From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 00:13:57 2001 From: Brian Roach To: Tom Fitzpatrick , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: MARRC Membership Information - Web Site Correction!!!!!! Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 00:17:28 -0500 Arg... the argument is not relavent to this list, and in all honesty, I gave up caring. I wish you all the best in MARRC Political life :) MARRC has it's own agenda as does any organization, and for the most part it's all good. They do a great job cornerworking at Summit Point, and provide racers with 4 track days. A deal for $20 to be sure - they got my $20. If you want to be involved with roadracing but don't want to race - come on out and cornerwork! I think anyone interested in the sport would really enjoy it and we appreciate you being there to pick us up from time to time! If you choose to join MARRC and donate $20 to the cause, that's all good too. - Roach From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 05:19:51 2001 From: "Kathleen Loerich" To: "Goldberg, Saul" , Subject: Re: DC lane sharing/Issues Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 05:19:47 -0500 The hearing for HB 739 was yesterday (Wednesday). Bill Gawthrop and I appeared to testify against it. Delegate Jean Cryor and Andy Krajweski (sp) from the MVA testified for it. The committee may vote on the bill on Friday. Now would be an excellent time to contact the members of the Commerce and Government Matters Committee to ask them to vote NO on this bill. Committee members can be located at this URL http://www.mdarchives.state.md.us/msa/mdmanual/06hse/html/com/02cgm.html Kathleen Loerich ----- Original Message ----- From: "Goldberg, Saul" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 10:33 AM Subject: RE: DC lane sharing/Issues > Speaking of issues...does anyone gives a rats ass about the bill in the MD > general assembly that proscribes how a child may be a passenger on a bike? > Is this the most important transportation issue we are facing? Like a cannon > answer to a mosquito issue. I think someone wrote in to "Squidlock" about > the size of kid passengers, and this is the legislative response. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dale Horstman [mailto:the.horkster@XXXXXX] > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 10:13 AM > To: Paul Wilson > Cc: mobacc; dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: DC lane sharing > > > Paul Wilson wrote: > > > Yes, I saw that MCN letter too. AMA and ABATE seem to give the issue > > the big shrug, it would appear. Pity. > > That's a shame, they might find more universal support and > membership rolls increasing if they took on issues ALL bikers > could benefit by... > > > -- > Mandatory second line (CM tm) > > Dale Horstman - the.horkster@XXXXXX > Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth > > '98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer > '99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi > '82 GS850G, '87 Concours - project bikes > From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 07:07:55 2001 Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 07:09:15 -0800 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Stephen Harris Subject: MARRC Track Day vs "Roger Day" At 12:17 AM 3/1/01 -0500, Brian Roach wrote: >They do a great job cornerworking at Summit Point, and provide >racers with 4 track days. A deal for $20 to be sure - they got my $20. You got it wrong Brian. MARRC only runs one track day per year, typically on a friday before a race weekend. It normally costs around $75 or so for club member and is a excellent value for a racer for two reasons. First it is cheap. Second, use of the track on that friday is donated by track owner Bill Scott to the club. The club keeps 100% of the proceeds, which go right back into the sport we love. We can all agree is a good thing and really nice of Bill Scott to do for us. Please thank Bill Scott for this next time you see him. This year the MARRC track day is May 11th, 2001. Come out & pratice & support your club that supports your sport. Roger Lyle (rogerlyle@XXXXXX 301 933 2599) typically runs three or four "Tune & Test Days" as Summit Point independently of MARRC. Roger does this for is personal profit (he does not make much money on it, last time I checked it cost $3000 to rent Summit on a typically weekday), betterment of the sport and his enjoyment. For a racer, his days are a good value at $120. We should all thank Roger for doing this, because he has to pay the track rental fee weather or not anybody shows up. From speaking with Roger I know that there have been times when he has lost money doing this when nobody showed up. This year Roger Day's are April 18, July 5 and October 3. For both of these events one needs a racing license, which, as Tom pointed out, is a good thing. Stephen Harris Need a motorcycle related phone number or address? Try http://www.his.com/harris/shops.htm From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 07:14:09 2001 Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 07:15:30 -0800 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Stephen Harris Subject: Re: MARRC Track Day vs "Roger Day" At 07:09 AM 3/1/01 -0800, Stephen Harris wrote: > For a racer, his days are a good value at >$120. I think they may be $125 or $130 now, ask Roger at rogerlyle@XXXXXX or (301) 933-2599 if you want to know the exact cost, I'm not sure. Stephen Harris Need a motorcycle related phone number or address? Try http://www.his.com/harris/shops.htm From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 09:03:12 2001 From: "Bruce Norton" To: "DC Cycles" Subject: 4SALE: 1998 Honda VFR800 Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 09:04:58 -0500 1998 Honda VFR800 19,000 miles Good condition, always garaged, runs perfect. Dunlop D207 tires have less than 1000 miles on them. Bike is located in Leesburg, VA $6000 FIRM ( www.kbb.com value $7855 ) ( www.nada.com value $6690 in avg condition) Contact bnorton@XXXXXX directly if you have any questions. From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 09:13:03 2001 Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 06:13:01 -0800 (PST) From: "Louis F. Caplan" Subject: Re: How to pick up a fallen bike - A review To: Paul Wilson , dc-cycles list Hi all, I'm currently traveling around New York with some friends, and just got a chance to look at my e-mail (167 DC-Cycles messages, ouch!) Saw this thread and just wanted to make a few comments. (They may have been made later, but I'm still playing catch up) While picking up the bike is not part of the offical blessed MSF curriculum, if I have a few students who ask me about it during the course, I'll usually lay a bike down during lunch break on Sunday, and show them how to pick it up. Then I'll have the person who asked the most, or who showed the most doubt come and do it. It usually does the trick. As for Paul's comments about parking improperly, I usually squeeze that at the end of "Special Situations" also known as the "Mr. Murphy" segment. There are a few words about parking, and I include not facing downhill in a parking space, and why. You'll find after you teach a few times that there are some nooks and crannies in the curriculum where you can put in little pieces without going off topic or blowing the time limits. Louis ===== "Admiral" Louis Caplan 1998 Kawasaki Concours Alexandria, VA Co-Planner, MD20-20 http://www.masondixon20-20.org/ Home Page: http://members.nbci.com/Nighthawk700/cycle.htm __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 09:44:17 2001 Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 06:44:14 -0800 (PST) From: Justin Stefanon Subject: Re: DC lane sharing/Issues/ Gridweenies To: dcbike I've already heard from Leon about this...it seems to me that he's just a slow-ass, but happy to have people blow by him in the same lane and that's cool with me. that's not really how I'd define a twerp. to me a twerp is somebody in a cage who goes the same speed as Leon, but takes up a LOT more space and gets upset if you try to pass them in any lane. --- Todd Peer wrote: > From: Justin Stefanon > --- Paul Wilson wrote: > > The Grid likes to feed into an underlying sense of > > victimhood that runs > > rampant among drivers in this area. You know, > > whiners > > I knew it wasn't just me! > > I bet the twerps who write to this stupid column are > the same ones holding up traffic by going 45 in the > HOV lanes. > ------------------------------------------------- > Hey Leon! Justin just called you a twerp! Kick his > ass!!! > > Todd Peer (Springfield, VA) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 09:47:45 2001 Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 06:47:43 -0800 (PST) From: Justin Stefanon Subject: slow-ass v. slow ass To: dcbike just want to make sure you'all know the difference. i wish slow asses had a cool attitude like Leon's, then they'd just be slow-ass. I consider myself to be a fast-ass driver and rider. I try not to be a fast ass. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 10:04:33 2001 Date: 1 Mar 2001 07:04:26 -0800 To: jstefanon@XXXXXX From: LAURA GRANATO Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: slow-ass v. slow ass On Thu, 01 March 2001, Justin Stefanon wrote: > > just want to make sure you'all know the difference. > > i wish slow asses had a cool attitude like Leon's, > then they'd just be slow-ass. I consider myself to be > a fast-ass driver and rider. I try not to be a fast > ass. > Actually, not to be a smart ass, but they'd just be a slow ass. You'd only hyphenate if modifying something, like a slow-ass driver. :-) LAG ________________________________________________ PeoplePC: It's for people. And it's just smart. http://www.peoplepc.com From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 10:08:59 2001 From: "Doug Allis" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, pc800@XXXXXX Subject: HJC Helmet Real cheap, used Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 15:08:52 Any one want a used HJC medium? Its black, full face, SNELL-95. Its about two years old, got a few scratches. Its also got the Fog City shield. Its never been dropped, just looks like it has -- ;-) I just got a nice shiny new Nolan 100 clasic. Best offer gets the HJC. I don't have room to keep three helmets in my closet. I've cleaned it, I think I may still even have the original instruction book around somewhere... Doug Allis DHAllis@XXXXXX _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 10:13:10 2001 Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 07:13:09 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: 4SALE: 1998 Honda VFR800 To: Bruce Norton , DC Cycles i don't know what has gotten into bruce, but he's being quite generous here. excellent bike at an excellent price. , i wish i had $6k sittin' around. --- Bruce Norton wrote: > 1998 Honda VFR800 > 19,000 miles > Good condition, always garaged, runs perfect. > Dunlop D207 tires have less than 1000 miles on them. > Bike is located in Leesburg, VA > > $6000 FIRM > > ( www.kbb.com value $7855 ) > ( www.nada.com value $6690 in avg condition) > > > Contact bnorton@XXXXXX directly if you have any > questions. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 10:41:13 2001 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "LAURA GRANATO" Cc: "dc-cycles list" Subject: Re: slow-ass v. slow ass Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 10:37:45 -0500 Isn't this a technically "Nestorism," named for a local man who tried to start a crusade of blocking traffic with "slow-ass" (i.e. strict adherence to the legal limit) use of the left lane. He was a local celebrity of sorts a few years ago. LAG: let's not start up with the grammar and spelling nit-picking, even though it's an occupational hazard for some of us. :) Paul in DC ----- Original Message ----- From: LAURA GRANATO To: Cc: Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 10:04 AM Subject: Re: slow-ass v. slow ass > On Thu, 01 March 2001, Justin Stefanon wrote: > > > > > just want to make sure you'all know the difference. > > > > i wish slow asses had a cool attitude like Leon's, > > then they'd just be slow-ass. I consider myself to be > > a fast-ass driver and rider. I try not to be a fast > > ass. > > > > Actually, not to be a smart ass, but they'd just be a slow ass. You'd only hyphenate if modifying something, like a slow-ass driver. :-) > > LAG From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 11:20:36 2001 Date: 1 Mar 2001 08:20:29 -0800 To: jstefanon@XXXXXX From: LAURA GRANATO Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: slow-ass v. slow ass On Thu, 01 March 2001, Justin Stefanon wrote: > > This is email after all, let's not start correcting > each other's grammar and spelling goodness gracious, can't anyone take a joke around here???? LAG ________________________________________________ PeoplePC: It's for people. And it's just smart. http://www.peoplepc.com From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 11:27:12 2001 Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 08:27:11 -0800 (PST) From: Justin Stefanon Subject: Re: slow-ass v. slow ass To: LAURA GRANATO Cc: dcbike apparently not, I was kidding. thus the "logic" bs that followed as George Carlin said, "I'm always down for semantics" don't play with me unless you're ready to accept that I consist almost wholly of play. --- LAURA GRANATO wrote: > On Thu, 01 March 2001, Justin Stefanon wrote: > > > > This is email after all, let's not start > correcting > > each other's grammar and spelling > > goodness gracious, can't anyone take a joke around > here???? > > LAG > > > > ________________________________________________ > PeoplePC: It's for people. And it's just smart. > http://www.peoplepc.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 11:53:40 2001 From: "Goldberg, Saul" To: dcbike Subject: RE: OT--slow-ass/Grammar Police Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 11:50:49 -0500 Actually, it does matter and it does not at the same time. Some things can be clearly understood regardless of which syLAble is accenTED. A smile, for instance is pretty universal in all cultures regardless of how many teeth show, how it is spelled, capitalized, or decorated with punctuation marks. Other things can vary widely based on the simple misplacement of a comma or a letter. I think I understand the intent of most of the list postings, irrespective the misplaced punctuation and misspellings. But sometimes, I am not exactly sure of the intent. However, if I were involved in judicial proceedings, I would most certainly want everyone on the same page as far as exacting communication goes. -----Original Message----- From: Justin Stefanon [mailto:jstefanon@XXXXXX] Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 11:27 AM To: LAURA GRANATO Cc: dcbike Subject: Re: slow-ass v. slow ass apparently not, I was kidding. thus the "logic" bs that followed as George Carlin said, "I'm always down for semantics" don't play with me unless you're ready to accept that I consist almost wholly of play. --- LAURA GRANATO wrote: > On Thu, 01 March 2001, Justin Stefanon wrote: > > > > This is email after all, let's not start > correcting > > each other's grammar and spelling > > goodness gracious, can't anyone take a joke around > here???? > > LAG > > > > ________________________________________________ > PeoplePC: It's for people. And it's just smart. > http://www.peoplepc.