From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 08:25:39 2003 Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 08:29:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" From: Steve Miller To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" on 6/30/03 10:45 PM, Bruce Brownlee at brownlee_b@XXXXXX wrote: > everyone wants to be a libertarian when it comes to the stuff they want to do. > but lifting a speed limit applies to minivans and suv's too..... I'm sure > most > here would say (based on past postings) 'oh, not those people. they cant > drive.' > > the same applies to the total arrogance of the lane splitting arguement..... > but thats a whole nother can of worms. :-) Sounds to me like you're denying any inherent difference between motorcycles and cars, which is itself preposterous. Next you'll say that parking rules should be the same, one motorcycle per painted space, please. Or that an MC should only be considered an HOV when it's ridden 2-up? Earth to Bruce, motorcycles are different from cars, and it MAY just be okay for different laws to apply to them. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 08:57:39 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 08:57:27 EDT Subject: Re: dc-cycles digest for 06/29/03 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/29/2003 10:53:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Dave@XXXXXX writes: > Differential speed kills, > speed in > and of itself does not. Damn! I wrote 2 pages to say that and you say it in 10 words. > the engineering design of the road will > accomodate is but a piece of that. > The interstate system was designed for 80mph. And that was back when cars (and bikes) handled like tanks and had crappy brakes. The problem is and always has been _bad drivers._ Get the bastards off the road! John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 09:06:19 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 09:06:09 EDT Subject: Re: So, how screwed am I? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Just remembered. If you use the "grease the easy out to catch the chips" option. Rotate the engine so that the exhaust valve is open and place a compressed air blower in the exhaust pipe _LOSELY!_ you are not trying to pressurize anything, just create an airflow _out_ of the plug hole past the easy out. This will prevent even more chips from dropping into the head. Wear eye protection! Aluminum chips in the eye are a bad thing. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 09:10:54 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: , Subject: Re: dc-cycles digest for 06/29/03 Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 09:13:31 -0400 It's not speed that kills, it's those sudden decelerations. One of my big beefs with "highway safety" campaigns is that they are largely composed of a set of prohibitions: thou shall not speed, thou shall not commit acts of road rage. Kinda like the War on (Some) Drugs, a bunch of absolutes are somehow supposed to enhance safety. Building driving skills gets pushed aside when driving becomes an exercise in adhering to a set of rules. Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org ----- Original Message ----- From: > In a message dated 6/29/2003 10:53:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > Dave@XXXXXX writes: > > > Differential speed kills, > > speed in > > and of itself does not. > > Damn! I wrote 2 pages to say that and you say it in 10 words. > > > the engineering design of the road will > > accomodate is but a piece of that. > > > > The interstate system was designed for 80mph. And that was back when cars > (and bikes) handled like tanks and had crappy brakes. > > The problem is and always has been _bad drivers._ Get the bastards off the > road! > > > John Walters (Long John) .... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 09:12:39 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 09:12:30 EDT Subject: Re: 2-Wheels in Europe To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/30/2003 12:38:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, pawilson@XXXXXX writes: > I can't tell you the number of times people (civilians) ask me what > bike I have, "It's a Honda, a VFR, sport-touring bike, mumble, mumble." The > eyes glaze over as soon as the H is followed by an "o" and not an "a." They do not even ask me. I have am big, have a beard, sooooo....... You ride a HONDA??????????? People! John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 09:27:23 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 09:27:11 EDT Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/30/2003 10:45:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, brownlee_b@XXXXXX writes: > we're talking reckless driving, by definition, above 80mph. LEGAL DEFINITION! A damn sight different from reality, 80 is not and never has been reckless or even dangerous _in and of itself_. What you are saying is the equivalent of passing a law that says "it is dark between 12 noon and 1pm." and insisting that it is in fact dark because the law says so. Nonsense! John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 09:35:51 2003 From: To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: So, how screwed am I? Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 9:35:41 -0400 Also using WD40 or Liquid Wrench and letting it soak in would be beneficial. cheers, -aki > > From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX > Date: 2003/07/01 Tue AM 09:06:09 EDT > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: So, how screwed am I? > > Just remembered. > If you use the "grease the easy out to catch the chips" option. Rotate the > engine so that the exhaust valve is open and place a compressed air blower in > the exhaust pipe _LOSELY!_ you are not trying to pressurize anything, just > create an airflow _out_ of the plug hole past the easy out. This will prevent even > more chips from dropping into the head. > Wear eye protection! Aluminum chips in the eye are a bad thing. > > > John Walters (Long John) > PenguinBiker@XXXXXX > Up near DC > > > Honda ST1100X Pan European > BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles > Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 12:04:39 2003 Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 12:04:33 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Bruce said: >we arent talking about 'maintaining the flow of traffic' >here. we're talking reckless driving, by definition, above >80mph. [Dave] By statute, in Virginia, driving over 80 mph is a misdemeanor offense of 'Reckless driving'. Sometimes, the officer chooses not to cite the VIOLATOR for the full reckless, which could be for a variety of reasons. From a former deputy friend of mine - he busted someone for cruising well over the limit. Wrote ticket for a lesser speed. Guy showed up in court and pleaded innocent, so my deputy friend testified... in his testimony it came out that he was trying to give the guy a break and not trash his driving record, blah, blah... case dismissed, and my deputy friend got a stern talking to from the judge. his issue was charging the VIOLATOR with something he wasn't guilty of ( a lesser speed violation ). I know that doesn't happen too often, and certainly, never in UnFairTax. Kevin told me he would typically cut breaks to people he knew weren't acting dangerous, but that since reckless was a misdemeanor, mandatory court appearance, he'd also knock down the charge to hopefully avoid the VIOLATOR from contesting the ticket in the 1st place. He also admitted that 80mph on open stretches of highway was not dangerous, and other than the legal difference, no different than 79mph. I will venture to say that 80 is in fact reckless through the Beltway & 95 interchange construction zone currently, but not once clear of that mess as evidenced by the average flow of traffic ; roughly 75... OTOH, I think the 'posted' 50 limit is low. > >Once again, the poster said: > >>There are places in America, northern Nevada for instance, >>where 75 is too damn slow and higher speeds are in fact >>safer then low speeds. > >as a reminder, the 75mph is the national speed limit. I >interpret "too 'damned' slow" to be a significant statement, >followed by "higher speeds are...safer". [Dave] I was under the impression that there was no (more) nationally mandated speed limit, but that the highest current state speed limit was 75mph. >I have read too much of people who justify their 90mph >sprints as "just trying to stay in front of traffic" when in >fact, you never really are in front. admit you dont think >certain rules apply to you (but probably to others) and quit >wrapping yourself in a conspiracy cloak.... [Dave] Statistically, you *are* safer in front of the 'gaggle' of traffic, than either in it, beside it, or behind it. Obviously, there is a point at which you exceed reason to stay in front of the one tailgating you that _just_has_to_be in front of you, only to park it and drop back to the speed limit. Or the guy who is simply determined to "lead the pack" no matter what speed is necessary to do it. But take away the 'gaggle' of traffic for the sake of arguments, the assertion that 80mph is reckless behavior is patently false, or every state and territory in the Union would have such a law. > >everyone wants to be a libertarian when it comes to the >stuff they want to do. but lifting a speed limit applies to >minivans and suv's too..... I'm sure most >here would say (based on past postings) 'oh, not those >people. they cant drive.' > [Dave] Should the "theoretical" speed limit relaxation apply to minivans & SUV's? These vehicles typically handle worse than cages of the '60's & 70's. And, there's already precedent for a 'discrimnatory' speed limit; in many areas, tractor trailers are not given the privilege of higher speed limits. Of course, this brings us right back to: "speed does not kill in and of itself, differential speed kills"... >the same applies to the total arrogance of the lane >splitting arguement..... >but thats a whole nother can of worms. :-) [Dave] Shall we hijack this email even farther and delve into the nuances of lane splitting ... You're right, it is arrogant in the same principle of arrogance that cagers use to justify their riding a lane all the way until the last possible opportunity to cut into a line of turning cars, coming to a complete stop in the through lane, putting on a signal and awaiting a gap big enough that they can force their way in by either rudeness, or positioning their vehicle such that the afterwards view of an accident by the police would lead them to believe that it was not the 'lane changer's' fault. We should advocate dedicated, narrow subcompact / moto lanes instead of HOV lanes, that way more small vehicles could use them, but it wouldn't be as 'total wheel discriminate' ;-) Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 13:17:52 2003 Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 13:17:24 -0400 From: Dale Horstman To: Dave Yates CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" Dave Yates wrote: > > so my deputy friend > testified... in his testimony it came out that he was trying > to give the guy a break and not trash his driving record, > blah, blah... case dismissed, and my deputy friend got > a stern talking to from the judge. his issue was charging > the VIOLATOR with something he wasn't guilty of ( a lesser > speed violation ). I heard a funny story about something like this once. Same situation, nice cop writes up the ticket for less than he clocked the speeder doing, then gets yelled at by the judge. His answer was priceless: "I clocked the defendant doing 82 mph. When I walked up to his vehicle parked on the shoulder he was doing 0 mph. Between those two extremes he was at one point doing 64 mph, and THAT was the infraction I wrote him up for." The judge had to agree with that. :) -- Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark) Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX "My ambition in life is to Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth minimize my stress level." CM #001 NRA IBA COG '98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer '99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi '82 Suzuki GS850G - Neat old bike From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 13:36:56 2003 Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 13:36:46 -0400 From: Jennthebiker@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: new SV650S and purple monster sold Hi everyone! It's been awhile since I posted --- I've been enjoying my new scoot! About 4.5 weeks ago I purchased a brand new 2002 Suzuki SV650S -- it's a really pretty blue! I'm almost ready to turn over 2300 miles! i absolutely love it! The 2002 models are much shorter than the 2003 and in my opinion look nicer :) I sold the Honda just this past weekend to the woman of a happy couple who just took her MSF course within the past 2 weeks. It's like the end of an era (a short one but still an era!). My new summer Joe Rocket jacket arrived today! woohoo! This is one more pleased customer of NewEnough.com. I'm waiting for my new Camelbak to arrive anyday! I'm considering shaving my new seat to make touching a bit easier. Any recommendations? Some say electric knife others say sand paper? I believe I'll be making an appearance at the Barnes & Noble in Rockville on Thursday. If any of you are there, come find me -- I'll be on the pretty blue SV :) (not to be confused with anyone else on a pretty blue SV!) Still haven't named him yet -- any suggestions? Jenn :) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 13:42:21 2003 From: bernescut@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: interesting phot radar story off FARK Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 13:42:07 -0400 I'm not sure how he was steering, but a nice protest anyway: http://www.metro.co.uk/metro/weird/article.html?in_page_id=4&in_article_id=2 446 Cedric Bernescut 2000 CBR600F4 Annandale, VA From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 13:51:24 2003 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'DCCycles'" Subject: Kudos & Dump Truck Therapy Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 13:54:20 -0400 2-Wheels in Europe: Paul whined, "I can't tell you the number of times people (civilians) ask me what bike I have, "It's a Honda, a VFR, sport-touring bike, mumble, mumble." The eyes glaze over as soon as the H is followed by an "o" and not an "a.". When folks ask me that I reply, "A real motorcycle -- for riding -- not polishing." Then I describe my venerable 85 Honda Sabre. KUDOS: IIRC, others have praised Shenandoah Honda but it's a relief from cussin' You Know Who. Posted on SabMag: Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 21:27:04 -0400 From: Robert C Subject: recommended dealer Almost for got to mention this. On the way down to Jack's house I had a problem with my ST. I'm on I-81 in Pa. and my volt meter starts reading 11 volts. Shit, fried alternator? Or maybe, just a rectifier\regulator? I locate the nearest Honda dealer in Winchester, Virginia, Shenandoah Honda. I'm at their front door when they open in the morning (in the rain, of course). I explain I'm on the road, and having a problem. They have a guy working on the bike in less than twenty minutes. Turns out, the charging system is fine, its the volt meter that's crapped out. Best news I could have. What with pulling plastic, and replacing eventually, they spent more than 30 minutes on it. I'd have been happy to pay them the shop labor rate. They didn't charge anything. Real nice people. I highly recommend them. Bob Long Island, NY '91 ST1100 "STargazer", STOC #931,'87 CBR1000F "Weatherman" COMOAM Dump Truck: Some time ago, someone posted, about left-turning vehicles where the driver didn't see the bike -- and -- asked, "What if I was driving a semi instead of a motorcycle?" Here's an answer from Cleveland: Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 14:46:16 -0400 From: Peter K Subject: Dump truck 1, BDC 0 It's not just us on bikes BDC's don't see. A couple of days ago I saw a note in the "Local" section of the paper saying that somebody coming home made a left turn into his own driveway and "didn't see" the dump truck bearing down on him. You can deny the right of way of a motorcyclist but dump trucks will not be denied. He was dead on the spot. Whoever the truck driver was, he scored one for all motorcyclists. Just trying to cheer you all up. Pete '85 V65 Sabre '83 VT750C Shadow '03 ST1300A3 Carl in Bethesda (So, who rode in today :^) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 14:23:39 2003 Subject: Re: new SV650S and purple monster sold Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 13:21:00 -0500 From: To: , Congrats, on the new Scoot Jenn, good choice... 2300 miles in a month.? Not bad, there are some folks I know who call themselves motorcycle riders who are not getting 2300 miles in a year lately. As to the seat shaving, I did it on my Fazer with both a electric knife and sandpaper blocks, makes a huge mess and you will need a HD stapler to get the seat cover back on. I sculpted my seat to be more Corbin like, it felt lumpy by hand but fine when seated. George >>> Jennthebiker@XXXXXX 07/01/03 01:36PM >>> Hi everyone! It's been awhile since I posted --- I've been enjoying my new scoot! About 4.5 weeks ago I purchased a brand new 2002 Suzuki SV650S - I'm considering shaving my new seat to make touching a bit easier. Any recommendations? Some say electric knife others say sand paper? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 14:49:27 2003 Reply-To: wayne@XXXXXX From: "wayne@XXXXXX" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, Jennthebiker@XXXXXX Subject: RE: new SV650S and purple monster sold Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 14:49:18 -0400 I'm having one of the 'Busa guys modify my stock seat for drag racing. Here are some examples of his work - http://users.adelphia.net/~tobinoc/20022.jpg http://users.adelphia.net/~tobinoc/paul2.jpg http://users.adelphia.net/~tobinoc/images/logoseat.jpg http://users.adelphia.net/~tobinoc/images/seathump2.jpg Contact information: Tobin O'Connor 122 South Main Street York New Salem , PA 17371 1-717-792-3708 Tobinoc@XXXXXX Since I'm short (5'9"), the stepped seat will give me something to push against when launching. As you can see from the pics, his work is top notch and looks better than OEM when completed. I'm sure he can modify your stock seat any way you like. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ Original Message: ----------------- From: Jennthebiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 13:36:46 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: new SV650S and purple monster sold I'm considering shaving my new seat to make touching a bit easier. Any recommendations? Some say electric knife others say sand paper? -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 14:52:09 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 13:52:26 -0500 I find it funny that people think they can outrun traffic in the DC Metro area. After you outrun one "gaggle" of traffic you usually end up behind another one. This especailly holds true on the beltway since it's a big circle. Rob On Tue, 1 Jul 2003 12:04:33 -0400, Dave Yates wrote > > >I have read too much of people who justify their 90mph > >sprints as "just trying to stay in front of traffic" when in > >fact, you never really are in front. admit you dont think > >certain rules apply to you (but probably to others) and quit > >wrapping yourself in a conspiracy cloak.... > > [Dave] Statistically, you *are* safer in front of > the 'gaggle' of traffic, than either in it, beside it, or > behind it. Obviously, there is a point at which you exceed > reason to stay in front of the one tailgating you that > _just_has_to_be in front of you, only to park it and drop > back to the speed limit. Or the guy who is simply determined > to "lead the pack" no matter what speed is necessary to do > it. But take away the 'gaggle' of traffic for the sake of > arguments, the assertion that 80mph is reckless behavior is > patently false, or every state and territory in the Union > would have such a law. > -- Rob Sharp CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 15:51:08 2003 From: "Rob Keiser" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: No Bike Content....Tool Chest For Sale Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 15:39:00 -0400 During my last visit to Sears, I upgraded my tool storage chests, so now I'm selling what I used previously. It's two pieces: (you may have to cut/paste the URL's) Top is: Craftsman 4-Drawer Chest, 26 in. Wide $99.96 Sears Item #00965902000 Mfr. Model #65902 http://www.sears.com/sr/product/summary/productsummary.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@0251468548.1057086553@@@@&BV_EngineID=ccikadcijlmmfkgcehgcemgdffmdflk.0&vertical=TOOL&bidsite=&pid=00965902000 Bottom is: Craftsman 3-Drawer Roll-Away, 26-1/2 in. Wide $159.99 Sears Item #00965903000 Mfr. Model #65903 http://www.sears.com/sr/product/summary/productsummary.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@0251468548.1057086553@@@@&BV_EngineID=ccikadcijlmmfkgcehgcemgdffmdflk.0&vertical=TOOL&fromAuto=YES&bidsite=&pid=00965903000 Both are Red w/ Black drawers and are in great shape. To make up for one of the four keys being broken (don't worry, it's not stuck in one of the locks), I'm including the drawer liners. $150 takes them both, and I'll even deliver it (within a reasonable mile limit, that is). Contact me off list if you're interested Thanks. Rob '98 VFR800 _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 17:27:27 2003 Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 17:28:10 -0400 To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" From: Bob Meyer Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" >on 6/30/03 10:45 PM, Bruce Brownlee at brownlee_b@XXXXXX wrote: > > > > > the same applies to the total arrogance of the lane splitting > arguement..... > > but thats a whole nother can of worms. :-) This tells me you really DON'T know what you're talking about. More than one study (beginning with the famous, and well respected, Hurt Report) has concluded that lane splitting is SAFER than staying in between cars. That's because drivers are inherently better at maintaing lane discipline than speed / distance discipline. To use simple language: they're much more likely to run over you from behind than they are to hit you from the side. You apparently choose not to believe this, but that only displays your ignorance, not the truth. Bob Meyer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 17:52:46 2003 Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 17:52:38 -0400 To: dc-cycles From: Aki Damme Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" At 05:28 PM 7/1/2003, you wrote: >>on 6/30/03 10:45 PM, Bruce Brownlee at brownlee_b@XXXXXX >>wrote: >> >> > >> > the same applies to the total arrogance of the lane splitting >> arguement..... >> > but thats a whole nother can of worms. :-) > > >This tells me you really DON'T know what you're talking about. More >than one study (beginning with the famous, and well respected, Hurt >Report) has concluded that lane splitting is SAFER than staying in >between cars. That's because drivers are inherently better at >maintaing lane discipline than speed / distance discipline. To use >simple language: they're much more likely to run over you from >behind than they are to hit you from the side. > >You apparently choose not to believe this, but that only displays >your ignorance, not the truth. > >Bob Meyer as long as the cages aren't moving: http://www.gazette.net/200326/montgomerycty/updates/165498-1.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 18:16:08 2003 Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 15:16:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" To: dc-cycles I would love to see data supporting lane splitting. I don't believe it. And I love to lane split, btw --- Aki Damme wrote: > At 05:28 PM 7/1/2003, you wrote: > > >>on 6/30/03 10:45 PM, Bruce Brownlee at > brownlee_b@XXXXXX > >>wrote: > >> > >> > > >> > the same applies to the total arrogance of the > lane splitting > >> arguement..... > >> > but thats a whole nother can of worms. :-) > > > > > >This tells me you really DON'T know what you're > talking about. More > >than one study (beginning with the famous, and well > respected, Hurt > >Report) has concluded that lane splitting is SAFER > than staying in > >between cars. That's because drivers are > inherently better at > >maintaing lane discipline than speed / distance > discipline. To use > >simple language: they're much more likely to run > over you from > >behind than they are to hit you from the side. > > > >You apparently choose not to believe this, but that > only displays > >your ignorance, not the truth. > > > >Bob Meyer > > as long as the cages aren't moving: > > http://www.gazette.net/200326/montgomerycty/updates/165498-1.html > > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 18:19:42 2003 Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 18:19:32 -0400 To: dc-cycles From: Aki Damme Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" At 06:16 PM 7/1/2003, you wrote: >I would love to see data supporting lane splitting. I >don't believe it. > >And I love to lane split, btw The only reason I wouldn't lane split is because rednecks like to spit chaw and flick their cigs while at stop lights. yeech.. >--- Aki Damme wrote: > > At 05:28 PM 7/1/2003, you wrote: > > > > >>on 6/30/03 10:45 PM, Bruce Brownlee at > > brownlee_b@XXXXXX > > >>wrote: > > >> > > >> > > > >> > the same applies to the total arrogance of the > > lane splitting > > >> arguement..... > > >> > but thats a whole nother can of worms. :-) > > > > > > > > >This tells me you really DON'T know what you're > > talking about. More > > >than one study (beginning with the famous, and well > > respected, Hurt > > >Report) has concluded that lane splitting is SAFER > > than staying in > > >between cars. That's because drivers are > > inherently better at > > >maintaing lane discipline than speed / distance > > discipline. To use > > >simple language: they're much more likely to run > > over you from > > >behind than they are to hit you from the side. > > > > > >You apparently choose not to believe this, but that > > only displays > > >your ignorance, not the truth. > > > > > >Bob Meyer > > > > as long as the cages aren't moving: > > > > >http://www.gazette.net/200326/montgomerycty/updates/165498-1.html > > > > > > >===== > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! >http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 18:24:33 2003 Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 15:24:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" To: Aki Damme , dc-cycles I am not sure if I actually emailed the list with that or not. Reminds me of one time I was riding in Canada. Very tired, had been on a trip for 3 weeks. Saw some guy in a pickup flick a cig out, then had an intense pain going down my arm. IT HURT. Cursed that SOB out. Got to my hotel, took jacket off. Out came a dead bee........ --- Aki Damme wrote: > At 06:16 PM 7/1/2003, you wrote: > >I would love to see data supporting lane splitting. > I > >don't believe it. > > > >And I love to lane split, btw > > > The only reason I wouldn't lane split is because > rednecks like to > spit chaw and flick their cigs while at stop lights. > yeech.. > > > > > > >--- Aki Damme wrote: > > > At 05:28 PM 7/1/2003, you wrote: > > > > > > >>on 6/30/03 10:45 PM, Bruce Brownlee at > > > brownlee_b@XXXXXX > > > >>wrote: > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > the same applies to the total arrogance of > the > > > lane splitting > > > >> arguement..... > > > >> > but thats a whole nother can of worms. :-) > > > > > > > > > > > >This tells me you really DON'T know what you're > > > talking about. More > > > >than one study (beginning with the famous, and > well > > > respected, Hurt > > > >Report) has concluded that lane splitting is > SAFER > > > than staying in > > > >between cars. That's because drivers are > > > inherently better at > > > >maintaing lane discipline than speed / distance > > > discipline. To use > > > >simple language: they're much more likely to > run > > > over you from > > > >behind than they are to hit you from the side. > > > > > > > >You apparently choose not to believe this, but > that > > > only displays > > > >your ignorance, not the truth. > > > > > > > >Bob Meyer > > > > > > as long as the cages aren't moving: > > > > > > > >http://www.gazette.net/200326/montgomerycty/updates/165498-1.html > > > > > > > > > > > >===== > > > > > >__________________________________ > >Do you Yahoo!? > >SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > >http://sbc.yahoo.com > > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 18:31:29 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Mark Kitchell , Aki Damme , dc-cycles Subject: Was: Speed limits and "categorical BS" now bee/wasp related injuries. Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 17:31:52 -0500 I got to one up you on this one Mark. I was driving my friends car one summer afternoon going to the store to pick up some stuff for a BBQ. Window down, swim trunks and t shirt. Wasp hits the driver's rear view mirror tumbles into the car and down my swin trunks. I got stung in the nut sack 3 times (wasp can sting multiple times). You think a bee sting hurts on your arm :) I was walking funny for a couple days after that one. Swelling sucks. Rob On Tue, 1 Jul 2003 15:24:31 -0700 (PDT), Mark Kitchell wrote > I am not sure if I actually emailed the list with that > or not. > > Reminds me of one time I was riding in Canada. Very > tired, had been on a trip for 3 weeks. > > Saw some guy in a pickup flick a cig out, then had an > intense pain going down my arm. IT HURT. Cursed that > SOB out. > > Got to my hotel, took jacket off. Out came a dead > bee........ > > --- Aki Damme wrote: > > At 06:16 PM 7/1/2003, you wrote: > > >I would love to see data supporting lane splitting. > > I > > >don't believe it. > > > > > >And I love to lane split, btw > > > > > > The only reason I wouldn't lane split is because > > rednecks like to > > spit chaw and flick their cigs while at stop lights. > > yeech.. > > > > > > > > > > > > >--- Aki Damme wrote: > > > > At 05:28 PM 7/1/2003, you wrote: > > > > > > > > >>on 6/30/03 10:45 PM, Bruce Brownlee at > > > > brownlee_b@XXXXXX > > > > >>wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > >> > the same applies to the total arrogance of > > the > > > > lane splitting > > > > >> arguement..... > > > > >> > but thats a whole nother can of worms. :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >This tells me you really DON'T know what you're > > > > talking about. More > > > > >than one study (beginning with the famous, and > > well > > > > respected, Hurt > > > > >Report) has concluded that lane splitting is > > SAFER > > > > than staying in > > > > >between cars. That's because drivers are > > > > inherently better at > > > > >maintaing lane discipline than speed / distance > > > > discipline. To use > > > > >simple language: they're much more likely to > > run > > > > over you from > > > > >behind than they are to hit you from the side. > > > > > > > > > >You apparently choose not to believe this, but > > that > > > > only displays > > > > >your ignorance, not the truth. > > > > > > > > > >Bob Meyer > > > > > > > > as long as the cages aren't moving: > > > > > > > > > > > >http://www.gazette.net/200326/montgomerycty/updates/165498-1.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >===== > > > > > > > > >__________________________________ > > >Do you Yahoo!? > > >SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > > >http://sbc.yahoo.com > > > > > > ===== > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > http://sbc.yahoo.com -- Rob Sharp CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 18:37:08 2003 Subject: RE: Speed limits and "categorical BS" Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 18:37:01 -0400 From: "Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services" To: "Aki Damme" , "dc-cycles" Funny that you should mention angry pickup rednecks. On my ride to work today, I was lanesplitting to the front of a traffic light. The light turned green, so I merged into a regular lane. On the next block, I stopped and waited in line of a left turn lane, and it is then that one of the angry pickup rednecks stopped in the lane to the right of me (blocking traffic) and in a pretty pissed off manner told me that "this is why people like you die on these bikes. Next time I won't hesitate to hit you." I guess he was looking for a reply, but I just nodded in acknowledgement... then he took off. -Witold > -----Original Message----- > From: Aki Damme [mailto:adamme1@XXXXXX] > Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 6:20 PM > To: dc-cycles > Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" > The only reason I wouldn't lane split is because rednecks like to > spit chaw and flick their cigs while at stop lights. yeech.. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 19:54:35 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 19:54:28 EDT Subject: Re: new SV650S and purple monster sold To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/1/2003 1:37:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Jennthebiker@XXXXXX writes: > I'm considering shaving my new seat to make touching a bit easier. Good lord I read that wrong the first time...... John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 20:44:20 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: "dc-cycles" Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 20:44:09 -0400 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec799d50ad8c2c20e19800a595da3481a092350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c > Funny that you should mention angry pickup rednecks. [Dave] I just told my wife that she's a red neck for driving my truck. She wants to know if you want to step outside ;-) On my ride to work today, I was lanesplitting to the front of a traffic light. The light turned green, so I merged into a regular lane. On the next block, I stopped and waited in line of a left turn lane, and it is then that one of the angry pickup rednecks stopped in the lane to the right of me (blocking traffic) and in a pretty pissed off manner told me that "this is why people like you die on these bikes. Next time I won't hesitate to hit you." I guess he was looking for a reply, but I just nodded in acknowledgement... then he took off. [Dave] Argument number one against lane splitting as a regular tactic. It's not culturally accepted around here, and never will be. It's like standing in line at the grocery store, with a rolling basket. I come up from behind, weaving in and out of 'basket' traffic and mosey up to the cash register. Why? Because, MY time is more important than yours.... Dave From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 20:45:06 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 20:44:59 EDT Subject: Re:More categorical bullshit (or ice cream headache) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 6/29/2003 9:45:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, brownlee_b@XXXXXX writes: > This is the kind of categorical bullshit I was talking about in my first post. > > There is NO case where faster speeds, ESPECIALLY MUCH higher than > the posted speed limit, are 'safer' for everyone. And that is categorical bullshit. I stated the case clearly, you apparently did not bother to read and consider the post. I was not talking about riding at night, so there was no point in even bringing that up. If riding at night the posted speed limit is usually too _high_ for safe operation and I would recommend ignoring the speed limit in that situation also. I clearly stated in my example that visibility was unlimited and there is no cover for any animal that could knock a bike down. BOREDOM/fatigue is a factor in riding/driving and does kill when the stimulus of riding is so low that the mind wanders. Imagine riding around the beltway with no traffic at all at 25mph. keeping your mind on the road, you could never do it, there is just not enough going on to keep anyones attention. That is _exactly_ the situation in northern Nevada (the location I mentioned) And yes the speed limit was created for a reason. In Nevada and a lot of other states it was forced on them by bureaucrats in the district 2,000mi. away with no clue about driving in the west. In that case it is about power, political power. And lets not forget $$$$$ do not even try to tell me that speed limits are set for safety, most are set for profit. Blindly following "leaders" most of whom are cowering behind us, and in the case of traffic laws, usually unelected bureaucrats with no one to answer too is just idiotic. The phrase usually used to justify low limits is that "Most accidents involve speeding" is a bullshit argument. True most accident involve at least one driver who is exceeding the speed limit, at least half of all drivers are exceeding the speed limit so the odds are that in any accident involving two or more cars/bikes _someone_ will be exceeding the limit. The question is did speeding _cause_ or even contribute to the accident? In the vast majority of the case the answer is categorically _NO._ (CA once did a survey that listed _causes_ of accidents speeding came in something like tenth, TENTH! After things like driving on the wrong side of the road.) Speed limits were placed at the fore of enforcement (with the propaganda about "speed kills") when Vascar and then radar made speeding the easy money maker it remains. Enforced by the fuel crisis of the 70s when suddenly skyrocketing fuel costs forced police departments to stop patrolling, driving around looking for people were driving dangerously or in dangerous vehicles, and instead _park_ on the side of the road using little fuel and taking the easy money. (I was riding then, I remember.) ANYTIME you make a generalization you will be wrong about something, somewhere, Federal speed limits are in effect a generalization about "safe speeds" They are wrong when applied in _some_ areas. If we truly believed that "speed kills" we would have to acknowledge "slower is safer" (it is after all the same statement worded differently) we would all be walking. Do not kid yourself that I am exaggerating. Safetycrats will argue that if 50 is safer then 55 then 40 is safer then 50 and if allowed will enact constantly lower limits until we might as well be walking. It was only the refusal to accept the national 55 limit that finally eliminated that national bullshit. Oh BTW I have something like 3 speeding tickets in nearly half a million miles of riding, at least one of them in a blatant speed trap. My goal is not to see how fast I can go. My goal is to ride _safely_ using my own judgment as to the safest speed to travel at any given time, (usually traffic speed, which is usually "speeding.") using our own judgment is something we are all expected to do in inclement weather, and most are capable of using it in good weather also. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 20:51:53 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 20:51:43 EDT Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/1/2003 8:44:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Dave@XXXXXX writes: > It's like standing in line at the grocery store, with a > rolling basket. I come up from behind, weaving in and out of 'basket' > traffic and mosey up to the cash register. Sorry, not really. It is like weaving in and out of the Basket traffic line to go to a "two item" only register when you are the only one with two items. "filtering" when done correctly not only does not have any effect on other traffic it speeds it up by "compressing" the line of traffic, the motorcycle no longer takes up a space in the line. And because motorcycles pull away quickly more vehicles can make it through any given light. It _helps_ traffic, that is why it is legal and expected in most of the rest of the world. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 21:00:11 2003 Subject: RE: Speed limits and "categorical BS" Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 21:00:01 -0400 From: "Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services" To: "Dave Yates" , "dc-cycles" > [Dave] I just told my wife that she's a red neck for driving my truck. She wants to know if you want to step outside ;-) Trust me Dave, I meant no offense to pickup owners. I'm carless, but a pickup is the only vehicle I'm seriously contemplating "picking up"... hehehe... > [Dave] Argument number one against lane splitting as a regular tactic. It's not culturally accepted around here, and never will be. It's like standing in line at the grocery store, with a rolling basket. I come up from behind, weaving in and out of 'basket' traffic and mosey up to the cash register. Why? Because, MY time is more important than yours.... I agree with you, but I would like to think that this attitude can change. The biggest thing that will contribute to an attitude change is 1) more bikes on the road more often, and 2) more bikes lanesplitting. If those two criteria are sufficiently fulfilled, drivers will get used to lanesplitting, start to accept it, and, eventually, learn to expect it :) ... Or maybe they'll run me over and jail anyone lanesplitting... Could be just wishful thinking on my part. --Witold From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 21:07:08 2003 Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 21:07:40 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: RE: Speed limits and "categorical BS" At 09:00 PM 7/1/2003, Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services wrote: >I agree with you, but I would like to think that this attitude can >change. The biggest thing that will contribute to an attitude change is >1) more bikes on the road more often, and 2) more bikes lanesplitting. If >those two criteria are sufficiently fulfilled, drivers will get used to >lanesplitting, start to accept it, and, eventually, learn to expect it :) > >... Or maybe they'll run me over and jail anyone lanesplitting... Could >be just wishful thinking on my part. I lanesplit in the city all the time. People have gotten used to it with the crazy bike messengers running around. But in the suburbs you get too many people swerving towards you and yelling insults. The last time I split a light in Fairfax was a long line of traffic with impending hail. Cops will pull you over for it in the 'burbs. And in VA you may get a reckless ticket for it - because just about everything gets a reckless ticket in VA. _____________________________________ Mike Troutman mike@XXXXXX http://www.troutman.org/vfr '97 Honda VFR 750 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 21:13:55 2003 Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 18:13:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" To: Dave Yates , dc-cycles If you have a special chip in your wallet that automatically calculates whats in the cart and debits it fron your account, thus taking no more than one second away from those waiting in line who do not have that chip....then your analogy may hold water. > > [Dave] Argument number one against lane splitting > as a regular tactic. > It's not culturally accepted around here, and never > will be. waters again> It's like standing in line at the > grocery store, with a > rolling basket. I come up from behind, weaving in > and out of 'basket' > traffic and mosey up to the cash register. Why? > Because, MY time is more > important than yours.... > > Dave > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 21:23:16 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 21:23:06 -0400 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec792acc5728bd2999b78acaf95e176919d0350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c hmm... wonder when somethings gonna nibble on this bait..... > Sorry, not really. [Dave] No need to apologize for being incorrect, John, it happens to all of us once in a while ;-) > It is like weaving in and out of the Basket traffic line to go to a "two > item" only register when you are the only one with two items. "filtering" when > done correctly not only does not have any effect on other traffic it speeds it up [Dave] You are thinking in a purely linear sense; narrow as they are, bikes still take up ten or so feet in a lane - length of the bike, plus your following distance, plus the minute amount of space left behind you because the passive aggressive bdc behind you is now tailgating you... > by "compressing" the line of traffic, the motorcycle no longer takes up a > space in the line. And because motorcycles pull away quickly more vehicles can > make it through any given light. It _helps_ traffic, that is why it is legal and > expected in most of the rest of the world. [Dave] Traffic instinctively ( as instinctive as possible for learned behavior ) slows down as the following distance decreases. Because you've lane split in front of someone, now, they have to wait for you to take off from the 2 or so lanes once the light turns green. Sure, everyone *could* take off together, but if they did, and one car stalled, there'd be a mondo collision, so most people wait for the vehicle directly in front to get 'under way' before applying the throttle. So you *have* delayed the vehicle you cut in front of, either ever so slighly, or maybe you made them miss the next traffic signal by one cage length... Dave From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 21:26:12 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 21:26:02 -0400 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec7983110a15d55c562c8a096100cd3ada4e350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Troutman asserted: > Cops will pull you over for it in the 'burbs. And in VA you may get a > reckless ticket for it - because just about everything gets a reckless > ticket in VA. [Dave] With ONE critical exception - yakking on the cell while driving. Today, I saw 3 people execute a turn while holding a conversation on a cell 1 was a stick shift ... Smooth Operator??? hello ? Dave From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 21:29:42 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: "dc-cycles" Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 21:29:32 -0400 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79c5869ed18a4164e039aa37ec15a0288c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c > If you have a special chip in your wallet that > automatically calculates whats in the cart and debits > it fron your account, thus taking no more than one > second away from those waiting in line who do not have > that chip....then your analogy may hold water. > [Dave] But there's no "special chip" to make more room for a motorcycle - you have to make it yourself in a pre-existing gap between two other vehicles. Your analogy is more like dumb tag vs. coin tossers at toll booths. I'm asserting that since my basket doesn't take up as much room, nor does it pollute as much as the "Lowes Lumber Hauler", I should be allowed to check out 1st. It's perfectly reasonable and, there's no law against it ! :-) Dave From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 21:35:48 2003 X-Originating-Client: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.5; Windows 98; Win 9x 4.90) From: bmckeithen@XXXXXX To: MGCL@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Dont need no stinking Dragon Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 01:35:46 +0000 I have found nirvana. I rode a road today for 31 kilometers and the bike was never vertical except to transition from right to left. Also from sea level to around 3000 feet in that distance. Check a map of Costa Rica. The road runs from Neily to San Vito. No guard rails and about one and a half lanes wide. Bob From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 22:21:34 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Dave Yates" , "dc-cycles" Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 22:21:36 -0400 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Yates" > On my ride to work today, I was lanesplitting to the front of a traffic > light. The light turned green, so I merged into a regular lane. On the > next block, I stopped and waited in line of a left turn lane, and it is then > that one of the angry pickup rednecks stopped in the lane to the right of me > (blocking traffic) and in a pretty pissed off manner told me that "this is > why people like you die on these bikes. Next time I won't hesitate to hit > you." I guess he was looking for a reply, but I just nodded in > acknowledgement... then he took off. > > [Dave] Argument number one against lane splitting as a regular tactic. > It's not culturally accepted around here, and never will be. waters again> It's like standing in line at the grocery store, with a > rolling basket. I come up from behind, weaving in and out of 'basket' > traffic and mosey up to the cash register. Why? Because, MY time is more > important than yours.... > > Dave Mule muffins. Lane-splitting or filtering does not impede traffic, so your basket analogy is not germane. It's not cutting in line, it's doing something a car can't do,, which is to use the leftover bits of asphalt. I'll call it asphalt recycling. I'm a bit mystified how lane-splitting inconveniences any other motorist or delays anyone for a nanosecond. If they get angry it's out of envy, pure and simple. Light changes and I'm gone. Talk about staying ahead of the pack. It's just envy, 'cuz they have to sit in a clusterf^ck largely of their own making. I was thinking about this during the stop'n'go on the 14th St. Bridge this morning. How much more fluid the traffic would be if even 1 in 10 of the vehicles were a motorcycle. Every car/SUV around me had one occupant. Criminy people, something has to give. There just isn't going to be any new pavement of any significance inside the Beltway, ever. That's simply a fact. OK, maybe, I-66 will be widened if the Arlington NIMBYs can be silenced, but that's it. FWIW, here's my modest proposal for I-66 inside the Beltway. If the Arlingtonians want a two-lane I-66, fine. I-66 will be kept to two lanes, but all exits in Arlington will be closed permanently. That's the price of keeping it two lanes. Paul in DC 95 VFR - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 22:34:14 2003 Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 22:34:06 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Aki Damme Subject: Re:More categorical bullshit (or ice cream headache) At 08:44 PM 7/1/2003, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: >.... My goal is to ride _safely_ using my own judgment as to >the safest speed to travel at any given time, (usually traffic >speed, which is >usually "speeding.") using our own judgment is something we are all >expected >to do in inclement weather, and most are capable of using it in good >weather >also. I agree to a point, however I seriously doubt a judge would agree with your self imposed speed limit. Personally, I don't think that speed in itself kills. However, the mixture of speed and slower, unpredictable vehicles on the same road does. Take for example NASCAR. Everyone is doing 150mph. Everything is fine. Then someone in front is going *just* a hair slower than the car behind them. A slight bump and *boom* big crackup with resulting skidding, flamage and taped replays from every angle. And they are ALL professional, highly skilled drivers on a controlled course with a self imposed speed limit. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 22:35:33 2003 Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 22:35:25 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Aki Damme Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" At 08:51 PM 7/1/2003, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: >In a message dated 7/1/2003 8:44:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >Dave@XXXXXX writes: > > > It's like standing in line at the grocery store, with a > > rolling basket. I come up from behind, weaving in and out of > 'basket' > > traffic and mosey up to the cash register. > >Sorry, not really. >It is like weaving in and out of the Basket traffic line to go to a >"two >item" only register when you are the only one with two items. >"filtering" when >done correctly not only does not have any effect on other traffic it >speeds it up >by "compressing" the line of traffic, the motorcycle no longer takes >up a >space in the line. And because motorcycles pull away quickly more >vehicles can >make it through any given light. It _helps_ traffic, that is why it >is legal and >expected in most of the rest of the world. I don't know about you, but personally I do NOT want to be the first to race across an intersection around here. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 22:41:21 2003 Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 22:54:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Sorry, now the rain is going to start... Got my PC3R and PAIR removal kit tonight, so I finished up my exhaust install. http://www.blueblackbusa.org/exhaust/ I picked up the Yosh full system for only $590 delivered to my door, so I couldn't resist. A little more HP, nicer looks and a lot less weight. The exhaust bolted right up without any issues. The PC3R was really easy to install, 4 plugs and a ground wire. Took all of 2 minutes to upload the map from my laptop. I'm getting my TL1000S footpegs tomorrow (per UPS tracking). They're a little slimmer than the stock 'Busa pegs and will give around 1/4" more legroom. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 23:07:43 2003 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: splitting lanes and this group Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 22:56:34 -0400 Lane split if you want, don't if you don't. If you live in the burbs w/o a job you don't have to worry about it. _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 23:08:05 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re:More categorical bullshit (or ice cream headache) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 22:08:30 -0500 I hate to go into the logic of statistics and data analysis but most of you guys are confusing corelation with cause and effect. Just because high speed in a vehicle is corelated with a number of accidents that does not mean that it is the cause of the accident. And there is way to many varibles in the driving equation for anyone to come up with a concrete cause and effect theory to even try to test and prove correct. While corelation is all we have to go on many times to try to convice people of cause and effect there is also a lot of little varibles in many statistical equation that you can "tweak" to make your corelation a "meaniful finding". Data collection can often be flawed too. As many of you mention a lot of times cops may not alway report to the correct speeds on citations. My college data analysis professor would be very upset at you guys. Regards, Rob On Tue, 1 Jul 2003 20:44:59 EDT, PenguinBiker wrote > In a message dated 6/29/2003 9:45:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > brownlee_b@XXXXXX writes: > > > This is the kind of categorical bullshit I was talking about in my first > post. > > > > There is NO case where faster speeds, ESPECIALLY MUCH higher than > > the posted speed limit, are 'safer' for everyone. > > And that is categorical bullshit. > I stated the case clearly, you apparently did not bother to read and > consider the post. I was not talking about riding at night, so there > was no point in even bringing that up. If riding at night the posted > speed limit is usually too _high_ for safe operation and I would > recommend ignoring the speed limit in that situation also. I clearly > stated in my example that visibility was unlimited and there is no > cover for any animal that could knock a bike down. BOREDOM/fatigue > is a factor in riding/driving and does kill when the stimulus of > riding is so low that the mind wanders. Imagine riding around the > beltway with no traffic at all at 25mph. keeping your mind on the > road, you could never do it, there is just not enough going on to > keep anyones attention. That is _exactly_ the situation in northern > Nevada (the location I mentioned) And yes the speed limit was > created for a reason. In Nevada and a lot of other states it was > forced on them by bureaucrats in the district 2,000mi. away with no > clue about driving in the west. In that case it is about power, > political power. And lets not forget $$$$$ do not even try to tell > me that speed limits are set for safety, most are set for profit. > Blindly following "leaders" most of whom are cowering behind us, and > in the case of traffic laws, usually unelected bureaucrats with no > one to answer too is just idiotic. The phrase usually used to > justify low limits is that "Most accidents involve speeding" is a > bullshit argument. True most accident involve at least one driver > who is exceeding the speed limit, at least half of all drivers are > exceeding the speed limit so the odds are that in any accident > involving two or more cars/bikes _someone_ will be exceeding the > limit. The question is did speeding _cause_ or even contribute to > the accident? In the vast majority of the case the answer is > categorically _NO._ (CA once did a survey that listed _causes_ of > accidents speeding came in something like tenth, TENTH! After things > like driving on the wrong side of the road.) Speed limits were > placed at the fore of enforcement (with the propaganda about "speed > kills") when Vascar and then radar made speeding the easy money > maker it remains. Enforced by the fuel crisis of the 70s when > suddenly skyrocketing fuel costs forced police departments to stop > patrolling, driving around looking for people were driving > dangerously or in dangerous vehicles, and instead _park_ on the side > of the road using little fuel and taking the easy money. (I was > riding then, I remember.) ANYTIME you make a generalization you will > be wrong about something, somewhere, Federal speed limits are in > effect a generalization about "safe speeds" They are wrong when > applied in _some_ areas. If we truly believed that "speed kills" we > would have to acknowledge "slower is safer" (it is after all the > same statement worded differently) we would all be walking. Do not > kid yourself that I am exaggerating. Safetycrats will argue that if > 50 is safer then 55 then 40 is safer then 50 and if allowed will > enact constantly lower limits until we might as well be walking. It > was only the refusal to accept the national 55 limit that finally > eliminated that national bullshit. Oh BTW I have something like 3 > speeding tickets in nearly half a million miles of riding, at least > one of them in a blatant speed trap. My goal is not to see how fast > I can go. My goal is to ride _safely_ using my own judgment as to > the safest speed to travel at any given time, (usually traffic speed, > which is usually "speeding.") using our own judgment is something > we are all expected to do in inclement weather, and most are capable > of using it in good weather also. > > John Walters (Long John) > PenguinBiker@XXXXXX > Up near DC > > Honda ST1100X Pan European > BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles > Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer -- Rob Sharp CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 23:29:10 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: "dc-cycles" Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 23:28:58 -0400 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79f194e35d50f93b7d2fa41003ede08b70350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Finally, some bait takers... > > [Dave] Argument number one against lane splitting as a regular tactic. > > It's not culturally accepted around here, and never will be. > waters again> It's like standing in line at the grocery store, with a > > rolling basket. I come up from behind, weaving in and out of 'basket' > > traffic and mosey up to the cash register. Why? Because, MY time is more > > important than yours.... > > > > Dave > > > Mule muffins. Lane-splitting or filtering does not impede traffic, so your > basket analogy is not germane. [Dave] C'mon Paul, surely, you can do better. Sooner or later, unless you are far more of a traffic scofflaw than I, you must assume a lane position which is not between them, at which point you are in front of somebody, but not totally ahead of everyone as has been previously pointed out. >It's not cutting in line, it's doing > something a car can't do,, which is to use the leftover bits of asphalt. [Dave] Ok, then I'm "linoleum" recycling, by taking my small basket of widgets past all the fat honking 4 roller baskets full of food piloted by Fijian immigrants who don't speak any english and are bound and determined to use either unexchanged Fijian currency, or an out of country check. > I'll call it asphalt recycling. I'm a bit mystified how lane-splitting > inconveniences any other motorist or delays anyone for a nanosecond. [Dave] See above you must at some point enter a lane during the filter process. The person you cut in front of is now behind you. More than likely, that person must accelerate less to accomodate following distance thanks to your (what I refer to as ) "NoVA Lane change" which is stuffing a vehicle into a gap of 1.5 car lengths or less. > If they get angry it's out of envy, pure and simple. Light changes and I'm > gone. Talk about staying ahead of the pack. It's just envy, 'cuz they have > to sit in a clusterf^ck largely of their own making. [Dave] But you are not blameless in the encounter, in fact, you provoked it (withrow? ). Are they justified in performing an impact test on your helmet? No, but the "encounter" wouldn't have happened, but for impatience. But a scant few days ago, some of us were excoriating Witold for "setting a bad example" and the like > I was thinking about > this during the stop'n'go on the 14th St. Bridge this morning. How much > more fluid the traffic would be if even 1 in 10 of the vehicles were a > motorcycle. [Dave] Oh the humanity!? Can you imagine the carnage if we forced BDC's to scooter it to work? ... OTOH... think how much clearer the road would be after the carnage... Maybe you're on to something here, Mr. Wilson... Jeepers. > Every car/SUV around me had one occupant. Criminy people, > something has to give. There just isn't going to be any new pavement of any > significance inside the Beltway, ever. That's simply a fact. OK, maybe, > I-66 will be widened if the Arlington NIMBYs can be silenced, but that's it. > > FWIW, here's my modest proposal for I-66 inside the Beltway. If the > Arlingtonians want a two-lane I-66, fine. I-66 will be kept to two lanes, > but all exits in Arlington will be closed permanently. That's the price of > keeping it two lanes. [Dave] You know what's missing from all these "community forums" where a new transportation project is proposed? Nation of Islam "repeaters". All we need are for Governor Warner to propose the added lanes, followed by a chorus of "Amen, Brother"... :-) They're not going far enough... Make it 12 lanes inside the beltway! Dave From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 23:30:01 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: Re: Re:More categorical bullshit (or ice cream headache) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 23:29:50 -0400 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79afdef7d08b337ea37d91b01c7862f4ae350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c > Personally, I don't think that speed in itself kills. However, the > mixture of speed and > slower, unpredictable vehicles on the same road does. [Dave] Is there an echo in here??? ;-) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 23:31:30 2003 Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 23:31:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Dave Paper To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Sorry, now the rain is going to start... On Tue, 1 Jul 2003, Wayne Edelen wrote: [snip] No less than 30 minutes after you send this, I received this in my mailbox: -- From: 9 Weather <9news@XXXXXX> Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 22:31:47 -0400 Subject: Overnight Forecast 7/1/03 Reply-To: tshutt@XXXXXX Dear Dave, Heavy rain is on the way. The remnants of 'Bill' will spread heavy rain into the Metro Area during the day Wednesday and throughout Wednesday night into early Thursday. One to three inches of rain will be common. -- Wayne, can you take your pipes back off your bike, pretty please? :) -dave '96 Vulcan 1500 -- cerberus@XXXXXX Little bunny Cthulhu hopping through the forest, www.ginch.org picking up fieldmice and ripping out their souls. Your screams, my music. Fight the break of dawn. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 1 23:32:32 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: Re: Re:More categorical bullshit (or ice cream headache) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 23:32:20 -0400 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79bc2630ea098f6396295eeda2cb0907f4350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Rob commented: > My college data analysis professor would be very upset at you guys. > [Dave] Does he/she lane split & speed? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 02:40:40 2003 Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 02:35:10 -0400 From: Carl Parker To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: Was:Speed limits, Now:Bee/Wasp stings? Moto content: I think all speed limits are BS and that we should all blatently disregard them and do everything we can to kill ourselves off because of some strange hate for imposed conventions that I'm going defend myself from by wrapping myself in a "conspiracy cloak". I suggest we do this first by wheelying to work everyday at unsafe speeds - meaning, of course, anything over 80mph - then by painting middle fingers on all our bikes and jackets just to say FU to the stupid cagers which _everyone_ on the list clearly thinks are a bunch of slack jawed troglodytes that can't drive. Lastly we carry around tools to steal speed limit signs and hang them upside down from overpasses so that all will know motorcyclists are a force to be dealt with. Solidarity brother... Oh and BTW, to anyone who's riding a bike other than mine in any manner other than how I ride...you're all morons..yup that's right. Everyone knows my bike is the best and I AM the absolute apex of all human riding skills so everyone else only "thinks" they're riders but in actually they're nothing but a bunch of flimsy whiney little girly wanna-be riders with stupid little flabby engines they're affraid to take past the speed limit. Fookin' outrageous! Gawd damn, ya know after a while... :^P Non moto content : Rob reeled: >I got stung in the nut sack 3 times (wasp can sting multiple times). You think a >bee sting hurts on your arm :) I was walking funny for a couple days after >that one. Swelling sucks. I got stung in the ass by a wasp too when I apparently sat one one in the back seat of my freinds car. 15 minutes into the car ride and I'm like "OWW!!! WTF?!?!?" Move over and I'm sitting on a fookin' wasp. Only minimal swelling but my ass itched like hell...Ya know I can't/don't even want to imagine being stung in the jewels three times. I think Rob takes the cake on this one.... Carlo From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 06:02:15 2003 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 03:01:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Todd Withrow Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > It _helps_ traffic, > that is why it is legal and > expected in most of the rest of the world. > In much of the rest of the world, a motorcycle is not given the right to occupy a whole lane by itself. Therefore, it lane splits out of necessity brought on by the cagers attempting to occupy the space claimed by the "inferior" vehicle. My problem with lane splitting is that many American motorcyclist are unskilled. Unfortunately, were it legal, I would fear the condition of my truck. I have repeatedly seen riders that could not negotiate the 8' wide main travel lane, let alone the 2' gap between cages. And of course once that rider clips my truck with his front brake, thereby sending him hurtling over the bars, we now have an "official" wreck possibly requiring rescue and police intervention. Sorry, but traffic is screwed enough as it is, and my truck is dinged enough as it is. ===== AIM: Inf DS http://www.geocities.com/mtwithrow ----------------------------------------------------------- Used to be that we "worldproofed" our children. Now society wants to childproof the world. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 06:06:27 2003 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 03:06:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Todd Withrow Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" To: Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Dave Yates wrote: > [Dave] Smooth Operator??? hello ? > > Dave > Did they execute the maneuver smoothly? If so, no harm no foul. If not, was the violation so egregious that it warranted intervention? If not, see above "no foul" reference. If so, then do your civic duty can get a warrant. ===== AIM: Inf DS http://www.geocities.com/mtwithrow ----------------------------------------------------------- Used to be that we "worldproofed" our children. Now society wants to childproof the world. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 06:11:35 2003 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 03:11:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Todd Withrow Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" To: Paul Wilson , Dave Yates , dc-cycles --- Paul Wilson wrote: > I'm a bit mystified > how lane-splitting > inconveniences any other motorist or delays anyone > for a nanosecond. One bike does little to slow them, but what about 8 or 9? What happens when the BDCs are halfway down the block and still have bikes between them? > FWIW, here's my modest proposal for I-66 inside the > Beltway. If the > Arlingtonians want a two-lane I-66, fine. I-66 will > be kept to two lanes, > but all exits in Arlington will be closed > permanently. That's the price of > keeping it two lanes. LOL, I actually like that. Write that up and send it in to Dr. Gridlock. See what kind of response you get. ===== AIM: Inf DS http://www.geocities.com/mtwithrow ----------------------------------------------------------- Used to be that we "worldproofed" our children. Now society wants to childproof the world. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 06:18:30 2003 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 03:18:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Todd Withrow Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" To: Dave Yates , dc-cycles --- Dave Yates wrote: >> > [Dave] But you are not blameless in the encounter, > in fact, you provoked it > (withrow? ). Are they justified in performing an > impact test on your > helmet? Hey! How did I get brought up by name into this?!?!?! ===== AIM: Inf DS http://www.geocities.com/mtwithrow ----------------------------------------------------------- Used to be that we "worldproofed" our children. Now society wants to childproof the world. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 07:24:30 2003 Reply-To: "Jon Strang" From: "Jon Strang" To: "dc-cycles" Subject: delete button tip ( was Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS") Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 07:24:27 -0400 In Outlook, you can use and to highlight multiple selections in your inbox, then hit the "X". It deletes them all at once! --jon From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 07:47:47 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 07:47:39 EDT Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/1/2003 9:23:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Dave@XXXXXX writes: > > [Dave] No need to apologize for being incorrect, John, it happens to all of > us once in a while ;-) ME? Apologize? Allow me to point out that I rarely "filter" myself, between riding a big (physical size) bike and just not riding in the district all that much _I_ am not really comfortable with it. _But_I_do_understand_it_, hey I have ridden in CA where it is legal. > [Dave] You are thinking in a purely linear sense; narrow as they are, bikes > still take up ten or > so feet in a lane - length of the bike, plus your following distance, No, not really. The cars in the front of the line have already pulled up as far as they are going to, bikes will pull into the space in front of that (or alongside) taking up _no_ additional space. > left behind you because the passive aggressive bdc behind you is now > tailgating you... Unless I am on a mo-ped I can fix that damn fast. > most people > wait for the vehicle directly in front to get 'under way' before applying > the throttle. So you *have* > delayed the vehicle you cut in front of, either ever so slighly, or maybe If you do "filter" you have the responsibility to use your bikes quickness to get the hell out of the way as quickly as possible, cutting the delay to a fraction of a second. Yes there will still be a delay but less then the delay that would be there anyway if you were in the traffic lane taking up a real car space and unable to accelerate out of the way. Also _multiple_ bikes can fit into that same space instead of each taking up its 10ft or so and with only one delay instead of multiple delays one for each bike. I think we would all agree that motorcycles are a great solution to congestion and parking problems. On that assumption _everything_ should be done that can be done to encourage people who can ride to ride. One of the ways that can be done is to allow us to use our vehicles unique abilities in moving through traffic. As riders we all know that playing stop and go (as I did last night) is a miserable experience, we do not have air conditioning keeping us cool and (most) do not have an entertainment system on our bikes. We just have to sit there straddling a furnace in the hot sun, rain, cold. How many more of us, and others, would ride bikes and thereby help reduce traffic congestion if we could skip the misery of roasting in traffic? John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 07:53:08 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 07:52:56 EDT Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/1/2003 10:42:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dchondarider@XXXXXX writes: > That's the price of > keeping it two lanes. Hell making it 4 lane is EASY! Just a little paint down the center of existing lanes. And making it bikes only.... John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 07:58:57 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 07:58:48 EDT Subject: Re: More categorical bullshit (or ice cream headache) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/1/2003 10:47:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, adamme1@XXXXXX writes: > I agree to a point, however I seriously doubt a judge would agree > with your self > imposed speed limit. I never said that #:-) > I would prefer realistic speed limits to begin with. And drivers with brains. > However, the > mixture of speed and > slower, unpredictable vehicles on the same road does. Absofrikinlootly. But ridiculously low speed limits encourage the speed mix, there is always someone who believes the bullshit, the rest try to be reasonable. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 08:00:11 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 08:00:04 EDT Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/1/2003 10:51:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, adamme1@XXXXXX writes: > I don't know about you, but personally I do NOT want to be the first > to race across > an intersection around here. Did I say to do it without looking? John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 08:08:43 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 08:08:33 EDT Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/2/2003 6:11:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mtwithrow@XXXXXX writes: > What happens when the BDCs are halfway down the > block and still have bikes between them? Teach the riders which controll makes the bike go. (Throttle) John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 10:05:30 2003 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 07:05:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Steve Noe Subject: Not just the red necks (cig butt flipping out window) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Yuppies may not indulge in 'chaw' but the smokers among them seem unaware that their cars have ashtrays. Or turn signals in more than a few cases. Steve '86 SRX600 now road-legal! > -----Original Message----- > From: Aki Damme [mailto:adamme1@XXXXXX] > Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 6:20 PM > To: dc-cycles > Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" > The only reason I wouldn't lane split is because rednecks like to > spit chaw and flick their cigs while at stop lights. yeech.. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 10:19:10 2003 Subject: Re: delete button tip ( was Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS") From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 02 Jul 2003 10:13:09 -0400 Yea? In Ximian Evolution I can set up a filter to move this into a special folder and have them marked as read. It's easy and you don't have to keep highlighting multiple selections and hitting 'X' since this thread doesn't seem to be ending ;-) Evil Overlord Carl On Wed, 2003-07-02 at 07:24, Jon Strang wrote: > In Outlook, you can use and to highlight multiple selections > in your inbox, then hit the "X". It deletes them all at once! > > --jon > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 10:46:15 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Dave Yates" , "dc-cycles" Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 10:49:08 -0400 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Yates" > > Mule muffins. Lane-splitting or filtering does not impede traffic, so > your > > basket analogy is not germane. > > [Dave] C'mon Paul, surely, you can do better. Sooner or later, unless you > are far more of a traffic scofflaw than I, you must assume a lane position > which > is not between them, at which point you are in front of somebody, but not > totally > ahead of everyone as has been previously pointed out. So, I'm impeding someone merely by being in front of them? Never mind that in the time it takes them to bite off another piece of jelly donut, or another Starbucks slurp, and reach of the accelerator pedal, I'm half a block away. Cue Rodney King, can't we all just get along? To me getting angry at a motorcyclist for manuevering in traffic makes as much sense as getting angry at someone in a truck because he's towing a boat. We're just doing what our vehicles do. BTW, the narrowness of my motorbikes and bicycles allow me to shift left at a light (if I'm first in line), allowing cars behind make a right on red. I could just sit there blocking the whole lane and piss everyone off. Hey, no "lane-splitting on me, butthole" like some road nanny drivers have behaved toward me on a both human and gasoline-powered two-wheelers . So to repeat, can't we all just get along, using the characteristics of various vehicles to make the traffic flow better? The "filtering is rude" argument reminds me a little of the joyless Road Puritans and finger-wagging scolds who write into Dr. Gridlock. These people, like those who whine about the "zipper merge," really need to get a life. Paul in DC, who's writing a memoir called, "Confessions of a Motorcycle Filterer." From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 11:01:17 2003 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 11:14:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: dc-cycles Subject: Re: Speed limits and "categorical BS" On Wed, 2 Jul 2003, Paul Wilson wrote: > Cue Rodney King, can't we all just get along? To me getting angry at a > motorcyclist for manuevering in traffic makes as much sense as getting angry > at someone in a truck because he's towing a boat. We're just doing what our > vehicles do. BTW, the narrowness of my motorbikes and bicycles allow me to > shift left at a light (if I'm first in line), allowing cars behind make a > right on red. I could just sit there blocking the whole lane and piss > everyone off. Hey, no "lane-splitting on me, butthole" like some road nanny > drivers have behaved toward me on a both human and gasoline-powered > two-wheelers . So to repeat, can't we all just get along, using the > characteristics of various vehicles to make the traffic flow better? The > "filtering is rude" argument reminds me a little of the joyless Road > Puritans and finger-wagging scolds who write into Dr. Gridlock. These > people, like those who whine about the "zipper merge," really need to get a > life. Preach on, Brother Paul! It's not ever going to happen, though. :-( People are rude and jealous. I see it while driving my cars and my bike. They will cut you off, block your progress and generally drive like assholes if they can get away with it. Cars create anonymity and people enjoy the power they can wield on the highway. It's like the Internet. People sling insults back and forth without thinking about it. 99.999999% of those people wouldn't even look you in the eye if you confronted them in person. I've done it. It's the same thing with autos. I've had people cut me off or nearly kill me and we end up at the same destination (Wally World, gym, grocery store, whatever). When I confront them about their infraction, they run for cover. It's my opinion that a lot of these people are truly miserable and they want to project a little of that unhappiness on the rest of us that are actually enjoying life. :-) -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 15:27:27 2003 Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 15:27:12 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: wayne@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Sorry, now the rain is going to start... I'll bring the rope. Someone pick a tree. We'll string him up by his.......... ;-) Scooter In a message dated 7/1/2003 9:54:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, wayne@XXXXXX writes: > > > Got my PC3R and PAIR removal kit tonight, so I finished up my exhaust > install. > > http://www.blueblackbusa.org/exhaust/ > > I picked up the Yosh full system for only $590 delivered to my door, so I > couldn't resist. A little more HP, nicer looks and a lot less weight. > The exhaust bolted right up without any issues. The PC3R was really easy > to install, 4 plugs and a ground wire. Took all of 2 minutes to upload > the map from my laptop. > > I'm getting my TL1000S footpegs tomorrow (per UPS tracking). They're a > little slimmer than the stock 'Busa pegs and will give > around 1/4" more > legroom. > > -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 16:35:07 2003 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 13:35:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Leon Begeman Subject: Re: Dont need no stinking Dragon To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- bmckeithen@XXXXXX wrote: > I have found nirvana. I rode a road today for 31 > kilometers and the bike was > never vertical except to transition from right to > left. Also from sea level > to around 3000 feet in that distance. Check a map of > Costa Rica. The road > runs from Neily to San Vito. No guard rails and > about one and a half lanes > wide. Perhaps I read something wrong here. Isn't the Dragon a lot closer than either Neily or San Vito? Or is this just an opportunity to get back at the Jordans for their recent trip? Leon. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 17:17:03 2003 Subject: Tire Thread From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 02 Jul 2003 17:12:43 -0400 Ok, I'm ready for a new thread. Since I'm going on a trip next month and since I need new tires (and brakes), I need some advise. My friend here recommends Avon Venoms (well, he said Viper but I can't find anything with that name). Other suggestions are to get a radial but make sure you get the right sized tire. Anyway, any suggestions on tires? I was looking at discountmotorcycletires.com as a place to get cheap tires. Later, Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 17:21:23 2003 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 14:21:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Hugh Caldwell Subject: Re: Dont need no stinking Dragon To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I have no idea. But the Devils Backbone in western Mexico is approx 90miles of non stop twisties and little crosses where people have flown off the side of the mountain. Actually nearly all of Central America is packed with great roads. Hugh --- Leon Begeman wrote: > --- bmckeithen@XXXXXX wrote: > > I have found nirvana. I rode a road today for 31 > > kilometers and the bike was > > never vertical except to transition from right to > > left. Also from sea level > > to around 3000 feet in that distance. Check a map > of > > Costa Rica. The road > > runs from Neily to San Vito. No guard rails and > > about one and a half lanes > > wide. > > Perhaps I read something wrong here. Isn't the > Dragon > a lot closer than either Neily or San Vito? > > Or is this just an opportunity to get back at the > Jordans for their recent trip? > > Leon. > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > http://sbc.yahoo.com > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 19:03:49 2003 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 16:03:41 -0700 (PDT) From: matthew patton Subject: Re: Couple gets 39 million from Outback? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Skip Smith wrote: > the individual should be held responsible for their actions, not the > restraunt, IMO I definately agree. Here in stupid-Chicago-land a bar got it's license yanked (justifiably) after serving the -OH group of chemicals to some high schoolers fresh out of graduation. This came to public attention because said foursome of morons decided to drive around at 100mph and cream their car into a solid object. All died on the scene. Yet, NONE of the news shows properly highlighted that the blame lay squarely with the dumb-asses who were driving at that speed. Instead it was all the bar's fault. Time needs to run that 80's cover of the year again: "nation of cry-babies". Indeed. ===== * Love, not time, heals all wounds. * No one is perfect until you fall in love with them. And then when they aren't perfect anymore, love makes them perfect again. * Everyone wants to live on top of the mountain, but all the happiness and growth occurs while you're climbing it * You can not forgive unless you first love. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 19:48:00 2003 From: "Michael Jordan" To: Subject: Re: Dont need no stinking Dragon Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 19:47:50 -0400 > > I have found nirvana. I rode a road today for 31 > > kilometers and the bike was > > never vertical except to transition from right to > > left. > Perhaps I read something wrong here. Isn't the Dragon > a lot closer than either Neily or San Vito? > Or is this just an opportunity to get back at the > Jordans for their recent trip? 3,800 km over two weeks - mostly on the sides of the tires... ;-) Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 19:48:52 2003 Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 19:47:57 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: Tire Thread At 05:12 PM 7/2/2003, Carl Schelin wrote: >Other suggestions are to get a radial but make sure you get the right >sized tire. > >Anyway, any suggestions on tires? I was looking at >discountmotorcycletires.com as a place to get cheap tires. I have stuck with Dunlops and been very happy. I hated the original D205s, then loved the D207s and new D205s which have been replaced by the D220. Good mileage and excellent stick for S/T. _____________________________________ Mike Troutman mike@XXXXXX http://www.troutman.org/vfr '97 Honda VFR 750 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 20:02:42 2003 Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 20:03:08 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Bruce Brownlee Subject: Re: lane splitting I'm glad you all took my bait. It served well at confirming what I was trying to point out. We do what we do out of arrogance, and justify it as 'helping others'. I do not fault someone as much if they can just admit that fact. Lane filtering does not help the flow of traffic and speeding is not safer. But it sure helps US get where we want to go faster. Screw the rest of em, they shoulda bought bikes. And if one of em gets pissed off at me and retaliates, well, I will certainly be in the right! Come on guys, just admit it and it will all be over. Pushing everyone back 7 feet (when you stop at the next light) doesnt solve a thing. The people who were behind you are still behind you (in the same spot) and the ones who werent, well, they can just live with it and race me to the next stoplight. who cares if I have to block the sidewalk. I GOT PLACES TO GO!!! There are places where faster speeds are allowed and there are places where filtering is allowed (or expected). Theres also places where after a leisurely 3 day trial you are executed for speaking out against your leaders (or using derogatory descriptions for same). However you feel about any of that, we dont have either here. Everyone keeps proving my point by trying to pull out one experience or another, or some 'study' backing up their wishes. The libertarian movement would be taken so much more seriously if they just admitted they arent for 'no laws' (I KNOW thats not their platform) but were just for 'let me speed/smoke dope/have a hooker/whatever cuz i'm not hurting anyone'... When it all comes down to it, its just self-centered arrogance.... Not that theres anything wrong with that. Everyone has looked over at the mommyvan hauling one brat to school while talking on the cell phone and thought "you know, they make school buses." Or maybe that Sr Citizen couple headed south with the 32' trailer and thought "Why do you have to do that during rush hour?" Or the soccermom in the land-yacht that "uses more gas leaving the driveway than I do all day" When it comes down to it, because they pay taxes too, they have just as much right to be at the front of the line (in the right lane!) as anyone else, no matter what they drive.... Except for truckers... I hate them... No matter how much they pay in taxes... Make em drive from 11pm to 5am.... No, wait. Then we cant go 100mph on the interstates in the middle of the night.... Aww hell, I dont care. As long as I get where I'm going with minimal inconvenience. And if you dont like my free flow exhaust, get over it... I'm just expressing myself. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 20:52:27 2003 Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 20:46:59 -0400 From: Carl Parker To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: Delete buttons and Splitters -Bloody Splitters!!!- This is some of the funniest shiznizzle I've read in a long time. Talk about whiffing pitches...we rock... - Delete buttons- Not to put too fine a point on things: Jon sed: >In Outlook, you can use and to highlight multiple selections > in your inbox, then hit the "X". It deletes them all at once! > See now Jon this is part of the problem. While you had good intentions of teaching people how to delete threads you gave them poorly worded directions. Kinda like how all the people on this thread you can no longer stand would all proabably agree once they realized that everyone is basically saying "you gotta ride your own ride and it's your ass not mine so to each his own." It's kinda like you ever try to put those desks or TV consoles together but the dude writting the directions is a tard so you end up glueing your ass to the side panel? Point is it's miscommunication...or comunication breakdown...it's always the same...I'm having a nervous brakedown...drive me insaaaaanneee... So clarity and consideration is key.... Not that it matters, but it should have gone like this if you really wanted to be informative.... ;) "In Outlook, or any other selection screen for that matter, you can hold down the button and select individual adjacent or non-adjacent items to make a group. If you hold down the button while selecting you will select all items within' your specified range but not individually. Once your group has been selected then hit the key and you won't have to hurt your brains trying to keep up with a seemingly eternal thread." Carlo" Just because it's not quiet doesn't mean it's noise" Parker From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 20:58:25 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 20:58:14 EDT Subject: Re: Delete buttons and Splitters To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/2/2003 8:52:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, carl@XXXXXX writes: > I'm having a nervous brakedown...drive me > insaaaaanneee... Front or rear? #:-) > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 2 20:58:39 2003 Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 20:53:19 -0400 From: Carl Parker To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" , pawilson@XXXXXX Subject: Motorcycle courtesy... Excellent question because it's impossible to answer. Yeah...unanswerable questions...I sure do like those. IMHO good post BTW. Ciao for now, Carlo ------------- PW sed: >Cue Rodney King, can't we all just get along? To me getting angry at a motorcyclist for manuevering in traffic makes as much sense as getting angry at someone in a truck because he's towing a boat. We're just doing what our vehicles do. BTW, the narrowness of my motorbikes and bicycles allow me to shift left at a light (if I'm first in line), allowing cars behind make a right on red. I could just sit there blocking the whole lane and piss everyone off. Hey, no "lane-splitting on me, butthole" like some road nanny drivers have behaved toward me on a both human and gasoline-powered two-wheelers . So to repeat, can't we all just get along, using the characteristics of various vehicles to make the traffic flow better? The "filtering is rude" argument reminds me a little of the joyless Road Puritans and finger-wagging scolds who write into Dr. Gridlock. These people, like those who whine about the "zipper merge," really need to get a life. Paul in DC, who's writing a memoir called, "Confessions of a Motorcycle Filterer." From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 3 07:50:46 2003 Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 07:47:35 -0400 From: "Steven C. Di Pietro" To: DCCycles Subject: 4th. of July Helmet Protest Ride. Md. DC. Va. X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at pop016.verizon.net from [141.157.123.23] at Thu, 3 Jul 2003 06:50:34 -0500 Hi All, Me, I always ride with a helmet and always will, even if the laws change. But, I've ridden in protests like this one with A.B.A.T.E., and worn my helmet, in support of those who would like to see the law changed. If you've got the time................. Steven C. Di Pietro Interim National Director The Suzuki Owners Club -USA 16 W. Jeffrey Street Baltimore Md. 21225-1713 http://www.soc-usa.org 1996 Suzuki Katana 600 2001 Suzuki Marauder 800 NOTICE: 4th OF JULY HELMET PROTEST RIDE. Our 3rd annual ride. We will meet at the Hooters Restaurant in Rockville at 2:00pm and go for a ride in and around Montgomery County with or without your HELMET, your choice. One thing different this year, is we are going to ride by Senator Frosh's house in Bethesda. He in the one person who prevented us from having a choice whether we wear a helmet or not as adults. He keeped the bill from being voted on in his committee by keeping it his desk and not allowing the Senators on his committee vote on it, because he knew we had the votes to get it out of his committee and to get it out of the Senate. He disrespected us and the Senators who sponsored the bill and the Senators on his committee, bet he know what is best for us! I know a lot of people go to the races in Frederick because of tradition, but this should be the year to start another tradition until the adult helmet law is repealed. We will end up going back to Hooters, regrouping and then going down to watch the DC fire works from the George Washington Parkway in VA. Hope to see all some time soon. David J. Sherman ABATE of Maryland, Inc. Montgomery County Chapter Director From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 3 08:22:45 2003 Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 05:22:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: 4th. of July Helmet Protest Ride. Md. DC. Va. To: DCCycles Why would anyone want to ride without a helmet? --- "Steven C. Di Pietro" wrote: > Hi All, > > Me, I always ride with a helmet and always will, > even if the laws > change. But, I've ridden in protests like this one > with A.B.A.T.E., and > worn my helmet, in support of those who would like > to see the law > changed. If you've got the time................. > > > Steven C. Di Pietro > Interim National Director > The Suzuki Owners Club -USA > 16 W. Jeffrey Street > Baltimore Md. 21225-1713 > http://www.soc-usa.org > 1996 Suzuki Katana 600 > 2001 Suzuki Marauder 800 > > > NOTICE: > > 4th OF JULY HELMET PROTEST RIDE. > Our 3rd annual ride. We will meet at the Hooters > Restaurant in > Rockville at 2:00pm and go for a ride in and around > Montgomery County > with or without your HELMET, your choice. One thing > different this > year, is we are going to ride by Senator Frosh's > house in Bethesda. He > in the one person who prevented us from having a > choice whether we wear > a helmet or not as adults. He keeped the bill from > being voted on in > his committee by keeping it his desk and not > allowing the Senators on > his committee vote on it, because he knew we had the > votes to get it out > of his committee and to get it out of the Senate. He > disrespected us and > the Senators who sponsored the bill and the Senators > on his committee, > bet he know what is best for us! > > I know a lot of people go to the races in Frederick > because of > tradition, but this should be the year to start > another tradition until > the adult helmet law is repealed. > > We will end up going back to Hooters, regrouping and > then going down to > watch the DC fire works from the George Washington > Parkway in VA. > > Hope to see all some time soon. > > David J. Sherman > ABATE of Maryland, Inc. > Montgomery County Chapter Director > > > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 3 08:36:12 2003 Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 08:34:58 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Mark Kitchell CC: DCCycles Subject: Re: 4th. of July Helmet Protest Ride. Md. DC. Va. Mark Kitchell wrote: > Why would anyone want to ride without a helmet? Now, Mark, you know the answer to that. A helmet is designed to protect your brain from injury if you fall offa the bike. No brain, no helmet needed. Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 3 10:30:57 2003 Subject: Re: 4th. of July Helmet Protest Ride. Md. DC. Va. From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 03 Jul 2003 10:26:38 -0400 On Thu, 2003-07-03 at 08:34, William J. Huson wrote: > Mark Kitchell wrote: > > > Why would anyone want to ride without a helmet? > > Now, Mark, you know the answer to that. A helmet is designed to protect > your brain from injury if you fall offa the bike. No brain, no helmet > needed. > So if you have a 3/4 helmet you only have 3/4 of a brain? And if you have a half-helmet (or beanie), you only have half a brain? What about the statements that you only use 10% of your brain power anyway? Does that mean we could use a yarmulka helmet? Just enough to cover the bald spot? Man, that explains a lot. > Bill > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 3 11:17:13 2003 From: "Perry Coleman" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: 4th. of July Helmet Protest Ride. Md. DC. Va. Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 11:01:11 -0400 I'm not sure, but judging from David's writing, he appears to already have sufficient brain-damage. Wearing a helmet, or not, probably won't make much difference... Perry >From: "Steven C. Di Pietro" >To: DCCycles >Subject: 4th. of July Helmet Protest Ride. Md. DC. Va. >Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 07:47:35 -0400 > >Hi All, > > Me, I always ride with a helmet and always will, even if the laws >change. But, I've ridden in protests like this one with A.B.A.T.E., and >worn my helmet, in support of those who would like to see the law changed. >If you've got the time................. > > >Steven C. Di Pietro >Interim National Director >The Suzuki Owners Club -USA >16 W. Jeffrey Street >Baltimore Md. 21225-1713 >http://www.soc-usa.org >1996 Suzuki Katana 600 >2001 Suzuki Marauder 800 > > >NOTICE: > >4th OF JULY HELMET PROTEST RIDE. >Our 3rd annual ride. We will meet at the Hooters Restaurant in Rockville >at 2:00pm and go for a ride in and around Montgomery County with or without >your HELMET, your choice. One thing different this year, is we are going >to ride by Senator Frosh's house in Bethesda. He in the one person who >prevented us from having a choice whether we wear a helmet or not as >adults. He keeped the bill from being voted on in his committee by keeping >it his desk and not allowing the Senators on his committee vote on it, >because he knew we had the votes to get it out of his committee and to get >it out of the Senate. He disrespected us and the Senators who sponsored the >bill and the Senators on his committee, bet he know what is best for us! > >I know a lot of people go to the races in Frederick because of tradition, >but this should be the year to start another tradition until the adult >helmet law is repealed. > >We will end up going back to Hooters, regrouping and then going down to >watch the DC fire works from the George Washington Parkway in VA. > >Hope to see all some time soon. > >David J. Sherman >ABATE of Maryland, Inc. >Montgomery County Chapter Director > > > _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 3 11:22:05 2003 Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 08:21:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: 4th. of July Helmet Protest Ride. Md. DC. Va. To: Perry Coleman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Oh man, I never read the entire thing. LOL Lets keeped it real man! Don't disrespect me! --- Perry Coleman wrote: > I'm not sure, but judging from David's writing, he > appears to already have > sufficient brain-damage. Wearing a helmet, or not, > probably won't make much > difference... > > Perry > > >From: "Steven C. Di Pietro" > > >To: DCCycles > >Subject: 4th. of July Helmet Protest Ride. Md. DC. > Va. > >Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 07:47:35 -0400 > > > >Hi All, > > > > Me, I always ride with a helmet and always > will, even if the laws > >change. But, I've ridden in protests like this one > with A.B.A.T.E., and > >worn my helmet, in support of those who would like > to see the law changed. > >If you've got the time................. > > > > > >Steven C. Di Pietro > >Interim National Director > >The Suzuki Owners Club -USA > >16 W. Jeffrey Street > >Baltimore Md. 21225-1713 > >http://www.soc-usa.org > >1996 Suzuki Katana 600 > >2001 Suzuki Marauder 800 > > > > > >NOTICE: > > > >4th OF JULY HELMET PROTEST RIDE. > >Our 3rd annual ride. We will meet at the Hooters > Restaurant in Rockville > >at 2:00pm and go for a ride in and around > Montgomery County with or without > >your HELMET, your choice. One thing different this > year, is we are going > >to ride by Senator Frosh's house in Bethesda. He > in the one person who > >prevented us from having a choice whether we wear a > helmet or not as > >adults. He keeped the bill from being voted on in > his committee by keeping > >it his desk and not allowing the Senators on his > committee vote on it, > >because he knew we had the votes to get it out of > his committee and to get > >it out of the Senate. He disrespected us and the > Senators who sponsored the > >bill and the Senators on his committee, bet he know > what is best for us! > > > >I know a lot of people go to the races in Frederick > because of tradition, > >but this should be the year to start another > tradition until the adult > >helmet law is repealed. > > > >We will end up going back to Hooters, regrouping > and then going down to > >watch the DC fire works from the George Washington > Parkway in VA. > > > >Hope to see all some time soon. > > > >David J. Sherman > >ABATE of Maryland, Inc. > >Montgomery County Chapter Director > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months > FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 3 12:06:37 2003 Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 12:06:00 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: perrycoleman@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: 4th. of July Helmet Protest Ride. Md. DC. Va. I was gonna comment on that but, it's not nice to pick on those with a disability. ;-) Scooter In a message dated 7/3/2003 10:01:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, perrycoleman@XXXXXX writes: > > > I'm not sure, but judging from David's writing, he appears to already have > sufficient brain-damage. Wearing a helmet, or not, probably won't make much > difference... > > Perry > > >From: "Steven C. Di Pietro" > >To: DCCycles > >Subject: 4th. of July Helmet Protest Ride. Md. DC. Va. > >Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 07:47:35 -0400 > > > >Hi All, > > > > Me, I always ride with a helmet and always will, even if the laws > >change. But, I've ridden in protests like this one with A.B.A.T.E., and > >worn my helmet, in support of those who would like to see the law changed. > >If you've got the time................. > > > > > >Steven C. Di Pietro > >Interim National Director > >The Suzuki Owners Club -USA > >16 W. Jeffrey Street > >Baltimore Md. 21225-1713 > >http://www.soc-usa.org > >1996 Suzuki Katana 600 > >2001 Suzuki Marauder 800 > > > > > >NOTICE: > > > >4th OF JULY HELMET PROTEST RIDE. > >Our 3rd annual ride. We will meet at the Hooters Restaurant in Rockville > >at 2:00pm and go for a ride in and around Montgomery County with or without > >your HELMET, your choice. One thing different this year, is we are going > >to ride by Senator Frosh's house in Bethesda. He in the one person who > >prevented us from having a choice whether we wear a helmet or not as > >adults. He keeped the bill from being voted on in his committee by keeping > >it his desk and not allowing the Senators on his committee vote on it, > >because he knew we had the votes to get it out of his committee and to get > >it out of the Senate. He disrespected us and the Senators who sponsored the > >bill and the Senators on his committee, bet he know what is best for us! > > > >I know a lot of people go to the races in Frederick because of tradition, > >but this should be the year to start another tradition until the adult > >helmet law is repealed. > > > >We will end up going back to Hooters, regrouping and then going down to > >watch the DC fire works from the George Washington Parkway in VA. > > > >Hope to see all some time soon. > > > >David J. Sherman > >ABATE of Maryland, Inc. > >Montgomery County Chapter Director > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > _____ > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 3 13:35:08 2003 Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:34:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Leon Begeman Subject: Re: 4th. of July Helmet Protest Ride. Md. DC. Va. To: DCCycles --- Mark Kitchell wrote: > Why would anyone want to ride without a helmet? 1) When in the infield at Summit Point, it's a lot easier to get from one part of the track to another by leaving all the gear in a pile at the pits. 2) When moving the bike from my garage to my son's garage (150' up the street) not wearing a helmet means I don't have to carry it back with me when I walk home. 3) After tuning the carb, it seems silly to put a helmet on to ride around the block and see if the motor runs well enough to go any distance. 4) When riding the dirt bike to go get the cows, the dirt bike can stand a lot more weather and dirt than the helmet, therefore it would take significant extra effort to keep the helmet clean enough to wear. I admit that I haven't had this problem since Dad quit farming. 5) When riding on open range roads in western SD, you've got to ride slow enough to avoid the cows in the road anyway, when putting along at 15 mph on a summer day on a gravel road, the lack of a helmet doesn't significantly increase one's risk of injury. 