From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 09:13:15 1997 Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 09:10 -0400 (EDT) From: "Todd B Peer" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Help! 2 questions. X-Mailer: MailRoom v2.1e >1) I took the MSF course this weekend. I did not pass. What I got instead was >a LOT of experience picking up a Rebel. (It's actually fairly easy, but then >it was a 250.) Instructors said that I had good potential, and felt my >problems were: > a) being 4'11" and having a hard time reaching the controls > b) no experience on a bicycle - ie I didn't have that balance thing going > c) the Rebel is a tough bike to learn on > >So here's the problem. I bought a '96 Shadow 600. She's georgous. She's >showroom. She's heavy as a water buffalo. Even with a lowering package and >bent-back handlebars (not yet installed), is it reasonable for me to start on >her? No. By what you've said previous to your question of being reasonable, the answer must be no. Sorry, I empathize and understand your dilemma. If there is a way for you to keep the bike, and learn on something lighter and less a worry to drop now and then, do it. Squeakers wrote: I personally think that if the rebel 250 was difficult to begin with, then the Shadow 600 will be EXTREMELY difficult. Agreed I started out on a Sporty. When I ordered the bike, I signed up for the MSF classes. They didnt have ANY bikes for us vertically challenged folks at that time, so I had to learn on a bike that kept me up on my toes. Luckily, I passed. 'course, then I got on the Sporty and promptly dropped it. Then I got on it again. And dropped it again. A heavy bike was just too much for me to learn on. Agreed again. However, you will probably agree that now that you've got some miles, the heaviness is a secondary concern to once it was primary. You have to remember, that since you arent used to riding ANYTHING, you not only have to get the feel of "balance", but ALSO of using throttle thingys and clutch thingys and the weight of a bike all at once. And "leaning" and "looking kewl" etcetcetc.... We went looking around, and found me a used (i.e. cheap) rebel 250 to practice on. Im only 5 feet flat, and not the most muscle bound woman on earth, had never ridden or driven anything that wasnt equipped with "automatic" and hadnt ridden a bicycle in... I dont care to discuss how many years. After trying out a few different bikes, and talking to a LOT of OTHER height challenged women, I learned that, in actuality, the Rebel 250 is the easiest of all the bikes to learn on. Its light, very low and handles very easily. The Savage 450 also got alot of high marks, but that was mostly for women that were a tad over 5 feet. You really do need to be able to master and feel comfortable on a smaller bike like the Rebel BEFORE you try riding a bigger, heavier bike that could easily overpower you. You need to keep up the determined attitude to accomplish everything you have a desire to do. But with riding, we also have to balance determination with safety. An accident on a bike can be, and unfortunately often is.... catastrophic. Take it easy. Start slow. Work up. I figure if *I* can do it, then anyone can! :) I cant stress enough my opinion on this. If the bike is too big and heavy to feel comfortable on, and you're JUST learning, then please please please consider a smaller used bike. Life's too short to shorten it even more. Well. You know what they say about opinions. :) Yes we do. And I agree with your points exactly. FYI, I am 5'-8" w/a 30" inseam. I have over 10 years and 75,000 miles experience. My first real road bike was an '83 500 Shadow which I still have. It's not in the best shape anymore, but she's an old love I can't seem to give up :-) My next real road bike purchase was a '92 CB750 Nitehawk. Because of its greater weight (than the 500), it was intimidating to me. After about a month though I was acclimated to it and discovered the joy of motorcycling again as if I'd never been riding! Such a strange phenomena. Just recently I purchased a 700lb ST1100 that has a 32" saddle height and I can tell you that even with the experience, I was even more intimidated by this bike than the 750. If not for my sense of balance developed over time on other 'lighter' motorcycles, I surely would have gotten a LOT of experience picking up an ST shortly after buying it. But, again after about a month of riding this bike, that big Sh**-eating grin that comes with re-opening the doors of new experience was/is pasted square on my face. This is not a woman/man thing. It is a practice thing and it is a learning thing that never ends. As long as you have the bug and you take the time to understand this sport, you will progress over and over again. Good luck Sharon. Todd PS. I walked over to my 500 the other day to move it around in the garage. There was a time that I considered this bike "heavy as a water buffalo" too. The thought that came to mind while moving it was "it's such a toy, so light". Well, with time our perspectives change to, eh? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 09:49:00 1997 X-Mailer: ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.00 Date: Tue, 01 Jul 97 09:25:51 -0800 From: "Joe Snider" To: Subject: FS: 1980 Yamaha 400 Special MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1980 Yamaha XS400SG "Special" - 12,500 miles, new rear tire, new chain, new rear brakes, new plugs. Good condition, runs well. Includes cover, and possibly saddle bags if I can be talked into it. I am selling for a variety of personal reasons, not because I want to part with the bike. The only major problem is the electric starter does not work well, but it has a kick start which has been perfectly fine for me. Supposedly it is the brushes, which Crossroads Cycles quoted me about $230 to replace. Also included in the package is the Haynes manual which shows how to do this. Joe Snider joe_snider@XXXXXX h: 703-920-6347 w: 703-873-2916 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 10:08:25 1997 X-Mailer: ccMail Link to SMTP R6.00.02 Date: Tue, 01 Jul 97 10:07:38 -0500 From: "Mehran Firouzbakht" To: , , , , Subject: Re[2]: Help! 2 questions. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My wife took the MSF course and she dropped the rebel 3 times in one day. She did although catch on and finally pass the course with flying colors. She is only 5' tall. The first bike I ever bought her was a Suzuki GS850. It was low enough for her to handle. Her first time on the bike, she drove it all the way to Ocean City, Nonstop. She never once dropped her bike. Six months later she finally fessed up and admitted that the bike was too heavy to pull in and out of tight spots. So I bought her a 250 Ninja. She loves the fact that she can move it around so easily. My point is that if you practice long enough and don't let the bike intimidate you, any old bike can make you wanna fly as long as you can keep your feet on the ground or atleast touch the ground. PS. We've moved our bikes inside of a van before and all we used were normal tie downs. The van was equipped with holes and spots to use those tie downs though. We put a piece of plywood and a mattress between the bikes to prevent any damage. >1) I took the MSF course this weekend. I did not pass. What I got instead was >a LOT of experience picking up a Rebel. (It's actually fairly easy, but then >it was a 250.) Instructors said that I had good potential, and felt my >problems were: > a) being 4'11" and having a hard time reaching the controls > b) no experience on a bicycle - ie I didn't have that balance thing going > c) the Rebel is a tough bike to learn on > >So here's the problem. I bought a '96 Shadow 600. She's georgous. She's >showroom. She's heavy as a water buffalo. Even with a lowering package and >bent-back handlebars (not yet installed), is it reasonable for me to start on >her? Or do I need to give her up and get a smaller junk bike to learn on? >Finances will probably not allow keeping her and buying another. > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 10:37:13 1997 Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 10:35:54 -0700 From: Bill Schmidt X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Barbelle14@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Help! 2 questions. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mehran Firouzbakht wrote: > > PS. We've moved our bikes inside of a van before and all we used were > normal tie downs. The van was equipped with holes and spots to use > those tie downs though. We put a piece of plywood and a mattress > between the bikes to prevent any damage. > One additional suggestion is to make sure that you fasten the tie downs tight enough to compress the suspension part way to keep the bike(s) from walking. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 10:46:34 1997 Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 10:20:05 -0400 X-Sender: squeaks@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Todd B Peer" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Squeakers Subject: Re: Help! 2 questions. >I started out on a Sporty. >When I ordered the bike, I signed up for the MSF classes. They didnt have >ANY bikes for us vertically challenged folks at that time, so I had to learn >on a bike that kept me up on my toes. Luckily, I passed. 'course, then I got >on the Sporty and promptly dropped it. Then I got on it again. And dropped >it again. A heavy bike was just too much for me to learn on. > > Agreed again. However, you will probably agree that now that > you've got some miles, the heaviness is a secondary concern to > once it was primary. > Yup! :) I can ride the Sporty now with NO problems. I just needed a year of riding the little bike to get the feel of riding, and all the mechanics down to where I dont have to conciously think... "clutch in" "brakes on the right foot" "gears on the left foot" "lean into this turn" etcetc. The only part that I still have to adjust to is putting the bike down on the kickstand. The little Rebel is so light I can just kick the stand down and practically throw the bike down on it. Not so with the Sporty. NOT...SO..... :) Squeakers From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 11:14:54 1997 X-Sender: cnorloff@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 11:09:45 -0400 To: Barbelle14@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Chris Norloff Subject: Re: Help! 2 questions. In-Reply-To: <970630214437_-1696335759@emout16.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >1) I took the MSF course this weekend. I did not pass. What I got instead was >a LOT of experience picking up a Rebel. (It's actually fairly easy, but then >it was a 250.) Instructors said that I had good potential, and felt my >problems were: > a) being 4'11" and having a hard time reaching the controls A fellow instructor was about that height, and she had no problem. Be sure the rear springs are adjusted so the bike sits as low as it goes. Be sure the handlebars and the hand levers are adjusted for your arms. > b) no experience on a bicycle - ie I didn't have that balance thing going None? If you can't balance a bicycle easily and comfortably, then I wouldn't even try to teach you how to ride a motorcycle. Balancing a two-wheeler must be second-nature before you can take on the added complexities of operating controls with both feet & both hands, and watching for road hazards, and watching to other traffic, and choosing your route. > c) the Rebel is a tough bike to learn on Nonsense. I taught hundreds of students over 8 years of teaching in Maryland, on Rebels. They're fine bikes. >So here's the problem. I bought a '96 Shadow 600. She's georgous. She's >showroom. She's heavy as a water buffalo. Even with a lowering package and >bent-back handlebars (not yet installed), is it reasonable for me to start on >her? Or do I need to give her up and get a smaller junk bike to learn on? Pass that MSF course. Use their bike to drop. If you can't control a 300-lb. 250cc bike, you will be unable to control a 450-lb (or whatever) 600cc bike. > SBL theory says if you want it badly enough you can do it - and I am >*not* the quitting type. But I feel that given my height and (lack of) >experience I need to be realistic about this. Practice on a bicycle until you have two-wheel balance down pat. Take the MSF course again. Tell the instructor(s) about your concern, and ask that they adjust the rear springs, handlebars, and hand levers for YOU. It's easy, and takes only a couple minutes. 99% of the instructors I taught with and who worked for me would go out of their way to help a student who needs extra help and who specifically asks for something (like adjusting the bike). >2) We are moving to Pheonix (look for mail, Sian!) from Wash. DC. We need a >van for furniture, plus have two cars and two bikes (his Ninja and my >Shadow). I am not capable of riding a bike crosscountry *yet*. How the hell >do we get everything there? Is there a way to lock down the bikes within the >moving van? Then we could tow one car behind the van (him driving) and I'll >drive the other car. If so, how do you keep stuff from falling on the bikes >inside? Tow one car with the truck (get a dolly so the car rolls on the un-driven wheels). Drive the other car. Tow the bikes in a trailer behind the car, or rent a bigger truck and tie the bikes inside the truck. Rental trucks have tie-down rails on both sides of the cargo area. Pack securely, pad everything (get twice as many furniture pads as you think you'll need). I just tied my bike inside the back of the truck (just inside the rear door) and then put stuff on each side of it. Did great. Chris Norloff From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 11:59:37 1997 From: Amit Chatterjie To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" Subject: RE: Help! 2 questions. Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 11:58:52 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) > ---------- > From: Barbelle14@XXXXXX[SMTP:Barbelle14@XXXXXX] > Sent: Monday, June 30, 1997 9:44 PM > To: wist@XXXXXX; sbl@XXXXXX; dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Help! 2 questions. > > Hi! This is Sharon again. I have two dilemmas, and I'm hoping all you > wise > women out there can help! Well... and the short guys on sbl. Oh, and I > guess > *everyone* on DC-Cycles. You're allowed. :-) > As a man with 27yrs riding in 4 continents I may not qualify for your selection criteria but I'll go ahead anyway. Presumptious right? Right. I think everyone has answered question 2 sufficiently. As for question 1, I started out on a moped. I learnt 2 important things. 1) Balance 2) How to crash. I know many people regard crashing as this unknown thing or something they never want to experience. Fact is, there is a high probability it will happen. Fear plays a big factor in hampering your learning curve. So, I would take my moped (once I felt comfortable with it) out on a dust path (or someplace with less traction than a wet road) and try corners practicing skids, slides, somersaults (just kidding), etc. er...proper attire is required. I practiced crashing with rolls, slides. This built up my confidence so that when a crash occured on the road I would not close my eyes and leave it up to fate. My personal feeling is that 80% of injuries by accidents can be reduced or avoided by reducing panic just prior and during an accident. Takes practice. Anyway, back to the subject. My reccomendation is buy a moped & practice till you feel VERY comfortable. It shouldn't cost you much so you should be able to keep your main ride. Then you will be as confident as my friend in Italy who used to ride a Honda CB750 in the 70's. He couldn't reach the ground so he always had to stop at sidewalks. At traffic lights he used to have to get off the bike to hold it! Happy Ridin, Amit CBR1000 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 12:47:44 1997 From: Dark Hacker Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 12:47:25 -0400 (EDT) To: Todd.B.Peer@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Help! 2 questions. My two cents, When I started riding, I decided to buy a motorcycle only AFTER I had convinced myself that riding a motorcycle was something I could do without killing myself and that meant successfully passing the MSF course. My favorite bike in the course was the Nighthawk 250... a nice general purpose training vehicle. After a couple years of riding experience I've discovered that balance, intuition for lean and motion, and the ability to work a bike's controls fluidly and unconciously are all necessary. If you don't have a handle on the balance and motion of riding a bicycle, you probably won't do well on a motorcycle. I've also found that riding isn't about strength and manhandling that 600 lbs of machinery around corners. It actually takes very little strength to manuever a motorcycle. Good riders learn how to make the *bike* do all the work with a minimal amount of input. - Hacker From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 13:40:55 1997 From: FakeTree@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 13:39:35 -0400 (EDT) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Bent Back Handlebars Somehow, I missed the beginning of this thread, but...I noticed that you have some bent back handlebars for your Shadow. My wife is a petite 5'3" and also recently purchased a beautiful 1996 Shadow. She is an experienced rider (learned and rode a Rebel for about a year), but I think she would be more comfortable with bent backs. Can you tell me where you got them? Thanks! JB Haller 1990 Suzuki VX-800 FakeTree@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 14:32:20 1997 X-Mailer: ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.00 Date: Tue, 01 Jul 97 14:16:50 -0800 From: "Joe Snider" To: , Subject: Re[2]: FS: 1980 Yamaha 400 Special MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Whooops. Sorry about that. I am asking $500. Thought I had put that in there. ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: FS: 1980 Yamaha 400 Special Author: at smtpgw Date: 7/1/97 10:22 AM How much??????? ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: FS: 1980 Yamaha 400 Special Author: "Joe Snider" at Internet Date: 7/1/97 9:25 AM 1980 Yamaha XS400SG "Special" - 12,500 miles, new rear tire, new chain, new rear brakes, new plugs. Good condition, runs well. Includes cover, and possibly saddle bags if I can be talked into it. I am selling for a variety of personal reasons, not because I want to part with the bike. The only major problem is the electric starter does not work well, but it has a kick start which has been perfectly fine for me. Supposedly it is the brushes, which Crossroads Cycles quoted me about $230 to replace. Also included in the package is the Haynes manual which shows how to do this. Joe Snider joe_snider@XXXXXX h: 703-920-6347 w: 703-873-2916 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 14:46:25 1997 From: mobacc@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 14:46:12 -0400 X-Sender: mobacc@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: EXTREME prep for newbies (was RE: Help! 2 questions) At 11:58 AM 7/1/97 -0400, Amit Chatterjie wrote: . . . I would take my moped (once I felt comfortable with >it) out on a dust path (or someplace with less traction than a wet road) >and try corners practicing skids, slides, somersaults (just kidding), >etc. er...proper attire is required. I practiced crashing with rolls, >slides. This built up my confidence so that when a crash occured on the >road I would not close my eyes and leave it up to fate. My personal >feeling is that 80% of injuries by accidents can be reduced or avoided >by reducing panic just prior and during an accident. Takes practice. > > Anyway, back to the subject. My reccomendation is buy a moped & >practice till you feel VERY comfortable. It shouldn't cost you much > . . . Yes. Poignant for me. As a mature urban first biker (MSF and more) this spring, am at a 3,000 mile stage where I yearn for a skill-wrenching survival workout. But don't want to put my pretty bike at risk or chance buying bandages. I remember private pilot training stalls and spins. Sports car gymkhanas (lotsa rubber lost). Windsurfing at 35+ knots. But want just the experience to be a prepared MC recreational rider, not the sporting entree. Want to be ready for, then try to avoid, then join and coopt chaos. Instantly. Wide Receiver survival. Have read about some techniques (highside roll, lowside skid, etc.) but want to be coached for and practice them. (Probably a gyrational cut above the experienced rider courses; possibly a racing or MX intro course?) Like outstanding MSF, would like a course that supplies virtually everything, close to DC, and lets me twist and gnaw at my skills and emotions (but not my skin or bike). Suggestions? Or pockmarked moped and crash gear rental anyplace {:>? ***Bill Swanson '96 EN500LTD From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 15:14:18 1997 Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 15:12:27 -0700 From: Bill Schmidt X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mobacc@XXXXXX CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: EXTREME prep for newbies (was RE: Help! 2 questions) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit mobacc@XXXXXX wrote: > coopt chaos. Instantly. Wide Receiver survival. Have read about some > techniques (highside roll, lowside skid, etc.) but want to be coached for > and practice them. I don't think you want to practice the highside! One of the problems I'd guess you'd have with the moped approach and the translation of that experience to the world of big bikes is the lack of power--both go and stop--of the moped. You be better off with a trail bike, decent protective gear, and some open fields for the kind of practice you seem to be seeking. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 16:47:04 1997 Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 15:46:18 -0500 (CDT) From: "Martha E. Moore" To: Squeakers Cc: Barbelle14@XXXXXX, wist@XXXXXX, sbl@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Help! 2 questions. In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19970630223109.39cf42de@pop.erols.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII This is very interesting to me. After a few years as a passenger, I decided to learn to ride myself. I took a motorcycle safety class, and almost didn't pass. I had the same problem--being too short. I'd always been on low-riders and didn't dream that these "little" bikes would be too tall for me! I dropped bikes in class five times, became totally intimidated and at one point I started to cry and wanted to leave. I'm sure I would have left that day, but my boyfriend had dropped me off and I didn't have any way of getting home. I did finish and I did pass, but only barely. The only bike that was low enough for me to feel comfortable with was a 125, and by the time we took the skills test, I decided that was the only bike I could test on if I didn't want to drop my bike during the "evaluation" (which results in failing the course). So, now I'm "stuck" with only a class L license. Of course I can still take the DMV road test on a bigger bike and get a class M, but I'm faced with the problem of gaining experience on a bigger bike without having a valid license. The course did teach me a lot. I'm a better passenger when I ride with my boyfriend because I understand what he's faced with in different situations. I'm a better car driver and a better pedestrian. In my mind I know I can ride a motorcycle if I can find the right bike to start on. I agree with some of the other responses--I'm looking for a smaller bike that is in somewhat "rough" condition to start with. I don't want to freak over the first dent or scratch. All I need is practice and confidence. Luckily, I live less than a mile from the safety course and I can get that practice fairly easily. I've looked at an older Rebel 250, and I thought it might work. I also know what I want down the road--I'm totally in love with the Virago. I sat on a 750 in the showroom and it's the one bike where EVERYTHING feels like it's in the right place. It reminds me of my car, a Geo Metro, which is one of the few cars I've ever driven that seems to "fit" me perfectly. Some of the low-riders have foot pegs that make my knees feel like they're sticking up in the air, including the Rebel 250. By the way, I'm almost 5"3 but my legs are fairly short. I've learned that the 28" seat height is about as tall as I can go. I'm very fit and do weight training, so the weight of the bike is not as much of a concern as the height of the seat. One hesitation I have in buying a small bike to start with is the response I get from more seasoned bikers--they all say "if you buy a small bike you'll outgrow it in a few months, then you'll be sorry you didn't start out bigger." I'd like to hear from anyone who cares to write back about what they chose for a first bike and why, what their experiences were and how long they waited to "move up" to a bigger, more powerful bike. On Mon, 30 Jun 1997, Squeakers wrote: > > >1) I took the MSF course this weekend. I did not pass. What I got instead was > >a LOT of experience picking up a Rebel. (It's actually fairly easy, but then > >it was a 250.) Instructors said that I had good potential, and felt my > >problems were: > > a) being 4'11" and having a hard time reaching the controls > > b) no experience on a bicycle - ie I didn't have that balance thing going > > c) the Rebel is a tough bike to learn on > > > >So here's the problem. I bought a '96 Shadow 600. She's georgous. She's > >showroom. She's heavy as a water buffalo. Even with a lowering package and > >bent-back handlebars (not yet installed), is it reasonable for me to start on > >her? Or do I need to give her up and get a smaller junk bike to learn on? > >Finances will probably not allow keeping her and buying another. > > > > I personally think that if the rebel 250 was difficult to begin with, > then the Shadow 600 will be EXTREMELY difficult. I started out on a Sporty. > When I ordered the bike, I signed up for the MSF classes. They didnt have > ANY bikes for us vertically challenged folks at that time, so I had to learn > on a bike that kept me up on my toes. Luckily, I passed. 'course, then I got > on the Sporty and promptly dropped it. Then I got on it again. And dropped > it again. A heavy bike was just too much for me to learn on. You have to > remember, that since you arent used to riding ANYTHING, you not only have to > get the feel of "balance", but ALSO of using throttle thingys and clutch > thingys and the weight of a bike all at once. And "leaning" and "looking > kewl" etcetcetc.... We went looking around, and found me a used (i.e. cheap) > rebel 250 to practice on. Im only 5 feet flat, and not the most muscle bound > woman on earth, had never ridden or driven anything that wasnt equipped with > "automatic" and hadnt ridden a bicycle in... I dont care to discuss how many > years. After trying out a few different bikes, and talking to a LOT of OTHER > height challenged women, I learned that, in actuality, the Rebel 250 is the > easiest of all the bikes to learn on. Its light, very low and handles very > easily. The Savage 450 also got alot of high marks, but that was mostly for > women that were a tad over 5 feet. You really do need to be able to master > and feel comfortable on a smaller bike like the Rebel BEFORE you try riding > a bigger, heavier bike that could easily overpower you. You need to keep up > the determined attitude to accomplish everything you have a desire to do. > But with riding, we also have to balance determination with safety. An > accident on a bike can be, and unfortunately often is.... catastrophic. Take > it easy. Start slow. Work up. I figure if *I* can do it, then anyone can! :) > > I cant stress enough my opinion on this. If the bike is too big and heavy > to feel comfortable on, and you're JUST learning, then please please please > consider a smaller used bike. Life's too short to shorten it even more. > > Well. You know what they say about opinions. :) > > Squeakers > > > Martha E. Moore From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 16:55:33 1997 X-Ms-Tnef-Correlator: From: "Jordan, Michael" To: "mobacc@XXXXXX" , "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: RE: EXTREME prep for newbies (was RE: Help! 2 questions) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 12:00:42 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 Encoding: 17 TEXT, 45 UUENCODE X-Ms-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00 >Like outstanding MSF, would like a course that supplies virtually everything, close to DC, and lets me twist and gnaw at my skills and emotions (but not my skin or bike). Suggestions? Or pockmarked moped and crash gear rental anyplace {:>?< Bill - check out the MSF advanced course - not high speed stuff, but will put you through some interesting exercises on your own scoot. Michael Jordan '86 SRX-6 '93 GSX 1100GP AMA IBA etc. begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(A(3`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0F `0`A````1#DX,$4R M,T9&,T8Q1# Q,3DQ1C0P,# P1C8S0D-"1#8`+P"Q-1AKP!'@!P``$````Y````4D4Z($585%)%344@ M<')E<"!F;W(@;F5W8FEE,C)E!&!T:0(@!" H8GD7,"!N%G AM0.@!;%B&1;A*2X>[Q8I M4W5G5F<'D"+3/QE03P7 <.AO8VL`P'(6\!Y0!&".<"@A'C(%`&%S:"$POF4* MP0EP`C '0!XA>0M1@F,7`%Q[.CX_)-PN/ JB"H0*@$(B$2 M]1J@: 60:Q<2 M&Q$7`!?A^1J 9'8`<"IP*-$:Q"SPZR."'0!G*3!S*' H(1=0OG4!(!@0(T(# M\"S!<"-1_GD(8!L1`V FH"_!`W 7`)\+@!: "7 FX1>Q97@$D#YC! `'D0(@ M,7(%P&]WNP.@!/!O%G DP"OY30W@U1! 90,@2@6P9 !P*^0()S@V!@!26"TV M`3:U.3,@1U-8("(Q%2 P1U KY$%-LD$KY$E".640@&,U!A<6&2OJ$3$`/, ` M```#`( 0_____PL``X (( 8``````, ```````!&``````.%`````/__`P`% M@ @@!@``````P ```````$8`````$(4````````#``" "" &``````# ```` M````1@````!2A0``MPT``!X``8 (( 8``````, ```````!&`````%2%```! M````! ```#@N, `#``* "" &``````# ````````1@`````!A0````````L` M!( (( 8``````, ```````!&``````Z%`````````P`&@ @@!@``````P `` M`````$8`````$84````````#``> "" &``````# ````````1@`````8A0`` M`````!X`"( (( 8``````, ```````!&`````#:%```!`````0`````````> M``F "" &``````# ````````1@`````WA0```0````$`````````'@`*@ @@ M!@``````P ```````$8`````.(4```$````!``````````,`)@```````P`V M```````"`?D_`0```!X`````````W*= R,!"$!JTN0@`*R_A@@$````````` M+@```!X`^#\!````%0```%-YCFY1AKP!`P`--/T_```"`10T`0```! ```!4E*' *7\0&Z6'" `K*B47 M'@`]``$````%````4D4Z( `````+`"D```````L`(P```````@%_``$````^ M````/&,]55,E83U?)7 ]5FES825L/59)4T$O3D%-15))0T$O,# P-S,Y,45 8;7-M86EL9W From: Squeakers Subject: Re: Help! 2 questions. Cc: Barbelle14@XXXXXX, wist@XXXXXX, sbl@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX >One hesitation I have in buying a small bike to start with is the response >I get from more seasoned bikers--they all say "if you buy a small bike >you'll outgrow it in a few months, then you'll be sorry you didn't start >out bigger." > Hi, Martha! The way I see it, the problem with the "more seasoned bikers" is that most of them arent, and never have been....short. :) Actually, in a WAY they're right. You probably WILL outgrow the smaller bike, and be ready for a bigger one soon. Maybe a few months. More likely after a year or so. How soon of course depends on how much you ride and how comfortable you get on your small bike. On the OTHER hand.... the reason that some of us might GET to the point of being ready for a bigger bike is BECAUSE of the opportunity to ride on a smaller bike. I tried to learn on a bigger bike. It ended up scaring the hell out of me, and I almost gave up. At 5 feet (alright, Im actually 4ft 11 1/2 ") I just wasnt able to handle barely being on my almost flat feet and learning to ride all at the same time. If my husband hadnt DRAGGED me to sit on the Rebel he'd seen sitting at the local pawn shop, Id still be stuck on the back. And totally.....horribly.....miserably... depressed! yes. I had quite a few shorter women that ride, (most of whom learned on either the Rebel or Savage and are now on Harleys) SWEAR to me that I COULD ride if I only got a small bike to learn on!! Even so, after seeing that I couldnt handle the Sporty, I decided I couldnt ride and was a mess. (thank God for desperate hubby's, eh?) :) The point Im taking forever to get to is... a smaller bike may be outgrown, but it gave me the opportunity to feel comfortable and CAPABLE enough to learn how to ride. And because it WASNT too big, I was MUCH safer on the streets. (Im still alive) If I had tried to force myself to continue trying to learn to ride on my Sporty, I honestly believe I would have hurt myself. Im ready for a big bike BECAUSE of my itty bitty bike. He never overpowered me. *I* controlled HIM! :) :) Squeakers From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 17:46:43 1997 To: "Martha E. Moore" Subject: Re: Help! 2 questions. Date: Tue, 01 Jul 97 17:41:31 -0500 From: "Linda Tanner" X-Mailer: messageMCI v3.3 CC: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" -- [ From: Linda J. Tanner * EMC.Ver #3.3 ] -- I don't understand your comment about your class 'L' license. What state are you in? I'm a woman 5'5" who has been riding for almost 3 years. I took the MSF class riding a 125 and don't remember having too much trouble with the seat height. After the class, I bought a Seca II (600 cc's,48 HP, ~430# dry). I had no particular reason to buy that particular bike. The price was right and I was afraid to get too small of a bike. I also wanted a 'sport' bike. Like I had a clue. I was dazzled by the colors. I dropped it a number of times - first time about 10 minutes into ownership. I blamed the problem on not paying attention, the weight of the bike and not having both feet down at the same time. I became fanatical about always putting both feet down together. I could almost flatfoot both sides. After becoming comfortable with the bike about 1.5 years into ownership, I traded it for an F3. I wanted something a little more powerful but not bigger displacement because my insurance is based on displacement. It was taller than the Seca, about the same weight, but distributed differently (600 cc's, 90HP, ~430# dry). I dropped it a few times too. I finally bought some mondo frankenstein boots that made me much taller and put me flatfoot again and a Corbin seat which lowered the seat height a little. I'm still a little nervous about dropping it during slow speed maneuvers, but things have improved alot. I've clocked 31K miles on both bikes and feel pretty confident. It's good to communicate with other women riders. There aren't as many out there as I would like. We had a guy in our MSF class who didn't know how to ride a bicycle. I can't imagine how difficult that must have been. He didn't finish the class. Good Luck LindaT. 95 F3 Purple Haze -------- REPLY, Original message follows -------- > Date: Tuesday, 01-Jul-97 03:46 PM > > From: Martha E. Moore \ Internet: (moore@XXXXXX) > To: Squeakers \ Internet: (squeaks@XXXXXX) > cc: Barbelle14@XXXXXX \ America On-Line: () > cc: wist@XXXXXX \ Internet: (wist@XXXXXX) > cc: sbl@XXXXXX \ Internet: (sbl@XXXXXX) > cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX \ Internet: (dc-cycles@XXXXXX) > > Subject: Re: Help! 2 questions. > > This is very interesting to me. After a few years as a passenger, I > decided to learn to ride myself. I took a motorcycle safety class, and > almost didn't pass. I had the same problem--being too short. I'd always > been on low-riders and didn't dream that these "little" bikes would be too > tall for me! I dropped bikes in class five times, became totally > intimidated and at one point I started to cry and wanted to leave. I'm > sure I would have left that day, but my boyfriend had dropped me off and I > didn't have any way of getting home. I did finish and I did pass, but > only barely. The only bike that was low enough for me to feel comfortable > with was a 125, and by the time we took the skills test, I decided that > was the only bike I could test on if I didn't want to drop my bike during > the "evaluation" (which results in failing the course). > > So, now I'm "stuck" with only a class L license. Of course I can still > take the DMV road test on a bigger bike and get a class M, but I'm faced > with the problem of gaining experience on a bigger bike without having a > valid license. > > The course did teach me a lot. I'm a better passenger when I ride with my > boyfriend because I understand what he's faced with in different > situations. I'm a better car driver and a better pedestrian. In my mind > I know I can ride a motorcycle if I can find the right bike to start on. > > I agree with some of the other responses--I'm looking for a smaller bike > that is in somewhat "rough" condition to start with. I don't want to > freak over the first dent or scratch. All I need is practice and > confidence. Luckily, I live less than a mile from the safety course and I > can get that practice fairly easily. > > I've looked at an older Rebel 250, and I thought it might work. I also > know what I want down the road--I'm totally in love with the Virago. I > sat on a 750 in the showroom and it's the one bike where EVERYTHING feels > like it's in the right place. It reminds me of my car, a Geo Metro, which > is one of the few cars I've ever driven that seems to "fit" me perfectly. > Some of the low-riders have foot pegs that make my knees feel like they're > sticking up in the air, including the Rebel 250. > > By the way, I'm almost 5"3 but my legs are fairly short. I've learned > that the 28" seat height is about as tall as I can go. I'm very fit and > do weight training, so the weight of the bike is not as much of a concern > as the height of the seat. > > One hesitation I have in buying a small bike to start with is the response > I get from more seasoned bikers--they all say "if you buy a small bike > you'll outgrow it in a few months, then you'll be sorry you didn't start > out bigger." > > I'd like to hear from anyone who cares to write back about what they chose > for a first bike and why, what their experiences were and how long they > waited to "move up" to a bigger, more powerful bike. > > > > Martha E. Moore > > -------- REPLY, End of original message -------- From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 17:50:20 1997 From: Amit Chatterjie To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" Subject: FW: EXTREME prep for newbies (was RE: Help! 2 questions) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 17:49:38 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) > ---------- > From: Bill Schmidt[SMTP:billsch@XXXXXX] > Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 1997 6:12 PM > To: mobacc@XXXXXX > Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: EXTREME prep for newbies (was RE: Help! 2 questions) > > One of the problems I'd guess you'd have with the moped approach and > the > translation of that experience to the world of big bikes is the lack > of > power--both go and stop--of the moped. You be better off with a trail > bike, decent protective gear, and some open fields for the kind of > practice you seem to be seeking. > The reason I recommended a moped was because the person asking the question had to make some financial considerations. As far as the stop and go, the dynamics of motorcycling always holds true, therefore, they are just accentuated with larger bikes. Power is not something you want to be concerned with as a beginner. I agree trial biking is an excellent way to go (for many reasons), but MORE expensive. Amit CBR1000 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 17:58:16 1997 From: jcarver@XXXXXX Original-From: jcarver@XXXXXX Original-From: "Carver, John" To: "'suzuki-l@XXXXXX'" , "'bandit-talk@XXXXXX'" , "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" Cc: "'Meier, Chris'" Subject: TICKET!!! Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 17:56:15 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To all, If you remember I am the guy who was caught speeding; 85/55. Well, today I had my day in court. I decided to get a lawyer and it paid off. The lawyer "interfaced" with the prosecutor and police officer. I could not have done that. Also, the lawyer informed me of various items that I would need at my trial. DMV abstracts from NJ, (my home state at the time), and later VA my new home. All, of this and more I was unaware of. I also took a driver improvement course during the time before the trial. Because I cooperated when I was stopped and did not mouth off, the officer had a favorable impression of me. That coupled with a good driving record, (1 offense in 3 years), lead the judge to sentence me to "Improper Driving". A $100 fine waived because I paid for the driving program. ($30 in court costs) The cost for the lawyer was $1045 hard earned dollars. Not including the time I spent collecting the various items of information. I am extremely pleased with the outcome. The lawyer kept stressing had it been in Fairfax Cty or the D.C. area, I would have probably faced jail time. This is all F.Y.I. But, I would say get a lawyer!!! Getting the reckless dropped as well as the speeding saved much money and grief. --John Ride SAFE From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 18:24:17 1997 X-Ms-Tnef-Correlator: From: "Jordan, Michael" To: Bill Schmidt , "mobacc@XXXXXX" Cc: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: RE: EXTREME prep for newbies (was RE: Help! 2 questions) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 13:13:37 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 Encoding: 10 TEXT, 45 UUENCODE X-Ms-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00 >One of the problems I'd guess you'd have with the moped approach and the >translation of that experience to the world of big bikes is the lack of >power--both go and stop--of the moped. You be better off with a trail >bike, decent protective gear, and some open fields for the kind of >practice you seem to be seeking. As I recall (from my dirt riding days), the falls came as part of the general activity - usually with an audience present - never thought of it as practice. begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(A84`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0F `0`A````1$4X,$4R M,T9&,T8Q1# Q,3DQ1C0P,# P1C8S0D-"1#8`.P@$``!X`"! !````90```$].14]&5$A%4%)/0DQ%35-)1$=515-3 M64]51$A!5D57251(5$A%34]0141!4%!23T%#2$%.1%1(151204Y33$%424]. M3T942$%415A015))14Y#151/5$A%5T]23$1/1D))1T(``````P`0$ $````# M`!$0`0````(!"1 !````(P(``!\"```H`P``3%I&==K*C/L#``H`=')S`'$+8'1I`B 7 M!!W0($QE>!H0"(%N8Q;P=&IO%S-W!;!L&# 7$6+T:6<@46L'D00`%S,+8!QC M:Q!M'U(FP7,QD2XQ9RXO"RZE+K-!M1?Q( EP8P= `R H`U*U&>!Y*M!I M`" TD&DUH,,5`"K087ES*2K %T+>9C31!" TP"S!800@"K%_!4 7%2P`%N = M@ ,@,.)V@QEP-8 M('5S=331YS6 )Z0#H&%U-: ?$Q90?P>0*Q(YP!;@&3 M MT@A@9_YH.",9<#>S,-4RLA8W+J0%$3$`/W ``P" $/____\+``. "" &```` M``# ````````1@`````#A0````#__P,`!8 (( 8``````, ```````!&```` M`!"%`````````P``@ @@!@``````P ```````$8`````4H4``+<-```>``& M"" &``````# ````````1@````!4A0```0````0````X+C ``P`"@ @@!@`` M````P ```````$8``````84````````+``2 "" &``````# ````````1@`` M```.A0````````,`!H (( 8``````, ```````!&`````!&%`````````P`' M@ @@!@``````P ```````$8`````&(4````````>``B "" &``````# ```` M````1@`````VA0```0````$`````````'@`)@ @@!@``````P ```````$8` M````-X4```$````!`````````!X`"H (( 8``````, ```````!&`````#B% M```!`````0`````````#`"8```````,`-@```````@'Y/P$````>```````` M`-RG0,C 0A :M+D(`"LOX8(!`````````"X````>`/@_`0```!4```!3>7-T M96T@061M:6YI Subject: Re: FW: EXTREME prep for newbies (was RE: Help! 2 questions) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit No disrespect intended Amit. As I recall, the writer had a pretty good sized machine (750?) already and seemed to me to be past the "balancing on two wheels" stage hence my suggestion/observation. In my experience, the coordinated use of brakes and/or throttle is a key consideration and, as I recall my moped experience, mopeds are woefully inadequate on that front. Besides, for the best highsides you want to be able to lock that rear brake and pour on the power when the rear end comes around. Amit Chatterjie wrote: > > > One of the problems I'd guess you'd have with the moped approach and > > the > > translation of that experience to the world of big bikes is the lack > > of > > power--both go and stop--of the moped. You be better off with a trail > > bike, decent protective gear, and some open fields for the kind of > > practice you seem to be seeking. > > > The reason I recommended a moped was because the person asking the > question had to make some financial considerations. As far as the stop > and go, the dynamics of motorcycling always holds true, therefore, they > are just accentuated with larger bikes. Power is not something you want > to be concerned with as a beginner. I agree trial biking is an excellent > way to go (for many reasons), but MORE expensive. > > Amit CBR1000 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 22:39:37 1997 X-Mailer: Calypso Version 2.10.18 Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 22:39:02 -0400 From: "paddy" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Help! 2 questions. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D REPLY PARTITION= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D On 06/30/97, at 10:29 PM, Squeakers wrote: I`m almost 15, about 5'5" and am interested in motorcycling. I have been= riding bicycles since I was 5. I bought a moped 2 months ago and have put= 700 miles on it. I have a lot of questions. a. how old do you have to be to take an msf course? b. how old do you have to be to get your license in VA c. I'm looking at a couple of bikes, 1. RD/RZ 250/350 80-84 2. KE100 new or used (it's a trail bike, that is street legal, and its a 2= stroke, costs only 2000 new less used 3. Ninja 250 used 4. Rebel 250 used 5. DR 250 6. XR 250 d. any ideas on insurance costs for me? thanks From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 23:38:36 1997 From: SackcoD@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 23:37:23 -0400 (EDT) To: mobacc@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: EXTREME prep for newbies (was RE: Help! 2 questions) In a message dated 97-07-01 14:54:55 EDT, mobacc@XXXXXX writes: << Or pockmarked moped and crash gear rental anyplace {:>? >> Y O U are the crash gear, no matter what else you might rent, and you are guarranteed until, not during, the first crash. I suggest practicing the skills that keep you from rolling high or sliding low. If worse comes to worse you scrub off a lot more energy before impact by using both brakes right into a wall than by "laying it down" and sliding across the pavement at a nice steady speed. The less energy you and your crash gear have when you finally hit the wall/cage/armco the less damage you sustain. And remember, E=mv**2; which means if you cut your speed in half you have cut your energy by 75%. Stay on the bike to stay on the brakes. I'll apply my typing brake now. Dave Sackrider From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 01:07:57 1997 From: KLThomas77@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 01:05:53 -0400 (EDT) To: vfr@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX, jolie@XXXXXX Subject: More humor-no motorcycle content Hey, y'all- Sorry--I couldn't come up with any motorcycle content. Kevin In a message dated 97-07-01 19:58:23 EDT, EptSwanson writes: << < Take me to Your Leader > > Two aliens land on earth and they happen to land next to a gas > station. So, the aliens waddle out of their ship and look around. The > first thing they see that resembles a being is the gas pump. The two > aliens approach and the first one says "Earthling, take me to your > leader!" > > Of course he gets no response... The first alien looks at his buddy > then addresses the pump again. "Earthling, I said take me to your > leader!" Of course, still no response... > > The alien then turns to his buddy and says "If this Earthling doesn't > show me some respect and at least acknowledge me, I'm going to blast >him!" > At that the second alien replies, "OK. I'm just going to stand down on > the next block." > > The first Alien looks a little puzzled, but waits for the other to > waddle > to the next block. He then addresses the pump a third time. "Earthling > take me to your leader!" Still nothing. So the alien then pulls out > his ray gun and vaporizes the pump... > > The gas station goes up in a huge explosion, blowing the alien all the > way down the block to his buddy. He gets up, dusts himself off, and >turns > to the second Alien. "If you knew that was going to happen why didn't > you warn me!?" > The second replies "Well, I didn't know exactly *what* was going to > happen. But there's no way I'm gonna' mess with a guy whose dick hangs > to the ground, wraps around his body twice, and is still long enough >to > stick in his left ear. > > -------------------------- Good bet >A little old lady entered the main branch of the Chase Manhattan bank >with a >large grocery bag in her arms. She told the teller that she wanted to open >an >account to make a substantial deposit, in excess of $200,000. Further, >she >said that since such a large sum was involved, she would deal only with >the >president of the bank to make the necessary arrangements. > >The teller looked in the bag and confirmed that it was, in fact, full of cash. >He >called upstairs and explained the situation to the bank president, who >agreed >to see the woman. The teller escorted her to the president's office, and >the >president invited her to have a seat, which she accepted. She repeated >her >request to open an account. > >The president said he would take care of it personally, but his curiosity >was >killing him. He said, "Mind if I ask how you happened to come into such a >large sum of cash?" > >"Not at all," was her reply. "I bet." "You bet?" he countered. "At the >racetrack, or on professional sports, or in casinos?" "Nothing like that," >she >said. "I just ... bet. For example, I'll bet you $50,000 that by tomorrow >morning your balls will be square." > >The president chuckled but, seeing that the lady had the funds to back up >such >a wild bet, agreed. They shook hands on it, and she promised to return at >nine >the next morning to follow up, and left. As the day wore on, the >president >found himself frequently checking to make sure that all was in order. It >was, >but just as a precaution he canceled his regular Tuesday-afternoon golf >match >and went home early. > >The next morning when he showered, he was actually quite relieved to >find >that nothing had changed drastically while he slept. He confidently >headed for >the bank, laughing all the way at the unexpected windfall that was about >to >become his. > >The little old lady showed up promptly at the appointed hour, >accompanied by >a young man. When the president asked who he was, she replied that >he was >her lawyer, who she always brought along when payoffs involving >significant >sums were involved. > >The president told her that sorry, she had lost that particular bet, so the >funds >would be outgoing rather than incoming. She insisted on examining the >evidence for herself, considering the amount at stake. He deemed it a >reasonable request under the circumstances, so he stood up, unbuckled >his >belt and dropped his pants. She proceeded to closely inspect his jewels >for >any abnormalities. > >As she did, the president noticed that her lawyer was standing in the >corner, >banging his head against the wall. He asked the lady, "What's the matter >with >him?" She paused her inspection long enough to glance at the lawyer >and >replied, "Oh, him. I bet him $150,000 that before ten a.m. today I'd have >the >president of the Chase Manhattan Bank by the balls." >> >> --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: Fwd: CPPARENT Digest - 27 Jun 1997 to 28 Jun 1997 Date: 97-07-01 19:58:23 EDT From: EptSwanson To: KLThomas77 In a message dated 97-06-30 23:27:09 EDT, jwgg@XXXXXX (Whit Garberson) writes: << Take me to Your Leader > > Two aliens land on earth and they happen to land next to a gas > station. So, the aliens waddle out of their ship and look around. The > first thing they see that resembles a being is the gas pump. The two > aliens approach and the first one says "Earthling, take me to your > leader!" > > Of course he gets no response... The first alien looks at his buddy > then addresses the pump again. "Earthling, I said take me to your > leader!" Of course, still no response... > > The alien then turns to his buddy and says "If this Earthling doesn't > show me some respect and at least acknowledge me, I'm going to blast >him!" > At that the second alien replies, "OK. I'm just going to stand down on > the next block." > > The first Alien looks a little puzzled, but waits for the other to > waddle > to the next block. He then addresses the pump a third time. "Earthling > take me to your leader!" Still nothing. So the alien then pulls out > his ray gun and vaporizes the pump... > > The gas station goes up in a huge explosion, blowing the alien all the > way down the block to his buddy. He gets up, dusts himself off, and >turns > to the second Alien. "If you knew that was going to happen why didn't > you warn me!?" > The second replies "Well, I didn't know exactly *what* was going to > happen. But there's no way I'm gonna' mess with a guy whose dick hangs > to the ground, wraps around his body twice, and is still long enough >to > stick in his left ear. > > -------------------------- Good bet >A little old lady entered the main branch of the Chase Manhattan bank >with a >large grocery bag in her arms. She told the teller that she wanted to open >an >account to make a substantial deposit, in excess of $200,000. Further, >she >said that since such a large sum was involved, she would deal only with >the >president of the bank to make the necessary arrangements. > >The teller looked in the bag and confirmed that it was, in fact, full of cash. >He >called upstairs and explained the situation to the bank president, who >agreed >to see the woman. The teller escorted her to the president's office, and >the >president invited her to have a seat, which she accepted. She repeated >her >request to open an account. > >The president said he would take care of it personally, but his curiosity >was >killing him. He said, "Mind if I ask how you happened to come into such a >large sum of cash?" > >"Not at all," was her reply. "I bet." "You bet?" he countered. "At the >racetrack, or on professional sports, or in casinos?" "Nothing like that," >she >said. "I just ... bet. For example, I'll bet you $50,000 that by tomorrow >morning your balls will be square." > >The president chuckled but, seeing that the lady had the funds to back up >such >a wild bet, agreed. They shook hands on it, and she promised to return at >nine >the next morning to follow up, and left. As the day wore on, the >president >found himself frequently checking to make sure that all was in order. It >was, >but just as a precaution he canceled his regular Tuesday-afternoon golf >match >and went home early. > >The next morning when he showered, he was actually quite relieved to >find >that nothing had changed drastically while he slept. He confidently >headed for >the bank, laughing all the way at the unexpected windfall that was about >to >become his. > >The little old lady showed up promptly at the appointed hour, >accompanied by >a young man. When the president asked who he was, she replied that >he was >her lawyer, who she always brought along when payoffs involving >significant >sums were involved. > >The president told her that sorry, she had lost that particular bet, so the >funds >would be outgoing rather than incoming. She insisted on examining the >evidence for herself, considering the amount at stake. He deemed it a >reasonable request under the circumstances, so he stood up, unbuckled >his >belt and dropped his pants. She proceeded to closely inspect his jewels >for >any abnormalities. > >As she did, the president noticed that her lawyer was standing in the >corner, >banging his head against the wall. He asked the lady, "What's the matter >with >him?" She paused her inspection long enough to glance at the lawyer >and >replied, "Oh, him. I bet him $150,000 that before ten a.m. today I'd have >the >president of the Chase Manhattan Bank by the balls." >> --------------------- Forwarded message: From: jwgg@XXXXXX (Whit Garberson) To: EptSwanson@XXXXXX Date: 97-06-30 23:27:09 EDT Dear Eileen, Here are two stupid jokes, hopefully not too raunchy for your taste, recently forwarded me by one of my brothers. If the internet is not useful for humor, I'm not sure what it's good for. Cheers, Whit ps. Julian and I *are* doing better. thanks for mentioning it. Settling into our new apt. I think I am better in large part because I see he's better. It is going to be some time before the divorce business settles down, let alone resolves, but I have a sense of at least some forward progress in that dept. and I feel pretty good about my lawyer. Other than the fact that he costs so goddam much. > Take me to Your Leader > > Two aliens land on earth and they happen to land next to a gas > station. So, the aliens waddle out of their ship and look around. The > first thing they see that resembles a being is the gas pump. The two > aliens approach and the first one says "Earthling, take me to your > leader!" > > Of course he gets no response... The first alien looks at his buddy > then addresses the pump again. "Earthling, I said take me to your > leader!" Of course, still no response... > > The alien then turns to his buddy and says "If this Earthling doesn't > show me some respect and at least acknowledge me, I'm going to blast >him!" > At that the second alien replies, "OK. I'm just going to stand down on > the next block." > > The first Alien looks a little puzzled, but waits for the other to > waddle > to the next block. He then addresses the pump a third time. "Earthling > take me to your leader!" Still nothing. So the alien then pulls out > his ray gun and vaporizes the pump... > > The gas station goes up in a huge explosion, blowing the alien all the > way down the block to his buddy. He gets up, dusts himself off, and >turns > to the second Alien. "If you knew that was going to happen why didn't > you warn me!?" > The second replies "Well, I didn't know exactly *what* was going to > happen. But there's no way I'm gonna' mess with a guy whose dick hangs > to the ground, wraps around his body twice, and is still long enough >to > stick in his left ear. > > -------------------------- Good bet >A little old lady entered the main branch of the Chase Manhattan bank >with a >large grocery bag in her arms. She told the teller that she wanted to open >an >account to make a substantial deposit, in excess of $200,000. Further, >she >said that since such a large sum was involved, she would deal only with >the >president of the bank to make the necessary arrangements. > >The teller looked in the bag and confirmed that it was, in fact, full of cash. >He >called upstairs and explained the situation to the bank president, who >agreed >to see the woman. The teller escorted her to the president's office, and >the >president invited her to have a seat, which she accepted. She repeated >her >request to open an account. > >The president said he would take care of it personally, but his curiosity >was >killing him. He said, "Mind if I ask how you happened to come into such a >large sum of cash?" > >"Not at all," was her reply. "I bet." "You bet?" he countered. "At the >racetrack, or on professional sports, or in casinos?" "Nothing like that," >she >said. "I just ... bet. For example, I'll bet you $50,000 that by tomorrow >morning your balls will be square." > >The president chuckled but, seeing that the lady had the funds to back up >such >a wild bet, agreed. They shook hands on it, and she promised to return at >nine >the next morning to follow up, and left. As the day wore on, the >president >found himself frequently checking to make sure that all was in order. It >was, >but just as a precaution he canceled his regular Tuesday-afternoon golf >match >and went home early. > >The next morning when he showered, he was actually quite relieved to >find >that nothing had changed drastically while he slept. He confidently >headed for >the bank, laughing all the way at the unexpected windfall that was about >to >become his. > >The little old lady showed up promptly at the appointed hour, >accompanied by >a young man. When the president asked who he was, she replied that >he was >her lawyer, who she always brought along when payoffs involving >significant >sums were involved. > >The president told her that sorry, she had lost that particular bet, so the >funds >would be outgoing rather than incoming. She insisted on examining the >evidence for herself, considering the amount at stake. He deemed it a >reasonable request under the circumstances, so he stood up, unbuckled >his >belt and dropped his pants. She proceeded to closely inspect his jewels >for >any abnormalities. > >As she did, the president noticed that her lawyer was standing in the >corner, >banging his head against the wall. He asked the lady, "What's the matter >with >him?" She paused her inspection long enough to glance at the lawyer >and >replied, "Oh, him. I bet him $150,000 that before ten a.m. today I'd have >the >president of the Chase Manhattan Bank by the balls." From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 02:02:49 1997 Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 02:02:54 -0700 From: "John C. Kozyn" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: KLThomas77@XXXXXX CC: vfr@XXXXXX, DC Moto List Subject: Re: More humor-no motorcycle content Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit KLThomas77@XXXXXX wrote: > Hey, y'all- Sorry--I couldn't come up with any motorcycle content. > Kevin Yeah so am I... --> major snippage <-- > Forwarded message: > In a message dated 97-07-01 19:58:23 EDT, EptSwanson writes: > Forwarded message: > Subj: Fwd: CPPARENT Digest - 27 Jun 1997 to 28 Jun 1997 > From: jwgg@XXXXXX (Whit Garberson) > To: EptSwanson@XXXXXX --> major snippage <-- > Dear Eileen, > > Here are two stupid jokes, hopefully not too raunchy for your taste, > recently forwarded me by one of my brothers. If the internet is not useful > for humor, I'm not sure what it's good for. > > Cheers, > Whit Hey Kev and Whit(less), Get a clue, the lists you targeted are (duhhh) not for humor - they're for M-O-T-O-R-C-Y-C-L-E-S Don't get me wrong, I like silly crap like this too sometimes, but there is a place and a time.. How do you spell appropriate? > ps. Julian and I *are* doing better. thanks for mentioning it. Settling > into our new apt. I think I am better in large part because I see he's > better. It is going to be some time before the divorce business settles > down, let alone resolves, but I have a sense of at least some forward > progress in that dept. and I feel pretty good about my lawyer. Other than > the fact that he costs so goddam much. Let's not even start to talk about how much bandwidth has been wasted here either. Imagine living with someone you want to or who wants to divorce you? Sheeesh! What a crazy world. N.B. Major Mofo Hint: Use left mouse button and highlight extraneous material not germane to message. When done, press delete key - works like a charm!! JK From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 07:22:21 1997 X-Ms-Tnef-Correlator: From: "Jordan, Michael" To: "'DC-Cycles'" Subject: RE: Help! 2 questions. Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 04:20:38 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 Encoding: 22 TEXT, 43 UUENCODE X-Ms-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00 >The way I see it, the problem with the "more seasoned bikers" is that >most of them arent, and never have been....short. :) Not all... 36 years of riding 29" inseam My wife has longer legs but "needs" a much shorter bike than I am comfortable with It's mostly mindset - if you expect to have problems, you will Michael Jordan '86 SRX-6 '93 GSX 1100GP (pick which foot touches or both feet "sur les points", as they say in ballet) AMA IBA etc. begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(A$+`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0F `0`A````1#A#0S U M.#-!-T8R1# Q,3DQ1C0P,# P1C8S0D-"1#8`+ `0$-@ 0``@````(` M`@`!!( !`!<```!213H@2&5L<"$@,B!Q=65S=&EO;G,N`"8'`0.0!@`D!@`` M)0````L``@`!`````P`N``````! `#D`(&BG]]F&O $>`' ``0```!<```!2 M13H@2&5L<"$@,B!Q=65S=&EO;G,N```"`7$``0```!8````!O(;9]XZ#!X ,`!Q!:`0``'@`($ $```!E````5$A% M5T%925-%14E4+%1(15!23T),14U7251(5$A%(DU/4D5314%33TY%1$))2T52 M4R))4U1(051-3U-43T942$5-05)%3E0L04Y$3D5615)(059%0D5%3E-(3U)4 M.BE.3U1!3 `````#`! 0`0````,`$1 !`````@$)$ $````V`@``,@(``/<" M``!,6D9U#Y^&`@,`"@!R8W!G,3(U=C(`] 'W( *D`^,"`&.": K (!! 'N :( GA M+A^Q`&QL'['S&R048"!Y&; 08!V"!1#* M9 N 9QLD,CD:D0" M1FP;2%J31\1AP9P0@=&)U M!4 B&? )@!J!8?\=,!.P&. ?\Q[Q&C(:T@.@ZQ=0)2 @!:!M`A `( &@QQAP M&*,A:DET)P0@'4(Z;!@':!Y"& @97APV1:2=&\?%!@U M!K%P#Z:##Q( (0(C$N("AQ!Y&?!;$&X!C1)E L M\2)S"'#3)R$$('!O"X!T&H >8?4:PF47,',7(0N &B B84<0@"" &S-!34$K MA4)[.640@&,BM18*&R01,0`!/& ```,`@!#_____"P`#@ @@!@``````P `` M`````$8``````X4`````__\#``6 "" &``````# ````````1@`````0A0`` M``````,``( (( 8``````, ```````!&`````%*%``"W#0``'@`!@ @@!@`` M````P ```````$8`````5(4```$````$````."XP``,``H (( 8``````, ` M``````!&``````&%````````"P`$@ @@!@``````P ```````$8`````#H4` M```````#``: "" &``````# ````````1@`````1A0````````,`!X (( 8` M`````, ```````!&`````!B%````````'@`(@ @@!@``````P ```````$8` M````-H4```$````!`````````!X`"8 (( 8``````, ```````!&`````#>% M```!`````0`````````>``J "" &``````# ````````1@`````XA0```0`` M``$``````````P`F```````#`#8```````(!^3\!````'@````````#`````````-RG0,C 0A :M+D(`"LO MX8(!`````````"X````>`/H_`0```!4```!3>7-T96T@061M:6YI`#T``0````4```!213H@``````L`*0`` M````"P`C```````"`7\``0```#X````\8SU54R5A/5\E<#U6:7-A)6P]5DE3 L02].04U%4DE#02\P,# W-#%#0D!M From: "Jordan, Michael" To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: RE: Help! 2 questions. Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 04:29:53 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 Encoding: 48 TEXT, 56 UUENCODE X-Ms-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00 >a. how old do you have to be to take an msf course? I believe it's 16 with parental consent and 18 without (my kids needed it at age 17) >b. how old do you have to be to get your license in VA 16 >c. I'm looking at a couple of bikes, My personal prejudices will be displayed below > 1. RD/RZ 250/350 80-84 Generally nice bikes with enough performance and potential as adrenaline generators. > 2. KE100 new or used (it's a trail bike, that is street legal, and its a 2 stroke, costs only 2000 new less used Good choice > 3. Ninja 250 used See comment for RD/RZ, but with MUCH less adrenaline > 4. Rebel 250 used Wife had one - hated it - no guts and uncomfortable Cute, though... > 5. DR 250 See #2 > 6. XR 250 See #2 >d. any ideas on insurance costs for me? Nope - sorry Generally, a dual-purpose bike is good as a first bike as it opens up a lot of possibilities that a street oriented bike tends to exclude (of course, if you live in a city, the off-road part tends to get less use). If you tend to find dirt roads and cow paths interesting, a DP bike is the ticket. I had a couple back in the 70's and enjoyed them immensely. Michael Jordan '86 SRX-6 '93 GSX 1100GP AMA IBA etc. begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(A$+`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0F `0`A````1$5#0S U M.#-!-T8R1# Q,3DQ1C0P,# P1C8S0D-"1#8`.0`' ``0```!<```!2 M13H@2&5L<"$@,B!Q=65S=&EO;G,N```"`7$``0```!8````!O(;;0GB#!"6 ,`"@!R8W!G,3(U=C(`] 'W( *D`^,"`&.": K %0"T@OF<'0$ 0';(;T#\R,D"B_RPP0 $%H$"P!" "(#;Q`=#_ M/@4#,#.B+2 $$3ZB-4\V4GP"X!J0A$TP43/ M*E7W!F 8( 6@;0> '8$XP30$#4 08AYQ'%--54-(+T1D.FA&_S,;-$CA4F7W M&U%);RH*5P:0&" 00"1 ^P(@&" M%^$6@!^#4X X,.\EH!YP.D$=P74Y$ -P M.,%W`9$M(!K40QYP0 ,X0BZ75P!.?S,;-4CA1%(T8KM1?TL%(PY05T\S*C9( MX=Y866]:?UN/%G1D(\ `<+L>P![P93HQ`B FL7,(<#\Y`T+42_('@!G_&P%. M;\C:'RT%Q)%!U!T M< AP.9!W)I$M@D!R9T92.C)+X&G_ M$& CD6?B.C$?H63!!C$M`/\LL0D`:>$9<&>!`) M@!1 _SG@!Y% ,RS 0+4% ML B0`C ?,8)GXCFQ'P$8065X8_\*0 $`'I M41F40! &D"2#_Q1 &Z(#H"S! M&]!FL1QP+3+\9BT#8%,1"K$%0&W');+]1'8I*[%OI&W"&#)H\!W!_S P 00#50P4H% ML&0`%```!`````0`` M```````>``J "" &``````# ````````1@`````XA0```0````$````````` M`P`F```````#`#8```````(!^3\!````'@````````#`````````-RG0,C 0A :M+D(`"LOX8(!```````` M`"X````>`/H_`0```!4```!3>7-T96T@061M:6YI`#T``0````4```!213H@``````L`*0``````"P`C```` M```"`7\``0```#X````\8SU54R5A/5\E<#U6:7-A)6P]5DE302].04U%4DE# C02\P,# W-#(P0D!M X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Young Riders Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jordan, Michael wrote: > > >a. how old do you have to be to take an msf course? > I believe it's 16 with parental consent and 18 without (my kids needed it > at age 17) Correct. Also, a parent or guardian's signature must be witnessed by the instructor if you take the class in VA. > > 1. RD/RZ 250/350 80-84 > Generally nice bikes with enough performance and potential as adrenaline > generators. Note: Here in the U.S., only the RZ350 was available in 1984 and 1985. The RD series 250 was discontinued in 1975 and the RD350 was supplanted by the RD400 in 1976; the RD400 was discontinued in 1979. No RZ250 was ever sold in the U.S. There are a few 'gray market' RD350L/C's (which was offered in Canada from 1980-1983) floating around. Parts are hard to get, and most U.S. examples were imported as race bikes. > > 2. KE100 new or used > Good choice If you confine your riding to surface streets only. > > 4. Rebel 250 used > Wife had one - hated it - no guts and uncomfortable Significantly more guts than a KE100, though! > Generally, a dual-purpose bike is good as a first bike as it opens up a lot > of possibilities that a street oriented bike tends to exclude (of course, > if you live in a city, the off-road part tends to get less use). If you > tend to find dirt roads and cow paths interesting, a DP bike is the ticket. Good advice. Plus, those rural backroads allow less adrenaline inducing learning to take place in the (relative) absence of heavy traffic. -- Tim Morrow '73 Ducati 750GT '76 Honda GL1000 - RatWing #3 '91 Suzuki VX800 '92 Ducati 750SS - The Hotrod '92 Ducati 851 - The Beast E-mail respondants remove the 'X' in the address below: XMORROWS@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 08:12:53 1997 X-Sender: cnorloff@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 07:57:35 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Chris Norloff Subject: Re: Help! 2 questions. In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >One hesitation I have in buying a small bike to start with is the response >I get from more seasoned bikers--they all say "if you buy a small bike >you'll outgrow it in a few months, then you'll be sorry you didn't start >out bigger." That's a hard one to answer because there are so many variables. First off, your first bike must physically fit you. You must be able to get both feet flat on the ground when you're in the saddle. Lower the bike, lower the seat, wear Doc Martens, but you must be able to get your feet flat. The bike must be light enough that you can handle it, particularly when you stop on a left-right slope and one foot goes down farther than you expect (the bike is now probably leaning past vertical, and you must be able to hold it up). The engine size is less critical, but has to do with your desired riding style. If you and/or your buddies cruise only back roads and rides are primarily social events with lots of stops, a 250 will do fine for quite a while. Figure you're probably seldom going over 55, and spending much time at 40-45 mph. Our 250 Nighthawks at the training site were a real blast to ride, and I'm used to a 750. If you want to start taking some longer trips and carrying camping gear, then maybe go up to a 400. It will probably be more comfortable on long trips. And remember that a 600 will pull a small person around as fast as a 750 or 900 will pull a large person. Generally, I recommend beginning riders pass the MSF course so they know how to handle a 250 (or 125 in some places). Then buy something in the 250-600 cc range, depending on the bike's physical size, what used bikes are available, and what your budget is. It's better to have too little bike and learn easily, than to have too much bike and learn harder, or hurt yourself. Chris Norloff From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 09:16:15 1997 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 09:15:55 -0400 X-Sender: squeaks@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Jordan, Michael" , "'DC-Cycles'" From: Squeakers Subject: RE: Help! 2 questions. >Not all... >36 years of riding >29" inseam > >My wife has longer legs but "needs" a much shorter bike than I am >comfortable with > >It's mostly mindset - if you expect to have problems, you will > > Michael. I wish it WAS all mindset, but it really isnt. Experience (or lack of) is the lions share of riding. There's too many factors involved. How much have you ridden a bicycle? Is the concept of hand and foot brakes foreign to you? Have you ever driven a car with a clutch and gears, so you at least have a general knowledge of how they work? How tall are you? How much do you weigh? How strong are you? (although not always, most shorter men STILL have greater strength than most shorter women) Mistakes that are easily compensated for because you have the strength and size are MUCH easier to handle, eh? And honestly, Michael, there's been many times while learning to ride that I wish I had the little more "inchage" that YOU have. :) The time I went down and damaged my bike some WOULDNT have happened if I had just had maybe 2 stupid more inches in my right leg. Just... two..... Squeakers Oh, BTW you said the Rebel has no "guts" and is uncomfortable????? I guess it depends on the size of the person riding it. My Rebel has plenty of guts. It may be a little 250, but I had no problems keeping up with the "big boys" on a long ride when our club was invited out to see the redskins at their training camp. We took the pretty route through the mountains in West Virginia ( it WAS beautiful!!!)It doesnt do 100mph, but I wouldnt even if it could. As for uncomfortable. Nonsense! I dont have to do the "butt dance" nearly as soon as most people do! From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 09:16:45 1997 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 08:54:21 -0400 From: Dave_Choat@XXXXXX (Dave Choat) Subject: Re[2]: EXTREME prep for newbies (was RE: Help! 2 questions) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Good point, the tires brake much better than the fairing does. "I had to put the bike down" to avoid something is ridiculous. Dave Choat _______________________________________________________________________________ Subject: Re: EXTREME prep for newbies (was RE: Help! 2 questions) From: SackcoD@XXXXXX at ddn Date: 1/7/1997 11:37 PM In a message dated 97-07-01 14:54:55 EDT, mobacc@XXXXXX writes: << Or pockmarked moped and crash gear rental anyplace {:>? >> Y O U are the crash gear, no matter what else you might rent, and you are guarranteed until, not during, the first crash. I suggest practicing the skills that keep you from rolling high or sliding low. If worse comes to worse you scrub off a lot more energy before impact by using both brakes right into a wall than by "laying it down" and sliding across the pavement at a nice steady speed. The less energy you and your crash gear have when you finally hit the wall/cage/armco the less damage you sustain. And remember, E=mv**2; which means if you cut your speed in half you have cut your energy by 75%. Stay on the bike to stay on the brakes. I'll apply my typing brake now. Dave Sackrider From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 09:30:16 1997 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 09:28:46 -0400 (EDT) From: "Clark E. Dorman" X-Sender: dorman@blackbird To: Chris Norloff Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Help! 2 questions. In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970702075735.009528a0@204.194.180.21> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 2 Jul 1997, Chris Norloff wrote: > >One hesitation I have in buying a small bike to start with is the response > >I get from more seasoned bikers--they all say "if you buy a small bike > >you'll outgrow it in a few months, then you'll be sorry you didn't start > >out bigger." [snip] > The bike must be light enough that you can handle it, particularly when you > stop on a left-right slope and one foot goes down farther than you expect > (the bike is now probably leaning past vertical, and you must be able to > hold it up). That's one of the things that I learned very quickly. The difficulties that I've had have not been while I was riding or moving the bike on decent terrain. You're guaranteed to eventually need to move the bike around on a hill with poor traction. Size the bike to be able to do that, at least at first. > The engine size is less critical, but has to do with your desired riding > style. If you and/or your buddies cruise only back roads and rides are > primarily social events with lots of stops, a 250 will do fine for quite a > while. Figure you're probably seldom going over 55, and spending much time > at 40-45 mph. Our 250 Nighthawks at the training site were a real blast to > ride, and I'm used to a 750. > > If you want to start taking some longer trips and carrying camping gear, > then maybe go up to a 400. It will probably be more comfortable on long > trips. > > And remember that a 600 will pull a small person around as fast as a 750 or > 900 will pull a large person. Being a medium size person, I started with an old, fairly beaten '83 Yamaha 650 (air cooled, two cylinder). For my size (5'8", 200#), I could not recommend a better starting bike. My advice is to make sure that your first bike is one that you are not going to mind dropping. Because you are (probably) going to drop it. If you want to learn how to do basic maintenance, then you want a simple bike that has cheap available parts. Because you are (probably) going to make mistakes, largely due to taking things apart to find out that _that_ was not what you needed to fix. If you get a cheap , used first bike, then you can learn on it, drop it, make mistakes, and then sell it for pretty close or equal to the orignal cost. Just keep in mind that it's got to be safe and will run consistently. Other than that, go cheap and ugly and sell it later. (Have no fear, since I have learned maintenance and riding, the bike is now in better condition than when I got it; and I'd never sell an un-safe bike, and it's not for sale anyway.) > Generally, I recommend beginning riders pass the MSF course so they know > how to handle a 250 (or 125 in some places). Then buy something in the > 250-600 cc range, depending on the bike's physical size, what used bikes > are available, and what your budget is. > > It's better to have too little bike and learn easily, than to have too much > bike and learn harder, or hurt yourself. It's difficult for me to imagine that a person needs much more than a 750 or 850 for street riding unless you really like to go fast. A decent condition, tuned 750 will go awfully fast. It makes more sense to learn how to get more out of the bike that you have before moving on to a bigger faster bike. Just my $0.02. -- Clark From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 09:59:52 1997 X-Mailer: ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.00 Date: Wed, 02 Jul 97 09:42:14 -0800 From: "Joe Snider" To: Subject: Re[2]: EXTREME prep for newbies (was RE: Help! 2 questions) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On the crashing of mopeds/scooters side of things I have an amusing tangent. I went to Key West recently with a friend from work while in Florida on business. Renting scooters to scoot around the island is the "in" thing to do, so we obliged. My friend looked rather unstable as the rental guy showed her around the parking lot. She claimed she had been to Key West and rented a scooter before, so I gave her the benefit of the doubt. We scooted off to breakfast. When we came out, I let her pull out into the street first. She made it about half way into the street then somehow hit the gas, jumped the curb, was heading straight towards a parked car, swerved and ran through a three foot stretch of bushes, fell off and left the bike in the middle of the sidewalk. After determining that she was okay, aside from a few scratches and bruises, we took a look at the bike, which became somewhat of a concern since the deposit was on my credit card. We got it started again, and nothing looked too bent or broken. The worst was the left mirror was shattered and broken, and a few scratches. A local who witnessed the incident directed us to a Honda shop down the road where we got a new mirror. They were also kind enough to buff out the scratches, and even had some purple Honda touch up paint to take care of the big ones. We then went to the drug store and got a silver paint pen to duplicate the rental company's number on the mirror. After a little dirt was rubbed on the mirror to make it look less new, we were ready to go. The rental company was none the wiser, and our bill came to $17 as opposed to what the rental company would have charged. ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: RE: EXTREME prep for newbies (was RE: Help! 2 questions) Author: "Jordan Michael" at smtpgw Date: 7/1/97 1:13 PM >One of the problems I'd guess you'd have with the moped approach and the >translation of that experience to the world of big bikes is the lack of >power--both go and stop--of the moped. You be better off with a trail >bike, decent protective gear, and some open fields for the kind of >practice you seem to be seeking. As I recall (from my dirt riding days), the falls came as part of the general activity - usually with an audience present - never thought of it as practice. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 10:20:58 1997 Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 10:17 -0400 (EDT) From: "Todd B Peer" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Difficult, was Re: Help! 2 questions. X-Mailer: MailRoom v2.1e Clark Wrote: It's difficult for me to imagine that a person needs much more than a 750 or 850 for street riding unless you really like to go fast. Sometimes Clark it's not about going fast (hard for some of you squids to grasp). My ST1100 does indeed go 'fast', but it is also 50 times more comfortable to ride at speed and at the speed limit than my CB750. It also looks cooler and demands more attention, something that we all need from the 'head-in-the-clouds' cagers, eh? One day, you will imagine and you will wonder why you had such difficulty. Todd From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 11:08:05 1997 From: "Dysart, Glenn B., Mr., IMCEN" To: "'DC Cycles'" Subject: Good Stuff Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 11:07:28 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 Encoding: 18 TEXT One of the highlights to our past weekend ride was of course talking about our bikes. We got onto the subject of clean and shinny engines. My bike being an 84 has a dull look to the engine from the years of use. I told one guy that I used WD-40 but hated it because it picked up every speck of dirt as I ride plus it comes out in such high pressure it get all over everything else. He said that he used the S100 Engine Brightner. I went and bought some of this stuff the other day and put it on last night. All I can say is WOW! This stuff kicks butt. You spray it on (out of an aerosol can) and then a couple seconds later just wipe lightly. It leaves a great shine, doesn't splash when it comes out and doesn't seem to be greasy or oily. I haven't rode with it on yet so I don't know how long it lasts. I recommend this stuff to anyone with an exposed engine that wants so more shine. Glenn Dysart DysarGB@XXXXXX 84 V30 Magna From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 16:16:59 1997 From: Barbelle14@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 16:15:41 -0400 (EDT) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: July 4th ride? Anybody gettin' together for a little Amurrican-highway-type fun? My bruises are red and blue, and yellow (almost white). Let's go riding!!! Sharon From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 17:22:09 1997 X-Mailer: ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.00 Date: Wed, 02 Jul 97 17:12:16 -0500 From: "Brian McCoy" To: , Subject: Re: July 4th ride? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Count me in - I was planning on picking up a new bike, but looks like that's not going to happen. I can be reached at bmccoy@XXXXXX through 8pm Thursday evening, and (301)409-5911 anytime (pager w/voice mail). Ride safe... Brian McCoy ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: July 4th ride? Author: at smtplink-micros Date: 7/2/97 4:15 PM Anybody gettin' together for a little Amurrican-highway-type fun? My bruises are red and blue, and yellow (almost white). Let's go riding!!! Sharon From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 17:37:28 1997 X-Sender: gixer@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 17:38:55 -0400 To: MORROWS@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "Collin T. Fagan" Subject: Re: Young Riders In-Reply-To: <33BA4327.3428@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> > 2. KE100 new or used >> Good choice > >If you confine your riding to surface streets only. > > 4. Rebel 250 used >> Wife had one - hated it - no guts and uncomfortable > >Significantly more guts than a KE100, though! > I beg to differ. I had a KE100 quite a number of years ago that was an absolute blast to ride both on and off road. It definitely didn't have the guts of either of my race bikes (KX 125 & 250) but it could easily whip out a ten footer (with a tabletop even) (a little trying on the suspension, but it did ok) & with a little tinkering, it had plenty of guts. My little brothers Yamahopper DT125 could take higher jumps with its mono-shock suspension, but its engine was no comparison for kawasaki torque and power. ps: Tim, you have far too many awsome eye-talion bikes for your own good ;^) Collin _________________________________________ Collin and Penny Fagan LTjg, U.S. Coast Guard (202) 366-0067 (work) (703) 356-4279 (home) (703) 816-7255 (pager) http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/5280/ ride.html (ride sheets) bike.html (pics of the bikes) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 19:07:57 1997 Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 18:35:42 -0400 From: Tim Morrow X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Collin T. Fagan" CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Young Riders Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Collin T. Fagan wrote: > > >> > 2. KE100 new or used > >> Good choice > > > >If you confine your riding to surface streets only. > > I beg to differ. (snip) Sorry, I should have been more specific. I meant surface streets as opposed to limited access highways, not as opposed to riding off road. -- Tim Morrow '73 Ducati 750GT '76 Honda GL1000 - RatWing #3 '91 Suzuki VX800 '92 Ducati 750SS - The Hotrod '92 Ducati 851 - The Beast E-mail respondants remove the 'X' in the address below: XMORROWS@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 19:29:20 1997 Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 19:25:35 -0400 From: "Thomas H. Gimer" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: August trip Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've got the month of August off this year, and am planning to take a long (1-2 week) trip. If any of you were in the same unfortuneate situation, where would you go? If any of you _are_ in the same unfortuneate situation, would you like to come along? I'll be taking the ZX-6. I enjoy camping, fishing, drinking, sleeping, etc. This is basically a request for input concerning which part of the east coast you would choose to see by motorcycle if you had the opportunity. Thanks. -- Thomas H. Gimer tgimer@XXXXXX *email address shown here (not in header) is valid* '90 XR600R '93 XR250R '94 ZX-6E AMA#549096 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 19:58:18 1997 From: "Gilley, Lester" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: August trip Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 20:04:18 -0400 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/plain This isn't necessarily a full 2 week trip bit I've always wanted to drive down the Shannendoa (SP! I know) Parkway down to Kentucky and visit Mammoth National Park and climb around in the caves. From there you can ride (again through the mountains) to Great Smokey Mountain National Park for some good rides and nice scenery. Then back up the parkway home. Good riding and good scenery. I believe that there are also quite a few camping grounds the whole way down and back. Then again, I am the sissy that is taking the car to Maine in the end of July for 10 days. My $.02. - Lester '97 YZF1000 > -----Original Message----- > From: Thomas H. Gimer [SMTP:tgimer@?smart?.net] > Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 1997 7:26 PM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: August trip > > I've got the month of August off this year, and am planning to take a > long (1-2 week) trip. If any of you were in the same unfortuneate > situation, where would you go? If any of you _are_ in the same > unfortuneate situation, would you like to come along? > > I'll be taking the ZX-6. I enjoy camping, fishing, drinking, > sleeping, > etc. > > This is basically a request for input concerning which part of the > east > coast you would choose to see by motorcycle if you had the > opportunity. > > Thanks. > > -- > Thomas H. Gimer tgimer@XXXXXX > *email address shown here (not in header) is valid* > '90 XR600R '93 XR250R '94 ZX-6E AMA#549096 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 3 00:59:18 1997 From: KLThomas77@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 00:58:18 -0400 (EDT) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Good Stuff --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: Re: Good Stuff Date: 97-07-03 00:58:21 EDT From: KLThomas77 To: Dysart@XXXXXX Hey, y'all- Just want to add that when Glenn likes a cleaner, you know it's good---while out riding, he wipes the bike down with a chamois at every stop!!! Seriously!! He's got the cleanest motorcycle I've ever seen. Later Kevin From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 3 01:04:16 1997 From: KLThomas77@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 01:03:34 -0400 (EDT) To: Todd.B.Peer@XXXXXX, vfr@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: More humor-no motorcycle content Sorry-- I thought my sister edited these before she sent them to me. I didn't notice all that personal stuff in there. That's from whoever sent it to her. And I don't know what's up with the 3 times each. I don't think I got them 3 times, but it happens sometimes. Later Kevin From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 3 01:12:48 1997 From: KLThomas77@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 01:12:09 -0400 (EDT) To: bmccoy@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: July 4th ride? Hey, y'all- My friend saw a sign at the Frederick Co. MD fairgrounds proclaiming a motorcycle race there on the 4th. I don't know what kind of racing, but I'd bet it's flat track, probably dirt. I hope to have more details tomorrow. Watch this space! Later Kevin From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 3 06:50:52 1997 From: "Dysart, Glenn B., Mr., IMCEN" To: "'Brian McCoy'" Cc: "'DC Cycles'" Subject: RE: July 4th ride? Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 06:50:35 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 Encoding: 17 TEXT Brian, I thought you were going to replace your clutch? If you guys go anywhere count me in. If you want, I could lead a nice VA ride if anyone is interested. Let me know the distance/time you want to travel and I'll decide which route(s) to take. Glenn Dysart DysarGB@XXXXXX 84 V30 Magna > >> Count me in - I was planning on picking up a new bike, but looks like >> that's not going to happen. I can be reached at bmccoy@XXXXXX >> through 8pm Thursday evening, and (301)409-5911 anytime (pager w/voice >> mail). > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 3 07:52:55 1997 From: sbeck@XXXXXX X-Lotus-FromDomain: ISI To: 0003833157@XXXXXX, 103126.2533@XXXXXX, anniem@XXXXXX, askstephen@XXXXXX, B.Elwell@XXXXXX, baldwin2@XXXXXX, bdouglas@XXXXXX, bellomo@XXXXXX, Biker413@XXXXXX, bill.maggs@XXXXXX, billsch@XXXXXX, BKVA1@XXXXXX, blase.morgan@XXXXXX, bmonaco@XXXXXX, botcher@XXXXXX, botcher1@XXXXXX, BPOKRASS@XXXXXX, bsajim@XXXXXX, BWEINER@XXXXXX, C.Fagan/MSC01@XXXXXX, cfagan@XXXXXX, Chris.Kleponis@XXXXXX, cnorloff@XXXXXX, cometk@XXXXXX, conteh@XXXXXX, Cooper@XXXXXX, creativ3@XXXXXX, dale@XXXXXX, darden@XXXXXX, davenunn@XXXXXX, DavidW@XXXXXX, dorman@XXXXXX, dotis@XXXXXX, dstrout@XXXXXX, dutchd@XXXXXX, dwakef@XXXXXX, ecrosen@XXXXXX, Edward_Shea@XXXXXX, elliottm@XXXXXX, engine14@XXXXXX, eoffalcon@XXXXXX, fsupik@XXXXXX, gcraddoc@XXXXXX, GRALNGAA@XXXXXX, hacker@XXXXXX, HDWarp80@XXXXXX, herb_manell@XXXXXX, higdont@XXXXXX, hintze@XXXXXX, hmanell@XXXXXX, hugo1200@XXXXXX, jbalders@XXXXXX, JBerkin@XXXXXX, jcclaman@XXXXXX, jchi@XXXXXX, jckozyn@XXXXXX, jeffp@XXXXXX, jimb@XXXXXX, jimi@XXXXXX, jockodc@XXXXXX, John.Nelson@XXXXXX, jonesw@XXXXXX, jrduffy@XXXXXX, jschaaf@XXXXXX, jsnider@XXXXXX, jv@XXXXXX, jwfreyjr@XXXXXX, kays1@XXXXXX, kbass@XXXXXX, kbour@XXXXXX, kmlee@XXXXXX, larry_wilson@XXXXXX, larry_wilson@XXXXXX, Lgvxlh883@XXXXXX, linda.tanner@XXXXXX, louieb386@XXXXXX, louis@XXXXXX, Loupil@XXXXXX, lvarouxis@XXXXXX, mackinto@XXXXXX, mdow@XXXXXX, mducey@XXXXXX, merscht@XXXXXX, Michael_Dow@XXXXXX, mike@XXXXXX, mjhayes@XXXXXX, morris@XXXXXX, mustchz@XXXXXX, mxc11@XXXXXX, names@XXXXXX, nicholsn@XXXXXX, padoug@XXXXXX, Pcoleman@XXXXXX, pdenno@XXXXXX, penneyps@XXXXXX, philipa@XXXXXX, pwwisnes@XXXXXX, Randy.Chartier@XXXXXX, remenick@XXXXXX, rford@XXXXXX, RFRAER@XXXXXX, RichDe@XXXXXX, robertst@XXXXXX, saturnsr1@XXXXXX, sbeck@XXXXXX, scotje@XXXXXX, shadorebel@XXXXXX, slarrab@XXXXXX, smonell@XXXXXX, soukupj@XXXXXX, spak@XXXXXX, SRFox@XXXXXX, steeleg@XXXXXX, STEVE_JOHNSON@XXXXXX, steveb@XXXXXX, syswsb@XXXXXX, tbgliz@XXXXXX, terpstra@XXXXXX, thomas_meeker@XXXXXX, tobias@XXXXXX, Todd.B.Peer@XXXXXX, Tracy-Minter@XXXXXX, venture.royale@XXXXXX, vzo1@XXXXXX, VZO1@XXXXXX, wef@XXXXXX, Winger1200@XXXXXX, wjm1@XXXXXX, wrohara@XXXXXX, IMCEAMS-C3I_C3IPNT1_manteid@XXXXXX, IMCEAMS-C3I_C3ISKY1_WeinsteJ@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 15:59:04 -0400 Subject: July 4th ride Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII For all you riders that don't already have plans for the daylight portion of July 4th, and would like some excitement, please consider riding with us to the Barbara Fritchie Classic flat track race this Friday. If you've never seen this type of racing, you owe it to yourself to give it a try. Picture a dozen riders on a half mile horse race track, pitching their bikes over hard to the left at about a hundred miles per hour and turning their wheels to the right in order to stay in control around the turn, and you get an idea of how wild this kind of racing can be. Getting back in time for fireworks activities will be no problem. The races will be over no later than 6 pm, probably a good deal earlier. Sometimes they finish around 4 pm. The actual races start at 1 pm. Practice and qualifying heats usually start about 11 am. The entrance fee in the past has been 10 dollars and I assume it is still the same. They have your standard hamburgers, hot-dogs and sodas for sale. The location is at the fairgrounds in Frederick Md. It's a horse race track with a large covered grandstand that provides comfortable shade. I would like to get up their early enough to catch some of the practice and qualifying, so if we leave no later than 9 we should be able to get there by 11. We currently have about 4 people that plan to meet at the Fairfax Diner at 8 am and we intend to leave no later than 9 am. To get to the Silver diner , take 66 west past the beltway. exit 50 w. take west ox rd SOUTH exit, go through several lights and diner will be on your left.] Hope to see some of you Friday morning. Steve Beck, From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 3 11:41:21 1997 From: sbeck@XXXXXX X-Lotus-FromDomain: ISI To: 0003833157@XXXXXX, 103126.2533@XXXXXX, anniem@XXXXXX, askstephen@XXXXXX, B.Elwell@XXXXXX, baldwin2@XXXXXX, bdouglas@XXXXXX, bellomo@XXXXXX, Biker413@XXXXXX, bill.maggs@XXXXXX, billsch@XXXXXX, BKVA1@XXXXXX, blase.morgan@XXXXXX, bmonaco@XXXXXX, botcher@XXXXXX, botcher1@XXXXXX, BPOKRASS@XXXXXX, bsajim@XXXXXX, BWEINER@XXXXXX, C.Fagan/MSC01@XXXXXX, cfagan@XXXXXX, Chris.Kleponis@XXXXXX, cnorloff@XXXXXX, cometk@XXXXXX, conteh@XXXXXX, Cooper@XXXXXX, creativ3@XXXXXX, dale@XXXXXX, darden@XXXXXX, davenunn@XXXXXX, DavidW@XXXXXX, dorman@XXXXXX, dotis@XXXXXX, dstrout@XXXXXX, dutchd@XXXXXX, dwakef@XXXXXX, ecrosen@XXXXXX, Edward_Shea@XXXXXX, elliottm@XXXXXX, engine14@XXXXXX, eoffalcon@XXXXXX, fsupik@XXXXXX, gcraddoc@XXXXXX, GRALNGAA@XXXXXX, hacker@XXXXXX, HDWarp80@XXXXXX, herb_manell@XXXXXX, higdont@XXXXXX, hintze@XXXXXX, hmanell@XXXXXX, hugo1200@XXXXXX, jbalders@XXXXXX, JBerkin@XXXXXX, jcclaman@XXXXXX, jchi@XXXXXX, jckozyn@XXXXXX, jeffp@XXXXXX, jimb@XXXXXX, jimi@XXXXXX, jockodc@XXXXXX, John.Nelson@XXXXXX, jonesw@XXXXXX, jrduffy@XXXXXX, jschaaf@XXXXXX, jsnider@XXXXXX, jv@XXXXXX, jwfreyjr@XXXXXX, kays1@XXXXXX, kbass@XXXXXX, kbour@XXXXXX, kmlee@XXXXXX, larry_wilson@XXXXXX, larry_wilson@XXXXXX, Lgvxlh883@XXXXXX, linda.tanner@XXXXXX, louieb386@XXXXXX, louis@XXXXXX, Loupil@XXXXXX, lvarouxis@XXXXXX, mackinto@XXXXXX, mdow@XXXXXX, mducey@XXXXXX, merscht@XXXXXX, Michael_Dow@XXXXXX, mike@XXXXXX, mjhayes@XXXXXX, morris@XXXXXX, mustchz@XXXXXX, mxc11@XXXXXX, names@XXXXXX, nicholsn@XXXXXX, padoug@XXXXXX, Pcoleman@XXXXXX, pdenno@XXXXXX, penneyps@XXXXXX, philipa@XXXXXX, pwwisnes@XXXXXX, Randy.Chartier@XXXXXX, remenick@XXXXXX, rford@XXXXXX, RFRAER@XXXXXX, RichDe@XXXXXX, robertst@XXXXXX, saturnsr1@XXXXXX, sbeck@XXXXXX, scotje@XXXXXX, shadorebel@XXXXXX, slarrab@XXXXXX, smonell@XXXXXX, soukupj@XXXXXX, spak@XXXXXX, SRFox@XXXXXX, steeleg@XXXXXX, STEVE_JOHNSON@XXXXXX, steveb@XXXXXX, syswsb@XXXXXX, tbgliz@XXXXXX, terpstra@XXXXXX, thomas_meeker@XXXXXX, tobias@XXXXXX, Todd.B.Peer@XXXXXX, Tracy-Minter@XXXXXX, venture.royale@XXXXXX, vzo1@XXXXXX, VZO1@XXXXXX, wef@XXXXXX, Winger1200@XXXXXX, wjm1@XXXXXX, wrohara@XXXXXX, IMCEAMS-C3I_C3IPNT1_manteid@XXXXXX, IMCEAMS-C3I_C3ISKY1_WeinsteJ@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 15:59:04 -0400 Subject: July 4th ride Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII For all you riders that don't already have plans for the daylight portion of July 4th, and would like some excitement, please consider riding with us to the Barbara Fritchie Classic flat track race this Friday. If you've never seen this type of racing, you owe it to yourself to give it a try. Picture a dozen riders on a half mile horse race track, pitching their bikes over hard to the left at about a hundred miles per hour and turning their wheels to the right in order to stay in control around the turn, and you get an idea of how wild this kind of racing can be. Getting back in time for fireworks activities will be no problem. The races will be over no later than 6 pm, probably a good deal earlier. Sometimes they finish around 4 pm. The actual races start at 1 pm. Practice and qualifying heats usually start about 11 am. The entrance fee in the past has been 10 dollars and I assume it is still the same. They have your standard hamburgers, hot-dogs and sodas for sale. The location is at the fairgrounds in Frederick Md. It's a horse race track with a large covered grandstand that provides comfortable shade. I would like to get up their early enough to catch some of the practice and qualifying, so if we leave no later than 9 we should be able to get there by 11. We currently have about 4 people that plan to meet at the Fairfax Diner at 8 am and we intend to leave no later than 9 am. To get to the Silver diner , take 66 west past the beltway. exit 50 w. take west ox rd SOUTH exit, go through several lights and diner will be on your left.] Hope to see some of you Friday morning. Steve Beck, From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 3 14:30:12 1997 X-Mailer: ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.00 Date: Thu, 03 Jul 97 14:25:26 -0500 From: "Brian McCoy" To: Subject: Helmet laws.. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all.. Just curious (read - sitting at work, borred), what's the helmet law for passangers in MD, VA, and DC? Required, required under 18, not required? Not that I've ever had anyone on the back of a motorcycle... and I wouldn't let anyone ride with me without the same level of protection I require for myself.. Also.. anyone out there any good at laying custom fiberglass? I'm buying a nice old bike, and would like to play with it's looks a little, but don't have the skills/place to lay fiberglass. Heck, I don't have a place to change oil.. (slanted driveway).. blah... sorry for bothering everyone, work's DEAD today. Brian McCoy 81 CB750f NEW ADDITION! 86 VF500f Scrappy nope.. no cages... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 3 15:15:56 1997 From: KLThomas77@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 15:15:06 -0400 (EDT) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: K1200RS spotted in Silver Spring Hey, y'all- I saw a K1200RS on University Blvd today. Was that one of us? Later Kevin From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 3 15:18:35 1997 From: jimi@XXXXXX X-Authentication-Warning: clark.net: jimi owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 15:18:07 -0400 (EDT) To: DC Cycles Subject: 1990 HawkGT 647cc FOR SALE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi, I have a 100% stock, 1990 red HawkGT for sale. The bike is absolutely perfect, not a scratch on it, ultra clean. It has about 7000 miles on it, and has a Targa Tsunami fairing on it, painted to match, but comes off easily if you want. If you have been looking, you know there are not many left in this kind shape. $3300. Feel free to email me with questions, or call 703-264-5501. jimi@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 4 07:25:57 1997 X-Authentication-Warning: denmark.it.earthlink.net: 1Cust56.Max3.Washington.DC.MS.UU.NET [153.34.50.56] didn't use HELO protocol Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 07:24:23 -0700 From: Mark Lucas Organization: to a fault X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-KIT (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: DC Cycles Mailing List Subject: Re: Helmet laws.. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Flat out required for anyone on a motorcycle in MD, DC, and VA. and, IMHO, it's crazy to get on a bike without one anyway.... -- Peace, Mark Lucas http://home.earthlink.net/~mjlucas/ mjlucas@XXXXXX PGP Public Key available on request From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jul 5 00:19:49 1997 Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 23:57:48 +45722824 (EDT) From: "Gil M. Nissley" Subject: Re: Helmet laws.. To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In-Reply-To: <9707038679.AA867954682@smtplink.micros.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On the subject of helmets...I stopped in to that accessory place in Falls Church(can't remember the name,small shop,guy rides a Beemer with a dog kennel) the other day,and the guy said that in VA you're required to have 4 square inches of reflective material on your helmet.I've never heard of this.Can anyone tell me if this is true? Also,a quick product review.I picked up one of those hot weather scarfs that you soak in water(can't remember the product's name,boy am I doing good tonight) that he recommended.It works pretty good.You need to be in motion for it to work properly,but when you're stopped it doesn't make you any warmer,and it does a good job of keeping the back of your neck from getting sunburned.A good buy for anyone who doesn't want to spend the money on specialized hot weather gear like my CoolTech jacket. The official BuellBoy Genes model. gnissley@XXXXXX GATB#1121 HSB#38DT Buell S1 Lightning "The Petty Hate Machine" "Auto-Darwin the ignorant." D. Sorenson From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jul 5 08:42:58 1997 Date: Sat, 05 Jul 1997 08:31:30 -0400 From: Tim Morrow X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Gil M. Nissley" CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Helmet laws.. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gil M. Nissley wrote: > > On the subject of helmets...I stopped in to that accessory place in > Falls Church(can't remember the name,small shop,guy rides a Beemer with > a dog kennel) ... Art Crow, runs Rider's Accessory Warehouse. > ... the other day,and the guy said that in VA you're required > to have 4 square inches of reflective material on your helmet.I've never > heard of this.Can anyone tell me if this is true? I can't be 100% sure, but I also have some vestigal memory of this item being true. If it is, I've never heard of it being enforced. -- Tim Morrow '73 Ducati 750GT '76 Honda GL1000 - RatWing #3 '91 Suzuki VX800 '92 Ducati 750SS - The Hotrod '92 Ducati 851 - The Beast E-mail respondants remove the 'X' in the address below: XMORROWS@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jul 5 14:36:42 1997 From: KLThomas77@XXXXXX Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 14:35:52 -0400 (EDT) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Al @ Level 5, please read Al- I forgot to tell you I want a Level 5 t-shirt when they are ready. Thane told me about them. Extra large, not black. thanks Kevin From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jul 5 18:26:05 1997 X-Mailer: ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.00 Date: Sat, 05 Jul 97 18:18:17 -0500 From: "Brian McCoy" To: , Cc: Subject: Re[2]: Helmet laws.. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > ... the other day,and the guy said that in VA you're required > to have 4 square inches of reflective material on your helmet.I've never > heard of this.Can anyone tell me if this is true? I know it's true in MD... though noone's said a word to me about it (getting a license, MSF course, etc....) Brian McCoy 86 VF500f -with a BAD clutch From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jul 5 20:01:09 1997 X-Mailer: ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.00 Date: Sat, 05 Jul 97 19:55:46 -0500 From: "Brian McCoy" To: , Subject: July 4th ride report. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings again fellow crazies.. Ok, maybe I'm the only crazy one... esp. doing a 400 mile ride (ok, 390) with a sadly slipping clutch. But it was a GOOD ride - I left home at 8am yesterday to meet up with another V4 powered bike (a Very clean 84(?) V30), and some gsxr750 thing too... We headed out 66 west (BORING!!) and caught some nifty little back-roads south. We were (I think) pretty much parallel to Skyline Drive. I was supprised that there weren't many bikes out and about it was such a beautiful day. This trip was definatally much more on the leasure side of my rideing style - out of necesity mostly, $#&^%$%^ clutch. You know it's time to replace it when holding a steady throtle at 7k, slight uphill.. and loseing speed while the tach rises... *grumble*. Makes for an interesting feeling when attempting to squirt out of a corner too... feels almost as if the back end has let loose and is swinging free... weight moveing from the back tire to the front.. yuck. ANYWAY.. back to the ride report.... it was a very uneventful ride, no cops (well, one chick that gave me a NASTY stare.. she probably wanted to be out with us, and the park police on Skyline Drive). Lunch at this nice little place called Northern Lights in Charlotesville, VA (SP!). The 3 of us all decided we'd probably be in to much trouble living there... lots of cuties walking about. Dang, I digress once again. Ok, head on out to Skyline drive... easy, pictureske ride for 105 miles... hit this short little road (rt 6?) .. and I see this sign that I want in my garage. It was the ever loved squiggly line.. with a posted recomended 15mph speed limit *drool*.. now if it weren't for that clutch.... Skyline drive.. I bought the year pass, just incase I want to ride that awesome strech of road again (perhaps a nice picknick with a cute girl? any volunteers?). Once we got up there, the bike traffic started.. goldwings and hardleys galore. Thankfully not a lot of cage traffic.. beautiful views, and a very comfortable temperature. We had to make a few unscheduled stops... one for a bear crossing the road, a couple of deer.. and a skunk that didn't know which way to turn. Actually, I understand that a deer decided to make a break for it inbetween the 2nd and 3rd bike at one point in time. For all the wildlife gazing there.. the 'wildlife' was better at Front Royal (town at the 'top' of Skyline Drive).. camo shorts, more surgical steel implants than the 6billion dollar man (body pierces), bass cars, and enough shades of hair color to put a rainbow to shame. Here ended the fun of the ride... it was pretty much a shot on the superslab to get home. Well, one camakazi bird that flew into one of the tires on the bike infront of me... All in all, a long, very good day of rideing. I managed to make it home by about 9pm. An interesting side thought - if the goverentment ever needed money, they could rent out Skyline drive for a good race. 105 miles, top to bottom... ave speeds arround 100mph, and a long way down should you happen to mess up or start watching the scenery.. Sorry for the long post, but I love motorcycleing, and I love rides... anyone want to take me on another one, or join us on one of ours, let me know.. I'm more than happy to forward information about upcoming rides. They are pretty spontanious though (3 days planning.. if that). Oh, this is Valid for anyone in/arround the D.C./MD/VA area... Ride safe everyone... Brian McCoy bmccoy@XXXXXX 86 VF500f - DEAD clutch From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jul 5 21:19:39 1997 X-Mailer: ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.00 Date: Sat, 05 Jul 97 21:16:20 -0500 From: "Brian McCoy" To: , Subject: Chain lube.. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Another one.. I forgot to mention one little thing, I receintally changed chain/sprockets and wanted to start off right with a good chain lube. Well, somewhere I heard someone praising Honda pro chain lube (in the RED can) and decided to give it a try. Putting this on my chain, letting it sit over-night and going out for this past ride... NOTHING flung off. My wheels only had dust on them. This is a first for me, and I just wanted to pass on my experiences with this... For those of you on the DC-cycles list, you'll remember the post from Glenn about the S100 engine cleaner... my god does it work. I'll shut up now... Brian From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jul 5 22:32:02 1997 Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 02:31:34 GMT From: leavitt@XXXXXX (Mr. Bill) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re[2]: Helmet laws.. >> ... the other day,and the guy said that in VA you're required >> to have 4 square inches of reflective material on your helmet.I've never >> heard of this.Can anyone tell me if this is true? > I know it's true in MD... though noone's said a word to me about it > (getting a license, MSF course, etc....) And I've never heard of anybody being written up for not having it, in VA or MD. I don't know the status of DC. Has anybody ever heard of a citation (or even a written or verbal warning) being issued for this? Personally, I suspect it's a non-issue. At least until you get stopped by some SuperCop with a hair up his butt... Mr. Bill -- Bill Leavitt leavitt@XXXXXX | "Blow it out your ass, motorcycle man! 4 Hondas, 3 Kawasakis & 7 Suzukis +----+ I am THE DEVIL, do you UNDERSTAND?" AMA, ICOA, KTC, Lemans, VJMC, DoD #224 |_____--Frank Zappa, "Titties & Beer" From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jul 5 22:32:10 1997 Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 22:26:43 +45722824 (EDT) From: "Gil M. Nissley" Subject: Re: Helmet laws.. To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sat, 5 Jul 1997, Tim Morrow wrote: > Gil M. Nissley wrote: > > On the subject of helmets...I stopped in to that accessory place in > > Falls Church(can't remember the name,small shop,guy rides a Beemer with > > a dog kennel) ... > Art Crow, runs Rider's Accessory Warehouse. Danke.Also,I remembered the name of the scarf.It's Thermo Cool. > > ... the other day,and the guy said that in VA you're required > > to have 4 square inches of reflective material on your helmet.I've never > > heard of this.Can anyone tell me if this is true? > I can't be 100% sure, but I also have some vestigal memory of this > item being true. If it is, I've never heard of it being enforced. I was just curious.Given the color of my helmet(blaze orange) I wasn't real worried about getting nailed. The official BuellBoy Genes model. gnissley@XXXXXX GATB#1121 HSB#38DT Buell S1 Lightning "The Petty Hate Machine" From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jul 5 22:34:28 1997 From: Barbelle14@XXXXXX Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 22:33:20 -0400 (EDT) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, sbl@XXXXXX Subject: Sharon's 2 answers First of all - *THANKS* so much for all of your help! I got tons of great advice and encouragement. Have no fear, I will never quit riding. :-) A funny thing happened after the class - I sat on my Shadow and everything felt *smaller* than before. I guess that's just from the familiarity I gained at the class. I'm talking engine off, in the storage facility, but she still seemed to fit me better than I remembered. I feel confident that with 6mos-1yr experience, lowering package and bent back handlebars the two of us will eat up a lot of miles together. :-) Okay, maybe move the footpegs back, too. I did find a pair of "Frankenstien" boots for my little feet that give me about an inch and a half. I'm going to ride my new bicycle as much as possible, and ditto a little junkheap motorcycle to learn on. Please don't send bike ads, tho - I'm waiting till after the move for logistic reasons. RE: The move, Jon is going to ride the Ninja down and rent a place. He'll fly back and drive the truck (loaded w/ furniture and Shadow), towing his car. I'll convoy driving my car. We plan to strap the Shadow down and build a little crate around her to protect from falling objects. Thanks again - I'll update you on my progress! Sharon From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jul 5 23:23:23 1997 Date: Sat, 05 Jul 1997 23:25:03 -0700 From: Bryndyn Weiner X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01KIT (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: July 4th ride report. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Brian McCoy wrote: > anyone want to take me on another one, or join us on one of ours, let > me know.. Well, I'm headed out toward "your town", MD (they might be lurking here) at 6 am to serve a summons for a friend. If we don't get shot we'll probably have a nice ride afterwards. Any takers?.... Thought not. Bryndyn Weiner email: rzbean@XXXXXX "It only takes two-strokes to get me excited." RZ350, CB-1 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Jul 6 20:59:36 1997 X-Sender: ranone@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 06 Jul 1997 21:02:29 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Nick & Wendy Ranone Subject: CB Radio I want to get a hand held CB radio for bike to bike communications. Midland makes one that is a 3 in 1. It is a 40 channel CB, 10 channel weather, and an FM radio. Does anyone know of a shop that sells CB radios? There is no listing in the yellow pages under CB or radio that mentions CB's. Nick Ranone 96 Ninja 250R From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Jul 6 22:40:27 1997 X-Sender: gixer@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sun, 06 Jul 1997 22:41:39 -0400 To: Nick & Wendy Ranone From: "Collin T. Fagan" Subject: Re: CB Radio Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970707010229.00664760@pop.erols.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:02 PM 7/6/97 -0400, you wrote: >I want to get a hand held CB radio for bike to bike communications. Midland >makes one that is a 3 in 1. It is a 40 channel CB, 10 channel weather, and >an FM radio. Does anyone know of a shop that sells CB radios? There is no >listing in the yellow pages under CB or radio that mentions CB's. > >Nick Ranone >96 Ninja 250R > It's a little late tonight, but I'll look through my mail for some info I got a while back. The company that sent me the response has CB', 49MHz units, 900Mhz units, FM transcevers, etc. CB is a nice option, but handheld units will be very awkward (even the smallest ones are kind of bulky, and pain in the but to use with helmets) Chaterbox makes a nifty 49Mhz unit, and so does Maxon. The wife and I have two maxon units (49HX) They work pretty well, but the FX model is even better. The HX model we have uses a helmet speaker and boom mic. Above 50 mph the wind noise interferes quite a bit. I noticed that this also happens with the chatterboxes (based on a recent ride with friends) The 49 FX model by maxon uses an earphone mic/speaker. We used these for engine room drills while I was stationed aboard a ship. Even with 2 16 cylinder turbo charged diesels running at 100rpm (and the generators too) transmission through a steel bulkhead was still very loud and clear. With any of the 49Mhz units, the range is limited to a little less than 1/8th mile (even though they'll advertise 1/4 or more....the chatterbox's might come close) they will still be great for group rides, or bikes in pairs. The maxon's also allow a passenger to plug into the main unit. Like I said, I'll dig tomorrow for the web page and e-mail that I have. Collin _________________________________________ Collin and Penny Fagan LTjg, U.S. Coast Guard (202) 366-0067 (work) (703) 356-4279 (home) (703) 816-7255 (pager) http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/5280/ ride.html (ride sheets) bike.html (pics of the bikes) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 7 01:06:11 1997 From: Dark Hacker Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 01:05:43 -0400 (EDT) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, mjlucas@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Helmet laws.. Cc: hacker@XXXXXX From: Mark Lucas Subject: Re: Helmet laws.. Flat out required for anyone on a motorcycle in MD, DC, and VA. and, IMHO, it's crazy to get on a bike without one anyway.... A full face helmet with a chin gaurd is optimal. A couple years ago I low-sided my bike and (among other acrobatics) slid face first on the gravel. If my Shoei didn't have a chin gaurd I'd be talking... MIFLFE MISPH AHN EBBPPLNNG BPLFPHST REN FREW A SHPBRAWW Those skull caps the Harley riders use don't quite cut it. - Hacker From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 7 03:44:35 1997 Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 03:26:46 +45722824 (EDT) From: "Gil M. Nissley" Subject: Re: Helmet laws.. To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In-Reply-To: <199707070505.BAA05231@explorer2.clark.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 7 Jul 1997, Dark Hacker wrote: > A full face helmet with a chin gaurd is optimal. A couple years ago > I low-sided my bike and (among other acrobatics) slid face first on > the gravel. If my Shoei didn't have a chin gaurd I'd be talking... I started wearing a full face after a crash.I flipped my V30 when I hit gravel in an ess curve(the day after I bought it :-{).I rolled in the gravel and broke my wrist,but I was lucky that the faceshield just got scratched and didn't break.After that,I decided a full face might just be a good idea. > Those skull caps the Harley riders use don't quite cut it. Not just Harley riders.We saw a chick at the last PARR run on a 748 Duck wearing a beenie. The thing that cracks me up is the people who wear lots of leather "for protection" and then only wear a beenie helmet. The official BuellBoy Genes model. gnissley@XXXXXX GATB#1121 HSB#38DT Buell S1 Lighting "The Petty Hate Machine" From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 7 07:05:38 1997 X-Sender: ranone@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 07 Jul 1997 07:08:10 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Nick & Wendy Ranone Subject: Re: CB Radio I rode up the Geo Wash Pkwy yesterday and saw a winger with a handheld CB mounted on his handlbar. I think I could find a way to mount one on my little bike. I want a CB so I can communicate when I am alone, which is my usual in riding. Plus I already have one in my truck. Nick From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 7 08:30:45 1997 Date: Mon, 07 Jul 1997 08:29:54 -0700 From: Bill Schmidt X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nick & Wendy Ranone CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: CB Radio Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nick & Wendy Ranone wrote: > > I want to get a hand held CB radio for bike to bike communications. Midland > makes one that is a 3 in 1. It is a 40 channel CB, 10 channel weather, and > an FM radio. Does anyone know of a shop that sells CB radios? There is no > listing in the yellow pages under CB or radio that mentions CB's. > > Nick Ranone > 96 Ninja 250R I think that Radio Shack sells a similar model. You might also want to check out Cycle Comm at: http://www.stans.com/cyclecomm/ In addirion to other products they have a unit that connects to a 5 pin DIN plug for use with a headset for hands-free operation. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 7 08:46:35 1997 X-Sender: cnorloff@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 07 Jul 1997 07:54:45 -0400 To: From: Chris Norloff Subject: Re: Helmet laws.. In-Reply-To: <9707038679.AA867954682@smtplink.micros.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > Just curious (read - sitting at work, borred), what's the helmet > law for passangers in MD, VA, and DC? Required, required under 18, > not required? Not that I've ever had anyone on the back of a > motorcycle... and I wouldn't let anyone ride with me without the same > level of protection I require for myself.. DOT-approved helmets for all people, in vehicles with 3 wheels or fewer in contact with the road. Chris Norloff From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 7 08:55:47 1997 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 08:38:01 -0400 From: Dave_Choat@XXXXXX (Dave Choat) Subject: Re: K1200RS spotted in Silver Spring To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Yep, I picked it up on Wednesday night, and it has 91 on the odometer right now. I will drop a ride report off as soon as I get a chance to ride it. So far, it is a very solid and very strong bike. I am still getting used to it, so it feels a mite bigger than my RF900R does. More later. I have one of the yellow ones with checkers, for those who didn't know. It looks very fancy. Dave _______________________________________________________________________________ Subject: K1200RS spotted in Silver Spring From: KLThomas77@XXXXXX at ddn Date: 3/7/1997 3:15 PM Hey, y'all- I saw a K1200RS on University Blvd today. Was that one of us? Later Kevin From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 7 09:06:16 1997 Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 09:04:40 -0400 (EDT) From: "Clark E. Dorman" X-Sender: dorman@blackbird To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Me, my bike, and friends, on Rt. 66 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Greetings, Did any of you see four motorcycles parked on the shoulder of inbound Rt. 66 near Manassas? That was me; specifically, that was me, my girlfriend, and three other CAMS. However, it was my bike that caused it. Here's my story. We had spent a wonderful day riding around. It was my girlfriend's third time ever on a motorcycle, and the first time I've ridden for extended periods with someone on the back. We had gotten separated from the CAMS and it was possibly a good thing, as I wanted to go nice and slow, so as not to scare her (she had warned me). We rode out to Front Royal on Rt. 55, had lunch, and rode up Skyline drive to Rt 211 where we turned back towards D.C. By sheer coincidence, we found the CAMS group at the bottom of Rt. 211, and rode back with several of them. Well, everything was fine, and we were well on our way back, but I was a little concerned about gas. I'm sure I would have been fine (just about 100 miles since the fill-up, I normally go 150+ on a tank), except I had another person and had been climbing on Skyline. So I was watching it carefully, checking at every stop, and ready to hit the reserve and find the first exit. But, I was confident that I had plenty of gas to make it home without the reserve. So there we were in the middle lane of Rt. 66, when the bike starts to lose power. I think, "yup, there it goes, I'm an idiot". A quick switch to reserve doesn't do anything for the power though, and the bike starts to feels a little "different". I start signalling right, letting off the gas, and the back end starts acting real funny. In fact, it feels like it wants to go first, and have the front wheel trail. I'm trying to keep it in a straight line, trying to move over, and fortunately John (CAMS president, running sweeper) convinces the speeding jerk trying to pass on the right to let us get over. By the time we got over there, I had almost no control. I had my girlfriend release the deathgrip she had on me and we searched for the damage. It was not the gas; I had _plenty_ of gas. I did have a three inch nail in my rear tire. The bead was broken on the tire and the hole was big enough that we did not try using the fix-a-flat that John was carrying. We broke out the cell phone, and called my friend with a truck. We spent the next hour waving at motorcyclists, telling stories, and waiting for my friend. A couple of the motorcyclists we saw slowed down to see if we needed some help but we waived them on. If you were one of them, thank you very much. The remainder of the day was, by comparison, uneventful. What did I learn? 1. Riding in groups is good. If nothing else, you have someone to talk to while waiting and to calm your nerves; and in this case, heaven only knows what would have happened if John was not in the back. 2. Any time, any where, anything can go wrong. Fortunately, I was not too tired and was paying attention and was not driving over my limit. Keep your wits even in an emergency situation. 3. Carry some tools. My BMW has a kit, but the one I was riding does not. Without the other people there, I would not have been able to do anything. In this case, it didn't matter much, but it might have. 4. Tell your rider what to do and how to do it. We had practiced riding a little before the trip, so that was good. She did not panic and that was better. She did hold on tight, but considering the situation and the way the bike was bucking, that was better than not tight enough. 5. Carry a cell phone, _and_ some phone numbers. I spent way too much time on directory assistance figuring out people's numbers. 