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 12:16:59 2001 Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 09:16:54 -0800 (PST) From: Justin Stefanon Subject: motorcycle online article "New AMA Initiative Against Cars" To: dcbike just think how safe the roads'll be without those nuisances! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 12:46:20 2001 From: Danny Thompson To: "Dc-Cycles (E-mail)" Subject: RE: 4SALE: 1998 Honda VFR800 Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 12:49:06 -0500 Encoding: 30 TEXT Man, this is a sweet deal. Bruce's bike is cherry and I can speak to the fact that he has maintained it well. Why are you selling it Bruce? Danny #903 Novice (WERA, CCS) '98 VTR '00 SV (For SALE) www.onewayracing.org Proudly Sponsored by: Blalock Cycle www.blalockcycle.com, Shen Valley Trailers www.shenvalleywarrenton.com On Thursday, March 01, 2001 9:05 AM, Bruce Norton [SMTP:bnorton@XXXXXX] wrote: > 1998 Honda VFR800 > 19,000 miles > Good condition, always garaged, runs perfect. > Dunlop D207 tires have less than 1000 miles on them. > Bike is located in Leesburg, VA > > $6000 FIRM > > ( www.kbb.com value $7855 ) > ( www.nada.com value $6690 in avg condition) > > > Contact bnorton@XXXXXX directly if you have any questions. > > From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 12:52:15 2001 Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 12:52:13 -0500 From: "Chris Norloff" To: "List-dc cycles" Subject: Keith Code's "No B.S." Bike Interesting article - Keith Code's "No B.S. (No Body Steering)" Bike with fixed handlebars proves motorcycle do not steer with body weight. http://popularmechanics.com/popmech/out/0102BOODWFAP.html Chris Norloff From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 13:25:22 2001 Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 10:25:15 -0800 (PST) From: "aaronspencerward@XXXXXX" To: List-dc cycles Subject: Re: Keith Code's "No B.S." Bike I swear I have steered my bike with my hands off the handlebars. Aaron On Thu, 1 Mar 2001, Chris Norloff wrote: > Interesting article - Keith Code's "No B.S. (No Body Steering)" Bike > with fixed handlebars proves motorcycle do not steer with body weight. > > http://popularmechanics.com/popmech/out/0102BOODWFAP.html > > Chris Norloff > __________________________________________________________________________ Aaron S. Ward aaronspencerward@XXXXXX Whatever happens, remember it's the journey, not the destination From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 13:25:21 2001 Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 10:25:19 -0800 (PST) From: Justin Stefanon Subject: Re: Keith Code's "No B.S." Bike To: dcbike Amazing that there ever was a controversy when anybody with a friggin TIG welder could've done what Code has done and proven what Code seems to have proven. This reminds me of a cool-ass article on bicycle dynamics where this dude tried to make an unridable bicycle, as apposed to Code's bike, which is ridable but not steerable. He succeeded, but the findings were very interesting regarding gyroscopic effects, the effects of rake and trail, and so forth. I don't remember who wrote it or in what, but if anyone is curious as to how to make an unridable bike, I have the articles at home and can get reference info. If you just don't give a shit, well that's ok, too. --- Chris Norloff wrote: > > Interesting article - Keith Code's "No B.S. (No Body > Steering)" Bike with fixed handlebars proves > motorcycle do not steer with body weight. > > http://popularmechanics.com/popmech/out/0102BOODWFAP.html > > Chris Norloff __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 13:32:10 2001 Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 10:32:08 -0800 (PST) From: Trey Herb Subject: Re: Keith Code's "No B.S." Bike To: DC-Cycles I have done it with no hands on a bicycle, but if you notice when you lean it makes the bars turn. --- "aaronspencerward@XXXXXX" wrote: > > I swear I have steered my bike with my hands off the > handlebars. > > Aaron > > On Thu, 1 Mar 2001, Chris Norloff wrote: > > Interesting article - Keith Code's "No B.S. (No > Body Steering)" Bike > > with fixed handlebars proves motorcycle do not > steer with body weight. > > > > > http://popularmechanics.com/popmech/out/0102BOODWFAP.html > > > > Chris Norloff > > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > Aaron S. Ward > aaronspencerward@XXXXXX > Whatever happens, remember it's the journey, > not the destination > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 13:39:56 2001 Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 10:39:55 -0800 (PST) From: Justin Stefanon Subject: Re: Keith Code's "No B.S." Bike To: dcbike I know for a fact a bicycle can be consistently steered with the hands totally elsewhere. maybe those handlebars are such a distraction to the rider that they are not using the footpegs. maybe the zx-6r just has too much steering damper. the results, unfortunately, of Code's research are not presented in any scientific way. we have no way of knowing if Code even used scientific method. It seems like he's come up with an apparatus that could give conclusive results. I would like to see a bike with a fixed steering head, but where would they find a volunteer to try to turn that? --- "aaronspencerward@XXXXXX" wrote: > > I swear I have steered my bike with my hands off the > handlebars. > > Aaron > > On Thu, 1 Mar 2001, Chris Norloff wrote: > > Interesting article - Keith Code's "No B.S. (No > Body Steering)" Bike > > with fixed handlebars proves motorcycle do not > steer with body weight. > > > > > http://popularmechanics.com/popmech/out/0102BOODWFAP.html > > > > Chris Norloff > > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > Aaron S. Ward > aaronspencerward@XXXXXX > Whatever happens, remember it's the journey, > not the destination > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 13:42:05 2001 Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 13:40:31 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Sean Jordan Subject: Re: Keith Code's "No B.S." Bike I can see how body lean/position would not steer the bike.....the gyroscopic effect caused by the spinning front wheel keeps the bike standing straight up. By applying pressure to the bars, you're changing the vector characteristics of the gyroscope (front wheel) resulting in the bike turning. If you look at pictures of bikes on tracks in a serious lean, you will sometimes actually see the bike's front wheel pointing in a direction contrary to the path being pursued by the bike! You can see such a pic by clicking the following links. http://www.angelfire.com/mac/eternity23/countersteering.jpg (I'm sure I'm horribly wrong, or right for the wrong reasons. Let the flames/corrections begin.) -- "For man, maximum excitement is the confrontation of death and the skillful defiance of it." -Ernest Becker (1924-1974) Sean Jordan '93 Honda CBR1000F (Street) '90 Yamaha FZR400 (Race) WERA Novice #230 MARRC member #3038 From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 13:48:49 2001 From: "Matthew Patton" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 13:47:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Keith Code's "No B.S." Bike depending on how heavy the bike is relative to you, it's speed and slope of pavement you can turn a bike with just body lean but it will be a very shallow and inprecise turn. You can do it on bicycles rather easily. But in a bicycle the mass of the rider is about 10+ times that of the vehhicle. Plus, the spinning inertia of a bicyle wheel is negligible compared to the likes of a MC wheel. -- "Civilization can only begin when sex is restrained." - Sigmond Freud _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://mail.theglobe.com Powered by Outblaze From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 13:56:24 2001 From: "Matthew Patton" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 13:56:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Keith Code's "No B.S." Bike yeah a fixed steering head is the real criteria for a honest test. I mean, a fall or run=off into the pan at 30mph is hardly life threatening... I don't think it would be too hard at all. take a normal steering damper, cut notches into it and make a locking collar that prevents any kind of travel. -- "Civilization can only begin when sex is restrained." - Sigmond Freud _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://mail.theglobe.com Powered by Outblaze From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 14:01:29 2001 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'DCCycles'" Subject: DC lane sharing Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 14:03:03 -0500 The Motorcycle Safety Agenda (someone posted last November) on page 51 quotes the Hurt Report that traveling between lanes of stopped or slow moving cars on multiple lane roads slightly reduces crash frequency . . . One recommendation is "Study the safety implications of lane splitting" FWIW, ! 10 years ago, I was ticketed in Arlington for driving a half block between stopped cars and going into a parking lot (my destination). The cop followed me into the computer store. Cop didn't show up at court. Matthew Patton, concluded "Given the seemingly universal sheer incompetence of American drivers regardless of caste, I'd say we'd have rather more carnage. It's almost like we should have graduated licensing on CARS and trucks. If only driver education was actually stringent." Tis a shame that the auto industry (with gummimint prodding) has improved the safety of automobiles greatly over the past four decades -- yet if anything -- the competence of operators seems to have decreased. Maybe it's a combination of the greater comfort and safety of their cages. "BDC" is in common use on motorcycle lists. I think it is because as motorcyclists we've had additional training, we are (generally) in a higher position to view more traffic (antics), and we see more because to remain safe, we have to stay alert. As a result of our observational experience, a goodly number of automobile operators appear "Brain Dead" yet remain safe within their improved cages. Better training is needed. But, I suspect asking for more stringent licensing would be the political equivalent of a fart in church. However, the alternative is a worsening of the status quo. tg claimed, "i was in london over the summer. lane-splitting is legal there," Same with Spain especially Malaga. Paul in DC speculated, "I guess the Grid doesn't care that much about his reputation. He was clearly used in this situation." The Dr. seems to be not too bright (garage door, buying used car). But he successfully panders to the crowd. At one time his column appeared to be a forum for traffic woes in the metro area. Leon lamented, "You get less respect from the cagers than a motorcycle does and you don't have the power to get away from them." I try to always wave at Moped riders -- hey they're in the same pool as we but with less power -- sometime I get a return wave but more often it's just a incredulous look. Hmm, maybe it's the tooters. Carl in Bethesda Don't need no loud pipes; I got big honking tooters: http://members.tripod.com/~v65_magna/sos_99/sat_lunch2.jpg http://www.crosswinds.net/~denbrook/Motorcycles/Events/mmc-2-17-01/Carls_Sab re.jpg From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 14:03:12 2001 From: Brian Roach To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Keith Code's "No B.S." Bike Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 14:06:44 -0500 AAAIIIEEE!!!! Weld yourself up a bike and try it. It will NOT turn. This is the whole point of Code's bike. The reason many, many people keep insisting they've done it "just by leaning" is that their leaning causes the front end to turn, and countersteer (usually by moving their weight one direction, then shifting it the other). If you weld the steering head so that it will not move, the bike will not turn. Not that this is a pet peeve of mine or anything... :-D - Roach From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 14:10:15 2001 From: Brian Roach To: "Custer, Carl" , "'DCCycles'" Subject: Re: DC lane sharing Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 14:13:53 -0500 On Thu, 01 Mar 2001, Custer, Carl wrote: > Tis a shame that the auto industry (with gummimint prodding) has improved > the safety of automobiles greatly over the past four decades -- yet if > anything -- the competence of operators seems to have decreased. Maybe > it's a combination of the greater comfort and safety of their cages. I have a favorite saying in regard to this... "Manufacturers keep making things more and more idiot-proof. Unfortunatly the Universe keeps churning out better idiots." - Roach From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 14:14:03 2001 From: "Ahalan" To: Subject: RE: Keith Code's "No B.S." Bike Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 14:11:53 -0800 Motorcycle Consumer News has an article this month pitting Keith Code's arguments that only counter steering will steer a bike against other experienced and professional riders who claim otherwise. There is no mention of the "No B.S." bike, but the conclusion is that Keith Code is right, but you can cause counter steering when you push your weight to one side, even without deliberately moving the handlebars. Niv BMW F650ST From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 14:29:45 2001 Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 11:29:44 -0800 (PST) From: "aaronspencerward@XXXXXX" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Keith Code's "No B.S." Bike On Thu, 1 Mar 2001, Brian Roach wrote: > Weld yourself up a bike and try it. It will NOT turn. This is the whole point > of Code's bike. Call me crazy, but after I read the article, it seemed that the point was to weld additional non-turning handlebars, not to prevent the front end from turning. > The reason many, many people keep insisting they've done it "just by leaning" > is that their leaning causes the front end to turn, and countersteer (usually > by moving their weight one direction, then shifting it the other). What you describe here is what Code has apparently "proven" impossible. He says moving your weight/shifting