6) It's all of a piece with Bruce Brownlee's comment about libertarians, I don't want to wear a helmet primarily because someone tells me I have to. It's none of your damned business. And if you're going to use insurance as a reason, then get yours from Geico. Leon. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 3 14:30:39 2003 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'DCCycles'" Subject: Tire Thread & Ice Cream Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 14:33:35 -0400 Evil Carl eagerly contributed: . . . need new tires (and brakes), I need some advise. My friend here recommends Avon Venoms (well, he said Viper but I can't find anything with that name). Other suggestions are to get a radial but make sure you get the right sized tire. Anyway, any suggestions on tires? I was looking at discountmotorcycletires.com as a place to get cheap tires. Depends on which tires. Shop around: Here's my "cheap tire sources" updated this spring from several sources: X just received a new D205 rear for my VFR from http://www.tireexpress.com. Ordered a 170/60zr17 at 3:00 PM on Tuesday. It arrived today. Total price $110.95 ($101.95 plus $9.00 shipping/handling). This is a pretty good price, better than all 4 of these places Jack Hunt posted: http://www.discountmotorcycletire.com $109 plus $14 shipping http://www.chaparral_racing.com $133.99 plus shipping ??? (Their magazine prices are way cheaper than the catalog or web prices) http://www.cycledepot.net $106.74 plus actual shipping ??? http://www.parts411.com $128.38 plus actual shipping ??? And everybody's favorite (not) MAW (Motorcycle Accessory Whorehouse) http://www.accwhse.com $106.95 plus shipping (and they won't have it in stock, but tell you it is. Expect 3 days to 3 weeks for delivery. And from tire express's sister company http://www.compacc.com $107.05 plus shipping. Y sed: Just go to www.swmototires.com I have had nothing but good deals, service, and fast shipping from them. I ordered more than a dozen tires last season alone from them. Another good place is Kim Leong at www.Casporttouring.com. Not much of a web page but if you call him, his prices are a couple bucks cheaper than SW and he carries disco's on stuff like Givi. Z offered: Ron Ayers is killing them on price, in fact he's the best I've found. AA echoed: Just to chime in here....the $8.00 shipping per tire still doesn't overwhelm the large difference in price...with the shipping Ron Ayers is still almost $23 cheaper for a set of tires. I don't know about other people but $23 is significant enough to make me choose Ron Ayers. YMMV http://www.ronayers.com/tires/tires.cfm?man=mez More categorical bullshit (or ice cream headache) Penguin Biker boldly proposed: "I would prefer realistic speed limits to begin with. And drivers with brains." CC: Yeah, in our dreams. "> However, the mixture of speed and slower, unpredictable vehicles on the same road does. Absofrikinlootly. But ridiculously low speed limits encourage the speed mix, there is always someone who believes the bullshit, the rest try to be reasonable." CC: In a rare event, one Sunday the 270 left lane was clear of LL Hogs. I was following a cage doing 80-85 (GPS & Sigma 800 speed) on 270 in the clear left lane through Gaithersburg. Spotting one of MD's finest olive drabs coming up, I pulled to the next lane, let him pass and slowed to the prevailing traffic. The speed indicators showed I had slowed to 70. (Yes, the cage driver not checking his six, was receiving a performance award a bit down the road. Another green hood was soon sniffing my rear, but I had slowed to 55 prepping for Democracy.) _ _ _ _ Aki Alleged > I don't know about you, but personally I do NOT want to be the first to race across an intersection around here. PB/LJ quipped: "Did I say to do it without looking?" CC: Two snaps and a triple "Yeah, don't be a dumbass" 8^P Lane splitting or not, a right-left check should be a habit in this area. (funny thing. In Santo Domingo, cars on through streets beep when approaching a side street with a stop sign. It's to notify anyone to not run the stop sign -- which is the S.O.P.) _ _ _ _ Wihrow wrote: "What happens when the BDCs are halfway down the block and still have bikes between them?" CC: It ain't a problem in Spain or the Dominican Republic. Maybe they're more civilized -- or -- they've killed off the traffic idiots. _ _ _ _ Steve Noe noted, . . .smokers among them seem unaware that their cars have ashtrays. > -----Original Message----- Aki, The only reason I wouldn't lane split is because rednecks like to spit chaw and flick their cigs while at stop lights." CC: Once upon a time a guy in a convertible flipped a butt that landed on my Suzuki (RIP). The butt ended up in his back seat. ("When opportunity falls in your lap . . ." :^ ) Jon Strang suggested, "In Outlook, you can use and to highlight multiple selections in your inbox, then hit the "X". It deletes them all at once!" CC: First click on Subject in the header and it'll line 'em all up for your deleting pleasure. Paul Wilson wisely proposed, "Cue Rodney King, can't we all just get along? To me getting angry at a motorcyclist for manuevering in traffic makes as much sense as getting angry at someone in a truck because he's towing a boat. Wayne Essayed, "Preach on, Brother Paul! It's not ever going to happen, though. :-(" CC: Aye not in MD. The MD Assembly & MVA is so screwed up with regard to road wisdom. It'll take decades to clear the ignorance. WE: "Cars create anonymity and people enjoy the power they can wield on the highway." CC: A car pool companion once observed, "If people had their name and phone number on their cars, the wouldn't try that stupid shit." So, naturally in MD, even with a license number you can't get their name and number nor get MD to act (If an officer didn't see it . . .) Oh, IIRC, in the early 50's Disney did a cartoon where Goofy after entering his car, became an arrogant monster. Not much has changed. Carl in Bethesda From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 3 15:21:14 2003 From: Daniel To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: question again regarding insurance (statefarm jerk) Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 15:21:01 -0400 Alright I checked my policy and it doesn't state what they'd pay out, or how they would calculate their values. The adjuster is saying because it's a theft they only pay me what they believe a bike would sell for at a dealership, and my upgrades (with reciepts) aren't paid for. He said if it had been a wreck, they would pay for that stuff. Does that sound right? If I went to court, would a judge give me a verdict based on a standard value + reciepts of the upgrades or would he just say the upgrades are irrellevant and give me a book value? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 3 15:25:19 2003 From: bernescut@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: question again regarding insurance (statefarm jerk) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 15:24:59 -0400 My experience with State Farm is that they paid for my centerstand (not stock) and exhaust (not stock) for which I had receipts, but the several hundred dollars in brand new tires, chain and sprockets were not reimbursed because they were considered routine maintenance. Cedric Bernescut 2000 CBR600F4 Annandale, VA -----Original Message----- From: Daniel [mailto:motorcycle@XXXXXX] Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 2:21 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: question again regarding insurance (statefarm jerk) Alright I checked my policy and it doesn't state what they'd pay out, or how they would calculate their values. The adjuster is saying because it's a theft they only pay me what they believe a bike would sell for at a dealership, and my upgrades (with reciepts) aren't paid for. He said if it had been a wreck, they would pay for that stuff. Does that sound right? If I went to court, would a judge give me a verdict based on a standard value + reciepts of the upgrades or would he just say the upgrades are irrellevant and give me a book value? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 3 21:47:10 2003 From: "Mobacc" To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: 4th OF JULY HELMET PROTEST RIDE. Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 21:45:27 -0400 >From the peanut gallery only because it's an instant issue -- Motorcycle Times arriving today reported that twist of the wrist neighbor Pennsylvania is a legislative gimme away from helmetless operation (some qualifying factors -- 21+, MSF, 2yrsM'ed) . A.B.A.T.E. is credited. Details for riding there on a non-PA license weren't mentioned. Bill S. / DC '99 VN750 > Hmmm. Change abrewing in the colonies. Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From: "Steven C. Di Pietro" ...snip NOTICE: 4th OF JULY HELMET PROTEST RIDE. Our 3rd annual ride. We will meet at the Hooters Restaurant in Rockville at 2:00pm and go for a ride in and around Montgomery County with or without your HELMET, your choice. ...snip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 3 22:10:26 2003 Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 22:09:22 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Mobacc CC: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: 4th OF JULY HELMET PROTEST RIDE. Mobacc wrote: > >From the peanut gallery only because it's an instant issue -- Motorcycle > Times arriving today reported that twist of the wrist neighbor Pennsylvania > is a legislative gimme away from helmetless operation (some qualifying > factors -- 21+, MSF, 2yrsM'ed) . A.B.A.T.E. is credited. Hmm... Do tell, what is "2yrsM'ed"? If that means married for two years, that piece of legislation won't last five seconds under a court challange. Insurance compays use personal profiles to determine rates, but I seriously doubt a law containing such blatant discrimination will hold up. Bill > > > Details for riding there on a non-PA license weren't mentioned. > > Bill S. / DC > '99 VN750 > Hmmm. Change abrewing in the colonies. > Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 4 00:14:42 2003 Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 00:14:08 -0400 To: "William J. Huson" , Mobacc From: Bob Meyer Subject: Re: 4th OF JULY HELMET PROTEST RIDE. Cc: DC-Cycles At 10:09 PM 7/3/03 -0400, William J. Huson wrote: >Mobacc wrote: > > > >From the peanut gallery only because it's an instant issue -- Motorcycle > > Times arriving today reported that twist of the wrist neighbor Pennsylvania > > is a legislative gimme away from helmetless operation (some qualifying > > factors -- 21+, MSF, 2yrsM'ed) . A.B.A.T.E. is credited. > >Hmm... Do tell, what is "2yrsM'ed"? If that means married for two years, that >piece of legislation won't last five seconds under a court challange. >Insurance compays use personal profiles to determine rates, but I seriously >doubt a law containing such blatant discrimination will hold up. I think that means two years with an "M"otorcycle endorsement on your license. Bob Meyer '92 Candy Glory Red ST1100, STOC # 1157 "If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning. " From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 4 09:30:16 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Custer, Carl" , "'DCCycles'" Subject: Re: Tire Thread & Ice Cream Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 09:33:16 -0400 www.discountmotorcycletire.com did pretty well by me. I needed tahrs (tires) shipped to my friend's house in Missouri, so I could change them mid-trip. Anyhow, Chaparral absolutely refused to ship to another address on a credit card order. So, I gave DMT a try. Very impressed, as they dropped shipped the tires direct from their distributor. The tires arrived three biz days after I placed the order, and for $4 less than Chaparral. DMT charges for shipping by distance, so the cost may be higher to the East Coast. DMT is located in Arvada, Colo. For ice cream headaches, don't eat it so fast. :) Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'DCCycles'" Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 2:33 PM Subject: Tire Thread & Ice Cream > Evil Carl eagerly contributed: > . . . need new tires (and brakes), I need some advise. > My friend here recommends Avon Venoms (well, he said Viper but I can't find > anything with that name). > Other suggestions are to get a radial but make sure you get the right sized > tire. > Anyway, any suggestions on tires? I was looking at > discountmotorcycletires.com as a place to get cheap tires. > > Depends on which tires. Shop around: > Here's my "cheap tire sources" updated this spring from several sources: > X just received a new D205 rear for my VFR from http://www.tireexpress.com. > Ordered a 170/60zr17 at 3:00 PM on Tuesday. It arrived today. Total price > $110.95 ($101.95 plus $9.00 shipping/handling). This is a pretty good > price, better than all 4 of these places Jack Hunt posted: > http://www.discountmotorcycletire.com $109 plus $14 shipping ... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 4 22:01:33 2003 Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 22:02:25 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Happy 4th Hope everyone had a safe and explosive fourth. Mine was great. A little hot, but great. _____________________________________ Mike Troutman mike@XXXXXX http://www.troutman.org/vfr '97 Honda VFR 750 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 4 22:45:21 2003 Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 19:45:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Larry Larson Subject: Re: Happy 4th To: Troutman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Troutman wrote: > Hope everyone had a safe and explosive fourth. Mine was > great. A little hot, but great. Me too. I'm up in Sarnia, Ontario, just northeast of Detroit on Lake Huron. We had fireworks on the Saint Clair River between the US and Canada for Canada Day on July 1, and fireworks for the Fourth of July in the very same spot tonight. One strange deja vu... 8;) --Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jul 5 09:12:09 2003 From: "Anita Lauro" To: Subject: Trip Report - Nova Scotia/Newfoundland Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 09:12:00 -0400 I got back a few days ago from my 2 week tour of Nova Scotia and Newfoundland with the AMA. Overall I had a really great time, and put ~2900 miles on my bike. Here's a link to a long-ish trip report if anyone is interested: http://pub115.ezboard.com/fbmwr1150rmessageboardfrm17.showMessage?topicID=82.topic Way too many pictures can be found here: http://anita.smugmug.com/Travel Enjoy! Anita 2002 R1150R From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 7 06:02:44 2003 Subject: Asphalt Buckling From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 07 Jul 2003 05:58:06 -0400 Watch the rides. There are more bumps on the freeway and in particular in the left lane of HOV just before King (after the Duke onramp?) there was a teeth rattler. I think that one's been there but it's certainly higher this morning (*ow*). Carl, on the morning shift this week. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 7 08:15:22 2003 From: "Anita Lauro" To: Subject: Re: Asphalt Buckling Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 08:15:14 -0400 Driving back from Bar Harbor the other week we came across a section of road in PA where the concrete had "shifted" - I'd say there was at least a 4" tall "step" formed by the misplaced sections. A couple of cars had parked along the side of the road with flat tires. I can only think it was the heat that caused it to happen.. either that or a small earthquake! :-) Anita ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Schelin" To: Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 5:58 AM Subject: Asphalt Buckling > Watch the rides. There are more bumps on the freeway and in particular > in the left lane of HOV just before King (after the Duke onramp?) there > was a teeth rattler. I think that one's been there but it's certainly > higher this morning (*ow*). > > Carl, on the morning shift this week. > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 7 09:33:29 2003 Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 06:33:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Trip Report - Nova Scotia/Newfoundland To: Anita Lauro , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Great trip and pictures Anita! --- Anita Lauro wrote: > I got back a few days ago from my 2 week tour of > Nova Scotia and > Newfoundland with the AMA. Overall I had a really > great time, and put ~2900 > miles on my bike. > > Here's a link to a long-ish trip report if anyone is > interested: > > http://pub115.ezboard.com/fbmwr1150rmessageboardfrm17.showMessage?topicID=82.topic > > Way too many pictures can be found here: > > http://anita.smugmug.com/Travel > > Enjoy! > > Anita > 2002 R1150R > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 7 11:29:25 2003 Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 08:29:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Adam Reinhardt Subject: Looking for project bike To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I'm looking for any sort of two-wheeled vehicle in need of attention. I just have too much free weekend time now that my bike is in California and I'm here in DC working. This could be a great garage cleaning opportunity for someone, especially given that my bike fever will likely be affecting my judgement. Adam Reinhardt __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 7 19:24:48 2003 Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 19:19:22 -0400 From: Carl Parker To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" , jreinhardt@XXXXXX Subject: Looking for project bike What kinda ride are you looking for? 70's hardtail? Ninja 250? CBR600? KLR? Goldwing? GSXR? BMW? How much can you spend? Hmmm.... Carlo From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 7 20:31:22 2003 Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 17:31:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Adam Reinhardt Subject: Re: Looking for project bike - (more) specific considerations To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I would prefer a small displacement (i.e. 600 or smaller) Japanese 2 or 4 cylinder bike from 1970-early 1990s, could be street, dirt or dual-sport. I could spend up to about $1000 but would prefer to spend half that and buy a bike with an engine in need of a rebuild. Cosmetics are not particulary important. That said I would prefer not to buy a "basket case" that needs a complete and total restoration but rather would want something with a couple of mechanical problems that need sorting. Also I don't want to deal with a lot (if any) rust. My previous experience with a 1972 Datsun 240Z taught me that lesson. Adam --- Carl Parker wrote: > > What kinda ride are you looking for? 70's hardtail? > Ninja 250? > CBR600? KLR? Goldwing? GSXR? BMW? How much can > you spend? > > Hmmm.... > Carlo > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 7 22:23:36 2003 Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:23:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Larry Larson Subject: Re: Looking for project bike - (more) specific considerations To: Adam Reinhardt Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Adam, Should you be interested, I have a 1984 Honda Interceptor 500 in awfully good physical shape that I'd like to get rid of. It has 4,000 original miles; bought on eBay for about $2k, couldn't get it started after shipping; took it to Crossroads Cycles, and they got it started fine, but it promptly developed a ticking in the valve train, and it has been sitting at Crossroads for over a year now while they have supposedly been looking (not very hard at all, it seems) for a replacement head. I obviously don't have the time to pursue it myself... (Duh -- wish I'd thought of that before.) 8;) There's a picture of the bike at the bottom of the page at http://www.tennisbooks.com/. If you're interested in such a bike, let me know, and I'm sure we could work a deal out. -- Larry --- Adam Reinhardt wrote: > > I would prefer a small displacement (i.e. 600 or > smaller) Japanese 2 or 4 cylinder bike from 1970-early > 1990s, could be street, dirt or dual-sport. I could > spend up to about $1000 but would prefer to spend half > that and buy a bike with an engine in need of a > rebuild. Cosmetics are not particulary important. > That said I would prefer not to buy a "basket case" > that needs a complete and total restoration but rather > would want something with a couple of mechanical > problems that need sorting. Also I don't want to deal > with a lot (if any) rust. My previous experience with > a 1972 Datsun 240Z taught me that lesson. > > > Adam > > > --- Carl Parker wrote: > > > > What kinda ride are you looking for? 70's hardtail? > > Ninja 250? > > CBR600? KLR? Goldwing? GSXR? BMW? How much can > > you spend? > > > > Hmmm.... > > Carlo > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > http://sbc.yahoo.com > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 7 22:57:46 2003 From: "rich hall" To: pltrgyst@XXXXXX, ajreinhardt@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Looking for project bike - (more) specific considerations Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 22:46:31 -0400 Doesn't Fish have an extra GS500? >From: Larry Larson >To: Adam Reinhardt >CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: Looking for project bike - (more) specific considerations >Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:23:32 -0700 (PDT) > >Adam, > >Should you be interested, I have a 1984 Honda Interceptor >500 in awfully good physical shape that I'd like to get rid >of. It has 4,000 original miles; bought on eBay for about >$2k, couldn't get it started after shipping; took it to >Crossroads Cycles, and they got it started fine, but it >promptly developed a ticking in the valve train, and it has >been sitting at Crossroads for over a year now while they >have supposedly been looking (not very hard at all, it >seems) for a replacement head. I obviously don't have the >time to pursue it myself... (Duh -- wish I'd thought of >that before.) 8;) > >There's a picture of the bike at the bottom of the page at >http://www.tennisbooks.com/. > >If you're interested in such a bike, let me know, and I'm >sure we could work a deal out. > >-- Larry > > > > >--- Adam Reinhardt wrote: > > > > I would prefer a small displacement (i.e. 600 or > > smaller) Japanese 2 or 4 cylinder bike from 1970-early > > 1990s, could be street, dirt or dual-sport. I could > > spend up to about $1000 but would prefer to spend half > > that and buy a bike with an engine in need of a > > rebuild. Cosmetics are not particulary important. > > That said I would prefer not to buy a "basket case" > > that needs a complete and total restoration but rather > > would want something with a couple of mechanical > > problems that need sorting. Also I don't want to deal > > with a lot (if any) rust. My previous experience with > > a 1972 Datsun 240Z taught me that lesson. > > > > > > Adam > > > > > > --- Carl Parker wrote: > > > > > > What kinda ride are you looking for? 70's hardtail? > > > Ninja 250? > > > CBR600? KLR? Goldwing? GSXR? BMW? How much can > > > you spend? > > > > > > Hmmm.... > > > Carlo > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > > http://sbc.yahoo.com > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! >http://sbc.yahoo.com > _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 7 22:58:05 2003 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Seca II finally sold Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 22:46:01 -0400 Well I finally sold my Seca II. Thanks to those of you that helped me w/ advice on where & how to sell. Extra thanks to those that helped me w/ the problems that occurred when I was trying to sell it. I had to replace the brake lever after it when down at work. Noticed a missing screw, that had to be replaced. Then it wouldn't start. I emptied a decent amount of water from the gas tank & carbs (thanks Paul & Matt). Replaced the fuel filter, then gave up and took it to Crossroads (thanks Glen). They said it still wasn't starting due to water in the gas line. Got a new gas cap installed. As someone just mentioned, they take their time doing things there. After being out of town several weekends, I finally placed an ad in the Post. Had 2 calls and 1 guy came out. Then it went up on Ebay. Wasn't too happy w/ Ebay until about 2 hours before the auction ended it started moving up. It still didn't reach the reserve, sorry Paul, had to disagree w/ you on that one. I worked out a deal w/ the winner. Him and his dad called to say they would pick it up on the 4th. I decided to wipe it down and warm it up before they got there. Wouldn't start. Wasn't to thrilled w/ that. They arrived, told them the news. Was pretty sure it was from just sitting there. Went out to look at it and it started up right away for them, I was much relieved. They looked happy w/ it and off went my 1st bike. _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 8 00:54:34 2003 Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 21:54:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Looking for project bike - (more) specific considerations On Mon, 7 Jul 2003, rich hall wrote: > Doesn't Fish have an extra GS500? Eh; not quite. If I can get my second GS500 running I'd like to do so (then sell it for about what I bought it for); if not, I'll probably keep it around as a parts/project bike. Frankly, I see no reason I shouldn't be able to get both GS00s running properly, given good care. They both need new chains, both need some work on the front suspension, and one set of carbs needs some serious lovin', but other than that they're both in almost-good shape. I hope to free up some more time in the near future to wrench on them. I recently quit my second job, so that should help. (If anyone wants to take advantage of my 10% discount, now's the time.) Here's to hoping, anyway. Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 8 09:50:01 2003 From: purdyjeremy@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX (The dc-cycles list) Subject: Parking in AC? Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 13:49:17 +0000 X-Authenticated-Sender: cHVyZHlqZXJlbXlAYXR0Lm5ldA== Does anyone know of any motorcycle friendly parking lots / garages near the boardwalk in Atlantic City? I'll be leaving some camping equipment on the bike while I check out the beach and have lunch and I'd rather leave it in some kind of monitored parking establishment. Thanks. -- Jeremy Purdy '00 Yamaha V-Star "That man alone is wise who remains master of himself." - Confucius From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 8 10:02:54 2003 Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 10:02:50 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: Parking in AC? At 09:49 AM 7/8/2003, purdyjeremy@XXXXXX wrote: >Does anyone know of any motorcycle friendly parking lots / garages near the >boardwalk in Atlantic City? I'll be leaving some camping equipment on the >bike >while I check out the beach and have lunch and I'd rather leave it in some >kind >of monitored parking establishment. Don't leave anything on your bike in AC and expect to find it when you come back. AC outside of the beach strip is a real dump and extremely poor. I have watched two muggings and had one car broken into over 3 trips to AC. Many of the casinos facing the boardwalk have parking decks, but as I recall most had no motorcycle signs. You might try Trump Taj Mahal or Bally (North end). And rent a locker. Have fun. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 8 10:36:53 2003 From: "Shigeru Honda" To: Subject: Re: Parking in AC? Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 10:33:56 -0400 I can't recall if it was AC or Vegas but I do remember seeing bunch of motorcycles parked near the elevator of casino parking deck. Yes, don't leave anything on the bike! Also in AC, all sidewalks lead to casino but there is no way out... --------------------- Shigeru Honda 98 SuperHawk (Street) 99 750 SS (Track) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Troutman" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 10:02 AM Subject: Re: Parking in AC? > At 09:49 AM 7/8/2003, purdyjeremy@XXXXXX wrote: > >Does anyone know of any motorcycle friendly parking lots / garages near the > >boardwalk in Atlantic City? I'll be leaving some camping equipment on the > >bike > >while I check out the beach and have lunch and I'd rather leave it in some > >kind > >of monitored parking establishment. > > Don't leave anything on your bike in AC and expect to find it when you come > back. AC outside of the beach strip is a real dump and extremely poor. I > have watched two muggings and had one car broken into over 3 trips to AC. > > Many of the casinos facing the boardwalk have parking decks, but as I > recall most had no motorcycle signs. You might try Trump Taj Mahal or > Bally (North end). And rent a locker. > > Have fun. > > > > ___________________________________________ > Mike Troutman > http://www.troutman.org/vfr > 1997 Honda VFR 750 > AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ > NMA http://www.motorists.org > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 8 14:30:08 2003 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 14:30:05 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Calvin Ledford III Reply-to: Subject: VA State MC inspection... X-vsuite-type: e Does anyone know of a gas station in the Northern VA area that does MC safety inspections? I purchased my Honda VFR800fi in 2000 and have not had it safety inspected since. I)B’ve never had a problem with the law )B– but figure it’s about time to pay the )B“safety tax” before I end up paying a ticket. The issue is that EVERY SINGLE person I know who has an inspection done at a MC shop (with obligatory service dept.) recently has had the same experience - somehow the shop finds a $200-500 dollar repair that they can)B’t pass the bike without correcting. I really don)B’t have time or the finances to deal with that crap – and most of the so-called repairs have been very dubious at best. I just want to pay my $5 dollar tax and ride away with a sticker. Anyhow, I)B’ve heard in the past that gas stations can do the inspections )B– so I’m wondering if anyone has tried it with success. If you have any advice please CC my email at cledford@XXXXXX also )B– thanks, -Calvin Ledford )B‘00VFR800 Interceptor ________________________________________________ Get your own "800" number Voicemail, fax, email, and a lot more http://www.ureach.com/reg/tag From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 8 14:39:56 2003 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 14:39:32 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: VA State MC inspection... This comes up periodically -- if there was ever something to add to the DCC website, this would be it. I've used the citgo near the pentagon end of Columbia Pike for car inspections. Bike inspections I've had done at Cross Road's Cycles. They're good guys. I went to get an inspection done a while back on the VFR -- didn't have any cash with me, just a credit card. They did the inspection and gave me the sticker, then let me go find an ATM. On Tue, 8 Jul 2003, Calvin Ledford III wrote: > Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 14:30:05 -0400 > From: Calvin Ledford III > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: VA State MC inspection... > > Does anyone know of a gas station in the Northern VA area that > does MC safety inspections? -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 8 14:45:26 2003 Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 14:45:22 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, From: Troutman Subject: Re: VA State MC inspection... All of them do it don't they? I use the Mobil in Reston on South Lakes / Safeway shopping center. Fairly rudimentary inspection really. At 02:30 PM 7/8/2003, Calvin Ledford III wrote: >Does anyone know of a gas station in the Northern VA area that >does MC safety inspections? ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 8 14:46:25 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: VA State MC inspection... Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 14:46:19 -0400 > > From: Calvin Ledford III > Does anyone know of a gas station in the Northern VA area that > does MC safety inspections? I purchased my Honda VFR800fi in > 2000 and have not had it safety inspected since. I)B’ve never had > a problem with the law )B– but figure it’s about time to pay the > )B“safety tax” before I end up paying a ticket. The issue is that > EVERY SINGLE person I know who has an inspection done at a MC > shop (with obligatory service dept.) recently has had the same > experience - somehow the shop finds a $200-500 dollar repair > that they can)B’t pass the bike without correcting. I really > don)B’t have time or the finances to deal with that crap – and > most of the so-called repairs have been very dubious at best. I > just want to pay my $5 dollar tax and ride away with a sticker. > > Anyhow, I)B’ve heard in the past that gas stations can do the > inspections )B– so I’m wondering if anyone has tried it with > success. Every gas station I've tried has been willing to inpsect my bikes. No problems at all. Bob Meyer '92 Standard STOC # 1157 If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 8 14:51:08 2003 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 14:51:05 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Calvin Ledford III Reply-to: Subject: Re: VA State MC inspection... X-vsuite-type: e Thanks to everyone who's responded so far - keep 'em coming :) In the mean time hopefully the following will be of some use to others. The reason I may have thought this was a bigger issue then it appears to be turning out is that I had review the "official" inspection guidelines located at the follwing links. The first link (IMHO) looked to say that *if* a MC shop was nearby then you *had to* use them. -Calvin http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+reg+19VAC30-70-330 For general inspection statute regarding where)B… http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+reg+19VAC30-70-350 For steering http://leg1.state.va.us/000/reg/TOC19030.HTM#C0070 Everything else ________________________________________________ Get your own "800" number Voicemail, fax, email, and a lot more http://www.ureach.com/reg/tag From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 8 14:52:04 2003 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 14:52:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Dave Paper To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: VA State MC inspection... On Tue, 8 Jul 2003, Calvin Ledford III wrote: > Does anyone know of a gas station in the Northern VA area that > does MC safety inspections? I can recommend Sterling Auto off Sterling Blvd in Sterling (wow, did I use Sterling enough in that sentance?!) I didn't even have to get off my bike for the inspection to happen. "Left turn signal. Right turn signal. High beams. Low beams. Brake lights. Horn. Okay, yer done. Here's your sticker." -dave -- cerberus@XXXXXX Little bunny Cthulhu hopping through the forest, www.ginch.org picking up fieldmice and ripping out their souls. Your screams, my music. Fight the break of dawn. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 8 14:56:07 2003 From: bernescut@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: VA State MC inspection... Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 14:55:52 -0400 It is my understanding that all Virginia inspection stations can inspect motorcycles as well as cars. Typically in my experience they come up with creative excuses if they don't want to inspect motorcycles, either "the motorcycle guy is off today" or "we ran out of motorcycle-specific stickers" (I've heard the last one 3 years in a row from my local shop:) ). Once you find a willing inspection station it's usually "beepthehornflashthelightsactivatethesignalsgiveme5bucksbyebye" and it's over. It usually takes me more time to get the 5 dollars out of my wallet. This is the place I used this year: SHELL STATION 7023 COLUMBIA PIKE ANNANDALE, VA 22003 703-941-5621 Cedric Bernescut 2000 CBR600F4 Annandale, VA > Does anyone know of a gas station in the Northern VA area that > does MC safety inspections? -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 8 14:58:11 2003 Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 14:54:32 -0400 From: Skip To: cledford@XXXXXX CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: VA State MC inspection... Calvin Ledford III wrote: > > Does anyone know of a gas station in the Northern VA area that > does MC safety inspections? per the Va State police: any inspection station that can do inspections on cars can do them on bikes. $5 do not go to Hunter's woods exxon. the guy that I knew that was there is gone, and the inspector is is very picky. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 8 16:15:16 2003 Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 16:15:31 -0400 To: Troutman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX, From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: VA State MC inspection... If it's still anything like it was 23 years ago when I lived in Virginia and drove a car, if you can stop short of the back wall of the garage, the brakes pass. Tires holding air? Tread passes. If you can flash the lights and toot the horn, that stuff passes. Got seat belts? Car is good to go! Maryland's inspection is a lot tougher...but then again you only have to pass it once! :^) -- Mike "the new guy" Bartman -- At 02:45 PM 7/8/03 -0400, Troutman wrote: >All of them do it don't they? I use the Mobil in Reston on South Lakes / >Safeway shopping center. Fairly rudimentary inspection really. > >At 02:30 PM 7/8/2003, Calvin Ledford III wrote: >>Does anyone know of a gas station in the Northern VA area that >>does MC safety inspections? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 8 16:55:34 2003 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 13:55:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Larry Larson Subject: Re: VA State MC inspection... To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX, cledford@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Bob Meyer wrote: > ....Every gas station I've tried has been willing to inpsect > my bikes. No problems at all. The one problem I've encountered is that not all gas stations, etc. have the special VA motorcycle stickers. With that caveat, it's about a one minute inspection: eyeball the brakes, check the turn signals and lights, and that's about it. Maybe they're pickier on much older bikes, or on those with drum brakes. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 8 19:22:11 2003 Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 19:16:54 -0400 From: Carl Parker To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" , cledford@XXXXXX Subject: Re: VA State MC inspection... Crossroads Cycles in Baileys Crossroads, VA. Go there. Get your bike inspected. Gawk at other strange bikes while they do it. It's an interesting shop too.... FWIW.. Carlo From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 8 19:23:10 2003 Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 19:17:58 -0400 From: Carl Parker To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" , pltrgyst@XXXXXX, ajreinhardt@XXXXXX Subject: Looking for project bike - VF500 heads... Dudes, 84 Interceptors are fookin' sweet...I wish I owned one. Don't sweat the engine work so much... You're looking entirely in the wrong place for older Honda V4 parts. Right on this list are at least a couple of Carl's that could point one in the right direction for practically any Honda V4 part you'd want. Chances are I know someone local in MD that could have exactly what you are looking for. Hell...you could have better work done by him for LESS and he races an Honda V4 of the same era so you can trust he knows them well. I know he's done work on the 84 Ceptor cuz' I've ridden one of his... This is the world that some call "Sabmag".... If you'd like to find out more you could ask me or the "older, weirder, Carl" (Custer). Combined, we're guaranteed to confuse you. :P From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 9 06:14:36 2003 Subject: Re: VA State MC inspection... From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: cledford@XXXXXX Date: 09 Jul 2003 06:10:02 -0400 On Tue, 2003-07-08 at 14:30, Calvin Ledford III wrote: > Does anyone know of a gas station in the Northern VA area that > does MC safety inspections? I purchased my Honda VFR800fi in > 2000 and have not had it safety inspected since. Ive never had > a problem with the law but figure its about time to pay the > safety tax before I end up paying a ticket. The issue is that > EVERY SINGLE person I know who has an inspection done at a MC > shop (with obligatory service dept.) recently has had the same > experience - somehow the shop finds a $200-500 dollar repair > that they cant pass the bike without correcting. You must have missed my June e-mail. I got my Harley inspected and it just cost 5 bucks. Of course Coleman's in Woodbridge couldn't figure out how to turn on the bike :-) Maybe if you take it to a Harley dealer for inspection they'll do the same thing. Since Coleman's in Woodbridge doesn't sell Hondas, you might get away with there. Otherwise I can't imagine why any inspection station couldn't check your bike. Brakes, tires, lights, horn I think was all they checked on mine. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 9 08:29:43 2003 Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 05:29:35 -0700 (PDT) From: "Louis F. Caplan" Subject: VA bike inspection To: DC-Cycles Chris Norloff recommended this place to me a few years back. The guy there saw that the driving lights I added weren't working correctly, and told me to come back after I take the lights off before he "officially" starts the inspection. When I went back the following week, it was flick the beams, honk the horn, use the turn signals, tap the brakes, make sure there was some brake pad left, $5, and off you go. --- Chris Norloff wrote: > Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 09:27:28 -0400 > From: "Chris Norloff" > Subject: RE: Stupid question, where do I go to get a bike inspected? > > Right now I'm using Broad Street Service center, in the city of Falls Church. > Good folks, don't get worked up about stuff. > > Chris ===== "Admiral" Louis Caplan 1998 Kawasaki Concours Fairfax, VA Please consider helping me support the Pediatrics Brain Tumor Foundation http://www.geocities.com/nighthawk700/rideforkids.htm __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 9 09:44:36 2003 Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 06:44:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Aaron Subject: Custom seat work; DC inspection To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX A friend just started riding again after a few years absence, and picked up a cherry R75/7 from a guy in Virginia. He passed the NoVA MSF course with flying colors this weekend. The seat is about 1-1/2 - 2" too tall . . . he's on the balls of his feet when straddlong the bike. Usually that's not a problem (when riding around), but it becomes an issue when he's got to move the bike with his legs while sitting in the saddle (e.g., when maneuvering into his parking space). Anyone got any recommendations for a local place that can cut down the seat? ==================== Also, he's scheduled to take the DC DMV riding test (in September! - first opening they had). What does this involve? (I assume U-turn. Braking. Anything else?) Does anyone have a source for a bike (to borrow, hopefully, or rent) on which it would be easier to take the test than the 500 lb balky dry-clutch R75? Thanks, Aaron __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 9 10:07:31 2003 Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 10:04:27 -0400 From: Skip To: Larry Larson , DC Cycles Subject: Re: VA State MC inspection... Larry Larson wrote: > > --- Bob Meyer wrote: > > ....Every gas station I've tried has been willing to > inpsect > > my bikes. No problems at all. > > The one problem I've encountered is that not all gas > stations, etc. have the special VA motorcycle stickers. > With that caveat, it's about a one minute inspection: > eyeball the brakes, check the turn signals and lights, and > that's about it. Maybe they're pickier on much older bikes, > or on those with drum brakes. I suspect that they are lying to you. if they do that, contact the state police. fuckers gotta do their job, and if they aren't competent to inspect a motorcycle, they ought to have their license yanked. --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 9 10:09:56 2003 Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 10:06:54 -0400 From: Skip CC: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" , pltrgyst@XXXXXX, ajreinhardt@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Looking for project bike - VF500 heads... Carl Parker wrote: > > Dudes, > > 84 Interceptors are fookin' sweet...I wish I owned one. Don't sweat the > engine work so much... > > You're looking entirely in the wrong place for older Honda V4 parts. > Right on this list are at least a couple of Carl's that could point one > in the right direction for practically any Honda V4 part you'd want. > Chances are I know someone local in MD that could have exactly what you > are looking for. Hell...you could have better work done by him for LESS > and he races an Honda V4 of the same era so you can trust he knows them > well. I know he's done work on the 84 Ceptor cuz' I've ridden one of > his... > > This is the world that some call "Sabmag".... > > If you'd like to find out more you could ask me or the "older, weirder, > Carl" (Custer). Combined, we're guaranteed to confuse you. :P I can attest to the generosity, integrity, and knowledge of sabmaggots. a finer bunch of folks you'll not find on the internet. --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 9 10:17:56 2003 Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 10:18:22 -0400 To: DC Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: VA State MC inspection... At 10:04 AM 7/9/03 -0400, Skip wrote: >Larry Larson wrote: >> >> --- Bob Meyer wrote: >> > ....Every gas station I've tried has been willing to >> inpsect my bikes. No problems at all. >> >> The one problem I've encountered is that not all gas >> stations, etc. have the special VA motorcycle stickers. > >I suspect that they are lying to you. if they do that, contact the state >police. fuckers gotta do their job, and if they aren't competent to inspect a >motorcycle, they ought to have their license yanked. A state cop can yank a license on the spot too. A long time ago I worked at an Exxon station in Va. Beach. They had told someone who came in 10 minutes before closing that they couldn't inspect their car that day. The customer got pissed, called the state cops and the cop who showed up pulled the license. The inspection hours were posted, the customer arrived during those hours. Failure to inspect during posted hours was a violation, so no license. Took them almost a year to get it back. -- Mike P.S. there's a lot more required of an inspection than what is usually done. Check the official list sometime...it's a lot more than "can you stop, blink, honk and fasten seat belts". They are supposed to check wheel bearings, exhaust system integrity, etc.. Back when I lived there they'd test the exhaust system by putting a rag over the exhaust pipe and if it built up any pressure at all, it was good. :^) **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 9 10:33:03 2003 Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:32:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Larry Larson Subject: Re: VA State MC inspection... To: Skip , DC Cycles --- Skip wrote: > > The one problem I've encountered is that not all gas > > stations, etc. have the special VA motorcycle stickers. > > With that caveat, it's about a one minute inspection: > > eyeball the brakes, check the turn signals and lights, > and > > that's about it. Maybe they're pickier on much older > bikes, > > or on those with drum brakes. > > > I suspect that they are lying to you. About what -- the stickers? No, the stickers definitely seem to be moto-specific. Even the place where I routinely have my bikes inspected (Heinz Kesterman in Old Town Alex.) occasionally has to take a few minutes to hunt for the moto stickers before they can check my bike. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 9 10:42:05 2003 Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 10:39:01 -0400 From: Skip To: Larry Larson CC: DC Cycles Subject: Re: VA State MC inspection... Larry Larson wrote: > > --- Skip wrote: > > > The one problem I've encountered is that not all gas > > > stations, etc. have the special VA motorcycle stickers. > > > With that caveat, it's about a one minute inspection: > > > eyeball the brakes, check the turn signals and lights, > > and > > > that's about it. Maybe they're pickier on much older > > bikes, > > > or on those with drum brakes. > > > > > > I suspect that they are lying to you. > > About what -- the stickers? No, the stickers definitely > seem to be moto-specific. Even the place where I routinely > have my bikes inspected (Heinz Kesterman in Old Town Alex.) > occasionally has to take a few minutes to hunt for the moto > stickers before they can check my bike. I suspect they are lying to you about not having them. they are required to maintain the proper supplies, and I'm sure that they do. an inspection license is a) not easy to get, b)a valuable commodity, and c) a freaking gold mine. Most places won't risk getting dinged for something as silly as not having the proper supplies on hand. They don't really know what to check on a bike, and they don't want to get caught letting something pass that shoudln't, so they say they don't have the stickers to get out of doing the inspection. put it this way... if no one had told you how, would you know how to see if the drums brakes on a bike still have pad left? the inspector usually doesn't want to risk his livlihood on a maybe. --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 9 11:07:31 2003 Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:07:26 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: VA State MC inspection... To: DC Cycles Skip said: >I suspect they are lying to you about not having them. they >are required to maintain the proper supplies, and I'm sure >that they do. an inspection license is a) not easy to get, >b)a valuable commodity, and c) a freaking gold mine. [Dave] They're a gold mine in MD, where you can get bent over the ceremonial log to pass, but in VA they're not anywhere near as selective or strict, and not a big profit margin. $5 and it took ~15 minutes for my bike roll in to roll out. The cage in front took about the same, maybe a hair longer. That's not a whole lot for 30 minutes work. Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 9 12:47:41 2003 Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 09:47:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Hugh Caldwell Subject: 10 best roads in WVa To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Recently the motorcycle times had a list of the 10 best roads in WVa. Here they are with a few remarks from the article 10. US50 We all know this one 9. WV4 65 miles long joins towns of Clendenin and Gassaway. Parallels Elk River supposedly super twisty. 8. WV36 40 miles between Spenscer and Maysel. Best part is pass over Clover Ridge (6 miles of switchbacks). 7. WV3 100 miles between West Hamlin and Beckley (Southern West Virginia). Parallels Big Coal River. 6. WV20 260 miles from New Martinsville to Bluefield (North to South). 5. WV10 150 miles along western edge. Best part is 50 mile section from Cyclone to Kegley(burrrp). 4. WV39 1000 miles starts at VA border and crosses Monongehela National Forest. 3. WV7/9 250 miles. Charles Town, Martinsburg, Berkely Springs, Creat Cacapon, North on WV29 to PawPaw onto Cumberland. US220 south to MD135 to WV7. 55 miles of WV7 between Morgantown and New Martinsville is the best part. 2. WV28 Starts at WVa/MD border 175 miles between Ridgeley and Huntersville is all seeping turns connected by valley straight-aways. 1. WV150 The Highland Scenic Highway. 20 miles from Cranberry Glades to Edray. follows 4,700' ridge of Black Mountain. Hmmm no mention of 33! later, Hugh __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 9 13:05:33 2003 Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 13:05:21 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: 10 best roads in WVa Or 60. I enjoy 60 because of all of the small towns - and fun roads between them. Not to mention the mountain switchbacks. At 12:47 PM 7/9/2003, you wrote: >Hmmm no mention of 33! ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they would never expect it -- Jack Handey From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 9 13:19:12 2003 Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 13:19:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Kel Utendorf To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: 10 best roads in WVa Bob&Tom: They're not just in INDY anymore! On Wed, 9 Jul 2003, Hugh Caldwell wrote: >4. WV39 > 1000 miles starts at VA border and crosses >Monongehela National Forest. Now that must be one curvy road to fit 1000 miles of it into WVa! Can't wait to ride it... DocK From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 9 13:27:13 2003 Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:27:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: 10 best roads in WVa To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Hugh Caldwell wrote: > Recently the motorcycle times had a list of the 10 > best roads in WVa. Here they are with a few remarks > from the article > 1. WV150 > The Highland Scenic Highway. 