. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 7 10:44:41 2004 Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 07:44:34 -0700 (PDT) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: OT: Emoticons (was: Re: tars... local and online) To: Mike Bartman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > I don't know what the USPTO is thinking these days. Their collective IQ > seems to have plummeted. They've issued patents on the XOR operation, ...the issuance of software patents was decided by a court, not the PTO. > despite many decades of prior art Patent examiners are piece workers. To make their monthly quotas and receive their full pay, they have something like 4 hours to spend on each patent, which typically includes 2 hours for searching. The commercial software prior art experts, like Greg Aharonian (www.bustpatents.com), know the weaknesses of the system better than anyone and rouse enough rabble to get the most egregious cases either re-examined by PTO or thrown out by courts. >.... and now they are trademarking > collections of punctuation marks, when they have been in common use for > many years as a form of expression. It would be like me trademarking > "FUCK" and trying to collect every time someone hits their thumb with a > hammer. It's absurd. It also hasn't happened, and can't happen. It would help if you knew what you were going off about at times, Mike. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 7 11:24:37 2004 Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 11:22:41 -0400 To: Skip From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Dressing for the crash Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 10:30 AM 5/7/04 -0400, Skip wrote: >"you know... A harley!" > >"I need a bike that runs reliably. I guess I'll just keep my 20 year old Honda" > > What makes you think Harley's aren't reliable? Mine starts up like that every time so far. There are guys in the local club riding 1990, or older, bikes that do the same thing. Saw a segment of American Thunder last night where a 1907 Harley was started first try...a properly maintained bike should always do that. There *is* one guy in the club with a rep for having breakdowns, but I think he's riding a 1966 model, and he does his own maintenance. He's the same guy who's home-built chopper had issues on the Spring Tuneup Ride down to Orange, VA...turns out he sheared the bolts holding his rear pulley to the rear wheel. There were no markings on the heads of the bolts he used...[1] -- Mike Bartman [1] I may not be a mechanic, but even I know that that's a location where Grade 8 bolts are normally used, and that such bolts always have markings on the heads (5 lines, isn't it? And probably, though not always, some sort of maker's mark?). From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 7 11:31:40 2004 Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 08:31:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Re: Dressing for the crash To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 08:40 PM 5/6/04 -0700, Carl Schelin wrote: > >It > >also has a engine issue; the check engine light goes out, I start, it > >comes back on for about 5 seconds and then goes away. I'm thinking it's > >the difference between sea-level and mile-high; possibly an EFI > >adjustment. > > Maybe, but couldn't it also be the oil? If the oil pressure doesn't > come > up properly, I think that will trigger the light. Maybe it's taking > longer > than it should to reach full pressure? Causes could be clogged filter, > low > oil level, worn oil pump, or maybe something else? Do you have the oil > pressure gauge on your bike? I hadn't thought of that, but I also had checked the oil in VA prior to coming out. I had to add a bit but it should have been ok as far as level is concerned. No oil pressure gauge though. > > The EFI with the stock map is supposed to be good enough everywhere. > Not > ideal, but good enough. At sea level it tends to run a little lean, so > where you are now it's probably ok to slightly rich. Unless you get a > TFI, > Power Commander or something similar, I don't think it's adjustable. > They > have different maps for things like the Stage I aircleaner kit, but for > any > given hardware setup, I think there's only one map from H-D. Yea, I thought it was kind of weak but it was the only thing I could speculate. Since I made the ride last year and don't recall seeing it happen then, I wasn't fully convinced that was the problem. We should find out today though. The last two times the dealer had the bike for 4-6 weeks. I dropped it off this time on Wednesday for work on Thursday. He said that they'd try to get it to me COB Thursday but they _might_ take as long as Friday if that's ok. :-) > > -- Mike B. Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 7 11:34:22 2004 Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 08:34:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: OT: Emoticons (was: Re: tars... local and online) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" wrote: > Forgot to mention that I do have a couple of despair.com's posters > hanging in my > office, though. They're the cynic's perfect response to all the > motivational crap > that companies (and the government) often hang in the halls. > I have a couple of the smaller ones from a calendar I had. I've been wanting to get a couple of the full sized ones but I think I have enough junk in the house now :-) > -- Larry > Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 7 11:40:40 2004 Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 08:40:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: RE Mileage Bragging Rights To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 09:40 PM 5/6/04 -0700, Carl Schelin wrote: > >If I could > >keep the rain from getting in my eyes on the Harley I might lean in > that > >direction more often. > > Goggles? Maybe that's why more Harley riders than other types wear > non-full-face helmets? ;-) I have goggles. They don't work that well either since they have vents. It makes it impossible to clear the inside when the water gets in. At least with the full face I can run a thumb behind the shield from time to time to clear the rain. And rain in the face might make a good indian name but it stings at driving speeds :-) > > >Other than the ride to work, probably the car mainly cause it's for a > >short ride to 7/11 or Home Depot and it's too much trouble to get > dressed > >up for a short ride. > > Also depends what I'm going for. I can carry 3 sheets of 3/4" plywood > on > the roof rack of the Jeep, and/or fit a table saw (unassembled) in the > back, but the bike's cargo capacity isn't anywhere near that good... > Well, I figured that was obvious ;-) Back when I was running a D&D game at the Ft. Meade rec center, I'd cart two suitcases (one full sized and pink (ex-wife's idea; can't miss a large pink suitcase at the airport :-) and the other the small size) of papers and books on the luggage rack of my CB360. I had a 18"x24" piece of cardboard that I'd have sitting on the rear passenger peg and bungeed down. > -- Mike B. > Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 7 11:44:27 2004 Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 08:44:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Dressing for the crash To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Skip wrote: > > > Carl Schelin wrote: > > > > --- adamme1@XXXXXX wrote: > > > Laura, > > > > > > What surprises me is the Harley crowd. We spend upwards of > > > $25k for a bike and then bitch about how much synthetic > > > oil changes and maintenance cost. > > > > > > > $14k and $420 or so for fluid changes is still fricking expensive :-) > > > > BTW, the Harley is in the shop for the 30k. It seems to like the shop > for > > each of the 10k marks. > > so I'm coming out of work, heading to my bike, and the fedEx guy says, > "hey! > when're you gonna get a real bike?" > > "huh?" > > "you know... A harley!" > > "I need a bike that runs reliably. I guess I'll just keep my 20 year > old Honda" > > > > nod, smile, put on helmet. > It seems to run reasonably. It just seems to have regular issues. I'm thinking I'll get close to my money's worth on the extended warrenty though. I guess it's because I actually ride the thing. I've seen too many bikes in the paper or on line with 1000 miles on it. At that rate, it'll take 15 years just to get to 10,000 miles :-) I think I'm determined to have 50k on it before the warrenty runs out :-) > > :~) > Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 7 11:47:25 2004 Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 08:47:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: OT: Emoticons (was: Re: tars... local and online) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 09:24 PM 5/6/04 -0700, Carl Schelin wrote: > > > >It's trademarked. See http://www.despair.com for the full story. I > think > >they're charging 5 bucks for the use of the "frownie" in e-mail. > > Ok, I guess we have to make an example of them and put them out of > business > for such an unfriendly attempt to hijack public property for private > use. > Let's all not ever buy anything from these people. > > I don't know what the USPTO is thinking these days. Their collective IQ > seems to have plummeted. They've issued patents on the XOR operation, > despite many decades of prior art, and now they are trademarking > collections of punctuation marks, when they have been in common use for > many years as a form of expression. It would be like me trademarking > "FUCK" and trying to collect every time someone hits their thumb with a > hammer. It's absurd. I did imply a smiley. I can't believe the effort involved in enforcing that sort of trademark. > > > -- Mike B. > Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 7 12:07:49 2004 From: David Cross Subject: Wanted: < $2000 MC Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 12:07:41 -0400 To: dccycles A friend of mine just completed the MSF class and has his motorcycle license and is looking to buy a motorcycle for $2000 or less. It just needs to be reliable transportation that needs nothing fixed to operate safely on the streets. Any kind/year/make/model is fine, as long as its streetable. He has the money and is very motivated to buy. Please contact me off list. David dave@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 7 12:25:08 2004 Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 09:25:01 -0700 (PDT) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: the truth about carls To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/dilbert-20040506.html -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 7 12:46:11 2004 From: "Michael Jordan" To: Subject: RE: Emoticons (was: Re: tars... local and online) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 12:46:02 -0400 > It's trademarked. See http://www.despair.com for the full > story. I think they're charging 5 bucks for the use of the > "frownie" in e-mail. Before we all get carried away on this - go back a look closely at the site. Think satire. Anyone taking the $5/email usage seriously probably believes that The Onion is a primary source of unimpeachable news and truth. Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 7 13:51:03 2004 Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 10:51:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: the truth about carls To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" wrote: > http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/dilbert-20040506.html > > -- Larry That's "Kruphnehdahpheweundikaniswalyniaphorganopop from Elbonia". I'm Carl from Elbonia... I mean Colorado, well technically _from_ California most recently from Virginia. Now I'm Carl _in_ Colorado. And BTW, being from California or New York are apparently bad things here in Denver. Carl in Colorado ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 7 13:51:56 2004 Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 10:51:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: RE: Emoticons (was: Re: tars... local and online) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Michael Jordan wrote: > > > It's trademarked. See http://www.despair.com for the full > > story. I think they're charging 5 bucks for the use of the > > "frownie" in e-mail. > > Before we all get carried away on this - go back a look closely at the > site. > > Think satire. > > Anyone taking the $5/email usage seriously probably believes that The > Onion > is a primary source of unimpeachable news and truth. You mean they aren't? Man, and they had such great stories ;-) > > Michael J. Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 7 13:54:32 2004 Subject: Lunch at Shirlington Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 13:58:05 -0400 From: "Julian Halton" To: A oh so beautiful and tranquil ride out there. Paul Wilson and Sean Steele joined me and we had a nice time chatting about Montana, safety, different bikes, and people in general. Saw about 10 other bike out and about. Thanks guys for making it out and hope everyone has a great weekend. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 7 14:08:34 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 14:08:23 EDT Subject: Re: Riders/owners--mileage bragging rights To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 5/7/2004 7:10:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mobacc@XXXXXX writes: > For those who wish to make motorcycle-clan official the length of their, er, > uh, mileage, the AMA has "Long Rider" patches and decals. There are a number of clubs that have mileage awards, BMWMOA (and no doubt others) has 100,000 200,000 etc. awards and pins. What I have been "pushing" for in these online/eledtronic formats, because it is more "electronic" and utterly universal no matter what distance measuring system you use is the "Light Second Award." Anyone with 186,000mi. , 300,000km. or whatever a light second measures in your system would qualify. Simple, universal, and challenging. New "bumper sticker" on the ST1100. "Eat right, stay fit, DIE ANYWAY!" John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 7 15:38:29 2004 Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 14:38:22 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, mike@XXXXXX, thomas Jordan From: Sean Jordan Subject: How NOT to treat a motorcycle engine!!! http://forums.13x.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=50630 - Sean Jordan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 7 15:57:08 2004 Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 12:57:01 -0700 (PDT) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Lunch at Shirlington To: Julian Halton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Julian Halton wrote: > > A oh so beautiful and tranquil ride out there. Paul Wilson and Sean > Steele joined me and we had a nice time chatting about Montana, safety, > different bikes, and people in general. Saw about 10 other bike out and > about. Thanks guys for making it out and hope everyone has a great > weekend. Well, my buddy Chris and I almost made it, but at 11:55, just as we were about to leave, the Evil Witch of the West (tm), his boss, descended on his office and held him hostage for 45 minutes. 8;( Chris just picked up his new red ZRX-1200R yesterday, replacing the CBR-600RR he totalled a couple of months ago, and was all set to show it off (at 4000 rpm or less, of course.) Ah well, next time. Glad you guys hooked up. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 7 16:03:54 2004 Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 16:04:14 -0400 From: Laura Roach To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: Motorcycle Internet Search Research Question Hey all. I'm looking for your thoughts on this because a friend and I are debating this issue. When you are looking for a new product for you or your bike (anything from helmets and jackets to brake levers and oil) how do you do an internet search? Do you specifically look up someone like "arai" or do you go more general, something like "motorcycle helmets"? And what is your thinking behind how you search? Any thoughts would be appreciated! Laura From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 7 16:07:12 2004 From: mjordan812@XXXXXX To: Subject: RE: How NOT to treat a motorcycle engine!!! Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 15:06:54 -0500 YM (as they say) MV Michael J. > -----Original Message----- > From: Sean Jordan [mailto:eternity23@XXXXXX] > Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 14:38 > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX; mike@XXXXXX; thomas Jordan > Subject: How NOT to treat a motorcycle engine!!! > > http://forums.13x.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=50630 > > - Sean Jordan > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 7 16:07:34 2004 From: "Sean Steele" To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 16:07:15 -0400 Subject: Re: Motorcycle Internet Search Research Question I use Froogle.com if I'm in a purhase mode: www.froogle.com. It works really well, and it's more predictable than using other search engines for price comparisons. YMMV, of course. -Sean Laura Roach wrote: > Hey all. I'm looking for your thoughts on this because a friend and I > are debating this issue. > > When you are looking for a new product for you or your bike (anything > from helmets and jackets to brake levers and oil) how do you do an > internet search? > > Do you specifically look up someone like "arai" or do you go more > general, something like "motorcycle helmets"? And what is your thinking > behind how you search? > > Any thoughts would be appreciated! > Laura From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 7 16:08:46 2004 Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 16:05:53 -0400 From: Skip To: Mike Bartman CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Dressing for the crash Mike Bartman wrote: > > At 10:30 AM 5/7/04 -0400, Skip wrote: > > >"you know... A harley!" > > > >"I need a bike that runs reliably. I guess I'll just keep my 20 year old > Honda" > > > > > > What makes you think Harley's aren't reliable? just my experience with them. I will concede that they are significantly more reliable now than they were from their inception to the late 80's. But that ammount of time enables you to build a reputation. heck, from the time I was a kid I heard "if you don't like working on motorcycles, don't get a Harley." > Mine starts up like that > every time so far. There are guys in the local club riding 1990, or older, > bikes that do the same thing. Saw a segment of American Thunder last night > where a 1907 Harley was started first try...a properly maintained bike > should always do that. what we didn't see was that they had just shut that bike off, so it's warmed up and ready to go. :~) Harley makes a capable bike for a specific market these days. their reliability has come leaps and bounds. My Honda, however, hasn't seen the inside of a dealership since it was new, and it's 20 years old. that is reliability. > There *is* one guy in the club with a rep for having breakdowns, but I > think he's riding a 1966 model, and he does his own maintenance. He's the > same guy who's home-built chopper had issues on the Spring Tuneup Ride down > to Orange, VA...turns out he sheared the bolts holding his rear pulley to > the rear wheel. There were no markings on the heads of the bolts he > used...[1] > > -- Mike Bartman > > [1] I may not be a mechanic, but even I know that that's a location where > Grade 8 bolts are normally used, and that such bolts always have markings > on the heads (5 lines, isn't it? And probably, though not always, some > sort of maker's mark?). hmmm. yeah. they make and specify graded bolts for a reason. seems that guy can turn a wrench, but is no mechanic either. --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 7 16:10:34 2004 Subject: RE: Motorcycle Internet Search Research Question Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 16:10:27 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Laura Roach" , Depends on the type of search. For a helmet, I know I like the Shoei brand, so I tend to search first for options along this tree. For an unrestricted search on a product, I try to narrow the search down somehow, if not by brand then by fitment, reviews, or date ranges. Too many results otherwise. Robert -----Original Message----- From: Laura Roach [mailto:laura@XXXXXX] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 4:04 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Motorcycle Internet Search Research Question Hey all. I'm looking for your thoughts on this because a friend and I are debating this issue. When you are looking for a new product for you or your bike (anything from helmets and jackets to brake levers and oil) how do you do an internet search? Do you specifically look up someone like "arai" or do you go more general, something like "motorcycle helmets"? And what is your thinking behind how you search? Any thoughts would be appreciated! Laura From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 7 16:20:19 2004 Reply-To: "Patrick Carter" From: "Patrick Carter" To: , , "thomas Jordan" , "Sean Jordan" Subject: Re: How NOT to treat a motorcycle engine!!! Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 16:19:13 -0400 I bet I could brake it. ~PC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sean Jordan" To: ; ; "thomas Jordan" Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 3:38 PM Subject: How NOT to treat a motorcycle engine!!! > http://forums.13x.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=50630 > > - Sean Jordan > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 7 16:24:20 2004 Subject: RE: How NOT to treat a motorcycle engine!!! Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 16:24:10 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: Some people should not be allowed near machines. -----Original Message----- From: mjordan812@XXXXXX [mailto:mjordan812@XXXXXX] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 4:07 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: How NOT to treat a motorcycle engine!!! YM (as they say) MV Michael J. > -----Original Message----- > From: Sean Jordan [mailto:eternity23@XXXXXX] > Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 14:38 > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX; mike@XXXXXX; thomas Jordan > Subject: How NOT to treat a motorcycle engine!!! > > http://forums.13x.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=50630 > > - Sean Jordan > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 7 16:47:04 2004 Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 16:46:48 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" , Julian Halton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Lunch at Shirlington -----Original Message----- From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" --- Julian Halton wrote: > > A oh so beautiful and tranquil ride out there. Paul Wilson and Sean > Steele joined me and we had a nice time chatting about Montana, safety, > different bikes, and people in general. Saw about 10 other bike out and > about. Thanks guys for making it out and hope everyone has a great > weekend. Well, my buddy Chris and I almost made it, but at 11:55, just as we were about to leave, the Evil Witch of the West (tm), his boss, descended on his office and held him hostage for 45 minutes. 8;( ----- An enjoyable lunch, Julian. Thanks for naming the time and place. I'd be willing to do this as a monthly thing. Anyway, mark your calendars, folks. Ride To Work Day is July 21st. That means Ride To Lunch Day for the Alex.-Arl.-Crystal City bunch. Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 7 16:50:16 2004 Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 16:47:23 -0400 From: Skip To: Carl Schelin CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Emoticons (was: Re: tars... local and online) Carl Schelin wrote: > > --- Michael Jordan wrote: > > > > > It's trademarked. See http://www.despair.com for the full > > > story. I think they're charging 5 bucks for the use of the > > > "frownie" in e-mail. > > > > Before we all get carried away on this - go back a look closely at the > > site. > > > > Think satire. > > > > Anyone taking the $5/email usage seriously probably believes that The > > Onion > > is a primary source of unimpeachable news and truth. > > You mean they aren't? Man, and they had such great stories ;-) my personal favorite (no longer in the archives) was "Chrysler recalls Neck-belts" From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 7 17:27:07 2004 Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 14:26:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Great Ebay Buy To: DC Cycles I am so happy. Someone threw (?) a rock at my gas tank over the winter when I was out of town. Dented the tank beyond repair. For shits and giggles I priced a new one, $700 which is crazy for a 1991 VFR with many street scrapes. Go I very good tank for......$42. Was willing to pay $250 so today felt good http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&category=35563&item=7901246958&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWA%3AIT __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 7 17:32:34 2004 Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 14:32:28 -0700 (PDT) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Ride to Work Day 2004 (was: Lunch at Shirlington) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Paul Wilson wrote: > Anyway, mark your calendars, folks. Ride To Work Day is July 21st. That means > Ride To Lunch Day for the Alex.-Arl.-Crystal City bunch. Let's see, this will be the 38th annual Ride to Lunch Day, won't it? Never too early to start planning. Shirlington (brewpub?) again (nice and central)? Old Irish Brogue in Great Falls (nice twisties through the "country")? Mango Mike's on Duke St. near Landmark Plaza (or near CompUSA for this crowd)? Murphy's in Falls Church (near Coleman PowerSlime)? Other ideas? -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 7 20:03:45 2004 Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 20:03:35 -0400 From: Dale Horstman To: Mike Bartman CC: Glenn Dysart , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: RE Mileage Bragging Rights Mike Bartman wrote: > 2 bays, 2 floors, 2 cool. :) > > > Sounds wonderful! Is this going to include a paint booth too? What other > goodies are being considered? > > -- Mike B. > > P.S. Love the term "Garage-mahal"! Mike, I figure it needs to be that big just so I get one bay all to myself. Oldest daughter is making noises about starting up a garage band, and the Wife is already talking about moving out her metric tons of Girl Scout stuff out there already. All I want is something to get the bikes off the street, and give me a spot to do maintenance without getting rained on. Other garage goodies are probably a ways away, yet. Horkster -- Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark) Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX '98 Concours - BugSlayer Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth '99 Concours - Grape Nehi CM #001 NRA IBA COG '82 GS850G - Neat old bike The Mason Dixon 20-20 Endurance Rally: The Games People Play Come join us in 2004: http://www.masondixon20-20.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 7 20:31:22 2004 Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 20:18:23 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Bruce Brownlee Subject: Re: HDI EFI Sorry Mike, I dont want to get into a micturation contest, but you couldnt be more wrong about HDI EFI. As someone who studied in detail the first generation (Bosch type) open loop system and specifically upgraded to an 02 because of the closed loop 'type' system, I've read (and worked on) a fair share. The map (by definition) is optimized for all conditions. Most people report exceptional performance at altitude. Think a type of heuristic approach. I think theres something like 5 sensors (air temp, density, throttle position, cam position, etc) that are used to determine mixture (or injector duration, in EFI talk). Devices such as the powercommander allow those to be modified by the owner (I had one on my '95) but they STILL operate using the same concept. Read ambient settings, adjust duration, timing, etc based on what the map says. There is absolutely NO "tuning to average conditions" like occur with carbs. The absolute conditions are matched to optimal settings based on the programmers historical testing. Carl, The manual says the light should come on for 4 seconds when the key is turned on. I would test this without starting the engine. Engine start is not supposed to affect the self test. If you have a historical code in memory, the light will come on for 4 seconds, go off for 4 seconds, then come back on for 8 seconds. You can see that a low voltage condition caused by a start might put the computer back in self test, causing that 4 second light to come on a 'second time'. A historical code means there was a fault at some time, but it doesnt exist any more. If the light stays on, that means the fault still exists. A fault will be cleared after 50 'trips' (start and run for at least 30 seconds). I have had luck resetting by disconnecting power to the PCM for a few minutes by pulling the fuse of something.... You can retrieve the codes by jumpering two pins on the diagnostic terminal. I suggest you get the electrical diagnostics manual for you model. If you wanted to email me, I can give you the details and codes. You'd be suprised what will toss a code. Low battery will do it. What I have found is most common is cam position sensor and it seems to be caused mostly by a bad start. Anyway, no adjustment to computer maps should be required for anywhere in the US unless a change has been made to the system (stage 1, etc). Mass airflow sensors, barometric pressure sensors, intake air temp, etc... They are all there and combine to provide peak performance (as HDI defines it) throughout all operating conditions..... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 7 22:37:34 2004 From: "lisagoddard" To: , "dccycles" Subject: Lunch - Ride to work day 2004 Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 22:41:50 -0400 I will set up Louisiana Express in Bethesda for anyone in that neck of the woods. Good grub and easy bike parking. Lisa Goddard '95 VFR street '97 GSXR track ate: Fri, 7 May 2004 14:32:28 -0700 (PDT) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Ride to Work Day 2004 (was: Lunch at Shirlington) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Paul Wilson wrote: > Anyway, mark your calendars, folks. Ride To Work Day is July 21st. That means > Ride To Lunch Day for the Alex.-Arl.-Crystal City bunch. Let's see, this will be the 38th annual Ride to Lunch Day, won't it? Never too early to start planning. Shirlington (brewpub?) again (nice and central)? Old Irish Brogue in Great Falls (nice twisties through the "country")? Mango Mike's on Duke St. near Landmark Plaza (or near CompUSA for this crowd)? Murphy's in Falls Church (near Coleman PowerSlime)? Other ideas? -- Larry From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 7 22:52:25 2004 From: "John White" To: "DC Cycles" , "Mark Kitchell" Subject: Re: Great Ebay Buy Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 22:52:24 -0400 X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original Seal-Send-Time: Fri, 7 May 2004 22:52:24 -0400 Sweet deal. I love eBay! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Kitchell" To: "DC Cycles" Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 5:26 PM Subject: Great Ebay Buy > I am so happy. Someone threw (?) a rock at my gas > tank over the winter when I was out of town. Dented > the tank beyond repair. For shits and giggles I > priced a new one, $700 which is crazy for a 1991 VFR > with many street scrapes. > > Go I very good tank for......$42. Was willing to pay > $250 so today felt good > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&category=35563&item=7901246958&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWA%3AIT > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat May 8 00:34:22 2004 Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 21:34:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: HDI EFI To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Bruce Brownlee wrote: > Sorry Mike, I dont want to get into a micturation contest, but you > couldnt be more wrong about HDI EFI. As someone who studied in detail > the first generation (Bosch type) open loop system and specifically > upgraded to an 02 because of the closed loop 'type' system, I've read > (and worked on) a fair share. > > The map (by definition) is optimized for all conditions. Most people > report exceptional performance at altitude. Think a type of heuristic > approach. I think theres something like 5 sensors (air temp, density, > throttle position, cam position, etc) that are used to determine > mixture (or injector duration, in EFI talk). Devices such as the > powercommander allow those to be modified by the owner (I had one on my > '95) but they STILL operate using the same concept. Read ambient > settings, adjust duration, timing, etc based on what the map says. > There is absolutely NO "tuning to average conditions" like occur with > carbs. The absolute conditions are matched to optimal settings based > on the programmers historical testing. > > Carl, > The manual says the light should come on for 4 seconds when the key is > turned on. I would test this without starting the engine. Engine start > is not supposed to affect the self test. If you have a historical code > in memory, the light will come on for 4 seconds, go off for 4 seconds, > then come back on for 8 seconds. You can see that a low voltage > condition caused by a start might put the computer back in self test, > causing that 4 second light to come on a 'second time'. A historical > code means there was a fault at some time, but it doesnt exist any more. > If the light stays on, that means the fault still exists. Unfortunately I'm in no position to check this right now. It does sound like what you're saying though. While I always wait for the lights to go out, I do recall seeing the engine light still on while I was getting suited up. Possibly in the manner you're stating. When it was colder, I did notice that it was taking two tries to get the bike started and once in a while there was a back fire. I was assuming it was weather related since on warmer days it'd start right up. > > A fault will be cleared after 50 'trips' (start and run for at least 30 > seconds). I have had luck resetting by disconnecting power to the PCM > for a few minutes by pulling the fuse of something.... You can > retrieve the codes by jumpering two pins on the diagnostic terminal. I > suggest you get the electrical diagnostics manual for you model. If > you wanted to email me, I can give you the details and codes. Nah, I appreciate it but like I said. It's already in the shop. That's the second time something's come up that having the book would have been nice. I'll be ordering that when I pick her up. > > You'd be suprised what will toss a code. Low battery will do it. What > I have found is most common is cam position sensor and it seems to be > caused mostly by a bad start. Actually with only two lights to indicate something needs to be checked, I'm surprised it's not on more often. With the book, I can at least be a little informed before dragging her to the shop again. > > Anyway, no adjustment to computer maps should be required for anywhere > in the US unless a change has been made to the system (stage 1, etc). > Mass airflow sensors, barometric pressure sensors, intake air temp, > etc... They are all there and combine to provide peak performance > (as HDI defines it) throughout all operating conditions..... The service guy sort of agreed with me. Now I think he was just figuratively patting my head :-) Let's see if they try and double talk me as well. Thanks again for the lesson. Carl > > ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat May 8 16:59:34 2004 Date: Sat, 08 May 2004 16:56:44 -0400 To: Skip From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Dressing for the crash Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 04:05 PM 5/7/04 -0400, Skip wrote: > > >Mike Bartman wrote: >> >> At 10:30 AM 5/7/04 -0400, Skip wrote: >> >> >"you know... A harley!" >> > >> >"I need a bike that runs reliably. I guess I'll just keep my 20 year old >> Honda" >> > >> > >> >> What makes you think Harley's aren't reliable? > >just my experience with them. I will concede that they are significantly more >reliable now than they were from their inception to the late 80's. But that >ammount of time enables you to build a reputation. heck, from the time I was a >kid I heard "if you don't like working on motorcycles, don't get a Harley." Ok, fair enough. For what it's worth, most vehicles prior to the 80s required a lot of maintenance. It was the Japanese cars in the 70s that scared everyone into trying to increase maintenance intervals. In the 60's it was just assumed that you'd replace your car every 3-5 years (though a few folks always bucked the trend). A 10 year old car was *OLD*. Ford even came up with the idea of "planned obsolescence", where the vehicle was designed to die in 5 years...part of where they got the "Found On Road Dead" name (if you design it to die in 5, some of them will die in 2 or 3). My '68 VW required a valve adjustment every 3000 miles (they did make it pretty easy though...you could remove the valve covers without tools, or with a small prybar if your fingers weren't strong enough). Cars were also simple enough that most folks where we lived did their own maintenance for things like brakes, tuneups, carb rebuilds, cooling system flush, etc., and only went to the pros for major problems. I still remember replacing ball joints in a '63 Mercury Montclaire in our one-car garage...without the proper tools. Nightmare time. On the other hand, when my VW threw its distributor on I-64 between Richmond and Williamsburg (bolt on the clamp broke, and the cam popped it up about an inch), I was able to repair it by the side of the road using a bolt stolen from a less critical area, and setting the timing with a couple of bits of wire, a friend to act as a lamp holder and a borrowed brake light. Primitive designs have their benefits. :-) >> [1] I may not be a mechanic, but even I know that that's a location where >> Grade 8 bolts are normally used, and that such bolts always have markings >> on the heads (5 lines, isn't it? And probably, though not always, some >> sort of maker's mark?). > >hmmm. yeah. they make and specify graded bolts for a reason. seems that guy >can turn a wrench, but is no mechanic either. Hopefully he'll learn. At least he's not afraid to try. I know too much to be that confident! :-) -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat May 8 19:17:36 2004 From: Stephen Miller Subject: Re: Dressing for the crash Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 19:17:59 -0400 To: DC-Cycles On May 8, 2004, at 4:56 PM, Mike Bartman wrote: > Ok, fair enough. For what it's worth, most vehicles prior to the 80s > required a lot of maintenance. It was the Japanese cars in the 70s > that > scared everyone into trying to increase maintenance intervals. In the > 60's > it was just assumed that you'd replace your car every 3-5 years > (though a > few folks always bucked the trend). A 10 year old car was *OLD*. Ford > even came up with the idea of "planned obsolescence", where the > vehicle was > designed to die in 5 years...part of where they got the "Found On Road > Dead" name (if you design it to die in 5, some of them will die in 2 > or 3). So I shouldn't whine too much if my '75 Honda 550 (30K on the clock) needs a rebuild over the winter? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat May 8 21:04:18 2004 From: "W.S." To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Ready to scratch that biker bar itch? Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 21:03:55 -0400 News from the 'hood. Last Thursday's W. Post District Weekly spoke of the upcoming May 18 Chap. 11 auction of "1819 Club" (used to be Joanna's: On M St. NW). Many know of the club, its attractive location, proximity to other watering holes, Metro, etc. Oh. It also comes with an alcohol/no-clothes-on-the-dancers (censor-sensitive here) license, one of said-to-be-frozen 20-odd in the city. License+Bldg est. at $2.5+m, there are other pertinent numbers. Bike parking only a block away. The front awning is bright and current. AFAIK, no leathers or colors restrictions. Bill S. / DC '99 VN750 > Bring me a bidder form. Enough room there for a wall-riding cage! Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 10 10:19:44 2004 Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 10:19:23 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Guess what... They're here... http://brauhaus.org/~brown/images/cicada.jpg (taken this morning in my back yard) -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 10 10:29:34 2004 Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 10:29:28 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: Guess what... My sister in Annandale said she has only seen a few, but her front yard looks like it was aerated. They are now coming up between her flagstones in the enclosed porch, and her dogs are gorging on them. Digging trenches in the yard to get at the late risers. The vet told us to watch out - the dogs will overeat on them, then get sick and dehydrate. At 10:19 AM 5/10/2004, Daniel H. Brown wrote: >They're here... > >http://brauhaus.org/~brown/images/cicada.jpg > > >(taken this morning in my back yard) ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles. One who does not know the enemy but knows himself will sometimes win, sometimes lose. One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself will be in danger in every battle. - Sun Tzu From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 10 10:45:42 2004 Subject: First Ride.... and weekend report. Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 10:49:14 -0400 From: "Julian Halton" To: Well as is the tradition of passing wisdom on, the biker bug to ride that bit me in large part to a certain realtor...was officially passed on this weekend. After seeing my smiling face for six months, a great friend and co-worker took the MSF course in Richmond this weekend. I had already had him parking lot my bike once or twice and sit on every one imaginable. As par for the course and being long-legged he has already made up his mind. Used SV 650 (preferably blue) plus he needs all the equipment..I am going to size him and start helping him shop for everything he needs. If anyone knows of a SV650 that needs a good home, please let me know. I had a wonderful weekend of riding ( harpers ferry via g-town pike, 7 and then the 9) twice and the old speedy stand by of Annapolis. I took my ex with me to harpers and it was great as she was my first passenger and was the nightmare I complained about...well after giving her my new spiel about zen and the art of feeling in sync..it was a great ride although she complained of soreness. Hung out with the semi-clown that sold me my R6 and listened to him (a former mechanic) tell me that he had no idea it had been down before he sold it to me for 6k. According to him, he bought his new ride..an 03 CBR 954 for 6800 shipped from Nebraska brand new. On my way up to Annapolis, I was joined my a fellow yamaha rider and passenger and we rode in together. At the water, after parking, he gave me a compliment I shall cherish. He said : "I like your style...not too fast and shaky but in control and.......smooth." From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 10 10:56:16 2004 From: "Rob Keiser" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: FW: Bike for sale Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 10:44:06 -0400 Forwarding from a Moto-Crew friend. Rob If you all know someone looking for a sweet little cruiser, please spread the word. Here are the specs: 2002 Yamaha V-Star 650 Custom (bought Oct. of '01). Eggplant purple with silver higlights. Dealer maintained (all records available) and in excellent condition. Road hazard coverage on both tires. 13K miles. Asking $4000. Seller will toss in travel bags and XL men's cordura jacket with liner. Call 301.277.2252, leave message. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 10 11:53:37 2004 From: To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: CAD Cycles - Swapping tires off bike Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 11:53:30 -0400 Just to let everyone know. I called CAD Cycles about swapping out my tires Friday. They told me that they have no problem changing tires on Harley rims. I *did* call Herndon Cyclesport and was told "We don't normally do Harley rims and we *really* don't want to even discuss it." oookkkk.. Anyway, long story short, CAD did it in about an hour on Saturday morning. $17.50 per rim ($15 for r/r and spin balance, $2.50 old tire disposal). They also charged me $5 to take the belt sprocket off so if you plan on going over there and getting your Harley tires r/r'd. Save $5 and remove the sprocket before giving it to them. Rockville HD wanted $32.50 a rim and they couldn't guarantee it being done by Saturday. Patriot HD would do it for $26 a rim but also said it may not be done for a couple of days. CAD...I like them already! Well worth the trip. -aki From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 10 11:57:16 2004 Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 08:57:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: DUI killer skates on most serious charge To: Mike Bartman , Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX i'm too busy to deal with this thread piecemeal. however, i do find it surprising that a self-proclaimed constitutional scholar would favor the abbrogation of rights specifically identified in that document simply to fix clerical errors. oh, mike, remember that speeding ticket you got 12 years ago, you were also negligent at that time in failing observe a traffic device, so you owe the state another $100. sorry we forgot to charge you then, but i'm sure you understand. as for "precedent," what weight should be given in maryland to a decision from a california lower court (or any ca. court, for that matter)? --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 09:34 AM 5/5/04 -0700, Tom Gimer wrote: > >--- Mike Bartman wrote: > > >> Double Jeopardy has to do with being tried twice for > the > >> *same offense*. > > > >and, paying a fine often constitutes "being tried." > > Yes, for the offense one is paying the fine for. Not for > other offenses > one may or may not have committed. > > >> Driving drunk, negligent driving, and manslaughter are > >> not the same > >> offense...though they are often committed > simultaneously. > > > >being convicted of a lesser included offense often bars > a > >subsequent proceeding based upon the offense which, for > >whatever reason, was not charged or pursued. > > I don't know what often happens. I'm talking about what > should be > happening. Often the officer at the scene will fail to > cite for a given > offense. Does that mean that all such offenses should be > excused? Of > course not. > > Does pleading guilty to burglary excuse me from a charge > of murder of a > resident of the dwelling committed as part of that > burglary? If not, why > should pleading guilty to negligent driving excuse > manslaughter? > > If you say it's because the charges were already brought > for the lesser > offense, and pled to, what if the murder wasn't > discovered until a week > after I'd been arrested for the burglary? Any change in > the situation? > > If not, I think we have a loophole that will allow murder > to be committed. > Just commit it in conjunction with some lesser crime, > make sure the murder > isn't discovered until after you've been arrested, > charged and pled guilty > to the lesser charge, and you are home free. "Double > Jeopardy" will > prevent them from charging you with the murder later > on...that's what > happened in this case anyway (with different crimes, > obviously). The guy > wasn't dead at the scene...he died several days later, > after the charges > for negligent driving had been brought, and the fine > paid...and you (and > the state authorities) say that this means they can't > charge her with her > other crimes...this is *wrong*. > > >> In the Rodney King case the officers were charged with > >> things like > >> excessive use of force, and found innocent. Then they > >> were charged with > >> violation of civil rights for the same actions...and > >> convicted. If that > >> wasn't double jeopardy, then charging this woman with > >> manslaughter now > >> wouldn't be either. > > > >is this the rodney king case we're discussing? no? > then > >the above is a perfect model example of > non-responsiveness. > > Ever hear of "precedent"? The non-statuatory part of the > law? The law > seems relevant here...too bad those in charge of it > aren't doing their jobs > very well. > > > -- Mike B. > > '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for > the non-Harley folks) > > Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from > someone else's mistakes > is better. > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 10 12:03:11 2004 Subject: RE: CAD Cycles - Swapping tires off bike Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 12:03:05 -0400 From: "Sean Brady" To: A word about "Herndon Cyclesport " -- they were the place I bought my first Seca 750 (back in 1986, when they still were in Tysons Corner). They have since been bought and sold so many times its hard to track what bikes they service anymore. When I bought my Triumph Adventurer from them (2000), they had a variety of bikes they dealt with. Within 2 years they had dropped Triumph, and most others, and have resorted to Yamaha/Suzuki. They presently call themselves "Champion Motorsports", and sell bikes (Yamaha and Suzuki I think) and ATVs. I did have them do some basic stuff on my adventurer, but have resorted to other people when problems arise. Just thought I'd share. Sean -----Original Message----- From: adamme1@XXXXXX [mailto:adamme1@XXXXXX] Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 11:54 AM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: CAD Cycles - Swapping tires off bike Just to let everyone know. I called CAD Cycles about swapping out my tires Friday. They told me that they have no problem changing tires on Harley rims. I *did* call Herndon Cyclesport and was told "We don't normally do Harley rims and we *really* don't want to even discuss it." oookkkk.. Anyway, long story short, CAD did it in about an hour on Saturday morning. $17.50 per rim ($15 for r/r and spin balance, $2.50 old tire disposal). They also charged me $5 to take the belt sprocket off so if you plan on going over there and getting your Harley tires r/r'd. Save $5 and remove the sprocket before giving it to them. Rockville HD wanted $32.50 a rim and they couldn't guarantee it being done by Saturday. Patriot HD would do it for $26 a rim but also said it may not be done for a couple of days. CAD...I like them already! Well worth the trip. -aki From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 10 13:08:34 2004 From: "Shigeru Honda" To: "dc-cycles" Subject: typo or fraud? Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 13:06:09 -0400 are these typo or fraud? too cheap to be true... 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mcy/30681624.html 2003 kawasaki Ninja ZX-9R - $2200 http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mcy/30681560.html --------------------- Shigeru Honda 98 SuperHawk (Street) 99 750 SS (Track #881) 02 MZ Skorpion Tour (Commuter) 91 CR80 (new toy) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 10 13:37:09 2004 From: "John White" To: shonda3@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: typo or fraud? Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 13:37:01 -0400 I'll take FRAUD for $500 Alex..... >From: "Shigeru Honda" >To: "dc-cycles" >Subject: typo or fraud? >Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 13:06:09 -0400 > >are these typo or fraud? >too cheap to be true... > >2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 >http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mcy/30681624.html > >2003 kawasaki Ninja ZX-9R - $2200 >http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mcy/30681560.html > > >--------------------- >Shigeru Honda >98 SuperHawk (Street) >99 750 SS (Track #881) >02 MZ Skorpion Tour (Commuter) >91 CR80 (new toy) > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 10 13:53:42 2004 Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 10:53:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: DUI killer skates on most serious charge To: Rob Sharp , John White , DC Cycles --- Rob Sharp wrote: > Wrongful death suit huh. > > I quote: > > > Miss Williams had just left work at a Burger King > on > > You probably will spend more in legal fees the you will > ever get back. fyi, most wrongful death cases are handled on a contingency basis. > On Wed, 5 May 2004 09:12:42 -0400, John White wrote > > That's f**ked up! Wow! She has to pay some how. The > family should > > file a wrongful death suit against her. Tap into her > assets and > > insurance or something. I know that won't bring him > back, but to > > let her just walk away like that.... __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 10 13:59:10 2004 From: To: "Shigeru Honda" , "dc-cycles" Subject: Re: typo or fraud? Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 13:59:03 -0400 ..if it's too good to be true... (hint: It is) > > From: "Shigeru Honda" > Date: 2004/05/10 Mon PM 01:06:09 EDT > To: "dc-cycles" > Subject: typo or fraud? > > are these typo or fraud? > too cheap to be true... > > 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 > http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mcy/30681624.html > > 2003 kawasaki Ninja ZX-9R - $2200 > http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mcy/30681560.html > > > --------------------- > Shigeru Honda > 98 SuperHawk (Street) > 99 750 SS (Track #881) > 02 MZ Skorpion Tour (Commuter) > 91 CR80 (new toy) > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 10 14:01:19 2004 From: "Jim McGonigle" To: , "'Shigeru Honda'" , "'dc-cycles'" Subject: RE: typo or fraud? Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 14:01:05 -0400 From the same person no less... Somethings wrong. -----Original Message----- From: adamme1@XXXXXX [mailto:adamme1@XXXXXX] Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 1:59 PM To: Shigeru Honda; dc-cycles Subject: Re: typo or fraud? ..if it's too good to be true... (hint: It is) > > From: "Shigeru Honda" > Date: 2004/05/10 Mon PM 01:06:09 EDT > To: "dc-cycles" > Subject: typo or fraud? > > are these typo or fraud? > too cheap to be true... > > 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 > http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mcy/30681624.html > > 2003 kawasaki Ninja ZX-9R - $2200 > http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mcy/30681560.html > > > --------------------- > Shigeru Honda > 98 SuperHawk (Street) > 99 750 SS (Track #881) > 02 MZ Skorpion Tour (Commuter) > 91 CR80 (new toy) > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 10 16:22:15 2004 From: "Perry Coleman" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: CAD Cycles - Swapping tires off bike Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 16:21:07 -0400 Dang, Aki! I live like 10 minutes from CAD. I wish I would have known you were coming... Perry >From: >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: CAD Cycles - Swapping tires off bike >Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 11:53:30 -0400 > >Just to let everyone know. I called CAD Cycles about swapping out my tires >Friday. They told me that they have no problem changing tires on Harley >rims. I *did* call Herndon Cyclesport and was told "We don't normally do >Harley rims and we *really* don't want to even discuss it." > >oookkkk.. > >Anyway, long story short, CAD did it in about an hour on >Saturday morning. $17.50 per rim ($15 for r/r and spin balance, $2.50 old >tire disposal). They also charged me $5 to take the belt sprocket off so >if you plan on going over there and getting your Harley tires r/r'd. Save >$5 and remove the sprocket before giving it to them. > >Rockville HD wanted $32.50 a rim and they couldn't guarantee it being done >by Saturday. > >Patriot HD would do it for $26 a rim but also said it may not be done for a >couple of days. > >CAD...I like them already! Well worth the trip. > >-aki > > _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee)B® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 10 16:56:37 2004 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'DCCycles'" Subject: COTU - SE Ohio Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 16:58:28 -0400 555 isn't as nice as the Dragon, but it's closer. This spring's healthy helping of cinders left over from the winter certainly made it "puckier", especially in Friday night's (May 7) rain. A Maggot arranged "t- shirts" http://cafeshops.com/jeffconlin Surf Ohio indeed. Carl in Bethesda Cross winds on Rt 60 & I-68 were fun too. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 10 20:29:12 2004 Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 17:29:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Harley Update To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Just for closure (sort of). I got the bike back from Sun HD this afternoon. The two problems apparently were non-issues. The cap on top of the left fork was a little loose, possibly from the impact on that bit of roadwork at Springfield (especially since the Suzuki has a similar problem). It was certainly hand tight since I checked that, but the mechanic checked the fork out and found no damage. He had to torque it to spec and that seemed to clear up the leak. The engine light was related to an overfull oil tank. It seems I filled it while on the jiffy stand rather than standing it up and I put about a half-quart too much. The book was packed away and a recent magazine article said to check it on the stand. I just checked the service manual and while the picture seems to show it on the stand, it says to check it while it's upright. The nice part is that they bled the rear brake and actually washed the bike. I was going to replace the brake fluids in the front and rear any way but it's nice that they took care of it. While I was waiting on the Hawg to get out of the shop, I wandered over to the Sun Honda dealer and they have a 2002 Hayabusa with 11k and priced at $8.2k. No apparent scratches or dings on it. The sales guy didn't know why it was traded in. Hmmmm. They also had a Blackbird with similar miles and a Kawasaki (not sure which; what's the equivalent in power?). It seems like a reasonable price, perhaps a tad high. I checked various web sites and excluding the fraudulant e-bay ads (did you see the 'busa with the 14" swingarm stretch???), it seems about right. Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 10 20:31:19 2004 Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 17:30:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott Moyer Subject: Re: COTU - SE Ohio To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Why's Jeff a maggot? Just for making up some t-shirts? moyer ------------- From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'DCCycles'" Subject: COTU - SE Ohio Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 16:58:28 -0400 555 isn't as nice as the Dragon, but it's closer. This spring's healthy helping of cinders left over from the winter certainly made it "puckier", especially in Friday night's (May 7) rain. A Maggot arranged "t- shirts" http://cafeshops.com/jeffconlin Surf Ohio indeed. Carl in Bethesda Cross winds on Rt 60 & I-68 were fun too. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 10 21:36:51 2004 From: "Bruce N" To: Subject: Re: COTU - SE Ohio Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 21:34:36 -0400 Members of the Sab/Mag list are known as maggots. Nice. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Moyer" To: Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 8:30 PM Subject: Re: COTU - SE Ohio > Why's Jeff a maggot? Just for making up some t-shirts? > > moyer > > > ------------- > > From: "Custer, Carl" > To: "'DCCycles'" > Subject: COTU - SE Ohio > Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 16:58:28 -0400 > > 555 isn't as nice as the Dragon, but it's closer. This spring's healthy > helping of cinders left over from the winter certainly made it "puckier", > especially in Friday night's (May 7) rain. > A Maggot arranged "t- shirts" > http://cafeshops.com/jeffconlin > > Surf Ohio indeed. > > Carl in Bethesda > Cross winds on Rt 60 & I-68 were fun too. > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 07:55:01 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 04:54:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 To: DC Cycles here is the answer i got. What a SCAM!!!! --- mark hermes wrote: > Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 04:43:06 -0700 (PDT) > From: mark hermes > Subject: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 > To: Mark Kitchell > > Yes the price is 1800$. > I am from London and I sell this bike because is > registered in US > I can send you the bike via DHL and if you are > interested I will pay all shipping taxes. > Tell me if you are realy interested to start the > deal with me, > > > Mark Kitchell wrote: > Hi, is price correct? It seems very low. > > Thanks > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 08:42:20 2004 From: "Gary Foreman" To: "'DC Cycles'" Subject: RE: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 08:45:14 -0400 Yeah, I got the same answer. It's a SCAM for sure. Gary -----Original Message----- From: Mark Kitchell [mailto:markkitchell@XXXXXX] Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 7:55 AM To: DC Cycles Subject: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 here is the answer i got. What a SCAM!!!! --- mark hermes wrote: > Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 04:43:06 -0700 (PDT) > From: mark hermes > Subject: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 > To: Mark Kitchell > > Yes the price is 1800$. > I am from London and I sell this bike because is registered in US I > can send you the bike via DHL and if you are interested I will pay all > shipping taxes. > Tell me if you are realy interested to start the deal with me, > > > Mark Kitchell wrote: > Hi, is price correct? It seems very low. > > Thanks > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 09:01:18 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 09:00:31 -0400 (EDT) From: dan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: camping Thanks for all the recommendations, on-list and offline. We ended up staying in Big Meadows on Skyline. Very nice campground, clean bathrooms and friendly staff. Good thing we caged it, it POURED for 2 hours straight on Skyline. I have never seen rain like that before and I've been in two hurricanes with 100 plus winds. I couldn't see anything except for a yellow line on the road 3 feet in front of the bumper. -- From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 09:02:23 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 06:02:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Ray Subject: Route to Louisville, KY To: DC Cycles I'm headed to Louisville in a bit over a week, and considering riding. I'll be leaving from Alexandria on Friday morning, returning the following Sunday. Mapquest puts it at a bit over 600 miles, slabbing it. 270 to 70 to 68 to 79/77 to 64. Are there better routes? The twin goals of making time & nice roadways are both important. I'll be taking the Bandit (GSF 1200S), and I should have a gel seat by then. I might be a bit sore by the end of 10 hours, but it seems doable. Thanks, Brian __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 10:50:24 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 07:50:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: Route to Louisville, KY To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Some many options... Looking at the map Louisville is almost due west of Huntington, WV. If it were me, I'd head south and play around the roads near I-64 and work my way over. There are so many good roads going through WV in that area you might have a hard time finding a bad one. I might do something along these lines: Work my way to Lexington, VA and pick up VA 39 west which turns into WV 39 (an awesome road BTW) and will get you most of the way to Charleston, WV. From there I don't know the roads all that well but looking at the map (and knowing the terrain) it looks like you should be able to find some other decent roads or if you are crunching on time you can jump on I-64 and slab it over to Louisville. Please let us know what routes you end up using and how decent they are. Glenn --- Brian Ray wrote: > I'm headed to Louisville in a bit over a week, and > considering riding. I'll be leaving from Alexandria > on Friday morning, returning the following Sunday. > Mapquest puts it at a bit over 600 miles, slabbing > it. > 270 to 70 to 68 to 79/77 to 64. > > Are there better routes? The twin goals of making > time & nice roadways are both important. > > I'll be taking the Bandit (GSF 1200S), and I should > have a gel seat by then. I might be a bit sore by > the > end of 10 hours, but it seems doable. > > Thanks, > > Brian > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 11:02:56 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:02:43 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: Glenn Dysart , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Route to Louisville, KY -----Original Message----- From: Glenn Dysart Some many options... Looking at the map Louisville is almost due west of Huntington, WV. If it were me, I'd head south and play around the roads near I-64 and work my way over. There are so many good roads going through WV in that area you might have a hard time finding a bad one. ---------------- Make sure your ride US 60 past Hawk's Nest State Park in WV. Thank me when you get home. Following up on Glenn's suggestion, take VA/WV 39 all the way to Summersville**, then cut down US19 a bit, to US 60. 60 goes to Charleston, where you can pick up the slab again. **Watch out for the po-po in Summersville. It's a major speed trap. Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 11:08:46 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 08:08:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: camping To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Dan, was this on Friday? We rode through Flint Hill Saturday ~ 9:00 AM and it looked like a tornado had been through there. Many, many trees down, and mud and gravel completely_covering_the_roads in some areas. Glenn --- dan wrote: > Thanks for all the recommendations, on-list and > offline. We ended up > staying in Big Meadows on Skyline. Very nice > campground, clean bathrooms > and friendly staff. Good thing we caged it, it > POURED for 2 hours > straight on Skyline. I have never seen rain like > that before and I've > been in two hurricanes with 100 plus winds. I > couldn't see anything > except for a yellow line on the road 3 feet in front > of the bumper. > > -- > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 11:37:56 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:34:33 -0400 From: Skip To: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Ride to Work Day 2004 (was: Lunch at Shirlington) I vote for the brogue. I grew up in that area. "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" wrote: > > --- Paul Wilson wrote: > > > Anyway, mark your calendars, folks. Ride To Work Day is July 21st. That means > > Ride To Lunch Day for the Alex.-Arl.-Crystal City bunch. > > Let's see, this will be the 38th annual Ride to Lunch Day, won't it? > > Never too early to start planning. Shirlington (brewpub?) again (nice and > central)? Old Irish Brogue in Great Falls (nice twisties through the "country")? > Mango Mike's on Duke St. near Landmark Plaza (or near CompUSA for this crowd)? > Murphy's in Falls Church (near Coleman PowerSlime)? Other ideas? > > -- Larry > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 11:40:03 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:36:57 -0400 From: Skip To: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Guess what... I've yet to see my first one. --skip "Daniel H. Brown" wrote: > > They're here... > > http://brauhaus.org/~brown/images/cicada.jpg > > (taken this morning in my back yard) > > -- > Dan Brown > brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 11:40:26 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:40:00 -0400 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Harley Update At 05:29 PM 5/10/04 -0700, Carl Schelin wrote: >Just for closure (sort of). Glad your fork problem was so simple to fix. >The engine light was related to an overfull oil tank. It seems I filled it >while on the jiffy stand rather than standing it up and I put about a >half-quart too much. The book was packed away and a recent magazine Owner's manual on mine says vertical. When on the jiffy stand the filler neck is higher than normal, so the dip stick will read lower. If you fill to the "full" mark, you'll have way too much. On the other hand, if you fill it properly, put it on the jiffy stand, and check the level, so you know where "full" reads when it's tilted, you should be able to check it on the jiffy stand all the time. I'm guessing the "check it vertical" thing is to make it easier on the mechanics, who are going to be checking it after service, and it will be vertical on their lift. I don't know why they don't mark the dip stick with "on jiffy" and "off jiffy" level marks, but a small jeweler's file should fix it (unless some more knowledgeable types here point out where I'm missing something critical ;-). >The nice part is that they bled the rear brake and actually washed the >bike. Batley's always washes the bike after service...unless you want it in a hurry or something, like the guy picking his up the other night with an approaching thunderstorm. Had a similar problem Sunday night. I swapped the slip-ons for ones with better flow (and sound...deeper note, but not much louder). Took me almost 4 hours, including polishing the fingerprints off of the chrome. Two factors made it take more than about 45 minutes: 1) getting the old ones off, 2) trying to make things easier while putting the new ones on. 1) The clamps crimp the slip-ons to the header pipes, and they really don't want to come off, even after you remove the clamps. You can't horse them around too much, or you'll wreck the seals where the headers go into the exhaust ports, so it's a matter of penetrating oil, hold the header as steady as you can, and wiggle the muffler slowly off the header. Takes a lot of patience. If I ever do it again, I'm going to get the seal kit for the headers, and just remove everything, then separate the headers and the mufflers once it's all off the bike. That way I can wiggle all I like and get them off a lot quicker. Once I had the old ones off, the new ones went on easily...except for issue #2. 2) The rear muffler's clamp is located directly below the passenger footboard support. The nut is under the support, with a gap of about 1/2". Getting it off was a job for a box wrench, but since it's torqued to 45-60 ft/lbs, there just isn't enough leverage, or space to get a good grip on the wrench in the first place. An open-end wrench and a mallet worked to hammer it over to loosen the clamp, but the same trick wouldn't work for putting it back on. "I'll just remove the foot board and flip the clamp over, so I can get a socket (and torque wrench) on it!" I thought. Worked great too. Got it all on, torqued and looking good...even had clearance for the footboard to go back on...little arch there looked like it was made for clearing the clamp nut. Then I went to put the heat shields back on...oops. With the clamp on the other side, there was a big clamp nut in the way of replacing the heat shield. Clamp only has two possible positions...the one you can torque, and the one you can't, and the heat shield only fits the one you can't. Damn. Removing the saddle bag, foot board support, and bag bar attachment would have let me get a torque wrench on the clamp nut, but at that point I wasn't interested in that much work (I put the bag bars on...it was a PITA too), so I just used the box wrench, pulled as hard as I could, and checked it for leaks. Looks ok, but we'll see. Learning experience. Anyway, after all that (and the other jobs I got done on Sunday for the house and yard) I decided I deserved some ice cream from a friend's new shop (Coldstone Creamery, in Olney)...and the bike needed a test ride anyway. They'd been predicting thunderstorms at 50% chance all day, and so far it was all blue sky, so I headed out about 8:30pm. Got my ice cream about 9:30pm (long line...popular place!), and was eating it outside, watching the western sky. Saw stars, so I wasn't too worried, but then the flashes started down near the horizon. Lots of lightning coming. There'd been a storm north of Olney when I got there, but that one wasn't a problem. This one was due west, and headed in my direction. Got a lid for the ice cream, put it in a plastic bag, and stashed it in the saddle bag, and headed home...going west, toward the storm. Temps started dropping, wind started kicking up, some pretty impressive flashes, some sky-to-ground, both north and south and directly ahead of my direction of travel. Started looking for places to get out if it, in case I didn't make it home in time. Bank drive-ups, parking garages, overpasses, even the front walks of outdoor malls and gas stations with covered pumps. I had the rain suit in the saddle bag, but I preferred not to have to use it. Made it home anyway, but it was getting close, and lightning can travel 20 miles from a storm to hit you. All went well, but it was getting pretty tense every time I got stuck at a red light, or behind some cage doing 5mph under the speed limit in the left lane, next to some cage doing the same in the right. I just wanted to get out of the weather ASAP. I'd washed it just before I started the muffler work...much nicer working on a clean bike...so I guess the storm was inevitable. :-) >While I was waiting on the Hawg to get out of the shop, I wandered over to >the Sun Honda dealer and they have a 2002 Hayabusa with 11k and priced at >$8.2k. No apparent scratches or dings on it. The sales guy didn't know why >it was traded in. Hmmmm. Any seat stains? :-) -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 11:40:32 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:41:50 -0400 To: "Gary Foreman" , "'DC Cycles'" From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 Might want to point it out to e-bay. Save some poor idiot a learning experience and some cash. Might even get the british cops onto the guy. -- Mike B. At 08:45 AM 5/11/04 -0400, Gary Foreman wrote: >Yeah, I got the same answer. It's a SCAM for sure. > >Gary > >-----Original Message----- >From: Mark Kitchell [mailto:markkitchell@XXXXXX] >Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 7:55 AM >To: DC Cycles >Subject: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 > >here is the answer i got. What a SCAM!!!! > > >--- mark hermes wrote: >> Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 04:43:06 -0700 (PDT) >> From: mark hermes >> Subject: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 >> To: Mark Kitchell >> >> Yes the price is 1800$. >> I am from London and I sell this bike because is registered in US I >> can send you the bike via DHL and if you are interested I will pay all >> shipping taxes. >> Tell me if you are realy interested to start the deal with me, >> >> >> Mark Kitchell wrote: >> Hi, is price correct? It seems very low. >> >> Thanks >> >> >> >> >> >> __________________________________ >> Do you Yahoo!? >> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs >> http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover >> >> --------------------------------- >> Do you Yahoo!? >> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs > > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs >http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 11:43:11 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:44:30 -0400 To: Skip , DC Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Guess what... I usually hear them before I see them. So far all's quiet up here in the north country... :-) -- Mike B. At 11:36 AM 5/11/04 -0400, Skip wrote: >I've yet to see my first one. > >--skip > >"Daniel H. Brown" wrote: >> >> They're here... >> >> http://brauhaus.org/~brown/images/cicada.jpg >> >> (taken this morning in my back yard) >> >> -- >> Dan Brown >> brown@XXXXXX > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 11:45:10 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:42:01 -0400 From: Skip CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: COTU - SE Ohio It's a title to be worn with pride! anyone can own a Sabre or a Magna, but it takes a different kind of person to truly be a maggot. --skip Bruce N wrote: > > Members of the Sab/Mag list are known as maggots. Nice. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scott Moyer" > To: > Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 8:30 PM > Subject: Re: COTU - SE Ohio > > > Why's Jeff a maggot? Just for making up some t-shirts? > > > > moyer > > > > > > ------------- > > > > From: "Custer, Carl" > > To: "'DCCycles'" > > Subject: COTU - SE Ohio > > Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 16:58:28 -0400 > > > > 555 isn't as nice as the Dragon, but it's closer. This spring's healthy > > helping of cinders left over from the winter certainly made it "puckier", > > especially in Friday night's (May 7) rain. > > A Maggot arranged "t- shirts" > > http://cafeshops.com/jeffconlin > > > > Surf Ohio indeed. > > > > Carl in Bethesda > > Cross winds on Rt 60 & I-68 were fun too. > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs > > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > > > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 11:45:11 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:44:54 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Guess what... On Tue, 11 May 2004, Mike Bartman wrote: > Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:44:30 -0400 > From: Mike Bartman > To: Skip , DC Cycles > Subject: Re: Guess what... > > I usually hear them before I see them. So far all's quiet up here in the > north country... :-) > I've seen easily a couple dozen in the back yard, but none out on the other side of the house, yet. -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 12:39:07 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 09:38:40 -0700 (PDT) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Harley Update To: Mike Bartman , Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: >.... I don't know why they don't mark the dip stick with "on jiffy" and > "off jiffy" level marks, but a small jeweler's file should fix it (unless > some more knowledgeable types here point out where I'm missing something > critical ;-). On some bikes, depending on the sump design, when it's on the stand, the oil might not reach the dip stick at all. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 12:39:42 2004 From: "Jim McGonigle" To: "'Skip'" , "'DC Cycles'" Subject: RE: Guess what... Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 12:39:41 -0400 Saw one on my screen door last night. Germantown, MD. -----Original Message----- From: Skip [mailto:skip@XXXXXX] Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 11:37 AM To: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Guess what... I've yet to see my first one. --skip "Daniel H. Brown" wrote: > > They're here... > > http://brauhaus.org/~brown/images/cicada.jpg > > (taken this morning in my back yard) > > -- > Dan Brown > brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 13:00:26 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 10:00:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Harley Update To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" wrote: > --- Mike Bartman wrote: > >.... I don't know why they don't mark the dip stick with "on jiffy" and > > "off jiffy" level marks, but a small jeweler's file should fix it > (unless > > some more knowledgeable types here point out where I'm missing > something > > critical ;-). > > On some bikes, depending on the sump design, when it's on the stand, the > oil > might not reach the dip stick at all. True. On the Softail, the oil showed about a half-quart low. I may make the mod Mike suggests, just to make it easier to check the oil. Keeping it balanced while checking leaves a lot of variables (did I move it too far this way for example). > > -- Larry > Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 13:03:48 2004 Subject: Regional Rant Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 13:07:19 -0400 From: "Julian Halton" To: "DC Cycles" So yesterday, I decide to leave work circa 2:30pm head out to my favorite moto store for some supplies. Without looking out my window, I decided on 66 West from Ballston. I hit the entrance ramp and spend thirty three minutes in my FieldSheer Mach 1 to take the next exit 69 (Falls Church). Does anyone know where all these people come from? This is the first time in my life I have had a job with somewhat flexible time....are all these folk on flex time? When I take a day off and get into DC for lunch I am always amazed at the amount of humanity.....Don't all these people have jobs? Are they all playing hooky at once? I am flabbergasted by the amount of traffic even during off hours. Rush hour should be renamed Rush day because according to my empirical research it goes from 5:45 AM until 8:45 PM. What gives? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 13:22:06 2004 From: To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Harley Update Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 13:21:57 -0400 > > From: Carl Schelin > Date: 2004/05/11 Tue PM 01:00:23 EDT > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Harley Update > > > --- "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" wrote: > > --- Mike Bartman wrote: > > >.... I don't know why they don't mark the dip stick with "on jiffy" and > > > "off jiffy" level marks, but a small jeweler's file should fix it > > (unless > > > some more knowledgeable types here point out where I'm missing > > something > > > critical ;-). > > > > On some bikes, depending on the sump design, when it's on the stand, the > > oil > > might not reach the dip stick at all. > > True. On the Softail, the oil showed about a half-quart low. I may make > the mod Mike suggests, just to make it easier to check the oil. Keeping it > balanced while checking leaves a lot of variables (did I move it too far > this way for example). > > > > -- Larry > > > > Carl > odd. In the service manual for my 01 WideGlide, it specifically states that all oil checks should be done with the jiffy stand *down* and the bike leaning. -aki From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 14:03:49 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 10:55:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 To: mark hermes Ok, I am interested but is the bike in the US? If it is in England then how is it registered in the US. Its very important to me that it is a legal bike in the US. Who pays the shipping fee? How much is that? --- mark hermes wrote: > Yes the price is 1800$. > I am from London and I sell this bike because is > registered in US > I can send you the bike via DHL and if you are > interested I will pay all shipping taxes. > Tell me if you are realy interested to start the > deal with me, > > > Mark Kitchell wrote: > Hi, is price correct? It seems very low. > > Thanks > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 14:07:19 2004 X-OB-Received: from unknown (205.158.62.49) by wfilter.us4.outblaze.com; 11 May 2004 18:07:08 -0000 From: "Euan Fisk" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 13:07:08 -0500 Subject: Ducati Monster 900 for Sale A friend is selling his '95 Ducati Monster 900: ____________________ $4,000. Need a quick sale, leaving country. I bought this new in 1996. Garage kept until last week. Ferracci carbon fiber exhaust, 11:1 pistons, crg hindsight bar-end mirrors, 12k miles, new BT-020 tires, new clutch slave cylinder, new belts, new chain. Email to jetcyclist@XXXXXX for pics -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 14:22:18 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 14:22:08 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Regional Rant On Tue, 11 May 2004, Julian Halton wrote: > Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 13:07:19 -0400 > From: Julian Halton > To: DC Cycles > Subject: Regional Rant > > > So yesterday, I decide to leave work circa 2:30pm head out to my > favorite moto store for some supplies. Without looking out my window, I > decided on 66 West from Ballston. The "not looking out the window" was the first mistake, the second, of course, trying to take THAT exit onto 66. I don't think that there are ANY good times of day for that exit. None. Ever. Just Say No. A better route from there would be just to get onto Washington Blvd, in Ballston, go through Westover (maybe stop at the 'Dog for a beer ;-) past the metro, up the hill and turn left at the Exxon station, over into Falls Church. Third mistake, of course, is going to that particular moto store, IMO, but... that is a whole 'nother topic. -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 14:34:12 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 14:34:35 -0400 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Harley Update At 10:00 AM 5/11/04 -0700, Carl Schelin wrote: >--- "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" wrote: >> might not reach the dip stick at all. > >True. On the Softail, the oil showed about a half-quart low. I may make >the mod Mike suggests, just to make it easier to check the oil. Keeping it >balanced while checking leaves a lot of variables (did I move it too far >this way for example). Yeah, and if you aren't using a stand of some sort to hold it up, there's also the "slosh factor". -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 14:35:13 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 14:32:50 -0400 To: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" , Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Harley Update At 09:38 AM 5/11/04 -0700, pltrgyst@XXXXXX wrote: >--- Mike Bartman wrote: >>.... I don't know why they don't mark the dip stick with "on jiffy" and >> "off jiffy" level marks, but a small jeweler's file should fix it (unless >> some more knowledgeable types here point out where I'm missing something >> critical ;-). > >On some bikes, depending on the sump design, when it's on the stand, the oil >might not reach the dip stick at all. That would be a problem. On mine, it does though. When the level is correct, and it's on the jiffy stand and on more or less level ground (like my garage...very slight slope for drainage, but nothing that will affect a reading) it reads about 3/4" up from the end of the stick...down near the "add" line. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 14:35:15 2004 Subject: Moto question raised at lunch Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 14:39:14 -0400 From: "Julian Halton" To: "DC Cycles" What do you all think about the following scenario: A father picks up his 11 year old daughter and takes her to school in the morning on his bike. This came up at lunch and I was curious to see how a group of educated moto riders reacts when they see or hear of a parent taking their child for a ride. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 14:35:40 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 14:35:36 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Regional Rant To: DC Cycles Julian typed in a fit of traffic induced rage: >So yesterday, I decide to leave work circa 2:30pm head out >to my favorite moto store for some supplies. Without >looking out my window, ...66 West from Ballston. ...entrance >ramp ...thirty three minutes ...to the next exit 69 (Falls >Church). Does anyone know where all these people come from? [Dave] The usual way. You know... A man and a woman get together, and they um... well... like each other... one thing leads to another and, bada-bing, bada-bang, there they are! >This is the first time in my life I have had a job with >somewhat flexible time....are all these folk on flex time? [Dave] Not a chance. First, I suggest lining your helmet as a faraday cage. If you don't, all the members of the Idiot Network(tm) will be able to know where you are, and where you're going. As soon as you decide where to go, the Idiot Network will send their minions to interfere with your plans. Still, even the vast horde of the idiot network cannot account for all these bodies... You've got contractors, stay at home spouses shuttling back and forth for chores, unemployed folks looking for a job, unemployed folks going to collect unemployment, people just out for a spin, shift workers, people who took off to go to DMV/MVA, and many more... >When I take a day off and get into DC for lunch I am always >amazed at the amount of humanity.....Don't all these people >have jobs? Are they all playing hooky at once? I am >flabbergasted by the amount of traffic even during >off hours. Rush hour should be renamed Rush day because >according to my empirical research it goes from 5:45 AM >until 8:45 PM. What gives? [Dave] Too many people, not enough land. Too many of _those_ (the too many mentioned above) people feel like they're entitled to drive. Some of _those_ folks are convinced that their time is exponentially more important than yours. Screw affordable housing, we need exclusive housing so we can drive people away. Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 14:51:37 2004 From: bernescut@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Moto question raised at lunch Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 14:51:10 -0400 As long as the tires aren't inflated above 32 psi and only he's using synthetic oil, it should be OK :) Seriously, my concerns would be about safety gear (properly sized full-face helmet, riding pants, jacket and good boots), whether the child can safely reach the pegs, etc. Cedric Bernescut 2000 CBR600F4 Annandale, VA Samuel Colt: The inventor of the original point & click interface. What do you all think about the following scenario: A father picks up his 11 year old daughter and takes her to school in the morning on his bike. This came up at lunch and I was curious to see how a group of educated moto riders reacts when they see or hear of a parent taking their child for a ride. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 14:53:36 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:53:29 -0700 (PDT) From: matthew patton Subject: carb setup for a Yam Radian 600? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX A couple people on this list had Radians recently. Any of you have some good setup tips for the carbs? I'm rescuing a friend's bike blind. ie. no manuals, no nothing. ===== "If you believe what you like in the Gospels, and reject what you do not like, it is not the Gospel you believe, but yourself." -- Augustine of Hippo (AD 354-430) * A successful marriage isn't finding the right person; it's being the right person. * Liberalism always generates the exact opposite of its stated intent. -- Jim Quinn (www.warroom.com) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 14:55:58 2004 Subject: RE: Moto question raised at lunch Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 14:55:48 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Julian Halton" , "DC Cycles" She's got properly fitting helmet, jacket, boots, gloves, and pants? She can reach the passenger pegs on the bike? What's the issue again? Or, more properly, why does it matter (all other factors being equal) if the offspring in question is eleven, twenty-two, or even female? ;-) Robert -----Original Message----- From: Julian Halton [mailto:julian@XXXXXX] Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 2:39 PM To: DC Cycles Subject: Moto question raised at lunch What do you all think about the following scenario: A father picks up his 11 year old daughter and takes her to school in the morning on his bike. This came up at lunch and I was curious to see how a group of educated moto riders reacts when they see or hear of a parent taking their child for a ride. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 15:02:15 2004 From: "Jim McGonigle" To: "'Verde, Robert'" , "'Julian Halton'" , "'DC Cycles'" Subject: RE: Moto question raised at lunch Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 15:02:12 -0400 The issue is that as motorcyclist we take extra risks that we have all accepted. I would hate to see a child seriously injured without them being able to make the decision if the risk is worth it (when they are old enough to understand it). But I guess if they are properly fitted and your not lane splitting in rush hour, I wouldn't think too harshly about it. I've heard about a local guy on a bike (non motorized) with a kid carrier on the back sometimes. I think that's more dangerous than what you are suggesting since the child is younger and I think bikes are more dangerous on the road than motorcycles. -Jim -----Original Message----- From: Verde, Robert [mailto:Robert.Verde@XXXXXX] Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 2:56 PM To: Julian Halton; DC Cycles Subject: RE: Moto question raised at lunch She's got properly fitting helmet, jacket, boots, gloves, and pants? She can reach the passenger pegs on the bike? What's the issue again? Or, more properly, why does it matter (all other factors being equal) if the offspring in question is eleven, twenty-two, or even female? ;-) Robert -----Original Message----- From: Julian Halton [mailto:julian@XXXXXX] Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 2:39 PM To: DC Cycles Subject: Moto question raised at lunch What do you all think about the following scenario: A father picks up his 11 year old daughter and takes her to school in the morning on his bike. This came up at lunch and I was curious to see how a group of educated moto riders reacts when they see or hear of a parent taking their child for a ride. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 15:06:40 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 15:06:26 -0400 To: "DC Cycles" From: Troutman Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch My neighbor takes his daughter ~9yo to school every day on his R1150 BMW. Full leather and helmets for her, short sleeves for him. Never thought twice about it. At 02:39 PM 5/11/2004, Julian Halton wrote: >What do you all think about the following scenario: >A father picks up his 11 year old daughter and takes her to school in >the morning on his bike. This came up at lunch and I was curious to see >how a group of educated moto riders reacts when they see or hear of a >parent taking their child for a ride. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles. One who does not know the enemy but knows himself will sometimes win, sometimes lose. One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself will be in danger in every battle. - Sun Tzu From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 15:06:48 2004 Subject: RE: Moto question raised at lunch Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 15:10:50 -0400 From: "Julian Halton" To: "Jim McGonigle" , "Verde, Robert" , "DC Cycles" That was what I was getting at..taking a "kid" whether it be as passenger on in some kid carrying device, we are assuming a level of risk not only for ourselves but for someone else maybe not mature enough to understand. I respect the opinions on this list so I thought I would ask how you all felt in general about taking your child out for a spin. I pissed off half my co-workers at lunch today by saying I will never give up going to the gym or motorcycling for a relationship. Someone spat back..."wait till you have kids, you going to take junior to school on your crotch rocket"..and that got the wheels turning so I said let's see what those in the know think about it. -----Original Message----- From: Jim McGonigle [mailto:jmcgonigle@XXXXXX] Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 3:02 PM To: 'Verde, Robert'; Julian Halton; 'DC Cycles' Subject: RE: Moto question raised at lunch The issue is that as motorcyclist we take extra risks that we have all accepted. I would hate to see a child seriously injured without them being able to make the decision if the risk is worth it (when they are old enough to understand it). But I guess if they are properly fitted and your not lane splitting in rush hour, I wouldn't think too harshly about it. I've heard about a local guy on a bike (non motorized) with a kid carrier on the back sometimes. I think that's more dangerous than what you are suggesting since the child is younger and I think bikes are more dangerous on the road than motorcycles. -Jim -----Original Message----- From: Verde, Robert [mailto:Robert.Verde@XXXXXX] Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 2:56 PM To: Julian Halton; DC Cycles Subject: RE: Moto question raised at lunch She's got properly fitting helmet, jacket, boots, gloves, and pants? She can reach the passenger pegs on the bike? What's the issue again? Or, more properly, why does it matter (all other factors being equal) if the offspring in question is eleven, twenty-two, or even female? ;-) Robert -----Original Message----- From: Julian Halton [mailto:julian@XXXXXX] Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 2:39 PM To: DC Cycles Subject: Moto question raised at lunch What do you all think about the following scenario: A father picks up his 11 year old daughter and takes her to school in the morning on his bike. This came up at lunch and I was curious to see how a group of educated moto riders reacts when they see or hear of a parent taking their child for a ride. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 15:09:10 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 15:09:00 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: "Verde,Robert" , Julian Halton , DC Cycles Subject: RE: Moto question raised at lunch -----Original Message----- From: "Verde, Robert" She's got properly fitting helmet, jacket, boots, gloves, and pants? She can reach the passenger pegs on the bike? What's the issue again? Or, more properly, why does it matter (all other factors being equal) if the offspring in question is eleven, twenty-two, or even female? ;-) Robert -----Original Message----- From: Julian Halton [mailto:julian@XXXXXX] What do you all think about the following scenario: A father picks up his 11 year old daughter and takes her to school in the morning on his bike. This came up at lunch and I was curious to see how a group of educated moto riders reacts when they see or hear of a parent taking their child for a ride. ---------------- Well, if your name is Del. Jean Cryor (Dickens would be proud) then this is a burning issue worthy of the Md. state legislature's attentions. Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 15:10:58 2004 From: Jason Picton To: "'Julian Halton'" , Jim McGonigle , "Verde, Robert" , DC Cycles Subject: RE: Moto question raised at lunch Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 15:10:18 -0400 umm... you can get killed crossing the street... I would imagine that if you are careful - it's not a big deal to take a kid on a bike.... It might even be safer if you are being extra careful since it's on a bike - whereas, if car you might not be as mindful - if you are on autopilot while driving instead of riding... I don't know about the rest of you... But when I ride - my mind is on the road and what can happen to me if I am not aware - but when I drive, I am not so alert....... Jason -----Original Message----- From: Julian Halton [mailto:julian@XXXXXX] Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 3:11 PM To: Jim McGonigle; Verde, Robert; DC Cycles Subject: RE: Moto question raised at lunch That was what I was getting at..taking a "kid" whether it be as passenger on in some kid carrying device, we are assuming a level of risk not only for ourselves but for someone else maybe not mature enough to understand. I respect the opinions on this list so I thought I would ask how you all felt in general about taking your child out for a spin. I pissed off half my co-workers at lunch today by saying I will never give up going to the gym or motorcycling for a relationship. Someone spat back..."wait till you have kids, you going to take junior to school on your crotch rocket"..and that got the wheels turning so I said let's see what those in the know think about it. -----Original Message----- From: Jim McGonigle [mailto:jmcgonigle@XXXXXX] Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 3:02 PM To: 'Verde, Robert'; Julian Halton; 'DC Cycles' Subject: RE: Moto question raised at lunch The issue is that as motorcyclist we take extra risks that we have all accepted. I would hate to see a child seriously injured without them being able to make the decision if the risk is worth it (when they are old enough to understand it). But I guess if they are properly fitted and your not lane splitting in rush hour, I wouldn't think too harshly about it. I've heard about a local guy on a bike (non motorized) with a kid carrier on the back sometimes. I think that's more dangerous than what you are suggesting since the child is younger and I think bikes are more dangerous on the road than motorcycles. -Jim -----Original Message----- From: Verde, Robert [mailto:Robert.Verde@XXXXXX] Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 2:56 PM To: Julian Halton; DC Cycles Subject: RE: Moto question raised at lunch She's got properly fitting helmet, jacket, boots, gloves, and pants? She can reach the passenger pegs on the bike? What's the issue again? Or, more properly, why does it matter (all other factors being equal) if the offspring in question is eleven, twenty-two, or even female? ;-) Robert -----Original Message----- From: Julian Halton [mailto:julian@XXXXXX] Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 2:39 PM To: DC Cycles Subject: Moto question raised at lunch What do you all think about the following scenario: A father picks up his 11 year old daughter and takes her to school in the morning on his bike. This came up at lunch and I was curious to see how a group of educated moto riders reacts when they see or hear of a parent taking their child for a ride. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 15:11:30 2004 From: "Shigeru Honda" To: "DC Cycles" Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 15:09:14 -0400 I'd say there's no problem at all with proper skilled rider and gear. However, the general public opinion of non-motorcyclist would call that putting a child in extream danger or even treat as murder. Personally, I'm kind of sick and tired of non-motorcyclist thinking motorcyclist as stupid, reckless, suicidal, accident waiting to happen.... & bla bla bla I had to BS at work about my elbow & shoulder injury from the race at Summit Point on 4/18 as bicycle accident to avoid getting harassed.... sorry didn't meat to rant... --------------------- Shigeru Honda 98 SuperHawk (Street) 99 750 SS (Track #881) 02 MZ Skorpion Tour (Commuter) 91 CR80 (new toy) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julian Halton" To: "DC Cycles" Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 2:39 PM Subject: Moto question raised at lunch > > What do you all think about the following scenario: > A father picks up his 11 year old daughter and takes her to school in > the morning on his bike. This came up at lunch and I was curious to see > how a group of educated moto riders reacts when they see or hear of a > parent taking their child for a ride. > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 15:15:59 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 15:23:06 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "Kathleen E. Miller" Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch I grew up on the back of my Dad's Gold Wing. (Granted it's a car with two wheels). Sometimes he'd sit me in the front; sometimes in back-- always with helmet and "ankle boots." He's now a certified MSF instructor in Texas and I ride my own. Kathleen E. Miller At 02:39 PM 5/11/2004 -0400, Julian Halton wrote: > >What do you all think about the following scenario: >A father picks up his 11 year old daughter and takes her to school in >the morning on his bike. This came up at lunch and I was curious to see >how a group of educated moto riders reacts when they see or hear of a >parent taking their child for a ride. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 15:20:18 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 12:20:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Leon Begeman Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch To: Julian Halton , DC Cycles My 11 year old rides. But, where can I find some good foam earplugs for her. The ones I use are too large. Is there someplace where I can get an assortment of sizes so she can try several sizes on to see which is best. She's been riding since her legs were long enough to reach the passenger pegs. And on a Ninja 250, that's pretty small. Leon Begeman --- Julian Halton wrote: > > What do you all think about the following scenario: > A father picks up his 11 year old daughter and takes > her to school in > the morning on his bike. This came up at lunch and > I was curious to see > how a group of educated moto riders reacts when they > see or hear of a > parent taking their child for a ride. > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 15:24:50 2004 Subject: RE: Moto question raised at lunch - ear plugs Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 15:24:41 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Leon Begeman" , "Julian Halton" , "DC Cycles" Leon; I buy my ear plugs from Lab Safety Supply, they have quite a selection. http://www.labsafety.com/store/product_group.asp?dept_id=12620&cat_prefix=4WA Robert -----Original Message----- From: Leon Begeman [mailto:mriderleon@XXXXXX] Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 3:20 PM To: Julian Halton; DC Cycles Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch My 11 year old rides. But, where can I find some good foam earplugs for her. The ones I use are too large. Is there someplace where I can get an assortment of sizes so she can try several sizes on to see which is best. She's been riding since her legs were long enough to reach the passenger pegs. And on a Ninja 250, that's pretty small. Leon Begeman __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 15:26:33 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 15:26:11 -0400 To: "Jim McGonigle" , "'Verde, Robert'" , "'Julian Halton'" , "'DC Cycles'" From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: Moto question raised at lunch At 03:02 PM 5/11/04 -0400, Jim McGonigle wrote: > >The issue is that as motorcyclist we take extra risks that we have all >accepted. I would hate to see a child seriously injured without them being >able to make the decision if the risk is worth it (when they are old enough >to understand it). The same is true for a ride in a car. The risk values are slightly different, but riding in a car is still more risky than not riding in a car, most of the time anyway (if you are bleeding to death, things change for instance). If the question is valid for a ride on a bike, it is just as valid for a ride in a car. The actual level of risk isn't as important to the question as that it rises in either case. Of course, they say that most accidents happen within 20 miles of home, so the farther you can get the kid away from there, there better... :-) I'd worry about any kid too young to hold on, or understand the rules for being a passenger on a bike, but an 11 year old should be old enough to handle both of those things. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 15:26:45 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 12:26:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Leon Begeman Subject: RE: Moto question raised at lunch To: Jim McGonigle , "'Verde, Robert'" , "'Julian Halton'" , "'DC Cycles'" --- Jim McGonigle wrote: > But I guess if they are properly fitted and your not > lane splitting in rush > hour, I wouldn't think too harshly about it. I would think that a bigger problem would be lane splitting when it isn't rush hour. Inside DC, I split lanes if I can do it while maintaining a speed of 15mph or slower. If I have to go faster than 15, I don't need to split. When my 11 year old daughter is riding with me, I split lanes the same way that I would if I had a 60 lb box on the back of the bike. Which is to say, that yes I would split lanes, but not quite as aggressively as when the bike isn't so heavily loaded. Leon. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 15:33:10 2004 From: "Jim McGonigle" To: "'Mike Bartman'" , "'Verde, Robert'" , "'Julian Halton'" , "'DC Cycles'" Subject: RE: Moto question raised at lunch Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 15:33:09 -0400 The risk levels of a child riding in a car in a child seat vs a motorcycle is night and day. Its not a fair comparison. Even a simple low side on a bike could kill or permanantly injury a child when an adult might walk away with minor injuries. It would take one hell of a wreak to do that in a car. IMHO, -Jim -----Original Message----- From: Mike Bartman [mailto:omni@XXXXXX] Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 3:26 PM To: Jim McGonigle; 'Verde, Robert'; 'Julian Halton'; 'DC Cycles' Subject: RE: Moto question raised at lunch At 03:02 PM 5/11/04 -0400, Jim McGonigle wrote: > >The issue is that as motorcyclist we take extra risks that we have all >accepted. I would hate to see a child seriously injured without them >being able to make the decision if the risk is worth it (when they are >old enough to understand it). The same is true for a ride in a car. The risk values are slightly different, but riding in a car is still more risky than not riding in a car, most of the time anyway (if you are bleeding to death, things change for instance). If the question is valid for a ride on a bike, it is just as valid for a ride in a car. The actual level of risk isn't as important to the question as that it rises in either case. Of course, they say that most accidents happen within 20 miles of home, so the farther you can get the kid away from there, there better... :-) I'd worry about any kid too young to hold on, or understand the rules for being a passenger on a bike, but an 11 year old should be old enough to handle both of those things. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 15:35:54 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 15:32:47 -0400 From: Skip CC: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch Interesting timing for this... my 9yo daughter wants to ride with me. I tell her that she cannot until we have proper equipment: helmet, jacket, pants. She just had her first communion, and got about $100 in gift. after the party, the first thing she said was, "can we go buy a helmet so I can ride with you?" ahhhh yes. this is gonna be great. I'm training a rider the way they should be trained. all the scenarios are going through my mind... her first dirtbike, her first street bike, a little moto-touring with my daughter. this is one of the rewards of parenting that I'm looking for.... My wife come to me the other day, and says, " no f*ck|ng way in hell! It's too dangerous!" so now I'm in a quandry. she wants to ride, i want her to ride with me. her mother is dead set against it. to Deb's credit, she has ridden, and wrecked before. she knows it's the cars that kill us, and that they are largely out of our control. I cannot oppose her logic. it -is- dangerous -- more dangerous than driving a car. it is a risk that she is not willing to let me accept for my daughter. so, how to proceed? I'm thinking that i will slowly acquire the gear, and take her for short rides at first, until Deb gets used to the idea. --skip Julian Halton wrote: > > > What do you all think about the following scenario: > A father picks up his 11 year old daughter and takes her to school in > the morning on his bike. This came up at lunch and I was curious to see > how a group of educated moto riders reacts when they see or hear of a > parent taking their child for a ride. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 15:48:06 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 15:48:32 -0400 To: "Jim McGonigle" , "'Verde, Robert'" , "'Julian Halton'" , "'DC Cycles'" From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: Moto question raised at lunch Where do you find child seats for 11 year olds? Don't know about your experiences, but when I was 11 I could take falls without damage that might put me in traction these days... -- Mike B. At 03:33 PM 5/11/04 -0400, Jim McGonigle wrote: > >The risk levels of a child riding in a car in a child seat vs a motorcycle >is night and day. Its not a fair comparison. Even a simple low side on a >bike could kill or permanantly injury a child when an adult might walk away >with minor injuries. It would take one hell of a wreak to do that in a car. > >IMHO, >-Jim > >-----Original Message----- >From: Mike Bartman [mailto:omni@XXXXXX] >Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 3:26 PM >To: Jim McGonigle; 'Verde, Robert'; 'Julian Halton'; 'DC Cycles' >Subject: RE: Moto question raised at lunch > >At 03:02 PM 5/11/04 -0400, Jim McGonigle wrote: >> >>The issue is that as motorcyclist we take extra risks that we have all >>accepted. I would hate to see a child seriously injured without them >>being able to make the decision if the risk is worth it (when they are >>old enough to understand it). > >The same is true for a ride in a car. The risk values are slightly >different, but riding in a car is still more risky than not riding in a car, >most of the time anyway (if you are bleeding to death, things change for >instance). If the question is valid for a ride on a bike, it is just as >valid for a ride in a car. The actual level of risk isn't as important to >the question as that it rises in either case. > >Of course, they say that most accidents happen within 20 miles of home, so >the farther you can get the kid away from there, there better... :-) > >I'd worry about any kid too young to hold on, or understand the rules for >being a passenger on a bike, but an 11 year old should be old enough to >handle both of those things. > >-- Mike B. > >'04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) > >Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes >is better. > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 15:50:52 2004 Subject: RE: Moto question raised at lunch Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 15:50:43 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Skip" Cc: "DC Cycles" Yamaha YSR50. Just about her size... However, if your wife considers it too dangerous, you should reach some agreement on how best to proceed (or not, as the case might be). -----Original Message----- From: Skip [mailto:skip@XXXXXX] Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 3:33 PM Cc: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch Interesting timing for this... my 9yo daughter wants to ride with me. I tell her that she cannot until we have proper equipment: helmet, jacket, pants. She just had her first communion, and got about $100 in gift. after the party, the first thing she said was, "can we go buy a helmet so I can ride with you?" ahhhh yes. this is gonna be great. I'm training a rider the way they should be trained. all the scenarios are going through my mind... her first dirtbike, her first street bike, a little moto-touring with my daughter. this is one of the rewards of parenting that I'm looking for.... My wife come to me the other day, and says, " no f*ck|ng way in hell! It's too dangerous!" so now I'm in a quandry. she wants to ride, i want her to ride with me. her mother is dead set against it. to Deb's credit, she has ridden, and wrecked before. she knows it's the cars that kill us, and that they are largely out of our control. I cannot oppose her logic. it -is- dangerous -- more dangerous than driving a car. it is a risk that she is not willing to let me accept for my daughter. so, how to proceed? I'm thinking that i will slowly acquire the gear, and take her for short rides at first, until Deb gets used to the idea. --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 16:07:28 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 13:03:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 To: DC Cycles --- mark hermes wrote: > Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 12:58:08 -0700 (PDT) > From: mark hermes > Subject: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 > To: Mark Kitchell > > The bike is legal, > I am from New Your but now i am at my brother in > London and i have the bike here. > The bike is legal. Don't worry i will pay the > shipping > > > > > Mark Kitchell wrote:Ok, I > am interested but is the bike in the US? If it > is in England then how is it registered in the US. > Its very important to me that it is a legal bike in > the US. > > Who pays the shipping fee? How much is that? > > > --- mark hermes wrote: > > Yes the price is 1800$. > > I am from London and I sell this bike because is > > registered in US > > I can send you the bike via DHL and if you are > > interested I will pay all shipping taxes. > > Tell me if you are realy interested to start the > > deal with me, > > > > > > Mark Kitchell wrote: > > Hi, is price correct? It seems very low. > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs > > > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > > > > --------------------------------- > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 16:07:45 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 16:09:08 -0400 To: Skip From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch Cc: DC Cycles At 03:32 PM 5/11/04 -0400, Skip wrote: >so now I'm in a quandry. > >she wants to ride, i want her to ride with me. her mother is dead set against >it. to Deb's credit, she has ridden, and wrecked before. she knows it's the >cars that kill us, and that they are largely out of our control. I cannot >oppose her logic. it -is- dangerous -- more dangerous than driving a car. it >is a risk that she is not willing to let me accept for my daughter. > >so, how to proceed? Mom's opinion on the matter is as important as yours. Either of you get more votes than your daughter does...you are the parents. Her desires matter, but they don't rule. That's how I'd see things anyway. Some sort of compromise maybe? If the danger from cars is the main concern on mom's part, how about starting out riding where there aren't any cars? Dirt track, trail riding, trials bike, or something like that? That's where I got started, and what I learned came in very handy for street riding too (balance, low speed stuff, loss of traction incidents, throttle control, clutch control, etc.). Besides the lack of cars, the speeds tend to be lower (35 mph through the woods is almost insanely fast), the surfaces are more resilient in most cases than concrete or asphalt are, and the armor looks cooler than street stuff. :-) That would let your daughter learn some valuable skills, ride sooner rather than later (she can do what she likes in another 7 years anyway...and may do so sooner anyway), use a cheaper bike that can take getting dropped a whole lot better than the average street bike, provide more excersize for her, and you (I presume you'd go along with her), probably be easier to maintain, and, if you get an enduro rather than a dirt bike, allow for transition to the street on a familiar machine. The primary problem around here is finding off-road places to ride...but with a trailer you can get to places farther out I guess, without her having to ride on the road. Got any friends with farms? Some campgrounds have trails you can ride, or used to. Some national parks too, but I don't know about the ones around here. Most of the places I used to ride out along River Road are either covered in houses now, or have big "NO TRESPASSING!" signs up that weren't there 20 years ago. Maybe there's a dirt riding club in the area with a place to ride for members? Worth checking on maybe. Mom saying "NO!" won't keep her off bikes, though it may delay it a couple of years. As soon as folks in her peer group start riding, she'll bum a ride with someone...probably far less skilled and careful than you are, who may be trying to impress her rather than be careful. My girlfriend was in that situation when she was a teen (or so I've been told). Mom and dad didn't like bikes, so she got rides from friends and acquaintances, and just didn't tell them. Her dad almost had a hissy when he saw her on the back of a bike one day...but he was smart enough to realize that you can't control and protect your kids forever...all you can do is try to prepare them well. Your daughter learning to ride safely under your supervision is a lot better than her teaching herself, or learning from someone almost as new to it as she is. I wanted to ride when I was a kid too, and my mother had the same objections your wife does. I took every opportunity that came up anyway, and just didn't tell mom (had a friend with a Honda Trail 70, and another with a Kawasaki 250 cc dirt bike). As soon as I was out of college and could afford it, I got a bike, and then another. Though she walked past them when she visited my house once, she never mentioned it...so I didn't either. :-) -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 16:09:10 2004 From: "Jim McGonigle" To: "'Mike Bartman'" , "'Verde, Robert'" , "'Julian Halton'" , "'DC Cycles'" Subject: RE: Moto question raised at lunch Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 16:09:08 -0400 Called booster seats. Unless the 11 year old is over 5 feet or so... Many school age children should remain in booster seats (see pre-schoolers). For proper restraint make sure the lap belt fits low over the top of the thighs and the shoulder belt is across the chest. Never place the shoulder belt under the arm or behind the back. The safest position for a child is in the back seat -----Original Message----- From: Mike Bartman [mailto:omni@XXXXXX] Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 3:49 PM To: Jim McGonigle; 'Verde, Robert'; 'Julian Halton'; 'DC Cycles' Subject: RE: Moto question raised at lunch Where do you find child seats for 11 year olds? Don't know about your experiences, but when I was 11 I could take falls without damage that might put me in traction these days... -- Mike B. At 03:33 PM 5/11/04 -0400, Jim McGonigle wrote: > >The risk levels of a child riding in a car in a child seat vs a >motorcycle is night and day. Its not a fair comparison. Even a simple >low side on a bike could kill or permanantly injury a child when an >adult might walk away with minor injuries. It would take one hell of a wreak to do that in a car. > >IMHO, >-Jim > >-----Original Message----- >From: Mike Bartman [mailto:omni@XXXXXX] >Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 3:26 PM >To: Jim McGonigle; 'Verde, Robert'; 'Julian Halton'; 'DC Cycles' >Subject: RE: Moto question raised at lunch > >At 03:02 PM 5/11/04 -0400, Jim McGonigle wrote: >> >>The issue is that as motorcyclist we take extra risks that we have all >>accepted. I would hate to see a child seriously injured without them >>being able to make the decision if the risk is worth it (when they are >>old enough to understand it). > >The same is true for a ride in a car. The risk values are slightly >different, but riding in a car is still more risky than not riding in a >car, most of the time anyway (if you are bleeding to death, things >change for instance). If the question is valid for a ride on a bike, >it is just as valid for a ride in a car. The actual level of risk >isn't as important to the question as that it rises in either case. > >Of course, they say that most accidents happen within 20 miles of home, >so the farther you can get the kid away from there, there better... >:-) > >I'd worry about any kid too young to hold on, or understand the rules >for being a passenger on a bike, but an 11 year old should be old >enough to handle both of those things. > >-- Mike B. > >'04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley >folks) > >Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's >mistakes is better. > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 16:10:58 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 16:10:54 -0400 To: DC Cycles From: Troutman Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 Send a fake check to cover the fake bike. Contact the FBI. I am sure they have a team covering these scams. At 04:03 PM 5/11/2004, Mark Kitchell wrote: > > The bike is legal, > > I am from New Your but now i am at my brother in > > London and i have the bike here. > > The bike is legal. Don't worry i will pay the > > shipping ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org When weapons are blunted, and ardor dampened, strength exhausted, and resources depleted, the neighboring rulers will take advantage of these complications - Sun Tzu From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 16:15:23 2004 From: "Shigeru Honda" To: "DC Cycles" Subject: Re: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 16:13:13 -0400 > I can send you the bike via DHL LoL!! funny to see how you tease this guy Interesting to see how scammers do their BS --------------------- Shigeru Honda 98 SuperHawk (Street) 99 750 SS (Track #881) 02 MZ Skorpion Tour (Commuter) 91 CR80 (new toy) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Kitchell" To: "DC Cycles" Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 4:03 PM Subject: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 > > --- mark hermes wrote: > > Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 12:58:08 -0700 (PDT) > > From: mark hermes > > Subject: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 > > To: Mark Kitchell > > > > The bike is legal, > > I am from New Your but now i am at my brother in > > London and i have the bike here. > > The bike is legal. Don't worry i will pay the > > shipping > > > > > > > > > > Mark Kitchell wrote:Ok, I > > am interested but is the bike in the US? If it > > is in England then how is it registered in the US. > > Its very important to me that it is a legal bike in > > the US. > > > > Who pays the shipping fee? How much is that? > > > > > > --- mark hermes wrote: > > > Yes the price is 1800$. > > > I am from London and I sell this bike because is > > > registered in US > > > I can send you the bike via DHL and if you are > > > interested I will pay all shipping taxes. > > > Tell me if you are realy interested to start the > > > deal with me, > > > > > > > > > Mark Kitchell wrote: > > > Hi, is price correct? It seems very low. > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs > > > > > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs > > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 16:32:03 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 13:31:56 -0700 (PDT) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch To: Skip Cc: DC Cycles --- Skip wrote: > she wants to ride, i want her to ride with me. her mother is dead set against > it. to Deb's credit, she has ridden, and wrecked before. she knows it's the > cars that kill us, and that they are largely out of our control. I cannot > oppose her logic. it -is- dangerous -- more dangerous than driving a car. it > is a risk that she is not willing to let me accept for my daughter. > > I'm thinking that i will slowly acquire the gear, and take her for short rides > at first, until Deb gets used to the idea. You could hold off a little bit, and take her riding all you want *after* the divorce, if you get custody. 8;) -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 16:52:55 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 13:52:41 -0700 (PDT) From: matthew patton Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > > I am from New Your but now i am at my brother in > > > London and i have the bike here. and to think he got plates for it in the UK? and past MOT even? I'd like to see that DHL shipping receipt from US to UK. ===== "If you believe what you like in the Gospels, and reject what you do not like, it is not the Gospel you believe, but yourself." -- Augustine of Hippo (AD 354-430) * A successful marriage isn't finding the right person; it's being the right person. * Liberalism always generates the exact opposite of its stated intent. -- Jim Quinn (www.warroom.com) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 16:58:12 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 16:57:52 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: markkitchell@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 X-AOL-IP: 65.86.98.162 F'ing with the poor Englander who can't even write proper English? Shame on you. ;-) Scooter In a message dated 5/11/2004 1:55:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time, markkitchell@XXXXXX writes: > > > Ok, I am interested but is the bike in the US? If it > is in England then how is it registered in the US. > Its very important to me that it is a legal bike in > the US. > > Who pays the shipping fee? How much is that? > > > --- mark hermes wrote: > > Yes the price is 1800$. > > I am from London and I sell this bike because is > > registered in US > > I can send you the bike via DHL and if you are > > interested I will pay all shipping taxes. > > Tell me if you are realy interested to start the > > deal with me, > > > > > > Mark Kitchell wrote: > > Hi, is price correct? It seems very low. > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs > > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > > > > --------------------------------- > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 17:01:43 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 15:47:08 -0400 To: "DC Cycles" From: Erick Singley Subject: RE: Moto question raised at lunch - ear plugs The foam types abrade my ear channel and I never quite got them to seal and had to keep toying with them at stop lights (though I haven't gone through many brands). I've found this type, "Mack's Pillow Soft Silicone Earplugs" (http://www.macksearplugs.com/macks.htm) http://store.yahoo.com/earplugstore/macsilearplu.html http://www.nic-inc.com/product4/ep00005.htm works better for me. I get them at my HMO for under $2 a box - so I can't say what's a good deal. They're easy to stick in/remove and are reusable (until I get too much grease on them :) I can still hear people talking through the helmet - but it cuts the high end wind noise when I'm moving. Although the instructions say not to split them, I get a better fit if I do. (I don't know how that changes the 22 decibel rating reduction when I do that) Erick At 3:24 PM -0400 5/11/04, Verde, Robert wrote: >Leon; > >I buy my ear plugs from Lab Safety Supply, they have quite a selection. > >http://www.labsafety.com/store/product_group.asp?dept_id=12620&cat_prefix=4WA > >Robert > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Leon Begeman [mailto:mriderleon@XXXXXX] >Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 3:20 PM >To: Julian Halton; DC Cycles >Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch > > >My 11 year old rides. But, where can I find some good >foam earplugs for her. The ones I use are too large. >Is there someplace where I can get an assortment of >sizes so she can try several sizes on to see which is >best. > >She's been riding since her legs were long enough to >reach the passenger pegs. And on a Ninja 250, that's >pretty small. > >Leon Begeman From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 17:02:27 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 17:02:17 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch X-AOL-IP: 65.86.98.162 As long as the child is wearing the proper protection and has been instructed what not to do while daddy (or mommy) is driving then I think it is completely alright. Hell, there are 3yo's driving around on mini dirt bikes nowadays. Scooter In a message dated 5/11/2004 2:39:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, julian@XXXXXX writes: > > > > What do you all think about the following scenario: > A father picks up his 11 year old daughter and takes her to school in > the morning on his bike. This came up at lunch and I was curious to see > how a group of educated moto riders reacts when they see or > hear of a > parent taking their child for a ride. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 17:13:15 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 17:12:59 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: skip@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch X-AOL-IP: 65.86.98.162 In a message dated 5/11/2004 3:32:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, skip@XXXXXX writes: > :-) > so, how to proceed? > > I'm thinking that i will slowly acquire the gear, and take her for short rides > at first, until Deb gets used to the idea. > > --skip This sounds like the best plan. Slowly build her up to the idea and it will eventually happen. Hell, she's a mom. My mom STILL doesn't want me to ride but, she's used to it now. ;-) Scooter From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 17:13:42 2004 Subject: RE: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 17:13:32 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Shigeru Honda" , "DC Cycles" Here, fishy, fishy, fishy... ^_^ -----Original Message----- From: Shigeru Honda [mailto:shonda3@XXXXXX] Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 4:13 PM To: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 > I can send you the bike via DHL LoL!! funny to see how you tease this guy Interesting to see how scammers do their BS --------------------- Shigeru Honda 98 SuperHawk (Street) 99 750 SS (Track #881) 02 MZ Skorpion Tour (Commuter) 91 CR80 (new toy) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 17:18:01 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 14:17:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Re: Harley Update To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- adamme1@XXXXXX wrote: > > > > From: Carl Schelin > > Date: 2004/05/11 Tue PM 01:00:23 EDT > > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > Subject: Re: Harley Update > > > > > > --- "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" wrote: > > > --- Mike Bartman wrote: > > > >.... I don't know why they don't mark the dip stick with "on jiffy" > and > > > > "off jiffy" level marks, but a small jeweler's file should fix it > > > (unless > > > > some more knowledgeable types here point out where I'm missing > > > something > > > > critical ;-). > > > > > > On some bikes, depending on the sump design, when it's on the stand, > the > > > oil > > > might not reach the dip stick at all. > > > > True. On the Softail, the oil showed about a half-quart low. I may > make > > the mod Mike suggests, just to make it easier to check the oil. > Keeping it > > balanced while checking leaves a lot of variables (did I move it too > far > > this way for example). > > > > > > -- Larry > > > > > > > Carl > > > > > odd. In the service manual for my 01 WideGlide, it specifically states > that all oil checks should be done with the jiffy stand *down* and the > bike leaning. > My 2002 Softail Service Manual, page 1-11 (section 1.4) "Checking Oil Level Ride motorcycle until engine is warmed up to operating temperature, then do the following. 1. Idle motorcycle on jiffy stand for 1-2 minutes. 2. Shut motorcycle off and stand vehicle upright. 3. See Figure 1-2. Check level on dipstick. If necessary, add oil until oil registers at upper groove on dipstick. Do not overfill oil tank." Seems pretty clear for the 2002 Softail. > -aki Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 17:21:44 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 17:20:25 -0400 (EDT) From: dan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: camping On Tue, 11 May 2004, Glenn Dysart wrote: > Dan, was this on Friday? We rode through Flint Hill > Saturday ~ 9:00 AM and it looked like a tornado had > been through there. Many, many trees down, and mud > and gravel completely_covering_the_roads in some > areas. > Yeah, Friday btwn 5 and 7pm. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 17:37:47 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 17:37:26 -0400 From: Brian Roach To: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch I don't want to go off on a rant or anything but... My dad took me for rides when I was a kid. A young kid. Think Kindergarden kid. In fact, my Dad took me took Kindergarden on more than one occasion. I rode in front of him, between his legs, so I could hold onto the bars of his Harley. I did have a helmet, I think. Now ... we are talking rural Ohio - not the Beltway. But lets ignore the beltway and say we're only talking about side streets and back roads. I'm still here. Never crashed, never hurt. Had a BLAST on dad's bike. What are the rules these days? Can't leave your house without a mattress bungied to your body? Can't possibly ever be exposed to anything that might be dangerous? Tree-houses built 4 feet off the ground? :) - Roach From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 17:39:02 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 14:37:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 To: DC Cycles --- Dave Yates wrote: > Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 17:32:38 -0400 > From: Dave Yates > Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 > To: mark hermes > CC: markkitchell@XXXXXX > > My friend's name is Rita, but you can't visit her > because she > works and lives on a secure installation. She rides > a > scooter most of the time due to the high petrol > prices, but > she's a qualified motorcycle rider so she'll be able > to tell > that it's a good bike. > > what's your address? > > ---- Original message ---- > >Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 14:08:56 -0700 (PDT) > >From: mark hermes > >Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R )B - $1800 > >To: Dave Yates > > > > I will give you my address but he can't come at > my > > home because my wife don't accept that , i think > you > > understand me. > > Give me your friend name and address > > > > > > Dave Yates wrote: > > > > Not me, Mark Kitchell has 1st dibs on the > bike. > > Just let > > Mark know where my buddy can come to inspect > the > > bike. > > > > Dave > > > > ---- Original message ---- > > >Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 13:53:29 -0700 (PDT) > > >From: mark hermes > > >Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - > $1800 > > >To: Dave Yates > > > > > > You can send the money at your friend via > > western > > > union , in this way i can check at > westernunion > > > website . And afther i see that you sent the > > money i > > > will send you the bike > > > > > > > > > Dave Yates wrote: > > > > > > Hey Mark (Kitchell), > > > > > > I've got a mate in London who could probably > go > > > and inspect > > > it for you. And let me know if you're not > > > interested, I've > > > got some spare greenbacks laying around > too... > > > > > > Dave Y. > > > > > > >--- mark hermes > > wrote: > > > >> Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 12:58:08 -0700 > (PDT) > > > >> From: mark hermes > > > > >> Subject: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 > > > >> To: Mark Kitchell > > > > >> > > > >> The bike is legal, > > > >> I am from New Your but now i am at my > brother > > > in > > > >> London and i have the bike here. > > > >> The bike is legal. Don't worry i will pay > the > > > >> shipping > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> Mark Kitchell > > wrote:Ok, > > > I > > > >> am interested but is the bike in th! e > US? If > > > it > > > >> is in England then how is it registered > in > > the > > > US. > > > >> Its very important to me that it is a > legal > > > bike in > > > >>! ; the US. > > > >> > > > >> Who pays the shipping fee? How much is > that? > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> --- mark hermes wrote: > > > >> > Yes the price is 1800$. > > > >> > I am from London and I sell this bike > > because > > > is > > > >> > registered in US > > > >> > I can send you the bike via DHL and if > you > > > are > > > >> > interested I will pay all shipping > taxes. > > > >> > Tell me if you are realy interested to > > start > > > the > > > >> > deal with me, > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > Mark Kitchell wrote: > > > >> > Hi, is price correct? It seems very > low. > > > >> > > > > >> > Thanks > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > __________________________________ > > > >> > Do you Yahoo!? > > > >> > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! > > > HotJobs > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > > > >> > > > > >> > --------------------------------- > > > >> > Do you Yahoo!? > > > >> > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! > > > HotJobs > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> __________________________________ > > > >> Do you Yahoo!? > > > >> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! > > HotJobs > > > >> > > > > > > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> --------------------------------- > > > >> Do you Yahoo!? > > > >> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! > > HotJobs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >__________________________________ > > > >Do you Yahoo!? > > > >Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! > HotJobs > > > > > > >http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! > HotJobs > > > > > ------------------------------------------------ > > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 17:40:27 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 14:30:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 To: mark hermes Thats fine since you are paying shipping. Ok, I would like a friend to see the bike and check it out. How can we arrange that? --- mark hermes wrote: > The bike is in London > > > > Mark Kitchell wrote:Yes I > want the bike. WHere is it? > > A > --- Dave Yates wrote: > > Not me, Mark Kitchell has 1st dibs on the bike. > > Just let > > Mark know where my buddy can come to inspect the > > bike. > > > > Dave > > > > ---- Original message ---- > > >Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 13:53:29 -0700 (PDT) > > >From: mark hermes > > >Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 > > >To: Dave Yates > > > > > > You can send the money at your friend via > > western > > > union , in this way i can check at westernunion > > > website . And afther i see that you sent the > > money i > > > will send you the bike > > > > > > > > > Dave Yates wrote: > > > > > > Hey Mark (Kitchell), > > > > > > I've got a mate in London who could probably > > go > > > and inspect > > > it for you. And let me know if you're not > > > interested, I've > > > got some spare greenbacks laying around too... > > > > > > Dave Y. > > > > > > >--- mark hermes > > wrote: > > > >> Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 12:58:08 -0700 (PDT) > > > >> From: mark hermes > > > > > >> Subject: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 > > > >> To: Mark Kitchell > > > >> > > > >> The bike is legal, > > > >> I am from New Your but now i am at my > > brother > > > in > > > >> London and i have the bike here. > > > >> The bike is legal. Don't worry i will pay > > the > > > >> shipping > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> Mark Kitchell > > wrote:Ok, > > > I > > > >> am interested but is the bike in th! e US? > > If > > > it > > > >> is in England then how is it registered in > > the > > > US. > > > >> Its very important to me that it is a legal > > > bike in > > > >> the US. > > > >> > > > >> Who pays the shipping fee? How much is > > that? > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> --- mark hermes wrote: > > > >> > Yes the price is 1800$. > > > >> > I am from London and I sell this bike > > because > > > is > > > >> > registered in US > > > >> > I can send you the bike via DHL and if > > you > > > are > > > >> > interested I will pay all shipping taxes. > > > >> > Tell me if you are realy interested to > > start > > > the > > > >> > deal with me, > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > Mark Kitchell wrote: > > > >> > Hi, is price correct? It seems very low. > > > >> > > > > >> > Thanks > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > __________________________________ > > > >> > Do you Yahoo!? > > > >> > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! > > > HotJobs > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > > > >> > > > > >> > --------------------------------- > > > >> > Do you Yahoo!? > > > >> > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! > > > HotJobs > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> __________________________________ > > > >> Do you Yahoo!? > > > >> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! > > HotJobs > > > >> > > > > > > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> --------------------------------- > > > >> Do you Yahoo!? > > > >> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! > > HotJobs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >__________________________________ > > > >Do you Yahoo!? > > > >Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! > > HotJobs > > > > > > >http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 17:42:03 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 17:40:59 -0400 (EDT) From: dan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 On Tue, 11 May 2004, Troutman wrote: > Send a fake check to cover the fake bike. > Didn't someone say they had gotten a fake check from the fake cashiers check scam? Monopoly money? I'm sure he will only accept Western Union. You could just tell him you sent it! Have him show up a few times to collect and get nothing. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 17:55:06 2004 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Moto question raised at lunch Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 17:43:05 -0400 About giving up the bike or gym for a relationship. I don't plan on that either. When I first got out of college my gf then would complain that she'd rather me spend time with her than go to the gym. I had been working out before she came along and didn't plan on stopping. Any gf that comes along now knows that I have a motorcycle and that's part of the package. I will evaluate things when kids come into the picture because they didn't choose a dad that rides, but no need for that now. >From: "Julian Halton" >To: "Jim McGonigle" , "Verde, Robert" >, "DC Cycles" >Subject: RE: Moto question raised at lunch >Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 15:10:50 -0400 I pissed off half my co-workers at lunch today by saying I will never >give up going to the gym or motorcycling for a relationship. >Someone spat back..."wait till you have kids, you going to take junior >to school on your crotch rocket"..and that got the wheels turning so I >said let's see what those in the know think about it. _________________________________________________________________ Stop worrying about overloading your inbox - get MSN Hotmail Extra Storage! http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=hotmail/es2&ST=1/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 18:01:41 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 15:01:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Harley Update To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 05:29 PM 5/10/04 -0700, Carl Schelin wrote: > >The nice part is that they bled the rear brake and actually washed the > >bike. > > Batley's always washes the bike after service...unless you want it in a > hurry or something, like the guy picking his up the other night with an > approaching thunderstorm. The first two times I had to take it to East Coast they didn't clean it. They ran a hose over it last time but it pretty clearly wasn't actually washed. See http://www.geocities.com/dm_gsxr/eastcoast.txt for the letter I eventually sent to East Coast. > Learning experience. Yea, I did some work on the first harley that required pulling the pipes. I don't recall offhand what it was but I mis-read in-lbs for ft-lbs and popped the head of the bolt off of the rear mount. :-/ I'm more careful now :-) > > I just wanted to get out of the weather ASAP. I'd washed it > just before I started the muffler work...much nicer working on a clean > bike...so I guess the storm was inevitable. :-) Good job on getting home without getting wet. There was a tornado that walked across I-70 about 30 minutes or so east of Denver last night. Just to the east of Limon. It looked pretty impressive and the guys on The Weather Channel were just about jumping with excitement about it. When I picked up the bike yesterday, they commented that I might be in a hurry to get it home before a thunderstorm hit. "Ah, no problem. I've been wet before." There was some big party at Sun HD on Saturday. Lots of bikes, free food and band. We hung around for 30 minutes or so before bailing. There were a couple of real nice looking Pans that folks had driven up and one bike that looked close to being a chopper. Very fat front end. > > >While I was waiting on the Hawg to get out of the shop, I wandered over > to > >the Sun Honda dealer and they have a 2002 Hayabusa with 11k and priced > at > >$8.2k. No apparent scratches or dings on it. The sales guy didn't know > why > >it was traded in. Hmmmm. > > Any seat stains? :-) Good thought but I didn't see any blemishes on the bike. With 11k on the ODO, it seems more likely the guy couldn't afford the insurance. Unlikely that the license was pulled since I can't imagine selling directly to a dealer in that case. > > -- Mike B. > Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 18:05:04 2004 From: (Andrew Culpepper) biga@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch To: DC Cycles Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 18:04:57 -0400 My Dad took me on short rides and long trips on his brand new 1970 Kawaski Mach III. I was 9. In those days, we didn't have to wear helmets in VA either. I'll bet that guy lets his daughter climb trees and stuff too. Andrew On Tue, 11 May 2004 17:37:26 -0400 Brian Roach wrote: > I don't want to go off on a rant or anything but... > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 18:08:02 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 15:07:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Julian Halton wrote: > > What do you all think about the following scenario: > A father picks up his 11 year old daughter and takes her to school in > the morning on his bike. This came up at lunch and I was curious to see > how a group of educated moto riders reacts when they see or hear of a > parent taking their child for a ride. As far as I'm concerned, as long as she can touch the pegs, she can ride. My younger daughter was mightily pissed at me because I didn't get a new bike for almost 10 years after going down on the last one. I took my 7 year old step-granddaughter for a ride on the Harley last year. I expect to take her for another one this year. Helmet, gear, able to put feet on the pegs, and parents approval are all I need. Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 18:14:22 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 15:14:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: RE: Moto question raised at lunch To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Julian Halton wrote: > That was what I was getting at..taking a "kid" whether it be as > passenger on in some kid carrying device, we are assuming a level of > risk not only for ourselves but for someone else maybe not mature enough > to understand. I respect the opinions on this list so I thought I would > ask how you all felt in general about taking your child out for a spin. > I pissed off half my co-workers at lunch today by saying I will never > give up going to the gym or motorcycling for a relationship. > Someone spat back..."wait till you have kids, you going to take junior > to school on your crotch rocket"..and that got the wheels turning so I > said let's see what those in the know think about it. Again, the issue is making sure they can touch the pegs (gear is obvious). I know I'm more careful (if possible) when I'm carrying someone else on the back no matter who she or he is. And I didn't give up riding when I first got married when a friend of mine did after he got married (he went over a double-yellow line on his Honda 350 which scared him a bit). We left the wedding reception on my CB360 and had just a bike for the first year. We eventually got a car (74 yellow Nova) once our first kid was on the way but I kept the bike until I was transferred to Germany. Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 18:15:33 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 15:15:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Walmart has a nice selection. Look in the swimming section. Carl --- Leon Begeman wrote: > My 11 year old rides. But, where can I find some good > foam earplugs for her. The ones I use are too large. > Is there someplace where I can get an assortment of > sizes so she can try several sizes on to see which is > best. > ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 18:17:36 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 15:17:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: RE: Moto question raised at lunch To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 03:02 PM 5/11/04 -0400, Jim McGonigle wrote: > > > >The issue is that as motorcyclist we take extra risks that we have all > >accepted. I would hate to see a child seriously injured without them > being > >able to make the decision if the risk is worth it (when they are old > enough > >to understand it). > > > I'd worry about any kid too young to hold on, or understand the rules > for > being a passenger on a bike, but an 11 year old should be old enough to > handle both of those things. I think it'd depend on the kids experience as well. As I said earlier, I gave my granddaughter a ride and she's 7 but she also goes out dirt-biking with her brothers and dad so I know she's experienced enough to know how to ride. > > -- Mike B. Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 18:22:43 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 15:22:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > I wanted to ride when I was a kid too, and my mother had the same > objections your wife does. I took every opportunity that came up > anyway, and just didn't tell mom (had a friend with a Honda Trail 70, > and another with a Kawasaki 250 cc dirt bike). As soon as I was out > of college and could afford it, I got a bike, and then another. > Though she walked past them when she visited my house once, she > never mentioned it...so I didn't either. :-) My parents said no to me as well and I got my first bike after reaching my first duty station at Ft. Meade. After getting the Honda 360, I rode it down to Spotsylvania to visit and mom wanted a ride on the back. Turns out that Dad was the problem. Mom was a biker babe before she was married and hung out with her brothers who were definately riders (I stayed with my uncle for a year and he raced bikes; bultaco sticks in my mind). > > -- Mike B. > Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 19:11:19 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 19:11:11 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Aki Damme Subject: Re: Re: Harley Update At 05:17 PM 5/11/2004, Carl Schelin wrote: >--- adamme1@XXXXXX wrote: > > > > > > From: Carl Schelin > > > Date: 2004/05/11 Tue PM 01:00:23 EDT > > > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > > Subject: Re: Harley Update > > > > > > > > > --- "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" wrote: > > > > --- Mike Bartman wrote: > > > > >.... I don't know why they don't mark the dip > stick with "on jiffy" > > and > > > > > "off jiffy" level marks, but a small jeweler's > file should fix it > > > > (unless > > > > > some more knowledgeable types here point out > where I'm missing > > > > something > > > > > critical ;-). > > > > > > > > On some bikes, depending on the sump design, when > it's on the stand, > > the > > > > oil > > > > might not reach the dip stick at all. > > > > > > True. On the Softail, the oil showed about a > half-quart low. I may > > make > > > the mod Mike suggests, just to make it easier to > check the oil. > > Keeping it > > > balanced while checking leaves a lot of variables > (did I move it too > > far > > > this way for example). > > > > > > > > -- Larry > > > > > > > > > > Carl > > > > > > > > > odd. In the service manual for my 01 WideGlide, it > specifically states > > that all oil checks should be done with the jiffy stand > *down* and the > > bike leaning. > > > >My 2002 Softail Service Manual, page 1-11 (section 1.4) > >"Checking Oil Level > >Ride motorcycle until engine is warmed up to operating >temperature, then >do the following. > >1. Idle motorcycle on jiffy stand for 1-2 minutes. > >2. Shut motorcycle off and stand vehicle upright. > >3. See Figure 1-2. Check level on dipstick. If necessary, >add oil until >oil registers at upper groove on dipstick. Do not overfill >oil tank." > >Seems pretty clear for the 2002 Softail. > > > -aki > >Carl From my 2001 Dyna Service Manual, page 1-11: *********************************************************** Checking With Warm Engine Ride motorcycle until engine is warmed up to operating temperature, then do the following: 1. Idle motorcycle on jiffy stand for 1-2 minutes. 2. Shut motorcycle off and with motorcycle leaning on jiffy stand on level ground, check oil level by inserting dipstick completely into oil tank filler neck. 3. Add oil, if required, to FULL mark. Do not overfill. For a cold engine, with motorcycle leaning on jiffy stand on level ground, oil should register on dipstick between arrows when engine is cold. ****************************************************************** I think the difference is because of the inherent design differences between Softails and Dynas. cheers, -aki From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 19:14:43 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 16:14:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 To: Dave Yates , mark hermes Cc: markkitchell@XXXXXX Wait I thought you were visting your brother in London. Now your wife lives there. This is getting confusing. I still want the bike though. How can I send you the money? Also, will you take $1600? --- Dave Yates wrote: > My friend's name is Rita, but you can't visit her > because she > works and lives on a secure installation. She rides > a > scooter most of the time due to the high petrol > prices, but > she's a qualified motorcycle rider so she'll be able > to tell > that it's a good bike. > > what's your address? > > ---- Original message ---- > >Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 14:08:56 -0700 (PDT) > >From: mark hermes > >Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R )B - $1800 > >To: Dave Yates > > > > I will give you my address but he can't come at > my > > home because my wife don't accept that , i think > you > > understand me. > > Give me your friend name and address > > > > > > Dave Yates wrote: > > > > Not me, Mark Kitchell has 1st dibs on the > bike. > > Just let > > Mark know where my buddy can come to inspect > the > > bike. > > > > Dave > > > > ---- Original message ---- > > >Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 13:53:29 -0700 (PDT) > > >From: mark hermes > > >Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - > $1800 > > >To: Dave Yates > > > > > > You can send the money at your friend via > > western > > > union , in this way i can check at > westernunion > > > website . And afther i see that you sent the > > money i > > > will send you the bike > > > > > > > > > Dave Yates wrote: > > > > > > Hey Mark (Kitchell), > > > > > > I've got a mate in London who could probably > go > > > and inspect > > > it for you. And let me know if you're not > > > interested, I've > > > got some spare greenbacks laying around > too... > > > > > > Dave Y. > > > > > > >--- mark hermes > > wrote: > > > >> Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 12:58:08 -0700 > (PDT) > > > >> From: mark hermes > > > > >> Subject: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 > > > >> To: Mark Kitchell > > > > >> > > > >> The bike is legal, > > > >> I am from New Your but now i am at my > brother > > > in > > > >> London and i have the bike here. > > > >> The bike is legal. Don't worry i will pay > the > > > >> shipping > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> Mark Kitchell > > wrote:Ok, > > > I > > > >> am interested but is the bike in th! e > US? If > > > it > > > >> is in England then how is it registered > in > > the > > > US. > > > >> Its very important to me that it is a > legal > > > bike in > > > >>! ; the US. > > > >> > > > >> Who pays the shipping fee? How much is > that? > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> --- mark hermes wrote: > > > >> > Yes the price is 1800$. > > > >> > I am from London and I sell this bike > > because > > > is > > > >> > registered in US > > > >> > I can send you the bike via DHL and if > you > > > are > > > >> > interested I will pay all shipping > taxes. > > > >> > Tell me if you are realy interested to > > start > > > the > > > >> > deal with me, > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > Mark Kitchell wrote: > > > >> > Hi, is price correct? It seems very > low. > > > >> > > > > >> > Thanks > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > __________________________________ > > > >> > Do you Yahoo!? > > > >> > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! > > > HotJobs > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > > > >> > > > > >> > --------------------------------- > > > >> > Do you Yahoo!? > > > >> > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! > > > HotJobs > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> __________________________________ > > > >> Do you Yahoo!? > > > >> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! > > HotJobs > > > >> > > > > > > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> --------------------------------- > > > >> Do you Yahoo!? > > > >> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! > > HotJobs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >__________________________________ > > > >Do you Yahoo!? > > > >Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! > HotJobs > > > > > > >http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! > HotJobs > > > > > ------------------------------------------------ > > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 20:16:01 2004 From: "W.S." To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Classic MC show in NY Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 20:15:40 -0400 From Monday's NYT in a piece about classic Japanese bikes - "The 2004 Rockefeller Center Motorcycle Show, a free outdoor display in midtown Manhattan that runs from May 19 to June 6, will include dozens of examples." Bill S. / DC '99 VN750 > Another 25 years and I'm sure I'll qualify (if out of production.) Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 20:16:01 2004 From: "W.S." To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 20:15:40 -0400 This topic jingled some past bells - had to act. Google came up with the following one-pager (have at the rest if desired) referencing the "Buddy Belt" and leading to other info about kids on bikes. (Offlist me, Julian, if you'd like me to unearth a copy of the full below article.) http://www.mcnews.com/mcnews/depts/Proficient_10031.pdf. Bill S. / DC '99 VN750 > What's the fuss? Krazy Glue the tyke to the seat. Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 21:05:29 2004 From: "Ed Hand" To: Subject: 92 FJ1200 For Sale Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 21:04:47 -0400 I have decided to sell my 1992 FJ1200. The bike is in good condition, has 36,300 miles, V&H SS2R exhaust, Dynojet stage 3, saddle bags, and shop manual. $2800. Ed From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 21:35:43 2004 Cc: "DC Cycles" From: David Cross Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 21:35:35 -0400 To: "Julian Halton" I think some of you are missing the ethical gist of his question which is the more interesting one. An adult understands the risks involved and can make that choice. A child probably does not really understand the level of risk involved or consequences of an accident and can not make an informed decision. The adult who puts their child on the back of a motorcycle knows or should know that they are putting their child in an unnecessarily risky situation (their is no _need_ for a child to ride on a street motorcycle). Would a "good" parent put their child at risk unnecessarily just so the child and parent can have an enjoyable experience? For sake of discussion, Im going to assume that their are other methods of basic transportation available as well as safer ways for parents and children to have enjoyable experiences together (amusement parks, hiking, canoeing, etc.). I would also assume that everyone would agree that in general motorcycling is more risky with greater negative consequences than other activities such as riding in a car, little league, etc. I'm not advocating a position on this one way or the other, just trying to clear up the question. dave On May 11, 2004, at 2:39 PM, Julian Halton wrote: > > What do you all think about the following scenario: > A father picks up his 11 year old daughter and takes her to school in > the morning on his bike. This came up at lunch and I was curious to > see > how a group of educated moto riders reacts when they see or hear of a > parent taking their child for a ride. > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 22:23:20 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 22:14:41 -0400 To: (Andrew Culpepper) biga@XXXXXX, DC Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch There's a bit that Jeff Foxworthy does about this subject. Talks about how over-protective people are these days, and that it's a wonder that anybody in prior generations survived to become parents. Says his dad had a 200 lb TV set sitting on a TV tray, with the theory that if little Jeff pulled it over on himself, he'd learn not to do it again. Same with sticking scissors in the light sockets. It's just a form of mass hysteria. Someone, somewhere, loses a kid to something, so everyone panics and goes overboard trying to make sure it can never happen again. They never consider the cost of their "repair". I never had a bike helmet for a pedal bike until after I was in my 30s. I fell off my bike plenty as a kid too, even in the street. We used to play all sorts of games we'd made up...like "fighter pilot", which was sort of like flag football on bikes, and without a ball. You wrapped a strip of cloth around each handlebar, and if you could ride up next to someone, and grab their cloth off, they were "shot down" and had to go to the nearest curb (it was in a cul de sack) and fall off onto the grass...and were out until there was a victor. One of the kids from across the street thought it would be a good cheat to *tie* the cloth onto his bike...when I yanked it, he was turned into me, and we both crashed (given the varying skill levels, the close riding proximity required, and the excitement of the chase/"kill", crashes were fairly common anyway :-). If all the kids in the area survived stuff like that, without helmets, gloves, knee pads, or air bags, why are today's kids so delicate that they won't? I think they are at least as tough as we were, but the parents have been terrified by the media and the government, and the kids don't know any better. -- Mike B. At 06:04 PM 5/11/04 -0400, Andrew Culpepper wrote: >My Dad took me on short rides and long trips on his brand new 1970 >Kawaski Mach III. I was 9. In those days, we didn't have to wear >helmets in VA either. > >I'll bet that guy lets his daughter climb trees and stuff too. > >Andrew > > >On Tue, 11 May 2004 17:37:26 -0400 > Brian Roach wrote: >> I don't want to go off on a rant or anything but... >> > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 22:23:31 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 22:04:56 -0400 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Harley Update At 03:01 PM 5/11/04 -0700, Carl Schelin wrote: >--- Mike Bartman wrote: >> Learning experience. > >Yea, I did some work on the first harley that required pulling the pipes. >I don't recall offhand what it was but I mis-read in-lbs for ft-lbs and >popped the head of the bolt off of the rear mount. :-/ I'm more careful >now :-) Yeah, I remember you mentioning something about that a while back. The clamps are in ft-lbs, but the bolts that hold the mufflers to the crossover tube are in in-lbs. >There was a tornado that >walked across I-70 about 30 minutes or so east of Denver last night. Wow. I guess you got to see one from above for the first time, eh? :-) -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 22:53:39 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 22:54:45 -0400 To: David Cross , "Julian Halton" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch Cc: "DC Cycles" At 09:35 PM 5/11/04 -0400, David Cross wrote: >I think some of you are missing the ethical gist of his question which >is the more interesting one. Not missing it at all...I thought I addressed it in my response. I think you missed the bit about there being risk in lots of other things that nobody considers this question over...such as car riding. There are plenty of other examples though...like this next item. >The adult who puts their child on the back of a motorcycle knows or >should know that they are putting their child in an unnecessarily risky >situation (their is no _need_ for a child to ride on a street >motorcycle). Would a "good" parent put their child at risk >unnecessarily just so the child and parent can have an enjoyable >experience? Ever take your kid on vacation with you? Cruise ship? Airplane? Maybe rent a car in Florida at the airport? None of these things are *necessary*. The kid will grow up without them, and they are all risky to some extent...much more risky than not doing them for sure. Ships have disease outbreaks, fires, hijackings, even sink on occasion. Airplanes crash, and get hijacked or bombed. Criminals in Florida, after the passage of the Shall Issue gun law there, started preying on those in airport rental cars, since those were some of the only victims they were *sure* were not armed, as the government guaranteed it with all the metal detectors and screening before boarding. A German couple were killed in a much publicized incident of this sort a while back. Taking a kid on vacation is *unnecessary* risk. What sort of responsible parent would do such a dangerous thing??? Maybe one who understands risk? Maybe one who understands that new experiences are valuable for kids and that this gain can offset some reasonable risk? That it's better that the kid ride with a careful parent than with an inexperienced friend (and that if they want to ride, they will find a way somehow?). People in this country (at least) are terrible at evaluating risk. What's familiar is generally seen as "safe", and what's unusual is often seen as "dangerous", regardless of the actual risk factors. The ride to the airport in the taxi is usually more dangerous than the airplane flight, but most people happily get into the cab, and are nervous in the airplane anyway. People cancelled plane trips after 9/11 because they were afraid of terrorists...when, even if you were *in the air*, in the USA, on the morning of 9/11, you had a less than 1 in 1400 chance of being a victim of terrorists (there were over 5600 flights in the air over the continental USA at the time of the hijackings, and 4 were hijacked). I had a flight booked for 9/15, and would have happily boarded it, if it hadn't been cancelled. I think that calling a parent "bad" because they take their kid on a bike is...uncalled for. Besides, how do *you* know that they have an option? They may very well have a *need* to do so. There are some on this list who don't have cars for instance, and public transportation has major limitations (which subway line goes to Paw Paw, WV? What's a cab ride out there cost? Can't rent a car without a credit card...and not everyone has credit cards). >For sake of discussion, Im going to assume that their are other methods >of basic transportation available as well as safer ways for parents and >children to have enjoyable experiences together (amusement parks, >hiking, canoeing, etc.). Walking is always an option. If you have the time, everywhere is within "walking distance". As for amusement parks, kids have died at those death traps...roller coasters that jump tracks, ferris wheels that stick and dump passengers...I've seen video of such things on TV several times. Hiking? You want your kid eaten by bears? What's the matter with you?! If the bears don't get him, maybe Lyme disease will, or a fall off a cliff, or a sudden rainstorm and a flash flood! Horrors! Canoeing is even worse! Two words: "keeper eddy".... No, any *responsible* parent will keep their kids at home, under constant supervision, preferably wrapped in fire-retardant bubble wrap in a bomb-proof vault with a good radon elimination system running constantly, and the kid hooked up to various bio-sensor monitoring systems. Anything else is unnecessary risk, and other hysterical people might think you are a bad parent if you don't... >I would also assume that everyone would agree >that in general motorcycling is more risky with greater negative >consequences than other activities such as riding in a car, little >league, etc. Riding in a car, probably. Little league? Kids have died from that...and just how *necessary* is it anyway?? Best just stay home... >I'm not advocating a position on this one way or the other, just trying >to clear up the question. I'm just trying to let a little common sense into it. Any time you evaluate risk without considering rewards you will come up with the wrong answer. It's a balancing act, and you have to include both aspects; limit the risk as much as possible without losing too much of the reward. Where you draw the line is up for debate I guess, but too many of the conclusions our society comes up with seem way out of balance, and based on the fantasy of total safety being achievable. Leave it up to the parents, and just think of it as evolution in action if you have a problem with what they do...so long as it doesn't affect *your* kids anyway. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 23:09:43 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 23:11:08 -0400 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch At 03:22 PM 5/11/04 -0700, Carl Schelin wrote: > >uncle for a year and he raced bikes; bultaco sticks in my mind). Summer before college I worked pumping gas at an Exxon Car Care Center with a girl who was nuts over Bultacos. I'd never heard of them before, but that's all she talked about. The name appears in a joke about a guy (probably named "Carl") who builds a bike from bits and pieces scavenged from a junkyard. He ends up with a "Kawahonsukiyamataco-Davidson"... I believe they were Spanish bikes, and not heavily imported into the US. Don't know if they are still around or not. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 23:13:15 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 23:10:30 -0400 To: Aki Damme , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Re: Harley Update At 07:11 PM 5/11/04 -0400, Aki Damme wrote: >At 05:17 PM 5/11/2004, Carl Schelin wrote: >> >>My 2002 Softail Service Manual, page 1-11 (section 1.4) >>2. Shut motorcycle off and stand vehicle upright. >> >>3. See Figure 1-2. Check level on dipstick. If necessary, > From my 2001 Dyna Service Manual, page 1-11: > >*********************************************************** >2. Shut motorcycle off and with motorcycle leaning on >jiffy stand on level ground, check oil level by inserting >dipstick completely into oil tank filler neck. > >I think the difference is because of the inherent design >differences between Softails and Dynas. Yeah, like having different engines... Dyna = TC88 Softail = TC88-B The oil tanks are likely different too, which is probably more critical. My '04 FLSTCI has the same instructions as Carl's bike. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 23:23:40 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 23:25:06 -0400 To: Bruce Brownlee , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: HDI EFI At 08:18 PM 5/7/04 -0400, Bruce Brownlee wrote: >Sorry Mike, I dont want to get into a micturation contest, but you couldnt >be more >wrong about HDI EFI. >As someone who studied in detail the first generation (Bosch type) open loop >system and specifically upgraded to an 02 because of the closed loop 'type' >system, I've read (and worked on) a fair share. Not interested in any contests either...thanks for the info. How does the "mapping" or "download" work then? I'd thought it was a lookup table of some sort, based on a given hardware setup. You seem to be saying it's more dynamic than that. That there's a CPU running equations or something, so that no matter how much you change the air flow into the engine, it will always match it up with the proper amount of fuel, spark at the right time, etc.. If that's the case, why do you need to change the "download" when you swap the air cleaner for one that flows better? I've been told that failing to do that will result in an overly lean condition with the "Stage 1 air cleaner kit" for instance. If the ECU can adapt to any pressure change, it should be able to handle a more open air cleaner too...both will affect the amount of O2 getting into the engine...but apparently it can't without different software. I don't understand why that might be if what you are saying is true (and I've got no reason to doubt you about it). It's a puzzle to me at this point. Also, in the Power Commander articles and ads and web site I've looked at, it appeared that what you were programming was a lookup table. For X amount of air, use Y amount of fuel, and shift the timing by Z if the throttle position is W. Maybe those things work completely differently from the way the ECU works? I know they output by adjusting the values from the ECU, but how they decide on the outputs seems to be with a simple lookup. >The map (by definition) is optimized for all conditions. Most people report >exceptional performance at altitude. Think a type of heuristic approach. >I think theres something like 5 sensors (air temp, density, throttle position, >cam position, etc) that are used to determine mixture (or injector duration, >in EFI talk). Devices such as the powercommander allow those to be modified >by the owner (I had one on my '95) but they STILL operate using the same >concept. Read ambient settings, adjust duration, timing, etc based on what >the map says. There is absolutely NO "tuning to average conditions" like >occur with carbs. The absolute conditions are matched to optimal settings >based on the programmers historical testing. So maybe the new downloads are required when the hardware (like an air filter) changes enough to take the inputs out of the range covered by the existing map, and you need a new one with different value ranges? Things like TFIs or PCs are for when you disagree with the manufacturer about what the mapping should be, perhaps because you've done custom mods to the engine? If so, then I think I understand. If not, please enlighten me. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 11 23:41:22 2004 Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 20:41:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Harley Update To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 03:01 PM 5/11/04 -0700, Carl Schelin wrote: > >--- Mike Bartman wrote: > > >There was a tornado that > >walked across I-70 about 30 minutes or so east of Denver last night. > > Wow. I guess you got to see one from above for the first time, eh? :-) Nope. 30 minutes is still quite a ways away, especially on a fast sport bike ;-) Wait, "from above"? Still though, we're a bit far away to be seeing it. The pictures on TWC were pretty good even if it was only an F1 tornado. > > -- Mike B. Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2' http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 00:53:47 2004 Cc: DC Cycles , Julian Halton From: David Cross Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 00:53:40 -0400 To: "bob@meyerweb" On May 11, 2004, at 11:19 PM, bob@meyerweb wrote: > That's not a decision for you, or society, to make about my child. > It's one for each family to make on their own. Bob, as I said, I was not advocating a position one way or the other. However, I am sure you are willing to agree that there are circumstances when society does need to make decisions about other peoples children, not that it applies to this discussion, such as its not OK for a parent to abuse their child. In fact, whether we like it or not society does sometimes tell us what is an unacceptable risk for our children, such as laws that say it is too risky for a child to ride their bicycle without a helmet on, or that its too risky to let a child ride in a vehicle without being in a child safety seat, or that its too risky to leave a child in a car while the parent goes into a store to get groceries. If you saw a child in a car not in their child safety seat what would you think of that parent? Perhaps they are not so different form the parent who puts their kid on the back of a motorcycle? Which child is really in more danger here, the child in the car or on the back of the bike? > I've never had a serious injury on a motorcycle, but I've cracked a > rib in a car accident. Well there's all the proof we need! Its settled: You are more likely to be injured in a car then on a motorcycle! Unfortunately the motorcyclist who have been killed are not here to tell us that "I never was injured in a car accident, but I was killed on my motorcyle." Usually we require a larger sample size when making statistical inferences, there are much smarter people than I on this list who will tell you that. I would also guess that you have spent many more miles in cars than on motorcycles, but I could be wrong. > Heck, as a kid I had worse injuries on a bicycle than I've had in any > activity as an adult. I broke my foot walking down a flight of > stairs. Based on my experience, my kid may be safer on the back of my > bike than doing a lot of other things. Life is full of risks. Sure if you base everything on your own personal experience, however I hope you are smatter than that. Life if full of risks . . . of course. But certain things tend to be riskier than others. Wouldn't you agree that riding 100,000 miles on a motorcycle is more risky than those same 100,000 miles in a car, all else being equal? Again, think large sample size and not anecdotal experience. > Hmm, people get killed and injured in amusement parks, and people > drown every year in canoing accidents. So are those risks > "necessary?" Maybe it's not a good idea to take my boys to Kings > Dominion. It would be much safer to keep them indoors watching TV and > playing video games, I guess. Again, thinks statistics and the big picture. How many millions of people go to amusements parks and how many die there? Compare those figures to motorcycling and I would wager you see a large difference in the level of risk involved (I have no proof, its just a guess I admit). In my comments I said "safer" ways of enjoyment. Not the complete elimination of all risk which you would agree is impossible. Again, I am not personally advocating any position on this subject (although it may appear that way). dave From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 08:22:31 2004 Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 04:52:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 To: DC Cycles Anyone want to loan me $1600??? What should I do next? --- mark hermes wrote: > Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 03:21:36 -0700 (PDT) > From: mark hermes > Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 > To: Mark Kitchell > > Ok , > Send me $1600 via westen union. > And give me your name and address for shipping , i > am ready to send you the bike. > This is my western union detalies: > Mark Hermes > 17 central circus > NW4 3AS > London > England > > I am in London with my wife at my broather. > > Best regards > > > Mark Kitchell wrote:Wait I > thought you were visting your brother in > London. Now your wife lives there. This is getting > confusing. > > I still want the bike though. How can I send you the > money? > > Also, will you take $1600? > > > --- Dave Yates wrote: > > My friend's name is Rita, but you can't visit her > > because she > > works and lives on a secure installation. She > rides > > a > > scooter most of the time due to the high petrol > > prices, but > > she's a qualified motorcycle rider so she'll be > able > > to tell > > that it's a good bike. > > > > what's your address? > > > > ---- Original message ---- > > >Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 14:08:56 -0700 (PDT) > > >From: mark hermes > > >Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 > > >To: Dave Yates > > > > > > I will give you my address but he can't come at > > my > > > home because my wife don't accept that , i think > > you > > > understand me. > > > Give me your friend name and address > > > > > > > > > Dave Yates wrote: > > > > > > Not me, Mark Kitchell has 1st dibs on the > > bike. > > > Just let > > > Mark know where my buddy can come to inspect > > the > > > bike. > > > > > > Dave > > > > > > ---- Original message ---- > > > >Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 13:53:29 -0700 (PDT) > > > >From: mark hermes > > > >Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - > > $1800 > > > >To: Dave Yates > > > > > > > > You can send the money at your friend via > > > western > > > > union , in this way i can check at > > westernunion > > > > website . And afther i see that you sent the > > > money i > > > > will send you the bike > > > > > > > > > > > > Dave Yates wrote: > > > > > > > > Hey Mark (Kitchell), > > > > > > > > I've got a mate in London who could probably > > go > > > > and inspect > > > > it for you. And let me know if you're not > > > > interested, I've > > > > got some spare greenbacks laying around > > too... > > > > > > > > Dave Y. > > > > > > > > >--- mark hermes > > > wrote: > > > > >> Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 12:58:08 -0700 > > (PDT) > > > > >> From: mark hermes > > > > > > >> Subject: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 > > > > >> To: Mark Kitchell > > > > > > >> > > > > >> The bike is legal, > > > > >> I am from New Your but now i am at my > > brother > > > > in > > > > >> London and i have the bike here. > > > > >> The bike is legal. Don't worry i will pay > > the > > > > >> shipping > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> Mark Kitchell > > > wrote:Ok, > > > > I > > > > >> am interested but is the bike in th! e > > US? If > > > > it > > > > >> is in England then how is it registered > > in > > > the > > > > US. > > > > >> Its very important to me that it is a > > legal > > > > bike in > > > > >>! ; the US. > > > > >> > > > > >> Who pays the shipping fee? How much is > > that? > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> --- mark hermes wrote: > > > > >> > Yes the price is 1800$. > > > > >> > I am from London and I sell this bike > > > because > > > > is > > > > >> > registered in US > > > > >> > I can send you the bike via DHL and if > > you > > > > are > > > > >> > interested I will pay all shipping > > taxes. > > > > >> > Tell me if you are realy interested to > > > start > > > > the > > > > >> > deal with me, > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Mark Kitchell wrote: > > > > >> > Hi, is price correct? It seems very > > low. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Thanks > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > __________________________________ > > > > >> > Do you Yahoo!? > > > > >> > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! > > > > HotJobs > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > > > > >> > > > > > >> > --------------------------------- > > > > >> > Do you Yahoo!? > > > > >> > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! > > > > HotJobs > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> __________________________________ > > > > >> Do you Yahoo!? > > > > >> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! > > > HotJobs > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> --------------------------------- > > > > >> Do you Yahoo!? > > > > >> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! > > > HotJobs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >__________________________________ > > > > >Do you Yahoo!? > > > > >Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! > > HotJobs > > > > > > > > > > >http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! > > HotJobs > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2' __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2' http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 08:36:32 2004 Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 08:36:27 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 To: DC Cycles Mark, Do you still want Rita to buzz over and have a look at it for you ? ;-) Dave > >Anyone want to loan me $1600??? > >What should I do next? >--- mark hermes wrote: >> Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 03:21:36 -0700 (PDT) >> From: mark hermes >> Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 >> To: Mark Kitchell >> >> Ok , >> Send me $1600 via westen union. >> And give me your name and address for shipping , i >> am ready to send you the bike. >> This is my western union detalies: >> Mark Hermes >> 17 central circus >> NW4 3AS >> London >> England >> >> I am in London with my wife at my broather. >> >> Best regards >> >> >> Mark Kitchell wrote:Wait I >> thought you were visting your brother in >> London. Now your wife lives there. This is getting >> confusing. >> >> I still want the bike though. How can I send you the >> money? >> >> Also, will you take $1600? >> >> >> --- Dave Yates wrote: >> > My friend's name is Rita, but you can't visit her >> > because she >> > works and lives on a secure installation. She >> rides >> > a >> > scooter most of the time due to the high petrol >> > prices, but >> > she's a qualified motorcycle rider so she'll be >> able >> > to tell >> > that it's a good bike. >> > >> > what's your address? >> > >> > ---- Original message ---- >> > >Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 14:08:56 -0700 (PDT) >> > >From: mark hermes >> > >Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 >> > >To: Dave Yates >> > > >> > > I will give you my address but he can't come at >> > my >> > > home because my wife don't accept that , i think >> > you >> > > understand me. >> > > Give me your friend name and address >> > > >> > > >> > > Dave Yates wrote: >> > > >> > > Not me, Mark Kitchell has 1st dibs on the >> > bike. >> > > Just let >> > > Mark know where my buddy can come to inspect >> > the >> > > bike. >> > > >> > > Dave >> > > >> > > ---- Original message ---- >> > > >Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 13:53:29 -0700 (PDT) >> > > >From: mark hermes >> > > >Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - >> > $1800 >> > > >To: Dave Yates >> > > > >> > > > You can send the money at your friend via >> > > western >> > > > union , in this way i can check at >> > westernunion >> > > > website . And afther i see that you sent the >> > > money i >> > > > will send you the bike >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > Dave Yates wrote: >> > > > >> > > > Hey Mark (Kitchell), >> > > > >> > > > I've got a mate in London who could probably >> > go >> > > > and inspect >> > > > it for you. And let me know if you're not >> > > > interested, I've >> > > > got some spare greenbacks laying around >> > too... >> > > > >> > > > Dave Y. >> > > > >> > > > >--- mark hermes >> > > wrote: >> > > > >> Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 12:58:08 -0700 >> > (PDT) >> > > > >> From: mark hermes >> > >> > > > >> Subject: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 >> > > > >> To: Mark Kitchell >> > >> > > > >> >> > > > >> The bike is legal, >> > > > >> I am from New Your but now i am at my >> > brother >> > > > in >> > > > >> London and i have the bike here. >> > > > >> The bike is legal. Don't worry i will pay >> > the >> > > > >> shipping >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> Mark Kitchell >> > > wrote:Ok, >> > > > I >> > > > >> am interested but is the bike in th! e >> > US? If >> > > > it >> > > > >> is in England then how is it registered >> > in >> > > the >> > > > US. >> > > > >> Its very important to me that it is a >> > legal >> > > > bike in >> > > > >>! ; the US. >> > > > >> >> > > > >> Who pays the shipping fee? How much is >> > that? >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> --- mark hermes wrote: >> > > > >> > Yes the price is 1800$. >> > > > >> > I am from London and I sell this bike >> > > because >> > > > is >> > > > >> > registered in US >> > > > >> > I can send you the bike via DHL and if >> > you >> > > > are >> > > > >> > interested I will pay all shipping >> > taxes. >> > > > >> > Tell me if you are realy interested to >> > > start >> > > > the >> > > > >> > deal with me, >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > Mark Kitchell wrote: >> > > > >> > Hi, is price correct? It seems very >> > low. >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > Thanks >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > __________________________________ >> > > > >> > Do you Yahoo!? >> > > > >> > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! >> > > > HotJobs >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> >> > > > >> > > >> > >> http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > --------------------------------- >> > > > >> > Do you Yahoo!? >> > > > >> > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! >> > > > HotJobs >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> __________________________________ >> > > > >> Do you Yahoo!? >> > > > >> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! >> > > HotJobs >> > > > >> >> > > > >> > > >> > >> http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> --------------------------------- >> > > > >> Do you Yahoo!? >> > > > >> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! >> > > HotJobs >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >__________________________________ >> > > > >Do you Yahoo!? >> > > > >Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! >> > HotJobs >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > ------------------------------------------------ >> > > > >> > > > Do you Yahoo!? >> > > > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! >> > HotJobs >> > > >> > > >> > ------------------------------------------------ >> > > >> > > Do you Yahoo!? >> > > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs >> >> >> >> >> >> __________________________________ >> Do you Yahoo!? >> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs >> http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover >> >> >> --------------------------------- >> Do you Yahoo!? >> Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2' > > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2' >http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861 > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 08:41:14 2004 Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 08:37:50 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Dan Brown Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 At 04:52 AM 5/12/2004 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote: >Anyone want to loan me $1600??? > >What should I do next? Ask for pictures? With a current news paper? Write a check for $1600, send some digi pics of the check and say you're going to fedex it. Maybe even spend the $$ for the fedex so you have a tracking #. You could always send an empty envelope with a taped up slice in it ;-) As for the VIN? You need to check and see how much it costs to insure, right? Your insurance person certainly will want that. >--- mark hermes wrote: > > Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 03:21:36 -0700 (PDT) > > From: mark hermes > > Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 > > To: Mark Kitchell > > > > Ok , > > Send me $1600 via westen union. > > And give me your name and address for shipping , i > > am ready to send you the bike. > > This is my western union detalies: > > Mark Hermes > > 17 central circus > > NW4 3AS > > London > > England > > > > I am in London with my wife at my broather. > > > > Best regards > > > > > > Mark Kitchell wrote:Wait I > > thought you were visting your brother in > > London. Now your wife lives there. This is getting > > confusing. > > > > I still want the bike though. How can I send you the > > money? > > > > Also, will you take $1600? > > > > > > --- Dave Yates wrote: > > > My friend's name is Rita, but you can't visit her > > > because she > > > works and lives on a secure installation. She > > rides > > > a > > > scooter most of the time due to the high petrol > > > prices, but > > > she's a qualified motorcycle rider so she'll be > > able > > > to tell > > > that it's a good bike. > > > > > > what's your address? > > > > > > ---- Original message ---- > > > >Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 14:08:56 -0700 (PDT) > > > >From: mark hermes > > > >Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 > > > >To: Dave Yates > > > > > > > > I will give you my address but he can't come at > > > my > > > > home because my wife don't accept that , i think > > > you > > > > understand me. > > > > Give me your friend name and address > > > > > > > > > > > > Dave Yates wrote: > > > > > > > > Not me, Mark Kitchell has 1st dibs on the > > > bike. > > > > Just let > > > > Mark know where my buddy can come to inspect > > > the > > > > bike. > > > > > > > > Dave > > > > > > > > ---- Original message ---- > > > > >Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 13:53:29 -0700 (PDT) > > > > >From: mark hermes > > > > >Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - > > > $1800 > > > > >To: Dave Yates > > > > > > > > > > You can send the money at your friend via > > > > western > > > > > union , in this way i can check at > > > westernunion > > > > > website . And afther i see that you sent the > > > > money i > > > > > will send you the bike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dave Yates wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hey Mark (Kitchell), > > > > > > > > > > I've got a mate in London who could probably > > > go > > > > > and inspect > > > > > it for you. And let me know if you're not > > > > > interested, I've > > > > > got some spare greenbacks laying around > > > too... > > > > > > > > > > Dave Y. > > > > > > > > > > >--- mark hermes > > > > wrote: > > > > > >> Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 12:58:08 -0700 > > > (PDT) > > > > > >> From: mark hermes > > > > > > > > >> Subject: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 > > > > > >> To: Mark Kitchell > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> The bike is legal, > > > > > >> I am from New Your but now i am at my > > > brother > > > > > in > > > > > >> London and i have the bike here. > > > > > >> The bike is legal. Don't worry i will pay > > > the > > > > > >> shipping > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Mark Kitchell > > > > wrote:Ok, > > > > > I > > > > > >> am interested but is the bike in th! e > > > US? If > > > > > it > > > > > >> is in England then how is it registered > > > in > > > > the > > > > > US. > > > > > >> Its very important to me that it is a > > > legal > > > > > bike in > > > > > >>! ; the US. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Who pays the shipping fee? How much is > > > that? > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> --- mark hermes wrote: > > > > > >> > Yes the price is 1800$. > > > > > >> > I am from London and I sell this bike > > > > because > > > > > is > > > > > >> > registered in US > > > > > >> > I can send you the bike via DHL and if > > > you > > > > > are > > > > > >> > interested I will pay all shipping > > > taxes. > > > > > >> > Tell me if you are realy interested to > > > > start > > > > > the > > > > > >> > deal with me, > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Mark Kitchell wrote: > > > > > >> > Hi, is price correct? It seems very > > > low. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Thanks > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > __________________________________ > > > > > >> > Do you Yahoo!? > > > > > >> > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! > > > > > HotJobs > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > --------------------------------- > > > > > >> > Do you Yahoo!? > > > > > >> > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! > > > > > HotJobs > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> __________________________________ > > > > > >> Do you Yahoo!? > > > > > >> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! > > > > HotJobs > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> --------------------------------- > > > > > >> Do you Yahoo!? > > > > > >> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! > > > > HotJobs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >__________________________________ > > > > > >Do you Yahoo!? > > > > > >Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! > > > HotJobs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > > > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! > > > HotJobs > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs > > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2' > > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2' >http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861 -- Resist or Serve From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 08:53:47 2004 Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 08:53:44 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch To: DC Cycles Bob M put his foot down: >On May 11, 2004, at 11:19 PM, bob@meyerweb wrote: > >> That's not a decision for you, or society, to make about >> my child. >> It's one for each family to make on their own. > >Bob, as I said, I was not advocating a position one way or >the other. However, I am sure you are willing to agree that >there are circumstances when society does need to make >decisions about other peoples children, not that it applies >to this discussion, such as its not OK for a parent to abuse >their child. [DaveY] I for one am not willing to agree that society has any interest in what I do with my kids, or vice versa. I would further postulate that your concept of 'abuse their child' and mine are radically different. From the non advocacy position that you've not taken, you seem to indicate in your more than one post that a child on the back of a moto is bad. Is that abuse? Just answer, yes or no. >In fact, whether we like it or not society does sometimes >tell us what is an unacceptable risk for our children, such >as laws that say it is too risky for a child to ride their >bicycle without a helmet on, or that its too risky to let a >child ride in a vehicle without being in a child safety >seat, or that its too risky to leave a child in a car >while the parent goes into a store to get groceries. [DaveY] You can get "society" to jump on the bandwagon for a politically popular idea for just about anything without even a shred of statistically valid evidence. More children are injured and killed in minivans than on motorcycles. We already have safety seats, and that hasn't helped, so where is the clarion call for banning children in minivans? What about those "Assault Vehicles", SUV's ? > >If you saw a child in a car not in their child safety seat >what would you think of that parent? [DaveY] Maybe the parents should've fed the portly kid a few more salads and vegetables so the kid would actually fit in the car seat maybe??? > Perhaps they are not so different form the parent who puts >their kid on the back of a motorcycle? Which child is >really in more danger here, the child in the car or on the >back of the bike? [DaveY] The kid(s) in far more danger than either have parents who think society has an interest in their upbringing. Not that I'm advocating one position or the other. >Again, thinks statistics and the big picture. [DaveY] A child wanting to ride on the moto with mom or dad is a good thing. That's a shared experience that they'll carry for life. Yup, there's risk involved, just as with any recreational activity. Probably more risk, than say...Monopoly or card games, but you know what? I think a lot of us agree that the fun factor is worth the risk. Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 09:37:37 2004 Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 09:34:23 -0400 From: Skip CC: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch Mike Bartman wrote: > It's just a form of mass hysteria. Someone, somewhere, loses a kid to > something, so everyone panics and goes overboard trying to make sure it can > never happen again. They never consider the cost of their "repair". "think of the Children" 4 words more damaging to freedom were never strung together. > I never had a bike helmet for a pedal bike until after I was in my 30s. I > fell off my bike plenty as a kid too, even in the street. We used to play > all sorts of games we'd made up...like "fighter pilot", which was sort of > like flag football on bikes, and without a ball. You wrapped a strip of > cloth around each handlebar, and if you could ride up next to someone, and > grab their cloth off, they were "shot down" and had to go to the nearest > curb (it was in a cul de sack) and fall off onto the grass...and were out > until there was a victor. One of the kids from across the street thought > it would be a good cheat to *tie* the cloth onto his bike...when I yanked > it, he was turned into me, and we both crashed (given the varying skill > levels, the close riding proximity required, and the excitement of the > chase/"kill", crashes were fairly common anyway :-). If all the kids in > the area survived stuff like that, without helmets, gloves, knee pads, or > air bags, why are today's kids so delicate that they won't? I think they > are at least as tough as we were, but the parents have been terrified by > the media and the government, and the kids don't know any better. I think that some of this has to do with the rapid and easy dissemination of information. used to be that if you didn't hear it on the 6 o'clock news or read it in the sunday paper, you didn't know about it. now there's the 4:30, 5:00, 6:00, 6:30 news, and a whole host of "news magazine" programs, there's 500 cable and satellite channels to choose from, and there's the internet. We are inundated with information. any jerk with a server is a "reputable source". we hear about little johnny and his tragic **and preventable** fall off of his rollerblades. we hear about a holdup in a mcdolalds 1000 miles away. our community is no longer that which is less than an hour away, it's the whole freaking planet. humans haven't learned how to deal with a community that large. additionally, we legislate to the lowest common denominator. and we've got some really low denominators.... --skip, done ranting for the moment. time for more go-go juice... or maybe I've had too much... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 09:48:28 2004 Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 09:48:12 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: Skip Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch Cc: DC Cycles -----Original Message----- From: Skip Sent: May 12, 2004 9:34 AM To: Cc: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch Mike Bartman wrote: > It's just a form of mass hysteria. Someone, somewhere, loses a kid to > something, so everyone panics and goes overboard trying to make sure it can > never happen again. They never consider the cost of their "repair". "think of the Children" 4 words more damaging to freedom were never strung together. ----- Absotootly. That seemed to be the tenor of Julian's co-worker's response to his desire to keep riding, up to and including parenthood. Some people seem to think injecting children's "advocacy" into a discussion is some sort of trump card or debate-stopper. Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 09:50:15 2004 Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 09:47:06 -0400 From: Skip To: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch David Cross wrote: > > I think some of you are missing the ethical gist of his question which > is the more interesting one. An adult understands the risks involved > and can make that choice. A child probably does not really understand > the level of risk involved or consequences of an accident and can not > make an informed decision. > > The adult who puts their child on the back of a motorcycle knows or > should know that they are putting their child in an unnecessarily risky > situation (their is no _need_ for a child to ride on a street > motorcycle). Would a "good" parent put their child at risk > unnecessarily just so the child and parent can have an enjoyable > experience? > > For sake of discussion, Im going to assume that their are other methods > of basic transportation available as well as safer ways for parents and > children to have enjoyable experiences together (amusement parks, > hiking, canoeing, etc.). I would also assume that everyone would agree > that in general motorcycling is more risky with greater negative > consequences than other activities such as riding in a car, little > league, etc. > > I'm not advocating a position on this one way or the other, just trying > to clear up the question. > > dave sorry I caused some topic drift... my opinion is: Parents make decisions every day for their children. Parents are tasked with investigating, quantifying, and assuming risk for their children. Different parents have different levels of risk they are willing to accept for their children. I will not let my 9 year old skydive. Some parents would. is it -wrong-? that's ultimately not for me to decide. I don't agree with it, but it is their life. Some people wont let their kids ride a bicycle. is *that* wrong? it is the parent's discretion that is the issue. where does it end? what would a "reasonable person" think is an acceptable risk? --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 09:57:49 2004 Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 09:54:33 -0400 From: Skip To: Paul Wilson CC: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch Paul Wilson wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > From: Skip > Sent: May 12, 2004 9:34 AM > To: > Cc: DC Cycles > Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch > > Mike Bartman wrote: > > > It's just a form of mass hysteria. Someone, somewhere, loses a kid to > > something, so everyone panics and goes overboard trying to make sure it can > > never happen again. They never consider the cost of their "repair". > > "think of the Children" > > 4 words more damaging to freedom were never strung together. > > ----- > > Absotootly. That seemed to be the tenor of Julian's co-worker's response to his desire to keep riding, up to and including parenthood. Some people seem to think injecting children's "advocacy" into a discussion is some sort of trump card or debate-stopper. the horrible fact is that it often is a trump. more children are injured or killed playing highschool football than are injured or killed by handguns. now that I've made that statent, I'm off to search for the research to back it up. I've found it before... and not on the NRA site, either ;-) --skip, bringing guns into the conversation early :~) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 10:01:47 2004 From: Sunil Doshi Subject: Re: Guess what... Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 10:01:44 -0400 To: "'DC Cycles'" First spotting in Del Ray, Alexandria, VA: http://widepipe.org/images/misc/cicada1.jpg "Daniel H. Brown" wrote: > > They're here... > > http://brauhaus.org/~brown/images/cicada.jpg > > (taken this morning in my back yard) > > -- > Dan Brown > brown@XXXXXX sunil :: proteus / changing your shape for the future sunil doshi, senior interface designer tel [202.452.6800 x101] [202.452.6866] fax http://proteus.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 10:02:18 2004 Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 09:59:00 -0400 From: Skip To: Mark Kitchell , DC Cycles Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 Mark Kitchell wrote: > > Anyone want to loan me $1600??? > > What should I do next? keep him going. asking for pics of the bike with a current newspaper are good, but asking for pics with him holding a sign while sitting on the bike is better. make up a story about how you're buying this for an auction for a children's charity, and the directors want a picture of the bike with charity's name. "Chicken Ranch Children's Charity" or some such. make this guy work for it. and send me a copy of that pic if you get it. :~) --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 10:27:19 2004 From: To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Low beams during daytime - required? Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 9:16:51 -0400 I just bought a set of dual halogen headlights that have a low wattage DRL bulb. Before I go through the whole idea of trying to have the DRL bulbs on during the day (with the low beam turned off), does anyone know if it's a law now that all motorcycles must have their low beams on during the day? Or is that just something the motorcycle manufacturers decided to do for safety reasons? -aki From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 10:32:35 2004 Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 10:32:19 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Low beams during daytime - required? On Wed, 12 May 2004 adamme1@XXXXXX wrote: ... > day (with the low beam turned off), does anyone know if it's > a law now that all motorcycles must have their low beams > on during the day? What jurisdiction? > Or is that just something the motorcycle manufacturers decided to do for > safety reasons? I tend to believe it is a good "increases visibilty at no great cost" sort of idea. -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 10:33:12 2004 Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 07:33:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: Low beams during daytime - required? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I believe it was required by the Department of Transportation as of 1980 or 81 that all bikes would have the headlight on at all times. Glenn --- adamme1@XXXXXX wrote: > I just bought a set of dual halogen headlights that > have a low wattage DRL bulb. Before I go through > the > whole idea of trying to have the DRL bulbs on during > the > day (with the low beam turned off), does anyone know > if it's > a law now that all motorcycles must have their low > beams > on during the day? Or is that just something the > motorcycle manufacturers decided to do for safety > reasons? > > -aki > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2' http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 10:37:34 2004 Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 10:37:33 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: Low beams during daytime - required? At 09:16 AM 5/12/2004, adamme1@XXXXXX wrote: >I just bought a set of dual halogen headlights that >have a low wattage DRL bulb. Before I go through the >whole idea of trying to have the DRL bulbs on during the >day (with the low beam turned off), does anyone know if it's >a law now that all motorcycles must have their low beams >on during the day? Virginia - no Maryland - no DC - unknown WV - yes http://www.law4hogs.com/laws/virginia.html ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles. One who does not know the enemy but knows himself will sometimes win, sometimes lose. One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself will be in danger in every battle. - Sun Tzu From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 11:06:33 2004 Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 10:58:26 -0400 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Harley Update At 08:41 PM 5/11/04 -0700, Carl Schelin wrote: >--- Mike Bartman wrote: >> Wow. I guess you got to see one from above for the first time, eh? :-) > >Nope. 30 minutes is still quite a ways away, especially on a fast sport >bike ;-) > >Wait, "from above"? Joke. You're in Denver now...the "mile high city". East of there is low country, right? :-) -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 11:24:22 2004 Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 11:24:17 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch To: David Cross Cc: DC Cycles >I think that if you decide that you are going to sexually or >physically abuse your children, society should have an >interest in protecting your children from you. But your >statement would suggest you would not agree >as this would fall under "any interest". > > > >> I >> would further postulate that your concept of 'abuse their >> child' and mine are radically different. > >See above. [DaveY] I went back and saw above, but you haven't defined abuse. Is wiping the kid's butt after (s)he soils their diaper abuse? what if the child misbehaves and gets spanked? is that abuse? You're equating abuse with the concept of carting a kid on the back of a motorcycle. Society has no business telling any of us that it is "not ok" for a child to be a motorcycle passenger. My opinion goes farther than that, but it is not germane to this discussion. > I was simply trying to put together an argument (think >philosophical arugemnt, not confrontational arguement) from >a different prospective. But if it truly interests you I >would not constitute it as abuse and would have no problem >putting my child on the back of my motorcycle. I rambled on further: You can get "society" to jump on the bandwagon for a politically popular idea for just about anything without even a shred of statistically valid evidence. > >I think that there is sufficient statistical evidence that >child safety seats do save children's lives. > > > >> >> More children are injured and killed in minivans than on >> motorcycles. > >Children spend more time in minivans than in motorcycles. >Its not the total number of injuries or deaths thats >important. Its the rate of injuries or death per time/mile >involved in the activity that is statistically important. [DaveY] But think of the children! If we can save just one child by banning minivans and SUV's, isn't it worth it? I'll gladly turn over my SUV when that law is passed, how could any reasonable person not ? >> We already have safety seats, and that hasn't >> helped, > >I think you are mistaken on this point. From were do you get >this bit of information? [DaveY] Children are still dying by the thousand in minivans despite the so called child safety seats. We have to do something. If you mean to say that they have made a positive difference, see the link below. Most assuredly child safety seats have abated the slaughter of innocent children as passengers of assault vehicles. >> Probably more risk, than >> say...Monopoly or card games, but you know what? I think a >> lot of us agree that the fun factor is worth the risk. > >If we didn't, we wouldn't be having this discussion in this >forum. It wouldn't be the "DC-Cycles List" it would be >the "Safe at Home in My Hermetically Sealed Steel Chamber >List" [DaveY] when you compare the relatively small number of motorcycle riders to the the whole population, then similarly compare the number of automobile pilots to the whole population, which is greater? Cages. Now, compare the number of moto pilots who cart their kids around vs. the number of cage pilots who cart their kids around. Which is the greater percentage? How many injuries and fatalities for under 18 year old passengers for both? The number of under 18 moto passenger injuries will be statistically insignificant compared to the cage injuries. Here's the NHTSA child facts for '02 http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/nrd- 30/NCSA/TSF2002/2002chdfacts.pdf and moto stats: http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/nrd- 30/NCSA/TSF2002/2002mcyfacts.pdf while the title and link includes the word "FACT", these documents are politically motivated, and contain assertions and conclusions which sometimes do not account for other factors in addition to the factual data. One can reasonablly conclude from the child 'facts' document that a responsible parent should not let their child walk as a pedestrian, ride a bicycle, or ride in a passenger vehicle (automobile) before considering a restriction on being a moto passenger. Of course, looking at the moto data, one would also conclude that said child ought to wear full gear including helmet, and have a pilot who is sober, licensed and not racing. Now, I at least have to perpetrate as if I'm working for a while, as I ponder my next step in eliminating minivans everywhere ;-) Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 11:37:19 2004 Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 11:37:09 -0400 To: David Cross , "bob@meyerweb" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch Cc: DC Cycles , Julian Halton At 12:53 AM 5/12/04 -0400, David Cross wrote: >In fact, whether we like it or not society does sometimes tell us what >is an unacceptable risk for our children, such as laws that say it is >too risky for a child to ride their bicycle without a helmet on, or >that its too risky to let a child ride in a vehicle without being in a >child safety seat, or that its too risky to leave a child in a car >while the parent goes into a store to get groceries. Yes, society does all that...but is society justified? My parents did all of those things...and me and my brother and my sister survived just fine. So did all of our friends. If the risk is so high, why didn't I ever hear of a kid in any school I went to who was harmed by those things? That's hundreds of kids. The the risks are so great, you'd think that at least one of them would have been seriously harmed. I'm sure someone, somewhere, sometime, was harmed by lack of each of those requirements, but there are *lots* of things that have harmed people that we pretty much ignore. People choke on fish bones for instance...should we outlaw feeding fish to kids? >If you saw a child in a car not in their child safety seat what would >you think of that parent? Are you suggesting that I should think poorly of my parents? >> Heck, as a kid I had worse injuries on a bicycle than I've had in any >> activity as an adult. I broke my foot walking down a flight of >Sure if you base everything on your own personal experience, however I >hope you are smatter than that. Life if full of risks . . . of course. >But certain things tend to be riskier than others. Certain *people* tend to be riskier than others too. I've never even considered sticking a hot cup of coffee in my crotch for instance, or using my lawnmower as a hedge trimmer, or popping wheelies through an intersection on a motorcycle (saw that happen Saturday...). Should we ban stupid people from having kids? That might be a better way to go. Then we wouldn't need all these rules. People would be smart enough to evaluate situations on their own, like my parents did, and like all the other parents did until the most recent generation. >Wouldn't you agree >that riding 100,000 miles on a motorcycle is more risky than those same >100,000 miles in a car, all else being equal? Again, think large sample >size and not anecdotal experience. All else being equal? I'm not at all sure. Why would it be more risky? You are most likely basing your implied assumption on the current statistics for accident rates between cars and bikes, and the results thereof. The current figures include a certain skewing though, based on the sorts of people who choose to ride and who choose not to, and the resulting *way* that they ride. What is the age/experience distribution for each type of vehicle? What is the trip type (bar hopping? Touring? Day? Night?)? We don't really know, so we don't know why the figures are the way they are...whether it's due to inherent design factors, or to use factors. If it's use factors, then all else being equal, the risk would be about the same. If an actual collision happens, and it's between a bike and a car, the bike is going to come off worse of course. Same with a car and a semi. However, lots of people go 100,000 miles without being in a serious accident. I have, a couple of times (in cars and trucks...have to wait and see with the bike). Other people get into serious accidents multiple times in the same distance. We don't know if it's their fault that this happens, or due to other factors (sports car? Mini-Van? Age? Area? Weather?). All we really know are the numbers that are tracked, and the numbers don't track all the factors. Maybe not even the most important ones. >> Hmm, people get killed and injured in amusement parks, and people >> drown every year in canoing accidents. So are those risks >> "necessary?" Maybe it's not a good idea to take my boys to Kings >> Dominion. It would be much safer to keep them indoors watching TV and >> playing video games, I guess. > >Again, thinks statistics and the big picture. How many millions of >people go to amusements parks and how many die there? Compare those >figures to motorcycling and I would wager you see a large difference in >the level of risk involved (I have no proof, its just a guess I admit). Here you seem to be weighing risk vs. benefit. That's good. The question then becomes whether there's enough benefit to outweigh the increased risk (assuming that it is riskier, which does seem likely to some extent). That's a judgement call that will vary from kid to kid...and who is likely to know this better than the parent? Some bureaucrat or passerby? > In my comments I said "safer" ways of enjoyment. Not the complete >elimination of all risk which you would agree is impossible. > >Again, I am not personally advocating any position on this subject >(although it may appear that way). You're being devil's advocate. To some extent, so am I. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 11:45:49 2004 Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 11:43:37 -0400 To: Skip , Paul Wilson From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch Cc: DC Cycles At 09:54 AM 5/12/04 -0400, Skip wrote: >--skip, bringing guns into the conversation early :~) Hitler! Hitler! Hitler! (is it dead yet?? :-) -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 12:41:21 2004 Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 09:41:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Low beams during daytime - required? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- "Daniel H. Brown" wrote: > On Wed, 12 May 2004 adamme1@XXXXXX wrote: > ... > > day (with the low beam turned off), does anyone know if it's > > a law now that all motorcycles must have their low beams > > on during the day? > > What jurisdiction? > > > Or is that just something the motorcycle manufacturers decided to do > for > > safety reasons? > > I tend to believe it is a good "increases visibilty at no great cost" > sort > of idea. Well, in the 70's when it became law (I remember my 250 had an on/off switch but my 360 only had the high beam switch), it meant you were the only vehicle out in the day time with your head lights on. If your lights were on in your car, people would flash their lights at you or flip them on and off to tell you. Now, with everyone jumping on the visibility bandwagon, you need to run with high beams, running lights, and a rotating light on your helmet. It's still a good thing, but I think our visibility has been reduced. > > -- > Dan Brown > brown@XXXXXX Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2' http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 12:44:12 2004 Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 09:44:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Harley Update To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 08:41 PM 5/11/04 -0700, Carl Schelin wrote: > >--- Mike Bartman wrote: > > >> Wow. I guess you got to see one from above for the first time, eh? > :-) > > > >Nope. 30 minutes is still quite a ways away, especially on a fast sport > >bike ;-) > > > >Wait, "from above"? > > Joke. You're in Denver now...the "mile high city". East of there is > low > country, right? :-) Yea, when I typed it is when I "got it" :-) But, it's not a sudden leap a mile into the air. Denver isn't on a butte. It's gradual. Rita thought Kansas was flat until we drove a heavily loaded moving truck while towing a trailer with two motorcycles. In fact, western Kansas and eastern Colorado is pretty flat. > > -- Mike B. Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2' http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 13:28:33 2004 Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 13:28:36 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG Apparently the real world MPG ratings for the Toyota and Honda hybrids place them squarely equal or lower than most motorcycle MPG. I filled up today and had 38MPG on the VFR this week. http://www.wired.com/news/autotech/0,2554,63413,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_1 ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles. One who does not know the enemy but knows himself will sometimes win, sometimes lose. One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself will be in danger in every battle. - Sun Tzu From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 13:42:21 2004 Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 13:42:07 -0400 From: Brian Roach To: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch David Cross wrote: > I think some of you are missing the ethical gist of his question which > is the more interesting one. An adult understands the risks involved > and can make that choice. A child probably does not really understand > the level of risk involved or consequences of an accident and can not > make an informed decision. Actually ... that's exactly the point I was trying to make. And your "non-position" was the one I was fishing for :) Who's raising kids - Parents, or "society"? The PARENT makes choices for their child. That's their job. Society should stop worrying so much about what everyone else is doing. Is letting a young kid ride on a motorcycle an "unnecessary risk"? Absolutely. So's letting them climb trees, have tree-houses, ride bikes, play sports, go camping, etc, etc, etc. None of these things are "necessary" and put the child in a position where they could be, and often are, injured. Or maybe, just maybe, they ARE necessary ... because a child devoid of real life experiences is a pretty screwed up kid. The current "think of the children" hysteria is ridiculous in my humble opinion. I whole heartedly agree with the other folks on the list who have brought up so many points about how none of us, or anyone we knew, as children were maimed, disfigured, or killed by any of the so called "risks" society now deems "unnecessary" for our children. If I ever had a kid, he'd be on the bike as soon as I felt he was ready ... probably between my legs so he could hold onto the bars :) - Roach -- http://www.speedwerks.com The one-stop shop for all your motorcycling needs! (302) 672 - 7223 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 14:03:07 2004 Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 11:03:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Troutman wrote: > Apparently the real world MPG ratings for the Toyota and Honda hybrids > place them squarely equal or lower than most motorcycle MPG. I filled > up > today and had 38MPG on the VFR this week. > > http://www.wired.com/news/autotech/0,2554,63413,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_1 > Yea, I made a comment to Dr. Gridlock that the Hybrid cars _should_ be in rush hour traffic and not HOV. That's where they get the best mileage and you'd see the highest reduction in emissions. The article seems to say the same thing: "Toyota environmental engineer Dave Hermance says the EPA city test includes 19 stops of at least a few seconds, which take up a "non-trivial" amount of the test and could cause hybrid cars to rate even higher than conventional cars because of their reliance on electric motors." I've seen Hybrid folks take multiple people in their cars in HOV and that's the best use. Because once they get into DC (or other slow traffic), they become the vehicle they're advertised as. OV was just a carrot to get people in to the vehicles since they cost a bit more than a regular car. If you're a lead-foot, then a Hybrid won't get the advertised mileage, same with a motorcycle. The difference between the two is that as long as the Hybrid is running at speeds past 25MPH, it's not likely that they will get better mileage than a motorcycle. My Harley got something like 46MPG before I added the stage one kit. Now it gets 42MPG. The difference was just enough to force me to fill up every other day. Before the kit, there were times that, if I was a little better with the wrist, I could ride three days on a tank of gas. > > ___________________________________________ > Mike Troutman Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2' http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 14:07:17 2004 Subject: RE: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:07:08 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Troutman" , More of a commentary on the sad state of government data modeling as a politically-laden substitute for "real science." Rather appalling when you consider what the discrepancy in these actual versus advertised rates imply when looking at the stats for vehicles like SUVs and light trucks. (Bleahh.) Really appalling if these "estimated" figures are used to quantify fuel consumption projections, although the government probably uses actual figures for these kind of projections. (Double bleahh...) I think it all depends on expectations. The Edmunds' site tested the Toyota Prius, and average mileage was 46 MPG, nothing to sneeze at for a four door sedan. The article in Wired reflects an owners disappointment in the actual gas mileage for a Honda Civic, advertised to get 47/48 MPG, and actually returning 31.8, or only 67% of the advertised mileage. The Prius hybrid is advertised to get 55-60 MPG, and actually returns 46, so that works out to 80% of the advertised. All that aside, I was a bit puzzled how Edmunds' reviewers could get 46 MPG out of the Prius and Consumer Reports (cited in the Wired article) were only able to wring 35 MPG out of it; it would be nice to see the test data to see exactly which vehicles were being compared. Motorcycles do seem to have the edge here, but again, we've seen some mileage figures for "spirited riding" that don't come anywhere near what the manufacturers advertise! I tend to go by what other riders have said are the real world figures, it makes me feel a little better when my '83 Interceptor gets the "average" 35 MPG, although I still find myself looking at the Prius hatchback with some envy... ;-) Robert -----Original Message----- From: Troutman [mailto:mike@XXXXXX] Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 1:29 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG Apparently the real world MPG ratings for the Toyota and Honda hybrids place them squarely equal or lower than most motorcycle MPG. I filled up today and had 38MPG on the VFR this week. http://www.wired.com/news/autotech/0,2554,63413,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_1 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 14:31:48 2004 Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:32:14 -0400 To: Troutman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG At 01:28 PM 5/12/04 -0400, Troutman wrote: >Apparently the real world MPG ratings for the Toyota and Honda hybrids >place them squarely equal or lower than most motorcycle MPG. I filled up >today and had 38MPG on the VFR this week. I've been checking my H-D mileage since the gas gauge design sucks rocks and doesn't work (of course, it's also the first bike I've had that *had* a gas gauge, so I'm not missing it much :-). I was getting 39.5 with all the slow riding, in traffic and parking lot stuff I was doing, and 45-48 when it was mostly highway (up 95 to Delaware trip). Since I've put the Stage 1 air cleaner on and gotten it a bit more HP (just a bit...), it's dropped slightly, to about 36 mpg for the slow traffic stuff, and 42 for the highway with some traffic and back roads (St. Mary's county trip last weekend). -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 14:48:22 2004 Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:48:12 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: "Verde,Robert" , Troutman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG -----Original Message----- From: "Verde, Robert" Motorcycles do seem to have the edge here, but again, we've seen some mileage figures for "spirited riding" that don't come anywhere near what the manufacturers advertise! I tend to go by what other riders have said are the real world figures, it makes me feel a little better when my '83 Interceptor gets the "average" 35 MPG, although I still find myself looking at the Prius hatchback with some envy... ;-) Robert ----- Hmmm, FWIW, and it ain't worth much, my KLR650 gets just a hair under 50 mpg. Hit reserve at 255 miles on Sat. Reserve is at the 5-gallon mark. Those are Kawi miles, btw, usual odo descrepancies apply with respect to statute miles. I get plenty of gpg (grins per gallon) too. YMMV in the grins department piloting one of those green-weenie tin cans. ;-) A modernized, fuel-injected KLR mill could prolly turn in substantially better numbers. Personally I'm waiting on the civilian version of the mil-spec diesel KLR, which gets outstanding mileage and has amazing range. VFR gets ~40-42 mpg if I'm not too frisky with the Go Handle. Keeping your carbureted bikes in a good state of tune really helps with fuel economy. Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 14:49:31 2004 Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:51:01 -0400 To: "Verde, Robert" , "Troutman" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG At 02:07 PM 5/12/04 -0400, Verde, Robert wrote: >gets the "average" 35 MPG, although I still find myself looking at the Prius >hatchback with some envy... ;-) I don't even bother paying attention to these things. They are all designed for midgets, not full-sized adults. If you are near or below average male height, they are probably an option for you. If not, they will be anything from uncomfortable and perhaps long-term damaging to totally impossible to drive, depending on how much over average male height you are. The same is true of almost *all* cars and light trucks these days. I have a '98 Jeep Grand Cherokee because it was the smallest vehicle I could actually fit in that had any cargo capability. In '99 they lowered the roof line and I can no longer fit into the current models, so this is the last one I'll own. The same thing happened with my prior vehicle, a '92 Pathfinder. When I went to get a new one, I found that they'd widened the center console at least an inch, and taken away my right shin room, so I could no longer reach the gas pedal...no more Nissan's either. Toyota 4-Runner? Nope...parking brake is where the right shin needs to go. Mitsubishi Monterro? Great room, particularly for the head, and it would have been a good choice for me...if some moron hadn't decided to drop the speakers down out the bottom of the dash and take away the shin room. Toyota's pickups? No head room, no leg room, no way to move the seat back any farther. Honda's SUV? Smaller than the Pathfinder, no way to fit into it. I'm guessing my next vehicle, whenever the Jeep wears out (which will take a while given how much I drive it...just over 45,000 miles on it since October of '97), is likely to be a restored something-or-other from the 50s, 60s or 70s...back before the CAFE standards started shrinking cars down to Munchkin size vehicles. Maybe a restored pickup with a nice big crate motor in it... :-) At least bikes have plenty of head room and shoulder room, if not as much leg room as I might like... -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 14:54:34 2004 Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:54:18 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: RE: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG At 02:51 PM 5/12/2004, Mike Bartman wrote: >I don't even bother paying attention to these things. They are all >designed for midgets, not full-sized adults. If you are near or below >average male height, they are probably an option for you. If not, they >will be anything from uncomfortable and perhaps long-term damaging to >totally impossible to drive, depending on how much over average male height >you are. The same is true of almost *all* cars and light trucks these days. True - I am 6'1" and our Accord (used for ferrying dogs to the vet and fetching groceries) barely fits me. I have the driver's seat at full stop, and my legs are still bent. The F150 does not have this problem. I managed to whack my shin with an axe this weekend, and I felt some trepidation riding in today riding on the balls of my feet. It hurt a good deal by the time I got to work (~45mins) and will hopefully not be any worse for the hour ride home. Note to self - swing gently and avoid bony regions. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles. One who does not know the enemy but knows himself will sometimes win, sometimes lose. One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself will be in danger in every battle. - Sun Tzu From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 15:00:24 2004 Subject: RE: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG - axes Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 15:00:13 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: Count yourself lucky it was just an axe... My little brother has a notch in his shin caused by a chainsaw kicking back on an undercut. All part of the perils of growing up in the country, and the necessity of feeding the wood stove! (I've got a scar at my hairline where my sister tagged me with a hatchet, but that's another story. Wasn't even a very big hatchet... ;-> ) Robert -----Original Message----- From: Troutman [mailto:mike@XXXXXX] Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 2:54 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG At 02:51 PM 5/12/2004, Mike Bartman wrote: >I don't even bother paying attention to these things. They are all >designed for midgets, not full-sized adults. If you are near or below >average male height, they are probably an option for you. If not, they >will be anything from uncomfortable and perhaps long-term damaging to >totally impossible to drive, depending on how much over average male height >you are. The same is true of almost *all* cars and light trucks these days. True - I am 6'1" and our Accord (used for ferrying dogs to the vet and fetching groceries) barely fits me. I have the driver's seat at full stop, and my legs are still bent. The F150 does not have this problem. I managed to whack my shin with an axe this weekend, and I felt some trepidation riding in today riding on the balls of my feet. It hurt a good deal by the time I got to work (~45mins) and will hopefully not be any worse for the hour ride home. Note to self - swing gently and avoid bony regions. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 15:03:26 2004 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: "Verde, Robert" , "Troutman" , Subject: Re: RE: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 15:03:20 -0400 > > From: "Verde, Robert" > All that aside, I was a bit puzzled how Edmunds' reviewers could get 46 MPG out of the Prius and Consumer Reports (cited in the Wired article) were only able to wring 35 MPG out of it; it would be nice to see the test data to see exactly which vehicles were being compared. > The difference in their test routes, speeds, how hard they accelerate, etc. The slower the speed, the gentler the acceleration, the more time spent at "idle," the better a hybrid is going to do. Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" '92 ST1100, "red STag" '02 919, "still looking for a name" A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers.... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 15:04:03 2004 From: "Shigeru Honda" To: Subject: Re: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 15:03:44 -0400 a friend of mine has Honda Insight and it constantly gets like 60mpg. I guess you need combination of weight, friction & aerodynamic to get good mpg. bikes got advantage on weight & friction but not too good on aerodynamic (no roof). If bikes get better aerodynamic then it should get better mpg. regular cars have generally good aerodynamic but sucks on weight & friction. Looks like Honda Insight is good on all these 3 factors, but fat dude won't get any good mpg? --------------------- Shigeru Honda 98 SuperHawk (Street) 99 750 SS (Track #881) 02 MZ Skorpion Tour (Commuter) 91 CR80 (new toy) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Troutman" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 1:28 PM Subject: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG > Apparently the real world MPG ratings for the Toyota and Honda hybrids > place them squarely equal or lower than most motorcycle MPG. I filled up > today and had 38MPG on the VFR this week. > > http://www.wired.com/news/autotech/0,2554,63413,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_1 > > > ___________________________________________ > Mike Troutman > http://www.troutman.org/vfr > 1997 Honda VFR 750 > AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ > NMA http://www.motorists.org > > One who knows the enemy and knows himself > will not be in danger in a hundred battles. > One who does not know the enemy but knows himself > will sometimes win, sometimes lose. > One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself > will be in danger in every battle. > - Sun Tzu > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 15:06:12 2004 Subject: RE: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 15:06:01 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: That's okay, they are probably just engineering for the future; "Researchers have made a startling discovery: Americans are shrinking. A nation once famed for its strapping, well-nourished youth is gradually diminishing in physical stature. By contrast, the heights of men and women from Europe are increasing inexorably. The average Dutchman, whose country produces the Continent's loftiest men, is now more than six feet tall - almost two inches above his American counterpart. And he is still growing. Across the Netherlands hotel owners are lengthening beds and raising door mantles to stop the nation's tall youth suffering from irreparable anatomical damage." http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1185457,00.html ;-) Robert -----Original Message----- From: Mike Bartman [mailto:omni@XXXXXX] Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 2:51 PM To: Verde, Robert; Troutman; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG At 02:07 PM 5/12/04 -0400, Verde, Robert wrote: >gets the "average" 35 MPG, although I still find myself looking at the Prius >hatchback with some envy... ;-) I don't even bother paying attention to these things. They are all designed for midgets, not full-sized adults. If you are near or below average male height, they are probably an option for you. If not, they will be anything from uncomfortable and perhaps long-term damaging to totally impossible to drive, depending on how much over average male height you are. The same is true of almost *all* cars and light trucks these days. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 15:18:31 2004 Subject: RE: RE: Hybrid MPG ratings Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 15:18:21 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: , "Troutman" , I figured that contributed to the difference between the advertised and actual MPG ratings, but not necessarily the tested ratings. A hybrid vehicle, from what I've read, does better in stop and go traffic, because it optimizes the use of the electric engine, and, in the case of the Prius, regenerative braking systems. In steady freeway driving, the gas engine comes into play more often (continously?) and the electric motor benefits are partially cancelled out. However, taking these factors into account, the Prius should still be able to do stoplight-to-stoplight runs with the best of them, and get decent mileage. What I was wondering was how one set of reviewers was able to drop the advertised rating by almost fifty percent, while another set got a respectable 80% of advertised. Since these were both averages, the difference over a tank or two should tend to even out. It might be that the Consumer Reports team tested an older model of the Prius, the Edmunds review I linked to was for the 2004 model. All that aside, I'd still be more likely to get a DL1000 (or two) before spending the dough on a similar commuter vehicle with four wheels. (Or, the HMMVs of the bike world, the Aprilia CapoNord Rally Raid/BMW GS1200...) If Daimler-Chrysler sold the Smart cars here in the US I might be tempted, but the first model they are test marketing here is the Smart For-four, still too much cage for me! Robert -----Original Message----- From: Bob Meyer [mailto:rmeyer9@XXXXXX] Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 3:03 PM To: Verde, Robert; Troutman; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: RE: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG > > From: "Verde, Robert" > All that aside, I was a bit puzzled how Edmunds' reviewers could get 46 MPG out of the Prius and Consumer Reports (cited in the Wired article) were only able to wring 35 MPG out of it; it would be nice to see the test data to see exactly which vehicles were being compared. > The difference in their test routes, speeds, how hard they accelerate, etc. The slower the speed, the gentler the acceleration, the more time spent at "idle," the better a hybrid is going to do. Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" '92 ST1100, "red STag" '02 919, "still looking for a name" A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers.... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 15:24:35 2004 Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 15:25:42 -0400 To: "Verde, Robert" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG At 03:06 PM 5/12/04 -0400, Verde, Robert wrote: >That's okay, they are probably just engineering for the future; > >"Researchers have made a startling discovery: Americans are shrinking. A nation once famed for its strapping, well-nourished youth is gradually diminishing in physical stature. By contrast, the heights of men and women And you believe the Guardian??? What's next, the Enquirer? I think they failed to take into account immigration. We've gotten *lots* of folks from south of the border, Vietnam and other places not really known for overly tall people. I'm sure that's dragging the average down more than Big Macs are. Take a look at the teens at the local mall sometime...there are *lots* of them who are well over 6' tall...even the girls. Far more than when I was a kid. Maybe I should start a business custom-building bikes for tall people? Only need to alter the frame dimensions...the rest of the stuff can be out of the big books. If the fast food craze keeps up, a sideline for the obese might be worthwhile. Dual sidecars for the butt cheeks... Big & Tall Bikeworks maybe? :-) -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 15:57:43 2004 Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 15:57:41 -0400 From: "Chris Norloff" Reply-To: To: Subject: Re: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG My wife's Prius averages 40-44mpg (better in the warmer weather). Still better than a regular car - but yes, not better than a typical bike. Chris Norloff ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Troutman Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 13:28:36 -0400 >Apparently the real world MPG ratings for the Toyota and Honda hybrids >place them squarely equal or lower than most motorcycle MPG. I filled up >today and had 38MPG on the VFR this week. > >http://www.wired.com/news/autotech/0,2554,63413,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_1 > > >___________________________________________ > Mike Troutman > http://www.troutman.org/vfr > 1997 Honda VFR 750 > AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ > NMA http://www.motorists.org > >One who knows the enemy and knows himself >will not be in danger in a hundred battles. >One who does not know the enemy but knows himself >will sometimes win, sometimes lose. >One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself >will be in danger in every battle. > - Sun Tzu > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 16:01:07 2004 Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 16:01:04 -0400 From: "Chris Norloff" Reply-To: To: Subject: RE: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG Our 2003 Prius has a lot of room inside. At 6 ft. 2 in. and 280 lb. I appreciate that. It's comfortable for me; it has more interior cabin room than our previous 1995 Toyota Corolla Wagon, less than my 1993 Toyota Camry Wagon. Chris Norloff ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Mike Bartman Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:51:01 -0400 >At 02:07 PM 5/12/04 -0400, Verde, Robert wrote: >>gets the "average" 35 MPG, although I still find myself looking at the Prius >>hatchback with some envy... ;-) > >I don't even bother paying attention to these things. They are all >designed for midgets, not full-sized adults. If you are near or below >average male height, they are probably an option for you. If not, they >will be anything from uncomfortable and perhaps long-term damaging to >totally impossible to drive, depending on how much over average male height >you are. The same is true of almost *all* cars and light trucks these days. > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 16:04:15 2004 Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 16:04:13 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: More on headlights on bikes in VA http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+46.2-912 Skip called me on it, so I did a search. Technically, you can ride without a headlight in VA, but under very specific circumstances : )B§ 46.2-912. Operating motorcycle without headlight, horn or rearview mirror. A. Notwithstanding any other provision of law, motorcycles may be operated without headlights, horns, or rearview mirrors on public highways if all the following conditions are met: 1. The motorcycles are designed for use in trail riding and endurance runs; 2. The motorcycles are being driven by duly licensed persons; 3. The motorcycles are being operated between sunrise and sunset; and 4. The motorcycles are being operated during endurance runs sanctioned by the American Motorcycle Association. B. No person shall operate motorcycles without such equipment on the public highways of the Commonwealth other than at the times and under the circumstances set forth in this section. (1970, c. 300, )B§ 46.1-172.01; 1978, c. 605; 1989, c. 727.) ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles. One who does not know the enemy but knows himself will sometimes win, sometimes lose. One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself will be in danger in every battle. - Sun Tzu From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 16:05:20 2004 Subject: RE: You bike does better than an averge height person in a hybrid... (Way OT) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 16:05:11 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Mike Bartman" , How about The New Yorker? "The obvious answer would seem to be immigration. The more Mexicans and Chinese there are in the United States, the shorter the American population becomes. But the height statistics that Komlos cites include only native-born Americans who speak English at home, and he is careful to screen out people of Asian and Hispanic descent. In any case, according to Richard Steckel, who has also analyzed American heights, the United States takes in too few immigrants to account for the disparity with Northern Europe." http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040405fa_fact Doesn't sound too promising for the Big and Tall Bike Company... Not sure what the prospects are for the clothing retailer, either, the ones in Portland (not a place noted for skinny people, BTW) were closing in most of the local malls. Googling for retail establishments came up with a handful, far more were online-only. I suspect that Amurricans don't like to think of themselves as, er, larger than average, except in a couple of specific areas. Clothing manufacturers have quietly pandered to this unease, flattering buyers with clothing size labels that bear little resemblance to actual measurements. "Why, I wear the same size that I wore in college!" Yeah, and that means exactly squat. Robert -----Original Message----- From: Mike Bartman [mailto:omni@XXXXXX] Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 3:26 PM To: Verde, Robert; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG At 03:06 PM 5/12/04 -0400, Verde, Robert wrote: >That's okay, they are probably just engineering for the future; > >"Researchers have made a startling discovery: Americans are shrinking. A nation once famed for its strapping, well-nourished youth is gradually diminishing in physical stature. By contrast, the heights of men and women And you believe the Guardian??? What's next, the Enquirer? I think they failed to take into account immigration. We've gotten *lots* of folks from south of the border, Vietnam and other places not really known for overly tall people. I'm sure that's dragging the average down more than Big Macs are. Take a look at the teens at the local mall sometime...there are *lots* of them who are well over 6' tall...even the girls. Far more than when I was a kid. Maybe I should start a business custom-building bikes for tall people? Only need to alter the frame dimensions...the rest of the stuff can be out of the big books. If the fast food craze keeps up, a sideline for the obese might be worthwhile. Dual sidecars for the butt cheeks... Big & Tall Bikeworks maybe? :-) -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 16:16:25 2004 Subject: RE: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 16:16:16 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: My only real point in the earlier interchange was that it's not exactly a valid comparison, as we're not talking bikes that can carry four people... Ignoring the issue of how many vehicles on the road today are single-driver vehicles, if you compare the number of motorcycles that would be needed to carry four people (plus luggage) then each bike would have to get 80+ MPG to compare to the Prius. (As an aside, it might be interesting to compare driver/vehicle percentages for larger SUVs (purchase justified by necessity to carry multiple passengers) versus compact cars. I would expect that there are far more people per vehicle for the smaller cheaper vehicles, than in the larger, more expensive vehicles. Just a guess... ) Not to mention that many of the new hybrids are ULEVs and partial ZLEVs, and most motorycles on the road today don't have to meet any emissions standards. There are some moto manufacturers implementing low-emissions bikes, but this is largely due to the tougher European market forcing these changes. Robert -----Original Message----- From: Chris Norloff [mailto:cnorloff@XXXXXX] Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 4:01 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG Our 2003 Prius has a lot of room inside. At 6 ft. 2 in. and 280 lb. I appreciate that. It's comfortable for me; it has more interior cabin room than our previous 1995 Toyota Corolla Wagon, less than my 1993 Toyota Camry Wagon. Chris Norloff From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 16:56:39 2004 Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 16:58:14 -0400 To: , From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG I'm 6'6", 280 lbs. The extra 4" makes a huge difference. My ex-wife had a 1990 Camry sedan. I could drive it, but only if I tipped my head to one side a bit (that was with the seat all the way back, and leaning way back...far enough that the shoulder belt wasn't positioned properly...several inches in front of my shoulder)...if the Prius is more cramped than that, it's impossible for me. For reference, my Grand Cherokee has less than an inch of head room, but otherwise isn't bad. The current Grand Cherokees are too low to drive. No other Jeep is even in the running, due both to head room and leg room. Saabs are a joke...no way in hell. I can barely fit in the front of one as a passenger...no way I could drive one. I haven't bothered to check on most other cars recently...all the ones I looked at shrank below the useable limit over 10 years ago, though it's possible that Cadilac or Buick might have one of their larger ones with enough room to fit into. I'd rather have a full-size pickup though. More useful, cheaper and no worse on gas guzzling. Almost all the cars from the 50s, 60s and 70s fit just fine. It's the CAFE standards that are mandating tinier and tinier cars. If they keep it up, eventually *everyone* will have to ride a bike...or restore a "classic". -- Mike B. At 04:01 PM 5/12/04 -0400, Chris Norloff wrote: >Our 2003 Prius has a lot of room inside. At 6 ft. 2 in. and 280 lb. I appreciate that. It's comfortable for me; it has more interior cabin room than our previous 1995 Toyota Corolla Wagon, less than my 1993 Toyota Camry Wagon. > >Chris Norloff > >---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- >From: Mike Bartman >Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:51:01 -0400 > >>At 02:07 PM 5/12/04 -0400, Verde, Robert wrote: >>>gets the "average" 35 MPG, although I still find myself looking at the Prius >>>hatchback with some envy... ;-) >> >>I don't even bother paying attention to these things. They are all >>designed for midgets, not full-sized adults. If you are near or below >>average male height, they are probably an option for you. If not, they >>will be anything from uncomfortable and perhaps long-term damaging to >>totally impossible to drive, depending on how much over average male height >>you are. The same is true of almost *all* cars and light trucks these days. >> > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 16:58:44 2004 Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 12:05:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: The Motorcycle Diaries To: DC Cycles This film is a favorite at Cannes. Great book as is the modern follow up 'Chasing Che' Trailer: http://snipurl.com/6c4o __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2' http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 17:08:55 2004 Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 17:10:28 -0400 To: "Verde, Robert" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG At 04:16 PM 5/12/04 -0400, Verde, Robert wrote: >(As an aside, it might be interesting to compare driver/vehicle percentages for larger SUVs (purchase justified by necessity to carry multiple passengers) Who says that's the "justification" (like one is actually needed in a free country...)? My "justification" is that I can fit into it, unlike almost all cars (certainly all compact cars). I can also carry the things I sometimes need to carry with it, unlike with a car, compact or otherwise. The local hospital wasn't at all unhappy that I chose a vehicle that's hated by the average unthinking, PC liberal when we had that big snowstorm last year...they were begging for SUV and other 4WD owners to come help get their compact car driving employees to and from work. I also probably burn less gas in it than the average compact car owner, due to the low annual mileage I put on it (working from home will do that). Sick of idiot PC liberals and their insulting bigotry. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 17:24:49 2004 Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:24:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Lurking Subject: insurance loss rates for motorcycles? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Hello again, Your friendly neighborhood lurker here again. I've been thinking about purchasing a new motorcycle and I called around to 3 insurance companies to get rate quotes on some of the bikes I'm considering. The premiums were awfully high (most over $3,000 per year) for full coverage. I don't have a perfect record, but it's not terrible either. I'm 25 and have one ticket, one auto collision claim, and one comprehensive auto claim in the past 3 years. Anyway, I'm not going to ask about how to get a lower rate because I know by this time next year the two insurance claims will drop off my "3 year record" and the rates will be much more reasonable (which is why I'm probably going to wait until this winter to buy my new bike). What I'm wondering is if anyone knows a source for the "multiplier" that insurance companies use for each individual bike model. I could use this to see which motorcycle model will have the best and worst effect on insurance premiums and that would aid my decision process. I spent hours on the phone with the insurance companies to get quotes for only a select few bikes. If I had the loss rate for each model it would likely translate into the effect that the model of motorcycle has on one's insurance premium. This would be very useful information for consumers, although I'm sure the manufacters of the "high risk" bikes would do their darndest to keep a lid on such risk data (at least for consumers). I'm not buying a super-sport even. I'm looking a some naked sportbikes (or sport touring), such as the Honda 919, Yamaha FZ1/FZ6, and Aprilia Tuono. It seems that insurance companies rate most sport bikes the same, whether they are true supersports (R1, GSX1000, Ninja 9R) or more relaxed bikes like the ones I'm considering (not that the ones I'm considering aren't really powerful and fast). It really is interesting, along with frustrating, to learn more about how insurance companies rate individuals and their vehicles. -Kipp. ===== "If we cannot live so as to be happy, let us least live so as to deserve it." - Immanuel Hermann Fichte (1797-1879) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2' http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 17:27:12 2004 Subject: RE: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 17:27:01 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: I like this one: http://www.unixpapa.com/cars.html ;-) Even by these humourous standards, Mike, you would qualify, so don't worry, no one is attacking your desire to drive a Jeep. I was referring to the reasons people give in response to the question; "Why did you decide to buy [Product x]?" as "justification. If you prefer another word with equivalent connotation and denotation, please suggest one. I recommend the following for your reading enjoyment; http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1586481231/p11-20/ref%3Dnosim/103-7944493-7283841 Or; http://www.drivers.com/article/621/ But, I'll take your comments in the politest possible interpretation, and withdraw the [SUV] portion of my previous side-bar question, replacing it with [mini-van] as an equivalent people-carrier. Better now? I think the potential survey would still make interesting reading. ;-] Robert -----Original Message----- From: Mike Bartman [mailto:omni@XXXXXX] Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 5:10 PM To: Verde, Robert; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG At 04:16 PM 5/12/04 -0400, Verde, Robert wrote: >(As an aside, it might be interesting to compare driver/vehicle percentages for larger SUVs (purchase justified by necessity to carry multiple passengers) Who says that's the "justification" (like one is actually needed in a free country...)? Sick of idiot PC liberals and their insulting bigotry. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 17:38:35 2004 Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:38:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Lurking Subject: FS: 1986 Yamaha YX600 Radian - 600cc "standard" - 12,000 mi. - $1600 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I bought this bike last year in early May. It is my first motorcycle. I have put in a new battery, new rear tire, cleaned the carbs, and re-lined the gas tank. All work professionally performed by Fairfax Cycles (great shop near FFX circle). All the work I've done adds up to over $900. Nothing needed to ride this bike away! Clean title in my name and full records. Purple paint job by previous owner. Selling because I'm looking to move up to something newer. This is an awesome bike for beginners and shorter people (the seat height is approx 29.5"). Good power from the 600 cc inline 4 cylinder engine. I've ridden it over 3,500 miles this past year and nary a problem has presented itself. Garage kept throughout my ownership. $1,600 price is firm. There is a small oil leak that I am almost sure is from the oil filter seal. I think it just needs a new rubber washer/seal to solve this problem, but consider yourself notified beforehand ;) If no one buys the bike this month, I'll be performing an oil change myself and we'll see if that rectifies the issue. I don't have a digital photograph of the bike yet, but I'm planning on taking some shots this weekend when a friend visits with his digital camera (yeah, I'm a late adoptor of that technology). If you have any questions I'll be happy to answer them. ===== "If we cannot live so as to be happy, let us least live so as to deserve it." - Immanuel Hermann Fichte (1797-1879) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2' http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 17:39:30 2004 Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:39:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Leon Begeman Subject: Re: insurance loss rates for motorcycles? To: Lurking , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Lurking wrote: > I've been thinking about purchasing a new > motorcycle and I called around to 3 insurance > companies to get rate quotes on some of the > bikes I'm considering. The premiums were awfully > high (most over $3,000 per year) for full > coverage. Why would anyone get full coverage insurance on a bike? That just sounds like a really dumb idea to me. Given the premium costs, it appears that the insurance companies think it's a really dumb idea as well. If you're going to ride, put your own money on the line. If you wreck the bike, dig into your pocket and fix it. If your argument is that the finance company requires full coverage, then ask about deductables. I suspect they'll charge significantly less for a full coverage policy with a $2000 deductable than one where they get to pay for everything . . . and why would anyone finance a toy anyway? Leon. cheap guy. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2' http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 17:46:11 2004 Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:45:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Lurking Subject: Re: insurance loss rates for motorcycles? To: Leon Begeman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Yep, I agree with you Leon. In fact, that's another reason why I'm waiting until the winter to buy my bike. I hope to have enough cash on hand then to buy it without a loan from the bank. I'm still on the fence on whether to go new or used. The reason I was getting quotes on full coverage (and yes, I did ask for quotes for varying levels of deductibles) was to see how much I'd have to shell out if I did get a loan. Liens require full coverage as I'm sure you know... Good thoughts though, I value your opinion as I do almost all of my fellow DC-cycles.org members. -Kipp. --- Leon Begeman wrote: > --- Lurking wrote: > > I've been thinking about purchasing a new > > motorcycle and I called around to 3 insurance > > companies to get rate quotes on some of the > > bikes I'm considering. The premiums were awfully > > high (most over $3,000 per year) for full > > coverage. > > Why would anyone get full coverage insurance on a > bike? That just sounds like a really dumb idea to me. > Given the premium costs, it appears that the > insurance companies think it's a really dumb idea as > well. > > If you're going to ride, put your own money on the > line. If you wreck the bike, dig into your pocket and > fix it. If your argument is that the finance company > requires full coverage, then ask about deductables. I > suspect they'll charge significantly less for a full > coverage policy with a $2000 deductable than one where > they get to pay for everything . . . and why would > anyone finance a toy anyway? > > Leon. > cheap guy. > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2' > http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861 ===== "If we cannot live so as to be happy, let us least live so as to deserve it." - Immanuel Hermann Fichte (1797-1879) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2' http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 17:53:07 2004 Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 17:52:58 -0400 To: From: Aki Damme Subject: Looking for a used Gixxer Have a friend that looking for used Gixxer. Did not specify year/size/color. If you know someone who's interested in selling, please forward info to me and I'll get it over to him. tks, -aki From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 17:59:45 2004 Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 14:59:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: RE: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- "Verde, Robert" wrote: > My only real point in the earlier interchange was that it's not exactly > a valid comparison, as we're not talking bikes that can carry four > people... Ignoring the issue of how many vehicles on the road today are > single-driver vehicles, if you compare the number of motorcycles that > would be needed to carry four people (plus luggage) then each bike would > have to get 80+ MPG to compare to the Prius. Oh Oh, I know this one. "But how often are you actually carrying 4 people plus luggage around?" Basically on the quote regarding SUV's. A comment I saw somewhere regarding not driving an SUV everywhere just because you need it for the occasional snow. I mean, you don't wear snowshoes every day just because they're great in the snow? So I'll continue to drive my bikes around for most of my errands and we'll use the Suburu for grocery runs or other trips and rides in the snow and we'll attach the trailer when a large load is required (like lumber for wood projects). Hey, we're covered here and I don't have to drive a $45 per tank SUV all the time (gas here is $2.11 per gallon for premium and watch out for the scams; one station advertised $1.99 per gallon only to discover the octane was 90 instead of the $2.11 92 octane). > > Robert Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2' http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 18:01:38 2004 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: Re: insurance loss rates for motorcycles? Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 18:01:32 -0400 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec7995440e99e534a28a4430fb369f539aee350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c > Hello again, > > Your friendly neighborhood lurker here again. I've been thinking about purchasing a new > motorcycle and I called around to 3 insurance companies to get rate quotes on some of the > bikes I'm considering. The premiums were awfully high (most over $3,000 per year) for full > coverage. I don't have a perfect record, but it's not terrible either. I'm 25 and have > one ticket, one auto collision claim, and one comprehensive auto claim in the past 3 years. > Anyway, I'm not going to ask about how to get a lower rate because I know by this time > next year the two insurance claims will drop off my "3 year record" and the rates will be > much more reasonable (which is why I'm probably going to wait until this winter to buy my > new bike). [Dave] If you're limiting your search to new models, there's part of the reason. Also, if you're looking at sport bikes, ditto. The bigger and badder, the more the premiums. Back in '94 I was quoted $4k full coverage for a new zx11 as the high water mark, 2800 was low... I bought a '90 zx11 and paid $1k full coverage for a year... Then, it dropped progressively... Even a year old bike will be a little cheaper to insure. > > I'm not buying a super-sport even. I'm looking a some naked sportbikes (or sport touring), > such as the Honda 919, Yamaha FZ1/FZ6, and Aprilia Tuono. It seems that insurance > companies rate most sport bikes the same, whether they are true supersports (R1, GSX1000, > Ninja 9R) or more relaxed bikes like the ones I'm considering (not that the ones I'm > considering aren't really powerful and fast). [Dave] Also, don't neglect your credit report. You're not eligible for things like premium policies and good customer discounts if you have blemished credit reports... Not really fair, but perfectly legal... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 18:03:51 2004 Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 15:03:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: RE: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > I'm 6'6", 280 lbs. The extra 4" makes a huge difference. My ex-wife > had a > 1990 Camry sedan. I could drive it, but only if I tipped my head to one > side a bit (that was with the seat all the way back, and leaning way > back...far enough that the shoulder belt wasn't positioned > properly...several inches in front of my shoulder)...if the Prius is > more > cramped than that, it's impossible for me. My 87 300Z was surprisingly good WRT head room. At 6'2" I had lots of leg and head room. Rita's Suburu had some good room in the back seat but the driver's seat can be a little cramped for me. I tried to sit in one of the concept cars (can't think of what it is now; wedge front end with wheels on struts) and couldn't even get my head in the car. There was one on Darbydale. When I saw it at 7/11 I checked the guy and he seemed to be about half a head shorter that me (5'8" or so). > -- Mike B. Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2' http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 18:04:46 2004 Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 18:04:35 -0400 From: Brian Roach To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: insurance loss rates for motorcycles? Leon Begeman wrote: > Why would anyone get full coverage insurance on a > bike? That just sounds like a really dumb idea to me. > Given the premium costs, it appears that the > insurance companies think it's a really dumb idea as > well. Yup. What I've always done though is get liability and fire/theft/vandalism. The one time I had a bike stolen from me, I was VERY happy I had that coverage. It wasn't horribly expensive (nothing approaching what full coverage is). - Roach -- http://www.speedwerks.com The one-stop shop for all your motorcycling needs! (302) 672 - 7223 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 18:07:44 2004 Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 15:07:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: insurance loss rates for motorcycles? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Lurking wrote: > Hello again, > > > What I'm wondering is if anyone knows a source for the "multiplier" that > insurance > companies use for each individual bike model. I could use this to see > which motorcycle > model will have the best and worst effect on insurance premiums and that > would aid my > decision process. We just had to reassociate with a local agent. We're using State Farm. While they put the models in the database, only the engine size dictated the rate, not whether it was a supersport or a cruiser. My Harley has a higher rate that the Suzuki which is a tad higher than Rita's VLX. 1450cc vs 750cc vs 600cc. So it may depend on which insurance you get. > > -Kipp. Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2' http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 20:47:39 2004 Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 20:46:52 -0400 (EDT) From: dan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: insurance loss rates for motorcycles? On Wed, 12 May 2004, Brian Roach wrote: > Yup. What I've always done though is get liability and > fire/theft/vandalism. The one time I had a bike stolen from me, I was > VERY happy I had that coverage. It wasn't horribly expensive (nothing > approaching what full coverage is). > > - Roach I do the same on both bikes and the car that is paid for. I figure if I wreck it, I pay for it. Comprehensive is usually the highest cost for most "sportier" or larger (for state farm) vehicles. If you can get insurance though State Farm, I suggest them, their prices are unbeatable and the service is great too. Dan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 21:20:03 2004 Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 16:14:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 To: mark hermes Hi Mark! Funny we have the same name! That means I can trust you right. WEll, sorry I have not been in touch sooner but I have been doing some research about insurance. I have been in a few accidents so its hard for me to get insurance. You know how that is with a fast bike and the police, right?? Anyway, all I need before sending you the money is the VIN number from the bike. That way I can check on insurance before it gets here. Thanks --- mark hermes wrote: > Ok , > Send me $1600 via westen union. > And give me your name and address for shipping , i > am ready to send you the bike. > This is my western union detalies: > Mark Hermes > 17 central circus > NW4 3AS > London > England > > I am in London with my wife at my broather. > > Best regards > > > Mark Kitchell wrote:Wait I > thought you were visting your brother in > London. Now your wife lives there. This is getting > confusing. > > I still want the bike though. How can I send you the > money? > > Also, will you take $1600? > > > --- Dave Yates wrote: > > My friend's name is Rita, but you can't visit her > > because she > > works and lives on a secure installation. She > rides > > a > > scooter most of the time due to the high petrol > > prices, but > > she's a qualified motorcycle rider so she'll be > able > > to tell > > that it's a good bike. > > > > what's your address? > > > > ---- Original message ---- > > >Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 14:08:56 -0700 (PDT) > > >From: mark hermes > > >Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 > > >To: Dave Yates > > > > > > I will give you my address but he can't come at > > my > > > home because my wife don't accept that , i think > > you > > > understand me. > > > Give me your friend name and address > > > > > > > > > Dave Yates wrote: > > > > > > Not me, Mark Kitchell has 1st dibs on the > > bike. > > > Just let > > > Mark know where my buddy can come to inspect > > the > > > bike. > > > > > > Dave > > > > > > ---- Original message ---- > > > >Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 13:53:29 -0700 (PDT) > > > >From: mark hermes > > > >Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - > > $1800 > > > >To: Dave Yates > > > > > > > > You can send the money at your friend via > > > western > > > > union , in this way i can check at > > westernunion > > > > website . And afther i see that you sent the > > > money i > > > > will send you the bike > > > > > > > > > > > > Dave Yates wrote: > > > > > > > > Hey Mark (Kitchell), > > > > > > > > I've got a mate in London who could probably > > go > > > > and inspect > > > > it for you. And let me know if you're not > > > > interested, I've > > > > got some spare greenbacks laying around > > too... > > > > > > > > Dave Y. > > > > > > > > >--- mark hermes > > > wrote: > > > > >> Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 12:58:08 -0700 > > (PDT) > > > > >> From: mark hermes > > > > > > >> Subject: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 > > > > >> To: Mark Kitchell > > > > > > >> > > > > >> The bike is legal, > > > > >> I am from New Your but now i am at my > > brother > > > > in > > > > >> London and i have the bike here. > > > > >> The bike is legal. Don't worry i will pay > > the > > > > >> shipping > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> Mark Kitchell > > > wrote:Ok, > > > > I > > > > >> am interested but is the bike in th! e > > US? If > > > > it > > > > >> is in England then how is it registered > > in > > > the > > > > US. > > > > >> Its very important to me that it is a > > legal > > > > bike in > > > > >>! ; the US. > > > > >> > > > > >> Who pays the shipping fee? How much is > > that? > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> --- mark hermes wrote: > > > > >> > Yes the price is 1800$. > > > > >> > I am from London and I sell this bike > > > because > > > > is > > > > >> > registered in US > > > > >> > I can send you the bike via DHL and if > > you > > > > are > > > > >> > interested I will pay all shipping > > taxes. > > > > >> > Tell me if you are realy interested to > > > start > > > > the > > > > >> > deal with me, > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Mark Kitchell wrote: > > > > >> > Hi, is price correct? It seems very > > low. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Thanks > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > __________________________________ > > > > >> > Do you Yahoo!? > > > > >> > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! > > > > HotJobs > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > > > > >> > > > > > >> > --------------------------------- > > > > >> > Do you Yahoo!? > > > > >> > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! > > > > HotJobs > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> __________________________________ > > > > >> Do you Yahoo!? > > > > >> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! > > > HotJobs > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> --------------------------------- > > > > >> Do you Yahoo!? > > > > >> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! > > > HotJobs > > > > > > === message truncated === __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2' http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 12 23:42:57 2004 Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 23:44:12 -0400 To: "Verde, Robert" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG At 05:27 PM 5/12/04 -0400, Verde, Robert wrote: >I like this one: http://www.unixpapa.com/cars.html ;-) > >Even by these humourous standards, Mike, you would qualify, so don't worry, no one is attacking your desire to drive a Jeep. Don't think I do by that guy's standards. Tough. As for no one attacking, you may not be, but it comes up all the time, and I've had enough of it. On TV, on the radio, in print, on the net...there's always some imagination-deprived, self-important, PC-Liberal around with their bigoted opinions about nobody needing SUVs, and that everyone should buy and drive a sub-compact, or better yet, ride public transit or a pedal bike...mostly for the reasons your page creator gives. So what's he going to do when he buys his wagon, and some guy with a two-seat sports car says all the same things about his choice? That it's too tall to see past, too heavy to handle well, too deadly in a crash, etc.? Probably the same thing I say to those who hate SUVs: blow it out the orifice of your choice. > I was referring to the reasons people give in response to the question; "Why did you decide to buy [Product x]?" as "justification. If you prefer another word with equivalent connotation and denotation, please suggest one. "Reasons" might do it. "Decision factors" would work too. >I recommend the following for your reading enjoyment; >http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1586481231/p11-20/ref%3Dnosim/103-79 44493-7283841 >Or; http://www.drivers.com/article/621/ Not going to read the book, but the web page has some facts right...but they mostly boil down to "some people can't drive". This is true no matter what you put them in, so I'm not sure why it's relevant to SUVs in particular? A full-sized VAN or Pickup would have most of the same problems, some worse, some not as bad. As for what he says about handling, wind gusts, etc., I had worse with my '67 VW bug. My Jeep accelerates better, stops better, handles wind gusts better, has better wet road, snowy road and dry road traction, carries more people and/or cargo, and gets *almost* the same highway gas mileage (VW could hit 25 highway, the Jeep gets about 19-20 highway). Don't know if he's actually measured tire patch sizes, but 4 wheels totalling about the same as a sheet of stationary is a bit low. Each of my tires is at least 3/4 of a sheet all by itself. >But, I'll take your comments in the politest possible interpretation, and withdraw the [SUV] portion of my previous side-bar question, replacing it with [mini-van] as an equivalent people-carrier. Better now? Yep! Sounds reasonable to me now! Those soccer moms should all be restricted to tennis shoes... ;-) >I think the potential survey would still make interesting reading. ;-] Ok. Aren't there web sites where you can run surveys? It won't be a scientifically valid sample, but it might be fun for you anyway. Something like this one maybe: http://www.webenalysis.com/onlinepolls.asp -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 00:50:02 2004 Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 00:49:39 -0400 From: Brian Roach To: Mike Bartman CC: DC Cycles Subject: Re: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG Mike Bartman wrote: > Toyota's pickups? No head room, no leg room, no way to move the seat back > any farther. I actually find that my Tundra has a TON of room. I do have the extended cab though, which obviously allows the seat to go back farther. I'm just shy of 6' tall, and have headroom problems in a lot of vehicles. My wife's Mustang GT, for example ... I have to take the "gangsta" position to drive the thing, with the seat reclined to where I'm looking at the B pillar if I turn my head 90 degrees. Oh ... and if I didn't actually need a truck on a near daily basis ... I don't think I'd own one, at least not a full-size with a big V8. 15 city (on a good day) / 17 hwy is a bit much to take these days. - Roach -- http://www.speedwerks.com The one-stop shop for all your motorcycling needs! (302) 672 - 7223 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 01:49:48 2004 Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 01:49:40 -0400 From: Skip Smith To: Troutman CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: More on headlights on bikes in VA however... http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+46.2-1030 )B§ 46.2-1030. When lights to be lighted; number of lights to be lighted at any time; use of warning lights. A. Every vehicle in operation on a highway in the Commonwealth shall display lighted headlights and illuminating devices as required by this article (i) from sunset to sunrise, (ii) during any other time when, because of rain, smoke, fog, snow, sleet, insufficient light, or other unfavorable atmospheric conditions, visibility is reduced to a degree whereby persons or vehicles on the highway are not clearly discernible at a distance of 500 feet, and (iii) whenever windshield wipers are in use as a result of fog, rain, sleet, or snow. The provisions of this subsection, however, shall not apply to instances when windshield wipers are used intermittently in misting rain, sleet, or snow. Troutman wrote: > > http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+46.2-912 > > Skip called me on it, so I did a search. Technically, you can ride without > a headlight in VA, but under very specific circumstances : > > )B§ 46.2-912. Operating motorcycle without headlight, horn or rearview mirror. > > A. Notwithstanding any other provision of law, motorcycles may be operated > without headlights, horns, or rearview mirrors on public highways if all > the following conditions are met: > > 1. The motorcycles are designed for use in trail riding and endurance runs; > > 2. The motorcycles are being driven by duly licensed persons; > > 3. The motorcycles are being operated between sunrise and sunset; and > > 4. The motorcycles are being operated during endurance runs sanctioned by > the American Motorcycle Association. > > B. No person shall operate motorcycles without such equipment on the public > highways of the Commonwealth other than at the times and under the > circumstances set forth in this section. > (1970, c. 300, )B§ 46.1-172.01; 1978, c. 605; 1989, c. 727.) > > ___________________________________________ > Mike Troutman > http://www.troutman.org/vfr > 1997 Honda VFR 750 > AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ > NMA http://www.motorists.org > > One who knows the enemy and knows himself > will not be in danger in a hundred battles. > One who does not know the enemy but knows himself > will sometimes win, sometimes lose. > One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself > will be in danger in every battle. > - Sun Tzu From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 08:47:02 2004 Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 05:46:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: insurance loss rates for motorcycles? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Hmm Leon I guess its a good idea to me. I get full coverage on my VFR for about $250, this with the higher liability coverage too. And I don't have a squeaky clean record either. Glenn --- Leon Begeman wrote: > > Why would anyone get full coverage insurance on a > bike? That just sounds like a really dumb idea to > me. > Given the premium costs, it appears that the > insurance companies think it's a really dumb idea as > well. > > If you're going to ride, put your own money on the > line. If you wreck the bike, dig into your pocket > and > fix it. If your argument is that the finance > company > requires full coverage, then ask about deductables. > I > suspect they'll charge significantly less for a full > coverage policy with a $2000 deductable than one > where > they get to pay for everything . . . and why would > anyone finance a toy anyway? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2' http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 09:48:37 2004 Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 09:47:37 -0400 (EDT) From: dan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG On Thu, 13 May 2004, Brian Roach wrote: > Mike Bartman wrote: > > I actually find that my Tundra has a TON of room. I do have the extended > cab though, which obviously allows the seat to go back farther. I'm just > shy of 6' tall, and have headroom problems in a lot of vehicles. My Ditto on the Tundra, I'm 6'3" and can strech my legs out straight if I need to. The back seats on the other hand.... > wife's Mustang GT, for example ... I have to take the "gangsta" position > to drive the thing, with the seat reclined to where I'm looking at the B > pillar if I turn my head 90 degrees. > Yeah, Mustang's suck for legroom. Most cars do. I used to have an Impala SS, should have never sold that, that had all the room I ever needed. > Oh ... and if I didn't actually need a truck on a near daily basis ... I > don't think I'd own one, at least not a full-size with a big V8. 15 city > (on a good day) / 17 hwy is a bit much to take these days. I'm getting about 17 or 18 in mixed in mine. That's with frequent sprints up to the speed limit. Man does that DOHC V8 sound good :-) 17 for a pickup truck is pretty good from what i have seen. I can't be happier with mine. Dan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 09:51:37 2004 Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 09:51:07 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: Glenn Dysart , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: insurance loss rates for motorcycles? -----Original Message----- From: Glenn Dysart Hmm Leon I guess its a good idea to me. I get full coverage on my VFR for about $250, this with the higher liability coverage too. And I don't have a squeaky clean record either. Glenn --- Leon Begeman wrote: > > Why would anyone get full coverage insurance on a > bike? That just sounds like a really dumb idea to > me. > Given the premium costs, it appears that the > insurance companies think it's a really dumb idea as > well. > ... I'm with Glenn on this one. Collision is a minor cost on my policy, esp. with a high deductible. Comp (esp. in DC) is a big line item. This way I have some recourse for the bike--and the not insignificant cost of accessories--should I wad it. I suppose in a year or two, the bike will be of a monetary value where self-insurance makes sense. KLR on the other hand is liability only. Motorcyclists should take a good look at their liability coverages. $300K is a good place to start. How much damage can a bike do, you say. State minimums are laughably insufficient for all but the most minor crashes. Causing a crash that sends another driver to the hospital and totals a car can go through a state-mandated minimum in a heartbeat. If you don't believe me, read this.... http://www.dd.org/~tale/bikewreck/insurance.html Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 09:53:45 2004 Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 09:52:45 -0400 (EDT) From: dan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Tour Buses on the Toll Road/Greenway Has anyone else noticed the increase in tour buses on the toll road? These asshats hog the hell out of the left lane, will not move over for anything, then when it gets into the twistier part (haha) with the 55mph marked turns start drifting into other lanes @75mph. Its happened quite a few times now, I'm sending an email to VSP to see what they can do. Dan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 09:56:23 2004 Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 04:38:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 To: DC Cycles Vin # after the bike? No come on! --- mark hermes wrote: > Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 03:42:09 -0700 (PDT) > From: mark hermes > Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 > To: Mark Kitchell > > Ok, > i will send you the bike > give me your name and address for shipping > i will give you the vin# afther you will send the > money > > best regards > > > > > Mark Kitchell wrote:Hi > Mark! > > Funny we have the same name! That means I can trust > you right. WEll, sorry I have not been in touch > sooner but I have been doing some research about > insurance. I have been in a few accidents so its > hard > for me to get insurance. You know how that is with a > fast bike and the police, right?? > > Anyway, all I need before sending you the money is > the > VIN number from the bike. That way I can check on > insurance before it gets here. > > Thanks > > > --- mark hermes wrote: > > Ok , > > Send me $1600 via westen union. > > And give me your name and address for shipping , i > > am ready to send you the bike. > > This is my western union detalies: > > Mark Hermes > > 17 central circus > > NW4 3AS > > London > > England > > > > I am in London with my wife at my broather. > > > > Best regards > > > > > > Mark Kitchell wrote:Wait I > > thought you were visting your brother in > > London. Now your wife lives there. This is getting > > confusing. > > > > I still want the bike though. How can I send you > the > > money? > > > > Also, will you take $1600? > > > > > > --- Dave Yates wrote: > > > My friend's name is Rita, but you can't visit > her > > > because she > > > works and lives on a secure installation. She > > rides > > > a > > > scooter most of the time due to the high petrol > > > prices, but > > > she's a qualified motorcycle rider so she'll be > > able > > > to tell > > > that it's a good bike. > > > > > > what's your address? > > > > > > ---- Original message ---- > > > >Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 14:08:56 -0700 (PDT) > > > >From: mark hermes > > > >Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 > > > >To: Dave Yates > > > > > > > > I will give you my address but he can't come > at > > > my > > > > home because my wife don't accept that , i > think > > > you > > > > understand me. > > > > Give me your friend name and address > > > > > > > > > > > > Dave Yates wrote: > > > > > > > > Not me, Mark Kitchell has 1st dibs on the > > > bike. > > > > Just let > > > > Mark know where my buddy can come to inspect > > > the > > > > bike. > > > > > > > > Dave > > > > > > > > ---- Original message ---- > > > > >Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 13:53:29 -0700 (PDT) > > > > >From: mark hermes > > > > >Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - > > > $1800 > > > > >To: Dave Yates > > > > > > > > > > You can send the money at your friend via > > > > western > > > > > union , in this way i can check at > > > westernunion > > > > > website . And afther i see that you sent the > > > > money i > > > > > will send you the bike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dave Yates wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hey Mark (Kitchell), > > > > > > > > > > I've got a mate in London who could probably > > > go > > > > > and inspect > > > > > it for you. And let me know if you're not > > > > > interested, I've > > > > > got some spare greenbacks laying around > > > too... > > > > > > > > > > Dave Y. > > > > > > > > > > >--- mark hermes > > > > wrote: > > > > > >> Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 12:58:08 -0700 > > > (PDT) > > > > > >> From: mark hermes > > > > > > > > >> Subject: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 > > > > > >> To: Mark Kitchell > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> The bike is legal, > > > > > >> I am from New Your but now i am at my > > > brother > > > > > in > > > > > >> London and i have the bike here. > > > > > >> The bike is legal. Don't worry i will pay > > > the > > > > > >> shipping > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Mark Kitchell > > > > wrote:Ok, > > > > > I > > > > > >> am interested but is the bike in th! e > > > US? If > > > > > it > > > > > >> is in England then how is it registered > > > in > > > > the > > > > > US. > > > > > >> Its very important to me that it is a > > > legal > > > > > bike in > > > > > >>! ; the US. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Who pays the shipping fee? How much is > > > that? > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> --- mark hermes wrote: > > > > > >> > Yes the price is 1800$. > > > > > >> > I am from London and I sell this bike > > > > because > > > > > is > > > > > >> > registered in US > > > > > >> > I can send you the bike via DHL and if > > > you > > > > > are > > > > > >> > interested I will pay all shipping > > > taxes. > > > > > >> > Tell me if you are realy interested to > > > > start > > > > > the > > > > > >> > deal with me, > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Mark Kitchell wrote: > > > > > >> > Hi, is price correct? It seems very > > > low. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Thanks > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > __________________________________ > > > > > >> > Do you Yahoo!? > > > > > >> > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! > > > > > HotJobs > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > --------------------------------- > > > > > >> > Do you Yahoo!? > > > > > >> > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! > > > > > HotJobs > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> __________________________________ > > > > > >> Do you Yahoo!? > > > > > >> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! > > > > HotJobs > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> --------------------------------- > > > > > >> Do you Yahoo!? > > > > > >> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! > > > > HotJobs > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2' > http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861 > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2' __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2' http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 10:09:41 2004 Subject: RE: Tour Buses on the Toll Road/Greenway Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:09:29 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "dan" , I've dodged the land leviathans a few times, usually just at the merge from I-66 onto the toll road approach. The only positive aspect is you can sure spot them from a mile away, and I make my lane choices accordingly. The close calls I have had in their vicinity come from exasperated cage drivers swerving between lanes without signalling, gotta watch for that. Did anyone spot the heavy LEO presence this morning on the East-bound toll road (technically non-toll, I guess) between 495 and I-66? Four cruisers had cars pulled over in a single stretch no longer than 1500 feet, almost looked like a sting operation for HOV violators. Robert -----Original Message----- From: dan [mailto:dan@XXXXXX] Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 9:53 AM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Tour Buses on the Toll Road/Greenway Has anyone else noticed the increase in tour buses on the toll road? These asshats hog the hell out of the left lane, will not move over for anything, then when it gets into the twistier part (haha) with the 55mph marked turns start drifting into other lanes @75mph. Its happened quite a few times now, I'm sending an email to VSP to see what they can do. Dan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 10:14:23 2004 From: "Wesleyan Hsu" To: Subject: RE: Tour Buses on the Toll Road/Greenway Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:14:13 -0400 Are you sure they're not commuter buses? I've had to ride the Loudoun Commuter buses (which seem to be contracted tour buses) to and from DC for the past week. There's about 16 buses that run during rush hour. In the morning, they do stay in the left lane, since it's HOV and then they hop onto the airport lane at their first opportunity. I don't know how long this service has been running, but maybe these are many of the busses that you are referring to. If you're seeing lane drifting a lot, I'm sure the powers that be would like to know about it. I doubt anyone you talk to there will agree with you that the buses should move out of the HOV lane though. Wes Hsu > -----Original Message----- > From: dan [mailto:dan@XXXXXX] > Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 9:53 AM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Tour Buses on the Toll Road/Greenway > > Has anyone else noticed the increase in tour buses on the toll road? > These asshats hog the hell out of the left lane, will not > move over for anything, then when it gets into the twistier > part (haha) with the 55mph marked turns start drifting into > other lanes @75mph. Its happened quite a few times now, I'm > sending an email to VSP to see what they can do. > > Dan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 10:16:24 2004 From: "Sean Steele" To: "DC Cycles" Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:16:05 -0400 Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 Time to report this guy to ebay mebbe? -Sean Mark Kitchell wrote: > Vin # after the bike? > > No come on! > > > --- mark hermes wrote: > >>Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 03:42:09 -0700 (PDT) >>From: mark hermes >>Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 >>To: Mark Kitchell >> >>Ok, >>i will send you the bike >>give me your name and address for shipping >>i will give you the vin# afther you will send the >>money >> >>best regards >> >> >> >> >>Mark Kitchell wrote:Hi >>Mark! >> >>Funny we have the same name! That means I can trust >>you right. WEll, sorry I have not been in touch >>sooner but I have been doing some research about >>insurance. I have been in a few accidents so its >>hard >>for me to get insurance. You know how that is with a >>fast bike and the police, right?? >> >>Anyway, all I need before sending you the money is >>the >>VIN number from the bike. That way I can check on >>insurance before it gets here. >> >>Thanks >> >> >>--- mark hermes wrote: >> >>>Ok , >>>Send me $1600 via westen union. >>>And give me your name and address for shipping , i >>>am ready to send you the bike. >>>This is my western union detalies: >>>Mark Hermes >>>17 central circus >>>NW4 3AS >>>London >>>England From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 10:21:15 2004 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Tour Buses on the Toll Road/Greenway Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:21:07 -0400 I had 3 tour buses in a row goin over the Rosevelt bridge, def not the commuters. Back when I lived farther out, state troopers were doing HOV almost every morning inbetween the Toll Road & 66. God bless them. >From: "Wesleyan Hsu" >To: >Subject: RE: Tour Buses on the Toll Road/Greenway >Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:14:13 -0400 > >Are you sure they're not commuter buses? I've had to ride the Loudoun >Commuter buses (which seem to be contracted tour buses) to and from DC for >the past week. There's about 16 buses that run during rush hour. In the >morning, they do stay in the left lane, since it's HOV and then they hop >onto the airport lane at their first opportunity. I don't know how long >this >service has been running, but maybe these are many of the busses that you >are referring to. If you're seeing lane drifting a lot, I'm sure the powers >that be would like to know about it. I doubt anyone you talk to there will >agree with you that the buses should move out of the HOV lane though. > >Wes Hsu > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: dan [mailto:dan@XXXXXX] > > Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 9:53 AM > > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > Subject: Tour Buses on the Toll Road/Greenway > > > > Has anyone else noticed the increase in tour buses on the toll road? > > These asshats hog the hell out of the left lane, will not > > move over for anything, then when it gets into the twistier > > part (haha) with the 55mph marked turns start drifting into > > other lanes @75mph. Its happened quite a few times now, I'm > > sending an email to VSP to see what they can do. > > > > Dan > > _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee)B® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 10:24:13 2004 Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:24:01 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 X-AOL-IP: 65.86.98.162 Hmmmm....this is getting good. You think you can keep f'ing with him a few more days? ;-) Have you involved any authorities yet to track this guy down? Afterall, you've got an address. :-) Who knows if it's really his or not but, it's a place to start. I can't believe this guy honestly thinks you believe he is from New York with such horrible language skills and really want the bike. Scooter In a message dated 5/13/2004 7:38:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time, markkitchell@XXXXXX writes: > > > Vin # after the bike? > > No come on! > > > --- mark hermes wrote: > > Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 03:42:09 -0700 (PDT) > > From: mark hermes > > Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 > > To: Mark Kitchell > > > > Ok, > > i will send you the bike > > give me your name and address for shipping > > i will give you the vin# afther you will send the > > money > > > > best regards > > > > > > > > > > Mark Kitchell wrote:Hi > > Mark! > > > > Funny we have the same name! That means I can trust > > you right. WEll, sorry I have not been in touch > > sooner but I have been doing some research about > > insurance. I have been in a few accidents so its > > hard > > for me to get insurance. You know how that is with a > > fast bike and the police, right?? > > > > Anyway, all I need before sending you the money is > > the > > VIN number from the bike. That way I can check on > > insurance before it gets here. > > > > Thanks From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 10:39:50 2004 Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 07:39:12 -0700 (PDT) From: matthew patton Subject: Re: insurance loss rates for motorcycles? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Leon Begeman wrote: > Why would anyone get full coverage insurance on a > bike? That just sounds like a really dumb idea to me. I've debated this with myself a couple of times. Like you I ride 350+ days a year and now get to try that in Chicago weather. Full coverage is something hideous like $600/yr. I need to find a new company. But anyway liability only is $300/yr and I don't remember if I can even get loss/comprehensive protection if I don't carry collision. I figure the most likely scenario is that I won't ever have to make a claim. Next up, somebody will hit me despite my orange vest and reflecto striping. Least probable would be me tossing it away on my own. But I don't have any money in the bank to cover the repairs. I'll probably end up insurance shopping again around July and see what to do about riding in chicago winters. > cheap guy. Matt. Not quite EX250 cheap. ===== "If you believe what you like in the Gospels, and reject what you do not like, it is not the Gospel you believe, but yourself." -- Augustine of Hippo (AD 354-430) * A successful marriage isn't finding the right person; it's being the right person. * Liberalism always generates the exact opposite of its stated intent. -- Jim Quinn (www.warroom.com) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 10:47:35 2004 Subject: RE: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:47:26 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: , http://www.met.police.uk/crimeprevention/vehicle.htm http://www.crimestoppers-uk.org/ Some links for UK law enforcement, might be fun to report this scam artiste... Other people having fun with scammers: http://forum.motorcycle-usa.com/?f=17&m=70300&g=70309 http://www.biggest-auction-site.com/ebay-motorcycle-scam.php It should be possible to forward this correspondence to somebody official, have them check out the address, see if it's even a real place. Have you Mapquested it? Robert -----Original Message----- From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX [mailto:ScooterFZR@XXXXXX] Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 10:24 AM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 Hmmmm....this is getting good. You think you can keep f'ing with him a few more days? ;-) Have you involved any authorities yet to track this guy down? Afterall, you've got an address. :-) Who knows if it's really his or not but, it's a place to start. I can't believe this guy honestly thinks you believe he is from New York with such horrible language skills and really want the bike. Scooter In a message dated 5/13/2004 7:38:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time, markkitchell@XXXXXX writes: > > > Vin # after the bike? > > No come on! > > > --- mark hermes wrote: > > Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 03:42:09 -0700 (PDT) > > From: mark hermes > > Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 > > To: Mark Kitchell > > > > Ok, > > i will send you the bike > > give me your name and address for shipping > > i will give you the vin# afther you will send the > > money > > > > best regards > > > > > > > > > > Mark Kitchell wrote:Hi > > Mark! > > > > Funny we have the same name! That means I can trust > > you right. WEll, sorry I have not been in touch > > sooner but I have been doing some research about > > insurance. I have been in a few accidents so its > > hard > > for me to get insurance. You know how that is with a > > fast bike and the police, right?? > > > > Anyway, all I need before sending you the money is > > the > > VIN number from the bike. That way I can check on > > insurance before it gets here. > > > > Thanks From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 10:51:57 2004 Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:51:36 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 How about telling him you went to WU and they said they couldn't deliver to that address - ask if he has another, and a phone number too ;-) Also, a couple google searches show that addr to be an Italian restaurant, "L'Artista" or "La Dolce Vita" in London. On Thu, 13 May 2004, Mark Kitchell wrote: > Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 04:38:57 -0700 (PDT) > From: Mark Kitchell > To: DC Cycles > Subject: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 > > Vin # after the bike? > > No come on! > > > --- mark hermes wrote: > > Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 03:42:09 -0700 (PDT) > > From: mark hermes > > Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 > > To: Mark Kitchell > > > > Ok, > > i will send you the bike > > give me your name and address for shipping > > i will give you the vin# afther you will send the > > money > > > > best regards > > > > > > > > > > Mark Kitchell wrote:Hi > > Mark! > > > > Funny we have the same name! That means I can trust > > you right. WEll, sorry I have not been in touch > > sooner but I have been doing some research about > > insurance. I have been in a few accidents so its > > hard > > for me to get insurance. You know how that is with a > > fast bike and the police, right?? > > > > Anyway, all I need before sending you the money is > > the > > VIN number from the bike. That way I can check on > > insurance before it gets here. > > > > Thanks > > > > > > --- mark hermes wrote: > > > Ok , > > > Send me $1600 via westen union. > > > And give me your name and address for shipping , i > > > am ready to send you the bike. > > > This is my western union detalies: > > > Mark Hermes > > > 17 central circus > > > NW4 3AS > > > London > > > England > > > > > > I am in London with my wife at my broather. > > > > > > Best regards > > > > > > > > > Mark Kitchell wrote:Wait I > > > thought you were visting your brother in > > > London. Now your wife lives there. This is getting > > > confusing. > > > > > > I still want the bike though. How can I send you > > the > > > money? > > > > > > Also, will you take $1600? > > > > > > > > > --- Dave Yates wrote: > > > > My friend's name is Rita, but you can't visit > > her > > > > because she > > > > works and lives on a secure installation. She > > > rides > > > > a > > > > scooter most of the time due to the high petrol > > > > prices, but > > > > she's a qualified motorcycle rider so she'll be > > > able > > > > to tell > > > > that it's a good bike. > > > > > > > > what's your address? > > > > > > > > ---- Original message ---- > > > > >Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 14:08:56 -0700 (PDT) > > > > >From: mark hermes > > > > >Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 > > > > >To: Dave Yates > > > > > > > > > > I will give you my address but he can't come > > at > > > > my > > > > > home because my wife don't accept that , i > > think > > > > you > > > > > understand me. > > > > > Give me your friend name and address > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dave Yates wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Not me, Mark Kitchell has 1st dibs on the > > > > bike. > > > > > Just let > > > > > Mark know where my buddy can come to inspect > > > > the > > > > > bike. > > > > > > > > > > Dave > > > > > > > > > > ---- Original message ---- > > > > > >Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 13:53:29 -0700 (PDT) > > > > > >From: mark hermes > > > > > >Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - > > > > $1800 > > > > > >To: Dave Yates > > > > > > > > > > > > You can send the money at your friend via > > > > > western > > > > > > union , in this way i can check at > > > > westernunion > > > > > > website . And afther i see that you sent the > > > > > money i > > > > > > will send you the bike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dave Yates wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hey Mark (Kitchell), > > > > > > > > > > > > I've got a mate in London who could probably > > > > go > > > > > > and inspect > > > > > > it for you. And let me know if you're not > > > > > > interested, I've > > > > > > got some spare greenbacks laying around > > > > too... > > > > > > > > > > > > Dave Y. > > > > > > > > > > > > >--- mark hermes > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > >> Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 12:58:08 -0700 > > > > (PDT) > > > > > > >> From: mark hermes > > > > > > > > > > >> Subject: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 > > > > > > >> To: Mark Kitchell > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> The bike is legal, > > > > > > >> I am from New Your but now i am at my > > > > brother > > > > > > in > > > > > > >> London and i have the bike here. > > > > > > >> The bike is legal. Don't worry i will pay > > > > the > > > > > > >> shipping > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> Mark Kitchell > > > > > wrote:Ok, > > > > > > I > > > > > > >> am interested but is the bike in th! e > > > > US? If > > > > > > it > > > > > > >> is in England then how is it registered > > > > in > > > > > the > > > > > > US. > > > > > > >> Its very important to me that it is a > > > > legal > > > > > > bike in > > > > > > >>! ; the US. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> Who pays the shipping fee? How much is > > > > that? > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> --- mark hermes wrote: > > > > > > >> > Yes the price is 1800$. > > > > > > >> > I am from London and I sell this bike > > > > > because > > > > > > is > > > > > > >> > registered in US > > > > > > >> > I can send you the bike via DHL and if > > > > you > > > > > > are > > > > > > >> > interested I will pay all shipping > > > > taxes. > > > > > > >> > Tell me if you are realy interested to > > > > > start > > > > > > the > > > > > > >> > deal with me, > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > Mark Kitchell wrote: > > > > > > >> > Hi, is price correct? It seems very > > > > low. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > Thanks > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > __________________________________ > > > > > > >> > Do you Yahoo!? > > > > > > >> > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! > > > > > > HotJobs > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > --------------------------------- > > > > > > >> > Do you Yahoo!? > > > > > > >> > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! > > > > > > HotJobs > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> __________________________________ > > > > > > >> Do you Yahoo!? > > > > > > >> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! > > > > > HotJobs > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> --------------------------------- > > > > > > >> Do you Yahoo!? > > > > > > >> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! > > > > > HotJobs > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2' > > > http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861 > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2' > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2' > http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861 > > -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 10:54:48 2004 Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 07:54:38 -0700 (PDT) From: matthew patton Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > more children are injured or killed playing highschool football than > are injured > or killed by handguns. or if Chicago's blithering media is to be believed, soccer results in tragic deaths and should be banned. or something. I think my son will ride dirt bikes, thanks. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 10:54:49 2004 Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:50:06 -0400 To: Brian Roach From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG Cc: DC Cycles At 12:49 AM 5/13/04 -0400, Brian Roach wrote: >Mike Bartman wrote: > >> Toyota's pickups? No head room, no leg room, no way to move the seat back >> any farther. > >I actually find that my Tundra has a TON of room. Tried them. Too small to drive. >I do have the extended >cab though, which obviously allows the seat to go back farther. I'm just >shy of 6' tall, and have headroom problems in a lot of vehicles. 6'? Ok, as I said, most current vehicles will fit short people... :-) >My >wife's Mustang GT, for example ... I have to take the "gangsta" position >to drive the thing, with the seat reclined to where I'm looking at the B >pillar if I turn my head 90 degrees. That's not a normal driving position? Been that way in almost every vehicle I've ever driven that had a rear window... >Oh ... and if I didn't actually need a truck on a near daily basis ... I >don't think I'd own one, at least not a full-size with a big V8. 15 city >(on a good day) / 17 hwy is a bit much to take these days. If you have to drive it much, I'd agree. I'm kinda hoping that by the time I need to replace the Jeep, they'll have the Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles, or at least hydrogen conversion kits for internal combustion engine vehicles, available. The technology was developed over 15 years ago, and it worked. Set up a hydrogen production system in your garage (the one 15 years or more ago was about the size of a washer-dryer pair), power it with solar cells on the roof, and drive for free. The test vehicle I saw on the TV show was a Ford Granada that had been converted to burn hydrogen (similar to a propane conversion done on lots of farm vehicles). It used a tank with a nickel alloy in it, in granule form. Hydrogen would alloy with it (hydrogen acts as a metal) if you cooled it slightly (cold water), and would come out of alloy if you warmed it (engine coolant circulated around the tank). Tank was about as big as a full-size spare, and held enough H2 to get the car a bit over 100 miles before a refill. For a typical commuter vehicle, this is plenty...as you will be hooking it up to refill it overnight in your garage (D.C. area is not full of typical commuters BTW ;-). Not so good for long trips though...at least not until there are "hydrogen stations" in as many places as you can get diesel. Upsides: o low, or no, emissions...certainly less than with gas. You get a few NOx compounds if you burn the H2 in air in an internal combustion engine...the heat and pressure in the cylinders forms them. There aren't any SOx compounds though, or CO, or the other nasties, and everything produced is handled by current emission control systems. What's left is water. Suicides will have to find another method than running the car in a closed garage... o free fuel if you can make electricity free (solar cells, water wheel, wind generator, etc. o much safer in a crash than gas...a tank like the Granada's was shot with a rifle while sitting next to a lit torch...result? A small blue flame flickering out the hole in the tank. Result with propane? Violent explosion that destroyed the tank and threw it dozens of feet into the air. Result with gasoline? An explosion and a spreading puddle of flaming fuel slowly melting the tank. o less crud in the engine (from fuel with no carbon) should result in longer life and less maintenance. o We can tell OPEC and EXXON to pound sand... Downsides: o several hours to refill the tank unless you replace the granules with saturated ones. o Refills not available on every major street corner...yet. o Mechanics not familiar with the system...yet. o It cost about $10,000 to convert the Granada, and another $10,000 for the electrolysis fuel producer and solar cells (1980-something dollars), but that was for a prototype, production units of the car shouldn't cost any more than a current car does, and the fuel production unit would be much cheaper too. o The coolant circulation to release the fuel in the tank will mean that air cooled engines, like most current Harleys, will be problematic. Water cooled bikes shouldn't have a problem. Fuel tanks will very likely follow the V-Rod model, as the granules are heavy (the Granada's tank was about 200 lbs), and you will want the tank as low down as you can get it. The above assumes that a better technology for storing the H2 won't be figured out. Personally I think it will. Maybe a plastic that does the same thing as the nickel alloy, but with faster uptake? Save weight, speed up refills...technology and science march on... -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 11:12:23 2004 Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:12:07 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, mike@XXXXXX, thomas Jordan From: Sean Jordan Subject: Woah - Bad Motorcycle Accident Pics (No Gore, Work Safe) http://www.eccentricksportbikes.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=233 Yikes!!! - Sean Jordan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 11:12:38 2004 Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:11:53 -0400 (EDT) From: dan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Tour Buses on the Toll Road/Greenway On Thu, 13 May 2004, Wesleyan Hsu wrote: > Are you sure they're not commuter buses? I've had to ride the Loudoun > Commuter buses (which seem to be contracted tour buses) to and from DC for > the past week. There's about 16 buses that run during rush hour. In the > morning, they do stay in the left lane, since it's HOV and then they hop > onto the airport lane at their first opportunity. I don't know how long this > service has been running, but maybe these are many of the busses that you > are referring to. If you're seeing lane drifting a lot, I'm sure the powers > that be would like to know about it. I doubt anyone you talk to there will > agree with you that the buses should move out of the HOV lane though. > > Wes Hsu They could be commuter buses, all I know is they are the regular run of the mill tour bus. HOV use is fine, they are entitled to it. However there is no HOV lane on the Greenway. That's the problem. So is their lane drifting. Straight up, I think they drive like total assholes. I have had little problems with all the other commercial vehicles. Most seem to drive quite respectfully. If anyone wants to shoot an email to the vsp, the fairfax division is : vspdiv7@XXXXXX and they are the ones that are supposed to handle 267. Dan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 11:16:49 2004 From: bernescut@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:16:23 -0400 snip The above assumes that a better technology for storing the H2 won't be figured out. Personally I think it will. Maybe a plastic that does the same thing as the nickel alloy, but with faster uptake? Save weight, speed up refills...technology and science march on... -- Mike B. snip Fascinating post on the hydrogen conversion. I googled it and found this thesis on converting scooters to hydrogen fuel http://www.spinglass.net/scooters/ As well as several people selling the plans on Ebay :) About insurance, I too, recommend State Farm, their prices were the best in the area. They also seem to ignore sport vs sedate and go strictly by engine size; quoting the actual size may help here (my CBR has a 599 cc engine thus falling below the 600 cc limit). You will have to strongly emphasize that you "only" want your bike insured, not your cars. They will tell you this isn't possible, tell them it is. If they still refuse, find another State Farm agent. I live in a nice quiet neighborhood but this is my third bike; my first was totalled in a parking lot incident (hit by an idiot doing the big loop around the speed bump) the second was stolen. I simply couldn't afford to go out and replace all the plastic or get a new bike so the extra coverage is essential to me, maybe not to others. Cedric Bernescut 2000 CBR600F4 Annandale, VA Get your drug-free boost: http://tinyurl.com/zbgs From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 11:17:56 2004 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'DCCycles'" Subject: You bike does better than a hybrid in MPG Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:19:56 -0400 Mike Touted: "I filled up today and had 38MPG on the VFR this week." [Carl]: Awww, "They don't make 'em like they used to." My '80 GS 450E (RIP) got 60-50 mpg. My '83 'Ceptor regularly gets 45 MPG (Sigma mileage, not Honda); 50 mpg tooling around SE Ohio. My '85 Sabre (700 cc) gets 40-45 mpg pushing a barn door windshield; 50 mpg nekkid. How much the fun grip is twisted also affects the mileage. Aerodynamic drag rises with the square of speed. Ergo, if you visit WV (nudge, nudge, wink, wink), drag at 70 MPH is four times that at 35 MPH. [Honda Speculated] "I guess you need combination of weight, friction & aerodynamic to get good mpg. bikes got advantage on weight & friction but not too good on aerodynamic (no roof). If bikes get better aerodynamic then it should get better mpg. regular cars have generally good aerodynamic but sucks on weight & friction. Looks like Honda Insight is good on all these 3 factors, but fat dude won't get any good mpg?" [Carl]: Yup, Eight grade science and high school physics. Good to see someone paid attention :^). Rolling resistance (tires) and friction (engine, drive train, and bearings) are significant, but IIRC, aerodynamic drag is still the major force, especially above 30 mph. So, the big fat dude can pump up the tires and hug the tank (That's what I do). FWIW, The Vetter Quicksilver fairing (RIP) claimed a 10% reduction in drag (& had great side pockets) Carl in Bethesda 70 page digest reduced to 29 pages using macro that snips lines with ">>" Who's vying for the quoting championship? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 12:45:47 2004 Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 06:54:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Bike Night DC: May 23rd 2004 To: VFR , DC Cycles Cc: Charles Pena MC Productions (Mark and Chuck) are pleased to annouce the first Bike Night for 2004. May 23, 2004 Carpool Bar and Grill, Clarendon, VA (4000 Fairfax Drive) 4PM-8PM Reserved Parking in the Front Lot All Makes and Models welcome BBQ by Rocklands http://www.geocities.com/bikenight/ __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2' http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 13:03:21 2004 Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:03:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Bike Night DC: May 23rd 2004 X-Virus-Checked: Checked On Thu, 13 May 2004, Mark Kitchell wrote: > MC Productions (Mark and Chuck) are pleased to annouce the first Bike > Night for 2004. Ah, hell, you would be doing this just as I'm heading down to Bragg for a couple of weeks. Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 13:15:52 2004 Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 07:22:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 To: Sean Steele , DC Cycles Not an ebay auction --- Sean Steele wrote: > Time to report this guy to ebay mebbe? > -Sean > > Mark Kitchell wrote: > > > Vin # after the bike? > > > > No come on! > > > > > > --- mark hermes wrote: > > > >>Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 03:42:09 -0700 (PDT) > >>From: mark hermes > >>Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 > >>To: Mark Kitchell > >> > >>Ok, > >>i will send you the bike > >>give me your name and address for shipping > >>i will give you the vin# afther you will send the > >>money > >> > >>best regards > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>Mark Kitchell wrote:Hi > >>Mark! > >> > >>Funny we have the same name! That means I can > trust > >>you right. WEll, sorry I have not been in touch > >>sooner but I have been doing some research about > >>insurance. I have been in a few accidents so its > >>hard > >>for me to get insurance. You know how that is with > a > >>fast bike and the police, right?? > >> > >>Anyway, all I need before sending you the money is > >>the > >>VIN number from the bike. That way I can check on > >>insurance before it gets here. > >> > >>Thanks > >> > >> > >>--- mark hermes wrote: > >> > >>>Ok , > >>>Send me $1600 via westen union. > >>>And give me your name and address for shipping , > i > >>>am ready to send you the bike. > >>>This is my western union detalies: > >>>Mark Hermes > >>>17 central circus > >>>NW4 3AS > >>>London > >>>England > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2' http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 13:44:56 2004 Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 13:45:10 -0400 To: Mark Kitchell , VFR , DC Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Bike Night DC: May 23rd 2004 Cc: Charles Pena At 06:54 AM 5/13/04 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote: >MC Productions (Mark and Chuck) are pleased to annouce >the first Bike Night for 2004. > >May 23, 2004 Sorry, same day as the Cruz'n For Cancer ride...if that event is over in time, maybe, otherwise, have fun! -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 14:07:00 2004 Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 14:07:41 -0400 To: Mark Kitchell , VFR , DC Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Bike Night DC: May 23rd 2004 Cc: Charles Pena At 06:54 AM 5/13/04 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote: >MC Productions (Mark and Chuck) are pleased to annouce >the first Bike Night for 2004. > >May 23, 2004 >Carpool Bar and Grill, Clarendon, VA (4000 Fairfax It's also the same day as the Shooter Dave Memorial Bike Show at Hooters of Rockville, sponsored by ABATE of Maryland, Inc., Montgomery County Chapter. Weekends are getting crowded now that it's warm out... -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 16:06:29 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 16:06:18 EDT Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 5/11/2004 10:23:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, omni@XXXXXX writes: > You wrapped a strip of > cloth around each handlebar, and if you could ride up next to someone, and > grab their cloth off, they were "shot down" My version was to reach over and shut off the other bikes kill* switch. But we did wear helmets...... *(engine cut off switch) John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 16:16:17 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 16:16:07 EDT Subject: Re: HDI EFI To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 5/11/2004 11:24:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, omni@XXXXXX writes: > there's a CPU running equations > or something, so that no matter how much you change the air flow into the > engine, it will always match it up with the proper amount of fuel, spark at > the right time, etc.. That should be the case. > If that's the case, why do you need to change the > "download" when you swap the air cleaner for one that flows better? I expect to override the super lean condition caused by compliance with the EPA. Resulting in more power so the air filter company can take credit. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 16:21:09 2004 Subject: Honda news? Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 16:21:00 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "DC Cycles" Not reading as many industry mags as I should, I was wondering if anyone had heard of any future plans for Honda's CBR1100XX? The reviews of the CBR1000 I've read indicate that it's the neatest thing since sliced bagels, but I was curious if Honda is planning a new model of the Blackbird to launch an attack on the top-end records held by 'Busas and ZX-12's? Robert From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 16:29:45 2004 From: "W.S." To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: insurance loss rates for motorcycles? Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 16:29:30 -0400 Brian Roach roach@XXXXXX scribed: Leon Begeman wrote: > Why would anyone get full coverage insurance on a > bike? That just sounds like a really dumb idea to me. > Given the premium costs, it appears that the > insurance companies think it's a really dumb idea as > well. Yup. What I've always done though is get liability and fire/theft/vandalism. The one time I had a bike stolen from me, I was VERY happy I had that coverage. It wasn't horribly expensive (nothing approaching what full coverage is). - Roach As an afterthought, one year "uninsured motorists" and "underinsured motorists" made their way on to my policy (very inexpensive). Within 9 mos. "unin." exercised for bike replacement. Bill S. / DC '99 VN750 > Arrived courtesy uninsured clause. Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 16:54:14 2004 Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 16:50:39 -0400 From: Skip To: smart-tag@XXXXXX Subject: Toll Not Paid Hi! It was a beautiful day last week, and I had to go from Herndon to the DEA, by the Pentagon, to see my dad. some paperwork for him had mistakenly been mailed to my house. I could have slogged up the Fairfax County Parkway to 95, but wait, I have a smart Tag. I mentioned it was a beautiful day, right? Cause it really was. this matters, because since it was so nice out, I was riding my new-to-me 1985 Honda v65 Sabre. She is a runnin' machine, if you know what I mean. So I hop on the bike, throw on my lid, and fire her up. She's purring like a kitten... well, really more like a tiger, but I digress. I enter the toll road through the toll gate at Centreville rd, passing through the exact change/smart tag lane, holding the smart tag in the air with my left hand, gingerly working the throttle with my right. As I approach, the gate goes up, the light turns green, and zzooooom! I'm on my way. I put the smart tag back in my pocket. At the main toll plaza, I plan on doing the same thing... "the same thing" being "using the smart tag". So I'm in the "smart tag only" lanes, holding the smart tag up with my left hand, steering and working the throttle with my right hand. Now, I know that this might seem like a very precarious position to be in, and I can understand why you might think that, but let me assure you that it's not that bad. Bikes pretty much steer themselves if you let them, and if you're gentle with the speed changes. So here I am, rolling through the toll, and I see a light I've never seen before... it says, "Toll not paid" "whafuh??", I say, hearing the bell going off indicating that I had just run the toll. "Well, heck. This is weird", I say to myself. Yes, I often talk to myself while I'm riding. Most motorcyclists do it, most of them don't talk about it, but that's besides the point... I make the rest of the trip uneventfully. It's a fulgent day, the trees that rich green of spring that is so unique to Virginia, the scent of honeysuckle hanging in the air. On the way home, I was thinking the the way I was holding the smart tag may have contributed to it's lack of communication with the receiver in at the toll booth. I resolve to make sure I hold it correctly, with none of my digits on the surface facing the antennae, oriented correctly, and tilted, as if it were mounted to a car windshield. Again, I assume my position, holding the smart tag out like cross, warding off attacking vampires, and again I get the error, "toll not paid". "man", I say out loud -- it's not like anyone can hear my, though. "That's no good! I wonder if there's something wrong with my smart tag?" "no," I answer myself, "it worked when I got on the toll road. No way it could have failed between then and now" (referring to when I got onto the toll road at Centreville road). At this point, I'm getting concerned. You see, I am not a scofflaw. I pay my toll every time I use the toll road. The only times I've used the access lanes have been when I have business at the airport... like picking up my Mother in law, or dropping off my sister for a flight, or purchasing gasoline from the retailer there. Well, I figure that at this stage of the game, there really isn't anything I can do - what's passed is past - I'll just try it again at Centreville Road. Lo and behold, it works just fine at the Centreville road exit. My question is this... was I photographed during my inadvertent violations? If I was, how do I take care of paying the toll, since the smart tag really should have worked for me. Well, I actually have two questions... the second one is: How can I keep this from happening in the future? thanks! --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 16:55:03 2004 From: To: Subject: Re: Woah - Bad Motorcycle Accident Pics (No Gore, Work Safe) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 16:54:56 -0400 > http://www.eccentricksportbikes.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=233 I was going to clip the wire on my Hyperlites so that they wouldn't blink all the time the brakes were activated. Think that I'll leave them in blinky mode after this Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 17:08:38 2004 Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:08:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Need Help Promoting Bike Night To: DC Cycles Cc: Charles Pena DC Cycles: I need some help promoting Bike Nights. Specifically, I need people to post flyers and cross post to other Moto-related lists and messageboards. For the flyer, there is a link on the web page to a printable PDF. If you can help please email me as to where you will post and/or flyer. Thanks PS: All moto shops in the area are open game. And the web lists do not have to be DC-specific. Thanks --- Mark Kitchell wrote: > MC Productions (Mark and Chuck) are pleased to > annouce > the first Bike Night for 2004. > > May 23, 2004 > Carpool Bar and Grill, Clarendon, VA (4000 Fairfax > Drive) > > 4PM-8PM > > Reserved Parking in the Front Lot > > All Makes and Models welcome > > BBQ by Rocklands > > http://www.geocities.com/bikenight/ > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2' > http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861 > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2' http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 17:18:53 2004 Subject: RE: Woah - Bad Motorcycle Accident Pics (No Gore, Work Safe) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 17:18:42 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: , Good freaking gravy! I really must get some longer mirrors, I can't easily see past my elbows, and I'm afraid I've fallen into the bad habit of not keeping an eye on traffic approaching from the rear. I'll sure remember that photo, though... Glad to hear he survived. That's a sobering photo. Robert -----Original Message----- From: mjordan812@XXXXXX [mailto:mjordan812@XXXXXX] Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 4:55 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Woah - Bad Motorcycle Accident Pics (No Gore, Work Safe) > http://www.eccentricksportbikes.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=233 I was going to clip the wire on my Hyperlites so that they wouldn't blink all the time the brakes were activated. Think that I'll leave them in blinky mode after this Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 17:23:46 2004 Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 17:20:34 -0400 To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch At 04:06 PM 5/13/04 EDT, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: >In a message dated 5/11/2004 10:23:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >omni@XXXXXX writes: > >> You wrapped a strip of >> cloth around each handlebar, and if you could ride up next to someone, and >> grab their cloth off, they were "shot down" > >My version was to reach over and shut off the other bikes kill* switch. We couldn't afford bikes with motors...best we could do was to use clothespins to put playing cards on the forks and let them get hit by the spokes to make engine sounds as you pedaled. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 18:12:33 2004 From: "W.S." To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: Moto question raised at lunch Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 18:12:22 -0400 From: Mike Bartman . . .snip Maybe one who understands risk? Maybe one who understands that new experiences are valuable for kids and that this gain can offset some reasonable risk? That it's better that the kid ride with a careful parent than with an inexperienced friend (and that if they want to ride, they will find a way somehow?). People in this country (at least) are terrible at evaluating risk. What's familiar is generally seen as "safe", and what's unusual is often seen as "dangerous", regardless of the actual risk factors. The ride to the airport in the taxi is usually more dangerous than the airplane flight, but most people happily get into the cab, and are nervous in the airplane anyway . . .snip Mike B. ******** I do a fair amount of swing-ballroom dancing and generally change in/out of dance/riding gear onsite. Occasional comments are about 75/25 "Shawzy" (shock-awe/are you crazy?) / "Cool" (other quasi-riders, mostly, some given the DCC clue). For the former it's tempting for me to launch into "the injury rate from dancing is probably greater per mile than motorcycling" or some such (and there are a myriad of major-to-minor physical/social risks involved in showing up on a given dance floor). Haven't launched yet, being somewhat patronizing -- before people comment about others' risktaking (such comment often envious) they'd best consider the rewards involved. Whatever paths we choose, we think about it (or perish): It's about risk/reward assessment. Those that question the risks we take, without recognizing our rewards, are insulting our intelligence. Our duty, as being enlightened, is to appropriately expand their horizons. "The greatest of all secrets is knowing how to reduce the force of envy" - Cardinal de Retz, "Memoirs" . Bill S. / DC '99 VN750 > At risk. Timely maintenance, great destinations my reward. Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 18:22:07 2004 Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 12:23:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Plastic Painting To: DC Cycles Who paints fairings around here? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2' http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 20:05:31 2004 Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 17:05:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: insurance loss rates for motorcycles? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX wasn't lister stephen harris an adjuster? he'd probably be the best source on this list for leads.... --- Lurking wrote: > Hello again, > > Your friendly neighborhood lurker here again. I've been > thinking about purchasing a new > motorcycle and I called around to 3 insurance companies > to get rate quotes on some of the > bikes I'm considering. The premiums were awfully high > (most over $3,000 per year) for full > coverage. I don't have a perfect record, but it's not > terrible either. I'm 25 and have > one ticket, one auto collision claim, and one > comprehensive auto claim in the past 3 years. > Anyway, I'm not going to ask about how to get a lower > rate because I know by this time > next year the two insurance claims will drop off my "3 > year record" and the rates will be > much more reasonable (which is why I'm probably going to > wait until this winter to buy my > new bike). > > What I'm wondering is if anyone knows a source for the > "multiplier" that insurance > companies use for each individual bike model. I could > use this to see which motorcycle > model will have the best and worst effect on insurance > premiums and that would aid my > decision process. I spent hours on the phone with the > insurance companies to get quotes > for only a select few bikes. If I had the loss rate for > each model it would likely > translate into the effect that the model of motorcycle > has on one's insurance premium. > This would be very useful information for consumers, > although I'm sure the manufacters of > the "high risk" bikes would do their darndest to keep a > lid on such risk data (at least for > consumers). > > I'm not buying a super-sport even. I'm looking a some > naked sportbikes (or sport touring), > such as the Honda 919, Yamaha FZ1/FZ6, and Aprilia Tuono. > It seems that insurance > companies rate most sport bikes the same, whether they > are true supersports (R1, GSX1000, > Ninja 9R) or more relaxed bikes like the ones I'm > considering (not that the ones I'm > considering aren't really powerful and fast). It really > is interesting, along with > frustrating, to learn more about how insurance companies > rate individuals and their > vehicles. > > -Kipp. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2' http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 20:44:15 2004 Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 20:31:39 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Bruce Brownlee Subject: Re: Re: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 maybe its time to just put it to bed..... i find humor in the fact that this exact same conversation is probably going on on the other side of the pond. and a bit of irony that mark would probably be the first to howl (and may have in the past if memory serves me) for someone posting what was expected to be a private communication on a public list. very, very bad netiquette. on the upside, since i can skip over the threads on ebay fraud, politically correct cars to own and whether society has a duty to protect kids from their parents, i manage to get thru the daily digest in a few seconds..... someone unsub me from "dc-busybodies" and resub me to "dc-cycles" please..... doesnt anyone ride anymore? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 21:19:26 2004 Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 18:19:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Re: Re: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Bruce Brownlee wrote: > on the upside, since i can skip over the threads on ebay fraud, > politically correct cars to own and whether society has a duty to > protect kids from their parents, i manage to get thru the daily > digest in a few seconds..... > > someone unsub me from "dc-busybodies" and resub me to "dc-cycles" > please..... Maybe there should be a second list: dc-cycles-chat ;-) It was raining and cold yesterday and drizzly and cold today (mid 40's). I'm spending bucks on fixing the gixxer with my eye on an upgrade depending on Aki's friend ;-) > > doesnt anyone ride anymore? > I'd like to. We went up to Boulder Mountain Park to Flagstaff Point, unfortunately in Rita's car :-( I think we can see Kansas from there and that was just a foothill (6800 feet). We were able to see downtown Denver. I'm planning a trip down to Las Vegas to visit my brother. I'll have to find something a little more round-about though :-) Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2' http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 22:14:05 2004 Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 22:13:19 -0400 (EDT) From: dan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Toll Not Paid On Thu, 13 May 2004, Skip wrote: > Hi! > > My question is this... was I photographed during my inadvertent violations? > If I was, how do I take care of paying the toll, since the smart tag really > should have worked for me. > > Well, I actually have two questions... the second one is: How can I keep this > from happening in the future? > > thanks! > > --skip > I wouldn't lose sleep over it. I hear some people go for the 50% off discount for bikes(two wheels vs four). Those smartags are "flakey". Many report running through time and time again. There have even been some "tricks" posted on this list. If you want it to work, you need to mount it on a windscreen or something that has some space behind it. Holding it isn't going to work all the time. You also need to go DIRECTLY under the sensor. Check out the archives, I have posted some questions on making it work correctly. Dan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 13 22:54:34 2004 Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 22:54:22 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: dan , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Toll Not Paid -----Original Message----- From: dan On Thu, 13 May 2004, Skip wrote: > Hi! > > My question is this... was I photographed during my inadvertent violations? > If I was, how do I take care of paying the toll, since the smart tag really > should have worked for me. > > Well, I actually have two questions... the second one is: How can I keep this > from happening in the future? > > thanks! > > --skip > I wouldn't lose sleep over it. I hear some people go for the 50% off discount for bikes(two wheels vs four). Those smartags are "flakey". Many report running through time and time again. There have even been some "tricks" posted on this list. If you want it to work, you need to mount it on a windscreen or something that has some space behind it. Holding it isn't going to work all the time. You also need to go DIRECTLY under the sensor. Check out the archives, I have posted some questions on making it work correctly. Dan ---- A VSP officer pulled me over for a little chat on this very subject last fall. Eastbound at the main plaza, Smart-Tag didn't register. He saw the tag, I said it didn't register, he said you just can't blow through the toll gate, I said it usually works just fine, velcroed to my windshield. We seemed to be at an impasse. He let me go. FWIW, I have a lot less trouble with my E-ZPass on the bike. Odd, since I thought they were basically the same technology. Shrug. Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 00:39:52 2004 Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 00:39:20 -0400 From: Brian Roach To: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 Bruce Brownlee wrote: >>someone unsub me from "dc-busybodies" and resub me to "dc-cycles" >>please..... Carl Schelin wrote: > Maybe there should be a second list: dc-cycles-chat ;-) There is. Er, well there was in ... 2001? Remarkably, after we created that list a couple years ago, the same people who don't post and then often complain that there's not enough moto content ... still didn't post. Then everyone came back to the main list, and we all lived happily ever after :) - Roach From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 00:46:45 2004 Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 21:46:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Brian Roach wrote: > > Bruce Brownlee wrote: > >>someone unsub me from "dc-busybodies" and resub me to "dc-cycles" > >>please..... > > Carl Schelin wrote: > > Maybe there should be a second list: dc-cycles-chat ;-) > > There is. Er, well there was in ... 2001? > > Remarkably, after we created that list a couple years ago, the same > people who don't post and then often complain that there's not enough > moto content ... still didn't post. Then everyone came back to the main > list, and we all lived happily ever after :) > Well, I was kidding since it was discussed last year as well. > - Roach > Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2' http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 00:57:36 2004 Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 00:57:26 -0400 From: Brian Roach To: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 Carl Schelin wrote: > Well, I was kidding since it was discussed last year as well. :DOH!: Well ... how about those Honda's? Think they'll take the pennant? :D - Roach From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 02:13:48 2004 Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 20:04:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Re: Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: 2002 Ninja ZX6R - $1800 To: Bruce Brownlee , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Sorry your dick got caught on the bedpost this morning. This is completely relevant to this list as Honda posted this ad a few days ago and its all about avoiding motorcycle related scams in DC . I am glad you are worried about netiquette with this great guy I have been conversing with... PS: I think the Nigerian Minister of Oil has been trying to contact you recently. Its pretty hush hush so make sure to keep your emails private. --- Bruce Brownlee wrote: > maybe its time to just put it to bed..... > > i find humor in the fact that this exact same > conversation is probably > going on on the other side of the pond. > > and a bit of irony that mark would probably be the > first to howl (and > may have in the past if memory serves me) for > someone posting what > was expected to be a private communication on a > public list. > > very, very bad netiquette. > > on the upside, since i can skip over the threads on > ebay fraud, > politically correct cars to own and whether society > has a duty to > protect kids from their parents, i manage to get > thru the daily > digest in a few seconds..... > > someone unsub me from "dc-busybodies" and resub me > to "dc-cycles" > please..... > > doesnt anyone ride anymore? > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2' http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 07:39:51 2004 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Toll Not Paid Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 07:27:50 -0400 I was pulled over at midnight on a weeknight once when the Smarttag didn't register. He didn't mention I was doing about 65. EZ Pass makes you slow to about 5mph, what a pain. Before I had my own, I used to borrow my folks, mom said she got a notice about me going too fast through the toll. >From: Paul Wilson >Reply-To: Paul Wilson >To: dan , dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: Toll Not Paid >Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 22:54:22 -0400 (GMT-04:00) >A VSP officer pulled me over for a little chat on this very subject last >fall. Eastbound at the main plaza, Smart-Tag didn't register. He saw the >tag, I said it didn't register, he said you just can't blow through the >toll gate, I said it usually works just fine, velcroed to my windshield. >We seemed to be at an impasse. He let me go. > >FWIW, I have a lot less trouble with my E-ZPass on the bike. Odd, since I >thought they were basically the same technology. Shrug. _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with the new version of MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 07:54:25 2004 From: To: Subject: Re: Re: Toll Not Paid Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 7:54:18 -0400 > FWIW, I have a lot less trouble with my E-ZPass on the bike. Odd, since I thought they were basically the same technology. Shrug. It all depends on how they adjust their sensing loops. When you hit the first loop, it triggers a query pulse from the overhead transmitter. If it sees a valid tag, you get a green light. If it doesn't, you get a red light when you hit the second (exit) loop. They never seem to have a problem with the sensitivity of the exit loops, but they do have a problem with the sensitivity of the entrance loop. It's not that they didn't read your tag, it's that they didn't even try to read it. Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 08:01:39 2004 From: To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Toll Not Paid Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 8:01:31 -0400 also, the transponders have batteries in them. Mine wouldn't read any more and I had to go to their office and get another one from them. They said that the average life expectancy of the transponders is about 2 years then the battery dies and can't be read. If you've had it for two or more years, it's possible that it's time to get a new one. -aki > > From: Paul Wilson > Date: 2004/05/13 Thu PM 10:54:22 EDT > To: dan , dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Toll Not Paid > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dan > > On Thu, 13 May 2004, Skip wrote: > > > Hi! > > > > My question is this... was I photographed during my inadvertent violations? > > If I was, how do I take care of paying the toll, since the smart tag really > > should have worked for me. > > > > Well, I actually have two questions... the second one is: How can I keep this > > from happening in the future? > > > > thanks! > > > > --skip > > > > I wouldn't lose sleep over it. I hear some people go for the 50% off > discount for bikes(two wheels vs four). Those smartags are "flakey". > Many report running through time and time again. There have even been > some "tricks" posted on this list. > > If you want it to work, you need to mount it on a windscreen or something > that has some space behind it. Holding it isn't going to work all the > time. You also need to go DIRECTLY under the sensor. Check out the > archives, I have posted some questions on making it work correctly. > > Dan > > ---- > > A VSP officer pulled me over for a little chat on this very subject last fall. Eastbound at the main plaza, Smart-Tag didn't register. He saw the tag, I said it didn't register, he said you just can't blow through the toll gate, I said it usually works just fine, velcroed to my windshield. We seemed to be at an impasse. He let me go. > > FWIW, I have a lot less trouble with my E-ZPass on the bike. Odd, since I thought they were basically the same technology. Shrug. > > > > > > Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org > 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 08:17:27 2004 From: To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Toll Not Paid Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 8:17:20 -0400 If you're having to slow down to 5mph, there's probably something wrong with the tag (or it's positioning). We routinely go through them at 50+mph and they're always read. -aki > > From: "rich hall" > Date: 2004/05/14 Fri AM 07:27:50 EDT > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Toll Not Paid > > I was pulled over at midnight on a weeknight once when the Smarttag didn't > register. He didn't mention I was doing about 65. > EZ Pass makes you slow to about 5mph, what a pain. Before I had my own, I > used to borrow my folks, mom said she got a notice about me going too fast > through the toll. > > >From: Paul Wilson > >Reply-To: Paul Wilson > >To: dan , dc-cycles@XXXXXX > >Subject: Re: Toll Not Paid > >Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 22:54:22 -0400 (GMT-04:00) > > >A VSP officer pulled me over for a little chat on this very subject last > >fall. Eastbound at the main plaza, Smart-Tag didn't register. He saw the > >tag, I said it didn't register, he said you just can't blow through the > >toll gate, I said it usually works just fine, velcroed to my windshield. > >We seemed to be at an impasse. He let me go. > > > >FWIW, I have a lot less trouble with my E-ZPass on the bike. Odd, since I > >thought they were basically the same technology. Shrug. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Express yourself with the new version of MSN Messenger! Download today - > it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 08:35:48 2004 Reply-To: "Louis Caplan" From: "Louis Caplan" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Toll Not Paid Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 08:36:26 -0400 > EZ Pass makes you slow to about 5mph, what a pain. Before I had my own, I > used to borrow my folks, mom said she got a notice about me going too fast > through the toll. Depends on which EZPass Location. New Jersey is adding high speed EZPass lanes to the NJ Turnpike. 55 mph at the northern end. The southern end looks like it'll be in operation soon. So higher limits are available. But they are separated from the "normal" toll lanes, and have walkways above/below them so people (Toll takers, etc) don't walk in that area. The other toll lanes are near stopped cars and possibly people walking, which is why I think they have the lower limits. Louis "Admiral" Louis Caplan 1998 Kawasaki Concours Fairfax, VA Please consider helping me support the Pediatric Brain Tumor Foundation http://www.geocities.com/nighthawk700/rideforkids.htm From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 08:37:44 2004 Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 08:37:00 -0400 (EDT) From: dan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Toll Not Paid On Thu, 13 May 2004, Paul Wilson wrote: > A VSP officer pulled me over for a little chat on this very subject last > fall. Eastbound at the main plaza, Smart-Tag didn't register. He saw > the tag, I said it didn't register, he said you just can't blow through > the toll gate, I said it usually works just fine, velcroed to my > windshield. We seemed to be at an impasse. He let me go. > There is not a chance in hell it would stand up in court, that's why he let you go. Everyone (judges Included) knows that they work most of the time and flake out sometimes. Signs say no backing up, what are you to do? Guess you could say you planned to mail them their damn $. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 08:38:17 2004 Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 08:37:27 -0400 From: Tom To: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Honda news? One industry source says yes. But I've been hearing rumors about new BB and the SuperHawk for 3 years now. http://www.motorcycledaily.com/20february04_cbr1100rr.htm From a '00 artical: http://www.motorcycledaily.com/21july00cbr1300xx.html Tom de '98 VTR Verde, Robert wrote: >Not reading as many industry mags as I should, I was wondering if anyone had heard of any future plans for Honda's CBR1100XX? > >The reviews of the CBR1000 I've read indicate that it's the neatest thing since sliced bagels, but I was curious if Honda is planning a new model of the Blackbird to launch an attack on the top-end records held by 'Busas and ZX-12's? > >Robert > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 09:11:30 2004 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Toll Not Paid Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 09:11:22 -0400 Noticed this last weekend, a welcome addition. Aki, I'm not doing 5mph by choice, it's the posted speed limit and you just about have to do that to see that the toll is paid. Last weekend we were in a rental van, you're not suppose to use a car that's not registered to the tag, so I didn't feeling like breaking 2 rules. I don't want to lose the EZ Pass, I don't know how many warnings they give. But looking at the suckers waiting to "pay" the toll I'm sooooo glad I have the EZ Pass for the 5-10 times a yr I use it. >From: "Louis Caplan" >Reply-To: "Louis Caplan" >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: Re: Toll Not Paid >Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 08:36:26 -0400 > > > EZ Pass makes you slow to about 5mph, what a pain. Before I had my >own, I > > used to borrow my folks, mom said she got a notice about me going >too fast > > through the toll. > >Depends on which EZPass Location. New Jersey is adding high speed EZPass >lanes to the NJ Turnpike. 55 mph at the northern end. The southern end >looks like it'll be in operation soon. So higher limits are available. >But they are separated from the "normal" toll lanes, and have walkways >above/below them so people (Toll takers, etc) don't walk in that area. The >other toll lanes are near stopped cars and possibly people walking, which >is why I think they have the lower limits. > >Louis > > >"Admiral" Louis Caplan 1998 Kawasaki Concours Fairfax, VA >Please consider helping me support the Pediatric Brain Tumor Foundation >http://www.geocities.com/nighthawk700/rideforkids.htm > _________________________________________________________________ Watch LIVE baseball games on your computer with MLB.TV, included with MSN Premium! http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200439ave/direct/01/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 09:25:36 2004 From: To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Toll Not Paid Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 9:25:29 -0400 > > From: "rich hall" > Date: 2004/05/14 Fri AM 09:11:22 EDT > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Re: Toll Not Paid > > Noticed this last weekend, a welcome addition. > Aki, I'm not doing 5mph by choice, it's the posted speed limit and you just > about have to do that to see that the toll is paid. Last weekend we were in > a rental van, you're not suppose to use a car that's not registered to the > tag, so I didn't feeling like breaking 2 rules. I don't want to lose the EZ > Pass, I don't know how many warnings they give. But looking at the suckers > waiting to "pay" the toll I'm sooooo glad I have the EZ Pass for the 5-10 > times a yr I use it. > I'm referring to "Smart Tag", Virginias bastardized version of the EZ Pass... I'm specifically referring to the 50 cent toll plaza on the toll road. I go through there a minimum of twice a day, every day during the work week, and I absolutely never see anyone going through the two left most lanes at 5mph. The *slowest* I ever see anyone going through is maybe 40mph. Even at 50mph, if it doesn't read, you'll know well before you pass the light. I don't know about not being able to use your EZ Pass in another vehicle. It's just a substitute for money. I was told by the Smart Tag folks at their office, (when I wanted to know what the procedure was for getting a third pass for our daughters car), that until we receive the third one, just use one from one of the other cars. I specifically mentioned using one in a rental, and they looked at me like I was from another planet. One even told me, "As long as you've got money on Smart Tag, what difference what car it's being used in?". All they want is your bling bling...they don't care what car it's attached to. -aki From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 09:31:21 2004 Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 09:29:44 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: adamme1@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Toll Not Paid -----Original Message----- From: adamme1@XXXXXX I don't know about not being able to use your EZ Pass in another vehicle. It's just a substitute for money. I was told by the Smart Tag folks at their office, (when I wanted to know what the procedure was for getting a third pass for our daughters car), that until we receive the third one, just use one from one of the other cars. I specifically mentioned using one in a rental, and they looked at me like I was from another planet. One even told me, "As long as you've got money on Smart Tag, what difference what car it's being used in?". All they want is your bling bling...they don't care what car it's attached to. -aki ------ I'm not sure this is entirely accurate. On E-ZPass, at least, I was under the impression that if your tag doesn't register for whatever reason they take a picture of your plate. That way they match up the tag # with the E-ZPass and dun your account manually. Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 09:57:04 2004 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Toll Not Paid Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 09:56:56 -0400 Changing vehicles is in the rules for EZ Pass. Don't know why. Mom is a stickler for rules, she put me on their pass because of this. Back when I commuted on the toll road I'd be upset if you broke at all for the plaza. They'll pick up well over the posted 35, I've heard. EZ Pass's indicator for tolls being paid is a lot closer to the both, therefore you don't have as long to see it. >From: >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: Re: Toll Not Paid >Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 9:25:29 -0400 > > >I'm referring to "Smart Tag", Virginias bastardized version of the EZ >Pass... > >I'm specifically referring to the 50 cent toll plaza on the toll road. I >go through there a minimum of twice a day, every day during the work week, >and I absolutely never see anyone going through the two left most lanes at >5mph. The *slowest* I ever see anyone going through is maybe 40mph. >Even at 50mph, if it doesn't read, you'll know well before you pass the >light. > >I don't know about not being able to use your EZ Pass in another vehicle. >It's just a substitute for money. I was told by the Smart Tag folks at >their office, (when I wanted to know what the procedure was for getting a >third pass for our daughters car), that until we receive the third one, >just use one from one of the other cars. I specifically mentioned using >one in a rental, and they looked at me like I was from another planet. One >even told me, "As long as you've got money on Smart Tag, what difference >what car it's being used in?". > >All they want is your bling bling...they don't care what car it's attached >to. _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar )B– get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 10:17:09 2004 Subject: Seizing the moment.lunch at Carlyle Grnad Shirlington 12:10PM today Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 10:21:15 -0400 From: "Julian Halton" To: I am heading out to Shirlington for my weekly lunch with the friendly barkeeps of Carlisle Grand. Anyone is welcome to join me. Cheers all and if anyone is doing some riding this weekend and does not mind company..let me know -----Original Message----- From: adamme1@XXXXXX [mailto:adamme1@XXXXXX] Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 9:25 AM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Toll Not Paid > > From: "rich hall" > Date: 2004/05/14 Fri AM 09:11:22 EDT > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Re: Toll Not Paid > > Noticed this last weekend, a welcome addition. > Aki, I'm not doing 5mph by choice, it's the posted speed limit and you > just about have to do that to see that the toll is paid. Last weekend > we were in a rental van, you're not suppose to use a car that's not > registered to the tag, so I didn't feeling like breaking 2 rules. I > don't want to lose the EZ Pass, I don't know how many warnings they > give. But looking at the suckers waiting to "pay" the toll I'm sooooo > glad I have the EZ Pass for the 5-10 times a yr I use it. > I'm referring to "Smart Tag", Virginias bastardized version of the EZ Pass... I'm specifically referring to the 50 cent toll plaza on the toll road. I go through there a minimum of twice a day, every day during the work week, and I absolutely never see anyone going through the two left most lanes at 5mph. The *slowest* I ever see anyone going through is maybe 40mph. Even at 50mph, if it doesn't read, you'll know well before you pass the light. I don't know about not being able to use your EZ Pass in another vehicle. It's just a substitute for money. I was told by the Smart Tag folks at their office, (when I wanted to know what the procedure was for getting a third pass for our daughters car), that until we receive the third one, just use one from one of the other cars. I specifically mentioned using one in a rental, and they looked at me like I was from another planet. One even told me, "As long as you've got money on Smart Tag, what difference what car it's being used in?". All they want is your bling bling...they don't care what car it's attached to. -aki From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 10:17:34 2004 From: To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Toll Not Paid Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 10:17:26 -0400 > > From: Paul Wilson > Date: 2004/05/14 Fri AM 09:29:44 EDT > To: adamme1@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Re: Toll Not Paid > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: adamme1@XXXXXX > > > I don't know about not being able to use your EZ Pass in another vehicle. It's just a substitute for money. I was told by the Smart Tag folks at their office, (when I wanted to know what the procedure was for getting a third pass for our daughters car), that until we receive the third one, just use one from one of the other cars. I specifically mentioned using one in a rental, and they looked at me like I was from another planet. One even told me, "As long as you've got money on Smart Tag, what difference what car it's being used in?". > > All they want is your bling bling...they don't care what car it's attached to. > > -aki > > ------ > > I'm not sure this is entirely accurate. On E-ZPass, at least, I was under the impression that if your tag doesn't register for whatever reason they take a picture of your plate. That way they match up the tag # with the E-ZPass and dun your account manually. > > From Smart Tags FAQ: What if I have more than one vehicle? Each account can have an unlimited number of Smart Tags. You have two options: You can get extra mounting strips so you can move the Smart Tag between vehicles (as long as they have the same number of axles), or you can request an additional Smart Tag to be issued under your account. In this case, the security deposit (if applicable), the replenishment amount and the low balance level are all doubled. You may request additional Smart Tags using the online Additional Smart Tag Application Form. and... Can I switch my Smart Tag to a vehicle with a different number of axles than the vehicle initially registered in my Smart Tag account (i.e. to tow my boat)? Your Smart Tag is programmed for a specific number of axles and can be used on any Toll Facility, which accepts Smart Tag as long as it is used on a vehicle with the same number of axles. Each Toll Facility has different rules for use by Smart Tag equipped vehicles that have greater (or fewer) axles than the Smart Tag is programmed for. Your best bet is to wrap your Smart Tag in aluminum foil, and pay cash in this circumstance as this solution will work on all Toll Facilities. so, the only stipulation is that whatever vehicle you're using it on, must have the same number of axles. Again, with EZ Pass, the rules may be different, but for Smart Tag, as long as you have the same number of axles, it's no big deal. -aki From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 10:36:12 2004 Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 10:35:59 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: adamme1@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Toll Not Paid -----Original Message----- From: adamme1@XXXXXX Again, with EZ Pass, the rules may be different, but for Smart Tag, as long as you have the same number of axles, it's no big deal. -aki --------- Yes, the rules for E-ZPass are different, at least in Maryland, and you can't move it a vehicle that's not on your account. When Virginia finally, at last, phases out the stand-alone Smart-Tag, the rules may be a-changing. Not also that the E-ZPass rules may vary from state to state. http://www.ezpassmd.com/static/terms/individual_terms.html TAG USE a) Tag Deposit. Cash or check customers must pay a deposit of $10 for each Tag. The deposit will be refunded when you close your Account and return the Tag unaltered and in good working condition as determined solely by E-ZPass. The Tag deposit is waived for customers who authorize Account replenishment via automatic charge to a credit card. b) You may use the Tag only on the vehicle(s) specifically listed on your Application. c) In accordance with the section titled "Violations" included herein, you must surrender the Tag immediately upon request. d) When you use the Tag at any E-ZPass facility, you authorize E-ZPass to debit your Account for such use. e) If you use the Tag on E-ZPass facilities other than E-ZPass facilities in Maryland, you are subject to the laws and regulations governing such use. f) You must maintain a sufficient balance in your Account, and may not use the Tag or permit its use by others unless a sufficient balance is maintained. Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 11:09:26 2004 Reply-To: "Patrick Carter" From: "Patrick Carter" To: Subject: Re: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE FRAUD Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 11:08:19 -0400 With all the fraud talk latey I thought I would run this by you all. Ok is this fishy to anyone? I posted an ad to sell some pocket/mini bikes on craigs list. I get a responce from this guy, but the way he wants to go about the transaction is a little funny. Since we are talking about a $2000 refund wired back to him and two $900 bikes, rather be safe than be out $4000. If he gives me a cashiers check how soon would a bank know if it is phoney? Can cashiers check come back bounced since you have to have the cash the order the check? Opinions? Suggestions? thanks, Pat Read below: Jerry, I am a little confused. Just to clarify. You want 2 bikes for $1800. Your giving me $120 for running around. Your client will be giving me a cashiers check of $4000. I cash the check. Deduct $1920. Meet your shipper with the bikes and wire the remaining $2080 to you shipper using western union. My name info is: Patrick Carter #### street name Fairfax, VA 22033 703-###-#### Just out of curiosity, where is your location? Is there a phone number I can reach you incase there are any other question, concerns, or problems? Can you please give me your clients information and your shippers information? Thanks, Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "jerry rogers" To: "Patrick Carter" Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 3:02 AM Subject: payment and trust > Thanks for the mail i will buy the for $1800.Payment will be made via a cachiers check of $4000 by a client of mine in the state an amount oweing, so it can be cashed at any local outlets in your area.All i need from you is your full name and address including phone number so i can fax it to my client. Pickup arrangement will be made by my shipper, so as soon as you recieve payment you will deduct your actual amount and extra $120 for running around and wired the rest of the funs to my shipper via western union money transfer who will be at your location for the pick up. confirm this and get back to me with neccessary details. I await your response > Jerry > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Patrick Carter" > Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:06:44 -0400 > To: "jerry rogers" > Subject: Re: 2004 mini sport bike / pocket bike - $900 > > > Well call me and we can set up a time and place to make the transaction. > > The price is the same as in the ad $900 each. The condition is band new. > > No fuel has ever been added to the tank. I have many in stock. Just let me > > know what color you want. I have Red, Blue, Black, Yellow and Silver. > > > > 703-906-2906 > > > > Thanks, > > Pat > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "jerry rogers" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:10 PM > > Subject: 2004 mini sport bike / pocket bike - $900 > > > > > > > I Saw your advert and am highly interested in buying it, kindly get back > > to me with your last offering price and the present condition of the above > > mentioned item. > > > Thanks. > > > Rogers > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Get your free email from http://mymail.dbzmail.com > > > > > > Powered by Outblaze > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Get your free email from http://mymail.dbzmail.com > > Powered by Outblaze > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 11:31:39 2004 From: To: Subject: Re: Re: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE FRAUD Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 11:31:28 -0400 Why would he want *you* to take more money than the selling price of the bikes and THEN send the excess somewhere else? He's paying for the shipping, he can pay the shipper directly. If he wants to send you money, have him send it to a recognized escrow site (like www.escrow.com). That way, he *can't* rip you off because the money (real money, not some fake cashiers check/money order). -aki > > From: "Patrick Carter" > Date: 2004/05/14 Fri AM 11:08:19 EDT > To: > Subject: Re: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE FRAUD > > With all the fraud talk latey I thought I would run this by you all. > > Ok is this fishy to anyone? I posted an ad to sell some pocket/mini bikes > on craigs list. I get a responce from this guy, but the way he wants to go > about the transaction is a little funny. Since we are talking about a $2000 > refund wired back to him and two $900 bikes, rather be safe than be out > $4000. > > If he gives me a cashiers check how soon would a bank know if it is phoney? > Can cashiers check come back bounced since you have to have the cash the > order the check? > > Opinions? Suggestions? > > thanks, > Pat > > Read below: > > > Jerry, > I am a little confused. Just to clarify. You want 2 bikes for $1800. Your > giving me $120 for running around. Your client will be giving me a cashiers > check of $4000. I cash the check. Deduct $1920. Meet your shipper with > the bikes and wire the remaining $2080 to you shipper using western union. > > My name info is: > Patrick Carter > #### street name > Fairfax, VA 22033 > 703-###-#### > > Just out of curiosity, where is your location? Is there a phone number I > can reach you incase there are any other question, concerns, or problems? > Can you please give me your clients information and your shippers > information? > > Thanks, > Pat > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "jerry rogers" > To: "Patrick Carter" > Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 3:02 AM > Subject: payment and trust > > > > Thanks for the mail i will buy the for $1800.Payment will be made via a > cachiers check of $4000 by a client of mine in the state an amount oweing, > so it can be cashed at any local outlets in your area.All i need from you > is your full name and address including phone number so i can fax it to my > client. Pickup arrangement will be made by my shipper, so as soon as you > recieve payment you will deduct your actual amount and extra $120 for > running around and wired the rest of the funs to my shipper via western > union money transfer who will be at your location for the pick up. confirm > this and get back to me with neccessary details. I await your response > > Jerry > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Patrick Carter" > > Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:06:44 -0400 > > To: "jerry rogers" > > Subject: Re: 2004 mini sport bike / pocket bike - $900 > > > > > Well call me and we can set up a time and place to make the transaction. > > > The price is the same as in the ad $900 each. The condition is band > new. > > > No fuel has ever been added to the tank. I have many in stock. Just > let me > > > know what color you want. I have Red, Blue, Black, Yellow and Silver. > > > > > > 703-906-2906 > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Pat > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "jerry rogers" > > > To: > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:10 PM > > > Subject: 2004 mini sport bike / pocket bike - $900 > > > > > > > > > > I Saw your advert and am highly interested in buying it, kindly get > back > > > to me with your last offering price and the present condition of the > above > > > mentioned item. > > > > Thanks. > > > > Rogers > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Get your free email from http://mymail.dbzmail.com > > > > > > > > Powered by Outblaze > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Get your free email from http://mymail.dbzmail.com > > > > Powered by Outblaze > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 11:48:25 2004 From: Daniel To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE FRAUD Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 11:47:44 -0400 That's a scam. a month later the check turns out to be phoney, and the bank takes the money out of your account, and you're out your two bikes and the money you sent him. They try that a lot over at 2wf.com classifieds.. and a lot of people post about getting ripped off that way.. usually it's from nigerians running the scam, either from africa and sometimes england. Accept cash or paypal or payment that can be cashed immediately at a local bank that it has issued the check/money orders. On Fri, 14 May 2004 11:08:19 -0400, "Patrick Carter" wrote: >With all the fraud talk latey I thought I would run this by you all. > >Ok is this fishy to anyone? I posted an ad to sell some pocket/mini bikes >on craigs list. I get a responce from this guy, but the way he wants to go >about the transaction is a little funny. Since we are talking about a $2000 >refund wired back to him and two $900 bikes, rather be safe than be out >$4000. > >If he gives me a cashiers check how soon would a bank know if it is phoney? >Can cashiers check come back bounced since you have to have the cash the >order the check? > >Opinions? Suggestions? > >thanks, >Pat > >Read below: > > >Jerry, >I am a little confused. Just to clarify. You want 2 bikes for $1800. Your >giving me $120 for running around. Your client will be giving me a cashiers >check of $4000. I cash the check. Deduct $1920. Meet your shipper with >the bikes and wire the remaining $2080 to you shipper using western union. > >My name info is: >Patrick Carter >#### street name >Fairfax, VA 22033 >703-###-#### > >Just out of curiosity, where is your location? Is there a phone number I >can reach you incase there are any other question, concerns, or problems? >Can you please give me your clients information and your shippers >information? > >Thanks, >Pat > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "jerry rogers" >To: "Patrick Carter" >Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 3:02 AM >Subject: payment and trust > > >> Thanks for the mail i will buy the for $1800.Payment will be made via a >cachiers check of $4000 by a client of mine in the state an amount oweing, >so it can be cashed at any local outlets in your area.All i need from you >is your full name and address including phone number so i can fax it to my >client. Pickup arrangement will be made by my shipper, so as soon as you >recieve payment you will deduct your actual amount and extra $120 for >running around and wired the rest of the funs to my shipper via western >union money transfer who will be at your location for the pick up. confirm >this and get back to me with neccessary details. I await your response >> Jerry >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Patrick Carter" >> Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:06:44 -0400 >> To: "jerry rogers" >> Subject: Re: 2004 mini sport bike / pocket bike - $900 >> >> > Well call me and we can set up a time and place to make the transaction. >> > The price is the same as in the ad $900 each. The condition is band >new. >> > No fuel has ever been added to the tank. I have many in stock. Just >let me >> > know what color you want. I have Red, Blue, Black, Yellow and Silver. >> > >> > 703-906-2906 >> > >> > Thanks, >> > Pat >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "jerry rogers" >> > To: >> > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:10 PM >> > Subject: 2004 mini sport bike / pocket bike - $900 >> > >> > >> > > I Saw your advert and am highly interested in buying it, kindly get >back >> > to me with your last offering price and the present condition of the >above >> > mentioned item. >> > > Thanks. >> > > Rogers >> > > -- >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Get your free email from http://mymail.dbzmail.com >> > > >> > > Powered by Outblaze >> > > >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Get your free email from http://mymail.dbzmail.com >> >> Powered by Outblaze >> From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 11:54:01 2004 From: Daniel To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: VA MSF class question Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 11:53:24 -0400 I have a friend and friend of a friend (here in known as FOAF). FOAF bought a motorcycle, and both want to take the class.. my friend said in the NOVA catalog that a learners permit was required to be obtained within 30 days of the class start. Is nova assuming a person has no liscense? is the catalog right or wrong? is that VA MSF policy now? or is a drivers liscense or MC learners permit equal when it comes to taking the class? btw they are in burke va.. is there a closer class that is less booked? - Danny From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 11:57:35 2004 Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 11:56:56 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: dpc2@XXXXXX ("Patrick Carter"), dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE FRAUD X-AOL-IP: 65.86.98.162 This is a scam. I've seen it discussed on other lists before. Cashiers checks can bounce and you will get hit with having to pay for it and be out two pocket bikes. Don't fall for it. Turn him into the place you posted the ad with as a possible fraud and have them check into it. I'm sure there are other places that you can noitify also. Scooter In a message dated 5/14/2004 11:08:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time, dpc2@XXXXXX writes: > > > With all the fraud talk latey I thought I would run this by you all. > > Ok is this fishy to anyone? I posted an ad to sell some pocket/mini bikes > on craigs list. I get a responce from this guy, but the way he wants to go > about the transaction is a little funny. Since we are talking about a $2000 > refund wired back to him and two $900 bikes, rather be safe than be out > $4000. > > If he gives me a cashiers check how soon would a bank know if it is phoney? > Can cashiers check come back bounced since you have to have the cash the > order the check? > > Opinions? Suggestions? > > thanks, > Pat > > Read below: > > > Jerry, > I am a little confused. Just to clarify. You want 2 bikes for $1800. Your > giving me $120 for running around. Your client will be giving me a cashiers > check of $4000. I cash the check. Deduct $1920. Meet your shipper with > the bikes and wire the remaining $2080 to you shipper using western union. > > My name info is: > Patrick Carter > #### street name > Fairfax, VA 22033 > 703-###-#### > > Just out of curiosity, where is your location? Is there a phone number I > can reach you incase there are any other question, concerns, or problems? > Can you please give me your clients information and your shippers > information? > > Thanks, > Pat > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "jerry rogers" > To: "Patrick Carter" > Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 3:02 AM > Subject: payment and trust > > > > Thanks for the mail i will buy the for $1800.Payment will be made via a > cachiers check of $4000 by a client of mine in the state an amount oweing, > so it can be cashed at any local outlets in your area.All i need from you > is your full name and address including phone number so i can fax it to my > client. Pickup arrangement will be made by my shipper, so as soon as you > recieve payment you will deduct your actual amount and extra $120 for > running around and wired the rest of the funs to my shipper via western > union money transfer who will be at your location for the pick up. confirm > this and get back to me with neccessary details. I await your response > > Jerry > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Patrick Carter" > > Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:06:44 -0400 > > To: "jerry rogers" > > Subject: Re: 2004 mini sport bike / pocket bike - $900 > > > > > Well call me and we can set up a time and place to make the transaction. > > > The price is the same as in the ad $900 each. The condition is band > new. > > > No fuel has ever been added to the tank. I have many in stock. Just > let me > > > know what color you want. I have Red, Blue, Black, Yellow and Silver. > > > > > > 703-906-2906 > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Pat > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "jerry rogers" > > > To: > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:10 PM > > > Subject: 2004 mini sport bike / pocket bike - $900 > > > > > > > > > > I Saw your advert and am highly interested in buying it, kindly get > back > > > to me with your last offering price and the present > condition of the > above > > > mentioned item. > > > > Thanks. > > > > Rogers > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Get your free email from http://mymail.dbzmail.com > > > > > > > > Powered by Outblaze > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Get your free email from http://mymail.dbzmail.com > > > > Powered by Outblaze > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 12:01:15 2004 From: Jim Shoemaker Subject: Re: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE FRAUD To: Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 12:01:07 -0400 I'd say there's about a 0.0001% that this is legit. Looks like the basic Nigerian scam to me, but with a slightly better command of english. He even forgot to fill in what he was trying to "buy" in the boilerplate response. --Jim On Fri, 14 May 2004 11:08:19 -0400 "Patrick Carter" wrote: > With all the fraud talk latey I thought I would run this by you all. > > Ok is this fishy to anyone? > > Thanks for the mail i will buy the for $1800. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 12:05:16 2004 Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 12:05:10 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: Daniel , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: VA MSF class question -----Original Message----- From: Daniel Sent: May 14, 2004 11:53 AM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: VA MSF class question I have a friend and friend of a friend (here in known as FOAF). FOAF bought a motorcycle, and both want to take the class.. my friend said in the NOVA catalog that a learners permit was required to be obtained within 30 days of the class start. Is nova assuming a person has no liscense? is the catalog right or wrong? is that VA MSF policy now? or is a drivers liscense or MC learners permit equal when it comes to taking the class? btw they are in burke va.. is there a closer class that is less booked? - Danny ------------- You must have a valid *driver's* license to take the course. MC learner's permit is not required for the purposes of the course. If NOVA Loudoun and Alexandria are booked too far out, try Lord Fairfax (nr. Winchester) or Germanna (nr. Fredericksburg.) Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 12:23:06 2004 From: "Motorcycle Guy" To: viffermaniac@XXXXXX, motorcycle@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: VA MSF class question Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 12:11:29 -0400 No motorcycle license or permit is required to take the MSF class in VA. >From: Paul Wilson >Reply-To: Paul Wilson >To: Daniel , dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: VA MSF class question >Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 12:05:10 -0400 (GMT-04:00) > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Daniel >Sent: May 14, 2004 11:53 AM >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: VA MSF class question > >I have a friend and friend of a friend (here in known as FOAF). > >FOAF bought a motorcycle, and both want to take the class.. > >my friend said in the NOVA catalog that a learners permit was required >to be obtained within 30 days of the class start. > >Is nova assuming a person has no liscense? is the catalog right or >wrong? is that VA MSF policy now? or is a drivers liscense or >MC learners permit equal when it comes to taking the class? > >btw they are in burke va.. is there a closer class that is less >booked? > > - Danny > >------------- > >You must have a valid *driver's* license to take the course. MC learner's >permit is not required for the purposes of the course. > >If NOVA Loudoun and Alexandria are booked too far out, try Lord Fairfax >(nr. Winchester) or Germanna (nr. Fredericksburg.) > > > > >Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org >95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 12:31:43 2004 Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 08:39:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE FRAUD To: Patrick Carter , dc-cycles@XXXXXX DON'T DO IT. That is a scam. He will steal your money. That person is clearly not a native english speaker. Craigslist is full of them. --- Patrick Carter wrote: > With all the fraud talk latey I thought I would run > this by you all. > > Ok is this fishy to anyone? I posted an ad to sell > some pocket/mini bikes > on craigs list. I get a responce from this guy, but > the way he wants to go > about the transaction is a little funny. Since we > are talking about a $2000 > refund wired back to him and two $900 bikes, rather > be safe than be out > $4000. > > If he gives me a cashiers check how soon would a > bank know if it is phoney? > Can cashiers check come back bounced since you have > to have the cash the > order the check? > > Opinions? Suggestions? > > thanks, > Pat > > Read below: > > > Jerry, > I am a little confused. Just to clarify. You want > 2 bikes for $1800. Your > giving me $120 for running around. Your client will > be giving me a cashiers > check of $4000. I cash the check. Deduct $1920. > Meet your shipper with > the bikes and wire the remaining $2080 to you > shipper using western union. > > My name info is: > Patrick Carter > #### street name > Fairfax, VA 22033 > 703-###-#### > > Just out of curiosity, where is your location? Is > there a phone number I > can reach you incase there are any other question, > concerns, or problems? > Can you please give me your clients information and > your shippers > information? > > Thanks, > Pat > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "jerry rogers" > To: "Patrick Carter" > Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 3:02 AM > Subject: payment and trust > > > > Thanks for the mail i will buy the for > $1800.Payment will be made via a > cachiers check of $4000 by a client of mine in the > state an amount oweing, > so it can be cashed at any local outlets in your > area.All i need from you > is your full name and address including phone > number so i can fax it to my > client. Pickup arrangement will be made by my > shipper, so as soon as you > recieve payment you will deduct your actual amount > and extra $120 for > running around and wired the rest of the funs to my > shipper via western > union money transfer who will be at your location > for the pick up. confirm > this and get back to me with neccessary details. I > await your response > > Jerry > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Patrick Carter" > > Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:06:44 -0400 > > To: "jerry rogers" > > Subject: Re: 2004 mini sport bike / pocket bike - > $900 > > > > > Well call me and we can set up a time and place > to make the transaction. > > > The price is the same as in the ad $900 each. > The condition is band > new. > > > No fuel has ever been added to the tank. I have > many in stock. Just > let me > > > know what color you want. I have Red, Blue, > Black, Yellow and Silver. > > > > > > 703-906-2906 > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Pat > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "jerry rogers" > > > To: > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:10 PM > > > Subject: 2004 mini sport bike / pocket bike - > $900 > > > > > > > > > > I Saw your advert and am highly interested in > buying it, kindly get > back > > > to me with your last offering price and the > present condition of the > above > > > mentioned item. > > > > Thanks. > > > > Rogers > > > > -- > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Get your free email from > http://mymail.dbzmail.com > > > > > > > > Powered by Outblaze > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Get your free email from http://mymail.dbzmail.com > > > > Powered by Outblaze > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 12:50:56 2004 Reply-To: "Patrick Carter" From: "Patrick Carter" To: Subject: Re: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE FRAUD Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 12:50:29 -0400 Ok thanks guys. The consinsous is to walk away from this deal. Should I even reply to offer him only 2 options? The paypal option or the www.escrow.com option. Or just walk away totally? Either way I am not going for that cashiers check deal. Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Kitchell" To: "Patrick Carter" ; Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 11:39 AM Subject: Re: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE FRAUD > DON'T DO IT. That is a scam. He will steal your > money. That person is clearly not a native english > speaker. > > Craigslist is full of them. > > > --- Patrick Carter wrote: > > With all the fraud talk latey I thought I would run > > this by you all. > > > > Ok is this fishy to anyone? I posted an ad to sell > > some pocket/mini bikes > > on craigs list. I get a responce from this guy, but > > the way he wants to go > > about the transaction is a little funny. Since we > > are talking about a $2000 > > refund wired back to him and two $900 bikes, rather > > be safe than be out > > $4000. > > > > If he gives me a cashiers check how soon would a > > bank know if it is phoney? > > Can cashiers check come back bounced since you have > > to have the cash the > > order the check? > > > > Opinions? Suggestions? > > > > thanks, > > Pat > > > > Read below: > > > > > > Jerry, > > I am a little confused. Just to clarify. You want > > 2 bikes for $1800. Your > > giving me $120 for running around. Your client will > > be giving me a cashiers > > check of $4000. I cash the check. Deduct $1920. > > Meet your shipper with > > the bikes and wire the remaining $2080 to you > > shipper using western union. > > > > My name info is: > > Patrick Carter > > #### street name > > Fairfax, VA 22033 > > 703-###-#### > > > > Just out of curiosity, where is your location? Is > > there a phone number I > > can reach you incase there are any other question, > > concerns, or problems? > > Can you please give me your clients information and > > your shippers > > information? > > > > Thanks, > > Pat > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "jerry rogers" > > To: "Patrick Carter" > > Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 3:02 AM > > Subject: payment and trust > > > > > > > Thanks for the mail i will buy the for > > $1800.Payment will be made via a > > cachiers check of $4000 by a client of mine in the > > state an amount oweing, > > so it can be cashed at any local outlets in your > > area.All i need from you > > is your full name and address including phone > > number so i can fax it to my > > client. Pickup arrangement will be made by my > > shipper, so as soon as you > > recieve payment you will deduct your actual amount > > and extra $120 for > > running around and wired the rest of the funs to my > > shipper via western > > union money transfer who will be at your location > > for the pick up. confirm > > this and get back to me with neccessary details. I > > await your response > > > Jerry > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Patrick Carter" > > > Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:06:44 -0400 > > > To: "jerry rogers" > > > Subject: Re: 2004 mini sport bike / pocket bike - > > $900 > > > > > > > Well call me and we can set up a time and place > > to make the transaction. > > > > The price is the same as in the ad $900 each. > > The condition is band > > new. > > > > No fuel has ever been added to the tank. I have > > many in stock. Just > > let me > > > > know what color you want. I have Red, Blue, > > Black, Yellow and Silver. > > > > > > > > 703-906-2906 > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Pat > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "jerry rogers" > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:10 PM > > > > Subject: 2004 mini sport bike / pocket bike - > > $900 > > > > > > > > > > > > > I Saw your advert and am highly interested in > > buying it, kindly get > > back > > > > to me with your last offering price and the > > present condition of the > > above > > > > mentioned item. > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > Rogers > > > > > -- > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Get your free email from > > http://mymail.dbzmail.com > > > > > > > > > > Powered by Outblaze > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Get your free email from http://mymail.dbzmail.com > > > > > > Powered by Outblaze > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. > http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/ > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 13:20:48 2004 Subject: RE: payment and trust <--Absolutely this is fraud Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 13:20:39 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Patrick Carter" , Walk away, notify whomever you like that there is another fraudster on the loose. If he was actually a serious buyer, he wouldn't be suggesting this sort of monkey business. His greed got the better of him, prompting him to try and get cash as well as merchandise in exchange for a bogus cashier's check. Scum. Robert -----Original Message----- From: Patrick Carter [mailto:dpc2@XXXXXX] Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 12:50 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE FRAUD Ok thanks guys. The consinsous is to walk away from this deal. Should I even reply to offer him only 2 options? The paypal option or the www.escrow.com option. Or just walk away totally? Either way I am not going for that cashiers check deal. Pat From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 13:24:02 2004 Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 13:23:47 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE FRAUD X-AOL-IP: 65.86.98.162 I would just walk away and not respond. Also, be extra careful and mindful of people/things around your place now. Since you gave him your address, he can pass it on to someone here in the states to target you for a possible burglary. I've heard of that happening now as well. Scooter In a message dated 5/14/2004 12:50:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dpc2@XXXXXX writes: > > > Ok thanks guys. The consinsous is to walk away from this deal. Should I > even reply to offer him only 2 options? The paypal option or the > www.escrow.com option. Or just walk away totally? > > Either way I am not going for that cashiers check deal. > > Pat > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Kitchell" > To: "Patrick Carter" ; > Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 11:39 AM > Subject: Re: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE > FRAUD > > > > DON'T DO IT. That is a scam. He will steal your > > money. That person is clearly not a native english > > speaker. > > > > Craigslist is full of them. > > > > > > --- Patrick Carter wrote: > > > With all the fraud talk latey I thought I would run > > > this by you all. > > > > > > Ok is this fishy to anyone? I posted an ad to sell > > > some pocket/mini bikes > > > on craigs list. I get a responce from this guy, but > > > the way he wants to go > > > about the transaction is a little funny. Since we > > > are talking about a $2000 > > > refund wired back to him and two $900 bikes, rather > > > be safe than be out > > > $4000. > > > > > > If he gives me a cashiers check how soon would a > > > bank know if it is phoney? > > > Can cashiers check come back bounced since you have > > > to have the cash the > > > order the check? > > > > > > Opinions? Suggestions? > > > > > > thanks, > > > Pat > > > > > > Read below: > > > > > > > > > Jerry, > > > I am a little confused. Just to clarify. You want > > > 2 bikes for $1800. Your > > > giving me $120 for running around. Your client will > > > be giving me a cashiers > > > check of $4000. I cash the check. Deduct $1920. > > > Meet your shipper with > > > the bikes and wire the remaining $2080 to you > > > shipper using western union. > > > > > > My name info is: > > > Patrick Carter > > > #### street name > > > Fairfax, VA 22033 > > > 703-###-#### > > > > > > Just out of curiosity, where is your location? Is > > > there a phone number I > > > can reach you incase there are any other question, > > > concerns, or problems? > > > Can you please give me your clients information and > > > your shippers > > > information? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Pat > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "jerry rogers" > > > To: "Patrick Carter" > > > Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 3:02 AM > > > Subject: payment and trust > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the mail i will buy the for > > > $1800.Payment will be made via a > > > cachiers check of $4000 by a client of mine in the > > > state an amount oweing, > > > so it can be cashed at any local outlets in your > > > area.All i need from you > > > is your full name and address including phone > > > number so i can fax it to my > > > client. Pickup arrangement will be made by my > > > shipper, so as soon as you > > > recieve payment you will deduct your actual amount > > > and extra $120 for > > > running around and wired the rest of the funs to my > > > shipper via western > > > union money transfer who will be at your location > > > for the pick up. confirm > > > this and get back to me with neccessary details. I > > > await your response > > > > Jerry > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Patrick Carter" > > > > Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:06:44 -0400 > > > > To: "jerry rogers" > > > > Subject: Re: 2004 mini sport bike / pocket bike - > > > $900 > > > > > > > > > Well call me and we can set up a time and place > > > to make the transaction. > > > > > The price is the same as in the ad $900 each. > > > The condition is band > > > new. > > > > > No fuel has ever been added to the tank. I have > > > many in stock. Just > > > let me > > > > > know what color you want. I have Red, Blue, > > > Black, Yellow and Silver. > > > > > > > > > > 703-906-2906 > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Pat > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "jerry rogers" > > > > > To: > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:10 PM > > > > > Subject: 2004 mini sport bike / pocket bike - > > > $900 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I Saw your advert and am highly interested in > > > buying it, kindly get > > > back > > > > > to me with your last offering price and the > > > present condition of the > > > above > > > > > mentioned item. > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > Rogers > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Get your free email from > > > http://mymail.dbzmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Powered by Outblaze > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Get your free email from http://mymail.dbzmail.com > > > > > > > > Powered by Outblaze > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. > > http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/ > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 13:45:08 2004 Reply-To: "Patrick Carter" From: "Patrick Carter" To: Subject: Re: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE FRAUD Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 13:44:59 -0400 Thanks guys. Actually I never sent that last email. I still have it in my drafts. So he doesn't have any of my info. Well except my phone number that I sent in the first email. Yeah I figure its a waste of time giving him the 2 option cause he prolly would reply to that. Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 1:23 PM Subject: Re: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE FRAUD > I would just walk away and not respond. Also, be extra careful and mindful of people/things around your place now. Since you gave him your address, he can pass it on to someone here in the states to target you for a possible burglary. I've heard of that happening now as well. > > Scooter > > In a message dated 5/14/2004 12:50:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dpc2@XXXXXX writes: > > > > > > > Ok thanks guys. The consinsous is to walk away from this deal. Should I > > even reply to offer him only 2 options? The paypal option or the > > www.escrow.com option. Or just walk away totally? > > > > Either way I am not going for that cashiers check deal. > > > > Pat > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Mark Kitchell" > > To: "Patrick Carter" ; > > Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 11:39 AM > > Subject: Re: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE > > FRAUD > > > > > > > DON'T DO IT. That is a scam. He will steal your > > > money. That person is clearly not a native english > > > speaker. > > > > > > Craigslist is full of them. > > > > > > > > > --- Patrick Carter wrote: > > > > With all the fraud talk latey I thought I would run > > > > this by you all. > > > > > > > > Ok is this fishy to anyone? I posted an ad to sell > > > > some pocket/mini bikes > > > > on craigs list. I get a responce from this guy, but > > > > the way he wants to go > > > > about the transaction is a little funny. Since we > > > > are talking about a $2000 > > > > refund wired back to him and two $900 bikes, rather > > > > be safe than be out > > > > $4000. > > > > > > > > If he gives me a cashiers check how soon would a > > > > bank know if it is phoney? > > > > Can cashiers check come back bounced since you have > > > > to have the cash the > > > > order the check? > > > > > > > > Opinions? Suggestions? > > > > > > > > thanks, > > > > Pat > > > > > > > > Read below: > > > > > > > > > > > > Jerry, > > > > I am a little confused. Just to clarify. You want > > > > 2 bikes for $1800. Your > > > > giving me $120 for running around. Your client will > > > > be giving me a cashiers > > > > check of $4000. I cash the check. Deduct $1920. > > > > Meet your shipper with > > > > the bikes and wire the remaining $2080 to you > > > > shipper using western union. > > > > > > > > My name info is: > > > > Patrick Carter > > > > #### street name > > > > Fairfax, VA 22033 > > > > 703-###-#### > > > > > > > > Just out of curiosity, where is your location? Is > > > > there a phone number I > > > > can reach you incase there are any other question, > > > > concerns, or problems? > > > > Can you please give me your clients information and > > > > your shippers > > > > information? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Pat > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "jerry rogers" > > > > To: "Patrick Carter" > > > > Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 3:02 AM > > > > Subject: payment and trust > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the mail i will buy the for > > > > $1800.Payment will be made via a > > > > cachiers check of $4000 by a client of mine in the > > > > state an amount oweing, > > > > so it can be cashed at any local outlets in your > > > > area.All i need from you > > > > is your full name and address including phone > > > > number so i can fax it to my > > > > client. Pickup arrangement will be made by my > > > > shipper, so as soon as you > > > > recieve payment you will deduct your actual amount > > > > and extra $120 for > > > > running around and wired the rest of the funs to my > > > > shipper via western > > > > union money transfer who will be at your location > > > > for the pick up. confirm > > > > this and get back to me with neccessary details. I > > > > await your response > > > > > Jerry > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Patrick Carter" > > > > > Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:06:44 -0400 > > > > > To: "jerry rogers" > > > > > Subject: Re: 2004 mini sport bike / pocket bike - > > > > $900 > > > > > > > > > > > Well call me and we can set up a time and place > > > > to make the transaction. > > > > > > The price is the same as in the ad $900 each. > > > > The condition is band > > > > new. > > > > > > No fuel has ever been added to the tank. I have > > > > many in stock. Just > > > > let me > > > > > > know what color you want. I have Red, Blue, > > > > Black, Yellow and Silver. > > > > > > > > > > > > 703-906-2906 > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Pat > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: "jerry rogers" > > > > > > To: > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:10 PM > > > > > > Subject: 2004 mini sport bike / pocket bike - > > > > $900 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I Saw your advert and am highly interested in > > > > buying it, kindly get > > > > back > > > > > > to me with your last offering price and the > > > > present condition of the > > > > above > > > > > > mentioned item. > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > > Rogers > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > Get your free email from > > > > http://mymail.dbzmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Powered by Outblaze > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Get your free email from http://mymail.dbzmail.com > > > > > > > > > > Powered by Outblaze > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. > > > http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/ > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 13:46:49 2004 Subject: Shifting Problem Mechanically-challenged description Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 13:50:55 -0400 From: "Julian Halton" To: I ride the '02 R6. Every once in a while when shifting from 1st to 2nd gear, neutral to first or second while moving, or downshifting from 2nd to 1st..the following behavior occurs. Clutch in, use shift lever,ggrrrrrrrrrr sound. Okay, does not want to shift. Release clutch wait, try to shift down to 1st...grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr sound. Okay wait, try to shift UP to second...grrrr sound. Release clutch, wait, wait MEANWHILE I am slowing down and car drivers behind me are getting pissed. Depress clutch, shift lever and finally make it into gear. I have been advised in the past to check out R6 specific problems on an R6 forum. My question is, what magical happening occurs during the time I am in neutral and slowing down that allows me to get past the grrrr sound and shift into gear? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 13:56:43 2004 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: , Subject: Re: Re: Woah - Bad Motorcycle Accident Pics (No Gore, Work Safe) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 13:56:35 -0400 > From: > > > http://www.eccentricksportbikes.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=233 > > I was going to clip the wire on my Hyperlites so that they wouldn't blink all the time the brakes were activated. > > Think that I'll leave them in blinky mode after this Yeah, I keep mine blinking. Have had problems with VA state inspection that way, however. So I clipped the wire and put some quick disconnect terminals on each end. Keep them plugged together most of the time, disconnect them for inspection, then connect them back up. Bob Meyer Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" '92 ST1100, "red STag" '02 919, "still looking for a name" A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers.... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 14:13:55 2004 Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 14:13:35 -0400 From: Brian Roach To: Julian Halton CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Shifting Problem Mechanically-challenged description Julian Halton wrote: > My question is, what magical happening occurs during the time I am in > neutral and slowing down that allows me to get past the grrrr sound and > shift into gear? The amount of load being applied to the tranny changes. The most likely reason you can't shift is because there's too much load on the input shaft gears to allow the the gears on the output shaft to engage. If you can shift the bike at a standstill without problems, that's pretty likely. When you pull in the clutch, you're removing the engine load from the input shaft, which allows the gearbox to move to the next gear on the output shaft. I'd check to see that your clutch is properly adjusted and is fully dis-engaging when you pull in the lever. If it's not a clutch problem ... then you're looking at a problem with the gearbox itself, such as a bent shift fork that isn't moving the gears far enough along the counter shaft. - Roach -- http://www.speedwerks.com The one-stop shop for all your motorcycling needs! (302) 672 - 7223 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 14:14:29 2004 From: "Perry Coleman" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE FRAUD Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 14:14:21 -0400 Unless you want to play with him for a bit. You could offer to send a fax of the bikes to go with his fax of the check, or something. Maybe Kitchell could come up with some good ideas to play this fish for a while... Perry >From: "Patrick Carter" >Reply-To: "Patrick Carter" >To: >Subject: Re: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE FRAUD >Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 13:44:59 -0400 > >Thanks guys. Actually I never sent that last email. I still have it in my >drafts. So he doesn't have any of my info. Well except my phone number >that I sent in the first email. > >Yeah I figure its a waste of time giving him the 2 option cause he prolly >would reply to that. > >Pat > _________________________________________________________________ Stop worrying about overloading your inbox - get MSN Hotmail Extra Storage! http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 14:22:39 2004 From: bernescut@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Shifting Problem Mechanically-challenged description Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 14:22:13 -0400 I'm having a similare problem on my CBR600F4, but speed of the bike doesn't seem to affect shift effort. I find that I have to give the shift lever a solid whack to get it to shift and I get a solid "thunk" when it engages the next gear (up or down). I also get false neutrals between 1st and 2nd and occasionally when downshifting between 5th and 4th. If my clutch is adjusted OK and I have to work on my F4's tranny, does it have to come out of the frame? Does the engine have to come out to get to it? Is a used transmission from a wrecked CBR a worthwhile alternative? Thanks for any advice I can get... Cedric Bernescut 2000 CBR600F4 Annandale, VA If it's not a clutch problem ... then you're looking at a problem with the gearbox itself, such as a bent shift fork that isn't moving the gears far enough along the counter shaft. - Roach -- http://www.speedwerks.com The one-stop shop for all your motorcycling needs! (302) 672 - 7223 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 14:34:17 2004 Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 10:33:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: RE: payment and trust <--Absolutely this is fraud To: "Verde, Robert" , Patrick Carter , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Despite what Bruce Brownlee thinks, I believe its valuable for us to share this type of information. This is so clearly a scam. I bet this guy does not know what a pocket bike is. --- "Verde, Robert" wrote: > Walk away, notify whomever you like that there is > another fraudster on the loose. > > If he was actually a serious buyer, he wouldn't be > suggesting this sort of monkey business. His greed > got the better of him, prompting him to try and get > cash as well as merchandise in exchange for a bogus > cashier's check. Scum. > > Robert > > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick Carter [mailto:dpc2@XXXXXX] > Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 12:50 PM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? > POSSIBLE FRAUD > > > Ok thanks guys. The consinsous is to walk away from > this deal. Should I > even reply to offer him only 2 options? The paypal > option or the > www.escrow.com option. Or just walk away totally? > > Either way I am not going for that cashiers check > deal. > > Pat > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 14:44:11 2004 Subject: RE: payment and trust <--Absolutely this is fraud Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 14:44:02 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Mark Kitchell" , "Patrick Carter" , I second Mark's comments. I'm planning on placing an ad or two myself, and these accounts have opened my eyes to a variety of scams I had not even thought of. I guess it's my naivet)Bé speaking, but I really didn't think transactions of this nature (bikes selling for under 5K) would attract this many entrepreneurial crooks; these stories are certainly edifying, and more than a bit disconcerting. Robert -----Original Message----- From: Mark Kitchell [mailto:markkitchell@XXXXXX] Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 1:33 PM To: Verde, Robert; Patrick Carter; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: payment and trust <--Absolutely this is fraud Despite what Bruce Brownlee thinks, I believe its valuable for us to share this type of information. This is so clearly a scam. I bet this guy does not know what a pocket bike is. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 14:46:10 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 14:45:57 EDT Subject: Re: Shifting Problem Mechanically-challenged description To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 5/14/2004 1:47:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, julian@XXXXXX writes: > Every once in a while when shifting from 1st to 2nd > gear, Are you SHIFTING or are you s..h..i..f..t..i..n..g. The throw from 1st to 2nd is longer and if you try to do a slow "easy" shift you may get what you are describing. Also check your clutch adjustment, if it is dragging it could cause the problem you describe. New "bumper sticker" on the ST1100. "Eat right, stay fit, DIE ANYWAY!" John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 15:14:44 2004 Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 11:22:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Shifting Problem Mechanically-challenged description To: Julian Halton Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Julian: Thats a good question and I am looking forward to more technical answers (thanks Brian). I had this problem recently and it turned out to be a simple fix. My clutch lever was adjusted so that when pulled in it was hitting the handlebar. Therefore, the clutch was not fully disengaging. --- Brian Roach wrote: > Julian Halton wrote: > > > My question is, what magical happening occurs > during the time I am in > > neutral and slowing down that allows me to get > past the grrrr sound and > > shift into gear? > > The amount of load being applied to the tranny > changes. > > The most likely reason you can't shift is because > there's too much load > on the input shaft gears to allow the the gears on > the output shaft to > engage. If you can shift the bike at a standstill > without problems, > that's pretty likely. When you pull in the clutch, > you're removing the > engine load from the input shaft, which allows the > gearbox to move to > the next gear on the output shaft. > > I'd check to see that your clutch is properly > adjusted and is fully > dis-engaging when you pull in the lever. > > If it's not a clutch problem ... then you're looking > at a problem with > the gearbox itself, such as a bent shift fork that > isn't moving the > gears far enough along the counter shaft. > > - Roach > > -- > http://www.speedwerks.com > The one-stop shop for all your motorcycling needs! > (302) 672 - 7223 > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 18:03:13 2004 From: "Gary Foreman" To: "'Patrick Carter'" , Subject: RE: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE FRAUD Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 18:06:10 -0400 Don't trust PayPal. I had someone order something from me, shipped it, and two months later, PayPal takes the money out of my account, with no notification, and said the person used a fake card. So I'm out the item. Called the guy's phone no, and he answered and said he would straighten it out. Then he stopped answering the phone. He used a legit card that was his, his wife disputed the charge, and I'm screwed and haven't got a leg to stand on. They won't even give me the credit card details. PayPal just told me tuff shit, they don't have to notify me, just take the money. For this reason, I won't use PP except for stuff under $20-$30. Gary -----Original Message----- From: Patrick Carter [mailto:dpc2@XXXXXX] Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 12:50 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE FRAUD Ok thanks guys. The consinsous is to walk away from this deal. Should I even reply to offer him only 2 options? The paypal option or the www.escrow.com option. Or just walk away totally? Either way I am not going for that cashiers check deal. Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Kitchell" To: "Patrick Carter" ; Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 11:39 AM Subject: Re: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE FRAUD > DON'T DO IT. That is a scam. He will steal your > money. That person is clearly not a native english > speaker. > > Craigslist is full of them. > > > --- Patrick Carter wrote: > > With all the fraud talk latey I thought I would run > > this by you all. > > > > Ok is this fishy to anyone? I posted an ad to sell > > some pocket/mini bikes > > on craigs list. I get a responce from this guy, but > > the way he wants to go > > about the transaction is a little funny. Since we > > are talking about a $2000 > > refund wired back to him and two $900 bikes, rather > > be safe than be out > > $4000. > > > > If he gives me a cashiers check how soon would a > > bank know if it is phoney? > > Can cashiers check come back bounced since you have > > to have the cash the > > order the check? > > > > Opinions? Suggestions? > > > > thanks, > > Pat > > > > Read below: > > > > > > Jerry, > > I am a little confused. Just to clarify. You want > > 2 bikes for $1800. Your > > giving me $120 for running around. Your client will > > be giving me a cashiers > > check of $4000. I cash the check. Deduct $1920. > > Meet your shipper with > > the bikes and wire the remaining $2080 to you > > shipper using western union. > > > > My name info is: > > Patrick Carter > > #### street name > > Fairfax, VA 22033 > > 703-###-#### > > > > Just out of curiosity, where is your location? Is > > there a phone number I > > can reach you incase there are any other question, > > concerns, or problems? > > Can you please give me your clients information and > > your shippers > > information? > > > > Thanks, > > Pat > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "jerry rogers" > > To: "Patrick Carter" > > Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 3:02 AM > > Subject: payment and trust > > > > > > > Thanks for the mail i will buy the for > > $1800.Payment will be made via a > > cachiers check of $4000 by a client of mine in the > > state an amount oweing, > > so it can be cashed at any local outlets in your > > area.All i need from you > > is your full name and address including phone > > number so i can fax it to my > > client. Pickup arrangement will be made by my > > shipper, so as soon as you > > recieve payment you will deduct your actual amount > > and extra $120 for > > running around and wired the rest of the funs to my > > shipper via western > > union money transfer who will be at your location > > for the pick up. confirm > > this and get back to me with neccessary details. I > > await your response > > > Jerry > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Patrick Carter" > > > Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:06:44 -0400 > > > To: "jerry rogers" > > > Subject: Re: 2004 mini sport bike / pocket bike - > > $900 > > > > > > > Well call me and we can set up a time and place > > to make the transaction. > > > > The price is the same as in the ad $900 each. > > The condition is band > > new. > > > > No fuel has ever been added to the tank. I have > > many in stock. Just > > let me > > > > know what color you want. I have Red, Blue, > > Black, Yellow and Silver. > > > > > > > > 703-906-2906 > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Pat > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "jerry rogers" > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:10 PM > > > > Subject: 2004 mini sport bike / pocket bike - > > $900 > > > > > > > > > > > > > I Saw your advert and am highly interested in > > buying it, kindly get > > back > > > > to me with your last offering price and the > > present condition of the > > above > > > > mentioned item. > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > Rogers > > > > > -- > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Get your free email from > > http://mymail.dbzmail.com > > > > > > > > > > Powered by Outblaze > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Get your free email from http://mymail.dbzmail.com > > > > > > Powered by Outblaze > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. > http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/ > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 18:10:28 2004 Reply-To: "Patrick Carter" From: "Patrick Carter" To: Subject: Re: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE FRAUD Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 18:09:33 -0400 Damn. I never heard that before. That seems messed up. That should be paypals problem if they used a fake card or disputted the charge. And not even tell you the basis of the dispute. Sucks. Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Foreman" To: "'Patrick Carter'" ; Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 6:06 PM Subject: RE: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE FRAUD > Don't trust PayPal. I had someone order something from me, shipped it, and > two months later, PayPal takes the money out of my account, with no > notification, and said the person used a fake card. So I'm out the item. > Called the guy's phone no, and he answered and said he would straighten it > out. Then he stopped answering the phone. He used a legit card that was > his, his wife disputed the charge, and I'm screwed and haven't got a leg to > stand on. They won't even give me the credit card details. > > PayPal just told me tuff shit, they don't have to notify me, just take the > money. > > For this reason, I won't use PP except for stuff under $20-$30. > > Gary > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick Carter [mailto:dpc2@XXXXXX] > Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 12:50 PM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE FRAUD > > Ok thanks guys. The consinsous is to walk away from this deal. Should I > even reply to offer him only 2 options? The paypal option or the > www.escrow.com option. Or just walk away totally? > > Either way I am not going for that cashiers check deal. > > Pat > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Kitchell" > To: "Patrick Carter" ; > Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 11:39 AM > Subject: Re: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE FRAUD > > > > DON'T DO IT. That is a scam. He will steal your > > money. That person is clearly not a native english > > speaker. > > > > Craigslist is full of them. > > > > > > --- Patrick Carter wrote: > > > With all the fraud talk latey I thought I would run > > > this by you all. > > > > > > Ok is this fishy to anyone? I posted an ad to sell > > > some pocket/mini bikes > > > on craigs list. I get a responce from this guy, but > > > the way he wants to go > > > about the transaction is a little funny. Since we > > > are talking about a $2000 > > > refund wired back to him and two $900 bikes, rather > > > be safe than be out > > > $4000. > > > > > > If he gives me a cashiers check how soon would a > > > bank know if it is phoney? > > > Can cashiers check come back bounced since you have > > > to have the cash the > > > order the check? > > > > > > Opinions? Suggestions? > > > > > > thanks, > > > Pat > > > > > > Read below: > > > > > > > > > Jerry, > > > I am a little confused. Just to clarify. You want > > > 2 bikes for $1800. Your > > > giving me $120 for running around. Your client will > > > be giving me a cashiers > > > check of $4000. I cash the check. Deduct $1920. > > > Meet your shipper with > > > the bikes and wire the remaining $2080 to you > > > shipper using western union. > > > > > > My name info is: > > > Patrick Carter > > > #### street name > > > Fairfax, VA 22033 > > > 703-###-#### > > > > > > Just out of curiosity, where is your location? Is > > > there a phone number I > > > can reach you incase there are any other question, > > > concerns, or problems? > > > Can you please give me your clients information and > > > your shippers > > > information? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Pat > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "jerry rogers" > > > To: "Patrick Carter" > > > Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 3:02 AM > > > Subject: payment and trust > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the mail i will buy the for > > > $1800.Payment will be made via a > > > cachiers check of $4000 by a client of mine in the > > > state an amount oweing, > > > so it can be cashed at any local outlets in your > > > area.All i need from you > > > is your full name and address including phone > > > number so i can fax it to my > > > client. Pickup arrangement will be made by my > > > shipper, so as soon as you > > > recieve payment you will deduct your actual amount > > > and extra $120 for > > > running around and wired the rest of the funs to my > > > shipper via western > > > union money transfer who will be at your location > > > for the pick up. confirm > > > this and get back to me with neccessary details. I > > > await your response > > > > Jerry > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Patrick Carter" > > > > Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:06:44 -0400 > > > > To: "jerry rogers" > > > > Subject: Re: 2004 mini sport bike / pocket bike - > > > $900 > > > > > > > > > Well call me and we can set up a time and place > > > to make the transaction. > > > > > The price is the same as in the ad $900 each. > > > The condition is band > > > new. > > > > > No fuel has ever been added to the tank. I have > > > many in stock. Just > > > let me > > > > > know what color you want. I have Red, Blue, > > > Black, Yellow and Silver. > > > > > > > > > > 703-906-2906 > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Pat > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "jerry rogers" > > > > > To: > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:10 PM > > > > > Subject: 2004 mini sport bike / pocket bike - > > > $900 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I Saw your advert and am highly interested in > > > buying it, kindly get > > > back > > > > > to me with your last offering price and the > > > present condition of the > > > above > > > > > mentioned item. > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > Rogers > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Get your free email from > > > http://mymail.dbzmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Powered by Outblaze > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Get your free email from http://mymail.dbzmail.com > > > > > > > > Powered by Outblaze > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. > > http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/ > > > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 14 18:20:54 2004 Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 18:20:47 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE FRAUD -----Original Message----- From: Patrick Carter Damn. I never heard that before. That seems messed up. That should be paypals problem if they used a fake card or disputted the charge. And not even tell you the basis of the dispute. Sucks. Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Foreman" > Don't trust PayPal. I had someone order something from me, shipped it, and > two months later, PayPal takes the money out of my account, with no > notification, and said the person used a fake card. So I'm out the item. > Called the guy's phone no, and he answered and said he would straighten it > out. Then he stopped answering the phone. He used a legit card that was > his, his wife disputed the charge, and I'm screwed and haven't got a leg to > stand on. They won't even give me the credit card details. > > PayPal just told me tuff shit, they don't have to notify me, just take the > money. > > For this reason, I won't use PP except for stuff under $20-$30. > > Gary > Count me as a somewhat dissatisfied PayPal customer. They've gotten greedy since they were bought out by eBay. I need to change my eBay payment policies I guess. Increasingly, people are paying for their PayPal transactions with credit cards. The seller, not the buyer, gets dunned with a fee for these credit card transactions, effectively reducing the "take" from an auction. Moreover, I "won" an eBay auction for a ScottOiler (obl. moto content) offered for sale by a Brit and PayPal charged me a pretty hefty commission (much more than a standard credit card) on top of the exchange rate from dollars to pounds sterling. I would have been better off sending an international money order via snail mail. Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat May 15 08:42:26 2004 Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 08:42:21 -0400 From: Skip Smith To: Mark Kitchell CC: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Plastic Painting any body shop that can paint Saturn parts should be able to take car of it for you. Mark Kitchell wrote: > > Who paints fairings around here? > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2' > http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat May 15 08:50:35 2004 Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 08:50:31 -0400 From: Skip Smith To: rich hall CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Toll Not Paid rich hall wrote: > > Changing vehicles is in the rules for EZ Pass. Don't know why. Mom is a > stickler for rules, she put me on their pass because of this. > Back when I commuted on the toll road I'd be upset if you broke at all for > the plaza. They'll pick up well over the posted 35, I've heard. > EZ Pass's indicator for tolls being paid is a lot closer to the both, > therefore you don't have as long to see it. A friend of mine says, "they'll pick up at 113mph, and if you do that a couple days in a row, they'll set up a speed trap." From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat May 15 12:37:22 2004 Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 12:37:09 -0400 From: Brian Roach To: Mark Kitchell CC: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Plastic Painting Mark Kitchell wrote: > Who paints fairings around here? Mark - We do, and can usually arrange pickup and delivery to NoVA ... what are you looking to have done? - Bri -- http://www.speedwerks.com The one-stop shop for all your motorcycling needs! (302) 672 - 7223 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat May 15 19:24:51 2004 Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 19:24:38 -0400 From: Skip Smith To: Patrick Carter CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE FRAUD dude. get the cashier's check, and hang it on your wall. I've got 3 for a total of $19,000. It makes a great conversation started. :~) Patrick Carter wrote: > > Ok thanks guys. The consinsous is to walk away from this deal. Should I > even reply to offer him only 2 options? The paypal option or the > www.escrow.com option. Or just walk away totally? > > Either way I am not going for that cashiers check deal. > > Pat > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Kitchell" > To: "Patrick Carter" ; > Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 11:39 AM > Subject: Re: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE FRAUD > > > DON'T DO IT. That is a scam. He will steal your > > money. That person is clearly not a native english > > speaker. > > > > Craigslist is full of them. > > > > > > --- Patrick Carter wrote: > > > With all the fraud talk latey I thought I would run > > > this by you all. > > > > > > Ok is this fishy to anyone? I posted an ad to sell > > > some pocket/mini bikes > > > on craigs list. I get a responce from this guy, but > > > the way he wants to go > > > about the transaction is a little funny. Since we > > > are talking about a $2000 > > > refund wired back to him and two $900 bikes, rather > > > be safe than be out > > > $4000. > > > > > > If he gives me a cashiers check how soon would a > > > bank know if it is phoney? > > > Can cashiers check come back bounced since you have > > > to have the cash the > > > order the check? > > > > > > Opinions? Suggestions? > > > > > > thanks, > > > Pat > > > > > > Read below: > > > > > > > > > Jerry, > > > I am a little confused. Just to clarify. You want > > > 2 bikes for $1800. Your > > > giving me $120 for running around. Your client will > > > be giving me a cashiers > > > check of $4000. I cash the check. Deduct $1920. > > > Meet your shipper with > > > the bikes and wire the remaining $2080 to you > > > shipper using western union. > > > > > > My name info is: > > > Patrick Carter > > > #### street name > > > Fairfax, VA 22033 > > > 703-###-#### > > > > > > Just out of curiosity, where is your location? Is > > > there a phone number I > > > can reach you incase there are any other question, > > > concerns, or problems? > > > Can you please give me your clients information and > > > your shippers > > > information? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Pat > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "jerry rogers" > > > To: "Patrick Carter" > > > Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 3:02 AM > > > Subject: payment and trust > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the mail i will buy the for > > > $1800.Payment will be made via a > > > cachiers check of $4000 by a client of mine in the > > > state an amount oweing, > > > so it can be cashed at any local outlets in your > > > area.All i need from you > > > is your full name and address including phone > > > number so i can fax it to my > > > client. Pickup arrangement will be made by my > > > shipper, so as soon as you > > > recieve payment you will deduct your actual amount > > > and extra $120 for > > > running around and wired the rest of the funs to my > > > shipper via western > > > union money transfer who will be at your location > > > for the pick up. confirm > > > this and get back to me with neccessary details. I > > > await your response > > > > Jerry > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Patrick Carter" > > > > Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:06:44 -0400 > > > > To: "jerry rogers" > > > > Subject: Re: 2004 mini sport bike / pocket bike - > > > $900 > > > > > > > > > Well call me and we can set up a time and place > > > to make the transaction. > > > > > The price is the same as in the ad $900 each. > > > The condition is band > > > new. > > > > > No fuel has ever been added to the tank. I have > > > many in stock. Just > > > let me > > > > > know what color you want. I have Red, Blue, > > > Black, Yellow and Silver. > > > > > > > > > > 703-906-2906 > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Pat > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "jerry rogers" > > > > > To: > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:10 PM > > > > > Subject: 2004 mini sport bike / pocket bike - > > > $900 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I Saw your advert and am highly interested in > > > buying it, kindly get > > > back > > > > > to me with your last offering price and the > > > present condition of the > > > above > > > > > mentioned item. > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > Rogers > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Get your free email from > > > http://mymail.dbzmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Powered by Outblaze > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Get your free email from http://mymail.dbzmail.com > > > > > > > > Powered by Outblaze > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. > > http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/ > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat May 15 21:27:18 2004 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 21:27:03 EDT Subject: Stolen tag To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Well folks, my day started off shitty. I went down to my buildings parking garage to get the bike to head out to catch a movie and, guess what I find, the license plate GONE from the back of my bike. Not only mine but, the GoldWing parked beside me is also missing his tag. It happened sometime between Tuesday night and this morning. Thing is, when I went out on it Tueday night, one screw was missing from the bracket. I originally thought it just fell out somewhere. Now I'm wondering if I interrupted someone stealing my plate. I had a spare screw in my car's toolbox, put it in and didn't think about it again. Called the cops and filed a police report. Headed out to Springfield Mall DMV, waited 30 minutes, paid $10 and got a new tag and stickers. Still went and caught my movie (Van Helsing, excellent BTW) but, that little incident threw off the rest of my day. If this one disappears I guess I'll have to take it off every time I'm not riding the bike. Anyway, if you're out riding and spot a VA MC tag number 92921, call the cops and tell them you've found a bike with a stolen plate. I'm gonna miss that plate. It was very easy to remember. :-( Scooter (2000 r/w/b YZF R6) AFRA #17 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun May 16 01:43:35 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 01:43:15 EDT Subject: Re: Stolen tag To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 5/15/2004 9:27:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ScooterFZR@XXXXXX writes: > If this one disappears I guess I'll have to take it > off every time I'm not riding the bike. Or you could install an alarm. It is a _long_ way from perfect, but will keep the kiddies at bay. (I finally installed one last week after my bike was "fiddled" with several times at work. Hate the damn things, but I hate having my bike messed with more.) John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun May 16 15:20:43 2004 From: "Paul Wilson" To: , Subject: Re: Stolen tag Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 15:18:41 -0400 You could try some theft-resistant license plate bolts. They sell them at my neighborhood hardware. Paul in DC -- www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] ----- Original Message ----- From: > Well folks, my day started off shitty. I went down to my buildings parking > garage to get the bike to head out to catch a movie and, guess what I find, the > license plate GONE from the back of my bike. ..... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun May 16 20:35:20 2004 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 20:35:06 EDT Subject: Re: Stolen tag To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 5/15/2004 11:34:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bob@XXXXXX writes: Get some tamper resistant screws: http://www.brycefastener.com/support.htm http://www.tamperproof.com/security-Fasteners.cfm Or do a google search on: screws "tamper resistant" Bob Meyer Thanks. I'll check them out. Scooter (2000 r/w/b YZF R6) AFRA #17 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun May 16 20:36:47 2004 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 20:36:38 EDT Subject: Re: Stolen tag To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 5/16/2004 1:43:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX writes: In a message dated 5/15/2004 9:27:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ScooterFZR@XXXXXX writes: > If this one disappears I guess I'll have to take it > off every time I'm not riding the bike. Or you could install an alarm. It is a _long_ way from perfect, but will keep the kiddies at bay. (I finally installed one last week after my bike was "fiddled" with several times at work. Hate the damn things, but I hate having my bike messed with more.) John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Thanks. Been thinking about that also. I never did before since I park in a parking garage. Scooter (2000 r/w/b YZF R6) AFRA #17 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 17 07:46:51 2004 From: "John White" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Giving us a bad rep.. Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 07:35:33 -0400 Stories like this really piss me off! http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/Northeast/05/16/parade.accident.ap/index.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 17 09:12:51 2004 Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 09:14:13 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Dan Brown Subject: Enforcement activities? Did anyone go out over 211 yesterday? I was coming home (in the car) from a weekend outing with my wife and came down off of the parkway, heading East. We were greeted by several VA state police officers who appeared to have some sort of checkpoint setup down by where Cooter's place used to be. The whole line of cars I was with were not stopped. I'm guessing that they were looking for motorcycles and checking paperwork, but they didn't appear to have any customers while I was there. Anyone have any idea what was going on? -- Resist or Serve From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 17 09:51:33 2004 Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 09:51:27 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: Giving us a bad rep.. At 07:35 AM 5/17/2004, John White wrote: >Stories like this really piss me off! Why? From the brief article, it sounds like he was in a parade. I'm sure the crowd was cheering him for the other wheelies he pulled while the police looked away. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles. One who does not know the enemy but knows himself will sometimes win, sometimes lose. One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself will be in danger in every battle. - Sun Tzu From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 17 09:57:42 2004 Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 06:57:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Giving us a bad rep.. To: Troutman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX i think he meant he was tired of squids like this giving bikers capable of riding a controlled wheelie a bad name. remember, stuntaz, you are representing all of us out there! --- Troutman wrote: > At 07:35 AM 5/17/2004, John White wrote: > >Stories like this really piss me off! > > Why? From the brief article, it sounds like he was in a > parade. I'm sure > the crowd was cheering him for the other wheelies he > pulled while the > police looked away. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 17 09:58:33 2004 From: "Sean Steele" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 09:58:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Giving us a bad rep.. I'd tend to agree -- I file this under the same sub-heading as something like "Shriner Mini Car Careens Off Parade Route, Collides with Spectators". What gets me are the wheelies and stoppies and general shenanigans on public roads. -Sean Troutman wrote: > At 07:35 AM 5/17/2004, John White wrote: > >> Stories like this really piss me off! > > Why? From the brief article, it sounds like he was in a parade. I'm > sure the crowd was cheering him for the other wheelies he pulled while > the police looked away. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 17 11:31:05 2004 Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 06:13:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Product Review: Kisan Trailblazer To: DC Cycles I recently purchased the Kisan Trailblazer for my 1991 VFR. When replacing a brake light bulb this winter I noticed how dim the entire set-up was. I researched some brighter bulbs on the net which led me to Kisan. The Trailblazer offers rapidly flashing brakelights which flash at a faster rate when the brake is initally activated and within 4 seconds revert to full on (if the brake remains activated). This is NOT done via an installed electronic box. Instead, Kisan makes a completely new bulb housing that fits right into any VFR's standard brakelight assembly. The bulb is a standard halogen which fits into a circuitboard/bulb housing. Installation is simple: remove old bulb, install new bulb. According to Kisan, the halogen will not burn too hot (as some halogens do). They reported only one plastic melting as a result of use of this product. Since the VFR requires two bulbs, the price is $99.99 (includes extra halogen bulb replacement) but for a single bulb the price is $59.99. The unit can easily be removed if the bike is sold. No affiliation with Kisan, YMMV. Mark http://www.kisantech.com/kisanWeb3/frameSample.htm __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 17 11:55:42 2004 From: "Rob Sharp" To: "Sean Steele" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Giving us a bad rep.. Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 11:57:20 -0400 The next person who says "shenanigans" is going to get pistol whipped!! - Super Troopers. Rob On Mon, 17 May 2004 09:58:12 -0400, Sean Steele wrote > I'd tend to agree -- I file this under the same sub-heading as > something like "Shriner Mini Car Careens Off Parade Route, Collides > with Spectators". > > What gets me are the wheelies and stoppies and general shenanigans > on public roads. > > -Sean > > Troutman wrote: > > > At 07:35 AM 5/17/2004, John White wrote: > > > >> Stories like this really piss me off! > > > > Why? From the brief article, it sounds like he was in a parade. I'm > > sure the crowd was cheering him for the other wheelies he pulled while > > the police looked away. -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 17 11:58:03 2004 From: Richard Westbrook To: Patrick Carter , "'Skip Smith'" Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE FRAUD Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 11:54:15 -0400 This is also great for impressing the ladies (or guys). Leave a couple of $10,000 checks on your coffee table or pull one out of the cushions in the couch and just say "Gees, not another one of these!" -Rich > ---------- > From: Skip Smith > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 7:24 PM > To: Patrick Carter > Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE FRAUD > > dude. get the cashier's check, and hang it on your wall. > > I've got 3 for a total of $19,000. It makes a great conversation > started. :~) > > Patrick Carter wrote: > > > > Ok thanks guys. The consinsous is to walk away from this deal. Should > I > > even reply to offer him only 2 options? The paypal option or the > > www.escrow.com option. Or just walk away totally? > > > > Either way I am not going for that cashiers check deal. > > > > Pat > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Mark Kitchell" > > To: "Patrick Carter" ; > > Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 11:39 AM > > Subject: Re: payment and trust <---IS THIS SAFE? POSSIBLE FRAUD > > > > > DON'T DO IT. That is a scam. He will steal your > > > money. That person is clearly not a native english > > > speaker. > > > > > > Craigslist is full of them. > > > > > > > > > --- Patrick Carter wrote: > > > > With all the fraud talk latey I thought I would run > > > > this by you all. > > > > > > > > Ok is this fishy to anyone? I posted an ad to sell > > > > some pocket/mini bikes > > > > on craigs list. I get a responce from this guy, but > > > > the way he wants to go > > > > about the transaction is a little funny. Since we > > > > are talking about a $2000 > > > > refund wired back to him and two $900 bikes, rather > > > > be safe than be out > > > > $4000. > > > > > > > > If he gives me a cashiers check how soon would a > > > > bank know if it is phoney? > > > > Can cashiers check come back bounced since you have > > > > to have the cash the > > > > order the check? > > > > > > > > Opinions? Suggestions? > > > > > > > > thanks, > > > > Pat > > > > > > > > Read below: > > > > > > > > > > > > Jerry, > > > > I am a little confused. Just to clarify. You want > > > > 2 bikes for $1800. Your > > > > giving me $120 for running around. Your client will > > > > be giving me a cashiers > > > > check of $4000. I cash the check. Deduct $1920. > > > > Meet your shipper with > > > > the bikes and wire the remaining $2080 to you > > > > shipper using western union. > > > > > > > > My name info is: > > > > Patrick Carter > > > > #### street name > > > > Fairfax, VA 22033 > > > > 703-###-#### > > > > > > > > Just out of curiosity, where is your location? Is > > > > there a phone number I > > > > can reach you incase there are any other question, > > > > concerns, or problems? > > > > Can you please give me your clients information and > > > > your shippers > > > > information? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Pat > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "jerry rogers" > > > > To: "Patrick Carter" > > > > Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 3:02 AM > > > > Subject: payment and trust > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the mail i will buy the for > > > > $1800.Payment will be made via a > > > > cachiers check of $4000 by a client of mine in the > > > > state an amount oweing, > > > > so it can be cashed at any local outlets in your > > > > area.All i need from you > > > > is your full name and address including phone > > > > number so i can fax it to my > > > > client. Pickup arrangement will be made by my > > > > shipper, so as soon as you > > > > recieve payment you will deduct your actual amount > > > > and extra $120 for > > > > running around and wired the rest of the funs to my > > > > shipper via western > > > > union money transfer who will be at your location > > > > for the pick up. confirm > > > > this and get back to me with neccessary details. I > > > > await your response > > > > > Jerry > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Patrick Carter" > > > > > Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:06:44 -0400 > > > > > To: "jerry rogers" > > > > > Subject: Re: 2004 mini sport bike / pocket bike - > > > > $900 > > > > > > > > > > > Well call me and we can set up a time and place > > > > to make the transaction. > > > > > > The price is the same as in the ad $900 each. > > > > The condition is band > > > > new. > > > > > > No fuel has ever been added to the tank. I have > > > > many in stock. Just > > > > let me > > > > > > know what color you want. I have Red, Blue, > > > > Black, Yellow and Silver. > > > > > > > > > > > > 703-906-2906 > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Pat > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: "jerry rogers" > > > > > > To: > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:10 PM > > > > > > Subject: 2004 mini sport bike / pocket bike - > > > > $900 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I Saw your advert and am highly interested in > > > > buying it, kindly get > > > > back > > > > > > to me with your last offering price and the > > > > present condition of the > > > > above > > > > > > mentioned item. > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > > Rogers > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > Get your free email from > > > > http://mymail.dbzmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Powered by Outblaze > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Get your free email from http://mymail.dbzmail.com > > > > > > > > > > Powered by Outblaze > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. > > > http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/ > > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 17 12:34:43 2004 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" Subject: Stolen tag Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 12:36:43 -0400 I attached my tags with SS Allen head bolts and nylon insert nuts. Not perfect but the jerk with a screwdriver will move on to the ones attached with screws. payment and trust Skip Said: "dude. get the cashier's check, and hang it on your wall. I've got 3 for a total of $19,000. It makes a great conversation started. :~" Kewl, heah yew go: -----Original Message----- From: wangqin_4@XXXXXX [mailto:wangqin_4@XXXXXX] Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 9:42 AM Subject: PLEASE ASSIST SINCERE ASSOCIATE REQUIRED MR. WANG QIN HANG SENG BANK LTD. DES VOEUX RD. BRANCH, CENTRAL HONG KONG, HONK KONG. Dear Sir, Let me start by introducing myself. I am Mr. Wang Qin credit officer of the Hang Seng Bank Ltd. I have a concealed business suggestion for you. Before the U.S and Iraqi war our client General. Ibrahim Moussa who was with the Iraqi forces and also business man made a numbered fixed deposit for 18 calendar months, with a value of Twenty millions Five Hundred Thousand United State Dollars only in my branch. Upon maturity several notice was sent to him, even during the war early this year. Again after the war another notification was sent and still no response came from him. We later find out that the General and his family had been killed during the war in bomb blast that hit their home. After further investigation it was also discovered that Gen. Ibrahim Moussa did not declare any next of kin in his official papers including the paper work of his bank deposit. And he also confided in me the last time he was at my office that no one except me knew of his deposit in my bank. So, Twenty millions Five Hundred Thousand United State Dollars is still lying in my bank and no one will ever come forward to claim it. What bothers me most is that according to the to the laws of my country at the expiration 3 years the funds will revert to the ownership of the Hong Kong Government if nobody applies to claim the funds. Against this backdrop, my suggestion to you is that I will like you as a foreigner to stand as the next of kin to Gen. Ibrahim Moussa so that you will be able to receive his funds. WHAT IS TO BE DONE: I want you to know that I have had everything planned out so that we shall come out successful. I have contacted an attorney that will prepare the necessary document that will back you up as the next of kin to Gen. Ibrahim Moussa, all that is required from you at this stage is for you to provide me with your Full Names and Address so that the attorney can commence his job. After you have been made the next of kin, the attorney will also fill in for claims on your behalf and secure the necessary approval and letter of probate in your favor for the move of the funds to an account that will be provided by you. There is no risk involved at all in the matter as we are going adopt a legalized method and the attorney will prepare all the necessary documents. Please endeavor to observe utmost discretion in all matters concerning this issue. Once the funds have been transferred to your nominated bank account we shall share in the ratio of 70% for me, 25% for you and 5% for any expenses incurred during the course of this operation. Should you be interested please send me your full names and current residential address for easy communication and I will provide you with more details of this operation. Your earliest response to this letter will be appreciated Kind Regards Mr. Wang Qin __________________________________________________ Broadband from an unbeatable )B£15.99! http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadband/home.html?code=SM-NL-11AM From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 17 12:45:10 2004 Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 09:45:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: "Custer,Carl" , "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" Subject: Re: Stolen tag -----Original Message----- From: "Custer, Carl" I attached my tags with SS Allen head bolts and nylon insert nuts. Not perfect but the jerk with a screwdriver will move on to the ones attached with screws. ------ I just use regular hex-head bolts on my KLR. I figure not too many thieves carry two wrenches with them. Anyhoo, there are those sticky-fingered so and so's out there that will steal anything that not nailed down, and a goodly percentage of those things that are. I read that in the early days of the subways in NYC in the early 1900s, electricity was still something of a novelty and the subways used thousands of the new-fangled light bulbs. Naturally, when presented with targets of opportunity, people started helping themselves. So, the subway installed special reverse threaded sockets and reverse threaded bulbs to put a stop to it. Steal the bulb, but you couldn't use it anywhere else. Ain't human nature grand? Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 17 13:37:58 2004 Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 13:39:14 -0400 To: Paul Wilson , "Custer,Carl" , "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Stolen tag At 09:45 AM 5/17/04 -0700, Paul Wilson wrote: >Anyhoo, there are those sticky-fingered so and so's out there that will steal anything that not nailed down, and a goodly percentage of those things that are. I used to know a guy whose motto was "Anything not nailed down is mine. Anything I can pry loose is not nailed down." May he rest in peace... >Ain't human nature grand? More like sub-human nature. Humans don't do that sort of thing. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 17 14:32:09 2004 Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 09:21:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: REALLY need some help posting Bike Night Flyers To: DC Cycles I really need some help posting Bike Night flyers today or tomorrow. If anyone can post at a local shop, please email me ASAP. Poster can be printed from: http://www.geocities.com/bikenight/bikenight0504.pdf OR http://www.geocities.com/bikenight/ Also, has anyone cross posted on other Moto lists? Please let me know. Mark __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 17 14:46:10 2004 Subject: RE: REALLY need some help posting Bike Night Flyers Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 14:50:11 -0400 From: "Julian Halton" To: "Mark Kitchell" , "DC Cycles" Yup Mike.... Told everyone I know Posted to dcsportbikes.com My suggestions... Let it be known at the waterfront, the gas station, and barnes and noble in rockville Thursday night. I am tending bar Thursday or I would head up there myself.. -----Original Message----- From: Mark Kitchell [mailto:markkitchell@XXXXXX] Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 12:22 PM To: DC Cycles Subject: REALLY need some help posting Bike Night Flyers I really need some help posting Bike Night flyers today or tomorrow. If anyone can post at a local shop, please email me ASAP. Poster can be printed from: http://www.geocities.com/bikenight/bikenight0504.pdf OR http://www.geocities.com/bikenight/ Also, has anyone cross posted on other Moto lists? Please let me know. Mark __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 17 16:08:16 2004 Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 16:07:52 -0400 To: "DC Cycles" From: Troutman Subject: Janklow Released Today http://www.billingsgazette.com/index.php?id=1&display=rednews/2004/05/17/build/nation/48-janklow.inc 100 days and almost $11k I wonder if Randy Scott's family is filing a civil suit for wrongful death? ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles. One who does not know the enemy but knows himself will sometimes win, sometimes lose. One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself will be in danger in every battle. - Sun Tzu From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 17 22:11:08 2004 Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 22:09:17 -0400 Subject: Tail Blazer downside From: Bob McKeithen To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I have had one for about three years now. The downside--the bulb is a single filament, so if it expires you have no lights to the rear-- brake or tail. Check it each time you mount up. Bob From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 17 22:30:25 2004 From: "lisagoddard" To: "dccycles" Subject: Bike Virginia? Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 22:34:34 -0400 Hi fellow cyclists/motorcyclists, Is anyone out there participating in the 2004, 17th annual Ride Virginia either as a bicyclist or motorcycle escort?? Lisa Goddard '95 VFR '97 GSXR 600 track bike '97 XR100, new! From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 18 05:31:45 2004 Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 05:29:55 -0400 Subject: H-D for sale--post for a pal From: Bob McKeithen To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX '97 FLHTCUI (Electra Glide Classic FI) 14,xxx miles Maroon and charcoal Fresh tires Fresh oil service P-M rear caliper Screamin' Eagle mufflers K&N intake system Extra Chrome stuff never rained on????? I know this bike --immaculate--located in Purcellville, Va this guy is an owner not a rider email me for phone # Bob From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 18 07:09:34 2004 Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 07:08:33 -0400 (EDT) From: dan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Moto Travel Website: Ghost Town On Fri, 2 Apr 2004, Mark Kitchell wrote: > Hello DC Cycles. I have been off the list for a while > but this has motivated me to join back up and share > with you. > > I just spent 20 minutes going through this website. I > can promise you, none of us has ever gone on rides > like this. > > http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/kiddofspeed/ > > Mark > I guess this one is going down as one of the better internet stories: http://www.uer.ca/forum_showthread.asp?fid=1&threadid=8951 and her update: http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/kiddofspeed/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 18 08:07:23 2004 From: Jim Shoemaker Subject: Re: Bike Virginia? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 08:07:18 -0400 On Mon, 17 May 2004 22:34:34 -0400 "lisagoddard" wrote: > Is anyone out there participating in the 2004, 17th annual Ride Virginia > either as a bicyclist or motorcycle escort?? > Yep. I think this'll be my 8th Bike VA, all of which have been by bicycle. I think moto escort would be fun, too. --Jim From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 18 10:00:37 2004 Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 10:00:28 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Pa. has bad case of gas.... Uh, make that a case of bad gas. http://www.nbc10.com/news/3249116/detail.html Bad Gas Suspected Of Damaging Cars Pennsylvania Lacks Fuel Quality Law POSTED: 12:10 am EDT April 29, 2004 KNOX, Pa. -- Sandy Myers' 2003 Hyundai Sonata was towed twice before mechanics found contaminated gas had clogged up the fuel filter and damaged the fuel pump, costing her $757 for repairs. The culprit was a mysterious white, powdery residue that Myers described as a type of calcium buildup. In Pennsylvania, Ohio and West Virginia, dozens of people are complaining of contaminated fuel in their vehicles, prompting two state agencies to launch separate probes. Fuel quality officials in West Virginia have visited the northern panhandle to collect samples, and the Pennsylvania Attorney General's Office has received 34 complaints and more than 100 inquiries. See also: http://www.thederrick.com/stories/04302004-5004.shtml http://www.fox66.tv/news/default.asp?mode=shownews&id=4276 Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 18 10:03:50 2004 Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 10:03:44 -0400 From: "Chris Norloff" Reply-To: To: "DC Cycles" , Troutman Subject: RE: Janklow Released Today If they do sue, we'll likely be paying the bills. U.S. Attorney Tom Heffelfinger has decided that Janklow was "on duty" when he killed Scott - so the Federal Gov't is now the defendant and taxpayers will pay for Janklow's actions. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,114284,00.html Chris ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Troutman Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 16:07:52 -0400 >http://www.billingsgazette.com/index.php?id=1&display=rednews/2004/05/17/build/nation/48-janklow.inc > >100 days and almost $11k > >I wonder if Randy Scott's family is filing a civil suit for wrongful death? > > >___________________________________________ > Mike Troutman > http://www.troutman.org/vfr > 1997 Honda VFR 750 > AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ > NMA http://www.motorists.org > >One who knows the enemy and knows himself >will not be in danger in a hundred battles. >One who does not know the enemy but knows himself >will sometimes win, sometimes lose. >One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself >will be in danger in every battle. > - Sun Tzu > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 18 13:41:20 2004 Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 10:27:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Lisa Goddard, please email me! To: DC Cycles Thanks __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 18 14:30:47 2004 From: "Gary Foreman" To: "'DC Cycles'" Subject: Does this look familular? Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 14:33:47 -0400 I have an FJ1100/1200 Ported and Polished head for sale. I got an email last night asking about it, and gave the guy a price. Here's what I got today: Goodday Gary, Thanks a lot for the mail, sorry i couldn't get back to Immediately. i am still very much intrested in purchasing your FJ1100/FJ1200 Head i will offer you $1,500,i am okay with it,Concerning the payment ,A very good client of in the state is oweing me the sum of $6,500 US dollars only, he will issue out a certified cashier check drawn in a US Funds that you can cashed at your Bank or at Any cashing point in your location. As soon as you recieved the payment,take it to cashing point and cash it Immediately get the check cashed there,and you hold out your amount, And send the Excess funds which it is balance to my International Shipping Agent That will be for the picking up at your Location.I hope i can trust you with my balance that will be sent to my shipping Agent . Do get back to me with your contact details like this: Name you want on check: Home Address: City: State: Country: Phone Number/Office Number: so that payment will be made out to you Immediately..bye and have great day. Regards to you and your family. I look forward to hearing from you Today. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 18 15:02:12 2004 Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 15:02:10 -0400 To: "DC Cycles" From: Troutman Subject: Moto Blog Last week someone was asking about moto blogs. I noticed this today. http://motorcycle-blog.com/ it was linked from http://blogs.motorbiker.org/blogs.nsf ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles. One who does not know the enemy but knows himself will sometimes win, sometimes lose. One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself will be in danger in every battle. - Sun Tzu From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 18 15:17:06 2004 Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 15:17:27 -0400 To: "DC Cycles" From: Troutman Subject: These are the news stories that piss ME off ... http://www.thedailyreview.