From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  1 00:00:15 2002
From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 00:00:06 EST
Subject: Re: Bike Quality
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

In a message dated 2/28/2002 1:01:48 PM Eastern Standard Time,
Rbeatty@XXXXXX writes:

> He fell in love with the Harley XL 1200

If it does not tickle your cookies, it aint worth having. Everything else is
secondary.

Oh and there is always the Buel Blast. It is a Harley???


John.
PenguinBiker@XXXXXX

From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  1 04:54:06 2002
From: JORAU1@XXXXXX
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 04:53:52 EST
Subject: Re: Bike Quality
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

I'm 45 years old and up till last June had been riding nothing but Japanese
bikes for the last 30 years, currently a 99 Concours and a 85 900 Ninja. For
some reason had always lusted after a Sportster. Finally did it and bought a
2001 1200 Sportster. All my riding buddies had told me I would hate it, you
know all the stories, it would shake its parts all over the road, oil leak
everywhere, break down on a regular basis,etc.
Guess what? This bike is the most fun I've had on a motorcycle. It is by far
not the fastest or the best handling bike I've ever owned but something about
it makes it the best to spend a day roaming the back roads. The handling is
decent enough, brakes work well, vibration is actually pleasant until about
70 mph, its a relaxed vibration not a busy buzz like my Concours.
Has it been the most reliable bike I've ever owned? No, but it has not been
bad, at 4500 miles the rocker box gaskets leaked oil, Harley had updated
steel gaskets to fix this and at 5500 the front belt sprocket came loose, new
sprocket& nut with locktite. The local dealer Elkridge HD, took me right in
and fixed both problems under warranty both time even though I did not buy it
there, another thing I was not used to as most Harley dealers I've dealt with
seem to really care about your business and your bike. Do it yourself
maintenance is easy and parts are cheaper than for my other bikes, and
usually in stock.
As someone's first bike I don't know, I started years ago on a 400, small and
easily
maneuverable. The Sportster is 500 pounds and actually has the highest seat
height of any Harley. As someone else said I think I would learn on something
smaller until I got past the dropping phase.
Hope did not ramble to much,
John


From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  1 07:32:50 2002
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 04:32:48 -0800 (PST)
From: Todd Withrow <mtwithrow@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: <OT> re: beginning the gun thread
To: sdave@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Cc: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX, HOFOJOKO@XXXXXX, bhuson@XXXXXX,
   SBave@XXXXXX, horkster@XXXXXX


--- sdave@XXXXXX wrote:
>>    <DJY> Are you also saying that there should be a
> criminal penalty
> for not securing a firearm in your own home ?
>

Actually there is if children are present. At least in
Va. That one more reason the trigger lock crap is
bogus. If you don't have kids, there is no need for a
trigger lock.



Todd W.

=====
AIM: Inf DS

http://www.geocities.com/mtwithrow

-----------------------------------------------------------
Used to be that we "worldproofed" our children. Now society wants to childproof the world.

__________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  1 07:44:06 2002
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 04:44:04 -0800 (PST)
From: Todd Withrow <mtwithrow@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: <OT> re: beginning the gun thread
To: "Roy D. Turner, Esq." <turnerr@XXXXXX>, sdave@XXXXXX,
   dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Cc: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX, HOFOJOKO@XXXXXX, bhuson@XXXXXX,
   SBave@XXXXXX, horkster@XXXXXX


--- "Roy D. Turner, Esq." <turnerr@XXXXXX> wrote:
> My opinion is let everyone own a gun.  This week I
> settled a hunting
> accident case on behalf of my client for $400K.  A
> hunter with 25 years of
> experience mistook my client for a deer and shot him
> in the leg.  The injury
> was very serious.   The accident occurred in the
> evening about 5 minutes
> before the end of the legal time to hunt.  My client
> did not have any blaze
> orange on, as it is not required during muzzle
> loader season.  I encourage
> everyone to go out and use firearms.   Let the
> flaming begin.
>
> Roy D. Turner
> www.cfolaw.com
>

Would you have been happier if he had been shot with a
bow? The hunter screwed up and used poor judgement.
Just like people who use poor judgement and cause auto
accidents, or industrial accidents, or other sporting
accidents.

Personally I don't hunt. I consider hunting areas a
two way rifle range. I think if you get shot while
hunting it is an assumed risk. That is like sueing the
guy that hit you on the race track. It is all part of
the sport. :) If every hunter follows the firearm
safety rules, people will not get shot accidently. If
everyone follows every traffic rule and regulation,
traffic accidents would drop by 99%.

Just my take on things.

Todd W.

=====
AIM: Inf DS

http://www.geocities.com/mtwithrow

-----------------------------------------------------------
Used to be that we "worldproofed" our children. Now society wants to childproof the world.

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion!
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From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  1 07:51:35 2002
From: "Jon Strang" <jmstrang@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Competition Accessories (was RE: new wind screen)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 07:50:08 -0500

I second that "stay away from competition accessories."

I'm in the middle of a similar battle (paid for pants, still no pants,
WTF?....and customer service full of shite!)


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Howard J. Koontz [mailto:HOFOJOKO@XXXXXX]
> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 10:02 PM
> To: cledford@XXXXXX
> Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> Subject: new wind screen
>
>
> Hey,
>      A cheaper and temporary but totally effective alternative to a whole
> new screen is a Rifle brand wind deflector. It's like a bug
> deflector for a
> bike's wind screen. It attaches to the top of the screen, and deflects air
> above the rider's head. I see them a lot on dual-sport type
> bikes, which are
> crap for wind deflection.
>
> Or, if you want to change the thing bad enough, there are wind
> screens with
> a lip on the edge that points up, deflecting air like a Rifle
> deflector, or
> try a Double bubble screen maybe?
>
> I can only say stay away from Competition Accessories. They suck. They
> charged my credit card for a tail trunk bag that was back ordered
> for over 2
> months. Customer service reps on the phone were completely worthless,
> feeding me BS constantly about "just wait a little longer" type comments,
> when it was totally obvious after the fact that they were clueless when or
> even if I would ever get my bag. I can't say enough bad things
> about how my
> business was handled.
>
> Howard J. Koontz
> 2001 Harley Davidson FLHT Electra Glide Standard
> 1972 Honda Z50AK3 Mini Trail Resto Project
>
>
>


From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  1 07:51:54 2002
From: "Bruhl, George LT" <GBruhl@XXXXXX>
To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Harley 1200
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 07:51:21 -0500

>I rented one (1200 sporty) along with a BMW R1100 or 1150 (the "new" boxer
>twin) for a vacation ride in Arizona with my brother a few years back.

Good advice...  rent one first.  Both Morton's BMW  (Spotsylvania) and Bob's
(Jessup) accommodate test rides.  I don't know about Harley but they might.


Arizona rents anything.  If you're looking for a great Harley rental in
Arizona try Hacienda HD in Scottsdale...  awesome store (ahem... boutique).

I rode my dads 66 FLH alotta years ago and they have greatly improved...
but HD does stuff which bothers me... like dual firing ignitions (when
single fire is soooo much more efficient), 70 degree V's, excessive amounts
of moving parts....stuff that just grates against my engineering mindset.
The owner ends up doing a lot of modification (if they're picky) to get it
"right".  Plus they are heavy, slowish and must be guarded with vigilance
(that may be true of just about any make these days).

If I was in the market for a cruiser of that particular genre' I would opt
for the Indian Chief (S & S motor) or something with a Rev Tech engine.  At
least the upgrades (for the most part) have been done and the bike is a turn
key mod.

gb
78 R80/7



From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  1 08:21:58 2002
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 08:31:24 -0500
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Wayne Edelen <wayne@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Competition Accessories (was RE: new wind screen)

At 07:50 AM 3/1/02 -0500, Jon Strang wrote:
>I second that "stay away from competition accessories."
>
>I'm in the middle of a similar battle (paid for pants, still no pants,
>WTF?....and customer service full of shite!)

I ordered a ZG Double Bubble windscreen from them on 2/18.  No indication
that it wasn't in stock or wouldn't ship immediately.  Called them
yesterday and found out that it isn't in stock and won't ship to me until
3/10.

Shitty service, IMO.  I should have been informed when I ordered that part.

At least when I ordered my Throttlemeister from AZ Motorsports they told me
it wasn't in stock and would be 2-3 weeks to ship.  I got a notice
yesterday that it shipped, approximately 2.5 weeks after ordering.  Not bad
 :-)

-- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/

From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  1 08:28:09 2002
From: "Jon Strang" <jmstrang@XXXXXX>
To: "Wayne Edelen" <wayne@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Competition Accessories (was RE: new wind screen)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:26:42 -0500

don't hold your breath on 3/10.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wayne Edelen [mailto:wayne@XXXXXX]

<snip>
> I ordered a ZG Double Bubble windscreen from them on 2/18.  No indication
> that it wasn't in stock or wouldn't ship immediately.  Called them
> yesterday and found out that it isn't in stock and won't ship to me until
> 3/10.
<snip>

From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  1 08:37:45 2002
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 08:47:17 -0500
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Wayne Edelen <wayne@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Competition Accessories (was RE: new wind screen)

At 08:26 AM 3/1/02 -0500, Jon Strang wrote:
>don't hold your breath on 3/10.

Doh  :-\

I wonder if I should call and cancel my order?  Decisions, decisions.

-- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/

From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  1 09:15:01 2002
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 07:59:07 -0600
From: "George Cole" <George.Cole@XXXXXX>
To: <SBave@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Bike Quality

>>> <SBave@XXXXXX><SNIP>
> But George, Aren't you the same guy who said a Concours could never pass a  VFR?  :)
>And Eye Abuser rides don't wave because they are too scared to let go of that  missile...LOL

Well...er...did I say that? Ok I waved to a Hyabussa once...

That whole Concours incident...embarrassing!.

George


From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  1 09:30:24 2002
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 06:30:22 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Competition Accessories (was RE: new wind screen)
To: jmstrang@XXXXXX, Wayne Edelen <wayne@XXXXXX>,
   dc-cycles@XXXXXX

cancel order with c/a; call zero gravity directly and have
the thing shipped today

funny, if i didn't see the header i'd think you guys were
talking about the lowlifes at motorcycle accessory
warehouse....


--- Jon Strang <jmstrang@XXXXXX> wrote:
> don't hold your breath on 3/10.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Wayne Edelen [mailto:wayne@XXXXXX]
>
> <snip>
> > I ordered a ZG Double Bubble windscreen from them on
> 2/18.  No indication
> > that it wasn't in stock or wouldn't ship immediately.
> Called them
> > yesterday and found out that it isn't in stock and
> won't ship to me until
> > 3/10.
> <snip>


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From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  1 09:44:44 2002
From: <christopher.meier@XXXXXX>
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 09:43:36 -0500
Subject: Re: '98-01 VFR Windscreen suggestions please...
To: terryo@XXXXXX
Cc: cledford@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX, vfr-digest@XXXXXX
X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on US-AMSMTA005/US/INTL(Release 5.0.9
 |November 16, 2001) at 03/01/2002 09:43:49 AM


I can vouch for that.  :-)

I have a GiVi on my RF900.  I was bothered that the wind hit me in the
chest/neck and put on the GiVI ... now, it hits me in the head. Doh!
(Note: the helibars probably contribute greatly to this).  It is not a
problem on the twisties, just when running at higher speeds on the open
spots (i.e. interstates).  However, if you like to tuck down on the tank
for the long drones, it is great ... total silence.

YMMV,
--Chris





Terry Onufer <terryo@XXXXXX> on 02/28/2002 06:35:44 PM





To:    "Ledford, Calvin" <cledford@XXXXXX>
cc:    "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
       "'vfr-digest@XXXXXX'" <vfr-digest@XXXXXX>
Subject:    Re: '98-01 VFR Windscreen suggestions please...


Cal, for what it's worth, the guy I am buying the 99VFR from had a Givi,
but
changed back to the stock. He was 5'9, and said the wind hit him square in
the
head, and the stock was better.

I can not speak from personal experience, but it is worth mentioning
because
this guy is bike nut.

TJ

"Ledford, Calvin" wrote:

>         All, I'd like to replace my current stock wind screen with one
that
> provides a little more wind protection, while maintaining a "sporty"
look.
>
>         I did a search through the archive and found what appears to be 3
> different vendors - Givi, Secdem (SP?), and Targa.  I was wondering if
> listers would send me their comments - favorable or otherwise about these
> different options.  I saw some posts that the Secdems had problems
fitting.
> I also don't care for how they show the different types on different
model
> bikes as it is difficult to get a true feeling for how each would look on
my
> bike.  Suggestions of where to purchase would be helpful too.
>
>         Please CC my email account at cledford@XXXXXX as I am a digest
> member.
>
>         Thanks,
>
>         -Calvin Ledford
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> The VF/VFR mailing list--see http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~john/vfr-list/
> for subscribe/unsubscribe, policy and archive information.


----------------------------------------------------------------
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
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taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited.   If you received
this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any
computer.


From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  1 10:00:01 2002
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 09:58:14 -0500
From: "William J. Huson" <bhuson@XXXXXX>
To: christopher.meier@XXXXXX
CC: terryo@XXXXXX, cledford@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX,
   vfr-digest@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: '98-01 VFR Windscreen suggestions please...

I searched for weeks to find a low windscreen for my Harley FLHS.  The astock
one, the only size, was way to high.  I *hate* looking thru a windscreen, and I
detest having to keep one clean enough to see thru!   The one I have now,
National Cycle I think, is perfect.  Yes, the wind does hit the top of my
helmet at road speed, and bugs and rain kinda splatter my head and shoulders,
but that's no real problem.  And I don't have to clean the damn thing!   Local
schoolkids use the windsceen for research whemn they're studying bugs!

Bill

christopher.meier@XXXXXX wrote:

> I can vouch for that.  :-)
>
> I have a GiVi on my RF900.  I was bothered that the wind hit me in the
> chest/neck and put on the GiVI ... now, it hits me in the head. Doh!
> (Note: the helibars probably contribute greatly to this).  It is not a
> problem on the twisties, just when running at higher speeds on the open
> spots (i.e. interstates).  However, if you like to tuck down on the tank
> for the long drones, it is great ... total silence.
>
> YMMV,
> --Chris


From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  1 10:42:37 2002
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 07:42:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: ScanMail Message: To Recipient Match eManager setting and take ac tion.
To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

--- harry@XXXXXX wrote:
> >**************** eManager Notification *****************
> >
> >The following mail was blocked since it contains
> sensitive content.
> >
> >Source mailbox:
>
>dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX(Thedc-cycleslistadministrator)
> >Destination mailbox(es): dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> >Rule/Policy: Profanity
> ...
>
> Kudos to Tom Gimer for triggering the profanity filter at
> aopa.org with the phrase "fuck 'em".

uh oh... i think i may have trouble here.  harry seldom
comes out to mix it up....

aopa?  hmmmmm...  broadstreet, you're a pilot!  fess up to
bringin granny with ya!


> I suppose we can either try to clean up our language,
> or else unsubscribe the listers whose mail server is
> generating these messages.
>
> Fuck 'em. Problem solved.

whew!  :)


--
tg

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From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  1 10:52:32 2002
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 10:45:02 -0500
To: "Rob Keiser" <robkeiser@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX,
   vfr-digest@XXXXXX
From: Lori Wilson <wilsonl@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: '98-01 VFR Windscreen suggestions please...

I have a Zero Gravity DB on my '98 and I love it. Although, I'm pretty
short so the stock one was o.k. too :)
(I've attached a pic to you Calvin)

At 11:14 PM 2/28/02 -0500, Rob Keiser wrote:
>Calvin,
>
>Don't know about the Targa's, but I've seen a Secdem and it looks like
>crap (rough cut lower edge and shit brown color tint) and with the Givi
>flip up at the top, you just killed your sporty edge (IMHO).
>
>I tried hard to get a tinted OEM one from overseas, but didn't have any
>luck, and also didn't want to pay the obscene amount to have one imported
>from Japan.  I ended up going for a Zero Gravity Double Bubble tinted one.
>The fit and finish was first rate and it installed in just a few minutes.
>
>Best place I've seen to get it, Arizona Motorsports with the VFR list
>discount:
>
>http://shop.store.yahoo.com/azmotorsports/zergravdoubb.html
>
>As always:  YMMV, no affiliation, yadda yadda yadda
>
>Let me know if you'd like to see it.
>
>Rob
>'98 Red
>
>From: "Ledford, Calvin" <cledford@XXXXXX>
>To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>,
>"'vfr-digest@XXXXXX'" <vfr-digest@XXXXXX>
>Subject: '98-01 VFR Windscreen suggestions please...
>Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 17:44:52 -0500
>
>         All, I'd like to replace my current stock wind screen with one that
>provides a little more wind protection, while maintaining a "sporty" look.
>
>         I did a search through the archive and found what appears to be 3
>different vendors - Givi, Secdem (SP?), and Targa.  I was wondering if
>listers would send me their comments - favorable or otherwise about these
>different options.  I saw some posts that the Secdems had problems fitting.
>I also don't care for how they show the different types on different model
>bikes as it is difficult to get a true feeling for how each would look on my
>bike.  Suggestions of where to purchase would be helpful too.
>
>         Please CC my email account at cledford@XXXXXX as I am a digest
>member.
>
>         Thanks,
>
>         -Calvin Ledford
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
>http://www.hotmail.com
>


From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  1 11:35:08 2002
From: "ROBERSON, Brian" <broberso@XXXXXX>
To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: '98-01 VFR Windscreen suggestions please...
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:34:59 -0500

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C1C13F.075EAC70

Calvin,

Another possibility is Zero Gravity's Sport-Tour screen.. Which is taller (I
THINK) than the double bubble.. I have it installed on my 99.  However,
being short, I think the wind now hits me in the head.. But it is easier to
tuck behind.

Brian

-----Original Message-----
From: Ledford, Calvin [mailto:cledford@XXXXXX]
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 5:45 PM
To: 'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'; 'vfr-digest@XXXXXX'
Subject: '98-01 VFR Windscreen suggestions please...


	All, I'd like to replace my current stock wind screen with one that
provides a little more wind protection, while maintaining a "sporty" look.

	I did a search through the archive and found what appears to be 3
different vendors - Givi, Secdem (SP?), and Targa.  I was wondering if
listers would send me their comments - favorable or otherwise about these
different options.  I saw some posts that the Secdems had problems fitting.
I also don't care for how they show the different types on different model
bikes as it is difficult to get a true feeling for how each would look on my
bike.  Suggestions of where to purchase would be helpful too.

	Please CC my email account at cledford@XXXXXX as I am a digest
member.

	Thanks,

	-Calvin Ledford

------_=_NextPart_001_01C1C13F.075EAC70

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
5.5.2653.12">
<TITLE>RE: '98-01 VFR Windscreen suggestions please...</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Calvin,</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Another possibility is Zero Gravity's Sport-Tour =
screen.. Which is taller (I THINK) than the double bubble.. I have it =
installed on my 99.&nbsp; However, being short, I think the wind now =
hits me in the head.. But it is easier to tuck behind.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Brian</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>From: Ledford, Calvin [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:cledford@XXXXXX">mailto:cledford@XXXXXX</A>] </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 5:45 PM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To: 'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'; =
'vfr-digest@XXXXXX'</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Subject: '98-01 VFR Windscreen suggestions =
please...</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=3D2>All, I'd =
like to replace my current stock wind screen with one that provides a =
little more wind protection, while maintaining a &quot;sporty&quot; =
look.</FONT></P>

<P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=3D2>I did a =
search through the archive and found what appears to be 3 different =
vendors - Givi, Secdem (SP?), and Targa.&nbsp; I was wondering if =
listers would send me their comments - favorable or otherwise about =
these different options.&nbsp; I saw some posts that the Secdems had =
problems fitting. I also don't care for how they show the different =
types on different model bikes as it is difficult to get a true feeling =
for how each would look on my bike.&nbsp; Suggestions of where to =
purchase would be helpful too.</FONT></P>

<P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=3D2>Please CC =
my email account at cledford@XXXXXX as I am a digest member.</FONT>
</P>

<P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT =
SIZE=3D2>Thanks,</FONT>
</P>

<P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=3D2>-Calvin =
Ledford </FONT>
</P>

</BODY>
</HTML>
------_=_NextPart_001_01C1C13F.075EAC70--

From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  1 11:49:37 2002
From: "Ledford, Calvin" <cledford@XXXXXX>
To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>,
   "'vfr-digest@XXXXXX'" <vfr-digest@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: '98-01 VFR Windscreen suggestions please...
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:48:48 -0500

All,

I wanted to post this to the list for anyone interested in 1998-2001 VFR
crash guards.  Attached is my email inquiry for ordering information, and
the reply.

Review and installation information can be found at:

http://www.hondavfr.com/reviews/hps.html

-Calvin

'00 VFR800 Interceptor
'84 VF500F Interceptor (For sale)

> I have a 2000 model VFR - could you send me the ordering information?
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Calvin Ledford
> Virginia, USA
>


Dear Calvin

Many thanks for your enquiry by e-mail.

I have pleasure in detailing our prices and other information below.

VFR800Fi HPS Heavy Duty Crash Protectors   M-#79.15

Shipping costs to the USA                  M-#32.20

Total order value                         M-#111.35

Available for immediate despatch.

The above prices are shown in Pounds Sterling, but would be approx. $162 US
Dollars.

Please also note the following points:

Prices are net to you and exclude VAT/sales tax (which is not payable on
orders exported out of Europe)

Payment can be be by, Bank/Wire Transfer, Credit/Debit Card, Cheque or Draft
in M-#/Sterling, drawn on a UK bank

* If payment is made by credit or debit card, for your security, credit card
regulations state that we simply require a photocopy either faxing or
posting of both sides of your card, with your signature, confirmation of the
order and the full address of the registered card holder, to which the order
must be despatched

I hope the information here has answered all of your questions, but please
don't hesitate to contact me again should you need any more information.

Thanks again for your enquiry and I look forward to receiving your order.

Regards

Graham Beardsmore

-------------------------------------------------------
Graham Beardsmore
Sales Department
-------------------------------------------------------
Harwood Performance Source
New Street  EUR Alfreton EUR Derbyshire
DE55 7BP EUR England


Tel UK:                0870 774  7740
Tel International:   +44177 383 11 22
Fax UK:                0870 774  7741
Fax International:   +44177 383 10 40



e-mail:  grahamb@XXXXXX
Web:      www.bikehps.com
--------------------------------------------------------
Company Registration No:  2658610
VAT Registration No:            125 7136 82
--------------------------------------------------------

HPS is a division of Gordon Harwood Computers Limited

Quotations are valid for 5 days from the date of issue and are subject to
availability and delivery option chosen at customerM-9s request and cost.

ManufacturersM-9 specifications and HPS prices are correct at time of going to
press; however, they may fluctuate and we therefore reserve the right to
		amend them - please confirm prices before ordering. E.&O.E.
> 	-Calvin Ledford

From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  1 12:15:27 2002
From: Stevens John R DLVA <StevensJR@XXXXXX>
To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: dc-cycles digest for 02/28/02
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 12:15:20 -0500

As a new rider, I would have to say that I am glad that I went with the "who
cares if it gets dropped" model, before moving up to something prettier.
(Although now that it's mine, I have grown attached to my old Sooz, and try
not to let it fall down TOO much!)  Another benefit of this type of bike is
that they are usually a good middle-of-the-road performer, and can help a
new rider decide which direction he or she wants to take with his or her
next bike.  BEFORE I started riding, I was dead set on the Harley cruiser,
but after riding a little bit I have decided that I want more performance,
and have been eying a nice ZX-6 as the next step in my M/C evolutionary
ladder.

Anyway, that's my newbie advice.  Start small and ratty to learn on, then
decide which way to go from there.


John Stevens
'77 Suzuki GS750
Waldorf, MD


          _                  _                  _                  _
     .-.-.=\-.          .-.-.=\-.          .-.-.=\-.          .-.-.=\-.
     (_)=='(_)          (_)=='(_)          (_)=='(_)          (_)=='(_)

Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:54:30 -0500
From: "Robert Beatty" <Rbeatty@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Bike Quality

--=_B8E5F7FC.5D3C7EFA

I have a friend who's looking into purchasing his first bike, a cruiser.
He fell in love with the Harley XL 1200. I don't have much of an opinion
on Harleys. Can you please send your responses?

I told him that most get off on the name and that I've heard that they
lack in quality.

--=_B8E5F7FC.5D3C7EFA

From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  1 12:18:16 2002
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 09:18:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Chris Weaver <chris_vtr@XXXXXX>
Subject: FJR1300 Comes to the USA
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

Yamaha has announced as of noon, eastern time that
they are bringing the FJR1300 to the U.S.

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/products/products.asp?lid=2&lc=mcy&rdir=1

Many sportbike fans were hoping for the new R6. After
posting a banner for the last week touting "The Super
Sport World Will Never Be the Same," they come out
with a !@#$ sport tourer with shaft drive and hard
luggage!? Bait and switch! The FJ looks like a great
bike - don't get me wrong - but I'm highly
disappointed.

Chris Weaver

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  1 12:42:48 2002
From: "Custer, Carl" <Carl.Custer@XXXXXX>
To: "'DCCycles'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: MSF digest
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 12:46:05 -0500

>From SabMag with snippage:
"My VFkR is history. On my way home from the "Dragon" Monday, some stupid in
a pickup rear-ended me as the line of traffic in front of me was coming to a
stop. She was doing about 60mph at impact, and I was nearly stopped.

[Mirror check is a Good Thing(TM) Lotsa local loonies linked -- and
distracted -- by cell phones, audio equipment, . . .]

"After fracturing my spine on her hood, I was launched into the tailgate of
the pickup in front of me, which I grabbed hold to and held on till I was
dragged to a stop."
<snip>
I always say there are two kinds of bikers... those who have crashed, and
those who are going to. I guess I was way over due for a crash, 36 years of
riding without a serious injury. Maybe this will last me for another 36
years......
Guys, don't skimp on your safety equipment. I don't think anything I could
have done would have prevented my back injury, but my leathers and quality
helmet positively prevented additional serious owwies in this crash.

[Safety Gear sermon # 43]
Or "Itz a wonder he din't brek hiz nek cuz he wuz weren' a helmut."


From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  1 13:05:48 2002
From: "Custer, Carl" <Carl.Custer@XXXXXX>
To: "'DCCycles'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Cc: "'wayne@XXXXXX'" <wayne@XXXXXX>
Subject: Bike Quality
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:09:10 -0500

Wayne Edelen responded to
"You gotta love the Harley culture, Do they not wave to Sportsters also?"
with, "You gotta love it when people generalize  :-)"
<Snip>
Aye, there're jerks on many brands (tho IMHO, more jerks seem to gravitate
to the "image" brands e.g. Lexus, Jaguar, . . .)

Once on the Cherahola, I saw a bunch of HD riders lining themselves up at a
stop to take a picture.
I pulled in and volunteered to click their cameras so everyone could be in
their pictures.
When they got ready, I said, "Smile, say Honda".
Got several good pictures and a good chat after that.  Turned out most of
them owned rice burners "It's nice to have a bike to get parts with" said
one.

"It's not what you ride, but that you ride."
Carl in Brr-thesda (waves at scooters and bicycles)

" . . . the weather being less thermally enhanced then a Wicca nursing
apparatus  . . ."
John W

From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  1 13:38:54 2002
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 13:38:14 -0500
From: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: FJR1300 Comes to the USA
To: Chris Weaver <chris_vtr@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

Chris Weaver wrote:

> http://www.yamaha-motor.com/products/products.asp?lid=2&lc=mcy&rdir=1
>
> Many sportbike fans were hoping for the new R6. After
> posting a banner for the last week touting "The Super
> Sport World Will Never Be the Same," they come out
> with a !@#$ sport tourer with shaft drive and hard
> luggage!? Bait and switch!

Nope.  Wolf in sheep's clothing.  :)

I think the FJR just might rock your world, Chris.
I'm glad to see it's coming (finally) to the States.
I hope it lasts as long as the Connie has.  It sure
looks worthy.  :)

Horkster
--
Same old Hork, but new email - horkster@XXXXXX

Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)

Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth

'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  1 14:00:09 2002
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:00:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Keith Lamond <keithlva@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: FJR1300 Comes to the USA
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

Gotta agree with the Horkster on this one.

An exciting real sport tourer is more needed in the
USA than another sportsbike.  Not that I don't like
sportsbikes, but we in the USA always seem to get
shafted when it comes to the niche market bikes.

Now if I just had money.  Honda ST1300, FJR1300,
hmm...

Keith

--- Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Chris Weaver wrote:
>
> >
>
http://www.yamaha-motor.com/products/products.asp?lid=2&lc=mcy&rdir=1
> >
> > Many sportbike fans were hoping for the new R6.
> After
> > posting a banner for the last week touting "The
> Super
> > Sport World Will Never Be the Same," they come out
> > with a !@#$ sport tourer with shaft drive and hard
> > luggage!? Bait and switch!
>
> Nope.  Wolf in sheep's clothing.  :)
>
> I think the FJR just might rock your world, Chris.
> I'm glad to see it's coming (finally) to the States.
> I hope it lasts as long as the Connie has.  It sure
> looks worthy.  :)
>
> Horkster
> --
> Same old Hork, but new email - horkster@XXXXXX
>
> Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)
>
> Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX
> Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth
>
> '98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer
> '99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi
> '82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  1 14:00:09 2002
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:00:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Keith Lamond <keithlva@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: FJR1300 Comes to the USA
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

Gotta agree with the Horkster on this one.

An exciting real sport tourer is more needed in the
USA than another sportsbike.  Not that I don't like
sportsbikes, but we in the USA always seem to get
shafted when it comes to the niche market bikes.

Now if I just had money.  Honda ST1300, FJR1300,
hmm...

Keith

--- Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Chris Weaver wrote:
>
> >
>
http://www.yamaha-motor.com/products/products.asp?lid=2&lc=mcy&rdir=1
> >
> > Many sportbike fans were hoping for the new R6.
> After
> > posting a banner for the last week touting "The
> Super
> > Sport World Will Never Be the Same," they come out
> > with a !@#$ sport tourer with shaft drive and hard
> > luggage!? Bait and switch!
>
> Nope.  Wolf in sheep's clothing.  :)
>
> I think the FJR just might rock your world, Chris.
> I'm glad to see it's coming (finally) to the States.
> I hope it lasts as long as the Connie has.  It sure
> looks worthy.  :)
>
> Horkster
> --
> Same old Hork, but new email - horkster@XXXXXX
>
> Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)
>
> Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX
> Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth
>
> '98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer
> '99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi
> '82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  1 14:45:47 2002
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 14:45:13 -0500
From: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: FJR1300 Comes to the USA
To: Keith Lamond <keithlva@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

Keith Lamond wrote:
>
> Gotta agree with the Horkster on this one.
>
> An exciting real sport tourer is more needed in the
> USA than another sportsbike.  Not that I don't like
> sportsbikes, but we in the USA always seem to get
> shafted when it comes to the niche market bikes.
>
> Now if I just had money.  Honda ST1300, FJR1300,
> hmm...

Problem is, not everyone is gonna run out and buy
a new FJR right away.  Some of us are gonna hang around,
see what the major bitches/complaints are, see if there
are any serious technical flaws/glitches with the bike,
before we consider switching over.

If Yammie isn't wowed by their sales figures the first
couple of years, they could drop the bike, right about
the same time it starts to develop a real following.
I hope that scenario doesn't happen, but it has in the
past (Suzi GSX1100G, Yammie GTS-1000, a couple others).

So all you squids, go out and buy one.  Let us know
how you like it.  Sell them to us cheap, and go buy some
more.   :)

Hork

--
Same old Hork, but new email - horkster@XXXXXX

Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)

Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth

'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  1 14:49:45 2002
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 14:48:55 -0500 (EST)
From: hcaldwell <hcaldwell@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Question about replacing solenoid


	A friend is replacing the starter solenoid(Sp?) on his
ZX6E and says the batter cables attach to the solenoid
but doesnt know if it matters which batter cable goes to
which end of the solenoid. One end of the solenoid is marked M
and the other is marked B.

Thanks
Hugh



From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  1 15:03:46 2002
From: "Jon Strang" <jmstrang@XXXXXX>
To: "hcaldwell" <hcaldwell@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Question about replacing solenoid
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 15:02:20 -0500

Hugh,

This help?

http://www.drintense.com/solenoid_diagram.htm

M motor (goes to ground after it goes through starter motor)
B Battery '+' terminal
should also be a "S" for switch (the '+' wire from the starter switch)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: hcaldwell [mailto:hcaldwell@XXXXXX]
> Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 2:49 PM
> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> Subject: Question about replacing solenoid
>
>
>
> 	A friend is replacing the starter solenoid(Sp?) on his
> ZX6E and says the batter cables attach to the solenoid
> but doesnt know if it matters which batter cable goes to
> which end of the solenoid. One end of the solenoid is marked M
> and the other is marked B.
>
> Thanks
> Hugh
>
>
>

From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  1 15:07:35 2002
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 15:07:26 -0500
Subject: Re: FJR1300 Comes to the USA
From: Sean Jordan <eternity23@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

> Problem is, not everyone is gonna run out and buy
> a new FJR right away.  Some of us are gonna hang around,
> see what the major bitches/complaints are, see if there
> are any serious technical flaws/glitches with the bike,
> before we consider switching over.

It has been out in Europe for some time now....should be a fairly good
base of info on it out there.



Sean Jordan
Jordan Racing / DC-Cycles Racing


From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  1 15:22:26 2002
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 15:22:00 -0500
From: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: FJR1300 Comes to the USA
To: Sean Jordan <eternity23@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

Sean Jordan wrote:

> It has been out in Europe for some time now....should be a fairly good
> base of info on it out there.

Yeah, but you've then gotta translate what those twits in
Europe are actually saying.  "It's the dog's bollocks!"  WTF?  :)

Hork
--
Same old Hork, but new email - horkster@XXXXXX

Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)

Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth

'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  1 16:20:54 2002
From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: speaking of back injuries and protectors
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:22:32 -0500

I've noticed some racers (on tv) and maybe one or two riders on the
street have back protectors that seem pretty much larger than the
usual, and they seem to extend upwards to possibly protect against
whiplash.

Can anyong give me any more info on these?

Thanks

Danny

From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  1 16:49:15 2002
Date: 1 Mar 2002 13:49:08 -0800
To: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
From: LAURA GRANATO <lgranato@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: speaking of back injuries and protectors

On Thu, 28 February 2002, daniel_ex250@XXXXXX wrote:

>
> I've noticed some racers (on tv) and maybe one or two riders on the
> street have back protectors that seem pretty much larger than the
> usual, and they seem to extend upwards to possibly protect against
> whiplash.
>
how do you mean larger?  Mind goes from the top of my shoulders all the way to my tailbone...what is the "usual"?

LAG


________________________________________________
PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart.
http://www.peoplepc.com

From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  1 16:49:38 2002
From: jessiev@XXXXXX
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: For Sale: Motorcycle 400cc - Annapolis, Maryland
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:51:15 -0500

On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:01:05 -0500, in md.forsale "JV"
<jessiev@XXXXXX> wrote:

Annapolis, Maryland - Motorcycle - 1980 400cc Yamaha Special.  Good
condition.  Runs well. Garage kept. Low Mileage Metzler tires.
Electric/kick start.  GREAT starter motorcycle.  Asking $700 or best
reasonable offer. Please do not hit your reply button to answer
ad.Please
e-mail jessiev@XXXXXX Pictures available upon request.



From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  1 17:10:35 2002
From: SBave@XXXXXX
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 17:10:04 EST
Subject: Re: FJR1300 Comes to the USA
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX


--part1_198.3111bc0.29b1563c_boundary

horkster@XXXXXX writes:


> Yeah, but you've then gotta translate what those twits in
> Europe are actually saying.  "It's the dog's bollocks!"  WTF?  :)

  LOL...one of the motorcycle mags did a ride on one around Germany a couple
of months ago. From what I remember the complains were abrupt fuel injection
and turbulence from the windscreen despite it being adjustable. They LOVED
the motor...

Steve Broadstreet
ZX-9

--part1_198.3111bc0.29b1563c_boundary

<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>horkster@XXXXXX writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Yeah, but you've then gotta translate what those twits in<BR>
Europe are actually saying.&nbsp; "It's the dog's bollocks!"&nbsp; WTF?&nbsp; :)</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
&nbsp; LOL...one of the motorcycle mags did a ride on one around Germany a couple of months ago. From what I remember the complains were abrupt fuel injection and turbulence from the windscreen despite it being adjustable. They LOVED the motor...<BR>
<BR>
Steve Broadstreet<BR>
ZX-9</FONT></HTML>

--part1_198.3111bc0.29b1563c_boundary--

From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  1 17:14:51 2002
From: SBave@XXXXXX
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 17:14:07 EST
Subject: Re: ScanMail Message: To Recipient Match eManager setting and take ac tion.
To: t_gimer@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX


--part1_b2.7665909.29b1572f_boundary

 t_gimer@XXXXXX writes:


> aopa?  hmmmmm...  broadstreet, you're a pilot!  fess up to
> bringin granny with ya!
>
  LOL   Yep...I'm a member. But being a computer idiot (among other things) I
have no idea how that message would get sent to the list by me just being a
member...I don't use them for e-mail or use the web site as my home page.
Ideas anyone?

Steve Broadstreet
ZX-9

--part1_b2.7665909.29b1572f_boundary

<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2> t_gimer@XXXXXX writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">aopa?&nbsp; hmmmmm...&nbsp; broadstreet, you're a pilot!&nbsp; fess up to<BR>
bringin granny with ya!<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
&nbsp; LOL&nbsp;&nbsp; Yep...I'm a member. But being a computer idiot (among other things) I have no idea how that message would get sent to the list by me just being a member...I don't use them for e-mail or use the web site as my home page. Ideas anyone?<BR>
<BR>
Steve Broadstreet<BR>
ZX-9<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
--part1_b2.7665909.29b1572f_boundary--

From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  1 17:19:09 2002
From: SBave@XXXXXX
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 17:18:53 EST
Subject: Re: Bike Quality
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX


--part1_107.dcd131b.29b1584d_boundary

 George.Cole@XXXXXX writes:

> >>> <SBave@XXXXXX><SNIP>
> > But George, Aren't you the same guy who said a Concours could never pass
> a  VFR?  :)
> >And Eye Abuser rides don't wave because they are too scared to let go of
> that  missile...LOL
>
> Well...er...did I say that? Ok I waved to a Hyabussa once...
>
> That whole Concours incident...embarrassing!.

  Don't be embarrassed...that mistake could be made by anyone.  :)
And don't worry about the Busa riders...they are just embarrassed that their
bike is so ugly...LOL     (kidding Wayne and Doug)!

Steve Broadstreet
ZX-9



--part1_107.dcd131b.29b1584d_boundary

<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2> George.Cole@XXXXXX writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;SBave@XXXXXX&gt;&lt;SNIP&gt; <BR>
&gt; But George, Aren't you the same guy who said a Concours could never pass a&nbsp; VFR?&nbsp; :)<BR>
&gt;And Eye Abuser rides don't wave because they are too scared to let go of that&nbsp; missile...LOL<BR>
<BR>
Well...er...did I say that? Ok I waved to a Hyabussa once... <BR>
<BR>
That whole Concours incident...embarrassing!.</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
&nbsp; Don't be embarrassed...that mistake could be made by anyone.&nbsp; :)<BR>
And don't worry about the Busa riders...they are just embarrassed that their bike is so ugly...LOL&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (kidding Wayne and Doug)!<BR>
<BR>
Steve Broadstreet<BR>
ZX-9<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
--part1_107.dcd131b.29b1584d_boundary--

From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  1 18:44:54 2002
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 18:54:15 -0500
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Wayne Edelen <wayne@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Bike Quality

At 05:18 PM 3/1/02 EST, you wrote:
>>>>

And don't worry about the Busa riders...they are just embarrassed that
their bike is so ugly...LOL     (kidding Wayne and Doug)!

Steve Broadstreet
ZX-9

Bastards! :-)

All you guys only get a look at the taillights.  You should see the front
some time!  ;-)  ;-)

-- Wayne

From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  1 19:40:59 2002
From: "Pierre C" <piffiffi@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: DC VFR head count
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 00:29:30 +0000

Hey,

The other day (about 10 days ago) I saw a yellow vfr on NY avenue, in NE DC.

Anyway, I was wondering if anyone in this list lives downtown DC.

Ciao,
Pierfrancesco

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worldM-^Rs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com


From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  1 22:13:59 2002
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 22:13:25 -0500
From: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: cbr600 with givi
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>


>  http://wolfcentral.net/norcalcog/f4givi.htm

This is a pretty sweet setup for a lowly
chain drive bike, I must admit.  :)

Horkster


--
Same old Hork, but new email:  horkster@XXXXXX

Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)

Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth

'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

From dc-cycles-request Sat Mar  2 03:32:26 2002
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 00:32:23 -0800 (PST)
From: matthew patton <pattonme@XXXXXX>
Subject: Review: Harbor Freight MC tire changer
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

Some months back there was a flurry of interest in the MC tire changer
from Harbor Freight. Some people bought the unit which turned out to be
only 1/2 of what you needed. Recently I had opportunity to acquire the
base unit (actually for car tires) for 1/2 price from HB, and got the
MC specific piece for $20 which was ten less than catalogue. So for the
cost of what one of those 'home grown' internet specials would have
cost me (excluding the DIY 2x4 projects), I got a very, very nice unit.

Breaking beads with the bead breaker is so trivial it's almost a
let-down. I used to struggle with the likes of big C-clamps or the
Dennis-Kirk 'jaw' thingy. What a waste that was!

Once placed on the tripod arms and the wheel firmly clamped in place,
one can do all sorts of work on the wheel at a comfortable height. Be
it rotor replacement, bearing removal and insertion or cleaning or
polishing the rim itself. That capability itself is worth the price of
admission, IMO. With the provided 3+ foot bar one can easily get the
bead over the top but that's where I ran into a snag. Maybe car tires
allow you to energetically pull on the bar to 'walk' it around the rim
to pry up the bead. I couldn't do it, the wheel kept spinning under me.
So I had to break out my trusty tire irons to help things along. If
they had provided some kind of fulcrum to rotate about, that would have
been perfect.

Getting beads on and off can require a bit of force and this is where
the only drawback rears it's head. The base is designed to be anchored
into a concrete floor with bolts, so the dinky feet aren't near long
enough to provide good stability when just placed as is.

Given the price ($65 total) this was a very good buy and if you change
tires a lot I would give it a hearty recommendation.

So, can anyone tell me how I can put bolts into a concrete floor after
the fact without doing a lot of obvious damage to the surface?

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com

From dc-cycles-request Sat Mar  2 10:34:54 2002
From: "Michael Jordan" <mjordan812@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: beginning the gun thread - Plus Helmets, Too!
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 10:20:45 -0500


> My client did not have any blaze orange
> on, as it is not required during muzzle loader season.

While not required, it does tend to support Darwin's theories.

Helmets aren't required in a lot of states - prudence dictates that they be
worn.

Should your client opt to wander about the woods in hunting season without
taking sensible precautions...

Michael J.



From dc-cycles-request Sat Mar  2 11:10:42 2002
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 11:08:54 -0500
From: "William J. Huson" <bhuson@XXXXXX>
To: matthew patton <pattonme@XXXXXX>
CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Review: Harbor Freight MC tire changer



matthew patton wrote:

> So, can anyone tell me how I can put bolts into a concrete floor after
> the fact without doing a lot of obvious damage to the surface?
>

Magic?  The method I use to anchor whatever to concrete is to drill a hole
with a carbide drill bit designed for concrete.  This requires sweat and
cussing or a big-ass drill, like a 1/2 inch motha.  The hole size is
determined by the lag bolt size which determines the hole diam required to
accept a lead anchor lag.  Pound lag anchors in hole, line up stand, bop
the lag bolts to get them started, and wrench away!  Any damge - i.e. holes
- can be easily patched if needed when you remove the stand.

Bill


From dc-cycles-request Sat Mar  2 15:24:26 2002
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 15:22:39 -0500
From: "William J. Huson" <bhuson@XXXXXX>
To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: FREE!

>From the dusty depths of my garage emerged a box containing gas welding
stuff.  Looks like hoses, maybe two heads and two gauge sets with some
sort of valving gizmos.  No tanks.  Oh yeah, a pocket set of "tip
cleaners" that appears to have a variety of tiny round files therein.
I'm a  sparky welder, have no use for this stuff, and no clue how usable
it is, but it's FREE to the first person who hauls it away!

Location Annandale VA close to Backlick & Braddock, 1 mile inside the
beltway Braddock Rd exit.  Call for exact directions...

ho (703) 256-3115

Bill


From dc-cycles-request Sat Mar  2 18:36:02 2002
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 18:34:26 -0500
From: Chuck and Karen Pena <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
CC: horkster@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: FJR1300 Comes to the USA

For my money, the UK and Euro journos write a hell of a lot better than
their American counterparts.  More willing to be critical.  More
colorful language.  Political correctness pretty much thrown out the
window.  And their mags aren't afraid to sex and motorcycles, which is
as it should be!  And if you don't get "dog's bollocks" Dale, then you
just don't get it -- but then again, you LIKE shaft drive! %^)

Chuck
FZR600 track bike w/lights currently in streetfighter guise, license
plate DGZBLX

horkster@XXXXXX writes:

 > Yeah, but you've then gotta translate what those twits in
 > Europe are actually saying.  "It's the dog's bollocks!"  WTF?   [:)]




From dc-cycles-request Sun Mar  3 07:35:24 2002
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 07:33:37 -0500
From: "William J. Huson" <bhuson@XXXXXX>
To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: more FREE stuff!

One pair of 13" galvanized trailer wheels, spoker design, 5 bolt
pattern.  Tires included.

Bill again - trying to find the floor of my garage :-)

Still in Annandale, call (703) 256-3115


From dc-cycles-request Sun Mar  3 13:51:17 2002
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 10:51:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: more FREE stuff!
To: "William J. Huson" <bhuson@XXXXXX>,
   "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Bill:

Can you take the welding equipment, these wheels and
make me a moto trailer?  Thanks buddy!

Mark


--- "William J. Huson" <bhuson@XXXXXX> wrote:
> One pair of 13" galvanized trailer wheels, spoker
> design, 5 bolt
> pattern.  Tires included.
>
> Bill again - trying to find the floor of my garage
> :-)
>
> Still in Annandale, call (703) 256-3115
>


=====


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com

From dc-cycles-request Sun Mar  3 15:13:05 2002
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 15:11:18 -0500
From: "William J. Huson" <bhuson@XXXXXX>
To: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
CC: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: more FREE stuff!

HA!  I do sparky welding, not gas, but my Lincoln welder is ready to zap
metal.  Sometime this spring/summer I'm going to build a bike(s)
hauler.  Soon as the steel fairy drops a load of tube stock in my yard.

Bill

Mark Kitchell wrote:

> Bill:
>
> Can you take the welding equipment, these wheels and
> make me a moto trailer?  Thanks buddy!
>
> Mark
>
> --- "William J. Huson" <bhuson@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > One pair of 13" galvanized trailer wheels, spoker
> > design, 5 bolt
> > pattern.  Tires included.
> >
> > Bill again - trying to find the floor of my garage
> > :-)
> >
> > Still in Annandale, call (703) 256-3115
> >
>
> =====
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
> http://sports.yahoo.com


From dc-cycles-request Sun Mar  3 18:21:18 2002
From: "Laura Granato" <lgranato@XXXXXX>
To: "Tight Squeeze Racing" <tightsqueezeracing@XXXXXX>,
   <speedwerks@XXXXXX>, "Sam Heim" <sam8165@XXXXXX>,
   <R0bwats0n@XXXXXX>, <Puppycub@XXXXXX>, "Mark S. Simone" <tish@XXXXXX>,
   "James Gaal" <jamesgaal@XXXXXX>,
   "Donnie Tingle" <dtiiifan@XXXXXX>, "David Salvaggio" <dls@XXXXXX>,
   <CyclePros1@XXXXXX>, "audrey gia" <Tantryk@XXXXXX>,
   "Brian McCoy" <mcycleracr@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: My GS
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 18:30:57 -0500

Thanks to Wayne for putting the picture of my GS up in his site.  Check her
out and if you know anyone who is interested and wants to find out more, let
me know.  Thanks!

http://www.blueblackbusa.org/laura_gs.jpg

Laura
http://laura.dcc-racing.org


From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar  4 01:23:19 2002
Subject: Mark Walker is Out of the Office
From: Mwalker3@XXXXXX
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 01:03:08 -0500
X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on WBLN0014/Facility/World Bank(Release 5.0.5 |September
 22, 2000) at 03/04/2002 01:06:11 AM

I will be out of the office starting  03/01/2002 and will not return until
03/06/2002.

I will be reading my e-mail and will reply to your message as soon as possible.

Thank you.


From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar  4 08:48:02 2002
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 05:48:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Brian Marhefsky <bmarhefsky@XXXXXX>
Subject: Painter Recommendation
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

Just picked up a rear hugger for my Tiger and I'd
like to get it painted to match the rest of the
bodywork.  Any recommendations on a painter?

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com

From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar  4 09:09:42 2002
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 08:07:02 -0600
From: "George Cole" <George.Cole@XXXXXX>
To: <rgorman17@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: For Sale 92 Zephyr 750


1992 Kawasaki Zephyr 750 $ 2000.00

appx 25K mileage

See photos at http://photos.yahoo.com/gfacter Zephyr folder

I bought this bike as a Winter resto project. Its mostly completed.

I replaced the Battery, gas tank, completely rebuilt carbs (new jets, needles, gaskets etc) oil/filter, spark plugs and wires, and many other bits and prices. New tires. shop manual.

The bike runs excellent, is easy to ride and has a very low seat height.

Please contact me for more details.

Regards,

George Cole
301-523-4161





From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar  4 09:27:55 2002
Subject: RE: Painter Recommendation
From: "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:27:48 -0500
To: "bmarhefsky@XXXXXX" <bmarhefsky@XXXXXX>,
   "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Noah at Better Off Bodyworks.  Down in the Triangle/Dumfires, VA area.  Don't have his phone number handy.  But he does all the paint and body repair work for Crossroads Cycles.  Call them (703) 820-3711 and I'm sure they can tell you his phone number.

Noah painted my GSXR before my deerhunter accident
http://www.geocities.com/the_penas/chux_gsxr.htm

Chuck

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Brian Marhefsky bmarhefsky@XXXXXX
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 05:48:00 -0800 (PST)
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Painter Recommendation


Just picked up a rear hugger for my Tiger and I'd
like to get it painted to match the rest of the
bodywork.  Any recommendations on a painter?

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar  4 10:11:55 2002
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 10:12:37 -0500
From: Shawn Brand <shawn.brand@XXXXXX>
Subject: Lockhart-Phillips flush mount marker lights
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

Has anyone had luck with LP marker lights? I believe that I connected the
wiring correctly and the damn lenses melt. This is my second pair. Also, the
lights blink more rapidly than when the stock lights were mounted. Is LP
notorious for marketing junk?


From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar  4 10:29:46 2002
Date: Mon Mar 04 10:28:41 2002
From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: DC VFR head count
To: <piffiffi@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Don't own a vfr but, i live in downtown dc.

From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar  4 10:33:41 2002
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 10:30:20 -0500
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: DC VFR head count

At , ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote:
>Don't own a vfr but, i live in downtown dc.

Own a VFR, but don't live downtown.  Work down there every once in a while.



___________________________________________
     Mike Troutman
          http://www.troutman.org/vfr

         1997 Honda VFR 750
         AMA ~=~ NMA ~=~ NRA



From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar  4 11:01:45 2002
From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
To: <ScooterFZR@XXXXXX>, <piffiffi@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: DC VFR head count
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:56:36 -0500

Whoever it was, it wasn't me.  Mine's red.  "Winterman," a sometime poster
to DCC, lives in DC and has a yeller VFR.

Paul in DC (near downtown)
95 VFR750F - 86 VF500F
----- Original Message -----
From: <ScooterFZR@XXXXXX>

> Don't own a vfr but, i live in downtown dc.
>


From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar  4 11:39:50 2002
Date: 4 Mar 2002 08:39:44 -0800
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: LAURA GRANATO <lgranato@XXXXXX>
Subject: Daytona Congrats

Just wanted to tell everyone to congratulate Keener and Roach for kicking some butt down in Daytona.  I know Roach took third in an endurance race and Keener won at least one of his class races.  Way to go boys!

Laura (<--counting the days until racing season starts for me)
http://laura.dcc-racing.org


________________________________________________
PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart.
http://www.peoplepc.com

From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar  4 11:59:22 2002
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:59:21 -0800 (PST)
From: stephen cutchins <stephen_cutchins@XXXXXX>
Subject: Can someone tape the races for me?
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Well, after 7 Bike Weeks in a row, I finally have to
miss one.  Cox Cable only broadcasts Speed Channel for
8 hours a day, so there is way too much racing that I
will miss.  Can anyone out there with a satellite tape
the races for me?  I would be forever indebted!

Fri
2-3 750SS
4-5 600SS

Sat
1-5 Supercross

Sun
8-10 WSBK
1030-1130 AMA 250GP
1230-330 Daytona 200

In fact, if someone does tape the races, I might be
able to put together a group TV night to watch the
200.  I think my apartment complex has a room with a
big screen that residents can use.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com

From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar  4 12:23:40 2002
From: "LindaT." <ljtanner@XXXXXX>
To: "DC-CYCLES" <DC-CYCLES@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Lockhart-Phillips flush mount marker lights
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:17:16 -0500

I have the flush mounts on my CBR and yes, they do market junk.  I had to
wrap the innards with electrical tape to keep it from shorting out.  That's
what the fast blink is telling you.  Take the things completely apart.  Make
sure all the connections are good and wrap the wires in tape.  I seem to
recall that the wire colors were not consistent.  Make sure the positive is
really the positive wire, etc.  Worked for me (after a while).

Good luck.
LindaT.
Custom TankBags
Springfield, VA (suburb of our nation's capital)
AMA IBA HSTA BMWBMW
99 R1100RT Mr. Buzzy
95 F3 Purple Haze (69K miles and counting...)
00 KLR250 Super Sherpa Tenzing
http://www.geocities.com/ljtanner

Shawn Brand asked:

Has anyone had luck with LP marker lights? I believe that I connected the
wiring correctly and the damn lenses melt. This is my second pair. Also, the
lights blink more rapidly than when the stock lights were mounted. Is LP
notorious for marketing junk?


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar  4 12:26:45 2002
From: "Carlos Ambrosini" <cdvip11@XXXXXX>
To: shawn.brand@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Lockhart-Phillips flush mount marker lights
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 12:15:04 -0500

did you get the double filament ones  or just the single?


>From: Shawn Brand <shawn.brand@XXXXXX>
>Reply-To: shawn.brand@XXXXXX
>To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
>Subject: Lockhart-Phillips flush mount marker lights
>Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 10:12:37 -0500
>
>Has anyone had luck with LP marker lights? I believe that I connected the
>wiring correctly and the damn lenses melt. This is my second pair. Also,
>the
>lights blink more rapidly than when the stock lights were mounted. Is LP
>notorious for marketing junk?
>


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar  4 12:47:18 2002
Subject: RE: Lockhart-Phillips flush mount marker lights
From: "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:50:10 -0500
To: "shawn.brand@XXXXXX" <shawn.brand@XXXXXX>,
   "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Shawn,

I've also found that the LP flush mounts seem to run "hot."  But I haven't had any lenses melt ... yet.  I'm not an elecrical wizard, but it probably has to do with them drawing more amps or whatever than stock turn signals.  Could probably be fixed with a resistor or something.  I'm sure someone ont he list could explain and provide a (hopefully easy) solution
As to them flashing too fast.  Are you running LP marker lights all around?  Or a set of stock signals (or a different set of marker lights) in front/back?  I'm going to guess that you're running different wattage bulbs.  All the bulbs need to be the exact same wattage, otherwise they'll blink at a faster rate.  This might also happen if you're only running lights/blinkers in one location.

And are you running 2-wire (blnkers only) or 3-wire (running lights/blinkers)?  If you don't need the running light function, just run a 2-wire set-up as blinkers only.  This may (or may not) help with the lights running too hot.

Let me know how you do with this problem as I'd defintely be interested in knowing what solution(s) you come up with.

Chuck

P.S.  Have you talked with the folks at LP at all???

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Shawn Brand shawn.brand@XXXXXX
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 10:12:37 -0500
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Lockhart-Phillips flush mount marker lights


Has anyone had luck with LP marker lights? I believe that I connected the
wiring correctly and the damn lenses melt. This is my second pair. Also, the
lights blink more rapidly than when the stock lights were mounted. Is LP
notorious for marketing junk?

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar  4 15:41:06 2002
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:41:04 -0800 (PST)
From: matthew patton <pattonme@XXXXXX>
Subject: angled valve stems
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

I thought dennis kirk used to carry a fairly wide variety of valve
stems but their recent catalogue has only 1 type now. do the screw
together variety work fine? Is there a decent source of these things?

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com

From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar  4 18:45:16 2002
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 15:45:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Dysart <glenn_dysart@XXXXXX>
Subject: Braking
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

I'm forwarding this on from a friend of mine.  Thought
it was interesting.

Glenn


A few months ago there was an interesting discussion
on the YZF list about rear braking. Some guys were
quoting their MSF instructors (60/40 power
split, rear is very important), and I differed in
opinion, stating that those instructions apply more to
average riders/bikes, not our short-wheelbase
sportbikes, etc. This racing instructor offered his
opinion below. Interesting:


"Someone mentioned that 60% of your braking is applied
with the front brakes - that's completely wrong - over
90% of the braking is applied with the front brakes.
I've taken both the MSF and Code schools and am
currently have an expert race license and am
instructor at the Keith Code Calif Superbike School.

"Most people do not use the front brakes to their
fullest. One of the drills we do at the school during
the 2 day camp is locking up the front brakes,
getting the feel of what that shutter feels like, then
letting off. During hard braking, the rear of my bike
is off the ground or very, very light, so
rear braking at that point is of no use. Most racers
understand that more than 90% of your braking is done
by the front and stay off the rear unless
they run off the track. I can trail-brake the front
end most of the way into a corner - knee on the
ground, but if you touch the rear leaned over, its
bye-bye rear end.

"The point is get proficient at using the front brakes
to their maximum potential - the rear brake will get
you into trouble more times than not, and here's
another tip - the throttle will get you out of trouble
with 99% of the problems you get into."

Terry Embury
Hi-Side Racing - The Racer's Source

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com

From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar  4 20:32:13 2002
Date: Mon,  4 Mar 2002 20:26:50 -0500
From: "Scott Luttrell" <scott@XXXXXX>
To: <nappyknot@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>,
   <xpelletier@XXXXXX>, <qshilling@XXXXXX>
CC: <lordorange@XXXXXX>, <cycleboy51@XXXXXX>, <sktcasey@XXXXXX>

Having a Bad Day? Read this-----
A man was working on his motorcycle on the patio, his wife nearby in the kitchen. While racing the engine, the motorcycle accidentally slipped into gear. The man, still holding onto the handlebars, was dragged along as it burst through the glass patio doors. His wife, hearing the crash, ran in the room to find her husband (cut and bleeding), the motorcycle, and the shattered patio door. She called for an ambulance and, because the house sat on a fairly large hill, went down the several flights of stairs to meet the paramedics and escort them to her husband. While the attendants were loading her husband, the wife
managed to right the motorcycle and push it outside. She also quickly blotted up the spilled gasoline with some paper towels and tossed them into the toilet. After being treated and released, the man returned home, looked at the shattered patio door and the damage done to his motorcycle. He went into the bathroom and consoled himself with a cigarette while attending to his business. About to stand, he flipped the butt between his legs. The wife, who was in the kitchen, heard a loud explosion and her husband screaming. Finding him lying on the bathroom floor with his trousers blown away and burns on his buttocks, legs and groin, she once again phoned for an ambulance.  The same paramedic crew was dispatched. As the paramedics carried the man down the stairs to the ambulance they asked the wife how he had come to burn himself. She told
them. They started laughing so hard, one slipped, tipping the stretcher and dumping the husband out. He fell down the remaining stairs, breaking his arm.

Still having a bad day? Just remember, it could be worse...

The average cost of rehabilitating a seal after the Exxon
Valdez oil spill in Alaska was $80,000. At a special ceremony, two of the most expensively saved animals were being released back into the wild amid cheers and applause from onlookers. A minute later, in full view, a killer whale ate them both.

A woman came home to find her husband in the kitchen shaking
frantically, with some kind of wire running from his waist towards the electric kettle. Intending to jolt him away from the deadly current, she whacked him with a handy plank of wood, breaking his arm in two places. Until that moment, he had been happily listening to his Walkman.

STILL think you're having a bad day?

Two animal rights protesters were protesting at the cruelty
of sending pigs to a slaughterhouse in Bonn, Germany.  Suddenly, all two thousand pigs broke loose and escaped through a broken fence, stampeding madly. The two hapless protesters were trampled to death.


Iraqi terrorist Khay Rahnajet didn't pay enough postage on a
letter bomb. It came back with "return to sender" stamped on it.
Forgetting it was the bomb, he opened it and was blown to bits.

There now, feeling better?

The gene pool could use a little chlorine

Scott Luttrell
Fast & Wily Racing
www.fastandwily.com




________________________________________________________________
Sent via the WebMail system at fastandwily.com





From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar  4 20:57:35 2002
From: "Todd Peer" <toddbpeer@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: dc-cycles digest for 03/03/02
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:54:38 -0500


----- Original Message -----
From: "The dc-cycles list administrator" <dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 7:01 PM
Subject: dc-cycles digest for 03/03/02


> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
>
>  __  /-----\  __   'dc-cycles' is an unmoderated email discussion list
> (__\/ _____ \/__)  about motorcycling in the Washington D.C. area.
>   =(  \___/  )=
>     \  ___  /      An archive of the dc-cycles list is available at:
>     | / _ \ |         http://www.dc-cycles.org/
>     \ || || /
>      \|| ||/       Subscribe/unsubscribe requests should be sent to:
>       \| |/           dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX
>        |_|
>
>  -------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
>
> Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 07:33:37 -0500
> From: "William J. Huson" <bhuson@XXXXXX>
> To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
> Subject: more FREE stuff!
>
> One pair of 13" galvanized trailer wheels, spoker design, 5 bolt
> pattern.  Tires included.
>
> Bill again - trying to find the floor of my garage :-)
>
> Still in Annandale, call (703) 256-3115
>
>
>           _                  _                  _                  _
>      .-.-.=\-.          .-.-.=\-.          .-.-.=\-.          .-.-.=\-.
>      (_)=='(_)          (_)=='(_)          (_)=='(_)          (_)=='(_)
>
> Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 10:51:14 -0800 (PST)
> From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
> Subject: Re: more FREE stuff!
> To: "William J. Huson" <bhuson@XXXXXX>,
>    "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
>
> Bill:
>
> Can you take the welding equipment, these wheels and
> make me a moto trailer?  Thanks buddy!
>
> Mark
>
>
> --- "William J. Huson" <bhuson@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > One pair of 13" galvanized trailer wheels, spoker
> > design, 5 bolt
> > pattern.  Tires included.
> >
> > Bill again - trying to find the floor of my garage
> > :-)
> >
> > Still in Annandale, call (703) 256-3115
> >
>
>
> =====
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
> http://sports.yahoo.com
>
>           _                  _                  _                  _
>      .-.-.=\-.          .-.-.=\-.          .-.-.=\-.          .-.-.=\-.
>      (_)=='(_)          (_)=='(_)          (_)=='(_)          (_)=='(_)
>
> Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 15:11:18 -0500
> From: "William J. Huson" <bhuson@XXXXXX>
> To: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
> CC: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
> Subject: Re: more FREE stuff!
>
> HA!  I do sparky welding, not gas, but my Lincoln welder is ready to zap
> metal.  Sometime this spring/summer I'm going to build a bike(s)
> hauler.  Soon as the steel fairy drops a load of tube stock in my yard.
>
> Bill
>
> Mark Kitchell wrote:
>
> > Bill:
> >
> > Can you take the welding equipment, these wheels and
> > make me a moto trailer?  Thanks buddy!
> >
> > Mark
> >
> > --- "William J. Huson" <bhuson@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > > One pair of 13" galvanized trailer wheels, spoker
> > > design, 5 bolt
> > > pattern.  Tires included.
> > >
> > > Bill again - trying to find the floor of my garage
> > > :-)
> > >
> > > Still in Annandale, call (703) 256-3115
> > >
> >
> > =====
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
> > http://sports.yahoo.com
>
>
>           _                  _                  _                  _
>      .-.-.=\-.          .-.-.=\-.          .-.-.=\-.          .-.-.=\-.
>      (_)=='(_)          (_)=='(_)          (_)=='(_)          (_)=='(_)
>
> X-Sent: 3 Mar 2002 23:21:09 GMT
> From: "Laura Granato" <lgranato@XXXXXX>
> To: "Tight Squeeze Racing" <tightsqueezeracing@XXXXXX>,
>    <speedwerks@XXXXXX>, "Sam Heim" <sam8165@XXXXXX>,
>    <R0bwats0n@XXXXXX>, <Puppycub@XXXXXX>, "Mark S. Simone"
<tish@XXXXXX>,
>    "James Gaal" <jamesgaal@XXXXXX>,
>    "Donnie Tingle" <dtiiifan@XXXXXX>, "David Salvaggio"
<dls@XXXXXX>,
>    <CyclePros1@XXXXXX>, "audrey gia" <Tantryk@XXXXXX>,
>    "Brian McCoy" <mcycleracr@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
> Subject: My GS
> Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 18:30:57 -0500
> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
>
> Thanks to Wayne for putting the picture of my GS up in his site.  Check
her
> out and if you know anyone who is interested and wants to find out more,
let
> me know.  Thanks!
>
> http://www.blueblackbusa.org/laura_gs.jpg
>
> Laura
> http://laura.dcc-racing.org
>
>
>


From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar  4 21:00:58 2002
From: "Dave Yates" <sdave@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Braking
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:01:11 -0500

Glenn rubbed 2 sticks together...