6. Consider stopping for a stopped motorcycle. There are lots of if's but _if_ we were alone and either the cell phone did not work or we were out of range, then we would have been screwed without some help. It's a long walk to an exit in boots. That's it. Thanks for letting me get all this off my chest. Amazingly enough, my girlfriend wants me to fix the bike so we can go riding again. -- Clark From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 7 15:22:31 1997 From: FakeTree@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 15:21:05 -0400 (EDT) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Think about it... got this from a moto buddy in chicago. sorry for the downer. --------------------- Forwarded message: From: MARK.R.KITCHELL@XXXXXX (Mark R. Kitchell ) To: faketree@XXXXXX Date: 97-07-07 15:03:45 EDT A Serious Event Act I Fathers day 1997 was blessed with beautiful weather. The wind, though strong, kept the fog off the hills and the roads were dry. The weather and roads called to the core nature in all of us to go out and play, be it 4-wheels, 2-wheels or by foot. Act II "J" was having a great day. Single dad to two kids, he had received his gifts and counted his blessings. His two kids were well, he had a loving family, loving girlfriend, was gainfully employed and a new set of wheels. "J" had been riding the hills and the area that circles San Jose for over 12 years. His latest stead was a beautiful cruiser (not a Harley), polished, comfortable seat just made for a cruise through the hills. "J" decided to put some miles on the bike and spent the first part of the afternoon doing just that. So enriched by the days activities he chose to make a trip down Highway 9 rather than go home. He wanted to checkout the Boulder Creek scene. Act III "K" also heard the call of the open road. He left his home early on Fathers Day in search of other Sport Bike Riders to share the experience. "K" had been riding for a while and had recently completed DP school. He was ready to pace the pack. The unofficial collection of riders split up into three groups. The first group were literally born to these roads. They set a quick pace through the area, working around cars and other obstacles to reach the next stop. The second group consisted of two types of riders; those who wished they were in the first group and are working hard to get there; and those who respect those who are ahead of them, but are comfortable where they are. Group three was out for the ride. They knew who was ahead of them and knew they would all be together at the next stop. Most of these riders have been riding together for a very long time. Their sixth sense is tuned with the experience of knowing each others moves before they make them. Now, the unknown factor, the new guy, the occasional visitor. He ignores the dynamics of the group. He believes he is a good rider because he is fast. He will spend the day proving it to himself and to anyone he can pass. As the day progresses, the dynamics change to speed first, skill second, and safety third. He is out to boost his ego, not the camaraderie and a beautiful spring day. Act IV The group with "K" still among them gases up in Boulder Creek and makes the final run up Highway 9. Everyone resumes their position. "K" is working it hard to better position himself in group two and maybe even glance at group one. "J" starts down Highway 9. He passes 236 and enters the tighter section of 9. "J" becomes aware of a fast moving group of sport bikes approaching in the other lane. He positions his bike to the right of his lane to increase the distance between himself and the approaching swarm. They pass and "J" moves a little from the white line to position for the upcoming turn. If approaching the turn from Boulder Creek, it is the right hander decreasing radius of 25 mph. "J" is not yet at the apex. "K" enters the turn. "J" approaches the apex. "K" makes an error in judgment. Whether it is too much speed, too much drive to compete, too little skill or a combination of all of the above is unknown at this time. "K" crosses the double yellow just after the apex, going wide into the other lane. "J" sees him and attempts to brake and move. His hand never makes it to the brake lever. Act V By appearance and accounts, the front rotor and wheel of "Ks" bike directly impact with the lower portion of "Js" leg. "J" is thrown and the bike spins to the side of the road resting under the guard rail. "Ks" bike is down in the middle of the road. Another rider and myself arrive at the scene. Jumping from the bikes instructions are given to slow traffic and get someone to call for help. The man riding behind me is an EMT. Using "Js" shirt he goes to work on the leg. The damage is such that there is a four-inch pool of blood. His sneaker and sock are missing down the road. Bones have been broken in places where his foot is perfectly straight with his leg. Flesh is hanging from the wound, muscles are exposed and so is the bone. "J" screams in pain and frustration. The EMT and another man are holding the leg up, compressing the wound to stop the bleeding. I was attempting to lend emotional support to "J". The gravity of the situation hits "K" hard. Twenty-five minutes later help arrives and within the hour of impact "J" is flown to a hospital. Act VI The police take statements. The bikes are towed to storage. Tears are shed as the gravity of what has happened hits home. "J" spends several hours in surgery. Everyone examines their priorities and how they behave on the road. Conclusion Today "J" will have his foot amputated six inches above the ankle. He was hit in such a way that three inches of bone are missing and the ankle was destroyed. There are no options for the active 45-year-old man. We do not own the road, no one does. We see people putting speed and ego over skill all the time. We say nothing, we dont want to interfere, in case of angering someone. Well, it is time to get angry and stop trouble before it starts. We, as a collective body of sport riders, have crossed the line. It is time to control the urge. Put aside the need to stroke our egos by carelessness and speed for the safety of ourselves and others. It is time to make the road safe and enjoyable again. "J" received a pair of shoes from his children for Fathers Day. The bad news he wont be wearing them for a long time. The good news he will be wearing them some day. Safe riding to all. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 7 16:14:31 1997 From: KLThomas77@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 16:13:18 -0400 (EDT) To: vfr@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: various parts fiche, free, no vfr Hey, y'all- I've been scrounging old fiche at Cycles USA again, and I have a bunch for you. Some of you placed special requests last time. Those I have been able to get will recieve a personal email notification from me. Those I couldn't get, I still have your request, so no need to send it again. If you want something that's not here, and it's from Honda, Kawasaki, or Suzuki, let me know, and I'll keep an eye out for it. These are free, 1st come 1st served. It's not worth you sending me 29 cents each, but if one person wanted to send me $10, that'd be fine, and then everybody would owe you a favor. Tell your friends, or the other lists you're on. If you want to patronize the place that makes this giveaway possible, shop at Cycles USA in Kensington MD. Parts guy Steve Price will take good care of you. Tell him I sent you. 301-460-1600. They will ship to you. Without further ado, here's the list. HONDA---CBR600F2 91-93, CBR600 F2&3 91-96, CBR600F3 97, Magna 94-97, CB750 91-96, PC800 89-96, CBR900RR 93-95, CBR1000F 87-88, CBR1100XX 97, V65 Magna 83-86, GL1500 92-93 SUZUKI---GSXR750W 93-95, GSXR1100W 93-96, GSXR750 96 KAWASAKI---ZX6 96, ZX6R 95 95-96, ZX9R 94-95, ZX10 90, Concours 92-93 92-94 95-96, GPZ1100 95 95-96, ZX11 90-92 90-93 93-95 Later Kevin From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 7 23:12:47 1997 From: kbass@XXXXXX (Ken Bass) To: "Gil M. Nissley" Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Helmet laws.. Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 03:05:18 GMT In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.01/32.397 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In VA: M-' 46.2-910 Motorcyclist to wear helmets, etc.; certain sales prohibited; penalty A. Every person operating a motorcycle shall wear a face shield, safety glasses or goggles, or have his motorcycle equipped with safety glass or a windshield at all times while operating the vehicle, and operators and any passengers thereon shall wear protective helmets. Operators and passengers riding on motorcycles with wheels of eight inches or less in diameter or in three-wheeled motorcycles which have nonremovable roofs, windshields and enclosed bodies shall not be required to wear protective helmets. The windshields, face shields, glasses or goggles, and protective helmets required by this section shall meet or exceed the standards and specifications of the Snell Memorial Foundation, the American National Standards Institute, Inc., or the federal Department of Transportation. Failure to wear a face shield, safety glasses or goggles, or protective helmets shall not constitute negligence per se in any civil proceeding. No motorcycle operator shall use any face shield, safety glasses or goggles, or have his motorcycle equipped with safety glass or a windshield unless of a type either (i) approved by the Superintendent prior to July 1, 1996, or (ii) that meets or exceeds the standards and specifications of the Snell Memorial Foundation, the American National Standards Institute, Inc., or the federal Department of Transportation and is marked in accordance with such standards. B. It shall be unlawful to sell or offer for sale, for highway use in Virginia, any protective helmet that fails to meet or exceed any standard as provided in the foregoing provisions of this section. Any violation of this subsection shall constitute a Class 4 misdemeanor. -- kbass@XXXXXX Software Engineering Consultant VROC #1, '96 Vulcan 1500 Classic, Jefferson, MD From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 7 23:27:21 1997 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 03:27:14 GMT From: leavitt@XXXXXX (Mr. Bill) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Helmet laws.. Dark Hacker writes: > Those skull caps the Harley riders use don't quite cut it. Ah yes, the Harley-Yamika(tm)... :-) The "really" good ones are marked "Novelty Item - Not Approved for Road Use" or something of the like. I see a lot of them being used all the same at Bike Week, et al. Mr. Bill -- Bill Leavitt leavitt@XXXXXX | "Blow it out your ass, motorcycle man! 4 Hondas, 3 Kawasakis & 7 Suzukis +----+ I am THE DEVIL, do you UNDERSTAND?" AMA, ICOA, KTC, Lemans, VJMC, DoD #224 |_____--Frank Zappa, "Titties & Beer" From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 7 23:49:27 1997 Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 23:38:05 +45722824 (EDT) From: "Gil M. Nissley" Subject: Poker Run Sunday To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hey all, There's going to be a poker run this Sunday(13th) in Alexandria. It starts at the Roy Rogers on Route 1.It's sponsored by ABATE and you can call (703)765-9341. The official BuellBoy Genes model. gnissley@XXXXXX GATB#1121 HSB#38DT Buell S1 Lightning "The Petty Hate Machine" "Auto-Darwin the ignorant." D. Sorenson From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 8 08:42:56 1997 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 08:16:56 -0400 From: Randy.Chartier@XXXXXX (Randy Chartier) Subject: Re[2]: Helmet laws.. To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, "Gil M. Nissley" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part How would they be able to put on the required 4 square inches of reflected material???? Randy ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Helmet laws.. Author: "Gil M. Nissley" at Internet Date: 7/7/97 3:26 AM On Mon, 7 Jul 1997, Dark Hacker wrote: > A full face helmet with a chin gaurd is optimal. A couple years ago > I low-sided my bike and (among other acrobatics) slid face first on > the gravel. If my Shoei didn't have a chin gaurd I'd be talking... I started wearing a full face after a crash.I flipped my V30 when I hit gravel in an ess curve(the day after I bought it :-{).I rolled in the gravel and broke my wrist,but I was lucky that the faceshield just got scratched and didn't break.After that,I decided a full face might just be a good idea. > Those skull caps the Harley riders use don't quite cut it. Not just Harley riders.We saw a chick at the last PARR run on a 748 Duck wearing a beenie. The thing that cracks me up is the people who wear lots of leather "for protection" and then only wear a beenie helmet. The official BuellBoy Genes model. gnissley@XXXXXX GATB#1121 HSB#38DT Buell S1 Lighting "The Petty Hate Machine" From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 8 08:51:21 1997 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 08:55:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: squeaks@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: leavitt@XXXXXX (Mr. Bill), dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Squeakers Subject: Re: Helmet laws.. At 03:27 AM 7/8/97 GMT, Mr. Bill wrote: >Dark Hacker writes: >> Those skull caps the Harley riders use don't quite cut it. > >Ah yes, the Harley-Yamika(tm)... :-) The "really" good ones are marked >"Novelty Item - Not Approved for Road Use" or something of the like. I >see a lot of them being used all the same at Bike Week, et al. > Well, MY helmet is a one of a kind! Yeah, it started out as a plain, ordinary "novelty item- not approved ordinary skull cap",(booorrriinnnggg) but it went through a transformation! We went to the Rennaissance Fair when it was out here, and I got a "black leather barabarian mask" and "devils horns" and a "black leather dragons claws collar". We attached the mask to the upper front and top. The horns to the VERY top, and the claw collar all around the bottom back. So, I wear that with a black baseball hat under it, so the black bill is sticking out like a visor(cant see the rest of the hat) and my black no see thru gargoyle sunglasses. Perfect! Ive never seen ANYONE else with a helmet like mine. Now, if you're thinkin my "barbarian look" is scaring people away from me, and giving folks more ammunition for their anti biker attitudes....... nope. I cant TELL you how many non bikers have come up to me (even OLD people running across the parking lot!) just to see my helmet and joke around with me. Maybe if I was taller........ Squeakers From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 8 09:09:26 1997 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 08:52:15 -0400 From: Dave_Choat@XXXXXX (Dave Choat) Subject: Re[2]: Helmet laws.. To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Dark Hacker writes: > Those skull caps the Harley riders use don't quite cut it. Ah yes, the Harley-Yamika(tm)... :-) The "really" good ones are marked "Novelty Item - Not Approved for Road Use" or something of the like. I see a lot of them being used all the same at Bike Week, et al. Please , do not defame the Yarmulke (pronounced yamika) by comparing it to such shoddy, wierd objects as those hair beanies worn by the helmet haters.:) A yarmulke would be an improvement... Dave David Choat, Visionary '95 Suzuki RF900R Email: dchoat@XXXXXX '97 BMW K1200RS It doesn't take all kinds of people, we just have them. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 8 09:40:28 1997 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 08:27:04 -0400 From: Randy.Chartier@XXXXXX (Randy Chartier) Subject: Re[2]: Helmet laws.. To: , Chris Norloff Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part If they have to be DOT, then how do the skull caps comply????? Also, why doesn't the authorities ever enforce this law??????? RAndy ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Helmet laws.. Author: Chris Norloff at Internet Date: 7/7/97 7:54 AM > Just curious (read - sitting at work, borred), what's the helmet > law for passangers in MD, VA, and DC? Required, required under 18, > not required? Not that I've ever had anyone on the back of a > motorcycle... and I wouldn't let anyone ride with me without the same > level of protection I require for myself.. DOT-approved helmets for all people, in vehicles with 3 wheels or fewer in contact with the road. Chris Norloff From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 8 09:56:09 1997 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 9:36:43 -0400 From: "Aki.Damme" Subject: Re: Helmet laws.. To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19970708085314.0bcfc5f2@pop.erols.com> X400-Mts-Identifier: [ /P=CITICORP/A=MCI/C=US/ ; MTASO90002US 11HIPN00000KG ] X-Mailer: Worldtalk (4.0.2-p8)/MIME ...ahhh..so what you're saying is that now it'll be *alot* easier to identify your body at the morgue when your "cute" helmet doesn't protect you the first time you hit your head on the pavement.... > X-Sender: squeaks@XXXXXX > > At 03:27 AM 7/8/97 GMT, Mr. Bill wrote: > >Dark Hacker writes: > >> Those skull caps the Harley riders use don't quite cut it. > > > >Ah yes, the Harley-Yamika(tm)... :-) The "really" good ones are marked > >"Novelty Item - Not Approved for Road Use" or something of the like. I > >see a lot of them being used all the same at Bike Week, et al. > > > > Well, MY helmet is a one of a kind! Yeah, it started out as a plain, > ordinary "novelty item- not approved ordinary skull cap",(booorrriinnnggg) > but it went through a transformation! We went to the Rennaissance Fair when > it was out here, and I got a "black leather barabarian mask" and "devils > horns" and a "black leather dragons claws collar". We attached the mask to > the upper front and top. The horns to the VERY top, and the claw collar all > around the bottom back. So, I wear that with a black baseball hat under it, > so the black bill is sticking out like a visor(cant see the rest of the hat) > and my black no see thru gargoyle sunglasses. Perfect! Ive never seen ANYONE > else with a helmet like mine. Now, if you're thinkin my "barbarian look" is > scaring people away from me, and giving folks more ammunition for their anti > biker attitudes....... nope. I cant TELL you how many non bikers > have come up to me (even OLD people running across the parking lot!) just to > see my helmet and joke around with me. Maybe if I was taller........ > > > Squeakers > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 8 09:59:10 1997 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 10:03:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: squeaks@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Randy.Chartier@XXXXXX (Randy Chartier), , Chris Norloff From: Squeakers Subject: Re: Re[2]: Helmet laws.. At 08:27 AM 7/8/97 -0400, Randy Chartier wrote: > If they have to be DOT, then how do the skull caps comply????? Also, > why doesn't the authorities ever enforce this law??????? > > RAndy > They "have" to be DOT, but Ive rarely seen it enforced. Its very obvious that my helmet is in no way, shape, or form DOT, and Ive been looked at by MANY cops. Even followed by a few for a while. Ive yet to be pulled over or ticketed for my helmet. Maybe most cops realize that the "Big Brother is Watching" helmet law is an inane, stupid one. Hopefully, soon to be repealed. Squeakers From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 8 10:04:55 1997 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 14:04:50 GMT From: leavitt@XXXXXX (Mr. Bill) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Helmet laws.. dh == Dark Hacker wrote: dh> Those skull caps the Harley riders use don't quite cut it. mr.b == Mr. Bill (leavitt@XXXXXX) quips: mr.b> Ah yes, the Harley-Yamika(tm)... :-) The "really" good ones are mr.b> marked "Novelty Item - Not Approved for Road Use" or something of mr.b> the like. I see a lot of them being used all the same at Bike Week, mr.b> et al. s == Squeakers replies: s> Well, MY helmet is a one of a kind! Yeah, it started out as a plain, s> ordinary "novelty item- not approved ordinary skull cap",(booorrriinnnggg) s> but it went through a transformation! We went to the Rennaissance Fair when s> it was out here, and I got a "black leather barabarian mask" and "devils s> horns" and a "black leather dragons claws collar". We attached the mask to s> the upper front and top. The horns to the VERY top, and the claw collar all s> around the bottom back. ... No, this sounds more like a 1/2 helmet, of which DOT approved versions DO exist. I'm thinking more of the real itty-bitty "helmets" that are about the size of a teacup saucer. Good for keeping the sunburn off the balding patch, but that's about it. They're not NEARLY big enough to modify as you describe. s> Now, if you're thinkin my "barbarian look" is scaring people away from me, s> and giving folks more ammunition for their anti biker attitudes....... s> nope. I cant TELL you how many non bikers have come up to me (even s> OLD people running across the parking lot!) just to see my helmet and joke s> around with me. Sounds like a neat fashion accessory, tho' I pity you if you ever fly off the bike while wearing it and land on your noodle... :-( Of course, I'd be very tempted to get an old Puddin' Bowl helmet and goggles once I get my retro cafe' racer done. Those helmets aren't DOT approved, either. s> Maybe if I was taller........ Try some of those old '70s "KISS" boots. You know, the REALLY high platforms with gargoyles on them? They'd fit right in with the headgear. However, it might make it a bit tough to shift unless you have a heel/toe setup... dc == Dave_Choat@XXXXXX (Dave Choat) corrects: dc> Please , do not defame the Yarmulke (pronounced yamika) by dc> comparing it to such shoddy, wierd objects as those dc> hair beanies worn by the helmet haters.:) Sorry, I'm only an Honorary Hebrew (a *very* long story :-) The helmets that *REALLY* crack me up are the half helmets with the fake pony tail on the back, so that Steve Stockbroker the rubbie (Rich Urban Biker) can look like a 1%'er on the weekends. What a laff! Mr. Bill -- Bill Leavitt leavitt@XXXXXX | "Blow it out your ass, motorcycle man! 4 Hondas, 3 Kawasakis & 7 Suzukis +----+ I am THE DEVIL, do you UNDERSTAND?" AMA, ICOA, KTC, Lemans, VJMC, DoD #224 |_____--Frank Zappa, "Titties & Beer" From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 8 10:09:40 1997 X-Sender: cnorloff@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 10:10:03 -0400 To: From: Chris Norloff Subject: Re: Re[2]: Helmet laws.. In-Reply-To: <000DCDF5.1950@ccmail.irs.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:27 AM 7/8/97 -0400, Randy Chartier wrote: > If they have to be DOT, then how do the skull caps comply????? They don't. > Also, > why doesn't the authorities ever enforce this law??????? I believe it's enforced seldom, and then as merely a reason to pull over and/or to cite a biker that's doing something else undesirable. The DOT-approval has hit a number of interesting snags, exploited by the anti-helmet and anti-helmet-law folks. In Maryland, the state legislation specifies that the state will provide a list of approved helmets. There is no such list. A friend has successfully used this to appeal a ticket for riding without a helmet. In addition, DOT testing involves the manufacturer testing only one helmet (of any size) in order to certify an entire manufacturing line of helmets. The manufacturer does not have to present any test evidence to DOT or to have any DOT witnesses -- the manufacturer merely states that the helmets have complied with the DOT regulation. Thus, one particular helmet cannot be said to be DOT-approved or not approved, and a helmet that is not the same size as the one tested for DOT approval cannot be said to actually having been tested at all. (The size factor comes in because while a helmet manufacturer might sell a helmet in 4 or 5 different "sizes", the actual fiberglass shell might come in only 2 or 3 sizes, and the inner foam lining takes up the extra space -- thus different sized helmets of the same model can have different distributions of shock-absorbing foam). A friend in California has used the lack of specific DOT approval to challenge several riding-without-a-helmet tickets. Chris Norloff >______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ >Subject: Re: Helmet laws.. >Author: Chris Norloff at Internet >Date: 7/7/97 7:54 AM > > >> Just curious (read - sitting at work, borred), what's the helmet >> law for passangers in MD, VA, and DC? Required, required under 18, >> not required? Not that I've ever had anyone on the back of a >> motorcycle... and I wouldn't let anyone ride with me without the same >> level of protection I require for myself.. > >DOT-approved helmets for all people, in vehicles with 3 wheels or fewer in >contact with the road. > >Chris Norloff > > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 8 10:20:00 1997 X-Sender: cnorloff@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 10:14:18 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Chris Norloff Subject: Re: Helmet laws.. In-Reply-To: <199707081404.OAA00796@nemo.cs.umd.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >The helmets that *REALLY* crack me up are the half helmets with the fake >pony tail on the back, so that Steve Stockbroker the rubbie (Rich Urban >Biker) can look like a 1%'er on the weekends. What a laff! > >Mr. Bill How about those helmets with wigs? They're real helmets, and make you look like a mountain man, or maybe a 70's throwback with BIG hair. Chris Norloff From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 8 10:35:49 1997 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 10:39:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: squeaks@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Aki.Damme" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Squeakers Subject: Re: Helmet laws.. At 09:36 AM 7/8/97 -0400, Aki.Damme wrote: > >...ahhh..so what you're saying is that now it'll be *alot* easier to identify >your body at the morgue when your "cute" helmet doesn't protect you the >first time you hit your head on the pavement.... > > Oh, puhleeze! give it a rest. Whether or not I have on a "real" helmet will be a moot point in a bike wreck. I mean, considering that if the wreck was bad enough to put me in a morgue, the REST of my body would be in a rather broken, sorry mess. Ive seen all the arguments concerning "if he/she had only had on a helmet" AND "if only he/she had only NOT had on a helmet". Its a personal choice. Or rather, SHOULD be. But DONT try and vomit that stale, old "helmets save" garbage at me. Theres too many variables. Too many opposing statistics. Tell you what. I figure this makes us BOTH easy to identify at the morgue. They can recognize ME by my cute helmet and mangled body. They can recognize YOU by your "saved" head and mangled body. Ok? Squeakers From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 8 10:53:34 1997 From: jimi@XXXXXX X-Authentication-Warning: explorer2.clark.net: jimi owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 10:53:07 -0400 (EDT) To: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Helmet laws.. In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19970708103746.34b75e56@pop.erols.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 8 Jul 1997, Squeakers wrote: > Too many opposing statistics. Tell you what. I figure this makes us BOTH > easy to identify at the morgue. They can recognize ME by my cute helmet and > mangled body. They can recognize YOU by your "saved" head and mangled body. Ok? I for one, would not currently be here if I had been wearing a "joke" helmet. I had a very bad accident, air-lifted, the whole deal. Even with the extensive injuries, it was the fact that my helmet took the impact of the guard-rail instead of my head, which allowed me to be alert enough to give the EMS crew a phone number to call for my family, and gave me that extra edge while trying to survive. If you saw the helmet I was wearing, and what it did for me, you wouldn't go around wearing a "joke" helmet. I agree that it is your right to decide, but for me, and my family, it is not a decision I make light-heartedly. If it only gave you a 1% chance of surviving an accident, wouldn't it be worth it to you and your family? I hope they never have to grow up wondering what happened to Mommy. Take care, -jimi From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 8 11:04:01 1997 X-Sender: gixer@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 11:05:55 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "Collin T. Fagan" Subject: Helmet argument Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Before the battle rages on, I urge you folks to please take your debate on the helmet issue private. I've come to realize that it's like any other major social issue: everyone has their opinion, and no matter what we say about it on this list, that opinion is not going to get changed, so please fight with each other privately or in the courtroom with your legislative representative. CT _________________________________________ Collin and Penny Fagan LTjg, U.S. Coast Guard (202) 366-0067 (work) (703) 356-4279 (home) (703) 816-7255 (pager) http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/5280/ ride.html (ride sheets) bike.html (pics of the bikes) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 8 11:08:34 1997 Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 10:59 -0400 (EDT) From: "Todd B Peer" To: Subject: Re: Re[2]: Helmet laws.. X-Mailer: MailRoom v2.1e In Maryland, the state legislation specifies that the state will provide a list of approved helmets. There is no such list. A friend has successfully used this to appeal a ticket for riding without a helmet. At a recent event hosted by DC ABATE, the (president?) of MD ABATE spoke for a few moments on this very issue. It's true that MD says it will provide a list of approved helmets, but as of current date none exists. I believe the legislature, in their rush to suck federal butt didn't really think the wording through. Now they are stuck between a rock and a hard decision. If they do provide a list, and a motorcyclist is seriously injured or dies as a result of a faulty 'approved' helmet, the state is wide open to suit. On the other hand, the law is not enforcable because there is no helmet specification provision. Bottom line to all that cherish freedom over good sense: Don't wear your helmet in MD and you'll get away with it, unless you don't by crashing your gray matter everywhere. Have fun. Todd From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 8 11:14:38 1997 From: jcarver@XXXXXX Original-From: jcarver@XXXXXX Original-From: "Carver, John" To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" Subject: Helmets!! Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 11:15:01 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Arguing over whether or not to wear a helmet is a BIG repeat BIG waste of time. It is a personal choice. If you think it saves lives wear one, if you do not, do not wear one. Unfortunately, the government does not think the public can make a choice for themselves. I now must pose the question, who is the government? YOU!!! There have been many excuses for not repealing the helmet laws, motorcycle insurance rates will go up etc. That's just what they are - excuses. Our elected officials have too much time on their hands. They should be improving our lives/government instead of invading our lives and freedoms with ludicrous laws. If you do not choose to wear a helmet, or seatbelt for that matter, who is it going to hurt? You!!! Therefore, those officials who want to generate money by making up yet another law to nail people with, and cost us time and money should be impeached. If insurance rates would go up if the helmet law was repealed, then why don't insurance companies check on the type of helmet their clients wear? Why stop there? Do you wear leathers? Stop wasting your time discussing this issue and help to repeal this revenue- for- towns, law!!! Just my .10 . . . --John From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 8 11:20:44 1997 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 11:17:42 -0400 From: "Aki.Damme" Subject: Re: Helmet laws.. Cc: "Aki.Damme" To: squeaks@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19970708103746.34b75e56@pop.erols.com> X400-Mts-Identifier: [ /P=CITICORP/A=MCI/C=US/ ; MTASO90002US 11HKqg00003gm ] X-Mailer: Worldtalk (4.0.2-p8)/MIME ...tell that to my friend that *died* because he suffered a massive had injury that would *not* have been more than a concussion if he wore a helmet...and *that* came from the coroners office...and incidently, his *bodily* injuries (e.g. below his neck) were minor, but he flipped on his head and the pavement tore off half the side of his head... you can argue all you want about how it's *your* choice if you want to wear a helmet but obviously you have no idea what's it like to hit your head on pavement with no protection. *I* personally have been in an accident that would of PERMANENTLY disabled me had I not wore a helmet...maybe (in some states) the choice is yours and I personally think it should remain that way but everytime I look my insurance premium, I'm reminded that *my* insurance rates are higher because there's people out there that feel themselves "invincible" but ended up either dead or seriously hurt. How much is your head worth? Personally, I don't think there's a helmet made that's worth what I have above my neck, not to mention the fact that the simple act of putting on a good helmet might prevent my death and the pain and sorrow my friends and family will have to endure because *I* wanted to exercise my "freedom" of either wearing or not wearing a helmet. > X-Sender: squeaks@XXXXXX > > At 09:36 AM 7/8/97 -0400, Aki.Damme wrote: > > > >...ahhh..so what you're saying is that now it'll be *alot* easier to identify > >your body at the morgue when your "cute" helmet doesn't protect you the > >first time you hit your head on the pavement.... > > > > > Oh, puhleeze! give it a rest. Whether or not I have on a "real" helmet > will be a moot point in a bike wreck. I mean, considering that if the wreck > was bad enough to put me in a morgue, the REST of my body would be in a > rather broken, sorry mess. Ive seen all the arguments concerning "if he/she > had only had on a helmet" AND "if only he/she had only NOT had on a > helmet". Its a personal choice. Or rather, SHOULD be. But DONT try and vomit > that stale, old "helmets save" garbage at me. Theres too many variables. > Too many opposing statistics. Tell you what. I figure this makes us BOTH > easy to identify at the morgue. They can recognize ME by my cute helmet and > mangled body. They can recognize YOU by your "saved" head and mangled body. Ok? > > Squeakers > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 8 11:22:59 1997 From: sbeck@XXXXXX X-Lotus-FromDomain: ISI To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 11:24:59 -0400 Subject: Helmet Laws Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Before the battle rages on, I urge you folks to please take your debate on the helmet issue private. I've come to realize that it's like any other major social issue: everyone has their opinion, and no matter what we say about it on this list, that opinion is not going to get changed, so please fight with each other privately or in the courtroom with your legislative representative. CT _________________________________________ Collin and Penny Fagan I agree 100 percent on this. Take this s#itstorm elsewhere. It's bean beaten to death over and over again and again. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 8 11:30:57 1997 Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 11:22 -0400 (EDT) From: "Todd B Peer" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Helmet laws.. X-Mailer: MailRoom v2.1e ...ahhh..so what you're saying is that now it'll be *alot* easier to identify your body at the morgue when your "cute" helmet doesn't protect you the first time you hit your head on the pavement.... Oh, puhleeze! give it a rest. Whether or not I have on a "real" helmet will be a moot point in a bike wreck. I mean, considering that if the wreck was bad enough to put me in a morgue..... Geez, I've seen this issue turn to flames so many times and on other lists it becomes boring. I've also seen how the flamers seem a little more agreeable when they meet their adversaries face to face. You are off topic here Aki(?). We were talking helmet laws and the enforcement thereoff, beginning with the 4-sq inch reflectives. Apparently Squeakers has been deemed by those who enforce the law, NOT lawless. At least for now. And to Squeakers and anyone else who feel the need to toss some gasoline on, think first. Helmet laws seem to be one of those issues that will never go away, and always evoke strong feelings one way or the other. It is divisive and stupid. I'm actually suprised it took so long before someone stepped in and burned someone else. Now, How about those neato clips you can add to your strap to make them easy on/off. I have one, and have been told they are unsafe in a crash. Anybody have any facts they'd be willing to share? Are they legal? Todd From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 8 11:33:33 1997 X-Mailer: ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.00 Date: Tue, 08 Jul 97 11:27:34 -0500 From: "Brian McCoy" To: Subject: Re[2]: Helmet laws.. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit People..... please, This is a dead issue... everyone's got an opinion about it... and noone's going to easily change someone else opinion (at least not throught e-mail). It's all personal... I used to ride without any protective gear at all... fine, my choice. I happened to decided that I'd like to wear it.. again, fine, my choice... I've been in a few wrecks where the gear that I now wear faithfully has saved a lot of pain and damage, for me.. I made the right choice. As far as helmets go, because of my acidents, I'm dead faithfull to them... I smacked the chin of my full face against the ground hard enough to smash it in.. that's all the proof or reason I need to wear a full face. I DON'T think that helmets should be forced on anyone... but at the same respect, I will not pitty anyone that isn't wearing the right gear. Please let us drop this whole thing now... or take it private. Ride safe everyone... and lets enjoy the reason we ride, and continue to do it for years to come.. Brian McCoy bmccoy@XXXXXX 86 VF500f From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 8 11:52:48 1997 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 11:56:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: squeaks@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Todd B Peer" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Squeakers Subject: Re: Helmet laws.. > Now, How about those neato clips you can add to your strap to > make them easy on/off. I have one, and have been told they are > unsafe in a crash. Anybody have any facts they'd be willing to > share? Are they legal? > > Todd > > Well, I dont know about legal or not (and I guess most people now realize I dont CARE about legal, right?) BUT.. I hate them. I HAD one, and one time when I was putting it on, it PINCHED me! I aint got it anymore. Squeakers http://www.erols.com/squeaks From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 8 11:53:27 1997 From: Amit Chatterjie To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" Subject: FW: Helmet laws.. Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 11:52:16 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) > ---------- > From: Todd B Peer[SMTP:Todd.B.Peer@XXXXXX] > Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 1997 11:22 AM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Helmet laws.. > > > Now, How about those neato clips you can add to your strap to > make them easy on/off. I have one, and have been told they are > unsafe in a crash. Anybody have any facts they'd be willing to > share? Are they legal? > > Todd > > In Europe years ago they used to be standard on Shoei's. I liked them alot, however, they were made of steel. The one's I have seen locally are made in plastic. I wonder how long they would last, also, they take up more space in the neck area because you still retain your stock buckle. I have heard they are not legal, but I think that's a non-issue. Who's to know? Amit CBR1000F From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 8 12:15:57 1997 X-Mailer: ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.00 Date: Tue, 08 Jul 97 12:12:48 -0500 From: "Brian McCoy" To: , Subject: Re[2]: Helmet laws.. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Now, How about those neato clips you can add to your strap to make them easy on/off. I have one, and have been told they are unsafe in a crash. Anybody have any facts they'd be willing to share? Are they legal? Todd I'm not sure if they are legal... but I don't think I'd trust them. Had a friend with a Bell? (maybe Bieffe) that came unclipped at speed when the helmet was lifting. For the most part though, if the helmet fits well (i.e. tight), the lid shouldn't come off in a crash and should serve you well-enough. I would think the major damage would be caused if the helmet came half-way off after the wreck - if you had a neck injury, it would more than likely make it worse.. About the reflective coverings.. I asked a friendly policeman that lives down the street from me about this last evening.. he wasn't aware of the law at all. He also stated that it wouldn't be something he'd ticket or even concern himself with. I'm not sure if this guy's motorcycle friendly or not... but he was a nice enough guy to me (I was walking by on the way to the bar..). Everyone stay safe.. Brian McCoy bmccoy@XXXXXX 86 VF500f From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 8 12:15:59 1997 X-Sender: gixer@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 12:17:58 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "Collin T. Fagan" Subject: Quick connect clips Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" My Bieffe 3-sport came equiped with the quick connect clips. The connecting mechanism is made of steel, the release is plastic. The helmet is DOT approved (for what that's worth :) I'm not positive, but I believe a lot of the Bieffes come with these. Also, the original D rings are NOT retained as previously mentioned (on this model, and any others I've seen), and the size is not really any larger. Occasionally I pinch myself :), but generally if you loosen the starps as you take it off, then it doesn't snag you putting it on., and it tightens with the pull of a finger. They are also absolutely great when it comes to getting the helmet off quickly when that BEE flies in (reference Linda Tanner and Myself on last weekends CAMS ride) Collin _________________________________________ Collin and Penny Fagan LTjg, U.S. Coast Guard (202) 366-0067 (work) (703) 356-4279 (home) (703) 816-7255 (pager) http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/5280/ ride.html (ride sheets) bike.html (pics of the bikes) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 8 12:51:07 1997 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 16:50:51 GMT From: leavitt@XXXXXX (Mr. Bill) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Helmet laws.. "Todd B Peer" writes: > You are off topic here Aki(?). We were talking helmet laws and > the enforcement thereoff, beginning with the 4-sq inch reflectives. No, he's still on-topic. The thread _started_ as a question about reflective material and has _evolved_ into a traditional helmet war. But even at that, it's still moto-relevant. Shoot, even the Subject: line is still correct! :-) OTOH, unlike the question about reflective material this current thread is without closure. We all know the different stances, and we also know (or should know by now) that we're not going to convince those with the opposite viewpoint that "we're right and they're wrong." So I agree, if somebody posts something further along this line that you feel compelled to reply to, just reply to the original poster. > Now, How about those neato clips you can add to your strap to > make them easy on/off. I have one, and have been told they are > unsafe in a crash. Anybody have any facts they'd be willing to > share? Are they legal? If they're on a helmet that's "approved" by a given state (and we've seen that this can mean many different things :-) then they're legal. I'm not sure I'd want one, especially with the plastic clips. Seems a bit flimsy to me, at least in my experience with those found on bicycle helmets. I haven't run across one on a motorcycle helmet, and from my perspective I'd probably not buy one that did. D-rings are just fine by me. Mr. Bill -- Bill Leavitt leavitt@XXXXXX | "Blow it out your ass, motorcycle man! 4 Hondas, 3 Kawasakis & 7 Suzukis +----+ I am THE DEVIL, do you UNDERSTAND?" AMA, ICOA, KTC, Lemans, VJMC, DoD #224 |_____--Frank Zappa, "Titties & Beer" From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 8 14:07:02 1997 X-Sender: cnorloff@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 13:33:07 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Chris Norloff Subject: Re: Helmet laws.. In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19970708103746.34b75e56@pop.erols.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>...ahhh..so what you're saying is that now it'll be *alot* easier to identify >>your body at the morgue when your "cute" helmet doesn't protect you the >>first time you hit your head on the pavement.... >> >> > Oh, puhleeze! give it a rest. Whether or not I have on a "real" helmet >will be a moot point in a bike wreck. I mean, considering that if the wreck >was bad enough to put me in a morgue, the REST of my body would be in a >rather broken, sorry mess. It's easier to choose helmet use based on personal preference or on the idea that you control your life (if people can deny heroic life-saving medical intervention, then they can deny other life-saving devices). If you argue that helmets don't work, you have a vast preponderance of the evidence against you. Even the old Hurt report noted that 95% of the riders were or would have been saved by nothing more than a DOT-minimum helmet. Will helmet always save you? No, of course not. Are helmets death-traps? No, of course not. All helmets do is to increase your chances of riding tomorrow. Ride what you want and how you want, but don't confuse helmet choice with helmet effectiveness. Chris Norloff From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 8 14:07:11 1997 X-Sender: cnorloff@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 13:50:15 -0400 To: From: Chris Norloff Subject: Re: Re[2]: Helmet laws.. In-Reply-To: <9707088683.AA868378655@smtplink.micros.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > I'm not sure if they are legal... but I don't think I'd trust them. > Had a friend with a Bell? (maybe Bieffe) that came unclipped at speed > when the helmet was lifting. For the most part though, if the helmet > fits well (i.e. tight), the lid shouldn't come off in a crash and > should serve you well-enough. YOW! Careful out there. If your head smacks something hard, that helmet can come off very easily -- that's why helmets always have a retention device of some sort. My first 2x4 lesson in helmets was on my brother's dirt bike. (A 2x4 lesson is one that gets your attention like getting hit with a 2x4.) Going around an off-camber turn, I lost the rear end and came off the bike. I rolled down hill hitting my helmeted head on the ground with every revolution. SKY, SLAM, SKY, SLAM, SKY, SLAM ... is an easy lesson to remember. Chris Norloff From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 8 14:57:56 1997 X-Sender: level_5_ltd@XXXXXX In-Reply-To: <8C701AD947BED011ABF300805FC1F0620343A4@MSEXCHANGE> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 15:01:56 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Alan Lapp Subject: Re: FW: Helmet laws.. >> ---------- >> From: Todd B Peer[SMTP:Todd.B.Peer@XXXXXX] >> Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 1997 11:22 AM >> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >> Subject: Re: Helmet laws.. >> >> >> Now, How about those neato clips you can add to your strap to >> make them easy on/off. I have one, and have been told they are >> unsafe in a crash. Anybody have any facts they'd be willing to >> share? Are they legal? >> >> Todd >> >> >In Europe years ago they used to be standard on Shoei's. I liked them >alot, however, they were made of steel. The one's I have seen locally >are made in plastic. I wonder how long they would last, also, they take >up more space in the neck area because you still retain your stock >buckle. I have heard they are not legal, but I think that's a non-issue. >Who's to know? A friend, years ago, had a helmet so equipped. He dumped, and the snap failed. He had a hole in his scalp the size of a beer coaster. Personally, I think the extra 6 seconds required to deal with the traditional strap is worth it. Al level_5_ltd@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 8 15:30:00 1997 Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 15:26 -0400 (EDT) From: "Todd B Peer" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Stats, I'm out, Was: Helmet laws.. X-Mailer: MailRoom v2.1e >Chris wrote: >If you argue that helmets don't work, you have a vast preponderance of the >evidence against you. Even the old Hurt report noted that 95% of the >riders were or would have been saved by nothing more than a DOT-minimum >helmet. Will helmet always save you? No, of course not. (Not intended as flame, and I'm out after this one) An arguement that helmets don't work can be supported by showing that just one helmet did not work. It is not gratuitous if it can be shown that one instance occurs where none should. That 95% quotation is dubious at best. It seems to imply that 95% of riders studied 'would have been saved' had they been wearing at least a DOT approved helmet. What percentage of that 95% were NOT wearing a helmet? But, like you said, it is an old report. Here are some facts that came out around or about the same time period: - Department of Transportation tested helmets by a 6-foot vertical drop impacting at 13.66 mph. Even at those low impacts, 52% of all helmets tested by DOT failed. (from DOT Helmet Test Reports 1974-1980) - Of the top 12 states with the best motorcycle safety records (fatalities per 10,000 registrations), only one has a helmet law. On the other hand, fully half of the worst safety records are helmet law states. (MSF and Motorcycle Industry Council data from 1986) - "WARNING: No protective head gear can protect the wearer against foreseeable impacts. This helmet is Not designed to provide neck or lower head protection. This helmet exceeds Federal Standard FMVSS218: Even so, death or severe injury may result from impacts at speeds as low as 15 mph while wearing a helmet." (Label inside new helmet, 1990) Now, I'm not stupid. I realize that good arguments can be made for either side of this issue. In some fortunate cases some peoples lives have been saved BECAUSE they had a helmet on during their get-off. Also, people have died because they were NOT wearing a helmet (ie., brains exposed due to severe head trauma). Likewise, peoples lives were saved during an accident because they slid across hot, gravelly tarmac at speed and they were wearing leather, and their helmets never got scratched. There are also those unfortunates that had on the proper brain protection, and chose short sleeves (or none at all), shorts, tennies and did not slide so much as grind and bounce along that tarmac picking up dirty bits and peices that would end up killing them. I guess what I'm trying to say here is, statistics serve only a limited number of needs, those of legislature being predominate. The MSF has been successful with the legislature in winning educational outlets for us all. So then education comes from these statistics in a round about way. But motorcycling is hazerdous no matter what you do to protect yourself from that inevitable(?) get-off. People that ride, all people that ride, took a conscious decision to risk their lives just to try and enjoy the sport. Some people are simply more willing to risk it all than others. Not hard to understand if you consider the fundemental reasons we ride anyway. My last .50 cents. Now I'm broke. Todd From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 8 15:54:15 1997 From: Amit Chatterjie To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" Subject: FW: Stats, I'm out, Was: Helmet laws.. Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 15:53:18 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) > ---------- > From: Todd B Peer[SMTP:Todd.B.Peer@XXXXXX] > Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 1997 3:26 PM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Stats, I'm out, Was: Helmet laws.. > > >Chris wrote: > > > My last .50 cents. Now I'm broke. > > Todd > Gosh Todd, you could always pawn your bike and keep on writing. Just kidding now. The alternative is to ride fast so you get there before the accident! Amit CBR1000F From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 8 15:56:05 1997 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 15:55:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Peter Hartzler To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: DeLorme West Virginia Map & Gazeteer now available In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Greetings All! I just found out that DeLorme ( http://www.delorme.com ) has produced a Map & Gazeteer for West Virginia. I have ordered it from their web site. If it's anywhere near as good as their take on Virginia, it should be very nice indeed. Lots of detail, including even some private dirt roads... Cheers! Pete. Suzuki VZ800 (Marauder) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 8 16:28:56 1997 Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 16:25 -0400 (EDT) From: "Todd B Peer" To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" Subject: Re: FW: Stats, I'm out, Was: Helmet laws.. X-Mailer: MailRoom v2.1e >>Amit wrote: in response to me.... > ---------- > From: Todd B Peer[SMTP:Todd.B.Peer@XXXXXX] > Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 1997 3:26 PM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Stats, I'm out, Was: Helmet laws.. > > >Chris wrote: > > > My last .50 cents. Now I'm broke. > > Todd > Gosh Todd, you could always pawn your bike and keep on writing. Just kidding now. The alternative is to ride fast so you get there before the accident! Amit, Are you suggesting that we, dare I say it, SPEED!!!!! Ha, HA, HA, HA. I would never do that :~) Todd From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 8 16:45:47 1997 From: sbeck@XXXXXX X-Lotus-FromDomain: ISI To: Todd.B.Peer@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 16:47:47 -0400 Subject: Re: FW: Stats, I'm out, Was: Helmet laws.. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII .To: dc-cycles @ cs.umd.edu cc: (bcc: Steve Beck/ISI) Subject: Re: FW: Stats, I'm out, Was: Helmet laws.. >>Amit wrote: in response to me.... > ---------- > From: Todd B Peer[SMTP:Todd.B.Peer@XXXXXX] > Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 1997 3:26 PM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Stats, I'm out, Was: Helmet laws.. > > >Chris wrote: > > > My last .50 cents. Now I'm broke. > > Todd > Gosh Todd, you could always pawn your bike and keep on writing. Just kidding now. The alternative is to ride fast so you get there before the accident! Amit, Are you suggesting that we, dare I say it, SPEED!!!!! Ha, HA, HA, HA. I would never do that :~) Todd Yea. Never in a hundred seconds. ;-) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 8 17:04:10 1997 From: Amit Chatterjie To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" Subject: FW: FW: Stats, I'm out, Was: Helmet laws.. Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 17:03:05 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) > ---------- > From: Todd B Peer[SMTP:Todd.B.Peer@XXXXXX] > Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 1997 4:25 PM > To: 'dc-cycles@XXXXXX' > Subject: Re: FW: Stats, I'm out, Was: Helmet laws.. > > > The alternative is to ride fast so you get there before the accident! > > Amit, > Are you suggesting that we, dare I say it, SPEED!!!!! Ha, > HA, HA, HA. I would never do that :~) > > Todd > A while back I had a friend who used to be a cop. He looked at my then ZX10 Kawa and said "that bike deserves a speeding ticket even when it's on the sidestand. It already looks like it's doin' 100 miles an hour." But no. Speeding goes along with that err...helmet law discussion? So, OK let's hear it on that SPEEDING issue. Any takers? By the way that was also a joke. Amit CBR1000F From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 8 17:04:10 1997 From: SRFox@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 17:03:28 -0400 (EDT) To: aki.damme@XXXXXX, squeaks@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Helmet laws.. In a message dated 97-07-08 16:50:11 EDT, aki.damme@XXXXXX (Aki.Damme) writes: << and incidently, his *bodily* injuries (e.g. below his neck) were minor, but he flipped on his head and the pavement tore off half the side of his head... >> This is a good point. Helmets aren't altogether good at protecting you from impact, because heads are on necks and necks are fragile and unprotected. But helmets are EXCELLENT at protecting you from abrasion, which can be fatal. Hair, skin, skull, and brain are very poor performers in abrasive situations. If you don't believe this, here is a home demonstration experiment. Turn on the shop grinder. Put on a helmet. Put your right ear on the grinding wheel for 3 seconds. Remove helmet and repeat. Compare the difference. Steve From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 8 17:23:08 1997 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 17:22:59 -0400 X-Sender: squeaks@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Amit Chatterjie , "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" From: Squeakers Subject: Re: FW: FW: Stats, I'm out, Was: Helmet laws.. >But no. Speeding goes along with that err...helmet law discussion? So, >OK let's hear it on that SPEEDING issue. Any takers? > >By the way that was also a joke. > >Amit >CBR1000F > > Well, now that you mention it...... Naw! I will NOT mention the people that absolutely insist on wearing a huge heavy uncomfortable helmet (cuz they wanna be safe) yet dont mind FLYING... no! I said I WONT mention it! No! :) Sorry. If ya wanna start that thread, I aint bitin. Nope. Squeakers http://www.erols.com/squeaks One of my pet tarantulas got out of his cage, and I cant find him! Poor things lost. :( Hope my dog dont eat him. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 8 17:29:56 1997 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 17:19:03 -0400 (EDT) From: "Brian E. Ewell" To: Squeakers cc: "Aki.Damme" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Helmet laws.. In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19970708103746.34b75e56@pop.erols.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 8 Jul 1997, Squeakers wrote: > Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 10:39:48 -0400 (EDT) > From: Squeakers > To: "Aki.Damme" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Helmet laws.. > > At 09:36 AM 7/8/97 -0400, Aki.Damme wrote: > > > >...ahhh..so what you're saying is that now it'll be *alot* easier to identify > >your body at the morgue when your "cute" helmet doesn't protect you the > >first time you hit your head on the pavement.... > > > > > Oh, puhleeze! give it a rest. Whether or not I have on a "real" helmet > will be a moot point in a bike wreck. I mean, considering that if the wreck > was bad enough to put me in a morgue, the REST of my body would be in a > rather broken, sorry mess. Ive seen all the arguments concerning "if he/she > had only had on a helmet" AND "if only he/she had only NOT had on a > helmet". Its a personal choice. Or rather, SHOULD be. But DONT try and vomit > that stale, old "helmets save" garbage at me. Theres too many variables. > Too many opposing statistics. Tell you what. I figure this makes us BOTH > easy to identify at the morgue. They can recognize ME by my cute helmet and > mangled body. They can recognize YOU by your "saved" head and mangled body. Ok? > > Squeakers Okay then, let's try it from an open-minded non-fashion-conscious perspective, then. Last October (on Halloween no less) I was struck by a cager while passing through Chevy Chase Circle. Classic "I never saw you!!!" from driver, though I had high-beam on and was wearing reflective gear. Anyway, the bike was knocked out from under me and I came down hard on the right side (under the bike - low-sided, I guess it's called). Now speed was pretty low, and luckily no other cages were close behind. So my body wasn't mangled, and a trip to the morgue would have been pretty unlikely, even if I had been wearing a you-can-make-me-wear-a-helmet-but- you-can't-make-me-wear-one-that-actually-does-anything. But, if I hadn't been wearing a full-face helmet, the right side of my face and forehead would have been in pretty rough shape. Maybe that doesn't matter to you... I actually don't care whether you wear a helmet at all - it's certainly your choice. But don't start screeching about statistics and and acting as though anyone who recommends wearing a functional helmet as though they were over-protectionist controlling Nazi jackboot thugs (to paraphrase). Flames to e-mail. Brian. bee@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 8 17:34:40 1997 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 17:32:29 -0400 X-Sender: squeaks@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Brian E. Ewell" From: Squeakers Subject: Re: Helmet laws.. Cc: "Aki.Damme" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Maybe that doesn't matter to you... actually, no. It doesnt. >I actually don't care whether >you wear a helmet at all - it's certainly your choice. Thats right. It SHOULD be. > But don't start >screeching about statistics and and acting as though anyone who >recommends wearing a functional helmet as though they were >over-protectionist controlling Nazi jackboot thugs (to paraphrase). A law isnt a "recommendation" Its saying, *I* think this, so YOU have to do it. Are we talking about the same email? I dont recall any recommendation. I recall a sarcastic comment about me, my "cute" helmet, and a morgue. As you already did higher in your email , Im also quoting... > > >>> >...ahhh..so what you're saying is that now it'll be *alot* easier to identify >> >your body at the morgue when your "cute" helmet doesn't protect you the >> >first time you hit your head on the pavement.... >> > >> >>Flames to e-mail. You send this to me in private email, Ill respond in private. > >Brian. bee@XXXXXX > > Squeakers http://www.erols.com/squeaks From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 8 20:57:18 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id UAA21661; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 20:57:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id UAA09515; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 20:57:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from beta.nova.org by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id UAA07642; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 20:57:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ab2-007.dial.nova.org (ab2-007.dial.nova.org [205.231.232.199]) by beta.nova.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA13652 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 20:56:53 -0400 (EDT) From: kirk@XXXXXX (Kirk Roy) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: DeLorme West Virginia Map & Gazeteer now available Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 01:00:18 GMT Message-ID: <33c2e29d.2029882@mailgate.nova.org> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.361 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, 8 Jul 1997 15:55:52 -0400 (EDT), Peter Hartzler wrote: >I just found out that DeLorme ( http://www.delorme.com ) has produced a = Map & >Gazeteer for West Virginia. I have ordered it from their web site. If = it's >anywhere near as good as their take on Virginia, it should be very nice >indeed. Lots of detail, including even some private dirt roads...=20 Oi, the cost for these on their web page is high (shipping, that is). I picked one up while I was in WVa this past weekend. Very nice. The one thing I wish is that they would include both the route number and the route name. Kirk From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 8 21:29:02 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id VAA23140; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 21:29:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id VAA09721; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 21:28:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emout17.mail.aol.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id VAA10680; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 21:28:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Lgvxlh883@XXXXXX Received: (from root@localhost) by emout17.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id VAA18684; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 21:28:13 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 21:28:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970708212812_-2045040399@emout17.mail.aol.com> To: gnissley@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Helmet laws.. Name of the place is Rider's Accessory Warehouse and you must have been talking to Art, the owner. I live in Falls Church and know several cops who ride. (You can usually find them hanging out at the 7-Eleven on West Street on warm, clear nights they aren't on duty). I'll ask them about the reflective tape thing -- can't recall seeing any on their helmets, though. Lisa V. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 8 22:01:17 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA24318; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 22:01:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA10509; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 22:00:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from meretrix.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id VAA13044; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 21:59:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kiri.meretrix.com (kiri.meretrix.com [207.42.198.18]) by meretrix.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA08647 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 03:59:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kiri.meretrix.com (localhost.meretrix.com [127.0.0.1]) by kiri.meretrix.com (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA04384 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 21:59:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199707090159.VAA04384@kiri.meretrix.com> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Helmet laws.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 08 Jul 1997 10:39:48 EDT." <1.5.4.16.19970708103746.34b75e56@XXXXXX> Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 21:59:29 -0400 From: Harry Mantakos I'm strongly against helmet laws from an evolutionary perspective. I feel that for the strength of the species, it is important that humans with feebler survival skills and instincts be removed from the gene pool before they have an opportunity to breed and propagate their inferior stock. By forcing induhviduals to wear helmets against their will, we are interfering with the crucial process of natural selection, and our species will suffer as a result. So I say let the no-helmet-wearers remove their helmets and ride off recklessly into the annals of anthropology. On behalf of our own children and grand-children, the rest of us voluntary helmet-wearers should thank them all for being such good sports about the whole thing. Thank you. :P -harry p.s. The only thing more pointless than arguing about helmet laws is arguing about arguing about helmet laws... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Human: Harry Mantakos USPS: 547 E. Gittings St. Baltimore, MD 21230 Email: harry@XXXXXX Evil Twins: harry@XXXXXX, harry@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 8 22:05:42 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA24445; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 22:05:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nemo.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA10545; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 22:05:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nemo.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id CAA01279; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 02:05:37 GMT Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 02:05:37 GMT From: leavitt@XXXXXX (Mr. Bill) Message-Id: <199707090205.CAA01279@nemo.cs.umd.edu> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Helmet laws.. kbass@XXXXXX (Ken Bass) writes: > In VA: M-' 46.2-910 > [...] > -- > kbass@XXXXXX > Software Engineering Consultant > VROC #1, '96 Vulcan 1500 Classic, Jefferson, MD You're from Maryland and you're quoting Virginia law? Okay, sure, leave it for *me* to look up "our" law. :-) Any typos are probably mine. BTW, this is the first time I've actually read the language of the law. I was surprised to see that reflective material does NOT appear in it. I know it was in the last MD helmet law (repealed ca. 1979) and just assumed it was carried over. Just goes to show you... Also note that OVER HALF the law deals with civil liability related to wearing helmets. Is it any wonder that the MVA Administrator has refused to publish a list of approved helmets, in accordance with section (d)(3)? >From "Maryland Vehicle Law 1996" (current edition, 1996 indicates laws enacted by the Legislature through the 1996 session, so the date always trails the current calendar year by one), TR (Transportation), Section 21-1306 -- Equipment for Riders (a) Exception. - this section does not apply to any person riding in an enclosed cab. (b) Required headgear. - An individual may not operate or ride on a motorcycle unless the individual is wearing protective headgear that meets the standards established by the Administrator. (c) Required eye-protection device or windscreen. - A person may not operate a motorcycle unless: (1) He is wearing an eye-protective device of a type approved by the Administrator; or (2) The motorcycle is equipped with a windscreen. (d) Approval of protective devices by Administrator. - The Administrator: (1) May approve or disapprove protective headgear and eye-protective devices required by this section; (2) May adopt and enforce regulations establishing standards and specifications for the approval of protective headgear and eye-protective devices; and (3) Shall publish lists of all protective headgear and eye-protective devices that he approves, by name and type. (e) Failure to use required headgear; evidence; civil actions. - (1) The failure of an individual to wear protective headgear required under subsection (b) of this section may not: (i) Be considered evidence of negligence; (ii) Be considered evidence of contributory negligence; (iii) Limit liability of a party or an insurer; or (iv) Diminish recovery for damages arising out of the ownership, maintenance or operation of a motorcycle. (2) Subject to the provisions of paragraph (3) of this subsection, a party, witness, or counsel may not make reference to protective headgear during a trial of a civil action that involves property damage, personal injury, or death if the damage, injury, or death is not related to the design, manufacture, supplying, or repair of protective headgear. (3) (i) Nothing contained in this subsection may be construed to prohibit the right of a person to institute a civil action for damages against a dealer, manufacturer, distributor, factory branch, or other appropriate entity or persons arising out of an incident that involves protective headgear alleged to be defectively designed, manufactured, or repaired. (ii) In a civil action described under subparagraph (i) of this paragraph in which 2 or more parties are named as joint tort-feasors, interpleaded as defendants, or impleaded as defendants, and at least 1 of the joint tort-feasors or defendants is not involved in the design, manufacture supplying, or repair of protective headgear, a court shall order on a motion of any party separate trials to accomplish the ends of justice. (An. Code 1957, art. 66-1/2, section 11-1306; 1977, ch. 14, section 2; 1979, ch. 746; 1992, chs. 1, 2.) Mr. Bill -- Bill Leavitt leavitt@XXXXXX | "Blow it out your ass, motorcycle man! 4 Hondas, 3 Kawasakis & 7 Suzukis +----+ I am THE DEVIL, do you UNDERSTAND?" AMA, ICOA, KTC, Lemans, VJMC, DoD #224 |_____--Frank Zappa, "Titties & Beer" From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 8 22:32:39 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA25252; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 22:32:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA11049; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 22:32:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.clark.net by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA15580; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 22:32:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from explorer2.clark.net (hacker@XXXXXX [168.143.0.5]) by mail.clark.net (8.8.5/8.6.5) with ESMTP id WAA09534; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 22:32:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Dark Hacker Received: (from hacker@localhost) by explorer2.clark.net (8.8.5/8.7.1) id WAA06759; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 22:32:23 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 22:32:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199707090232.WAA06759@explorer2.clark.net> To: cnorloff@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re[2]: Helmet laws.. From: Chris Norloff Subject: Re: Re[2]: Helmet laws.. SKY, SLAM, SKY, SLAM, SKY, SLAM ... is an easy lesson to remember. Oooooo... and I remember this one well too :-) - Hacker From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 9 01:27:28 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id BAA29282; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 01:27:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id BAA12919; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 01:27:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from norway.it.earthlink.net by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id BAA23765; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 01:27:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [38.30.46.244] (ip244.washington10.dc.pub-ip.psi.net [38.30.46.244]) by norway.it.earthlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA09782 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 22:26:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: level_5_ltd@XXXXXX Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199707090159.VAA04384@kiri.meretrix.com> References: Your message of "Tue, 08 Jul 1997 10:39:48 EDT." <1.5.4.16.19970708103746.34b75e56@XXXXXX> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 01:31:18 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Alan Lapp Subject: Re: Helmet laws.. >p.s. The only thing more pointless than arguing about helmet laws is >arguing about arguing about helmet laws... Harry, you are so right. I'm getting waaaaay too much email (5 lists - yikes), and something has to give. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen for your participation, but I must depart. Please unsubscribe me. Al level_5_ltd@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 9 08:13:33 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id IAA01307; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 08:13:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id IAA16502; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 08:13:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dadc012.army.mil by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id IAA00650; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 08:13:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by dadc012.army.mil with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) id <01BC8C3F.F6CFC0D0@XXXXXX>; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 08:13:21 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Dysart, Glenn B., Mr., IMCEN" To: "'DC Cycles'" Subject: Re: Helmet laws.. Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 08:13:20 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 Encoding: 16 TEXT I agree with guys that you should have your choice of not wearing a helmet except that you are missing one important aspect. If you don't kill yourself when you get in an accident and don't have any health insurance, I don't want to be the tax payer that has to pay for your vegetable life. Glenn Dysart DysarGB@XXXXXX 84 V30 Magna >I actually don't care whether >you wear a helmet at all - it's certainly your choice. >Thats right. It SHOULD be From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 9 11:55:30 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA03362; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 11:55:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA20785; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 11:55:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp2.erols.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA10128; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 11:55:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LOCALNAME (frd-as2s21.erols.com [207.172.110.84]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA11585; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 11:54:56 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 11:54:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970709115705.4de7edd8@pop.erols.com> X-Sender: squeaks@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Dysart, Glenn B., Mr., IMCEN" , "'DC Cycles'" From: Squeakers Subject: Re: Helmet laws.. At 08:13 AM 7/9/97 -0400, Dysart, Glenn B., Mr., IMCEN wrote: >I agree with guys that you should have your choice of not wearing a >helmet except that you are missing one important aspect. If you don't >kill yourself when you get in an accident and don't have any health >insurance, I don't want to be the tax payer that has to pay for your >vegetable life. > >Glenn Dysart >DysarGB@XXXXXX > >84 V30 Magna > Tell ya what, Glenn. I'LL make sure *I* have plenty of health insurance when I go ridin with my almost helmet, and when YOU'RE ridin on your rocket machine, soaring through time and space at light speed, and cant quite...make..that..turn....(even WITH your spiffy full coverage helmet and adorably colorful body armour on!) I would appreciate it if you make sure YOU have plenty of health insurance, so *I* dont have to pay for YOUR vegetable life. Deal? It's kinda funny how the ones that are the most loud about the "safety" of huge helmets, are some of the ones I recall seeing posting in the "speed" thread and laughing about theirs. I guess it's one of those "I think this "risk" is ok and that "risk" isnt, so you have to, too!" Ah, well. Squeakers From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 9 12:29:55 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA03790; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 12:29:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA21597; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 12:29:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dadc012.army.mil by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA12045; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 12:29:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by dadc012.army.mil with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) id <01BC8C63.C82AA460@XXXXXX>; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 12:29:44 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Dysart, Glenn B., Mr., IMCEN" To: "'DC Cycles'" , "'Squeakers'" Subject: RE: Helmet laws.. Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 12:29:42 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 Encoding: 44 TEXT > > Tell ya what, Glenn. I'LL make sure *I* have plenty of health insurance >when I go ridin with my almost helmet, and when YOU'RE ridin on your rocket >machine, soaring through time and space at light speed, and cant >quite...make..that..turn....(even WITH your spiffy full coverage helmet and >adorably colorful body armour on!) I would appreciate it if you make sure >YOU have plenty of health insurance, so *I* dont have to pay for YOUR >vegetable life. Deal? That's great you have insurance. I hope you have a healthy trouble free life. The bad news is not everyone is like you and I. You would be surprised of how many people don't have health and/or motor vehicle insurance. But, you got a deal I were my helmet at every ride. As a matter of a fact I'm in the process of switching jobs and I was going to take a few days to myself between jobs and just go riding. I decided the risk of riding without insurance is not cool. Rocket machine??? I have a very tiny Magna, not exactly a rocket. I don't remember hitting anywhere near light speed. I think if you ask the people on this list that I have ridden with they will tell you that I am a safe rider. They will even tell you of a person we went riding with that I considered "crazy" and no longer want to ride with. Adorably colorful body armor??? I have a black Hein Gericke jacket, wear jeans and a full face black helmet, not exactly colorful. > > It's kinda funny how the ones that are the most loud about the "safety" of >huge helmets, are some of the ones I recall seeing posting in the "speed" >thread and laughing about theirs. I guess it's one of those "I think this >"risk" is ok and that "risk" isnt, so you have to, too!" Ah, well. Is this pointed at me? I don't remember "bragging" about speed to the list. Maybe you can refresh my memory? I did inform someone of VA laws regarding speeding. Not exactly laughing or bragging. And you may already know that only 1 and a 1000 accidents are caused by a high rate of speed anyhow. Most occur at 21.5 MPH. Use some common sense, wear a decent helmet. Have a nice day Glenn Dysart DysarGB@XXXXXX 84 V30 Magna (not quite yet at 186,281 miles per second) > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 9 13:13:35 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA04368; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 13:13:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA22640; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 13:12:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from msexchange.calibresys.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA14036; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 13:12:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by MSEXCHANGE with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 13:11:55 -0400 Message-ID: <8C701AD947BED011ABF300805FC1F0620343AC@MSEXCHANGE> From: Amit Chatterjie To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" Subject: RE: Helmet laws.. Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 13:11:53 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) You guys are making me want to wear a helmet just to avoid getting injured from reading your opinions! Lighten up people. Amit CBR1000. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 9 13:53:32 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA04730; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 13:53:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA23337; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 13:52:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lmmail.hst.nasa.gov by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA15802; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 13:52:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.118.97.183] (dhcp183_97.hst.nasa.gov) by lmmail.hst.nasa.gov (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with ESMTP id AAA234 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 13:56:39 -0400 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 13:56:17 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "Rottier.Amy" Subject: Something New! Riding! Camping! This weekend! Hello, Just to change the subject (and no, I will *NOT* render an opinion on the helmet/not-to-helmet issue!!!), I'd like some advice on routes to the Shenandoah for this weekend. We (about 8 of us) have decided to go camping at Sherando campground (don't remember the name - ~20 miles into the Blue Ridge Pkwy) this weekend. Last year we went the entire length of the Shenandoah from east of DC (Bowie). This time we want to cut some of it, but still have enough good roads to ride on. What would be our best route through VA just east of the Drive? Any hints would be welcome. Thanks, Amy '83 Honda Shadow VT500 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 9 14:15:52 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA04976; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 14:15:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA23606; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 14:14:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from egate2.citicorp.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA16847; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 14:14:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by egate2.citicorp.com id AA09800 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for dc-cycles@XXXXXX); Wed, 9 Jul 1997 14:13:52 -0400 Message-Id: <199707091813.AA09800@egate2.citicorp.com> Received: by egate2.citicorp.com (Protected-side Proxy Mail Agent-2); Wed, 9 Jul 1997 14:13:52 -0400 Received: by egate2.citicorp.com (Protected-side Proxy Mail Agent-1); Wed, 9 Jul 1997 14:13:52 -0400 Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 14:10:59 -0400 From: "Aki.Damme" Subject: Something New! Riding! Camping! This weekend! To: Rottier.Amy@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In-Reply-To: X400-Mts-Identifier: [ /P=CITICORP/A=MCI/C=US/ ; MTASO90002US 11Ibr800006Xg ] X-Mailer: Worldtalk (4.0.2-p8)/MIME ..with or without a helmet? ;-) ;-) jeez I didn't think I'd flare up this much bandwidth when I made my comment! This is the most traffic I've seen in this mailing list in weeks! cheers, -aki > Hello, > > Just to change the subject (and no, I will *NOT* render an opinion on the > helmet/not-to-helmet issue!!!), I'd like some advice on routes to the > Shenandoah for this weekend. We (about 8 of us) have decided to go camping > at Sherando campground (don't remember the name - ~20 miles into the Blue > Ridge Pkwy) this weekend. Last year we went the entire length of the > Shenandoah from east of DC (Bowie). This time we want to cut some of it, > but still have enough good roads to ride on. What would be our best route > through VA just east of the Drive? Any hints would be welcome. > > Thanks, > Amy > '83 Honda Shadow VT500 > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 9 14:32:58 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA05438; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 14:32:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA23842; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 14:32:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dadc012.army.mil by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA18163; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 14:32:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by dadc012.army.mil with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) id <01BC8C74.FB1FEE00@XXXXXX>; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 14:32:51 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Dysart, Glenn B., Mr., IMCEN" To: "'Rottier.Amy'" , "'DC Cycles'" Subject: RE: Something New! Riding! Camping! This weekend! Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 14:32:51 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 Encoding: 47 TEXT Amy, unfortunately the way you went last year is one of the fastest scenic routes to get there. You could do something similar to what Brian and I did last Friday. Take I-66 to exit 27 (the second Marshall exit). Turn left at the stop sign and go over 66. Immediately turn right onto 647. Follow 647 till it ends into US 522. Turn left onto 522 (south). Follow 522 south through Sperryville. After leaving Sperryville, turn right (south) onto VA 231. This road will take you just a few miles east of Charlottesville into US 250. Go west into Charlottesville for lunch. Jump back onto US 250 west until it intersects with Skyline/Blue Ridge Parkway. You could also turn right onto VA 20 three fourths of the way down 231 and that road take you right into Charlottesville. The third option is to jump off 231 around Madsion VA onto US 29 south. Turn right onto VA 230. 230 will dead end into US 33. Turn right (west) and within a few miles you will hit Skyline or turn left before Skyline onto VA 810. 810 will dead end into US 250. Turn right onto US 250 (west) and head up to the intersection of Skyline/Blue Ridge Parkway BTW, just about all of these roads are VA byways. Good luck Glenn Dysart DysarGB@XXXXXX 84 V30 Magna ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------------------------- >Just to change the subject (and no, I will *NOT* render an opinion on the >helmet/not-to-helmet issue!!!), I'd like some advice on routes to the >Shenandoah for this weekend. We (about 8 of us) have decided to go camping >at Sherando campground (don't remember the name - ~20 miles into the Blue >Ridge Pkwy) this weekend. Last year we went the entire length of the >Shenandoah from east of DC (Bowie). This time we want to cut some of it, >but still have enough good roads to ride on. What would be our best route >through VA just east of the Drive? Any hints would be welcome. > >Thanks, >Amy >'83 Honda Shadow VT500 > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 9 15:42:49 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA06616; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 15:42:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA25552; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 15:42:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emout19.mail.aol.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA22147; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 15:42:25 -0400 (EDT) From: LarFields@XXXXXX Received: (from root@localhost) by emout19.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id PAA24247 for dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 15:41:53 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 15:41:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970709154049_-726806055@emout19.mail.aol.com> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Newbie to list wants help & guidance rebuilding classic bike Hi folks: I'm a newbie to this list and to MC's. My Mom gave me her 1970 Bridgestone Dual Twin 175cc - only 2000 miles on it - she never rode it. I know little about fixing bikes & need some help. The gas tank has some rust, interior & exterior, and the battery keeps going dead; there's either a generator or volt. regulator problem. I live in Arlington. Anyone in the area willing to spend some time educating me? Please respond in private. Thanks, Larry Fields From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 9 16:23:06 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA07089; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 16:23:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA26227; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 16:22:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp2.erols.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA23855; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 16:22:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from default (spg-as16s45.erols.com [207.172.35.236]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA25145; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 16:22:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970709162452.006c0324@mail.geocities.com> X-Sender: gixer@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 16:24:52 -0400 To: Squeakers , "Dysart, Glenn B., Mr., IMCEN" , "'DC Cycles'" From: "Collin T. Fagan" Subject: Re: Helmet laws.. In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19970709115705.4de7edd8@pop.erols.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hmmm, last time I checked, a V30 Magna was strikingly similar to your Harley :) CT \ >>Glenn Dysart >>DysarGB@XXXXXX >> >>84 V30 Magna >> > > Tell ya what, Glenn. I'LL make sure *I* have plenty of health insurance >when I go ridin with my almost helmet, and when YOU'RE ridin on your rocket >machine, soaring through time and space at light speed, and cant >quite...make..that..turn....(even WITH your spiffy full coverage helmet and >adorably colorful body armour on!) I would appreciate it if you make sure >YOU have plenty of health insurance, so *I* dont have to pay for YOUR >vegetable life. Deal? > > It's kinda funny how the ones that are the most loud about the "safety" of >huge helmets, are some of the ones I recall seeing posting in the "speed" >thread and laughing about theirs. I guess it's one of those "I think this >"risk" is ok and that "risk" isnt, so you have to, too!" Ah, well. > > >Squeakers > > _________________________________________ Collin and Penny Fagan LTjg, U.S. Coast Guard (202) 366-0067 (work) (703) 356-4279 (home) (703) 816-7255 (pager) http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/5280/ ride.html (ride sheets) bike.html (pics of the bikes) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 9 16:28:44 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA07118; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 16:28:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA26303; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 16:28:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp2.erols.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA24161; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 16:28:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LOCALNAME (frd-as2s21.erols.com [207.172.110.84]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA26675; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 16:28:29 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 16:28:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970709163039.47cf8496@pop.erols.com> X-Sender: squeaks@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Collin T. Fagan" , "Dysart, Glenn B., Mr., IMCEN" , "'DC Cycles'" From: Squeakers Subject: Re: Helmet laws.. At 04:24 PM 7/9/97 -0400, Collin T. Fagan wrote: >Hmmm, last time I checked, a V30 Magna was strikingly similar to your >Harley :) >CT > > Yup, sorta is! :) I wasnt lookin at the type of bike he rode. As I told him ( in private) his "vegetable" remark reminded me of the type of people that seem to mostly make up this list. (rocketeers) and that I mentally placed him in with them. He became one with them. Resistance was futile. Squeakers From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 9 19:57:06 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id TAA08888; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 19:57:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id TAA29555; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 19:55:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from visuallink.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id TAA03443; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 19:55:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LOCALNAME (ppp108.visuallink.com [206.151.68.88]) by visuallink.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA11942 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 19:57:45 -0400 Message-ID: <33C44EEC.27B1A17B@visuallink.com> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 19:54:37 -0700 From: "Ivan S. Keefer" Reply-To: ivank@XXXXXX Organization: Completely UNOrganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: DC-Cycles List Subject: Re:GO...RIDE!! (Was..Re:Helmet laws...) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You people have entirely too much time on your hands. Who gives a rat's ass whether ya wear a lid or not! HELLO??!! IT'S SUMMER. YA KNOW, WARM WEATHER, GOOD ROADS AND FRIENDS. For Chrissakes...GO RIDE!!! -- Ivan S. Keefer Winchester, VA (Shenandoah Valley, Blue Ridge Mts., motorcycles *sigh*) ivank@XXXXXX 1984 Honda CB700SC Nighthawk S blue/black (current) 1982 Suzuki GS1100L 2-tone blue (previous) AMA # 487634 Home Page http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/8926/index.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 9 21:05:49 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id VAA09386; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 21:05:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id VAA00263; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 21:05:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id VAA16663; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 21:05:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id UAA19740; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 20:04:55 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199707100104.UAA19740@dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com> Received: from vie-va23-05.ix.netcom.com(205.184.183.165) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma019684; Wed Jul 9 20:04:30 1997 From: "Paul Douglas" To: "Dysart, Glenn B., Mr., IMCEN" , "'DC Cycles'" , "Squeakers" Subject: Re: Helmet laws.. Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 21:11:14 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 9 21:14:24 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id VAA09421; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 21:14:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id VAA00370; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 21:14:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skippy.umiacs.umd.edu by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id VAA18819; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 21:14:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.clark.net by skippy.umiacs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id VAA22593; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 21:14:16 -0400 (EDT) From: jimi@XXXXXX Received: from explorer2.clark.net (jimi@XXXXXX [168.143.0.5]) by mail.clark.net (8.8.5/8.6.5) with ESMTP id VAA28066; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 21:14:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (jimi@localhost) by explorer2.clark.net (8.8.5/8.7.1) with SMTP id VAA28179; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 21:14:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: explorer2.clark.net: jimi owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 21:14:13 -0400 (EDT) To: DC Cycles cc: Hawk List Subject: HawkGT For Sale in Northern Virginia Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII $3100 1990 HawkGT 647cc Red 100% stock Targa Fairing 7500 miles You can see it here: http://www.clark.net/pub/jimi/hawk -jimi From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 9 22:22:57 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA09849; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 22:22:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA00795; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 22:22:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from andrew.cais.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA24090; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 22:22:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.161.65.74] (richwest.cais.com [206.161.65.74]) by andrew.cais.com (8.8.4/8.8.4/CJKv1.99-CAIS) with ESMTP id WAA18868 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 22:22:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: richwest@XXXXXX (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 22:22:10 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Rich Westbrook Subject: repair shop As some of you know I had a little accident on my bike last week. The left side of the bike is pretty torn up and needs quite a bit of work to get it back to the pristine shape it was in. I would have liked to do it myself, but my insurance said that the work must be done at a shop for them to pay for it. Today I called Crossroad Cycles because of the good reviews I have heard from this list. The guy was really nice on the phone but he said it will take about 4-6 weeks to get my bike repaired. I can't go that long without my baby! Does any one know of a good shop that could do it quicker or should I take my punishment and take my bike to a good shop like Crossroad Cycles? Rich Westbrook Honda VFR 750 (broken) Richard Westbrook From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 9 23:21:36 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id XAA10240; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 23:21:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id XAA01219; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 23:21:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from visuallink.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id XAA26651; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 23:21:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LOCALNAME (ppp110.visuallink.com [206.151.68.90]) by visuallink.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA22907; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 23:23:07 -0400 Message-ID: <33C47F0C.ED02BD32@visuallink.com> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 23:19:56 -0700 From: "Ivan S. Keefer" Reply-To: ivank@XXXXXX Organization: Completely UNOrganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rich Westbrook CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: repair shop X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rich Westbrook wrote: > > As some of you know I had a little accident on my bike last week. The > left > my baby! Does any one know of a good shop that could do it quicker or > should I take my punishment and take my bike to a good shop like > Crossroad > Cycles? Rich, If you don't mind the trip, Hagerstown (MD) Honda has an extremely good reputation for high quality work and great customer service. Seeya down the road... -- Ivan S. Keefer Winchester, VA (Shenandoah Valley, Blue Ridge Mts., motorcycles *sigh*) ivank@XXXXXX 1984 Honda CB700SC Nighthawk S blue/black (current) 1982 Suzuki GS1100L 2-tone blue (previous) AMA # 487634 Home Page http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/8926/index.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 00:00:51 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id AAA10446; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 00:00:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id AAA01624; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 00:00:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from netsys.hn by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id AAA28545; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 00:00:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from internet.netsys.hn (dial41.netsys.hn [207.42.181.3]) by netsys.hn (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA04021; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 21:57:03 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <33C45E0A.8E6202DD@netsys.hn> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 21:59:06 -0600 From: "Raul F. Zelaya" Reply-To: rfzelaya@XXXXXX Organization: Curacao de Honduras X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" , Suzuki Listing Subject: Beginner Motorcyclist Information X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ok gang, here I go again! I've read of several of us that are beginners (and shouldn't have a problem with that) that are eager to learn as quick as possible to become as good or maybe better riders than our fellow old timers and/or experts. For us, I just found a nice address that compiles diferent subjects that may pertain to us and our limited knowledge of the wonderful world of motorcycling. The address is: http://vger.rutgers.edu/~ravi/bike/docs/beginner.html Also for "old timers", maybe a refresher of a lot of stuff that you guys take already for granted!! Enjoy! :-) -- Raul F. Zelaya '96 GSX-F 750 '94 BMW 325 ic Tegucigalpa, Honduras If anything can go wrong, FIX IT! (To hell with Murphy) Peter's Law From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 00:07:07 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id AAA10893; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 00:07:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id AAA01846; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 00:06:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from netsys.hn by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id AAA28719; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 00:06:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from internet.netsys.hn (dial41.netsys.hn [207.42.181.3]) by netsys.hn (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA05365; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 22:03:18 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <33C45F81.52A3A3BA@netsys.hn> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 22:05:21 -0600 From: "Raul F. Zelaya" Reply-To: rfzelaya@XXXXXX Organization: Curacao de Honduras X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" , Suzuki Listing Subject: How to Become a Motorcycle Roadracer X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As you may think, what's this guy doing??? Well, "mis amigos", just a little research on the wonderful WWW For beginners and old timers -> http://www.io.com/~duke/newrrfaq.htm Again, enjoy! :-) -- Raul F. Zelaya '96 GSX-F 750 '94 BMW 325 ic Tegucigalpa, Honduras If anything can go wrong, FIX IT! (To hell with Murphy) Peter's Law From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 07:37:41 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id HAA13541; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 07:37:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id HAA05108; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 07:37:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from quimby by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id HAA06900; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 07:37:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jil-c_norloff by quimby (IBM OS/2 SENDMAIL VERSION 2.01/2.0) for ; id HAD141.55; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 07:36:59 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970710073833.00953150@204.194.180.21> X-Sender: cnorloff@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 07:38:33 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Chris Norloff Subject: Re: Helmet laws.. In-Reply-To: <970708170318_505273797@emout15.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ><< and incidently, his *bodily* injuries > (e.g. below his neck) were minor, but he flipped on his head > and the pavement tore off half the side of his head... >> > >This is a good point. Helmets aren't altogether good at protecting >you from impact, because heads are on necks and necks are >fragile and unprotected. On the contrary, helmets are very good at protecting the head from impacts, which is what helmets are designed to do. Numerous studies have shown either that there is no increase, or there is only a statistically insignificant increase in neck injuries. Chris Norloff From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 09:46:39 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA14518; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 09:46:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA08535; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 09:46:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from egate2.citicorp.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA11482; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 09:46:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by egate2.citicorp.com id AA24378 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for dc-cycles@XXXXXX); Thu, 10 Jul 1997 09:45:15 -0400 Message-Id: <199707101345.AA24378@egate2.citicorp.com> Received: by egate2.citicorp.com (Protected-side Proxy Mail Agent-2); Thu, 10 Jul 1997 09:45:15 -0400 Received: by egate2.citicorp.com (Protected-side Proxy Mail Agent-1); Thu, 10 Jul 1997 09:45:15 -0400 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 9:42:19 -0400 From: "Aki.Damme" Subject: repair shop To: richwest@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In-Reply-To: X400-Mts-Identifier: [ /P=CITICORP/A=MCI/C=US/ ; MTASO90002US 11IukB000079a ] X-Mailer: Worldtalk (4.0.2-p8)/MIME ...I've heard very good stuff about Leesburg Honda...infact the Honda regional rep (who I spoke to when I was in a dispute with Coleman Powersport...but that's another story), recommended Manassas Honda and Leesburg Honda as the two best dealers in the area with the highest customer satisfaction and best maintenance dept. cheers, -aki > X-Sender: richwest@XXXXXX (Unverified) > > As some of you know I had a little accident on my bike last week. The left > side of the bike is pretty torn up and needs quite a bit of work to get it > back to the pristine shape it was in. > > I would have liked to do it myself, but my insurance said that the work > must be done at a shop for them to pay for it. > > Today I called Crossroad Cycles because of the good reviews I have heard > from this list. The guy was really nice on the phone but he said it will > take about 4-6 weeks to get my bike repaired. I can't go that long without > my baby! Does any one know of a good shop that could do it quicker or > should I take my punishment and take my bike to a good shop like Crossroad > Cycles? > > > Rich Westbrook > Honda VFR 750 (broken) > > Richard Westbrook > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 11:07:25 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA15657; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:07:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA11552; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:07:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ngedns.northgrum.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA15820; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:07:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xcgca001.xcg.northgrum.com ([132.228.123.154]) by ngedns.northgrum.com (8.8.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA24959 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 08:04:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by xcgca001.xcg.northgrum.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) id <01BC8D21.5B896760@XXXXXX>; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:06:46 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Meier, Christopher" To: "'dc-cycles'" Subject: Need help with brakes ... Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:06:42 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All, The rear brake on my 94 RF900 is really grinding. I just had new tires put on it and now when I step on the rear it grinds almost like metal on metal, not like typical squeeking. I have never changed brake pads before, but is it possible that the shop that changed the tire could have left a pad out!?! Or could they have bent the disk when removing the tire? Or anything else? I have no problem taking back to the shop, but it is a bit of a trip and inconvenient. I wanted to make sure that there is nothing simple that I should check first. Is there an adjustment to the rear that I can check/set before heading back out to the shop to see if that fixes it first? Also, it probably wouldn't hurt to just change the pads anyway (bike has 12,000 mi on the original pads), and this is something I would like to learn how to do myself. Any advice? I have the RF shop manual and it discusses pad changes. Looks simple enough, but what gotchas do I need to watch out for? Hey BTW ... where's that Saturday mechanic class we were going to start, when I need it? :-) Wanna start this weekend, and go over brake pad replacement, maybe? :-) TIA, chris ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------ Christopher A. Meier meierch@XXXXXX Northrop Grumman Corporation, Washington DC, USA 1994 RF900R AMA #470094 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 11:45:11 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA16018; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:45:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA12149; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:44:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from beta.mcit.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA17743; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:44:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ndcrelay.mcit.com (ndcrelay.mcit.com [166.37.172.49]) by beta.mcit.com (8.8.6/) with ESMTP id KAA21097 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:44:26 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pop1a.mail.mci.com (pop1a.mail.mci.com [166.37.204.5]) by ndcrelay.mcit.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA29618 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:44:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localHost ([166.41.242.141]) by pop1a.mail.mci.com (Post.Office MTA v3.0 release "turbo_2" ID# 1-123U25000L1S10) with SMTP id AAA20100 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:44:22 -0500 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:42 -0400 (EDT) From: "Todd B Peer" To: "'dc-cycles'" Subject: Re: Need help with brakes ... X-Mailer: MailRoom v2.1e Message-ID: <19970710154422.AAA20100@localHost> Chris Meier wrote: >All, >The rear brake on my 94 RF900 is really grinding. I just had new tires >put on it and now when I step on the rear it grinds almost like metal on >metal, not like typical squeeking. > >I have never changed brake pads before, but is it possible that the shop >that changed the tire could have left a pad out!?! Or could they have >bent the disk when removing the tire? Or anything else? It is possible that one of the pads could have fallen while the wheel was out, but not likely without the notice of the mechanic. >I have no problem taking back to the shop, but it is a bit of a trip and >inconvenient. I wanted to make sure that there is nothing simple that >I should check first. Yes. See below. >Is there an adjustment to the rear that I can check/set before heading >back out to the shop to see if that fixes it first? >Also, it probably wouldn't hurt to just change the pads anyway (bike has >12,000 mi on the original pads), and this is something I would like to >learn how to do myself. Any advice? I have the RF shop manual and it >discusses pad changes. Looks simple enough, but what gotchas do I need >to watch out for? 12,000 miles on a rear pad is NOT that much. Use your shop manual to become familiar with the form/function of your disc calipers and the pads. Take a flashlight and inspect where the pad(s) rest next to the disk. There should be a 'wear' indicator on the pad itself. The indicator is simply a 'cut' in the pad that should be anywhere from 1/16th inch and greater. If it is less than that, replace the pad(s). Unless of course your pad(s) where knocked out during wheel replacement, in which case....... ......the grinding you describe may have damaged your brake rotor. If due to a missing pad, get back to the dealer with receipt in hand and demand they replace your rotor at no cost to you. Maybe you picked up a small peice of road debris that is now lodged between the pad(s) and rotor. You need to get down there and look. Good luck, Todd From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 12:43:57 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA16810; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 12:43:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA13822; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 12:43:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ngedns.northgrum.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA20733; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 12:43:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xcgca001.xcg.northgrum.com ([132.228.123.154]) by ngedns.northgrum.com (8.8.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA00933 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 09:41:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by xcgca001.xcg.northgrum.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) id <01BC8D2E.D9E6E0D0@XXXXXX>; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 12:43:22 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Meier, Christopher" To: "'dc-cycles'" Subject: RE: Need help with brakes ... Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 12:43:18 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Ok ... that's enough children! > >I enjoy a spirited helmet discussion as much as the next person, but I am >asking a SERIOUS question here. > >I was looking for a bit more of a quality response than that. > >I know there is a lot of knowledge on this list. Would someone who has some >of it please help me out? > >TIA, >chris >----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >------- >Christopher A. Meier >meierch@XXXXXX >Northrop Grumman Corporation, Washington DC, USA >1994 RF900R AMA #470094 >----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >------- > > >---------- >From: Aki.Damme[SMTP:aki.damme@XXXXXX] >Sent: Thursday, July 10, 1997 11:22 AM >To: Meier, Christopher >Subject: Need help with brakes ... > > >..either way... before you start changing pads, make SURE you're >wearing a DOT or SNELL approved helmet! ;-) ;-) > >gawd I kill myself.... > >cheers, >-aki > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 13:11:30 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA17140; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 13:11:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA14125; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 13:11:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from micros-bh.micros.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA22089; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 13:11:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by micros-bh.micros.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) id NAA25152 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 13:10:33 -0400 Received: from micros.micros.com by micros-bh.micros.com via smap (3.2) id xma025101; Thu, 10 Jul 97 13:10:12 -0400 Received: from smtplink.micros.com (smtplink.micros.com [206.241.52.10]) by micros.micros.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/micros-2.1) with SMTP id NAA21156; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 13:09:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccMail by smtplink.micros.com (ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.00) id AA868554759; Thu, 10 Jul 97 13:12:42 -0500 Message-Id: <9707108685.AA868554759@smtplink.micros.com> X-Mailer: ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.00 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 97 13:05:03 -0500 From: "Brian McCoy" To: , Subject: Re[2]: Need help with brakes ... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, I know that with my bike, I'm squeeking right now because the rear brake bads are worn out (how'd that happen!!??!! I never use the dang thing). Irratating as 'ell.. What's it look like though.. seriously. Does anything 'appear' out of place? If you're not sure, and feel comfortable pulling the calipur off.. do that and look at the pads.. maybe they have something on them.. maybe not. Feel the rotor.. is it smooth (feeling from the inside out) or does it have 'grooves' (wow man, like how grooovy... ugh!). Beyond simple little things like these, that take a whole of about an hour to check (gotta give a little time for fetching the beers...) let the shop worry about it. Oh yea, try the trouble shooting guide in your manuel.. that might contain additional ideas.. Ride safe... and don't cook the rear breaks.. :) Brian McCoy bmccoy@XXXXXX 86 VF500f From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 14:00:05 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA18263; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 14:00:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA16417; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 13:59:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp01.worldbank.org by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA25156; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 13:59:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mrgw.worldbank.org by worldbank.org (PMDF V5.1-8 #16195) id <01IL2OG2NI2O8WW4WF@XXXXXX> for dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 13:58:34 EDT Received: with PMDF-MR; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 17:58:14 +0000 (GMT) MR-Received: by mta VENUS; Relayed; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 17:58:14 +0000 MR-Received: by mta SMTPGW; Relayed; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 17:58:32 +0000 Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 17:56:49 +0000 (GMT) From: "Brian S. Smith" Subject: I'd like to subscribe. Thx To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Message-id: <"E919ZWXSJYKYX*/R=WBWASH/R=A1/U=BRIAN S. SMITH/"@MHS> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 17:58:00 +0000 (GMT) Importance: normal Priority: normal UA-content-id: E919ZWXSJYKYX X400-MTS-identifier: [;41857101707991/891931@WBWASH] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 2 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 14:32:14 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA19518; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 14:32:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA17163; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 14:32:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tcs_gateway1.treas.gov by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA28193; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 14:31:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by tcs_gateway1.treas.gov id AA17221 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for dc-cycles@XXXXXX); Thu, 10 Jul 1997 14:31:55 -0400 Received: by tcs_gateway1.treas.gov (Internal Mail Agent-2); Thu, 10 Jul 1997 14:31:55 -0400 Received: by tcs_gateway1.treas.gov (Internal Mail Agent-1); Thu, 10 Jul 1997 14:31:55 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 14:26:28 -0400 Message-Id: <000DEE71.1950@ccmail.irs.gov> From: Randy.Chartier@XXXXXX (Randy Chartier) Subject: Unsubscribe To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part unsubscribe dc-cycles From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 16:18:06 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA21672; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 16:18:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA20167; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 16:17:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from alpha.mcit.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA03956; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 16:17:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from omzrelay.mcit.com (omzrelay.mcit.com [166.37.204.49]) by alpha.mcit.com (8.8.6/) with ESMTP id QAA15449 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 16:17:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pop4a.mail.mci.com (pop4a.mail.mci.com [166.37.172.5]) by omzrelay.mcit.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA03482; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 15:17:12 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [166.32.84.50] by pop4a.mail.mci.com (Post.Office MTA v3.0 release "turbo_2" ID# 1-123U25000L1S10) with SMTP id AAA29255; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 16:17:11 -0400 To: Todd B Peer Subject: Tupperware?? Date: Thu, 10 Jul 97 16:15:25 -0500 From: "Linda Tanner" X-Mailer: messageMCI v3.3 CC: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Message-ID: <19970710201710.AAA29255@[166.32.84.50]> -- [ From: Linda J. Tanner * EMC.Ver #3.3 ] -- Todd, I realize that you didn't write this, but I think you are going to get smacked anyway. 'Non-engineer-trained environmentalist buffoons'??? The tree hugger contingent could rise up en masse. You should remain vigilant. Euroweenies and the Sheeple of Europe?? A motorcycle oriented audience may not take too much offense here, but don't bet on it. In defense, there is a long article in this month's American Motorcyclist about European standards and what that means to us as motorcyclists and it's not pretty. Standardization may save the manufacturers some money, but ultimately we lose. The standards that could be set would be the most stringent (as to noise, hp etc) so that they would be valid in every country. That new beemer in my dreams will remain in my dreams, because they won't be allowed to build 'em anymore (the way I want it). LindaT. 95 F3 Purple Haze AMA etc. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 20:09:23 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id UAA28709; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 20:09:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id UAA23316; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 20:09:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emout10.mail.aol.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id UAA20508; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 20:09:06 -0400 (EDT) From: KLThomas77@XXXXXX Received: (from root@localhost) by emout10.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id UAA15137; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 20:08:34 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 20:08:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970710200833_409763885@emout10.mail.aol.com> To: vfr@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Still fiche-y Hey, y'all- I've still got some fiche. Don't make me throw them back! Some folks have forwarded this to other lists, and it's working. Please keep up the good work. > Tell your friends, or the other lists you're on. > > If you want to patronize the place that makes this giveaway possible, shop at > Cycles USA in Kensington MD. Parts guy Steve Price will take good care of > you. Tell him I sent you. 301-460-1600. They will ship to you. Without further ado, here's the _new, revised, shorter_ list. Free! > HONDA---CBR600F2 91-93, Magna 94-97, CB750 91-96, PC800 89-96, CBR900RR 93-95, CBR1000F 87-88, GL1500 92-93 > > SUZUKI---GSXR1100W 93-96 > > KAWASAKI---ZX6 96, ZX6R 95 95-96, ZX9R 94-95, ZX10 90, Concours 95-96 > ZX11 90-92 90-93 93-95 See ya Kevin From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 21:53:18 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id VAA01934; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 21:53:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from calvin.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id VAA25060; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 21:52:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by calvin.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id BAA11581; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 01:52:33 GMT Message-Id: <199707110152.BAA11581@calvin.cs.umd.edu> X-uri: http://www.cs.umd.edu/~iniquity To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX cc: iniquity@XXXXXX Subject: clutch suggestions? Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 21:52:33 -0400 From: Joe Siegrist My clutch lever feels kind of soft, and it isn't fully disengaging... I can feel the engine pulling the bike slightly. The clutch appears to be hydrolic, so I put some break fluid in, hoping to that by filling it up I would increase the pressure but the change seems minimal. Does anyone have any suggestions on increasing the pressure in the line? Joe From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 11 07:42:21 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id HAA11404; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 07:42:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id HAA29891; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 07:42:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp02.worldbank.org by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id HAA13650; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 07:42:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mrgw.worldbank.org by worldbank.org (PMDF V5.1-8 #16195) id <01IL3PIMQLBK8Y5AGX@XXXXXX> for dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 07:40:23 EDT Received: with PMDF-MR; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 11:40:35 +0000 (GMT) MR-Received: by mta VAX12; Relayed; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 11:40:35 +0000 MR-Received: by mta SMTPGW; Relayed; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 11:40:22 +0000 Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 11:27:41 +0000 (GMT) From: "Brian S. Smith" Subject: GPz1100 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Message-id: <"E346ZWXTAZ0RO*/R=WBWASH/R=A1/U=BRIAN S. SMITH/"@MHS> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 11:40:00 +0000 (GMT) Importance: normal Priority: normal UA-content-id: E346ZWXTAZ0RO X400-MTS-identifier: [;53041111707991/904820@WBWASH] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 2 Question from a new subscriber: I've an '82 GPz1100 that's fine to look at--an easy thing to do as too often it's dead by the side of the road. Problem: main (30 amp) fuse melts down slowly after about 30-60 min on the road. Bike continues to run as before after replacing the fuse. Only known quirk is that at some point during the 30-60 min run, turn signals go dead, then sometime later during the same period start working again. Bike is stock, other than aftermarket horns, including (oh geez) DFI, Kawa's digital fuel injection. Have checked all bulbs and most connections for corrosion, but none apparent. Also replaced both (two) flashers. Short on further ideas and patience. Any help? Thanks BS From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 11 07:55:29 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id HAA11503; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 07:55:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id HAA29947; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 07:55:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from portal.visa.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id HAA13933; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 07:55:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by portal.visa.com id AA00531 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for dc-cycles@XXXXXX); Fri, 11 Jul 1997 04:55:16 -0700 Received: by portal.visa.com (Protected-side Proxy Mail Agent-1); Fri, 11 Jul 1997 04:55:16 -0700 Message-Id: X-Ms-Tnef-Correlator: From: "Jordan, Michael" To: "'DC-Cycles'" Subject: RE: clutch suggestions? Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 04:53:53 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 Encoding: 7 TEXT, 37 UUENCODE X-Ms-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00 >My clutch lever feels kind of soft, and it isn't fully disengaging... I can feel the engine pulling the bike slightly. Have you tried bleeding the line??? begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(A<+`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0F `0`A````0C0Y-$4Y M-C9#,D8Y1# Q,3DQ1C0P,# P1C8S0D-"1#8`*PP```!X`"! !````90```$U9 M0TQ55$-(3$5615)&145,4TM)3D1/1E-/1E0L04Y$251)4TY41E5,3%E$25-% M3D=!1TE.1TE#04Y&145,5$A%14Y'24Y%4%5,3$E.1U1(14))2T533$E'2%1, M64A!5D593U4``````P`0$ $````#`!$0``````(!"1 !````(P$``!\!``!I M`0``3%I&=4Z I$L#``H`2!C"D!T$#"0(&QE=@20(&8)X IL!"!K"X!D(&]FQ"!S M& !T+" `@*@181 M"J #8'0%D'0+'>01,0`C@ `#`( 0_____PL``X (( 8``````, ```````!& M``````.%`````/__`P`%@ @@!@``````P ```````$8`````$(4````````# M``" "" &``````# ````````1@````!2A0``MPT``!X``8 (( 8``````, ` M``````!&`````%2%```!````! ```#@N, `#``* "" &``````# ```````` M1@`````!A0````````L`!( (( 8``````, ```````!&``````Z%```````` M`P`&@ @@!@``````P ```````$8`````$84````````#``> "" &``````# M````````1@`````8A0```````!X`"( (( 8``````, ```````!&`````#:% M```!`````0`````````>``F "" &``````# ````````1@`````WA0```0`` M``$`````````'@`*@ @@!@``````P ```````$8`````.(4```$````!```` M``````,`)@```````P`V```````"`?D_`0```!X`````````W*= R,!"$!JT MN0@`*R_A@@$`````````+@```!X`^#\!````%0```%-Y To: Joe Siegrist CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, iniquity@XXXXXX Subject: Re: clutch suggestions? X-Mailer: MailRoom v2.1e Message-ID: <19970711123611.AAA4915@localHost> Message-Id: <199707110152.BAA11581@calvin.cs.umd.edu> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX cc: iniquity@XXXXXX Subject: clutch suggestions? Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 21:52:33 -0400 From: Joe Siegrist My clutch lever feels kind of soft, and it isn't fully disengaging... I can feel the engine pulling the bike slightly. The clutch appears to be hydrolic, so I put some break fluid in, hoping to that by filling it up I would increase the pressure but the change seems minimal. Does anyone have any suggestions on increasing the pressure in the line? Joe Joe, You need to bleed the line just like you do with your brake line(s). hydrolic clutch usually has more air though so use a vacuum gun (about $40 and worth it). Filling the resevoir, though always good practice, merely insures that there is fluid available to the system. Good luck, Todd From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 11 08:48:10 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id IAA11809; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 08:48:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id IAA01418; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 08:47:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from quimby by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id IAA15780; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 08:47:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jil-c_norloff by quimby (IBM OS/2 SENDMAIL VERSION 2.01/2.0) for ; id IAA047.02; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 08:47:40 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970711081252.00953580@204.194.180.21> X-Sender: cnorloff@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 08:12:52 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Chris Norloff Subject: Re: GPz1100 In-Reply-To: <"E346ZWXTAZ0RO*/R=WBWASH/R=A1/U=BRIAN S. SMITH/"@MHS> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > Problem: main (30 amp) fuse melts down slowly after about 30-60 > min on the road. Bike continues to run as before after replacing > the fuse. Only known quirk is that at some point during the > 30-60 min run, turn signals go dead, then sometime later during > the same period start working again. You have a monster current leak somewhere, that's letting enough electricity leak to melt a 30-amp fuse! I'd check all the big cables: battery, battery to starter solenoid, solenoid to starter. Chris Norloff From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 11 09:50:43 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA12392; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 09:50:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA02594; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 09:50:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ngedns.northgrum.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA18554; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 09:50:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xcgca001.xcg.northgrum.com ([132.228.123.154]) by ngedns.northgrum.com (8.8.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id GAA10759 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 06:48:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by xcgca001.xcg.northgrum.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) id <01BC8DDF.C22C5540@XXXXXX>; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 09:49:43 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Meier, Christopher" To: "'dc-cycles'" Subject: RF900 Brake resolution Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 09:49:38 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All, First, Thanks to all that replied ... Second, I checked it over last night and there are not any (thankfully) scratches or scars on the disks. I eyeballed the pads and they do look like they need to be replaced. The shop has agreed to look at it and replace the pad if they need it, at a "parts only cost to me". I don't think the shop did anything wrong, but I am suprised that they did not recommend that I replace the pads when they mounted the new tires ... Oh well, I am just glad that it is not anything major. If the brakes were only squeaking, I would probably opt to replace the pads myself, but since they sound so hideous, I would rather that a pro take a look at it to set my mind at ease. I will however, tackle changing the fronts myself later in the year. So, to those of you on the list that offered to help (there were several generous offers .. thanks) I will take you up on it later this year. Thanks Again, chris ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------ Christopher A. Meier meierch@XXXXXX Northrop Grumman Corporation, Washington DC, USA 1994 RF900R AMA #470094 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 11 09:54:35 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA12486; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 09:54:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA02793; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 09:54:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp02.worldbank.org by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA18642; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 09:54:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from WBLN0014.worldbank.org ([138.220.29.7]) by worldbank.org (PMDF V5.1-8 #16195) with SMTP id <01IL3U5R7Y548WWA01@XXXXXX> for dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 09:52:46 EDT Received: by WBLN0014.worldbank.org(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) id 852564D1.004C8728 ; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 09:55:53 -0400 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 09:52:46 -0400 From: "Perry D. Coleman" Subject: Re: GPz1100 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Message-id: <852564D1.004B8EE1.00@WBLN0014.worldbank.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Lotus-FromDomain: WORLDBANK Problem: main (30 amp) fuse melts down slowly after about 30-60 min on the road. Bike continues to run as before after replacing the fuse. Only known quirk is that at some point during the 30-60 min run, turn signals go dead, then sometime later during the same period start working again. Bike is stock, other than aftermarket horns, including (oh geez) DFI, Kawa's digital fuel injection. I would be VERY suspicious of the aftermarket horns. I put aftermarket horns on a bike many years ago and had major problems with the electrical system thereafter. Of course, I'm not very good with electrical things, so the problem may have been caused by me. I do know that removing the horns and restoring everything to original cleared up that problem. YMMV... On the other hand, I also own an '82 Kawasaki Spectre 1100. A couple of years ago, I had a spate of problems with my main fuse also. I eventually wired in a heavy-duty spade type fuse holder for the main fuse. I haven't had any meltdowns (or blown fuses) since. I have also replaced the original ignition system with a Dyna kit, so that may be a factor as well. Prior to the meltdowns, I had replaced the stock coils with Accel coils, so that may have contributed to the original problem - replacing the ignition may have counteracted it. I don't know...but it doesn't meltdown anymore. Regards, Perry From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 11 11:49:36 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA13554; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 11:49:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA05375; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 11:49:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from micros-bh.micros.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA23620; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 11:48:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by micros-bh.micros.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) id LAA22774; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 11:48:14 -0400 Received: from micros.micros.com by micros-bh.micros.com via smap (3.2) id xma022755; Fri, 11 Jul 97 11:48:00 -0400 Received: from smtplink.micros.com (smtplink.micros.com [206.241.52.10]) by micros.micros.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/micros-2.1) with SMTP id LAA06052; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 11:47:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccMail by smtplink.micros.com (ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.00) id AA868636235; Fri, 11 Jul 97 11:50:36 -0500 Message-Id: <9707118686.AA868636235@smtplink.micros.com> X-Mailer: ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.00 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 97 11:43:34 -0500 From: "Brian McCoy" To: , Cc: Subject: Re: clutch suggestions? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Have you blead the system yet? Just like the breaks... if air gets in the system.. or the fluid is old, it will get spongy (break fluid absorbs water ya know.. water compresses.. spongy.. ). First suggestion.. hope it works for ya.. Brian McCoy bmccoy@XXXXXX ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: clutch suggestions? Author: Joe Siegrist at smtplink-micros Date: 7/10/97 9:52 PM My clutch lever feels kind of soft, and it isn't fully disengaging... I can feel the engine pulling the bike slightly. The clutch appears to be hydrolic, so I put some break fluid in, hoping to that by filling it up I would increase the pressure but the change seems minimal. Does anyone have any suggestions on increasing the pressure in the line? Joe From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 11 12:56:26 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA14389; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 12:56:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA05950; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 12:56:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xgate.usia.gov by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA27003; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 12:55:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Connect2 Message Router by xgate.usia.gov via Connect2-SMTP 4.30A; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 09:31:25 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 9:33:17 -0400 From: "Adams, Bill" Sender: "Adams, Bill" X-Confirm-Reading-To: Disposition-Notification-To: Organization: USIA To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: GPz1100 Importance: High MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-disposition: inline Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Connect2-SMTP 4.30A MHS/SMF to SMTP Gateway Main fuses don't slowly melt, they blow when they are subjected to amperage above their rating. What would cause a power surge that would blow a main fuse? Certainly there is a short circuit somewhere. This could be a wire that has lost some insulation and is grounding the frame somewhere, or...more likely, a problem with the charging system (voltage regulator/rectifyer maybe?) This is a problem that will require sitting down with a good 'ol multimeter and chasing the gremlin. I would suggest you first check all your connections...battery, etc... for good contact and corrosion. I would guess that it is something rather simple, as you are able to run the bike for a time until the fuse goes south. Bill Adams 3D Artist/Animator '66 Land Rover S2A 109 Diesel Station Wagon, '81 Honda Goldwing 1100 Standard: "Practicing the ancient oriental art of ren-ching" From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 11 14:20:04 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA15344; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 14:20:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA07297; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 14:19:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from reynolds-bh.rmc.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA00949; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 14:19:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by reynolds-bh.rmc.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) id OAA22688; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 14:16:30 -0400 Received: from internet.rmc.com by reynolds-bh.rmc.com via smap (3.2) id xma022457; Fri, 11 Jul 97 14:16:06 -0400 Received: from lanmail.rmc.com by internet.rmc.com (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA12484; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 14:19:19 -0400 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 14:19:19 -0400 Message-Id: <9707111819.AA12484@internet.rmc.com> Received: by LANMAIL.RMC.COM; Fri, 11 Jul 97 14:16:37 -0400 Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Jul 97 14:16:31 EDT Resent-Message-Id: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) To: , , From: "Frank George" Resent-From: "Frank George" Subject: FYI: Brake Bleeding Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Comments : The following message was posted on the Concours list server about a one-way bleeder valve. I've forwarded to this group regarding the recent posts about clutch problems. Has anyone tried these? Frank ------------------------[ Original Message ]-------------------- To : "Concours Owners Group" Cc : From : Myklrex@XXXXXX Date : Friday, July 11, 1997 at 12:09:38 pm EDT Has anyone out there tried SpeedBleeders? Little replacement bleeder bolts with check valves (let's fluid/air out, won't let air in) in them so you don't need to do the squeeze, loosen, tighten dance. Just pump them out. Seems like a good idea. Found their web page (somehow) starting from a list on the COG site. You can find them at www.speedbleeder.com. Per SpeedBleeder - the size for Connie (only checked on '88) is 7mm x 1.0 - $6.50ea. Waddayathink? Michael COG #2717 Frank George fegeorge@XXXXXX fgeorge@XXXXXX Reynolds Metals Company / Corporate Engineering "opinions are mine, ... mailbox is the company's" From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 11 14:54:19 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA15856; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 14:54:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA07756; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 14:54:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from beta.mcit.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA02507; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 14:54:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ndcrelay.mcit.com (ndcrelay.mcit.com [166.37.172.49]) by beta.mcit.com (8.8.6/) with ESMTP id NAA21210 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 13:53:36 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pop1a.mail.mci.com (pop1a.mail.mci.com [166.37.204.5]) by ndcrelay.mcit.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA14432 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 14:53:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localHost ([166.41.242.141]) by pop1a.mail.mci.com (Post.Office MTA v3.0 release "turbo_2" ID# 1-123U25000L1S10) with SMTP id AAA30605 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 13:53:34 -0500 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 14:39 -0400 (EDT) From: "Todd B Peer" To: Subject: Re: FYI: Brake Bleeding X-Mailer: MailRoom v2.1e Message-ID: <19970711185334.AAA30605@localHost> >Comments : > The following message was posted on the Concours list server about >a one-way bleeder valve. I've forwarded to this group regarding the >recent posts about clutch problems. Has anyone tried these? > > >Frank >on the COG site. You can find them at www.speedbleeder.com. Per >SpeedBleeder - the size for Connie (only checked on '88) is 7mm x 1.0 - > $6.50ea. Very cool. Thanks. Todd From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 11 18:16:27 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id SAA20573; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 18:16:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id SAA10817; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 18:16:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emout07.mail.aol.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id SAA14616; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 18:16:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Barbelle14@XXXXXX Received: (from root@localhost) by emout07.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id SAA01501 for dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 18:15:30 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 18:15:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970711181530_-258672083@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Fwd: Examiner Article MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=unknown-8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In a message dated 97-07-10 13:28:27 EDT, Ajay.Godbole@XXXXXX (Ajay Godbole) writes: << Born to ride mass transit By Rob Morse EXAMINER STAFF COLUMNIST This weekend tens of thousands of bikers are in Hollister reliving the 50th anniversary of the weekend that 3,000 bikers showed up and got drunk. From this came "The Wild One," in which Marlon Brando mumbled and rumbled on a Triumph. Nowadays a Triumph would disappear under Marlon, never to be seen or heard again. In Hollister there are a lot of riders with bikes sinking under them. We who were entranced by "The Wild One" are older, with a worse power-to-weight ratio than when we bought our first bikes. But most of us are richer. You'll see a lot of shiny Harleys with neat middle-aged riders in new leather jackets. You won't see many ratty bikes like the ones that were all over the streets of Hollister in 1947. What are they rebelling against? Nothing. Instead of investing in more high-tech stocks, they're putting some dough into a cool bike. They're more likely to riot around the Evian truck than the beer truck. When I was in high school in the early '60s, there were three kinds of guys with motorcycles: Guys with Harleys who scared the hell out of you, guys with Hondas who met the nicest people on Hondas, and guys with British bikes who were in between. They were all guys too. The first time I saw a woman driving a motorcycle was in 1970 in Paris, and she was tearing up the Left Bank on her then-rad Honda 750, with her long blond hair flying behind her. Ah, Paris. Now there are seven kinds of people with motorcycles, and they're not all guys. All of these types are down in Hollister. One: The real Harley people. They're the only ones you truly can call bikers, but don't get in their faces. Two: The nouveau Harley people. They bought them for the same reasons some people (them, mostly) took up cigars. Three: The full-dress couples with matching outfits, luggage and intercoms on their Honda Gold Wings. They like their bikes to be as much like cars as possible. They're usually as overweight as their machines. Four: Cafe racers, so-named because they race from cafe to cafe. In keeping with the cappuccino theme, they prefer fine Italian machinery like Ducatis and Moto Guzzis, as well as British bikes capable of being started. Five: Kids on Japanese kid-killers, those Hondas and Kawasakis swathed in garishly colored plastic that cracks to bits when the kids dump their bikes. Six: BMW riders. They're different from those who buy BMW cars, but they are a well-educated type. BMW stands for "Bachelor's, master's and workin'." Seven: All the rest, of whom I prefer the urban warriors on their miscellaneous ratty old machines the inheritors of wired-together 1947 motorcycling. You won't see me in Hollister this weekend because I can't afford a motorcycle anymore, financially or orthopedically. Any bike I really want costs $15,000, quite a bit more than the cost of setting the bones some red-light runner would break. My first bike cost $200. It was a 1946 250cc BMW capable of 57 mph with a tail wind. My best bike, a 1966 Velocette Venom, cost $800. Crafted with British eccentricity, this 500cc pseudo road-racer cornered like a bandit and leaked oil like Saudi Arabia. I was definitely not a biker, but some kind of weekend idiot who owned faintly ridiculous bikes, often taking them through unprecedented trick maneuvers. Best motorcycle accomplishment: getting a ticket on a Kawasaki 650 in Palo Alto for going 105 in a 35 zone. I was only fined $65. That was 20 years ago, in the days of 0-to-60 tolerance. Then there are the less-macho motorcycle stories. I have a friend who was so eager to get his new Buell road-racer out of his pickup that he tried to unload it without any help. The bike fell on him, tearing his Achilles tendon, which is no joke at all. The old rule is that there are only two kinds of people with bikes: those who have fallen off and those who will fall off. Now there's another kind: those who have bikes fall on them. You buy a bike to be cool, not quite realizing that bikes are virtually invisible (not good in an environment of 3,000-pound cars), but become very visible when you do something idiotic to draw attention to yourself. When you have only two wheels, idiotic things happen. Once I came to a stop in Harvard Square on my noisy, all-chrome Velocette. I went to put my foot down but my jeans got caught on a screw. I slowly toppled over in front of 2,000 people. Another time the horn vibrated loose and started blaring, so I whipped off the road. I forgot it was Cape Cod. As I hit the sandy shoulder, I tumbled and blared in front of the lunch crowd at Howard Johnson's. Never did get all the sand off the bike. A motorcycle offers unlimited opportunities to make a fool of yourself, never mind dying. That's something they don't tell you when you buy a bike intending to look cool. When I think of 100,000 people on bikes in Hollister, all I can think of is: How many are dumping their bikes right in front of God, everyone and a dozen news cameras? And where are all the orthopedists staying? Pins holding bones together? That's a cool Terminator look. --------------------- Forwarded message: From: Ajay.Godbole@XXXXXX (Ajay Godbole) Sender: owner-sbl@XXXXXX To: sbl@XXXXXX Date: 97-07-10 13:28:27 EDT ---------- X-Sun-Data-Type: text X-Sun-Data-Description: text X-Sun-Data-Name: text X-Sun-Charset: us-ascii X-Sun-Content-Lines: 8 Was surfin the web, found an amusing article in the San Francisco Examiner, thought of passing it along. ride safe -ajay- ---------- X-Sun-Data-Type: default X-Sun-Data-Description: default X-Sun-Data-Name: article.cgi X-Sun-Charset: iso-8859-1 X-Sun-Content-Lines: 140 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Friday, July 4, 1997 M-) 1996 San Francisco Examiner ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Born to ride mass transit By Rob Morse EXAMINER STAFF COLUMNIST This weekend tens of thousands of bikers are in Hollister reliving the 50th anniversary of the weekend that 3,000 bikers showed up and got drunk. From this came "The Wild One," in which Marlon Brando mumbled and rumbled on a Triumph. Nowadays a Triumph would disappear under Marlon, never to be seen or heard again. In Hollister there are a lot of riders with bikes sinking under them. We who were entranced by "The Wild One" are older, with a worse power-to-weight ratio than when we bought our first bikes. But most of us are richer. You'll see a lot of shiny Harleys with neat middle-aged riders in new leather jackets. You won't see many ratty bikes like the ones that were all over the streets of Hollister in 1947. What are they rebelling against? Nothing. Instead of investing in more high-tech stocks, they're putting some dough into a cool bike. They're more likely to riot around the Evian truck than the beer truck. When I was in high school in the early '60s, there were three kinds of guys with motorcycles: Guys with Harleys who scared the hell out of you, guys with Hondas who met the nicest people on Hondas, and guys with British bikes who were in between. They were all guys too. The first time I saw a woman driving a motorcycle was in 1970 in Paris, and she was tearing up the Left Bank on her then-rad Honda 750, with her long blond hair flying behind her. Ah, Paris. Now there are seven kinds of people with motorcycles, and they're not all guys. All of these types are down in Hollister. One: The real Harley people. They're the only ones you truly can call bikers, but don't get in their faces. Two: The nouveau Harley people. They bought them for the same reasons some people (them, mostly) took up cigars. Three: The full-dress couples with matching outfits, luggage and intercoms on their Honda Gold Wings. They like their bikes to be as much like cars as possible. They're usually as overweight as their machines. Four: Cafe racers, so-named because they race from cafe to cafe. In keeping with the cappuccino theme, they prefer fine Italian machinery like Ducatis and Moto Guzzis, as well as British bikes capable of being started. Five: Kids on Japanese kid-killers, those Hondas and Kawasakis swathed in garishly colored plastic that cracks to bits when the kids dump their bikes. Six: BMW riders. They're different from those who buy BMW cars, but they are a well-educated type. BMW stands for "Bachelor's, master's and workin'." Seven: All the rest, of whom I prefer the urban warriors on their miscellaneous ratty old machines the inheritors of wired-together 1947 motorcycling. You won't see me in Hollister this weekend because I can't afford a motorcycle anymore, financially or orthopedically. Any bike I really want costs $15,000, quite a bit more than the cost of setting the bones some red-light runner would break. My first bike cost $200. It was a 1946 250cc BMW capable of 57 mph with a tail wind. My best bike, a 1966 Velocette Venom, cost $800. Crafted with British eccentricity, this 500cc pseudo road-racer cornered like a bandit and leaked oil like Saudi Arabia. I was definitely not a biker, but some kind of weekend idiot who owned faintly ridiculous bikes, often taking them through unprecedented trick maneuvers. Best motorcycle accomplishment: getting a ticket on a Kawasaki 650 in Palo Alto for going 105 in a 35 zone. I was only fined $65. That was 20 years ago, in the days of 0-to-60 tolerance. Then there are the less-macho motorcycle stories. I have a friend who was so eager to get his new Buell road-racer out of his pickup that he tried to unload it without any help. The bike fell on him, tearing his Achilles tendon, which is no joke at all. The old rule is that there are only two kinds of people with bikes: those who have fallen off and those who will fall off. Now there's another kind: those who have bikes fall on them. You buy a bike to be cool, not quite realizing that bikes are virtually invisible (not good in an environment of 3,000-pound cars), but become very visible when you do something idiotic to draw attention to yourself. When you have only two wheels, idiotic things happen. Once I came to a stop in Harvard Square on my noisy, all-chrome Velocette. I went to put my foot down but my jeans got caught on a screw. I slowly toppled over in front of 2,000 people. Another time the horn vibrated loose and started blaring, so I whipped off the road. I forgot it was Cape Cod. As I hit the sandy shoulder, I tumbled and blared in front of the lunch crowd at Howard Johnson's. Never did get all the sand off the bike. A motorcycle offers unlimited opportunities to make a fool of yourself, never mind dying. That's something they don't tell you when you buy a bike intending to look cool. When I think of 100,000 people on bikes in Hollister, all I can think of is: How many are dumping their bikes right in front of God, everyone and a dozen news cameras? And where are all the orthopedists staying? Pins holding bones together? That's a cool Terminator look. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 11 21:42:28 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id VAA26694; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 21:42:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id VAA14486; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 21:42:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp2.erols.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id VAA29104; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 21:42:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from default (spg-as16s45.erols.com [207.172.35.236]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA01992; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 21:42:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970711214431.006c1260@mail.geocities.com> X-Sender: gixer@XXXXXX (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 21:44:31 -0400 To: suzuki-l@XXXXXX, gsx.r@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "Collin T. Fagan" Subject: Avon Azarro's Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello all, This isn't eloquent, it's just rambling thoughts on my tires. I saw a few bits and pieces of the tire thread (suzuki list) and questions about the Avon's. Well, I have had a set on for roughly a month and a half and 1700 miles or so and here are my impressions. On a side note, Motorcyclist did a write up near the back of the July? issue on these tires also. It goes along similar lines to my thoughts. Before the Avons, I was using Dunlop D204 Sportmax II's in the street compound. With them I was going through rear tires at the rate of roughly 1 every 2 to 3 thousand miles (usually closer to 2) Riding aggressively they did a lot of slipping and sliding. And in the rain...well forget it...you'd probably get there faster walking. They are really slippery. So I decided to try something new. Metzlers in the endurance setup (MEZ2 rear, MEZ1 front) was definitely an option, but after reading a little on the Avons I decided to take a chance. Upon arrival (subject of post along the mail order thread), both the front and rear seemed very flexible compared to a D204 carcass. I also noted that fingernail marks could easily be pressed into the compound. As for handling, these tires are incredible. They increased my confidence loads. As a result, I now have various scrapes on fairings and peg ends. You head deep into a turn, and they just keep sticking. I did manage to get them to slide a couple of times, but it took a 130mph sweeper while out playing at a quasi track day (reference play.html on my home page). As for wear, the centers are holding out great. Due to my abuse at the aforementioned playing, the right side of the front is gone, with the left showing significant wear also. On the rear, the right side is down to the wear marks on a tread or two, but the left side has a fair amount remaining. In the rain they are surprisingly good. The "swirl" tread pattern has fairly deep grooves and they seem to channel out the water fairly well. No more of the scary slip n slide I had on the Dunnies. I havn't measured (and I'm not going to), but they appear to have a slightly larger diameter than the Dunlops. I've re-geared my GSXR fairly low, and small changes are definitely noticible by a hundred or more rpm. Cost for my set was identical to Metzlers $135 rear, $110 front. Compared to $110 rear and $90-$95 front for the Dunlops. The Motorcyclist article says that they think these tires are about the best tire out there for handling and grip short of race compound tires (D207's) and I can't agree more. I'm sure I left something out, but if anyone wants to know more, just holler. Collin cfagan@XXXXXX _________________________________________ Collin and Penny Fagan LTjg, U.S. Coast Guard (202) 366-0067 (work) (703) 356-4279 (home) (703) 816-7255 (pager) http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/5280/ ride.html (ride sheets) bike.html (pics of the bikes) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 11 22:17:00 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA27707; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 22:16:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA15011; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 22:16:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp2.erols.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA01547; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 22:16:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from default (spg-as16s45.erols.com [207.172.35.236]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA06863; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 22:16:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970711221900.006eb734@mail.geocities.com> X-Sender: gixer@XXXXXX (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 22:19:00 -0400 To: suzuki-l@XXXXXX, gsx.r@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "Collin T. Fagan" Subject: Mail Order from MAW Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Since mail order also gets brought up once in a while, I'll add this to the fire. I normally order tires through Chaparral, but they don't carry Avons so I had to go elsewhere. Against better judgement (and not heeding many notes I had seen posted to the various lists over the past year), I went with the lowest price: Motorcycle Accessory Warehouse. The first question that I asked them on the phone was "Are they in stock?" (I needed them badly) Of course they said "sure...we can ship them out today....I have to quote you 7 to 10 working days, but they are shipping out of New York so it should only take 3 to 5..." A week and a half goes by.... no tires. I call, "they were both shipped yesterday".....the next day rolls around (friday) the front tire shows up, still no rear. In the mail that day I receive a nice letter saying "We're sorry to inform you that your tire was back ordered. It will be shipped as soon as we receive one" So, I call their customer service to see what exactly is the deal since they assured me that they were in stock to start with. After a brief conversation the customer service lady got extremely rude and finally hung up on me!! I never raised my voice, I was polite, I had just asked here what happened to make the situation arrive. Slightly miffed at being hung up on by so called customer service, I called back. After being transfered to customer service again (their phone system bites too), the lady asks if she could help me. "No, I don't think you can. I would like to speak with the customer service supercisor" Shocked, "uh..OK..hold please" 14 minutes go by (yes I timed it) "can I help you?" "Is this the customer service supervisor?" "Uh....no, why did you need that person?" I explained the situation. "hold please" (very sternly and grouchy I might add). This time 42 minutes goes by (yes I timed again....I'm very persistent when I'm pissed, and waiting this long didn't help) This time I got the supervisor. Unfortuneately, she was so polite that I could not take out my frustration on her. To make a long story short, they said I'm sorry but didn't offer to make it right or anything like that. I canceled the order (even though they had finally received a shipment and it was going out that day) and went looking for another source, even if it meant waiting another week. Also, they were going to charge me $14/tire for shipping!!! I've ordered quite a few tires mail order (7 or so now???) and I have never paid more than $6/tire shipping. Eventually, I went to a company that I have dealt with before with great success, in both price and availability. I bought the rear from Bonzai Parts (and yes I've seen em beat others by 15% or more). However, they normally don't do tires. After talking with the rep for a while (can't remember the name..Jim or something like that) he checked a few distributors. After the second one, he was able to match the $135 and only $6 shipping. I'm fully confident that he didn't make much money on that single order (since they don't do tires in bulk), but they will definitely receive some of my future business and will always get a good recommendation. DO NOT BUY FROM M.A.W. If no one gives crappy companies like this business, maybe we'll get lucky and they will go out of business. Collin _________________________________________ Collin and Penny Fagan LTjg, U.S. Coast Guard (202) 366-0067 (work) (703) 356-4279 (home) (703) 816-7255 (pager) http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/5280/ ride.html (ride sheets) bike.html (pics of the bikes) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 11 23:40:08 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id XAA28752; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 23:40:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id XAA16193; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 23:39:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emout11.mail.aol.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id XAA05297; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 23:39:55 -0400 (EDT) From: KLThomas77@XXXXXX Received: (from root@localhost) by emout11.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id XAA04729; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 23:39:26 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 23:39:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970711233925_-625877648@emout11.mail.aol.com> To: Pcoleman@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: GPz1100 In a message dated 97-07-11 23:17:50 EDT, you write: << I would be VERY suspicious of the aftermarket horns. I put aftermarket horns on a bike many years ago and had major problems with the electrical >> I've had aftermarket horns on at least 4 bikes with no problems in the last 6 years and 40000 miles. YMMV Kevin From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 11 23:49:33 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id XAA28814; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 23:49:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id XAA16260; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 23:49:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pafosu1.hq.af.mil by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id XAA05620; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 23:49:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from gnissley@localhost) by pafosu1.hq.af.mil (8.6.12/8.6.12) id XAA29612; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 23:32:45 -0400 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 23:15:21 +45722824 (EDT) From: "Gil M. Nissley" Subject: Re: Need help with brakes ... To: "Meier, Christopher" cc: "'dc-cycles'" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 10 Jul 1997, Meier, Christopher wrote: > The rear brake on my 94 RF900 is really grinding. I just had new tires > put on it and now when I step on the rear it grinds almost like metal on > metal, not like typical squeeking. Your rear brake is dragging.What happened to you is the same thing that happened to me once.When the shop put your wheel back on,they pushed the pistons on your rear caliper back in.Unfortunately,they didn't bother to clean them off first.The corrosion on the pistons trashed the outer dust seals and now when you apply the brakes,the pistons don't retract and the pads drag on the rotor. Take a good look at the pistons on your rear brake.If they're dirty, then the shop didn't clean them before pushing them back in and I'm right about your problem.Call the shop and let them know what happened and tell them they owe you a new set of seals(plus installation).If they balk,remind them that since the brakes a critical component they are libel for them(and they should have noticed the problem during the test ride anyway).Also,make sure they change both the outer dust seals,and the inner fluid seals(a total of four O rings). The official BuellBoy Genes model. gnissley@XXXXXX GATB#1121 HSB#38DT Buell S1 Lightning "The Petty Hate Machine" From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 11 23:53:36 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id XAA28839; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 23:53:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id XAA16320; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 23:53:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pafosu1.hq.af.mil by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id XAA05735; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 23:53:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from gnissley@localhost) by pafosu1.hq.af.mil (8.6.12/8.6.12) id XAA29720; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 23:48:48 -0400 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 23:38:56 +45722824 (EDT) From: "Gil M. Nissley" Subject: Re: Avon Azarro's To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970711214431.006c1260@mail.geocities.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 11 Jul 1997, Collin T. Fagan wrote: > Riding aggressively they did a lot of slipping and sliding. And in the > rain...well forget it...you'd probably get there faster walking. They are > really slippery. Really?That's odd.I've ridden in a couple of bad storms with D204's on my S1,and they stuck great.Best rain tires I've used,in fact.And they also do good on bridge gratings and ignore rain-groved roads. Of course,my V-twin makes power completely different from your inline four,but I've always liked Dunlops in the rain.I had 491's on my V30 Magna,591's on my VFR750 Interceptor,and D205's on my S2 and liked them all. The official BuellBoy Genes model. gnissley@XXXXXX GATB#1121 HSB#38DT Buell S1 Lightning "The Petty Hate Machine" From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jul 12 07:17:20 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id HAA01650; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 07:17:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id HAA19204; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 07:17:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp1.erols.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id HAA11331; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 07:17:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LOCALNAME (spg-tnt-fe-1s143.erols.com [207.172.95.143]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA29209; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 07:17:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33C791CA.473B@erols.com> Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 07:16:42 -0700 From: "David & Alane O'Neill" Reply-To: djoneill@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-DH397 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: suzuki-l@XXXXXX, gsx.r@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Mail Order from MAW References: <3.0.1.32.19970711221900.006eb734@mail.geocities.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I own stock in MAW and... Just kidding. Because of business connections, Dennis Kirk will almost ALWAYS have what you want in stock. Dennis Kirk has a "beat them by a buck" policy, that is "if we carry it, we'll beat their shipped price by a buck." Always. DK has almost always paid less for their inventory than any other mailorder house, so they can beat anybody. Try DK. They are able to make you the best deal, and are best able to deliver. Collin T. Fagan wrote: > > Since mail order also gets brought up once in a while, I'll add this to the > fire. > > I normally order tires through Chaparral, but they don't carry Avons so I > had to go elsewhere. Against better judgement (and not heeding many notes > I had seen posted to the various lists over the past year), I went with the > lowest price: Motorcycle Accessory Warehouse. > > The first question that I asked them on the phone was "Are they in stock?" > (I needed them badly) > Of course they said "sure...we can ship them out today....I have to quote > you 7 to 10 working days, but they are shipping out of New York so it > should only take 3 to 5..." > A week and a half goes by.... no tires. I call, "they were both shipped > yesterday".....the next day rolls around (friday) the front tire shows up, > still no rear. In the mail that day I receive a nice letter saying "We're > sorry to inform you that your tire was back ordered. It will be shipped as > soon as we receive one" > So, I call their customer service to see what exactly is the deal since > they assured me that they were in stock to start with. After a brief > conversation the customer service lady got extremely rude and finally hung > up on me!! I never raised my voice, I was polite, I had just asked here > what happened to make the situation arrive. > Slightly miffed at being hung up on by so called customer service, I called > back. After being transfered to customer service again (their phone system > bites too), the lady asks if she could help me. "No, I don't think you can. > I would like to speak with the customer service supercisor" Shocked, > "uh..OK..hold please" 14 minutes go by (yes I timed it) "can I help you?" > "Is this the customer service supervisor?" "Uh....no, why did you need that > person?" I explained the situation. "hold please" (very sternly and > grouchy I might add). This time 42 minutes goes by (yes I timed > again....I'm very persistent when I'm pissed, and waiting this long didn't > help) This time I got the supervisor. Unfortuneately, she was so polite > that I could not take out my frustration on her. To make a long story > short, they said I'm sorry but didn't offer to make it right or anything > like that. I canceled the order (even though they had finally received a > shipment and it was going out that day) and went looking for another > source, even if it meant waiting another week. > Also, they were going to charge me $14/tire for shipping!!! I've ordered > quite a few tires mail order (7 or so now???) and I have never paid more > than $6/tire shipping. > > Eventually, I went to a company that I have dealt with before with great > success, in both price and availability. I bought the rear from Bonzai > Parts (and yes I've seen em beat others by 15% or more). However, they > normally don't do tires. After talking with the rep for a while (can't > remember the name..Jim or something like that) he checked a few > distributors. After the second one, he was able to match the $135 and only > $6 shipping. I'm fully confident that he didn't make much money on that > single order (since they don't do tires in bulk), but they will definitely > receive some of my future business and will always get a good recommendation. > > DO NOT BUY FROM M.A.W. If no one gives crappy companies like this > business, maybe we'll get lucky and they will go out of business. > > Collin > > _________________________________________ > Collin and Penny Fagan > LTjg, U.S. Coast Guard > (202) 366-0067 (work) > (703) 356-4279 (home) > (703) 816-7255 (pager) > http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/5280/ > ride.html (ride sheets) > bike.html (pics of the bikes) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jul 12 08:40:36 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id IAA01897; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 08:40:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id IAA19386; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 08:40:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp3.erols.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id IAA13427; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 08:40:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from default (spg-as16s45.erols.com [207.172.35.236]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA19269; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 08:40:18 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970712084304.006ee60c@mail.geocities.com> X-Sender: gixer@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 08:43:04 -0400 To: KLThomas77@XXXXXX, Pcoleman@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "Collin T. Fagan" Subject: Horn was Re: GPz1100 In-Reply-To: <970711233925_-625877648@emout11.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ><< I would be VERY suspicious of the aftermarket horns. I put aftermarket > horns on a bike many years ago and had major problems with the electrical >> It's really going to depend on the bike, like Kevin, I've had no problems mounting a 132db Fiamms into the factory wiring of my 93 GSXR 750. However, some bikes cannot handle this extra load without adding a higher gauge supply wire and installing a relay. If you do the relay thing right you should have no problems with your electrical. For the daily commute into DC, the $15 addition really helps me get the attention of the mindless cageers that decide my lane is the one they want to be in right now. Kind of funny when they swerve back and start really looking for that "big car" that honked at em :) Collin (off for an all-day riding fest) _________________________________________ Collin and Penny Fagan LTjg, U.S. Coast Guard (202) 366-0067 (work) (703) 356-4279 (home) (703) 816-7255 (pager) http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/5280/ ride.html (ride sheets) bike.html (pics of the bikes) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jul 12 10:26:37 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA02157; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 10:26:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA19692; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 10:25:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emout20.mail.aol.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA16326; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 10:25:49 -0400 (EDT) From: KLThomas77@XXXXXX Received: (from root@localhost) by emout20.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id KAA10114 for dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 10:25:23 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 10:25:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970712102522_1078526771@emout20.mail.aol.com> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Vanson perforated leather Hey, y'all I just went to Battleys and rode a Buell Cyclone S3. That's not the point, but it was nice enough, I suppose, but not nice enough for me to buy one. Anyway, while there, I tried on the Vanson Sport perforated jacket. I went outside and stood in the 90 degree sun for 5-10 min and shot the breeze w/ some guys. Speaking of breeze, whenever it blew, it went thru the jacket. I sweated lightly, but nothing like usual. A guy pulled up wearing one, and I asked his opinion. He said it was ok, but hot as hell standing still. He didn't seem impressed, which surprised me. So I asked what he had before the Vanson. First jacket, first bike. His opinion was immediately discarded. I was amazed by the jacket. I recommend it heartily. They hinted I might be able to take it for a ride, but it was so good standing still I didn't bother. Like $470 for the jacket, $415 for pants, I don't know how much for the armor. They said they'd cut me a deal on the whole setup. They don't have the pants, or my size in the jacket, but that's not surprising. For a small fee, they said Vanson would custom make the whole thing to my measurements. I think I'll do that (when I buy one), as I really need a jacket a bit longer than most. That's it Kevin From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jul 12 10:47:43 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA02205; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 10:47:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA19825; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 10:47:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emout11.mail.aol.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA16854; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 10:47:34 -0400 (EDT) From: KLThomas77@XXXXXX Received: (from root@localhost) by emout11.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id KAA10872; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 10:47:07 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 10:47:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970712104706_-924006724@emout11.mail.aol.com> To: vfr@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: 87 VFR700 for sale Hey, y'all- I'm selling my 87 VFR700. I just made the price more reasonable than last time I tried to sell it. I'm serious. Tell your friends. Ask Jonathan Vinson or Paul Johnston if it's as nice as I say it is. My ex-girlfriend bought it about 3 years ago from lister Kevin Ley. I traded her a 400 Bandit and a pile of money for it a couple of months ago when I sold my 92. It has 26200 miles, I think. She bought it at around 18000, right Kevin? It is blue and silver. It has flush front signals, the stock front signals are at the rear, wired for running lights. It has mirrors you can actually see out of, and can adjust with one hand, neither of which were features of the stock mirrors. It has high wattage headlight and taillight bulbs, and new metzelers. Stock sizes. It has 8-month old brand new stock mufflers, Heli bars, Hella Supertone Horns. It needs no work, and I will fully service it this weekend. Everything else is stock that I can think of. It has a about 5 very light scratches on the left lower from a tip over, and some paint rubbed off the edge of the right upper by the handlebars from a 2 bike tipover in the back of a truck. This is almost invisible. From the same tipover, it has a new brake master cylinder, right lower and side cover, and a new tail. All factory painted Honda parts. Includes stock bars, etc...., 1 quart each of blue base, blue candy, and clear paint, seat cowl in primer, Supertrapp slipons, and probably some more stuff. I want $3000 for it. I think you'll like it. Kevin 301-424-5319 PS Photos will be available soon on Andrew Reveles' page. I'll tell you when. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jul 12 11:04:19 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA02251; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 11:04:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA20049; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 11:04:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emout09.mail.aol.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA17297; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 11:04:11 -0400 (EDT) From: KLThomas77@XXXXXX Received: (from root@localhost) by emout09.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id LAA17506 for dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 11:03:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 11:03:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970712110344_93796165@emout09.mail.aol.com> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Fwd: 92 VFR 750 for sale, needs lots of work --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: 92 VFR 750 for sale, needs lots of work Date: 97-07-12 11:01:33 EDT From: KLThomas77 To: vfr@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Hey, y'all I'm thinking seriously about selling my 92 VFR 750. Somebody expressed interest the other day and got me thinking about selling it. Quick overview: I bought it at 18800 miles, great shape. I sold it at 28500 miles, great shape. I bought it again at 29600 miles, not great shape. It had been hit by a car while parked. It can be fixed for less than another one will cost. I swear! But I don't really have the time to do it, and I won't make a huge profit from selling it, and right now I need money. I want some Vanson Leathers. It needs all the plastic except the right side of the tail. I have scuffed but un-cracked parts for the whole left side. I have access to the whole right side, ready to paint, for $325. The radiator needs work. Probably repairable for $150 or less. I may send it out to get done soon, thus reducing your risk if you buy the bike. The new TBR full system has a small dent behind the footpeg bracket, and a couple of scratches. The tank has a dent, repairable. It needs a sidestand, and the brake lever, shifter, and brake pedal are bent. The pedals can be straightened, and I have a less bent lever. It includes an Ungo alarm. I paid $1600 for the bike and all the parts. That's what I want for it. Please tell your friends. Later Kevin From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jul 12 12:47:22 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA02571; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 12:47:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA21330; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 12:47:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emout10.mail.aol.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA20225; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 12:47:01 -0400 (EDT) From: KLThomas77@XXXXXX Received: (from root@localhost) by emout10.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id MAA28044; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 12:46:33 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 12:46:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970712124630_74824320@emout10.mail.aol.com> To: vfr@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: more info on 92VFR project for sale Hey, y'all- More info on my wrecked 92 for sale I'm in Potomac MD, 20 mi from DC. Once the radiator is fixed and the shifter etc, straightened, it should be ridable. No frame/suspension damage that I can see. To make it servicable, one could put on the plastic I have and that I know where to get, thus allowing the reattatchment of all the turnsignals, and ride it. It'd be ugly but cheap. (and red on one side) Total cost at this point should be ~ $2100. BTW, you also get the stock exhaust. One thing I considered was selling the TBR (have to be relatively cheap, due to damage, but was $500+ new), thus reducing my cost a bit, and reinstalling the stock stuff. It has a K&N stage 1 jet kit and filter too. You can call me at 301-424-5319. I have photos if it sounds good to you. Also, of course, could be parted out if you want to do that. I hear swing arm/brake/wheel assemblies are worth up to $1500. I considered putting the front end on my 87. VFR engines don't go bad much, but if somebody needed one.... Thanks Kevin From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Jul 13 00:01:56 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id AAA12270; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 00:01:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id AAA26419; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 00:01:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emout19.mail.aol.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id AAA19958; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 00:01:36 -0400 (EDT) From: AKIMOTO@XXXXXX Received: (from root@localhost) by emout19.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id AAA26515; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 00:01:11 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 00:01:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970713000111_-526912032@emout19.mail.aol.com> To: djoneill@XXXXXX, suzuki-l@XXXXXX, gsx.r@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Mail Order from MAW In a message dated 7/12/97 4:34:27 PM, djoneill@XXXXXX (David & Alane O'Neill) wrote: << Because of business connections, Dennis Kirk will almost ALWAYS have what you want in stock. Dennis Kirk has a "beat them by a buck" policy, that is "if we carry it, we'll beat their shipped price by a buck." Always. DK has almost always paid less for their inventory than any other mailorder house, so they can beat anybody. Try DK. They are able to make you the best deal, and are best able to deliver. >> Really, I guess I never asked if they would match prices with other mail order houses, living 40 min south of Dennis Kirk it is nice to know if I need some odd part that they will have it 99.99 percent of the time and is just a drive away. If you ever are in the Twin Cities area in Minnesota take the time and a drive 40 min north to Rush City and see Dennis Kirk but more important the O U T L E T S T O R E ! ! ! ! If I was 50 lbs lighter and 4 inches shorter those leathers hanging on the wall up there would be mine ......... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Jul 13 08:41:44 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id IAA14442; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 08:41:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id IAA29309; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 08:41:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from punjab.aug.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id IAA28692; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 08:41:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (tonyd@localhost) by punjab.aug.com (8.8.3/8.6.6) with SMTP id IAA15970; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 08:41:04 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 08:41:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Tony dAngelo To: AKIMOTO@XXXXXX cc: djoneill@XXXXXX, suzuki-l@XXXXXX, gsx.r@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Mail Order from MAW In-Reply-To: <970713000111_-526912032@emout19.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I called DK and asked if they would match prices on a AGV leather jacket. They said "no way". I asked why not and the lady said "no way"..... Tony 97 GSX-R 750 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Jul 13 10:06:53 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA14639; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 10:06:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA29784; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 10:06:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emout07.mail.aol.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA01019; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 10:06:40 -0400 (EDT) From: KLThomas77@XXXXXX Received: (from root@localhost) by emout07.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id KAA19347; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 10:05:37 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 10:05:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970713100536_982579057@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, vfr@XXXXXX Subject: ME99A FS 130-80-18 Hey, y'all- I have a Metzeler ME99A with ~400 miles for sale from the rear of my 87 VFR700. It's a 130/80/18, the stock size. It is the longer-lasting of Metzeler's 2 sport-tour tires. I need the stickier one. I told the shop this when I ordered the tire, and asked them to get whichever one I needed, but they got it wrong. They will give me the ME55 I need at their cost and mount it free. That's not what I had in mind, but I expect it's the best I can get from them. I suppose it's better than what some other shops y'all talk about would do. I'd like to get $70 for it, but whatever you think is fair.... I will have the new tire in a couple of days, so the 99 will be available then. Thanks Kevin From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Jul 13 11:02:15 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA14878; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 11:02:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA00249; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 11:02:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from visuallink.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA02794; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 11:02:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LOCALNAME (ppp59.visuallink.com [206.151.68.219]) by visuallink.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA03674; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 11:03:17 -0400 Message-ID: <33C9179C.E0729CB9@visuallink.com> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 10:59:56 -0700 From: "Ivan S. Keefer" Reply-To: ivank@XXXXXX Organization: Completely UNOrganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Honda Sport Touring Association CC: Nighthawk Mailing List , ST1100 List , DC-Cycles List Subject: Remember that first time? X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Found an surprisingly well written article about motorcycles in Outsider's e-magazine. Written through the eyes of a novice, it hits upon just about every emotion involved with motorcycling. Remember the myriad of sensations and emotions felt when you first were bitten? (happens to me most every time I climb on the bike) Check it out at: http://outside.starwave.com:80/magazine/0797/9707mild.html You'll enjoy it. Seeya down the road... -- Ivan S. Keefer Winchester, VA (Shenandoah Valley, Blue Ridge Mts., motorcycles *sigh*) ivank@XXXXXX 1984 Honda CB700SC Nighthawk S blue/black (current) 1982 Suzuki GS1100L 2-tone blue (previous) AMA # 487634 Home Page http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/8926/index.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Jul 13 11:25:59 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA15008; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 11:25:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA00356; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 11:25:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pressroom.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA03383; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 11:25:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33C8B978.5A9C@pressroom.com> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 11:18:16 +0000 From: "Dr. Moze" Reply-To: DrMoze@XXXXXX Organization: The PressRoom Online Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: balt-cycles@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Virago valve cover threaded inserts? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi! One of the bolts holding a valve cover on my Virago gave up the ghost. It appears thebolts use threaded inserts that fit into the upper cylinder casing. Does anyone know where to buy a replacement, and how to install it? Thanks! -- Dr. Moze From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Jul 13 23:13:29 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id XAA23157; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 23:13:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id XAA04792; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 23:13:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pafosu1.hq.af.mil by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id XAA01065; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 23:13:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from gnissley@localhost) by pafosu1.hq.af.mil (8.6.12/8.6.12) id XAA09007; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 23:08:23 -0400 Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 22:57:55 +45722824 (EDT) From: "Gil M. Nissley" Subject: Re: Vanson perforated leather To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In-Reply-To: <970712102522_1078526771@emout20.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sat, 12 Jul 1997 KLThomas77@XXXXXX wrote: > I just went to Battleys and rode a Buell Cyclone S3. The Cyclone is an M2.The S3 is a Thunderbolt. (sorry,couldn't resist,spent too much time on wreck.moto) > Anyway, while there, I tried on the Vanson Sport perforated jacket. I own one of the old CoolTech jackets.Not as many holes as the perf jacket,but same principle.They do work excellant.You will get hot while standing still,but as soon as you start to move or you catch a breeze you cool right off.Plus it protects you from sun and wind burn. The only problem(other than price)is that it has to be _hot_ otherwise you freeze in it.If you're going to ride at night or in the mountains, take a sweater for underneath. The official BuellBoy Genes model. gnissley@XXXXXX GATB#1121 HSB#38DT Buell S1 Lightning "The Petty Hate Machine" From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 14 08:42:00 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id IAA27048; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 08:42:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id IAA08804; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 08:41:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp1.erols.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id IAA14390; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 08:41:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from default (spg-as18s41.erols.com [207.172.36.104]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA25246 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 08:41:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970714124501.006668dc@pop.erols.com> X-Sender: ranone@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 08:45:01 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Nick & Wendy Ranone Subject: Re: Vanson perforated leather At 10:57 PM 7/13/97 +45722824, you wrote: >On Sat, 12 Jul 1997 KLThomas77@XXXXXX wrote: >> I just went to Battleys and rode a Buell Cyclone S3. > > The Cyclone is an M2.The S3 is a Thunderbolt. > (sorry,couldn't resist,spent too much time on wreck.moto) > >> Anyway, while there, I tried on the Vanson Sport perforated jacket. > > I own one of the old CoolTech jackets.Not as many holes as the perf >jacket,but same principle.They do work excellant.You will get hot >while standing still,but as soon as you start to move or you catch a >breeze you cool right off.Plus it protects you from sun and wind burn. >The only problem(other than price)is that it has to be _hot_ otherwise >you freeze in it.If you're going to ride at night or in the mountains, >take a sweater for underneath. > Vanson makes a Streamliner vest that snaps into the jacket for cool weather riding. I saw the setup at Colemans. They are selling the jacket for $475 and the vest is $100. Nick Ranone From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 14 09:00:48 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA27135; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 09:00:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA09027; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 09:00:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dadc012.army.mil by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA15143; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 09:00:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by dadc012.army.mil with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) id <01BC9034.68517800@XXXXXX>; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 09:00:42 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Dysart, Glenn B., Mr., IMCEN" To: "'DC Cycles'" Subject: RE: Avon Azarro's Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 09:00:41 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 Encoding: 35 TEXT I have to agree with Collin on this. I had the stock tires on my V30 when I bought it and they were terrible. One shot in the rain was enough to determine this. I replaced them with Metzlers and no problems since. Kevin, I have had both the ME55 and the ME99 and I prefer the ME99. I think the 55 and a bit sqirmish for me. I also haven't noticed any difference in tire wear between the two either. Glenn Dysart DysarGB@XXXXXX 84 V30 Magna >> Riding aggressively they did a lot of slipping and sliding. And in the >> rain...well forget it...you'd probably get there faster walking. They are >> really slippery. > >> Really?That's odd.I've ridden in a couple of bad storms with D204's on >>my S1,and they stuck great.Best rain tires I've used,in fact.And they >>also do good on bridge gratings and ignore rain-groved roads. > >Of course,my V-twin makes power completely different from your inline >>four,but I've always liked Dunlops in the rain.I had 491's on my V30 >>Magna,591's on my VFR750 Interceptor,and D205's on my S2 and liked them cut >I have a Metzeler ME99A with ~400 miles for sale from the rear of my 87 >VFR700. It's a 130/80/18, the stock size. It is the longer-lasting of >Metzeler's 2 sport-tour tires. I need the stickier one. I told the shop >this when I ordered the tire, and asked them to get whichever one I needed, >but they got it wrong. They will give me the ME55 I need at their cost and > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 14 09:08:56 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA27197; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 09:08:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA09191; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 09:08:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xgate.usia.gov by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA15561; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 09:08:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Connect2 Message Router by xgate.usia.gov via Connect2-SMTP 4.30A; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 09:06:43 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <520CCA3301BD1110@xgate.usia.gov> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 9:03:52 -0400 From: "Adams, Bill" Sender: "Adams, Bill" X-Confirm-Reading-To: Disposition-Notification-To: Organization: USIA To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Virago valve cover threaded inserts? Importance: High MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-disposition: inline Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Connect2-SMTP 4.30A MHS/SMF to SMTP Gateway As far as I know, the bolt is a regular metric allen head that you can find at any old Home Depot or well-stocked hardware store. I had at one time planned on replacing the valve covers with new ones as the chrome was gone off them. I don't know if the threads on the heads themselves are shot...if so, they'll need to be drilled and tapped for the next larger size bolt as thread repair kits are rarely effective, especially on soft alloy. I hope it's the front valve cover and not the rear, as that would mean you'll have to drop the engine since Virago twins are not accessable from the top. Whee. Bill Adams 3D Artist/Animator '66 Land Rover S2A 109 Diesel Station Wagon, '81 Honda Goldwing 1100 Standard: "Practicing the ancient oriental art of ren-ching" From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 14 12:22:53 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA00101; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:22:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA12159; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:22:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from drquest.digex.net by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA26155; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:22:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 172.17.2.100 (pix000216.staff.digex.net [206.205.168.228]) by drquest.digex.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA09906 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:22:18 -0400 Message-ID: <33CA51FE.429E@digex.net> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:21:34 -0400 From: "Warren W. Weiss" Reply-To: wweiss@XXXXXX Organization: DIGEX: Industrial Strength Internet X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: DC Cycles Subject: Mr June?? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anybody on this list ride a purple Wing with the VA license plate "MRJUNE"?? I spotted said vehicle while on vacation out West last week...I believe it was in Utah. -- ************************************************************************ Warren W. Weiss VMI '87 DIGEX: Industrial Strength Internet Sales Engineer One DIGEX Plaza mailto:wweiss@XXXXXX Beltsville, MD 20705 http://www.digex.net From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 14 12:23:26 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA00106; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:23:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA12178; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:23:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from msexchange.calibresys.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA26211; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:23:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by MSEXCHANGE with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id <3TTTCYLM>; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:22:35 -0400 Message-ID: <8C701AD947BED011ABF300805FC1F0620343B3@MSEXCHANGE> From: Amit Chatterjie To: "'balt-cycles@XXXXXX'" , "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" Subject: Bad Vibrations Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:22:33 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) A question for the savy?!? The handlebars on my CBR1000F develop an annoying vibration. I wouldn't mind it if it were not for the fact that I have caught my right hand "sleeping" because of it. In my younger days I remember people talking of filling handlebars with foam & the like. These are clip-ons with bar end weights. Any ideas on how to deal with this problem? Amit CBR 1000F From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 14 12:39:27 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA00502; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:39:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA12527; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:39:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from u2.farm.idt.net by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA26919; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:39:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (kosmas19@localhost) by u2.farm.idt.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA14507; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:38:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:38:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Kosmas Sender: kosmas19@XXXXXX To: Wild Billy , Amit Chatterjie cc: "'balt-cycles@XXXXXX'" , "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" Subject: Re: Bad Vibrations In-Reply-To: <8C701AD947BED011ABF300805FC1F0620343B3@MSEXCHANGE> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 14 Jul 1997, Amit Chatterjie wrote: > A question for the savy?!? > > The handlebars on my CBR1000F develop an annoying vibration. I wouldn't > mind it if it were not for the fact that I have caught my right hand > "sleeping" because of it. In my younger days I remember people talking > of filling handlebars with foam & the like. These are clip-ons with bar > end weights. Any ideas on how to deal with this problem? There are some clipons that can absorb more than others but clipons compared to handlebars are transfering more anyway. If you have a problem with a CBR1000, buy a thumper for a while and then you'll appreciate your CBR more. But before you modify anything give your bike a good tune up, it will relieve some vibration. There are various tricks you can do to the rest of the bike to minimize vibration. Aluminum washers on engine mount bolts, have all the mounts also loose, lift the motor up and then tighten them, put little rubber hoses around the exhaust springs (if any), rubber mount axhaust pipes/pipe/header... etc. Also if you can find some bars/clip ons that are made out of pressing together many concentric pipes, they are the best vibration absorbing tubes. But I guess they get expensive. Maybe you can find some kind of aluminum tubing that has an outer diameter equal to the clip ons' inside diameter and shove them in there. That would do something. The 4cyl have low amplitude high frequency vibratons, while the thumpers are the other way around. You get numb with the 4s and you get your brain to turn into scrambled eggs with the other. Every time your brain moves inside your skull you loose part of its abilities, which explains dirt riders general behavior :) I know, you can't wait for fast electric bikes to come out, but patience is a virtue only few have mastered. Castor oil smell lovers would have to rinse their helmet out with their favorite perfume but EPA will get its way. > Amit > CBR 1000F KoZmas From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 14 12:56:07 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA01017; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:56:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA12693; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:50:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from micros-bh.micros.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA27977; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:50:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by micros-bh.micros.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) id MAA28123; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:49:44 -0400 Received: from micros.micros.com by micros-bh.micros.com via smap (3.2) id xma028108; Mon, 14 Jul 97 12:49:27 -0400 Received: from smtplink.micros.com (smtplink.micros.com [206.241.52.10]) by micros.micros.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/micros-2.1) with SMTP id MAA06572; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:49:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccMail by smtplink.micros.com (ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.00) id AA868899136; Mon, 14 Jul 97 12:52:18 -0500 Message-Id: <9707148688.AA868899136@smtplink.micros.com> X-Mailer: ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.00 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 97 12:41:18 -0500 From: "Brian McCoy" To: , , Subject: Re: Bad Vibrations MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, anything that adds density to the bars will help deaden the vibration. For through bars (not clip-ons) they sell something with the word 'snake' in it.. basically a tube filled with lead or sand that you place inside the handlebars.. you can do the same for youir clip-ons.. a small tube filled with lead shot and stuffed up inside the bar, held there by the bar-end will surly deaden the vibrations.. If you're concerned with weight.. never mind. Brian bmccoy@XXXXXX ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Bad Vibrations Author: Amit Chatterjie at smtplink-micros Date: 7/14/97 12:22 PM A question for the savy?!? The handlebars on my CBR1000F develop an annoying vibration. I wouldn't mind it if it were not for the fact that I have caught my right hand "sleeping" because of it. In my younger days I remember people talking of filling handlebars with foam & the like. These are clip-ons with bar end weights. Any ideas on how to deal with this problem? Amit CBR 1000F From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 14 13:07:38 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA01250; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:07:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA12942; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:07:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emout11.mail.aol.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA28838; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:07:24 -0400 (EDT) From: FakeTree@XXXXXX Received: (from root@localhost) by emout11.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id NAA18105 for dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:06:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:06:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970714130623_1312171591@emout11.mail.aol.com> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: bmw r 1200 c hey all, anyone take the test ride of the new bmw cruiser at bob's bmw this weekend? i did. it was great. any opinions? i'm smitten. i am planning to purchase in next 60 days. jb haller 1990 Suzuki VX-800 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 14 13:25:26 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA01540; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:25:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA13270; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:25:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from msexchange.calibresys.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA29523; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:25:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by MSEXCHANGE with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id <3TTTCYPJ>; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:24:21 -0400 Message-ID: <8C701AD947BED011ABF300805FC1F0620343B4@MSEXCHANGE> From: Amit Chatterjie To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" Subject: RE: Bad Vibrations Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:24:19 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) > ---------- > From: Kosmas[SMTP:kosmas19@XXXXXX] > Sent: Monday, July 14, 1997 12:38 PM > To: Wild Billy; Amit Chatterjie > Cc: 'balt-cycles@XXXXXX'; 'dc-cycles@XXXXXX' > Subject: Re: Bad Vibrations > > > > On Mon, 14 Jul 1997, Amit Chatterjie wrote: > > > > The handlebars on my CBR1000F develop an annoying vibration. > cut > But before you modify anything > give your bike a good tune up, it will relieve some vibration. > Interestingly enough I just had a tune up. The bike runs smoother but the bars vibrate more. > Maybe you can find some kind > of aluminum tubing that has an outer diameter equal to the clip ons' > inside diameter and shove them in there. That would do something. > Sounds like a good solution. I don't need to eliminate the vibrations, I just want to change their frequency. Thanks, Amit CBR1000F P.S. I noticed that responses are coming from DCCycles so I'm restricting responses to that list. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 14 13:30:08 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA01611; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:30:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA13344; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:29:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from msexchange.calibresys.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA29803; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:29:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by MSEXCHANGE with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id <3TTTCYP4>; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:29:16 -0400 Message-ID: <8C701AD947BED011ABF300805FC1F0620343B5@MSEXCHANGE> From: Amit Chatterjie To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" Subject: RE: Bad Vibrations Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:29:14 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Seems like I just need to fill the bars with something to change the vibrations to a different frequency. Your ideas sound like a good plan. Thanks, Amit CBR1000F > ---------- > From: Brian McCoy[SMTP:bmccoy@XXXXXX] > Sent: Monday, July 14, 1997 1:41 PM > To: balt-cycles@XXXXXX; dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Amit Chatterjie > Subject: Re: Bad Vibrations > > > Well, anything that adds density to the bars will help deaden the > > vibration. For through bars (not clip-ons) they sell something > with > the word 'snake' in it.. basically a tube filled with lead or > sand > that you place inside the handlebars.. you can do the same for > youir > clip-ons.. a small tube filled with lead shot and stuffed up > inside > the bar, held there by the bar-end will surly deaden the > vibrations.. > If you're concerned with weight.. never mind. > > > Brian bmccoy@XXXXXX > > > ______________________________ Reply Separator > _________________________________ > Subject: Bad Vibrations > Author: Amit Chatterjie at > smtplink-micros > Date: 7/14/97 12:22 PM > > > A question for the savy?!? > > The handlebars on my CBR1000F develop an annoying vibration. I > wouldn't > mind it if it were not for the fact that I have caught my right hand > "sleeping" because of it. In my younger days I remember people talking > > of filling handlebars with foam & the like. These are clip-ons with > bar > end weights. Any ideas on how to deal with this problem? > > Amit > CBR 1000F > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 14 13:51:10 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA01846; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:51:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA14309; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:50:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ngedns.northgrum.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA00890; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:50:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xcgca001.xcg.northgrum.com ([132.228.123.154]) by ngedns.northgrum.com (8.8.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA14543 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 10:48:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by xcgca001.xcg.northgrum.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) id <01BC905C.DBFB9420@XXXXXX>; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:50:16 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Meier, Christopher" To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" , "'Amit Chatterjie'" Subject: RE: Bad Vibrations Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:49:53 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just be sure you get the bars COMPLETELY full with the lead shot. Otherwise I would guess that you are asking for the most annoying rattle on the planet .... :-0 Later, chris ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------ Christopher A. Meier meierch@XXXXXX Northrop Grumman Corporation, Washington DC, USA 1994 RF900R AMA #470094 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------ >---------- >From: Amit Chatterjie[SMTP:achatterjie@XXXXXX] >Sent: Monday, July 14, 1997 1:29 PM >To: 'dc-cycles@XXXXXX' >Subject: RE: Bad Vibrations > >Seems like I just need to fill the bars with something to change the >vibrations to a different frequency. Your ideas sound like a good plan. > >Thanks, > >Amit >CBR1000F > >> ---------- >> From: Brian McCoy[SMTP:bmccoy@XXXXXX] >> Sent: Monday, July 14, 1997 1:41 PM >> To: balt-cycles@XXXXXX; dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Amit Chatterjie >> Subject: Re: Bad Vibrations >> >> >> Well, anything that adds density to the bars will help deaden the >> >> vibration. For through bars (not clip-ons) they sell something >> with >> the word 'snake' in it.. basically a tube filled with lead or >> sand >> that you place inside the handlebars.. you can do the same for >> youir >> clip-ons.. a small tube filled with lead shot and stuffed up >> inside >> the bar, held there by the bar-end will surly deaden the >> vibrations.. >> If you're concerned with weight.. never mind. >> >> >> Brian bmccoy@XXXXXX >> >> >> ______________________________ Reply Separator >> _________________________________ >> Subject: Bad Vibrations >> Author: Amit Chatterjie at >> smtplink-micros >> Date: 7/14/97 12:22 PM >> >> >> A question for the savy?!? >> >> The handlebars on my CBR1000F develop an annoying vibration. I >> wouldn't >> mind it if it were not for the fact that I have caught my right hand >> "sleeping" because of it. In my younger days I remember people talking >> >> of filling handlebars with foam & the like. These are clip-ons with >> bar >> end weights. Any ideas on how to deal with this problem? >> >> Amit >> CBR 1000F >> >> >> >> > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 14 13:53:39 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA01937; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:53:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA14420; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:53:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dadc012.army.mil by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA00988; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:53:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by dadc012.army.mil with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) id <01BC905D.505EA730@XXXXXX>; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:53:31 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Dysart, Glenn B., Mr., IMCEN" To: "'DC Cycles'" Subject: RE: Bad Vibrations Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:53:30 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 Encoding: 13 TEXT Don't know if it will work but how about using that expandable foam in the compressed cans? It may be to light to do the job, don't know. Glenn Dysart DysarGB@XXXXXX 84 V30 magna >>Seems like I just need to fill the bars with something to change the >>vibrations to a different frequency. Your ideas sound like a good plan. > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 14 14:33:39 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA02711; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 14:33:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA15725; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 14:33:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from quimby by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA03144; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 14:33:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jil-c_norloff by quimby (IBM OS/2 SENDMAIL VERSION 2.01/2.0) for ; id OAB243.44; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 14:32:33 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970714130320.0097d6d0@204.194.180.21> X-Sender: cnorloff@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:03:20 -0400 To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" From: Chris Norloff Subject: Re: Bad Vibrations In-Reply-To: <8C701AD947BED011ABF300805FC1F0620343B3@MSEXCHANGE> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:22 PM 7/14/97 -0400, Amit Chatterjie wrote: >A question for the savy?!? > >The handlebars on my CBR1000F develop an annoying vibration. I wouldn't >mind it if it were not for the fact that I have caught my right hand >"sleeping" because of it. In my younger days I remember people talking >of filling handlebars with foam & the like. These are clip-ons with bar >end weights. Any ideas on how to deal with this problem? A few things I've tried on my 1981 and 1982 Honda CB750F's (4-cylinder inline engine): Bar Snake (solid rubber thingy you pull into your handlebars) Useful only for the very high frequency vibrations. Not very helpful. I suspect that spray-in foam would be similar. And the big drawback of foam is that you can't take it out. Fill Handlebars with BB's better than a Bar Snake, but not great. Fill Handlebars with Lead Shot VERY helpful. Large Diameter Foam Handgrips ("Grab-On" brand) VERY helpful -- dampens the vibrations and gives my big hands something more comfortable to hang on to. Gel-filled handgrips I haven't actually tried these, but the idea sounds good. Wrist Rest ("Rykel" brand - a little curly-cue that wraps around the throttle grip). Very helpful, but I had to cut the end off to make it shorter so it's high enough to rest my hand when going down the road at 60-70mph, and doesn't get in the way of braking and using the throttle in low speed city traffic. (A friend uses a "BMW style" handgrip with a built-in wrist rest -- a molded-in flange. I think I'd have a hard time gluing the handgrip in just the right spot, but my friend is happy with his.) Throttle Lock (sometimes erroneously called a 'cruise control') Doesn't help me - I adjust speed too much in traffic and for hills and grades. In addition, I don't like it being harder to twist the throttle with the lock engaged (and it's too much trouble to lock-unlock it every time I move the throttle). Hand Position In the MSF course we teach to keep your right wrist down to make it easier to control the throttle smoothly - and that works for me. Problem is, that's just the WRONG wrist position for avoiding nasty things like Carpal Tunnel Syndrome. To reduce pressure on the inside of the wrist, you should ride with your right wrist up - very awkward for me. I do find that by intentionally not gripping the handgrips too tightly, and by pulling my hand back so the heel of my hand is not contacting the grip that I get less vibration transmitted to my hand. Motorcycle Tune To reduce vibrations caused by the bike, synchronize the carburetors, and balance the tires and wheels. Check tires and wheels to see if they're out of true. Chris Norloff From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 14 14:33:41 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA02715; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 14:33:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA15520; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 14:26:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dadc012.army.mil by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA02451; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 14:26:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by dadc012.army.mil with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) id <01BC9061.F939E640@XXXXXX>; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 14:26:52 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Dysart, Glenn B., Mr., IMCEN" To: "'DC Cycles'" Subject: RE: FYI: Brake Bleeding Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 14:26:51 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 Encoding: 16 TEXT Is anyone interested in buying these bleeders? I have at least four cars I would like to convert plus my bike. I called the manufacture and he said he would give me a 15% discount for a bulk order, maybe more depending on the number. Let me know, I'd like to order some within the next couple of weeks and I could pass the savings onto you guys as well. Glenn Dysart DysarGB@XXXXXX > >>on the COG site. You can find them at www.speedbleeder.com. Per >>SpeedBleeder - the size for Connie (only checked on '88) is 7mm x 1.0 - >> $6.50ea. > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 14 15:16:37 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA03749; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 15:16:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA17037; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 15:16:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from quackerjack.cc.vt.edu by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA05960; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 15:16:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sable.cc.vt.edu (sable.cc.vt.edu [128.173.16.30]) by quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA07944 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 15:16:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lancelot.campus.vt.edu (rkv-as3s19.erols.com [207.172.243.19]) by sable.cc.vt.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA28120 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 15:16:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970714151442.0068b95c@mail.vt.edu> X-Sender: mrubinst@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 15:14:42 +0600 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mitch Subject: Motorcycle BBS and Riding! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hey, does anyone out there have the number to that Motorcycle BBS in Maryland? I remember, they had the number posted at the MSF course in Montgomery County, but I didn't write it down. Also, is anyone up for riding this week or weekend? I just got back from 6 weeks away and am looking for a group to ride with. I ride a 96 GSXR. Thanks! Mitch From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 14 16:18:08 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA04735; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 16:18:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA17935; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 16:17:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.his.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA09343; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 16:17:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ey (pm9-200.his.com [205.252.121.200]) by mail.his.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id QAA01674 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 16:17:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33CA892A.475F@his.com> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 16:16:42 -0400 From: Dale Coyner Reply-To: dale@XXXXXX Organization: Appalachian Highways X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Motorcycle BBS and Riding! References: <3.0.1.32.19970714151442.0068b95c@mail.vt.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mitch wrote: > Hey, does anyone out there have the number to that Motorcycle BBS in > Maryland? I remember, they had the number posted at the MSF course in > Montgomery County, but I didn't write it down. I think the one you're referring to was actually in northern VA, local to the DC calling area. I used to run it. About two and a half years ago I handed it off to a long-time member of the system. He closed it down a couple of months ago citing low usage. The Internet has usurped most of the audience for such a system and mailing lists like this one have largely relegated the BBS to the annals of online historybooks. There may be another one around and it might be in Maryland. If so, perhaps someone else might be able to come up with the number? d. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 14 16:27:29 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA05042; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 16:27:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA18088; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 16:27:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emout04.mail.aol.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA10106; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 16:27:17 -0400 (EDT) From: KLThomas77@XXXXXX Received: (from root@localhost) by emout04.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id QAA13086; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 16:26:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 16:26:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970714162411_275807094@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: jolie@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Fwd: : Joke of the Day-no MC content Hey, y'all- >From the VFR list. Hope you like it. Kevin In a message dated 97-07-14 11:48:07 EDT, kilulu@XXXXXX (KILULU LODGE) writes: << An older gentleman was standing at a bus stop, observing a young man with orange, green, and blue spiked hair, a pierced nose ring and colored eye makeup. After a few moments, the young man turned to the old guy and said, "What's the matter, pops, ain't you never done anything wild?!!" The old man smiled and said, "Well, yes, I have. I once had sex with a parrot............., I couldn't help wondering if you might be my son...." >> --------------------- Forwarded message: From: kilulu@XXXXXX (KILULU LODGE) Sender: owner-vfr@XXXXXX Reply-to: vfr@XXXXXX To: vfr@XXXXXX (VFR mailing list), r.warnecke@XXXXXX (Raimar Warnecke), pak06560@XXXXXX (Sam Hock), montessori@XXXXXX (Chris Berker), cellman@XXXXXX (Dave Adams), hartmut@XXXXXX (Hartmut Ruppel), ANDREW@XXXXXX (Andrew Hepburn) Date: 97-07-14 11:48:07 EDT I couldn't resist sending you all this one, I love it! An older gentleman was standing at a bus stop, observing a young man with orange, green, and blue spiked hair, a pierced nose ring and colored eye makeup. After a few moments, the young man turned to the old guy and said, "What's the matter, pops, ain't you never done anything wild?!!" The old man smiled and said, "Well, yes, I have. I once had sex with a parrot............., I couldn't help wondering if you might be my son...." Kind Regards Katja From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 14 16:41:32 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA05549; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 16:41:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA18312; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 16:41:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp2.erols.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA11452; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 16:41:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mcmahon.j.ftdetrck ([140.139.150.30] (may be forged)) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA12263; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 16:41:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970714203731.006b253c@pop.erols.com> X-Sender: gerrymc@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 16:37:31 -0400 To: balt-cycles@XXXXXX From: Gerry McMahon Subject: Re: Bad Vibrations Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 12:22 PM 7/14/97 -0400, you wrote: >A question for the savy?!? > >The handlebars on my CBR1000F develop an annoying vibration. I wouldn't >mind it if it were not for the fact that I have caught my right hand >"sleeping" because of it. In my younger days I remember people talking >of filling handlebars with foam & the like. These are clip-ons with bar >end weights. Any ideas on how to deal with this problem? > >Amit > Hello, There is a device called the "Bar Snake" which you stuff in you bars ... or you could just fill them with lead shot from a firearms type store. Another method is to fill the bars with a good silicone, before you start get two 4" bolts and cut the heads off then fill the bars and when they're full insert the bolts in each end ... seal it all up and let it cure. This will cut down on the high frequency vibrations. Try a good pair of gloves ... I noticed some numbness in my hands after a 70 mile ride from Annapolis to Frederick with no gloves ... did the same ride yesterday with lightweight summer gloves ... no numbness, no tingling. Cushioned grips can also be a good thing. Peace, Gerry 96 XLH 1200 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 14 16:48:49 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA05766; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 16:48:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA18435; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 16:48:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rct-hq.rockcreek.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA11890; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 16:48:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rct-hq (209.8.8.6) by rct-hq.rockcreek.com (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.81) with SMTP id ; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 16:43:08 -0400 Message-ID: <33CA8FEA.D3AA4D3F@rockcreek.com> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 16:45:30 -0400 From: Christopher Haddad Reply-To: haddadc@XXXXXX Organization: Rock Creek Technologies X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: unsubscribe dc-cycles X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit unsubscribe dc-cycles From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 14 16:59:56 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA06153; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 16:59:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from calvin.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA18691; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 16:59:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by calvin.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id UAA26434; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 20:59:36 GMT Message-Id: <199707142059.UAA26434@calvin.cs.umd.edu> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0delta 6/3/97 X-uri: http://www.cs.umd.edu/~iniquity To: "Todd B Peer" cc: Joe Siegrist , dc-cycles@XXXXXX, iniquity@XXXXXX Subject: Re: clutch suggestions? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 11 Jul 1997 08:32:00 EDT." <19970711123611.AAA4915@localHost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 16:59:35 -0400 From: Joe Siegrist > Joe, You need to bleed the line just like you do with your brake > line(s). hydrolic clutch usually has more air though so use a > vacuum gun (about $40 and worth it). > > Filling the resevoir, though always good practice, merely insures > that there is fluid available to the system. I bled the clutch line after all the suggestions (Thanks everyone!) and it is working great again... Joe From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 14 17:10:09 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id RAA06546; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 17:10:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id RAA18826; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 17:09:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp02.worldbank.org by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id RAA13611; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 17:09:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mrgw.worldbank.org by worldbank.org (PMDF V5.1-8 #16195) id <01IL8G95T5348WWPEJ@XXXXXX>; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 17:08:40 EDT Received: with PMDF-MR; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 21:08:55 +0000 (GMT) MR-Received: by mta VAX12; Relayed; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 21:08:55 +0000 MR-Received: by mta SMTPGW; Relayed; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 21:08:36 +0000 Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 21:06:57 +0000 (GMT) From: Rajan Bhardvaj Subject: Re: Bad Vibrations In-reply-to: <1.5.4.32.19970714203731.006b253c@pop.erols.com> To: Gerry McMahon Cc: balt-cycles , dc-cycles Message-id: <"D1032ZWXWOHKO0*/R=WBWASH/R=A1/U=RAJAN BHARDVAJ/"@MHS> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 21:08:00 +0000 (GMT) Importance: normal Priority: normal UA-content-id: D1032ZWXWOHKO0 X400-MTS-identifier: [;55801241707991/948826@WBWASH] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 2 Amit: To state the obvious, you have had the wheels balanced? Have a decent tire? I have a Nighthawk 750 and have done 200 miles two up in one day.. no numb hands etc. I would imagine that the CB1000 is smoother than the 750. I did use gloves though. Rajan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 14 19:01:05 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id TAA10062; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 19:01:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id TAA20387; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 19:00:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bos1e.delphi.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id TAA22407; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 19:00:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [38.30.47.44] ("port 2060"@[38.30.47.44]) by delphi.com (PMDF V5.1-8 #22009) with SMTP id <01IL8K611DAO920QNF@XXXXXX> for dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 19:00:42 EDT Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 19:00:34 -0400 From: George Howell Subject: Re: bmw r 1200 c To: FakeTree@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Message-id: <01IL8K6288J6920QNF@delphi.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >anyone take the test ride of the new bmw cruiser at bob's bmw this weekend? > i did. it was great. any opinions? Went and saw it with my father. He was gonna test ride it, but he's a bit rusty (having only ridden my bike a few miles is the only riding he's done in 20 years;) and didn't want to try out a new, unfamiliar bike on those roads. But looking at the bike, I think he's definately considering it (if mom lets him avoid the Gold Wing:) Looks like a fair number of people have ridden it, given the 1000 miles on the odometer. ``` (o o) *------------oooO----(_)-------------------* |..George Howell..georgehowell@XXXXXX..| | http://people.delphi.com/~georgehowell | *--------------------------oooO------------* |__||__| || || ooO Ooo From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 14 19:03:04 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id TAA10152; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 19:03:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id TAA20406; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 19:02:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emout19.mail.aol.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id TAA22560; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 19:02:56 -0400 (EDT) From: KLThomas77@XXXXXX Received: (from root@localhost) by emout19.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id TAA09022; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 19:02:16 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 19:02:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970714185953_1827278695@emout19.mail.aol.com> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, jolie@XXXXXX Subject: Fwd: Fw: Skyway Robbery In a message dated 97-07-14 17:02:58 EDT, qsystems@XXXXXX (Mike Guillory) writes: << > From: John Swatzell > To: Honda Sport Touring Association > Subject: Skyway Robbery > Date: Friday, July 11, 1997 10:28 PM > > If you get multiple posts on this msg I'm posting it to 3 lists. Sorry > for any duplications. > > Just wanted to post what's happening on the Cherohala Skyway. This is > the new highway from Robbinsville, NC to Tellico Plains, TN. > > Last Sunday afternoon 3 of us were riding casually along near the top of > the mountain. We came upon a cage doing about 35 mph. He slowed to about > 20-25 obviously for us to pass which we did. About a mile or two down > the road a county sheriff had a roadblock set for us. We stopped and > another car came roaring up behind us and a helicopter suddenly appeared > overhead. Seems we had passed on a double yellow line. You would've > thunk we were escaped serial killers or something with all the troops > chasing us. Anyhow, we all got a 75 dollar ticket to the policeman's > ball. No matter about the guy slowing down, we should have waited for a > passing zone. > > I'm not just bitchin' about a ticket. Guess I've deserved one a lot of > times and got away with it. I just wanted to let everyone know the rest > of the story. They said they were making sure that the skyway doesn't > become another Deal's Gap. He said they don't have radar but don't take > that to mean they won't get you for speeding. I got the definite > message that they are targeting motorcyclists to discourage them from > enjoying the skyway. One deputy said it's even on the internet about the > new 50+ miles of virgin pavement. Imagine that. :-) Then he really hurt > my feelings. He said we weren't the type of riders they were really > after. They are after the "fast guys". (I ride an ST1100 and my partner > rides a ZX11). Said they don't have any trouble with the Harley guys or > the Goldwing riders. I was afraid to ask which one he thought we were. > > I suppose I'm helping them by relaying this to anyone coming this way > but I hope maybe this will help you to know what to look for. Don't let > it keep you from the new road. Just watch yer p's and q's a little > closer. This applies to anywhere you ride in Graham County NC. They > like yer money but not yer go fast motorcycles. > > John Swatzell >> --------------------- Forwarded message: From: qsystems@XXXXXX (Mike Guillory) Sender: owner-vfr@XXXXXX Reply-to: vfr@XXXXXX To: sabmag@XXXXXX (SABMAG (Sabre-Magna)), vfr@XXXXXX (VFR Board) Date: 97-07-14 17:02:58 EDT Important for you to read if you plan to ride here... ---------- > From: John Swatzell > To: Honda Sport Touring Association > Subject: Skyway Robbery > Date: Friday, July 11, 1997 10:28 PM > > If you get multiple posts on this msg I'm posting it to 3 lists. Sorry > for any duplications. > > Just wanted to post what's happening on the Cherohala Skyway. This is > the new highway from Robbinsville, NC to Tellico Plains, TN. > > Last Sunday afternoon 3 of us were riding casually along near the top of > the mountain. We came upon a cage doing about 35 mph. He slowed to about > 20-25 obviously for us to pass which we did. About a mile or two down > the road a county sheriff had a roadblock set for us. We stopped and > another car came roaring up behind us and a helicopter suddenly appeared > overhead. Seems we had passed on a double yellow line. You would've > thunk we were escaped serial killers or something with all the troops > chasing us. Anyhow, we all got a 75 dollar ticket to the policeman's > ball. No matter about the guy slowing down, we should have waited for a > passing zone. > > I'm not just bitchin' about a ticket. Guess I've deserved one a lot of > times and got away with it. I just wanted to let everyone know the rest > of the story. They said they were making sure that the skyway doesn't > become another Deal's Gap. He said they don't have radar but don't take > that to mean they won't get you for speeding. I got the definite > message that they are targeting motorcyclists to discourage them from > enjoying the skyway. One deputy said it's even on the internet about the > new 50+ miles of virgin pavement. Imagine that. :-) Then he really hurt > my feelings. He said we weren't the type of riders they were really > after. They are after the "fast guys". (I ride an ST1100 and my partner > rides a ZX11). Said they don't have any trouble with the Harley guys or > the Goldwing riders. I was afraid to ask which one he thought we were. > > I suppose I'm helping them by relaying this to anyone coming this way > but I hope maybe this will help you to know what to look for. Don't let > it keep you from the new road. Just watch yer p's and q's a little > closer. This applies to anywhere you ride in Graham County NC. They > like yer money but not yer go fast motorcycles. > > John Swatzell From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 14 20:28:05 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id UAA12993; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 20:28:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id UAA21080; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 20:27:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp1.erols.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id UAA29021; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 20:27:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from default ([205.177.147.170] (may be forged)) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA27176; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 20:27:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970714202942.006c63dc@mail.geocities.com> X-Sender: gixer@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 20:29:42 -0400 To: KLThomas77@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX, jolie@XXXXXX From: "Collin T. Fagan" Subject: Re: Fwd: Fw: Skyway Robbery In-Reply-To: <970714185953_1827278695@emout19.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Several of us CAMS types had a similar experience on the oh so famous Skyline on July 5th. The only difference is ...we were going 35 to enjoy the view, we didn't pass anyone, and we didn't get any tickets. However, one @#$hole park police followed us for over 65 miles and tried every trick in the book to catch us speeding (even though we weren't) and just ignored cagers flying by. When I get a chance, I will post the entire right up, and a copy is definitely going to the nat. park service for all the good that will do. Collin (who rides other scenic routes now) _________________________________________ Collin and Penny Fagan LTjg, U.S. Coast Guard (202) 366-0067 (work) (703) 356-4279 (home) (703) 816-7255 (pager) http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/5280/ ride.html (ride sheets) bike.html (pics of the bikes) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 14 20:34:48 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id UAA13194; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 20:34:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id UAA21140; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 20:34:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from drquest.digex.net by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id UAA29459; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 20:34:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 172.17.2.100 (pix000216.staff.digex.net [206.205.168.228]) by drquest.digex.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA11269; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 20:34:38 -0400 Message-ID: <33CAC563.895@digex.net> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 20:34:34 -0400 From: "Warren W. Weiss" Reply-To: wweiss@XXXXXX Organization: DIGEX: Industrial Strength Internet X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gerry McMahon CC: balt-cycles@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Bad Vibrations References: <1.5.4.32.19970714203731.006b253c@pop.erols.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gerry McMahon wrote: > Another method is to fill the bars with a good silicone This is the method I used after being unable to find the Bar Snake anywhere. It did take a while for the silicone to cure, however. -- ************************************************************************ Warren W. Weiss VMI '87 DIGEX: Industrial Strength Internet Sales Engineer One DIGEX Plaza mailto:wweiss@XXXXXX Beltsville, MD 20705 http://www.digex.net From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 14 21:25:47 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id VAA13985; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 21:25:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id VAA21947; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 21:25:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.clark.net by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id VAA02229; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 21:25:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from explorer2.clark.net (hacker@XXXXXX [168.143.0.5]) by mail.clark.net (8.8.5/8.6.5) with ESMTP id VAA17207; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 21:25:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Dark Hacker Received: (from hacker@localhost) by explorer2.clark.net (8.8.5/8.7.1) id VAA25814; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 21:25:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 21:25:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199707150125.VAA25814@explorer2.clark.net> To: KLThomas77@XXXXXX, cfagan@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX, jolie@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Fwd: Fw: Skyway Robbery Cc: John.Nelson@XXXXXX To: KLThomas77@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX, jolie@XXXXXX From: "Collin T. Fagan" Subject: Re: Fwd: Fw: Skyway Robbery Several of us CAMS types had a similar experience on the oh so famous Skyline on July 5th. The only difference is ...we were going 35 to enjoy the view, we didn't pass anyone, and we didn't get any tickets. However, one @#$hole park police followed us for over 65 miles and tried every trick in the book to catch us speeding (even though we weren't) and just ignored cagers flying by. When I get a chance, I will post the entire This isn't law enforcement... its fishing for your monthly quota. Why wasn't this asshole going after aggresive drivers or speeders or the cagers that cause the kind of hideous accidents we saw on the beltway last night? Geeze this makes me sick.... - Hacker From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 15 00:14:25 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id AAA15504; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 00:14:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id AAA24009; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 00:14:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pafosu1.hq.af.mil by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id AAA08273; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 00:14:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from gnissley@localhost) by pafosu1.hq.af.mil (8.6.12/8.6.12) id AAA17273; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 00:09:24 -0400 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 00:03:10 +45722824 (EDT) From: "Gil M. Nissley" Subject: Re: Bad Vibrations To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970714203731.006b253c@pop.erols.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 14 Jul 1997, Gerry McMahon wrote: > Try a good pair of gloves ... I noticed some numbness in my hands after a 70 > mile ride from Annapolis to Frederick with no gloves ... did the same ride > yesterday with lightweight summer gloves ... no numbness, no tingling. They actually make gloves with gel in the palms to dampen vibes.Check out the accessory ads in moto mags. The official BuellBoy Genes model. gnissley@XXXXXX GATB#1121 HSB#38DT Buell S1 Lightning "The Petty Hate Machine" From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 15 00:23:28 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id AAA15629; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 00:23:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id AAA24195; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 00:23:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.his.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id AAA08401; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 00:23:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ey (pm9-203.his.com [205.252.121.203]) by mail.his.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id AAA24850 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 00:23:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33CAFAEE.3D72@his.com> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 00:22:06 -0400 From: Dale Coyner Reply-To: dale@XXXXXX Organization: Appalachian Highways X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Camera mounts Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All: I recall seeing some type of shoulder harness device for holding a camcorder advertised irregularly in American Motorcyclist a few years back. Does anyone know if this product is still being made or distributed in the States? d. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 15 00:27:52 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id AAA15652; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 00:27:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id AAA24245; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 00:27:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emout13.mail.aol.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id AAA08462; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 00:27:44 -0400 (EDT) From: KLThomas77@XXXXXX Received: (from root@localhost) by emout13.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id AAA06156; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 00:25:50 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 00:25:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970715002543_1657312488@emout13.mail.aol.com> To: vfr@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX, jolie@XXXXXX Subject: 87 VFR not for sale Hey, y'all- Thanks to all who responded to my 87 VFR for sale. The 86 VFR750 I wanted is no longer available, so I'll have to keep my 87. My 92, however is still very much for sale, if you want a project. Kevin From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 15 06:57:24 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id GAA17978; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 06:57:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id GAA26244; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 06:57:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from portal.visa.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id GAA14581; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 06:57:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by portal.visa.com id AA17153 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for dc-cycles@XXXXXX); Tue, 15 Jul 1997 03:57:02 -0700 Received: by portal.visa.com (Protected-side Proxy Mail Agent-1); Tue, 15 Jul 1997 03:57:02 -0700 Message-Id: X-Ms-Tnef-Correlator: From: "Jordan, Michael" To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: RE: Motorcycle BBS and Riding! Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 03:55:27 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 Encoding: 25 TEXT, 48 UUENCODE X-Ms-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00 >About two and a half years ago I handed it off to a long-time member of >the system. He closed it down a couple of months ago citing low usage. >The Internet has usurped most of the audience for such a system and >mailing lists like this one have largely relegated the BBS to the annals >of online historybooks. Dale (as a former caller to your & Brian's BBS) I remain amazed at how quickly the whole BBS scene vanished almost overnight. The WWW appears to be the electronic equivalent of WalMart overwhelming the local "Mom & Pops". I'm not sure if what we have now is better... Time will tell Michael Jordan '86 SRX-6 '93 GSX 1100GP AMA IBA etc. begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(AH*`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0F `0`A````1C U,CE% M0CA$1$9#1# Q,3DQ1C0P,# P1C8S0D-"1#8`4 6-L92!"0E,@86YD(%)I9&EN9R$`^@D! M`Y &`.0&```E````"P`"``$````#`"X``````$ `.0" @.2:#9&\`1X`< `! M````'P```%)%.B!-;W1O67K$%$78&<74$D7P1> "8!T(&D%0&\!(!<@%U$@TPD` M%0`M= =Q( > !M!_!) 9<0JB"H$4HA95%=YT(F@:D'-YA':1_%V(A[R+_`, #$"#S! !T^P0@%$!K&I =8 0` M&7 DD"T7P78:D M@ !0AA("8ML \MP@3P"? :D'8`< 0`'7 =%Y%L M)90L, 2@:6=H;G0R4#-)) )7/, 78'#_)5 80AG!&N =4RSQ%J #8/T#`&,^ M$#AA.B ?L (P'])Z5P= 30K .P0Y("R@;8\@\AUB"0`U$2 B30-P037Q4&]P M``& "" &``````# ````````1@````!4A0```0````0` M```X+C ``P`"@ @@!@``````P ```````$8``````84````````+``2 "" & M``````# ````````1@`````.A0````````,`!H (( 8``````, ```````!& M`````!&%`````````P`'@ @@!@``````P ```````$8`````&(4````````> M``B "" &``````# ````````1@`````VA0```0````$`````````'@`)@ @@ M!@``````P ```````$8`````-X4```$````!`````````!X`"H (( 8````` M`, ```````!&`````#B%```!`````0`````````#`"8```````,`-@`````` M`@'Y/P$````>`````````-RG0,C 0A :M+D(`"LOX8(!`````````"X````> M`/@_`0```!4```!3>7-T96T@061M:6YI Date: Monday, 14-Jul-97 11:22 PM > > From: Dale Coyner \ Internet: (dale@XXXXXX) > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX \ Internet: (dc-cycles@XXXXXX) > > Subject: Camera mounts > > All: > > I recall seeing some type of shoulder harness device for holding a > camcorder advertised irregularly in American Motorcyclist a few years > back. Does anyone know if this product is still being made or > distributed in the States? > > d. -------- REPLY, End of original message -------- From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 15 09:36:59 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA18979; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 09:36:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA27481; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 09:36:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from micros-bh.micros.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA20198; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 09:36:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by micros-bh.micros.