From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 1 08:07:14 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 08:07:01 EDT Subject: Re: defective tire? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 5/31/2004 11:44:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, corey@XXXXXX writes: > he can't get them to hold a > bead. I would like more information please. What exactly does he mean will not hold a bead? Does he mean the tire will not stay seated once the bead has "popped" into place? That it will not seat at all? That it goes past the seat? The only explanations I can think of off hand is 1: wrong size tire. 2: broken cords. 3: bad, broken, or not tubeless type wheel. We all know how hard it is to get a tire off the seat once it is on the it and breaking the (wire) cords that hold the tire on the seat is damn hard to do. If the problem is getting the tire to seat at all, then it is one I have seen before (8 yrs. mechanic) and that can be a pain in the ass, BUT it can be overcome with a little skill. (This is usually caused by removing the cardboard inserts that manufacturers put into tires to keep the bead from collapsing, and then stacking the tires, squashing the sides together. The company you ordered from is going to want these answers before they give any kind of refund anyhow I would think. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC 1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European 1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles 1976, Honda CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 1 09:04:18 2004 Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 09:03:32 -0400 (EDT) From: dan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: defective tire? On Tue, 1 Jun 2004 PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > In a message dated 5/31/2004 11:44:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > corey@XXXXXX writes: > > > he can't get them to hold a > > bead. > > I would like more information please. > What exactly does he mean will not hold a bead? Does he mean the tire will While I'm no "expert" I have mounted quite a few tires. Maybe he means it won't hold air before it seats on the bead? I've had that happen, you just have to wiggle the tire around and get it to almost seat on the bead. I can't see it sliping off the bead itself once it pops on. At least not without visible damange to the tire. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 1 10:30:57 2004 Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 10:33:26 -0400 To: "Michael Jordan" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: Rolling Thunder - sportbike friendly? At 08:33 AM 5/29/04 -0400, Michael Jordan wrote: >> Exerpt at the end taken from online interview. Fellow riders, >> please give some honest feedback as to whether these are true >> statements in your experiences. > >There do tend to be a few Harleys present... > >But I've seen (almost) everything there. Yep, there were lots of bikes there that weren't Harleys...even some that aren't any known manufacturer (home made...including some pretty amazing trikes). I was parked next to a Honda (V Star?) with a couple of Shadows, a BMW and a couple of Goldwings nearby. The rest of the nearest bikes were Harleys, except for one of the bikes in the MC-HOGs group that was a Suzuki (ridden by the SO of one of the sales folks from Battleys ;-). If you wandered around a bit you could probably find one of almost everything. I didn't see a lot of race-style sport bikes though, but there probably were some. Mostly cruisers and tour bikes. >The only recurring problem area is >the line for the Porta-Johns ;-). I haven't experienced any "attitudes" >there. Agreed, and me neither. There were about 75+ portajohns, with 15-30 people in line for each pretty much continuously. I found the lines shorter near a couple of generators, so I stuck in my ear plugs and headed that way. Took about 15 minutes to get through the line. Everyone was very friendly, lots of chatting and politeness, and no problems at all. Folks were wearing everything from leather vests with Vietnam unit designations to JR mesh jackets to T-shirts with various things on them to halter tops. Didn't see, or hear of, anybody having a problem with anyone else for any reason. >Go - it's a great experience. I agree with all of that. It was my first time for this event, and it was well worth going. Just seeing the looks on the faces of the veterans in the crowd along the route would have made it worthwhile... -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 1 10:57:15 2004 From: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" To: "'Mike Bartman'" , Michael Jordan , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Rolling Thunder - sportbike friendly? Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 10:56:45 -0400 I was there and I ride a GSXR600 our group had r6, Duc 748, two Kawasaki 250 another Gsxr600, and a Honda shadow. What a good time. Yep your right I saw every kind of bike. I even saw a Riddly (sp?) from NY, tiny little bike. -----Original Message----- From: Mike Bartman [mailto:omni@XXXXXX] Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 10:33 AM To: Michael Jordan; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Rolling Thunder - sportbike friendly? At 08:33 AM 5/29/04 -0400, Michael Jordan wrote: >> Exerpt at the end taken from online interview. Fellow riders, >> please give some honest feedback as to whether these are true >> statements in your experiences. > >There do tend to be a few Harleys present... > >But I've seen (almost) everything there. Yep, there were lots of bikes there that weren't Harleys...even some that aren't any known manufacturer (home made...including some pretty amazing trikes). I was parked next to a Honda (V Star?) with a couple of Shadows, a BMW and a couple of Goldwings nearby. The rest of the nearest bikes were Harleys, except for one of the bikes in the MC-HOGs group that was a Suzuki (ridden by the SO of one of the sales folks from Battleys ;-). If you wandered around a bit you could probably find one of almost everything. I didn't see a lot of race-style sport bikes though, but there probably were some. Mostly cruisers and tour bikes. >The only recurring problem area is >the line for the Porta-Johns ;-). I haven't experienced any "attitudes" >there. Agreed, and me neither. There were about 75+ portajohns, with 15-30 people in line for each pretty much continuously. I found the lines shorter near a couple of generators, so I stuck in my ear plugs and headed that way. Took about 15 minutes to get through the line. Everyone was very friendly, lots of chatting and politeness, and no problems at all. Folks were wearing everything from leather vests with Vietnam unit designations to JR mesh jackets to T-shirts with various things on them to halter tops. Didn't see, or hear of, anybody having a problem with anyone else for any reason. >Go - it's a great experience. I agree with all of that. It was my first time for this event, and it was well worth going. Just seeing the looks on the faces of the veterans in the crowd along the route would have made it worthwhile... -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 1 11:11:41 2004 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: "Paul Wilson" , "Rob Sharp" , "Troutman" , Subject: Re: Re: Rt. 211 "Racetrack" Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 11:11:33 -0400 > From: "Paul Wilson" > > It's harassment, pure and simple, in an attempt to "do something" and to get > the squids to go play somewhere else. You're not solving the problem, > you're merely moving it on down the road to someone else's beat. I don't like it either, but in fairness to the *authorities*, one segment of the sportbike community has given us all a black eye out their. I've been riding up / down the mountain at maybe 65 and been passed by riders going at least 20 - 30 mph faster. And those same riders do crash with distressing regularity. That kind of riding on the public roads gives us a bad rep every bit as much as the "loud pipes save lives" crowd. And just like the "loud pipers" got bike bans imposed in many locations, maturity-impaired sportbikers are going to produce similar results. Take it to the track, folks. Bob Meyer Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" '92 ST1100, "red STag" '02 919, "still looking for a name" A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers.... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 1 11:44:32 2004 From: Jason Picton To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Re: Rt. 211 "Racetrack" Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 11:44:05 -0400 I am been lurking on the this thread for a little while and have a few thoughts... 1. What else do you expect the cops/govt to do.... Personally, I don't like the lower speed limit - but the only other way to reduce the speed other than lower limits is to post a popo unit constantly on weekends.. I would rather it be a lower limit... I am sure bikes are their main target - but if we (royal we - pertaining to all bikers) didn't wreck and make a nusiance of ourselves - it wouldn't be an issue.. Sure their are different types of riders, but I am sure the locals and the cops don't know the difference and probably don't care... 2. Yeah - sure the squid community - will try and move to another location like 33... But 33 is more rural and not as heavily traveled - sure it's a thru road, but there are fewer houses nearby... So, isn't it better that the locals won't complain as much if local hot spot is moved off the beaten path... Places like deals gap have just as many accidents - but it seems to be more acceptable...... Also, 33 is further out than 211 - so I would imagine less riders will go that far out... 3. I have done some traveling on two wheels - and I have always seen the squids closer to major metropolitian areas... I don't see as many out in the countryside (ok, ohio is the exception).. So in't it better to push out toward the boonies ... If it takes less time to go to places like summit point cause it's closer and easier than treking out to the country - isn't that better since it will be a track where things are more contained and organized? Just some thoughts.... jason -----Original Message----- From: Bob Meyer [mailto:rmeyer9@XXXXXX] Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 11:12 AM To: Paul Wilson; Rob Sharp; Troutman; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Rt. 211 "Racetrack" > From: "Paul Wilson" > > It's harassment, pure and simple, in an attempt to "do something" and to get > the squids to go play somewhere else. You're not solving the problem, > you're merely moving it on down the road to someone else's beat. I don't like it either, but in fairness to the *authorities*, one segment of the sportbike community has given us all a black eye out their. I've been riding up / down the mountain at maybe 65 and been passed by riders going at least 20 - 30 mph faster. And those same riders do crash with distressing regularity. That kind of riding on the public roads gives us a bad rep every bit as much as the "loud pipes save lives" crowd. And just like the "loud pipers" got bike bans imposed in many locations, maturity-impaired sportbikers are going to produce similar results. Take it to the track, folks. Bob Meyer Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" '92 ST1100, "red STag" '02 919, "still looking for a name" A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers.... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 1 12:03:37 2004 Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 12:02:36 -0400 (EDT) From: dan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Re: Rt. 211 "Racetrack" On Tue, 1 Jun 2004, Jason Picton wrote: > toward the boonies ... If it takes less time to go to places like summit > point cause it's closer and easier than treking out to the country - isn't > that better since it will be a track where things are more contained and > organized? > Well, I'm sure most would prefer to ride Summit instead, however, at ~$150 a day plus waiting till the track day, etc, it makes it less attractive to the "I want it now" crowd. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 1 12:22:54 2004 From: Jason Picton To: "'dan'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Re: Rt. 211 "Racetrack" Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 12:22:29 -0400 hmmm $150 for track day..... hmmm how much does it cost for a ticket? and/or how much to replace bike parts such as fairing... etc... Jason -----Original Message----- From: dan [mailto:dan@XXXXXX] Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 12:03 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Re: Rt. 211 "Racetrack" On Tue, 1 Jun 2004, Jason Picton wrote: > toward the boonies ... If it takes less time to go to places like summit > point cause it's closer and easier than treking out to the country - isn't > that better since it will be a track where things are more contained and > organized? > Well, I'm sure most would prefer to ride Summit instead, however, at ~$150 a day plus waiting till the track day, etc, it makes it less attractive to the "I want it now" crowd. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 1 12:26:31 2004 Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 12:26:15 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: Jason Picton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Re: Rt. 211 "Racetrack" -----Original Message----- From: Jason Picton Sent: Jun 1, 2004 11:44 AM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Re: Rt. 211 "Racetrack" I am been lurking on the this thread for a little while and have a few thoughts... 1. What else do you expect the cops/govt to do.... --------------- That is *precisely* the problem, I don't have very high expectations when it comes to gubmint action. There is a big difference between doing "something" and doing the right thing or the effective thing. (See also Airline Security). Government is doing the "normal" reactive, ineffective thing. Case in point: kid gets killed inside a house, due to stray bullet. DC cops do a full court press, put the squeeze on a few snitches, and mirabile dictu, collar a suspect in the killing. A month goes by, it blows over, the press, the do-gooders and pundits lose interest, and things return to normal, to wit: young male criminals roaming around, armed. If one has sharp eyes, one might discover, buried somewhere in the Metro section, that the case has gone to trial some day. Is the neighborhood any safer? A moto-related example: remember that laughable publicity stunt called "Operation Road Rocket" in Maryland? Are there fewer "road rocket" incidents in MD now? Right. Take a trip down 50 or 301 any warm summer night and lemme know what you find. I guess I'm trying to say it's the culture in both cases. Unless you change the culture, all the law enforcement in the world isn't going to be effective. And, even worse, the rest of us get to enjoy being caught up in this anti-moto dragnet in the meantime, until such time that the police lose interest, as they always do. I just wish the "authorities" would expend the same energy in the service of rider training, where demand vastly outstrips capacity in our area. Let's try to instill a lifetime of good riding habits, and not just get people to behave only if Officer Friendly is in their mirrors. Lots of things can be done there, for not much money, but it's not flashy and visible to the general public. We could start by not making newbie riders wait four months to take the rider course, esp. in the spring when everyone has the jones to ride. There are always going to be idiots out there on two wheels, but let's make more of an effort to reach out and mentor them. Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 1 12:34:03 2004 Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 12:33:00 -0400 (EDT) From: dan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Re: Rt. 211 "Racetrack" On Tue, 1 Jun 2004, Jason Picton wrote: > hmmm $150 for track day..... hmmm how much does it cost for a ticket? and/or > how much to replace bike parts such as fairing... etc... > C'mon, do you reall think that most people think they will get caught? And as far as parts, mountain or track, its the same. Plenty people wad them either place. Rider safety is probably the best selling point. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 1 12:37:58 2004 Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 12:37:14 -0400 (EDT) From: dan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: local chroming? I need to get a tail pipe re-chromed, guess I'm running a bit lean and managed to yellow it up a bit. New part $113. I'm thinking re-chroming it might be the cheaper route. Any recommendations? Dan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 1 13:25:31 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 13:25:17 EDT Subject: Re: defective tire? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/1/2004 9:04:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time, dan@XXXXXX writes: > Maybe he means it > won't hold air before it seats on the bead? That is why I said... >> If the problem is getting the tire to seat at all, then... And explained the usual cause. I suppose I could have been more clear. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC 1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European 1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles 1976, Honda CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 1 13:31:13 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 13:31:01 EDT Subject: Re: Rt. 211 "Racetrack" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/1/2004 11:11:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time, rmeyer9@XXXXXX writes: > Take it to the track, folks. And get their asses whipped? Most of the ones I have seen could not keep up with a skilled rider on a Moped at a race track. I have said it before. I have great respect for those who race on the track. None at all for those who race on the street. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC 1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European 1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles 1976, Honda CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 1 13:43:59 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 13:43:49 EDT Subject: Re: Rt. 211 "Racetrack" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/1/2004 12:26:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, viffermaniac@XXXXXX writes: > I just wish the "authorities" would expend the same energy in the service of > rider training, where demand vastly outstrips capacity in our area. Damn straight! > There are always going to be idiots out there on two wheels, Which brings up "Johns Equation of Idiots on Motorcycles" Start with an _I_diot on a _M_otorcycle or I/M Subtract (outlaw) the _M_otorcycle. You are left with _I_. Do you think _I_ is going to walk? Take the subway? Hell no. _I_ is going to get the badest, fastest car he can find and ride it just like he rode his bike. Are you safer? Is your family safer? Do you really want an _I_diot riding 2_tons_ of deadly weapon? That argument usually gives pause to the "outlaw sportbike/motorcycle crowd." John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC 1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European 1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles 1976, Honda CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 1 13:54:33 2004 From: "Jefferson Parke" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: motorcycle trailer Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 13:54:33 -0400 Does anyone have a motorcycle trailer that I could borrow or rent from this Friday evening to Saturday evening? I would be towing behind an Explorer down to Charlotte NC and then back up with my nused 1990 VFR. Thanks, Jeff _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar )B– get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 1 14:12:55 2004 X-SpaceNet-Authentification: SMTP AUTH verified Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 14:13:00 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Chris Chubb Subject: Parking near Union Station? Can anyone direct me to MC parking during weekdays near union station? I have a new client over there and would like to ride in when I get a chance. Chris From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 1 14:16:35 2004 X-OB-Received: from unknown (205.158.62.49) by wfilter.us4.outblaze.com; 1 Jun 2004 18:15:58 -0000 From: "David Blumgart" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 13:16:24 -0500 Subject: Parking near Union station There is four hour MC parking at G St. & North Capitol, next to the old GPO building -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 1 14:43:52 2004 Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 11:43:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Adam Reinhardt Subject: Re: motorcycle trailer To: Jefferson Parke , dc-cycles@XXXXXX If no one on the list comes through, U-haul rents single bike trailers for around $10-15 per day. Might be worth calling around to couple spots to see if they have one. Adam --- Jefferson Parke wrote: > Does anyone have a motorcycle trailer that I could > borrow or rent from this > Friday evening to Saturday evening? I would be > towing behind an Explorer > down to Charlotte NC and then back up with my nused > 1990 VFR. > > Thanks, > Jeff > > _________________________________________________________________ > FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar )B– get > it now! > http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 1 14:46:40 2004 Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 14:49:04 -0400 To: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" , Michael Jordan , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: Rolling Thunder - sportbike friendly? At 10:56 AM 6/1/04 -0400, Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS) wrote: >I was there and I ride a GSXR600 our group had r6, Duc 748, two Kawasaki 250 >another Gsxr600, and a Honda shadow. What a good time. Yep your right I saw >every kind of bike. I even saw a Riddly (sp?) from NY, tiny little bike. At Battley's, where we formed up for the ride down, there was a guy on a Cushman scooter parked in front of me. Had his grandson with him. However, when I got back after the pre-ride speech, he was gone. Apparently someone had mentioned to him that the ride would include I-270, the Beltway and G.W. Parkway...and I guess his scooter couldn't handle the speeds. Too bad, his heart was in the right place... -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 1 15:12:15 2004 From: To: Adam Reinhardt , Jefferson Parke , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: motorcycle trailer Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 15:12:08 -0400 Prob is that U-Haul won't rent to anyone who's using an Explorer. Atleast for the enclosed ones. I don't know if it also applies to open trailers. -aki > > From: Adam Reinhardt > Date: 2004/06/01 Tue PM 02:43:37 EDT > To: Jefferson Parke , dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: motorcycle trailer > > If no one on the list comes through, U-haul rents > single bike trailers for around $10-15 per day. Might > be worth calling around to couple spots to see if they > have one. > > > Adam > > > --- Jefferson Parke > wrote: > > Does anyone have a motorcycle trailer that I could > > borrow or rent from this > > Friday evening to Saturday evening? I would be > > towing behind an Explorer > > down to Charlotte NC and then back up with my nused > > 1990 VFR. > > > > Thanks, > > Jeff > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar )B– get > > it now! > > > http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. > http://messenger.yahoo.com/ > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 1 15:15:25 2004 From: To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: RE: Rolling Thunder - sportbike friendly? Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 15:15:18 -0400 > > From: Mike Bartman > Date: 2004/06/01 Tue PM 02:49:04 EDT > To: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" , > Michael Jordan , dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: RE: Rolling Thunder - sportbike friendly? > > At 10:56 AM 6/1/04 -0400, Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS) wrote: > >I was there and I ride a GSXR600 our group had r6, Duc 748, two Kawasaki 250 > >another Gsxr600, and a Honda shadow. What a good time. Yep your right I saw > >every kind of bike. I even saw a Riddly (sp?) from NY, tiny little bike. > > At Battley's, where we formed up for the ride down, there was a guy on a > Cushman scooter parked in front of me. Had his grandson with him. > However, when I got back after the pre-ride speech, he was gone. > Apparently someone had mentioned to him that the ride would include I-270, > the Beltway and G.W. Parkway...and I guess his scooter couldn't handle the > speeds. Too bad, his heart was in the right place... > > > -- Mike B. > considering that the ride (from Patriot) also included the Beltway and GW Parkway, he wouldn't have a problem since it was rare to go over 40mph. Most of the time we never went over 35mph. About 4,000 bikes turned out at Patriot. We ended up in the overflow on the South Pentagon parking lot. Got there at 10am and finally pulled out of the parking lot close to 3pm. South parking lot had *one* porta potty and the South lot was as full as the Northside. Averaged about an hour and a half waiting in line. -aki From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 1 15:32:21 2004 From: "Jefferson Parke" To: adamme1@XXXXXX, ajreinhardt@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: motorcycle trailer Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 15:32:22 -0400 And that's exactly the problem that I'm having :( >From: >To: Adam Reinhardt ,Jefferson Parke >,dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: Re: motorcycle trailer >Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 15:12:08 -0400 > >Prob is that U-Haul won't rent to anyone who's using >an Explorer. Atleast for the enclosed ones. I don't >know if it also applies to open trailers. > >-aki > > > > > From: Adam Reinhardt > > Date: 2004/06/01 Tue PM 02:43:37 EDT > > To: Jefferson Parke , >dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > Subject: Re: motorcycle trailer > > > > If no one on the list comes through, U-haul rents > > single bike trailers for around $10-15 per day. Might > > be worth calling around to couple spots to see if they > > have one. > > > > > > Adam > > > > > > --- Jefferson Parke > > wrote: > > > Does anyone have a motorcycle trailer that I could > > > borrow or rent from this > > > Friday evening to Saturday evening? I would be > > > towing behind an Explorer > > > down to Charlotte NC and then back up with my nused > > > 1990 VFR. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Jeff > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar )B– get > > > it now! > > > > > http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. > > http://messenger.yahoo.com/ > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with the new version of MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 1 15:37:31 2004 Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 15:30:58 -0400 From: Skip To: Paul Wilson CC: Jason Picton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Rt. 211 "Racetrack" Paul Wilson wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jason Picton > Sent: Jun 1, 2004 11:44 AM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: RE: Re: Rt. 211 "Racetrack" > > I am been lurking on the this thread for a little while and have a few > thoughts... > > 1. What else do you expect the cops/govt to do.... > --------------- > That is *precisely* the problem, I don't have very high expectations when it comes to gubmint action. [snip good stuff] now you're just talking crazy, Paul. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 1 16:37:07 2004 Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 16:39:41 -0400 To: , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Re: motorcycle trailer At 03:12 PM 6/1/04 -0400, adamme1@XXXXXX wrote: >Prob is that U-Haul won't rent to anyone who's using >an Explorer. Atleast for the enclosed ones. I don't >know if it also applies to open trailers. What?!? Have they got a reason?? It certainly can't be a towing capacity limit... They've rented trailers to me with my Jeep GC in the past. I won't deal with them anymore though. That idiocy about fingerprinting all customers was the last straw... -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 1 16:43:35 2004 Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 16:45:55 -0400 To: , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: RE: Rolling Thunder - sportbike friendly? At 03:15 PM 6/1/04 -0400, adamme1@XXXXXX wrote: >> From: Mike Bartman >> At 10:56 AM 6/1/04 -0400, Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS) wrote: >> At Battley's, where we formed up for the ride down, there was a guy on a >> Cushman scooter parked in front of me. Had his grandson with him. >> However, when I got back after the pre-ride speech, he was gone. >> Apparently someone had mentioned to him that the ride would include I-270, >> the Beltway and G.W. Parkway...and I guess his scooter couldn't handle the >> speeds. Too bad, his heart was in the right place... > >considering that the ride (from Patriot) also included >the Beltway and GW Parkway, he wouldn't have a problem >since it was rare to go over 40mph. Most of the time >we never went over 35mph. I think we hit 55 a couple of times. Bernie (leader) said he would stick with 45 the whole way, so if anyone else saw anything else it would be "slinky effect". >About 4,000 bikes turned out at Patriot. We ended up in the >overflow on the South Pentagon parking lot. Got there at >10am and finally pulled out of the parking lot close to 3pm. I don't know how many Battley's had, but one estimate was about 1200. I was about 80 bikes back from the front, and I never saw the tail... We left Battley's at 9am on the dot (GPS time), and got parked about 10am. We were halfway across in the North Lot, and pulled out just before 2pm I think...we were through the whole route by 2:38pm anyway. >South parking lot had *one* porta potty and the South lot was as full as the Northside. Averaged about an hour and a half waiting in line. Ouch. I counted at least 75 in the north lot. I guess they weren't expecting to have to use the south lot? Hope they adjust things for next time. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 1 16:45:31 2004 Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 13:45:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Ray Subject: Re: Re: motorcycle trailer To: DC Cycles Nope. See their website & fine print. No stated reason. The unstated reason seems to be that exploders roll over. U-haul, not in the business of being sued, likes to stay away from bad press and getting sued. Interestingly, they rent to mountaneers without a problem. Just not exploders. Once again, blame the lawyers. Standard DCC response? Time to round them up and shoot them all. My preference? Works for me, but please not Gimer. I've met him, and he seems like a good guy. (Tongue firmly in cheek for this last paragraph for those who don't understand humor.) --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 03:12 PM 6/1/04 -0400, adamme1@XXXXXX wrote: > >Prob is that U-Haul won't rent to anyone who's > using > >an Explorer. Atleast for the enclosed ones. I > don't > >know if it also applies to open trailers. > > What?!? Have they got a reason?? It certainly > can't be a towing capacity > limit... > > They've rented trailers to me with my Jeep GC in the > past. I won't deal > with them anymore though. That idiocy about > fingerprinting all customers > was the last straw... > > > -- Mike B. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 1 16:50:04 2004 From: To: Mike Bartman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: motorcycle trailer Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 16:49:57 -0400 > > From: Mike Bartman > Date: 2004/06/01 Tue PM 04:39:41 EDT > To: , dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Re: motorcycle trailer > > At 03:12 PM 6/1/04 -0400, adamme1@XXXXXX wrote: > >Prob is that U-Haul won't rent to anyone who's using > >an Explorer. Atleast for the enclosed ones. I don't > >know if it also applies to open trailers. > > What?!? Have they got a reason?? It certainly can't be a towing capacity > limit... > > They've rented trailers to me with my Jeep GC in the past. I won't deal > with them anymore though. That idiocy about fingerprinting all customers > was the last straw... > > > -- Mike B. U-Haul Forbids Rentals to Explorer Drivers Thu Jan 8, 6:27 AM ET Add Business - AP to My Yahoo! DETROIT - U-Haul is forbidding its stores from renting trailers to customers driving Ford Explorers, citing product liability lawsuits involving the popular sport utility vehicle, a newspaper reported. U-Haul International Inc., North America's largest trailer rental company with more than 17,000 outlets, implemented the policy Dec. 22, saying it can no longer afford to defend the lawsuits, The Detroit News reported in Thursday editions. "U-Haul has chosen not to rent behind this tow vehicle based on our history of excessive costs in defending lawsuits involving Ford Explorer towing combinations," the company told the newspaper, adding that the move is "not related to safety issues." Joanne Fried, a U-Haul spokeswoman, declined to disclose how much the Phoenix-based company has spent defending lawsuits involving Explorers. "The decision is not based on one accident," she said. "It's based on several different lawsuits going on for several years." Ford Motor Co. spokesman Jon Harmon called U-Haul's decision "surprising and disappointing." "This is all about runaway litigation and trial lawyers forcing businesses to make unfortunate decisions for fear of lawsuits," he said. U-Haul was involved in a lawsuit that Bridgestone/Firestone settled out of court in September. It involved three college students who were injured when their Firestone-equipped Explorer overturned while pulling a U-Haul trailer. Bridgestone/Firestone is currently trying reach an agreement on a $149 million settlement of 30 class-action lawsuits because of defective tires. Although federal regulators have said there isn't enough evidence to show that the Explorer model contributed to the tire defects, many of the problem tires were equipped on Explorers. A bulletin issued to U-Haul dealers last month said the company's decision was "based on the negative perceptions of Ford Explorers ... we are separating ourselves from the negative public perception and its potential consequences." Ford has maintained the Explorer is safe. In 2002, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (news - web sites) traced Explorer tire failures and resulting rollovers to tire manufacturing flaws. Fried said the rental ban applies to all model years, even though the Explorer was redesigned in 2002, improving its rollover rating. It was voted "tow vehicle of the year" by Trailer Boats magazine the same year. Ford launched the Explorer 14 years ago and this month will deliver its 5 millionth unit. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 1 17:26:11 2004 Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 17:25:36 -0400 From: Brian Roach To: dan CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Rt. 211 "Racetrack" dan wrote: > And as far as parts, mountain or track, its the same. Plenty people wad > them either place. Rider safety is probably the best selling point. I agree on the rider safety point, but lets look at that parts thing... Case in point ... I crashed this weekend at Summit point, tucking the front in T6 which is about 60mph. Bike slid to a stop in the run-off area. Damage: A bar end slider, a foot peg slider, and a brake lever. Maybe a frame slider, but it's not too worn down. There is a slight scuff on the bodywork, but it's not bad at all. Try that on 211 into the armco (or into a ravine), let me know what parts you need :D :D :D - Roach -- http://www.speedwerks.com The one-stop shop for all your motorcycling needs! (302) 672 - 7223 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 1 18:08:01 2004 Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 18:07:45 -0400 Subject: Re: Rt. 211 "Racetrack" Cc: dan , dc-cycles@XXXXXX To: Brian Roach From: Randy Moran On Tuesday, June 1, 2004, at 05:25 PM, Brian Roach wrote: > dan wrote: > >> And as far as parts, mountain or track, its the same. Plenty people >> wad them either place. Rider safety is probably the best selling >> point. > > I agree on the rider safety point, but lets look at that parts thing... > > Case in point ... I crashed this weekend at Summit point, tucking the > front in T6 which is about 60mph. Bike slid to a stop in the run-off > area. Damage: A bar end slider, a foot peg slider, and a brake lever. > Maybe a frame slider, but it's not too worn down. There is a slight > scuff on the bodywork, but it's not bad at all. > > Try that on 211 into the armco (or into a ravine), let me know what > parts you need :D :D :D I'm guessing that will be one arm, a spine, a knee or two, and probably a foot...Oh, you meant bike parts. My bad. RPM From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 1 19:57:54 2004 Reply-To: From: "Lisa Goddard" To: , Subject: 211 Racetrack Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 19:57:40 -0400 Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 18:07:45 -0400 Subject: Re: Rt. 211 "Racetrack" Cc: dan , dc-cycles@XXXXXX To: Brian Roach From: Randy Moran On Tuesday, June 1, 2004, at 05:25 PM, Brian Roach wrote: > dan wrote: > >> And as far as parts, mountain or track, its the same. Plenty people >> wad them either place. Rider safety is probably the best selling >> point. > > I agree on the rider safety point, but lets look at that parts thing... > > Case in point ... I crashed this weekend at Summit point, tucking the > front in T6 which is about 60mph. Bike slid to a stop in the run-off > area. Damage: A bar end slider, a foot peg slider, and a brake lever. > Maybe a frame slider, but it's not too worn down. There is a slight > scuff on the bodywork, but it's not bad at all. > > Try that on 211 into the armco (or into a ravine), let me know what > parts you need :D :D :D I'm guessing that will be one arm, a spine, a knee or two, and probably a foot...Oh, you meant bike parts. My bad. RPM Hey Randy and others, I too crashed this past weekend! Well, Monday, part of a Holiday weekend. Going at least 80mph on turn 7 at Beaver Run. I hit the ripples and the front wheel washed out from under me and went-a-slidin'! My right thumb feels about 95%, I can tell something is just a little sore when I use my hand to write. Typing and motorcycle riding are no problem. My bum feels like I fell down ice-skating or skiing. Other than that, I feel absolutely fine and fully intend to continue to commute on my street bike all week. My poor track bike has about $100. in damage, Jay has his work cut out for him and promised me that it will be fine for its next thrashing at VIR North later on this month. There's something to be said for plenty of good, wet grass to slide along and nothing to hit. Lisa Goddard '95 VFR, street '97 GSXR, track From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 1 21:26:07 2004 Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 18:25:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Re: motorcycle trailer To: Jefferson Parke , adamme1@XXXXXX, ajreinhardt@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX pick up the trailer with another vehicle? --- Jefferson Parke wrote: > And that's exactly the problem that I'm having :( > > > >From: > >To: Adam Reinhardt ,Jefferson > Parke > >,dc-cycles@XXXXXX > >Subject: Re: Re: motorcycle trailer > >Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 15:12:08 -0400 > > > >Prob is that U-Haul won't rent to anyone who's using > >an Explorer. Atleast for the enclosed ones. I don't > >know if it also applies to open trailers. > > > >-aki > > > > > > > > From: Adam Reinhardt > > > Date: 2004/06/01 Tue PM 02:43:37 EDT > > > To: Jefferson Parke , > >dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > > Subject: Re: motorcycle trailer > > > > > > If no one on the list comes through, U-haul rents > > > single bike trailers for around $10-15 per day. > Might > > > be worth calling around to couple spots to see if > they > > > have one. > > > > > > > > > Adam > > > > > > > > > --- Jefferson Parke > > > wrote: > > > > Does anyone have a motorcycle trailer that I could > > > > borrow or rent from this > > > > Friday evening to Saturday evening? I would be > > > > towing behind an Explorer > > > > down to Charlotte NC and then back up with my nused > > > > 1990 VFR. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 1 21:33:17 2004 From: "Jefferson Parke" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: motorcycle trailer Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 21:33:18 -0400 I thought about that too. Actually I think I've decided to haul the bike in the back of a minivan. It's convenient and free and I think I've covered all of my bases -- ramp, dimensions, weight, straps and tie down points. If I second guess then I'm sure you'll hear from me again. Thanks everyone for the offers and recommendations. I really appreciate it. Very cool group! Jeff >From: Tom Gimer >To: Jefferson Parke , adamme1@XXXXXX, >ajreinhardt@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: Re: motorcycle trailer >Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 18:25:59 -0700 (PDT) > >pick up the trailer with another vehicle? > > >--- Jefferson Parke wrote: > > And that's exactly the problem that I'm having :( > > > > > > >From: > > >To: Adam Reinhardt ,Jefferson > > Parke > > >,dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > >Subject: Re: Re: motorcycle trailer > > >Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 15:12:08 -0400 > > > > > >Prob is that U-Haul won't rent to anyone who's using > > >an Explorer. Atleast for the enclosed ones. I don't > > >know if it also applies to open trailers. > > > > > >-aki > > > > > > > > > > > From: Adam Reinhardt > > > > Date: 2004/06/01 Tue PM 02:43:37 EDT > > > > To: Jefferson Parke , > > >dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > > > Subject: Re: motorcycle trailer > > > > > > > > If no one on the list comes through, U-haul rents > > > > single bike trailers for around $10-15 per day. > > Might > > > > be worth calling around to couple spots to see if > > they > > > > have one. > > > > > > > > > > > > Adam > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Jefferson Parke > > > > wrote: > > > > > Does anyone have a motorcycle trailer that I could > > > > > borrow or rent from this > > > > > Friday evening to Saturday evening? I would be > > > > > towing behind an Explorer > > > > > down to Charlotte NC and then back up with my nused > > > > > 1990 VFR. > > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. >http://messenger.yahoo.com/ _________________________________________________________________ MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page )B– FREE download! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 1 21:38:42 2004 Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 18:38:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Re: motorcycle trailer To: Jefferson Parke , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Jefferson Parke wrote: > I thought about that too. Actually I think I've decided > to haul the bike in > the back of a minivan. It's convenient and free and I > think I've covered > all of my bases -- ramp, dimensions, weight, straps and > tie down points. If > I second guess then I'm sure you'll hear from me again. if it really fits, be sure to have support loading it. little to no clearance on the top side should make for some interesting maneuvering. > Thanks everyone for the offers and recommendations. I > really appreciate it. > Very cool group! > > >From: Tom Gimer > >To: Jefferson Parke , > adamme1@XXXXXX, > >ajreinhardt@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX > >Subject: Re: Re: motorcycle trailer > >Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 18:25:59 -0700 (PDT) > > > >pick up the trailer with another vehicle? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 1 21:56:41 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 21:56:30 EDT Subject: Re: motorcycle trailer To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/1/2004 4:45:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bdaleray@XXXXXX writes: > U-haul, not in the business of > being sued, likes to stay away from bad press and > getting sued. They will not rent to convertibles either, my wifes Tracker for instance. Oh and the $15 (or whatever) per is _NOT_ per day! It is per rental and the time is completely undefined. They will try to rent the same truck/trailer at least 3 times per day and will lie through their teeth to do that. "Someone has that unit rented at noon." or whatever time will get it back on time to rent it again. Unfortunately it took me far too many rentals to realize what they were pulling. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 1 21:56:50 2004 From: "Rob Sharp" To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Rt. 211 "Racetrack" Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 21:58:51 -0400 Yep, have you seen Subaru WRX (sti) or the EVO or the 350Z. They are mind numbily fast. I would rather have a 400 lbs bike bounce off my grill than a 2000 lbs sports car. At least on a bike the other motorists have a better chance of surviving a collision. As for the ticket cost, mine was $151 this weekend. 63 in a 45, stupid evil speed trap where the road goes from 65 to 45. I was slowing down but then again the PA police don't care about that they care about the income. Rob On Tue, 1 Jun 2004 13:43:49 EDT, PenguinBiker wrote > Which brings up "Johns Equation of Idiots on Motorcycles" > > Start with an _I_diot on a _M_otorcycle or I/M > Subtract (outlaw) the _M_otorcycle. You are left with _I_. > Do you think _I_ is going to walk? Take the subway? > Hell no. > _I_ is going to get the badest, fastest car he can find and ride it > just like he rode his bike. Are you safer? Is your family safer? Do > you really want an _I_diot riding 2_tons_ of deadly weapon? > > That argument usually gives pause to the "outlaw > sportbike/motorcycle crowd." > > John Walters (Long John) > PenguinBiker@XXXXXX > Up near DC > > 1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European > 1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles > 1976, Honda CR250M Motowhat racer -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 1 22:41:52 2004 From: "Gary Foreman" To: "'Jefferson Parke'" , Subject: RE: motorcycle trailer Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 22:45:03 -0400 I'm planning on trying one of these: http://www.versahaul.com/vhsportro.html I only haul the bike to the track 20 miles away and back a couple of times a year. I think my Tundra and class III hitch will be okay to hail my GSX-R1000. Anyone else have one of these? Gary Foreman -----Original Message----- From: Jefferson Parke [mailto:jeffersonparke@XXXXXX] Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 1:55 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: motorcycle trailer Does anyone have a motorcycle trailer that I could borrow or rent from this Friday evening to Saturday evening? I would be towing behind an Explorer down to Charlotte NC and then back up with my nused 1990 VFR. Thanks, Jeff _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar - get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 1 23:22:56 2004 Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 20:22:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Adam Reinhardt Subject: RE: motorcycle trailer To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I don't have one but I saw a couple last weekend at a track day that I went to. Must be working fine for some people. I also saw a trailer that looks like just a rail with two wheels attached to it. Perhaps a custom job? Or maybe someone is making these. Adam 1 Suzuki GS500 .5 Honda Hurricane = 1.5 bikes --- Gary Foreman wrote: > I'm planning on trying one of these: > > http://www.versahaul.com/vhsportro.html > > I only haul the bike to the track 20 miles away and > back a couple of times a > year. I think my Tundra and class III hitch will be > okay to hail my > GSX-R1000. > > Anyone else have one of these? > > Gary Foreman > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jefferson Parke > [mailto:jeffersonparke@XXXXXX] > Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 1:55 PM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: motorcycle trailer > > Does anyone have a motorcycle trailer that I could > borrow or rent from this > Friday evening to Saturday evening? I would be > towing behind an Explorer > down to Charlotte NC and then back up with my nused > 1990 VFR. > > Thanks, > Jeff > > _________________________________________________________________ > FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar - get > it now! > http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 2 06:51:21 2004 Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 03:50:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: Re: motorcycle trailer To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Any reason you can't just ride it back? Sure you will need to do some paperwork upfront and you might have to take a flight/train/bus down there. There sure are some nice roads between here and there though... Glenn --- Jefferson Parke wrote: > And that's exactly the problem that I'm having :( > > > >From: > >To: Adam Reinhardt > ,Jefferson Parke > >,dc-cycles@XXXXXX > >Subject: Re: Re: motorcycle trailer > >Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 15:12:08 -0400 > > > >Prob is that U-Haul won't rent to anyone who's > using > >an Explorer. Atleast for the enclosed ones. I > don't > >know if it also applies to open trailers. > > > >-aki > > > > > > > > From: Adam Reinhardt > > > Date: 2004/06/01 Tue PM 02:43:37 EDT > > > To: Jefferson Parke > , > >dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > > Subject: Re: motorcycle trailer > > > > > > If no one on the list comes through, U-haul > rents > > > single bike trailers for around $10-15 per day. > Might > > > be worth calling around to couple spots to see > if they > > > have one. > > > > > > > > > Adam > > > > > > > > > --- Jefferson Parke > > > wrote: > > > > Does anyone have a motorcycle trailer that I > could > > > > borrow or rent from this > > > > Friday evening to Saturday evening? I would > be > > > > towing behind an Explorer > > > > down to Charlotte NC and then back up with my > nused > > > > 1990 VFR. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Jeff > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar > )B– get > > > > it now! > > > > > > > > http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! > Messenger. > > > http://messenger.yahoo.com/ > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Express yourself with the new version of MSN > Messenger! Download today - > it's FREE! > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 2 06:59:26 2004 Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 03:59:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: RE: motorcycle trailer To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX You already have a truck, unless you have a cap on it why not just load it in the bed with one of these: http://tinyurl.com/258fl Glenn --- Gary Foreman wrote: > I'm planning on trying one of these: > > http://www.versahaul.com/vhsportro.html > > I only haul the bike to the track 20 miles away and > back a couple of times a > year. I think my Tundra and class III hitch will be > okay to hail my > GSX-R1000. > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 2 07:26:53 2004 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: lists@XXXXXX via smtp-1.hrnoc.net X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.20st (Clear:RC:1(216.120.225.30):. Processed in 0.024024 secs) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 07:26:49 -0400 From: "Gary Foreman" To: Glenn Dysart , Subject: Re: motorcycle trailer X-HR-Scan-Signature: a3ff4645bb52503213d1ddd0de148c90 X-HR-SA-Score: () X-HR-Status: HR_AVScanned-(lists@XXXXXX/216.120.225.37) It's a huge PITA to get the Leer Hard Tonaeu cover off and on. I've been hauling it in the bed, but I used to have a storage facility to store the cover for a few days, I don't have that anymore. http://www.gwfweb.com/cycles/021014/1014-62.jpg Glenn Dysart wrote: > You already have a truck, unless you have a cap on it > why not just load it in the bed with one of these: > > http://tinyurl.com/258fl > > Glenn > > --- Gary Foreman wrote: > > I'm planning on trying one of these: > > > > http://www.versahaul.com/vhsportro.html > > > > I only haul the bike to the track 20 miles away and > > back a couple of times a > > year. I think my Tundra and class III hitch will be > > okay to hail my > > GSX-R1000. > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. > http://messenger.yahoo.com/ > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 2 07:29:44 2004 Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 04:29:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: motorcycle trailer To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Understandable. I wanted one of those "hard" covers for my Taco but knew I'd be hauling the bike so I got a soft cover. Glenn --- Gary Foreman wrote: > It's a huge PITA to get the Leer Hard Tonaeu cover > off and on. I've been > hauling it in the bed, but I used to have a storage > facility to store the > cover for a few days, I don't have that anymore. > > http://www.gwfweb.com/cycles/021014/1014-62.jpg > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 2 07:40:19 2004 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: lists@XXXXXX via smtp-1.hrnoc.net X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.20st (Clear:RC:1(216.120.225.30):. Processed in 0.023949 secs) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 07:40:15 -0400 From: "Gary Foreman" To: Glenn Dysart , Subject: Re: motorcycle trailer X-HR-Scan-Signature: d705626118f385ecb0b291450b2a5185 X-HR-SA-Score: () X-HR-Status: HR_AVScanned-(lists@XXXXXX/216.120.225.37) Yeah, mine came with a soft cover and I sold it to Brian Roach! Damn, should have kept it :-) I'd really like a trailer...but the damn HOA won't allow it stored outside. I can hang the Versahaul on the wall. Gary Glenn Dysart wrote: > Understandable. I wanted one of those "hard" covers > for my Taco but knew I'd be hauling the bike so I got > a soft cover. > > Glenn > > --- Gary Foreman wrote: > > It's a huge PITA to get the Leer Hard Tonaeu cover > > off and on. I've been > > hauling it in the bed, but I used to have a storage > > facility to store the > > cover for a few days, I don't have that anymore. > > > > http://www.gwfweb.com/cycles/021014/1014-62.jpg > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. > http://messenger.yahoo.com/ > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 2 07:57:53 2004 Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 04:57:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: motorcycle trailer To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Northern also makes a folding trailing with casters on it so it takes up verty little floor space http://www2.northerntool.com/product/465468/ Might want to condsider on of those. Glenn --- Gary Foreman wrote: > Yeah, mine came with a soft cover and I sold it to > Brian Roach! Damn, should > have kept it :-) > > I'd really like a trailer...but the damn HOA won't > allow it stored outside. I > can hang the Versahaul on the wall. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 2 08:21:16 2004 From: "W.S." To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Parking ticket fighters Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 08:20:54 -0400 Another parking ticket fighter sight (NYC, SF, DC) (from Fox5 this am): http://www.drivingtoday.com/news_this_week/2004-02-06-2633-driving/. Scroll to bottom for DC which is apparently due to activate this pm according to Fox5. Bill S. / DC '99 VN750 > I'd rather be moving than parked Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 2 08:27:08 2004 Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 05:26:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Ray Subject: RE: motorcycle trailer To: DC Cycles Before you try the versahaul, check the tongue weight max on your hitch. Most trucks have a 500 lb max. - Some of the heavier 3/4 & 1-ton trucks may have 1,000 lb, but IMHO that's unusual. Also, you should look into the "trailer in a bag" - http://www.trailerinabag.com/main.html - seems like an interesting setup, and can easily be stored inside. --- Gary Foreman wrote: > I'm planning on trying one of these: > > http://www.versahaul.com/vhsportro.html > > I only haul the bike to the track 20 miles away and > back a couple of times a > year. I think my Tundra and class III hitch will be > okay to hail my > GSX-R1000. > > Anyone else have one of these? > > Gary Foreman > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 2 08:47:27 2004 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: lists@XXXXXX via smtp-1.hrnoc.net X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.20st (Clear:RC:1(216.120.225.30):. Processed in 0.024283 secs) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 08:47:24 -0400 From: "Gary Foreman" To: Brian Ray , "DC Cycles" Subject: Re: motorcycle trailer X-HR-Scan-Signature: b382aa10436a68c74b5f3e21a0449cc5 X-HR-SA-Score: () X-HR-Status: HR_AVScanned-(lists@XXXXXX/216.120.225.37) I like the Trailer in a bag, but it's a little pricey for me, almost twice the VersHaul. Gary Brian Ray wrote: > Before you try the versahaul, check the tongue weight > max on your hitch. Most trucks have a 500 lb max. - > Some of the heavier 3/4 & 1-ton trucks may have 1,000 > lb, but IMHO that's unusual. > > Also, you should look into the "trailer in a bag" - > http://www.trailerinabag.com/main.html - seems like an > interesting setup, and can easily be stored inside. > > --- Gary Foreman wrote: > > I'm planning on trying one of these: > > > > http://www.versahaul.com/vhsportro.html > > > > I only haul the bike to the track 20 miles away and > > back a couple of times a > > year. I think my Tundra and class III hitch will be > > okay to hail my > > GSX-R1000. > > > > Anyone else have one of these? > > > > Gary Foreman > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. > http://messenger.yahoo.com/ > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 2 09:44:04 2004 Reply-To: "Louis Caplan" From: "Louis Caplan" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Fastest way to Summit Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2004 09:44:59 -0400 Not directly MC related, but a lot of people on this list go to the race track... Some friends of mine moved to Charles Town, they are only a few blocks away from Summit Race Track (in fact I have to take Summit Pt. Road to get to them) I'm going to visit them this Sunday. Since I'm bringing the wife and baby, I'm taking the cage. And since my daughter now hates the car seat (still has to face backwards for another 2 months) I'd like to take the QUICKEST route there. Would that be Rt. 7 to 340? Or Rt. 9? Something else? I'll be heading up from Fairfax, so I'm guessing the Dulles Toll Road would be a faster way to get to Leesburg? Of course if I were going by myself, I'd take the bike and probably hit Snickerville, Mt. Weather Road or something else along those lines. Thanks, Louis - - - - - - - "Admiral" Louis Caplan 1998 Kawasaki Concours Fairfax, VA Please consider helping me support the Pediatric Brain Tumor Foundation http://www.geocities.com/nighthawk700/rideforkids.htm From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 2 10:07:21 2004 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: lists@XXXXXX via smtp-1.hrnoc.net X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.20st (Clear:RC:1(216.120.225.30):. Processed in 0.024293 secs) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 10:07:15 -0400 From: "Gary Foreman" To: "Louis Caplan" , Subject: Re: Fastest way to Summit X-HR-Scan-Signature: a3ff4645bb52503213d1ddd0de148c90 X-HR-SA-Score: () X-HR-Status: HR_AVScanned-(lists@XXXXXX/216.120.225.37) Greenway to Leesburg, 7 West, 9 to Charlestown, then once you get to Main St. light, left to the curve/stopsign, left on Summit Point Rd. Gary "Louis Caplan" wrote: > Not directly MC related, but a lot of people on this list go to the race > track... > > Some friends of mine moved to Charles Town, they are only a few blocks away > from Summit Race Track (in fact I have to take Summit Pt. Road to get to them) > > I'm going to visit them this Sunday. Since I'm bringing the wife and baby, I'm > taking the cage. And since my daughter now hates the car seat (still has to > face backwards for another 2 months) I'd like to take the QUICKEST route there. > Would that be Rt. 7 to 340? Or Rt. 9? Something else? I'll be heading up > from Fairfax, so I'm guessing the Dulles Toll Road would be a faster way to get > to Leesburg? > > Of course if I were going by myself, I'd take the bike and probably hit > Snickerville, Mt. Weather Road or something else along those lines. > > Thanks, > > Louis > > - - - - - - - > "Admiral" Louis Caplan 1998 Kawasaki Concours Fairfax, VA > Please consider helping me support the Pediatric Brain Tumor Foundation > http://www.geocities.com/nighthawk700/rideforkids.htm > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 2 10:10:32 2004 Subject: 2004 equals 1984 Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 10:10:27 -0400 From: "Julian Halton" To: "Paul Wilson" , "Dave Yates" , I came across an article in the Washington Times about the use of a digital camera, connected to a laptop that Arlington county drones now take on roving patrol of parking lots...they sweep license plates and instantly the data brings up the registered owners info..If they owe taxes of any kind, the license plate is stripped from the car and a green lien\tow tag is placed on the vehicle. If I remember my history correctly, one of the founding events of this country was the Boston Tea party. When will people finally have enough of the Thought Police? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 2 10:15:12 2004 From: "Jim McGonigle" To: Subject: RE: 2004 equals 1984 Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 10:14:53 -0400 I'm sick of hearing about how people who don't pay what they owe are having their rights trampled on. Pay your f**king taxes and fees like the rest of us and you won't have issues. People who don't pay just make the rest of us pay more. If you want to rant, rant on the fact that the taxes are too high, mismanaged, too complicated, etc... Just getting worse now that the government needs to collect more money because they spend too much and they don't raise taxes, they just raise new and more confusing fees... Sorry, just a pet peeve. -Jim -----Original Message----- From: Julian Halton [mailto:julian@XXXXXX] Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 10:10 AM To: Paul Wilson; Dave Yates; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: 2004 equals 1984 I came across an article in the Washington Times about the use of a digital camera, connected to a laptop that Arlington county drones now take on roving patrol of parking lots...they sweep license plates and instantly the data brings up the registered owners info..If they owe taxes of any kind, the license plate is stripped from the car and a green lien\tow tag is placed on the vehicle. If I remember my history correctly, one of the founding events of this country was the Boston Tea party. When will people finally have enough of the Thought Police? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 2 10:18:20 2004 From: "Bruce N" To: "Gary Foreman" , "Louis Caplan" , Subject: Re: Fastest way to Summit Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 10:16:02 -0400 No, no, no! Rt. 9 is far too slow with a screaming child. From the Summit Point website, http://www.summitpoint-raceway.com/ Take Route 7 West past Leesburg toward Winchester, VA. (You may wish to take the Route 7 Leesburg bypass to avoid downtown Leesburg.) Continue on Route 7 West past the Berryville exits and turn right onto Route 632 (Crums Church Road). Follow 632 until you reach the "T" intersection (where you must turn right or left). At that intersection, turn right onto Route 761 (Old Charles Town Road). Continue on 761 until you reach the next "T" intersection. Make a right turn and follow 300 yards. The entrance will be on your right. Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Foreman" To: "Louis Caplan" ; Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 10:07 AM Subject: Re: Fastest way to Summit > Greenway to Leesburg, 7 West, 9 to Charlestown, then once you get to Main St. > light, left to the curve/stopsign, left on Summit Point Rd. > > Gary > > > > "Louis Caplan" wrote: > > > Not directly MC related, but a lot of people on this list go to the race > > track... > > > > Some friends of mine moved to Charles Town, they are only a few blocks away > > from Summit Race Track (in fact I have to take Summit Pt. Road to get to > them) > > > > I'm going to visit them this Sunday. Since I'm bringing the wife and baby, > I'm > > taking the cage. And since my daughter now hates the car seat (still has to > > face backwards for another 2 months) I'd like to take the QUICKEST route > there. > > Would that be Rt. 7 to 340? Or Rt. 9? Something else? I'll be heading up > > from Fairfax, so I'm guessing the Dulles Toll Road would be a faster way to > get > > to Leesburg? > > > > Of course if I were going by myself, I'd take the bike and probably hit > > Snickerville, Mt. Weather Road or something else along those lines. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Louis From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 2 10:27:23 2004 Subject: RE: 2004 equals 1984 Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 10:27:18 -0400 From: "Julian Halton" To: "Jim McGonigle" , What I disagree with is draconian enforcement to the tune of having a lien placed on your vehicle. What's next, midnight raids on people that pay their parking tickets late?? -----Original Message----- From: Jim McGonigle [mailto:jmcgonigle@XXXXXX] Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 10:15 AM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: 2004 equals 1984 I'm sick of hearing about how people who don't pay what they owe are having their rights trampled on. Pay your f**king taxes and fees like the rest of us and you won't have issues. People who don't pay just make the rest of us pay more. If you want to rant, rant on the fact that the taxes are too high, mismanaged, too complicated, etc... Just getting worse now that the government needs to collect more money because they spend too much and they don't raise taxes, they just raise new and more confusing fees... Sorry, just a pet peeve. -Jim -----Original Message----- From: Julian Halton [mailto:julian@XXXXXX] Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 10:10 AM To: Paul Wilson; Dave Yates; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: 2004 equals 1984 I came across an article in the Washington Times about the use of a digital camera, connected to a laptop that Arlington county drones now take on roving patrol of parking lots...they sweep license plates and instantly the data brings up the registered owners info..If they owe taxes of any kind, the license plate is stripped from the car and a green lien\tow tag is placed on the vehicle. If I remember my history correctly, one of the founding events of this country was the Boston Tea party. When will people finally have enough of the Thought Police? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 2 10:31:04 2004 Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2004 10:33:40 -0400 To: "Gary Foreman" , "'Jefferson Parke'" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: motorcycle trailer At 10:45 PM 6/1/04 -0400, Gary Foreman wrote: >I'm planning on trying one of these: > >http://www.versahaul.com/vhsportro.html > >I only haul the bike to the track 20 miles away and back a couple of times a >year. I think my Tundra and class III hitch will be okay to hail my >GSX-R1000. It lists carrying capacity at 600 lbs, but don't forget to check out the "tongue weight" for your hitch. I think class III is limited to 500 lbs for that. Don't know what your bike weighs, but if it's in that range, best to know up front, rather than after it bends or breaks your new carrier...or hitch. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 2 10:36:35 2004 Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2004 10:36:20 -0400 From: Brian Roach To: Louis Caplan CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Fastest way to Summit Take the greenway to leesburg, then hop on Rt 7 west. Go for a while. Go over the mountain. Keep going. Go past 340/Berryvile At the second stoplight (Seriously ... there are none until you get to these two past Berryville), turn right onto 'Crums Church Road' (rt 632). There's a sign that says "Summit Point ->" right before it, and you will have just passed a Mobil station on the right side of Rt7, and there's a Sheets station at this intersection. Go to the end of this road to a T intersection, turn right. Go to the end of this road to a T intersection, turn right. You are now on Summit Point Road headed toward Charles Town, the track is about half a mile up on the right side. - Roach -- http://www.speedwerks.com The one-stop shop for all your motorcycling needs! (302) 672 - 7223 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 2 10:38:53 2004 From: "Jim McGonigle" To: "'Julian Halton'" , Subject: RE: 2004 equals 1984 Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 10:38:40 -0400 For parking tickets being late just get them the next time their car is found, tow it and impound it until paid. Don't allow license renewal, plate renewal, etc... I understand your concern as things escalate, but a little common sense (I know, I'm dreaming) would go far... -----Original Message----- From: Julian Halton [mailto:julian@XXXXXX] Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 10:27 AM To: Jim McGonigle; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: 2004 equals 1984 What I disagree with is draconian enforcement to the tune of having a lien placed on your vehicle. What's next, midnight raids on people that pay their parking tickets late?? -----Original Message----- From: Jim McGonigle [mailto:jmcgonigle@XXXXXX] Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 10:15 AM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: 2004 equals 1984 I'm sick of hearing about how people who don't pay what they owe are having their rights trampled on. Pay your f**king taxes and fees like the rest of us and you won't have issues. People who don't pay just make the rest of us pay more. If you want to rant, rant on the fact that the taxes are too high, mismanaged, too complicated, etc... Just getting worse now that the government needs to collect more money because they spend too much and they don't raise taxes, they just raise new and more confusing fees... Sorry, just a pet peeve. -Jim -----Original Message----- From: Julian Halton [mailto:julian@XXXXXX] Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 10:10 AM To: Paul Wilson; Dave Yates; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: 2004 equals 1984 I came across an article in the Washington Times about the use of a digital camera, connected to a laptop that Arlington county drones now take on roving patrol of parking lots...they sweep license plates and instantly the data brings up the registered owners info..If they owe taxes of any kind, the license plate is stripped from the car and a green lien\tow tag is placed on the vehicle. If I remember my history correctly, one of the founding events of this country was the Boston Tea party. When will people finally have enough of the Thought Police? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 2 10:45:17 2004 Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2004 10:47:25 -0400 To: "Julian Halton" , "Paul Wilson" , "Dave Yates" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: 2004 equals 1984 At 10:10 AM 6/2/04 -0400, Julian Halton wrote: > >I came across an article in the Washington Times about the use of a >digital camera, connected to a laptop that Arlington county drones now >take on roving patrol of parking lots...they sweep license plates and >instantly the data brings up the registered owners info..If they owe >taxes of any kind, the license plate is stripped from the car and a >green lien\tow tag is placed on the vehicle. > >If I remember my history correctly, one of the founding events of this >country was the Boston Tea party. When will people finally have enough >of the Thought Police? Huh? How does "Thought Police" enter into it? This is the police using modern technology to enforce existing laws. If you don't want to have your car come up on their screen, pay your fines and taxes, or arrange things so you won't owe them in the first place. The Boston Tea Party was based on taxes that the taxpayers had no control over at all. It wasn't a democracy, representative or otherwise. If you don't like your taxes today, vote in some people who will lower them...and put up with fewer "services" from the government. Seems like a fair trade to me...depending on which "services" they cut out. The problem today is that we've shifted the tax burden primarily onto a few people, so the rest have little to lose by voting for people who will raise taxes and provide more benefits to them. They are basically voting to rob a few to benefit themselves. That wasn't possible under the original Constitution...the founders were smarter than that. It had to be amended to allow such things to happen. I believe that happened in 1913 with the 16th Amendment, but some folks claim it was never properly ratified. Doesn't really matter in a practical sense...if they ever proved that, it would get ratified in a hurry now. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 2 10:46:38 2004 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: lists@XXXXXX via smtp-1.hrnoc.net X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.20st (Clear:RC:1(216.120.225.30):. Processed in 0.060989 secs) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 10:46:32 -0400 From: "Gary Foreman" To: Mike Bartman , "Gary Foreman" , "'Jefferson Parke'" , Subject: Re: motorcycle trailer X-HR-Scan-Signature: 71fbb9d4f7a87e6f5cce04b57b19f684 X-HR-SA-Score: () X-HR-Status: HR_AVScanned-(lists@XXXXXX/216.120.225.37) Stonewall Cycle in Front Rouay has the Trailer in a bag in stock. Costs more, but yes, I think I would feel safer. Anyone own one of the Trailer-In-A-Bags ???? Gary From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 2 10:49:44 2004 Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2004 10:52:21 -0400 To: "Julian Halton" , "Jim McGonigle" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: 2004 equals 1984 At 10:27 AM 6/2/04 -0400, Julian Halton wrote: >What I disagree with is draconian enforcement to the tune of having a >lien placed on your vehicle. What's next, midnight raids on people that >pay their parking tickets late?? No, "civil forfeiture", where they "sue" the vehicle itself, and then take it from you completely. It's been normal practice for 15 years at least now. You can see a particularly egregious example in the case of "U.S. vs. One Helicopter", where the DEA stole a helicopter from a citizen because of a technical paperwork issue that should have fallen under the FAA's jurisdiction (and would have incurred a few hundred dollar fine there), but the DEA needed a free helicopter... They've been taking cars like this from those soliciting prostitutes for a long time. Read about it back when I still read the Washington Post...so that was the mid 80s anyway. Story about a guy who lost his mother-in-law's car that way. It's *seriously* unconstitutional if you ask me, but the courts never seem to for some reason... -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 2 10:51:38 2004 Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 07:51:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: 2004 equals 1984 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX This is a pipe dream.... --- Mike Bartman wrote: If you > don't like your taxes today, vote in some people who > will lower them...and > put up with fewer "services" from the government. > Seems like a fair trade > to me...depending on which "services" they cut out. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 2 11:03:23 2004 Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 11:03:19 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: RE: 2004 equals 1984 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Julian complained: >What I disagree with is draconian enforcement to the tune of >having a lien placed on your vehicle. What's next, midnight >raids on people that pay their parking tickets late?? Jim countered: >I'm sick of hearing about how people who don't pay what they >owe are having their rights trampled on. Pay your f**king >taxes and fees like the rest of us and you won't have >issues. People who don't pay just make the rest of us pay >more. > >If you want to rant, rant on the fact that the taxes are too >high, mismanaged, too complicated, etc [Dave] I'm sure within the next 10 years or so, you'll see some state attempt to make this sort of tax offense a class 1 misdemeanor involving jail time... The next step is felony... I'm sure that someone will take it too far, complete with SWAT, no knock "dynamic" entry, stun grenades... All for not having that handy little decal on your moto's fork leg. But I doubt it will be VA. Jim's point is completely valid though. If you're out in public with a vehicle in a publicly viewable place and you readily display information indicating that you could be a : tax cheat inspection scofflaw expired registration or, perhaps you've left some vials of crack on your 'wing's dash, well then you have to expect somebody's going to rat you out whether they be regular joes or johnny/joanie Law. You have no expectation of privacy in these cases. I will make a few points. 1: I sure see Arlington streets, developments etc. in the local papers for an awful lot of crime... Weren't they also involved with AG Kilgore in the latest Gang initiative? Obviously, Arlington doesn't have so much crime going on that they can obviously spare these revenue generators... 2: These "midnight raids" already happen for court judgments. Child support rings a bell... Is it a wonder why? I believe it was '87 or '88 - my unit's former 1SG was hit with a child support order in MD to the tune of $750 / kid x 3 kids plus alimony. It left him with a -$300 / month income. You can already get your license yanked for failure to pay child support, and every once in a while you get "delinquent parent" roundups that make the news. Not that I think delinquent parents are shining role models, but someone ought to be asking what the he!! the court is thinking by zeroing out a separated parent's income, and expecting him/her to be able to live... We're nowhere on par yet, but I do know of at least 2 senior citizen families that are literally being taxed out of Northern Virginia via these simply outrageous increases in real estate and other taxes. Both of these families are long time residents, one having lived here longer than I've been alive. They're not living in mansions. These county governments ought to be brought back to reality the "Old way". I think branding them as thieves would be a good start. 3: The Times picture showed them pointing their scanner out the car window. It reminds me of the UnFairTax revenue generators pointing their shoulder stocked Lidar guns at traffic. Sooner or later, somebody will misinterpret their intentions. Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 2 11:15:20 2004 From: Kirk Roy To: Subject: Sorry officer, it's Honda's fault I was going too fast Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 11:15:10 -0400 http://tinyurl.com/29xbt From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 2 11:19:29 2004 Subject: RE: 2004 equals 1984 Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 11:19:23 -0400 From: "Julian Halton" To: "Jim McGonigle" , I am going to explain my frustrations better. I was up at the beach all weekend staying with friends. I saw teams of auxiliary police stake out various locations. Someone in the house I was staying at was rounding the bend as I was relaxing on the front deck. They got pulled over and ticketed doing 19 in a 15 mph zone. I watched the same auxiliary's hover around meters and ticket\arrange for expedited towing of vehicles. At another beach I was at there are some many signs on the road related to parking that it takes half an hour to learn the intricacies of a particular spot. I have never had a problem with fair and reasonable taxation. I have problems with "shakedowns". You get a 25 dollar parking ticket and are late paying it, you should not have to face an impounded vehicle. In my opinion that is an overly harsh response, Having to pay when you renew your tags and registration is a fair solution, I have problems with a lack of accountability. Okay you pay a ticket late, and it doubles in cost, what if next year it triples? When I first moved here, I made the error of paying for a ticket with a post dated check. That sequence went something like this. - 50 dollar ticket - mail in check with a date three days in advance - check gets cashed and returned NSF - 50 dollar penalty from DC treasury - ticket is now late so ticket doubles to 100 dollars - bank charges 25 dollar NSF fee. Parking ticket becomes 125 more expensive. I find this unacceptable. If post dated checks are no longer accepted, remove the date field from the check you follow? Here is a guy, bust his hump all year, takes his family up to Ocean City, parks his car, gets back a minute after the meter has expired and his car is impounded and towed across the county? I go to movies occasionally in Georgetown. I park down underneath K street sometimes, On two occasions I have seen cars being pulled from metered spaces. After a 'chat' with one of the towers, I was informed that you cannot park there after 10:00 PM, yet there is NO sign that states this. In my opinion all these situations are in varying degrees unreasonable, and any ruling body should be subject to checks and balances to prevent an abuse of power. I hope that everyone on the list had a wonderful holiday weekend. -----Original Message----- From: Jim McGonigle [mailto:jmcgonigle@XXXXXX] Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 10:39 AM To: Julian Halton; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: 2004 equals 1984 For parking tickets being late just get them the next time their car is found, tow it and impound it until paid. Don't allow license renewal, plate renewal, etc... I understand your concern as things escalate, but a little common sense (I know, I'm dreaming) would go far... -----Original Message----- From: Julian Halton [mailto:julian@XXXXXX] Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 10:27 AM To: Jim McGonigle; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: 2004 equals 1984 What I disagree with is draconian enforcement to the tune of having a lien placed on your vehicle. What's next, midnight raids on people that pay their parking tickets late?? -----Original Message----- From: Jim McGonigle [mailto:jmcgonigle@XXXXXX] Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 10:15 AM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: 2004 equals 1984 I'm sick of hearing about how people who don't pay what they owe are having their rights trampled on. Pay your f**king taxes and fees like the rest of us and you won't have issues. People who don't pay just make the rest of us pay more. If you want to rant, rant on the fact that the taxes are too high, mismanaged, too complicated, etc... Just getting worse now that the government needs to collect more money because they spend too much and they don't raise taxes, they just raise new and more confusing fees... Sorry, just a pet peeve. -Jim -----Original Message----- From: Julian Halton [mailto:julian@XXXXXX] Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 10:10 AM To: Paul Wilson; Dave Yates; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: 2004 equals 1984 I came across an article in the Washington Times about the use of a digital camera, connected to a laptop that Arlington county drones now take on roving patrol of parking lots...they sweep license plates and instantly the data brings up the registered owners info..If they owe taxes of any kind, the license plate is stripped from the car and a green lien\tow tag is placed on the vehicle. If I remember my history correctly, one of the founding events of this country was the Boston Tea party. When will people finally have enough of the Thought Police? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 2 13:57:43 2004 Subject: Bike story from lunch Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 13:57:35 -0400 From: "Julian Halton" To: Despite it being a beautiful day, I sigh wistfully look at my bike and take my workmate\friend Andrew to Shirlington in the cage. He has thus far put 60 miles on his SV 650 and is one of the converted. On the way back towards Ballston, just past the Lee highway exit there is an underpass. I see a bike and a dude by the side of the road, sitting calmly. I decide to stop and turns out that he has a non-running '02 FXDX Harley.. Go figure a Harley that does not work. JUST KIDDING guys... Anyway, I think about what to do, place a call into Coleman's, confirm they have a fully charged battery that fits to 1450cc 02 and the guy says he will pay me when we get back. Off we go, plunk down $94.00 cash and return to the scene...While we are helping Jay Lynn with his battery, a state trooper pulls up and the first thing he does is run the plates. He then approaches us warily and asks the LEO equivalent of what's up. We explain and he leaves shortly after. Jay tells me, that he had watched at least ten bikers pass him by without a second glance. He thanks us for the help and offers a few beers. He congratulated me on being a "biker" instead of a bike-owner. I had my rag on and fit the part. I refrained from telling him I rode an R6. Nice guy, with a good attitude and a wicked looking custom knife on his belt. He offered me some money for the trouble and I refused. Got the battery in and the Harley started with its familiar growl. A good experience, now hopefully, I don't take any smelly stuff from my boss for the lunch. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 2 15:09:22 2004 From: To: Subject: Re: Bike story from lunch Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 15:09:15 -0400 Good work Julian. That's what it's all about. -aki > > From: "Julian Halton" > Date: 2004/06/02 Wed PM 01:57:35 EDT > To: > Subject: Bike story from lunch > > > Despite it being a beautiful day, I sigh wistfully look at my bike and > take my workmate\friend Andrew to Shirlington in the cage. He has thus > far put 60 miles on his SV 650 and is one of the converted. On the way > back towards Ballston, just past the Lee highway exit there is an > underpass. I see a bike and a dude by the side of the road, sitting > calmly. I decide to stop and turns out that he has a non-running '02 > FXDX Harley.. Go figure a Harley that does not work. JUST KIDDING > guys... Anyway, I think about what to do, place a call into Coleman's, > confirm they have a fully charged battery that fits to 1450cc 02 and the > guy says he will pay me when we get back. Off we go, plunk down $94.00 > cash and return to the scene...While we are helping Jay Lynn with his > battery, a state trooper pulls up and the first thing he does is run the > plates. He then approaches us warily and asks the LEO equivalent of > what's up. We explain and he leaves shortly after. > > Jay tells me, that he had watched at least ten bikers pass him by > without a second glance. He thanks us for the help and offers a few > beers. He congratulated me on being a "biker" instead of a bike-owner. > I had my rag on and fit the part. I refrained from telling him I rode an > R6. Nice guy, with a good attitude and a wicked looking custom knife on > his belt. > He offered me some money for the trouble and I refused. Got the battery > in and the Harley started with its familiar growl. > > A good experience, now hopefully, I don't take any smelly stuff from my > boss for the lunch. > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 2 18:30:00 2004 Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 15:29:56 -0700 (PDT) From: dcpatti Subject: Re: DC vehicle laws To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" Just for anyone who has not heard... if you are trying to register a new bike (or car or etc) in DC and need paper tags, the only place you can get them now is on C Street. The branch offices don't do this any more, even if they are called a "full service" DMV on the phone or web site info. So there is no way to avoid a trip to C Street any more, unless you buy from a dealer and have the dealer do the tags, or get your inspection before you apply for tags--- which you can only accomplish by either borrowing current tags that belong on that bike from a private seller, or taking the bike in trailer/truck. The suck factor on this is very high! __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 2 20:14:41 2004 Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 20:13:23 -0400 (EDT) From: dan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Bike story from lunch On Wed, 2 Jun 2004, Julian Halton wrote: > cash and return to the scene...While we are helping Jay Lynn with his > battery, a state trooper pulls up and the first thing he does is run the > plates. He then approaches us warily and asks the LEO equivalent of > what's up. We explain and he leaves shortly after. > And can you blame him for checking to see if he is dealing with a felon? Otherwise, nice work, I always stop for a biker, well, sometimes slow as it seems many these days pull over to chat on the phone. Dan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 2 20:36:54 2004 From: "Thomas Jordan" To: Subject: RE: Bike story from lunch Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 20:36:50 -0400 This is what I love the most about this list. All of the stereotypes. Is a person previously convicted of a felony any more likely to cause problems while broken down beside the road than anyone else? Dan spewed: "And can you blame him for checking to see if he is dealing with a felon?" From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 2 21:22:52 2004 From: shanesr74@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: dc-cycles digest for 06/02/04 Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2004 01:22:40 +0000 X-Authenticated-Sender: c2hhbmVzcjc0QGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 I have a trailer that is good for bike hauling. small flat bed, hooks for tie downs. it is in eastern woodbridge. drop me a line at shanesr74@XXXXXX. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 2 22:20:11 2004 Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 19:20:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: RE: Bike story from lunch To: Thomas Jordan , dc-cycles@XXXXXX are we talking about a felon with a large knife around his belt, or without? --- Thomas Jordan wrote: > This is what I love the most about this list. All of the > stereotypes. Is a > person previously convicted of a felony any more likely > to cause problems > while broken down beside the road than anyone else? > > Dan spewed: > "And can you blame him for checking to see if he is > dealing with a felon?" > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 2 23:06:17 2004 Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 20:06:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: RE: Bike story from lunch To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Actually I think Dan should have said "dealing with a tax scofflaw to see if he can have his license plate taken and the bike towed" (or words to that effect :-) Now stereotypically, he may have meant the guy on the Harley or perhaps Julian, because of his "rag" (were you in a pick-up with an Easy Rider Rifle Rack "with room for not one but two of your favorite rifles"?) Carl --- Thomas Jordan wrote: > This is what I love the most about this list. All of the stereotypes. Is > a > person previously convicted of a felony any more likely to cause > problems > while broken down beside the road than anyone else? > > Dan spewed: > "And can you blame him for checking to see if he is dealing with a > felon?" > ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 3 01:14:21 2004 Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2004 01:16:11 -0400 To: "Thomas Jordan" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: Bike story from lunch Umm...yeah, if it was a violent felony. Past behavior may not be any guarantee of future results, but it is an indicator of the odds. Cops generally want to know as much as they can about anyone they deal with. Checking to see if a vehicle is stolen is a simple thing, and can save an officer's life on occasion. Vehicle thieves often do stupid things when cops show up...like run, shoot, etc.. If the vehicle was "car jacked", this is even more likely, as the suspect has already shown a recent tendency to violent stupidity. If I was the cop, I'd want to know about that tendency before I got out of my car and approached. Traffic stops are some of the more dangerous situations that cops deal with regularly, and a break down isn't too different from that in many ways. Also, how was it known what the cop was doing? Was it just an assumption? Perhaps the cop was just reporting in as to his location, the situation, and his intentions, in case something went wrong? That way the dispatcher could send help if the cop wasn't heard from again in a reasonable time frame. -- Mike B. At 08:36 PM 6/2/04 -0400, Thomas Jordan wrote: >This is what I love the most about this list. All of the stereotypes. Is a >person previously convicted of a felony any more likely to cause problems >while broken down beside the road than anyone else? > >Dan spewed: >"And can you blame him for checking to see if he is dealing with a felon?" > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 3 09:50:52 2004 Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 09:50:40 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Bike story from lunch On Wed, 2 Jun 2004, dan wrote: > Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 20:13:23 -0400 (EDT) > From: dan > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Bike story from lunch > > On Wed, 2 Jun 2004, Julian Halton wrote: > > cash and return to the scene...While we are helping Jay Lynn with his > > battery, a state trooper pulls up and the first thing he does is run the > > plates. He then approaches us warily and asks the LEO equivalent of > > what's up. We explain and he leaves shortly after. > > > > And can you blame him for checking to see if he is dealing with a felon? You meant to say, "checking to see if he's possibly dealing with a car which may belong to a felon" right? or "Checking to see if the car's/bike's tags and registration are current" or "Checking to see if the license plate matches the description of the car/bike" or since we probably don't know what actually went on in the police car, other than a possible use of the radio evidenced by the officer appearing to speak into a microphone before stepping out of the car, we might more logically presume that he was, per SOP, simply reporting his location and that he'd be stopping to check on a couple motorists by the side of the road and would be unavailable for a few minutes. Not every action by the police is big-brotherly. Some of it, they're just trying to make sure the get home alive at the end of thier shifts. -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 3 10:14:51 2004 Subject: RE: Bike story from lunch Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 10:14:23 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: Julian; Good on ya for stopping to help a fellow motorcyclist. Much more so than when driving a cage, breaking down at the side of the road can be a colossal PITA, and the number of folks who emulate the parable of the good Samaritan are dwindling. When I was a newbie rider, if a biker needed help, they would place their helmet on the ground, but now that good helmet handling practice recommends doing so when off the bike, I have stopped several times for motorcyclists that had pulled over to take a break or make a phone call... ;-/ Better to stop too many times than ignore someone that really could use assistance, I guess. To the comments on the LEO's actions and/or motivations; I tend to view with suspicion any individual drawn to a profession centered on carrying weapons and exercising authority over others. I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times an officer has stopped to offer assistance when I was changing a tire or checking under the hood at the side of the road, but I've lost count of the times I've been pulled over on harassing pretext stops for brake light out or similar minor infractions. Just as with any generalization, I am sure there are good apples in the barrel, but the fraction of persons exemplifying the ideal of "Protect and Serve" is almost nil. Yep, I'd tend to suspect the worst when an LOE stops and stays in vehicle for a while before approaching. Robert From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 3 10:21:24 2004 Subject: Bike story from lunch Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 10:21:18 -0400 From: "Julian Halton" To: "Verde, Robert" , Well I was going to add that what the cop did was standard operating procedure. I don't hold it against him in anyway at all. I did notice that his body language and approach was very wary, more than I have ever seen when being pulled over for speeding in a car- not that I would have any experience with that. I did not mean to write editorially and provide the image of the cop as negative....ultimately he was doing his job and he did pull over. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 3 10:22:31 2004 Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2004 10:22:22 -0400 From: Brian Roach To: "Verde, Robert" CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Bike story from lunch Verde, Robert wrote: > To the comments on the LEO's actions and/or motivations; I tend to view with suspicion any individual drawn to a profession centered on carrying weapons and exercising authority over others. I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times an officer has stopped to offer assistance when I was changing a tire or checking under the hood at the side of the road, but I've lost count of the times I've been pulled over on harassing pretext stops for brake light out or similar minor infractions. I have to agree here. Time and time again, I see people broken down on the side of the highway, and a cop just blows on by without even a second look. WTF? Isn't it their job to help people in distress? They're very happy to sit by the side of the road and "protect" us from people driving 10mph over the speed limit though. One thing I have noted since moving out of the DC metro area though ... it's not like that everywhere (in terms of cops not helping). Here in Dover I routinely see the police stopping to assist motorists, which is a nice change. They also just generally seem nicer overall. - Roach -- http://www.speedwerks.com The one-stop shop for all your motorcycling needs! (302) 672 - 7223 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 3 10:24:09 2004 From: rjmoran@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: FS: 2001 GSX-R600 Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2004 14:24:01 +0000 X-Authenticated-Sender: cmptb3JhbkBjb21jYXN0Lm5ldA== Posting this for a friend; don't email me about this, please. Blue and White, stock everything, slightly scuffed on right fairing. Runs perfectly. 2000 miles $4700 OBO Call Herb 703.727.3861 or email hlc104@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 3 10:30:05 2004 Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 10:29:59 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Bike story from lunch On Thu, 3 Jun 2004, Verde, Robert wrote: > > To the comments on the LEO's actions and/or motivations; I believe there's a big difference between a "law enforcement officer" and a "police officer." The LEO is there to enforce laws. The police officer is the guy who's there to "protect and serve." JMO, of course. -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 3 10:38:48 2004 Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 10:38:41 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: RE: Bike story from lunch To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >To the comments on the LEO's actions and/or motivations; I tend to view with suspicion any individual drawn to a profession centered on carrying weapons and exercising authority over others. I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times an officer has stopped to offer assistance when I was changing a tire or checking under the hood at the side of the road, but I've lost count of the times I've been pulled over on harassing pretext stops for brake light out or similar minor infractions. [Dave] I'm not sure about MD, but I think you have to either 1: call for help or 2: be a scantily clad woman of astounding beauty for a cop to stop and help. In VA, I've had and seen several cops - State, and FFX county stop to ask if assistance was needed, offer to call for a tow truck or the like. I don't know - or care - if they ran my plates. Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 3 10:40:03 2004 From: "Wesleyan Hsu" To: "'DC Cycles'" Subject: FS: 1996 Honda CBR900RR Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 10:39:55 -0400 Red, 9800 miles, D&D, bra, garaged, looks and runs great $4500 obo Call Wes at 703.608.2199 or email at wes@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 3 10:45:46 2004 To: DC Cycles From: Sunil Doshi Subject: Follow-up to "The Mother of All Parking Tickets" Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 10:45:43 -0400 I've been meaning to post a follow-up to my parking ticket quandary that I sent to the list a while back (copied at the bottom of this message). I went to fight the ticket in court. The Magistrate heard my argument and said that I was in the right. The motorcycle parking on that street is a "pocket" of parking during rush hour... while cars can't park on that street between 4-6:30, motorcycles can park between the signs during that time. I have a creeping feeling that this may change any day. I was still a little hesitant to park there after getting a ticket for $100, but I started again because of how convenient it is. I figure I'll make a copy of the ruling and send it to the city if they nab me again. Thanks to everyone who offered their advice... >>> BEGIN ORIGINAL POST <<< Starting a few weeks ago, I began parking at a new set of motorcycle spaces on M St. between Vermont and 15th (at least new to me). I've been parking there and dutifully paying the meter for a few weeks now. Last night, when I left work around 6:00 and went out to the bike, I found a ticket waiting for me. I imagined it was for the fact that the bike has been in the same spot for more than 4 hours. I always pay the meter, but I was going to wait for the first ticket before I started the 4-hour cycle of moving the bike a space over. I was shocked when I opened it and saw a fine for $100. There are probably some moving violations that cost less than that. What was I charged with? No Stopping/Standing During Rush Hour (4-6:30PM). I did not knowingly park there during rush hour. The signs that flanked the motorcycle spaces only said "4 Hour Parking, Motorcycles Only, 7AM-6:30PM, Monday-Friday." (shown at the URLs below) They didn't have any additional sign on the same pole, indicating the rush hour restriction. Other signs further down the street, near car parking, did say such a thing, but I had only taken notice of the signs near where I'm parking. Does anyone know if there should have been additional signage to indicate the rush hour restriction? Or am I out $100? http://widepipe.org/images/misc/parking1.jpg http://widepipe.org/images/misc/parking2.jpg >>> END ORIGINAL POST <<< sunil http://widepipe.org/ride/ '03 Honda Shadow ACE 750 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 3 10:50:06 2004 Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 07:49:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Follow-up to "The Mother of All Parking Tickets" To: Sunil Doshi , DC Cycles Good for you! I do hope they nix the motorcycle parking during rush hour when the rest of the street is cleared of cars. This is a big problem in DC when people park in lanes reserved for rush hour driving. It backs traffic up terribly. Also, I would not want to have my bike parked in a lane otherwise used for driving. --- Sunil Doshi wrote: > I've been meaning to post a follow-up to my parking > ticket quandary > that I sent to the list a while back (copied at the > bottom of this > message). > > I went to fight the ticket in court. The Magistrate > heard my argument > and said that I was in the right. The motorcycle > parking on that street > is a "pocket" of parking during rush hour... while > cars can't park on > that street between 4-6:30, motorcycles can park > between the signs > during that time. I have a creeping feeling that > this may change any > day. > > I was still a little hesitant to park there after > getting a ticket for > $100, but I started again because of how convenient > it is. I figure > I'll make a copy of the ruling and send it to the > city if they nab me > again. > > Thanks to everyone who offered their advice... > > > > >>> BEGIN ORIGINAL POST <<< > > Starting a few weeks ago, I began parking at a new > set of motorcycle > spaces on M St. between Vermont and 15th (at least > new to me). I've > been parking there and dutifully paying the meter > for a few weeks now. > > Last night, when I left work around 6:00 and went > out to the bike, I > found a ticket waiting for me. I imagined it was for > the fact that the > bike has been in the same spot for more than 4 > hours. I always pay the > meter, but I was going to wait for the first ticket > before I started > the 4-hour cycle of moving the bike a space over. I > was shocked when I > opened it and saw a fine for $100. There are > probably some moving > violations that cost less than that. What was I > charged with? No > Stopping/Standing During Rush Hour (4-6:30PM). > > I did not knowingly park there during rush hour. The > signs that flanked > the motorcycle spaces only said "4 Hour Parking, > Motorcycles Only, > 7AM-6:30PM, Monday-Friday." (shown at the URLs > below) They didn't have > any additional sign on the same pole, indicating the > rush hour > restriction. Other signs further down the street, > near car parking, did > say such a thing, but I had only taken notice of the > signs near where > I'm parking. > > Does anyone know if there should have been > additional signage to > indicate the rush hour restriction? Or am I out > $100? > > http://widepipe.org/images/misc/parking1.jpg > http://widepipe.org/images/misc/parking2.jpg > > >>> END ORIGINAL POST <<< > > > > sunil > http://widepipe.org/ride/ > '03 Honda Shadow ACE 750 > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 3 10:55:42 2004 Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 10:55:23 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: Mark Kitchell , Sunil Doshi , DC Cycles Subject: Re: Follow-up to "The Mother of All Parking Tickets" -----Original Message----- From: Mark Kitchell Good for you! I do hope they nix the motorcycle parking during rush hour when the rest of the street is cleared of cars. This is a big problem in DC when people park in lanes reserved for rush hour driving. It backs traffic up terribly. Also, I would not want to have my bike parked in a lane otherwise used for driving. --- Sunil Doshi wrote: > I went to fight the ticket in court. The Magistrate > heard my argument > and said that I was in the right. ----------------- Cynic alert! Cynic alert! The system actually worked. :) It does seems a little odd that they would have designated MC parking in a lane that's supposed to be cleared for rush hour traffic, but if the signs are there..... Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 3 12:28:28 2004 Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2004 12:22:25 -0400 From: Skip To: sabmag , DC Cycles , SOAR Subject: Tirerack.com this is slightly off topic, since they don't sell MC tires, but I think a good seller is a good seller, and most of us have cages as well. I ordered two tires for my cage on Wednesday at noon. they had what I needed at about 1/3 the price of local quotes. At 2:15 I got a mail saying my order had been released for shipping. My tires arrived Thursday afternoon. 27 hours from internet order to my door. Now *that* is stellar service. so I sent them a thankyou note. they responded that they appreciate getting letters like that. I just got an order confirmation that they're sending me a digital tire gauge, gratis. --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 3 12:45:50 2004 Subject: LEO vs. PO (Was: RE: Bike story from lunch) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 12:45:41 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Daniel H. Brown" , I would hope there was a difference, but I think it's more of a 'distinction without a difference', if you follow my meaning. Just out of idle curiousity, I Googled "law enforcement degree" and then "police science degree." Rough results; 933 versus 279. Looking the results for police science, though, most of the descriptions described the degree as a precursor to a career in law enforcement... I'm way off topic now, though, so sincere apologies to the list for soap-box orating. Off box now. ;-) Robert -----Original Message----- From: Daniel H. Brown [mailto:brown@XXXXXX] Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 10:30 AM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Bike story from lunch On Thu, 3 Jun 2004, Verde, Robert wrote: > > To the comments on the LEO's actions and/or motivations; I believe there's a big difference between a "law enforcement officer" and a "police officer." The LEO is there to enforce laws. The police officer is the guy who's there to "protect and serve." JMO, of course. -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 3 13:55:53 2004 Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 10:55:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Ray Subject: MC Parking @ Carter Barron Amphitheatre To: DC Cycles I thought someone on the list mentioned it. Is there any? How quickly does it fill up? I'm planning on seeing the shakespeare play there saturday night. I understand the regular parking fills up quickly, so was thinking of taking the bandit. Thanks, Brian __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 3 14:41:30 2004 Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 11:41:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Another article on US 211 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Forwarded from a friend: Click on "Motorcycle Mayhem" http://www.shenandoah.com/frame/default.cfm?location=http%3A//www.dnronline.com/pnc.html Glenn __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 3 14:57:47 2004 Subject: RE: Another article on US 211 Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 14:57:16 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Glenn Dysart" , Enjoyed this passage; "Shaw and Lewis enjoy riding Harley's. They agree that sports bikes are dangerous vehicles. "Those are dangerous bikes," Shaw said. "They are so low and the drivers are always leaning so far over on the curves." In the interests of disclosure, I have only ridden up/over 211 once, I prefer getting on the BRP at Front Royal. Robert -----Original Message----- From: Glenn Dysart [mailto:glenn_dysart@XXXXXX] Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 2:41 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Another article on US 211 Forwarded from a friend: Click on "Motorcycle Mayhem" http://www.shenandoah.com/frame/default.cfm?location=http%3A//www.dnronline.com/pnc.html Glenn From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 3 15:02:20 2004 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Glenn Dysart , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Another article on US 211 Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 15:04:26 -0400 Man that article is just so wrong. >"These racing style bikes have aerodynamics that are made to hug curves," >Settle said. "We typically don)B’t have problems with Harley Davidson bikes. >It)B’s the little fast bikes." Aerodynamics that are made to huge the curves??? I have seem some people on standards or cruisers (Moto Guzzi) make quick work out of some twisties. I think he meant we don't have problems with Cruisers, I think the "Crotch Rocket" companies make Harley clones don't they? >"Those are dangerous bikes," Shaw said. "They are so low and the drivers are >always leaning so far over on the curves." I am sick to my stomach. Rob On Thu, 3 Jun 2004 11:41:26 -0700 (PDT), Glenn Dysart wrote > Forwarded from a friend: > > Click on "Motorcycle Mayhem" > > http://www.shenandoah.com/frame/default.cfm?location=http%3A//www.dnronline.com/pnc.html > > Glenn > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. > http://messenger.yahoo.com/ -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 3 15:10:52 2004 Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2004 15:04:50 -0400 From: Skip CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Another article on US 211 this one is funny, too... "These racing style bikes have aerodynamics that are made to hug curves," Settle said. last time I checked, aerodynamics don't make you corner any better... --skip, steering clear of 211 "Verde, Robert" wrote: > > Enjoyed this passage; > > "Shaw and Lewis enjoy riding Harley's. They agree that sports bikes are dangerous vehicles. > > "Those are dangerous bikes," Shaw said. "They are so low and the drivers are always leaning so far over on the curves." > > > > In the interests of disclosure, I have only ridden up/over 211 once, I prefer getting on the BRP at Front Royal. > > Robert > > -----Original Message----- > From: Glenn Dysart [mailto:glenn_dysart@XXXXXX] > Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 2:41 PM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Another article on US 211 > > Forwarded from a friend: > > Click on "Motorcycle Mayhem" > > http://www.shenandoah.com/frame/default.cfm?location=http%3A//www.dnronline.com/pnc.html > > Glenn From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 3 15:36:00 2004 Subject: RE: Another article on US 211 Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 15:35:50 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: I wonder if any actual Rappahannock County Harley riders, such as Mr. Kreyling (cited for riding his Harley in the nude) had been approached for information by the writer of Motorcycle Mayhem. http://www.bikernet.com/rights/archive.asp?Article=111703 (Lower half) http://www.zwire.com/site/tab4.cfm?newsid=10329008&BRD=2553&PAG=461&dept_id=506086&rfi=6 Robert -----Original Message----- From: Skip [mailto:skip@XXXXXX] Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 3:05 PM Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Another article on US 211 this one is funny, too... "These racing style bikes have aerodynamics that are made to hug curves," Settle said. last time I checked, aerodynamics don't make you corner any better... --skip, steering clear of 211 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 3 15:37:43 2004 Subject: RE: Another article on US 211 Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 15:37:35 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: Textbook case of how *not* to write up a story. All the quotes and interviews come from groups or individuals favorable to the announced crackdown, nary a dissenting voice is to be heard. Looks like Jamie Turner (byline) just phoned this one in, not even a token visit to the road in question to see for him/herself. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that the "reputable rider sources" were suggested to Jamie by friendly Sheriff Presgraves. Or maybe "according to Sgt. Gary Settle, Public Information Officer for the Virginia State Police." Bleahhh. Robert -----Original Message----- From: Rob Sharp [mailto:rob@XXXXXX] Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 3:04 PM To: Glenn Dysart; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Another article on US 211 Man that article is just so wrong. >"These racing style bikes have aerodynamics that are made to hug curves," >Settle said. "We typically don't have problems with Harley Davidson bikes. >It's the little fast bikes." Aerodynamics that are made to huge the curves??? I have seem some people on standards or cruisers (Moto Guzzi) make quick work out of some twisties. I think he meant we don't have problems with Cruisers, I think the "Crotch Rocket" companies make Harley clones don't they? >"Those are dangerous bikes," Shaw said. "They are so low and the drivers are >always leaning so far over on the curves." I am sick to my stomach. Rob From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 3 15:39:57 2004 Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 12:39:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Adam Reinhardt Subject: Re: Another article on US 211 To: Rob Sharp , dc-cycles@XXXXXX While I dislike the generalization that the article engages in, I also have a major problem with the competitive aspect of sportbike group riding. Pushing hard on the streets is just plain dumb, and the consequences as we all know are way too high. If I lived along 211, I would get tired of hearing ambulances run up and down the mountain on weekends. I would also feel angered knowing that my tax dollars were going towards supporting a bunch of city-slicker image-concious sportbike street-racers. I went on a couple large internet-based sportbike group rides a few years ago and the attitute and recklessness I witnessed there were enough to discourage me from ever attending one again. Now I know full well that not all sportbike riders are irresponsible and not all sportbike riders are pushing it 100% on public roads ... but from what I've seen firt hand, enough people are riding this way to warrant the bad reputation that sportbikers carry. BTW you won't find me on 211 or any other similar road as I've given up street riding for the time being. I'd rather get my kicks on the track. Sure its more expensive and less impromptu, but then again I've crashed at close to 100mph and walked away. As some mentioned earlier, try doing that on 211. Adam --- Rob Sharp wrote: > Man that article is just so wrong. > > >"These racing style bikes have aerodynamics that > are made to hug curves," > >Settle said. "We typically don)B’t have problems with > Harley Davidson bikes. > >It)B’s the little fast bikes." > > Aerodynamics that are made to huge the curves??? I > have seem some people on > standards or cruisers (Moto Guzzi) make quick work > out of some twisties. > > I think he meant we don't have problems with > Cruisers, I think the "Crotch > Rocket" companies make Harley clones don't they? > > >"Those are dangerous bikes," Shaw said. "They are > so low and the drivers are > >always leaning so far over on the curves." > > I am sick to my stomach. > > Rob > > > > > On Thu, 3 Jun 2004 11:41:26 -0700 (PDT), Glenn > Dysart wrote > > Forwarded from a friend: > > > > Click on "Motorcycle Mayhem" > > > > > http://www.shenandoah.com/frame/default.cfm?location=http%3A//www.dnronline.com/pnc.html > > > > Glenn > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. > > http://messenger.yahoo.com/ > > > -- > Rob Sharp > 1996 Honda VFR 750 > 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme > SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA > Network Security Engineer > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 3 16:52:49 2004 Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 16:52:37 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: pagenews@XXXXXX cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: "Motorcycle Mayhem" To: pagenews@XXXXXX To the Editor of the Page News and Courier, I am a motorcyclist who lives in Arlington Virginia, and have enjoyed visiting that area in the past, both on by motorcycle and with other vehicles. I personally try to ride legally and safely, within the limits of my abilities and the abilities of my vehicles. My current ride is a BMW R1150 RT, which while not specifically designed as a sport bike, is a well-engineered, capable machine. I realize that in any group there will likely be a few scofflaws who can make the situation bad for all involved. I personally choose not to be one of those people. I just read the June 3, 2004 story titled _Motorcyle Mayhem_. While I applaud your ability to select sensational article headlines, I find the substance of the article to be almost completely lacking in real factual content. This sloppy, negligent style of reporting shows a willful lack of understanding and discredits your paper as well as the sources you quote. While sport motorcycles are, in very broad, general terms, engineered for quicker handling and higher speeds, you are remiss to include quotes such as "These racing style bikes have aerodynamics that are made to hug curves," without having done some actual research, and having included some background about the physics by which motorcycles operate. Aerodynamics has little to nothing to do with how well these vehicles hug curves, rather, mechanical handling and cornering ability is affected to a larger degree by frame geometry, suspension setup and tire compounds. Next, while you include several quotes about having had little to no trouble with Harley Davidson motorcycles - a make, rather than a specific type of bike - you include no actual statistics about how many of each type of vehicle actually uses and or has been involved in accidents along these roads. You completely fail to report on the road usage by other types of motorcycles, such as cruisers, touring bikes, and so forth. You appear to report only sensational, circumstantial hearsay about the stereotypical "crotch rockets." It is my hope that these sorts of off-the-cuff "facts" are not the ones used by the quoted law enforcement officers in courts of law, and are not the basis of policies by which they profile users of the roads as a means of selective, arbitrary enforcement. Next, I take issue with the xenophobic stance demonstrated by the statement "There are very few locals doing this." Your paper again, fails to include any actual road use statistics, whether by locals or visitors from other areas. And, while places like Pennsylvania, Maryland, Washington, D.C may not seem local to you, it seems short sighted to drive away people who come from these not very distant locations to visit and spend money at the businesses in the area. Finally, if Mr. Presgraves is actually serious about addressing this "problem," perhaps he could comment on his views about rider education and training, or sponsoring organized events which encourage safe, recreational sightseeing types of rides, or on promoting the use of facilities such as Virginia International Speedway and Summit Point, and so on. It is my opinion that these sorts of knee jerk enforcement efforts do little to actually improve the perceived problem, rather serve largely as revenue generation and political promotion. Do they help sell newspapers too? In conclusion, based on reading this article, I feel your paper is more concerned with the sensational aspects of this story than any sort of factual reporting. I personally plan to not be visiting that area any longer, whether by motorcycle or other means. Dan Brown. Arlington, VA. -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 3 16:53:12 2004 Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 13:53:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Hugh Caldwell Subject: Re: Another article on US 211 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Which hardly explains the harley rider Glenn and I saw planted facedown in a pool of blood on 211 a few weeks ago. --- Rob Sharp wrote: > > > I think he meant we don't have problems with Cruisers, I think the "Crotch > Rocket" companies make Harley clones don't they? > > >"Those are dangerous bikes," Shaw said. "They are so low and the drivers are > >always leaning so far over on the curves." > ===== Hugh Caldwell http://www.twowheelsgood.net __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 3 17:13:57 2004 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Adam Reinhardt , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Another article on US 211 Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 17:16:01 -0400 On Thu, 3 Jun 2004 12:39:50 -0700 (PDT), Adam Reinhardt wrote > While I dislike the generalization that the article > engages in, It's not generalizations it's just plain false information and shows the author had no interest in writing an accurate article let alone a object article. >I also have a major problem with the > competitive aspect of sportbike group riding. Pushing > hard on the streets is just plain dumb, and the > consequences as we all know are way too high. If I > lived along 211, I would get tired of hearing > ambulances run up and down the mountain on weekends. > I would also feel angered knowing that my tax dollars > were going towards supporting a bunch of city-slicker > image-concious sportbike street-racers. I do too and last time I went to 211 with other bikers I ended up about 10 minutes behind them cause I rode at my own pace and I had a bike that could definetly keep up. I agree that you get some people on a sports bike and they act wreckless but the sports bike crowd generalization stuff aside. The article is just complete crap. As for the whole police dragnet on 211, they should stop the people breaking the law and not stop everyone who is riding a "Sport Bike" also known as Crotch Rockets, yee haw. Rob > I went on a couple large internet-based sportbike > group rides a few years ago and the attitute and > recklessness I witnessed there were enough to > discourage me from ever attending one again. Now I > know full well that not all sportbike riders are > irresponsible and not all sportbike riders are pushing > it 100% on public roads ... but from what I've seen > firt hand, enough people are riding this way to > warrant the bad reputation that sportbikers carry. > > BTW you won't find me on 211 or any other similar road > as I've given up street riding for the time being. > I'd rather get my kicks on the track. Sure its more > expensive and less impromptu, but then again I've > crashed at close to 100mph and walked away. As some > mentioned earlier, try doing that on 211. > > Adam From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 3 18:03:25 2004 Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 15:03:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Ryan Santoso Subject: 211 in general To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I've been on 211 a few times and all of the publicity and spotlight it has received has made me steer away from it. From the DC area, there are far too many wonderful roads that are just as good and less crowded. Some roads just short of the DC area such as Berkley Springs, Mt. Storm, etc etc to me are far better than 211 if you account the crowd, the gestapo factor, and just some of the high squidly factor on 211. My two cents. Ryan Santoso __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 3 18:31:06 2004 Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 15:30:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Page County newspaper on 211 Hoo boy, there are enough whoppers and non-sequiturs in this article to keep me busy fisking away it all evening. Let's hit the "highlights." ------------- Thursday, June 3, 2004 Motorcycle mayhem Increase in accidents sparks police crackdown By Jamie Turner Staff Writer Page County roads are becoming widely known as one of the best motorcycle tracks on the East Coast. ['Tis true, although you might want to Google up "Deal's Gap" before hitting the hyperbole button.] On any given weekend a vast number of motorcyclists can be seen hugging the curves on sports bikes speeding up the Blue Ridge Mountain between Page and Rappahannock counties. [I prefer to carve corners and hug waitresses. YMMV.] Page is even listed on the Internet as one of the best places to ride the agile sports bikes, according to Sgt. Gary Settle, Public Information Officer for the Virginia State Police. A biker enthusiast Web site also includes times and dates police are likely to be patrolling the area. [The Internet no less. See, I told you it was the Devil's invention.] In the last several years the State Police, along with the Page and Rappahannock sheriff's departments, noted an increase in the number of motorcycle crashes on the mountain. Combined with an increase in citizen complaints about motorcycles racing up U.S. 211 through Thornton Gap, police are beginning a crack down on the speedsters. "We are dealing with a considerable amount of complaints this time of year about motorcycles racing up the mountain from Rappahannock to Page," said Page Sheriff Daniel W. Presgraves. "We had several fatalities last year and we want to be proactive and step up enforcement." [Proactive? Hmm. I guess that following holds true. Get rid of motorcycles and there will be no motorcycle crashes. Works well with other vehicle types as well. As in, get rid of SUVs and there will be no SUV crashes, etc., etc.] ... Speed was a factor in both weekend wrecks. In both, the drivers were riding sports bikes (also known as crotch rockets). [I fully expect Harleys in the rest of the piece to be referred to as "road sofas." Fortunately, "rice burner" appears to not be in this reporter's lexicon.] Settle said most of the crashes on the mountain involve sports bikes. "These racing style bikes have aerodynamics that are made to hug curves," Settle said. "We typically don't have problems with Harley Davidson bikes. It's the little fast bikes." [This ill-informed man gets paid for opining for the press on behalf on the VSP? Aerodynamics, rrright. Short wheelbase and high peg clearance has nothing whatsoever to do with it, it's that flashy plastic dontchaknow.] Carl Shaw and Ronnie Lewis of Richmond both own Harley's and ride to Luray about three or four times a year. Between them the two men have about 55 years experience riding motorcycles. They don't travel to Page County for the curvy mountain blacktop. They say it's a nice day trip with beautiful scenery along the way. [Uh-huh. If they don't like curvy blacktop, why not stay in Richmond?] "We like the scenery up here," Shaw said. "The mountains are beautiful." Shaw and Lewis enjoy riding Harley's (sic). They agree that sports (sic) bikes are dangerous vehicles. [No more dangerous than the lump of living flesh on the seat.] "Those are dangerous bikes," Shaw said. "They are so low and the drivers are always leaning so far over on the curves." [Low? I gather Shaw's never swung a leg over one. Leaning over? Land sakes, Myrtle, I do believe that biker's leaning over. I ain't never seen that on a Harley!] Settle added that some drivers have little experience on motorcycles before hopping on the racing bikes. [Racing or sports (sic) bikes? Get your terminology straight. Hmmm, I run across a few scary "experienced" riders who own 800-pound road sofas. You know, the ones who can't pilot a 250 cc training bike across a parking lot at walking speed.] The DMV has also approved a grant to help fund the project, which will pay overtime to officers on patrol. [Think about that, folks, the next time your local DMV office is closed on a Saturday.] Presgraves added that most of the bikers using the mountain as a racetrack are not local citizens. "There are very few locals doing this," Presgraves said. "We have people that come here from Pennsylvania, Maryland, Washington, D.C., and all over to ride this mountain." [Last time I checked freedom of travel was still a valued concept in the US of A. This is a notice that the local folks need not worry about what their local law enforcers are up to.] ... Settle said the main allure of U.S. 211 is the sharp curves. [Let me guess, Settle doesn't get out much, does he.] "It is a mountain that is rated very high to ride the racing bikes," Settle said. "And it's a mountain that has a lot of curves. Bikers get caught up in the curves and there is absolutely no room for error." Settle and Presgraves said police will have more checking details along the stretch of road this year. They are hoping this will cut down on the number of crashes on the mountain. [Notice that harassment of motorists is now a valid traffic safety strategy.] "We feel like if we show them we are going to take this seriously they might >>relocate<< before they endanger one of our citizens," Presgraves said. "Enforcement will be on a random basis, but we are serious about addressing this problem." [Like I said a couple of days ago, move the problem on to someone else's jurisdiction and away from my voters. Then your dutiful sheriff can pat himself on the back for having done "something."] Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 3 19:58:25 2004 Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 16:58:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Lurking Subject: Should you see me To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Hey Cyclists, My commute recently changed from Fair Lakes to Reston. I now commute Fair Lakes to Rosslyn. (still stuck on the two syllable R destinations) Anyway, I see a helluva lot more bikers now that I travel I66 HOV both ways ;) You may be able to identify me by my old Radian (purple) and my (full face) Shoei black helmet with Silver/White graphics. I also ALWAYS where a Teknic textile jacket (black with silver and gray trim). It's already saved me from major road rash when I low-sided last summer (when it was 90 degrees out). It's hard to keep the black jacket on at that temperature, but I hope I never grow dumb enough to doff my upper body protection. Still need a good pair of textile pants (or full Aerostich)... Anyway, I'm usually headed east to Rosslyn around 6:30-7am, and headed back west around 3:30-4pm. So give a wave and say hello to a fellow dc-cyclist... Today I rode with a Valkyrie in front and a Harley behind for about 5 miles westbound (around 4:40'ish). For a change the Harley rider was MORE protected. I think he had on a DOT stamped helmet and a full leather jacket. The Valkyrie rider was in business casual dress, wingtip shoes, no gloves, and a small (however unknown DOT approval) helmet. The looked a lot more comfortable (riding position wise) then I am on my skinny seat, naked, standard (that's way too small for me, I now realize). I'm 6'3, 240lbs, with about 32 1/2" inseam. The seat height on the Radian is about 29" (if not lower) and the foot pegs are straight down. It leaves me with a rather, knee above the butt, hilarious posture. Sigh, use your imagination here folks... The bike is tiny compared to me (but fun as hell anyway). Anyway, I shared a bit about myself. See you out on the roads; wave back please! -Kipp. ===== "If we cannot live so as to be happy, let us least live so as to deserve it." - Immanuel Hermann Fichte (1797-1879) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 3 20:04:00 2004 From: "W.S." To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: Bike story from lunch Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 20:03:38 -0400 From: dan On Wed, 2 Jun 2004, Julian Halton wrote: > cash and return to the scene...While we are helping Jay Lynn with his > battery, a state trooper pulls up and the first thing he does is run the > plates. He then approaches us warily and asks the LEO equivalent of > what's up. We explain and he leaves shortly after. > And can you blame him for checking to see if he is dealing with a felon? Otherwise, nice work, I always stop for a biker, well, sometimes slow as it seems many these days pull over to chat on the phone. Dan ********** While my decision to stop for car/bike usually evokes a bunch of thinking, my first reaction is to toot and give a questioning "thumbs up." A couple of weekends ago that digit was well exercised, with no negative responses. If on the Beltway, etc., for trouble I'd probably pull over far down the road and phone the police (*77, etc.) As I recall, there is a (sparsely known?) signal for a troubled bike -- believe it's "helmet on the ground in back" (open to correction). Always kudos to those that offer help, Dan and Julian. Bill S. / DC '99 VN750 > So far, ailings have shown while parked. Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 3 20:08:56 2004 From: "W.S." To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: MC Parking @ Carter Barron Amphitheatre Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 20:08:40 -0400 From: Brian Ray I thought someone on the list mentioned it. Is there any? How quickly does it fill up? . . .snip ******** Have squeezed into crooks and nannies close to entrance of choice several times, once with gendarme guidance. Bill S. / DC '99 VN750 > No visible door dings on me yet. Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 3 20:08:58 2004 Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2004 20:11:10 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Dan Brown Subject: Huh... Well... that "Settles" it: http://www.vsp.state.va.us/news2003-12.htm I believe I may have a couple more emails to write... :-) -- Resist or Serve From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 3 20:24:34 2004 From: "Gary Foreman" To: "'Glenn Dysart'" , Subject: RE: Another article on US 211 Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 20:27:47 -0400 I'll say it again, if they just enforced the 55 speed they already had, it would be safer. It's the 70+ guys that cause the problems. 55 across there is still a pretty good ride. -----Original Message----- From: Glenn Dysart [mailto:glenn_dysart@XXXXXX] Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 2:41 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Another article on US 211 Forwarded from a friend: Click on "Motorcycle Mayhem" http://www.shenandoah.com/frame/default.cfm?location=http%3A//www.dnronline. com/pnc.html Glenn __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 3 21:15:45 2004 From: "W.S." To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: "Motorcycle Mayhem" Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 21:15:34 -0400 From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: pagenews@XXXXXX To the Editor of the Page News and Courier, I am a motorcyclist who lives in Arlington Virginia, and have enjoyed visiting that area in the past, both on by motorcycle and with other vehicles. I personally try to ride legally and safely, within the limits of my abilities and the abilities of my vehicles. . . .snip ******** A pleasure to see this (nicely timed!). While 211/sportbike issues generally pass by me and my mid-cruiser, they do cast their shadow. My two cents is encouragement for more of the likes of the above, *and*, for a real promotional emphasis on the likes of the grabbing and vivid "crashed at speed at the track and walked" lister comments that urban rocket riders can surely wrap their egos around: Lisa -- "Going at least 80mph on turn 7 at Beaver Run. I hit the ripples and the front wheel washed out from under me and went-a-slidin'! My right thumb feels about 95%, I can tell something is just a little sore when I use my hand to write. Typing and motorcycle riding are no problem. My bum feels like I fell down ice-skating or skiing. Other than that, I feel absolutely fine and fully intend to continue to commute on my street bike all week." And Brian -- > tucking the > front in T6 which is about 60mph. Bike slid to a stop in the run-off > area. Damage: A bar end slider, a foot peg slider, and a brake lever. > Maybe a frame slider, but it's not too worn down. There is a slight > scuff on the bodywork, but it's not bad at all. > > Try that on 211 into the armco (or into a ravine), let me know what > parts you need :D :D :D More of this in MSF courses or licensing materials or other bikelit would seem to help further champion those "racetrack it" thoughts often promoted. Is this new? Hardly. But maybe due for a boost. Bill S. / DC '99 VN750 > Want to retire as a track bunny. Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 3 23:07:52 2004 From: "rich hall" To: DC-Cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Bike story from lunch Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2004 23:07:43 -0400 Thought the signal for help was the helmet behind the front wheel? Although it seems that would be harder to spot underneath the bike. Last weekend I was out riding, rider on the side of the road, rode up slow, giving a thumbs up, he returned it. 50' later the road turned to gravel, think I learned why he was stopped. >From: "W.S." >To: "DC-Cycles" >Subject: Re: Bike story from lunch >Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 20:03:38 -0400 >While my decision to stop for car/bike usually evokes a bunch of thinking, >my first reaction is to toot and give a questioning "thumbs up." A couple >of weekends ago that digit was well exercised, with no negative responses. >If on the Beltway, etc., for trouble I'd probably pull over far down the >road and phone the police (*77, etc.) > >As I recall, there is a (sparsely known?) signal for a troubled bike -- >believe it's "helmet on the ground in back" (open to correction). _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee)B® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 4 07:20:07 2004 Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 04:20:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: Another article on US 211 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Ugh, I'm so bored of these posts... Glenn --- Adam Reinhardt wrote: > BTW you won't find me on 211 or any other similar > road > as I've given up street riding for the time being. > I'd rather get my kicks on the track. Sure its more > expensive and less impromptu, but then again I've > crashed at close to 100mph and walked away. As some > mentioned earlier, try doing that on 211. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 4 07:48:07 2004 From: To: DC-Cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Bike story from lunch Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 7:48:00 -0400 > > From: "rich hall" > Date: 2004/06/03 Thu PM 11:07:43 EDT > To: DC-Cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Bike story from lunch > > Thought the signal for help was the helmet behind the front wheel? ...actually it's behind the *back* wheel I believe. Much easier to see when you're coming up on a bike on the side of the road. You may not see the helmet in the front of the bike until you're past them. -aki From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 4 10:08:41 2004 Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 07:08:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Steve Noe Subject: FS: '86 Yam SRX600S Thumper and '71 Triumph Bonneville Engine To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Greetings, If there are more appropriate regional groups to post this info, let me know. I own both items and have digital pix for those interested. The Yamaha is a Canadian import, Maryland registered and ridden. Yellow, SuperTrapp, Safety wired for the track, new chain, sprockets, and front brake pads. Runs strong, Steve at Myers took it around the block and said it is one of the better examples of this bike he has ridden. Asking $2k 1971 Triumph Bonneville engine complete (no carbs). Fins fine. Good compression. Asking $450. Both located in South Rockville, MD __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 4 13:19:28 2004 Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 13:18:10 -0400 (EDT) From: dan To: Ryan Santoso cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: 211 in general On Thu, 3 Jun 2004, Ryan Santoso wrote: > wonderful roads that are just as good and less > crowded. Some roads just short of the DC area such as > Berkley Springs, Mt. Storm, etc etc to me are far > better than 211 if you account the crowd, the gestapo > factor, and just some of the high squidly factor on > 211. I've been poking around Berkley Springs a bit, the section of 9 is pretty nice, any other good roads out there? What are some good roads around Mt. Storm? I've got some good GPS tracks out to Berkley Springs if anyone wants them. Dan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 4 13:39:01 2004 Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 10:38:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: 211 in general To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Well around Mt. Storm the obvious ones are: US 50, plenty of nice twisties from just west of Winchester wayyyyyyyy into WV. And WV 42 from Mount Storm south is pretty nice. --- dan wrote: > On Thu, 3 Jun 2004, Ryan Santoso wrote: > > wonderful roads that are just as good and less > > crowded. Some roads just short of the DC area such > as > > Berkley Springs, Mt. Storm, etc etc to me are far > > better than 211 if you account the crowd, the > gestapo > > factor, and just some of the high squidly factor > on > > 211. > > I've been poking around Berkley Springs a bit, the > section of 9 is pretty > nice, any other good roads out there? What are some > good roads around Mt. > Storm? I've got some good GPS tracks out to > Berkley Springs if anyone > wants them. > > Dan > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 4 14:34:43 2004 X-OB-Received: from unknown (205.158.62.81) by wfilter.us4.outblaze.com; 4 Jun 2004 18:34:03 -0000 From: "David Blumgart" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 13:35:17 -0500 Subject: Open face vs. Full-face helmets What's the consensus these days - at least among this list - over full face vs. open face helmets? I just returned to riding after 20-odd years, bought what I always wore - open face - but noticed that they don't sell many of these old-school helmets, at least in the two dealerships I visited. What do you guys wear? BTW, if this is one of those topics that historically has ignited list flame-wars, my apologies, and let's pretend I never posted this message. -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 4 14:44:49 2004 Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 11:44:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Open face vs. Full-face helmets To: David Blumgart , dc-cycles@XXXXXX LOL. Listen go full-face unless your face is very very ugly (-: Imagine smashing your face into the pavement. Not fun! If you want the best of both, there are a number of full face helmets that have the front which come up completely for talking, smoking, etc. --- David Blumgart wrote: > What's the consensus these days - at least among > this list - over full face vs. open face helmets? > I just returned to riding after 20-odd years, bought > what I always wore - open face - but noticed that > they don't sell many of these old-school helmets, at > least in the two dealerships I visited. What do you > guys wear? > > BTW, if this is one of those topics that > historically has ignited list flame-wars, my > apologies, and let's pretend I never posted this > message. > -- > ___________________________________________________________ > Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com > http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 4 14:49:10 2004 Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 11:49:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: Open face vs. Full-face helmets To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX LOL, you opened the can o worms! I imagine mine will be one in about 1000. I use full face and would not wear anything else. YMMV. Maybe one of the full face "flip ups" might work nice for you? Glenn --- David Blumgart wrote: > What's the consensus these days - at least among > this list - over full face vs. open face helmets? > I just returned to riding after 20-odd years, bought > what I always wore - open face - but noticed that > they don't sell many of these old-school helmets, at > least in the two dealerships I visited. What do you > guys wear? > > BTW, if this is one of those topics that > historically has ignited list flame-wars, my > apologies, and let's pretend I never posted this > message. > -- __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 4 15:06:59 2004 Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 15:06:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Dave Paper To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Open face vs. Full-face helmets On Fri, 4 Jun 2004, Mark Kitchell wrote: > LOL. Listen go full-face unless your face is very > very ugly (-: Imagine smashing your face into the > pavement. Not fun! Ah, I don't have to imagine it. When I failed to keep the shiny side up, I hit top right side of head, then right face then right shoulder when I kissed the asphalt. Based on what my helmet/jacket looked like afterwards, I would be even uglier than I am now if I had been wearing anything but a full face. Made me a believer. Some folks say they are claustrophobic, and they are probably right. No worse than a welding mask though. -dave > > If you want the best of both, there are a number of > full face helmets that have the front which come up > completely for talking, smoking, etc. > > > --- David Blumgart wrote: > > What's the consensus these days - at least among > > this list - over full face vs. open face helmets? > > I just returned to riding after 20-odd years, bought > > what I always wore - open face - but noticed that > > they don't sell many of these old-school helmets, at > > least in the two dealerships I visited. What do you > > guys wear? > > > > BTW, if this is one of those topics that > > historically has ignited list flame-wars, my > > apologies, and let's pretend I never posted this > > message. > > -- > > > ___________________________________________________________ > > Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com > > http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. > http://messenger.yahoo.com/ > -- cerberus@XXXXXX "The only contributions France has given to popular culture in the last 50 years is Gerard Depardieu and that horny skunk." --SNL From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 4 15:15:00 2004 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: lists@XXXXXX via smtp-1.hrnoc.net X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.20st (Clear:RC:1(216.120.225.30):. Processed in 0.024168 secs) Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 15:14:39 -0400 From: "Gary Foreman" To: "David Blumgart" , Subject: Re: Open face vs. Full-face helmets X-HR-Scan-Signature: 06d900a217027daee363edd08c15fb37 X-HR-SA-Score: () X-HR-Status: HR_AVScanned-(lists@XXXXXX/216.120.225.37) Open face is what you will have if you do a face plant in the asphalt :-) Gary Foreman "David Blumgart" wrote: > What's the consensus these days - at least among this list - over full face vs. > open face helmets? I just returned to riding after 20-odd years, bought what > I always wore - open face - but noticed that they don't sell many of these > old-school helmets, at least in the two dealerships I visited. What do you > guys wear? > > BTW, if this is one of those topics that historically has ignited list > flame-wars, my apologies, and let's pretend I never posted this message. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 4 15:24:19 2004 Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 15:24:07 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: mojohand@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Open face vs. Full-face helmets X-AOL-IP: 65.86.98.162 X-AOL-Language: english Dave, We're not scheduled for the Full face v Open Face helmet discussion for another couple weeks. :-) However, I personally prefer my full face helmets to anything else. Quieter and a lot less crap hitting you in the face. ;-) Scooter In a message dated 6/4/2004 2:35:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mojohand@XXXXXX writes: > > > What's the consensus these days - at least among this list - over full face vs. open face helmets? I just returned to riding after 20-odd years, bought what I always wore - open face - but noticed that they don't sell many of these old-school helmets, at least in the two dealerships I visited. What do you guys wear? > > BTW, if this is one of those topics that historically has ignited list flame-wars, my apologies, and let's pretend I > never posted this message. > -- > ___________________________________________________________ > Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com > http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 4 15:40:24 2004 X-OB-Received: from unknown (205.158.62.49) by wfilter.us4.outblaze.com; 4 Jun 2004 19:39:44 -0000 From: "David Blumgart" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 14:40:16 -0500 Subject: Open face vs. Full-face helmets OK. Why don't we take it as a given that I understand (and may have even understood before I posted) that a full-face helmet offers more protection over the older style, and that I could regret not having this protection should I do a face plant? So let me rephrase the question. Motorcycling inherently involves a whole series of trade-offs between safety and the pleasures of riding. Is it the general consensus these days that the benefits of greater safety of a full face helmet outweigh its disavantages of being closed in and cut-off from the outside? -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 4 15:46:37 2004 From: "Motorcycle Guy" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Open face vs. Full-face helmets Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 15:35:00 -0400 Do you REALLY want a cicada in the face at 65mph? >From: "David Blumgart" >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Open face vs. Full-face helmets >Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 13:35:17 -0500 > >What's the consensus these days - at least among this list - over full face >vs. open face helmets? I just returned to riding after 20-odd years, >bought what I always wore - open face - but noticed that they don't sell >many of these old-school helmets, at least in the two dealerships I >visited. What do you guys wear? > >BTW, if this is one of those topics that historically has ignited list >flame-wars, my apologies, and let's pretend I never posted this message. >-- >___________________________________________________________ >Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com >http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 4 15:53:11 2004 Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 15:46:52 -0400 From: Skip CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Open face vs. Full-face helmets this decision falls into the "ride your own ride" category. the majority of folks on this list choose to wear full face. I believe the trend among non-Harley riders has been towards full-face. I choose a full face. so... yeah. the consensus as I see it is that the benefit of safety outweighs the wind in your face. --skip David Blumgart wrote: > > OK. Why don't we take it as a given that I understand (and may have even understood before I posted) that a full-face helmet offers more protection over the older style, and that I could regret not having this protection should I do a face plant? > > So let me rephrase the question. Motorcycling inherently involves a whole series of trade-offs between safety and the pleasures of riding. Is it the general consensus these days that the benefits of greater safety of a full face helmet outweigh its disavantages of being closed in and cut-off from the outside? > > -- > ___________________________________________________________ > Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com > http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 4 15:55:23 2004 Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 12:55:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Open face vs. Full-face helmets To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX ok, now I have to ask 'Who cares what the general consensus is?' Thist is a question of tradeoff that only David Blumgart can answer for David Blumgart. There are clear safety issues that involve facial injuries, tooth lose, eye damage and bug interaction. Beyond that its how you feel about the ying and yang of comfort vs safety. good luck --- David Blumgart wrote: > OK. Why don't we take it as a given that I > understand (and may have even understood before I > posted) that a full-face helmet offers more > protection over the older style, and that I could > regret not having this protection should I do a face > plant? > > So let me rephrase the question. Motorcycling > inherently involves a whole series of trade-offs > between safety and the pleasures of riding. Is it > the general consensus these days that the benefits > of greater safety of a full face helmet outweigh its > disavantages of being closed in and cut-off from the > outside? > > > > -- > ___________________________________________________________ > Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com > http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 4 16:58:06 2004 From: "Perry Coleman" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Open face vs. Full-face helmets Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 16:46:00 -0400 Or a yellow jacket getting in and then stuck behind your ear... On a road with no shoulder... That was probably the last time I wore my old 3/4 helmet! Perry >From: "Motorcycle Guy" >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: RE: Open face vs. Full-face helmets >Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 15:35:00 -0400 > >Do you REALLY want a cicada in the face at 65mph? > > _________________________________________________________________ Watch the online reality show Mixed Messages with a friend and enter to win a trip to NY http://www.msnmessenger-download.click-url.com/go/onm00200497ave/direct/01/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 4 18:08:51 2004 Reply-To: "Jon Strang" From: "Jon Strang" To: "David Blumgart" , Subject: Re: Open face vs. Full-face helmets Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 18:09:43 -0400 Full face. Reasons: (1) You should see the chin bar and face shield of my last helmet after my last fall. I would've sanded my face smooth....nose, lips, alla that stuff would've been gone. (2) You ever see the size of splat a cicada makes at 65mph? Any debris (pebble, bug, raindrop, whatever) is conveniently stopped by the helmet (3) I ride in the winter, too. A fullface keeps my face pretty warm....important since my electrics stop at my neck. --jon ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Blumgart" To: Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 2:35 PM Subject: Open face vs. Full-face helmets > What's the consensus these days - at least among this list - over full face vs. open face helmets? I just returned to riding after 20-odd years, bought what I always wore - open face - but noticed that they don't sell many of these old-school helmets, at least in the two dealerships I visited. What do you guys wear? > > BTW, if this is one of those topics that historically has ignited list flame-wars, my apologies, and let's pretend I never posted this message. > -- > ___________________________________________________________ > Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com > http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 4 18:41:30 2004 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Open face vs. Full-face helmets Content-ID: <26115.1086388866.1@XXXXXX> Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 18:41:06 -0400 From: Harry Mantakos > What's the consensus these days - at least among this list - over full >face vs. open face helmets? I'm sure open-face helmets are much more comfortable, but then open-face condoms probably are too. -harry From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 4 19:19:34 2004 Reply-To: From: "Lisa Goddard" To: , Subject: Open face vs. Full-face helmets Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 19:19:15 -0400 From: "David Blumgart" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 13:35:17 -0500 Subject: Open face vs. Full-face helmets What's the consensus these days - at least among this list - over full face vs. open face helmets? I just returned to riding after 20-odd years, bought what I always wore - open face - but noticed that they don't sell many of these old-school helmets, at least in the two dealerships I visited. What do you guys wear? Not to ad fuel to the fire, but, most of the times I have crashed I have ended up with a load of rash across the helmet where my cheeks and chin would be. Personally, I wore braces on my teeth for too many years to want to screw them up! Looking at the rash on my past helmets I would like to think the full-face helmets have done a nice job protecting my face as I slide across the pavement and sometimes grass. Lisa Goddard '95 VFR '97 GSXR, crashed 5 days ago! From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 4 19:42:24 2004 From: "Shigeru Honda" To: "Steve Noe" , Subject: Re: '86 Yam SRX600S Thumper and '71 Triumph Bonneville Engine Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 19:43:13 -0400 SRX600 !! drool.... uuuhm donuts... do'h! I was looking for SRX but couldn't find it bought MZ Skorpion instead little while ago! try posting it at WERA's bulletin board http://forums.13x.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=12 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Noe" To: Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 10:08 AM Subject: FS: '86 Yam SRX600S Thumper and '71 Triumph Bonneville Engine > Greetings, > > If there are more appropriate regional groups to post > this info, let me know. I own both items and have > digital pix for those interested. > > The Yamaha is a Canadian import, Maryland registered > and ridden. Yellow, SuperTrapp, Safety wired for the > track, new chain, sprockets, and front brake pads. > Runs strong, Steve at Myers took it around the block > and said it is one of the better examples of this bike > he has ridden. Asking $2k > > 1971 Triumph Bonneville engine complete (no carbs). > Fins fine. Good compression. Asking $450. > > Both located in South Rockville, MD > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. > http://messenger.yahoo.com/ > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 4 19:48:03 2004 From: "Sean Steele" To: "DC Cycles" Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 19:47:27 -0400 Subject: Oops So I rode down to Nags Head from DC yesterday. Long day. The longest ride for me up until yesterday was 70 miles... yesterday was 280 miles, counting meanders and whatnot (Rt.17S being the principal departure from the norm). On the way down, stopped at a country church (the backyard) to answer the call. Put the sidestand down, on a slight incline, stepped back... and creeeek... bike fell over. Missed my toe by an inch ;-0 No real damage -- it landed in the grass -- but the right front turn signal got busted. Question: safety-wise, how uncomfortable would listers be w/o a front turn signal? I may be able to jury-rig something. If not, I may signal left turns with the old hand. Not an optimal situation, I know. C'est la vie. -Sean WAR-shington, DC '92 Seca II "The Blind Leading the Blind" From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 4 20:02:38 2004 From: "Rob Sharp" To: "Motorcycle Guy" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Open face vs. Full-face helmets Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 20:04:46 -0400 I have had a chestnut fall off a tree and hit me in the face shield. Something you could replicate if you tried. If I want some area I open my vents or just lift the face shield. Regards, Rob On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 15:35:00 -0400, Motorcycle Guy wrote > Do you REALLY want a cicada in the face at 65mph? > > >From: "David Blumgart" > >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > >Subject: Open face vs. Full-face helmets > >Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 13:35:17 -0500 > > > >What's the consensus these days - at least among this list - over full face > >vs. open face helmets? I just returned to riding after 20-odd years, > >bought what I always wore - open face - but noticed that they don't sell > >many of these old-school helmets, at least in the two dealerships I > >visited. What do you guys wear? > > > >BTW, if this is one of those topics that historically has ignited list > >flame-wars, my apologies, and let's pretend I never posted this message. > >-- > >___________________________________________________________ > >Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com > >http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm > > -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 4 20:38:15 2004 Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 17:38:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Oops To: Sean Steele , DC Cycles don't sweat it. nobody sees us anyway.... --- Sean Steele wrote: > So I rode down to Nags Head from DC yesterday. Long day. > The longest > ride for me up until yesterday was 70 miles... yesterday > was 280 miles, > counting meanders and whatnot (Rt.17S being the principal > departure from > the norm). > > On the way down, stopped at a country church (the > backyard) to answer > the call. Put the sidestand down, on a slight incline, > stepped back... > and creeeek... bike fell over. Missed my toe by an inch > ;-0 > > No real damage -- it landed in the grass -- but the right > front turn > signal got busted. > > Question: safety-wise, how uncomfortable would listers be > w/o a front > turn signal? I may be able to jury-rig something. If > not, I may signal > left turns with the old hand. > > Not an optimal situation, I know. C'est la vie. > > -Sean > WAR-shington, DC > '92 Seca II "The Blind Leading the Blind" __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 4 22:13:57 2004 From: "W.S." To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Venty gloves [was Open face vs. Full-face helmets] Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 22:13:46 -0400 From: "David Blumgart" . . . snip Motorcycling inherently involves a whole series of trade-offs between safety and the pleasures of riding. . . . snip ******* Ahhhh, the searching, the sifting, the sizing. Since the dawn of my riding I've ferreted for protective, cool summer gloves. The ideal, of course, would be a refrigerated iron mail style. Non ever found. And with lighter gloves having a habit of departing my 'Stich pockets, standard MC glove prices are out. Besides, most of them are black. Hot. So over the years I've settled for a mixture of light leatherette sailing gloves and tan deerskin driving gloves (light, comfy, but still warm from, yes, Home Depot). Not with much confidence, of course: The classic muggy Mid-Atlantic tradeoff. Both in the $20-$30 range. Until a couple of months ago. In Lowe's, looking over the glove rack, came across a pair that I'm counting on for backing by the MC gods. Medium weight pigskin leather *except* -- on top of the fingers, and on the back of hand and wrist, a (what seems to be) sturdy poly mesh. A leather bridge covers the knuckles and the palm is doublelayered. But it's the backside mesh which is wonderful -- On the few hotties so far the mesh has proven *very* ventilating. (Too bad mesh is black.) More protection and more venting than I've found before. Gone on too long, I know, but this has been my biggest gear breakthrough in years. Details: Wells Lamont SUG 856L (or s, m, etc.) Sport Utility Glove. Pic at http://www.wellslamont.com/tmp_sug.tpl?&startat=1&endat=5. Around $20 shipped. And they're Made in China. Who can argue with Lao Tse and Sun Tzu? Bill S. / DC '99 VN750 > Wal, cool my grips! Stylish too! Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 4 22:26:39 2004 Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 19:26:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Ryan Santoso Subject: Re: 211 in general To: Glenn Dysart , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Rt. 50 past winchester all the way to Clarksburg is one of my all time favorite. You can't go wrong. Four hours of constant twisties. You can make it a single day trip, but usually i stay overnight in Clarksburg. Ryan --- Glenn Dysart wrote: > Well around Mt. Storm the obvious ones are: US 50, > plenty of nice twisties from just west of > Winchester > wayyyyyyyy into WV. And WV 42 from Mount Storm > south > is pretty nice. > > > --- dan wrote: > > On Thu, 3 Jun 2004, Ryan Santoso wrote: > > > wonderful roads that are just as good and less > > > crowded. Some roads just short of the DC area > such > > as > > > Berkley Springs, Mt. Storm, etc etc to me are > far > > > better than 211 if you account the crowd, the > > gestapo > > > factor, and just some of the high squidly factor > > on > > > 211. > > > > I've been poking around Berkley Springs a bit, the > > section of 9 is pretty > > nice, any other good roads out there? What are > some > > good roads around Mt. > > Storm? I've got some good GPS tracks out to > > Berkley Springs if anyone > > wants them. > > > > Dan > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. > http://messenger.yahoo.com/ > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 4 22:32:34 2004 Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 22:32:33 -0400 To: DC-Cycles@XXXXXX From: "David Blumgart (home)" Subject: Venty gloves Sold. I'll get some right after I order a full-face helmet (It was the yellow-jacket story that really got to me) > Ahhhh, the searching, the sifting, the sizing. Since the dawn of my >riding I've ferreted for protective, cool summer gloves...In Lowe's, >looking over the glove >rack, came across a pair that I'm counting on for backing by the MC gods...... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 4 23:20:28 2004 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX CC: mojohand@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Open face vs. Full-face helmets Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 23:20:20 -0400 From: "David Blumgart" > >What's the consensus these days - at least among this list - over full face >vs. open face helmets? >What do you guys wear? Does this help? http://jeff.dean.home.att.net/swisher.htm Bob Meyer Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" '92 ST1100, "red STag" '02 919, "still looking for a name" A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers.... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jun 5 09:49:00 2004 Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 09:48:53 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "David Blumgart (home)" Subject: Re: Open face vs. Full-face helmets At 11:20 PM 6/4/2004 -0400, you wrote: >Does this help? > >http://jeff.dean.home.att.net/swisher.htm Yeah, but it's still not as persuasive as that yellow jacket story From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jun 5 09:50:04 2004 Reply-To: "Jon Strang" From: "Jon Strang" To: Subject: Hey, Shafties, quick question.... Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2004 09:51:09 -0400 Horkster and any other shaft drive people: I'm going to pull off my friend's wheels so he can get new rubber installed. As I was running through the procedure in my head, I got to the step where I'd normally "loosen chain adjusters"....however, he's got a 1983 KZ 750 LTD for his first bike. It has a shaft and I've never removed the rear wheel on a shaft drive before. Looking at it, it looks like I just remove the axle, and the shaft & that mess 'o hub stuff should just let the wheel slide out. Is that how it works? Any tricks? Thanks! --jon From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jun 5 19:13:01 2004 Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2004 19:13:47 -0400 Subject: Serious Motorcycle travel From: Bob McKeithen To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX If any of you are interested in serious long distance motorcycle travel you should check the website for Horizons Unlimited at www.horizonsunlimited.com and click on travelers meetings. There will be one this year nearby in Western North Carolina. If you have ever considered the thought of riding more than Rt 211 etc.for recreation this would be a good place to start. I am will be attending as a way to prepare for a round the world trip I am planning for 2006. Bob From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Jun 6 10:23:15 2004 From: "Jefferson Parke" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: motorcycle in a minivan Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 10:21:20 -0400 Just wanted to let everyone know that I was successful at moving a 90 VFR in the back of a Honda Odyssey. All I had to do was take off the windscreen, which shaved off about 4 inches. I bracketed together two 2"x6"x8' pieces of wood, took a few half-size cinder blocks as support under the wood (so that it wouldn't bend and possibly break), and used the side sliding door as the entry way. Once the bike was in (really easy), I strapped it to the various metal bars and hooks that are accessible when the seats have been removed. The whole thing was quick and smooth. Probably even easier than dealing with a trailer since I don't have to watch the speed and I *know* the bike is safe. No reservations, no expense, very good option if anyone else out wants to try. - Jeff _________________________________________________________________ Get fast, reliable Internet access with MSN 9 Dial-up )B– now 3 months FREE! http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Jun 6 11:53:52 2004 From: "Rob Sharp" To: "Jefferson Parke" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: motorcycle in a minivan Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 11:56:02 -0400 My S10 is invaluable in these sorts of situations. Once you get a truck it's hard to considering going back to anything else. Rob On Sun, 06 Jun 2004 10:21:20 -0400, Jefferson Parke wrote > Just wanted to let everyone know that I was successful at moving a > 90 VFR in the back of a Honda Odyssey. All I had to do was take off > the windscreen, which shaved off about 4 inches. I bracketed > together two 2"x6"x8' pieces of wood, took a few half-size cinder > blocks as support under the wood (so that it wouldn't bend and > possibly break), and used the side sliding door as the entry way. > Once the bike was in (really easy), I strapped it to the various > metal bars and hooks that are accessible when the seats have been > removed. The whole thing was quick and smooth. Probably even > easier than dealing with a trailer since I don't have to watch the > speed and I *know* the bike is safe. No reservations, no expense, > very good option if anyone else out wants to try. > > - Jeff > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get fast, reliable Internet access with MSN 9 Dial-up )B– now 3 months > FREE! http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Jun 6 12:00:58 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 12:00:46 EDT Subject: Re: Rt. 211 "Racetrack" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I got this from a well meaning friend who found a discussion of the 211 article on a non motorcycle listserv. His original post was a warning about the horrors of riding on 211. It is long, sorry, if you dislike the way I write hit delete NOW. Subj: Re: Be careful out there! In a message dated 6/3/2004 11:35:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, XXX writes: Hi It is really nice to hear from you, hope you and yours are doing great. I have re-read my reply to your post above and find it a _little_ shrill but I do feel strongly about the topic so I am sending it to you as is. We all have our "hot buttons." It is _not_ directed at you. John. > http://www.hypernews.org/HyperNews/get/trails/PATC.html > > thread # 4911 -- about an apparently inviting-looking deathtrap stretch > of route 211 ... If it is based on the newspaper article about 211 that has been getting so much attention on some of the local motorcycle lists (And I am making that assumption.) I have to say (excuse me) BULLSHIT! I have read the article online and have to say I have _never_ read a motorcycle related article in any paper that was so full of misinformation, made up and totally unsupported "facts" and nonsense. The paper should be ashamed of itself. (I did not log on to the link above, I do not like to log on to anything if I can avoid it.) One of the list members sent a very well thought out response to the paper and copied it to the list. If you want to read it I will forward it to you. Also consider "John's motorcycle equation, I/M - M = ??," copied from a response to this very thread sent by me to the local listserv. (It is not new I have used it for years.) > Fact: > There are always going to be idiots out there on two wheels, (Or 4.) > Start with an _I_diot on a _M_otorcycle or I/M > Subtract (outlaw) the _M_otorcycle. You are left with _I_. ? Do you think _I_ is going to walk? Take the subway? > Hell no. > _I_ is going to get the badest, fastest car he can find and ride it just like he rode his bike. > Are you safer? Is your family safer? > Do you really want an _I_diot riding 2_tons_ of deadly weapon? Let Darwin take care of the idiots. John. In a message dated 6/4/2004 12:19:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, XXX writes: > May I forward that, with minor editing > Yes. But since I did not include any supporting information from my point of view let me point out some of the absurdities. I apologize if this has gotten long, edit as needed. > Settle said most of the crashes on the mountain involve sports bikes. > "These racing style bikes have aerodynamics that are made to hug curves," Settle said. Aerodynamics have NOTHING to do with a bikes ability to "hug curves" that has to do with steering geometry, ground clearance, and more importantly tires. Aerodynamics in terms of common sport bikes has more to do with marketing than performance. > "We typically don't have problems with Harley Davidson bikes. It's the little fast bikes." Harley Davidson bikes?????? Harley is a brand name, not a type of bike. I am sure what he means is the style of bike known as cruisers, anyone who knows bikes would know that. And cruisers are made by nearly _every_ motorcycle manufacturer, including BMW! Oh, and Harley makes a sport bike. > Shaw and Lewis enjoy riding Harley's. They agree that sports bikes are dangerous vehicles. EXCUSE ME????? Dangerous in what way? Do you mean superior brakes? Do you mean superior agility, the ability to dodge highway obstacles? The bright colors that enhance visibility? The fact that most (not all) sport bike riders wear far more and better safety gear then (most of) the "safer" cruiser bike riders? (One need only to look at the helmets worn by the larger population of both rider types to confirm this.) Power/top speed? These accidents do not occur at anything near the bikes top speeds, or even during maximum acceleration. They occur because the RIDER makes a mistake, A testosterone soaked rider riding over his head. > "Those are dangerous bikes," Shaw said. "They are so low > and the drivers are always leaning > so far over on the curves." They are low???? Perhaps the most common complaint from people shopping for sport bikes is that they are so TALL!! In fact it is CRUSERS that are recommended for shorter riders because their saddles are so much lower to the ground. NO ONE! And I mean no one, who knows bikes would make such an absurd statement. As for leaning, motorcycles _must_ lean to turn, as must bicycles, The fact that sport bikes have more ground clearance (part of the reason they are so TALL) allows them to lean farther in a turn. It is an ability, not a requirement. A cruiser will start dragging parts on the ground and as a result losing traction and possibly control _long_ before a sport bike. > Settle added that some drivers have little experience on motorcycles. FINALLY a true statement. The problem is not the bikes but the riders, and the solution is rider education. Rider education is out there, but does not get the state support it deserves. > before hopping on the racing bikes. They are _NOT_ race bikes, they are street legal vehicles that are _styled_ to look racy. They are safe competent vehicles that like sports cars are often ridden by inexperienced kids. As for "Johns Motorcycle Equation" lets use the example sited: > One resulted in the first fatality of the year, when a motorcycle > collided head on with a van approaching the top of the mountain. Were the people in the van (the innocents, perhaps a nice family out for a drive in the mountains) hurt? Odds are no. What would the outcome have been if the rider had been in a car instead of on a bike? Experts my ass! John. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Jun 6 12:10:03 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 12:09:54 EDT Subject: Re: Open face vs. Full-face helmets To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/4/2004 3:55:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, markkitchell@XXXXXX writes: > Thist is a question of tradeoff that > only David Blumgart can answer for David Blumgart. Damn straight! As long as David understands the problems/trade offs (and many posts have given him just that) it is up to him. As is the whole idea of riding a bike to begin with, an occupation that horrifies many people. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Jun 6 12:15:33 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 12:15:23 EDT Subject: Re: Hey, Shafties, quick question.... To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/5/2004 9:50:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jmstrang@XXXXXX writes: > Looking at it, it looks like I just remove the axle, and the shaft & that > mess 'o hub stuff should just let the wheel slide out. Is that how it > works? Purty much. You will need to pull the wheel away from the drive and off the splines. To do that you may need to remove or move some brake parts etc. One thing _grease the splines!_ And use a damn good grease, if you do not the splines will burn out and you do not EVEN want to know how much that costs... > Any tricks? Yep. Put the bike in gear before you remove the wheel, it will make lining up the splines on reassembly a _lot_ easier. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Jun 6 14:16:32 2004 Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 14:17:38 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Dan Brown Subject: Re: Rt. 211 "Racetrack" At 12:00 PM 6/6/2004 -0400, you wrote: >I got this from a well meaning friend who found a discussion of the 211 >article on a non motorcycle listserv. His original post was a warning >about the >horrors of riding on 211. I read the noted news article, actually, and it while it doesn't exactly portray motorcycle riders in a good light, it isn't nearly as awful as the article I responded to a few days ago. Here's the link, reporting on the two memorial day crashes. http://www.zwire.com/site/tab4.cfm?newsid=11844956&BRD=2553&PAG=461&dept_id=506086&rfi=6 or http://tinyurl.com/2os7e Couple interesting tidbits - One of the riders was from Aldie - which, while I don't have a map in front of me, is a lot more "local" to the mountain than not, contradicting the Page News article I responded to. Also, of note, the investigating trooper was quoted as having said "speed was probably a contributing factor." That tells me that they're making some assumptions. Maybe good assumptions, but, assumptions none the less. Anyhow -- my biggest gripes, aside from the fact that a few riders are being dumb, auto-darwinating, and making the rest of us look bad: - The reporters reporting exaggerated and/or flat out incorrect facts. - The experts really aren't experts. - The only "solution" - increased enforcement - isn't really a solution. SN, AFU. We now return this list to its normal non-motorcycle related flame fest. -- Resist or Serve From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Jun 6 17:01:41 2004 Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 17:01:13 -0400 From: Dale Horstman To: jmstrang@XXXXXX CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Hey, Shafties, quick question.... PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > In a message dated 6/5/2004 9:50:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > jmstrang@XXXXXX writes: > > >>Looking at it, it looks like I just remove the axle, and the shaft & that >> mess 'o hub stuff should just let the wheel slide out. Is that how it >> works? > > > Purty much. You will need to pull the wheel away from the drive and off the > splines. To do that you may need to remove or move some brake parts etc. Yeah, what John said, once the axle is out, there should be an axle spacer and maybe some associated brake stuff kinda in the way, once that's all clear, pull the rear wheel sideways off the shaft hub and it should come off. >> Any tricks? Depending on how intrusive the rear fender is, sometimes it helps to centerstand the bike up on a 2x4 or something to get some extra ground clearance in order to remove the rear wheel. Easier said than done getting it up there, and you also want to make sure the bike doesn't roll forward off the centerstand if you do it... Horkster -- Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark) Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX '98 Concours - BugSlayer Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth '99 Concours - Grape Nehi CM #001 NRA IBA COG '82 GS850G The Mason Dixon 20-20 Endurance Rally: The Hole Dam Rally Come join us in 2005: http://www.md2020.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Jun 6 17:16:46 2004 From: "Rob Sharp" To: "DC-Cycles" Cc: "Jeremy Riggs" Subject: Motorcycle Permit Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 17:18:56 -0400 My friends wants to get his motorcycle learners permit. He is in Maryland. I poked around the MVA site but couldn't find anything really other than applying for a car learner permit. He already has his license. Also is there a seperate motorcycle permit manual ? All I could find was a general one. I know the test can be that hard but something to study with would rock. I got my license in NYS so I got no clue how it works here. Any tips ? Rob -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Jun 6 18:39:09 2004 From: "Gary Foreman" To: "'DC-Cycles'" Subject: Stoppie went bad today - bike landed on top of me Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 18:42:28 -0400 I guess this is the reason people shouldn't do this crap. It was a low speed stoppie, and I shifted the weight forward and grabbed some front brake. Felt the back end rise, and then it happened so fast I couldn't release the front brake. I went down and the bike landed on top of me. Good thing this mountain bicycle is so light. Wife looked back and thought I was dead. The reason I didn't jump back up is I was laughing so damn hard I could hardly move. Glad it was in a remote location and only she saw me. I did some future stoppies after that, knowing what to expect with these damn good brakes. No, you won't catch me doing this on the GSX-R :-) Gary Foreman From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Jun 6 22:22:37 2004 Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 22:25:23 -0400 To: "David Blumgart" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Open face vs. Full-face helmets At 02:40 PM 6/4/04 -0500, David Blumgart wrote: >So let me rephrase the question. Motorcycling inherently involves a whole series of trade-offs between safety and the pleasures of riding. Is it the general consensus these days that the benefits of greater safety of a full face helmet outweigh its disavantages of being closed in and cut-off from the outside? I don't think there's a general consensus on this list that water is wet, so we can give up on that one right now. Just take the various thoughts you will be getting in response, and blend as you see fit, then toss the results or use them as you decide. On long rides (all day, weekend, etc.) I've taken both 1/2 and full-face helmets, and used both. I tried a 1/2 helmet on a ride up to York, PA last month, and decided I didn't really like long high speed riding in that style, so the trip back was in the full face. Much more pleasant for that kind of riding. On the other hand, for a scavenger hunt ride last month, which was about 90 miles of back roads in Montgomery County, MD, I wore the half-helmet and was very happy with it. Speeds were lower, and there was a lot more getting off the bike and talking to people than on a hooligan ride up 211 (if the shoe fits... ;-), so the ease of communication and sensory ease of that style were more important than the safety factors. What's the next subject? Half-gloves vs. Full steel plated gauntlets? :-) -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Jun 6 22:22:38 2004 Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 22:12:56 -0400 To: "David Blumgart" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Open face vs. Full-face helmets At 01:35 PM 6/4/04 -0500, David Blumgart wrote: >What's the consensus these days - at least among this list - over full face vs. open face helmets? I just returned to riding after 20-odd years, bought what I always wore - open face - but noticed that they don't sell many of these old-school helmets, at least in the two dealerships I visited. What do you guys wear? I have a full-face and a half-helmet. For high speed riding (interstate, or long rides on roads like Rt 17 which are just as fast), or any ride below 40 degrees, I prefer the full-face. Not only does it provide better protection, it also has better sound-proofing, rain protection, and eliminates facial wind-pounding (and pounding by other things, such as cicadas). It's much warmer in the winter...though fogging is a problem. For slower (25-40 mph), calmer (back roads with little traffic), group rides in hot weather I like the half-helmet. It interferes with communication less, is cooler, and lets me experience more of the environment. It offers less protection, but that's something you have to decide about for yourself. A 3/4 helmet with a face shield is a compromise between those two extremes. They seem very popular with the CB/intercom crowd, as they don't get in the way of the boom mics, offer easier mounting of the mics, and provide some sound-proofing to make hearing the earphones easier. Battley's carries all three styles, along with dirt bike/ATV helmets. I'd guess that most H-D dealers carry 1/2, 3/4 and full to some extent...the ones I've been to all did. >BTW, if this is one of those topics that historically has ignited list flame-wars, my apologies, and let's pretend I never posted this message. Nah, if you can't take the heat... ;-) -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Jun 6 22:22:59 2004 Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 22:26:21 -0400 To: "Motorcycle Guy" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: Open face vs. Full-face helmets At 03:35 PM 6/4/04 -0400, Motorcycle Guy wrote: >Do you REALLY want a cicada in the face at 65mph? I didn't even *hear* cicadas down in Va. Beach this weekend... -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Jun 6 22:34:35 2004 Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 19:34:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Open face vs. Full-face helmets To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Ah, everyone except you was fully in favor of full-face helmets, so there was consensus. But thanks for the lovely 4 paragraph emails Mike! --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 02:40 PM 6/4/04 -0500, David Blumgart wrote: > > > I don't think there's a general consensus on this > list that water is wet, > so we can give up on that one right now. Just take > the various thoughts > you will be getting in response, and blend as you > see fit, then toss the > results or use them as you decide. > > On long rides (all day, weekend, etc.) I've taken > both 1/2 and full-face > helmets, and used both. I tried a 1/2 helmet on a > ride up to York, PA last > month, and decided I didn't really like long high > speed riding in that > style, so the trip back was in the full face. Much > more pleasant for that > kind of riding. > > On the other hand, for a scavenger hunt ride last > month, which was about 90 > miles of back roads in Montgomery County, MD, I wore > the half-helmet and > was very happy with it. Speeds were lower, and > there was a lot more > getting off the bike and talking to people than on a > hooligan ride up 211 > (if the shoe fits... ;-), so the ease of > communication and sensory ease of > that style were more important than the safety > factors. > > What's the next subject? Half-gloves vs. Full steel > plated gauntlets? :-) > > > -- Mike B. > > '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI > for the non-Harley folks) > > Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from > someone else's mistakes > is better. > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Jun 6 22:59:07 2004 Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 19:58:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Open face vs. Full-face helmets To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mark Kitchell wrote: > Ah, everyone except you was fully in favor of > full-face helmets, so there was consensus. But thanks > for the lovely 4 paragraph emails Mike! Well, actually just everyone who responded. Last time I checked there were a lot more than just the 10 or 20 people who regularly respond :-) Personally I'm in favor of the half helmet for high speed interstate type riding and the full face for around town. They both go on pretty easily and they both have irritants. I don't have or favor a windshield on my Harley. Too much turbulence. I do like having a windshield on the GSXR though. When I get going, I like to hunker down. Lots less turbulence behind the screen :-) Of course, full-faced during the colder weather is the sane thing. If you can only afford one helmet, get a full faced. The scary stories are the ones where someone went down and watched the asphalt going by their face shield. Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 07:02:02 2004 Reply-To: "Jon Strang" From: "Jon Strang" To: , Subject: Re: Hey, Shafties, quick question.... Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 07:03:09 -0400 thanks for the help, missions complete! --jon ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2004 12:15 PM Subject: Re: Hey, Shafties, quick question.... > In a message dated 6/5/2004 9:50:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > jmstrang@XXXXXX writes: > > > Looking at it, it looks like I just remove the axle, and the shaft & that > > mess 'o hub stuff should just let the wheel slide out. Is that how it > > works? > > Purty much. You will need to pull the wheel away from the drive and off the > splines. To do that you may need to remove or move some brake parts etc. > > One thing _grease the splines!_ And use a damn good grease, if you do not the > splines will burn out and you do not EVEN want to know how much that costs... > > > Any tricks? > > Yep. > Put the bike in gear before you remove the wheel, it will make lining up the > splines on reassembly a _lot_ easier. > > > John. > PenguinBiker@XXXXXX > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 08:30:53 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 08:30:39 EDT Subject: Re: Hey, Shafties, quick question.... To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/6/2004 5:01:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, horkster@XXXXXX writes: > you also want to make sure the bike > doesn't roll forward off the centerstand if you do it... A common trick is to strap the centerstand to the front wheel to prevent it from folding up. _Some_ bikes (Like my ST) have a removable rear fender flap that allows the wheel to simply roll out the back without having to jack the bike up. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 08:35:33 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 08:35:20 EDT Subject: Re: Stoppie went bad today - bike landed on top of me To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/6/2004 6:39:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lists@XXXXXX writes: > Glad it was in a remote location and only she saw me. Go to all the trouble of a spectacular crash and no one watching. What a waste #:-) John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 08:58:49 2004 Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 08:58:33 -0400 From: Dale Horstman To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Hey, Shafties, quick question.... PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > In a message dated 6/6/2004 5:01:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > horkster@XXXXXX writes: > > >>you also want to make sure the bike >> doesn't roll forward off the centerstand if you do it... > > > A common trick is to strap the centerstand to the front wheel to prevent it > from folding up. Yep, I've also used a strategically-placed disc lock to keep the front wheel from rolling forward. > _Some_ bikes (Like my ST) have a removable rear fender flap that allows the > wheel to simply roll out the back without having to jack the bike up. That is an understated and thoughtful design feature. Horkster -- Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark) Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX '98 Concours - BugSlayer Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth '99 Concours - Grape Nehi CM #001 NRA IBA COG '82 GS850G The Mason Dixon 20-20 Endurance Rally: The Hole Dam Rally Come join us in 2005: http://www.md2020.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 09:32:15 2004 Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 09:23:53 -0400 To: Mark Kitchell , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Open face vs. Full-face helmets At 07:34 PM 6/6/04 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote: >Ah, everyone except you was fully in favor of >full-face helmets, so there was consensus. Everyone who replied. Many probably just skipped it, to avoid the inevitable interaction with assholes like you. >But thanks for the lovely 4 paragraph emails Mike! Keep at it, and eventually your reading ability will grow to the point where you can cope with even more than four whole paragraphs at a time! Practice makes perfect. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 09:33:28 2004 Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 09:35:37 -0400 To: "Jon Strang" , , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Hey, Shafties, quick question.... At 07:03 AM 6/7/04 -0400, Jon Strang wrote: >thanks for the help, missions complete! > >--jon It appears from interactions such as this one and the ones on helmet choice that when it comes to safety there's a strange confusion on this list. When it comes to personal gear choices, there's a lot of "anything if it adds to safety", up to and including wearing full leathers and full face helmets on 95 degree days. On the other hand, some of those same people seem to be willing to take on maintenance of their bike's critical systems, such as wheels, brakes, throttle, and clutch, without so much as a shop manual present to guide their efforts. On the other hand, there are some of us who are willing to ride on occasion with less than race-ready protective equipment who wouldn't dream of working on such things without having first read the manufacturer's statements on how such work should be performed. There's just too much chance that some critical detail, such as torque specs, lube or lack of it, or a subtle adjustment requirement, might be overlooked and result in failure of a critical system at high speed, resulting in a need for really good protective gear. Weird, huh? -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 09:37:20 2004 Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 06:37:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Open face vs. Full-face helmets To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I may be an asshole but you remain the laughingstock of this list my friend. That I can verify with numerous personal statements. drrrriiivellll --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 07:34 PM 6/6/04 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote: > >Ah, everyone except you was fully in favor of > >full-face helmets, so there was consensus. > > Everyone who replied. Many probably just skipped > it, to avoid the > inevitable interaction with assholes like you. > > >But thanks for the lovely 4 paragraph emails Mike! > > Keep at it, and eventually your reading ability will > grow to the point > where you can cope with even more than four whole > paragraphs at a time! > Practice makes perfect. > > > -- Mike B. > > '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI > for the non-Harley folks) > > Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from > someone else's mistakes > is better. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 09:45:25 2004 Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 09:45:13 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: The hazards of moto advocacy I wrote the following to Dr. Gridlock. Dear Dr. Gridlock, In the ongoing discussion on parking vexations in District neighborhoods, I've yet to see this solution: downsize your four-wheeler to a two-wheeler. I've been an all-season motorcycle commuter and errand-runner in DC for five years now. You'd be surprised how many parking spaces magically open up when you need a space only three or four feet wide. Motorcycles and scooters can also carry a prodigious amount of cargo when they are properly equipped. It goes without saying that they are very fuel efficient and generally cheaper to buy and operate than most cars. It's not a solution that will work for everyone, but it's another option to add to the mix. Sincerely yours, Paul Wilson ---------------------- Here's what got published. Try a Moped In the ongoing discussion on lack of parking in the District, I've yet to see this solution: downsize your four-wheeler to a two-wheeler. Easier to park, lots of cargo space, more fuel efficient, cheaper to buy and operate. Paul Wilson Washington Mopeds, I'm told, get 100 miles per gallon, cost $1,200 to $1,500 new, travel up to 45 mph, and you could probably park one inside your home. ---- Compare/contrast. Notice I said not word one about "mopeds" I said, "scooters and motorcycles" as in fully road-capable vehicles. Arrgh. Aggressive editing, a pre-existing agenda, or just plain stupid, you decide. Notice the "message" about using motorcycles for commuting and errand-running is completely lost, because the Grid chose to twist the meaning of my letter. As for parking *inside* one's home, I wonder what the fire department thinks about that helpful suggestion. Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 09:49:02 2004 Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 09:52:29 -0400 To: Mark Kitchell , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Open face vs. Full-face helmets Keep on proving that you are an asshole if you like. What those who you associate with think matters even less to me than what you think. Their judgement is suspect already. No need for list management to suggest taking this private. I won't be wasting time on Kitchell again. -- Mike B. At 06:37 AM 6/7/04 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote: >I may be an asshole but you remain the laughingstock >of this list my friend. That I can verify with >numerous personal statements. > >drrrriiivellll > > >--- Mike Bartman wrote: >> At 07:34 PM 6/6/04 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote: >> >Ah, everyone except you was fully in favor of >> >full-face helmets, so there was consensus. >> >> Everyone who replied. Many probably just skipped >> it, to avoid the >> inevitable interaction with assholes like you. >> >> >But thanks for the lovely 4 paragraph emails Mike! >> >> Keep at it, and eventually your reading ability will >> grow to the point >> where you can cope with even more than four whole >> paragraphs at a time! >> Practice makes perfect. >> >> >> -- Mike B. >> >> '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI >> for the non-Harley folks) >> >> Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from >> someone else's mistakes >> is better. > > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. >http://messenger.yahoo.com/ > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 09:50:00 2004 From: "Sean Steele" To: "Paul Wilson" CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 09:49:28 -0400 Subject: Re: The hazards of moto advocacy "Wilson Letter Linked to Gridlock Graft Scandal: Vespa Dealer Indicted" Paul Wilson wrote: > I wrote the following to Dr. Gridlock. > > Dear Dr. Gridlock, > > In the ongoing discussion on parking vexations in District neighborhoods, I've yet to see this solution: downsize your four-wheeler to a two-wheeler. I've been an all-season motorcycle commuter and errand-runner in DC for five years now. You'd be surprised how many parking spaces magically open up when you need a space only three or four feet wide. Motorcycles and scooters can also carry a prodigious amount of cargo when they are properly equipped. It goes without saying that they are very fuel efficient and generally cheaper to buy and operate than most cars. It's not a solution that will work for everyone, but it's another option to add to the mix. > > Sincerely yours, > > Paul Wilson > ---------------------- > > Here's what got published. > > Try a Moped > > In the ongoing discussion on lack of parking in the District, I've yet to see this solution: downsize your four-wheeler to a two-wheeler. Easier to park, lots of cargo space, more fuel efficient, cheaper to buy and operate. > > Paul Wilson > > Washington > > Mopeds, I'm told, get 100 miles per gallon, cost $1,200 to $1,500 new, travel up to 45 mph, and you could probably park one inside your home. > > ---- > > Compare/contrast. Notice I said not word one about "mopeds" I said, "scooters and motorcycles" as in fully road-capable vehicles. Arrgh. Aggressive editing, a pre-existing agenda, or just plain stupid, you decide. Notice the "message" about using motorcycles for commuting and errand-running is completely lost, because the Grid chose to twist the meaning of my letter. As for parking *inside* one's home, I wonder what the fire department thinks about that helpful suggestion. > > Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org > 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 09:54:31 2004 From: "Jim McGonigle" To: "'Sean Steele'" , "'Paul Wilson'" Cc: Subject: RE: The hazards of moto advocacy Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 09:53:52 -0400 I'd be upset. I read that in the newspaper yesterday recognized the name. I was shocked at the letter. It made you sound "stupid" IMO. Reading your real letter is completely different... Good try though. -Jim -----Original Message----- From: Sean Steele [mailto:sean@XXXXXX] Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 9:49 AM To: Paul Wilson Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: The hazards of moto advocacy "Wilson Letter Linked to Gridlock Graft Scandal: Vespa Dealer Indicted" Paul Wilson wrote: > I wrote the following to Dr. Gridlock. > > Dear Dr. Gridlock, > > In the ongoing discussion on parking vexations in District neighborhoods, I've yet to see this solution: downsize your four-wheeler to a two-wheeler. I've been an all-season motorcycle commuter and errand-runner in DC for five years now. You'd be surprised how many parking spaces magically open up when you need a space only three or four feet wide. Motorcycles and scooters can also carry a prodigious amount of cargo when they are properly equipped. It goes without saying that they are very fuel efficient and generally cheaper to buy and operate than most cars. It's not a solution that will work for everyone, but it's another option to add to the mix. > > Sincerely yours, > > Paul Wilson > ---------------------- > > Here's what got published. > > Try a Moped > > In the ongoing discussion on lack of parking in the District, I've yet to see this solution: downsize your four-wheeler to a two-wheeler. Easier to park, lots of cargo space, more fuel efficient, cheaper to buy and operate. > > Paul Wilson > > Washington > > Mopeds, I'm told, get 100 miles per gallon, cost $1,200 to $1,500 new, travel up to 45 mph, and you could probably park one inside your home. > > ---- > > Compare/contrast. Notice I said not word one about "mopeds" I said, "scooters and motorcycles" as in fully road-capable vehicles. Arrgh. Aggressive editing, a pre-existing agenda, or just plain stupid, you decide. Notice the "message" about using motorcycles for commuting and errand-running is completely lost, because the Grid chose to twist the meaning of my letter. As for parking *inside* one's home, I wonder what the fire department thinks about that helpful suggestion. > > Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org > 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 10:11:32 2004 Reply-To: "Jon Strang" From: "Jon Strang" To: Subject: Re: Hey, Shafties, quick question.... Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 10:12:09 -0400 Bartman: Piss off you silly fuck. You don't have the motorcycling nor the mechanical experience to even consider questioning my ability to spin a wrench. Thirty grand and thirty miles don't make you an expert, so shut the fuck up. There aren't too many "subtle adjustment requirements" when removing a rear wheel. The Clymers said 90 ft-lbs on the rear axle nut, 30 ft-lbs on the two disk fasteners (with locktite). I've done it hundreds of times on over a dozen bikes. This just happened to be my first encounter with a shaft. Thanks to the list, I made sure I lubed the splines well. I'm smart enough to listen to John and the Horkster. Others had good (although n/a in this case) advice on center stand-ology. There's no "strange confusion" here. Every bike (dirt and street) I've owned has had a bit of a sporting bent...all have been chain driven. I used a usually-good-enough shop manual...a Clymer's for late 1970s-early 1980s KZ750s...but the multiple year/model book didn't include the shaft driven version. No offense to any of the professionals out there, the good ones are worth their weight in H-D stock certificates. But "mechanic roulette" is rigged in the house's favor. I trust me a hell of a lot more than the typical wage slave at the typical bike shop. Disk brake calipers were hung with the greatest of care (and zipties). All parts were lovingly inspected for unusual and/or excessive wear. Every fastener was torqued to spec, with locktite as appropriate. Lube-needing parts were. Note that I've never been stupid enough to take your fucking useless advice, you mental midget with a serious case of diarrhea of the keyboard. If I read even 1/2 of what you type, I'd still be sitting in front of my computer befuddled instead of knowing I've completed a job well done. --jon ----- "Mike Bartman" wrote: > At 07:03 AM 6/7/04 -0400, Jon Strang wrote: > >thanks for the help, missions complete! > > > >--jon > > It appears from interactions such as this one and the ones on helmet choice > that when it comes to safety there's a strange confusion on this list. > > When it comes to personal gear choices, there's a lot of "anything if it > adds to safety", up to and including wearing full leathers and full face > helmets on 95 degree days. On the other hand, some of those same people > seem to be willing to take on maintenance of their bike's critical systems, > such as wheels, brakes, throttle, and clutch, without so much as a shop > manual present to guide their efforts. > > On the other hand, there are some of us who are willing to ride on occasion > with less than race-ready protective equipment who wouldn't dream of > working on such things without having first read the manufacturer's > statements on how such work should be performed. There's just too much > chance that some critical detail, such as torque specs, lube or lack of it, > or a subtle adjustment requirement, might be overlooked and result in > failure of a critical system at high speed, resulting in a need for really > good protective gear. > > Weird, huh? > > > > -- Mike B. > > '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) > > Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes > is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 10:12:20 2004 Subject: RE: The hazards of moto advocacy Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 10:12:05 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: Looking for the simplest possible explanation for the "aggressive editing," I wonder if the moped parking example was suggested by TV shows like "Oliver's Twist," a Brit cooking show where Jamie Oliver, the eponymous chef, is depicted shopping at the local market on his scooter, and then parking his ride inside the ground floor of his town-house. While I certainly don't approve of such egregious editing for no apparent reason, ascribing deliberate malice to the individual in question may be a mistake. Just my HO, of course. Robert -----Original Message----- From: Sean Steele [mailto:sean@XXXXXX] Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 9:49 AM To: Paul Wilson Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: The hazards of moto advocacy "Wilson Letter Linked to Gridlock Graft Scandal: Vespa Dealer Indicted" From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 10:15:47 2004 Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 10:15:33 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: The hazards of moto advocacy To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX PW whimsically asks: As for parking *inside* one's home, I wonder what the fire department thinks about that helpful suggestion. [Dave] Who gives a $hit what they think? Your bike + your house = your decision. Fire department opinion /= anything of value. Not that I'm going to have a full load of gas sitting in my living room this winter with a rip-roaring fire going though... ;-) Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 10:19:15 2004 From: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" To: "'Gary Foreman'" , "'DC-Cycles'" Subject: RE: Stoppie went bad today - bike landed on top of me Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 10:18:39 -0400 A friend of mine has a new ZX10r and is really good a stoppies he can do them one handed and almost straight up. A very frightening thing to watch. -----Original Message----- From: Gary Foreman [mailto:lists@XXXXXX] Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2004 6:42 PM To: 'DC-Cycles' Subject: Stoppie went bad today - bike landed on top of me I guess this is the reason people shouldn't do this crap. It was a low speed stoppie, and I shifted the weight forward and grabbed some front brake. Felt the back end rise, and then it happened so fast I couldn't release the front brake. I went down and the bike landed on top of me. Good thing this mountain bicycle is so light. Wife looked back and thought I was dead. The reason I didn't jump back up is I was laughing so damn hard I could hardly move. Glad it was in a remote location and only she saw me. I did some future stoppies after that, knowing what to expect with these damn good brakes. No, you won't catch me doing this on the GSX-R :-) Gary Foreman From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 10:39:20 2004 X-OB-Received: from unknown (205.158.62.81) by wfilter.us4.outblaze.com; 7 Jun 2004 14:38:28 -0000 From: "David Blumgart" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 09:39:42 -0500 Subject: Common' guys.... While I am a relative newbie to this particular list, I can tell that this latest iteration of ill-will is just the top strata of a history of conflict. I don't know the background and I'm sure not taking any sides. But I've spent 20 years communicating on BBS's, mail lists, Usenet, and Web forums. I'll remind you guys that while heated disagreements are inevitable, cursing and insults are very distructive to the comity that is essential to a healthy e-community. And over the years of doing this stuff I have often - way too often - regretted sending an incindiary message, wishing I'd taken a moment to calm down and tempered my response. But you know, in over two decades I've never once wished I'd sent a more forceful message or used stronger language. Funny, that. David -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 10:40:20 2004 Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 10:40:15 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: The hazards of moto advocacy -----Original Message----- From: Dave Yates Sent: Jun 7, 2004 10:15 AM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: The hazards of moto advocacy PW whimsically asks: As for parking *inside* one's home, I wonder what the fire department thinks about that helpful suggestion. [Dave] Who gives a $hit what they think? Your bike + your house = your decision. Fire department opinion /= anything of value. Not that I'm going to have a full load of gas sitting in my living room this winter with a rip-roaring fire going though... ;-) Dave Yates ------------- Well, whimsically speaking, you *can* park your moto inside your living room. (It prolly helps enormously being spouse-free to attempt such a manuever) You *can* also sprint across the Capitol grounds toting a shotgun. But not for long. In other words there is a difference between what you *can* do and that which is reasonable and prudent. :) Seems to me the main daily DC rag (the one that carries the inevitable tag line "of record") should strike a blow for reason and prudence in such situations. I dunno why I get so worked up over Gridlock's inane column in the first place. :) Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 10:48:13 2004 Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 10:47:59 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Hey, Shafties, quick question.... X-AOL-IP: 65.86.98.162 X-AOL-Language: english Nope. This is DC. Everyone is a little weird here. %-) Scooter (Am I the only normal one in the group? :-)) In a message dated 6/7/2004 9:35:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time, omni@XXXXXX writes: > Weird, huh? > > -- Mike B. > > '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) > > Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone > else's mistakes > is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 10:56:28 2004 Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 10:56:23 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Common' guys.... To: David Blumgart Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX DB cautions: >While I am a relative newbie to this particular list, I can tell that this latest iteration of ill-will is just the top strata of a history of conflict. I don't know the background and I'm sure not taking any sides. [DaveY] That's putting im mildly... If you search the archives of DCC, you'll see a pretty long, dysfunctional history of 'elevated decibel typing'. > >But I've spent 20 years communicating on BBS's, mail lists, Usenet, and Web forums. I'll remind you guys that while heated disagreements are inevitable, cursing and insults are very distructive to the comity that is essential to a healthy e-community. [DaveY] While this list may possess comedy, I'm not sure we could associate it in any way with comity... most of the time anyway. > >And over the years of doing this stuff I have often - way too often - regretted sending an incindiary message, wishing I'd taken a moment to calm down and tempered my response. [DaveY] While nettlesome, there have been some entertaining flamefests here, again, viewable on DCC archive. > >But you know, in over two decades I've never once wished I'd sent a more forceful message or used stronger language. Funny, that. [DaveY] Rear brake use threads are always good for bringing out the worst ... but every once in a while, there's an intelligent post here... Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 11:08:25 2004 From: "Perry Coleman" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: The hazards of moto advocacy Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 11:07:15 -0400 You can also re-install the engine in a KZ1100-D1 (shaft drive, BTW) in your living room, but it is an absolute requirement (or was for me) that the spousal unit be gone for the weekend. Hey! It was raining and the patio was uncovered. We did roll it outside before we actually test fired it... ;^) Perry >From: Paul Wilson >Reply-To: Paul Wilson >To: Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: The hazards of moto advocacy >Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 10:40:15 -0400 (GMT-04:00) > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Dave Yates >Sent: Jun 7, 2004 10:15 AM >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: The hazards of moto advocacy > >PW whimsically asks: > >As for parking *inside* one's home, I wonder what the fire >department thinks about that helpful suggestion. > >[Dave] Who gives a $hit what they think? Your bike + your >house = your decision. Fire department opinion /= anything >of value. > >Not that I'm going to have a full load of gas sitting in my >living room this winter with a rip-roaring fire going >though... ;-) >Dave Yates > > >------------- > >Well, whimsically speaking, you *can* park your moto inside your living >room. (It prolly helps enormously being spouse-free to attempt such a >manuever) You *can* also sprint across the Capitol grounds toting a >shotgun. But not for long. In other words there is a difference between >what you *can* do and that which is reasonable and prudent. :) Seems to >me the main daily DC rag (the one that carries the inevitable tag line "of >record") should strike a blow for reason and prudence in such situations. > >I dunno why I get so worked up over Gridlock's inane column in the first >place. :) > > > > > >Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org >95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] > _________________________________________________________________ Check out the coupons and bargains on MSN Offers! http://youroffers.msn.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 11:31:06 2004 Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 11:31:00 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: The hazards of moto advocacy To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Perry bragged to the list: >You can also re-install the engine in a KZ1100-D1 (shaft .drive, BTW) in your living room, but it is an >absolute requirement (or was for me) that the >spousal unit be gone for the weekend. > >Hey! It was raining and the patio was uncovered. > >We did roll it outside before we actually test fired >it... ;^) [Dave] Why? You _do_ know that the REAL purpose for dryer vent hose is actually to put over the moto exhaust to vent outside, right?! Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 11:39:52 2004 From: "Perry Coleman" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: The hazards of moto advocacy Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 11:39:43 -0400 Yeah, but the dryer was in a cubby in the kitchen (old townhouse) and it would have been a tight fit. ;^) Of course, I didn't have the Kerker 4-1 exhaust yet, so getting the vent hose over both left and right mufflers might have been a challenge! We actually considerered backing it over to the sliding door, but it wasn't actively raining anymore and we figured what the heck... Oh, and it started on the first try and didn't squirt oil or gas or parts... ;^) Perry >From: Dave Yates >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: The hazards of moto advocacy >Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 11:31:00 -0400 > >Perry bragged to the list: > > >You can also re-install the engine in a KZ1100-D1 >(shaft .drive, BTW) in your living room, but it is an > >absolute requirement (or was for me) that the > >spousal unit be gone for the weekend. > > > >Hey! It was raining and the patio was uncovered. > > > >We did roll it outside before we actually test fired > >it... ;^) > >[Dave] Why? You _do_ know that the REAL purpose for dryer >vent hose is actually to put over the moto exhaust to vent >outside, right?! > > >Dave Yates > _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar )B– get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 11:47:27 2004 Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 08:47:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Leon Begeman Subject: Re: Motorcycle Permit To: Rob Sharp , DC-Cycles Cc: Jeremy Riggs My info is a couple of years old, but the way it used to work is that you got to the MVA, pay your money and take the written test. They issue a separate motorcyle learners permit for you to carry around while you learn to ride. When you are ready, you either take the MSF course or come back to the MVA and take the riding part of the test. Then they test your eyes and re-issue your driver's license with the motorcycle endorsement. Virginia is similar. Leon. --- Rob Sharp wrote: > My friends wants to get his motorcycle learners > permit. He is in Maryland. > I poked around the MVA site but couldn't find > anything really other than > applying for a car learner permit. He already has > his license. > > Also is there a seperate motorcycle permit manual > ? All I could find was a > general one. I know the test can be that hard but > something to study with > would rock. > > I got my license in NYS so I got no clue how it > works here. > > Any tips ? > > Rob > > > > -- > Rob Sharp > 1996 Honda VFR 750 > 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme > SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA > Network Security Engineer > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 11:50:06 2004 From: To: DC-Cycles CC: Jeremy Riggs Subject: Re: Re: Motorcycle Permit Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 11:49:59 -0400 I don't know if motorcycle learners permits are the same as cage permits but some states only allow driving in *their* state and are not valid out of state. Something it might be a good idea to check into. My daughers drivers/learners permit in Va. is only valid in Va. until it's a full license. -aki > > From: Leon Begeman > Date: 2004/06/07 Mon AM 11:47:24 EDT > To: Rob Sharp , DC-Cycles > CC: Jeremy Riggs > Subject: Re: Motorcycle Permit > > My info is a couple of years old, but the way it used > to work is that you got to the MVA, pay your money and > take the written test. They issue a separate > motorcyle learners permit for you to carry around > while you learn to ride. > > When you are ready, you either take the MSF course or > come back to the MVA and take the riding part of the > test. Then they test your eyes and re-issue your > driver's license with the motorcycle endorsement. > > Virginia is similar. > > Leon. > --- Rob Sharp wrote: > > My friends wants to get his motorcycle learners > > permit. He is in Maryland. > > I poked around the MVA site but couldn't find > > anything really other than > > applying for a car learner permit. He already has > > his license. > > > > Also is there a seperate motorcycle permit manual > > ? All I could find was a > > general one. I know the test can be that hard but > > something to study with > > would rock. > > > > I got my license in NYS so I got no clue how it > > works here. > > > > Any tips ? > > > > Rob > > > > > > > > -- > > Rob Sharp > > 1996 Honda VFR 750 > > 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme > > SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA > > Network Security Engineer > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. > http://messenger.yahoo.com/ > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 11:55:21 2004 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: Mike Bartman , Mark Kitchell , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Open face vs. Full-face helmets Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 11:55:09 -0400 > > From: Mike Bartman > > No need for list management to suggest taking this private. I won't be > wasting time on Kitchell again. > Thank God. The fewer posts we have to read from you on the "safety" issue the better. Bob Meyer Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" '92 ST1100, "red STag" '02 919, "still looking for a name" A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers.... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 11:57:24 2004 Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 12:01:27 -0400 Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Saturday=92s?= moto mystery. To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "garcia oliver" Saturday)B’s moto mystery. Saturday, 1 p.m. I have a 1983 GS1100, with a hidden kill switch in series with the main fuse. It had been raining overnight and the bike)B’s uncovered and has no side covers. I went to ride and the bike took a few seconds to start---longer than normal, but rain tends to have that effect. After a mile of normal riding, it suddenly lost power and I could barely keep the engine running; seemed like it was firing on, perhaps, 2 cylinders. Instrument lights were flickering. Increasing throttle did not increase rpm. I pulled over, prepared to park and arrange a tow. [Your first guess as to what happened goes here. I thought: pickup or ignition coil died, perhaps related to water. However, this seemed inconsistent with one or more observation from above)B…[you may pause to re-read first paragraph] )B…which is]… (1) why throttle increase did not increase engine speed?; (2) why flickering lights?] Since I was about to turn off the engine with the key, I decided, for no apparent reason, to try the horn first. Suddenly all cylinders were firing and lights stopped flickering. Wtf? Horn and lights were dim, but engine ran. As long as I kept my thumb on the horn the bike ran ok. I then tried the rear brake instead of the horn)B…and this worked, too! As long as the brake light was on, the engine was ok. So I rode home with the rear brake lightly on. When I got there (and not before) I tried the brake *and* the horn together. Engine died. No lights. No electric power at all. Checked the battery connections, which seemed ok. So: bad battery, bad ignition switch, blown main fuse, or bad hidden kill switch. Flipped hidden kill switch and all the lights went on and the engine started. So)B…what was going on? Answer in next email. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 11:58:05 2004 Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 11:57:58 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: The hazards of moto advocacy To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Perry Whines some more: >Yeah, but the dryer was in a cubby in the kitchen (old >townhouse) and it would have been a tight fit. ;^) [Dave] Puh. Leeze. Next you're going to tell me that you couldn't get in the door due to the stairs... > Of course, I didn't have the Kerker 4-1 exhaust yet, so >getting the vent hose over both left and right mufflers >might have been a challenge! [Dave] "Always with you, it cannot be done." - Yoda. that stuff is cheap, and they do have Y connectors ! > >We actually considerered backing it over to the sliding >door, but it wasn't actively raining anymore and we figured >what the heck... > >Oh, and it started on the first try and didn't squirt oil or >gas or parts... [Dave] Well, that's a plus. Hopefully there was no backfiring involved either :-O whirr, whirr, whirr...bladabladabladablad... kaBOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMM.... err... uhh... sorry honey... didn't mean to wake you... Yup, I was juuuuust about to move the bike back outside... ;-) Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 12:00:00 2004 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: Mike Bartman , Mark Kitchell , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Open face vs. Full-face helmets Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 11:59:52 -0400 > From: Mike Bartman > > At 07:34 PM 6/6/04 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote: > >Ah, everyone except you was fully in favor of > >full-face helmets, so there was consensus. > > Everyone who replied. Many probably just skipped it, to avoid the > inevitable interaction with assholes like you. Got to love this logic: everyone who DIDN'T reply would have supported you, right? Sort of like Nixon's "silent majority." > Keep at it, and eventually your reading ability will grow to the point > where you can cope with even more than four whole paragraphs at a time! And maybe someday your writing ability will grow to the point where you can make your point with logic that holds together for more than 3 sentences, and without being obnoxious, foul mouthed, and a walking caricature of a "biker." If anyone around here deserves the moniker of "asshole," I think its people who can't get their point across without using words like "asshole." You're quite welcome, Bob Meyer Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" '92 ST1100, "red STag" '02 919, "still looking for a name" A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers.... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 12:00:36 2004 Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 12:00:03 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Common' guys.... On Mon, 7 Jun 2004, David Blumgart wrote: > > But I've spent 20 years communicating on BBS's, Somehow, since you claim to have 20 years of experience, and yet you've still responded to these goobers, I sorta expected your note to be not actually include any words with N's and D's in them. That's "N" as in "(N)ext Message" and "D" as in "(D)elete message" On this list, they tend to be keys you'll use frequently. -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 12:03:53 2004 From: To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Common' guys.... Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 12:03:47 -0400 > > From: "Daniel H. Brown" > Date: 2004/06/07 Mon PM 12:00:03 EDT > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Common' guys.... > > On Mon, 7 Jun 2004, David Blumgart wrote: > > > > But I've spent 20 years communicating on BBS's, > > Somehow, since you claim to have 20 years of experience, and yet you've > still responded to these goobers, I sorta expected your note to be not > actually include any words with N's and D's in them. > > That's "N" as in "(N)ext Message" and "D" as in "(D)elete message" > > On this list, they tend to be keys you'll use frequently. > yup...and if you have a thin skin, this isn't the place for you. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 12:09:21 2004 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: "Perry Coleman" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: The hazards of moto advocacy Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 12:09:14 -0400 > From: "Perry Coleman" > You can also re-install the engine in a KZ1100-D1 (shaft drive, BTW) in your > living room, but it is an absolute requirement (or was for me) that the > spousal unit be gone for the weekend. Reminds me of the time I did a complete top-end job on a Honda CB350 engine in the ground floor apartment I rented while in college. Everything went great until it came time to add the oil..... No one TOLD me to put the oil drain plug in first! Oh, well, a little strategic rearranging of the furniture, and a used throw rug, and no one could tell the difference. Thank goodness the room wasn't carpeted, though. Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" '92 ST1100, "red STag" '02 919, "still looking for a name" A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers.... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 12:17:46 2004 Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 12:17:38 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: "Verde,Robert" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: The hazards of moto advocacy -----Original Message----- "Verde, Robert" whipped out Occam's Razor and opined: Looking for the simplest possible explanation for the "aggressive editing," I wonder if the moped parking example was suggested by TV shows like "Oliver's Twist," a Brit cooking show where Jamie Oliver, the eponymous chef, is depicted shopping at the local market on his scooter, and then parking his ride inside the ground floor of his town-house. While I certainly don't approve of such egregious editing for no apparent reason, ascribing deliberate malice to the individual in question may be a mistake. ----- I s'pose. You know the saying "never assume malice when stupidity will suffice." An apt description of some of the more obnoxious posters to MC lists. Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 12:23:46 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 12:23:19 EDT Subject: Re: Hey, Shafties, quick question.... To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/7/2004 10:11:53 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jmstrang@XXXXXX writes: > I trust me a hell of a lot more than the typical wage > slave at the typical bike shop. And unfortunately the odds are that they will not use (waste) an experienced mechanic on the job, they will use the "grunt." That is not meant to insult the low man on the totem, we all have to start somewhere. Just that most of us actually have more experience and be more familiar with _our_ bike then the guy a shop uses for a tire/wheel change. > Disk brake calipers were hung with the > greatest of care (and zipties). All parts were lovingly inspected for > unusual and/or excessive wear. Every fastener was torqued to spec, with > locktite as appropriate. Lube-needing parts were. Unless you go to a truly remarkable shop little of that care will be taken. Most shops fall into the "free labor" trap of paying strictly commission and like it or not that forces mechanics to take shortcuts, or starve. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC 1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European 1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles 1976, Honda CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 12:26:15 2004 From: "Rob Keiser" To: rob@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: dic_riggs@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Motorcycle Permit Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 12:14:41 -0400 I believe there is. He should be able to go to any MVA and pick up the book to study for the 20(?) question Computer test. Rob '98 VFR800 From: "Rob Sharp" To: "DC-Cycles" CC: "Jeremy Riggs" Subject: Motorcycle Permit Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 17:18:56 -0400 My friends wants to get his motorcycle learners permit. He is in Maryland. I poked around the MVA site but couldn't find anything really other than applying for a car learner permit. He already has his license. Also is there a seperate motorcycle permit manual ? All I could find was a general one. I know the test can be that hard but something to study with would rock. I got my license in NYS so I got no clue how it works here. Any tips ? Rob -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 12:31:00 2004 Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 09:30:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: RE: Motorcycle Permit To: Rob Keiser , rob@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: dic_riggs@XXXXXX from what i remember, the test is moto-specific and passing requires 85% (17/20) correct multiple choice questions. once passed, you have 6 months or so to pass the riding test. i seriously recommend your friend locate the mva materials to study from. the multiple choice questions are somewhat odd and i disagree with many of the "answers" (which can be found in the guide). --- Rob Keiser wrote: > I believe there is. He should be able to go to any MVA > and pick up the book > to study for the 20(?) question Computer test. > > Rob > '98 VFR800 > > > From: "Rob Sharp" > To: "DC-Cycles" > CC: "Jeremy Riggs" > Subject: Motorcycle Permit > Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 17:18:56 -0400 > > My friends wants to get his motorcycle learners > permit. He is in > Maryland. > I poked around the MVA site but couldn't find anything > really other than > applying for a car learner permit. He already has his > license. > > Also is there a seperate motorcycle permit manual ? > All I could find was > a > general one. I know the test can be that hard but > something to study with > would rock. > > I got my license in NYS so I got no clue how it works > here. > > Any tips ? > > Rob > > > > -- > Rob Sharp > 1996 Honda VFR 750 > 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme > SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA > Network Security Engineer > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 12:32:33 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 12:32:22 EDT Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:=20Saturday=E2=80=99s=20moto=20mystery.?= To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/7/2004 11:57:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, garicao@XXXXXX writes: > So_what was going on? Wheeeee! Some fun. When electrical shit get wierd I start with the ground. Looking forward to hearing what it was. And I am very glad _you_ figured it out, it would have driven me nuts. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 12:40:22 2004 From: "Sean Steele" To: "DC Cycles" Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 12:39:49 -0400 Subject: Weekly maintenance inquiry: Vol 1, No 5 1. Changed oil, rode 500+ miles this past weekend and from 2nd gear up when I really revved the engine the clutch slipped very badly -- is that normal for a fresh oil change or are my plates in need of replacing? 2. When to sync carbs before I left, found 4 screws covering vaccuum holes fused to carb assemblies (steel to aluminum methinks) -- do I EZout the malignant screws, retap and replace, OR EZout and put in some sort of threaded tube with a rubber cover... any ideas? Thanks. Sorry I couldn't be more menstrual and attempt to insult someone on the list. Mebbe next time. -Sean WAR-shington, DC '92 Seca II "Oooh, my aching rump... I need a Corbin!" From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 12:40:33 2004 X-OB-Received: from unknown (205.158.62.49) by wfilter.us4.outblaze.com; 7 Jun 2004 16:39:45 -0000 From: "David Blumgart" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 11:40:12 -0500 Subject: Common' guys >> Somehow, since you claim to have 20 years of experience, and yet >> you've still responded to these goobers, I sorta expected your note to >> be not actually include any words with N's and D's in them. >> >> That's "N" as in "(N)ext Message" and "D" as in "(D)elete message" >> >> On this list, they tend to be keys you'll use frequently. >yup...and if you have a thin skin, this isn't the place for you. Sure, I can delete with the best of them. And I can, as it sounds like you have, just learn to ignore the nasty stuff. But, you know, it's unpleasant. It would be better if it wasn't there, no? More important, it's been my experience that it tends to drive away exactly the forum/list members that could have made the greatest contribution. Some sort of Gresham's Law variant. Listen. I know that list members will get heatedly engaged on any topic imaginable. Like you wrote, if you can't stand it, stay out of the kitchen. But it's one thing to encounter "Well that's the sort of pig-ignorance I've come to expect from you non-creative garbage." (tip o'the hat to Mr. Cleese) and quite another to read (for the Nth time) "F*** y**, too, you ******* *******!" Who needs it? -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 12:41:12 2004 From: "Perry Coleman" To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Saturday)Bâs moto mystery. Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 12:41:05 -0400 I'm with you. First thing to check in that case is the ground. Reminds me of the time I had wired in a couple of Fiam horns in place of the crappy stockers. They were LOUD! Of course, I didn't have enough sense to wire in a relay, so the electrics got real funky. They turned into a sort of wet-weather engine kill/alarm setup. It actually worked when someone tried to steal the bike out of the apartment parking lot one drizzly night. It did not endear me with the people that lived in the ground floor apartment right in front of where I was parked, however... ;^) Perry >From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: Saturday)B’s moto mystery. >Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 12:32:22 EDT > >In a message dated 6/7/2004 11:57:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >garicao@XXXXXX writes: > > > So_what was going on? > >Wheeeee! Some fun. >When electrical shit get wierd I start with the ground. >Looking forward to hearing what it was. >And I am very glad _you_ figured it out, it would have driven me nuts. > >John. >PenguinBiker@XXXXXX > _________________________________________________________________ Looking to buy a house? Get informed with the Home Buying Guide from MSN House & Home. http://coldwellbanker.msn.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 12:43:47 2004 From: "Perry Coleman" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Common' guys Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 12:43:35 -0400 Ah, someone quoting Monty Python (indvidually, or together)! You'll fit in just fine, sir... Perry >From: "David Blumgart" >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Common' guys >Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 11:40:12 -0500 > > >> Somehow, since you claim to have 20 years of experience, and yet > >> you've still responded to these goobers, I sorta expected your note to > >> be not actually include any words with N's and D's in them. > >> > >> That's "N" as in "(N)ext Message" and "D" as in "(D)elete message" > >> > >> On this list, they tend to be keys you'll use frequently. > > >yup...and if you have a thin skin, this isn't the place for you. > >Sure, I can delete with the best of them. And I can, as it sounds like you >have, just learn to ignore the nasty stuff. But, you know, it's >unpleasant. It would be better if it wasn't there, no? More important, >it's been my experience that it tends to drive away exactly the forum/list >members that could have made the greatest contribution. Some sort of >Gresham's Law variant. > >Listen. I know that list members will get heatedly engaged on any topic >imaginable. Like you wrote, if you can't stand it, stay out of the kitchen. > But it's one thing to encounter "Well that's the sort of pig-ignorance >I've come to expect from you non-creative garbage." (tip o'the hat to Mr. >Cleese) and quite another to read (for the Nth time) "F*** y**, too, you >******* *******!" Who needs it? > > >-- >___________________________________________________________ >Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com >http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm > _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee)B® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 12:44:46 2004 X-OB-Received: from unknown (205.158.62.49) by wfilter.us4.outblaze.com; 7 Jun 2004 16:44:02 -0000 From: "David Blumgart" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 11:44:39 -0500 Subject: Now with actual motorcycling content.... Has any list member had recent experience with either of these two repair shops? The bike in question would be a GS500E. Can they get it right the first time? Precision Cycle Works, Beltsville, MD Myers Cycle Engineering, Kensington, MD -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 12:48:46 2004 From: "Perry Coleman" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Now with actual motorcycling content.... Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 12:48:37 -0400 Myers Cycle Engineering, Kensington, MD - I've not used them, but I have been there. I was there because of a favorable recommendation, however. I talked with some of the people there about a project I was thinking about doing and they seemed pretty sharp. That was a few years ago, so things may have changed. (I ended up not doing the project, but I would have gone back to them, if I had). Perry >From: "David Blumgart" >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Now with actual motorcycling content.... >Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 11:44:39 -0500 > >Has any list member had recent experience with either of these two repair >shops? The bike in question would be a GS500E. Can they get it right the >first time? > > >Precision Cycle Works, Beltsville, MD > >Myers Cycle Engineering, Kensington, MD >-- >___________________________________________________________ >Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com >http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm > _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar )B– get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 12:55:18 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 12:55:01 EDT Subject: Re: Weekly maintenance inquiry: Vol 1, No 5 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/7/2004 12:40:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, sean@XXXXXX writes: > from 2nd gear up > when I really revved the engine the clutch slipped very badly -- is that > normal Not just no but HELL NO! Did you use any additives? Did you use a viscosity _way_ out of the recommended range? Did you adjust your clutch? There _must_ be freeplay in the lever before it starts to pull the cable (or squeeze the fluid.) Any of the above could cause the problem. There is also some debate over using low friction automotive grade oils with motorcycle clutches, but I would not think the difference would be that severe that quickly. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 12:57:23 2004 Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 09:46:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Common' guys To: David Blumgart , dc-cycles@XXXXXX David: Points taken. This list is not so bad really. There was precious little controversey over the half hemlet issue since most of us here realize its an easy choice. Most of us choose safety over all else in our gear. Mike B. is without a doubt the #1 controversial lightingrod on this list. His ability to think he is right on every subject and his inability to write succinctly is ledgendary. Luckily his is pretty much a legend in his own mind and never shows his face outside of email world. You will find this list has many experts on motorcycling, whether its gear, riding technique, mechanics, great roads, etc. From time to time so of us even meet up and so far, no fists have been flying! Anyway, what do you ride and why do you ride it? Mark --- David Blumgart wrote: > >> Somehow, since you claim to have 20 years of > experience, and yet > >> you've still responded to these goobers, I sorta > expected your note to > >> be not actually include any words with N's and > D's in them. > >> > >> That's "N" as in "(N)ext Message" and "D" as in > "(D)elete message" > >> > >> On this list, they tend to be keys you'll use > frequently. > > >yup...and if you have a thin skin, this isn't the > place for you. > > Sure, I can delete with the best of them. And I > can, as it sounds like you have, just learn to > ignore the nasty stuff. But, you know, it's > unpleasant. It would be better if it wasn't there, > no? More important, it's been my experience that > it tends to drive away exactly the forum/list > members that could have made the greatest > contribution. Some sort of Gresham's Law variant. > > Listen. I know that list members will get heatedly > engaged on any topic imaginable. Like you wrote, if > you can't stand it, stay out of the kitchen. But > it's one thing to encounter "Well that's the sort of > pig-ignorance I've come to expect from you > non-creative garbage." (tip o'the hat to Mr. Cleese) > and quite another to read (for the Nth time) "F*** > y**, too, you ******* *******!" Who needs it? > > > -- > ___________________________________________________________ > Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com > http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 13:02:29 2004 From: To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Common' guys Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 13:02:22 -0400 > > From: "David Blumgart" > Date: 2004/06/07 Mon PM 12:40:12 EDT > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Common' guys > > >> Somehow, since you claim to have 20 years of experience, and yet > >> you've still responded to these goobers, I sorta expected your note to > >> be not actually include any words with N's and D's in them. > >> > >> That's "N" as in "(N)ext Message" and "D" as in "(D)elete message" > >> > >> On this list, they tend to be keys you'll use frequently. > > >yup...and if you have a thin skin, this isn't the place for you. > > Sure, I can delete with the best of them. And I can, as it sounds like you have, just learn to ignore the nasty stuff. But, you know, it's unpleasant. It would be better if it wasn't there, no? More important, it's been my experience that it tends to drive away exactly the forum/list members that could have made the greatest contribution. Some sort of Gresham's Law variant. > > Listen. I know that list members will get heatedly engaged on any topic imaginable. Like you wrote, if you can't stand it, stay out of the kitchen. But it's one thing to encounter "Well that's the sort of pig-ignorance I've come to expect from you non-creative garbage." (tip o'the hat to Mr. Cleese) and quite another to read (for the Nth time) "F*** y**, too, you ******* *******!" Who needs it? > I know exactly where you're coming from. Flame wars are a dime a dozen in just about any newsgroup out there. Many of the more prolific posters here are very different people IRL. Maybe it has something to do with hiding behind a keyboard, or just plain boredom at work. Either way, I don't *think* many people actually take the banter here seriously. At least I don't. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 13:05:44 2004 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Common' guys.... Content-ID: <24328.1086627913.1@XXXXXX> Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 13:05:13 -0400 From: Harry Mantakos >> That's "N" as in "(N)ext Message" and "D" as in "(D)elete message" >> >> On this list, they tend to be keys you'll use frequently. > >yup...and if you have a thin skin, this isn't the place for you. These are all true, however the correct answer is that the posters who send messages consisting of nothing but some variant of "you're an asshole" need to apply a little self-control. That's not a message that really needs to be delivered to the mailboxes of 283 motorcyclists. In other words, no bitch-slapping on the list! I don't mean to suggest that there's a "you must be nice to people" rule in the dc-cycles constitution, the point is that once the discussion gets purely personal, it ceases to have any relevance to motorcycling, and thus ceases to be appropriate for the list. If you feel that it's important that you communicate "you're an asshole" to somebody, tell them directly, I'm sure they'll appreciate the personal touch. I'm hoping to avoid the institution of some kind of idiotic "time out" program or something to enforce what should be common sense. -harry From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 13:07:16 2004 Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 10:07:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Weekly maintenance inquiry: Vol 1, No 5 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Sean Steele wrote: > > Sorry I couldn't be more menstrual and attempt to insult someone on the > list. Mebbe next time. Heh, I think you just did. Now apologize to the ladies ;-) > > -Sean > WAR-shington, DC > '92 Seca II "Oooh, my aching rump... I need a Corbin!" Or a Mustang. I like my Corbin seat but it took three tries for them to get it right. Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 13:08:21 2004 From: "Perry Coleman" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Common' guys Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 13:08:13 -0400 Wow! A reasonable response from a Harley rider... :^P Perry >From: >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: Common' guys >Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 13:02:22 -0400 > > > > > > From: "David Blumgart" > > Date: 2004/06/07 Mon PM 12:40:12 EDT > > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > Subject: Common' guys > > > > >> Somehow, since you claim to have 20 years of experience, and yet > > >> you've still responded to these goobers, I sorta expected your note >to > > >> be not actually include any words with N's and D's in them. > > >> > > >> That's "N" as in "(N)ext Message" and "D" as in "(D)elete message" > > >> > > >> On this list, they tend to be keys you'll use frequently. > > > > >yup...and if you have a thin skin, this isn't the place for you. > > > > Sure, I can delete with the best of them. And I can, as it sounds like >you have, just learn to ignore the nasty stuff. But, you know, it's >unpleasant. It would be better if it wasn't there, no? More important, >it's been my experience that it tends to drive away exactly the forum/list >members that could have made the greatest contribution. Some sort of >Gresham's Law variant. > > > > Listen. I know that list members will get heatedly engaged on any topic >imaginable. Like you wrote, if you can't stand it, stay out of the kitchen. > But it's one thing to encounter "Well that's the sort of pig-ignorance >I've come to expect from you non-creative garbage." (tip o'the hat to Mr. >Cleese) and quite another to read (for the Nth time) "F*** y**, too, you >******* *******!" Who needs it? > > > >I know exactly where you're coming from. Flame wars are >a dime a dozen in just about any newsgroup out there. Many of the more >prolific posters here are very different people >IRL. Maybe it has something to do with hiding behind a keyboard, or just >plain boredom at work. Either way, I don't *think* many people actually >take the banter here seriously. At least I don't. > > _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar )B– get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 13:11:54 2004 Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 13:11:47 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Weekly maintenance inquiry: Vol 1, No 5 On Mon, 7 Jun 2004, Sean Steele wrote: > > 2. When to sync carbs before I left, found 4 screws covering vaccuum > holes fused to carb assemblies (steel to aluminum methinks) -- do I > EZout the malignant screws, retap and replace, OR EZout and put in some > sort of threaded tube with a rubber cover... any ideas? Tap gently with hard object, apply penetrating lube, give it time to work, and try again, maybe? Or, if they're really crudded up, How much are replacement carb assemblies for your bike? -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 13:33:05 2004 From: "Sean Steele" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 13:32:33 -0400 Subject: Re: Weekly maintenance inquiry: Vol 1, No 5 Moto content: I used el cheapo 10W-30 oil with no additives or friction modifiers. This after initially buying full synthetic oil and getting waved off b/c my bike has never seen the stuff before... **** > Heh, I think you just did. Now apologize to the ladies ;-) Eeee-gads, Carl, you're dead right about that... My sincerest apologies to all of our female listers and those offended by my use of the word "menstrual". I myself have 4 sisters and they use that term on occasion to describe men who whine and bitch, err... complain (kvetch?) too much. Consider me suitably cowed by the entire experience ;-) -Sean WAR-shington, DC '92 Seca II "But he's a nice guy, I swear!" From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 13:33:17 2004 From: To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Common' guys Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 13:33:10 -0400 > > From: "Perry Coleman" > Date: 2004/06/07 Mon PM 01:08:13 EDT > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Common' guys > > Wow! A reasonable response from a Harley rider... :^P > > Perry > hey hey HEY! Don't let that get out. I've got a rep to uphold and all you know. ;-) obmoto - I own two full face helmets, a 3/4 and two shortys. I like them all, I just don't wear them all at the same time. -aki From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 13:50:17 2004 Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 13:50:16 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: Common' guys....back from the beach! At 10:39 AM 6/7/2004, David Blumgart wrote: >But I've spent 20 years communicating on BBS's, mail lists, Usenet, and >Web forums. I'll remind you guys that while heated disagreements are >inevitable, cursing and insults are very distructive to the comity that is >essential to a healthy e-community. Hey - I deleted a few hundred messages when I got home yesterday from the beach. Nice and relaxing in North Carolina. Ahhhhh. Couldn't believe how many guys trailered bikes down, cruised the main drag, then trailered them back up at night. Keep in mind, many of these wonks had North Carolina plates. Being bikeless all week (took the T-bird down with Rhonda) I came to hate the incessant revving of cruisers and sportbikes to get attention. I did note that they all had squared off tires from so rarely enjoying the sporting left and right turn aspects of their rides. Sigh. Anyhoo - David, this list has seen incredible flame wars through the years, but we remain a nice little community of guys and gals that help each other out and occasionally go on disastrous group rides with dozens of mixed experienced riders and well written map sheets. Occasionally, someone will disparage my favorite WD-40 and a bitch slap will ensue. Sometimes its helmet laws, concealed carry permits and shaft (ugh!) vs chain or lowly belt drive. But the core list members have been on here 7 or 8 years, some just about a decade. And we survive. Sometimes even flourish in the lively discussions. At least we all get to flex our finders on the delete key. _____________________________________ Mike Troutman mike@XXXXXX http://www.troutman.org/vfr '97 Honda VFR 750 AMA - http://www.amadirectlink.com/ NMA - http://www.motorists.org "I'd rather die while I'm living, then live while I'm dead." - Jimmy Buffett From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 14:30:54 2004 From: "Gary Foreman" To: "'DC-Cycles'" Subject: RE: Stoppie went bad today - bike landed on top of me Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 14:34:15 -0400 Well, my Mtn bike is VERY light. I can't imagine having a GSX-R1000 land on my back! Remember, it's good to learn from your mistakes...it's even better to learn from someone else's :-) Gary -----Original Message----- From: Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS) [mailto:Silvera@XXXXXX] Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 10:19 AM To: 'Gary Foreman'; 'DC-Cycles' Subject: RE: Stoppie went bad today - bike landed on top of me A friend of mine has a new ZX10r and is really good a stoppies he can do them one handed and almost straight up. A very frightening thing to watch. -----Original Message----- From: Gary Foreman [mailto:lists@XXXXXX] Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2004 6:42 PM To: 'DC-Cycles' Subject: Stoppie went bad today - bike landed on top of me I guess this is the reason people shouldn't do this crap. It was a low speed stoppie, and I shifted the weight forward and grabbed some front brake. Felt the back end rise, and then it happened so fast I couldn't release the front brake. I went down and the bike landed on top of me. Good thing this mountain bicycle is so light. Wife looked back and thought I was dead. The reason I didn't jump back up is I was laughing so damn hard I could hardly move. Glad it was in a remote location and only she saw me. I did some future stoppies after that, knowing what to expect with these damn good brakes. No, you won't catch me doing this on the GSX-R :-) Gary Foreman From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 15:15:40 2004 From: Jason Picton To: "'DC-Cycles'" Subject: work closed for me on Fri ..... Anyone want to ride Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 15:15:34 -0400 Work is closed on Fri for me.. so I am changing the oil and taking the FZ out for ride.... anyone else get lucky enough to get off.... Thinking bout heading down to 33 - not often I can get to it during the week..... anyone interested??? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 15:16:12 2004 Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 12:16:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Bryce Subject: Can someone verify that these are good roads in WV 4 me? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX During my trip down and back to the Smokies next week I want to hit some WV roads...actually a lot of them. Specifically the Roads around Clarksburg and Morgantown, WV. It seems like anywhere ya go the roads looks nice on paper. But I'm wondering if some are newly paved, some are less known for gravel than others, some have less roads coming off them and less traffic etc. etc. Here are some screen shots: http://www.geocities.com/bster13/WV_1.JPG http://www.geocities.com/bster13/WV_2.JPG http://www.geocities.com/bster13/WV_3.JPG http://www.geocities.com/bster13/WV_4.JPG I've had a couple of bad experiences where I've picked the twistiest road on a map and it turns into Dirt or some backroad. I'd like to stay to roads with Route #s as opposed to names. Thanks! Bryce __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 15:22:23 2004 Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 15:22:14 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: work closed for me on Fri ..... Anyone want to ride X-AOL-IP: 65.86.98.162 X-AOL-Language: english I'm hoping that our office is closed on Friday. Afterall, their policy is that if the Federal Government is open, we're open. Not sure what I'm gonna do if we get the day off. Might head to the folks house in PA for a long weekend. :-) Scooter In a message dated 6/7/2004 3:15:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, j_picton@XXXXXX writes: > > > > Work is closed on Fri for me.. so I am changing the oil and taking the FZ > out for ride.... anyone else get lucky enough to get off.... > > Thinking bout heading down to 33 - not often I can get to > it during the > week..... anyone interested??? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 15:36:43 2004 From: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" To: "'Gary Foreman'" , "'DC-Cycles'" Subject: RE: Stoppie went bad today - bike landed on top of me Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 15:36:23 -0400 Oh yeah, I've seen him mess up before. That's why I watch and not try it. -----Original Message----- From: Gary Foreman [mailto:lists@XXXXXX] Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 2:34 PM To: 'DC-Cycles' Subject: RE: Stoppie went bad today - bike landed on top of me Well, my Mtn bike is VERY light. I can't imagine having a GSX-R1000 land on my back! Remember, it's good to learn from your mistakes...it's even better to learn from someone else's :-) Gary -----Original Message----- From: Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS) [mailto:Silvera@XXXXXX] Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 10:19 AM To: 'Gary Foreman'; 'DC-Cycles' Subject: RE: Stoppie went bad today - bike landed on top of me A friend of mine has a new ZX10r and is really good a stoppies he can do them one handed and almost straight up. A very frightening thing to watch. -----Original Message----- From: Gary Foreman [mailto:lists@XXXXXX] Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2004 6:42 PM To: 'DC-Cycles' Subject: Stoppie went bad today - bike landed on top of me I guess this is the reason people shouldn't do this crap. It was a low speed stoppie, and I shifted the weight forward and grabbed some front brake. Felt the back end rise, and then it happened so fast I couldn't release the front brake. I went down and the bike landed on top of me. Good thing this mountain bicycle is so light. Wife looked back and thought I was dead. The reason I didn't jump back up is I was laughing so damn hard I could hardly move. Glad it was in a remote location and only she saw me. I did some future stoppies after that, knowing what to expect with these damn good brakes. No, you won't catch me doing this on the GSX-R :-) Gary Foreman From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 15:42:05 2004 Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 12:42:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Bryce Subject: Re: Can someone verify that these are good roads in WV 4 me? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Dang it, my bandwidth already got used up. :p Here they are in yahoo photos: http://tinyurl.com/2nwtl Thanks! Bryce --- Bryce wrote: > During my trip down and back to the Smokies next > week > I want to hit some WV roads...actually a lot of > them. > > Specifically the Roads around Clarksburg and > Morgantown, WV. It seems like anywhere ya go the > roads > looks nice on paper. But I'm wondering if some are > newly paved, some are less known for gravel than > others, some have less roads coming off them and > less > traffic etc. etc. Here are some screen shots: > > http://www.geocities.com/bster13/WV_1.JPG > http://www.geocities.com/bster13/WV_2.JPG > http://www.geocities.com/bster13/WV_3.JPG > http://www.geocities.com/bster13/WV_4.JPG > > I've had a couple of bad experiences where I've > picked > the twistiest road on a map and it turns into Dirt > or > some backroad. I'd like to stay to roads with Route > #s > as opposed to names. > > Thanks! > > Bryce > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. > http://messenger.yahoo.com/ > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 17:07:07 2004 Subject: RE: Now with actual motorcycling content.... Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 17:07:02 -0400 From: "Sean Brady" To: "David Blumgart" , I've taken my Triumph to Myers on the recommendation by a friend, and found them professional and competent. Thumbs up here! ________________________________________ -----Original Message----- From: David Blumgart [mailto:mojohand@XXXXXX] Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 12:45 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Now with actual motorcycling content.... Has any list member had recent experience with either of these two repair shops? The bike in question would be a GS500E. Can they get it right the first time? Precision Cycle Works, Beltsville, MD Myers Cycle Engineering, Kensington, MD -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 17:53:40 2004 Reply-To: From: "stephen" To: Subject: Stolen Motorscooter Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 17:47:55 -0400 Honda 1962 C-100 Supercub. VIN: C100D014098 Location: 8510 16th Street (@ E/W Highway in SS) License: 009725 Washington State Last Seen: 6/4/2004 in the parking lot. Stephen From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 18:12:27 2004 Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 18:16:43 -0400 Subject: Re: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Saturday=92s?= moto mystery. To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "garcia oliver" A bad ground is a likely suspect for weird electrical gremlins. I don)B’t think it)B’s the culprit this time because there’s a single ground cable and wiggling it had no effect on the problem. A bare positive wire grounding due to water is more plausible, except that flipping the hidden kill switch immediately fixed everything. I suspect the following: I had left the hidden switch in the )B“off” [open circuit to the main fuse] position. Rain had gotten into the switch and was conductive enough that the switch was )B“on” even in the “off” position, which is why the bike started and ran for a while. As the switch heated up, water evaporated and the switch started to work )B“properly” (i.e., kill all power to the main fuse). Good theory? Or am I, ah, all wet? What I still don)B’t understand is why the horn or brake switch allowed the engine to run. And why both combined killed the engine and all electric power. Anyone have ideas? "garcia oliver" writes: >Saturday)B’s moto mystery. > >Saturday, 1 p.m. I have a 1983 GS1100, with a hidden kill switch in >series with the main fuse. It had been raining overnight and the bike)B’s >uncovered and has no side covers. I went to ride and the bike took a few >seconds to start---longer than normal, but rain tends to have that effect. > After a mile of normal riding, it suddenly lost power and I could barely >keep the engine running; seemed like it was firing on, perhaps, 2 >cylinders. Instrument lights were flickering. Increasing throttle did >not increase rpm. I pulled over, prepared to park and arrange a tow. > >[Your first guess as to what happened goes here. I thought: pickup or >ignition coil died, perhaps related to water. However, this seemed >inconsistent with one or more observation from above)B…[you may pause to >re-read first paragraph] > >)B…which is]… > >(1) why throttle increase did not increase engine speed?; (2) why >flickering lights?] > > >Since I was about to turn off the engine with the key, I decided, for no >apparent reason, to try the horn first. Suddenly all cylinders were >firing and lights stopped flickering. Wtf? Horn and lights were dim, but >engine ran. > >As long as I kept my thumb on the horn the bike ran ok. I then tried the >rear brake instead of the horn)B…and this worked, too! As long as the brake >light was on, the engine was ok. So I rode home with the rear brake >lightly on. > >When I got there (and not before) I tried the brake *and* the horn >together. Engine died. No lights. No electric power at all. > >Checked the battery connections, which seemed ok. > >So: bad battery, bad ignition switch, blown main fuse, or bad hidden kill >switch. Flipped hidden kill switch and all the lights went on and the >engine started. > >So)B…what was going on? > >Answer in next email. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 18:55:00 2004 Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 15:54:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Leon Begeman Subject: Re: Saturdays moto mystery. To: garcia oliver , dc-cycles@XXXXXX > What I still don)B’t understand is why the horn or > brake switch allowed the > engine to run. And why both combined killed the > engine and all electric > power. This makes it sound like the alternator is providing all of the power. Without the horn, brake or battery to 'stabilize' the power, it doesn't work right. With both the brake and horn on, you were drawing more power than the alternator could provide. What happens when it's dry and you start the bike then hit the hidden kill switch? Does the alternator continue to provide enough current for things to keep working? If so, your kill switch is in the wrong place. It lets the bike keep running and just takes the battery out of the picture. Leon. --- garcia oliver wrote: > A bad ground is a likely suspect for weird > electrical gremlins. I don)B’t > think it)B’s the culprit this time because there’s a > single ground cable and > wiggling it had no effect on the problem. A bare > positive wire grounding > due to water is more plausible, except that flipping > the hidden kill > switch immediately fixed everything. > > I suspect the following: I had left the hidden > switch in the )B“off” [open > circuit to the main fuse] position. Rain had gotten > into the switch and > was conductive enough that the switch was )B“on” even > in the )B“off” position, > which is why the bike started and ran for a while. > As the switch heated > up, water evaporated and the switch started to work > )B“properly” (i.e., kill > all power to the main fuse). Good theory? Or am I, > ah, all wet? > > What I still don)B’t understand is why the horn or > brake switch allowed the > engine to run. And why both combined killed the > engine and all electric > power. > > Anyone have ideas? > > > "garcia oliver" writes: > >Saturday)B’s moto mystery. > > > >Saturday, 1 p.m. I have a 1983 GS1100, with a > hidden kill switch in > >series with the main fuse. It had been raining > overnight and the bike)B’s > >uncovered and has no side covers. I went to ride > and the bike took a few > >seconds to start---longer than normal, but rain > tends to have that effect. > > After a mile of normal riding, it suddenly lost > power and I could barely > >keep the engine running; seemed like it was firing > on, perhaps, 2 > >cylinders. Instrument lights were flickering. > Increasing throttle did > >not increase rpm. I pulled over, prepared to park > and arrange a tow. > > > >[Your first guess as to what happened goes here. I > thought: pickup or > >ignition coil died, perhaps related to water. > However, this seemed > >inconsistent with one or more observation from > above)B…[you may pause to > >re-read first paragraph] > > > >)B…which is]… > > > >(1) why throttle increase did not increase engine > speed?; (2) why > >flickering lights?] > > > > > >Since I was about to turn off the engine with the > key, I decided, for no > >apparent reason, to try the horn first. Suddenly > all cylinders were > >firing and lights stopped flickering. Wtf? Horn > and lights were dim, but > >engine ran. > > > >As long as I kept my thumb on the horn the bike ran > ok. I then tried the > >rear brake instead of the horn)B…and this worked, > too! As long as the brake > >light was on, the engine was ok. So I rode home > with the rear brake > >lightly on. > > > >When I got there (and not before) I tried the brake > *and* the horn > >together. Engine died. No lights. No electric > power at all. > > > >Checked the battery connections, which seemed ok. > > > >So: bad battery, bad ignition switch, blown main > fuse, or bad hidden kill > >switch. Flipped hidden kill switch and all the > lights went on and the > >engine started. > > > >So)B…what was going on? > > > >Answer in next email. > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 23:22:33 2004 From: "W.S." To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: RE: Myers Cycle reco Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 23:22:04 -0400 At one point 3-4 years ago they did several routines on an EN500 (Kaw cruiser-style) plus some addon wiring for me. Very satisfied. By appointment; when the confirming details were faxed days prior it was in-and-out same day. Steve, Mark and John at that time. Lots of experience and solutions. Bill S. / DC '99 VN750 > Work well when cared for. Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From: "David Blumgart" Has any list member had recent experience with either of these two repair shops? The bike in question would be a GS500E. Can they get it right the first time? Precision Cycle Works, Beltsville, MD Myers Cycle Engineering, Kensington, MD -- From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 7 23:22:33 2004 From: "W.S." To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: The hazards of moto advocacy Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 23:22:04 -0400 Paul, I had the same astonishment as others on seeing the Dr. G. posting -- "DC-Cycles Paul Wilson said that?" - and waited for a possible clarification to gel on the list. If time and public media controversy tradeoffs fall into place, after Dr. G. you might want to consider The Post Ombudsman for possible redress. Apparently the current officeholder is a Michael Getler, phone and email info on the Outlook editorial page. Of course, the whole thing may have been a gross typo of some kind. Bill S. / DC '99 VN750 > Mopeds? They never wave! Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From: Paul Wilson I wrote the following to Dr. Gridlock. Dear Dr. Gridlock, In the ongoing discussion on parking vexations in District neighborhoods, I've yet to see this solution: downsize your four-wheeler to a two-wheeler. I've been an all-season motorcycle commuter and errand-runner in DC for five years now. You'd be surprised how many parking spaces magically open up when you need a space only three or four feet wide. Motorcycles and scooters can also carry a prodigious amount of cargo when they are properly equipped. It goes without saying that they are very fuel efficient and generally cheaper to buy and operate than most cars. It's not a solution that will work for everyone, but it's another option to add to the mix. Sincerely yours, Paul Wilson ---------------------- Here's what got published. Try a Moped In the ongoing discussion on lack of parking in the District, I've yet to see this solution: downsize your four-wheeler to a two-wheeler. Easier to park, lots of cargo space, more fuel efficient, cheaper to buy and operate. Paul Wilson Washington Mopeds, I'm told, get 100 miles per gallon, cost $1,200 to $1,500 new, travel up to 45 mph, and you could probably park one inside your home. ---- Compare/contrast. Notice I said not word one about "mopeds" I said, "scooters and motorcycles" as in fully road-capable vehicles. Arrgh. Aggressive editing, a pre-existing agenda, or just plain stupid, you decide. Notice the "message" about using motorcycles for commuting and errand-running is completely lost, because the Grid chose to twist the meaning of my letter. As for parking *inside* one's home, I wonder what the fire department thinks about that helpful suggestion. Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 8 08:11:15 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 08:11:03 EDT Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:=20Saturday=E2=80=99s=20moto=20mystery.?= To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/7/2004 6:12:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, garicao@XXXXXX writes: > Good theory? Or am I, ah, all wet? Um, well, good, I guess, I mean it could be... > What I still don't understand is why the horn or brake switch allowed the > engine to run. And why both combined killed the engine and all electric > power. I still think it is a ground problem. Remember there are a _lot_ of grounds in the system, the cable is just the last link in the chain. When grounds go bad current tends to run "backwards" through whatever wire it can find, so activating something like a brake light could allow current flow to run into the ignition system through abnormal routes. (Keep in mind that a ground wire, say on the brake light switch, is "cold" until you press the brake. Then the ground is "hot" carrying current back to the battery (you hope.) That wire goes into a "rats nest" of interconnected ground wires (including the frame) and this allows current to flow damn near anywhere it wants to.) FYI: There have been bikes (Harley had a 90cc one) that would not run if the _tail_light_ burned out! A lot of mopeds work that way. Electricity is weird stuff. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC 1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European 1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles 1976, Honda CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 8 08:16:17 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 08:16:06 EDT Subject: Re: Saturdays moto mystery. To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/7/2004 6:55:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mriderleon@XXXXXX writes: > If so, your kill switch is in the wrong > place. It lets the bike keep running and just takes > the battery out of the picture. OH! DUH! Good call, damn good call. And applying the brake and horn at the same time would overload the alternator killing the bike. Again, Good call. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 8 08:21:11 2004 From: "John Finity" To: Subject: Transporting Honda CB750 Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 08:21:14 -0400 I'm picking up a bike from Detroit to transport back here to DC area. Thing is, I've never transported bike this size before. I'm renting a vehicle to drive up there since I don't have personal vehicle or trailer to haul the thing. (Yeah, waste your time scolding me about taking care of that ahead of time if you want.) I don't have trailer hitch cuz I'm switching cars shortly as well. So, question is - would this size bike fit into only a pickup, or would it fit semi-sideways into a large SUV or minivan? Or do 'you' just want to tag along and drive the thing back for me! From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 8 08:29:41 2004 Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 05:29:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Ray Subject: Re: Transporting Honda CB750 To: DC Cycles It *should* fit into the back of a minivan, but probably not a large SUV. If it gets tight, loosen the handlebar clamps and rotate the bars downward for extra room. Worked fine for my kz440ltd. Of course, the kz is probably a little smaller. Of course, make sure to tighten them before you go riding the thing.... Brian --- John Finity wrote: > I'm picking up a bike from Detroit to transport back > here to DC area. Thing > is, I've never transported bike this size before. > I'm renting a vehicle to > drive up there since I don't have personal vehicle > or trailer to haul the > thing. (Yeah, waste your time scolding me about > taking care of that ahead of > time if you want.) I don't have trailer hitch cuz > I'm switching cars shortly > as well. > > So, question is - would this size bike fit into only > a pickup, or would it > fit semi-sideways into a large SUV or minivan? Or do > 'you' just want to tag > along and drive the thing back for me! > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 8 08:43:10 2004 Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 05:43:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Hey, Shafties, quick question.... To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Jon Strang wrote: > Bartman: > > Piss off you silly fuck. You don't have the motorcycling > nor the mechanical > experience to even consider questioning my ability to > spin a wrench. Thirty > grand and thirty miles don't make you an expert, so shut > the fuck up. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 8 10:20:55 2004 From: purdyjeremy@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Open face vs. Full-face helmets Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 14:20:30 +0000 X-Authenticated-Sender: cHVyZHlqZXJlbXlAYXR0Lm5ldA== > From: Bob Meyer > > > From: Mike Bartman > > > > > At 07:34 PM 6/6/04 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote: > > >Ah, everyone except you was fully in favor of > > >full-face helmets, so there was consensus. > > > > Got to love this logic: everyone who DIDN'T reply would have supported you, > right? Sort of like Nixon's "silent majority." > No, not everyone. However, it is my belief that the majority of people who respond to questions about helmet use are either activists (either the safetycrats of this list or the no-helmet ever people) or people who just love to hear themselves talk. People who wear 3/4 helmets or 1/2 helmets don't fall into the safteycrat crowd, and the no-helmet people probably refuse to associate with the people on this list. I, personally, wear a 3/4 helmet (Snell M2000 certified) all year round. When it gets cold, I put a face shield on and wear a balaclava. Just fine, down to 20 degs. I have crashed but never low-sided. During my crash the helmet never touched the ground. Natuarlly anecdoatal evidence is worth nada, but you never get anything other than anecdotal evidence from anyone on this list. -- Jeremy Purdy '00 Yamaha V-Star From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 8 10:32:07 2004 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: lists@XXXXXX via smtp-1.hrnoc.net X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.20st (Clear:RC:1(216.120.225.30):. Processed in 0.023712 secs) Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 10:32:01 -0400 From: "Gary Foreman" To: "John Finity" , Subject: Re: Transporting Honda CB750 X-HR-Scan-Signature: d3331ee897f0426c8e20a94e49200d40 X-HR-SA-Score: () X-HR-Status: HR_AVScanned-(lists@XXXXXX/216.120.225.37) There are a lot of companies that will haul the bike for you. Look in the back of magazines. It may be cheaper than renting. I wouldn't do P/U or MiniVan unless I knew it had tie-down hooks. Iw should fit in even a small P/U with the tailgate down. Gary "John Finity" wrote: > I'm picking up a bike from Detroit to transport back here to DC area. Thing > is, I've never transported bike this size before. I'm renting a vehicle to > drive up there since I don't have personal vehicle or trailer to haul the > thing. (Yeah, waste your time scolding me about taking care of that ahead of > time if you want.) I don't have trailer hitch cuz I'm switching cars shortly > as well. > > So, question is - would this size bike fit into only a pickup, or would it > fit semi-sideways into a large SUV or minivan? Or do 'you' just want to tag > along and drive the thing back for me! > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 8 10:41:49 2004 Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 10:41:20 -0400 From: Brian Roach To: purdyjeremy@XXXXXX CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Open face vs. Full-face helmets purdyjeremy@XXXXXX wrote: > I, personally, wear a 3/4 helmet (Snell M2000 certified) all year round. When it gets cold, I put a face shield on and wear a balaclava. Just fine, down to 20 degs. I have crashed but never low-sided. During my crash the helmet never touched the ground. Natuarlly anecdoatal evidence is worth nada, but you never get anything other than anecdotal evidence from anyone on this list. The initial question was loaded to begin with. It's a no-brainer (no pun intended) that a full-face offers more protection than a 3/4 which offers more than a half. Risk vs. reward. It is obviously possible to fall from a motorcycle, and to land on your face when doing so. Many people have done it, many more people will. Each person has to decide if the reward of not wearing a full-face helmet is worth the risk of a possible facial injury. If you're an odds man, and think there's little chance of it actually happening, that's cool ... I'm not a betting man myself. I've had too much experience coming off race motorcycles to risk that. While I've never fallen on the street in 15 years, I accept the fact that it is still a possibility - however slight given my riding history - and I take the precautions I deem appropriate which includes a full-face helmet. When asked for my opinion on gear, that's what I'm going to suggest. - Roach -- http://www.speedwerks.com The one-stop shop for all your motorcycling needs! (302) 672 - 7223 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 8 13:39:56 2004 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: purdyjeremy@XXXXXX CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Open face vs. Full-face helmets Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 13:39:46 -0400 > > From: purdyjeremy@XXXXXX > Date: 2004/06/08 Tue AM 10:20:30 EDT > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Open face vs. Full-face helmets > > > > From: Bob Meyer > > > > > From: Mike Bartman > > > > > > > > At 07:34 PM 6/6/04 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote: > > > >Ah, everyone except you was fully in favor of > > > >full-face helmets, so there was consensus. > > > > > > > Got to love this logic: everyone who DIDN'T reply would have supported you, > > right? Sort of like Nixon's "silent majority." > > > > No, not everyone. However, it is my belief that the majority of people who respond to questions about helmet use are either activists (either the safetycrats of this list or the no-helmet ever people) or people who just love to hear themselves talk. > > People who wear 3/4 helmets or 1/2 helmets don't fall into the safteycrat crowd, and the no-helmet people probably refuse to associate with the people on this list. > > I, personally, wear a 3/4 helmet (Snell M2000 certified) all year round. When it gets cold, I put a face shield on and wear a balaclava. Just fine, down to 20 degs. I have crashed but never low-sided. During my crash the helmet never touched the ground. Natuarlly anecdoatal evidence is worth nada, but you never get anything other than anecdotal evidence from anyone on this list. I have no issue with what you, or anyone else, chooses to wear. I may well disagree with it (I'm not that crazy about my face, but I'm even less crazy about plastic surgery), but each person makes his or her own choices. That's America. What I have an issue with is Bartman trying to twist logic to support his point of view, even if he has to make things up to, leap to unsupportable conclusions, and resort ot name calling to do so. Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" '02 919 I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 8 13:55:50 2004 From: To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Open face vs. Full-face helmets Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 13:55:44 -0400 > > From: Bob Meyer > Date: 2004/06/08 Tue PM 01:39:46 EDT > To: purdyjeremy@XXXXXX > CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Re: Open face vs. Full-face helmets > > I have no issue with what you, or anyone else, chooses to wear. I may well disagree with it (I'm not that crazy about my face, but I'm even less crazy about plastic surgery), but each person makes his or her own choices. That's America. > > What I have an issue with is Bartman trying to twist logic to support his point of view, even if he has to make things up to, leap to unsupportable conclusions, and resort ot name calling to do so. > > Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 > '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" > '02 919 > > I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it. > I really don't care if someone wants to wear a shorty, 3/4, full or nothing at all. It's a personal choice, just like riding a motorcycle and the *type* of bike one rides. Does anyone really *need* a bike that can more than 150mph? Not really, but I'll the last one to stop anyone from buying one. Since many of the more vocal posters on this list are sport bike riders (or some hybrid of one), the slant is towards full face helmets. I wear whatever I feel like wearing that day. Odd though that the preachng that I've been reading about wearing full face helmets (and the subsequent dire consequences of wrecking without one), reeks of the same mantra I hear from non-riders about even riding a motorcycle *at all*. Pot-kettle-black IMHO. -aki From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 8 14:29:42 2004 Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 14:23:35 -0400 To: "Jon Strang" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Hey, Shafties, quick question.... At 10:12 AM 6/7/04 -0400, Jon Strang wrote: Strang: Who said I was talking about you in particular? I sure didn't. There have been lots of posts here about how to do this or that on a bike by people who obviously didn't have a manual for their bike but were wading in anyway. There have been more than a few posts about safety equipment. It was the contrast in these two kinds of posts I was talking about, not you in particular. I don't know you any more you than you know me, so I have no idea what experience you might or might not have either. I do know that you are a rude, easily offended, poor reader with a delicate ego now though. So does everyone else who read your response to my post. -- Mike B. >Piss off you silly fuck. You don't have the motorcycling nor the mechanical >experience to even consider questioning my ability to spin a wrench. Thirty >grand and thirty miles don't make you an expert, so shut the fuck up. There >aren't too many "subtle adjustment requirements" when removing a rear wheel. >The Clymers said 90 ft-lbs on the rear axle nut, 30 ft-lbs on the two disk >fasteners (with locktite). I've done it hundreds of times on over a dozen >bikes. This just happened to be my first encounter with a shaft. Thanks to >the list, I made sure I lubed the splines well. I'm smart enough to listen >to John and the Horkster. Others had good (although n/a in this case) >advice on center stand-ology. > >There's no "strange confusion" here. Every bike (dirt and street) I've owned >has had a bit of a sporting bent...all have been chain driven. I used a >usually-good-enough shop manual...a Clymer's for late 1970s-early 1980s >KZ750s...but the multiple year/model book didn't include the shaft driven >version. > >No offense to any of the professionals out there, the good ones are worth >their weight in H-D stock certificates. But "mechanic roulette" is rigged >in the house's favor. I trust me a hell of a lot more than the typical wage >slave at the typical bike shop. Disk brake calipers were hung with the >greatest of care (and zipties). All parts were lovingly inspected for >unusual and/or excessive wear. Every fastener was torqued to spec, with >locktite as appropriate. Lube-needing parts were. > >Note that I've never been stupid enough to take your fucking useless advice, >you mental midget with a serious case of diarrhea of the keyboard. If I >read even 1/2 of what you type, I'd still be sitting in front of my computer >befuddled instead of knowing I've completed a job well done. > >--jon > >----- "Mike Bartman" wrote: >> At 07:03 AM 6/7/04 -0400, Jon Strang wrote: >> >thanks for the help, missions complete! >> > >> >--jon >> >> It appears from interactions such as this one and the ones on helmet >choice >> that when it comes to safety there's a strange confusion on this list. >> >> When it comes to personal gear choices, there's a lot of "anything if it >> adds to safety", up to and including wearing full leathers and full face >> helmets on 95 degree days. On the other hand, some of those same people >> seem to be willing to take on maintenance of their bike's critical >systems, >> such as wheels, brakes, throttle, and clutch, without so much as a shop >> manual present to guide their efforts. >> >> On the other hand, there are some of us who are willing to ride on >occasion >> with less than race-ready protective equipment who wouldn't dream of >> working on such things without having first read the manufacturer's >> statements on how such work should be performed. There's just too much >> chance that some critical detail, such as torque specs, lube or lack of >it, >> or a subtle adjustment requirement, might be overlooked and result in >> failure of a critical system at high speed, resulting in a need for really >> good protective gear. >> >> Weird, huh? >> >> >> >> -- Mike B. >> >> '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley >folks) >> >> Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's >mistakes >> is better. > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 8 14:49:04 2004 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: 211? Who cares about 211? Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 14:48:55 -0400 If only this were closer: http://www.thepestilence.com/videos/Ride_Behind_Episode_10.wmv Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" '02 919 I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 8 14:51:58 2004 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Open face vs. Full-face helmets Content-ID: <30783.1086720717.1@XXXXXX> Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 14:51:57 -0400 From: harry@XXXXXX >Odd though that the preachng that I've been reading about wearing >full face ... Based on a study of the statistics presented here, I think we've hashed out the issues fully. For reference, please wear the appropriate helmet based on your character flaws, as diagnosed by the wearers of other types of helmets: idiot, irresponsible, teenage squid (with really hot chick passenger that would never go out with me): no helmet dumbass, illiterate, NRA member, cousin-parents, country-music-listening redneck: shorty overly defensive with tendencies toward ad hominem attacks: 3/4 hypocritical safety nazi pussy: full-face Now can we please leave this divisive issue behind us and unify our efforts against our common enemy, namely the distracted, makeup-applying, cell-phone talking, motorcyclist speed-bumping, mommy-van drivers? -harry From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 8 14:52:57 2004 Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 14:33:46 -0400 To: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Hey, Shafties, quick question.... At 10:47 AM 6/7/04 -0400, ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: >Scooter (Am I the only normal one in the group? :-)) Could be. You are almost always reasonable and friendly, which is certainly rare here. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 8 14:53:52 2004 Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 14:55:13 -0400 To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX, Mark Kitchell , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Re: Open face vs. Full-face helmets At 11:59 AM 6/7/04 -0400, Bob Meyer wrote: >> From: Mike Bartman >> >> At 07:34 PM 6/6/04 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote: >> >Ah, everyone except you was fully in favor of >> >full-face helmets, so there was consensus. >> >> Everyone who replied. Many probably just skipped it, to avoid the >> inevitable interaction with assholes like you. > >Got to love this logic: everyone who DIDN'T reply would have supported you, right? Sort of like Nixon's "silent majority." I thought you didn't want to read posts from me on this issue? If so, why are you responding? Your "logic" isn't. It also has nothing to do with me or mine. You can say what you like, but unless I say it too, don't assume I agree with you. I never said anything like what you seem to be attributing to me...you have leapt to an invalid conclusion. Oh, wait...you were asking a question there, sort of. Ok, the answer is: "No." We have no way of knowing what those who haven't spoken up think. My point, which anyone familiar with English should have been able to puzzle out, was that claiming support from them was invalid. Given that that was my point, how could you manage to conclude, or even suspect, that I would assume they'd agree with me? Some may have, some may have agreed with Kitchell, and the rest may have completely different ideas on the subject and disagree with both of us. Kitchell was the one assuming support from the silent majority, not me. Go bother him for his faulty logic. >> Keep at it, and eventually your reading ability will grow to the point >> where you can cope with even more than four whole paragraphs at a time! > >And maybe someday your writing ability will grow to the point where you can make your point with logic that holds together for more than 3 sentences, and without being obnoxious, foul mouthed, and a walking caricature of a "biker." My logic holds together just fine. Yours has some problems, as you don't seem to be aware of it when you assume things that aren't there. Your lack of imagination seems to lead to your overlooking alternative possibilities, and then you blame me for it when what little you come up with isn't sufficient to cover the situation and you assume that there are no others simply because they didn't occur to you (see above for an example...you assumed a binary situation, when it isn't one). Part of the length of what I write is an attempt to cover enough possibilities to avoid this, as people like you seem to be very prevalent on-line for some reason. As for being obnoxious, foul mouthed, etc., that's just a side-effect of the Golden Rule. If you care to check the archives, I think you'll find that I've been polite to everyone who's been polite to me, and rude to those who have treated me rudely. I've even been polite to people who were previously rude, when they stopped being rude (Kitchell for instance, though he went back to rude pretty quickly). If I assume that others are following the Golden Rule, then the way they treat me is the way they apparently want to be treated by me, and the obvious corollary of the Golden Rule says I should treat them that way. I generally don't respond in kind until I'm sure that's the way the person tends to be (as with Gimer and now Kitchell), which is why you are still getting a more or less polite reply to your rude post. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 8 14:58:55 2004 Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 14:36:36 -0400 To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX, Mark Kitchell , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Re: Open face vs. Full-face helmets At 11:55 AM 6/7/04 -0400, Bob Meyer wrote: >> From: Mike Bartman >> >> No need for list management to suggest taking this private. I won't be >> wasting time on Kitchell again. > >Thank God. The fewer posts we have to read from you on the "safety" issue the better. You don't have to read any of them. Ask someone with a clue how to filter posts in your mailer.... -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 8 15:00:12 2004 From: Kirk Roy To: Subject: Re: Open face vs. Full-face helmets Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 15:00:05 -0400 harry@XXXXXX wrote: > >Odd though that the preachng that I've been reading about wearing > >full face ... > > Based on a study of the statistics presented here, I think we've > hashed out the issues fully. > > For reference, please wear the appropriate helmet based on your > character flaws, as diagnosed by the wearers of other types of > helmets: > > idiot, irresponsible, teenage squid (with really hot chick > passenger that would never go out with me): no helmet > dumbass, illiterate, NRA member, cousin-parents, > country-music-listening redneck: shorty > overly defensive with tendencies toward ad hominem attacks: 3/4 > hypocritical safety nazi pussy: full-face > > Now can we please leave this divisive issue behind us and unify > our efforts against our common enemy, namely the distracted, > makeup-applying, cell-phone talking, motorcyclist speed-bumping, > mommy-van drivers? > -harry Hey! Who made you listowner?!? What? Oh, I see... Thanks for keeping this thing alive for so many years! I'll bet you didn't expect to run the list for so long when Jeff asked you to take it way back when... :) Kirk From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 8 15:01:10 2004 Subject: Rude? (Was: RE: Re: Open face vs. Full-face helmets) Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 15:00:58 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Mike Bartman" , , "Mark Kitchell" , Umm... Er, no. Bartman, you are rude to those who disagree with you, which is certainly not an even-handed application of the "Golden Rule." And you also fail to acknowledge that you take umbrage way too easily... Robert (Dang it, that was probably another trolling post, and I fell for it... D'oh!) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 8 15:14:58 2004 Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 15:14:07 -0400 To: Mark Kitchell , David Blumgart , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Common' guys A few factual corrections are in order here. At 09:46 AM 6/7/04 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote: >Mike B. is without a doubt the #1 controversial >lightingrod on this list. His ability to think he is >right on every subject and his inability to write >succinctly is ledgendary. My most recent suggestion to you was one sentence I believe. I don't think I'm right on every subject. I sometimes even state that explicitly. The rest of the time I assume readers will have the sense to realize that my statements, just like yours and everyone else's here, are just my view of things. Why you can't cope with that is something I just don't understand...and no longer care about. >Luckily his is pretty much >a legend in his own mind and never shows his face >outside of email world. Not true. I went on a ride with a few listers early last spring. Didn't see you there though. Carl in Bethesda was there, as was Evil Overlord Carl (who just came to say hello, and didn't ride), and Robert, who organized the event (Gee, I hope I got the names right...I'm not good at names...). There were a couple of others, but they seemed shy and didn't join in much so I don't know who they were. I was also at Rolling Thunder and the Cruz'n For Cancer Ride just in the last month...lots of folks there, though I don't know how many of them are on this list. I plan to be on the Wheaton Rescue Ride in September, and probably some other rides that aren't limited to HOG members too between now and then. Those are the facts. I'll avoid comment on your opinions. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 8 15:27:52 2004 Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 15:30:25 -0400 To: "garcia oliver" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Saturdays moto mystery. At 06:16 PM 6/7/04 -0400, garcia oliver wrote: >What I still don)B’t understand is why the horn or brake switch allowed the >engine to run. And why both combined killed the engine and all electric >power. > >Anyone have ideas? Yeah, but nothing solid. I'd guess some sort of short somewhere, but where I have no idea. Have to know the wiring diagram of your bike to even know where to look first. Electricity can act very strangely at times, particularly if there are any digital electronics involved (low voltage can cause digital circuits to change state almost randomly, and a short will usually cause low voltage elsewhere in the system...path of least resistance). I once traced a weird light malfunction in a '67 VW bug to a short in the right rear tail light. Strange part was that the rear lights were the only ones behaving normally! Front turn signals were the main symptom, and their behavior changed with headlight state (off, on or high beam), but the rear lights were completely normal. Once I taped the worn insulation on the wire in the right rear lamp, all was well though. Good luck sorting it out! -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 8 15:31:05 2004 Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 12:30:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Common' guys To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > A few factual corrections are in order here. > > Not true. I went on a ride with a few listers early last spring. > Didn't > see you there though. Carl in Bethesda was there, as was Evil Overlord > Carl (who just came to say hello, and didn't ride), Hey! I rode. To the event to meet folks :-) We were in the middle of packing. I was lucky to get away for that without taking grief from my loving spouse :-) > > -- Mike B. > Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 8 15:32:47 2004 Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 12:32:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: 211? Who cares about 211? To: DC Cycles Great video! Thanks. Love the dance remix of Boys of Summer with it. --- Bob Meyer wrote: > If only this were closer: > > http://www.thepestilence.com/videos/Ride_Behind_Episode_10.wmv > > Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 > '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" > '02 919 > > I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute > of it. > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 8 15:38:33 2004 Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 15:41:10 -0400 To: purdyjeremy@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Open face vs. Full-face helmets At 02:20 PM 6/8/04 +0000, purdyjeremy@XXXXXX wrote: >No, not everyone. However, it is my belief that the majority of people who respond to questions about helmet use are either activists (either the safetycrats of this list or the no-helmet ever people) or people who just love to hear themselves talk. Well, since you aren't a safetycrat (no full-face), or a no-helmet ever activist (you always wear 3/4), are you in the minority who respond to questions about helmet use, like me, or do you just love to hear yourself talk? Just a little friendly dig there...you set up the "rules"... ;-) -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 8 15:43:22 2004 Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 12:43:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Ray Subject: Bartman To: DC Cycles Mike - I've done my best to stay on the sideline for this one, but I can't do it any longer. I don't dislike you for your content. You have your ideas, I have mine. I like full helmets, you like a variety. Fine. Sometimes you have a bit of good information. But geez, do you have to respond to *Every* godamn post? That may be an exageration - I think you only hit 2/3 of them. Let some pass by, for christ's sake. Take the one I quoted below - no real content! If you're going to say good luck, use one sentence only! And if you're responding to an on-going conversation, read them all, and respond with _one_ post for all, not one for each. Please? I like the discussion of the list, but since you've been on the list, the signal to noise ratio has gone *WAY* up. For those who've pulled the list stats, how much is Bartman responsible for? Sheeez. Brian Ray some bike with stuff another bike --- Mike Bartman wrote: >> Yeah, but nothing solid. I'd guess some sort of > short somewhere, but where > I have no idea. Have to know the wiring diagram of > your bike to even know > where to look first. Electricity can act very > strangely at times, > particularly if there are any digital electronics > involved (low voltage can > cause digital circuits to change state almost > randomly, and a short will > usually cause low voltage elsewhere in the > system...path of least resistance). > > I once traced a weird light malfunction in a '67 VW > bug to a short in the > right rear tail light. Strange part was that the > rear lights were the only > ones behaving normally! Front turn signals were the > main symptom, and > their behavior changed with headlight state (off, on > or high beam), but the > rear lights were completely normal. Once I taped > the worn insulation on > the wire in the right rear lamp, all was well > though. > > Good luck sorting it out! > -- Mike B. > > '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI > for the non-Harley folks) > > Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from > someone else's mistakes > is better. > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 8 15:50:19 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 15:49:59 EDT Subject: Re: [VRTP-North] Engine Braking To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/8/2004 9:57:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time, scottkenwill@XXXXXX writes: > I remember my father doing a lot of engine braking in his 1962 > Studebaker Hawk, This is scattered all over the place, but...... Old car. Drum brakes. Heat fade. Total brake failure. People knew how to drive. New(er) cars/bikes disk brakes. lots less fade. Not _as_ likely to fail due to overheating. But I lived in the mountains of NC for years and I have seen cage brakes fail completely as the result of using them to maintain speed on long downhills. With the throttle full off you are using _very_ little fuel, and it is the proper technique. Why do you think automatic transmissions have a shifter that you can put into a lower gear? The smell of burning brake linings meant the tourists were back in NC. I hate that smell. OK NOTE: If you are riding a pre-mix two cycle you should not use compression braking because you will oil starve your engine. Of course two cycles have very little compression braking anyhow. And none of you are riding one. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 8 16:15:53 2004 Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 16:15:42 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Hey, Shafties, quick question.... X-AOL-IP: 65.86.98.162 X-AOL-Language: english Why thank you. I try. :-) Scooter (I'm not really normal, I just play one on tv. hehe) In a message dated 6/8/2004 2:33:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, omni@XXXXXX writes: > > > At 10:47 AM 6/7/04 -0400, ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: > > >Scooter (Am I the only normal one in the group? :-)) > > Could be. You are almost always reasonable and friendly, which is > certainly rare here. > > -- Mike B. > > '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) > > Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone > else's mistakes > is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 8 16:54:53 2004 Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 16:54:35 -0400 To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX, purdyjeremy@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Re: Open face vs. Full-face helmets Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 01:39 PM 6/8/04 -0400, Bob Meyer wrote: > >What I have an issue with is Bartman trying to twist logic to support his point of view, even if he has to make things up to, leap to unsupportable conclusions, and resort ot name calling to do so. What are you talking about? What is my "point of view"? What have I made up? What "unsupportable conclusions" have I leapt to? Just to keep things simple, how about your answers relate to the most recent discussion, about helmets? Just a suggestion, since that's the thread you are making these accusations in. From what I read, it would appear that my view and Roach's are about the same on this subject, and not at all far from at least a couple of other posters to this thread as well. Are they "twisting logic", "making things up" and "leaping to unsupportable conclusions" too? -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 8 17:25:01 2004 Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 17:01:48 -0400 To: harry@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Open face vs. Full-face helmets At 02:51 PM 6/8/04 -0400, harry@XXXXXX wrote: >Now can we please leave this divisive issue behind us and unify >our efforts against our common enemy, namely the distracted, >makeup-applying, cell-phone talking, motorcyclist speed-bumping, >mommy-van drivers? Why limit it to that? I've seen BDC tricks from those with cell phones in expensive luxury cars even more often than with soccer moms... Ok, now we choose up sides again I guess, with the soccer mom haters vs. the luxury sedan haters and start again on this new topic? This list is just made up of people who don't like some of the other people, and aren't likely to until at least one group grows up. (Everyone can now decide in their own mind that I'm talking about the *other* group here...) -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 8 17:25:04 2004 Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 17:11:26 -0400 To: "Verde, Robert" , , "Mark Kitchell" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Rude? (Was: RE: Re: Open face vs. Full-face helmets) At 03:00 PM 6/8/04 -0400, Verde, Robert wrote: >Umm... Er, no. > >Bartman, you are rude to those who disagree with you, which is certainly not an even-handed application of the "Golden Rule." Examples, Verde? I've disagreed with several people here on occasion, but when they stayed civil, so did I. When the disagreement was over factual items, and I was wrong, I've thanked them for the correction. When it was over subjective opinions (the most common situation by far) I've tried to explain why I have the ones I have, and I've tried to figure out why others hold the ones they have. I hear it's all in the archives, so this can be verified if anyone cares enough to check on it. >And you also fail to acknowledge that you take umbrage way too easily... How so? How easily should I take it when I'm called a liar, a moron, or other rude things by some of the people here? -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 8 18:05:15 2004 Subject: Motorcycle Towing Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 18:05:00 -0400 From: "Morrison, Brian" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX X-WSS-ID: 6CD8E7862095694-01-01 I've been trying to explore options for motorcycle towing plans, and thought some of you might appreciate the info. Here's what I've found, which isn't much. I'd be interested to hear if anyone has any experience with the issue. Surely some of the Harley riders must have considered it. (Anyone care to guess who it will be to respond to that comment?) The AMA plan is cheap as hell - it's $25 a year for all your bikes - but it only gives you 35 miles of towing. http://www.ama-cycle.org/roadride/assist.asp#motow AAA has a service - AAA Plus RV, which is MUCH more expensive, at $120 per year. That includes 100 miles of towing, plus gas service, plus all the other regular benefits. (They will not mount a tire to the rim for you, obviously). 4 service calls per membership year. Covers your car (and, for that matter, your winnebego). It wasn't easy to figure out from the web site (https://www.aaamidatlantic.com), so I called membership services, who informs me that AAA Plus RV is the only way to go. Membership in the Motorcycle Rider's Association also appears to come with a towing plan - 35 miles of towing, $40 for membership. http://www.motorcycleriders.tv/ There's also something called "The Auto Club," which has a $200 towing benefit. Plans are 6 or 7 bucks a month. http://www.theautoclub.com/motorcycle/index.jsp I don't think that USAA has an auto (or motorcycle) club. I recall from my insurance search that some insurer has a service you can join whether or not you are insured with them, but I don't know which it was. Hope this is helpful to someone. Brian 2000 Triumph Legend ------------------------------------------------------------ NOTICE: This message is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by reply or by telephone (call us collect at (202) 434-5000) and immediately delete this message and all its attachments. ============================================================ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 8 19:25:15 2004 Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 16:25:12 -0700 (PDT) From: dcpatti Subject: Shop manual wanted To: DC Cycles Folks, I'm looking for a shop manual for a 1997 Moto Guzzi California. The more detailed, the better. No luck online so far and the one that came with the bike is worthless except for the occasional laugh over really bad translations... anyone have one (or know someone who does) they'd be willing to share/sell/copy? Thanks! Patti __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 8 19:50:06 2004 Reply-To: From: "stephen" To: , Subject: RE: Stolen Motorscooter (more info) Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 19:44:23 -0400 1962 Honda C100 SuperCub - Black with white right side-cover Beautiful condition. All original. Freshly powder-coated (except for the center-stand). Tag is Green lettering on white background. Mileage: 3987 or so Gas cap cork is hand cut and hard to get off/on. Refuses to run! Bike is currently missing the following: All the decals Mirrors Leg-shield The plastic bung on the chain-case (covered with gaffers tape) ME! Tears, Stephen > -----Original Message----- > From: stephen [mailto:stephen@XXXXXX] > Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 5:48 PM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Stolen Motorscooter > > > Honda 1962 C-100 Supercub. > VIN: C100D014098 > Location: 8510 16th Street (@ E/W Highway in SS) > License: 009725 Washington State > Last Seen: 6/4/2004 in the parking lot. > > Stephen > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 8 20:41:53 2004 Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 20:41:33 -0400 From: "Gwen Dade" Subject: Some opinions please... To: "DC Cycles" X-AOL-IP: 68.98.185.162 I apologize in advance for any fighting that might be caused by the help I'm requesting.

I'm looking at buying my first bike, have decided that a 250 would get boring right away, so have narrowed it down to three choices (Honda Shadow is not even an option--the center of gravity on that bike makes it impossible for me to move it).
  1. Suzuki Savage 650
  2. Yamaha VStar Custom
  3. Kawasaki Vulcan 500 LTD

In regards to self-maintenance, which one would be the easier of the three?  Also, any recommendations on which is safer, etc.  I'm 5'6" and weigh 122lbs, so WHEN I slide it (as I'm sure I will), I also wanna be able to pick it up.   I've been looking at some reviews, but managed to buy a wise-ass book, which doesn't lean towards one anymore than the other and doesn't talk about maintaining the bikes at all.

I must say this is a highly entertaining list and I look forward to some legit viewpoints on this topic.