A few months ago there was an interesting discussion
on the YZF list about rear braking. Some guys were
quoting their MSF instructors (60/40 power
split, rear is very important), and I differed in
opinion, stating that those instructions apply more to
average riders/bikes, not our short-wheelbase
sportbikes, etc. This racing instructor offered his
opinion below. Interesting:


	<DJY>  Oh boy... here we go...  I'll bet if Harry let's the AOPA guy
back on, we'll be flooded with 'content rejected' messages, some of them
not even set off by Gimer ;-)



"Someone mentioned that 60% of your braking is applied
with the front brakes - that's completely wrong - over
90% of the braking is applied with the front brakes.


	<DJY>  On what bike ?  what's the weight threshold & bias for this
statement to be true ?

...

"Most people do not use the front brakes to their
fullest.


	<DJY>  <yawn>  we know, now move on to something new...


One of the drills we do at the school during
the 2 day camp is locking up the front brakes,
getting the feel of what that shutter feels like, then
letting off. During hard braking, the rear of my bike
is off the ground or very, very light, so
rear braking at that point is of no use.


	<DJY>  BTDTGTTS.


 Most racers
understand that more than 90% of your braking is done
by the front ...blah, blah, blah..

the rear brake will get you into trouble more times than not,
...
the throttle will get you out of trouble with 99% of the
problems you get into."


	<DJY> hmm... The nice deputy's eyes glassed over when I tried to
explain this to him on the side of the road.  I realized he wasn't
buying it and said... 'never mind.  I've got a clean record, would you
write me a warning?'  He did.



Terry Embury
Hi-Side Racing - The Racer's Source


	<DJY>  Not sure I like the idea of taking riding advice from someone
materially involved in 'Hi Side racing'... ;-)



Dave Yates
'90 ZX11 'Acceleratus Maximus'
LTT customized M96G EII 'Little Friend'
http://www.radix.net/~sdave/


From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar  4 21:05:24 2002
From: "Todd Peer" <toddbpeer@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Braking.
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:02:29 -0500

---Glenn Dysart Wrote---
I'm forwarding this on from a friend of mine.  Thought
it was interesting.

Glenn

<snip>

"The point is get proficient at using the front brakes
to their maximum potential - the rear brake will get
you into trouble more times than not, and here's
another tip - the throttle will get you out of trouble
with 99% of the problems you get into."
-----------------------------------------------------------------

At the risk of setting things on fire.....a lot of good this will do you
linked and ABS brake types.

I personally don't do much racing on the street nor do any of my bikes have
an ABS or are linked so, I will continue to use my rear brakes. ;-)

Todd (Springfield, VA)


From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar  4 22:31:49 2002
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 22:29:52 -0500
From: "William J. Huson" <bhuson@XXXXXX>
To: Glenn Dysart <glenn_dysart@XXXXXX>
CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Braking

Glenn offers us the opinion of an apparently professional race bike
ridewr RE front/rear brake power distribution.  Hooey.  Bull-pucky.
Let us suppose the perfect braking distance from say 60 could be
established for any given bike.  We'll call that 100% efficient.  I'll
venture a guess that very few of the folks on this list could exceed 80%
of perfection even using both brakes and tossing out a drag anchor.
This is called real life situation.

I've heard a variety of percentage ratios bandied about in and out of
MSF classes.  The purpose of stating a F/R ratio is to introduce a
novice to the fact that wieght transfer puts more of the action on the
front.  Back in 1960 my driver's ed class taught me that, not exactly a
new idea. The actual ratio isn't that important, save for testy
discussion purposes.  Use both brakes, test the limits, avoid situations
that will test your limits.

Bill


Glenn Dysart wrote:

> I'm forwarding this on from a friend of mine.  Thought
> it was interesting.
>
> Glenn
>
> A few months ago there was an interesting discussion
> on the YZF list about rear braking. Some guys were
> quoting their MSF instructors (60/40 power
> split, rear is very important), and I differed in
> opinion, stating that those instructions apply more to
> average riders/bikes, not our short-wheelbase
> sportbikes, etc. This racing instructor offered his
> opinion below. Interesting:
>
> "Someone mentioned that 60% of your braking is applied
> with the front brakes - that's completely wrong - over
> 90% of the braking is applied with the front brakes.
> I've taken both the MSF and Code schools and am
> currently have an expert race license and am
> instructor at the Keith Code Calif Superbike School.
>
> "Most people do not use the front brakes to their
> fullest. One of the drills we do at the school during
> the 2 day camp is locking up the front brakes,
> getting the feel of what that shutter feels like, then
> letting off. During hard braking, the rear of my bike
> is off the ground or very, very light, so
> rear braking at that point is of no use. Most racers
> understand that more than 90% of your braking is done
> by the front and stay off the rear unless
> they run off the track. I can trail-brake the front
> end most of the way into a corner - knee on the
> ground, but if you touch the rear leaned over, its
> bye-bye rear end.
>
> "The point is get proficient at using the front brakes
> to their maximum potential - the rear brake will get
> you into trouble more times than not, and here's
> another tip - the throttle will get you out of trouble
> with 99% of the problems you get into."
>
> Terry Embury
> Hi-Side Racing - The Racer's Source
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
> http://sports.yahoo.com


From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar  4 22:51:53 2002
From: "Dave Yates" <sdave@XXXXXX>
Cc: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Braking
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 22:51:56 -0500

Bill contributes -

...  Hooey.  Bull-pucky.


	<DJY>  just what we would expect ;-)


Let us suppose the perfect braking distance from say 60 could be
established for any given bike.  We'll call that 100% efficient.  I'll
venture a guess that very few of the folks on this list could exceed 80%
of perfection even using both brakes and tossing out a drag anchor.
This is called real life situation.


	<DJY> WHAT?!  Knee dragging can occur in real life... while using 90%
front brake and no rear because it's off the ground...
		It could happen ...  :-)



...The actual ratio isn't that important, save for testy
discussion purposes.  Use both brakes, test the limits, avoid situations
that will test your limits.

	<DJY>  Sure, be the voice of reason, Bill.  I was hoping for some real
entertainment with the 'hooey & bull-pucky' opening...  Only to be heart
broken as you douse the flames of our budding brake thread with water.

maybe somebody will come along and save it...



Dave Yates
'90 ZX11 'Acceleratus Maximus'
LTT customized M96G EII 'Little Friend'
http://www.radix.net/~sdave/


From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar  5 01:23:57 2002
From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: LAURA GRANATO <lgranato@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: speaking of back injuries and protectors
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 01:26:27 -0500


The usual 'street' back protectors seem to be shaped along the lines
of a persons back.. the ones I've seen on some racers,  have a
different look. Instead of being shaped like someones back, they seem
to take an outward curve...   as if you had a utility pole made of
foam, cut it down to back size, cut it in half so that it's half
round, and placed the flat part on your back.   It kind of looks like
it is ample back protection.  I don't know if it's used in the US or
in other countries, all i know is i've seen it on tv.

anyone know anything about them?

|>how do you mean larger?  Mind goes from the top of my shoulders all the way to my tailbone...what is the "usual"?


From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar  5 01:28:47 2002
From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: "William J. Huson" <bhuson@XXXXXX>
Cc: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: FREE!
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 01:31:17 -0500

If no one takes you up on the offer you might want to put it on ebay.

If i recall correctly that stuff sells for about $100 there.



From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar  5 01:50:09 2002
From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: "William J. Huson" <bhuson@XXXXXX>
Cc: Glenn Dysart <glenn_dysart@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Braking  (sportbikes)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 01:52:39 -0500

|>new idea. The actual ratio isn't that important, save for testy
|>discussion purposes.  Use both brakes, test the limits, avoid situations
|>that will test your limits.

It's my opinion that use of the back brake under emergency braking
will cause the bike to sway and wobble and be unsettled,  (and of
course possibly low side)

where-as front brake can take over 100% of the braking force (by
removing any rear wheel capability), and the bike can stay straight
and even. A quick release of the front brake and one is than in a
bettter position to switch to a steering away strategy. (which is
actually preferable in the first place IMO)

Of course there are vices and virtues to any braking style...
I tend to use front brakes mostly, and use rear brakes for some low
speed stuff, and questionable traction stuff. (rain, wetness, grass,
gravel, city stop lights when i'm not doing endos) :)

What's my recomendation to any new sport bike rider? on the highway
use the front brakes. On the curves don't use brakes. And use the rear
brake in afore mentioned times.

Of course even if your'e perfect  with brakes doesnt mean you can
avoid accidents. It's nice to slow down your velocity though when
you're about to be ejected off your vehicle and travel in an
uncontrolled manner. Less traveling distance, less impact, less chance
for impact.

I actually would like to have a range to practice achieving the
perfect braking distance.. that would be fun.

Danny
01 gsxr 750
00 zx6r

From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar  5 07:42:28 2002
From: Gaske David G DLVA <GaskeDG@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: angled valve stems
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 07:42:23 -0500

The new Triumphs come with them, try one of there dealers and see what they
have.  They are 90' bends, very handy for getting around the brake discs.

David Gaske
2000 Triumph Sprint RS  <-- in the faster yellow


-----Original Message-----
From: matthew patton [mailto:pattonme@XXXXXX]
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 3:41 PM
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: angled valve stems


I thought dennis kirk used to carry a fairly wide variety of valve
stems but their recent catalogue has only 1 type now. do the screw
together variety work fine? Is there a decent source of these things?

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com

From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar  5 08:55:05 2002
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 08:53:17 -0500
From: "William J. Huson" <bhuson@XXXXXX>
To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Oh boy!  New toy!

A bit pricey, but this rig looks kinda cool!

http://www.carver.nl/home.htm


From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar  5 09:02:33 2002
From: "Thomas Zell" <zellto@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Shameless puppy advertisement. ;-)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 09:03:35 -0500

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C1C424.A24A9C70

Hi everyone!



Coming out of continual lurk mode.



For those of you that remember we had a litter of pups back in 2000.
Well they're back again!  Hera and Red Stripe are the proud parents of
ten bouncing baby pit bull puppies!  Our house is once again filled with
the happy little cries of nursing little pups.



The puppies will be available for sale at the end of the first week of
May.  They will not be available to folks living in Prince George's
County as they are (needlessly) considered illegal there.  Price will be
$500 a pup which will get you a game-bred ADBA registered little bundle
of joy.  Our dogs are wonderful and are true American Pit Bull Terriers.
not the backyard-bred crap that you read about in the news.  They are
also small dogs weighing generally less than 50 pounds.  They are
excellent companion dogs.



Jeannette and I can be contacted at (703) 931-9143.



Thanks!

Tom

'86 VFR750








------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C1C424.A24A9C70

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<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Hi everyone!</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Coming out of continual lurk =
mode&#8230;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>For those of you that remember we had a litter of =
pups back
in 2000.&nbsp; Well they&#8217;re back again!&nbsp; Hera and Red Stripe =
are the
proud parents of ten bouncing baby pit bull puppies!&nbsp; Our house is =
once
again filled with the happy little cries of nursing little pups.&nbsp; =
</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>The puppies will be available for sale at the end of =
the
first week of May.&nbsp; They will not be available to folks living in =
</span></font><font
  size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Prince
  George</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&#8217;s County as they are (needlessly) considered =
illegal
there.&nbsp; Price will be $500 a pup which will get you a game-bred =
ADBA
registered little bundle of joy.&nbsp; Our dogs are wonderful and are =
true
American Pit Bull Terriers&#8230; not the backyard-bred crap that you =
read
about in the news.&nbsp; They are also small dogs weighing generally =
less than
50 pounds.&nbsp; They are excellent companion dogs.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Jeannette and I can be contacted at (703) =
931-9143.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Thanks!</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Tom</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&#8217;86 VFR750</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

</div>

</body>

</html>

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C1C424.A24A9C70--


From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar  5 09:03:22 2002
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 09:03:15 -0500
From: <sdave@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Cc:
Subject: re: Oh boy! New toy!

Bill tipped us off -

A bit pricey, but this rig looks kinda cool!
http://www.carver.nl/home.htm


  <DJY>  Needs about 140 more horsepower...  ;-)

Dave




--
Pop3Now Personal, Get quick remote access to your email accounts!
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From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar  5 09:06:48 2002
From: SKeener2@XXXXXX
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 09:06:02 EST
Subject: Re: Daytona Congrats
To: lgranato@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX


--part1_76.185dcccd.29b62aca_boundary


>
> Just wanted to tell everyone to congratulate Keener and Roach for kicking
> some butt down in Daytona.  I know Roach took third in an endurance race
> and Keener won at least one of his class races.  Way to go boys!
>

I won GT Lights & Lightweight Superbike.  :-)  Thanks!

Steve

--part1_76.185dcccd.29b62aca_boundary

<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><BR>
Just wanted to tell everyone to congratulate Keener and Roach for kicking some butt down in Daytona.&nbsp; I know Roach took third in an endurance race and Keener won at least one of his class races.&nbsp; Way to go boys!<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
I won GT Lights &amp; Lightweight Superbike.&nbsp; :-)&nbsp; Thanks!<BR>
<BR>
Steve</FONT></HTML>

--part1_76.185dcccd.29b62aca_boundary--

From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar  5 09:14:56 2002
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 09:14:41 -0500
Subject: Re:
From: Sean Jordan <eternity23@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX


On Monday, March 4, 2002, at 08:26 , Scott Luttrell wrote:

> Having a Bad Day? Read this-----
>
<snip> Blah, blah, blah </snip>
>
> There now, feeling better?

Urban/Internet legends, every one...... amusing stories, though.



Sean Jordan
Jordan Racing / DC-Cycles Racing


From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar  5 09:19:44 2002
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 09:19:38 -0500
From: <sdave@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Cc:
Subject: Re: Braking (sportbikes)

Danny opined -

It's my opinion that use of the back brake under emergency braking
will cause the bike to sway and wobble and be unsettled,  (and of
course possibly low side)


   <DJY>  How so ?


where-as front brake can take over 100% of the braking force (by
removing any rear wheel capability), and the bike can stay straight
and even.


   <DJY>  If your front wheel takes 'over 100% of the braking force'
that would be a front wheel skid.


 A quick release of the front brake and one is than in a
bettter position to switch to a steering away strategy. (which is
actually preferable in the first place IMO)

Of course there are vices and virtues to any braking style...
I tend to use front brakes mostly, and use rear brakes for some low
speed stuff, and questionable traction stuff. (rain, wetness, grass,
gravel, city stop lights when i'm not doing endos) :)


  <DJY>  What about stoppies ? ;-)

...
I actually would like to have a range to practice achieving the
perfect braking distance.. that would be fun.

  <DJY> Use an infrequently travelled road, or a store parking lot
before anyone gets there...

Dave






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From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar  5 09:29:32 2002
From: SKeener2@XXXXXX
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 09:29:09 EST
Subject: Re: Braking (sportbikes)
To: sdave@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX


--part1_27.23c04046.29b63035_boundary

In a message dated 3/5/02 9:21:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, sdave@XXXXXX
writes:

> where-as front brake can take over 100% of the braking force (by
> removing any rear wheel capability), and the bike can stay straight
> and even.

Uh...only if your suspension is is set up nicely.  Otherwise you can have the
front end wiggling around under you.  Most street rider do NOT have the front
suspension set up well.   The technique of braking and letting off and making
a course correction then braking again.  The MSF course teaches it.

Keener

--part1_27.23c04046.29b63035_boundary

<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 3/5/02 9:21:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, sdave@XXXXXX writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">where-as front brake can take over 100% of the braking force (by<BR>
removing any rear wheel capability), and the bike can stay straight<BR>
and even.</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Uh...only if your suspension is is set up nicely.&nbsp; Otherwise you can have the front end wiggling around under you.&nbsp; Most street rider do NOT have the front suspension set up well.&nbsp;&nbsp; The technique of braking and letting off and making a course correction then braking again.&nbsp; The MSF course teaches it.<BR>
<BR>
Keener</FONT></HTML>

--part1_27.23c04046.29b63035_boundary--

From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar  5 09:42:06 2002
From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 09:41:46 EST
Subject: Re: Braking  (sportbikes)
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

While riding down the street the motorcycles weight is distributed about
50/50 (It varies bike to bike, and situation to situation. (Acceleration can
result in 0% front and 100% rear.) but 50/50 is close enough for discussion.)
That means that the braking available is 50/50 _at the moment braking starts_
If you go for 100% braking at that moment you will lock the front wheel. A
BAD THING! Yes you can get 100% at the front wheel but only AFTER 100% of the
bikes weight transfers to the front wheel.
The practical offshoot of that _fact_ is Apply BOTH brakes and INCREASE
pressure on the front brake while DECREASING pressure on the rear as the
weight transfers.
And that ladies and gentlemen is how MSF tells us to gain maximum braking.
And it aint easy.
The only way to gain enough skill at using your brakes properly so that you
can use them to full effect in an emergency is to always use both brakes
every time you stop. If you have to think about it you are screwed.


John Walters (Long John)
PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Up near DC

Honda ST1100X Pan European
    (With all of the STs all of a sudden the Pan European
      is now necessary {and I still like it.})
BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles
Honda 1976 CR250M  Motowhat racer

From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar  5 09:51:04 2002
From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 09:50:54 EST
Subject: Re: angled valve stems
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

I think the Honda GL1500 uses 90deg. valve stems. Expensive I am sure, but
they use em.


John Walters (Long John)
PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Up near DC

Honda ST1100X Pan European
    (With all of the STs all of a sudden the Pan European
      is now necessary {and I still like it.})
BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles
Honda 1976 CR250M  Motowhat racer

From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar  5 09:54:40 2002
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 09:54:35 -0500
From: <sdave@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Cc:
Subject: Re: Braking (sportbikes)

John pokes a marshmallow into the flames --

While riding down the street the motorcycles weight is distributed
about 50/50 (It varies bike to bike, and situation to
situation. ...That means that the braking available is 50/50 _at the
moment braking starts_
If you go for 100% braking at that moment you will lock the front
wheel. A BAD THING! Yes you can get 100% at the front wheel but only
AFTER 100% of the bikes weight transfers to the front wheel.

  <DJY>  At which point, your rear wheel is completely unweighted &
in the process of lofting if not already airborne.  It looks cool,
but can get out of hand very easily.


The practical offshoot of that _fact_ is Apply BOTH brakes and
INCREASE pressure on the front brake while DECREASING pressure on the
rear as the weight transfers.

And that ladies and gentlemen is how MSF tells us to gain maximum
braking. And it aint easy.
The only way to gain enough skill at using your brakes properly so
that you can use them to full effect in an emergency is to always use
both brakes every time you stop. If you have to think about it you
are screwed.

  <DJY>  Sage advice.  good points all.

Dave





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From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar  5 10:10:05 2002
Date: 5 Mar 2002 07:09:57 -0800
To: sdave@XXXXXX
From: LAURA GRANATO <lgranato@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Braking (sportbikes)


>
> The practical offshoot of that _fact_ is Apply BOTH brakes and
> INCREASE pressure on the front brake while DECREASING pressure on the
> rear as the weight transfers.

OK, people...how many times are we going to debate the damn braking issue? LOL...

>
> And that ladies and gentlemen is how MSF tells us to gain maximum
> braking. And it aint easy.

I will say, from my riding experience...MSF is NOT correct in everything they teach.  I think it's important to remember that MSF is an incredible way to learn how to safely get started on a bike, but as your riding progresses, the theories of riding change and how you apply your skills.

> The only way to gain enough skill at using your brakes properly so
> that you can use them to full effect in an emergency is to always use
> both brakes every time you stop. If you have to think about it you
> are screwed.

I *never* use my back brake, so much so that when I went off the track at VIR, I didn't occur to me that using the back brake was the safest choice IN THAT SITUATION...therefore, I crashed.  You need to figure out what is best for the situation you are in at the time.

LAG


________________________________________________
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http://www.peoplepc.com

From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar  5 10:21:16 2002
From: "Meredith, Steve (Contr)" <SMeredith@XXXXXX>
To: "DC Cycles (E-mail)" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Cc: "Herb Manell (E-mail)" <nomad98@XXXXXX>,
   "Justin Lemrow (E-mail)"
	 <justin@XXXXXX>,
   "Rob Keiser (E-mail)" <robkeiser@XXXXXX>,
   "Richard Sperry (E-mail)" <richardsperry@XXXXXX>
Subject: COTU III
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 07:20:10 -0800


Calling all northern Va VFR riders.  It's time to start planning for the
ride to COTU3.  I'll volunteer to be the focal point for organizing the trip
if others are interested in getting a northern VA group together.  Contact
me off-list if interested.  The COTU3 web site is
http://users1.ee.net/adwvfr/cotu/cotu3.htm

Steve
97 VFR
Warrenton, VA




From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar  5 10:26:20 2002
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 10:25:26 -0500 (EST)
From: hcaldwell <hcaldwell@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: speaking of back injuries and protectors


	The back protectors I see on race bikes look like half
of a cone. Is this what your talking about? If so I believe the
protectors are shaped that way for aerodynamic reasons while in
full tuck.

Hugh

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 daniel_ex250@XXXXXX wrote:

>
> The usual 'street' back protectors seem to be shaped along the lines
> of a persons back.. the ones I've seen on some racers,  have a
> different look. Instead of being shaped like someones back, they seem
> to take an outward curve...   as if you had a utility pole made of
> foam, cut it down to back size, cut it in half so that it's half
> round, and placed the flat part on your back.   It kind of looks like
> it is ample back protection.  I don't know if it's used in the US or
> in other countries, all i know is i've seen it on tv.
>


From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar  5 10:34:24 2002
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 10:34:18 -0500
From: <sdave@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Cc: lgranato@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Braking (sportbikes)

LAG whines -
OK, people...how many times are we going to debate the damn braking
issue? LOL...

  <DJY> This is DC *CYCLES* not DC *SOCIAL* we'll debate the brake
issue until the list is extinct :-)



I will say, from my riding experience...


   <DJY>  How long is that in years & mileage ?


MSF is NOT correct in
everything they teach.  I think it's important to remember that MSF is
an incredible way to learn how to safely get started on a bike, but as
your riding progresses, the theories of riding change and how you
apply your skills.


   <DJY>  As well as what type of bike you choose.  MSF has to
account for all types from chopper to race replica and it is a street
course, not how to go fast around a track.


> The only way to gain enough skill at using your brakes properly so
> that you can use them to full effect in an emergency is to always
> use both brakes every time you stop. If you have to think about it
> you are screwed.


I *never* use my back brake, so much so that when I went off the track
at VIR, I didn't occur to me that using the back brake was the safest
choice IN THAT SITUATION...therefore, I crashed.

   <DJY>  See?!  you ride like you practice!

And just where *IS* Glenn in all this ?  he started it ;-)

Dave


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From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar  5 10:39:09 2002
Date: 5 Mar 2002 07:39:02 -0800
To: sdave@XXXXXX
From: LAURA GRANATO <lgranato@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Braking (sportbikes)

On Tue, 05 March 2002, sdave@XXXXXX wrote:

>
> LAG whines -

First of all, I don't whine...It was bitching, thank you...

>   <DJY> This is DC *CYCLES* not DC *SOCIAL* we'll debate the brake
> issue until the list is extinct :-)

I agree that it's not DC *social*, but why do we run circles around the same "cycle" issues and never come up with any answers...here's a challenge, Dave.  Go back and see how many times we've debated this issue and tell me the outcome of each.
>
>
> I will say, from my riding experience...
>
>
>    <DJY>  How long is that in years & mileage ?

Enough...I know plenty of people who have been riding for eons and they just plain shouldn't drive a shopping cart at the grocery store...It doesn't have to do with that type of "experience..."

>
>
>    <DJY>  As well as what type of bike you choose.  MSF has to
> account for all types from chopper to race replica and it is a street
> course, not how to go fast around a track.

Did I apply my comment to only racing?  NO...didn't think so...

>
>    <DJY>  See?!  you ride like you practice!
>
Wrong...my inexperience in that situation led me to make a mistake.  One I'll never make again. I'm saying that you have to *evaluate* the situation and what is best for that...

In a pissed off mood...can't you tell?

LAG


________________________________________________
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http://www.peoplepc.com

From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar  5 10:46:10 2002
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 10:43:22 -0500
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Rob Winters <rob@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Oh boy!  New toy!

At 08:53 AM 3/5/2002, William J. Huson wrote:
>A bit pricey, but this rig looks kinda cool!
>
>http://www.carver.nl/home.htm

A bit pricey, indeed! 55,000 Euros = $47,800!

Because this is a trike, would it be considered a motorcycle in the U.S.,
therefore you'd have to wear a helmet, even inside that enclosed cockpit?
They advertise otherwise for the home market:

"A detachable hardtop makes the ultimate dream of a bike rider come true:
winding along the roads in just your shirt, no helmet to spoil the fun!"

Just your shirt, huh? I guess pants aren't required in the Netherlands,
either. What a fun place! ;-) I think even Connecticut requires that
motorcyclists wear pants.

  /// Rob

P.S. Join NORPaL, the National Organization for the Repeal of Pants Laws


From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar  5 10:54:01 2002
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 07:53:55 -0800 (PST)
From: Chris Weaver <chris_vtr@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: speaking of back injuries and protectors
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

These things aren't back protectors. They may serve
some minor protective duties in the right kind of
fall, but they're really only there for aerodynamic
reasons. There are a number of leathers manufacturers
that make suits with these on them, but they're of
highly questionable use on the street aside from their
pose value.

Chris Weaver


--- hcaldwell <hcaldwell@XXXXXX> wrote:
>
> 	The back protectors I see on race bikes look like
> half
> of a cone. Is this what your talking about? If so I
> believe the
> protectors are shaped that way for aerodynamic
> reasons while in
> full tuck.
>
> Hugh
>
> On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 daniel_ex250@XXXXXX wrote:
>
> >
> > The usual 'street' back protectors seem to be
> shaped along the lines
> > of a persons back.. the ones I've seen on some
> racers,  have a
> > different look. Instead of being shaped like
> someones back, they seem
> > to take an outward curve...   as if you had a
> utility pole made of
> > foam, cut it down to back size, cut it in half so
> that it's half
> > round, and placed the flat part on your back.   It
> kind of looks like
> > it is ample back protection.  I don't know if it's
> used in the US or
> > in other countries, all i know is i've seen it on
> tv.
> >
>


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From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar  5 11:06:52 2002
From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
To: "dc-cycles list" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Braking (sportbikes)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:03:12 -0500

----- Original Message -----
From: "LAURA GRANATO" <lgranato@XXXXXX>
>
> >
> > The practical offshoot of that _fact_ is Apply BOTH brakes and
> > INCREASE pressure on the front brake while DECREASING pressure on the
> > rear as the weight transfers.
>
> OK, people...how many times are we going to debate the damn braking issue?
LOL...
>
> >
> > And that ladies and gentlemen is how MSF tells us to gain maximum
> > braking. And it aint easy.
>
> I will say, from my riding experience...MSF is NOT correct in everything
they teach.  I think it's important to remember that MSF is an incredible
way to learn how to safely get started on a bike, but as your riding
progresses, the theories of riding change and how you apply your skills.
>
> > The only way to gain enough skill at using your brakes properly so
> > that you can use them to full effect in an emergency is to always use
> > both brakes every time you stop. If you have to think about it you
> > are screwed.
>
> I *never* use my back brake, so much so that when I went off the track at
VIR, I didn't occur to me that using the back brake was the safest choice IN
THAT SITUATION...therefore, I crashed.  You need to figure out what is best
for the situation you are in at the time.
>
> LAG

MSF assumes that people are going to ride all sorts of bikes once they
leave the Basic RiderCourse, so the curriculum is designed with that in
mind.  Cruisers brake a lot differently that sportbikes, for instance.  Many
bikes come with ABS or linked brakes these days.  It is also based on
research that
shows underbraking with the front and overbraking with the rear is a major
contributor to street crashes.  Having driven cars, mashing the rear pedal
usually comes naturally to newbies.  Squeezing the front lever brings back
memories
of misadventures on a bicycle, in the form of an over-the-handlebars
somersault.  It's the
basics, not the finer points, that's for sure, and is designed for widest
applicability to "real world" situations among riders of average skill on a
variety of bikes.

With all that in mind let's not get too hung up on percentages.  Let's just
say that on streetbikes, the front provides the majority of your stopping
power throughout the entire braking sequence as the weight shifts forward.
According to the old IG (Instructor Guide) riders were counseled to provide
a progressive squeeze to the front lever and a decreasing pressure on the
rear pedal as they slowed to a "maximum straight-line braking" stop.  That's
true on any bike, but the "percentage" is going to differ based on lots of
factors and where you are in the progressive weight shift.  I try to stay
away from percentages and go with "majority."  That gets the point across
without getting bogged down in technicalities.

Paul in DC
95 VFR750F - 86 VF500F





From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar  5 11:20:08 2002
Date: 5 Mar 2002 08:20:01 -0800
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: LAURA GRANATO <lgranato@XXXXXX>
Subject: helmet dilemma

I have a dilemma...I have a free bike to ride this weekend to watch the Daytona 200 at Greveys or wherever it is...but no helmet.  I wear an XS.  Here's the dilemma...

Do I borrow a larger size and just stuff it with socks and stuff?  Go without one?  I'm not quite sure what to do...


How's that for a new twist on the helmet thread???

LAG <---being very sarcastic today...I'll be driving my car on Sunday


________________________________________________
PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart.
http://www.peoplepc.com

From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar  5 11:26:05 2002
From: "Jon Strang" <jmstrang@XXXXXX>
To: "LAURA GRANATO" <lgranato@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: helmet dilemma
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:24:38 -0500

> Do I borrow a larger size and just stuff it with socks and stuff?
>  Go without one?  I'm not quite sure what to do...

ROTFLMAO.

Good one, Laura.

--jon

From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar  5 11:30:46 2002
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:30:40 -0500
From: <sdave@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Cc:
Subject: Re: Braking (sportbikes)

LAG corrects -

First of all, I don't whine...It was bitching, thank you...

  <DJY>  Oh YEAH?!  My wife has PMDD.  So there ! ;-)



I agree that it's not DC *social*, but why do we run circles around
the same "cycle" issues and never come up with any answers


  <DJY> It's our destiny ?

...here's a challenge, Dave.  Go back and see how many times we've
debated this issue and tell me the outcome of each.

   <DJY> minimum twice per year since <head scratching>...
uh...  '94 or '95?  I seem to remember around '96 or '97 it was a
summer marathon flame fest of brake threads...  give or take a year
or two.  The outcome is always the same - 1 or 2 step up, thumb their
chests because 'they know more than the unwashed masses', some
insults are traded, and it usually goes away in a couple of days.
Sometimes there *IS* a good post or two, or a trinquet of wisdom
embedded in all the fluff.

> I will say, from my riding experience...
>
>
>    <DJY>  How long is that in years & mileage ?

Enough...I know plenty of people who have been riding for eons and
they just plain shouldn't drive a shopping cart at the grocery
store...It doesn't have to do with that type of "experience..."

  <DJY> shopping carts ?  Look, I mow down one lousy customer in
Lowe's with a lumber cart & I'm labeled for life.
Actually, Glenn's original quoted text said something like 'the ratio
isn't important'....  which we've pretty much ignored...
rear brake, no rear brake ; different usage for different venues...


>
>
>    <DJY>  As well as what type of bike you choose.  MSF has to
> account for all types from chopper to race replica and it is a
street course, not how to go fast around a track.

Did I apply my comment to only racing?  NO...didn't think so...

  <DJY> It was a comment, not lobbing shells at you...


>    <DJY>  See?!  you ride like you practice!
>
Wrong...


   <DJY>  can't argue wisdom like that...

Dave


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From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar  5 11:38:45 2002
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:38:39 -0500
From: <sdave@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Cc:
Subject: re: helmet dilemma

I have a dilemma...I have a free bike to ride ...but no helmet.  I
wear an XS.  Here's the dilemma...

Do I borrow a larger size and just stuff it with socks and stuff?  Go
without one?  I'm not quite sure what to do...

  <DJY>  Wouldn't tissue be more...  comfortable ?  ;-)
(sorry, no helmets that small in my inventory)...


Dave



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From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar  5 11:49:21 2002
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:48:27 -0500 (EST)
From: hcaldwell <hcaldwell@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Braking (sportbikes)


	Minimum stopping distance is achieved by using both
brakes. You should apply the rear brake first to settle the
bike an make it squat. Then apply the front brake. If you don't
agree with me you're a freaking MORON!

No thanks necessary just send money,
Hugh



From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar  5 12:27:51 2002
From: "Eric Silberg" <ersilberg@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Braking (sportbikes)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 12:27:26 -0500

Maximum breaking occurs when you settle the bike, adjust the weight bias
with your body, then hit a brick wall.  Oh wait, you said braking.
Disregard...




From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar  5 12:33:00 2002
Date: 5 Mar 2002 09:32:49 -0800
To: sdave@XXXXXX
From: LAURA GRANATO <lgranato@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Braking (sportbikes)

On Tue, 05 March 2002, sdave@XXXXXX wrote:

>
> LAG corrects -
>
> First of all, I don't whine...It was bitching, thank you...
>
>   <DJY>  Oh YEAH?!  My wife has PMDD.  So there ! ;-)

Your poor wife...she's married to you.  Just kidding! ;-)
>
>
>
>   <DJY> shopping carts ?  Look, I mow down one lousy customer in
> Lowe's with a lumber cart & I'm labeled for life.

question is...did you use the front, rear, or a combination of both brakes? And, how would you handle that situation differently next time?

> Actually, Glenn's original quoted text said something like 'the ratio
> isn't important'....  which we've pretty much ignored...

Of course we have...it wouldn't be right if we actually debated the *real* issue. LOL.

> Wrong...
>
>    <DJY>  can't argue wisdom like that...
>
Of course you can't...just realize the woman is *always* right and you'll be fine.

LAG


________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar  5 12:52:21 2002
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 09:52:19 -0800 (PST)
From: matthew patton <pattonme@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Braking (sportbikes)
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

I realize the original topic has been largely discarded, but if you
will all turn to your handy-dandy, multi-year MCN index you will find
on P.34 of the March 2000 issue a very well written article with
scientific, and physics based explanation of what is going on. And not
some hearsay or enlightened opinion.

and they say, back issues of MCN aren't worth anything. nor an index
cross-referenced in a usable fashion...

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From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar  5 13:58:03 2002
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 10:58:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Chris Weaver <chris_vtr@XXXXXX>
Subject: Shipping a Motor?
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

I'm having a motorcycle motor shipped from California
to here, and seller says it's turning out to cost much
more than originally planned ($300 rather than
$100-120). This seems like far too much and I'm going
to see if I can't find a cheaper way to ship it than
the seller has found.

Has anyone found an inexpensive way to ship small
heavy containers such as this?

Thanks,
Chris Weaver

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From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar  5 14:49:54 2002
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 14:49:48 -0500
From: <sdave@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Cc:
Subject: Re: Braking (sportbikes)

LAG throws a barb -

Your poor wife...she's married to you.  Just kidding! ;-)

  <DJY>  a true glutton for punishment...

> shopping carts ?  Look, I mow down one lousy customer in
> Lowe's with a lumber cart & I'm labeled for life.

question is...did you use the front, rear, or a combination of both
brakes? And, how would you handle that situation differently next
time?

  <DJY> The lumber carts only have a rear brake, so I used it...
That is to say, I pulled the lever, which resulted in no decrease in
velocity.  Planted the 4x4 right between the eyes of that little brat
running through the store unsupervised...  I guess it didn't help
things that I had 300# of asphalt patch on the cart...  I don't know
WHAT they were upset about... I got the kid to stop screaming <jk>



Of course you can't...just realize the woman is *always* right and
you'll be fine.


  <DJY>  Just like Eve was right about the Apple, huh ? ;-)
   I might be fine, but I'll be broke.

Dave


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From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar  5 15:24:30 2002
Date: 5 Mar 2002 12:24:23 -0800
To: sdave@XXXXXX
From: LAURA GRANATO <lgranato@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Braking (sportbikes)

On Tue, 05 March 2002, sdave@XXXXXX wrote:

>
> LAG throws a barb -
>
> Your poor wife...she's married to you.  Just kidding! ;-)
>
>   <DJY>  a true glutton for punishment...

Must be...maybe that's why I'm not married...haven't found someone willing to put up with my crap. LOL.


>   <DJY> The lumber carts only have a rear brake, so I used it...
> That is to say, I pulled the lever, which resulted in no decrease in
> velocity.  Planted the 4x4 right between the eyes of that little brat
> running through the store unsupervised...  I guess it didn't help
> things that I had 300# of asphalt patch on the cart...  I don't know
> WHAT they were upset about... I got the kid to stop screaming <jk>

Good Lord, I hope you never have kids...or pets, for that matter. ;-)

>
> Of course you can't...just realize the woman is *always* right and
> you'll be fine.
>
>
>   <DJY>  Just like Eve was right about the Apple, huh ? ;-)
>    I might be fine, but I'll be broke.
>

Nothing wrong with a little bit of sin...

LAG


________________________________________________
PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart.
http://www.peoplepc.com

From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar  5 16:04:50 2002
Subject: New book - Sportbiking: The Real World 2
From: "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:04:47 -0500
To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
CC: "jaehnej@XXXXXX" <jaehnej@XXXXXX>

Some of you may be familiar with Gary Jaehne's book "Sportbiking: The Real World".

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1556308353/qid=3D1015355789/sr3D1-1/ref=3Dsr_1_1/102-8926252-9090557

Well, Gary has a sequel out "Sportbiking: The Real World 2".

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1556303882/qid=3D1015355789/sr3D1-2/ref=3Dsr_1_2/102-8926252-9090557.

Amazon.com is showing availability "usually ships in 4 to 6 weeks."  But you may also be able to get it directly from Gary and his wife Jill.  I'm taking the liberty of including Jill's email address as a cc to this email (I hope you don't mind, Jill!) if anyone is interested in buying a copy of the book directly from the author.  I'm pretty sure Jill is in charge of the "business end" of distributing the book.  She can tell you how much plus shipping.  And no, I'm not getting any commissions for the sales of the book! %^)

For those who don't know Gary, he is sort of an "icon" in the sportbiking world in Northern California.  He is an accomplished racer (won the AFM 450 Superbike championship on a Kawasaki ZXR400 last year and has other AFM titles) and an instructor for dP Safety School http://www.dpsafetyschool.com (track school run by Dennis Pegelow).  Leads lots of rides from Alice's Restaurant http://www.calhsta.org/library/alices.htm on roads like these http://www.pashnit.com/roads/cal/AlpineRd.htm and does clinics for Doc Wong http://www.docwong.com/st-clinc/index.htm.  I met Gary via the internet and we've become good friends over the years.  He's done a lot to help me become a better rider and have a better understanding of my motorcycle.  Haven't had a chance to ride with him (yet ... and I'm sure I'd have to hustle to keep up!), but have had dinner with him and Jill.  Both are great folks.

I'd highly recommend both books (although I haven't read the second one yet because it's just being sent to me).  I would put them in the "must have" category for sportbike riders who like to ride at a "spirited" pace on "real" roads, but they're also very useful for all motorcycle riders.

Chuck

P.S.  Gary and I do have one thing in common: we've both hit deer while riding our motorcycles (although he's done it more times than me!)

--------------------------------------------------------------------
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From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar  5 19:38:26 2002
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 19:36:35 -0500
From: "William J. Huson" <bhuson@XXXXXX>
To: LAURA GRANATO <lgranato@XXXXXX>
CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: helmet dilemma



LAURA GRANATO wrote:

> I have a dilemma...I have a free bike to ride this weekend to watch the Daytona 200 at Greveys or wherever it is...but no helmet.  I wear an XS.  Here's the dilemma...
>
> Do I borrow a larger size and just stuff it with socks and stuff?  Go without one?  I'm not quite sure what to do...

I don't understand - I thought girls were experts at padding out semi-spherical garments?

Bill


From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar  5 20:26:00 2002
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 20:25:58 -0500 (EST)
FROM: clinton7 <clinton7@XXXXXX>
SUBJECT: Getting information on a particular.

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------=_NextPart_000_0086_0146E4CE.F6E4CE30--


From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar  5 21:14:25 2002
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Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 21:24:04 -0500
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Wayne Edelen <wayne@XXXXXX>
Subject: Throttlemeister
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Got my throttle lock from AZ Motorsports the other day and decided to
install it tonight.  Really easy to install and it seems to work as
advertised.  Testing tonight included sitting on the bike and going
<vroom><vroom> inside the garage  :-)  (it's damn cold outside)

I'm not a big fan of the aluminum look, might have to remove them to paint
or powdercoat them black.

Pics - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/mods/throttlemeister/

Next up - ZG Double Bubble (should be in later this week - in time for
riding this weekend!)

-- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/

From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar  5 21:48:26 2002
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Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 21:47:28 -0500
Subject: Re: Braking (sportbikes)
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: "garcia oliver" <garicao@XXXXXX>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10203051145280.6376-100000@rhino.spottedcat.com>
 <031e01c1c46b$04ac9ad0$27a22e82@silbergejw2k>
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Perhaps some folks might measure their stopping distances, alternating
between using both brakes and using front brake only.  More evidence, less
theory. (This has undoubtedly already been done, in which case it's just a
matter of finding the data.)

--garcia

"Don't bother me with facts.  I've already made up my mind."


From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar  6 09:17:56 2002
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From: "Diep, Tuan (Washington)" <Tuan.Diep@XXXXXX>
To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: CBR600
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:17:43 -0500 
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Does anyone know what scheduled maintenance a 95-97 CBR-F3 with
15,000-20,000 miles needs and how much it will cost?

Please also let me know if you see a '95-97 CBR-F3 for sale.
Thanks.
Tuan

From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar  6 10:09:48 2002
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Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 10:09:04 -0500
From: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Braking (sportbikes)
To: garcia oliver <garicao@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10203051145280.6376-100000@rhino.spottedcat.com>
 <031e01c1c46b$04ac9ad0$27a22e82@silbergejw2k>
 <fc.0085841200334fa23b9aca00416c6663.33502c@XXXXXX>

garcia oliver wrote:
> 
> Perhaps some folks might measure their stopping distances, alternating
> between using both brakes and using front brake only.  More evidence, less
> theory. (This has undoubtedly already been done, in which case it's just a
> matter of finding the data.)

We had an impromptu braking course set up once at one of Leon's Circles
sessions a couple years ago, set up marks on the pavement corresponding
to certain distances, etc. etc.  We had at least one wipeout by someone
locking the front and having it tuck, and everyone sort of lost interest
in the exercise after that.

If someone wants to practice hard braking, go ahead, but be careful.  
It can be too easy to identify the limits of your bike the hard way.

Hork
-- 
Same old Hork, but new email - horkster@XXXXXX

Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)

Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 

'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer  
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi 
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar  6 10:14:51 2002
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From: Ulrich Boser <ulrichboser@XXXXXX>
Reply-To: ulrich@XXXXXX
Subject: dc-cycles digest for 03/05/02
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Hello,

I got a ticket last night in DC for parking within 40
feet of a curb - what the fuck? How could one park
anywhere?

Does anyone know anything about this law? I had heard
something about it being repealed. I took pictures and
would love to contest it.

Thanks!

ub


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From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar  6 11:48:53 2002
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From: "Lantech (DCOP)" <lantech.cwd@XXXXXX>
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The parking rules in DC seem to change block-by-block and the ticket-writers
don't always know what's what.  The distance you need to be from an
intersection depends on what kind of intersection it is; you have to be
farther away when it is a bigger intersection, etc.  Also they make you park
farther away from the intersection if it is a school zone, so drivers can
have a better chance of seeing the little kids in the crosswalk.  They count
it as a school zone if it is the "usual" route between the school and the
Metro, or the school and the major bus line, so even if you don't see a
school around, you might be in a school zone.

Basically if there is no sign saying No Parking, you can contest your
ticket. Just take the ticket and the pictures to 65 K Street NE and usually
they just drop them the same day.  Even if it is not legally a spot, if the
sign is missing they will drop the ticket too.

FYI the parking "police" (I use that term very lightly) do not seem to know
the laws very well. Especially the finer points like how long after
registering the car/bike you get to have it inspected (you are supposed to
be able to park on the street for X number of days with no inspection
sticker and not get a ticket).  If you ever think the parking ticket you got
is in error, it's always good to at least ask the DMV because a lot of times
you will be right.

Most of the parking ticket info is at dmv.dc.gov; very fine points are not
here but the rules/procedure for contesting a ticket are.

Good luck!

From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar  6 12:37:50 2002
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From: LAURA GRANATO <lgranato@XXXXXX>
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Subject: Daytona 200 Gathering

Who all is planning to go?

Laura


________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar  6 12:56:40 2002
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Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 12:56:22 -0500
From: Sean jordan <Sean.Jordan@XXXXXX>
Subject: Paging Howard Koontz
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Howard, shoot me an email if you'd be so kind...thanks!


Regards,

Sean Jordan
Systems Analyst
WORLDCOM


From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar  6 12:57:57 2002
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Subject: RE: Daytona 200 Gathering
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Me!  Since it was my idea and I organized it, I figure it's probably a good idea if at least I show up.  Hopefully, Karen and Marin will be there too (but it's right in the middle of Marin's normal nap time).

Chuck

Original Message:
-----------------
From: LAURA GRANATO lgranato@XXXXXX
Date: 6 Mar 2002 09:37:42 -0800
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Daytona 200 Gathering


Who all is planning to go?

Laura


________________________________________________
PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart. 
http://www.peoplepc.com 

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From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar  6 13:54:43 2002
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Subject: RE: Daytona 200 Gathering
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I'm planning on it, but I too have a tiny munchkin who runs the schedule.
On the good side though, she's still small enough to fit into the tankbag :)
Cedric


Me!  Since it was my idea and I organized it, I figure it's probably a good
idea if at least I show up.  Hopefully, Karen and Marin will be there too
(but it's right in the middle of Marin's normal nap time).

Chuck


From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar  6 14:07:38 2002
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From: stephen cutchins <stephen_cutchins@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Daytona 200 Gathering
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Is there a Daytona 200 gathering somewhere around DC
to watch the 200 on Sunday?  If so could you please
let me know where, as my cable company doesn't start
showing Speed Channel until after 5.

Does anyone out there with a satellite plan on taping
the races?  If so could I please get a copy?  I MUST
watch all of the races, it's kind of a sickness
really.  600, 750, 250, Supercross, you name it, I go
nuts if I don't get to watch them.  And don't even get
me started on World Superbikes and GP1!!!

--- "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
wrote:
> Me!  Since it was my idea and I organized it, I
> figure it's probably a good idea if at least I show
> up.  Hopefully, Karen and Marin will be there too
> (but it's right in the middle of Marin's normal nap
> time).
> 
> Chuck
> 
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: LAURA GRANATO lgranato@XXXXXX
> Date: 6 Mar 2002 09:37:42 -0800
> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> Subject: Daytona 200 Gathering
> 
> 
> Who all is planning to go?
> 
> Laura
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________
> PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart.
> http://www.peoplepc.com
> 
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------
> mail2web - Check your email from the web at
> http://mail2web.com/ .
> 


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From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar  6 14:35:04 2002
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From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: dc-cycles digest for 03/05/02
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--- Ulrich Boser <ulrichboser@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I got a ticket last night in DC for parking within 40
> feet of a curb - what the fuck? How could one park
> anywhere?

i think i speak for most of the listers when i request that
you please watch your language.  please remember that there
are innocent little children on this list.... e.g., sean
jordan, chuck pena, etc.


--
tg

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From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar  6 14:43:45 2002
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From: "Rob Curtis" <rm.curtis@XXXXXX>
To: "DC-CYCLES" <DC-CYCLES@XXXXXX>
Subject: Anyone want a 2002 Dainese Catalog?
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 14:43:39 -0500
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Fresh from Rome, brought it back if anybody wants it, free for the
taking...

Robby C


From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar  6 15:09:09 2002
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From: stephen cutchins <stephen_cutchins@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Daytona 200 Gathering
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Barring an unforeseen disaster, I will be there,
hopefully with my fiance.

They will have Speed on from 12:30-3:30, loud enough
so we can hear it?

12:30 at grevey's in falls church/fairfax area.  I
have the same 
sickness you do, and no cable right now...



--- LAURA GRANATO <lgranato@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Who all is planning to go?
> 
> Laura
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________
> PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart. 
> http://www.peoplepc.com 


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From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar  6 15:31:33 2002
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Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 12:31:23 -0800 (PST)
From: rdrdr <rydin@XXXXXX>
Reply-To: rydin@XXXXXX
Subject: FS: 97' BMW F650ST
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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--0-1521096075-1015446683=:20762
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Ladies, gentlemen, and the rest of you... :-)

Its time to sell. I'm leaving the country VERY shortly and I need to sell my beloved Beemer.

Details: Blue 1997' BMW F650ST, approx. 23,000 miles.

It is well taken care of but has a few scratches. It has a new rear tire and new chain. Steel braided front brake line, Wudo adjustable brake lever, heated grips, and a BMW 12V plug. I did most of the work on it myself, I have all the receipts and records.

For those not familiar with this bike: Its the street version of the F650 Funduro, about 1" lower suspension with street wheels and tires and a slightly different look. It has a 1 cylinder Rotax engine. This bike is great fun. I've ridden it as a commuter and as a tourer. Really friendly, lots of fun, and very comfortable.

You can view the bike at: http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/rydin/lst?.dir=/Yahoo!+Photo+Album

Contact me by email at rydin@XXXXXX or by phone at 301-585-0104.

I'll be out of town this weekend but I'll try and check my email anyway. I'll be back Sunday evening.

Niv



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--0-1521096075-1015446683=:20762
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<P>Ladies, gentlemen, and the rest of you... :-)</P>
<P>Its time to sell. I'm leaving the country VERY shortly and I need to sell my beloved Beemer.</P>
<P>Details: Blue 1997' BMW F650ST, approx. 23,000 miles.</P>
<P>It is well taken care of but has a few scratches. It has a new rear tire and new chain. Steel braided front brake line, Wudo adjustable brake lever, heated grips, and a BMW 12V plug. I did most of the work on it myself, I have all the receipts and records.</P>
<P>For those not familiar with this bike: Its the street version of the F650 Funduro, about 1" lower suspension with street wheels and tires and a slightly different look. It has a 1 cylinder Rotax engine. This bike is great fun. I've ridden it as a commuter and as a tourer. Really friendly, lots of fun, and very comfortable.</P>
<P>You can view the bike at: <A href="http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/rydin/lst?.dir=/Yahoo!+Photo+Album">http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/rydin/lst?.dir=/Yahoo!+Photo+Album</A></P>
<P>Contact me by email at <A href="mailto:rydin@XXXXXX">rydin@XXXXXX</A> or by phone at 301-585-0104.</P>
<P>I'll be out of town this weekend but I'll try and check my email anyway. I'll be back Sunday evening.</P>
<P>Niv</P><p><br><hr size=1><b>Do You Yahoo!?</b><br>
Try FREE <a href="$rd_url/tag/http://mail.yahoo.com/">Yahoo! Mail</a> - the world's greatest free email!
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From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar  6 15:40:07 2002
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Sender: "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
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Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 15:40:20 -0500
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Gimer,

Fuck you and the horse you rode in on! %^)

Chuck

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Tom Gimer t_gimer@XXXXXX
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:35:01 -0800 (PST)
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: dc-cycles digest for 03/05/02


--- Ulrich Boser <ulrichboser@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I got a ticket last night in DC for parking within 40
> feet of a curb - what the fuck? How could one park
> anywhere?

i think i speak for most of the listers when i request that
you please watch your language.  please remember that there
are innocent little children on this list.... e.g., sean
jordan, chuck pena, etc.


--
tg

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From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar  6 15:43:31 2002
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Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 15:44:45 -0500
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Stephen,

Go to http://www.geocities.com/bikenight for info and details.  Apparently, you missed my previous post to the list about this event.

If you are REALLY, REALLY nice to me, i.e., not an asswipe like that fuck Gimer %^), I might lend you my tape which will have:

- WSB Spain races 1 and 2
- Daytona 250GP race
- Daytona 200 Superbike race

If I can squeeze the other races onto the tape, I will.  But no promises.  Those above are the ones I absolutely postively want to have on tape (I'll also have them digitally recorded).

Chuck

Original Message:
-----------------
From: stephen cutchins stephen_cutchins@XXXXXX
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:07:35 -0800 (PST)
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: Daytona 200 Gathering


Is there a Daytona 200 gathering somewhere around DC
to watch the 200 on Sunday?  If so could you please
let me know where, as my cable company doesn't start
showing Speed Channel until after 5.

Does anyone out there with a satellite plan on taping
the races?  If so could I please get a copy?  I MUST
watch all of the races, it's kind of a sickness
really.  600, 750, 250, Supercross, you name it, I go
nuts if I don't get to watch them.  And don't even get
me started on World Superbikes and GP1!!!

--- "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
wrote:
> Me!  Since it was my idea and I organized it, I
> figure it's probably a good idea if at least I show
> up.  Hopefully, Karen and Marin will be there too
> (but it's right in the middle of Marin's normal nap
> time).
> 
> Chuck
> 
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: LAURA GRANATO lgranato@XXXXXX
> Date: 6 Mar 2002 09:37:42 -0800
> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> Subject: Daytona 200 Gathering
> 
> 
> Who all is planning to go?
> 
> Laura
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________
> PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart.
> http://www.peoplepc.com
> 
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------
> mail2web - Check your email from the web at
> http://mail2web.com/ .
> 


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From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar  6 15:52:53 2002
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Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 15:52:05 -0500
From: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Daytona 200 Gathering
To: stephen cutchins <stephen_cutchins@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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stephen cutchins wrote:

> 12:30 at grevey's in falls church/fairfax area.  I
> have the same
> sickness you do, and no cable right now...

I must have a different sickness.  Daytona is only
about a 12 hour ride down the road, and I've never
seen the races in person yet...  :)

Too bad my weekend is already booked up doing oil
changes on 4-wheelers and other mundane stuff.

Horkster

-- 
Same old Hork, but new email - horkster@XXXXXX

Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)

Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 

'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer  
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi 
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar  6 15:57:27 2002
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From: LAURA GRANATO <lgranato@XXXXXX>
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Subject: The No-Blues

Can I just bitch for a second (dave?)...Until April 30th, I am living in a place that I do not have access to cable on my TV...meaning no racing for me to watch.  

Can I just tell you how annoying that is?  How am I supposed to get my fix?  

:-)
LAG


________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar  6 15:59:28 2002
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Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 12:59:24 -0800 (PST)
From: stephen cutchins <stephen_cutchins@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: RE: Daytona 200 Gathering
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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MIME-Version: 1.0
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About taping the races, Speed Channel was going to
show the WSB races Sunday morning but has apparently
changed scheduling to race 1 at I think 12:30 and then
race 2 not until Tuesday night, so you might want to
check their website for any more last minute
programming changes before setting the VCR.

And I would love a copy of the tape :)

--- "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
wrote:
> Stephen,
> 
> Go to http://www.geocities.com/bikenight for info
> and details.  Apparently, you missed my previous
> post to the list about this event.
> 
> If you are REALLY, REALLY nice to me, i.e., not an
> asswipe like that fuck Gimer %^), I might lend you
> my tape which will have:
> 
> - WSB Spain races 1 and 2
> - Daytona 250GP race
> - Daytona 200 Superbike race
> 
> If I can squeeze the other races onto the tape, I
> will.  But no promises.  Those above are the ones I
> absolutely postively want to have on tape (I'll also
> have them digitally recorded).
> 
> Chuck
> 
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: stephen cutchins stephen_cutchins@XXXXXX
> Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:07:35 -0800 (PST)
> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> Subject: RE: Daytona 200 Gathering
> 
> 
> Is there a Daytona 200 gathering somewhere around DC
> to watch the 200 on Sunday?  If so could you please
> let me know where, as my cable company doesn't start
> showing Speed Channel until after 5.
> 
> Does anyone out there with a satellite plan on
> taping
> the races?  If so could I please get a copy?  I MUST
> watch all of the races, it's kind of a sickness
> really.  600, 750, 250, Supercross, you name it, I
> go
> nuts if I don't get to watch them.  And don't even
> get
> me started on World Superbikes and GP1!!!
> 
> --- "cvkgpena@XXXXXX"
> <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
> wrote:
> > Me!  Since it was my idea and I organized it, I
> > figure it's probably a good idea if at least I
> show
> > up.  Hopefully, Karen and Marin will be there too
> > (but it's right in the middle of Marin's normal
> nap
> > time).
> >
> > Chuck
> >
> > Original Message:
> > -----------------
> > From: LAURA GRANATO lgranato@XXXXXX
> > Date: 6 Mar 2002 09:37:42 -0800
> > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> > Subject: Daytona 200 Gathering
> >
> >
> > Who all is planning to go?
> >
> > Laura
> >
> >
> > ________________________________________________
> > PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart.
> > http://www.peoplepc.com
> >
> >
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------
> > mail2web - Check your email from the web at
> > http://mail2web.com/ .
> >
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free
> email!
> http://mail.yahoo.com/
> 
>
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> http://mail2web.com/ .
> 


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From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar  6 16:18:57 2002
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Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 13:18:55 -0800 (PST)
From: Todd Withrow <mtwithrow@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Daytona 200 Gathering
To: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>,
   stephen cutchins <stephen_cutchins@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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--- Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Too bad my weekend is already booked up doing oil
> changes on 4-wheelers and other mundane stuff.
> 
> Horkster

Hey, my Prairie 650 is due for it's first oil change,
you can come by and do it also while you are at it. :)

I guess I'll do that on Fri since I can't ride, found
a slice in my rear tire. :( Gotta wait the new tire to
come in.

Todd W.


=====
AIM: Inf DS

http://www.geocities.com/mtwithrow

-----------------------------------------------------------
Used to be that we "worldproofed" our children. Now society wants to childproof the world.

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From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar  6 16:20:13 2002
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Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 13:20:11 -0800 (PST)
From: stephen cutchins <stephen_cutchins@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Daytona 200 Gathering
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
In-Reply-To: <3C868175.B884C892@comcast.net>
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Never been to the Daytona 200?  Wow, you really should
go.  I have gladly passed on the Bike Week/beach scene
these past few years, but I've been to the 200 seven
years in a row now, and only a wedding in June is
preventing me from going this year.

You just can't beat it - 600 Supersport, 750
Supersport, 125 and 250 Supercross, 250 GP, Pro
Thunder, and a Superbike race that might as well be
three Superbike races it is so long, all on one
glorious weekend!!  Not to mention the vendors, bike
demos (get there way too damned early or forget about
it), and manufacturers showing off their latest and
greatest.

Now I'm depressed :(

--- Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX> wrote:
> stephen cutchins wrote:
> 
> > 12:30 at grevey's in falls church/fairfax area.  I
> > have the same
> > sickness you do, and no cable right now...
> 
> I must have a different sickness.  Daytona is only
> about a 12 hour ride down the road, and I've never
> seen the races in person yet...  :)
> 
> Too bad my weekend is already booked up doing oil
> changes on 4-wheelers and other mundane stuff.
> 
> Horkster
> 
> -- 
> Same old Hork, but new email - horkster@XXXXXX
> 
> Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)
> 
> Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX
> Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 
> 
> '98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer  
> '99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi 
> '82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress


__________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar  6 16:26:50 2002
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Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 13:26:48 -0800 (PST)
From: Chris Weaver <chris_vtr@XXXXXX>
Subject: Off to Spain!
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Well, folks, I'm off to Spain tomorrow for the opening
round of the World Superbike Championship in Valencia!
I won't be checking email tomorrow, however I will
attempt to check it while I'm in Spain if I can find
an occasional cyber-cafe. I'll be back on the 16th.

Hasta la vista etc.,
Chris Weaver

:^)

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From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar  6 16:34:34 2002
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From: <sdave@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Cc: 
Subject: re: The No-Blues  

LAG rants -
Can I just bitch for a second (dave?)

   <DJY>  Hon, to be a bitch of your stature & proficiency, requires 
DECADES of commitment, countless hours of practice, and graduation 
from the Patricia Ireland school of Hen pecking.  If you were to only 
bitch for a second, it would truly be an event of cosmic 
significance...  ;-)   



...Until April 30th, I am living
in a place that I do not have access to cable on my TV...meaning no
racing for me to watch.

  <DJY>  You got a cage, right ?  Hop down to the local Circuit city 
or Worst Buy & pick up a DSS satellite receiver, drive home, point it 
at the starts & sign up for the Speed channel - it comes in a package 
with the 'Fox sports networks' which replay the Speed Channel races.  

'Problem = Solved'

 

Can I just tell you how annoying that is?  How am I supposed to get 
my fix?  

  <DJY>  MUST.......RESIST......

>:-}> 


Dave


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From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar  6 16:44:05 2002
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From: LAURA GRANATO <lgranato@XXXXXX>
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X-Mailer: Web Mail 3.9.3.5
Subject: re: The No-Blues
X-Sent-From: lgranato@XXXXXX

On Wed, 06 March 2002, sdave@XXXXXX wrote:


> 
>    <DJY>  Hon, to be a bitch of your stature & proficiency, requires 
> DECADES of commitment, countless hours of practice, and graduation 
> from the Patricia Ireland school of Hen pecking.  If you were to only 
> bitch for a second, it would truly be an event of cosmic 
> significance...  ;-)   

Oh, PLEASE come to the daytona 200 gathering on Sunday?  I would so love to just...say hi.

> 
> 
>   <DJY>  You got a cage, right ?  Hop down to the local Circuit city 
> or Worst Buy & pick up a DSS satellite receiver, drive home, point it 
> at the starts & sign up for the Speed channel - it comes in a package 
> with the 'Fox sports networks' which replay the Speed Channel races.  
> 
> 'Problem = Solved'

Just like a man...trying to solve the problem.  Well, HON, it's not that simple.  I'm living in a place that I can't do that right now...end of story. :-)  I'm not blonde...I *do* know how to figure things out myself...I was merely ranting about something I have no control over at the moment.

> 
> Can I just tell you how annoying that is?  How am I supposed to get 
> my fix?  
> 
>   <DJY>  MUST.......RESIST......
> 
Oh, you are such a devil...

