From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 08:25:39 2003 Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 08:29:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" From: Steve Miller To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" on 6/30/03 10:45 PM, Bruce Brownlee at brownlee_b@XXXXXX wrote: > everyone wants to be a libertarian when it comes to the stuff they want to do. > but lifting a speed limit applies to minivans and suv's too..... I'm sure > most > here would say (based on past postings) 'oh, not those people. they cant > drive.' > > the same applies to the total arrogance of the lane splitting arguement..... > but thats a whole nother can of worms. :-) Sounds to me like you're denying any inherent difference between motorcycles and cars, which is itself preposterous. Next you'll say that parking rules should be the same, one motorcycle per painted space, please. Or that an MC should only be considered an HOV when it's ridden 2-up? Earth to Bruce, motorcycles are different from cars, and it MAY just be okay for different laws to apply to them. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 08:57:39 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 08:57:27 EDT Subject: Re: dc-cycles digest for 06/29/03 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/29/2003 10:53:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Dave@XXXXXX writes: > Differential speed kills, > speed in > and of itself does not. Damn! I wrote 2 pages to say that and you say it in 10 words. > the engineering design of the road will > accomodate is but a piece of that. > The interstate system was designed for 80mph. And that was back when cars (and bikes) handled like tanks and had crappy brakes. The problem is and always has been _bad drivers._ Get the bastards off the road! John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 09:06:19 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 09:06:09 EDT Subject: Re: So, how screwed am I? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Just remembered. If you use the "grease the easy out to catch the chips" option. Rotate the engine so that the exhaust valve is open and place a compressed air blower in the exhaust pipe _LOSELY!_ you are not trying to pressurize anything, just create an airflow _out_ of the plug hole past the easy out. This will prevent even more chips from dropping into the head. Wear eye protection! Aluminum chips in the eye are a bad thing. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 09:10:54 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: , Subject: Re: dc-cycles digest for 06/29/03 Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 09:13:31 -0400 It's not speed that kills, it's those sudden decelerations. One of my big beefs with "highway safety" campaigns is that they are largely composed of a set of prohibitions: thou shall not speed, thou shall not commit acts of road rage. Kinda like the War on (Some) Drugs, a bunch of absolutes are somehow supposed to enhance safety. Building driving skills gets pushed aside when driving becomes an exercise in adhering to a set of rules. Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org ----- Original Message ----- From: > In a message dated 6/29/2003 10:53:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > Dave@XXXXXX writes: > > > Differential speed kills, > > speed in > > and of itself does not. > > Damn! I wrote 2 pages to say that and you say it in 10 words. > > > the engineering design of the road will > > accomodate is but a piece of that. > > > > The interstate system was designed for 80mph. And that was back when cars > (and bikes) handled like tanks and had crappy brakes. > > The problem is and always has been _bad drivers._ Get the bastards off the > road! > > > John Walters (Long John) .... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 09:12:39 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 09:12:30 EDT Subject: Re: 2-Wheels in Europe To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/30/2003 12:38:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, pawilson@XXXXXX writes: > I can't tell you the number of times people (civilians) ask me what > bike I have, "It's a Honda, a VFR, sport-touring bike, mumble, mumble." The > eyes glaze over as soon as the H is followed by an "o" and not an "a." They do not even ask me. I have am big, have a beard, sooooo....... You ride a HONDA??????????? People! John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 09:27:23 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 09:27:11 EDT Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/30/2003 10:45:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, brownlee_b@XXXXXX writes: > we're talking reckless driving, by definition, above 80mph. LEGAL DEFINITION! A damn sight different from reality, 80 is not and never has been reckless or even dangerous _in and of itself_. What you are saying is the equivalent of passing a law that says "it is dark between 12 noon and 1pm." and insisting that it is in fact dark because the law says so. Nonsense! John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 09:35:51 2003 From: To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: So, how screwed am I? Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 9:35:41 -0400 Also using WD40 or Liquid Wrench and letting it soak in would be beneficial. cheers, -aki > > From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX > Date: 2003/07/01 Tue AM 09:06:09 EDT > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: So, how screwed am I? > > Just remembered. > If you use the "grease the easy out to catch the chips" option. Rotate the > engine so that the exhaust valve is open and place a compressed air blower in > the exhaust pipe _LOSELY!_ you are not trying to pressurize anything, just > create an airflow _out_ of the plug hole past the easy out. This will prevent even > more chips from dropping into the head. > Wear eye protection! Aluminum chips in the eye are a bad thing. > > > John Walters (Long John) > PenguinBiker@XXXXXX > Up near DC > > > Honda ST1100X Pan European > BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles > Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 12:04:39 2003 Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 12:04:33 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Bruce said: >we arent talking about 'maintaining the flow of traffic' >here. we're talking reckless driving, by definition, above >80mph. [Dave] By statute, in Virginia, driving over 80 mph is a misdemeanor offense of 'Reckless driving'. Sometimes, the officer chooses not to cite the VIOLATOR for the full reckless, which could be for a variety of reasons. From a former deputy friend of mine - he busted someone for cruising well over the limit. Wrote ticket for a lesser speed. Guy showed up in court and pleaded innocent, so my deputy friend testified... in his testimony it came out that he was trying to give the guy a break and not trash his driving record, blah, blah... case dismissed, and my deputy friend got a stern talking to from the judge. his issue was charging the VIOLATOR with something he wasn't guilty of ( a lesser speed violation ). I know that doesn't happen too often, and certainly, never in UnFairTax. Kevin told me he would typically cut breaks to people he knew weren't acting dangerous, but that since reckless was a misdemeanor, mandatory court appearance, he'd also knock down the charge to hopefully avoid the VIOLATOR from contesting the ticket in the 1st place. He also admitted that 80mph on open stretches of highway was not dangerous, and other than the legal difference, no different than 79mph. I will venture to say that 80 is in fact reckless through the Beltway & 95 interchange construction zone currently, but not once clear of that mess as evidenced by the average flow of traffic ; roughly 75... OTOH, I think the 'posted' 50 limit is low. > >Once again, the poster said: > >>There are places in America, northern Nevada for instance, >>where 75 is too damn slow and higher speeds are in fact >>safer then low speeds. > >as a reminder, the 75mph is the national speed limit. I >interpret "too 'damned' slow" to be a significant statement, >followed by "higher speeds are...safer". [Dave] I was under the impression that there was no (more) nationally mandated speed limit, but that the highest current state speed limit was 75mph. >I have read too much of people who justify their 90mph >sprints as "just trying to stay in front of traffic" when in >fact, you never really are in front. admit you dont think >certain rules apply to you (but probably to others) and quit >wrapping yourself in a conspiracy cloak.... [Dave] Statistically, you *are* safer in front of the 'gaggle' of traffic, than either in it, beside it, or behind it. Obviously, there is a point at which you exceed reason to stay in front of the one tailgating you that _just_has_to_be in front of you, only to park it and drop back to the speed limit. Or the guy who is simply determined to "lead the pack" no matter what speed is necessary to do it. But take away the 'gaggle' of traffic for the sake of arguments, the assertion that 80mph is reckless behavior is patently false, or every state and territory in the Union would have such a law. > >everyone wants to be a libertarian when it comes to the >stuff they want to do. but lifting a speed limit applies to >minivans and suv's too..... I'm sure most >here would say (based on past postings) 'oh, not those >people. they cant drive.' > [Dave] Should the "theoretical" speed limit relaxation apply to minivans & SUV's? These vehicles typically handle worse than cages of the '60's & 70's. And, there's already precedent for a 'discrimnatory' speed limit; in many areas, tractor trailers are not given the privilege of higher speed limits. Of course, this brings us right back to: "speed does not kill in and of itself, differential speed kills"... >the same applies to the total arrogance of the lane >splitting arguement..... >but thats a whole nother can of worms. :-) [Dave] Shall we hijack this email even farther and delve into the nuances of lane splitting ... You're right, it is arrogant in the same principle of arrogance that cagers use to justify their riding a lane all the way until the last possible opportunity to cut into a line of turning cars, coming to a complete stop in the through lane, putting on a signal and awaiting a gap big enough that they can force their way in by either rudeness, or positioning their vehicle such that the afterwards view of an accident by the police would lead them to believe that it was not the 'lane changer's' fault. We should advocate dedicated, narrow subcompact / moto lanes instead of HOV lanes, that way more small vehicles could use them, but it wouldn't be as 'total wheel discriminate' ;-) Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 13:17:52 2003 Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 13:17:24 -0400 From: Dale Horstman To: Dave Yates CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" Dave Yates wrote: > > so my deputy friend > testified... in his testimony it came out that he was trying > to give the guy a break and not trash his driving record, > blah, blah... case dismissed, and my deputy friend got > a stern talking to from the judge. his issue was charging > the VIOLATOR with something he wasn't guilty of ( a lesser > speed violation ). I heard a funny story about something like this once. Same situation, nice cop writes up the ticket for less than he clocked the speeder doing, then gets yelled at by the judge. His answer was priceless: "I clocked the defendant doing 82 mph. When I walked up to his vehicle parked on the shoulder he was doing 0 mph. Between those two extremes he was at one point doing 64 mph, and THAT was the infraction I wrote him up for." The judge had to agree with that. :) -- Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark) Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX "My ambition in life is to Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth minimize my stress level." CM #001 NRA IBA COG '98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer '99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi '82 Suzuki GS850G - Neat old bike From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 13:36:56 2003 Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 13:36:46 -0400 From: Jennthebiker@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: new SV650S and purple monster sold Hi everyone! It's been awhile since I posted --- I've been enjoying my new scoot! About 4.5 weeks ago I purchased a brand new 2002 Suzuki SV650S -- it's a really pretty blue! I'm almost ready to turn over 2300 miles! i absolutely love it! The 2002 models are much shorter than the 2003 and in my opinion look nicer :) I sold the Honda just this past weekend to the woman of a happy couple who just took her MSF course within the past 2 weeks. It's like the end of an era (a short one but still an era!). My new summer Joe Rocket jacket arrived today! woohoo! This is one more pleased customer of NewEnough.com. I'm waiting for my new Camelbak to arrive anyday! I'm considering shaving my new seat to make touching a bit easier. Any recommendations? Some say electric knife others say sand paper? I believe I'll be making an appearance at the Barnes & Noble in Rockville on Thursday. If any of you are there, come find me -- I'll be on the pretty blue SV :) (not to be confused with anyone else on a pretty blue SV!) Still haven't named him yet -- any suggestions? Jenn :) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 13:42:21 2003 From: bernescut@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: interesting phot radar story off FARK Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 13:42:07 -0400 I'm not sure how he was steering, but a nice protest anyway: http://www.metro.co.uk/metro/weird/article.html?in_page_id=4&in_article_id=2 446 Cedric Bernescut 2000 CBR600F4 Annandale, VA From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 13:51:24 2003 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'DCCycles'" Subject: Kudos & Dump Truck Therapy Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 13:54:20 -0400 2-Wheels in Europe: Paul whined, "I can't tell you the number of times people (civilians) ask me what bike I have, "It's a Honda, a VFR, sport-touring bike, mumble, mumble." The eyes glaze over as soon as the H is followed by an "o" and not an "a.". When folks ask me that I reply, "A real motorcycle -- for riding -- not polishing." Then I describe my venerable 85 Honda Sabre. KUDOS: IIRC, others have praised Shenandoah Honda but it's a relief from cussin' You Know Who. Posted on SabMag: Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 21:27:04 -0400 From: Robert C Subject: recommended dealer Almost for got to mention this. On the way down to Jack's house I had a problem with my ST. I'm on I-81 in Pa. and my volt meter starts reading 11 volts. Shit, fried alternator? Or maybe, just a rectifier\regulator? I locate the nearest Honda dealer in Winchester, Virginia, Shenandoah Honda. I'm at their front door when they open in the morning (in the rain, of course). I explain I'm on the road, and having a problem. They have a guy working on the bike in less than twenty minutes. Turns out, the charging system is fine, its the volt meter that's crapped out. Best news I could have. What with pulling plastic, and replacing eventually, they spent more than 30 minutes on it. I'd have been happy to pay them the shop labor rate. They didn't charge anything. Real nice people. I highly recommend them. Bob Long Island, NY '91 ST1100 "STargazer", STOC #931,'87 CBR1000F "Weatherman" COMOAM Dump Truck: Some time ago, someone posted, about left-turning vehicles where the driver didn't see the bike -- and -- asked, "What if I was driving a semi instead of a motorcycle?" Here's an answer from Cleveland: Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 14:46:16 -0400 From: Peter K Subject: Dump truck 1, BDC 0 It's not just us on bikes BDC's don't see. A couple of days ago I saw a note in the "Local" section of the paper saying that somebody coming home made a left turn into his own driveway and "didn't see" the dump truck bearing down on him. You can deny the right of way of a motorcyclist but dump trucks will not be denied. He was dead on the spot. Whoever the truck driver was, he scored one for all motorcyclists. Just trying to cheer you all up. Pete '85 V65 Sabre '83 VT750C Shadow '03 ST1300A3 Carl in Bethesda (So, who rode in today :^) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 14:23:39 2003 Subject: Re: new SV650S and purple monster sold Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 13:21:00 -0500 From: To: , Congrats, on the new Scoot Jenn, good choice... 