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) id JAA07644 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 09:35:45 -0400 Received: from micros.micros.com by micros-bh.micros.com via smap (3.2) id xmab07382; Tue, 15 Jul 97 09:35:24 -0400 Received: from smtplink.micros.com (smtplink.micros.com [206.241.52.10]) by micros.micros.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/micros-2.1) with SMTP id JAA20203; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 09:32:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccMail by smtplink.micros.com (ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.00) id AA868973736; Tue, 15 Jul 97 09:35:38 -0500 Message-Id: <9707158689.AA868973736@smtplink.micros.com> X-Mailer: ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.00 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 97 09:30:19 -0500 From: "Brian McCoy" To: , Cc: Subject: Re[2]: Camera mounts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The most interesting camera mount I've seen was this grizlied looking gent (long grey hair and beard), on an old, beat up looking Kawi of some sort, rideing through some great back-roads in Montana... with it 'duck' taped to his lid... it kinda flopped if he moved his head while moving, but it was true point and shoot.. I got a kick out of buying this guy lunch and hearing his tales of travels... Sometimes you meet the nicest people in Montana... Brian McCoy bmccoy@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 15 10:31:59 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA19622; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 10:31:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA28178; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 10:30:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from portal.visa.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA22543; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 10:30:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by portal.visa.com id AA25126 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for dc-cycles@XXXXXX); Tue, 15 Jul 1997 07:30:01 -0700 Received: by portal.visa.com (Protected-side Proxy Mail Agent-1); Tue, 15 Jul 1997 07:30:01 -0700 Message-Id: X-Ms-Tnef-Correlator: From: "Jordan, Michael" To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: RE: Camera mounts Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 07:27:57 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 Encoding: 17 TEXT, 43 UUENCODE X-Ms-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00 Dale, I remember (from my photography days) a device called a "Cuban Hitch" (I believe - memories hazy). This was a device comprised of straps and elastic that held a camera close to the chest and would allow it to be moved to a photo shooting position (via the elastic) and would return to the chest position and remain there (under normal gyrations). Haven't seen them for quite a while, but then again, haven't been looking for them either. Michael Jordan '86 SRX-6 '93 GSX 1100 AMA IBA etc begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(AL.`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0F `0`A````-30P-44V M-$5&0T9#1# Q,3DQ1C0P,# P1C8S0D-"1#8`/@7-(*2!A%^!E=@W@92P@ M8P= %;!D&$$B0T1U8@.12&ET$# B5Q:0%? 68&P(D'88P"T_%O 6( 6P") $ M(!! >GD@*2X@5&@$`"!W[F$$(!A8`W!P!1 00&-#W"0`0@A81"W$@\@EP%I!U M'I"=%G%N!; `P ,@9WD7D#LE$A@@+@JB"H0*@$AA^1K0;B<%0!!P"? @\A;@ M``& "" &``````# ````````1@````!4A0```0````0` M```X+C ``P`"@ @@!@``````P ```````$8``````84````````+``2 "" & M``````# ````````1@`````.A0````````,`!H (( 8``````, ```````!& M`````!&%`````````P`'@ @@!@``````P ```````$8`````&(4````````> M``B "" &``````# ````````1@`````VA0```0````$`````````'@`)@ @@ M!@``````P ```````$8`````-X4```$````!`````````!X`"H (( 8````` M`, ```````!&`````#B%```!`````0`````````#`"8```````,`-@`````` M`@'Y/P$````>`````````-RG0,C 0A :M+D(`"LOX8(!`````````"X````> M`/@_`0```!4```!3>7-T96T@061M:6YI X-Sender: mrubinst@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 11:36:32 +0600 To: dale@XXXXXX From: Mitch Subject: Re: Camera mounts Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In-Reply-To: <33CAFAEE.3D72@his.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This doesn't answer your question, but I thought you might find it interesting... I attend Virginia Tech and last year we started the Virginia Tech Motorcycle Club. One of the things we did for publicity events was mount a camcorder on a CBR900. We sort of used a foam base and straps to keep it all in place. It took up about the space of one of those tank mounted packs. Anyway, we would go out on group rides and the camera-rider would hit record as we took off. Got some great action. I don't know exactly what you're looking for with the shoulder mounted thing, but mounting the camera on the tank is feasible. Mitch At 12:22 AM 7/15/97 -0400, you wrote: >All: > >I recall seeing some type of shoulder harness device for holding a >camcorder advertised irregularly in American Motorcyclist a few years >back. Does anyone know if this product is still being made or >distributed in the States? > >d. > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 15 11:50:26 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA20119; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 11:50:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA29312; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 11:48:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from quackerjack.cc.vt.edu by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA25713; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 11:48:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sable.cc.vt.edu (sable.cc.vt.edu [128.173.16.30]) by quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA01720 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 11:47:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lancelot.campus.vt.edu (rkv-as3s13.erols.com [207.172.243.13]) by sable.cc.vt.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA15793 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 11:47:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970715114544.00691e74@mail.vt.edu> X-Sender: mrubinst@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 11:45:44 +0600 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mitch Subject: Riding this saturday Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hey, all, I'm trying to get more people to come on our ride this saturday! So far there's only two of us. The more the merrier, I always say. E-mail me back if you are up for riding with us! The two of us both live in the Potomac/Bethesda MD area. But if this isn't good, a more convenient meeting place should be no problem. Mitch 96 Gsxr From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 15 13:25:49 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA23278; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 13:25:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA02059; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 13:23:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.emforum.org by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA03255; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 13:23:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www ([166.112.200.152]) by www.emforum.org (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA3332; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 13:22:12 -0400 Sender: "K. Patrick Mahoney" Message-ID: <33CBB1C4.3686@emforum.org> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 13:22:12 -0400 From: "K. Patrick Mahoney" Organization: FEMA X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; SunOS 5.5 sun4m) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: MC Rentals? References: <2.2.32.19970715111154.016e8744@pop.fedworld.gov> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alan Willard wrote: > > Does anyone know where we could rent a cruiser style > bike for a few days? > > This is weird I was just logining on from work for this same Question a girl I work with was asking me if there was anywhere in the DC area for her boyfriend to rent a bike. Thanks. bonez@XXXXXX patrick.mahoney@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 15 13:48:32 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA24962; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 13:48:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA02534; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 13:48:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from quimby by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA06640; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 13:48:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jil-c_norloff by quimby (IBM OS/2 SENDMAIL VERSION 2.01/2.0) for ; id NAA315.63; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 13:47:23 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970715134714.0094eb00@204.194.180.21> X-Sender: cnorloff@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 13:47:14 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Chris Norloff Subject: Re: MC Rentals? In-Reply-To: <33CBB1C4.3686@emforum.org> References: <2.2.32.19970715111154.016e8744@pop.fedworld.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> Does anyone know where we could rent a cruiser style >> bike for a few days? I know of no place in the DC area you can do this. It's possible you could (nod, wink) arrange for a demo from a friendly dealer. Search the 'net for "motorcycle and rental" and you'll come up with quite a few places, but none near here, I think. Chris Norloff From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 15 13:55:00 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA25325; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 13:54:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA02638; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 13:54:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ups.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA07445; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 13:54:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from roadnet.ups.com by ups.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA13755; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 13:51:50 -0400 Received: from smtpgwy.roadnet.ups.com by roadnet.ups.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA14959; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 13:50:54 -0400 Received: from ccMail by smtpgwy.roadnet.ups.com (ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.00) id AA868989610; Tue, 15 Jul 97 14:00:21 -0500 Message-Id: <9707158689.AA868989610@smtpgwy.roadnet.ups.com> X-Mailer: ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.00 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 97 13:54:48 -0500 From: "Matt Plowman" To: , Cc: Subject: Re[2]: Bad Vibrations MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Try a good pair of gloves ... I noticed some numbness in my hands after a 70 >mile ride from Annapolis to Frederick with no gloves ... did the same ride >yesterday with lightweight summer gloves ... no numbness, no tingling. Hmmm, Just last night I receive a new JCWhipmee Motorcycle only catalog in the mail. On the last glossy page or so they are advertising a set of gloves with what they call a "soft Gel pad" in the palm. They claim it does a lot for vibe dampening. They come in a few colors and are 20 bucks/pair. Matt From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 15 14:54:00 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA29321; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 14:53:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA03872; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 14:53:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fellspt.charm.net by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA14969; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 14:53:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from trust.edtrust.org (edtrust.org [207.226.139.66]) by fellspt.charm.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA28269 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 14:53:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by edtrust.org with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) id <3THBXSW8>; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 14:53:35 -0400 Message-ID: <52F9B0FA2FF2D011B17C00A0C91A5613A3@edtrust.org> From: Jeremy Wallace To: "'aj'" , "'andy'" <54tierney@XXXXXX>, "'ange'" , "'arnn'" , "'beller'" , "'belrod'" , "'ben'" , "'Berman'" <76533.665@XXXXXX>, "'bernstein'" , "'boyerGirl'" , "'brittian'" , "'bru'" , "'canada'" , "'carla'" , "'caroline'" , "'Caterina'" , "'Chatkan'" , "'Christy'" , "'cracker'" , "'dad'" , "'daly'" , "'Daniel'" <104527.153@XXXXXX>, "'DC Cycles'" , "'derry'" , "'desilva'" , "'Determann'" <75014.400@XXXXXX>, "'Egen'" , "'Elise'" , "'ely'" , "'Etan'" , "'ettinger'" , "'Flowers'" , "'flynn'" , Forms , "'franco'" <15marinaro@XXXXXX>, "'frank'" , "'Fritz'" , "'garcia'" , "'Ginny'" <103176.3337@XXXXXX>, "'happylovincouple'" , "'hawk'" , "'hawk listserv'" , "'Healy'" , "'imp'" , "'jav'" , "'jd'" , "'Jeff Clark'" , "'jj'" , "'jlove'" , "'Joelle'" , "'john'" , "'keith'" , "'Kendra'" , "'Kirsten'" , "'kristin'" , "'Lauren'" , "'Mandy'" , "'mark'" , "'Markley'" , "'matthew'" , "'mazza'" , "'McGlone'" , "'megan'" , "'Milensky'" , "'mom'" , "'money'" , "'moore'" , "'neil'" , "'Norton'" , "'pablo'" , "'pat'" , "'Phil'" , "'raflo'" , "'roach'" , "'robison'" , "'Rod'" , "'rogers'" , "'rose'" , "'sam'" , "'Sanchez'" , "'schmier'" , "'scoop'" , "'seamus'" , "'season'" , "'seth'" , "'Shane'" , "'sister'" , "'tcarey'" , "'Thomas H. Gimer'" , "'tim'" , "'toft'" , "'tom mortenson'" , "'Trent'" , "'vedova'" , "'veronica'" , "'weiner'" , "'wolf'" , rich , Amy Wilkins , James Guitard , Jan Somerville , Kati Haycock , Nevin Brown , Patte Barth , Crystall Pinkney , Eleanor Dougherty , Karen Mora , Pat Martin , Paul Ruiz , Ruth Mitchell , Sonja Wilson , Stephanie Robinson , Wanda Robinson Subject: jeremy's new e-mail address Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 14:53:28 -0400 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/plain I have a new e-mail address: jwallace@XXXXXX you can use it starting now. That's cause I'm moving to nyc. Crazy how this world works. I'll be there starting the 28th of july. ____________________ Jeremy Wallace The Education Trust Suite 200 1725 K Street Washington, DC 20006 v: (202) 293-1217 f: (202) 293-2605 jwallace@XXXXXX http:\\www.edtrust.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 15 15:01:13 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA29772; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:01:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA04041; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:00:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from micros-bh.micros.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA15933; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:00:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by micros-bh.micros.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) id OAA19142 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 14:59:57 -0400 Received: from micros.micros.com by micros-bh.micros.com via smap (3.2) id xma019129; Tue, 15 Jul 97 14:59:28 -0400 Received: from smtplink.micros.com (smtplink.micros.com [206.241.52.10]) by micros.micros.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/micros-2.1) with SMTP id OAA26470; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 14:59:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccMail by smtplink.micros.com (ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.00) id AA868993327; Tue, 15 Jul 97 15:02:09 -0500 Message-Id: <9707158689.AA868993327@smtplink.micros.com> X-Mailer: ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.00 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 97 14:57:28 -0500 From: "Brian McCoy" To: , Subject: Re: Riding this saturday MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The blasphemy of rideing on a race weekend.. shame on you... CCS Regional sprints, this weekend.. Summit point raceway, be there..... Brian McCoy ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Riding this saturday Author: Mitch at smtplink-micros Date: 7/15/97 11:45 AM Hey, all, I'm trying to get more people to come on our ride this saturday! So far there's only two of us. The more the merrier, I always say. E-mail me back if you are up for riding with us! The two of us both live in the Potomac/Bethesda MD area. But if this isn't good, a more convenient meeting place should be no problem. Mitch 96 Gsxr From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 15 15:16:28 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA00529; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:16:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA04641; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:16:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emout15.mail.aol.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA17416; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:16:19 -0400 (EDT) From: SRFox@XXXXXX Received: (from root@localhost) by emout15.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id PAA13390 for dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:15:48 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:15:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970715151546_458353043@emout15.mail.aol.com> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Summit Point 7/19 BTW there is going to be some car racing going at Summit Point this weekend also. Legends cars, which are 5/8 replicas of 30's/40's Ford race cars (early Nascar) with 1200 Yamaha motors (or similiar). I saw them at Ferrari day and was surprised at how fast they can get around the old circuit. They are about $12k complete. Try http://www.digital.net/tkracing/legendscars2.html for some background on these cars. Big deal from Charlotte south and out to Texas. Steve From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 15 15:32:20 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA01146; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:32:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA04818; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:32:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from msexchange.calibresys.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA18907; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:32:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by MSEXCHANGE with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id <3TTTC5QL>; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:31:19 -0400 Message-ID: <8C701AD947BED011ABF300805FC1F0620343B8@MSEXCHANGE> From: Amit Chatterjie To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" Subject: RE: Camera mounts Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:31:19 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) > ---------- > From: Dale Coyner[SMTP:dale@XXXXXX] > Reply To: dale@XXXXXX > Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 1997 12:22 AM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Camera mounts > > Just a thought: > > Ideally you would want to keep the lens behind a fairing to guard > against wind ...and an anatomical macro perspective of a bug splatter. > Talk about in your face photography! > > I have a video camera with twin lenses. The second lense connects to > the main camera and is about > 3" long. The size of a thumb! It would make an ideal "helmet cam" if > the connecting cord were long enough. Unfortunately it's an expensive > camera so I have never wanted to subject it to the vibrations of a > motorcycle. I think those are the size of the camera's they use > mounted on the F1 race bikes when you get the track view. > > Amit > CBR1000 > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 15 18:17:33 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id SAA07172; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 18:17:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id SAA07883; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 18:17:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from quackerjack.cc.vt.edu by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id SAA03222; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 18:16:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sable.cc.vt.edu (sable.cc.vt.edu [128.173.16.30]) by quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA29361; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 18:16:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lancelot.campus.vt.edu (dam-as1s47.erols.com [207.172.137.47]) by sable.cc.vt.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA04319; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 18:16:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970715181335.00694d4c@mail.vt.edu> X-Sender: mrubinst@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 18:13:35 +0600 To: "Brian McCoy" From: Mitch Subject: Re: Riding this saturday Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In-Reply-To: <9707158689.AA868993327@smtplink.micros.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Maybe Summit Point would be our destination...? But I think that would be a might far to go... So far we've got 4 riders on the ride for Saturday. Two in Manasses area, Two in Bethesda Area. Don't have a set destination yet, suggestions were either 211/Skyline Drive or Harper's Ferry/WV. Mitch At 02:57 PM 7/15/97 -0500, you wrote: > > The blasphemy of rideing on a race weekend.. shame on you... > > > CCS Regional sprints, this weekend.. Summit point raceway, be > there..... > > > > Brian McCoy > > >______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ >Subject: Riding this saturday >Author: Mitch at smtplink-micros >Date: 7/15/97 11:45 AM > > >Hey, all, > I'm trying to get more people to come on our ride this saturday! So far >there's only two of us. The more the merrier, I always say. E-mail me >back if you are up for riding with us! The two of us both live in the >Potomac/Bethesda MD area. But if this isn't good, a more convenient >meeting place should be no problem. > > Mitch > 96 Gsxr > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 15 18:27:17 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id SAA07515; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 18:27:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id SAA07978; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 18:27:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from drquest.digex.net by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id SAA04072; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 18:27:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 172.17.2.100 (pix000199.staff.digex.net [206.205.168.211]) by drquest.digex.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA13184 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 18:27:02 -0400 Message-ID: <33CBF8FA.79AB@digex.net> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 18:26:06 -0400 From: "Warren W. Weiss" Reply-To: wweiss@XXXXXX Organization: DIGEX: Industrial Strength Internet X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Motorcycle BBS and Riding! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jordan, Michael wrote: > Dale (as a former caller to your & Brian's BBS) I remain amazed at > how quickly the whole BBS scene vanished almost overnight. I'm a former caller to the BBS as well. In fact, I have a Motorcyclist BBS MOUSE PAD! One of the more aesthetically pleasing ones, too. I'm hanging on to it as a collector's item. :) -- ************************************************************************ Warren W. Weiss VMI '87 DIGEX: Industrial Strength Internet Sales Engineer One DIGEX Plaza mailto:wweiss@XXXXXX Beltsville, MD 20705 http://www.digex.net From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 15 19:19:31 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id TAA09170; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 19:19:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id TAA08279; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 19:19:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cap1.CapAccess.org by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id TAA07970; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 19:19:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from garicao@localhost) by cap1.CapAccess.org (8.6.12/8.6.10) id TAA13952; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 19:24:42 -0400 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 19:24:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Garcia Oliver To: Brian McCoy cc: dale@XXXXXX, Linda.Tanner@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re[2]: Camera mounts In-Reply-To: <9707158689.AA868973736@smtplink.micros.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Years ago we attached a super-8 to an old helmet with sheet metal screws. Didn't flop around, but vibration made for blurry pix (we did this on the dirt). --garcia On Tue, 15 Jul 1997, Brian McCoy wrote: > > The most interesting camera mount I've seen was this grizlied looking > gent (long grey hair and beard), on an old, beat up looking Kawi of > some sort, rideing through some great back-roads in Montana... with it > 'duck' taped to his lid... it kinda flopped if he moved his head while > moving, but it was true point and shoot.. I got a kick out of buying > this guy lunch and hearing his tales of travels... > > Sometimes you meet the nicest people in Montana... > > > > Brian McCoy bmccoy@XXXXXX > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 15 21:08:55 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id VAA11746; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 21:08:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id VAA08693; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 21:08:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp1.erols.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id VAA14802; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 21:08:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from default ([205.177.147.170] (may be forged)) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA07471; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 21:08:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970715211037.006c7900@mail.geocities.com> X-Sender: gixer@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 21:10:37 -0400 To: Mitch , "Brian McCoy" From: "Collin T. Fagan" Subject: Re: Riding this saturday Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970715181335.00694d4c@mail.vt.edu> References: <9707158689.AA868993327@smtplink.micros.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 06:13 PM 7/15/97 +0600, Mitch wrote: >Maybe Summit Point would be our destination...? But I think that would be >a might far to go... >So far we've got 4 riders on the ride for Saturday. Two in Manasses area, >Two in Bethesda Area. Don't have a set destination yet, suggestions were >either 211/Skyline Drive or Harper's Ferry/WV. Food for thought....How bout races then down 81 to 211 on the way home.... The cornerworker types would probably get left out since they have to stay and clean stuff up (sorry Brian), but the rest of us... Otherwise, I have a handful of ride sheets for the area on my web page (some splitting the distance between Manassas and Bethesda) I also have the modified John/Collin 400 mile ride from hell based off my riding last weekend (to include the turn we missed :) that I will write up tomorrow....(softball kicked my butt and I'm taking a shower, food, then bed) Collin _________________________________________ Collin and Penny Fagan LTjg, U.S. Coast Guard (202) 366-0067 (work) (703) 356-4279 (home) (703) 816-7255 (pager) http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/5280/ ride.html (ride sheets) bike.html (pics of the bikes) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 15 22:12:56 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA12143; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 22:12:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA09434; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 22:12:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.his.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA17054; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 22:12:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ey (pm9-169.his.com [205.252.121.169]) by mail.his.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id WAA26959; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 22:12:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33A4A0CF.7F67@his.com> Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 22:11:27 -0400 From: Dale Coyner Reply-To: dale@XXXXXX Organization: Appalachian Highways X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wweiss@XXXXXX CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Motorcycle BBS and Riding! References: <33CBF8FA.79AB@digex.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Warren W. Weiss wrote: > I'm a former caller to the BBS as well. In fact, I have a Motorcyclist > BBS MOUSE PAD! One of the more aesthetically pleasing ones, too. I'm > hanging on to it as a collector's item. :) I've still got a small stash of those, about a dozen or so. I sold a lot of those things. I can't recall how many I ordered, but it was a huge box full. Ahh, the good ol's days. :-) d. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 15 22:18:44 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA12170; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 22:18:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA09500; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 22:18:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.his.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA17339; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 22:18:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ey (pm9-169.his.com [205.252.121.169]) by mail.his.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id WAA00110; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 22:18:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33A4A22D.5B8D@his.com> Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 22:17:17 -0400 From: Dale Coyner Reply-To: dale@XXXXXX Organization: Appalachian Highways X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Linda Tanner CC: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Camera mounts References: <19970715130431.AAA12913@[166.32.84.50]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Linda Tanner wrote: > I've never seen it advertised. Is it more than just straps and velcro?? If > not, it could be fabricated without too much difficulty. It looked like there was some curved and padded assembly that fit over the shoulder along with various straps to secure it around the upper chest. Then there was some sort of mount embedded in the harness to fix the camera to. Didn't look complicated, but I'm not sure I'd know how to do it. d. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 15 22:27:46 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA12220; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 22:27:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA09571; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 22:27:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.his.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA17426; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 22:27:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ey (pm9-169.his.com [205.252.121.169]) by mail.his.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id WAA04792; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 22:27:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33A4A44D.1A8B@his.com> Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 22:26:21 -0400 From: Dale Coyner Reply-To: dale@XXXXXX Organization: Appalachian Highways X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mitch CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Camera mounts References: <3.0.1.32.19970715113632.0068c690@mail.vt.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mitch wrote: > I attend Virginia Tech and last year we started the Virginia Tech > Motorcycle Club. One of the things we did for publicity events was mount a > camcorder on a CBR900. We sort of used a foam base and straps to keep it > all in place. It took up about the space of one of those tank mounted That's a thought, I'll have to try that. I've considered it, but ideally I'd like to find a way to get the camera above the fairing for an unobstructed view. Of course it might help if I would clean my windscreen once in a while... d. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 15 22:53:37 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA12408; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 22:53:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA09693; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 22:53:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from quackerjack.cc.vt.edu by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA18352; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 22:53:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sable.cc.vt.edu (sable.cc.vt.edu [128.173.16.30]) by quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA11556 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 22:53:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lancelot.campus.vt.edu (dam-as1s47.erols.com [207.172.137.47]) by sable.cc.vt.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA26026 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 22:53:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970715225014.00690a40@mail.vt.edu> X-Sender: mrubinst@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 22:50:14 +0600 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mitch Subject: Re: Riding this saturday In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970715211037.006c7900@mail.geocities.com> References: <3.0.1.32.19970715181335.00694d4c@mail.vt.edu> <9707158689.AA868993327@XXXXXX> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Information is coming in and a plan is starting to come together. So for those who want to join us on Saturday, here's my tentative layout: Meet at Montgomery Mall, Bethesda MD Saturday Morning. Head on up to Harper's Ferry and Summit Point. Watch bikes go really fast around the track for a while. Then head on down 81/211 Saturday afternoon/evening. It looks like we are up to 6 riders, 7 counting Mr. Fagan. Mitch At 09:10 PM 7/15/97 -0400, you wrote: >At 06:13 PM 7/15/97 +0600, Mitch wrote: >>Maybe Summit Point would be our destination...? But I think that would be >>a might far to go... >>So far we've got 4 riders on the ride for Saturday. Two in Manasses area, >>Two in Bethesda Area. Don't have a set destination yet, suggestions were >>either 211/Skyline Drive or Harper's Ferry/WV. > > >Food for thought....How bout races then down 81 to 211 on the way home.... >The cornerworker types would probably get left out since they have to stay >and clean stuff up (sorry Brian), but the rest of us... >Otherwise, I have a handful of ride sheets for the area on my web page >(some splitting the distance between Manassas and Bethesda) >I also have the modified John/Collin 400 mile ride from hell based off my >riding last weekend (to include the turn we missed :) that I will write up >tomorrow....(softball kicked my butt and I'm taking a shower, food, then bed) >Collin >_________________________________________ >Collin and Penny Fagan >LTjg, U.S. Coast Guard >(202) 366-0067 (work) >(703) 356-4279 (home) >(703) 816-7255 (pager) >http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/5280/ >ride.html (ride sheets) >bike.html (pics of the bikes) > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 15 22:54:11 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA12413; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 22:54:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA09705; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 22:54:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pafosu1.hq.af.mil by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA18364; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 22:54:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from gnissley@localhost) by pafosu1.hq.af.mil (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA24066; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 22:49:24 -0400 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 22:45:29 +45722824 (EDT) From: "Gil M. Nissley" Subject: Invitation to Sunday's ride (fwd) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hey all, A friend I met at Sunday's memorial ride is putting together a ride for this Sunday.I'd love to go,but have to work.Here's the forwarded message he sent me. The official BuellBoy Genes model. gnissley@XXXXXX GATB#1121 HSB#38DT Buell S1 Lightning "The Petty Hate Machine" ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 11:50:33 -0400 (EDT) From: AWheat@XXXXXX To: gnissley@XXXXXX, AWheat@XXXXXX Subject: Invitation to Sunday's ride Hello again fellow area riders, I think you will all like the ride I have planned for you on this Sunday. Well, I didn't plan this one, but we're meeting up with the Fairfax VOC for a fantastic ride to Solomon's Island for an all-you-can-eat seafood and prime rib buffet. It's their 3rd annual ride to Solomon's Island at the Catamaran's Restaurant. Here's what's on the menu: PRIME RIB STEAMED SHRIMP FRIED CLAMS BROILED FLOUNDER SMOKED CHICKEN ROLLS AND BUTTER FRUIT SALAD COFFEE, TEA, OR SODA (Alchoholic beverages not included) If you like what you hear, read on... Here are more details on the VOC's buffet ride: The cost of the ride (includes the buffet) is $15.00 If you wish to purchase a poker run hand, the cost is $10.00 (extra card $1.00) Cash prizes for the four best poker hands There will be a 50/50 drawing (which means the winner gets a hand full of cash!) T-Shirts will be on sale for $13.00 each. The grand prize will be from the Comfort Inn of Fairfax which will include one night in jacuzzi suite with continental breakfast. There will be 17 door prizes from local merchants: 1. Fairfax Cycles - Oil change and filter 2. Cycle Therapy of Manassas - Oil change and filter 3. Ourisman Toyota of Fairfax - Oil change & filter (Toyotas only) 4. Burke Centre Midas - Oil change and filter 5. Burke Centre Mobil - Oil change, filter, and lube 6. Nick's Pizzeria of Fairfax - Dinner for two ($20.00 value) 7. Thunder USA of Woodbridge - surprise (Means I have no clue what it is) 8. Judi's Pet Care of Woodbridge - surprise 9. $25.00 Mobil gas card 10, 11, 12. Solomon's Event T-Shirt from Virago Owner's Club of Fairfax 13. Fanny Pack from Virago Owner's Club of Fairfax 14. Rain Suit 15,16. Domino's Pizza - Any pizza/any size 17. Roy Rogers - surprise For those of you on my list who presently do not have a bike, you can ride behind the group in your car on this one (all entry fees apply to cars, too). For more details on this ride, call VOC coordinator Dave Fisk at 703-815-0005 (tell him Alan sent ya). If you would like to ride with us, WE WILL BE MEETING IN FRONT OF THE MANASSAS MALL AT THE BURGER KING. Be there at 8:30am if you want to have breakfast with us. We will depart by 9:15am to join up with the Fairfax VOC for their event. Feel free to invite whoever you like and forward this email, too. I hope to see you all there. Thanks, Alan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 16 06:29:54 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id GAA15251; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 06:29:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id GAA16792; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 06:29:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp2.erols.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id GAA25105; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 06:29:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from i66 (spg-as2s22.erols.com [207.172.111.85]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA11175 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 06:29:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970716062447.007583b0@pop.erols.com> X-Sender: bjmeyer@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 06:24:47 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Bob Meyer Subject: mechanic recommendations? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Does anyone have any recommendations for a good, reliable shop, dealer or otherwise, to have mechanical work done on a Honda Hawk GT? Northern VA would be preferable? Thanks, Bob Meyer Bob@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 16 07:40:36 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id HAA15590; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 07:40:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id HAA17035; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 07:40:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dadc012.army.mil by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id HAA26984; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 07:40:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by dadc012.army.mil with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) id <01BC91BB.853053A0@XXXXXX>; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 07:40:23 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Dysart, Glenn B., Mr., IMCEN" To: "'Mitch'" , "'Brian McCoy'" , "'Collin T. Fagan'" Cc: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" Subject: RE: Riding this saturday Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 07:40:22 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 Encoding: 16 TEXT I wish I could be on your ride this weekend but my bike needs a tire and I will be out of town. I do have a suggestion for you guys. Why not skip tractor-trailer full I-81? Hit US 11 or US 340 and take one of those to US 211. Not much, but a little more scenic and no trucks. Have fun Glenn Dysart DysarGB@XXXXXX 84 V30 Magna >>Food for thought....How bout races then down 81 to 211 on the way home.... >>The cornerworker types would probably get left out since they have to stay >>and clean stuff up (sorry Brian), but the rest of us... > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 16 08:20:46 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id IAA15783; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 08:20:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id IAA17195; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 08:20:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from goliath.intelsol.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id IAA28059; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 08:20:31 -0400 (EDT) From: sbeck@XXXXXX Received: by goliath.intelsol.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.06 (346.8 3-18-1997)) id 852564D6.00440917 ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 08:23:07 -0400 X-Lotus-FromDomain: ISI To: wweiss@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Message-ID: <852564D6.00439118.00@goliath.intelsol.com> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 08:23:05 -0400 Subject: Re: Motorcycle BBS and Riding! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII . . I'm a former caller to the BBS as well. In fact, I have a Motorcyclist BBS MOUSE PAD! One of the more aesthetically pleasing ones, too. I'm hanging on to it as a collector's item. :) ______________________________________________________________________ I too have one of those mouse pads. Maybe we should start a new club. We can call it "The Motorcyclist BBS Motorcycle Club" ;-) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 16 09:56:36 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA16357; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 09:56:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA18360; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 09:55:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from andrew.cais.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA02105; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 09:55:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.161.65.74] (richwest.cais.com [206.161.65.74]) by andrew.cais.com (8.8.4/8.8.4/CJKv1.99-CAIS) with ESMTP id JAA26550 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 09:55:53 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 09:55:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: richwest@XXXXXX Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Richard Westbrook Subject: Insurance Man Thanks to everyone who gave me advice on a shop to get my bike fixed last week. A lot of you raised concerns when I said the insurance company will not pay for the repair unless I take it to a shop. Well, I talked to the insurance company a few more times and finally found out what the problem was. On their computer they have my bike as being on a lien, which it is not. Their policy is to make sure that a repair is done if the bike is on lien. Once I got that striaghtened out everything was OK. The adjuster is coming out to my house tomorrow to look at the bike. Hopefully soon I will be able to get the parts and get it back together myself. Thanks Rich Westbrook From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 16 11:30:42 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA17373; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:30:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA19770; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:28:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oasys.dt.navy.mil by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA06511; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:28:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bayview.dt.navy.mil by oasys.dt.navy.mil (5.61/oasys.dt.navy.mil) id AA15804; Wed, 16 Jul 97 11:28:52 EDT Received: from Spooler by BAYVIEW.DT.NAVY.MIL (Mercury/32 1.22); 16 Jul 97 08:30:09 -0008 Received: from spooler by bayview.dt.navy.mil (Mercury/32 1.23); 16 Jul 97 08:29:42 -0008 Received: from vrc_server by Bayview (Mercury/32 v1.23) with ESMTP; 16 Jul 97 08:29:37 -0008 From: "Bruce Dimon" To: , "Bob Meyer" Subject: Re: mechanic recommendations? Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 07:59:24 -0700 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <8C3BF7F222B@bayview.dt.navy.mil> I trust Leesburg Honda in Leesburg, VA. I also like Myers Cycle in Kensington. I have heard good things about Manassas Honda. Bruce Dimon, Sr. Programmer/Analyst A&T Engineering Technology, VECTOR Research Northern Idaho, the Land of Lakes and Lattes! ---------- > From: Bob Meyer > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: mechanic recommendations? > Date: Wednesday, July 16, 1997 3:24 AM > > Does anyone have any recommendations for a good, reliable shop, dealer or > otherwise, to have mechanical work done on a Honda Hawk GT? Northern VA > would be preferable? > > Thanks, > > Bob Meyer > > Bob@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 16 13:20:50 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA19184; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 13:20:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA23532; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 13:20:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from quackerjack.cc.vt.edu by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA11984; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 13:20:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sable.cc.vt.edu (sable.cc.vt.edu [128.173.16.30]) by quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA16443 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 13:20:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lancelot.campus.vt.edu (rkv-as1s31.erols.com [207.172.239.31]) by sable.cc.vt.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA10222 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 13:20:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970716131738.00691344@mail.vt.edu> X-Sender: mrubinst@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 13:17:38 +0600 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mitch Subject: RE: Riding this saturday In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Well, US 11 or US 340 seems like a good recommendation to me. What time should we all meet on Saturday morning? I'm thinking 9:50. Mitch At 07:40 AM 7/16/97 -0400, you wrote: >I wish I could be on your ride this weekend but my bike needs a tire and >I will be out of town. I do have a suggestion for you guys. Why not >skip tractor-trailer full I-81? Hit US 11 or US 340 and take one of >those to US 211. Not much, but a little more scenic and no trucks. > >Have fun > >Glenn Dysart >DysarGB@XXXXXX > >84 V30 Magna > >>>Food for thought....How bout races then down 81 to 211 on the way home.... >>>The cornerworker types would probably get left out since they have to stay >>>and clean stuff up (sorry Brian), but the rest of us... >> > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 16 14:31:59 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA19829; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 14:31:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA25366; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 14:29:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megsinet.net by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA14937; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 14:29:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ns1.megsinet.net(really [208.150.37.191]) by megsinet.net via sendmail with smtp id for ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 13:29:51 -0500 (CDT) (Smail-3.2.0.95 1997-May-7 #2 built 1997-May-27) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970716133208.006981fc@megspo.megsinet.net> X-Sender: jag-a-muffin@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 13:32:11 -0500 To: "Collin T. Fagan" , suzuki-l@XXXXXX, gsx.r@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Jag-A-Muffin Subject: Re: Mail Order from MAW Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At 10:19 PM 7/11/97 -0400, Collin T. Fagan wrote: >Since mail order also gets brought up once in a while, I'll add this to the >fire. > >Eventually, I went to a company that I have dealt with before with great >success, in both price and availability. I bought the rear from Bonzai >Parts (and yes I've seen em beat others by 15% or more). However, they >normally don't do tires. After talking with the rep for a while (can't >remember the name..Jim or something like that) he checked a few >distributors. After the second one, he was able to match the $135 and only >$6 shipping. I'm fully confident that he didn't make much money on that >single order (since they don't do tires in bulk), but they will definitely >receive some of my future business and will always get a good= recommendation. > >DO NOT BUY FROM M.A.W. If no one gives crappy companies like this >business, maybe we'll get lucky and they will go out of business. > >Collin > >_________________________________________ >Collin and Penny Fagan >LTjg, U.S. Coast Guard >(202) 366-0067 (work) >(703) 356-4279 (home) >(703) 816-7255 (pager) >http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/5280/ >ride.html (ride sheets) >bike.html (pics of the bikes) > > on the note of bonzai, i happen to live by them, and bought my first gsxr= from them. i bought a 96 gsxr 750 from them last october, i paid 9000 plus= tax and title. well this and that 9 months later my girlfriend and i broke= up, you can see where this is going, she took the 96 with her. my mistake= for not putting it in my name. well after trying to buy it back from her,= with no success, i had to look eleswhere. now when i bought the 96 from= them they were real good to me, preped it the same day, everything. so i= figuered time to call up banzai, i asked for jerry the guy i originaly= bought from and told him my story and that i wanted to buy a new one, he= qouted me a price of 8400 plus tax and title. well i needed a friend to= co-sign for me so he called up and gave him all the improtant info and= jerry said i'll call you back as soon as i find out anything. well we= waited and herd nothing so we called back the next day and he was like= sorry i lost your info. so we gave it to him again and he was like ill let= you know rite away. i still haven't herd from him. well a few weeks go by= and i scrape up 8700 and call up my "friend jerry" and asked him if i could= get the bike out the door for 8700. well he told no way why don't you go= somewhere eles. well needless to say i called somewhere eles told them what= i had, and need less to say i got a 97 from somewhere eles and a better= deal. im not trying to cut down banzi, cause they took care of me the first= time, but because of this jerry guy they will never get another dime from= me. so if you do goto them don't deal with jerry. 0000,0000,ffffJag-A-Muff= in 97 ffff,0000,0000GSX-R 0000,0000,ffff750<= /bigger> From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 16 15:32:42 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA20781; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 15:32:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA25809; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 15:30:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from quimby by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA18197; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 15:30:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jil-c_norloff by quimby (IBM OS/2 SENDMAIL VERSION 2.01/2.0) for ; id PAA396.63; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 15:29:40 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970716145203.0090ec10@204.194.180.21> X-Sender: cnorloff@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 14:52:03 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Chris Norloff Subject: Re: Mail Order from MAW In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970716133208.006981fc@megspo.megsinet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>DO NOT BUY FROM M.A.W. If no one gives crappy companies like this >>business, maybe we'll get lucky and they will go out of business. Well, actually I just had a quite good experience with MAW (Motorcycle Accessory Warehouse). I ordered a small windshield and inner tube, and got it about when they said it would arrive. It seems that there's a lot of problems with mail order tires (I've had problems there with Competition Accessories). I suspect most mail-order firms don't keep many tires in stock, and must get them from a distributor AFTER they take your order. Chris Norloff From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 16 19:28:58 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id TAA23470; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 19:28:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id TAA28414; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 19:28:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from visuallink.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id TAA29357; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 19:28:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LOCALNAME (ppp30.visuallink.com [206.151.68.190]) by visuallink.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA04537; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 19:29:13 -0400 Message-ID: <33CD82A5.1C995CD1@visuallink.com> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 19:25:41 -0700 From: "Ivan S. Keefer" Reply-To: ivank@XXXXXX Organization: Completely UNOrganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dale@XXXXXX CC: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Camera mounts X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <19970715130431.AAA12913@[166.32.84.50]> <33A4A22D.5B8D@his.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dale Coyner wrote: > > It looked like there was some curved and padded assembly that fit over > the shoulder along with various straps to secure it around the upper > chest. Then there was some sort of mount embedded in the harness to > fix > the camera to. Didn't look complicated, but I'm not sure I'd know how > to do it. > Dale, This kinda looks like your description: http://www.campmor.com/packs/sun.dog.camera.access.html Although, it appears to be only a carry bag. Maybe Campmor could help you out? Good luck. Seeya down the road... -- Ivan S. Keefer Winchester, VA (Shenandoah Valley, Blue Ridge Mts., motorcycles *sigh*) ivank@XXXXXX 1984 Honda CB700SC Nighthawk S blue/black (current) 1982 Suzuki GS1100L 2-tone blue (previous) AMA # 487634 International Brotherhood of Teamsters Local 29 Home Page http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/8926/index.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 16 23:35:43 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id XAA24815; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 23:35:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id XAA29640; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 23:35:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from home.tagdc.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id XAA07966; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 23:35:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from frosty.13x.com (1Cust4.Max7.Bridgewater.MI.MS.UU.NET [153.36.114.4]) by home.tagdc.com (8.8.2/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA04525 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 23:46:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33CD9538.3531@13x.com> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 23:44:57 -0400 From: Stephen Reply-To: frosty@XXXXXX Organization: SDC X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Mail Order from MAW Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Since we're talking about Mail order experiences... I ordered a second Chase Harper tailpack from Chapparel. The price was by far the best anywhere, and it showed up in about four days. They get a good vote from me. Re: the Chase Harper tailpack: When my Hawk got totaled with the tailpack onboard, I was ready to write it off (the tailpack that is, the bike was toast-no question), but remembered the "we'll replace it no matter what" warranty. I called them, told them my tailpack got wrecked when my bike got totaled, and they gave me the okay to send it in. I returned the junk I used to call a tailpack, and they sent me a brand spanking new one. I paid the shipping from my end, and that was all. I wrote them a glowing letter, and have been singing their praise ever since. BTW: I received a Kerker white-tip exhaust pipe for the same bike. It was a little spotty when I got it, but six months later it was positively rusty. I called, and they said to send it back. I did, and was rewarded with a brand new one. Ya gotta like _some_ of the companies we've got making stuff for us, and standing behind it. Anyone have any other complaint stories + or -. Stephen of the Great White North From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 00:51:44 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id AAA25615; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 00:51:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id AAA00999; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 00:51:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from quackerjack.cc.vt.edu by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id AAA09661; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 00:51:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sable.cc.vt.edu (sable.cc.vt.edu [128.173.16.30]) by quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA24913 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 00:51:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lancelot.campus.vt.edu (dam-as1s10.erols.com [207.172.137.10]) by sable.cc.vt.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA13552 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 00:51:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970717004948.0068bdc4@mail.vt.edu> X-Sender: mrubinst@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 00:49:48 +0600 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mitch Subject: Here's the plan for Saturday's ride... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Ok, we are going to meet at Montgomery Mall in Bethesda MD. We will meet at 9:50 am. So I figure everyone will show up and we'll actually get moving by 10:00 or 10:15. Berg suggested meeting down in Chantilly, but since we are heading north anyway, we might as well meet at Montgomery Mall. Someone asked how to get to Montgomery Mall from Virginia: Take 495 N. Take 270N. Get off on Democracy Blvd East. Note! Be careful because the exit doesn't have any merge space! You will see Montgomery Mall on your right. If you pass the mall while you are still on 270 then you went too far. We will meet in the back of the mall, behind the Sears Automotive place. There are no parking garages in this part, so we should be easy to spot. Getting to Montgomery Mall from 495 east is kinda tricky due to the 270 spur. If you need directions, I'll be happy to give em to ya though. >From Montgomery Mall we'll head on up to Summit Point. Then we'll head back via US 11 or US 340. The actual routes still need to be worked out. That's basically the whole plan so far. Mitch From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 08:45:49 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id IAA28402; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 08:45:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id IAA03171; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 08:45:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pressroom.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id IAA17919; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 08:45:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33CDDA73.180@pressroom.com> Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 08:40:20 +0000 From: "Dr. Moze" Reply-To: drmoze@XXXXXX Organization: The Pressroom Online Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Company kudos (was Re: Mail Order from MAW) References: <33CD9538.3531@13x.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Stephen wrote: > Ya gotta like _some_ of the companies we've got making stuff for us, and > standing behind it. Anyone have any other complaint stories + or -. > > Stephen of the Great White North I will have to give my kudos to Willie & Max. Bought a pair of their slant saddlebags for my Virago last Fall. A few months back, when unpacking the right one (which held my rainsuit and maps), I noticed a seam had come apart along the bottom. There was also a bit of rust on the buckles, which I had polished. (My bike is left covered in my driveway--no garage!) Anyways, I talked to Max, and he said to send them back and he'll replace them, no matter why they give out. I returned them for a new set of bags, and 2 months later a seam also gave out, in a slightly different spot. This time, when I returmned them I got back a pair with a reinforcement strip tacked along the bottom inside seams. Plus, I was sent a matching sissy bar bag for my troubles! So, I give my 2 thumbs up for Willie & Max for their service. On the subject of MAW and tires, I ordered 2 Bridgestone Spitfires in early May. A week later, one arrived (front). A week later, still no sign of the rear. I called, and spoke to Customer Service. The woman checked and verified that only one tire had been sent, and the other one would go out shortly. 2 weeks later, still no rear tire. I called CS again, same deal, and was told it would be shipped. A week later, I called to check, and somehow they didn't have it on their record, so I went through the same CS rigamarole again (a bit more forcefully this time) and was assured my tire would be shipped. A few days later I called, and it was indeed on the way, arriving a couple of days later. MAW has good prices, but not always the most 'together' service. YMMV. $^) -- Dr. Moze From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 08:48:01 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id IAA28428; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 08:48:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id IAA03182; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 08:47:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emout01.mail.aol.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id IAA17935; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 08:47:48 -0400 (EDT) From: KLThomas77@XXXXXX Received: (from root@localhost) by emout01.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id IAA26475; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 08:47:17 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 08:47:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970717084716_1048085907@emout01.mail.aol.com> To: frosty@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Mail Order from MAW Stephen- I can't think of a really good story, so I'll tell a bad one. My 73 CB750 was stolen with all the straps for my Sharp luggage. I called Sharp 3 times, wrote once, called Dennis Kirk twice, trying to get new straps and replace a broken hook. The bags had a lifetime guarantee, too. Got nothing. I was willing to pay for them, too. I know now I can just go to REI and get new straps, but I didn't then. I'll try to think positively and come up with somebody who was good to me. See ya Kevin From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 09:40:09 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA28869; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 09:40:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA06413; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 09:38:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emout01.mail.aol.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA20089; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 09:38:01 -0400 (EDT) From: FakeTree@XXXXXX Received: (from root@localhost) by emout01.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id JAA26634; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 09:34:07 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 09:34:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970717093406_1590413655@emout01.mail.aol.com> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, suzuki-l@XXXXXX, Robb@XXXXXX, Cougr98@XXXXXX, 0002187880@XXXXXX Subject: Suzuki VX-800 For Sale 1990 Suzuki VX-800, midnight blue, excellent condition, 12.5K miles, new tires, new battery, recent 12K overhaul tune-up, well-cared for, moto mag best used bike buy, selling for down payment on new bike, baltimore-washington area, $2,975 or best offer. e-mail: FakeTree@XXXXXX (jb haller). From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 12:47:15 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA01396; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:47:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA13430; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:46:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp3.erols.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA28720; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:46:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bergie.erols.com (bergie.erols.com [207.96.57.227]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA30926; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:45:59 -0400 Message-Id: <199707171645.MAA30926@smtp3.erols.com> From: "Bergie Frazier Jr" To: "Mitch" Cc: "'DC Cycles'" Subject: Re: Here's the plan for Saturday's ride... Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:45:54 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sounds like a plan. Do you have a pager # in case of any delays? Bergie's pager # 703-660-5301 just in case. I'll forward the plan to my group. Basically I'll suggest my group meets at my office in Chantilly first at about 9am, then off to your location to hook up with you guys. ---------- > From: Mitch > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Here's the plan for Saturday's ride... > Date: Wednesday, July 16, 1997 2:49 PM > > Ok, we are going to meet at Montgomery Mall in Bethesda MD. We will meet > at 9:50 am. So I figure everyone will show up and we'll actually get > moving by 10:00 or 10:15. Berg suggested meeting down in Chantilly, but > since we are heading north anyway, we might as well meet at Montgomery Mall. > > Someone asked how to get to Montgomery Mall from Virginia: > Take 495 N. Take 270N. Get off on Democracy Blvd East. Note! Be careful > because the exit doesn't have any merge space! You will see Montgomery > Mall on your right. If you pass the mall while you are still on 270 then > you went too far. We will meet in the back of the mall, behind the Sears > Automotive place. There are no parking garages in this part, so we should > be easy to spot. > > Getting to Montgomery Mall from 495 east is kinda tricky due to the 270 > spur. If you need directions, I'll be happy to give em to ya though. > > >From Montgomery Mall we'll head on up to Summit Point. Then we'll head > back via US 11 or US 340. The actual routes still need to be worked out. > > That's basically the whole plan so far. > > Mitch From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 13:13:38 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA02142; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 13:13:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA13906; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 13:13:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hub02.tds-gn.lmco.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA00534; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 13:13:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by hub02.tds-gn.lmco.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) id <01BC92B2.E1BEE7B0@XXXXXX>; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 13:11:04 -0400 Message-ID: From: To: , , , Subject: Troubleshooting horn problem Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 13:11:03 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 Encoding: 29 TEXT Boy, it's tough keeping three old bikes running. Here's my latest annoying thing. My 1978 KZ1000LTD has an intermittent horn problem. I just bought a new horn after the old one died, it worked ok for a while. Now it only seems to work after the bike has been started, and run for a while. (A warm blooded horn? Who knows?) Here's a typical scenario: Walk up to cold bike, key in, ignition on, no horn. Start bike, idle, no horn. Drive down road a few miles, horn works. Stop bike after nice ride, idling horn works. Shut bike off, key still on, horn works. Leave bike, come back later, no horn. I'll admit, I did have to replace the handlebars a while ago, and the electronics wires on the LTD are routed through the bars (that was a pain), so it's possible that maybe some of the wires got stressed/pulled too much. I've checked all the obvious stuff, wire connections, fuses, etc. I'm now officially stumped. Horkster `The Horkster', aka Dale Horstman dale.r.horstman@XXXXXX 1978 Kawasaki KZ1000 LTD 1976 Kawasaki KZ400 oh, and that darned 1982 Yamaha Virago 750 (The Wife`s Ride) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 14:40:58 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA05209; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 14:40:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA17108; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 14:39:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ngedns.northgrum.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA07287; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 14:39:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xcgca001.xcg.northgrum.com ([132.228.123.154]) by ngedns.northgrum.com (8.8.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA24933 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 11:37:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by xcgca001.xcg.northgrum.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) id <01BC92BF.1C9D9730@XXXXXX>; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 14:38:37 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Meier, Christopher" To: "'dale.r.horstman@XXXXXX'" , "'dc-cycles'" Subject: RE: Troubleshooting horn problem Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 14:38:24 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I know what you mean ... I replaced my bars with aftermarket ones and now my horn will not work under 4k rpm. No clue why this would be. Comments? Anyone? Bueller? Later, chris ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------ Christopher A. Meier meierch@XXXXXX Northrop Grumman Corporation, Washington DC, USA 1994 RF900R AMA #470094 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------ > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 14:44:24 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA05340; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 14:44:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA17221; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 14:44:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from johnson.eng.umd.edu by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA07766; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 14:44:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from twiddle.eng.umd.edu (twiddle.eng.umd.edu [129.2.94.141]) by johnson.eng.umd.edu (8.8.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA02074; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 14:43:35 -0400 (EDT) From: "Robert S. Fourney" Received: (knee@localhost) by twiddle.eng.umd.edu (8.8.5/8.6.4) id OAA24976; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 14:43:33 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 14:43:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199707171843.OAA24976@twiddle.eng.umd.edu> To: balt-cycles@XXXXXX, dale.r.horstman@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX, kz-ltd-list@XXXXXX, vjmc@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Troubleshooting horn problem I find that when the connections are only so-so (eg, the horn connections on any bike of that era maintained by ME! I think it's a combination of not being a "polish and wax" type person and using the loudest horn I can find that the bike will drive.) that you need a little more juice to get past the crapy connections. Your problem may be related to the state of the battery rather than the weather. When the bikes been sitting for awhile, you are at "battery voltage" (say 11.5 to 12 V), after running and revving the engine, you are fully charged (say 12.5 to 13.5 Volts). The solution is to clean the connections and/or put in a horn relay. If you just have one wire going to your horn, it is grounded by the bolts that attach it to the bike. Make sure you have a good bare metal (no paint, no rust) connection here as well as checking the "real" connections. If the horn is just too big (electically) for the tiny stock horn wires, run a separate wire from battery (through a fuse) to a relay, and use the stock horn setup to run the relay and the relay to run the horn. 'Nother horn question: I've got a set of st??? (the fiam look alikes and sound alikes as far as I can tell). Whats the best orientation to mount them in. (cones up, down, inboard, outboard, front, rear?) I'm looking for a good compromise between volume and them filling up wiht dead bugs, dust and rain. Bob From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 15:10:15 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA06240; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 15:10:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA17730; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 15:10:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from egate2.citicorp.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA09742; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 15:10:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by egate2.citicorp.com id AA07612 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for dc-cycles@XXXXXX); Thu, 17 Jul 1997 15:09:32 -0400 Message-Id: <199707171909.AA07612@egate2.citicorp.com> Received: by egate2.citicorp.com (Protected-side Proxy Mail Agent-2); Thu, 17 Jul 1997 15:09:32 -0400 Received: by egate2.citicorp.com (Protected-side Proxy Mail Agent-1); Thu, 17 Jul 1997 15:09:32 -0400 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 15:07:29 -0400 From: "Aki.Damme" Subject: Sometimes the simplest problem is the hardest to solve To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In-Reply-To: X400-Mts-Identifier: [ /P=CITICORP/A=MCI/C=US/ ; MTASO90002US 11Lf6M000039c ] X-Mailer: Worldtalk (4.0.2-p8)/MIME man.... Do *I* feel like a dummy... For the past couple of months, my 85 Magna has been acting very strangely, specifically, it felt "mushy" and pulled in the opposite direction of my turn...it was kinda scary since I felt like I had to muscle the bike through each turn. I first thought it might be sticky pavement since it's been so hot however I experienced the same problem even in the mornings.... So.....I practically tore apart my front end and examined the brakes, tire tread, fork alignment, tire balance.. everything and nothing seemed wrong at all...images of big bucks danced in my head about the repair job that I would have to pay to correct the problem...riding the bike has *not* been fun... This afternoon, as an afterthought, I checked the tire pressure... DUHHHHH!!!! BOTH TIRES were over 15psi low!...I didn't check the tire pressure since it's been in storage for the winter so I've been living with this for the past couple of months! Now the bike is like a completely different bike...MUCH easier to steer and it handles like new again... I've been riding for over 20 years and have owned a dozen bikes... one would think that checking the tire pressure would of been the FIRST thing I checked...it will be the next time! The moral of the story is...check the little, SIMPLE things first, you just might find out that the problem was not nearly as bad or complicated as you thought! ;-) cheers, -aki From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 15:54:37 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA07194; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 15:54:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA18152; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 15:52:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from quimby by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA12251; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 15:52:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jil-c_norloff by quimby (IBM OS/2 SENDMAIL VERSION 2.01/2.0) for ; id PAA470.16; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 15:50:41 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970717154358.0094f9f0@204.194.180.21> X-Sender: cnorloff@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 15:43:58 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Chris Norloff Subject: Re: Sometimes the simplest problem is the hardest to solve In-Reply-To: <199707171909.AA07612@egate2.citicorp.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >For the past couple of months, my 85 Magna has been acting >very strangely, specifically, it felt "mushy" and pulled >in the opposite direction of my turn...it was kinda scary >since I felt like I had to muscle the bike through each >turn. I first thought it might be sticky pavement since >it's been so hot however I experienced the same problem >even in the mornings.... ... >DUHHHHH!!!! BOTH TIRES were over 15psi low!...I didn't check the >tire pressure since it's been in storage for the winter so I've >been living with this for the past couple of months! I had that problem when evaluating a bike I wanted to buy. I squeezed the tires and they felt fine, so I didn't put a tire-pressure gauge on them. The bike ran great but handled like a pig. Hard to lean, hard to hold in the turn, unstable. I loved the bike, but could never tolerate such poor handling. I went so far as to place my bike beside it (same bikes) and sight along the front end to see if something appeared out of line. Then I thought to check the tires. As original tires on a 1982 bike, they were as hard as cast iron, to the touch, but had such little air in them that one tire wouldn't even register on the tire-pressure gauge. Verify everything, Chris Norloff From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 15:55:41 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA07204; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 15:55:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA18236; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 15:55:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from goliath.intelsol.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA12341; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 15:55:31 -0400 (EDT) From: sbeck@XXXXXX Received: by goliath.intelsol.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.06 (346.8 3-18-1997)) id 852564D7.006DB4B2 ; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 15:58:16 -0400 X-Lotus-FromDomain: ISI To: MEIERCH@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Message-ID: <852564D7.006CE948.00@goliath.intelsol.com> Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 15:58:14 -0400 Subject: RE: Troubleshooting horn problem Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII . I know what you mean ... I replaced my bars with aftermarket ones and now my horn will not work under 4k rpm. No clue why this would be. Comments? Anyone? Bueller? ----------------------------------------------------------------- It sounds like the aftermarket horns are drawing more current than the stock ones. You will need to install a relay. Use the pair of wires coming from the horn button to activate the relay. And run some heavy guage wire from the battery to the relay and from the relay to the new horn. And you should probably install an inline fuse between the battery and the relay for safety. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 16:03:00 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA07351; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 16:03:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA18440; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 16:02:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from beta.mcit.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA12793; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 16:02:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ndcrelay.mcit.com (ndcrelay.mcit.com [166.37.172.49]) by beta.mcit.com (8.8.6/) with ESMTP id PAA24382 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 15:02:08 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pop1a.mail.mci.com (pop1a.mail.mci.com [166.37.204.5]) by ndcrelay.mcit.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA28430 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 16:02:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localHost ([166.41.242.141]) by pop1a.mail.mci.com (Post.Office MTA v3.0 release "turbo_2" ID# 1-123U25000L1S10) with SMTP id AAA16562 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 15:02:05 -0500 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 15:54 -0400 (EDT) From: "Todd B Peer" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Sometimes the simplest problem is the hardest to solve X-Mailer: MailRoom v2.1e Message-ID: <19970717200204.AAA16562@localHost> Aki wrote: man.... Do *I* feel like a dummy... For the past couple of months, my 85 Magna has been acting very strangely, specifically, it felt "mushy" and pulled in the opposite direction of my turn... So.....I practically tore apart my front end and examined the brakes, tire tread, fork alignment, tire balance.. everything and nothing seemed wrong at all... This afternoon, as an afterthought, I checked the tire pressure... DUHHHHH!!!! BOTH TIRES were over 15psi low!...I didn't check the tire pressure since it's been in storage for the winter so I've been living with this for the past couple of months! Man, I got a good laugh at this Aki. Not at you but with you. I have done similar things like tearing down through the top of my ST to get at the manifold screws for a carb synch. Turns out Honda ran some hoses out to a conveniently positioned place on the bike just for this purpose. WHy didn't somebody say something? Oh...it's right there in the manual... :-0 A one hour job turned into 3....duhhh. Todd From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 16:17:25 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA07535; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 16:17:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA18694; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 16:17:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ngedns.northgrum.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA13350; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 16:17:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xcgca001.xcg.northgrum.com ([132.228.123.154]) by ngedns.northgrum.com (8.8.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA00666 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 13:14:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by xcgca001.xcg.northgrum.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) id <01BC92CC.C9BFB8A0@XXXXXX>; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 16:16:31 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Meier, Christopher" To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" , "'sbeck@XXXXXX'" Subject: RE: Troubleshooting horn problem Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 16:02:46 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Whoa! Point of clarification ... HORNS are stock, Handlebars are aftermarket. Sorry, I should have been more clear. I have thusfar been chalking it up to a bad contact point when I reinstalled the horn button on to the handlebar, but I can't explain why the horn does and does not work at different in RPMs. If the bike produces more electrical juice at a higher rpm, could a poor (i.e. dirty) connection not work at low rpm and work at higher rpm? Later, chris ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------ Christopher A. Meier meierch@XXXXXX Northrop Grumman Corporation, Washington DC, USA 1994 RF900R AMA #470094 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------ >---------- >From: sbeck@XXXXXX[SMTP:sbeck@XXXXXX] >Sent: Thursday, July 17, 1997 3:58 PM >To: Meier, Christopher; dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: RE: Troubleshooting horn problem > >I know what you mean ... > >I replaced my bars with aftermarket ones and now my horn will not work >under 4k rpm. > >No clue why this would be. Comments? Anyone? Bueller? > >----------------------------------------------------------------- > > >It sounds like the aftermarket horns are drawing more current than the >stock ones. You will need to install a relay. Use the pair of wires >coming from the horn button to activate the relay. And run some heavy >guage wire from the battery to the relay and from the relay to the new >horn. And you should probably install an inline fuse between the battery >and the relay for safety. > > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 17:05:25 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id RAA08785; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 17:05:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id RAA19293; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 17:04:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hub02.tds-gn.lmco.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id RAA16728; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 17:04:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by hub02.tds-gn.lmco.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) id <01BC92D3.24C9F020@XXXXXX>; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 17:02:01 -0400 Message-ID: From: To: , Subject: RE: Troubleshooting horn problem Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 17:02:00 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 Encoding: 18 TEXT Chris Meier wrote, If the bike produces more electrical juice at a higher rpm, could a poor (i.e. dirty) connection not work at low rpm and work at higher rpm? I think you are on to something here. The battery does charge up while the engine runs, and charges at slightly higher voltage at higher revs. It could be that the connection is poor enough that it takes 12.5 volts + in order to break through. This would explain my problem, horn only works after running for a while. Battery is nice and fully charged, honk! Battery drained slightly, . Good luck to you, I'm gonna go home and start checking connections. Horkster. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 17:25:48 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id RAA09569; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 17:25:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id RAA19515; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 17:25:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp1.erols.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id RAA18346; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 17:25:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from default ([205.177.147.170] (may be forged)) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA20977 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 17:26:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970717172750.00701b40@pop.erols.com> X-Sender: cfagan@XXXXXX (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 17:27:50 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Collin Fagan Subject: RE: Troubleshooting horn problem In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 04:02 PM 7/17/97 -0400, Meier, Christopher wrote: >Whoa! Point of clarification ... HORNS are stock, Handlebars are >aftermarket. >Sorry, I should have been more clear. > >I have thusfar been chalking it up to a bad contact point when I >reinstalled the horn button on to the handlebar, but I can't explain why >the horn does and does not work at different in RPMs. If the bike >produces more electrical juice at a higher rpm, could a poor (i.e. >dirty) connection not work at low rpm and work at higher rpm? It sounds as if the charging system or more likely the battery may be going south. Suzuki's in particular are infamous for their poor electricals (although I'm sure someone will post the "I've got 80k on the clock and not one problem). The charging system on most vehicles is not designed to work until you have several thousand rpm going. When the bike is off or at idle, you're drawing off the battery. An old battery sounds just like what you mention. No horn after sitting....start it and get some r's going, horn works fine. Ride for a bit then park it....battery stores some juice and horn will work for a bit. Or, as you've mentioned, a poor contact can raise the resistance on the wire and require a little more juice for the horn to opperate properly. Collin _________________________________________ Collin and Penny Fagan LTjg, U.S. Coast Guard (202) 366-0067 (work) (703) 356-4279 (home) (703) 816-7255 (pager) http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/5280/ ride.html (ride sheets) bike.html (pics of the bikes) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 17:37:58 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id RAA10018; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 17:37:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id RAA19935; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 17:37:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp1.erols.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id RAA19343; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 17:37:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from default ([205.177.147.170] (may be forged)) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA23535 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 17:38:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970717174004.00704b50@pop.erols.com> X-Sender: cfagan@XXXXXX (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 17:40:04 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Collin Fagan Subject: Saturday's ride Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To Mitch and the gang meeting in MD, 10 AM is a little late in the morning for me. I plan on being up at the track sometime around 0830 to watch some of the practice sessions and BS with some of the guys on the race list. However, John Pierrat and I will be joining you for the ride back. When I suggested 81 down to 211, what I really had in mind was 81 then take a long-cut on 42 down to 211. This cuts out a good section of highway time. So how does this sound for the rest of the way: 211 from Timberville (you get to go over both mtn sections this way. Left on 522 into Flint Hill. Right onto 647 (awsome backroad) up to Marshall. Right on 55 East into the Plains. Left onto 626 (one of the best back roads in the area) into Middleburg. Left on 7 for a couple of miles then Right on 690 which we can follow all the way to Lovetsville near the MD line. For the VA folks, from Lovettesville I have an excellent little route down from there on Milltown rd through Waterford down to the Hamilton/Purcelleville area, then another backroad into the back of Leesburgh, and then some other backroads into Ashburn near the Walmart on 28. From there, 7, toll road, 50, and 66 are all convineient to get home. Whadaya think??? I am on a blue and white 93 GSXR 750, John is on a green and white 95 ZX7. I'll also have my Maxon headsets with me, so if anyone else coming has a 49MHZ system (chatterbox, nady, etc.), feel free to bring it along. Collin _________________________________________ Collin and Penny Fagan LTjg, U.S. Coast Guard (202) 366-0067 (work) (703) 356-4279 (home) (703) 816-7255 (pager) http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/5280/ ride.html (ride sheets) bike.html (pics of the bikes) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 18:46:03 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id SAA12376; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 18:46:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id SAA22328; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 18:45:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emout19.mail.aol.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id SAA24306; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 18:45:32 -0400 (EDT) From: KLThomas77@XXXXXX Received: (from root@localhost) by emout19.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id SAA07075; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 18:45:01 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 18:45:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970717184339_1380647532@emout19.mail.aol.com> To: VFR@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: 92 VFR750 for sale, wrecked (2nd post) Hey, y'all Here's the whole scoop again on my 92 VFR750 for sale, wrecked, $1700 firm. I will fix it for you if you want, price negotiable.. See end of post. I'm in Potomac MD, 20 mi from DC. Quick overview: I bought it at 18800 miles, great shape. I sold it at 28500 miles, great shape. I bought it again at 29600 miles, not great shape. It had been hit by a car while parked. It was in a space, and a car pulled in. Not much else is known--hit and run. It can be fixed for less than another one will cost. I swear! But I don't really have the time to do it, and I won't make a huge profit from selling it, and right now I need money. I want some Vanson Leathers. It needs all the plastic except the right side of the tail. I have scuffed but un-cracked parts for the whole left side. I have access to the whole right side, ready to paint, for $325. The radiator needs work. Probably repairable for $150 or less. I may send it out to get done soon, thus reducing your risk if you buy the bike, but raising the price a bit. The new TBR full system has a small dent (1" across, 1/2" deep) behind the footpeg bracket, and a couple of scratches. The tank has a dent, repairable. It needs a sidestand, and the brake lever, shifter, and brake pedal are bent. The pedals can be straightened, and I have a less bent lever. The tubular structure that holds the upper fairing has braces that locate the mirrors. One of these is bent. It can be straightened or that section replaced. Just a 6" piece of tube with a mirror flange on the end. Once the radiator is fixed and the shifter etc, straightened, it should be ridable. No frame/suspension damage that I can see. To make it servicable, one could put on the plastic I have and that I know where to get, thus allowing the reattatchment of all the turnsignals, and ride it. It'd be ugly but cheap. (and red on one side) Total cost at this point (purchase + repair) should be ~ $2300. If the radiator isn't repairable, I can get a new one from my dealer for ~$360 (list $420), or you can try to match that locally. I've got new grips for it, and I put in a new maintainance-free battery that I bought a while ago and didn't use. Also has 94+ turn signals in rear, and a Hella horn. Sportmaxes ~1/2 tread. Recent EBC brake pads. All scheduled maintainence, Mobil 1 as long as I've had it. It includes an Ungo alarm. The alarm has an starter disable feature, and must be reinstalled before the bike will run. BTW, you also get the stock exhaust. One thing I considered was selling the TBR (have to be relatively cheap, due to damage, but was $500+ new), thus reducing my cost a bit, and reinstalling the stock stuff. It has a K&N stage 1 jet kit and filter too. You can call me at 301-424-5319. I have photos if it sounds good to you. Also, of course, could be parted out if you want to do that. I hear swing arm/brake/wheel assemblies are worth up to $1500. I considered putting the front end on my 87. VFR engines don't go bad much, but if somebody needed one.... Talon asked about buying it to cut in half for a Taillocker display--you could split it with him. I paid $1700 for the bike and all the parts. That's what I want for it. Please tell your friends. I told some of you $1600. I was wrong, but I'll stand by that for those I have talked to individually. It will always be for sale, whatever condition it is in. In other words, if it sits around too long, I'll start fixing it, but if you decide later that you want it, I'll set a price and stop working whenever you want. If you want it fixed, I'll do it if you send money first. Right now I can't afford parts. Later Kevin PS-I'm getting off the VFR list, so please respond directly From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 19:53:02 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id TAA14588; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 19:53:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id TAA22867; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 19:52:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from quackerjack.cc.vt.edu by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id TAA29129; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 19:52:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sable.cc.vt.edu (sable.cc.vt.edu [128.173.16.30]) by quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA20266 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 19:52:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lancelot.campus.vt.edu (rkv-as2s13.erols.com [207.172.239.76]) by sable.cc.vt.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA26337 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 19:52:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970717195107.006905c0@mail.vt.edu> X-Sender: mrubinst@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 19:51:07 +0600 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mitch Subject: Re: Here's the plan for Saturday's ride... In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.16.19970717140739.2dc71a66@knight-hub.com> References: <3.0.1.32.19970717004948.0068bdc4@mail.vt.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Doh! Good thing you caught that. Of course you want to head for Democracy WEST! Everyone got that? It's Democracy WEST. Thanks, Bill! Collin, that route sounds good to me for the way home. 1st is still one click up from neutral, right? ;) Mitch At 02:07 PM 7/17/97, you wrote: >At 12:49 AM 7/17/97 +0600, you wrote: > >. . .. > >>Someone asked how to get to Montgomery Mall from Virginia: >>Take 495 N. Take 270N. Get off on Democracy Blvd East. Note! Be careful >>because the exit doesn't have any merge space! You will see Montgomery >> >. . .. > >Er. Uh. Mitch, I'm more or less a newbie, but spotted something that might >save some problems. Having made several trips to M'y Mall from DC lately, >it seems that I've aimed for Democracy Blvd *West* off of 270N. Don't >remember the exact signage wording, and maybe for some reason this is a >false alarm, but thought it worthwhile to pass on. No need to attribute >this if you repost. > >Bill Swanson EN500LTD From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 21:28:14 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id VAA18171; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 21:28:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id VAA23468; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 21:27:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from helix.networx.on.ca by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id VAA06346; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 21:27:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [204.50.169.14] by helix.networx.on.ca (IBM OS/2 SENDMAIL VERSION 1.3.15/1.0) id AA1112; Thu, 17 Jul 97 21:26:08 -0400 Message-Id: <9707180126.AA1112@helix.networx.on.ca> From: "matthew Bergin" To: , , , , Subject: Re: (vjmc) Troubleshooting horn problem Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 21:28:07 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1008.3 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE Engine V4.71.1008.3 There is an adjustment on the back of the horn. Loosen the locknut adjust the screw for the loudest sound and tighten the locknut. The adjustment exists to allow for wear in the contact points inside the horn. " VIOLENCE IS THE LAST REFUGE OF THE INCOMPETENT" -Salvor Hardin- Matthew Bergin ( Buffalo Rider ) matt@XXXXXX 1972 GT750 ( Dual disk conversion, I like to stop!!! ) 1975 Z50A K5 ( For my eight year old son. ) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 21:30:38 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id VAA18254; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 21:30:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id VAA23491; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 21:30:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from helix.networx.on.ca by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id VAA06446; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 21:30:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [204.50.169.14] by helix.networx.on.ca (IBM OS/2 SENDMAIL VERSION 1.3.15/1.0) id AA1129; Thu, 17 Jul 97 21:28:31 -0400 Message-Id: <9707180128.AA1129@helix.networx.on.ca> From: "matthew Bergin" To: , , , , Subject: Re: (vjmc) Troubleshooting horn problem Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 21:28:07 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1008.3 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE Engine V4.71.1008.3 There is an adjustment on the back of the horn. Loosen the locknut adjust the screw for the loudest sound and tighten the locknut. The adjustment exists to allow for wear in the contact points inside the horn. " VIOLENCE IS THE LAST REFUGE OF THE INCOMPETENT" -Salvor Hardin- Matthew Bergin ( Buffalo Rider ) matt@XXXXXX 1972 GT750 ( Dual disk conversion, I like to stop!!! ) 1975 Z50A K5 ( For my eight year old son. ) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 22:20:55 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA19504; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 22:20:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA24084; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 22:20:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp1.erols.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA09726; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 22:20:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sturges.erols.com (spg-as74s27.erols.com [207.172.43.154]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA21058; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 22:21:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970717220117.00696108@pop.erols.com> X-Sender: sturges@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 22:21:12 -0400 To: Amit Chatterjie , "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" From: Rich and Leslie Sturges Subject: RE: Camera mounts Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 03:31 PM 7/15/97 -0400, Amit Chatterjie wrote: >> I have a video camera with twin lenses. The second lense connects to >> the main camera and is about >> 3" long. The size of a thumb! It would make an ideal "helmet cam" if Do you know where I can get such a camera lense (with rca composite output I assume) rich From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 22:35:08 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA19560; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 22:35:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA24189; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 22:34:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp1.erols.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA10224; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 22:34:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sturges.erols.com (spg-as74s27.erols.com [207.172.43.154]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA24160 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 22:35:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970717223213.0069ce70@pop.erols.com> X-Sender: sturges@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 22:35:25 -0400 To: DC-Cycles List From: Rich and Leslie Sturges Subject: Summit Pt on Saturday Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To those of you coming up to Summit on Saturday, be sure to stop by the Team Charm Pits at or near pit-out. Our EX500s are #911 (Steve Harris) and #411 (Rich Sturges). Cheer us on in the first and last races of the day, then drink our beer, please! Should be great weather, and I plan to win. rich From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 18 00:26:16 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id AAA20689; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 00:26:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id AAA26922; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 00:26:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from umr.edu by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id AAA13808; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 00:26:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from huter.umr.edu (Sara.a14.smsu.edu [146.7.31.14]) via ESMTP by hermes.cc.umr.edu (8.8.5/R.4.20) id XAA27191; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 23:26:00 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199707180426.XAA27191@hermes.cc.umr.edu> From: "Brandon Monnig" To: , Subject: Differences in viffers, changes in style... Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 23:35:09 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was wondering if anyone could guide me to a page that shows the differences in the various "stages" of VFR evolution. I know the '87-87 style, and I know that they changed in '90. Was there a change from '90-94? I guess my real question is what are the cut-off years for design/style changes? I too REALLY REALLY like the red viffers with the white multi-spoke wheels. I believe this is the '90-92 style. Is this correct? Anyway, if anyone knows of a page that shows the different 'stages' of viffer evolution, I'd appreciate it if you could give me the link. I am thinking of getting a later model (single sided swingarm) to complement my '86. As I mentioned, I really like the red w/ white wheels, and believe it or not, I like the single headlight look. Does this mean a '90-92 is for me? What are the perf/handling/weight differences in the '90 vs. '92 or '94-97? Thanks for all the help. Brandon Monnig monnig@XXXXXX '86 VFR700F (only had it since Feb., but I'm in love, and it needs a late model mate) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 18 00:51:23 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id AAA20784; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 00:51:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id AAA27117; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 00:51:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from spidergram.ccs.unr.edu by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id AAA14089; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 00:51:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from med.unr.edu by spidergram.ccs.unr.edu (8.8.4/1.34) id EAA08631; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 04:51:04 GMT Received: from localhost by med.unr.edu (8.8.4/1.34-UNR-sd-ptp-1.01) id VAA00253; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 21:43:30 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 21:43:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric William Lamberts X-Sender: ewl@med To: dale.r.horstman@XXXXXX cc: kz-ltd-list@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX, balt-cycles@XXXXXX, vjmc@XXXXXX Subject: Re: (vjmc) Troubleshooting horn problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Eric Lamberts '72 Commando, '43 BSA M20, Suzukis---'78 GS750, '75 RE5(2), '76 RE5, '72 T250, '66 T20 (X6). Coupla mopeds, lots of bicycles, windsurfers, skis, and other stuff...ewl@XXXXXX Reno, NV On Thu, 17 Jul 1997 dale.r.horstman@XXXXXX wrote: > Boy, it's tough keeping three old bikes running. Here's my latest annoying thing. > > My 1978 KZ1000LTD has an intermittent horn problem. I just bought a new horn > after the old one died, it worked ok for a while. Now it only seems to work after > the bike has been started, and run for a while. (A warm blooded horn? Who knows?) > > Here's a typical scenario: > Walk up to cold bike, key in, ignition on, no horn. > Start bike, idle, no horn. > Drive down road a few miles, horn works. > Stop bike after nice ride, idling horn works. > Shut bike off, key still on, horn works. > Leave bike, come back later, no horn. > > I'll admit, I did have to replace the handlebars a while ago, and the electronics wires > on the LTD are routed through the bars (that was a pain), so it's possible that maybe > some of the wires got stressed/pulled too much. I've checked all the obvious stuff, > wire connections, fuses, etc. I'm now officially stumped. > > Horkster > > `The Horkster', aka Dale Horstman > dale.r.horstman@XXXXXX > > 1978 Kawasaki KZ1000 LTD > 1976 Kawasaki KZ400 > oh, and that darned > 1982 Yamaha Virago 750 (The Wife`s Ride) > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 18 01:08:51 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id BAA20863; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 01:08:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id BAA27244; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 01:08:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from spidergram.ccs.unr.edu by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id BAA14273; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 01:08:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from med.unr.edu by spidergram.ccs.unr.edu (8.8.4/1.34) id FAA08737; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 05:08:34 GMT Received: from localhost by med.unr.edu (8.8.4/1.34-UNR-sd-ptp-1.01) id WAA00433; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 22:01:04 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 22:01:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric William Lamberts X-Sender: ewl@med To: dale.r.horstman@XXXXXX cc: kz-ltd-list@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX, balt-cycles@XXXXXX, vjmc@XXXXXX Subject: Re: (vjmc) Troubleshooting horn problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sorry about the nul post. The horns on bikes generally have a wire running from the battery to the horn. The other wire from the horn goes to the horn button. When it is pressed it completes the circuit to ground and the horn sounds. To troubleshoot, buy a cheap test light at the local auto parts store. hook the clip to the minus terminal of the battery. Touch the probe to the positive terminal. The light lights! Test your horn when it is not working. Connect the clip to the negative terminal of the battery. Touch the probe to the horn terminals. If both light, the horn is good. If one lights, and the other doesn't, your horn is bad--adjust or replace (again). Perhaps your handlebars are poorly grounded. This time hook the clip to the positive terminal of the battery. Touch the probe to the metal of the handle bars. If the light lights, the ground is good. If the ground is good, and the horn is good, the problem must lie in the switch or the wires connecting the switch to the battery. To test the switch, remove the switch wire from the horn. Hook the test clip to the positive battery terminal and touch the probe to the disconnected horn wire. If the switch and its wiring are good, the test light will light when you press the horn button. Good luck ! Eric Lamberts '72 Commando, '43 BSA M20, Suzukis---'78 GS750, '75 RE5(2), '76 RE5, '72 T250, '66 T20 (X6). Coupla mopeds, lots of bicycles, windsurfers, skis, and other stuff...ewl@XXXXXX Reno, NV On Thu, 17 Jul 1997 dale.r.horstman@XXXXXX wrote: > Boy, it's tough keeping three old bikes running. Here's my latest annoying thing. > > My 1978 KZ1000LTD has an intermittent horn problem. I just bought a new horn > after the old one died, it worked ok for a while. Now it only seems to work after > the bike has been started, and run for a while. (A warm blooded horn? Who knows?) > > Here's a typical scenario: > Walk up to cold bike, key in, ignition on, no horn. > Start bike, idle, no horn. > Drive down road a few miles, horn works. > Stop bike after nice ride, idling horn works. > Shut bike off, key still on, horn works. > Leave bike, come back later, no horn. > > I'll admit, I did have to replace the handlebars a while ago, and the electronics wires > on the LTD are routed through the bars (that was a pain), so it's possible that maybe > some of the wires got stressed/pulled too much. I've checked all the obvious stuff, > wire connections, fuses, etc. I'm now officially stumped. > > Horkster > > `The Horkster', aka Dale Horstman > dale.r.horstman@XXXXXX > > 1978 Kawasaki KZ1000 LTD > 1976 Kawasaki KZ400 > oh, and that darned > 1982 Yamaha Virago 750 (The Wife`s Ride) > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 18 08:37:04 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id IAA23061; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 08:37:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id IAA04213; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 08:36:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from steinberg.umd.edu by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id IAA23173; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 08:36:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from twiddle.eng.umd.edu (twiddle.eng.umd.edu [129.2.94.141]) by steinberg.umd.edu (8.8.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA08573; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 08:36:29 -0400 (EDT) From: "Robert S. Fourney" Received: (from knee@localhost) by twiddle.eng.umd.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA25329; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 08:36:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 08:36:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199707181236.IAA25329@twiddle.eng.umd.edu> To: dale.r.horstman@XXXXXX, ewl@XXXXXX Subject: Re: (vjmc) Troubleshooting horn problem Cc: balt-cycles@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX, kz-ltd-list@XXXXXX, vjmc@XXXXXX Re: troubleshooting horn circuit w/ test light. A cruddy connection will still pass enough juice to light the light, but not enough to vibrate the horn. Of course, if the light doesn't work, somethings wrong w/ switch or wiring. You may want to rig this up after the bike sits overnight. even if the light lights, leave it in place as you start the bike and rev the engine. IF it gets brighter as you rev, look for poor connections (assuming all else electrical works as it should, which means no major battery problem). 'Luck Bob From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 18 13:37:21 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA27200; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 13:37:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA10740; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 13:37:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from micros-bh.micros.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA07717; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 13:37:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by micros-bh.micros.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) id NAA05431 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 13:33:09 -0400 Received: from micros.micros.com by micros-bh.micros.com via smap (3.2) id xma005387; Fri, 18 Jul 97 13:32:56 -0400 Received: from smtplink.micros.com (smtplink.micros.com [206.241.52.10]) by micros.micros.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/micros-2.1) with SMTP id NAA15554 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 13:32:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccMail by smtplink.micros.com (ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.00) id AA869246030; Fri, 18 Jul 97 13:30:55 -0500 Message-Id: <9707188692.AA869246030@smtplink.micros.com> X-Mailer: ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.00 Date: Fri, 18 Jul 97 11:51:42 -0500 From: "Brian McCoy" To: Subject: Summit point races.. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Any other Racers out there on the list that are going to be up there this weekend? I like to keep an eye out for people while stations on my corner (corner-worker)... you can have another person to cheer you on... Brian McCoy From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 18 14:05:00 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA27481; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 14:04:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA11094; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 14:04:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from server2.illuminet.net by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA09138; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 14:04:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mbegeman.erols.com (dialup20.illuminet.net [205.215.55.20]) by server2.illuminet.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA09637; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 14:34:18 -0400 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970718180539.006971b4@illuminet.net> X-Sender: mrider@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 14:05:39 -0400 To: Nick & Wendy Ranone , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Leon Begeman Subject: Re: CB Radio At 09:02 PM 7/6/97 -0400, Nick & Wendy Ranone wrote: >I want to get a hand held CB radio for bike to bike communications. Midland >makes one that is a 3 in 1. It is a 40 channel CB, 10 channel weather, and >an FM radio. Does anyone know of a shop that sells CB radios? There is no >listing in the yellow pages under CB or radio that mentions CB's. I just got the new J&M system for the radio shack hand-held CB. I have to pick up the cable between the CB and the helmet, so I haven't had a chance to test it yet. It has been my experience that if it isn't made for a bike, it won't last very long. Leon Begeman (703) 590-9073 13391 Packard Dr., Dale City, VA 22193 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 18 16:56:39 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA01048; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 16:56:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA15259; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 16:55:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skippy.umiacs.umd.edu by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA18558; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 16:55:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.clark.net by skippy.umiacs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA04865; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 16:55:19 -0400 (EDT) From: jimi@XXXXXX Received: from explorer2.clark.net (jimi@XXXXXX [168.143.0.5]) by mail.clark.net (8.8.5/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA00776; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 16:55:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (jimi@localhost) by explorer2.clark.net (8.8.5/8.7.1) with SMTP id QAA04910; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 16:55:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: explorer2.clark.net: jimi owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 16:55:03 -0400 (EDT) To: DC Cycles cc: Hawk List Subject: 1990 Honda HawkGT 647cc Motorcycle FOR SALE Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII 1990 Honda HawkGT 647cc Motorcycle FOR SALE * red * 100% stock * 7500 miles * perfect * $2950 * located in Northern Virginia Call me at 703-802-9363 or write to me at jimi@XXXXXX with any questions. Thanks, -jimi From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jul 19 23:02:17 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id XAA11295; Sat, 19 Jul 1997 23:02:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id XAA25997; Sat, 19 Jul 1997 23:00:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp2.erols.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id XAA10417; Sat, 19 Jul 1997 23:00:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from default (spg-as20s31.erols.com [207.172.36.222]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA01353 for ; Sat, 19 Jul 1997 23:00:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970719230256.006dabfc@pop.erols.com> X-Sender: cfagan@XXXXXX (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 23:02:56 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Collin Fagan Subject: Summit Point tomorrow (Sunday) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Headin back out early tomorrow. This time with pillion times two, so the cage will be in order. Same deal as last time out: If your ridin and would like a safe place to leave the leathers, helmets, whatever, feel free to throw em in the truck. We'll have an ice chest with lots of water and a few sodas and any beer I can find laying around here. Just look for the very dirty, green dodge dakota 4x4 with a light bar. We may be in turn 5, or more likely on the back stretch near turn 7/8. The riding today was pretty good even though the return ride whiddled down to just me and Mitch. It was pretty neat seeing the new style gixer riding next to my older 93 gixer. The reality monster got the best of me, and we shortened our intended ride down by quite a bit, but we still put on tons of mileage. Ahhh, motorcycles.....You don't hear the cagers talking about putting on lots of mileage as a good thing :) Bryan, what corner were you working in??? We walked a little bit of everywhere, but didn't see you or scrappy (then again, I wasn't wearing my glasses either :) Collin _________________________________________ Collin and Penny Fagan LTjg, U.S. Coast Guard (202) 366-0067 (work) (703) 356-4279 (home) (703) 816-7255 (pager) http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/5280/ ride.html (ride sheets) bike.html (pics of the bikes) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Jul 20 17:08:30 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id RAA16999; Sun, 20 Jul 1997 17:08:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id RAA08472; Sun, 20 Jul 1997 17:07:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emout16.mail.aol.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id RAA06560; Sun, 20 Jul 1997 17:07:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Trix099@XXXXXX Received: (from root@localhost) by emout16.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id RAA03991 for dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Sun, 20 Jul 1997 17:07:21 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 17:07:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970720170719_-1459766851@emout16.mail.aol.com> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Unofficial Bikers Homepage Hello: The Unofficial Bikers Homepage has a new name and location. Please stop by for a visit at http://bikerheaven.com Rick From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 11:29:09 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA02785; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:29:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA20476; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:28:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from msexchange.calibresys.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA20192; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:27:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by MSEXCHANGE with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:27:06 -0400 Message-ID: <8C701AD947BED011ABF300805FC1F0620343C6@MSEXCHANGE> From: Amit Chatterjie To: "'balt-cycles@XXXXXX'" , "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" Subject: To The Administrator Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:27:06 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Sorry to post this to everyone but I was wondering if there is a way to suspend messages (ie going on vacation and don't want to clog up the lan server) and then "collect" them when I get back. That way my lan administrator doesn't ruin my day when I get back to work. Thanks, Amit CBR1000 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 11:49:52 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA02928; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:49:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA20976; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:49:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from u1.farm.idt.net by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA21171; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:49:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (kosmas19@localhost) by u1.farm.idt.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA24798; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:49:28 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:46:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Kosmas Sender: kosmas19@XXXXXX To: Amit Chatterjie cc: "'balt-cycles@XXXXXX'" , "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" Subject: Re: To The Administrator In-Reply-To: <8C701AD947BED011ABF300805FC1F0620343C6@MSEXCHANGE> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 21 Jul 1997, Amit Chatterjie wrote: > Sorry to post this to everyone but I was wondering if there is a way to > suspend messages (ie going on vacation and don't want to clog up the lan > server) and then "collect" them when I get back. That way my lan > administrator doesn't ruin my day when I get back to work. If you are on unix make a .forward file with your email address on it bounced off a system in central africa, SE Asia, and Northern Ukraine. i.e. achatter%calibersys.com%central.african.sys.zaire%SE.Asia.sin@XXXXXX This way your emails will just keep going on a wild infinite loop until you come back and remove the file and receive them. Think localy act globaly! Just joking of course :) > Thanks, > Amit > CBR1000 Kosmas From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 15:18:55 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA05986; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 15:18:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA26406; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 15:18:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp1.erols.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA02009; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 15:18:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bergie.erols.com (bergie.erols.com [207.96.57.227]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA00128; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 15:20:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by bergie.erols.