LAG


________________________________________________
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http://www.peoplepc.com 

From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar  6 16:51:42 2002
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Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 13:51:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: unsubscribe Was: RE: Re: dc-cycles digest for 03/05/02
To: cvkgpena@XXXXXX,
   "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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--- "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
wrote:
> Gimer,
> 
> Fuck you and the horse you rode in on! %^)

heavens!

unsubscribe me from this mailing list please


--
tg

 
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: Tom Gimer t_gimer@XXXXXX
> 
> --- Ulrich Boser <ulrichboser@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I got a ticket last night in DC for parking within 40
> > feet of a curb - what the fuck? How could one park
> > anywhere?
> 
> i think i speak for most of the listers when i request
> that
> you please watch your language.  please remember that
> there
> are innocent little children on this list.... e.g., sean
> jordan, chuck pena, etc.


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From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar  6 17:32:28 2002
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Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 17:32:16 EST
From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: Re: dc-cycles digest for 03/05/02
To: <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>, <t_gimer@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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Shouldn't that be "Fuck you and the BIKE you rode in on?"  ;-)

Scooter (ducking and covering)

In a message dated Wed, 6 Mar 2002  3:42:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" <cvkgpena@XXXXXX> writes:

> Gimer,
> 
> Fuck you and the horse you rode in on! %^)
> 
> Chuck
> 
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: Tom Gimer t_gimer@XXXXXX
> Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:35:01 -0800 (PST)
> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> Subject: Re: dc-cycles digest for 03/05/02
> 
> 
> --- Ulrich Boser <ulrichboser@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > Hello,
> > 
> > I got a ticket last night in DC for parking within 40
> > feet of a curb - what the fuck? How could one park
> > anywhere?
> 
> i think i speak for most of the listers when i request that
> you please watch your language.  please remember that there
> are innocent little children on this list.... e.g., sean
> jordan, chuck pena, etc.
> 
> 
> --
> tg
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
> http://mail.yahoo.com/
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> mail2web - Check your email from the web at
> http://mail2web.com/ .



From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar  6 17:38:11 2002
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Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 17:37:40 EST
From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
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Please go to the dc-cycles.org website and follow the unsubscribing directions.  Geesssshhhhh...you would have though you would have known that one by now.  ;-)

Scooter (j/k Tom.  Couldn't resist.  Honestly.  Tom, put the gun down.  AARRRRRGGGHHH!!!!!)

In a message dated Wed, 6 Mar 2002  4:52:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX> writes:

> --- "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
> wrote:
> > Gimer,
> > 
> > Fuck you and the horse you rode in on! %^)
> 
> heavens!
> 
> unsubscribe me from this mailing list please
> 
> 
> --
> tg
> 
>  
> > Original Message:
> > -----------------
> > From: Tom Gimer t_gimer@XXXXXX
> > 
> > --- Ulrich Boser <ulrichboser@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > I got a ticket last night in DC for parking within 40
> > > feet of a curb - what the fuck? How could one park
> > > anywhere?
> > 
> > i think i speak for most of the listers when i request
> > that
> > you please watch your language.  please remember that
> > there
> > are innocent little children on this list.... e.g., sean
> > jordan, chuck pena, etc.
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
> http://mail.yahoo.com/



From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar  6 22:06:13 2002
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Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 22:15:55 -0500
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Wayne Edelen <wayne@XXXXXX>
Subject: Next mod - ZG Double Bubble
Mime-Version: 1.0
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http://www.blueblackbusa.org/mods/zerogravity/

Installed my ZG Double Bubble tonight.  Looks great, hopefully it will
provide better protection.  I can definately see the gauges better.  I like
the clear over the tinted stocker, too.

Last mod for a while, until I get my motor rebuilt and back in my 'fun' car
 :-)  All this bike stuff is cutting into my racing budget  ;-)

-- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/

From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar  6 22:23:57 2002
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From: Brian Roach <roach@XXXXXX>
Reply-To: roach@XXXXXX
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Daytona Congrats
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 22:23:34 -0500
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On Monday 04 March 2002 11:39, LAURA GRANATO wrote:
> Just wanted to tell everyone to congratulate Keener and Roach for kicking
> some butt down in Daytona.  I know Roach took third in an endurance race
> and Keener won at least one of his class races.  Way to go boys!

Look for Keener in the 200 (and 750 super-sport?) on his GSXR750, and in Pro 
Thunder on his (shameless plug) SpeedWerks built SV700 this weekend on Speed 
Channel. I don't know what his AMA number is this year, maybe he'll shed some 
light on the subject if he fires up the laptop from his hotel in FL again :)

As for our weekend... we performed some essential destructive engineering 
with the Aprilia Cup bikes. We had 72+ hp on both bikes when we left the shop 
for Daytona (stock cup bikes make 60 - 63hp). At about 150mph on the Daytona 
tri-oval,  both bikes seized both cylinders. YeeeeeHaaaaa. Luckily, both of 
us are skilled two stroke riders (translation: the left hand resides on the 
clutch lever at all times) and no one was thrown from their mounts. 

In the post-mortem at the shop today we determined that basically at 150+ mph 
on the banking, the air was much too turbulent for our carb setup and none of 
it was being ingested. No air combined with non-atomized, raw fuel pouring 
onto hot pistons turns out... rather ugly. They did, however, run like bats 
out of hell in the infield portion of the track before blowing up on the 
banking :) We'll have version 2.0 for VIR in April... hopefully the results 
will be better.

Beyond that little adventure, I was asked to ride an FZR400 in the 
lightweight class for the 200 mile endurance race. I had a lot of fun as well 
as getting 3rd in class, so at least the weekend wasn't entirely a bust :)

- Roach

From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar  7 00:10:11 2002
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Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:10:09 -0800 (PST)
From: matthew patton <pattonme@XXXXXX>
Subject: The danger of riding dangerously on the street
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I'm sure all of us are guilty of unsafe and inappropriate riding
behavior on public streets no matter how we might go thru contortions
of logic to justify it. Well, here's a very good read on why we need to
individually take a big bite out of the 'chill' pill.

I love this magazine.

http://venus.13x.com/roadracingworld/issues/feb02/injur.htm

__________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar  7 04:06:18 2002
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From: "rdrdr" <rydin@XXXXXX>
To: "dc-cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>,
   "Keiser, Rudy" <HARRY.R.KEISER.II@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: 97' BMW F650ST
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 22:21:26 -0500
Message-ID: <JAELJAGFKLOFCAAPKADDOELOCHAA.rydin@yahoo.com>
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I'm looking for $3,900.
I'm not sure what the seat height is but I'm just under 5-7 and almost flat
footed on it.

I believe its a very good beginner bike, though its a bit heavy. The power
is controllable and the entire package is very confindence inspiring. Its
also not a bike you necessarily grow out of. I've been riding 10 years and
many thousands of miles (cross country, commuting, a bit of track) and will
probably look into buying a new one once I'm settled in again.

Hope this helps.

Niv

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Keiser, Rudy [mailto:HARRY.R.KEISER.II@XXXXXX]
  Sent: Wed, March 06, 2002 3:50 PM
  To: 'rydin@XXXXXX'
  Subject: RE: 97' BMW F650ST


  Hi.  IM-^Rm looking for a first bike for my wife and sheM-^Rs concerned about
seat height.   Do you know how high the seat is?

  How much are you looking to sell it for?



  thanks,

  Rudy Keiser M-^V Reston, VA

  M-^R01 Suzuki SV650



  -----Original Message-----
  From: rdrdr [mailto:rydin@XXXXXX]
  Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 3:31 PM
  To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
  Cc: rydin@XXXXXX
  Subject: FS: 97' BMW F650ST



  Ladies, gentlemen, and the rest of you... :-)

  Its time to sell. I'm leaving the country VERY shortly and I need to sell
my beloved Beemer.

  Details: Blue 1997' BMW F650ST, approx. 23,000 miles.

  It is well taken care of but has a few scratches. It has a new rear tire
and new chain. Steel braided front brake line, Wudo adjustable brake lever,
heated grips, and a BMW 12V plug. I did most of the work on it myself, I
have all the receipts and records.

  For those not familiar with this bike: Its the street version of the F650
Funduro, about 1" lower suspension with street wheels and tires and a
slightly different look. It has a 1 cylinder Rotax engine. This bike is
great fun. I've ridden it as a commuter and as a tourer. Really friendly,
lots of fun, and very comfortable.

  You can view the bike at:
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/rydin/lst?.dir=/Yahoo!+Photo+Album

  Contact me by email at rydin@XXXXXX or by phone at 301-585-0104.

  I'll be out of town this weekend but I'll try and check my email anyway.
I'll be back Sunday evening.

  Niv




----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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<DIV><SPAN class=3D678430400-07032002><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I'm =
looking for=20
$3,900. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D678430400-07032002><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I'm =
not sure what=20
the seat height is but I'm just under 5-7 and almost flat footed on=20
it.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D678430400-07032002><FONT color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D678430400-07032002><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I =
believe its=20
a&nbsp;very good beginner bike, though its a bit heavy. The power is=20
controllable and&nbsp;the entire package is&nbsp;very confindence =
inspiring. Its=20
also not a bike you necessarily grow out of. I've been riding 10 years =
and many=20
thousands of miles (cross country, commuting, a bit of track) and will =
probably=20
look into buying a new one once I'm settled in =
again.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D678430400-07032002><FONT color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D678430400-07032002><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Hope this=20
helps.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D678430400-07032002><FONT color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D678430400-07032002><FONT color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Niv</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D678430400-07032002></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Keiser, Rudy=20
  [mailto:HARRY.R.KEISER.II@XXXXXX]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wed, March 06, =
2002 3:50=20
  PM<BR><B>To:</B> 'rydin@XXXXXX'<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: 97' BMW=20
  F650ST<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DSection1>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle18><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt">Hi.<SPAN=20
  style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>I=92m looking for a first =
bike for my=20
  wife and she=92s concerned about seat height.<SPAN=20
  style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN><SPAN=20
  style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;</SPAN>Do you know how high the seat =

  is?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle18><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt">How=20
  much are you looking to sell it =
for?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle18><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt"><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]><![endif]>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle18><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt">thanks,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle18><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt">Rudy=20
  Keiser =96 Reston, VA<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle18><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt">=9201=20
  Suzuki SV650<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle18><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt"><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]><![endif]>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DTahoma =
color=3Dblack=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma">-----Original=20
  Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> =
rdrdr=20
  [mailto:rydin@XXXXXX]<BR><B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wednesday, March 06, 2002 =
3:31=20
  PM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>=20
  dc-cycles@XXXXXX<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: =
bold">Cc:</SPAN></B>=20
  rydin@XXXXXX<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: =
bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> FS:=20
  97' BMW F650ST</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
  size=3D3><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]><![endif]>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
color=3Dblack=20
  size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Ladies, =
gentlemen, and the=20
  rest of you... :-)</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
  style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
color=3Dblack=20
  size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Its time to =
sell. I'm=20
  leaving the country VERY shortly and I need to sell my beloved=20
  Beemer.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
  style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
color=3Dblack=20
  size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Details: Blue =
1997' BMW=20
  F650ST, approx. 23,000 miles.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
  style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
color=3Dblack=20
  size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">It is well =
taken care of=20
  but has a few scratches. It has a new rear tire and new chain. Steel =
braided=20
  front brake line, Wudo adjustable brake lever, heated grips, and a BMW =
12V=20
  plug. I did most of the work on it myself, I have all the receipts and =

  records.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
  style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
color=3Dblack=20
  size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">For those not =
familiar with=20
  this bike: Its the street version of the F650 Funduro, about 1" lower=20
  suspension with street wheels and tires and a slightly different look. =
It has=20
  a 1 cylinder Rotax engine. This bike is great fun. I've ridden it as a =

  commuter and as a tourer. Really friendly, lots of fun, and very=20
  comfortable.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
  style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
color=3Dblack=20
  size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">You can view =
the bike at:=20
  <A=20
  =
href=3D"http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/rydin/lst?.dir=3D/Yahoo!+Photo+Album">=
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/rydin/lst?.dir=3D/Yahoo!+Photo+Album</A></SPAN=
></FONT><FONT=20
  color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
  style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
color=3Dblack=20
  size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Contact me by =
email at <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:rydin@XXXXXX">rydin@XXXXXX</A> or by phone at=20
  301-585-0104.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
  style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
color=3Dblack=20
  size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">I'll be out of =
town this=20
  weekend but I'll try and check my email anyway. I'll be back Sunday=20
  evening.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
  style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
color=3Dblack=20
  size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: =
black">Niv</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
  color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
  style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
color=3Dblack=20
  size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]><![endif]>&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
  color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
  style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <DIV class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; TEXT-ALIGN: =
center"=20
  align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblack =
size=3D3><SPAN=20
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  <HR align=3Dcenter width=3D"100%" SIZE=3D1>
  </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><B><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
  color=3Dblack size=3D3><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Do You=20
  Yahoo!?</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: =
black"><BR>Try=20
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>

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From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar  7 08:58:14 2002
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Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 08:57:05 -0500
Subject: Re: Daytona 200 Gathering
To: horkster@XXXXXX
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on US-AMSMTA005/US/INTL(Release 5.0.9
 |November 16, 2001) at 03/07/2002 08:57:22 AM


Damn Hork!  You're making impressive time if Daytona is a 12 hour ride for
you!

--chris





Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX> on 03/06/2002 03:52:05 PM





To:    stephen cutchins <stephen_cutchins@XXXXXX>
cc:    dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject:    Re: Daytona 200 Gathering

--snip--

I must have a different sickness.  Daytona is only
about a 12 hour ride down the road, and I've never
seen the races in person yet...  :)



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From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar  7 09:06:23 2002
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From: Brian Roach <roach@XXXXXX>
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On Thursday 07 March 2002 08:57, you wrote:
> Damn Hork!  You're making impressive time if Daytona is a 12 hour ride for
> you!
>

Actually... that's a pretty easy time to make.  From my old house in 
Alexandria it's 780 miles to the track in Daytona. If you average just over 
60mph including fuel stops (Easy to do since the speed limit all the way down 
is now 65 or 70), you're there in 12 hours no sweat. We make the run from 
here in DE dragging a 5000lbs trailer in just over 14.

- Roach

From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar  7 09:14:12 2002
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Subject: RE: The danger of riding dangerously on the street
Sender: "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
From: "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:11:19 -0500
To: "pattonme@XXXXXX" <pattonme@XXXXXX>,
   "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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Ride fast, die young ... leave a good looking corpse! %^)

Original Message:
-----------------
From: matthew patton pattonme@XXXXXX
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:10:09 -0800 (PST)
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: The danger of riding dangerously on the street


I'm sure all of us are guilty of unsafe and inappropriate riding
behavior on public streets no matter how we might go thru contortions
of logic to justify it. Well, here's a very good read on why we need to
individually take a big bite out of the 'chill' pill.

I love this magazine.

http://venus.13x.com/roadracingworld/issues/feb02/injur.htm

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From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar  7 09:20:17 2002
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Sender: "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
From: "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:20:28 -0500
To: "t_gimer@XXXXXX" <t_gimer@XXXXXX>,
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I think I speak for most of the listers when I say ...

GOOD RIDDANCE! %^)

Now go away or I will taunt you a second time.

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Tom Gimer t_gimer@XXXXXX
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 13:51:40 -0800 (PST)
To: cvkgpena@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: unsubscribe Was: RE: Re: dc-cycles digest for 03/05/02


--- "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
wrote:
> Gimer,
> 
> Fuck you and the horse you rode in on! %^)

heavens!

unsubscribe me from this mailing list please


--
tg

 
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: Tom Gimer t_gimer@XXXXXX
> 
> --- Ulrich Boser <ulrichboser@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I got a ticket last night in DC for parking within 40
> > feet of a curb - what the fuck? How could one park
> > anywhere?
> 
> i think i speak for most of the listers when i request
> that
> you please watch your language.  please remember that
> there
> are innocent little children on this list.... e.g., sean
> jordan, chuck pena, etc.


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From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar  7 09:23:45 2002
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	Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:22:09 -0500
From: Brian Roach <roach@XXXXXX>
Reply-To: roach@XXXXXX
To: "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>,
   "pattonme@XXXXXX" <pattonme@XXXXXX>,
   "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: The danger of riding dangerously on the street
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:21:58 -0500
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On Thursday 07 March 2002 09:11, cvkgpena@XXXXXX wrote:
> Ride fast, die young ... leave a good looking corpse! %^)

I didn't know they did post-mortem plastic surgeory, Chuck. You must have a 
good mortician lined up! :D

::duck::

- Roach

From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar  7 09:32:56 2002
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Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:32:56 -0500
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Hey Roach!

Were the pics of the rider down next to the wall at Road Atlanta you?

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Brian Roach roach@XXXXXX
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:21:58 -0500
To: cvkgpena@XXXXXX, pattonme@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: The danger of riding dangerously on the street


On Thursday 07 March 2002 09:11, cvkgpena@XXXXXX wrote:
> Ride fast, die young ... leave a good looking corpse! %^)

I didn't know they did post-mortem plastic surgeory, Chuck. You must have a 
good mortician lined up! :D

::duck::

- Roach

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From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar  7 09:40:17 2002
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On Thursday 07 March 2002 09:32, cvkgpena@XXXXXX wrote:
> Hey Roach!
>
> Were the pics of the rider down next to the wall at Road Atlanta you?

Nope. That was, however, our WERA endurance B-team bike at the 2001 GNF. The 
rider's name is Kenny and he was unhurt due to the airfence, which was very 
cool. 

- Roach

From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar  7 11:20:17 2002
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Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 11:19:08 -0500
From: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>
Subject: [Fwd: Valve Adjustment Invitation]
To: DC Cycles List <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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Anyone here interested in seeing a valve adjustment
done on a Concours?  Screw-and-locknut valves on an
older Japanese inline 4-cylinder engine, I imagine
some other bikes out there might be similar.  Let
me know offlist if you are interested.

Hork
-- 
Same old Hork, but new email - horkster@XXXXXX

Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)

Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 

'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer  
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi 
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

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Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 11:12:35 -0500
From: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>
Subject: Valve Adjustment Invitation
To: Concours Owners Group <cog@XXXXXX>
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Hi all,

Sorry for the extreme short notice, but I'll
be doing a valve adjustment on the wife's bike
this Saturday.  Weather in Northern Virginia
looks to be wonderful on Saturday, so if anyone
in the general area is interested in seeing the
procedure done first hand, ping me off list for
directions to my place.

It should only take a few hours, and if I've got
time to spare, I'll also be experimenting with
the plastic welder and some makeshift upper fairing
repair.  Joy, joy.  :)

Hork
-- 
Same old Hork, but new email - horkster@XXXXXX

Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)

Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 

'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer  
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi 
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

--Boundary_(ID_cJRsHUskian2pQXbP2kD7Q)--

From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar  7 12:03:33 2002
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From: "Perry Coleman" <perrycoleman@XXXXXX>
To: horkster@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Valve Adjustment Invitation]
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 11:51:47 -0500
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Hork,

You want to use mine for your demonstration? I don't mind... ;^)

Perry

>From: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>
>To: DC Cycles List <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
>Subject: [Fwd: Valve Adjustment Invitation]
>Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 11:19:08 -0500
>
>Anyone here interested in seeing a valve adjustment
>done on a Concours?  Screw-and-locknut valves on an
>older Japanese inline 4-cylinder engine, I imagine
>some other bikes out there might be similar.  Let
>me know offlist if you are interested.
>
>Hork
>--
>Same old Hork, but new email - horkster@XXXXXX
>
>Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)
>
>Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX
>Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth
>
>'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer
>'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi
>'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress
><< message3.txt >>


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar  7 12:42:17 2002
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From: "rdrdr" <rydin@XXXXXX>
To: "dc-cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: 97' BMW F650ST
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 03:22:00 -0500
Message-ID: <JAELJAGFKLOFCAAPKADDEEMACHAA.rydin@yahoo.com>
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$3,900. :-)
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Michael Jordan [mailto:mjordan812@XXXXXX]
  Sent: Wed, March 06, 2002 7:33 PM
  To: rydin@XXXXXX
  Subject: Re: 97' BMW F650ST


  And what would we be looking to receive for this paragon of motorcycle
engineering?

  Michael J.

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: rdrdr
    To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
    Cc: rydin@XXXXXX
    Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 15:31
    Subject: FS: 97' BMW F650ST


    Ladies, gentlemen, and the rest of you... :-)

    Its time to sell. I'm leaving the country VERY shortly and I need to
sell my beloved Beemer.

    Details: Blue 1997' BMW F650ST, approx. 23,000 miles.

    It is well taken care of but has a few scratches. It has a new rear tire
and new chain. Steel braided front brake line, Wudo adjustable brake lever,
heated grips, and a BMW 12V plug. I did most of the work on it myself, I
have all the receipts and records.

    For those not familiar with this bike: Its the street version of the
F650 Funduro, about 1" lower suspension with street wheels and tires and a
slightly different look. It has a 1 cylinder Rotax engine. This bike is
great fun. I've ridden it as a commuter and as a tourer. Really friendly,
lots of fun, and very comfortable.

    You can view the bike at:
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/rydin/lst?.dir=/Yahoo!+Photo+Album

    Contact me by email at rydin@XXXXXX or by phone at 301-585-0104.

    I'll be out of town this weekend but I'll try and check my email anyway.
I'll be back Sunday evening.

    Niv





----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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    Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!

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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D417390608-07032002>$3,900.=20
:-)</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Michael Jordan=20
  [mailto:mjordan812@XXXXXX]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wed, March 06, 2002 =
7:33=20
  PM<BR><B>To:</B> rydin@XXXXXX<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: 97' BMW=20
  F650ST<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>And what would we be looking to =
receive for this=20
  paragon of motorcycle engineering?</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Michael J.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
    <A title=3Drydin@XXXXXX href=3D"mailto:rydin@XXXXXX">rdrdr</A> =
</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Ddc-cycles@XXXXXX=20
    href=3D"mailto:dc-cycles@XXXXXX">dc-cycles@XXXXXX</A> =
</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A =
title=3Drydin@XXXXXX=20
    href=3D"mailto:rydin@XXXXXX">rydin@XXXXXX</A> </DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, March 06, =
2002=20
    15:31</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> FS: 97' BMW =
F650ST</DIV>
    <DIV><BR></DIV>
    <P>Ladies, gentlemen, and the rest of you... :-)</P>
    <P>Its time to sell. I'm leaving the country VERY shortly and I need =
to sell=20
    my beloved Beemer.</P>
    <P>Details: Blue 1997' BMW F650ST, approx. 23,000 miles.</P>
    <P>It is well taken care of but has a few scratches. It has a new =
rear tire=20
    and new chain. Steel braided front brake line, Wudo adjustable brake =
lever,=20
    heated grips, and a BMW 12V plug. I did most of the work on it =
myself, I=20
    have all the receipts and records.</P>
    <P>For those not familiar with this bike: Its the street version of =
the F650=20
    Funduro, about 1" lower suspension with street wheels and tires and =
a=20
    slightly different look. It has a 1 cylinder Rotax engine. This bike =
is=20
    great fun. I've ridden it as a commuter and as a tourer. Really =
friendly,=20
    lots of fun, and very comfortable.</P>
    <P>You can view the bike at: <A=20
    =
href=3D"http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/rydin/lst?.dir=3D/Yahoo!+Photo+Album">=
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/rydin/lst?.dir=3D/Yahoo!+Photo+Album</A></P>
    <P>Contact me by email at <A=20
    href=3D"mailto:rydin@XXXXXX">rydin@XXXXXX</A> or by phone at=20
    301-585-0104.</P>
    <P>I'll be out of town this weekend but I'll try and check my email =
anyway.=20
    I'll be back Sunday evening.</P>
    <P>Niv</P>
    <P><BR>
    <HR SIZE=3D1>
    <B>Do You Yahoo!?</B><BR>Try FREE <A=20
    href=3D"$rd_url/tag/http://mail.yahoo.com/">Yahoo! Mail</A> - the =
world's=20
    greatest free email!</BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar  7 16:03:30 2002
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From: "ROBERSON, Brian" <broberso@XXXXXX>
To: "'DC Cycles List'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: [Fwd: Valve Adjustment Invitation]
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Dale,

Yeah, I was just going to mention, you may want to do a (MY) VFR because of
the sheer number of us present on the list.. But Perry beat me to the
punch...

Brian
99 VFR

-----Original Message-----
From: Dale Horstman [mailto:horkster@XXXXXX] 
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 11:19 AM
To: DC Cycles List
Subject: [Fwd: Valve Adjustment Invitation]


Anyone here interested in seeing a valve adjustment
done on a Concours?  Screw-and-locknut valves on an
older Japanese inline 4-cylinder engine, I imagine
some other bikes out there might be similar.  Let
me know offlist if you are interested.

Hork
-- 
Same old Hork, but new email - horkster@XXXXXX

Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)

Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 

'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer  
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi 
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Dale,</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Yeah, I was just going to mention, you may want to do =
a (MY) VFR because of the sheer number of us present on the list.. But =
Perry beat me to the punch...</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Brian</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>99 VFR</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>From: Dale Horstman [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:horkster@XXXXXX">mailto:horkster@XXXXXX</A>] =
</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 11:19 AM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To: DC Cycles List</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Subject: [Fwd: Valve Adjustment Invitation]</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Anyone here interested in seeing a valve =
adjustment</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>done on a Concours?&nbsp; Screw-and-locknut valves =
on an</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>older Japanese inline 4-cylinder engine, I =
imagine</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>some other bikes out there might be similar.&nbsp; =
Let</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>me know offlist if you are interested.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Hork</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>-- </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Same old Hork, but new email - =
horkster@XXXXXX</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth </FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer&nbsp; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress</FONT>
</P>

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From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar  7 16:05:56 2002
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From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
To: "dc-cycles list" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: MC parking at U.Md.?
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:06:09 -0500
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I have occasion to ride up to the campus next Monday and it may become a
regular thing.  Does the College Park campus have dedicated MC parking?
Most college worth their salt do.  I see MC spots here and there but I can't
tell if you need permits to park there.

Paul in DC
95 VFR - 86 VF500F



From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar  7 16:09:16 2002
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From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
To: "ROBERSON, Brian" <broberso@XXXXXX>
Cc: "dc-cycles list" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
References: <69FF9744D75D8E44BB30C01515D2D5DD6E800A@lmimaila.lmi.org>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Valve Adjustment Invitation]
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:08:53 -0500
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Well, "shim under bucket" rules on the later VFRs.  My old Interceptor has
threaded adjusters.  Wanna tackle that one, Dale?

Paul in DC
95 VFR750F - 86 VF500F
----- Original Message -----
From: "ROBERSON, Brian" <broberso@XXXXXX>
To: "'DC Cycles List'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 4:03 PM
Subject: RE: [Fwd: Valve Adjustment Invitation]


> Dale,
>
> Yeah, I was just going to mention, you may want to do a (MY) VFR because
of
> the sheer number of us present on the list.. But Perry beat me to the
> punch...
>
> Brian
> 99 VFR
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dale Horstman [mailto:horkster@XXXXXX]
> Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 11:19 AM
> To: DC Cycles List
> Subject: [Fwd: Valve Adjustment Invitation]
>
>
> Anyone here interested in seeing a valve adjustment
> done on a Concours?  Screw-and-locknut valves on an
> older Japanese inline 4-cylinder engine, I imagine
> some other bikes out there might be similar.  Let
> me know offlist if you are interested.
>
> Hork


From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar  7 16:13:51 2002
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Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 16:13:14 -0500
From: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Valve Adjustment Invitation]
To: "ROBERSON, Brian" <broberso@XXXXXX>
Cc: "'DC Cycles List'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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> "ROBERSON, Brian" wrote:
> 
> Dale,
> 
> Yeah, I was just going to mention, you may want to do a (MY) VFR because
> of the sheer number of us present on the list.. But Perry beat me to the
> punch...

Oh well, it wouldn't matter, V-4 maintenance tasks frighten me.  :)

My cams are staying put, thankyouverymuch... :)

Hork
-- 
Same old Hork, but new email - horkster@XXXXXX

Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)

Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 

'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer  
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi 
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar  7 16:19:13 2002
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Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 16:18:34 -0500
From: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Valve Adjustment Invitation]
To: Paul Wilson <pawilson@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles list <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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Paul Wilson wrote:
> 
> Well, "shim under bucket" rules on the later VFRs.  My old Interceptor has
> threaded adjusters.  Wanna tackle that one, Dale?

NNBHN.  :)

Really, threaded adjusters on the older 'ceptors?  I thought
that was just a magna/sabre thing.

While I lust for hydraulic valves on my next sport tourer,
threaded adjusters aren't too bad.  Shims hold their clearances
longer, but are a real PITA to actually adjust.

Hork, trying to keep my life shim-free

-- 
Same old Hork, but new email - horkster@XXXXXX

Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)

Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 

'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer  
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi 
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar  7 16:41:50 2002
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From: "Rob Keiser" <robkeiser@XXXXXX>
To: pawilson@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: MC parking at U.Md.?
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 16:30:00 -0500
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Paul,

I'm not sure if they do for visitors, but they do have motorcycle only 
permit parking.  I know this because one afternoon a couple years ago, a 
buddy of mine wanted to ride up there to get a UMD sweatshirt at the student 
union building.

We parked across the street where a line of other bikes were.  We didn't see 
a sign or any decals on the bikes, so we figured it was safe.  No less than 
15 minutes later, we were back at the bikes and guess what was there?  
That's right, a ticket for parking without a permit.  The sign was on the 
building behind us in the midst of some overgrown trees; and campus security 
must have been hiding in the bushes.  Nice.  Anyway, lesson learned.

Depending on how often you need to go there, you might want to get a visitor 
pass or permit just to be safe.

Rob
'98 VFR800


From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
To: "dc-cycles list" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: MC parking at U.Md.?
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:06:09 -0500

I have occasion to ride up to the campus next Monday and it may become a
regular thing.  Does the College Park campus have dedicated MC parking?
Most college worth their salt do.  I see MC spots here and there but I can't
tell if you need permits to park there.

Paul in DC
95 VFR - 86 VF500F




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From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar  7 16:48:37 2002
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Subject: Re: MC parking at U.Md.?
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An MC permit is required to park in the (amazingly ample) MC spots.  At
least where I need to be, there are a lot of spots right by the building,
and it seems that they are fairly common all over campus.  I don't know how
rigorously they check, but if it's anything like their parking police,
they're thorough...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
To: "dc-cycles list" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 4:06 PM
Subject: MC parking at U.Md.?


> I have occasion to ride up to the campus next Monday and it may become a
> regular thing.  Does the College Park campus have dedicated MC parking?
> Most college worth their salt do.  I see MC spots here and there but I
can't
> tell if you need permits to park there.
>
> Paul in DC
> 95 VFR - 86 VF500F
>


From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar  7 16:50:04 2002
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Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 16:49:37 -0500
From: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Daytona 200 Gathering
To: roach@XXXXXX
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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Brian Roach wrote:
> 
> On Thursday 07 March 2002 08:57, you wrote:
> > Damn Hork!  You're making impressive time if Daytona is a 12 hour ride for
> > you!
> >
> Actually... that's a pretty easy time to make.  From my old house in
> Alexandria it's 780 miles to the track in Daytona. If you average just over
> 60mph including fuel stops (Easy to do since the speed limit all the way down
> is now 65 or 70), you're there in 12 hours no sweat. 

I'll admit that's keeping up a pretty hard pace (BBG pace) no stops except 
to exchange fluids (bike and bladder), but yeah, 12 hours is do-able.
Maybe not pleasant, but do-able.  

-- 
Same old Hork, but new email - horkster@XXXXXX

Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)

Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 

'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer  
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi 
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar  7 16:52:04 2002
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Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:52:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: MC parking at U.Md.?
To: Rob Keiser <robkeiser@XXXXXX>, pawilson@XXXXXX,
   dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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when i went there, permits were required... and, apparently
(as rob has shown us) parking enforcement is as vigorous
now as it was back then

purchase a visitor's pass (which likely could be had for
the price of one ticket)...


--- Rob Keiser <robkeiser@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Paul,
> 
> I'm not sure if they do for visitors, but they do have
> motorcycle only 
> permit parking.  I know this because one afternoon a
> couple years ago, a 
> buddy of mine wanted to ride up there to get a UMD
> sweatshirt at the student 
> union building.
> 
> We parked across the street where a line of other bikes
> were.  We didn't see 
> a sign or any decals on the bikes, so we figured it was
> safe.  No less than 
> 15 minutes later, we were back at the bikes and guess
> what was there?  
> That's right, a ticket for parking without a permit.  The
> sign was on the 
> building behind us in the midst of some overgrown trees;
> and campus security 
> must have been hiding in the bushes.  Nice.  Anyway,
> lesson learned.
> 
> Depending on how often you need to go there, you might
> want to get a visitor 
> pass or permit just to be safe.
> 
> Rob
> '98 VFR800
> 
> 
> From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
> To: "dc-cycles list" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
> Subject: MC parking at U.Md.?
> Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:06:09 -0500
> 
> I have occasion to ride up to the campus next Monday and
> it may become a
> regular thing.  Does the College Park campus have
> dedicated MC parking?
> Most college worth their salt do.  I see MC spots here
> and there but I can't
> tell if you need permits to park there.


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From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar  7 17:06:35 2002
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Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 14:06:34 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Daytona 200 Gathering
To: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>, roach@XXXXXX
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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it sounds to me like some folks are comparing riding to
daytona with driving to daytona.... and they're not easily
comparable




--- Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Brian Roach wrote:
> > 
> > On Thursday 07 March 2002 08:57, you wrote:
> > > Damn Hork!  You're making impressive time if Daytona
> is a 12 hour ride for
> > > you!
> > >
> > Actually... that's a pretty easy time to make.  From my
> old house in
> > Alexandria it's 780 miles to the track in Daytona. If
> you average just over
> > 60mph including fuel stops (Easy to do since the speed
> limit all the way down
> > is now 65 or 70), you're there in 12 hours no sweat. 
> 
> I'll admit that's keeping up a pretty hard pace (BBG
> pace) no stops except 
> to exchange fluids (bike and bladder), but yeah, 12 hours
> is do-able.
> Maybe not pleasant, but do-able.  


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From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar  7 17:09:54 2002
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Subject: Re: [Fwd: Valve Adjustment Invitation]
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Dale Horstman" <horkster@XXXXXX>
To: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
Cc: "dc-cycles list" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 4:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Valve Adjustment Invitation]


> Paul Wilson wrote:
> >
> > Well, "shim under bucket" rules on the later VFRs.  My old Interceptor
has
> > threaded adjusters.  Wanna tackle that one, Dale?
>
> NNBHN.  :)
>
> Really, threaded adjusters on the older 'ceptors?  I thought
> that was just a magna/sabre thing.
>
Yup, so do the pre-1990 VFRs.  Some people call those the golden years:
geared cam drive + threaded adjusters.

Could you clean, lube and adjust my chain too for me when I come over, I'd
sure appreciate it.  And don't get grease all over the bike.  I'll bring a
book to read while you do all this.  :)

I already missed the season's first VFR shim changing party.

Paul in DC
95 VFR750F - 86 VF500F



From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar  7 17:15:06 2002
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Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 14:15:04 -0800 (PST)
From: stephen cutchins <stephen_cutchins@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Daytona 200 Gathering
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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--- Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX> wrote:
> it sounds to me like some folks are comparing riding
> to
> daytona with driving to daytona.... and they're not
> easily
> comparable
> 

I agree completely!  Daytona by car in 12 hours is
about right, Daytona by motorcycle in 12 hours is
rough unless you're on a Gold Wing.


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From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar  7 17:42:59 2002
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Subject: Re: Daytona 200 Gathering
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On Thu, 07 March 2002, stephen cutchins wrote:
> > 
> 
> I agree completely!  Daytona by car in 12 hours is
> about right, Daytona by motorcycle in 12 hours is
> rough unless you're on a Gold Wing.

OK, boys, you're turning my thread into something it isn't supposed to be! :)  I just wanted to know who is going to come party with me on Sunday and watch some racing!!!!

Laura


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From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar  7 18:25:19 2002
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Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 15:25:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeannette <gingerdc9@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Daytona 200 Gathering
To: LAURA GRANATO <lgranato@XXXXXX>, stephen_cutchins@XXXXXX
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Tom & I are planning on coming, as long as the puppies
don't explode or anything. ;-)

- Jeannette
  '86 VFR 700F2
  http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/speedway/3081

--- LAURA GRANATO <lgranato@XXXXXX> wrote:
> OK, boys, you're turning my thread into something it
> isn't supposed to be! :)  I just wanted to know who
> is going to come party with me on Sunday and watch
> some racing!!!!
> 
> Laura
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________
> PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart. 
> http://www.peoplepc.com 


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From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar  7 18:38:20 2002
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From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: hcaldwell <hcaldwell@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: speaking of back injuries and protectors
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 18:41:22 -0500
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yep thanks hugh and chirs.

Tha'ts what i was talking about.


 Danny

From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar  7 18:55:26 2002
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From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: "Eric Silberg" <ersilberg@XXXXXX>
Cc: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Braking (sportbikes)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 18:58:29 -0500
Message-ID: <72bd8u8r3vo72g0ei85nfk6k5ikrqo5p8g@4ax.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10203051145280.6376-100000@rhino.spottedcat.com> <031e01c1c46b$04ac9ad0$27a22e82@silbergejw2k>
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On Tue, 5 Mar 2002 12:27:26 -0500, you wrote:

|>Maximum breaking occurs when you settle the bike, adjust the weight bias
|>with your body, then hit a brick wall.  Oh wait, you said braking.
|>Disregard...

hmm what if we had a big enough parachute to deploy and expand out the
bag of a bike and a one for a rider...

or maybe reverse rocket type thrusters... hmmm

I'll let some of the more educated folks expound on these academic
hypothesis...

"couldn't teh bike stop immediately then" ?   : )


Hey it would beat hitting a train or brick wall wouldnt' it? :)

From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar  7 19:09:57 2002
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From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: <sdave@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Braking (sportbikes)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 19:12:59 -0500
Message-ID: <nhbd8u05rmpooaac6aa7pblcmivl6vom7m@4ax.com>
References: <200203051419.g25EJcN09502@atlanta.pop3now.com>
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|>It's my opinion that use of the back brake under emergency braking
|>will cause the bike to sway and wobble and be unsettled,  (and of
|>course possibly low side)
|>   <DJY>  How so ?  

Just been my experience. I suppose the rear wheel dragging.

|>where-as front brake can take over 100% of the braking force (by
|>removing any rear wheel capability), and the bike can stay straight
|>and even.
|>
|>
|>   <DJY>  If your front wheel takes 'over 100% of the braking force' 
|>that would be a front wheel skid.  

"take over"  not "over 100%"  ,  100% as in "all".. take over all of
the braking force.. oh nevermind see now you're just lawyering!
you bastard! <g>

|>  <DJY> Use an infrequently travelled road, or a store parking lot 
|>before anyone gets there...
|>
|>Dave  

Hmm isn't the first suggesting technically a crime under some vague
law?  you of all people should be ashamed of yourself! oh wait you
probably have no shame <G>


Danny
--------------------------
pretend i have witty banter here

From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar  7 19:10:56 2002
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From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: matthew patton <pattonme@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Braking (sportbikes)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 19:13:58 -0500
Message-ID: <t4cd8us5b1f7bnglh7k1fi4i7gv81o1fag@4ax.com>
References: <20020305173249.27840.cpmta@c002.snv.cp.net> <20020305175219.89452.qmail@web20107.mail.yahoo.com>
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On Tue, 5 Mar 2002 09:52:19 -0800 (PST), you wrote:

|>I realize the original topic has been largely discarded, but if you
|>will all turn to your handy-dandy, multi-year MCN index you will find
|>on P.34 of the March 2000 issue a very well written article with
|>scientific, and physics based explanation of what is going on. And not
|>some hearsay or enlightened opinion.

I don't suppose you or anyone could enlighted us who are within the
heathen masses?

From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar  7 19:23:27 2002
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From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: hcaldwell <hcaldwell@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Braking (sportbikes)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 19:26:29 -0500
Message-ID: <28cd8ug305sfeli2us73fg68vfhub5b6m2@4ax.com>
References: <200203051630.g25GUes02071@atlanta.pop3now.com> <Pine.LNX.4.10.10203051145280.6376-100000@rhino.spottedcat.com>
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|>	Minimum stopping distance is achieved by using both
|>brakes. You should apply the rear brake first to settle the
|>bike an make it squat. Then apply the front brake. If you don't
|>agree with me you're a freaking MORON!
|>
|>No thanks necessary just send money,
|>Hugh

Is that what keith code and his likes teach, or are they morons? :)

I don't really quite get the whole "use the rear brake to compress the
front end business."   granted on non sportbikes the rear brake will
do more for you.. but the discussion is about sport bikes.

You can use the front brake to do the front end compression and then
with the same concentration apply more brakes or less and regulate. 

Which seems to me would be a whole lot more effective (and timely)
than trying to  concentrate on  using the right  amount of rear brake,
and concentrate on lettting off the rear brake along with using the
front brake.

you should probably be concentrating on the front brake and your ETA
time/distance upon impact and amount of front brake use.

So maybe the MSF is full of hoooey.  Show me their studies.. their
computer generated specs, their live tests. Just because their an
organization doens't mean we should accept thier conclusions without
seeing their work of how they came to their conclusions.

Danny
bike rider, moron, extroidinare :)

From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar  7 19:31:01 2002
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From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: Chris Weaver <chris_vtr@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Shipping a Motor?
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 19:34:04 -0500
Message-ID: <svcd8ucs2e0lro9amfn20dvesua2kv6aia@4ax.com>
References: <20020305185802.47078.qmail@web11105.mail.yahoo.com>
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I sold an F3 motor once.  I don't remember the destination, but i
believe it was midwest or southern midwest.  I strapped it to a pallet
(as required) and shipped it for all of 75 bux if i recall correctly.

I believe I used united van lines.

Somewhere I had obtained a crate to fit over the engine, and I put
that on t here too, I guess for more stability. I dont' exactly
recall.  Hmm where did I get that crate anyway? I remeber  girl..
oh yea and my friend picked it up for me in VA.. since he works out
there.

I got a pallet from driving through the warehouses and stopped and
asked a guy who worked there if I could have 1.

Even if my memory is off, I don't think it was more than $150.

hmm i wonder if i filed the reciept away...  hmm and i remember some
email correspondance.. maybe i ahve a copy of that.. 

Anyway, do you need me to try to find that info for you or is that a
good enough head start?


Danny

On Tue, 5 Mar 2002 10:58:02 -0800 (PST), you wrote:

|>I'm having a motorcycle motor shipped from California
|>to here, and seller says it's turning out to cost much
|>more than originally planned ($300 rather than
|>$100-120). This seems like far too much and I'm going
|>to see if I can't find a cheaper way to ship it than
|>the seller has found.
|>
|>Has anyone found an inexpensive way to ship small
|>heavy containers such as this?
|>
|>Thanks,
|>Chris Weaver
|>
|>__________________________________________________
|>Do You Yahoo!?
|>Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
|>http://mail.yahoo.com/


From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar  7 19:45:52 2002
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 dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Thu, 07 Mar 2002 19:45:44 -0500 (EST)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 19:46:23 -0500
From: Lisa Goddard <lisagoddard@XXXXXX>
Subject: Niv's bike for sale
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, HARRY.R.KEISER.II@XXXXXX, rydin@XXXXXX
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Hi Harry,

speaking on behalf of Niv I think his bike might be a good choice for your
wife.  I am a shade under 5 feet 6 inches and his bike works well for me.
BMW's also have fantastic ground clearance for the ocasional curb hopping.
It's a good, durable bike with luggage to haul lots of stuff around.  You
might want to check it out.

Lisa Goddard
'95 VFR with Givi to haul lots of stuff around



Hope this helps.

Niv

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Keiser, Rudy [mailto:HARRY.R.KEISER.II@XXXXXX]
  Sent: Wed, March 06, 2002 3:50 PM
  To: 'rydin@XXXXXX'
  Subject: RE: 97' BMW F650ST



  Hi.  IM-^Rm looking for a first bike for my wife and sheM-^Rs concerned about
seat height.   Do you know how high the seat is?

  How much are you looking to sell it for?



From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar  7 20:15:55 2002
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Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 15:21:27 -0500
Subject: DC traffic question
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Ok, I think I know the answer to this one, but not sure, 'cause I saw
someone do it yesterday.  I was sitting in traffic on G St to make a left on
18th and it took me about a half hour to go 3 blocks.
I saw a guy get off his bike and push it down the sidewalk (walking beside
it) for a block and a half, then simply merge back into traffic.  I suspect
that this is illegal, but figured I would ask those more knowledgeable.  

Is walking your bike on the sidewalk legal?

Because if it is legal, it could save a lot of time and headaches.  Also,
lane-splitting wasn't an option... parked cars on left (one way street), and
other cars on the right.

Thanks in advance,
Mike

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nLI=

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From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar  7 20:30:37 2002
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From: "David Thompson" <dthomps1@XXXXXX>
To: <vfr@XXXXXX>, <st1100@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
References: <200203071647.KAA29044@jeeves.cs.wisc.edu>
Subject: SPAM - '94 VFR For Sale
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 20:31:23 -0500
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I'm the proud owner of a VFR840 now, so my '94 VFR750 is up for sale.
Details and photos available at 
http://home.rochester.rr.com/backroads/
I'll throw in my "stone age GPS"  aka enduro roll chart holder for free.

David "Routemeister" Thompson


From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar  7 20:32:11 2002
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From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
To: <Michael.Brocchi@XXXXXX>, <DC-CYCLES@XXXXXX>
References: <FF402BE53275D411BF2700508BF9067703E6854F@ms01.do.treas.gov>
Subject: Re: DC traffic question
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That's a new one on me.  I'm sure it's illegal to ride on the sidewalk,
under power or not.  I'd filter or lane split before I did that.  I can't
see the cops being very tolerant of riding on the sidewalk.

Paul in DC
----- Original Message -----
From: <Michael.Brocchi@XXXXXX>
To: <DC-CYCLES@XXXXXX>
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 3:21 PM
Subject: DC traffic question


> Ok, I think I know the answer to this one, but not sure, 'cause I saw
> someone do it yesterday.  I was sitting in traffic on G St to make a left
on
> 18th and it took me about a half hour to go 3 blocks.
> I saw a guy get off his bike and push it down the sidewalk (walking beside
> it) for a block and a half, then simply merge back into traffic.  I
suspect
> that this is illegal, but figured I would ask those more knowledgeable.
>
> Is walking your bike on the sidewalk legal?
>
> Because if it is legal, it could save a lot of time and headaches.  Also,
> lane-splitting wasn't an option... parked cars on left (one way street),
and
> other cars on the right.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Mike
>



From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar  7 20:33:25 2002
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Don't know if it's legal, but ain't no way my skinny butt is pushing my 750#
Hawg for a block and a half!

Bill

Michael.Brocchi@XXXXXX wrote:

> Ok, I think I know the answer to this one, but not sure, 'cause I saw
> someone do it yesterday.  I was sitting in traffic on G St to make a left on
> 18th and it took me about a half hour to go 3 blocks.
> I saw a guy get off his bike and push it down the sidewalk (walking beside
> it) for a block and a half, then simply merge back into traffic.  I suspect
> that this is illegal, but figured I would ask those more knowledgeable.
>
> Is walking your bike on the sidewalk legal?
>
> Because if it is legal, it could save a lot of time and headaches.  Also,
> lane-splitting wasn't an option... parked cars on left (one way street), and
> other cars on the right.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Mike
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>    Part 1.2       Type: application/ms-tnef
>               Encoding: base64


From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar  7 21:10:03 2002
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Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 21:10:48 -0500
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From: Bruce Brownlee <brownlee_b@XXXXXX>
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Whats all this talk about 'valve adjustments'?
Does it by any chance have anything to do with adjustable pushrods?


From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar  7 21:50:02 2002
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Subject: RE: Braking (sportbikes)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 21:50:22 -0500
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Danny baits -

|>   <DJY>  If your front wheel takes 'over 100% of the braking force'
|>that would be a front wheel skid.

"take over"  not "over 100%"  ,  100% as in "all".. take over all of
the braking force.. oh nevermind see now you're just lawyering!
you bastard! <g>


	<DJY>  Oh yeah... well... you're....  GIMERING ! So there!  ;-)


|>  <DJY> Use an infrequently travelled road, or a store parking lot
|>before anyone gets there...
|>
|>Dave

Hmm isn't the first suggesting technically a crime under some vague
law?  you of all people should be ashamed of yourself! oh wait you
probably have no shame <G>


	<DJY>  Not at all, so long as you're not riding stupidly.  and for the
purposes of braking exercises, you don't need to.  Just go to DC to do
your panic brake exercises, their traffic is a free for all...  just
remember to use the sidewalks ;-)


Dave Yates
'90 ZX11 'Acceleratus Maximus'
LTT customized M96G EII 'Little Friend'
http://www.radix.net/~sdave/


From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar  7 22:09:52 2002
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Bruce Brownlee wrote:

> Whats all this talk about 'valve adjustments'?
> Does it by any chance have anything to do with adjustable pushrods?

Nah, I think it's when you have to wonk the tappet housing with a hammer
to loosen up a stuck lifter.  Got my Gen-Yew-Wine H-D hammer fer that...

Bill


From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar  7 22:41:23 2002
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Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 22:40:41 -0500
From: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Valve Adjustment Invitation]
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Bruce Brownlee wrote:
> 
> Whats all this talk about 'valve adjustments'?
> Does it by any chance have anything to do with adjustable pushrods?

Go back into your hole, you...  :)  <just kidding>

Hork
-- 
Same old Hork, but new email:  horkster@XXXXXX

Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)

Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 

'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer  
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi 
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar  7 23:26:34 2002
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From: rdrdr <rydin@XXXXXX>
Reply-To: rydin@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: MC parking at U.Md.?
To: Rob Keiser <robkeiser@XXXXXX>, pawilson@XXXXXX,
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 Thats rather interesting. I went to UMD for 2.5 years and only had a permit the 1st year. As long as I was parked in the MC parking I never got a ticket. NEVER.
 
Niv
BMW F650ST <-- For Sale if you haven't heard
  Rob Keiser <robkeiser@XXXXXX> wrote: Paul,

I'm not sure if they do for visitors, but they do have motorcycle only 
permit parking. I know this because one afternoon a couple years ago, a 
buddy of mine wanted to ride up there to get a UMD sweatshirt at the student 
union building.

We parked across the street where a line of other bikes were. We didn't see 
a sign or any decals on the bikes, so we figured it was safe. No less than 
15 minutes later, we were back at the bikes and guess what was there? 
That's right, a ticket for parking without a permit. The sign was on the 
building behind us in the midst of some overgrown trees; and campus security 
must have been hiding in the bushes. Nice. Anyway, lesson learned.

Depending on how often you need to go there, you might want to get a visitor 
pass or permit just to be safe.

Rob
'98 VFR800


From: "Paul Wilson" 

To: "dc-cycles list" 
Subject: MC parking at U.Md.?
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:06:09 -0500

I have occasion to ride up to the campus next Monday and it may become a
regular thing. Does the College Park campus have dedicated MC parking?
Most college worth their salt do. I see MC spots here and there but I can't
tell if you need permits to park there.

Paul in DC
95 VFR - 86 VF500F




_________________________________________________________________
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<P> Thats rather interesting. I went to UMD for 2.5 years and only had a permit the 1st year. As long as I was parked in the MC parking I never got a ticket. NEVER.
<P>&nbsp;
<P>Niv
<P>BMW F650ST &lt;-- For Sale if you haven't heard
<P>&nbsp; <B><I>Rob Keiser &lt;robkeiser@XXXXXX&gt;</I></B> wrote: 
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">Paul,<BR><BR>I'm not sure if they do for visitors, but they do have motorcycle only <BR>permit parking. I know this because one afternoon a couple years ago, a <BR>buddy of mine wanted to ride up there to get a UMD sweatshirt at the student <BR>union building.<BR><BR>We parked across the street where a line of other bikes were. We didn't see <BR>a sign or any decals on the bikes, so we figured it was safe. No less than <BR>15 minutes later, we were back at the bikes and guess what was there? <BR>That's right, a ticket for parking without a permit. The sign was on the <BR>building behind us in the midst of some overgrown trees; and campus security <BR>must have been hiding in the bushes. Nice. Anyway, lesson learned.<BR><BR>Depending on how often you need to go there, you might want to get a visitor <BR>pass or permit just to be safe.<BR><BR>Rob<BR>'98 VFR800<BR><BR><BR>From: "Paul Wilson" <PAWILSON@XXXXXX><BR>To: "dc-cycles list" <DC-CYCLES@XXXXXX><BR>Subject: MC parking at U.Md.?<BR>Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:06:09 -0500<BR><BR>I have occasion to ride up to the campus next Monday and it may become a<BR>regular thing. Does the College Park campus have dedicated MC parking?<BR>Most college worth their salt do. I see MC spots here and there but I can't<BR>tell if you need permits to park there.<BR><BR>Paul in DC<BR>95 VFR - 86 VF500F<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________<BR>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><p><br><hr size=1><b>Do You Yahoo!?</b><br>
Try FREE <a href="$rd_url/tag/http://mail.yahoo.com/">Yahoo! Mail</a> - the world's greatest free email!
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From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar  7 23:59:47 2002
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From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: Wayne Edelen <wayne@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Throttlemeister
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 00:02:52 -0500
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How much was it?  throttle locks are nice.






Danny

From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 06:54:09 2002
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At 12:02 AM 3/7/02 -0500, you wrote:
>How much was it?  throttle locks are nice.

$105 from AZ Motorsports.  Got to test it out on the commute to/from work
yesterday.  Combined with my new ZG Double Bubble windscreen, I feel like
I'm driving a rocket powered Gold Wing  :-)

-- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/

From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 08:09:09 2002
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Excellent and creative!  Yes, riding on the sidewalk would be highly illegal.  Walking the bike (perhaps even walking it under power if it's a quiet bike) sounds like a creative solution to cagers causing yet another gridlock.

Chris Norloff


---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Michael.Brocchi@XXXXXX
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 15:21:27 -0500

>Ok, I think I know the answer to this one, but not sure, 'cause I saw
>someone do it yesterday.  I was sitting in traffic on G St to make a left on
>18th and it took me about a half hour to go 3 blocks.
>I saw a guy get off his bike and push it down the sidewalk (walking beside
>it) for a block and a half, then simply merge back into traffic.  I suspect
>that this is illegal, but figured I would ask those more knowledgeable.  
>
>Is walking your bike on the sidewalk legal?
>
>Because if it is legal, it could save a lot of time and headaches.  Also,
>lane-splitting wasn't an option... parked cars on left (one way street), and
>other cars on the right.
>
>Thanks in advance,
>Mike
>
>

From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 09:07:14 2002
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They do run a shuttle bus from the nearby metro station. That would eliminate 
the parking problem. And my brief experience with them is that like most 
universities they are assholes about parking.
But I am not bitter!


John.
PenguinBiker@XXXXXX

From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 09:43:08 2002
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Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 09:42:50 EST
From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: DC traffic question
To: <Michael.Brocchi@XXXXXX>
Cc: <DC-CYCLES@XXXXXX>
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Couldn't tell you whether it was legal or not but, it's certainly a different approach.  Might have to try it one day.  :-)

Scooter

In a message dated Thu, 7 Mar 2002  8:17:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, Michael.Brocchi@XXXXXX writes:

> Ok, I think I know the answer to this one, but not sure, 'cause I saw
> someone do it yesterday.  I was sitting in traffic on G St to make a left on
> 18th and it took me about a half hour to go 3 blocks.
> I saw a guy get off his bike and push it down the sidewalk (walking beside
> it) for a block and a half, then simply merge back into traffic.  I suspect
> that this is illegal, but figured I would ask those more knowledgeable.  
> 
> Is walking your bike on the sidewalk legal?
> 
> Because if it is legal, it could save a lot of time and headaches.  Also,
> lane-splitting wasn't an option... parked cars on left (one way street), and
> other cars on the right.
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> Mike



From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 09:47:27 2002
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Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 09:47:09 EST
From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: DC traffic question
To: <pawilson@XXXXXX>, <michael.brocchi@XXXXXX>,
   <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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According to Michael, he wasn't riding it on the sidewalk.  He was walking beside it.  I know there was a discussion recently regarding m/c parking that was only accessible by going across the sidewalk.  I would think this would be similar.  If mopeds and bicyclists are allowed on the sidewalks, I can't see why a motorcycle being pushed would be any different.  Just my .03. <-- inflation.  :-)

Scooter

In a message dated Thu, 7 Mar 2002  8:34:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX> writes:

> That's a new one on me.  I'm sure it's illegal to ride on the sidewalk,
> under power or not.  I'd filter or lane split before I did that.  I can't
> see the cops being very tolerant of riding on the sidewalk.
> 
> Paul in DC
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Michael.Brocchi@XXXXXX>
> To: <DC-CYCLES@XXXXXX>
> Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 3:21 PM
> Subject: DC traffic question
> 
> 
> > Ok, I think I know the answer to this one, but not sure, 'cause I saw
> > someone do it yesterday.  I was sitting in traffic on G St to make a left
> on
> > 18th and it took me about a half hour to go 3 blocks.
> > I saw a guy get off his bike and push it down the sidewalk (walking beside
> > it) for a block and a half, then simply merge back into traffic.  I
> suspect
> > that this is illegal, but figured I would ask those more knowledgeable.
> >
> > Is walking your bike on the sidewalk legal?
> >
> > Because if it is legal, it could save a lot of time and headaches.  Also,
> > lane-splitting wasn't an option... parked cars on left (one way street),
> and
> > other cars on the right.
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> > Mike
> >



From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 10:02:21 2002
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Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 10:01:51 EST
From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Throttlemeister
To: <wayne@XXXXXX>
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You got their website?  Throttlemeister's website lists them at $130 for my R6.  $147 if I want the larger unit.

Scooter

In a message dated Fri, 8 Mar 2002  6:55:48 AM Eastern Standard Time, Wayne Edelen <wayne@XXXXXX> writes:

> At 12:02 AM 3/7/02 -0500, you wrote:
> >How much was it?  throttle locks are nice.
> 
> $105 from AZ Motorsports.  Got to test it out on the commute to/from work
> yesterday.  Combined with my new ZG Double Bubble windscreen, I feel like
> I'm driving a rocket powered Gold Wing  :-)
> 
> -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/



From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 10:16:42 2002
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Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 10:17:26 -0500
From: Shawn Brand <shawn.brand@XXXXXX>
Subject: double bubble or euro speedscreen?
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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I'd like to get a smoked aftermarket wind screen for my Super Hawk and it's
down to the Zero Gravity double bubble or the Lockhart-Phillips euro
speedscreen. They both provide better wind deflection than the stock screen.
Any major difference in quality or protection?

Shawn


From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 10:20:35 2002
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Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:20:21 EST
Subject: Re: Braking (motorcycles)
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I have sort of been sitting on this trying to decide whether to send it or 
not, obviously I decided to send it, it is long and if you have no desire to 
continue the braking thread <delete now>

Motorcycle accident reports show that most accident involved motorcyclists 
did not know how to turn, swerve or BRAKE. As long as we have new riders on 
this list, including lurkers who may not even have bikes yet it is important 
to give them correct information on riding, like how to turn, swerve, and 
BRAKE.

A couple of things have been added to the discussion since I hammered this 
into my magic box so I will try to deal with them first.

>  You can use the front brake to do the front end compression and then
>  with the same concentration apply more brakes or less and regulate. 
>  Which seems to me would be a whole lot more effective (and timely)
>   than trying to  concentrate on  using the right  amount of rear brake,

We are not talking about the easiest way to stop, requiring the least skill. 
We are talking about saving your ass in an emergency, and that requires the 
fastest stop your _bike_ is capable of. 
As for sport bikes I do understand that under ideal conditions they can stop 
very quickly with the front brake only... I do not give a damn... Ideal 
conditions are rare at best, we are often on rain, oil, sand, coolant, 
squirrel guts and lord knows what else where skidding the front wheel is a 
very real possibility and 100% weight transfer is impossible. The only way to 
have the reflexes and skill to use both brakes under less then ideal 
conditions in an emergency is to use them every time, sport bike or not.

>  So maybe the MSF is full of hoooey.  Show me their studies.. their
>  computer generated specs, their live tests.

The testing _was_ done and it has been done by others since then. The results 
are available to anyone and if I can find my info on them I will send it 
along, but I am sure that it will not matter, someone will say "that was not  
this years bike" or sumsuch. The point is that testing was done with 
recording instruments and riders of various skill levels and the fastest 
stops were with both brakes as I have described.
The MSF curriculum was not created by a bunch of guys sitting around a table 
going "what do you think?" ALL of it is based on the best test and report 
data available at the time, and has been updated repeatedly over time to 
reflect new or more complete data. 

Anyhow...

In a message dated 3/5/2002 10:11:13 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
lgranato@XXXXXX writes:

> I *never* use my back brake, so much so that when I went off the track at 
VIR,
>  I didn't occur to me that using the back brake was the safest choice IN 
THAT 
> SITUATION...therefore, I crashed.

Exactly my point, you do not use the rear brake therefore you did not have 
the _reflexes_ to use it when you needed it.

> You need to figure out what is best for 
> the situation you are in at the time.  

Indeed true again, but you then must have the skill to execute your decision. 
No practice, no skill. That is why you must use both brakes every time. (On 
the street! The race track is another world that does not translate all that 
well to this world.)


>  I will say, from my riding experience...MSF is NOT correct in everything 
they teach.  

True again. BUT MSF is correct on this point, and I back that statement with 
about a half a *million* miles of _street_ riding.

>  as your riding progresses, the theories of riding change and how you apply 
your skills.
 
The theories of riding (the physics of riding) do not change, your skills do.

Full application of the front brake before weight transfer will result in a 
locked front wheel.
Full application of the rear brake after the weight has transferred will 
result in a locked rear wheel.
In other words for full braking you _must _increase pressure on the front 
brake while decreasing pressure on the rear as the weight transfers. No 
matter how skilled you get you cannot break the laws of physics.


Testing has shown that even those of us who use both brakes "simultaneously" 
in fact apply the rear first, braking begins a fraction of a second 
sooner---often the difference between "Kissing" a bumper and smashing into 
it. In addition not using the rear brake *delays* the weight transfer, the 
result being that you cannot apply full front braking as early.

When I first began riding the old wives tale was "Do not use the front brake, 
you will crash."
The current age impaired domestic partners tale seems to be "Do not use the 
rear brake, you will crash."
They are both equally wrong.


John Walters (Long John)
PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Up near DC

Honda ST1100X Pan European
    (With all of the STs all of a sudden the Pan European 
      is now necessary {and I still like it.})
BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles
Honda 1976 CR250M  Motowhat racer


From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 10:28:40 2002
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Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 07:28:33 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: double bubble or euro speedscreen?
To: shawn.brand@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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what is "better" wind deflection?  be careful that you
don't make your riding experience worse.  wind in the chest
is MUCH better than wind in the face.

i've owned 4-5 zero gravity shields..... and have never had
a single problem with fit, finish or function


--- Shawn Brand <shawn.brand@XXXXXX> wrote:
> I'd like to get a smoked aftermarket wind screen for my
> Super Hawk and it's
> down to the Zero Gravity double bubble or the
> Lockhart-Phillips euro
> speedscreen. They both provide better wind deflection
> than the stock screen.
> Any major difference in quality or protection?


__________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 10:32:47 2002
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Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 07:32:46 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Braking (sportbikes)
To: Dave Yates <sdave@XXXXXX>
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--- Dave Yates <sdave@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Danny baits -
> 
> |>   <DJY>  If your front wheel takes 'over 100% of the
> braking force'
> |>that would be a front wheel skid.
> 
> "take over"  not "over 100%"  ,  100% as in "all".. take
> over all of
> the braking force.. oh nevermind see now you're just
> lawyering!
> you bastard! <g>
> 
> 
> 	<DJY>  Oh yeah... well... you're....  GIMERING ! So
> there!  ;-)

i've heard my name used as an expletive before, which was
somewhat inspiring.

it seems that now i've sunken to the level of a lowly
verb....  doesn't that suck.