will NOT cause the bike to turn. > If you weld the steering head so that it will not move, the bike will > not turn. I agree, but after reading the article I can't see that this was done. They didn't prevent the front wheel from being turned; they just added another set of handlebars that were rigidly connected to the frame instead of the front end. My guess is that maybe he proved that throttle input has a greater effect on steering (when leaned over) than weight shifting, then some bonehead misinterpreted it on popular mechanics. But who knows until we get some more details. Aaron __________________________________________________________________________ Aaron S. Ward aaronspencerward@XXXXXX Whatever happens, remember it's the journey, not the destination From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 14:30:40 2001 Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 11:30:36 -0800 (PST) From: Justin Stefanon Subject: Re: Keith Code's "No B.S." Bike To: dcbike Beware blather: one of the findings of the unridable bike article was a dimunition of the perceived importance of gyroscopic effect. however motos have much heavier gyros. as far as the front wheel not pointing in the direction of the turn, this is the nature of vehicle dynamics, whenever you're turning, you create slip angle, the degree of which determines how quicly you turn. slip angle is measured by the difference between where your tire is pointing and where your bike is headed, at any instantaneous moment. of course, everything gets a little fuzzy when you talk about motorcycles. It's damn near impossible to make a computer models that accurately depict the dynamic behavior of a bike, let alone an mc. the idea exists, though, that the cross-section of the motorcycle tire will cause the bike to turn if it can be leaned. essentially, the contact patch at any instantaneous point represents itself to the road as a conical section, when you are going straight the point of the cone is at or near infinity and thus seems to be cylindrical (like a wheel) by leaning the bike you change the aspect ratio of the conical section, indirectly creating slip angle. however, it is not easy to lean a bike on two wheels without any steering input. there are those who insist they can steer while wheelying by using the footpegs, but they are only on one wheel where theoretically it is easier to lean the bike. personally I like to wait for the front wheel to come down. that's basically motorcycle dynamics as quickly as I can recite it. all of this means nothing to most riders, because, let's face it, motorcycles work pretty damn nicely as is. However, this is important to those of us who are dedicated to, or curious about, the idea of swingarm front suspension systems. Don't forget, none of the engineers who came up with this shit can explain why I can steer a bicycle with my ass. It seems to me that what Keith Code has shown is that the normal rider does not have the skill set to lean a bike without steering input, whether it's possible or not. I believe it's possible because of the bicycle thing. Those of you who know more about statistics than I might insist that he hasn't proven anything at all, because we don't know where he got these riders. Until somebody tries to take a bike with a steering damper of near-infinite stiffness around Summit, it'll be hard to answer this question --- Sean Jordan wrote: > I can see how body lean/position would not steer the > bike.....the > gyroscopic effect caused by the spinning front wheel > keeps the bike > standing straight up. By applying pressure to the > bars, you're > changing the vector characteristics of the gyroscope > (front wheel) > resulting in the bike turning. If you look at > pictures of bikes on > tracks in a serious lean, you will sometimes > actually see the bike's > front wheel pointing in a direction contrary to the > path being > pursued by the bike! > > You can see such a pic by clicking the following > links. > > http://www.angelfire.com/mac/eternity23/countersteering.jpg > > (I'm sure I'm horribly wrong, or right for the wrong > reasons. Let the > flames/corrections begin.) > > > > > > -- > "For man, maximum excitement is the confrontation of > death and the > skillful defiance of it." > > -Ernest Becker (1924-1974) > > Sean Jordan > '93 Honda CBR1000F (Street) > '90 Yamaha FZR400 (Race) > WERA Novice #230 > MARRC member #3038 > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 14:30:49 2001 Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 11:30:46 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: RE: 4SALE: 1998 Honda VFR800 To: Danny Thompson , "Dc-Cycles \(E-mail\)" st4-s! st4-s! st-4s! or, just a plain ol' 929rr :( ;) --- Danny Thompson wrote: > Man, this is a sweet deal. Bruce's bike is cherry and I > can speak to the fact > that he has maintained it well. Why are you selling it > Bruce? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 14:33:15 2001 Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 11:33:13 -0800 (PST) From: Justin Stefanon Subject: Re: Keith Code's "No B.S." Bike To: dcbike Well, if Code's steering held was welded, then I just wasted a whole lot of finger-skin over nothing, because that fucker will not turn. I assumed it wasn't welded, because why two sets of bars if it was? --- Brian Roach wrote: > > AAAIIIEEE!!!! > > Weld yourself up a bike and try it. It will NOT > turn. This is the whole point > of Code's bike. > > The reason many, many people keep insisting they've > done it "just by leaning" > is that their leaning causes the front end to turn, > and countersteer (usually > by moving their weight one direction, then shifting > it the other). If you > weld the steering head so that it will not move, the > bike will not turn. > > Not that this is a pet peeve of mine or anything... > :-D > > - Roach __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 14:36:35 2001 Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 11:36:33 -0800 (PST) From: Justin Stefanon Subject: Re: DC lane sharing To: dcbike it's sad that the standard cagers relative obtuseness, which we use BDC to describe, is in fact likely to leave us as bikers actually brain dead. --- "Custer, Carl" wrote: > The Motorcycle Safety Agenda (someone posted last > November) on page 51 > quotes the Hurt Report that traveling between lanes > of stopped or slow > moving cars on multiple lane roads slightly reduces > crash frequency . . . > One recommendation is "Study the safety implications > of lane splitting" > > FWIW, ! 10 years ago, I was ticketed in Arlington > for driving a half block > between stopped cars and going into a parking lot > (my destination). The cop > followed me into the computer store. Cop didn't > show up at court. > > Matthew Patton, concluded "Given the seemingly > universal sheer incompetence > of American drivers regardless of caste, I'd say > we'd have rather more > carnage. It's almost like we should have graduated > licensing on CARS and > trucks. If only driver education was actually > stringent." > Tis a shame that the auto industry (with gummimint > prodding) has improved > the safety of automobiles greatly over the past four > decades -- yet if > anything -- the competence of operators seems to > have decreased. Maybe it's > a combination of the greater comfort and safety of > their cages. > "BDC" is in common use on motorcycle lists. I think > it is because as > motorcyclists we've had additional training, we are > (generally) in a higher > position to view more traffic (antics), and we see > more because to remain > safe, we have to stay alert. As a result of our > observational experience, a > goodly number of automobile operators appear "Brain > Dead" yet remain safe > within their improved cages. > Better training is needed. But, I suspect asking > for more stringent > licensing would be the political equivalent of a > fart in church. However, > the alternative is a worsening of the status quo. > > tg claimed, "i was in london over the summer. > lane-splitting is legal > there," > Same with Spain especially Malaga. > > Paul in DC speculated, "I guess the Grid doesn't > care that much about his > reputation. He was clearly used in this situation." > The Dr. seems to be not too bright (garage door, > buying used car). But he > successfully panders to the crowd. At one time his > column appeared to be a > forum for traffic woes in the metro area. > > Leon lamented, "You get less respect from the cagers > than a motorcycle does > and you don't have the power to get away from them." > I try to always wave at Moped riders -- hey they're > in the same pool as we > but with less power -- sometime I get a return wave > but more often it's just > a incredulous look. Hmm, maybe it's the tooters. > > Carl in Bethesda > Don't need no loud pipes; I got big honking tooters: > http://members.tripod.com/~v65_magna/sos_99/sat_lunch2.jpg > http://www.crosswinds.net/~denbrook/Motorcycles/Events/mmc-2-17-01/Carls_Sab > re.jpg > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 14:37:53 2001 From: Brian Roach To: Justin Stefanon , dcbike Subject: Re: Keith Code's "No B.S." Bike Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 14:41:32 -0500 On a motorcycle or bicycle, if the bike is turning, the front end has turned. If you take Code's class or read his books you'll see his point is that at speed, a bike turns because the front is countersteered. If you understand and accept this, you can improve your technique and skill. Yes, you can get a bike or motorcycle to turn to some degree without touching the handlebars - but whatever it is you're doing is making the front end turn - that is Code's point. It also isn't going to get you around a 90 degree turn - wiggling around in the seat *might* get you about 5 degrees. IMHO, this isn't turning... it's a mild trajectory change at best. His whole teaching theory is to not waste time and attention on unnecessay things because you only have a limited amount. He teaches that the one and only way a bike turns is via countersteering, and that the *best* way to countersteer is to use the handlebars and not waste time and attention trying to do it some other way. - Roach From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 14:38:07 2001 Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 11:38:05 -0800 (PST) From: Justin Stefanon Subject: Re: Keith Code's "No B.S." Bike To: dcbike maybe i've been too pessimistic in insisting nobody would ride such a bike in the interest of science. I know I would, and I'm not even nuts enough to race motorcycles. or is it just that I'm too poor/married? --- Matthew Patton wrote: > yeah a fixed steering head is the real criteria for > a honest test. I mean, a fall or run=off into the > pan at 30mph is hardly life threatening... I don't > think it would be too hard at all. take a normal > steering damper, cut notches into it and make a > locking collar that prevents any kind of travel. > -- > > > "Civilization can only begin when sex is > restrained." - Sigmond Freud > > > _______________________________________________ > Get your free email from http://mail.theglobe.com > > > Powered by Outblaze __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 14:43:44 2001 Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 11:43:42 -0800 (PST) From: Justin Stefanon Subject: Re: Keith Code's "No B.S." Bike To: dcbike well, I wouldn't argue with code's point at all. his skill as a teacher is widely acknowledged. but a bogus scientific experiment to prove a pedagogical technique don't suit me. I can get around pretty well on the bicycle with my hands full, but when lean angle exceeds about 15-20 degrees, confidence goes right out the window. btw 90 is just 5X18, knowwhumsayin? --- Brian Roach wrote: > > On a motorcycle or bicycle, if the bike is turning, > the front end has turned. > If you take Code's class or read his books you'll > see his point is that at > speed, a bike turns because the front is > countersteered. If you understand > and accept this, you can improve your technique and > skill. > > Yes, you can get a bike or motorcycle to turn to > some degree without touching > the handlebars - but whatever it is you're doing is > making the front end turn > - that is Code's point. It also isn't going to get > you around a 90 degree > turn - wiggling around in the seat *might* get you > about 5 degrees. IMHO, > this isn't turning... it's a mild trajectory change > at best. > > His whole teaching theory is to not waste time and > attention on unnecessay > things because you only have a limited amount. He > teaches that the one and > only way a bike turns is via countersteering, and > that the *best* way to > countersteer is to use the handlebars and not waste > time and attention trying > to do it some other way. > > > - Roach __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 14:44:18 2001 Original-Encoded-Information-Types: IA5-Text Content-Identifier: RE: DC lane shar Autoforwarded: FALSE Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 14:29:28 -0500 From: "Custer, Carl" Subject: RE: DC lane sharing To: "'roach(a)dcc-racing.org(p)inter2'" , "'DCCycles'" - Roach recalled, " I have a favorite saying in regard to this... > "Manufacturers keep making things more and more idiot-proof. Unfortunatly > the > Universe keeps churning out better idiots." [Custer, Carl] Or as my sweetie sez, "Mutha Nature is a bitch" From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 14:52:48 2001 Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 14:52:46 -0500 From: "Chris Norloff" To: , Sean Jordan Subject: Re: Keith Code's "No B.S." Bike ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Sean Jordan >If you look at pictures of bikes on >tracks in a serious lean, you will sometimes actually see the bike's >front wheel pointing in a direction contrary to the path being >pursued by the bike! >http://www.angelfire.com/mac/eternity23/countersteering.jpg (I couldn't get the picture to come up, but anyway ...) When you initiate countersteering, the steering turns the "wrong" way. The bike then leans, the steering turns the "right" way and the bike turns. This one-way-then-the-other of the front wheel is easy to observe if: 1) bike coming toward you and rider countersteers. particularly noticeable if the headlight is mounted to the front forks. 