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BC95E9.4D44BBC0@XXXXXX>; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 15:18:11 -0400 Message-ID: <01BC95E9.4D44BBC0@bergie.erols.com> From: Bergie Frazier Jr To: "'Lester Gilley'" , "'Tom Black'" , "'Dave Yates (W)'" , "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" , "'Dillon Dickson (ZX11 List)'" , "'Janet C Chow'" To: "'Skipper Norton'" Subject: TEST & TUNE 1/4 MILE Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 15:18:05 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There's going to be an all-day test & tune at Mason Dixon Sat Aug. 2nd. It's $15.00 for all day runs 12noon-5pm time trials only. How about then?? >From what I've heard, it's a decent 1/4 mile track. There won't be any bracket racing that day (time trials only) so it will be a perfect time to go have fun and see what we all can do in the 1/4 mile. If we don't do bikes that day, then I'm taking my car for sure, so either way I will be there. I'd prefer to run the bikes though, since we've been talking about it forever... Anyone interested, please let me know, we can schedule a morning ride then stop by the track for a couple passes for fun!!! Berg/ZX11 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 16:01:31 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA06704; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 16:01:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA26914; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 16:01:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gemini.smart.net by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA04247; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 16:01:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tgimer.smart.net (a2p1dyn.smart.net [206.27.243.33]) by gemini.smart.net (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA32372 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 16:01:36 -0400 Message-Id: <199707212001.QAA32372@gemini.smart.net> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 16:01:44 -0400 From: "Thomas H. Gimer" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: 2 for 1 bike trade opportunity Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've got a two for one deal to make: My '94 ZX-6E and '90 XR600R for a '95 or newer ZX-9R (preferably black or maroon (no green)). The ZX-6E: Black 10k miles new Metzelers Corbin tinted shield The XR600R: Baja Designs conversion IMS 4.7 gallon tank Barkbusters Thumper racing baffle Bought new in '94/low hours This is a great opportunity for someone who wants double the excitement. I live in Washington, DC and have been unable to show the XR the off-road attention it desperately needs. It will need a little altering to make it street legal again, however (needs street legal tires & one signal is cracked). Starts on the first kick and runs very strong. The ZX-6E has never been down or abused and has under 2k miles on the new rubber (ME-Z1/Z2). I would sell the bikes separately, and would also consider trades involving ZX-11s, VFR750s, or '96 ZX-7Rs (again, no green). The ZX-6E is $4500 firm. The XR600R is $2500 firm. I trust you will find that these are very reasonable prices. -- Thomas H. Gimer tgimer@XXXXXX *email address shown here (not in header) is valid* '90 XR600R '93 XR250R '94 ZX-6E AMA#549096 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 22:22:59 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA14808; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 22:22:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA05028; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 22:22:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp3.erols.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA25226; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 22:22:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sturges.erols.com (spg-as24s11.erols.com [207.172.37.202]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA02163; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 22:22:07 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970721222233.006b5d94@pop.erols.com> X-Sender: sturges@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 22:22:46 -0400 To: DC-Cycles List , EX500 List From: Rich and Leslie Sturges Subject: Summit Point Track Record Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" WAAAAHOOOOOO!! David Yaakov set a new motorcycle track record of 1:17.67 at Summit Point on Sunday, July 21, 1997. Way to go Dave! He was riding his yzf750/1000. Also, on Saturday Steve Harris and I were turning mid-1:27's at Summit, a new personal best for each of us on the EX500s. Steve lead the Sportsman race for the first 7.95 laps. rich From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 01:52:26 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id BAA16596; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 01:52:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id BAA09889; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 01:52:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emout03.mail.aol.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id BAA00790; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 01:52:09 -0400 (EDT) From: KLThomas77@XXXXXX Received: (from root@localhost) by emout03.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id BAA25233; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 01:51:37 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 01:51:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970722015137_-1258544321@emout03.mail.aol.com> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, jolie@XXXXXX Subject: Look Ma, I'm on the internet!! Hey, y'all- Andrew Reveles, a VFR lister, put my motorcycles on his web page! He even used a photo that had me in it, which caused his computer to crash! ;-) There are pictures of my 92 VFR750 for sale, my 87 VFR700, and the long awaited photos of my Bikemaster #601122 and 601123 mirrors on the 87. I got a shot of the view through the left mirror with me seated in a riding position. You can hardly see my arm! Try that with your stock mirrors!! You can get these mirrors at most shops for under $15 each. I don't know what they'll do if you don't have an early VFR. So check me out at http://www.public.asu.edu/~gun1234/kevin.html You can get the rest of Andrew's page by removing the "kevin.html" from the address. See ya Kevin From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 12:15:36 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA21054; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 12:15:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA16907; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 12:15:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cap1.CapAccess.org by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA18182; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 12:15:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from garicao@localhost) by cap1.CapAccess.org (8.6.12/8.6.10) id MAA00676; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 12:20:33 -0400 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 12:20:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Garcia Oliver To: dc-cycle Subject: Stolen bike (not mine, this time) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Stolen: 1986 Suzuki GS-550ES Red, Va. tag 85544 serial number JS1GN74A3G2101747 Call Brad Rogow, 301-779-4499 Reward From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 13:50:36 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA24231; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 13:50:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA18204; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 13:50:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from DONALD.CDER.FDA.GOV by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA25592; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 13:50:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mr.cder.fda.gov by fdaserv.cder.fda.gov (PMDF V5.1-8 #9595) id <01ILJFIUJ4N4926AME@XXXXXX> for dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 13:47:08 EDT Received: with PMDF-MR; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 13:39:16 -0400 (EDT) MR-Received: by mta DONALD; Relayed; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 13:39:16 -0400 Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 13:41:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Kirk Roy Subject: Route not TOO far from DC To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 13:41:04 -0400 (EDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal Sensitivity: Company-Confidential UA-content-id: E345IYD2Y2Z7 X400-MTS-identifier: [;61933122707991/1838087@FDACD] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 1 I've been doing some investigating of roads suitable for day trips from home in the DC area. I haven't found any REALLY good ones as close as I like but here's a route a bit further out that will amaze the unamazeable... Starting in Staunton, VA (about 3 hours from DC at I-81 and US250) head west on US250, be sure to follow the signs to stay on US250. After getting out of town you'll spend some time on rather ordinary stretches of road. Once you hit the first ascent, however, you'll know you've come to the right place. Tight, banked corners make this first ascent/descent quite exciting. Lean full left, flick, lean full right, flick, repeat. More of the same, along with some sweepers and decreasing radius corners, will be found along US250. Once in WVa you'll make a right onto VA28. This is a tight intersection with a stop sign. Take the flowing curves of VA28 to a right onto US33. More amazing curves here. That's basically it. US33 will take you back to I-81. If you can't believe what you just did, head back to Staunton and repeat. I estimate total route mileage at about 250 miles. I haven't found a route closer that even touches this one. Colin, is this appropriate for your web page? I could get actual route distances and such (a friend is a cartographer). Anyone up for a ride down there in, say, September? Kirk From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 14:00:15 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA24565; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 14:00:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA18475; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 14:00:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emh3.arl.mil by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA26438; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 14:00:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccMail by emh3.arl.mil (IMA Internet Exchange v1.04) id 3d4f2cc0; Tue, 22 Jul 97 13:50:04 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 13:55:47 -0400 Message-ID: <3d4f2cc0@emh3.arl.mil> From: Dave_Choat@XXXXXX (Dave Choat) Subject: Northeast Cruise To: dc-cycle Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Last Saturday, I intended to blast off for Maine, on my new Wunderbrick BMW K1200. I say intended, because on Thursday before, the bike's fancy ABS system went offline (meaning you get some blinking idiot lights the whole time the bike is on) so Bob's BMW promised to fix it before I left. (I call the bike Wunderbrick right now because it feels so damn solid and heavy) This involved waiting for the BMW rep to drive down on Saturday morning from upstate NY, which he did, because the only computer laptop diagnostic thingy for the ABS module was in his hands. So soon my bike (minus all the hardbags and luggage) was stripped down of fairings and people were wagging their heads and cursing over it. At one point I heard someone say "replace the entire ABS module". Yikes, I am not going to get on the road. After two and a half hours, the fault was cleared (no one knew why it happened) and I had learned some stuff about K1200s. First, Bob's (Bob Henig) are very good people. Bob gave me a tank bag when he heard that I hadn't one to fit the bike, on the premise that I would return "some other time" with the one BMW promised to send me for waiting for the bike. Nifty bag too, installed at no charge. Second, part of the delay on the bike's delivery was because BMW replaced in situ the bike's electronic ignition/injection module AND (remember this) the electric fans on the radiators. They were drawing too much current. So I left, the bike had gotten its break in oil changed, the tires were scrubbed in, and I had to be in Hartford, Connecticut before it got late. Yeehah! So I got onto 95 and blasted off-whereupon a t-shirted idiot on GSXR600 nearly sideswiped me on an entrance ramp. The trip north was pretty mundane, all highway. I noticed that the K-Brick did 85 quite nicely-yet that was the only rpm where there was any detectable vibration. So I stayed on either side of that. In NYC I took a detour around some construction and took an entrance ramp a "little hot". Whoever put that sign up that said 25MPH was a biker. The sign wasn't kidding, and I thought I was going to pull a muscle or two yanking the bike into a very big lean, with concrete barrier wizzing by my right knee too. The Bridgestones did just fine, and I was very humble about these concrete swoopies for the rest of the trip :P. Right around the Connecticut border the mileage hit 1200, which meant that the bike could now handle "full throttle operation". Life will get interesting now. Thus far on the trip the bike has been (1) quiet at any speed, which means no wind buffeting, and this nice deep purr (like a truck way off in the woods doing some compression braking) when the right grip is twisted. (2) It pulls pretty hard no matter where the rpms are, and I have to keep checking to make sure what gear I am in. (3) It is proving to be a stretch for my hands as my right wrist and thumb are smarting-I need something like some bar backs or heli-bars. Or another set of arms, like Larry Byrd's. I turn onto rt84 north, which is a very straight, very flat road. Traffic is light, and all the troopers are gathered around this accident off on the shoulder. After I go by them, I slowly ease on power until the bike is cracked wide open. No flat spots in the power, just pull, Pull, PULL and the world is a green blur. A Mustang GT stays alongside for a while, but they eventually go away. Who needs cool vests at this speed? Better than caffeine too. OK enough of this. I find a friend's place, which is described in their directions as the sixth house past the waterfall (it is, and the waterfall goes under someone's house) where they feed me and even better-let me pull the bike into their basement. Nancy has a ZX-6, and Phil has a HD 883 race looking type bike and a Kaw 750. They were very nice to me and gave me directions and stuff. So I head off North the next day. I am going to a class which starts at 2pm in Rockland, Maine. I am moving along, with brief bursts of speed to pass other vehicles, going 80-90 mph on interstates. As I cross into Maine from New Hampshire (a (*^^*#!! toll for this teeny stretch of raod!) I am on some huge box girder bridge, and I slow down to rubberneck at some ships in the water there (my Dad was in the USN) as I get to the other side of the bridge, this NH State policeman appears on my left. I see him get behind me. I am watching for lights... nope. He takes the next exit ramp and disappears. OK. Back to the autobahn. 95 is two lanes in Maine, and it is a tree tunnel as well. Not 5 minutes later, a Maine State Trooper goes by in the other direction, lights on and flying. Hmmm. Then he appears behind_me_about 5 minutes later. I pull over one lane, but he pulls behind me. Yuk. I t turns out that the NH police told Maine SP I was evading them. This trooper talked to me for about 5 minutes, decided I wasn't running from anyone (and called off the ROADBLOCK!! one exit away) had lasered me at 72 in a 65 and said that they weren't writing people unless they were 25mph (!) over because the driving conditions were excellent. Well shut mah mouth. He said to say hi to his brother who was a MD State Trooper, and also gave me the phone number of the NHSP barrack to call later. Wow. Nice bike, he says. Uh yeah-I am NOT getting a ticket? There was a ROADBLOCK? Man I better play the lottery or something. Holy cow. So I get there at 1:30 pm, having gone 800 miles in 14 hours, including gas, cop, food and stretch stops. Ahh, the cosmic balance though. On the RETURN trip I took a wrong turn and went to Cape Cod, and then the Cross Bronx Expressway ate my radiator circuit. In essence, the bike overheated while I was in the center lane of a no breakdown lane concrete canyon in 3mph traffic, a quarter mile from an exit. One minute the bike is running warm, then the needle zips up into the red zone. I am changing lanes-bam! now steam shoots out from under my right thigh. I get off at the exit and there is an exxon. Here is the amazing part. After the bike is cooled off and refilled (I do not know the fans are bent yet) a New Yorker takes me (I follow) through NYC to where the GW bridge is. He goes down one way streets (the wrong way) and following him is rough, and he is in a car. He does this, and says, see ya later. Just like that. Go figure. He drove like a maniac too. I limp back to Philly. At 85mph the bike stays cool as enough air gets through the radiators. I have now discovered that a hard fitting broke (fluid leak) and the bike eats fuzes. I am really hoping that this bike has a mechanical water pump, turned by the motor, not an electrical one-turned by the dead fuse. I have to get home, so I cross my fingers and keep the temp needle out of the red zone. In Philly the bike is getting hot, and I go into evil street fighter mode (see NY) to stay moving so the bike will stay cool. Fortunatley it is night so I can ride slower. . Coming home the next day is a snap, all highway. Total distance was 1600 odd miles, and the bike is at the shop. I wonder how this will turn out. The service guy said some folks radiator fans never come on in their K bikes, indeed they pack up from disuse. Hunh. Stay tuned. Dave David Choat, Visionary '95 Suzuki RF900R Email: dchoat@XXXXXX '98 BMW K1200RS (the steamer) It doesn't take all kinds of people, we just have them. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 14:21:16 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA25238; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 14:21:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA18795; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 14:21:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp3.erols.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA28180; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 14:21:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from default (spg-as19s35.erols.com [207.172.36.162]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA02900; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 14:20:13 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970722142258.00709efc@mail.geocities.com> X-Sender: gixer@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 14:22:58 -0400 To: Kirk Roy From: "Collin T. Fagan" Subject: Re: Route not TOO far from DC Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sounds great, I recently went on a CAMS ride that followed some of these stretches and it was wonderful. 211 is also like 250 and 33. I've taken it at least once each weekend for the past three weeks, sometimes getting a double shot. Two sets of mountains with 17 miles of the worst speed trap in VA in between. I didn't write it down, cause the ride leader was going to send me the route.....3 weeks now...maybe I oughta try to recreate it myself. When I get a chance, I'll grab the map and put it on my page similar to the others (L on HWY xx, R at rte xx, etc.). Leg distances are nice, but I'm usually way too busy riding on the ones I generated to remember the leg lengths :) In the next day or so, I'll write up Jon & Collin's all day ride from hell. The path we actually took was just over 350 miles starting from Leesburgh and zigzagging between the MD border and 50 all the way out to Winchester, then swinging out and down 42 along the WV border and returning up 211, 522, 647, 55, 626, etc. It would have been more like 425 miles had we not missed a turn and decided to call it a day rather than backtrack. Look for it on the ride sheet page within a day or so....I might even get bored here in a bit since typing a ride sheet is a much more desireable task thatn changing the spark plugs in a 93 GSXR!! Man those things keep gettin more expensive every time I buy em. Up to $8/plug now! At 01:41 PM 7/22/97 -0400, you wrote: >I've been doing some investigating of roads suitable for day trips from >home in the DC area. I haven't found any REALLY good ones as close as I >like but here's a route a bit further out that will amaze the >unamazeable... > >Starting in Staunton, VA (about 3 hours from DC at I-81 and US250) head >west on US250, be sure to follow the signs to stay on US250. After getting >out of town you'll spend some time on rather ordinary stretches of road. >Once you hit the first ascent, however, you'll know you've come to the >right place. Tight, banked corners make this first ascent/descent quite >exciting. Lean full left, flick, lean full right, flick, repeat. More of >the same, along with some sweepers and decreasing radius corners, will be >found along US250. Once in WVa you'll make a right onto VA28. This is a >tight intersection with a stop sign. Take the flowing curves of VA28 to a >right onto US33. More amazing curves here. That's basically it. US33 will >take you back to I-81. If you can't believe what you just did, head back to >Staunton and repeat. I estimate total route mileage at about 250 miles. > >I haven't found a route closer that even touches this one. > >Colin, is this appropriate for your web page? I could get actual route >distances and such (a friend is a cartographer). > >Anyone up for a ride down there in, say, September? > >Kirk > > _________________________________________ Collin and Penny Fagan LTjg, U.S. Coast Guard (202) 366-0067 (work) (703) 356-4279 (home) (703) 816-7255 (pager) http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/5280/ ride.html (ride sheets) bike.html (pics of the bikes) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 15:16:17 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA27039; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 15:16:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA19489; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 15:15:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp2.erols.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA02748; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 15:15:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bergie.erols.com (bergie.erols.com [207.96.57.227]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA08660; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 15:12:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199707221912.PAA08660@smtp2.erols.com> From: "Bergie Frazier Jr" To: "Meier, Christopher" Cc: "'DC Cycles'" Subject: Re: TEST & TUNE 1/4 MILE Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 15:12:37 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To be honest I don't know where the track is located because I've never been there. I've heard it's nice though, and it's one of the only 1/4 mile tracks around MD/VA/DC metro area that has a "test & tune" day scheduled for anytime in the near future. The phone # to the track is 301-416-7700. I'm going to give them a call and try and get some more information. I will post when I find out the specifics. > Yea, I might be interested. Where is this track? Is it at the MD/PA > border as the term "Mason-Dixon" would indicate? > >There's going to be an all-day test & tune at Mason Dixon Sat Aug. 2nd. > >It's $15.00 for all day runs 12noon-5pm time trials only. How about then?? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 16:40:49 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA00533; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 16:40:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA21443; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 16:40:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emout03.mail.aol.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA10478; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 16:40:26 -0400 (EDT) From: KLThomas77@XXXXXX Received: (from root@localhost) by emout03.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id QAA23414; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 16:18:50 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 16:18:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970722161833_1861446033@emout03.mail.aol.com> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, Brian.McCusker@XXXXXX (brianmccusker), MHUGHES@XXXXXX (markhughes), VFRdgz@XXXXXX (donzielke), pklyoung@XXXXXX (peteyoung), triumph1@XXXXXX (billwood), MWISE@XXXXXX (mikewise), jim.warihay@XXXXXX (jimwarihay), dkwagner@XXXXXX (donwagner), klthomas77@XXXXXX (kevinthomas), charles.r.snyder@XXXXXX (chucksnyder), tjs5@XXXXXX (tomsmull), peter.seymour@XXXXXX (peterseymour), tat2d2@XXXXXX (billruiz), mistachuck_d@XXXXXX (chuckriddenhour), Hipar@XXXXXX (waynerhoades), Speed.racer@XXXXXX (andrewreveles), norwexican@XXXXXX (georgenygaard), monnig@XXXXXX (brandonmonnig), mcnichol@XXXXXX (danmcnichol), drm57901@XXXXXX (dennismccarty), modern@XXXXXX (paulmarch), devill@XXXXXX (stevemandeville), parrothd@XXXXXX (jonathonlyons), ntercept@XXXXXX (brucehartig), qsystems@XXXXXX (mikeguillory), kgg01@XXXXXX (kennyguess), frankjm@XXXXXX (jamesfrank), flemming@XXXXXX (sorsdalflemming), jonf@XXXXXX (jonfleming), jdrees@XXXXXX (johndrees), jdenham@XXXXXX (jasondenham), co_2@XXXXXX (joncotterman), dcompson@XXXXXX (davecompson), keb@XXXXXX (keithbrown), oliver@XXXXXX (oliverpflug), philstone@XXXXXX (philstone) Subject: keeping a briefcase on an 87 VFR Hey, y'all- I've stopped using my backpack in favor of a briefcase. That lets my jacket vent much better. The briefcase is a nylon one, and it has a shoulder strap, but I don't want to carry it on my back. I've been using a bungee net to hold it onto the pillion, and it's been sliding off the sides today. Maybe my net is getting stretched, but it ought to last more than a week. So, does anybody have a good way to keep the case on the bike? Thanks Kevin From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 18:47:30 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id SAA03369; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 18:47:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id SAA23542; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 18:47:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id SAA18421; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 18:47:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA01542; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 17:46:24 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mar-wv2-19.ix.netcom.com(205.184.22.83) by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma001467; Tue Jul 22 17:45:52 1997 Message-ID: <33D5638A.1E0@ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 18:51:06 -0700 From: Ken Shephard Reply-To: shephar1@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-NC320 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: xl-list@XXXXXX, dc-cycles Subject: PA H.O.G. Rally Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Evening everyone, Anybody on the list going up to the PA HOG Rally this weekend in State College PA. I have not decided when I am going up yet, either Friday or very early Sat AM depending on the weather. I'll be leaving from Inwood WV, thats not far from Summit Point, , I know your all familar with that. Later on , Ride Safe, Ken (aka HDKnight) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 18:56:54 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id SAA03428; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 18:56:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id SAA23597; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 18:56:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emout12.mail.aol.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id SAA18724; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 18:56:47 -0400 (EDT) From: KLThomas77@XXXXXX Received: (from root@localhost) by emout12.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id SAA09018; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 18:56:16 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 18:56:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970722185557_27803511@emout12.mail.aol.com> To: bergie@XXXXXX, MEIERCH@XXXXXX cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: TEST & TUNE 1/4 MILE mason-dixon is in Hagerstown. Not far off 70. Been there once, a while ago. See ya Kevin BTW, AFAIK, 75-80 dragway has test&tune weekly. I assume that includes bikes. Monrovia, Md, just off 270 south of frederick From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 19:28:42 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id TAA03680; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 19:28:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id TAA24259; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 19:28:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from msexchange.calibresys.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id TAA19837; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 19:28:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by MSEXCHANGE with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 19:27:32 -0400 Message-ID: <8C701AD947BED011ABF300805FC1F0620343CE@MSEXCHANGE> From: Amit Chatterjie To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" Subject: FW: Northeast Cruise Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 19:27:30 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) '98 BMW K1200RS (the steamer) - Now this would be you or the bike? I applaud your patience. If I spent that much money on a bike I would have gone ballistic with the first problem. I would probably even have my German mother provide me with some choice words. My first and only K100 back in ~'82 (when they first came out) developed a problem with the "black box" at the first sign of rain. I had just gotten it and was heading down to a BMW meet in Italy. After doing the last 50 miles at 35 mph (max. rpm permitted by "black box") I got to the meet. They put the bike in a BMW truck at the meet and de-gutted it much the way you describe. My Bavarian heritage displayed it's fiesty side. They did get it fixed though and we all drank lot's of German beer to forget the incidient ever happened. I won a trophy at the meet for the most effort used in trying to get to the meet. I have actually been considering getting one. I'm not sure that I'm so enthused after your rendition. Besides, Bob's was supposed to call me in for a test drive when they came in. So much for their follow-up. Hope they put you back on the bike soon. Amit CBR1000 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 20:37:54 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id UAA04664; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 20:37:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id UAA25118; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 20:37:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emout28.mail.aol.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id UAA22337; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 20:37:42 -0400 (EDT) From: KLThomas77@XXXXXX Received: (from root@localhost) by emout28.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id UAA27796; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 20:37:11 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 20:37:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970722203504_983604460@emout09.mail.aol.com> To: Dave_Choat@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Northeast Cruise& evading police Dave- A VFR lister recently posted a story about what happened when he allegedly "evaded" police in his home town (somewhere in CA, I think). He was wearing earplugs and had no mirrors and loud pipes, I think(all bad ideas, I know). The mirrors were off only temporarily, following a wreck or something. A cop apparently followed him for some time, allegedly with lights and siren, while he rode near the speed limit, obeying all traffic signals. My memory fades here for a bit, but it ultimately ended with the cops throwing him on the ground, jumping on him, cuffing him (no beating with sticks), all while his VFR fell over. The cop cars all had video, so he's going to sue, and they'll have to produce the tape. I believe they eventually straightened out their misunderstanding at the scene and the cops sent him on his way. Maybe other VFR listers on this list can fill in the blanks in my story. Glad you avoided jail and the tow truck. See ya Kevin From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 23 08:20:27 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id IAA09847; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 08:20:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id IAA03241; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 08:19:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hub02.tds-gn.lmco.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id IAA09735; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 08:19:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by hub02.tds-gn.lmco.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) id <01BC9740.C42F8140@XXXXXX>; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 08:16:48 -0400 Message-ID: From: To: , , , , , To: , , , , , To: , , , , , To: , , , , , To: , , , , , To: , , , , , To: Subject: RE: keeping a briefcase on an 87 VFR Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 08:16:45 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 Encoding: 46 TEXT My bungee net has gone south, too, although it lasted longer than a week. It seems the black ones go away faster than the red ones (in my experience, my red one has had more use, and is still way stronger. Heat retention in the sun? Who knows? Maybe I'll have to break down and invest in $addlebag$. Sigh. Horkster ---------- From: KLThomas77@XXXXXX[SMTP:KLThomas77@XXXXXX] Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 1997 4:18 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Brian.McCusker@XXXXXX; MHUGHES@XXXXXX; VFRdgz@XXXXXX; pklyoung@XXXXXX; triumph1@XXXXXX; MWISE@XXXXXX; jim.warihay@XXXXXX; dkwagner@XXXXXX; klthomas77@XXXXXX; charles.r.snyder@XXXXXX; tjs5@XXXXXX; peter.seymour@XXXXXX; tat2d2@XXXXXX; mistachuck_d@XXXXXX; Hipar@XXXXXX; Speed.racer@XXXXXX; norwexican@XXXXXX; monnig@XXXXXX; mcnichol@XXXXXX; drm57901@XXXXXX; modern@XXXXXX; devill@XXXXXX; parrothd@XXXXXX; ntercept@XXXXXX; qsystems@XXXXXX; kgg01@XXXXXX; frankjm@XXXXXX; flemming@XXXXXX; jonf@XXXXXX; jdrees@XXXXXX; jdenham@XXXXXX; co_2@XXXXXX; dcompson@XXXXXX; keb@XXXXXX; oliver@XXXXXX; philstone@XXXXXX Subject: keeping a briefcase on an 87 VFR Hey, y'all- I've stopped using my backpack in favor of a briefcase. That lets my jacket vent much better. The briefcase is a nylon one, and it has a shoulder strap, but I don't want to carry it on my back. I've been using a bungee net to hold it onto the pillion, and it's been sliding off the sides today. Maybe my net is getting stretched, but it ought to last more than a week. So, does anybody have a good way to keep the case on the bike? Thanks Kevin From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 23 09:40:32 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA10583; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 09:40:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA04257; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 09:40:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from andrew.cais.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA13081; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 09:40:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.161.65.74] (richwest.cais.com [206.161.65.74]) by andrew.cais.com (8.8.4/8.8.4/CJKv1.99-CAIS) with ESMTP id JAA23426 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 09:40:11 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 09:40:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: richwest@XXXXXX Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Richard Westbrook Subject: Paint Shops Does anyone know where I can go to get my 1995 Honda VFR750 painted? How much it will cost? How long will it take? I was in an accident and am getting a lot of replacement plastic so I thought while the bike is in pieces I could get it painted a different color (and because I got a little xtra from insurance) Thanks Richard Westbrook Art Director U.S. Conference of Mayors From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 23 10:04:29 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA10749; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 10:04:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA04675; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 10:04:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from beta.mcit.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA14163; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 10:04:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ndcrelay.mcit.com (ndcrelay.mcit.com [166.37.172.49]) by beta.mcit.com (8.8.6/) with ESMTP id JAA29049; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 09:03:40 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pop4a.mail.mci.com (pop4a.mail.mci.com [166.37.172.5]) by ndcrelay.mcit.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA23501; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 10:03:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [166.41.209.2] by pop4a.mail.mci.com (Post.Office MTA v3.0 release "turbo_2" ID# 1-123U25000L1S10) with SMTP id AAA30160; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 10:03:38 -0400 To: "KLThomas77@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: keeping a briefcase on an 87 VFR Date: Wed, 23 Jul 97 07:03:44 -0500 From: "Linda Tanner" X-Mailer: messageMCI v3.3 CC: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Message-ID: <19970723140336.AAA30160@[166.41.209.2]> -- [ From: Linda J. Tanner * EMC.Ver #3.3 ] -- I have a tank bag that has a three point attachment harness - two around the handlebars and one up from under the seat. I attached the same connectors to my canvas briefcase and carried it as a tank bag. My current bike's tank is shorter than my last bike and it's not quite as comfortable, so I usually carry it in my saddlebags now, but the connectors are still there. LindaT. 95 F3 Purple Haze -------- REPLY, Original message follows -------- > Date: Tuesday, 22-Jul-97 03:18 PM > > From: KLThomas77@XXXXXX \ America On-Line: () > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX \ Internet: (dc-cycles@XXXXXX) > To: Brian.McCusker@XXXXXX \ Internet: > (brian.mccusker@XXXXXX) > To: MHUGHES@XXXXXX \ Internet: (mhughes@XXXXXX) > To: VFRdgz@XXXXXX \ America On-Line: () > To: pklyoung@XXXXXX \ Internet: (pklyoung@XXXXXX) > To: triumph1@XXXXXX \ Internet: (triumph1@XXXXXX) > To: MWISE@XXXXXX \ Internet: (mwise@XXXXXX) > To: jim.warihay@XXXXXX \ Internet: (jim.warihay@XXXXXX) > To: dkwagner@XXXXXX \ Internet: (dkwagner@XXXXXX) > To: KLThomas77@XXXXXX \ America On-Line: () > To: charles.r.snyder@XXXXXX \ Internet: (charles.r.snyder@XXXXXX) > To: tjs5@XXXXXX \ Internet: (tjs5@XXXXXX) > To: peter.seymour@XXXXXX \ Internet: > (peter.seymour@XXXXXX) > To: tat2d2@XXXXXX \ America On-Line: () > To: mistachuck_d@XXXXXX \ Internet: (mistachuck_d@XXXXXX) > To: Hipar@XXXXXX \ Internet: (hipar@XXXXXX) > To: Speed.racer@XXXXXX \ Internet: (speed.racer@XXXXXX) > To: norwexican@XXXXXX \ America On-Line: () > To: Brandon Monnig \ Internet: (monnig@XXXXXX) > To: mcnichol@XXXXXX \ Internet: (mcnichol@XXXXXX) > To: drm57901@XXXXXX \ Internet: (drm57901@XXXXXX) > To: modern@XXXXXX \ Internet: (modern@XXXXXX) > To: devill@XXXXXX \ America On-Line: () > To: parrothd@XXXXXX \ Internet: (parrothd@XXXXXX) > To: ntercept@XXXXXX \ Internet: (ntercept@XXXXXX) > To: qsystems@XXXXXX \ Internet: (qsystems@XXXXXX) > To: kgg01@XXXXXX \ Internet: (kgg01@XXXXXX) > To: frankjm@XXXXXX \ Internet: (frankjm@XXXXXX) > To: flemming@XXXXXX \ Internet: (flemming@XXXXXX) > To: jonf@XXXXXX \ Internet: (jonf@XXXXXX) > To: jdrees@XXXXXX \ Internet: (jdrees@XXXXXX) > To: jdenham@XXXXXX \ Internet: (jdenham@XXXXXX) > To: co_2@XXXXXX \ Internet: > (co_2@XXXXXX) > To: dcompson@XXXXXX \ Internet: (dcompson@XXXXXX) > To: keb@XXXXXX \ Internet: (keb@XXXXXX) > To: oliver@XXXXXX \ Internet: (oliver@XXXXXX) > To: philstone@XXXXXX \ Internet: (philstone@XXXXXX) > > Subject: keeping a briefcase on an 87 VFR > > Hey, y'all- > > I've stopped using my backpack in favor of a briefcase. That lets my jacket > vent much better. The briefcase is a nylon one, and it has a shoulder strap, > but I don't want to carry it on my back. I've been using a bungee net to > hold it onto the pillion, and it's been sliding off the sides today. Maybe > my net is getting stretched, but it ought to last more than a week. So, does > anybody have a good way to keep the case on the bike? > > Thanks > Kevin -------- REPLY, End of original message -------- From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 23 10:09:57 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA10796; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 10:09:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA04716; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 10:09:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from minet.marriott.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA14375; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 10:09:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mih.marriott.com by minet.marriott.com (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA59500; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 10:04:50 -0400 Received: from ccMail by mih.marriott.com (ccMail Link to SMTP R6.00.02) id AA869667279; Wed, 23 Jul 97 10:14:41 -0500 Message-Id: <9707238696.AA869667279@mih.marriott.com> X-Mailer: ccMail Link to SMTP R6.00.02 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 97 10:14:16 -0500 From: "Mehran Firouzbakht" To: , Subject: Re: Paint Shops Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit GLS Auto Body in Rockville is the best place around here that I know of. Lee (the owner) has painted many bikes for my friends and I. He does an excellent job because he too owns a race bike and knows how important a paint job on a bike. His number is 301-279-2410. He charges anywhere from $300 - $500 depending on the job. ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Paint Shops Author: Richard Westbrook at internet Date: 7/23/97 9:40 AM Does anyone know where I can go to get my 1995 Honda VFR750 painted? How much it will cost? How long will it take? I was in an accident and am getting a lot of replacement plastic so I thought while the bike is in pieces I could get it painted a different color (and because I got a little xtra from insurance) Thanks Richard Westbrook Art Director U.S. Conference of Mayors From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 23 11:07:33 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA11403; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 11:07:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA06211; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 11:07:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp2.erols.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA17128; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 11:07:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cb1.bah.com ([156.80.43.128] (may be forged)) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA09717 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 11:07:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33D61FBA.14F8@erols.com> Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 11:14:02 -0400 From: Bryndyn Weiner Reply-To: rzbean@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: keeping a briefcase on an 87 VFR References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit dale.r.horstman@XXXXXX wrote: > > My bungee net has gone south, too, although it lasted longer than a week. > > It seems the black ones go away faster than the red ones (in my experience, > my red one has > had more use, and is still way stronger. Heat retention in the sun? Who > knows? They'll last a little longer if you don't leave them stretched out on the bike when they are not in use. I'd suggest getting a tail bag. -- Bryndyn Weiner email: rzbean@XXXXXX "It only takes two-strokes to get me excited." RZ350, CB-1 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 23 12:22:53 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA12370; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 12:22:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA07742; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 12:21:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from goliath.intelsol.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA20885; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 12:21:08 -0400 (EDT) From: sbeck@XXXXXX Received: by goliath.intelsol.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.06 (346.8 3-18-1997)) id 852564DD.0059B27E ; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 12:19:43 -0400 X-Lotus-FromDomain: ISI To: Loupil@XXXXXX, askstephen@XXXXXX, philipa@XXXXXX, anniem@XXXXXX, baldwin2@XXXXXX, saturnsr1@XXXXXX, remenick@XXXXXX, Biker413@XXXXXX, syswsb@XXXXXX, bill.maggs@XXXXXX, billsch@XXXXXX, blase.morgan@XXXXXX, bmonaco@XXXXXX, tobias@XXXXXX, botcher1@XXXXXX, bdouglas@XXXXXX, BWEINER@XXXXXX, Chris.Kleponis@XXXXXX, cnorloff@XXXXXX, dorman@XXXXXX, jonesw@XXXXXX, cfagan@XXXXXX, conteh@XXXXXX, hintze@XXXXXX, dale@XXXXXX, dutchd@XXXXXX, hacker@XXXXXX, davenunn@XXXXXX, dotis@XXXXXX, dstrout@XXXXXX, creativ3@XXXXXX, manteid@XXXXXX, BKVA1@XXXXXX, bellomo@XXXXXX, Cooper@XXXXXX, Edward_Shea@XXXXXX, ecrosen@XXXXXX, fsupik@XXXXXX, gcraddoc@XXXXXX, GRALNGAA@XXXXXX, HDWarp80@XXXXXX, hmanell@XXXXXX, hugo1200@XXXXXX, jchi@XXXXXX, bsajim@XXXXXX, jlevine@XXXXXX, levine97@XXXXXX, jckozyn@XXXXXX, jeffp@XXXXXX, engine14@XXXXXX, jimb@XXXXXX, jimi@XXXXXX, Joe_Snider@XXXXXX, jcclaman@XXXXXX, jschaaf@XXXXXX, WeinsteJ@XXXXXX, jrduffy@XXXXXX, soukupj@XXXXXX, kbour@XXXXXX, larry_wilson@XXXXXX, linda.tanner@XXXXXX, louieb386@XXXXXX, louis@XXXXXX, mackinto@XXXXXX, elliottm@XXXXXX, matthew_farina@XXXXXX, mjhayes@XXXXXX, mducey@XXXXXX, mdow@XXXXXX, kmlee@XXXXXX, morris@XXXXXX, mxc11@XXXXXX, nicholsn@XXXXXX, padoug@XXXXXX, pwwisnes@XXXXXX, pdenno@XXXXXX, Pcoleman@XXXXXX, penneyps@XXXXXX, 74537.1737@XXXXXX, Randy.Chartier@XXXXXX, RFRAER@XXXXXX, RichDe@XXXXXX, darden@XXXXXX, spak@XXXXXX, sbeck@XXXXXX, scotje@XXXXXX, slarrab@XXXXXX, SRFox@XXXXXX, steeleg@XXXXXX, 103126.2533@XXXXXX, steveb@XXXXXX, STEVE_JOHNSON@XXXXXX, higdont@XXXXXX, thomas_meeker@XXXXXX, botcher@XXXXXX, Tracy-Minter@XXXXXX, VZO1@XXXXXX, wrohara@XXXXXX, wjm1@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Message-ID: <852564DD.0055475C.00@goliath.intelsol.com> Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 12:17:40 -0400 Subject: Hill Climb Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Todd PS. Weekend of 8/3...motorcycle Hill Climbs. Steve B. You have the details..pass 'em on... OK all you CAMS, CAMMETTES, DC-CYCLERS and any other individuals that might end up getting this message. On Sunday August 3 the White Rose Motorcycle Club is having an All Star Pro National Hill Climb at their clubgrounds in Spring Grove PA. This is a really fun event. Riders compete to see who can get up the hill the fastest. Each rider gets two tries in each class. Fastest rider to the top is the winner. Most of the bikes are highly modified, nitro burning, 3 foot extended swingarm, monsters with chains or paddles on the rear tires. Lots of old Triumphs, BSA's, Harleys and a smattering of 2 stroke modern dirt bikes and even some old 2 stroke, 3 cylinder Kawi's at times. The racing starts at 1:00 pm. The distance from Northern Virginia is approximately 100 miles. We'll be meeting at the usual place (Fairfax Silver Diner) on Sunday morning and leaving no later than 9:00 AM. The ride up will be about 2.5 to 3 hours. Please arrive with a full tank of gas. And if you decide to bring refreshments along, make sure you have no glass and no beverages in glass bottles (They don't permit them at the clubgrounds). Coolers are limited to 16 by 16 inches at biggest point. They do sell the standard Hot dogs, Hamburgers, fries, chips and sodas as usual. And they also have some very good fried fish sandwiches that they seem to take a lot of pride in. So if you would like to attend a fun and exciting event, please consider coming along. Steve Beck ____ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 23 16:31:23 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA16063; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 16:31:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA16243; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 16:30:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp1.erols.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA03924; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 16:30:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bergie.erols.com (bergie.erols.com [207.96.57.227]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA00259; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 16:33:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by bergie.erols.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BC9785.B0A85E40@XXXXXX>; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 16:30:10 -0400 Message-ID: <01BC9785.B0A85E40@bergie.erols.com> From: Bergie Frazier Jr To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" Cc: "'Lester Gilley'" , "'Janet C Chow'" , "'Tom Black'" , "'Dave Yates (W)'" , "'Dillon Dickson (ZX11 List)'" Subject: CYCLE DRAG 080397 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 16:30:07 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This may be an ever better idea than the Mason Dixon trip, although that is not out of the picture. I'm DEFINATELY going to M.I.R. on 8/3 (which happens to be my birthday) for the following event: Anyone interested in meeting there or coming with me, please reply. I plan on running my bike during the time trails and the main event. ** 1997 SuperBike Showdown #2 ** WHERE: Maryland International Raceway, Budds Creek, MD=20 DATE: Sunday, August 3=20 COST: $10 per person; ages eleven and under free with paying adult.=20 PHONE: 301-449-RACE (free from the Washington Metro area)=20 TIME: Gates open 10am; time runs 10am to 2pm; race begins 2pm=20 FROM MARYLAND/DC: Take Washington Beltway exit 7A (Route 5) south 30 = miles to Md. Route 234, then left seven miles. MIR is on the right. = Baltimore area fans take Route 301 to Route 5.=20 FROM VIRGINIA: Take Route 17 or 64 to Route 301 North to Maryland. At 17 = and 301 intersection, continue 20 miles North to Md. Route 234, then = right seven miles. MIR is on the right.=20 INFO: The SuperBike Showdown is MIR's biannual "motorcycles only" race. = The event is expected to draw hundreds of motorcycles from a five-state = area to compete for the $2,000 winners purse. An all new Street Bike = class will compete also. The SuperBike Showdown will use the "ET = (elapsed time) racing" format: racers make several time runs, then use = the accumulated data to predict their performance in eliminations. The = winner is the racer who combines the quickest starting line reaction = time with the closest run to his or her performance prediction From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 23 20:04:18 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id UAA21266; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 20:04:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id UAA20856; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 20:03:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from server2.illuminet.net by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id UAA17753; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 20:03:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mrider.illuminet.net (dialup6.illuminet.net [205.215.55.6]) by server2.illuminet.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA18194; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 20:34:07 -0400 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970723200349.00686ad4@illuminet.net> X-Sender: mrider@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 20:03:49 +0000 To: Richard Westbrook , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Leon Begeman Subject: Re: Paint Shops At 09:40 23-07-97 -0400, Richard Westbrook wrote: >Does anyone know where I can go to get my 1995 Honda VFR750 painted? > >How much it will cost? > >How long will it take? > A guy named Steve in Southern Maryland painted my Ninja 250 for $100. He sprayed both colors and a clear coat. He doesn't do bodywork. I think he already had the John Deere Green and Yellow on hand, it took him about 2 weeks. You'd probably want to paint a VFR in Farmall Red and White though. ;-) Leon. I've got his number if you're interested. Leon Begeman (703) 590-9073 13391 Packard Dr., Dale City, VA 22193 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 09:07:27 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA02074; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 09:07:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA29514; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 09:06:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emh3.arl.mil by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA17595; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 09:06:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccMail by emh3.arl.mil (IMA Internet Exchange v1.04) id 3d750da0; Thu, 24 Jul 97 08:55:54 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 09:07:24 -0400 Message-ID: <3d750da0@emh3.arl.mil> From: Dave_Choat@XXXXXX (Dave Choat) Subject: Re[2]: Paint Shops To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part A guy named Steve in Southern Maryland painted my Ninja 250 for $100. He sprayed both colors and a clear coat. He doesn't do bodywork. I think he already had the John Deere Green and Yellow on hand, it took him about 2 weeks. You'd probably want to paint a VFR in Farmall Red and White though. ;-) Now wait just a cotton pickin minute here. I resent the agrarian slant of your color palette! Southern Maryland boasts many other paint schemes! There is also Allison-Chalmers Orange, Oyster Boat Off White, and the ever popular Massey Ferguson Tu-Tone. Caterpillar Yellow is another contender as well. This doesn't even include the schemes practiced by the denizens of the Naval Air Warfare Center, such as Mist Grey over Sea Grey, or Splinter Gray and Haze Grey, or Grey, Gray, Grey and Bluish Gray with Gray lines and Insignia, or Arctic White and Testbed Orange. Please note that these designs include Titanium Green wheel wells, with all intake and exhaust ports clearly marked. Heck that could be pretty nifty, having a bike tricked out like an F-18. Hmmm. Dave From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 11:30:01 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA03761; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 11:30:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA03524; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 11:29:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp2.erols.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA23549; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 11:29:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bergie.erols.com (bergie.erols.com [207.96.57.227]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA08886; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 11:28:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199707241528.LAA08886@smtp2.erols.com> From: "Bergie Frazier Jr" To: "George Howell" Cc: "'DC Cycles'" Subject: Re: CYCLE DRAG 080397 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 11:27:39 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I live four miles from that track! Keep me informed, as I might try to > get down there to spectate (as opposed to compete) Remember, you don't actually have to participate in the drag race to get in on the practice sessions. From 10am-2pm you can run your bike down the 1/4mile strip as fast (or as slow) as you want, as many times as you can during that time. I'm sure alot of you guys are interested in just practicing a hard launch or maybe just running it up to about 125-140mph without the risk of getting a speeding ticket. It should be fun for everyone, regardless. Hope to see everyone there. Berg From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 13:52:00 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA07298; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 13:51:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA08542; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 13:51:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from DONALD.CDER.FDA.GOV by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA03988; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 13:51:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mr.cder.fda.gov by fdaserv.cder.fda.gov (PMDF V5.1-8 #9595) id <01ILM7RSFW0G926O2Y@XXXXXX> for dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 13:46:44 EDT Received: with PMDF-MR; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 13:43:03 -0400 (EDT) MR-Received: by mta DONALD; Relayed; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 13:43:03 -0400 Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 13:44:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Kirk Roy Subject: NHC: FS - Suzuki GSF400 Bandit To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, Hawk Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 13:44:52 -0400 (EDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal Sensitivity: Company-Confidential UA-content-id: E748IYF2YTYZ X400-MTS-identifier: [;30343142707991/1843875@FDACD] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 1 1991 Suzuki GSF400 Bandit 7,500 miles New ME33/ME55 tires Spitfire windscreen Cobra ZR-1 Slip-on Excellent condition $2,750 Darrell Roy Upper Marlboro, MD 202-514-6918 301-856-9210 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 17:03:40 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id RAA12025; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 17:03:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id RAA11684; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 17:03:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from alpha.mcit.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id RAA17060; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 17:03:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ndcrelay.mcit.com (ndcrelay.mcit.com [166.37.172.49]) by alpha.mcit.com (8.8.6/) with ESMTP id RAA01273 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 17:02:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pop1a.mail.mci.com (pop1a.mail.mci.com [166.37.204.5]) by ndcrelay.mcit.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id RAA26665 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 17:02:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localHost ([166.41.242.141]) by pop1a.mail.mci.com (Post.Office MTA v3.0 release "turbo_2" ID# 1-123U25000L1S10) with SMTP id AAA16485 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 14:12:27 -0500 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 15:09 -0400 (EDT) From: "Todd B Peer" To: dc-cycles Subject: Mobil Oil FAQ X-Mailer: MailRoom v2.1e Message-ID: <19970724191226.AAA16485@localHost> X-post from ST1100 list..... Forwarded...________________________________ This FAQ was copied from the Mobil Webpage http://www.mobil.com/consumer/mobil1/mobil1/mobil1faq.html Hope this is helpful to the group...Yes Martha, you can use it in Motorcycles. Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) The following questions are all viscosity grades of Mobil 1 engine oil. Q. WHAT IS MOBIL 1 ? A. Mobil 1 is a fully synthetic hydrocarbon oil for automotive type engines. It is a polyalphaolefin (PAO) and ester based oil available in four viscosity grades - 0W-30, 5W-30, 10W-30 and 15W-50. Mobil 1 exceeds API service ratings SJ/CF. Mobil 1 0W-30, 5W-30 and 10W-30 also meet ILSAC GF-2 requirements. As SJ/CF rated oils, Mobil 1 can be used wherever an API SH, SG, SF or SE oil is called for in the owner's manual. As a CF rated oil, Mobil 1 can also be used in diesel engines calling for a CD oil. Q. IS MOBIL 1 100 PERCENT OF FULLY SYNTHETIC OIL ? A. Yes, Mobil 1 is a 100 percent synthetic oil. The base stocks used in blending Mobil 1 are all "chemically constructed" instead of being simply segregated out of crude oil like conventional mineral oils. Semi-synthetic oils are blends of synthetic base stocks, conventional mineral oil base stocks and additives. The synthetic base oil component can be as little as 10 percent of the total product in these semi-synthetic products. We simply suggest that you do not assume that "a blend" contains a high percentage of synthetic base stocks. Q. WHEN CAN I START USING MOBIL 1 ? CAN MOBIL 1 BE USED IN AN OLDER VEHICLE ? A. You can start using Mobil 1 in new vehicles at any time. In fact, Mobil 1 is the factory fill for the Corvette LT-1 and LT-5 engines. And, Mobil and Porsche just announced a new partnership that will also have all Porsche cars manufactured at Zuffenhausen plant will be lubricated with Mobil 1. One of the myths that persists about Mobil 1 is that new engines require a break-in period with conventional oil. Current engine manufacturing technology does not require this break-in period. As the decisions by the engineers who design the Corvette and Porsche engines indicate, Mobil 1 can be used in an engine from the day you drive the car off the show room floor. Mobil 1 can also be used in older vehicles with high mileage on them. However, in older vehicles, if there is a problem with oil consumption or leakage, it may not be economically wise to convert to Mobil 1 until such mechanical problems have been corrected. Q. IS MOBIL 1 A PROVEN OIL ? A. Yes. Mobil 1 has demonstrated outstanding performance capabilities in a number of ways: - Through a very extensive testing program during initial and ongoing development, - Through 20 years of service in real world applications, - And, through use in every high performance racing series throughout the racing world; including Indy Car, NASCAR and Formula 1. Q. WILL MOBIL 1 HELP MY ENGINE LAST LONGER ? A. Yes, with good maintenance practices. Mobil 1 utilizes a synthetic base stock which is free of any compounds that can readily oxidize or form varnish. The Mobil developed optimally balanced additive package handles sludge and acid that could corrode metal surfaces or contribute to harmful deposits. Advanced formula Mobil 1 has been tested for 200,000 miles in Oldsmobile and BMW engines with virtually no measurable wear. Q. DO I NEED TO FLUSH MY ENGINE BEFORE CONVERTING TO MOBIL 1 ? A. No. There is no special preparation necessary when converting from conventional oil to Mobil 1. In fact, Mobil 1 is compatible with conventional oil should it be necessary to mix the two. However, the superior performance characteristics of Mobil 1 will be reduced by diluting it with conventional oil. Mixing different types of synthetic oils is not recommended since different oils may be composed of different types of synthetic stocks. Change the oil and filter before changing from another synthetic oil to Mobil 1. Q. WILL THE USE OF MOBIL 1 VOID MY NEW CAR WARRANTY ? A. Absolutely not. Mobil 1 exceeds the API engine oil service requirements of all new car manufacturers. This includes both American and foreign-made autos. The only exception to this is the Mazda RX-7 rotary engine which recommends against using any synthetic oil. However, we understand that there is a persistent myth about Mobil 1 voiding warranties. When Mobil 1 was first introduced 20 years ago, it was such a revolutionary product that many automotive manufacturers who had not had a chance to test the product advised dealers that use of a synthetic could void warranties. There were also concern about extended drain claims made about synthetic oils. Within a relatively short period of time, automobile manufacturers recognized that synthetic oils provide excellent performance and at a minimum allow its use, and in some cases use Mobil 1 as initial fill. Q. WHERE CAN I OBTAIN MOBIL 1 SYNTHETIC OIL ? A. Mobil 1 is available at a wide range of retail locations, including mass merchandisers, membership clubs, auto parts stores and Mobil service stations. Click Here for a list of mass merchandisers and major auto parts chains that carry Mobil 1. Many quick lube and car dealerships also carry Mobil 1 and will install it for you. Q. ARE SPECIAL OIL FILTERS REQUIRED WITH THE USE OF MOBIL 1 ? A. No. The same type of oil filter that you normally would use with conventional oil is satisfactory when using Mobil 1. We recommend that the oil filter be changed when you change your oil. The filter is an important component of effective maintenance procedures. Q. WHY DOESN'T MOBIL 1 COME IN A 5W-50 VISCOSITY GRADE ? A. We have attempted to provide the best selection of viscosity grades for the broadest number of vehicles and consumer applications. We offer SAE 5W-30 and 10W-30 grades based on current US car manufacturers recommendations. These oils meet the new API Energy Conserving level fuel efficiency requirements, provide excellent low temperature pumpability and high temperature stability. We offer a 15W-50 grade for the high performance enthusiast that is going to push their engine to its performance limits, which deals with the high temperature end of the performance spectrum. The API/AAMA (American Petroleum Institute and American Automobile Manufacturers Association) certification program for gasoline engine oils includes a "starburst" symbol for gasoline engine oils. This symbol can only be used on oils meeting the Energy Conserving criteria. Our 0W-30, 5W-30 and 10W-30 grades meet this criteria. A 5W-50 grade does not. In summary, we believe that our grades offer our consumers an excellent series of choices, providing engine protection, fuel efficiency and are consistent with car manufacturer's recommendations. Q. HOW OFTEN SHOULD I CHANGE THE OIL WHEN USING MOBIL 1 ? A. Driving habits, driving conditions and driving environments all can have an influence on oil change frequency. We recommend that you follow the oil and filter change frequencies shown in your owner's manual, especially during the warranty period. The excellent protection you get from Mobil 1 gives you the confidence to go to the full length of the mileage or time frame recommended for changes by the manufacturer. Q. CAN I USE ADDITIVE SUPPLEMENTS AND/OR ENGINE TREATMENTS WITH MOBIL 1 ? A. We DO NOT recommend the use of any additive supplements or engine treatments with Mobil 1. Mobil 1 has been formulated to greatly exceed the most severe industry and engine manufacturers' requirements. Using additive supplements will not improve the long-term performance of Mobil 1, and our tests indicate that use may actually degrade product performance. Tests have shown that some additive supplements may significantly alter the performance and properties of any lubricant. In several cases, additive supplements have been detrimental to viscosity, storage stability and reduced protection against the formation of deposits. The use of any oil supplements are not recommended by car manufacturers and may void the new car warranty. Q. IS MOBIL 1 COMPATIBLE WITH THE SEALS AND GASKETS IN NEW AND OLDER VEHICLES ? M- A. Mobil 1 is fully compatible with the elastomeric materials from which automotive seals and gaskets are made. In fact, Mobil 1 meets the requirements of seal performance tests established by a number of engine manufacturers. In vehicles that are in good condition, there should not be any problems with compatibility. However, if the seals have hardened and have started to shrink, you may notice some seepage. Q. CAN MOBIL 1 BE USED IN AIRPLANE ENGINES ? A. No. Do NOT use Mobil 1 in airplane engines. The additive technology required for aircraft engines differs from that required for passenger vehicles. Q. CAN MOBIL 1 BE USED IN AUTOMOTIVE TRANSMISSIONS ? A. If the transmission is an automatic, we have a synthetic automatic transmission fluid (ATF) called, appropriately enough, Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF. Mobil 1 motor oil should not be used in automatic transmissions. If the transmission is a manual transmission, the owner's manual recommendations should be followed. If a motor oil is called for, Mobil 1 can be used. Q. CAN MOBIL 1 BE USED IN DIESEL ENGINES ? A. Mobil 1 will provide excellent service for passenger car and light-duty truck diesel engines that call for API CD or CF quality oils. Diesel engines that call for CE, CF-4 or CG-4 should use Mobil Delvac 1 synthetic engine oil, or Mobil Delvac 1300 Super. Recent emission regulations have resulted in new diesel engine technology - particularly on large diesel engines, that require different performance characteristics than automobile gasoline engines. Delvac products can be purchased at a large number of truckstops across America, some retail stores, auto parts stores, and Mobil distributors. Q. CAN MOBIL 1 BE USED IN INBOARD-OUTBOARD MARINE ENGINES ? A. Yes. Mobil 1 will provide excellent service for this type of marine engine. Mobil 1 is NOT to be used in outboard engines where oil and gasoline are mixed. Q. CAN I USE MOBIL 1 IN A MAZDA ROTARY ENGINE ? A. While Mazda does not recommend synthetic engine oils in general for their rotary engines, experience and testing have shown Mobil 1 to provide superior performance in rotary engines. Check with your Mazda factory representative concerning warranty questions. Q. CAN I USE MOBIL 1 IN MY MOTORCYCLE ? A. Absolutely. Mobil 1 15W-50 exceeds motorcycle engine oil requirements for 4-stroke cycle engines. Follow your owner's manual for recommended oil and filter change frequencies. Q. CAN MOBIL 1 BE USED IN SMALL ENGINES, LIKE LAWN MOWERS, SNOW BLOWERS, AND OTHER SMALL CYLINDER ENGINES ? A. Yes, if the small engines are 4-stroke cycle engines that call for a detergent-type motor oil. These are engines that have a separate crankcase for motor oil - the motor oil is not mixed with gasoline. Q. WHAT ABOUT COLD WEATHER PERFORMANCE ? A. Mobil 1 is capable of pouring at -55 degrees F due to the nature of the synthetic base stock. Mobil 1 flows quickly to moving parts at temperatures as low as -40 F for 5W-30 and 10W-30, and -35 F for 15W-50. Low temperature performance is a major advantage of Mobil 1 vs. conventional motor oils. Q. HOW IS MOBIL 1 USED OIL HANDLED FOR DO-IT-YOURSELFERS (DIYers) ? A. Most Mobil service stations will take used oil from DIYers. Used Mobil 1 can and should be treated in the same manner as used conventional motor oil. Do not dispose of any used oil in the trash or pour it on the ground or down the sewer. Q. DO YOU HAVE WEAR RATES AND OTHER MEASURES OF PERFORMANCE FOR MOBIL 1 vs COMPETITIVE LUBRICANTS ? A. The tests normally used to measure wear and the cleanliness performance of an engine oil are called the Sequence IIIE (Three E) and VE (Five E) tests. These tests are not normally used to comparatively rate oils, but rather define minimum levels required to meet API requirements for SJ grade oils. The Sequence IIIE test is run for 64 hours in a GM 3.8 liter engine at an oil sump temperature of 300 degrees F. The test is used to measure cam and lifter wear, deposits and oil stability. The Sequence VE test uses a 2.3 liter Ford engine and is run at fairly low oil temperatures to measure sludging and cam wear performance. This test is run for 288 hours. Mobil was evaluated at four times (256 hours) the normal test length in the Sequence IIIE test and two times (576 hours) the normal length in the Sequence VE test and still met all wear, viscosity, and deposit limits levels for standard test durations. Most competitive oils (mineral and synthetic) are formulated to just meet these test limits. Also, we do not believe any conventional or synthetic oil has the oxidative stability required to survive our extended test durations. Q. HAVE WE COMPARED THE RESULTS OF 200,000 MILE ENGINE TESTING OF MOBIL WITH A CONVENTIONAL MINERAL OIL ? A. We have completed a 200,000 mile test on a premium brand of a 5W-30 mineral oil in a 2.3 liter engine similar to the Mobil 1 test, using 15,000 mile oil drains. Highlights of the results include: - Engine wear rates were lower for Mobil 1. - The mineral oil produced heavy varnish deposits, while Mobil 1 was virtually clean. - The mineral oil consumption was eight times higher than Mobil 1, which can adversely affect emission systems. The original catalyst functioned for the entire 200,000 mile test for the Mobil 1 lubricated test car, but had to be replaced at 130,000 miles for the car tested with premium mineral oil. - Fairly rapid degradation of the mineral oil was indicated during the test with viscosities increasing into the SAE 15W-40 range. This obviously would adversely affect any fuel economy performance benefits. Mobil 1 remained at the SAE 30 viscosity level throughout most of the test. Q. CAN I USE MOBIL 1 SYNTHETIC ENGINE OIL AS THE BREAK-IN OIL FOR A REBUILT ENGINE A. Yes, but time to your first oil change depends heavily on the quality of the rebuild. Today's engines are built with much tighter tolerances and much improved machining compared to the engines of 10 and 20 years ago. The old concept of "engine break-in" involved two primary elements: - Removing any metal flashing (called swarf) or abrasive material left inside the engine. - Allowing valves and rings to "seat" properly. Today's engines do not require these break-in periods. In fact, Mobil 1 has shown excellent control of oil consumption in the industry standard ASTM Sequence III E (Three E) test, which uses a completely rebuilt engine for each new test run. This includes freshly honed cylinders, new pistons, and new rings (compression and oil control). The engine is exposed to only the test oil after rebuild. The outstanding oil consumption control of Mobil 1 in this test demonstrates that the old "seating" issue is not of concern in well machined engines. And don't forget that Mobil 1 is used as initial fill on Corvette and Porsche engines. However, if the engine rebuilder is using older machining equipment or lower quality components, it can leave you with an engine containing swarf or abrasive material inside the engine. In this situation, you would be best served by using a short drain interval on your initial oil fill. Mobil 1 will still work in this situation, but it would be less expensive to use a conventional oil for this first, short duration fill. Q. I HAVE HEARD THAT MOBIL IS NOW THE INITIAL FILL ENGINE OIL FOR PORSCHE. WHAT VISCOSITY GRADE SHOULD I USE IN MINE ? A. Porsche has approved all viscosity grades of Mobil 1 for use in their vehicles. They are currently using a 5W-40 viscosity grade as initial fill. However, you can select the viscosity grade most appropriate for your vehicle based on the Porsche viscosity recommendation for your specific engine and the grades of Mobil 1 available in your area. After you review the owner's manual, we suggest the following: 0W-30 For cold climate operations. 0W-30 provides exceptional flow characteristics at low temperatures, while maintaining excellent high temperature performance. 5W-30 For most climates. 5W-30 provides excellent low temperature properties while offering excellent high temperature stability and performance. 10W-30 For most climates. 10W-30 provides excellent low temperature and high temperature performance. 15W-50 For racing or very hot engine applications. 15W-50 is designed to handled the temperature extremes experienced in racing and in very tough engine applications (heavy towing). Mobil does not currently offer a 5W-40 or a 5W-50 in the United States. Q. MOBIL 1 IS AN API CF OIL AND DELVAC 1 IS AN API SH OIL. SINCE I HAVE BOTH A GASOLINE AND DIESEL ENGINE, WHICH IS BETTER ? A. Gasoline and diesel engine oils are formulated differently, but they do have some cross-application. This is particularly useful for fleet operations that have a variety of engines. Being able to use one oil helps reduce inventory and eliminate misapplication mistakes. But we do not attempt to compare Delvac 1 to Mobil 1 since they are PRIMARILY formulated for different applications. For consumer use, we suggest that you be guided by your primary application in selecting which synthetic to use. And keep in mind that some diesel engine oils now call for CE, CF-4, and CG-4 - which requires the use of Mobil Delvac 1. Updated: 04/25/1997 Bill Pratt, Bellevue, WA "No matter where you go...there you are"! billp117@XXXXXX http://www.isomedia.com/homes/billp117 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 22:05:32 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA17112; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 22:05:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA16212; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 22:04:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emout09.mail.aol.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA02131; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 22:04:38 -0400 (EDT) From: KLThomas77@XXXXXX Received: (from root@localhost) by emout09.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id WAA15434 for dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 22:04:07 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 22:04:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970724220316_-290679244@emout09.mail.aol.com> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: 1st racebike-VF500? 600R? or? Hey, y'all- I want to take some racing schools, and once I've done that, maybe race a bit. I don't want to use my 87 VFR for a schooI. I have no illusions about my ability. I'll be finishing last, no matter what I'm riding. I'm interested in something cheap and ratty that I don't have to worry about crashing. I have sold my wrecked 92 VFR (awaiting the check), and part of the deal could include a good-working, tired looking, stock, street-ready VF500. I don't know what year. The price is around $1000. I know a guy who had a Ninja 600R for sale, fairly thrashed, wrecked (mostly cosmetic damage) for $800 firm. He may still have it. Are either of these reasonably priced? Are they potentially suitable for my task? Of course, if I don't scare the s--t out of myself, I might like to have a bike that could finish somewhere better than last, but I'm not willing to spend extra money to get that bike now. If one of those bikes (or some thrasher one of you may have in the yard) is better than the other, I'd like to know about it. OTOH, what would it cost to rent a slow racer? Any volunteers? How do those arrangements work? One concern I have is if I wreck somebody elses bike, the money I spend to fix it (I assume I'm liable for damages) could have bought me my own bike to wreck. At least I'd get to keep it after the wreck.... Any input will be appreciated. Thanks Kevin From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 09:11:39 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA25641; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 09:11:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA21863; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 09:10:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jeb.s3i.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA25977; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 09:10:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cox.s3i.com by jeb.s3i.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA17534; Fri, 25 Jul 97 09:10:23 EDT Received: from localhost by cox.s3i.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA15810; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 09:10:16 -0400 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 09:10:15 -0400 (EDT) From: "Clark E. Dorman" X-Sender: dorman@cox To: Todd B Peer Cc: dc-cycles Subject: Re: Mobil Oil FAQ In-Reply-To: <19970724191226.AAA16485@localHost> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 24 Jul 1997, Todd B Peer wrote: > This FAQ was copied from the Mobil Webpage > > http://www.mobil.com/consumer/mobil1/mobil1/mobil1faq.html This just _might_ be a little biased, eh? > Hope this is helpful to the group...Yes Martha, you can use it in > Motorcycles. [snip] > Q. CAN I USE MOBIL 1 IN MY MOTORCYCLE ? > > A. Absolutely. Mobil 1 15W-50 exceeds motorcycle engine oil requirements > for 4-stroke cycle engines. Follow your owner's manual for recommended oil > and filter change frequencies. Well, this kind of misses the point that lots of people have made. Note that it says "motorcycle engine oil requirements". I don't doubt that. However, those of us with a wet clutch still have serious concerns about what synthetic oils are going to do to us. I notice that there is a complete absence of comment about that particular concern. Does anyone have some experience with using a synthetic with a wet clutch? -- Clark 1983 Yamaha XS-650 1977 BMW R75/7 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 09:37:54 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA25810; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 09:37:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA22067; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 09:37:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dadc012.army.mil by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA27065; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 09:37:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by dadc012.army.mil with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) id <01BC98DE.529269E0@XXXXXX>; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 09:37:09 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Dysart, Glenn B., Mr., IMCEN" To: "'DC Cycles'" Subject: RE: Mobil Oil FAQ Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 09:37:08 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 Encoding: 27 TEXT I do. I have been using Mobil 1 in my Magna for 20,000 miles with no slippage. Excellent choice IMHO. I performed a valve adjustment on my bike several thousand miles ago and couldn't believe how clean the inside of the engine was. Lets see dino oil do that. BTW I had a buddy use Militec (http://www.apdinc.com/Milstart.htm) in his bike and the clutch slipped like hell. He ended up calling the person who invented the stuff for the Navy and the guy laughed at first. He informed my friend to keep flushing the engine with clean oil since the stuff has some kind of chemical reaction with the metal. Eventually the problem went away (after many changes). Glenn Dysart DysarGB@XXXXXX 84 V30 Magna ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------- >>Well, this kind of misses the point that lots of people have made. Note >>that it says "motorcycle engine oil requirements". I don't doubt that. >>However, those of us with a wet clutch still have serious concerns about >>what synthetic oils are going to do to us. I notice that there is a >>complete absence of comment about that particular concern. Does anyone >>have some experience with using a synthetic with a wet clutch? > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 10:02:00 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA26033; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 10:02:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA22406; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 10:01:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA28026; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 10:01:50 -0400 (EDT) From: tjoseph@XXXXXX Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA08494 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 09:01:18 -0500 (CDT) Received: from unknown(199.128.76.102) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma007624; Fri Jul 25 08:59:29 1997 Message-ID: <33D8B11B.6D1E@ix.netcom.com> Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 09:58:51 -0400 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dc-cycles Subject: Synthetic Oil/Wet Clutches References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think this has been hashed out before, but I'll put forth my rememberances and personal knowledge. Feel free to "DELETE" now if you've heard enough about synthetic oil v. conventional oil, etc. I've been using Mobil 1 in my bikes for YEARS. Started back in 1978 (I think), using it mostly in very hard-driven bikes. Now I use it in everything. Never had a clutch problem or gasket seepage problem from its use. I've used it in mostly Japanese bikes, but also in an old Triumph (1972 Daytona), in the engine, transmission, and final drive (not Mobil 1, but Mobil Synthetic Transmission Oil), and even - in a clutch (no pun intended) - used it mixed w/ gasoline for a 2-stroke MX bike. No clutch problems at all. Keep in mind that Synthetic Oil is still petroleum based; it's engineered for consistent molecular/polymer size, rather than randomly refined for fluidity. I personally like it because I frequently end up idling for LONG periods in a parking-lot mess on a stalled I-395 in July or August. Conventional oil sometimes thinned down so much I actually had the engine heat-seize in my 1983 Honda CB650SC Nighthawk. It started again after a LONG cool-down, but that convinced me to use Mobil 1 all the time in all the bikes. Never had that problem again. I've heard others claim they got clutch slippage from it, but I've never experienced that. My guess is that it was a coincidence; they swapped to Mobil 1 and, coincidentally, their clutch was close to being worn out anyway. The oil got the blame. It's not really that synthetics are inherently a lot more slippery than conventional oil (despite Mobil's earlier claims to give better gas mileage through reduced friction), it's that synthetics retain their viscocity spread for much longer periods in more demanding environments and don't have viscocity-enhancement breakdown which leaves deposits in the engine. If you'd feel better, try mixing it. If your bike uses 4 quarts, try 2 and 2, or 3 conventional/1 synthetic. Costs less, but in my experience it'll still give you some additional protection when it's 105 degrees outside. Finally, there's been concern that new oils lack zinc, which serves to provide more protection in high-shear or pressure environments where metal is transferring energy, not just sliding (like gear boxes as opposed to bearings/rings which need boundary layer). Well, I can't speak for anybody but myself, but in 25 years of riding I've never worn out a transmission gear. That steel is pretty well surface hardened, and maybe I've worn 'em enough to get some whine, but never have I worn one out. I have, however, worn out rings, main bearings, chains, cams, and other things. So if the new oils reduce zinc, I'm not that concerned. I'll stick w/ automobile oils as opposed to motorcycle-only oils, and specifically Mobil 1 (no, I'm not being paid by Mobil). Granted, my experience is nothing more than anecdotal evidence. But I guarantee once you've had a bike completely seize on I-395 in rush hour, and you've cooled your heels (if that's possible in July heat) for an hour waiting for the engine to unlock, anything (even prayer) that makes the problem go away will be used again and again. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Clark E. Dorman wrote: > (SNIP) > Well, this kind of misses the point that lots of people have made. Note > that it says "motorcycle engine oil requirements". I don't doubt that. > However, those of us with a wet clutch still have serious concerns about > what synthetic oils are going to do to us. I notice that there is a > complete absence of comment about that particular concern. Does anyone > have some experience with using a synthetic with a wet clutch? > > -- > Clark > 1983 Yamaha XS-650 > 1977 BMW R75/7 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 10:03:53 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA26052; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 10:03:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA22417; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 10:03:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from beta.mcit.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA28060; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 10:03:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ndcrelay.mcit.com (ndcrelay.mcit.com [166.37.172.49]) by beta.mcit.com (8.8.6/) with ESMTP id JAA09771 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 09:03:15 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pop1a.mail.mci.com (pop1a.mail.mci.com [166.37.204.5]) by ndcrelay.mcit.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id KAA05272 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 10:03:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localHost ([166.41.242.141]) by pop1a.mail.mci.com (Post.Office MTA v3.0 release "turbo_2" ID# 1-123U25000L1S10) with SMTP id AAA25764 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 09:03:12 -0500 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 09:59 -0400 (EDT) From: "Todd B Peer" To: dc-cycles Subject: Re: Mobil Oil FAQ X-Mailer: MailRoom v2.1e Message-ID: <19970725140312.AAA25764@localHost> On Fri, 25 Jul 1997 09:10:15 -0400 (EDT) Clark Dorman responded: >On Thu, 24 Jul 1997, Todd B Peer wrote: >> This FAQ was copied from the Mobil Webpage >> >> http://www.mobil.com/consumer/mobil1/mobil1/mobil1faq.html > >This just _might_ be a little biased, eh? Yeah, it might be. I have read three separate studies about Mobile 1, all which indicate that it is a superior product. This was only FYI if you were interested. >[snip] >> Q. CAN I USE MOBIL 1 IN MY MOTORCYCLE ? >> >> A. Absolutely. Mobil 1 15W-50 exceeds motorcycle engine oil requirements >> for 4-stroke cycle engines. Follow your owner's manual for recommended oil >> and filter change frequencies. >Well, this kind of misses the point that lots of people have made. Note >that it says "motorcycle engine oil requirements". I don't doubt that. >However, those of us with a wet clutch still have serious concerns about >what synthetic oils are going to do to us. I notice that there is a >complete absence of comment about that particular concern. Does anyone >have some experience with using a synthetic with a wet clutch? >-- >Clark >1983 Yamaha XS-650 >1977 BMW R75/7 I have been using Mobil 1 in motorcycles with a wet clutch since 1987 (VT500c, CB750, ST1100), with problems - none. The only time I might be concerned about the oil I use (motor and clutch) if I were racing. But I'm not convinced it would'nt be Mobil 1. BTW, the bikes you list in your sig are in no way in danger from Mobil 1. In fact with a regular change they'll probably last a lot longer than you expect. Todd From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 10:36:25 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA26302; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 10:36:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA23251; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 10:36:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emout05.mail.aol.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA29417; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 10:36:11 -0400 (EDT) From: KLThomas77@XXXXXX Received: (from root@localhost) by emout05.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id KAA14188 for dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 10:35:40 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 10:35:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970725103518_28169996@emout05.mail.aol.com> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: oils I have always used synthetic oil in my motorcycles. I can't speak from 100000 miles of experience, but my 73 CB750 had synthetic from new. The original clutch slipped slightly on full throttle powershifts at 33000 miles, but those clutches weren't worth a darn anyway, and it didn't even have the stiffer springs that are a must. (You're supposed to use 350 twin valvesprings in the 750 clutch!) My 87 VFR has had synthetic since almost new, and no problems at 27000 miles. My 92 VFR had synthetic from at least 18000 miles to now, at 30000, again with no problems. Mobil is one of the best oil companies, IMHO, and if their stuff messed up our clutches, they'd tell us. I don't have such a high opinion of motorcycle oil makers, nor oil additive makers. Finally, if that old wives' tale was true, you'd hear from 10 times as many people who have had clutch trouble as those who haven't. I'd be surprised if anybody has personal experience with clutch trouble. It's always "I heard this is true...." Later Kevin From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 10:42:40 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA26366; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 10:42:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA23465; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 10:42:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from alumni.umbc.edu by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA29701; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 10:42:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from pverst1@localhost) by alumni.umbc.edu (8.8.5/Alumni) id KAA01340 for dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 10:44:14 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 10:44:14 -0400 (EDT) From: The Flying Dutchman Message-Id: <199707251444.KAA01340@alumni.umbc.edu> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Mobil Oil FAQ "Clark E. Dorman" said: [...] * [snip] * > Q. CAN I USE MOBIL 1 IN MY MOTORCYCLE ? * > * > A. Absolutely. Mobil 1 15W-50 exceeds motorcycle engine oil requirements * > for 4-stroke cycle engines. Follow your owner's manual for recommended oil * > and filter change frequencies. * * Well, this kind of misses the point that lots of people have made. Note * that it says "motorcycle engine oil requirements". I don't doubt that. * However, those of us with a wet clutch still have serious concerns about * what synthetic oils are going to do to us. I notice that there is a * complete absence of comment about that particular concern. Does anyone * have some experience with using a synthetic with a wet clutch? * It works. My 80 CB650 has nearly 20k miles on it, more than 3/4 of which have been [mine] using Mobil-1 15w50. Only now is the clutch starting to slip, a testament not to the oil, but to the bike's age. Mineral motor oils are as antiquated as the vegetarian-dinosaur-food that originally produces them. Even with older bikes, use a modern oil. L8r, P8r. pverst1@XXXXXX =;) "Tao k'o Tao fei ch'ang Tao (Tao called Tao is not Tao)" - Lao-tzu From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 11:39:11 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA26939; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 11:39:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA25221; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 11:38:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from quackerjack.cc.vt.edu by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA02440; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 11:38:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sable.cc.vt.edu (sable.cc.vt.edu [128.173.16.30]) by quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA02003 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 11:38:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lancelot.campus.vt.edu (dam-as5s22.erols.com [207.172.138.22]) by sable.cc.vt.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA28110 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 11:38:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970725113536.0068a90c@mail.vt.edu> X-Sender: mrubinst@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 11:35:36 +0600 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mitch Subject: Re: Synthetic Oil/Wet Clutches In-Reply-To: <33D8B11B.6D1E@ix.netcom.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" So what exactly does the synthetic mean? I would think that it's an artificial oil. But if it is still petroleum based, then it still comes from the crude oil that we drill out of the ground? I guess the question is, can tree-huggers use synthetic oil and feel good about it? Mitch At 09:58 AM 7/25/97 -0400, you wrote: >I think this has been hashed out before, but I'll put forth my >rememberances and personal knowledge. Feel free to "DELETE" now if >you've heard enough about synthetic oil v. conventional oil, etc. > > I've been using Mobil 1 in my bikes for YEARS. Started back in 1978 (I >think), using it mostly in very hard-driven bikes. Now I use it in >everything. Never had a clutch problem or gasket seepage problem from >its use. I've used it in mostly Japanese bikes, but also in an old >Triumph (1972 Daytona), in the engine, transmission, and final drive >(not Mobil 1, but Mobil Synthetic Transmission Oil), and even - in a >clutch (no pun intended) - used it mixed w/ gasoline for a 2-stroke MX >bike. No clutch problems at all. Keep in mind that Synthetic Oil is >still petroleum based; it's engineered for consistent molecular/polymer >size, rather than randomly refined for fluidity. > > I personally like it because I frequently end up idling for LONG >periods in a parking-lot mess on a stalled I-395 in July or August. >Conventional oil sometimes thinned down so much I actually had the >engine heat-seize in my 1983 Honda CB650SC Nighthawk. It started again >after a LONG cool-down, but that convinced me to use Mobil 1 all the >time in all the bikes. Never had that problem again. > > I've heard others claim they got clutch slippage from it, but I've >never experienced that. My guess is that it was a coincidence; they >swapped to Mobil 1 and, coincidentally, their clutch was close to being >worn out anyway. The oil got the blame. It's not really that >synthetics are inherently a lot more slippery than conventional oil >(despite Mobil's earlier claims to give better gas mileage through >reduced friction), it's that synthetics retain their viscocity spread >for much longer periods in more demanding environments and don't have >viscocity-enhancement breakdown which leaves deposits in the engine. > > If you'd feel better, try mixing it. If your bike uses 4 quarts, try 2 >and 2, or 3 conventional/1 synthetic. Costs less, but in my experience >it'll still give you some additional protection when it's 105 degrees >outside. > > Finally, there's been concern that new oils lack zinc, which serves to >provide more protection in high-shear or pressure environments where >metal is transferring energy, not just sliding (like gear boxes as >opposed to bearings/rings which need boundary layer). Well, I can't >speak for anybody but myself, but in 25 years of riding I've never worn >out a transmission gear. That steel is pretty well surface hardened, >and maybe I've worn 'em enough to get some whine, but never have I worn >one out. I have, however, worn out rings, main bearings, chains, cams, >and other things. So if the new oils reduce zinc, I'm not that >concerned. I'll stick w/ automobile oils as opposed to motorcycle-only >oils, and specifically Mobil 1 (no, I'm not being paid by Mobil). > > Granted, my experience is nothing more than anecdotal evidence. But I >guarantee once you've had a bike completely seize on I-395 in rush hour, >and you've cooled your heels (if that's possible in July heat) for an >hour waiting for the engine to unlock, anything (even prayer) that makes >the problem go away will be used again and again. > >+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > >Clark E. Dorman wrote: >> >(SNIP) > >> Well, this kind of misses the point that lots of people have made. Note >> that it says "motorcycle engine oil requirements". I don't doubt that. >> However, those of us with a wet clutch still have serious concerns about >> what synthetic oils are going to do to us. I notice that there is a >> complete absence of comment about that particular concern. Does anyone >> have some experience with using a synthetic with a wet clutch? >> >> -- >> Clark >> 1983 Yamaha XS-650 >> 1977 BMW R75/7 > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 12:59:52 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA27904; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 12:59:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA27442; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 12:59:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emout03.mail.aol.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA06660; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 12:59:38 -0400 (EDT) From: KLThomas77@XXXXXX Received: (from root@localhost) by emout03.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id MAA19417 for dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 12:59:06 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 12:59:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970725125803_-691435891@emout03.mail.aol.com> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: more on oil By the way, I saw somewhere some info on the "no zinc" problem, where the new oils don't have zinc for emissions reasons. This missing ingredient concerns some people. maybe it was in Kevin Cameron's column. Basically, the deal is that when your oil is very old and worn out (much older than any of us would leave in the bikes) and gets real hot (hotter than what we would normally allow) and basically vaporizes, then the zinc does its job. Before this, it doesn't do anything. So I'm not worried. The Mobil 1 in my 87 VFR has 2500 miles on it right now, and I'm dying to change it. It's been driving me nuts for weeks to have such old oil. I'll finally change it this weekend. And I have some Silkolene motorcycle synthetic that my friend gave me, but I won't use it in the VFR. I won't even use it in my car. Maybe I'll put it in my sister's raggedy old car. Motorcycle oil---ick. See ya Kevin From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 14:44:17 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA01579; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 14:44:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA29356; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 14:43:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from alpha.mcit.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA14944; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 14:43:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ndcrelay.mcit.com (ndcrelay.mcit.com [166.37.172.49]) by alpha.mcit.com (8.8.6/) with ESMTP id OAA22377 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 14:43:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pop1a.mail.mci.com (pop1a.mail.mci.com [166.37.204.5]) by ndcrelay.mcit.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id OAA31247 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 14:43:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localHost ([166.41.242.141]) by pop1a.mail.mci.com (Post.Office MTA v3.0 release "turbo_2" ID# 1-123U25000L1S10) with SMTP id AAA29309 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 13:42:39 -0500 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 14:39 -0400 (EDT) From: "Todd B Peer" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: more on oil X-Mailer: MailRoom v2.1e Message-ID: <19970725184239.AAA29309@localHost> On Fri, 25 Jul 1997 12:59:06 -0400 (EDT) Kevin wrote: >By the way, I saw somewhere some info on the "no zinc" problem, where the new >oils don't have zinc for emissions reasons. True. It tends to burn out and make the catalytic converter less useful than it would be with the zinc. >This missing ingredient concerns >some people. maybe it was in Kevin Cameron's column. Basically, the deal is >that when your oil is very old and worn out (much older than any of us would >leave in the bikes) and gets real hot (hotter than what we would normally >allow) and basically vaporizes, then the zinc does its job. Before this, it >doesn't do anything. So I'm not worried. True again in the scenario you describe. However, what concerns most motorcyclists in this vein is the high revolution and speed at which moving metal parts need that little sheen of slippery stuff to prevent seizure. The zinc would come into play when shearing (a step in breakdown) of the oil occurs. At that point, a little zinc just might be nice. Again, like I said before this is no a big deal unless you are racing engines to their limits for extended periods of time. It just won't come to this for street riding scenarios, even for those of us that have a seemingly uncontrolled wrist twitch. >The Mobil 1 in my 87 VFR has 2500 >miles on it right now, and I'm dying to change it. It's been driving me nuts >for weeks to have such old oil. A mechanic I used to work with (I sold Kawasakis at one time) used to let me use some of his shop space now and then. Two things he advised me to do that I have always remembered were; 1) if it doesn't fit, or come off as it should cuss louder and longer until it does and, 2) change your bike oil every 2-3000 miles to prevent internal damage. Todd From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 16:31:51 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA03842; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 16:31:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA03572; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 16:31:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from micros-bh.micros.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA20723; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 16:31:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by micros-bh.micros.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) id QAA04101 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 16:30:20 -0400 Received: from micros.micros.com by micros-bh.micros.com via smap (3.2) id xma004092; Fri, 25 Jul 97 16:30:16 -0400 Received: from smtplink.micros.com (smtplink.micros.com [206.241.52.10]) by micros.micros.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/micros-2.1) with SMTP id QAA04690 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 16:30:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccMail by smtplink.micros.com (ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.00) id AA869862513; Fri, 25 Jul 97 16:28:40 -0500 Message-Id: <9707258698.AA869862513@smtplink.micros.com> X-Mailer: ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.00 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 97 16:26:33 -0500 From: "Brian McCoy" To: Subject: ARGH.. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Someone... CALL ME with a short ride tomorrow... something we can finish by 6pm tomorrow... have a BBQ then.. but I NEED TO RIDE (it's bee a month since a good, long ride.. give me something to wet my whistle). call 301-409-5911 ANYTIME (just a pager with v-mail). Collin? Glenn? Anyone??? Any kind of ride... absolutly anything (yes I'm going home from work.... finally.. and I need a stress reducing weekend. HELP ME!!! PLEASE!! Brian vf500f From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 16:35:41 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA04011; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 16:35:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA03602; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 16:35:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emout18.mail.aol.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA21082; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 16:35:29 -0400 (EDT) From: AntietamMC@XXXXXX Received: (from root@localhost) by emout18.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id QAA28732 for dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 16:34:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 16:34:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970725163315_176983976@emout18.mail.aol.com> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: TEST & TUNE 1/4 MILE In a message dated 97-07-22 18:11:47 EDT, you write: > To be honest I don't know where the track is located because > I've never been there. I've heard it's nice though, and it's one > of the only 1/4 mile tracks around MD/VA/DC metro area that > has a "test & tune" day scheduled for anytime in the near future. > > The phone # to the track is 301-416-7700. I'm going to give them > a call and try and get some more information. I will post when I > find out the specifics. > > > Yea, I might be interested. Where is this track? Is it at the MD/PA > > border as the term "Mason-Dixon" would indicate? > > > >There's going to be an all-day test & tune at Mason Dixon Sat Aug. 2nd. > > >It's $15.00 for all day runs 12noon-5pm time trials only. How about > then?? The track is located just east of Hagerstown Maryland. Easy to find and just 70 miles from the Capitol Beltway. Quick way: Follow I-270 north to Frederick Take I-70 West to MD-66 Exit at the end of the ramp, turn left (MD-66 South) At the traffic light, turn left. Track will be about a 1/4 mile on your left. -- Jeff From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 19:10:02 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id TAA06243; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 19:10:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id TAA05965; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 19:09:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emout06.mail.aol.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id TAA27238; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 19:09:47 -0400 (EDT) From: KLThomas77@XXXXXX Received: (from root@localhost) by emout06.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id TAA05264 for dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 19:09:17 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 19:09:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970725190916_-1274828878@emout06.mail.aol.com> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: cycle accessory discounters Hey, y'all- I need to tell you about a problem I've had with CAD. They're good guys generally, and have good prices, but this time they've let me down in a big way. There are 2 consequences to that. One is they don't get any more of my money (~$500 in the last 3-4 months). The other is that I tell everybody I know. I also tell everybody I know when somebody does take good care of me, as many of you may know. That's Cycle Accessory Discounters in Gaithersburg MD. BTW, I want to congratulate Dave Yaakov, the shop owner, on setting the lap record at the Point last weekend. 1:17:34, I think. He set it once and broke it again, I'm told, on his YZF750/1000. Or FZR, I forget. Anyway, I called there and told the guy on the phone I wanted whichever was the sportier of the ME55 or ME99 Metzeler rear tire. Metzeler calls them both sport tourers, but they don't really make it clear which is sportier. So the guy says I need the 99. I gave him my credit card and told him to get one. I got the tire on, rode it a week, during which time I noticed the 55 on some sportbikes and the 99 on my friend's Harley. Obviously I had the wrong tire. I went in and asked Dave to make it right. I expected him to take back the wrong tire and give me the right one. The best he would do is sell me the 55 at his cost and mount and balance it for free if I took the wheel off. I just got back from there with my new ME55, which cost me $114 plus $17 to R&R the wheel. That tire price is $5 over whatever mailorder store I happened to look at in a magazine. I posted my ME99 for sale on this list and the VFR list 10 days ago. With perfect timing, I recieved one response, which arrived today. So if this person gives me the $75 I'm asking for the tire, then I only lose about $70 on the deal. As far as I'm concerned, I got hosed. I get good treatment at Battley, Cycles USA, Freestate, and Cycle Accessories in College Park, so now there's one less shop to spend my money at. YMMV Kevin From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 19:15:14 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id TAA06271; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 19:15:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id TAA06025; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 19:15:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emout18.mail.aol.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id TAA27536; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 19:15:07 -0400 (EDT) From: KLThomas77@XXXXXX Received: (from root@localhost) by emout18.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id TAA12452 for dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 19:14:36 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 19:14:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970725191435_95334196@emout18.mail.aol.com> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: 75-80 Dragway Test and Tune tonite Hey, y'all- My friend just called to say the weather is nice in Frederick and some guys are going to the track. I expect I'll go up and see exactly how much slower I am than Pee Wee Gleason. Anybody up for it? Take 270 N to 75, take 75 until just before 80. You can't miss it. Was $10 to get in last time I went. If you want to get together, call me at 301-424-5319. It's 7:15 pm now.(Friday) I expect we'll get going within the hour. Later Kevin From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 20:01:15 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id UAA06455; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 20:01:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id UAA06297; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 20:00:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skippy.umiacs.umd.edu by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id UAA28865; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 20:00:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from server2.illuminet.net by skippy.umiacs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id UAA06424; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 20:00:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mrider.illuminet.net (dialup20.illuminet.net [205.215.55.20]) by server2.illuminet.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA21454; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 20:32:26 -0400 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970725200123.00672738@illuminet.net> X-Sender: mrider@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 20:01:23 +0000 To: "Clark E. Dorman" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Leon Begeman Subject: Re: Mobil Oil FAQ At 09:10 25-07-97 -0400, you wrote: >This just _might_ be a little biased, eh? >> Q. CAN I USE MOBIL 1 IN MY MOTORCYCLE ? >> A. Absolutely. >Well, this kind of misses the point that lots of people have made. > Does anyone >have some experience with using a synthetic with a wet clutch? > Yes, I do. I have two engines with over 80,000 miles. The first is an '83 Honda CX650 that I got with about 6000 miles on it. I used Castrol 10W40 and 20W50 in it from when I got it until I replaced it at about 90,000 miles. At 65,000 miles, the the cam chain got loose and broke the tensioner. I replaced both the chain and tensioner. At 90,000 miles it was using 1 quart of oil every 300 to 500 miles. The exhaust pipe was filthy but the plugs were clean, therefore I concluded that the valve guides are shot. The clutch works fine. The second motor is an '83 Honda GL650 that I got with about 14,000 miles on it. I used Mobil 1 15W50 except in a few winters when I used Mobil 10W30. I did a couple of the first oil changes with Golden Spectro, but that was way too expensive (replacing the motor would be cheaper than using Golden Spectro). It currently has 105,000 miles on it. The original cam chain is still in it. It uses oil if I ride faster than 75, but doesn't use a noticeable amount at lower speeds. It has a false neutral between 4th and 5th that is slightly worse than the CX650, but isn't serious. It also has the original clutch in it. I've been using Mobil 1 in the replacement CX650 motor and in the Ninja 250 I got to supplement the two of them. I change oil every 3000 miles or so (Last year I took an 8500 mile trip and didn't change oil until I got home). I ride year around, and usually put at least 300 miles per week on the bike. (I only rode 100 miles the week of the great blizzard of '96) I am concerned about the changes that Mobil made to meet the new SJ requirements, does anyone know if that has an adverse affect on using Mobil 1 in a bike? Leon Begeman (703) 590-9073 13391 Packard Dr., Dale City, VA 22193 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 20:56:51 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id UAA06632; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 20:56:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id UAA06585; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 20:56:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skippy.umiacs.umd.edu by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id UAA00695; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 20:56:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bos1h.delphi.com by skippy.umiacs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id UAA21380; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 20:56:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [38.30.81.77] ("port 2062"@[38.30.81.77]) by delphi.com (PMDF V5.1-8 #23839) with SMTP id <01ILO1EN7DOG9OCZJR@XXXXXX> for dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 20:56:38 EDT Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 20:56:29 -0400 From: George Howell Subject: Year Round Riding To: Leon Begeman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Message-id: <01ILO1ENMX3M9OCZJR@delphi.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >I ride year around, and usually put at least 300 miles per week on the bike. >(I only rode 100 miles the week of the great blizzard of '96) For us newbies, how does one go about accomplishing such weather-defying feats? And if you have any idea for mounting a snowboard on a motorcycle (to carry to resorts;), I'm all ears:) Actually saw some guy with a special backpack doing that in Killington VT this year. Course, it was May... -George From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 21:06:06 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id VAA06752; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 21:06:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id VAA06668; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 21:06:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bos1e.delphi.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id VAA01139; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 21:05:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [38.30.81.77] ("port 2064"@[38.30.81.77]) by delphi.com (PMDF V5.1-8 #23839) with SMTP id <01ILO1Q6R2409QUY5S@XXXXXX> for dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 21:05:58 EDT Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 21:05:49 -0400 From: George Howell Subject: Re: oils To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Message-id: <01ILO1Q85YOY9QUY5S@delphi.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" While on the subject of synthetic oils, has anybody noticed any improved (or worsened) shift action with the synthetic oils. Back when I was interested in cars (Hot Rod subscriber for 11 of my 24 years;) they all claimed improvements with synthetic tranny lubes. ``` (o o) *------------oooO----(_)-------------------* |..George Howell..georgehowell@XXXXXX..| | http://people.delphi.com/~georgehowell | *--------------------------oooO------------* |__||__| || || ooO Ooo From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 22:35:38 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA07189; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 22:35:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA07049; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 22:35:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from alpha.mcit.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA04408; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 22:35:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from omzrelay.mcit.com (omzrelay.mcit.com [166.37.204.49]) by alpha.mcit.com (8.8.6/) with ESMTP id WAA05395 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 22:34:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pop1a.mail.mci.com (pop1a.mail.mci.com [166.37.204.5]) by omzrelay.mcit.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id VAA32255 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 21:34:34 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localHost ([166.41.111.17]) by pop1a.mail.mci.com (Post.Office MTA v3.0 release "turbo_2" ID# 1-123U25000L1S10) with SMTP id AAA6616 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 21:34:33 -0500 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 22:31 -0400 (EDT) From: "Todd B Peer" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: cycle accessory discounters X-Mailer: MailRoom v2.1e Message-ID: <19970726023432.AAA6616@localHost> On Fri, 25 Jul 1997 19:09:17 -0400 (EDT) Kevin Wrote: >I need to tell you about a problem I've had with CAD. They're good guys >generally, and have good prices, but this time they've let me down in a big >way. Snip > I called there and told the guy on the phone I wanted whichever was >the sportier of the ME55 or ME99 Metzeler rear tire. Metzeler calls them >both sport tourers, but they don't really make it clear which is sportier. > So the guy says I need the 99. I gave him my credit card and told him to >get one. I got the tire on, rode it a week, during which time I noticed the >55 on some sportbikes and the 99 on my friend's Harley. Obviously I had the >wrong tire. >I went in and asked Dave to make it right. I expected him to take back the >wrong tire and give me the right one. The best he would do is sell me the 55 >at his cost and mount and balance it for free if I took the wheel off. I >just got back from there with my new ME55, which cost me $114 plus $17 to R&R >the wheel. That tire price is $5 over whatever mailorder store I happened to >look at in a magazine. Sorry Kevin, but from what I'm reading (and thank you for being honest) your both in the wrong. I've never dealt with CAD, but even so the decision to buy the tire you did was yours. CAD and its' representatives should not be taking decisions as to which tire fits your (customers) needs so frivolously. However, they do need to sell. But is it fair to 'take back' a used tire? Next time, if you ask for their opinion, weigh it and research for yourself. You may end up buying something entirely different than you thought was appropriate, eh?. Todd From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 23:07:15 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id XAA07378; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 23:07:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id XAA07255; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 23:07:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp3.erols.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id XAA05455; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 23:07:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bryndyn (spg-as69s36.erols.com [207.172.42.99]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA22667 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 23:07:03 -0400 Message-ID: <33D98DA7.3104@erols.com> Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 22:39:51 -0700 From: Bryndyn Weiner X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01KIT (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: cycle accessory discounters References: <970725190916_-1274828878@emout06.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit KLThomas77@XXXXXX wrote: > Anyway, I called there and told the guy on the phone I wanted whichever was > the sportier of the ME55 or ME99 Metzeler rear tire. Metzeler calls them > both sport tourers, but they don't really make it clear which is sportier. > So the guy says I need the 99. I gave him my credit card and told him to > get one. I got the tire on, rode it a week, during which time I noticed the > 55 on some sportbikes and the 99 on my friend's Harley. Obviously I had the > wrong tire. > > As far as I'm concerned, I got hosed. I looked up these two tires in the Dennis Kirk catalog and the Metzler catalog. They are very similar in performance with the 99 having the advantage in tread life. The 99 racing compound tire is apparantly popular on race HDs. Sounds like you gave the guy a rather subjective description for what you wanted and you deferred to his judgement. Your also basing your judgement of "sportier" on what is on other people's bikes. Not always safe. How many people out there tell the service guy, "Just put the sportiest tire you have on it." So the mechanic puts on a $250 race compound tire that lasts for 1000 miles. The ignorant squid goes back and says, "Man this piece of *@#& tire only last two months." He got what he asked for. The guy probably figured because you ride one of the classic sport-touring machines (VFR750) that you would surely want the tire more appropriate for sport-touring which is the 99. Maybe he is aware of some incompatibility the 55 has with your bike. Sorry, I don't have a lot of sympathy for you. Do your homework first. Your trusted that his judgement would also be your judgement. That's your problem not his. I'm surprised he gave you the deal he did. Sorry to sound so brutal but I hate to see someone's business hurt by a non-black/white issue such as you have described. I have had good experiences with them. Awaiting replies with fire extinguishers at the ready. Bryndyn Weiner email: rzbean@XXXXXX "It only takes two-strokes to get me excited." RZ350, CB-1 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jul 26 00:18:05 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id AAA08167; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 00:18:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id AAA08155; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 00:17:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emout02.mail.aol.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id AAA07749; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 00:17:33 -0400 (EDT) From: KLThomas77@XXXXXX Received: (from root@localhost) by emout02.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id AAA23230 for dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 00:16:58 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 00:16:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970726001655_-525230183@emout02.mail.aol.com> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: CAD Hey, y'all- I still haven't "done my homework" on this tire issue. The fact is, when I went back to see if I had the right tire, I explained to Dave what had happened and he said the 55 was the right tire for me. It was the stickier of the two. I pay these guys to know what's up. If I knew everything, or had time to find it out, I'd own a cycle shop. If Dave had said the 99 was just as good, I'd have said "OK" and that'd be the end of it. I specifically didn't want some race compound gumball on it. That's what I was taking off, (ME1 CompK) and I wanted more than 3000 miles out of the tire. The fact is, Dave's parts men were in elementary school when I started riding, they were still in elementary shhool when my bike was built, and they have probably never ridden a bike with bias ply tires. They didn't know the product and they blew it. If they'd said "I don't know", and taken a few minutes to find out, we wouldn't have this problem. If I had wondered which tire I should use, out of _all_ tires made, like some folks say "What's the best tire?", then I could see that I'm in the wrong. Nobody can be expected to answer a question like that for somebody elses' needs. What I asked was which of these _two_ tires is _stickiest_? They should have gotten it right. And, no, a used tire is not saleable as new, and that's unfortunate for him, but his employee made a statement of fact, and was wrong. Dave freely admitted he was wrong. Dave would have an easier time selling that used tire than I would, and if he had done right by me, I'd be telling you all what a great shop he has. In fact, I did that not long ago. If he had to eat $75 off the deal, how long do you think it'd take to make that back off me? I don't carry my Dennis Kirk catalog around and hassle guys on price. I have 2 motorcycles, one of which is totalled and needs lots of money spent on it. I want to go racing. More money for Dave. I'm buying leathers. The fact is, he doesn't sell Vanson, and that's what I want, but I called him first when I was looking for where to get them. I bought a $225 Goretex rainsuit from him. I don't mess around. He could have made that $75 back off me in a day. Instead, this is what he gets. I feel bad about it too. He's a nice guy, and he has good prices, like I said. But there's plenty of other nice guys around here selling motorcycle parts, and none of them has caused me any problems. Not that I usually want to return things. And if one of the other shops screws me on a return some day, I'll tell you about it. I'm not saying Dave is a crook or that he has a bad shop. I'm saying that he made a bad business decision. His decision had unpleasant consequences for me, and this is my response. That's it. No hard feelings on my part. I've done my part as a consumer, and I will consume elsewhere. I'm not even saying I think you shouldn't shop there. I'm just telling you what happened to me. I may end up paying more for my parts because I don't shop at CAD. OTOH, it'd be worth paying a bit more to shop somewhere that will take back their mistakes. I've just paid $134 extra for my tire because I shopped at CAD. Yeah, I still have the ME99, but it's only worth something if somebody wants it. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Kevin From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jul 26 01:34:01 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id BAA08564; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 01:34:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id BAA08548; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 01:33:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cap1.CapAccess.org by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id BAA08659; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 01:33:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from garicao@localhost) by cap1.CapAccess.org (8.6.12/8.6.10) id BAA16322; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 01:39:01 -0400 Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 01:39:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Garcia Oliver To: The Flying Dutchman cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Mobil Oil FAQ In-Reply-To: <199707251444.KAA01340@alumni.umbc.