--
tg

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From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 10:39:10 2002
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From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: unsubscribe Was: RE: Re: dc-cycles digest for 03/05/02
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my unsubscribe request went unanswered.  rather than press
the issue, i think i'll stay.  besides, who would be left
to babysit the non-racers? (we all know lag handles the
racers)


--
tg


--- "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
wrote:
> I think I speak for most of the listers when I say ...
> 
> GOOD RIDDANCE! %^)
> 
> Now go away or I will taunt you a second time.
> 
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: Tom Gimer t_gimer@XXXXXX
> Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 13:51:40 -0800 (PST)
> To: cvkgpena@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> Subject: unsubscribe Was: RE: Re: dc-cycles digest for
> 03/05/02
> 
> 
> --- "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
> wrote:
> > Gimer,
> >
> > Fuck you and the horse you rode in on! %^)
> 
> heavens!
> 
> unsubscribe me from this mailing list please
> 
> 
> --
> tg
> 
> 
> > Original Message:
> > -----------------
> > From: Tom Gimer t_gimer@XXXXXX
> >
> > --- Ulrich Boser <ulrichboser@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > I got a ticket last night in DC for parking within 40
> > > feet of a curb - what the fuck? How could one park
> > > anywhere?
> >
> > i think i speak for most of the listers when i request
> > that
> > you please watch your language.  please remember that
> > there
> > are innocent little children on this list.... e.g.,
> sean
> > jordan, chuck pena, etc.


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From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 11:09:44 2002
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Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 11:09:29 EST
From: LakeSueE@XXXXXX
Subject: Friday night
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Is anyone interested in going on a evening ride through the city or somewhere interesting?  Tonight and Sunday will be the only chances I get to ride this weekend.

Sue


From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 11:13:25 2002
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At 10:38 AM 3/8/2002, you wrote:
>my unsubscribe request went unanswered.  rather than press
>the issue, i think i'll stay.  besides, who would be left
>to babysit the non-racers? (we all know lag handles the
>racers)

You may have anything in the fridge and $15 for the evening.  $3/hr if we 
go after 10pm.  No pay per view.


___________________________________________

     Mike Troutman
         http://www.troutman.org


From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 11:31:05 2002
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	Possibly, what's the plan?

Hugh

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 LakeSueE@XXXXXX wrote:

> Is anyone interested in going on a evening ride through the city or somewhere interesting?  Tonight and Sunday will be the only chances I get to ride this weekend.
> 
> Sue
> 


From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 11:45:43 2002
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On Fri, 08 March 2002, Tom Gimer wrote:

> 
> my unsubscribe request went unanswered.  rather than press
> the issue, i think i'll stay.  besides, who would be left
> to babysit the non-racers? (we all know lag handles the
> racers)
> 
> 
> --
> tg
> 

I don't discriminate racer vs. non-racer...I will take care of all riders alike...but if you want to volunteer for that slot, I'll give it to you. :-)

LAG


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From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 11:48:35 2002
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From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: unsubscribe Was: RE: Re: dc-cycles digest for 03/05/02
To: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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--- Troutman <mike@XXXXXX> wrote:
> At 10:38 AM 3/8/2002, you wrote:
> >my unsubscribe request went unanswered.  rather than
> >press the issue, i think i'll stay.  besides, who would
> >be left to babysit the non-racers? (we all know lag
> >handles the racers)
> 
> You may have anything in the fridge and $15 for the
> evening.  $3/hr if we go after 10pm.  No pay per view.

hide your dirty undies.  i'm a sniffer.  ;)



--
tg

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From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 11:57:00 2002
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From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Friday night
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Which city?  I wouldn't mind going for a nice relaxed evening ride tonight.  Keep me posted.

Scooter

In a message dated Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:12:06 AM Eastern Standard Time, LakeSueE@XXXXXX writes:

> Is anyone interested in going on a evening ride through the city or somewhere interesting?  Tonight and Sunday will be the only chances I get to ride this weekend.
> 
> Sue



From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 11:58:32 2002
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OK.  That's more than we needed to know about you Gimer.  ;-)

Scooter

In a message dated Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:49:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX> writes:

> --- Troutman <mike@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > At 10:38 AM 3/8/2002, you wrote:
> > >my unsubscribe request went unanswered.  rather than
> > >press the issue, i think i'll stay.  besides, who would
> > >be left to babysit the non-racers? (we all know lag
> > >handles the racers)
> > 
> > You may have anything in the fridge and $15 for the
> > evening.  $3/hr if we go after 10pm.  No pay per view.
> 
> hide your dirty undies.  i'm a sniffer.  ;)
> 
> 
> 
> --
> tg
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
> http://mail.yahoo.com/



From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 12:02:36 2002
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TG,

What the hell does it take to get you the f--k off this list???  My foot up your ass?  Don't let the door hit you on the way out. %^)

CP

Original Message:

my unsubscribe request went unanswered.  rather than press
the issue, i think i'll stay.  besides, who would be left
to babysit the non-racers? (we all know lag handles the
racers)

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
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From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 12:21:35 2002
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From: "Rob Keiser" <robkeiser@XXXXXX>
To: shawn.brand@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: double bubble or euro speedscreen?
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 12:21:28 -0500
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Shawn,

I'd don't know anything about the LP's, but I'm very happy with my ZG DB on 
my VFR.  Fit, finish, and tint are all very well done.  IMHO.

The only drawback, is that the bubble's curve is too great to place the 
Smart Tag I used to have mounted on my OEM screen.  Not an issue currently 
since I no longer work in VA, but something to mention.

Rob
'98 VFR800


From: Shawn Brand <shawn.brand@XXXXXX>
Reply-To: shawn.brand@XXXXXX
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: double bubble or euro speedscreen?
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 10:17:26 -0500

I'd like to get a smoked aftermarket wind screen for my Super Hawk and it's
down to the Zero Gravity double bubble or the Lockhart-Phillips euro
speedscreen. They both provide better wind deflection than the stock screen.
Any major difference in quality or protection?

Shawn



_________________________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 12:32:54 2002
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Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:32:53 -0600 (CST)
From: Fish Flowers <fish@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: OT: Cheverly?
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She Who Must Be Obeyed and I are looking to buy a house... and I saw some
pretty nice bikes arranged around Cheverly, MD. Any listers live in
Cheverly? If so, could you contact me off-list? I'd like to pick your
brains about the neighborhood.

Thanks,

Fish.
still helmetless


From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 12:33:24 2002
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Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 12:33:00 EST
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Paul suggested these rides for tonight and I have ridden them all before but would like company if anyone is interested.  We could meet in DC or whereever.

Paul: You could come down the GW Pkwy. to Old Town.  Lots of bikes down at the
waterfront on warm nights.  You could continue down the GW to the traffic
circle at Mount Vernon.  A ride up Beach Drive through the park could be
nice, just watch out for the Bambis.  Hains Point too.



sue



From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 13:23:34 2002
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Subject: Re: Friday night
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 18:23:27 
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sure  i'm available  what's the plan


dan  DC/crystal city



>From: hcaldwell <hcaldwell@XXXXXX>
>To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
>Subject: Re: Friday night
>Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:30:08 -0500 (EST)
>
>
>	Possibly, what's the plan?
>
>Hugh
>
>On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 LakeSueE@XXXXXX wrote:
>
> > Is anyone interested in going on a evening ride through the city or 
>somewhere interesting?  Tonight and Sunday will be the only chances I get 
>to ride this weekend.
> >
> > Sue
> >
>




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From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 13:30:14 2002
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Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 13:28:46 -0500
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I am also interested, a final post stating time and location, once decisions
are made, would help a lot.
Thanks,
Mike

From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 13:51:49 2002
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Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 13:50:01 -0500
From: "William J. Huson" <bhuson@XXXXXX>
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First responder Glenn Dysart carted off the free stuff.  This was stuff
I actually tripped over, wait unitl I start in with the serious cleanout
for more free stuff!

Bill


From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 14:24:46 2002
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From: <sdave@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Cc: 
Subject: re:  OT: Cheverly?

Fish asks -
She Who Must Be Obeyed and I are looking to buy a house... and I saw 
some pretty nice bikes arranged around Cheverly, MD. Any listers live 
in Cheverly? If so, could you contact me off-list? I'd like to pick 
your brains about the neighborhood.  MD has higher motor vehicle 
theft rates than VA, but PG county in particular is a bad place for 
theft, and bike theft especially.  IMHO, there are way too many other 
viable places to live that are safer, cheaper, lower taxes, better 
quality neighborhoods, and just plain nicer to live.  

HTH

Dave


  <DJY>  While I am not a MD resident, nor do I play one on this 
list, I there for most of my life, and my grandparents lived in 
Cheverly.  If you saw a bunch of nice bikes there, I'll bet at least 
one was stolen.  Probably a few...  Cheverly used to be a really nice 
place, but it has gone rapidly down hill, and the surrounding areas 
aren't exactly great neighborhoods.  


Thanks,

Fish.
still helmetless




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From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 14:43:30 2002
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Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:43:28 -0600 (CST)
From: Fish Flowers <fish@XXXXXX>
To: DC-Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: re:  OT: Cheverly?
In-Reply-To: <200203081924.g28JOeD00351@atlanta.pop3now.com>
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On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 sdave@XXXXXX wrote:

> MD has higher motor vehicle theft rates than VA, but PG county in
> particular is a bad place for theft, and bike theft especially.

That may well be true, but sadly we're pretty much tied to PG County for
geographical reasons (SWMBO works at Ft. Meade, I work in Alexandria) --
so we'd like to stay pretty close to 295.

Given the close-to-295, close-to-DC, low-crime theme here, any good
bike-friendly towns to look into? I may as well throw yet another crazy
unattainable variable into the mix...

Fish.
thanks for the response, dave


From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 14:54:42 2002
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Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:56:05 -0500
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, vFR List <vfr@XXXXXX>
From: Justin Lemrow <firblt@XXXXXX>
Subject: new aggressive driving offense in VA
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Don't know if you guys have seen/heard about this one, but here goes:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A61453-2002Mar8.html


1999 VFR 800
Northern VA/Washington DC


From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 15:05:56 2002
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Subject: Re: double bubble or euro speedscreen?
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i have a euro speedscreen. i like it - fit, finish, and tint are good on 
it as well. it's leaps better than the OEM screen. i've never ridden 
with a DB. i'm happy with it.

-john


On Friday, March 8, 2002, at 12:21 PM, Rob Keiser wrote:

> Shawn,
>
> I'd don't know anything about the LP's, but I'm very happy with my ZG 
> DB on my VFR.  Fit, finish, and tint are all very well done.  IMHO.
>
> The only drawback, is that the bubble's curve is too great to place the 
> Smart Tag I used to have mounted on my OEM screen.  Not an issue 
> currently since I no longer work in VA, but something to mention.
>
> Rob
> '98 VFR800
>
>
> From: Shawn Brand <shawn.brand@XXXXXX>
> Reply-To: shawn.brand@XXXXXX
> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> Subject: double bubble or euro speedscreen?
> Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 10:17:26 -0500
>
> I'd like to get a smoked aftermarket wind screen for my Super Hawk and 
> it's
> down to the Zero Gravity double bubble or the Lockhart-Phillips euro
> speedscreen. They both provide better wind deflection than the stock 
> screen.
> Any major difference in quality or protection?
>
> Shawn
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
>
>


From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 15:07:09 2002
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Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:07:07 -0800 (PST)
From: matthew patton <pattonme@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: new aggressive driving offense in VA
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I guess a lot of motorcycle operators had better clean up their act,
then. I see riders riding like this all the time. I'm all for it. Now
all we need is a means of dialing up the police chopper to point out
the loony behaving in a seriously questionable manner.


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From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 15:16:21 2002
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On Fri., 8 Mar 2002, Justin Lemrow wrote:

> Don't know if you guys have seen/heard about this one, but here goes:
>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A61453-2002Mar8.html
>

Real mixed feelings on this one... Its nice to see efforts being made to
discourage aggressive driving, but without specifics in the law, this
becomes another officers judgement ticket, that is essentially
uncontestable.

-jd


From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 15:16:34 2002
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Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:16:16 EST
Subject: Article on street/track safety
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Interesting article from a racer/street rider on safety issues.

http://venus.13x.com/roadracingworld/issues/feb02/injur.htm


John.
PenguinBiker@XXXXXX

From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 15:18:16 2002
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From: <sdave@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Cc: 
Subject: re:  new aggressive driving offense in VA  


Don't know if you guys have seen/heard about this one, but here goes:

<DJY>  Great.  Yet another traffic law.  Sure, that's going to make 
everyone drive better.  All that was needed was for VA police 
agencies to enforce more polite driving by stopping & ticketing 
idiots, left lane turtles and tailgaters.  All of these are 
violations (except for idiocy), but VA refuses to enforce the 'drive 
right pass left law'.  

Did anyone else notice :
weaving between lanes, tailgating, failing to yield to other cars 
when entering a highway, ignoring a red light, passing on the left or 
the shoulder, blocking another driver from passing, speeding or 
stopping on a highway. The driver must also show an intent 
to "harass, intimidate, or obstruct" another person.

  the intent portion is going to be difficult to prove...  

Dave 




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From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 15:21:09 2002
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Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 15:20:37 -0500
From: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: new aggressive driving offense in VA
To: Justin Lemrow <firblt@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, vFR List <vfr@XXXXXX>
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Justin Lemrow wrote:
> 
> Don't know if you guys have seen/heard about this one, but here goes:
> 
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A61453-2002Mar8.html

Last thing we needed, MORE laws when cops can't seem to enforce the
existing ones.  <eyes roll>

I love this:

"The legislators said police officers need tools to punish what amounts to
a 
motorist's state of mind."  

Doesn't that sound like the THOUGHT POLICE???

> House Bill 1342 and Senate Bill 522 allow police to charge motorists with 
> aggressive driving if they are weaving between lanes, tailgating, 
> failing to yield to other cars when entering a highway, ignoring a red light,
> passing on the left or the shoulder, blocking another driver from 
> passing, speeding or stopping on a highway. 

Hmm, why not just charge them with the EXISTING LAWS regarding weaving,
tailgating, failure to yield, running a red light, using the shoulder,
speeding, or stopping on the highway???  If those laws don't have enough
teeth, increase the damned penalties.  Or slap a Reckless on there, VA
seems to be able to hand that charge out like candy.

> And in a case that made headlines around the world, a former Virginia man 
> was convicted last year of felony animal cruelty when he yanked a fluffy 
> white bichon frise from a woman's car and tossed the dog into oncoming 
> traffic after a fender bender.

Wow, sounds like they actually found a charge that stuck.  If the guy
was convicted of felony animal cruelty, I hope he's doing some time in
jail.  WHY DO WE THEN NEED YET ANOTHER LAW?  ENFORCE THE ONES WE ALREADY
HAVE!!!

Sorry to yell, this is just one of my hot-buttons.
Horkster

-- 
Same old Hork, but new email - horkster@XXXXXX

Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)

Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 

'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer  
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi 
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 15:24:00 2002
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Ducati M900 Monster 19994 - 8000 miles, red, well maintained, very
loved, Aftermarket
                pipes, clip-ons, Rennsports, rearsets, sprocket, Corbin
seat, brake and clutch lines,
                clutch cover, mirrors and rear fender kit. Lots of cool
little touches. Won best sounding
                bike at Mid Atlantic Italian Bike Fest All stock parts.
$6500 obo. Located in Maryland/ Metro Washington DC.

Thanks!!
Jay



From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 15:26:16 2002
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In a message dated 3/8/2002 2:55:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
firblt@XXXXXX writes:

> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A61453-2002Mar8.html


I have said this before....

UNDEFINED CATCHALL BULLSHIT EXCUSE FOR ANY COP TO STOP ANYBODY AT ANY TIME. 

<aggressive rant off>

John Walters (Long John)
PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Up near DC

Honda ST1100X Pan European
    (With all of the STs all of a sudden the Pan European 
      is now necessary {and I still like it.})
BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles
Honda 1976 CR250M  Motowhat racer

From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 15:29:59 2002
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I suggest meeting tonight at 7:30 or so.  If you have a preference where, please let me know but I prefer DC and since my apartment is close by, I suggest meeting in front of the Air & Space Museum on the Jefferson Drive (Mall) side at 7:30.  

Happy to rearrange if someone has other preferences.

sue



> Paul suggested these rides for tonight and I have ridden them all before but would like company if anyone is interested.  We could meet in DC or whereever.
> 
> Paul: You could come down the GW Pkwy. to Old Town.  Lots of bikes down at the
> waterfront on warm nights.  You could continue down the GW to the traffic
> circle at Mount Vernon.  A ride up Beach Drive through the park could be
> nice, just watch out for the Bambis.  Hains Point too.
> 
> 
> 
> sue



From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 15:34:47 2002
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From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
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Subject: Re: new aggressive driving offense in VA
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Two excerpts from the article:

The legislators said police officers need tools to punish what amounts to a
motorist's state of mind. However subjective, aggressive behavior routinely
is responsible for more and more serious accidents as drivers with long
commutes and the distraction of cell phones crowd onto roads built for a
fraction of the cars that travel them every day.

House Bill 1342 and Senate Bill 522 allow police to charge motorists with
aggressive driving if they are weaving between lanes, tailgating, failing to
yield to other cars when entering a highway, ignoring a red light, passing
on the left or the shoulder, blocking another driver from passing, speeding
or stopping on a highway. The driver must also show an intent to "harass,
intimidate, or obstruct" another person.

+++++++++++++++++

I'm not sure this is such a great idea, heightening penalties based on
"state of mind."  Why is it better in the eyes of the law to run a red light
due to simple inattention rather than road rage?  Should I get a lesser
ticket for cutting someone off in traffic because I just ate a soporific
cheeseburger and wasn't paying attention rather than if my answer is "I
decided to get that a-hole on the red motorcycle."  If you plank another
vehicle in the process, the result is the same.  The "state of mind"
argument is fashionable now in other arenas, such as in so-called "hate
crimes."   Why is murdering someone for reasons of hate any worse than
killing someone for financial gain?  To me is a slippery slope to punishing
thought rather than behavior.

Paul in DC


----- Original Message -----
From: "Justin Lemrow" <firblt@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>; "vFR List" <vfr@XXXXXX>
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 2:56 PM
Subject: new aggressive driving offense in VA


> Don't know if you guys have seen/heard about this one, but here goes:
>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A61453-2002Mar8.html
>
>
> 1999 VFR 800
> Northern VA/Washington DC
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> The VF/VFR mailing list--see http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~john/vfr-list/
> for subscribe/unsubscribe, policy and archive information.


From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 15:35:35 2002
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Subject: CCS Liscense
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Have any of you CCS racers received your 2002 racing license yet?

-Dave


From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 15:37:04 2002
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From: <sdave@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Cc: 
Subject: Re: new aggressive driving offense in VA  

John made his aggressive intent clear -

I have said this before....

UNDEFINED CATCHALL BULLSHIT EXCUSE FOR ANY COP TO STOP ANYBODY AT ANY 
TIME. 

<aggressive rant off>

  <DJY>  I emailed the NMA after checking out all the 'pro traffic 
cop' legislation that had been proposed in the legislature, and 
allegedly there is a VA chapter, but you wouldn't know it.  There is 
virtually ZERO opposition to this crap in the VA Legislature.  If 
anything, they need to simplify the code...

Dave   





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From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 15:40:58 2002
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Nice in principle, but since police don't seem to ticket tailgaters, unsafe lane changers, and others like that this seems to be just a way to charge aggressive drivers with more offenses AFTER they wreck or hurt someone.

Chris Norloff

---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Justin Lemrow <firblt@XXXXXX>
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:56:05 -0500

>Don't know if you guys have seen/heard about this one, but here goes:
>
>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A61453-2002Mar8.html
>
>
>1999 VFR 800
>Northern VA/Washington DC
>
>

From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 15:40:59 2002
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Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:41:31 -0500 (EST)
From: "Daniel H. Brown" <brown@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: re:  new aggressive driving offense in VA  
In-Reply-To: <200203082018.g28KIA720626@atlanta.pop3now.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.1020308153920.18129B-100000@bonaire.brauhausdc.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


Other people wrote:

> Don't know if you guys have seen/heard about this one, but here goes:
> 
> <DJY>  Great.  Yet another traffic law.  Sure, that's going to make 
> everyone drive better.  All that was needed was for VA police 
> agencies to enforce more polite driving by stopping & ticketing 
> idiots, left lane turtles and tailgaters.  All of these are 
> violations (except for idiocy), but VA refuses to enforce the 'drive 
> right pass left law'.  
> 
> Did anyone else notice :
> weaving between lanes, tailgating, failing to yield to other cars 
> when entering a highway, ignoring a red light, passing on the left or 
> the shoulder, blocking another driver from passing, speeding or 
> stopping on a highway. The driver must also show an intent 
> to "harass, intimidate, or obstruct" another person.
> 
>   the intent portion is going to be difficult to prove...  


Maybe someone who's good at marketing could turn this into an opportunity
to go into a consumer oriented car/bike mounted video camera business. 

--
Dan Brown 
brown@XXXXXX


From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 15:46:19 2002
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From: <sdave@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Cc: 
Subject: Thought police

Paul asks -

The "state of mind" argument is fashionable now in other arenas, such 
as in so-called "hate crimes."  Why is murdering someone for reasons 
of hate any worse than killing someone for financial gain?


  <DJY> Only if the 'object' of the hate crime, or victim, is of 
a 'protected class' of citizens.  And the answer is because they have 
a small, but vocal lobby with an effective public relations 
campaign.  If you oppose hate crimes, you are immediately 'tarred and 
feathered' in the press, by said small vocal minorities as - 
extremists, seperatists, segregationists, bigots, etc... because of 
the stigma that 'label' carries, politicians are loathe to oppose 
such.  


  To me is a slippery slope to punishing thought rather than behavior.

<DJY>  SO?!  Nowhere in the US Constitution, or any state 
Constitution do you have the right to free thought.  Therefore, the 
State has an interest in regulating thought.  Congress can do so 
because thought has a direct impact on interstate commerce, since you 
need to think to be able to cross state lines or ship something 
across state lines.  Thought has repeatedly proven deadly in human 
history, and therefore it is a 'reasonable infringement' for the 
Government to regulate our thought.  What's the problem?

:-( 

Dave 


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From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 16:09:04 2002
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Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 16:08:48 -0500
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: new aggressive driving offense in VA  
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At 03:36 PM 3/8/2002, sdave@XXXXXX wrote:
>I emailed the NMA after checking out all the 'pro traffic
>cop' legislation that had been proposed in the legislature, and
>allegedly there is a VA chapter, but you wouldn't know it.  There is
>virtually ZERO opposition to this crap in the VA Legislature.  If
>anything, they need to simplify the code...

There are two or three active NMA chapters in VA.  The priority has been 
the red light cameras and speed camera.  NMA doesn't have the lobby $ 
required to make much of a legislative difference yet.



___________________________________________
     Mike Troutman
          http://www.troutman.org/vfr

         1997 Honda VFR 750
         AMA ~=~ NMA ~=~ NRA



From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 16:16:24 2002
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On Fri, 08 March 2002, "Dave Cross" wrote:

> 
> Have any of you CCS racers received your 2002 racing license yet?
> 


Nope--not yet.  last year I didn't receive my WERA one until the last race of the season.

Laura


________________________________________________
PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart. 
http://www.peoplepc.com 

From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 16:18:15 2002
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Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 16:17:54 -0500
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Subject: AD bill wording
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Anyone notice this?  (from the post article)

"House Bill 1342 and Senate Bill 522 allow police to charge motorists with 
aggressive driving if they are weaving between lanes, tailgating, failing 
to yield to other cars when entering a highway, ignoring a red light, 
passing on the left or the shoulder, blocking another driver from passing, 
speeding or stopping on a highway. The driver must also show an intent to 
"harass, intimidate, or obstruct" another person."

Since when is passing on the left an offense?



___________________________________________
     Mike Troutman
          http://www.troutman.org/vfr

         1997 Honda VFR 750
         AMA ~=~ NMA ~=~ NRA



From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 16:23:09 2002
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Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 16:22:35 -0500
Subject: Re: new aggressive driving offense in VA
To: horkster@XXXXXX
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on US-AMSMTA005/US/INTL(Release 5.0.9
 |November 16, 2001) at 03/08/2002 04:22:46 PM


C;mon Hork ... you already know the answer to that.  We have taken what
amounts to a lack of tolerance of others on the road, labeled it roadrage
and reported it ad naseum through the media.

Politicians feel they HAVE to address this new critical issue facing
society!!!

Sad, but true,
--chris





Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX> on 03/08/2002 03:20:37 PM





To:    Justin Lemrow <firblt@XXXXXX>
cc:    dc-cycles@XXXXXX
       vFR List <vfr@XXXXXX>
Subject:    Re: new aggressive driving offense in VA

Hmm, why not just charge them with the EXISTING LAWS regarding weaving,
tailgating, failure to yield, running a red light, using the shoulder,
speeding, or stopping on the highway???  If those laws don't have enough
teeth, increase the damned penalties.  Or slap a Reckless on there, VA
seems to be able to hand that charge out like candy.

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From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 16:25:41 2002
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From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
To: "Troutman" <mike@XXXXXX>
Cc: "dc-cycles list" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020308161723.021bf418@mail.wheatintl.com>
Subject: Re: AD bill wording
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:25:33 -0500
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Troutman" <mike@XXXXXX>



> Anyone notice this?  (from the post article)
>
> "House Bill 1342 and Senate Bill 522 allow police to charge motorists with
> aggressive driving if they are weaving between lanes, tailgating, failing
> to yield to other cars when entering a highway, ignoring a red light,
> passing on the left or the shoulder, blocking another driver from passing,
> speeding or stopping on a highway. The driver must also show an intent to
> "harass, intimidate, or obstruct" another person."
>
> Since when is passing on the left an offense?
>
I assumed they meant crossing the double-yellow, but who knows.  Let's see,
if reckless regularly gets pleaded down to "improper driving", aggressive
driving will get pleaded down to what?  Promise not to do it again and
attend "charm school"?

Paul in DC



From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 16:30:29 2002
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Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 16:30:06 EST
From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: AD bill wording
To: <mike@XXXXXX>
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I noticed.  I just wrote it off as a typo.  My read would be "passing on the left <IN/ON> the shoulder".  Seems to make better sense.

Scooter

In a message dated Fri, 8 Mar 2002  4:20:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, Troutman <mike@XXXXXX> writes:

> Anyone notice this?  (from the post article)
> 
> "House Bill 1342 and Senate Bill 522 allow police to charge motorists with 
> aggressive driving if they are weaving between lanes, tailgating, failing 
> to yield to other cars when entering a highway, ignoring a red light, 
> passing on the left or the shoulder, blocking another driver from passing, 
> speeding or stopping on a highway. The driver must also show an intent to 
> "harass, intimidate, or obstruct" another person."
> 
> Since when is passing on the left an offense?
> 
> 
> 
> ___________________________________________
>      Mike Troutman
>           http://www.troutman.org/vfr
> 
>          1997 Honda VFR 750
>          AMA ~=~ NMA ~=~ NRA



From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 16:30:36 2002
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From: <sdave@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Cc: 
Subject: text of AD statute as passed

from leg1.state.va.us

M-' 46.2-868.1. Aggressive driving; penalties. 

A. A person is guilty of aggressive driving if (i) the person 
violates one or more of the following: M-' 46.2-802 (Drive on right 
side of highways), M-' 46.2-804 (Failure to observe lanes marked for 
traffic), M-' 46.2-816 (Following too closely), M-' 46.2-821 (Vehicles 
before entering certain highways shall stop or yield right-of-way), M-' 
46.2-833.1 (Evasion of traffic control devices), M-' 46.2-838 (Passing 
when overtaking a vehicle), M-' 46.2-841 (When overtaking vehicle may 
pass on right), M-' 46.2-842 (Driver to give way to overtaking 
vehicle), M-' 46.2-842.1 (Driver to give way to certain overtaking 
vehicles on divided highway), M-' 46.2-843 (Limitations on overtaking 
and passing), any provision of Article 8 (M-' 46.2-870 et seq.) of 
Title 46.2 (Speed), or M-' 46.2-888 (Stopping on highway); and (ii) 
that person commits an offense in clause (i) with the intent to 
harass, intimidate or obstruct another person. 

B. Aggressive driving shall be punished as a Class 2 misdemeanor. In 
addition, the court may require successful completion of an 
aggressive driving program. 

<DJY>  It seems to be a 'compound' offense - IOW, it requires one of 
several elements AND intent to harass, intimidate or obstruct another 
person...  


Dave


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From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 16:39:46 2002
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From: "Lantech (DCOP)" <lantech.cwd@XXXXXX>
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Subject: RE: new aggressive driving offense in VA
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In keeping with the Bad Driving thread, I'd like to share this particularly
distrubing story.  Not MC related but really messed up anyway.


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&u=/ap/20020308/ap_on_re_
us/hit_and_run_death_7
  cheers,

patti

From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 16:42:49 2002
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From: Wayne Edelen <wayne@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Throttlemeister
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At 10:01 AM 3/8/02 EST, ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote:
>You got their website?  Throttlemeister's website lists them at $130 for
my R6.  $147 if I want the larger unit.
>
>Scooter

www.azmotorsports.com  :-)

-- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/

From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 17:41:17 2002
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At 10:32 AM 3/8/2002, Tom Gimer wrote:
>--- Dave Yates <sdave@XXXXXX> wrote:
> >       <DJY>  Oh yeah... well... you're....  GIMERING ! So
> > there!  ;-)
>
>i've heard my name used as an expletive before, which was
>somewhat inspiring.
>
>it seems that now i've sunken to the level of a lowly
>verb....  doesn't that suck.

Ah, but at least you're intransitive.

-- Larry







From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 17:53:01 2002
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I'm sure it *means* passing on the right, which is allready agin the law.  (Me
being the recipiant of a passing on the right tickee way back in `60 sumpin)

Bill

Troutman wrote:

> Anyone notice this?  (from the post article)
>
> "House Bill 1342 and Senate Bill 522 allow police to charge motorists with
> aggressive driving if they are weaving between lanes, tailgating, failing
> to yield to other cars when entering a highway, ignoring a red light,
> passing on the left or the shoulder, blocking another driver from passing,
> speeding or stopping on a highway. The driver must also show an intent to
> "harass, intimidate, or obstruct" another person."
>
> Since when is passing on the left an offense?
>
> ___________________________________________
>      Mike Troutman
>           http://www.troutman.org/vfr
>
>          1997 Honda VFR 750
>          AMA ~=~ NMA ~=~ NRA


From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 18:13:43 2002
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Received: from [168.103.160.240] by web14608.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 08 Mar 2002 15:13:41 PST
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:13:41 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: panty-sniffing, WAS RE: unsubscribe Was: RE: Re: dc-cycles digest for 03/05/02
To: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX, mike@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
In-Reply-To: <17e.4b78e09.29ba4797@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

oops....i forgot the smiley.  obviously i would never be
involved in something so devious and downright disgusting
as panty-sniffing....


--
tg


--- ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote:
> OK.  That's more than we needed to know about you Gimer. 
> ;-)
> 
> Scooter
> 
> In a message dated Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:49:28 AM Eastern
> Standard Time, Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX> writes:
> 
> > --- Troutman <mike@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > > At 10:38 AM 3/8/2002, you wrote:
> > > >my unsubscribe request went unanswered.  rather than
> > > >press the issue, i think i'll stay.  besides, who
> would
> > > >be left to babysit the non-racers? (we all know lag
> > > >handles the racers)
> > > 
> > > You may have anything in the fridge and $15 for the
> > > evening.  $3/hr if we go after 10pm.  No pay per
> view.
> > 
> > hide your dirty undies.  i'm a sniffer.  ;)


__________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 18:34:32 2002
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From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
Message-ID: <47.196c5963.29baa47e@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:34:22 EST
Subject: Re: Friday night
To: LakeSueE@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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In a message dated 3/8/2002 3:31:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
LakeSueE@XXXXXX writes:


> I suggest meeting tonight at 7:30 or so.  If you have a preference where, 
> please let me know but I prefer DC and since my apartment is close by, I 
> suggest meeting in front of the Air & Space Museum on the Jefferson Drive 
> (Mall) side at 7:30.  
> 
> Happy to rearrange if someone has other preferences.
> 
> sue
> 

Sounds like a plan to me.  I'll see you there.  BTW, what's the (un)planned 
route?

Scooter (2000 r/w/b YZF R6)

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 3/8/2002 3:31:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, LakeSueE@XXXXXX writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I suggest meeting tonight at 7:30 or so. &nbsp;If you have a preference where, please let me know but I prefer DC and since my apartment is close by, I suggest meeting in front of the Air &amp; Space Museum on the Jefferson Drive (Mall) side at 7:30. &nbsp;
<BR>
<BR>Happy to rearrange if someone has other preferences.
<BR>
<BR>sue
<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR>
<BR>Sounds like a plan to me. &nbsp;I'll see you there. &nbsp;BTW, what's the (un)planned route?
<BR>
<BR>Scooter (2000 r/w/b YZF R6)</FONT></HTML>

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From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 18:39:25 2002
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Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:35:49 -0500
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Thomas Jordan <thomasajordan@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Friday night
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="============_-1196491942==_ma============"

--============_-1196491942==_ma============
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Ok.. Where and when is the metting place? I'm coming from Sterling, 
VA, and am interested in coming out...
-- 
--============_-1196491942==_ma============
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<!doctype html public "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<html><head><style type="text/css"><!--
blockquote, dl, ul, ol, li { padding-top: 0 ; padding-bottom: 0 }
 --></style><title>Re: Friday night</title></head><body>
<div><font face="Arial" size="-1">Ok.. Where and when is the metting
place? I'm coming from Sterling, VA</font>, and am interested in
coming out...</div>
<x-sigsep><pre>-- 
</pre></x-sigsep>
</body>
</html>
--============_-1196491942==_ma============--

From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 18:49:31 2002
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From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
Message-ID: <171.9f61b3d.29baa7fc@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:49:16 EST
Subject: Re: Friday night
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In a message dated 3/8/2002 6:40:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
thomasajordan@XXXXXX writes:


> Ok.. Where and when is the metting place? I'm coming from Sterling, VA, and 
> am interested in coming out...
> 

Air and Space Museum.  7:30.

Scooter (2000 r/w/b YZF R6)

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 3/8/2002 6:40:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, thomasajordan@XXXXXX writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Ok.. Where and when is the metting place? I'm coming from Sterling, VA</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">, and am interested in coming out...
<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR>Air and Space Museum. &nbsp;7:30.
<BR>
<BR>Scooter (2000 r/w/b YZF R6)</FONT></HTML>

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From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 18:55:46 2002
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          Mar 2002 18:55:19 -0500 
From: "Gary Foreman" <fj1100@XXXXXX>
To: "'Dc-Cycles'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: My winter TL project is done
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:53:52 -0500
Message-ID: <003501c1c6fc$80afaee0$1606030a@d478406837>
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Winter never really got here this year, and I rode off and on all
winter.  Because of this I got a really late start tearing her down for
the valve adjustment (you pretty much have to strip it naked and remove
the radiators to do it).  I have new rubber, powder-coated wheels, and
Lindemann did my forks with black anodized outers and gold nitrate
sliders.  Went for a ride...the suspension is awesome.  Took the whole
week off to do it right.  Check out the Freestyle Moto Design undertail.

COME ON SUMMER!!!

http://www.gwfweb.com/cycles/gwftlr/gwf00063.jpg
http://www.gwfweb.com/cycles/gwftlr/gwf00064.jpg
http://www.gwfweb.com/cycles/gwftlr/gwf00065.jpg
http://www.gwfweb.com/cycles/gwftlr/gwf00066.jpg


Gary Foreman, TL Owners Club
mailto:gary@XXXXXX
TL Owners Club:   http://www.tl1000.com
TL Owners Board:  http://server5.ezboard.com/btlownersboard
TL Message Board: http://www.voy.com/14718/
Yahoo TL Pit:     http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/tl1000pit


From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 20:20:24 2002
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Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:20:23 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: new aggressive driving offense in VA
To: matthew patton <pattonme@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
In-Reply-To: <20020308200707.93606.qmail@web20106.mail.yahoo.com>
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--- matthew patton <pattonme@XXXXXX> wrote:
> I guess a lot of motorcycle operators had better clean up
> their act,
> then. I see riders riding like this all the time. I'm all
> for it.

good luck trying to prove that a client of mine had the
intent to "harass, intimidate, or obstruct" a driver and
his 3000+ pound vehicle while on his open-air 400-700lb
defenseless motorcycle


> Now all we need is a means of dialing up the police
> chopper to point out
> the loony behaving in a seriously questionable manner.

also a brilliant idea.  that way we could keep the police
choppers in the air, constantly, at $10k per hour (or
whatever the silly friggin figure is), at OUR expense.


--
tg (waking from a nightmare in which i'm a virginia
resident and taxpayer....)

__________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 21:35:45 2002
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From: Boiade@XXXXXX
Message-ID: <12d.db4134e.29bacef7@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 21:35:35 EST
Subject: Re: Braking  (sportbikes)
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MSF is designed for the cruiser rider.  Forget the rear brake until you are a 
real expert rider.  I have been road racing for over 30 years and either on 
the street or track the rear brake has been a dangerous option. If you are 
real good you can use the rear brake to induce a controlled slide in a turn, 
otherwise leave it alone.

From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 21:53:06 2002
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Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 20:43:49 -0500
Subject: Summer riding pants
From: Bob McKeithen <bmckeithen@XXXXXX>
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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I just received what may an interesting alternative to expensive riding
jeans from an outfit called JD American Workwear. They are a very heavy
denim jean with padded leather covered knees and leather covered butt. The
good news is they are on sale for $25 a pair--the bad news is they are going
out of business on 1April. Check the website at http://www.jdamerican.com

Bob


From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar  8 23:08:39 2002
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Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 23:18:35 -0500
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Wayne Edelen <wayne@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Throttlemeister
Cc: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
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At 04:52 PM 3/8/02 -0500, you wrote:
>At 10:01 AM 3/8/02 EST, ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote:
>>You got their website?  Throttlemeister's website lists them at $130 for
>my R6.  $147 if I want the larger unit.
>>
>>Scooter
>
>www.azmotorsports.com  :-)

Here is a link to directions showing how to convert a stock bar end to a
throttle lock -
http://pub31.ezboard.com/fazbiketechfrm2.showMessage?topicID=10.topic

-- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/

From dc-cycles-request Sat Mar  9 00:32:54 2002
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From: SKeener2@XXXXXX
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Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 00:32:42 EST
Subject: Re: CCS Liscense
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In a message dated 3/8/02 3:37:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
dave@XXXXXX writes:


> Have any of you CCS racers received your 2002 racing license yet?

Nope.

Keener

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 3/8/02 3:37:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, dave@XXXXXX writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Have any of you CCS racers received your 2002 racing license yet?</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Nope.<BR>
<BR>
Keener</FONT></HTML>

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From dc-cycles-request Sat Mar  9 00:46:38 2002
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From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
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Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 00:46:26 EST
Subject: Re: Braking  (sportbikes)
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Sorry but there is just no way I can let this one slide.

In a message dated 3/8/2002 9:35:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, Boia de writes:

> MSF is designed for the cruiser rider.  Forget the rear brake until you are 
> a real expert rider.  I have been road racing for over 30 years and either 
on 
> the street or track the rear brake has been a dangerous option. If you are 
> real good you can use the rear brake to induce a controlled slide in a 
turn, 
> otherwise leave it alone.


Absolute unadulterated bullshit!
And a damn good way to get a new rider killed.
The rear brake is not now and never has been dangerous.
I started using it back in 65 and have NEVER had a problem with it.
Again BULLSHIT!

From dc-cycles-request Sat Mar  9 05:33:42 2002
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From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: Fish Flowers <fish@XXXXXX>
Cc: DC-Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: OT: Cheverly?
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 05:37:01 -0500
Message-ID: <lhoj8u4hu15euirpft6877u6grnsseqb1h@4ax.com>
References: <200203081924.g28JOeD00351@atlanta.pop3now.com> <Pine.GSO.4.21.0203081340060.22096-100000@harper.uchicago.edu>
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295 (in MD) sucks for commuting. 2 lanes of slow traffic, half a
shoulder, and people who act like cars on the side of the road are tv
shows.

Cheverly would make her commute a breeze, and be a compramise for you.
The more north you go, the worse your commute will be. The more south
you go, the better for you, but her commute will start to suck if
she's "coming into dc" in her commute.

So I guess if she wears the pants, cheverly it is.  

Cheverly isn't too bad, especially if you live within the main
section.  The section by the apartments is sucky though. 
If you live on that main street or some street off of that, the
neighborhood is good.   if you live off 202 landover road,
the neighborhood will suck. Surrounding landover neighborhoods are
bad. access to 50 and 295 is nice.


Danny
On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:43:28 -0600 (CST), you wrote:

|>On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 sdave@XXXXXX wrote:
|>
|>> MD has higher motor vehicle theft rates than VA, but PG county in
|>> particular is a bad place for theft, and bike theft especially.
|>
|>That may well be true, but sadly we're pretty much tied to PG County for
|>geographical reasons (SWMBO works at Ft. Meade, I work in Alexandria) --
|>so we'd like to stay pretty close to 295.
|>
|>Given the close-to-295, close-to-DC, low-crime theme here, any good
|>bike-friendly towns to look into? I may as well throw yet another crazy
|>unattainable variable into the mix...
|>
|>Fish.
|>thanks for the response, dave
|>


From dc-cycles-request Sat Mar  9 06:12:29 2002
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From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Braking (motorcycles) --> SPORTBIKES
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 06:15:49 -0500
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SPORTBIKES

I have to disagree with what you say, in relationship to SPORTBIKES.
What is your experience with modern day sport bikes?

rear brake usauge will cause the rear wheel to lock up and slide,
causign a wobble, fishtale, low side, or high side.

where as a proper use of the front brake will cause the bike to stop
in the best manner, control and distance. 10 mph or 100 mph.
(anyone who doesn't believe me, go try it)

I don't want to hear "msf does tests".. without the data. 
 on what bikes? I want to see actual data. Show me the studies and the
tests to back up the claims.  Show me proof.

A back wheel provides poor braking at 10 mph or 100 mph.
Compare both to front only braking. It's no contest.
The front brake can do the same "weight shifting" bullcrap theory  the
rear brake can do, and far out perform any rear brake usage.

Also as far as "ideal conditions" most street surfaces are ideal
enough for front brake usage, we do it every day.

 Riders are scanning the road before they get to that section of road,
and then out of no where comes an obstacle, and riders brake hard on
the section of road they already scanned.  If any road contaminants
exist, and one is emergency braking, the front and rear wheel will
probably equally slide out. I see no rear brake benefit.

Also 100% weight transfer is possible. People sometimes flip their
bikes over right before impact. People sometimes slow down so  much
their rear wheel comes off the ground. I've done it, my friends have
done it. It happens.

Remember, we are talkign SPORTBIKES.  I don't mind you giving your
advice to cruiser riders, but let's not give new sport bike riders bad
info. 

For sport bike riders:
 The truth is  rear brake = trouble.  It causes the bike to slide,
wobble, low side, or high side. 

I would reason that using the rear brake to shift weight to the front
is ridiculous. The application of the front brake already shifts the
weight,and if you aren't using the front brake, you've wasted valuable
time.  Plus using the front brake to shift the weight forward also
helps your braking be at the proper pressure to add more pressure.

If application of the rear brake with the front cuased the bike to
actually slow down better, racers would use that technique, and
the fact is, simply, they don't use rear brakes to slow down,
and that back brake theory is wrong for sport bikes.

The front wheel will slip, no matter which brake was used to shift the
weight forward, if the force is over exerted for the traction
available.

Let's cut the bullshit.  In regards to sport bikes:
 front brake = good
 back brake = bad
 a one shot strong grab of any brake front or rear  is bad.
A fast quick yet gradual application fo the front brake is best.

That's my word as an experienced sport bike rider who can apply soley
the front brake hard enough to get the rear wheel off the ground while
braking.  Don't apply cruiser advice to sport bikes.

I am willing to take on any challenges from cruiser riders to see who
can stop in the least amount of space.  I wager not only would my
distances be shorter, but also more controlled.  They have the option
to ride cruiser or sport bikes. I dont' care.

Danny

From dc-cycles-request Sat Mar  9 06:13:24 2002
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From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Braking  (sportbikes)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 06:16:44 -0500
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On Sat, 9 Mar 2002 00:46:26 EST, you wrote:

|>Sorry but there is just no way I can let this one slide.
|>
|>In a message dated 3/8/2002 9:35:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, Boia de writes:
|>
|>> MSF is designed for the cruiser rider.  Forget the rear brake until you are 
|>> a real expert rider.  I have been road racing for over 30 years and either 
|>on 
|>> the street or track the rear brake has been a dangerous option. If you are 
|>> real good you can use the rear brake to induce a controlled slide in a 
|>turn, 
|>> otherwise leave it alone.
|>
|>
|>Absolute unadulterated bullshit!
|>And a damn good way to get a new rider killed.
|>The rear brake is not now and never has been dangerous.
|>I started using it back in 65 and have NEVER had a problem with it.
|>Again BULLSHIT!

I agree with the first poster and say your bullshit is bullshit
itself.

From dc-cycles-request Sat Mar  9 06:19:19 2002
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From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: Michael.Brocchi@XXXXXX
Cc: DC-CYCLES@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: DC traffic question
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 06:22:39 -0500
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Wouldn't it be easier to find an alternative route than that section
of road?

beware of burning someone with your exhaust pipe.

I don't know if it's illegal or not.  If the sidewalk was empty, I'd
either try it or ride on it, if no cops were present. If cops were
present, i'd keep my bike off the sidewalk.

If it was crowded i'd just wait in traffic. (if no cops present)

Also I notice that DC tickets are really pretty effing weak.
people get pulled over for stuff and get fined like 50 bux

Danny

From dc-cycles-request Sat Mar  9 07:31:40 2002
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PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote:

> Sorry but there is just no way I can let this one slide.
>

Nor can I...

> > MSF is designed for the cruiser rider.  Forget the rear brake until you are
> > a real expert rider.  I have been road racing for over 30 years and either
> on
> > the street or track the rear brake has been a dangerous option. If you are
> > real good you can use the rear brake to induce a controlled slide in a
> turn,
> > otherwise leave it alone.
>
> Absolute unadulterated bullshit!
> And a damn good way to get a new rider killed.
> The rear brake is not now and never has been dangerous.
> I started using it back in 65 and have NEVER had a problem with it.
> Again BULLSHIT!

Agreed.   On the street, riding in a  reasonably prudent manner, mere physics
decrees that two pads of rubber is better than one.  It doesn't matter is the
dang machine is a cruiser, dual purpose, sportbike, or anchient standard.  Those
who believe that judicious application of both brakes is dangerous flat don't
know how to ride, end of story, and maybe and end to their spotless health should
they ever encounter a situation where stopping in the shortest distnace possible
is required.

Good grief, ignoring the rear brake is as ludicrious as the deluded folks who
won't touch the front for fear of doing an endo on their head.

Bill


From dc-cycles-request Sat Mar  9 07:39:31 2002
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Subject: Re: Braking (motorcycles) --> SPORTBIKES
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daniel_ex250@XXXXXX wrote:

> SPORTBIKES
>
> I have to disagree with what you say, in relationship to SPORTBIKES.
> What is your experience with modern day sport bikes?

Riden them, never had a problem applying both brakes.  Engineers are
marvelous creatures, they know what works, they install two brakes.

> rear brake usauge will cause the rear wheel to lock up and slide,
> causign a wobble, fishtale, low side, or high side.

That would be OVERUSAGE!   Learn to ride, learn to apply the brakes
instead of jumping on them.

> where as a proper use of the front brake will cause the bike to stop
> in the best manner, control and distance. 10 mph or 100 mph.
> (anyone who doesn't believe me, go try it)

Yes, the front brake is the main source of stopping power.  However, while
doing tight turns in a parking lot situation (looking for that available
space) I use rear only.  Try grabbing that oh-so-wonderful front brake
while your wheel is turned.  El dumpo.

Sniped the remainder of the inane BS...

Bill


From dc-cycles-request Sat Mar  9 09:10:51 2002
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Subject: RE: Braking (motorcycles) --> SPORTBIKES
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 09:11:07 -0500
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Danny opines -

SPORTBIKES

I have to disagree with what you say, in relationship to SPORTBIKES.
What is your experience with modern day sport bikes?

rear brake usauge will cause the rear wheel to lock up and slide,
causign a wobble, fishtale, low side, or high side.


	<DJY> Danny, I like you and all (considering we've never met), but
using the rear brake in and of itself won't do a God Damned thing to
cause you to wreck.  If you ABuse it, maybe.  If you use it STUPIDLY,
perhaps...


where as a proper use of the front brake will cause the bike to stop
in the best manner, control and distance. 10 mph or 100 mph.
(anyone who doesn't believe me, go try it)

I don't want to hear "msf does tests".. without the data.
 on what bikes? I want to see actual data. Show me the studies and the
tests to back up the claims.  Show me proof.


	<DJY>  Pick up a motorcycle magazine.  Doesn't matter which one.  Now,
go to the braking test section.  Please point out to me where it says
anything REMOTELY like 'the back brake is for Shit, so we stopped using
only the front'...  Step up here Danny, we need facts and figures here.


Remember, we are talkign SPORTBIKES.  I don't mind you giving your
advice to cruiser riders, but let's not give new sport bike riders bad
info.

	<DJY>  Danny, all due respect, but you are asserting your opinion as
fact, and that is irresponsible.  If you noticed, Laura said 'what's
worked for me' and 'in my experience'...  At least have the decency,
courtesy & respect for newer riders to not put them in harms way by
making them think that your rear brake diatribe is anything more than
complete, uneducated, moronic, rancid bull shit.


Dave Yates
'90 ZX11 'Acceleratus Maximus'
LTT customized M96G EII 'Little Friend'
http://www.radix.net/~sdave/


From dc-cycles-request Sat Mar  9 09:11:52 2002
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From: "Dave Yates" <sdave@XXXXXX>
To: <daniel_ex250@XXXXXX>, <PenguinBiker@XXXXXX>
Cc: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Braking  (sportbikes)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 09:11:59 -0500
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I agree with the first poster and say your bullshit is bullshit
itself.

	<DJY>  Now THIS is more like the DCC brake threads I remember ;-)  



Dave Yates
'90 ZX11 'Acceleratus Maximus'
LTT customized M96G EII 'Little Friend'
http://www.radix.net/~sdave/ 
 

From dc-cycles-request Sat Mar  9 09:16:56 2002
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Subject: RE: Braking  (sportbikes)
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MSF is designed for the cruiser rider.  Forget the rear brake until you
are a
real expert rider.  I have been road racing for over 30 years and either
on
the street or track the rear brake has been a dangerous option.


	<DJY>  What figures, statistics and F A C T  do you have to back that
up ?  Not your opinion, don't waste the bandwidth if you can't come up
with other than "I know, it is this way."


If you are real good you can use the rear brake to induce a controlled
slide in a turn,
otherwise leave it alone.


	<DJY> It took a while for the chest pounding to begin.  Let's see who's
going to show up with the hard numbers...  I just can't wait for
*someone* to show definitive data that contradicts years of MSF testing
that shows both brakes stop better than either single unit....

Dave Yates


From dc-cycles-request Sat Mar  9 10:19:28 2002
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Jeez... didn't we do the braking thing not 6 months ago?

On my Harley, the rear brake was usefull... all the time. It was a 650lbs 
motorcycle with front brakes that could not cause 100% weight transfer to the 
front wheel, so using the rear brake all the time was very prudent - it was 
actually quite difficult to over use it.

On a sportbike, it is more *difficult* to use the rear brake properly (over 
say, 35 mph), and most people will never master the skill. This is not to say 
that you should or shouldn't try... that's up to the rider. 

The laws of physics say that at the start of your braking the use of the rear 
brake will cause the bike to squat (the swingarm pivots counter-clockwise 
when you apply the rear brake). This lowers the bike's center of gravity, 
which will then make the front brakes work even better because of where the 
weight of the bike is in relation to the front axle.  As you use apply the 
front brake, weight transfers forward and you must decrease your rear brake 
usage to compensate or risk locking up the rear wheel. You have two contact 
patches, each being used for deceleration, so maximum results will be 
achieved.

If you can do the above without locking up to rear the majority of the time, 
my hat is off to you... I can't. On any of the sportbikes I've ridden in the 
last 3 years the rear brake pedal offers little if any feedback, and it's 
very hard to determine just how much pressure you can give it at any point in 
time - especially since you can't focus entirely on that while trying to 
decelerate your bike from a high rate of speed. Add to this that you're using 
a hard soled boot to depress it, and you're pretty much in the dark untill 
the rear starts sliding. 

In a parking lot, or in traffic under 35mph? Sure... I can do it. And as Bill 
said, using the rear brake only is VERY usefull when making 5mph tight turns, 
or a U-turn. 

::shrug:: Theory and practice are rarely the same. I'll stick to the front 
brake only on sportbikes when doing high-speed, straight-line braking. But 
that's my choice, and that at which I've become proficient. Your milage may 
vary.

- Roach 

From dc-cycles-request Sat Mar  9 10:27:59 2002
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Subject: Re: Braking (motorcycles) --> SPORTBIKES
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Now this is fun!

In a message dated 3/9/2002 6:12:43 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
daniel_ex250@XXXXXX writes:

> I have to disagree with what you say, in relationship to SPORTBIKES.
>  What is your experience with modern day sport bikes?
>  

Quite a bit, I spent 8 years as a mechanic after all, and I like them. 


>  rear brake usauge will cause the rear wheel to lock up and slide,
>  causign a wobble, fishtale, low side, or high side.
>  

Again the only answer is BULLSHIT! 
I have ridden sportbikes and always use the rear brakes, I have never had an 
unexpected lock up.
If the brake does lock up IT IS NO BIG DEAL!!!  
I have seen literally thousands of new riders deliberately lock the rear 
wheel and skid, and not one of them has had any problems with control, not 
one has crashed and most say "Can I do it again?"
Beginning rider course (MRC: RSS) braking exercises include:

Stopping with both brakes (always)
Stopping quickly with both brakes
Stopping quickly on command with both brakes
Stopping on a curve with both brakes
Stopping quickly on a curve with both brakes
CONTROLLING REAR WHEEL SKIDS.   

Experienced rider courses which are ridden on your own bike, include all of 
the above but exclude the rear wheel skid for bikes with linked brakes due to 
the danger of _front_ wheel lock up. I have seen hundreds of sportbikes lock 
the rear wheel and skid with not problems at all.

Fear of the rear brake is irrational  A rear wheel skid is easy to control 
(ask ANY MSF graduate) I have in fact, while practicing (on my bike) to 
demonstrate rear wheel lock up, skidded so far that I _literally_ had time to 
think "I wish I had brought a magazine to read." (Brand new pavement, wet, 
new tire.) The point is I was not thinking "Oh Shit, Oh Shit, Oh Shit!!!" I 
was bored.
In emergency I have skidded a rear wheel (No front brake, SURPRISE!!  ) some 
30 or 40ft. on pavement, 4-6 on dirt, and another 8-10 paved, all the time 
curving towards a small dirt hill I was hoping would stop me before I got to 
the rock lined ditch. I do admit at the time I was thinking  "Oh Shit, Oh 
Shit, Oh Shit!!!" But not because of the rear wheel lock up but because I 
donM-bM-^@M-^Yt like crashing into rocks. (I was halfway up the hill before I stopped.)

If you are afraid of rear wheel skids you need to practice them I suggest the 
MSF experienced rider course but if testosterone poisoning  prevents you from 
doing that find yourself someplace and just do it.
Remember thousand upon thousands of virgin riders across the country have had 
no problems controlling rear wheel skids, if they can do it so can you.

Oh MSF is not just for cruiser riders or even cruiser orientated, it was 
founded in the early 70M-bM-^@M-^Ys and was (still is) by the motorcycle manufacturers 
including all of the Japanese brands and Harley. In the 70M-bM-^@M-^Ys not one of the 
Japanese manufacturers was building a cruiser *Not one!* Why would they fund 
a cruiser orientated class?  Current funders include Ducati who as we all 
know only builds cruisers and knows nothing about sportbikes.


John Walters (Long John)
PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Up near DC

Honda ST1100X Pan European
    (With all of the STs all of a sudden the Pan European 
      is now necessary {and I still like it.})
BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles
Honda 1976 CR250M  Motowhat racer

From dc-cycles-request Sat Mar  9 10:29:13 2002
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From: "mobacc" <mobacc@XXXXXX>
To: "DC-Cycles" <DC-Cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Braking (sportbikes)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 10:10:45 -0500
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In DC try the big Carter Barron lots off 16th Street NW (1-1/2 mi no of
Columbia Rd in Rock Creek Park).  Regularly used for driver/rider training.

Bill S. / DC
'99 VN750 --> I swerve for the potholes
Join the AMA.  Help protect my riding fun.


From: "Dave Yates" <sdave@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Braking (sportbikes)

. . . snip snip snip

<DJY>  Not at all, so long as you're not riding stupidly.  and for the
purposes of braking exercises, you don't need to.  Just go to DC to do
your panic brake exercises, their traffic is a free for all...  just
remember to use the sidewalks ;-)


From dc-cycles-request Sat Mar  9 10:32:10 2002
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From: Brian Roach <roach@XXXXXX>
Reply-To: roach@XXXXXX
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Braking (more)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 10:31:48 -0500
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I guess the other thing that should be mentioned... your suspension setup has 
a lot to do with your braking ability as well. It's all about weight.

Too little compression dampning in the front causes front-end dive and rapid 
weight transfer - you'll be staring at the ground as the bike pivots skyward 
over the front axle. Too much can cause the front to lock up or push under 
hard braking.

Yet another factor is *your* weight. Grabbing the tank with your knees and 
not allowing your weight to end up on your wrists (and thus directly onto the 
front tire) prevents 60 - 100lbs of weight transference (depending on your 
size :) ).

As someone said... motorcycling is a lifelong persuit... I think you could do 
this for 50 years and still never learn everthing there is to know.

- Roach

From dc-cycles-request Sat Mar  9 10:42:57 2002
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From: "dannie davis" <danniedavis@XXXXXX>
To: roach@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Braking (more)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 15:42:50 
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wow  this braking thing really is burning up the replys        LOL
but it's a good thing :)


Dan Davis


>From: Brian Roach <roach@XXXXXX>
>Reply-To: roach@XXXXXX
>To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
>Subject: Braking (more)
>Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 10:31:48 -0500
>
>
>I guess the other thing that should be mentioned... your suspension setup 
>has
>a lot to do with your braking ability as well. It's all about weight.
>
>Too little compression dampning in the front causes front-end dive and 
>rapid
>weight transfer - you'll be staring at the ground as the bike pivots 
>skyward
>over the front axle. Too much can cause the front to lock up or push under
>hard braking.
>
>Yet another factor is *your* weight. Grabbing the tank with your knees and
>not allowing your weight to end up on your wrists (and thus directly onto 
>the
>front tire) prevents 60 - 100lbs of weight transference (depending on your
>size :) ).
>
>As someone said... motorcycling is a lifelong persuit... I think you could 
>do
>this for 50 years and still never learn everthing there is to know.
>
>- Roach




_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From dc-cycles-request Sat Mar  9 10:46:17 2002
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From: "mobacc" <mobacc@XXXXXX>
To: "DC-Cycles" <DC-Cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Throttlemeister
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 10:27:30 -0500
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Hmmm.  $105?  Maybe it's fancier than my Universal Vista Cruise lock ($25?)
which has done well for several years.  The old packaging says "fits most
Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha, Suzuki, Moto Guzzi."  Have seen it mentioned from
time to time in catalogs.  Had to be careful about specifying bar diameter
as I recall.

Whatever, my tl has come close to saving my life on  a couple of occasions
when I needed the right hand to clean/adjust gear non-stop.

Bill S. / DC
'99 VN750 --> Bar diameter?  Over 21 isn't it?
Join the AMA.  Help protect my riding fun.



X-Sender: wayne@XXXXXX
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 07:03:59 -0500
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Wayne Edelen <wayne@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Throttlemeister

At 12:02 AM 3/7/02 -0500, you wrote:
>How much was it?  throttle locks are nice.

$105 from AZ Motorsports.  Got to test it out on the commute to/from work
yesterday.  Combined with my new ZG Double Bubble windscreen, I feel like
I'm driving a rocket powered Gold Wing  :-)

-- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/

          _                  _                  _                  _


From dc-cycles-request Sat Mar  9 11:14:36 2002
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From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: MD trailer laws
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 11:17:59 -0500
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Does anyone know what the laws are for MD triailers..

like if it has doulbe axels or electric brakes,  it has to get it's
own insurance?

From dc-cycles-request Sat Mar  9 13:53:46 2002
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Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 13:54:46 -0500
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From: Larry Larson <pltrgyst@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: MD trailer laws
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At 11:17 AM 3/9/2002, you wrote:
>Does anyone know what the laws are for MD triailers..
>
>like if it has doulbe axels or electric brakes,  it has to get it's
>own insurance?

Unless it's changed in the last few years, no. My 24 foot Wells
Cargo for the race cars did not require separate MD insurance;
it was covered by the insurance of the vehicle that pulled it, in
this case my Suburban.

Ditto for my then-wife's horse trailer with electric brakes.

The company was USAA, if that matters.

-- Larry






From dc-cycles-request Sat Mar  9 16:19:58 2002
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Does anyone know if the GMRSX1 and FRSX2 are compatible? I have friends
with the GMRSX1 and I'm considering purchasing the FRSX2 (I'm cheap). The
X1 just seems to have more range than the X2.

Also, where's a good, reputable online place to purchase? MAW has great
prices, but I've heard horror stories from people ordering shit from them.

Thanks!

-- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/

From dc-cycles-request Sat Mar  9 18:44:46 2002
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From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
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Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 18:43:44 EST
Subject: Re: Throttlemeister
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In a message dated 3/8/2002 11:08:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
wayne@XXXXXX writes:


> At 04:52 PM 3/8/02 -0500, you wrote:
> >At 10:01 AM 3/8/02 EST, ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote:
> >>You got their website?  Throttlemeister's website lists them at $130 for
> >my R6.  $147 if I want the larger unit.
> >>
> >>Scooter
> >
> >www.azmotorsports.com  :-)
> 
> Here is a link to directions showing how to convert a stock bar end to a
> throttle lock -
> http://pub31.ezboard.com/fazbiketechfrm2.showMessage?topicID=10.topic
> 
> -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/
> 

Thanks.  I'll probably go with a Throttlemeister.  Not that mechanically 
inclined.  ;-)

Scooter (2000 r/w/b YZF R6)

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 3/8/2002 11:08:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, wayne@XXXXXX writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">At 04:52 PM 3/8/02 -0500, you wrote:
<BR>&gt;At 10:01 AM 3/8/02 EST, ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote:
<BR>&gt;&gt;You got their website? &nbsp;Throttlemeister's website lists them at $130 for
<BR>&gt;my R6. &nbsp;$147 if I want the larger unit.
<BR>&gt;&gt;
<BR>&gt;&gt;Scooter
<BR>&gt;
<BR>&gt;www.azmotorsports.com &nbsp;:-)
<BR>
<BR>Here is a link to directions showing how to convert a stock bar end to a
<BR>throttle lock -
<BR>http://pub31.ezboard.com/fazbiketechfrm2.showMessage?topicID=10.topic
<BR>
<BR>-- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/
<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR>
<BR>Thanks. &nbsp;I'll probably go with a Throttlemeister. &nbsp;Not that mechanically inclined. &nbsp;;-)
<BR>
<BR>Scooter (2000 r/w/b YZF R6)</FONT></HTML>

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From dc-cycles-request Sat Mar  9 19:18:06 2002
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Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 19:27:59 -0500
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From: Wayne Edelen <wayne@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Throttlemeister
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At 10:27 AM 3/9/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Hmmm.  $105?  Maybe it's fancier than my Universal Vista Cruise lock ($25?)
>which has done well for several years.  The old packaging says "fits most
>Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha, Suzuki, Moto Guzzi."  Have seen it mentioned from
>time to time in catalogs.  Had to be careful about specifying bar diameter
>as I recall.

http://store1.yimg.com/I/azmotorsports_1678_3332932

That's the only style vista cruise I've ever seen.  Not something I want on
my sportbike.  The nice thing about the Throttlemeister is that it looks
like any other bar end, which all sportbikes have from the factory.  :-)

-- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/

From dc-cycles-request Sat Mar  9 20:09:33 2002
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Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 20:09:23 EST
From: Boiade@XXXXXX
Subject: Rear Brake
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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<<Absolute unadulterated bullshit!
And a damn good way to get a new rider killed.
The rear brake is not now and never has been dangerous.
I started using it back in 65 and have NEVER had a problem with it.
Again BULLSHIT!>>


Read the "Hurt Report" and you will note that the single largest cause of
single vehicle motorcycle accidents is the use of the rear brake.  The use of
the rear brake on the street, particularly in panic situations, has always
been dangerous.  In fact, motorcycle safety training organizations in Europe
teach youngsters to avoid using the rear brake when they move from bicycles
to motorcycles.