Thanks

Gwen
 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 8 21:12:48 2004 Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 21:13:54 -0400 To: dcpatti , DC Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Shop manual wanted At 04:25 PM 6/8/04 -0700, dcpatti wrote: >Folks, > >I'm looking for a shop manual for a 1997 Moto Guzzi >California. The more detailed, the better. No luck >online so far and the one that came with the bike is >worthless except for the occasional laugh over really >bad translations... anyone have one (or know someone >who does) they'd be willing to share/sell/copy? Don't know the details about that model (like engine size) or even nomenclature used by Moto Guzzi, so I'm not sure if one of these links will get you what you need, but just in case: Not a shop manual, but maybe helpful? http://www.repairmanual.com/motorcycles/1997/46/7 This one looks like it has at least some of what you want, but it doesn't say anything about what language it's in: http://www.epfguzzi.com/inprint/manual.html This one isn't an official shop manual, but if it covers the year and model you need, maybe it would help? http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0856963399/ref=ase_inetrendezv ousA/002-6574953-4327211?v=glance&s=books The Moto Guzzi Owners Club On-Line (http://inet-rendezvous.com/MGNOC/books.htm) seems to recommend this one as a substitute for the shop manual: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN%3D0967065402/inetrendezvousA/002-6574 953-4327211 This one has some plates from the manuals, but not complete books (but at least what they have is free and on-line): http://www.dropbears.com/m/models/guzzi/v7-850/v7-850.htm This one says it has manuals for the model you are looking for (I think...), but only in Italian: http://www.motomanuali.com/MANUALI&CATALOGHI/officina/MOTO%20GUZZI.htm These guys list Moto Guzzi manuals as a product they carry, but don't go into much detail about what models are covered. Might have to call them to find out: http://www.bjracing.com/shop.htm Lots of Moto Guzzi links from this one, maybe one will lead to what you want, or to someone who knows where to find it: http://www.micapeak.com/mc/addrs/amotoguzzi.html Hope some of that is useful...and that you hadn't already found all of it... -- Mike B. "The national budget must be balanced. The public debt must be reduced; the arrogance of the authorities must be moderated and controlled. Payments to foreign governments must be reduced, if the nation doesn't want to go bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance." -- Marcus Tullius Cicero, 55 B.C. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 8 22:02:29 2004 Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 19:02:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Some opinions please... To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Gwen Dade wrote: > >--------------------------------- > I apologize in advance forany fighting that might be caused by the help >I'm requesting. Considering the location, cabin fever could explain it (traffic seems to keep people from just cruising around). >I'm looking at buying my first bike, have decided that a 250 would >getboring right away, so have narrowed it down to three choices >(HondaShadow is not even an option--the center of gravity on that bike >makesit impossible for me to move it). > > > Suzuki Savage 650 > Yamaha VStar Custom > Kawasaki Vulcan 500LTD First questions of course. Have you taken the MSF course? Have you ever driven a motorcycle before? If not, you might want to consider an older 250 to get your bike legs on. Keep it for a season and then sell it. It'll be lighter (easier to pick up :-) and you won't be tempted to drive it too fast (assuming a standard sort of 250 of course). If you're beyond that, my wife's first non-practice bike is her Honda Shadow VLX 600. She's 5'2" and can put both feet flat on the ground which was her primary criteria with the ability to pick it up being secondary. > >In regards to self-maintenance, which one would be the easier of the >three? That depends on your level of wrenchability. Changing most fluids and lubing chains are pretty simple. Most sparkplugs are easy to get at and there are very few things in general that can go wrong. The harder items would be things like bearings. As far as how reliable a bike is, well that's going to depend on the person you get the bike from and whomever you get to look it over before buying it. >Also, any recommendations on which is safer, etc. Well, taking the MSF course helps make it safer as does eyes in the back of your head and good helping of paranoia. Other than that, I can't help you on which bike. >I'm 5'6" and >weigh 122lbs, so WHEN I slide it (as I'm sure I will), I also wanna be >able to pick it up. That's just technique. Check this out: http://www.ibmwr.org/otech/pickup.html >I've been looking at some reviews, but managed to >buy a wise-ass book, which doesn't lean towards one anymore than the >other and doesn't talk about maintaining the bikes at all. > >I must say this is a highly entertaining list and I look forward to >some legit viewpoints on this topic. > >Thanks > >Gwen Hope this helps. Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 8 22:14:54 2004 Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 19:14:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Some opinions please... To: Gwen Dade , DC Cycles gwen, it depends on your definition of self-maintenance. the savage, being a single, would likely be the easiest to maintain if you're doing _everything_ (which would include valve inspections/adjustments). it would probably also be the lightest for the same reason, and thus easier to throw around (or pick up). however, a 650 single can get boring just as quickly as a 250 twin or four.... so you may want to give more attention to your priorities here. welcome to the list. get your delete key ready, and be sure to set up your windbag filter. --- Gwen Dade wrote: --------------------------------- I apologize in advance forany fighting that might be caused by the help I'm requesting. I'm looking at buying my first bike, have decided that a 250 would getboring right away, so have narrowed it down to three choices (HondaShadow is not even an option--the center of gravity on that bike makesit impossible for me to move it). Suzuki Savage 650 Yamaha VStar Custom Kawasaki Vulcan 500LTD In regards to self-maintenance, which one would be the easier of thethree? Also, any recommendations on which is safer, etc. I'm 5'6" andweigh 122lbs, so WHEN I slide it (as I'm sure I will), I also wanna beable to pick it up. I've been looking at some reviews, but managed tobuy a wise-ass book, which doesn't lean towards one anymore than theother and doesn't talk about maintaining the bikes at all. I must say this is a highly entertaining list and I look forward tosome legit viewpoints on this topic. Thanks Gwen __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 8 22:27:28 2004 Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 19:27:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Adam Reinhardt Subject: Shipping a frame To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I'm looking at shipping a frame w/subframe from SoCal to NJ. Has anyone done this and used Greyhound? I'm thinking I'll just cover the frame in duct-tape and bubble wrap and take it to the bus station. The quote is $50 which is about twice as cheap as FedEx or UPS. Any advice from those who have been down this road before? Thanks Adam __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 8 22:32:14 2004 Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 22:32:07 -0400 To: dc-cycles From: Aki Damme Subject: Re: Shipping a frame Nope but check with your local airline. Many of them will ship stuff like that for a lot cheaper than you may think and it's faster. When I worked for Citibank, we had to get a server from California to Weehawken NJ ASAP. We had them put it on a United flight and it only cost us something like $200 and that sucker was big *and* heavy. A bike frame should be significantly less. Check it out, won't lost anything but the time to make a phone call. -aki At 10:27 PM 6/8/2004, you wrote: >I'm looking at shipping a frame w/subframe from SoCal >to NJ. Has anyone done this and used Greyhound? I'm >thinking I'll just cover the frame in duct-tape and >bubble wrap and take it to the bus station. The quote >is $50 which is about twice as cheap as FedEx or UPS. > >Any advice from those who have been down this road >before? > >Thanks > >Adam > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. >http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 8 22:32:57 2004 From: "Thomas Jordan" To: Subject: RE: Shipping a frame Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 22:32:52 -0400 Last frame I bought (Katana) was shipped to me with cardboard wrapped around it and packing tape. UPS shipped it for about $25.00 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 8 22:38:05 2004 Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 19:37:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Motorcycle Towing To: "Morrison, Brian" , DC Cycles Not sure what brand you ride but the Honda Sport Touring Association has a good plan. www.hsta.org Not that I have ever needed a tow with a Honda (-: --- "Morrison, Brian" wrote: > I've been trying to explore options for motorcycle > towing plans, and > thought some of you might appreciate the info. > Here's what I've found, > which isn't much. I'd be interested to hear if > anyone has any > experience with the issue. Surely some of the > Harley riders must have > considered it. (Anyone care to guess who it will be > to respond to that > comment?) > > The AMA plan is cheap as hell - it's $25 a year for > all your bikes - but > it only gives you 35 miles of towing. > http://www.ama-cycle.org/roadride/assist.asp#motow > > AAA has a service - AAA Plus RV, which is MUCH more > expensive, at $120 > per year. That includes 100 miles of towing, plus > gas service, plus all > the other regular benefits. (They will not mount a > tire to the rim for > you, obviously). 4 service calls per membership > year. Covers your car > (and, for that matter, your winnebego). It wasn't > easy to figure out > from the web site (https://www.aaamidatlantic.com), > so I called > membership services, who informs me that AAA Plus RV > is the only way to > go. > > Membership in the Motorcycle Rider's Association > also appears to come > with a towing plan - 35 miles of towing, $40 for > membership. > http://www.motorcycleriders.tv/ > > There's also something called "The Auto Club," which > has a $200 towing > benefit. Plans are 6 or 7 bucks a month. > http://www.theautoclub.com/motorcycle/index.jsp > > I don't think that USAA has an auto (or motorcycle) > club. > > I recall from my insurance search that some insurer > has a service you > can join whether or not you are insured with them, > but I don't know > which it was. > > Hope this is helpful to someone. > > Brian > 2000 Triumph Legend > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > NOTICE: > > This message is intended for the use of the > individual or entity to which it is addressed and > may contain information that is privileged, > confidential and exempt from disclosure under > applicable law. If the reader of this message is not > the intended recipient or the employee or agent > responsible for delivering this message to the > intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any > dissemination, distribution or copying of this > communication is strictly prohibited. If you have > received this communication in error, please notify > us immediately by reply or by telephone (call us > collect at (202) 434-5000) and immediately delete > this message and all its attachments. > > ============================================================ > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 8 22:47:44 2004 Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 19:47:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Hugh Caldwell Subject: Re: Motorcycle Towing To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Luck you, I once spent 8 hours at a not so charming WV gas station waiting for a tow from the Honda Riders Club. Luckily though I wasn't waiting for the Hawaii State Teachers Association to come to pick me us as I would probably still be waiting. The HRCA will only tow your bike to the nearest shop. I currently have the AMA package but haven't needed to use it yet. Hugh --- Mark Kitchell wrote: > Not sure what brand you ride but the Honda Sport > Touring Association has a good plan. www.hsta.org > > Not that I have ever needed a tow with a Honda (-: > > ===== Hugh Caldwell http://www.twowheelsgood.net __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 9 00:07:59 2004 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Mark Kitchell , "Morrison, Brian" , DC Cycles Subject: Re: Motorcycle Towing Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 00:10:13 -0400 No R/R failures? I haven't had it die yet knock on wood :) Rob On Tue, 8 Jun 2004 19:37:57 -0700 (PDT), Mark Kitchell wrote > Not sure what brand you ride but the Honda Sport > Touring Association has a good plan. www.hsta.org > > Not that I have ever needed a tow with a Honda (-: > > --- "Morrison, Brian" wrote: > > I've been trying to explore options for motorcycle > > towing plans, and > > thought some of you might appreciate the info. > > Here's what I've found, > > which isn't much. I'd be interested to hear if > > anyone has any > > experience with the issue. Surely some of the > > Harley riders must have > > considered it. (Anyone care to guess who it will be > > to respond to that > > comment?) > > > > The AMA plan is cheap as hell - it's $25 a year for > > all your bikes - but > > it only gives you 35 miles of towing. > > http://www.ama-cycle.org/roadride/assist.asp#motow > > > > AAA has a service - AAA Plus RV, which is MUCH more > > expensive, at $120 > > per year. That includes 100 miles of towing, plus > > gas service, plus all > > the other regular benefits. (They will not mount a > > tire to the rim for > > you, obviously). 4 service calls per membership > > year. Covers your car > > (and, for that matter, your winnebego). It wasn't > > easy to figure out > > from the web site (https://www.aaamidatlantic.com), > > so I called > > membership services, who informs me that AAA Plus RV > > is the only way to > > go. > > > > Membership in the Motorcycle Rider's Association > > also appears to come > > with a towing plan - 35 miles of towing, $40 for > > membership. > > http://www.motorcycleriders.tv/ > > > > There's also something called "The Auto Club," which > > has a $200 towing > > benefit. Plans are 6 or 7 bucks a month. > > http://www.theautoclub.com/motorcycle/index.jsp > > > > I don't think that USAA has an auto (or motorcycle) > > club. > > > > I recall from my insurance search that some insurer > > has a service you > > can join whether or not you are insured with them, > > but I don't know > > which it was. > > > > Hope this is helpful to someone. > > > > Brian > > 2000 Triumph Legend > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > NOTICE: > > > > This message is intended for the use of the > > individual or entity to which it is addressed and > > may contain information that is privileged, > > confidential and exempt from disclosure under > > applicable law. If the reader of this message is not > > the intended recipient or the employee or agent > > responsible for delivering this message to the > > intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any > > dissemination, distribution or copying of this > > communication is strictly prohibited. If you have > > received this communication in error, please notify > > us immediately by reply or by telephone (call us > > collect at (202) 434-5000) and immediately delete > > this message and all its attachments. > > > > > ============================================================ > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. > http://messenger.yahoo.com/ -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 9 05:01:45 2004 Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 05:01:28 -0400 From: "Gwen Dade" Subject: Re: Some opinions please... To: "DC Cycles" X-AOL-IP: 68.98.185.162 Carl, Thanks for the input. I've turned wrenches on cars (both street and race) before, so I think I should be able to handle a bike, unless it's WAY different. I don't know what it is about that Honda Shadow VLX600, but I don't have the leg strength or something to stand it up. It weighs less than the Yamaha and Kawasaki and I had no problems with them when I test drove them. The course is complete. Had my first slide in the first 10 minutes of the class (hoping that I've gotten it out of my system for good, but knowing realistically, probably not). Gwen Carl Schelin wrote on 6/8/2004, 10:02 PM: > > --- Gwen Dade wrote: > > > >--------------------------------- > > I apologize in advance forany fighting that might be caused by the > help > >I'm requesting. > > Considering the location, cabin fever could explain it (traffic seems to > keep people from just cruising around). > > >I'm looking at buying my first bike, have decided that a 250 would > >getboring right away, so have narrowed it down to three choices > >(HondaShadow is not even an option--the center of gravity on that bike > >makesit impossible for me to move it). > > > > > > Suzuki Savage 650 > > Yamaha VStar Custom > > Kawasaki Vulcan 500LTD > > First questions of course. Have you taken the MSF course? Have you ever > driven a motorcycle before? If not, you might want to consider an older > 250 to get your bike legs on. Keep it for a season and then sell it. > It'll > be lighter (easier to pick up :-) and you won't be tempted to drive it > too > fast (assuming a standard sort of 250 of course). > > If you're beyond that, my wife's first non-practice bike is her Honda > Shadow VLX 600. She's 5'2" and can put both feet flat on the ground which > was her primary criteria with the ability to pick it up being secondary. > > > > >In regards to self-maintenance, which one would be the easier of the > >three? > > That depends on your level of wrenchability. Changing most fluids and > lubing chains are pretty simple. Most sparkplugs are easy to get at and > there are very few things in general that can go wrong. The harder items > would be things like bearings. As far as how reliable a bike is, well > that's going to depend on the person you get the bike from and whomever > you get to look it over before buying it. > > >Also, any recommendations on which is safer, etc. > > Well, taking the MSF course helps make it safer as does eyes in the back > of your head and good helping of paranoia. Other than that, I can't help > you on which bike. > > >I'm 5'6" and > >weigh 122lbs, so WHEN I slide it (as I'm sure I will), I also wanna be > >able to pick it up. > > That's just technique. Check this out: > http://www.ibmwr.org/otech/pickup.html > > >I've been looking at some reviews, but managed to > >buy a wise-ass book, which doesn't lean towards one anymore than the > >other and doesn't talk about maintaining the bikes at all. > > > >I must say this is a highly entertaining list and I look forward to > >some legit viewpoints on this topic. > > > >Thanks > > > >Gwen > > Hope this helps. > > Carl > > ===== > 02 Harley FXSTI > 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W > 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. > http://messenger.yahoo.com/ > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 9 08:10:52 2004 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: Mark Kitchell , "Morrison, Brian" , DC Cycles Subject: Re: Re: Motorcycle Towing Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 8:10:40 -0400 Honda Riders Club of America (HRCA) also has a good plan (maybe the same as HSTA), but I think it only covers Hondas. Bob Meyer > > From: Mark Kitchell > Date: 2004/06/08 Tue PM 10:37:57 EDT > To: "Morrison, Brian" , DC Cycles > Subject: Re: Motorcycle Towing > > Not sure what brand you ride but the Honda Sport > Touring Association has a good plan. www.hsta.org > > Not that I have ever needed a tow with a Honda (-: > > > --- "Morrison, Brian" wrote: > > I've been trying to explore options for motorcycle > > towing plans, and > > thought some of you might appreciate the info. > > Here's what I've found, > > which isn't much. I'd be interested to hear if > > anyone has any > > experience with the issue. Surely some of the > > Harley riders must have > > considered it. (Anyone care to guess who it will be > > to respond to that > > comment?) > > > > The AMA plan is cheap as hell - it's $25 a year for > > all your bikes - but > > it only gives you 35 miles of towing. > > http://www.ama-cycle.org/roadride/assist.asp#motow > > > > AAA has a service - AAA Plus RV, which is MUCH more > > expensive, at $120 > > per year. That includes 100 miles of towing, plus > > gas service, plus all > > the other regular benefits. (They will not mount a > > tire to the rim for > > you, obviously). 4 service calls per membership > > year. Covers your car > > (and, for that matter, your winnebego). It wasn't > > easy to figure out > > from the web site (https://www.aaamidatlantic.com), > > so I called > > membership services, who informs me that AAA Plus RV > > is the only way to > > go. > > > > Membership in the Motorcycle Rider's Association > > also appears to come > > with a towing plan - 35 miles of towing, $40 for > > membership. > > http://www.motorcycleriders.tv/ > > > > There's also something called "The Auto Club," which > > has a $200 towing > > benefit. Plans are 6 or 7 bucks a month. > > http://www.theautoclub.com/motorcycle/index.jsp > > > > I don't think that USAA has an auto (or motorcycle) > > club. > > > > I recall from my insurance search that some insurer > > has a service you > > can join whether or not you are insured with them, > > but I don't know > > which it was. > > > > Hope this is helpful to someone. > > > > Brian > > 2000 Triumph Legend > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > NOTICE: > > > > This message is intended for the use of the > > individual or entity to which it is addressed and > > may contain information that is privileged, > > confidential and exempt from disclosure under > > applicable law. If the reader of this message is not > > the intended recipient or the employee or agent > > responsible for delivering this message to the > > intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any > > dissemination, distribution or copying of this > > communication is strictly prohibited. If you have > > received this communication in error, please notify > > us immediately by reply or by telephone (call us > > collect at (202) 434-5000) and immediately delete > > this message and all its attachments. > > > > > ============================================================ > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. > http://messenger.yahoo.com/ > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 9 08:34:17 2004 Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 08:36:53 -0400 To: Mark Kitchell , "Morrison, Brian" , DC Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Motorcycle Towing At 07:37 PM 6/8/04 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote: >Not sure what brand you ride but the Honda Sport >Touring Association has a good plan. www.hsta.org www.hsta.org is the Hawaii State Teachers Association site...do you check these things out before you post them? I think this link will work better for those looking for the Honda Sport Touring Association: http://www.ridehsta.com/ For those with H-D bikes there is a really good towing/roadside assistance (gas, jump start, etc.) plan available. You get basic coverage (first $100 of costs (not including parts or gas), up to 4 times a year) free with a HOG membership, and for $19.95 a year you can upgrade that to the Deluxe Plan, which covers all towing expenses to get you to the nearest shop as well as roadside assistance as many times as necessary. There's an even better plan (Ultra) for $29.95/year that includes expense reimbursement for associated costs (like a hotel room) if you are more than 100 miles from home and the repair takes more than a day due to part unavailability. There's a similar plan for Buel owners. Info about this here: http://www.harley-davidson.com/ex/hog/template.asp?locale=en_US&bmLocale=en_ US&fnc=canuse3&loc=mbene/canuse No, I haven't had to use the plan yet. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 9 08:53:23 2004 Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 08:53:28 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Erick Singley Subject: Reserve tank Due to various other maintenance issues with my 74' CB750, I filled up the tank on general principal every time I rode out to work. Of late I've been riding until I need to kick in the reserve. (about 3 gallons - 150 miles or so. Not bad for that Old Beast, I'd say.) Now, I know I need to turn the stopcock when the engine doesn't give me power and the sound changes. This morning I did so at speed after waiting maybe a little too long (engine really sounded labored). After I did so, it got slightly better, but I still had no real acceleration. I started second guessing myself -- did I really have it on the right setting now? Which way does that little arrow point on the knob? So I turned it back, it really died and I pulled over - yup plenty of reserve gas, yup I was right the first time. So I flipped it back to reserve and watched the gas go through the (fairly new) filter and finally fill up the 4 carbs. Now, I assume that the problem was that the carbs were low on gas, and with a gravity feed while at speed, it was just taking a while for them to fill back up and have the engine run smoothly. My question is - Next time I should obviously learn and flip the lever over sooner so I still have proper power when I need it (say, I need to give it gas in an emergency) - but how long might a gravity feed system take, when running at say 4000 rpms to get those carbs happy again? I'm just wondering how long to ride in that situation before wondering if something *else* might be up with something slightly younger than me. When I had the tank apart - I noticed there was a mesh screen bag over the regular/reserve inlet ports - could that be gummy - thus slowing down the feed rate and needing replacement? Erick From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 9 10:28:10 2004 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: Adam Reinhardt , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Shipping a frame Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 10:28:02 -0400 I shipped some boxes of computer tapes via the Gray Dog once. Let's just say I'm glad the tapes were in strong, well padded boxes. Judging by how beat up the outsides were, it looked like Grayhound did everything but drop them off a moving bus. Bob > > From: Adam Reinhardt > Date: 2004/06/08 Tue PM 10:27:21 EDT > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Shipping a frame > > I'm looking at shipping a frame w/subframe from SoCal > to NJ. Has anyone done this and used Greyhound? I'm > thinking I'll just cover the frame in duct-tape and > bubble wrap and take it to the bus station. The quote > is $50 which is about twice as cheap as FedEx or UPS. > > Any advice from those who have been down this road > before? > > Thanks > > Adam > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. > http://messenger.yahoo.com/ > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 9 10:41:38 2004 Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 07:32:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Motorcycle Towing To: Rob Sharp , "Morrison, Brian" , DC Cycles Actually that did die... --- Rob Sharp wrote: > No R/R failures? > > I haven't had it die yet knock on wood :) > > Rob > > On Tue, 8 Jun 2004 19:37:57 -0700 (PDT), Mark > Kitchell wrote > > Not sure what brand you ride but the Honda Sport > > Touring Association has a good plan. www.hsta.org > > > > Not that I have ever needed a tow with a Honda (-: > > > > --- "Morrison, Brian" wrote: > > > I've been trying to explore options for > motorcycle > > > towing plans, and > > > thought some of you might appreciate the info. > > > Here's what I've found, > > > which isn't much. I'd be interested to hear if > > > anyone has any > > > experience with the issue. Surely some of the > > > Harley riders must have > > > considered it. (Anyone care to guess who it > will be > > > to respond to that > > > comment?) > > > > > > The AMA plan is cheap as hell - it's $25 a year > for > > > all your bikes - but > > > it only gives you 35 miles of towing. > > > > http://www.ama-cycle.org/roadride/assist.asp#motow > > > > > > AAA has a service - AAA Plus RV, which is MUCH > more > > > expensive, at $120 > > > per year. That includes 100 miles of towing, > plus > > > gas service, plus all > > > the other regular benefits. (They will not > mount a > > > tire to the rim for > > > you, obviously). 4 service calls per membership > > > year. Covers your car > > > (and, for that matter, your winnebego). It > wasn't > > > easy to figure out > > > from the web site > (https://www.aaamidatlantic.com), > > > so I called > > > membership services, who informs me that AAA > Plus RV > > > is the only way to > > > go. > > > > > > Membership in the Motorcycle Rider's Association > > > also appears to come > > > with a towing plan - 35 miles of towing, $40 for > > > membership. > > > http://www.motorcycleriders.tv/ > > > > > > There's also something called "The Auto Club," > which > > > has a $200 towing > > > benefit. Plans are 6 or 7 bucks a month. > > > http://www.theautoclub.com/motorcycle/index.jsp > > > > > > I don't think that USAA has an auto (or > motorcycle) > > > club. > > > > > > I recall from my insurance search that some > insurer > > > has a service you > > > can join whether or not you are insured with > them, > > > but I don't know > > > which it was. > > > > > > Hope this is helpful to someone. > > > > > > Brian > > > 2000 Triumph Legend > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > NOTICE: > > > > > > This message is intended for the use of the > > > individual or entity to which it is addressed > and > > > may contain information that is privileged, > > > confidential and exempt from disclosure under > > > applicable law. If the reader of this message is > not > > > the intended recipient or the employee or agent > > > responsible for delivering this message to the > > > intended recipient, you are hereby notified that > any > > > dissemination, distribution or copying of this > > > communication is strictly prohibited. If you > have > > > received this communication in error, please > notify > > > us immediately by reply or by telephone (call us > > > collect at (202) 434-5000) and immediately > delete > > > this message and all its attachments. > > > > > > > > > ============================================================ > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. > > http://messenger.yahoo.com/ > > > -- > Rob Sharp > 1996 Honda VFR 750 > 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme > SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA > Network Security Engineer > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 9 10:43:43 2004 Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 10:43:40 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: cvkgpena@XXXXXX Reply-To: cvkgpena@XXXXXX To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: 211? Who cares about 211? Great vid! This road is not too far from where I went to high school (boarding military school north of San Diego). And people wonder why California is considered sportbike nirvana. -----Original Message----- From: Bob Meyer Sent: Jun 8, 2004 2:48 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: 211? Who cares about 211? If only this were closer: http://www.thepestilence.com/videos/Ride_Behind_Episode_10.wmv Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" '02 919 I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 9 11:15:45 2004 Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 11:15:32 -0400 From: Brian Roach To: Erick Singley CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Reserve tank Erick Singley wrote: I noticed there was a mesh screen bag over > the regular/reserve inlet ports - could that be gummy - thus slowing > down the feed rate and needing replacement? Those are actually filters. And yeah, the get crudded up, especially on older bikes (they tend to have a good bit of crud in the tank). If it was running fine until you flipped over to reserve, more than likely that's going to be the culprit - nothing else changed. As a first course of action, I'd pull the petcock and clean the screens, as well as blow out the petcock itself with some air. You should also check that the tank vent / vent hose isn't blocked / kinked, although that shouldn't be the problem as it would cause high-rpm fuel starvation no matter if you were on reserve or main. - Roach -- http://www.speedwerks.com The one-stop shop for all your motorcycling needs! (302) 672 - 7223 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 9 11:27:08 2004 Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 11:27:06 -0400 From: Aaron Maurer To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Bike to Norfolk - trip report Thanks to the list for advice on routes to Norfolk. On my trip down over Memorial Day weekend I ended up taking 301 to 3 to 17S. 301 at 9:00 am on Saturday morning was pretty empty of traffic heading south. Stopped at Bojangles for breakfast, used my EZ-pass at the bridge (it worked!) and made great time. 3 is a nice little 55 mph limit road heading in the same direction, with lots of twistyish country backroads turning off from it, as well as George Washington's birthplace and Robert E. Lee's birthplace. For future reference, I wouldn't recommend 17S -- too few curves, too many strip malls, too much traffic, and too many lights. You might as well take I-95 and save yourself the time and aggravation. However, Yorktown National Historical Battlefield (on the way), was a neat stop -- they had a couple regiments of Civil War "troops" out drilling. (Yeah, I though Yorktown was all about the Revolutionary War as well, but it turns out there was a massive Civil War battle there.) On the way back north, I slabbed it via 295 and 95, and made great time until I hit the perfect storm. In a big enough storm, rain can hurt at 75 mph, even through an Aerostitch. I eventually had to pull over underneath an overpass to defog the (full-face) helmet before continuing (and picked up a tick on my leg, despite the 'stitch and boots). I don't know how those poor guys I kept passing on their way back from Rolling Thunder (in half-helmets and trashbags) managed to ride in that sort of rain. Ouch. Aaron 2003 R 1150GS From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 9 11:31:19 2004 From: Lister Lynch To: "'Erick Singley '" , "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX '" Subject: RE: Reserve tank Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 11:32:39 -0400 Figure about 5 seconds for the gas to re-fill the bowls and feed all the jets again. That's with a clean petcock screen. Pretty good mileage, BTW. The superhawk is getting 27mpg as of last night. Mike -----Original Message----- From: Erick Singley To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Sent: 6/9/2004 8:53 AM Subject: Reserve tank Due to various other maintenance issues with my 74' CB750, I filled up the tank on general principal every time I rode out to work. Of late I've been riding until I need to kick in the reserve. (about 3 gallons - 150 miles or so. Not bad for that Old Beast, I'd say.) My question is - Next time I should obviously learn and flip the lever over sooner so I still have proper power when I need it (say, I need to give it gas in an emergency) - but how long might a gravity feed system take, when running at say 4000 rpms to get those carbs happy again? I'm just wondering how long to ride in that situation before wondering if something *else* might be up with something slightly younger than me. When I had the tank apart - I noticed there was a mesh screen bag over the regular/reserve inlet ports - could that be gummy - thus slowing down the feed rate and needing replacement? Erick From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 9 12:05:17 2004 Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 12:09:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Saturdays moto mystery. To: Leon Begeman Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "garcia oliver" Everyone)B’s a winner! Leon is right that the running motor will continue to run when I flip my (formerly) hidden kill switch to )B“off”. It displays the characteristics previously mentioned: lights flicker and motor barely runs and certainly doesn)B’t move the bike. Exactly why this is thus remains unclear (other than the alternator puts out some juice). Just why the horn or brake light gets the engine and lights working is still murky (to me). I haven)B’t yet tested my notion that rain shorted my hidden switch and then evaporated, but I)B’d put money on it. --garcia "All of us are smarter than any of us." Leon Begeman writes: >> What I still don)B’t understand is why the horn or >> brake switch allowed the >> engine to run. And why both combined killed the >> engine and all electric >> power. > >This makes it sound like the alternator is providing >all of the power. Without the horn, brake or battery >to 'stabilize' the power, it doesn't work right. With >both the brake and horn on, you were drawing more >power than the alternator could provide. > >What happens when it's dry and you start the bike then >hit the hidden kill switch? Does the alternator >continue to provide enough current for things to keep >working? If so, your kill switch is in the wrong >place. It lets the bike keep running and just takes >the battery out of the picture. > >Leon. > > >--- garcia oliver wrote: >> A bad ground is a likely suspect for weird >> electrical gremlins. I don)B’t >> think it)B’s the culprit this time because there’s a >> single ground cable and >> wiggling it had no effect on the problem. A bare >> positive wire grounding >> due to water is more plausible, except that flipping >> the hidden kill >> switch immediately fixed everything. >> >> I suspect the following: I had left the hidden >> switch in the )B“off” [open >> circuit to the main fuse] position. Rain had gotten >> into the switch and >> was conductive enough that the switch was )B“on” even >> in the )B“off” position, >> which is why the bike started and ran for a while. >> As the switch heated >> up, water evaporated and the switch started to work >> )B“properly” (i.e., kill >> all power to the main fuse). Good theory? Or am I, >> ah, all wet? >> >> What I still don)B’t understand is why the horn or >> brake switch allowed the >> engine to run. And why both combined killed the >> engine and all electric >> power. >> >> Anyone have ideas? >> >> >> "garcia oliver" writes: >> >Saturday)B’s moto mystery. >> > >> >Saturday, 1 p.m. I have a 1983 GS1100, with a >> hidden kill switch in >> >series with the main fuse. It had been raining >> overnight and the bike)B’s >> >uncovered and has no side covers. I went to ride >> and the bike took a few >> >seconds to start---longer than normal, but rain >> tends to have that effect. >> > After a mile of normal riding, it suddenly lost >> power and I could barely >> >keep the engine running; seemed like it was firing >> on, perhaps, 2 >> >cylinders. Instrument lights were flickering. >> Increasing throttle did >> >not increase rpm. I pulled over, prepared to park >> and arrange a tow. >> > >> >[Your first guess as to what happened goes here. I >> thought: pickup or >> >ignition coil died, perhaps related to water. >> However, this seemed >> >inconsistent with one or more observation from >> above)B…[you may pause to >> >re-read first paragraph] >> > >> >)B…which is]… >> > >> >(1) why throttle increase did not increase engine >> speed?; (2) why >> >flickering lights?] >> > >> > >> >Since I was about to turn off the engine with the >> key, I decided, for no >> >apparent reason, to try the horn first. Suddenly >> all cylinders were >> >firing and lights stopped flickering. Wtf? Horn >> and lights were dim, but >> >engine ran. >> > >> >As long as I kept my thumb on the horn the bike ran >> ok. I then tried the >> >rear brake instead of the horn)B…and this worked, >> too! As long as the brake >> >light was on, the engine was ok. So I rode home >> with the rear brake >> >lightly on. >> > >> >When I got there (and not before) I tried the brake >> *and* the horn >> >together. Engine died. No lights. No electric >> power at all. >> > >> >Checked the battery connections, which seemed ok. >> > >> >So: bad battery, bad ignition switch, blown main >> fuse, or bad hidden kill >> >switch. Flipped hidden kill switch and all the >> lights went on and the >> >engine started. >> > >> >So)B…what was going on? >> > >> >Answer in next email. >> >> > > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 9 12:44:54 2004 Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 12:47:41 -0400 To: Aaron Maurer , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Bike to Norfolk - trip report At 11:27 AM 6/9/04 -0400, Aaron Maurer wrote: >Thanks to the list for advice on routes to Norfolk. > >On my trip down over Memorial Day weekend I ended up taking 301 to 3 to 17S. >For future reference, I wouldn't recommend 17S -- too few curves, too >many strip malls, too much traffic, and too many lights. You might as >well take I-95 and save yourself the time and aggravation. I went down to Va. Beach with the MC-HOGs the week after (last weekend). We took 108 from Olney to 32 to 97 to 50E across the Bay Bridge then down to 13 across the Bay Bridge Tunnel to 60. If you didn't like 17S, you won't like that route either. Mostly straight, with some large sweeping curves, but no twisties (other than one or two on 108, but that's a tiny fraction of the trip). A fair number of traffic lights, though not as closely spaced in most places as they are on 17S down towards the Newport News end. There was some traffic, but it wasn't heavy and we made good time. There's also the Toll Factor ($2.50 at Annapolis and $12 for the Bridge-Tunnel). It was a nice enough ride until we got to the Bay Bridge Tunnel...that's when it started raining. Not a huge problem, though 17 miles of bridge and tunnel in the rain with semis kicking up spray isn't much fun, even with a full-face helmet and proper rain gear on. For the couple on the V-Star ahead of me, wearing 3/4 helmets and sunglasses and a couple of my spare trash bags, it wasn't fun at all (their rain gear was with another bike, and we'd gotten separated at the Bay Bridge toll booths). At least it quit raining the next morning, so the weekend itself was pleasant, and the ride back (up I64->17N->301N->3->32->108) was very pleasant until we hit the heavy traffic on 301/3. That ended when we got up to 32 though. I'm not heavily into twisties, so the 17 route is nice in my opinion, as was the 50-13 one. 64-295-95 is certainly faster, and maybe even slightly shorter (depending on where you are going up here), but it's *boring*. Just straight interstate the whole way. If you are in a hurry, it's the way to go though. >I don't know how those poor guys I kept passing on their way back from >Rolling Thunder (in half-helmets and trashbags) managed to ride in >that sort of rain. Ouch. I didn't stick around downtown after RT. My dad was in town (for the WWII memorial dedication), so we headed over to his hotel to visit for a bit, then headed home. Got sprinkled on a bit as soon as we hit the GW Parkway, but it was very light, so we didn't bother with rain gear and just kept going. Only got slightly damp by the time we got up near Rockville, where it was about stopped anyway. Oh, I was wearing the full-face helmet...as was my GF on the back. It does work better in the rain than the half-helmet, and it wasn't a really hot day anyway. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 9 12:51:48 2004 Reply-To: "Jon Strang" From: "Jon Strang" To: "DC Cycles" Subject: Re: Some opinions please... Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 12:53:09 -0400 I don't think any one is really different as far as maintenance. Sure, a single is easier to work on than a twin, but all three bikes should be expected to be very reliable...and require only the basic "change the oil, clean the airfilter, buy new tires" stuff...which is about the same. If you are looking used, and you really like all three, just pick the combination of the best maintained, the best condition, and the best bargain you can find. Sit on an example of all three, see which one physically fits you best. All things being equal, though I'd do the most important thing when it comes to motorcycles--pick the one that speaks to you. --jon ----- Gwen Dade carefully queried: I'm looking at buying my first bike, have decided that a 250 would get boring right away, so have narrowed it down to three choices (Honda Shadow is not even an option--the center of gravity on that bike makes it impossible for me to move it). Suzuki Savage 650 Yamaha VStar Custom Kawasaki Vulcan 500 LTD In regards to self-maintenance, which one would be the easier of the three? Also, any recommendations on which is safer, etc. I'm 5'6" and weigh 122lbs, so WHEN I slide it (as I'm sure I will), I also wanna be able to pick it up. I've been looking at some reviews, but managed to buy a wise-ass book, which doesn't lean towards one anymore than the other and doesn't talk about maintaining the bikes at all. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 9 13:08:07 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 13:07:54 EDT Subject: Re: Reserve tank To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/9/2004 11:16:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time, roach@XXXXXX writes: > If it was running fine until you flipped over to reserve, more than > likely that's going to be the culprit I agree with everything Roach said but would add, based on the statement: > I filled > up the tank on general principal every time I rode out to work. Of > late I've been riding until I need to kick in the reserve. There is a possibility that there may be water or other contaminant in you fuel tank. Remember that the reserve draws fuel from the very bottom of the tank while the main draws fuel from a couple of inches above the bottom of the tank. If the reserve is rarely used water etc. can build up in the bottom of the tank so that when you do turn it on you get a load of shit. I would drain the bottom of the tank (several ways to do that) and drain the float bowls on the carbs just to be sure. (Oh and the fuel valve itself should have a water trap and filter that need to be cleaned.) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 9 13:10:30 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 13:10:19 EDT Subject: Re: Some opinions please... To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/9/2004 12:52:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jmstrang@XXXXXX writes: > All things being equal, though I'd do the most important thing when it comes > to motorcycles--pick the one that speaks to you. That should always be the bottom line. Oh if you still cannot decide, check insurance cost for each bike, sometimes the difference can make the decision for you. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 9 13:35:02 2004 Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 13:33:56 -0400 (EDT) From: dan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Some opinions please... On Tue, 8 Jun 2004, Gwen Dade wrote: > I apologize in advance for any fighting that might be caused by the help I'm > requesting. > > I'm looking at buying my first bike, have decided that a 250 would get boring right > away, so have narrowed it down to three choices (Honda Shadow is not even an > option--the center of gravity on that bike makes it impossible for me to move it). > > 1. Suzuki Savage 650 > 2. Yamaha VStar Custom > 3. Kawasaki Vulcan 500 LTD > IMO, the VStar is in another class when it comes to the 3. The 500 LTD has always seemed way cheapo to me. I've ridden the savage and was very unimpressive, it steered like a tank. I used to own a Vstar 1100, it was a GREAT bike. Only gotcha with any of those is that they will be less than ideal on the freeway due to high engine revs. I'm with the others, get a cheapo to learn on then get what you really want. Dan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 9 14:02:43 2004 Subject: Exponential Dumb Assedness Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 14:02:34 -0400 From: "Julian Halton" To: Beautiful day take a drive down to DC to have lunch at Finemundos on F and 14th. On my way back down Constitution, I am in the far right lane heading towards 66 West. This van to my left is keeping pace with me and the passenger is looking over. Sure enough they accelerate and then swerve into my lane without signaling to make a right turn onto 23rd or 24th. I anticipated this nonsense and reduced my speed. What I did not anticipate was this ^&*$%% slamming on the brakes. Front bake squeeze..rear brake applied to the point of slip sliding away. I come to a stop inches in front of the guy. He makes a right and I move forward. At this point I am having a Soprano moment and can't believe that this miserable excuse for a cretin saw me , swerved into my lane and slammed on the brakes. I circled around the next right before 66 but the next right was blocked off so I took this as a sign and moto'ed back to the safe haven of VA. My hands are shaking as I type this. I KNOW the guy saw me and this was his idea of fun. Lesson learned...When I apply the dumb ass principle to every moving object around me...ie..what is the most dumb ass thing this individual can do...in DC it is not sufficient. Like chess you have to think a few moves in advance. I was very close to being in a wreck. Severely Unimpressed and dreaming of making this individual gargle with DRANO. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 9 14:15:07 2004 Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 14:15:08 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Erick Singley Subject: Re: Reserve tank >In a message dated 6/9/2004 11:16:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >roach@XXXXXX writes: > >> If it was running fine until you flipped over to reserve, more than >> likely that's going to be the culprit > >I agree with everything Roach said but would add, based on the statement: > >> I filled >> up the tank on general principal every time I rode out to work. Of >> late I've been riding until I need to kick in the reserve. > >There is a possibility that there may be water or other contaminant in you >fuel tank. Remember that the reserve draws fuel from the very bottom >of the tank >while the main draws fuel from a couple of inches above the bottom of the >tank. If the reserve is rarely used water etc. can build up in the >bottom of the >tank so that when you do turn it on you get a load of shit. >I would drain the bottom of the tank (several ways to do that) and drain the >float bowls on the carbs just to be sure. (Oh and the fuel valve itself should >have a water trap and filter that need to be cleaned.) Thanks to everyone who replied. I *thought* I had already taken care of those things (cleaning the frit within the petcock, changed fuel filter post-petcock & checked for debris in tank last Fall, had added 'gas treatment' last month) but you know what Assumptions make... I'll check those things again - add more gas treatment and replace that mesh filter within the tank, too. I'm pretty sure the fuel filter does *not* have a water trap. I'll look into that. It'll give me a good excuse to get my hands on the carbs anyway. I had mentioned to a long time rider that I felt a power surging at high rpms (felt like my motion was subtly changing and the engine noise was wavering - once a second or so)... sometimes. He said that the seals around the carbs on a older bike could degrade and to spray some brake cleaner around the carb/body interface (while on the stand) and see if the engine noise changes. If that's not it, I bookmarked some ideas from a SOHC bulletin board. thanks for the input , Erick 74' CB-750 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 9 14:43:10 2004 Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 14:43:02 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: cvkgpena@XXXXXX Reply-To: cvkgpena@XXXXXX To: Julian Halton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Exponential Dumb Assedness Julian, And people ask me why I'm not interested in riding my motorcycle to work. %^) City riding is a whole different animal. Just not my personal idea of fun and why I ride a motorcycle. High speeds in the twisties is where all the fun is at IMHO. I guess it all depends on how you view a motorcycle. For many, it is transportation. For me, it's recreation. Although, I admit that if I actually lived in the city, I'd probably own a scooter for getting around in traffic. Cheers, Chuck P.S. I used to be a bicycle courier so you'd think I wouldn't have a problem riding a motorcycle in the city. Go figure. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 9 14:46:37 2004 Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 14:46:26 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Exponential Dumb Assedness X-AOL-IP: 65.86.98.162 X-AOL-Language: english Well....I think they were talking about it on the news last night about how people are doing this sort of thing intentionally to get insurance money. It's usually two cars riding beside each other. When they get an impatient "pigeon" behind them, one slows down while the other speeds up to continue. When the "pigeon" speeds up to pass the slowing car, the other slams on their brakes. I can see them doing this to bikes as well. Scooter (I'm not paranoid. Everyone IS out to get me. :-)) In a message dated 6/9/2004 2:02:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, julian@XXXXXX writes: > > > > Beautiful day take a drive down to DC to have lunch at Finemundos on F > and 14th. On my way back down Constitution, I am in the far right lane > heading towards 66 West. This van to my left is keeping pace with me > and the passenger is looking over. Sure enough they accelerate and then > swerve into my lane without signaling to make a right turn onto 23rd or > 24th. I anticipated this nonsense and reduced my speed. What I did not > anticipate was this ^&*$%% slamming on the brakes. Front bake > squeeze..rear brake applied to the point of slip sliding away. I come > to a stop inches in front of the guy. He makes a right and I move > forward. > > At this point I am having a Soprano moment and can't believe that this > miserable excuse for a cretin saw me , swerved into my lane and slammed > on the brakes. I circled around the next right before 66 but the next > right was blocked off so I took this as a sign and moto'ed back to the > safe haven of VA. My hands are shaking as I type this. I KNOW the guy > saw me and this was his idea of fun. > > Lesson learned...When I apply the dumb ass principle to every moving > object around me...ie..what is the most dumb ass thing this individual > can do...in DC it is not sufficient. Like chess you have to think a few > moves in advance. I was very close to being in a wreck. > > Severely Unimpressed and dreaming of making this individual > gargle with > DRANO. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 9 14:59:42 2004 Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 15:02:30 -0400 To: "Julian Halton" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Exponential Dumb Assedness At 02:02 PM 6/9/04 -0400, Julian Halton wrote: > >Lesson learned...When I apply the dumb ass principle to every moving >object around me...ie..what is the most dumb ass thing this individual >can do...in DC it is not sufficient. Like chess you have to think a few >moves in advance. I was very close to being in a wreck. Good job avoiding that one...both the anticipation and the bike handling to implement it. Glad you are ok. The cretin may very well have done it on purpose, but it's at least as likely, in this area anyway, that he thinks that's proper driving. Passenger says, "There's a motorcycle next to us...", the driver speeds up to get past you, then cuts over for the turn...it follows all the usual rules of D.C. driving: "ME FIRST!!!" - i.e. never slow down and pull in behind if you can speed up and cut in in front. "NEVER SIGNAL!!!" - this is called "giving information to the enemy"...i.e. other drivers. Who knows what diabolical things they will do with it? "DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO GO WHERE YOU WANT, SCREW THE LAWS AND OTHER DRIVERS!!!" - i.e. back down on-ramps if you went the wrong way, stop in heavy traffic to make a left at a no-left-turn intersection, cut across three lanes in one big motion rather than go an extra block and come back, etc., etc.. The cretins aren't confined to the D.C. city limits either. They are all over the area. Had a moron make a left in front of me Monday (I was in my Jeep, not on the bike), without signalling, a block from the Rockville Courthouse, and then have the gall to look surprised when I honked at him as I hit the brakes to avoid running into him (I was going straight). Yes, I half expected him to do that, but it still pissed me off when he turned without a signal as I was starting through the intersection, and he deserved the honk...and the finger...that he got. Too bad there wasn't a cop handy...that close to the Courthouse there are often several about. >Severely Unimpressed and dreaming of making this individual gargle with >DRANO. I can relate. I like your phrase "Soprano Moment"...I suspect it will get swiped and used again... ;-) Again, good job, and glad you are ok. You did well...including not making the guy gargle with Drano. That sort of thing is likely to get you talked about in the wrong circles. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 9 15:07:07 2004 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Exponential Dumb Assedness Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 14:55:51 -0400 While I've been studying for some exams I've been riding the Metro to work instead of taking the bike. I can almost see myself continuing to ride the Metro after my exams are finished. It's nice to get something done while commuting and my commute is the same time wise either way. Plus keeps me from getting pulled over for lane-splitting or speeding, if I were to do so on my commute. >From: cvkgpena@XXXXXX >Reply-To: cvkgpena@XXXXXX >To: Julian Halton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: Exponential Dumb Assedness >Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 14:43:02 -0400 (GMT-04:00) > >And people ask me why I'm not interested in riding my motorcycle to work. >%^) City riding is a whole different animal. Just not my personal idea of >fun and why I ride a motorcycle. High speeds in the twisties is where all >the fun is at IMHO. I guess it all depends on how you view a motorcycle. >For many, it is transportation. For me, it's recreation. Although, I >admit that if I actually lived in the city, I'd probably own a scooter for >getting around in traffic. Cheers, >Chuck >P.S. I used to be a bicycle courier so you'd think I wouldn't have a >problem riding a motorcycle in the city. Go figure. _________________________________________________________________ Get fast, reliable Internet access with MSN 9 Dial-up )B– now 3 months FREE! http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 9 15:29:13 2004 From: "Perry Coleman" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Exponential Dumb Assedness Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 15:28:05 -0400 Julian, Glad to hear you survived the experience unscathed (physically, at least). My basic rule for commuting, especially in the city: Assume that they don't see you; If they do see you, assume that they want to kill you. This has worked well for me over the years. Perry >From: "Julian Halton" >To: >Subject: Exponential Dumb Assedness >Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 14:02:34 -0400 > > >Beautiful day take a drive down to DC to have lunch at Finemundos on F >and 14th. On my way back down Constitution, I am in the far right lane >heading towards 66 West. This van to my left is keeping pace with me >and the passenger is looking over. Sure enough they accelerate and then >swerve into my lane without signaling to make a right turn onto 23rd or >24th. I anticipated this nonsense and reduced my speed. What I did not >anticipate was this ^&*$%% slamming on the brakes. Front bake >squeeze..rear brake applied to the point of slip sliding away. I come >to a stop inches in front of the guy. He makes a right and I move >forward. > >At this point I am having a Soprano moment and can't believe that this >miserable excuse for a cretin saw me , swerved into my lane and slammed >on the brakes. I circled around the next right before 66 but the next >right was blocked off so I took this as a sign and moto'ed back to the >safe haven of VA. My hands are shaking as I type this. I KNOW the guy >saw me and this was his idea of fun. > >Lesson learned...When I apply the dumb ass principle to every moving >object around me...ie..what is the most dumb ass thing this individual >can do...in DC it is not sufficient. Like chess you have to think a few >moves in advance. I was very close to being in a wreck. > >Severely Unimpressed and dreaming of making this individual gargle with >DRANO. > _________________________________________________________________ Check out the coupons and bargains on MSN Offers! http://youroffers.msn.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 9 15:43:41 2004 Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 12:43:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Kelly Norton Subject: Re: Exponential Dumb Assedness To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: Julian Halton Today seems to be one of those days. This is how my morning commute went.... I'm riding to work today on 7 east from Leesburg to Sterling. So I'm in the left part of the left lane about 5 or 6 car lengths behind this minivan. I see an ambulance coming down the road in the other direction so I prepare myself for someone doing something stupid. Sure enough, the minivan in front of me finally sees the ambulance and about 50ft from the approaching intersection, she SLAMS on the brakes and comes to a skidding stop. I do a slight emergency stop and come up to the right side of her just in case the person behind me can't make the stop. about 2 miles later, I'm back over in the left part of the left lane and I see this SUV in the far right lane drift over into the center lane. Then she starts drifting over in the lane I'm currently occupying. I start to brake and press the horn button. No sound from the horn. I press the horn button again. still nothing. So I just brake and let this Bitch take my lane. At the next light I give her the finger. I'm pretty pissed at this point so I think I did alright to not do anything else. I was having a "Soprano Moment" then. I get to the parking lot at work (2 miles later). Press the horn button and it works fine. The only thing I can figure is that maybe there was some water getting in the way somehow since I washed the bike and put it away at the end of the last ride. Sometimes these people remind me of something an old army electronics instructor used to say when someone would do something stupid. "You must be doing this on purpose because it's BIOLOGICALLY IMPOSSIBLE FOR ANYONE TO BE THAT FUCKING STUPID". Julian Halton wrote: > > >Beautiful day take a drive down to DC to have lunch at Finemundos on F > >and 14th. On my way back down Constitution, I am in the far right lane > >heading towards 66 West. This van to my left is keeping pace with me > >and the passenger is looking over. Sure enough they accelerate and then > >swerve into my lane without signaling to make a right turn onto 23rd or > >24th. I anticipated this nonsense and reduced my speed. What I did not > >anticipate was this ^&*$%% slamming on the brakes. Front bake > >squeeze..rear brake applied to the point of slip sliding away. I come > >to a stop inches in front of the guy. He makes a right and I move > >forward. > > > >At this point I am having a Soprano moment and can't believe that this > >miserable excuse for a cretin saw me , swerved into my lane and slammed > >on the brakes. I circled around the next right before 66 but the next > >right was blocked off so I took this as a sign and moto'ed back to the > >safe haven of VA. My hands are shaking as I type this. I KNOW the guy > >saw me and this was his idea of fun. > > > >Lesson learned...When I apply the dumb ass principle to every moving > >object around me...ie..what is the most dumb ass thing this individual > >can do...in DC it is not sufficient. Like chess you have to think a few > >moves in advance. I was very close to being in a wreck. > > > >Severely Unimpressed and dreaming of making this individual gargle with > >DRANO. > > > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 9 16:14:40 2004 Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 16:17:28 -0400 To: Kelly Norton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Exponential Dumb Assedness Cc: Julian Halton At 12:43 PM 6/9/04 -0700, Kelly Norton wrote: >about 2 miles later, I'm back over in the left part of the left lane and >I see this SUV in the far right lane drift over into the center lane. >Then she starts drifting over in the lane I'm currently occupying. Why do you hang in the left part of the left lane when riding alone? That can easily make the lane appear empty to a driver in the right lane who "doesn't see" motorcycles. Their tiny brains see a lot of empty pavement next to them, and it gets relayed to the decision section as "available lane space to move into". You being way over there on the far side either gets overlooked entirely, or you are perceived as in the *next* lane, or making a left or pulling off onto the shoulder or something (don't ask me...). The more distracted the driver is (cell phone, yelling kids, favorite song on the radio, cigarette ash just fell in their lap, etc.) the more likely something like this is to happen. When in the left lane of a two lane I tend to hang more to the right of the center to avoid that problem. Sort of defending the borders of my lane. When in the right lane, I stay on the left side of it for the same reason. When there are three lanes, and I have to be in the middle for some reason, I stay in the middle, unless the road is wet or there is some other reason not to, and I try to be even more alert than normal for lane changers. The only reason I can see for being in the left side of the left lane is to stay lined up with the drivers ahead and behind, which might keep you in their attention better, but a few swerves over there now and again (pothole avoidance will do that) will remind them you are there, and once they know that, they don't usually forget it. The folks passing or being passed in adjacent lanes are a bigger problem IMO. I don't know what the MSF course has to say about this question...but I'd love to hear it. The above is based on almost 30 years of driving, and half a dozen years with bikes, and it works out most of the time. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 9 16:27:54 2004 Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 13:27:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Kelly Norton Subject: Re: Exponential Dumb Assedness To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: Mike Bartman I usually hang out in the left part of the left lane so that when someone does start drifting over I still have most of the lane between me and them. Gives me more time and room to get out of the way. Plus I'm not all the way over to the edge of the lane, just in the left tire track. Of course I don't ride in the right tire track when I'm in the right lane. I think that's because I don't want people to think I'm like a bicycle and they can pass me. Mike Bartman wrote: >At 12:43 PM 6/9/04 -0700, Kelly Norton wrote: > > > > > >>about 2 miles later, I'm back over in the left part of the left lane and >> >> > > > >>I see this SUV in the far right lane drift over into the center lane. >> >> > > > >>Then she starts drifting over in the lane I'm currently occupying. >> >> > > > >Why do you hang in the left part of the left lane when riding alone? > > > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 9 16:43:39 2004 Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 13:43:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Exponential Dumb Assedness To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Kelly Norton wrote: > I usually hang out in the left part of the left lane > so that when someone does start drifting over I still have most of > the lane between me and them. Gives me more time and room to get out of > the way. Plus I'm not all the way over to the edge of the lane, just in > the left tire track. I noticed that when I started hanging in the right side of the left lane, my number of close calls reduced significantly. I'm also a bit more agressive. When I see someone pacing me I'll either speed up or slow way down (mostly speed up). I've also found myself _very_ close to the line in an attempt to make me visible to the guys in the right lanes. I watch: 1) the guy next to me or to the front right, 2) the guy behind him (in my "blind spot"), 3) the guy behind me, 4) the guy two or three cars in front of me and 5) the guy in front of me. > > Of course I don't ride in the right tire track when > I'm in the right lane. I think that's because I don't want people to > think I'm like a bicycle and they can pass me. I tend to ride in the track where I think someone will come. In the left of the right lane until I get to an on ramp then I move to the right. I prefer the far left or right lanes when on the slab since it's easier to watch and defend one side of the track. Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 9 17:28:07 2004 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'DCCycles'" Cc: "'rmeyer9@XXXXXX'" Subject: 211? Who cares about 211? Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 17:30:22 -0400 Bob Mused, "If only this were closer: [Carl]: If you like sweepers the BRP is right handy and much greener. Shoot, Rt 17 in Merryland is like that -- just more pick-em-ups to dodge. Routes 25 and 33 from I81 into W(BG)V are also nice. If you prefer something twistier, yesterday I enjoyed Rt. 16 twixt Sophia WV and Tazwell VA. The northern part of Route 16 is fun too. Sunday included Route 160 twixt VA & KY (A good rival for the Dragon.), Route70 twixt TN and VA, and a lotta Rt. 83 in VA. Turn off the monitor, grab a map, get on the bike and discover that most folks only pay $1.90 per gallon for gasoline. Carl in Bethesda "hypocritical safety nazi pussy: full-face" I can't help it, my Shoei is quiet and I like to polka while I ride: From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 9 17:35:58 2004 From: "Rob Sharp" To: cvkgpena@XXXXXX, Julian Halton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Exponential Dumb Assedness Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 17:38:13 -0400 I am with Chuck. While as of later I am riding to work, I am usually not inclined to ride to work cause the 270S-495E-Tysons area commute is a killer with lots mobile retards. People at work always hound me to ride and I am like you think stop and go on the beltway is more fun on a motorcycle cause it's not, at the most it's a LOT hotter than the AC comfort of my S10 :) Regards Rob On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 14:43:02 -0400 (GMT-04:00), cvkgpena wrote > Julian, > > And people ask me why I'm not interested in riding my motorcycle to > work. %^) City riding is a whole different animal. Just not my > personal idea of fun and why I ride a motorcycle. High speeds in > the twisties is where all the fun is at IMHO. I guess it all > depends on how you view a motorcycle. For many, it is > transportation. For me, it's recreation. Although, I admit that if > I actually lived in the city, I'd probably own a scooter for getting > around in traffic. Cheers, > > Chuck > > P.S. I used to be a bicycle courier so you'd think I wouldn't have > a problem riding a motorcycle in the city. Go figure. -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 9 17:38:58 2004 From: "Rob Sharp" To: "Julian Halton" , Subject: Re: Exponential Dumb Assedness Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 17:41:14 -0400 I had a SUV driving the wrong way on an off ramp run me off the road. That sucked and it was at Poolsville, MD exit. To top if off after running me off the road they continued on and tried to merge into traffic going north on I 270 southbound. Lots of horns and about 2 minutes later they decided to turn around. They of course IGNORE that I was there on the side of the road freaking out cause someone almost killed me. Regards, Rob sharp On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 14:02:34 -0400, Julian Halton wrote > Beautiful day take a drive down to DC to have lunch at Finemundos on > F and 14th. On my way back down Constitution, I am in the far right > lane heading towards 66 West. This van to my left is keeping pace > with me and the passenger is looking over. Sure enough they > accelerate and then swerve into my lane without signaling to make a > right turn onto 23rd or 24th. I anticipated this nonsense and > reduced my speed. What I did not anticipate was this ^&*$%% > slamming on the brakes. Front bake squeeze..rear brake applied to > the point of slip sliding away. I come to a stop inches in front of > the guy. He makes a right and I move forward. > > At this point I am having a Soprano moment and can't believe that > this miserable excuse for a cretin saw me , swerved into my lane and > slammed on the brakes. I circled around the next right before 66 > but the next right was blocked off so I took this as a sign and > moto'ed back to the safe haven of VA. My hands are shaking as I > type this. I KNOW the guy saw me and this was his idea of fun. > > Lesson learned...When I apply the dumb ass principle to every moving > object around me...ie..what is the most dumb ass thing this > individual can do...in DC it is not sufficient. Like chess you have > to think a few moves in advance. I was very close to being in a wreck. > > Severely Unimpressed and dreaming of making this individual gargle with > DRANO. -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 9 17:50:31 2004 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Exponential Dumb Assedness Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 17:52:47 -0400 I think the Israel bikers got down a good defensive driving technique. http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/israelibike.jpg Rob On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 13:43:23 -0700 (PDT), Carl Schelin wrote > --- Kelly Norton wrote: > > I usually hang out in the left part of the left lane > > so that when someone does start drifting over I still have most of > > the lane between me and them. Gives me more time and room to get out of > > the way. Plus I'm not all the way over to the edge of the lane, just in > > the left tire track. > > I noticed that when I started hanging in the right side of the left > lane, my number of close calls reduced significantly. I'm also a bit > more agressive. When I see someone pacing me I'll either speed up or > slow way down (mostly speed up). I've also found myself _very_ close > to the line in an attempt to make me visible to the guys in the > right lanes. > > I watch: 1) the guy next to me or to the front right, 2) the guy behind > him (in my "blind spot"), 3) the guy behind me, 4) the guy two or three > cars in front of me and 5) the guy in front of me. > > > > > Of course I don't ride in the right tire track when > > I'm in the right lane. I think that's because I don't want people to > > think I'm like a bicycle and they can pass me. > > I tend to ride in the track where I think someone will come. In the left > of the right lane until I get to an on ramp then I move to the > right. I prefer the far left or right lanes when on the slab since > it's easier to watch and defend one side of the track. > > Carl > > ===== > 02 Harley FXSTI > 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W > 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. > http://messenger.yahoo.com/ -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 9 18:10:20 2004 From: Jason Picton To: "'Julian Halton'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Exponential Dumb Assedness Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 18:10:03 -0400 It actually might not have been intentional... I got run off the road on rt 32 in MD .. An older guy and I made eye contact and he kept moving over - even after I blew my horn.... Nothing bad happend - I pulled off onto the shoulder - It was scary moment... Guy stopped and said he was sorry - He said it just didn't register that I was there... Some folks just don't see motorcycles... My folks never realized how many of us were out on the roads till I started riding... Not everyone is an ass on the road... but in Dc.. I will give you the benefit of the doubt Jason -----Original Message----- From: Julian Halton [mailto:julian@XXXXXX] Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 2:03 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Exponential Dumb Assedness Beautiful day take a drive down to DC to have lunch at Finemundos on F and 14th. On my way back down Constitution, I am in the far right lane heading towards 66 West. This van to my left is keeping pace with me and the passenger is looking over. Sure enough they accelerate and then swerve into my lane without signaling to make a right turn onto 23rd or 24th. I anticipated this nonsense and reduced my speed. What I did not anticipate was this ^&*$%% slamming on the brakes. Front bake squeeze..rear brake applied to the point of slip sliding away. I come to a stop inches in front of the guy. He makes a right and I move forward. At this point I am having a Soprano moment and can't believe that this miserable excuse for a cretin saw me , swerved into my lane and slammed on the brakes. I circled around the next right before 66 but the next right was blocked off so I took this as a sign and moto'ed back to the safe haven of VA. My hands are shaking as I type this. I KNOW the guy saw me and this was his idea of fun. Lesson learned...When I apply the dumb ass principle to every moving object around me...ie..what is the most dumb ass thing this individual can do...in DC it is not sufficient. Like chess you have to think a few moves in advance. I was very close to being in a wreck. Severely Unimpressed and dreaming of making this individual gargle with DRANO. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 9 18:31:05 2004 Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 15:30:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Hugh Caldwell Subject: RE: Exponential Dumb Assedness To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." Hanlon's Razor ===== Hugh Caldwell http://www.twowheelsgood.net __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 9 18:50:24 2004 Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 18:51:12 -0400 Subject: Motorcycle Towing From: Bob McKeithen To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Brian you might want to take another look at the AMA plan. I have something from them called Motow. For fifty bucks a year it covers anything I or my wife drive or ride. I have never had to use it for a motorcycle, but my wife has used it twice for car problems. Seemed to be trouble free. Bob From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 9 19:25:22 2004 Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 16:25:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Exponential Dumb Assedness To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Hmm, it only says "Image hosted by Anglefire". I'm getting ready to run so I'll poke around when we get back. Carl --- Rob Sharp wrote: > I think the Israel bikers got down a good defensive driving technique. > > http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/israelibike.jpg > > > Rob > > On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 13:43:23 -0700 (PDT), Carl Schelin wrote > > --- Kelly Norton wrote: > > > I usually hang out in the left part of the left lane > > > so that when someone does start drifting over I still have most of > > > the lane between me and them. Gives me more time and room to get out > of > > > the way. Plus I'm not all the way over to the edge of the lane, just > in > > > the left tire track. > > > > I noticed that when I started hanging in the right side of the left > > lane, my number of close calls reduced significantly. I'm also a bit > > more agressive. When I see someone pacing me I'll either speed up or > > slow way down (mostly speed up). I've also found myself _very_ close > > to the line in an attempt to make me visible to the guys in the > > right lanes. > > > > I watch: 1) the guy next to me or to the front right, 2) the guy > behind > > him (in my "blind spot"), 3) the guy behind me, 4) the guy two or > three > > cars in front of me and 5) the guy in front of me. > > > > > > > > Of course I don't ride in the right tire track when > > > I'm in the right lane. I think that's because I don't want people to > > > think I'm like a bicycle and they can pass me. > > > > I tend to ride in the track where I think someone will come. In the > left > > of the right lane until I get to an on ramp then I move to the > > right. I prefer the far left or right lanes when on the slab since > > it's easier to watch and defend one side of the track. > > > > Carl > > > > ===== > > 02 Harley FXSTI > > 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W > > 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. > > http://messenger.yahoo.com/ > > > -- > Rob Sharp > 1996 Honda VFR 750 > 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme > SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA > Network Security Engineer > ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 9 21:37:14 2004 From: "Rob Sharp" To: dm_gsxr@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Fw: Re: Exponential Dumb Assedness Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 21:39:29 -0400 hmm It works for me but maybe this is just weird refer/cookie protection? So I hosted it on my site. http://www.sharpie.org/media/israelibike.jpg Rob ---------- Forwarded Message ----------- From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Sent: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 16:25:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Exponential Dumb Assedness Hmm, it only says "Image hosted by Anglefire". I'm getting ready to run so I'll poke around when we get back. Carl --- Rob Sharp wrote: > I think the Israel bikers got down a good defensive driving technique. > > http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/israelibike.jpg > > > Rob > > On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 13:43:23 -0700 (PDT), Carl Schelin wrote > > --- Kelly Norton wrote: > > > I usually hang out in the left part of the left lane > > > so that when someone does start drifting over I still have most of > > > the lane between me and them. Gives me more time and room to get out > of > > > the way. Plus I'm not all the way over to the edge of the lane, just > in > > > the left tire track. > > > > I noticed that when I started hanging in the right side of the left > > lane, my number of close calls reduced significantly. I'm also a bit > > more agressive. When I see someone pacing me I'll either speed up or > > slow way down (mostly speed up). I've also found myself _very_ close > > to the line in an attempt to make me visible to the guys in the > > right lanes. > > > > I watch: 1) the guy next to me or to the front right, 2) the guy > behind > > him (in my "blind spot"), 3) the guy behind me, 4) the guy two or > three > > cars in front of me and 5) the guy in front of me. > > > > > > > > Of course I don't ride in the right tire track when > > > I'm in the right lane. I think that's because I don't want people to > > > think I'm like a bicycle and they can pass me. > > > > I tend to ride in the track where I think someone will come. In the > left > > of the right lane until I get to an on ramp then I move to the > > right. I prefer the far left or right lanes when on the slab since > > it's easier to watch and defend one side of the track. > > > > Carl > > > > ===== > > 02 Harley FXSTI > > 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W > > 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. > > http://messenger.yahoo.com/ > > > -- > Rob Sharp > 1996 Honda VFR 750 > 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme > SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA > Network Security Engineer > ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ ------- End of Forwarded Message ------- -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 9 22:05:34 2004 Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 19:05:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Fw: Re: Exponential Dumb Assedness To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Could be. I was able to see it this time plus Aki sent it. That's what we need though. Maybe one of the HOV dummies on the back of the bike with a super-soaker ;-) Thanks. Carl --- Rob Sharp wrote: > hmm It works for me but maybe this is just weird refer/cookie > protection? > > So I hosted it on my site. http://www.sharpie.org/media/israelibike.jpg > > Rob > ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 9 23:27:19 2004 From: Daniel To: "Julian Halton" Cc: Subject: Re: Exponential Dumb Assedness Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 23:26:27 -0400 I'd love to help you slow torture the guy.. what a jackazz.. that's 1 reason why I don't ride next to vehicles.. i'll either speed up or slow down. On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 14:02:34 -0400, "Julian Halton" wrote: > >Beautiful day take a drive down to DC to have lunch at Finemundos on F >and 14th. On my way back down Constitution, I am in the far right lane >heading towards 66 West. This van to my left is keeping pace with me >and the passenger is looking over. Sure enough they accelerate and then >swerve into my lane without signaling to make a right turn onto 23rd or >24th. I anticipated this nonsense and reduced my speed. What I did not >anticipate was this ^&*$%% slamming on the brakes. Front bake >squeeze..rear brake applied to the point of slip sliding away. I come >to a stop inches in front of the guy. He makes a right and I move >forward. > >At this point I am having a Soprano moment and can't believe that this >miserable excuse for a cretin saw me , swerved into my lane and slammed >on the brakes. I circled around the next right before 66 but the next >right was blocked off so I took this as a sign and moto'ed back to the >safe haven of VA. My hands are shaking as I type this. I KNOW the guy >saw me and this was his idea of fun. > >Lesson learned...When I apply the dumb ass principle to every moving >object around me...ie..what is the most dumb ass thing this individual >can do...in DC it is not sufficient. Like chess you have to think a few >moves in advance. I was very close to being in a wreck. > >Severely Unimpressed and dreaming of making this individual gargle with >DRANO. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 9 23:37:07 2004 Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 22:45:16 -0400 To: "Custer, Carl" , "'DCCycles'" From: Bob Meyer Subject: Re: 211? Who cares about 211? At 05:30 PM 6/9/2004 -0400, Custer, Carl wrote: >Bob Mused, "If only this were closer: > > >[Carl]: If you like sweepers the BRP is right handy and much greener. And with far more police :-( >Shoot, Rt 17 in Merryland is like that -- just more pick-em-ups to dodge. Pick-em-ups :-( >Routes 25 and 33 from I81 into W(BG)V are also nice. Agreed >If you prefer something twistier, yesterday I enjoyed Rt. 16 twixt Sophia WV >and Tazwell VA. The northern part of Route 16 is fun too. >Sunday included Route 160 twixt VA & KY (A good rival for the Dragon.), >Route70 twixt TN and VA, and a lotta Rt. 83 in VA. Been meaning to try some of these local (sort of) roads. Bob Meyer, STOC # 1157 '92 ST1100, Candy Glory Red '02 ST1100 A, Candy Wineberry Red '02 919, Asphalt "Attack Life. It's going to kill you anyway." From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 9 23:37:14 2004 Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 22:52:42 -0400 To: Mike Bartman , Kelly Norton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Bob Meyer Subject: Re: Exponential Dumb Assedness Cc: Julian Halton Gee, I agree with Bartman on something! This wasn't mentioned "officially" in the ERC I just took. But one of the instructors did say the when driving on a multi lane road he tends to ride to the right side of the left lane or, if he needs to be in the right lane, to the left side of that lane. Bob Meyer At 04:17 PM 6/9/2004 -0400, Mike Bartman wrote: >At 12:43 PM 6/9/04 -0700, Kelly Norton wrote: > > >about 2 miles later, I'm back over in the left part of the left lane and > >I see this SUV in the far right lane drift over into the center lane. > >Then she starts drifting over in the lane I'm currently occupying. > >Why do you hang in the left part of the left lane when riding alone? > >That can easily make the lane appear empty to a driver in the right lane >who "doesn't see" motorcycles. Their tiny brains see a lot of empty >pavement next to them, and it gets relayed to the decision section as >"available lane space to move into". You being way over there on the far >side either gets overlooked entirely, or you are perceived as in the *next* >lane, or making a left or pulling off onto the shoulder or something (don't >ask me...). The more distracted the driver is (cell phone, yelling kids, >favorite song on the radio, cigarette ash just fell in their lap, etc.) the >more likely something like this is to happen. > >When in the left lane of a two lane I tend to hang more to the right of the >center to avoid that problem. Sort of defending the borders of my lane. >When in the right lane, I stay on the left side of it for the same reason. >When there are three lanes, and I have to be in the middle for some reason, >I stay in the middle, unless the road is wet or there is some other reason >not to, and I try to be even more alert than normal for lane changers. > >The only reason I can see for being in the left side of the left lane is to >stay lined up with the drivers ahead and behind, which might keep you in >their attention better, but a few swerves over there now and again (pothole >avoidance will do that) will remind them you are there, and once they know >that, they don't usually forget it. The folks passing or being passed in >adjacent lanes are a bigger problem IMO. > >I don't know what the MSF course has to say about this question...but I'd >love to hear it. The above is based on almost 30 years of driving, and >half a dozen years with bikes, and it works out most of the time. > > >-- Mike B. > >'04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) > >Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes >is better. Bob Meyer, STOC # 1157 '92 ST1100, Candy Glory Red '02 ST1100 A, Candy Wineberry Red '02 919, Asphalt "Attack Life. It's going to kill you anyway." From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 00:32:57 2004 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Bob Meyer , Mike Bartman , Kelly Norton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: Julian Halton Subject: Re: Exponential Dumb Assedness Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 00:35:04 -0400 I think the official MSF stance is the middle of the lane is the best place that offers the most visibility. However my "Coach" offered his advice as stay to the right hand side in the left lane. He said the middle of the lane can have oil spills and debry and the riding in the tire tracks left by cars offers probably the clearest part of the lane since cars are constantly rolling over that portion of the lane knocking debry out of that path. Hope that made sense :) Rob On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 22:52:42 -0400, Bob Meyer wrote > Gee, I agree with Bartman on something! > > This wasn't mentioned "officially" in the ERC I just took. But one > of the instructors did say the when driving on a multi lane road he > tends to ride to the right side of the left lane or, if he needs to > be in the right lane, to the left side of that lane. > > Bob Meyer > Got to keep my quotaed test mail stats down :) Rob -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 01:32:20 2004 From: Daniel To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: need help gsxr Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 01:31:26 -0400 I'm working on a 2000 gsxr 600. turn key on, dash lights up, guages work, headlight comes on, tail light comes on. press engine kill switch to run, gear to nuetral, clutch pulled in, kickstand up press starter button.. nothing. No clicks, light bright, no light dimming. check ignition fuse - good check master fuse even tho i know it's good, it's good. cut and strip clutch safety wires... ( hate that anyway) open circuit = no change closed circuit = no change proceed to kickstand safety switch.. same results no change, circuit open or closed. Now parts swapping time.. I have my friends wrecked 97 gsxr 600. swap out the brain box, no haps.. swap out the ignition switch, no haps, swapped out the guages+related wiring harness, no change. put a booster on the battery, and also jumpered over the starter solenoid.. it turns starter + motor fast, but wont' start. I even swapped out the gas tank and fuel pump on the whim that the fuel pump circuit might have somethign to do with it.. still nothing.. What am I missing? -Danny From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 02:02:03 2004 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 02:01:41 -0400 From: Brian Roach To: Daniel CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: need help gsxr Daniel wrote: > What am I missing? Check the tip-over switch? - Roach -- http://www.speedwerks.com The one-stop shop for all your motorcycling needs! (302) 672 - 7223 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 02:50:00 2004 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 02:51:21 -0400 To: "Rob Sharp" , Bob Meyer , Kelly Norton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Exponential Dumb Assedness Cc: Julian Halton At 12:35 AM 6/10/04 -0400, Rob Sharp wrote: >However my "Coach" offered his advice as stay to the right hand side in the >left lane. He said the middle of the lane can have oil spills and debry and >the riding in the tire tracks left by cars offers probably the clearest part >of the lane since cars are constantly rolling over that portion of the lane >knocking debry out of that path. Hope that made sense :) The oil streak down the middle is most problematic when the road is wet...unless it's really bad (like at toll booths), in which case I try to stay out of it no matter what. Another reason to ride in the car tire tracks is that at bridges and other places where the road surface changes there are often big lumps (maybe from thermal expansion of the road surface?), and these have usually been hammered down by traffic in the car tracks, but are much taller elsewhere. I-370 in Gaithersburg has them at every overpass going east... -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 02:54:57 2004 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 02:57:48 -0400 To: Daniel , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: need help gsxr At 01:31 AM 6/10/04 -0400, Daniel wrote: >What am I missing? Starter relay? Power from the battery to the starter and ignition doesn't usually go through the switches on the handlebars...wires would be too thick to run conveniently, and you don't really want that many amps running up where you might touch them. The start/run/ignition switches usually activate a relay that controls the heavy power connection. If that has gone bad, you won't get power to the starter...the fact that yours spun when you jumpered directly to it tends to indicate to me that it might be that relay. If it is, sometimes a good whack will free up a stuck relay...once or twice anyway. Note: I am not a trained mechanic. If any who are say the above is bunk, listen to them, not me. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 06:33:28 2004 From: Daniel To: Daniel Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: need help gsxr update Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 06:32:34 -0400 thanks Brian and Mike, oh and i just swapped out the handle bar right hand control, still no to change in symptom. 2 questions 1. does the 00 gsxr 600 have a tipover switch? (and if so where) I think the 01's were right behind the driver seat.. but what about the old style srads? 2. where is the starter button relay located? if it's the one next to the fuse box, it's been swapped out.. hmm wait maybe it wasnt' pushed in when it was swapped out.... OUT TO THE BAT CAVE! thanks! - danny On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 01:31:26 -0400, Daniel wrote: > I'm working on a 2000 gsxr 600. > >turn key on, dash lights up, guages work, headlight comes on, >tail light comes on. > >press engine kill switch to run, gear to nuetral, clutch pulled in, >kickstand up > >press starter button.. nothing. No clicks, light bright, no light >dimming. > >check ignition fuse - good >check master fuse even tho i know it's good, it's good. > >cut and strip clutch safety wires... ( hate that anyway) >open circuit = no change >closed circuit = no change > >proceed to kickstand safety switch.. same results >no change, circuit open or closed. > >Now parts swapping time.. I have my friends wrecked 97 gsxr 600. >swap out the brain box, no haps.. swap out the ignition switch, no >haps, swapped out the guages+related wiring harness, no change. > >put a booster on the battery, and also jumpered over the starter >solenoid.. it turns starter + motor fast, but wont' start. > >I even swapped out the gas tank and fuel pump on the whim that the >fuel pump circuit might have somethign to do with it.. still nothing.. > >What am I missing? > >-Danny From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 06:36:08 2004 From: Daniel To: Daniel Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: need help gsxr Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 06:35:14 -0400 woops sorry about the excess quoting.. forgot about the digest moders. just remembered one more question about these older srad's.. anyone remember if the kickstand & clutch switch circuits should be open or closed? ( don't want to find out that i created another problem lol) right now they are closed From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 08:07:14 2004 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 08:07:05 -0400 From: Skip Smith CC: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Some opinions please... Gwen Dade wrote: > > I apologize in advance for any fighting that might be caused by the > help I'm requesting. fighting? here? surely you jest. > I'm looking at buying my first bike, have decided that a 250 would get > boring right away, so have narrowed it down to three choices (Honda > Shadow is not even an option--the center of gravity on that bike makes > it impossible for me to move it). > > 1. Suzuki Savage 650 > 2. Yamaha VStar Custom > 3. Kawasaki Vulcan 500 LTD > the savage will beat you to death on the highway from what a cow-orker and current savage owner tells me. my personal recommendation is one you've not listed... Suzuki GS550/GS500 durable, capable, fun enough to not piss you off, fast enough to scare you and keep you honest. :~) YMMV, PDoaCC --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 08:09:38 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 08:09:24 EDT Subject: Re: Reserve tank To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/9/2004 2:15:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, es87m@XXXXXX writes: > had > added 'gas treatment' last month) but you know what Assumptions > make... I'll check those things again - add more gas treatment Gas treatment??? What gas treatment? You do _not_ need any fuel treatment for a bike in daily use. You are at best wasting your money, or at worst creating the problem you site. > spray > some brake cleaner around the carb/body interface If your various rubber parts are not shot now spraying brake cleaner on them should do it. Use WD-40, it will do the same thing with less chance of damaging rubber (or paint.) John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC 1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European 1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles 1976, Honda CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 08:18:34 2004 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 08:18:17 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Exponential Dumb Assedness To: Mike Bartman Cc: Rob Sharp , Bob Meyer , Kelly Norton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX, Julian Halton Rob Sharp wrote: >>However my "Coach" offered his advice as stay to the right >>hand side in the left lane. He said the middle of the lane >>can have oil spills and debry and the riding in the tire >>tracks left by cars offers probably the clearest part >>of the lane since cars are constantly rolling over that >>portion of the lane knocking debry out of that path. Hope >>that made sense :) > >The oil streak down the middle is most problematic when the >road is wet...unless it's really bad (like at toll booths), >in which case I try to stay out of it no matter what. [Dave] I really was going to stay out of this, as I'm sure there are riders here with equally, and better sage advice than I have, but to be honest, I don't think I've ever done a reply-all with this many recipients... But I digress... The "oil" slick in the middle of the lane is problematic when it first starts raining until the rain has had sufficient time to wash away the top layer of ...stuff? After that, you have just as much rain traction there as in other portions of the lane. Don't believe me? Go out and practice your braking in the rain and report back. Ok, I haven't done it _THIS_YEAR yet, but I routinely do it (because my MSF BRC instructor said it was a good idea). Unless God has altered some element in the equation, you should be able to effect a stop just as efficiently in the center or either side of a lane. >Another reason to ride in the car tire tracks is that at >bridges and other places where the road surface changes >there are often big lumps (maybe from >thermal expansion of the road surface?), and these have >usually been hammered down by traffic in the car tracks, but >are much taller elsewhere. I-370 in Gaithersburg has them >at every overpass going east... [Dave] My observation has been that the metal expansion joints don't get beat down so easily as the pavement, creating a bone jarring impact when you hit them in the 'car tracks' - a la Woody Wilson bridge. You're dead on about the pavement though. What is it with the road crews around here? The beltway is littered with these 'pavement ripples'... 210 used to take the cake on that though, there were 3 or 4 that would launch you out of the bike seat at speed, but in recent years they've begun to mow them down... > > >-- Mike B. > >'04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) > >Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes >is better. > Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 08:21:18 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 08:21:09 EDT Subject: Re: Exponential Dumb Assedness To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/9/2004 4:14:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, omni@XXXXXX writes: > I don't know what the MSF course has to say about this question...but I'd > love to hear it. No _correct_ position, position yourself for visibility (to see AND be seen) and to create as "space cushion" around yourself to give yourself time to react to morons. (OK MSF does not use the word moron.) You should be free and willing to move within your lane to make yourself seen, it is a dynamic process. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 08:23:01 2004 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 08:22:58 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: need help gsxr To: Daniel Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > I'm working on a 2000 gsxr 600. > >turn key on, dash lights up, guages work, headlight comes on, >tail light comes on. >What am I missing? [Dave] 2 things. 1: You said you "jumped the battery" and solenoid - have you actually tried a good battery? 2: Is it trying to start at all? If it's sat for a while, anything but a new battery is iffy at best to bring it out of it's slumber. If it is trying to 'catch' and start, do you smell gas, and if so how prominent? If not, do you still smell gas? Not starting, smelling lots of gas - could be fouled plugs caused by carbs needing overhaul. short fix - new plugs. long term - pull carbs, rehab, reassemble after installing new plugs anyway. Just off the top. Good luck. Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 08:44:43 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 08:44:30 EDT Subject: Re: Exponential Dumb Assedness To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/9/2004 6:10:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, j_picton@XXXXXX writes: > Guy stopped and said he was sorry - He > said it just didn't register that I was there... Looking at and seeing are two _very_ different things. And there are _just_ enough homicidal maniacs out there that we must assume deliberate intention to harm. If you ride long enough you _will_ have to deal with someone deliberately trying to harm or even kill you. NEVER assume that a cage driver will act sanely, he/she may very well not be sane, it may be due to just plain old mental illness or drugs/alcohol. And then they just say "I did not see him," works every time..... John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC 1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European 1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles 1976, Honda CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 08:51:36 2004 From: Stephen Miller Subject: Re: need help gsxr Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 08:51:42 -0400 To: DC-Cycles CDI is another possibility, I think it was a problem on older Gixxers -- no idea about a 2k model, though. Does it bump start? On Jun 10, 2004, at 8:22 AM, Dave Yates wrote: >> >> I'm working on a 2000 gsxr 600. >> >> turn key on, dash lights up, guages work, headlight comes on, >> tail light comes on. > >> What am I missing? > > [Dave] 2 things. 1: You said you "jumped the battery" and > solenoid - have you actually tried a good battery? > 2: Is it trying to start at all? If it's sat for a while, > anything but a new battery is iffy at best to bring it out of > it's slumber. If it is trying to 'catch' and start, do you > smell gas, and if so how prominent? If not, do you still > smell gas? Not starting, smelling lots of gas - could be > fouled plugs caused by carbs needing overhaul. short fix - > new plugs. long term - pull carbs, rehab, reassemble after > installing new plugs anyway. > > Just off the top. Good luck. > Dave Yates > > http://cornersolution.com The only blog you need to read. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 08:51:41 2004 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 08:51:47 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Erick Singley Subject: RE: Exponential Dumb Assedness I'll see your 'they heard your horn' and raise you one. Even in a car, I've laid on the horn for 15 seconds while having to do a hard brake to avoid people merging into me. Do they stop merging? No. They hardly even look around. Sometimes they are even 'kind' enough to signal saying that I should move the heck out of their way. When *I* hear a horn I *stop* whatever maneuver I'm doing and look around a lot. Just seems to be common sense. I know it's just a commercial but I cringed at the ad for a car where a guy seemed to be screaming/singing in his car in silence. His friend opens the car door and 'Mr Roboto' is then heard really loud. I thought to myself. "I don't *want* a car where I can't hear a horn or a siren going on outside the car." I'll bet in real life, lots of folk have their radio turned up in their muffled interior cars and just miss horns (since they don't look. I'll admit after the MSF class I do a serious head turn while in a driving a car more than I did before.) Of course no one pays attention to my wimpy Honda CB-750 horn.... Erick At 6:10 PM -0400 6/9/04, Jason Picton wrote: >It actually might not have been intentional... I got run off the road on rt >32 in MD .. An older guy and I made eye contact and he kept moving over - >even after I blew my horn.... Nothing bad happend - I pulled off onto the >shoulder - It was scary moment... Guy stopped and said he was sorry - He >said it just didn't register that I was there... Some folks just don't see >motorcycles... My folks never realized how many of us were out on the roads >till I started riding... > >Not everyone is an ass on the road... but in Dc.. I will give you the >benefit of the doubt > >Jason > >-----Original Message----- >From: Julian Halton [mailto:julian@XXXXXX] >Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 2:03 PM >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Exponential Dumb Assedness > > > >Beautiful day take a drive down to DC to have lunch at Finemundos on F >and 14th. On my way back down Constitution, I am in the far right lane >heading towards 66 West. This van to my left is keeping pace with me >and the passenger is looking over. Sure enough they accelerate and then >swerve into my lane without signaling to make a right turn onto 23rd or >24th. I anticipated this nonsense and reduced my speed. What I did not >anticipate was this ^&*$%% slamming on the brakes. Front bake >squeeze..rear brake applied to the point of slip sliding away. I come >to a stop inches in front of the guy. He makes a right and I move >forward. > >At this point I am having a Soprano moment and can't believe that this >miserable excuse for a cretin saw me , swerved into my lane and slammed >on the brakes. I circled around the next right before 66 but the next >right was blocked off so I took this as a sign and moto'ed back to the >safe haven of VA. My hands are shaking as I type this. I KNOW the guy >saw me and this was his idea of fun. > >Lesson learned...When I apply the dumb ass principle to every moving >object around me...ie..what is the most dumb ass thing this individual >can do...in DC it is not sufficient. Like chess you have to think a few >moves in advance. I was very close to being in a wreck. > >Severely Unimpressed and dreaming of making this individual gargle with >DRANO. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 08:58:29 2004 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 08:58:25 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Exponential Dumb Assedness To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX John comments: >> Guy stopped and said he was sorry - He >> said it just didn't register that I was there... > >Looking at and seeing are two _very_ different things. > >And there are _just_ enough homicidal maniacs out there that >we must assume deliberate intention to harm. If you ride >long enough you _will_ have to deal with someone >deliberately trying to harm or even kill you. NEVER assume >that a cage driver will act sanely, he/she may very well not >be sane, it may be due to just plain old mental illness or >drugs/alcohol. And then they just say "I did not see him," >works every time..... [Dave] So, when you're lying on the ground, writhing in pain, moto in pieces, and the driver comes over to you protesting that you just didn't register, your state of shock should be sufficient legal justification for not registering that you are choking the very last breath out of the sub- human walking pile of bovine fecal matter... Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 09:03:28 2004 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 09:03:34 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Erick Singley Subject: Re: Reserve tank >In a message dated 6/9/2004 2:15:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, es87m@XXXXXX >writes: > > > had added 'gas treatment' last month) but you know what Assumptions > > make... I'll check those things again - add more gas treatment > >Gas treatment??? What gas treatment? >You do _not_ need any fuel treatment for a bike in daily use. You are at best >wasting your money, or at worst creating the problem you site. Well, that's the rub :) Until I had my oil-pan crack welded shut it wasn't in daily use. Since I wasn't the one doing the welding, I could only sigh and wait. I only put in a half bottle of the stuff - though since I put stabilizer in for the winter it probably didn't need it anyway. I was hoping that the stuff might melt gunk on that mesh bag that could be slowing the fuel rate down (or did I replace that already last year?... I'll know this weekend...) > > spray some brake cleaner around the carb/body interface > >If your various rubber parts are not shot now spraying brake cleaner on them >should do it. Use WD-40, it will do the same thing with less chance of >damaging rubber (or paint.) That could be true, too. Maybe since I've had advice to make sure all the carb bowls are clean of debris I should just replace the rings while I'm there. They can't be that expensive. I was probably wrong about the mileage I'm getting (200 miles on 3.5 gallons when I filled it up last evening? naaaa) I must have added some along the way and forgot.... If I'm getting 40 I'll be happy. But - it was odd this morning. 25 miles into the ride to work, I started getting that same engine power loss. Once I flipped it into reserve - it ran smoothly. I can see I'll be taking apart that tank this weekend.... Thanks! Erick From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 09:21:03 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 09:20:45 EDT Subject: Re: Exponential Dumb Assedness To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/10/2004 8:58:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Dave@XXXXXX writes: > your state of shock > should be sufficient legal justification for not registering > that you are choking the very last breath out of the sub- > human walking pile of bovine fecal matter... Yes. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 09:25:23 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 09:25:05 EDT Subject: Re: Reserve tank To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/10/2004 9:03:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time, es87m@XXXXXX writes: > I only put in a half bottle of the stuff - > though since I put stabilizer in for the winter it probably didn't > need it anyway. Over use of stabilizer _will_ fuck things up. Use the proper amount for _your_ fuel tank volume, no more, perhaps less. Or better yet ride the thing. And anything except stabilizer for winter long storage is a waste at best. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC 1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European 1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles 1976, Honda CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 09:46:19 2004 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 09:45:34 -0400 (EDT) From: dan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Trunk Monkey I wonder if they will ever get around to a bike version? http://www.trunkmonkeyad.com/Suburban-TrunkMonkey.swf From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 10:04:10 2004 From: purdyjeremy@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, SweetP715@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 14:03:48 +0000 X-Authenticated-Sender: cHVyZHlqZXJlbXlAYXR0Lm5ldA== >I'm looking at buying my first bike, have decided that a 250 would get >boring right away, so have narrowed it down to three choices (Honda >Shadow is not even an option--the center of gravity on that bike makes >it impossible for me to move it). > >Suzuki Savage 650 >Yamaha VStar Custom >Kawasaki Vulcan 500 LTD Gwen- You are right about a 250 cruiser getting boring very quickly. I made that mistake with my first bike. None of the three bikes you mentioned should require much in the line of maintenance. If ease of maintenance is something that is very important to you, the two things to really look for are shaft drive and hydraulic valves. Of the three you mention, I believe the V-Star is the only one with a shaft, but does not have hydraulic valves, which means you need get the valves adjusted every so often. I believe that Kawasaki makes a Vulcan 750 which has a shaft AND hydraulic valves and is not that much more powerful than the three machines you listed, so you might want to think about that model. I have ridden a V-Star 650 Classic for the last three years, including two-up long distance travel, and find it to be adequate for any of my needs. I have never dropped this bike, so I couldn't attest to how easy it would be to pick it up. Hope the search goes well. -- Jeremy Purdy '00 Yamaha V-Star From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 10:21:37 2004 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 07:21:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: 211? Who cares about 211? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX If you are going to head down in that area. I highly recommend VA 80 (exit 24 off I-81). Its twisty right off the Interstate and is nice all the way into KY. Glenn --- Bob Meyer wrote: > >If you prefer something twistier, yesterday I > enjoyed Rt. 16 twixt Sophia WV > >and Tazwell VA. The northern part of Route 16 is > fun too. > >Sunday included Route 160 twixt VA & KY (A good > rival for the Dragon.), > >Route70 twixt TN and VA, and a lotta Rt. 83 in VA. > > > Been meaning to try some of these local (sort of) > roads. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 10:41:05 2004 From: "customtankbags" To: "Dc-Cycles" Cc: Subject: RE: Some opinions please... Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 10:41:02 -0400 Let me chime in here... The ability to lift a bike that has fallen over is highly overrated, IMHO. In the past 10 years that I have been riding, I have fallen over innumerable times. Most of those falls have been at a stop and most of the time I have been riding alone. At every instance (save one), people have rushed over to right my bike, even without knowing I was female. That one instance I was alone in a park and had to wait for someone to show up. It didn't take long. Yes, it would be nice to be fully independent, but it's really not necessary. There are techniques that can be used by smaller folks to right a bike alone, but they are dependent on the type of bike and the terrain. It is relatively easy to right a BMW airhead on level or nearly level ground as they balance on the cylinder heads and don't fall completely over. My oilhead has the same cylinder heads, but is much heavier. Bikes with engine guards have similar properties. Bikes like my Honda fall over flat and are a bear to get up on anything other than flat ground. The only bike I have that I can right alone, is my KLR250. Even that can be tricky if you're standing in mud. As to maintenance, there are manuals out there that allow even the most rank beginner to do basic work. There are lots of folks on this list who would be willing to help if you show a little interest in learning. Don't let that stop you. Lastly, on your choice of first bike: I say get a dual sport bike and ride the hell out of it. They are light, forgiving and dirt isn't nearly as hard to fall on as pavement. You'll learn all sorts of useful techniques, like sliding, avoiding obstacles, jumping stumps (not really) and have fun. You might like it enough to keep the bike and get another for street riding. Good Luck LindaT. http://www.customtankbags.com Now - TankBags for 1800 Wings Hollywood, FL AMA IBA HSTA BMWBMW 99 R1100RT Mr. Buzzy 95 F3 Purple Haze 00 KLR250 Super Sherpa Tenzing On Tue, 8 Jun 2004, Gwen Dade wrote: > I apologize in advance for any fighting that might be caused by the help I'm > requesting. > > I'm looking at buying my first bike, have decided that a 250 would get boring right > away, so have narrowed it down to three choices (Honda Shadow is not even an > option--the center of gravity on that bike makes it impossible for me to move it). > > 1. Suzuki Savage 650 > 2. Yamaha VStar Custom > 3. Kawasaki Vulcan 500 LTD > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 10:57:00 2004 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 10:51:38 -0400 To: Dave Yates From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Exponential Dumb Assedness Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 08:18 AM 6/10/04 -0400, Dave Yates wrote: > >The "oil" slick in the middle of the lane is problematic when >it first starts raining until the rain has had sufficient >time to wash away the top layer of ...stuff? True, it's worst at first. It will also depend how heavy the deposits are. Most places they are light to non-existent, but on older heavily traveled roads, particularly near intersections where leaky vehicles sit and drip for a while, it can be heavy enough to lower traction some even after a good downpour. It can also be problematic on a newly paved road at the first rain all over the road...my dad spun that '67 VW beetle I later owned in South Carolina once due to that (freshly paved road, just starting to light drizzle, too fast into a curve...whoops!). >>usually been hammered down by traffic in the car tracks, but >>are much taller elsewhere. > >[Dave] My observation has been that the metal expansion >joints don't get beat down so easily as the pavement, >creating a bone jarring impact when you hit them in the 'car >tracks' - a la Woody Wilson bridge. True too. It's really ugly when both problems occur at the same place...only the transition between the hump and the dip is fairly level, and that's tricky to hit. ;-) >used to take the cake on that though, there were 3 or 4 that >would launch you out of the bike seat at speed, but in recent >years they've begun to mow them down... Speaking of road hazards, there's a doozie of a pothole right over the railroad tracks near Rt 4 on 301N. It's half the lane wide at least, a couple of feet across and 4-6" deep. I was riding in the right track and had to use the shoulder to go around it. Luckily our Road Captain had been that way recently and warned everyone in the group about it ahead of time. Said someone hit it a couple of days before and got partially airborne (bike too). Hope they fix it before someone gets killed... -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 11:09:49 2004 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 08:09:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Laminar Lip? X-Virus-Checked: Checked Well, I've got the windscreen of my DL650 in the upper position, and I'm still experiencing some head buffeting. Does anyone have any experience with Laminar Lips? (http://www.laminarlip.com/) They make both a standard and a "sport-touring" lip for the DL650; the sport-touring lip looks like it's larger overall. Any comments on which of these I should go for, if either? Fish. also need a pit bull stand, and a new helmet, and and and From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 11:14:46 2004 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 11:14:40 -0400 From: Aaron Maurer To: Fish Flowers Subject: Re: Laminar Lip? Cc: DC-Cycles Came up recently on my favorite forum . . . http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33302&highlight=laminar+lip Some people think it helps, some people think it doesn't hurt, everyone thinks it's ugly. On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 08:09:42 -0700 (PDT), Fish Flowers wrote: > > Well, I've got the windscreen of my DL650 in the upper position, and I'm > still experiencing some head buffeting. Does anyone have any experience > with Laminar Lips? (http://www.laminarlip.com/) They make both a standard > and a "sport-touring" lip for the DL650; the sport-touring lip looks like > it's larger overall. Any comments on which of these I should go for, if > either? > > Fish. > also need a pit bull stand, and a new helmet, and and and > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 11:16:00 2004 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 11:15:57 -0400 From: Aaron Maurer To: Fish Flowers Subject: Re: Laminar Lip? Cc: DC-Cycles One more: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23985&highlight=laminar+lip On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 11:14:40 -0400, Aaron Maurer wrote: > > Came up recently on my favorite forum . . . > > http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33302&highlight=laminar+lip > > Some people think it helps, some people think it doesn't hurt, > everyone thinks it's ugly. > > > > > On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 08:09:42 -0700 (PDT), Fish Flowers > wrote: > > > > Well, I've got the windscreen of my DL650 in the upper position, and I'm > > still experiencing some head buffeting. Does anyone have any experience > > with Laminar Lips? (http://www.laminarlip.com/) They make both a standard > > and a "sport-touring" lip for the DL650; the sport-touring lip looks like > > it's larger overall. Any comments on which of these I should go for, if > > either? > > > > Fish. > > also need a pit bull stand, and a new helmet, and and and > > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 11:25:39 2004 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 11:24:31 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: exupbrotherhood@XXXXXX, AFRA@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Rant about the Reagan fanatics (Cross Posted) X-AOL-IP: 65.86.98.162 X-AOL-Language: english OK folks, this message is in no way intended to show disrespect for President Reagan. He was actually one of my favorite President's. This is a rant about the Reagan fanatics. OK, I know the man did a lot for this country and the world but, do we have to rename and/or change everything in this country to include his likeness or name on it? And, can't we at least wait until the man is in his final resting place and his family has had time to grieve before we start pushing it. I mean, seriously, the day he died there were petitions out there to have him put on the $10 bill and the U.S. Dime. They are even trying to have his likeness placed on Mount Rushmore. So, let's boot Hamilton from the $10 bill and dynamite Washington or Lincoln from Rushmore. Geessshhhhh. Another example, I heard on the news today that they've introduced legislation to rename the Pentagon to "The Ronald Reagan Center for National Defense" or something like that. What's next, Reaganton, DC? Come on people, I have no problem with building something new in his honor but, can't we just leave the things alone that are already in existence that honor other peoples deeds? Does one persons deeds really demand that we disregard the deeds and accomplishments of others by renaming/changing them? Do we really need to have 5 million things named after him or have his likeness on them? What happens down the road whenever we have another great president die and all those fanatics now try to have the "Reagan House" (formerly known as the White House) renamed after her? If we keep renaming and adding onto stuff, pretty soon no one will remember why they were created in the first place and who they were originally honoring. I hated the idea when they renamed Washington National Airport to Ronald Reagan National Airport. To me, that was a slap in the face to one of our nations founding fathers. Granted, the Pentagon is just called the Pentagon because of it's shape but, if we're going to rename it, I think it should be renamed in tribute to the people who lost their lives there during 9/11. Not after a former President just so they could name one more thing after him. OK, I think that about covers it. I know there are Reagan fans out the who won't agree with me but, I just had to get it off my chest. Afterall, this is just my opinion and others are welcome to theirs. Flame on if you must. Scooter From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 11:32:58 2004 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 11:33:08 -0400 To: "DC Cycles" From: Troutman Subject: Re: Rant about the Reagan fanatics (Cross Posted) At 11:24 AM 6/10/2004, ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: >OK, I think that about covers it. I know there are Reagan fans out the >who won't agree with me but, I just had to get it off my chest. Afterall, >this is just my opinion and others are welcome to theirs. Flame on if you >must. I'm adding this one to my filters now. Totally unrelated to moto - unless you had discussed traffic this week. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles. One who does not know the enemy but knows himself will sometimes win, sometimes lose. One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself will be in danger in every battle. - Sun Tzu From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 11:55:01 2004 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 11:54:51 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Rant about the Reagan fanatics (Cross Posted) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >OK folks, this message is in no way intended to show disrespect for President Reagan. He was actually one of my favorite President's. This is a rant about the Reagan fanatics. [Dave] We were warned! > > > ...seriously, the day he died there were petitions out there to have him put on the $10 bill and the U.S. Dime. They are even trying to have his likeness placed on Mount Rushmore. So, let's boot Hamilton from the $10 bill and dynamite Washington or Lincoln from Rushmore. Geessshhhhh. [Dave] Agreed. Too much press, too much political backslapping etc. going on here. > >Another example, I heard on the news today that they've introduced legislation to rename the Pentagon to "The Ronald Reagan Center for National Defense" or something like that. [Dave] Yeah, I heard. What a stupid idea. Instead, I wrote my legislators to rename all 5 sided objects from Pentagons, to Reagangons... What's next, Reaganton, DC? > >Come on people, I have no problem with building something new in his honor but, can't we just leave the things alone that are already in existence that honor other peoples deeds? Does one persons deeds really demand that we disregard the deeds and accomplishments of others by renaming/changing them? [Dave] But, we already have modern day precedent for it - MLK birthday took the place of what used to be Washington's and Lincoln's respective birthdays to get us the current "President's day"... Somehow, to me, honoring the likes of Clinton and Nixon on the same day as Washington, Eisenhower, Lincoln etc... just doesn't sit well with me. That is not to say Dr. King is not deserving of a holiday or other mention one way or the other. But, what are you going to do? According to the government, it'll cost us bazillions to create a new fed holiday, so something or someone has to be displaced. I say make it money, since the economic policy was dubbed "reaganomics", why not currency? Do we really need to have 5 million things named after him or have his likeness on them? [Dave] No. > >What happens down the road whenever we have another great president die and all those fanatics now try to have the "Reagan House" (formerly known as the White House) renamed after her? [Dave] We can put a stop to this by simply having corporate sponsorship for these things. For example, the "Dutch Boy Paints White House", "Office Depot Pentagon", "Preparation H House of Representatives" and "Maalox US Senate". This can be carried through other aspects of Government too, I'm partial to Budweiser sponsoring our bombers. It would warm my heart to see a fleet of "Bud-bombers"... B-52's with the slogan "For all you did, this bomb's for you!" Or, perhaps the US Postal Service "We deliver for you!" > >If we keep renaming and adding onto stuff, pretty soon no one will remember why they were created in the first place and who they were originally honoring. > >I hated the idea when they renamed Washington National Airport to Ronald Reagan National Airport. To me, that was a slap in the face to one of our nations founding fathers. [Dave] Yeah, next they'll grab the GW pkway, change to RR pkway... But you're actually thinking that the House and Senate actually _care_ about anything the founders had to say. That's why you're disappointed. Once you realize that they don't, this type of behavior won't surprise you. > >Granted, the Pentagon is just called the Pentagon because of it's shape but, if we're going to rename it, I think it should be renamed in tribute to the people who lost their lives there during 9/11. Not after a former President just so they could name one more thing after him. > > > >OK, I think that about covers it. I know there are Reagan fans out the who won't agree with me but, I just had to get it off my chest. Afterall, this is just my opinion and others are welcome to theirs. Flame on if you must. [Dave] It was a good rant ... Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 12:05:23 2004 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 12:05:07 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: Dave@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Rant about the Reagan fanatics (Cross Posted) X-AOL-IP: 65.86.98.162 X-AOL-Language: english Thank you Dave. At least someone got it. For all those who have already or might be thinking about responding to me about how Off Topic or Non-Moto related this might be, my apologies. I just needed to vent my frustration over all of this and thought I could do so to the people I considered my friends. With all the little tyrades and other seemingly OT content stuff on the list lately, I thought a change of pace might be helpful. Apparently I was wrong. I also apologize for not putting the obligatory OT or Non-Moto in the subject line. Soemthing that I will remedy with this response. Scooter In a message dated 6/10/2004 11:54:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Dave@XXXXXX writes: > > >OK, I think that about covers it. I know there are Reagan > fans out the who won't agree with me but, I just had to get > it off my chest. Afterall, this is just my opinion and > others are welcome to theirs. Flame on if you must. > > [Dave] It was a good rant ... > Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 12:08:46 2004 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 09:08:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Re: Rant about the Reagan fanatics (Cross Posted) To: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX, Dave@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX We all know what I think about this....so I won't bore you. But...it does seem the depth of support for Reagan is deeper than those of other leaders, from the left OR right. I wonder why? My theory is that today's Rep. leadership all grew up (politically) under him and thus revere him like a demi-god. Some woman on the news was praising his leadership skills and the great quality of his movies. The former is debatable, the latter is utter rubbish! --- ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: > Thank you Dave. At least someone got it. For all > those who have already or might be thinking about > responding to me about how Off Topic or Non-Moto > related this might be, my apologies. I just needed > to vent my frustration over all of this and thought > I could do so to the people I considered my friends. > With all the little tyrades and other seemingly OT > content stuff on the list lately, I thought a change > of pace might be helpful. Apparently I was wrong. > I also apologize for not putting the obligatory OT > or Non-Moto in the subject line. Soemthing that I > will remedy with this response. > > Scooter > > In a message dated 6/10/2004 11:54:51 AM Eastern > Daylight Time, Dave@XXXXXX writes: > > > > > > > >OK, I think that about covers it. I know there > are Reagan > > fans out the who won't agree with me but, I just > had to get > > it off my chest. Afterall, this is just my > opinion and > > others are welcome to theirs. Flame on if you > must. > > > > [Dave] It was a good rant ... > > Dave Yates > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 12:12:27 2004 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 12:12:16 -0400 From: Brian Roach To: Daniel CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: need help gsxr update Daniel wrote: > 2 questions > > 1. does the 00 gsxr 600 have a tipover switch? (and if so where) I > think the 01's were right behind the driver seat.. but what about the > old style srads? Arg ... you know, you're right. They changed it in '01. I was thinking the 600 changed in '00 for some reason, and I didn't look it up before replying. I hate electrical gremlins :) Since the starter works when you put power to it, did you try replacing/jumping the existing battery to see if that was the issue? Also, you might want to pull a plug and ground it to the frame while putting power to the starter - see if you're getting spark at all. - Roach -- http://www.speedwerks.com The one-stop shop for all your motorcycling needs! (302) 672 - 7223 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 12:15:39 2004 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: (STFU) Rant about the Reagan fanatics (Cross Posted) Content-ID: <14469.1086884138.1@XXXXXX> Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 12:15:38 -0400 From: harry@XXXXXX I'm forced to invoke executive privilege and send out a STFU alert ("shut the fuck up") on this thread. It should never have been posted here, responses are equally unwelcome, and everybody involved should know better. This isn't a miscellaneous political rant list. There are a million appropriate forums for that out there (each one more tedious and pointless than the last), they're not hard to find. -harry From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 12:22:39 2004 From: Daniel To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: gsxr solved Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 12:21:32 -0400 a wire behind the fuse box was broken From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 12:30:31 2004 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 12:30:21 -0400 From: Brian Roach To: Daniel CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: gsxr solved Daniel wrote: > a wire behind the fuse box was broken ::Doh!:: Glad you found the bugger. - Roach -- http://www.speedwerks.com The one-stop shop for all your motorcycling needs! (302) 672 - 7223 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 12:38:16 2004 From: "W.S." To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Ron's unintended legacy Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 12:37:56 -0400 My condolences to the Reagan family. And a couple of current urban observations: Erratic driving seems to have ballooned, possibly because of a feeling of universal rules suspension as the ceremony commandeers DC streets. Also, seems the parking enforcers are nitpicking (plenty visitors). I just got hit ($20) in circumstances for which even a terrorist would have had compassion. Bill S. / DC '99 VN750 > At a sign for 5 minutes. Ouch. Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 12:41:38 2004 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 12:41:07 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Re: Rant about the Reagan fanatics (Cross Posted) To: Mark Kitchell Cc: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX, Dave@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX >We all know what I think about this....so I won't bore >you. [Dave] Your day will come, but it will be some time. when the Clinton's pass many, many years from now, their state funerals will invoke similar fawning. > >But...it does seem the depth of support for Reagan is >deeper than those of other leaders, from the left OR >right. I wonder why? My theory is that today's Rep. >leadership all grew up (politically) under him and >thus revere him like a demi-god. [Dave] We always have a tendency to monday morning quarterback, and I guess we have the tendency as well to remember what we want. > >Some woman on the news was praising his leadership >skills and the great quality of his movies. The >former is debatable, the latter is utter rubbish! [Dave] see what I mean? Reagan, probably through his acting skill, had the ability to deliver lines and speeches, and was inspiring whether you were with him or not. In this aspect he was an astounding leader. He was also quite likable from all reports. He and Clinton possessed many of the same talents, albeit for different reasons, but very few of the same faults. They both could say exactly what the audience wanted to hear, they both could deliver their ideas well, and they could both excuse their faults with "Aw shucks" moments. Now, I haven't seen any of Reagan's movies, so won't comment on them, but he no doubt garnered political points via his past employment. Seriously though, the Dems need a guy with spunk - chutzpah in fact to reclaim the big prize. A guy with, well, cojones... Kerry's too wishy washy. I'm looking forward to Jim Moron's - err... Moran's campaing for president. Sure he's dirty, sure he's kinda lame, but he's unbeatable. At least if we got attacked we wouldn't have some namby pamby military response, Moran would've Nuked China for taking that spy plane, and anybody else who whined about it. Who knows what acts would've been visited upon Afghanistan... > > >--- ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: >> Thank you Dave. At least someone got it. For all >> those who have already or might be thinking about >> responding to me about how Off Topic or Non-Moto >> related this might be, my apologies. I just needed >> to vent my frustration over all of this and thought >> I could do so to the people I considered my friends. >> With all the little tyrades and other seemingly OT >> content stuff on the list lately, I thought a change >> of pace might be helpful. Apparently I was wrong. >> I also apologize for not putting the obligatory OT >> or Non-Moto in the subject line. Soemthing that I >> will remedy with this response. >> >> Scooter >> >> In a message dated 6/10/2004 11:54:51 AM Eastern >> Daylight Time, Dave@XXXXXX writes: >> >> >> >> > >> > >OK, I think that about covers it. I know there >> are Reagan >> > fans out the who won't agree with me but, I just >> had to get >> > it off my chest. Afterall, this is just my >> opinion and >> > others are welcome to theirs. Flame on if you >> must. >> > >> > [Dave] It was a good rant ... >> > Dave Yates >> > > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. >http://messenger.yahoo.com/ > Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 13:24:39 2004 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'DCCycles'" Cc: "'SweetP715@XXXXXX'" Subject: Some opinions please... Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 13:26:54 -0400 Gwen Decided: "I'm looking at buying my first bike, have decided that a 250 would get boring right away, so have narrowed it down to three choices Suzuki Savage 650 Yamaha VStar Custom Kawasaki Vulcan 500LTD I'm 5'6" and weigh 122lbs, so WHEN I slide it (as I'm sure I will), I also wanna be able to pick it up. [Carl]: First a hearty endorsement of Evil Carl's recommendations. and "You Go Girl" for the MSF Course. Do consider a used bike. Ride it for a year or so then sell it. You'll have a better idea of what you want to do on two wheels: cruiser, sports, touring, dirt, or . . . You can do a lot with a 250 (ask Leon). They're light and can help you build confidence while you get experience (also less likely to "slide" or do a parking lot drop. Big first bikes frequently become a last bike and . . . bargains for the rest of us :^> You seem to be leaning toward a cruiser. The mid 80's 750/700/500 Magnas work for a lot of folks who may be leg length challenged and they have a lot of support . But consider a standard. They offer a lot of versatility and may help you better decide what you really want after a year. The Suzuki GS 550 is one example of a rugged thrifty standard. Nighthawks, Secas, and Ninjas are others. FWIW, this 5'2'' woman started with a 500 something then went to a 700 Magna and now this: Mmmmm, Italian steeds. Oh, she is also a MSF instructor/coach. Olde Weird Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 13:32:45 2004 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: "'DCCycles'" CC: "'SweetP715@XXXXXX'" Subject: Re: Some opinions please... Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 13:32:38 -0400 > Gwen Decided: > "I'm looking at buying my first bike, Don't know why I didn't think of this until just now, but you should check out http://www.ridemyown.com/ . It's a site dedicated to women riding motorcycles. You may find lots of useful information there, including some bike reviews. Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" '02 919 I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it. Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" '02 919 I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 13:56:46 2004 Subject: (OT...) RE: Rant about the Reagan fanatics Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 13:56:36 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: -----Original Message----- From: Dave Yates [mailto:Dave@XXXXXX] Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 11:55 AM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Rant about the Reagan fanatics (Cross Posted) >I hated the idea when they renamed Washington National Airport to Ronald Reagan National Airport. To me, that was a slap in the face to one of our nations founding fathers. My personal favorite, renaming DC's airport for the president that fired all the air traffic controllers... Give it time, the furor will die down. Remember, legislators validate their jobs with their constituents by passing legislation; you can't seriously expect them to pass on the opportunity to propose or sponsor legislation to commemorate a dead C-in-C, can you? News of Reagan's death was probably received by the House and Senate like a live gazelle being released into a lion's cage. Even though Federal employees are being encouraged to use lenient leave policy, I suspect that every Congressional staffer is burning the midnight oil to draft items that will play well on C-SPAN. Robert From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 13:57:18 2004 X-OB-Received: from unknown (205.158.62.50) by wfilter.us4.outblaze.com; 10 Jun 2004 17:56:24 -0000 From: "David Blumgart" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 12:57:06 -0500 Subject: Some opinions please... I'm pretty sure Suz doesn't make the GS550 any more. As has been mentioned here recently, they do currently offer the GS500F, an air-cooled twin 'Standard' they've been making in one guise or another since '89. Decent bike, and universally recognized as the best 'beginner's bike' currently made. I just bought a 2001 500E and like it fine, or will if I can ever find a battery for it. The 500F has a fairing and goes for about 5 large, new. However, I'm almost regretting buying the 500E after I saw this on the 'Bay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=50005&item=2481223984&rd=1 That's a sweet looking 700cc 'Hawk, and looks like it's been lovingly cared for. Closes in about 11 hours. Check it out -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 14:01:30 2004 From: "Rob Keiser" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: need help gsxr update Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 13:50:20 -0400 I know, very well, that the '98 - '01 VFR's have what's affectionately know as a Universal Tip Indicator (the plastic cap under the headlight assembly)...but what is a tipover switch, and what does it do? Rob '98 VFR800 (now with a new UTI) ;) From: Brian Roach To: Daniel CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: need help gsxr update Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 12:12:16 -0400 Daniel wrote: >2 questions > >1. does the 00 gsxr 600 have a tipover switch? (and if so where) I >think the 01's were right behind the driver seat.. but what about the >old style srads? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 14:40:13 2004 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 14:43:09 -0400 To: "Rob Keiser" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: need help gsxr update At 01:50 PM 6/10/04 -0400, Rob Keiser wrote: >I know, very well, that the '98 - '01 VFR's have what's affectionately know >as a Universal Tip Indicator (the plastic cap under the headlight >assembly)...but what is a tipover switch, and what does it do? If it's anything like the one H-D uses, it's a tip indicator switch that kills the engine if the bike exceeds some limit (45 degrees for H-D), indicating that the bike has fallen. The H-D one also gets used in cancelling the turn signals automatically (they also get cancelled by distance too...annoying with really long left turn lanes...) and also as part of the security system (stand the bike up and the switch tells the security module the bike is being molested). -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 15:17:58 2004 X-OB-Received: from unknown (205.158.62.55) by wfilter.us4.outblaze.com; 10 Jun 2004 19:17:07 -0000 From: "David Blumgart" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 14:17:50 -0500 Subject: To good to be true? So I recently I bid $2,000 bid of this eBay auction of a 2000 SV650, not for moment thinking I'd win it, but rather to track the auction. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2480704699 So yesterday I get one of those eBay 'Second Chance' e-mails (the original bidder has crapped out, you wanna buy it?) saying the owner wants to sell it to me for two grand. I EM him back, saying are you serious? Two grand for a bike with 6,000 miles?. He just EM'd back, saying yes. And while greed is rearing its ugly little head, becuause I really, really like the small naked SV, and plan to get one once I get some riding miles under me, I keep remembering the old saying "if it sounds like a deal too good to be true, it is." (Variants include: "You don't always get what you pay for, but if you try to get more than what you paid for, you get what you deserve.") -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 15:24:21 2004 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 15:24:10 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: To good to be true? On Thu, 10 Jun 2004, David Blumgart wrote: > So I recently I bid $2,000 bid of this eBay auction of a 2000 SV650, not for moment thinking I'd win it, but rather to track the auction. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2480704699 > > So yesterday I get one of those eBay 'Second Chance' e-mails (the original bidder has crapped out, you wanna buy it?) saying the owner wants to sell it to me for two grand. I EM him back, saying are you serious? Two grand for a bike with 6,000 miles?. > > He just EM'd back, saying yes. So -- the auction says its in MD. Tell him you want to take a run up to look at things, before committing. What do you have to lose, other than the time to make a trip up to B'more. Maybe see if he'll send the VIN and, if so, see if your insurance people can check to see if the bike is stolen. -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 15:38:13 2004 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 15:37:58 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: mojohand@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: To good to be true? X-AOL-IP: 65.86.98.162 X-AOL-Language: english If it were me, I'd ask him if I could come check it out first and maybe take it for a test ride. If all checked out, hand him the money and ride home on a nice new bike. :-) Scooter (On Topic Post ;-)) In a message dated 6/10/2004 3:17:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mojohand@XXXXXX writes: > > > So I recently I bid $2,000 bid of this eBay auction of a 2000 SV650, not for moment thinking I'd win it, but rather to track the auction. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2480704699 > > So yesterday I get one of those eBay 'Second Chance' e-mails (the original bidder has crapped out, you wanna buy it?) saying the owner wants to sell it to me for two grand. I EM him back, saying are you serious? Two grand for a bike with 6,000 miles?. > > He just EM'd back, saying yes. And while greed is rearing its ugly little head, becuause I really, really like the small naked SV, and plan to get one once I get some riding miles under me, I keep remembering the old saying "if it sounds like a deal too good to be true, it is." (Variants include: "You don't always get what you pay for, but if you try to get > more than what you paid for, you get what you deserve.") > > > > -- > ___________________________________________________________ > Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com > http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 15:41:57 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 15:41:46 EDT Subject: Re: need help gsxr update To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/10/2004 12:12:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, roach@XXXXXX writes: > I hate electrical gremlins :) I have gotta second that one. But while I am at it let me suggest that anyone who is even _thinking_ about working on their electrical system buy an ohm/volt meter. A cheap one will do for most things, and boy can they save you a lot of grief. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 15:48:04 2004 X-OB-Received: from unknown (205.158.62.49) by wfilter.us4.outblaze.com; 10 Jun 2004 19:47:14 -0000 From: "David Blumgart" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 14:47:57 -0500 Subject: Too good 2 B true? Yeah, it's not impossible this is a once-in-a-lifetime deal. After all, I just bought a bike, and it's a truth uiversally acknowledged that if you want to buy anything, wait until I buy it and then watch the price drop. Anyway, I EM'd the seller back, writing: "Well, I'm definitely ready to buy, but would you mind making clear a couple of things so I'm certain I've got them straight? Is the bike in working condition, are there any problems you're aware of? Is there any damage to the bike? Can you send me the VIN? [Thanks, Dan] You have a clear title? How do you want payment? Is there some place we can meet between Taneytown and DC where I could see the bike?" -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 15:49:48 2004 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 12:49:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: To good to be true? To: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX, mojohand@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX That guy has NO feedback, be careful --- ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: > If it were me, I'd ask him if I could come check it > out first and maybe take it for a test ride. If all > checked out, hand him the money and ride home on a > nice new bike. :-) > > Scooter (On Topic Post ;-)) > > In a message dated 6/10/2004 3:17:50 PM Eastern > Daylight Time, mojohand@XXXXXX writes: > > > > > > > So I recently I bid $2,000 bid of this eBay > auction of a 2000 SV650, not for moment thinking I'd > win it, but rather to track the auction. > > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2480704699 > > > > So yesterday I get one of those eBay 'Second > Chance' e-mails (the original bidder has crapped > out, you wanna buy it?) saying the owner wants to > sell it to me for two grand. I EM him back, saying > are you serious? Two grand for a bike with 6,000 > miles?. > > > > He just EM'd back, saying yes. And while greed is > rearing its ugly little head, becuause I really, > really like the small naked SV, and plan to get one > once I get some riding miles under me, I keep > remembering the old saying "if it sounds like a deal > too good to be true, it is." (Variants include: > "You don't always get what you pay for, but if you > try to get > > more than what you paid for, you get what you > deserve.") > > > > > > > > -- > > > ___________________________________________________________ > > Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com > > http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 15:51:04 2004 From: To: Fish Flowers , DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Laminar Lip? Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 15:50:58 -0400 > > From: Fish Flowers > Date: 2004/06/10 Thu AM 11:09:42 EDT > To: DC-Cycles > Subject: Laminar Lip? > > Well, I've got the windscreen of my DL650 in the upper position, and I'm > still experiencing some head buffeting. Does anyone have any experience > with Laminar Lips? (http://www.laminarlip.com/) They make both a standard > and a "sport-touring" lip for the DL650; the sport-touring lip looks like > it's larger overall. Any comments on which of these I should go for, if > either? > > Fish. > also need a pit bull stand, and a new helmet, and and and > no but I'm willing to bet the buffeting isn't coming over the *top* of the windshield, it coming from *underneath*. -aki From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 15:54:31 2004 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 15:54:32 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: To good to be true? At 03:17 PM 6/10/2004, David Blumgart wrote: >So yesterday I get one of those eBay 'Second Chance' e-mails (the original >bidder has crapped out, you wanna buy it?) saying the owner wants to sell >it to me for two grand. I EM him back, saying are you serious? Two grand >for a bike with 6,000 miles?. Turn him down. I'll buy it. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles. One who does not know the enemy but knows himself will sometimes win, sometimes lose. One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself will be in danger in every battle. - Sun Tzu From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 15:59:36 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 15:59:27 EDT Subject: Re: need help gsxr update To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/10/2004 2:01:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, robkeiser@XXXXXX writes: > but what is a tipover switch, and what does it do? Many (if not all (legislation)) bikes with fuel pumps have them. They are there to shut off the fuel pump if you crash or drop the bike, that way they do not continue to pump fuel all over the place, can you say BOOM! Cars have the equivalent, a switch that shuts off the fuel pump if you get hit, find out where the reset is and find it (if it has one) before you get some little bump and your car shuts off and will not re-start. In most cases (at least Honda) shutting off the ignition switch and turning it back on resets the switch. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC 1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European 1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles 1976, Honda CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 16:02:43 2004 From: To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Rant about the Reagan fanatics (Cross Posted) Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 16:02:35 -0400 > > From: Troutman > Date: 2004/06/10 Thu AM 11:33:08 EDT > To: "DC Cycles" > Subject: Re: Rant about the Reagan fanatics (Cross Posted) > > At 11:24 AM 6/10/2004, ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: > >OK, I think that about covers it. I know there are Reagan fans out the > >who won't agree with me but, I just had to get it off my chest. Afterall, > >this is just my opinion and others are welcome to theirs. Flame on if you > >must. > > I'm adding this one to my filters now. Totally unrelated to moto - unless > you had discussed traffic this week. > Too much traffic, wanted to go out and ride my Harley Reaganson today too but now there's a thunderstorm watch. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 16:15:05 2004 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 16:18:00 -0400 To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: need help gsxr update At 03:41 PM 6/10/04 EDT, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: >But while I am at it let me suggest that anyone who is even _thinking_ about >working on their electrical system buy an ohm/volt meter. A cheap one will do >for most things, and boy can they save you a lot of grief. Digital isn't necessary for most stuff either. The analog ones are cheaper, and read accurately enough (you usually want to know "is it about 12 volts, or zero?", not "is it 12.25 or 12.28? As for resistance, 90% of the time you only care about "near zero" and "infinite"...i.e., "is there a connection or not?" If you are working on a computer mainframe, or other sensitive electronics, the digital ones are really nice...the difference between 3 volts and 2 volts can be critical, but bikes aren't likely to be so sensitive, and if they are, you probably need to replace something anyway. That said, my digital meter's continuity setting with the beeper is really nice. I can detect continuity (unbroken wires) without having to look at the meter...just listen for the beep. Of course, the same could be done with a battery, some wire and a $.50 buzzer... The only thing I'd kind of like to have, and don't, is one of those clamp-type current sensors, that pick up by induction and let you know if there's current flowing, and how much, without having to disconnect anything. Can speed up tracing things sometimes (I do more house system and computer system work than bike system...so far anyway). -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 16:16:37 2004 From: Stephen Miller Subject: Re: To good to be true? Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 16:16:30 -0400 To: DC-Cycles Is it blue? I think it might be a guy on the Baltimore-DC SV list. On Jun 10, 2004, at 3:24 PM, Daniel H. Brown wrote: > On Thu, 10 Jun 2004, David Blumgart wrote: > >> So I recently I bid $2,000 bid of this eBay auction of a 2000 SV650, >> not for moment thinking I'd win it, but rather to track the auction. >> >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? >> ViewItem&item=2480704699 >> >> So yesterday I get one of those eBay 'Second Chance' e-mails (the >> original bidder has crapped out, you wanna buy it?) saying the owner >> wants to sell it to me for two grand. I EM him back, saying are you >> serious? Two grand for a bike with 6,000 miles?. > >> >> He just EM'd back, saying yes. > > So -- the auction says its in MD. Tell him you want to take a run up > to > look at things, before committing. What do you have to lose, other > than > the time to make a trip up to B'more. > > Maybe see if he'll send the VIN and, if so, see if your insurance > people > can check to see if the bike is stolen. > > -- > Dan Brown > brown@XXXXXX > > http://cornersolution.com The only blog you need to read. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 16:23:59 2004 From: Stephen Miller Subject: Re: Laminar Lip? Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 16:23:49 -0400 To: DC-Cycles Fish, do a little investigation to see if maybe the Motech centerstand for the SV and SVS will fit your DL. We could probably tell just by looking at my SV next to your DL and my centerstand hardware, etc. Unfortunately, I'm in Western Mass. until July, but if you're patient... > >> >> From: Fish Flowers >> Date: 2004/06/10 Thu AM 11:09:42 EDT >> To: DC-Cycles >> Subject: Laminar Lip? >> >> also need a pit bull stand, and a new helmet, and and and >> > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 16:32:54 2004 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 16:32:51 -0400 From: Aaron Maurer To: "penguinbiker@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: need help gsxr update Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX My F-I bike (R1150GS) doesn't have a cut-off, so it's probably not mandated. (Yep, I might've seen that rear wheel spin when one of the jugs was laying on the ground a few times.) Of course, unlike my old Triumph, the beemer doesn't lock out the starter switch when running either. Oops. On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 15:59:27 EDT, penguinbiker@XXXXXX wrote: > > In a message dated 6/10/2004 2:01:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > robkeiser@XXXXXX writes: > > > but what is a tipover switch, and what does it do? > > Many (if not all (legislation)) bikes with fuel pumps have them. They are > there to shut off the fuel pump if you crash or drop the bike, that way they do > not continue to pump fuel all over the place, can you say BOOM! Cars have the > equivalent, a switch that shuts off the fuel pump if you get hit, find out > where the reset is and find it (if it has one) before you get some little bump and > your car shuts off and will not re-start. > > In most cases (at least Honda) shutting off the ignition switch and turning > it back on resets the switch. > > John Walters (Long John) > PenguinBiker@XXXXXX > Up near DC > > 1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European > 1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles > 1976, Honda CR250M Motowhat racer > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 16:37:10 2004 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 13:37:03 -0700 (PDT) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Rant about the Reagan fanatics (Cross Posted) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >OK folks, this message is in no way intended to show disrespect for President Reagan. He was actually one of my favorite President's. This is a rant about the Reagan fanatics. What kind of bikes do they ride? *Must* be Harleys! > [Dave] We can put a stop to this by simply having corporate > sponsorship for these things. For example, the "Dutch Boy > Paints White House", "Office Depot Pentagon", "Preparation H > House of Representatives" and "Maalox US Senate". Cool, except it should be the Chrysler Pentagon, shouldn't it? And maybe the KKK White House... -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 16:53:47 2004 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 16:53:31 -0400 From: Brian Roach To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: need help gsxr update Aaron Maurer wrote: > My F-I bike (R1150GS) doesn't have a cut-off, so it's probably not > mandated. All the new sport bikes have them because of FIM racing requirements - you have to have one, and it has to be functioning. - Roach -- http://www.speedwerks.com The one-stop shop for all your motorcycling needs! (302) 672 - 7223 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 17:07:30 2004 From: "Rob Sharp" To: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX, exupbrotherhood@XXXXXX, AFRA@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Rant about the Reagan fanatics (Cross Posted) Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 17:09:41 -0400 When Reagan became President I was 3 and when he left I was 11. So I don't have much to say except your all old farts :) Rob -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 18:48:59 2004 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 15:48:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Too good 2 B true? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX If he gives you the address, check it against the photo. There's a 527 on the side of the garage :-) Check other auctions for similar bikes. I found 4 or 5 that had 0 feedback and were all activated the same day. This guy was activated on May 30th. For example, see the following items: Member since June 9th: 2001 GSXR1000 Buy it now $3300 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=50029&item=2481888278&rd=1 Member since June 10th: 2002 Hayabusa $890 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=50030&item=2481883715&rd=1 Member since June 10th: 2003 GSXR1000 $1121 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=50029&item=2481878316&rd=1 Then if you click on their other auctions you see four bikes with the same prices. They're like a rash. Do a sort on price and check out all the bikes that are too low to be true. Feedback 0, Member since 30 days or less ago. Location: Canada. Carl --- David Blumgart wrote: > Yeah, it's not impossible this is a once-in-a-lifetime deal. After all, > I just bought a bike, and it's a truth uiversally acknowledged that if > you want to buy anything, wait until I buy it and then watch the price > drop. > Anyway, I EM'd the seller back, writing: ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 10 23:03:55 2004 From: "John Finity" To: Subject: Re: Exponential Dumb Assedness Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 23:03:49 -0400 I'm not making excuses for the twisted pea-brained excuse for spineless invertebrate you had cut you off, purposefully or out of neglect. He should be allowed to be tied to your cycle as a passenger for two weeks and scream bloody murder when he sees other goobers cutting you off and endangering himself on back of bike in process. However. As a participating member of the mature 4-wheel driving community, I have had my own mental fuel set afire by the pack of squids who rocket around you in beltway traffic, weave recklessly in and out of lanes, zoom up past lanes of waiting traffic by riding the shoulder, or even between lanes. Haven't you? Makes me think it out to be lawful to have a machine gun or rocket launcher mounted on front of my car to be a participant in the law of evolution (eliminating the weak and worthless to let the better species flourish.) Whats the point, you ask? Remember, this dumb twit, may have a pea brain like an elephant and all he can remember is last time he saw a 'biker' it was one of those reckless squids. You are on a bike too; guilt by association. They may not have it in just because of you, but they have been set off by jackass bike jockeys out for a thrill at expense of their safety and sanity. And next day, they come across you or me. And we take the crap for it. Does that make it right for them? Nope, they still should be emasculated and/or disemboweled. (Look it up ...) Remember, seeds get sown by bad behavior. Can we be better ambassadors to make people believe that all bikers aren't hells angels or rice-rocket pimply-faced squids? Yes, one person at a time. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 11 09:15:08 2004 From: "W.S." To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: Some opinions please... Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 09:14:52 -0400 Chiming in here because I've owned both a Kaw Vulcan 500 LTD and (currently my 2nd) 750 (EN500, VN750). The 500 is a nice starter bike, been around for longtime. The 750 mid-cruiser (made in Nebraska) was created by the gods over 15 years ago and is still selling: Shaft drive, wet valves, plenty power just begin the attributes list. Contact me offlist for details. I'd add just a bit to the already good ideas here re first bike entry strategy - go with a "crutch approach". Before selecting one of the good bike candidates, decide on how to easily access good-to-excellent help and gear for the first year or so. Friend, good mechanic, dealer, whatever. Then try for the most solid moto, perhaps low mileage, warranty, pre-owned by blind librarian, etc. that seems appropriate, keeping you out of the trouble ruts and letting you focus on selecting the kinds of fun you want to indulge in. And when the shiny side goes down or balks, the crutch will get you back up quickly. Seconding all MSF and proper gear recos. Keep us posted. Bill S. / DC '99 VN750 > at 17K just broken in Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 11 11:47:04 2004 Subject: (Partially-Moto) Hose clamps Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 11:46:55 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "DC Cycles" Previously, when I replaced all the hoses on the Interceptor, I used stainless steel AWAB clamps bought from Boater World (?) in Alexandria. Anyone know if I can get these clamps from a shop in the Reston/Herndon/Centreville/Manassas area? I need to do some repairs this weekend, and would prefer to avoid a trip down the Beltway and then back to Manassas (garage) if I can help it. These are great hose clamps, by the way; the "cogs" or indentations in the band that the screw engages are rolled into the band, not perforated, so the hose surface is not cut when the clamp is tightened. And they are all-stainless, including the screws, they still look brand new after a year of riding in all sorts of weather. Any replies appreciated! Robert From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 11 11:51:34 2004 Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 11:53:13 -0400 From: Skip CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Reserve tank Erick Singley wrote: > But - it was odd this morning. 25 miles into the ride to work, I > started getting that same engine power loss. Once I flipped it into > reserve - it ran smoothly. I can see I'll be taking apart that tank > this weekend.... That makes it sound even more like a clogged screen. --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 11 11:59:01 2004 Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 11:58:47 -0400 From: Aaron Maurer To: "Verde, Robert" Subject: Re: (Partially-Moto) Hose clamps Cc: DC-Cycles Robert, I prefer to use fuel-injector type clamps for all the fuel lines on my bike -- they're more secure than the worm-screw type you describe (even those like you describe with the indentations rolled into the band) and you can pick them up at most of the chain auto stores (e.g., I get mine at the one on 14th & R(?) in the district). http://www.roberts.ezpublishing.com/croberts/hose.htm I use type B/Figure 2 when I have a choice. The normal worm-screw type (type F/figure 6) is bad for the reasons stated on the page -- the hose is damaged in use, either by the screw biting into the rubber, or the rubber being forced through the holes when the clamp is tightened, and FIRE can result. BMW uses a type of clamp not shown, which is tightened by crimping a plain band of metal. This led to a recent recall of all 2001-2004 motorcycles for fuel leaks. Interestingly, BMW didn't replace the clamps, just recrimped them. Bad idea, IMO. On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 11:46:55 -0400, Verde, Robert wrote: > > Previously, when I replaced all the hoses on the Interceptor, I used stainless steel AWAB clamps bought from Boater World (?) in Alexandria. Anyone know if I can get these clamps from a shop in the Reston/Herndon/Centreville/Manassas area? I need to do some repairs this weekend, and would prefer to avoid a trip down the Beltway and then back to Manassas (garage) if I can help it. > > These are great hose clamps, by the way; the "cogs" or indentations in the band that the screw engages are rolled into the band, not perforated, so the hose surface is not cut when the clamp is tightened. And they are all-stainless, including the screws, they still look brand new after a year of riding in all sorts of weather. > > Any replies appreciated! > > Robert > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 11 12:05:18 2004 Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 12:07:16 -0400 From: Skip To: John Finity CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Exponential Dumb Assedness John Finity wrote: > However. As a participating member of the mature 4-wheel driving community, > I have had my own mental fuel set afire by the pack of squids who rocket > around you in beltway traffic, weave recklessly in and out of lanes, zoom up > past lanes of waiting traffic by riding the shoulder, or even between lanes. > Haven't you? Makes me think it out to be lawful to have a machine gun or > rocket launcher mounted on front of my car to be a participant in the law of > evolution (eliminating the weak and worthless to let the better species > flourish.) had that happen to me on Monday on I-83 in Baltimore. one guy went by at about 100 (I was doing eighty, and he --flew-- by) standing on the passenger pegs, doing a wheelie. another **alomst** caught my bumper as he passed on the right as I was getting over, with my indicator on. I didn't see him until he was passing me, and I had been checking my mirrors. considering the weaving he did after passing me (cutting across four lanes), I believe he wasn't there when I started the lane change. sometimes, you really --don't-- see them. even when you're looking... --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 11 12:07:07 2004 Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 12:08:47 -0400 From: Skip To: Daniel CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: need help gsxr Daniel wrote: > > I'm working on a 2000 gsxr 600. > > turn key on, dash lights up, guages work, headlight comes on, > tail light comes on. > > press engine kill switch to run, gear to nuetral, clutch pulled in, > kickstand up > > press starter button.. nothing. No clicks, light bright, no light > dimming. [snip stuff checked] > What am I missing? the ingition switch? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 11 12:15:37 2004 Subject: RE: (Partially-Moto) Hose clamps Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 12:15:26 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Aaron Maurer" Cc: "DC-Cycles" Aaron; Those look pretty substantial. I'm thinking of adding a fuel line quick-disconnect to the bike, and I'll certainly consider this type of clamp for the kit. I realize I should have been a little clearer in my earlier post; the repair work I need to do is cage-related, involves replacing heater core and hoses. Since the hoses are exposed to a pretty toxic environment (heat, rain, cold, etc.) I plan to replace the hoses with silicone versions, and the clamps with stainless ones. [Actually, in looking up some AWAB clamps, it looks like they make these FI clamps (AWAB Mini G), but just as a zinc-plated model. http://www.abaofamerica.com/products.asp] I'd like to find some ABA Safe clamps, these look pretty spiffy, and well suited to the silicone hoses. Thanks for the tips! Robert -----Original Message----- From: Aaron Maurer [mailto:amaurer@XXXXXX] Sent: Friday, June 11, 2004 11:59 AM To: Verde, Robert Cc: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: (Partially-Moto) Hose clamps Robert, I prefer to use fuel-injector type clamps for all the fuel lines on my bike -- they're more secure than the worm-screw type you describe (even those like you describe with the indentations rolled into the band) and you can pick them up at most of the chain auto stores (e.g., I get mine at the one on 14th & R(?) in the district). http://www.roberts.ezpublishing.com/croberts/hose.htm I use type B/Figure 2 when I have a choice. The normal worm-screw type (type F/figure 6) is bad for the reasons stated on the page -- the hose is damaged in use, either by the screw biting into the rubber, or the rubber being forced through the holes when the clamp is tightened, and FIRE can result. BMW uses a type of clamp not shown, which is tightened by crimping a plain band of metal. This led to a recent recall of all 2001-2004 motorcycles for fuel leaks. Interestingly, BMW didn't replace the clamps, just recrimped them. Bad idea, IMO. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 11 12:38:13 2004 From: "W.S." To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Travel planning Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 12:38:04 -0400 From CBSMarketwatch: Some new material in this excerpt. Full article at: http://cbs.marketwatch.com/news/story.asp?siteid=mktw&dist=nwtam&guid=%7BD31 890CF%2D779A%2D4C01%2DBD12%2DEC5F5BE2B92A%7D ******* "Tips on staying safe The best way to stay safe: Know the place you're going. "Engaging in some pre-trip intelligence finding is critical to make sure you don't put yourself in the wrong place at the wrong time," LeBlanc said. The U.S. State Department, Air Security International and iJet Travel Risk Management Web sites offer warnings about specific dangers. iJet sells country profiles including local customs, common diseases and crimes, embassy contact information and more, plus ongoing travel alerts, for $25 per trip, for all countries on your itinerary. If a local McDonalds, say, experiences a bomb threat, you'll be told by cell phone or e-mail which streets to avoid. Also, experts say it's safer to travel with others, preferably locals. "If possible, always be with someone who's local, who understands the culture and can understand the situation," LeBlanc said. "Locals know when two rival gangs are about to face off with each other. They're more tuned in to what's going on than you or I would be." Plus, dress like everyone else, don't display signs of wealth, avoid displaying signs of your nationality, and don't walk the streets late at night." ****** Bill S. / DC '99 VN750 > Domestically inclined Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 11 13:37:34 2004 Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 13:40:40 -0400 To: Aaron Maurer From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: (Partially-Moto) Hose clamps Cc: DC-Cycles At 11:58 AM 6/11/04 -0400, Aaron Maurer wrote: >BMW uses a type of clamp not shown, which is tightened by crimping a >plain band of metal. This led to a recent recall of all 2001-2004 >motorcycles for fuel leaks. Interestingly, BMW didn't replace the >clamps, just recrimped them. Bad idea, IMO. Are those the same sort that H-D uses? They require a special pincer plier tool to install them. I think they may be referred to as "Oetiker" clamps, or "ear clamps". Picture of the tool and clamps I mean here: http://www.stahlwille.de/pages_e/02_produkte/prod_kfz/ohrkl.php?pid=steprd&k bz=steprdkfz -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 11 19:02:27 2004 Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 16:02:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Travel planning To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Yea, I've been reading up on my destination. I have a couple of friends I'll be hanging out with and I've bought slacks (I usually wear jeans) to go with my brown shoes and polo shirts. The paperwork I have from the jobsite has a couple of numbers to call prior to leaving and an emergency sheet for who to contact in case of emergency. Man, I thought Greece would be more fun than that :-) Carl --- "W.S." wrote: > From CBSMarketwatch: Some new material in this excerpt. Full article > at: > http://cbs.marketwatch.com/news/story.asp?siteid=mktw&dist=nwtam&guid=%7BD31 > 890CF%2D779A%2D4C01%2DBD12%2DEC5F5BE2B92A%7D > > ******* ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 11 21:21:30 2004 From: "Gary Foreman" To: Subject: FYI: Fast Lane Cycle's HP Shootout! Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 21:24:54 -0400 This Sunday, 12:00 - 5:00 Gary Foreman From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jun 12 14:31:38 2004 From: To: CC: Subject: test Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 14:31:24 -0400 Webmail test From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Jun 13 00:44:03 2004 Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 00:43:50 -0400 To: DC-Cycles@XXXXXX From: "David Blumgart (home)" Subject: Whatta deal (was: Too good...) So I got this response from the 'seller': "... currently I'm having problems with the email from the ebay user Id so that is the reason I've contacted you from this email ! If you'll try to contact me via ebay , I won't receive your email ! I'm currently in NY so we can't meet ... sorry ... I'll pay the shipping fees ! So please mail me back with your full name and address for the shipping and after that ebay will contact you and will tell you the payment method and the deals terms !" Yeah. I don't think so. But if any of you guys who expressed interest want to pursue this, be my guest! Actually, If I had the time I'd string along this obvious scam artist, but life's too short. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Jun 13 11:58:30 2004 Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 12:01:53 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Exponential Dumb Assedness Just a followup on the traction and lane position issue. Yesterday I was going south on Georgia Ave, and came to Randolph Road, left turn lane. It was a sunny, dry day, so I wasn't worrying too much about where in the lane I was in the left turn lane...and was in the middle. Some EDA on foot ran across against the light and the car in front of me hit the brakes to avoid splattering him (we had a green arrow). I hit the brakes to avoid bending metal...and slid almost 40' (6 or 7 bike lengths) on the accumulated oil and gunk. Even left a mark in the stuff, and there was no tire screech at all. I got stopped with about 4' to spare, but it was a little iffy there for a fraction of a second. I suspect I'd have had more traction on either the left or right sides of the lane. So, to answer the person who said traction in the middle is only lowered when rain first starts, and to go out and test this...done. Not a true statement for all bits of roadway, though it may well be true for some. I should have paid more attention to my reply...about the gunk accumulating in places where traffic sits, such as toll plazas. I'll now add turn lanes to that list...particularly ones that haven't been paved in recent years... -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Jun 13 12:06:06 2004 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Mike Bartman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Exponential Dumb Assedness Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 12:08:25 -0400 I find the same thing especailly if it's one of those signals where people tend to stop quick. The skidding either leaves some rubber on the pavement or smooths it would somehow. You end up with a pretty low traction area. I noticed it in the left hand turn area on 370 (left onto great seneca highway) Plus a lot of those intersections have ripples from car tires stopped and waiting over the years so it's also not a consistant contact by the tires as they bounces and lose traction. Rob On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 12:01:53 -0400, Mike Bartman wrote > Just a followup on the traction and lane position issue. > > Yesterday I was going south on Georgia Ave, and came to Randolph > Road, left turn lane. It was a sunny, dry day, so I wasn't worrying > too much about where in the lane I was in the left turn lane...and > was in the middle. Some EDA on foot ran across against the light and > the car in front of me hit the brakes to avoid splattering him (we > had a green arrow). I hit the brakes to avoid bending metal...and > slid almost 40' (6 or 7 bike lengths) on the accumulated oil and > gunk. Even left a mark in the stuff, and there was no tire screech > at all. I got stopped with about 4' to spare, but it was a little > iffy there for a fraction of a second. I suspect I'd have had more > traction on either the left or right sides of the lane. > > So, to answer the person who said traction in the middle is only lowered > when rain first starts, and to go out and test this...done. Not a true > statement for all bits of roadway, though it may well be true for > some. I should have paid more attention to my reply...about the > gunk accumulating in places where traffic sits, such as toll plazas. > I'll now add turn lanes to that list...particularly ones that > haven't been paved in recent years... > > -- Mike B. > > '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non- > Harley folks) > > Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes > is better. -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Jun 13 12:53:43 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 12:53:29 EDT Subject: Re: Exponential Dumb Assedness To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/13/2004 11:58:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time, omni@XXXXXX writes: > I suspect I'd have had > more traction on either the left or right sides of the lane. I have to agree, I rarely (not never, never is a bad idea) ride in the center of the lane. But not only because of the slippery shit but because that is where all the shit lands, shit like nails, bricks, rocks, 2 by 4s, and small moose (Ok maybe not moose but you get the idea.) Also ask yourself "what do I do if I am in my cage and an object, say a brick appears in the center of my lane?" The answer, I expect is, "Nothing, it will just pass under my car." That is what usually happens when I am driving anyhow. If you are in the center of the lane following that car suddenly a brick appears directly in front of you with _no_ warning and you have little or no time to react. If you are two seconds behind the cage (yea like that is going to happen around here) you _may_ have time to swerve. But maybe not. For a larger object, covering more of the lane, say a 4 by 4 by 2ft. probably not. As for nails, a nail in the car tire tracks is usually going to be picked up by a cage tire, or thrown off to the side _or_ into the center were it will sit waiting patiently for the next motorcycle. That does not mean you should _never_ ride there, I do on occasion, but these are things to consider when deciding if that is the best place to ride, under whatever your immediate circumstances are. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC 1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European 1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles 1976, Honda CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Jun 13 13:25:27 2004 Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 13:25:40 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Where the F are my keys? Last saw my keys Friday when I used them to pop the seat off and graft in a fuse for my 12v outlet. Have searched the house twice and pried the seat off to see if I somehow left them inside. No love. I was all suited up and ready to ride this morning when I noticed my keys had disappeared. I have never lost them before. This sucks. I have checked the laundry, riding suit, tank bag, wife's various purses, the floor, driveway, mulch, other vehicles and dog's stool. I'll give it a week before cutting a new set. Unfortunately, I didn't have a spare (only had one when I bought it). _____________________________________ Mike Troutman mike@XXXXXX http://www.troutman.org/vfr '97 Honda VFR 750 AMA - http://www.amadirectlink.com/ NMA - http://www.motorists.org "I'd rather die while I'm living, then live while I'm dead." - Jimmy Buffett From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Jun 13 15:33:20 2004 Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 15:36:44 -0400 To: "Rob Sharp" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Exponential Dumb Assedness At 12:08 PM 6/13/04 -0400, Rob Sharp wrote: >Plus a lot of those intersections have ripples from car tires stopped and >waiting over the years so it's also not a consistant contact by the tires as >they bounces and lose traction. Good point. Contee Road intersection with Rt 1 north of College Park is like that. It's also down-hill, which doesn't help at all. That's where my Honda and I had our fender-bender many years ago. It wasn't the cause, but it was a factor. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Jun 13 19:58:05 2004 From: "Gary Foreman" To: Subject: RE: Where the F are my keys? Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 20:01:32 -0400 Probably with the sock that is always missing. Maybe they are with my O-Ring chain I purchased years ago for my FJ, and NEVER found! Gary -----Original Message----- From: Troutman [mailto:mike@XXXXXX] Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2004 1:26 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Where the F are my keys? Last saw my keys Friday when I used them to pop the seat off and graft in a fuse for my 12v outlet. Have searched the house twice and pried the seat off to see if I somehow left them inside. No love. I was all suited up and ready to ride this morning when I noticed my keys had disappeared. I have never lost them before. This sucks. I have checked the laundry, riding suit, tank bag, wife's various purses, the floor, driveway, mulch, other vehicles and dog's stool. I'll give it a week before cutting a new set. Unfortunately, I didn't have a spare (only had one when I bought it). _____________________________________ Mike Troutman mike@XXXXXX http://www.troutman.org/vfr '97 Honda VFR 750 AMA - http://www.amadirectlink.com/ NMA - http://www.motorists.org "I'd rather die while I'm living, then live while I'm dead." - Jimmy Buffett From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Jun 13 23:45:58 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 23:45:38 EDT Subject: Re: Where the F are my keys? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/13/2004 1:25:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mike@XXXXXX writes: > I was all suited up and ready to ride this morning when I noticed my keys > had disappeared. > This sucks. The virtual definition of SUCKS! (It could be worse, I have a photo of a friend prying open a locked compartment containing the key to that compartment, and the rest of the bike, on an overlook on the BRP hundreds of miles from home. with lots of people watching.) Just a general suggestion, something I have been doing since my first bike back in high school (and that is a godawful long time ago.) I carry a spare key for the bike in my pocket with my house and other various keys at all times. This has bailed my ass out more then once when I have lost my bike key (or dropped it into the fairing where it was teleported into the twilight zone never to be seen again...) John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC 1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European 1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles 1976, Honda CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 14 09:13:19 2004 From: Stephen Miller Subject: Re: Where the F are my keys? Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 09:13:12 -0400 To: DC-Cycles And a new SV650 oil filter that I *thought* was in the box with my filter wrench, oil, funnel, etc. I even found a pair of AGV riding gloves I bought in 1993 while searching for the darn thing. On Jun 13, 2004, at 8:01 PM, Gary Foreman wrote: > Probably with the sock that is always missing. Maybe they are with my > O-Ring chain I purchased years ago for my FJ, and NEVER found! > > Gary > > -----Original Message----- > From: Troutman [mailto:mike@XXXXXX] > Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2004 1:26 PM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Where the F are my keys? > > Last saw my keys Friday when I used them to pop the seat off and graft > in a > fuse for my 12v outlet. Have searched the house twice and pried the > seat > off to see if I somehow left them inside. No love. > > I was all suited up and ready to ride this morning when I noticed my > keys > had disappeared. I have never lost them before. This sucks. > > I have checked the laundry, riding suit, tank bag, wife's various > purses, > the floor, driveway, mulch, other vehicles and dog's stool. I'll give > it a > week before cutting a new set. Unfortunately, I didn't have a spare > (only > had one when I bought it). > > > _____________________________________ > Mike Troutman > mike@XXXXXX > http://www.troutman.org/vfr > > '97 Honda VFR 750 > AMA - http://www.amadirectlink.com/ > NMA - http://www.motorists.org > > "I'd rather die while I'm living, then live while I'm dead." > - Jimmy Buffett > > > > > http://cornersolution.com The only blog you need to read. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 14 10:02:52 2004 From: Daniel To: Troutman Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Where the F are my keys? Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 10:04:10 -0400 Let's see.. 1. ignition? 2. seat lock? 3. helmet lock? 4. with lock and chain? 5. couch? 6. tiny jacket pocket on sleeve or other tiny jacket pocket 7. chidlren? 8. hanging by other key storage area 7. coin pockets in jeans laundry 8. in the bike fairings 9. ask the wife 10. somewhere you put them down to do something like wash your hands 11. in some other lock, like the shed lock, trailer lock? 12. offer a household cash reward to whoever finds your keys (motivates them to double check your spots) 13. check the trash? 14. in that bag that you had near the bike of whtever it was that installed. 15. near whatever you went and fiddled with next trace your steps what did you do next? check those areas 16. in your helmet? 17. in your gloves? 18. in your car? in the arm rest storage area? 19. fell out of your pocket and is under the car seat or behind it by now (i lose stuff that way) hope that helps On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 13:25:40 -0400, Troutman wrote: >Last saw my keys Friday when I used them to pop the seat off and graft in a >fuse for my 12v outlet. Have searched the house twice and pried the seat >off to see if I somehow left them inside. No love. > >I was all suited up and ready to ride this morning when I noticed my keys >had disappeared. I have never lost them before. This sucks. > >I have checked the laundry, riding suit, tank bag, wife's various purses, >the floor, driveway, mulch, other vehicles and dog's stool. I'll give it a >week before cutting a new set. Unfortunately, I didn't have a spare (only >had one when I bought it). > > >_____________________________________ > Mike Troutman > mike@XXXXXX > http://www.troutman.org/vfr > > '97 Honda VFR 750 > AMA - http://www.amadirectlink.com/ > NMA - http://www.motorists.org > > "I'd rather die while I'm living, then live while I'm dead." > - Jimmy Buffett From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 14 10:08:55 2004 Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 10:08:46 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: Where the F are my keys? At 10:04 AM 6/14/2004, Daniel wrote: >15. near whatever you went and fiddled with next > trace your steps what did you do next? check those areas Thanks for the list. I have retraced my steps and they appear to be lost. I'll be dumping the trash on a tarp tonight before it goes to the curb, then ordering a new set from Honda if they don't turn up. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles. One who does not know the enemy but knows himself will sometimes win, sometimes lose. One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself will be in danger in every battle. - Sun Tzu From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 14 10:14:14 2004 Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 07:14:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: 211 this past weekend To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Just want to let you guys know I went over Thornton Gap Saturday ~ 11:30 AM and there was a silver unmarked State Police sitting on the side of the road just before the entrance to Skyline Drive. I guess they really are stepping up enforcement. Glenn __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 14 10:18:56 2004 From: Daniel To: "John Finity" Cc: Subject: Re: Exponential Dumb Assedness Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 10:20:23 -0400 How do we know peopel think that way? or are you just assuming it? I dont' think i'd associate sport bike riders ripping it up, with harley or gold wing riders cruising... they are distinctly different >Whats the point, you ask? Remember, this dumb twit, may have a pea brain >like an elephant and all he can remember is last time he saw a 'biker' it >was one of those reckless squids. You are on a bike too; guilt by >association. They may not have it in just because of you, but they have been >set off by jackass bike jockeys out for a thrill at expense of their safety >and sanity. And next day, they come across you or me. And we take the crap >for it. Does that make it right for them? Nope, they still should be >emasculated and/or disemboweled. (Look it up ...) Remember, seeds get sown >by bad behavior. Can we be better ambassadors to make people believe that >all bikers aren't hells angels or rice-rocket pimply-faced squids? Yes, one >person at a time. > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 14 10:20:06 2004 From: Daniel To: Skip Cc: John Finity , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Exponential Dumb Assedness Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 10:21:41 -0400 >sometimes, you really --don't-- see them. even when you're looking... As long as they see you and factor in your possible movements and you dont' do anything really wild like jumping over 2 lanes, all will be ok and there's nothign to worry about.. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 14 10:36:01 2004 From: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" To: "'Glenn Dysart'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: 211 this past weekend Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 10:35:52 -0400 Yep, a buddy of mine was there around then and said that there were three unmarked cars and a unmarked suv. -----Original Message----- From: Glenn Dysart [mailto:glenn_dysart@XXXXXX] Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 10:14 AM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: 211 this past weekend Just want to let you guys know I went over Thornton Gap Saturday ~ 11:30 AM and there was a silver unmarked State Police sitting on the side of the road just before the entrance to Skyline Drive. I guess they really are stepping up enforcement. Glenn __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 14 10:54:03 2004 Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 10:55:10 -0400 To: Daniel , "John Finity" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Exponential Dumb Assedness Cc: Someone wrote: >>Whats the point, you ask? Remember, this dumb twit, may have a pea brain >>like an elephant and all he can remember is last time he saw a 'biker' it >>was one of those reckless squids. You are on a bike too; guilt by At 10:20 AM 6/14/04 -0400, Daniel top-posted after losing the attribution for the above: >How do we know peopel think that way? or are you just assuming it? I suspect it's an educated assumption. I'm sure that some people do think that way...but I'd guess they are rare...luckily. >I dont' think i'd associate sport bike riders ripping it up, with >harley or gold wing riders cruising... they are distinctly different I agree with you, but not everyone is as moto-aware as you and I are. There are probably people who don't make any distinction between a Gold Wing and a Hyabusa. They both have two wheels, and that's as far as they go. There are distinct differences between a long-haul semi with a sleeper cab and a local-use tractor without one...but to most drivers they are both "semis", and they lump them together when thinking about large trucks. There are enough similarities, and they don't think about it enough to note the differences, both in the trucks and in the drivers. It could easily be the same with bikes. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 14 11:29:47 2004 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: "Silver, Arthur "NIH/NIGMS"" , "'Glenn Dysart'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: RE: 211 this past weekend Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 11:29:37 -0400 I was out that way late Sunday morning and didn't see any enforcement. It was chilly and cloudy out, so maybe they didn't figure on many "bikers". Did see a group of 6 or 8 headed west toward the hill as I was headed east. Bob Meyer > > From: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" > Date: 2004/06/14 Mon AM 10:35:52 EDT > To: "'Glenn Dysart'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: RE: 211 this past weekend > > Yep, a buddy of mine was there around then and said that there were three > unmarked cars and a unmarked suv. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Glenn Dysart [mailto:glenn_dysart@XXXXXX] > Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 10:14 AM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: 211 this past weekend > > Just want to let you guys know I went over Thornton > Gap Saturday ~ 11:30 AM and there was a silver > unmarked State Police sitting on the side of the road > just before the entrance to Skyline Drive. I guess > they really are stepping up enforcement. > > Glenn > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. > http://messenger.yahoo.com/ > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 14 11:38:06 2004 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: Mike Bartman , Daniel , "John Finity" CC: Subject: Re: Re: Exponential Dumb Assedness Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 11:37:55 -0400 > > From: Mike Bartman > Date: 2004/06/14 Mon AM 10:55:10 EDT > To: Daniel , "John Finity" > CC: > Subject: Re: Exponential Dumb Assedness > > Someone wrote: > >>Whats the point, you ask? Remember, this dumb twit, may have a pea brain > >>like an elephant and all he can remember is last time he saw a 'biker' it > >>was one of those reckless squids. You are on a bike too; guilt by I agree with this. I'm sometimes amazed at how little most people know about bikes. Even friends of mine, who have more exposure to M/Cs than most people don't know a Harley from an FZR. Sure, they might see all cruiser style bikes as "Harleys" and all touring bikes as "Goldwings." I've even heard comments about "racing" bikes. But when push comes to shove, for most people it's "motorcycle" as opposed to car. And when they hear a loud bike, or see an asshole do something stupid on a bike, whether it's a Harley or an R1, what registers is "motorcycle." Saw some idiot near Reston yesterday: Legs spread as wide as he could get them to the sides, he pulls a wheelie and goes riding down Lawyers Rd with the front wheel in the air, legs still akimbo. Did anyone driving by see that and say "My, what a skilled motorcyclist exhibiting superb vehicle control?" Of course not. They thought things like "crazy bastard," "idiot" and "damned bikers." Don't expect a lot of sympathy from the drivers who witnessed that the next time you claim motorcylists are being treated unfairly. Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" '02 919 I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 14 15:29:13 2004 Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 11:43:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: NYT Article: No Helmet=More Death To: DC Cycles Cc: Charles Pena , Paul Wilson This article touches on many issues rarely seen in the normal media. Most interesting to me is that MSF basic lessons may not be enough past six months. This is why I think RIDER TRAINING is tied with HELMET in my "Top Two Ways to Prevent Death: Motorcycle Category" /-: Discuss, and Mike write me a ten-pager (-: June 14, 2004 As Risks Make a Helmet More Vital, Fewer Motorcyclists Wear One By MATTHEW L. WALD New York Times OHNSTOWN, Pa., June 7 - Dr. Daniel R. Wehner is not sure what business will be like at his emergency room this summer, the first since Pennsylvania repealed its motorcycle helmet law, but he says he hopes the Sunday of Memorial Day weekend will not prove to be typical. That day the ambulances and helicopters brought him six motorcycle casualties. One man, who had been wearing a helmet, had a broken leg. The other five, who had not been wearing helmets, all had brain injuries. "Most of the time, if your brain's O.K., we can save you," said Dr. Wehner, the chairman of the emergency medical department at Conemaugh Memorial Medical Center, a regional trauma center. For a brain injury, he said, "there's very little we can do." Dr. Wehner has a curbside view of a crisis. Motorcycling, which is growing in popularity, is also growing much more dangerous. Motorcycle deaths last year were up 11 percent over 2002, to 3,592, and were up almost 70 percent since 1997. The risk has increased so much that there were 50 percent more deaths per mile in 2002 than in 1997. No one is sure quite why, although the repeal of helmet laws in 31 states, many in the last few years, is one reason. Another likely factor is that motorcycles are getting faster, and their riders are getting older; all six of Dr. Wehner's highway casualties, for example, were at least 40. That Sunday, there were also two casualties on a racecourse near town, both young men. On the track, they are required to wear helmets, and their injuries were limited to broken bones. The federal government is eager to reduce the carnage, but beyond advocating helmets, it is not sure how. Rae Tyson, a spokesman for the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, said an in-depth study was needed. "You can't really develop any sort of regulatory solution until you understand why motorcycles are crashing in the first place," said Mr. Tyson, a motorcyclist who is president of a club for fans of Ducati, an upscale Italian make. The Motorcycle Safety Foundation, a group financed by manufacturers, says the solution is rider training. But its officials acknowledge that such training may be of benefit mostly to novices, with little impact after the first six months. The fact that motorcycling is no longer just for the young and rebellious is apparent at a small hospital, 30 miles east of Conemaugh Memorial Medical Center. Every morning, Marc J. Finder, a 50-year-old emergency room doctor, rides 22 miles to work on a BMW R1100 RT. His colleagues tease him, saying he is riding a "donor-cycle," a reference to riders becoming organ donors. "All of life is risk," Dr. Finder said. "The issue is how much we control it." He said he always wears boots, long-sleeved shirts and a helmet. When victims arrive at his emergency room without helmets, he said, he tries to persuade the victims to wear them, although he said helmets cut down on hearing, can interfere with vision and are hot. Riding helmetless is "seductive," he said. Dr. Finder is in some ways typical of today's riders, in age and purchasing. He got his first bike in 1999 and is now on his second, which has more horsepower than his old Subaru sedan. With his son now out of college, he is shopping for a third, faster one. There are no precise statistics on the age of riders, but the federal government does track those who die. Deaths among people 50 and over were up 24 percent in 2002, the last year for which the breakdown is available; deaths among people under 40 declined slightly. Some wonder whether older riders are more vulnerable because of slower reflexes or impaired judgment. And while some assume that older riders might take fewer risks, Chuck Hurley, a spokesman for the National Safety Council, said that older riders were no more cognizant of risk than younger ones. "The greater the risk, the greater the risk denial," he said. And many older riders can afford as much horsepower as they can handle, or more, experts say. Buck Shinkman, who is 60, used to be satisfied commuting from his home in Bethesda, Md., to his job at the State Department in Washington on a 1995 Harley-Davidson Wide Glide motorcycle, which cruises at 65 or 70 miles an hour. But in 2002, Harley came out with the V-Rod, which "goes like crazy," he said - zero to 60 in 3.4 seconds - and he bought one. It reaches 60 m.p.h. faster than all but the speediest sports cars, and far faster than most airplanes rolling toward takeoff. Mr. Shinkman said he had had just one accident in many years of riding. He wears conservative ties over button-down white shirts, with his State Department ID hanging around his neck on a Harley-Davidson lanyard. Does he race the V-Rod? "No, no, good Lord, no," he said, but added: "Just occasionally, somebody at a traffic light gets a little snitty. I have to blow them off." At Battley Cycles, in Gaithersburg, Md., a northern suburb of Washington, many of the buyers are older, said the owner, Devin Battley. What he hears from prospective customers these days, Mr. Battley said, is, "I've got the kids' college education figured out, so now I can get my motorcycle." In fact, many of his motorcycles sell for up to $20,000, the equivalent of a semester's college expenses at a top private school. Mr. Battley said he worried about selling a novice more bike than he can handle. He sold six to Mike Tyson, the boxer, beginning in 1997, and pleaded with him to take lessons. Getting good at any sport requires a trainer, he said he told Mr. Tyson. Mr. Battley, who has been selling motorcycles for 20 years, said big bikes were selling well. But while the big engines have caught on, sophisticated braking control systems have not. Many of the heavier and faster motorcycles now have power-assisted disc brakes but most lack antilock brakes, and have a setup akin to a bicycle's, with separate front and rear controls. Unlike a car, a motorcycle requires the operator to decide how much force to apply to each brake. There is substantial evidence that in emergencies, many riders do it incorrectly, avoiding the front brake, even though it has 70 to 80 percent of the stopping potential. Mr. Battley said many riders would not want linked brakes, which apply in the front and the rear, or antilock brake systems. But based on the maintenance work his shop performs, many of his customers use the rear brake too much. He often finds the rear brake pads more worn than the front ones. Hugh H. Hurt Jr., a safety researcher in California, who has investigated crashes of police motorcyclists and other experienced riders, said the rear brake locks and the rider can lose control, or fail to slow down enough to avoid a crash. Some police departments have switched to BMWs, he said, one of the brands that has linked brake systems. But Lee D. Edmunds, a spokesman for Honda, said that many customers do not even want linked or antilock brakes. "They want to be able to have full control over that," he said. Among motorcyclists, openness to improved technology depends on the rider, Mr. Edmunds said. "The pure performance guys, those guys resist that technology," he said. The "re-entry guy" - the rider returning to the motorcycle because his children are older - would probably accept it, he said. For some older riders, the lure of the motorcycle is indeed powerful. Ron McKinnon, 57, of suburban Virginia, has arthritis and says he lacks the strength to support the cycle at a red light. So he cruises around on a powerful, three-wheeled Honda. His grandchildren love to ride along. "Grandpa can take kids on his motorcycle, so Grandpa is cool," he says they tell him. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 14 16:45:44 2004 Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 16:48:38 -0400 To: Mark Kitchell , DC Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: NYT Article: No Helmet=More Death At 11:43 AM 6/14/04 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote: >normal media. Most interesting to me is that MSF >basic lessons may not be enough past six months. Sounds like 6 months on the street is equivalent to 2 days on the parking lot course. >This is why I think RIDER TRAINING is tied with HELMET in >my "Top Two Ways to Prevent Death: Motorcycle >Category" /-: Given that I've heard that half of all moto deaths involve alcohol, I'd add staying sober in there somewhere too. >growing much more dangerous. Motorcycle deaths last >year were up 11 percent over 2002, to 3,592, and were >up almost 70 percent since 1997. The risk has >increased so much that there were 50 percent more >deaths per mile in 2002 than in 1997. Be interesting to know what causes these accidents, so we'd know what sort of things to avoid most. Lumping the figures like this isn't very helpful, except to tell you not to ride at all...and even that assumes that the trends aren't the same with cars. >Deaths among people 50 and over were up 24 percent in >2002, the last year for which the breakdown is >available; deaths among people under 40 declined >slightly. I suspect that older riders have more exposure in general. Once you are retired, you have more time to ride, and you may make more longer rides. Younger folks might be riding less on average due to the economy...but without more data it's all just speculation. >Some wonder whether older riders are more vulnerable >because of slower reflexes or impaired judgment. And Probably, but experience is a counter to that. You don't need such fast reflexes if you realize the problem, or potential problem, sooner. Impaired judgement? That seems to me more a factor with young riders...hormones have all sorts of strange effects. At least until you start talking senility anyway...and senile folks shouldn't be riding or driving. Walking is questionable too...at least not without supervision. >reaches 60 m.p.h. faster than all but the speediest >sports cars, and far faster than most airplanes >rolling toward takeoff. Huh? What have airplanes got to do with anything? Most have really slow initial acceleration...that's not what they are all about. A V-rod is a whole lot faster than a sailboat too, and can't hold a candle to the 10Gs of a sounding rocket or the 0-100 in under 1 second accelerations of a top fuel dragster, but so what?? >Mr. Battley said many riders would not want linked >brakes, which apply in the front and the rear, or >antilock brake systems. Very true. I like being able to use the rear without the front, particularly at low speeds in turns, like in parking lots. It is true that there's a strong tendency to lock the rear in a panic stop though. Perhaps a smarter braking system? One that doesn't link the brakes until the force being used, and the speed of the bike, are high enough? >But based on the maintenance >work his shop performs, many of his customers use the >rear brake too much. He often finds the rear brake >pads more worn than the front ones. He's making an assumption I think. I use the rear alone lots of times, like at slow speeds in turns. On the street I tend to do most braking with the engine, saving the brakes for the final stop, though I may touch the rear earlier to get the brake light lit up as a warning for following traffic. If I have to stop in a hurry, I use both...though I need to work on modulating the rear better to avoid lockups in really fast stops. Given that pads drag on disks all the time, is there any effect on the rear that isn't there on the front, such as torque from the drive pully, that might cause faster pad wear on the rear? No real idea if such a thing might account for part of the data seen. >But Lee D. Edmunds, a spokesman for Honda, said that >many customers do not even want linked or antilock >brakes. "They want to be able to have full control >over that," he said. As I describe above, it may be possible with the right technology to do both. If such a system was available, I'd love to have one. ABS is great, so long as it doesn't get in the way of normal riding, and linking the front and rear brakes in a panic stop is fine with me, so long as they are separate the rest of the time. Is BMW's system like that? Or is it always linked? Not a bad article. The author is obviously not a rider, but he does appear to have done some research and tried to understand things. Better than most I've seen. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 14 17:24:20 2004 Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 14:03:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: NYT Article: No Helmet=More Death To: Mike Bartman , DC Cycles The way I read the MSF comment is that the basic rider course is equal to six months of street experience. After six months a rider should get more training. Wishful thinking I know.... --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 11:43 AM 6/14/04 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote: > >normal media. Most interesting to me is that MSF > >basic lessons may not be enough past six months. > > Sounds like 6 months on the street is equivalent to > 2 days on the parking > lot course. > > >This is why I think RIDER TRAINING is tied with > HELMET in > >my "Top Two Ways to Prevent Death: Motorcycle > >Category" /-: > > Given that I've heard that half of all moto deaths > involve alcohol, I'd add > staying sober in there somewhere too. > > >growing much more dangerous. Motorcycle deaths last > >year were up 11 percent over 2002, to 3,592, and > were > >up almost 70 percent since 1997. The risk has > >increased so much that there were 50 percent more > >deaths per mile in 2002 than in 1997. > > Be interesting to know what causes these accidents, > so we'd know what sort > of things to avoid most. Lumping the figures like > this isn't very helpful, > except to tell you not to ride at all...and even > that assumes that the > trends aren't the same with cars. > > >Deaths among people 50 and over were up 24 percent > in > >2002, the last year for which the breakdown is > >available; deaths among people under 40 declined > >slightly. > > I suspect that older riders have more exposure in > general. Once you are > retired, you have more time to ride, and you may > make more longer rides. > Younger folks might be riding less on average due to > the economy...but > without more data it's all just speculation. > > >Some wonder whether older riders are more > vulnerable > >because of slower reflexes or impaired judgment. > And > > Probably, but experience is a counter to that. You > don't need such fast > reflexes if you realize the problem, or potential > problem, sooner. > Impaired judgement? That seems to me more a factor > with young > riders...hormones have all sorts of strange effects. > At least until you > start talking senility anyway...and senile folks > shouldn't be riding or > driving. Walking is questionable too...at least not > without supervision. > > >reaches 60 m.p.h. faster than all but the speediest > >sports cars, and far faster than most airplanes > >rolling toward takeoff. > > Huh? What have airplanes got to do with anything? > Most have really slow > initial acceleration...that's not what they are all > about. A V-rod is a > whole lot faster than a sailboat too, and can't hold > a candle to the 10Gs > of a sounding rocket or the 0-100 in under 1 second > accelerations of a top > fuel dragster, but so what?? > > >Mr. Battley said many riders would not want linked > >brakes, which apply in the front and the rear, or > >antilock brake systems. > > Very true. I like being able to use the rear > without the front, > particularly at low speeds in turns, like in parking > lots. It is true that > there's a strong tendency to lock the rear in a > panic stop though. Perhaps > a smarter braking system? One that doesn't link the > brakes until the force > being used, and the speed of the bike, are high > enough? > > >But based on the maintenance > >work his shop performs, many of his customers use > the > >rear brake too much. He often finds the rear brake > >pads more worn than the front ones. > > He's making an assumption I think. I use the rear > alone lots of times, > like at slow speeds in turns. On the street I tend > to do most braking with > the engine, saving the brakes for the final stop, > though I may touch the > rear earlier to get the brake light lit up as a > warning for following > traffic. If I have to stop in a hurry, I use > both...though I need to work > on modulating the rear better to avoid lockups in > really fast stops. > > Given that pads drag on disks all the time, is there > any effect on the rear > that isn't there on the front, such as torque from > the drive pully, that > might cause faster pad wear on the rear? No real > idea if such a thing > might account for part of the data seen. > > >But Lee D. Edmunds, a spokesman for Honda, said > that > >many customers do not even want linked or antilock > >brakes. "They want to be able to have full control > >over that," he said. > > As I describe above, it may be possible with the > right technology to do > both. If such a system was available, I'd love to > have one. ABS is great, > so long as it doesn't get in the way of normal > riding, and linking the > front and rear brakes in a panic stop is fine with > me, so long as they are > separate the rest of the time. Is BMW's system like > that? Or is it always > linked? > > Not a bad article. The author is obviously not a > rider, but he does appear > to have done some research and tried to understand > things. Better than > most I've seen. > > -- Mike B. > > '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI > for the non-Harley folks) > > Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from > someone else's mistakes > is better. > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 14 18:15:30 2004 Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 18:15:23 -0400 From: Aaron Maurer To: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: NYT Article: No Helmet=More Death Cc: Mike Bartman , DC Cycles Bartman asked: >>But Lee D. Edmunds, a spokesman for Honda, said that >>many customers do not even want linked or antilock >>brakes. "They want to be able to have full control >>over that," he said. > >As I describe above, it may be possible with the right technology to do >both. If such a system was available, I'd love to have one. ABS is great, >so long as it doesn't get in the way of normal riding, and linking the >front and rear brakes in a panic stop is fine with me, so long as they are >separate the rest of the time. Is BMW's system like that? Or is it always >linked? On new BMW's (EVO/ABS III brake systems), the brakes are power-assisted, linked and have ABS (duh). The linking is different depending on the bike -- the bigger tourers (RT, LT) have a system wherein the front lever and the rear pedal both operate the front and rear brakes. On the sportier bikes, and those meant for light off-road duty, the front lever works front and rear brakes, but the rear pedal operates only the rear. All are controversial -- people complain the power-assist feature (the first on a motorcycle according to the BMW propaganda) lessens brake feel; that the linked brakes on the tourers hurt when someone wants to use only the rear (low speed turns), that ABS makes braking distances longer for trained riders, and that the whole system is too complex for the average mechanic. The quick, powerful, and no-skid stop on the rain and oil-slickened TR bridge showed me the value of mine. I also like the fact that the brakes recognize the load on the bike (pillion/no pillion, etc.) and proportion the front/rear force accordingly. Of course, I also have less brake feel than I did on my Speed Triple (the best brakes I've ever used), and the ABS kicks in sometimes on bumpy surfaces, likely lengthening stopping distance somewhat too. But, all told, I'm glad to have them. Aaron (more info: http://www.bmw-motorrad.co.uk/gb/en/services/integralabs/specials/integral_abs/for.html ) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 14 20:46:06 2004 Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 20:42:18 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Ulrich Boser Subject: for sale X-AntiVirus: Checked for viruses by Gordano's AntiVirus Software X-AntiSpam: Checked for restricted content by Gordano's AntiSpam Software Hello, I'm selling some motorcycle accessories. Take one or all, by calling me--Ulrich--at 202.258.1882 or email at ulrichboser@XXXXXX if you're interested. Joe Rocket Ballistic Jacket. Size Large. Excellent condition. Hardly ever been used. 100% waterproof. Removable dual density body armor in shoulders, elbows/forearms, and spine pad. Removable insulated full sleeve liner and full mesh nylon lining. Effective ventilation system and six outside pockets and 2 inside pockets. Cost: $150. First Gear Hypertext Pants. Size 38. 100% waterproof with thinsulate. Armor in knees, shins and rear. The top half of the left side is dotted with some white paint and all-black appearance is compromised. These pants are in good, clean condition. Cost: $80 HJC Helmet. Size extra large. A number of nicks and scratches from being carried around. White. Small tear in lining but the helmet has never been in an accident. Cost: $35. Held Motorcycle racing gloves. Size is 8.5 or about a large. Black and tan. They have also never been in an accident but show a fair amount of use. The fingertips on the both gloves are black from holding handlebars and they curve slightly but are in good, clean condition. Cost: $40 ub From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 14 20:53:44 2004 From: "Shigeru Honda" To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: FS: Track day 6/19 (sat) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 20:54:58 -0400 Do'h, I forgot to cancel this event and now it's too late to cancel. For sale for $100, a spot for NYSBC track day at Suumit JC (counter clockwise, I think) this coming Saturday. I've never been to their track day so I don't really know how then run stuff but should be fun. http://www.nysportbikeclub.com/ Please email me or call me if anyone is interested. You are welcome to forwad this email to anyone. thanks --------------------- Shigeru Honda 301-602-9431 (Mobile) 703-535-8625 (home) 98 SuperHawk (Street) 99 750 SS (Track #881) 02 MZ Skorpion Tour (Commuter) 91 CR80 (new toy) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 15 06:51:30 2004 From: Daniel To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: guilt by association Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 06:52:56 -0400 I still have to disagree on "the general public sees all bikes the same"... to a certain generation, "Harley's are real bikes" and "rice burners are japanese crap" .. and while they might lump in the japanese cruisers with harleys, I do't believe they lump them in with sport bikes. They may not make the distinction of a squid's bike beinga sportbike over a motorcycle, but when they get down the road, I don't think they see a harley and go "Hey there's that asshole" or "oh look another one of those stunt pulling assholes". They almost always see the wheelies from the sportbikes and never from the wheelies. It's kind of like comparing isuzu box trucks to semi's and people dont' see them as the same. now granted you have complete morons who will say anything out there... and hate all motorcyclists, but if they do i think they've had their run ins with the cruiser rider type too. and while they might say both are motorcycles, but in their mind they won't try to run over a harley rider becasue tehy got pissed at a sportbike rider. (how many police stories have you heard where that happened). I'm just saying, we all know, annedotal incidences, do not count as a proper scientific representation of what the average norm is, and I don't think the average norm see the two types of riders as the same, especially since one type looks distinctly different, and is always acting up, while the other is pretty much always just cruising. Even if people SAY 'it was a motorcycle' , their mind recognises "oh well at least that guy on the harley isn't one fo those wheelie peopping idiots endangering everyone". Next time someone tells you a story about a motorcyclists, ask them if they think all motorcyclists pop wheelies and cut people off "even the harley riders?" and i think they'll tell you "not really" or "no it's just those guys on the japanese bikes" or something. that's my point From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 15 07:14:41 2004 From: Daniel To: DC Cycles Subject: Re: NYT Article: No Helmet=More Death Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 07:15:58 -0400 no helmet = more death = hey we're older with slower reflexes = let's not wear our helmets and go get a drink = duh = darwinism I dont' think riding helmetless is seductive at all... I think it really SUCKS.. bugs and grime on my skin SUCK my eyes irritated and watery and itchy.. SUCK the wind pulling on my face and eyes.. SUCK imagining my head slamming on the pavement at any speed WOULD REALLY SUCK... it's more like it's SUCKductive. (what's kinda funny also is peopel who wear goggles and a bandana over their nose/mouth.. if you want a full face helmet, just wear one, don't make a mock one trying to be cool with peer pressure) In my experience it's been a childish peer pressure "cool" to ride helmetless thing. If you stop and use your brain, you realize you'd rather protect it than try to dribble it like a basketball or crack it like an egg on the bare pavement. You've even got to FEEL safer when you're wearing it. You show me someone who says they feel safer not wearing their helmet, and I'll show you an unscientific (lying or in denial) moron who's speeding up his date with death. (which is fine, tha'ts what freedom is all about). I don't think helmets should be legally mandatory for experienced adults with M class liscenses, but I do think they should be highly encouraged, and mandatory for people with no motorcycle exposure and don't know the risks. I'm not trying to start any flame wars with this potential flame bait, but i think the same can be said for openface helmets... they just don't add safety compared to a full face helmet, and people wear them for the "looking cool" factor. Well to each their own. I'll be wearing my full face helmet and hope neither of our faces go sliding across the pavement, although I have slid on the chinbar and face sheild of my full face helmet, and am glad I was wearing one. On the other hand, maybe I would've gotten free plastic surgery and ended up looking like brad pitt after tons and tons of pain.. uhmm nevermind.. facial pain sucks, i'll stick to my full face helmet. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 15 07:20:17 2004 From: Daniel To: "Shigeru Honda" Cc: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: FS: Track day 6/19 (sat) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 07:21:37 -0400 Very tempting. On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 20:54:58 -0400, "Shigeru Honda" wrote: >Do'h, I forgot to cancel this event and now it's too late to cancel. >For sale for $100, a spot for NYSBC track day at Suumit JC (counter >clockwise, I think) this coming Saturday. > >I've never been to their track day so I don't really know how then run stuff >but should be fun. >http://www.nysportbikeclub.com/ > >Please email me or call me if anyone is interested. You are welcome to >forwad this email to anyone. > >thanks > >--------------------- >Shigeru Honda >301-602-9431 (Mobile) >703-535-8625 (home) > >98 SuperHawk (Street) >99 750 SS (Track #881) >02 MZ Skorpion Tour (Commuter) >91 CR80 (new toy) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 15 07:23:13 2004 From: Daniel To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: race track lines Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 07:24:40 -0400 I haven't been on the track yet, and my friends are starting to move it to the track.. and they were talking about apexing vs staying in your lane on the street.. which i'm sure we all understand (those of us who know what i'm talking about) anyway.. it got me to thinking.. on the track where rubber is laid down, which would offer better traction, the rubber laid down by others tires, or the pavement next to it? hmm ? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 15 11:32:08 2004 Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 11:32:05 -0400 From: Aaron Maurer To: DC Cycles Subject: Motorcycle chatroom saves a life Interesting read: http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/1149097/page/1/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/all/fpart/1/vc/1 And a follow-up article: http://www.rgj.com/news/stories/html/2004/06/13/73054.php -Aaron From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 15 11:40:48 2004 From: Sunil Doshi Subject: Re: Motorcycle chatroom saves a life Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 11:40:44 -0400 To: DC Cycles Absolutely Amazing. On Jun 15, 2004, at 11:32 AM, Aaron Maurer wrote: > Interesting read: > > http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/1149097/ > page/1/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/all/fpart/1/vc/1 > > And a follow-up article: > > http://www.rgj.com/news/stories/html/2004/06/13/73054.php > > -Aaron > > sunil http://widepipe.org/ride/ '03 Honda Shadow ACE 750 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 15 11:43:31 2004 Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 11:46:37 -0400 To: Daniel , DC Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: NYT Article: No Helmet=More Death At 07:15 AM 6/15/04 -0400, Daniel wrote: >In my experience it's been a childish peer pressure "cool" to ride >helmetless thing. Not in mine. On a recent ride to PA with about 17 bikes, only 3 or 4 ditched their helmets at the PA border. The rest kept their helmets on, despite them not being legally required. Only about three in the group were wearing full-face though. I was one of them on the way back (rode up with a 1/2 as a test). Peer pressure matters more to young people than the older ones I think. >I don't think helmets should be legally mandatory for >experienced adults with M class liscenses, but I do think they >should be highly encouraged, and mandatory for people with no >motorcycle exposure and don't know the risks. I agree with you. I've opposed helmet laws since they first got started, and even dropped Geico as my insurance company because they were spending money lobbying for them (and bragging about this)...but I've never ridden a motorcycle without some sort of helmet, and I don't plan to start, regardless of what the law says. >but i think the same can be said for openface helmets... they just >don't add safety compared to a full face helmet, and people wear them >for the "looking cool" factor. This I disagree with. Not the part about less protection, that's obvious, but about the reasons why people wear them. Have you ever ridden with one? If not, give it a try (on an appropriate ride, when you have enough experience that you aren't likely to drop the bike without help), and compare the experience to wearing a full face. There is a difference. To some, that difference is worth the decrease in protection. For high speed longer rides I prefer the full face (for some of the reasons you listed before). For cruising around the county, particularly in a large group, the half helmet is better. Not safer, just better. I'm sure there are some who do wear half-helmets for the "image", but that's not the only available reason. If you are a "knee dragger" kind of rider, or an all-weather commuter, full face is the only way to go. If you just want to go for a putt-putt in the countryside on a nice day with some friends, a 3/4 or 1/2 helmet is probably adequate, though less protective than a full-face, and the benefits may (or may not...up to you) outweigh the increased risk. Sort of like riding at all as opposed to sticking to a Hummer... -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 15 11:55:43 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 11:55:11 EDT Subject: Re: NYT Article: No Helmet=More Death To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/14/2004 6:15:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, amaurer@XXXXXX writes: > that ABS makes braking distances > longer for trained riders, My biggest problem with anti locks is that they are useless in corners, and that the manufacturers kind of gloss over that fact in the owners manuals. (Although the manual in the GL1800 is much clearer on the subject then the one in my ST1100) John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC 1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European 1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles 1976, Honda CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 15 12:00:06 2004 Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 09:00:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: NYT Article: No Helmet=More Death To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Explain more about this... Glenn --- PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > My biggest problem with anti locks is that they are > useless in corners, and > that the manufacturers kind of gloss over that fact > in the owners manuals. > (Although the manual in the GL1800 is much clearer > on the subject then the one in > my ST1100) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 15 12:06:55 2004 Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 12:06:53 -0400 From: Aaron Maurer To: "penguinbiker@XXXXXX" , DC Cycles Subject: Re: NYT Article: No Helmet=More Death True, but even with conventional brakes braking in the corners is best done with caution as well. ABS brakes don't change that calculus -- if you're locking up (or on the verge of locking up) your wheel in a corner, you're in trouble regardless. My thought (and this is a religious topic for some) is that if it doesn't hurt in the corners, and might help otherwise, might as well have them if I can. Of course, on the occasion I'm in gravel for a while, I also have the nice option of turning them off. On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 11:55:11 EDT, penguinbiker@XXXXXX wrote: > > In a message dated 6/14/2004 6:15:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > amaurer@XXXXXX writes: > > > that ABS makes braking distances > > longer for trained riders, > > My biggest problem with anti locks is that they are useless in corners, and > that the manufacturers kind of gloss over that fact in the owners manuals. > (Although the manual in the GL1800 is much clearer on the subject then the one in > my ST1100) > > John Walters (Long John) > PenguinBiker@XXXXXX > Up near DC > > 1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European > 1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles > 1976, Honda CR250M Motowhat racer > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 15 12:08:17 2004 Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 12:11:54 -0400 To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: NYT Article: No Helmet=More Death At 11:55 AM 6/15/04 EDT, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: >My biggest problem with anti locks is that they are useless in corners, and What do you mean? Hard braking in a corner without first straightening up is a bad idea ABS or not...unless you like to slide. What am I missing here? -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 15 12:30:18 2004 Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 12:30:07 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Motorcycle chatroom saves a life X-AOL-IP: 65.86.98.162 X-AOL-Language: english Wow. Looks like at one point he let the CareFlight dispatchers log in under his account to take over the communication. Quick and smart thinking. That second article does point out an interesting question. How do you contact 911 when all you have is a satellite internet connection? Scooter In a message dated 6/15/2004 11:32:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time, amaurer@XXXXXX writes: > > > Interesting read: > > http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/1 > 149097/page/1/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/all/fpart/1/vc/1 > > And a follow-up article: > > http://www.rgj.com/news/stories/html/2004/06/13/73054.php > > -Aaron From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 15 12:57:08 2004 Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 12:57:03 -0400 From: Aaron Maurer To: "scooterfzr@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Motorcycle chatroom saves a life Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX PLB? (Personal locator beacon - http://www.sarsat.noaa.gov/emerbcns.html ) "PLBs are portable units that operate much the same as EPIRBs or ELTs. These beacons are designed to be carried by an individual person instead of on a boat or aircraft. Unlike ELTs and some EPIRBs, they can only be activated manually and operate exclusively on 406 MHz. And like EPIRBs and ELTs all PLBs also have a built-in, low-power homing beacon that transmits on 121.5 MHz. This allows rescue forces to home in on a beacon once the 406 MHz satellite system has gotten them "in the ballpark" (about 2-3 miles).Some newer PLBs also allow GPS units to be integrated into the distress signal.This GPS-encoded position dramatically improves the location accuracy down to the 100-meter level)B…that's roughly the size of a football field! "In the United States, PLBs are now authorized for nationwide use. This authorization was granted by the FCC beginning July 1st, 2003. (Check out the 'What's New @ SARSAT' for more information on this recent development.) "Prior to July 1st, 2003 only residents of Alaska had been able to use PLBs. The Alaska PLB Program was set up to test the capabilities of PLBs and their potential impact on SAR resources. Since March of 1995, the experiment proved very successful and helped save nearly 400 lives while generating only a few false alerts. The success of the Alaska PLB program undoubtedly paved the way for nationwide usage of these devices. On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 12:30:07 -0400, scooterfzr@XXXXXX wrote: > > Wow. Looks like at one point he let the CareFlight dispatchers log in under his account to take over the communication. Quick and smart thinking. That second article does point out an interesting question. How do you contact 911 when all you have is a satellite internet connection? > > Scooter > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 15 13:14:08 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 13:13:54 EDT Subject: Re: NYT Article: No Helmet=More Death To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/15/2004 12:08:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, omni@XXXXXX writes: > What do you mean? Hard braking in a corner without first straightening up > is a bad idea ABS or not...unless you like to slide. What am I missing here? > My point is (and if you read any owners manual or many articles about ABS) _carefully_ you will find out that ABS simply will not prevent lock up if you are leaned over AT ALL! I am not talking about just at the edge of traction hauling ass, I am talking about casual riding around a corner and coming up on something unexpected panic braking. "ABS is to help you stop while traveling in a straight line" as my owners manual says. You do _not_ have to take my word for it, the information is out there, look it up for yourself, if you have ABS you _need_ the information. As for "not hurting" that would be true _IF_ and only if people with motorcycle anti lock brakes understood the limitation so that they were not counting on their ABS to save their asses when leaned over. So we have a system that "may have increased stopping distance under ideal conditions." "May have increased stopping distances under gravel, or uneven surfaces" and does not work at all in corners. Good system that! Yes ABS can save your ass. But it can also get your ass in real trouble if you do not understand its limitations. And there has been at best poor communication from the manufacturers about the limitations of ABS. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC 1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European 1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles 1976, Honda CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 15 13:23:05 2004 Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 13:22:49 -0400 To: "DC Cycles" From: Troutman Subject: key replacement Manassas Honda charges $10 for a new key. I just have to remove the ignition and get the key code number off of the back. Thanks Danny. It is still going to drive me crazy until I find it. I was out in the yard with a flashlight last night looking for a glint of metal. It is so freaking hot outside, I don't mind being stuck in the truck with AC today. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles. One who does not know the enemy but knows himself will sometimes win, sometimes lose. One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself will be in danger in every battle. - Sun Tzu From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 15 13:25:53 2004 Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 13:25:30 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Motorcycle chatroom saves a life X-AOL-IP: 65.86.98.162 X-AOL-Language: english Cool. Wonder how much one of those suckers costs? :-) Scooter In a message dated 6/15/2004 12:57:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, amaurer@XXXXXX writes: > > > PLB? (Personal locator beacon - http://www.sarsat.noaa.gov/emerbcns.html ) > > "PLBs are portable units that operate much the same as EPIRBs or ELTs. > These beacons are designed to be carried by an individual person > instead of on a boat or aircraft. Unlike ELTs and some EPIRBs, they > can only be activated manually and operate exclusively on 406 MHz. And > like EPIRBs and ELTs all PLBs also have a built-in, low-power homing > beacon that transmits on 121.5 MHz. This allows rescue forces to home > in on a beacon once the 406 MHz satellite system has gotten them "in > the ballpark" (about 2-3 miles).Some newer PLBs also allow GPS units > to be integrated into the distress signal.This GPS-encoded position > dramatically improves the location accuracy down to the 100-meter > level)B…that's roughly the size of a football field! > > "In the United States, PLBs are now authorized for nationwide use. > This authorization was granted by the FCC beginning July 1st, 2003. > (Check out the 'What's New @ SARSAT' for more information on this > recent development.) > > "Prior to July 1st, 2003 only residents of Alaska had been able to use > PLBs. The Alaska PLB Program was set up to test the capabilities of > PLBs and their potential impact on SAR resources. Since March of 1995, > the experiment proved very successful and helped save nearly 400 lives > while generating only a few false alerts. The success of the Alaska > PLB program undoubtedly paved the way for nationwide usage of these > devices. > > > > On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 12:30:07 -0400, scooterfzr@XXXXXX > wrote: > > > > Wow. Looks like at one point he let the CareFlight dispatchers log in under his account to take over the communication. Quick and smart thinking. That second article does point out an interesting question. How do you contact 911 when > all you have is a satellite internet connection? > > > > Scooter > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 15 13:39:19 2004 Subject: RE: PLB prices Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 13:39:07 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: , Froogle results: http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=PLB+satellite&btnG=Search+Froogle -----Original Message----- From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX [mailto:ScooterFZR@XXXXXX] Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 1:26 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Motorcycle chatroom saves a life Cool. Wonder how much one of those suckers costs? :-) Scooter From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 15 13:41:55 2004 Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 13:45:28 -0400 To: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Motorcycle chatroom saves a life Six or seven hundred bucks (http://www.acrelectronics.com/PLB/406plb.html). If you go out in (or over) the wilds much, think of it as life insurance you can actually *use*. ;-) Of course, the purchase price pales compared to the fines for using them when there's no real emergency... -- Mike B. At 01:25 PM 6/15/04 -0400, ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: >Cool. Wonder how much one of those suckers costs? :-) > >In a message dated 6/15/2004 12:57:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, amaurer@XXXXXX writes: >> >> PLB? (Personal locator beacon - http://www.sarsat.noaa.gov/emerbcns.html ) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 15 15:01:19 2004 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: NYT Article: No Helmet=More Death Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 15:01:10 -0400 > From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX > > So we have a system that "may have increased stopping distance under ideal > conditions." This supposed "disadvantage" of ABS breaks is pure, unadulterated horse shit, no disrespect intended. This has been hashed over many times, and for those who refuse to acknowledge reality nothing is going to change their mind, but I'll try anyway. The tests that show bikes being able to stop quicker without ABS than with (or with the ABS turned off vs. turned on) have all been done under controlled conditions: expert riders who KNOW they're going to be trying to stop as hard and quick as they can. They are prepared, they're on a clean, ideal surface, and they have some warning as to when to hit the brakes. Compare that to the real world: When you have to make a sudden, hard stop (read: panic stop) you are by definition NOT prepared. You're under a great deal of immediate stress which loads your body up with adrenaline, and makes fine muscle control far more difficult. And you're probably on a public road, facing conditions that may include slippery surfaces (oil or water), sand, salt, pebbles,leaves, potholes, other traffic, pedestrians, etc. And you're probably NOT an expert rider who has practiced, practiced, practiced. Under real world conditions, in a real emergency situation, I'll bet not 1 rider in a 100 (maybe 1 in a 1000) could stop a non-ABS bike faster than the same bike with ABS. "May have increased stopping distances under gravel, or uneven > surfaces" I certianly wouldn't put ABS on a dirt bike, and I rarely ride a street bike off-road. And if I'm riding on a dirt or gravel road on my street bike, I'm sure not going fast enough to worry about ABS problems. And if I hit a patch of gravel while braking hard on the road? Frankly, I'm a lot less likely to lock up a wheel and dump the bike with ABS than without it. Having the ability to stop a foot sooner won't do you much good if you're on your ass. >and does not work at all in corners. And, as others have pointed out, you can't brake hard when leaned over whether or not you have ABS. That argument is but a red herring. > Yes ABS can save your ass. But it can also get your ass in real trouble if > you do not understand its limitations. And there has been at best poor > communication from the manufacturers about the limitations of ABS. > I disagree. Maybe in 1% of real world situations you're going to be worse off with ABS than without it. Even on loose surfaces, in a curve, in all the places where ABS is "weak" you're not really any worse off than you'd be without it. And in 99% of real world situations, you're better off. Locking your brakes is about the worst thing you can do in an emergency, and very few street riders are as skilled as they think they are. Ask me about linked braking systems and I'll give you a different answer, but I have no doubt that 99% of street riders will be better off 99% of the time with ABS. Actually, there may be an exception: if you mostly ride a bike with ABS, and get used to it, switching to a bike without ABS could be a problem. But ABS should be a last resort, not an excuse for lousy technique. Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" '02 919 I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 15 15:52:04 2004 Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 15:55:47 -0400 To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Re: NYT Article: No Helmet=More Death At 03:01 PM 6/15/04 -0400, Bob Meyer wrote: > >> From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX > >> >> So we have a system that "may have increased stopping distance under ideal >> conditions." > >This supposed "disadvantage" of ABS breaks is pure, unadulterated horse shit, >no disrespect intended. This has been hashed over many times, and for those >who refuse to acknowledge reality nothing is going to change their mind, but >I'll try anyway. You know, between you agreeing with me, and me agreeing with you, this is starting to become a habit...I think this is the third time in a week! ;-) ABS just prevents locking wheels so that they don't turn. That's it. When the wheel stops turning (or gets close to that maybe in some systems), it backs off the brake pressure to let it keep moving to prevent a skid. The only time when ABS would be a problem is if you *want* to lock a wheel for some reason...and outside of stunts I can't think of any reasons why you'd want to do that. >salt, pebbles,leaves, potholes, other traffic, pedestrians, etc. And you're >probably NOT an expert rider who has practiced, practiced, practiced. Airline pilots *are* trained heavily, and *do* get frequent practice to maintain their skills...and big jets usually have ABS systems to prevent locking wheels in emergency situations. Even highly skilled pilots are prone to that when things get tense. If nothing else, it's one less thing to have to worry about...just clamp the brakes hard, and let the ABS modulate things to stop you as quickly as is possible under the circumstances. The alternative is to spend attention monitoring skidding and manually modulate pressure...probably using less than max to avoid a skid, and thus increasing stopping distance. ABS systems have faster reflexes than humans if they are designed properly and in working order. >> Yes ABS can save your ass. But it can also get your ass in real trouble if >> you do not understand its limitations. And there has been at best poor >> communication from the manufacturers about the limitations of ABS. >> >I disagree. Maybe in 1% of real world situations you're going to be worse off >with ABS than without it. I agree with PenguinBiker on this point (I think...), though I don't disagree with you...I think you are talking about different things here. Lots of people think ABS is magic, and so they don't take precautions the way they would if they didn't have it, and therefore let situations develop that even ABS can't get them out of. There are limitations, same as with any other braking system, and you should always understand the limitations of your vehicle, whatever they might be. Other people don't know what ABS is, how it works or anything else about it, and so when it kicks in, they are surprised...and a panic stop is no place for a distraction like that. There was a lady who called Click and Clack to ask about a "vibration" in her brake pedal when she stopped hard...they had to explain to her what ABS was (after a few questions to determine what the "problem" was). That sounds like a lack of communication from the manufacturer about the system in her case anyway (though it was probably her fault there was a communications gap...I doubt she read her owner's manual). >Ask me about linked braking systems and I'll give you a different answer, but >I have no doubt that 99% of street riders will be better off 99% of the time >with ABS. It would depend how they were linked for me to have a problem. If they were "normal" except when moving fast and braking hard, it might be an improvement. >But ABS should be a last resort, not an excuse for lousy technique. I agree. In most cases (rough roads an exception) I consider the ABS in my Jeep cutting in as a signal that I've just screwed up in some way. It's only happened a few times, mostly in snow, but it usually means I'm not paying enough attention to the road surface and/or where I'm likely to need to stop. The buzzy pedal is the Jeep's way of saying, "Hey! Pay attention!!" -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 15 16:04:31 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 16:04:14 EDT Subject: Re: NYT Article: No Helmet=More Death To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/15/2004 3:01:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rmeyer9@XXXXXX writes: > This supposed "disadvantage" of ABS breaks is pure, unadulterated horse shit, > Everything I said is in the owners manual or available through reliable sources. It is not horse shit and it can get you in trouble if not understood. That is all I said. Automotive anti lock brakes DO WORK IN CORNERS, if you are in a turn and slam on the brakes your cars wheels will not lock up and you can maintain control. That is NOT TRUE on a motorcycle. Assuming it is will get riders into trouble. I do not care if you believe me, all anyone has to do is a little research for themselves. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC 1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European 1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles 1976, Honda CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 15 16:12:13 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 16:12:02 EDT Subject: Re: NYT Article: No Helmet=More Death To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/15/2004 3:01:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rmeyer9@XXXXXX writes: > When you have to make a sudden, hard stop (read: panic stop) you are by > definition NOT prepared. I have made many, many, many sudden hard stops without panicking, and when that happens I want to be able to stop in the shortest distance. I agree with you that in a PANIC stop, _assuming you are traveling in a straight line_ you are better off with anti lock brakes. That is why I simply listed the disadvantages with the caveat that my problem was the manufactures failure to communicate these problems to the riding public. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC 1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European 1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles 1976, Honda CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 15 16:22:01 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 16:21:48 EDT Subject: Re: NYT Article: No Helmet=More Death To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/15/2004 3:52:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, omni@XXXXXX writes: > Lots of people think ABS is magic, That is all I am trying to say. Not as well as I could perhaps, but the bottom line. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 15 16:46:07 2004 Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 16:49:49 -0400 To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: NYT Article: No Helmet=More Death At 04:04 PM 6/15/04 EDT, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: >Automotive anti lock brakes DO WORK IN CORNERS, if you are in a turn and slam >on the brakes your cars wheels will not lock up and you can maintain control. Yep. >That is NOT TRUE on a motorcycle. Assuming it is will get riders into trouble. Slamming on your brakes in a corner on a bike will get you in trouble *without* ABS. You need to straighten up and *then* brake (like they teach in the MSF ERC course). I think that was Bob's point...ABS not helping doesn't hurt any...you aren't any worse off with it than without it. Your point that there are limitations and these should be understood is valid too of course...expecting it to help when it won't is not good. Why won't they work when leaned over? Seems to me that there's no reason they *can't* work when leaned, so it must be an intentional design choice. Anyone know the reason for it? -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 15 16:59:42 2004 From: "Perry Coleman" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: NYT Article: No Helmet=More Death Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 16:48:19 -0400 I thought the main purpose of ABS in a car was to allow you maintain steering control while braking at the limits. If you're skidding, you're not steeing much anymore. It does not necessarily let you stop in less distance. How that applies to motorcycles, I'm not so sure. Perry >From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: NYT Article: No Helmet=More Death >Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 16:04:14 EDT > >In a message dated 6/15/2004 3:01:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >rmeyer9@XXXXXX writes: > > > This supposed "disadvantage" of ABS breaks is pure, unadulterated horse >shit, > > >Everything I said is in the owners manual or available through reliable >sources. It is not horse shit and it can get you in trouble if not >understood. >That is all I said. > >Automotive anti lock brakes DO WORK IN CORNERS, if you are in a turn and >slam >on the brakes your cars wheels will not lock up and you can maintain >control. >That is NOT TRUE on a motorcycle. Assuming it is will get riders into >trouble. >I do not care if you believe me, all anyone has to do is a little research >for themselves. > > > > >John Walters (Long John) >PenguinBiker@XXXXXX >Up near DC > >1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European >1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles >1976, Honda CR250M Motowhat racer > _________________________________________________________________ Looking to buy a house? Get informed with the Home Buying Guide from MSN House & Home. http://coldwellbanker.msn.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 15 17:06:40 2004 Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 17:06:36 -0400 From: Aaron Maurer To: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: NYT Article: No Helmet=More Death Cc: penguinbiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX (I told y'all this is a religious topic for some.) Mike, What John and Bob in heatedly agreement about is that ABS on motorcycles works in a turn, it just doesn't "work" in a turn. That is, the technology works. If the sensors detect that the wheel is skidding (or on the threshold of), it releases the brakes to stop a skid. However, the dynamic problem a motorcycle has when braking in a turn isn't solved by that technology. John correctly points out that in a car -- an inherently stable vehicle with four wheels that steers by directing the front wheels in the direction of travel desired -- ABS allows the wheels to turn, and thus allows the car to steer, hopefully staying on the road, avoiding the obstacle, etc. On a bike -- an inherently unstable two-wheeled vehicle, which depends on leaning for steering (this is very simplified -- and another quasi-religious topic -- but essentially correct), the steering is still impacted even if ABS activates. Aaron On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 16:49:49 -0400, Mike Bartman wrote: > > At 04:04 PM 6/15/04 EDT, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > > >Automotive anti lock brakes DO WORK IN CORNERS, if you are in a turn and > slam > >on the brakes your cars wheels will not lock up and you can maintain control. > > Yep. > > >That is NOT TRUE on a motorcycle. Assuming it is will get riders into > trouble. > > Slamming on your brakes in a corner on a bike will get you in trouble > *without* ABS. You need to straighten up and *then* brake (like they teach > in the MSF ERC course). I think that was Bob's point...ABS not helping > doesn't hurt any...you aren't any worse off with it than without it. Your > point that there are limitations and these should be understood is valid > too of course...expecting it to help when it won't is not good. > > Why won't they work when leaned over? Seems to me that there's no reason > they *can't* work when leaned, so it must be an intentional design choice. > Anyone know the reason for it? > > > > > -- Mike B. > > '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) > > Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes > is better. > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 15 17:14:20 2004 Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 17:14:08 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: PLB prices X-AOL-IP: 65.86.98.162 X-AOL-Language: english Sure. I'll take two. :-) Scooter In a message dated 6/15/2004 1:39:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Robert.Verde@XXXXXX writes: > > > Froogle results: > http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=PLB+satellite&btnG=Search+Froogle > > -----Original Message----- > From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX [mailto:ScooterFZR@XXXXXX] > Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 1:26 PM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Motorcycle chatroom saves a life > > > Cool. Wonder how much one of those suckers costs? :-) > > Scooter From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 15 17:49:13 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 17:49:04 EDT Subject: Re: NYT Article: No Helmet=More Death To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/15/2004 5:06:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, amaurer@XXXXXX writes: > That is, the technology works. If the sensors detect that the wheel > is skidding (or on the threshold of), it releases the brakes to stop a > skid. > > However, the dynamic problem a motorcycle has when braking in a turn > isn't solved by that technology. Thank you. I really never meant to get into a technical discussion about anti lock brakes. What I want people to do is be aware of the limitations of ABS, something few are aware of and that is the _manufacturers_ fault. The very fact that we can sustain an argument about it demonstrates my point. Sorry if I have offended anyone, it is just one of my "hot buttons." and has been since motorcycle ABS was introduced by BMW. And I have been keeping close track of it since then. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC 1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European 1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles 1976, Honda CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 15 17:52:40 2004 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: NYT Article: No Helmet=More Death Content-ID: <30396.1087336358.1@XXXXXX> Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 17:52:38 -0400 From: harry@XXXXXX (Perry says): >I thought the main purpose of ABS in a car was to allow you maintain >steering control while braking at the limits. If you're skidding, >you're not steeing much anymore. It does not necessarily let you >stop in less distance. Per high school physics, for the shortest stopping distance, you should apply the maximal braking force just shy of locking up the wheels. Once you increase braking force to the point where the tires start to slide on the road, the force of friction drops, and your rate of deceleration drops. As the high school physics teacher might say, the coefficient of static friction (stuff gripping against other stuff) is higher than the coefficient of dynamic friction (stuff sliding against other stuff). So ABS _does_ shorten your stopping distance vs. a "panic" lock-up-the-wheels screeching stop. (Aaron says): >On a bike -- an inherently unstable two-wheeled vehicle, which depends >on leaning for steering (this is very simplified -- and another >quasi-religious topic -- but essentially correct), the steering is >still impacted even if ABS activates. Henh? To me, ABS is like me having the ability to always modulate my braking pressure to ensure that I never apply excessive force, causing my tires to slide. How is this not a win? Can anybody point to a reference that describes the issue? -harry From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 15 18:14:00 2004 Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 18:13:57 -0400 From: Aaron Maurer To: "harry@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: NYT Article: No Helmet=More Death Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Harry, It generally is a win not to have your tires skid. Unfortunately, if you're exceeding the lateral skidding threshold of the tires through the dynamics of the turning (leaning) forces on the motorcycle combined with the braking forces, the fact that your wheel technically doesn't "lock" doesn't mean you don't crash. ============= The best scientific reference I've found to describe motorcycle dynamics is at: http://pdmec4.mecc.unipd.it/~cos/DINAMOTO/indexmoto.html A recent NHTSA report on ABS and LBS: http://www.unece.org/trans/main/wp29/wp29wgs/wp29grrf/grrfinf/51/grrf5120.ppt Another link: http://ibmwr.org/prodreview/abstests.html (old - 1992) On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 17:52:38 -0400, harry@XXXXXX wrote: > > Henh? To me, ABS is like me having the ability to always modulate > my braking pressure to ensure that I never apply excessive force, > causing my tires to slide. How is this not a win? > > Can anybody point to a reference that describes the issue? > -harry > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 15 19:02:22 2004 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: NYT Article: No Helmet=More Death Content-ID: <13443.1087340540.1@XXXXXX> Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 19:02:20 -0400 From: harry@XXXXXX >Unfortunately, if you're exceeding the lateral skidding threshold of >the tires through the dynamics of the turning (leaning) forces on the >motorcycle combined with the braking forces, the fact that your wheel >technically doesn't "lock" doesn't mean you don't crash. Okay, so the way I'm reading this, then, is that in a turn part of your traction "budget" has been accounted for in keeping that bike moving along a curved path (i.e. a centripetal force, perpendicular to the bike's path), with only a partial remainder available for slowing the bike down. In this scenario, applying too much brake pressure could lead to the tires sliding, but to the outside of the turn, without the wheels actually locking up. In short, in a turn you need to limit your braking pressure to a level lower than the one where ABS will decide to "kick in". But unless I've gotten myself lost (a possibility), then it seems that this criticism is that "a naive implementation of ABS that only monitors wheel speed cannot achieve the optimal stopping distance in the corner, which requires modulating the braking pressure to the point just before the tire loses traction. A more perfect implementation would take cornering into consideration and limit braking pressure to a level below that which yields wheel lock-up". So if the rider stupidly grabs all the brakes he can in a turn, then ABS will not save his sorry ass. But it also seems clear that the presence of ABS in this scenario does no harm, it's just that its efforts are not enough to save the rider from himself in this case. -harry p.s. Of course, if all this is "the point", then it seems like it should apply equally well to cars... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 15 19:11:05 2004 Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 19:14:44 -0400 To: Aaron Maurer From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: NYT Article: No Helmet=More Death Cc: penguinbiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 05:06 PM 6/15/04 -0400, Aaron Maurer wrote: > >What John and Bob in heatedly agreement about is that ABS on >motorcycles works in a turn, it just doesn't "work" in a turn. Ok, I understand now about the ABS part of it...but what is the real problem that keeps it from "working"? Is it the general problem of braking in a turn on a bike? If so, what, exactly, is that problem? Is it a traction issue...the bike is close to traction limits to start with in a turn, so any extra force, from braking for instance, exceeds the limit and you go down? I know I've occasionally used brakes in a turn...just carefully and not when anywhere near traction limits for my bike, and it's worked out ok. Is it a force vector issue...the force vector in a turn is pointed down and to the outside of the curve if "drifting", and slightly ahead if (properly) accelerating, and braking shifts it rearward, perhaps unloading the front tire too much, reducing traction and resulting in a fall or a sort of "understeer" problem? Both of these? Neither? And if the problem with ABS in a turn isn't related to that problem, what is the problem with it that keeps it from "working"? Something to do with the pulsed nature of the braking force when ABS is active? >On a bike -- an inherently unstable two-wheeled vehicle, which depends >on leaning for steering (this is very simplified -- and another >quasi-religious topic -- but essentially correct), the steering is >still impacted even if ABS activates. We can get into the "why bikes turn" thing later...I suspect it will be like the "why do airplanes fly" arguments that pilots have sometimes. It's not as obvious as some think from elementary school science class...but this isn't a flying forum, so if you are curious, contact me off list about that part. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 15 19:12:02 2004 Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 19:03:01 -0400 To: "Perry Coleman" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: NYT Article: No Helmet=More Death At 04:48 PM 6/15/04 -0400, Perry Coleman wrote: >I thought the main purpose of ABS in a car was to allow you maintain >steering control while braking at the limits. If you're skidding, you're not >steeing much anymore. It does not necessarily let you stop in less distance. It can help you stop sooner under a lot of circumstances. If the wheels are locked, and the vehicle is sliding, the tires are not turning. Two reasons why this can be bad for stopping distance: If there's water (or something similar) under them, it will tend to build up, lift the vehicle and reduce braking effect to near nil (hydroplaning). With rotating tires and a good tread design, you are more likely to dissipate the water, and reduce this effect. If the tires get hot enough (usually on dry pavement), the rubber will vaporize and give you an effect very much like hydroplaning. This is called "reverted rubber hydroplaning" in the FAA manuals (unless my memory is faulty on this). There may be other situations where rotating tires are better for stopping than stopped ones, but those are the ones that come to mind immediately. I don't know how susceptible bike tires are to either of these though. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 15 19:19:26 2004 Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 18:19:21 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Sean Jordan Subject: Re: NYT Article: No Helmet=More Death At 06:03 PM 6/15/2004, Bartman wrote: >If the tires get hot enough (usually on dry pavement), the rubber will >vaporize and give you an effect very much like hydroplaning. This is >called "reverted rubber hydroplaning" in the FAA manuals (unless my memory >is faulty on this). Don't airplane tires support a much greater load per square inch of contact patch than a motorcycle? Perhaps certain phenomena that occur with airplanes may not happen with motorcycles - apples and oranges and all that. - Sean Jordan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 16 00:46:47 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 00:46:31 EDT Subject: Re: NYT Article: No Helmet=More Death To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/15/2004 6:14:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, amaurer@XXXXXX writes: > The best scientific reference I've found to describe motorcycle dynamics is > at: Thank You Aaron! It takes a little reading but everything is there. I especially liked. "In A Turn Unfortunately, anti-lock brakes are not very effective while cornering. Ask an engineer and he'll get this far-away, glassy look and start talking about tire slip ratios, lean angles and traction coefficients (No Fault Braking A Real-World Comparison of ABS Systems By Michael Kneebone.) Hard to explain, but then so is gravity and we all believe in that... Thanks again for valuable information (already bookmarked for future reference.) John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 16 01:01:58 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 01:01:46 EDT Subject: Re: CAGE ABS To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/15/2004 5:52:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, harry@XXXXXX writes: > >I thought the main purpose of ABS in a car was to allow you maintain > >steering control while braking at the limits. That is a rather neat re-writing of history. When ABS was first introduced in cars the big selling point was that it would make the car stop in a shorter distance. When the CHP complained that it stopping distances were longer the manufacturers told them it was because the cops did not know how to use the ABS. I they would just stop "pumping' their brakes and "confusing" the computer they would out stop non ABS cars. It was only after it was proven beyond the shadow of a doubt that ABS would not stop in a shorter distance then non ABS cars (admittedly with expert drivers) that it became about control. Also: > Henh? To me, ABS is like me having the ability to always modulate > my braking pressure to ensure that I never apply excessive force, > causing my tires to slide. How is this not a win? It is a complex issue, the problem has to do with the way a motorcycle turns and the way it shares traction loads with steering and braking. To put it simply a motorcycle in a turn _shares_ braking and steering loads as a result the tire can still be turning thereby _never_ engaging the ABS, while the traction is overcome and the wheel slides out from under you. Anyone who has taken an MSF ERC has spent a lot of time discussing traction sharing. If you remember the "traction pie" you should understand how bikes share the traction load and with a little thought, how you can overcome control traction with the wheel still turning. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC 1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European 1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles 1976, Honda CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 16 01:10:47 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 01:10:37 EDT Subject: Re: NYT Article: No Helmet=More Death To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX And lord help us there is still the fact that a sport/lightweight bike with ABS can still "nosie" right on over. (A magazine tester scared the crap out of himself that way once, grabbed a big old handful of front brake to "test" the ABS and damn near went ass over teakettle.) John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 16 10:25:29 2004 Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 07:24:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Ray Subject: Carb Theory To: OCC , DC Cycles I read this elsewhere, and thought it was worth passing along. I now feel much more confident in working on my carbs. ************** Since I have taken the morning off, I have a bit more time than usual to help you. And what I have been recently noticing is that a lot of you seem to be having difficulties in getting the various carb jets / engine matches to work well together. And I now think that maybe we should all pause and take a step backwards. Let's review just exactly how/why carbs work. Having a more in depth understanding of the basics of carb design and function will likely make it far easier to get them set up correctly. The basic secret of carb function is that inside each carb are thousands of tiny gnomes; each with a small bucket. As you open the throttle, more of these gnomes are allowed out of their house and into the float bowl, where they fill the buckets and climb up the carb's passages to the intake, where they empty their buckets into the air stream. But, if you don't ride the bike for a while, bad things can happen. Tiny bats take up residence in the chambers of the carb, and before long the passages are plugged up with guano. This creates a gnome traffic jam, and so not enough bucketfuls of fuel can get to the engine. If it gets bad enough, the gnomes simply give up and go take a nap. The engine won't run at all at this point. Sometimes you'll have a single dedicated gnome still on the job, which is why the bike will occasionally fire as the gnome tosses his lone bucket load down the intake. There has been some research into using tiny dwarves in modern carbs. The advantage is that unlike gnomes, dwarves are miners and can often re-open a clogged passage. Unfortunately, dwarves have a natural fear of earthquakes, as any miner should. In recent tests, the engine vibrations caused the dwarves to evacuate the Harley Davidson test vehicle and make a beeline for the nearest BMW dealership. Sadly, BMW's are fuel injected and so the poor dwarves met an unfortunate end in the rollers of a Bosch fuel pump. Other carb problems can also occur. If the level of fuel in the float bowl rises too high, it will wipe out the Section 8 gnome housing in the lower parts of the carb. The more affluent gnomes build their homes in the diaphragm chamber, and so are unaffected. This is why the bike is said to be "running rich". If the fuel bowl level drops, then the gnomes have to walk farther to get a bucketful of fuel. This means less fuel gets to the engine. Because the gnomes get quite a workout from this additional distance, this condition is known as "running lean". The use of the device known only as the 'choke' has finally been banned by PETG (People for the Ethical Treatment of Gnomes) and replaced by a new carb circuit that simply allows more gnomes to carry fuel at once when the engine needs to start or warm up. In the interests of decorum, I prefer not to explain how the 'choke' operated. You would rather not know anyway. So, that's how a carburetor works. You may wish to join us here next week for electricity 101, or "How your bike creates cold fusion inside the stator, and why the government doesn't want you to know about it." So, now you know the Ressssssst of The Story. No more whining about jet sizing! From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 16 10:59:52 2004 Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 11:03:42 -0400 To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: CAGE ABS At 01:01 AM 6/16/04 EDT, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: >Anyone who has taken an MSF ERC has spent a lot of time discussing traction >sharing. Not necessarily...it never came up in the course I took. It was almost entirely spent on the bikes, with only short discussions during breaks, and that particular issue wasn't raised...though they did explain that drunk=impaired, as if anyone over the age of 3 hasn't had that drummed into them enough already. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 16 10:59:54 2004 Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 10:59:16 -0400 To: Sean Jordan , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: NYT Article: No Helmet=More Death At 06:19 PM 6/15/04 -0500, Sean Jordan wrote: >At 06:03 PM 6/15/2004, Bartman wrote: > >>If the tires get hot enough (usually on dry pavement), the rubber will >>vaporize and give you an effect very much like hydroplaning. This is >>called "reverted rubber hydroplaning" in the FAA manuals (unless my memory >>is faulty on this). > >Don't airplane tires support a much greater load per square inch of contact >patch than a motorcycle? Depends on the plane. A Cessna 172 for instance weighs about 2500lbs, and has 3 wheels. Each of the main tires has a contact patch about 5-6" across, and about the same front to back, or about 25 square inches each. The nose tire is about half that. Total contact patch area would be about 60 square inches or so, or about 41 lbs/sq inch (this will vary with tire inflation, temperature, load in the plane, etc., but it's ballpark close). My bike weighs about 1200 lbs fully gassed up with me on it in full gear. Two contact patches, front about 5x2", rear about 5x3", or 25 square inches total, or 48 lbs/sq in. Allowing for errors of measurement, I'd say they are pretty much the same loading. Tire pressures are only a few lbs different (about 8-10 lbs/sq in higher for the bike), so that's not surprising. Airliners are much higher than this, and run much higher pressures too. >Perhaps certain phenomena that occur with >airplanes may not happen with motorcycles - apples and oranges and all that. Somewhat, yes. For instance, the above loadings are when both are stopped. When the plane is moving, it's likely that the loading will be much lower...and eventually zero if it goes fast enough and increases angle of attack a bit. The bike's loading will go up substantially in a turn. On the other hand, both sorts of tires are made of the same stuff, more or less...synthetic rubber...and I'd expect the same sort of physics to apply to the substance when either is being scrapped across pavement at high speed. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 16 11:11:07 2004 From: Daniel To: Mike Bartman Cc: DC Cycles Subject: Re: NYT Article: No Helmet=More Death Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 11:12:19 -0400 >This I disagree with. Not the part about less protection, that's obvious, >but about the reasons why people wear them. Have you ever ridden with one? I've ridden with no helmet... and i've ridden and fallen in a full face helmet at a low MPH and slid on the chinbar. Thank goodness I had a full face helmet on.. I really don't think anyone should test their damagability threshhold of their face/jaw/teeth/lips vs the pavement at any speed low or high.. a half helmet is false security. > If not, give it a try (on an appropriate ride, when you have enough >experience that you aren't likely to drop the bike without help), and >compare the experience to wearing a full face. There is a difference. To THere is a big difference.. and a FF helmet is better.. a helmet is after all, a safety device, first and foremost, and that is what it shoudl be compared as, and which is better. >some, that difference is worth the decrease in protection. For high speed Yep.. it's really worth sanding your teeth with the grit of the road, just so you can feel the breeze on them... >longer rides I prefer the full face (for some of the reasons you listed >before). For cruising around the county, particularly in a large group, >the half helmet is better. Not safer, just better. better how? I equate safer with better. A less safe anything, is not better. "perceptively more fun" maybe, but not better. Like a MC is more fun than a hummer.. but i can' t say it's better. More efficient... but not better. >I'm sure there are some who do wear half-helmets for the "image", but >that's not the only available reason. it's half ass protection.. and half ass protection is an oxy moron. >If you are a "knee dragger" kind of rider, or an all-weather commuter, full >face is the only way to go. If you just want to go for a putt-putt in the >countryside on a nice day with some friends, a 3/4 or 1/2 helmet is >probably adequate, though less protective than a full-face, and the in the country side i'd rather wear a full face helmet.. damn furry oil slicks... or even riding with friends.. can be dangerous.. "probably adequate" is NOT a catagory I would want to place the safety of my head/face in. >benefits may (or may not...up to you) outweigh the increased risk. Sort of >like riding at all as opposed to sticking to a Hummer... what are the benefits? the bugs that scrub your skin.. your buddies exhaust soot in your pours ? the ability to yell to your buddy "hey dude this is cool" over our loud exhaust pipes? I'd rather have more safety over my face.. now tha'ts a benefit. The only time i can justify no helmet or a half helmet is: 1. sitting in heavy city traffic 2. passenger helmet where you might calmly give someone a ride to the end of the street, but not usually ride passengers From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 16 11:19:06 2004 From: purdyjeremy@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, ScooterFZR@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Motorcycle chatroom saves a life Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 15:18:44 +0000 X-Authenticated-Sender: cHVyZHlqZXJlbXlAYXR0Lm5ldA== Scooter writes: >Wow. Looks like at one point he let the CareFlight dispatchers log in under his >account to take over the communication. Quick and smart thinking. That second >article does point out an interesting question. How do you contact 911 when all >you have is a satellite internet connection? There are phone over internet services (like Vonage.com) which I assume would work over satellite. The PLB is cool for people who are out in the wilderness a lot. For a permanent location like this ranch, I would think they would sign up for a similar type of service. I personally can't imagine a ranch like this which bills itself as a remote tourist destination (I assume a guest ranch is a tourist destination) not having any way to contact the outside world in an emergency. They said radios don't work, but if a HAM radio operator in PA can talk with another HAM operator in Brazil (I've been present for one of those conversations) I would think that there would be a way to have a similar system available in Nevada. Unless they were at the bottom of a valley or something. It's a great story. It's just that the whole thing seems a little odd to me for some reason. -- Jeremy Purdy '00 Yamaha V-Star From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 16 11:41:25 2004 Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 11:44:03 -0400 To: Daniel From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: NYT Article: No Helmet=More Death Cc: DC Cycles At 11:12 AM 6/16/04 -0400, Daniel wrote: >THere is a big difference.. and a FF helmet is better.. a helmet is >after all, a safety device, first and foremost, and that is what it >shoudl be compared as, and which is better. It's also a ticket avoidance device for those who aren't as safety-oriented as you are. In that light any DOT-approved helmet is the same. It's also a fashion statement...and which is better depends on whose opinion you care about. It's also a part of riding for most of us, and in that light which is better depends on why you ride. For me, which is better varies, so I have a full-face and a half, and I'm considering a 3/4 with a face shield too, as a compromise solution. You say that safety is your primary concern, and safer is better. In that case, why do you ride at all??? Cages are safer than bikes, so get off your bike and into a cage. Preferably a large Mac or Peterbilt semi, but a Hummer might be as safe in general (smaller target, more maneuverable, and almost as tough compared to the average car). Since you are happy to choose a less-than-safest option in vehicles, why do you have problems understanding why some people choose less-than-safest options in helmets? It's the same sort of thing...they perceive benefits that outweigh the increased risks...same as you do when you pick two wheels over 10...or even 4. >>benefits may (or may not...up to you) outweigh the increased risk. > > what are the benefits? the bugs that scrub your skin.. your "If I have to explain it, you wouldn't understand." >I'd rather have more safety over my face.. now tha'ts a benefit. So go for it. I'd never try to stop someone from wearing a full-face helmet if that's what they want. I wear one myself more often than not. I just don't condemn/criticize those who choose other types some, or all, of the time like you do. When the "air-bag" riding suits come out, you can get one of those to wear over your full one-piece armored leather riding suit with built-in EPIRB, flare dispenser and flashing strobe with accelerometer triggering. After all, such a setup would be safer in the event of a crash than whatever you are wearing now, so I'm sure you will be first in line to buy one, right? -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 16 12:32:28 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 12:32:10 EDT Subject: Re: CAGE ABS To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/16/2004 11:00:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time, omni@XXXXXX writes: > >Anyone who has taken an MSF ERC has spent a lot of time discussing traction > >sharing. > > Not necessarily...it never came up in the course I took. Was it the ERC???? The _E_xperienced _R_ider _C_ourse has a lot of discussion of traction control (including video) built in, in fact all told it probably consumes the largest amount of time. It uses a traction "pie" (graph) to illustrate how traction is shared by drive, turn, braking and control. I have not seen the replacement for the ERC as yet, but I cannot imagine they discarded it totally. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 16 12:48:14 2004 Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 12:48:12 -0400 From: Sunil Doshi To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: CAGE ABS I took the ERC course about a month ago. They did have the traction "pie" section of the course, but it wasn't more than a minute long. I'm not sure I got more than a rudimentary understanding of it. On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 12:32:10 EDT, penguinbiker@XXXXXX wrote: > Was it the ERC???? > The _E_xperienced _R_ider _C_ourse has a lot of discussion of traction > control (including video) built in, in fact all told it probably consumes the > largest amount of time. It uses a traction "pie" (graph) to illustrate how traction > is shared by drive, turn, braking and control. I have not seen the replacement > for the ERC as yet, but I cannot imagine they discarded it totally. > > John. > PenguinBiker@XXXXXX > > -- sunil http://widepipe.org/ride/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 16 12:57:49 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 12:57:31 EDT Subject: Re: CAGE ABS To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/16/2004 12:48:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, sunil.doshi@XXXXXX writes: > I took the ERC course about a month ago. They did have the traction > "pie" section of the course, but it wasn't more than a minute long. > I'm not sure I got more than a rudimentary understanding of it. Hmmm. Do not know if I like that. I suppose if you are not into technical shituff it could be considered a bit dry and boring. MSF is also trying to get into more of a "self taught" adult education sort of thing and away from lecture. Is it in handouts or a handbook? I mean in the end the only control surface you have with a motorcycle is the contact patch, it is all about traction and controlling traction. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 16 13:35:22 2004 From: To: Subject: Hi all Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 13:35:14 -0400 Sitting here in a hotel in Milano, Italy. Turned the rental bike in a few hours ago. about 5,100KM over 17 days. Doesn't sound like much, but a LOT of it was in 2nd gear. Weather absolutely SUCKED. Temps in the 30-40 degree F range for a lot of it. Rain, fog, sleet, clouds (they are NOT fluffy inside), and three snow events just to put the cherry on top. Still, a bad day riding is better than a good one in the office. Back home tomorrow Michael J From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 16 13:45:22 2004 Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 13:49:07 -0400 To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: CAGE ABS At 12:32 PM 6/16/04 EDT, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: >In a message dated 6/16/2004 11:00:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >omni@XXXXXX writes: > >> >Anyone who has taken an MSF ERC has spent a lot of time discussing >traction >> >sharing. >> >> Not necessarily...it never came up in the course I took. > >Was it the ERC???? Yes. Given at the Frederick MVA last month. Says, "Experienced RiderCourse COMPLETION CARD" on the completion certificate, and above "Sponsor" it says "Motorcycle Safety". There's some text that explains that the course meets requirements of the MSF, and the address, and that it isn't a license to ride, and a sort of serial number starting with a "E". >The _E_xperienced _R_ider _C_ourse has a lot of discussion of traction >control (including video) built in, in fact all told it probably consumes the >largest amount of time. It uses a traction "pie" (graph) to illustrate how traction >is shared by drive, turn, braking and control. Not the one I took. Apparently things have changed, or there's some variation. >I have not seen the replacement >for the ERC as yet, but I cannot imagine they discarded it totally. The one I took had a booklet that was handed out (and collected at the end of the course) that had info in it about various things...though the thing it hit hardest (on almost every page) was that as you get older things change (duh!). There was no set-aside time to read it though, and only a few sections were talked about by the instructors, and that was briefly during the on-course breaks, as I said. There was no video, no discussion of traction control (other than the "don't brake in a turn" stuff (which was pretty much limited to that), and practice doing emergency stops in a turn...straighten up and stop fast), and most of the time was spent riding various exercises or taking the final exam (which was about five of the things done as exercises earlier. Total time was about 6 hours. I plan to take it again when the chance comes up, so I can see if it varies from time to time or not. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 16 13:47:03 2004 Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 13:47:02 -0400 From: Sunil Doshi To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: CAGE ABS They gave us a handbook to use during the course of the day, but they took that back at the end. They gave us printouts of the handbook to take home. Luckily, I have a copy of David Hough's book at home, so I've been able to delve into the specifics of traction, the contact patch, and cornering to my heart's content. In any case, I found the ERC course helpful, and I'm glad I took it. I plan on taking it again in 2 years. On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 12:57:31 EDT, penguinbiker@XXXXXX wrote: > > In a message dated 6/16/2004 12:48:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > sunil.doshi@XXXXXX writes: > > > I took the ERC course about a month ago. They did have the traction > > "pie" section of the course, but it wasn't more than a minute long. > > I'm not sure I got more than a rudimentary understanding of it. > > Hmmm. Do not know if I like that. I suppose if you are not into technical > shituff it could be considered a bit dry and boring. MSF is also trying to get > into more of a "self taught" adult education sort of thing and away from > lecture. Is it in handouts or a handbook? > > I mean in the end the only control surface you have with a motorcycle is the > contact patch, it is all about traction and controlling traction. > > John. > PenguinBiker@XXXXXX > > -- sunil http://widepipe.org/ride/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 16 13:51:59 2004 From: "Rob Keiser" To: mjordan812@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Hi all Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 13:40:30 -0400 So true. Safe trip home. Can't wait to see the pics. Rob '98 VFR800 From: To: Subject: Hi all Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 13:35:14 -0400 Sitting here in a hotel in Milano, Italy. Turned the rental bike in a few hours ago. about 5,100KM over 17 days. Doesn't sound like much, but a LOT of it was in 2nd gear. Weather absolutely SUCKED. Temps in the 30-40 degree F range for a lot of it. Rain, fog, sleet, clouds (they are NOT fluffy inside), and three snow events just to put the cherry on top. Still, a bad day riding is better than a good one in the office. Back home tomorrow Michael J From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 16 14:32:10 2004 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: CAGE ABS Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 14:32:01 -0400 > From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX > Was it the ERC???? > The _E_xperienced _R_ider _C_ourse has a lot of discussion of traction > control (including video) built in, in fact all told it probably consumes the > largest amount of time. It uses a traction "pie" (graph) to illustrate how traction > is shared by drive, turn, braking and control. I have not seen the replacement > for the ERC as yet, but I cannot imagine they discarded it totally. I just took the ERC last month. We had the pie chart, and discussed the concept several times, but we didn't have any videos about anything at all. Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" '02 919 I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 16 14:35:27 2004 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: Mike Bartman , PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: CAGE ABS Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 14:35:18 -0400 My experience was pretty much the same as yours, but we didn't even have a final exam. Bob Meyer > > From: Mike Bartman > Date: 2004/06/16 Wed PM 01:49:07 EDT > To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: CAGE ABS > > At 12:32 PM 6/16/04 EDT, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > >In a message dated 6/16/2004 11:00:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > >omni@XXXXXX writes: > > > >> >Anyone who has taken an MSF ERC has spent a lot of time discussing > >traction > >> >sharing. > >> > >> Not necessarily...it never came up in the course I took. > > > >Was it the ERC???? > > Yes. Given at the Frederick MVA last month. Says, "Experienced > RiderCourse COMPLETION CARD" on the completion certificate, and above > "Sponsor" it says "Motorcycle Safety". There's some text that explains > that the course meets requirements of the MSF, and the address, and that it > isn't a license to ride, and a sort of serial number starting with a "E". > > >The _E_xperienced _R_ider _C_ourse has a lot of discussion of traction > >control (including video) built in, in fact all told it probably consumes > the > >largest amount of time. It uses a traction "pie" (graph) to illustrate how > traction > >is shared by drive, turn, braking and control. > > Not the one I took. Apparently things have changed, or there's some > variation. > > >I have not seen the replacement > >for the ERC as yet, but I cannot imagine they discarded it totally. > > The one I took had a booklet that was handed out (and collected at the end > of the course) that had info in it about various things...though the thing > it hit hardest (on almost every page) was that as you get older things > change (duh!). There was no set-aside time to read it though, and only a > few sections were talked about by the instructors, and that was briefly > during the on-course breaks, as I said. There was no video, no discussion > of traction control (other than the "don't brake in a turn" stuff (which > was pretty much limited to that), and practice doing emergency stops in a > turn...straighten up and stop fast), and most of the time was spent riding > various exercises or taking the final exam (which was about five of the > things done as exercises earlier. Total time was about 6 hours. > > I plan to take it again when the chance comes up, so I can see if it varies > from time to time or not. > > > -- Mike B. > > '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) > > Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes > is better. > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 16 14:50:48 2004 Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 14:54:30 -0400 To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Re: CAGE ABS At 02:35 PM 6/16/04 -0400, Bob Meyer wrote: >My experience was pretty much the same as yours, but we didn't even have a final exam. Ours was on the bikes, and you got rated on performance, sort of like when you go to get your license. Points off for various things, 3 to 10 for each mistake if it's minor enough (some things, like blatantly unsafe things, or dropping the bike, were 16 pointers). Lose more than 15 points and you don't pass. There were 11 people in the class I was in, and only one got a perfect score (and a free T-shirt certificate from Frederick H-D). 2 didn't pass, though one passed on a retest two days later. I lost 9 points (12" over the line at one point on the "figure 8 in a box", 7' past the max point (30') on the panic stop (didn't use enough fingers on the front brake on the test...but did fine every time earlier. Sigh.) and didn't go fast enough around the cornering test (3.14 secs, rather than the max 2.90...with a stopwatch used to measure and a 2/10ths human reaction time for both start and stop of the timer, who knows?). At least I got the swerve right. I'll see if I can't improve things next time, though I have plenty of T-shirts! :-) -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 16 16:41:59 2004 Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 16:41:46 -0400 From: Aaron Maurer To: DC Cycles Subject: [OT] G-mail I have a gmail account invite to give away. Anyone want it? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 16 16:55:53 2004 From: "Lisa Goddard" To: "dccycles" Subject: traffic cameras Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 16:55:45 -0400 Hello, Does anyone know about the new traffic cameras to be installed in Montgomery County. The article indicates that they will now be used to enforce a complete stop before turning right on red. Does anyone know if they will detect motorcycles as well as they can detect cars? The article states that they will not be using the embedded system that was used for the previous generation of traffic cameras. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks, Lisa Goddard '95 VFR '97 GSXR600 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 16 17:13:40 2004 Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 17:13:34 -0400 From: Aaron Maurer To: DC Cycles Subject: GONE Fwd: [OT] G-mail Taken. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Aaron Maurer Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 16:41:46 -0400 Subject: [OT] G-mail To: DC Cycles I have a gmail account invite to give away. Anyone want it? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 16 17:55:41 2004 From: "Rob Keiser" To: lisagoddard@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: traffic cameras Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 17:55:29 -0400 Not sure, but maybe that's what they were installing by my house. Corner of Middlebrook Road and 355. The trucks said Laser Craft or something. Couldn't quite figure it out, but that could very well be the case for the Right Turn on Red runners. They blow by that all the time. South bound on 355 to a Right on Middlebrook Road West bound. I'll look more tonight. Rob '98 VFR800 From: "Lisa Goddard" To: "dccycles" Subject: traffic cameras Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 16:55:45 -0400 Hello, Does anyone know about the new traffic cameras to be installed in Montgomery County. The article indicates that they will now be used to enforce a complete stop before turning right on red. Does anyone know if they will detect motorcycles as well as they can detect cars? The article states that they will not be using the embedded system that was used for the previous generation of traffic cameras. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks, Lisa Goddard '95 VFR '97 GSXR600 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 16 18:08:52 2004 Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 18:08:41 -0400 From: Dale Horstman To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: NYT Article: No Helmet=More Death PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > And lord help us there is still the fact that a sport/lightweight bike with > ABS can still "nosie" right on over. (A magazine tester scared the crap out of > himself that way once, grabbed a big old handful of front brake to "test" the > ABS and damn near went ass over teakettle.) Stay away from that front brake, I'm telling ya, it'll kill ya. :) Hork -- Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark) Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX '98 Concours - BugSlayer Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth '99 Concours - Grape Nehi CM #001 NRA IBA COG '82 GS850G The Mason Dixon 20-20 Endurance Rally: The Hole Dam Rally Come join us in 2005: http://www.md2020.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 16 18:10:34 2004 Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 18:10:25 -0400 From: Dale Horstman To: Lisa Goddard CC: dccycles Subject: Re: traffic cameras Lisa Goddard wrote: > Hello, > > > Does anyone know about the new traffic cameras to be installed in Montgomery > County. The article indicates that they will now be used to enforce a > complete stop before turning right on red. > > Does anyone know if they will detect motorcycles as well as they can detect > cars? The article states that they will not be using the embedded system > that was used for the previous generation of traffic cameras. > > Any info would be appreciated. Any info on the fine for "adjusting" one of these cameras? Frankly, I'm surprised those things last more than a couple days out on the street. Take back your lives, people! Horkster -- Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark) Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX '98 Concours - BugSlayer Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth '99 Concours - Grape Nehi CM #001 NRA IBA COG '82 GS850G The Mason Dixon 20-20 Endurance Rally: The Hole Dam Rally Come join us in 2005: http://www.md2020.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 16 18:35:27 2004 Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 18:35:16 -0400 From: Dale Horstman To: Rob Keiser CC: lisagoddard@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: traffic cameras Rob Keiser wrote: > Not sure, but maybe that's what they were installing by my house. > Corner of Middlebrook Road and 355. The trucks said Laser Craft or > something. Couldn't quite figure it out, but that could very well be > the case for the Right Turn on Red runners. They blow by that all the > time. South bound on 355 to a Right on Middlebrook Road West bound. > > I'll look more tonight. > > Rob > '98 VFR800 Camera-warming party at Rob's house... stay tuned... :) -- Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark) Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX '98 Concours - BugSlayer Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth '99 Concours - Grape Nehi CM #001 NRA IBA COG '82 GS850G The Mason Dixon 20-20 Endurance Rally: The Hole Dam Rally Come join us in 2005: http://www.md2020.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 17 03:53:15 2004 Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 00:53:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Greets To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From Athens. Lots of fun here so far http://va_bofh.livejournal.com Pictures and a movie taken from my digicam (it has a 15 sec movie option). See the sights, see filtering, see the light change http://www.geocities.com/co_bofh/index.html It's memory heavy since I haven't figured out how to reduce the image size on the Mac yet. Once I do, I'll upload more pictures. Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 17 07:24:45 2004 From: Daniel To: Dale Horstman Cc: Rob Keiser , lisagoddard@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: traffic cameras Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 07:25:42 -0400 > >Camera-warming party at Rob's house... stay tuned... :) Mmmm do I smell a bond fire with marsh mellows? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 17 08:29:12 2004 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: Daniel , Dale Horstman CC: Rob Keiser , lisagoddard@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: traffic cameras Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 8:29:04 -0400 > From: Daniel > > > > >Camera-warming party at Rob's house... stay tuned... :) > > Mmmm do I smell a bond fire with marsh mellows? Well, some of my *bonds* aren't doing as well as I hoped, but I don't think I'll burn them as part of a *bonfire.* Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" '02 919 I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 17 09:02:01 2004 X-Abuse: Send abuse reports to: abuse@XXXXXX Reply-To: "Louis Caplan" From: "Louis Caplan" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: CAGE ABS Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 07:47:03 -0400 -------Original Message------- > From: > In a message dated 6/16/2004 11:00:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > omni@XXXXXX writes: > > > >Anyone who has taken an MSF ERC has spent a lot of time discussing > traction sharing. > > > > Not necessarily...it never came up in the course I took. > > Was it the ERC???? > The _E_xperienced _R_ider _C_ourse has a lot of discussion of traction > control (including video) built in, in fact all told it probably consumes the > largest amount of time. The ERC underwent a major change following the switch from the RSS to the BRC **. VA switched over to the new ERC last year, MD switched over this year. The classroom part was largely removed, now it's basically going over some material on a set of cards either in a classroom or on the range. Some of it includes the traction patch, but now there are no videos or slides, so the material is severly curtailed. The excercises are mostly excercises found in the BRC (with some slight changes) except the last one, which is a mini track of curves. Louis ** For those who don't follow the MSF closely... RSS - Riding and Street Stratigies, the MSF Curriculum up to around 2001-2002 (I forget the exact year) BRC - Basic RiderCourse, the new MSF Curriculum. ------- "Admiral" Louis Caplan 1998 Kawasaki Concours Fairfax, VA Please consider helping me support the Pediatric Brain Tumor Foundation http://www.geocities.com/nighthawk700/rideforkids.htm From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 17 09:39:22 2004 Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 09:38:51 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: dm_gsxr@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Greets X-AOL-IP: 65.86.98.162 X-AOL-Language: english "Sorry, the page you requested was not found" on all the links. Scooter In a message dated 6/17/2004 3:53:07 AM Eastern Daylight Time, dm_gsxr@XXXXXX writes: > > > From Athens. Lots of fun here so far > > http://va_bofh.livejournal.com > > Pictures and a movie taken from my digicam (it has a 15 sec movie option). > See the sights, see filtering, see the light change > > http://www.geocities.com/co_bofh/index.html > > It's memory heavy since I haven't figured out how to reduce > the image size > on the Mac yet. Once I do, I'll upload more pictures. > > Carl > > ===== > 02 Harley FXSTI > 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W > 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 17 10:38:09 2004 Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 07:38:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Greets To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: > "Sorry, the page you requested was not found" on all the links. > Arrr, it's .JPG not .jpg. Sorry, it's fix now. > Scooter Carl > > In a message dated 6/17/2004 3:53:07 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > dm_gsxr@XXXXXX writes: > > > > > > > From Athens. Lots of fun here so far > > > > http://va_bofh.livejournal.com > > > > Pictures and a movie taken from my digicam (it has a 15 sec movie > option). > > See the sights, see filtering, see the light change > > > > http://www.geocities.com/co_bofh/index.html > > > > It's memory heavy since I haven't figured out how to reduce > > the image size > > on the Mac yet. Once I do, I'll upload more pictures. > > > > Carl > > > > ===== > > 02 Harley FXSTI > > 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W > > 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! > > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > > ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 17 11:41:48 2004 Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 11:42:08 -0400 To: "Lisa Goddard" , "dccycles" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: traffic cameras At 04:55 PM 6/16/04 -0400, Lisa Goddard wrote: >Does anyone know about the new traffic cameras to be installed in Montgomery >County. The article indicates that they will now be used to enforce a >complete stop before turning right on red. That will be nice. Too many idiots forget the "after stop" part of the "right turn on red" law. At first they were just treating it like a yield sign, rather than a stop, but many now seem to assume that they have right of way...i.e. that's it's a green light for them...and will pull out in front on on-coming traffic without a care. >Does anyone know if they will detect motorcycles as well as they can detect >cars? The article states that they will not be using the embedded system >that was used for the previous generation of traffic cameras. Yeah, it would be nice to know how they work. If it's using radar or something, where is it mounted? If it's on the lights themselves, what about "bounce" caused by wind? Will that let it pick up the other lanes by mistake? And if they've found another way than the induction loops to pick up traffic, that will detect a bike reliably, can we get them to use it for light timing too? -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 17 11:51:20 2004 Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 11:52:47 -0400 From: Skip CC: dccycles Subject: Re: traffic cameras Mike Bartman wrote: > And if they've found another way than the induction loops to pick up > traffic, that will detect a bike reliably, can we get them to use it for > light timing too? only if it will make them money. --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 17 12:03:53 2004 Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 11:55:17 -0400 To: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX, dm_gsxr@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Greets Either it's back up, or the problem is at your end Scooter. I got to the livejournal just fine, but the pics are down due to exceeding bandwidth...Carl's is a popular sight I guess! ;-) -- Mike B. At 09:38 AM 6/17/04 -0400, ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: >"Sorry, the page you requested was not found" on all the links. >In a message dated 6/17/2004 3:53:07 AM Eastern Daylight Time, dm_gsxr@XXXXXX writes: > >> http://va_bofh.livejournal.com >> http://www.geocities.com/co_bofh/index.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 17 13:28:50 2004 Reply-To: "S. Russell" From: "S. Russell" To: Subject: Bike Changes Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 13:28:00 -0400 Well, ended up selling my 84 Honda CB700SC, may it not be dropped by the new user as I had not either. I bought it for $100 and put a lot of work into getting it up and running. It was looking better than it was when I got it a few years ago. I sold it to a soon to be attorney in Rosslyn for almost blue book price. He said something about bringing it to Chicago with him. A friend of mine has now given me the title to a 91 Honda CB750 Nighhawk, Black with a full plexiglass screen. It has low miles and has been in storage for a few years. She has pulled it out and ran it every so often. The other day we pulled it out and it started right up. I guess some Stabil, carb cleaner and polish and we should be good to go. I also am changing the screen to a F-15 style screen (http://www.accwhse.com/photos/natcyc_f15_sprt_wndshld_drktnt.gif), I think it will add something to the bike. Hope to be back out soon, need to get it inspected and tagged. I might sell this one on my ultimate upgrade to a Superhawk, ZRX1200S or a Goldwing (yes I know, three different bikes). Scott From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 17 15:17:06 2004 From: "Shigeru Honda" To: "S. Russell" , Subject: Re: Bike Changes Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 15:18:50 -0400 >> my ultimate upgrade to a Superhawk Let me know when you want SuperHawk! --------------------- Shigeru Honda 98 SuperHawk (Street) 99 750 SS (Track #881) 02 MZ Skorpion Tour (Commuter) 91 CR80 (new toy) ----- Original Message ----- From: "S. Russell" To: Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 1:28 PM Subject: Bike Changes > Well, ended up selling my 84 Honda CB700SC, may it not be dropped by the new > user as I had not either. I bought it for $100 and put a lot of work into > getting it up and running. It was looking better than it was when I got it > a few years ago. I sold it to a soon to be attorney in Rosslyn for almost > blue book price. He said something about bringing it to Chicago with him. > > A friend of mine has now given me the title to a 91 Honda CB750 Nighhawk, > Black with a full plexiglass screen. It has low miles and has been in > storage for a few years. She has pulled it out and ran it every so often. > The other day we pulled it out and it started right up. I guess some > Stabil, carb cleaner and polish and we should be good to go. I also am > changing the screen to a F-15 style screen > (http://www.accwhse.com/photos/natcyc_f15_sprt_wndshld_drktnt.gif), I think > it will add something to the bike. > > Hope to be back out soon, need to get it inspected and tagged. I might sell > this one on my ultimate upgrade to a Superhawk, ZRX1200S or a Goldwing (yes > I know, three different bikes). > > Scott > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 17 16:06:02 2004 Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 16:07:45 -0400 From: Skip To: DC Cycles Subject: Bike Search got a friend that is looking for a bike. He's looking at a nighthawk 750, but is open to all suggestions. anyone got anything good for sale?\ --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 17 16:35:30 2004 Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 16:35:14 -0400 Subject: Re: Bike Search Cc: DC Cycles To: Skip From: Randy Moran I advertised a buddy's GXR-600 here recently. not sure if he's sold it yet. I think he wanted 5k OBO for it (a 2001 model). I can check back with him if anyone is interested. RPM On Thursday, June 17, 2004, at 04:07 PM, Skip wrote: > got a friend that is looking for a bike. He's looking at a nighthawk > 750, but is open to all suggestions. anyone got anything good for > sale?\ > > > --skip > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 17 16:53:24 2004 Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 16:52:54 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: omni@XXXXXX, dm_gsxr@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Greets X-AOL-IP: 65.86.98.162 X-AOL-Language: english It was just up and I got the pics. Carl fixed something. :-) Now I'm getting the exceeded bandwidth message for the video. :-( Oh well, maybe one of these days I'll get to see it. hehe Scooter In a message dated 6/17/2004 11:55:17 AM Eastern Daylight Time, omni@XXXXXX writes: > > > Either it's back up, or the problem is at your end Scooter. I got to the > livejournal just fine, but the pics are down due to exceeding > bandwidth...Carl's is a popular sight I guess! ;-) > > -- Mike B. > > At 09:38 AM 6/17/04 -0400, ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: > >"Sorry, the page you requested was not found" on all the links. > > >In a message dated 6/17/2004 3:53:07 AM Eastern Daylight > Time, > dm_gsxr@XXXXXX writes: > > > >> http://va_bofh.livejournal.com > > >> http://www.geocities.com/co_bofh/index.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 17 20:51:04 2004 Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 20:38:37 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Bruce Brownlee Subject: Re: Bike Search I might have a '85 550 Shadow for sale. It needs fork seals and a battery (which I will do prior to sale). Tires are almost new and it runs great (11.5k mi). No damage. Comes with a windshield. its not a keeper, but its definitely a good starter. looking for $1200. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 18 08:10:50 2004 Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 08:10:43 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Exponential Dumb Assedness To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > >Just a followup on the traction and lane position issue. ... Some EDA on foot ran across against the light and the car in front of me >hit the brakes to avoid splattering him (we had a green arrow). I hit the >brakes to avoid bending metal...and slid almost 40' ... >So, to answer the person who said traction in the middle is >only lowered when rain first starts, and to go out and test >this...done. Not a true statement for all bits of roadway, >though it may well be true for some. [Dave] Well, I'm glad you're unscathed relatively, MB... 1st, I'd like to clarify that I meant you should practice it - not put it into live production without even beta testing! 2nd, I should probably have better qualified the statement to narrow the 'center lane traction' issue to the much maligned 'center lane goo'. Obviously if the pavement is rippled and generally in a shoddy state of repair like... well, just about every place around here that doesn't have fresh pavement, you'll have less than sufficient funds in the traction budget to complete most braking transactions of high import. All things being equal, I stand by the idea that the center lane has just as much traction provided it hasn't just begun to rain, etc... Nevertheless, experience is a far better teacher than any DCC LM. Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 18 09:29:18 2004 From: Daniel To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: question for the racers Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 09:30:04 -0400 I'm trying to wire something up on my bike, and do a by pass of something else.. Please email me off list, I have a question or two, and I think you may be able to help.. thanks - Danny From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 18 10:48:18 2004 Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 10:51:12 -0400 To: Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Exponential Dumb Assedness At 08:10 AM 6/18/04 -0400, Dave Yates wrote: Mike B. wrote: >>Just a followup on the traction and lane position issue. >>brakes to avoid bending metal...and slid almost 40' ... >>So, to answer the person who said traction in the middle is >>only lowered when rain first starts, and to go out and test >>this...done. Not a true statement for all bits of roadway, >>though it may well be true for some. > >[Dave] Well, I'm glad you're unscathed relatively, MB... >1st, I'd like to clarify that I meant you should practice it - > not put it into live production without even beta testing! It wasn't actually planned that way, but I'll take whatever empirical evidence comes by. :-) >2nd, I should probably have better qualified the statement to >narrow the 'center lane traction' issue to the much >maligned 'center lane goo'. Obviously if the pavement is >rippled and generally in a shoddy state of repair like... >well, just about every place around here that doesn't have >fresh pavement, you'll have less than sufficient funds in the >traction budget to complete most braking transactions of high >import. This particular bit of pavement was pretty flat. It *was* covered in goo though, mostly in the center of the lane. You can go check it out for yourself if you like. I'm sure my "skid mark" is gone, but the goo should still be there. Southbound on Georgia, left turn lane onto Randolph Road. It's much worse there than at your average area intersection. Toll plazas and busy intersections not paved recently tend to be a lot "gooier", due to all the vehicles that sit there dripping oil waiting for the lights to change or the toll taker to hit the button for the green light or whatever. The stretches of road between such places don't tend to have anywhere near the level of goo buildup, and so the center-of-lane thing may not be as critical there...but I'll be watching out for lane position at intersections and toll plazas with increased vigilance...particularly due to the fact that stopping at such places is far more likely (or certain), so traction gets critical there just as it decreases. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 18 11:44:02 2004 Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 11:40:20 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Exponential Dumb Assedness To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX MB reports: >This particular bit of pavement was pretty flat. It *was* >covered in goo though, mostly in the center of the lane. [Dave] Alright, look: There's "center lane goo" and there's "X-files black oil". The former is harmless, the latter.... Well, if you didn't watch the X-Files, ride at your own peril ! ;-) I'm betting your encounter was with the latter.... Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 18 15:07:01 2004 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: FW: [SV650_BALT_DC] Saturday SV Ride 06.19.2004 Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 14:55:03 -0400 Mark, Jason, Chris, other SVers? I'm meeting Nate at the Trader Joes in Falls Church at 9am. >From: Nathan Wills >Reply-To: SV650_BALT_DC@XXXXXX >To: SV650_BALT_DC@XXXXXX >Subject: [SV650_BALT_DC] Saturday Ride 06.19.2004 >Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 10:11:45 -0700 (PDT) > >Hello Group! > >Some of us from the SVRider board are planning a twisties ride in MD on >Saturday. The meeting time is 9:30am at Barnes and Noble of route 355 in >Rockville. For more infromation go to >http://www.svrider.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=22791 and keep an eye on the >the thread action. Feel free to email me directly as well. I will be >leaving Falls Church around 9ish... > >Hope to see ya there! > >Nate >SVS Tekneeks _________________________________________________________________ Stop worrying about overloading your inbox - get MSN Hotmail Extra Storage! http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jun 19 18:17:39 2004 Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 18:17:23 -0400 From: Skip Smith To: DC-Cycles Subject: Independance Day for all interested... I'm having my (in)famous independance day party again. What I provide: grilled meats beer/wine What you bring: A dish to share The plan: Drink and socialize for most of the day while the kids run around and splash in the kiddie pool. Volleyball? perhaps. Croquet? yeah, probably. then, when we're all good and liquored up, we'll start playing with explosives. lemme know if you want to come. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 21 07:15:32 2004 Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 04:14:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Lurking Subject: chain lube's effect, if any, on tires? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Hi All, Yesterday, upon my return from a Saturday night camping trip to GW National Forest, I sprayed my chain thoroughly with Del-Ray (or Bel-Ray) chain lube. I lost the attachment straw, so I tend to get my rim and sidewall of my rear tire coated with lube when performing this maintanence. Are there any issues I should be aware of with this? I realize that if lube gets on the contact patch of the tire, it will negatively effect traction, but the lube won't eat away at the rubber sidewall of the tire will it? Thanks for your experience, -Kipp. ===== "If we cannot live so as to be happy, let us least live so as to deserve it." - Immanuel Hermann Fichte (1797-1879) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 21 07:38:18 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 07:38:08 EDT Subject: Re: chain lube's effect, if any, on tires? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/21/2004 7:15:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time, lurking444@XXXXXX writes: > I > realize that if lube gets on the contact patch of the tire, it will > negatively effect > traction, but the lube won't eat away at the rubber sidewall of the tire > will it? Chain lube _should_ not damage your tire, lordy knows if it did we would all have ridden on damaged tires at one time or another. Where are you aiming the spray? I should be on the _inside_ of the chain between the links. You should be able to do this without spraying your tire. And you really need very little. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC 1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European 1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles 1976, Honda CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 21 07:58:49 2004 Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 07:57:49 -0400 (EDT) From: dan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: chain lube's effect, if any, on tires? On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > Chain lube _should_ not damage your tire, lordy knows if it did we would all > have ridden on damaged tires at one time or another. > Where are you aiming the spray? I should be on the _inside_ of the chain > between the links. You should be able to do this without spraying your tire. And > you really need very little. And if you have a rear stand, you can put a piece of cardboard in between your wheel and chain. Then turn the wheel with your hand and spray away. Personally I hate spray chain lube. I prefer gear oil in a bar-b-q (tm) baster bottle that has a nice brush tip, stocked by the local dollar tree. Dan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 21 09:33:07 2004 Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 09:35:41 -0400 To: Lurking , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: chain lube's effect, if any, on tires? At 04:14 AM 6/21/04 -0700, Lurking wrote: >I lost the attachment >straw, so I tend to get my rim and sidewall of my rear tire coated with lube when >performing this maintanence. Cardboard shield? Steal a straw from the next can you buy and use it for both of them? >traction, but the lube won't eat away at the rubber sidewall of the tire will it? No solid idea, but I'd guess not. Chains throw lube a bit under normal circumstances, so I assume that the manufacturer wouldn't use anything that will eat tires or other bike parts. If they did, they'd probably have been sued out of existence already. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 21 10:30:06 2004 X-OB-Received: from unknown (205.158.62.49) by 205.158.62.180; 21 Jun 2004 14:28:51 -0000 From: "David Blumgart" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 09:29:43 -0500 Subject: chain lube redux Two questions: I've always been under the impression that the load-bearing surfaces of a chain are inside the chain and any lube you can see isn't really doing you much good. So is there any point to lubing a modern O-ring sealed chain? Do the sprockets really need the lubrication? Assuming there is, any consensus on what's the best product for cleaning off the lube that inevitably spatters on your rear rim? -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 21 11:06:27 2004 From: Kirk Roy To: Subject: Re: chain lube redux Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 11:06:19 -0400 "David Blumgart" wrote: > I've always been under the impression that the > load-bearing surfaces of a chain are inside the chain and > any lube you can see isn't really doing you much good. So > is there any point to lubing a modern O-ring sealed chain? > Do the sprockets really need the lubrication? I've heard of guys who avoid rain getting a decent number of miles out of a chain without lubing (e.g., 20k miles or more). If you ride in the rain you're going to have to lube it if you want it to last... Kirk From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 21 11:07:02 2004 Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 11:09:03 -0400 From: Skip To: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Bike Search the search is over... > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2481811806&category=50005 Skip wrote: > > got a friend that is looking for a bike. He's looking at a nighthawk > 750, but is open to all suggestions. anyone got anything good for > sale?\ > > --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 21 11:25:57 2004 Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 11:25:48 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Bike Search X-AOL-IP: 65.86.98.162 X-AOL-Language: english He gonna fly out to TN to pick it up and ride it back? Sounds like a nice trip. :-) Scooter In a message dated 6/21/2004 11:09:03 AM Eastern Daylight Time, skip@XXXXXX writes: > > > the search is over... > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2481811806&category=50005 > > Skip wrote: > > > > got a friend that is looking for a bike. He's looking at a nighthawk > > 750, but is open to all suggestions. anyone got anything > good for > > sale?\ > > > > --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 21 11:36:25 2004 Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 11:38:38 -0400 From: Skip CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Bike Search he found a friend with a bike trailier. and I think he's going to borrow my car :) ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: > > He gonna fly out to TN to pick it up and ride it back? Sounds like a nice trip. :-) > > Scooter > > In a message dated 6/21/2004 11:09:03 AM Eastern Daylight Time, skip@XXXXXX writes: > > > > > > > the search is over... > > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2481811806&category=50005 > > > > Skip wrote: > > > > > > got a friend that is looking for a bike. He's looking at a nighthawk > > > 750, but is open to all suggestions. anyone got anything > > good for > > > sale?\ > > > > > > --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 21 11:44:32 2004 Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 11:44:20 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Stand back....I've got a bike question and I'm not afraid to use it. X-AOL-IP: 65.86.98.162 X-AOL-Language: english For the past few months my R6 has been making a rattling noise when I first start it up. I put the choke on to let it warm up and hear an intermittent rattle until it does warm up. Then the rattle goes away. I took it to the shop and the mechanic said it sounded like the carbs needed synced. They performed the sync and the rattle went away for a couple weeks and then came back. I can't believe the carbs are out of sync again after that short amount of time. Any thoughts on what it might be? Keep in mind, I am completely mechanically challenged and have no clue what exactly a carb is other than something people are trying to cut back on to lose weight. ;-) Scooter From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 21 11:50:07 2004 Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 08:49:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Stand back....I've got a bike question and I'm not afraid to use it. To: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX those damn rattlin' carbs. what shop was this so i can keep my shit outta there? --- ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: > For the past few months my R6 has been making a rattling > noise when I first start it up. I put the choke on to > let it warm up and hear an intermittent rattle until it > does warm up. Then the rattle goes away. I took it to > the shop and the mechanic said it sounded like the carbs > needed synced. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 21 12:00:24 2004 Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 12:00:11 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Stand back....I've got a bike question and I'm not afraid to use it. X-AOL-IP: 65.86.98.162 X-AOL-Language: english Cycle Sport in Alexandria. I've never had any problems with them working on my bike before. However, Pete has left and they've got a couple new guys in there. I hope the service isn't going down hill now because of it. :-( Scooter In a message dated 6/21/2004 11:49:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time, t_gimer@XXXXXX writes: > > > those damn rattlin' carbs. what shop was this so i can > keep my shit outta there? > > > > --- ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: > > For the past few months my R6 has been making a rattling > > noise when I first start it up. I put the choke on to > > let it warm up and hear an intermittent rattle until it > > does warm up. Then the rattle goes away. I took it to > > the shop and the mechanic said it sounded like the carbs > > needed synced. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 21 12:19:27 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 12:19:18 EDT Subject: Re: chain lube redux To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/21/2004 10:30:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mojohand@XXXXXX writes: > So is there any point to lubing a modern O-ring sealed chain? Most modern chain lubes are wax based, and mostly prevent rust and keep the seals/rings from deteriorating. As a result you need very little and if applied correctly there should be _very_ little over spray. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC 1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European 1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles 1976, Honda CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 21 14:01:33 2004 Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 14:01:22 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Stand back....I've got a bike question and I'm not afraid to use it. X-AOL-IP: 65.86.98.162 X-AOL-Language: english After having my memory jogged by someone, I believe it was a valve adjustment it needed last time and not a carb sync. It as pointed out that it could be a valve reaching the limit of adjustment and rattling until it warms up. I do have 24000+ miles on it. Does this make sense that the valves could be out of adjustment again? Maybe out of adjustment on the opposite side this time? Anyone wanna give a listen and lend a hand to the mechanically challenged? :-) Scooter In a message dated 6/21/2004 11:44:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ScooterFZR writes: > > > For the past few months my R6 has been making a rattling noise when I first start it up. I put the choke on to let it warm up and hear an intermittent rattle until it does warm up. Then the rattle goes away. I took it to the shop and the mechanic said it sounded like the carbs needed synced. They performed the sync and the rattle went away for a couple weeks and then came back. I can't believe the carbs are out of sync again after that short amount of time. Any thoughts on what it might be? Keep in mind, I am completely mechanically challenged and have no clue what exactly a carb is other than something people are trying to cut back on to lose weight. > ;-) > > Scooter From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 21 14:25:13 2004 From: bernescut@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Stand back....I've got a bike question and I'm not afraid to use it. Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 14:24:48 -0400 I have no idea about the FZR, but the CBR600's (F, F2,F3, F4) are notorious for having bad cam chain tensioners. I'll defer to others on the list as to the actual mechanics of it, but it's signalled by a rattling noise that goes away after the engine warms up. The only real cure in the case of the CBR's is to replace the automatic tensioning unit with an aftermarket manual unit. You might check some FZR lists to see if it's a known issue. I fully admit to being mechanically challenged and will quietly sulk away while others let out peels of derisive laughter. I'll go slink back to my corner now. Cedric Bernescut 2000 CBR600F4 Annandale, VA "One, two, three, four, five, and six. Six, the perfect number." "I thought seven was the perfect number." " My gun only holds six bullets." Anyone wanna give a listen and lend a hand to the mechanically challenged? :-) Scooter From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 21 15:31:58 2004 Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 15:31:10 -0400 (EDT) From: dan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Greenway Po-Po Warning It seems the Greenway has gotten a new graduate of the VSP academy who prides himself in VERY STRICT enforcement. While this rookie gets broken in, take it easy. He's been pulling people over for some pretty silly speeds. Dan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 21 15:34:28 2004 From: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" To: "'dan'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Greenway Po-Po Warning Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 15:34:19 -0400 He'll learn when all that paper work starts piling up he'll chill out. -----Original Message----- From: dan [mailto:dan@XXXXXX] Sent: Monday, June 21, 2004 3:31 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Greenway Po-Po Warning It seems the Greenway has gotten a new graduate of the VSP academy who prides himself in VERY STRICT enforcement. While this rookie gets broken in, take it easy. He's been pulling people over for some pretty silly speeds. Dan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 21 15:40:25 2004 Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 15:42:38 -0400 From: Skip CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Greenway Po-Po Warning Or he gets a commendation for bringing all that revenue and protecting the sheeple. "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" wrote: > > He'll learn when all that paper work starts piling up he'll chill out. > > -----Original Message----- > From: dan [mailto:dan@XXXXXX] > Sent: Monday, June 21, 2004 3:31 PM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Greenway Po-Po Warning > > It seems the Greenway has gotten a new graduate of the VSP academy who > prides himself in VERY STRICT enforcement. While this rookie gets broken > in, take it easy. He's been pulling people over for some pretty silly > speeds. > > Dan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 21 15:44:14 2004 Subject: RE: Greenway Po-Po Warning Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 15:44:06 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: So, what you're saying is that getting pulled over for doing 65 in a 55 is a bit much, especially when someone goes past doing a stand-up wheelie at 90 while you're getting written up? I think I'd tend to agree... LOL Robert -----Original Message----- From: Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS) [mailto:Silvera@XXXXXX] Sent: Monday, June 21, 2004 3:34 PM To: 'dan'; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Greenway Po-Po Warning He'll learn when all that paper work starts piling up he'll chill out. -----Original Message----- From: dan [mailto:dan@XXXXXX] Sent: Monday, June 21, 2004 3:31 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Greenway Po-Po Warning It seems the Greenway has gotten a new graduate of the VSP academy who prides himself in VERY STRICT enforcement. While this rookie gets broken in, take it easy. He's been pulling people over for some pretty silly speeds. Dan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 21 15:50:37 2004 Subject: RE: Greenway Po-Po Warning Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 15:50:29 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Skip" Cc: Of course, when cases start getting thrown out of traffic court because the arresting officer is unable to attend, due to a conflicting obligation, he'll get a strong hint from his commander that he needs to manage his time better. Meeting ticket quota is just one part of a satisfactory performance review. Cases being dismissed because he's too busy to attend, or abysmal ticket quotas because he's spending all his time in court, both would seem to outweigh a temporary perception of satisfactory job performance. Thanks for the tip, though, all news along this line is good news, as far as I'm concerned. Robert -----Original Message----- From: Skip [mailto:skip@XXXXXX] Sent: Monday, June 21, 2004 3:43 PM Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Greenway Po-Po Warning Or he gets a commendation for bringing all that revenue and protecting the sheeple. "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" wrote: > > He'll learn when all that paper work starts piling up he'll chill out. > > -----Original Message----- > From: dan [mailto:dan@XXXXXX] > Sent: Monday, June 21, 2004 3:31 PM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Greenway Po-Po Warning > > It seems the Greenway has gotten a new graduate of the VSP academy who > prides himself in VERY STRICT enforcement. While this rookie gets broken > in, take it easy. He's been pulling people over for some pretty silly > speeds. > > Dan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 21 17:38:23 2004 From: "Michael Jordan" To: Subject: A loss Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 17:38:10 -0400 Sweet T's - the ice cream shop in Purcellville on business 7 appears to have gone out of business. This does not bode well for upcoming summer rides. Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 21 17:39:33 2004 From: "Michael Jordan" To: "'Kirk Roy'" , Subject: RE: chain lube redux Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 17:39:21 -0400 > If you ride in the rain you're going to have to lube > it if you want it to last... If you don't ride in the rain, how do you get the dirt and bugs off your bike? Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 21 17:50:10 2004 From: David Blacka To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: A loss Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 17:50:06 -0400 On Monday 21 June 2004 5:38 pm, Michael Jordan wrote: > Sweet T's - the ice cream shop in Purcellville on business 7 appears to > have gone out of business. This does not bode well for upcoming summer > rides. I asked a local resident about this, and apparently, Sweet T's has simply moved and changed its name. It is now (apparently) called Fire & Ice and is in the strip mall with the new Giant (about 1 block east). -- David From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 21 18:07:29 2004 From: "Michael Jordan" To: Subject: RE: A loss Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 18:07:18 -0400 > > Sweet T's - the ice cream shop in Purcellville on business > 7 appears > > to have gone out of business. This does not bode well for upcoming > > summer rides. > > I asked a local resident about this, and apparently, Sweet > T's has simply moved and changed its name. It is now > (apparently) called Fire & Ice and is in the strip mall with > the new Giant (about 1 block east). Thanks David, so long as they haven't changed their ice cream... Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 21 18:18:30 2004 Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 18:18:09 -0400 From: Dale Horstman To: Michael Jordan CC: "'Kirk Roy'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: chain lube redux Michael Jordan wrote: > If you don't ride in the rain, how do you get the dirt and bugs off your > bike? Why does everyone always want to remove the dirt and bugs? That's a sure sign that you've BEEN somewhere on the thing... :) Horkster PS: My cam chain stays nice and lubed all the time. :) PPS: Shafties rule! -- Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark) Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX '98 Concours - BugSlayer Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth '99 Concours - Grape Nehi CM #001 NRA IBA COG '82 GS850G The Mason Dixon 20-20 Endurance Rally: The Hole Dam Rally Come join us in 2005: http://www.md2020.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 21 20:05:38 2004 X-SpaceNet-Authentification: SMTP AUTH verified Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 20:05:35 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Chris Chubb Subject: Re: chain lube redux >Michael Jordan wrote: > > > If you don't ride in the rain, how do you get the dirt and bugs off your > > bike? > >Why does everyone always want to remove the dirt and bugs? That's a >sure sign that you've BEEN somewhere on the thing... :) Any day nice enough to wash the bike is more than nice enough to ride the bike! Chris From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 21 21:32:22 2004 Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 21:36:02 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Wash'n Ride (was: Re: chain lube redux) At 08:05 PM 6/21/04 -0400, Chris Chubb wrote: >>Michael Jordan wrote: >>Why does everyone always want to remove the dirt and bugs? That's a >>sure sign that you've BEEN somewhere on the thing... :) > >Any day nice enough to wash the bike is more than nice enough to ride the bike! Yeah, but you're more visible with the chrome shining brightly! -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 21 23:55:53 2004 From: "Rob Sharp" To: "David Blumgart" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: chain lube redux Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 23:58:27 -0400 1)At the very least the oil on the chain will prevent rust for forming as easily. 2)I think the lube will be the o rings from getting dried out and cracking (losing seal as easily). 3)Lube helps cut the gunk that builds up on the chain. I usually like to take a tooth brush and some chain lube to the chain once or twice a season. Stuff like dirt and grim from the road gets on the chain and thats how I clean it off. 4)Whats the saying, grease is cheaper than steel ? Regards, Rob On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 09:29:43 -0500, David Blumgart wrote > Two questions: > > I've always been under the impression that the load-bearing surfaces > of a chain are inside the chain and any lube you can see isn't > really doing you much good. So is there any point to lubing a modern > O-ring sealed chain? Do the sprockets really need the lubrication? > > Assuming there is, any consensus on what's the best product for > cleaning off the lube that inevitably spatters on your rear rim? > -- > ___________________________________________________________ > Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com > http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 22 08:16:46 2004 Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 05:16:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Cool online moto game To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://www.newgrounds.com/frames.php?location=/police/bike.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 22 09:20:33 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 09:20:21 EDT Subject: Re: Stand back....I've got a bike question and I'm not afraid to use it. To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/21/2004 2:25:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bernescut@XXXXXX writes: > will quietly sulk away while others let > out peels of derisive laughter. Cam chain was my first thought. Still is. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 22 09:52:10 2004 From: Kirk Roy To: Subject: RE: chain lube redux Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 9:52:02 -0400 "Michael Jordan" wrote: > > If you ride in the rain you're going to have to lube > > it if you want it to last... > > If you don't ride in the rain, how do you get the dirt and > bugs off your bike? You got me there. I don't wash bikes and I'm not particularly good about chain maintenance (but prefer the types of bikes they put chains on so shafties or belts are out). Last time I washed a bike it was stolen that night so I learned my lesson... http://users.adelphia.net/~abcwkroy/zx9r Kirk From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 22 11:23:42 2004 Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 11:23:16 -0400 From: Brian Roach To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: chain lube redux PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > Most modern chain lubes are wax based, and mostly prevent rust and keep the > seals/rings from deteriorating. As a result you need very little and if applied > correctly there should be _very_ little over spray. What John said. You can't lube an O-Ring chain. It has O-rings. The parts actually experiencing friction are behind those O-rings. You can, however, clean an O-Ring chain. Makes it look nicer, keeps it from rusting, also helps keep the O-rings in good shape. A mild degreaser, WD-40, or any of the commercial chain cleaner products and a brush are all you need. - Roach -- http://www.speedwerks.com The one-stop shop for all your motorcycling needs! (302) 672 - 7223 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 22 11:39:32 2004 Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 11:43:03 -0400 To: Brian Roach , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: chain lube redux At 11:23 AM 6/22/04 -0400, Brian Roach wrote: >You can't lube an O-Ring chain. It has O-rings. The parts actually >experiencing friction are behind those O-rings. This seems at least half-right (and might be completely right, I dunno). The o-rings keep the road junk out, and the lube in, for the links pivoting on their little shafts, so that friction from flexing the chain is taken care of. But is that the only source of friction in a chain's life? What about the friction between the chain and the sprockets? That happens outside the o-ring protected areas. Is that negligible? Wouldn't some lube there be useful? As you and others have said, rust prevention, cleaning, and conditioning the o-rings are other reasons to lube an o-ring chain, but wear prevention seems like it should be a factor too. As I've said before IANAM, so my thinking on this is not based on decades of practical experience, and anyone with such experience will be listened to here at least. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 22 12:05:04 2004 Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 09:03:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: MSRP vs Out the Door To: DC Cycles I am helping a friend buy a Vino 125. I have never bought a new veichle before so I have a question. The MSRP is $2299 and the dealership wants $2997 out the door (taxes, tag, freight, setup). How much of this extra $$ is bullsh**t? Setup for a scooter should be about 5 minutes. Tags? Don't you but your own tags? Taxes? Isn't that paid at the DMV? Thanks Mark __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 22 13:20:41 2004 From: Stephen Miller Subject: Re: MSRP vs Out the Door Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 13:20:34 -0400 To: DC-Cycles They pay tax, tag, title, etc. for you. The setup fees, etc. are mostly b.s. Tell him to ask for $2600 otd or so -- something realistic, but much less than they're asking for. On Jun 22, 2004, at 12:03 PM, Mark Kitchell wrote: > I am helping a friend buy a Vino 125. I have never > bought a new veichle before so I have a question. > > The MSRP is $2299 and the dealership wants $2997 out > the door (taxes, tag, freight, setup). > > How much of this extra $$ is bullsh**t? Setup for a > scooter should be about 5 minutes. Tags? Don't you > but your own tags? Taxes? Isn't that paid at the > DMV? > > Thanks > > Mark > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > > http://cornersolution.com The only blog you need to read. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 22 13:25:25 2004 Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 10:25:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: MSRP vs Out the Door To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX The dealer is assuming registering the vehicle for your buddy. So the fees he is going to be charged include at least one year registration fee, titling fee, and sales tax. The dealer is probably also charging your friend a fee to do this. Some car dealers charge up to $300 for this. Hopefully you can talk your buddy into haggling to get the bike cheaper then MSRP and then work from there. Also tell them you are willing to register the bike yourself. All he needs is the "Certificate of Origin", that a title of sorts from the manufacturer. With that your friend can go to DMV and do it himself. if he doesn't want the hassle of DMV he can pay the dealer the fee. Glenn --- Mark Kitchell wrote: > I am helping a friend buy a Vino 125. I have never > bought a new veichle before so I have a question. > > The MSRP is $2299 and the dealership wants $2997 out > the door (taxes, tag, freight, setup). > > How much of this extra $$ is bullsh**t? Setup for a > scooter should be about 5 minutes. Tags? Don't you > but your own tags? Taxes? Isn't that paid at the > DMV? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 22 14:43:34 2004 Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 14:42:29 -0400 (EDT) From: dan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: chain lube redux > You can't lube an O-Ring chain. It has O-rings. The parts actually > experiencing friction are behind those O-rings. > > - Roach Anyone have one of those "laser" temperature guns? I'd be interested in seeing what the temperature difference would be between a WD-40, Chain wax, and gear oil lubed chain. My theory, Chain wax and WD-40 will be close with gear oil being slightly cooler. As a side note, anyone made a homemade scottoiler? Dan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 22 15:12:00 2004 Subject: Re: chain lube redux To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Kevin_Hawkins@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 15:07:45 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on ITFX2ALN12/InternetMail(651HF78 | March 08, 2004) at 06/22/2004 03:17:11 PM Nah, went with the HawkeOiler instead. Installation pics here: http://www.kevinhawk.com/hawkeoiler.html Their website: http://www.hawkeoiler.com Kevin Hawkins kevin_hawkins(nospam)@vfc.com http://www.kevinhawk.com '93 Yamaha GTS1000 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ As a side note, anyone made a homemade scottoiler? Dan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 22 15:46:40 2004 Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 12:46:28 -0700 (PDT) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: chain lube redux To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- dan wrote: > Anyone have one of those "laser" temperature guns? I'd be interested in > seeing what the temperature difference would be between a WD-40, Chain > wax, and gear oil lubed chain. I have one, but most of the consumer models (i.e., under $100) have too wide a sampling area to measure the temp. of something as narrow as a moto chain -- typically a 6 inch diameter area at two feet from the gun. Tires have about as small an area as you can effectively sample. -- Larry __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 22 15:59:40 2004 Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 15:59:01 -0400 From: "Gwen Dade" Subject: Re: MSRP vs Out the Door To: "Mark Kitchell" , "DC Cycles" X-AOL-IP: 68.98.185.162 When I went to the dealerships in Virginia, the dealer charges were anywhere from 750.00-1200.00 for a new bike--this had steered me away from buying a new bike, plus I had decided on a used bike because of the great advice I got from the guys on this site. UNTIL, I went to Maryland (Hershey Cycle) and the charges were 500.00 including assembly, freight, and installing the accessories I bought. New bike all of a sudden became much more affordable. Big difference. I didn't pay the taxes there - told them I would do it in Virginia, but if I had, it still would have been only 3% since they have to charge you your states taxes. Plus they wanted to make the sale, and I had my checkbook and pen ready, so I eventually paid much less than MSRP for out the door, INCLUDING the assembly, freight, and accessories--it turned out to be same price as a used bike when the deal was done. Hope this helps. Gwen Mark Kitchell wrote on 6/22/2004, 12:03 PM: > I am helping a friend buy a Vino 125. I have never > bought a new veichle before so I have a question. > > The MSRP is $2299 and the dealership wants $2997 out > the door (taxes, tag, freight, setup). > > How much of this extra $$ is bullsh**t? Setup for a > scooter should be about 5 minutes. Tags? Don't you > but your own tags? Taxes? Isn't that paid at the > DMV? > > Thanks > > Mark > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 22 17:16:58 2004 Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 14:16:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Leon Begeman Subject: Re: chain lube redux To: dan , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- dan wrote: > As a side note, anyone made a homemade scottoiler? Yes. But it isn't automatic. It's just a pump type oil can with tubing connected to the spout. The tubing goes into a Y-connector. The upper part of the tubing after the Y is open to the air so that when you pump oil into the tubing it has somewhere to go (pump the oil into the tubing as a reservoir, not out into the air.) The lower part goes down to the chain. At the sprocket, use a piece of coat-hanger (bailing wire for the old-timers) to shape the tube so it stays in place next to the sprocket. Finally, put a restrictor in the line so the oil takes a while to dribble out onto the chain. Every once in a while, give the can a few pumps to fill the line with oil. Do it more often on dirt roads and in the rain. Every couple of thousand miles or so, fill the oil can with left-over motor oil (steal it from the lawn mower or wife's car so you don't have to dribble expensive Mobil 1 on the chain.) Leon. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 22 21:24:54 2004 Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 21:24:25 -0400 From: Dale Horstman To: Kirk Roy CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: chain lube redux Kirk Roy wrote: > but prefer the types of bikes they put > chains on so shafties or belts are out. Now I can relate to this... Some of those sporty-type bikes are very cool. I just wish some of them were shaftie-equipped. A Gentleman's Sportbike, so to speak. > Last time I washed a bike it was stolen > that night so I learned my lesson... That truly sucks. Sorry. -- Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark) Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX '98 Concours - BugSlayer Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth '99 Concours - Grape Nehi CM #001 NRA IBA COG '82 GS850G The Mason Dixon 20-20 Endurance Rally: The Hole Dam Rally Come join us in 2005: http://www.md2020.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 22 22:47:19 2004 Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 22:45:35 -0400 To: From: Bob Meyer Subject: Off list for a while >I'll be unsubscribing for a couple of weeks. I'm of to Japan for almost >two weeks, the to Bejing, China for a couple of days. Not on a bike, I'm >afraid, but I'll try to take pics of any interesting rides I see. Bob Meyer, STOC # 1157 '92 ST1100, Candy Glory Red '02 ST1100 A, Candy Wineberry Red '02 919, Asphalt "Attack Life. It's going to kill you anyway." From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 22 23:45:54 2004 Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 22:45:47 -0500 To: mike@XXXXXX, Thomas Jordan , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Sean Jordan Subject: Anti-Harley site Haven't gotten past the opening page, but I love it already! http://www.goingfaster.com/angst/ - Sean Jordan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 23 00:24:16 2004 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Dale Horstman , Kirk Roy Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: chain lube redux Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 00:26:44 -0400 Buells have belt drives and some of the beamers/guzzi's have shaft drives. Maybe not the typical sport bike but definetly on the sportier end of the spectrum. That R1150RS looks pretty sweet and it's a shaft. Regards, Rob On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 21:24:25 -0400, Dale Horstman wrote > Kirk Roy wrote: > > > but prefer the types of bikes they put > > chains on so shafties or belts are out. > > Now I can relate to this... Some of those > sporty-type bikes are very cool. I just wish > some of them were shaftie-equipped. A Gentleman's > Sportbike, so to speak. > > > Last time I washed a bike it was stolen > > that night so I learned my lesson... > > That truly sucks. Sorry. > > -- > Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark) > > Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX '98 Concours - BugSlayer > Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth '99 Concours - Grape Nehi > CM #001 NRA IBA COG '82 GS850G > > The Mason Dixon 20-20 Endurance Rally: The Hole Dam Rally > Come join us in 2005: http://www.md2020.org -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 23 00:25:00 2004 Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 00:29:19 -0400 Subject: Re: chain lube redux To: Leon Begeman Cc: dan , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "garcia oliver" Leon Begeman writes: >--- dan wrote: >> As a side note, anyone made a homemade scottoiler? > >Yes. But it isn't automatic. Mine was automatic. One version used a screw-type pinch clamp, another used a screw-type aquarium air pump valve. Set the drip speed to what you want. The problem was, you had to remember to turn them off when you weren't riding, else when you came back there was a puddle and a couple of really well-oiled links. This was before vacuum operated petcocks, which would avoid this problem. However, a more general problem is that oil dripped onto a fast-moving chain gets immediately flung off, making these devices pretty close to worthless. imo. A better solution would be an enclosed drive chain, preferably running in an oil bath. Such a chain might outlast the bike's engine. --garcia "It seemed like a good idea...at the time." > > >It's just a pump type oil can with tubing connected to >the spout. The tubing goes into a Y-connector. The >upper part of the tubing after the Y is open to the >air so that when you pump oil into the tubing it has >somewhere to go (pump the oil into the tubing as a >reservoir, not out into the air.) The lower part goes >down to the chain. At the sprocket, use a piece of >coat-hanger (bailing wire for the old-timers) to shape >the tube so it stays in place next to the sprocket. >Finally, put a restrictor in the line so the oil takes >a while to dribble out onto the chain. > >Every once in a while, give the can a few pumps to >fill the line with oil. Do it more often on dirt >roads and in the rain. Every couple of thousand miles >or so, fill the oil can with left-over motor oil >(steal it from the lawn mower or wife's car so you >don't have to dribble expensive Mobil 1 on the chain.) > >Leon. > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 23 09:11:55 2004 From: Stephen Miller Subject: Re: chain lube redux Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 09:11:45 -0400 To: DC-Cycles FJR1300. Me want. On Jun 22, 2004, at 9:24 PM, Dale Horstman wrote: > > > Now I can relate to this... Some of those > sporty-type bikes are very cool. I just wish > some of them were shaftie-equipped. A Gentleman's > Sportbike, so to speak. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 23 09:11:57 2004 Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 09:11:51 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: cvkgpena@XXXXXX Reply-To: cvkgpena@XXXXXX To: Mark Kitchell , DC Cycles Subject: Re: MSRP vs Out the Door Mark, FWIW, when I bought my CBR600RR (new) from MFI down in Woodbridge, I paid ~$500 less than MSRP as my out the door price -- tax, tags, title, prep, etc. So I would definitely bargain. Call around and get some quotes from other dealers. See if the dealer you're talking to will price match. Be willing to walk. Cheers, Chuck -----Original Message----- From: Mark Kitchell Sent: Jun 22, 2004 12:03 PM To: DC Cycles Subject: MSRP vs Out the Door I am helping a friend buy a Vino 125. I have never bought a new veichle before so I have a question. The MSRP is $2299 and the dealership wants $2997 out the door (taxes, tag, freight, setup). How much of this extra $$ is bullsh**t? Setup for a scooter should be about 5 minutes. Tags? Don't you but your own tags? Taxes? Isn't that paid at the DMV? Thanks Mark __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 23 09:24:25 2004 From: Kirk Roy To: Subject: Re: chain lube redux Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 9:24:16 -0400 Order one now, you might see it before the end of the year... Not sure what the deal is with Yamaha handling these bikes that way. Kirk > From: Stephen Miller > Date: 2004/06/23 Wed AM 09:11:45 EDT > To: DC-Cycles > Subject: Re: chain lube redux > > FJR1300. Me want. > > On Jun 22, 2004, at 9:24 PM, Dale Horstman wrote: > > > > > > Now I can relate to this... Some of those > > sporty-type bikes are very cool. I just wish > > some of them were shaftie-equipped. A Gentleman's > > Sportbike, so to speak. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 23 10:44:47 2004 Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 10:44:32 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: chain lube redux On Wed, 23 Jun 2004, Stephen Miller wrote: > > FJR1300. Me want. Newer BMW K's, as well. > On Jun 22, 2004, at 9:24 PM, Dale Horstman wrote: > > > > > > Now I can relate to this... Some of those > > sporty-type bikes are very cool. I just wish > > some of them were shaftie-equipped. A Gentleman's > > Sportbike, so to speak. -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 23 11:15:23 2004 Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 11:23:17 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "Kathleen E. Miller" Subject: Re: Anti-Harley site At 11:45 PM 6/22/2004, Sean Jordan wrote: >Haven't gotten past the opening page, but I love it already! > >http://www.goingfaster.com/angst/ > >- Sean Jordan Although I don't ride an HD, have never ridden an HD, and probably never will ride an HD, this guy's "opinion" is off the charts. Arrogance and elitism aside, his claims of "superior" intelligence don't jive. He lambasts people for grammatical errors, misspelled words etc., yet makes no fewer than 17 punctuation mistakes, and four grammatical errors (in just three paragraphs of his "what to expect when you write me" page), and claims to be 5'12''. 5'12"? Yeah, and I bet noon is 11:60 to him. K.T.B. Honda Rider and Copy Editor From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 23 11:32:05 2004 From: To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Anti-Harley site Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 11:31:58 -0400 The guy has *major* issues and he's decided to use HD as his target to vent. He's pretty much a laughing stock on the net from what I've been told. He must be *real* fun to hang out with. -aki > > From: "Kathleen E. Miller" > Date: 2004/06/23 Wed AM 11:23:17 EDT > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Anti-Harley site > > At 11:45 PM 6/22/2004, Sean Jordan wrote: > >Haven't gotten past the opening page, but I love it already! > > > >http://www.goingfaster.com/angst/ > > > >- Sean Jordan > > > Although I don't ride an HD, have never ridden an HD, and probably never > will ride an HD, this guy's "opinion" is off the charts. Arrogance and > elitism aside, his claims of "superior" intelligence don't jive. He > lambasts people for grammatical errors, misspelled words etc., yet makes no > fewer than 17 punctuation mistakes, and four grammatical errors (in just > three paragraphs of his "what to expect when you write me" page), and > claims to be 5'12''. > > 5'12"? > > Yeah, and I bet noon is 11:60 to him. > > K.T.B. > Honda Rider and Copy Editor > > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 23 11:35:20 2004 Subject: RE: Re: Anti-Harley site Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 11:35:11 -0400 From: "Smith, Andrew" To: , Sure it's not just a Maddox clone site? http://maddox.xmission.com > -----Original Message----- > From: adamme1@XXXXXX [mailto:adamme1@XXXXXX] > Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2004 11:32 AM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Re: Anti-Harley site > > > The guy has *major* issues and he's decided to use HD as his > target to vent. He's pretty much a laughing stock on the net > from what I've been told. He must be *real* fun to hang out with. > > -aki > > > > > > From: "Kathleen E. Miller" > > Date: 2004/06/23 Wed AM 11:23:17 EDT > > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > Subject: Re: Anti-Harley site > > > > At 11:45 PM 6/22/2004, Sean Jordan wrote: > > >Haven't gotten past the opening page, but I love it already! > > > > > >http://www.goingfaster.com/angst/ > > > > > >- Sean Jordan > > > > > > Although I don't ride an HD, have never ridden an HD, and probably > > never will ride an HD, this guy's "opinion" is off the charts. > > Arrogance and elitism aside, his claims of "superior" intelligence > > don't jive. He lambasts people for grammatical errors, misspelled > > words etc., yet makes no fewer than 17 punctuation > mistakes, and four > > grammatical errors (in just three paragraphs of his "what to expect > > when you write me" page), and claims to be 5'12''. > > > > 5'12"? > > > > Yeah, and I bet noon is 11:60 to him. > > > > K.T.B. > > Honda Rider and Copy Editor > > > > > > > > > > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 23 12:03:08 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 12:02:56 EDT Subject: Re: Anti-Harley site To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/23/2004 11:15:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time, millerk@XXXXXX writes: > and > claims to be 5'12''. > > 5'12"? Hell I am 5'16" 4'28" And every cm. a smart ass...... John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 23 12:06:22 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 12:06:14 EDT Subject: Re: chain lube redux To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/22/2004 5:17:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mriderleon@XXXXXX writes: > The tubing goes into a Y-connector. The > upper part of the tubing after the Y is... Just poke a small hole in the countershaft seal, it will leak all over the chain. BTW I own some land on the moon I could sell you cheap. DO NOT DO THAT!!!!!!! Modern chains need so little oil/wax that I cannot imagine the need to buy or do anything more complex then an aerosol can. In addition motor oil is so thin, compared to chain oil/wax, that it will simply fly off. Even when I had non O ring chains I used 90w or "real" chain lube because motor oil just flew off onto my dates blouse (and my rear wheel.) John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC 1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European 1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles 1976, Honda CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 23 13:25:13 2004 Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 13:29:32 -0400 Subject: Re: chain lube redux To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "garcia oliver" PenguinBiker@XXXXXX writes: > In addition motor oil is so >thin, compared to chain oil/wax, that it will simply fly off. Even when I >had non >O ring chains I used 90w or "real" chain lube because motor oil just flew >off >onto my dates blouse (and my rear wheel.) I once spattered my date's white blouse like that. In a moment of inspiration (and desperation), I promptly numbered each spot, making it look like a kid's connect-the-dots puzzle. Saved the day (and my ass). From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 23 13:49:48 2004 Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 13:54:11 -0400 Subject: CX500 CDI wanted To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "garcia oliver" Hi...just in case someone has one of these laying around. 1978-81 cx (but not gl) 500. Cash money. Thanks. --garcia "I drank WHAT?" --Socrates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 23 14:30:02 2004 Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 14:29:51 -0400 From: Dale Horstman To: Kirk Roy CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: chain lube redux Kirk Roy wrote: > Order one now, you might see it before the end of the year... Not sure what the > deal is with Yamaha handling these bikes that way. They don't want to get burned again like they did when they made the GTS1000. and Stephen Miller wrote: >>FJR1300. Me want. Oh yeah, the FJR is a major big step in the right direction. Once I wear out all these Connies... Horkster -- Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark) Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX '98 Concours - BugSlayer Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth '99 Concours - Grape Nehi CM #001 NRA IBA COG '82 GS850G The Mason Dixon 20-20 Endurance Rally: The Hole Dam Rally Come join us in 2005: http://www.md2020.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 23 18:50:55 2004 From: "W.S." To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: Stand back....I've got a bike question and I'm not afraid to use it. Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 18:50:28 -0400 Just like us owners - no matter the valving they can be rattley in the head on startup. Personal experience with both wet and dry valves. Place a long wrench end against the engine head, listen to the other end (keep wrench away from plugs and leads). Valve noise should be pretty identifiable and directly related to rpm. Actually I've found more tophead valve noise after warming up/oil thinning/long trips. --- ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: > For the past few months my R6 has been making a rattling noise when I > first start it up. I put the choke on to let it warm up and hear an > intermittent rattle until it does warm up. Then the rattle goes away. > I took it to the shop and the mechanic said it sounded like the carbs > needed synced. Bill S. / DC '99 VN750 > Please put Geritol in my tank in the morning. Yum. Supposedly stops rattles. [Fear Factor Warning -- Just for Fun. Do Not Attempt This at Home.] Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 23 19:19:53 2004 From: "Lisa Goddard" To: "DC Cycles" Subject: track time Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 19:19:28 -0400 Hey Everybody, I just got back from two days on VIR North with Cornerspeed and the Mid Atlantic Ducati Club. I had a great time and managed to keep the bike mostly upright this time, unlike my trip to Beaver Run over Memorial Day weekend! I'm planning to get some track time on VIR South in the near future and someday I'll try doing the whole course at once, I'll probably get lost! Lisa Goddard '95 VFR '97 GSXR600 track bike. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 23 23:23:57 2004 Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 23:14:41 -0400 To: , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Re: Anti-Harley site >> At 11:45 PM 6/22/2004, Sean Jordan wrote: >> >Haven't gotten past the opening page, but I love it already! >> > >> >http://www.goingfaster.com/angst/ His fav quotes include these bits of nonsense: >Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube." If that was true, women would be built very differently. I figure Hunter was probably drunk and not thinking clearly when (and if) he said that. "Show me a man riding his Harley and I will show you a man with a flat on his truck." The trick here is that these aren't the same man... From the signs on the door it appears that this idiot gets his jollies from the accolades of other sad individuals just like him, and thinks that their agreement means his opinions matter to anyone else or have any actual value. He's king of his own little mud puddle, so let's let him sit there and make bubbles. There's riding to be done. Got less than 500 miles before the 5000 mile service will be due...time to look into that "trailer in a bag" thing to simplify getting it to the shop...not quite ready to rely on my own skills yet for that stuff). Anyone actually used one to move a big Harley? The web site shows pictures of Road Kings and other big bikes strapped onto them, but I'm always a little suspicious of pics on the manufacturers site...I'd rather hear from actual users. Anyone? -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 23 23:23:57 2004 Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 23:19:17 -0400 To: "Rob Sharp" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: chain lube redux Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 12:26 AM 6/23/04 -0400, Rob Sharp wrote: >spectrum. That R1150RS looks pretty sweet and it's a shaft. BMW is very clever with their designs. Is that the model they use for the Paris-Djakarta race? If so, I was really impressed when I first saw it years ago...an off-road capable bike with a long travel suspension and a shaft drive...that is also capable of high speeds on pavement too. Their design is at least as impressive as Michelin's was for the tires that could handle 160 mph on pavement, then go sand and rock racing with good traction too. You'd have thought that those were incompatible requirements (lose heat, and have aggressive tread patterns too), but they managed it well. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 23 23:23:58 2004 Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 23:25:52 -0400 To: "garcia oliver" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: chain lube redux Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 12:29 AM 6/23/04 -0400, garcia oliver wrote: >A better solution would be an enclosed drive chain, preferably running in >an oil bath. Such a chain might outlast the bike's engine. That's basically what the stock "primary" on a H-D is. A chain connecting the engine to the transmission, running in an oil bath. Since you can't move the tranny to adjust tension, there's a spring-loaded tensioning device between the two sprockets, but that's about all there is to that system. The main problem for such a system for the final drive on a sport bike would be weight and movement. The engine and transmission are fixed to the frame (and/or to each other, depending on model and year), but the rear wheel has to move relative to the transmission (unless you want to build the world's first hardtail sport bike? ;-) You'd also need really good seals to let the rear axle out of the sealed environment without letting the oil out too, but such things exist I'm sure. Given that BMW figured out how to build a dirt-bike with a shaft drive, I'm not going to say you couldn't enclose the chain, but it will take some trickiness to do it well. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 23 23:27:07 2004 Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 23:30:43 -0400 To: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: chain lube redux At 12:46 PM 6/22/04 -0700, pltrgyst@XXXXXX wrote: >--- dan wrote: > >> Anyone have one of those "laser" temperature guns? I'd be interested in >I have one, but most of the consumer models (i.e., under $100) have too wide a >sampling area to measure the temp. of something as narrow as a moto chain -- >typically a 6 inch diameter area at two feet from the gun. Tires have about as >small an area as you can effectively sample. Is this thing just picking up infrared light? If so, can't you mask off the areas you don't want to measure with something insulating? Or will that throw off the reading too much? 6" at 2' isn't all that narrow, but what is it closer up? On a stand you might be able to safely rig up a holder that could get it a lot closer than 2', right? -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 24 09:41:14 2004 From: "customtankbags" To: "Dc-Cycles" Subject: RE: chain lube redux Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 09:38:37 -0400 Unh, no. That would be the Paris-DAKAR rally. Paris-Djakarta race would take some sort of amphibious bike ;-) The BMW bike(s) for the Paris-Dakar rally were F650GS/PD and variants on the R1100GS/PD (actually only 900cc or so). BMW pulled out of the competition a few years ago. Now, KTM is dominant. Tires was/is always a trial at the PD. They are filled with 'mousse' instead of or in addition to air. Things get overheated and tires go flat. As I recall. LindaT. http://www.customtankbags.com Now - TankBags for 1800 Wings Hollywood, FL AMA IBA HSTA BMWBMW 99 R1100RT Mr. Buzzy 95 F3 Purple Haze 00 KLR250 Super Sherpa Tenzing Mike Bartman said BMW is very clever with their designs. Is that the model they use for the Paris-Djakarta race? If so, I was really impressed when I first saw it years ago...an off-road capable bike with a long travel suspension and a shaft drive...that is also capable of high speeds on pavement too. Their design is at least as impressive as Michelin's was for the tires that could handle 160 mph on pavement, then go sand and rock racing with good traction too. You'd have thought that those were incompatible requirements (lose heat, and have aggressive tread patterns too), but they managed it well. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 24 10:40:53 2004 Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 10:42:14 -0400 To: "customtankbags" , "Dc-Cycles" From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: chain lube redux At 09:38 AM 6/24/04 -0400, customtankbags wrote: >Unh, no. That would be the Paris-DAKAR rally. Paris-Djakarta race would >take some sort of amphibious bike ;-) Or several really big ramps! Thanks for the correction. Should probably avoid posting when tired I guess... Thanks for the other info too. I can't keep BMW's nomenclature straight. I know they have tour, sport, and off-road models, but the names all look so much alike it's hard to keep track of which is which. The numbers relating to engine size makes sense, but the other letters seem mostly arbitrary. Maybe they make sense in German or something. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 24 10:53:11 2004 Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 10:44:25 -0400 From: Aaron Maurer To: DC Cycles Subject: Emergency Contact Info A few years ago a rider on a PPTC group ride (pedal-bikes) crashed, landed head first on her helmet, and was knocked unconscious. No one on the ride knew who she was (other than first-name), or how to get in contact with her family/friends to let them know. Luckily, she had a cell-phone in her bag, and by using the "recent calls" feature got in touch with her sister, who got in touch with the rider's husband. Ever since that time, I've been mindful to have emergency contact info (usually a business card with a number scrawled on the back) somewhere on me when biking. I found a better solution -- http://www.cyclegadgets.com has an small packet that attaches unobtrusively to your helmet which can contain all the pertinent information. http://www.cyclegadgets.com/Products/product.asp?Item=MICS I've had one on my helmet for the better part of 6 months now with no problems -- I've forgotten it's there. The best part is, it's free. I recommend you pick one up. No reason not to. (No relation with the company other than as a happy customer.) Aaron From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 24 10:54:26 2004 Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 10:52:55 -0400 From: Aaron Maurer To: Mike Bartman , DC Cycles Subject: Re: chain lube redux On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 10:42:14 -0400, Mike Bartman wrote: > > The numbers > relating to engine size makes sense, but the other letters seem mostly > arbitrary. Maybe they make sense in German or something. > > -- Mike B. > > '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) > Right . . . because FLSTCI is self-explanatory. I have an R1150GS. R = BMW's boxer engine configuration, 1150 = engine size, GS = gelande-strasse (roughly field and street, i.e., dual sport) Kxxxxa = BMW's inline four engine config (about to change) axxxxR = roadster axxxxRS = sport-tourer axxxxS = sport axxxxRT = bigger sport tourer axxxxGT = grand tourer axxxxLT = luxury tourer (the Gold-wing looking one) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 24 11:12:12 2004 Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 11:11:31 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: chain lube redux To: DC Cycles AAron hits the nail on the head with: >Right . . . because FLSTCI is self-explanatory. [Dave] Yeah, and let's not forget their sketch Head design engine designation. panheads, knuckleheads, blockheads... Did they make a pinhead model ? Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 24 11:13:42 2004 Subject: Bartender on a bike Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 11:12:56 -0400 From: "Julian Halton" To: "Dc-Cycles" Looks like I have a new gig- The American Caf)Bé in Bethesda. This is where Chrome and Lewies used to be. As always, anyone on the list is welcome to pop in for a drink or late night food. The burgers are excellent and I say this from the perspective of a carnivore. Here is where the bike comes in. I take the bike from Arlington to Bethesda like this: - 66E to Key Bridge exit - Key Bridge make a left on Canal road - stay left, shoot down Canal road, right on Arizona - up Arizona, right on Nebraska - right on Dalecarlia Parkway - round the circle, westbound on Massachusetts - right on Little Falls road - right on Arlington road - bingo in the heart of Bethesda by Bethesda Row and Barnes & Noble on Woodmount I am a little hesitant about leaving the bike unattended for eight hours _but_ there is motorcycle parking in a nearby public garage and in the lot across the street. Riding at 2:45AM is a completely different animal- especially on that route. I have seen groundhogs, rats and a fox. On Canal road, I have seen a man walking on a jersey wall almost parallel to my head. That made me a little edgy to say the least. The sound of silence and the lack of traffic makes it seem like another planet. The first night, slightly underdressed. I let my imagination get the better of me and imagined some sort of post-apocalyptic metro area and how I would react to threats. It was a little eerie. There is a method to my madness as there is a threat. Deer. I see anywhere from six to ten on my late night return legs. Mostly I see their behinds in the air as they graze. I have seen some heavy duty antlers and also some aggressive ones pointed like a missile on a intercept course to meet my bike. This is unnerving. I know we talk about deer, but is it likely deer behavior to charge a motorcycle? Do they typically run towards an engine and light? When they startle, I have seen them dash off into the woods? Should I be concerned that my luck will run out and I am going to get smashed? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 24 11:14:08 2004 Subject: Moto accidents... Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 11:06:41 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Dc-Cycles" On the way into work today on I-66 (@0815), I noticed an accident scene on the East-bound side just past the merge point for the Dulles approach road. Red sport bike (CBR-ish) seemed to be involved, but the bike and rider were both upright. Police and paramedics on scene. Yesterday I heard a traffic update about a traffic accident involving a bike, just caught the last part, sounded as if it might have been on the Greenway. Stay safe out there... Robert From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 24 11:33:28 2004 Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 08:32:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Bartender on a bike To: Julian Halton , Dc-Cycles dude.... you might as well enjoy macarthur blvd if you're coming up the md. side of the river. arizona to macarthur. macarthur to goldsboro. goldsboro to bradley. bradley to arlington. arlington to bethesda ave. --- Julian Halton wrote: > > Looks like I have a new gig- The American Caf)Bé in > Bethesda. This is where Chrome and Lewies used to be. As > always, anyone on the list is welcome to pop in for a > drink or late night food. The burgers are excellent and > I say this from the perspective of a carnivore. > > Here is where the bike comes in. I take the bike from > Arlington to Bethesda like this: > - 66E to Key Bridge exit > - Key Bridge make a left on Canal road > - stay left, shoot down Canal road, right on Arizona > - up Arizona, right on Nebraska > - right on Dalecarlia Parkway > - round the circle, westbound on Massachusetts > - right on Little Falls road > - right on Arlington road > - bingo in the heart of Bethesda by Bethesda Row and > Barnes & Noble on Woodmount __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 24 11:49:54 2004 From: bernescut@XXXXXX To: DC-CYCLES@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Moto accidents... Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 11:49:20 -0400 I must have been a few moments behind you. I saw the red Kawasaki EX-500 propped up next to the Armco but it didn't look rashed. VDOT had a motorist assistance truck blocking the lane with flashing lights and the ambulance was pulling away with full lights and siren when I got there. There was nothing else but the stranded bike so the rider must have gone to the ER. I hope they're OK. I also turned on the radio to hear of a rider-involved MVA at the corner of Wakefield Dr. and Little River Turnpike which is just down the street from me, there was no word on the condition of the rider. On another note, I saw a rider (KLR perhaps?) in a yellow Aerostitch receiving a stern lecture from one of Virginia's finest yesterday morning on eastbound I-66, hope they only got a warning. Cedric Bernescut 2000 CBR600F4 Annandale, VA -- On the way into work today on I-66 (@0815), I noticed an accident scene on the East-bound side just past the merge point for the Dulles approach road. Red sport bike (CBR-ish) seemed to be involved, but the bike and rider were both upright. Police and paramedics on scene. Yesterday I heard a traffic update about a traffic accident involving a bike, just caught the last part, sounded as if it might have been on the Greenway. Stay safe out there... Robert From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 24 11:55:57 2004 From: To: Subject: Re: Bartender on a bike Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 11:55:49 -0400 >I know we talk about deer, but is it likely deer >behavior to charge a motorcycle? Not per se. The really fun thing about deer is that there is almost no way of predicting what they'll do in any given situation. This is a survival trait meant to confuse predators. Works on motorcyclists, too... Ask my son, Sean. Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 24 12:02:42 2004 Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 12:06:01 -0400 To: Aaron Maurer , DC Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: chain lube redux At 10:52 AM 6/24/04 -0400, Aaron Maurer wrote: >On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 10:42:14 -0400, Mike Bartman wrote: >> >> The numbers >> relating to engine size makes sense, but the other letters seem mostly >> arbitrary. Maybe they make sense in German or something. >> >> -- Mike B. >> >> '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) >> > >Right . . . because FLSTCI is self-explanatory. "FLSTCI" is the model designation/description for Harley to use. "Softail Heritage Classic" is the name of the model for public use. BMW only seems to have the model designation/description form, which is the problem I was referring to. They don't have anything equivalent to "Heritage Softail Classic", or "Road King Custom", or "Dyna Wide Glide", which are a lot easier to remember than "FLSTC", "FLHRS", or "FXDWG"...unless you are one of those people who can remember arbitrary sequences of characters easily (in which case you will *love* Unix commands!). I'm not one of those folks (I had to go look up the designation forms for the models I just listed...). Thanks for the "chart". I'll save it for future reference. If I was going to get another bike, a BMW would be near the top of the list of options. They have some that are big enough to fit me, and they are well-engineered from all reports. I'd probably be interested in their "on-road/off road" model. Don't expect it to happen any time soon though...one bike is enough to fill what time I have available for riding at the moment, and I don't have anywhere handy to ride off road around here. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 24 12:12:58 2004 Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 12:16:20 -0400 To: "Julian Halton" , "Dc-Cycles" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Bartender on a bike At 11:12 AM 6/24/04 -0400, Julian Halton wrote: >talk about deer, but is it likely deer behavior to charge a motorcycle? Not that I've ever heard of. They are more likely to run away, or freeze in place. The greatest danger lies in hitting them when they freeze up right in the roadway, or while they are crossing it in a panic (perhaps after being startled by someone coming the other way). They (the males anyway) can easily weigh as much as a large person. >Do they typically run towards an engine and light? No, they are either going to run away, or freeze, probably staring at the light trying to figure out what to do about it. Of course, like with any other animal (including people), they can get confused, panic and do all sorts of stupid things, so never say never. >Should I be concerned that my luck will run out and I am going to get smashed? Yes. Solution is the same for any road hazard though: don't outdrive your vision or your stopping distance. I.e. be prepared and capable of stopping in the area you can see ahead of you at all times. If you ride like that, deer shouldn't be a problem. Most people don't ride like that though. :-/ -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 24 12:16:23 2004 From: Han Park To: DC-CYCLES@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Moto accidents... Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 12:16:56 -0400 I passed by on 66 around 8:50-8:55 and there was still a police car, fire truck and VDOT truck there, along with the EX-500. I guess they were figuring out what to do with the bike. han -----Original Message----- From: bernescut@XXXXXX [mailto:bernescut@XXXXXX] Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 11:49 AM To: DC-CYCLES@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Moto accidents... I must have been a few moments behind you. I saw the red Kawasaki EX-500 propped up next to the Armco but it didn't look rashed. VDOT had a motorist assistance truck blocking the lane with flashing lights and the ambulance was pulling away with full lights and siren when I got there. There was nothing else but the stranded bike so the rider must have gone to the ER. I hope they're OK. I also turned on the radio to hear of a rider-involved MVA at the corner of Wakefield Dr. and Little River Turnpike which is just down the street from me, there was no word on the condition of the rider. On another note, I saw a rider (KLR perhaps?) in a yellow Aerostitch receiving a stern lecture from one of Virginia's finest yesterday morning on eastbound I-66, hope they only got a warning. Cedric Bernescut 2000 CBR600F4 Annandale, VA -- On the way into work today on I-66 (@0815), I noticed an accident scene on the East-bound side just past the merge point for the Dulles approach road. Red sport bike (CBR-ish) seemed to be involved, but the bike and rider were both upright. Police and paramedics on scene. Yesterday I heard a traffic update about a traffic accident involving a bike, just caught the last part, sounded as if it might have been on the Greenway. Stay safe out there... Robert From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 24 12:17:52 2004 Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 09:17:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Shock Adjustment Question To: DC Cycles I have a Fox shock on my VFR with about 25,000 miles on it. I have felt is bottoming out recently, especially with a passenger aboard. Is adjustment limited to tightening the spring (preload). If problem persists do I need to do a rebuild? I got this Fox with the hopes that adjustment of the preload would be easy. Unfortunatley, its not easy at all so I never do it. THanks __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 24 12:21:26 2004 Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 09:21:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Bartender on a bike To: Mike Bartman , Julian Halton , Dc-Cycles i can't help but answer here. mike, i suggest you read this month's mcn on deer.... which does a better job than you of explaining what deer do and don't do. where do you get this shit?!?! don't tell me. i know already. it's dark and yucky there. i was t-boned by a deer last year at 5mph as i carefully rolled past a group. they're idiots and cannot be predicted. --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 11:12 AM 6/24/04 -0400, Julian Halton wrote: > > >talk about deer, but is it likely deer behavior to > charge a motorcycle? > > Not that I've ever heard of. They are more likely to run > away, or freeze > in place. The greatest danger lies in hitting them when > they freeze up > right in the roadway, or while they are crossing it in a > panic (perhaps > after being startled by someone coming the other way). > They (the males > anyway) can easily weigh as much as a large person. > > >Do they typically run towards an engine and light? > > No, they are either going to run away, or freeze, > probably staring at the > light trying to figure out what to do about it. Of > course, like with any > other animal (including people), they can get confused, > panic and do all > sorts of stupid things, so never say never. > > >Should I be concerned that my luck will run out and I am > going to get > smashed? > > Yes. Solution is the same for any road hazard though: > don't outdrive your > vision or your stopping distance. I.e. be prepared and > capable of stopping > in the area you can see ahead of you at all times. If > you ride like that, > deer shouldn't be a problem. Most people don't ride like > that though. :-/ __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 24 12:37:10 2004 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" Cc: "'horkster@XXXXXX'" , "'eternity23@XXXXXX'" , "'millerk@XXXXXX'" Subject: chain lube redux; Anti-Harley site: Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 12:39:33 -0400 chain lube redux: Kirk Roy wrote: " . .but prefer the types of bikes they put chains on so shafties or belts are out." Dale Horked up: "Now I can relate to this... Some of those sporty-type bikes are very cool. I just wish some of them were shaftie-equipped. A Gentleman's Sportbike, so to speak." [Carl]: "Everybody knows" that a shaft-drive bike can't wheelie and yew can't counter steer 'em either. :^) [KR]: Last time I washed a bike it was stolen that night so I learned my lesson... [Carl]: True story, Last year on the way to Deals Gap, a newbie went ditch-diving with his Connie on the BRP in North Carolina. Being a proper Philly policeman, he wished to restore his new Connie to it's previous pristine poseur grandeur. My buddy John, on a 1985 V65 Sabre, accompanied him to the car wash. Now you got to understand, mid-eighties Sabres wear their bugs and spooge with pride. As soon as John steered the Sabre in the car-wash parking lot, it threw him breaking his left fibula. In true Maggot tradition, John refused a cast but insisted on a splint that would permit him to shift. He then rode his Sabre back to north of Philly. BTW, his bike's name is "Fugly" Anti-Harley site: Jordan Said: "Haven't gotten past the opening page, but I love it already!" [Carl]: Sean, FYI, here are pictures of your old 'Ceptor: Post Dragon and pre 160 Lynch, KY. Miller Carped: " . . . Arrogance and elitism aside, his claims of "superior" intelligence don't jive. He lambasts people for grammatical errors, misspelled words etc., yet makes no fewer than 17 punctuation mistakes, and four grammatical errors (in just three paragraphs of his "what to expect when you write me" page), and claims to be 5'12''. 5'12"? Yeah, and I bet noon is 11:60 to him. K.T.B. Honda Rider and Copy Editor" [Carl]: "Awww, you just don't understand." 8^D Squid bashing is also fun. Carl in Bethesda (Texas Aggie '62; '85 Sabre driver - Knows pejorative and honorific jokes.) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 24 12:43:40 2004 From: "Tom Faigle" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: dc-cycles digest for 06/23/04 Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 16:31:52 +0000 -----Original Message----- From: Mark Kitchell Sent: Jun 22, 2004 12:03 PM To: DC Cycles Subject: MSRP vs Out the Door I am helping a friend buy a Vino 125. I have never bought a new veichle before so I have a question. The MSRP is $2299 and the dealership wants $2997 out the door (taxes, tag, freight, setup). How much of this extra $$ is bullsh**t? Setup for a scooter should be about 5 minutes. Tags? Don't you but your own tags? Taxes? Isn't that paid at the DMV? Thanks Mark My Reply to Mark Mark, Actually setup on some bikes can take a couple of hours. Some come with the front wheel off and requiring installation. Most require mirrors, windscreens, and other small items installed, and then there is the removal from the crate along that can take 15-30 minutes. Oh yea, and I'm sure you don't need to have the batter put in. So your estimate of 5 minutes is way off. More like 1 to 2 hours for the typical bike. Tom _________________________________________________________________ Watch the online reality show Mixed Messages with a friend and enter to win a trip to NY http://www.msnmessenger-download.click-url.com/go/onm00200497ave/direct/01/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 24 13:41:06 2004 Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 12:41:01 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Sean Jordan Subject: Re: Bartender on a bike Julian asked > >talk about deer, but is it likely deer behavior to charge a motorcycle? Deer are more likely to do what you least expect, and what you least want to happen. Deer will not necessarily move in any way that increases their chances for survival. In fact, they quite often do just the opposite. > >Do they typically run towards an engine and light? Assume that the deer is going to do the worst possible thing - jump in front of you, jump over you, jump INTO you. The first in that series has happened to numerous listers, lister Colin Fagan had the second happen on one of his rides once, and the third has happened to me personally. If you know you are riding past deer, SLOW DOWN! Move more towards the center of the lane and keep your eyes peeled. If you only see one deer, assume there is more than one - one fairly consistent habit that deer have is that they tend to follow the lead of whichever deer spazzes out first. If one runs towards you, expect more. - Sean Jordan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 24 14:04:27 2004 From: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" To: "'Aaron Maurer'" , DC Cycles Subject: RE: Emergency Contact Info Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 14:03:52 -0400 I highly recommend this to anyone who rides alone or in groups to get one. I got some for my in-laws who ride as well. -----Original Message----- From: Aaron Maurer [mailto:amaurer@XXXXXX] Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 10:44 AM To: DC Cycles Subject: Emergency Contact Info A few years ago a rider on a PPTC group ride (pedal-bikes) crashed, landed head first on her helmet, and was knocked unconscious. No one on the ride knew who she was (other than first-name), or how to get in contact with her family/friends to let them know. Luckily, she had a cell-phone in her bag, and by using the "recent calls" feature got in touch with her sister, who got in touch with the rider's husband. Ever since that time, I've been mindful to have emergency contact info (usually a business card with a number scrawled on the back) somewhere on me when biking. I found a better solution -- http://www.cyclegadgets.com has an small packet that attaches unobtrusively to your helmet which can contain all the pertinent information. http://www.cyclegadgets.com/Products/product.asp?Item=MICS I've had one on my helmet for the better part of 6 months now with no problems -- I've forgotten it's there. The best part is, it's free. I recommend you pick one up. No reason not to. (No relation with the company other than as a happy customer.) Aaron From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 24 14:18:54 2004 From: To: "Dc-Cycles" Subject: Re: Re: Bartender on a bike Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 14:18:47 -0400 > > From: Mike Bartman > Date: 2004/06/24 Thu PM 12:16:20 EDT > To: "Julian Halton" , > "Dc-Cycles" > Subject: Re: Bartender on a bike > > At 11:12 AM 6/24/04 -0400, Julian Halton wrote: > > >talk about deer, but is it likely deer behavior to charge a motorcycle? > > Not that I've ever heard of. They are more likely to run away, or freeze > in place. The greatest danger lies in hitting them when they freeze up > right in the roadway, or while they are crossing it in a panic (perhaps > after being startled by someone coming the other way). They (the males > anyway) can easily weigh as much as a large person. > > >Do they typically run towards an engine and light? > > No, they are either going to run away, or freeze, probably staring at the > light trying to figure out what to do about it. Of course, like with any > other animal (including people), they can get confused, panic and do all > sorts of stupid things, so never say never. > > >Should I be concerned that my luck will run out and I am going to get > smashed? > > Yes. Solution is the same for any road hazard though: don't outdrive your > vision or your stopping distance. I.e. be prepared and capable of stopping > in the area you can see ahead of you at all times. If you ride like that, > deer shouldn't be a problem. Most people don't ride like that though. :-/ > > > -- Mike B. Many years ago, I had a deer freak out and try and jump *between* my headlights on my Camaro. Didn't work. Wiped out my front end but the deer flew over my hood, roof and trunk and literally left a trail of shit down the middle of my car. Deer are like 4 legged cagers with a learners permit. Never take them for granted and they'll do absolutely anything at any time for no reason whatsoever. Also, deer rarely travel by themselves. If you see a deer dart across the street, there's usually at least one more that will be following it. -aki From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 24 14:22:50 2004 Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 11:22:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: chain lube redux To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I can tell you one instance of a friend of mine with a BMW LT that BMW finally bought back from him after many numerous problems over a two year period. Of course this was the first model year of that bike. Glenn --- Mike Bartman wrote: , a BMW would be near the top of > the list of options. > They have some that are big enough to fit me, and > they are well-engineered > from all reports. I'd probably be interested in __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 24 14:41:58 2004 Subject: Deer Avoidance Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 14:41:53 -0400 From: "Julian Halton" To: "Sean Jordan" , My life experience may not transfer to the case of deer on the side of the road, but in general when you need to move fast, it helps to have a running start. The faster you are going, the faster you will be able to get out of harm's way. If I slow down to a next to nothing 5-10 mph because I see one deer and then another charges me I have to be that much quicker in order to get out of the way. I am not saying I want to outride my stopping\sight distance...I am just wondering why applying throttle to clear the area is not a good option. I have seen what deer, elk and even a moose can do. I don't want to be a target for an angry nocturnal ruminant. What I am curious as to what the group will say is: - avoid area entirely - ride slowly Etc... I can stop if one is in front of me that is not my concern. It has already happened. My concern is the streaking missile from the dark on an interception trajectory. That is my worry. -----Original Message----- From: Sean Jordan [mailto:eternity23@XXXXXX] Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 1:41 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Bartender on a bike Julian asked > >talk about deer, but is it likely deer behavior to charge a motorcycle? Deer are more likely to do what you least expect, and what you least want to happen. Deer will not necessarily move in any way that increases their chances for survival. In fact, they quite often do just the opposite. > >Do they typically run towards an engine and light? Assume that the deer is going to do the worst possible thing - jump in front of you, jump over you, jump INTO you. The first in that series has happened to numerous listers, lister Colin Fagan had the second happen on one of his rides once, and the third has happened to me personally. If you know you are riding past deer, SLOW DOWN! Move more towards the center of the lane and keep your eyes peeled. If you only see one deer, assume there is more than one - one fairly consistent habit that deer have is that they tend to follow the lead of whichever deer spazzes out first. If one runs towards you, expect more. - Sean Jordan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 24 14:44:52 2004 Subject: RE: Deer Avoidance Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 14:44:48 -0400 From: "Julian Halton" To: To use one of my least favorite expressions: As a "data point" what is the top speed of a deer? I am going to google this. -----Original Message----- From: Julian Halton [mailto:julian@XXXXXX] Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 2:42 PM To: Sean Jordan; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Deer Avoidance My life experience may not transfer to the case of deer on the side of the road, but in general when you need to move fast, it helps to have a running start. The faster you are going, the faster you will be able to get out of harm's way. If I slow down to a next to nothing 5-10 mph because I see one deer and then another charges me I have to be that much quicker in order to get out of the way. I am not saying I want to outride my stopping\sight distance...I am just wondering why applying throttle to clear the area is not a good option. I have seen what deer, elk and even a moose can do. I don't want to be a target for an angry nocturnal ruminant. What I am curious as to what the group will say is: - avoid area entirely - ride slowly Etc... I can stop if one is in front of me that is not my concern. It has already happened. My concern is the streaking missile from the dark on an interception trajectory. That is my worry. -----Original Message----- From: Sean Jordan [mailto:eternity23@XXXXXX] Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 1:41 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Bartender on a bike Julian asked > >talk about deer, but is it likely deer behavior to charge a motorcycle? Deer are more likely to do what you least expect, and what you least want to happen. Deer will not necessarily move in any way that increases their chances for survival. In fact, they quite often do just the opposite. > >Do they typically run towards an engine and light? Assume that the deer is going to do the worst possible thing - jump in front of you, jump over you, jump INTO you. The first in that series has happened to numerous listers, lister Colin Fagan had the second happen on one of his rides once, and the third has happened to me personally. If you know you are riding past deer, SLOW DOWN! Move more towards the center of the lane and keep your eyes peeled. If you only see one deer, assume there is more than one - one fairly consistent habit that deer have is that they tend to follow the lead of whichever deer spazzes out first. If one runs towards you, expect more. - Sean Jordan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 24 15:01:27 2004 Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 15:01:23 -0400 From: Aaron Maurer To: Julian Halton , DC Cycles Subject: Re: Deer Avoidance I can't disagree more with your logic. 1) If you're hit by a deer, or if you hit a deer, you are likely to go down. If you go down, you are much less likely to be injured if you're going slow than if you're going fast (energy = mass * velocity^2 and all that). 2) I don't think deer are going to "charge" you. They're not angry -- they're scared. They are in the "flight" mode, not "fight." Thus it's not that you have to escape, you have to avoid. I find that it is much easier to see something, identify the risk, and react to avoid it when you are going slower, as opposed to faster. Of course, just to show that we're all blow-hard know-nothings, I hit a deer at 60 mph (two up) last year on River Rd. It ran into my side from the ditch (I never saw it), the cylinder head hit it, and I -- very LUCKILY -- didn't go down. Now I try to avoid the area around dusk/dawn, and certainly ride more slowly and alertly. Aaron On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 14:41:53 -0400, Julian Halton wrote: > > > My life experience may not transfer to the case of deer on the side of > the road, but in general when you need to move fast, it helps to have a > running start. The faster you are going, the faster you will be able to > get out of harm's way. > > If I slow down to a next to nothing 5-10 mph because I see one deer and > then another charges me I have to be that much quicker in order to get > out of the way. > I am not saying I want to outride my stopping\sight distance...I am just > wondering why applying throttle to clear the area is not a good option. > > I have seen what deer, elk and even a moose can do. I don't want to be a > target for an angry nocturnal ruminant. What I am curious as to what the > group will say is: > - avoid area entirely > - ride slowly > Etc... > I can stop if one is in front of me that is not my concern. It has > already happened. > My concern is the streaking missile from the dark on an interception > trajectory. > That is my worry. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sean Jordan [mailto:eternity23@XXXXXX] > Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 1:41 PM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Bartender on a bike > > Julian asked > > > >talk about deer, but is it likely deer behavior to charge a > motorcycle? > > Deer are more likely to do what you least expect, and what you least > want to happen. Deer will not necessarily move in any way that increases > their chances for survival. In fact, they quite often do just the > opposite. > > > >Do they typically run towards an engine and light? > > Assume that the deer is going to do the worst possible thing - jump in > front of you, jump over you, jump INTO you. The first in that series has > happened to numerous listers, lister Colin Fagan had the second happen > on one of his rides once, and the third has happened to me personally. > > If you know you are riding past deer, SLOW DOWN! Move more towards the > center of the lane and keep your eyes peeled. If you only see one deer, > assume there is more than one - one fairly consistent habit that deer > have is that they tend to follow the lead of whichever deer spazzes out > first. > If one runs towards you, expect more. > > - Sean Jordan > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 24 15:29:04 2004 Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 15:29:18 -0400 To: "DC Cycles" From: Troutman Subject: Iron Butt Record http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=573&e=6&u=/nm/life_biker_dc MIAMI (Reuters) - A U.S. motorcyclist made the 5,632-mile trek from the northernmost road in Alaska to the southernmost tip of Florida in 100 hours and set a transcontinental record certified by the "Iron Butt Association" of bike enthusiasts. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles. One who does not know the enemy but knows himself will sometimes win, sometimes lose. One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself will be in danger in every battle. - Sun Tzu From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 24 15:34:41 2004 Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 15:34:36 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: RE: Deer Avoidance To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >To use one of my least favorite expressions: > >As a "data point" what is the top speed of a deer? I am >going to google this. [Dave] While I'm not sure of their theoretical top speed, I do know for a fact that they can accelerate from zero to ruin your day in less than 2 seconds. I remember reading they can perform (adults) a 6 foot vertical leap. I believe it. One pranced upon me walking out of the woods a few years back, and promptly bounded away in 3 or 4 steps... or more like leaps. U.F.B. OTOH, while their hooves work great in the dirt, just like knobbies, they have unsure footing on hard surfaces, like asphalt. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Julian Halton [mailto:julian@XXXXXX] >Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 2:42 PM >To: Sean Jordan; dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Deer Avoidance > > >My life experience may not transfer to the case of deer on the side of >the road, but in general when you need to move fast, it helps to have a >running start. The faster you are going, the faster you will be able to >get out of harm's way. > >If I slow down to a next to nothing 5-10 mph because I see one deer and >then another charges me I have to be that much quicker in order to get >out of the way. >I am not saying I want to outride my stopping\sight distance...I am just >wondering why applying throttle to clear the area is not a good option. > >I have seen what deer, elk and even a moose can do. I don't want to be a >target for an angry nocturnal ruminant. What I am curious as to what the >group will say is: >- avoid area entirely >- ride slowly >Etc... >I can stop if one is in front of me that is not my concern. It has >already happened. >My concern is the streaking missile from the dark on an interception >trajectory. >That is my worry. > > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Sean Jordan [mailto:eternity23@XXXXXX] >Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 1:41 PM >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: Bartender on a bike > >Julian asked > > >> >talk about deer, but is it likely deer behavior to charge a >motorcycle? > >Deer are more likely to do what you least expect, and what you least >want to happen. Deer will not necessarily move in any way that increases >their chances for survival. In fact, they quite often do just the >opposite. > >> >Do they typically run towards an engine and light? > >Assume that the deer is going to do the worst possible thing - jump in >front of you, jump over you, jump INTO you. The first in that series has >happened to numerous listers, lister Colin Fagan had the second happen >on one of his rides once, and the third has happened to me personally. > >If you know you are riding past deer, SLOW DOWN! Move more towards the >center of the lane and keep your eyes peeled. If you only see one deer, >assume there is more than one - one fairly consistent habit that deer >have is that they tend to follow the lead of whichever deer spazzes out >first. >If one runs towards you, expect more. > >- Sean Jordan > > > > > > > > > Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 24 16:26:14 2004 Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 16:29:48 -0400 To: Troutman , "DC Cycles" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Iron Butt Record At 03:29 PM 6/24/04 -0400, Troutman wrote: >MIAMI (Reuters) - A U.S. motorcyclist made the 5,632-mile trek from the >northernmost road in Alaska to the southernmost tip of Florida in 100 hours "Eagan said he endured suspicious border patrol agents, traffic snarls and torrential thunderstorms but completed the trek without any speeding tickets." "'You don't have to really ride that fast to do a record like that. You just have to stay on the bike and be efficient,' he said." Not that fast? Yeah, right.... If he didn't stop at all, he'd have to average 56.32 mph for the entire trip. given that he said he hit traffic snarls, border crossing suspicion, an accident that required field repairs, napped, stopped for gas, and stopped for a tire swap, his actual average speed would have to be higher than that. How much higher depends on how long all his stops took, but it doesn't take a very long period at 0 mph to bring the average speed down considerably...and to make it up you need to be going well above average for a while. I don't have actual data, but some rough estimates might help show what I mean. Let's say he napped a total of 3 hours a day, and stopped every 400 miles for gas (it said he had an auxiliary tank, but not how big), ate while riding, and that his tire change took an hour. I'm trying to be generous here. That works out to 12 hours of napping, 14 gas/pee stops (10 minutes each?) for a 2.5 hour total time, plus the 1 hour to swap treads, maybe 30 minutes to repair the bike after the truck accident, and 30 minutes at the border crossing, or 16.5 hours of the 100 not spent riding. That leaves 83.5 hours to cover 5632 miles, or ~67.5 mph *average*. While that's technically speeding *almost* everywhere in the USA, you aren't likely to get a ticket for that...except that that figure doesn't take into account time spent going slower than that due to traffic, weather, gravel roads, etc.. Every time he had to slow below that speed for some reason he'd have had to spend some time going above that speed to make up for it, and that would put him into ticket territory. Even if it was just a warning ticket, it would take 10 or 15 minutes to handle at best...meanwhile not moving. I think he was just lucky there. If any of my estimated figures are too generous, his speed would have to have been even higher. For instance, if his pee/gas/grab food to eat on the road breaks took 15 minutes, rather than 10, that would add an hour to his stopped time, and require an average speed of 68 mph. If he only got 350 miles between gas stops, or if he napped an extra hour a day or whatever, it gets worse too. I don't see how he could manage such a trip without breaking the law at least a bit, even with careful planning to avoid as much traffic as possible. How much he had to break it would depend on how far off my guesses are. Regardless of all that, it's still one impressive ride. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 24 16:29:54 2004 Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 15:29:54 -0500 To: DC-cycles@XXXXXX From: Sean Jordan Subject: Re: Deer Avoidance Julian wrote: >My life experience may not transfer to the case of deer on the side of >the road, but in general when you need to move fast, it helps to have a >running start. The faster you are going, the faster you will be able to >get out of harm's way. It this case, the aforementioned experience most definitely *does not* transfer! The last thing you want is to be accelerating when dealing with the Giant Forest Rodents!!! Your best bet, if possible, is to avoid entirely any roads that have deer in the immediate vicinity on a regular basis - especially at night. If you know that deer are nearby, REDUCE YOUR SPEED! Deer *do not* charge/attack motorists. What you want is to be able to stop in a hurry if they jump in front of you. Even if they jump into you, you're much better off at a slower speed than a faster one. >If I slow down to a next to nothing 5-10 mph because I see one deer and >then another charges me I have to be that much quicker in order to get >out of the way. >I am not saying I want to outride my stopping\sight distance...I am just >wondering why applying throttle to clear the area is not a good option. Ok, but if you're going 45mph and the deer jump in front of you, into you, whatever, you're super-screwed. Why is clearing the area with your throttle not a good idea? Why spook the deer?! That sets them off! You want them to stay exactly where they are. Your best bet is to coast by them, or upshift so that your engine is turning at a slower speed, and making less noise. A few years ago, I had just gotten off of work, and was still in my riding gear. My father (fellow lister Michael J.) wanted to pick his bike up from Loudoun Motorsports, and since I was still suited up, we hopped in the car to get his bike. I decided to take the back-roads home from Leesburg, and was on Ryan Rd. on the backside of Ashburn. A car coming down the road flashed its lights at me, and I slowed down, scanning the road ahead for whatever might be waiting for me. I saw two deer grazing on the side of the road, on the other side of a ditch, and slowed down to about 25mpg, and moved to the center of the road. Coming abreast of the deer, they were unspooked, and since I was right beside them, I figured they weren't going to do anything, and wicked on the throttle. Bad idea. Suddenly, something slams into my chest, and the world starts going black. Oh shit. I start to relax for the inevitable crash, but the little black stars at the periphery of my vision are fading away, and I'm still in control of the motorcycle, heading straight down the middle of the road. Neat shit - hold that though . . . I can't breathe! The antlered rat managed to knock the wind out of me, and I am now desperate for a place to pull over. A small gravel driveway appears on my left, and I pull in, throw down the kickstand, and roll off the bike, waiting for my diaphragm to let go of the death grip on my lungs so I can breathe again. A car pulls in behind me, and a man with a very thick Scottish accent leaps out of his car, asking me if I'm alright. They came over a hill behind me just in time to see a deer leap over the ditch, and crash into the right side of my chest, head first. The bike sustained a dented and scratched tank, and I had a small bruise on my right shoulder. Moral of the story? Stay away from deer. If you cannot, DO NOT give them a reason to spazz out. - Sean Jordan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 24 16:39:16 2004 Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 16:38:41 -0400 To: "DC Cycles" From: Troutman Subject: Re: Iron Butt Record At 04:29 PM 6/24/2004, Mike Bartman wrote: >If he didn't stop at all, he'd have to average 56.32 mph for the entire >trip. given that he said he hit traffic snarls, border crossing suspicion, >an accident that required field repairs, napped, stopped for gas, and >stopped for a tire swap, his actual average speed would have to be higher >than that. How much higher depends on how long all his stops took, but it >doesn't take a very long period at 0 mph to bring the average speed down >considerably...and to make it up you need to be going well above average >for a while. Anecdotal evidence : Using my eMap GPS on a trip 2 weeks ago to North Carolina, we averaged 56 MPH while moving and 54 MPH including our gas stops and food. This was across a 7.5 hour trip. I'd say the speedo was sitting on 65 to 70 for most of the trip, with a few triple digit spikes. Keep in mind that if he went through Montana he could do a legal 80 across the state (or something like that - no longer unlimited anyway). ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles. One who does not know the enemy but knows himself will sometimes win, sometimes lose. One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself will be in danger in every battle. - Sun Tzu From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 24 17:02:51 2004 Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 17:06:30 -0400 To: Troutman , "DC Cycles" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Iron Butt Record At 04:38 PM 6/24/04 -0400, Troutman wrote: >At 04:29 PM 6/24/2004, Mike Bartman wrote: >Using my eMap GPS on a trip 2 weeks ago to North Carolina, we averaged 56 >MPH while moving and 54 MPH including our gas stops and food. This was >across a 7.5 hour trip. I'd say the speedo was sitting on 65 to 70 for >most of the trip, with a few triple digit spikes. It doesn't take long at 100 mph to make up for some stops... ;-) He just said you didn't have to ride fast to do that trip, just keep at it. I disagree...but how fast is "fast" may vary from person to person I guess. I know people who consider 70-75 to be "normal speed" for a long trip...though cops they've happened upon while doing that considered it "too fast". >Keep in mind that if he went through Montana he could do a legal 80 across >the state (or something like that - no longer unlimited anyway). Yeah, they had to post limits, other than "reasonable and proper", a few years ago. Most rural areas are posted at 80 from what I've seen out there, but they don't seem to worry about enforcing it much. They only posted them at all because the feds insisted. The towns are usually pretty slow though...like 15-25 in the really small ones (which describes most of them ;-), and they do enforce that pretty strictly in some places. There are places near here, like I-68 out through Cumberland, that have posted limits of 70 mph (or was it 75? Been a couple of years since I drove it), so you don't have to go as far as Montana to exceed 65 legally on the public roads. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 24 17:27:42 2004 Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 14:27:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Leon Begeman Subject: Re: Iron Butt Record To: DC Cycles > At 04:29 PM 6/24/2004, Mike Bartman wrote: > >If he didn't stop at all, he'd have to average > 56.32 mph for the entire > >trip. given that he said he hit traffic snarls, > border crossing suspicion, > >an accident that required field repairs, napped, > stopped for gas, and > >stopped for a tire swap, his actual average speed > would have to be higher > >than that. How much higher depends on how long all > his stops took, but it > >doesn't take a very long period at 0 mph to bring > the average speed down > >considerably...and to make it up you need to be > going well above average > >for a while. These guys don't stop much. (The news report mentioned that he slept for a couple hours in Kansas City. That was probably his longest stop.) I can usually keep my rolling average while riding at 7-9 mph slower than my overall average. For me, the highest speed attained is dependant on whether I have cruise control or how closely I monitor my speed. On competitive long distance rides, I can average about 65 mph overall and keep the highest speed attained at 80 or so. The only thing that lowers it from there is the amount of time I take sleeping. During the Iron Butt Rally, I averaged about 4 hours of sleep per night. I averaged 1000 miles per day for 11 days but made a number of required stops as a part of the rally. Practice. By setting long daily distances as a goal and then setting out to meet that goal, it is possible to ride some very long distances without significant danger. I've heard there are people that can run 26 miles in a day. Now that's truly crazy. I'd fall over dead at less than 5 miles. They must be cheating somehow. ;-) Leon Begeman Ninja 250 rider. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 24 19:10:06 2004 From: "Dave Yates" To: "DC Cycles" Subject: Re: Iron Butt Record Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 19:08:54 -0400 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79ce1afe16ad1baf051b2fc7b44ea2fc28350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c > These guys don't stop much. [Dave] And if they avoid the east coast, they won't have to. My (emap registered) moving averages get absolutely killed any time New Jersey, and NY are involved, even in the slightest bit on any moto/cage trip. Tolls, tolls, tolls, and backups, backups, backups. God help you if it rains. Last time I was out west, a couple years back, I was going 80 - 85 in the rain. People were shaking their fists at the wife & I as they flew past. Once in and around Seattle, things slowed down a bit - 75 - 80 in the rain. Used to it? I don't know. Seems around here any time there's rain, I can count on another 15 -30 minutes of commute time for the scant 10 miles home. This guy's time is most impressive. Who cares if he was speeding.... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 24 19:37:16 2004 Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 19:40:19 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Bruce Brownlee Subject: Re: IBR Record Mike, As others have said, its not hard at all. I rode back from Niceville FL over 4 Jul weekend a couple years ago in something like 15 hours (990 miles). That was a 66mph average (put away the calculator). I had the first hour or two at 55, never broke 80 the entire trip. Most of the time around 75, which granted, is speeding, but I was definitely slower than the flow of traffic (especially on I-81 from Bristol on up!) I made gas stops every 2 hours, only got off the bike every other stop. While fueling strattling the bike, drank some gatorade and ate part of a powerbar and took one aspirin. Typically less than 5 minutes off the interstate (IBA rule, always use pay at the pump stations!). Ate sunflower seeds and some fruit snacks enroute. If Leon hasnt said it, among the LD riding community, most just follow the 'steady pace' rule. Nothing will lower your average speed faster than a 45 minute wait for the local LEO to give you a performance award. And they generally frown on you taking a nap while they work. :-) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 24 22:54:09 2004 Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 22:53:49 -0400 From: Dale Horstman To: Dave Yates CC: DC Cycles Subject: Re: chain lube redux Dave Yates wrote: > [Dave] Yeah, and let's not forget their sketch Head design > engine designation. panheads, knuckleheads, blockheads... > Did they make a pinhead model ? I think the liquid-cooled V-rod is called a showerhead now... :) Horkster -- Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark) Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX '98 Concours - BugSlayer Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth '99 Concours - Grape Nehi CM #001 NRA IBA COG '82 GS850G The Mason Dixon 20-20 Endurance Rally: The Hole Dam Rally Come join us in 2005: http://www.md2020.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 24 23:04:41 2004 From: "Thomas Jordan" To: "'DC Cycles'" Subject: RE: Emergency Contact Info - Highly Suggested. Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 23:04:36 -0400 I work with the SCCA (Sports Car Club of America) at Summit Point and other racetracks as an emergency services volunteer. This year, our region implemented the use of the Medical Carrier Info System, and next year, it is slated to be a requirement of all workers and racers to have to MCIS pouch on helmets or official credentials nationwide. It's an excellent system, and can potentially save your life by having ALL necessary information at hand, even if you can't communicate with EMS personnel. I give this two thumbs up, because my life depends on it. -----Original Message----- From: Aaron Maurer [mailto:amaurer@XXXXXX] Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 10:44 AM To: DC Cycles Subject: Emergency Contact Info A few years ago a rider on a PPTC group ride (pedal-bikes) crashed, landed head first on her helmet, and was knocked unconscious. No one on the ride knew who she was (other than first-name), or how to get in contact with her family/friends to let them know. Luckily, she had a cell-phone in her bag, and by using the "recent calls" feature got in touch with her sister, who got in touch with the rider's husband. Ever since that time, I've been mindful to have emergency contact info (usually a business card with a number scrawled on the back) somewhere on me when biking. I found a better solution -- http://www.cyclegadgets.com has an small packet that attaches unobtrusively to your helmet which can contain all the pertinent information. http://www.cyclegadgets.com/Products/product.asp?Item=MICS I've had one on my helmet for the better part of 6 months now with no problems -- I've forgotten it's there. The best part is, it's free. I recommend you pick one up. No reason not to. (No relation with the company other than as a happy customer.) Aaron From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jun 24 23:09:27 2004 Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 23:09:12 -0400 From: Dale Horstman To: Mike Bartman CC: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Iron Butt Record Mike Bartman wrote: > At 04:38 PM 6/24/04 -0400, Troutman wrote: > >>At 04:29 PM 6/24/2004, Mike Bartman wrote: > > >>Using my eMap GPS on a trip 2 weeks ago to North Carolina, we averaged 56 >>MPH while moving and 54 MPH including our gas stops and food. This was >>across a 7.5 hour trip. I'd say the speedo was sitting on 65 to 70 for >>most of the trip, with a few triple digit spikes. > > > It doesn't take long at 100 mph to make up for some stops... ;-) You'd be surprised at how that doesn't work. Gas mileage goes way downhill for most bikes once you start getting upwards of 85, 90 mph. You eventually reach a point where you lose more time with the extra gas stops than you make up while moving. Most of these serious riders are packing the IBA-allowed limit of 11.5 gallons of gas onboard, and really try to limit the stops as much as possible. Any time spent not moving just crushes your overall average. So they don't stop when they absolutely don't have to. You can cover a surprising amount of ground moving at or just over the flow of traffic speeds. I even heard Paul Harvey mention Gary's ride on AM radio this morning. Horkster -- Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark) Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX '98 Concours - BugSlayer Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth '99 Concours - Grape Nehi CM #001 NRA IBA COG '82 GS850G The Mason Dixon 20-20 Endurance Rally: The Hole Dam Rally Come join us in 2005: http://www.md2020.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 25 01:28:18 2004 Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 22:28:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: 2004 Accident Statistics (Athens Greece) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Pedestrian lives at risk in Attica Nearly one in three people killed in road accidents in Attica this year was a pedestrian, according to traffic police statistics released yesterday. From January 1 to the end of May, 143 people died in such accidents, 19 were seriously injured and a further 30 were lightly hurt, traffic police said. Out of the death total, 44 people (30.77 percent) were pedestrians, 43 (30.07 percent) were motorcyclists, 34 (23.78 percent) were car drivers, 17 (11.89 percent) were passengers in cars and other four wheeled vehicles, four were driving other four wheeled vehicles and one was a passenger on a motorbike. Most of the dead fell within the 20-40 age group, followed by those aged over 60. Four of the pedestrians had been drunk and one had taken drugs. Out of the motorists, 10 had been drunk and three had been high on drugs. Only three of the motorcyclists had indisputably been wearing crash helmets, and 16 had not. Police said it was impossible to say whether the others had been wearing a helmet or just carrying it on their arm. ==================== In case you're not following my journal or missed it, Greece apparently has recently enacted a helmet law. "You must wear a helmet while driving" doesn't actually say "on the head" :-) Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 25 01:45:15 2004 Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 22:45:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Iron Butt Record To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Dale Horstman wrote: > Mike Bartman wrote: > > It doesn't take long at 100 mph to make up for some stops... ;-) > > You'd be surprised at how that doesn't work. Gas mileage > goes way downhill for most bikes once you start getting > upwards of 85, 90 mph. You eventually reach a point where > you lose more time with the extra gas stops than you make > up while moving. Most of these serious riders are > packing the IBA-allowed limit of 11.5 gallons of gas onboard, > and really try to limit the stops as much as possible. Any > time spent not moving just crushes your overall average. So > they don't stop when they absolutely don't have to. > I might have to consider a little drain tube running down my leg to "eliminate" some stops ;-) > Horkster > Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 25 01:50:39 2004 Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 22:50:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: chain lube redux To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > Thanks for the "chart". I'll save it for future reference. If I was > going to get another bike, a BMW would be near the top of the list of options. > They have some that are big enough to fit me, and they are > well-engineered from all reports. I'd probably be interested in their "on-road/off > road" model. Don't expect it to happen any time soon though...one bike is > enough to fill what time I have available for riding at the moment, and I don't > have anywhere handy to ride off road around here. A quick search found this page which doesn't have BMW listed but the others are there. http://www.flandersco.com/ModelReferenceGuide.html > > > -- Mike B. Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 25 02:25:25 2004 Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 01:25:28 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Sean Jordan Subject: Re: Iron Butt Record Carl wrote: >I might have to consider a little drain tube running down my leg to >"eliminate" some stops ;-) Been done. What was that guy's name, Horkster? Morris K . .? - Sean Jordan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 25 07:19:43 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 07:19:30 EDT Subject: Re: Bartender on a bike To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/24/2004 12:13:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, omni@XXXXXX writes: > Solution is the same for any road hazard though: don't outdrive your > vision or your stopping distance. I.e. be prepared and capable of stopping > in the area you can see ahead of you at all times. Think about things like lane position and routes also. I have lots of woods alongside of the road on my commute, during deer (rutting) season I generally ride large major highway (210) rather then the more pleasant narrow back roads through deep woods where deer are likely and I would have little time to react. And I usually ride in the left lane as far away from the woods as possible, that way I am less likely to startle or panic any deer that are there. Riding in the left also allows more time for me to see the critter when it leaves the cover of the trees. BTW at 2:30am. I would be at least as worried about the drunks as the deer. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC 1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European 1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles 1976, Honda CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 25 07:38:43 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 07:38:23 EDT Subject: Re: Deer Avoidance To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/24/2004 2:42:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time, julian@XXXXXX writes: > If I slow down to a next to nothing 5-10 mph because I see one deer and > then another charges me They do not charge you, at least in the aggressive sense of the word (deer at any rate, there are critters that will) they panic their motions are completely unpredictable even to the deer. This is a very successful predator avoidance technique because there is no way to "telegraph" what you are going to do if you yourself do not know what you are going to do. Unfortunately for us it does not work when avoiding something that is _not_ really after you. > My concern is the streaking missile from the dark on an interception > trajectory. Would you prefer that they intercept you at 40 or 90? As stated you cannot predict what they are going to do or what angle they will be coming from. And do not forget that stopping distance increases _dramatically_ with speed. We can all stop if we have enough warning no matter what our speed is, the problem is we often have little or no warning. I go with slow down. Just remember that has its own dangers (see under drunks etc.) John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC 1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European 1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles 1976, Honda CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 25 08:02:48 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 08:02:39 EDT Subject: Re: Iron Butt Record To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/25/2004 1:45:45 AM Eastern Daylight Time, dm_gsxr@XXXXXX writes: > I might have to consider a little drain tube running down my leg to > "eliminate" some stops ;-) It would also be useful for "commenting" on the driving habits of tailgaters.... John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 25 08:56:35 2004 Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 08:55:34 -0400 (EDT) From: dan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Cell Phone Coverage (Analog/GSM) My Sprint reception at the house has degraded significantly. Bascially I can't make a call without being dropped and I don't have a land line. Could be some new buildings being built, etc. So I'm thinking about moving to another provider. A couple of years ago when doing some research, AMPS 800 was a biggie if you wanted coverage in the sticks. I like riding deep into WV, and am wondering about the coverage there. Has GSM coverage improved in the rural areas? I'm very hesitant to get a phone that is digital only. Any feedback is appreciated. Dan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 25 09:24:07 2004 From: Daniel To: dan Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Cell Phone Coverage (Analog/GSM) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 09:22:59 -0400 I suggest not switching phones until you get the new home.. how do you know the new one will work there? why switch until you know that. - Danny From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 25 09:30:43 2004 Reply-To: "S. Russell" From: "S. Russell" To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: FS: 91 Honda CB750 Nighthawk Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 09:30:24 -0400 Okay, I noticed that someone here was looking for a Nighthawk so I thought I would put this on the line. The feel of this bike is a lot different than my 84 Nighthawk, two different beasts. For Sale: 1991 Honda CB750 Nighthawk, Red with plexiglass shield (@ 18"). 5700 miles (only 1500 put on since 1997, go figure), clean title, no dents/dings/or scrapes. Had been garaged for the last couple of years, brought out every month and run around for a while. Runs great, had it checked out with dealer and they say will only need tires. $2000 or best offer. Scott Russell From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 25 09:33:59 2004 Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 09:33:15 -0400 (EDT) From: dan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Cell Phone Coverage (Analog/GSM) On Fri, 25 Jun 2004, Daniel wrote: > I suggest not switching phones until you get the new home.. how do > you know the new one will work there? why switch until you know that. > > - Danny > Sorry if it wasn't clear, but the only moving I'm doing is cell phone providers.... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 25 09:41:38 2004 From: purdyjeremy@XXXXXX To: DC-CYCLES@XXXXXX Cc: julian@XXXXXX, omni@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Bartender on a bike Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 13:41:23 +0000 X-Authenticated-Sender: cHVyZHlqZXJlbXlAYXR0Lm5ldA== Bartman responded: >At 11:12 AM 6/24/04 -0400, Julian Halton wrote: > >>talk about deer, but is it likely deer behavior to charge a motorcycle? > >>Do they typically run towards an engine and light? > >No, they are either going to run away, or freeze, probably staring at the >light trying to figure out what to do about it. Of course, like with any >other animal (including people), they can get confused, panic and do all >sorts of stupid things, so never say never. That is the typical behavior to expect. The only exception occurs during the rut, which lasts for a week or two after the first major cold snap of late fall / winter. During that period the male deer become completely fixated on mating. When they pick up the scent of a female, they don't notice anything else around them and have been known to charge right into the side of moving vehicles while attempting to cross a road to get to the female. -- Jeremy Purdy '00 Yamaha V-Star From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 25 10:15:52 2004 Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 10:18:26 -0400 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: chain lube redux At 10:50 PM 6/24/04 -0700, Carl Schelin wrote: >A quick search found this page which doesn't have BMW listed but the >others are there. > >http://www.flandersco.com/ModelReferenceGuide.html Not bad, thanks! It's missing a few though, like the Honda Sabers, and there's at least one typo ("Softail Stouderd" should be "Softail Standard"). Back from Greece yet? -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 25 10:31:05 2004 Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 10:26:29 -0400 To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Deer Avoidance At 07:38 AM 6/25/04 EDT, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: >> My concern is the streaking missile from the dark on an interception >> trajectory. > >Would you prefer that they intercept you at 40 or 90? One of the local HOGs at the last after-meeting dinner was relating an encounter he had with a deer. He was doing about 80 when he hit it. He, and the bike, went *through* the deer. He was airborn for about 400', the bike was totaled, and they found one of his gloves *in* the deer. He doesn't actually remember the impact or immediate aftermath, which is probably just as well. The details were worked out after the fact from the evidence. BTW, this is one of the guys who wears a half-helmet (even in winter), and removes it when legal to do so. Good thing he's well "padded" himself... ;-) -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 25 10:31:35 2004 Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 10:35:17 -0400 To: dan , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Cell Phone Coverage (Analog/GSM) At 08:55 AM 6/25/04 -0400, dan wrote: >moving to another provider. A couple of years ago when doing some >research, AMPS 800 was a biggie if you wanted coverage in the sticks. I >like riding deep into WV, and am wondering about the coverage there. I switched providers a few months ago. The one with the best coverage was Verizon. AT&T was in second place. The rest were much more limited, usually due to being GSM-only. If I never left city/suburbs, that would be fine, but given where I like riding, I wanted as wide a net as possible. West Virginia is a problem in general. Not enough population density in many areas to warrant a lot of cell towers, and too many mountains to let the ones they have reach everywhere. Every provider I checked had big holes listed for WV where there was no coverage available. Don't know how accurate those maps are though. Verizon's had at least some coverage here and there, which was better than most. >Has GSM coverage improved in the rural areas? Depends where you are. My GF and I talked on her GSM phone from the Beltway all the way to Connecticut just north of New York (it was an emergency trip in the middle of the night and I wanted to keep her awake). There were two momentary dropouts along the way where she lost signal, redialed and had it back. The I-95 corridor has very good GSM coverage compared to most non-city areas though, so that experience probably won't apply elsewhere. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 25 10:53:54 2004 Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 10:53:47 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Cell Phone Coverage (Analog/GSM) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Dan: >My Sprint reception at the house has degraded >significantly. Bascially I can't make a call without being >dropped and I don't have a land line. >Could be some new buildings being built, etc. So I'm >thinking about moving to another provider. ... Has >GSM coverage improved in the rural areas? [Dave] Not just no, HELL no. If you check out the GSM coverage maps, you'll note that they are like digital coverage maps were a few years back... a patchwork of holes where no reception exists. And, it's largely piggybacked where regular digital exists, so there's no magic bullet here... I got a Siemens S46 which is supposed to be digital AND GSM, but the practical effect is mimimum. For example, I can make through the "black hole" of cell coverage from Accokeek through Fort Washington without losing signal now, and even a little south of Accokeek, but GSM coverage (AT&T Wireless) isn't that impressive. I'd suggest checking the fine print really carefully and if you can get either a phone swap or opt out, go for a new deal, but don't sign on for more than a year. Take a ride on day one to where ever you might stop, and check the signal. If it's crap, take it back. Don't get me wrong, I am actually satisfied with my AT&T wireless service, but, I'm just pointing out that there's still coverage holes around here and it will be that way for the forseeable future. Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 25 11:16:47 2004 Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 11:20:32 -0400 To: Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Cell Phone Coverage (Analog/GSM) At 10:53 AM 6/25/04 -0400, Dave Yates wrote: >here... I got a Siemens S46 which is supposed to be digital >AND GSM, but the practical effect is mimimum. GSM *is* digital. It's not CDMA digital (the kind used by Verizon, Cingular and some others) or PCS digital (like Sprint), but it is digital. BTW, GSM here and GSM everywhere else in the world aren't the same. We use a non-standard frequency in the USA. You can get "tri-mode" phones that will work here and in Europe, Japan, etc., but the normal GSM phones sold here are US-only. Figures, huh? >but GSM coverage (AT&T Wireless) isn't that impressive. AT&T isn't GSM-only unless you opted for one of their GSM-only phones. They do have a couple of phones that are dual-mode (CDMA and GSM), and those will get you much wider availability, either directly or through roaming. Verizon's coverage was a bit better (even the AT&T saleslady admitted that), so I went with them. T-Mobile is the only provider I know of that is GSM-only. They had great deals and phones, but the fact that they were likely to be useless most of the places I ride, where I'd be likely to need a cell phone to call for help, ruled them out. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 25 11:20:03 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 11:19:48 EDT Subject: Re: Shock Adjustment Question To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/24/2004 12:18:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, markkitchell@XXXXXX writes: > I got this Fox with the hopes that adjustment of the > preload would be easy. Unfortunatley, its not easy at > all so I never do it. Except this time? I would say that your spring is "settling in" and needs to be readjusted. Do not get carried away, just a little should do. (It is always a pain when going from just a rider to rider and passenger. And then there is luggage if you travel...) I want to upgrade the rear suspension on my Honda ST, but the few shocks I have found out there would be a pain to adjust, so for now I am stock. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC 1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European 1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles 1976, Honda CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 25 11:32:32 2004 Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 11:31:54 -0400 To: "DC Cycles" From: Troutman Subject: Re: Cell Phone Coverage (Analog/GSM) At 08:55 AM 6/25/2004, you wrote: >Has GSM coverage improved in the rural areas? No. I have a single band VoiceStream GSM phone and my reception sucks outside of city centers. Of all the local carriers, Verizon has been the best; although future AT&T with their new owner may be better, but not current AT&T. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles. One who does not know the enemy but knows himself will sometimes win, sometimes lose. One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself will be in danger in every battle. - Sun Tzu From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 25 11:35:50 2004 Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 08:35:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: chain lube redux To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 10:50 PM 6/24/04 -0700, Carl Schelin wrote: > > >A quick search found this page which doesn't have BMW listed but the > >others are there. > > > >http://www.flandersco.com/ModelReferenceGuide.html > > Not bad, thanks! It's missing a few though, like the Honda Sabers, and > there's at least one typo ("Softail Stouderd" should be "Softail > Standard"). Yea, if I'd have typed it, I would have ensured only the Yamaha's were misspelled ;-) > > Back from Greece yet? Nope. Still hanging out. It's 6:28pm here and I'm just finishing up some stuff at the office. Man, greek women are fine looking and it's great to work in an office with several. It almost makes me want to be single again. Too bad just about everyone smokes here, even in the offices. *cough* It does supress the appitite though. I don't recall seeing it at home but the most eye-catching attire is the toga like blouse. Basically a tube top combined with a tank top. Just that the tank top strap is on one side. I'm going to be getting some example pictures ;-) and posting them to my site as well as a short movie of a Greek woman walking (taken from behind). Poetry in motion. ObjCycles: Hmm, well we're going to an island tomorrow for sun and fun and to a Hash on Sunday for more fun (do a google search on hash +running for an explanation; there are Hash groups in NoVa apparently as well as Denver which Rita found). ObjObj, oh yea, we're going to rent scooters to tool around on the island. No cars allowed. Should be lots of fun :-) > > > -- Mike B. Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 25 11:38:38 2004 Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 11:38:36 -0400 To: "DC Cycles" From: Troutman Subject: Key saga over So - I never did find my VFR keys. I purchased a large Torx set and ratcheted off the ignition. Hard to do with the tree on, but possible. To get the ignition apart required a T10 with a hole punched in the center. Fortunately my bro-in-law has a body shop and had the tool. $20 later I have two new keys at Manassas Honda this morning. Took a while because of work travel this week. Only gets worse with a 3 day trip next week and 5 day the next week. Nothing like slabbing it to Massachusetts twice in two weeks. BTW - Manassas Honda has a lot more accessories than they used to. I picked up a can of Plexus this morning. They even had Tailblazers in stock at a reasonable price. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles. One who does not know the enemy but knows himself will sometimes win, sometimes lose. One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself will be in danger in every battle. - Sun Tzu From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 25 11:43:26 2004 From: "Rob Sharp" To: dan , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Cell Phone Coverage (Analog/GSM) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 11:46:06 -0400 It comes down to this IMO. You want to choice a carrier based on freq usage/technology. 800-900mhz is the best because because it doesn't bounce of walls/bricks like 1800-1900 mhz does and has the best coverage. I have a friend with a GSM phone (1900) and it's HORRIBLE. He drops every call he makes basically and his provider says no one else is having problems in his area. He has a paper weight for two years. I have a Verizon cell phone and that thing WORKS everywhere (in the US). I have used it in upstate NY, the Adirondack mountains (spotty coverage), all over PA, MD, VA, TN, CA, FL, WS and it almost NEVER drops a call unless I was moving in a car and switched cells. So IMO opinion research the freq ranges used by your provider and steer clear of the 1800-1900 mhz range providers cause it sucks. The easiest way to tell, if the phone has a pull up antenna it uses the lower ranges, if it's got a nub or no antenna at all it's the higher freq range. Rob On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 08:55:34 -0400 (EDT), dan wrote > My Sprint reception at the house has degraded significantly. > Bascially I can't make a call without being dropped and I don't > have a land line. Could be some new buildings being built, etc. So > I'm thinking about moving to another provider. A couple of years > ago when doing some research, AMPS 800 was a biggie if you wanted > coverage in the sticks. I like riding deep into WV, and am > wondering about the coverage there. Has GSM coverage improved in the > rural areas? I'm very hesitant to get a phone that is digital only. > Any feedback is appreciated. > > Dan -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 25 13:03:37 2004 Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 13:03:40 -0400 From: Skip Smith CC: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Deer Avoidance Aaron Maurer wrote: > > I can't disagree more with your logic. [snip] > 2) I don't think deer are going to "charge" you.[snip] I was charged by a deer. I was letting my wife pilot, we were on the BRP. It was a *gorgeous* 10-12 point buck. It crossed the space separating us in an AMAZINGLY short ammount of time, as I patted her shoulder yelling, "GO! GO! GO! GO! GO!" She had the bike in cruising mode, high gear, low revs. she neglected to dowshift, and just ham-fisted the throttle. when the buck was about 5 feet away, head lowered, getting ready to flick me off the back she downshifted, wound it up to about 6 grand and dumped the clutch, nearly sliding me off the tail. so yeah, they *will* charge you. --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 25 13:15:45 2004 Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 13:15:40 -0400 From: Aaron Maurer To: Skip Smith Subject: Re: Deer Avoidance Cc: DC Cycles Wow -- the exception that proves the rule? (Anyway, I still think the proper course of action is to slow down in deer country, at least until they mount up and come at you.) On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 13:03:40 -0400, Skip Smith wrote: > > > > Aaron Maurer wrote: > > > > I can't disagree more with your logic. > [snip] > > 2) I don't think deer are going to "charge" you.[snip] > > I was charged by a deer. I was letting my wife pilot, we were on the > BRP. It was a *gorgeous* 10-12 point buck. It crossed the space > separating us in an AMAZINGLY short ammount of time, as I patted her > shoulder yelling, "GO! GO! GO! GO! GO!" She had the bike in cruising > mode, high gear, low revs. she neglected to dowshift, and just > ham-fisted the throttle. when the buck was about 5 feet away, head > lowered, getting ready to flick me off the back she downshifted, wound > it up to about 6 grand and dumped the clutch, nearly sliding me off the > tail. > > so yeah, they *will* charge you. > > > --skip > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 25 13:30:26 2004 Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 12:30:29 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Sean Jordan Subject: Re: Cell Phone Coverage (Analog/GSM) Let's take this off-list guys . . . thanks. - Sean Jordan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 25 14:10:13 2004 Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 14:08:24 -0400 To: "DC Cycles" From: Troutman Subject: RE: Key saga over At 01:58 PM 6/25/2004, Verde, Robert wrote: >That sounds like a security bolt, we used to use them on >telecommunications boxes, required a special set of bits (that you had to >be approved to buy) to open the cases. It is marked with a T10 size and no special notation about the hollow center. I don't know what to call them besides Torx hollow. >Where did you get your torx bit set? As a new Jeep owner, I've discovered >that Jeeps are all put together with torx-head bolts, even the bumpers are >held on by them. I also needed the set to remove my F150 bench seat. I'm leaving the jump seat and taking out the 2/3 seat for inside storage and doggie transportation. All seatbelts seem to be held by huge torx bolts. My set was $29 at Sears Hardware for a 3/8" socket set. My bro-in-law subsequently told me that any auto parts store would have sold the same crappy brand for $15. He is allowed to talk to me like this since he has $10k in snap on tools in his garage. You can only get the big T25+ torx in socket, not in screwdriver style handle form. He also has a set of reverse torx sockets. I've never seen a torx headed bolt, nor do I want to. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles. One who does not know the enemy but knows himself will sometimes win, sometimes lose. One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself will be in danger in every battle. - Sun Tzu From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 25 15:14:01 2004 Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 15:10:07 -0400 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: chain lube redux At 08:35 AM 6/25/04 -0700, Carl Schelin wrote: >*cough* It does supress the appitite though. I don't recall seeing it at >home but the most eye-catching attire is the toga like blouse. Basically a >tube top combined with a tank top. Just that the tank top strap is on one >side. I'm going to be getting some example pictures ;-) and posting them >to my site as well as a short movie of a Greek woman walking (taken from >behind). Poetry in motion. I'll be looking forward to it. :-) >ObjCycles: Hmm, well we're going to an island tomorrow for sun and fun and >to a Hash on Sunday for more fun (do a google search on hash +running for >an explanation; there are Hash groups in NoVa apparently as well as Denver >which Rita found). There's one somewhere around here called the Hash House Harriers...I know one of the members. He refers to it as "A drinking club with a running problem." Take care on the scooters...no stoppies! :-) -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 25 15:15:09 2004 Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 15:19:03 -0400 To: Troutman , "DC Cycles" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Key saga over At 11:38 AM 6/25/04 -0400, Troutman wrote: >So - I never did find my VFR keys. I purchased a large Torx set and >ratcheted off the ignition. Hard to do with the tree on, but possible. To >get the ignition apart required a T10 with a hole punched in the >center. Those are "tamper proof" types. I needed to fix an iron that had those, and the places I tried to buy them wouldn't sell them to me. Said they were there for "security purposes", and selling them to someone not in the business was a no-no. So I used the Dremmel to carve the post out of the middle of the screws and used a normal Torx...so much for "security" and "tamper proof". BTW, I found a set of hex bits at Micro Warehouse over in Fairfax a couple of weeks ago that included both Torx and Hex "tamper proof" bits. I think it was $19 on sale and has bits for fasteners I've never even seen before. Made by "easypower" amd claims to be "contractor quality". I'll know about that once I've used them a while. Nice plastic box to hold them anyway. >$20 later I have two new keys at Manassas Honda this morning. So, you should be on track to find your original keys this weekend, right? ;-) -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 25 15:28:12 2004 Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 15:32:04 -0400 To: Troutman , "DC Cycles" From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: Key saga over At 02:08 PM 6/25/04 -0400, Troutman wrote: >At 01:58 PM 6/25/2004, Verde, Robert wrote: >It is marked with a T10 size and no special notation about the hollow >center. I don't know what to call them besides Torx hollow. "Torx Tamper Proof" is one description I found on the web. "Tamper Resistant" is probably a better name though...anyone with a Dremmel, a small metal bit and a regular Torx bit of the right size can get through them pretty easily. >>Where did you get your torx bit set? As a new Jeep owner, I've discovered >>that Jeeps are all put together with torx-head bolts, even the bumpers are >>held on by them. Sears has Torx sets, the larger sizes anyway, for use with a 3/8" ratchet. For the little ones, check out Micro Warehouse for that "easypower" set I mentioned in the other post. Harley uses Hex and Torx heads all over the place. >He also has a set of reverse torx sockets. I've never seen a torx headed >bolt, nor do I want to. That easypower set has things in it like "clutch", "spline", "spanner", "octodrive", and "tripley" bits in it. I think I've seen spanner screws once before (on a hard drive...in a place you only want to undo them in a clean room or if the drive is dead and you are just curious...). I've never seen anything that uses the others...so far. This set even has a y-shaped bit for driving thumb screws! -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 25 18:32:47 2004 From: Daniel To: Mike Bartman Cc: Troutman , "DC Cycles" Subject: Re: Key saga over Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 18:31:22 -0400 >>$20 later I have two new keys at Manassas Honda this morning. > >So, you should be on track to find your original keys this weekend, right? >;-) LOL .. also known as "safety bits" From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jun 25 20:52:37 2004 Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 20:52:26 -0400 From: Dale Horstman To: Sean Jordan CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Iron Butt Record Sean Jordan wrote: > Carl wrote: > >> I might have to consider a little drain tube running down my leg to >> "eliminate" some stops ;-) > > > Been done. What was that guy's name, Horkster? Morris K . .? Morris has a funnel. Paul Pelland wears a tube. Paul likes to walk up to people in the parking lot, stand there for a moment, and ask "Guess what I'm doing right now? :) Horkster -- Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark) Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX '98 Concours - BugSlayer Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth '99 Concours - Grape Nehi CM #001 NRA IBA COG '82 GS850G The Mason Dixon 20-20 Endurance Rally: The Hole Dam Rally Come join us in 2005: http://www.md2020.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jun 26 15:39:21 2004 From: "W.S." To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: Iron Butt Record Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 15:39:02 -0400 From: Carl Schelin --- Dale Horstman wrote: > Mike Bartman wrote: > > It doesn't take long at 100 mph to make up for some stops... ;-) > > You'd be surprised at how that doesn't work. > . . . snip > So they don't stop when > they absolutely don't have to. > I might have to consider a little drain tube running down my leg to "eliminate" some stops ;-) > Horkster > Carl ************* These are available. Wring out the 'Net with a good twisting Google. Or try medical supplies. Let me know if you really need a reference - I stuffed away a source for the male version somewhere when I was bicycle race refereeing. Never did use one though: The needs disappeared when I stopped drinking 3-4 early a.m. coffees prior to events (bloated by the time made last fuelup. Liquid management of all kinds was a challenging part of those efforts, some conducted in pretty remote circumstances. Fun, though.) Bill S. / DC '99 VN750 > I remember. You'd often shake worse than vibrations. Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Jun 27 11:54:08 2004 From: Daniel To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Deer Avoidance Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 11:55:43 -0400 Two weeks or so ago a friend was riding another friends zx9 in virginia.. reston i believe.. and he hit a deer, split it in half, and didn't go down.. he had a leg hit, and broke the headlight, upper, and left side fairing and i think a rear footpeg.. but i must concur.. slower is better.. i'd rather have a deer hit me at it's full speed, than be going fast, hit the deer, then slide into a tree at a high speed.. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Jun 27 14:03:34 2004 From: Daniel To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: race plastics Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 14:05:11 -0400 My friend who has the 97 zx9 deer hunter... wants to get race plastics.. he needs and upper and lower.. where si the best place (cheapest) to get them? - danny tia From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 28 01:03:58 2004 Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 22:03:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: chain lube redux To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 08:35 AM 6/25/04 -0700, Carl Schelin wrote: > > >*cough* It does supress the appitite though. I don't recall seeing it > at > >home but the most eye-catching attire is the toga like blouse. > Basically a > >tube top combined with a tank top. Just that the tank top strap is on > one > >side. I'm going to be getting some example pictures ;-) and posting > them > >to my site as well as a short movie of a Greek woman walking (taken > from > >behind). Poetry in motion. > > I'll be looking forward to it. :-) I got a nice picture of the blouse but am still hunting a good walking movie. I'll just have to keep trying ;-) > > >ObjCycles: Hmm, well we're going to an island tomorrow for sun and fun > and > >to a Hash on Sunday for more fun (do a google search on hash +running > for > >an explanation; there are Hash groups in NoVa apparently as well as > Denver > >which Rita found). > > There's one somewhere around here called the Hash House Harriers...I > know > one of the members. He refers to it as "A drinking club with a running > problem." Actually I think the whole thing is called "Hash House Harriers". I'm in the "Athens Hash" and Rita found a "Denver Hash". > > Take care on the scooters...no stoppies! :-) Ahh, we considered it but I like walking so we bailed on the scooters. Nice sunburn and swimming in the Saronic Gulf's blue waters. We could have swam in the Agean on Sunday at the Hash but the beach we were at only had a foot or so of water and about a half-foot of scum (rotting seaweed) that went out for some distance. Three of the bikes I've seen here are: Honda TransAlp (XLV600), Yamaha TDM (TDM850) and Honda Africa Twin (XRV750). > > -- Mike B. Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 28 01:11:12 2004 Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 22:11:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Iron Butt Record To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Dale Horstman wrote: > Sean Jordan wrote: > > Carl wrote: > > > >> I might have to consider a little drain tube running down my leg to > >> "eliminate" some stops ;-) > > > > > > Been done. What was that guy's name, Horkster? Morris K . .? > > Morris has a funnel. Paul Pelland wears a tube. Paul likes > to walk up to people in the parking lot, stand there for a > moment, and ask "Guess what I'm doing right now? :) Looks down: "Peeing in/on your boot?" > > Horkster Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 28 01:15:40 2004 Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 22:15:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Iron Butt Record To: DC-Cycles --- "W.S." wrote: > From: Carl Schelin > > --- Dale Horstman wrote: > > Mike Bartman wrote: > > > It doesn't take long at 100 mph to make up for some stops... ;-) > > > > You'd be surprised at how that doesn't work. > > . . . snip > > So they don't stop when > > they absolutely don't have to. > > > > I might have to consider a little drain tube running down my leg to > "eliminate" some stops ;-) > > > Horkster > > > > Carl > > ************* > > These are available. Wring out the 'Net with a good twisting > Google. > Or try medical supplies. Let me know if you really need a reference - I > stuffed away a source for the male version somewhere when I was bicycle > race refereeing. Never did use one though: The needs disappeared when > I > stopped drinking 3-4 early a.m. coffees prior to events (bloated by the > time > made last fuelup. Liquid management of all kinds was a challenging part > of > those efforts, some conducted in pretty remote circumstances. Fun, > though.) I've seen them many years ago (bicycling maybe) so I'm sure I could find them if necessary. I have the caffeine problems as well but, while I've tried the Iron Butt, I don't think I'm in such a hurry as to need one :-) Maybe if I IB on the sportbike. Thanks though. > > > Bill S. / DC Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 28 09:19:00 2004 Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 06:18:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Tim of Crossroads in the Wash Post To: DC Cycles In case you missed it, Tim Tankersley of Crossroads Cycles was given a camera by the WP for its "Photo Diary" spread in the Sunday Magazine. FYI, the Kawasaki with the cat on it belongs to my friend Dave. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/photo/style/G2770-2004Jun24.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 28 09:31:58 2004 Subject: Late night worries and some observations about Delaware Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 09:31:51 -0400 From: "Julian Halton" To: , Well, the great thing about my route is that there are 0 vehicles until I cross the Key Bridge. Once I get into sweet Virginia, I takes less than a minute.as I turn right onto Lee highway *some joker of the moment* decides they want to race, once I get on the 66 it happens again. Spent a wonderful weekend at the beach.in Delaware noticed more than 70% of riders were helmetless. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 28 10:01:12 2004 From: "Rob Sharp" To: "Julian Halton" , , Subject: Re: Late night worries and some observations about Delaware Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 10:03:54 -0400 I had some guy in a Vette try to race me. We were stopped at a light (two lanes) and after the light the road merged into one lane. He starts it by revving his engine and what not. I just might have revved mine a bit too :-D. Anyhow the light goes green and he takes off. I sit there for a second and then take off. I am thinking no way I am gonna have this guy run me off the road and kill me. Glad I didn't cause he smokes em and pulls ahead of me. Mean while I am taking off at an extra slow pace to avoid the situation. Then like 2-300 yards *LATER* slams on the brakes and pulls into his development. Freakin people crack me up. I don't even know if my VFR could beat a corvette, they are pretty fast aren't they. Maybe off the line but they got to have the top end covered pretty well. Rob On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 09:31:51 -0400, Julian Halton wrote > Well, the great thing about my route is that there are 0 vehicles until > I cross the Key Bridge. Once I get into sweet Virginia, I takes less > than a minute.as I turn right onto Lee highway *some joker of the > moment* decides they want to race, once I get on the 66 it happens > again. > > Spent a wonderful weekend at the beach.in Delaware noticed more than > 70% of riders were helmetless. -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 28 10:05:14 2004 Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 07:05:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: Late night worries and some observations about Delaware To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX If you really got on it you could easily smoke a Corvette. By the time he caught up to you the top end would mean nothing. Glenn --- Rob Sharp wrote: > Freakin people crack me up. I don't even know if my > VFR could beat a > corvette, they are pretty fast aren't they. Maybe > off the line but they got > to have the top end covered pretty well. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 28 10:22:07 2004 Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 10:26:22 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Anyone you know? Last evening, as I and a few friends were headed to dinner after riding back from Solomons, we (some of us more than others due to position) witnessed a sport bike crash on Shady Grove Road. I'm not sure of the model of bike, but it was on the larger side, and a pinkish red. When I saw it it was on its side in the left turn lane of Shady Grove westbound at the Mid County Highway intersection, the rider was on his front on the median, and the cop was standing over him putting the cuffs on, but those farther ahead saw the whole sequence that got it there. Apparently this moron was running from the police. Must have figured that with a high powered sport bike, the cops could never keep up or something. He tried to turn from Shady Grove eastbound onto the Mid County Highway, and didn't make it. Almost took out a young couple on a yellow sport bike in the process. He went down, started to get up, but by then the cop that was chasing him was out of his car, gun drawn, and giving orders to stay down, so he did (first smart thing he'd done all day probably). Only took a few seconds to get from crash to cuffs...I was only a few hundred yards back from the lead bikes in our group (the two of us at the end got caught at the previous light), and they saw the whole thing, while I just saw the cuffing. For the detail-oriented, the guy seemed to have hurt his arm in the crash...he was holding it as he started to get up according to the second rider in our group...but he got cuffed anyway. Wonder if this one will show up on one of those "Worlds Stupidest Criminals" shows someday? Do Montgomery County cops have video cameras in their cars? BTW - there were *lots* of bikes out yesterday. Passed them constantly all the way to and from Solomons, about 3/4 Harleys, and the rest various sport bikes. There was even a small group of sportbikes gathering at Dempsey's where we were meeting up in the morning. There was another pack of about 8 bikes that went by on 108 just after we got back there in the evening, and two of them headed down 108 using only the rear tire...I guess they wanted to talk to the cops too, and were out hunting for one to do business with... -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 28 10:44:33 2004 From: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" To: "'Mike Bartman'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Anyone you know? Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 10:44:24 -0400 Sounds like the moron in question was riding a Hyabusa they come in a pinkish/reddish color. I saw a lot of cops out too on 108 I took the father-in-law out on a little ride to Ellicott City for lunch. It was a great ride keep the speed to a minimum. On the way into Ellicott City on Frederick Road just as you get into the Historic District a cop stepped out and stopped us. He reminded us that the speed limit was 30 mph. I was going 30mph because I had just looked at my GPS. Oh well I didn't say anything just nodded and he sent us on our way with no ticket he wasn't running radar anyway so he couldn't give me a ticket anyway. Found some good roads out there. -----Original Message----- From: Mike Bartman [mailto:omni@XXXXXX] Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 10:26 AM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Anyone you know? Last evening, as I and a few friends were headed to dinner after riding back from Solomons, we (some of us more than others due to position) witnessed a sport bike crash on Shady Grove Road. I'm not sure of the model of bike, but it was on the larger side, and a pinkish red. When I saw it it was on its side in the left turn lane of Shady Grove westbound at the Mid County Highway intersection, the rider was on his front on the median, and the cop was standing over him putting the cuffs on, but those farther ahead saw the whole sequence that got it there. Apparently this moron was running from the police. Must have figured that with a high powered sport bike, the cops could never keep up or something. He tried to turn from Shady Grove eastbound onto the Mid County Highway, and didn't make it. Almost took out a young couple on a yellow sport bike in the process. He went down, started to get up, but by then the cop that was chasing him was out of his car, gun drawn, and giving orders to stay down, so he did (first smart thing he'd done all day probably). Only took a few seconds to get from crash to cuffs...I was only a few hundred yards back from the lead bikes in our group (the two of us at the end got caught at the previous light), and they saw the whole thing, while I just saw the cuffing. For the detail-oriented, the guy seemed to have hurt his arm in the crash...he was holding it as he started to get up according to the second rider in our group...but he got cuffed anyway. Wonder if this one will show up on one of those "Worlds Stupidest Criminals" shows someday? Do Montgomery County cops have video cameras in their cars? BTW - there were *lots* of bikes out yesterday. Passed them constantly all the way to and from Solomons, about 3/4 Harleys, and the rest various sport bikes. There was even a small group of sportbikes gathering at Dempsey's where we were meeting up in the morning. There was another pack of about 8 bikes that went by on 108 just after we got back there in the evening, and two of them headed down 108 using only the rear tire...I guess they wanted to talk to the cops too, and were out hunting for one to do business with... -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 28 10:54:21 2004 Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 10:54:15 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Cell phone coverage I've been pretty happy with Cingular for my various peregrinations. The wife had a major buzz crunch to discover Nextel is absent from entire states in the West. My Cingular coverage is nearly universal these days along the Interstate routes and the main US trunk routes. I got signals everywhere I needed one, except Glacier Nat'l Park and most of Eastern Montana along US 2. That's a big dead zone, but there are these old-fashioned devices called "pay phones." Even Old Faithful in Yellowstone has a tower these days; and lots of tour-ons yakking away. These days, even the wife's family's cabin in the depths of the Big Horn National Forest in Wyoming has service, if you hike to the top of the hill. Yes, I'm baaack. 5,600 miles later. Lotsa cold and rain. It's still Spring out there. Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 28 11:06:09 2004 Subject: RE: Late night worries and some observations about Delaware Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 11:05:59 -0400 From: "Smith, Andrew" To: "Rob Sharp" , "Julian Halton" , , I had the exact same thing happen to me, with a Corvette as well. What's with them? They smoke everything on 4 wheels too easily that they feel like they need a bigger challenge? Usually I don't give in to cage drivers, but I must have had a rush of blood to the head. If you want to know, the CBR600RR + 190 lb rider + 110 lb (expert passenger) wife destroys the vette off the line. We were on Blake lane in Fairfax and after changing to second gear, pulling out about 2 car lengths and travelling at 80, I swiftly slowed down to a more reasonable 35 (Blake lane is notorious for sneaky radar traps and cops on bikes). Aforementioned Vette sped up to approximately 100 and kept blazing away down Blake lane whereupon I sincerely hope he was caught by the cops :) I figure without a passenger and in a higher speed zone there would be no competition. Before anyone mentions it, I am well aware that racing in general is a dangerous pursuit especially in a low speed zone and with wife in tow. Like I said, sometimes you see red. /Andy (it felt good). > -----Original Message----- > From: Rob Sharp [mailto:rob@XXXXXX] > Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 10:04 AM > To: Julian Halton; PenguinBiker@XXXXXX; dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Late night worries and some observations about Delaware > > I had some guy in a Vette try to race me. We were stopped at > a light (two > lanes) and after the light the road merged into one lane. He > starts it by revving his engine and what not. I just might > have revved mine a bit too :-D. > Anyhow the light goes green and he takes off. I sit there > for a second and then take off. I am thinking no way I am > gonna have this guy run me off the road and kill me. Glad I > didn't cause he smokes em and pulls ahead of me. > Mean while I am taking off at an extra slow pace to avoid the > situation. > > Then like 2-300 yards *LATER* slams on the brakes and pulls into his > development. > > Freakin people crack me up. I don't even know if my VFR > could beat a corvette, they are pretty fast aren't they. > Maybe off the line but they got to have the top end covered > pretty well. > > Rob > > On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 09:31:51 -0400, Julian Halton wrote > > Well, the great thing about my route is that there are 0 vehicles > > until I cross the Key Bridge. Once I get into sweet > Virginia, I takes > > less than a minute.as I turn right onto Lee highway *some > joker of the > > moment* decides they want to race, once I get on the 66 it happens > > again. > > > > Spent a wonderful weekend at the beach.in Delaware noticed > more than > > 70% of riders were helmetless. > > > -- > Rob Sharp > 1996 Honda VFR 750 > 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme > SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA > Network Security Engineer > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 28 11:21:41 2004 From: To: Paul Wilson , Subject: Re: Cell phone coverage Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 11:21:33 -0400 >My Cingular coverage is nearly universal these days along >the Interstate routes and the main US trunk routes. Just back from Europe. Coverage is universal. Not having coverage is the exception. Full GPRS, for the most part. Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 28 11:37:43 2004 Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 10:37:37 -0400 To: "Rob Sharp" , "Julian Halton" , , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Late night worries and some observations about Delaware At 10:03 AM 6/28/04 -0400, Rob Sharp wrote: >Then like 2-300 yards *LATER* slams on the brakes and pulls into his >development. He was just following the D.C. area driving rule: Me first! >Freakin people crack me up. I don't even know if my VFR could beat a >corvette, they are pretty fast aren't they. Maybe off the line but they got >to have the top end covered pretty well. Rumor has it that they do 0-60 in under 5 seconds, and top out at about 160 mph. They corner pretty well too. This page has some numbers from owners. One guy has a scan of his track numbers. 1/4 mile time was just over 13 seconds, with a finish speed of 107.6 mph. http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=825671&page=2 A big sportbike could probably beat one, at least in a straight line up to 60. Don't most of the big sportbikes have 0-60 times under 4 seconds? Some of the other types of bikes might do well in a dragrace too...wasn't the Kawasaki Eliminator rated for under 4 seconds 0-60? Top speed was lower than a 'vette, but it got to its top speed quicker. If you want to find out, a drag strip is the place to do it...not the street. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 28 11:44:40 2004 Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 08:44:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Driving record reciprocity?? Purely spectulative question, naturally, what are the chances of "performance awards" from say Michigan and Nebraska showing up on one's DC driving record? Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 28 11:57:14 2004 Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 11:59:50 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Beating 'vettes (was: RE: Late night worries and some observations about Delaware) At 11:05 AM 6/28/04 -0400, Smith, Andrew wrote: >I had the exact same thing happen to me, with a Corvette as well. What's >with them? They smoke everything on 4 wheels too easily that they feel >like they need a bigger challenge? Everything except a Viper maybe. ;-) Isnt' Ford coming out with a new version of the Shelby Cobra? 10 cylinder engine with well over 500hp and about the same torque in ft-lbs? I passed a car down in St. Mary's yesterday that could probably have given a 'vette a real run. I'm not *sure* what it was...it was heavily modified, but if I had to guess, I'd say some sort of early 70's Charger. One of the more obvious mods, besides the Candy Apple Red paint job, was the huge chrome supercharger sticking a foot and a half out of the hood, complete with 4" toothed drive belt. I passed it because it was making a right turn...no idea how any bike, including a fancy sportbike, would do against something like that in a dragrace. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 28 12:08:51 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 12:08:33 EDT Subject: Re: Late night worries and some observations about Delaware To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/28/2004 10:15:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time, rob@XXXXXX writes: > We were stopped at a light (two > lanes) and after the light the road merged into one lane. I was at one of those a while back and as I pulled from the light I heard a sort of purr/growl sort of a sound next to me. Turned out to be one of the new (at the time) VW beetles trying to race me to the merge area. I was laughing so hard he actually beat me there. > He starts it by > revving his engine and what not. I just might have revved mine a bit too :-D. > Anyhow the light goes green and he takes off. > I sit there for a second and > then take off. I have had that one happen also. Only the reason I sat there for a second was that I saw the cop #:-) > Freakin people crack me up. I don't even know if my VFR could beat a > corvette, they are pretty fast aren't they. Maybe off the line but they got > to have the top end covered pretty well. I remember reading an article by a fellow who had ridden his bike (a BMW) for a week or so while his high dollar Porsche was being serviced. When he got his car back the performance was so bad that he brought the car back to the shop. Turned out there was nothing at all wrong with his cage, he had just gotten used to the performance of his bike. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC 1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European 1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles 1976, Honda CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 28 12:47:07 2004 Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 12:47:03 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Beating 'vettes (was: RE: Late night worries and some observations about Delaware) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >> They smoke everything on 4 wheels too easily that they feel >>like they need a bigger challenge? > >Everything except a Viper maybe. ;-) > >Isnt' Ford coming out with a new version of the Shelby >Cobra? 10 cylinder engine with well over 500hp and about >the same torque in ft-lbs? [Dave] Maybe. The GT has 500hp / 500tq, and has logged consistent 0-60 times of mid 3 seconds. That's damn impressive FOR A CAGE. And about on par with a decent 750cc sport bike you can buy used for about $6k... I would point out that literbikes are capable of reaching 60 in 3.0 & 100 in ~7 seconds with a ham fisted rider... > >I passed a car down in St. Mary's yesterday that could >probably have given >a 'vette a real run. ... >chrome supercharger sticking a foot and a half out of the >hood, complete with 4" toothed drive belt. [Dave] I'm sure it's possible to beat a good liter bike with one of these, but it would be cost and drivability prohibitive... Remembering that there is always someone faster, I will comment that 2 times I've staged against one of these not street legal, supercharged big blocks with open headers, slicks and had to be trailered to Midnight Madness, on my (admittedly heavily modified zx11), I beat both of them. I only talked to one subsequently, and he admitted to an 11.00 run, I didnt' get his trap speed. Apologies, but I cannot tell you by how much I beat both, I was _not_ looking back :-) At least one of these runs was 10.?? at 140 something or other. No doubt there's trailer queens out there capable of far faster acceleration, but speed costs $$$$$... It ain't always horsepower that wins the race. If they can't put it to the ground, they're just lining OPEC's pocket books. Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 28 12:49:35 2004 Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 12:49:24 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Driving record reciprocity?? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Paul asks >Purely spectulative question, naturally, what are the >chances of "performance awards" from say Michigan and >Nebraska showing up on one's DC driving record? [Dave] Google "Driver's license compact". probably better than average chance. National Motorists Association has some info and resources... www.motorists.org. HTH Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 28 12:52:51 2004 Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 12:53:08 -0400 From: Skip CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Beating 'vettes (was: RE: Late night worries and some observations about Delaware) Dave Yates wrote: > [Dave] Maybe. The GT has 500hp / 500tq, and has logged > consistent 0-60 times of mid 3 seconds. That's damn > impressive FOR A CAGE. And about on par with a decent 750cc > sport bike you can buy used for about $6k... > > I would point out that literbikes are capable of reaching 60 > in 3.0 & 100 in ~7 seconds with a ham fisted rider... it would shock the shit outta me to have a car hanging with me as I ham-fisted the trottle. --skip "Throttles are binary switches" smith From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 28 13:16:59 2004 From: "Rob Keiser" To: glenn_dysart@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Late night worries and some observations about Delaware Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 13:04:36 -0400 Where has Wayne been? He could help us prove this. ;) Rob '98 VFR800 From: Glenn Dysart To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Late night worries and some observations about Delaware Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 07:05:12 -0700 (PDT) If you really got on it you could easily smoke a Corvette. By the time he caught up to you the top end would mean nothing. Glenn --- Rob Sharp wrote: > Freakin people crack me up. I don't even know if my > VFR could beat a > corvette, they are pretty fast aren't they. Maybe > off the line but they got > to have the top end covered pretty well. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 28 13:21:32 2004 From: "Jim McGonigle" To: "'Rob Keiser'" , , Subject: RE: Late night worries and some observations about Delaware Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 13:21:29 -0400 Last I heard he was in the Outer Banks for a while. Besides, Wayne's sense of speed is a little off. His vette is now modified which means anything less than a ballistic missile will have issues. For the record, most sport bikes (600s and higher) will easily handle a stock vette its ass. Besides, MOST people who drive 'vettes really don't know how to drive and will most likely just smoke their wheels (w/o traction control) at the line. At best a 'vette is in the 12s, most sportbikes are easily in the low 11s. The liter bikes are in the 10s. IMHO, -Jim -----Original Message----- From: Rob Keiser [mailto:robkeiser@XXXXXX] Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 1:05 PM To: glenn_dysart@XXXXXX; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Late night worries and some observations about Delaware Where has Wayne been? He could help us prove this. ;) Rob '98 VFR800 From: Glenn Dysart To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Late night worries and some observations about Delaware Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 07:05:12 -0700 (PDT) If you really got on it you could easily smoke a Corvette. By the time he caught up to you the top end would mean nothing. Glenn --- Rob Sharp wrote: > Freakin people crack me up. I don't even know if my > VFR could beat a > corvette, they are pretty fast aren't they. Maybe > off the line but they got > to have the top end covered pretty well. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 28 13:23:14 2004 Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 13:23:08 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Beating 'vettes (was: RE: Late night worries and some observations about Delaware) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Skip bragged: >> in 3.0 & 100 in ~7 seconds with a ham fisted rider... > >it would shock the shit outta me to have a car hanging with >me as I ham-fisted the trottle. >--skip "Throttles are binary switches" smith > [Dave] I think 'ham fisted' may not have been the best choice. Substitute 'candy-ass' or 'squid' or 'rider terrified of looping the bike'... Not being anywhere near the quarter miler on a bike that Wayne is, my last 3 or 4 trips involved wheelieing, rear wheel spin, and 1 of them involved both at launch... If you're able to treat your bike's throttle as a binary switch, what's wrong with your motor ? :-) Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 28 13:31:39 2004 Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 13:32:04 -0400 From: Skip CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Beating 'vettes (was: RE: Late night worries and some observations about Delaware) Dave Yates wrote: > > Skip bragged: > >> in 3.0 & 100 in ~7 seconds with a ham fisted rider... > > > >it would shock the shit outta me to have a car hanging with > >me as I ham-fisted the trottle. > >--skip "Throttles are binary switches" smith > > > > [Dave] I think 'ham fisted' may not have been the best > choice. Substitute 'candy-ass' or 'squid' or 'rider > terrified of looping the bike'... > > Not being anywhere near the quarter miler on a bike that > Wayne is, my last 3 or 4 trips involved wheelieing, rear > wheel spin, and 1 of them involved both at launch... > > If you're able to treat your bike's throttle as a binary > switch, what's wrong with your motor ? :-) > > Dave Yates not a thing for a 20 year old litre-bike :) it still throws about 100 hp at the wheel, still scares me every now and then... could a new 600 hand me my ass? yeah, prolly. But I don't have to downshift to pass. :~) --skip, not afraid... just cautious. :~) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 28 14:14:37 2004 Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 14:14:08 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Driving record reciprocity?? X-AOL-IP: 65.86.98.162 X-AOL-Language: english Purely speculative answer, probably won't. ;-) I doubt either one of those states has reciprocity with the District. A little too far away. :-) Scooter In a message dated 6/28/2004 11:44:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time, viffermaniac@XXXXXX writes: > > > Purely spectulative question, naturally, what are the chances of "performance awards" from say Michigan and Nebraska > showing up on one's DC driving record? > > > Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org > 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 28 14:25:16 2004 Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 14:24:27 -0400 (EDT) From: dan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Late night worries and some observations about Delaware On Mon, 28 Jun 2004, Jim McGonigle wrote: > control) at the line. At best a 'vette is in the 12s, most sportbikes are > easily in the low 11s. The liter bikes are in the 10s. > The new liter bikes are well into the 9's. There's some guy around with a ZX-10 almost touching 8's with a pipe and a PC. Most hyperbikes have no problem getting in the 9's with a competant rider. The fastest "street legal"(=DOT tires) cars are in the mid 9's. Dan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 28 14:29:42 2004 From: To: Subject: Re: Re: Late night worries and some observations about Delaware Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 14:29:33 -0400 > > From: Mike Bartman > Date: 2004/06/28 Mon AM 10:37:37 EDT > To: "Rob Sharp" , "Julian Halton" , > , > Subject: Re: Late night worries and some observations about Delaware > > At 10:03 AM 6/28/04 -0400, Rob Sharp wrote: > > >Then like 2-300 yards *LATER* slams on the brakes and pulls into his > >development. > > He was just following the D.C. area driving rule: Me first! > > >Freakin people crack me up. I don't even know if my VFR could beat a > >corvette, they are pretty fast aren't they. Maybe off the line but they got > >to have the top end covered pretty well. > > Rumor has it that they do 0-60 in under 5 seconds, and top out at about 160 > mph. They corner pretty well too. > That's impressive but there's other cars out there, not as well known that are pretty damn quick as well. I test drove the Lexus GS430 a couple of weeks ago and it was *damn fast*. 300hp 0-60 in 5.8 secs. There's some minor mods mentioned in the Lexus groups that indicate that it's a pretty easy and cheap mod to get another 25+ hp and lower the 0-60 to close to 5 seconds. All while listening to Mozart. ;-) -aki From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 28 14:31:36 2004 Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 14:31:31 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Driving record reciprocity?? -----Original Message----- From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX Purely speculative answer, probably won't. ;-) I doubt either one of those states has reciprocity with the District. A little too far away. :-) Scooter In a message dated 6/28/2004 11:44:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time, viffermaniac@XXXXXX writes: > > > Purely spectulative question, naturally, what are the chances of "performance awards" from say Michigan and Nebraska > showing up on one's DC driving record? > DC is a member of the Non-Resident Violator's Compact, along with 45 states. That means they report moving violations to each other. You may or may not accumulate points on your "home" license; that's up to the individual DMVs, but most moving violations will appear on your record. OTOH, it turns out Michigan is one of the five that is not a member of the NRVC, along with MA, TN, GA and WI. http://www.aamva.org/Documents/drvCompactsMapMapColor.PDF So, it looks like it's going to be 1 for 2, for our mythical biker. Unless bureaucratic ineptitude takes hold. Thanks for the off-list replies. Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 28 14:32:12 2004 Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 11:32:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Driving record reciprocity?? To: Paul Wilson , dc-cycles@XXXXXX michigan - nope nebraska - yep --- Paul Wilson wrote: > Purely spectulative question, naturally, what are the > chances of "performance awards" from say Michigan and > Nebraska showing up on one's DC driving record? > > > Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org > 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 28 15:08:01 2004 Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 15:04:46 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Beating 'vettes (was: RE: Late night worries and some observations about Delaware) At 12:48 PM 6/28/04 -0400, John White wrote: >>>> Hang with my bike. I only have a YZF600R but it's more than any car I've run into can handle. I need those little stickers that you put on the bike for your kills. So far I need a Porsche, Vette, Supra Turbo, and a Lightning stickerSmiley emoticon. The funniest ones are those little imports with the big wheels, lowering kits and after market spoilers that look like something out of an erector set. They sit there revving their 2 liter engines, sounding like a mad bee in a can, and all I can think of is "Chicken Hawk". I was around for the Muscle Car Era (though at the time too young and poor to afford one), and I've seen and heard what a *real* car is like, and these little squirrels aren't even close. Some of them claim pretty impressive horsepower ratings for their size (like 230, 260 etc.), but if you look at the torque values (100, 105), you realize they have no guts, and are depending on high revs for the HP ratings. Their 1/4 mile times are pretty poor too...sort of like the family sedans of the 60s...18 seconds is considered pretty darned good from what I've seen on shows like "Tuner Challenge...they've even gotten happy over 13 seconds for 1/8 mile! Muscle cars were down around 13 second quarters, stock, in some cases...lower with mods. My High School gym teacher had a Z-28 that was doing between 11 and 12 second quarters...and he still drove it to work. Of course, that was before all the air pollution legislation hit, and compression ratios dropped like rocks, and things like catalytic convertors became the norm, and top octane ratings dropped from 108 down to the current 93 or so. With today's high tech they are starting to revive a bit though. There are some trucks around that might give a bike a hard time...though none are stock. ;-) -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 28 15:17:19 2004 Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 15:21:36 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Beating 'vettes (was: RE: Late night worries and some observations about Delaware) At 12:47 PM 6/28/04 -0400, Dave Yates wrote: >[Dave] Maybe. The GT has 500hp / 500tq, and has logged >consistent 0-60 times of mid 3 seconds. That's damn >impressive FOR A CAGE. >I would point out that literbikes are capable of reaching 60 >in 3.0 & 100 in ~7 seconds with a ham fisted rider... For a STREET cage anyway. A top fuel dragster is a cage too, though anything but street legal, and they can do 0-100 in ~1 sec, and finish a 1/4 mile in under 5 seconds at over 300 mph, with a good run. I don't know that drag bikes can beat that...though they are damned fast too. Then there are semi-lookalikes, such as the Shockwave. Not great initial acceleration, but it's strong and steady until the driver cuts the throttle and pops the 'chutes. Particularly with the afterburners lit up...you do *not* want to tailgate a thing like that! ;-) http://www.shockwavejets.com/ The semi from hell: http://www.shockwavejets.com/shockwave/SHOCKWAVE34.JPG I saw this thing at an airshow in Frederick a few years ago. Raced an aerobatic sport plane. The plane started from a loop...came diving down, leveled out at about 100' over the runway (something in excess of 100 knots). The Shockwave started with the jets idling and at a full stop. When the driver saw the plane come over in the top of his windshield, he punched it...and beat the plane to the other end of the runway (which is less than a mile long (5220')...not long enough for the truck to hit full speed before they have to start slowing down). >It ain't always horsepower that wins the race. If they can't >put it to the ground, they're just lining OPEC's pocket books. No question. Tires, suspension, gearing, and most of all (at the top levels), driver skill, are all critical, not just power. And speed definitely costs, whether car, bike or exhibition vehicle. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 28 15:45:25 2004 Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 15:45:22 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Beating 'vettes (was: RE: Late night worries and some observations about Delaware) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >>I would point out that literbikes are capable of reaching >>60 in 3.0 & 100 in ~7 seconds with a ham fisted rider... > >For a STREET cage anyway. A top fuel dragster is a cage [Dave] In name only. Bringing top fuelers into the discussion is simply an escalation of way off topic banter about cages. >Then there are semi-lookalikes, such as the Shockwave. [Dave] And I'll never encounter one of these in my street riding adventures. A nice truck, but what kind of load can it carry ? Should I ever encounter this at the strip, I'll be sure to stay out of his jetwash. Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 28 16:09:03 2004 From: Eric Silberg Subject: The ride that nearly ended before it began Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 16:09:03 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out003.verizon.net from [141.156.38.127] at Mon, 28 Jun 2004 15:09:00 -0500 I was out riding with a friend yesterday - like so many others. Just a relaxing, leisurely ride. We were slabbing it up to some nicer roads in the Germantown area, and in the midst of a lane change, an entire re-tread, folded over, "materialized" in my path. The car in front of me cleared it as I made my final lane check, and started the change. Of course, my reaction was horrendous. I tensed up, countersteered back into my lane, but target fixated. I hit the re-tread at its fattest point, still leaned over a little bit. I felt the front wheel come up, my tank hit me in the stomach, and then the rear wheel hit. Next thing I know, I'm riding out moderate head shake, and wondering how I didn't hit the pavement. My friend was behind me, and by his account, both wheels came off the pavement by about 6 inches. I may be one of the few people to launch an SV-650... Amazingly, there were no residual vibrations. I pulled off anyway at the next opportunity to calm down and look the bike over. No apparent damage. So, after a few minutes, we got back on our bikes and started the ride. And am I glad that we did...what and amazing day it was to cruise around. What did I learn? I need to practice emergency evasions! This is something I do regularly, and have never had a problem with before. This time, though, my instincts were backwards and nearly killed me. Also, I need to do a better job of scanning the road ahead - not just in my lane, but everywhere that I may need to go. I was very lucky yesterday, but I hope I don't have to rely on that the next time. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 28 17:17:03 2004 From: "Sean Steele" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 17:16:07 -0400 Subject: Re: The ride that nearly ended before it began Eric -- Wow. Glad some pucker and a little shake-up were the worst of it. You were lucky; that could have ended very differently... -Sean Eric Silberg wrote: > I was out riding with a friend yesterday - like so many others. Just a > relaxing, leisurely ride. We were slabbing it up to some nicer roads in > the Germantown area, and in the midst of a lane change, an entire > re-tread, folded over, "materialized" in my path. The car in front of > me cleared it as I made my final lane check, and started the change. > > Of course, my reaction was horrendous. I tensed up, countersteered back > into my lane, but target fixated. I hit the re-tread at its fattest > point, still leaned over a little bit. I felt the front wheel come up, > my tank hit me in the stomach, and then the rear wheel hit. Next thing > I know, I'm riding out moderate head shake, and wondering how I didn't > hit the pavement. My friend was behind me, and by his account, both > wheels came off the pavement by about 6 inches. I may be one of the few > people to launch an SV-650... > > Amazingly, there were no residual vibrations. I pulled off anyway at > the next opportunity to calm down and look the bike over. No apparent > damage. So, after a few minutes, we got back on our bikes and started > the ride. And am I glad that we did...what and amazing day it was to > cruise around. > > What did I learn? I need to practice emergency evasions! This is > something I do regularly, and have never had a problem with before. > This time, though, my instincts were backwards and nearly killed me. > Also, I need to do a better job of scanning the road ahead - not just in > my lane, but everywhere that I may need to go. I was very lucky > yesterday, but I hope I don't have to rely on that the next time. > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 28 18:27:23 2004 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: The ride that nearly ended before it began Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 18:27:15 -0400 Damn railroad crossing on 17 somewhere just N of 66 had me launching my SV over Memorial Day weekend. >From: Eric Silberg >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: The ride that nearly ended before it began >Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 16:09:03 -0400 > I may be one of the few people to launch an SV-650... _________________________________________________________________ MSN Movies - Trailers, showtimes, DVD's, and the latest news from Hollywood! http://movies.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200509ave/direct/01/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 28 19:18:29 2004 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "rich hall" , Subject: Launching SVs (& other bikes) on RR Xings Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 19:18:36 -0400 Yes, slow down for that one. There's a bump sign, and they mean it. Passed over it (late) last night. MD Rt. 28 at Point of Rocks used to be very bad: rough and crossed at ~45-degree angle, but they finally fixed it this spring. I've had some "moments of concern" on that one. Paul in DC -- www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] ----- Original Message ----- From: "rich hall" > Damn railroad crossing on 17 somewhere just N of 66 had me launching my SV > over Memorial Day weekend. > > >From: Eric Silberg > > > I may be one of the few people to launch an SV-650... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 28 19:20:37 2004 Reply-To: "S. Russell" From: "S. Russell" To: "Paul Wilson" , Subject: Re: Driving record reciprocity?? Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 19:19:21 -0400 according to a judge that I used to know, the district only has an agreement with Maryland and Virginia. If you get an out of state ticket other then DC/MD/VA, pay it and it doesn't show. I used to get tickets in North Dakota and they kept threatening me that they would show up, never did. Then again, it was only one dollar for every mile over. Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Wilson" To: Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 11:44 AM Subject: Driving record reciprocity?? > Purely spectulative question, naturally, what are the chances of "performance awards" from say Michigan and Nebraska showing up on one's DC driving record? > > > Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org > 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 28 19:20:47 2004 Reply-To: "S. Russell" From: "S. Russell" To: "Paul Wilson" , "rich hall" , Subject: Re: Launching SVs (& other bikes) on RR Xings Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 19:20:12 -0400 Isn't there still a bad one at a railroad crossing in Ijamsville? Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Wilson" To: "rich hall" ; Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 7:18 PM Subject: Launching SVs (& other bikes) on RR Xings > Yes, slow down for that one. There's a bump sign, and they mean it. Passed > over it (late) last night. MD Rt. 28 at Point of Rocks used to be very bad: > rough and crossed at ~45-degree angle, but they finally fixed it this > spring. I've had some "moments of concern" on that one. > > Paul in DC -- www.wilsonline.org > 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "rich hall" > > > > Damn railroad crossing on 17 somewhere just N of 66 had me launching my SV > > over Memorial Day weekend. > > > > >From: Eric Silberg > > > > > > I may be one of the few people to launch an SV-650... > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 28 19:58:18 2004 Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 19:59:15 -0400 Subject: The ride nearly ended before it began From: Bob McKeithen To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I'll bet if really think back and analyze the situation you will realize you were following too closely!!! Bob From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jun 28 20:58:39 2004 From: Eric Silberg Subject: Re: The ride nearly ended before it began Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 20:58:30 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out007.verizon.net from [141.156.38.127] at Mon, 28 Jun 2004 19:58:36 -0500 Possible, but I'm fairly sure I wasn't. Well, not too closely by normal standards...maybe when I'm paying some attention to the rider I'm leading I need to leave more of a margin for myself. I didn't realize jumping road bikes was so common :) On Jun 28, 2004, at 7:59 PM, Bob McKeithen wrote: > I'll bet if really think back and analyze the situation you will > realize you were following too closely!!! > Bob > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 29 08:26:28 2004 Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 08:26:11 -0400 From: Dale Horstman To: Mike Bartman CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Late night worries and some observations about Delaware Mike Bartman wrote: > This page has some numbers from owners. One guy has a scan of his track > numbers. 1/4 mile time was just over 13 seconds, with a finish speed of > 107.6 mph. > > http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=825671&page=2 > > A big sportbike could probably beat one, at least in a straight line up to > 60. Don't most of the big sportbikes have 0-60 times under 4 seconds? I would imagine so. Even the Concours can get to 60 in under 4, and do the quarter in 12-something. *With* the hard bags attached. :) -- Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark) Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX '98 Concours - BugSlayer Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth '99 Concours - Grape Nehi CM #001 NRA IBA COG '82 GS850G The Mason Dixon 20-20 Endurance Rally: The Hole Dam Rally Come join us in 2005: http://www.md2020.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 29 09:36:20 2004 Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 09:35:55 -0400 From: Brian Roach To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Shock Adjustment Question PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > I would say that your spring is "settling in" and needs to be readjusted. Do > not get carried away, just a little should do. (It is always a pain when going > from just a rider to rider and passenger. And then there is luggage if you > travel...) While I rarely disagree with John, I'm going to wager that 25k miles has taken its toll on the oil in the shock, rather than the spring. Oil will break down far faster than a 500lbs spring will. Is it a non-adjustable shock? Usually aftermarket shocks have compression and rebound adjusters. Try increasing the compression damping (The knob on the nitrogen canister) and see if it stiffens the rear. If it doesn't, the oil is fried and you should have the shock freshened up with new oil and nitrogen. As for the preload adjustment - Motion Pro has a shock wrench for $16 that makes life MUCH easier. It fits on the preload collar and lets you turn it easily. - Roach -- http://www.speedwerks.com The one-stop shop for all your motorcycling needs! (302) 672 - 7223 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 29 14:47:01 2004 From: "Sean Steele" To: "DC Cycles" Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 14:46:07 -0400 Subject: Snatch pebble from my hand... TRY AGAIN! Listers... anyone dying to be called "sensei"? If so: http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mcy/34086609.html -- Sean Steele WAR-shington, DC '92 "Can these shocks get any softer?" Seca II From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 29 14:58:41 2004 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Mike Bartman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Beating 'vettes (was: RE: Late night worries and some observations about Delaware) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 15:01:25 -0400 I don't believe octane ratings dropped that much. Gasoline used to be rated with the RON or MON method. Now it's it's rated with the RMS or (RON/MON)^2. Unless you are talking about leaded gasoline. I believe RON always ends up being a little high on the octane scale so like 87 octane RON method would be like 83 RMS method. rob On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 15:04:46 -0400, Mike Bartman wrote > Of course, that was before all the air pollution legislation hit, and > compression ratios dropped like rocks, and things like catalytic convertors > became the norm, and top octane ratings dropped from 108 down to the > current 93 or so. With today's high tech they are starting to > revive a bit though. There are some trucks around that might give a > bike a hard time...though none are stock. ;-) > > -- Mike B. > > '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non- > Harley folks) > > Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes > is better. -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 29 15:05:09 2004 From: To: "DC Cycles" Subject: Re: Snatch pebble from my hand... TRY AGAIN! Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 15:04:53 -0400 > > From: "Sean Steele" > Date: 2004/06/29 Tue PM 02:46:07 EDT > To: "DC Cycles" > Subject: Snatch pebble from my hand... TRY AGAIN! > > Listers... anyone dying to be called "sensei"? If so: > http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mcy/34086609.html > > -- I could of SWORE I saw the exact same post last year and the year before that. -aki From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 29 15:24:52 2004 Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 15:29:07 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Unleaded gas vs. leaded gas and old bikes (was: Re: Beating 'vettes) At 03:01 PM 6/29/04 -0400, Rob Sharp wrote: >I don't believe octane ratings dropped that much. Gasoline used to be rated >with the RON or MON method. Now it's it's rated with the RMS or (RON/MON)^2. >Unless you are talking about leaded gasoline. I believe RON always ends up >being a little high on the octane scale so like 87 octane RON method would be >like 83 RMS method. Yes, I meant the leaded gas. That started to go away in the early to mid 70s. When I was pumping gas for a summer job ('74) they had both kinds...leaded at all the pumps but one, and that one was unleaded only (89 octane I think, but it's been a long time). The top octane at that station was like 106 or something in that area. I don't know how they were rating the octane for leaded gas, or how that might affect comparisons between leaded and unleaded numbers. I do know that the octane ratings for readily available gas dropped enough in real terms that the compression ratios in car engines had to come way down, with an associated drop in performance. 10 and 11:1 were common in hot cars in the late 60s, and now the numbers are more like 8:1 or 9:1 I think (corrections welcome if that's off). Do bikes made pre-unleaded gas have problems running unleaded? Do they have to add octane boosters, or were ways found to alter them to let them burn modern gas? I know there are still a fair number of H-D, Indian, and other bikes going back to the 40s or before that were all designed with leaded gas in mind...how are they coping? -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 29 15:26:48 2004 Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 12:26:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Snatch pebble from my hand... TRY AGAIN! To: DC Cycles --- adamme1@XXXXXX wrote: > > > > > From: "Sean Steele" > > Date: 2004/06/29 Tue PM 02:46:07 EDT > > To: "DC Cycles" > > Subject: Snatch pebble from my hand... TRY AGAIN! > > > > Listers... anyone dying to be called "sensei"? If so: > > http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mcy/34086609.html > > > > -- > > I could of SWORE I saw the exact same post last year and the year before > that. "And I'll pay you in advance with this cashier's check. It was given to me when I sold my truck so it's more than what I was going to pay you so if you'll just send me the difference, I'll come on by for the lesson." > > -aki Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 29 15:31:46 2004 Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 15:31:18 -0400 From: Brian Roach To: DC Cycles CC: Rob Sharp Subject: Re: Beating 'vettes (was: RE: Late night worries and some observations about Delaware) Rob Sharp wrote: > Unless you are talking about leaded gasoline. He was. Good 'ol leaded gas is what you need for big compression motors to keep them from detonating themselves silly. My TZ250 ('96 motor, bumped compression, leaded heads and ignition timing) needs 108 octane leaded race fuel, for example. They're just starting to come up with high-octane, unleaded race fuels because even there the reigns are being pulled tight when it comes to emissions and fuel types. I haven't looked into how they're doing it though ... I noticed Sunoco has a new 100 octane unleaded gas for sale at Summit Point and at some gas stations (usually ones near race tracks / drag strips). - Roach -- http://www.speedwerks.com The one-stop shop for all your motorcycling needs! (302) 672 - 7223 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 29 15:32:17 2004 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 15:32:08 EDT Subject: Re: Snatch pebble from my hand... TRY AGAIN! To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Actually, I think this guy has been on the list for a little while now. I'm pretty sure I've seen him post more than a few times before. Just because his ad may seem familiar, doesn't mean he's not really asking for help. Hell, if we stopped talking to people because what they wrote seemed familiar, no one on this list would be posting anything. ;-) Scooter In a message dated 6/29/2004 3:27:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dm_gsxr@XXXXXX writes: --- adamme1@XXXXXX wrote: > > > > > From: "Sean Steele" > > Date: 2004/06/29 Tue PM 02:46:07 EDT > > To: "DC Cycles" > > Subject: Snatch pebble from my hand... TRY AGAIN! > > > > Listers... anyone dying to be called "sensei"? If so: > > http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mcy/34086609.html > > > > -- > > I could of SWORE I saw the exact same post last year and the year before > that. "And I'll pay you in advance with this cashier's check. It was given to me when I sold my truck so it's more than what I was going to pay you so if you'll just send me the difference, I'll come on by for the lesson." > > -aki Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 29 15:36:00 2004 Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 15:35:47 -0400 From: Brian Roach To: Mike Bartman CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Unleaded gas vs. leaded gas and old bikes (was: Re: Beating 'vettes) Mike Bartman wrote: > Do bikes made pre-unleaded gas have problems running unleaded? Do they > have to add octane boosters, or were ways found to alter them to let them > burn modern gas? I know there are still a fair number of H-D, Indian, and > other bikes going back to the 40s or before that were all designed with > leaded gas in mind...how are they coping? If they haven't had the heads and ignition timing modified to run unleaded fuel (lower octane), then they wouldn't make it far on a tank of premium unleaded :) More than likely the people who own them are using octane boost or buying leaded fuel not meant for the street (You can still buy leaded AV gas at small airstrips for less-than-race-gas prices I believe - I had to do it a couple years ago in SC when there wasn't any race gas available at the track). - Roach -- http://www.speedwerks.com The one-stop shop for all your motorcycling needs! (302) 672 - 7223 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 29 17:11:44 2004 Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 17:14:55 -0400 To: Brian Roach From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Unleaded gas vs. leaded gas and old bikes (was: Re: Beating 'vettes) Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 03:35 PM 6/29/04 -0400, Brian Roach wrote: >Mike Bartman wrote: >> other bikes going back to the 40s or before that were all designed with >> leaded gas in mind...how are they coping? > >If they haven't had the heads and ignition timing modified to run >unleaded fuel (lower octane), then they wouldn't make it far on a tank >of premium unleaded :) What do those mods do? Are the heads carved out to lower the compression ratios? What happens with the timing? Earlier? Later? Why? As I've said, I'm no mechanic, but I do try to understand at least the basics of stuff like this. Besides just being generally curious, I find it also makes it a lot easier when I have to talk to a mechanic... ;-) >More than likely the people who own them are >using octane boost or buying leaded fuel not meant for the street (You >can still buy leaded AV gas at small airstrips for less-than-race-gas >prices I believe - I had to do it a couple years ago in SC when there >wasn't any race gas available at the track). Race gas must cost a mint then...av-gas generally runs about twice what you'll pay for gas at the corner station. Av-gas was still all leaded when I was flying in the mid-90s (100LL was the designation I think..."100 octane, Low Lead"...but it had a lot of lead in it despite the name). I doubt that it's changed hugely...same planes are still up there with the same engines for the most part (average age of a private plane is well over 30 years now). There was a program in the EAA (Experimental Aircraft Association) working with the FAA to certify some engines to use auto-gas (unleaded), because it was cheaper. The FAA is never quick to change anything that critical to safety though, so it was only in particular engines, and only for testing purposes to find out what doing that did to engine life, safety of flight, etc.. They've probably finished that testing by now, but I haven't kept up so I don't know how widely auto-gas might be being used these days. It would require each plane to get an STC (Supplemental Type Certificate) to switch fuels though, and same as with hydrogen power for cars, it's a chicken and egg thing...until a lot of planes use auto gas, airports won't sell it, and until airports sell it, running your plane on it is really inconvenient. There was a screwup with Philips in the 90s where some airports in a particular region had auto-gas delivered by mistake. Philips paid millions to plane owners who fueled up there, so that their engines could be torn down and rebuilt, or replaced due to that one...FAA required it because they had run on the wrong fuel, even if only once. At $20K up for a rebuild, it got expensive fast, but Philips didn't argue or hesitate, they just offered compensation right away, then followed through. Their mistake, they paid. Can't ask for better customer relations than that (once the mistake was made anyway). Back to bikes now... -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 29 17:28:08 2004 Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 14:27:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Ray Subject: Re: Unleaded gas vs. leaded gas and old bikes (was: Re: Beating 'vettes) To: Mike Bartman , Brian Roach Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX AFAIK, the modifiction to the heads had to do with hardening the valve seats & other things. One of the functions of the lead was as a lubricant. Of course, I never saw a real difference. My first truck was a '72 GMC sierra grande custom camper deluxe with a 402 (big block). By the time I got it in '87, it had at least 175K miles on it, and the leaded issues were the least of my problems.... As for the timing, someone else will have to respond to that. Brian --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 03:35 PM 6/29/04 -0400, Brian Roach wrote: > >Mike Bartman wrote: > > >> other bikes going back to the 40s or before that > were all designed with > >> leaded gas in mind...how are they coping? > > > >If they haven't had the heads and ignition timing > modified to run > >unleaded fuel (lower octane), then they wouldn't > make it far on a tank > >of premium unleaded :) > > What do those mods do? Are the heads carved out to > lower the compression > ratios? What happens with the timing? Earlier? > Later? Why? > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 29 17:35:59 2004 From: "Michael Jordan" To: Subject: RE: Unleaded gas vs. leaded gas and old bikes (was: Re: Beating 'vettes) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 17:35:46 -0400 > > >> other bikes going back to the 40s or before that > > were all designed with > > >> leaded gas in mind...how are they coping? You can buy tetraethyl lead to add to your own gas. Don't remember the brand name, but I bought a can for a friend with a Norton a few years ago. Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 29 18:24:56 2004 Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 18:24:46 -0400 From: Brian Roach To: Mike Bartman CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Unleaded gas vs. leaded gas and old bikes (was: Re: Beating 'vettes) Mike Bartman wrote: > What do those mods do? Are the heads carved out to lower the compression > ratios? What happens with the timing? Earlier? Later? Why? Shape and volume are different. Timing is less advanced. Octane is what resists detonation ... ignition advance (actually firing before TDC) will usually make more power, but causes detonation to occur (as does compression). > Race gas must cost a mint then...av-gas generally runs about twice what > you'll pay for gas at the corner station. About $4.50 - $18 per gal, depending on what you want :) ($15 - $18 a gallon is 5% oxygen fuel, 120+ octane). I run Powermist T111 which is about $6.50 a gallon. - Roach -- http://www.speedwerks.com The one-stop shop for all your motorcycling needs! (302) 672 - 7223 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 29 18:31:36 2004 Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 18:35:51 -0400 To: Brian Roach From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Unleaded gas vs. leaded gas and old bikes (was: Re: Beating 'vettes) Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 06:24 PM 6/29/04 -0400, Brian Roach wrote: >Mike Bartman wrote: >> What do those mods do? Are the heads carved out to lower the compression >> ratios? What happens with the timing? Earlier? Later? Why? > >Shape and volume are different. Timing is less advanced. Octane is what Ok, that all makes sense, thank you! >> Race gas must cost a mint then...av-gas generally runs about twice what >> you'll pay for gas at the corner station. > >About $4.50 - $18 per gal, depending on what you want :) ($15 - $18 a >gallon is 5% oxygen fuel, 120+ octane). I run Powermist T111 which is >about $6.50 a gallon. I can see why av-gas is attractive then! That's a mint all-right! Especially since the motors that need that stuff are probably lucky to get a few miles per gallon (the cages anyway). -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 29 18:57:39 2004 From: Lister Lynch To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" Subject: Hatfield McCoy trips? Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 18:59:44 -0400 Just came back from my second trip to the Hatfield McCoy trail system in WV so far this year and can't wait to go back again. A bunch of people on this board have off-road bikes too and I thought that if anyone was going out there, give a shout. I'll go again in a heartbeat. There really is nothing like doing some gnarly single track at the end of the day in the rain after beating yourself up on black diamonds... One guy had to stop and rest to calm down from shaking because of nerves. One guy had to stop and pray. :-) Good times. Mike XR400R -more bikes- From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 29 19:38:48 2004 Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 16:38:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Hatfield McCoy trips? To: Lister Lynch , "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" how about a weekday trip? -- tg (also w/ xr400) --- Lister Lynch wrote: > Just came back from my second trip to the Hatfield McCoy > trail system in WV > so far this year and can't wait to go back again. A > bunch of people on this > board have off-road bikes too and I thought that if > anyone was going out > there, give a shout. I'll go again in a heartbeat. > > There really is nothing like doing some gnarly single > track at the end of > the day in the rain after beating yourself up on black > diamonds... One guy > had to stop and rest to calm down from shaking because of > nerves. One guy > had to stop and pray. :-) Good times. > > Mike > XR400R > -more bikes- > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 29 21:00:36 2004 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Eric Silberg" , Subject: Re: The ride nearly ended before it began Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 21:00:29 -0400 Or perhaps had less than ideal lane position that didn't allow you to spot the junk in the road as you made the lane change. I know you were changing lanes, so this is not germane, but in ordinary "following" situations, go where the car tires go; that way you're less likely to be "surprised" by objects that appear in your path of travel. A car can straddle a lot of road junk and drivers don't give it a second thought. Also, try looking *through* the cars. I can do that on KLR, unless it has heavy (read illegal) tint or is a big-azz SUV, van, or truck. Paul in DC -- www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Silberg" > Possible, but I'm fairly sure I wasn't. Well, not too closely by > normal standards...maybe when I'm paying some attention to the rider > I'm leading I need to leave more of a margin for myself. > > I didn't realize jumping road bikes was so common :) > > On Jun 28, 2004, at 7:59 PM, Bob McKeithen wrote: > > > I'll bet if really think back and analyze the situation you will > > realize you were following too closely!!! > > Bob > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 29 22:12:08 2004 Reply-To: "S. Russell" From: "S. Russell" To: "Sean Steele" , "DC Cycles" Subject: Re: Snatch pebble from my hand... TRY AGAIN! Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 22:11:49 -0400 hmmm, I could use my fence painted this weekend. Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sean Steele" To: "DC Cycles" Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 2:46 PM Subject: Snatch pebble from my hand... TRY AGAIN! > Listers... anyone dying to be called "sensei"? If so: > http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mcy/34086609.html > > -- > Sean Steele > WAR-shington, DC > '92 "Can these shocks get any softer?" Seca II > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 29 22:26:40 2004 From: Eric Silberg Subject: Re: The ride nearly ended before it began Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 22:26:44 -0400 To: " " X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out006.verizon.net from [141.156.38.127] at Tue, 29 Jun 2004 21:26:37 -0500 My normal lane position, especially while in the lead, is in the left half of the lane, nominally in the "tire track". I do adjust based on the situation to make myself more visible or to give myself more time to react. In this case, the re-tread was straddling the lane I was in and the lane I was planning on changing into, to the right. My left side position gave me a less than ideal view of that section of road, especially since there was a car in front that would block that portion longer than any other. I should have seen it early enough regardless, except that the timing of my final over-the-shoulder check for both my follower and for traffic took my attention at the worst moment. Even seeing the debris when I did, I had plenty of time to react and avoid - I just reacted poorly. Looking "through" cars is good advice - I do this at intersections, but maybe not as much as I could on the road. On Jun 29, 2004, at 9:00 PM, Paul Wilson wrote: > Or perhaps had less than ideal lane position that didn't allow you to > spot > the junk in the road as you made the lane change. I know you were > changing > lanes, so this is not germane, but in ordinary "following" situations, > go > where the car tires go; that way you're less likely to be "surprised" > by > objects that appear in your path of travel. A car can straddle a lot > of > road junk and drivers don't give it a second thought. Also, try > looking > *through* the cars. I can do that on KLR, unless it has heavy (read > illegal) tint or is a big-azz SUV, van, or truck. > > Paul in DC -- www.wilsonline.org > 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Eric Silberg" > > > >> Possible, but I'm fairly sure I wasn't. Well, not too closely by >> normal standards...maybe when I'm paying some attention to the rider >> I'm leading I need to leave more of a margin for myself. >> >> I didn't realize jumping road bikes was so common :) >> >> On Jun 28, 2004, at 7:59 PM, Bob McKeithen wrote: >> >>> I'll bet if really think back and analyze the situation you will >>> realize you were following too closely!!! >>> Bob >>> >> >> > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jun 29 23:51:19 2004 X-Comment: AT&T Maillennium special handling code - c Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 23:45:38 -0400 From: Laura Roach To: Laura Roach Subject: Crazy for Pictures Hey kids! As many of you know, I am a crazy picture taker. Last week, my wonderful husband surprised me with a 35mm SLR, and wow, did it make a difference in my picture taking. I've been taking photos of racing for the past three years, and I've decided to try my hand at the world of sports photography. I'm starting small, with mostly just USGPRU events, and I've posted the pictures I took at VIR last weekend. I've built a Web site, and took over 300 photos of just the 125 and 250 practices and races. Take a peek and let me know what you think. http://laura.dcc-racing.org/LARRacePhotography/index.htm Laura From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 30 00:46:27 2004 Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 00:50:57 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: The ride nearly ended before it began At 10:26 PM 6/29/04 -0400, Eric Silberg wrote: >Looking "through" cars is good advice - I do this at intersections, but >maybe not as much as I could on the road. My dad taught me to watch the car in front of the car I'm following. The car I'm following will be reacting to that one, and if I can keep track of what it's doing, I'll have that much more time to react. Just don't forget to watch the one you're following too...it could be an idiot that will do something for no reason... ;-) -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 30 01:31:51 2004 Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 01:36:17 -0400 To: Laura Roach , Laura Roach From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Crazy for Pictures Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 11:45 PM 6/29/04 -0400, Laura Roach wrote: >over 300 photos of just the 125 and 250 practices and races. Take a peek >and let me know what you think. > >http://laura.dcc-racing.org/LARRacePhotography/index.htm Not bad at all! Very good timing on the action. Good sense of "story" in a lot of the pics too...like the 2nd one for 43, or 746. Watch the backgrounds though. That 2nd one for 43 would have been better if the bike racing by in the background had been a couple of feet farther ahead...so that it didn't look like it was growing out of the subject's back, and so that the contrast between the crash victim pushing his bike, and the racer still on the track was greater. I know, the timing was millisecond tight for that, but a motor drive might help if you can see that sort of thing coming in time to set it up. You fire a little early, take 3 or 4 shots, and hope that one of them came out right. I've read that knowing the sport is critical to good photography of it...you have to be able to tell ahead of time what's coming so you can set up for it, as well as to know where to be for the best chance of good shots. You seem to know the sport well... For framing, the subjects don't always have to be centered. Do you know the "rule of thirds"? It's in most good photography books composition section, and it gives you several more ways to frame a subject that "look good", other than centering. Basically, imagine lines horizontally and vertically, 1/3 of the way in from the edges of the frame. Along those lines, and especially where those lines cross, are good places to put the main focus of the shot, like a face, or a bike. Other locations in the frame just don't "work" as well in most cases (there are always exceptions... ;-) Try it...Frame the same subject (like your husband maybe) centered, left third, where the left third and top third lines intersect (upper left corner sort of), etc., then look over the pics and see which are most pleasing. Or look at pics in magazines or photography books and see where they put the main subject in the frame...it's usually centered or at one of the "rule of thirds" locations. Also, you can rotate the camera 90 degrees for situations like the third shot in 43...lose some of the grass and keep the subjects' lower halves. Some cropping can help here and there too. Like in 51, you've got good action, the main subjects are in the left part of the frame, headed right, there are nice sweeping curves to get a sense of motion for them...and then there's those wheels at the top from the bike in the distance...just cut that bit off and the picture would look better...to me anyway. If that leaves it looking unbalanced, you can trim some of the foreground grass too to fix it, but I doubt that would be required. Compare it to 601, which is a similar shot, but without the background distraction. 746 has a background distraction too (the number 5), but is otherwise pretty darned good. Cropping might ruin it though....maybe some digital retouching to remove the "5"? The focus seems a bit off, but since I'm looking at scanned images from a web site on an LCD monitor, the actual picture may well be just fine. The "story" aspects of that one are superb though. Are you "tracking" the bikes, or relying on a fast shutter speed? I'm guessing the latter from the un-blurred backgrounds even when the bikes are passing across the frame. Just for fun, you might want to try slowing the shutter, and "panning", by twisting at your waist, to keep the bike in the same spot in the frame long enough to get the shot (follow through like in golf...don't stop as soon as you fire the shutter). This results in a sharply focused bike (if you do it right...it can take practice to get good at it), but the background is speed-blurred. This not only lends a sense of speed to the subject, keeping it from looking like they were posed on side stands for the shot, but it also tends to eliminate background distractions, as they all blur together into an indistinct mass of background. Another biggie that my photography teacher, and several books I've read, made a big issue of is not to always take pictures while standing up. For what you are shooting this might not matter much, but if you get into shots in the pits or other places where your subjects are closer, shooting from low down, high up, or from inside things or whatever can make a more interesting, dramatic, or otherwise better shot. It can also let you frame a subject with a better background. Standing shot, for instance, might have a "busy" background with a lot of other people, or a concession stand or something, but a shot from lower down gives you clear sky, or an angular building, or some other more preferable thing as a backdrop for your subject. You look like you've got some talent, and your pictures are as good as many that I've seen published. You may already be aware of all the stuff above, but if not, now you are. ;-) Oh, one last suggestion...when you see a picture you like, try to figure out how it was made. Where the photographer was, how she was standing, whether there was any fill-flash or other lighting used, how they framed the subject, how they handled any foreground or background clutter that was present, whether they followed the subject or not, how they set up the depth of field to concentrate attention where they wanted it, any filters they might have used, etc.. If you get into the habit of doing that, you can often get some really good ideas to try in your own photos. Have fun, and keep it up! -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 30 07:00:03 2004 Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 03:59:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: Hatfield McCoy trips? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX A place I've been wanting to go... You'd be real hard pressed to make a day trip out of it considering its close to Charleston, WV. Mapquest shows it just shy of 380 miles from my house. Glenn --- Tom Gimer wrote: > how about a weekday trip? > > -- > tg (also w/ xr400) > > > --- Lister Lynch wrote: > > Just came back from my second trip to the Hatfield > McCoy > > trail system in WV > > so far this year and can't wait to go back again. > A > > bunch of people on this > > board have off-road bikes too and I thought that > if > > anyone was going out > > there, give a shout. I'll go again in a > heartbeat. > > > > There really is nothing like doing some gnarly > single > > track at the end of > > the day in the rain after beating yourself up on > black > > diamonds... One guy > > had to stop and rest to calm down from shaking > because of > > nerves. One guy > > had to stop and pray. :-) Good times. > > > > Mike > > XR400R > > -more bikes- > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 30 07:12:08 2004 Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 07:10:58 -0400 From: "De Boeser, Tom" To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" Subject: Alter Ego questions Hi, I've got a Joe Rocket Meteor 3.0 jacket that has started to leak during rain storms. The jacket has been water tight and for the money, I like it. I'm considering the Alter Ego jacket, but it needs to be "waterproof" ( within reason - i can understand a monsoon ). I'll be attempting to ride year round, I've got a heated vest but will the Alter Ego jacket be good for very cold weather? I like the "convertibility" for cool to warm weather, but I question the jackets water resistance and its wind resistance. Any other suggestions welcome... thanks, Tom de '98 VTR - searching for a ST1300 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 30 07:33:34 2004 Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 04:33:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Hatfield McCoy trips? To: Glenn Dysart , dc-cycles@XXXXXX if it's worth it, then let's plan an overnighter.... --- Glenn Dysart wrote: > A place I've been wanting to go... You'd be real hard > pressed to make a day trip out of it considering its > close to Charleston, WV. Mapquest shows it just shy > of 380 miles from my house. > > Glenn > > --- Tom Gimer wrote: > > how about a weekday trip? > > > > -- > > tg (also w/ xr400) > > > > > > --- Lister Lynch wrote: > > > Just came back from my second trip to the Hatfield > > McCoy > > > trail system in WV > > > so far this year and can't wait to go back again. > > A > > > bunch of people on this > > > board have off-road bikes too and I thought that > > if > > > anyone was going out > > > there, give a shout. I'll go again in a > > heartbeat. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 30 07:42:51 2004 From: Kirk Roy To: Subject: Re: Hatfield McCoy trips? Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 7:42:42 -0400 Everyone I know who has been there has raved about it: http://www.trailsheaven.com/ It sounds like it'd be worth more than an overnighter. Unfortunately for me that'll probably have to wait until next year... Kirk > From: Tom Gimer > Date: 2004/06/30 Wed AM 07:33:05 EDT > To: Glenn Dysart , dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Hatfield McCoy trips? > > if it's worth it, then let's plan an overnighter.... > > > --- Glenn Dysart wrote: > > A place I've been wanting to go... You'd be real hard > > pressed to make a day trip out of it considering its > > close to Charleston, WV. Mapquest shows it just shy > > of 380 miles from my house. > > > > Glenn > > > > --- Tom Gimer wrote: > > > how about a weekday trip? > > > > > > -- > > > tg (also w/ xr400) > > > > > > > > > --- Lister Lynch wrote: > > > > Just came back from my second trip to the Hatfield > > > McCoy > > > > trail system in WV > > > > so far this year and can't wait to go back again. > > > A > > > > bunch of people on this > > > > board have off-road bikes too and I thought that > > > if > > > > anyone was going out > > > > there, give a shout. I'll go again in a > > > heartbeat. > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 30 08:20:13 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 08:19:59 EDT Subject: Re: Shock Adjustment Question To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/29/2004 9:36:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time, roach@XXXXXX writes: > While I rarely disagree with John, I'm going to wager that 25k miles has > taken its toll on the oil in the shock, rather than the spring. Oil will > break down far faster than a 500lbs spring will. WELL!! Huff, puff, snort! That could well be but usually there is little or no damping on the compression stroke (the spring resists compression.) In addition due to the broken down or thin oil the shock would rebound (extend) faster, much faster due to the far greater percentage of damping being on the extension stroke making it less likely to "pump down" and bottom on multiple bumps. BTW I have seen bikes that had a problem bottoming out due to _over_ damping the rebound preventing the shock from fully extending for the next impact, perhaps that should be checked first. Also I tend to prescribe to the KISS principle and adjusting pre load is simpler and _lots_ cheaper then replacing the oil/entire shock. And if that dont work.... P.S. For your own safety shocks really _need_ to be working properly. As I have said before the primary function of your suspension is not to give your butt a comfy ride but to keep your tire on the road, maximizing traction. Reduce traction and you are _far_ more likely to wind up testing your protective gear. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC 1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European 1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles 1976, Honda CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 30 08:44:43 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 08:44:32 EDT Subject: Re: Unleaded gas vs. leaded gas and old bikes (was: Re: Beating 'vettes) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/29/2004 3:25:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, omni@XXXXXX writes: > Do bikes made pre-unleaded gas have problems running unleaded? The answer is yes, hell yes. The problem is not so much detonation (although my 76 CR _hates_ pump octane) but valve seat wear. Older bikes used a far softer material for the valve seats, so soft in fact that we used hand cutters, and I mean a simple "T" handle, no power, to re-cut valve seats, cannot do that today. Anyhow, lead builds up on the seat surface acting as a cushion and providing a renewable wear surface, instead of the metal wearing away, the lead did, and was just as quickly replaced. Put unleaded fuel in a bike/car/anything that has the old soft valve seats and you could wind up replacing the whole head. The good news is that they began putting in hardened seats back in the 70s. Note: I run aviation fuel in my wifes 1969 S90 it has a little, but enough, lead in it to do the job, but costs $$$. Note: installing hardened valve seats in older BMWs is still big business for a few shops. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC 1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European 1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles 1976, Honda CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 30 08:47:03 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 08:46:49 EDT Subject: Re: Unleaded gas vs. leaded gas and old bikes (was: Re: Beating 'vettes) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/29/2004 5:36:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mjordan812@XXXXXX writes: > You can buy tetraethyl lead to add to your own gas. Very, very, very nasty stuff. And last time I checked UPS required a substantial dangerous material fee to ship the stuff. Better off with avgas. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC 1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European 1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles 1976, Honda CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 30 08:49:22 2004 Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 08:49:02 -0400 From: Brian Roach To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Shock Adjustment Question PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > BTW I have seen bikes > that had a problem bottoming out due to _over_ damping the rebound preventing the > shock from fully extending for the next impact, perhaps that should be > checked first. "Packing down". I had this problem on my 125 at Summit last month - way too much rebound dialed into the forks for the bumps (I had previously been at Jennings, which is a super smooth track). Had to take out almost all of it to get the suspension working for Summit. Back to the problem at hand, I was thinking ... the rebound collar may have just worked itself loose and backed out :) Checking it and setting the sag would be the first and easiest thing to do. - Bri -- http://www.speedwerks.com The one-stop shop for all your motorcycling needs! (302) 672 - 7223 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 30 08:58:23 2004 Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 05:58:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: Hatfield McCoy trips? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX DC Cycles to Hatfield McCoy? I'm game. Glenn --- Tom Gimer wrote: > if it's worth it, then let's plan an overnighter.... > > > --- Glenn Dysart wrote: > > A place I've been wanting to go... You'd be real > hard > > pressed to make a day trip out of it considering > its > > close to Charleston, WV. Mapquest shows it just > shy > > of 380 miles from my house. > > > > Glenn > > > > --- Tom Gimer wrote: > > > how about a weekday trip? > > > > > > -- > > > tg (also w/ xr400) > > > > > > > > > --- Lister Lynch wrote: > > > > Just came back from my second trip to the > Hatfield > > > McCoy > > > > trail system in WV > > > > so far this year and can't wait to go back > again. > > > A > > > > bunch of people on this > > > > board have off-road bikes too and I thought > that > > > if > > > > anyone was going out > > > > there, give a shout. I'll go again in a > > > heartbeat. > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 30 09:03:17 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 09:03:06 EDT Subject: Re: The ride nearly ended before it began To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/29/2004 10:26:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ericsilberg@XXXXXX writes: > I should have seen it early enough > > Even seeing the debris when I did, I had plenty of time to react and > avoid - I just reacted poorly. You may not have. One of the unique problems with bikes evading road debris is the need to counter steer to initiate a swerve. The result is your contact patch moves _into_ the object you are trying to avoid before moving back in the direction of the swerve delaying the movement of the very thing you need to miss the debris with, your tire. As a result we really need clear vision of the road surface farther ahead then a cage. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC 1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European 1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles 1976, Honda CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 30 09:05:27 2004 Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 06:05:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Hatfield McCoy trips? To: Glenn Dysart , dc-cycles@XXXXXX cool. i think it's been 7 years since an organized overnight dc-cycles trip has taken off. as i know nothing about the trail system, i'll leave the planning to others. --- Glenn Dysart wrote: > DC Cycles to Hatfield McCoy? I'm game. > > Glenn > > --- Tom Gimer wrote: > > if it's worth it, then let's plan an overnighter.... > > > > > > --- Glenn Dysart wrote: > > > A place I've been wanting to go... You'd be real > > hard > > > pressed to make a day trip out of it considering > > its > > > close to Charleston, WV. Mapquest shows it just > > shy > > > of 380 miles from my house. > > > > > > Glenn > > > > > > --- Tom Gimer wrote: > > > > how about a weekday trip? > > > > > > > > -- > > > > tg (also w/ xr400) > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Lister Lynch wrote: > > > > > Just came back from my second trip to the > > Hatfield > > > > McCoy > > > > > trail system in WV > > > > > so far this year and can't wait to go back > > again. > > > > A > > > > > bunch of people on this > > > > > board have off-road bikes too and I thought > > that > > > > if > > > > > anyone was going out > > > > > there, give a shout. I'll go again in a > > > > heartbeat. > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! > > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 30 09:22:50 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 09:22:38 EDT Subject: Re: Shock Adjustment Question To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/30/2004 8:49:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time, roach@XXXXXX writes: > Checking it and setting > the sag would be the first and easiest thing to do. And that would cover any "ageing" in the spring at the same time. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 30 09:25:16 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 09:24:55 EDT Subject: Re: Hatfield McCoy trips? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/30/2004 9:05:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time, t_gimer@XXXXXX writes: > cool. i think it's been 7 years since an organized > overnight dc-cycles trip has taken off. Oh lordy I wanna go. First I would have to find some Avgas for the CR and then start it, BUT... John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC 1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European 1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles 1976, Honda CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 30 09:37:49 2004 Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 09:36:56 -0400 (EDT) From: dan To: "De Boeser, Tom" cc: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" Subject: Re: Alter Ego questions On Wed, 30 Jun 2004, De Boeser, Tom wrote: > Hi, > I've got a Joe Rocket Meteor 3.0 jacket that has started to leak > during rain storms. The jacket has been water tight and for the money, Send it back to JR. From what I hear they have great customer service and will replace any defective items well past their warranty period. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 30 09:41:22 2004 Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 06:40:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Alter Ego questions To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" --- "De Boeser, Tom" wrote: > Hi, > I've got a Joe Rocket Meteor 3.0 jacket that has started to leak > during rain storms. The jacket has been water tight and for the money, > I like it. I'm considering the Alter Ego jacket, but it needs to be > "waterproof" ( within reason - i can understand a monsoon ). I'll be > attempting to ride year round, I've got a heated vest but will the Alter > I have the alter-ego jacket. Since it's using a snap instead of velcro to "seal" the neck, I get leaks running down my front. No seals for the wrists so water runs back up to my elbows. If they could rework the seal to be velcro it'd be lots better. I use a tourmaster jacket under my alter-ego which has velcro for the neck and the wrists. > Ego jacket be good for very cold weather? I like the "convertibility" > for cool to warm weather, but I question the jackets water resistance > and its wind resistance. It seems to work pretty well down to reasonable temps however at about freezing I break out the gerbing's jacket liner and have been good to 8 degrees (so far). > Any other suggestions welcome... It seems like a decent jacket for fall and spring runs. Zip out the shell if it's warm, zip in the liner if it's wet. If you're in the _rain_ for more than 20 minutes, you'll probably get wet. > > thanks, Happy to help. > > Tom de '98 VTR - searching for a ST1300 Carl > > ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 30 09:45:34 2004 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 09:45:20 EDT Subject: Re: Crazy for Pictures To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Laura, Nice pics. I'm am amateur photo nut myself but, I use digital. ;-) I know I've posted pics before but, if you go to _www.webshots.com_ (http://www.webshots.com) and do a Find a Member lookup under the Community page for scooterfzr, you can check out some of my stuff. :-) Keep up the good work taking pics and I hope your little venture into the world of sports photography takes off. Scooter In a message dated 6/29/2004 11:51:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, laura@XXXXXX writes: Hey kids! As many of you know, I am a crazy picture taker. Last week, my wonderful husband surprised me with a 35mm SLR, and wow, did it make a difference in my picture taking. I've been taking photos of racing for the past three years, and I've decided to try my hand at the world of sports photography. I'm starting small, with mostly just USGPRU events, and I've posted the pictures I took at VIR last weekend. I've built a Web site, and took over 300 photos of just the 125 and 250 practices and races. Take a peek and let me know what you think. http://laura.dcc-racing.org/LARRacePhotography/index.htm Laura From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 30 09:50:51 2004 Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 09:50:38 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: The ride nearly ended before it began On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > In a message dated 6/29/2004 10:26:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > ericsilberg@XXXXXX writes: > > > I should have seen it early enough > > > > Even seeing the debris when I did, I had plenty of time to react and > > avoid - I just reacted poorly. > > You may not have. > One of the unique problems with bikes evading road debris is the need to > counter steer to initiate a swerve. The result is your contact patch moves _into_ > the object you are trying to avoid before moving back in the direction of the > swerve delaying the movement of the very thing you need to miss the debris > with, your tire. As a result we really need clear vision of the road surface > farther ahead then a cage. My thought, on reading the first post - a bit of a "relaxed" riding position - elbows and knees bent, acting as "shock absorbers" will help too, likely. That allows the bike to react to the road, without slamming the rider around, helping the rider keep control over the bike. One of the exercises from the MSF BRC is to ride over a 4x4" piece of lumber with the class bikes. It looks impossible, a 4x4 is a BIG chunk of wood. That is, until you try it - standing on the foot pegs, arms relaxed - the bike just does its thing, no problem. This is a skill that dirt bike riders are probably familiar with. Personally, I also find that when I remember to keep my arms a bit more relaxed, elbows bent, hands not clenching the grips, it puts less strain on everything. I don't spend as much effort fighting the bike, and don't get as tired, as quickly. YMMV. -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 30 10:01:00 2004 Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 10:00:54 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: "Daniel H. Brown" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: The ride nearly ended before it began -----Original Message----- From: "Daniel H. Brown" On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > In a message dated 6/29/2004 10:26:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > ericsilberg@XXXXXX writes: > > > I should have seen it early enough > > > > Even seeing the debris when I did, I had plenty of time to react and > > avoid - I just reacted poorly. > > You may not have. > One of the unique problems with bikes evading road debris is the need to > counter steer to initiate a swerve. The result is your contact patch moves _into_ > the object you are trying to avoid before moving back in the direction of the > swerve delaying the movement of the very thing you need to miss the debris > with, your tire. As a result we really need clear vision of the road surface > farther ahead then a cage. My thought, on reading the first post - a bit of a "relaxed" riding position - elbows and knees bent, acting as "shock absorbers" will help too, likely. That allows the bike to react to the road, without slamming the rider around, helping the rider keep control over the bike. One of the exercises from the MSF BRC is to ride over a 4x4" piece of lumber with the class bikes. It looks impossible, a 4x4 is a BIG chunk of wood. That is, until you try it - standing on the foot pegs, arms relaxed - the bike just does its thing, no problem. This is a skill that dirt bike riders are probably familiar with. Personally, I also find that when I remember to keep my arms a bit more relaxed, elbows bent, hands not clenching the grips, it puts less strain on everything. I don't spend as much effort fighting the bike, and don't get as tired, as quickly. ------------- Just to clarify, there are three and only three ways for dealing with obstacles: going over, going around, or stopping short. Note that "laying it down to avoid an accident" is not one of those. :) As for the 4x4 (nominal lumber size, it's really only 3.5" tall) yes, get off the seat. We also coach the students to approach at 90 degrees, roll on slightly before contact, then roll off. That lightens the front, then the rear in rapid succession. Relaxed riding posture is always good. For one thing it prevents over-correction when things get a bit hairy. If the front wheel wobbles a bit after hitting something hard (like the brick I once hit at about 50 mph), let it wobble. It'll sort itself out. Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 30 10:06:10 2004 Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 10:05:53 -0400 From: Brian Roach To: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Crazy for Pictures ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: > Nice pics. I'm am amateur photo nut myself but, I use digital. ;-) So does she ;) All the pics you see were shot on the new Canon EOS Rebel Digital with a f/4-5.6 300mm zoom lens. It's basically a slightly cheaper version of the EOS 10D, and this was the very first time she's used it. I'm pretty impressed so far with the camera and its features, the resolution and clarity are amazing (6.2 megapixel). She could really use a better lens on the thing, I'm keeping an eye on eBay :) - Roach -- http://www.speedwerks.com The one-stop shop for all your motorcycling needs! (302) 672 - 7223 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 30 10:31:19 2004 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: The ride nearly ended before it began Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 10:19:44 -0400 I thought this exercise wasn't part of the class anymore? I didn't get to do it ~5.5 yrs ago. >From: Paul Wilson >Reply-To: Paul Wilson >To: "Daniel H. Brown" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: The ride nearly ended before it began >Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 10:00:54 -0400 (GMT-04:00) > >As for the 4x4 (nominal lumber size, it's really only 3.5" tall) yes, get >off the seat. We also coach the students to approach at 90 degrees, roll >on slightly before contact, then roll off. That lightens the front, then >the rear in rapid succession. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page )B– FREE download! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 30 10:41:53 2004 Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 10:41:48 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: rich hall , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: The ride nearly ended before it began -----Original Message----- From: rich hall I thought this exercise wasn't part of the class anymore? I didn't get to do it ~5.5 yrs ago. >From: Paul Wilson > >As for the 4x4 (nominal lumber size, it's really only 3.5" tall) yes, get >off the seat. We also coach.... ---- It's part of the MSF's Basic RiderCourse, which is now in its third season in Virginia. Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 30 10:54:42 2004 Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 10:59:06 -0400 To: Brian Roach , ScooterFZR@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Crazy for Pictures Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 10:05 AM 6/30/04 -0400, Brian Roach wrote: >ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: > >> Nice pics. I'm am amateur photo nut myself but, I use digital. ;-) > >So does she ;) She said it was a 35mm...I guess she really meant "SLR". If I remember correctly what the camera store person said when I looked at the EOS, it's actually something other (smaller) than 35mm at the focal plane, so the "standard" lens isn't 50mm like with a 35mm camera. They share a body style, so it's easy to confuse the two types of camera just from looking at them, but important to keep the differences in mind when using them. The EOS line looks good...I've been considering getting one myself, though not for sports photography. I've had a Canon A-1 since about '78, and loved it, but film has gotten very expensive over the years, and it's a hassle getting it developed. I've got a Nikon Coolpix 950 that works remarkably well, especially for the macro shots I got it for, but it's not really ideal for creative shooting. The EOS digital line looks really good. > f/4-5.6 300mm zoom lens. It's basically a slightly cheaper version of >the EOS 10D, and this was the very first time she's used it. I'm pretty >impressed so far with the camera and its features, the resolution and If that was her first time out with it, go ahead and be impressed with her too! Most of those shots were really good! -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 30 10:55:43 2004 From: Kirk Roy To: Subject: Re: Alter Ego questions Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 10:55:36 -0400 I don't know about after warranty replacements but I do know they'll definitely exchange something marketed as waterproof under warranty if you tell them it leaks. I sent back a hard drive jacket for just that reason and they replaced it without any problems. Kirk > From: dan > Date: 2004/06/30 Wed AM 09:36:56 EDT > To: "De Boeser, Tom" > CC: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" > Subject: Re: Alter Ego questions > > On Wed, 30 Jun 2004, De Boeser, Tom wrote: > > > Hi, > > I've got a Joe Rocket Meteor 3.0 jacket that has started to leak > > during rain storms. The jacket has been water tight and for the money, > > Send it back to JR. From what I hear they have great > customer service and will replace any defective items well > past their warranty period. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 30 11:47:28 2004 Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 11:47:12 -0400 From: "Gwen Dade" Subject: Re: Crazy for Pictures To: "DC Cycles" X-AOL-IP: 68.98.185.162 Laura, Without the pompous permission to do so, I'm very impressed with your pictures -- they're really great and you get the feel of your subject. I might have to look into that camera myself, since I'm a bit of a photography nut myself. Thanks for sharing! Gwen Laura Roach wrote on 6/29/2004, 11:45 PM: > Hey kids! > > As many of you know, I am a crazy picture taker. Last week, my wonderful > husband surprised me with a 35mm SLR, and wow, did it make a difference > in my picture taking. I've been taking photos of racing for the past > three years, and I've decided to try my hand at the world of sports > photography. > > I'm starting small, with mostly just USGPRU events, and I've posted the > pictures I took at VIR last weekend. I've built a Web site, and took > over 300 photos of just the 125 and 250 practices and races. Take a peek > and let me know what you think. > > http://laura.dcc-racing.org/LARRacePhotography/index.htm > > Laura > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 30 12:05:31 2004 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 12:05:18 EDT Subject: Re: Crazy for Pictures To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I'm not that hi-tech. I've got a Nikon CoolPix 995. I think it's only around 4 megapixels but, it does a great job. Not professional grade but, good enough for me. :-) The thing I like about it is that the lense swivels so you can still see the display even while taking pics overhead. Works great when you're in a crowd. Anyway, keep up the good work with those pics. I'm sure there are plenty of people on this list who will be happy to critique them for you. ;-) Scooter In a message dated 6/30/2004 10:06:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time, roach@XXXXXX writes: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: > Nice pics. I'm am amateur photo nut myself but, I use digital. ;-) So does she ;) All the pics you see were shot on the new Canon EOS Rebel Digital with a f/4-5.6 300mm zoom lens. It's basically a slightly cheaper version of the EOS 10D, and this was the very first time she's used it. I'm pretty impressed so far with the camera and its features, the resolution and clarity are amazing (6.2 megapixel). She could really use a better lens on the thing, I'm keeping an eye on eBay :) - Roach -- http://www.speedwerks.com The one-stop shop for all your motorcycling needs! (302) 672 - 7223 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 30 14:27:30 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 14:27:14 EDT Subject: Re: The ride nearly ended before it began To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/30/2004 9:51:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time, brown@XXXXXX writes: > to ride over a 4x4" piece of > lumber with the class bikes. It looks impossible, > This is a skill that dirt bike > riders are probably familiar with. > What a good trials rider can ride over would boggle your mind. If you ever get a chance to see a trials demo by all means do so. While I am not now or never have been a particularly good trials rider there was a time when we used to lay 55gal. drums out in back of the shop and ride our dirt bikes over them. It can be done. > Personally, I also find that when I remember to keep my arms a bit more > relaxed, elbows bent, hands not clenching the grips, it puts less strain on > everything. I don't spend as much effort fighting the bike, and don't get > as tired, as quickly. Ahhh Grasshopper you have learned a great truth. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC 1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European 1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles 1976, Honda CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 30 14:40:24 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 14:40:09 EDT Subject: Re: Crazy for Pictures To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/30/2004 10:55:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time, omni@XXXXXX writes: > If that was her first time out with it, go ahead and be impressed with her > too! Most of those shots were really good! I am. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 30 14:49:19 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 14:49:01 EDT Subject: Re: The ride nearly ended before it began To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/30/2004 10:31:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time, richallmc@XXXXXX writes: > I thought this exercise wasn't part of the class anymore? I didn't get to > do it ~5.5 yrs ago. It was an optional exercise in the old MRC-RSS and as such rarely used. I had the good fortune to teach at a range that had the time to ride all of the optional exercises including the 4by4 cross, the U-turn box (smaller then the one currently being used in the BRC,) and the "flaming spiral of death" an ever tightening spiral turn, great fun to do one and all. (And _huge_ confidence builders!) John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 30 14:59:34 2004 From: Lister Lynch To: "'Tom Gimer '" , "'Glenn Dysart '" , "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX '" Subject: RE: Hatfield McCoy trips? Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 15:01:41 -0400 The trip out was 7 hours from door to door. We left 4PM Wednesday afternoon (the motel office was already closed and we had to roust the owner when we got there), rode Thur, Fri, Sat, back on Sunday. It'd be extremely hard on the driver to drive back on the same day as riding. Staying in or around Man is best, as it's close to both of the best trailheads. Once out there, you'd quickly realize that 2 days of riding would be the minimum. WV just passed a new law that allows you to ride dirt bikes and quads within 25 miles of a trailhead! In Pep Boys this morning, they're selling a "Pantera" street legal 125cc dirtbike for $999. Helluva deal. Mike -----Original Message----- From: Tom Gimer To: Glenn Dysart; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Sent: 6/30/2004 9:05 AM Subject: Re: Hatfield McCoy trips? cool. i think it's been 7 years since an organized overnight dc-cycles trip has taken off. as i know nothing about the trail system, i'll leave the planning to others. --- Glenn Dysart wrote: > DC Cycles to Hatfield McCoy? I'm game. > > Glenn > > --- Tom Gimer wrote: > > if it's worth it, then let's plan an overnighter.... > > > > > > --- Glenn Dysart wrote: > > > A place I've been wanting to go... You'd be real > > hard > > > pressed to make a day trip out of it considering > > its > > > close to Charleston, WV. Mapquest shows it just > > shy > > > of 380 miles from my house. > > > > > > Glenn > > > > > > --- Tom Gimer wrote: > > > > how about a weekday trip? > > > > > > > > -- > > > > tg (also w/ xr400) > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Lister Lynch wrote: > > > > > Just came back from my second trip to the > > Hatfield > > > > McCoy > > > > > trail system in WV > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 30 15:01:44 2004 Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 12:01:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: RE: Hatfield McCoy trips? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Ahh so civilized... Glenn --- Lister Lynch wrote: > WV just passed a new law that allows you to ride > dirt bikes and quads within > 25 miles of a trailhead! __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 30 15:14:32 2004 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: WTB - Sportser 1200 Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 15:02:41 -0400 Pops is looking to get back into the game after about a 25 yr break. He wants a Sportster 1200. Does anyone have any leads? I've pointed out The Post, cycletrader, Ebay, & Craigslist to him. Any suggestions on how to get him into the ERC? I think I'm going to take it again this fall. My 3 yr insurance discount will be up. then I'll probably be able to get him to take it with me. The discount on insurance perked his ears more than the refresher idea. I also don't think he'll wear a lot of gear. Pretty sure he's a fan of no helmet. He rode in back in the late 70s. I know he went down 3 times then. I think it was 2 times due to gravel and once due to someone turning in front of him. He has no visible scars or damage from any of them. My little brother who's 19 wants a bike, I feel I can tell him to wear gear. I don't feel I can tell my father what to do. I do think being able to ride with him will be incredible and look forward to that. Thanks, Rich '02 SVS _________________________________________________________________ From )B‘will you?’ to ‘I do,’ MSN Life Events is your resource for Getting Married. http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=married From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 30 15:23:06 2004 Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 15:27:01 -0400 To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: The ride nearly ended before it began At 02:27 PM 6/30/04 EDT, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: >What a good trials rider can ride over would boggle your mind. If you ever >get a chance to see a trials demo by all means do so. Yeah, like a 5' boulder, a U-haul truck, or a person lying down...without touching them There was a demo by a top trials rider on Two Wheel Tuesday a few months ago. Check the web site and see if they are going to re-run that. There was also one show where the host signed up with the same guy to take a class in it, so you could see the pros do it, and what a good beginner could manage. Of course, a trials bike bears little or no resemblance to a street bike...beyond having two wheels and handlebars... :-) -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 30 15:27:58 2004 Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 12:27:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Ray Subject: Re: WTB - Sportser 1200 To: DC Cycles Rich - I don't know if you followed the new bike info, but the sportsters are newly redesigned for this year, with supposedly huge improvements. Less vibration and whatnot. You might want (him) to test both the new and old models, and see if it's worth it to look for an '04. Brian --- rich hall wrote: > Pops is looking to get back into the game after > about a 25 yr break. He > wants a Sportster 1200. Does anyone have any leads? > I've pointed out The > Post, cycletrader, Ebay, & Craigslist to him. > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 30 15:32:04 2004 Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 15:31:51 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: rich hall , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: WTB - Sportser 1200 -----Original Message----- From: rich hall Pops is looking to get back into the game after about a 25 yr break. .... Any suggestions on how to get him into the ERC? I think I'm going to take it again this fall. ----- Go the NVCC web site and sign up, maybe? :-) It's kind of a pain because both of you will have to set yourselves up as "students" in the system and there are many, many screens to navigate. Or you could go see Bob McKeithen out in West Va., which might be better. ----- I also don't think he'll wear a lot of gear. Pretty sure he's a fan of no helmet. ----- Well, the Commonwealth takes that "choice" away.... ----- I don't feel I can tell my father what to do. ----- Why not? I tell mine what to do all the time, not that he listens.... ----- I do think being able to ride with him will be incredible and look forward to that. ----- For sure, but I can only imagine. Mine would rather have root canal than even sit on a motorcycle. :) Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [Dirt-tour] From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 30 15:35:28 2004 Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 15:40:08 -0400 To: Brian Ray , DC Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: WTB - Sportser 1200 At 12:27 PM 6/30/04 -0700, Brian Ray wrote: >Rich - > >I don't know if you followed the new bike info, but >the sportsters are newly redesigned for this year, >with supposedly huge improvements. They rubber-mounted the engines for one thing, as well as redesigning the frames. Lots of variation in options too. Reviews I've read and seen on TV say they are *much* improved in terms of ride comfort and handling. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 30 15:35:30 2004 Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 15:38:02 -0400 To: "rich hall" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: WTB - Sportser 1200 At 03:02 PM 6/30/04 -0400, rich hall wrote: >Any suggestions on how to get him into the ERC? The Montgomery County H.O.G.s run an ERC course every year just for members. Other chapters may do the same. If he has a Sportster, he's eligible for H.O.G.. If he buys it new from Battleys, they throw in a year's membership in both national and local H.O.G. chapters as part of the purchase. They may do that for used bikes too...I dunno. BTW, Battley's has a used bike operation now too. They sell bikes on consignment. What's available changes all the time, but you might want to check there to see if they have a Sportie, and what it would cost. > I think I'm going to take >it again this fall. My 3 yr insurance discount will be up. then I'll >probably be able to get him to take it with me. The discount on insurance >perked his ears more than the refresher idea. My insurance company (USAA) doesn't offer a discount for safety classes in Maryland. Others do I hear. On the other hand, the course only cost me $5. It was $55 up front, but Harley will send you a coupon for $50 in "Harley Bucks" if you pass. It's good for stuff at the dealership, maintenance visits, or for H.O.G. membership renewal. Mine came yesterday, along with a pin and a patch...no charge from Harley. >My little brother who's 19 wants a bike, I feel I can tell him to wear gear. > I don't feel I can tell my father what to do. You can tell him, but whether he listens may depend on how you do it. The "we will worry about you if you don't" method may work...but you know your dad best. Have fun! -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 30 17:40:00 2004 From: "Michael Jordan" To: Subject: RE: Crazy for Pictures Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 17:39:46 -0400 > Hey kids! > > As many of you know, I am a crazy picture taker. Last week, > my wonderful husband surprised me with a 35mm SLR, and wow, > did it make a difference in my picture taking. I've been > taking photos of racing for the past three years, and I've > decided to try my hand at the world of sports photography. > > I'm starting small, with mostly just USGPRU events, and I've > posted the pictures I took at VIR last weekend. I've built a > Web site, and took over 300 photos of just the 125 and 250 > practices and races. Take a peek and let me know what you think. > > http://laura.dcc-racing.org/LARRacePhotography/index.htm > > Laura Nice stuff - Laura. You might want to check out some of Sean's work on my smugmug site - www.fratellibrothers.com He's been shooting a bunch of WERA stuff Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 30 18:17:37 2004 From: Lister Lynch To: "'PenguinBiker@XXXXXX '" , "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX '" Subject: RE: Hatfield McCoy trips? Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 18:19:44 -0400 We had a KX250 in our group that had a little trouble over the technical stuff. At low RPMs there's no power to chug over the obstacle, and at high RPMs it's a binary power delivery that'll just loop ya. On one hill climb wreck on the single track, he ripped the spark arrester off. He had fun ;-) Mike - zipties to the rescue -----Original Message----- From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Sent: 6/30/2004 9:24 AM Subject: Re: Hatfield McCoy trips? In a message dated 6/30/2004 9:05:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time, t_gimer@XXXXXX writes: > cool. i think it's been 7 years since an organized > overnight dc-cycles trip has taken off. Oh lordy I wanna go. First I would have to find some Avgas for the CR and then start it, BUT... John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC 1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European 1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles 1976, Honda CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 30 18:27:25 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 18:27:11 EDT Subject: Re: The ride nearly ended before it began To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/30/2004 3:23:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time, omni@XXXXXX writes: > Of course, a trials bike bears little or no resemblance to a street > bike...beyond having two wheels and handlebars... :-) Well yes and no, the physics of it are the same, the controls work the same way, it is just a different kind of bike. (If I had the time and $$ trials is the kind of competition riding I would love to get into.) One of the many bikes I would love to have is a Honda TLR200 a street/trials bike sold for just a couple of years. _That_ would be a fun bike to ride, and it _is_ a street bike! BTW Crossing obstacles uses the same technique on a street bike or a trials bike. Once upon a time I was talking about this very thing with a young woman, telling her that the same technique she used on a dirt bike (she rode em) would work on a street bike. A short time later she was riding her Harley and noticed a cloud of dust behind a truck ahead of her. She stood, moved back and WHAM! WHAM! Rode over two cinder blocks laying in the road. She did _not_ fall, pulled off to the side of the road and checked. She had broken _both_ wheels, but using the proper obstacle crossing technique she had learned on dirt bikes she managed to stay upright. That is the reason MSF has put obstacle crossing back into the BRC. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC 1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European 1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles 1976, Honda CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jun 30 19:01:08 2004 Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 19:05:49 -0400 To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: The ride nearly ended before it began At 06:27 PM 6/30/04 EDT, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: >In a message dated 6/30/2004 3:23:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >omni@XXXXXX writes: > >> Of course, a trials bike bears little or no resemblance to a street >> bike...beyond having two wheels and handlebars... :-) > >Well yes and no, the physics of it are the same, the controls work the same >way, it is just a different kind of bike. Yeah, one with no seat, a really springy suspension (for "bunny hops"), very low gearing, very low center of gravity, low weight, and some other differences. Physics is the same, but which aspects of physics are most important in the design are very different from a street bike. The way you ride it is very different too...standing up the entire time for instance, with knees bent mostly. At least, that's the sort of thing the champion trials rider that was instructing and doing demos on those shows I saw said. I've never actually ridden one, or even seen one close up, myself. >One of the many bikes I would love to have is a Honda TLR200 a street/trials >bike sold for just a couple of years. _That_ would be a fun bike to ride, and >it _is_ a street bike! Sort of like a "sport/tourer"? A compromise that can do both, but not quite as well as one purpose-built for either use? My old Yamaha XT-550 was like that...not quite as dirt-bike as a dirt-bike, and not really all that great for street use, but legal. It leaned heavily toward the dirt-bike side of things though, and coped just fine for the sort of trail riding I used it for sometimes. For motocross it wouldn't have been at all ideal. ;-) >A short time later she was riding her Harley and noticed a cloud of dust >behind a truck ahead of her. She stood, moved back and WHAM! WHAM! Rode over two >cinder blocks laying in the road. She did _not_ fall, pulled off to the side of >the road and checked. She had broken _both_ wheels, but using the proper >obstacle crossing technique she had learned on dirt bikes she managed to stay >upright. Good for her! The police model Harleys are designed to jump curbs (tires have extra-stiff sidewalls for instance), but probably not at highway speed...and a cinder block is a bit taller than that. Normal Harleys aren't really intended to cope even with curbs. >That is the reason MSF has put obstacle crossing back into the BRC. Heck, I've seen speedbumps that almost require that technique... -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better.