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 25 Jul 1997, The Flying Dutchman wrote: > It works. My 80 CB650 has nearly 20k miles on it, more than 3/4 > of which have been [mine] using Mobil-1 15w50. Only now is the clutch > starting to slip, a testament not to the oil, but to the bike's age. Really? Why do you think so? In my experience, clutches should last a good deal longer than 20k. One of my bikes is an '81 GS-650 with over 50,000 miles on the original clutch---which still works fine. (I've seen other bikes with more.) Its diet is limited to antiquated vegetarian-dinosaur-food---but it probably doesn't know what it's missing. > > Mineral motor oils are as antiquated as the vegetarian-dinosaur-food > that originally produces them. Even with older bikes, use a modern oil. > > "Tao k'o Tao fei ch'ang Tao (Tao called Tao is not Tao)" - Lao-tzu > --garcia "Practicing the recent occidental art of wren-ching." From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jul 26 10:50:07 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA10471; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 10:50:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA11754; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 10:49:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from beta.mcit.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA19532; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 10:49:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from omzrelay.mcit.com (omzrelay.mcit.com [166.37.204.49]) by beta.mcit.com (8.8.6/) with ESMTP id JAA28667; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 09:48:27 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pop1a.mail.mci.com (pop1a.mail.mci.com [166.37.204.5]) by omzrelay.mcit.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id JAA32109; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 09:48:26 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localHost ([166.41.111.40]) by pop1a.mail.mci.com (Post.Office MTA v3.0 release "turbo_2" ID# 1-123U25000L1S10) with SMTP id AAA29036; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 09:48:25 -0500 Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 10:45 -0400 (EDT) From: "Todd B Peer" To: cb750 , dc-cycles Subject: Handle Bar Plug... X-Mailer: MailRoom v2.1e Message-ID: <19970726144823.AAA29036@localHost> I have a '92 CB750 NiteHawk that I want to improve a little. Anyone out there with one knows that the mirrors are positioned to look more at your shoulders than what's behind you. I recently bought some aftermarket mirrors to fit the ends of the handle bars. When I pulled one of the grips though I discovered a metal plug in the end. I don't know if it is glued in, screwed in or what. Has anyone removed this plug, and can you tell me how to? CB750 List respond direct to me, please. Thanks, Todd From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jul 26 11:28:10 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA10686; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 11:28:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA12544; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 11:27:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from alpha.mcit.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA20521; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 11:27:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ndcrelay.mcit.com (ndcrelay.mcit.com [166.37.172.49]) by alpha.mcit.com (8.8.6/) with ESMTP id LAA03600 for ; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 11:27:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pop1a.mail.mci.com (pop1a.mail.mci.com [166.37.204.5]) by ndcrelay.mcit.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id LAA01858 for ; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 11:27:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localHost ([166.41.111.40]) by pop1a.mail.mci.com (Post.Office MTA v3.0 release "turbo_2" ID# 1-123U25000L1S10) with SMTP id AAA6726 for ; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 10:27:21 -0500 Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 11:24 -0400 (EDT) From: "Todd B Peer" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: CAD X-Mailer: MailRoom v2.1e Message-ID: <19970726152720.AAA6726@localHost> On Sat, 26 Jul 1997 00:16:58 -0400 (EDT) Kevin Wrote: >Hey, y'all- > >I still haven't "done my homework" on this tire issue. The fact is, when I >went back to see if I had the right tire, I explained to Dave what had >happened and he said the 55 was the right tire for me. It was the stickier >of the two. Sounds like you didn't explain it right the first time. >I pay these guys to know what's up. If I knew everything, or >had time to find it out, I'd own a cycle shop. If Dave had said the 99 was >just as good, I'd have said "OK" and that'd be the end of it. You pay those guys for the product they sell. If you want to excuse yourself from taking the time to learn about one of the most critical components on your motorcycle, that's your business. I'm sure you could hire someone to do your thinking in the future though. God help them if they're wrong, in your eyes. >I specifically >didn't want some race compound gumball on it. That's what I was taking off, >(ME1 CompK) and I wanted more than 3000 miles out of the tire. Why didn't you say that 'specifically' in the first place. From your original post: >>>Anyway, I called there and told the guy on the phone I wanted whichever was >>>the sportier of the ME55 or ME99 Metzeler rear tire. Metzeler calls them >>>both sport tourers, but they don't really make it clear which is sportier. >>> So the guy says I need the 99. I gave him my credit card and told him to >>>get one. I got the tire on, rode it a week, during which time I noticed the >>>55 on some sportbikes and the 99 on my friend's Harley. Obviously I had the >>>wrong tire. You asked for the 'sportier' tire. If the ME99 allows you to stick it harder, than to me that is 'sportier'. >The fact is, >Dave's parts men were in elementary school when I started riding, they were >still in elementary shhool when my bike was built, and they have probably >never ridden a bike with bias ply tires. They didn't know the product and >they blew it. If they'd said "I don't know", and taken a few minutes to find >out, we wouldn't have this problem. > >If I had wondered which tire I should use, out of _all_ tires made, like some >folks say "What's the best tire?", then I could see that I'm in the wrong. > Nobody can be expected to answer a question like that for somebody elses' >needs. What I asked was which of these _two_ tires is _stickiest_? They >should have gotten it right. And, no, a used tire is not saleable as new, >and that's unfortunate for him, but his employee made a statement of fact, >and was wrong. Dave freely admitted he was wrong. > >Dave would have an easier time selling that used tire than I would, and if he >had done right by me, I'd be telling you all what a great shop he has. In >fact, I did that not long ago. If he had to eat $75 off the deal, how long >do you think it'd take to make that back off me? I don't carry my Dennis >Kirk catalog around and hassle guys on price. I have 2 motorcycles, one of >which is totalled and needs lots of money spent on it. I want to go racing. > More money for Dave. I'm buying leathers. The fact is, he doesn't sell >Vanson, and that's what I want, but I called him first when I was looking for >where to get them. I bought a $225 Goretex rainsuit from him. I don't mess >around. He could have made that $75 back off me in a day. Instead, this is >what he gets. I feel bad about it too. He's a nice guy, and he has good >prices, like I said. But there's plenty of other nice guys around here >selling motorcycle parts, and none of them has caused me any problems. Not >that I usually want to return things. And if one of the other shops screws >me on a return some day, I'll tell you about it. > >I'm not saying Dave is a crook or that he has a bad shop. I'm saying that he >made a bad business decision. His decision had unpleasant consequences for >me, and this is my response. That's it. No hard feelings on my part. I've >done my part as a consumer, and I will consume elsewhere. I'm not even >saying I think you shouldn't shop there. I'm just telling you what happened >to me. I may end up paying more for my parts because I don't shop at CAD. > OTOH, it'd be worth paying a bit more to shop somewhere that will take back >their mistakes. I've just paid $134 extra for my tire because I shopped at >CAD. Yeah, I still have the ME99, but it's only worth something if somebody >wants it. > >That's my story and I'm sticking to it. > >Kevin You know, I can't really tell that your giving us _all_ the 'facts', but it's obvious you're upset. It's also obvious your talking out of both sides of your mouth. First you bitch about being ripped off (from your point of view), and then say that Dave is not a crook, he just made a bad business decision. Then you say your not upset! Fine, you feel you've been dis-serviced and you registered that complaint here. However, I'm not convinced I should not shop at CAD if I ever wanted to. My .02 is that if you are going to race motorcycles, you'd better learn about the components that make the machine work and don't run around telling everyone that it's CADs fault that you bought the tire you did. Todd From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jul 26 16:13:23 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA12144; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 16:13:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA17158; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 16:13:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skippy.umiacs.umd.edu by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA29115; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 16:13:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from server2.illuminet.net by skippy.umiacs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA16521; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 16:13:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mrider.illuminet.net ([205.215.55.61]) by server2.illuminet.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA22419; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 16:44:54 -0400 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970726201328.006801dc@illuminet.net> X-Sender: mrider@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 16:13:28 -0400 To: George Howell , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Leon Begeman Subject: Re: Year Round Riding At 20:56 25-07-97 -0400, George Howell wrote: >>I ride year around, and usually put at least 300 miles per week on the bike. >>(I only rode 100 miles the week of the great blizzard of '96) > > >For us newbies, how does one go about accomplishing such weather-defying >feats? Practice and a profound lack of common sense. I started out riding to work except when it rained, then discovered that if it rained in the afternoon, it didin't matter because I could change clothes when I got home. By keeping a set of clothes at work, I could ride when it rained in the morning. I continued to upgrade the clothes I wear to deal with the cold until now I can ride for a couple of hours when the temp is 10 degrees. Riding on dirt roads helps ones confidence on all manner of loose surfaces. Oil spills, rain, snow, leftover sand and dirt all act about the same under the tires. > And if you have any idea for mounting a snowboard on a motorcycle >(to carry to resorts;) I'd mount it the same way as anything else. First put the bike on the centerstand and try various places to put the board (sideways, longways, like a saddlebage, etc.) When you find a place that will work, identify the places where the bike and board will make contact. Pad those places and fasten bike and board together so that those places are tightly together and don't move. I've never carried one of those, but I did carry my son and his bicycle once. The bicycle tied down quite nicely to the luggage rack on the back of the motorcycle. Leon Begeman (703) 590-9073 13391 Packard Dr., Dale City, VA 22193 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jul 26 17:04:09 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id RAA12369; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 17:04:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id RAA17391; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 17:03:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skippy.umiacs.umd.edu by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id RAA00973; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 17:03:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from micros-bh.micros.com by skippy.umiacs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id RAA19949; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 17:03:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by micros-bh.micros.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) id RAA16352 for ; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 17:02:43 -0400 Received: from micros.micros.com by micros-bh.micros.com via smap (3.2) id xmaa16330; Sat, 26 Jul 97 17:02:26 -0400 Received: from smtplink.micros.com (smtplink.micros.com [206.241.52.10]) by micros.micros.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/micros-2.1) with SMTP id RAA15349; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 17:02:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccMail by smtplink.micros.com (ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.00) id AA869950813; Sat, 26 Jul 97 17:00:15 -0500 Message-Id: <9707268699.AA869950813@smtplink.micros.com> X-Mailer: ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.00 Date: Sat, 26 Jul 97 16:58:06 -0500 From: "Brian McCoy" To: , , Subject: Re: Year Round Riding MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >I ride year around, and usually put at least 300 miles per week on the bike. >(I only rode 100 miles the week of the great blizzard of '96) For us newbies, how does one go about accomplishing such weather-defying feats? And if you have any idea for mounting a snowboard on a motorcycle (to carry to resorts;), I'm all ears:) Actually saw some guy with a special backpack doing that in Killington VT this year. Course, it was May... Well, I don't know about arround these parts (i did ride all last winter.. but that's nothing big), but up in Montana it's difficult to ride year round. I was fortunate to have a $100 70-something KZ440 to play with. The tires were shot when I bought it and I just ran 1/2" wood screws through the tires.. then coated the inside wth lots of duct tape (it ran tube tires). I also manufactured (read - welded while drunk) a holder for my downhill skis. Yes, I did ride this bike all winter in montana, and yes I did ride it to the ski slopes. It only takes a litle courage (for rideing arround cage drivers that have no clue about controling a spin or slide) and some warm clothes. By the way, falling off in the snow hurts lots less... and doesn't tear up any clothing.. Anyway.. I'll run along and play now... Brian McCoy From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jul 26 21:07:14 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id VAA13356; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 21:07:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id VAA18113; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 21:06:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skippy.umiacs.umd.edu by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id VAA07686; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 21:06:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bos1h.delphi.com by skippy.umiacs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id VAA28408; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 21:06:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [38.30.46.107] ("port 2048"@[38.30.46.107]) by delphi.com (PMDF V5.1-8 #23839) with SMTP id <01ILPG2CFYG09PM627@XXXXXX> for dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 21:06:47 EDT Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 21:06:29 -0400 From: George Howell Subject: Re: Year Round Riding To: Leon Begeman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Message-id: <01ILPG2D0UQQ9PM627@delphi.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >By >keeping a set of clothes at work, I could ride when it rained in the >morning. I actually figured that one out all on my own;) It's an extension of high school/college where I'd keep a change of clothes at my girlfriend's house in case it was too late to drive home (or I'd had too much to drink, or whichever excuse my parents would believe that week) >I continued to upgrade the clothes I wear to deal with the cold until now I >can ride for a couple of hours when the temp is 10 degrees. And what sort of clothes does one where when the temp is 10 degrees? -5 at a ski resort I know how to dress for. But 30 on a bike? Do you wind up with so much bulk that you can't move? Does that matter? And are you riding behind a fairing or windscreen? >Riding on dirt roads helps ones confidence on all manner of loose surfaces. >Oil spills, rain, snow, leftover sand and dirt all act about the same under >the tires. I am lucky (?) to live on a one mile dirt road. Learned how to ride on gravel pretty fast;) ``` (o o) *------------oooO----(_)-------------------* |..George Howell..georgehowell@XXXXXX..| | http://people.delphi.com/~georgehowell | *--------------------------oooO------------* |__||__| || || ooO Ooo From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jul 26 22:13:28 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA13788; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 22:13:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA18465; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 22:13:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp3.erols.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA10215; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 22:13:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from default (spg-as49s65.erols.com [207.172.97.249]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA32251; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 22:13:09 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970726221130.006d2960@mail.geocities.com> X-Sender: gixer@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 22:11:30 -0400 To: "Todd B Peer" , AWheat@XXXXXX, Brian McCoy , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "Collin T. Fagan" Subject: Re: Address Checking...John&Sharon In-Reply-To: <19970722014636.AAA20773@localHost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:40 PM 7/21/97 -0400, you wrote: > Sorry for the late response, but between me checking mail intermittently this week, and the wonderful EROLS Internet only working intermittently this week I got behind in the mail. I too plan on hitting this ride and seeing how it works out. I'll be leaving the Tyson's Corner area around 0815 or so if anyone wants to ride out to the Burger Scream together. EEk, that means I gotta get up real early to give the beast a bath and put all the fairings back on...that should make the wife happy (currently they are in the middle of the extra bedroom...post maintenance :) See Ya'll there, Collin >Thanks Collin. > >Shoulda guessed the Barbelle tic.... > >Guys, > >You've seen this...maybe. > >There's a ride comin Sunday....We met Allen this past Sunday in Manassass >for the annual VOC ride to Solomans Island. It was a real cluster fuck, >and Stephan Lee, Steve B. and me split before the pack...got lost >at least three times (CAMS tradition?) and still arrived 30 minutes >before the other 50 or so riders at the Catamaran Restaurant. > >Anyway, if I go this weekend I'd like to put on some serious contentious >mileage, hmm? What I mean is, take Allens route and blow it out for >a circuit. Its good...runs up to Monaongahela and just stops in Seneca >Rocks. Beautiful if you've never been, but it needs closure! The >trip out is at least 150miles, I'm thinkin' closer to 350. What do you >think?.. > >You guys let me know and I'll put the X-tra tally on. Any problems >with occasional gravel??? > > Todd > >PS. Weekend of 8/3...motorcycle Hill Climbs. Steve B. You have the >details..pass 'em on... >________________________________________ >Hello fellow riders and thanks again to all of those who have participated in >our group rides thus far. To those who have just been added to the list as >of this invitation, I welcome you. I know many of you would love to come >ride with us if it weren't for those prior commitments. Well, if there was >ever a time to call in sick for your Sunday job, it's this coming weekend so >that you can come on our group motorcycle ride. We will be going on one of >the following 1-day rides which I have designed. Read a brief description of >each and then find out which one we will be going on Sunday. > >SHENANDOAH > Check out scenic George Washington National Forest, Front Royal, and the >always twisty route 211 at Shenandoah National Park. > >HARPER'S FERRY > Includes a casual ride to the tip of West Virginia just past Leesburg >while using the lesser traveled roads and byways. > >SKYLINE > Elevations reaching 3,600 feet and typically at least 10 degrees cooler >than here. Lots of deer and other natural sights to see. Runs through 70 >miles of Skyline Drive, but over half of the ride is through shady back roads >in the farms of the valley east of the park. > >MONONGAHELA > Elevations reaching 4,800 feet not too far into West Virginia. This >ride will go to the highest point in West Virginia before returning back. > >Well, here's which one I've planned for this weekend. We are going to Wild, >Wonderful West Virginia to visit the Monongahela National Forest. Ever >wonder where the highest point in that state was? Well, I'll tell you >anyway. Spruce Knob, known for its beautiful fur trees (which don't >typically grow in lower elevations), is just under 5,000 feet above sea level >and I'm sure you can expect the temperature there to be much cooler than in >the metro area. While we are there, we'll ride over to Seneca Rocks for >still more great scenery. The ride will span as much as 200 miles of >fabulous scenery and fuel stops will be made along the way. So, consider >yourself invited to the group ride. > >Here's all you need to know in order to be present for Sunday's ride. We >will be meeting at the BURGER KING restaurant in front of MANASSAS MALL. Be >there as early as 8:30am for breakfast. We will be leaving at 9:15am sharp. > I expect we will be back in town by 5 or 6pm. > >If you need more details, like directions, email me at AWheat@XXXXXX. Also >email me if you already know you can make it, so I have a sense of how many >will be coming on the ride. If enough people arrive, we will break into >smaller groups. Of course, our overall pace will vary with road and traffic >conditions. > >All types of riders and bikes are welcome. Each week has seen a growing >number of you taking part in the group rides. We have had all kinds of bikes >turn out so far. >While some like to handle the turns more swiftly (and those people should be >in the front of the group, like myself), we keep a reasonable pace overall so >that none of the group gets lost. If ever any of the group gets slowed by >the curves or caught by lights and traffic, we won't leave them behind. I >like to design routes which will be enjoyed by all riders regardless of >whether or not they ride a race bike, a cruiser, or a standard style of bike. > > >I am always designing new routes and I welcome suggestions. Perhaps you >would like to show the group your favorite destination. Let me know. My >favorite rides typically head due west for the quickest access to the >mountains, but we can always go other places. > >Feel free to forward this email to anyone you like. All riders are welcome. > If someone has forwarded this email to you and you would like to be on my >direct mailing list of riders, email me at AWheat@XXXXXX and I will add your >email address. If at any time you wish to be removed from the list, simply >let me know. > >Thanks and I hope to see you there, >Alan R. Wheat >AWheat@XXXXXX > > _________________________________________ Collin and Penny Fagan LTjg, U.S. Coast Guard (202) 366-0067 (work) (703) 356-4279 (home) (703) 816-7255 (pager) http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/5280/ ride.html (ride sheets) bike.html (pics of the bikes) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Jul 27 05:20:16 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id FAA15975; Sun, 27 Jul 1997 05:20:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id FAA20675; Sun, 27 Jul 1997 05:19:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skippy.umiacs.umd.edu by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id FAA17750; Sun, 27 Jul 1997 05:19:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from iceland.it.earthlink.net by skippy.umiacs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id FAA18547; Sun, 27 Jul 1997 05:19:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [153.35.91.84] (1Cust84.tnt5.tco2.da.uu.net [153.35.91.84]) by iceland.it.earthlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA23127; Sun, 27 Jul 1997 02:19:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: level_5_ltd@XXXXXX Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <01ILPG2D0UQQ9PM627@delphi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 05:24:57 -0400 To: George Howell , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Alan Lapp Subject: Re: Year Round Riding >And what sort of clothes does one where when the temp is 10 degrees? -5 >at a ski resort I know how to dress for. But 30 on a bike? Do you wind up >with so much bulk that you can't move? Does that matter? And are you >riding behind a fairing or windscreen? I've been blessed with a gene that forces me to ride all year long. I've slowed down a bit with my advancing age (a whopping 32, which I never thought I'd see) and no longer ride in the snow. Basically, the key to cold weather riding is wind protection and layers. I have a summer jacket that fits snugly with just a Tshirt on, and a winter jacket that is more generously cut to accomodate a sweater. A key ingredient in choosing winter leathers is an absence of zippered pockets, and a wide flap on the main zipper. One of my favorite pieces of gear is a $15 nylon pullover windbreaker, which I wear over the sweater, and under the leathers. Gloves are so important! Keep your hands warm, and everything is rosy. I've been really pleased with Olympia's top line winter gauntlets. At $75, they were a bit steep, but have proven their worth. 2 years ago, I broke down and bought an electric vest. It was the best damn $125 I've ever spent on an MC accessory. Don't know how I made it through all the years without one. I must be getting soft. > >>Riding on dirt roads helps ones confidence on all manner of loose surfaces. >>Oil spills, rain, snow, leftover sand and dirt all act about the same under >>the tires. > >I am lucky (?) to live on a one mile dirt road. Learned how to ride on >gravel pretty fast;) Yeah, the 'rents built a cabin in W VA - gravel riding is great experience. I now race, and sliding doesn't bother me a bit! Al level_5_ltd@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Jul 27 05:57:00 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id FAA16065; Sun, 27 Jul 1997 05:57:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id FAA20788; Sun, 27 Jul 1997 05:56:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skippy.umiacs.umd.edu by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id FAA18755; Sun, 27 Jul 1997 05:56:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from server2.illuminet.net by skippy.umiacs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id FAA19466; Sun, 27 Jul 1997 05:56:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mrider.illuminet.net (dialup12.illuminet.net [205.215.55.12]) by server2.illuminet.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA23035 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 1997 06:10:22 -0400 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970727053843.00685c28@illuminet.net> X-Sender: mrider@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 05:38:43 +0000 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Leon Begeman Subject: Re: Year Round Riding At 21:06 26-07-97 -0400, you wrote: >And what sort of clothes does one where when the temp is 10 degrees? -5 >at a ski resort I know how to dress for. But 30 on a bike? Do you wind up >with so much bulk that you can't move? Does that matter? And are you >riding behind a fairing or windscreen? The -5 at a ski resort clothes would be a good place to start. The fairing or windscreen is probably the most cost-effective way to stay warm. A big barn door style windshield makes about a 10 degree difference. If you ride regularly, electric clothes are wonderful. I use a Widder vest every month of the year. I wore it last week. Wear the electric stuff close to but not directly touching your skin, layer your other clothes over the electrics. The outermost layer should be windproof. I use the Helmet Halo neoprene thing around the bottom of my full face helmet, and tuck it into the top of my Aerostich. That pretty much stops the wind around my neck. I wear electric gloves with rain mittens over them. Electric socks, and either insulated rubber outdoor boots or my dress cowboy boots and Totes. For long distances, I wear a rainsuit over the Aerostich, the Aerostich isn't completely windproof and the rainsuit blocks that last bit of wind. I don't often wear the rainsuit because it does add enough bulk that it's hard to move. The bulk does matter, I get sore/tired muscles if I can't move about a bit. >I am lucky (?) to live on a one mile dirt road. Learned how to ride on >gravel pretty fast;) > > > > ``` > (o o) >*------------oooO----(_)-------------------* >|..George Howell..georgehowell@XXXXXX..| >| http://people.delphi.com/~georgehowell | >*--------------------------oooO------------* > |__||__| > || || > ooO Ooo > > Leon Begeman (703) 590-9073 13391 Packard Dr., Dale City, VA 22193 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Jul 27 09:47:08 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA16755; Sun, 27 Jul 1997 09:47:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA21275; Sun, 27 Jul 1997 09:46:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp1.erols.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA24390; Sun, 27 Jul 1997 09:46:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sturges.erols.com (spg-as48s36.erols.com [207.172.47.163]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA21718; Sun, 27 Jul 1997 09:50:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970727094546.006b2120@pop.erols.com> X-Sender: sturges@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 09:47:14 -0400 To: KLThomas77@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Rich and Leslie Sturges Subject: Re: 1st racebike-VF500? 600R? or? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Kevin- The VF500 is a good bike on which to start racing. The 600R is not, because you would be competing against F3s and the like. For a new racer the most important qualities that your bike must have are: reliable to maximize track time good handling to allow you to learn racing (shock and suspension setup is far more important than horsepower) not so powerful that it scares you (varies among students) Most students use the bike they have, and if you have a reliable VF500 I'd use it. Upgrade the tires, front and rear suspension, brake pads and ride the pants off it! rich At 10:04 PM 7/24/97 -0400, KLThomas77@XXXXXX wrote: >Hey, y'all- > >I want to take some racing schools, and once I've done that, maybe race a >bit. I don't want to use my 87 VFR for a schooI. I have no illusions about >my ability. I'll be finishing last, no matter what I'm riding. I'm >interested in something cheap and ratty that I don't have to worry about >crashing. > >I have sold my wrecked 92 VFR (awaiting the check), and part of the deal >could include a good-working, tired looking, stock, street-ready VF500. I >don't know what year. The price is around $1000. I know a guy who had a >Ninja 600R for sale, fairly thrashed, wrecked (mostly cosmetic damage) for >$800 firm. He may still have it. > >Are either of these reasonably priced? Are they potentially suitable for my >task? Of course, if I don't scare the s--t out of myself, I might like to >have a bike that could finish somewhere better than last, but I'm not willing >to spend extra money to get that bike now. If one of those bikes (or some >thrasher one of you may have in the yard) is better than the other, I'd like >to know about it. > >OTOH, what would it cost to rent a slow racer? Any volunteers? How do those >arrangements work? One concern I have is if I wreck somebody elses bike, the >money I spend to fix it (I assume I'm liable for damages) could have bought >me my own bike to wreck. At least I'd get to keep it after the wreck.... > >Any input will be appreciated. > >Thanks >Kevin > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Jul 27 11:05:22 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA16957; Sun, 27 Jul 1997 11:05:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA21501; Sun, 27 Jul 1997 11:04:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from taz. by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA26664; Sun, 27 Jul 1997 11:04:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from overload.elkrun.nova.org by taz. (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA11819; Sun, 27 Jul 1997 11:03:11 -0400 Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 11:04:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas Piergallini To: Rich and Leslie Sturges cc: KLThomas77@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: 1st racebike-VF500? 600R? or? In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970727094546.006b2120@pop.erols.com> Message-ID: X-X-Sender: pierre@XXXXXX MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 27 Jul 1997, Rich and Leslie Sturges wrote: > >I have sold my wrecked 92 VFR (awaiting the check), and part of the deal > >could include a good-working, tired looking, stock, street-ready VF500. I > >don't know what year. The price is around $1000. I know a guy who had a > >Ninja 600R for sale, fairly thrashed, wrecked (mostly cosmetic damage) for > >$800 firm. He may still have it. I raced a 600R my first season. It is not worth the trouble. You would spend MUCH money just getting it to the point that Rich talked about, and then you would be very unhappy as to how poorly you will do against the other racers. Assuming you do learn fast, your skill will quickly go beyond the bike, and they you will be no where. Also there is no good rubber for this bike. Now cheapness is a factor here, but better add another $1000 to the 800 just to get it into racing trim (shocks, tires and lots of handlebars..) With substantial mods they can be ok, but forget about a straight away. You will not even come close to keeping up. Get a used race bike that is not thrashed for around 2500. I like FZRs and in fact have one if you are interested, ready for the track. I got pictures of it on a web page.... -- Thomas Piergallini EMail: pierre@XXXXXX, pierre@XXXXXX Send me MIME mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 28 08:10:21 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id IAA24500; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 08:10:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id IAA29044; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 08:09:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dadc012.army.mil by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id IAA29873; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 08:09:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by dadc012.army.mil with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) id <01BC9B2D.91C28810@XXXXXX>; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 08:09:28 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Dysart, Glenn B., Mr., IMCEN" To: "'DC Cycles'" Subject: RE: Year Round Riding/ August 2 Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 08:09:27 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 Encoding: 27 TEXT You guys are heroes. Is it really worth it to go riding when you have to plaster on all those clothes? Don't get me wrong, I love riding but when it gets really cold I can't enjoy the ride like on a nice 70 or 80 degree day. Also, anyone up for a ride this Saturday (August 2)? I was thinking maybe western MD but no definites yet. I'm up for suggestions if someone would like to ride somewhere else. Glenn Dysart DysarGB@XXXXXX > >>And what sort of clothes does one where when the temp is 10 degrees? -5 >>at a ski resort I know how to dress for. But 30 on a bike? Do you wind up >>with so much bulk that you can't move? Does that matter? And are you >>riding behind a fairing or windscreen? > >>The -5 at a ski resort clothes would be a good place to start. The fairing >>or windscreen is probably the most cost-effective way to stay warm. A big >>barn door style windshield makes about a 10 degree difference. If you ride >>regularly, electric clothes are wonderful. I use a Widder vest every month >>of the year. I wore it last week. Wear the electric stuff close to but not >>directly touching your skin, layer your other clothes over the electrics. >>The outermost layer should be windproof. I use the Helmet Halo neoprene >>thing around the bottom of my full face helmet, and tuck it into the top of > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 28 08:33:08 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id IAA24589; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 08:33:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id IAA29169; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 08:32:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ngedns.northgrum.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id IAA00877; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 08:32:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xcgca001.xcg.northgrum.com ([132.228.123.154]) by ngedns.northgrum.com (8.8.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id FAA07123 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 05:30:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by xcgca001.xcg.northgrum.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) id <01BC9B30.B458B860@XXXXXX>; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 08:31:54 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Meier, Christopher" To: "'DC Cycles'" , "'Dysart, Glenn B., Mr., IMCEN'" Subject: RE: Year Round Riding/ August 2 Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 08:31:20 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >---------- >From: Dysart, Glenn B., Mr., IMCEN[SMTP:Dysart@XXXXXX] >Sent: Monday, July 28, 1997 8:09 AM >To: 'DC Cycles' >Subject: RE: Year Round Riding/ August 2 > >You guys are heroes. Is it really worth it to go riding when you have >to plaster on all those clothes? Don't get me wrong, I love riding but >when it gets really cold I can't enjoy the ride like on a nice 70 or 80 >degree day. Of course not ... I'd take 70 deg all the time too. But, as someone who rides year round, I can tell you that a cold ride *is still better than* NO ride. YMMV, chris BTW, I have never stored a bike for winter in the DC area, it is just not cold enough. I ride every chance I get, except when there is snow on the ground, or it drops below ~18 deg. Even then, it only does that for a few days at a time. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------ Christopher A. Meier meierch@XXXXXX Northrop Grumman Corporation, Washington DC, USA 1994 RF900R AMA #470094 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 28 08:56:36 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id IAA24732; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 08:56:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id IAA29348; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 08:56:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from quimby by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id IAA01733; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 08:56:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jil-c_norloff by quimby (IBM OS/2 SENDMAIL VERSION 2.01/2.0) for ; id IAE107.32; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 08:55:49 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970728084520.0093dcf0@204.194.180.21> X-Sender: cnorloff@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 08:45:20 -0400 To: dc-cycles From: Chris Norloff Subject: Re: Mobil Oil FAQ In-Reply-To: References: <19970724191226.AAA16485@localHost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> Q. CAN I USE MOBIL 1 IN MY MOTORCYCLE ? >> >> A. Absolutely. Mobil 1 15W-50 exceeds motorcycle engine oil requirements >> for 4-stroke cycle engines. Follow your owner's manual for recommended oil >> and filter change frequencies. > >Well, this kind of misses the point that lots of people have made. Note >that it says "motorcycle engine oil requirements". I don't doubt that. >However, those of us with a wet clutch still have serious concerns about >what synthetic oils are going to do to us. I notice that there is a >complete absence of comment about that particular concern. Does anyone >have some experience with using a synthetic with a wet clutch? I've used synthetic oil (mostly Mobil 1) in my 1981 & 82 Honda CB750F's for about 7 years and 70,000 miles. The wet clutch is fine (no slippage, even when pulling a sidecar). The transmission is fine. Mobil 1 is good oil. Chris Norloff From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 28 10:08:28 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA25519; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:08:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA29950; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:07:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emout12.mail.aol.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA04438; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:07:44 -0400 (EDT) From: KLThomas77@XXXXXX Received: (from root@localhost) by emout12.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id KAA19026 for dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:07:12 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:07:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970728100557_-1274560422@emout12.mail.aol.com> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: wrecked 92 VFR still for sale Hey, y'all- My deal just fell through. The bike is still for sale. If you missed the original post, it needs almost all the plastic, plus a radiator repair. No frame/suspension damage I can see. I have some of the parts to fix it, and know where to get more. $1700. I can fix it for you if you want at a reasonable price. I have all the details. you can call me at 301-424-5319. I'm in Potomac MD. I have 7 large photos at http://www.geocities.com/heartland/7815/vfr.htm It will load slowly. Thanks Kevin From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 28 10:44:58 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA25892; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:44:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA00542; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:44:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from alumni.umbc.edu by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA06144; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:44:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from pverst1@localhost) by alumni.umbc.edu (8.8.5/Alumni) id KAA29078 for dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:46:11 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:46:11 -0400 (EDT) From: The Flying Dutchman Message-Id: <199707281446.KAA29078@alumni.umbc.edu> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: oils George Howell asked: * * While on the subject of synthetic oils, has anybody noticed any improved * (or worsened) shift action with the synthetic oils. Back when I was * interested in cars (Hot Rod subscriber for 11 of my 24 years;) they all * claimed improvements with synthetic tranny lubes. * Non-synthetic mineral-based oils are antiques. Their time has past. Synthetics are better in every respect (but initial co$t) but take care to avoid "blends." Like coffee, you never know how much of the good-stuff you get, and how much "cut." :) I don't think nature had motors, trannies, and CV-joints in mind in her master plan, so it makes sense that man does a better job in caring for these creations than nature [ever] can. :) L8r, P8r. pverst1@XXXXXX =;) "Tao k'o Tao fei ch'ang Tao (Tao called Tao is not Tao)" - Lao-tzu From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 28 10:54:42 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA25958; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:54:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA00616; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:54:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from drquest.digex.net by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA06614; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:54:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 172.17.2.100 (pix000197.staff.digex.net [206.205.168.209]) by drquest.digex.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA05361; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:53:15 -0400 Message-ID: <33DCB26A.96459BA5@digex.net> Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:53:35 -0400 From: "Warren W. Weiss" Reply-To: wweiss@XXXXXX Organization: DIGEX; Industrial Strength Internet X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Todd B Peer CC: cb750 , dc-cycles Subject: Re: Handle Bar Plug... X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <19970726144823.AAA29036@localHost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Todd B Peer wrote: > ...When I pulled one of the grips though I discovered a metal plug > in the end. I don't know if it is glued in, screwed in or what. Has > anyone removed this plug, and can you tell me how to? It's probably welded in. A Dremel tool with appropriate attachments should make it an easy task. ************************************************************************ Warren W. Weiss VMI '87 DIGEX: Industrial Strength Internet Sales Engineer One DIGEX Plaza mailto:wweiss@XXXXXX Beltsville, MD 20705 http://www.digex.net From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 28 10:54:45 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA25963; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:54:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA00604; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:54:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from alumni.umbc.edu by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA06610; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:54:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from pverst1@localhost) by alumni.umbc.edu (8.8.5/Alumni) id KAA29214 for dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:55:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:55:57 -0400 (EDT) From: The Flying Dutchman Message-Id: <199707281455.KAA29214@alumni.umbc.edu> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: cycle accessory discounters Bryndyn Weiner said: * * KLThomas77@XXXXXX wrote: * > Anyway, I called there and told the guy on the phone I wanted whichever was * > the sportier of the ME55 or ME99 Metzeler rear tire. [...] * > As far as I'm concerned, I got hosed. * [...] * Sorry, I don't have a lot of sympathy for you. Do your * homework first. Your trusted that his judgement would also be your judgement. * That's your problem not his. I'm surprised he gave you the deal he did. * * Sorry to sound so brutal but I hate to see someone's business hurt by a * non-black/white issue such as you have described. I have had good experiences * with them. * I have no choice but to agree with you, Bryndyn. Trust is a good quality in a person, but so are communication and knowing what you want/need. And now that you know, good. But don't make the CAD shop (and a good shop it is) the casualty of your education. Give 'em another chance. I've done business with 'em before, and they really are quite knowledgable. L8r, P8r. pverst1@XXXXXX =;) "Tao k'o Tao fei ch'ang Tao (Tao called Tao is not Tao)" - Lao-tzu From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 28 11:38:43 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA26455; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 11:38:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA01508; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 11:37:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skippy.umiacs.umd.edu by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA08541; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 11:37:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.clark.net by skippy.umiacs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA07966; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 11:37:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from explorer2.clark.net (sward@XXXXXX [168.143.0.5]) by mail.clark.net (8.8.5/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA03748 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 11:37:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (sward@localhost) by explorer2.clark.net (8.8.5/8.7.1) with SMTP id LAA21560 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 11:37:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: explorer2.clark.net: sward owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 11:37:09 -0400 (EDT) From: David Sward To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: MSF dates Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi all, I could use some help with MSF dates. My brother wants to take the Maryland MSF course in September when he returns from Maine. I tried calling the 800 number (447-4700) but got referred to 800-638-1722 which is a Maryland-only 800 number. If someone could call the 638 number and get the September dates for me, I'd appreciate it. I'd ferret out the 301- number and call myself, but as I work in Herndon I'd rather not have my company pay for this call (we got a note this morning encouraging us to limit personal calls, even local calls). Thanks. PS. Bad batteries that can't hold a charge suck. I ended up pushing my F2 home last night after a test ride (installed an SS2R). *sigh* -- David Sward sward@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 28 13:14:12 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA28010; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 13:14:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA03348; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 13:12:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from quimby by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA13826; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 13:12:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jil-c_norloff by quimby (IBM OS/2 SENDMAIL VERSION 2.01/2.0) for ; id NAB123.17; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 13:12:26 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970728125328.009406a0@204.194.180.21> X-Sender: cnorloff@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 12:53:28 -0400 To: "'DC Cycles'" From: Chris Norloff Subject: RE: Year Round Riding/ August 2 In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>You guys are heroes. Is it really worth it to go riding when you have >>to plaster on all those clothes? Don't get me wrong, I love riding but >>when it gets really cold I can't enjoy the ride like on a nice 70 or 80 >>degree day. > >Of course not ... I'd take 70 deg all the time too. But, as someone who >rides year round, I can tell you that a cold ride *is still better than* >NO ride. I second that emotion. I commute year 'round. My choices are: 1. Take the cage and take longer to get there, pay more for parking, pay more in gas, AND risk getting stuck for hours in car-caused gridlock. 2. Take the cage to Metrorail, pay more for parking, pay the Metro fee. 3. Take a few extra minutes to don some extra clothes, plug in the ol' electric vest, and ride my bike ... Work to Ride, Ride to Work, Chris Norloff From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 28 13:14:13 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA28015; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 13:14:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA03351; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 13:12:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skippy.umiacs.umd.edu by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA13830; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 13:12:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from quimby by skippy.umiacs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA23507; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 13:12:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jil-c_norloff by quimby (IBM OS/2 SENDMAIL VERSION 2.01/2.0) for ; id NAC123.17; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 13:12:28 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970728130855.009c7980@204.194.180.21> X-Sender: cnorloff@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 13:08:55 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Chris Norloff Subject: Re: MSF dates In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I could use some help with MSF dates. My brother wants to take the >Maryland MSF course in September when he returns from Maine. I tried >calling the 800 number (447-4700) but got referred to 800-638-1722 which >is a Maryland-only 800 number. If someone could call the 638 number and >get the September dates for me, I'd appreciate it. I'd ferret out the >301- number and call myself, but as I work in Herndon I'd rather not have >my company pay for this call (we got a note this morning encouraging us to >limit personal calls, even local calls) 410/508-2439 is the general number. It's answered from about 9am to 4:30pm, I think. The course is intended for (and funded by) Maryland residents, but non-residents can take it for $100, which is still below cost. Chris Norloff From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 28 13:26:54 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA28178; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 13:26:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA03651; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 13:26:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oasys.dt.navy.mil by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA14459; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 13:26:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from DTNET19-131.dt.navy.mil by oasys.dt.navy.mil (5.61/oasys.dt.navy.mil) id AA05919; Mon, 28 Jul 97 13:25:21 EDT Date: Mon, 28 Jul 97 13:25:21 EDT Message-Id: <9707281725.AA05919@oasys.dt.navy.mil> X-Sender: mackinto@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: The Flying Dutchman From: David Mackintosh Subject: Re: cycle accessory discounters Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 10:55 AM 7/28/97 -0400, you wrote: > I have no choice but to agree with you, Bryndyn. Trust is a good >quality in a person, but so are communication and knowing what you >want/need. And now that you know, good. But don't make the CAD shop >(and a good shop it is) the casualty of your education. Give 'em >another chance. I've done business with 'em before, and they really >are quite knowledgable. I like CAD, myself, and Dave (owner, racer) and Jeff (rides and wrenches a Ducati 750SS, modified Hawk) are both good, but I would beware of some others that work there. I have talked to one young, non-riding kid behind the counter previously, and in the last couple of weeks ordered parts from another guy there who had no idea what a Honda NT650 Hawk GT was. If you went into Coleman Powdersports, would you trust anyone? (Actually, there was a parts-guy there named Mark that I liked, don't know if he's still around.) Once in a while, they've got a part that I don't want to wait for, but I don't ask them what I need. I consider myself an enthusiast and somewhat of a gear-head, so I usually know what I want (as well as what it should cost) before I go to any shop. Mailing lists (especially bike-specific ones) are a great source of info, and I trust the opinions of those that I know are knowledgeable at the shops I frequent. I definitely would not trust someone I had not talked to before behind a parts counter to select a tire for me, unless they could really convince me that they were more knowledgable than your average sales-droid. Dave was more than generous in giving the original poster a second tire at cost and eating the labor. David Mackintosh Wave Sport Godzilla, Necky Arluk 1.8 mackinto@XXXXXX '88 Integra LS, '96 Integra SE Germantown, MD, USA '82 245 Turbo, '89 Honda Hawk GT RC31 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 28 13:29:54 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA28208; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 13:29:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA03671; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 13:29:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from norway.it.earthlink.net by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA14553; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 13:29:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [153.35.91.61] (1Cust61.tnt5.tco2.da.uu.net [153.35.91.61]) by norway.it.earthlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA25590 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:29:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: level_5_ltd@XXXXXX Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 13:34:44 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Alan Lapp Subject: RE: Year Round Riding/ August 2 >You guys are heroes. Is it really worth it to go riding when you have >to plaster on all those clothes? Don't get me wrong, I love riding but >when it gets really cold I can't enjoy the ride like on a nice 70 or 80 >degree day. > >Also, anyone up for a ride this Saturday (August 2)? I was thinking >maybe western MD but no definites yet. I'm up for suggestions if >someone would like to ride somewhere else. > >Glenn Dysart >DysarGB@XXXXXX I *have* to spam this: this weekend at Summit Point is a National 4-Hour endurance event. The big teams will be there, including Team Suzuki, Arclight Racing, and the local favorites, Army of Darkness. Nationally known riders such as Tray Batey and Grant Lopez will be racing. Look for the new lap record to fall. If you only see one race this year, this would be a good one to see! Al level_5_ltd@XXXXXX WERA #426, CCS#425 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 28 13:55:11 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA28524; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 13:55:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA04030; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 13:54:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp3.erols.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA15995; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 13:54:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bergie.erols.com (bergie.erols.com [207.96.57.227]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA21003 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 13:54:35 -0400 Message-Id: <199707281754.NAA21003@smtp3.erols.com> From: "Bergie Frazier Jr" To: "'DC Cycles'" Subject: MIR 080397 Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 13:54:03 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This coming Sunday 08/03/97 is the MIR motorcycle event. If you're planning on running your bike (either for fun or for bracket racing), you should know that if your posted dial-in time is 10.99 or faster, you will need an ignition kill switch to pass tech inspection. These are not very expensive and are usually in stock at most dealers. I picked up a real nice one this morning at Fast Lane Cycles in Chantilly (703-818-8890). It simply splices in to your existing kill switch, and has a rider-mounted clip so if you come off the bike it will kill the ignition. Anyone interested in meeting with our group to ride there or meet us there, let me know. Bergie Frazier, Jr., Owner Paragon Consulting 4451 Brookfield Corporate Drive, Suite 112 Chantilly, VA 20151-1693 TEL: 703-968-3023 FAX: 703-968-3025 EMAIL: bergie@XXXXXX WWW: paragon-consulting.com FTP: 207.96.57.227 STORE HOURS: 9AM-6PM Monday-Thursday, Friday 9-3pm From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 28 14:23:03 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA29282; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 14:23:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA04917; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 14:22:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from inside.sinai-balt.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA17731; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 14:22:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c2smtp.sinai-balt.com (sinai-balt.com) by inside.sinai-balt.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA16583; Mon, 28 Jul 97 14:21:51 EDT Received: from fonger-portable.sinai-balt.com (21.120.62.105) by c2smtp.sinai-balt.com (Connect2-SMTP 4.20A.00001E1) for ; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 14:21:01 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970728101928.00693b98@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: hggmd@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:19:28 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "Harry G. Greenspun, M.D." Subject: Cold weather riding Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The one thing that has extended my riding season the most has been my Widder electric vest. It's a fantastic item, particularly in this area where the mornings can be quite chilly, but the afternoons can be quite pleasant. On my way to work (at 6 a.m.) I wear a t-shirt, the vest, and my leather jacket which keeps me toasty down to about 40 degrees. Anything colder and I supplement with a turtleneck. In the afternoon, I put the very compact vest away and don't have to contend with lots of bulky clothes. I am a bit spoiled that my new bike (BMW R1100RT) also has heated hand grips, plus good fairing coverage. I thought the grips were just a gimmick, but they really do make a big difference. There are aftermarket kits available. Harry Bethesda, MD '97 BMW R1100RT '93 Kawasaki ZX-11 (stolen) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 28 14:37:54 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA29772; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 14:37:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA05275; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 14:37:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from DONALD.CDER.FDA.GOV by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA19193; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 14:37:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mr.cder.fda.gov by fdaserv.cder.fda.gov (PMDF V5.1-8 #9595) id <01ILRV2V36OW927GHT@XXXXXX> for dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 14:38:56 EDT Received: with PMDF-MR; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 14:38:49 -0400 (EDT) MR-Received: by mta DONALD; Relayed; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 14:38:49 -0400 Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 14:38:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Kirk Roy Subject: Re: Cold weather riding To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 14:38:52 -0400 (EDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal Sensitivity: Company-Confidential UA-content-id: E586IYJ35BN4 X400-MTS-identifier: [;94834182707991/1850571@FDACD] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 1 >I am a bit spoiled that my new bike (BMW R1100RT) also has heated >hand grips, plus good fairing coverage. I thought the grips were >just a gimmick, but they really do make a big difference. There are >aftermarket kits available. The Rider's Wearhouse catalog (the AeroStich people) have wrap around dealy-bobs that go over your grips and can be easily removed. They're something like $25. 1-800-222-1994. Also, here's another voice in the pro electric vest camp. They are great. As is often said, once you have one, you'll never be without one again. Kirk From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 28 15:47:20 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA01723; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 15:47:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA06755; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 15:43:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dirsun1.nichd.nih.gov by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA23867; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 15:43:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from goddardj ([137.187.221.31]) by dirsun1.nichd.nih.gov (8.8.5/8.7.2) with ESMTP id PAA15921; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 15:41:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33DCF60C.FFE05333@dirsun1.nichd.nih.gov> Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 15:42:04 -0400 From: jay goddard X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alan Lapp CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Year Round Riding/ August 2 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What time is the 4-hour starting? Alan Lapp wrote: > >You guys are heroes. Is it really worth it to go riding when you > have > >to plaster on all those clothes? Don't get me wrong, I love riding > but > >when it gets really cold I can't enjoy the ride like on a nice 70 or > 80 > >degree day. > > > >Also, anyone up for a ride this Saturday (August 2)? I was thinking > >maybe western MD but no definites yet. I'm up for suggestions if > >someone would like to ride somewhere else. > > > >Glenn Dysart > >DysarGB@XXXXXX > > I *have* to spam this: this weekend at Summit Point is a National > 4-Hour > endurance event. The big teams will be there, including Team Suzuki, > Arclight Racing, and the local favorites, Army of Darkness. > > Nationally known riders such as Tray Batey and Grant Lopez will be > racing. > Look for the new lap record to fall. > > If you only see one race this year, this would be a good one to see! > > Al > level_5_ltd@XXXXXX > WERA #426, CCS#425 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 28 15:56:10 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA01830; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 15:56:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA06930; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 15:53:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emout06.mail.aol.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA24586; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 15:53:00 -0400 (EDT) From: KLThomas77@XXXXXX Received: (from root@localhost) by emout06.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id PAA26309; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 15:52:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 15:52:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970728155224_277485169@emout06.mail.aol.com> To: bergie@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Kill switches I don't know if it's legal, but I've seen a kill switch made by screwing an eye-screw into the kill button, and attatching a cord from it to the wrist. Kevin From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 28 20:57:10 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id UAA07637; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 20:57:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id UAA09678; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 20:54:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from scdh-99.umd.edu by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id UAA11168; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 20:54:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pcb.hazmat.com ([207.226.52.195]) by scdh-99.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA14938 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 20:54:26 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970728205500.0068b0a4@gateway.hazmat.com> X-Sender: mjb@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 20:55:00 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Matt Bennett Subject: Maryland MSF Instructor Prep Course Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" FYI:I recently got this in the mail from the Maryland MVA, for which I just happen to work as an MSF instructor. Pay is $12.00/hr, and you get to ride the finest Rebel 250s and Nighthawk 250s (during classes only). The course is not easy, and you do need to be both a good rider and a good teacher. If you've ever wanted to become an instructor- here's your chance. ======= The Maryland MVA is accepting applications for the 1997-1998 Instructor Preparation Course. The course will be given at the Prince George's Community College and Frederick MVA from September 1997 through April 1998. The Course is approximately 85 hours and will require participation on evenings and weekends. The registration fee for the course is $50.00. All Applications and registration fees must be recieved by the MVA office by September 1. If interested call Darlene Dunton at 410-508-2439 or 1-800-638-1722 (within Maryland) for additional information and application package which will include training schedules for Prince George's Community College and Frederick MVA. ----------------------------- Matt Bennett | mjb@XXXXXX | http://www.hazmat.com/~mjb/ | From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 28 22:59:25 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA08499; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 22:59:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA10143; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 22:58:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from norway.it.earthlink.net by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA15534; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 22:58:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [153.34.247.134] (1Cust134.tnt3.tco2.da.uu.net [153.34.247.134]) by norway.it.earthlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA24297 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 19:58:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: level_5_ltd@XXXXXX Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199707281754.NAA21003@smtp3.erols.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 23:04:09 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Alan Lapp Subject: Re: MIR 080397 >This coming Sunday 08/03/97 is the MIR motorcycle event. >If you're planning on running your bike (either for fun or for >bracket racing), you should know that if your posted dial-in >time is 10.99 or faster, you will need an ignition kill switch to >pass tech inspection. A trick that I've seen is to put a small screw into the run side of the OEM kill switch and attach the cord to it. That way, pulling the run side equals pushing the stop side. BTW, they are called a Dead Man switch. Al level_5_ltd@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 29 07:13:01 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id HAA11930; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 07:13:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id HAA13742; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 07:12:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from server2.illuminet.net by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id HAA25464; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 07:12:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mrider.illuminet.net (dialup2.illuminet.net [205.215.55.2]) by server2.illuminet.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA25980; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 07:45:13 -0400 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970729111310.006733c8@illuminet.net> X-Sender: mrider@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 07:13:10 -0400 To: "Dysart, Glenn B., Mr., IMCEN" , "'DC Cycles'" From: Leon Begeman Subject: RE: Year Round Riding/ August 2 At 08:09 28-07-97 -0400, Dysart, Glenn B., Mr., IMCEN wrote: >You guys are heroes. Is it really worth it to go riding when you have >to plaster on all those clothes? With a few important exceptions, a bad day riding is better than a good day doing almost anything else. Besides, any fool can ride in July, it takes a special kind of fool to ride in January. Leon Begeman (703) 590-9073 13391 Packard Dr., Dale City, VA 22193 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 29 10:26:42 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA13599; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 10:26:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA15830; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 10:26:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emh3.arl.mil by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA02790; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 10:26:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccMail by emh3.arl.mil (IMA Internet Exchange v1.04) id 3ddfb260; Tue, 29 Jul 97 10:16:06 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 10:21:21 -0400 Message-ID: <3ddfb260@emh3.arl.mil> From: Dave_Choat@XXXXXX (Dave Choat) Subject: Re[2]: Year Round Riding/ August 2 To: "Dysart, Glenn B., Mr., IMCEN" , "'DC Cycles'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Heroes my eye, if you are insulated right, riding remains a pleasure, not an endurance test. Wear the the right stuff, and don't look back. Dry days in the middle of winter are umpopulated by Winnibagos, campers, sightseers and T-shirt wearing speed morons on racer boy bikes. It is a better time to do some riding than the warm weather alternative. Dave (It was a Lava soap box) You guys are heroes. Is it really worth it to go riding when you have to plaster on all those clothes? Don't get me wrong, I love riding but when it gets really cold I can't enjoy the ride like on a nice 70 or 80 degree day. Also, anyone up for a ride this Saturday (August 2)? I was thinking maybe western MD but no definites yet. I'm up for suggestions if someone would like to ride somewhere else. Glenn Dysart DysarGB@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 29 10:38:49 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA13771; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 10:38:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA16032; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 10:38:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skippy.umiacs.umd.edu by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA03239; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 10:38:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.clark.net by skippy.umiacs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA18059; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 10:38:29 -0400 (EDT) From: jimi@XXXXXX Received: from explorer2.clark.net (jimi@XXXXXX [168.143.0.5]) by mail.clark.net (8.8.5/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA04491 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 10:38:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (jimi@localhost) by explorer2.clark.net (8.8.5/8.7.1) with SMTP id KAA21340 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 10:38:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: explorer2.clark.net: jimi owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 10:38:23 -0400 (EDT) To: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Re[2]: Year Round Riding/ August 2 In-Reply-To: <3ddfb260@emh3.arl.mil> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 29 Jul 1997, Dave Choat wrote: > Heroes my eye, if you are insulated right, riding remains > a pleasure, not an endurance test. Wear the the right stuff, > and don't look back. Dry days in the middle of winter are > umpopulated by Winnibagos, campers, sightseers and T-shirt wearing > speed morons on racer boy bikes. It is a better time to do some > riding than the warm weather alternative. True, no bagos and dick-boys, but LOTS of deer, at least in the mountains. I mean, at least in the summer, they are only out in force in the evening, but in the winter, they are all over the place. Plus, you still have to deal with sand on the exit ramps, etc.... -jimi <-- looking forward to fall riding. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 29 11:35:25 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA14457; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 11:35:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA16726; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 11:35:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from research.circ.gwu.edu by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA05603; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 11:35:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gwis2.circ.gwu.edu (root@XXXXXX [128.164.127.252]) by research.circ.gwu.edu (8.8.4/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA05906 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 11:34:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from combustion ([128.164.160.134]) by gwis2.circ.gwu.edu (8.8.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA27751 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 11:35:05 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 11:35:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199707291535.LAA27751@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu> X-Sender: mpt@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "M.P. Tolocka" Subject: DC Licensing and such. Hey There. I'm bringing my bike (1990 CB-1) down from Jersey after owning it for _five_ years and 4000 miles. I have hardly ever ridden alone. For one reason or another, (rain, mostly, travelling expenses to Jersey to a lesser extent) I still have my permit not my license. As such, I was wondering about good insurance companies and how much of a pain obtaining a DC license is, since I recently obtained my cage license because of parking and whatnot. Thanks. Michael P. Tolocka _Keep the shiny side up._ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 29 12:13:16 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA14818; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 12:13:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA17659; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 12:12:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp3.erols.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA07242; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 12:12:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from default (spg-as55s26.erols.com [207.172.49.89]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA21601; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 12:12:55 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970729121143.00714e58@mail.geocities.com> X-Sender: gixer@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 12:11:43 -0400 To: "M.P. Tolocka" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "Collin T. Fagan" Subject: Re: DC Licensing and such. In-Reply-To: <199707291535.LAA27751@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I'm bringing my bike (1990 CB-1) down from Jersey after owning it for _five_ >years and 4000 miles. I have hardly ever ridden alone. For one reason or >another, (rain, mostly, travelling expenses to Jersey to a lesser extent) I >still have my permit not my license. As such, I was wondering about good >insurance companies and how much of a pain obtaining a DC license is, since >I recently obtained my cage license because of parking and whatnot. > For fear of starting the insurance thread from hell again..... I'm military with an out of state license, so I can't talk much about that, but as for insurance I've found that NO ONE can beat State Farm's coverage for a younger person on motorcycles. They base their coverage on displacement rather than type of bike. As far as they are concerned, my GSXR is the same as a CB750 Nighthawk. They won't cover a bike alone though, but their rates on cages are equally low. USAA, GEICO, and Progressive also offer competitive rates, but to get the same coverage I have now, the price increase was at minimum several hundred/year more up to well over 1000/year more. Also, USAA will not directly insure sport bikes. They use a general agency that will charge an arm and a leg for liability/comprehensive only. They won't even let you get full coverage. >From how this thread has gone in the past, I'd say Progressive probably is about the next closest you will find reasonable. Collin _________________________________________ Collin and Penny Fagan LTjg, U.S. Coast Guard (202) 366-0067 (work) (703) 356-4279 (home) (703) 816-7255 (pager) http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/5280/ ride.html (ride sheets) bike.html (pics of the bikes) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 29 12:28:54 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA15317; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 12:28:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA17981; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 12:28:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skippy.umiacs.umd.edu by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA08702; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 12:28:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from beta.mcit.com by skippy.umiacs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA26471; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 12:28:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ndcrelay.mcit.com (ndcrelay.mcit.com [166.37.172.49]) by beta.mcit.com (8.8.6/) with ESMTP id LAA25584 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 11:28:06 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pop1a.mail.mci.com (pop1a.mail.mci.com [166.37.204.5]) by ndcrelay.mcit.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA11447 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 12:28:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localHost ([166.41.242.141]) by pop1a.mail.mci.com (Post.Office MTA v3.0 release "turbo_2" ID# 1-123U25000L1S10) with SMTP id AAA15783 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 11:28:04 -0500 Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 12:21 -0400 (EDT) From: "Todd B Peer" To: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Re[2]: Year Round Riding/ August 2 X-Mailer: MailRoom v2.1e Message-ID: <19970729162801.AAA15783@localHost> >On Tue, 29 Jul 1997, Dave Choat wrote: > >> Heroes my eye, if you are insulated right, riding remains >> a pleasure, not an endurance test. Wear the the right stuff, >> and don't look back. Dry days in the middle of winter are >> umpopulated by Winnibagos, campers, sightseers and T-shirt wearing >> speed morons on racer boy bikes. It is a better time to do some >> riding than the warm weather alternative. > >True, no bagos and dick-boys, but LOTS of deer, at least in the mountains. >I mean, at least in the summer, they are only out in force in the evening, >but in the winter, they are all over the place. Plus, you still have to >deal with sand on the exit ramps, etc.... > "speed morons"?, "racer boy bikes"?, "dick-boys"????!! There are just as many reasons to ride in the winter as there are to ride in the summer. If you are properly attired, winter riding is great. I commute every day I can, and even though it is only a 40 mile round-trip I'd still rather be riding than sitting on the I95 parking lot. In fact, on those blistering hot or bone-chilling days I begin to question just what the hell am I doing out here, I look over to the right and receive confirmation. It's just better to ride. Last winter was the first one I didn't use a fairing. My basic attire is a pair of heavy gauntlet gloves, a Spartan one-piece (looks like a snow-mobile suit), tall 'Combat Touring' boots and a neck adams apple guard (looks like a skirt attached to helmet and stuffed into the neck of the Spartan). On those x-tra cold days I add a layer of wool glove and fleece under jacket. Since this thread began, I've been seriously toying with the electric vest/gloves idea. My hands and face are really the only cold spots. The trick as you winter riders know is to keep the wind off of your skin. Aside from adding on clothing, the only other downside to winter riding as I see it is that it's hard to wash the bike :-) Todd PS, I love the looks I get from the office crowd when I show up in my Michelin Man outfit. You can almost see the shivers in their eyes. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 29 12:56:44 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA16290; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 12:56:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA18784; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 12:56:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skippy.umiacs.umd.edu by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA11219; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 12:56:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from msexchange.calibresys.com by skippy.umiacs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA28817; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 12:56:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by MSEXCHANGE with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 12:56:41 -0400 Message-ID: <8C701AD947BED011ABF300805FC1F0620343E1@MSEXCHANGE> From: Amit Chatterjie To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" Subject: FW: Re[2]: Year Round Riding/ August 2 Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 12:56:39 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Don't get me going on this winter riding thing... The gents and lasses in the cages need to wear more gear before the heater kicks in than I do on the bike. I find it humorous looking at them shivering at the stop light wondering what if "god forbid" their car broke down or got a flat and they get exposed to the 'ambiance'. Comfort is relative... Well, I'm off to Cozumel to wear the underwater type of head gear thing. Any other scuba divers on this list going to be down there? Amit CBR1000 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 29 13:44:34 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA17929; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 13:44:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA19419; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 13:43:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from send2.rocketmail.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA15109; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 13:43:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19970729174112.17.rocketmail@send2.rocketmail.com> Received: from [204.4.28.2] by web1; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 10:41:12 PDT Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 10:41:12 -0700 (PDT) From: John Whiteside Reply-To: whiteside@XXXXXX Subject: Re: DC Licensing and such. To: "M.P. Tolocka" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hey, it's nice to know I'm not the only DC resident reading this list... DC licensing was very easy. I moved here last fall & got my first bike about two months ago. When I moved here, I had a motorcycle learner's permit from Massachusetts (hadn't gotten an actual license yet). When I was converting my Massachusetts driving license to DC, I asked about a learner's permit, and they had never heard of a motorcycle learner's permit. They gave me a written motorcycle test and gave me a motorcycle license with no road test at all. Whether this is just standard practice or a standard DC government screwup, I have no idea. (I went and took the MSF course in Virginia anyway, because I figured it was just a smart thing to do.) DC registration was more complicated. When you show up with your title etc., they'll only give you a temporary tag. A car-sized one, no less; attach it very securely to your bike. Then, you go to one of the two DC inspection stations (one on Half St. SW, one off New York Ave NE) and get your bike inspected. This consists of making sure that the lights and horn work and pushing down on the fork. Then, you go BACK to motor vehicles and get a real plate and registration and, if you pay $10 extra, resident parking permit. I got the permit just in case, although my bike is garaged, but note that there's nowhere you can easily put it on the bike, unless you have a windscreen. As for insurance... I called Allstate (who insures my truck) and was quoted about $375 for my 82 Honda CX500. GEICO was about $300. That's for basic coverage (liability, no collision/comprehensive). When I was getting quotes I was also looking at a Magna 750; GEICO wouldn't insure me for that because it was my first bike, and they won't go over 600cc with new riders. State Farm wouldn't insure me unless they had my truck insurance too. I pointed out that this was a chance for them to show me how great they were and get all my business, but they didn't buy it. Other than the multiple trips to motor vehicles, it was easy enough. I recommend arriving at both motor vehicles and the inspection station early (like, an hour before they open); lines form quickly. ---"M.P. Tolocka" wrote: > > Hey There. > > I'm bringing my bike (1990 CB-1) down from Jersey after owning it for _five_ > years and 4000 miles. I have hardly ever ridden alone. For one reason or > another, (rain, mostly, travelling expenses to Jersey to a lesser extent) I > still have my permit not my license. As such, I was wondering about good > insurance companies and how much of a pain obtaining a DC license is, since > I recently obtained my cage license because of parking and whatnot. > > Thanks. > > Michael P. Tolocka > _Keep the shiny side up._ > > > _____________________________________________________________________ Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 29 15:01:04 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA21124; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 15:01:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA21104; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 15:00:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skippy.umiacs.umd.edu by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA22284; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 15:00:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emh3.arl.mil by skippy.umiacs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA22442; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 15:00:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccMail by emh3.arl.mil (IMA Internet Exchange v1.04) id 3de3a130; Tue, 29 Jul 97 14:44:35 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 14:57:40 -0400 Message-ID: <3de3a130@emh3.arl.mil> From: Dave_Choat@XXXXXX (Dave Choat) Subject: Re[4]: Year Round Riding/ August 2 To: DC Cycles Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part >Aside from adding on clothing, the only other downside to winter riding >as I see it is that it's hard to wash the bike :-) Yeah, the water sticks to everything, not good at all. Electrics are like, well, sex. Once you have tried it there aren't any acceptable substitutes. It even means you reduce the multi layer look too. As far as where I work, I am asked three things by non bikers types. 1) Aren't you hot? 2) Aren't you cold? 3) Aren't you (going to get) wet? Dave From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 29 15:36:34 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA22511; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 15:36:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA22479; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 15:36:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from medlantic.mhg.edu by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA25366; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 15:36:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by medlantic.mhg.edu id AB07969 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for dc-cycles@XXXXXX); Tue, 29 Jul 1997 15:36:16 -0400 Message-Id: <199707291936.AB07969@medlantic.mhg.edu> Received: by medlantic.mhg.edu (Protected-side Proxy Mail Agent-1); Tue, 29 Jul 1997 15:36:16 -0400 From: "McLoone, William J." To: DC-Cycles List Subject: Electrics Question (was: Cold weather riding) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 97 15:29:00 EST Encoding: 22 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Kirk, Dave, and others have been talking about all the benefits of electric vests, etc. I have a question/concern I would like some feedback on. Has any Electrics user had an experience where the Electrics failed? One of the benefits of Electrics is that you don't need to pack all the layers but if the Electrics fail I can see being stuck in the cold with no way to warm up. Any thoughts? Is my concern legitimate? Do you pack warm cloths as a back up? For the record, I ride an open bike all year, although I don't commute on two wheels, and have found a suit that protects me fairly well but have considered getting Electrics. What about widder vs. eclipse or high collar Vs v-neck opinions? Bill (Moses) McLoone '82 Suzuki GS-450TXz (SOLD) '81 Yamaha XS-11H (SOLD) Silver Spring, MD USA '82 Kawasaki KZ-750E (Blizzard) 1-800-AMA-JOIN Blue Knights-MD I "Ride with Pride" "Ride No Faster Than Your Guardian Angel Can Fly." - Kathryn Voth From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 29 15:55:28 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA23157; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 15:55:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA23167; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 15:55:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from DONALD.CDER.FDA.GOV by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA26889; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 15:55:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mr.cder.fda.gov by fdaserv.cder.fda.gov (PMDF V5.1-8 #9595) id <01ILTBVYOQ1C927JPC@XXXXXX> for dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 15:56:42 EDT Received: with PMDF-MR; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 15:54:55 -0400 (EDT) MR-Received: by mta DONALD; Relayed; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 15:54:55 -0400 Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 15:55:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Kirk Roy Subject: Re: Electrics Question (was: Cold weather riding) To: DC Cycles Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 15:55:00 -0400 (EDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal Sensitivity: Company-Confidential UA-content-id: E798IYK3EVJI X400-MTS-identifier: [;55455192707991/1853710@FDACD] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 1 >Has any Electrics user had an experience where the Electrics failed? There is very little to go wrong with an electric vest. I've never heard of one going dead. The thermostat or switch would be the components most likely to go. A weak alternator would cause you trouble though. A bike with a reasonable electrical system is a must. >One of the benefits of Electrics is that you don't need to pack all >the layers but if the Electrics fail I can see being stuck in the >cold with no way to warm up. Any thoughts? Is my concern >legitimate? Do you pack warm cloths as a back up? I will pack extra clothes in case of trouble (I pack a blanket and extra stuff in my car as well). I don't expect that the trouble will be the electric vest not working though. >For the record, I ride an open bike all year, although I don't >commute on two wheels, and have found a suit that protects me fairly >well but have considered getting Electrics. What about widder vs. >eclipse or high collar Vs v-neck opinions? I have a BMW vest (actually made by Widder) with a high, heated collar. The collar is worth the little bit extra. I don't have a thermostat but I plan on getting one when I feel like the money can be spent for it (the new, fancy pants thermostats are something like $70). All the vests I've seen have appeared to be pretty well made. I think that getting a good fit would be more important than the brand name. Therefore, lose or gain any weight before you buy the vest... There was a Rider review of the vests awhile ago. I can pull that out if anyone's interested. Kirk '88 Hawk GT, NT697, "Tweety" From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 29 16:30:28 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA24371; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 16:30:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA24286; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 16:29:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from inside.sinai-balt.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA29766; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 16:29:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c2smtp.sinai-balt.com (sinai-balt.com) by inside.sinai-balt.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA22419; Tue, 29 Jul 97 16:29:16 EDT Received: from fonger-portable.sinai-balt.com (21.120.62.105) by c2smtp.sinai-balt.com (Connect2-SMTP 4.20A.00001E1) for ; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 16:28:25 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970729163249.0068d1c4@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: hggmd@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 16:32:49 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "Harry G. Greenspun, M.D." Subject: Electric Vests Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >For the record, I ride an open bike all year, although I don't >commute on two wheels, and have found a suit that protects me fairly >well but have considered getting Electrics. What about widder vs. >eclipse or high collar Vs v-neck opinions? I have the Widder/BMW vest with the collar which works great. I had previously thought about getting the Eclipse vest without a collar since I wear racing leathers, but got the Widder with my bike (the cord fits the accessory plug). The collar fits fine under jacket and keeps me toasty. As for the thermostat, I commute about 50 minutes one way and only have the on/off switch. For rides under an hour, I may switch it off or on once, but not much more often. On my last trip down the Blue Ridge Parkway, though, the thermostat would have been a convenience, but not really necessary. By the way, the more I've thought about this thread, the more I've been reminded about how much I love my heated grips! Harry Bethesda, MD '97 BMW R1100RT '93 Kawasaki ZX-11 (stolen) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 29 16:30:44 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA24410; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 16:30:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA24316; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 16:30:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from msexchange.calibresys.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA29789; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 16:30:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by MSEXCHANGE with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 16:30:56 -0400 Message-ID: <8C701AD947BED011ABF300805FC1F0620343E4@MSEXCHANGE> From: Amit Chatterjie To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" Subject: FW: Electrics Question (was: Cold weather riding) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 16:30:54 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Don't take it personally but Cold weather riding ?.!@$ It's a little early for that discussion. Anybody have any ideas on air conditioned suits? How about fitting an air conditioner on a bike? I've seen cars with smaller engines than my bike & they have air conditioners. Amit CBR1000 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 29 16:58:47 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA25363; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 16:58:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA24874; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 16:58:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emh3.arl.mil by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA02028; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 16:58:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccMail by emh3.arl.mil (IMA Internet Exchange v1.04) id 3de57080; Tue, 29 Jul 97 16:48:08 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 16:41:23 -0400 Message-ID: <3de57080@emh3.arl.mil> From: Dave_Choat@XXXXXX (Dave Choat) Subject: Re: Electrics Question (was: Cold weather riding) To: DC-Cycles List Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Get the vest with the collar! I currently (pardon me) own a Widder vest, it is over 5 years old and I am the second owner. I recommend getting a control unit so you can vary the temperature setting. I like the collar, as it is an important place to have warmth, but if you have a zillion neck layers, maybe you don't want that. I ride with the vest, a long sleeve poly turtle neck and an aerostitch when it is cold. I have ridden even when the wind chill was in the teens. My hands get cold, so I bought a pair of heated grips (the BMW was free :)) Dave _______________________________________________________________________________ Subject: Electrics Question (was: Cold weather riding) From: "McLoone, William J." at ddn Date: 30/7/1997 3:29 PM Kirk, Dave, and others have been talking about all the benefits of electric vests, etc. I have a question/concern I would like some feedback on. Has any Electrics user had an experience where the Electrics failed? One of the benefits of Electrics is that you don't need to pack all the layers but if the Electrics fail I can see being stuck in the cold with no way to warm up. Any thoughts? Is my concern legitimate? Do you pack warm cloths as a back up? For the record, I ride an open bike all year, although I don't commute on two wheels, and have found a suit that protects me fairly well but have considered getting Electrics. What about widder vs. eclipse or high collar Vs v-neck opinions? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 29 18:17:01 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id SAA28222; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 18:17:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id SAA26125; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 18:16:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from thehub.knight-hub.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id SAA08590; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 18:16:20 -0400 (EDT) From: mobacc@XXXXXX Received: from dialpm6-28.knight-hub.com (dialpm6-28.knight-hub.com [205.177.16.69]) by thehub.knight-hub.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA04059 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 18:16:13 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.2.16.19970729181313.1cff79e6@knight-hub.com> X-Sender: mobacc@XXXXXX X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (16) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 18:13:13 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: DC Licensing and such. In-Reply-To: <19970729174112.17.rocketmail@send2.rocketmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Passings on about my spring D.C. licensing (noting other comments). Main points. I started from scratch as D.C. resident with D.C. license, no car owned for years (rent's been my bent). (Understand that the District has *major* admin problems these days, and DMV is revamping. *Several* times was deadended, so advise double checking next steps before leaving an apparent source of credible info. In my experience, Motorcycles are probably in the same phylum as electric wheelchairs infowise in the Department of Motor Vehicles. Plan to make several calls, imposing on those who seem to know for as much info as possible. Pre-visits to DMV, inspection station might yield later smiles.) License must have an "M" (or have MC Learner Permit) to use MC in D.C. To get M from scratch, I had to get MC learner permit then take driver test, MSF course or not (which I had). (This is different from MD, VA, where MSF is said to substitute for test). Appx 3 weeks between getting permit and test appt. MC testing is at cage test lot. MC circuit there was being rebuilt: completion? While I found (undocumented) test fair, MSF not a crib. Passed on second appointment. There was confusion (resolved) at the lot as to my using a MC with VA dealer tags for my D.C. driver test. Both times. Got the picture? Of interest: I bypassed temporary tags by going through inspection first (VA dealer tags, proof of insurance). Apparently it can apply in many titling situations. With proper paperwork and cash, my registration seemed to go fairly smoothly. I got Learner Permit insurance through Markel's Bikeline (1 800 236 Bike) after going through a stage where several companies said no. Two numbers from my months-old notes -- permits info 202 727 6693, registration info 202 727 0817. No guarantee now on these numbers. However, in spite of all this I am now a smiling D.C. Biker. There is a myriad of rousing routes from here after short urban treks, and I have no hesitation in recommending MCs in D.C. for my kinds of recreational use. YMMV. Bests. Bill Swanson EN500LTD At 10:41 AM 7/29/97 -0700, John Whiteside wrote: >Hey, it's nice to know I'm not the only DC resident reading this >list... > >DC licensing was very easy. I moved here last fall & got my first bike >about two months ago. When I moved here, I had a motorcycle learner's >permit from Massachusetts (hadn't gotten an actual license yet). When >I was converting my Massachusetts driving license to DC, I asked about >a learner's permit, and they had never heard of a motorcycle learner's >permit. They gave me a written motorcycle test and gave me a >motorcycle license with no road test at all. Whether this is just >standard practice or a standard DC government screwup, I have no idea. >(I went and took the MSF course in Virginia anyway, because I figured >it was just a smart thing to do.) > >DC registration was more complicated. When you show up with your title >etc., they'll only give you a temporary tag. A car-sized one, no less; >attach it very securely to your bike. Then, you go to one of the two >DC inspection stations (one on Half St. SW, one off New York Ave NE) >and get your bike inspected. This consists of making sure that the >lights and horn work and pushing down on the fork. Then, you go BACK >to motor vehicles and get a real plate and registration and, if you >pay $10 extra, resident parking permit. I got the permit just in case, >although my bike is garaged, but note that there's nowhere you can >easily put it on the bike, unless you have a windscreen. > >As for insurance... I called Allstate (who insures my truck) and was >quoted about $375 for my 82 Honda CX500. GEICO was about $300. That's >for basic coverage (liability, no collision/comprehensive). When I was >getting quotes I was also looking at a Magna 750; GEICO wouldn't >insure me for that because it was my first bike, and they won't go >over 600cc with new riders. State Farm wouldn't insure me unless they >had my truck insurance too. I pointed out that this was a chance for >them to show me how great they were and get all my business, but they >didn't buy it. > >Other than the multiple trips to motor vehicles, it was easy enough. I >recommend arriving at both motor vehicles and the inspection station >early (like, an hour before they open); lines form quickly. > >---"M.P. Tolocka" wrote: >> >> Hey There. >> >> I'm bringing my bike (1990 CB-1) down from Jersey after owning it >for _five_ >> years and 4000 miles. I have hardly ever ridden alone. For one >reason or >> another, (rain, mostly, travelling expenses to Jersey to a lesser >extent) I >> still have my permit not my license. As such, I was wondering about >good >> insurance companies and how much of a pain obtaining a DC license >is, since >> I recently obtained my cage license because of parking and whatnot. >> >> Thanks. >> >> Michael P. Tolocka >> _Keep the shiny side up._ >> >> >> > >_____________________________________________________________________ >Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 29 19:43:36 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id TAA01294; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 19:43:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id TAA26662; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 19:43:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bos1e.delphi.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id TAA15489; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 19:43:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [38.30.81.39] ("port 2062"@[38.30.81.39]) by delphi.com (PMDF V5.1-8 #23839) with SMTP id <01ILTK11F4V49PN1V6@XXXXXX> for dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 19:43:16 EDT Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 19:43:06 -0400 From: George Howell Subject: Re: DC Licensing and such. To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Message-id: <01ILTK128VHE9PN1V6@delphi.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >I'm military with an out of state license, so I can't talk much about that, >but as for insurance I've found that NO ONE can beat State Farm's coverage >for a younger person on motorcycles. I'll second my vote for State Farm. Undercut everyone else by 50% on full coverage on my Eliminator. -George ``` (o o) *------------oooO----(_)-------------------* |..George Howell..georgehowell@XXXXXX..| | http://people.delphi.com/~georgehowell | *--------------------------oooO------------* |__||__| || || ooO Ooo From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 29 19:59:52 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id TAA01792; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 19:59:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id TAA26771; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 19:59:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bikerboy.mnsinc.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id TAA16559; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 19:59:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from greg@localhost) by bikerboy.mnsinc.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA00258; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 19:58:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 19:58:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199707292358.TAA00258@bikerboy.mnsinc.com> From: Greg Greer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: "M.P. Tolocka" Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: DC Licensing and such. In-Reply-To: "DC Licensing and such." of July 29 from mpt@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu (M.P. Tolocka) References: <199707291535.LAA27751@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu> X-Mailer: VM 6.32 under Emacs 19.34.1 FCC: ~/post/dc-cycles I just have a couple of things to add to what some others have said. First, you can get your bike inspected _before_ you go to register it. Just have the current registration and title with you when you go to the inspection station. Then you only need to visit C St once. Second, many insurance companies available in MD and VA (Progressive, for example) don't write insurance in the District. Insurance here can be a real problem because we constitute a small market with a lot of problems for insurers. Shop around. (I need to take my own advice on that -- I'm getting screwed.) Good luck. Greg '92 Ducati 907ie, in black From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 29 21:29:05 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id VAA04601; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 21:29:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id VAA27266; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 21:28:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gateway.hazmat.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id VAA23199; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 21:28:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mjb@localhost) by gateway.hazmat.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA15667 for dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 21:28:44 -0400 From: Matt Bennett Message-Id: <199707300128.VAA15667@gateway.hazmat.com> Subject: Re: Electrics Question (was: Cold weather riding) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 21:28:43 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: from "Kirk Roy" at Jul 29, 97 03:55:00 pm Reply-To: mjb@XXXXXX X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > There is very little to go wrong with an electric vest. I've never heard of > one going dead. The thermostat or switch would be the components most > likely to go. A weak alternator would cause you trouble though. A bike with > a reasonable electrical system is a must. And you don't want to be in stop and go traffic with the vest on- a on/off switch is vital. I have a thermostat- as a thermostat it is useless- I only use it as an on/off switch. What would be nice is not a thermostat, but more like a level control, so I don't have to have it full on or full off. > I have a BMW vest (actually made by Widder) with a high, heated collar. The > collar is worth the little bit extra. I don't have a thermostat but I plan > on getting one when I feel like the money can be spent for it (the new, > fancy pants thermostats are something like $70). My vest with collar actually makes me uncomfortable- it keeps me very warm but the heat on the back of my neck makes me uncomfortable. Look at the Gerbing electrics- they are the only electrics manufacturer that put sleeves on their clothing- not just the vest. Often I'll just wear my vest without plugging it in- just as an extra insulating layer. Having sleeves would be nice, since most motorcycle jackets seem to have skimpy insulation in the sleeves. Matt Bennett mjb@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 29 22:50:26 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA07399; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 22:50:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA27857; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 22:50:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp02.worldbank.org by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA29540; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 22:50:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mrgw.worldbank.org by worldbank.org (PMDF V5.1-8 #16195) id <01ILTQIL8WU88Y9H41@XXXXXX> for dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 22:49:12 EDT Received: with PMDF-MR; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 02:48:22 +0000 (GMT) MR-Received: by mta NEPTN; Relayed; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 02:48:22 +0000 MR-Received: by mta SMTPGW; Relayed; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 02:49:11 +0000 Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 02:37:05 +0000 (GMT) From: "Brian S. Smith" Subject: GPz1100--End of Story (I hope!) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Message-id: <"E665ZWYLWKZSF*/R=WBWASH/R=A1/U=BRIAN S. SMITH/"@MHS> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 02:48:00 +0000 (GMT) Importance: normal Priority: normal UA-content-id: E665ZWYLWKZSF X400-MTS-identifier: [;22842003707991/1215080@WBWASH] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 2 Two weeks ago I joined this list for advice on a long-troubling electrical problem w/ an '82 GPz1100 (9900 mi). Thanks to all who responded. Generally the advice was to find a short, probably caused by a wire's insulation worn through. Here's how it turned out: Because the fuse failed by slow melting rather than "blowing," a bare wire short wasn't expected to be the culprit. Also the after-market horns proved not to be at fault as they aren't wired through the fuse box (I'd hate for anyone to avoid some great honkers on this theory.) Testing of circuits in place indicated amperages within ranges expected. An amp meter from an old battery charger then was wired across the main fuse, and monitored down the road for many miles, but never read high. Here a flash of great insight (or good fortune!) and observation that one of the main fuse terminals has very slight corrosion. An in-line fuse of the same amperage was wired across the main fuse circuit--and the bike has been running fine since! (including commuting through those recent melt-metal-in-the-shade days). This impressive sleuthing was done by Garcia (Survival Services) and I trust faithfully recorded here. -------- I'd welcome any msgs readers would care to send directly, but the volume of list traffic through my 9-5 email account was too distracting, and I've opted off the list. BS From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 30 02:45:22 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id CAA10208; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 02:45:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id CAA29528; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 02:45:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from beta.mcit.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id CAA05087; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 02:45:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ndcrelay.mcit.com (ndcrelay.mcit.com [166.37.172.49]) by beta.mcit.com (8.8.6/) with ESMTP id BAA26197 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 01:44:32 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pop4a.mail.mci.com (pop4a.mail.mci.com [166.37.172.5]) by ndcrelay.mcit.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id CAA18418 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 02:44:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [166.41.209.148] by pop4a.mail.mci.com (Post.Office MTA v3.0 release "turbo_2" ID# 1-123U25000L1S10) with SMTP id AAA20819 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 02:44:31 -0400 To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: Heated Vests Date: Tue, 29 Jul 97 23:44:36 -0500 From: "Linda Tanner" X-Mailer: messageMCI v3.3 Message-ID: <19970730064429.AAA20819@[166.41.209.148]> -- [ From: Linda J. Tanner * EMC.Ver #3.3 ] -- I ride year round on a bike with a tiny fairing (F3). I have the Widder electric vest, chaps and gloves (although I don't use the gloves - they're too thick). All with a thermostat. And I'm a temperature wuss. I like to think it's because I grew up in Miami and we didn't have to deal with 30 degree temps. I wear the vest even not plugged in under may Fieldsheer Patriot suit without the lining. A little extra insulation. I also have the velcro-on heated grips from Rider Wearhouse, but I haven't used them. They look a little cheesy. I feel like the Michelin man when I'm all duded up and I don't care for it. It makes me nervous when my range of motion is decreased, but then again, lots of things make me nervous on the bike. Snow, ice, gravel, sand, etc. you get the picture. All that said, a ride - even if I get cold - is better than no ride. And you're right about the questions - hot, cold, wet?? But smilin' LindaT. 95 F3 Purple Haze From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 30 08:20:26 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id IAA12483; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 08:20:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id IAA02967; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 08:20:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xgate.usia.gov by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id IAA11930; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 08:20:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Connect2 Message Router by xgate.usia.gov via Connect2-SMTP 4.30A; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 08:17:42 -0400 Message-ID: <2122DF3301BD1110@xgate.usia.gov> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 8:19:21 -0400 From: "Adams, Bill" Sender: "Adams, Bill" X-Confirm-Reading-To: Disposition-Notification-To: Organization: USIA To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX (DC-Cycles List) Subject: Need GL1100 motor....anybody? Importance: High MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-disposition: inline Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Connect2-SMTP 4.30A MHS/SMF to SMTP Gateway In a shower of oil and magnesium chips, the Gold Wing's engine threw a con ron out the top while I was humming down I-270. Total bummer. Anyone who might know of where I could find a replacement that won't cost me the moon, please drop me a note. I really want to repair this bike. Bill Adams 3D Artist/Animator '66 Land Rover S2A 109 Diesel Station Wagon, '81 Honda Goldwing 1100 Standard: "Practicing the ancient oriental art of ren-ching" From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 30 09:00:15 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA12801; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 09:00:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA03663; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 09:00:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emh3.arl.mil by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA13454; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 09:00:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccMail by emh3.arl.mil (IMA Internet Exchange v1.04) id 3df38800; Wed, 30 Jul 97 08:50:08 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 08:53:20 -0400 Message-ID: <3df38800@emh3.arl.mil> From: Dave_Choat@XXXXXX (Dave Choat) Subject: DIY Electrics page To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Hey folks, Here is a friend's web page on making electrics for yourself. It isn't as hard as it looks, and take my word for it, this person rides a great deal, year round, in Chicago. http://orion.it.luc.edu/~shuff/electrics.html Dave From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 30 13:32:03 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA16287; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 13:32:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA10447; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 13:30:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dadc012.army.mil by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA25890; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 13:30:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by dadc012.army.mil with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) id <01BC9CEC.BE368430@XXXXXX>; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 13:30:27 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Dysart, Glenn B., Mr., IMCEN" To: "'DC Cycles'" Cc: "'ROYK@XXXXXX'" , "'mrubinst@XXXXXX'" , "'KLThomas77@XXXXXX'" , "'bmccoy@XXXXXX'" , "'jwallace@XXXXXX'" , "'sbeck@XXXXXX'" Cc: "'mike@XXXXXX'" , "'GregS@XXXXXX'" , "'wudon@XXXXXX'" , "'VENTURE.ROYALE@XXXXXX'" , "'McKinney, Dale'" Subject: Ride this Saturday (August 2) to central VA/WV Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 13:30:22 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 Encoding: 23 TEXT Gang, Kirk and I are planning a ride for this Saturday to central VA and WV. It looks like we will head to either Harrisonburg or Staunton and then travel west into West Virginia. I'd like to leave fairly early (between 9:00 and 9:30) so that we can make a day of great riding. Anyone that wants to go let me know. Round trip should be somewhere in the 400 mile range. Since I'm only about one exit from I-66 we can meet at my house and leave from there. Routes getting there and back are still up in the air so any suggestions are welcome. Looking at the weather channel homepage Saturdays forecast for the ride is as follows: Washington DC: partly cloudy High 93 Harrisonburg VA: Partly Cloudy High 90 Elkins, WV: Partly Cloudy High 86 Glenn Dysart DysarGB@XXXXXX 84 V30 Magna Home (703) 658-4870 Work (703) 697-0615 mobile (703) 855-4870 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 30 14:01:37 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA16804; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 14:01:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA13028; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 14:00:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jeb.s3i.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA27357; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 13:59:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from elmo.s3i.com by jeb.s3i.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA21000; Wed, 30 Jul 97 13:59:51 EDT Received: from localhost by elmo.s3i.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA09469; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 13:59:50 -0400 Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 13:59:50 -0400 (EDT) From: "Clark E. Dorman" X-Sender: dorman@elmo Reply-To: "Clark E. Dorman" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: dorman@XXXXXX Subject: To Reach the Beach Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Greetings, I am contemplating a ride to the beach (Ocean City, Bethany, or near there) next weekend and was wondering if some of you have suggestions for good roads to take. The ride will start fairly early on Saturday, and, depending on the distance either come back late on Saturday or early on Sunday ("early" depending on how Saturday night goes, of course). Constraints (desires really): 1. 4 hours or so one way. 2. generally off the highway 3. not too many lights. Something along the lines of Rt. 55 or Rt. 50 once it gets out of the city would be great. Time and distance matter far less than the riding conditions. I looked at "Maps on Us" (http://www.MapsOnUs.com/) and it suggested I use Rt. 50 -> Hwy 404 -> Hwy 16 -> Hwy 1. Does anybody have suggestions (aside from the suggestion that I'm nuts for wanting to ride in all that traffic)? -- Clark P.S. Thanks for the comments on Mobil 1. I really wasn't trying to be a jerk about it. I was just a little concerned about slippage, but anecdotally it sounds great. Frankly, I put more confidence in the combined experience of this list than commercial web pages. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 30 14:30:37 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA17336; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 14:30:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA15599; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 14:30:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ngedns.northgrum.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA28939; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 14:30:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xcgca001.xcg.northgrum.com ([132.228.123.154]) by ngedns.northgrum.com (8.8.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA19870 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 11:27:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by xcgca001.xcg.northgrum.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) id <01BC9CF4.F46FC450@XXXXXX>; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 14:29:14 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Meier, Christopher" To: "'Clark E. Dorman'" , "'dc-cycles'" Subject: RE: To Reach the Beach Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 14:29:17 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit These are the directions I use when I goto the beach. It has _very_ little traffic once you get past the Bay Bridge. I have ridden this route for years. You can open it up on the straights, BUT DO NOT SPEED THROUGH THE LITTLE TOWNS. It has a few quasi-twisties, but does end w/ about 30 mi of route 1 at the end. Time? If you cruise about 3 hrs. I have made it in 2hrs flat. But that was really moving. Also, try to avoid the bay bridge during peak times: Fri 4pm-7pm Sun 3pm-7pm Sitting on that bridge or in the toll booth backup _is not_ fun. All in all I don't think your nuts. I love riding to the beach. Hell, I would go with you if I wasn't busy all weekend. Later, and let us know how it turns out, chris Short-cut directions to Dewey Beach After Crossing the Bay Bridge, go 10mi to 301/50 split Continue straight on 301N for 8.8mi Right on 304E for 9.5mi Left on 312N for 2.3mi Right on 313S for 3.5mi Continue straight, merging onto 287E for .2mi to 311 split Continue straight again (road will turn into route 10) for 3.8mi Right on "Road 56" for 6.5mi Left on 12E for 8.5mi (passing Routes 13 & 15 splits) Right (still Route 12) for 1.4mi Go straight, merging onto Route 113 (will turn into Route 1So) for approx. 31mi (toward Rehobeth, then Dewey Beach). Bethany is another ~10mi south, Ocean City .. another ~10 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------ Christopher A. Meier meierch@XXXXXX Northrop Grumman Corporation, Washington DC, USA 1994 RF900R AMA #470094 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------ >---------- >From: Clark E. Dorman[SMTP:dorman@XXXXXX] >Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 1997 1:59 PM >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Cc: dorman@XXXXXX >Subject: To Reach the Beach > > >Greetings, > > I am contemplating a ride to the beach (Ocean City, Bethany, or >near there) next weekend and was wondering if some of you have suggestions >for good roads to take. The ride will start fairly early on Saturday, >and, depending on the distance either come back late on Saturday or early >on Sunday ("early" depending on how Saturday night goes, of course). > >Constraints (desires really): > 1. 