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=11668288&BRD=2276&PAG=461&dept_id=465049&rfi=6 "I didn't see him" says 82 yo driver http://www.ktbs.com/news-detail.html?cityid=1&hid=23873 15 year old in street drag hits injures multiple occupants I have two cicadas on my desk. I am considering racing them and eating the loser. - slow work day ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles. One who does not know the enemy but knows himself will sometimes win, sometimes lose. One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself will be in danger in every battle. - Sun Tzu From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 18 15:21:48 2004 Subject: RE: Moto Blog Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 15:25:51 -0400 From: "Julian Halton" To: "Troutman" , "DC Cycles" www.strikingviking.net The ultimate blog The ultimate life -----Original Message----- From: Troutman [mailto:mike@XXXXXX] Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 3:02 PM To: DC Cycles Subject: Moto Blog Last week someone was asking about moto blogs. I noticed this today. http://motorcycle-blog.com/ it was linked from http://blogs.motorbiker.org/blogs.nsf ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles. One who does not know the enemy but knows himself will sometimes win, sometimes lose. One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself will be in danger in every battle. - Sun Tzu From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 18 15:21:51 2004 Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 15:22:11 -0400 To: "DC Cycles" From: Troutman Subject: NC considering repealing helmet law Individual rights are lost on the young as shown in this article. http://www.charlotte.com/mld/observer/news/opinion/8691611.htm?1c ...and I'm in my truck today. My bike was making a weird oscillating motion on the way home last night. I think it is in the front end - under acceleration it stopped doing it (lightening the front end I believe). I'll be stripping it down again tonight, then it is off to the dealer if I can't figure it out. In a related note, our grocery getter '97 Accord went in for service and they wanted almost $500 to replace the CV boots. Keep in mind, this is a $10 item on 4 wheels. I'll be doing THAT at home as well. /rip-off ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles. One who does not know the enemy but knows himself will sometimes win, sometimes lose. One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself will be in danger in every battle. - Sun Tzu From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 18 19:41:17 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 19:41:01 EDT Subject: Re: NC considering repealing helmet law To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 5/18/2004 3:22:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mike@XXXXXX writes: > I'll be stripping it down again tonight, then it is off to the > dealer if I can't figure it out. > FIRST! Check your tire pressure. This may seem simplistic, but I know of one instance where Honda wound up replacing an entire motorcycle that would not handle correctly even after factory reps checked it out (I saw the bike at a Honda facility) In the end it was just tire pressure. Everyone just assumed that it had been checked... New "bumper sticker" on the ST1100. "Eat right, stay fit, DIE ANYWAY!" John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 18 20:46:14 2004 Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 19:46:21 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, mike@XXXXXX From: Sean Jordan Subject: Chernobyl "Ghost Town" stories were false!!! Check out the following links . . . http://www.uer.ca/forum_showthread.asp?fid=1&threadid=8951 http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/kiddofspeed/ - Sean Jordan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue May 18 22:32:50 2004 Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 19:32:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Moto Blog To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I've been thinking of more like a slashbike forum than a blog or standard forum. A little more organized, news wise than an opinion forum as a blog implies. Carl --- Troutman wrote: > Last week someone was asking about moto blogs. I noticed this today. > > http://motorcycle-blog.com/ > > it was linked from http://blogs.motorbiker.org/blogs.nsf > > > ___________________________________________ > Mike Troutman > http://www.troutman.org/vfr > 1997 Honda VFR 750 > AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ > NMA http://www.motorists.org > > One who knows the enemy and knows himself > will not be in danger in a hundred battles. > One who does not know the enemy but knows himself > will sometimes win, sometimes lose. > One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself > will be in danger in every battle. > - Sun Tzu > ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 19 00:57:38 2004 Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 00:58:32 -0400 To: Sean Jordan , dc-cycles@XXXXXX, mike@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Chernobyl "Ghost Town" stories were false!!! At 07:46 PM 5/18/04 -0500, Sean Jordan wrote: >Check out the following links . . . > >http://www.uer.ca/forum_showthread.asp?fid=1&threadid=8951 > >http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/kiddofspeed/ Well, there are claims that they are false anyway. Who you gonna trust? -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 19 09:20:42 2004 From: "W.S." To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Bad EZ-Pass charges (was Pa. has bad case of gas....) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 09:20:12 -0400 Another headsup - from Sunday's WP Travel section - a little squib: On EZ-Pass bill ". . .we'd paid six times the normal fee ($3) to go through the Delaware toll plaza just south of the bridge . . . mistaken for a 16-axle tractor trailer. . . ." "Snafu" said Delaware River & Bay Authority and refunded $15. Careful out there. Bill S. / DC '99 VN750 > Please double check for winter air going into tires. Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From: Paul Wilson . . .snip Bad Gas Suspected Of Damaging Cars From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 19 09:49:03 2004 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Mike Bartman , Sean Jordan , dc-cycles@XXXXXX, mike@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Chernobyl "Ghost Town" stories were false!!! Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 09:50:46 -0400 Sounds like she is at least in trouble that she took a ride through the zone and then did a website about it. Rob On Wed, 19 May 2004 00:58:32 -0400, Mike Bartman wrote > At 07:46 PM 5/18/04 -0500, Sean Jordan wrote: > >Check out the following links . . . > > > >http://www.uer.ca/forum_showthread.asp?fid=1&threadid=8951 > > > >http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/kiddofspeed/ > > Well, there are claims that they are false anyway. Who you gonna trust? > > -- Mike B. > > '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non- > Harley folks) > > Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes > is better. -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 19 10:35:13 2004 From: "Sean Steele" To: "DC Cycles" Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 10:34:49 -0400 Subject: MetricBikes.com Any listers have purchase experience or reviews of MetricBikes.com? Their prices on apparel seem pretty good. -Sean Wash, DC '92 Seca II From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 19 11:06:13 2004 Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 08:05:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Bike Paint Advice To: DC Cycles Hopefully some of you have some insight. I have a 1991 VFR which was once pristine but years of city living has left it quite a sight. Scratched fairings, dented tank, faded paint, scratches from the Givi mounting hardware, etc. I decided this year to try and restore some of her glory. My first thought was to buy used fairing parts on Ebay. I do have a nice tank I got for $42 . However, my luck with fairings has not been so good. I just bought a 'perfect condition' right mid that was all scratched up. New fairing for the peices I need will cost me $800+ and won't even match with the existing sun damaged peices. This weekend I met with a guy (Kelvin) who was recommended by Dennis at Crossroads Cycles in Virginia. Dennis portrayed him as a home painter with good prices and good (not perfect) quality. I went to visit the guy and he does the work in his back yard. The paint job he had just done was very good. He also fixes broken plastic, which he really does wonders with. His ability to fix plastic is going to mean I do not have to buy anymore plastic. He recommends that rather than painting/repairing bits and peices, I should just repaint the entire bike (since the existing peices that are good have 10+ years of sun fading). Since I pretty much have all of the plastic peices I need, there will be almost no new plastic costs. His price to paint the entire bike (plastic and tank) is $600. This includes paint if I agree to use (my color choice of course) automotive paint from a local supplier. If I want to use Color-rite motorcycle-specific paint I need to make up the difference in cost ($150 or so). My question for the list is twofold: Does this seem like a good deal, assuming the quality is good (I am not expecting perfection, the bike is 10 years old and lives on the streets of DC)? Also, do you think I should go with the auto paint or pay extra for the Color-rite? Can I find an auto paint that is a similar red to Honda's Italian Red? Thanks, Mark PS: Also, has anyone used Kelvin, based out of Arlandria/Crystal City?? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 19 12:10:01 2004 From: Stephen Miller Subject: Re: Bike Paint Advice Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 12:10:07 -0400 To: DC Cycles Who cares about stock color on a 14-year old bike? Is it going to be in classic bike shows someday? I say you should pick whatever PPG color appeals to you, and forget about matching the stock color (I find PPG to be high quality at a slightly less shocking price than, say, House of Kolor). Be different. I'm not saying you should put a TZ tail section on the bike or spraybomb it different colors [nod in Chuck's direction], but quality paint on all the bodywork and tank would look very nice, even if Honda never used that particular color. If the guy is good enough, it might well look deeper and better than the original paint. On May 19, 2004, at 11:05 AM, Mark Kitchell wrote: > His price to paint the entire bike > (plastic and tank) is $600. This includes paint if I > agree to use (my color choice of course) automotive > paint from a local supplier. If I want to use > Color-rite motorcycle-specific paint I need to make up > the difference in cost ($150 or so). > > My question for the list is twofold: Does this seem > like a good deal, assuming the quality is good (I am > not expecting perfection, the bike is 10 years old and > lives on the streets of DC)? Also, do you think I > should go with the auto paint or pay extra for the > Color-rite? Can I find an auto paint that is a > similar red to Honda's Italian Red? > > Thanks, > > Mark > > PS: Also, has anyone used Kelvin, based out of > Arlandria/Crystal City?? > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. > http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/ > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 19 12:42:55 2004 Subject: RE: Bike Paint Advice Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 12:42:46 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "DC Cycles" Mark; I had my older Honda VF750 repainted by an auto-body shop in Portland. The job cost $700.00, but was low-balled, the estimator told me that the shop probably lost money on the job due to the amount of sanding and prep work required. I speced a nice deep red that came as stock on Volvo's, it looks quite similar to the Honda red, and it came in a epoxy paint formulation that did not require a clear top-coat. My goal was to be able to buff out minor scratches and potentially touch up the color myself without the hassle of a two-layer paint scheme. Has held up pretty well, but as I was warned, red is one of the colors that is prone to sunfading, so it is not as deep a red as when I took delivery of the parts. As another data point, I had another bike repainted by a reputable local painter down in Triangle (who subsequently stopped painting bikes). He charged $1100.00 for a gloss white pearl finish, very nice stuff, but took a coupld of tries due to some fish eyes in the finish after the first attempt. Did the paint prep in his garage, used a rented booth to shoot the color, and was experienced with a wide variety of custom finishes. I think I asked for a House of Kolor paint, but I honestly don't remember now. Price you were quoted seems like a good deal, assuming you're satisfied with the job... ;-/ Ask to see some other jobs he's done, get a reference that you can call, and make your decision based on your gut feel. If you don't trust him to do a good job, odds are you won't be satisfied no matter how perfect it turns out. Also, I think Stephen is absolutely correct, use this as an opportunity to pick a color you'll like, even if it's just another shade of red. Porsche's Guard Red is a pretty spiffy color, or Toyota's Ticket-Me Red... ;-) Or go with another color from Honda's line, like the yellow, the blue (only offered on VFRs in Europe) or even the Asphalt Black (gray?) optional on this year's model VFR. I'd just use the auto paints, but the price bump for a premium option doesn't seem excessive. Robert -----Original Message----- From: Stephen Miller [mailto:freecat@XXXXXX] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 12:10 PM To: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Bike Paint Advice Who cares about stock color on a 14-year old bike? Is it going to be in classic bike shows someday? I say you should pick whatever PPG color appeals to you, and forget about matching the stock color (I find PPG to be high quality at a slightly less shocking price than, say, House of Kolor). Be different. I'm not saying you should put a TZ tail section on the bike or spraybomb it different colors [nod in Chuck's direction], but quality paint on all the bodywork and tank would look very nice, even if Honda never used that particular color. If the guy is good enough, it might well look deeper and better than the original paint. On May 19, 2004, at 11:05 AM, Mark Kitchell wrote: > His price to paint the entire bike > (plastic and tank) is $600. This includes paint if I > agree to use (my color choice of course) automotive > paint from a local supplier. If I want to use > Color-rite motorcycle-specific paint I need to make up > the difference in cost ($150 or so). > > My question for the list is twofold: Does this seem > like a good deal, assuming the quality is good (I am > not expecting perfection, the bike is 10 years old and > lives on the streets of DC)? Also, do you think I > should go with the auto paint or pay extra for the > Color-rite? Can I find an auto paint that is a > similar red to Honda's Italian Red? > > Thanks, > > Mark > > PS: Also, has anyone used Kelvin, based out of > Arlandria/Crystal City?? > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 19 13:59:58 2004 Subject: Magnetic Tank bag for Sale Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 14:03:35 -0400 From: "Julian Halton" To: "DC Cycles" , "Julian Halton" I have a tank bag for sale. It is one month old. Here are the specs: Micro Hug Fiber(tm) base with strong lightweight magnets holds the bag firm without slipping or marking bike Foam construction holds bags shape even when empty Highly reflective webbing Interior features soft tricot lining Detachable map pocket and adjustable shoulder strap included Waterproof rainstorm cover included Measures 13"L X 9"W X 5"H This bag is in perfect condition and the maker's name is Prostar. I could not find it online when I did a search. I paid $60.00 for the bag. I am asking for $40.00. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 19 15:25:10 2004 From: Jason Picton To: "'Mark Kitchell'" , DC Cycles Subject: RE: Bike Paint Advice Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 14:24:34 -0400 I don't know this guy - but a buddy got his Ducati 900ss CR professionally painted at a shop with motorcycle paint for 6 bills....... Jason -----Original Message----- From: Mark Kitchell [mailto:markkitchell@XXXXXX] Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 11:06 AM To: DC Cycles Subject: Bike Paint Advice Hopefully some of you have some insight. I have a 1991 VFR which was once pristine but years of city living has left it quite a sight. Scratched fairings, dented tank, faded paint, scratches from the Givi mounting hardware, etc. I decided this year to try and restore some of her glory. My first thought was to buy used fairing parts on Ebay. I do have a nice tank I got for $42 . However, my luck with fairings has not been so good. I just bought a 'perfect condition' right mid that was all scratched up. New fairing for the peices I need will cost me $800+ and won't even match with the existing sun damaged peices. This weekend I met with a guy (Kelvin) who was recommended by Dennis at Crossroads Cycles in Virginia. Dennis portrayed him as a home painter with good prices and good (not perfect) quality. I went to visit the guy and he does the work in his back yard. The paint job he had just done was very good. He also fixes broken plastic, which he really does wonders with. His ability to fix plastic is going to mean I do not have to buy anymore plastic. He recommends that rather than painting/repairing bits and peices, I should just repaint the entire bike (since the existing peices that are good have 10+ years of sun fading). Since I pretty much have all of the plastic peices I need, there will be almost no new plastic costs. His price to paint the entire bike (plastic and tank) is $600. This includes paint if I agree to use (my color choice of course) automotive paint from a local supplier. If I want to use Color-rite motorcycle-specific paint I need to make up the difference in cost ($150 or so). My question for the list is twofold: Does this seem like a good deal, assuming the quality is good (I am not expecting perfection, the bike is 10 years old and lives on the streets of DC)? Also, do you think I should go with the auto paint or pay extra for the Color-rite? Can I find an auto paint that is a similar red to Honda's Italian Red? Thanks, Mark PS: Also, has anyone used Kelvin, based out of Arlandria/Crystal City?? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 19 16:38:01 2004 Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 13:37:52 -0700 (PDT) From: cvkgpena@XXXXXX Reply-To: cvkgpena@XXXXXX To: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Bike Paint Advice Excuse me, but I resemble that remark! Stephen Miller I'm not saying you should put a TZ tail section on the bike or spraybomb it different colors [nod in Chuck's direction] From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 19 16:53:15 2004 Subject: Side Vertebrae Race boots red size 46 wanted Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 16:57:18 -0400 From: "Julian Halton" To: "DC Cycles" SO far the best price I can find is 330 on newenough.com. Anyone know anywhere else to look? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 19 17:02:32 2004 From: Stephen Miller Subject: Re: Bike Paint Advice Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 17:02:43 -0400 To: DC Cycles You just reminded me, Chuck, even your *brand new* CBR hasn't escaped your spraybombing!! On May 19, 2004, at 4:37 PM, cvkgpena@XXXXXX wrote: > Excuse me, but I resemble that remark! > > Stephen Miller wrote: > > I'm not saying you should put a TZ tail section on the bike or > spraybomb it different colors [nod in Chuck's > direction] > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 19 19:15:54 2004 Subject: Why gear? Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 19:15:37 -0400 From: "Morrison, Brian" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX X-WSS-ID: 6CB535102553782-01-01 Went for a great ride this weekend with some friends. Two (on the same bike, a Sportster) wore only 3/4 helmets, jeans and boots. The rest of us were of course outfitted in gloves, jeans, boots, full-face helmets and armored textile or leather. Today I broached the subject with them. My friend claimed that it was too hot. I explained that my black joe rocket jacket is VERY close to wearing nothing when you're moving, although it gets hot as hell at a stand-still. Even when hot, I think it's worth the protection. She also said that the only difference between her and me in a wreck would be scratches. I argued that even a low or mid-speed lowside could put her in the hospital, whereas I would only need to change my underwear. So she challenged me to produce empirical evidence or substantial authority of the value of NON-HELMET gear. (I understand the full-face v. 3/4 issue, and so does she. We're talking about gloves and jacket). Part of the issue, of course, is style - they want to look like they think Harley riders should look. (Before any of you get insulted, admit that there is a large contingent of Harley riders, whether minority or not, who wear short or non-DOT helmets, no gloves, maybe a vest, etc.) Accordingly, I need powerful evidence to overcome this. Anyone have authority or evidence? Thanks. Brian (I'm on digest, so cc my email if you would). ------------------------------------------------------------ NOTICE: This message is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by reply or by telephone (call us collect at (202) 434-5000) and immediately delete this message and all its attachments. ============================================================ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 19 19:27:12 2004 From: "Michael Jordan" To: "'Morrison, Brian'" , Subject: RE: Why gear? Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 19:27:00 -0400 > So she challenged me to produce empirical evidence or > substantial authority of the value of NON-HELMET gear. (I > understand the full-face v. 3/4 issue, and so does she. > We're talking about gloves and jacket). I don't have the link to the guy's site with the major road rash that was floating around here a week or so ago. Can anyone here provide Mr. Morrison with that link? It would seem to meet his requirement, as I recall. Thanks Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 19 19:41:18 2004 Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 16:41:08 -0700 (PDT) From: John Kozyn Subject: Re: VFR Repaint for $600 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Mark, I think this is a great deal _especially_ if he is going to do the prep, which is time consuming. I got my VFR painted blue (the only one like that in the area, btw ;) by A'ton Auto Body on Quincy. I think I paid around 600 just for them to shoot color so you're getting a deal. (N.B. re Ducati 900SS CR, there's a lot less plastic on that compared to MK's VFR). JK (D-mode) 1999 900SS 1995 VFR750F __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 19 20:00:53 2004 From: "Sean Steele" To: "DC Cycles" Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 20:00:27 -0400 Subject: A (im)Modest Proposal Permit me to get philosophical for a moment. Beyond the prosaic financial, spatial, and maintenance considerations of buying a second (or newer/better/different) bike, how does one stay happy with what they currently ride? In our collective estimation, is there any benefit to doing so (i.e., the arguable moral victory of delayed gratification)? Or is it true that he who dies with the most toys... wins? -Sean "If a tree falls..." Steele War-shington, DC '92 Seca II <---- having a cartoon roast turkey daydream of a new CBR600 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 19 20:11:25 2004 Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 20:10:49 -0400 From: Dale Horstman To: Sean Steele CC: DC Cycles Subject: Re: A (im)Modest Proposal Sean Steele wrote: > Permit me to get philosophical for a moment. > > Beyond the prosaic financial, spatial, and maintenance considerations of > buying a second (or newer/better/different) bike, how does one stay > happy with what they currently ride? Keep your main bike running well (eg. my Concours). Get an older bike that looks and runs like crap (the GS850G). Ride the old beater occasionally to remind yourself how good you have it on your other bike. IMPORTANT NOTE: Don't take test rides on newer/better machines. Ignorance is bliss. :) Horkster == Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark) Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX '98 Concours - BugSlayer Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth '99 Concours - Grape Nehi CM #001 NRA IBA COG '82 GS850G - Neat old bike The Mason Dixon 20-20 Endurance Rally: The Games People Play Come join us in 2004: http://www.masondixon20-20.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 19 20:11:27 2004 From: "Thomas Jordan" To: "'DC Cycles'" Subject: RE: Bike Paint Advice Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 20:11:23 -0400 I would personally stay away from single-stage paint. If he is using automotive paint, make sure it is not the crap Mattos sells for $100/gallon. It is ok for things that are getting painted semi-regularly and things that don't have to look good. But not things that you want to be durable and good looking. My 2 cents. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 19 20:36:58 2004 Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 20:34:18 -0400 To: "DC Cycles" From: Troutman Subject: Re: A (im)Modest Proposal At 08:00 PM 5/19/2004, Sean Steele wrote: >how does one stay happy with what they currently ride? By finding a ride that fits your needs and riding style. Worked for me. Pulled the front end off tonight and put it back on. Nice and straight, no rotor warping or rubbing. Chain slack was a bit loose, so I tightened it up a bit. I don't feel much of the oscillation anymore, but there is some still there. Just can't put my finger on it. Still can't get the fuel line off of the tank. May take it in and have the line replaced along with the brake lines and pads (or I guess I could just order the parts ;-) _____________________________________ Mike Troutman mike@XXXXXX http://www.troutman.org/vfr '97 Honda VFR 750 AMA - http://www.amadirectlink.com/ NMA - http://www.motorists.org "I'd rather die while I'm living, then live while I'm dead." - Jimmy Buffett From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 19 20:36:59 2004 Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 20:36:57 -0400 To: "Morrison, Brian" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: Why gear? At 07:15 PM 5/19/2004, Morrison, Brian wrote: >So she challenged me to produce empirical evidence or substantial >authority of the value of NON-HELMET gear. (I understand the full-face >v. 3/4 issue, and so does she. We're talking about gloves and jacket). Besides the obvious road rash precaution, have you been hit with rocks that cars kick up? They hurt through my gear. And flying cigarette butts don't feel great on bare skin either. In dead stopped traffic I take the FG Kenya off and stuff it between me and the tank until it gets moving again. Risk vs. heat stroke. _____________________________________ Mike Troutman mike@XXXXXX http://www.troutman.org/vfr '97 Honda VFR 750 AMA - http://www.amadirectlink.com/ NMA - http://www.motorists.org "I'd rather die while I'm living, then live while I'm dead." - Jimmy Buffett From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 19 20:54:39 2004 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: MCs & Tolls Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 20:42:33 -0400 Went to the OBX this weekend (in car). New (to me) Chesapeake Expressway charges 50 cents for MCs and $2 for cars. Since SmartTag is "not for MCs" there is no way to get the discount w/ the tag, but nice to see they recognize we don't put as much wear & tear on the road. _________________________________________________________________ Learn to simplify your finances and your life in Streamline Your Life from MSN Money. http://special.msn.com/money/0405streamline.armx From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 19 23:40:40 2004 Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 23:40:04 -0400 To: "Morrison, Brian" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Why gear? At 07:15 PM 5/19/04 -0400, Morrison, Brian wrote: >Part of the issue, of course, is style - they want to look like they >think Harley riders should look. (Before any of you get insulted, admit >that there is a large contingent of Harley riders, whether minority or >not, who wear short or non-DOT helmets, no gloves, maybe a vest, etc.) I've not seen a Harley rider (or any other rider) in a helmet-requiring state (like VA or MD) with a non-DOT helmet...and I've ridden with dozens of them in the last few months. Many do wear half-helmets, but all are DOT-approved. Some wear 3/4 helmets, and a minority wear full face (more of those in the winter than the summer). I haven't been looking for gloves in particular, but I think most wear them, at least the half-glove kind that cover the palm, but not the fingers (we're talking warm weather here...in the winter it's heavy gauntlets, perhaps with electric hookups :-) When it's hot out, a lot don't wear jackets, though many do wear leather vests. Some of those have been riding that way for many years...and don't have any road rash scars that I've noticed, so they are either lucky, careful, or both. Or maybe they just have really great reconstructive surgeons? When entering Delaware or Pennsylvania, where helmets are optional, some take advantage of that fact and remove the helmets. These seem to be a minority (out of about 17 bikes on a recent ride to Delaware, about 4 or 5 did that...the rest kept their helmets on...including the three of us wearing full face helmets). Dress varies widely, but you are right about a majority of Harley riders not wearing full race gear all the time on the street. Not even close to that in most cases. On the other hand, they don't ride like some sport bikers I've seen either. No wheelies through intersections, knee dragging around blind curves, or other such things that are likely to result in a need for really good protective gear. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 19 23:43:22 2004 Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 23:45:02 -0400 To: "Michael Jordan" , "'Morrison, Brian'" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: Why gear? At 07:27 PM 5/19/04 -0400, Michael Jordan wrote: >> So she challenged me to produce empirical evidence or >> substantial authority of the value of NON-HELMET gear. (I >> understand the full-face v. 3/4 issue, and so does she. >> We're talking about gloves and jacket). > >I don't have the link to the guy's site with the major road rash that was >floating around here a week or so ago. Can anyone here provide Mr. Morrison >with that link? > >It would seem to meet his requirement, as I recall. You mean the guy who woke up in the hospital emergency room, with his last memories consisting of hitting 100 mph on an interstate at 12am? He's here: http://www.cmyoung.com/bikewreck.html The full face helmet pitch, with a comment about full gear included, is at: http://jeff.dean.home.att.net/swisher.htm -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 19 23:46:19 2004 Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 23:47:57 -0400 To: "Sean Steele" , "DC Cycles" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: A (im)Modest Proposal At 08:00 PM 5/19/04 -0400, Sean Steele wrote: >Permit me to get philosophical for a moment. > >Beyond the prosaic financial, spatial, and maintenance considerations of >buying a second (or newer/better/different) bike, how does one stay >happy with what they currently ride? In our collective estimation, is >there any benefit to doing so (i.e., the arguable moral victory of >delayed gratification)? I still like mine. The only reason I can see for having more than one is to have more than one type...with different capabilities. For instance, a cruiser and a dirt bike, or an enduro and a sport-touring bike, or a track bike and a tour bike. Or one of each of those... ;-) I barely have enough free time to ride the one I have, so I don't need another at the moment. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 19 23:47:18 2004 Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 20:47:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: RE: Why gear? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Michael Jordan wrote: > > So she challenged me to produce empirical evidence or > > substantial authority of the value of NON-HELMET gear. (I > > understand the full-face v. 3/4 issue, and so does she. > > We're talking about gloves and jacket). > > I don't have the link to the guy's site with the major road rash that > was > floating around here a week or so ago. Can anyone here provide Mr. > Morrison > with that link? > > It would seem to meet his requirement, as I recall. Probably not. The guy was doing something like 100mph with no gear and doesn't even remember why he went down. In my opinion: 1. Many people who ride sport bikes are emulating the sportbike racers they see on TV. Others like the acceleration (like me) or even the coolness factor. How many cruisers do you see coming down 211 or Deal's Gap? There is a much higher proportion of sportbikers whizzing down the road and complaining about gravel in the turns as if they were on the track. So they're going to ride with full face and "racing gear". They ride expecting to fall down by pushing the bike too hard through a turn. I was at a light the other day on my Gixxer when a guy with no helmet pulled up next to me on a green Kaw. I greeted him and then knocked on my helmet "where's your helmet?". He wanted to know how much it cost. "Three hundred on sale but a helmet has saved my head." I wonder if another reason is that they haven't gone down yet. They may also be emulating their peers. If three or four friends get together and none have helmets or gear, what's the likelyhood that another friend will? With the mailing lists, you have the opportunity to hear from others who've experienced what happens when you go down and then make a more informed decision. And that's true whether sportbike or cruiser. One of the recent superbike magazines had an article (in fact it was "Cycle's Sportbike 2004" and the article is "From Extreme Street to Main Street") on the guys who ride with shorts and tennies but do wheelies and stoppies. One of the points is the number of DVD's on sale at the sportbike shops that glorify the extreme bikers. And hey, didn't we post links to the maniac doing 120+MPH through traffic? 2. The folks who ride cruisers are just that. Cruising. They're not pushing the bike to the limits on turns and don't expect to fall down. The worst you can expect is some gravel, a bug or other piece of crap thrown at you on the road. Out here there's lots of sand and dirt being thrown up. The dump trucks don't have a "cover your load" requirement and some of the trucks have signs: "Stay back 200 feet. We're not responsible if your windshield is broken". I think the feeling is that as long as you're watching your ass, you're not likely to go down. I know that when I ride the gixxer, I have gloves, full face and my JR jacket on but when I'm on the Harley, I have my half helmet, goggles, leather vest (for the gravel, bugs and goo) and half gloves. But I also know that I'm more aggressive on the gixxer than on the Harley. These are my opinions. Generalizations are mine. YMMV. > > Thanks > > Michael J. > Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 19 23:49:54 2004 Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 22:49:50 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Sean Jordan Subject: AMA Pro-Racing Honda Superbike Classic at Barber Motorsports These are my shots from last weekend - let me know what you guys think! http://michaelj.smugmug.com/gallery/120592/1 - Sean Jordan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed May 19 23:59:34 2004 Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 20:59:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: A (im)Modest Proposal To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Sean Steele wrote: > Permit me to get philosophical for a moment. > > Beyond the prosaic financial, spatial, and maintenance considerations of > > buying a second (or newer/better/different) bike, how does one stay > happy with what they currently ride? In our collective estimation, is > there any benefit to doing so (i.e., the arguable moral victory of > delayed gratification)? > I don't think you can ignore the three items you listed. I'm happier with my bikes as long as they're still useable. At some point, the maintenance passes a threashhold and it's time to replace it. There's also technology, for the sportbikes especially. They get lighter, faster, better. Lighter bikes can also be structurally weaker in the long run. Something that's meant to race isn't meant to last 20 years. I just spent some 750 bucks on the gixxer and I'm starting the process for upgrading the bike. That consists of dropping hints to the SO and making sure she sees the bill. I like the gixxer and will likely buy a newer one (there's a 'busa in Sunday's paper for $6100, needs rubber and a lower fairing *ponder* *ponder*). The Harley will probably stick around for a long time. > Or is it true that he who dies with the most toys... wins? > > -Sean "If a tree falls..." Steele > War-shington, DC > '92 Seca II <---- having a cartoon roast turkey daydream of a new CBR600 > Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 03:28:14 2004 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 03:27:47 -0400 From: Brian Roach To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Why gear? Carl Schelin wrote: > 2. The folks who ride cruisers are just that. Cruising. They're not > pushing the bike to the limits on turns and don't expect to fall down. The > worst you can expect is some gravel, a bug or other piece of crap thrown > at you on the road. Except ... you're no less likely to get clipped by a mini-van on a cruiser. Nor does a deer care what you're riding. I don't think the one that jumped in front of Chuck a while back did so because he was on a GSXR :) I don't wear protective gear (on the street) because I think I'm going to be pushing any limits ... I wear it because if some nimrod not paying attention in a cage causes me to part ways with my bike, I'm not going to need skin grafts. ::knock on wood:: I've never actually needed it on the street. I could have been blissfully riding in shorts and flip-flops for the last 15 years, and taking my helmet off where allowed. But I'm happier being safer than sorry. It goes back to that risk/reward thing. I don't really mind wearing the gear, so there's not much reward (to me) in risking not wearing it. - Roach -- http://www.speedwerks.com The one-stop shop for all your motorcycling needs! (302) 672 - 7223 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 04:57:28 2004 Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 16:46:11 -0700 (PDT) From: John Kozyn Subject: Spam: FS: 1 tkt 4 Bonnaroo To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Hey DC Guys 'n Gals, I have one ticket for Bonnaroo in Manchester, TN (cicada central ;) on the weekend of June 11-13 available for exactly what I paid for it: $180.00. E-mail me off list, if interested. 'Roo info made be found here: http://www.bonnaroo.com JK (D-mode) 1999 900SS 1995 VFR750F __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 08:10:30 2004 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 08:10:14 -0400 From: Dale Horstman To: Sean Steele CC: DC Cycles Subject: Re: MetricBikes.com Sean Steele wrote: > Any listers have purchase experience or reviews of MetricBikes.com? > Their prices on apparel seem pretty good. I just bought a Shoei helmet for the wife from their website. No complaints. I had never heard of them before, either. Horkster -- Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark) Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX '98 Concours - BugSlayer Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth '99 Concours - Grape Nehi CM #001 NRA IBA COG '82 GS850G - Neat old bike The Mason Dixon 20-20 Endurance Rally: The Games People Play Come join us in 2004: http://www.masondixon20-20.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 08:21:08 2004 Reply-To: "Jon Strang" From: "Jon Strang" To: Subject: Re: Why gear? Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 08:21:35 -0400 You need smarter friends. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Morrison, Brian" > > So she challenged me to produce empirical evidence or substantial > authority of the value of NON-HELMET gear. (I understand the full-face > v. 3/4 issue, and so does she. We're talking about gloves and jacket). From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 08:43:13 2004 Reply-To: "Jon Strang" From: "Jon Strang" To: Subject: Re: Why gear? Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 08:43:41 -0400 Now for my non-smartass answer: I fell down going about 25 mph. In shorts and a T-shirt. I was 18 or 19 at the time, and thought I was bullet proof. I may have been, but I wasn't asphalt and gravel-proof. I lost most of the skin on my right side and back, ground my elbow down to the bone (about a dime-size patch of bone was visible with the elbow straight, more when bent). Big chunks were gone from my palms. I spent a good 3-4 hours at the hospital getting dirt and gravel brillo-padded out of my hide. The pain, even through the industrial-grade IV administered painkillers, was intense. Unbelieveably intense. It took a few weeks to heal...and even with my happy take-home package of percocets, it hurt like hell as my back and side dried, cracked, bled, oozed. Due to that experience, I don't ride without at least f/f helmet, jeans, m/c gloves and a m/c jacket. And I rarely wear just jeans, almost always (99.5% of the time) wear m/c pants (JR ballistic, Phoenix, or leather). About a year and a half ago, I fell going a bit faster. I was in full leathers (two piece Teknics suit), gloves and full face helmet. Other than a sore shoulder (albeit a very, very sore shoulder), I was injury free. As I watched the pavement zoom past an inch from my nose, I was amazed that it wasn't hurting yet. There. Empirical data. Hopefully your friends are smarter than the 18-19 y.o. me. --jon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Strang" To: Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 8:21 AM Subject: Re: Why gear? > You need smarter friends. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Morrison, Brian" > > > > So she challenged me to produce empirical evidence or substantial > > authority of the value of NON-HELMET gear. (I understand the full-face > > v. 3/4 issue, and so does she. We're talking about gloves and jacket). > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 08:53:29 2004 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 08:52:28 -0400 (EDT) From: dan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Why gear? > 1. Many people who ride sport bikes are emulating the sportbike racers > they see on TV. Others like the acceleration (like me) or even the > coolness factor. How many cruisers do you see coming down 211 or Deal's > Gap? There is a much higher proportion of sportbikers whizzing down the > road and complaining about gravel in the turns as if they were on the > track. So they're going to ride with full face and "racing gear". They > ride expecting to fall down by pushing the bike too hard through a turn. > Actually, most of the crashes posted on the local boards involve target fixation rather than hitting things and going too fast for the bike. So its usually pushing themselves too hard through the turn. Been there done that, and gear saved my ass. Dan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 08:55:57 2004 From: Stephen Miller Subject: Re: Why gear? Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 08:56:10 -0400 To: DC Cycles On May 19, 2004, at 11:40 PM, Mike Bartman wrote: > > I've not seen a Harley rider (or any other rider) in a helmet-requiring > state (like VA or MD) with a non-DOT helmet...and I've ridden with > dozens > of them in the last few months. Many do wear half-helmets, but all are > DOT-approved. Some wear 3/4 helmets, and a minority wear full face > (more > of those in the winter than the summer). I see them frequently in MD and VA, non-DOT helmets with DOT stickers. But the majority have DOT half-helmets or better. Actually, when I lived in VA, there was a guy who frequently rode around on his 'Busa in my neighborhood with shorts, a tank top, and a non-DOT beanie. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 09:39:38 2004 From: bernescut@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: BMorrison@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Why gear? Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 09:38:56 -0400 I have to agree from personal experience that even a simple misstep like putting your foot down in a puddle of oil and falling over can result in bad brusises and skin lacerations if you aren't properly dressed (not to mention peels of laughter from your suppossed friends). One thing to also consider is that even a simple laceration can lead to staph infection (even in the hospital) and right now there are fewer and fewer antibiotics that can stop it. It'd be a shame to survive the accident on account of your helmet only to die anyway because of infection from the lacerations. http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/eid/press_r/rotun.htm I'm still trying to find that post from the HD rider whose SO was wearing a halter top and had her nipples sanded off by the asphalt when she landed; maybe someone else can repost it. Cedric Bernescut 2000 CBR600F4 Annandale, VA Anyone have authority or evidence? Thanks. Brian From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 09:45:21 2004 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 09:45:17 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: cvkgpena@XXXXXX Reply-To: cvkgpena@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Why gear? To add to Jon's empirical data point, please invite your friend to read about my encounter with a deer: http://www.geocities.com/the_penas/chux_gsxr.htm and scroll down to my "Deerhunter" story. My pal Gary Jaehne (racer and track instructor) out in CA has survived 3 such hits! Here's what I would tell your friend: The proper gear does not guarantee that injuries or worse will be prevented, but it exponentially increases the likelihood that you will walk away relatively unscathed. Jon Strang wrote: There. Empirical data. Hopefully your friends are smarter than the 18-19 y.o. me. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 09:50:12 2004 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 09:50:05 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: cvkgpena@XXXXXX Reply-To: cvkgpena@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Why gear? Maybe it was the new Ferrari yellow paint and fancy graphics that attracted the deer. %^) And here's another good reason to wear proper protective gear while street riding: hard, immovable objects. Many more of these in the street environment than on a track. Even at low speeds, banging into one (oh, like the curb) is gonna hurt and having the right gear could make the difference between minor and major injuries. wrote: Nor does a deer care what you're riding. I don't think the one that jumped in front of Chuck a while back did so because he was on a GSXR :) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 09:57:18 2004 From: bernescut@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Why gear? Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 09:56:52 -0400 Anyone catch the 2 page ad for Icon gear just inside the cover of Cycle World this month? It showed a rider sitting on the curb after a crash with scratched up gear and helmet, but pretty much OK. It looked so real I got the impression they were shooting a different ad but the stunt rider bit it and the photographer took advantage of the moment. I'm not sure Suzuki appreciated the sight of a wrecked GSXR on the ground, but it sure as heck got the point across to wear your gear. Cedric Bernescut 2000 CBR600F4 Annandale, VA Even at low speeds, banging into one (oh, like the curb) is gonna hurt and having the right gear could make the difference between minor and major injuries. wrote: From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 09:59:00 2004 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 09:58:12 -0400 (EDT) From: dan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: celebs that ride For anyone that cares, a nice list of famous people who ride, its rather surprising. http://www.motorbiker.org/Motorbiker.nsf/Celebs_Name?OpenView From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 10:17:50 2004 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:16:38 -0400 (EDT) From: dan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Six Quarts of Valvoline Synthetic for Free http://www.valvoline.com/pages/rebates/rebate_details.asp?rebateid=18 Should make for a nice free oil change! I got six quarts of their maxlife free a few months ago, so they do actually pay out. Dan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 10:23:41 2004 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:23:34 -0400 To: "DC Cycles" From: Troutman Subject: Report the idiot cage driver https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/ps/police/traf_sfty_report.htm If the violation occurs in Fairfax County, use the form to anonymously report their behavior to the police. They'll get a letter in the mail and a note in their file. Maybe next time they get pulled over, they get a real ticket. I just used it on this woman that blew a 4 way stop this morning causing a near miss. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles. One who does not know the enemy but knows himself will sometimes win, sometimes lose. One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself will be in danger in every battle. - Sun Tzu From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 10:50:16 2004 From: "Rob Keiser" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Why gear? Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:38:23 -0400 Because sweating is better than bleeding. Rob '98 VFR800 (once again, ready for the road) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 10:53:19 2004 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 09:53:16 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Sean Jordan Subject: Re: Spam: FS: 1 tkt 4 Bonnaroo John K. posted: >Hey DC Guys 'n Gals, > >I have one ticket for Bonnaroo in Manchester, TN ... This is about a half-hour south of where I'm going to school here in TN. (And we don't have any cicadas yet!) If anyone is riding out here for the festival, drop me a line. - Sean Jordan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 10:56:25 2004 Subject: Re:MetricBikes.com Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:56:10 -0400 From: "Maurer, Aaron" To: sean@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX X-WSS-ID: 6CB218802686778-01-01 Stay away from them. See http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40032&highlight=metric for more info. Aaron P. Maurer Williams & Connolly, LLP 202-434-5282 202-434-5029 (fax) ------------------------------------------------------------ NOTICE: This message is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by reply or by telephone (call us collect at (202) 434-5000) and immediately delete this message and all its attachments. ============================================================ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 10:56:52 2004 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:56:50 -0400 From: "Chris Norloff" Reply-To: To: "DC Cycles" Subject: RE: Report the idiot cage driver Excellent idea. I think some folks would be surprised to hear their actions reported by others as aggressive. Unfortunately, I think there are some drivers who would regard this as a badge of honor. Chris Norloff ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Troutman Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:23:34 -0400 >https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/ps/police/traf_sfty_report.htm > >If the violation occurs in Fairfax County, use the form to anonymously >report their behavior to the police. They'll get a letter in the mail and >a note in their file. Maybe next time they get pulled over, they get a >real ticket. > >I just used it on this woman that blew a 4 way stop this morning causing a >near miss. > > >___________________________________________ > Mike Troutman > http://www.troutman.org/vfr > 1997 Honda VFR 750 > AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ > NMA http://www.motorists.org > >One who knows the enemy and knows himself >will not be in danger in a hundred battles. >One who does not know the enemy but knows himself >will sometimes win, sometimes lose. >One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself >will be in danger in every battle. > - Sun Tzu > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 10:57:37 2004 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:53:47 -0400 From: Skip To: Brian Roach CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Why gear? Brian Roach wrote: > > But I'm happier being safer than sorry. It goes back to that risk/reward > thing. I don't really mind wearing the gear, so there's not much reward > (to me) in risking not wearing it. I feel naked and uncomfortable without gear on. Years ago maryland had no helmet law, and two times I rode sans helmet. I was too uncomfortable without my lid and stopped both times after about 10 minutes to put it back on. --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 11:09:50 2004 From: "Wesleyan Hsu" To: "'DC Cycles'" Subject: RE: Report the idiot cage driver Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 11:09:41 -0400 And, I'm sure there will be people who will report just anybody, including "good" drivers or maybe their friends, just to send out a scare. Wes Hsu > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris Norloff [mailto:cnorloff@XXXXXX] > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 10:57 AM > To: DC Cycles > Subject: RE: Report the idiot cage driver > > Excellent idea. I think some folks would be surprised to hear > their actions reported by others as aggressive. > > Unfortunately, I think there are some drivers who would > regard this as a badge of honor. > > Chris Norloff > > ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- > From: Troutman > Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:23:34 -0400 > > >https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/ps/police/traf_sfty_report.htm > > > >If the violation occurs in Fairfax County, use the form to > anonymously > >report their behavior to the police. They'll get a letter > in the mail > >and a note in their file. Maybe next time they get pulled > over, they > >get a real ticket. > > > >I just used it on this woman that blew a 4 way stop this morning > >causing a near miss. > > > > > >___________________________________________ > > Mike Troutman > > http://www.troutman.org/vfr > > 1997 Honda VFR 750 > > AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ > > NMA http://www.motorists.org > > > >One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a > >hundred battles. > >One who does not know the enemy but knows himself will > sometimes win, > >sometimes lose. > >One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself will be in > >danger in every battle. > > - Sun Tzu > > > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 11:57:47 2004 From: "marc shaller" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: New Biker in Need of Advice Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 11:46:23 -0400 I am a new biker looking for a good place in and around the District to purchase motorcycle gear. I don't have a car so it would have to be metro accessible. I'd also like to get the names of honest brokers who sell motorcycle insurance at reasonable price. Any help is be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Marc _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar )B– get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 12:09:43 2004 Subject: RE: Report the idiot cage driver Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 12:13:45 -0400 From: "Julian Halton" To: "DC Cycles" Welcome to 1984. Nameless individuals reporting to the authorities with no fear of recrimination so data ends up in a file....fairly soon insurance companies get access to this file to determine coverage. Any tom, dick, jane or harry can influence your life. When will the madness stop? when will we as a society stop catering to the lowest common denominator? what happened to personal responsibility? If everyone drove properly....and did not: - slam on the brakes for any reason at all - lollygag in the left lane - left space cushions around them so that rush hour traffic could flow instead of accordion Imagine the possbilities! From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 12:10:53 2004 Reply-To: "Jon Strang" From: "Jon Strang" To: "marc shaller" , Subject: Re: New Biker in Need of Advice Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 12:11:17 -0400 http://www.motorcycleleatherexchange.com/ -- nice folks, local, dc-cycles posters. Me and everyone else on the list will sing our praises of their good prices and customer service. www.newenough.com -- nice folks, I've had nothing but great experiences with them. Not local, not dc-cycles. ----- Original Message ----- From: "marc shaller" To: Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 11:46 AM Subject: New Biker in Need of Advice > I am a new biker looking for a good place in and around the District to > purchase motorcycle gear. I don't have a car so it would have to be metro > accessible. > > I'd also like to get the names of honest brokers who sell motorcycle > insurance at reasonable price. > > Any help is be greatly appreciated. > > Thank you, > Marc > > _________________________________________________________________ > FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar - get it now! > http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 12:25:51 2004 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 09:25:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: New Biker in Need of Advice To: marc shaller , dc-cycles@XXXXXX You will have trouble finding a company to insure your bike inside DC (if thats where you live). Since you don't have a car it will be more difficult. Markel insures my bike in DC, give them a try. As for gear, its much cheaper to buy gear online. One of the closest retail shops is Coleman Powersports in Falls Chuch and they are legendary for their high prices and horrible service. --- Jon Strang wrote: > http://www.motorcycleleatherexchange.com/ -- nice > folks, local, dc-cycles > posters. Me and everyone else on the list will sing > our praises of their > good prices and customer service. > > www.newenough.com -- nice folks, I've had nothing > but great experiences with > them. Not local, not dc-cycles. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "marc shaller" > To: > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 11:46 AM > Subject: New Biker in Need of Advice > > > > I am a new biker looking for a good place in and > around the District to > > purchase motorcycle gear. I don't have a car so > it would have to be metro > > accessible. > > > > I'd also like to get the names of honest brokers > who sell motorcycle > > insurance at reasonable price. > > > > Any help is be greatly appreciated. > > > > Thank you, > > Marc > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar - > get it now! > > > http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 12:26:47 2004 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 09:26:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Bike Night is this SUNDAY To: DC Cycles I hope to see a bunch of you. Lets start the season out right (Bike Night season not riding season)! http://www.geocities.com/bikenight/ We are pleased to announce the return of Bike Nights to the DC area. These events have been going on since 2000 and bring the DC-area riding community together. MC Productions presents... BIKE NIGHT CarPool Restaurant and Bar 4000 Fairfax Drive Arlington, VA Sunday, May 23rd, 2004 4pm to 8pm Join DC area motorcyclists at CarPool (http://www.gocarpool.com) in Arlington, Virginia for the first BIKE NIGHT of the summer. ALL motorcyclists (cruisers, sportbikes, touring bikes, dirt bikes, Brit bikes, classic bikes, etc.) are welcome to join in the fun and camaraderie. Reserved motorcycle-only parking out front and BBQ by Rocklands. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 12:29:15 2004 From: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" To: "'Troutman'" , DC Cycles Subject: RE: Report the idiot cage driver Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 12:29:00 -0400 Sweet I wonder if Montgomery county or Prince Georges has such a thing? -----Original Message----- From: Troutman [mailto:mike@XXXXXX] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 10:24 AM To: DC Cycles Subject: Report the idiot cage driver https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/ps/police/traf_sfty_report.htm If the violation occurs in Fairfax County, use the form to anonymously report their behavior to the police. They'll get a letter in the mail and a note in their file. Maybe next time they get pulled over, they get a real ticket. I just used it on this woman that blew a 4 way stop this morning causing a near miss. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles. One who does not know the enemy but knows himself will sometimes win, sometimes lose. One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself will be in danger in every battle. - Sun Tzu From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 12:37:31 2004 Subject: Greetlets Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 12:37:21 -0400 From: "Smith, Andrew" To: "DC Cycles" Hello everyone, My name's Andy and I've been lurking on this group for a couple of days so thought it was about time I introduced myself. Seems like a great group you've got going here, very informative, little BS. I'm 28 and I hail from Manchester, England, though I've been living in the DC area for 7 years now and Sean recently invited me over to this list. I'll be going to Bike Night so am looking forward to meeting a bunch of new riders. Look for the bald guy on the Black CBR drooling over anything chrome. Maybe that should narrow it down to about 50 people? Cheers, /Andy From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 12:40:47 2004 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 09:40:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Greetlets To: "Smith, Andrew" , DC Cycles Welcome aboard Andy! --- "Smith, Andrew" wrote: > Hello everyone, > > My name's Andy and I've been lurking on this group > for a couple of days > so thought it was about time I introduced myself. > Seems like a great > group you've got going here, very informative, > little BS. I'm 28 and I > hail from Manchester, England, though I've been > living in the DC area > for 7 years now and Sean recently invited me over to > this list. > > I'll be going to Bike Night so am looking forward to > meeting a bunch of > new riders. Look for the bald guy on the Black CBR > drooling over > anything chrome. Maybe that should narrow it down to > about 50 people? > > Cheers, > /Andy > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 13:01:49 2004 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:01:39 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: RE: Report the idiot cage driver To: DC Cycles >Sweet I wonder if Montgomery county or Prince Georges has >such a thing? [Dave] So far as I know, UnFairTax is the only local jurisdiction that has such a program. I remember being severely incensed once last year, calling to ask about it, and the dispatcher had no idea what I was talking about. >https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/ps/police/traf_sfty_report.htm I have mixed feelings about this program. On one hand, I am a bit suspicious of the idea - who's to say a neighbor dispute or parking lot argument won't result in a complaint. I think that a safe measure to prevent this is to initiate an online complaint form for actual criminal investigation, meaning that there would be a penalty involved for making a false statement. OTOH, I can understand the need for this because, in Virginia, if you encounter a law officer chances are 95% that you will hear one of 3 canned opening lines. 1: Do you know how fast you were going? 2: That's a civil matter. 3: We can't write tickets for things we don't witness. That is not to say that all of them are lazy donut scoffers. I had to deal with Fairfax PD a couple weeks ago. I draw your attention to : http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-200.1 )B§ 18.2-200.1. Failure to perform promise for construction, etc., in return for advances. This handy dandy section of code was put in place to curb fraud and abusive contractors. over a year ago, I contracted to have an addition put on my house. Long story short, it's still outstanding. Per the statute, I sent off the certified notice of intent to invoke the statute, with proof of advanced payment, waited approximately 20 days. USPS is also pretty handy nowadays too, because they showed that the correspondence was forwarded to his new address, but never picked up (not required). I alleged, and could substantiate 2 counts of felony larceny under this statute. Sure enough, when I called the FPD, at 1st, the officer was 100% skeptical. Remaining calm, I drew his attention to the printed copy of the law at hand, and my written evidence. This gave him reason to pause. His pronouncement - go to civil court, you can try this in front of a Magistrate and maybe they go for it. He agreed to give the contractor a call, and offer some free advice... I made a point to show the nice officer around, let him hear the whole story - mother in law suite, her life savings, etc... About 2 hours later, FPD calls back and says - 'mind if I stop by?' Seems he's talked to his partner, and a magistrate, and they both concur, this is felony theft. FPD officer brings a form letter that the magistrate has handy for just this type of issue, we compare notes, and agree I've got dotted "i"'s and crossed "t"'s. End result: outstanding money returned, contractor dismissed... Subsequent discussion with FPD leads me to believe I could only sustain 1 count of theft under the statute, but, it does appear to hold water... The object lesson here - it's impossible for anyone to know every section of law (FPD admitted as much and apologized, which I felt was not necessary given his efforts to right the situation). Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 13:04:52 2004 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:06:35 -0400 To: Stephen Miller , DC Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Why gear? At 08:56 AM 5/20/04 -0400, Stephen Miller wrote: >I see them frequently in MD and VA, non-DOT helmets with DOT stickers. If it has a DOT sticker, how do you know it isn't a DOT-approved helmet? -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 13:10:03 2004 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:09:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Why gear? To: Mike Bartman , Stephen Miller , DC Cycles Because DOT rarely approves German-Army style helmets with faux-crome exteriors. --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 08:56 AM 5/20/04 -0400, Stephen Miller wrote: > > >I see them frequently in MD and VA, non-DOT helmets > with DOT stickers. > > If it has a DOT sticker, how do you know it isn't a > DOT-approved helmet? > > -- Mike B. > > '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI > for the non-Harley folks) > > Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from > someone else's mistakes > is better. > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 13:18:42 2004 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:20:25 -0400 To: cvkgpena@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Why gear? At 09:50 AM 5/20/04 -0400, cvkgpena@XXXXXX wrote: >Even at low speeds, banging into one (oh, like the curb) is gonna hurt and >having the right gear could make the difference between minor and major >injuries. Or make no difference at all...like the guy I read about once down in Va. Beach. Someone ran a red light (don't recall if it was the bike or the car) and a bike T-boned a car at almost 40 mph, launching the rider over the car. He flew until he hit the pavement, and slid head first into the curb. The impact killed him instantly. Ban curbs? Oh, he was wearing a full face helmet at the time. Made no difference in that case at all. If you want to be really safe, drive an M-1. Anything less and something will always be bigger, heavier and more durable. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 13:24:27 2004 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:24:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Why gear? To: cvkgpena@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX MIKE: 40MPH IS NOT LOW SPEED --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 09:50 AM 5/20/04 -0400, cvkgpena@XXXXXX > wrote: > >Even at low speeds, banging into one (oh, like the > curb) is gonna hurt and > >having the right gear could make the difference > between minor and major > >injuries. > > Or make no difference at all...like the guy I read > about once down in Va. > Beach. Someone ran a red light (don't recall if it > was the bike or the > car) and a bike T-boned a car at almost 40 mph, > launching the rider over > the car. He flew until he hit the pavement, and > slid head first into the > curb. The impact killed him instantly. Ban curbs? > > Oh, he was wearing a full face helmet at the time. > Made no difference in > that case at all. > > If you want to be really safe, drive an M-1. > Anything less and something > will always be bigger, heavier and more durable. > > > -- Mike B. > > '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI > for the non-Harley folks) > > Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from > someone else's mistakes > is better. > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 13:33:30 2004 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:33:13 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: New Biker in Need of Advice X-AOL-IP: 65.86.98.162 You can also metro and then taxi out to Cycle Sport in Alexandria. Take Yellow Line all the way to Huntington Station and then a short (2-3 miles maybe) cab ride to 7800 Richmond Highway. Nice folks and decent prices. Scooter In a message dated 5/20/2004 12:25:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, markkitchell@XXXXXX writes: > > > You will have trouble finding a company to insure your > bike inside DC (if thats where you live). Since you > don't have a car it will be more difficult. > > Markel insures my bike in DC, give them a try. > > As for gear, its much cheaper to buy gear online. One > of the closest retail shops is Coleman Powersports in > Falls Chuch and they are legendary for their high > prices and horrible service. > > > --- Jon Strang wrote: > > http://www.motorcycleleatherexchange.com/ -- nice > > folks, local, dc-cycles > > posters. Me and everyone else on the list will sing > > our praises of their > > good prices and customer service. > > > > www.newenough.com -- nice folks, I've had nothing > > but great experiences with > > them. Not local, not dc-cycles. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "marc shaller" > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 11:46 AM > > Subject: New Biker in Need of Advice > > > > > > > I am a new biker looking for a good place in and > > around the District to > > > purchase motorcycle gear. I don't have a car so > > it would have to be metro > > > accessible. > > > > > > I'd also like to get the names of honest brokers > > who sell motorcycle > > > insurance at reasonable price. > > > > > > Any help is be greatly appreciated. > > > > > > Thank you, > > > Marc From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 13:35:15 2004 Subject: RE: Helmets (Was: Why gear?) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:35:05 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Mark Kitchell" , "Mike Bartman" , "Stephen Miller" , "DC Cycles" I remember riding through Nevada back in the late 80's, and spotting a rider approaching me wearing a rather striking helmet. It looked like a Roman centurion helmet, complete with nose-piece and cheek plates, and a crest that looked like it was made of horse-hair. As he got closer and we passed each other, I could see that the "open spaces" in the face area of the helmet were actually tinted plastic of some sort, and that he also had a scabbard (complete with handle, I admit that I did not actually see a sword blade) strapped across his back. It was a full-face helmet, albeit a pretty startling design... The German helmet design is a Stahlhelm, BTW. http://www.inventionandtechnology.com/2003/01/feature.shtml And, in the interest of fairness, there is a DOT version; http://www.helmetsgonewild.com/?engine=adwords!1049&keyword=%28motorcycle+helmet%29 Robert -----Original Message----- From: Mark Kitchell [mailto:markkitchell@XXXXXX] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 1:10 PM To: Mike Bartman; Stephen Miller; DC Cycles Subject: Re: Why gear? Because DOT rarely approves German-Army style helmets with faux-crome exteriors. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 13:36:33 2004 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:38:23 -0400 To: dan , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: celebs that ride At 09:58 AM 5/20/04 -0400, dan wrote: >For anyone that cares, a nice list of famous people who ride, its rather >surprising. > >http://www.motorbiker.org/Motorbiker.nsf/Celebs_Name?OpenView They ran out of room for Leno...I know he's got more brands than are listed! The women who ride H-D all seem to be pretty attractive...or were at one time in a few cases. Vespa seems to be in second place there... ;-) Is there a dealer for that "unknown" bike around here? Don't think I've ever seen one on the road. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 13:44:39 2004 From: "Rob Sharp" To: "Julian Halton" , "DC Cycles" Subject: RE: Report the idiot cage driver Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:46:23 -0400 Julian take your "SOMA" or else I will report you to the authorities. And btw no unauthorized procreation! Rob On Thu, 20 May 2004 12:13:45 -0400, Julian Halton wrote > Welcome to 1984. Nameless individuals reporting to the authorities with > no fear of recrimination so data ends up in a file....fairly soon > insurance companies get access to this file to determine coverage. Any > tom, dick, jane or harry can influence your life. > When will the madness stop? when will we as a society stop catering > to the lowest common denominator? what happened to personal responsibility? > > If everyone drove properly....and did not: > - slam on the brakes for any reason at all > - lollygag in the left lane > - left space cushions around them so that rush hour traffic could > flow instead of accordion Imagine the possbilities! -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 13:47:15 2004 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:47:03 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Why gear? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Chucky P pointed out: >>Even at low speeds, banging into one (oh, like the curb) is >>gonna hurt and having the right gear could make the >>difference between minor and major injuries. > >Or make no difference at all...like the guy I read about >once down in Va. Beach. Someone ran a red light (don't >recall if it was the bike or the car) and a bike T-boned a >car at almost 40 mph, ... The impact killed him instantly. >Ban curbs? > >Oh, he was wearing a full face helmet at the time. Made no >difference in that case at all. [Dave] Not that street riders should apply this 100%, but, if gear made no difference, racers would be riding in tee shirts, shorts and shower shoes. Any NASCAR or NHRA drivers who DON'T wear full harnesses? Sure, having all the gear in the world could make zero difference, but statistically speaking helmets and other appropriate riding apparel help to prevent / minimize injury. If my opinion is not good enough, try this simple experiment. Put on full face helmet, full leather suit. Walk outside to the pavement. Stand straight up and let yourself fall over backwards. Have a witness in case you lose conciousness; log your injuries and rate the amount of pain on a scale of 1 -10. Now, remove all protective gear, and repeat the above experiment with jeans, a tee shirt and tennis shoes on. Report back with results. I'm just a country boy from Accokeek, but I'll bet your pain index will be higher without the gear... Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 13:49:09 2004 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:49:05 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Why gear? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Just to clarify this, I was commenting on Mike's response to Chuck's gear advocacy... >>Or make no difference at all... Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 14:03:35 2004 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 14:00:59 -0400 To: Mark Kitchell , Stephen Miller , DC Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Why gear? But they do approve half-helmets with chrome exteriors, that might look a lot like a German-Army WWII era helmet under the right circumstances...I've seen them at Battley's, and they are DOT approved. On the other hand, there are idiots in the world, so maybe some dink is running around without an approved helmet and counting on the police not knowing the difference. -- Mike B. At 10:09 AM 5/20/04 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote: >Because DOT rarely approves German-Army style helmets >with faux-crome exteriors. > > >--- Mike Bartman wrote: >> At 08:56 AM 5/20/04 -0400, Stephen Miller wrote: >> >> >I see them frequently in MD and VA, non-DOT helmets >> with DOT stickers. >> >> If it has a DOT sticker, how do you know it isn't a >> DOT-approved helmet? >> >> -- Mike B. >> >> '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI >> for the non-Harley folks) >> >> Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from >> someone else's mistakes >> is better. >> > > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year >http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 14:03:49 2004 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 14:05:18 -0400 To: Mark Kitchell , cvkgpena@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Why gear? No, but it also isn't the speed he hit the curb at either. There was probably a little deceleration at the car, and certainly a little more as he slid on the pavement before reaching the curb. Final speed is unknown. Could be far less than 40 and still give the same results though...the neck just isn't all that strong, and multiple compression fractures in that area are likely to be rapidly fatal (not that you'll be awake to notice at the time). -- Mike B. At 10:24 AM 5/20/04 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote: >MIKE: 40MPH IS NOT LOW SPEED > > >--- Mike Bartman wrote: >> At 09:50 AM 5/20/04 -0400, cvkgpena@XXXXXX >> wrote: >> >Even at low speeds, banging into one (oh, like the >> curb) is gonna hurt and >> >having the right gear could make the difference >> between minor and major >> >injuries. >> >> Or make no difference at all...like the guy I read >> about once down in Va. >> Beach. Someone ran a red light (don't recall if it >> was the bike or the >> car) and a bike T-boned a car at almost 40 mph, >> launching the rider over >> the car. He flew until he hit the pavement, and >> slid head first into the >> curb. The impact killed him instantly. Ban curbs? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 14:05:32 2004 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Mike Bartman , Stephen Miller , DC Cycles Subject: Re: Why gear? Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 14:07:17 -0400 Cause it's glued to their skull and their is no possible room for the padding and such required for DOT. If it doesn't have like 1 inch of padding or so then my guess is it's not DOT. Hell at my MSF class some lady showed up and tried to pass his "Novelty" hemlet off as DOT. Instructor didn't buy it and made her where a full face helmet MSF provided. She could stop complaining about how she couldn't breath or see as well as a half helmet. Good thing she had it on cause she crashed like 3 times that weekend. Some people don't think they will ever crash, till they do :-) Rob On Thu, 20 May 2004 13:06:35 -0400, Mike Bartman wrote > At 08:56 AM 5/20/04 -0400, Stephen Miller wrote: > > >I see them frequently in MD and VA, non-DOT helmets with DOT stickers. > > If it has a DOT sticker, how do you know it isn't a DOT-approved helmet? > > -- Mike B. > > '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non- > Harley folks) > > Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes > is better. -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 14:07:49 2004 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 11:07:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Why gear? To: Mike Bartman , cvkgpena@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX So lets say there was no curb and he lived. Can you imagine the road rash and potential broken bones if h had been wearing a 'leather vest' and Billy Idol gloves? --- Mike Bartman wrote: > No, but it also isn't the speed he hit the curb at > either. There was > probably a little deceleration at the car, and > certainly a little more as > he slid on the pavement before reaching the curb. > Final speed is unknown. > Could be far less than 40 and still give the same > results though...the neck > just isn't all that strong, and multiple compression > fractures in that area > are likely to be rapidly fatal (not that you'll be > awake to notice at the > time). > > -- Mike B. > > At 10:24 AM 5/20/04 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote: > >MIKE: 40MPH IS NOT LOW SPEED > > > > > >--- Mike Bartman wrote: > >> At 09:50 AM 5/20/04 -0400, cvkgpena@XXXXXX > >> wrote: > >> >Even at low speeds, banging into one (oh, like > the > >> curb) is gonna hurt and > >> >having the right gear could make the difference > >> between minor and major > >> >injuries. > >> > >> Or make no difference at all...like the guy I > read > >> about once down in Va. > >> Beach. Someone ran a red light (don't recall if > it > >> was the bike or the > >> car) and a bike T-boned a car at almost 40 mph, > >> launching the rider over > >> the car. He flew until he hit the pavement, and > >> slid head first into the > >> curb. The impact killed him instantly. Ban > curbs? > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 14:17:10 2004 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 14:18:52 -0400 To: "Verde, Robert" , "Mark Kitchell" , "Stephen Miller" , "DC Cycles" From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: Helmets (Was: Why gear?) At 01:35 PM 5/20/04 -0400, Verde, Robert wrote: > that he also had a scabbard (complete with handle, I admit that I did not >actually see a sword blade) strapped across his back. It was a full-face >helmet, I believe the "handle" of a sword is more commonly referred to as a "hilt". The part you hold onto is the "grip". The knobby part on the end away from the blade is the pommel", and holds the grip onto the "tang", which is the blade extension that the grip wraps around. Depending on the type of sword, there may also have been one or more quillions (cross guard), or some other kind of hand protection. A "basket hilt" would be the sword equivalent of a full face helmet, wrapping around the hand as much as possible to limit injury. A knuckle bow would be more like a 3/4 helmet. I wonder what sort of drag he got from the horsehair plume on his helmet? Sounds wild anyway. >The German helmet design is a Stahlhelm, BTW. >http://www.inventionandtechnology.com/2003/01/feature.shtml >And, in the interest of fairness, there is a DOT version; >http://www.helmetsgonewild.com/?engine=adwords!1049&keyword=%28motorcycle+h elmet%29 Don't think I'd want to wear that downtown this Memorial Day...some of the old guys coming in for the WWII Memorial dedication might not have lost their reflexes yet... -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 14:32:07 2004 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 14:33:35 -0400 To: Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Why gear? At 01:47 PM 5/20/04 -0400, Dave Yates wrote: >Put on full face helmet, full leather suit. Walk outside to >the pavement. Stand straight up and let yourself fall over >backwards. Have a witness in case you lose conciousness; log >your injuries and rate the amount of pain on a scale of 1 -10. > >Now, remove all protective gear, and repeat the above >experiment with jeans, a tee shirt and tennis shoes on. > >Report back with results. Did that inadvertently a few years ago. Slipped on the ice in the driveway, with feet going completely out from under me, followed by a drop to the concrete. I was wearing jeans and a T-shirt and sneakers. Landed on my back, slightly turned to one side, so the left side got a bit more impact than the right. Result? No injuries at all...not even a scratch. Impact stung for a few seconds, particularly on my hand where I'd slapped a bit to help break the fall, but no other pain was involved. Had even less result going backwards down the stairs into the den from the foyer (4 steps, onto carpeted concrete...slipped on the marble tile in the foyer in my sock feet, got pulled off balance by a swinging Sunday Post while distracted by a friend, and down I went)). No bruises, cuts, abrasions, or pain of any sort. I did manage to knock an 8" hole in the wall halfway down though, where my hip hit right between two studs. Aikido class has come in very handy, even though I haven't been physically attacked by another person since I was in my teens. I recommend that everyone go learn to fall at the very least. There are Aikido dojos all around the area. Will that sort of training help with moto accidents? Maybe. It has with several folks I've talked to on pedal bikes who T-boned cars or otherwise ended up airborne at much greater than walking speeds. One rolled over the hood of the car that pulled out of an alley, and landed on his feet. Another ended up in a roll on the side of the road, and got nothing more than a few minor scratches (while wearing typical biking gear, not leathers). Nothing will always help (not even full face and full leathers), and lots of things can help under the right circumstances. Aikido training might very well be of some use...besides, it's fun! -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 14:34:38 2004 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 14:36:27 -0400 To: Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Why gear? At 01:49 PM 5/20/04 -0400, Dave Yates wrote: >Just to clarify this, I was commenting on Mike's response to >Chuck's gear advocacy... >>>Or make no difference at all... >Dave Yates I figured. My comment was aimed at the fatality end of the scale, BTW. Dead is dead. How far past fatal your injuries went doesn't really matter, so whether your helmet kept your skull intact while your neck shattered isn't really important. A helmet in such an accident will make no difference at all. Hope that's clearer now. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 15:03:57 2004 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 14:49:43 -0400 To: "Rob Sharp" , Stephen Miller , DC Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Why gear? At 02:07 PM 5/20/04 -0400, Rob Sharp wrote: >Cause it's glued to their skull and their is no possible room for the padding >and such required for DOT. If it doesn't have like 1 inch of padding or so >then my guess is it's not DOT. Sounds reasonable. Just for info, I just checked my half helmet. About an inch thick all around. >Hell at my MSF class some lady showed up and tried to pass his "Novelty" >hemlet off as DOT. Instructor didn't buy it and made her where a full face >helmet MSF provided. She could stop complaining about how she couldn't breath >or see as well as a half helmet. True, but she still wouldn't be seeing or breathing as well. I've worn both, and the FF does restrict breathing a bit, and peripheral vision, and hearing too. You also can't speak as clearly and be heard while wearing one. On a highway it doesn't matter...and a bit of hearing impairment is a Good Thing anyway, but other times it's nice to be able to catch movement to the side, or breath deeply without fogging up your field of view, or hear things behind you more easily, or exchange a comment with a riding partner at a light. For highway I prefer the Full Face. I took both up to York last Friday for the group ride to the H-D factory (nice tour BTW, but a lot like an airport security check-in for some reason). I wore the half-helmet up, and decided to wear the full face for the trip back. Too much 55mph and up speeds, even on the route we took (no interstate), and the wind beating gets old after a while. For the scavenger hunt ride around Montgomery County on Saturday A bit over 90 miles total, average speed about 35-40mph). I wore the half helmet, and was much more comfortable than I would have been with the full face (I've done similar rides with it), and it was a lot less hassle, given the frequent stops. The half helmet I could leave on, but I'd have had to take the full face off to deal with the folks at the stopping points. Didn't hit a single cicada on either ride, though there were a couple of near-misses, and in places I could hear them pretty loudly (while wearing the half helmet anyway :-). -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 15:04:55 2004 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:05:21 -0400 To: Mark Kitchell , cvkgpena@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Why gear? At 11:07 AM 5/20/04 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote: >So lets say there was no curb and he lived. Can you >imagine the road rash and potential broken bones if h >had been wearing a 'leather vest' and Billy Idol >gloves? Leather won't prevent broken bones (look at Evil Kneivel...he's said he just wears the leathers to hold things together for the ride to the hospital ;-), but it does help with road rash a lot. As for vests, if you can body surf on the vest (preferably covered with medallions for increased durability and cool sparks), it will protect as well as a jacket made of the same stuff. Tumble and you'll want some arms on the thing (I always wear some sort of jacket...just got a nylon/polyester one because it's cooler for the summer than my leather FXRG). Gloves? I've fallen on my pedal bikes as a kid lots of times (and skateboards, and roller skates)...never while wearing gloves, and sometimes on asphalt or worse (gravel embedded in tar was a favorite paving method in Norfolk at the time...after a few years it looks a lot like asphalt, except for the gravel teeth sticking up out of it...). The injuries were always to my palms...the part covered by the half-gloves...not to my fingers. Instinct splays the fingers out for impact, and tilts the hands up, you don't tend to make a fist to land on. Training has taught me that trying to land like that is stupid to start with...a great way to break wrists though. Is more equipment going to protect you in more situations than less? Probably. Is better quality equipment going to protect you in more situations than poorer quality equipment? Probably. Is protection in an accident the only factor to consider? Nope. If it was I wouldn't be riding in the first place. Everyone finds their own "comfort level". For some that's in a Volvo. For others it's in full leathers and full face helmet. For others it's a half helmet and shorty gloves. For still others it's a T-shirt and shorts. It can also vary with the type of riding being done, and where it's being done, and what the environment is at the time. It can also vary with stage of life too. Not everyone is 20-something and trying to look pretty to attract a mate. Priorities vary. How much life you are risking does too. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 15:12:43 2004 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 12:12:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Why gear? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Mike, you have written alot of crap but this one takes the cake: <> The stupidity of this comment is mind-boggling. You can surf on a loose vest, the leather is so much thinner than a quality jacket, no armor, on and on.... blah blah blah, drivel, blah..... Yep and seatbelts don't save lives, nor do airbags. Smoking is not bad for you, crack is good for your heart and you really CAN increase your d**k size by 30%! __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 15:13:07 2004 Subject: RE: Helmets (Was: Why gear?) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:12:54 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Mike Bartman" , "Mark Kitchell" , "Stephen Miller" , "DC Cycles" Unless of course we're talking Japanese swords, where we could get into discussions on such arcana as tsuba and the very collectible netsuke... Having beat a few leaf springs into edged weapons, I do know the lingo, but I was genericising to denote my uncertainty as to actual scabbard (sheath) contents. It would only be a hilt if it was actually a weapon, a musical saw, for a possible alternative that can be protected in a sheath, has the more generic handle. Whereas precision in all things is definitely desirable, there comes a point when overly pendantic phrasing tends to obscure ready assimilation of the transmitted information. For a note of irony, the modern GI issue Kevlar helmet most closely resembles the German WW1/WW2 model. Robert -----Original Message----- From: Mike Bartman [mailto:omni@XXXXXX] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 2:19 PM To: Verde, Robert; Mark Kitchell; Stephen Miller; DC Cycles Subject: RE: Helmets (Was: Why gear?) At 01:35 PM 5/20/04 -0400, Verde, Robert wrote: > that he also had a scabbard (complete with handle, I admit that I did not >actually see a sword blade) strapped across his back. It was a full-face >helmet, I believe the "handle" of a sword is more commonly referred to as a "hilt". The part you hold onto is the "grip". The knobby part on the end away from the blade is the pommel", and holds the grip onto the "tang", which is the blade extension that the grip wraps around. Depending on the type of sword, there may also have been one or more quillions (cross guard), or some other kind of hand protection. A "basket hilt" would be the sword equivalent of a full face helmet, wrapping around the hand as much as possible to limit injury. A knuckle bow would be more like a 3/4 helmet. I wonder what sort of drag he got from the horsehair plume on his helmet? Sounds wild anyway. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 15:16:42 2004 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: Mike Bartman , Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Why gear? Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:16:33 -0400 > > From: Mike Bartman > Date: 2004/05/20 Thu PM 02:33:35 EDT > To: Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Why gear? > > At 01:47 PM 5/20/04 -0400, Dave Yates wrote: > > >Put on full face helmet, full leather suit. Walk outside to > >the pavement. Stand straight up and let yourself fall over > >backwards. Have a witness in case you lose conciousness; log > >your injuries and rate the amount of pain on a scale of 1 -10. > > > >Now, remove all protective gear, and repeat the above > >experiment with jeans, a tee shirt and tennis shoes on. > > > >Report back with results. > > Did that inadvertently a few years ago. Slipped on the ice in the > driveway, with feet going completely out from under me, followed by a drop > to the concrete. I was wearing jeans and a T-shirt and sneakers. Landed > on my back, slightly turned to one side, so the left side got a bit more > impact than the right. > > Result? No injuries at all...not even a scratch. Didn't land on your head though, did you. Tell you what, try the same thing, but jump off a bicycle at about 20mph. Hmm, no, don't want to damage the bicyle. I got it: get someone to drive through a parking lot at about 20mph, then jump out the passenger door in full gear. Repeat in shorts and T-shirt. Report back. Bob Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" '92 ST1100, "red STag" '02 919, "still looking for a name" A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers.... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 15:23:42 2004 From: bernescut@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Greetlets Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:23:16 -0400 Welcome Andy! If I get a babysitter (At 2&1/2 I can no longer stuff her in the tankbag) I'll be at CarPool's as well. I'll be the bald guy on the yellow CBR. Cedric Bernescut 2000 CBR600F4 Annandale, VA Get your drug-free boost: http://tinyurl.com/zbgs I'll be going to Bike Night so am looking forward to meeting a bunch of new riders. Look for the bald guy on the Black CBR drooling over anything chrome. Maybe that should narrow it down to about 50 people? Cheers, /Andy From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 15:31:20 2004 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:31:00 -0400 From: Brian Roach To: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Why gear? Mike Bartman wrote: > Leather won't prevent broken bones No, but the armor and padding often contained therein will. That's what it's there for - it absorbs and/or distributes the impact force over a greater area. Mike, sometimes your logic truly baffles me. Come off a bike at about 50mph sometime and let me know how the no-gear thing works out. Having come off of them from speeds anywhere between 40mph and 100+mph, I gotta tell you ... the results would have been vastly different in every case had I been wearing a T-shirt instead of full leathers (with body armor), back protector, boots, gloves, etc. I have gotten up, dusted myself off, and walked away from what a squid in minimal or no gear would be in the hospital for skin grafts. The abrasions left in leathers don't lie. In 6 years, I've gone through 3 helmets ... one get-off, at what would have been a legal street speed (~50mph), left deep abrasions in the chin bar... my chin wouldn't have faired so well in a half or even 3/4 helmet. As for the whole breathing and vision thing, that's pure nonsense and anti-helmet zealot rhetoric. I have never had a problem breathing, even in 100 degree heat while racing which is a fairly strenuous activity. I would challenge you to find a racer that has. If people choose not to wear gear that is *very likely* to minimize damage to themselves in the event of a crash, that's fine. It's their skin, and statistically, you're actually not very likely to need it if you're a responsible rider. However ... trying to rationalize that act by telling yourself it wouldn't help or make a difference in most cases just boggles the mind. - Roach -- http://www.speedwerks.com The one-stop shop for all your motorcycling needs! (302) 672 - 7223 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 15:35:55 2004 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:35:50 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Why gear? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX MB clarifies: > My comment was aimed at the fatality end of the scale, BTW. >Dead is dead. How far past fatal your injuries went doesn't >really matter... [Dave] It is clearer, and your point is a legitimate one, but I would point out we do get periodic Newbies who come here seeking input. It has been a long tradition (which should never be broken in my opinion) of DCC that if you can afford the bike, you can afford good gear. Good gear is cheaper than a hospital stay for road rash and skin grafts. While I don't think I ever directly asked, it was this very list which convinced me to buy gear as a relatively new moto rider. None of us here wants to ever find out that a DCC member did not survive a get off where gear would've made the difference. Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 15:42:49 2004 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Why gear? Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:42:39 -0400 > From: Mark Kitchell >and you really CAN increase your d**k size by 30%! Nah, I'm afraid I'd hurt my wife if I did that..... Bob Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" '92 ST1100, "red STag" '02 919, "still looking for a name" A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers.... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 15:50:24 2004 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:50:04 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: "Smith,Andrew" , DC Cycles Subject: Re: Greetlets -----Original Message----- From: "Smith, Andrew" Hello everyone, My name's Andy and I've been lurking on this group for a couple of days so thought it was about time I introduced myself. Seems like a great group you've got going here, very informative, little BS. .... --------- Are you sure you didn't cross-post by accident? Doesn't sound like the DC-Cycles list I know and love, esp. having just "bulk-deleted" the "Why gear?" thread. Anyway, welcome to the nuthouse Andy! :) Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 15:52:01 2004 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 09:56:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Steven Burrow Subject: RE: Report the idiot cage driver To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Real problem with this one. Basically, there is no way to say who was driving at the time. Why should a letter go into my file if someone else was at fault? Steve '01 YZF __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 16:02:23 2004 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 16:02:19 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: RE: Report the idiot cage driver Same as a red light camera violation - you are responsible for the vehicle registered in your name. At least it isn't a blind fine money maker like the red light and speed cameras. At 12:56 PM 5/20/2004, Steven Burrow wrote: >Real problem with this one. >Basically, there is no way to say who was driving at >the time. Why should a letter go into my file if >someone else was at fault? ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org When weapons are blunted, and ardor dampened, strength exhausted, and resources depleted, the neighboring rulers will take advantage of these complications - Sun Tzu From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 16:09:33 2004 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 16:09:16 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: Sean Steele , DC Cycles Subject: Re: A (im)Modest Proposal -----Original Message----- From: Sean Steele Permit me to get philosophical for a moment. Beyond the prosaic financial, spatial, and maintenance considerations of buying a second (or newer/better/different) bike, how does one stay happy with what they currently ride? ----- Get married?? :) Thoughts of multiple bike lust usually go out the window once you have to run purchases past the "War Dept." Although, I have to give Christina credit, she's been put up with four bike purchases so far and lets me keep two motorcycles about the place. Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 16:15:56 2004 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 16:15:52 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: Troutman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Report the idiot cage driver -----Original Message----- From: Troutman Same as a red light camera violation - you are responsible for the vehicle registered in your name. At least it isn't a blind fine money maker like the red light and speed cameras. At 12:56 PM 5/20/2004, Steven Burrow wrote: >Real problem with this one. >Basically, there is no way to say who was driving at >the time. Why should a letter go into my file if >someone else was at fault? ---- Sounds like a feel-good measure that will have no effect in bringing the truly dangerous road menaces to heel. I doubt any of the anonymously-reported information in one's "file" could ever be used at trial. IANAL, but it sounds a lot like "hearsay" to me. Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 16:41:27 2004 Subject: RE: A (im)Modest Proposal Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 16:41:17 -0400 From: "Smith, Andrew" To: "Sean Steele" , "DC Cycles" Sean, Modifications, brother! Whether aesthetic or engine-tuning, easy or hard to install, worthless or worthwhile, I use any excuse to get down and dirty with my bike. Nothing makes me happier than spilling bike guts all over the place, learning how a new bit works, or installing something I find visually appealing and then managing to botch it back together again (for the most part). It's the spirit of constant improvement that attracts me, and I think (maybe misguidedly) that it helps me to know my bike even better. Other than that, unless you're a Moto GP racer, I think that self-improvement is the key to continual bike enjoyment. On my last bike I thought I was getting bored with it but in reality what I was hitting was a personal technique barrier - as I learned to cope with riding higher revs, faster corners I unlocked more potential in the bike and thus enjoyed it even more. Again, unless you ride an RS50 I doubt many of us are able to express the full potential of the bike safely on the road. How about a track day sometime Sean? Cheers, /Andy > -----Original Message----- > From: Sean Steele > Permit me to get philosophical for a moment. > > Beyond the prosaic financial, spatial, and maintenance > considerations of buying a second (or newer/better/different) > bike, how does one stay happy with what they currently ride? > ----- From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 17:17:48 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 17:17:39 EDT Subject: Re: A (im)Modest Proposal To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 5/19/2004 8:37:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mike@XXXXXX writes: > I don't feel much of the oscillation anymore, but there is some > still there. It is in the nature of motorcycles to have some oscillation. Let go of the handlebars as the bike slows and virtually every bike will "wobble" some. If everything else checks out and it is just a little wiggle I would just ignore it. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC 1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European 1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles 1976, Honda CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 17:18:13 2004 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 17:11:57 -0400 To: "Verde, Robert" , "DC Cycles" From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: Helmets (Was: Why gear?) At 03:12 PM 5/20/04 -0400, Verde, Robert wrote: >Whereas precision in all things is definitely desirable, there comes a point when overly pendantic phrasing tends to obscure ready assimilation of the transmitted information. When it comes to arcane technical jargon in a non-technical forum, I agree fully. I don't think "hilt" is all that obscure for most folks though. Now if we got into talking about European plate armor from the 15th and 16th centuries, using descriptive terms rather than actual names might be wise. While most folks probably know what "greaves" are from watching gladiator movies, "cuises" or "pauldron" is going to slip past almost everyone who hasn't looked into the subject I suspect, and the less exact, but more understandable terms, "thigh armor" and "shoulder armor" are better. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 17:18:14 2004 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 17:19:57 -0400 To: Mark Kitchell , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Why gear? At 12:12 PM 5/20/04 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote: >Mike, you have written alot of crap but this one takes >the cake: > ><(preferably covered with medallions for increased >durability and cool sparks), it will protect >as well as a jacket made of the same stuff. >> > >The stupidity of this comment is mind-boggling. You I guess the "cool sparks" from the medallions bit wasn't enough to twig it for the humor impaired... >Yep and seatbelts don't save lives, nor do airbags. Not always they don't. Sometimes they kill people. Had a roommate who's mother was killed because she was wearing a seatbelt at the time of an accident. Without it on she'd probably have lived...according to the rescue folks who pried her out of the wreckage (side impact...she was held in the seat instead of being thrown onto the other side of the vehicle where there was almost no damage...so the metal folded around her, cut her up, and she bled to death before they could get her out). Air bags kill lots of people...those larger or smaller than they were designed for...ask the feds about it. >Smoking is not bad for you, Depends on many other factors. Won't hurt you a bit if you are a humor-impaired jerk. Something else is likely to get you killed a lot sooner than lung cancer or a heart attack. >heart and you really CAN increase your d**k size by 30%! You can't do that??? Wow. Ok, I guess that explains why you are so cranky... -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 17:18:56 2004 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 14:18:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Why gear? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Skip wrote: > > > Brian Roach wrote: > > > > > But I'm happier being safer than sorry. It goes back to that > risk/reward > > thing. I don't really mind wearing the gear, so there's not much > reward > > (to me) in risking not wearing it. > > I feel naked and uncomfortable without gear on. > > Years ago maryland had no helmet law, and two times I rode sans helmet. > I was > too uncomfortable without my lid and stopped both times after about 10 > minutes > to put it back on. I did that too back in the '70's. I rode through the state and, just for the heck of it, took my helmet off. A few minutes later I put it back on. > > --skip > Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 17:28:48 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 17:28:34 EDT Subject: Re: Why gear? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 5/19/2004 11:40:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, omni@XXXXXX writes: > I've not seen a Harley rider (or any other rider) in a helmet-requiring > state (like VA or MD) with a non-DOT helmet...and I've ridden with dozens > of them in the last few months. Many do wear half-helmets, but all are > DOT-approved. That is funny, I see them all the time, hell you can see them clean across the road. It is easy to tell, the helmet sits close to the head, more like a fiberglass hat then a helmet due to the lack of an impact absorbing liner. There is a big difference between a helmet with a sticker that says dot (as in period) and one that has a Department Of Transportation approval sticker. And I do not give a (*&^) if _you_ wear a lid or not it aint none of my business. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC 1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European 1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles 1976, Honda CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 17:41:00 2004 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:50:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Steven Burrow Subject: RE: Report the idiot cage driver To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX It's not the same as the cameras. There is physical evidence of your vehicle going through the light on red. All we have is someones word in this case and who's to say they aren't just making it up. Steve '01 YZF __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 17:58:49 2004 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 18:00:31 -0400 To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX, Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Re: Why gear? At 03:16 PM 5/20/04 -0400, Bob Meyer wrote: >> From: Mike Bartman >> to the concrete. I was wearing jeans and a T-shirt and sneakers. Landed >> on my back, slightly turned to one side, so the left side got a bit more >> impact than the right. >> >> Result? No injuries at all...not even a scratch. > >Didn't land on your head though, did you. Nope. Keeping the head tucked forward is something you learn early on when learning to fall like that. Even on a padded mat it will ring your chimes if you don't. The rest of your post seems to have missed most of my point, and concentrated on something I never said. I never said that you wouldn't get hurt if you weren't wearing the gear required to survive a given accident unscathed. If you end up needing gear that you aren't wearing, you will get hurt more than if you were wearing it. Period. The discussions stem from differences of opinion over the likelihood of any given kind of accident for a given rider, and the tolerance level for the results, not about what will happen to them physically if it occurs. There are lots of accident scenarios, lots of gear combinations, and lots of different tolerances for injury. The idea that if you don't wear full race gear every time you ride you will get seriously injured the first time you have an accident is as wrong as the idea that you can wear shorts and a T-shirt and never get hurt no matter what happens. The more gear you wear, the more accident scenarios you can survive with minimal damage. Protection...protects, to some extent anyway. On the other hand, the more gear you wear, the more hassle is involved in riding in the first place, and if you enclose yourself in enough bulky hot stuff to limit your risk, you might as well just get another pair of wheels and "dress" in steel and glass...you'll have stopped experiencing your environment and taken to making your own anyway. Where you land along the continuum will vary. Some aren't bothered by full leathers and helmet, and don't feel comfortable without it. Some feel the same way about 4 wheels and a steel cage. Some are fine with just a jacket and a 3/4 helmet and good boots and gloves. Some are fine with jeans and a T-shirt and a pair of sunglasses. I doubt that any who ride are unaware of the risks, or what *can* happen, and *has* happened, to some people in the past, and which will likely happen again to *someone*, *sometime* again. Some are just more worried about it than others. I asked a non-helmet wearer why they didn't wear a helmet once. "Don't like 'em." was the answer I got. When I asked if he was aware of the likely outcome if he had an accident where his head hit something solid without a helmet, he said, "Yeah, probably the same thing as if I hit something a little harder with one on...I'll probably die. But until then, I'll *live*." Riding without a helmet is riskier than riding with one. Helmets aren't expensive compared to a bike, or even to gas these days (basic cheap half helmet: $50. Fill up at the Airpark Shell this morning: ~$10), so riding without one isn't necessary. On the other hand, extreme skiing is riskier than staying on the bunny slope, and it isn't necessary either...but people still do it, and sometimes die in the process. Is it worth it? Apparently it is to them. Everybody dies sometime. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 17:59:08 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 17:58:55 EDT Subject: Re: A (im)Modest Proposal To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 5/19/2004 8:01:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time, sean@XXXXXX writes: > how does one stay > happy with what they currently ride? Before you buy: A: A solid knowledge of yourself, your riding style and needs. Knowing what you need a bike to do, and what you want it to do. B: A solid knowledge of the motorcycle market, what is out there, and how it works so that you can match A+B Then look at all the bikes that match A+B and pick the one that tickles your cookies. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC 1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European 1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles 1976, Honda CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 18:11:42 2004 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 18:13:28 -0400 From: Laura Roach To: Mike Bartman CC: rmeyer9@XXXXXX, Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Why gear? Mike Bartman wrote: >The discussions stem >from differences of opinion over the likelihood of any given kind of >accident for a given rider, and the tolerance level for the results, not >about what will happen to them physically if it occurs. > > > Ahhh, I get it now. You're one of those "it'll never happen to me" people!?!? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 18:34:05 2004 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 18:29:39 -0400 To: Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Why gear? At 03:35 PM 5/20/04 -0400, Dave Yates wrote: >than a hospital stay for road rash and skin grafts. While I >don't think I ever directly asked, it was this very list >which convinced me to buy gear as a relatively new moto >rider. As a new rider back in the early 80s I always wore a leather moto jacket (Hein Gerike) and a full face SNELL-approved helmet (Bell) and full gloves that fit up over the wrists of the jacket (helps limit the sleeves rolling up in a slide is my theory), jeans and Bike Boots (steel toes, halfway up the calves heavy leather, non-skid soles). When I got back into riding last fall I got even better gear, and I always wore it. Re-learning to ride and being on a new and unfamiliar bike were both big risk increasers, and I wanted all the protection I could get to bring it back down to an acceptable level. I still have that gear, and I still wear it sometimes...when it's colder, or when the ride is something new where I'm not sure I have a good grip on how I'll handle it. It was 85 degrees on the ride up to Delaware, but I wore the FXRG jacket and full face helmet and full gloves. I was pretty warm, sweated a bunch, and got comments about how much gear I was wearing from several others ("Aren't you hot?" "That's what the ladies tell me...", ha ha ha...), but I hadn't done an interstate trip of that distance, or with a large group, before, so I wanted all the protection I could stand. I didn't wear the leather pants (wore jeans), but I wore all the rest. At Mike's Famous, I decided I could risk some finger damage, and got half gloves. Besides cooling my hands a fair bit, they also let air up the sleeves of the jacket, which cooled things considerably on the ride home (which wasn't much interstate...301 to 50 then up to 32). For York I took both helmets (full and half), and wore the FXRG...but it was *really* hot (same temps as the Delaware trip, but slower speeds and more stops), so in York I got a nylon/polyester jacket that's a lot lighter weight, but should still offer some protection in a fall. There's some padding at joints and down the back, and it's slippery. It's not race gear, but it's a whole lot better than a T-shirt. That's what I rode home in, with the FXRG in a saddlebag. It's what I've been wearing on rides since then too. Still not *cool*, but better. I'll go back to the FXRG when it starts to cool down in the fall, or maybe if I end up with another high speed interstate run even while it's hot out. I always wear my moto boots (a lot like combat boots in design), as I don't like broken toes from rocks, if I fall the ankles will be more likely to survive, and even in 90 degree heat, they don't bother me any. Reasons to wear them, and none not to, so I wear them. It's a balancing act. Comfort, enjoyment, protection, risk, tolerance of injury. It shifts all the time as I learn more about my capabilities and those of the bike, and as I get better at riding, and as the riding I'm doing at the moment changes. What gear I pick changes as a result. Newbies should wear as much as they can. Those who push the envelope should too, no matter how much experience they have. For the rest, it's a judgement call. As my dad liked to say when I was growing up, "You pays your money and you takes your chances." If it's worth it to take some increased risk, take it. Otherwise don't. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 18:36:34 2004 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 18:38:09 -0400 To: Laura Roach From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Why gear? Cc: rmeyer9@XXXXXX, Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 06:13 PM 5/20/04 -0400, Laura Roach wrote: >Mike Bartman wrote: > >>The discussions stem >>from differences of opinion over the likelihood of any given kind of >>accident for a given rider, and the tolerance level for the results, not >>about what will happen to them physically if it occurs. >> >Ahhh, I get it now. You're one of those "it'll never happen to me" >people!?!? No, you don't get it now. I never said that at all. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 19:49:01 2004 From: Stephen Miller Subject: Re: Why gear? Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 19:49:12 -0400 To: DC Cycles I know by looking. Anyone who knows helmets well enough can tell. It helps that I used to sell helmets and riding gear, but if you look around a lot you can start to see the difference, even from several feet away at a stoplight. Even at speed, sometimes. DOT doesn't approve beanies. Beanies are distinct from half-helmets, btw. They're much smaller, with no foam liner to speak of. I first saw such helmets for sale, and DOT stickers for sale at the same booth, back in 1994 at Laconia. They exist, it's not a myth. On May 20, 2004, at 1:06 PM, Mike Bartman wrote: > > If it has a DOT sticker, how do you know it isn't a DOT-approved > helmet? > > -- Mike B. > > '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley > folks) > > Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's > mistakes > is better. > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 19:58:32 2004 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 16:58:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: RE: Report the idiot cage driver To: Steven Burrow , dc-cycles@XXXXXX insurance companies aren't required to adhere to the rules of evidence.... dave yates' (i believe it was dave) comment make perfect sense. these types of information-gathering efforts will lead to nothing but higher insurance costs (for all of us) over the long haul. don't participate. --- Steven Burrow wrote: > It's not the same as the cameras. There is physical > evidence of your vehicle going through the light on > red. All we have is someones word in this case and > who's to say they aren't just making it up. > > Steve > '01 YZF __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 19:59:15 2004 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 16:59:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: A (im)Modest Proposal To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX cupped front tire? --- PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > In a message dated 5/19/2004 8:37:06 PM Eastern Daylight > Time, > mike@XXXXXX writes: > > > I don't feel much of the oscillation anymore, but there > is some > > still there. > > It is in the nature of motorcycles to have some > oscillation. Let go of the > handlebars as the bike slows and virtually every bike > will "wobble" some. If > everything else checks out and it is just a little wiggle > I would just ignore it. > > > > > John Walters (Long John) > PenguinBiker@XXXXXX > Up near DC > > 1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European > 1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles > 1976, Honda CR250M Motowhat racer > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 20:01:28 2004 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 17:01:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Why gear? To: Mike Bartman , Mark Kitchell , dc-cycles@XXXXXX lol. try harder if you want to pull your head out of your ass. when you typed it, you meant it. --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 12:12 PM 5/20/04 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote: > >Mike, you have written alot of crap but this one takes > >the cake: > > > >< >(preferably covered with medallions for increased > >durability and cool sparks), it will protect > >as well as a jacket made of the same stuff. >> > > > >The stupidity of this comment is mind-boggling. You > > I guess the "cool sparks" from the medallions bit wasn't > enough to twig it > for the humor impaired... > > >Yep and seatbelts don't save lives, nor do airbags. > > Not always they don't. Sometimes they kill people. Had > a roommate who's > mother was killed because she was wearing a seatbelt at > the time of an > accident. Without it on she'd probably have > lived...according to the > rescue folks who pried her out of the wreckage (side > impact...she was held > in the seat instead of being thrown onto the other side > of the vehicle > where there was almost no damage...so the metal folded > around her, cut her > up, and she bled to death before they could get her out). > Air bags kill > lots of people...those larger or smaller than they were > designed for...ask > the feds about it. > > >Smoking is not bad for you, > > Depends on many other factors. Won't hurt you a bit if > you are a > humor-impaired jerk. Something else is likely to get you > killed a lot > sooner than lung cancer or a heart attack. > > >heart and you really CAN increase your d**k size by 30%! > > You can't do that??? Wow. Ok, I guess that explains why > you are so cranky... > > -- Mike B. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 20:08:13 2004 From: Stephen Miller Subject: Re: Why gear? Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 20:08:28 -0400 To: DC Cycles On May 20, 2004, at 3:12 PM, Mark Kitchell wrote: > > Yep and seatbelts don't save lives, nor do airbags. They (seatbelts) might not always save lives *on net* (S. Peltzman 1975), but clearly they save more lives of people who wear them. Careful, though. A good study of motorcycle accidents may show that wearing less gear can make some (maybe older, cruiser-buying) riders be more cautious. My guess, though, is that riding gearless is often more about low risk aversion and/or crash optimism that affects every aspect of riding. As for airbags, it's well known that they're mixed bags, pardon the pun. Not good for kids, possibly a problem for small women, etc. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 20:53:35 2004 From: "W.S." To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Heading for Hadaes??? Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 20:53:26 -0400 Bob Ryan (Ch4 Weather) said tonight we're headed for the warmest May on record. Let's see. That leaves June, July, August, September eligible for new highs also. Piling up early riding time. Incidentally, an aside re The Preakness which, on a whim, I attempted to attend last Saturday. As a P. newbie, thought 9a would be a comfortable arrival time for 6:15p race - close in parking, etc. Not a chance. Many buses, cone-laned roads, police, already crowds jamming traffic. Opted to visit Harford County friends. Would try for at least 7a next time. Bill S. / DC '99 VN750 > liquid cooled Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 20:57:13 2004 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 20:44:40 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Bruce Brownlee Subject: Re: Why gear? This is easy to solve..... The problem is not that peoples opinions vary about what gear should be worn, its primarily one thing..... People seem to feel the need to attack a group and stereotype with no regard for truth. This winds up insulting someone and the arguement rapidly turns into a "who's got the biggest dick" contest. I'd love to have a rational conversation about motorcycles, ANY aspect of them (performance, ability, gear, etc) that didnt start with "how come I see all the harley/sportbike/etc riders....." Face it guys, when you start it that way, it is painfully obvious you dont want an answer to the question, you just want to attack a group to build up your own ego. It used to be called 'flamebait', now its called conversation. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 21:39:19 2004 From: "W.S." To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: New Biker in Need of Advice Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 21:39:09 -0400 Seconding Coleman's Powersports in Falls Church, probably the most Metro-accessible large dealer from the middle of DC. Orange Line to E. Falls Church, 10m bus ride to almost front door. [Note: Previous angst on this list re Colemans.] Bill S. / DC '99 VN750 > I want to be included in "Bike on Metro". Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. *********** From: "marc shaller" I am a new biker looking for a good place in and around the District to purchase motorcycle gear. I don't have a car so it would have to be metro accessible. ...snip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 21:42:12 2004 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 21:41:40 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: A (im)Modest Proposal At 07:59 PM 5/20/2004, you wrote: >cupped front tire? New front and back. I think the front axle bolt was too tight causing a rub. _____________________________________ Mike Troutman mike@XXXXXX http://www.troutman.org/vfr '97 Honda VFR 750 AMA - http://www.amadirectlink.com/ NMA - http://www.motorists.org "I'd rather die while I'm living, then live while I'm dead." - Jimmy Buffett From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu May 20 23:26:30 2004 Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 23:27:20 -0400 To: Tom Gimer , Mark Kitchell , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Why gear? At 05:01 PM 5/20/04 -0700, Tom Gimer wrote: >lol. try harder if you want to pull your head out of your >ass. when you typed it, you meant it. Go fuck a goat. As usual, you couldn't buy a clue if you wanted one. -- Mike B. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 00:48:07 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 00:47:59 EDT Subject: Re: A (im)Modest Proposal To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 5/20/2004 7:59:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time, t_gimer@XXXXXX writes: > cupped front tire? No need for anything at all to be wrong. Spinning objects tend to oscillate. Think of a shopping cart, if you push one too fast the front wheels just go nuts. Well a bike uses the same kind of rake/trail system to keep the front wheel straight. The trick with bikes is to make the wobble occur at slow safe speeds (where even hands resting on the bars will usually damp the motion) instead of high speeds where it can throw a rider off. The Kawasaki 750 triple was famous for going into a violent wobble at anything over 80, if you fought it the bike would throw you off. That is not to say that nothing is wrong, if someone feels that the wobble is unnatural it should be checked out. It is just that it _may_ be nothing. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC 1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European 1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles 1976, Honda CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 00:51:17 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 00:51:07 EDT Subject: Re: Why gear? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 5/20/2004 8:08:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, freecat@XXXXXX writes: > As for airbags, it's well known that they're mixed bags, No one is ever going to convince me that having an explosive device (and it is literally a bomb) pointed at your chest is a good idea. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 01:05:15 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 01:05:03 EDT Subject: Re: A (im)Modest Proposal To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 5/20/2004 9:42:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mike@XXXXXX writes: > I think the front axle bolt was too tight causing a rub. WHOA! That should not be possible. The axel tightens down on a heavy steel spacer, then an inner bearing race, then on a long spacer that goes between bearings, inner race, spacer again, there should be nothing in that system that could be compressed enough to cause drag short of ungodly torque, and I mean breaker bar with a length of pipe added for leverage. ( I have seen the inner spacer left out by various doofs, that will damn sure cause drag. (Until the bearing explodes.)) John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC 1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European 1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles 1976, Honda CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 07:04:30 2004 Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 04:04:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Why gear? To: Mike Bartman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 05:01 PM 5/20/04 -0700, Tom Gimer wrote: > >lol. try harder if you want to pull your head out of > your > >ass. when you typed it, you meant it. > > Go fuck a goat. As usual, you couldn't buy a clue if you > wanted one. ah, how special. here's an idea, windbag: let's poll the list and see if anyone is tired of (i) your holier than thou attitude, (ii) your 300-mile-slab-to-delaware-makes-me-an-experienced-rider stories, or (iii) your sidestep anyone who actually calls my bullshit tactics. three votes here. -- tg __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 07:57:37 2004 Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 07:56:37 -0400 (EDT) From: dan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Why gear? On Thu, 20 May 2004, Stephen Miller wrote: > I know by looking. Anyone who knows helmets well enough can tell. It > helps that I used to sell helmets and riding gear, but if you look > around a lot you can start to see the difference, even from several > feet away at a stoplight. Even at speed, sometimes. > > DOT doesn't approve beanies. Beanies are distinct from half-helmets, > btw. They're much smaller, with no foam liner to speak of. I first saw > such helmets for sale, and DOT stickers for sale at the same booth, > back in 1994 at Laconia. They exist, it's not a myth. > > On May 20, 2004, at 1:06 PM, Mike Bartman wrote: > > > > If it has a DOT sticker, how do you know it isn't a DOT-approved > > helmet? > > Stephen, Mike continues to claim that he never sees Hardley riders wearing beanies, yet everyone else has. I see them every weekend, can spot them at speed too. Dan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 08:19:04 2004 From: Stephen Miller Subject: Re: Why gear? Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 08:19:20 -0400 To: DC Cycles To be totally fair, I've seen such helmets worn by metric cruiser riders, and *gasp* sportbike riders in the last few years. Never on a Beemer, though. That'd be a sight, a reflective and waterproof armored BMW-spec textile suit with sticker-covered beanie (THE BITCH FELL OFF!!) to top it off. On May 21, 2004, at 7:56 AM, dan wrote: > > Stephen, > > Mike continues to claim that he never sees Hardley riders wearing > beanies, > yet everyone else has. I see them every weekend, can spot them at > speed > too. > > Dan > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 08:29:21 2004 Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 08:28:26 -0400 From: Tom To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Why gear? Tom Gimer wrote: >--- Mike Bartman wrote: > > >>At 05:01 PM 5/20/04 -0700, Tom Gimer wrote: >> >> >> > >ah, how special. > >here's an idea, windbag: let's poll the list and see if >anyone is tired of (i) your holier than thou attitude, (ii) >your >300-mile-slab-to-delaware-makes-me-an-experienced-rider >stories, or (iii) your sidestep anyone who actually calls >my bullshit tactics. > >three votes here. > > 3 here, if only for the 3 page posts. >-- >tg > > > Tom de '98 VTR > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year >http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 08:45:20 2004 Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 05:45:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Wife Hits Husband on Motorcycle: Helmet Saves His Life To: DC Cycles From the Edmonton Sun, May 18th/2004: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wife plows into hubby A motorcyclist sustained a fractured ankle last night after his speed bike was hit from behind by a pickup truck driven by his wife, police say. The man was headed north on 66 Street near 133 Avenue about 9 p.m. His wife was following behind in a Z-71 truck, police said. A witness said the biker had been speaking with someone in the truck at an earlier set of lights and then raced ahead. He was later forced to change lanes when an emergency vehicle with it's lights on came up from behind, said Doreen Czajkowsky. "All of a sudden the motorcycle pulled in front and slowed right down," she said. While police continue to investigate, they figure the pickup driver may not have seen the motorcycle slow down, said Sgt. Dana Donald. Czajkowsky said she was startled by the sound of the crash. "It was the crack of the helmet (on the pavement) that made an incredible sound," said Czajkowsky, herself a motorcyclist. "His helmet saved his life." "He was pretty mad with his wife." Paramedics took the man, described as in his mid-30's, to the Royal Alexandra hospital. He was in stable condition with non-life threatening injuries, said EMS Supt. Craig O'Callaghan. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 09:11:23 2004 From: "John White" To: markkitchell@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Wife Hits Husband on Motorcycle: Helmet Saves His Life Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 08:59:33 -0400 DAMN, taken out by your own Mrs. Cager. >From: Mark Kitchell >To: DC Cycles >Subject: Wife Hits Husband on Motorcycle: Helmet Saves His Life >Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 05:45:06 -0700 (PDT) > >From the Edmonton Sun, May 18th/2004: > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Wife plows into hubby > >A motorcyclist sustained a fractured ankle last night >after his speed >bike was >hit from behind by a pickup truck driven by his wife, >police say. > >The man was headed north on 66 Street near 133 Avenue >about 9 p.m. His >wife was >following behind in a Z-71 truck, police said. > >A witness said the biker had been speaking with >someone in the truck at >an >earlier set of lights and then raced ahead. > >He was later forced to change lanes when an emergency >vehicle with it's >lights >on came up from behind, said Doreen Czajkowsky. > >"All of a sudden the motorcycle pulled in front and >slowed right down," >she >said. > >While police continue to investigate, they figure the >pickup driver may >not >have seen the motorcycle slow down, said Sgt. Dana >Donald. > >Czajkowsky said she was startled by the sound of the >crash. > >"It was the crack of the helmet (on the pavement) that >made an >incredible >sound," said Czajkowsky, herself a motorcyclist. "His >helmet saved his >life." > >"He was pretty mad with his wife." > >Paramedics took the man, described as in his mid-30's, >to the Royal >Alexandra >hospital. He was in stable condition with non-life >threatening >injuries, said >EMS Supt. Craig O'Callaghan. > > > > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year >http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 09:14:29 2004 Subject: RE: Wife Hits Husband on Motorcycle: Helmet Saves His Life Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 09:14:21 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "John White" , , Hey, she is a motoryclist too, according to the story. So much for the theory that if you ride you are more aware of other riders, even when driving a cage... LOL Robert -----Original Message----- From: John White [mailto:kokopellian@XXXXXX] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 9:00 AM To: markkitchell@XXXXXX; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Wife Hits Husband on Motorcycle: Helmet Saves His Life DAMN, taken out by your own Mrs. Cager. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 09:25:39 2004 From: Kirk Roy To: Subject: Re: Why gear? Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 9:25:31 -0400 Tom Gimer wrote: > --- Mike Bartman wrote: > > At 05:01 PM 5/20/04 -0700, Tom Gimer wrote: > > >lol. try harder if you want to pull your head out of > > your > > >ass. when you typed it, you meant it. > > > > Go fuck a goat. As usual, you couldn't buy a clue if > > you wanted one. > > ah, how special. > > here's an idea, windbag: let's poll the list and see if > anyone is tired of (i) your holier than thou attitude, > (ii) your 300-mile-slab-to-delaware-makes-me-an-experienced-rider > stories, or (iii) your sidestep anyone who actually calls > my bullshit tactics. > > three votes here. I've got Mike filtered now so, outside of you guys replying to him, I don't see his messages at all. I vote all three as well. Of course, I'm not terribly active on the list any more... Whatever happened to the good old days with Brina, Squeekers, and other actually interesting characters? Kirk From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 09:32:20 2004 Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 09:32:10 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: A (im)Modest Proposal Cc: mike@XXXXXX -----Original Message----- From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Sent: May 21, 2004 12:47 AM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: A (im)Modest Proposal In a message dated 5/20/2004 7:59:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time, t_gimer@XXXXXX writes: > cupped front tire? No need for anything at all to be wrong. Spinning objects tend to oscillate. Think of a shopping cart, if you push one too fast the front wheels just go nuts. Well a bike uses the same kind of rake/trail system to keep the front wheel straight. The trick with bikes is to make the wobble occur at slow safe speeds (where even hands resting on the bars will usually damp the motion) instead of high speeds where it can throw a rider off. The Kawasaki 750 triple was famous for going into a violent wobble at anything over 80, if you fought it the bike would throw you off. ----------- Just a data point for Mike or anyone who's interested. Every Dunlop tire I had on my 95 VFR (D205 and D207) developed a decel wobble at precisely 35-40 mph. Something about the tread pattern, the steel belts inside the tire, or whatever. Bike just didn't like 'em. I never tried a D220, though. Nothing violent or uncontrollable, just noticeable, esp. with hard bags on the bike. Bridgestone BT010s and Pirelli Diablos: no wobble. Even a severely worn cupped-all-to-hell BT010. Rock solid. Weird. ---------- Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 09:37:20 2004 Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 09:36:45 -0400 To: "DC Cycles" From: Troutman Subject: Re: A (im)Modest Proposal >> > I think the front axle bolt was too tight causing a rub. >> >>WHOA! That should not be possible.... >>there should be nothing in that system that could be compressed enough to >>cause >>drag short of ungodly torque, It is possible to have the front incorrectly positioned before tightening the axle pinch bolts causing a rub. It doesn't matter any more, it is running fine now, and torqued to spec. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles. One who does not know the enemy but knows himself will sometimes win, sometimes lose. One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself will be in danger in every battle. - Sun Tzu From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 10:00:12 2004 From: "Perry Coleman" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Wife Hits Husband on Motorcycle: Helmet Saves His Life Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 09:48:46 -0400 "speed bike"? What the heck is a speed bike? Perry >From: Mark Kitchell >To: DC Cycles >Subject: Wife Hits Husband on Motorcycle: Helmet Saves His Life >Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 05:45:06 -0700 (PDT) > >From the Edmonton Sun, May 18th/2004: > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Wife plows into hubby > >A motorcyclist sustained a fractured ankle last night >after his speed >bike was >hit from behind by a pickup truck driven by his wife, >police say. [snip] _________________________________________________________________ Stop worrying about overloading your inbox - get MSN Hotmail Extra Storage! http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 10:18:30 2004 From: Stephen Miller Subject: Re: Wife Hits Husband on Motorcycle: Helmet Saves His Life Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 10:18:47 -0400 To: DC Cycles 1/3 of a Speed Triple?? On May 21, 2004, at 9:48 AM, Perry Coleman wrote: > "speed bike"? What the heck is a speed bike? > > Perry > >> From: Mark Kitchell >> To: DC Cycles >> Subject: Wife Hits Husband on Motorcycle: Helmet Saves His Life >> Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 05:45:06 -0700 (PDT) >> >> From the Edmonton Sun, May 18th/2004: >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --------- >> Wife plows into hubby >> >> A motorcyclist sustained a fractured ankle last night >> after his speed >> bike was >> hit from behind by a pickup truck driven by his wife, >> police say. > [snip] > > _________________________________________________________________ > Stop worrying about overloading your inbox - get MSN Hotmail Extra > Storage! http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 10:21:04 2004 Subject: RE: Report the idiot cage driver Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 10:25:07 -0400 From: "Julian Halton" To: "Troutman" , This is far worse...it encourages informers, creates an atmosphere of suspicion and there is no recourse to such complaints. Sure he may have flipped you the bird but that could have been AFTER you drifted into his lane and almost knackered him. Too Stalinesque for my liking. -----Original Message----- From: Troutman [mailto:mike@XXXXXX] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 4:02 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Report the idiot cage driver Same as a red light camera violation - you are responsible for the vehicle registered in your name. At least it isn't a blind fine money maker like the red light and speed cameras. At 12:56 PM 5/20/2004, Steven Burrow wrote: >Real problem with this one. >Basically, there is no way to say who was driving at the time. Why >should a letter go into my file if someone else was at fault? ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org When weapons are blunted, and ardor dampened, strength exhausted, and resources depleted, the neighboring rulers will take advantage of these complications - Sun Tzu From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 10:22:28 2004 Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 10:21:36 -0400 To: dan , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Why gear? At 07:56 AM 5/21/04 -0400, dan wrote: >Mike continues to claim that he never sees Hardley riders wearing beanies, >yet everyone else has. I see them every weekend, can spot them at speed >too. I continue to claim it because it's true. I don't see them, despite riding with Harley riders frequently. Maybe I just ride with a better class of Harley rider than the ones in your area? As for the novelty helmets, those would be acceptable in states without helmet laws (like New Hampshire, where someone saw them for sale?), but I don't think they are legal substitutes for proper helmets in states that do have helmet laws. My understanding is that helmet laws require DOT-approved helmets, not just something covering your head, and not just something with a sticker saying "DOT" on it either. If there are crowds of Harley riders wearing non-DOT-approved helmets where you ride, and this is bothering you so much, maybe you should ask your local law enforcement people to enforce the laws? -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 10:22:30 2004 Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 10:22:36 -0400 To: Stephen Miller , DC Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Why gear? At 08:19 AM 5/21/04 -0400, Stephen Miller wrote: >Beemer, though. That'd be a sight, a reflective and waterproof armored >BMW-spec textile suit with sticker-covered beanie (THE BITCH FELL >OFF!!) to top it off. I liked "Which dwarf are you?" better... -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 10:23:30 2004 Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 10:23:25 -0400 To: Tom , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Why gear? At 08:28 AM 5/21/04 -0400, Tom wrote: >3 here, if only for the 3 page posts. If you are reading challenged, just hit delete. I won't mind a bit. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 10:28:55 2004 Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 10:28:02 -0400 From: Tom To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Why gear? Mike Bartman wrote: >At 08:28 AM 5/21/04 -0400, Tom wrote: > > > >>3 here, if only for the 3 page posts. >> >> >If you are reading challenged, just hit delete. I won't mind a bit. > > I do. Because 8 months ago it was evident you really have nothing to say. I feel for anyone who gets stuck speaking to you. Tom de > >-- Mike B. > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 10:31:48 2004 Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 10:30:56 -0400 From: Tom To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Why gear? Mike Bartman wrote: >At 07:56 AM 5/21/04 -0400, dan wrote: > > >I continue to claim it because it's true. I don't see them, despite riding >with Harley riders frequently. > > So Mike has been back to riding now for less than year, has less than 10k miles on his bike, AND most of all because he doesn't see it, it doesn't exist!?! Amazing. >-- Mike B. > > Tom de From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 10:32:12 2004 From: "John White" To: freecat@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Wife Hits Husband on Motorcycle: Helmet Saves His Life Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 10:32:04 -0400 Speed bike... I think the writer was thinking Return of the Jedi "Speeder". Yeah, that's it. >From: Stephen Miller >To: DC Cycles >Subject: Re: Wife Hits Husband on Motorcycle: Helmet Saves His Life >Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 10:18:47 -0400 > >1/3 of a Speed Triple?? > > >On May 21, 2004, at 9:48 AM, Perry Coleman wrote: > >>"speed bike"? What the heck is a speed bike? >> >>Perry >> >>>From: Mark Kitchell >>>To: DC Cycles >>>Subject: Wife Hits Husband on Motorcycle: Helmet Saves His Life >>>Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 05:45:06 -0700 (PDT) >>> >>>From the Edmonton Sun, May 18th/2004: >>> >>> >>>---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>--------- >>>Wife plows into hubby >>> >>>A motorcyclist sustained a fractured ankle last night >>>after his speed >>>bike was >>>hit from behind by a pickup truck driven by his wife, >>>police say. >>[snip] >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>Stop worrying about overloading your inbox - get MSN Hotmail Extra >>Storage! http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ >> > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 10:33:43 2004 Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 10:33:35 -0400 To: "DC Cycles" From: Troutman Subject: First cicada strike today - gear Hit the bugger going 20 or so. Took it in the shoulder. Barely felt it hit at that speed, but the cicada exploded across my jacket. I found his head on my collar. He spread out in a 9" mass of wings and goop. That is why I wear gear. The other day I passed a pot hole crew and a chunk of hot asphalt flew into my face shield. It left a scar where the near boiling oil met the plastics. Has I been wearing a 1/2 helmet, that would have been quite painful. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles. One who does not know the enemy but knows himself will sometimes win, sometimes lose. One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself will be in danger in every battle. - Sun Tzu From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 10:44:08 2004 Subject: RE: Report the idiot cage driver Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 10:43:55 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Julian Halton" , Conversely, the current paradigm that allows a cage driver to break any traffic law on the books with no repercussion, *unless* a LEO actually witnesses the law-breaking, is a fair system? How many times have we all wished to have the private cell number of the local constabulary to direct their attention to a flagrant scofflaw, someone endangering themselves and others with reckless driving behaviour, yet getting away scot-free because no officer was in sight? In some states, you can issue a citizen's citation to any driver, but you have to be positive of the driver's identity. Provide the police with a plate number, and they will send you a form to fill out, and then send the offender a nice ticket in the mail. Which ticket, unlike this watered-down version, actually results in fines and points against the driver's license. I think this sort of self-policing mechanism is a step in the right direction, and may help to alleviate flaws in the current system of traffic law enforcement, which is a purely arbitrary system designed to collect the maximum revenue with the minumum fuss for the LEO community. IM(ever so)HO, of course! Robert -----Original Message----- From: Julian Halton [mailto:julian@XXXXXX] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 10:25 AM To: Troutman; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Report the idiot cage driver This is far worse...it encourages informers, creates an atmosphere of suspicion and there is no recourse to such complaints. Sure he may have flipped you the bird but that could have been AFTER you drifted into his lane and almost knackered him. Too Stalinesque for my liking. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 10:57:29 2004 Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 10:49:33 -0400 To: "Verde, Robert" , "John White" , , From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: Wife Hits Husband on Motorcycle: Helmet Saves His Life At 09:14 AM 5/21/04 -0400, Verde, Robert wrote: >Hey, she is a motoryclist too, according to the story. So much for the theory that if you ride you are more aware of other riders, even when driving a cage... LOL She apparently wasn't even aware of the emergency vehicle...or maybe she just skipped the part in the driver's manual about slowing down and pulling to the side of the road when one passes? -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 10:58:35 2004 Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 10:54:47 -0400 To: "John White" , freecat@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Wife Hits Husband on Motorcycle: Helmet Saves His Life More likely thinking of those race machines some people like to ride on the public road ways. Non-moto people's attitude about sport bikes leaking out there? With some SUVs coming out a hybrids, the leftists will need a new scapegoat to all hate...could be sport bikes next? -- Mike B. At 10:32 AM 5/21/04 -0400, John White wrote: >Speed bike... I think the writer was thinking Return of the Jedi "Speeder". > Yeah, that's it. > > >>From: Stephen Miller >>To: DC Cycles >>Subject: Re: Wife Hits Husband on Motorcycle: Helmet Saves His Life >>Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 10:18:47 -0400 >> >>1/3 of a Speed Triple?? >> >> >>On May 21, 2004, at 9:48 AM, Perry Coleman wrote: >> >>>"speed bike"? What the heck is a speed bike? >>> >>>Perry >>> >>>>From: Mark Kitchell >>>>To: DC Cycles >>>>Subject: Wife Hits Husband on Motorcycle: Helmet Saves His Life >>>>Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 05:45:06 -0700 (PDT) >>>> >>>>From the Edmonton Sun, May 18th/2004: >>>> >>>> >>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>--------- >>>>Wife plows into hubby >>>> >>>>A motorcyclist sustained a fractured ankle last night >>>>after his speed >>>>bike was >>>>hit from behind by a pickup truck driven by his wife, >>>>police say. >>>[snip] >>> >>>_________________________________________________________________ >>>Stop worrying about overloading your inbox - get MSN Hotmail Extra >>>Storage! http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ >>> >> > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 10:59:26 2004 Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 10:59:20 -0400 To: Tom , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Why gear? At 10:30 AM 5/21/04 -0400, Tom wrote: >Mike Bartman wrote: >>At 07:56 AM 5/21/04 -0400, dan wrote: >>I continue to claim it because it's true. I don't see them, despite riding >>with Harley riders frequently. >> >So Mike has been back to riding now for less than year, has less than >10k miles on his bike, AND most of all because he doesn't see it, it >doesn't exist!?! > >Amazing. No, I'm no longer amazed at the lack of reading comprehension found on lists like this one. Where did I say it doesn't exist? Please provide quotes. What I said was that I haven't seen it. If you can't tell the difference between those two ideas, I'm really happy that you are filtering my posts. I just wish you'd ignore them when others quote them too. If you are only going to half-listen, perhaps you should fully butt out? -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 11:01:34 2004 Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 11:03:28 -0400 To: "Verde, Robert" , "Julian Halton" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: Report the idiot cage driver At 10:43 AM 5/21/04 -0400, Verde, Robert wrote: >How many times have we all wished to have the private cell number of the local constabulary to direct their attention to a flagrant scofflaw, someone endangering themselves and others with reckless driving behaviour, yet getting away scot-free because no officer was in sight? In Virginia, #77 on your cell phone, like the signs say. I used it last month to report a flaming car on the side of I-95 south of Springfield. Works like a champ. >I think this sort of self-policing mechanism is a step in the right direction, and may help to alleviate flaws in the current system of traffic law enforcement, which is a purely arbitrary system designed to collect the maximum revenue with the minumum fuss for the LEO community. IM(ever so)HO, of course! I think we should go to a Rodney King style system. Everyone mounts video cameras on their vehicles. When they see an infraction, they upload the video record to the police, who have now "seen the infraction", and can then issue a ticket. Only flagrant and frequent law breakers would have a problem with such a system, right? -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 11:03:47 2004 Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 11:03:31 -0400 To: "DC Cycles" From: Troutman Subject: RE: Report the idiot cage driver At 11:03 AM 5/21/2004, Mike Bartman wrote: >In Virginia, #77 on your cell phone, like the signs say. I used it last >month to report a flaming car on the side of I-95 south of Springfield. >Works like a champ. Not so well in a full face helmet. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles. One who does not know the enemy but knows himself will sometimes win, sometimes lose. One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself will be in danger in every battle. - Sun Tzu From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 11:05:01 2004 Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 11:04:59 -0400 To: "DC Cycles" From: Troutman Subject: Mini bikes causing Boston uproar http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2004/05/21/mini_motorbikes_make_many_roar/ Pocket bikes are cool. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles. One who does not know the enemy but knows himself will sometimes win, sometimes lose. One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself will be in danger in every battle. - Sun Tzu From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 11:06:09 2004 Subject: RE: Wife Hits Husband on Motorcycle: Helmet Saves His Life Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 11:05:59 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: Also points out the dangerous complacency that can occur when a rider thinks a cage driver will behave in a certain way. Always drive like everyone on the road is a homicidal maniac out to kill you, even when it's your significant other in the car is question. Hmmm... Wonder if there had been any domestic friction immediately prior to the trip in question? Could have been just a momentary lapse in attention, of course. (Exactly whose attention lapse is open to debate...) Not too long ago in Oregon, a teenage driver bent down to retrieve some dropped cassette tapes, and ran car over a family of four riding bicycles on the side of the road. All cyclists died at the scene. -----Original Message----- From: Mike Bartman [mailto:omni@XXXXXX] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 10:50 AM To: Verde, Robert; John White; markkitchell@XXXXXX; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Wife Hits Husband on Motorcycle: Helmet Saves His Life She apparently wasn't even aware of the emergency vehicle...or maybe she just skipped the part in the driver's manual about slowing down and pulling to the side of the road when one passes? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 11:14:58 2004 From: "Perry Coleman" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Why gear? Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 11:02:50 -0400 I have to admit that I haven't been so close to putting someone on ignore since "Squeakers"... _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee)B® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 11:17:08 2004 Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 11:19:02 -0400 To: Troutman , "DC Cycles" From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: Report the idiot cage driver At 11:03 AM 5/21/04 -0400, Troutman wrote: >At 11:03 AM 5/21/2004, Mike Bartman wrote: >>In Virginia, #77 on your cell phone, like the signs say. I used it last >>month to report a flaming car on the side of I-95 south of Springfield. >>Works like a champ. > >Not so well in a full face helmet. Well, there ya go! A reason not to wear them! ;-) Actually, there are some intercom systems that will interface with a cell phone...I think Evil Overlord Carl has one and has used it while riding up to New York, according to his posted story about the trip. Carl? -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 11:19:14 2004 Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 11:19:12 -0400 To: "DC Cycles" From: Troutman Subject: RE: Report the idiot cage driver At 11:19 AM 5/21/2004, Mike Bartman wrote: > >Not so well in a full face helmet. > >Well, there ya go! A reason not to wear them! ;-) > >Actually, there are some intercom systems that will interface with a cell >phone...I think Evil Overlord Carl has one and has used it while riding up >to New York, according to his posted story about the trip. Carl? I have no interest whatsoever in talking on my cell phone while I ride. The closest I get to distraction besides looking at women walking by is using headphones on long rides. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles. One who does not know the enemy but knows himself will sometimes win, sometimes lose. One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself will be in danger in every battle. - Sun Tzu From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 11:28:29 2004 Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 11:24:40 -0400 From: Skip To: skip@XXXXXX Subject: new rider embarassing moment I noticed a new bike in the parking lot next to mine. a piss yellow brand-y new Suzuki gsxr 600. it's a sporty looking machine -- all low and sleek and slightly angular... very sexy in that "race bike" way. I've been keeping my eye on it, hoping to meet the owner, maybe go for a ride with him, show him some of my favorite local roads. I heard it warming up as I was getting ready to go to work, so I grab my helmet and jacket and head out the door. He's sitting on it, helmet on but no other gear. he eases the clutch out and it stalls. starts it back up, idles for a moment, eases the clutch out, bluh-bluh, it stalls again. I decide that this is a good opportunity to go meet him, so I head over. I say hi, and compliment his bike. He seems flustered ... that slightly overwhelmed, slightly nervous look that I know I had on my first bike.... that, "I know what I'm supposed to do, but this is doing it on a much bigger scale". so I ask him if this is his first bike. there's a pause, and he says, "First time for this kind of bike", which I take to mean that he's ridden a dirt bike a few dozen times, and has decided to step up. He's making a big first step with his bike choice. the salesman definately saw him comin'. side note... I know that the sales guy is just trying to feed his family, and that he has no legal duty to sell this guy a --reasonable-- first bike. but I look at riders as sort of family -- I'd go out at two in the morning in the pouring rain to help a fellow biker, and this saleman has done this guy a disservice... one that I hope this brand new rider lives through. Since this guy is a virgin, I decide to start with my standard "gear suggestion". I ask about his jacket, gloves, and pants, and he says that he has a jacket. I do my "graphic demonstration" and say, you really ought to wear it --every-- time you ride because at 50 mph (drag hand across ground) that **hurts**. there's a pause, and he says, "yeah, you know, you're right" and goes and gets his jacket. I say that we ought to go ride sometime and he says that he's got to do some more practicing for his license test next week. I mention the MSF and he says that it's booked through the end of this year. Typical. Side note, there is --almost-- enough demand for the MSF BRC that it could be run as a full time school. I tell him to stick to the parking lot, first gear, and tight turns. work on smooth. he nods, I say good bye and walk off. he starts it up again, and stalls it again. The Sabre fires up instantly (thanks Jack!) , and I'm kind of watching him as I put on my helmet and gloves. he stalls it again, turns the key off, puts the side stand down, and gets off. he goes around to the other side, glances both directions, I pretend I'm not looking. He kneels down and takes off the lock and chain and sets them off to the side. :~) --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 11:28:56 2004 Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 11:26:35 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: Mike Bartman , "Verde,Robert" , Julian Halton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: State Police star/pound codes, was RE: Report the idiot cage driver -----Original Message----- From: Mike Bartman In Virginia, #77 on your cell phone, like the signs say. I used it last month to report a flaming car on the side of I-95 south of Springfield. Works like a champ. --------------------- Somewhat comprehensive of state police calling codes here. http://www.nextel.com/services/digitalcellular/star_pound_dialing.shtml In Murlan it's #77 too. Or #SP (state police) if you prefer. (Note to Nextel employee DC-Cyclers. This list is four years old) Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 11:35:04 2004 Reply-To: "Patrick Carter" From: "Patrick Carter" To: "DC Cycles" , "Troutman" Subject: Re: Mini bikes causing Boston uproar Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 11:34:57 -0400 I have those exact mini bikes for sale if anyone wants them. I have them in Red, Blue, Black, Silver, and Yellow. Let me know if your interested. $850 brand new. Thanks Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Troutman" To: "DC Cycles" Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 11:04 AM Subject: Mini bikes causing Boston uproar > http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2004/05/21/mini_motorbikes_make_many_roar/ > > Pocket bikes are cool. > > > ___________________________________________ > Mike Troutman > http://www.troutman.org/vfr > 1997 Honda VFR 750 > AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ > NMA http://www.motorists.org > > One who knows the enemy and knows himself > will not be in danger in a hundred battles. > One who does not know the enemy but knows himself > will sometimes win, sometimes lose. > One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself > will be in danger in every battle. > - Sun Tzu > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 11:35:33 2004 Subject: RE: Mini bikes causing Boston uproar Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 11:35:24 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Troutman" , "DC Cycles" Very! Of course, the loon that was riding his new pocket bike around my parking lot at 2AM last weekend, complete with aftermarket (loud) muffler, is on my short list... ;-) I wasn't impressed with the article's spin, though. Driver almost hits a kid on one of these, and his response is to try to restrict them? How about legislation that makes it a crime to fail to yeild to one, giving pocket bikes the protection afforded to bicyclists? Another loser in the conflict with the dominant US car culture, which only kills 800 people a day. New York City, a city that should be in favor of efforts to reduce the number of cars on the street, has banned them. Prices have sure dropped since I last looked at these, and the performance is quite a bit higher than I expected! 52-64 MPH? On something you can pick up and carry under your arm? Expect to see them featured in new Hollywood epics targeted at the elusive teen/young adult market. http://www.speed-sports.com/Pocket_Bikes/ Robert -----Original Message----- From: Troutman [mailto:mike@XXXXXX] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 11:05 AM To: DC Cycles Subject: Mini bikes causing Boston uproar http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2004/05/21/mini_motorbikes_make_many_roar/ Pocket bikes are cool. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 11:41:29 2004 Subject: RE: State Police star/pound codes, was RE: Report the idiot cage driver Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 11:41:20 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Paul Wilson" , I'll look into it, Paul. ;-) Robert -----Original Message----- From: Paul Wilson [mailto:viffermaniac@XXXXXX] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 11:27 AM To: Mike Bartman; Verde, Robert; Julian Halton; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: State Police star/pound codes, was RE: Report the idiot cage driver Somewhat comprehensive of state police calling codes here. http://www.nextel.com/services/digitalcellular/star_pound_dialing.shtml In Murlan it's #77 too. Or #SP (state police) if you prefer. (Note to Nextel employee DC-Cyclers. This list is four years old) Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 11:46:18 2004 Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 11:45:49 -0400 To: Troutman , "DC Cycles" From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: Report the idiot cage driver At 11:19 AM 5/21/04 -0400, Troutman wrote: >I have no interest whatsoever in talking on my cell phone while I >ride. The closest I get to distraction besides looking at women walking by >is using headphones on long rides. You could pull off to call. That would also let the "problem" driver get farther away from you too. I agree about the distraction thing. I'm not using headphones at all yet, even (especially?) on highway rides. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 11:46:43 2004 From: "Shigeru Honda" To: "dc-cycles" Subject: Re: new rider embarassing moment Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 11:43:52 -0400 LoL, at least he didn't drop his brand new bike. --------------------- Shigeru Honda 98 SuperHawk (Street) 99 750 SS (Track #881) 02 MZ Skorpion Tour (Commuter) 91 CR80 (new toy) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Skip" To: Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 11:24 AM Subject: new rider embarassing moment > I noticed a new bike in the parking lot next to mine. a piss yellow brand-y new > Suzuki gsxr 600. it's a sporty looking machine -- all low and sleek and > slightly angular... very sexy in that "race bike" way. I've been keeping my > eye on it, hoping to meet the owner, maybe go for a ride with him, show him some > of my favorite local roads. > I heard it warming up as I was getting ready to go to work, so I grab my helmet > and jacket and head out the door. He's sitting on it, helmet on but no other > gear. he eases the clutch out and it stalls. starts it back up, idles for a > moment, eases the clutch out, bluh-bluh, it stalls again. I decide that this is > a good opportunity to go meet him, so I head over. I say hi, and compliment his > bike. He seems flustered ... that slightly overwhelmed, slightly nervous look > that I know I had on my first bike.... that, "I know what I'm supposed to do, > but this is doing it on a much bigger scale". so I ask him if this is his first > bike. there's a pause, and he says, "First time for this kind of bike", which I > take to mean that he's ridden a dirt bike a few dozen times, and has decided to > step up. He's making a big first step with his bike choice. the salesman > definately saw him comin'. > > side note... I know that the sales guy is just trying to feed his family, and > that he has no legal duty to sell this guy a --reasonable-- first bike. but I > look at riders as sort of family -- I'd go out at two in the morning in the > pouring rain to help a fellow biker, and this saleman has done this guy a > disservice... one that I hope this brand new rider lives through. > > Since this guy is a virgin, I decide to start with my standard "gear > suggestion". I ask about his jacket, gloves, and pants, and he says that he has > a jacket. I do my "graphic demonstration" and say, you really ought to wear it > --every-- time you ride because at 50 mph (drag hand across ground) that > **hurts**. there's a pause, and he says, "yeah, you know, you're right" and > goes and gets his jacket. I say that we ought to go ride sometime and he says > that he's got to do some more practicing for his license test next week. I > mention the MSF and he says that it's booked through the end of this year. > Typical. > > Side note, there is --almost-- enough demand for the MSF BRC that it could be > run as a full time school. I tell him to stick to the parking lot, first gear, > and tight turns. work on smooth. he nods, I say good bye and walk off. he > starts it up again, and stalls it again. > > The Sabre fires up instantly (thanks Jack!) , and I'm kind of watching him as I > put on my helmet and gloves. he stalls it again, turns the key off, puts the > side stand down, and gets off. he goes around to the other side, glances both > directions, I pretend I'm not looking. He kneels down and takes off the lock > and chain and sets them off to the side. :~) > > --skip > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 11:57:56 2004 Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 11:59:49 -0400 To: "DC Cycles" From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: Mini bikes causing Boston uproar At 11:35 AM 5/21/04 -0400, Verde, Robert wrote: >Prices have sure dropped since I last looked at these, and the performance is quite a bit higher than I expected! 52-64 MPH? On something you can pick up and carry under your arm? There was a short discussion of these at Battley's yesterday morning. I suggested that they might make good bike "tenders". When you have to take your bike in for service, you just strap one to the luggage rack, and head for the shop. Drop off the bike, and ride the "tender" home or to work. No need to arrange a ride, take a cab or whatever! -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 13:22:49 2004 Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 13:19:16 -0400 From: Skip CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Why gear? PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > > In a message dated 5/20/2004 8:08:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > freecat@XXXXXX writes: > > > As for airbags, it's well known that they're mixed bags, > > No one is ever going to convince me that having an explosive device (and it > is literally a bomb) pointed at your chest is a good idea. I was turning wrenches at a dealership and we had an airbag that had to be sent back, so we had to discharge it. Of course we did exactly the opposite of the directions and laid it face down on the ground. they weigh 5-10 pounds, and it blew the thing at least 50-60 feet in the air. it was cool as hell. that said, they are effective safety devices that work very well if you're in the range of sizes that they are designed for. If you're not, they are a hazard. --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 15:47:49 2004 From: To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: new rider embarassing moment Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 15:47:40 -0400 > > From: Skip > Date: 2004/05/21 Fri AM 11:24:40 EDT > To: skip@XXXXXX > Subject: new rider embarassing moment > >I say that we ought to go ride sometime and he says > that he's got to do some more practicing for his license test next week. ...wait a minute...he's riding WITHOUT A FUCKING LICENSE???? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 16:01:49 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 16:01:39 EDT Subject: Re: (Why gear?) Air bags To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 5/21/2004 1:23:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, skip@XXXXXX writes: > that said, they are effective safety devices that work very well if you're in > the range of sizes that they are designed for. If you're not, they are a > hazard. And they are as useless as tits on a chicken if you are already wearing a seat belt. The damn things started killing people and instead of admitting they were a bad idea from the word go "they" just "fixed" them. The damn things are dangerous and should _never_ have been put into cars, everyone who is killed by them has been murdered by the un-elected beurocrocy that mandated them. But I am not bitter........... John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 16:04:44 2004 Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 16:04:33 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Why gear? On Fri, 21 May 2004, Tom Gimer wrote: > ah, how special. > > here's an idea, windbag: let's poll the list and see if > anyone is tired of (i) your holier than thou attitude, (ii) > your > 300-mile-slab-to-delaware-makes-me-an-experienced-rider > stories, or (iii) your sidestep anyone who actually calls > my bullshit tactics. Personally, I'm tired of you counting in lowercase roman numerals. -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 16:07:16 2004 From: bernescut@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Why gear? Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 16:06:45 -0400 Me II Cedric Bernescut 2000 CBR600F4 Annandale, VA - Personally, I'm tired of you counting in lowercase roman numerals. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 16:35:54 2004 Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 16:32:13 -0400 From: Skip To: bernescut@XXXXXX CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Why gear? I hVIII it II. --skip, mcmlxix bernescut@XXXXXX wrote: > > Me II > Cedric Bernescut > 2000 CBR600F4 > Annandale, VA > > - > > Personally, I'm tired of you counting in lowercase roman numerals. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 16:41:08 2004 Subject: RE: Why gear? Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 16:40:57 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Skip" , Cc: Only posers use upper-case... =8-> -----Original Message----- From: Skip [mailto:skip@XXXXXX] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 4:32 PM To: bernescut@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Why gear? I hVIII it II. --skip, mcmlxix bernescut@XXXXXX wrote: > > Me II > Cedric Bernescut > 2000 CBR600F4 > Annandale, VA > > - > > Personally, I'm tired of you counting in lowercase roman numerals. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 16:43:57 2004 Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 16:34:06 -0400 From: Skip To: adamme1@XXXXXX CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: new rider embarassing moment in the parking lot... hopefully not out on the open road... though I rode like that for more than a year... --skip adamme1@XXXXXX wrote: > > > > > From: Skip > > Date: 2004/05/21 Fri AM 11:24:40 EDT > > To: skip@XXXXXX > > Subject: new rider embarassing moment > > > > > > >I say that we ought to go ride sometime and he says > > that he's got to do some more practicing for his license test next week. > > ...wait a minute...he's riding WITHOUT A FUCKING LICENSE???? > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 17:13:55 2004 Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 14:13:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: RE: Report the idiot cage driver To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 11:03 AM 5/21/04 -0400, Troutman wrote: > >At 11:03 AM 5/21/2004, Mike Bartman wrote: > >>In Virginia, #77 on your cell phone, like the signs say. I used it > last > >>month to report a flaming car on the side of I-95 south of > Springfield. > >>Works like a champ. > > > >Not so well in a full face helmet. > > Well, there ya go! A reason not to wear them! ;-) > > Actually, there are some intercom systems that will interface with a > cell > phone...I think Evil Overlord Carl has one and has used it while riding > up > to New York, according to his posted story about the trip. Carl? Sort of. It wasn't the trip to NY but the classes in Reston. I used the phone to chat with Rita, she'd call me. It worked pretty well but I couldn't dial out and the voice dial didn't work. I had the phone on auto-answer. I suspect, but never tried, if I had created a new entry and spoken Rita's name through the intercom, it might have worked. You could do the same thing with the cops number if it works. I'll have to try it. It's supposed to work with the two way systems. We have them but I haven't tried them on the bikes. They work great on the move out here though. Once Rita got out of range, she'd know she had to slow back down. > > -- Mike B. Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 18:00:10 2004 From: Lister Lynch To: "'Skip '" , "'adamme1@XXXXXX '" Cc: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX '" Subject: RE: new rider embarassing moment Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 18:00:22 -0400 When you grow up in the sticks, you know more people who learned to ride without a license than not. We all did get licenses eventually though. City folk are usually more learned however... Mike toys, lots of toys -----Original Message----- From: Skip To: adamme1@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Sent: 5/21/2004 4:34 PM Subject: Re: new rider embarassing moment in the parking lot... hopefully not out on the open road... though I rode like that for more than a year... --skip adamme1@XXXXXX wrote: > > > > > From: Skip > > Date: 2004/05/21 Fri AM 11:24:40 EDT > > To: skip@XXXXXX > > Subject: new rider embarassing moment > > > > > > >I say that we ought to go ride sometime and he says > > that he's got to do some more practicing for his license test next week. > > ...wait a minute...he's riding WITHOUT A FUCKING LICENSE???? > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri May 21 18:52:09 2004 Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 15:52:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Why gear? To: "Daniel H. Brown" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- "Daniel H. Brown" wrote: > On Fri, 21 May 2004, Tom Gimer wrote: > > ah, how special. > > > > here's an idea, windbag: let's poll the list and see if > > anyone is tired of (i) your holier than thou attitude, > (ii) > > your > > 300-mile-slab-to-delaware-makes-me-an-experienced-rider > > stories, or (iii) your sidestep anyone who actually > calls > > my bullshit tactics. > > Personally, I'm tired of you counting in lowercase roman > numerals. my apologies. -- tg __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat May 22 13:53:47 2004 From: "Rob Sharp" To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: (Why gear?) Air bags Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 01:18:06 -0400 Sell it on Ebay :) Just pretend you stole it out of someone elses car. Rob On Fri, 21 May 2004 16:01:39 EDT, PenguinBiker wrote > In a message dated 5/21/2004 1:23:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > skip@XXXXXX writes: > > > that said, they are effective safety devices that work very well if you're > in > > the range of sizes that they are designed for. If you're not, they are a > > hazard. > > And they are as useless as tits on a chicken if you are already > wearing a seat belt. The damn things started killing people and > instead of admitting they were a bad idea from the word go "they" > just "fixed" them. The damn things are dangerous and should _never_ > have been put into cars, everyone who is killed by them has been > murdered by the un-elected beurocrocy that mandated them. > > But I am not bitter........... > > John. > PenguinBiker@XXXXXX -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat May 22 13:53:47 2004 From: "Rob Sharp" To: , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: new rider embarassing moment Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 00:56:33 -0400 On Fri, 21 May 2004 15:47:40 -0400, adamme1 wrote > > > > From: Skip > > Date: 2004/05/21 Fri AM 11:24:40 EDT > > To: skip@XXXXXX > > Subject: new rider embarassing moment > > > > > > >I say that we ought to go ride sometime and he says > > that he's got to do some more practicing for his license test next week. > > ...wait a minute...he's riding WITHOUT A FUCKING LICENSE???? Yeah once you have that magical document you know how to ride/drive right :) For the most part when I started and had a permit I rode with groups. I eventually got pulled over when I was one my way to the meeting spot at a traffic stop (registrations ect). Cops issued me a ticket and made me call my friends to come pick me up.... Got out of the ticket, guy I rode with was the ADA :-D Rob -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat May 22 19:44:41 2004 Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 16:44:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Weather Forecast for tomorrow: NO RAIN so come to Bike Night! To: DC Cycles http://www.geocities.com/bikenight/ See you there! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat May 22 21:25:39 2004 Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 18:25:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: E-Bay Scams To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Yea yea, I know. I was poking around on e-bay looking at the GSXR 1000/1300's and found several entries that seemed too good to be true. All from accounts that were activated today, all from Canada and all with "Buy it now's" running a couple thousand less than what I've been seeing in the paper and at the dealers. Some said they needed the money for various things and had to sell at a sacrifice. Funny thing is, they had 5 or 6 bikes/4x4's for sale. Anyway, one guy had one. 2002 Hayabusa for a BIN of 4500. He had a high positive response code (over 700). I sent him an e-mail asking where he was located. If he was localish or local to people I know, I could check it out for myself or have someone check it for me. I got a reply. The bike's in LA, a couple of day ride from here. However I checked the headers from his e-mail and found his IP address was 82.79.16.132 which, according to ripe.net is based in Romania. *sniff* *sniff*, smells like dog shit. I said that it was too far away and thanks all the same. I submitted the e-mail to e-bay for investigation. Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat May 22 21:42:22 2004 Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 18:42:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: E-mail sent to e-bay To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Here's the body of the "complaint"? I sent to e-bay: Message: Auction: 2479758672 I used the button to send the seller a question regarding the location of the motorcycle. The e-mail I received indicated he was in LA, however the IP address noted in the Received line shows Kirt logged in from a Romania assigned IP address. Since there have been several suspicious auctions in the Suzuki GSX-R and Suzuki Hayabusa sections, I notified the user that I declined making a bid. This may be a legitimate auction but there are enough factors that point to a possible hi-jacked account. Carl Schelin ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat May 22 21:44:28 2004 Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 21:44:20 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: 2002 F4i Silver/Black $6500 OBO Brother in law is making last ditch effort at selling his F4. 1400 miles, perfect condition, totally stock. I have it this week and will be commuting on it Manassas to Reston if anyone is interested. Email off list of course. Very different bike from the VFR obviously. Tons of brakes, quick turning, weighs nothing and is fun to ride. We'll see how it commutes. _____________________________________ Mike Troutman mike@XXXXXX http://www.troutman.org/vfr '97 Honda VFR 750 AMA - http://www.amadirectlink.com/ NMA - http://www.motorists.org "I'd rather die while I'm living, then live while I'm dead." - Jimmy Buffett From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat May 22 22:19:02 2004 Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 21:01:00 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: 2002 F4i Silver/Black $6500 OBO Brother in law is making last ditch effort at selling his F4. 1400 miles, perfect condition, totally stock. I have it this week and will be commuting on it Manassas to Reston if anyone is interested. Email off list of course. Very different bike from the VFR obviously. Tons of brakes, quick turning, weighs nothing and is fun to ride. We'll see how it commutes. _____________________________________ Mike Troutman mike@XXXXXX http://www.troutman.org/vfr '97 Honda VFR 750 AMA - http://www.amadirectlink.com/ NMA - http://www.motorists.org "I'd rather die while I'm living, then live while I'm dead." - Jimmy Buffett From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat May 22 22:53:29 2004 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: E-Bay Scams Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 22:55:16 -0400 People get their ebay and paypal accounts hacked. Then the hackers use it to rip people off. Ever see those emails from paypal asking you to go to their site and confirm your info. Usually they are fake sites and they use the account info they trick out of you and good feedback to rip people off. Sucks huh Rob On Sat, 22 May 2004 18:25:16 -0700 (PDT), Carl Schelin wrote > Yea yea, I know. > > I was poking around on e-bay looking at the GSXR 1000/1300's and > found several entries that seemed too good to be true. All from > accounts that were activated today, all from Canada and all with > "Buy it now's" running a couple thousand less than what I've been > seeing in the paper and at the dealers. Some said they needed the > money for various things and had to sell at a sacrifice. Funny thing > is, they had 5 or 6 bikes/4x4's for sale. > > Anyway, one guy had one. 2002 Hayabusa for a BIN of 4500. He had a high > positive response code (over 700). I sent him an e-mail asking where > he was located. If he was localish or local to people I know, I > could check it out for myself or have someone check it for me. I got > a reply. The bike's in LA, a couple of day ride from here. > > However I checked the headers from his e-mail and found his IP > address was > 82.79.16.132 which, according to ripe.net is based in Romania. > *sniff* *sniff*, smells like dog shit. > > I said that it was too far away and thanks all the same. I submitted > the e-mail to e-bay for investigation. > > Carl > > ===== > 02 Harley FXSTI > 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W > 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year > http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat May 22 23:25:57 2004 Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 20:25:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: E-Bay Scams To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Yea, that was what I was figuring. I don't click on any URL's in an unsolicited e-mail and if I get one that seem legit, I'll go directly to the site and navigate that way. The last e-mail I sent, I requested an address but I notice that the sale is down (error in listing) and he's not responding any more :-) Carl --- Rob Sharp wrote: > People get their ebay and paypal accounts hacked. Then the hackers use > it to > rip people off. Ever see those emails from paypal asking you to go to > their > site and confirm your info. Usually they are fake sites and they use > the > account info they trick out of you and good feedback to rip people off. > > Sucks huh > > Rob > > On Sat, 22 May 2004 18:25:16 -0700 (PDT), Carl Schelin wrote > > Yea yea, I know. > > > > I was poking around on e-bay looking at the GSXR 1000/1300's and > > found several entries that seemed too good to be true. All from > > accounts that were activated today, all from Canada and all with > > "Buy it now's" running a couple thousand less than what I've been > > seeing in the paper and at the dealers. Some said they needed the > > money for various things and had to sell at a sacrifice. Funny thing > > is, they had 5 or 6 bikes/4x4's for sale. > > > > Anyway, one guy had one. 2002 Hayabusa for a BIN of 4500. He had a > high > > positive response code (over 700). I sent him an e-mail asking where > > he was located. If he was localish or local to people I know, I > > could check it out for myself or have someone check it for me. I got > > a reply. The bike's in LA, a couple of day ride from here. > > > > However I checked the headers from his e-mail and found his IP > > address was > > 82.79.16.132 which, according to ripe.net is based in Romania. > > *sniff* *sniff*, smells like dog shit. > > > > I said that it was too far away and thanks all the same. I submitted > > the e-mail to e-bay for investigation. > > > > Carl > > > > ===== > > 02 Harley FXSTI > > 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W > > 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year > > http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer > > > -- > Rob Sharp > 1996 Honda VFR 750 > 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme > SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA > Network Security Engineer > ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat May 22 23:50:50 2004 Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 20:50:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Adam Reinhardt Subject: Starting problem - CBR To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I recently took my 1989 CBR out of storage, put gas in it, and it fired up and ran for about 15 secs before it died. It would not start again. About 1hr later I tried again and bike started up again, revved fine, but again the motor quickly died and would not start again. The third time, after a couple more hours, the bike started immediately and settled into a normal idle. When I went to put on my helmet in order to ride around the block, the idle dropped and the motor died again. I'm thinking that this is a fuel delivery problem, since there is obviously spark enough for the bike to start and rev freely. Since the bike revs freely, I'm thinking its not air starvation (it has a Uni filter that I recently cleaned) It's not the fuel filter, because I just replaced it and gas comes through it fine. Could it be the fuel pump? Out of synch carbs?Any other thoughts? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Adam __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat May 22 23:59:47 2004 Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 23:57:55 -0400 Subject: Pocket bikes From: Bob McKeithen To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I saw one cruising down Constitution Ave last week. In that venue I think I would be a bit concerned about visibility. Bob From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun May 23 00:34:55 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 00:34:42 EDT Subject: Smoke To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From another list I am on. I have read it before but it is good and I expect not everyone on this list has seen it. John. Very moto related, this is!!! This is making the rounds so I thought I'd share it with those who might remember the Prince of Darkness. "A Treatise on the Importance of Smoke" by Joseph Lucas All electrical components and wiring harnesses depend on proper circuit functioning, which is the transmission of charged ions by retention of the visible spectral manifestation known as "smoke". Smoke is the thing that makes electrical circuits work. Don't be fooled by scientists and engineers talking about excited electrons and the like. Smoke is the key to all things electrical. We know this to be true because every time one lets the smoke out of an electrical circuit, it stops working. This can be verified repeatedly through empirical testing. For example, if one places a large copper bar across the terminals of a battery, prodigious quantities of smoke are liberated and the battery shortly ceases to function. In addition, if one observes smoke escaping from an electrical component such as a Lucas voltage regulator, it will also be observed that the component no longer functions. The logic is elementary and inescapable! The function of the wiring harness is to conduct the smoke from one device to another. When the wiring harness springs a leak and lets all the smoke out of the system, nothing works right afterward. Starter motors were considered unsuitable for British motorcycles for some time largely because they regularly released large quantities of smoke from the electrical system. It has been reported that Lucas electrical components are possibly more prone to electrical leakage than their Bosch, Japanese or American counterparts. Experts point out that this is because Lucas is British, and all things British leak. British engines leak oil, British shock absorbers, hydraulic forks, and disk brake systems leak fluid, British tires leak air and British Intelligence leaks national defense secrets. Therefore, it follows that British electrical systems must leak smoke. Once again, the logic is clear and inescapable. Sometimes you may miss the component releasing the smoke that makes your electrical system function correctly, but if you sniff around you can often find the faulty component by the undeniable and telltale smoke smell. Sometimes this is a better indicator than standard electrical tests performed with a volt-ohm meter. In conclusion, the basic concept of transmission of electrical energy in the form of smoke provides a clear and logical explanation of the mysteries of electrical components and why they fail. "A gentleman does not motor about after dark." - Joeseph Lucas, 1842 - 1903 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun May 23 00:45:34 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 00:45:12 EDT Subject: Re: Starting problem - CBR To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 5/22/2004 11:50:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ajreinhardt@XXXXXX writes: > Could it be the fuel pump? No. Not at all likely, even if you had a fuel pump. And if I remember correctly you do not have one. > Out of synch carbs? No. No way in hell. > Any other thoughts? FIRST! Did you drain the carburetors? That is the first thing you should do after a bike has been standing. If you have, or the problem does not go away after you do drain them then most likely the idle jets are plugged. It may be starting because you are getting fuel into the system from what the accelerator pump squirts in while you are trying to start the bike. Or not. Try draining the carburetors to see if that helps. And keep the list posted, someone will get you going... John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC 1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European 1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles 1976, Honda CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun May 23 01:03:20 2004 Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 01:04:59 -0400 To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Smoke At 12:34 AM 5/23/04 EDT, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: >>From another list I am on. I have read it before but it is good and I expect >not everyone on this list has seen it. >John. > >Very moto related, this is!!! This is making the rounds so I thought I'd >share it with those who might remember the Prince of Darkness. > >"A Treatise on the Importance of Smoke" by Joseph Lucas Are you going to follow up with the one about dark-emiting diodes and their use in emergency lighting? Or maybe sound-emiting diodes (run a large enough current through almost any diode and it will emit sound. Usually only once though...) The ERC course was fun. Challenging, but fun. 10 riders in the class. 8 passed (I was one of them). 1 got a perfect score on the final test (it wasn't me). The figure 8 in a box was probably the hardest exercise. Eventually got it perfected in practice, but on the final I blew it a little (ran out of the box by a foot on the second turn). The swerve was the easiest...aced that one on the final too. The "peanut" was tough, but luckily wasn't on the final test. Need more parking lot practice... -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun May 23 06:52:12 2004 From: Stephen Miller Subject: Re: E-Bay Scams Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 06:52:33 -0400 To: DC Cycles When I see a bike like that at a price like that I assume it is either wrecked, stolen, or a scam. On May 22, 2004, at 9:25 PM, Carl Schelin wrote: > Yea yea, I know. > > I was poking around on e-bay looking at the GSXR 1000/1300's and found > several entries that seemed too good to be true. All from accounts that > were activated today, all from Canada and all with "Buy it now's" > running > a couple thousand less than what I've been seeing in the paper and at > the > dealers. Some said they needed the money for various things and had to > sell at a sacrifice. Funny thing is, they had 5 or 6 bikes/4x4's for > sale. > > Anyway, one guy had one. 2002 Hayabusa for a BIN of 4500. He had a high > positive response code (over 700). I sent him an e-mail asking where he > was located. If he was localish or local to people I know, I could > check > it out for myself or have someone check it for me. I got a reply. The > bike's in LA, a couple of day ride from here. > > However I checked the headers from his e-mail and found his IP address > was > 82.79.16.132 which, according to ripe.net is based in Romania. *sniff* > *sniff*, smells like dog shit. > > I said that it was too far away and thanks all the same. I submitted > the > e-mail to e-bay for investigation. > > Carl > > ===== > 02 Harley FXSTI > 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W > 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year > http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun May 23 06:56:44 2004 From: Stephen Miller Subject: Re: Starting problem - CBR Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 06:57:09 -0400 To: DC Cycles Depending on how long it's been sitting I'd pull the carbs off and clean out the jets, adjust the floats, etc. On May 23, 2004, at 12:45 AM, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > In a message dated 5/22/2004 11:50:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > ajreinhardt@XXXXXX writes: > >> Could it be the fuel pump? > > No. Not at all likely, even if you had a fuel pump. And if I remember > correctly you do not have one. > >> Out of synch carbs? > > No. No way in hell. > >> Any other thoughts? > > FIRST! Did you drain the carburetors? That is the first thing you > should do > after a bike has been standing. If you have, or the problem does not > go away > after you do drain them then most likely the idle jets are plugged. It > may be > starting because you are getting fuel into the system from what the > accelerator > pump squirts in while you are trying to start the bike. > > Or not. Try draining the carburetors to see if that helps. And keep > the list > posted, someone will get you going... > > > > > John Walters (Long John) > PenguinBiker@XXXXXX > Up near DC > > 1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European > 1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles > 1976, Honda CR250M Motowhat racer > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun May 23 08:06:22 2004 From: "Michael Jordan" To: Subject: RE: Pocket bikes Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 08:06:10 -0400 > I saw one cruising down Constitution Ave last week. In that > venue I think I would be a bit concerned about visibility. No need to be concerned, Bob, they're almost invisible. Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun May 23 08:55:01 2004 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "DC Cycles" Subject: Thornton Gap = 45 mph limit Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 08:55:11 -0400 I came 211 yesterday after doing some backwood exploration. Brand spanking 45 mph speed limit signs, from the base of the grade at the Park HQ, all the way to Sperryville. Looks like the crashes and fatalities have finally made their mark on the authorities. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun May 23 09:45:19 2004 Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 06:44:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Steven Burrow Subject: Re: Smoke To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX British refrigerators use Lucas parts and that is why they like warm beer. Steve '01 YZF __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun May 23 11:23:11 2004 Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 10:23:11 -0500 To: Michael Jordan , thomas Jordan , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Sean Jordan Subject: Ducati Desmosedici Streetbike?!?! Only $50,000 Euros. http://venus.13x.com/roadracingworld/scripts/NewsInsert.asp?insert=9349 - Sean Jordan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun May 23 12:38:52 2004 From: "Michael Jordan" To: "'DC Cycles'" Subject: RE: Thornton Gap = 45 mph limit Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 12:38:39 -0400 > Brand spanking 45 mph speed limit signs, from the base of the > grade at the Park HQ, all the way to Sperryville. The practical result is that when someone wipes out at =>65, they will be able to hit 'em with a Reckless instead of a simple Speeding, =>10 over. Then again, simple minds tend to seek simple remedies to complex problems. And then wonder why it didn't work. Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun May 23 12:41:07 2004 From: "Michael Jordan" To: "'DC Cycles'" Subject: RE: Weather Forecast for tomorrow: NO RAIN so come to Bike Night! Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 12:40:55 -0400 > http://www.geocities.com/bikenight/ I'll take rain over cicadas any day :-P Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun May 23 14:27:07 2004 Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 11:26:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Adam Reinhardt Subject: Re: Starting problem - CBR To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > > Could it be the fuel pump? > > No. Not at all likely, even if you had a fuel pump. > And if I remember > correctly you do not have one. Well, there definitely is a fuel pump on the 1989 Honda CBR600F ... I suppose I could disconnect it from the carbs and crank the iginition to see if it's pumping out fuel. > FIRST! Did you drain the carburetors? That is the > first thing you should do > after a bike has been standing. If you have, or the > problem does not go away > after you do drain them then most likely the idle > jets are plugged. It may be > starting because you are getting fuel into the > system from what the accelerator > pump squirts in while you are trying to start the > bike. I did drain the carbs before the bike sat (bike sat for about 2 months without being ridden) and I looked at the float bowls at that point and they were very clean - no evidence at all of varnish. Your idea that it could be a clogged pilot jet is very possible as I didn't take out of the individual jets and clean them. I'll keep checking today. Thanks, Adam __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun May 23 14:29:29 2004 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Michael Jordan" , "'DC Cycles'" Subject: Re: Weather Forecast for tomorrow: NO RAIN so come to Bike Night! Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 14:29:38 -0400 Rain, bleh. That'd wash the mud off the KLR, diminishing the poser points therein should I ride it to Bike Night. Paul in DC -- www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Jordan" To: "'DC Cycles'" Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 12:40 PM Subject: RE: Weather Forecast for tomorrow: NO RAIN so come to Bike Night! > > http://www.geocities.com/bikenight/ > > I'll take rain over cicadas any day :-P > > Michael J. > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun May 23 14:34:30 2004 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Rob Sharp" , "Carl Schelin" , Subject: Re: E-Bay Scams Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 14:34:39 -0400 Think about it for a second. Why would eBay or Paypal need *you* to "verify" your passwords and account info, etc. Don't they already have this information? Anyway, they re-direct you to a URL that is not eBay or Paypal. You don't have to be an internet wizard to figure this out; the fraud is pretty transparent. I have reported some of these scams to Paypal and I get a canned email back saying that yes, they are fraudulent sites, thank you for writing, blah, blah, blah. Paul in DC -- www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob Sharp" > People get their ebay and paypal accounts hacked. Then the hackers use it to > rip people off. Ever see those emails from paypal asking you to go to their > site and confirm your info. Usually they are fake sites and they use the > account info they trick out of you and good feedback to rip people off. > Sucks huh > > Rob > > On Sat, 22 May 2004 18:25:16 -0700 (PDT), Carl Schelin wrote > > Yea yea, I know. > > > > I was poking around on e-bay looking at the GSXR 1000/1300's and > > found several entries that seemed too good to be true. All from > > accounts that were activated today, all from Canada and all with > > "Buy it now's" running a couple thousand less than what I've been > > seeing in the paper and at the dealers. Some said they needed the > > money for various things and had to sell at a sacrifice. Funny thing > > is, they had 5 or 6 bikes/4x4's for sale. > > > > Anyway, one guy had one. 2002 Hayabusa for a BIN of 4500. He had a high > > positive response code (over 700). I sent him an e-mail asking where > > he was located. If he was localish or local to people I know, I > > could check it out for myself or have someone check it for me. I got > > a reply. The bike's in LA, a couple of day ride from here. > > > > However I checked the headers from his e-mail and found his IP > > address was > > 82.79.16.132 which, according to ripe.net is based in Romania. > > *sniff* *sniff*, smells like dog shit. > > > > I said that it was too far away and thanks all the same. I submitted > > the e-mail to e-bay for investigation. > > > > Carl > > > > ===== > > 02 Harley FXSTI > > 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W > > 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70/year > > http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer > > > -- > Rob Sharp > 1996 Honda VFR 750 > 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme > SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA > Network Security Engineer > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun May 23 14:42:41 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 14:42:25 EDT Subject: Re: Starting problem - CBR To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 5/23/2004 2:27:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ajreinhardt@XXXXXX writes: > > Well, there definitely is a fuel pump on the 1989 > Honda CBR600F . Indeed there is, my bad. No need to disconnect anything. open the drains on your carbs and spin the engine (or just flip the engine cut off switch on and off repeatedly) if fuel pours out the pump works. If it just drizzles probably not. (Have you checked the fuse?) John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC 1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European 1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles 1976, Honda CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun May 23 16:41:44 2004 From: "Sean Steele" To: "DC Cycles" Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 16:41:14 -0400 Subject: Stripped oil drain pan bolt So I went to change oil for the first time this afternoon on my Seca. The oil drain pan bolt head is mangled pretty badly -- I can't get a purchase on it. Any ideas for getting it out? I'm assuming (optomistically) that the threads aren't stripped as well. Now off to ratbike night. -Sean War-shington, DC '92 Seca II (Beater-tour) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun May 23 17:37:05 2004 Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 17:39:14 -0400 To: "Sean Steele" , "DC Cycles" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Stripped oil drain pan bolt At 04:41 PM 5/23/04 -0400, Sean Steele wrote: >So I went to change oil for the first time this afternoon on my Seca. >The oil drain pan bolt head is mangled pretty badly -- I can't get a >purchase on it. > >Any ideas for getting it out? I'm assuming (optomistically) that the >threads aren't stripped as well. What kind of bolt is it? Allen? Hex? Something else? Without knowing the type, if you can't grab it with whatever is supposed to be used on it, or Vise Grips or some other general purpose grabber, the only other options that come to mind are the "Dremmel a new slot for your screwdriver" trick (works best on small fasteners), and the "chisel a notch and hammer it around" trick (works best on big nuts, and with an air hammer). Other than that, you'd need special tools, like that "Grabbit" thing that Sears sells, or a drill and a left-handed tap to make a threaded hole in the bolt that you can put a left-handed bolt into and turn it out. Which might be the best option would depend on the size of the thing, what it's made of, and how tightly it's stuck in place. Any of these are going to require replacement of the plug, but you probably are figuring on doing that anyway. ;-) -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun May 23 17:37:06 2004 Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 17:28:51 -0400 To: "Michael Jordan" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: Pocket bikes and Cruz'n for Cancer Ride At 08:06 AM 5/23/04 -0400, Michael Jordan wrote: >> I saw one cruising down Constitution Ave last week. In that >> venue I think I would be a bit concerned about visibility. > >No need to be concerned, Bob, they're almost invisible. Sounds like the ideal terrorist assault vehicle then... The first ever "Cruz'n For Cancer" ride was today. Not sure of the official participation total, but I estimated somewhere between 300-400 bikes based on a head count at the end of the ride while folks were eating (and the band was playing). The Montgomery County Police did an *excellent* job escorting the ride, so there were no stops due to signs or lights, and no problems with traffic breaking up the line of bikes. There was one accident though...a rider near the end hit the throttle when he meant to hit the brakes at a turn and ran into a stopped truck (how do you do that on a bike??? In a car I could understand it, they are right next to each other, but a bike??). Wheaton Rescue was bringing up the rear on the ride, and rendered assistance, and the rider was airlifted to a hospital, where he's reported in reasonable condition. The folks who planned this did a great job. It was well organized, ran on schedule, had a nice pleasant route with a lot of variety (about 65 miles total), a decent band and good food. What more would you want? The only comment for next year that I heard was to eliminate some of the smaller roads from the route. The more narrow, winding roads tended to result in slowdowns, and even one or two short halts, and the line went from a faster, wider road and switched from staggered to single file. Not a problem with 20 bikes, but with 300-400, it wasn't ideal. With a big turnout for the first event, and with that as the worst complaint, I'd say it was a big success! I'd do it again...and I think they are planning to do so next year, but no dates have been announced that I know of. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun May 23 17:47:59 2004 Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 14:47:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Ryan Santoso Subject: Tickets by Park Rangers... To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Hi, I got a ticket on the Blue Ridge parkway this weekend in the Virgina/North Carolina border of the Parkway. Does anyone know if they will carry over to your state? I was busted for 66 on a 45...ouch! Ryan __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun May 23 18:50:47 2004 Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 15:50:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: E-Bay Scams To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Stephen Miller wrote: > When I see a bike like that at a price like that I assume it is either > wrecked, stolen, or a scam. Which was why I asked for the location. At least if I can see it, I can be assured of the bike and owner existing. Since he doesn't want to give me his address (he travels a lot :-), I told him that I wasn't interested. He said he pulled the auction because he had a bunch of buyers so I told him to sell to one of them since I wanted to see the bike first. Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 06:57:28 2004 From: Stephen Miller Subject: Re: Stripped oil drain pan bolt Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 06:57:48 -0400 To: DC Cycles Get an appropriately-sized *six point* box-end wrench (let me guess, it's either a 14mm or 17mm) and a hammer, and tap that box end over the bolt. The head was soft enough to mangle, it's probably soft enough to re-conform. Remember, six-points. On May 23, 2004, at 4:41 PM, Sean Steele wrote: > So I went to change oil for the first time this afternoon on my Seca. > The oil drain pan bolt head is mangled pretty badly -- I can't get a > purchase on it. > > Any ideas for getting it out? I'm assuming (optomistically) that the > threads aren't stripped as well. > > Now off to ratbike night. > > -Sean > War-shington, DC > '92 Seca II (Beater-tour) > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 09:13:16 2004 Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 06:12:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Ray Subject: To Louisville & Back To: DC Cycles Thought ya'll might be interested in a report from my weekend's trip... ***************** To Louisville & Back I)B’d had plans for a while to meet a friend. Originally it was to be halfway between us, in Charleston, WV. Then she was going to head here. It turned out that she had too much on her plate to take a 3-day weekend. Well, if Mohammed won)B’t come to the mountain, the mountain will have to go to Mohammed. Looks like I was headed to Louisville, KY, which is about 600 miles each way.. I had bought the bike with the intention of making trips, so time to put the intentions to the test, and see if I could handle longer trips. The Bike: A 2003 Suzuki Bandit 1200S. Green. All of 1400 miles on the odometer when I started. The only major changes were a set of handlebars from a 1st generation Bandit, and handlebar risers, both of which moved the bars up & back into a more comfortable position. I)B’d gotten a Suzuki gel seat, but didn’t use it. After trying it, it positioned me a bit more forward, and didn)B’t let me move around as much. So I left it at home, and used the stock seat. I got a throttle rocker at the last minute. Luggage included a Held tankbag and Tourmaster Cortech saddlebags & tailbag. I didn)B’t really need all of that room for stuff, but since I had them I took the opportunity to pack extra gear. I)B’m glad I did….. The Gear: Nolan N100 helmet, Joe Rocket (JR) Revolution jacket & pants, JR Phoenix mesh jacket, Fieldsheer Titanium Air Mesh pants, Teknic Violator gloves, JR Phoenix Gloves, padded bike shorts. I)B’m glad I had the mesh stuff with me )B– It warmed up enough on both legs of the trip, that I would have baked in the regular gear. Of course, the mesh stuff would have been chilly in the mornings. The jacket has a liner, but I need to work something out for the pants. Perhaps a set of wind pants worn over the mesh. We)B’ll see. The trip there: I left Alexandria, VA at 6:00 am Friday morning, May 21, 2004. Hit the Beltway (I-495) to I-66. At 6 am on a Friday, traffic was still fairly light. Took I-66 West to I-81, and I-81 South to I-64. Fairly standard interstate, no real interest. Again, fairly light traffic. I-64 West between 81 and exit 156 was nice for interstate. Light traffic, and rolling through the hills. Nice scenery. At exit 156, I hopped on US 60. US 60 was a really nice alternate, and took me through many smaller WV towns, with lots of open areas in between. It had some nice twisties through the mountains. I took US 60 Up to Charleston WV, then hopped back on I-64 which I look on to Louisville. This portion of I-64 was typical superslab, fairly straight, poor pavement, some road construction, and decent traffic. I arrived in Louisville at 5:00, and spent the last half hour stuck in traffic, working my way to Ash)B’s house at 5:30. Considering that I stopped for a real breakfast, a fastfood lunch, gas stops every 150 miles, and several other rest stops, not a bad trip. The trip back: I left Louisville at 7 am Sunday morning. I took I-64 back to Charleston, WV. It was the same road I took Friday, with the same comments. Typical interstate. At Charleston, I took I-79 North. I-79 through the mountains was fairly nice, with light traffic, good road condition, and interesting scenery. At exit 99 I hopped on US 33 East to Seneca Rocks. The first part of 33 has been )B“improved” to a divided highway, but had good pavement condition, light traffic, and decent scenery through the mountains. After Elkins, it is mostly 2-lane, but also in the process of being improved, so had a section of divided lanes. At Seneca Rocks I took US 55 North. This followed the South Branch of the Potomac River, and was nice to drive through. I saw tons of bikers on 33 & 55 between Elkins and I-81. Mainly Harleys, Goldwings, and some sportbikes. 55 is also being improved in sections, which was nice because by that time I was tired, and liked being able to make time. I followed 55 to I-81, but was on I-81 only for a couple of miles before hitting I-66 east to DC. I-66 on Sunday afternoons usually has fairly heavy traffic of folks returning to the city. This Sunday was no different. It moved fairly well, but I hopped on the Fairfax Co. Parkway when I had a chance, and rode that on home. I got home at 5:45 Sunday night. Stats: 1189 total miles, 31.1 gallons of gas, 38.2 mpg average. This seems low )B– hopefully it will get better as the bike gets broken in. Comments: I *really* need a better seat for cruising. I would be fine for a while after each stop, but would eventually start riding on alternate butt-cheeks to try to keep putting miles on. The throttle-rocker was a great addition, and made things fairly nice. Despite a regular dosing of Advil & aspirin every 4 hours, my neck/shoulder was hurting by the end of the trip Sunday. Conclusion: Can)B’t wait to go on more of the same. Slightly shorter trips/more time would let me do less slab, and make the trip more interesting. I need to work the bugs out of my gear selection. BETTER SEAT! And music )B– I need music for the slab sections. Time to get some decent ear buds for my mp3 player. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 09:48:09 2004 Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 09:47:06 -0400 (EDT) From: dan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: FS: 2000 VFR 800 Selling the VFR, here are the specs: 2000 Honda VFR800 -Yellow -11,500 miles -Micron High Mount (still have stock can) -PCII with Micron Map -BT010/BT020 front/rear tires, about 1k miles on them -Kimpex Grip Heaters -Remote Mount Whistler Radar Detector,stealth mounted -Regular Oil changes with Mobil 1 Red Top -Rear fender chop mod -Fresh brake and clutch fluids -always garaged I'm the second owner, I bought it in July of 2002 from the first owner, it had 1800 miles on it and was gently broken in with the intial 600 mile service by the dealer. It has never been down, plastics are in perfect condition save for a few rock chips on the lower front fairing. No paint fade or scratches. Starts and runs like new. I put the PCII and Micron on late last summer, they gave it a nice boost in power. Averaging about 220 miles between fillups, ~48mpg. I'll be sad to see it go, but the garage is getting too full. Asking price $5750. Hucksters from 3rd world countries wishing to play their check cashing scheme should save their keystrokes. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 09:49:42 2004 From: Stephen Miller Subject: Re: E-Bay Scams Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 09:50:08 -0400 To: DC Cycles Even if the guy let me see the bike and ride it, I'd be suspicious of some sort of scam. The price is so far out of line with what the market tells us. On May 23, 2004, at 6:50 PM, Carl Schelin wrote: > > --- Stephen Miller wrote: >> When I see a bike like that at a price like that I assume it is either >> wrecked, stolen, or a scam. > > Which was why I asked for the location. At least if I can see it, I > can be > assured of the bike and owner existing. Since he doesn't want to give > me > his address (he travels a lot :-), I told him that I wasn't > interested. He > said he pulled the auction because he had a bunch of buyers so I told > him > to sell to one of them since I wanted to see the bike first. > > Carl > > > ===== > 02 Harley FXSTI > 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W > 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year > http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 10:36:17 2004 Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 07:36:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Ray Subject: Bike Night? To: DC Cycles So, how was it? Anyone go? I was tempted to stop by on my way back from Louisville, but my ass was too sore and I was looking forward to seeing my girlfriend... Brian __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 10:39:34 2004 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 10:39:22 EDT Subject: Re: new rider embarassing moment To: adamme1@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 5/21/2004 3:51:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, adamme1@XXXXXX writes: > > From: Skip > Date: 2004/05/21 Fri AM 11:24:40 EDT > To: skip@XXXXXX > Subject: new rider embarassing moment > >I say that we ought to go ride sometime and he says > that he's got to do some more practicing for his license test next week. ...wait a minute...he's riding WITHOUT A FUCKING LICENSE???? -------------------------------- Probably has his learners permit if he's practicing to go take the test. Scooter From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 10:44:03 2004 Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 07:43:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Bike Night To: DC Cycles Thanks for all that attended Bike Night and a big boo for those that did not! If you can write the emails why can't you ride the bike? Bike Night was great considering it was the first event. We had about 80 bikes at one time or another. Jorge at Carpool was nice enough to reserve the entire parking lot for us. The only downside to that is that the bikes were spreadout and it did not appear as crowded. We had quite a few people from Sportbike.net and .com show up. They need to realize that this is not some Barnes and Noble shit where you just sit and hang. Bike Night is at a bar for a reason: COME INSIDE and mingle (and buy something). Great to see those from DC Cycles who showed up. My posts on Craiglist.org also brought many new faces in. A great variety of bikes, many cruisers this time. Next Bike Night TBA! __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 11:07:20 2004 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: lisagoddard@XXXXXX Subject: wife plows in to hubby Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 15:07:15 GMT Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 05:45:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Wife Hits Husband on Motorcycle: Helmet Saves His Life To: DC Cycles >From the Edmonton Sun, May 18th/2004: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Wife plows into hubby A motorcyclist sustained a fractured ankle last night after his speed bike was hit from behind by a pickup truck driven by his wife, police say. I knew a couple who had a similar one. He was in front on a Valkyrie, she was behind him on a small female friendly cruiser. He signaled and slowed to turn in to a roadside fruit stand as discussed at their previous stop. She didn't notice and plowed in to him, flipping a Valkyrie and sending him in to the hospital with multiple fractures. If memory serves Valkyries are enourmous, heavy bikes with a low center of gravity. The weird part was that they have been long term significant others, for 15+ years. Due to separate insurance policies not wanting to pay their limits one of them had to sue the other one to get sufficient funds out of the insurance companies to cover medical bills. I don't remember the details but it was the land of strange legal loopholes. For the record: No, I have only hit Jay on purpose playing stoplight games such as tapping his wheel for fun, usually shortly followed by cutting his ignition and perhaps grabbing his bike keys! I usually prefer to crash his bikes all by myself and don't need his presence on the bike to accomplish that. Lisa Goddard www.motorcycleleatherexchange.com '95 VFR '97 GSXR 600 --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 11:08:47 2004 From: "Rob Sharp" To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Diesel Motorcycle and Gas Milage. Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 23:34:58 -0400 Picked this up on the VFR list. Don't you have a KL 650 Paul ? It looks pretty sweet. 120 mph aint to shabby either. My VFR seems to get about 45 mpg(sensible throttle control), what do some of you other guys get on your bikes? http://www.motorcyclecity.com/Military-bikes/M1030Diesel-Kawasaki.htm -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 11:30:35 2004 Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 11:30:24 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: Rob Sharp , DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Diesel Motorcycle and Gas Milage. -----Original Message----- From: Rob Sharp Picked this up on the VFR list. Don't you have a KLR 650 Paul ? It looks pretty sweet. 120 mph aint to shabby either. My VFR seems to get about 45 mpg(sensible throttle control), what do some of you other guys get on your bikes? http://www.motorcyclecity.com/Military-bikes/M1030Diesel-Kawasaki.htm ----------- Yup, I'm still waiting on the civilian version of this beast to come out. 120 miles and a 6-gallon tank. You do the math. Only about four VFRs at bike night. All four 90+ generations. Mine stayed home; I rode the Kawitractor. Kawi gets ~50 mpg; VFR 35-40 mpg depending on how frisky I am with the throttle. Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 11:37:31 2004 Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 08:37:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: E-Bay Scams To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Stephen Miller wrote: > Even if the guy let me see the bike and ride it, I'd be suspicious of > some sort of scam. The price is so far out of line with what the market > tells us. > That's what I mean though. There were a lot of positives and two possibly suspicious items. The suspicious ones were of course the price and that the shots were taken at a dealership. No bike dealership would sell that low unless there was a problem. But the guy had a real high positive response rate (over 700). That's why I asked to see it. It mostly looks ok but there's something out of whack. Maybe if I see it and the dealership, I'll understand. Of course, once the e-mails started coming in, I was sure it was a scam. Of the 6 or so e-mails, 5 were posted from a Romania IP address. The english in each message got progressively worse. And he pushed the "you can return it in 15 days" rather than coming to see it. Since I reported it to e-bay, I figured I shouldn't let him know I was on to him so they can recover the account. Yea, probably not but still. Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 11:43:50 2004 Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 11:06:14 -0400 To: DC Cycles From: Troutman Subject: Re: Bike Night At 10:43 AM 5/24/2004, Mark Kitchell wrote: >Thanks for all that attended Bike Night and a big boo >for those that did not! If you can write the emails >why can't you ride the bike? Speaking for myself out in suburbia, I have no interest in riding into Arlington for a bike night. Plan one out towards Centreville / Manassas / Reston and I'll be there. Perhaps we should start a NOVA cycles list. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles. One who does not know the enemy but knows himself will sometimes win, sometimes lose. One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself will be in danger in every battle. - Sun Tzu From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 11:53:13 2004 Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 08:53:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Bike Night To: DC Cycles Sorry, none of the stripmalls have reserved parking. --- Troutman wrote: > At 10:43 AM 5/24/2004, Mark Kitchell wrote: > >Thanks for all that attended Bike Night and a big > boo > >for those that did not! If you can write the > emails > >why can't you ride the bike? > > Speaking for myself out in suburbia, I have no > interest in riding into > Arlington for a bike night. Plan one out towards > Centreville / Manassas / > Reston and I'll be there. Perhaps we should start a > NOVA cycles list. > > > > ___________________________________________ > Mike Troutman > http://www.troutman.org/vfr > 1997 Honda VFR 750 > AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ > NMA http://www.motorists.org > > One who knows the enemy and knows himself > will not be in danger in a hundred battles. > One who does not know the enemy but knows himself > will sometimes win, sometimes lose. > One who does not know the enemy and does not know > himself > will be in danger in every battle. > - Sun Tzu > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 11:55:24 2004 Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 08:55:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Bike Night To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Troutman wrote: > At 10:43 AM 5/24/2004, Mark Kitchell wrote: > >Thanks for all that attended Bike Night and a big boo > >for those that did not! If you can write the emails > >why can't you ride the bike? > > Speaking for myself out in suburbia, I have no interest in riding into > Arlington for a bike night. Plan one out towards Centreville / Manassas > / > Reston and I'll be there. Perhaps we should start a NOVA cycles list. Yea, that was the problem with the book night of a couple of years ago. They were always on a work night and in Maryland. Sorry I couldn't make this one. Still a bit far away for me ;-) Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 12:16:43 2004 Reply-To: "Jon Strang" From: "Jon Strang" To: Subject: Re: Bike Night Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 12:17:27 -0400 Arlington is in NoVA. Maybe you need a western VA (not to be confused with West VA...western VA has slightly more teeth per capita) bike night...or did you mean a "no va" bike night for all of those "riders" that have basket cases for bikes. --jon (full disclosure: didn't attend bike night, live close to Carpool. Drank beer, ate pizza, rode my sofa to Couch Night). ----- "Troutman" wrote: > Plan one out towards Centreville / Manassas / > Reston and I'll be there. Perhaps we should start a NOVA cycles list. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 12:30:38 2004 Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 12:30:26 -0400 To: "DC Cycles" From: Troutman Subject: Re: Bike Night NoVA suburbs list? That just doesn't have the same ring to it. Offered suburban bike night as advice to generate more traffic for bike nights and rejected with sarcasm by Mr. Kitchell. No wonder you are list favorite Mark. I'm sure your sparkling personality really brings people from all over the city. Why not try the Falls Church area again - like 50/495/Gallows? I went to one of those a couple of years ago. Now rather than just email, I'm going for a ride. If I can find any strip mall parking, I'll eat too. At 12:17 PM 5/24/2004, you wrote: >Arlington is in NoVA. Maybe you need a western VA (not to be confused with >West VA...western VA has slightly more teeth per capita) bike night...or did >you mean a "no va" bike night for all of those "riders" that have basket >cases for bikes. > >--jon >(full disclosure: didn't attend bike night, live close to Carpool. Drank >beer, ate pizza, rode my sofa to Couch Night). > >----- "Troutman" wrote: > > > Plan one out towards Centreville / Manassas / > > Reston and I'll be there. Perhaps we should start a NOVA cycles list. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles. One who does not know the enemy but knows himself will sometimes win, sometimes lose. One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself will be in danger in every battle. - Sun Tzu From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 12:35:44 2004 Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 12:35:19 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: Jon Strang , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Bike Night -----Original Message----- From: Jon Strang Arlington is in NoVA. ------ I guess Mike doesn't recognize the retrocession of 1846. I do get a sense some of the downstate, outstate folks would happily be rid of the part of Alexandria and all of Arlington that lay within the ten-miles-square. ;-) ------ ----- "Troutman" wrote: > Plan one out towards Centreville / Manassas / > Reston and I'll be there. Perhaps we should start a NOVA cycles list. Great, just what's needed. More balkanization of the riding community along narrow geographical and interest-based lines. How about the DC-within-the-original-ten-miles-square-ratbikes list? Lordy, sure was rough riding the eight miles out to the "suburbs" for Bike Night. :) Agree with Mark that dedicated parking is probably a must to make these things a success. One of the reasons I don't particularly like Grevey's. Anyway, I don't think Mark and Chuck have the exclusive Bike Night franchise. Organize one in Manassas and I'll prolly make the arduous 20-mile schlep. Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 12:43:57 2004 Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 12:43:12 -0400 From: Brian Roach To: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Bike Night Jeezus Troutman ... wrong side of the bed this morning? I for one am glad to see someone doing all the work to organize the things. I've come from DE before (And would have again had the both of us not been previously engaged this weekend) ... which is a lot longer than the arduous journey on which you'd need to embark from 15 miles away. - Roach Troutman wrote: > NoVA suburbs list? That just doesn't have the same ring to it. > > Offered suburban bike night as advice to generate more traffic for bike > nights and rejected with sarcasm by Mr. Kitchell. No wonder you are > list favorite Mark. I'm sure your sparkling personality really brings > people from all over the city. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 12:54:38 2004 Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 09:54:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Bike Night To: DC Cycles Mike: Feel free to plan your own Bike Night whenever and where you wish. Personally I think 80 bikes from Nova, DC and MD was a great turnout for the first event (also with rain in the forecast). If that event was held further out almost all the non-Virginia riders would drop out, which would certainly result in a much smaller overall turnout. I fully expect 150+ bikes for our next event at Carpool. Not that numbers make a successful event since nobody is getting paid, but it does make for more fun when the parking lot is full. Personally, it would be a good time for me if only Chuck showed up. Its about hanging with fellow riders and shooting shit, nothing more, nothing less. My personality is what it is. I made an effort to shake hands with everyone who we did not know. Asked them where they heard about the event and made sure they felt welcomed. I also invited people that this list may consider unwelcome: squids , hardcore Harley-riders, black sportbike riders who wheelie down U street, moto messengers, rat bikers, etc. There will be even more at the next event if I get the opportunity to hand our flyers at Barnes and Noble, Rolling Thunder, Asylum, etc. So if its hard for you to get out of your comfort zone, please stay home. And when we have a Bike Night in the confines of the District, please keep your comments about DC cops, speed cameras, welfare moms, crack addicts, the mayor, the condition of the roads, lack of parking, liberals, gays and scooters to yourself. Mark PS: For me, the more the merrier and the more diverse the better. Hell is haning out with only VFR riders. We have COTU and IDGAH for that (-: PPS: Paul, I am joking about IDGAH! --- Troutman wrote: > NoVA suburbs list? That just doesn't have the same > ring to it. > > Offered suburban bike night as advice to generate > more traffic for bike > nights and rejected with sarcasm by Mr. Kitchell. > No wonder you are list > favorite Mark. I'm sure your sparkling personality > really brings people > from all over the city. > > Why not try the Falls Church area again - like > 50/495/Gallows? I went to > one of those a couple of years ago. > > Now rather than just email, I'm going for a ride. > If I can find any strip > mall parking, I'll eat too. > > At 12:17 PM 5/24/2004, you wrote: > >Arlington is in NoVA. Maybe you need a western VA > (not to be confused with > >West VA...western VA has slightly more teeth per > capita) bike night...or did > >you mean a "no va" bike night for all of those > "riders" that have basket > >cases for bikes. > > > >--jon > >(full disclosure: didn't attend bike night, live > close to Carpool. Drank > >beer, ate pizza, rode my sofa to Couch Night). > > > >----- "Troutman" wrote: > > > > > Plan one out towards Centreville / > Manassas / > > > Reston and I'll be there. Perhaps we should > start a NOVA cycles list. > > > ___________________________________________ > Mike Troutman > http://www.troutman.org/vfr > 1997 Honda VFR 750 > AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ > NMA http://www.motorists.org > > One who knows the enemy and knows himself > will not be in danger in a hundred battles. > One who does not know the enemy but knows himself > will sometimes win, sometimes lose. > One who does not know the enemy and does not know > himself > will be in danger in every battle. > - Sun Tzu > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 12:57:01 2004 Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 09:56:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Bike Night To: DC Cycles As for being a list favorite, its mildly funny to me that some of our other 'favorites', such as Gimer and Bartman never show up. Bartman, FYI, I can assure you would be safe at Bike Night. You would have to back up your shit talking though. --- Troutman wrote: > NoVA suburbs list? That just doesn't have the same > ring to it. > > Offered suburban bike night as advice to generate > more traffic for bike > nights and rejected with sarcasm by Mr. Kitchell. > No wonder you are list > favorite Mark. I'm sure your sparkling personality > really brings people > from all over the city. > > Why not try the Falls Church area again - like > 50/495/Gallows? I went to > one of those a couple of years ago. > > Now rather than just email, I'm going for a ride. > If I can find any strip > mall parking, I'll eat too. > > At 12:17 PM 5/24/2004, you wrote: > >Arlington is in NoVA. Maybe you need a western VA > (not to be confused with > >West VA...western VA has slightly more teeth per > capita) bike night...or did > >you mean a "no va" bike night for all of those > "riders" that have basket > >cases for bikes. > > > >--jon > >(full disclosure: didn't attend bike night, live > close to Carpool. Drank > >beer, ate pizza, rode my sofa to Couch Night). > > > >----- "Troutman" wrote: > > > > > Plan one out towards Centreville / > Manassas / > > > Reston and I'll be there. Perhaps we should > start a NOVA cycles list. > > > ___________________________________________ > Mike Troutman > http://www.troutman.org/vfr > 1997 Honda VFR 750 > AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ > NMA http://www.motorists.org > > One who knows the enemy and knows himself > will not be in danger in a hundred battles. > One who does not know the enemy but knows himself > will sometimes win, sometimes lose. > One who does not know the enemy and does not know > himself > will be in danger in every battle. > - Sun Tzu > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 13:23:31 2004 Subject: Bike Night Weekend and Moto Maintenance Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 13:23:28 -0400 From: "Julian Halton" To: "DC Cycles" One of the great things about this place is freedom of speech and expression. I was hoping to meet some of the regular posters on the list so I could put a face to an electronic persona. It was great to meet Chuck and see Mark again who kindly took some time out to stop into one of my bar gigs and introduce himself. Sean Steele, Andy, Paul Wilson..and Bill..fun chatting with you guys. Even the elusive Rich Hall popped in on his silver steed. I was looking forward to a day of good riding..and started my usual jaunt up to Annapolis. Halfway up 50 my right hand was numb and I am now a victim of road vibration. It sucks because it annoys and distracts. I have to play Doctor and attempt a diagnosis... As the tires and then the suspension are what connects the rest, I am going to guess one or the other needs to be looked at. I put the bike on a friend's Micron mount (got to get me one) and lubed the chain and spun the rear tire. At one particular point there is about a half inch hesitation where if I turn the wheel either way, there is a slight 'catch'. Wondering if this is normal and wondering if it contributes to right handlebar vibration in some way. As to my prior moans about shifting to second, clue 1 was long throw...thank a fellow lister....clue 2 was a tip from my all around work guru who said...next time you shift and pop it into neutral, goose the throttle and then ease it into second....no more clacking! From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 14:55:58 2004 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: "Sean Steele" , "DC Cycles" Subject: Re: Stripped oil drain pan bolt Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 14:55:46 -0400 Sears sells a new line of bolt extractors that are designed to grip the outside of the bolt head, as opposed to drilling a hole in the bolt. They are reported to work quite well (I haven't had to use them yet, fortunately). I'm not sure what the largest size available is, but it's probably worth a trip to Sears to check. Bob Meyer > > From: "Sean Steele" > Date: 2004/05/23 Sun PM 04:41:14 EDT > To: "DC Cycles" > Subject: Stripped oil drain pan bolt > > So I went to change oil for the first time this afternoon on my Seca. > The oil drain pan bolt head is mangled pretty badly -- I can't get a > purchase on it. > > Any ideas for getting it out? I'm assuming (optomistically) that the > threads aren't stripped as well. > > Now off to ratbike night. > > -Sean > War-shington, DC > '92 Seca II (Beater-tour) > > Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" '92 ST1100, "red STag" '02 919, "still looking for a name" A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers.... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 14:59:13 2004 From: "Sean Steele" To: "DC Cycles" Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 14:58:43 -0400 Subject: Re: Stripped oil drain pan bolt I picked up a set of "damaged bolt" extractors at Sears and plan to wage war on the forces of evil this evening. I'll keep you all posted. Thanks for the suggestions. -Sean War-shington, DC '92 Seca II "The Mangler" Bob Meyer wrote: > Sears sells a new line of bolt extractors that are designed to grip the outside of the bolt head, as opposed to drilling a hole in the bolt. They are reported to work quite well (I haven't had to use them yet, fortunately). > > I'm not sure what the largest size available is, but it's probably worth a trip to Sears to check. > > Bob Meyer > > >>From: "Sean Steele" >>Date: 2004/05/23 Sun PM 04:41:14 EDT >>To: "DC Cycles" >>Subject: Stripped oil drain pan bolt >> >>So I went to change oil for the first time this afternoon on my Seca. >>The oil drain pan bolt head is mangled pretty badly -- I can't get a >>purchase on it. >> >>Any ideas for getting it out? I'm assuming (optomistically) that the >>threads aren't stripped as well. >> >>Now off to ratbike night. >> >>-Sean >>War-shington, DC >>'92 Seca II (Beater-tour) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 15:02:24 2004 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: Ryan Santoso , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Tickets by Park Rangers... Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 15:02:17 -0400 I got one many years ago. Hmmm, probably about 20 years ago. Never showed up on my Maryland license. But things may have changed since then. Bob Meyer > > From: Ryan Santoso > Date: 2004/05/23 Sun PM 05:47:53 EDT > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Tickets by Park Rangers... > > > Hi, > > I got a ticket on the Blue Ridge parkway this weekend > in the Virgina/North Carolina border of the Parkway. > Does anyone know if they will carry over to your > state? > > I was busted for 66 on a 45...ouch! > > Ryan > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year > http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer > > Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" '92 ST1100, "red STag" '02 919, "still looking for a name" A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers.... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 15:08:21 2004 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: Ryan Santoso , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Tickets by Park Rangers... Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 15:08:14 -0400 I got one many years ago. Hmmm, probably about 20 years ago. Never showed up on my Maryland license. But things may have changed since then. Bob Meyer > > From: Ryan Santoso > Date: 2004/05/23 Sun PM 05:47:53 EDT > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Tickets by Park Rangers... > > > Hi, > > I got a ticket on the Blue Ridge parkway this weekend > in the Virgina/North Carolina border of the Parkway. > Does anyone know if they will carry over to your > state? > > I was busted for 66 on a 45...ouch! > > Ryan > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Domains )B– Claim yours for only $14.70/year > http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer > > Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" '92 ST1100, "red STag" '02 919, "still looking for a name" A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers.... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 15:47:58 2004 Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 12:47:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Dr Gridlock To: DC Cycles From today's chat Clifton, Va.: Why are motorcycles allowed in the HOV? The average Harley's gas mileage is equal to a Toyota Corolla. At the repair shop one of mechanics had a Harley and we ran his Harley and my BMW on an exhaust gas analyzer. For CO, NOX and other pollutants the Harley was anywhere between 20 to 100 hundred times higher than my car at the same RPM's that would equal 65 mph on the road. This was a stock Harley. Modified Harleys which are numerous on 66 and 395 pollute even more and get about 20 mpg. So why are they on HOV? Most bikes don't have fuel injection or catlytic converters. Dr. Gridlock: I believe the motorcycle lobby was heard. I also believe the state wants to encourage motorcycle commuting because they take up less room than autos/trucks. They also take up less parking at work places. While the motorcycle you mention may get only 20 mpg!, I wonder if the average mpg of all motorcycles isn't significantly higher. As you may be able to tell, I have no problems with motorcycles using HOV lanes... __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 15:59:16 2004 Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 15:59:06 -0400 To: DC Cycles From: Troutman Subject: Re: Dr Gridlock At 03:47 PM 5/24/2004, Mark Kitchell wrote: >Dr. Gridlock: I believe the motorcycle lobby was >heard. I also believe the state wants to encourage >motorcycle commuting because they take up less room >than autos/trucks. They also take up less parking at >work places. Thank you AMA and any other groups that lobbied successfully for HOV bikes. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles. One who does not know the enemy but knows himself will sometimes win, sometimes lose. One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself will be in danger in every battle. - Sun Tzu From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 16:21:46 2004 Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 16:21:33 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: Troutman , DC Cycles Subject: Re: Dr Gridlock -----Original Message----- From: Troutman Sent: May 24, 2004 3:59 PM To: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Dr Gridlock At 03:47 PM 5/24/2004, Mark Kitchell wrote: >Dr. Gridlock: I believe the motorcycle lobby was >heard. I also believe the state wants to encourage >motorcycle commuting because they take up less room >than autos/trucks. They also take up less parking at >work places. Thank you AMA and any other groups that lobbied successfully for HOV bikes. ------- Not without overcoming substantial opposition from an entrenched and blinkered VDOT bureaucracy, btw. I guess the author of that comment to the Grid thinks any vehicle getting worse mileage and allegedly polluting more than his BMW (cage) should be banned from the HOV lanes. Typical Me First thinking that is sadly all too common in this area. A few more points. 1) The emissions thing is largely irrelevant. Vehicles allowed in the lanes are all legally insured, registered and inspected. Virginia did muddy the waters a bit by allowing hybrid cars with "CF" plates to ride solo. 2) As noted, motorcycles take up little space. Besides, his theoretical stinkpot Harley would be doing a lot more environmental damage inching along in the regular lanes. 3) Motorcycles inflict little wear on the road surface. 4) Seems to me HOV use is a "reward" given to motorists who use their vehicles (marginally) more efficiently. A motorcyclist certainly fits that description. 5) The author commits the demagogue's offense of comparing his own conduct to an egregious example, a higher modified Harley. What about the motorcycle fleet as a whole? Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 16:31:29 2004 Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 16:28:03 -0400 To: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX, adamme1@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: new rider embarassing moment At 10:39 AM 5/24/04 EDT, ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: >In a message dated 5/21/2004 3:51:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >adamme1@XXXXXX writes: >> From: Skip >>I say that we ought to go ride sometime and he says >> that he's got to do some more practicing for his license test next week. > >...wait a minute...he's riding WITHOUT A FUCKING LICENSE???? >-------------------------------- >Probably has his learners permit if he's practicing to go take the test. >Scooter In Maryland that only entitles you to ride on the public roadways if you are accompanied by a licensed motorcycle rider....you said he was alone didn't you? Is it different where you live? -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 16:31:51 2004 Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 16:32:08 -0400 To: Mark Kitchell , DC Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Bike Night At 07:43 AM 5/24/04 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote: >Thanks for all that attended Bike Night and a big boo >for those that did not! If you can write the emails >why can't you ride the bike? Some of us were riding much of the weekend...Bike Nite was scheduled on a day with at least two other moto events in the area, and I was at one of them. Glad you had fun anyway! -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 16:44:54 2004 Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 16:44:56 -0400 To: "DC Cycles" From: Troutman Subject: Shooting and riding is possible? http://www.nbc4.com/news/3339387/detail.html "From what our investigation is showing us now, a vehicle, possibly a motorcycle traveling west on Shepherd Street, began to fire at another vehicle, we believe was traveling north on 4th Street," ...on another note, apparently an old Nighthawk can get 100 mpg, and is fueling a wave of new riders eager to avoid prices at the pump. http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/8743181.htm ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles. One who does not know the enemy but knows himself will sometimes win, sometimes lose. One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself will be in danger in every battle. - Sun Tzu From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 16:48:00 2004 Subject: RE: Shooting and riding is possible? Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 16:47:57 -0400 From: "Julian Halton" To: "Troutman" , "DC Cycles" Especially if it was a lefty...like me....remember Mad Max. -----Original Message----- From: Troutman [mailto:mike@XXXXXX] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 4:45 PM To: DC Cycles Subject: Shooting and riding is possible? http://www.nbc4.com/news/3339387/detail.html "From what our investigation is showing us now, a vehicle, possibly a motorcycle traveling west on Shepherd Street, began to fire at another vehicle, we believe was traveling north on 4th Street," ...on another note, apparently an old Nighthawk can get 100 mpg, and is fueling a wave of new riders eager to avoid prices at the pump. http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/8743181.htm ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles. One who does not know the enemy but knows himself will sometimes win, sometimes lose. One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself will be in danger in every battle. - Sun Tzu From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 16:52:05 2004 Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 16:44:42 -0400 To: Mark Kitchell , DC Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Bike Night At 09:56 AM 5/24/04 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote: >As for being a list favorite, its mildly funny to me >that some of our other 'favorites', such as Gimer and >Bartman never show up. I was at an ERC course on Saturday (rode out at 6:30am, got back at 4:30pm, just in time to head to another event that ran until midnight. Got to sleep at 2am, for an alarm at 7am to get to the Cruz'n for Cancer ride...that ran until 3pm. At that point I got to head home to take care of all the chores I'd been ignoring for the other events. I was a bit tired by then anyway, and when I'm tired, I'm grumpy. Believe me, I did you a favor by not showing up. >Bartman, FYI, I can assure you would be safe at Bike >Night. You would have to back up your shit talking >though. I know I'd be safe, but would Gimmer? That's a more relevant question. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 16:52:06 2004 Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 16:53:31 -0400 To: Mark Kitchell , DC Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Bike Night At 09:54 AM 5/24/04 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote: >Mike: > >Feel free to plan your own Bike Night whenever and >where you wish. Personally I think 80 bikes from >Nova, DC and MD was a great turnout for the first >event (also with rain in the forecast). If that event >was held further out almost all the non-Virginia >riders would drop out, which would certainly result in >a much smaller overall turnout. Yes, 80 bikes is a decent turnout. No, holding it farther out wouldn't put off those of us from Maryland or other non-Virginia places. I'd rather ride out to Reston than in to Arlington...especially since I can get there via Point of Rocks, which is a much prettier and more relaxing ride than the Beltway/Parkway one. I suspect you will find a bigger division between suburban/city riders than between MD/VA/WV. People get used to the type of riding where they live, and don't always like other kinds of riding much. >So if its hard for you to get out of your comfort >zone, please stay home. And when we have a Bike Night >in the confines of the District, please keep your >comments about DC cops, speed cameras, welfare moms, >crack addicts, the mayor, the condition of the roads, >lack of parking, liberals, gays and scooters to >yourself. While many of those things are a disincentive to riding into D.C., the main one for me is the high crime rate and prohibition against self-defense that the local government set up in violation of the U.S. Constitution. Don't feel too bad though...the same factors keep me from wanting to ride into Baltimore too, so D.C. isn't alone. Mike T., if you set up something out in Reston, I'll try to make it (assuming that that's not a disincentive! ;-) -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 16:57:30 2004 Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 16:59:48 -0400 To: "Julian Halton" , "DC Cycles" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Bike Night Weekend and Moto Maintenance At 01:23 PM 5/24/04 -0400, Julian Halton wrote: >At one particular point there is about a half inch hesitation where if I >turn the wheel either way, there is a slight 'catch'. Wondering if this >is normal and wondering if it contributes to right handlebar vibration >in some way. My understanding is that wheels should turn smoothly all the way around. If they don't, something is wrong. First two things that come to mind for possibilities are wheel bearings and brake rotors. I suppose a bent axle could do it too maybe, but that guess is just based on pedal bike experience...not sure how the differences in moto design will affect that as a possibility. I suppose it could even just be a rough spot on a brake rotor, since the pads tend to rub on them all the way around even when not "on". Anything that causes a sudden change in rolling resistance is likely to result in some sort of vibration while riding. Again, IANAM. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 16:58:46 2004 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Paul Wilson , Troutman , DC Cycles Subject: Re: Dr Gridlock Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 17:00:32 -0400 HOV is all about saving space on the roads and HAS nothing to do with fuel economy... Hence the acronym High Occupancy Vehicle. I have no clue why the hybrids are allowed in HOV with a single driver. I know it's to encourage their use but logic is so often lost on our gov't. Rob On Mon, 24 May 2004 16:21:33 -0400 (GMT-04:00), Paul Wilson wrote > -----Original Message----- > From: Troutman > Sent: May 24, 2004 3:59 PM > To: DC Cycles > Subject: Re: Dr Gridlock > > At 03:47 PM 5/24/2004, Mark Kitchell wrote: > >Dr. Gridlock: I believe the motorcycle lobby was > >heard. I also believe the state wants to encourage > >motorcycle commuting because they take up less room > >than autos/trucks. They also take up less parking at > >work places. > > Thank you AMA and any other groups that lobbied successfully > for HOV bikes. > > ------- > > Not without overcoming substantial opposition from an entrenched and > blinkered VDOT bureaucracy, btw. > > I guess the author of that comment to the Grid thinks any vehicle > getting worse mileage and allegedly polluting more than his BMW > (cage) should be banned from the HOV lanes. > > Typical Me First thinking that is sadly all too common in this area. > > A few more points. > > 1) The emissions thing is largely irrelevant. Vehicles allowed in > the lanes are all legally insured, registered and inspected. > Virginia did muddy the waters a bit by allowing hybrid cars with > "CF" plates to ride solo. > > 2) As noted, motorcycles take up little space. Besides, his > theoretical stinkpot Harley would be doing a lot more environmental > damage inching along in the regular lanes. > > 3) Motorcycles inflict little wear on the road surface. > > 4) Seems to me HOV use is a "reward" given to motorists who use > their vehicles (marginally) more efficiently. A motorcyclist > certainly fits that description. > > 5) The author commits the demagogue's offense of comparing his own > conduct to an egregious example, a higher modified Harley. What > about the motorcycle fleet as a whole? > > Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org > 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 17:03:10 2004 Subject: RE: Shooting and riding is possible? Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 17:03:07 -0400 From: "Sean Brady" To: "Troutman" , Given the way cars treat bikes around here at times, I can see why someone would be tempted to carry fire arms. Considering that I've been driven off the road a few times by people vearing into my lane, I take that as making threats upon the life of the rider with a deadly weapon (a 2 ton hunk of metal is a very dangerous thing to a motorcyclist). I do remember a case in court years back where a motorcyclist was convicted of murder for killing a family by kicking them off the road. Having said that, no, I don't carry while on the bike, nor do I want to. Just one of those "if I were in charge" things... My Adventurer gets over 40 MPG around town -- Much more when I go for my weekend rides. Sean -----Original Message----- From: Troutman [mailto:mike@XXXXXX] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 4:45 PM To: DC Cycles Subject: Shooting and riding is possible? http://www.nbc4.com/news/3339387/detail.html "From what our investigation is showing us now, a vehicle, possibly a motorcycle traveling west on Shepherd Street, began to fire at another vehicle, we believe was traveling north on 4th Street," ...on another note, apparently an old Nighthawk can get 100 mpg, and is fueling a wave of new riders eager to avoid prices at the pump. http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/8743181.htm ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles. One who does not know the enemy but knows himself will sometimes win, sometimes lose. One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself will be in danger in every battle. - Sun Tzu From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 17:13:52 2004 Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 17:15:10 -0400 To: Mark Kitchell , DC Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Dr Gridlock At 12:47 PM 5/24/04 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote: >>From today's chat > >Clifton, Va.: Why are motorcycles allowed in the HOV? >The average Harley's gas mileage is equal to a Toyota >Corolla. Actually, it's closer to a Prius if you go by actual mileage, rather than EPA "estimates" (which are seriously flawed when testing hybrids). Upper 30s to upper 40s, depending on model and riding style. Mine's gotten as much as 47 mpg on the highway prior to the Stage 1 filter change and tuning adjustments, and gets about 36 mpg around town even with the mods. Prius' seem to get about 32 average in actual practice according to owners. Gee...WWII technology beating out a modern hybrid... :-) >At the repair shop one of mechanics had a >Harley and we ran his Harley and my BMW on an exhaust >gas analyzer. For CO, NOX and other pollutants the >Harley was anywhere between 20 to 100 hundred times >higher than my car at the same RPM's that would equal >65 mph on the road. This was a stock Harley. Modified >Harleys which are numerous on 66 and 395 pollute even >more and get about 20 mpg. When you say "Harley" are you referring to bikes made by Harley-Davidson, or are you including customs made by who-knows-who with engines made by other companies too? As for pollution levels, any engine without anti-polution systems is going to put out more of the stuff those systems scrub out than an engine with them. Cars have them, bikes don't...yet...so you'd probably get similar results with any bike in that size range. >While the motorcycle you mention may get only 20 mpg!, >I wonder if the average mpg of all motorcycles isn't >significantly higher. It is. Bikes that get 20 mpg are equivalent to muscle cars...which get less than half that mileage. They are all about power, not efficiency. They are not in the majority by any means. Heck, we've got a ride captain in the local HOGs group that's got a 103 ci stroker on his Fat Boy, and he still gets at least 35 mpg highway (judging by his 175 mi+ trips between fillups with a 5 gal tank). -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 17:27:34 2004 Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 14:27:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: Mike Bartman , Mark Kitchell , DC Cycles Subject: Re: Bike Night -----Original Message----- From: Mike Bartman While many of those things are a disincentive to riding into D.C., the main one for me is the high crime rate and prohibition against self-defense that the local government set up in violation of the U.S. Constitution. Don't feel too bad though...the same factors keep me from wanting to ride into Baltimore too, so D.C. isn't alone. ----- One wonders how I've survived all these years. Why, two of my neighbors are lifelong DC residents, and they've managed to attain their 60s. Good luck, I guess. :) Truth be told, having lived in Chicago, DC feels like a small town to me. I don't give crime a second thought. Really, I don't, I not spinning. Yes, undoubtedly, there are pockets. But, those are places suburbanites never frequent-- unless they're looking to score some recreational pharmaceuticals or a little "companionship for hire," that is. Perhaps you should get out more and talk to real people and not blindly accept the cartoonish view of DC (or other larger cities) that's presented in the media. So, high crime? Do you think you're going to be jumped the instant you hit the city limits? Just wondering. :) And, for another thing, it's prolly the one place in the metro area where you're not viewed as a freak of nature because you ride a motorcycle or bicycle for transportation purposes. Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 17:40:06 2004 From: "Michael Jordan" To: "'Sean Brady'" , "'Troutman'" , Subject: RE: Shooting and riding is possible? Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 17:39:58 -0400 > Given the way cars treat bikes around here at times, I can > see why someone would be tempted to carry fire arms. I would LOVE to carry a paintball gun with flourescent paint balls. Get 'em on the driver's door and leave a marking for all to see that this clown is dangerous. Sadly, the paintball gun is viewed to be as nasty as my .45. I don't want to kill 'em - just embarrass 'em. > Having said that, no, I don't carry while on the bike, nor do > I want to. I do, and do. Riding is typically limited to VA, WV, NC & TN for that reason. Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 17:44:05 2004 From: "Sean Steele" To: "DC Cycles" Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 17:43:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Bike Night Paul Wilson wrote: > One wonders how I've survived all these years. Why, two of my neighbors are lifelong DC residents, and they've managed to attain their 60s. Good luck, I guess. :) Truth be told, having lived in Chicago, DC feels like a small town to me. I don't give crime a second thought. Really, I don't, I not spinning. Yes, undoubtedly, there are pockets. But, those are places suburbanites never frequent-- unless they're looking to score some recreational pharmaceuticals or a little "companionship for hire," that is. Perhaps you should get out more and talk to real people and not blindly accept the cartoonish view of DC (or other larger cities) that's presented in the media. > > So, high crime? Do you think you're going to be jumped the instant you hit the city limits? Just wondering. :) And, for another thing, it's prolly the one place in the metro area where you're not viewed as a freak of nature because you ride a motorcycle or bicycle for transportation purposes. Anecdotal: since 1996 I've lived in Tysons Corner, Fairfax Circle, Arlington (Clarendon), 2 spots in Capitol Hill, and the West End (think Georgetown on this side of Rock Creek). If we cancel out the insurance events -- 2 auto break-ins in the 'burbs vs. a modest house break-in in the City -- and factor in the time and quality o' life gained, it's a slam dunk (as Tenet would say to GW). By not having to cage it every single GD time to go anywhere (grocery store, gym, dry cleaners, pub/bar, movie theatre, bookstore, restaurants, post office, pharmacy, airport) I have more time to do fun stuff. Like ride. Living in urbania is, on the whole, WAY better than living in the 'burbs. Until I have too many chilluns runnin' around here and not enough bedrooms I'll take my chances in da District. Did I mention real estate doubles in value every 9 minutes here? -Sean War-shington, DC '92 Seca II "Urban Combat Drone" From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 17:44:43 2004 From: "Michael Jordan" To: "'Rob Sharp'" , "'DC-Cycles'" Subject: RE: Diesel Motorcycle and Gas Milage. Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 17:44:32 -0400 > 120 mph aint to shabby either. Pretty fast for a dirt bike. Actually, diesels get infinite gas mileage as they don't burn the stuff at all. ;-) Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 17:51:23 2004 From: Stephen Miller Subject: Re: Bike Night Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 17:51:50 -0400 To: DC Cycles I didn't get home from Classic Bike Day until 7:30 or so, myself. Good time -- anyone else go? On May 24, 2004, at 4:32 PM, Mike Bartman wrote: > At 07:43 AM 5/24/04 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote: >> Thanks for all that attended Bike Night and a big boo >> for those that did not! If you can write the emails >> why can't you ride the bike? > > Some of us were riding much of the weekend...Bike Nite was scheduled > on a > day with at least two other moto events in the area, and I was at one > of them. > > Glad you had fun anyway! > > > > -- Mike B. > > '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley > folks) > > Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's > mistakes > is better. > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 18:21:53 2004 Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 18:24:13 -0400 To: Paul Wilson , Mark Kitchell , DC Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Bike Night At 02:27 PM 5/24/04 -0700, Paul Wilson wrote: >-----Original Message----- >From: Mike Bartman >While many of those things are a disincentive to riding into D.C., the main >one for me is the high crime rate and prohibition against self-defense that >the local government set up in violation of the U.S. Constitution. > >Don't feel too bad though...the same factors keep me from wanting to ride >into Baltimore too, so D.C. isn't alone. > >----- > >One wonders how I've survived all these years. Why, two of my neighbors are lifelong DC residents, and they've managed to attain their 60s. Good luck, I guess. :) Undoubtably. George Burns lived to be over 100 despite smoking cigars, so I guess all that lung/lip/throat/etc. cancer stuff is hogwash, and smoking is perfectly safe? >Truth be told, having lived in Chicago, DC feels like a small town to me. I don't give crime a second thought. Really, I don't, I not spinning. Bully for you. I've seen the stats though, and I've worked in D.C. before (first year I was in the area at 17th and L, and a few years later out at NRL), and driven through it in years past to get from PG county to Arlington, and my ex-wife was living on Virginia Avenue when we met. I've seen the flaming cars on the side of I-295, the vandalism, even watched an armed robbery escape at the Watergate (almost intervened, but my GF grabbed my arm and yelled no, and the hesitation let the opportunity pass...probably for the best). >Yes, undoubtedly, there are pockets. There are places where crime is far more likely than others, yes. As a whole, that description fits D.C. even when compared to the adjacent states though, so I stay out of it as much as possible, same way you stay out of the worst parts of D.C.. Same idea, larger geographic area. The fact that in my limited experience with them the D.C. cops are almost as bad as the gang members doesn't make me want to go there much either. At least you got Marion Barry out of the mayor's office. Too bad you let him back into government on the City Council though...that doesn't demonstrate a mentality I want to be anywhere near on the part of those who voted at the time. Most of this goes for Baltimore too BTW, though the worst crime I've actually witnessed there was an assault by a guy armed with a trash can (the kind the city puts on the sidewalks downtown)...that was on the street a couple of blocks from the Wyndham Hotel about 4pm on a Saturday afternoon. >Perhaps you should get out more and talk to real people and not blindly accept the cartoonish view of DC (or other larger cities) that's presented in the media. Perhaps you should quit assuming you have a clue what I know, where I've been or where I go? >So, high crime? Do you think you're going to be jumped the instant you hit the city limits? Just wondering. :) The instant? Probably not. If I go there enough, at some point? Yeah, it's a lot more likely than if I don't go there in the first place. Chances are higher there than most places in the country. It's not the "murder capital of the US" over and over again for nothing, and other crime is higher there too. I believe D.C. invented the "car-jacking" thing. Oh, yeah, my Dad's car was stolen by a D.C. resident (the car was just off Rt. 1 in Alexandria at the time though). A cop spotted him in it in D.C., and realized that the guy couldn't afford a 280-Z (he'd arrested the guy twice before for auto theft, so it wasn't racial profiling...it was personal acquaintance) and gave chase. The car was totaled (got airborn at least twice), but they caught the guy, and he was convicted. It was his *9th* conviction for grand theft auto, and he had yet to serve any time in jail...all prior convictions were suspended or whatever you call it when they let you go instead of putting you in a cell. He didn't get any jail time for stealing my dad's car either...though he did get 2 years for possession of a gun while on parole. Note that this guy was a D.C. resident...where pistols aren't allowed except for the government and a privileged few (like Teddy Kennedy's bodyguard...arrested for trying to get one into the Capital a while back). It's no wonder D.C.'s crime rate is what it is when there's essentially no penalty for serious felonies. I'm not likely to fall off my bike and hit my head on any given ride either...haven't done it in thousands of miles of riding on three different bikes over a number of years...yet I was getting a lot of suggestions that not wearing a full face helmet is just insane last week. Why is it silly to worry about statistical probabilities that are unlikely in one case, but not in the other, when the consequences in either case could be serious? -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 18:26:09 2004 Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 15:26:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Bike Night To: DC Cycles God, who cares what you think about DC? I am deleting this before reading. However, without reading I bet there is at least one reference to Marion Barry? Let me know if I am right. --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 02:27 PM 5/24/04 -0700, Paul Wilson wrote: > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Mike Bartman > > >While many of those things are a disincentive to > riding into D.C., the main > >one for me is the high crime rate and prohibition > against self-defense that > >the local government set up in violation of the > U.S. Constitution. > > > >Don't feel too bad though...the same factors keep > me from wanting to ride > >into Baltimore too, so D.C. isn't alone. > > > >----- > > > >One wonders how I've survived all these years. > Why, two of my neighbors > are lifelong DC residents, and they've managed to > attain their 60s. Good > luck, I guess. :) > > Undoubtably. George Burns lived to be over 100 > despite smoking cigars, so > I guess all that lung/lip/throat/etc. cancer stuff > is hogwash, and smoking > is perfectly safe? > > >Truth be told, having lived in Chicago, DC feels > like a small town to me. > I don't give crime a second thought. Really, I > don't, I not spinning. > > Bully for you. I've seen the stats though, and I've > worked in D.C. before > (first year I was in the area at 17th and L, and a > few years later out at > NRL), and driven through it in years past to get > from PG county to > Arlington, and my ex-wife was living on Virginia > Avenue when we met. I've > seen the flaming cars on the side of I-295, the > vandalism, even watched an > armed robbery escape at the Watergate (almost > intervened, but my GF grabbed > my arm and yelled no, and the hesitation let the > opportunity > pass...probably for the best). > > >Yes, undoubtedly, there are pockets. > > There are places where crime is far more likely than > others, yes. As a > whole, that description fits D.C. even when compared > to the adjacent states > though, so I stay out of it as much as possible, > same way you stay out of > the worst parts of D.C.. Same idea, larger > geographic area. The fact that > in my limited experience with them the D.C. cops are > almost as bad as the > gang members doesn't make me want to go there much > either. At least you > got Marion Barry out of the mayor's office. Too bad > you let him back into > government on the City Council though...that doesn't > demonstrate a > mentality I want to be anywhere near on the part of > those who voted at the > time. > > Most of this goes for Baltimore too BTW, though the > worst crime I've > actually witnessed there was an assault by a guy > armed with a trash can > (the kind the city puts on the sidewalks > downtown)...that was on the street > a couple of blocks from the Wyndham Hotel about 4pm > on a Saturday afternoon. > > >Perhaps you should get out more and talk to real > people and not blindly > accept the cartoonish view of DC (or other larger > cities) that's presented > in the media. > > Perhaps you should quit assuming you have a clue > what I know, where I've > been or where I go? > > >So, high crime? Do you think you're going to be > jumped the instant you > hit the city limits? Just wondering. :) > > The instant? Probably not. If I go there enough, > at some point? Yeah, > it's a lot more likely than if I don't go there in > the first place. > Chances are higher there than most places in the > country. It's not the > "murder capital of the US" over and over again for > nothing, and other crime > is higher there too. I believe D.C. invented the > "car-jacking" thing. > > Oh, yeah, my Dad's car was stolen by a D.C. resident > (the car was just off > Rt. 1 in Alexandria at the time though). A cop > spotted him in it in D.C., > and realized that the guy couldn't afford a 280-Z > (he'd arrested the guy > twice before for auto theft, so it wasn't racial > profiling...it was > personal acquaintance) and gave chase. The car was > totaled (got airborn at > least twice), but they caught the guy, and he was > convicted. It was his > *9th* conviction for grand theft auto, and he had > yet to serve any time in > jail...all prior convictions were suspended or > whatever you call it when > they let you go instead of putting you in a cell. > He didn't get any jail > time for stealing my dad's car either...though he > did get 2 years for > possession of a gun while on parole. Note that this > guy was a D.C. > resident...where pistols aren't allowed > except for the government and a privileged few (like > Teddy Kennedy's > bodyguard...arrested for trying to get one into the > Capital a while back). > It's no wonder D.C.'s crime rate is what it is when > there's essentially no > penalty for serious felonies. > > I'm not likely to fall off my bike and hit my head > on any given ride > either...haven't done it in thousands of miles of > riding on three different > bikes over a number of years...yet I was getting a > lot of suggestions that > not wearing a full face helmet is just insane last > week. Why is it silly > to worry about statistical probabilities that are > unlikely in one case, but > not in the other, when the consequences in either > case could be serious? > > > > > -- Mike B. > > '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI > for the non-Harley folks) > > Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from > someone else's mistakes > is better. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 19:37:01 2004 Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:36:47 -0400 From: Dale Horstman To: Paul Wilson CC: Jon Strang , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Bike Night Paul Wilson wrote: > Organize one in Manassas and I'll prolly make the arduous 20-mile schlep. I'd show for one in Manassas. Horkster -- Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark) Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX '98 Concours - BugSlayer Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth '99 Concours - Grape Nehi CM #001 NRA IBA COG '82 GS850G - Neat old bike The Mason Dixon 20-20 Endurance Rally: The Games People Play Come join us in 2004: http://www.masondixon20-20.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 19:50:19 2004 Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:50:05 -0400 From: Dale Horstman To: Michael Jordan CC: "'Sean Brady'" , "'Troutman'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Shooting and riding is possible? Michael Jordan wrote: > I do, and do. Riding is typically limited to > VA, WV, NC & TN for that reason. If you *had* to be limited to 4 States to ride in, you could do far worse than the 4 listed above. :) Horkster -- Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark) Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX '98 Concours - BugSlayer Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth '99 Concours - Grape Nehi CM #001 NRA IBA COG '82 GS850G - Neat old bike The Mason Dixon 20-20 Endurance Rally: The Games People Play Come join us in 2004: http://www.masondixon20-20.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 20:31:05 2004 Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 17:30:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Bike Night To: Mark Kitchell , DC Cycles --- Mark Kitchell wrote: > As for being a list favorite, its mildly funny to me > that some of our other 'favorites', such as Gimer and > Bartman never show up. oh christ. gotta drop everything, including wife and baby, to make an appearance at bikenight -- otherwise be labeled a no-showing pussy! rules are rules, i guess.... -- nsp > Bartman, FYI, I can assure you would be safe at Bike > Night. You would have to back up your shit talking > though. > > --- Troutman wrote: > > NoVA suburbs list? That just doesn't have the same > > ring to it. > > > > Offered suburban bike night as advice to generate > > more traffic for bike > > nights and rejected with sarcasm by Mr. Kitchell. > > No wonder you are list > > favorite Mark. I'm sure your sparkling personality > > really brings people > > from all over the city. > > > > Why not try the Falls Church area again - like > > 50/495/Gallows? I went to > > one of those a couple of years ago. > > > > Now rather than just email, I'm going for a ride. > > If I can find any strip > > mall parking, I'll eat too. > > > > At 12:17 PM 5/24/2004, you wrote: > > >Arlington is in NoVA. Maybe you need a western VA > > (not to be confused with > > >West VA...western VA has slightly more teeth per > > capita) bike night...or did > > >you mean a "no va" bike night for all of those > > "riders" that have basket > > >cases for bikes. > > > > > >--jon > > >(full disclosure: didn't attend bike night, live > > close to Carpool. Drank > > >beer, ate pizza, rode my sofa to Couch Night). > > > > > >----- "Troutman" wrote: > > > > > > > Plan one out towards Centreville / > > Manassas / > > > > Reston and I'll be there. Perhaps we should > > start a NOVA cycles list. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 20:33:21 2004 Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 17:33:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Bike Night To: Mike Bartman , Mark Kitchell , DC Cycles --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 09:56 AM 5/24/04 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote: > >As for being a list favorite, its mildly funny to me > >that some of our other 'favorites', such as Gimer and > >Bartman never show up. > > I was at an ERC course on Saturday (rode out at 6:30am, > got back at 4:30pm, > just in time to head to another event that ran until > midnight. Got to > sleep at 2am, for an alarm at 7am to get to the Cruz'n > for Cancer > ride...that ran until 3pm. At that point I got to head > home to take care > of all the chores I'd been ignoring for the other events. > I was a bit > tired by then anyway, and when I'm tired, I'm grumpy. > Believe me, I did > you a favor by not showing up. > > >Bartman, FYI, I can assure you would be safe at Bike > >Night. You would have to back up your shit talking > >though. > > I know I'd be safe, but would Gimmer? That's a more > relevant question. what does this comment mean? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 20:39:13 2004 Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 17:39:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Bike Night To: Tom Gimer , DC Cycles Tom, don't drop the baby, ok? We were actually hoping for a deathmatch btw you and Bartman. --- Tom Gimer wrote: > --- Mark Kitchell wrote: > > As for being a list favorite, its mildly funny to > me > > that some of our other 'favorites', such as Gimer > and > > Bartman never show up. > > oh christ. gotta drop everything, including wife > and baby, > to make an appearance at bikenight -- otherwise be > labeled > a no-showing pussy! > > rules are rules, i guess.... > > -- > nsp > > > > > > Bartman, FYI, I can assure you would be safe at > Bike > > Night. You would have to back up your shit > talking > > though. > > > > --- Troutman wrote: > > > NoVA suburbs list? That just doesn't have the > same > > > ring to it. > > > > > > Offered suburban bike night as advice to > generate > > > more traffic for bike > > > nights and rejected with sarcasm by Mr. > Kitchell. > > > No wonder you are list > > > favorite Mark. I'm sure your sparkling > personality > > > really brings people > > > from all over the city. > > > > > > Why not try the Falls Church area again - like > > > 50/495/Gallows? I went to > > > one of those a couple of years ago. > > > > > > Now rather than just email, I'm going for a > ride. > > > If I can find any strip > > > mall parking, I'll eat too. > > > > > > At 12:17 PM 5/24/2004, you wrote: > > > >Arlington is in NoVA. Maybe you need a western > VA > > > (not to be confused with > > > >West VA...western VA has slightly more teeth > per > > > capita) bike night...or did > > > >you mean a "no va" bike night for all of those > > > "riders" that have basket > > > >cases for bikes. > > > > > > > >--jon > > > >(full disclosure: didn't attend bike night, > live > > > close to Carpool. Drank > > > >beer, ate pizza, rode my sofa to Couch Night). > > > > > > > >----- "Troutman" wrote: > > > > > > > > > Plan one out towards Centreville / > > > Manassas / > > > > > Reston and I'll be there. Perhaps we should > > > start a NOVA cycles list. > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. > http://messenger.yahoo.com/ > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 20:58:43 2004 Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 17:58:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Bike Night To: Mark Kitchell , DC Cycles --- Mark Kitchell wrote: > Tom, don't drop the baby, ok? > > We were actually hoping for a deathmatch btw you and > Bartman. too funny. rumor has it bartman may actually have trouble controlling his urge to hurt me. some folks just have trouble with email lists, it seems. > --- Tom Gimer wrote: > > --- Mark Kitchell wrote: > > > As for being a list favorite, its mildly funny to > > me > > > that some of our other 'favorites', such as Gimer > > and > > > Bartman never show up. > > > > oh christ. gotta drop everything, including wife > > and baby, > > to make an appearance at bikenight -- otherwise be > > labeled > > a no-showing pussy! > > > > rules are rules, i guess.... > > > > -- > > nsp __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 21:15:21 2004 Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 18:15:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Bike Night To: Tom Gimer , DC Cycles Apparently he goes everywhere armed so I would be careful. He could also kill you by talking your ear off. Ear falls off and brain falls out. Not a pretty picture. --- Tom Gimer wrote: > --- Mark Kitchell wrote: > > Tom, don't drop the baby, ok? > > > > We were actually hoping for a deathmatch btw you > and > > Bartman. > > too funny. > > rumor has it bartman may actually have trouble > controlling > his urge to hurt me. some folks just have trouble > with > email lists, it seems. > > > > > > > --- Tom Gimer wrote: > > > --- Mark Kitchell > wrote: > > > > As for being a list favorite, its mildly funny > to > > > me > > > > that some of our other 'favorites', such as > Gimer > > > and > > > > Bartman never show up. > > > > > > oh christ. gotta drop everything, including > wife > > > and baby, > > > to make an appearance at bikenight -- otherwise > be > > > labeled > > > a no-showing pussy! > > > > > > rules are rules, i guess.... > > > > > > -- > > > nsp > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. > http://messenger.yahoo.com/ > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon May 24 22:38:35 2004 From: "Dave Yates" To: "DC Cycles" Subject: Re: Bike Night Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 22:38:24 -0400 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec799f8c4d36d176afdda4cf19888386d3c3350badd9bab72f9c350badd9b