2) ride through a puddle in an otherwise dry parking lot. countersteer (remember you have less traction 'cause your tires are wet). Go back and look at the watermarks. The rider doesn't feel the steering move, he/she just feels the pressure in the handlebar. best, Chris Norloff From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 14:54:30 2001 Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 14:53:41 -0500 From: Dale Horstman Subject: Re: DC lane sharing To: "Custer, Carl" Cc: "'roach(a)dcc-racing.org(p)inter2'" , "'DCCycles'" "Custer, Carl" wrote: > > - Roach recalled, " I have a favorite saying in regard to this... > > "Manufacturers keep making things more and more idiot-proof. Unfortunatly > > the > > Universe keeps churning out better idiots." > [Custer, Carl] > Or as my sweetie sez, "Mutha Nature is a bitch" My favorite is "Fate is a fickle bitch with a sense of humor". -- Mandatory second line (CM tm) Dale Horstman - the.horkster@XXXXXX Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth '98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer '99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi '82 GS850G, '87 Concours - project bikes From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 14:55:04 2001 From: Brian Roach To: Justin Stefanon , dcbike Subject: Re: Keith Code's "No B.S." Bike Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 14:58:41 -0500 On Thu, 01 Mar 2001, Justin Stefanon wrote: > the idea exists, though, that the > cross-section of the motorcycle tire will cause the > bike to turn if it can be leaned. essentially, the > contact patch at any instantaneous point represents > itself to the road as a conical section, when you are > going straight the point of the cone is at or near > infinity and thus seems to be cylindrical (like a > wheel) At speed, the sidewalls of a motorcycle tire flex and the contact patch is much more flat than conical (Unless, or course, you have filled the tire with so much air that it will not do so... at which point it slides). > there are those > who insist they can steer while wheelying by using the > footpegs, but they are only on one wheel where > theoretically it is easier to lean the bike. > personally I like to wait for the front wheel to come > down. This is completely true... you can easily steer a motorcycle on the rear wheel, the same way you can turn a Uni-cycle. With only one wheel making contact with the ground, the dynamics change completely. Weight can cause the wheel to rotate on the Z-axis because there's nothing (i.e. the front wheel) preventing it from doing so. If this were not true... Uni-cyclers would have real short trips and that guy who holds the record for riding a wheelie would need a REAL long, straight road rather than a big parking lot. :) From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 14:59:53 2001 Date: 1 Mar 2001 11:59:38 -0800 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: LAURA GRANATO Subject: twilight zone Ok, someone correct me if I'm wrong...isn't Harry's site www.dc-cycles.org? if so, check it out...what the heck? Or am I just having a blonde moment? LAG ________________________________________________ PeoplePC: It's for people. And it's just smart. http://www.peoplepc.com From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 15:01:07 2001 From: "Christopher Weaver" To: "dcbike" Subject: RE: Keith Code's "No B.S." Bike Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 08:59:54 -0500 Here's another example which may go some way toward complicating the discussion: Have you ever pushed a grocery cart and then hopped onto the back just for kicks while shopping? Have you noticed how impossible it was to steer the thing while you were on it? This isn't because the cart had lousy wheels (which it did). It was because the cart and yourself (as far as Ma Nature was concerned) were a single unit, and however you leaned away from or pushed on the cart, there was an equal and opposite reaction from the cart. This led the cart to follow the same path it did before you tried to turn it, and therefore landed you in the middle of a stack of discounted cans of lima beans. Before you realize that a cart has four wheels rather than two, consider this: A two-wheeled vehicle can be turned by turning the steering input (same as a car), but that will cause the same equal and opposite reaction as the grocery cart had, causing the bike to fall toward the opposite side as it was steered. In the case of a four-wheeled vehicle, this reaction takes the form of body lean or loss of wheel traction. The two-wheeled vehicle, when in a stable lean, is simply in a constant state of falling toward the opposite side of the steering input. Any comments? Chris Weaver VTR, YSR, www.dccycles.com From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 15:01:36 2001 Date: 1 Mar 2001 12:01:30 -0800 To: jstefanon@XXXXXX From: LAURA GRANATO Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Keith Code's "No B.S." Bike On Thu, 01 March 2001, Justin Stefanon wrote: > > well, I wouldn't argue with code's point at all. his > skill as a teacher is widely acknowledged. but a > bogus scientific experiment to prove a pedagogical > technique don't suit me But sometimes, that is what people need to make it click in their brains...obvious proof of the theory. LAG ________________________________________________ PeoplePC: It's for people. And it's just smart. http://www.peoplepc.com From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 15:02:00 2001 Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 12:01:58 -0800 (PST) From: Justin Stefanon Subject: Re: Keith Code's "No B.S." Bike To: dcbike thinking back, I believe I was mistaken in referring to the contact patch as conical, but rather the section of tire which directly abuts the contact patch is conical. the carcass of the tire pulling on the contact patch, trying to restore it to conical cross-section, is probably what causes there to be a slip angle. what I'm sure of is no slip angle=no turn. Are there any REAL vehicle dynamicists out there? because I quit grad school before having to really understand all this noise. what makes two wheels easier to turn than one, other than balance, is that you're on two virtual cones instead of one. --- Brian Roach wrote: > On Thu, 01 Mar 2001, Justin Stefanon wrote: > > the idea exists, though, that the > > cross-section of the motorcycle tire will cause > the > > bike to turn if it can be leaned. essentially, > the > > contact patch at any instantaneous point > represents > > itself to the road as a conical section, when you > are > > going straight the point of the cone is at or near > > infinity and thus seems to be cylindrical (like a > > wheel) > > At speed, the sidewalls of a motorcycle tire flex > and the contact patch is > much more flat than conical (Unless, or course, you > have filled the tire with > so much air that it will not do so... at which point > it slides). > > > there are those > > who insist they can steer while wheelying by using > the > > footpegs, but they are only on one wheel where > > theoretically it is easier to lean the bike. > > personally I like to wait for the front wheel to > come > > down. > > This is completely true... you can easily steer a > motorcycle on the rear > wheel, the same way you can turn a Uni-cycle. With > only one wheel making > contact with the ground, the dynamics change > completely. Weight can cause the > wheel to rotate on the Z-axis because there's > nothing (i.e. the front wheel) > preventing it from doing so. If this were not > true... Uni-cyclers would have > real short trips and that guy who holds the record > for riding a wheelie would > need a REAL long, straight road rather than a big > parking lot. :) > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 15:03:36 2001 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'Dale Horstman'" , "Custer, Carl" Cc: "'roach(a)dcc-racing.org(p)inter2'" , "'DCCycles'" Subject: RE: DC lane sharing Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 15:05:13 -0500 > My favorite is "Fate is a fickle bitch with a sense of humor". [Custer, Carl] "T'aint funny McGee" Not, when she's the one behind the wheel of the 4 X 4 =8^O Or the ^%$# taxi sliding sideways in the slippery snow. :^< Carl in Bethesda (still nursing the knee) From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 15:06:48 2001 From: Brian Roach To: Justin Stefanon , dcbike Subject: Re: Keith Code's "No B.S." Bike Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 15:10:27 -0500 On Thu, 01 Mar 2001, Justin Stefanon wrote: > Well, if Code's steering held was welded, then I just > wasted a whole lot of finger-skin over nothing, > because that fucker will not turn. I assumed it > wasn't welded, because why two sets of bars if it was? It's not - I was making a point that if it WAS, you wouldn't turn. The article clouds what he teaches a bit, and what the bike is supposed to show people, I think.... then we got off on a discusion about physics. People who take his class will often claim they turn their bike, and I mean *turn* their bike, by leaning (or with the footpegs, etc) ... not countersteering with the bars. He will politely try and explain that this isn't the case... some people get it, some people smirk and think they know more than he does. These students are actually countersteering... they just don't know it. His bike proves this to them because when they try and steer it the way they normally do... remarkably, it does't turn (except maybe the tiny aforementioned 5%) This was the point I was trying to make... that you countersteer a bike, no mateer what you're doing to achieve that. Yes, I can ride a bicycle no handed too :) I think if you practiced and practiced, you could use weight shifting to get the front end of a motorcycle to countersteer enough to actually turn... I also think you'd fall down a LOT practicing it, LOL. - Roach From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 15:08:40 2001 From: "Matthew Patton" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 15:08:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Keith Code's "No B.S." Bike > alone an mc. the idea exists, though, that the > cross-section of the motorcycle tire will cause the > bike to turn if it can be leaned. essentially, the > contact patch at any instantaneous point represents > itself to the road as a conical section, when you are > going straight the point of the cone is at or near > infinity and thus seems to be cylindrical (like a > wheel) by leaning the bike you change the aspect ratio > of the conical section, indirectly creating slip > angle. however, it is not easy to lean a bike on two > wheels without any steering input. there are those assuming a welded, immobal front end: since when you lean the bike over the wheel circumfrance is shorter the front end will have to spin faster. Depending on traction and the like the front may indeed push (aka slide) in a straight line or depending on vehicular mass/balance/what have you, that vector may move off to one side somewhat. That then can cause a turn but as and others have said it's only a matter of a few degrees if that. The bike sure won't stay stable though. Bryan, I'm not contradicting Keith at all. I think he's 100% correct. > who insist they can steer while wheelying by using the footpegs, but they are only on one wheel where I believe this has to do with changing contact patch shape, angle, and direction by repositioning CG and balance points. > this shit can explain why I can steer a bicycle with > my ass. because your weight xfer is causing slight deflections in the front wheel yoke. Ie, you're actually turning the front end, even if it's a couple degrees. > not. I believe it's possible because of the bicycle > thing. Those of you who know more about statistics If you weighed 3500lbs and rode a 350lb bike you'd see the same dynamics on a MC as you do your bicycle. On a bicycle YOU are the major source of CG and mass. On an MC it's the other way around. Actually I'd hazard a guess that if you were to fit bicycle tires of the same rotating mass as a MC wheel, you'd have a damn hard time getting that bike to steer by just using your ass. No matter if you're a "slow ass" or just a "slow-ass". -- "Civilization can only begin when sex is restrained." - Sigmond Freud _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://mail.theglobe.com Powered by Outblaze From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 15:09:59 2001 Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 12:09:57 -0800 (PST) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: twilight zone To: LAURA GRANATO , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Looks like Harry was having some fun. Glenn --- LAURA GRANATO wrote: > Ok, someone correct me if I'm wrong...isn't Harry's > site www.dc-cycles.org? if so, check it out...what > the heck? Or am I just having a blonde moment? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 15:33:49 2001 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 15:33:24 EST Subject: Re: twilight zone To: glenn_dysart@XXXXXX, lgranato@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 3/1/2001 3:12:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, glenn_dysart@XXXXXX writes: << Looks like Harry was having some fun. Glenn --- LAURA GRANATO wrote: > Ok, someone correct me if I'm wrong...isn't Harry's > site www.dc-cycles.org? if so, check it out...what > the heck? Or am I just having a blonde moment? >> That was good Harry. I'm convinced. The future is NOW!!!! :-) Scooter (2000 YZF-R6 R/W/B) From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 16:01:01 2001 Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 13:00:59 -0800 (PST) From: Justin Stefanon Subject: Re: Keith Code's "No B.S." Bike To: dcbike Code knows what he's doing. Popular mechanics is what would happen if scientists worked at wal-mart --- Brian Roach wrote: > On Thu, 01 Mar 2001, Justin Stefanon wrote: > > Well, if Code's steering held was welded, then I > just > > wasted a whole lot of finger-skin over nothing, > > because that fucker will not turn. I assumed it > > wasn't welded, because why two sets of bars if it > was? > > It's not - I was making a point that if it WAS, you > wouldn't turn. > > The article clouds what he teaches a bit, and what > the bike is supposed to > show people, I think.... then we got off on a > discusion about physics. > > People who take his class will often claim they turn > their bike, and I mean > *turn* their bike, by leaning (or with the footpegs, > etc) ... not > countersteering with the bars. He will politely try > and explain that this > isn't the case... some people get it, some people > smirk and think they know > more than he does. > > These students are actually countersteering... they > just don't know it. His > bike proves this to them because when they try and > steer it the way they > normally do... remarkably, it does't turn (except > maybe the tiny > aforementioned 5%) > > This was the point I was trying to make... that you > countersteer a bike, no > mateer what you're doing to achieve that. Yes, I can > ride a bicycle no handed > too :) I think if you practiced and practiced, you > could use weight shifting > to get the front end of a motorcycle to countersteer > enough to actually > turn... I also think you'd fall down a LOT > practicing it, LOL. > > - Roach __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 