2300 miles in a month.? Not bad, there are some folks I know who call themselves motorcycle riders who are not getting 2300 miles in a year lately. As to the seat shaving, I did it on my Fazer with both a electric knife and sandpaper blocks, makes a huge mess and you will need a HD stapler to get the seat cover back on. I sculpted my seat to be more Corbin like, it felt lumpy by hand but fine when seated. George >>> Jennthebiker@XXXXXX 07/01/03 01:36PM >>> Hi everyone! It's been awhile since I posted --- I've been enjoying my new scoot! About 4.5 weeks ago I purchased a brand new 2002 Suzuki SV650S - I'm considering shaving my new seat to make touching a bit easier. Any recommendations? Some say electric knife others say sand paper? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 14:49:27 2003 Reply-To: wayne@XXXXXX From: "wayne@XXXXXX" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, Jennthebiker@XXXXXX Subject: RE: new SV650S and purple monster sold Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 14:49:18 -0400 I'm having one of the 'Busa guys modify my stock seat for drag racing. Here are some examples of his work - http://users.adelphia.net/~tobinoc/20022.jpg http://users.adelphia.net/~tobinoc/paul2.jpg http://users.adelphia.net/~tobinoc/images/logoseat.jpg http://users.adelphia.net/~tobinoc/images/seathump2.jpg Contact information: Tobin O'Connor 122 South Main Street York New Salem , PA 17371 1-717-792-3708 Tobinoc@XXXXXX Since I'm short (5'9"), the stepped seat will give me something to push against when launching. As you can see from the pics, his work is top notch and looks better than OEM when completed. I'm sure he can modify your stock seat any way you like. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ Original Message: ----------------- From: Jennthebiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 13:36:46 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: new SV650S and purple monster sold I'm considering shaving my new seat to make touching a bit easier. Any recommendations? Some say electric knife others say sand paper? -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 14:52:09 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 13:52:26 -0500 I find it funny that people think they can outrun traffic in the DC Metro area. After you outrun one "gaggle" of traffic you usually end up behind another one. This especailly holds true on the beltway since it's a big circle. Rob On Tue, 1 Jul 2003 12:04:33 -0400, Dave Yates wrote > > >I have read too much of people who justify their 90mph > >sprints as "just trying to stay in front of traffic" when in > >fact, you never really are in front. admit you dont think > >certain rules apply to you (but probably to others) and quit > >wrapping yourself in a conspiracy cloak.... > > [Dave] Statistically, you *are* safer in front of > the 'gaggle' of traffic, than either in it, beside it, or > behind it. Obviously, there is a point at which you exceed > reason to stay in front of the one tailgating you that > _just_has_to_be in front of you, only to park it and drop > back to the speed limit. Or the guy who is simply determined > to "lead the pack" no matter what speed is necessary to do > it. But take away the 'gaggle' of traffic for the sake of > arguments, the assertion that 80mph is reckless behavior is > patently false, or every state and territory in the Union > would have such a law. > -- Rob Sharp CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 15:51:08 2003 From: "Rob Keiser" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: No Bike Content....Tool Chest For Sale Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 15:39:00 -0400 During my last visit to Sears, I upgraded my tool storage chests, so now I'm selling what I used previously. It's two pieces: (you may have to cut/paste the URL's) Top is: Craftsman 4-Drawer Chest, 26 in. Wide $99.96 Sears Item #00965902000 Mfr. Model #65902 http://www.sears.com/sr/product/summary/productsummary.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@0251468548.1057086553@@@@&BV_EngineID=ccikadcijlmmfkgcehgcemgdffmdflk.0&vertical=TOOL&bidsite=&pid=00965902000 Bottom is: Craftsman 3-Drawer Roll-Away, 26-1/2 in. Wide $159.99 Sears Item #00965903000 Mfr. Model #65903 http://www.sears.com/sr/product/summary/productsummary.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@0251468548.1057086553@@@@&BV_EngineID=ccikadcijlmmfkgcehgcemgdffmdflk.0&vertical=TOOL&fromAuto=YES&bidsite=&pid=00965903000 Both are Red w/ Black drawers and are in great shape. To make up for one of the four keys being broken (don't worry, it's not stuck in one of the locks), I'm including the drawer liners. $150 takes them both, and I'll even deliver it (within a reasonable mile limit, that is). Contact me off list if you're interested Thanks. Rob '98 VFR800 _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 17:27:27 2003 Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 17:28:10 -0400 To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" From: Bob Meyer Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" >on 6/30/03 10:45 PM, Bruce Brownlee at brownlee_b@XXXXXX wrote: > > > > > the same applies to the total arrogance of the lane splitting > arguement..... > > but thats a whole nother can of worms. :-) This tells me you really DON'T know what you're talking about. More than one study (beginning with the famous, and well respected, Hurt Report) has concluded that lane splitting is SAFER than staying in between cars. That's because drivers are inherently better at maintaing lane discipline than speed / distance discipline. To use simple language: they're much more likely to run over you from behind than they are to hit you from the side. You apparently choose not to believe this, but that only displays your ignorance, not the truth. Bob Meyer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 17:52:46 2003 Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 17:52:38 -0400 To: dc-cycles From: Aki Damme Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" At 05:28 PM 7/1/2003, you wrote: >>on 6/30/03 10:45 PM, Bruce Brownlee at brownlee_b@XXXXXX >>wrote: >> >> > >> > the same applies to the total arrogance of the lane splitting >> arguement..... >> > but thats a whole nother can of worms. :-) > > >This tells me you really DON'T know what you're talking about. More >than one study (beginning with the famous, and well respected, Hurt >Report) has concluded that lane splitting is SAFER than staying in >between cars. That's because drivers are inherently better at >maintaing lane discipline than speed / distance discipline. To use >simple language: they're much more likely to run over you from >behind than they are to hit you from the side. > >You apparently choose not to believe this, but that only displays >your ignorance, not the truth. > >Bob Meyer as long as the cages aren't moving: http://www.gazette.net/200326/montgomerycty/updates/165498-1.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 18:16:08 2003 Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 15:16:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" To: dc-cycles I would love to see data supporting lane splitting. I don't believe it. And I love to lane split, btw --- Aki Damme wrote: > At 05:28 PM 7/1/2003, you wrote: > > >>on 6/30/03 10:45 PM, Bruce Brownlee at > brownlee_b@XXXXXX > >>wrote: > >> > >> > > >> > the same applies to the total arrogance of the > lane splitting > >> arguement..... > >> > but thats a whole nother can of worms. :-) > > > > > >This tells me you really DON'T know what you're > talking about. More > >than one study (beginning with the famous, and well > respected, Hurt > >Report) has concluded that lane splitting is SAFER > than staying in > >between cars. That's because drivers are > inherently better at > >maintaing lane discipline than speed / distance > discipline. To use > >simple language: they're much more likely to run > over you from > >behind than they are to hit you from the side. > > > >You apparently choose not to believe this, but that > only displays > >your ignorance, not the truth. > > > >Bob Meyer > > as long as the cages aren't moving: > > http://www.gazette.net/200326/montgomerycty/updates/165498-1.html > > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 18:19:42 2003 Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 18:19:32 -0400 To: dc-cycles From: Aki Damme Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" At 06:16 PM 7/1/2003, you wrote: >I would love to see data supporting lane splitting. I >don't believe it. > >And I love to lane split, btw The only reason I wouldn't lane split is because rednecks like to spit chaw and flick their cigs while at stop lights. yeech.. >--- Aki Damme wrote: > > At 05:28 PM 7/1/2003, you wrote: > > > > >>on 6/30/03 10:45 PM, Bruce Brownlee at > > brownlee_b@XXXXXX > > >>wrote: > > >> > > >> > > > >> > the same applies to the total arrogance of the > > lane splitting > > >> arguement..... > > >> > but thats a whole nother can of worms. :-) > > > > > > > > >This tells me you really DON'T know what you're > > talking about. More > > >than one study (beginning with the famous, and well > > respected, Hurt > > >Report) has concluded that lane splitting is SAFER > > than staying in > > >between cars. That's because drivers are > > inherently better at > > >maintaing lane discipline than speed / distance > > discipline. To use > > >simple language: they're much more likely to run > > over you from > > >behind than they are to hit you from the side. > > > > > >You apparently choose not to believe this, but that > > only displays > > >your ignorance, not the truth. > > > > > >Bob Meyer > > > > as long as the cages aren't moving: > > > > >http://www.gazette.net/200326/montgomerycty/updates/165498-1.html > > > > > > >===== > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! >http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 18:24:33 2003 Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 15:24:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" To: Aki Damme , dc-cycles I am not sure if I actually emailed the list with that or not. Reminds me of one time I was riding in Canada. Very tired, had been on a trip for 3 weeks. Saw some guy in a pickup flick a cig out, then had an intense pain going down my arm. IT HURT. Cursed that SOB out. Got to my hotel, took jacket off. Out came a dead bee........ --- Aki Damme wrote: > At 06:16 PM 7/1/2003, you wrote: > >I would love to see data supporting lane splitting. > I > >don't believe it. > > > >And I love to lane split, btw > > > The only reason I wouldn't lane split is because > rednecks like to > spit chaw and flick their cigs while at stop lights. > yeech.. > > > > > > >--- Aki Damme wrote: > > > At 05:28 PM 7/1/2003, you wrote: > > > > > > >>on 6/30/03 10:45 PM, Bruce Brownlee at > > > brownlee_b@XXXXXX > > > >>wrote: > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > the same applies to the total arrogance of > the > > > lane splitting > > > >> arguement..... > > > >> > but thats a whole nother can of worms. :-) > > > > > > > > > > > >This tells me you really DON'T know what you're > > > talking about. More > > > >than one study (beginning with the famous, and > well > > > respected, Hurt > > > >Report) has concluded that lane splitting is > SAFER > > > than staying in > > > >between cars. That's because drivers are > > > inherently better at > > > >maintaing lane discipline than speed / distance > > > discipline. To use > > > >simple language: they're much more likely to > run > > > over you from > > > >behind than they are to hit you from the side. > > > > > > > >You apparently choose not to believe this, but > that > > > only displays > > > >your ignorance, not the truth. > > > > > > > >Bob Meyer > > > > > > as long as the cages aren't moving: > > > > > > > >http://www.gazette.net/200326/montgomerycty/updates/165498-1.html > > > > > > > > > > > >===== > > > > > >__________________________________ > >Do you Yahoo!? > >SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > >http://sbc.yahoo.com > > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 18:31:29 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Mark Kitchell , Aki Damme , dc-cycles Subject: Was: Speed limits and "categorical BS" now bee/wasp related injuries. Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 17:31:52 -0500 I got to one up you on this one Mark. I was driving my friends car one summer afternoon going to the store to pick up some stuff for a BBQ. Window down, swim trunks and t shirt. Wasp hits the driver's rear view mirror tumbles into the car and down my swin trunks. I got stung in the nut sack 3 times (wasp can sting multiple times). You think a bee sting hurts on your arm :) I was walking funny for a couple days after that one. Swelling sucks. Rob On Tue, 1 Jul 2003 15:24:31 -0700 (PDT), Mark Kitchell wrote > I am not sure if I actually emailed the list with that > or not. > > Reminds me of one time I was riding in Canada. Very > tired, had been on a trip for 3 weeks. > > Saw some guy in a pickup flick a cig out, then had an > intense pain going down my arm. IT HURT. Cursed that > SOB out. > > Got to my hotel, took jacket off. Out came a dead > bee........ > > --- Aki Damme wrote: > > At 06:16 PM 7/1/2003, you wrote: > > >I would love to see data supporting lane splitting. > > I > > >don't believe it. > > > > > >And I love to lane split, btw > > > > > > The only reason I wouldn't lane split is because > > rednecks like to > > spit chaw and flick their cigs while at stop lights. > > yeech.. > > > > > > > > > > > > >--- Aki Damme wrote: > > > > At 05:28 PM 7/1/2003, you wrote: > > > > > > > > >>on 6/30/03 10:45 PM, Bruce Brownlee at > > > > brownlee_b@XXXXXX > > > > >>wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > >> > the same applies to the total arrogance of > > the > > > > lane splitting > > > > >> arguement..... > > > > >> > but thats a whole nother can of worms. :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >This tells me you really DON'T know what you're > > > > talking about. More > > > > >than one study (beginning with the famous, and > > well > > > > respected, Hurt > > > > >Report) has concluded that lane splitting is > > SAFER > > > > than staying in > > > > >between cars. That's because drivers are > > > > inherently better at > > > > >maintaing lane discipline than speed / distance > > > > discipline. To use > > > > >simple language: they're much more likely to > > run > > > > over you from > > > > >behind than they are to hit you from the side. > > > > > > > > > >You apparently choose not to believe this, but > > that > > > > only displays > > > > >your ignorance, not the truth. > > > > > > > > > >Bob Meyer > > > > > > > > as long as the cages aren't moving: > > > > > > > > > > > >http://www.gazette.net/200326/montgomerycty/updates/165498-1.