In racing, you can read Keith Code (Twist of the Wrist, etc.) who says the
same same thing.  

In sedate riding on the street (particularly on heavily rear weight bias
cruisers) the rear brake will not cause problems, when used instinctively in
panic situations or in spririted riding on sport bikes it causes many problems. 
Statistically it's a fact, but if you have had no problems with using the
rear brake, you probably have mastered its use in the type of riding you do. 
In nearly 30 years of racing (and I still race) and street riding I haven't had
the confidence in my ability to modulate the rear brake accurately when on
the edge, so I don't use it even in sedate riding to avoid acquiring an
automatic reaction to using it, which could prove disasterous in race
conditions.

Don't know if you've ever raced, but Mr. Roach does and so do I and I think we have the same opinion on rear brake usage.  In fact, most club racers I know have the same opinion.  Some professional racers who spend a tremendous amount of time on the track get very good at using the rear brake for things other than stopping/slowing down. Mick Doohan (many times 500cc GP champion)used a handlebar mounted thumb lever to use the rear brake, for example.  But he didn't use it for slowing down the bike.  He used it to induce a controlled slide at very high speeds, something I'll never try racing.  I'm just not good enough and neither are most club racers.

Anyway, claiming that another opinion, backed up by statistics (the Hurt Report) is BS is a bit harsh, don't you think?

Fred

From dc-cycles-request Sat Mar  9 20:22:47 2002
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From: "William J. Huson" <bhuson@XXXXXX>
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Boiade@XXXXXX wrote:

> <<Absolute unadulterated bullshit!
> And a damn good way to get a new rider killed.
> The rear brake is not now and never has been dangerous.
> I started using it back in 65 and have NEVER had a problem with it.
> Again BULLSHIT!>>
>
> Read the "Hurt Report" and you will note that the single largest cause of
> single vehicle motorcycle accidents is the use of the rear brake.  The use of
> the rear brake on the street, particularly in panic situations, has always
> been dangerous.  In fact, motorcycle safety training organizations in Europe
> teach youngsters to avoid using the rear brake when they move from bicycles
> to motorcycles.
>

I do believe the conclusion of the Hurt Report and Hurt's latest updated opinion was that UNDERUSE of the front brake caused splats, coupled with overuse of the rear brake.

Bill


From dc-cycles-request Sat Mar  9 20:34:22 2002
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From: "Dave Yates" <sdave@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Rear Brake
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 20:33:26 -0500
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<<Absolute unadulterated bullshit!
And a damn good way to get a new rider killed.
The rear brake is not now and never has been dangerous.
I started using it back in 65 and have NEVER had a problem with it.
Again BULLSHIT!>>


Read the "Hurt Report" and you will note that the single largest cause
of
single vehicle motorcycle accidents is the use of the rear brake.


	<DJY> No, that's misuse of rear brake.  John's point, which you
completely & conveniently ignore is that with practice, as you're
supposed to do (but many dont') you'll stop faster using both brakes
appropriately (in proportion).


  The use of
the rear brake on the street, particularly in panic situations, has
always
been dangerous.


	<DJY>  facts ???  back this up.



 In fact, motorcycle safety training organizations in Europe
teach youngsters to avoid using the rear brake when they move from
bicycles
to motorcycles.

In racing, you can read Keith Code (Twist of the Wrist, etc.) who says
the
same same thing.

In sedate riding on the street (particularly on heavily rear weight bias
cruisers) the rear brake will not cause problems, when used
instinctively in
panic situations or in spririted riding on sport bikes it causes many
problems.


	<DJY> But you just said above that the "use of the rear brake on the
street...has always been dangerous"  but here, it doesn't apply to
sedate riding on the street.  Which of the above statements is true, and
which is not?



Don't know if you've ever raced, but Mr. Roach does and so do I and I
think we have the same opinion on rear brake usage.



	<DJY>  Roach said - "Sportbike, it is more *difficult* to use the rear
brake properly (over
say, 35 mph), and most people will never master the skill. This is not
to say
that you should or shouldn't try... that's up to the rider." - and then
he goes on to say that on a sport bike he uses only the front brake
because that's what he's proficient at.  The difference is that Roach is
not asserting his opinion as fact, merely what works for him.



Anyway, claiming that another opinion, backed up by statistics (the Hurt
Report) is BS is a bit harsh, don't you think?


	<DJY>  No more harsh than allowing your years of experience in riding
to cloud your judgement about what you write in a public forum that can
be ready by riders with anywhere from no experience, to a lifetime of
it.  If you are not enough of a rider to be able to use the rear brake
effectively, admit as much, and go about improving yourself...  don't
try to convince everyone else that you're right.  Beginning riders
reading this forum are going to see your (chest pounding) "30 years of
racing" and think that you are a voice of experience.  It's
irresponsible to advise them that "only the front brake is good" without
even attempting to get them to learn how to use both & make an informed
decision...


Dave Yates


From dc-cycles-request Sat Mar  9 21:43:50 2002
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From: Brian Roach <roach@XXXXXX>
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To: "Dave Yates" <sdave@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Rear Brake
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 21:43:11 -0500
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On Saturday 09 March 2002 20:33, Dave Yates wrote:

> 	<DJY>  Roach said - "Sportbike, it is more *difficult* to use the rear
> brake properly (over
> say, 35 mph), and most people will never master the skill. This is not
> to say
> that you should or shouldn't try... that's up to the rider." - and then
> he goes on to say that on a sport bike he uses only the front brake
> because that's what he's proficient at.  The difference is that Roach is
> not asserting his opinion as fact, merely what works for him.

Oh don't get me wrong... I'm just being nice for once. ::grin::

My *opinion* is that 99% of street riders who try and use the rear brake on a 
sportbike in a panic situation will lock up the rear, therefore causing them 
to take longer to stop (sliding sideways is not an optimal way to slow down) 
or to fall. That's called over-use of the rear brake, and it's exactly what 
the hurt report was talking about. If the hypothetical rider had used more 
front and less rear, they'd have stopped.

Also... and this goes back to the racing thing... if using the rear brake on 
a sportbike was usefull... don't you think that *one* professional racer 
would do so?  I mean... it would give them an edge in a braking zone, right? 
No one does. Not one. 

There are two things the rear brake is used for on a racetrack: Causing the 
rear to lose traction and slide (and with the advent of modern rubber and 
chassis technology, this has been reduced to the status of making blocking 
passes up the inside), and when you're in the grass and can't use the front 
without landing on your head.

Watch AMA, SBK, or MotoGP... you will not see one rider use the rear brake to 
decelerate the motorcycle under hard braking. And these are the best riders 
in the world.

Maybe they should take the MSF course ... might make them better riders... :-P

- Roach

From dc-cycles-request Sat Mar  9 22:05:50 2002
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Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 22:05:35 EST
From: Boiade@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: Rear Brake
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<<No more harsh than allowing your years of experience in riding
to cloud your judgement about what you write in a public forum that can
be ready by riders with anywhere from no experience, to a lifetime of
it.  If you are not enough of a rider to be able to use the rear brake
effectively, admit as much, and go about improving yourself...  don't
try to convince everyone else that you're right.  Beginning riders
reading this forum are going to see your (chest pounding) "30 years of
racing" and think that you are a voice of experience.  It's
irresponsible to advise them that "only the front brake is good" without
even attempting to get them to learn how to use both & make an informed
decision...>>

Let me be frank.  You've probably never raced and ride conservatively.  Some inexperienced riders buy sport bikes and instinctively use the rear brake.  This will usually be the cause of their first accident (according to the Hurt Report).  Who is misleading whom?

Come up to Summit Point sometime and watch how we race motorcycles.  You would be surprised how much racing technique applies to spirited street riding.

Anyway, I am convinced that my recommendation on rear brake usage is useful to all who read these posts.  I have three racebikes, get (earn) a racing license and I'll let you race one of them and we'll see how long you stay upright under racing conditions using the rear brake.  I don't think you have a clue what it is like riding on the edge.

Ciao,

Fred



From dc-cycles-request Sun Mar 10 01:44:52 2002
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Subject: Re: Braking (motorcycles) --> SPORTBIKES
From: David Cross <dave@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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> I have ridden sportbikes and always use the rear brakes, I have never had an
> unexpected lock up.

If the rear brake is helping you stop on a Sportbike in a panic/emergency
situation then you aren't using the front brake properly and to its full
potential. I suggest you go to a safe parking look and practice HARD
braking. Or better yet, take your sportbike to Summit Point, come flying out
of turn four at about 90mph downhill and see if you can use your rear brake
to help you get slowed down for turn five. Give the cornerworkers a heads up
before you do so they can be ready.


> If the brake does lock up IT IS NO BIG DEAL!!!

True,  sometimes and for some people, but not all the time for all people.
 
> I have seen literally thousands of new riders deliberately lock the rear
> wheel and skid, and not one of them has had any problems with control, not
> one has crashed and most say "Can I do it again?"

I agree, it is very easy to say "Im going to lock the rear wheel now" and
then control it. However it may be far different in a panic/emergency
situation for a new rider.


> If you are afraid of rear wheel skids you need to practice them I suggest the
> MSF experienced rider course but if testosterone poisoning  prevents you from
> doing that find yourself someplace and just do it.
> Remember thousand upon thousands of virgin riders across the country have had
> no problems controlling rear wheel skids, if they can do it so can you.

On a sportbike, since the rear brake provides virtually zero stopping
assistance in a panic/emergency situation why even use it and force someone
to have to deal with a locked wheel?


Dave


From dc-cycles-request Sun Mar 10 09:44:03 2002
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From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
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Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 09:43:52 EST
Subject: Re: Rear Brake
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In a message dated 3/9/2002 8:11:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, Boiade@XXXXXX 
writes:

> Anyway, claiming that another opinion, backed up by statistics (the Hurt 
> Report) is BS is a bit harsh, don't you think?

Would be if the is what they concluded, but it is not. What the Hurt report 
concluded was that "accident involved motorcyclists typically over braked on 
the rear and under braked on the front." That is one hell of a long way from 
"the rear brake caused the accident." And even further from "the rear brake 
is dangerous donM-bM-^@M-^Yt use it." The suggestion from the Hurt Report was training 
was needed to teach  people how to use their brakes properly. Oh yea, that is 
what MSF has been doing from the mid 70M-bM-^@M-^Ys.

If I was taking a track day training session (I would love to) I would 
happily (not easily) go to front brake only, it is a (or the) proper track 
technique and I do understand the reasons for it. But on the street it is 
simply bad news and I do not think any of the track class sources you cited 
would suggest it is proper technique for everyday street use.

All I object to is the blanket statement that "the back brake is dangerous, 
donM-bM-^@M-^Yt use it" Left unchallenged it could create the impression in new riders 
that "the experts" (us "old" riders) universally agree.
We most assuredly do not.
My work here is done.
Wanna argue about oil again?


John Walters (Long John)
PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Up near DC

Honda ST1100X Pan European
    (With all of the STs all of a sudden the Pan European 
      is now necessary {and I still like it.})
BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles
Honda 1976 CR250M  Motowhat racer

From dc-cycles-request Sun Mar 10 09:55:41 2002
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From: Brian Roach <roach@XXXXXX>
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Subject: More braking ... (you'd think we'd have stopped by now..)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 09:55:14 -0500
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After some more thought... there's a factor no one has mentioned here because 
we've all been talking in absolutes:

Stability.

On a racetrack, say turn 1 at Summit Point,  I slow my TZ250 from about 
150mph to 60mph then turn at max lean with a knee on the ground. I'm using 
only the front brake, and I try to modulate it at the very edge of locking 
up... the rear is unweighted and dancing around (or in the air), the front is 
compressed, and the bars are twitching as the front tries to come out from 
under you. On top of this... you're fully committed - you are not going to 
change direction while doing this.

This is not exactly something you want to do on the street. 

With enough care, use of both brakes provides a stable and controlled stop, 
even on a sportbike. On the street, 9 times out of 10 this is probably more 
important than raw deceleration.  If you're doing everything else you're 
supposed to (looking ahead, scanning for danger, etc), this may be a better 
route to take. You're probably using a lot less front brake than you could 
be and your full stopping distance will be increased, but the trade off is 
the aforementioned stability in keeping the rear nice and planted. 

Just some more kindling on the fire, really :)
- Roach

From dc-cycles-request Sun Mar 10 10:09:43 2002
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From: "Dave Yates" <sdave@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Rear Brake
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 10:08:23 -0500
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Let me be frank.  You've probably never raced and ride conservatively.
Some inexperienced riders buy sport bikes and instinctively use the rear
brake.  This will usually be the cause of their first accident
(according to the Hurt Report).  Who is misleading whom?


	<DJY>  Now there's the chest thumping "I know more than you simply
because I'm Fred" we know :-)



Come up to Summit Point sometime and watch how we race motorcycles.  You
would be surprised how much racing technique applies to spirited street
riding.


	<DJY>  BTDTGTTS.  raced my cage at summit point.  I've Auto-x'd, and
nobody would say I ride or drive conservatively.  I've also managed low
tens on my (admittedly that was 90% bike, 10% rider) easily 9 second
bike (in the 1/4 mile)..


Anyway, I am convinced that my recommendation on rear brake usage is
useful to all who read these posts.


	<DJY>  That's better, at least here, you back your assertion(s).  I
respect that.  I disagree with it entirely, because you've proven that
you have no real facts to back them up but at least you stand behind
them.


  I have three racebikes, get (earn) a racing license and I'll let you
race one of them and we'll see how long you stay upright under racing
conditions using the rear brake.  I don't think you have a clue what it
is like riding on the edge.


	<DJY> Thanks for the offer, Fred... actually it was more of a dare...
I won't have time to do that this year.  And honestly, I don't know
what's involved in getting a race license for the various race classes
in which I could ride a bike at summit.  I'll save this mail, and when I
do have the time to get involved in bike racing then we'll talk.  In the
meantime, I will continue to proficiently operate both brakes on my
bike, as I have done since day one.


Seems to me that all this talk of rear brakes being useless would easily
be backed up by all the Hodas with LBS showing up in 'rear brake wadding
accidents'....   Has this been happening (are the LBS bikes wrecking in
higher proportion than non LBS) ?



Dave Yates
'90 ZX11 'Acceleratus Maximus'
LTT customized M96G EII 'Little Friend'
http://www.radix.net/~sdave/


From dc-cycles-request Sun Mar 10 13:31:58 2002
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From: Wayne Edelen <wayne@XXXXXX>
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Bill - DO NOT LOOK AT THESE PICS!  They contain pictures of a clean bike.
These pics could cause irrepairable damage to your psychological
condition!!  :-)

Everyone else... I finally got the time to clean my Busa  :-)  Also took
off the warning stickers and reflectors.  I decided to blow off a few pics
with the digi camera - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/031002/

750+ miles on the bike so far.  Damn I love this *winter* weather  ;-)

-- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/

From dc-cycles-request Sun Mar 10 15:02:18 2002
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Wayne Edelen wrote:

> Bill - DO NOT LOOK AT THESE PICS!  They contain pictures of a clean bike.
> These pics could cause irrepairable damage to your psychological
> condition!!  :-)

Nice ipcs!  Nice blue color, my fav.  Almost the same blue I painted my `58
Mopar ragtop with - a zillion coats of lauquer.  I washed that car everytime I
took out a new girl, a chore that encouraged me to seek long term
relationships :-)

Bill
married, which means I rarely get to play with the hose, so to speak...


From dc-cycles-request Sun Mar 10 16:55:55 2002
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At 03:00 PM 3/10/02 -0500, William J. Huson wrote:
>Wayne Edelen wrote:
>
>> Bill - DO NOT LOOK AT THESE PICS!  They contain pictures of a clean bike.
>> These pics could cause irrepairable damage to your psychological
>> condition!!  :-)
>
>Nice ipcs!  Nice blue color, my fav.  Almost the same blue I painted my `58

Thanks, Bill.  You can't see it in the pics, but the black has blue
metallic flakes in it, very nice  :-)

>Mopar ragtop with - a zillion coats of lauquer.  I washed that car
everytime I
>took out a new girl, a chore that encouraged me to seek long term
>relationships :-)

ha!

>Bill
>married, which means I rarely get to play with the hose, so to speak...

ewf, TMI  ;-)

-- Wayne

From dc-cycles-request Sun Mar 10 18:18:42 2002
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Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:21:44 -0800
From: "Steven C. Di Pietro" <stevied65@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Rear Brake
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Hi all,
            I'd bet that if rear brake usage was unnecessary or dangerous, that racers would be removing the rear brake system to save weight, and bike manufacturers wouldn't add them to improve profits and reduce lawsuits.
    I'm sure that billions of dollars have been spent researching the use of the rear brakes, and bikes today wouldn't have 'em if they weren't needed.

    Shameless plug follows:

        Got a Suzuki? Join the Suzuki Owners Club! Membership rates start at only $1.00 a year!

                                    http://www.soc-usa.org



Steven C. Di Pietro
Assistant National Director
National Marketing Coordinator
Suzuki Owners Club USA
142 Circle Road
Pasadena Md. 21122-6036
http://www.soc-usa.org




From dc-cycles-request Sun Mar 10 19:07:49 2002
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Subject: Re: Rear Brake
From: David Cross <dave@XXXXXX>
To: "Steven C. Di Pietro" <stevied65@XXXXXX>
CC: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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> 
> Hi all,
>           I'd bet that if rear brake usage was unnecessary or dangerous, that
> racers would be removing the rear brake system to save weight, and bike

Most production based racing rules require that the bikes be kept equipped
similar to their street based bikes.

I donM-9t think anyone said rear brake usage was unnecessary or dangerous in
all situations, only panic/emegency situations on sportbikes. It's important
to note that distinction.

Racers need a rear brake for situations such as if they ever go off the
track and the use of the front brake would be dangerous due to the decreased
traction offered by grass or worse wet grass (ask me how I know). They may
also use it a bit more in rain races.


> manufacturers wouldn't add them to improve profits and reduce lawsuits.
>   I'm sure that billions of dollars have been spent researching the use of the
> rear brakes, and bikes today wouldn't have 'em if they weren't needed.

Rear brakes are useful. I use mine in controlled stopping situations, or
when I have a passenger and donM-9t want all of that wait thrown on the front
wheel very dramatically and am not in a panic stop situation. I also use it
by tapping it to flash my brake light to get someone's attention behind me,
I find it easier then the front, but that's just my preference. I also use
my rear brake when stopped on steep hills to so I can have better control of
the throttle when I start to go.

Dave


From dc-cycles-request Sun Mar 10 19:22:45 2002
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Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:22:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Aaron <jarvis22201@XXXXXX>
Subject: The straw that "braked" the camel's back
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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At the risk of adding principled engineering thoughts
to the debate . . . 

I encourage you to read
http://www.mecc.unipd.it/~cos/DINAMOTO/frenata/Braking%20paper/braking_new.htm,
a nice summary of the most effective way to brake a
motorcycle taking into account traction, center of
gravity, weight transfer, etc.  Figure 6 is a good
summary of the conclusions.

And what were the conclusions?

<snip formulas and tables>

"[D]eceleration increases with the coefficients of
friction [AM: stickiness of the road]. Due to the load
transfer the front wheel braking force is bigger than
the rear wheel braking force.

<snip> 

"If the coefficients of friction are low, the
importance of the rear braking force is not
negligible, as in high friction condition.

<snip> 

"Which is then the optimum braking to achieve the 0.5g
deceleration?

"If the maximum coefficients of friction are the same
for both the wheels, Figure 7 shows that the maximum
deceleration is achieved when both the tires are used
in the same way.

"As an example consider a coefficient of friction
equal to 0.8 for both the tires [AM: from my
engineering days, the coefficient of friction for a
dry road in good condition ranges from .8-.9]; the
maximum deceleration (0.8g) is achieved with a braking
ratio equal to ****90 [% front]:10 [% rear]****.

Using the front brake only, the maximum deceleration
is equal to 0.67g; using only the rear brake is equal
to 0.29g.  [AM: so neither alone is best]

In slipping condition the coefficient of friction is
equal to 0.4, the maximum deceleration is equal to
0.4g and the optimum braking ratio is 30 [%front]:70
[%rear].  [AM: !!!  E.g., grass, rain on metal, etc.]



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
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From dc-cycles-request Sun Mar 10 19:54:26 2002
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From: Chuck and Karen Pena <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
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Thanks to all who showed up at Grevey's to watch the Daytona 200 this 
afternoon.  We had a small crowd of about 20 people.  So where was 
everyone else???



From dc-cycles-request Sun Mar 10 20:07:02 2002
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From: Brian Roach <roach@XXXXXX>
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Subject: Re: The straw that "braked" the camel's back
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On Sunday 10 March 2002 19:22, Aaron wrote:
> At the risk of adding principled engineering thoughts
> to the debate . . .

Precisely. It goes back to absolutes and the phrase "It works on paper".
:)

 If you have the skill and dexterity to always use the rear brake only enough 
to provide 10% of your total braking, especially in a panic situation ... 
you're quite possibly one of the best riders in the world.  If you apply more 
brake than that which is needed to reach the proscribed 10%, you have now 
created a rear-wheel slide and things are less than optimal as the 
aforementioned paper describes; rear wheel slide, directional instability. 
The is usually called risk outweighing result.

Also, if you read, all the calculations are based on a motorcycle with a 
50:50 static weight balance. This does NOT describe a modern sportbike. Ever 
note the ass-up/nose-down attitute of a GSXR? If you re-computed the numbers 
using the front-bias weight figures of a modern sportbike, you now have an 
optimal braking force goal of far less than 10% ... not a real big margin for 
error there. Again... risk outweighs result, and most mortals aren't going to 
be able to achieve proficiency.

What they DO point out is the other part I've already stated - when you're 
not on grippy dry pavement, the rear brake is your head's best friend (As in, 
it keeps you from landing on it) :)

- Roach

From dc-cycles-request Sun Mar 10 20:10:44 2002
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck and Karen Pena" <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 7:44 PM
Subject: Daytona 200 afternoon


> Thanks to all who showed up at Grevey's to watch the Daytona 200 this
> afternoon.  We had a small crowd of about 20 people.  So where was
> everyone else???
>

A.  It's none of your business.  :)
B.  If it were, I would say I was washing my bike to remove three hundred
miles of South-Carolina-in-the-rain road spooge from last weekend.  May I be
excused now?

%^)

Paul in DC



From dc-cycles-request Sun Mar 10 20:21:25 2002
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From: "Dave Yates" <sdave@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Daytona 200 afternoon
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 20:00:08 -0500
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> Thanks to all who showed up at Grevey's to watch the Daytona 200 this
> afternoon.  We had a small crowd of about 20 people.  So where was
> everyone else???
>

A.  It's none of your business.  :)
B.  If it were, I would say I was washing my bike to remove three
hundred
miles of South-Carolina-in-the-rain road spooge from last weekend.  May
I be
excused now?


	<DJY>  NO.  where's your DCC spirit?  and just for your insolent
resposne, you're in email Time out 'til tomorrow night, Mr. smarty
pants. ;-)

	Road spooge...  indeed.



Dave Yates
'90 ZX11 'Acceleratus Maximus'
LTT customized M96G EII 'Little Friend'
http://www.radix.net/~sdave/


From dc-cycles-request Sun Mar 10 20:36:14 2002
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From: "Dave Yates" <sdave@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: The straw that "braked" the camel's back
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 20:14:31 -0500
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> At the risk of adding principled engineering thoughts
> to the debate . . .

Precisely. It goes back to absolutes and the phrase "It works on paper".
:)

 If you have the skill and dexterity to always use the rear brake only
enough
to provide 10% of your total braking, especially in a panic situation
...
you're quite possibly one of the best riders in the world.  If you apply
more
brake than that which is needed to reach the proscribed 10%, you have
now
created a rear-wheel slide and things are less than optimal as the
aforementioned paper describes; rear wheel slide, directional
instability.
The is usually called risk outweighing result.


	<DJY>  We've already covered rear wheel lockup, in the 1st dozen or so
posts.  1) it's not as bad as all that 2) it's a damn sight better than
front wheel slide...

	If you have to make a panic stop, because you can't swerve - whatever,
and lock up the rear brake ONLY to stop, you will eventually stop.  If
you only let off the gas, you will eventually stop.  If you apply and or
lock the front brake, you will eventually stop.  If you apply both &
lock the rear you'll stop quicker.  If you apply both & lock neither,
but keep both on the threshold of locking, you'll stop in a shorter
distance.  Obviously, you have to have rear traction to use the rear
brake effectively, so if you are so hamfisted that you loft the rear
wheel so often when you stop your sportbike that you can't practice 2
wheel threshold braking, street rider, instructor, racer or motorcycle
god, you shouldn't be riding a f%cking motorcycle because you are too
f%cking stupid.  (not aimed at anyone specifically)



Dave Yates
'90 ZX11 'Acceleratus Maximus'
LTT customized M96G EII 'Little Friend'
http://www.radix.net/~sdave/


From dc-cycles-request Sun Mar 10 20:43:09 2002
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From: "dannie davis" <danniedavis@XXXXXX>
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jesus H christ     please stop       :(




_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From dc-cycles-request Sun Mar 10 23:57:35 2002
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From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Braking (motorcycles) --> SPORTBIKES
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 00:01:13 -0500
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|>>  What is your experience with modern day sport bikes?
|>>  
|>Quite a bit, I spent 8 years as a mechanic after all, and I like them. 

And how many emergency stops did you do while test driving them and
using rear brakes<g>

|>>  rear brake usauge will cause the rear wheel to lock up and slide,
|>>  causign a wobble, fishtale, low side, or high side.
|>
|>Again the only answer is BULLSHIT! 
|>I have ridden sportbikes and always use the rear brakes, I have never had an 
|>unexpected lock up.

and how many emergencies and how far did the back wheel SLIDE? Do you
count that sliding as good stoping power? As controlled braking?

|>If the brake does lock up IT IS NO BIG DEAL!!!  

For us, yes, for new riders... they panic.. and we all know panic is
the sepreme evil of motorcycling.

|>Beginning rider course (MRC: RSS) braking exercises include:
|>
|>Stopping with both brakes (always)
|>Stopping quickly with both brakes
|>Stopping quickly on command with both brakes
|>Stopping on a curve with both brakes
|>Stopping quickly on a curve with both brakes
|>CONTROLLING REAR WHEEL SKIDS.   

Yes I know.. I passed it.

|>Experienced rider courses which are ridden on your own bike, include all of 
|>the above but exclude the rear wheel skid for bikes with linked brakes due to 
|>the danger of _front_ wheel lock up. I have seen hundreds of sportbikes lock 
|>the rear wheel and skid with not problems at all.

But that doesn't mean it's good useful braking. Would you say a bike
is more or less controllable with it's rear end swerving around? I'd
say less.

|>Fear of the rear brake is irrational  A rear wheel skid is easy to control 

who said fear?  I use my back brake at certain times on wet roads or
when goofing off..  but i know even when emergency braking, even
engine braking can cause the back wheel to skid.  I could ride around
the world with only the rear brake, but that doesn't mean anything.

|>In emergency I have skidded a rear wheel (No front brake, SURPRISE!!  ) some 
|>30 or 40ft. on pavement, 4-6 on dirt, and another 8-10 paved, all the time 
|>curving towards a small dirt hill I was hoping would stop me before I got to 
|>the rock lined ditch. I do admit at the time I was thinking  "Oh Shit, Oh 
|>Shit, Oh Shit!!!" But not because of the rear wheel lock up but because I 
|>donM-bM-^@M-^Yt like crashing into rocks. (I was halfway up the hill before I stopped.)

ok what the hell happened to your front brake mr mechanic?

|>If you are afraid of rear wheel skids you need to practice them I suggest the 
|>MSF experienced rider course but if testosterone poisoning  prevents you from 
|>doing that find yourself someplace and just do it.

I agree with that.

|>Remember thousand upon thousands of virgin riders across the country have had 
|>no problems controlling rear wheel skids, if they can do it so can you.

and probably the same amount have gotten fugged up using rear brakes
and skidding, except it was an emergency situation on a sportbike and
they tried what they were told in the msf class.

|>Oh MSF is not just for cruiser riders or even cruiser orientated, it was 
|>founded in the early 70M-bM-^@M-^Ys and was (still is) by the motorcycle manufacturers 
|>including all of the Japanese brands and Harley. In the 70M-bM-^@M-^Ys not one of the 
|>Japanese manufacturers was building a cruiser *Not one!* Why would they fund 
|>a cruiser orientated class?  Current funders include Ducati who as we all 
|>know only builds cruisers and knows nothing about sportbikes.

And how many MSF teachers can brake more effectively than racers?
How many MSF teachers are racers and use the braking technique on the
race track to slow down before  a curve? Here's a wild guess...
"zero".  :)



From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 00:02:57 2002
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From: "mobacc" <mobacc@XXXXXX>
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Subject: Re: Throttlemeister
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The disassembled Vista unit can be seen at
http://compacc2.competitionaccessories.com/on-line-store/genericproduct.jhtm
l?itemId=5285
(among other Google pointers).  The unit in the pic mentioned below doesn't
seem to have the Vista features.

The Vista is a basically a thumb-operated friction band (adjustable) which
performs as a lock on a ring that is secured to the grip (different from
Throttlemeister, which works internal to the bar).  All adjusting accessible
and visible.

Looks like user choice for the price, cosmetic, and structural differences.

(And sweeping up a nit, they both mislable themselves as "cruise controls".
They merely lock throttle.)


Bill S. / DC
'99 VN750 --> You twist, I shout
Join the AMA.  Help protect my riding fun.


X-Sender: wayne@XXXXXX
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 19:27:59 -0500
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Wayne Edelen <wayne@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Throttlemeister
At 10:27 AM 3/9/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Hmmm.  $105?  Maybe it's fancier than my Universal Vista Cruise lock ($25?)
>which has done well for several years.  The old packaging says "fits most
>Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha, Suzuki, Moto Guzzi."  Have seen it mentioned from
>time to time in catalogs.  Had to be careful about specifying bar diameter
>as I recall.

http://store1.yimg.com/I/azmotorsports_1678_3332932

That's the only style vista cruise I've ever seen.  Not something I want on
my sportbike.  The nice thing about the Throttlemeister is that it looks
like any other bar end, which all sportbikes have from the factory.  :-)

-- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/


From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 07:04:17 2002
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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 07:02:28 -0500
From: "William J. Huson" <bhuson@XXXXXX>
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To: mobacc <mobacc@XXXXXX>
CC: DC-Cycles <DC-Cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Throttlemeister
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I had a Vista cruise on my old Suzuki - worked as advertised.  The thumb lver
was well positioned for easy flip-off.  My current steed, a Hawg, has a star
screw betwixt the throttle cables which can be used to lock/friction load the
throttle.  Many Hawg riders say they use it on the highway - not me.  It's not
easily accessable.  Sure, one can work the trhottle over the friction but
knowing Murphy's Law I'll pass on the cleverly concealed Harley throttle
friction adjuster.

The wrist rocker thangs look usable - might have to try one of those.

Bill

mobacc wrote:

> The disassembled Vista unit can be seen at
> http://compacc2.competitionaccessories.com/on-line-store/genericproduct.jhtm
> l?itemId=5285
> (among other Google pointers).  The unit in the pic mentioned below doesn't
> seem to have the Vista features.
>
> The Vista is a basically a thumb-operated friction band (adjustable) which
> performs as a lock on a ring that is secured to the grip (different from
> Throttlemeister, which works internal to the bar).  All adjusting accessible
> and visible.
>
> Looks like user choice for the price, cosmetic, and structural differences.
>
> (And sweeping up a nit, they both mislable themselves as "cruise controls".
> They merely lock throttle.)
>
> Bill S. / DC
> '99 VN750 --> You twist, I shout
> Join the AMA.  Help protect my riding fun.
>
> X-Sender: wayne@XXXXXX
> Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 19:27:59 -0500
> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> From: Wayne Edelen <wayne@XXXXXX>
> Subject: Re: Throttlemeister
> At 10:27 AM 3/9/02 -0500, you wrote:
> >Hmmm.  $105?  Maybe it's fancier than my Universal Vista Cruise lock ($25?)
> >which has done well for several years.  The old packaging says "fits most
> >Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha, Suzuki, Moto Guzzi."  Have seen it mentioned from
> >time to time in catalogs.  Had to be careful about specifying bar diameter
> >as I recall.
>
> http://store1.yimg.com/I/azmotorsports_1678_3332932
>
> That's the only style vista cruise I've ever seen.  Not something I want on
> my sportbike.  The nice thing about the Throttlemeister is that it looks
> like any other bar end, which all sportbikes have from the factory.  :-)
>
> -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/


From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 07:29:01 2002
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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 07:27:15 -0500
From: "William J. Huson" <bhuson@XXXXXX>
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My Harley bagger has never been a hands-off bike.  I thought that odd,
and I was also bothered by the not dangerous but annoying wobbles and
weaves the bike went thru when making aggresive lane changes etc etc.  I
chnaged shocks and fork springs to improve the handling.  Much improved,
but not perfect.  H-D techys weren't any help - tis the way it is, sez
they.  The hnadling quirks are often atributed to the front/rear wheel
offset, which has been reported to be 1/2 inch, 3/4 inch, an INCH!
Well, what is the offset?  It varies, shrugs the usual H-D tech.

A letter in this months MCN perked my interest.  An FLH owner examined
the bike and delved into the H-D factory manual under "alignment" and
fixed the problem!  Starnge setup - the rear swingarm and engine are a
unit, sort of.  Cranking on the front turnbuckle chnages the alignment
of the swing arm/engine to the frame.  Offset begone!  MCN did the trick
on their resident Road King.  Test rider sez mid-speed handling greatly
imroved, but he didn't get a chnace to test high speed - the cam bearing
puked.  What a surprise.

So I grabbed my factory manual and examinced my FLHS.  Sho-nuff, one can
move crap around and get that rear wheel and front wheel aligned.  It
ain't easy, invloves much wrenching which will have to wait for comfy
wam weather.  But I'm gonna make up the neccessary alignment fixtures
and do it.  If it works I'll be somewhat pissed.  At least 5 techys have
messed with the bike, but not one of them has bothered to align it!

Bill


From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 08:24:03 2002
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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:15:54 -0500
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Bob  Meyer <bob@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: More braking ... (you'd think we'd have stopped by now..)
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At 09:55 AM 3/10/02 -0500, Brian Roach wrote:

>After some more thought... there's a factor no one has mentioned here because
>we've all been talking in absolutes:
>
>Stability.
>
>On a racetrack, say turn 1 at Summit Point,  I slow my TZ250 from about
>150mph to 60mph then turn at max lean with a knee on the ground. I'm using
>only the front brake, and I try to modulate it at the very edge of locking
>up... the rear is unweighted and dancing around (or in the air), the front is
>compressed, and the bars are twitching as the front tries to come out from
>under you. On top of this... you're fully committed - you are not going to
>change direction while doing this.


As light as a  TZ250 is, ignoring the rear break may indeed be the best 
method.  But many of today's fastest professional road racers, expecially 
on 600cc and larger bikes, have learned that even on the race track using 
the rear break, appropriately, speeds your lap times.

When I raced (about 25-30 years ago), rear breaks tended to be really, 
really touchy, and ignoring the extra stopping power was a worthwhile 
trade-off compared to locking the rear up because it was hard to 
modulate.  Today's sport bikes and racers have really well designed rear 
brakes that are every bit as easy to modulate as the fronts, but the 
"fact"  that you shouldn't use the rear brake on the racetrack persists.  I 
think the real issue here is that most racers never learned to correctly 
modulate the rear brake.

Bob Meyer
'92 ST1100



From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 08:24:10 2002
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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:09:53 -0500
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Bob  Meyer <bob@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Rear Brake
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At 10:05 PM 3/9/02 -0500, Boiade@XXXXXX wrote:

>Let me be frank.  You've probably never raced and ride 
>conservatively.  Some inexperienced riders buy sport bikes and 
>instinctively use the rear brake.  This will usually be the cause of their 
>first accident (according to the Hurt Report).  Who is misleading whom?


Have you actually READ the Hurt report, as opposed to reading various web 
reports ABOUT the Hurt report?  I have, and you've got it completely 
wrong.  What Hurt said is that many riders use ONLY the rear brake, and 
doing that takes away most of your breaking power, and increases the 
likelihood of locking up the rear and losing control.

He NEVER said, nor even implied, that you shouldn't use the rear break.

Geez!

Bob Meyer
'92 ST1100



From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 08:24:21 2002
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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:19:05 -0500
To: "Steven C. Di Pietro" <stevied65@XXXXXX>
From: Bob  Meyer <bob@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Rear Brake
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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At 06:21 PM 3/10/02 -0800, Steven C. Di Pietro wrote:

>Hi all,
>             I'd bet that if rear brake usage was unnecessary or 
> dangerous, that racers would be removing the rear brake system to save 
> weight, and bike manufacturers wouldn't add them to improve profits and 
> reduce lawsuits.
>     I'm sure that billions of dollars have been spent researching the use 
> of the rear brakes, and bikes today wouldn't have 'em if they weren't needed.


Good point, but you'll never convince some people.  But the truth is, this 
is an easy test for any rider to perform.  Find an empty parking lot, and 
brake hard from about 30-35 miles per hour.  Measure how long the stop took 
(in terms of parking spaces--you won't even need a tape measure.  Then do 
it again, using both brakes.

Report your results back here, please.

Bob Meyer



From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 08:26:26 2002
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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:27:16 -0500
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Bob  Meyer <bob@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Braking (motorcycles) --> SPORTBIKES
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At 06:15 AM 3/9/02 -0500, daniel_ex250@XXXXXX wrote:
>SPORTBIKES
>
>rear brake usauge will cause the rear wheel to lock up and slide,
>causign a wobble, fishtale, low side, or high side.


Unfortunately, this says more about your riding/braking skills than it does 
the bike.

Bob Meyer



From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 08:50:57 2002
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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 07:48:34 -0600
From: "George Cole" <George.Cole@XXXXXX>
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Subject: Re: Summer riding pants
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I could use a pair of these just for working in the garage etc...

According to the website they are $ 44 a pair, where did you get the $ 25 price?

Thanks,

George Cole
01 FZ1

>>> Bob McKeithen <bmckeithen@XXXXXX> 03/08/02 08:43PM >>>
I just received what may an interesting alternative to expensive riding
jeans from an outfit called JD American Workwear. They are a very heavy
denim jean with padded leather covered knees and leather covered butt. The
good news is they are on sale for $25 a pair--the bad news is they are going
out of business on 1April. Check the website at http://www.jdamerican.com 

Bob



From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 09:06:42 2002
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Subject: RE: Re: Daytona 200 afternoon
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Four words: NO SOUP FOR YOU!

Original Message:

> Thanks to all who showed up at Grevey's to watch the Daytona 200 this
> afternoon.  We had a small crowd of about 20 people.  So where was
> everyone else???
>

A.  It's none of your business.  :)
B.  If it were, I would say I was washing my bike to remove three hundred
miles of South-Carolina-in-the-rain road spooge from last weekend.  May I be
excused now?

%^)

Paul in DC


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From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 09:08:40 2002
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Subject: RE: Re: The straw that braked the camel's back
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Using the front or rear or both??? %^)

Original Message:
-----------------
From: dannie davis danniedavis@XXXXXX
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 01:31:11 
To: jarvis22201@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: The straw that "braked" the camel's back


jesus H christ     please stop       :(




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From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 09:21:54 2002
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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 06:21:52 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeannette <gingerdc9@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Daytona 200 afternoon
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We wanted to make it, but have discovered that if we
leave our nursing dog alone for more than an hour at a
time, she uses Tom's office as a latrine.  =:o

- Jeannette
  '86 VFR 700F2
  http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/speedway/3081

> 
> Original Message:
> 
> > Thanks to all who showed up at Grevey's to watch
> the Daytona 200 this
> > afternoon.  We had a small crowd of about 20
> people.  So where was
> > everyone else???
> >
> 


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From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 09:38:50 2002
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Chuck, are you interested (-;

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1711908304

=====


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From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 09:50:10 2002
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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:50:07 -0600 (CST)
From: Fish Flowers <fish@XXXXXX>
To: DC-Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Automated Speeding Ticket
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*sigh*

I received an automated ticket in the mail yesterday from DC Metro
Police. It has a nice pretty picture of my cage heading down DC-295 at
what they have as 11 mph over the limit (of 50).

I don't go 61 in 50 zones -- 57, 59 maybe, but not 61.

Is it possible the radar is wrong? Is it even worth bothering to contest
it? I'm a little concerned that if I contest it I'd be admitting guilt
(and thus opening myself up to points-on-the-license, something I'd really
rather avoid if possible).

You folks seem to know all about this sort of stuff (or at least have
opinions). Any thoughts?

Ta much,

Fish.


From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 09:55:39 2002
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God, I love this thread!  Nothing like beating a dead horse! %)

1.  I agree with Bob that at "parking lot" or sane/legal street speeds, proper application of the rear brake in conjunction with proper application of the front brake will likely result in shorter stopping distances.  In fact, I've done exactly as Bob suggested to see if I could stop shorter by applying the rear brake and to see if I could learn to use the rear brake better/properly.  My experience in this type of environment that I've done what comes naturally and instinctively (i.e., apply the front brake) to provide the initial stopping power and then gradually applied the rear brake for additional stopping power.  No rear wheel slides, wiggles, step-outs, etc.

2.  That said, I can also say that when I was a newbie rider I made the mistake of applying only the rear brake in a relatively "high speed" panic situation (a traffic light turned red on me as I was rolling on WOT -- I hate it when that happens!)  In this instance application of the REAR BRAKE ONLY resulted in a pretty massive rear end wiggle/step-out (and the bike was straight up and down vertical).  Fortunately, I was smart/lucky enough to know to let off the brake and get back on the throttle.  I was even more fortunate to blast through the intersection on the red but before the cars that had the green moved across.  Definitely an "oh shit!" moment and a big oops.

3.  For "real world" sportbike riding (i.e., at a spirited pace usually at extra-legal speeds), I  agree more with the Roach and others who advocate using only the front brake -- which is basically what I do.  I find it much easier to modulate, control, feel what's going on.  Especially setting up for a turn (not talking about braking for a stop sign/light here).  At least for a mere mortal such as myself, an added complication of trying to use the rear brake is that I find it damn hard to have fine motor control of my right foot/ankle to modulate the rerar brake lever when I'm hanging off and putting a knee down (not that I would ever do that street riding!)  I would one day love to be like Mick and have the ability to use the rear to induce a controlled slike.  But first I think I'd at least need a thumb brake.  And maybe one day pigs will fly too!

4.  Should newbies (and riders in general) learn to use the rear brake?  You betcha!  Is front brake only "better" than combining the front and rear?  Probably in certain (maybe even a lot) of situations.  Is rear brake only appropriate?  Of course, under certain situation (e.g., tight parking lot maneuvers, low grip/traction).  Is the MSF-taught way to brake the only, unequivocally, and authoritatively best way to stop a m/c?  Of course not (yes, I've taken the MSF course).  Is everyone on this list talking at cross-purposes and comparing apples to oranges or generalizing specifics?  Probably, but it's been highly entertaining!

5.  Regardless of which is "better," I think the most important thing is that riders learn how to use the brakes (individually or in tandem) in such a way that they can bring themselves to a controlled stop (or slow down to an appropriate speed) for the type of m/c they ride and the kind of riding they do.  Ride a 600-pound behemouth cruiser at more or less legal speeds?  Probably easy enough to learn how to use both brakes (and BOTH are probably needed to bring such beasties to a full and complete stop in a relatively short distnace!)  Ride a modern sportbike with properly set-up suspension and braided front brake lines at extra legal speeds in the twisties or are a track day junkie?  You can probably have fun and be safe without ever touching the rear.  

6.  I think the main point that most of the "rear brake advocates" (and I'd put myself largely in that category) have been trying to make is that a lot of riders (especially newbie riders and especially newbie riders on sportbikes) are afraid of using the front (scarred memories of fear of flipping over the handlebars from riding a bicycle) and instinctively tend to over-use or exclusively use the rear (perfectly understandable since you brake with your foot in a car so it's more natural to use your foot when first starting out on a m/c).  And that this can get you into more trouble than just using the front (granted that over-use of the front will also get you into trouble and trying to recover from a front wheel slide is much harder than a rear wheel slide -- but I would bet that most people never really come close to over-using the front, i.e., in almost all street riding situations there's plenty more room to apply the front brakes but people don't know it and/or are too afraid to use it).

7.  I can think of one VERY GOOD reason to use the rear brake.  Max Biaggi at the Czech GP in Brno in 1999.  Victory wheelie where he brings his Marlboro Honda NSR500 almost past vertical.  No amount of front brake would've saved looping the bike at 100+mph as he showboated on the start/finish straight! %^)

8.  Finally, the real reason for not paying any attention whatsoever to the rear brake: STOPPIES! %^)

Chuck

Original Message:

Good point, but you'll never convince some people.  But the truth is, this 
is an easy test for any rider to perform.  Find an empty parking lot, and 
brake hard from about 30-35 miles per hour.  Measure how long the stop took 
(in terms of parking spaces--you won't even need a tape measure.  Then do 
it again, using both brakes.

Report your results back here, please.

Bob Meyer


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From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 09:59:29 2002
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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 06:59:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Todd Withrow <mtwithrow@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: new aggressive driving offense in VA
To: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>, matthew patton <pattonme@XXXXXX>,
   dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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--- Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX> wrote:
> good luck trying to prove that a client of mine had
> the
> intent to "harass, intimidate, or obstruct" a driver
> and
> his 3000+ pound vehicle while on his open-air
> 400-700lb
> defenseless motorcycle
> 

You know as well as I do, that you don't have to PROVE
anything, just make the jurors believe. There is a
difference. Besides, roll up next to a petit, shy
woman in a Geo Metro, shake your fist at her and tap
on her window a couple of times. Do you think she
could make a few jurors believe she was intimidated?
Hell, for that matter, I bet you could convince a few
jurors that revving the engine intimidated a driver.



> 
> > Now all we need is a means of dialing up the
> police
> > chopper to point out
> > the loony behaving in a seriously questionable
> manner.
> 
> also a brilliant idea.  that way we could keep the
> police
> choppers in the air, constantly, at $10k per hour
> (or
> whatever the silly friggin figure is), at OUR
> expense.
> 



Actually, I believe the figure is $280 an hour. WHAT A
BARGAIN!! :)

=====
AIM: Inf DS

http://www.geocities.com/mtwithrow

-----------------------------------------------------------
Used to be that we "worldproofed" our children. Now society wants to childproof the world.

__________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 10:20:50 2002
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Subject: Re: Braking (motorcycles) --> SPORTBIKES
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:21:07 -0500
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\\\
-- Original Message -----
From: <daniel_ex250@XXXXXX>
\
|>Oh MSF is not just for cruiser riders or even cruiser orientated, it was
|>founded in the early 70M-bM-^@M-^Ys and was (still is) by the motorcycle
manufacturers
|>including all of the Japanese brands and Harley. In the 70M-bM-^@M-^Ys not one of
the
|>Japanese manufacturers was building a cruiser *Not one!* Why would they
fund
|>a cruiser orientated class?  Current funders include Ducati who as we all
|>know only builds cruisers and knows nothing about sportbikes.

And how many MSF teachers can brake more effectively than racers?
How many MSF teachers are racers and use the braking technique on the
race track to slow down before  a curve? Here's a wild guess...
"zero".  :)

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

And what, exactly, would be the point of teaching racer braking technique to
rank newbies, some of whom have never swung a leg over a bike until Saturday
morning?  There are some very accomplished riders who teach MSF by the way,
perhaps you should answer the next appeal for RiderCoach candidates.

That said, I'm getting a little tired of the MSF bashing by self-proclaimed
"experts."  The MSF curriculum is not the "gold standard" for all things;
but it is carefully designed for a very particular purpose and is backed up
by many years of research and "real world" experience.  It is a beginning,
not an end.  There are a few contributors to this thread who are guilty of
using MSF curricula and the Hurt Report as straw men and distorting the
facts.

The MSF course (the current iteration is called the Basic RiderCourse) is
designed to teach beginners minimal skills which are applicable to *street*
riding at *street* speeds.  You experts out there care to tell me what the
Hurt Report found to be the median vehicle speed prior to a crash on the
street?  Hint:  it's lower than you think.  The median pre-crash speed was
just 29.8 mph.  [See below]  Those are the street speeds to which MSF
tailors the program.  MSF designed its courses to teach skills found to be
lacking--"essentially absent" the Report says-- in accident-involved riders,
to give them traffic awareness skills and above all to teach them to take
responsibility and ride within the limits of their skills, the environment
and their motorcycles.

Let's take a look at what was lacking in those accident-involved riders.
Basically they didn't know how to turn (let's include swerving as a subset
of turning) or how to stop (both brakes, progressive squeeze on the front,
light to lighter pressure on the rear as the bike slows).  We teach them to
become minimally competent doing those things so they can learn more *on
their own bikes* which may be a dual sport, sportbike, sport-tourer, cruiser
or full bagger tourer.  Linked brakes, ABS are in that mix too.  You can
sort out the finer points then.  That's it, simple.  But believe me, it's
plenty to learn in a weekend.

Hurt Report summary of findings >>
http://www.clarity.net/~adam/hurt-report.html

I pulled out three items germane to our discussion here:

4. In single vehicle accidents, motorcycle rider error was present as the
accident precipitating factor in about two-thirds of the cases, with the
typical error being a slideout and fall due to overbraking or running wide
on a curve due to excess speed or under-cornering.

16. The median pre-crash speed was 29.8 mph, and the median crash speed was
21.5 mph, and the one-in-a-thousand crash speed is approximately 86 mph.
[Median = half of the sample faster, half slower.  Notice how rare high
speed crashes are. 0.1% of the sample.  Ed.]

28. Motorcycle riders in these accidents showed significant collision
avoidance problems. Most riders would overbrake and skid the rear wheel, and
underbrake the front wheel greatly reducing collision avoidance
deceleration. The ability to countersteer and swerve was essentially absent.


Paul in DC
Opinions my own, not MSF's, etc., etc.









From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 10:31:19 2002
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From: Larry Larson <pltrgyst@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Braking (motorcycles) --> SPORTBIKES
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At 10:21 AM 3/11/2002, Paul wrote:

>I pulled out three items germane to our discussion here:

"I don't care about the god-damned Germans...."

-- Larry
(Sorry. It was reflex.)





From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 10:48:27 2002
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> 
> That said, I'm getting a little tired of the MSF bashing by self-proclaimed
> "experts." 

I think this is taken way out of context.  I can speak for myself in saying I was not bashing MSF at all.  I was one of those riders who never "drove" a bike until I swung my leg over that Saturday morning...but what I am saying, is now that I ride on the street and race, I understand that MSF's teachings are basics and not necessarily applied in every situation.

LAG


________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 10:49:41 2002
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From: <sdave@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Cc: 
Subject: re: Automated Speeding Ticket  


*sigh*

I received an automated ticket in the mail yesterday from DC Metro
Police. It has a nice pretty picture of my cage heading down DC-295 at
what they have as 11 mph over the limit (of 50).

I don't go 61 in 50 zones -- 57, 59 maybe, but not 61.

  <DJY>  Don't go there.  Figuratively, & literally.  Congratulation 
on being the latest contributor to DC's random road tax.  You can 
take comfort in knowing that the money will be used to fund one of 
DC's highly efficient and successful social programs, redistributing 
YOUR wealth to someone more in need, like the DC Government.  


Is it possible the radar is wrong? Is it even worth bothering to 
contest it?


   <DJY>  OF F%CKIN COURSE IT'S WRONG.  Radar works perfectly if 
aimed at 0 degrees at a moving target, meaning directly in front of 
you.  IF the radar unit was not DIRECTLY in front of you or behind 
you, then the radar unit's registered speed must be calculated at 
trial based on it's location (angle in relation to the measured 
vehicle) and registered speed.  This is commonly called the 'cosine 
error'.  As we know, Due process means nothing to the DC Government, 
so don't expect a whole lot of ability to contest.  

I Understand from a news report that you may file an affidavit on the 
back of the ticket indicating  that you were not the driver at the 
time.  You didn't indicate that you were *DRIVING* the cage at the 
time the picture was taken, which *CLEARLY* indicates to me that 
there IS reasonable doubt present in DC's assertion that YOU were 
driving.  I'll bet you can't be CERTAIN that it was you driving, CAN 
YOU <hint> ?  

You'd be well served to consult an attorney, but I believe you can 
indicate you weren't driving and you are not required by law to 
indicate who was.
              
Anyway, thanks for helping keep our Federal Taxes lower by 
contributing to the DC Random Road Tax, Fish...

Dave



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From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 10:55:39 2002
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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:43:29 -0500 (EST)
From: JD <jdonovan@XXXXXX>
To: Wayne Edelen <wayne@XXXXXX>
cc: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Chatterbox questions
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On Sat, 9 Mar 2002, Wayne Edelen wrote:

> Does anyone know if the GMRSX1 and FRSX2 are compatible? I have friends
> with the GMRSX1 and I'm considering purchasing the FRSX2 (I'm cheap). The
> X1 just seems to have more range than the X2.

the  GMRSX1 and FRSX2 are compatible on the first 7 channels. The biggest
differences are the GMRS units are 5 watts, vs. FRS at 0.5 watts. GMRS
requires a license $75/5 years I believe, and no test. Just fill out the
form and mail with a check. FRS is good for about 1/2-1 mile GMRS will do
closer to 3-5 miles.

I've done a bunch of traveling recently with FRS in the car and had
numerous occasions where I could see another car ahead of me on the road
but could not talk to them. I'd save up the money and get the GMRS unit.

-jd


From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 10:59:36 2002
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On Monday 11 March 2002 10:21, Paul Wilson wrote:

> That said, I'm getting a little tired of the MSF bashing by self-proclaimed
> "experts."  The MSF curriculum is not the "gold standard" for all things;
> but it is carefully designed for a very particular purpose and is backed up
> by many years of research and "real world" experience.  It is a beginning,
> not an end.  

I agree with you Paul. Having taken the MSF Basic course with someone (to 
provide moral support - I wasn't smart enough 13 years ago to take it), I 
think the MSF is by FAR the best way for someone to learn the basics of 
riding. 

The problem is that many don't have your enlightened view and will quote 
chapter and verse from the MSF ciriculum as if it WERE the only and best way 
to do things. In many cases, it's not. It balances rider skill (and in the 
case of the Basic course, this means near zero) and the capabilities of a 
motorcycle. It also draws on years of seeing what bad habits most try and 
bring along with them, and attempts to break (no pun intended) them. I 
believe this is THE #1 reason they advocate the use of both brakes. 

Most people draw on two experiences when it comes to brakes. Mashing a brake 
pedal to stop (as in a car), and that time when they hit the front brake on 
their bicycle and threw themselves over the bars onto their head :) The MSF 
had to figure out a way to get them to use the front brakes without scaring 
the hell out of them. Also, everything we've been arguing about only applies 
to a single situation: Dry pavement. If you tried to explain coefficients of 
friction, linear stability, etc in a MSF classroom... well, lets just say I 
don't think it would go too well :)

The trick is... being open to learning past the MSF. Everyone here on the 
"both brakes" side says using both stops you faster. Why? Where does this 
information come from? The MSF and the seat-of-the-pants meter. I've seen no 
other source of proof quoted or displayed. 

The BEST piece of info in this whole debate was the physics paper to which 
someone posted a link. It showed that when you hit a 1.0 coefficient of 
friction under braking, the rear brake is no longer useful. With the proper 
use of the front brakes under dry conditions on good pavement - that's 
exactly what will happen. It won't happen if it's wet, or if you're on 
gravel, or on a leaf-covered road, etc. 

What we should all learn from this is that there's a LOT to proper braking, 
and conditions (more specificly, available traction) dictate the proper use 
of the rear brake, not a single experience in a dry parking lot at 15mph.   

- Roach

From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 11:06:34 2002
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In a message dated 3/11/02 11:01:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
roach@XXXXXX writes:


> What we should all learn from this is that there's a LOT to proper braking, 
> and conditions (more specificly, available traction) dictate the proper use 
> 
> of the rear brake, not a single experience in a dry parking lot at 15mph.   
> 

So raise your hand if you have actually PRACTICED braking recently?  Many 
folks espouse the 'ideal braking' theory....very few make sure they can do 
it.  And yes....I do practice....in fact I've been doing it for the past 2 
weeks.  :-))

Keener

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 3/11/02 11:01:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, roach@XXXXXX writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">What we should all learn from this is that there's a LOT to proper braking, <BR>
and conditions (more specificly, available traction) dictate the proper use <BR>
of the rear brake, not a single experience in a dry parking lot at 15mph.&nbsp;&nbsp; </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
So raise your hand if you have actually PRACTICED braking recently?&nbsp; Many folks espouse the 'ideal braking' theory....very few make sure they can do it.&nbsp; And yes....I do practice....in fact I've been doing it for the past 2 weeks.&nbsp; :-))<BR>
<BR>
Keener</FONT></HTML>

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From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 11:20:32 2002
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Paul,

For the record, I took the MSF course, learned a lot, and had a lot fun -- especially dragging the pegs doing "fast" circles in the parking lot! %^)  The instructors also kindly let me know that I would be doc-ed points on the riding skills test if hung off, dragged the pegs, or insisted on using just the front brake.  They also weren't exactly keen about the fact that I covered and only used 2 fingers for the front brake.  But I never once thought I knew better or more and that I didn't have anything to learn or gain from taking the course.  I think every wannabe m/c rider should start with MSF (or some reasonable facsimile).  But MSF is a starting point.  The question is whether as riders progress along their own individual learning curves whether they advance and learn more or simply stick with what they were taught at parking lot speeds under very controlled conditions (which is IMHO the absolute best way to learn).  To each his/her own.  Everyone has different reasons for riding, different definitions of "fun", and different levels of acceptable risk/fear.  Even "advanced" riding schools (e.g., California Superbike School, Freddie Spencer, STAR, dP, etc.) have different approaches and thinking to riding.  The laws of physics are what keep us in contact with the ground (or not, as the case might be).  But there's usually more than one way to get something done.  And what works well for one person, might not work so well for another (you don't see every racer backing out the rear like Gary McCoy!)  I think there's only one "absolute" we can all agree on: CRASHING SUCKS!

Chuck

Original Message: <SNIP>
-----------------

That said, I'm getting a little tired of the MSF bashing by self-proclaimed
"experts."  The MSF curriculum is not the "gold standard" for all things;
but it is carefully designed for a very particular purpose and is backed up
by many years of research and "real world" experience.  It is a beginning,
not an end.  There are a few contributors to this thread who are guilty of
using MSF curricula and the Hurt Report as straw men and distorting the
facts.

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From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 11:22:16 2002
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From: <sdave@XXXXXX>
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Cc: 
Subject: Re: MSF bashing  

Roach asks -

 Also, everything we've been arguing about only applies 
to a single situation: Dry pavement.


  <DJY>  I don't remember the dry pavement assertion, but the same 
basic idea applies on wet pavement - the ability to stop in the 
shortest distance.

Everyone here on the "both brakes" side says using both stops you 
faster. Why? Where does this information come from? The MSF and the 
seat-of-the-pants meter. I've seen no other source of proof quoted or 
displayed. 


   <DJY>  I ask this question (I already know - it's a dry pavement 
test under ideal circumstances) How do the various moto rags come up 
with their braking evaluations ?  MCN, Sport Rider, Motorcyclist, 
Cycle World, Rider, Brit mags etc...  
If you took (and passed) the "Basic Rider Course" the single to 2 
brake comparison should've been made painfully apparent ...  Have 
they stopped teaching it ?


Dave



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Only because you've had to come off the high speed banking at Daytona to slow down for the chicane! %^)  BTW, how did you end up doing at the races?  Saw your name (briefly) up on the board on Speed Channel for the 750 Superstock race.  Congrats!

Original Message:
-----------------

So raise your hand if you have actually PRACTICED braking recently?  Many 
folks espouse the 'ideal braking' theory....very few make sure they can do 
it.  And yes....I do practice....in fact I've been doing it for the past 2 
weeks.  :-))

Keener

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From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 11:31:15 2002
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From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
To: <roach@XXXXXX>
Cc: "dc-cycles list" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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Subject: Re: MSF bashing
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Yes, thank you.  I should have said BOTH sides were distorting the MSF's
position for their own reasons in a reductio ad absurdum exercise.  It is
not either A)  a finishing school for cruiser riders who want to lope along
the back roads lovingly caressing the rear brake or B)  a definitive and
encyclopedic treatment of all things related to riding that came down from
the mountain with Moses.  It's simply a weekend course designed to prepare
riders to get a license, to correct some *fundamental* deficiencies
exhibited in untrained riders, to provide a non-threatening environment to
gain a little confidence in basic motorcycle operation and to establish a
basis for the students to continue skill development through all manner of
riding experiences and further education.  Above all it teaches attitude,
which to me is more valuable than some of the particulars.

Speaking personally, when stop learning new things about riding a
motorcycle, I think I'll quit.

Shall we discuss four fingers on the lever now?  :)

Paul in DC
Opinions my own, not MSF's, etc., etc.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Roach" <roach@XXXXXX>
To: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>; <daniel_ex250@XXXXXX>;
<PenguinBiker@XXXXXX>
Cc: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 10:58 AM
Subject: Re: MSF bashing


> On Monday 11 March 2002 10:21, Paul Wilson wrote:
>
> > That said, I'm getting a little tired of the MSF bashing by
self-proclaimed
> > "experts."  The MSF curriculum is not the "gold standard" for all
things;
> > but it is carefully designed for a very particular purpose and is backed
up
> > by many years of research and "real world" experience.  It is a
beginning,
> > not an end.
>
> I agree with you Paul. Having taken the MSF Basic course with someone (to
> provide moral support - I wasn't smart enough 13 years ago to take it), I
> think the MSF is by FAR the best way for someone to learn the basics of
> riding.
>
> The problem is that many don't have your enlightened view and will quote
> chapter and verse from the MSF ciriculum as if it WERE the only and best
way
> to do things. ...
>
> What we should all learn from this is that there's a LOT to proper
braking,
> and conditions (more specificly, available traction) dictate the proper
use
> of the rear brake, not a single experience in a dry parking lot at 15mph.
>
> - Roach


From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 11:37:30 2002
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Subject: Re: MSF bashing  
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In a message dated 3/11/02 11:23:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, sdave@XXXXXX 
writes:


> <DJY>  I ask this question (I already know - it's a dry pavement 
> test under ideal circumstances) How do the various moto rags come up 
> with their braking evaluations ?  MCN, Sport Rider, Motorcyclist, 
> Cycle World, Rider, Brit mags etc...  
> If you took (and passed) the "Basic Rider Course" the single to 2 
> brake comparison should've been made painfully apparent ...  Have 
> they stopped teaching it ?

Apples & oranges here.  First you have to look at the comparative braking 
systems of the bikes being used.  A single caliper GS500 is probably going to 
benefit from the use of the rear brake...since it's front brake is relatively 
weak....when compared to a dual front disc GSXR with triple pot calipers.  
The GSXR's front brakes will easily loft the rear wheel ... whereas the GS 
will require somebody actively trying to do this.  It also bears mentioning 
that the GSXR will generally have better (grippy) tires.  This will also 
significantly add to the braking capabilities.