16:12:02 2001 Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 13:11:57 -0800 (PST) From: Justin Stefanon Subject: Re: Keith Code's "No B.S." Bike To: dcbike however, theoretically, the dynamics are identical. it's only a matter of degree, change the values of all of the variables involved and you seem to get a different behavior, but we're really only talking about different extremes of the same behavior. it's not scientific to say that you can't steer a motorcycle without countersteering, just that it's a stupid notion to believe you can ride like that. Keith Code chose to defy science in order to dispell some seriously stupid notions, for which I don't fault him. as usual PM blew everything out of proportion. I was then inclined to do likewise. --- Matthew Patton wrote: > depending on how heavy the bike is relative to you, > it's speed and slope of pavement you can turn a bike > with just body lean but it will be a very shallow > and inprecise turn. You can do it on bicycles rather > easily. But in a bicycle the mass of the rider is > about 10+ times that of the vehhicle. Plus, the > spinning inertia of a bicyle wheel is negligible > compared to the likes of a MC wheel. > -- > > > "Civilization can only begin when sex is > restrained." - Sigmond Freud > > > _______________________________________________ > Get your free email from http://mail.theglobe.com > > > Powered by Outblaze __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 16:15:52 2001 Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 16:10:10 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: "aaronspencerward@XXXXXX" CC: List-dc cycles Subject: Re: Keith Code's "No B.S." Bike I know I have - piloted my old Suzuki most of the way across NH with no touchy. But tiny wieght shifts AKA body nudges do make the handlebars move slightly in response to the lean. Bill aaronspencerward@XXXXXX wrote: > I swear I have steered my bike with my hands off the handlebars. > > Aaron > > On Thu, 1 Mar 2001, Chris Norloff wrote: > > Interesting article - Keith Code's "No B.S. (No Body Steering)" Bike > > with fixed handlebars proves motorcycle do not steer with body weight. > > > > http://popularmechanics.com/popmech/out/0102BOODWFAP.html > > > > Chris Norloff > > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > Aaron S. Ward aaronspencerward@XXXXXX > Whatever happens, remember it's the journey, not the destination From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 16:19:38 2001 Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 13:19:36 -0800 (PST) From: Justin Stefanon Subject: RE: Keith Code's "No B.S." Bike To: dcbike raise your hand if you know what a shopping cart looks like at 50mph. my hand is up if you really want to play with this piece of dynamics, get on an adult tricycle (without the VW engine, the kind they sell in bicycle shops). get that inside wheel up and you can really turn that mutha fast. it feels counter-intuitive becuz your body's leaning to the outside of the curve, but it's the same principle. those things arent really designed for stunts, but you can get 'em to bunny hop, too. if you bust it, don't tell your grandma i made you break her trike. --- Christopher Weaver wrote: > Here's another example which may go some way toward > complicating the > discussion: > > Have you ever pushed a grocery cart and then hopped > onto the back just for > kicks while shopping? Have you noticed how > impossible it was to steer the > thing while you were on it? This isn't because the > cart had lousy wheels > (which it did). It was because the cart and yourself > (as far as Ma Nature > was concerned) were a single unit, and however you > leaned away from or > pushed on the cart, there was an equal and opposite > reaction from the cart. > This led the cart to follow the same path it did > before you tried to turn > it, and therefore landed you in the middle of a > stack of discounted cans of > lima beans. > > Before you realize that a cart has four wheels > rather than two, consider > this: A two-wheeled vehicle can be turned by turning > the steering input > (same as a car), but that will cause the same equal > and opposite reaction as > the grocery cart had, causing the bike to fall > toward the opposite side as > it was steered. In the case of a four-wheeled > vehicle, this reaction takes > the form of body lean or loss of wheel traction. The > two-wheeled vehicle, > when in a stable lean, is simply in a constant state > of falling toward the > opposite side of the steering input. > > Any comments? > > Chris Weaver > VTR, YSR, www.dccycles.com > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 16:58:43 2001 Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 13:32:52 -0800 (PST) From: "aaronspencerward@XXXXXX" To: Christopher Weaver cc: dcbike Subject: RE: Keith Code's "No B.S." Bike On Thu, 1 Mar 2001, Christopher Weaver wrote: > Here's another example which may go some way toward complicating the > discussion: > Have you ever pushed a grocery cart and then hopped onto the back just for > kicks while shopping? Have you noticed how impossible it was to steer the I think that gyroscopic precession exists. I believe in it. A grocery cart cannot roll/lean along the axis of travel the way a motorcycle/bicycle does, so the turnable wheels that are used to steer do not get turned by precession on the cart. Please note that when you put the steering input to the wheel, it will also precess on the roll/lean axis. The cart wheels can't roll on their own axes of travel, but a motorcycle does. Precession rolls the motorcycle over, just as rolling a motorcycle precesses the wheel to turn. You can roll a bike over by shifting your weight, precessing the front tire into a turn. You can't roll a cart. Also note that the wheel turns in the direction of the lean when you roll/lean a bike to the side. However, if you turn the handlebars, the wheel precesses the bike to lean out of the turn, thus enforcing a countersteer. You can try this with a bicycle too. Spin the front tire with the bike off the ground, then lean the bike to a side. The handlebars/wheel will turn into the lean. Turn the handlebars, and the bike will lean the opposite way. __________________________________________________________________________ Aaron S. Ward aaronspencerward@XXXXXX Whatever happens, remember it's the journey, not the destination From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 17:49:21 2001 Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 14:49:17 -0800 (PST) From: Adam Reinhardt Subject: Carrying an extra Helmet? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX What is the best way to carry an extra helmet for a future passenger? I have a nylon elastic cargo net, but it doesn't seem to work very well in securing the helmet. There is no passenger rail on my bike either from which to attach it. I know one way is to loop it around your left arm (popular in Argentina)... Ahh, Other ideas? Adam Reinhardt '89 CBR __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 18:35:28 2001 Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 15:35:20 -0800 (PST) From: Justin Stefanon Subject: Plenty BS Bike To: dcbike Said to see such a silly string (not to be confused with Silly-StringTM) put to rest. So many attempts to describe complex dynamical systems by focusing on a single point in space can only fail. I feel that someday mankind will understand all of the intricacies of the human mind, time&space, and motorcycle dynamics. I hope not in that order. I'm shocked that nobody bit on the shopping cart thing. Maybe tomorrow? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 19:18:56 2001 To: LAURA GRANATO cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: twilight zone Content-ID: <18547.983492290.1@XXXXXX> Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 19:18:10 -0500 From: Harry Mantakos >Ok, someone correct me if I'm wrong...isn't Harry's site www.dc-cycles.org? >if so, check it out...what the heck? Or am I just having a blonde moment? The dc-cycles content distribution infrastructure makes use of facilities provided by Meretrix Technologies, and is located at the data center at Meretrix global headquarters. As a result of a recent capacity upgrade, for a short time the Meretrix corporate web page, normally accessible as www.meretrix.com, was displayed when Internet users requested the www.dc-cycles.org web page. Within minutes of the problem's first detection, a team of engineers was assembled to investigate the problem, determine the core cause, and plan a remedying course of action. As a result of this prompt response, this problem should clear up entirely within an hour or so of this announcement. The problem was not a result of any wrong-doing by Meretrix Technologies nor dc-cycles management and staff, but resulted from faulty equipment provided by other vendors. Meretrix feels that there is no basis for a class action lawsuit filed by dc-cycles subscribers. Meretrix and dc-cycles have taken measures to ensure that a similar failure could not occur in the future. -harry p.s. It is the policy of Meretrix Technologies to not comment on rumors, and as such it neither confirms nor denies that its primary global data center is located under a desk in Harry's dining room. From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 21:38:26 2001 From: "Kevin Bechtel" To: , Subject: Spare helmet Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 21:36:02 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C0A297.9D530900 What is the best way to carry an extra helmet for a future passenger? I have a nylon elastic cargo net, but it doesn't seem to work very well in securing the helmet. =20 Adam, I ride a ' 99 CBR and a relatively new bungee that's not all = stretched seems to work well for me.Also, I use a tail bag that bungee's = to the bike well and is large enough to hold a full face helmet. It has = side pouches on the sides and a spot in the back for maps or whatever. = It protects the helmet petty good also in case you don't find that = passenger. Mine folds up small enough to store under the seat, and comes = with a rain cover. Any way... good luck. Kevin 1999 CBR 900 RR ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C0A297.9D530900
What is the best way to carry an extra = helmet for=20 a
future passenger? I have a nylon elastic cargo net,
but it = doesn't seem=20 to work very well in securing the
helmet. 
   Adam, I ride a ' 99 CBR = and a=20 relatively new bungee that's not all stretched seems to work well for = me.Also, I=20 use a tail bag that bungee's to the bike well and is large enough to = hold a full=20 face helmet. It has side pouches on the sides and a spot in the back for = maps or=20 whatever. It protects the helmet petty good also in case you don't find = that=20 passenger. Mine folds up small enough to store under the seat, and comes = with a=20 rain cover. Any way... good luck. Kevin 1999 CBR 900=20 RR
------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C0A297.9D530900-- From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 21:48:56 2001 From: "Todd Peer" To: "AA DC-Cycles" Subject: 98 VFR for sale Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 21:47:13 -0500 From: "Bruce Norton" To: "DC Cycles" Subject: 4SALE: 1998 Honda VFR800 Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 09:04:58 -0500 1998 Honda VFR800 19,000 miles Good condition, always garaged, runs perfect. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Dunlop D207 tires have less than 1000 miles on them. Bike is located in Leesburg, VA $6000 FIRM ( www.kbb.com value $7855 ) ( www.nada.com value $6690 in avg condition) Contact bnorton@XXXXXX directly if you have any questions. --------------------------------------- Make that "Excellent Condition". Bruce is very mechanically inclined and only second in his fastidious attitudes to Glenn Dysart. The bike is worth a look for anyone interested in a 98VFR. Todd Peer (Springfield, VA) From dc-cycles-request Thu Mar 1 22:27:24 2001 Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 22:27:25 -0500 From: Larry Meyer To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Moving sale at Cycle Sport Springfield Service team - Ed and Bob went to Powerride formerly Coleman right? Any chance they'll have influence and improve things? If not, service just got real inconvenient for this non-wrencher. Larry Meyer Annandale, VA 1997 Bandit 1200 "Louis F. Caplan" wrote: > As I mentioned a week or so ago, Cycle Sport Springfield is moving to > Alexandria. > > {snip} > > Now they just need a new service team. > > Louis From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar 2 07:05:11 2001 Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 04:05:10 -0800 (PST) From: Scratch Subject: Channel 4 Traffic Babe Goes to Daytona To: DCC I've always suspected that the traffic girl was up to no good. Turns out she's a biker. As part of the inane patter that seems to take up 50% of local news broadcasts, she mentioned she was going to Daytona. One of the other yucksters said, "Oh do you have a Harley!?" She stopped them cold (for a second) when she said, "Yes." :) Traffic reporter rides a bike. Hmmm... Kinda like a priest being a marriage counselor, isn't it? ;) Rich __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar 2 07:15:31 2001 Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 07:09:53 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: Scratch CC: DCC Subject: Re: Channel 4 Traffic Babe Goes to Daytona Scratch wrote: > I've always suspected that the traffic girl was up to > no good. Turns out she's a biker. > > As part of the inane patter that seems to take up 50% > of local news broadcasts, she mentioned she was going > to Daytona. One of the other yucksters said, "Oh do > you have a Harley!?" She stopped them cold (for a > second) when she said, "Yes." :) > > Traffic reporter rides a bike. Hmmm... Kinda like a > priest being a marriage counselor, isn't it? ;) Well, she could be like a priest/marriage counselor - she *has* a Harley but never actually rides it. Mayor of Daytona Beach: "Where the did all these f*****g trailers come from?" Bill From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar 2 07:22:35 2001 From: "Kevin Bechtel" To: Subject: Sat. ride? Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 07:20:01 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C0A2E9.31E75DE0 Are there any rides Saturday? If not I might be riding around 11:00 or = 12:00. Probably the back roads of Stafford and Faulkier Co. You may Join = me if you like. Let me know tonight. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C0A2E9.31E75DE0
Are there any rides Saturday? If not I = might be=20 riding around 11:00 or 12:00. Probably the back roads of Stafford and = Faulkier=20 Co. You may Join me if you like. Let me know = tonight.