4 hours or so one way. > 2. generally off the highway > 3. not too many lights. >Something along the lines of Rt. 55 or Rt. 50 once it gets out of the city >would be great. Time and distance matter far less than the riding >conditions. > >I looked at "Maps on Us" (http://www.MapsOnUs.com/) and it suggested I >use Rt. 50 -> Hwy 404 -> Hwy 16 -> Hwy 1. > >Does anybody have suggestions (aside from the suggestion that I'm nuts for >wanting to ride in all that traffic)? > >-- >Clark > >P.S. Thanks for the comments on Mobil 1. I really wasn't trying to be a >jerk about it. I was just a little concerned about slippage, but >anecdotally it sounds great. Frankly, I put more confidence in the >combined experience of this list than commercial web pages. > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 30 14:34:24 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA17415; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 14:34:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA16148; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 14:34:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from goliath.intelsol.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA29063; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 14:34:01 -0400 (EDT) From: sbeck@XXXXXX Received: by goliath.intelsol.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.06 (346.8 3-18-1997)) id 852564E4.0065A517 ; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 14:30:13 -0400 X-Lotus-FromDomain: ISI To: Loupil@XXXXXX, askstephen@XXXXXX, philipa@XXXXXX, anniem@XXXXXX, baldwin2@XXXXXX, saturnsr1@XXXXXX, remenick@XXXXXX, Biker413@XXXXXX, syswsb@XXXXXX, bill.maggs@XXXXXX, billsch@XXXXXX, blase.morgan@XXXXXX, bmonaco@XXXXXX, tobias@XXXXXX, botcher1@XXXXXX, bdouglas@XXXXXX, BWEINER@XXXXXX, Chris.Kleponis@XXXXXX, cnorloff@XXXXXX, dorman@XXXXXX, jonesw@XXXXXX, cfagan@XXXXXX, conteh@XXXXXX, hintze@XXXXXX, dale@XXXXXX, dutchd@XXXXXX, hacker@XXXXXX, davenunn@XXXXXX, dotis@XXXXXX, dstrout@XXXXXX, creativ3@XXXXXX, manteid@XXXXXX, BKVA1@XXXXXX, bellomo@XXXXXX, Cooper@XXXXXX, Edward_Shea@XXXXXX, ecrosen@XXXXXX, fsupik@XXXXXX, gcraddoc@XXXXXX, GRALNGAA@XXXXXX, HDWarp80@XXXXXX, hmanell@XXXXXX, hugo1200@XXXXXX, jchi@XXXXXX, bsajim@XXXXXX, jlevine@XXXXXX, levine97@XXXXXX, jckozyn@XXXXXX, jeffp@XXXXXX, engine14@XXXXXX, jimb@XXXXXX, jimi@XXXXXX, Joe_Snider@XXXXXX, jcclaman@XXXXXX, jschaaf@XXXXXX, WeinsteJ@XXXXXX, jrduffy@XXXXXX, soukupj@XXXXXX, kbour@XXXXXX, larry_wilson@XXXXXX, linda.tanner@XXXXXX, louieb386@XXXXXX, louis@XXXXXX, mackinto@XXXXXX, elliottm@XXXXXX, matthew_farina@XXXXXX, mjhayes@XXXXXX, mducey@XXXXXX, mdow@XXXXXX, kmlee@XXXXXX, morris@XXXXXX, mxc11@XXXXXX, nicholsn@XXXXXX, padoug@XXXXXX, pwwisnes@XXXXXX, pdenno@XXXXXX, Pcoleman@XXXXXX, penneyps@XXXXXX, 74537.1737@XXXXXX, Randy.Chartier@XXXXXX, RFRAER@XXXXXX, RichDe@XXXXXX, darden@XXXXXX, spak@XXXXXX, sbeck@XXXXXX, scotje@XXXXXX, slarrab@XXXXXX, SRFox@XXXXXX, steeleg@XXXXXX, 103126.2533@XXXXXX, steveb@XXXXXX, STEVE_JOHNSON@XXXXXX, higdont@XXXXXX, thomas_meeker@XXXXXX, botcher@XXXXXX, Tracy-Minter@XXXXXX, VZO1@XXXXXX, wrohara@XXXXXX, wjm1@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Message-ID: <852564E4.00655898.00@goliath.intelsol.com> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 14:30:06 -0400 Subject: Sunday ride reminder Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Here is a reminder for a ride this Sunday Aug 3. OK all you CAMS, CAMMETTES, DC-CYCLERS and any other individuals that might end up getting this message. On Sunday August 3 the White Rose Motorcycle Club is having an All Star Pro National Hill Climb at their clubgrounds in Spring Grove PA. This is a really fun event. Riders compete to see who can get up the hill the fastest. Each rider gets two tries in each class. Fastest rider to the top is the winner. Most of the bikes are highly modified, nitro burning, 3 foot extended swingarm, monsters with chains or paddles on the rear tires. Lots of old Triumphs, BSA's, Harleys and a smattering of 2 stroke modern dirt bikes and even some old 2 stroke, 3 cylinder Kawi's at times. The racing starts at 1:00 pm. The distance from Northern Virginia is approximately 100 miles. We'll be meeting at the usual place (Fairfax Silver Diner) on Sunday morning and leaving no later than 9:00 AM. The ride up will be about 2.5 to 3 hours. Please arrive with a full tank of gas. And if you decide to bring refreshments along, make sure you have no glass and no beverages in glass bottles (They don't permit them at the clubgrounds). Coolers are limited to 16 by 16 inches at biggest point. They do sell the standard Hot dogs, Hamburgers, fries, chips and sodas as usual. And they also have some very good fried fish sandwiches that they seem to take a lot of pride in. So if you would like to attend a fun and exciting event, please consider coming along. Steve Beck From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 30 15:24:54 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA19379; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 15:24:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA17697; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 15:24:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from alumni.umbc.edu by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA03470; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 15:24:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from pverst1@localhost) by alumni.umbc.edu (8.8.5/Alumni) id PAA29533 for dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 15:26:26 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 15:26:26 -0400 (EDT) From: The Flying Dutchman Message-Id: <199707301926.PAA29533@alumni.umbc.edu> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: To Reach the Beach "Meier, Christopher" strongly advised: * * You can open it up on the straights, BUT DO NOT SPEED * THROUGH THE LITTLE TOWNS. * Remember this. These little towns prey on OC traffic. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 30 15:44:34 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA20201; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 15:44:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA18239; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 15:44:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ias1.iacnet.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA05286; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 15:44:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from circus.med.iacnet.com by ias1.iacnet.com (PMDF V5.0-5 #16455) id <01ILUPXP7U0W001SHB@XXXXXX> for dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 15:43:55 -0500 (EST) Received: by circus.med.iacnet.com ((IBM OS/2 SENDMAIL VERSION 1.3.14/1.0) id AA7590; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 15:42:48 -0400 Received: from IACNET with "Lotus Notes Mail Gateway for SMTP" id 4CE702EB1EB859C1882564E4006C55D1; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 15:39:32 +0000 Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 12:45:20 +0000 From: Jay Levine Subject: Re: Sunday ride reminder To: sbeck Cc: Loupil , askstephen , philipa , anniem , baldwin2 , saturnsr1 , remenick , Biker413 , syswsb , "bill.maggs" , billsch , "blase.morgan" , bmonaco , tobias , botcher1 , bdouglas , BWEINER , "Chris.Kleponis" , cnorloff , dorman , jonesw , cfagan , conteh , hintze , dale , dutchd , hacker , davenunn , dotis , dstrout , creativ3 , manteid , BKVA1 , bellomo , Cooper , Edward_Shea , ecrosen , fsupik , gcraddoc , GRALNGAA , HDWarp80 , hmanell , hugo1200 , jchi , bsajim , jlevine , levine97 , jckozyn , jeffp , engine14 , jimb , jimi , Joe_Snider , jcclaman , jschaaf , WeinsteJ , jrduffy , soukupj , kbour , larry_wilson , "linda.tanner" , louieb386 , louis , mackinto , elliottm , matthew_farina , mjhayes , mducey , mdow , kmlee , morris , mxc11 , nicholsn , padoug , pwwisnes , pdenno , Pcoleman , penneyps , "74537.1737" <74537@XXXXXX>, "Randy.Chartier" , RFRAER , RichDe , darden , spak , sbeck , scotje , slarrab , SRFox , steeleg , "103126.2533" <103126@XXXXXX>, steveb , STEVE_JOHNSON , higdont , thomas_meeker , botcher , Tracy-Minter , VZO1 , wrohara , wjm1 , dc-cycles Message-id: <9707301942.AA7590@circus.med.iacnet.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: Text/Plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Plz, if you have either levine97@XXXXXX or jlevine@XXXXXX on your list--I no longer live in the WashDC area and would appriciate the removeal of my above mentioned email addresses from your lists. thanks for your help in reducing my email backlog.... jay From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 30 17:07:25 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id RAA22613; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 17:07:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id RAA20264; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 17:07:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from server2.illuminet.net by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id RAA11619; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 17:07:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mbegeman.erols.com (man-as3s19.erols.com [207.172.73.146]) by server2.illuminet.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA28949 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 17:40:11 -0400 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970730210736.0068d7a4@illuminet.net> X-Sender: mrider@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 17:07:36 -0400 To: DC-Cycles List From: Leon Begeman Subject: Re: Electrics Question (was: Cold weather riding) At 15:29 30-07-97 EST, McLoone, William J. wrote: > >Has any Electrics user had an experience where the Electrics failed? Not often, maybe 2 or 3 times a year. >One of >the benefits of Electrics is that you don't need to pack all the layers but >if the Electrics fail I can see being stuck in the cold with no way to warm >up. Any thoughts? It's disconcerting the first time, suddenly its 15-20 degrees colder than you planned on or dressed for. It's no different than getting caught out at night without a jacket in the summertime. If it's a short ride, continue on and stop to warm up if needed. Otherwise find a way to fix it. >Is my concern legitimate? Absolutely. I carry a small screwdriver and something to check the wiring. Lately the Radio Shack pocket multimeter works for the latter. With Widder equipment, the connectors will sometimes need to be tightened. I have also had the wire break where it connects to the connector. In both cases, the solution is to remove the wire, strip it and reconnect it. > Do you pack warm cloths as a >back up? Yes, but it's not just for a failure of the electrics, it's to supplement them when the weather turns colder or wet. Sometimes I carry a couple of extra connectors, if I have one I will also carry an extra connector cord. Usually I just fix what's broke at the next rest stop. Leon Begeman (703) 590-9073 13391 Packard Dr., Dale City, VA 22193 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 30 19:06:30 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id TAA24347; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 19:06:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id TAA21980; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 19:06:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from medlantic.mhg.edu by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id TAA17442; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 19:06:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by medlantic.mhg.edu id AA00063 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for dc-cycles@XXXXXX); Wed, 30 Jul 1997 19:06:00 -0400 Message-Id: <199707302306.AA00063@medlantic.mhg.edu> Received: by medlantic.mhg.edu (Protected-side Proxy Mail Agent-1); Wed, 30 Jul 1997 19:06:00 -0400 From: "McLoone, William J." To: DC-Cycles List Subject: Re: DC Licensing and such. Date: Wed, 30 Jul 97 11:08:00 EST Encoding: 30 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 > To get M from scratch, I had to get MC learner permit then take driver >test, MSF course or not (which I had). (This is different from MD, VA, >where MSF is said to substitute for test). Appx 3 weeks between getting >permit and test appt. >Bill Swanson EN500LTD The above paragraph from Bill's recent DC Licensing post is not entirely correct. In MD, I can't speak on VA, the MSF course does not substitute for the MVA Practical test. However, if you have had your permit for at least 2 weeks, by passing the written test and paying your fee, and you pass the MSF course, you are able to take the state test on site with the MSF motorcycles. They arrange for a state examiner to come out and set up the course for the MSF graduates. Then all you need to do is take you permit and practical test score card to MVA to get your MC license. I know this may seem a little nit picky but I wanted to make sure that mis-information wasn't spread. Now that I said this I'm realizing I took my course several years ago, if this is no longer the case, someone please politely correct me. Bill (Moses) McLoone '82 Suzuki GS-450TXz (SOLD) '81 Yamaha XS-11H (SOLD) Silver Spring, MD USA '82 Kawasaki KZ-750E (Blizzard) 1-800-AMA-JOIN Blue Knights-MD I "Ride with Pride" "Ride No Faster Than Your Guardian Angel Can Fly." - Kathryn Voth From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 30 23:25:06 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id XAA28932; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 23:25:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id XAA23917; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 23:24:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pafosu1.hq.af.mil by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id XAA01029; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 23:24:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from gnissley@localhost) by pafosu1.hq.af.mil (8.6.12/8.6.12) id XAA28256; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 23:20:10 -0400 Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 23:11:22 +45722824 (EDT) From: "Gil M. Nissley" Subject: RE: Year Round Riding To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970729111310.006733c8@illuminet.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 29 Jul 1997, Leon Begeman wrote: > With a few important exceptions, a bad day riding is better than a good day > doing almost anything else. Besides, any fool can ride in July, it takes a > special kind of fool to ride in January. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Reminds me of New Years Day '93.I was home on leave and spent the night at a friend's house for a party.I was riding my dad's XL600 and left it outside overnight in single digit temps.The combo of the cold,my hangover, and the fact that the bike is a bear to start on a good day caused me to spend 45 min trying to get it (kick)started.And then the bastard stalled on me a couple blocks later! The official BuellBoy Genes model. gnissley@XXXXXX GATB#1121 HSB#38DT Buell S1 Lightning "The Pretty Hate Machine" From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 30 23:41:33 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id XAA29027; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 23:41:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id XAA24060; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 23:41:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.his.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id XAA01759; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 23:41:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dale (pm9-163.his.com [205.252.121.163]) by mail.his.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id XAA04115 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 23:41:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33E00906.73D8@his.com> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 23:39:50 -0400 From: Dale Coyner Reply-To: dale@XXXXXX Organization: Appalachian Highways X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Moto & non-moto related Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks: First the non-moto question: Does anyone work for or know someone who works for a newspaper? Thanks. Moto-related #1: Couple of weeks ago I did a Bun Burner run from Dallas to the local area. It was a blast, and mostly uneventful with a couple of minor exceptions. If you've ever entertained the idea of doing a long run, I encourage you to give it a shot. Mike Kneebone maintains an excellent site on the subject at www.ironbutt.com. Once the Iron Butt Assocation accepts my ride documentation, I'll send them my detailed account of the ride for public consumption. Moto-related #2: Is Jerry Smith still publishing Winding Roads Motorcycle Times? Haven't been to a bike shop lately so I haven't seen one in a while. thanks d. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 31 05:26:42 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id FAA02120; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 05:26:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id FAA27082; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 05:26:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from portal.visa.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id FAA07059; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 05:26:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by portal.visa.com id (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for dc-cycles@XXXXXX); Thu, 31 Jul 1997 02:26:14 -0700 Received: by portal.visa.com (Protected-side Proxy Mail Agent-1); Thu, 31 Jul 1997 02:26:14 -0700 Received: by portal.visa.com (Protected-side Proxy Mail Agent-0); Thu, 31 Jul 1997 02:26:14 -0700 Message-Id: X-Ms-Tnef-Correlator: From: "Jordan, Michael" To: DC-Cycles List Subject: RE: DC Licensing and such. Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 01:21:49 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 Encoding: 5 TEXT, 37 UUENCODE X-Ms-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00 >In MD, I can't speak on VA, the MSF course does not substitute for the MVA Practical test. In VA it does - still need to take the written test, though... begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(C8(`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0F `0`A````-S0Q,$$P M-40U0C Y1#$Q,3DQ1C0P,# P1C8S0D-"1#8``0``@0`0`` M`&4```!)3DU$+$E#04Y44U!%04M/3E9!+%1(14U31D-/55)3141/15-.3U13 M54)35$E4551%1D]25$A%359!4%)!0U1)0T%,5$535$E.5D%)5$1/15,M4U1) M3$Q.145$5$]404M%5$A%``````,`$! !`````P`1$ ,````"`0D0`0```!D! M```5`0``90$``$Q:1G74P9GA`P`*`')C<&1!FX6P=6)S=>='46 M@" "$ 7 &),84/@@4'(`T!I0%V #(!: _1I +A23%E46,0K "H0*@&\6T1M1 M&F 9="T7L!I0;-4#(&X)X&08@&\8@!?P^QBP&))W!1 "0 GP'!,8%```!```` M`0`````````>``J "" &``````# ````````1@`````XA0```0````$````` M`````P`F```````#`#8```````(!^3\!````'@````````#`````````-RG0,C 0A :M+D(`"LOX8(!```` M`````"X````>`/H_`0```!4```!3>7-T96T@061M:6YI`#T``0````4```!213H@``````L`*0``````"P`C M```````"`7\``0```#X````\8SU54R5A/5\E<#U6:7-A)6P]5DE302].04U% F4DE#02\P,# X1C U,$!M X-Ms-Tnef-Correlator: From: "Jordan, Michael" To: "Brian S. Smith" , "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: RE: GPz1100--End of Story (I hope!) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 01:34:34 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 Encoding: 23 TEXT, 44 UUENCODE X-Ms-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00 >Because the fuse failed by slow melting rather than "blowing,"< ... >Here a flash of great insight (or good fortune!) and observation that one of the main fuse terminals has very slight corrosion.< Bad electrical connection=higher resistance. Resistance+electricity=heat (see section on electric vests, handgrips, etc) Good reminder here to look for the simple stuff when troubleshooting a problem. Michael Jordan '86 SRX-6 '93 GSX 1100GP AMA IBA etc. begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(C<(`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0F `0`A````-T$Q,$$P M-40U0C Y1#$Q,3DQ1C0P,# P1C8S0D-"1#8`#@C$Q,# M+45N9"!O9B!3=&]R>2 H22!H;W!E M(2D``@%Q``$````6`````;R=C),(7: 0>PE;$=&1] ``]CO+U@```P`&$*]$#``<0=0$``!X`"! !````90```$)%0T%54T542$5&55-%1D%)3$5$0EE3 M3$]7345,5$E.1U)!5$A%4E1(04XB0DQ/5TE.1RPB/$A%4D5!1DQ!4TA/1D=2 M14%424Y324=(5"A/4D=/3T1&3U)454Y%*4%.1$]"4T4``````P`0$ $````# M`!$0`0````(!"1 !````,0(``"T"```<`P``3%I&=0Z2P]X#``H` ;'0+@/!G(')A%U$% MP!=0`Y'.(@)@&* 9$2PB%),65>T0H#P*H@J +AP`&Z05_#9(!) 7,&$7@ M@ M$&KQT%@L$D+YM"X '0 0@ M$$ $('8$D/\88A\#!:$#8 "0`B <(!K/\QO1&Z1"81@P&. 6D040=Q;P`R % MH&X@,!:@(4$]7F@?`1F1"7 `D',!D&ZL8V4<)1ND4BKG*RD&V&ET>2I0'I(H M$' 7,#\0<"H#(<$H]R6A*Q!S+#\E82"0"< %("_1$(!C*?TH"DTT-X-,00!C@($H%L&0`R@%%Q89&Z01,0`^L ````,` M@!#_____"P`#@ @@!@``````P ```````$8``````X4`````__\#``6 "" & M``````# ````````1@`````0A0````````,``( (( 8``````, ```````!& M`````%*%``"W#0``'@`!@ @@!@``````P ```````$8`````5(4```$````$ M````."XP``,``H (( 8``````, ```````!&``````&%````````"P`$@ @@ M!@``````P ```````$8`````#H4````````#``: "" &``````# ```````` M1@`````1A0````````,`!X (( 8``````, ```````!&`````!B%```````` M'@`(@ @@!@``````P ```````$8`````-H4```$````!`````````!X`"8 ( M( 8``````, ```````!&`````#>%```!`````0`````````>``J "" &```` M``# ````````1@`````XA0```0````$``````````P`F```````#`#8````` M``(!^3\!````'@````````# M`````````-RG0,C 0A :M+D(`"LOX8(!`````````"X````>`/H_`0```!4` M``!3>7-T96T@061M:6YI`#T` M`0````4```!213H@``````L`*0``````"P`C```````"`7\``0```#X````\ M8SU54R5A/5\E<#U6:7-A)6P]5DE302].04U%4DE#02\P,# X1C U,T!M In-Reply-To: <2262E03301BD1110@xgate.usia.gov> Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 8:11:52 -0400 From: "Adams, Bill" Sender: "Adams, Bill" X-Confirm-Reading-To: Disposition-Notification-To: Organization: USIA To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: To Reach the Beach Importance: High MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-disposition: inline Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Connect2-SMTP 4.30A MHS/SMF to SMTP Gateway I would guess from your question that you are not familiar with this area and certainly not familiar with the beaches. Most direct route: US 50 East. Get on and haul ass until you hit water in Ocean City Better for the psyche: US 50 to 404, haul ass till you hit water in Bethany. This being said, there are some things to know. Ocean City is basicly trailer park blue collar beer swigging bacchanalia. The further north you go, the quieter it gets, til you get to Lewes, Del. and run out of beach. Yer best bet for pure beachiness are the state park beaches of Delaware, which are more or less in their natural state. There's only the one highway up and down the coast, so you can't get lost out there. Even better for the psyche: Avoid the beaches and spend the weekend tooling around the Eastern Shore to places like Oxford, St. Michaels, Salisbury, etc. and you'll find a whole culture and way of life that you'd miss entirely by travelling just to the beach. Bill Adams 3D Artist/Animator '66 Land Rover S2A 109 Diesel Station Wagon, '81 Honda Goldwing 1100 Standard: "Practicing the ancient oriental art of ren-ching" From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 31 09:59:39 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA03825; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 09:59:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA02382; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 09:59:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from medlantic.mhg.edu by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA15407; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 09:59:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by medlantic.mhg.edu id AB11642 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for dc-cycles@XXXXXX); Thu, 31 Jul 1997 09:59:17 -0400 Message-Id: <199707311359.AB11642@medlantic.mhg.edu> Received: by medlantic.mhg.edu (Protected-side Proxy Mail Agent-1); Thu, 31 Jul 1997 09:59:17 -0400 From: "McLoone, William J." To: George Howell Cc: DC-Cycles List Subject: Re: DC Licensing and such. Date: Thu, 31 Jul 97 09:52:00 EST Encoding: 25 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 >>Now that I said this I'm realizing I took my course several years ago, if >>this is no longer the case, someone please politely correct me. >It sounds mostly accurate, except for the two week break. I think you >don't need to wait two weeks before taking the licensing test (after >passing the MSF test). Of course, I could be wrong, also. When I took the >MSF, I only had about 10 days until the expiration of my learners:) >George Howell..georgehowell@XXXXXX George, you are correct, perhaps I didn't explain myself clearly. To make it easy for people who don't have their own motorcycles, the MD MSF program arranges for a state examiner to administer the state practical exam for those students who completed the MSF course successfully. However, since Maryland requires you to have a permit at least two weeks before taking the practical exam, you must meet this requirement to take the state test at that time. This means that if you want to take advantage of using the MSF motorcycles and gear for taking he state practical exam that is offered after completing the MSF course, you need to get your permit a couple of weeks before the course. Bill McLoone From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 31 10:26:14 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA04128; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 10:26:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA03409; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 10:25:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from minet.marriott.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA16647; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 10:25:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mih.marriott.com by minet.marriott.com (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA78800; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 10:20:34 -0400 Received: from ccMail by mih.marriott.com (ccMail Link to SMTP R6.00.02) id AA870359447; Thu, 31 Jul 97 10:30:48 -0500 Message-Id: <9707318703.AA870359447@mih.marriott.com> X-Mailer: ccMail Link to SMTP R6.00.02 Date: Thu, 31 Jul 97 10:29:14 -0500 From: "Mehran Firouzbakht" To: Subject: Rookie MCP Cop Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I got pulled over this morning by a young Rookie Cop in civilian clothes telling me that motorcycles are not allowed on the HOV lane. When I asked him to read the signs or call in and ask a pro about the traffic laws in MD, he paused for a second. Then he decided to make a fool of himself by not admitting that he was wrong. Instead he asked me to stay off the HOV lane or he would give me a ticket. I asked him to follow me a little further down the road so I could show him the sign where it says "Motorcycles OK." He got angry with me and told me to stay off the HOV lane then returned to his car without ever asking me for my license or anything. I was in such a rush to get to work that I didn't have the time to sit there and argue with him anyway. I didn't even get his badge number or anything. Go figure. Has anyone ever had an experience like this? Mehran FZR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 31 10:53:11 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA04437; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 10:53:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA04349; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 10:52:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from DONALD.CDER.FDA.GOV by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA17675; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 10:52:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mr.cder.fda.gov by fdaserv.cder.fda.gov (PMDF V5.1-8 #9595) id <01ILVTY0GIZ49285VV@XXXXXX> for dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 10:53:22 EDT Received: with PMDF-MR; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 10:51:29 -0400 (EDT) MR-Received: by mta DONALD; Relayed; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 10:51:29 -0400 Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 10:51:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Kirk Roy Subject: Re: Ride this Saturday (August 2) to central VA/WV To: DC Cycles Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 10:51:36 -0400 (EDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal Sensitivity: Company-Confidential UA-content-id: E184IYM2BV4U X400-MTS-identifier: [;92150113707991/1858227@FDACD] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 1 While the 400+ miles we'll take Saturday should discourage any less experienced riders I think I should point out that these are not good roads for beginners. Unbeknownst to me (he didn't mention his experience level), I brought a beginner on US250 a couple of weeks ago. He was very nervous once the twisties started up. On one corner he got scared, stood the bike up, and went down along the side of the road. We checked out the bike and got back on the road and he did the same thing about 4 corners further down. That was no fun. One of the guys on the ride needed to be home early so he escorted the unfortunate guy home. Just FYI, Kirk >Gang, Kirk and I are planning a ride for this Saturday to central VA >and WV. It looks like we will head to either Harrisonburg or >Staunton and then travel west into West Virginia. I'd like to leave >fairly early (between 9:00 and 9:30) so that we can make a day of >great riding. Anyone that wants to go let me know. Round trip should >be somewhere in the 400 mile range. Since I'm only about one exit >from I-66 we can meet at my house and leave from there. Routes >getting there and back are still up in the air so any suggestions are >welcome. Looking at the weather channel homepage Saturdays forecast >for the ride is as follows: > >Washington DC: partly cloudy High 93 >Harrisonburg VA: Partly Cloudy High 90 >Elkins, WV: Partly Cloudy High 86 > >Glenn Dysart >DysarGB@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 31 11:37:17 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA05013; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 11:37:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA06106; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 11:36:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from goliath.intelsol.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA19919; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 11:36:49 -0400 (EDT) From: sbeck@XXXXXX Received: by goliath.intelsol.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.06 (346.8 3-18-1997)) id 852564E5.00560318 ; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 11:39:28 -0400 X-Lotus-FromDomain: ISI To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Message-ID: <852564E5.0055ED14.00@goliath.intelsol.com> Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 11:39:23 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII . I got pulled over this morning by a young Rookie Cop in civilian clothes telling me that motorcycles are not allowed on the HOV lane. When I asked him to read the signs or call in and ask a pro about the traffic laws in MD, he paused for a second. Then he decided to make a fool of himself by not admitting that he was wrong. Instead he asked me to stay off the HOV lane or he would give me a ticket. I asked him to follow me a little further down the road so I could show him the sign where it says "Motorcycles OK." He got angry with me and told me to stay off the HOV lane then returned to his car without ever asking me for my license or anything. I was in such a rush to get to work that I didn't have the time to sit there and argue with him anyway. I didn't even get his badge number or anything. Go figure. Has anyone ever had an experience like this? Mehran FZR Well I guess that's what you get when you send a little boy out to do a mans job. It's too bad you did'nt get this little boys name and badge number. A complaint to his superior might do this mental midget some good. - No! Probably not. Did you know that if you score too high on an IQ test, they consider you to be too smart to be a cop? Mental dullards on a power trip! Just the type of person we need enforcing the laws of the country. NOT!!! From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 31 11:56:19 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA05325; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 11:56:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA06362; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 11:55:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.clark.net by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA20868; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 11:55:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from clark.net (tobias@XXXXXX [168.143.0.7]) by mail.clark.net (8.8.5/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA18370; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 11:55:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (tobias@localhost) by clark.net (8.8.5/8.7.1) with SMTP id LAA06203; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 11:55:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: clark.net: tobias owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 11:55:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Bob Tobias To: Mehran Firouzbakht cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Rookie MCP Cop In-Reply-To: <9707318703.AA870359447@mih.marriott.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 31 Jul 1997, Mehran Firouzbakht wrote: > > I got pulled over this morning by a young Rookie Cop in civilian > clothes telling me that motorcycles are not allowed on the HOV lane. > When I asked him to read the signs or call in and ask a pro about the [ snip ] > me for my license or anything. I was in such a rush to get to work > that I didn't have the time to sit there and argue with him anyway. I > didn't even get his badge number or anything. Go figure. Has anyone > ever had an experience like this? In case anyone does have another experience of this type, might I suggest the following, slightly modified response: "Gee, officer, I really thought it was OK for me to ride in the HOV lanes and I'm sorry you had to stop and tell me that it wasn't. I will certainly move out of these lanes immediately and stay out of them until I can be absolutely certain when it is OK for motorcycles to use them. Please have a nice day." (IMHO) Regards, Bob Tobias =========================================================================== Phone: (301) 897-8859 Fax: (301) 897-5354 e-mail: tobias@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 31 12:42:49 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA05875; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 12:42:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA07051; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 12:42:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp1.erols.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA23208; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 12:42:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LOCALNAME (frd-as1s22.erols.com [207.172.110.22]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA17888; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 12:42:49 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 12:42:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970731124415.0cdf4f2c@pop.erols.com> X-Sender: squeaks@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Bob Tobias , Mehran Firouzbakht From: Squeakers Subject: Re: Rookie MCP Cop Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >In case anyone does have another experience of this type, might I suggest >the following, slightly modified response: > >"Gee, officer, I really thought it was OK for me to ride in the HOV lanes >and I'm sorry you had to stop and tell me that it wasn't. I will >certainly move out of these lanes immediately and stay out of them until >I can be absolutely certain when it is OK for motorcycles to use them. >Please have a nice day." > Lets see. The man has a legal right to be in the HOV lane. Gets pulled over by an over eager newbie cop that thinks his badge is his substitute dick (since he obviously doesnt have a REAL one to begin with) and you want him to.....No. I cant even write it, much less ever actually think of doing it. The cop learned a lesson. The fact that he didnt even ask to see a license, and walked away in a huff, would seem to indicate that he would definitely be looking at the signs. ( while trying to not be too obvious about it) So, he wont be pulling anyone else over for THAT "infraction" again. Telling him "Golly Gee officer, Im sorry" would only have served to make YOU out to be a gutless sheep. It wouldnt have taught that Rookie asshole anything. America was built and made strong on the premise of NEVER giving up your rights. We dont (or for Gods sake SHOULDNT!!) bow down and grovel to ANYONE. That includes Rookie Cops. He was wrong. He needed to be TOLD he was wrong. He was. He left. He learned. Case closed. Squeakers From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 31 12:55:13 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA05996; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 12:55:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA07187; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 12:54:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dadc012.army.mil by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA23699; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 12:54:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by dadc012.army.mil with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) id <01BC9DB0.E35D2AB0@XXXXXX>; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 12:54:31 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Dysart, Glenn B., Mr., IMCEN" To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" , "'Mehran Firouzbakht'" Subject: RE: Rookie MCP Cop Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 12:54:31 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 Encoding: 25 TEXT I had a similar thing happen years ago in my cage. The light up the street from my house has a right turn lane with a yield sign. As I approached the intersection I slowed, looked to the left, saw nothing coming and proceeded. I saw the officer in the parking lot of the shopping center next to the traffic light pull out after me. By the time he pulled me over we were out of site of the said intersection. He informed me that I ran a right turn on red. I told him there was a yield sign at that intersection. He then asked me if I had been drinking. Of course I hadn't. After he checked my license and such he said that he was going to give me the benefit of the doubt and not give me a ticket. What a nice guy. Glenn Dysart DysarGB@XXXXXX 84 V30 Magna > >> I got pulled over this morning by a young Rookie Cop in civilian >> clothes telling me that motorcycles are not allowed on the HOV lane. >> When I asked him to read the signs or call in and ask a pro about the >> traffic laws in MD, he paused for a second. Then he decided to make a >> fool of himself by not admitting that he was wrong. Instead he asked > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 31 13:00:19 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA06081; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:00:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA07247; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 12:59:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx05.erols.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA23796; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 12:59:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp3 (smtp3.erols.com [205.252.116.103]) by mx05.erols.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/MX-mnd) with ESMTP id MAA14969 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 12:50:06 -0400 Received: from bergie.erols.com (bergie.erols.com [207.96.57.227]) by smtp3 (8.8.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA13732 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 12:50:04 -0400 Message-Id: <199707311650.MAA13732@smtp3> From: "Bergie Frazier Jr" To: "'DC Cycles'" Subject: MIR EVENT SUNDAY Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 12:49:23 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just a reminder that this coming Sunday is the great all-motorcycle event at Maryland International Raceway. All day for $15.00, you can burn the /4 mile track for time trials from 10am to 2pm for all street bikes, and if you want to try your hand at some bracket racing style drag racing, there will be several street-bike-oriented classes with a take home prize of up to $2,000.00. Elimination's begin at 2:00pm. Anyone interested in meeting our group there let me know. We're going, we're running the track, and we're bringing the video camera! :-) Bergie Frazier, Jr., Owner Paragon Consulting 4451 Brookfield Corporate Drive, Suite 112 Chantilly, VA 20151-1693 TEL: 703-968-3023 FAX: 703-968-3025 EMAIL: bergie@XXXXXX WWW: paragon-consulting.com FTP: 207.96.57.227 STORE HOURS: 9AM-6PM Monday-Thursday, Friday 9-3pm From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 31 13:08:46 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA06225; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:08:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA07435; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:08:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from epsilon.nova.org by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA24332; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:08:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (pierre@localhost) by epsilon.nova.org (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id NAA25818; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:08:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: epsilon.nova.org: pierre owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:08:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas Piergallini To: Mehran Firouzbakht cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Rookie MCP Cop In-Reply-To: <9707318703.AA870359447@mih.marriott.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII this would be a fantasy come true for me. the opportunity to say, "F*ck you officer, kiss my ass, you are wrong" and then to get on my bike and drive away laughing is surreal. Course your registration and license and inspection and insurance and parking tickets and everything better be as clean as a whistle before the attempt. Which unfortunately means I would have to take the cowardly sycophant route as described in a earlier note to this message. :-( -pierre Thomas Piergallini VxMail: 703-208-3961 SkyMail:5497871@XXXXXX EMail: pierre@XXXXXX, pierre@XXXXXX Send me MIME mail On Thu, 31 Jul 1997, Mehran Firouzbakht wrote: > > I got pulled over this morning by a young Rookie Cop in civilian > clothes telling me that motorcycles are not allowed on the HOV lane. > When I asked him to read the signs or call in and ask a pro about the > traffic laws in MD, he paused for a second. Then he decided to make a > fool of himself by not admitting that he was wrong. Instead he asked > me to stay off the HOV lane or he would give me a ticket. I asked him > to follow me a little further down the road so I could show him the > sign where it says "Motorcycles OK." He got angry with me and told me > to stay off the HOV lane then returned to his car without ever asking > me for my license or anything. I was in such a rush to get to work > that I didn't have the time to sit there and argue with him anyway. I > didn't even get his badge number or anything. Go figure. Has anyone > ever had an experience like this? > > Mehran > FZR > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 31 13:42:37 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA06532; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:42:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA07719; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:41:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from quimby by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA25759; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:41:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jil-c_norloff by quimby (IBM OS/2 SENDMAIL VERSION 2.01/2.0) for ; id NAC154.34; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:41:03 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970731132303.009713f0@204.194.180.21> X-Sender: cnorloff@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:23:03 -0400 To: DC-Cycles List From: Chris Norloff Subject: Re: DC Licensing and such. In-Reply-To: <199707311359.AB11642@medlantic.mhg.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >To make it easy for people who don't have their own motorcycles, the MD MSF >program arranges for a state examiner to administer the state practical exam >for those students who completed the MSF course successfully. This is usually the local training center manager, and can be one of the instructors (if certified) -- I've done all those jobs in the past. > However, >since Maryland requires you to have a permit at least two weeks before >taking the practical exam, you must meet this requirement to take the state >test at that time. >This means that if you want to take advantage of using the MSF motorcycles >and gear for taking he state practical exam that is offered after >completing the MSF course, you need to get your permit a couple of weeks >before the course. Last year, this requirement was not in place. For students taking the MSF class, they only needed the learner's permit before the end of class. Practically, this meant that students could come early to the MVA on Saturday morning, get their learner's permit, and then participate in the MSF class (which we started at 9:30 Saturday mornings at Waldorf). Of course, since State bureaucracy is bad, a lot worse that the Federal bureaucracy, in fact, be sure to confirm before relying on this. Chris Norloff From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 31 13:42:37 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA06531; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:42:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA07716; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:41:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA25754; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:41:30 -0400 (EDT) From: tjoseph@XXXXXX Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA01817 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 12:40:57 -0500 (CDT) Received: from unknown(199.128.76.102) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma000765; Thu Jul 31 12:37:49 1997 Message-ID: <33E0CD45.3375@ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:37:09 -0400 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Rookie MCP Cop References: <9707318703.AA870359447@mih.marriott.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Whether an officer is wrong or not does not in any way immunize you to tell him "F*ck you officer." That is an independent offense, and if you said it you should and probably would be cited and/or arrested. I do agree that I wouldn't play the sycophant, but it's easy to politely inform the officer that he/she is wrong, and offer to drive up to a sign to prove it. One officer's arrogance and ignorance is not an excuse to display an equal amount of arrogance. As for the statement that "America was built and made strong on the premise of NEVER giving up your rights," well, that's one of those broad-brush statements that's actually inaccurate, meaningless, and inflammatory. First off, you have no right to drive on state-created roads. Driving there is a privilege, not a right. Second, we often give up our rights to better our society, and it's good that we have a society where we have the choice to waive our rights if we choose to do so. Example: Your car is pulled over for speeding. There's a similar vehicle recently spotted leaving a robbery. The officer asks to search your car. Do you have a right to say "no?" Yes, you do. Is society made any better or stronger by you asserting this right? No, I'd say it isn't. I'd waive my 4th amendment right in a heartbeat in that situation. Mindlessly "defending to the death" every right we have is headstrongly foolhardy. One of my favorite quotes is: "the First Amendment right to free speech is a limitation on government power, not an invitation to the general public." A wise person knows when to assert rights and when to waive them. But he first should know what they are. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 31 13:51:27 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA06716; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:51:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA07907; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:51:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gemini.smart.net by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA26155; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:51:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tgimer.smart.net (a2p17dyn.smart.net [206.27.243.49]) by gemini.smart.net (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA26603 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:53:00 -0400 Message-ID: <33E0D0A8.619C@no.spam.smart.net> Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:51:36 -0400 From: "Thomas H. Gimer" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Rookie MCP Cop References: <1.5.4.16.19970731124415.0cdf4f2c@pop.erols.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Squeakers wrote: > > Bob Tobias wrote: > > > >In case anyone does have another experience of this type, might I suggest > >the following, slightly modified response: > > > >"Gee, officer, I really thought it was OK for me to ride in the HOV lanes > >and I'm sorry you had to stop and tell me that it wasn't. I will > >certainly move out of these lanes immediately and stay out of them until > >I can be absolutely certain when it is OK for motorcycles to use them. > >Please have a nice day." > > > > Lets see. The man has a legal right to be in the HOV lane. Gets pulled > over by an over eager newbie cop that thinks his badge is his substitute > dick (since he obviously doesnt have a REAL one to begin with) and you want > him to.....No. I cant even write it, much less ever actually think of doing > it. The cop learned a lesson. The fact that he didnt even ask to see a > license, and walked away in a huff, would seem to indicate that he would > definitely be looking at the signs. ( while trying to not be too obvious > about it) So, he wont be pulling anyone else over for THAT "infraction" > again. Telling him "Golly Gee officer, Im sorry" would only have served to > make YOU out to be a gutless sheep. It wouldnt have taught that Rookie > asshole anything. America was built and made strong on the premise of NEVER > giving up your rights. We dont (or for Gods sake SHOULDNT!!) bow down and > grovel to ANYONE. That includes Rookie Cops. He was wrong. He needed to be > TOLD he was wrong. He was. He left. He learned. Case closed. > > Squeakers Well put, Squeakers. I'm pleased to hear there are people out there who care more about their rights than Mr. Tobias. The world has enough ass-kissers. -- Thomas H. Gimer tgimer@XXXXXX *email address shown here (not in header) is valid* From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 31 14:24:08 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA07121; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:24:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA08364; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:23:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from quackerjack.cc.vt.edu by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA27576; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:23:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sable.cc.vt.edu (sable.cc.vt.edu [128.173.16.30]) by quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA18721 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:23:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lancelot.campus.vt.edu (dam-as4s43.erols.com [207.172.137.234]) by sable.cc.vt.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id OAA10567 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:23:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970731142132.00692634@mail.vt.edu> X-Sender: mrubinst@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:21:32 +0600 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mitch Subject: Constables on Patrol Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Alright, enough already. I just want to put my two cents in to respect the police officers. They deal with the absolute worst slice of society as their job. Day in and day out, their clients consist of criminals, law breakers and disreputables. They are all human, just like you and I. Pretty much they are nice people. Now, being human, they are prone to stereotyping and making mistakes. So when they see us motorcyclists, they know that we speed and, shall we say, bend traffic laws. How do they know this? Well, they can read this list for a little while and get a pretty good sense. We all talk about our ride routes and not to speed in the small towns and how a beginner can't keep up in the twisties. They see us fly by their civilian vehicles when they are not on duty. So they will keep a close eye on us when they are on duty. Maybe they will try to get us on some really stupid technicality to make up for the fact that we weren't speeding in front of them. Personally, I always give a supporting wave or a thumbs-up whenever I pass a police car on my bike. When you're in a car, you can't do this. But when you are on a bike, people are able to see your gestures. It's nice for the cops to see that they are appreciated by some of the population. Also by doing this, they see that I respect and appreciate them and perhaps they are less likely to follow me and harrass me. I think it would be really great if everyone on motorcycles gave a thumbs up to police officers instead of a mental middle-finger. If police officers saw the thumbs up as a general mentality towards them, they may even get to like motorcyclists. Many cops are motorcyclists themselves. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in order to become a motorcyce cop, you must first have a civilian motorcycle license. Some of the instructors at the MSF are motorcycle cops. I remember reading about a ride from someone here who got out of a ticket because the cop also rode motorcycles. Now, I'm not defending harrassment by police officers. I'm just saying that it's that 10% that ruins everything. That rookie cop will learn. It goes to your head when you suddenly hold a great deal of power over other people. He has to learn how to handle it properly. On the issue of fighting for your rights. Hell yeah, fight for your rights with everything you've got. I don't need to get philisophical about how many men and women have died to help the populace keep their rights. It's important to not play the fool though. Anything else I should mention... Ok.. Back to the rookie cop: It is important to realize that that police officer is a public servant. He works for you. You pay his salary through your taxes. Being new to the police force, it may take him a while to come around to this philosophy. In the meanwhile, you don't need to put up with him treating you as anything less than the upstanding citizen that you are. But you have to show him by your behavior that you are an upstanding citizen deserving his respect. Treating him with disrespect is not the proper way to do this. I guess I'm done. yay cops, Mitch From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 31 14:24:11 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA07126; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:24:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA08361; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:23:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA27570; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:23:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA18852 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:22:42 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199707311822.NAA18852@dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com> Received: from vie-va7-02.ix.netcom.com(199.183.208.34) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma018752; Thu Jul 31 13:21:59 1997 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Bill Schmidt" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:21:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Rookie MCP Cop Reply-to: billsch@XXXXXX Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42a) Thomas H. Gimer wrote: > Squeakers wrote: > > > > > Bob Tobias wrote: > > > > The world has enough ass-kissers. Doesn't take much to set us off does it? A rookie cop made a mistake--but he wasn't abusive and wrote no paper. It seems like no big deal (although a mistake does make him unique in this virtual world of ours)--and were're all over the lot with male-bashing and personal insults. Very interesting. Hopefully the nice weekend will give us a chance to drain the bile that's built up in the last 3 or 4 days. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 31 14:46:30 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA07424; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:46:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA08811; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:46:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp1.erols.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA28619; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:46:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LOCALNAME (frd-as1s22.erols.com [207.172.110.22]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA09971; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:46:13 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:46:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970731144737.0cdfde7e@pop.erols.com> X-Sender: squeaks@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Thomas Piergallini , Mehran Firouzbakht From: Squeakers Subject: Re: Rookie MCP Cop Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > >this would be a fantasy come true for me. the opportunity to say, >"F*ck you officer, kiss my ass, you are wrong" and then to get on my bike >and drive away laughing is surreal. > >Course your registration and license and inspection and insurance and >parking tickets and everything better be as clean as a whistle before the >attempt. > >Which unfortunately means I would have to take the cowardly sycophant >route as described in a earlier note to this message. :-( > >-pierre > Ah, but Pierre! Under THOSE circumstances, it's not called being cowardly. Its called CYA. CYA is perfectly acceptable as a method of self preservation, doncha think? :) Squeakers From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 31 14:58:15 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA07637; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:58:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA08878; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:57:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ngedns.northgrum.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA29125; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:57:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xcgca001.xcg.northgrum.com ([132.228.123.154]) by ngedns.northgrum.com (8.8.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA15597 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 11:55:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by xcgca001.xcg.northgrum.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) id <01BC9DC1.FCBFD2D0@XXXXXX>; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:56:55 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Meier, Christopher" To: "'Mehran Firouzbakht'" , "'Bob Tobias'" Cc: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" Subject: RE: Rookie MCP Cop Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:56:44 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >---------- >From: Bob Tobias[SMTP:tobias@XXXXXX] >Sent: Thursday, July 31, 1997 11:55 AM >To: Mehran Firouzbakht >Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: Rookie MCP Cop > >In case anyone does have another experience of this type, might I suggest >the following, slightly modified response: > >"Gee, officer, I really thought it was OK for me to ride in the HOV lanes >and I'm sorry you had to stop and tell me that it wasn't. I will >certainly move out of these lanes immediately and stay out of them until >I can be absolutely certain when it is OK for motorcycles to use them. ... and you would be absolutely certain in about 5 seconds, since as soon as you started off (probably with the cop still behind you) you would see a sign that CLEARLY says .. "HOV2 & MOTORCYCLES ONLY" and the times that it applies. So what happens then? Move back into the lane, get pulled over again? sounds like a big do-loop to me. It would be much easier to POLITELY discuss the situation with the officer. 95% of a police I have met/know are very reasonable if treated with respect. Later, chris BTW, what would you do if you were traveling 55 in a 55 mph zone and an officer pulled you over and gave you a ticket that said you were going 90mph? Apologize? In both instances (the HOV and the speeding) you were NOT breaking the law. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------ Christopher A. Meier meierch@XXXXXX Northrop Grumman Corporation, Washington DC, USA 1994 RF900R AMA #470094 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 31 14:59:56 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA07660; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:59:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA08923; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:59:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emh3.arl.mil by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA29183; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:59:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccMail by emh3.arl.mil (IMA Internet Exchange v1.04) id 3e0dc740; Thu, 31 Jul 97 14:41:56 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:54:44 -0400 Message-ID: <3e0dc740@emh3.arl.mil> From: Dave_Choat@XXXXXX (Dave Choat) Subject: Re: Constables on Patrol To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part > yay cops, > Mitch Yay Mitch! Dave From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 31 15:22:29 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA08048; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 15:22:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA09832; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 15:22:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx02.erols.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA00722; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 15:22:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp3 (smtp3.erols.com [205.252.116.103]) by mx02.erols.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/MX-mnd) with ESMTP id PAA25535 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 15:16:52 -0400 Received: from bergie.erols.com (bergie.erols.com [207.96.57.227]) by smtp3 (8.8.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA00989 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 15:16:52 -0400 Message-Id: <199707311916.PAA00989@smtp3> From: "Bergie Frazier Jr" To: "'DC Cycles'" Subject: MIR HOTLINE Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 15:16:11 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit FYI: For more information on the events at M.I.R. call 301-449-RACE (7223). From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 31 16:02:23 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA08787; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:02:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA10778; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:01:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx05.erols.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA02643; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:01:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp3 (smtp3.erols.com [205.252.116.103]) by mx05.erols.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/MX-mnd) with ESMTP id PAA14475; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 15:27:09 -0400 Received: from bergie.erols.com (bergie.erols.com [207.96.57.227]) by smtp3 (8.8.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA02630; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 15:27:06 -0400 Message-Id: <199707311927.PAA02630@smtp3> From: "Bergie Frazier Jr" To: "Yates, David" Cc: "'DC Cycles'" Subject: Re: MIR Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 15:26:26 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yeah gates open @ 10 (so they say) but normally it's earlier than that. I plan to be there at 9:30am to get a good spot in the pits. I'll probably bring the truck too so we can stash the gear between runs, and bring a cooler with lunch, etc. I want to get there early. I bought a kill switch from Rick $50-60 and it's really nice. There are cheaper ones, but you know, had to go with the cool one. I have it on the bar but not wired yet. Yeah there are flyers at Rick's about MIR. I have one here, it's $21 street bike class (tags, dot tires, working lights, exhaust w/muffler, no wheelie bars or open pipes). Street bike class pays $25 if you make the finals, $50 semi finals, $100 runner up, and $250 to win. The next class is $700 win, $350 runner up, $125 semi and $50 finals. The entry fee for that is $51.00, so I won't be doing that! Too much money, especially since I spend $35 every Friday @ Old Dominion running my car. That really adds up! Rick said you're anxious to run the 1/4, so hopefully me and you can stage head-to-head a couple times during trials and practice. Rich is definitely going, but not sure about Tom on his FJ1200. You know how he is. When he finds out it actually costs $21 he probably won't go, or at least that will be his excuse. Berg ---------- > From: Yates, David > To: Bergie Frazier > Subject: RE: MIR > Date: Thursday, July 31, 1997 2:45 PM > > I called 449 Race & the track line, on the hotline they said $51 > to race for the purse, but $21 for streetbike or something to that > effect. I'm just going to do the time trial, they said they will > caution you ( no kill switch ) 1st time, > if you slow down but don't make 11.00, you get another. I figure I'll > run once or twice. Midnight madness is only $12 bucks on Fridays... > Weather looks a little toasty for > Sunday, so if we get there early, if you're going for the e.t. you'll > have to take the extra heat into account. we should get there early. > > Dave > > > ---------- > From: Bergie Frazier Jr[SMTP:bergie@XXXXXX] > Sent: Thursday, July 31, 1997 1:15 PM > To: Charles Norton III; Tom Black; Yates, David > Subject: MIR > > Yo make sure we hook up on or before Sunday. > 703-968-3023. > > Yesterday I finished tuning my bike (sync' carbs, etc). > And that tool Rick sold me is awesome! Never again > will I pay to have carbs synchronized, and my bike is > running 20X better than before. It was SOO far out > of spec it was amazing that it ran. One particular > carb was drawing triple the vacuum of the other three. > > I also changed the plugs (which were torched splitfires) > and replaced the fuel filter and cleaned the K&N (which > was nearly 80% clogged with bugs and dirt). I still need > to adjust my shifter lever, change the oil/filter, and wash > the bike of course, but other than that I'm ready. > > I'm heading up to Fast Lane now to get some oil so > I can change that before Sunday. > > Bergie Frazier, Jr., Owner > > Paragon Consulting > 4451 Brookfield Corporate Drive, Suite 112 > Chantilly, VA 20151-1693 > TEL: 703-968-3023 > FAX: 703-968-3025 > EMAIL: bergie@XXXXXX > WWW: paragon-consulting.com > FTP: 207.96.57.227 > STORE HOURS: 9AM-6PM Monday-Thursday, Friday 9-3pm > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 31 16:09:25 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA08962; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:09:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA10935; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:09:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from beta.mcit.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA03080; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:09:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from omzrelay.mcit.com (omzrelay.mcit.com [166.37.204.49]) by beta.mcit.com (8.8.6/) with ESMTP id PAA14182 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 15:06:38 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pop1a.mail.mci.com (pop1a.mail.mci.com [166.37.204.5]) by omzrelay.mcit.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA26435 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 15:06:38 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localHost ([166.41.242.141]) by pop1a.mail.mci.com (Post.Office MTA v3.0 release "turbo_2" ID# 1-123U25000L1S10) with SMTP id AAA15799 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 15:06:36 -0500 Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 15:55 -0400 (EDT) From: "Todd B Peer" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Rookie MCP Cop X-Mailer: MailRoom v2.1e Message-ID: <19970731200636.AAA15799@localHost> Political content of my own opinions, delete now if you'd rather read something about motorcycling;^) On Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:37:09 -0400 Tony wrote: >Whether an officer is wrong or not does not in any way immunize you to >tell him "F*ck you officer." That is an independent offense, and if you >said it you should and probably would be cited and/or arrested. I do >agree that I wouldn't play the sycophant, but it's easy to politely >inform the officer that he/she is wrong, and offer to drive up to a sign >to prove it. One officer's arrogance and ignorance is not an excuse to >display an equal amount of arrogance. I agree with you, absolutely. Two wrongs don't make it right, right? > As for the statement that "America was built and made strong on >the premise of NEVER giving up your rights," well, that's one of those >broad-brush statements that's actually inaccurate, meaningless, and >inflammatory. First off, you have no right to drive on state-created >roads. Driving there is a privilege, not a right. unfortunately you are technically correct. however, 'WE' are the state, it does not exist separately from 'US'. > Second, we often >give up our rights to better our society, and it's good that we have a >society where we have the choice to waive our rights if we choose to do >so. we who? you mean you! you certainly have a choice to waive your rights, but i won't! > Example: Your car is pulled over for speeding. There's a >similar vehicle recently spotted leaving a robbery. The officer asks to >search your car. Do you have a right to say "no?" Yes, you do. Is >society made any better or stronger by you asserting this right? No, >I'd say it isn't. your opinion, and i disagree. >I'd waive my 4th amendment right in a heartbeat in >that situation. Mindlessly "defending to the death" every right we have >is headstrongly foolhardy. your assuming you already knew about the bank robbery. in your example it is unlikely you do not. i think your attitude really is 'i have nothing to hide, what do i care'. i'm not advocating that you "defend to the death" your right to NOT open your trunk, but good police work warrants that you be pin-pointed as a suspect first, not just pulled over and harrassed. btw, by waiving your right to search, how does that make society any better or stronger? > One of my favorite quotes is: "the First Amendment right to free >speech is a limitation on government power, not an invitation to the >general public." A wise person knows when to assert rights and when to >waive them. But he first should know what they are. which wannabe autocrat came up with that snappy little quip? It is a limitation on government power, but by whom? the citizenry, you, me and the general public. Article 1 in the Ammendment to the Constitution of the United States of America: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. Todd From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 31 16:13:38 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA09054; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:13:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA11072; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:13:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.clark.net by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA03150; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:13:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from clark.net (tobias@XXXXXX [168.143.0.7]) by mail.clark.net (8.8.5/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA15398; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:13:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (tobias@localhost) by clark.net (8.8.5/8.7.1) with SMTP id QAA11242; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:13:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: clark.net: tobias owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:13:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Bob Tobias To: "Meier, Christopher" cc: "'Mehran Firouzbakht'" , "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" Subject: RE: Rookie MCP Cop In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 31 Jul 1997, Meier, Christopher wrote: > > >---------- > >From: Bob Tobias[SMTP:tobias@XXXXXX] > >Sent: Thursday, July 31, 1997 11:55 AM > >To: Mehran Firouzbakht > >Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > >Subject: Re: Rookie MCP Cop > > > >In case anyone does have another experience of this type, might I suggest > >the following, slightly modified response: > > > >"Gee, officer, I really thought it was OK for me to ride in the HOV lanes > >and I'm sorry you had to stop and tell me that it wasn't. I will > >certainly move out of these lanes immediately and stay out of them until > >I can be absolutely certain when it is OK for motorcycles to use them. > > > ... and you would be absolutely certain in about 5 seconds, since as > soon as you started off (probably with the cop still behind you) you > would see a sign that CLEARLY says .. "HOV2 & MOTORCYCLES ONLY" and the > times that it applies. > > So what happens then? Move back into the lane, get pulled over again? > sounds like a big do-loop to me. It would be much easier to POLITELY > discuss the situation with the officer. > > 95% of a police I have met/know are very reasonable if treated with > respect. That's kind'a what I was suggesting. > Later, > chris > > BTW, what would you do if you were traveling 55 in a 55 mph zone and an > officer pulled you over and gave you a ticket that said you were going > 90mph? Apologize? In both instances (the HOV and the speeding) you > were NOT breaking the law. Since you asked, I would say something like, "Sorry officier, I didn't think I was speeding. I'm always a careful driver and I can't understand how you measured my speed at 90 miles an hour." What would you do? Bob =========================================================================== Phone: (301) 897-8859 Fax: (301) 897-5354 e-mail: tobias@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 31 16:18:41 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA09133; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:18:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA11232; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:18:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp1.erols.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA03476; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:18:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LOCALNAME (frd-as1s22.erols.com [207.172.110.22]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA26664; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:18:50 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:18:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970731162013.0d0fb9d4@pop.erols.com> X-Sender: squeaks@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tjoseph@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Squeakers Subject: Re: Rookie MCP Cop At 01:37 PM 7/31/97 -0400, tjoseph@XXXXXX wrote: >Whether an officer is wrong or not does not in any way immunize you to >tell him "F*ck you officer." That is an independent offense, and if you >said it you should and probably would be cited and/or arrested. Well, actually, I dont recall ever saying to tell the officer to fuck off. I recall saying to tell him he was wrong. Which is what the original poster did. You can tell someone they're wrong, and not bow to "unwarranted power" WITHOUT being rude. I do >agree that I wouldn't play the sycophant, but it's easy to politely >inform the officer that he/she is wrong, and offer to drive up to a sign >to prove it. I never said differently. Perhaps before you spout off, you should actually READ what's being said. Then you wont look so ridiculous. One officer's arrogance and ignorance is not an excuse to >display an equal amount of arrogance. Standing up for yourself is being arrogant? Saying "It IS legal to ride here. Will you please follow me a bit further to the sign, and I will show you" is arrogance to you? Is it your contention that anything said in your own defense is arrogance? Shit. That only leaves giving up. You have a warped idea of what's "arrogance" and whats merely defending your legal rights. > > As for the statement that "America was built and made strong on >the premise of NEVER giving up your rights," well, that's one of those >broad-brush statements that's actually inaccurate, meaningless, and >inflammatory. First off, you have no right to drive on state-created >roads. I have no right? Im a licensed, legal tax paying citizen, and I have no right to drive ( or ride) on state roads?!?!? > Driving there is a privilege, not a right. If you've done the tests, taken the classes, gotten the licenses, paid the taxes, then it becomes your right. Did you actually READ any of the original posts before you responded with this meaningless garbage? The man was a LICENSED driver, LEGALLY riding on the HOV lane. Is that a difficult concept for you to grasp? BTW, America WAS built on defending rights, the desire for freedom from oppression, etcetc. Go to the library. Read a book. Second, we often >give up our rights to better our society, and it's good that we have a >society where we have the choice to waive our rights if we choose to do >so. So, what you're saying is....it would better society if that poor man gave up his right to ride on the HOV lane...because (Im workin on this.. gimme a sec!) well...because it would have given that Rookie cop a feel good all over warm fuzzy feeling? You lost me on this one. Giving up rights will never better society. It will only weaken individual rights. No thanks. > > Example: Your car is pulled over for speeding. There's a >similar vehicle recently spotted leaving a robbery. The officer asks to >search your car. Do you have a right to say "no?" Yes, you do. Is >society made any better or stronger by you asserting this right? No, >I'd say it isn't. Id say Hell yes, it is. Searching someone simply because someone has decided that you may perhaps fit a profile is NOT acceptable. Where would it end? Give ANYONE that kind of power, and it WILL be abused. They would find a reason to search anyone for anything. It's human nature. I'd waive my 4th amendment right in a heartbeat in >that situation. Mindlessly "defending to the death" every right we have >is headstrongly foolhardy. Mindlessly "defending to the death" ?!?!? You mean, if you exercize your rights, you're mindlessly defending your rights to the death? So, if I tell a cop that I actually DO have a legal RIGHT to be riding on an HOV lane, or if I say I will NOT submit to a search simply because a cop has decided he thinks I might possibly fit a description of someone somewhere that did whatever, Im going to be KILLED by that police officer? Wow. What HAS this country come to! > > One of my favorite quotes is: "the First Amendment right to free >speech is a limitation on government power, not an invitation to the >general public." A wise person knows when to assert rights and when to >waive them. But he first should know what they are. Give up your rights willingly, and soon you will be EXPECTED to give them up. Then they will CEASE to be rights. The more you willingly give up, the more you permanently lose. A wise person knows that rights are a precious, yet fragile entity. Hard gained, yet easily lost. Hold on to them with an iron fist. Squeakers > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 31 16:35:43 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA09425; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:35:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA12177; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:35:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ngedns.northgrum.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA04270; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:35:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xcgca001.xcg.northgrum.com ([132.228.123.154]) by ngedns.northgrum.com (8.8.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA22263 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:32:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by xcgca001.xcg.northgrum.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) id <01BC9DCF.8852F360@XXXXXX>; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:33:53 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Meier, Christopher" To: "'Bob Tobias'" Cc: "'dc-cycles'" Subject: RE: Rookie MCP Cop Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:30:57 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >---------- >From: Bob Tobias[SMTP:tobias@XXXXXX] >Sent: Thursday, July 31, 1997 4:13 PM >To: Meier, Christopher >Cc: 'Mehran Firouzbakht'; 'dc-cycles@XXXXXX' >Subject: RE: Rookie MCP Cop > >--snip-- >> Later, >> chris >> >> BTW, what would you do if you were traveling 55 in a 55 mph zone and an >> officer pulled you over and gave you a ticket that said you were going >> 90mph? Apologize? In both instances (the HOV and the speeding) you >> were NOT breaking the law. > >Since you asked, I would say something like, "Sorry officier, I didn't >think I was speeding. I'm always a careful driver and I can't understand >how you measured my speed at 90 miles an hour." > >What would you do? Oh I'd say exactly the same thing. I am very polite and cooperative with police. BUT, i was drawing a parallel and it looks as if you are trying to have it both ways. In the HOV example ... you conceded to the officer the fact that he was right even though you knew he was wrong. However, in the speeding example you do not do the same. To be the same you would have had to say "I don't know how you clocked me at that officer, but I will certainly slow it down some ..." See what I mean? Why the difference? Later, chris ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------ Christopher A. Meier meierch@XXXXXX Northrop Grumman Corporation, Washington DC, USA 1994 RF900R AMA #470094 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 31 16:38:38 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA09451; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:38:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA12254; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:38:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp1.erols.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA04578; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:38:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LOCALNAME (frd-as1s22.erols.com [207.172.110.22]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA01060; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:39:13 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:39:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970731164036.0d0fe1fe@pop.erols.com> X-Sender: squeaks@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Mitch , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Squeakers Subject: Re: Constables on Patrol > Personally, I always give a supporting wave or a thumbs-up whenever I pass >a police car on my bike. I wouldnt recommend that. They might mistake it for the OTHER salute (the one involving the middle finger) and come after you. >for the cops to see that they are appreciated by some of the population. >Also by doing this, they see that I respect and appreciate them and perhaps >they are less likely to follow me and harrass me. I wish it was that easy. Experience teaches you different. Maybe it IS only 10% of them, as you say, that are anti-bike. Unfortunately, that 10% must be able to smell people that ride, because they always seem to find us, or people we know. We belong to a local HOG group. Normal people. Not bad assed bikers. Just normal people that love to ride. We've all been followed to family picnics, on poker runs, on the way TO events, on the way HOME from events....etc. At the end of the last picnic, many people were pulled over so that the cops could check baffles on the bikes!!!!! This was a FAMILY picnic!!! The bikes were legal, so they couldnt ticket anyone, but damn, they sure wanted to. I SHOULD be getting used to it by now, but it still amazes me. I get followed for miles, and wonder why?!?!? ME! A short shit blonde on an itty bitty bike! Amazing. > Now, I'm not defending harrassment by police officers. I'm just saying >that it's that 10% that ruins everything. That rookie cop will learn. It >goes to your head when you suddenly hold a great deal of power over other >people. He has to learn how to handle it properly. He wont learn by someone saying sorry officer, I didnt realize it, when they KNOW he's wrong. The way it was handled seems to me to have been the best way. > On the issue of fighting for your rights. Hell yeah, fight for your >rights with everything you've got. I don't need to get philisophical about >how many men and women have died to help the populace keep their rights. >It's important to not play the fool though. AAARGH!!! I DIDNT say to tell him to fuck off, if that's what you're referring to. I said it was RIGHT to tell him he was wrong, and it would have been wrong to apologize to him and accept blame when you were right. Telling him to fuck off would be stupid and incredibly counter productive. I personally think it IS possible to tell someone he's wrong WITHOUT adding the "fuck off". Sometimes. Squeakers From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 31 16:51:27 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA09695; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:51:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA12566; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:51:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp2.erols.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA05321; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:51:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bergie.erols.com (bergie.erols.com [207.96.57.227]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA04468 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:51:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199707312051.QAA04468@smtp2.erols.com> From: "Bergie Frazier Jr" To: "'DC Cycles'" Subject: Re: Constables on Patrol Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:50:35 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Treating him with disrespect is not the proper way to do this. > I guess I'm done. > > yay cops, > Mitch > I think you missed the point. The point is attitude, and every cop has one, especially when you try to explain to them that they are indeed wrong, which BTW was exactly the case. Haven't you ever been in the situation where you are attempting to explain your actions and they absolutely do not want to hear a word of it. It's a power trip, and that guy was definitely on one especially since he was out of uniform. PS; I don't think anyone was suggesting any disrespect to law enforcement From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 31 17:03:38 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id RAA09845; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 17:03:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id RAA12947; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 17:03:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hub02.tds-gn.lmco.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id RAA05814; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 17:03:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by hub02.tds-gn.lmco.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) id <01BC9DD3.5892D790@XXXXXX>; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 17:01:10 -0400 Message-ID: From: To: , Subject: RE: Rookie MCP Cop Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 17:01:09 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 Encoding: 37 TEXT Sorry Squeaks, I gotta disagree with you here. I have no right? Im a licensed, legal tax paying citizen, and I have no right to drive ( or ride) on state roads?!?!? Nope, it's still a privilege, one that can be revoked for such things as DUI convictions, etc. You may have the right to travel (as a passenger) on roads (unless you are placed under house arrest or something). > Driving there is a privilege, not a right. If you've done the tests, taken the classes, gotten the licenses, paid the taxes, then it becomes your right. If this is all true, then there is no reason to revoke the privilege. That doesn't make it one's right. People need to understand the difference. In general, I've got to sympathize with most Cops. Pulling someone over in a traffic stop has got to be one of the most harrowing things to do. You have no idea whether or not that person is sane, packing a weapon, high on drugs, hates authority figures, etc. The cop has about 5 seconds to form a first impression about you, whether you are a normal citizen or a serial killer. That can't be easy to do. If the Cop guesses wrong, he is dead, it's that simple. I can't understand these folks that give cops instant attitude the moment they are pulled over. What do you expect, people? I've found that kindness and manners go a long ways in situations like this, even though you may be in the right. I'm glad in this case that the Rookie Cop realized that he made an error and got back in his car. He was probably too embarrassed to apologize to the biker, and too pissed at himself to handle the situation properly. It all worked out, though. For that I am glad. Horkster From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 31 17:07:10 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id RAA09892; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 17:07:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id RAA13000; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 17:07:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hub02.tds-gn.lmco.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id RAA05884; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 17:07:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by hub02.tds-gn.lmco.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) id <01BC9DD3.D8B93D10@XXXXXX>; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 17:04:45 -0400 Message-ID: From: To: Subject: RE: Waving at Constables on Patrol Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 17:04:44 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 Encoding: 14 TEXT > Personally, I always give a supporting wave or a thumbs-up whenever I pass >a police car on my bike. I wouldnt recommend that. They might mistake it for the OTHER salute (the one involving the middle finger) and come after you. I am in the habit of waving at any bike I pass on the road. One day I waved at a motorcycle cop coming the other way long before I realized that he was a cop. Thing was, he waved back just as friendly! Cops are people too. Riding happy, waving at anything that moves, Horkster From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 31 17:09:10 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id RAA09915; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 17:09:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id RAA13047; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 17:09:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gemini.smart.net by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id RAA06135; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 17:09:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tgimer.smart.net (a2p42dyn.smart.net [206.27.243.74]) by gemini.smart.net (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA00143 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 17:11:01 -0400 Message-ID: <33E0FF0E.6A6A@no.spam.smart.net> Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 17:09:34 -0400 From: "Thomas H. Gimer" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Constables on Patrol References: <3.0.1.32.19970731142132.00692634@mail.vt.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mitch wrote: > > Alright, enough already. I just want to put my two cents in to respect > the police officers. They deal with the absolute worst slice of society as > their job. Day in and day out, their clients consist of criminals, law > breakers and disreputables. They are all human, just like you and I. > Pretty much they are nice people. A bit naive, are we? Police, many of them admittedly, look at society with an US v. THEM attitude. > Now, being human, they are prone to stereotyping and making mistakes. So > when they see us motorcyclists, they know that we speed and, shall we say, > bend traffic laws. How do they know this? Well, they can read this list > for a little while and get a pretty good sense. We all talk about our ride > routes and not to speed in the small towns and how a beginner can't keep up > in the twisties. They see us fly by their civilian vehicles when they are > not on duty. > So they will keep a close eye on us when they are on duty. > Maybe they will try to get us on some really stupid technicality to make up > for the fact that we weren't speeding in front of them. And you are endorsing this behavior? > Personally, I always give a supporting wave or a thumbs-up whenever I pass > a police car on my bike. When you're in a car, you can't do this. But > when you are on a bike, people are able to see your gestures. It's nice > for the cops to see that they are appreciated by some of the population. I bet they think you're kidding. > Also by doing this, they see that I respect and appreciate them and perhaps > they are less likely to follow me and harrass me. I think it would be > really great if everyone on motorcycles gave a thumbs up to police officers > instead of a mental middle-finger. If police officers saw the thumbs up as > a general mentality towards them, they may even get to like motorcyclists. Sure..... Is it me or does this seem very unrealistic? > I guess I'm done. > > yay cops, > Mitch Quite politically correct. I'm sure I'm not alone, however, in believing that this is basically a crock. -- Thomas H. Gimer tgimer@XXXXXX *email address shown here (not in header) is valid* From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 31 17:21:15 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id RAA10101; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 17:21:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id RAA13206; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 17:21:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id RAA06625; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 17:21:04 -0400 (EDT) From: tjoseph@XXXXXX Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA08875 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:20:31 -0500 (CDT) Received: from unknown(199.128.76.102) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma007781; Thu Jul 31 16:14:25 1997 Message-ID: <33E10007.5162@ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 17:13:44 -0400 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Rookie MCP Cop References: <1.5.4.16.19970731162013.0d0fb9d4@pop.erols.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Squeakers: Perhaps YOU should read the posts more carefully. In no way did I attribute the quote to you; it was a DIRECT QUOTE from another respondent. Check your ego, Squeak. Not everything on this list is SOLELY related to you. And I do maintain my original stance. No, license or not, taxpayer or not, you have no right to roadway. It's is a privilege, granted by the state, which the state regulates. You have a right to freedom of speech, you have a right to be free of unreasonable searches and seizures, you have a right to worship in the religion of your choice. There is no right to free roadway, regardless of whether you are licensed and complying with all laws. Basic civics would have taught you that. It seems you are the one who needs to read a few books. Better yet, read the Constitution sometime; I'm sure it would enlighten you. In a general way, my post did concern you though. People who constantly harangue "I'm defending my rights, I'm defending my rights" frequently have no idea what their rights are. This seems to be the case here. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 31 17:27:54 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id RAA10191; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 17:27:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id RAA13266; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 17:27:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp1.erols.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id RAA06796; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 17:27:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LOCALNAME (frd-as1s22.erols.com [207.172.110.22]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA11588; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 17:28:40 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 17:28:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970731173002.361f0db6@pop.erols.com> X-Sender: squeaks@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: , From: Squeakers Subject: RE: Waving at Constables on Patrol > >I am in the habit of waving at any bike I pass on the road. One day I waved at >a motorcycle cop coming the other way long before I realized that he was a cop. >Thing was, he waved back just as friendly! Cops are people too. > >Riding happy, waving at anything that moves, >Horkster > > Yes!! A WAVING thread! I like those! Ok. I wave at everyone, as long as I notice them in time. Yup, even cops...on BIKES. I guess Ill concede the "cops are people, too" thing. But only cuz Id have to deal with my niece and nephew (the cop) if I dont. And of course, my dad, the ex DEA'er. The ones that follow me for no reason whatsoever? Nope. I wont give you that. But I DO wave! Even at Rocketeers! (if I can get my hand up before they zoooom by) :) Squeakers From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 31 17:35:49 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id RAA10320; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 17:35:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id RAA13598; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 17:35:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gemini.smart.net by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id RAA07193; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 17:35:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tgimer.smart.net (a2p42dyn.smart.net [206.27.243.74]) by gemini.smart.net (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA01090 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 17:37:38 -0400 Message-ID: <33E1054B.7566@no.spam.smart.net> Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 17:36:11 -0400 From: "Thomas H. Gimer" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Rookie MCP Cop References: <1.5.4.16.19970731162013.0d0fb9d4@pop.erols.com> <33E10007.5162@ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit tjoseph@XXXXXX wrote: > > Squeakers: > > Perhaps YOU should read the posts more carefully. In no way did I > attribute the quote to you; it was a DIRECT QUOTE from another > respondent. Check your ego, Squeak. Not everything on this list is > SOLELY related to you. > > And I do maintain my original stance. No, license or not, taxpayer or > not, you have no right to roadway. It's is a privilege, granted by the > state, which the state regulates. And, in this particular case, that 'privilege' grants those who are legally licensed and tagged and on motorcycles to use that HOV lane. The terminology used here is not the issue (for most of us). > You have a right to freedom of > speech, you have a right to be free of unreasonable searches and > seizures, you have a right to worship in the religion of your choice. > There is no right to free roadway, regardless of whether you are > licensed and complying with all laws. Basic civics would have taught > you that. It seems you are the one who needs to read a few books. > Better yet, read the Constitution sometime; I'm sure it would enlighten > you. > > In a general way, my post did concern you though. People who > constantly harangue "I'm defending my rights, I'm defending my rights" > frequently have no idea what their rights are. This seems to be the > case here. Are you interested in protecting the rights (oh, sorry, privileges) of motorcyclists to continue using our nation's highways with as little harassment as possible, or just interested in making sure we all do our Constitutional Law homework before we speak? The latter seems to be the case here. -- Thomas H. Gimer tgimer@XXXXXX *email address shown here (not in header) is valid* From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 31 17:37:06 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id RAA10337; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 17:37:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id RAA13613; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 17:37:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp1.erols.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id RAA07230; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 17:37:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LOCALNAME (frd-as1s22.erols.com [207.172.110.22]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA13463; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 17:37:53 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 17:37:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970731173915.361f1e8c@pop.erols.com> X-Sender: squeaks@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: From: Squeakers Subject: RE: Waving at Constables on Patrol part two Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 05:04 PM 7/31/97 -0400, dale.r.horstman@XXXXXX wrote: > >> Personally, I always give a supporting wave or a thumbs-up whenever I pass >>a police car on my bike. > > I wouldnt recommend that. They might mistake it for the OTHER salute (the >one involving the middle finger) and come after you. > > >I am in the habit of waving at any bike I pass on the road. One day I waved at >a motorcycle cop coming the other way long before I realized that he was a cop. >Thing was, he waved back just as friendly! Cops are people too. > >Riding happy, waving at anything that moves, >Horkster > > I forgot to mention in the post I just made. He said he waves at police cars, not cops on bikes. I dont put them in the same league. The cops that ride are more aware that just because someone rides, they arent necessarily an evil entity. The ones Ive met so far are ok. And human. :) And yes! They DO wave back! Squeakers From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 31 17:39:38 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id RAA10373; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 17:39:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id RAA13624; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 17:39:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emh3.arl.mil by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id RAA07286; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 17:39:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccMail by emh3.arl.mil (IMA Internet Exchange v1.04) id 3e1038e0; Thu, 31 Jul 97 17:28:46 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 17:28:56 -0400 Message-ID: <3e1038e0@emh3.arl.mil> From: Dave_Choat@XXXXXX (Dave Choat) Subject: Re[2]: Rookie MCP Cop To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part >In general, I've got to sympathize with most Cops. Pulling someone over in >a traffic stop has got to be one of the most harrowing things to do. It is the most dangerous (in terms of fatalities per number of incidents) thing a policemman can do. The second most lethal situation is entering a private resdience (with a warrant or pursuant to an arrest or complaint etc..) Dave From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 31 18:04:29 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id SAA10729; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 18:04:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id SAA13951; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 18:04:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from micros-bh.micros.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id SAA08619; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 18:04:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by micros-bh.micros.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) id SAA08473 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 18:03:12 -0400 Received: from micros.micros.com by micros-bh.micros.com via smap (3.2) id xma008465; Thu, 31 Jul 97 18:03:09 -0400 Received: from smtplink.micros.com (smtplink.micros.com [206.241.52.10]) by micros.micros.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/micros-2.1) with SMTP id SAA00518; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 18:03:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccMail by smtplink.micros.com (ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.00) id AA870386479; Thu, 31 Jul 97 18:01:20 -0500 Message-Id: <9707318703.AA870386479@smtplink.micros.com> X-Mailer: ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.00 Date: Thu, 31 Jul 97 18:00:20 -0500 From: "Brian McCoy" To: , Subject: Re[2]: Rookie MCP Cop MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Perhaps YOU should read the posts more carefully. In no way did I attribute the quote to you; it was a DIRECT QUOTE from another respondent. Check your ego, Squeak. Not everything on this list is SOLELY related to you. But eveything on this list of any level of volitale nature is squeakers domain. So, from her perspective, everything is related to her.... s'ok, it's interesting to read for awhile, then gets old and deleted like the rest of the trash... Have a good day, and ride safe.. Brian McCoy bmccoy@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 31 18:11:17 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id SAA10890; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 18:11:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id SAA14010; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 18:11:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from quackerjack.cc.vt.edu by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id SAA08830; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 18:11:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sable.cc.vt.edu (sable.cc.vt.edu [128.173.16.30]) by quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA04543 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 18:11:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lancelot.campus.vt.edu (dam-as7s13.erols.com [207.172.138.140]) by sable.cc.vt.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id SAA32441 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 18:10:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970731180845.0068ae54@mail.vt.edu> X-Sender: mrubinst@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 18:08:45 +0600 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mitch Subject: Mmmmm.... doughnuts. In-Reply-To: <33E0DF04.1449@no.spam.smart.net> References: <3.0.1.32.19970731142132.00692634@mail.vt.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >A bit naive, are we? Police, many of them admittedly, look at society >with an US v. THEM attitude. Nah, I'm a Sergeant in the US Marine Corps. Several of my friends are cops and a lot of cops are ex-Marines or Marines in the reserves. So I'm speaking from the attitude that I have observed. Most police officers have the attitude that they are public servants and work for the population. They are the Men [and women] in blue, protecting the people from the scum of the universe. heh. But seriously. The US vs. THEM attitude is police versus criminals. If you aren't a criminal, then they do not place themselves in a competitive stance towards you. Police officers also help you when you are stranded by the side of the road and direct traffic and do all sorts of other stuff that has nothing to do with this US vs. THEM attitude. This stance is there but not towards the general population, only towards the criminals. >And you are endorsing this behavior? I'm definitely not endorsing this behavior. (harrassing bikers) It's quite black and white and this behavior is definitely wrong. I'm just saying that cops are human and have the same silliness in their brain housing group that the rest of us do. You might say that you would act better, but I would point out your opinion about cops as an example. I think the listserve and the AMA and stuff can do a lot for keeping police in line about the harrassment that has been observed and written about here. Anyone here a lawyer? in the meanwhile, I suppose you just have to look out for yourself. [About waving] I suppose the cops could get the wrong impression. They mostly wave back though, so I doubt it. Which means they don't think I'm kidding either... >> Also by doing this, they see that I respect and appreciate them and perhaps >> they are less likely to follow me and harrass me. I think it would be >> really great if everyone on motorcycles gave a thumbs up to police officers >> instead of a mental middle-finger. If police officers saw the thumbs up as >> a general mentality towards them, they may even get to like motorcyclists. > >Sure..... Is it me or does this seem very unrealistic? Yeah, this is unrealistic. But think of the possibilities, man! They'd let us speed! They might make a motorcycles only road with no speed limits! The american autobahn! yeah, yeah, cool. >Quite politically correct. I'm sure I'm not alone, however, in >believing that this is basically a crock. Nope, this isn't a crock. I'm not a cop, but I play one on tv. By that I mean, I can relate to them. I simply appreciate their position in society. I think it is a tough, unrewarding job that is extremely vital. end of rant, Mitch From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 31 18:17:51 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id SAA10944; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 18:17:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id SAA14071; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 18:17:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.clark.net by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id SAA09160; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 18:17:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from clark.net (hacker@XXXXXX [168.143.0.7]) by mail.clark.net (8.8.5/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA14645; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 18:17:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Dark Hacker Received: (from hacker@localhost) by clark.net (8.8.5/8.7.1) id SAA05584; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 18:17:23 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 18:17:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199707312217.SAA05584@clark.net> To: Dysart@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX, mehran.firouzbakht@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Rookie MCP Cop Same thing here. I was driving home at 3:00AM in the morning one evening. To get to my place it is necesary to maneuver from an off ramp across several lanes of traffic and then to a right turn at a light. I was pulled over and asked by the officer why I was "swerving across the lanes" and "if I had been drinking." Of course I hadn't. I even signalled when changing lanes. I suspect that he was fishing. Who else but a drunk would be driving that late at night? Jerks. - Hacker From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 31 18:24:49 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id SAA11040; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 18:24:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id SAA14383; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 18:24:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from micros-bh.micros.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id SAA09486; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 18:24:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by micros-bh.micros.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) id SAA09678 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 18:23:41 -0400 Received: from micros.micros.com by micros-bh.micros.com via smap (3.2) id xma009665; Thu, 31 Jul 97 18:23:13 -0400 Received: from smtplink.micros.com (smtplink.micros.com [206.241.52.10]) by micros.micros.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/micros-2.1) with SMTP id SAA00763 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 18:23:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccMail by smtplink.micros.com (ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.00) id AA870387683; Thu, 31 Jul 97 18:21:26 -0500 Message-Id: <9707318703.AA870387683@smtplink.micros.com> X-Mailer: ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.00 Date: Thu, 31 Jul 97 18:20:05 -0500 From: "Brian McCoy" To: Subject: Re[3]: Rookie MCP Cop MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit opps, wrong button... last post was intended to be personal.. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 31 18:36:32 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id SAA11136; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 18:36:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id SAA14550; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 18:36:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp1.erols.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id SAA10106; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 18:36:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LOCALNAME (frd-as1s22.erols.com [207.172.110.22]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA23586; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 18:37:14 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 18:37:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970731183835.361ffc04@pop.erols.com> X-Sender: squeaks@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: dale.r.horstman@XXXXXX, From: Squeakers Subject: RE: Rookie MCP Cop >In general, I've got to sympathize with most Cops. Pulling someone over in >a traffic stop has got to be one of the most harrowing things to do. You have >no idea whether or not that person is sane, packing a weapon, high on drugs, >hates authority figures, etc. The cop has about 5 seconds to form a first >impression about you, whether you are a normal citizen or a serial killer. That >can't be easy to do. If the Cop guesses wrong, he is dead, it's that simple.> >I can't understand these folks that give cops instant attitude the moment they >are pulled over. What do you expect, people? I've found that kindness and >manners go a long ways in situations like this, even though you may be in the right. Yes, I agree that they do have a harrowing job. However, why does that have to be expressed towards me? If Im being followed, or pulled over, simply because Im on a bike, then I cant help but have "instant attitude". I didnt DO anything. I dont live in a high crime city, full of dastardly demons. The vast majority of the crime out here is more of the teenage vandalism variety. Cops just dont ever get shot or killed out here. Further, I dont think I look the part of "dangerous biker type felon". Hell, on my itty bike, I rarely even go much over the speed limit. Yet, I get followed. Quite often. Why? > Squeakers From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 31 18:37:47 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id SAA11144; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 18:37:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id SAA14561; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 18:37:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from skippy.umiacs.umd.edu by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id SAA10144; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 18:37:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from epsilon.nova.org by skippy.umiacs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id SAA05098; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 18:37:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (pierre@localhost) by epsilon.nova.org (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id SAA27291 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 18:37:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: epsilon.nova.org: pierre owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 18:37:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas Piergallini Reply-To: Thomas Piergallini To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Rookie MCP Cop In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19970731144737.0cdfde7e@pop.erols.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII before you all come to my house and try to beat me senseless caus I am a cop hater... I have the utmost respect for any peace officer with the integrity to serve the public good. Death to any officer who violates this highest level of public trust. (I do NOT consider the rookie incident to be an example of this, but the rookie certain deserves NONE of my respect. you wanna be a cop, it is all or nothing baby. You are a super-human. Live it, love it, or leave it.) And as a general rule motorcycle cops are assholes. i have yet to me a nice one. if you know a nice one, please have him call me. I really would like to meet one that is not a butthead. i do not wave to cop-bikers. I fear they will pull me over for wrecklss driving (hands off handlebars) As a general rule state cops (non-moto) are gentalman. I have yet to meet a bad-statie. Even the ones that arrested me on occasion were real nice to after beating on me a little bit, but no harm done. -pierre Thomas Piergallini EMail: pierre@XXXXXX, pierre@XXXXXX Send me MIME mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 31 19:01:59 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id TAA11403; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 19:01:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id TAA14813; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 19:01:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp1.erols.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id TAA11288; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 19:01:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LOCALNAME (frd-as1s22.erols.com [207.172.110.22]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA27122; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 19:02:28 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 19:02:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970731190350.361f6c06@pop.erols.com> X-Sender: squeaks@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: billsch@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Squeakers Subject: Re: Rookie MCP Cop > >Doesn't take much to set us off does it? A rookie cop made a >mistake--but he wasn't abusive and wrote no paper. It seems like no >big deal (although a mistake does make him unique in this virtual >world of ours)--and were're all over the lot with male-bashing and >personal insults. Very interesting. Hopefully the nice weekend will HEY! I didnt do any male bashing! (this time) I SWEAR I didnt!!!! Really! I didnt even tell any "man jokes"!! Not a one!!! But...did ya hear the one about.. oh, never mind. I wont tell it. But ya woulda liked it. Squeakers From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 31 19:10:10 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id TAA11472; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 19:10:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id TAA14924; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 19:10:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emout04.mail.aol.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id TAA11719; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 19:10:02 -0400 (EDT) From: KLThomas77@XXXXXX Received: (from root@localhost) by emout04.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id TAA26388 for dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 19:09:31 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 19:09:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970731190929_1348802186@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: do you use Nelson St in Rockville? Hey, y'all- Just a warning, two days in a row, a cycle cop was running radar on Nelson, just as you go down the hill from 28. They are using cycle cops more, it seems, to run radar, since they are unidentifiable as police from a distance. Saw one using laser on Tower Oaks at Montrose not long ago. BTW, I'm assuming the cop on Nelson was running radar, but I don't have a detector on the bike. Could have been laser just as well. And thanks to the rider of the yellow (FZR?) who warned me as I went by on my blue VFR. Later Kevin From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 31 19:12:13 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id TAA11480; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 19:12:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id TAA15014; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 19:12:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emout20.mail.aol.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id TAA11768; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 19:12:01 -0400 (EDT) From: KLThomas77@XXXXXX Received: (from root@localhost) by emout20.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id TAA13483 for dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 19:11:30 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 19:11:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970731191128_427018250@emout20.mail.aol.com> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: VFRs at Mont. College, Rockville Hey, y'all- It was gratifying to see a 90 and a 94+ VFR sitting by my 87 at MC today. Was it anybody here? Later Kevin From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 31 19:13:34 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id TAA11494; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 19:13:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id TAA15054; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 19:13:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gemini.smart.net by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id TAA11806; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 19:13:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tgimer.smart.net (a2p42dyn.smart.net [206.27.243.74]) by gemini.smart.net (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA04115; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 19:15:21 -0400 Message-ID: <33E11C32.7495@no.spam.smart.net> Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 19:13:54 -0400 From: "Thomas H. Gimer" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mitch CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Mmmmm.... doughnuts. References: <3.0.1.32.19970731142132.00692634@mail.vt.edu> <3.0.1.32.19970731180845.0068ae54@mail.vt.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mitch wrote: > > >A bit naive, are we? Police, many of them admittedly, look at society > >with an US v. THEM attitude. > > Nah, I'm a Sergeant in the US Marine Corps. Several of my friends are cops > and a lot of cops are ex-Marines or Marines in the reserves. So I'm > speaking from the attitude that I have observed. Most police officers have > the attitude that they are public servants and work for the population. > They are the Men [and women] in blue, protecting the people from the scum > of the universe. heh. > But seriously. The US vs. THEM attitude is police versus criminals. If > you aren't a criminal, then they do not place themselves in a competitive > stance towards you. Police officers also help you when you are stranded by > the side of the road and direct traffic and do all sorts of other stuff > that has nothing to do with this US vs. THEM attitude. This stance is > there but not towards the general population, only towards the criminals. The 'criminals' you speak of hide amongst the general population. Police do not know which people are criminals, and, therefore, they treat everyone as a suspected criminal. The US v. THEM attitude is well documented in psychological studies of police officers. What your cop friends tell you and what they actually feel can be two entirely different things. I get a big kick out of the 'public servants' talk....many of these guys (especially city/local police) think they are above the law, not servants of the public. > > [About waving] > I suppose the cops could get the wrong impression. They mostly wave back > though, so I doubt it. Which means they don't think I'm kidding either... > > >> Also by doing this, they see that I respect and appreciate them and perhaps > >> they are less likely to follow me and harrass me. I think it would be > >> really great if everyone on motorcycles gave a thumbs up to police officers > >> instead of a mental middle-finger. If police officers saw the thumbs up as > >> a general mentality towards them, they may even get to like motorcyclists. > > > >Sure..... Is it me or does this seem very unrealistic? > > Yeah, this is unrealistic. But think of the possibilities, man! They'd > let us speed! > They might make a motorcycles only road with no speed > limits! The american autobahn! yeah, yeah, cool. What? > > >Quite politically correct. I'm sure I'm not alone, however, in > >believing that this is basically a crock. > > Nope, this isn't a crock. I'm not a cop, but I play one on tv. By that I > mean, I can relate to them. I'm afraid I don't see how being a Marine enables you to relate to being a police officer. Back to the initial issue: A guy on his motorcycle gets stopped for legally using the HOV lanes that hundreds of cars used illegally today. -- Thomas H. Gimer tgimer@XXXXXX *email address shown here (not in header) is valid* From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 31 20:09:04 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id UAA11916; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 20:09:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id UAA15837; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 20:07:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from visuallink.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id UAA13838; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 20:07:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LOCALNAME (ppp26.visuallink.com [206.151.68.186]) by visuallink.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA02774; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 20:09:15 -0400 Message-ID: <33E152E1.5B4AD371@visuallink.com> Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 20:07:13 -0700 From: "Ivan S. Keefer" Reply-To: ivank@XXXXXX Organization: Completely UNOrganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kirk Roy CC: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Ride this Saturday (August 2) to central VA/WV X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------69ADFE83963C05FC747BEA19" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------69ADFE83963C05FC747BEA19 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kirk Roy wrote: > these are not good > roads > for beginners. Unbeknownst to me (he didn't mention his experience > level), > I brought a beginner on US250 a couple of weeks ago. He was very > nervous > once the twisties started up. On one corner he got scared, stood the > bike > up, and went down along the side of the road. We checked out the bike > and > got back on the road and he did the same thing about 4 corners further > down. > > That was no fun. One of the guys on the ride needed to be home early > so he > escorted the unfortunate guy home. > > Just FYI, > > Kirk > Maybe your friend was trying to keep up with a more experienced rider (YOU) causing HIM to ride beyond his capabilities. Show your friend the attached file, it should be read and remembered by us all. Seeya down the road... -- Ivan S. Keefer Winchester, VA (Shenandoah Valley, Blue Ridge Mts., motorcycles *sigh*) ivank@XXXXXX 1984 Honda CB700SC Nighthawk S blue/black (current) 1982 Suzuki GS1100L 2-tone blue (previous) AMA # 487634 International Brotherhood of Teamsters Local 29 Home Page http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/8926/index.html --------------69ADFE83963C05FC747BEA19 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii; name="THEPACE.HTM" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="THEPACE.HTM" Content-Base: "file:///C|/NETSCAPE/USERS/IVAN/THEPACE .HTM" thepace.rtf