Keener

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 3/11/02 11:23:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, sdave@XXXXXX writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">&lt;DJY&gt;&nbsp; I ask this question (I already know - it's a dry pavement <BR>
test under ideal circumstances) How do the various moto rags come up <BR>
with their braking evaluations ?&nbsp; MCN, Sport Rider, Motorcyclist, <BR>
Cycle World, Rider, Brit mags etc...&nbsp; <BR>
If you took (and passed) the "Basic Rider Course" the single to 2 <BR>
brake comparison should've been made painfully apparent ...&nbsp; Have <BR>
they stopped teaching it </BLOCKQUOTE>?</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Apples &amp; oranges here.&nbsp; First you have to look at the comparative braking systems of the bikes being used.&nbsp; A single caliper GS500 is probably going to benefit from the use of the rear brake...since it's front brake is relatively weak....when compared to a dual front disc GSXR with triple pot calipers.&nbsp; The GSXR's front brakes will easily loft the rear wheel ... whereas the GS will require somebody actively trying to do this.&nbsp; It also bears mentioning that the GSXR will generally have better (grippy) tires.&nbsp; This will also significantly add to the braking capabilities.<BR>
<BR>
Keener</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT></HTML>
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From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 11:43:01 2002
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Subject: Re: MSF bashing
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In a message dated 3/11/02 11:29:18 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
cvkgpena@XXXXXX writes:

> Only because you've had to come off the high speed banking at Daytona to 
> slow down for the chicane! %^)  BTW, how did you end up doing at the races? 
>  Saw your name (briefly) up on the board on Speed Channel for the 750 
> Superstock race.  Congrats!

:-))

That's the easy braking zone...it's all upright.  Try barreling across the 
finish line at 175 mph and then having to go to full braking....while leaned 
over.  Yup...the 750 is certainly an eye opener.  But at least it's teaching 
me better braking techniques & brake markers.  I had a good vacation in 
Florida...2 weeks at the speedway.  Hehehe.  I did CCS & FUSA races the first 
weekend...and AMA the second.  As for my results....I'm happier that I 
qualified on only my 2nd weekend on a 750.  I finished 49th in the 750 
race...and 15th in the Pro Thunder race.  Now if I can just get a feel for 
driving out of a turn sideways under power....always have to learn something 
new dontcha know.  I heard I actually got airtime on the 750 race....as I got 
lapped by the leaders...DOH!  Oh well....next year I'll hopefully have 
figured out how to ride...I hope.  :)

Keener

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 3/11/02 11:29:18 AM Eastern Standard Time, cvkgpena@XXXXXX writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Only because you've had to come off the high speed banking at Daytona to slow down for the chicane! %^)&nbsp; BTW, how did you end up doing at the races?&nbsp; Saw your name (briefly) up on the board on Speed Channel for the 750 Superstock race.&nbsp; Congrats!</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
:-))<BR>
<BR>
That's the easy braking zone...it's all upright.&nbsp; Try barreling across the finish line at 175 mph and then having to go to full braking....while leaned over.&nbsp; Yup...the 750 is certainly an eye opener.&nbsp; But at least it's teaching me better braking techniques &amp; brake markers.&nbsp; I had a good vacation in Florida...2 weeks at the speedway.&nbsp; Hehehe.&nbsp; I did CCS &amp; FUSA races the first weekend...and AMA the second.&nbsp; As for my results....I'm happier that I qualified on only my 2nd weekend on a 750.&nbsp; I finished 49th in the 750 race...and 15th in the Pro Thunder race.&nbsp; Now if I can just get a feel for driving out of a turn sideways under power....always have to learn something new dontcha know.&nbsp; I heard I actually got airtime on the 750 race....as I got lapped by the leaders...DOH!&nbsp; Oh well....next year I'll hopefully have figured out how to ride...I hope.&nbsp; :)<BR>
<BR>
Keener</FONT></HTML>

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From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 11:44:47 2002
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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:44:45 -0600 (CST)
From: Fish Flowers <fish@XXXXXX>
To: DC-Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: re: Automated Speeding Ticket  
In-Reply-To: <200203111549.g2BFnZ923662@atlanta.pop3now.com>
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On Mon, 11 Mar 2002 sdave@XXXXXX wrote:

> You'd be well served to consult an attorney, but I believe you can
> indicate you weren't driving and you are not required by law to
> indicate who was.

Blah. Lawyers. I'd rather just pay the fine, especially since no points
are being *ahem* rewarded.

> Anyway, thanks for helping keep our Federal Taxes lower by
> contributing to the DC Random Road Tax, Fish...

Hey, my pleasure. :) Could be worse, I could be giving my money to
Delaware's Road Tax.

Fish.
anyone else think traffic fines should be tax-deductible? <grin>


From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 11:46:49 2002
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From: LAURA GRANATO <lgranato@XXXXXX>
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On Mon, 11 March 2002, SKeener2@XXXXXX wrote:

>A single caliper GS500 is probably going to benefit >from the use of the rear brake...since it's front >brake is relatively weak

I can attest to this after almost rear-ending Roach on his ducati on the way to a bike night.  It was the first time being on my GS since I'd been racing and didn't realize just how little of front brakes my GS had. :)

Ooooops!
LAG


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From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 11:46:51 2002
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From: SKeener2@XXXXXX
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In a message dated 3/11/02 11:33:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
pawilson@XXXXXX writes:

> Yes, thank you.  I should have said BOTH sides were distorting the MSF's
> position for their own reasons in a reductio ad absurdum exercise.  It is
> not either A)  a finishing school for cruiser riders who want to lope along
> the back roads lovingly caressing the rear brake or B)  a definitive and
> encyclopedic treatment of all things related to riding that came down from
> the mountain with Moses.  It's simply a weekend course designed to prepare
> riders to get a license, to correct some *fundamental* deficiencies
> exhibited in untrained riders, to provide a non-threatening environment to
> gain a little confidence in basic motorcycle operation and to establish a
> basis for the students to continue skill development through all manner of
> riding experiences and further education.  Above all it teaches attitude,
> which to me is more valuable than some of the particulars.

Excellent description...fits perfectly.

> Speaking personally, when stop learning new things about riding a
> motorcycle, I think I'll quit.

I can second that one.  Next racing arena to try...motocross....heheheh.

> Shall we discuss four fingers on the lever now?  :)

Depends on the rider, brake strength, and habits.   I'm a 3 finger brake 
covering kinda person.  I know...I'm a freak.  :)

Keener

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 3/11/02 11:33:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, pawilson@XXXXXX writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Yes, thank you.&nbsp; I should have said BOTH sides were distorting the MSF's<BR>
position for their own reasons in a reductio ad absurdum exercise.&nbsp; It is<BR>
not either A)&nbsp; a finishing school for cruiser riders who want to lope along<BR>
the back roads lovingly caressing the rear brake or B)&nbsp; a definitive and<BR>
encyclopedic treatment of all things related to riding that came down from<BR>
the mountain with Moses.&nbsp; It's simply a weekend course designed to prepare<BR>
riders to get a license, to correct some *fundamental* deficiencies<BR>
exhibited in untrained riders, to provide a non-threatening environment to<BR>
gain a little confidence in basic motorcycle operation and to establish a<BR>
basis for the students to continue skill development through all manner of<BR>
riding experiences and further education.&nbsp; Above all it teaches attitude,<BR>
which to me is more valuable than some of the particulars.</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Excellent description...fits perfectly.</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Speaking personally, when stop learning new things about riding a<BR>
motorcycle, I think I'll quit.</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">I can second that one.&nbsp; Next racing arena to try...motocross....heheheh.</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Shall we discuss four fingers on the lever now?&nbsp; :)</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Depends on the rider, brake strength, and habits.&nbsp;&nbsp; I'm a 3 finger brake covering kinda person.&nbsp; I know...I'm a freak.&nbsp; :)<BR>
<BR>
Keener</FONT></HTML>

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From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 11:51:38 2002
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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:51:35 -0800 (PST)
From: matthew patton <pattonme@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Braking (motorcycles) --> SPORTBIKES
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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We teach what we teach because we are targeting novices. They can't
ever go wrong using what we drum into their heads in the short span of
10 hours. You want to do rolling stoppies, 1 finger braking, removing
the rear brake, etc. I don't care. We address the 95+% of riders out
there that don't race, don't own a sports bike, don't ride like a fool
on the street, don't do stoppies, etc. Basically the generic schmoe who
rides when it's 70 deg or better, dry, and daylight. It's these
(future) Jane/John Doe's who can't seem to do basic MC operation that
we have an interest in training so we can make a dent in those
accident/fatality stats. (not that we seem to be making much progress
mind you) VA trains only a couple of percent of riders on the DMV
rolls.

Since somebody asked: I race and teach. On the track I almost never use
the rear brake unless I need to make a minor adjustment in speed
(running up somebody's ass) or am sufficiently un-hurried in the corner
approach that I can use both. But by a large margin my race-track
braking is all front because all available CPU power is dedicated and I
don't have spare cycles to devote to applying and monitoring the rear,
and not because my rear tire is in the air. In track riding, time is
super-squashed. Road-riding is cognitively leisurely.

I realize there is probably a large number of listers who never ride
when conditions aren't ideal. So do yourselves a favor: practice
maximum braking like Keener said, and while you're at it use both
brakes so you're accustomed to using that amount of brain-power and
those particular muscles. If you're out and you happen to be in the
wet, that way you have a better chance of knowing how to stop when you
need to and won't go 'crunch.' Better yet, go deliberately ride in the
wet every chance you can. And spend 30 minutes in a rain-soaked parking
lot doing maximum braking exercises.

FWIW, I engage the front brake and about 1/2 second later engage the
rear and continue to add pressure to the front. I don't have to think
about the delay - it's automatic. I get the benefit of rear braking
force (fairly effective drum on the CB750 vs mostly useless disk on the
Trident) and don't generally run the risk of mashing the rear in an
emergency and getting myself into trouble. The only time I've ever used
the rear brake a lot (not powerfully though) on the street was running
the Dragon in a torrential downpour.

__________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 11:56:25 2002
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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:56:15 -0800 (PST)
From: matthew patton <pattonme@XXXXXX>
Subject: GS brakes (was: MSF bashing)
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GS brakes weak? Well compared to the likes of a modern dual-disk sport
bike I guess they could be considered as such. But I think they are
really quite excellent. Normally the gotcha with the GS is really weak
front suspension. The GS is a light bike an unless you're a big
lard-ass the setup is just fine. Now try a cb750 (easy +100lbs) on a
single disk and 2-pot caliper. That's weak.

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From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 11:57:22 2002
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From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: Fish Flowers <fish@XXXXXX>
Cc: DC-Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Automated Speeding Ticket
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:01:11 -0500
Message-ID: <4pnp8ucafcn656pbhoaaisbd9qeqlkhsvv@4ax.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0203110847410.9863-100000@harper.uchicago.edu>
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The general consensus is to pay it to avoid it going on your record.
you pay it, it doesn't go on your record. You fight it,  and if found
guilty it goes on your record.  So if I were in your place, I'd just
pay it.  If it bothers you, write about it to the papers.

I know one thing. It's not justice.  They can't identify you, yet they
are charging you with the crime.  In exchange for money, they wont'
prosecute  you. Legalized extortion.


Danny

On Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:50:07 -0600 (CST), you wrote:

|>*sigh*
|>
|>I received an automated ticket in the mail yesterday from DC Metro
|>Police. It has a nice pretty picture of my cage heading down DC-295 at
|>what they have as 11 mph over the limit (of 50).
|>
|>I don't go 61 in 50 zones -- 57, 59 maybe, but not 61.
|>
|>Is it possible the radar is wrong? Is it even worth bothering to contest
|>it? I'm a little concerned that if I contest it I'd be admitting guilt
|>(and thus opening myself up to points-on-the-license, something I'd really
|>rather avoid if possible).
|>
|>You folks seem to know all about this sort of stuff (or at least have
|>opinions). Any thoughts?
|>
|>Ta much,
|>
|>Fish.
|>


From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 12:05:48 2002
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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:01:24 -0500
From: Robert Verde <c-Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>
Subject: Just another good news, bad news kind of day...
To: "DC Cycles (E-mail)" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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The good news; I finally got my project 750 Interceptor back on the road.
Powdercoated frame, wheels, valve covers, clutch cover, water pump cover, dog
bones, foot peg carriers (?), etc., etc.  New tires, radiator, Pro-flo clipons,
steel braided lines, clutch assembly, brake assembly, and some other stuff.

Weather on Saturday was great motivation to stay in the garage and finish the
work, weather on Sunday motivated me to drive to Leesburg, visit a friend, watch
some movies, hang out...

Bad news; returning on Rt 7, 9 PM, ready to turn south on 28, red and blue
lights in the mirror.  78 in a 55, reckless driving.  Since it was all of about
30 degrees out there last night, I would have hoped for a little slack, but Mr.
State Trooper didn't see it that way.

So, if anyone has any recommendations for a good lawyer (Loudon County offense)
I'd be happy to hear about her/him/them.  Given that I am sympathetic to the
state budget shortfall that has hit VA, I don't mind paying the fine, but I do
object to a  mark on my spotless record, especially one that will certainly
impact my insurance rate.

Thanks for all replies, preferably off list, as I am reading in digest mode!

Robert Verde

'83 Honda VF750F (RC-15) "BUDOKA"


From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 12:15:29 2002
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From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
Cc: <PenguinBiker@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Braking (motorcycles) --> SPORTBIKES -- MSF bashing
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:19:13 -0500
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I'm not bashing MSF,  I'm glad it exists. They do good work.
That's not to say they are not to be questioned.  All data should be 
questioned. Without scrutiny, errors go by.

Also as wonderful as MSF is, that doesn't mean they are always 100%
correct. They are compramised of humans who make mistakes.

I happen to believe, along with countless other sportbike riders
that when it comes to sport bikes and emergency braking, the
concentration should be on the front brake usage, and rear brake
usuage is most likely a diversion to what's important and adds
unneeded risk of further complications.  Of course we're not trying to
say that's the golden rule for all scenerios, but it's generally good
principle for most "stop ASAP" scenerios.

I have yet to see anyone bashing MSF.
  
Questioning them is not bashing them. 


Danny

From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 12:20:32 2002
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From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: SKeener2@XXXXXX
Cc: roach@XXXXXX, pawilson@XXXXXX, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX,
   dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: MSF bashing
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:24:21 -0500
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If you work on your rolling endos every time you come to that last
traffic light before you get to your home, does that count as
practicing your braking?  heheh

Danny

|>So raise your hand if you have actually PRACTICED braking recently?  Many 
|>folks espouse the 'ideal braking' theory....very few make sure they can do 
|>it.  And yes....I do practice....in fact I've been doing it for the past 2 
|>weeks.  :-))
|>
|>Keener


From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 12:24:57 2002
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From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
Cc: <roach@XXXXXX>, "dc-cycles list" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: MSF bashing  - four finger braking
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:28:47 -0500
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|>Shall we discuss four fingers on the lever now?  :)

YES!  : )

When braking i try to keep my fingers from inbetween the brake lever
and the bar for safety reasons, while I might only apply pressure with
two. :)

From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 12:31:02 2002
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Y'know, this is a "family" list (geez, did I just agree with Gimer???) and we definitely don't need to know about you "rear ending" Roach! %^)

Original Message:
-----------------

I can attest to this after almost rear-ending Roach on his ducati on the way to a bike night.  It was the first time being on my GS since I'd been racing and didn't realize just how little of front brakes my GS had. :)

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From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 12:35:33 2002
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From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
To: <daniel_ex250@XXXXXX>
Cc: <PenguinBiker@XXXXXX>, "dc-cycles list" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
References: <c.2455c7b8.29bb83f4@aol.com> <9ndo8usvh5bdr77g1ta0ll1lj0f55li5al@4ax.com> <00b601c1c910$623e6300$bb82fea9@palladio1> <u4pp8uo71fmnq07nmua5u8lu5u2ck26eb7@4ax.com>
Subject: Re: Braking (motorcycles) --> SPORTBIKES -- MSF bashing
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:35:09 -0500
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Well for starters you questioned the riding skills of hundreds of people
you've never met and implied we're all idiots, don't know anything about
sport riding, etc., for following the curriculum that's been vetted through
many years of experience.  Is what MSF teaches perfect and above reproach,
of course not, but it's a damn sight better than anything else for rank
newbies or some of the "conventional wisdom" you hear.

Paul in DC
95 VFR750F - 86 VF500F

----- Original Message -----
From: <daniel_ex250@XXXXXX>



I'm not bashing MSF,  I'm glad it exists. ..

I have yet to see anyone bashing MSF.





From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 12:36:25 2002
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Scott,

What was your plate number iin the 750 race?  I have it on tape and digital recording.  I will look for the ignominious pass.

Chuck

Original Message: <SNIP>

new dontcha know.  I heard I actually got airtime on the 750 race....as I got 
lapped by the leaders...DOH!  Oh well....next year I'll hopefully have 
figured out how to ride...I hope.  :)

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From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 13:04:36 2002
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From: SKeener2@XXXXXX
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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 13:03:49 EST
Subject: Re: MSF bashing
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In a message dated 3/11/02 12:20:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
daniel_ex250@XXXXXX writes:


> If you work on your rolling endos every time you come to that last
> traffic light before you get to your home, does that count as
> practicing your braking?  heheh

Uh...not always...but ocassionally I'm a squid.

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 3/11/02 12:20:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, daniel_ex250@XXXXXX writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">If you work on your rolling endos every time you come to that last<BR>
traffic light before you get to your home, does that count as<BR>
practicing your braking?&nbsp; heheh</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Uh...not always...but ocassionally I'm a squid.</FONT></HTML>

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From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 13:05:40 2002
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In a message dated 3/11/02 12:36:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
cvkgpena@XXXXXX writes:


> Scott,
> 
> What was your plate number iin the 750 race?  I have it on tape and digital 
> recording.  I will look for the ignominious pass.
> 
> Chuck

Uh...you mean Steve?  :)  My AMA number is 229.  

Keener

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 3/11/02 12:36:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, cvkgpena@XXXXXX writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Scott,<BR>
<BR>
What was your plate number iin the 750 race?&nbsp; I have it on tape and digital recording.&nbsp; I will look for the ignominious pass.<BR>
<BR>
Chuck</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Uh...you mean Steve?&nbsp; :)&nbsp; My AMA number is 229.&nbsp; <BR>
<BR>
Keener</FONT></HTML>

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From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 13:16:43 2002
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No, I meant Scott.  Who's Steve?  And why are you pretending to be Scott? %^)

Original Message:
-----------------
From:  SKeener2@XXXXXX
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 13:05:29 EST
To: cvkgpena@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: MSF bashing


In a message dated 3/11/02 12:36:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
cvkgpena@XXXXXX writes:


> Scott,
> 
> What was your plate number iin the 750 race?  I have it on tape and digital 
> recording.  I will look for the ignominious pass.
> 
> Chuck

Uh...you mean Steve?  :)  My AMA number is 229.  

Keener

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From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 13:17:26 2002
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From: "S. Moyer" <smoyer72@XXXXXX>
Subject: braking thread
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Long time lurker here.  Still enjoying the front vs. rear braking thread that Dysart
stared over a week ago now...  wondering when it will ever end.

Guess the Mofos are best at avoiding the whole argument in the first place - they just
don't use the brakes at all.

-moyer

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From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 13:19:29 2002
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In a message dated 3/11/02 1:16:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
cvkgpena@XXXXXX writes:


> No, I meant Scott.  Who's Steve?  And why are you pretending to be Scott? 
> %^)

:-P

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 3/11/02 1:16:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, cvkgpena@XXXXXX writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">No, I meant Scott.&nbsp; Who's Steve?&nbsp; And why are you pretending to be Scott? %^)</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
:-P</FONT></HTML>

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From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 13:26:47 2002
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From: "Custer, Carl" <Carl.Custer@XXXXXX>
To: "'DCCycles'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Compression gauge adapter
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Took advantage of Sears' 10% off this week end and snagged a compression
gauge for $22.50 +tax (Same as $30 gauges at Trak & PepBoys) 
Alas, when I got home, I realized that it (& the ones at Trak & Pep Boyz)
don't have the smaller (12mm?) thread adapters that fit motorcycle plugs.  
Snap On has one for $30 (gee whillikers!) 
IIRC reading about someone who cobbled one from an old spark plug -- but --
before I try that, I'll machine one from Delrin or poly-summate. 
But first, I'll whine and beg the list for suggestions as to cheap sources
for adaptors.

Carl in Brr-thesda 


From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 13:29:21 2002
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On Mon, 11 March 2002, "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" wrote:

> 
> Y'know, this is a "family" list (geez, did I just agree with Gimer???) and we definitely don't need to know about you "rear ending" Roach! %^)
> 
Oops.  Sorry, I must have gotten confused and responded to the wrong list...oh yea, motorcycles...

LAG


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From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 13:30:57 2002
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From: SKeener2@XXXXXX
Message-ID: <146.ade1bc6.29be51ce@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 13:30:38 EST
Subject: Re: GS brakes (was: MSF bashing)
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In a message dated 3/11/02 11:58:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
pattonme@XXXXXX writes:


> GS brakes weak? Well compared to the likes of a modern dual-disk sport
> bike I guess they could be considered as such. But I think they are
> really quite excellent. Normally the gotcha with the GS is really weak
> front suspension. The GS is a light bike an unless you're a big
> lard-ass the setup is just fine. Now try a cb750 (easy +100lbs) on a
> single disk and 2-pot caliper. That's weak.

Hey now...that resembles me!!!  :)

Keener

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 3/11/02 11:58:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, pattonme@XXXXXX writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">GS brakes weak? Well compared to the likes of a modern dual-disk sport<BR>
bike I guess they could be considered as such. But I think they are<BR>
really quite excellent. Normally the gotcha with the GS is really weak<BR>
front suspension. The GS is a light bike an unless you're a big<BR>
lard-ass the setup is just fine. Now try a cb750 (easy +100lbs) on a<BR>
single disk and 2-pot caliper. That's weak.</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Hey now...that resembles me!!!&nbsp; :)<BR>
<BR>
Keener</FONT></HTML>

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From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 13:34:03 2002
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From: <sdave@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Cc: 
Subject: re:  braking thread  

A mysterious lurker fanned the flames -

Long time lurker here.  Still enjoying the front vs. rear braking 
thread that Dysart stared over a week ago now...  wondering when it 
will ever end.


   <DJY>  This little campfire pales in comparison to the mid 90's 
brake thread forest fire ;-)  Nobody's even unsubbed in protest 
yet...  Doesn't look like it's over yet though :-)   

And Glen(n?) has been conspicuously absent from the discussion...  

Dave 


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From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 13:35:47 2002
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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:35:46 -0600 (CST)
From: Fish Flowers <fish@XXXXXX>
To: DC-Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Automated Speeding Ticket
In-Reply-To: <4pnp8ucafcn656pbhoaaisbd9qeqlkhsvv@4ax.com>
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On Mon, 11 Mar 2002 daniel_ex250@XXXXXX wrote:

> They can't identify you, yet they are charging you with the crime.

I'm not too keen on the fine, or the speed limit on that stretch of road,
or the automated ticketing mechanism... but I must say that I can't get
too upset that it's me they're fining. It's my vehicle, and I'm
responsible for it. It wasn't stolen, which means either that I was
piloting the damn thing at the time, or that I'd entrusted it to someone
else. Either way, it's my problem. If it were someone else driving, I
might be interested in pursuing them for money to pay the fine, but that's
my affair.

Of course, if points were being assigned to my license for someone else's
idiocy, that would be different. As it stands, though, I'll take it like a
grownup.

One wonders if these automatic ticketing mechanisms send tickets to people
who were going 8 mph above the limit? 4 mph? 2 mph? And if so, does the
fine vary?

Fish.
founder, society for vigilante destruction of red light cameras

... and yes, that's a joke


From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 13:43:16 2002
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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 13:43:02 -0500
From: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Automated Speeding Ticket
To: Fish Flowers <fish@XXXXXX>
Cc: DC-Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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Fish Flowers wrote:
> 
> Fish.
> founder, society for vigilante destruction of red light cameras
> 
> ... and yes, that's a joke

No, it's not.  Where do I join?  :)

-- 
Same old Hork, but new email - horkster@XXXXXX

Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)

Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 

'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer  
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi 
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 14:21:22 2002
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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:16:10 -0500
To: DC-Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Bob Meyer <bob@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Automated Speeding Ticket
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0203111227320.579-100000@harper.uchicago.edu
 >
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At 12:35 PM 3/11/2002 -0600, you wrote:

>I'm not too keen on the fine, or the speed limit on that stretch of road,
>or the automated ticketing mechanism... but I must say that I can't get
>too upset that it's me they're fining. It's my vehicle, and I'm
>responsible for it. It wasn't stolen, which means either that I was
>piloting the damn thing at the time, or that I'd entrusted it to someone
>else. Either way, it's my problem. If it were someone else driving, I
>might be interested in pursuing them for money to pay the fine, but that's
>my affair.



Hmm, so if you lend your cage to someone, and they rob a 7-11 using it, 
you're responsible, because they used your car?  Of perhaps a better 
analogy:  you lend someone your gun to go target shooting, and they use it 
to rob the 7-11.  Are you responsible?

Vehicles don't speed, or run red lights, by themselves.  Drivers and riders 
are responsible for making them do those things.  And up until fairly 
recently, only the driver could be charged with doing so.   Ever hear of 
innocent until PROVEN guilty?   That means you get a day in court, any 
witnesses have to testify that they saw YOU commit a crime, and you can 
cross examine those witnesses.

Then along comes Lockheed, with it's get-rich-quick scheme for local 
governments, and all of a sudden those same governments need to find a way 
around 200 years of case law.  How can the camera testify that YOU were 
driving?  How can you cross examine a camera? Sounds like a big 
problem.   Ah ha!  We just won't call speeding a crime if it's witnessed by 
a camera, we'll call it a civil violation!

So if a cop sees you going 75 in a 55, it's a crime and you get points.  If 
a camera sees you going 75 in a 55, the exact same action becomes a civil 
violation, not a crime.  Give me a break.  Some smart lawyer ought to take 
a state to court and claim unequal enforcement of the law:  either speeding 
is a crime, in which case speed cameras should be inadmissable, or speeding 
is NOT a crime, in which case no points should be assessed, ever.

The states probably wouldn't object to the latter, since revenue is the 
primary goal of speed enforcement anyway.  But the insurance industry would 
sure lobby hard against it, because w/o points how would they jack up your 
rates to ensure inflated profits on mandatory insurance.

TW,
Bob Meyer
'92 ST1100 (Red STag), STOC #1157
=====================================================
People are more violently opposed to fur than leather,
because it's safer to pick on rich women than biker gangs.


From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 14:21:23 2002
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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:19:28 -0500
To: DC-Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Bob Meyer <bob@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Automated Speeding Ticket
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At 01:43 PM 3/11/2002 -0500, Dale Horstman wrote:
>Fish Flowers wrote:
> >
> > Fish.
> > founder, society for vigilante destruction of red light cameras
> >
> > ... and yes, that's a joke
>
>No, it's not.  Where do I join?  :)


Great Britain has passed a law regulating the use of speed cameras.  In 
many instances (though with some exceptions), they must be painted bright 
yellow (apparently drivers were slamming on their brakes when encountering 
one, causing a raft of rear-end collisions), can't be located too close 
together, and some other common sense rules.  I'll look for the article I 
saw, and post some more details if I find it.

In the meantime, if you live in Virginia, write your state 
legislators.  There was a bill introduced in the last sessions to ban red 
light cameras.  With enough popular support, maybe a ban can pass next year.



ITW,
Bob Meyer
'92 ST1100 (Red STag), STOC #1157
=====================================================
People are more violently opposed to fur than leather,
because it's safer to pick on rich women than biker gangs.


From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 14:58:00 2002
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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 13:57:59 -0600 (CST)
From: Fish Flowers <fish@XXXXXX>
To: DC-Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Automated Speeding Ticket
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On Mon, 11 Mar 2002, Bob Meyer wrote:

> Hmm, so if you lend your cage to someone, and they rob a 7-11 using
> it, you're responsible, because they used your car?  Or perhaps a
> better analogy:  you lend someone your gun to go target shooting, and
> they use it to rob the 7-11.  Are you responsible?

In these cases, no; but as you later point out, I am not being charged
with a criminal offense, merely levied a fine.

I agree with you that the rules/laws as they stand are arbitrary, irksome,
and possibly unconstitutional. I've often felt that most traffic
enforcement is arbitrary.

But that doesn't mean that responsibility shouldn't enter into it. To use
your example of lending someone a gun for target practice which they then
use to rob a store: yes, I would hold myself somewhat responsible for
that. Under the law, I agree that I shouldn't be prosecuted, but that
doesn't mean I didn't bollocks it up by loaning a lethal weapon[1] to an
untrustworthy idiot. I should have known better. (Of course, mistakes
happen, and anyway I'm a terrible judge of character.)

Fish.
i resent being called an irresponsible idiot... i'm a responsible one

[1] -- a'course, your average motor vehicle can be just as deadly as a
firearm... if not more so


From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 17:36:12 2002
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From: Rob J <rob@XXXXXX>
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To: DC-Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Motorcycle Registration in VA?
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Hey all,

Was just wondering what the policy is for motorcycle registration in VA.
I remember reading somewhere that they require you to have your bike
inspected before you can register it, but in looking at the VA DMV website
it doesn't make any mention of this.

Can I title/register my bike in VA, get the tags, then take it to go get
inspected?  Or do I have to find a way to get the bike to an inspection
station before I can register it?

Thanks.

Rob


From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 18:25:58 2002
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From: "Dave Yates" <sdave@XXXXXX>
To: "'Rob J'" <rob@XXXXXX>, "'DC-Cycles'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Motorcycle Registration in VA?
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:22:51 -0500
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Rob asks -

Can I title/register my bike in VA, get the tags, then take it to go get
inspected?  Or do I have to find a way to get the bike to an inspection
station before I can register it?


	<DJY>  I moved from the Peoples Republic of Maryland last year, and
while still legally using MD tags, I got my inspection, went to DMV &
got my permanent tags, registration & title in one swell foop.  I
believe you can get title / tags / registration without safety
inspection, but I thought it would be less hassle to just get the
inspection 1st...

HTH


Dave Yates
'90 ZX11 'Acceleratus Maximus'
LTT customized M96G EII 'Little Friend'
http://www.radix.net/~sdave/


From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 18:28:40 2002
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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:28:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Dysart <glenn_dysart@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Motorcycle Registration in VA?
To: Rob J <rob@XXXXXX>, DC-Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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Yes

Glenn
--- Rob J <rob@XXXXXX> wrote:
<snip>
> Can I title/register my bike in VA, get the tags,
> then take it to go get
> inspected?  Or do I have to find a way to get the
> bike to an inspection
> station before I can register it?

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 18:29:11 2002
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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:28:52 EST
From: Boiade@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Braking (motorcycles) --> SPORTBIKES
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Bob,

If you are an excellent rider/racer and have the ability to modulate the rear brake accurately when riding at racing speeds and in racing dynamics it can be an excellent tool for pre-turn set-up and an equally effective tool for bringing the rear wheel around in a controlled slide but for slowing down it really isn't a factor.  I'm not that talented so I don't use it for those purposes.  Engine braking provides about as much braking power to the rear wheel as can be sustained on a sport or race bike (even my 2-strokes) maximizing the power of the front brake.  Riding on the edge on the street (and a panic situation on the street is similar to what we do on the track at nearly every turn in terms of dynamics)I believe that the rear brake is just about as useful as on the track.  It provides little advantage and some risk.  

I don't deny that expert use of the rear brake with more careful use of the front brake will not stop you faster.  The question is, in racing or in a panic situation on the street, is the additional attention one has give to both brakes useful or advantageous?  The problem with instinctively using the rear brake is that, invariably, in panic situation a street rider, particularly a novice, will let adrenaline take over and press down just a little harder with his/her foot and become one of the single vehicle accident statistics mentioned in the Hurt Report.   

This is the rationale other (European) motorcycle safety organizations use to discourage the use of the rear brake for novices.  

I like to think of the rear brake as an emergency brake.  At the Grand National Finals at Road Atlanta last fall I lost the front brake at mid race and I continued to race using the rear, very carefully.  People I passed easily earlier in the race went by me, but at least I finished.  I certainly wouldn't race without a rear brake, it is useful when one takes an off track excursion and when the front brake goes away for some reason.

You may be more talented than most and can safely use the rear brake while riding on the edge, for a majority of riders and racers this is not the case.

Fred

From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 19:14:54 2002
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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 19:14:46 -0500
Subject: Re: Summer riding pants
From: Bob McKeithen <bmckeithen@XXXXXX>
To: George Cole <George.Cole@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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on 3/11/02 8:48 AM, George Cole at George.Cole@XXXXXX wrote:

> I could use a pair of these just for working in the garage etc...
> 
> According to the website they are $ 44 a pair, where did you get the $ 25
> price?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> George Cole
> 01 FZ1
> 
>>>> Bob McKeithen <bmckeithen@XXXXXX> 03/08/02 08:43PM >>>
> I just received what may an interesting alternative to expensive riding
> jeans from an outfit called JD American Workwear. They are a very heavy
> denim jean with padded leather covered knees and leather covered butt. The
> good news is they are on sale for $25 a pair--the bad news is they are going
> out of business on 1April. Check the website at http://www.jdamerican.com
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> 
By phone


From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 19:27:26 2002
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LAURA GRANATO wrote:

> I can attest to this after almost rear-ending Roach on his ducati on the way to a bike night.  It was the first time being on my GS since I'd been racing and didn't realize just how little of front brakes my GS had. :)
>
> Ooooops!
> LAG
>

Your squeezer must be out of practice.  I would guess that you could go over the limit and lock the front wheel with those so called weak calipers.

Bill


From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 19:32:07 2002
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To: "Custer, Carl" <Carl.Custer@XXXXXX>
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Dang.  I thought all compression gauge sets came with both standard plug
sizes.  Mine does and I think it's Craftsman.  Has a quick connect like air
compressor hoses for the two in the hole parts.

Bill

Custer, Carl wrote:

> Took advantage of Sears' 10% off this week end and snagged a compression
> gauge for $22.50 +tax (Same as $30 gauges at Trak & PepBoys)
> Alas, when I got home, I realized that it (& the ones at Trak & Pep Boyz)
> don't have the smaller (12mm?) thread adapters that fit motorcycle plugs.
> Snap On has one for $30 (gee whillikers!)
> IIRC reading about someone who cobbled one from an old spark plug -- but --
> before I try that, I'll machine one from Delrin or poly-summate.
> But first, I'll whine and beg the list for suggestions as to cheap sources
> for adaptors.
>
> Carl in Brr-thesda


From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 19:49:26 2002
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Subject: Re: Automated speeding ticket
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In-Reply-To: <200203120001.g2C01Gv20973@dirty.meretrix.com>
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"Then along comes Lockheed, with it's get-rich-quick scheme for local
governments, and all of a sudden those same governments need to find
a way around 200 years of case law."

Lockheed Martin did indeed use its technology and know how to
maximize its shareholders wealth...but it should be noted that they
sold off that operating unit back in November 2001.  Lockheed is no
longer in the red light/speed camera business. 

Herb
'99 VFR 


__________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 19:54:52 2002
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From: "Laura Granato" <lgranato@XXXXXX>
To: "William J. Huson" <bhuson@XXXXXX>
Cc: <SKeener2@XXXXXX>, <sdave@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
References: <20020311164642.22521.cpmta@c002.snv.cp.net> <3C8D4AFF.7C063B64@patriot.net>
Subject: Re: MSF bashing
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 20:04:40 -0500
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>
> Your squeezer must be out of practice.  I would guess that you could go
over the limit and lock the front wheel with those so called weak calipers.
>
nah, squeezer is just fine...just didn't realize the *true* difference
between race bike brake set up and street bike brakes.

LAG


From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 20:19:12 2002
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From: "Howard J. Koontz" <HOFOJOKO@XXXXXX>
To: <danniedavis@XXXXXX>
Cc: <jarvis22201@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: The straw that "braked" the camel's back
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danniedavis@XXXXXX offers:

jesus H christ     please stop       :(

I reply: A-freakin' men. For god's sake, man, when are y'all gonna realize
you're just arguing and arguing and arguing and arguing and arguing and
arguing and arguing and arguing and arguing and arguing and  arguing and
arguing and arguing and arguing and arguing and arguing and arguing and
arguing and arguing and arguing, and you're not getting any-freakin' where.
No one is swaying anyone else's opinion, and facts/half-truths/out-right
lies just keep getting flung around. Can this maybe be taken off list
amongst the principals until you've all come to a decision. We'd like maybe
a little 2-minute book report of your findings, but please find the findings
in private.

I keep thinking about that comparison between internet arguing and winning
the Special Olympics. It's terribly insensitive but accurate in this
instance.

Let's start a Daytona results thread or something. Someone tell me something
about the other sanctioning bodies' races that I didn't see on SV.

Howard J. Koontz
2001 Harley Davidson FLHT Electra Glide Standard
1972 Honda Z50AK3 Mini Trail Resto Project (Terminally For Sale)



From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 20:43:40 2002
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From: Brian Roach <roach@XXXXXX>
Reply-To: roach@XXXXXX
To: "William J. Huson" <bhuson@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: MSF bashing
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 20:42:56 -0500
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On Monday 11 March 2002 19:25, you wrote:

> Your squeezer must be out of practice.  I would guess that you could go
> over the limit and lock the front wheel with those so called weak calipers.

Actually... it's more of a difference between a 300lbs Aprilia two-stroke 
race bike which comes equiped with dual discs and the same Brembo calipers 
found on a Ducati 900ss, equiped with Performance Friction sintered pads vs. 
a 400lbs GS500 with stock pads, stock lines, etc ... grab a handful on the 
aprilia and you're staring at your own front number plate. Grab a handfull on 
the GS and you stop... eventually :)

- Roach

From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 20:48:43 2002
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From: Rob J <rob@XXXXXX>
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To: DC-Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Motorcycle Registration in VA?
In-Reply-To: <000401c1c953$af930140$3b81c0cf@nih.gov>
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On Mon, 11 Mar 2002, Dave Yates wrote:

> Rob asks -
>
> Can I title/register my bike in VA, get the tags, then take it to go get
> inspected?  Or do I have to find a way to get the bike to an inspection
> station before I can register it?
>
>
> 	<DJY>  I moved from the Peoples Republic of Maryland last year, and
> while still legally using MD tags, I got my inspection, went to DMV &
> got my permanent tags, registration & title in one swell foop.  I
> believe you can get title / tags / registration without safety
> inspection, but I thought it would be less hassle to just get the
> inspection 1st...

Excellent.  I just bought this bike from someone in MD, so it has never
been in VA before.  I just wanted to get it titled/tagged/registered
before I had someone take it out to get it inspected.

Thanks for the info!

Rob


From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 20:51:51 2002
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Subject: Re: MSF bashing
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 21:01:42 -0500
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>
> Actually... it's more of a difference between a 300lbs Aprilia two-stroke
> race bike which comes equiped with dual discs and the same Brembo calipers
> found on a Ducati 900ss, equiped with Performance Friction sintered pads
vs.
> a 400lbs GS500 with stock pads, stock lines, etc ... grab a handful on the
> aprilia and you're staring at your own front number plate. Grab a handfull
on
> the GS and you stop... eventually :)
>
> - Roach

Yea, what he said!  That's exactly what I meant.

LAG



From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 20:57:42 2002
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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 20:55:51 -0500
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Andrew Culpepper <biga@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Daytona 200 afternoon
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At 07:44 PM 3/10/02 , you wrote:
>Thanks to all who showed up at Grevey's to watch the Daytona 200 this 
>afternoon.  We had a small crowd of about 20 people.  So where was 
>everyone else???

Petty Tower, Section T, Row 47, Seat 1 :-)

Andrew


From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 21:05:16 2002
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 cvkgpena@XXXXXX writes:

> Thanks to all who showed up at Grevey's to watch the Daytona 200 this 
> afternoon.  We had a small crowd of about 20 people.  So where was 
> everyone else???
> 

  In the infield, the pits, enjoying the 80 degree temps. Missed you, though. 
 :)

Steve Broadstreet
ZX-9

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2> cvkgpena@XXXXXX writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Thanks to all who showed up at Grevey's to watch the Daytona 200 this <BR>
afternoon.&nbsp; We had a small crowd of about 20 people.&nbsp; So where was <BR>
everyone else???<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
&nbsp; In the infield, the pits, enjoying the 80 degree temps. Missed you, though.&nbsp; :)<BR>
<BR>
Steve Broadstreet<BR>
ZX-9</FONT></HTML>

--part1_127.d671553.29bebc44_boundary--

From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 21:05:32 2002
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From: Brian Roach <roach@XXXXXX>
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To: Andrew Culpepper <biga@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Daytona 200 afternoon
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 21:03:08 -0500
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On Monday 11 March 2002 20:55, Andrew Culpepper wrote:
> At 07:44 PM 3/10/02 , you wrote:
> >Thanks to all who showed up at Grevey's to watch the Daytona 200 this
> >afternoon.  We had a small crowd of about 20 people.  So where was
> >everyone else???
>
> Petty Tower, Section T, Row 47, Seat 1 :-)

Inquiring minds want to know: Did you ride the EX all the way down there??

- Roach

From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 21:14:05 2002
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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 21:14:57 -0500
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From: Larry Larson <pltrgyst@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Motorcycle Registration in VA?
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>Excellent.  I just bought this bike from someone in MD, so it has never
>been in VA before.  I just wanted to get it titled/tagged/registered
>before I had someone take it out to get it inspected.

Sorry, but you have to have it inspected *before* VA DMV will register it.
The DMV agent will insist on having the pink inspection slip in his/her hot
little hand.

When dealing with a MD moto dealer, like Free State Cycle, if you want
them to get your VA plates,  they will do it, but first you have to take the
bike with temporary MD plates, get a VA inspection, and bring the VA
inspection slip back to the dealer so the dealer can get the plates.

-- Larry






From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 21:16:08 2002
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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 21:12:36 -0500
Subject: I'm back - got a question
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From: Tom Fitzpatrick <celticracing@XXXXXX>

Been gone for a couple of weeks, and I was wondering.   What are the
merits of using the rear brake when braking?  Has this ever been
discussed before?

Thanks!

Tom Fitzpatrick CCS#80'6  (www.celticracing.com) Sponsors:
*Fast Lane Cycles - fastlanecycles@XXXXXX  (703)818-8890
(www.fastlanecycles.com)
*Barnacle Bill's Racing Leathers - barnacle@XXXXXX
(www.racingleather.com)
*N&B Racing Racer Web Sites - rchapin@XXXXXX
(www.nbracesites.com)
*Janet Bell TAX Prep (belljan@XXXXXX)*Ohlins USA(828)692-4525
mike.watt@XXXXXX

From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 21:20:30 2002
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From: "Dave Yates" <sdave@XXXXXX>
To: "'Tom Fitzpatrick'" <celticracing@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: I'm back - got a question
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 21:16:40 -0500
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Hey - can anyone send the last 7 or so days of DCC Archives to Tom ???  

How about we ALL do it ????   

Dave Yates
'90 ZX11 'Acceleratus Maximus'
LTT customized M96G EII 'Little Friend'
http://www.radix.net/~sdave/ 

Been gone for a couple of weeks, and I was wondering.   What are the
merits of using the rear brake when braking?  Has this ever been
discussed before?

Thanks!

Tom Fitzpatrick 

From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 21:26:27 2002
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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 21:24:38 -0500
To: roach@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Andrew Culpepper <biga@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Daytona 200 afternoon
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At 09:03 PM 3/11/02 , Brian Roach wrote:
>On Monday 11 March 2002 20:55, Andrew Culpepper wrote:
> > At 07:44 PM 3/10/02 , you wrote:
> > >Thanks to all who showed up at Grevey's to watch the Daytona 200 this
> > >afternoon.  We had a small crowd of about 20 people.  So where was
> > >everyone else???
> >
> > Petty Tower, Section T, Row 47, Seat 1 :-)
>
>Inquiring minds want to know: Did you ride the EX all the way down there??

Yes, but I took two days each way.

Too bad I missed you and Keener on the first weekend.  Good job!


Andrew C.
'90 EX500
'01 ZR-7S


From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 21:31:43 2002
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Subject: Re: I'm back - got a question
In-Reply-To: <20020311.211241.-644313.0.CelticRacing@juno.com>
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Tom --

It's OK to apply rear brake except if you use synthetic oil.

8-P

-ph

On Mon, 11 Mar 2002, Tom Fitzpatrick wrote:

> Been gone for a couple of weeks, and I was wondering.   What are the
> merits of using the rear brake when braking?  Has this ever been
> discussed before?
> 
> Thanks!



From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 21:33:03 2002
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Subject: Re: MSF bashing
References: <20020311164642.22521.cpmta@c002.snv.cp.net> <3C8D4AFF.7C063B64@patriot.net> <02031120425608.00780@firewall.dcc-racing.org>
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Brian Roach wrote:

> On Monday 11 March 2002 19:25, you wrote:
>
> > Your squeezer must be out of practice.  I would guess that you could go
> > over the limit and lock the front wheel with those so called weak calipers.
>
> Actually... it's more of a difference between a 300lbs Aprilia two-stroke
> race bike which comes equiped with dual discs and the same Brembo calipers
> found on a Ducati 900ss, equiped with Performance Friction sintered pads vs.
> a 400lbs GS500 with stock pads, stock lines, etc ... grab a handful on the
> aprilia and you're staring at your own front number plate. Grab a handfull on
> the GS and you stop... eventually :)
>
> - Roach

Gotcha.  I guess if I got a shot of young and wanted to haul slug on the Harley I
could switch to steel lines, change pads, or even put on full floaters and multi
puck calipers.  That would no doubt make a differance, but hey, I'm old, I'm
slow, so I'll juts drift on down the road.

 I would expect a Duc or Aprilla to have that neat stuff.  After all, guys and
gals who hop on those want to go like hell, and hopefully stop as quick.

Bill


From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 21:38:21 2002
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From: Brian Roach <roach@XXXXXX>
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Subject: Re: Daytona 200 afternoon
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 21:37:43 -0500
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On Monday 11 March 2002 21:24, Andrew Culpepper wrote:
> At 09:03 PM 3/11/02 , Brian Roach wrote:

> >Inquiring minds want to know: Did you ride the EX all the way down there??
>
> Yes, but I took two days each way.

::shaking head:: 

You, my friend, are hardcore. 

I think the saddest thing I saw while we were down there were trailers... 
from FLORIDA.  I mean... I know most of them are poseurs, but geez... they 
can't even be bothered to ride across their own state?? Maybe I should 
trailer a bike from DE to VA for bike nights...

- Roach

From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 21:41:40 2002
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From: Brian Roach <roach@XXXXXX>
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Subject: Re: MSF bashing
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On Monday 11 March 2002 21:30, William J. Huson wrote:

>  I would expect a Duc or Aprilla to have that neat stuff.  After all, guys
> and gals who hop on those want to go like hell, and hopefully stop as
> quick.

The scary part is that the 900ss will stand on it's nose 
with those brakes... and it weighs about 140lbs more than the Aprilia.

First time I rode the Aprilia I about threw myself over the bars in T1 ... 
they stop it ... in a hurry.

- Roach

From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 21:52:36 2002
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To: Larry Larson <pltrgyst@XXXXXX>
CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, Rob J <rob@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Motorcycle Registration in VA?
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Larry Larson wrote:

> >Excellent.  I just bought this bike from someone in MD, so it has never
> >been in VA before.  I just wanted to get it titled/tagged/registered
> >before I had someone take it out to get it inspected.
>
> Sorry, but you have to have it inspected *before* VA DMV will register it.
> The DMV agent will insist on having the pink inspection slip in his/her hot
> little hand.
>

Since when?  The only time I needed an ispection was to take the riding test.
I've never been asked for safety inspection to register a vehicle of any kind,
truck, car, bike, or trailer.  For cars and light trucks you DO need emmisons to
register it.  Bikes are exempt.

Bill

> When dealing with a MD moto dealer, like Free State Cycle, if you want
> them to get your VA plates,  they will do it, but first you have to take the
> bike with temporary MD plates, get a VA inspection, and bring the VA
> inspection slip back to the dealer so the dealer can get the plates.
>
> -- Larry


From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 21:59:29 2002
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From: Glenn Dysart <glenn_dysart@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Motorcycle Registration in VA?
To: Larry Larson <pltrgyst@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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I've NEVER ran into this and I've probably registered
about 15 vehicles in the good old commonwealth.  I've
never been asked for the inspection slip.

Glenn

--- Larry Larson <pltrgyst@XXXXXX> wrote:
> 
> Sorry, but you have to have it inspected *before* VA
> DMV will register it.
> The DMV agent will insist on having the pink
> inspection slip in his/her hot
> little hand.
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
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From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 22:08:18 2002
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From: "Gary Foreman" <fj1100@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Motorcycle Registration in VA?
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:06:39 -0500
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Same here, NEVER had to produce an inspection ticket for a bike or a car
to register.

-----Original Message-----
From: Glenn Dysart [mailto:glenn_dysart@XXXXXX] 
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 9:59 PM
To: Larry Larson; dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Cc: Rob J
Subject: RE: Motorcycle Registration in VA?


I've NEVER ran into this and I've probably registered
about 15 vehicles in the good old commonwealth.  I've
never been asked for the inspection slip.

Glenn

--- Larry Larson <pltrgyst@XXXXXX> wrote:
> 
> Sorry, but you have to have it inspected *before* VA
> DMV will register it.
> The DMV agent will insist on having the pink
> inspection slip in his/her hot
> little hand.
> 


__________________________________________________
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Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
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From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 22:18:37 2002
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At 09:50 PM 3/11/2002, William J. Huson wrote:

> > Sorry, but you have to have it inspected *before* VA DMV will register it.
> > The DMV agent will insist on having the pink inspection slip in his/her hot
> > little hand.
> >
>
>Since when?  The only time I needed an ispection was to take the riding test.
>I've never been asked for safety inspection to register a vehicle of any kind,
>truck, car, bike, or trailer.  For cars and light trucks you DO need 
>emmisons to
>register it.  Bikes are exempt.

When I bought my GS500 from Free State last year, two clerks at the
Eisenhower Avenue DMV both required the pink inspection slip *before*
issuing the title and registration. No emissions required, of course -- just
the safety inspection.

When I took the VA riding test a few months later, also at the Eisenhower
DMV, they did not ask for either registration or inspection slip (good thing,
since I've never remembered to put the inspection slip on the bike or in my
wallet).

Maybe it's left to the individual inspector's whim.

-- Larry








From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 22:22:11 2002
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>From: Glenn Dysart [mailto:glenn_dysart@XXXXXX]
>Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 9:59 PM
>To: Larry Larson; dc-cycles@XXXXXX
>Cc: Rob J
>Subject: RE: Motorcycle Registration in VA?
>
>
>I've NEVER ran into this and I've probably registered
>about 15 vehicles in the good old commonwealth.  I've
>never been asked for the inspection slip.

I haven't either on cars, but the new bike from MD seemed to be a
different story. It *was* a royal pain in the patoot.

-- Larry






From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 22:30:14 2002
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Larry Larson wrote:

> When I bought my GS500 from Free State last year, two clerks at the
> Eisenhower Avenue DMV both required the pink inspection slip *before*
> issuing the title and registration. No emissions required, of course -- just
> the safety inspection.
>

Very strange.  Methinks you had a trainer clerk.  When I got the title for the
Norton the clerk in Shirlington was trying her damndest to sell me a tag.
Inspection?  HA!  The project bike had no electrics at all, no fenders, and no
exhaust.  No problem the lady would have sold me a tag or fixed me up with an
antique tag.

> When I took the VA riding test a few months later, also at the Eisenhower
> DMV, they did not ask for either registration or inspection slip (good thing,
> since I've never remembered to put the inspection slip on the bike or in my
> wallet).

If you have a tag and the inspection sticker showing, no need to ask for the paper
proof.  I didn't even own the bike I took my test on, and therefore had no papers
to give them had they asked..

Bill


From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 11 22:50:57 2002
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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:54:16 -0800
From: "Steven C. Di Pietro" <stevied65@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Throttlemeister
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"William J. Huson" wrote:

>
> The wrist rocker thangs look usable - might have to try one of those.
>
> Bill
>

Bill,
        I got's one of 'dem thangs. I used on a trip from Baltimore to Americade
in Lake George, NY just shy of the Canadian border, last year. Works great on long
stretches, and flips around out of your way when you hit the stops and go's. Snaps
on and off easy enough, for when you don't need it. Hey, for ten bucks, 'ya can't
beat it.

Steven C. Di Pietro
Assistant National Director
National Marketing Coordinator
Suzuki Owners Club USA
142 Circle Road
Pasadena Md. 21122-6036
http://www.soc-usa.org




From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar 12 07:27:03 2002
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Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 07:19:13 -0500
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From: Thomas Jordan <thomasajordan@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Compression gauge adapter
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>Snap On has one for $30 (gee whillikers!)

Mac tools... $6.95 ... Item #CT-110 (10mm thread (FZR400 and the 
like) or (I believe CT-112 for 12mm adapter)... Should be about the 
same price... This is just a small metal adapter that would thread 
onto the 14mm piece at the end of your hose...
-- 

From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar 12 07:58:51 2002
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No, no. &nbsp;Thats if you only use cage 0 weight mobile1. &nbsp;And only if purchased
at WalMart.<br>
<br>
Tom de. <br>
'98 VTR<br>
<br>
Peter Hartzler wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:Pine.LNX.4.44.0203112125240.29056-100000@XXXXXX">
  <pre wrap="">Tom --<br><br>It's OK to apply rear brake except if you use synthetic oil.<br><br>8-P<br><br>-ph<br><br>On Mon, 11 Mar 2002, Tom Fitzpatrick wrote:<br><br></pre>
  <blockquote type="cite">
    <pre wrap="">Been gone for a couple of weeks, and I was wondering.   What are the<br>merits of using the rear brake when braking?  Has this ever been<br>discussed before?<br><br>Thanks!<br></pre>
    </blockquote>
    <pre wrap=""><!----><br><br></pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    </body>
    </html>


From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar 12 09:07:05 2002
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My company is hiring for a sales lead generator if anyone is interested...here's the post.


Growing, fast-paced software company looking for an outgoing individual to prospect sales leads.  Qualities desired: excellent conversationalist, outgoing, sense of humor, and strategic thinking. Call Christian 703.891.4016. www.public-sector.com

They are not looking for an experienced sales person (which we've gotten a lot of calls for already).  They just want someone who can help qualify sales leads.

If you have any questions, let me know. If you know anyone who might be interested, feel free to cross post.

LAG


________________________________________________
PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart. 
http://www.peoplepc.com 

From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar 12 09:55:12 2002
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From: "Fisk, Euan" <efisk@XXXXXX>
To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Cc: "'fish@XXXXXX'" <fish@XXXXXX>
Subject: Automated Speeding Ticket
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 09:53:33 -0500
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DC's speeding cameras begin snapping your picture at 11mph over the
limit, so it looks like you just lucked out and hit the magic number.
Here's a handy list of locations of the photo-radar cameras:

http://mpdc.dc.gov/info/traffic/speedlocation_map.shtm

and here's the map/list for red light cameras:

http://mpdc.dc.gov/info/traffic/redlightloc.shtm

and remember, if you wheelie past them they can't see your plate.
-Euan

[...]
>One wonders if these automatic ticketing mechanisms send tickets to people
>who were going 8 mph above the limit? 4 mph? 2 mph? And if so, does the
>fine vary?
>
>Fish.




From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar 12 10:03:39 2002
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At 10:43 AM 3/11/02 -0500, JD wrote:
>On Sat, 9 Mar 2002, Wayne Edelen wrote:
>
>> Does anyone know if the GMRSX1 and FRSX2 are compatible? I have friends
>> with the GMRSX1 and I'm considering purchasing the FRSX2 (I'm cheap). The
>> X1 just seems to have more range than the X2.
>
>the  GMRSX1 and FRSX2 are compatible on the first 7 channels. The biggest
>differences are the GMRS units are 5 watts, vs. FRS at 0.5 watts. GMRS
>requires a license $75/5 years I believe, and no test. Just fill out the
>form and mail with a check. FRS is good for about 1/2-1 mile GMRS will do
>closer to 3-5 miles.
>
>I've done a bunch of traveling recently with FRS in the car and had
>numerous occasions where I could see another car ahead of me on the road
>but could not talk to them. I'd save up the money and get the GMRS unit.
>
>-jd

Thanks for the info, JD.  I'll keep scraping up those pennies and get the
GMRS.

Now... who has the cheapest prices on the Chatterbox?  :-)

-- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/

From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar 12 10:26:23 2002
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From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
To: "Steven C. Di Pietro" <stevied65@XXXXXX>
Cc: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
References: <011701c1c8ae$948826a0$c938e2cf@micron><3C8C9CD4.D015724@patriot.net> <3C8DA618.6F8687ED@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Throttlemeister
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 10:25:08 -0500
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I really like the Throttlerocker and Vista-Cruise combination on my VFR, as
I've found it has greatly added to my comfort on long trips.  Ten hours in
the saddle are no problem.  Before I got them you could have hit my right
hand with a hammer and I wouldn't have felt a thing after an all-day trip.
Kinda scary reaching for the brake lever and realizing your hand has no
strength in it.  Now with the Vista-Cruise I can lock down the throttle for
five minutes at a time on flat highways and take the load off.  Other times
a little downward pressure with the heel of the palm keeps the throttle
rolled on.

www.wilsonline.org/vfr/throttle.jpg

One caveat is that the Vista-Cruise is not "plug and play."  It required
some modifications to fit and I need to shave down the lever a bit so it
doesn't hit the tank.  YMMV.

Paul in DC
95 VFR750F - 86 VF500F
Join the VFR750 list >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vfr750
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven C. Di Pietro" <stevied65@XXXXXX>
To: "William J. Huson" <bhuson@XXXXXX>
Cc: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 1:54 AM
Subject: Re: Throttlemeister


>
>
> "William J. Huson" wrote:
>
> >
> > The wrist rocker thangs look usable - might have to try one of those.
> >
> > Bill
> >
>
> Bill,
>         I got's one of 'dem thangs. I used on a trip from Baltimore to
Americade
> in Lake George, NY just shy of the Canadian border, last year. Works great
on long
> stretches, and flips around out of your way when you hit the stops and
go's. Snaps
> on and off easy enough, for when you don't need it. Hey, for ten bucks,
'ya can't
> beat it.
>
> Steven C. Di Pietro
> Assistant National Director
> National Marketing Coordinator
> Suzuki Owners Club USA
> 142 Circle Road
> Pasadena Md. 21122-6036
> http://www.soc-usa.org
>
>
>




From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar 12 10:35:57 2002
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Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 07:35:56 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Automated Speeding Ticket
To: "Fisk, Euan" <efisk@XXXXXX>,
   "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Cc: "'fish@XXXXXX'" <fish@XXXXXX>
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Euan!  Low time no see.  Hows it going?

Ok, I checked out this list.  Do ALL of these
locations have cameras?  I thought the cameras were in
cars, while the Red-light cameras were permanent?  Can
you see the car parked as you go by or have they
mounted the speed cameras on poles too.

I am most interested in:

200 - 1100 blocks of 3rd Street Tunnel 
100 - 400 blocks of 9th Street Tunnel 

Love to speed in tunnels.....

Mark

--- "Fisk, Euan" <efisk@XXXXXX> wrote:
> DC's speeding cameras begin snapping your picture at
> 11mph over the
> limit, so it looks like you just lucked out and hit
> the magic number.
> Here's a handy list of locations of the photo-radar
> cameras:
> 
>
http://mpdc.dc.gov/info/traffic/speedlocation_map.shtm
> 
> and here's the map/list for red light cameras:
> 
> http://mpdc.dc.gov/info/traffic/redlightloc.shtm
> 
> and remember, if you wheelie past them they can't
> see your plate.
> -Euan
> 
> [...]
> >One wonders if these automatic ticketing mechanisms
> send tickets to people
> >who were going 8 mph above the limit? 4 mph? 2 mph?
> And if so, does the
> >fine vary?
> >
> >Fish.
> 
> 
> 


=====


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar 12 10:46:36 2002
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From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
To: "Mark Kitchell" <markkitchell@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
References: <20020312153556.29385.qmail@web13801.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Automated Speeding Ticket
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 10:46:12 -0500
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No, those are targeted enforcement areas that *might* have cameras on any
given day.  The vehicles used are unmarked Crown Vics, I believe.  Radar
cams are mounted in the vehicles.

Also I notice the DC government has a new agreement with the red light cam
folks.  The cam owner will now receive a flat fee, not a percentage of
ticket revenues.

MPD has also been having an off and on radar enforcement in the tunnels with
real live officers too. Pity, it's the smoothest pavement in all of DC.

Paul in DC

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Kitchell" <markkitchell@XXXXXX>

> Ok, I checked out this list.  Do ALL of these
> locations have cameras?  I thought the cameras were in
> cars, while the Red-light cameras were permanent?  Can
> you see the car parked as you go by or have they
> mounted the speed cameras on poles too.
>
> I am most interested in:
>
> 200 - 1100 blocks of 3rd Street Tunnel
> 100 - 400 blocks of 9th Street Tunnel
>
> Love to speed in tunnels.....
>
> Mark



From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar 12 11:08:23 2002
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Reply-To: <jmstrang@XXXXXX>
From: "Jon Strang" <jmstrang@XXXXXX>
To: "Mark Kitchell" <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Cc: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Automated Speeding Ticket
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:06:50 -0500
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Importance: Normal

You can still speed in tunnels, just accept the $75 toll
...and it's just like ez pass: no toll booth. woo-hoo!

--jon

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Kitchell [mailto:markkitchell@XXXXXX]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 10:36 AM
> To: Fisk, Euan; 'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'
> Cc: 'fish@XXXXXX'
> Subject: Re: Automated Speeding Ticket
> 
> 
> Euan!  Low time no see.  Hows it going?
> 
> Ok, I checked out this list.  Do ALL of these
> locations have cameras?  I thought the cameras were in
> cars, while the Red-light cameras were permanent?  Can
> you see the car parked as you go by or have they
> mounted the speed cameras on poles too.
> 
> I am most interested in:
> 
> 200 - 1100 blocks of 3rd Street Tunnel 
> 100 - 400 blocks of 9th Street Tunnel 
> 
> Love to speed in tunnels.....
> 
> Mark
> 
> --- "Fisk, Euan" <efisk@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > DC's speeding cameras begin snapping your picture at
> > 11mph over the
> > limit, so it looks like you just lucked out and hit
> > the magic number.
> > Here's a handy list of locations of the photo-radar
> > cameras:
> > 
> >
> http://mpdc.dc.gov/info/traffic/speedlocation_map.shtm
> > 
> > and here's the map/list for red light cameras:
> > 
> > http://mpdc.dc.gov/info/traffic/redlightloc.shtm
> > 
> > and remember, if you wheelie past them they can't
> > see your plate.
> > -Euan
> > 
> > [...]
> > >One wonders if these automatic ticketing mechanisms
> > send tickets to people
> > >who were going 8 mph above the limit? 4 mph? 2 mph?
> > And if so, does the
> > >fine vary?
> > >
> > >Fish.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> =====
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
> http://mail.yahoo.com/

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From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar 12 11:09:12 2002
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Subject: was Re: Automated Speeding Ticket now Jurisdiction enforcement
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Twice recently I've seen an officer standing shooting radar right outside
the E street tunnel heading towards 66 or the Whitehurst Freeway when
leaving work in the evening.  This confuses me, can I outrun him to VA and
not have to deal with him?  It's not that far.  Does he only care about
people going towards Whitehurst and staying in DC?  I've also seen an
officer sitting in a car facing VA where Constitution Ave and E St join
before.
The HOV cops standing on an exit ramp in VA on 66 tried to stop my
girlfriend over once for driving by herself and she just waved at them and
kept going.

 -----Original Message-----
From: 	Paul Wilson [mailto:pawilson@XXXXXX] 
Sent:	Tuesday, March 12, 2002 10:46 AM
To:	Mark Kitchell; dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject:	Re: Automated Speeding Ticket

No, those are targeted enforcement areas that *might* have cameras on any
given day.  The vehicles used are unmarked Crown Vics, I believe.  Radar
cams are mounted in the vehicles.