------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C0A2E9.31E75DE0-- From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar 2 08:35:00 2001 Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 08:34:58 -0500 From: "Chris Norloff" To: "William J. Huson" CC: List-dc cycles Subject: Re: Keith Code's "No B.S." Bike I've steered with no hands, too. I think there are two points: 1. motorcycles can be steered by body weight, but this is just minor corrections to a given course, not going around street corners (for example) 2. the steering must be able to move for the bike to turn. locked steering would likely result in an unrideable bike. Chris Norloff ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "William J. Huson" Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 16:10:10 -0500 >I know I have - piloted my old Suzuki most of the way across NH with no >touchy. But tiny wieght shifts AKA body nudges do make the handlebars move >slightly in response to the lean. > >Bill > >aaronspencerward@XXXXXX wrote: > >> I swear I have steered my bike with my hands off the handlebars. >> >> Aaron >> >> On Thu, 1 Mar 2001, Chris Norloff wrote: >> > Interesting article - Keith Code's "No B.S. (No Body Steering)" Bike >> > with fixed handlebars proves motorcycle do not steer with body weight. >> > >> > http://popularmechanics.com/popmech/out/0102BOODWFAP.html >> > >> > Chris Norloff >> > >> >> __________________________________________________________________________ >> Aaron S. Ward aaronspencerward@XXXXXX >> Whatever happens, remember it's the journey, not the destination > > From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar 2 08:39:33 2001 Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 08:39:31 -0500 From: "Chris Norloff" To: Harry Mantakos CC: Subject: Re: twilight zone ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Harry Mantakos >The problem was not a result of any wrong-doing by Meretrix >Technologies nor dc-cycles management and staff, but resulted >from faulty equipment provided by other vendors. Meretrix feels >that there is no basis for a class action lawsuit filed by dc-cycles >subscribers. Meretrix and dc-cycles have taken measures to ensure >that a similar failure could not occur in the future. >-harry Not good enough. We must HANG THE BLAGGARDS! there, I feel much better now. Chris Norloff From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar 2 08:47:32 2001 Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 05:45:33 -0800 (PST) From: Aaron Subject: Motorcycle Dynamics (was countersteering) To: jstefanon@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX For the engineers, scientists, and other eggheads among us, there is an interesting, albeit highly technical, website describing the dynamics of motorcycle turning, engines, suspensions (forks v. telever), high-sides, low-sides etc. at http://www.mecc.unipd.it/~cos/DINAMOTO/indexmoto.html These fellows use some type of proprietary 3D mechanical modeling software to model the physics of motorcycles, and come to some conclusions which are interesting in light of the flame wars that erupt from time-to-time. On braking, the moto-scientists come to the conclusion that in high-friction conditions, the front-rear brake ratio should be 90%:10%. (Sure, we all knew that.) But in lower friction conditions (e.g., rain) "the importance of the rear braking force is not negligible, as in high friction condition," and the optimum ratio for maximum braking is closer to 55%:45% (depending on the weight distribution on the motorcycle). Also, they explain how, when "approaching a turn, the rear brake contributes to the motorcycle directional stability." Check it out. Aaron M. '98 Triumph Speed Triple (green, of course) ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar 2 09:55:26 2001 Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 09:55:13 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: Channel 4 Traffic Babe Goes to Daytona At 07:05 AM 3/2/01, you wrote: >Traffic reporter rides a bike. Hmmm... Kinda like a >priest being a marriage counselor, isn't it? ;) Maybe she met through Jim Vance. He is a rider. Although he has been known to say some stupid moto related stuff in the past. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar 2 10:40:32 2001 Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 07:40:31 -0800 (PST) From: Scratch Subject: Re: Channel 4 Traffic Babe Goes to Daytona To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Maybe she met through Jim Vance. Yeah. She said she is going to Daytona with Jim Vance. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar 2 11:15:26 2001 Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 08:15:09 -0800 (PST) From: Hugh Caldwell To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Carrying an extra Helmet? I can fit an extra helmet in my tank bag or on top of it but I usually just use a cargo net to strap it to the back seat. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Hugh A. Caldwell BeGeek Simpleton#9 ZR750-C2 VFR800FI ---------------------------------------------------------------- From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar 2 11:32:48 2001 From: "Matthew Patton" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 11:32:45 -0500 Subject: HOV nonsense and the cops While chowing down on some otherworldly good ribs last night I chatted up a State Trooper who was also enjoying his pulled pork sandwich at Anna's BBQ Heaven. (BTW, Bikenight there, anyone?) I asked what a civilian call-in would result in. And he said that unless you the offended party was going to press charges that they'll do nothing. Sending a letter in the mail would amount to harassment, supposedly. So, another point of view to balance with the desk seargents'. -- "Civilization can only begin when sex is restrained." - Sigmond Freud _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://mail.theglobe.com Powered by Outblaze From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar 2 12:31:15 2001 Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 12:28:42 -0500 From: Dale Horstman Subject: Old bikes rule! To: GS List Well, the front brake pads on my Concours are getting dangerously thin, but it was too nice to not ride to work today - so I crossed fingers and toes and went out to attempt to fire up the ol' Suzuki GS850G this morning. I bought the thing back in November as a project bike, and hadn't planned on really riding it much until I fixed up the weak brakes, marginal battery, slipping clutch, torn seat cover, weepy fork seals, worn out springs, dented front fender, and rusted bits. Probably should change the tires out, too, since they are looking a little ratty. I was able to change the filter and oil in the engine, gearcase, and final shaft drive (oh, how I love shaft drive!) and get it all inspected and legal before the weather got really crappy, at least. Not wanting the GS to just sit, I've been occasionally firing it up and taking it out for a spin on nice days this winter. I still get a kick out of riding it, but have had a couple of other projects surface recently (a free '87 Concours, and an old Chevy Conversion van) so I'm afraid it might get backburnered for a little while longer. Anyway, it's been 3 or 4 weeks since it's last ride, and I hoped there was still enough juice in the old battery to crank it over. If not, I'm stuck driving a 4-wheeler to work - yuck... Hope upon hope, prime gas, find neutral, full choke, couple of throttle twists, turn key, press button - crank, crank, crank, VROOOOOOMMMM!!!! Yes!!!! I'm starting to really like this old bike. Scurry back into the house, grab all my gear, and rush back outside while it warms up. Listen to it tickover, slight backfire in one cylinder - might have to take those carbs off and give 'em a good cleaning, too... Still, doesn't sound bad at all for a 19 year old bike... Have a nice little 20 mile ride to work, the Northern VA area commute takes on a slightly different perspective when I can't accelerate or brake as quickly as I am used to. Not really the bike's fault, once the brakes and clutch are fixed, and on better tires, this thing is gonna be a real hoot to ride harder. Anyway, for now I mellow out, putt along in the slow lane mostly, and just let events happen. Nice contrast to my usual ride... :) And I still had a nice big smile on my face when I got to work. It's amazing how just about any two-wheeled motorbike can put me in that kind of good mood. I'm looking forward (like usual) to the ride home. Ride on, Horkster -- Mandatory second line (CM tm) Dale Horstman - the.horkster@XXXXXX Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth '98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer '99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi '82 GS850G, '87 Concours - project bikes From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar 2 12:37:24 2001 Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 12:37:19 -0500 From: "Chris Norloff" To: Subject: Re: HOV nonsense and the cops ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Matthew Patton" >While chowing down on some otherworldly good ribs last night I chatted up a State Trooper who was also enjoying his pulled pork sandwich at Anna's BBQ Heaven. (BTW, Bikenight there, anyone?) > >I asked what a civilian call-in would result in. And he said that unless you the offended party was going to press charges that they'll do nothing. Okay, so the offended party (the motorcyclist who was pushed out of his lane) wants to press charges - what next? Will they actually go forward with traffic charges or is this limited to civil action where you have to show damages? Chris Norloff From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar 2 14:17:05 2001 Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 11:17:02 -0800 (PST) From: Justin Stefanon Subject: GS850G/go-karts To: dcbike I. Horkster, I hadn't realized the GS was a recent acquisition. Any and all GS owners should take a look at www.gsresources.com oh, it's nice, very nice website, oh yes. cleaning the carbs is imperative, I can say that much. I have a Clymer manual which I'm pretty sure covers the 850. I know it's for big-bore GS_G, which isn't even what I have. If you think you might need it let me know. I've upgraded to the Suzu factory manual. II. whoever brought up the go-kart thing: remind me please of the name and location of the go-kart track, I might have a chance to check it out __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar 2 14:52:26 2001 Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 13:51:11 -0600 From: "George Cole" To: , Subject: Re: GS850G/go-karts Hey Justin Here is the web site, they are near Sterling about a mile or two from the NOVA campus. http://www.allsportsgp.com/ I may go up on Sunday, if it isn't snowing too bad. George Cole 00 VFR 99 R6 for track days and general hooliganism >>> Justin Stefanon wrote "II. whoever brought up the go-kart thing: remind me please of the name and location of the go-kart track, I might have a chance to check it out" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar 2 15:21:01 2001 From: Brian Roach To: "George Cole" , , Subject: Re: GS850G/go-karts Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 15:24:18 -0500 On Fri, 02 Mar 2001, George Cole wrote: > Here is the web site, they are near Sterling about a mile or two from the > NOVA campus. Sean, myself, and my friend Gil went last Tues and had a blast. It it quite possibly the most fun I've ever had racing go-carts, but it's a little on the pricey side. Not saying you don't get what you pay for - these little buggers are much closer to racing carts than the ones you drive at the beach, and can hit 30mph down the front stretch on the indoor track which really gives you a sense of going FAST. They give you lap times, top speed, etc. after each track session. - Roach From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar 2 15:33:27 2001 Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 15:31:45 -0500 From: Dale Horstman Subject: Re: GS850G/go-karts To: Justin Stefanon Cc: dcbike Justin Stefanon wrote: > > I. Horkster, > I hadn't realized the GS was a recent acquisition. Yep. But it was sort of upstaged by the free Concours I picked up New Year's Day... :) > Any and all GS owners should take a look at > www.gsresources.com Yep, good site. > cleaning the carbs is imperative, I can say that much. Yeah, I know... I'm just not too excited about doing it, I've rounded off my share of stubborn carb screws in the past... > I have a Clymer manual which I'm pretty sure covers > the 850. I know it's for big-bore GS_G, which isn't > even what I have. If you think you might need it let > me know. I've upgraded to the Suzu factory manual. Thanks, I've got a Haynes manual that is pretty much the same thing. Shows me just enough to get into trouble with. :) I always snicker when I read phrases like "Re-assembly is simply the reverse of removal" in tech manuals.... yeah right. Dale -- Mandatory second line (CM tm) Dale Horstman - the.horkster@XXXXXX Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth '98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer '99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi '82 GS850G, '87 Concours - project bikes From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar 2 16:28:48 2001 From: "Doug Allis" To: cnorloff@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: HOV nonsense continues.... Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 21:28:38 I can confirm what the trooper said. At 1:00 yesterday afternoon I swore out a complaint against the owner of the Lexus who tried to make a motorcycle sandwich out of me two weeks ago. After giving my statement the Fairfax County magistrate issued a warrant on the driver of the car. She had already admitted to a state trooper that she was actually in the HOV lanes at the same time I was, and drove next to me. What next: The trooper delivers the warrant to her sometime in the next few days. The tentative court date is May 17. The charge is a criminal charge of reckless driving. I did not get a choice of what she was charged with. The magistrate made that decision after hearing my story. Hey, where's Anna'? That sounds like a much more tasty subject.... Doug Allis >From: "Chris Norloff" >Reply-To: >To: >Subject: Re: HOV nonsense and the cops >Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 12:37:19 -0500 > >---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- >From: "Matthew Patton" > >While chowing down on some otherworldly good ribs last night I chatted up >a State Trooper who was also enjoying his pulled pork sandwich at Anna's >BBQ Heaven. (BTW, Bikenight there, anyone?) > > > >I asked what a civilian call-in would result in. And he said that unless >you the offended party was going to press charges that they'll do nothing. > >Okay, so the offended party (the motorcyclist who was pushed out of his >lane) wants to press charges - what next? Will they actually go forward >with traffic charges or is this limited to civil action where you have to >show damages? > >Chris Norloff _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar 2 16:50:04 2001 From: "Matthew Patton" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 16:49:58 -0500 Subject: afternoon ride I couldn't resist the call of the openroad this afternoon. Didn't go far, just around the Centerville area and NW of it. Took me sport bike down Braddock road till it turned into dirt and gravel and kept on going. Did about 7 miles of the dirt until I got to the intersection with Goshen RD at which point there wasn't any hard-pack left - just inches deep of gravel. I decided that the better part of valor was to turn around. After all that time spent at 1/2 crouch, my legs were sore and quivering. If this is going to be anything like what Amer. SuperCamp is going to be, then I'm going to have one aching set of thights after just a partial day!! After all the dancing of the rear end (try some uphills on highly crowned roads), riding on tarmac after that exercise felt like I was on glass, it felt so incredibly smooth. On the way to get some fuel, I waved to 2 FFax county