The Pace

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"The Pace" as originally published in the US Sport Rider Magazine by Motorcyclist Nick Lenatsch, in Nov 91 and revised in '93.
A precised version is below.

"Racing involves speed, concentration and committment; the results of a mistake are usually catastrophic because there's little room for error riding at 100 percent. Performance street riding is less intense and further from the absolute limit, but because circumstances are less controlled, mistakes and over agressiveness can be equally catastrophic. Plenty of roadracers have sworn off street riding. "Too dangerous, too many variables and too easy to get carried away with too much speed," track specialists claim. Adrenaline-addled racers find themselves treating the street like the track, and not surprisingly, they get burned by the police, the laws of physics and the cold, harsh realities of an environment not groomed for ten tenths riding. But as many of us know, a swift ride down a favourite road may be the finest way to spend a few free hours with a bike we love. And these few hours are best enjoyed riding at The Pace.

A year after I joined the Motorcyclist staff in 1984, Mitch Boehm was hired. Six months later, The Pace came into being, and we perfected it during the next few months of road testing and weekend fun rides. Now The Pace is part of my life--and a part of the Sunday-morning riding group I frequent. The Pace is a street technique that not only keeps street riders alive, but thouroughly enertained as well.

THE PACE

The Pace focuses on bike control and de-emphasizes outright speed. Full-throttle acceleration and last minute braking aren't part of the program, effectively eliminating the two most common single-bike accident scenarios in sport riding. Cornering momentum is the name of the game, stressing strong, forceful inputs at the handlebar to place the bike correctly at the entrance of the turn and get it flicked in with little wasted time and distance. Since the throttle wasn't slammed open at the exit of the last corner, the next corner doesn't require much, if any, braking. It isn't uncommon to ride with our group and not see a brake light flash all morning.

If the brakes are required, the front lever gets squeezed smoothly, quickly and with a good deal of force to set entrance speed with minimum time. Running in on the brakes is tantamount to running off the road, a confession that you're pushing too hard and not getting your entrance speed set early enough because you stayed on the gas too long. Running The Pace decreases your reliance on the throttle and brakes, the two easiest controls to abuse, and hones your ability to judge cornering speed, which is the most thrilling aspect of performance street riding.

YOUR LANE IS YOUR LIMIT

Crossing the centerline at any time except during a passing maneuver is intolerable, another sign that you're pushing too hard to keep up. Even when you have a clean line of sight through a left-hand kink, stay to the right of the centerline. Staying on the right side of the centerline is much more challenging than simply straightening every slight corner, and when the whole group is committed to this intelligent practice, the temptation to cheat is eliminated through peer pressure and logic. Though street riding shouldn't be described in racing terms, you can think of your lane as the racetrack. Leaving your lane is tantamount to a crash.

Exact bike control has you using every inch of your lane if the circumstances permit it. In corners with a clear line of sight and no oncoming traffic, enter at the far outside of the corner, turn the bike relatively late in the corner to get a late apex at the far inside of your lane and accelerate out, just brushing the far outside of your lane as your bike stands up. Steer your bike forcefully but smoothly to minimize the transition time; don't hammer it down because the chassis will bobble slightly as it settles, possibly carrying you off line. Since you haven't charged in on the brakes, you can get the throttle on early, before the apex, which balances and settles your bike for the drive out.

More often than not, circumstances do not permit the full use of your lane from yellow line to white line and back again. Blind corners, oncoming traffic and gravel on the road are a few criteria that dictate a more conservative approach, so leave yourself a three- or four-foot margin for error, especially at the left side of the lane where errant oncoming traffic could prove fatal. Simply narrow your entrance on a blind right-hander and move your apex into your lane three feet on blind left turns in order to stay free of unseen oncoming traffic hogging the centerline. Because you're running at The Pace and not flat out, your controlled entrances offer additional time to deal with unexpected gravel or other debris in your lane; the outside wheel track is usually the cleanest through a dirty corner since a car weights its outside tires most, scrubbing more dirt off the pavement in the process, so aim for that line.

A GOOD LEADER, WILLING FOLLOWERS

The street is not a racing environment, and it takes humility, self assurance and self control to keep it that way. The leader sets the pace and monitors his mirrors for signs of raggedness in the ranks that follow, such as tucking in on straights, crossing over the yellow line and hanging off the motorcycle in corners. If the leader pulls away, he simply slows his straightaway speed slightly but continues to enjoy the corners, thus closing the ranks but missing none of the fun. The small group of three or four riders I ride with is so harmonious that the pace is identical no matter who's leading. The lead shifts occasionally with a quick hand sign, but there's never a pass for the lead with an ego on the sleeve. Make no mistake, the riding is spirited and quick--in the corners. Anyone with a right arm can hammer down the straights; it's the proficiency in the corners that makes The Pace come alive.

Following distances are relatively lengthy, with the straightaways---taken at more moderate speeds--the perfect opportunity to adjust the gaps. Keeping a good distance serves several purposes, besides being safer. Rock chips are minimized and the highway patrol won't suspect a race is in progress. The Pace's style of not hanging off in corners also reduces the appearance of pushing too hard and adds a degree of maturity and sensibility in the eyes of the public and the law. There's a definite challenge to cornering quickly while sitting sedately on your bike.

New rider indoctrination takes some time because The Pace develops very high cornering speeds and newcomers want to hammer the throttle on exits to make up for what they lose at the entrances. Our group slows drastically when a new rider joins the ranks because our technique of moderate straightaway speeds and no brakes can suck the unaware into a corner too fast, creating the most common single-bike accident. With a new rider learning The Pace behind you, tap your brake lightly well before the turn to alert him and make sure he understands there's no pressure to stay with the group.

There's plenty of ongoing communication during The Pace. A foot off the peg indicates debris on the road, and all slowing or turning intentions are signaled in advance with the left hand and arm. Turn signals are used for direction changes and passing, with a wave of the left hand to thank the cars that move right and make it easy for the motorcyclists to get past. Since you don't have a death grip on the handlebar, you left hand is also free to wave to oncoming riders, a fading courtesy that we'd like to see return. If you're getting the idea The Pace is a relaxing, noncompetitive way to ride with a group, you are right.

RELAX AND FLICK IT

I'd rather spend a Sunday in the mountains riding at The Pace than a Sunday at the racetrack, it is that enjoyable. Countersteering is the name of the game, a smooth forceful steering input at the handlebar relayed to the tires contact patches through a rigid sport-bike frame. Riding at The Pace is certainly what the bike manufacturers had in mind when sport bikes evolved to the street.

But the machine isn't the most important aspect of running The Pace because you can do it on anything capable of getting through a corner. Attitude is The Pace's most important aspect; realizing the friend ahead of you isn't a competotor, respecting his right to lead the group occasionally and giving him credit for his riding skills. You must have the maturity to limlt your straightaway speeds to allow the group to stay in touch and the sense to realize that racetrack tactics such as late braking and full throttle runs to redline will alienate the public and police and possibly introduce you to the unforgiving laws of gravity. When the group arrives at the destination after running The Pace, no one feels outgunned or is left with the feeling he must prove himself on the return run. If you've got something to prove, get on a racetrack.

The racetrack measures your speed with a stopwatch and direct competition, welcoming your agression and gritty resolve to be the best. Performance street riding's only yardstick is the amount of enjoyment gained, not lap times, finishing position or competitors beaten. The differences are huge but not always remembered by riders who haven't discovered The Pace's cornering pureness and group involvement. Hammer on the racetrack. Pace yourself on the street.

(Edited for spacing and line length. Originally published in '93 as a follow-up to his original article from '91)

Pace Yourself

The street is not the track - It's a place to Pace.

Two weeks go a rider died when he and his bike tumbled off a cliff paralleling our favorite road. No gravel in the lane, no oncoming car pushing him wide, no ice. The guy screwed up. Rider error. Too much enthusiasm with too little skill, and this fatality wasn't the first on this road this year. As with most single-bike accidents, the rider entered the corner at a speed his brain told him was too fast, stood the bike up and nailed the rear brake. Goodbye.

On the racetrack the rider would have tumbled into the hay bales, visited the ambulance for a strip of gauze and headed back to the pits to straighten his handlebars and think about his mistake. But let's get one thing perfectly clear: the street is not the racetrack. Using it as such will shorten your riding career and keep you from discovering the Pace. The Pace is far from street racing - and a lot more fun.

The Pace places the motorcycle in its proper role as the controlled vehicle, not the controlling vehicle. Too many riders of sport bikes become baggage when the throttle gets twisted - the ensuing speed is so overwhelming they are carried along in the rush. The Pace ignores outright speed and cab be as much fun on a Ninja 250 as on a ZX-11, emphasizing rider skill over right-wrist bravado. A fool can twist the grip, but a fool has no idea how to stop or turn. Learning to stop will save your life; learning to turn will enrich it. What feels better than banking a motorcycle over into a corner.

The mechanics of turning a motorcycle involve pushing and/or pulling on the handlebars; while this isn't new information for most sport riders, realize that the force at the handlebar affects the motorcycle's rate of turn-in. Shove hard on the bars, and the bike snaps over; gently push the bars, and the bike lazily banks in. Different corners require different techniques, but as you begin to think about lines, late entrances and late apexes, turning your bike at the exact moment and reaching he precise lean angle will require firm, forceful inputs and the handlebars. If you take less time to turn your motorcycle, you can use that time to brake more effectively or run deeper into the corner, affording yourself more time to judge the corner and a better look at any hidden surprises. It's important to look as far into the corner as possible and remember the adage, "You go where you look."

Don't Rush

The number-one survival skill, after mastering emergency braking, is setting your corner-entrance speed early, or as Kenny Roberts says, "Slow in, fast out." Street riders may get away with rushing into 99 out of 100 corners, but that last one will have gravel, mud or a trespassing car. Setting entrance speed early will allow you to adjust your speed and cornering line, giving you every opportunity to handle the surprise.

We've all rushed into a corner too fast and experienced not just the terror but the lack of control when trying to herd the bike into the bend. If you're fighting the brakes and trying to turn the bike, any surprise will be impossible to deal with. Setting your entrance speed early and looking into the corner allows you to determine what type of corner you're facing. Does the radius decrease? Is the turn off-camber? Is there an embankment that may have contributed some dirt to the corner.

Racers talk constantly about late braking, yet that technique is used only to pass for position during a race, not to turn a quicker lap time. Hard braking blurs the ability to judge cornering speed accurately, and most racers who rely too heavily on the brakes find themselves passed at the corner exits because they scrubbed off too much cornering speed. Additionally, braking late often forces you to trail the brakes or turn the motorcycle while still braking. While light trail braking is an excellent and useful technique to master, understand that your front tire has only a certain amount of traction to give.

If you use a majority of the front tire's traction for braking and then ask it to provide maximum cornering traction as well, a typical low-side crash will result. Also consider that your motorcycle won't steer as well with the fork fully compressed under braking. If you're constantly fighting the motorcycle while turning, it may be because you're braking too far into the corner. All these problems can be eliminated by setting your entrance speed early, an important component of running the Pace.

Since you aren't hammering the brakes at every corner entrance, your enjoyment of pure cornering will increase tremendously. You'll relish the feeling of snapping your bike into the corner and opening the throttle as early as possible. Racers talk about getting the drive started, and that's just as important on the street. Notice how the motorcycle settles down and simply works better when the throttle is open? Use a smooth, light touch on the throttle and try to get the bike driving as soon as possible in the corner, even before the apex, the tightest point of the corner. If you find yourself on the throttle ridiculously early, it's an indication you can increase your entrance speed slightly be releasing the brakes earlier.

As you sweep past the apex, you can begin to stand the bike up out of the corner. This is best done by smoothly accelerating, which will help stand the bike up. As the rear tire comes off full lean, it puts more rubber on the road, and the forces previously used for cornering traction can be converted to acceleration traction. The throttle can be rolled open as the bike stands up.

This magazine won't tell you how fast is safe; we will tell you how to go fast safely. How fast you go is your decision, but it's one that requires reflection and commitment. High speed on an empty four-lane freeway is against the law, but it's fairly safe. Fifty-five miles per hour in a canyon may be legal, but it may also be dangerous. Get together with your friends and talk about speed. Set a reasonable maximum and stick to it. Done right, the Pace is addicting without high straightaway speeds.

The group I ride with couldn't care less about outright speed between corners; any gomer can twist a throttle. If you routinely go 100 mph, we hope you routinely practice emergency stops from that speed. Keep in mind outright speed will earn a ticket that is tough to fight and painful to pay; cruising the easy straight stuff doesn't attract as much attention from the authorities and sets your speed perfectly for the next sweeper.

Group Mentality

Straights are the time to reset the ranks. The leader needs to set a pace that won't bunch up the followers, especially while leaving a stop sign or passing a car on a two-lane road. The leader must use the throttle hard to get around the car and give the rest of the group room to make the pass, yet he or she can't speed blindly along and earn a ticket for the whole group. With sane speeds on the straights, the gaps can be adjusted easily; the bikes should be spaced about two seconds apart for maximum visibility of surface hazards.

It's the group aspect of the Pace I enjoy most, watching the bikes in front of me click into a corner like a row of dominoes, or looking in my mirror as my friends slip through the same set of corners I just emerged from.

Because there's a leader and a set of rules to follow, the competitive aspect of sport riding is eliminated and that removes a tremendous amount of pressure from a young rider's ego - or even an old rider's ego. We've all felt the tug of racing while riding with friends or strangers, but the Pace takes that away and saves it for where it belongs: the racetrack. The racetrack is where you prove your speed and take chances to best your friends and rivals.

I've spend a considerable amount of time writing about the Pace (see Motorcyclist, Nov. '91) for several reasons, not the least of which being the fun I've had research it (continuous and ongoing). But I have motivations that aren't so fun. I got scared a few years ago when Senator Danforth decided to save us from ourselves by trying to ban superbikes, soon followed by insurance companies blacklisting a variety of sport bikes. I've seen Mulholland Highway shut down because riders insisted on racing (and crashing) over a short section of it. I've seen heavy police patrols on roads that riders insist on throwing themselves off of. I've heard the term "murder-cycles" a dozen times too many. When we consider the abilities of a modern sport bike, it becomes clear that rider techniques is sorely lacking.

The Pace emphasizes intelligent, rational riding techniques that ignore racetrack heroics without sacrificing fun. The skills needed to excel on the racetrack make up the basic precepts of the Pace, excluding the mind-numbing speeds and leaving the substantially larger margin for error needed to allow for unknowns and immovable objects. Our sport faces unwanted legislation from outsiders, but a bit of throttle management from within will guarantee our future.

The Pace Principles

- Set cornering speed early. Blow the entrance and you'll never recover.

- Look down the road.

- Maintaining a high visual horizon will reduce perceived speed and help you avoid panic situations.

- Steer the bike quickly.

- There's a reason Wayne Rainey works out - turning a fast-moving motorcycle takes muscle.

- Use your brakes smoothly but firmly.

- Get on and then off the brakes; don't drag 'em. - Get the throttle on early.

- Starting the drive settles the chassis, especially through a bumpy corner.

- Never cross the centerline except to pass. - Crossing the centerline in a corner is an instant ticket and an admittance that you can't really steer your bike. In racing terms, your lane is your course; staying right of the line adds a significant challenge to most roads and is mandatory for sport riding's future. - Don't crowd the centerline.

- Always expect an oncoming car with two wheels in your lane. - Don't hang off in the corners or tuck in on the straights. Sitting sedately on the bike looks safer and reduces unwanted attention. It also provides a built-in safety margin.

- When leading, ride for the group.

- Good verbal communication is augmented with hand signals and turn signals; change direction and speed smoothly. - When following, ride with the group

- If you can't follow a leader, don't expect anyone to follow you when you're setting the pace."

Nick Ienatsch

Sport Rider Magazine

June 1993

Disclaimer: Information on this page does not reflect the views of my employer or myself. --------------69ADFE83963C05FC747BEA19-- From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 31 20:43:25 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id UAA12134; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 20:43:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id UAA16454; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 20:43:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp1.erols.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id UAA15348; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 20:43:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LOCALNAME (frd-as1s22.erols.com [207.172.110.22]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA13436; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 20:44:13 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 20:44:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970731204534.361fd276@pop.erols.com> X-Sender: squeaks@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Brian McCoy", , From: Squeakers Subject: Re: Re[2]: Rookie MCP Cop > > Perhaps YOU should read the posts more carefully. In no way did I >attribute the quote to you; it was a DIRECT QUOTE from another >respondent. Check your ego, Squeak. Not everything on this list is >SOLELY related to you. Brian! My little friend! Nice to hear from you again! Where ya been? Whats the matter? You finally decide to stop sulking just cuz I called you on your little impertinence a few months back? Good boy! > > > But eveything on this list of any level of volitale nature is > squeakers domain. So, from her perspective, everything is related to > her.... s'ok, it's interesting to read for awhile, then gets old and > deleted like the rest of the trash... AWWWWW, Brian. And here I was thinkin you were tryin to make amends. Damn, the male ego is such a fragile thing, aint it? Ill try and be a little more gentle with you from now on, Ok, honey? I didnt realize you were so sensitive. Sorry. Squeakers From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 31 22:53:59 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA13171; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 22:53:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA17473; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 22:53:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp1.erols.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id WAA19881; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 22:53:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LOCALNAME (frd-as1s07.erols.com [207.172.110.7]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA10707; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 22:52:49 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 22:52:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970731225408.2e6741a2@pop.erols.com> X-Sender: squeaks@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tjoseph@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Squeakers Subject: Re: Rookie MCP Cop At 05:13 PM 7/31/97 -0400, tjoseph@XXXXXX wrote: >Squeakers: > > Perhaps YOU should read the posts more carefully. In no way did I >attribute the quote to you; it was a DIRECT QUOTE from another >respondent. Check your ego, Squeak. Not everything on this list is >SOLELY related to you. > This isnt fair. Brian quoted you, without using any >>'s or anything to let me know the words werent originating with him, so I already responded to it. THEN I got YOUR post. Ah, well. Actually, though, Brian clone, my ego IS in check. The way I see it, we NEED people like you in this country. Otherwise, who would we have to look down on, and feel superior over? Really now. I think my ego's just fine, thank you. > And I do maintain my original stance. No, license or not, taxpayer or >not, you have no right to roadway. It's is a privilege, granted by the >state, which the state regulates. You have a right to freedom of >speech, you have a right to be free of unreasonable searches and >seizures, you have a right to worship in the religion of your choice. >There is no right to free roadway, regardless of whether you are >licensed and complying with all laws. Basic civics would have taught >you that. It seems you are the one who needs to read a few books. >Better yet, read the Constitution sometime; I'm sure it would enlighten >you. But Bri..um, whatever your name is, if Ive done all the work to GET the "privilege" of riding legally on a "state owned" highway, I then consider it my legal right. As long as I continue MY part of the obligations for riding legally, then why should I relinquish these legally earned rights for no other reason than to please a Rookie cop that's obviously in the wrong? You can lie down and be submissive to whoever (or is that whomever?) happens to challenge you, but I personally believe in standing up for myself. I have no respect for sheep. They live off the rights that others have fought for, and are eager to relinquish them rather than face a confrontation. Cowards. > > In a general way, my post did concern you though. People who >constantly harangue "I'm defending my rights, I'm defending my rights" >frequently have no idea what their rights are. This seems to be the >case here. > On the contrary. People that defend their rights are the ones that have courage. The conviction to face confrontation and the inconvenient unpleasantness that will probably result from this. They are the leaders, the brave souls that keep a country strong. The cowards and weak lie down like dogs and submit to the whims of anyone that might cause them inconvenience. If people arent even willing to stand up for the smaller rights, how will they have the strength to challenge threats to the larger ones? Dont try and justify your cowardice by rationalizing it as "good for society as a whole". Cowardice has never resulted in good for anyone. Dont worry, there will always be REAL men and women willing to fight to protect your rights. Get a backbone, man. Squeakers