Also I notice the DC government has a new agreement with the red light cam
folks.  The cam owner will now receive a flat fee, not a percentage of
ticket revenues.

MPD has also been having an off and on radar enforcement in the tunnels with
real live officers too. Pity, it's the smoothest pavement in all of DC.

Paul in DC

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Kitchell" <markkitchell@XXXXXX>

> Ok, I checked out this list.  Do ALL of these
> locations have cameras?  I thought the cameras were in
> cars, while the Red-light cameras were permanent?  Can
> you see the car parked as you go by or have they
> mounted the speed cameras on poles too.
>
> I am most interested in:
>
> 200 - 1100 blocks of 3rd Street Tunnel
> 100 - 400 blocks of 9th Street Tunnel
>
> Love to speed in tunnels.....
>
> Mark


From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar 12 11:31:08 2002
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From: "Fisk, Euan" <efisk@XXXXXX>
To: "'Mark Kitchell'" <markkitchell@XXXXXX>,
   "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'"
	 <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Cc: "'fish@XXXXXX'" <fish@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Automated Speeding Ticket
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:29:29 -0500
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Hey Mark - things are going fine - been a long winter, 

Off duty officers in unmarked cruisers will rotate between 
these locations [from my experience most of these are dark 
gray ford crown vics - easily identifiable] but here's the
kicker; they stop at 10pm, and do not operate on Sundays,
so after that you were basically all set.  There were
plans last fall to begin using the permanent-type toaster
oven sized cameras mounted in fixed locations, and this may
well be what snagged Fish here, as I don't think it would be
too easy to position a cruiser on 295, or in the tunnels.
These would unfortunately not cease operation at 10pm :(
anyway, here's a quote from a MPD Traffic Division release:

"To maximize the program's flexibility and impact, the
 Metropolitan Police Department is using both fixed-location
 cameras and mobile photo radar units."

In other countries [UK for example] they will set up the 
housing boxes for cameras at all listed locations, and then
rotate the actual photo-radar units between these boxes,
supposedly increasing the 'visual deterrence' factor.

_____________________
Euan 
efisk@XXXXXX
'90 EX500 [trashed - temporarily]
'76 KZ400 [yep Glenn, still running strong]

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Kitchell [mailto:markkitchell@XXXXXX]
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 10:36 AM
To: Fisk, Euan; 'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'
Cc: 'fish@XXXXXX'
Subject: Re: Automated Speeding Ticket


Euan!  Low time no see.  Hows it going?

Ok, I checked out this list.  Do ALL of these
locations have cameras?  I thought the cameras were in
cars, while the Red-light cameras were permanent?  Can
you see the car parked as you go by or have they
mounted the speed cameras on poles too.

I am most interested in:

200 - 1100 blocks of 3rd Street Tunnel 
100 - 400 blocks of 9th Street Tunnel 

Love to speed in tunnels.....

Mark

--- "Fisk, Euan" <efisk@XXXXXX> wrote:
> DC's speeding cameras begin snapping your picture at
> 11mph over the
> limit, so it looks like you just lucked out and hit
> the magic number.
> Here's a handy list of locations of the photo-radar
> cameras:
> 
>
http://mpdc.dc.gov/info/traffic/speedlocation_map.shtm
> 
> and here's the map/list for red light cameras:
> 
> http://mpdc.dc.gov/info/traffic/redlightloc.shtm
> 
> and remember, if you wheelie past them they can't
> see your plate.
> -Euan
> 
> [...]
> >One wonders if these automatic ticketing mechanisms
> send tickets to people
> >who were going 8 mph above the limit? 4 mph? 2 mph?
> And if so, does the
> >fine vary?
> >
> >Fish.
> 
> 
> 


=====


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar 12 11:36:47 2002
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Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 10:36:46 -0600 (CST)
From: Fish Flowers <fish@XXXXXX>
To: DC-Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Automated Speeding Ticket
In-Reply-To: <C1C977326222D311B9CD00805FC7A8C29CCAE8@EXCHANGE>
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On Tue, 12 Mar 2002, Fisk, Euan wrote:

> There were plans last fall to begin using the permanent-type toaster
> oven sized cameras mounted in fixed locations, and this may well be
> what snagged Fish here, as I don't think it would be too easy to
> position a cruiser on 295, or in the tunnels.

Actually, I suspect it was a cruiser. There's a very broad shoulder on
southbound DC-295 between Pennsylvania Ave. and where it becomes I-295,
and I know I've seen cruisers parked there before.

I just figured they were doing standard pull-'em-over duty, though. Guess
I was wrong. Sigh.

Fish.


From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar 12 12:18:01 2002
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From: "Custer, Carl" <Carl.Custer@XXXXXX>
To: "'William J. Huson'" <bhuson@XXXXXX>
Cc: "'DCCycles'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Compression gauge adapter
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 12:21:27 -0500
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	Bill observed,
	"Dang.  I thought all compression gauge sets came with both standard
plug
> sizes.  Mine does and I think it's Craftsman.  Has a quick connect like
> air
> compressor hoses for the two in the hole parts.
> 
	[Custer, Carl]  
	Yup, the Sears device can fit 3 sizes: 18, 16, and 14 mm.
	Alas, my bikes take 12 mm plugs.

	Carl in Bethesda (contemplating whittling a 12 mm adapter or
replacing the Sears gauge with a JC Whit.) 


From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar 12 12:32:58 2002
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From: "Rob Keiser" <robkeiser@XXXXXX>
To: wayne@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Chatterbox questions
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 12:32:51 -0500
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Hey Wayne.

The best price I've seen on them is through Kiernan:

http://catalog.kiernanracing.com/browseGroup.cfm?item_group_id=46028

I've checked MAW and AZM and Kevin has the best price so far.  He even has a 
four pack deal that drops the price even further, and actually, a couple of 
us have been talking about getting them, too.  Maybe a group buy could be in 
order.  (did I just say that?)  uh oh... ;)

Now I just need to unload my Chatterbox 90 set up....offers anyone??

Rob
'98 VFR800


From: Wayne Edelen <wayne@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Chatterbox questions
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 10:13:45 -0500

At 10:43 AM 3/11/02 -0500, JD wrote:
 >On Sat, 9 Mar 2002, Wayne Edelen wrote:
 >
 >> Does anyone know if the GMRSX1 and FRSX2 are compatible? I have friends
 >> with the GMRSX1 and I'm considering purchasing the FRSX2 (I'm cheap). 
The
 >> X1 just seems to have more range than the X2.
 >
 >the  GMRSX1 and FRSX2 are compatible on the first 7 channels. The biggest
 >differences are the GMRS units are 5 watts, vs. FRS at 0.5 watts. GMRS
 >requires a license $75/5 years I believe, and no test. Just fill out the
 >form and mail with a check. FRS is good for about 1/2-1 mile GMRS will do
 >closer to 3-5 miles.
 >
 >I've done a bunch of traveling recently with FRS in the car and had
 >numerous occasions where I could see another car ahead of me on the road
 >but could not talk to them. I'd save up the money and get the GMRS unit.
 >
 >-jd

Thanks for the info, JD.  I'll keep scraping up those pennies and get the
GMRS.

Now... who has the cheapest prices on the Chatterbox?  :-)

-- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar 12 13:03:44 2002
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Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 10:03:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: new aggressive driving offense in VA
To: Todd Withrow <mtwithrow@XXXXXX>, matthew patton <pattonme@XXXXXX>,
   dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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--- Todd Withrow <mtwithrow@XXXXXX> wrote:
> 
> --- Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > good luck trying to prove that a client of mine had
> > the
> > intent to "harass, intimidate, or obstruct" a driver
> > and
> > his 3000+ pound vehicle while on his open-air
> > 400-700lb
> > defenseless motorcycle
> > 
> 
> You know as well as I do, that you don't have to PROVE
> anything, just make the jurors believe. There is a
> difference. Besides, roll up next to a petit, shy
> woman in a Geo Metro, shake your fist at her and tap
> on her window a couple of times. Do you think she
> could make a few jurors believe she was intimidated?
> Hell, for that matter, I bet you could convince a few
> jurors that revving the engine intimidated a driver.

come on.  i thought you were a police officer.

if the charge requires a specific intent (which this new
charge DOES), it requires the alleged perpetrator TO HAVE
INTENDED the effect required under the statute.

it makes no difference what effect was had on the "victim"
if i can show that my client lacked this specific intent.


--
tg

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
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From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar 12 13:57:52 2002
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Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 10:57:47 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: braking thread
To: "S. Moyer" <smoyer72@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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--- "S. Moyer" <smoyer72@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Long time lurker here.  Still enjoying the front vs. rear
> braking thread that Dysart
> stared over a week ago now...  wondering when it will
> ever end.

moyer finally comes out of hiding, eh?  now if we could
only flush out batson....

this thread (or a continued version of it) will never
end.... unlees, of course, manufacturers start making
linked brakes standard or rear brakes optional.


 
> Guess the Mofos are best at avoiding the whole argument
> in the first place - they just
> don't use the brakes at all.

incorrect.  the group makes a habit of stopping once every
~100 miles.



--
tg

__________________________________________________
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Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
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From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar 12 14:04:15 2002
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Custer, Carl wrote:

>         Bill observed,
>         "Dang.  I thought all compression gauge sets came with both standard
> plug
> > sizes.  Mine does and I think it's Craftsman.  Has a quick connect like
> > air
> > compressor hoses for the two in the hole parts.
> >
>         [Custer, Carl]
>         Yup, the Sears device can fit 3 sizes: 18, 16, and 14 mm.
>         Alas, my bikes take 12 mm plugs.
>
>         Carl in Bethesda (contemplating whittling a 12 mm adapter or
> replacing the Sears gauge with a JC Whit.)

My error.  Silly me, familiar with only two sizes - bigguns and littleuns.
Might have something to do with my antiquated vee-hi-cal fleet.

Bill


From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar 12 14:10:04 2002
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From: "Bruhl, George LT" <GBruhl@XXXXXX>
To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Front Brake Usage
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There's a pretty intelligent "street riding" book out called "Proficient
Motorcycling" by David Hough.  A good read for those off season nights when
TV just doesn't cut it.  Granted it is for street riding and he discusses
front and rear braking and/or stopping techniques.  
Over a period of more than 25 years, David Hough has written the column
"Proficient Motorcycling," first for Road Rider magazine and then for its
successor, Motorcycle Consumer News. During that time, he has covered
hundreds of topics relating to the skills needed for riding motorcycles
safely on the streets.


From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar 12 14:12:05 2002
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From: "Custer, Carl" <Carl.Custer@XXXXXX>
To: "'William J. Huson'" <bhuson@XXXXXX>
Cc: "'DCCycles'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Compression gauge adapter
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> >         [Custer, Carl]
> >         Yup, the Sears device can fit 3 sizes: 18, 16, and 14 mm.
> >         Alas, my bikes take 12 mm plugs.
	Hudson confessed, "My error.  Silly me, familiar with only two sizes
- bigguns and littleuns.
> Might have something to do with my antiquated vee-hi-cal fleet."
> 
	Personally, I think it's because you drive around on unbalanced
tires. :^>

	Carl in Bethesda (balanced tires, uses rear brake frequently, . . .)


From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar 12 14:15:30 2002
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Custer, Carl wrote:

> > >         [Custer, Carl]
> > >         Yup, the Sears device can fit 3 sizes: 18, 16, and 14 mm.
> > >         Alas, my bikes take 12 mm plugs.
>         Hudson confessed, "My error.  Silly me, familiar with only two sizes
> - bigguns and littleuns.
> > Might have something to do with my antiquated vee-hi-cal fleet."
> >
>         Personally, I think it's because you drive around on unbalanced
> tires. :^>
>
>         Carl in Bethesda (balanced tires, uses rear brake frequently, . . .)

Nah, probably `cause I use dyno oil & regular gas.

You're supposed to balance tires?


From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar 12 14:24:31 2002
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Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 14:25:49 -0500
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, vFR List <vfr@XXXXXX>
From: Justin Lemrow <firblt@XXXXXX>
Subject: FS Throttlemeister (VFR 800)
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All,

up for sale is my throttlemeister. It was fitted on a 1999 VFR 800.  The 
unit is in fine working condition. There is one scratch (~.5") on the right 
bar end where i dropped it.  If you position it right you'll never see 
it.  It does not affect functionality.  It's a great looking system and 
works well, but i've only used it twice. ;) First $75 takes it away, US 
shipping included.

Ride Safe,
Justin

1999 VFR 800
Northern VA/Washington DC


From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar 12 14:33:18 2002
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Subject: Someone lend me $20,000?
From: Sean Jordan <eternity23@XXXXXX>
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1810545521&r=
0&t=0

All together now:


Yummmmmmmm



Sean Jordan
Jordan Racing / DC-Cycles Racing


From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar 12 14:40:06 2002
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Subject: Lookie what Coleman Powersucks has....
From: Sean Jordan <eternity23@XXXXXX>
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1811678959&r=
0&t=0

I might just have to make the sacrifice and walk in there..... 
::shudder::


Sean Jordan
Jordan Racing / DC-Cycles Racing


From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar 12 15:06:42 2002
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From: Keith Lamond <keithlva@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Lookie what Coleman Powersucks has....
To: Sean Jordan <eternity23@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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They have one at MotoEuropa in Richmond.  Along with
people who know what they are talking about, and a
bunch of other cool Ducati bikes.

Isn't a trip to Richmond better than going to
Poserride?

Keith
--- Sean Jordan <eternity23@XXXXXX> wrote:
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1811678959&r=
> 0&t=0
> 
> I might just have to make the sacrifice and walk in
> there..... 
> ::shudder::
> 
> 
> Sean Jordan
> Jordan Racing / DC-Cycles Racing
> 


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Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 12:07:26 -0800 (PST)
From: Todd Withrow <mtwithrow@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: new aggressive driving offense in VA
To: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>, matthew patton <pattonme@XXXXXX>,
   dc-cycles@XXXXXX
In-Reply-To: <20020312180342.36394.qmail@web14608.mail.yahoo.com>
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--- Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX> wrote:
> --- Todd Withrow <mtwithrow@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > 
> > --- Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > > good luck trying to prove that a client of mine
> had
> > > the
> > > intent to "harass, intimidate, or obstruct" a
> driver
> > > and
> > > his 3000+ pound vehicle while on his open-air
> > > 400-700lb
> > > defenseless motorcycle
> > > 
> > 
> > You know as well as I do, that you don't have to
> PROVE
> > anything, just make the jurors believe. There is a
> > difference. Besides, roll up next to a petit, shy
> > woman in a Geo Metro, shake your fist at her and
> tap
> > on her window a couple of times. Do you think she
> > could make a few jurors believe she was
> intimidated?
> > Hell, for that matter, I bet you could convince a
> few
> > jurors that revving the engine intimidated a
> driver.
> 
> come on.  i thought you were a police officer.
> 
> if the charge requires a specific intent (which this
> new
> charge DOES), it requires the alleged perpetrator TO
> HAVE
> INTENDED the effect required under the statute.
> 
> it makes no difference what effect was had on the
> "victim"
> if i can show that my client lacked this specific
> intent.
> 
> 
> --
> tg
> 

I took your statement to mean that a rider CANNOT
harass a cage.

Many criminal charges require intent to be "proven".
Is it ever really proven? Or are the requisite number
of jurors simply pursuaded to believe?

Todd W.

=====
AIM: Inf DS

http://www.geocities.com/mtwithrow

-----------------------------------------------------------
Used to be that we "worldproofed" our children. Now society wants to childproof the world.

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From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar 12 15:10:33 2002
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Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:09:08 -0500
From: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Compression gauge adapter
To: "William J. Huson" <bhuson@XXXXXX>
Cc: "Custer, Carl" <Carl.Custer@XXXXXX>,
   "'DCCycles'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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"William J. Huson" wrote:
> 
> You're supposed to balance tires?

I have no problems balancing when I'm moving.  Maybe
Carl is talking about keeping your feet up at a stop sign
or something?  :)

Hork, unbalanced
-- 
Same old Hork, but new email - horkster@XXXXXX

Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)

Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 

'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer  
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi 
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar 12 15:25:28 2002
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Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 12:25:26 -0800 (PST)
From: Todd Withrow <mtwithrow@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: new aggressive driving offense in VA
To: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>, matthew patton <pattonme@XXXXXX>,
   dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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> it makes no difference what effect was had on the
> "victim"
> if i can show that my client lacked this specific
> intent.
> 
> 

Oh yeah, it DOES matter what the effect was. 

I punch you in the jaw once and you laugh at me =
simple assault (class 1 misdemeanor)

I punch you in the jaw once and your jaw shatters =
malicious wounding (class 3 felony)

I punch you in the jaw and you fall back breaking your
neck and die = murder (class 2 felony)

=====
AIM: Inf DS

http://www.geocities.com/mtwithrow

-----------------------------------------------------------
Used to be that we "worldproofed" our children. Now society wants to childproof the world.

__________________________________________________
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Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
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From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar 12 15:28:44 2002
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Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 12:28:41 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: new aggressive driving offense in VA
To: Todd Withrow <mtwithrow@XXXXXX>, matthew patton <pattonme@XXXXXX>,
   dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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--- Todd Withrow <mtwithrow@XXXXXX> wrote:
> 
> > it makes no difference what effect was had on the
> > "victim"
> > if i can show that my client lacked this specific
> > intent.
> > 
> > 
> 
> Oh yeah, it DOES matter what the effect was. 
> 
> I punch you in the jaw once and you laugh at me =
> simple assault (class 1 misdemeanor)
> 
> I punch you in the jaw once and your jaw shatters =
> malicious wounding (class 3 felony)
> 
> I punch you in the jaw and you fall back breaking your
> neck and die = murder (class 2 felony)

no offense, todd (tip of the day: don't offend teh police),
but what does this have to do with specific intent in
general and teh new virginia law in particular?



--
tg

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From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar 12 16:05:53 2002
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From: "Custer, Carl" <Carl.Custer@XXXXXX>
To: "'Dale Horstman'" <horkster@XXXXXX>,
   "William J. Huson"
	 <bhuson@XXXXXX>
Cc: "'DCCycles'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Compression gauge adapter
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	Hork replying to Bill's 
> > You're supposed to balance tires?
	Observed, "I have no problems balancing when I'm moving.  Maybe
> Carl is talking about keeping your feet up at a stop sign
> or something?  :)
	[Custer, Carl]  
	Yup, if you drive on unbalanced wheels, don't use premium gasoline,
and use yer front brake, it'll make you go over the handle bars.  
	That's not a problem unless yer werin a hel-mut. 
	If yer werin a hel-mut, it'll brek yer nek 
	no hemmut is O.K. cuz you'll roll to safety. 
	a beanie is O.K too -- unless it has a DOT stikker -- then yewll
scratch yer elbows -- unless yer werin' a kewl bandanana.

	Dyno oil is kewl too.  But you can make yer own sinthetic oil by
frying a turkey and filtering the oil thru a roll of tolit paper. 
	I just red this in the innernet so it must be true. 

	Wow, now I feel lak riting a regultshun.
	Picking the Ceptor to ride on a rainy day is beginning to seem
reasonable.


From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar 12 16:16:35 2002
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Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 16:16:03 -0500
From: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Compression gauge adapter
To: "Custer, Carl" <Carl.Custer@XXXXXX>
Cc: "William J. Huson" <bhuson@XXXXXX>,
   "'DCCycles'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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"Custer, Carl" wrote:
> 
>         Yup, if you drive on unbalanced wheels, don't use premium gasoline,
> and use yer front brake, it'll make you go over the handle bars.

Whew, I'm glad the Connie has clipons, then.  I'm safe.  :)

Hork

-- 
Same old Hork, but new email - horkster@XXXXXX

Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)

Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 

'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer  
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi 
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar 12 17:23:48 2002
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From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
Cc: <PenguinBiker@XXXXXX>, "dc-cycles list" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Braking (motorcycles) --> SPORTBIKES -- MSF bashing
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:27:51 -0500
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References: <c.2455c7b8.29bb83f4@aol.com> <9ndo8usvh5bdr77g1ta0ll1lj0f55li5al@4ax.com> <00b601c1c910$623e6300$bb82fea9@palladio1> <u4pp8uo71fmnq07nmua5u8lu5u2ck26eb7@4ax.com> <007101c1c923$315e8180$bb82fea9@palladio1>
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On Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:35:09 -0500, you wrote:

|>Well for starters you questioned the riding skills of hundreds of people
|>you've never met and implied we're all idiots, don't know anything about
|>sport riding, etc., for following the curriculum that's been vetted through

implied.. implied.. implied.. First, nothing is wrong with questioning
riding skills. Nothing is wrong with questioning period. hell it made
socrates famous.  We should also, especially, question your
interpretations of my posts.

Second as far as implied.. I welcome you to show me, quote me, where I
implied anyone is an idiot.  I feel no need to say in a round about
way someone is an idiot.  If I felt someone was an idiot, I'd say it.
What are they going to do, punch me through the computer? Punch me in
person?  form a lynch mob and hang me?  I dont' think so.   Name
calling isn't too much in my character, nor is implying things.
Implications are so subjective. I try to mean what I say, and say what
I mean, and not say mean things <G>

|>many years of experience.  Is what MSF teaches perfect and above reproach,
|>of course not, but it's a damn sight better than anything else for rank
|>newbies or some of the "conventional wisdom" you hear.

I don't think anyone has said anything contrary to that. That is still
not to say MSF is God or unquestionable. Hell further questioning
helps one learn. 

Any time someone tells  you end result data, but not the underlying
work to get to that data, question it.  If you don't want to, then
listen to  me because i'm telling you my case studies tell you I'm
correct 92% of the time .  <G>


Danny

From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar 12 17:24:31 2002
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From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: "S. Moyer" <smoyer72@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: braking thread
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:28:36 -0500
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|>Guess the Mofos are best at avoiding the whole argument in the first place - they just
|>don't use the brakes at all.

Who needs brakes? they slow you down!

From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar 12 17:26:59 2002
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From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: Tom Fitzpatrick <celticracing@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: I'm back - got a question
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:31:04 -0500
Message-ID: <vc0t8uoplkrfcjsotjvjst3j3j1ij8ei0r@4ax.com>
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On Mon, 11 Mar 2002 21:12:36 -0500, you wrote:

|>Been gone for a couple of weeks, and I was wondering.   What are the
|>merits of using the rear brake when braking?  Has this ever been
|>discussed before?
|>
|>Thanks!
ROTFL

From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar 12 17:45:50 2002
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From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: Fish Flowers <fish@XXXXXX>
Cc: DC-Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Automated Speeding Ticket
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:49:54 -0500
Message-ID: <941t8u093epgqfh092r7qn9ob06nfjq2ps@4ax.com>
References: <4pnp8ucafcn656pbhoaaisbd9qeqlkhsvv@4ax.com> <Pine.GSO.4.21.0203111227320.579-100000@harper.uchicago.edu>
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|>responsible for it. It wasn't stolen, which means either that I was
|>piloting the damn thing at the time, or that I'd entrusted it to someone
|>else. Either way, it's my problem. If it were someone else driving, I
|>might be interested in pursuing them for money to pay the fine, but that's
|>my affair.

The only problem with that is it's second hand justice.  If you loan
someone something with 100% legal intentions/knowledge, you shouldn't
be penalized as the guilty driver. If they robbed a bank, would you
think you should be punished, and then have that person owe you?

Plus you shoudn't have to go through all the hassle of persuing
someone for money.  If you were nice enough to loan someone your car,
you shoudln't have to be forced into loaning them ticket money.  

If they want to develop super technology, let them do a better job and
photograph the driver too.

Either the driver is soley responsible or he isn't..unless he told you
what he was planning on breaking laws.

From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar 12 17:46:15 2002
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From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>
Cc: Fish Flowers <fish@XXXXXX>, DC-Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Automated Speeding Ticket
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:50:20 -0500
Message-ID: <sg1t8ugna717m5o095v8lhj987rr1demr5@4ax.com>
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On Mon, 11 Mar 2002 13:43:02 -0500, you wrote:

|>Fish Flowers wrote:
|>> 
|>> Fish.
|>> founder, society for vigilante destruction of red light cameras
|>> 
|>> ... and yes, that's a joke
|>
|>No, it's not.  Where do I join?  :)

Hmmm is this a heineken commercial? :)

From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar 12 17:49:18 2002
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From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: "Fisk, Euan" <efisk@XXXXXX>
Cc: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>,
   "'fish@XXXXXX'" <fish@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Automated Speeding Ticket
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:53:22 -0500
Message-ID: <rl1t8uocm5ohc04ggp72mbjifnf8uqdgvv@4ax.com>
References: <C1C977326222D311B9CD00805FC7A8C29CCAE6@EXCHANGE>
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"hmm if we tweaked the camera to get 1... 2 mph's lower we could make
X more millions of dollars in revenue"...

mmm nah.. they would never do that ! :)

On Tue, 12 Mar 2002 09:53:33 -0500, you wrote:

|>DC's speeding cameras begin snapping your picture at 11mph over the
|>limit, so it looks like you just lucked out and hit the magic number.
|>Here's a handy list of locations of the photo-radar cameras:
|>
|>http://mpdc.dc.gov/info/traffic/speedlocation_map.shtm
|>
|>and here's the map/list for red light cameras:
|>
|>http://mpdc.dc.gov/info/traffic/redlightloc.shtm
|>
|>and remember, if you wheelie past them they can't see your plate.
|>-Euan
|>
|>[...]
|>>One wonders if these automatic ticketing mechanisms send tickets to people
|>>who were going 8 mph above the limit? 4 mph? 2 mph? And if so, does the
|>>fine vary?
|>>
|>>Fish.
|>
|>
|>


From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar 12 17:57:15 2002
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From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: "Fisk, Euan" <efisk@XXXXXX>
Cc: "'Mark Kitchell'" <markkitchell@XXXXXX>,
   "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>,
   "'fish@XXXXXX'" <fish@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Automated Speeding Ticket
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 18:01:19 -0500
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|>Off duty officers in unmarked cruisers will rotate between 

Off duty?  So they are doing this out of the goodness of their hearts
for a slower roadway?   or "over time paid" officers?  Or
subcontracted?

I have an officer friend who has done that type of work. I'll ask him
that, and to remind me of the figures he quoted. He told me the other
day " I can snap X pictures in X hours".  (it was a lot. He might have
told me the amount of money it sums up to too.. but alas i forgot.
i'll ask again.)

He also claimed something like he has gotten or will recieve oral sex
at the same time.  THat would be funny as hell to catch a radar camera
cop on camera breaking the law. That would be a HELLarious stroke of
irony.

I wonder how much money such a tape would be worth to the press...
hmmm...   Remidns me of the news stories on inside edition where
they video tape judges speeding then confront them. Teehhee.

Danny

From dc-cycles-request Tue Mar 12 21:26:11 2002
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From: "mobacc" <mobacc@XXXXXX>
To: "DC-Cycles" <DC-Cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: More Gotcha places
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:22:28 -0500
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Adding to recently observed radars --

    o  Rock Creek Parkway southbound leaving the Kennedy Center overhang --
shadowed radar pointing north from under the Roosevelt Bridge overpass, with
plenty transgressor pullover space by the scenic Potomac in view of the
Lincoln Memorial.  My stealth cloak must have been working.

    o  Again, RCP.  Northbound, Beach Drive, north of Park Police station
just past Military Road overpass.  (Again, stealth?.  The story:  Daylight,
I'm following small car.  We take off from Joyce Road intersection at
leisurely pace, me 4-5 lengths behind.  Police in plain view.  Pass him at
about 40 (posted 25) as he points gun at our back.  I slow just slightly.
2-3 seconds later, he follows, passes (whew), lights up, pulls over small
car.  I should have stopped at the nice policeman and thanked him for
ignoring me . . ..)

    I know, I know.  Pretty tame.  But if these tips save someone a few
hundred dollars insurance --

Bill S. / DC
'99 VN750 --> Anchor on order to replace front-back brake headaches.
Join the AMA.  Help protect my riding fun.


From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar 13 08:47:07 2002
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Reply-To: "Michael Jordan" <mjordan812@XXXXXX>
From: "Michael Jordan" <mjordan812@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
References: <FF3F2273-35EF-11D6-BE99-003065B452D2@mac.com>
Subject: Re: Someone lend me $20,000?
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 08:46:53 -0500
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Here's a REAL Ducati to lust after

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1810404104&r=0
&t=0&showTutorial=0&ed=1016153667&indexURL=0&rd=1


----- Original Message -----
From: "Sean Jordan" <eternity23@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 14:33
Subject: Someone lend me $20,000?


>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1810545521&r=
> 0&t=0
>
> All together now:
>
>
> Yummmmmmmm
>
>
>
> Sean Jordan
> Jordan Racing / DC-Cycles Racing
>


From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar 13 09:20:07 2002
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Reply-To: <rm.curtis@XXXXXX>
From: "Rob Curtis" <rm.curtis@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Someone lend me $20,000?
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:20:15 -0500
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Hey- for $100, I'll autograph anyone's Honda... (I'll make the comma
real small...)

Curtis, Robert(s)



-----Original Message-----
From: Sean Jordan [mailto:eternity23@XXXXXX] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 14:33
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Someone lend me $20,000?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1810545521
&r=
0&t=0

All together now:


Yummmmmmmm



Sean Jordan
Jordan Racing / DC-Cycles Racing



From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar 13 09:22:49 2002
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Subject: RE: More Gotcha places
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www.speedtrap.com is a useful website with similar info.


 -----Original Message-----
From: 	mobacc [mailto:mobacc@XXXXXX] 
Sent:	Tuesday, March 12, 2002 9:22 PM
To:	DC-Cycles
Subject:	More Gotcha places

    o  Rock Creek Parkway southbound leaving the Kennedy Center overhang --
shadowed radar pointing north from under the Roosevelt Bridge overpass, with
plenty transgressor pullover space by the scenic Potomac in view of the
Lincoln Memorial.  My stealth cloak must have been working.

    o  Again, RCP.  Northbound, Beach Drive, north of Park Police station
just past Military Road overpass.  (Again, stealth?.  The story:  Daylight,
I'm following small car.  We take off from Joyce Road intersection at
leisurely pace, me 4-5 lengths behind.  Police in plain view.  Pass him at
about 40 (posted 25) as he points gun at our back.  I slow just slightly.
2-3 seconds later, he follows, passes (whew), lights up, pulls over small
car.  I should have stopped at the nice policeman and thanked him for
ignoring me . . ..)



From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar 13 09:27:57 2002
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Reply-To: <rm.curtis@XXXXXX>
From: "Rob Curtis" <rm.curtis@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Racers in Santa Barbara, CA?
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:28:04 -0500
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Does anyone know any racers or hardcore sportbikers near Santa Barbara
or Ventura, CA? I am heading out there in a few weeks for and need to
find subjects for a video production... 
Thanks-
Robby C


From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar 13 09:38:16 2002
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From: LAURA GRANATO <lgranato@XXXXXX>
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Subject: Re: Racers in Santa Barbara, CA?
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On Wed, 13 March 2002, "Rob Curtis" wrote:

> 
> Does anyone know any racers or hardcore sportbikers near Santa Barbara
> or Ventura, CA? I am heading out there in a few weeks for and need to
> find subjects for a video production... 
> Thanks-
> Robby C

For a small fee, I'll go out there with you and assist!!! :-)

Laura


________________________________________________
PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart. 
http://www.peoplepc.com 

From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar 13 09:51:02 2002
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From: "Rob Curtis" <rm.curtis@XXXXXX>
To: "'LAURA GRANATO'" <lgranato@XXXXXX>
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Subject: RE: Racers in Santa Barbara, CA?
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Sorry Laura, I can't afford to offer you any money, but if any of the
listers want to help out I will set up a fund. If you would like to
donate to the "Take Laura out <to California> and shoot <a video of>
her" please notify me off-list to make arrangements.
Best-
Robby C

-----Original Message-----
From: LAURA GRANATO [mailto:lgranato@XXXXXX] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 09:38
To: rm.curtis@XXXXXX
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Racers in Santa Barbara, CA?

On Wed, 13 March 2002, "Rob Curtis" wrote:

> 
> Does anyone know any racers or hardcore sportbikers near Santa Barbara
> or Ventura, CA? I am heading out there in a few weeks for and need to
> find subjects for a video production... 
> Thanks-
> Robby C

For a small fee, I'll go out there with you and assist!!! :-)

Laura


________________________________________________
PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart. 
http://www.peoplepc.com 


From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar 13 09:58:52 2002
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Subject: RE: Racers in Santa Barbara, CA?
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On Wed, 13 March 2002, "Rob Curtis" wrote:

> 
> Sorry Laura, I can't afford to offer you any money,

what? no money?  LMAO.  I was joking about the "small fee" part...

> but if any of the
> listers want to help out I will set up a fund. If you would like to
> donate to the "Take Laura out <to California> and shoot <a video of>
> her" please notify me off-list to make arrangements.
> Best-
> Robby C

OK, listers...who's sending me to California to make DC Cycles famous?  Come on...do it for the list?

Laura


________________________________________________
PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart. 
http://www.peoplepc.com 

From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar 13 10:05:14 2002
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Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:04:19 -0500
From: Robert Verde <c-Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>
Subject: Chatterbox buy?
To: robkeiser@XXXXXX, wayne@XXXXXX,
   "DC Cycles (E-mail)" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Reply-to: c-Robert.Verde@XXXXXX
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Put me down for two units, if there is enough interest in a group buy.

I would also appreciate some tips on what's the best setup to outfit two riders,
two bikes, sometimes one bike/two-up.

Thanks,

Robert


Robert Verde
Worldcom Advisory Engineer
V-Net:228-3544
DID:703-449-3544
E-mail: c-Robert.Verde@XXXXXX



From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar 13 10:07:42 2002
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Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:06:44 -0500
From: Robert Verde <c-Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>
Subject: Damp out there...
To: "DC Cycles (E-mail)" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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Glad the weather is warming up, but the morning commute sure reminded me that I
need to renew the Nikwax on my gloves!

Stay dry out there...

Robert Verde

'83 Honda VF750F (RC-15) "BUDOKA"


From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar 13 10:26:53 2002
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To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: Damp out there...
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:26:43 -0500
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Me too!.  My new MotoBoss jacket (the in-house version of Frank Thomas wear
from CycleGear stores) didn't leak a drop but my Motoport Voyager pants
leaked big time and my a** is STILL wet. :)  The Olympia gloves repelled
water about as well as a kitchen sponge.  
Cedric
Ride with dark slacks

Glad the weather is warming up, but the morning commute sure reminded me
that I
need to renew the Nikwax on my gloves!

Stay dry out there...

Robert Verde

'83 Honda VF750F (RC-15) "BUDOKA"

From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar 13 12:33:20 2002
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Subject: RE: RE: Racers in Santa Barbara, CA?
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Oooooh... a gun thread! %^)

Original Message:

Sorry Laura, I can't afford to offer you any money, but if any of the
listers want to help out I will set up a fund. If you would like to
donate to the "Take Laura out <to California> and shoot <a video of>
her" please notify me off-list to make arrangements.

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From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar 13 12:59:33 2002
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Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:59:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: I'm back - got a question
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
In-Reply-To: <20020311.211241.-644313.0.CelticRacing@juno.com>
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tom raises a good issue....

having not had the time to read the brake thread(s) in
their entirety over the past couple weeks, it would be nice
if someone put together a list of "highlights" or perhaps a
rough summary of the debate, including the cast of
characters and their respective positions.  i'd rather not
hit "delete" if there is any worthwhile reading.

btw, was anyone told that they had their head up their ass
or otherwise strongly insulted?  thanks for any feedback.



--- Tom Fitzpatrick <celticracing@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Been gone for a couple of weeks, and I was wondering.  
> What are the
> merits of using the rear brake when braking?  Has this
> ever been
> discussed before?
> 
> Thanks!


__________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar 13 13:14:33 2002
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Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:14:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeremy Purdy <purdyjeremy@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Motorcycle Registration in VA?
To: pltrgyst@XXXXXX
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If I am not mistaken the pink slip that you get is
actually for an emissions test isn't it?  I honestly
don't remember ever getting anything but the sticker
from a garage for the safety inspection...

--
Jeremy Purdy
'00 Yamaha V-Star Classic

--
When I bought my GS500 from Free State last year, two
clerks at the
Eisenhower Avenue DMV both required the pink
inspection slip *before*
issuing the title and registration. No emissions
required, of course -- 
just
the safety inspection.

When I took the VA riding test a few months later,
also at the 
Eisenhower
DMV, they did not ask for either registration or
inspection slip (good 
thing,
since I've never remembered to put the inspection slip
on the bike or 
in my
wallet).

Maybe it's left to the individual inspector's whim.

-- Larry





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Tom,

I'm sure insults were hurled -- intended or otherwise.  And if it makes you feel any better:  YOU have your head up your ass! %^)  You just couldn't unsubscribe, could you??? %^)

Chuck

Original Message: <SNIP>

btw, was anyone told that they had their head up their ass
or otherwise strongly insulted?  thanks for any feedback.

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From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar 13 13:41:38 2002
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From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Re: I'm back - got a question
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--- "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
wrote:
> Tom,
> 
> I'm sure insults were hurled -- intended or otherwise. 

now THIS is helpful.  thanks for pointing me in the right
direction, again.

perhaps someone else will provide some meaningful feedback?




> And if it makes you feel any better:  YOU have your head
> up your ass! %^)  You just couldn't unsubscribe, could
> you??? %^)

thanks.  yes, much better now.


--
tg


> Original Message: <SNIP>
> 
> btw, was anyone told that they had their head up their
> ass
> or otherwise strongly insulted?  thanks for any feedback.


__________________________________________________
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Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
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From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar 13 15:57:32 2002
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From: "Randy Moran" <moran_randy@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: The New Harley Commercial
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:45:36 -0500
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<html><div style='background-color:'><P>I'm no fan of&nbsp;H-D but the new commercial is a classic. I saw it during the coverage of the Valencia WSB round.</P>
<P>This old guy is out on his porch with his grandchildren gathered around. He's telling them how he used to ride a harley, and really getting into it--you know--talking about the wind in his hair and the roar of the motor, etc. He's fondling a little scale model of some kind of Harley, maybe it's one of the kids' toys or something. The kids are looking at him in awe. </P>
<P>One of them asks in amazement, "Grampa, you used to have a Harley!?" 
<P>His reverie is abruptly shattered. "No, I never did," he admits, dejectedly, "I spent the money on aluminum siding," he spits out, bitterly, as he gestures toward the house. 
<P>The kids look at him with a mixture of pity and disdain. One of them says quietly to her siblings, "Come on, let's go see what grandma is doing." 
<P>Awesome. Almost made me wanna buy a Harley. Then I realized that the sentiment applies to all bikes (and a lot of other things), really. We get old quickly, and nothing is quite as hollow-feeling as regret. Pure advertising genius, IMO.</P><BR>
<DIV>Randy Moran</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>http://www.geocities.com/rajmoran</DIV>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: <a href='http://g.msn.com/1HM305401/12'>Click Here</a><br></html>

From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar 13 16:10:55 2002
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On Wed, 13 March 2002, "Randy Moran" wrote:

>really. We get old quickly, and nothing is quite as >hollow-feeling as regret. 

That was deep, man!  :)  Very true, though. 

I must say, though, your description of the commercial was much better than the actual commercial.

LAG


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From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar 13 16:21:51 2002
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From: Fish Flowers <fish@XXXXXX>
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Any opinions on the general cluefulness of Freestate Cycle in Capitol
Heights? I'm thinking of going by there and looking at Arai and Gericke
stuff, and was wondering if I could trust them not to be as clueless as I
am.

Fish.


From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar 13 16:59:34 2002
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Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:58:16 -0500
From: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: The New Harley Commercial
To: Randy Moran <moran_randy@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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Randy Moran wrote:

> Awesome. Almost made me wanna buy a Harley. 

It made me laugh.  The commercial suggests that people who have
never been on a bike, or don't know anything about bikes, want 
a Harley.  Those of us who know better have moved on to better 
stuff.  :)

Horkster

-- 
Same old Hork, but new email - horkster@XXXXXX

Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)

Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 

'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer  
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi 
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar 13 17:06:59 2002
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Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:53:37 -0500
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Pink slip is for safety... A printout is given from an emissions inspection.


>If I am not mistaken the pink slip that you get is
>actually for an emissions test isn't it?  I honestly
>don't remember ever getting anything but the sticker
>from a garage for the safety inspection...

-- 

From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar 13 17:10:48 2002
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On Wed, 13 March 2002, Dale Horstman wrote:


> The commercial suggests that people who have
> never been on a bike, or don't know anything about bikes, want 
> a Harley.  Those of us who know better have moved on to better 
> stuff.  :)

I don't agree with that (surprise! :-)  I think Randy was right in saying it's the perfect marketing scheme.  Everyone can relate to wanting to buy or own a bike and "look cool" which the kids were hoping he was, but turned out he wasn't...that's a great message to the general consumer...

It isn't exactly intended for those of us who already ride.  

:-)

LAG


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From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar 13 17:17:26 2002
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Subject: Re: The New Harley Commercial
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> It made me laugh.  The commercial suggests that people who have
> never been on a bike, or don't know anything about bikes, want
> a Harley.  Those of us who know better have moved on to better
> stuff.  :)

I think the commercial may be spot on...  Many times when people ask me what
kind of bike I have, the response is something like: "What, you can't afford
a Harley?"  Now I own sport(y) bikes so this is really quite an inane
comment.  I have a feeling they would have said the same thing if I told
them I rode a BMW or a Ducati.  If they actually knew anything, they might
have said "What, you can't afford an MV Agusta?" and this would make some
sense, since I can't...  But it does go to show that people over here
associate motorcycles with Harley, and everything else is a compromise.


From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar 13 17:20:50 2002
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Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 17:18:55 -0500
From: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: The New Harley Commercial
To: LAURA GRANATO <lgranato@XXXXXX>
Cc: moran_randy@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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LAURA GRANATO wrote:
> 
> It isn't exactly intended for those of us who already ride.

And that, in a nutshell, seems to be Harley's total design 
philosophy.  It's not intended for those who actually ride.  Lol!  :)

Hork
-- 
Same old Hork, but new email - horkster@XXXXXX

Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)

Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 

'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer  
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi 
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar 13 17:29:50 2002
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From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
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Subject: Re: The New Harley Commercial
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 17:28:11 -0500
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I really like the bit that the 'ole ball and chain made him buy aluminum
siding instead of a bike.  The ad leaves you with the feeling the poor guy's
'nads have been stored in a jar for about thirty years.

Which reminds me of a funny web site --

http://www.unclemelon.com/carlist.html  Uncle Melon's list of top ten cars
for emasculated men.

Paul in DC

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dale Horstman" <horkster@XXXXXX>



> LAURA GRANATO wrote:
> >
> > It isn't exactly intended for those of us who already ride.
>
> And that, in a nutshell, seems to be Harley's total design
> philosophy.  It's not intended for those who actually ride.  Lol!  :)
>
> Hork
> --



From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar 13 17:41:59 2002
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Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 17:43:03 -0500
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From: Larry Larson <pltrgyst@XXXXXX>
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At 01:14 PM 3/13/2002, Jeremy wrote:
>If I am not mistaken the pink slip that you get is
>actually for an emissions test isn't it?  I honestly
>don't remember ever getting anything but the sticker
>from a garage for the safety inspection...

No, I have the one from my Aprilia right in front of me. It is serial 
numbered, is entitled "Inspection Certification - Virginia State Police", 
has the checklist used for the safety inspection on the front, and on the 
rear says "This receipt should be kept in vehicle at all times while 
vehicle is being operated."

-- Larry






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Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 17:49:19 -0500
To: "Randy Moran" <moran_randy@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Larry Larson <pltrgyst@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: The New Harley Commercial
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At 03:45 PM 3/13/2002, Randy Moran wrote:

>I'm no fan of H-D but the new commercial is a classic. I saw it during the 
>coverage of the Valencia WSB round.

Yep, it's good. But not only did you see it during both WSB races, you saw 
it about eight times, two of which, during the second race, were separated 
by about five seconds.

Thank god for ReplayTV -- set it to record, wait until the show is half 
over, start watching while it's still recording, skip through all the 
commercials with the handy-dandy 30-second "jump" button, and the show 
still ends on time. Highly recommended.

-- Larry






From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar 13 18:12:01 2002
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Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:14:18 -0500
Subject: Re: The New Harley Commercial
From: Randy or Julie Moran <jmoran@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Message-ID: <B8B5477A.20D9%jmoran@va.adelphia.net>
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on 3.13.2002 5:49 PM, Larry Larson at pltrgyst@XXXXXX wrote:

> At 03:45 PM 3/13/2002, Randy Moran wrote:
> 
>> I'm no fan of H-D but the new commercial is a classic. I saw it during the
>> coverage of the Valencia WSB round.
> 
> Yep, it's good. But not only did you see it during both WSB races, you saw
> it about eight times, two of which, during the second race, were separated
> by about five seconds.
> 
<snip>


Yeah, Larry, I'm with you on the repetition deal. It's always been that way
with MC commercials though; they only buy time during shows that only
motorcyclists watch and they play the same commercial a million times.
There's a certain amount of logic to that approach, obviously. If I were
H-D, though, I'd be advertising during mainstream programming, especially
with a commercial like the one in question. For me, it quite effectively
seemed to address a universal fear (that of not having done something you
always wanted to, and it being too late). It's exactly the kind of thing
that I think could sell a lot of bikes for HD. I actually wish an
organization like the AMA had developed the ad. Replace "Harley" with
"motorcycle" and you've got yourself a nice shot at getting some people off
the porch and on bikes, maybe.

RPM


From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar 13 18:21:09 2002
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At 06:14 PM 3/13/2002, Randy or Julie Moran wrote:

>.... If I were
>H-D, though, I'd be advertising during mainstream programming, especially
>with a commercial like the one in question.

TI think they have been -- my SO had already seen the ad on other channels 
before last night.

-- Larry







From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar 13 18:22:30 2002
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Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:22:29 -0800 (PST)
From: "Eric M. Winslow" <ericwinslow@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Freestate Cycle?
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It depends on who you get at the counter. They have some young staff
there and not all of them are as helpful as you'd like. You could get
lucky, tho. In general, I've been satisfied with the level of service
there.

For helmets (my last 2) I've gone to The Motorcycle Shop (or some name
like that) in College Park on Rt 1 just inside the beltway.

Eric
'94 KLR650

--- Fish Flowers <fish@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Any opinions on the general cluefulness of Freestate Cycle in Capitol
> Heights? I'm thinking of going by there and looking at Arai and
> Gericke
> stuff, and was wondering if I could trust them not to be as clueless
> as I
> am.
> 
> Fish.
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
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From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar 13 19:17:06 2002
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At 07:00 PM 3/13/2002 -0500, 'The Horkster' wrote:
>And that, in a nutshell, seems to be Harley's total design
>philosophy.  It's not intended for those who actually ride.  Lol!  :)

any time poserboy, you and me! i may have been nursing a damaged
bike, but at least i RAN the MD2020!  god only knows HOW you
manage NEGATIVE points when you dont even ride the rally......

:-)~~~~

Bruce
'95 FLHTC - 2.99 times SaddleSore Award (and then some)....


From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar 13 20:10:41 2002
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No, you get a pink slip for safety inspection with all the stuff the
inspector didn't look at checked off.  That's for  a "nice bike"
inspection.



Jeremy Purdy wrote:

> If I am not mistaken the pink slip that you get is
> actually for an emissions test isn't it?  I honestly
> don't remember ever getting anything but the sticker
> from a garage for the safety inspection...
>
> --
> Jeremy Purdy
> '00 Yamaha V-Star Classic
>
> --
> When I bought my GS500 from Free State last year, two
> clerks at the
> Eisenhower Avenue DMV both required the pink
> inspection slip *before*
> issuing the title and registration. No emissions
> required, of course --
> just
> the safety inspection.
>
> When I took the VA riding test a few months later,
> also at the
> Eisenhower
> DMV, they did not ask for either registration or
> inspection slip (good
> thing,
> since I've never remembered to put the inspection slip
> on the bike or
> in my
> wallet).
>
> Maybe it's left to the individual inspector's whim.
>
> -- Larry
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
> http://mail.yahoo.com/


From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar 13 20:17:16 2002
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Hi there,

	I recently took possession of a 1985 Yamaha XJ700 Maxim, my 
first bike.  I've been working with varying success to get it 
running, though am hampered by the fact that I don't know anything 
about this particular bike's history.  Do the members of this list 
ever get together for carb clinics or anything?  If there's not much 
focus on do-it-yourself mechanics, does anyone have a garage they 
recommend?  In addition, does anyone know where to buy SeaFoam fuel 
system cleaner locally?  I've heard a number of people swear by it.

	I'm glad to be aboard!

Thanks,

--Dave Chamowitz
1985 Yamaha XJ700 Maxim

From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar 13 20:19:02 2002
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Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 20:15:53 -0500
From: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>
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Bruce Brownlee wrote:
> 
> any time poserboy, you and me! i may have been nursing a damaged
> bike, but at least i RAN the MD2020!  god only knows HOW you
> manage NEGATIVE points when you dont even ride the rally......

I rode!  I made it to every check point.  On time, even. I even 
did a bonus location or two.  And I guarantee Tracy and I did 
more "scoring" during that rally than anyone who finished ahead 
of us <sly wink, nudge, nudge>.

Breakfast with the Rallybubbas after y'all left in the rain
was a hoot, too.

> '95 FLHTC - 2.99 times SaddleSore Award (and then some)....

2.99 times?

Hork (finished last, but had the most fun)

-- 
Same old Hork, but new email:  horkster@XXXXXX

Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)

Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 

'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer  
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi 
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar 13 21:45:44 2002
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From: "Dave Yates" <sdave@XXXXXX>
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Hi there,

	I recently took possession of a 1985 Yamaha XJ700 Maxim, my
first bike.


	<DJY>  Cool, welcome...


 I've been working with varying success to get it
running, though am hampered by the fact that I don't know anything
about this particular bike's history.  Do the members of this list
ever get together for carb clinics or anything?


	<DJY> Periodically...  not with regularity.  What seems to be the
problem ?


  If there's not much
focus on do-it-yourself mechanics, does anyone have a garage they
recommend?


	<DJY> I've had good luck at Fast Lane in Chantilly & Clinton Cycles in
Ft. Wash.  MD...


HTH



Dave Yates
'90 ZX11 'Acceleratus Maximus'
LTT customized M96G EII 'Little Friend'
http://www.radix.net/~sdave/


From dc-cycles-request Wed Mar 13 21:55:01 2002
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Message-ID: <001201c1cb03$e022c500$5a511840@apnHOFOJOKO>
From: "Howard J. Koontz" <HOFOJOKO@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Cc: <eternity23@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Someone lend me $20,000?
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 21:56:43 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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Sean J wrote:
<snip>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1810545521&r=
0&t=0

All together now:


Yummmmmmmm



Sean Jordan
Jordan Racing / DC-Cycles Racing
</snip>

I need a cigarette...

And $20,001.00, apparently. :-P And I need to lose about 120 lbs. and shrink
1 foot. Then life'd be purr-fect...

2 miles. Can you believe that? That's criminal.

Howard J. Koontz
2001 Harley Davidson FLHT Electra Glide Standard
1972 Honda Z50AK3 Mini Trail Resto Project (Terminally For Sale)



From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 08:33:36 2002
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Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 05:33:34 -0800 (PST)
From: "Louis F. Caplan" <nighthawk700@XXXXXX>
Subject: HD ad, MD2020
To: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>,
   Bruce Brownlee <brownlee_b@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
In-Reply-To: <3C8FF9C9.44F178C3@comcast.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--- Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Bruce Brownlee wrote:
> > 
> > any time poserboy, you and me! i may have been nursing a damaged
> > bike, but at least i RAN the MD2020!  god only knows HOW you
> > manage NEGATIVE points when you dont even ride the rally......
> 
> I rode!  I made it to every check point.  

As a Rallybubba, I can confirm that Dale rode the rally.  Not competitively,
but  he seemed to be having the most fun!

> On time, even. I even  did a bonus location or two.  And I guarantee 
> Tracy and I did more "scoring" during that rally than anyone who finished
> ahead of us <sly wink, nudge, nudge>.

I think that falls under the "Too Much Information" section. 

> Breakfast with the Rallybubbas after y'all left in the rain
> was a hoot, too.

Heck, I didn't even know the secret to Racer X before that breakfast (although
I was highly suspicious).  That was a fun time!  

Hey Bruce... I see Dale's name signed up for the 2002 MD 20-20... but I don't
see yours.  Join Dale and the other DC-Cycles folks.  Information is at
http://www.masondixon20-20.org/.  We've been working hard at it and I think
this years will be very enjoyable!  (and no, we won't be having 400 bonus
locations!!)

Louis, MD 2020 RallyBubba


=====
"Admiral" Louis Caplan   1998 Kawasaki Concours
Fairfax, VA
Co-Planner, MD20-20 http://www.masondixon20-20.org/

Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/nighthawk700/cycle.htm

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 09:40:06 2002
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Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 06:40:04 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: Was MD2020, now any local Endurance Ride
To: "Louis F. Caplan" <nighthawk700@XXXXXX>,
   Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>,
   Bruce Brownlee <brownlee_b@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
In-Reply-To: <20020314133334.92263.qmail@web13001.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I would love to try one of those 1000 miles in 24 hour
rides.  This 20-20 seems like a bit much for my taste.

What ever happened to that local 1000 mile ride?  I
signed up two years ago but it went belly-up.

MArk

--- "Louis F. Caplan" <nighthawk700@XXXXXX> wrote:
> --- Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > Bruce Brownlee wrote:
> > > 
> > > any time poserboy, you and me! i may have been
> nursing a damaged
> > > bike, but at least i RAN the MD2020!  god only
> knows HOW you
> > > manage NEGATIVE points when you dont even ride
> the rally......
> > 
> > I rode!  I made it to every check point.  
> 
> As a Rallybubba, I can confirm that Dale rode the
> rally.  Not competitively,
> but  he seemed to be having the most fun!
> 
> > On time, even. I even  did a bonus location or
> two.  And I guarantee 
> > Tracy and I did more "scoring" during that rally
> than anyone who finished
> > ahead of us <sly wink, nudge, nudge>.
> 
> I think that falls under the "Too Much Information"
> section. 
> 
> > Breakfast with the Rallybubbas after y'all left in
> the rain
> > was a hoot, too.
> 
> Heck, I didn't even know the secret to Racer X
> before that breakfast (although
> I was highly suspicious).  That was a fun time!  
> 
> Hey Bruce... I see Dale's name signed up for the
> 2002 MD 20-20... but I don't
> see yours.  Join Dale and the other DC-Cycles folks.
>  Information is at
> http://www.masondixon20-20.org/.  We've been working
> hard at it and I think
> this years will be very enjoyable!  (and no, we
> won't be having 400 bonus
> locations!!)
> 
> Louis, MD 2020 RallyBubba
> 
> 
> =====
> "Admiral" Louis Caplan   1998 Kawasaki Concours
> Fairfax, VA
> Co-Planner, MD20-20 http://www.masondixon20-20.org/
> 
> Home Page:
> http://www.geocities.com/nighthawk700/cycle.htm
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
> http://sports.yahoo.com/


=====


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 09:52:23 2002
Return-Path: <dc-cycles-request>
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Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 06:52:20 -0800 (PST)
From: Joe Sanjour <jp_shoe@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Freestate Cycle?
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
In-Reply-To: <20020313232229.9550.qmail@web13509.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I agree with Eric on both the shop in College
Park and Freestate.

The bike shop in College Park goes by several
names, but the one I remember is The Dirt Shop.
They're on US 1, just south of the Beltway.
Very friendly and very knowledgeable.

Joe
'99 SV650

--- "Eric M. Winslow" <ericwinslow@XXXXXX> wrote:
> It depends on who you get at the counter. They have
> some young staff
> there and not all of them are as helpful as you'd
> like. You could get
> lucky, tho. In general, I've been satisfied with the
> level of service
> there.
> 
> For helmets (my last 2) I've gone to The Motorcycle
> Shop (or some name
> like that) in College Park on Rt 1 just inside the
> beltway.
> 
> Eric
> '94 KLR650
> 
> --- Fish Flowers <fish@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > Any opinions on the general cluefulness of
> Freestate Cycle in Capitol
> > Heights? I'm thinking of going by there and
> looking at Arai and
> > Gericke
> > stuff, and was wondering if I could trust them not
> to be as clueless
> > as I
> > am.
> > 
> > Fish.
> > 
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free
> email!
> http://mail.yahoo.com/


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 09:56:53 2002
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Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:55:50 -0500 (EST)
From: hcaldwell <hcaldwell@XXXXXX>
X-Sender: hcaldwell@XXXXXX
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Was MD2020, now any local Endurance Ride
In-Reply-To: <20020314144004.4218.qmail@web13807.mail.yahoo.com>
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	You can do a Saddle Sore 1000 during the MD20-20.
If I do the rally this year I plan on doing a Saddle Sore on
my DR650.

Hugh

On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, Mark Kitchell wrote:

> I would love to try one of those 1000 miles in 24 hour
> rides.  This 20-20 seems like a bit much for my taste.
> 
> What ever happened to that local 1000 mile ride?  I
> signed up two years ago but it went belly-up.
> 
> MArk
> 
> --- "Louis F. Caplan" <nighthawk700@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > --- Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > > Bruce Brownlee wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > any time poserboy, you and me! i may have been
> > nursing a damaged
> > > > bike, but at least i RAN the MD2020!  god only
> > knows HOW you
> > > > manage NEGATIVE points when you dont even ride
> > the rally......
> > > 
> > > I rode!  I made it to every check point.  
> > 
> > As a Rallybubba, I can confirm that Dale rode the
> > rally.  Not competitively,
> > but  he seemed to be having the most fun!
> > 
> > > On time, even. I even  did a bonus location or
> > two.  And I guarantee 
> > > Tracy and I did more "scoring" during that rally
> > than anyone who finished
> > > ahead of us <sly wink, nudge, nudge>.
> > 
> > I think that falls under the "Too Much Information"
> > section. 
> > 
> > > Breakfast with the Rallybubbas after y'all left in
> > the rain
> > > was a hoot, too.
> > 
> > Heck, I didn't even know the secret to Racer X
> > before that breakfast (although
> > I was highly suspicious).  That was a fun time!  
> > 
> > Hey Bruce... I see Dale's name signed up for the
> > 2002 MD 20-20... but I don't
> > see yours.  Join Dale and the other DC-Cycles folks.
> >  Information is at
> > http://www.masondixon20-20.org/.  We've been working
> > hard at it and I think
> > this years will be very enjoyable!  (and no, we
> > won't be having 400 bonus
> > locations!!)
> > 
> > Louis, MD 2020 RallyBubba
> > 
> > 
> > =====
> > "Admiral" Louis Caplan   1998 Kawasaki Concours
> > Fairfax, VA
> > Co-Planner, MD20-20 http://www.masondixon20-20.org/
> > 
> > Home Page:
> > http://www.geocities.com/nighthawk700/cycle.htm
> > 
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
> > http://sports.yahoo.com/
> 
> 
> =====
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
> http://sports.yahoo.com/
> 


From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 10:09:23 2002
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Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 07:09:22 -0800 (PST)
From: stephen cutchins <stephen_cutchins@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: new owner
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
In-Reply-To: <a05010402b8b5a48865e7@[172.142.101.40]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Hi David, and welcome!

If the bike has been sitting for a while (say 6 months
or more) it will definitely need a carb rebuild.  The
first thing you do is go to a Yamaha dealer and order
the factory service manual, they are usually no more
than about $50.  "Fiddling" with the carbs is the
easiest way to mess things up worse then they were in
the first place, and a really easy way to fall out of
love with that first bike really quickly after you
spend weeks chasing the same problem.  The factory
manual should have plenty of info on hunting down
problems, and it will have detailed instructions with
pictures on tearing the carbs apart, cleaning them,
and most importantly getting them back together.

Steve

--- David Chamowitz <dchamowitz@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Hi there,
> 
> 	I recently took possession of a 1985 Yamaha XJ700
> Maxim, my 
> first bike.  I've been working with varying success
> to get it 
> running, though am hampered by the fact that I don't
> know anything 
> about this particular bike's history.  Do the
> members of this list 
> ever get together for carb clinics or anything?  If
> there's not much 
> focus on do-it-yourself mechanics, does anyone have
> a garage they 
> recommend?  In addition, does anyone know where to
> buy SeaFoam fuel 
> system cleaner locally?  I've heard a number of
> people swear by it.
> 
> 	I'm glad to be aboard!
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> --Dave Chamowitz
> 1985 Yamaha XJ700 Maxim


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 10:15:28 2002
Return-Path: <dc-cycles-request>
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Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:16:37 -0500
To: Fish Flowers <fish@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Larry Larson <pltrgyst@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Freestate Cycle?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0203140805460.1721-100000@harper.uchicago.ed
 u>
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At 09:06 AM 3/14/2002, Fish Flowers wrote:
>On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Larry Larson wrote:
>
> > Nice but ignorant sales staff, nice but not-quite-as-ignorant parts
> > people, and a big theft problem -- so the helmets are all high up on
> > shelves behind the sales counter where you can't get at them.
>
>Too bad... I'm really just looking for competent sales people just
>now. Ah, well. Thanks for responding!


You're welcome. I'm afraid the only competent sales people I've met in the 
area are at Clinton Cycle and Bob's BMW.

-- Larry







From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 10:16:55 2002
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	Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:05:38 GMT
X-Originating-IP: [64.241.204.165]
From: "Razz Man" <razzsounds@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Selling My 99 ZX9R
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:05:38 -0500
Mime-Version: 1.0
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X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Mar 2002 15:05:38.0624 (UTC) FILETIME=[B37A8400:01C1CB69]

I've made the painful decision to sell my beloved steed. After deciding that 
it'll be at least another year or two before I can "pleasure ride" due to 
the construction of my new recording studio and the clients already booked 
after completion, the bike's on the market.

*Green/Purple all factory services performed on schedule
*Anal about maintaining and cleaning/dusting
*Never dropped
*Tank bra
*Custom Kawasaki Seat cover (looks like a continuation of the paint    
scheme)
*BT56SS Front/rear
*Scorpio alarm with pager
*HJC Green/purple leather jacket included
*HJC Green/purple Helmet included
$7500.00

I'm gonna take it to Motorcycle Factory next week to sell on consignment so 
this would be a good week to respond if interested.

Razz

99 ZX9R (for now)
89 LTD454
86 LTD454


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 10:20:35 2002
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From: RichH@XXXXXX
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: new owners manual
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:20:18 -0500
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I'd recommend Ebay for the manual there's almost always one for my bike
(Yamaha Seca II) on there, usually closer to $10.

 -----Original Message-----
From: 	stephen cutchins [mailto:stephen_cutchins@XXXXXX] 
Sent:	Thursday, March 14, 2002 10:09 AM
To:	DC Cycles
Subject:	Re: new owner

Hi David, and welcome!

If the bike has been sitting for a while (say 6 months
or more) it will definitely need a carb rebuild.  The
first thing you do is go to a Yamaha dealer and order
the factory service manual, they are usually no more
than about $50.  "Fiddling" with the carbs is the
easiest way to mess things up worse then they were in
the first place, and a really easy way to fall out of
love with that first bike really quickly after you
spend weeks chasing the same problem.  The factory
manual should have plenty of info on hunting down
problems, and it will have detailed instructions with
pictures on tearing the carbs apart, cleaning them,
and most importantly getting them back together.