bike cops sitting by the side of the road looking fully bored. They pointedly looked away. Some brotherhood! Why are FFax police such pinheads? -- "Civilization can only begin when sex is restrained." - Sigmond Freud _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://mail.theglobe.com Powered by Outblaze From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar 2 20:50:30 2001 Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 20:50:28 -0500 From: "Chris Norloff" To: "Doug Allis" , "List-dc cycles" Subject: Re: HOV nonsense continues.... Thanks for the details! Best wishes for a good outcome. I guess you're out of the loop now, since the charge is criminal it's the state against the Lexusian? best, Chris Norloff ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Doug Allis" Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 21:28:38 >I can confirm what the trooper said. At 1:00 yesterday afternoon I swore >out a complaint against the owner of the Lexus who tried to make a >motorcycle sandwich out of me two weeks ago. After giving my statement the >Fairfax County magistrate issued a warrant on the driver of the car. She had >already admitted to a state trooper that she was actually in the HOV lanes >at the same time I was, and drove next to me. > >What next: The trooper delivers the warrant to her sometime in the next few >days. The tentative court date is May 17. The charge is a criminal charge of >reckless driving. I did not get a choice of what she was charged with. The >magistrate made that decision after hearing my story. > >Hey, where's Anna'? That sounds like a much more tasty subject.... > >Doug Allis > > >>From: "Chris Norloff" >>Reply-To: >>To: >>Subject: Re: HOV nonsense and the cops >>Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 12:37:19 -0500 >> >>---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- >>From: "Matthew Patton" >> >While chowing down on some otherworldly good ribs last night I chatted up >>a State Trooper who was also enjoying his pulled pork sandwich at Anna's >>BBQ Heaven. (BTW, Bikenight there, anyone?) >> > >> >I asked what a civilian call-in would result in. And he said that unless >>you the offended party was going to press charges that they'll do nothing. >> >>Okay, so the offended party (the motorcyclist who was pushed out of his >>lane) wants to press charges - what next? Will they actually go forward >>with traffic charges or is this limited to civil action where you have to >>show damages? >> >>Chris Norloff > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > From dc-cycles-request Fri Mar 2 22:21:46 2001 Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 19:21:45 -0800 (PST) From: Corbett B Subject: Re: Traffic Babe Goes to Daytona/ "Bike" Week To: DC Cycles Yeah, on one of my last trips to Daytona I saw a biker wearing a T-Shirt that said "I survived TRAILER Week 2000." Always cracks me up but just about sums it up. -Corbett --- "William J. Huson" wrote: > > Well, she could be like a priest/marriage counselor > - she *has* a Harley > but never actually rides it. > > Mayor of Daytona Beach: "Where the did all these > f*****g trailers come > from?" > > Bill > ===== -Corbett '99 BMW K1200RS AMA Member BMW Motorcycle Owners Association Member __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Sat Mar 3 09:36:48 2001 From: "deus exMachina" To: Subject: RE: DC Ride Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 09:36:59 -0500 Good morning.. I was posting info about a DC Ride not that long ago.. I've run into a few complications and that's why I haven't followed up on it. I went to fire up my bike a few weeks ago and found the battery was dead. I wasn't able to get a jump on, so I proceeded to remove what was needed to get at it. First was to get the seat off.. but in order to do that I needed to get into the small cargo case built into the K1. In the small cargo case is a latch that removes the seat.. However, I had my apartment broken into and these young fellows decided that a set of keys for a K1 would be a nice addition to their collection of stolen property. I had the key cut for the ignition, but it's a different lock for the cargo box. I could pay a lock smith to cut a key for the cargo box, but since there is actually three cargo boxes on the bike for which I have no keys, and yes all the locks are different, this was going to cost about 200$ for all of them. It's surprising how many locksmiths refuse to work on BMW locks. So my other option was to order new locks for the three cargo boxes. This was going to cost 140$ but at least I have matching keys. I am now in the process of waiting for 3 weeks until they arrive. I'll drill out the locks and replace them, gain access to my seat latch, in order to charge my battery, so I can get this DC-Ride on the road.. You don't realize how much you love to ride until you get yourself into a position where you can't just hop on and go. Sorry for the delay.. > -----Original Message----- > From: Shawn Brand [mailto:sbrand@XXXXXX] > Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 7:43 PM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: STOLEN '99 Red CBRF4 > > > Unfortunately my intro message to the group is to report my bike > which was > stolen Wednesday (2/21) night or Thursday (2/22) morning. The punks got > into the supposedly secured parking garage of Skyline Towers in Falls > Church and cut the heavy padlocked chain which was fastened around my > rear-wheel (to a rail). I had a Kryptonite EV disc lock around the front > rotor. I removed the battery Wednesday morning to have a friend charge it. > > My motorcycle was a 1999 Red Honda CBR F4 with a D&D slip-on. It > has about > 6,300 miles with a Dunlop D207 on the front and a new Metzeler ME1 on the > rear. Virginia Tag, which most certainly has been removed, was 187741. > Small white yin/yang sticker between the seat and gas door on the tank. > > The garage has a security camera at the entrance, but nothing on > the exit. > Recovery isn't looking too promising. > > Take special care in securing your bikes!! > From dc-cycles-request Sat Mar 3 13:23:53 2001 Subject: '83 Honda CX650C for Sale To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "Tom Knapik" Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 13:23:38 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on D04NMS69/04/M/IBM(Release 5.0.6 |December 14, 2000) at 03/03/2001 01:23:41 PM Okay all, help me out. I just put a deposit on a new bike so I need to sell my faithful Honda. Anybody out there looking for a shaft dirve? It comes with windshield and hard bags. Runs well, etc, etc. I'm asking $1000 OBO. Regards, Tom Knapik Federal SAP Deployment Focal Federal CSO-CRM/Siebel E-mail: knapik@XXXXXX Phone: (301) 803-2417, tie-262-2417 From dc-cycles-request Sat Mar 3 16:50:41 2001 Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 16:50:32 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Tralier rental needed I was having some tint put on my truck today and the shop owner spotted my moto-related stickers. He is in need of a trailer for rent in mid June. Needs to haul three bikes to the beach. Anyone interested in renting their trailer for a week or know of a local rental service? Email me for the contact info. Thanks. MT ______________________________________ Mike Troutman mike@XXXXXX http://www.troutman.org/vfr From dc-cycles-request Sun Mar 4 10:31:25 2001 To: roach@XXXXXX Cc: celticracing@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 10:30:31 -0500 Subject: More on MARRC Cornerworking!!! X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 5-6,13-14,16-20,22-49,51,53,55 From: Tom Fitzpatrick Steve pointed out the difference between Roger Lyle's Tune and Test Days and the MARRC track day. One thing about the MARRC track day, the day that Bill Scott donates is not entirely "free". It is provided in exchange for corner worker services. The money from the event then goes to support the needs of the club, which in turn supports the motorcycle racing community. Also, cornerworkers earn a free membership after performing X amount of work, and get free admission, food, and Volunteer Incentive Program (V.I.P.) . These tokens of appreciation can't begin to repay the corner workers for the countless hours spent in selfless dedication to the sport, so we try to make it up with our undying gratitude. If you see someone wearing a MARRC coat, you know that person didn't buy it. That person EARNED it. So, please consider checking it out at the first *WERA* weekend at Summit Point, April 21st. Again, get all the details at http://www.marrc.org Thanks, Tom On Thu, 1 Mar 2001 00:17:28 -0500 Brian Roach writes: > > > Arg... the argument is not relavent to this list, and in all > honesty, I gave > up caring. I wish you all the best in MARRC Political life :) > > MARRC has it's own agenda as does any organization, and for the most > part > it's all good. They do a great job cornerworking at Summit Point, > and provide > racers with 4 track days. A deal for $20 to be sure - they got my > $20. > > If you want to be involved with roadracing but don't want to race - > come on > out and cornerwork! I think anyone interested in the sport would > really enjoy > it and we appreciate you being there to pick us up from time to > time! If you > choose to join MARRC and donate $20 to the cause, that's all good > too. > > - Roach > Tom Fitzpatrick CCS#80'6 (www.celticracing.com) Sponsors: *Fast Lane Cycles - fastlanecycles@XXXXXX (703)818-8890 (www.fastlanecycles.com) *Barnacle Bill's Racing Leathers - barnacle@XXXXXX (www.racingleather.com) *A.F.S. Contractor Inc.-Home Insurance Recovery Specialist (www.unitedwebuild.com/afs.html) *Janet Bell TAX Preparation, Accounting and Consulting (belljan@XXXXXX) From dc-cycles-request Sun Mar 4 10:32:41 2001 To: roach@XXXXXX Cc: celticracing@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 10:31:35 -0500 Subject: More on MARRC Cornerworking!!! X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 5-6,13-14,16-20,22-49,51,53,55 From: Tom Fitzpatrick Steve pointed out the difference between Roger Lyle's Tune and Test Days and the MARRC track day. One thing about the MARRC track day, the day that Bill Scott donates is not entirely "free". It is provided in exchange for corner worker services. The money from the event then goes to support the needs of the club, which in turn supports the motorcycle racing community. Also, cornerworkers earn a free membership after performing X amount of work, and get free admission, food, and Volunteer Incentive Program (V.I.P.) . These tokens of appreciation can't begin to repay the corner workers for the countless hours spent in selfless dedication to the sport, so we try to make it up with our undying gratitude. If you see someone wearing a MARRC coat, you know that person didn't buy it. That person EARNED it. So, please consider checking it out at the first *WERA* weekend at Summit Point, April 21st. Again, get all the details at http://www.marrc.org Thanks, Tom On Thu, 1 Mar 2001 00:17:28 -0500 Brian Roach writes: > > > Arg... the argument is not relavent to this list, and in all > honesty, I gave > up caring. I wish you all the best in MARRC Political life :) > > MARRC has it's own agenda as does any organization, and for the most > part > it's all good. They do a great job cornerworking at Summit Point, > and provide > racers with 4 track days. A deal for $20 to be sure - they got my > $20. > > If you want to be involved with roadracing but don't want to race - > come on > out and cornerwork! I think anyone interested in the sport would > really enjoy > it and we appreciate you being there to pick us up from time to > time! If you > choose to join MARRC and donate $20 to the cause, that's all good > too. > > - Roach > Tom Fitzpatrick CCS#80'6 (www.celticracing.com) Sponsors: *Fast Lane Cycles - fastlanecycles@XXXXXX (703)818-8890 (www.fastlanecycles.com) *Barnacle Bill's Racing Leathers - barnacle@XXXXXX (www.racingleather.com) *A.F.S. Contractor Inc.-Home Insurance Recovery Specialist (www.unitedwebuild.com/afs.html) *Janet Bell TAX Preparation, Accounting and Consulting (belljan@XXXXXX) From dc-cycles-request Sun Mar 4 13:16:29 2001 From: "Doug Allis" To: cnorloff@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: HOV nonsense continues.... Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 18:16:22 >From: "Chris Norloff" >Reply-To: >To: "Doug Allis" , > >Thanks for the details! Best wishes for a good outcome. I guess you're >out of the loop now, since the charge is criminal it's the state against >the Lexusian? > >best, >Chris Norloff > No, I'm not out of the loop. Whatever case is made against her is based on my testimony. So I got to show on the court date. If I don't, it would be very likely that all charges would be dropped. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From dc-cycles-request Sun Mar 4 14:23:39 2001 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'DCCycles'" Cc: "'jconli1@XXXXXX'" Subject: Magna V30 partz Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 14:23:26 -0500 Jeff in Baltimore needs: a chain, sprocket, and front handlebar for a Magna V30 before next weekend. Tell him or bug me (301) 530-3753 Carl (just here to hep) From dc-cycles-request Sun Mar 4 15:49:35 2001 From: "Sanath S" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: R1 or a used Ducati 996? Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 15:49:27 -0500 I have recently sold my current bike - YZF600F and am in the market for a new ride. I was all set to buy an R1 when I started to find ads for used 996 which where a little more than a new R1. Now I know that the R1 is a much better bike than the 996 in terms of handling, comfort, maintenance etc. But then the Ducati has that certain something that make is special. Seeing as how I am not interested in becoming a parking lot queen which is a more suitable bike? I like "spirited" ride, would like something that is not so "common", no disrespect to any R1 owners. Does that certain J'ne sais pas of the Ducati outweigh its the poor handling, riding discomfort, expensive maintainance? Would like to hear opinions. Thanks Sanath _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From dc-cycles-request Sun Mar 4 19:47:29 2001 Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 16:47:24 -0800 (PST) From: Todd Withrow Subject: Re: HOV nonsense continues.... To: Doug Allis , cnorloff@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX > No, I'm not out of the loop. Whatever case is made > against her is based on > my testimony. So I got to show on the court date. > If I don't, it would be > very likely that all charges would be dropped. It would be a definite dropped case if you don't show. Your statement is THE evidence. If you don't show up, the case will be dropped and you will have wasted many peoples time. Don't get upset if you show up and she doesn't, it happens to cops all the time. In that case you win easy. Todd ===== AIM: Inf DS http://www.geocities.com/mtwithrow ----------------------------------------------------------- Used to be that we "worldproofed" our children. Now society wants to childproof the world. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Sun Mar 4 20:43:56 2001 Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 20:44:57 -0800 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Stephen Harris Subject: Team Charm @ Daytona Read the full race report at; http://www.his.com/~harris/news.htm If your road kill on the information super-highway I'll be happy to e-mail you the text. Stephen Harris Need a motorcycle related phone number or address? Try http://www.his.com/harris/shops.htm From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 5 07:25:04 2001 Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 04:25:02 -0800 (PST) From: "Louis F. Caplan" Subject: Re: HOV nonsense continues.... BBQ To: Doug Allis , dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Hey, where's Anna'? That sounds like a much more tasty subject.... > > Doug Allis > > >From: "Matthew Patton" > > >While chowing down on some otherworldly good ribs last night I chatted up > >a State Trooper who was also enjoying his pulled pork sandwich at Anna's > >BBQ Heaven. (BTW, Bikenight there, anyone?) Annette's BBQ Heaven... something I recommened on the other DC-Cycles list during a BBQ debate. Located on S. Van Dorn Street, in the shopping plaza with Wendy's, Safeway, CVS, and other misc. shops. 