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >===== > > > > > > > > >__________________________________ > > >Do you Yahoo!? > > >SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > > >http://sbc.yahoo.com > > > > > > ===== > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > http://sbc.yahoo.com -- Rob Sharp CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 18:37:08 2003 Subject: RE: Speed limits and "categorical BS" Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 18:37:01 -0400 From: "Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services" To: "Aki Damme" , "dc-cycles" Funny that you should mention angry pickup rednecks. On my ride to work today, I was lanesplitting to the front of a traffic light. The light turned green, so I merged into a regular lane. On the next block, I stopped and waited in line of a left turn lane, and it is then that one of the angry pickup rednecks stopped in the lane to the right of me (blocking traffic) and in a pretty pissed off manner told me that "this is why people like you die on these bikes. Next time I won't hesitate to hit you." I guess he was looking for a reply, but I just nodded in acknowledgement... then he took off. -Witold > -----Original Message----- > From: Aki Damme [mailto:adamme1@XXXXXX] > Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 6:20 PM > To: dc-cycles > Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" > The only reason I wouldn't lane split is because rednecks like to > spit chaw and flick their cigs while at stop lights. yeech.. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 19:54:35 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 19:54:28 EDT Subject: Re: new SV650S and purple monster sold To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/1/2003 1:37:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Jennthebiker@XXXXXX writes: > I'm considering shaving my new seat to make touching a bit easier. Good lord I read that wrong the first time...... John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 20:44:20 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: "dc-cycles" Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 20:44:09 -0400 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec799d50ad8c2c20e19800a595da3481a092350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c > Funny that you should mention angry pickup rednecks. [Dave] I just told my wife that she's a red neck for driving my truck. She wants to know if you want to step outside ;-) On my ride to work today, I was lanesplitting to the front of a traffic light. The light turned green, so I merged into a regular lane. On the next block, I stopped and waited in line of a left turn lane, and it is then that one of the angry pickup rednecks stopped in the lane to the right of me (blocking traffic) and in a pretty pissed off manner told me that "this is why people like you die on these bikes. Next time I won't hesitate to hit you." I guess he was looking for a reply, but I just nodded in acknowledgement... then he took off. [Dave] Argument number one against lane splitting as a regular tactic. It's not culturally accepted around here, and never will be. It's like standing in line at the grocery store, with a rolling basket. I come up from behind, weaving in and out of 'basket' traffic and mosey up to the cash register. Why? Because, MY time is more important than yours.... Dave From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 20:45:06 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 20:44:59 EDT Subject: Re:More categorical bullshit (or ice cream headache) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/29/2003 9:45:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, brownlee_b@XXXXXX writes: > This is the kind of categorical bullshit I was talking about in my first post. > > There is NO case where faster speeds, ESPECIALLY MUCH higher than > the posted speed limit, are 'safer' for everyone. And that is categorical bullshit. I stated the case clearly, you apparently did not bother to read and consider the post. I was not talking about riding at night, so there was no point in even bringing that up. If riding at night the posted speed limit is usually too _high_ for safe operation and I would recommend ignoring the speed limit in that situation also. I clearly stated in my example that visibility was unlimited and there is no cover for any animal that could knock a bike down. BOREDOM/fatigue is a factor in riding/driving and does kill when the stimulus of riding is so low that the mind wanders. Imagine riding around the beltway with no traffic at all at 25mph. keeping your mind on the road, you could never do it, there is just not enough going on to keep anyones attention. That is _exactly_ the situation in northern Nevada (the location I mentioned) And yes the speed limit was created for a reason. In Nevada and a lot of other states it was forced on them by bureaucrats in the district 2,000mi. away with no clue about driving in the west. In that case it is about power, political power. And lets not forget $$$$$ do not even try to tell me that speed limits are set for safety, most are set for profit. Blindly following "leaders" most of whom are cowering behind us, and in the case of traffic laws, usually unelected bureaucrats with no one to answer too is just idiotic. The phrase usually used to justify low limits is that "Most accidents involve speeding" is a bullshit argument. True most accident involve at least one driver who is exceeding the speed limit, at least half of all drivers are exceeding the speed limit so the odds are that in any accident involving two or more cars/bikes _someone_ will be exceeding the limit. The question is did speeding _cause_ or even contribute to the accident? In the vast majority of the case the answer is categorically _NO._ (CA once did a survey that listed _causes_ of accidents speeding came in something like tenth, TENTH! After things like driving on the wrong side of the road.) Speed limits were placed at the fore of enforcement (with the propaganda about "speed kills") when Vascar and then radar made speeding the easy money maker it remains. Enforced by the fuel crisis of the 70s when suddenly skyrocketing fuel costs forced police departments to stop patrolling, driving around looking for people were driving dangerously or in dangerous vehicles, and instead _park_ on the side of the road using little fuel and taking the easy money. (I was riding then, I remember.) ANYTIME you make a generalization you will be wrong about something, somewhere, Federal speed limits are in effect a generalization about "safe speeds" They are wrong when applied in _some_ areas. If we truly believed that "speed kills" we would have to acknowledge "slower is safer" (it is after all the same statement worded differently) we would all be walking. Do not kid yourself that I am exaggerating. Safetycrats will argue that if 50 is safer then 55 then 40 is safer then 50 and if allowed will enact constantly lower limits until we might as well be walking. It was only the refusal to accept the national 55 limit that finally eliminated that national bullshit. Oh BTW I have something like 3 speeding tickets in nearly half a million miles of riding, at least one of them in a blatant speed trap. My goal is not to see how fast I can go. My goal is to ride _safely_ using my own judgment as to the safest speed to travel at any given time, (usually traffic speed, which is usually "speeding.") using our own judgment is something we are all expected to do in inclement weather, and most are capable of using it in good weather also. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 20:51:53 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 20:51:43 EDT Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/1/2003 8:44:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Dave@XXXXXX writes: > It's like standing in line at the grocery store, with a > rolling basket. I come up from behind, weaving in and out of 'basket' > traffic and mosey up to the cash register. Sorry, not really. It is like weaving in and out of the Basket traffic line to go to a "two item" only register when you are the only one with two items. "filtering" when done correctly not only does not have any effect on other traffic it speeds it up by "compressing" the line of traffic, the motorcycle no longer takes up a space in the line. And because motorcycles pull away quickly more vehicles can make it through any given light. It _helps_ traffic, that is why it is legal and expected in most of the rest of the world. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 21:00:11 2003 Subject: RE: Speed limits and "categorical BS" Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 21:00:01 -0400 From: "Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services" To: "Dave Yates" , "dc-cycles" > [Dave] I just told my wife that she's a red neck for driving my truck. She wants to know if you want to step outside ;-) Trust me Dave, I meant no offense to pickup owners. I'm carless, but a pickup is the only vehicle I'm seriously contemplating "picking up"... hehehe... > [Dave] Argument number one against lane splitting as a regular tactic. It's not culturally accepted around here, and never will be. It's like standing in line at the grocery store, with a rolling basket. I come up from behind, weaving in and out of 'basket' traffic and mosey up to the cash register. Why? Because, MY time is more important than yours.... I agree with you, but I would like to think that this attitude can change. The biggest thing that will contribute to an attitude change is 1) more bikes on the road more often, and 2) more bikes lanesplitting. If those two criteria are sufficiently fulfilled, drivers will get used to lanesplitting, start to accept it, and, eventually, learn to expect it :) ... Or maybe they'll run me over and jail anyone lanesplitting... Could be just wishful thinking on my part. --Witold From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 21:07:08 2003 Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 21:07:40 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: RE: Speed limits and "categorical BS" At 09:00 PM 7/1/2003, Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services wrote: >I agree with you, but I would like to think that this attitude can >change. The biggest thing that will contribute to an attitude change is >1) more bikes on the road more often, and 2) more bikes lanesplitting. If >those two criteria are sufficiently fulfilled, drivers will get used to >lanesplitting, start to accept it, and, eventually, learn to expect it :) > >... Or maybe they'll run me over and jail anyone lanesplitting... Could >be just wishful thinking on my part. I lanesplit in the city all the time. People have gotten used to it with the crazy bike messengers running around. But in the suburbs you get too many people swerving towards you and yelling insults. The last time I split a light in Fairfax was a long line of traffic with impending hail. Cops will pull you over for it in the 'burbs. And in VA you may get a reckless ticket for it - because just about everything gets a reckless ticket in VA. _____________________________________ Mike Troutman mike@XXXXXX http://www.troutman.org/vfr '97 Honda VFR 750 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 21:13:55 2003 Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 18:13:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" To: Dave Yates , dc-cycles If you have a special chip in your wallet that automatically calculates whats in the cart and debits it fron your account, thus taking no more than one second away from those waiting in line who do not have that chip....then your analogy may hold water. > > [Dave] Argument number one against lane splitting > as a regular tactic. > It's not culturally accepted around here, and never > will be. waters again> It's like standing in line at the > grocery store, with a > rolling basket. I come up from behind, weaving in > and out of 'basket' > traffic and mosey up to the cash register. Why? > Because, MY time is more > important than yours.... > > Dave > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 21:23:16 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 21:23:06 -0400 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec792acc5728bd2999b78acaf95e176919d0350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c hmm... wonder when somethings gonna nibble on this bait..... > Sorry, not really. [Dave] No need to apologize for being incorrect, John, it happens to all of us once in a while ;-) > It is like weaving in and out of the Basket traffic line to go to a "two > item" only register when you are the only one with two items. "filtering" when > done correctly not only does not have any effect on other traffic it speeds it up [Dave] You are thinking in a purely linear sense; narrow as they are, bikes still take up ten or so feet in a lane - length of the bike, plus your following distance, plus the minute amount of space left behind you because the passive aggressive bdc behind you is now tailgating you... > by "compressing" the line of traffic, the motorcycle no longer takes up a > space in the line. And because motorcycles pull away quickly more vehicles can > make it through any given light. It _helps_ traffic, that is why it is legal and > expected in most of the rest of the world. [Dave] Traffic instinctively ( as instinctive as possible for learned behavior ) slows down as the following distance decreases. Because you've lane split in front of someone, now, they have to wait for you to take off from the 2 or so lanes once the light turns green. Sure, everyone *could* take off together, but if they did, and one car stalled, there'd be a mondo collision, so most people wait for the vehicle directly in front to get 'under way' before applying the throttle. So you *have* delayed the vehicle you cut in front of, either ever so slighly, or maybe you made them miss the next traffic signal by one cage length... Dave From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 21:26:12 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 21:26:02 -0400 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec7983110a15d55c562c8a096100cd3ada4e350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Troutman asserted: > Cops will pull you over for it in the 'burbs. And in VA you may get a > reckless ticket for it - because just about everything gets a reckless > ticket in VA. [Dave] With ONE critical exception - yakking on the cell while driving. Today, I saw 3 people execute a turn while holding a conversation on a cell 1 was a stick shift ... Smooth Operator??? hello ? Dave From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 21:29:42 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: "dc-cycles" Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 21:29:32 -0400 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79c5869ed18a4164e039aa37ec15a0288c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c > If you have a special chip in your wallet that > automatically calculates whats in the cart and debits > it fron your account, thus taking no more than one > second away from those waiting in line who do not have > that chip....then your analogy may hold water. > [Dave] But there's no "special chip" to make more room for a motorcycle - you have to make it yourself in a pre-existing gap between two other vehicles. Your analogy is more like dumb tag vs. coin tossers at toll booths. I'm asserting that