Steve

--- David Chamowitz <dchamowitz@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Hi there,
> 
> 	I recently took possession of a 1985 Yamaha XJ700
> Maxim, my 
> first bike.  I've been working with varying success
> to get it 
> running, though am hampered by the fact that I don't
> know anything 
> about this particular bike's history.  Do the
> members of this list 
> ever get together for carb clinics or anything?  If
> there's not much 
> focus on do-it-yourself mechanics, does anyone have
> a garage they 
> recommend?  In addition, does anyone know where to
> buy SeaFoam fuel 
> system cleaner locally?  I've heard a number of
> people swear by it.
> 
> 	I'm glad to be aboard!
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> --Dave Chamowitz
> 1985 Yamaha XJ700 Maxim


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 10:21:18 2002
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Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 07:21:15 -0800 (PST)
From: "Louis F. Caplan" <nighthawk700@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Was MD2020, now any local Endurance Ride
To: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
In-Reply-To: <20020314144004.4218.qmail@web13807.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

--- Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX> wrote:
> I would love to try one of those 1000 miles in 24 hour
> rides.  This 20-20 seems like a bit much for my taste.
> 
> What ever happened to that local 1000 mile ride?  I
> signed up two years ago but it went belly-up.
> 
> MArk

If you are refering to the Capitol 1000, Larry Fears stopped running it a few
years ago, and unfortunately passed away last year.  (Checks for the last
Capitol 1000 were never cashed).  Rick Miller came up with the Mason Dixon
20-20, which was just a group Saddlesore.  Todd Peer and I helped out the first
year as route planners.  (I came up with a 1000 mile route, Todd made it fun!)

There will be several options offered in the MD-2020, including doing a Saddle
Sore 1000.  I'll e-mail the web-bubba about adding some language in to the
webpage to that effect. 

Any other questions, feel free to let me know, on list or off.

Louis


=====
"Admiral" Louis Caplan   1998 Kawasaki Concours
Fairfax, VA
Co-Planner, MD20-20 http://www.masondixon20-20.org/

Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/nighthawk700/cycle.htm

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 10:33:10 2002
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From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Was MD2020, now any local Endurance Ride
To: "Louis F. Caplan" <nighthawk700@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
In-Reply-To: <20020314152115.20188.qmail@web13001.mail.yahoo.com>
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Thanks Louis.  I will keep this on-list, as others may
be interested.

The 20-20 website is a little light on details.  What
exactly is it (20 states in 20 hours)?  If you  just
want to do the SS1000, whats the process?  Do you
still hit 20 states?

My goal is to do a SS1000.  I do not have a laptop
with fancy mapping software, etc.  But I am pretty
sure I (with VFR) can do the mileage and that would be
fun.

Thanks

Mark
--- "Louis F. Caplan" <nighthawk700@XXXXXX> wrote:
> --- Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > I would love to try one of those 1000 miles in 24
> hour
> > rides.  This 20-20 seems like a bit much for my
> taste.
> > 
> > What ever happened to that local 1000 mile ride? 
> I
> > signed up two years ago but it went belly-up.
> > 
> > MArk
> 
> If you are refering to the Capitol 1000, Larry Fears
> stopped running it a few
> years ago, and unfortunately passed away last year. 
> (Checks for the last
> Capitol 1000 were never cashed).  Rick Miller came
> up with the Mason Dixon
> 20-20, which was just a group Saddlesore.  Todd Peer
> and I helped out the first
> year as route planners.  (I came up with a 1000 mile
> route, Todd made it fun!)
> 
> There will be several options offered in the
> MD-2020, including doing a Saddle
> Sore 1000.  I'll e-mail the web-bubba about adding
> some language in to the
> webpage to that effect. 
> 
> Any other questions, feel free to let me know, on
> list or off.
> 
> Louis
> 
> 
> =====
> "Admiral" Louis Caplan   1998 Kawasaki Concours
> Fairfax, VA
> Co-Planner, MD20-20 http://www.masondixon20-20.org/
> 
> Home Page:
> http://www.geocities.com/nighthawk700/cycle.htm
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
> http://sports.yahoo.com/


=====


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 10:38:09 2002
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Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:37:27 -0500
From: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Was MD2020, now any local Endurance Ride
To: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Cc: "Louis F. Caplan" <nighthawk700@XXXXXX>,
   Bruce Brownlee <brownlee_b@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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Mark Kitchell wrote:
> 
> I would love to try one of those 1000 miles in 24 hour
> rides.  This 20-20 seems like a bit much for my taste.

Mark,

The nice thing about the MD2020 is you can make it
whatever you want.  They offered options for folks
last year who just wanted to do their SaddleSore 1000s,
and they could check out 24 hours into the rally.
There was also an option for a BunBurnerGold (1500
miles in 24 hours) that one DC-cycles lurker,
Dillon Dickson, completed on his Connie!  Woohoo!

And this rally can be anything you want to make
of it.  It's 36 hours long, but I have it on good
authority that a sleepover bonus will be offered 
again this year, and will be worth too many points
to pass up (a couple hardcore riders actually skipped
the bonus last year and finished well).  And you can
finish early, if you so desire.

I had a fairly competitive route worked up for 
last year, but changed plans at the last minute
(the rainy weather might have had something to 
do with it) and just putted around from checkpoint
to checkpoint with the wife.  I had a lot of
fun anyway.  I'll have to come up with a new
excuse if I goof off again this year.  :)

Horkster
-- 
Same old Hork, but new email - horkster@XXXXXX

Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)

Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 

'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer  
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi 
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 10:46:50 2002
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From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
To: "Louis F. Caplan" <nighthawk700@XXXXXX>
Cc: "dc-cycles list" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
References: <20020314152115.20188.qmail@web13001.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Was MD2020, now any local Endurance Ride
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:46:46 -0500
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Louis, a friend and I are considering earning our SS1K "wings" this Spring
and this may be a good opportunity for us in a rally setting.  How does the
SS option work?  Just collect the bonuses that comprise a 1,000-mile circuit
and blow off the rest?  I assume they are "easy" bonuses, gas receipt on
major highways and the like so we
won't run the risk of being time-barred.  Is there a mandatory rest
involved?

Thanks,

Paul in DC
95 VFR750F - 86 VF500F

----- Original Message -----
From: "Louis F. Caplan" <nighthawk700@XXXXXX>
To: "Mark Kitchell" <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Cc: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 10:21 AM
Subject: Re: Was MD2020, now any local Endurance Ride


> --- Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > I would love to try one of those 1000 miles in 24 hour
> > rides.  This 20-20 seems like a bit much for my taste.
> >
> > What ever happened to that local 1000 mile ride?  I
> > signed up two years ago but it went belly-up.
> >
> > MArk
>
> If you are refering to the Capitol 1000, Larry Fears stopped running it a
few
> years ago, and unfortunately passed away last year.  (Checks for the last
> Capitol 1000 were never cashed).  Rick Miller came up with the Mason Dixon
> 20-20, which was just a group Saddlesore.  Todd Peer and I helped out the
first
> year as route planners.  (I came up with a 1000 mile route, Todd made it
fun!)
>
> There will be several options offered in the MD-2020, including doing a
Saddle
> Sore 1000.  I'll e-mail the web-bubba about adding some language in to the
> webpage to that effect.
>
> Any other questions, feel free to let me know, on list or off.
>
> Louis




From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 10:53:47 2002
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From: "Louis F. Caplan" <nighthawk700@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Was MD2020, now any local Endurance Ride
To: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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--- Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Thanks Louis.  I will keep this on-list, as others may
> be interested.
> 
> The 20-20 website is a little light on details.  What
> exactly is it (20 states in 20 hours)?  If you  just
> want to do the SS1000, whats the process?  Do you
> still hit 20 states?

Drawing on memory here, so I may not be 100% right, but the original thought
when we first started was 20 bonus locations above the Mason Dixon line, and 20
below.  Then one of the rallybubbas came up with the not-so-great idea of
multiplying the 20's to get 400 locations.  The screams of rally-goers are
still echoing.  Right now, as far as I know, it's just part of the name of the
annual rally, Mason Dixon 20-20.  DOA is this year's theme. 

There is no set number of states you have to hit.  The rally boarder is defined
on the web page as "Plan on a region bounded by Sault Ste Marie, ON to the
North; Lubec, ME to the East; Jacksonville, FL to the South; and, the
Mississippi River to the West."  But there will also be separate groupings of
bonus locations (pick your pleasure).  

> My goal is to do a SS1000.  I do not have a laptop
> with fancy mapping software, etc.  But I am pretty
> sure I (with VFR) can do the mileage and that would be
> fun.

By participating in the MD2020, you don't have to worry about the fancy mapping
software.  We'll provide the route for a SS1000 for those who only want to do
that.  You also don't have to worry about witnesses.  Plus if you find others
who just want to do the SS1000, you may want to ride in a group. 
 
> Thanks
> 
> Mark

Louis


=====
"Admiral" Louis Caplan   1998 Kawasaki Concours
Fairfax, VA
Co-Planner, MD20-20 http://www.masondixon20-20.org/

Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/nighthawk700/cycle.htm

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 10:56:05 2002
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Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:55:55 EST
Subject: Re: The New Harley Commercial
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In a message dated 3/13/2002 3:59:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
moran_randy@XXXXXX writes:

> We get old quickly, and nothing is quite as hollow-feeling as regret. Pure 
> advertising genius, IMO.

Few things are as true.
I do know an "old timer" who wound up getting a divorce, back when divorce 
was bad, because his mother in-law got pissed when he bought a new Harley 
instead of a washing machine.
"I had a bike when I got married, I was always going to have a bike, my wife 
knew that."
Best thing that ever happened to him.


John Walters (Long John)
PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Up near DC

Honda ST1100X Pan European
    (With all of the STs all of a sudden the Pan European 
      is now necessary {and I still like it.})
BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles
Honda 1976 CR250M  Motowhat racer

From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 10:57:13 2002
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From: LAURA GRANATO <lgranato@XXXXXX>
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Subject: motorcycle opinion question

Ok, just had to get everyone's opinion on this one.  Right now I have tenants living in my townhouse in Centreville, so I popped by last night to check it out.

I don't have a garage, but there is a storage room in my basement that used to be a wood working shop.  Well, I pop the doors to the room open and what do I find? 

A race bike.   Ok, first I think "cool."  I forgot this guy was a racer...then I come out of my daze and think "FIRE HAZARD!"

There is oil all over the floor, bottles of oil everywhere...

If you were me, would this piss you off and what would you do?  I've already decided what I'm gonna do, but thought this might be a fun topic.

LAG


________________________________________________
PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart. 
http://www.peoplepc.com 

From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 11:00:50 2002
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From: "Bruce Norton" <bnorton@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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Subject: Re: motorcycle opinion question
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And a wood shop is not a fire hazard?


----- Original Message -----
From: "LAURA GRANATO" <lgranato@XXXXXX>


> Ok, just had to get everyone's opinion on this one.  Right now I have
tenants living in my townhouse in Centreville, so I popped by last night to
check it out.
>
> I don't have a garage, but there is a storage room in my basement that
used to be a wood working shop.  Well, I pop the doors to the room open and
what do I find?
>
> A race bike.   Ok, first I think "cool."  I forgot this guy was a
racer...then I come out of my daze and think "FIRE HAZARD!"
>
> There is oil all over the floor, bottles of oil everywhere...
>
> If you were me, would this piss you off and what would you do?  I've
already decided what I'm gonna do, but thought this might be a fun topic.
>
> LAG



From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 11:15:01 2002
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On Thu, 14 March 2002, "Bruce Norton" wrote:

> 
> And a wood shop is not a fire hazard?
> 
> 
I'm not saying it's not...but it wasn't my house then.  The previous owner had a wood shop.  I use it as a storage room.

Laura


________________________________________________
PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart. 
http://www.peoplepc.com 

From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 11:16:23 2002
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Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:16:21 -0800 (PST)
From: Keith Lamond <keithlva@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: motorcycle opinion question
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The biggest hazard in my mind is the gas tank.  If the
bike is stored inside with the gas tank off and in an
outside shed, than the hazard is less.

Keith

--- LAURA GRANATO <lgranato@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Ok, just had to get everyone's opinion on this one. 
> Right now I have tenants living in my townhouse in
> Centreville, so I popped by last night to check it
> out.
> 
> I don't have a garage, but there is a storage room
> in my basement that used to be a wood working shop. 
> Well, I pop the doors to the room open and what do I
> find? 
> 
> A race bike.   Ok, first I think "cool."  I forgot
> this guy was a racer...then I come out of my daze
> and think "FIRE HAZARD!"
> 
> There is oil all over the floor, bottles of oil
> everywhere...
> 
> If you were me, would this piss you off and what
> would you do?  I've already decided what I'm gonna
> do, but thought this might be a fun topic.
> 
> LAG
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________
> PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart. 
> http://www.peoplepc.com 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 11:18:13 2002
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Subject: RE: motorcycle opinion question
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What kind of bike?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: LAURA GRANATO [mailto:lgranato@XXXXXX]
> Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 10:57 AM
> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> Subject: motorcycle opinion question
> 
> 
> Ok, just had to get everyone's opinion on this one.  Right now I 
> have tenants living in my townhouse in Centreville, so I popped 
> by last night to check it out.
> 
> I don't have a garage, but there is a storage room in my basement 
> that used to be a wood working shop.  Well, I pop the doors to 
> the room open and what do I find? 
> 
> A race bike.   Ok, first I think "cool."  I forgot this guy was a 
> racer...then I come out of my daze and think "FIRE HAZARD!"
> 
> There is oil all over the floor, bottles of oil everywhere...
> 
> If you were me, would this piss you off and what would you do?  
> I've already decided what I'm gonna do, but thought this might be 
> a fun topic.
> 
> LAG
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________
> PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart. 
> http://www.peoplepc.com 
> 

From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 11:19:39 2002
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From: "Jon Strang" <jmstrang@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: another m/c ad
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:18:04 -0500
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http://www.chivinmoto.com/images/ot3140.mpeg

I don't think this has been posted here before...

--jon

From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 11:21:31 2002
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On Thu, 14 March 2002, "Jon Strang" wrote:

> 
> What kind of bike?
> 

I didn't really look at it...I was dumbfounded...Jordan?  What kind of bike was it?  I just remember it was blue...and big...LOL

L


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From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 11:25:46 2002
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Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:25:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: motorcycle opinion question
To: LAURA GRANATO <lgranato@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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--- LAURA GRANATO <lgranato@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Ok, just had to get everyone's opinion on this one. 
> Right now I have tenants living in my townhouse in
> Centreville, so I popped by last night to check it out.
> 
> I don't have a garage, but there is a storage room in my
> basement that used to be a wood working shop.  Well, I
> pop the doors to the room open and what do I find? 
> 
> A race bike.   Ok, first I think "cool."  I forgot this
> guy was a racer...then I come out of my daze and think
> "FIRE HAZARD!"
> 
> There is oil all over the floor, bottles of oil
> everywhere...
> 
> If you were me, would this piss you off and what would
> you do?  I've already decided what I'm gonna do, but
> thought this might be a fun topic.

only YOU are allowed to destroy your home.  i'd gut the
bastard....

then i'd call my insurance agent to verify fire coverage



--
tg

__________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 11:27:01 2002
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At 10:55 AM 3/14/2002, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote:
>"I had a bike when I got married, I was always going to have a bike, my wife
>knew that."

Gawd, I must have heard it a hundred times:

"I'd love to ride, but my wife won't let me."

I always look at such people like they're space aliens. :-)

Has anyone ever gotten a "my husband won't let me" line from a woman? Just 
curious.

  /// Rob


From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 11:27:41 2002
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On Thu, 14 March 2002, Keith Lamond wrote:

> 
> The biggest hazard in my mind is the gas tank.  If the
> bike is stored inside with the gas tank off and in an
> outside shed, than the hazard is less.
> 
> Keith
> 
Gas tank still attached...no key to check if there was gas in it...but with the brain power these people have, I wouldn't doubt it.  The basement is set up as an extra bedroom, and they tried to tell me nobody was living down there...um, yea, right...



________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 11:28:06 2002
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From: <sdave@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Cc: 
Subject: re:  motorcycle opinion question  


Ok, just had to get everyone's opinion on this one.  Right now I have
tenants living in my townhouse in Centreville, so I popped by last
night to check it out.


   <DJY>  Not violating their right to 'quiet enjoyment of the 
property', were you ?   



I don't have a garage, but there is a storage room in my basement that
used to be a wood working shop.  Well, I pop the doors to the room
open and what do I find?


   <DJY>  Do tell... 


A race bike.   Ok, first I think "cool."  I forgot this guy was a
racer...then I come out of my daze and think "FIRE HAZARD!"

   <DJY>  If you can smell an odor of fuel ask yourself this -
   Does the house have (natural) Gas appliances?
   Does the house have an oil fired furnace ?

Both are potential ignition sources ... If either of the above is 
true, you should've double tapped them in the chest, gone upstairs, 
gotten a kitchen knife & wrapped their cold dead fingers around it, 
torn your blouse / shirt, ruffled your hair a little &  called the 
cops...  

If it's a heat pump, there's not *as much* a risk of ignition...  

There is oil all over the floor, bottles of oil everywhere...


   <DJY> so....  maybe it's NOT so cool to have racer tenants...  


If you were me, would this piss you off and what would you do?  I've
already decided what I'm gonna do, but thought this might be a fun
topic.

  <DJY>  Yes and I'd ask them nicely to remove the bike from inside 
the house.  Like it or not, when the tenant(s) leave, the permeating 
odor of gasoline is *NOT* a selling point for potential buyers...  or 
future renters.  

Dave  



LAG






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From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 11:34:17 2002
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From: "Jon Strang" <jmstrang@XXXXXX>
To: "LAURA GRANATO" <lgranato@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: motorcycle opinion question
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:32:42 -0500
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..and of course, synthetic or dino?

> -----Original Message-----
> 
> There is oil all over the floor, bottles of oil everywhere...
> 


From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 11:38:01 2002
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In a message dated 3/14/2002 10:59:09 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
lgranato@XXXXXX writes:

> I pop the doors to the room open and what do I find? 
>  
>  A race bike.   Ok, first I think "cool."  I forgot this guy was a racer...
> then I come out of my daze and think "FIRE HAZARD!"

Is that any worse then storing a bike in an attached garage? A garage under a 
townhouse?
Just a question.


John.
PenguinBiker@XXXXXX

From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 11:39:12 2002
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In a message dated 3/14/02 11:36:05 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
jmstrang@XXXXXX writes:


> ..and of course, synthetic or dino?
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > 
> > There is oil all over the floor, bottles of oil everywhere...

That would be a major complaint for me.  It's a fire hazard first....second 
it permanently defaces your property....and third....it's probably against 
the local fire code....at a guess.  String the no-good motorcycle wanna-be up 
by their thumbs!!!  :)

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 3/14/02 11:36:05 AM Eastern Standard Time, jmstrang@XXXXXX writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">..and of course, synthetic or dino?<BR>
<BR>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>
&gt; <BR>
&gt; There is oil all over the floor, bottles of oil everywhere...</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
That would be a major complaint for me.&nbsp; It's a fire hazard first....second it permanently defaces your property....and third....it's probably against the local fire code....at a guess.&nbsp; String the no-good motorcycle wanna-be up by their thumbs!!!&nbsp; :)</FONT></HTML>

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From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 11:44:11 2002
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OH MY GOD...has hell frozen over...Dave actually agrees with me?????

:)

LAG


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From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 11:45:07 2002
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From: Fish Flowers <fish@XXXXXX>
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Subject: Re: The New Harley Commercial
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On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, Rob Winters wrote:

> Has anyone ever gotten a "my husband won't let me" line from a woman?

Yes, actually. Most recently from a friend whose husband won't let her
ride or (and this is the one which surprises me) get her nipple pierced.

Fish.
it takes all kinds


From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 11:45:59 2002
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Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:45:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Keith Lamond <keithlva@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: motorcycle opinion question
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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I'd only allow synthetic to touch my floors.  They
should be gutted if the floor is being defaced with
dino juice :)

Keith
--- Jon Strang <jmstrang@XXXXXX> wrote:
> ..and of course, synthetic or dino?
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > 
> > There is oil all over the floor, bottles of oil
> everywhere...
> > 
> 


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From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 11:47:51 2002
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Subject: RE: motorcycle opinion question
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:46:16 -0500
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I don't think there's any difference, but the issue is the cleanliness/fire
hazard of oil and oily rags all over the place.
Also, gasoline (and to a lesser extent, kerosene or other solvents) being
used to clean parts/left in coffee cans or whatever.  All significant fire
hazards regardless of location.

I'd be a hardass on the issue if they've demonstrated lack of judgement.  On
the other hand, if they're doing a reasonable job of protecting your
investment, I think I'd understand...being that I know how hard it is to
find a place to work on your bike.  FWIW.



> From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX [mailto:PenguinBiker@XXXXXX]
>
> In a message dated 3/14/2002 10:59:09 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> lgranato@XXXXXX writes:
>
> > I pop the doors to the room open and what do I find?
> >
> >  A race bike.   Ok, first I think "cool."  I forgot this guy
> was a racer...
> > then I come out of my daze and think "FIRE HAZARD!"
>
> Is that any worse then storing a bike in an attached garage? A
> garage under a
> townhouse?
> Just a question.
>
>
> John.
> PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
>


From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 11:56:39 2002
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From: <sdave@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Cc: 
Subject: re: motorcycle opinion question  

Laura tried to slip into the 'Daddy pants' (re:  Austin Powers)...

OH MY GOD...has hell frozen over...Dave actually agrees with me?????

:)


   <DJY>  Don't  * S T A R T *  with me ;-)  


So, you already double tapped the offender ?  what did you do with 
the body ?


Dave 




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From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
To: <lgranato@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
References: <92.22b17a0c.29c22c17@aol.com>
Subject: Re: motorcycle opinion question
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:55:39 -0500
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A boilerplate lease agreement usually covers such contingencies, storage of
hazardous materials.  Notify the tenant(s) that they are in violation of the
lease terms and they have such and such time period to address the problem
or you will begin eviction proceedings.

Paul in DC
----- Original Message -----
From: <SKeener2@XXXXXX>
To: <jmstrang@XXXXXX>; <lgranato@XXXXXX>; <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 11:38 AM
Subject: Re: motorcycle opinion question


> In a message dated 3/14/02 11:36:05 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> jmstrang@XXXXXX writes:
>
>
> > ..and of course, synthetic or dino?
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > >
> > > There is oil all over the floor, bottles of oil everywhere...
>
> That would be a major complaint for me.  It's a fire hazard
first....second
> it permanently defaces your property....and third....it's probably against
> the local fire code....at a guess.  String the no-good motorcycle wanna-be
up
> by their thumbs!!!  :)
>


From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 11:59:00 2002
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To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
From: LAURA GRANATO <lgranato@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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Subject: Re: motorcycle opinion question
X-Sent-From: lgranato@XXXXXX

On Thu, 14 March 2002, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote:

> Is that any worse then storing a bike in an attached garage? A garage under a 
> townhouse?
> Just a question.
> 

Just called the fire department.  He said "zero flammable liquids of that nature should be in the house...especially a townhouse which causes risk to the connecting houses."  Insurance would not pay for any damage if something were to happen.


LAG



________________________________________________
PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart. 
http://www.peoplepc.com 

From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 12:02:06 2002
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Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:01:46 -0500
From: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: The New Harley Commercial
To: Rob Winters <rob@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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Rob Winters wrote:

> Has anyone ever gotten a "my husband won't let me" line from a woman? Just
> curious.

My wife was able to use that line for a few years, until she 
convinced me that we should get a motorcycle.  Then I went off
the deep end...  :)  I wonder if she has any regrets about that?  

Horkster
-- 
Same old Hork, but new email - horkster@XXXXXX

Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)

Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 

'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer  
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi 
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 12:03:00 2002
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Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:59:24 -0500
From: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: another m/c ad
To: jmstrang@XXXXXX
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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Jon Strang wrote:
> 
> http://www.chivinmoto.com/images/ot3140.mpeg
> 
> I don't think this has been posted here before...

It's amazing the kinds of ads the yurupeens can
get away with...  :)

Hork

-- 
Same old Hork, but new email - horkster@XXXXXX

Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)

Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 

'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer  
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi 
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 12:04:04 2002
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Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:04:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: motorcycle opinion question
To: LAURA GRANATO <lgranato@XXXXXX>, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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--- LAURA GRANATO <lgranato@XXXXXX> wrote:
> On Thu, 14 March 2002, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote:
> 
> > Is that any worse then storing a bike in an attached
> garage? A garage under a 
> > townhouse?
> > Just a question.
> > 
> 
> Just called the fire department.  He said "zero flammable
> liquids of that nature should be in the
> house...especially a townhouse which causes risk to the
> connecting houses."  Insurance would not pay for any
> damage if something were to happen.

he can't tell you that without reading the policy(ies)
involved.

however, now that you ARE AWARE of the risk, i imagine
you'd be in some serious shit were anything bad to happen.

you got a lease with these folks?  sounds like a
substantial breach of any standard form lease agreement
which would warrant immediate termination.

btw, this ain't legal advice


--
tg

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 12:04:06 2002
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From: "Jon Strang" <jmstrang@XXXXXX>
To: "LAURA GRANATO" <lgranato@XXXXXX>
Cc: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: motorcycle opinion question
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Importance: Normal

well, there's your answer.

Out with the flammables.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: LAURA GRANATO [mailto:lgranato@XXXXXX]

> Insurance would not 
> pay for any damage if something were to happen.
> 
> 
> LAG
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________
> PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart. 
> http://www.peoplepc.com 
> 

From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 12:04:19 2002
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In a message dated 3/14/02 11:59:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
lgranato@XXXXXX writes:


> Just called the fire department.  He said "zero flammable liquids of that 
> nature should be in the house...especially a townhouse which causes risk to 
> the connecting houses."  Insurance would not pay for any damage if 
> something were to happen.

Sounds like you have yoru answer.  The tenant is putting your house at 
risk.....and that's not cool.

--part1_44.1c980401.29c23201_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 3/14/02 11:59:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, lgranato@XXXXXX writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Just called the fire department.&nbsp; He said "zero flammable liquids of that nature should be in the house...especially a townhouse which causes risk to the connecting houses."&nbsp; Insurance would not pay for any damage if something were to happen.</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Sounds like you have yoru answer.&nbsp; The tenant is putting your house at risk.....and that's not cool.</FONT></HTML>

--part1_44.1c980401.29c23201_boundary--

From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 12:04:32 2002
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Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:00:47 -0500
To: LAURA GRANATO <lgranato@XXXXXX>
From: Rob Winters <rob@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: motorcycle opinion question
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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IANAL, but... What does the lease say?

If there's no written lease, you can probably set lots of reasonable 
restrictions on how the property is used.

Lots of leases have restrictive text on automotive mechanical work in 
excess of routine maintenance; the purpose being to prevent the place from 
becoming a shadetree mechanic's business with attendant wrecks and 
environment issues.

Almost all leases prohibit commercial enterprises not specifically called 
out as exceptions, the purpose of the property being residential. Is this a 
commercial enterprise?

Check your insurance coverage to see how much trouble you might be in if a 
tenant's rebuild results in a fire that brings the place to the ground.

I only personally know of one case where a guy was working on his bike in 
an attached garage, it caught fire, he couldn't get it out, and it burned 
his family out of house and home. OTOH, I *do* know one, so I guess only 
you know whether your glass is half empty or half full. (BTW, his insurance 
covered well, and he built a much nicer house on the same lot.)

  /// Rob


From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 12:04:49 2002
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From: LAURA GRANATO <lgranato@XXXXXX>
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Subject: Re: The New Harley Commercial
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On Thu, 14 March 2002, Fish Flowers wrote:

> 
> On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, Rob Winters wrote:
> 
> > Has anyone ever gotten a "my husband won't let me" line from a woman?
> 
> Yes, actually. Most recently from a friend whose husband won't let her
> ride or (and this is the one which surprises me) get her nipple pierced.
> 

There are many men, believe it or not, who are just as possessive and demanding as women can be.  I learned at an early age to stay away from those types. ;-)

LAG


________________________________________________
PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart. 
http://www.peoplepc.com 

From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 12:08:09 2002
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Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:08:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Keith Lamond <keithlva@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: another m/c ad
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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This one needs a disclaimer.  I just glad no one was
around me when I fired it up at work.

keith
--- Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Jon Strang wrote:
> > 
> > http://www.chivinmoto.com/images/ot3140.mpeg
> > 
> > I don't think this has been posted here before...
> 
> It's amazing the kinds of ads the yurupeens can
> get away with...  :)
> 
> Hork
> 
> -- 
> Same old Hork, but new email - horkster@XXXXXX
> 
> Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)
> 
> Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX
> Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 
> 
> '98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer  
> '99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi 
> '82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

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On Thu, 14 March 2002, Rob Winters wrote:

> 
> IANAL, but... What does the lease say?
> 

Gotta pull the lease out tonight...I do remember something in there about flammables.  

However, just called and told them they had 24 hours to get that shit out of there...Told them there would be an inspection on Saturday to see if it's gone or not.

Sucks for them...god, I can't wait to get them out of there. I think I"ll have to have a party to celebrate.

LAG





________________________________________________
PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart. 
http://www.peoplepc.com 

From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 12:10:56 2002
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I would be slightly pissed off.  That just shows a lack of caring for other peoples property on the tenants part.

Scooter

In a message dated Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:59:09 AM Eastern Standard Time, LAURA GRANATO <lgranato@XXXXXX> writes:

> Ok, just had to get everyone's opinion on this one.  Right now I have tenants living in my townhouse in Centreville, so I popped by last night to check it out.
> 
> I don't have a garage, but there is a storage room in my basement that used to be a wood working shop.  Well, I pop the doors to the room open and what do I find? 
> 
> A race bike.   Ok, first I think "cool."  I forgot this guy was a racer...then I come out of my daze and think "FIRE HAZARD!"
> 
> There is oil all over the floor, bottles of oil everywhere...
> 
> If you were me, would this piss you off and what would you do?  I've already decided what I'm gonna do, but thought this might be a fun topic.
> 
> LAG
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________
> PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart. 
> http://www.peoplepc.com 



From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 12:12:28 2002
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Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:12:24 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: motorcycle opinion question
To: LAURA GRANATO <lgranato@XXXXXX>, rob@XXXXXX
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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this is why i brought the subject up.  under the lease you
may have a right to immediate ejectment.  i'd be careful in
my communications to them if you in fact want to repossess
the property.




--- LAURA GRANATO <lgranato@XXXXXX> wrote:
> On Thu, 14 March 2002, Rob Winters wrote:
> 
> > 
> > IANAL, but... What does the lease say?
> > 
> 
> Gotta pull the lease out tonight...I do remember
> something in there about flammables.  
> 
> However, just called and told them they had 24 hours to
> get that shit out of there...Told them there would be an
> inspection on Saturday to see if it's gone or not.
> 
> Sucks for them...god, I can't wait to get them out of
> there. I think I"ll have to have a party to celebrate.


__________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 12:13:37 2002
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From: <sdave@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Cc: 
Subject: Re: The New Harley Commercial  

Laura Laments -
> > Has anyone ever gotten a "my husband won't let me" line from a 
woman?

There are many men, believe it or not, who are just as possessive and
demanding as women can be.  I learned at an early age to stay away
from those types. ;-)

   <DJY>  Because opposites attract ?  <bfg>

Dave




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From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 12:18:14 2002
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Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:17:52 EST
From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
Subject: re:  motorcycle opinion question
To: <lgranato@XXXXXX>, <sdave@XXXXXX>
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Yes.  Why do you think we've had such a strange winter?  ;-)

Scooter

In a message dated Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:46:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, LAURA GRANATO <lgranato@XXXXXX> writes:

> OH MY GOD...has hell frozen over...Dave actually agrees with me?????
> 
> :)
> 
> LAG
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________
> PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart. 
> http://www.peoplepc.com 



From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 12:22:21 2002
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Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:21:44 -0500
From: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: motorcycle opinion question
To: SKeener2@XXXXXX
Cc: jmstrang@XXXXXX, lgranato@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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Keener wrote:

> String the no-good motorcycle wanna-be up by their thumbs!!!  :) 

Yeah, who'd ever rent a house to biker scum in the first place?  :)

-- 
Same old Hork, but new email - horkster@XXXXXX

Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)

Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 

'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer  
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi 
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 12:25:41 2002
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Time to open a can of WhoopAss on them.  :-)

Scooter

In a message dated Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:59:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, LAURA GRANATO <lgranato@XXXXXX> writes:

> On Thu, 14 March 2002, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote:
> 
> > Is that any worse then storing a bike in an attached garage? A garage under a 
> > townhouse?
> > Just a question.
> > 
> 
> Just called the fire department.  He said "zero flammable liquids of that nature should be in the house...especially a townhouse which causes risk to the connecting houses."  Insurance would not pay for any damage if something were to happen.
> 
> 
> LAG
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________
> PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart. 
> http://www.peoplepc.com 



From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 12:26:54 2002
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On Thu, 14 March 2002, sdave@XXXXXX wrote:

> 
> Laura Laments -
> > > Has anyone ever gotten a "my husband won't let me" line from a 
> woman?
> 
> There are many men, believe it or not, who are just as possessive and
> demanding as women can be.  I learned at an early age to stay away
> from those types. ;-)
> 
>    <DJY>  Because opposites attract ?  <bfg>
> 

Damn,Dave...them'z fightin' words.  LOL.  I think Roach will attest to the fact that I am hardly possessive and demanding...ok, wait...maybe demanding, but not in a bad way. LOL. ;-)

LAG


________________________________________________
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http://www.peoplepc.com 

From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 12:27:21 2002
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Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:26:58 -0500
From: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: motorcycle opinion question
To: sdave@XXXXXX
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sdave@XXXXXX wrote:

> So, you already double tapped the offender ?  what did you do with
> the body ?
> 
covered the body in oil from the floor, torched the house,
and made out like a bandit on the fire insurance money?  :)
-- 
Same old Hork, but new email - horkster@XXXXXX

Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)

Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 

'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer  
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi 
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 12:31:48 2002
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I'm still confused why you were in the house?

 -----Original Message-----
From: 	LAURA GRANATO [mailto:lgranato@XXXXXX] 
Sent:	Thursday, March 14, 2002 12:09 PM
To:	rob@XXXXXX
Cc:	dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject:	Re: motorcycle opinion question

On Thu, 14 March 2002, Rob Winters wrote:

> 
> IANAL, but... What does the lease say?
> 

Gotta pull the lease out tonight...I do remember something in there about
flammables.  

However, just called and told them they had 24 hours to get that shit out of
there...Told them there would be an inspection on Saturday to see if it's
gone or not.

Sucks for them...god, I can't wait to get them out of there. I think I"ll
have to have a party to celebrate.

LAG





________________________________________________
PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart. 
http://www.peoplepc.com 

From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 12:33:36 2002
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From: <sdave@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Cc: 
Subject: Re: motorcycle opinion question  

Hork Hypothesizes 

> So, you already double tapped the offender ?  what did you do with
> the body ?
> 
covered the body in oil from the floor, torched the house,
and made out like a bandit on the fire insurance money?  :)


<DJY>  As fire inspectors are combing through the ruins...

'damn capt...  you ever seen something like this?'  'looks like this 
bozo shot himself in the chest, then the muzzle blast lit off the 
fumes from that there motorcycle, and he incinerated himself...'  I 
tell ya, these bikers are strange...'
  
Dave


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From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 12:38:12 2002
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Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:35:45 -0500
From: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: motorcycle opinion question
To: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
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ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote:
> 
> Time to open a can of WhoopAss on them.  :-)
> 

Sounds like Laura would rather have a bag of
oil-dry...but it's the thought that counts.  :)

Hork
-- 
Same old Hork, but new email - horkster@XXXXXX

Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)

Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 

'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer  
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi 
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 12:39:57 2002
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On Thu, 14 March 2002, Dale Horstman wrote:

> 
> sdave@XXXXXX wrote:
> 
> > So, you already double tapped the offender ?  what did you do with
> > the body ?
> > 
> covered the body in oil from the floor, torched the house,
> and made out like a bandit on the fire insurance money?  :)

nah, I believe in Karma...

LAG



________________________________________________
PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart. 
http://www.peoplepc.com 

From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 12:43:02 2002
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On Thu, 14 March 2002, RichH@XXXXXX wrote:

> 
> I'm still confused why you were in the house?
> 


A. Because I am starting to show the house to potential roommates.

B. Because it's my damn house and I gave them 24 hours notice that I would be there...all that's required.

LAG :)



________________________________________________
PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart. 
http://www.peoplepc.com 

From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 12:52:07 2002
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On Thu, 14 March 2002, Keith Lamond wrote:

> 
> This one needs a disclaimer.  I just glad no one was
> around me when I fired it up at work.
> 

That rules!!!! Damn sexy bike!

:-)
LAG


________________________________________________
PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart. 
http://www.peoplepc.com 

From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 12:56:55 2002
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From: <sdave@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Cc: 
Subject: Re: motorcycle opinion question  

LAG fatalistically remarked 
...
> covered the body in oil from the floor, torched the house,
> and made out like a bandit on the fire insurance money?  :)

nah, I believe in Karma...


   <DJY>  yeah, so ?  I do too, and the way I see it, I'm running 
a 'Karmic surplus' right about now after Cub Scouts, Webelos (wobble 
but they don't fall down, I know...), Boy Scouts, ARMY (Boy scouts 
without adult supervision), lots of good deeds and the like.  
Further, I take a 'fundamentalist' view of Karma in that in a similar 
situation, the 'tenant', would have to expect BAD Karma as a result 
of their foolishness, and so, my inflicting any bad karma on them 
would be a net break even, in Karma terms ;-)  


JMHO

Dave


--
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From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 13:10:08 2002
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Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:06:21 -0500
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From: Rob Winters <rob@XXXXXX>
Subject: waste gas and oil disposal?
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Since I seem to have open containers of flammable waste on the brain now, 
what are the options available for getting rid of such stuff anyway, and 
the costs, if any.

I know that there are service stations that will accept used oil, but are 
they required to, and what are they allowed to charge for doing so?

Same question re: gasoline. I now seem to have my own interesting 
collection of gas cans, each with a small quantity of old gas, and also a 
cycle tankful I'd like to drain and dispose of "properly". So what is the 
proper way, anyway, and what will it cost me? Inquiring minds want to know. 
(I can think of lots of improper ways, some of them quite spectacular, but 
I digress.)

I live in Arlington, BTW, if that matters.

Thanks.

  /// Rob


From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 13:27:12 2002
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From: "Custer, Carl" <Carl.Custer@XXXXXX>
To: "'DCCycles'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Cc: "'ersilberg@XXXXXX'" <ersilberg@XXXXXX>
Subject: The New Harley Commercial
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:30:33 -0500
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Eric Silberg confessed, "Many times when people ask me what kind of bike I
have, the response is something like: "What, you can't afford a Harley?"
Now I own sport(y) bikes so this is really quite an inane comment.  I have a
feeling they would have said the same thing if I told them I rode a BMW or a
Ducati.  If they actually knew anything, they might have said "What, you
can't afford an MV Agusta?" and this would make some sense, since I can't...
But it does go to show that people over here associate motorcycles with
Harley, and everything else is a compromise."

Bzzt, The answer is "I have a ree-al motorcycle, a Honda.  It's for riding,
not polishing."


From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 13:27:35 2002
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Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:27:30 -0800 (PST)
From: rdrdr <rydin@XXXXXX>
Reply-To: rydin@XXXXXX
Subject: phone number for Cycle Trader?
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Does anyone here have the number for Cycle Trader (not the website).

I can't seem to find it on their website.

 

Niv

BMW F650ST for sale!



---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
--0-647773198-1016130450=:49433
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<P>Does anyone here have the number for Cycle Trader (not the website).</P>
<P>I can't seem to find it on their website.</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>Niv</P>
<P>BMW F650ST for sale!</P><p><br><hr size=1><b>Do You Yahoo!?</b><br>
<a href="$rd_url/tag/http://sports.yahoo.com/">Yahoo! Sports</a> - live college hoops coverage
--0-647773198-1016130450=:49433--

From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 13:31:29 2002
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Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:31:27 -0800 (PST)
From: stephen cutchins <stephen_cutchins@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: another m/c ad
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Ah yes, the 2000 Aprilia RSV Mille in the ONLY color -
red, blue, and silver.  I was the lucky owner of
serial number 000027, too bad turn 7 at Summit Point
was hungry that race :(

--- LAURA GRANATO <lgranato@XXXXXX> wrote:
> On Thu, 14 March 2002, Keith Lamond wrote:
> 
> > 
> > This one needs a disclaimer.  I just glad no one
> was
> > around me when I fired it up at work.
> > 
> 
> That rules!!!! Damn sexy bike!
> 
> :-)
> LAG
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________
> PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart. 
> http://www.peoplepc.com 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 13:39:36 2002
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Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:39:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Keith Lamond <keithlva@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: waste gas and oil disposal?
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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Fairfax county has disposal centers that take both oil
and gas.  Locations are on the county website I
believe.  Cost is free.

Keith
--- Rob Winters <rob@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Since I seem to have open containers of flammable
> waste on the brain now, 
> what are the options available for getting rid of
> such stuff anyway, and 
> the costs, if any.
> 
> I know that there are service stations that will
> accept used oil, but are 
> they required to, and what are they allowed to
> charge for doing so?
> 
> Same question re: gasoline. I now seem to have my
> own interesting 
> collection of gas cans, each with a small quantity
> of old gas, and also a 
> cycle tankful I'd like to drain and dispose of
> "properly". So what is the 
> proper way, anyway, and what will it cost me?
> Inquiring minds want to know. 
> (I can think of lots of improper ways, some of them
> quite spectacular, but 
> I digress.)
> 
> I live in Arlington, BTW, if that matters.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
>   /// Rob
> 


__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
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From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 13:42:38 2002
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Subject: Re: The New Harley Commercial
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On Thu, 14 March 2002, "Custer, Carl" wrote:

 The answer is "I have a ree-al motorcycle, a Honda.  It's for riding,
> not polishing."


Ummm, Keiser might tend to disagree with that! ;)

LAG

P.S.  Sorry Rob, had to!!!!


________________________________________________
PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart. 
http://www.peoplepc.com 

From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 13:46:03 2002
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From: JD <jdonovan@XXXXXX>
To: Rob Winters <rob@XXXXXX>
cc: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: waste gas and oil disposal?
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On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, Rob Winters wrote:

> collection of gas cans, each with a small quantity of old gas, and also a
> cycle tankful I'd like to drain and dispose of "properly". So what is the
> proper way, anyway, and what will it cost me? Inquiring minds want to know.
> (I can think of lots of improper ways, some of them quite spectacular, but
> I digress.)

I dont know about arlington specifcly, but loudoun, fairfax,
pince-william, and more I suspect will accept oil, gas, and other
househodl-hazardous wastes at they landfill or transfer station. I dont
know if arlington has something like this for its residents, but I suspect
a call to the sanitation authority or countyr/city firemarshals office
would get your answer.

-jd


From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 14:26:01 2002
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Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:25:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Selling My 99 ZX9R
To: Razz Man <razzsounds@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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--- Razz Man <razzsounds@XXXXXX> wrote:
> I've made the painful decision to sell my beloved steed.
> After deciding that 
> it'll be at least another year or two before I can
> "pleasure ride" due to 
> the construction of my new recording studio and the
> clients already booked 
> after completion, the bike's on the market.

it is unclear how you made it past harry's initial
screening for admittance.  priorities such as these are
improper for members of this list....



--
tg

__________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 15:55:58 2002
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From: "Rob Keiser" <robkeiser@XXXXXX>
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Subject: Re: The New Harley Commercial
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:44:34 -0500
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Easy now.

But think of it, you can't ride ALL the time.  ;)

Rob
'98 VFR800  (well ridden, clean and happy)


From: LAURA GRANATO <lgranato@XXXXXX>
To: Carl.Custer@XXXXXX
CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, ersilberg@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: The New Harley Commercial
Date: 14 Mar 2002 10:42:31 -0800

On Thu, 14 March 2002, "Custer, Carl" wrote:

  The answer is "I have a ree-al motorcycle, a Honda.  It's for riding,
 > not polishing."


Ummm, Keiser might tend to disagree with that! ;)

LAG

P.S.  Sorry Rob, had to!!!!


________________________________________________
PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart.
http://www.peoplepc.com


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From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 16:19:21 2002
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Subject: CBR F3 manual
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Does anyone know where I can get an owner's manual for a 1995 CBR F3?
Thanks.

From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 17:05:34 2002
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Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:06:28 -0500
To: "Bruce Norton" <bnorton@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Larry Larson <pltrgyst@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: motorcycle opinion question
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A wood shop won't void your homeowner's insurance, and a racing bike or 
substantial stock of oil in the basement might.

-- Larry


At 11:01 AM 3/14/2002, Bruce Norton wrote:
>And a wood shop is not a fire hazard?
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "LAURA GRANATO" <lgranato@XXXXXX>
>
>
> > Ok, just had to get everyone's opinion on this one.  Right now I have
>tenants living in my townhouse in Centreville, so I popped by last night to
>check it out.
> >
> > I don't have a garage, but there is a storage room in my basement that
>used to be a wood working shop.  Well, I pop the doors to the room open and
>what do I find?
> >
> > A race bike.   Ok, first I think "cool."  I forgot this guy was a
>racer...then I come out of my daze and think "FIRE HAZARD!"
> >
> > There is oil all over the floor, bottles of oil everywhere...
> >
> > If you were me, would this piss you off and what would you do?  I've
>already decided what I'm gonna do, but thought this might be a fun topic.
> >
> > LAG






From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 17:10:39 2002
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Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:11:48 -0500
To: Rob Winters <rob@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Larry Larson <pltrgyst@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: The New Harley Commercial
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Ask my SO to go downhill skiing and you'll probably get a "my [relational 
noun of your choice] won't let me." After out-of-control teenagers wrecked 
her knee twice, causing her to miss most of two tennis seasons, I bought 
her cross-country skis as a strong hint.

OTOH, she always encourages me to head for Summit Point when the track 
season starts.

It's always convenient to have someone else to blame it on. 8;)

-- Larry


At 11:22 AM 3/14/2002, Rob Winters wrote:
>At 10:55 AM 3/14/2002, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote:
>>"I had a bike when I got married, I was always going to have a bike, my wife
>>knew that."
>
>Gawd, I must have heard it a hundred times:
>
>"I'd love to ride, but my wife won't let me."
>
>I always look at such people like they're space aliens. :-)
>
>Has anyone ever gotten a "my husband won't let me" line from a woman? Just 
>curious.
>
>  /// Rob
>
>






From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 17:12:55 2002
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Depends -- how deep is the basement?

-- Larry

At 11:32 AM 3/14/2002, Jon Strang wrote:
>..and of course, synthetic or dino?
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> >
> > There is oil all over the floor, bottles of oil everywhere...
> >






From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 17:20:47 2002
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Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:21:56 -0500
To: Rob Winters <rob@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Larry Larson <pltrgyst@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: waste gas and oil disposal?
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http://www.co.arlington.va.us/des/wpcp/hhwaste.htm (Arlington Household 
Hazardous Waste Program)

-- Larry


At 01:06 PM 3/14/2002, Rob Winters wrote:
>Since I seem to have open containers of flammable waste on the brain now, 
>what are the options available for getting rid of such stuff anyway, and 
>the costs, if any.
>
>I know that there are service stations that will accept used oil, but are 
>they required to, and what are they allowed to charge for doing so?
>
>Same question re: gasoline. I now seem to have my own interesting 
>collection of gas cans, each with a small quantity of old gas, and also a 
>cycle tankful I'd like to drain and dispose of "properly". So what is the 
>proper way, anyway, and what will it cost me? Inquiring minds want to 
>know. (I can think of lots of improper ways, some of them quite 
>spectacular, but I digress.)
>
>I live in Arlington, BTW, if that matters.
>
>Thanks.
>
>  /// Rob
>
>






From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 17:48:39 2002
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Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:39:46 -0500
Subject: Re: waste gas and oil disposal?
To: rob@XXXXXX
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: "garcia oliver" <garicao@XXXXXX>
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DC seems to require gas stations to take uncontaminated (by gasoline) oil.
(There also exist oil burning heaters that run on used motor oil, but I
have no experience with them.)


As for old/dirty gas, I filter it through cotton cloth to remove water and
rust and use it in my bikes.  Done it for years, never had any problems.

--garcia


rob@XXXXXX writes:
>I know that there are service stations that will accept used oil, but are 
>they required to, and what are they allowed to charge for doing so?
>
>Same question re: gasoline. I now seem to have my own interesting 
>collection of gas cans, each with a small quantity of old gas, and also a 
>cycle tankful I'd like to drain and dispose of "properly". So what is the 
>proper way, anyway,


From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 19:09:47 2002
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Rob Winters wrote:

> At 10:55 AM 3/14/2002, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote:
> >"I had a bike when I got married, I was always going to have a bike, my wife
> >knew that."
>
> Gawd, I must have heard it a hundred times:
>
> "I'd love to ride, but my wife won't let me."
>
> I always look at such people like they're space aliens. :-)
>
> Has anyone ever gotten a "my husband won't let me" line from a woman? Just
> curious.
>
>   /// Rob

Yes, heard that "my husband won't let me" line numerous times.  And I've also
heard "You let your wife do... !!!" numerous times.  Both get my space alien
look.

Bill


From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 19:13:19 2002
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Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:14:28 -0500
From: Lisa Goddard <lisagoddard@XXXXXX>
Subject: motorcycle opinion question
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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depends, will they let you borrow it???

Lisa


Subject: Re: motorcycle opinion question

--- LAURA GRANATO <lgranato@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Ok, just had to get everyone's opinion on this one.
> Right now I have tenants living in my townhouse in
> Centreville, so I popped by last night to check it
> out.
>
> I don't have a garage, but there is a storage room

> A race bike.   Ok, first I think "cool."  I forgot
> this guy was a racer...then I come out of my daze
> and think "FIRE HAZARD!"

> If you were me, would this piss you off and what
> would you do?  I've already decided what I'm gonna
> do, but thought this might be a fun topic.
>
> LAG
>


From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 19:13:50 2002
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PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote:

> In a message dated 3/14/2002 10:59:09 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> lgranato@XXXXXX writes:
>
> > I pop the doors to the room open and what do I find?
> >
> >  A race bike.   Ok, first I think "cool."  I forgot this guy was a racer...
> > then I come out of my daze and think "FIRE HAZARD!"
>
> Is that any worse then storing a bike in an attached garage? A garage under a
> townhouse?
> Just a question.
>
> John.
> PenguinBiker@XXXXXX

YES!  I have an attached garage.  The specs for the structure and walls are
differnet than the house - must have FIRECODE sheetrock.  And steel columns must
be covered in wood or FC sheetrock.  Etc, etc, etc....  An attached garage built
to code is designed to protect the house occupants from a fire within the garage.

Bill
The ultimate DIY - built me own dang house...



From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 19:20:00 2002
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LAURA GRANATO wrote:

> Ok, just had to get everyone's opinion on this one.  Right now I have tenants living in my townhouse in Centreville, so I popped by last night to check it out.
>
> I don't have a garage, but there is a storage room in my basement that used to be a wood working shop.  Well, I pop the doors to the room open and what do I find?
>
> A race bike.   Ok, first I think "cool."  I forgot this guy was a racer...then I come out of my daze and think "FIRE HAZARD!"
>
> There is oil all over the floor, bottles of oil everywhere...
>
> If you were me, would this piss you off and what would you do?  I've already decided what I'm gonna do, but thought this might be a fun topic.
>
> LAG

A fun topic, but NOT FUNNY!   Sweetly inform tenents they have fifteen minutes to get the bike and all accompanying fluids and junk OUTTA THERE!   Then perfrom a
*white glove* inspection to see that they've cleaned up all the oil etc.

Gasolene fumes are heavier than air.  This is a basement.  Sorta like a boat bilge.  All inboard boats have bilge blowers which must be run for a few minutes before
attempting to start the engine.  Forget this detail and a boatowner will take a not-so-cool rocket ride into the sky with the helm seat pedestal firmly implanted in
their ass.  Gasolene in a basement presents the same hazard.  GET RID THAT BIKE!

Bill


From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 19:25:39 2002
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Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:26:50 -0500
From: Lisa Goddard <lisagoddard@XXXXXX>
Subject: my husband won't let me
To: rob@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:22:42 -0500
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Rob Winters <rob@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: The New Harley Commercial

At 10:55 AM 3/14/2002, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote:
>"I had a bike when I got married, I was always going to have a bike, my
wife
>knew that."

Gawd, I must have heard it a hundred times:

"I'd love to ride, but my wife won't let me."

I always look at such people like they're space aliens. :-)

Has anyone ever gotten a "my husband won't let me" line from a woman? Just
curious.

  /// Rob

I have witnessed this sorry scene before.  My husband and I were at a
racetrack for some track time a few weekends ago.  A couple arrived early
Sunday morning.  I saw the wife in the bathroom and politely asked if she
would be out on the track.   She replied that it looked like nobody was
going to be on the track if the rain didn't let up.  I never got an answer
and left it at that.

I commented to my husband that the couple had a nice set up with a big van
to transport their bikes but I couldn't see what they had because nobody had
unloaded bikes with the rain still coming down.  My husband said that he had
asked her if she would be out on the track with me and she replied "my
husband won't let me".

I guess what leaves me so stumped about it is that it was a miserable, cold,
wet and rainy day.  I know that hell would sooner freeze over before I would
spend an entire Sunday going to a track to watch my husband go around and
around and around unless I were actively involved in the sport too.  I am
also curious to know if she rides on the street or if she rides on the back
of his bike....

Lisa Goddard
'95 VFR





From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 19:31:51 2002
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Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:33:02 -0500
From: Lisa Goddard <lisagoddard@XXXXXX>
Subject: indoor bike storage.
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PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: motorcycle opinion question

In a message dated 3/14/2002 10:59:09 AM Eastern Standard Time,
lgranato@XXXXXX writes:

> I pop the doors to the room open and what do I find?
>  A race bike.   Ok, first I think "cool."  I forgot this guy was a
racer...
> then I come out of my daze and think "FIRE HAZARD!"

Is that any worse then storing a bike in an attached garage? A garage under
a
townhouse?
Just a question.

John.
PenguinBiker@XXXXXX

Garage will not be on the HVAC system as the house to prevent the spread of
fumes, at least not if the house is not really old.  Also, the garage should
have a stronger door between it and the house that would slow, not stop, the
spread of fire.

I guess I am not one to talk.   There are usually two or three motorcycles
living in our rec. room in the basement.  Nice and close to the air intake
for the heat and next to the washer and dryer.  Just for good measure we
also keep all of the recycling in our garage next to the gas cans.

Lisa Goddard
'95 VFR



From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 19:31:58 2002
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garcia oliver wrote:

> As for old/dirty gas, I filter it through cotton cloth to remove water and
> rust and use it in my bikes.  Done it for years, never had any problems.
>
> --garcia

NOOOO!!!  Maybe your definition of old is last season, but one time I decided
to eliminate a 15 gal garboy of real old gas - dump gas from racimng outboards
which had 2-stroke oil and many mysterious *smoke* additives to make engine go
fast enough to occassionally hand grenade.   I poured a few gallons in my
pickup tank.  Hey, had about 12 gallons in it, a safe mix... WRONG!  Damn
truck made it outta the driveway abd coughed out - had to drain the damn tank,
clean the lines and throttle body - MAJOR PITA!

Old gas = fence line weedkiller

Bill


From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 20:37:53 2002
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Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 20:35:06 -0500
From: Chuck and Karen Pena <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
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OK smart people, is there some sort of formula or something to figure 
out the correct number of chain links needed based on F and R sprocket 
combinations?  Stock FZR sprockets are 15/45 and number of chain links 
is 106.  My FZR currently is -2 in front and +3 in back (i.e., 13/48) 
from the previous owner.  I want to go up one more tooth in front and 
run 14/48.  Problem is that the current chain is not long enough so that 
I can get sufficient chain slack.  So how do I know how many links more 
I need?  I don't know how many links the current chain is because it's 
in the shop (Crossroads) for some work, but I'm sure I can get Denny to 
count them for me.  Or is there a way to figure it out without knowing 
the current chain length, but knowing what the stock length is?  Much thanx!

Chuck



From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 21:28:36 2002
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From: "Todd Peer" <toddbpeer@XXXXXX>
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From: Bruce Brownlee <brownlee_b@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: dc-cycles digest for 03/13/02

At 07:00 PM 3/13/2002 -0500, 'The Horkster' wrote:
>And that, in a nutshell, seems to be Harley's total design
>philosophy.  It's not intended for those who actually ride.  Lol!  :)

any time poserboy, you and me! i may have been nursing a damaged
bike, but at least i RAN the MD2020!  god only knows HOW you
manage NEGATIVE points when you dont even ride the rally......

:-)~~~~

Bruce
'95 FLHTC - 2.99 times SaddleSore Award (and then some)....
------------------------------------------------------------------------

LMAO!  And touche!

Todd



From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 22:34:34 2002
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Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 22:44:42 -0500
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From: Wayne Edelen <wayne@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Freestate Cycle?
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At 10:16 AM 3/14/02 -0500, you wrote:
>At 09:06 AM 3/14/2002, Fish Flowers wrote:
>>On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Larry Larson wrote:
>>
>> > Nice but ignorant sales staff, nice but not-quite-as-ignorant parts
>> > people, and a big theft problem -- so the helmets are all high up on
>> > shelves behind the sales counter where you can't get at them.
>>
>>Too bad... I'm really just looking for competent sales people just
>>now. Ah, well. Thanks for responding!
>
>
>You're welcome. I'm afraid the only competent sales people I've met in the 
>area are at Clinton Cycle and Bob's BMW.
>
>-- Larry

I had good luck purchasing (and previous service on other bikes) at JT
Motorsports in Frederick, MD.  Gunner was great to deal with and I got a
nice price on my Busa.

-- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/

From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 22:42:03 2002
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Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 22:52:17 -0500
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Subject: Re: waste gas and oil disposal?
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At 01:06 PM 3/14/02 -0500, Rob Winters wrote:
>Since I seem to have open containers of flammable waste on the brain now, 
>what are the options available for getting rid of such stuff anyway, and 
>the costs, if any.
>
>I know that there are service stations that will accept used oil, but are 
>they required to, and what are they allowed to charge for doing so?
>
>Same question re: gasoline. I now seem to have my own interesting 
>collection of gas cans, each with a small quantity of old gas, and also a 
>cycle tankful I'd like to drain and dispose of "properly". So what is the 
>proper way, anyway, and what will it cost me? Inquiring minds want to know. 
>(I can think of lots of improper ways, some of them quite spectacular, but 
>I digress.)
>
>I live in Arlington, BTW, if that matters.

I live in MD and take mine to the local landfill.  They have recycling
available for most auto/bike liquids  :-)

-- Wayne

From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 23:02:07 2002
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Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:03:17 -0500
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Wayne,

What do they carry besides Suzuki?

Tnx -- Larry

At 10:44 PM 3/14/2002, you wrote:

>I had good luck purchasing (and previous service on other bikes) at JT
>Motorsports in Frederick, MD.  Gunner was great to deal with and I got a
>nice price on my Busa.
>
>-- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/






From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 23:06:19 2002
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Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:04:00 -0500
Subject: Re: waste gas and oil disposal?
To: bhuson@XXXXXX
Cc: rob@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: "garcia oliver" <garicao@XXXXXX>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020314125317.0419b9f0@mail.hq.nasa.gov>
 <fc.00858412003542793b9aca00d83aa930.3542fb@XXXXXX>
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Must have been interesting stuff!  Got any left?


--garcia


bhuson@XXXXXX writes:
>> As for old/dirty gas, I filter it through cotton cloth to remove water
>and
>> rust and use it in my bikes.  Done it for years, never had any problems.
>>
>> --garcia
>
>NOOOO!!!  Maybe your definition of old is last season, but one time I
>decided
>to eliminate a 15 gal garboy of real old gas - dump gas from racimng
>outboards
>which had 2-stroke oil and many mysterious *smoke* additives to make
>engine go
>fast enough to occassionally hand grenade.   I poured a few gallons in my
>pickup tank.  Hey, had about 12 gallons in it, a safe mix... WRONG!  Damn
>truck made it outta the driveway abd coughed out - had to drain the damn
>tank,
>clean the lines and throttle body - MAJOR PITA!
>
>Old gas = fence line weedkiller



From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 14 23:06:33 2002
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At 11:03 PM 3/14/02 -0500, Larry Larson wrote:
>Wayne,
>
>What do they carry besides Suzuki?
>
>Tnx -- Larry

Kawasaki and KTM, not sure of any others.  They had a Duke in the showroom
last time I was there  :-)

-- Wayne - http://www.purplecar.org/

From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar 15 06:20:23 2002
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From: "Kirk Roy" <kirk@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: FS: old aerostich roadcrafter 2 piece
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 06:20:17 -0500
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I have a gray w/black ballistics aerostich roadcrafter for sale. The jacket is a 40S and the pants 38R (not a waist size, they're a typical match for a 38 jacket) plus the ellipse that goes between the two pieces. It is almost 10 years old (I think 6/92 is the mfg date) and has been worn almost daily. $200/best offer. Believe it or not the suit still looks great. It's been treated with various scotchguard type products regularly through the years and has never been crashed. Most people would not guess the age or amount of usage the suit has had... Why am I getting rid of it? I'm 45 lbs heavier than 10 years ago! :)

Things it needs/could use:
velcro for main zipper closure on jacket
velcro for zipper closure on pants
right leg zipper (closes to within 4" of bottom of leg)
snap for left leg
new armor
some repairs to the jacket liner
patch on left lower leg where I inadvertently touched the exhaust and put a 
     1" or so hole in the fabric

I'm still using the suit as it is...

JPEGs available upon request.

Kirk


From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar 15 06:59:17 2002
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From: "Bruhl, George LT" <GBruhl@XXXXXX>
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Subject: Flammable Storage
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Let me get this straight.  
You were looking for a place to store a motorcycle (sans flammables, one can
only presume)
and found a M/C in a state of riding preps and....




From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar 15 07:06:42 2002
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From: "Bruhl, George LT" <GBruhl@XXXXXX>
To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Waste Oil Disposal
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Jiffy lube takes it.... but only paraffin or asphalt based (dino-squeezins)
oil, no synth, no mineral, solvents etc...  it's recycled into grade B,
which I believe is used by industry for surface lubricants on production
machinery. (don't quote me on that)

The Auto Zone takes batts

Fairfax Country Fire training center used to take solvents, paint and all
that stuff.

rags -- wrap them around a wooden club, ignite and use on Hallo weenie night



From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar 15 07:44:17 2002
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Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 04:44:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: waste gas and oil disposal?
To: "William J. Huson" <bhuson@XXXXXX>,
   garcia oliver <garicao@XXXXXX>
Cc: rob@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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--- "William J. Huson" <bhuson@XXXXXX> wrote:
>
> Old gas = fence line weedkiller

ahhh, yes, the gift that keeps giving.... to future
generations of mutants

--
tg


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
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From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar 15 08:28:47 2002
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Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 05:28:46 -0800 (PST)
From: Todd Withrow <mtwithrow@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: new aggressive driving offense in VA
To: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>, matthew patton <pattonme@XXXXXX>,
   dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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--- Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX> wrote:
> --- Todd Withrow <mtwithrow@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > 
> > > it makes no difference what effect was had on
> the
> > > "victim"
> > > if i can show that my client lacked this
> specific
> > > intent.
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > Oh yeah, it DOES matter what the effect was. 
> > 
> > I punch you in the jaw once and you laugh at me =
> > simple assault (class 1 misdemeanor)
> > 
> > I punch you in the jaw once and your jaw shatters
> =
> > malicious wounding (class 3 felony)
> > 
> > I punch you in the jaw and you fall back breaking
> your
> > neck and die = murder (class 2 felony)
> 
> no offense, todd (tip of the day: don't offend teh
> police),
> but what does this have to do with specific intent
> in
> general and teh new virginia law in particular?
> 


My point being that the effect of an action DOES
affect the seriousness of the crime regardless of the
intent. 

Todd W.

=====
AIM: Inf DS

http://www.geocities.com/mtwithrow

-----------------------------------------------------------
Used to be that we "worldproofed" our children. Now society wants to childproof the world.

__________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar 15 08:42:31 2002
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garcia oliver wrote:

> Must have been interesting stuff!  Got any left?
>
> --garcia
>

Nope.  But mid-April we'll be racing in NC.  We use a fuel checker since
*smoke* additives are prohibited in Stock classes.  All that does is improve
the chemical knowledge and skills of the boat racers.   Folks have been known
to get a *rush* just from sniffing the exhaust fumes!

Bill


From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar 15 08:52:29 2002
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