2 blocks south of Duke Street / Landmark Mall. Since I don't eat pork, it was nice to find a BBQ place that has Beef Ribs. Yum! As for the Bikenight thing... seems like it would be an awfully small place to have it. Louis __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 5 09:11:47 2001 Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 06:11:45 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: R1 or a used Ducati 996? To: Sanath S , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Sanath S wrote: > I have recently sold my current bike - YZF600F and am in > the market for a new ride. I was all set to buy an R1 when > I started to find ads for used 996 which where a little > more than a new R1. Now I know that the R1 is a much > better bike than the 996 in terms of handling, comfort, > maintenance etc. and how do you know this? the 996 whips the r1 in the handling department, especially after the steering head angle is adjusted. which year are you looking at? it seems the base 996 for '01 has ohlins front and rear standard. the r1 doesn't stand a chance against that setup. > But then the Ducati has that certain > something that make is special. Seeing as how I am not > interested in becoming a parking lot queen which is a more > suitable bike? I like "spirited" ride, would like > something that is not so "common", no disrespect to any R1 > owners. Does that certain J'ne sais pas of the Ducati > outweigh its the poor handling, riding discomfort, > expensive maintainance? unless you like pain, stick with the yamaha. i love the riding position of the 748/996 myself. aggressive is good for a sportbike. if you like to get it leaned WAY over, you'll have to stiffen up the suspension on the r1 a LOT or you will be dragging more than pegs. please let us know where you came up with the knowlege of the duc's poor handling? it does turn a little slow out of the crate, but there is a quick fix in the the steering head angle adjustment. i would also have to add that yamaha's quality control is higher.... ducs are improving in that department, but still not on the same level. lastly, my maintenance expenses have been only slightly higher on my 996 than on my former 900rr. this is due to the more frequent valve inspection intervals. -- tg __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 5 09:27:47 2001 Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 09:20:10 -0500 From: Robert Verde Subject: Filtering comment plus Frame question To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Saturday morning I was out running errands to Alexandria (taxes are done! Yippee!) and on the way back to Manassas I took 66. Just after getting on 66 near Geo. Washington Pkwy, I was overtaken in a crush of traffic by a copper-colored Hayabusa, lane-splitting/filtering pretty aggressively. Traffic was moving at a geologic pace, so I certainly empathized. Anyone on the list? I didn't get a look at the license plate, but I did move over in my lane when he went by. Two-piece leathers, helmet matched bike. On another note, I was changing the oil and flushing the radiator(s) on the Interceptor later that afternoon, and I was idly poking at a small bit of discoloration on the frame, back where the seat subframe meets the main engine cradle. Imagine my dismay when I poked a hole into my frame, through the paint... The frame is apparently rusting on the inside, under the paint, maybe coused by weep holes for condensation. Anyone have a spare frame for a Honda VF750F Interceptor in reasonable shape lying around? Scarce as hen's teeth, you say? I will be trying the local salvage yards, but any leads would be appreciated. Failing that, I am open to recommendations for good welding shops (it's a steel frame). Robert Verde From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 5 10:12:29 2001 Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 09:27:12 -0500 From: "Steven C. Di Pietro" To: "D.C.Cycles-L" Subject: [Fwd: **GREAT BIKE RAMP FOR SALE**] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------CB2DE8853FFD55AB591D08D7 --------------CB2DE8853FFD55AB591D08D7 From: LilBkrBabe@XXXXXX Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 07:30:27 EST Subject: **GREAT BIKE RAMP FOR SALE** To: LeeOwen@XXXXXX, DBASS753@XXXXXX, KIKSTARTR@XXXXXX, NICPAS1@XXXXXX, Svejk@XXXXXX, winford.sutt@XXXXXX, gvhannah@XXXXXX, LWELCH@XXXXXX, FXSB1340@XXXXXX, Vva451ghm@XXXXXX, DDDHDRider@XXXXXX, HD1996@XXXXXX, Sailorkel@XXXXXX, Misssstake@XXXXXX, DickB95410@XXXXXX, Wicked816@XXXXXX, LJFRKOKOMO@XXXXXX, FREEDM@XXXXXX, LOWRFRED@XXXXXX, LouNick@XXXXXX, Biker536@XXXXXX, HOGV@XXXXXX, JoanReMax@XXXXXX, Sammycook@XXXXXX, WCFATBOY@XXXXXX, candccycle@XXXXXX, CLAINCE@XXXXXX, Ocikat2@XXXXXX, bkrbill13x@XXXXXX, khafre@XXXXXX, Crgcrisis@XXXXXX, JFA23@XXXXXX, FabThad@XXXXXX, pademeo@XXXXXX, c.horse@XXXXXX, JOHNHDLE@XXXXXX, soujourn@XXXXXX, tech.cons.serv@XXXXXX, stevied@XXXXXX, HarleyzMyn@XXXXXX, Cindyinmaryland@XXXXXX, PulseR700@XXXXXX, Cherokeekid1021@XXXXXX, AlachuaArt@XXXXXX, RGavoni@XXXXXX, CharlieHJr@XXXXXX X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 --part1_32.11689696.27d38f63_boundary Now this is a very sad note to write. JC, Jim, whom I've been riding with fo= r=20 3 seasons, would have been 4 this year, is moving to CA. JC, you will be=20 missed by so many people. Please have a safe trip and be sure your new home=20 is big enough to house LOTS of visitors.=20 love and blessings, babe A> To:=A0 =A0 LilBkrBabe@XXXXXX =20 Hey Babe, I am getting ready to move to CA in about three weeks. I have=A0a really nic= e=20 set of ramps for sale.=A0 They are 12" wide, 7-8 foot long (I'd have to dbl=20 check the length), folding metal ramps.=A0 They are curved to minimize=20 bottoming out of the bike and have split, raised dimples for traction.=A0 I=20 have only used them a few times and they worked great (you know how long the= =20 wheel-base is on my bike and how high the bed of my truck is).=A0 I stopped=20 using them after I got a trailer.=A0 The short bed of my truck just wasn't l= ong=20 enough for the bike.=A0 I am asking $100 or best for both ramps.=A0 People c= an=20 email me at nobr8nr@XXXXXX= , or phone me at 301-362-0170.=A0 I'll be in=20 and out of town prior to the move, so they can leave a message and I'll get=20 back to them.=A0 Thanks Babe.=A0 I'll miss riding with your group.=A0 Hope a= ll goes=20 well for the April kick-off. =A0JC --part1_32.11689696.27d38f63_boundary Now this is a very sad= note to write. JC, Jim, whom I've been riding with for=20
3 seasons, would have been 4 this year, is moving to CA. JC, you will be= =20
missed by so many people. Please have a safe trip and be sure your new h= ome=20
is big enough to house LOTS of visitors.=20

love and blessings, babe


Reply-to: nobr8nr@XXXXXX= om
To:=A0 =A0 LilBkrBabe@XXXXXX
=20
Hey Babe,
I am getting ready to move to CA in about three weeks. I hav= e=A0a really nice=20
set of ramps for sale.=A0 They are 12" wide, 7-8 foot long (I'd have to=20= dbl=20
check the length), folding metal ramps.=A0 They are curved to minimize=20
bottoming out of the bike and have split, raised dimples for traction.= =A0 I=20
have only used them a few times and they worked great (you know how long= the=20
wheel-base is on my bike and how high the bed of my truck is).=A0 I stop= ped=20
using them after I got a trailer.=A0 The short bed of my truck just wasn= 't long=20
enough for the bike.=A0 I am asking $100 or best for both ramps.=A0 Peop= le can=20
email me at nobr8nr@cablespeed= .com, or phone me at 301-362-0170.=A0 I'll be in=20
and out of town prior to the move, so they can leave a message and I'll=20= get=20
back to them.=A0 Thanks Babe.=A0 I'll miss riding with your group.=A0 Ho= pe all goes=20
well for the April kick-off.
=A0JC

--part1_32.11689696.27d38f63_boundary-- --------------CB2DE8853FFD55AB591D08D7-- From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 5 12:28:10 2001 From: "Matthew Patton" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 12:28:07 -0500 Subject: anyone looking for a trailer? I hope I'm not double-posting but I saw this on 2wf.com's classifieds. Rick US / va / Alexandria Day 703-922-8226 icmikjon@XXXXXX Other 6x12 enclosed trailer For Sale: 6x12 enclosed trailer: This is a 2000 model trailer which was bought new last summer. It has the 6" extended height, side door, heavy duty rear ramp door,front stone guard, roof vent. It has the heavy duty torsion bar rear axle, and bigger tires, The floor is 3/4" plywood and the walls are 1/2" plywood, Has AC,and DC lighting, Craftsman work bench, removable Wheel chocks, D-Rings installed. It is set up for 2 bikes. It is white and in great shape. Was $ 3200 new, plus all of the add ons. $2500 FIRM ! No Offers, Located in Northern VA, Can Email pics if needed, -- "Civilization can only begin when sex is restrained." - Sigmond Freud _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://mail.theglobe.com Powered by Outblaze From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 5 12:34:44 2001 From: GOINGRIDING@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 12:34:16 EST Subject: Re: Moving sale at Cycle Sport Springfield To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 3/1/2001 10:28:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, lmeyer@XXXXXX writes: << Service team - Ed and Bob went to Powerride formerly Coleman right? Any chance they'll have influence and improve things? If not, service just got real inconvenient for this non-wrencher. >> Thats odd. A rumor I heard (and even the individual who told me said it was just a rumor) was that the new "Powerride" management doesnt hire white people and was one of the reasons they lost those franchises after numerous complaints of discrimination. Again, this is just a rumor I heard with no known basis in fact to my knowledge. I guess if they hired the Cycle Sport guys away that would destroy that rumor.... From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 5 13:08:44 2001 Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 13:08:36 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Sean Jordan Subject: Re: anyone looking for a trailer? > > >Other 6x12 enclosed trailer For Sale: 6x12 enclosed trailer: This is >a 2000 model trailer which was bought new last summer. It has the 6" >extended height, side door, heavy duty rear ramp door,front stone >guard, roof vent. It has the heavy duty torsion bar rear axle, and >bigger tires, The floor is 3/4" plywood and the walls are 1/2" >plywood, Has AC,and DC lighting, Craftsman work bench, removable >Wheel chocks, D-Rings installed. It is set up for 2 bikes. It is >white and in great shape. Was $ 3200 new, plus all of the add ons. >$2500 FIRM ! No Offers, Located in Northern VA, Can Email pics if >needed, This trailer was also posted on the WERA BBS and has been sold....it did sound like a pretty kickass trailer, though. -- "For man, maximum excitement is the confrontation of death and the skillful defiance of it." -Ernest Becker (1924-1974) Sean Jordan '93 Honda CBR1000F (Street) '90 Yamaha FZR400 (Race) WERA Novice #230 MARRC member #3038 From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 5 15:40:18 2001 X-Apparently-From: From: "Ricardo Pontes" To: Cc: "dccycles" Subject: Re: RE: DC lane sharing Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 15:43:47 -0500 kirk, what exactly will the countershaft sprocket do? How will it help? Are there any other things that can be done to my ke100 to increase its performance? If you can find out the size let me know. It would be great if my ke had enough juice to move uphills without losing speed, it usually slows down to 30-35 mph on the commute home on the hilly sections. I have an uncle in portugal that has a 50cc bike, a sachs. I believe its 20+ years old. Over 45k miles on it. It is much faster than my bike with a top speed of 75 mph. Why on earth does my 100cc ke not have the balls for that? I also heard that ke100s life might end at 15-25k. I have almost 5k on it. Its a great little bike and deserves to live longer than 60k, prefrerably in a vacation resort with a beach. But for lane splitting and city riding. It really shines. Kawasaki should have added a rack on it thou. I have a hard time carrying groceries home. i have seen a ke at clinton cycles with a weird cutoff exaust. Do you think that will improve its performance? Ricardo >On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, >Ricardo Pontes wrote: >> I have a ke100 and it has a >hard time with 50 uphill. > >You'll get better results if >you change the >countershaft sprocket. I >think >I've got a 13 while stock is 17 >(I'm not positive on these >sizes but can look if you're >curious). You won't lose any >top speed either. The thing is >geared for some mystery >purpose. The bike lacks the >horsepower to ever reach >the theoretical top speed of >the stock gearing (which is >probably like 90 but I've >never checked it). > >Kirk >2000 Kawasaki KLX300 >(http://planetklx.dirtrider.n >et) >1998 Honda VTR1000 >(http://members.nova.org/ >~kirk/Kirk1.jpg) DCOffroad >- the Wash, DC area offroad >e-mail list: >http://groups.yahoo.com/gr >oup/dcoffroad/ _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 5 15:40:17 2001 X-Apparently-From: From: "Ricardo Pontes" To: Cc: "dccycles" Subject: Re: RE: DC lane sharing Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 15:43:45 -0500 erik, how do you like the klr650? I was considering une before getting my triumph tiger. what year is it? How many miles do you have? Is it as reliable as they say it is? It would be great to have a 1 cylinder bike, that is simple enough for someone to work on it themselves. Did you consider any other bike? I have a ke100, i wish i had saved a while longer and gotten a klr650. How is it in the twisties and off road? Ricardo 98 triumph tiger 99 kawasaki ke100 >have pedals (I think the spirit >of the rule is so only bicycles >can do it). Anybody know >where I can find after >market pedals for my KLR >650? > >Erik > >-----Original Message----- >From: Kirk Roy >[mailto:kirk@XXXXXX] >Sent: Wednesday, February >28, 2001 9:50 AM To: List-dc >cycles >Subject: RE: DC lane sharing > > >The answer to the lane >sharing question is easy. >Simply mount some pedals >and a 50cc sticker to your >bike and you've got a >moped. It's legal for them to >lane split, right? > >What's the likelihood of >getting a moped up over >10hp? I've considered them >as a commuting option... :) If I >could get a moped that'd >carry me >50mph up hill I'd do it. When I >was bicycling to work it took >me 20 extra minutes to get >in, compared to the car. >That's 65 minutes as >compared to >45. A moped would have the >bicycle's traffic law >advantages but some speed >as well. > >Kirk >2000 Kawasaki KLX300 >(http://planetklx.dirtrider.n >et) >1998 Honda VTR1000 >(http://members.nova.org/ >~kirk/Kirk1.jpg) DCOffroad >- the Wash, DC area offroad >e-mail list: >http://groups.yahoo.com/gr >oup/dcoffroad/ _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request Mon Mar 5 15:56:06 2001 From: eschelzig@XXXXXX To: ricardopontes@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: RE: DC lane sharing Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 15:53:50 -0500 Many of the points I'd like to make about the KLR650 are moot, as I've only had the bike since early November (bought it new), and the winter weather has left for little else than commuting. I just went over 1000 miles on last week, and it's been reliable thus far, for what it's worth. The nice thing about the bike is its 300 mile range (6+ gallon tank), its seat height -- I'm 6"0', and fit on it comfortably. I like center stands, so I had to shell out of that one, and a new seat is going to be in the not-all-too-near future, hopefully. I've ridden mostly crappy old bikes in the past, so the low-end power on this one is refreshing, thought top comfortable riding speed seems to be just under triple digits. That's fine for my riding style (city