since my basket doesn't take up as much room, nor does it pollute as much as the "Lowes Lumber Hauler", I should be allowed to check out 1st. It's perfectly reasonable and, there's no law against it ! :-) Dave From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 21:35:48 2003 X-Originating-Client: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.5; Windows 98; Win 9x 4.90) From: bmckeithen@XXXXXX To: MGCL@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Dont need no stinking Dragon Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 01:35:46 +0000 I have found nirvana. I rode a road today for 31 kilometers and the bike was never vertical except to transition from right to left. Also from sea level to around 3000 feet in that distance. Check a map of Costa Rica. The road runs from Neily to San Vito. No guard rails and about one and a half lanes wide. Bob From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 22:21:34 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Dave Yates" , "dc-cycles" Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 22:21:36 -0400 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Yates" > On my ride to work today, I was lanesplitting to the front of a traffic > light. The light turned green, so I merged into a regular lane. On the > next block, I stopped and waited in line of a left turn lane, and it is then > that one of the angry pickup rednecks stopped in the lane to the right of me > (blocking traffic) and in a pretty pissed off manner told me that "this is > why people like you die on these bikes. Next time I won't hesitate to hit > you." I guess he was looking for a reply, but I just nodded in > acknowledgement... then he took off. > > [Dave] Argument number one against lane splitting as a regular tactic. > It's not culturally accepted around here, and never will be. waters again> It's like standing in line at the grocery store, with a > rolling basket. I come up from behind, weaving in and out of 'basket' > traffic and mosey up to the cash register. Why? Because, MY time is more > important than yours.... > > Dave Mule muffins. Lane-splitting or filtering does not impede traffic, so your basket analogy is not germane. It's not cutting in line, it's doing something a car can't do,, which is to use the leftover bits of asphalt. I'll call it asphalt recycling. I'm a bit mystified how lane-splitting inconveniences any other motorist or delays anyone for a nanosecond. If they get angry it's out of envy, pure and simple. Light changes and I'm gone. Talk about staying ahead of the pack. It's just envy, 'cuz they have to sit in a clusterf^ck largely of their own making. I was thinking about this during the stop'n'go on the 14th St. Bridge this morning. How much more fluid the traffic would be if even 1 in 10 of the vehicles were a motorcycle. Every car/SUV around me had one occupant. Criminy people, something has to give. There just isn't going to be any new pavement of any significance inside the Beltway, ever. That's simply a fact. OK, maybe, I-66 will be widened if the Arlington NIMBYs can be silenced, but that's it. FWIW, here's my modest proposal for I-66 inside the Beltway. If the Arlingtonians want a two-lane I-66, fine. I-66 will be kept to two lanes, but all exits in Arlington will be closed permanently. That's the price of keeping it two lanes. Paul in DC 95 VFR - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 22:34:14 2003 Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 22:34:06 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Aki Damme Subject: Re:More categorical bullshit (or ice cream headache) At 08:44 PM 7/1/2003, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: >.... My goal is to ride _safely_ using my own judgment as to >the safest speed to travel at any given time, (usually traffic >speed, which is >usually "speeding.") using our own judgment is something we are all >expected >to do in inclement weather, and most are capable of using it in good >weather >also. I agree to a point, however I seriously doubt a judge would agree with your self imposed speed limit. Personally, I don't think that speed in itself kills. However, the mixture of speed and slower, unpredictable vehicles on the same road does. Take for example NASCAR. Everyone is doing 150mph. Everything is fine. Then someone in front is going *just* a hair slower than the car behind them. A slight bump and *boom* big crackup with resulting skidding, flamage and taped replays from every angle. And they are ALL professional, highly skilled drivers on a controlled course with a self imposed speed limit. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 22:35:33 2003 Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 22:35:25 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Aki Damme Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" At 08:51 PM 7/1/2003, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: >In a message dated 7/1/2003 8:44:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >Dave@XXXXXX writes: > > > It's like standing in line at the grocery store, with a > > rolling basket. I come up from behind, weaving in and out of > 'basket' > > traffic and mosey up to the cash register. > >Sorry, not really. >It is like weaving in and out of the Basket traffic line to go to a >"two >item" only register when you are the only one with two items. >"filtering" when >done correctly not only does not have any effect on other traffic it >speeds it up >by "compressing" the line of traffic, the motorcycle no longer takes >up a >space in the line. And because motorcycles pull away quickly more >vehicles can >make it through any given light. It _helps_ traffic, that is why it >is legal and >expected in most of the rest of the world. I don't know about you, but personally I do NOT want to be the first to race across an intersection around here. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 22:41:21 2003 Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 22:54:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Sorry, now the rain is going to start... Got my PC3R and PAIR removal kit tonight, so I finished up my exhaust install. http://www.blueblackbusa.org/exhaust/ I picked up the Yosh full system for only $590 delivered to my door, so I couldn't resist. A little more HP, nicer looks and a lot less weight. The exhaust bolted right up without any issues. The PC3R was really easy to install, 4 plugs and a ground wire. Took all of 2 minutes to upload the map from my laptop. I'm getting my TL1000S footpegs tomorrow (per UPS tracking). They're a little slimmer than the stock 'Busa pegs and will give around 1/4" more legroom. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 23:07:43 2003 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: splitting lanes and this group Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 22:56:34 -0400 Lane split if you want, don't if you don't. If you live in the burbs w/o a job you don't have to worry about it. _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 23:08:05 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re:More categorical bullshit (or ice cream headache) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 22:08:30 -0500 I hate to go into the logic of statistics and data analysis but most of you guys are confusing corelation with cause and effect. Just because high speed in a vehicle is corelated with a number of accidents that does not mean that it is the cause of the accident. And there is way to many varibles in the driving equation for anyone to come up with a concrete cause and effect theory to even try to test and prove correct. While corelation is all we have to go on many times to try to convice people of cause and effect there is also a lot of little varibles in many statistical equation that you can "tweak" to make your corelation a "meaniful finding". Data collection can often be flawed too. As many of you mention a lot of times cops may not alway report to the correct speeds on citations. My college data analysis professor would be very upset at you guys. Regards, Rob On Tue, 1 Jul 2003 20:44:59 EDT, PenguinBiker wrote > In a message dated 6/29/2003 9:45:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > brownlee_b@XXXXXX writes: > > > This is the kind of categorical bullshit I was talking about in my first > post. > > > > There is NO case where faster speeds, ESPECIALLY MUCH higher than > > the posted speed limit, are 'safer' for everyone. > > And that is categorical bullshit. > I stated the case clearly, you apparently did not bother to read and > consider the post. I was not talking about riding at night, so there > was no point in even bringing that up. If riding at night the posted > speed limit is usually too _high_ for safe operation and I would > recommend ignoring the speed limit in that situation also. I clearly > stated in my example that visibility was unlimited and there is no > cover for any animal that could knock a bike down. BOREDOM/fatigue > is a factor in riding/driving and does kill when the stimulus of > riding is so low that the mind wanders. Imagine riding around the > beltway with no traffic at all at 25mph. keeping your mind on the > road, you could never do it, there is just not enough going on to > keep anyones attention. That is _exactly_ the situation in northern > Nevada (the location I mentioned) And yes the speed limit was > created for a reason. In Nevada and a lot of other states it was > forced on them by bureaucrats in the district 2,000mi. away with no > clue about driving in the west. In that case it is about power, > political power. And lets not forget $$$$$ do not even try to tell > me that speed limits are set for safety, most are set for profit. > Blindly following "leaders" most of whom are cowering behind us, and > in the case of traffic laws, usually unelected bureaucrats with no > one to answer too is just idiotic. The phrase usually used to > justify low limits is that "Most accidents involve speeding" is a > bullshit argument. True most accident involve at least one driver > who is exceeding the speed limit, at least half of all drivers are > exceeding the speed limit so the odds are that in any accident > involving two or more cars/bikes _someone_ will be exceeding the > limit. The question is did speeding _cause_ or even contribute to > the accident? In the vast majority of the case the answer is > categorically _NO._ (CA once did a survey that listed _causes_ of > accidents speeding came in something like tenth, TENTH! After things > like driving on the wrong side of the road.) Speed limits were > placed at the fore of enforcement (with the propaganda about "speed > kills") when Vascar and then radar made speeding the easy money > maker it remains. Enforced by the fuel crisis of the 70s when > suddenly skyrocketing fuel costs forced police departments to stop > patrolling, driving around looking for people were driving > dangerously or in dangerous vehicles, and instead _park_ on the side > of the road using little fuel and taking the easy money. (I was > riding then, I remember.) ANYTIME you make a generalization you will > be wrong about something, somewhere, Federal speed limits are in > effect a generalization about "safe speeds" They are wrong when > applied in _some_ areas. If we truly believed that "speed kills" we > would have to acknowledge "slower is safer" (it is after all the > same statement worded differently) we would all be walking. Do not > kid yourself that I am exaggerating. Safetycrats will argue that if > 50 is safer then 55 then 40 is safer then 50 and if allowed will > enact constantly lower limits until we might as well be walking. It > was only the refusal to accept the national 55 limit that finally > eliminated that national bullshit. Oh BTW I have something like 3 > speeding tickets in nearly half a million miles of riding, at least > one of them in a blatant speed trap. My goal is not to see how fast > I can go. My goal is to ride _safely_ using my own judgment as to > the safest speed to travel at any given time, (usually traffic speed, > which is usually "speeding.") using our own judgment is something > we are all expected to do in inclement weather, and most are capable > of using it in good weather also. > > John Walters (Long John) > PenguinBiker@XXXXXX > Up near DC > > Honda ST1100X Pan European > BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles > Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer -- Rob Sharp CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 23:29:10 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: "dc-cycles" Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 23:28:58 -0400 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79f194e35d50f93b7d2fa41003ede08b70350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Finally, some bait takers... > > [Dave] Argument number one against lane splitting as a regular tactic. > > It's not culturally accepted around here, and never will be. > waters again> It's like standing in line at the grocery store, with a > > rolling basket. I come up from behind, weaving in and out of 'basket' > > traffic and mosey up to the cash register. Why? Because, MY time is more > > important than yours.... > > > > Dave > > > Mule muffins. Lane-splitting or filtering does not impede traffic, so your > basket analogy is not germane. [Dave] C'mon Paul, surely, you can do better. Sooner or later, unless you are far more of a traffic scofflaw than I, you must assume a lane position which is not between them, at which point you are in front of somebody, but not totally ahead of everyone as has been previously pointed out. >It's not cutting in line, it's doing > something a car can't do,, which is to use the leftover bits of asphalt. [Dave] Ok, then I'm "linoleum" recycling, by taking my small basket of widgets past all the fat honking 4 roller baskets full of food piloted by Fijian immigrants who don't speak any english and are bound and determined to use either unexchanged Fijian currency, or an out of country check. > I'll call it asphalt recycling. I'm a bit mystified how lane-splitting > inconveniences any other motorist or delays anyone for a nanosecond. [Dave] See above you must at some point enter a lane during the filter process. The person you cut in front of is now behind you. More than likely, that person must accelerate less to accomodate following distance thanks to your (what I refer to as ) "NoVA Lane change" which is stuffing a vehicle into a gap of 1.5 car lengths or less. > If they get angry it's out of envy, pure and simple. Light changes and I'm > gone. Talk about staying ahead of the pack. It's just envy, 'cuz they have > to sit in a clusterf^ck largely of their own making. [Dave] But you are not blameless in the encounter, in fact, you provoked it (withrow? ). Are they justified in performing an impact test on your helmet? No, but the "encounter" wouldn't have happened, but for impatience. But a scant few days ago, some of us were excoriating Witold for "setting a bad example" and the like > I was thinking about > this during the stop'n'go on the 14th St. Bridge this morning. How much > more fluid the traffic would be if even 1 in 10 of the vehicles were a > motorcycle. [Dave] Oh the humanity!? Can you imagine the carnage if we forced BDC's to scooter it to work? ... OTOH... think how much clearer the road would be after the carnage... Maybe you're on to something here, Mr. Wilson... Jeepers. > Every car/SUV around me had one occupant. Criminy people, > something has to give. There just isn't going to be any new pavement of any > significance inside the Beltway, ever. That's simply a fact. OK, maybe, > I-66 will be widened if the Arlington NIMBYs can be silenced, but that's it. > > FWIW, here's my modest proposal for I-66 inside the Beltway. If the > Arlingtonians want a two-lane I-66, fine. I-66 will be kept to two lanes, > but all exits in Arlington will be closed permanently. That's the price of > keeping it two lanes. [Dave] You know what's missing from all these "community forums" where a new transportation project is proposed? Nation of Islam "repeaters". All we need are for Governor Warner to propose the added lanes, followed by a chorus of "Amen, Brother"... :-) They're not going far enough... Make it 12 lanes inside the beltway! Dave From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 23:30:01 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: Re: Re:More categorical bullshit (or ice cream headache) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 23:29:50 -0400 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79afdef7d08b337ea37d91b01c7862f4ae350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c > Personally, I don't think that speed in itself kills. However, the > mixture of speed and > slower, unpredictable vehicles on the same road does. [Dave] Is there an echo in here??? ;-) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 23:31:30 2003 Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 23:31:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Dave Paper To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Sorry, now the rain is going to start... On Tue, 1 Jul 2003, Wayne Edelen wrote: [snip] No less than 30 minutes after you send this, I received this in my mailbox: -- From: 9 Weather <9news@XXXXXX> Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 22:31:47 -0400 Subject: Overnight Forecast 7/1/03 Reply-To: tshutt@XXXXXX Dear Dave, Heavy rain is on the way. The remnants of 'Bill' will spread heavy rain into the Metro Area during the day Wednesday and throughout Wednesday night into early Thursday. One to three inches of rain will be common. -- Wayne, can you take your pipes back off your bike, pretty please? :) -dave '96 Vulcan 1500 -- cerberus@XXXXXX Little bunny Cthulhu hopping through the forest, www.ginch.org picking up fieldmice and ripping out their souls. Your screams, my music. Fight the break of dawn. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 23:32:32 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: Re: Re:More categorical bullshit (or ice cream headache) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 23:32:20 -0400 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79bc2630ea098f6396295eeda2cb0907f4350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Rob commented: > My college data analysis professor would be very upset at you guys. > [Dave] Does he/she lane split & speed? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 02:40:40 2003 Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 02:35:10 -0400 From: Carl Parker To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: Was:Speed limits, Now:Bee/Wasp stings? Moto content: I think all speed limits are BS and that we should all blatently disregard them and do everything we can to kill ourselves off because of some strange hate for imposed conventions that I'm going defend myself from by wrapping myself in a "conspiracy cloak". I suggest we do this first by wheelying to work everyday at unsafe speeds - meaning, of course, anything over 80mph - then by painting middle fingers on all our bikes and jackets just to say FU to the stupid cagers which _everyone_ on the list clearly thinks are a bunch of slack jawed troglodytes that can't drive. Lastly we carry around tools to steal speed limit signs and hang them upside down from overpasses so that all will know motorcyclists are a force to be dealt with. Solidarity brother... Oh and BTW, to anyone who's riding a bike other than mine in any manner other than how I ride...you're all morons..yup that's right. Everyone knows my bike is the best and I AM the absolute apex of all human riding skills so everyone else only "thinks" they're riders but in actually they're nothing but a bunch of flimsy whiney little girly wanna-be riders with stupid little flabby engines they're affraid to take past the speed limit. Fookin' outrageous! Gawd damn, ya know after a while... :^P Non moto content : Rob reeled: >I got stung in the nut sack 3 times (wasp can sting multiple times). You think a >bee sting hurts on your arm :) I was walking funny for a couple days after >that one. Swelling sucks. I got stung in the ass by a wasp too when I apparently sat one one in the back seat of my freinds car. 15 minutes into the car ride and I'm like "OWW!!! WTF?!?!?" Move over and I'm sitting on a fookin' wasp. Only minimal swelling but my ass itched like hell...Ya know I can't/don't even want to imagine being stung in the jewels three times. I think Rob takes the cake on this one.... Carlo From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 06:02:15 2003 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 03:01:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Todd Withrow Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > It _helps_ traffic, > that is why it is legal and > expected in most of the rest of the world. > In much of the rest of the world, a motorcycle is not given the right to occupy a whole lane by itself. Therefore, it lane splits out of necessity brought on by the cagers attempting to occupy the space claimed by the "inferior" vehicle. My problem with lane splitting is that many American motorcyclist are unskilled. Unfortunately, were it legal, I would fear the condition of my truck. I have repeatedly seen riders that could not negotiate the 8' wide main travel lane, let alone the 2' gap between cages. And of course once that rider clips my truck with his front brake, thereby sending him hurtling over the bars, we now have an "official" wreck possibly requiring rescue and police intervention. Sorry, but traffic is screwed enough as it is, and my truck is dinged enough as it is. ===== AIM: Inf DS http://www.geocities.com/mtwithrow ----------------------------------------------------------- Used to be that we "worldproofed" our children. Now society wants to childproof the world. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 06:06:27 2003 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 03:06:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Todd Withrow Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" To: Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Dave Yates wrote: > [Dave] Smooth Operator??? hello ? > > Dave > Did they execute the maneuver smoothly? If so, no harm no foul. If not, was the violation so egregious that it warranted intervention? If not, see above "no foul" reference. If so, then do your civic duty can get a warrant. ===== AIM: Inf DS http://www.geocities.com/mtwithrow ----------------------------------------------------------- Used to be that we "worldproofed" our children. Now society wants to childproof the world. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 06:11:35 2003 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 03:11:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Todd Withrow Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" To: Paul Wilson , Dave Yates , dc-cycles --- Paul Wilson wrote: > I'm a bit mystified > how lane-splitting > inconveniences any other motorist or delays anyone > for a nanosecond. One bike does little to slow them, but what about 8 or 9? What happens when the BDCs are halfway down the block and still have bikes between them? > FWIW, here's my modest proposal for I-66 inside the > Beltway. If the > Arlingtonians want a two-lane I-66, fine. I-66 will > be kept to two lanes, > but all exits in Arlington will be closed > permanently. That's the price of > keeping it two lanes. LOL, I actually like that. Write that up and send it in to Dr. Gridlock. See what kind of response you get. ===== AIM: Inf DS http://www.geocities.com/mtwithrow ----------------------------------------------------------- Used to be that we "worldproofed" our children. Now society wants to childproof the world. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 06:18:30 2003 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 03:18:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Todd Withrow Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" To: Dave Yates , dc-cycles --- Dave Yates wrote: >> > [Dave] But you are not blameless in the encounter, > in fact, you provoked it > (withrow? ). Are they justified in performing an > impact test on your > helmet? Hey! How did I get brought up by name into this?!?!?! ===== AIM: Inf DS http://www.geocities.com/mtwithrow ----------------------------------------------------------- Used to be that we "worldproofed" our children. Now society wants to childproof the world. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 07:24:30 2003 Reply-To: "Jon Strang" From: "Jon Strang" To: "dc-cycles" Subject: delete button tip ( was Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS") Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 07:24:27 -0400 In Outlook, you can use and to highlight multiple selections in your inbox, then hit the "X". It deletes them all at once! --jon From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 07:47:47 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 07:47:39 EDT Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/1/2003 9:23:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Dave@XXXXXX writes: > > [Dave] No need to apologize for being incorrect, John, it happens to all of > us once in a while ;-) ME? Apologize? Allow me to point out that I rarely "filter" myself, between riding a big (physical size) bike and just not riding in the district all that much _I_ am not really comfortable with it. _But_I_do_understand_it_, hey I have ridden in CA where it is legal. > [Dave] You are thinking in a purely linear sense; narrow as they are, bikes > still take up ten or > so feet in a lane - length of the bike, plus your following distance, No, not really. The cars in the front of the line have already pulled up as far as they are going to, bikes will pull into the space in front of that (or alongside) taking up _no_ additional space. > left behind you because the passive aggressive bdc behind you is now > tailgating you... Unless I am on a mo-ped I can fix that damn fast. > most people > wait for the vehicle directly in front to get 'under way' before applying > the throttle. So you *have* > delayed the vehicle you cut in front of, either ever so slighly, or maybe If you do "filter" you have the responsibility to use your bikes quickness to get the hell out of the way as quickly as possible, cutting the delay to a fraction of a second. Yes there will still be a delay but less then the delay that would be there anyway if you were in the traffic lane taking up a real car space and unable to accelerate out of the way. Also _multiple_ bikes can fit into that same space instead of each taking up its 10ft or so and with only one delay instead of multiple delays one for each bike. I think we would all agree that motorcycles are a great solution to congestion and parking problems. On that assumption _everything_ should be done that can be done to encourage people who can ride to ride. One of the ways that can be done is to allow us to use our vehicles unique abilities in moving through traffic. As riders we all know that playing stop and go (as I did last night) is a miserable experience, we do not have air conditioning keeping us cool and (most) do not have an entertainment system on our bikes. We just have to sit there straddling a furnace in the hot sun, rain, cold. How many more of us, and others, would ride bikes and thereby help reduce traffic congestion if we could skip the misery of roasting in traffic? John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 07:53:08 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 07:52:56 EDT Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/1/2003 10:42:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dchondarider@XXXXXX writes: > That's the price of > keeping it two lanes. Hell making it 4 lane is EASY! Just a little paint down the center of existing lanes. And making it bikes only.... John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 07:58:57 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 07:58:48 EDT Subject: Re: More categorical bullshit (or ice cream headache) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/1/2003 10:47:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, adamme1@XXXXXX writes: > I agree to a point, however I seriously doubt a judge would agree > with your self > imposed speed limit. I never said that #:-) > I would prefer realistic speed limits to begin with. And drivers with brains. > However, the > mixture of speed and > slower, unpredictable vehicles on the same road does. Absofrikinlootly. But ridiculously low speed limits encourage the speed mix, there is always someone who believes the bullshit, the rest try to be reasonable. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 08:00:11 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 08:00:04 EDT Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/1/2003 10:51:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, adamme1@XXXXXX writes: > I don't know about you, but personally I do NOT want to be the first > to race across > an intersection around here. Did I say to do it without looking? John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 08:08:43 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 08:08:33 EDT Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/2/2003 6:11:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mtwithrow@XXXXXX writes: > What happens when the BDCs are halfway down the > block and still have bikes between them? Teach the riders which controll makes the bike go. (Throttle) John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 10:05:30 2003 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 07:05:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Steve Noe Subject: Not just the red necks (cig butt flipping out window) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Yuppies may not indulge in 'chaw' but the smokers among them seem unaware that their cars have ashtrays. Or turn signals in more than a few cases. Steve '86 SRX600 now road-legal! > -----Original Message----- > From: Aki Damme [mailto:adamme1@XXXXXX] > Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 6:20 PM > To: dc-cycles > Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" > The only reason I wouldn't lane split is because rednecks like to > spit chaw and flick their cigs while at stop lights. yeech.. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 10:19:10 2003 Subject: Re: delete button tip ( was Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS") From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 02 Jul 2003 10:13:09 -0400 Yea? In Ximian Evolution I can set up a filter to move this into a special folder and have them marked as read. It's easy and you don't have to keep highlighting multiple selections and hitting 'X' since this thread doesn't seem to be ending ;-) Evil Overlord Carl On Wed, 2003-07-02 at 07:24, Jon Strang wrote: > In Outlook, you can use and to highlight multiple selections > in your inbox, then hit the "X". It deletes them all at once! > > --jon > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 10:46:15 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Dave Yates" , "dc-cycles" Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 10:49:08 -0400 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Yates" > > Mule muffins. Lane-splitting or filtering does not impede traffic, so > your > > basket analogy is not germane. > > [Dave] C'mon Paul, surely, you can do better. Sooner or later, unless you > are far more of a traffic scofflaw than I, you must assume a lane position > which > is not between them, at which point you are in front of somebody, but not > totally > ahead of everyone as has been previously pointed out. So, I'm impeding someone merely by being in front of them? Never mind that in the time it takes them to bite off another piece of jelly donut, or another Starbucks slurp, and reach of the accelerator pedal, I'm half a block away. Cue Rodney King, can't we all just get along? To me getting angry at a motorcyclist for manuevering in traffic makes as much sense as getting angry at someone in a truck because he's towing a boat. We're just doing what our vehicles do. BTW, the narrowness of my motorbikes and bicycles allow me to shift left at a light (if I'm first in line), allowing cars behind make a right on red. I could just sit there blocking the whole lane and piss everyone off. Hey, no "lane-splitting on me, butthole" like some road nanny drivers have behaved toward me on a both human and gasoline-powered two-wheelers . So to repeat, can't we all just get along, using the characteristics of various vehicles to make the traffic flow better? The "filtering is rude" argument reminds me a little of the joyless Road Puritans and finger-wagging scolds who write into Dr. Gridlock. These people, like those who whine about the "zipper merge," really need to get a life. Paul in DC, who's writing a memoir called, "Confessions of a Motorcycle Filterer." From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 11:01:17 2003 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 11:14:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: dc-cycles Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" On Wed, 2 Jul 2003, Paul Wilson wrote: > Cue Rodney King, can't we all just get along? To me getting angry at a > motorcyclist for manuevering in traffic makes as much sense as getting angry > at someone in a truck because he's towing a boat. We're just doing what our > vehicles do. BTW, the narrowness of my motorbikes and bicycles allow me to > shift left at a light (if I'm first in line), allowing cars behind make a > right on red. I could just sit there blocking the whole lane and piss > everyone off. Hey, no "lane-splitting on me, butthole" like some road nanny > drivers have behaved toward me on a both human and gasoline-powered > two-wheelers . So to repeat, can't we all just get along, using the > characteristics of various vehicles to make the traffic flow better? The > "filtering is rude" argument reminds me a little of the joyless Road > Puritans and finger-wagging scolds who write into Dr. Gridlock. These > people, like those who whine about the "zipper merge," really need to get a > life. Preach on, Brother Paul! It's not ever going to happen, though. :-( People are rude and jealous. I see it while driving my cars and my bike. They will cut you off, block your progress and generally drive like assholes if they can get away with it. Cars create anonymity and people enjoy the power they can wield on the highway. It's like the Internet. People sling insults back and forth without thinking about it. 99.999999% of those people wouldn't even look you in the eye if you confronted them in person. I've done it. It's the same thing with autos. I've had people cut me off or nearly kill me and we end up at the same destination (Wally World, gym, grocery store, whatever). When I confront them about their infraction, they run for cover. It's my opinion that a lot of these people are truly miserable and they want to project a little of that unhappiness on the rest of us that are actually enjoying life. :-) -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 15:27:27 2003 Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 15:27:12 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: wayne@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Sorry, now the rain is going to start... I'll bring the rope. Someone pick a tree. We'll string him up by his.......... ;-) Scooter In a message dated 7/1/2003 9:54:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, wayne@XXXXXX writes: > > > Got my PC3R and PAIR removal kit tonight, so I finished up my exhaust > install. > > http://www.blueblackbusa.org/exhaust/ > > I picked up the Yosh full system for only $590 delivered to my door, so I > couldn't resist. A little more HP, nicer looks and a lot less weight. > The exhaust bolted right up without any issues. The PC3R was really easy > to install, 4 plugs and a ground wire. Took all of 2 minutes to upload > the map from my laptop. > > I'm getting my TL1000S footpegs tomorrow (per UPS tracking). They're a > little slimmer than the stock 'Busa pegs and will give > around 1/4" more > legroom. > > -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 16:35:07 2003 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 13:35:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Leon Begeman Subject: Re: Dont need no stinking Dragon To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- bmckeithen@XXXXXX wrote: > I have found nirvana. I rode a road today for 31 > kilometers and the bike was > never vertical except to transition from right to > left. Also from sea level > to around 3000 feet in that distance. Check a map of > Costa Rica. The road > runs from Neily to San Vito. No guard rails and > about one and a half lanes > wide. Perhaps I read something wrong here. Isn't the Dragon a lot closer than either Neily or San Vito? Or is this just an opportunity to get back at the Jordans for their recent trip? Leon. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 17:17:03 2003 Subject: Tire Thread From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 02 Jul 2003 17:12:43 -0400 Ok, I'm ready for a new thread. Since I'm going on a trip next month and since I need new tires (and brakes), I need some advise. My friend here recommends Avon Venoms (well, he said Viper but I can't find anything with that name). Other suggestions are to get a radial but make sure you get the right sized tire. Anyway, any suggestions on tires? I was looking at discountmotorcycletires.com as a place to get cheap tires. Later, Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 17:21:23 2003 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 14:21:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Hugh Caldwell Subject: Re: Dont need no stinking Dragon To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I have no idea. But the Devils Backbone in western Mexico is approx 90miles of non stop twisties and little crosses where people have flown off the side of the mountain. Actually nearly all of Central America is packed with great roads. Hugh --- Leon Begeman wrote: > --- bmckeithen@XXXXXX wrote: > > I have found nirvana. I rode a road today for 31 > > kilometers and the bike was > > never vertical except to transition from right to > > left. Also from sea level > > to around 3000 feet in that distance. Check a map > of > > Costa Rica. The road > > runs from Neily to San Vito. No guard rails and > > about one and a half lanes > > wide. > > Perhaps I read something wrong here. Isn't the > Dragon > a lot closer than either Neily or San Vito? > > Or is this just an opportunity to get back at the > Jordans for their recent trip? > > Leon. > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > http://sbc.yahoo.com > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 19:03:49 2003 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 16:03:41 -0700 (PDT) From: matthew patton Subject: Re: Couple gets 39 million from Outback? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Skip Smith wrote: > the individual should be held responsible for their actions, not the > restraunt, IMO I definately agree. Here in stupid-Chicago-land a bar got it's license yanked (justifiably) after serving the -OH group of chemicals to some high schoolers fresh out of graduation. This came to public attention because said foursome of morons decided to drive around at 100mph and cream their car into a solid object. All died on the scene. Yet, NONE of the news shows properly highlighted that the blame lay squarely with the dumb-asses who were driving at that speed. Instead it was all the bar's fault. Time needs to run that 80's cover of the year again: "nation of cry-babies". Indeed. ===== * Love, not time, heals all wounds. * No one is perfect until you fall in love with them. And then when they aren't perfect anymore, love makes them perfect again. * Everyone wants to live on top of the mountain, but all the happiness and growth occurs while you're climbing it * You can not forgive unless you first love. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 19:48:00 2003 From: "Michael Jordan" To: Subject: Re: Dont need no stinking Dragon Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 19:47:50 -0400 > > I have found nirvana. I rode a road today for 31 > > kilometers and the bike was > > never vertical except to transition from right to > > left. > Perhaps I read something wrong here. Isn't the Dragon > a lot closer than either Neily or San Vito? > Or is this just an opportunity to get back at the > Jordans for their recent trip? 3,800 km over two weeks - mostly on the sides of the tires... ;-) Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 19:48:52 2003 Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 19:47:57 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: Tire Thread At 05:12 PM 7/2/2003, Carl Schelin wrote: >Other suggestions are to get a radial but make sure you get the right >sized tire. > >Anyway, any suggestions on tires? I was looking at >discountmotorcycletires.com as a place to get cheap tires. I have stuck with Dunlops and been very happy. I hated the original D205s, then loved the D207s and new D205s which have been replaced by the D220. Good mileage and excellent stick for S/T. _____________________________________ Mike Troutman mike@XXXXXX http://www.troutman.org/vfr '97 Honda VFR 750 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 20:02:42 2003 Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 20:03:08 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Bruce Brownlee Subject: Re: lane splitting I'm glad you all took my bait. It served well at confirming what I was trying to point out. We do what we do out of arrogance, and justify it as 'helping others'. I do not fault someone as much if they can just admit that fact. Lane filtering does not help the flow of traffic and speeding is not safer. But it sure helps US get where we want to go faster. Screw the rest of em, they shoulda bought bikes. And if one of em gets pissed off at me and retaliates, well, I will certainly be in the right! Come on guys, just admit it and it will all be over. Pushing everyone back 7 feet (when you stop at the next light) doesnt solve a thing. The people who were behind you are still behind you (in the same spot) and the ones who werent, well, they can just live with it and race me to the next stoplight. who cares if I have to block the sidewalk. I GOT PLACES TO GO!!! There are places where faster speeds are allowed and there are places where filtering is allowed (or expected). Theres also places where after a leisurely 3 day trial you are executed for speaking out against your leaders (or using derogatory descriptions for same). However you feel about any of that, we dont have either here. Everyone keeps proving my point by trying to pull out one experience or another, or some 'study' backing up their wishes. The libertarian movement would be taken so much more seriously if they just admitted they arent for 'no laws' (I KNOW thats not their platform) but were just for 'let me speed/smoke dope/have a hooker/whatever cuz i'm not hurting anyone'... When it all comes down to it, its just self-centered arrogance.... Not that theres anything wrong with that. Everyone has looked over at the mommyvan hauling one brat to school while talking on the cell phone and thought "you know, they make school buses." Or maybe that Sr Citizen couple headed south with the 32' trailer and thought "Why do you have to do that during rush hour?" Or the soccermom in the land-yacht that "uses more gas leaving the driveway than I do all day" When it comes down to it, because they pay taxes too, they have just as much right to be at the front of the line (in the right lane!) as anyone else, no matter what they drive.... Except for truckers... I hate them... No matter how much they pay in taxes... Make em drive from 11pm to 5am.... No, wait. Then we cant go 100mph on the interstates in the middle of the night.... Aww hell, I dont care. As long as I get where I'm going with minimal inconvenience. And if you dont like my free flow exhaust, get over it... I'm just expressing myself. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 20:52:27 2003 Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 20:46:59 -0400 From: Carl Parker To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: Delete buttons and Splitters -Bloody Splitters!!!- This is some of the funniest shiznizzle I've read in a long time. Talk about whiffing pitches...we rock... - Delete buttons- Not to put too fine a point on things: Jon sed: >In Outlook, you can use and to highlight multiple selections > in your inbox, then hit the "X". It deletes them all at once! > See now Jon this is part of the problem. While you had good intentions of teaching people how to delete threads you gave them poorly worded directions. Kinda like how all the people on this thread you can no longer stand would all proabably agree once they realized that everyone is basically saying "you gotta ride your own ride and it's your ass not mine so to each his own." It's kinda like you ever try to put those desks or TV consoles together but the dude writting the directions is a tard so you end up glueing your ass to the side panel? Point is it's miscommunication...or comunication breakdown...it's always the same...I'm having a nervous brakedown...drive me insaaaaanneee... So clarity and consideration is key.... Not that it matters, but it should have gone like this if you really wanted to be informative.... ;) "In Outlook, or any other selection screen for that matter, you can hold down the button and select individual adjacent or non-adjacent items to make a group. If you hold down the button while selecting you will select all items within' your specified range but not individually. Once your group has been selected then hit the key and you won't have to hurt your brains trying to keep up with a seemingly eternal thread." Carlo" Just because it's not quiet doesn't mean it's noise" Parker From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 20:58:25 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 20:58:14 EDT Subject: Re: Delete buttons and Splitters To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/2/2003 8:52:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, carl@XXXXXX writes: > I'm having a nervous brakedown...drive me > insaaaaanneee... Front or rear? #:-) > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 20:58:39 2003 Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 20:53:19 -0400 From: Carl Parker To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" , pawilson@XXXXXX Subject: Motorcycle courtesy... Excellent question because it's impossible to answer. Yeah...unanswerable questions...I sure do like those. IMHO good post BTW. Ciao for now, Carlo ------------- PW sed: >Cue Rodney King, can't we all just get along? To me getting angry at a motorcyclist for manuevering in traffic makes as much sense as getting angry at someone in a truck because he's towing a boat. We're just doing what our vehicles do. BTW, the narrowness of my motorbikes and bicycles allow me to shift left at a light (if I'm first in line), allowing cars behind make a right on red. I could just sit there blocking the whole lane and piss everyone off. Hey, no "lane-splitting on me, butthole" like some road nanny drivers have behaved toward me on a both human and gasoline-powered two-wheelers . So to repeat, can't we all just get along, using the characteristics of various vehicles to make the traffic flow better? The "filtering is rude" argument reminds me a little of the joyless Road Puritans and finger-wagging scolds who write into Dr. Gridlock. These people, like those who whine about the "zipper merge," really need to get a life. Paul in DC, who's writing a memoir called, "Confessions of a Motorcycle Filterer." From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 3 07:50:46 2003 Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 07:47:35 -0400 From: "Steven C. Di Pietro" To: DCCycles Subject: 4th. of July Helmet Protest Ride. Md. DC. Va. X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at pop016.verizon.net from [141.157.123.23] at Thu, 3 Jul 2003 06:50:34 -0500 Hi All, Me, I always ride with a helmet and always will, even if the laws change. But, I've ridden in protests like this one with A.B.A.T.E., and worn my helmet, in support of those who would like to see the law changed. If you've got the time................. Steven C. Di Pietro Interim National Director The Suzuki Owners Club -USA 16 W. Jeffrey Street Baltimore Md. 21225-1713 http://www.soc-usa.org 1996 Suzuki Katana 600 2001 Suzuki Marauder 800 NOTICE: 4th OF JULY HELMET PROTEST RIDE. Our 3rd annual ride. We will meet at the Hooters Restaurant in Rockville at 2:00pm and go for a ride in and around Montgomery County with or without your HELMET, your choice. One thing different this year, is we are going to ride by Senator Frosh's house in Bethesda. He in the one person who prevented us from having a choice whether we wear a helmet or not as adults. He keeped the bill from being voted on in his committee by keeping it his desk and not allowing the Senators on his committee vote on it, because he knew we had the votes to get it out of his committee and to get it out of the Senate. He disrespected us and the Senators who sponsored the bill and the Senators on his committee, bet he know what is best for us! I know a lot of people go to the races in Frederick because of tradition, but this should be the year to start another tradition until the adult helmet law is repealed. We will end up going back to Hooters, regrouping and then going down to watch the DC fire works from the George Washington Parkway in VA. Hope to see all some time soon. David J. Sherman ABATE of Maryland, Inc. Montgomery County Chapter Director From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 3 08:22:45 2003 Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 05:22:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: 4th. of July Helmet Protest Ride. Md. DC. Va. To: DCCycles Why would anyone want to ride without a helmet? --- "Steven C. Di Pietro" wrote: > Hi All, > > Me, I always ride with a helmet and always will, > even if the laws > change. But, I've ridden in protests like this one > with A.B.A.T.E., and > worn my helmet, in support of those who would like > to see the law > changed. If you've got the time................. > > > Steven C. Di Pietro > Interim National Director > The Suzuki Owners Club -USA > 16 W. Jeffrey Street > Baltimore Md. 21225-1713 > http://www.soc-usa.org > 1996 Suzuki Katana 600 > 2001 Suzuki Marauder 800 > > > NOTICE: > > 4th OF JULY HELMET PROTEST RIDE. > Our 3rd annual ride. We will meet at the Hooters > Restaurant in > Rockville at 2:00pm and go for a ride in and around > Montgomery County > with or without your HELMET, your choice. One thing > different this > year, is we are going to ride by Senator Frosh's > house in Bethesda. He > in the one person who prevented us from having a > choice whether we wear > a helmet or not as adults. He keeped the bill from > being voted on in > his committee by keeping it his desk and not > allowing the Senators on > his committee vote on it, because he knew we had the > votes to get it out > of his committee and to get it out of the Senate. He > disrespected us and > the Senators who sponsored the bill and the Senators > on his committee, > bet he know what is best for us! > > I know a lot of people go to the races in Frederick > because of > tradition, but this should be the year to start > another tradition until > the adult helmet law is repealed. > > We will end up going back to Hooters, regrouping and > then going down to > watch the DC fire works from the George Washington > Parkway in VA. > > Hope to see all some time soon. > > David J. Sherman > ABATE of Maryland, Inc. > Montgomery County Chapter Director > > > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 3 08:36:12 2003 Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 08:34:58 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Mark Kitchell CC: DCCycles Subject: Re: 4th. of July Helmet Protest Ride. Md. DC. Va. Mark Kitchell wrote: > Why would anyone want to ride without a helmet? Now, Mark, you know the answer to that. A helmet is designed to protect your brain from injury if you fall offa the bike. No brain, no helmet needed. Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 3 10:30:57 2003 Subject: Re: 4th. of July Helmet Protest Ride. Md. DC. Va. From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 03 Jul 2003 10:26:38 -0400 On Thu, 2003-07-03 at 08:34, William J. Huson wrote: > Mark Kitchell wrote: > > > Why would anyone want to ride without a helmet? > > Now, Mark, you know the answer to that. A helmet is designed to protect > your brain from injury if you fall offa the bike. No brain, no helmet > needed. > So if you have a 3/4 helmet you only have 3/4 of a brain? And if you have a half-helmet (or beanie), you only have half a brain? What about the statements that you only use 10% of your brain power anyway? Does that mean we could use a yarmulka helmet? Just enough to cover the bald spot? Man, that explains a lot. > Bill > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 3 11:17:13 2003 From: "Perry Coleman" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: 4th. of July Helmet Protest Ride. Md. DC. Va. Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 11:01:11 -0400 I'm not sure, but judging from David's writing, he appears to already have sufficient brain-damage. Wearing a helmet, or not, probably won't make much difference... Perry >From: "Steven C. Di Pietro" >To: DCCycles >Subject: 4th. of July Helmet Protest Ride. Md. DC. Va. >Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 07:47:35 -0400 > >Hi All, > > Me, I always ride with a helmet and always will, even if the laws >change. But, I've ridden in protests like this one with A.B.A.T.E., and >worn my helmet, in support of those who would like to see the law changed. >If you've got the time................. > > >Steven C. Di Pietro >Interim National Director >The Suzuki Owners Club -USA >16 W. Jeffrey Street >Baltimore Md. 21225-1713 >http://www.soc-usa.org >1996 Suzuki Katana 600 >2001 Suzuki Marauder 800 > > >NOTICE: > >4th OF JULY HELMET PROTEST RIDE. >Our 3rd annual ride. We will meet at the Hooters Restaurant in Rockville >at 2:00pm and go for a ride in and around Montgomery County with or without >your HELMET, your choice. One thing different this year, is we are going >to ride by Senator Frosh's house in Bethesda. He in the one person who >prevented us from having a choice whether we wear a helmet or not as >adults. He keeped the bill from being voted on in his committee by keeping >it his desk and not allowing the Senators on his committee vote on it, >because he knew we had the votes to get it out of his committee and to get >it out of the Senate. He disrespected us and the Senators who sponsored the >bill and the Senators on his committee, bet he know what is best for us! > >I know a lot of people go to the races in Frederick because of tradition, >but this should be the year to start another tradition until the adult >helmet law is repealed. > >We will end up going back to Hooters, regrouping and then going down to >watch the DC fire works from the George Washington Parkway in VA. > >Hope to see all some time soon. > >David J. Sherman >ABATE of Maryland, Inc. >Montgomery County Chapter Director > > > _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 3 11:22:05 2003 Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 08:21:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: 4th. of July Helmet Protest Ride. Md. DC. Va. To: Perry Coleman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Oh man, I never read the entire thing. LOL Lets keeped it real man! Don't disrespect me! --- Perry Coleman wrote: > I'm not sure, but judging from David's writing, he > appears to already have > sufficient brain-damage. Wearing a helmet, or not, > probably won't make much > difference... > > Perry > > >From: "Steven C. Di Pietro" > > >To: DCCycles > >Subject: 4th. of July Helmet Protest Ride. Md. DC. > Va. > >Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 07:47:35 -0400 > > > >Hi All, > > > > Me, I always ride with a helmet and always > will, even if the laws > >change. But, I've ridden in protests like this one > with A.B.A.T.E., and > >worn my helmet, in support of those who would like > to see the law changed. > >If you've got the time................. > > > > > >Steven C. Di Pietro > >Interim National Director > >The Suzuki Owners Club -USA > >16 W. Jeffrey Street > >Baltimore Md. 21225-1713 > >http://www.soc-usa.org > >1996 Suzuki Katana 600 > >2001 Suzuki Marauder 800 > > > > > >NOTICE: > > > >4th OF JULY HELMET PROTEST RIDE. > >Our 3rd annual ride. We will meet at the Hooters > Restaurant in Rockville > >at 2:00pm and go for a ride in and around > Montgomery County with or without > >your HELMET, your choice. One thing different this > year, is we are going > >to ride by Senator Frosh's house in Bethesda. He > in the one person who > >prevented us from having a choice whether we wear a > helmet or not as > >adults. He keeped the bill from being voted on in > his committee by keeping > >it his desk and not allowing the Senators on his > committee vote on it, > >because he knew we had the votes to get it out of > his committee and to get > >it out of the Senate. He disrespected us and the > Senators who sponsored the > >bill and the Senators on his committee, bet he know > what is best for us! > > > >I know a lot of people go to the races in Frederick > because of tradition, > >but this should be the year to start another > tradition until the adult > >helmet law is repealed. > > > >We will end up going back to Hooters, regrouping > and then going down to > >watch the DC fire works from the George Washington > Parkway in VA. > > > >Hope to see all some time soon. > > > >David J. Sherman > >ABATE of Maryland, Inc. > >Montgomery County Chapter Director > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months > FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 3 12:06:37 2003 Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 12:06:00 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: perrycoleman@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: 4th. of July Helmet Protest Ride. Md. DC. Va. I was gonna comment on that but, it's not nice to pick on those with a disability. ;-) Scooter In a message dated 7/3/2003 10:01:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, perrycoleman@XXXXXX writes: > > > I'm not sure, but judging from David's writing, he appears to already have > sufficient brain-damage. Wearing a helmet, or not, probably won't make much > difference... > > Perry > > >From: "Steven C. Di Pietro" > >To: DCCycles > >Subject: 4th. of July Helmet Protest Ride. Md. DC. Va. > >Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 07:47:35 -0400 > > > >Hi All, > > > > Me, I always ride with a helmet and always will, even if the laws > >change. But, I've ridden in protests like this one with A.B.A.T.E., and > >worn my helmet, in support of those who would like to see the law changed. > >If you've got the time................. > > > > > >Steven C. Di Pietro > >Interim National Director > >The Suzuki Owners Club -USA > >16 W. Jeffrey Street > >Baltimore Md. 21225-1713 > >http://www.soc-usa.org > >1996 Suzuki Katana 600 > >2001 Suzuki Marauder 800 > > > > > >NOTICE: > > > >4th OF JULY HELMET PROTEST RIDE. > >Our 3rd annual ride. We will meet at the Hooters Restaurant in Rockville > >at 2:00pm and go for a ride in and around Montgomery County with or without > >your HELMET, your choice. One thing different this year, is we are going > >to ride by Senator Frosh's house in Bethesda. He in the one person who > >prevented us from having a choice whether we wear a helmet or not as > >adults. He keeped the bill from being voted on in his committee by keeping > >it his desk and not allowing the Senators on his committee vote on it, > >because he knew we had the votes to get it out of his committee and to get > >it out of the Senate. He disrespected us and the Senators who sponsored the > >bill and the Senators on his committee, bet he know what is best for us! > > > >I know a lot of people go to the races in Frederick because of tradition, > >but this should be the year to start another tradition until the adult > >helmet law is repealed. > > > >We will end up going back to Hooters, regrouping and then going down to > >watch the DC fire works from the George Washington Parkway in VA. > > > >Hope to see all some time soon. > > > >David J. Sherman > >ABATE of Maryland, Inc. > >Montgomery County Chapter Director > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > _____ > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 3 13:35:08 2003 Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:34:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Leon Begeman Subject: Re: 4th. of July Helmet Protest Ride. Md. DC. Va. To: DCCycles --- Mark Kitchell wrote: > Why would anyone want to ride without a helmet? 1) When in the infield at Summit Point, it's a lot easier to get from one part of the track to another by leaving all the gear in a pile at the pits. 2) When moving the bike from my garage to my son's garage (150' up the street) not wearing a helmet means I don't have to carry it back with me when I walk home. 3) After tuning the carb, it seems silly to put a helmet on to ride around the block and see if the motor runs well enough to go any distance. 4) When riding the dirt bike to go get the cows, the dirt bike can stand a lot more weather and dirt than the helmet, therefore it would take significant extra effort to keep the helmet clean enough to wear. I admit that I haven't had this problem since Dad quit farming. 5) When riding on open range roads in western SD, you've got to ride slow enough to avoid the cows in the road anyway, when putting along at 15 mph on a summer day on a gravel road, the lack of a helmet doesn't significantly increase one's risk of injury. 6) It's all of a piece with Bruce Brownlee's comment about libertarians, I don't want to wear a helmet primarily because someone tells me I have to. It's none of your damned business. And if you're going to use insurance as a reason, then get yours from Geico. Leon. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 3 14:30:39 2003 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'DCCycles'" Subject: Tire Thread & Ice Cream Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 14:33:35 -0400 Evil Carl eagerly contributed: . . . need new tires (and brakes), I need some advise. My friend here recommends Avon Venoms (well, he said Viper but I can't find anything with that name). Other suggestions are to get a radial but make sure you get the right sized tire. Anyway, any suggestions on tires? I was looking at discountmotorcycletires.com as a place to get cheap tires. Depends on which tires. Shop around: Here's my "cheap tire sources" updated this spring from several sources: X just received a new D205 rear for my VFR from http://www.tireexpress.com. Ordered a 170/60zr17 at 3:00 PM on Tuesday. It arrived today. Total price $110.95 ($101.95 plus $9.00 shipping/handling). This is a pretty good price, better than all 4 of these places Jack Hunt posted: http://www.discountmotorcycletire.com $109 plus $14 shipping http://www.chaparral_racing.com $133.99 plus shipping ??? (Their magazine prices are way cheaper than the catalog or web prices) http://www.cycledepot.net $106.74 plus actual shipping ??? http://www.parts411.com $128.38 plus actual shipping ??? And everybody's favorite (not) MAW (Motorcycle Accessory Whorehouse) http://www.accwhse.com $106.95 plus shipping (and they won't have it in stock, but tell you it is. Expect 3 days to 3 weeks for delivery. And from tire express's sister company http://www.compacc.com $107.05 plus shipping. Y sed: Just go to www.swmototires.com I have had nothing but good deals, service, and fast shipping from them. I ordered more than a dozen tires last season alone from them. Another good place is Kim Leong at www.Casporttouring.com. Not much of a web page but if you call him, his prices are a couple bucks cheaper than SW and he carries disco's on stuff like Givi. Z offered: Ron Ayers is killing them on price, in fact he's the best I've found. AA echoed: Just to chime in here....the $8.00 shipping per tire still doesn't overwhelm the large difference in price...with the shipping Ron Ayers is still almost $23 cheaper for a set of tires. I don't know about other people but $23 is significant enough to make me choose Ron Ayers. YMMV http://www.ronayers.com/tires/tires.cfm?man=mez More categorical bullshit (or ice cream headache) Penguin Biker boldly proposed: "I would prefer realistic speed limits to begin with. And drivers with brains." CC: Yeah, in our dreams. "> However, the mixture of speed and slower, unpredictable vehicles on the same road does. Absofrikinlootly. But ridiculously low speed limits encourage the speed mix, there is always someone who believes the bullshit, the rest try to be reasonable." CC: In a rare event, one Sunday the 270 left lane was clear of LL Hogs. I was following a cage doing 80-85 (GPS & Sigma 800 speed) on 270 in the clear left lane through Gaithersburg. Spotting one of MD's finest olive drabs coming up, I pulled to the next lane, let him pass and slowed to the prevailing traffic. The speed indicators showed I had slowed to 70. (Yes, the cage driver not checking his six, was receiving a performance award a bit down the road. Another green hood was soon sniffing my rear, but I had slowed to 55 prepping for Democracy.) _ _ _ _ Aki Alleged > I don't know about you, but personally I do NOT want to be the first to race across an intersection around here. PB/LJ quipped: "Did I say to do it without looking?" CC: Two snaps and a triple "Yeah, don't be a dumbass" 8^P Lane splitting or not, a right-left check should be a habit in this area. (funny thing. In Santo Domingo, cars on through streets beep when approaching a side street with a stop sign. It's to notify anyone to not run the stop sign -- which is the S.O.P.) _ _ _ _ Wihrow wrote: "What happens when the BDCs are halfway down the block and still have bikes between them?" CC: It ain't a problem in Spain or the Dominican Republic. Maybe they're more civilized -- or -- they've killed off the traffic idiots. _ _ _ _ Steve Noe noted, . . .smokers among them seem unaware that their cars have ashtrays. > -----Original Message----- Aki, The only reason I wouldn't lane split is because rednecks like to spit chaw and flick their cigs while at stop lights." CC: Once upon a time a guy in a convertible flipped a butt that landed on my Suzuki (RIP). The butt ended up in his back seat. ("When opportunity falls in your lap . . ." :^ ) Jon Strang suggested, "In Outlook, you can use and to highlight multiple selections in your inbox, then hit the "X". It deletes them all at once!" CC: First click on Subject in the header and it'll line 'em all up for your deleting pleasure. Paul Wilson wisely proposed, "Cue Rodney King, can't we all just get along? To me getting angry at a motorcyclist for manuevering in traffic makes as much sense as getting angry at someone in a truck because he's towing a boat. Wayne Essayed, "Preach on, Brother Paul! It's not ever going to happen, though. :-(" CC: Aye not in MD. The MD Assembly & MVA is so screwed up with regard to road wisdom. It'll take decades to clear the ignorance. WE: "Cars create anonymity and people enjoy the power they can wield on the highway." CC: A car pool companion once observed, "If people had their name and phone number on their cars, the wouldn't try that stupid shit." So, naturally in MD, even with a license number you can't get their name and number nor get MD to act (If an officer didn't see it . . .) Oh, IIRC, in the early 50's Disney did a cartoon where Goofy after entering his car, became an arrogant monster. Not much has changed. Carl in Bethesda From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 3 15:21:14 2003 From: Daniel To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: question again regarding insurance (statefarm jerk) Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 15:21:01 -0400 Alright I checked my policy and it doesn't state what they'd pay out, or how they would calculate their values. The adjuster is saying because it's a theft they only pay me what they believe a bike would sell for at a dealership, and my upgrades (with reciepts) aren't paid for. He said if it had been a wreck, they would pay for that stuff. Does that sound right? If I went to court, would a judge give me a verdict based on a standard value + reciepts of the upgrades or would he just say the upgrades are irrellevant and give me a book value? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 3 15:25:19 2003 From: bernescut@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: question again regarding insurance (statefarm jerk) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 15:24:59 -0400 My experience with State Farm is that they paid for my centerstand (not stock) and exhaust (not stock) for which I had receipts, but the several hundred dollars in brand new tires, chain and sprockets were not reimbursed because they were considered routine maintenance. Cedric Bernescut 2000 CBR600F4 Annandale, VA -----Original Message----- From: Daniel [mailto:motorcycle@XXXXXX] Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 2:21 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: question again regarding insurance (statefarm jerk) Alright I checked my policy and it doesn't state what they'd pay out, or how they would calculate their values. The adjuster is saying because it's a theft they only pay me what they believe a bike would sell for at a dealership, and my upgrades (with reciepts) aren't paid for. He said if it had been a wreck, they would pay for that stuff. Does that sound right? If I went to court, would a judge give me a verdict based on a standard value + reciepts of the upgrades or would he just say the upgrades are irrellevant and give me a book value? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 3 21:47:10 2003 From: "Mobacc" To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: 4th OF JULY HELMET PROTEST RIDE. Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 21:45:27 -0400 >From the peanut gallery only because it's an instant issue -- Motorcycle Times arriving today reported that twist of the wrist neighbor Pennsylvania is a legislative gimme away from helmetless operation (some qualifying factors -- 21+, MSF, 2yrsM'ed) . A.B.A.T.E. is credited. Details for riding there on a non-PA license weren't mentioned. Bill S. / DC '99 VN750 > Hmmm. Change abrewing in the colonies. Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From: "Steven C. Di Pietro" ...snip NOTICE: 4th OF JULY HELMET PROTEST RIDE. Our 3rd annual ride. We will meet at the Hooters Restaurant in Rockville at 2:00pm and go for a ride in and around Montgomery County with or without your HELMET, your choice. ...snip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 3 22:10:26 2003 Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 22:09:22 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Mobacc CC: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: 4th OF JULY HELMET PROTEST RIDE. Mobacc wrote: > >From the peanut gallery only because it's an instant issue -- Motorcycle > Times arriving today reported that twist of the wrist neighbor Pennsylvania > is a legislative gimme away from helmetless operation (some qualifying > factors -- 21+, MSF, 2yrsM'ed) . A.B.A.T.E. is credited. Hmm... Do tell, what is "2yrsM'ed"? If that means married for two years, that piece of legislation won't last five seconds under a court challange. Insurance compays use personal profiles to determine rates, but I seriously doubt a law containing such blatant discrimination will hold up. Bill > > > Details for riding there on a non-PA license weren't mentioned. > > Bill S. / DC > '99 VN750 > Hmmm. Change abrewing in the colonies. > Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 4 00:14:42 2003 Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 00:14:08 -0400 To: "William J. Huson" , Mobacc From: Bob Meyer Subject: Re: 4th OF JULY HELMET PROTEST RIDE. Cc: DC-Cycles At 10:09 PM 7/3/03 -0400, William J. Huson wrote: >Mobacc wrote: > > > >From the peanut gallery only because it's an instant issue -- Motorcycle > > Times arriving today reported that twist of the wrist neighbor Pennsylvania > > is a legislative gimme away from helmetless operation (some qualifying > > factors -- 21+, MSF, 2yrsM'ed) . A.B.A.T.E. is credited. > >Hmm... Do tell, what is "2yrsM'ed"? If that means married for two years, that >piece of legislation won't last five seconds under a court challange. >Insurance compays use personal profiles to determine rates, but I seriously >doubt a law containing such blatant discrimination will hold up. I think that means two years with an "M"otorcycle endorsement on your license. Bob Meyer '92 Candy Glory Red ST1100, STOC # 1157 "If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning. " From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 4 09:30:16 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Custer, Carl" , "'DCCycles'" Subject: Re: Tire Thread & Ice Cream Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 09:33:16 -0400 www.discountmotorcycletire.com did pretty well by me. I needed tahrs (tires) shipped to my friend's house in Missouri, so I could change them mid-trip. Anyhow, Chaparral absolutely refused to ship to another address on a credit card order. So, I gave DMT a try. Very impressed, as they dropped shipped the tires direct from their distributor. The tires arrived three biz days after I placed the order, and for $4 less than Chaparral. DMT charges for shipping by distance, so the cost may be higher to the East Coast. DMT is located in Arvada, Colo. For ice cream headaches, don't eat it so fast. :) Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'DCCycles'" Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 2:33 PM Subject: Tire Thread & Ice Cream > Evil Carl eagerly contributed: > . . . need new tires (and brakes), I need some advise. > My friend here recommends Avon Venoms (well, he said Viper but I can't find > anything with that name). > Other suggestions are to get a radial but make sure you get the right sized > tire. > Anyway, any suggestions on tires? I was looking at > discountmotorcycletires.com as a place to get cheap tires. > > Depends on which tires. Shop around: > Here's my "cheap tire sources" updated this spring from several sources: > X just received a new D205 rear for my VFR from http://www.tireexpress.com. > Ordered a 170/60zr17 at 3:00 PM on Tuesday. It arrived today. Total price > $110.95 ($101.95 plus $9.00 shipping/handling). This is a pretty good > price, better than all 4 of these places Jack Hunt posted: > http://www.discountmotorcycletire.com $109 plus $14 shipping ... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 4 22:01:33 2003 Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 22:02:25 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Happy 4th Hope everyone had a safe and explosive fourth. Mine was great. A little hot, but great. _____________________________________ Mike Troutman mike@XXXXXX http://www.troutman.org/vfr '97 Honda VFR 750 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 4 22:45:21 2003 Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 19:45:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Larry Larson Subject: Re: Happy 4th To: Troutman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Troutman wrote: > Hope everyone had a safe and explosive fourth. Mine was > great. A little hot, but great. Me too. I'm up in Sarnia, Ontario, just northeast of Detroit on Lake Huron. We had fireworks on the Saint Clair River between the US and Canada for Canada Day on July 1, and fireworks for the Fourth of July in the very same spot tonight. One strange deja vu... 8;) --Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jul 5 09:12:09 2003 From: "Anita Lauro" To: Subject: Trip Report - Nova Scotia/Newfoundland Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 09:12:00 -0400 I got back a few days ago from my 2 week tour of Nova Scotia and Newfoundland with the AMA. Overall I had a really great time, and put ~2900 miles on my bike. Here's a link to a long-ish trip report if anyone is interested: http://pub115.ezboard.com/fbmwr1150rmessageboardfrm17.showMessage?topicID=82.topic Way too many pictures can be found here: http://anita.smugmug.com/Travel Enjoy! Anita 2002 R1150R From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 7 06:02:44 2003 Subject: Asphalt Buckling From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 07 Jul 2003 05:58:06 -0400 Watch the rides. There are more bumps on the freeway and in particular in the left lane of HOV just before King (after the Duke onramp?) there was a teeth rattler. I think that one's been there but it's certainly higher this morning (*ow*). Carl, on the morning shift this week. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 7 08:15:22 2003 From: "Anita Lauro" To: Subject: Re: Asphalt Buckling Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 08:15:14 -0400 Driving back from Bar Harbor the other week we came across a section of road in PA where the concrete had "shifted" - I'd say there was at least a 4" tall "step" formed by the misplaced sections. A couple of cars had parked along the side of the road with flat tires. I can only think it was the heat that caused it to happen.. either that or a small earthquake! :-) Anita ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Schelin" To: Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 5:58 AM Subject: Asphalt Buckling > Watch the rides. There are more bumps on the freeway and in particular > in the left lane of HOV just before King (after the Duke onramp?) there > was a teeth rattler. I think that one's been there but it's certainly > higher this morning (*ow*). > > Carl, on the morning shift this week. > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 7 09:33:29 2003 Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 06:33:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Trip Report - Nova Scotia/Newfoundland To: Anita Lauro