20 miles from > Cranberry Glades to Edray. follows 4,700' ridge of > Black Mountain. may the motorcycle times print facility burn to the ground. -- tg __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 9 13:49:21 2003 Subject: Re: 10 best roads in WVa Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:50:00 -0500 From: To: , What about Rt 219? Rt 72? Rt 42? Even 55? Scenic 150 is good for crusiers I guess, not very twisty. George >>> Hugh Caldwell 07/09/03 12:47PM >>> Recently the motorcycle times had a list of the 10 best roads in WVa. Here they are with a few remarks from the article From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 9 14:44:20 2003 Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 14:42:42 -0400 From: Dale Horstman To: Hugh Caldwell CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: 10 best roads in WVa Hugh Caldwell wrote: > 4. WV39 > 1000 miles starts at VA border and crosses > Monongehela National Forest. Hmm, sounds like a road worth riding. :) Hork -- Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark) Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX "My ambition in life is to Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth minimize my stress level." CM #001 NRA IBA COG '98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer '99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi '82 Suzuki GS850G - Neat old bike From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 9 15:24:27 2003 Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 15:23:12 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Skip CC: Larry Larson , DC Cycles Subject: Re: VA State MC inspection... Skip wrote: > I suspect they are lying to you about not having them. they are required to > maintain the proper supplies, and I'm sure that they do. an inspection license > is a) not easy to get, b)a valuable commodity, and c) a freaking gold mine. > Most places won't risk getting dinged for something as silly as not having the > proper supplies on hand. They don't really know what to check on a bike, and > they don't want to get caught letting something pass that shoudln't, so they say > they don't have the stickers to get out of doing the inspection. > > put it this way... if no one had told you how, would you know how to see if the > drums brakes on a bike still have pad left? the inspector usually doesn't want > to risk his livlihood on a maybe. > > --skip Well, every drum brake I had on bikes had an inspection window. Remove oval bootie, peek inside at the lining, replace oval bootie thang. I have no clue if the peeker hole worked as advertised - never looked. Squeeze brakes, bike stops, why worry? Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 9 15:24:34 2003 Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:24:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: 10 best roads in WVa To: Dale Horstman , Hugh Caldwell Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX it gets less interesting out towards charleston.... but 39 REALLY rocks for the first 100 or so miles heading west from lexington --- Dale Horstman wrote: > Hugh Caldwell wrote: > > > 4. WV39 > > 1000 miles starts at VA border and crosses > > Monongehela National Forest. > > Hmm, sounds like a road worth riding. :) > > Hork __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 9 16:13:06 2003 From: "Perry Coleman" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: 10 best roads in WVa Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 16:12:55 -0400 Yeah, I was kind of wondering about that. I guess it's like many WV roads. It may only be 100 miles as the crow flies, but with all the hills, valleys, twists and turns, it's more like 1,000... ;^) Perry >From: Dale Horstman >To: Hugh Caldwell >CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: 10 best roads in WVa >Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 14:42:42 -0400 > >Hugh Caldwell wrote: > > > 4. WV39 > > 1000 miles starts at VA border and crosses > > Monongehela National Forest. > >Hmm, sounds like a road worth riding. :) > >Hork > >-- >Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark) > >Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX "My ambition in life is to >Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth minimize my stress level." >CM #001 NRA IBA COG > >'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer >'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi >'82 Suzuki GS850G - Neat old bike > _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 9 16:31:25 2003 From: Jason Picton To: Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: 10 best roads in WVa Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 16:30:32 -0400 I agree... I went to charlestown wva for the HSTA Star a few weeks back... 39 is fun.. so is 15 too... Jason -----Original Message----- From: Tom Gimer [mailto:t_gimer@XXXXXX] Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 3:24 PM To: Dale Horstman; Hugh Caldwell Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: 10 best roads in WVa it gets less interesting out towards charleston.... but 39 REALLY rocks for the first 100 or so miles heading west from lexington --- Dale Horstman wrote: > Hugh Caldwell wrote: > > > 4. WV39 > > 1000 miles starts at VA border and crosses > > Monongehela National Forest. > > Hmm, sounds like a road worth riding. :) > > Hork __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 9 20:09:39 2003 Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 17:09:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Larry Larson Subject: Re: VF500 heads... To: "Custer, Carl" , "'carl@XXXXXX'" Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Thanks to both Carls for all the info. Guess I'll have to get off my duff and do something about it. The question is what I can move out of the garage to create some actual working room if I bring the VF500F home... I actually used to read Sabmag when I had my Magna, but never had to take advantage of any of the resources there back then. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 9 20:22:58 2003 From: "Gavin Ruddy" To: Subject: Re: VA State MC inspection... Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 20:24:51 -0400 I took my bike last year to the Texaco in Lorton. The only problem I had was the guy hoped on the bike and road it around the parking lot. He said he had to check it that way! Yeah, sure!! From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 9 21:36:07 2003 Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 21:34:57 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Gavin Ruddy CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: VA State MC inspection... Gavin Ruddy wrote: > I took my bike last year to the Texaco in Lorton. The only problem I had > was the guy hoped on the bike and road it around the parking lot. He said > he had to check it that way! Yeah, sure!! He might be right. During one M/C inspection, the inspector said he had to ride it to check brake operation or have me ride it and make two stops next to him, one with front brake only, other with rear only. He didn't want to ride, so I did. Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 00:36:46 2003 Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 23:36:46 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Sean Jordan Subject: Interesting article Stumbled across this today, quite by accident. http://channels.netscape.com/ns/autos/package.jsp?name=autos/bikes_better -Sean Jordan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 00:38:35 2003 Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 23:38:36 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Sean Jordan Subject: D'oh... Meant to include the following link and make the title read "articles." The first link was really fluff. Not much meat to it. -Sean Jordan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 06:05:34 2003 Subject: Re: VA State MC inspection... From: Carl Schelin To: "William J. Huson" Cc: Skip , Larry Larson , DC Cycles Date: 10 Jul 2003 06:01:16 -0400 On Wed, 2003-07-09 at 15:23, William J. Huson wrote: > Skip wrote: > > > put it this way... if no one had told you how, would you know how to see if the > > drums brakes on a bike still have pad left? the inspector usually doesn't want > > to risk his livlihood on a maybe. > > > > --skip > > Well, every drum brake I had on bikes had an inspection window. Remove oval bootie, > peek inside at the lining, replace oval bootie thang. I have no clue if the peeker > hole worked as advertised - never looked. Squeeze brakes, bike stops, why worry? > My 750 has a small triangle on the drum. The end of the brake bar has a pointer. As the lining gets worn away, the points get closer. v A====== > Bill > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 07:51:55 2003 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 07:51:35 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: gavinman@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: VA State MC inspection... I'm afraid I would have had to kick his ass for that one and then taken it somewhere else. Was he gonna pay for any damage he might have done? I think not. Scooter In a message dated 7/9/2003 7:24:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, gavinman@XXXXXX writes: > > > I took my bike last year to the Texaco in Lorton. The only problem I had > was the guy hoped on the bike and road it around the > parking lot. He said > he had to check it that way! Yeah, sure!! From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 07:53:06 2003 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 07:52:45 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: bhuson@XXXXXX, gavinman@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: VA State MC inspection... I've never heard of that or had it happen. Something new? Scooter In a message dated 7/9/2003 8:34:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, bhuson@XXXXXX writes: > > > Gavin Ruddy wrote: > > > I took my bike last year to the Texaco in Lorton. The only problem I had > > was the guy hoped on the bike and road it around the parking lot. He said > > he had to check it that way! Yeah, sure!! > > He might be right. During one M/C inspection, the inspector said he had to > ride it to check brake operation or have me ride it and make two stops next to > him, one with front brake only, other with rear only. He > didn't want to ride, > so I did. > > Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 07:54:36 2003 From: To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: VA State MC inspection... Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 7:54:27 -0400 I hae to agree that riding the bike around to check the brakes is bs. If that were the case, how come they don't do that with cages? All they check is pad wear. I have front and rear disks, it's a no brainer to make a visual check. Ain't no inspector going to ride my bike around on an "official" joy ride. > > From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX > Date: 2003/07/10 Thu AM 07:51:35 EDT > To: gavinman@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: VA State MC inspection... > > I'm afraid I would have had to kick his ass for that one and then taken it somewhere else. Was he gonna pay for any damage he might have done? I think not. > > Scooter > > In a message dated 7/9/2003 7:24:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, gavinman@XXXXXX writes: > > > > > > > I took my bike last year to the Texaco in Lorton. The only problem I had > > was the guy hoped on the bike and road it around the > > parking lot. He said > > he had to check it that way! Yeah, sure!! > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 07:54:43 2003 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:06:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: VA State MC inspection... On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: > I'm afraid I would have had to kick his ass for that one and then taken it somewhere else. Was he gonna pay for any damage he might have done? I think not. > > Scooter Wouldn't it make more sense to tell him that you didn't want him to ride it? Kicking his ass for riding your bike with your permission seems a little extreme. :-) -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 08:02:52 2003 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:01:41 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: adamme1@XXXXXX CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: VA State MC inspection... adamme1@XXXXXX wrote: > I hae to agree that riding the bike around to check the brakes is bs. If that were the case, how come they don't do that with cages? All they check is pad wear. I have front and rear disks, it's a no brainer to make a visual check. Ain't no inspector going to ride my bike around on an "official" joy ride. Actually, many inspectors drive your car/truck into the bay. Not much of a brake check, but unless aforementioned vehicle blasts thru the rear of the garage bay, brakes must work. In New Joisey, the inspector accelerates your cage down a tunnel and goes full-on stop over four pads which measure braking force on all wheels. They must be within equality specs R/L and F/R. NJ never looks at the linings, just makes sure the damn things work. Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 08:06:48 2003 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:05:40 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX CC: gavinman@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: VA State MC inspection... ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: > I've never heard of that or had it happen. Something new? > > Scooter Only happened to me with one inspector. I believe he was adhering to the letter of the inspection law, whereas other inspectors blow off the actual stop test and just sneak a peek at the pads. One time I had the "Nice Bike" inspection. Dude asks me if the lights and horn worked and I sez "sure thang." He takes my $5, hands me the sticker and tells me I can put it on where I want it. "Nice Bike," he sez, strolling back into the garage with my $5. Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 08:08:15 2003 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:08:05 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: wayne@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: VA State MC inspection... Yeah but, the original post said, "the guy hopped on the bike and road it around the parking lot. He said he had to check it that way!" That tells me that he just did it and didn't ask first. If he were to ask me I would tell him "No way" and "either I ride it for the inspection or I ride it someplace else." :-) Scooter In a message dated 7/10/2003 7:06:17 AM Eastern Standard Time, wayne@XXXXXX writes: > > > On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: > > > I'm afraid I would have had to kick his ass for that one and then taken it somewhere else. Was he gonna pay for any damage he might have done? I think not. > > > > Scooter > > Wouldn't it make more sense to tell him that you didn't want him to ride > it? Kicking his ass for riding your bike with your > permission seems a > little extreme. > > :-) > > -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 08:12:07 2003 From: To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: VA State MC inspection... Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 8:12:01 -0400 > > From: "William J. Huson" > Date: 2003/07/10 Thu AM 08:01:41 EDT > To: adamme1@XXXXXX > CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: VA State MC inspection... > > adamme1@XXXXXX wrote: > > > I hae to agree that riding the bike around to check the brakes is bs. If that were the case, how come they don't do that with cages? All they check is pad wear. I have front and rear disks, it's a no brainer to make a visual check. Ain't no inspector going to ride my bike around on an "official" joy ride. > > Actually, many inspectors drive your car/truck into the bay. Not much of a brake check, but unless aforementioned vehicle blasts thru the rear of the garage bay, brakes must work. In New Joisey, the inspector accelerates your cage down a tunnel and goes full-on stop over four pads which measure braking force on > all wheels. They must be within equality specs R/L and F/R. NJ never looks at the linings, just makes sure the damn things work. > > Bill > > Then the Va inspector should pass the vehicle by virtue of it stopping when they drove it into the bay. Why even check the linings after that? ;-) As for NJ, no body ever accused them of doing anything logical. BTW, I don't give a damn what their law is/was, no gas jockey is going to fill my bikes tank. And as for their pseudo brake inspections. Ok, the car stops in their tunnel within specs but it doesn't mean the car has any more than a 100 miles of pad life left in them. Since motor vehicles are, by nature, "mobile", I would think that a national standard should be developed to inspect cars. There is one for commercial trucks already, I don't see what the big deal is to institute a standard safety inspection for cars. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 08:17:08 2003 From: "Bruce N" To: Subject: Re: Re: VA State MC inspection... Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:16:25 -0400 You folks need to calm down. As a former Va state inspector I can assure you that the inspector has the right to operate any vehicle submitted for inspection. As a matter of fact the inspector is required to pull the vehicle into the inspection lane himself. He can even take it on the road if he wants. A Va state inspector is the only person allowed to operate a vehicle on Va roadways without an inspection sticker. http://www.vsp.state.va.us/safety.htm Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 7:54 AM Subject: Re: Re: VA State MC inspection... > I hae to agree that riding the bike around to check the brakes is bs. If that were the case, how come they don't do that with cages? All they check is pad wear. I have front and rear disks, it's a no brainer to make a visual check. Ain't no inspector going to ride my bike around on an "official" joy ride. > > > > > > From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX > > Date: 2003/07/10 Thu AM 07:51:35 EDT > > To: gavinman@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > Subject: Re: VA State MC inspection... > > > > I'm afraid I would have had to kick his ass for that one and then taken it somewhere else. Was he gonna pay for any damage he might have done? I think not. > > > > Scooter > > > > In a message dated 7/9/2003 7:24:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, gavinman@XXXXXX writes: > > > > > > > > > > > I took my bike last year to the Texaco in Lorton. The only problem I had > > > was the guy hoped on the bike and road it around the > > > parking lot. He said > > > he had to check it that way! Yeah, sure!! > > > > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 08:20:10 2003 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:19:46 -0400 From: Skip Smith To: adamme1@XXXXXX CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: VA State MC inspection... the inspector is supposed to drive it into the bay now. if he doesn't, he's not following the manual. adamme1@XXXXXX wrote: > > I hae to agree that riding the bike around to check the brakes is bs. If that were the case, how come they don't do that with cages? All they check is pad wear. I have front and rear disks, it's a no brainer to make a visual check. Ain't no inspector going to ride my bike around on an "official" joy ride. > > > > > From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX > > Date: 2003/07/10 Thu AM 07:51:35 EDT > > To: gavinman@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > Subject: Re: VA State MC inspection... > > > > I'm afraid I would have had to kick his ass for that one and then taken it somewhere else. Was he gonna pay for any damage he might have done? I think not. > > > > Scooter > > > > In a message dated 7/9/2003 7:24:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, gavinman@XXXXXX writes: > > > > > > > > > > > I took my bike last year to the Texaco in Lorton. The only problem I had > > > was the guy hoped on the bike and road it around the > > > parking lot. He said > > > he had to check it that way! Yeah, sure!! > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 08:39:22 2003 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:39:07 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: VA State MC inspection... To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Wayne rhetorically asked: >> I'm afraid I would have had to kick his ass for that >>one ... Scooter > >Wouldn't it make more sense to tell him that you didn't want >him to ride it? Kicking his ass for riding your bike with >your permission seems a little extreme. > >:-) [Dave] I believe the original verbiage said something along the lines of "I'm going to have to ride it ... to test the brakes" - basically witholding an inspection sticker. All my inspections have been inclusive of a visual on the brake pads & rotors, and as previously pointed out, they don't test drive the cages (like in MD). He wouldn't be kicking his ass for riding the bike with his permission, rather, for trying to blackmail him into *getting* permission to ride it. I'd say then that an ass-kicking would be in line for this offense, even if the inspector simply "didn't know", it would serve as a reminder and deterrent for next time. ;-) Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 08:40:58 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: "Bruce N" , Subject: Re: Re: VA State MC inspection... Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 8:40:51 -0400 > > From: "Bruce N" > Date: 2003/07/10 Thu AM 08:16:25 EDT > To: > Subject: Re: Re: VA State MC inspection... > > You folks need to calm down. As a former Va state inspector I can assure you > that the inspector has the right to operate any vehicle submitted for > inspection. As a matter of fact the inspector is required to pull the > vehicle into the inspection lane himself. He can even take it on the road if > he wants. A Va state inspector is the only person allowed to operate a > vehicle on Va roadways without an inspection sticker. > > http://www.vsp.state.va.us/safety.htm I assume, however, that to ride a motorcycle, even into the bay, he must have a motorcycle endorsement on his license? I'll bet not 1 in 10 does, and crashing a customer's bike without the proper license would certainly involve significant liability. In 20 years of living in Virginia, most of that time with multiple MCs, I've not once had an inspector ride my bike into the bay. They've always directed me to do it. Bob Meyer '92 Standard STOC # 1157 If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 08:46:38 2003 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:46:28 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Re: VA State MC inspection... To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Comrade Aki opined: >Since motor vehicles are, by nature, "mobile", I would think >that a national standard should be developed to inspect ... [Dave] err... No thanks. The list of federal government boondoggles is roughly equivalent to the size of the entire DC Cycles archives to the 10,000th power. Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 08:48:54 2003 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:48:40 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: bcn@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: VA State MC inspection... Bruce, Thanks for the info. However, that seems to be completely geared towards cars and not motorcycles. By digging deeper on that website, this part seems to explain it better. http://leg1.state.va.us/000/reg/TOC19030.HTM#C0070 See Sections 330 through 420 "19VAC30-70-340. Motorcycle brakes. A. The inspector, if qualified to operate a motorcycle, must drive it into the inspection lane and test the service brakes. If not qualified to operate motorcycles, the inspector must observe the operator operate the brakes. The inspector is required to observe and inspect the braking system on both wheels if so equipped or required to be equipped." Any inspector even thinking about getting on my bike better show me an "M" endorsement on his license before I even consider it. Just because he "hops on" and says that that is how he's "supposed to do it" doesn't mean he's qualified to ride it. Plus, this only says he's supposed to "drive it into the inspection lane and test the service brakes." I also saw that it says he can reject it if "11. When operated at 20 miles per hour on a dry, level, hard surface free from loose material, the brakes will not stop the motorcycle within 30 feet." That still doesn't say that he has the right or qualifications to ride it around in the parking lot. Let alone take it out on the street. I have no doubt that you were an excellent inspector, I just don't trust my bike to anyone I don't know. :-) Scooter In a message dated 7/10/2003 7:16:25 AM Eastern Standard Time, bcn@XXXXXX writes: > > > You folks need to calm down. As a former Va state inspector I can assure you > that the inspector has the right to operate any vehicle submitted for > inspection. As a matter of fact the inspector is required to pull the > vehicle into the inspection lane himself. He can even take it on the road if > he wants. A Va state inspector is the only person allowed to operate a > vehicle on Va roadways without an inspection sticker. > > http://www.vsp.state.va.us/safety.htm > > Bruce > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 7:54 AM > Subject: Re: Re: VA State MC inspection... > > > > I hae to agree that riding the bike around to check the brakes is bs. If > that were the case, how come they don't do that with cages? All they check > is pad wear. I have front and rear disks, it's a no brainer to make a > visual check. Ain't no inspector going to ride my bike around on an > "official" joy ride. > > > > > > > > > > From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX > > > Date: 2003/07/10 Thu AM 07:51:35 EDT > > > To: gavinman@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > > Subject: Re: VA State MC inspection... > > > > > > I'm afraid I would have had to kick his ass for that one and then taken > it somewhere else. Was he gonna pay for any damage he might have done? I > think not. > > > > > > Scooter > > > > > > In a message dated 7/9/2003 7:24:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, > gavinman@XXXXXX writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I took my bike last year to the Texaco in Lorton. > The only problem I > had > > > > was the guy hoped on the bike and road it around the > > > > parking lot. He said > > > > he had to check it that way! Yeah, sure!! > > > > > > > > > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 08:53:03 2003 From: "Perry Coleman" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: VA State MC inspection... Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:52:40 -0400 Actually, this is what differentiates a motorcycle inspection station from the others in Maryland. Maryland requires the inspector to road-test the vehicle. So, to qualify for MC inspection status, the inspector(s) must have the MC endorsement on their license. Perry >From: Bob Meyer >Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX >To: "Bruce N" , >Subject: Re: Re: VA State MC inspection... >Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 8:40:51 -0400 > > > > > > From: "Bruce N" > > Date: 2003/07/10 Thu AM 08:16:25 EDT > > To: > > Subject: Re: Re: VA State MC inspection... > > > > You folks need to calm down. As a former Va state inspector I can assure >you > > that the inspector has the right to operate any vehicle submitted for > > inspection. As a matter of fact the inspector is required to pull the > > vehicle into the inspection lane himself. He can even take it on the >road if > > he wants. A Va state inspector is the only person allowed to operate a > > vehicle on Va roadways without an inspection sticker. > > > > http://www.vsp.state.va.us/safety.htm > >I assume, however, that to ride a motorcycle, even into the bay, he must >have a motorcycle endorsement on his license? I'll bet not 1 in 10 does, >and crashing a customer's bike without the proper license would certainly >involve significant liability. In 20 years of living in Virginia, most of >that time with multiple MCs, I've not once had an inspector ride my bike >into the bay. They've always directed me to do it. > >Bob Meyer >'92 Standard >STOC # 1157 > >If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible >warning. > _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 08:55:19 2003 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:54:57 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: skip@XXXXXX, adamme1@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: VA State MC inspection... Ahhh but, according to the VA State Inspection Code, which Bruce so helpfully furnished us (Thanks Bruce :-)), the inspector must be qualified to operate a motorcycle to pull it into the inspection lane. I guarantee most of them aren't. Especially the ones who say "nice Harley" when you're riding an R6. ;-) Scooter In a message dated 7/10/2003 7:19:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, skip@XXXXXX writes: > > > the inspector is supposed to drive it into the bay now. if he doesn't, > he's not following the manual. > > adamme1@XXXXXX wrote: > > > > I hae to agree that riding the bike around to check the brakes is bs. If that were the case, how come they don't do that with cages? All they check is pad wear. I have front and rear disks, it's a no brainer to make a visual check. Ain't no inspector going to ride my bike around on an "official" joy ride. > > > > > > > > From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX > > > Date: 2003/07/10 Thu AM 07:51:35 EDT > > > To: gavinman@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > > Subject: Re: VA State MC inspection... > > > > > > I'm afraid I would have had to kick his ass for that one and then taken it somewhere else. Was he gonna pay for any damage he might have done? I think not. > > > > > > Scooter > > > > > > In a message dated 7/9/2003 7:24:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, gavinman@XXXXXX writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I took my bike last year to the Texaco in Lorton. > The only problem I had > > > > was the guy hoped on the bike and road it around the > > > > parking lot. He said > > > > he had to check it that way! Yeah, sure!! > > > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 09:20:24 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:20:14 EDT Subject: Re: VA State MC inspection... To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/10/2003 7:54:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time, adamme1@XXXXXX writes: > I have to agree that riding the bike around to check the brakes is bs. Another vote with the BS crowd. Lets see..... hop on and ride to see if the bike has brakes.... What if it doesnt? I for one like to check _first_. And if it has working brakes why do you need a ride to see if it has brakes? Yea, its bullshit. BTW I was a licensed inspector in NC for a while. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 09:24:43 2003 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 06:24:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Aaron Subject: Second try - seat; DC-test To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX 1) Really? No one has any recommendations for a local place that can modify/lower a seat? 2) Re: the DC DMV driving test, I pulled these from the archives (for future reference): http://www.dccycles.com/arch/2003/5/235Re:%20DC%20rider%20road%20test http://www.dccycles.com/arch/2003/5/234Re:%20DC%20rider%20road%20test http://www.dccycles.com/arch/2002/8/518Re:%20DMV%20Skills%20Test http://www.dccycles.com/arch/2002/8/491Re:%20DMV%20Skills%20test http://www.dccycles.com/arch/02/04/apr00562 http://www.dccycles.com/arch/02/04/apr00540 but I'd be pleased to hear if anyone knows a place to borrow, beg or steal a smaller bike for the test. Thanks, -Aaron ============= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 06:44:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Aaron Subject: Custom seat work; DC inspection To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX A friend just started riding again after a few years absence, and picked up a cherry R75/7 from a guy in Virginia. He passed the NoVA MSF course with flying colors this weekend. The seat is about 1-1/2 - 2" too tall . . . he's on the balls of his feet when straddlong the bike. Usually that's not a problem (when riding around), but it becomes an issue when he's got to move the bike with his legs while sitting in the saddle (e.g., when maneuvering into his parking space). Anyone got any recommendations for a local place that can cut down the seat? ==================== Also, he's scheduled to take the DC DMV riding test (in September! - first opening they had). What does this involve? (I assume U-turn. Braking. Anything else?) Does anyone have a source for a bike (to borrow, hopefully, or rent) on which it would be easier to take the test than the 500 lb balky dry-clutch R75? Thanks, Aaron __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 09:29:28 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:29:19 EDT Subject: Re: VA State MC inspection... To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/10/2003 8:03:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time, bhuson@XXXXXX writes: > In New Joisey, the inspector accelerates your cage down a tunnel and goes > full-on stop over four pads which measure braking force on > all wheels. Back when FL had an inspection they used the same technique. In fact the first time I got my bike inspected (CB450K1 as I recall) I rode the bike up onto the pads and did the full stop thing myself. The only example of anyone doing that that I am aware of (passed.) I expect they had enough "instant" crashes on the metal pads to put a quick stop (no pun) to that practice. The next time the guy told me to hold my brakes and pulled on my handlebars...... John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 09:31:28 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:31:19 EDT Subject: Re: VA State MC inspection... To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/10/2003 8:12:17 AM Eastern Daylight Time, adamme1@XXXXXX writes: > I would think that a national standard should be developed to inspect cars. > There is one for commercial trucks already, And that one works does it? John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 10:12:00 2003 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:08:18 -0400 From: "Steven C. Di Pietro" To: Perry Coleman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: VA State MC inspection... X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out006.verizon.net from [141.157.89.140] at Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:11:44 -0500 Perry Coleman wrote: > Actually, this is what differentiates a motorcycle inspection station > from the others in Maryland. Maryland requires the inspector to > road-test the vehicle. So, to qualify for MC inspection status, the > inspector(s) must have the MC endorsement on their license. > > Perry Which is why you don't find many Gas Stations offering Motorcycle Inspections in Md. For me, it's always been a trip to a Dealer. Steven C. Di Pietro Interim National Director The Suzuki Owners Club -USA 16 W. Jeffrey Street Baltimore Md. 21225-1713 http://www.soc-usa.org 1996 Suzuki Katana 600 2001 Suzuki Marauder 800 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 10:33:39 2003 Subject: Laura Roach in the Washington post :) From: Brian Roach To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: Susan Pool Date: 10 Jul 2003 10:33:23 -0400 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/metro/specials/weddings http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/photo (scroll to bottom, click on "Gallery: Here comes the bride", pics 9 - 12) :D - Roach From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 10:37:49 2003 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:34:37 -0400 From: Skip To: Carl Schelin CC: "William J. Huson" , Larry Larson , DC Cycles Subject: Re: VA State MC inspection... Carl Schelin wrote: > > On Wed, 2003-07-09 at 15:23, William J. Huson wrote: > > Skip wrote: > > > > > put it this way... if no one had told you how, would you know how to see if the > > > drums brakes on a bike still have pad left? the inspector usually doesn't want > > > to risk his livlihood on a maybe. > > > > > > --skip > > > > Well, every drum brake I had on bikes had an inspection window. Remove oval bootie, > > peek inside at the lining, replace oval bootie thang. I have no clue if the peeker > > hole worked as advertised - never looked. Squeeze brakes, bike stops, why worry? > > > > My 750 has a small triangle on the drum. The end of the brake bar has a > pointer. As the lining gets worn away, the points get closer. > > v > A====== right. i know that. you know that. prolly everyone on thsi list knows that. I don't think they teach inspectors that. that's all I'm sayin... --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 10:44:34 2003 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'Phil Ross'" , "'DCCycles'" Cc: "'WindingRoads'" Subject: 10 best roads in WVa Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:47:35 -0400 Comments from Maggots who frequent the roads in W(BG)V Dave B: "No 219 or 250. Or like you say, 33. Maybe it was taken from a cagers perspective. I know first hand that there are much, much better roads in West-by-God than some of those." Phil R: > No US250, no US219, no WV74, no WV16? > > [Custer, Carl] Here's my [Alt]50 [Alt]155 Yeah, 250 is must better than 28 IMHO. Missed 66 twixt 28 and 219. It's short but has it's moments. Also Rt 7 between the Ohio and Morgantown is nice but maybe not top 10 material. For the esoteric, the road between Rowlesburg and Terra Alta (if you can find the southern entrance across the tracks) is scenic. I've cc'ed WRMT. Maybe there'll be a "Delightful Dozen" in the future. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 10:56:01 2003 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:35:59 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: VA State MC inspection... At 08:01 AM 7/10/03 -0400, William J. Huson wrote: >adamme1@XXXXXX wrote: > >> I hae to agree that riding the bike around to check the brakes is bs. > >Actually, many inspectors drive your car/truck into the bay. Never happened in the years I lived in Virginia. In Maryland they do test drive the vehicle though. States vary. > NJ never looks at the linings, just makes sure the damn things work. That time. They may or may not work a week later though. Stupid check system. Looking at the lining/pads is the only way to get an idea how much longer the brakes will continue to work. You need to use them to make sure the whole system is working, yes, but if you ignore the wear surfaces that actually do the braking you are missing a critical part of the equation. That was something that always annoyed me about Virginia's system. Every 6 months you had to go through the hassle of getting an inspection done...and all it did was ensure that your basic safety equipment was working for about 2 hours a year. I had a roommate who drove around on bald (as in you could see belt showing in some places) tires all the time...except when he needed the inspection. Then he'd swap tires with a friend, get the inspection, then swap them back. Same with his exhaust system...it leaked badly all the time, but when inspection time came he'd use muffler sealant, a soup can and a couple of hose clamps to seal the leaks. That would last about a week, but it was long enough to pass the "hand over the tail pipe" inspection test. In California I hear they do things differently. The cops have a mobile inspection station on a flatbed truck. They park it somewhere, and pull random cars over and run them through it. If you don't pass, you get towed (at your expense), and can't drive again until you get whatever was wrong fixed. That's enough potential hassle to keep most cars in shape to pass most of the time...just in case. Seems like a better way to go about things to me. -- Mike "tired of seeing cars in MD with lights out" Bartman -- **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 10:56:01 2003 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:55:17 -0400 To: From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Re: VA State MC inspection... At 08:40 AM 7/10/03 -0400, Bob Meyer wrote: > >> >> From: "Bruce N" >> As a matter of fact the inspector is required to pull the >> vehicle into the inspection lane himself. Seems like some sort of ADA violation to have a requirement like that in the law. It limits the job of inspector to those who are just the right size, and have just the right working body parts, to handle driving any car or bike in creation. As someone who is 6'6", I can't drive most vehicles made today. They are way too small for me to get into, let alone operate safely. That goes for bikes as well as cars. I'm looking at a HD, and before I'll be able to ride it safely I'll have to modify the foot controls. The rear brake lever sits over the base of my toes, and to use it I have to slide my foot back, lift it up (painful as hell in the hip joint given the angles), and move forward, then press while hovering...no way my heel can rest on the floorboards. That just isn't a good situation at all. The shifter has a similar, though slightly less severe problem. With cars the problem is much worse...can't reach the foot pedals at all...the dash is always in the way, and the roof is generally so low I have to lean my head to one side to get in. That's why I drive an SUV, and why my next vehicle is likely to be a full-sized pickup, or a restored car from the 50s or 60s...they keep shrinking the damn things every model year to meet the stupid CAFE standards. People with other variations from "normal" (weight, working limbs, eyesight, etc.) would likewise be excluded from being inspectors, because they wouldn't be able to drive every vehicle that showed up for various reasons. There's also the problem of cars with special adaptations. I have a friend who has no arms...his car would be a real trick to drive without special training! The steering is a wheel operated with the left foot...what are the chances that an inspector is going to master that quickly enough to get into the bay without hitting something? Letting the customer drive their own vehicle is best, and was the way it was always done back when I lived in Virginia a couple of decades ago. It not only shows that the vehicle has some level of functionality, it also keeps inspectors from being injured by those that don't, lowers their liability and chances of harming a customer vehicle, reduces the ADA problems, keeps customers happier, and speeds the whole process up. What is gained by showing that the inspector can operate the vehicle? It's the customer who has to drive/ride it. -- Mike "governments may be the stupidest forms of life in the universe" Bartman -- **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 10:56:15 2003 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:41:34 -0400 To: , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Re: VA State MC inspection... At 08:12 AM 7/10/03 -0400, adamme1@XXXXXX wrote: >Since motor vehicles are, by nature, "mobile", I would think that a national standard should be developed to inspect cars. There is one for commercial trucks already, I don't see what the big deal is to institute a standard safety inspection for cars. There is one, sort of. Every state has some variation on a law that says that all vehicles must be operated with all safety and other equipment in operating order. Lights are the usual target, but horns, mufflers, tires, etc. are covered too. Any cop can pull over and ticket any vehicle that is operating with "improper equipment". Doesn't matter if you have a safety inspection sticker or not...if the cop can see that you have a light out, bald tires or whatever, he can write you up for it. They just don't seem to enforce that one very much. Probably because speeding tickets are more profitable. Most judges seem to let the improper equipment cases go for court costs if the defendant proves that the situation has been corrected. -- Mike **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 11:55:28 2003 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:56:19 -0500 From: "George Cole" To: Subject: Supporting bike for rear spring change? Hey everyone, I need to change the spring on my FZR400 race bike, what is the best way to support the bike when doing this? Front and rear stands? When I added jack-up plates to my R6 a few years back I ended up dropping it. I could just gently lay bike on it's side to do this w/o too much drama? Thanks, George From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 11:59:17 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: "'George Cole'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Supporting bike for rear spring change? Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:59:45 -0400 String it up to the beams (or a hook in the beams) in the garage with a ratchet tiedown attached to the rear sub frame. Mike 96 VFR 88 Hawk 76 CB400F > -----Original Message----- > From: George Cole [SMTP:George.Cole@XXXXXX] > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 11:56 AM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Supporting bike for rear spring change? > > Hey everyone, > > I need to change the spring on my FZR400 race bike, what is the best way > to support the bike when doing this? Front and rear stands? > > When I added jack-up plates to my R6 a few years back I ended up dropping > it. > > I could just gently lay bike on it's side to do this w/o too much drama? > > Thanks, > > George > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 12:17:29 2003 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:17:17 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: roach@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Laura Roach in the Washington post :) Awwwwwwwwwww........ain't they a cute couple? That's so sweat, I think I'm getting cavities. ;-) Scooter In a message dated 7/10/2003 9:33:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, roach@XXXXXX writes: > > > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/metro/specials/weddings > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/photo (scroll to > bottom, click on > "Gallery: Here comes the bride", pics 9 - 12) > > :D > > - Roach From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 12:24:30 2003 Subject: RE: Supporting bike for rear spring change? Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:24:00 -0500 From: To: , Thanks, that sounds workable I guess I need to visit the hardware store to find some sort of hook George >>> Michael Lynch 07/10/03 11:59AM >>> String it up to the beams (or a hook in the beams) in the garage with a ratchet tiedown attached to the rear sub frame. Mike 96 VFR 88 Hawk 76 CB400F > -----Original Message----- > From: George Cole [SMTP:George.Cole@XXXXXX] > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 11:56 AM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Supporting bike for rear spring change? > > Hey everyone, > > I need to change the spring on my FZR400 race bike, what is the best way > to support the bike when doing this? Front and rear stands? > > When I added jack-up plates to my R6 a few years back I ended up dropping > it. > > I could just gently lay bike on it's side to do this w/o too much drama? > > Thanks, > > George > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 12:59:13 2003 From: "Charlie Ozark" To: jarvis22201@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Custom seat work; DC inspection Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:47:39 -0400 >Also, he's scheduled to take the DC DMV riding test >(in September! - first opening they had). > >What does this involve? (I assume U-turn. Braking. >Anything else?) > i thought i had posted my experience about my DC road test in April, but i must have forgotten. basically, it went like this: show up - be sure to have your learner's permit and proof of insurance (i rode my own bike there despite their vague statement of requireing a licensed "driver"). check in. wait in chaotic parking lot for 2 hours watching ambulances come, cars get towed, and people argue with self-righteous DMV staffers in and out of the offices. the "hardest" part involved riding from the parking lot to a ridiculously busy public road a half block away to take the test on. like other posts said, heed the traffic signs. after waiting 5 minutes for traffic to clear and cagers attempting to park on the narrow street, it began: he says: when there's a break in the traffic, ride down the block and swerve, then come back and stop. i says: whaaaaa? he says: swerve back and forth. i says: in my lane? at what speed? how far? he says: pretend there are cones i says: how far apart? he says as road clears: just go now, i'll keep traffic stopped at this end. so i did. and apparently scored a 100% to boot. that said, i'd practice your figure 8s and u turns just in case. _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 13:10:10 2003 From: To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Laura Roach in the Washington post :) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:10:03 -0400 > > From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX > Date: 2003/07/10 Thu PM 12:17:17 EDT > To: roach@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Laura Roach in the Washington post :) > > Awwwwwwwwwww........ain't they a cute couple? That's so sweat, I think I'm getting cavities. ;-) > > Scooter > mmm.....sweet sweet sweat. 8-P From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 13:26:35 2003 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:38:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: VA State MC inspection... On Thu, 10 Jul 2003, Steven C. Di Pietro wrote: > Perry Coleman wrote: > > > Actually, this is what differentiates a motorcycle inspection station > > from the others in Maryland. Maryland requires the inspector to > > road-test the vehicle. So, to qualify for MC inspection status, the > > inspector(s) must have the MC endorsement on their license. > > > > Perry > > Which is why you don't find many Gas Stations offering Motorcycle > Inspections in Md. For me, it's always been a trip to a Dealer. I use Montgomery Village Auto Clinic in Gaithersburg, MD. It's owned by a family friend and staffed by several MC riders. I think Rob on this list had a car serviced there on my recommendation. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 13:33:24 2003 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:45:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Re: VA State MC inspection... On Thu, 10 Jul 2003, Mike Bartman wrote: > As someone who is 6'6", I can't drive most vehicles made today. They are You wouldn't happen to have a brother named George, do you? :-) > get in. That's why I drive an SUV, and why my next vehicle is likely to be > a full-sized pickup, or a restored car from the 50s or 60s...they keep > shrinking the damn things every model year to meet the stupid CAFE standards. There's a guy in my car group that's a little over 7' tall. He drives a drop top 4th-gen Z28. He fits in it and races it... he just modified the seat rails to allow the seat to move back farther. If I wasn't such a short-shit, I'd be in there with a smoke wrench modifying the car I wanted to fit me :-) -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 13:40:14 2003 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:36:55 -0400 To: , , From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: Supporting bike for rear spring change? At 11:24 AM 7/10/03 -0500, George.Cole@XXXXXX wrote: >Thanks, that sounds workable > >I guess I need to visit the hardware store to find some sort of hook > >George > >>>> Michael Lynch 07/10/03 11:59AM >>> >String it up to the beams (or a hook in the beams) in the garage with a >ratchet tiedown attached to the rear sub frame. > >Mike >96 VFR >88 Hawk >76 CB400F Given the weight of a bike, it's likely to be hard to find a hook that screws into the beams that will hold the weight (assuming typical 2x4 "beams" in a garage. If you've got a 12x12, drill a hole and stick a 1" threaded rod through it! :^). Even throwing a line, chain or strap over a beam would make me nervous...the beams aren't designed for side loads like that, and you might crack or break one. They are strong in compression, not in deflection. If you are talking about steel beams in a commercial garage or something, never mind! :^) -- Mike **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 13:43:47 2003 From: "Perry Coleman" To: wayne@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: VA State MC inspection... Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:43:38 -0400 That's where I go, as well. Good people. Perry >From: Wayne Edelen >To: >Subject: Re: VA State MC inspection... >Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:38:17 -0400 (EDT) > >On Thu, 10 Jul 2003, Steven C. Di Pietro wrote: > > > Perry Coleman wrote: > > > > > Actually, this is what differentiates a motorcycle inspection station > > > from the others in Maryland. Maryland requires the inspector to > > > road-test the vehicle. So, to qualify for MC inspection status, the > > > inspector(s) must have the MC endorsement on their license. > > > > > > Perry > > > > Which is why you don't find many Gas Stations offering Motorcycle > > Inspections in Md. For me, it's always been a trip to a Dealer. > >I use Montgomery Village Auto Clinic in Gaithersburg, MD. It's owned by a >family friend and staffed by several MC riders. I think Rob on this list >had a car serviced there on my recommendation. > >-- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ > _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 13:47:58 2003 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:59:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Supporting bike for rear spring change? On Thu, 10 Jul 2003, George Cole wrote: > Hey everyone, > > I need to change the spring on my FZR400 race bike, what is the best way to support the bike when doing this? Front and rear stands? When I am working on the rear of my 'Busa, I sometimes use my engine hoist to support it. If you have a pickup, you're welcome to borrow it... but it's pretty big/heavy :-) -- Wayne - http://www.purplecar.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 13:54:47 2003 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:55:18 -0400 To: Wayne Edelen , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Re: VA State MC inspection... At 01:45 PM 7/10/03 -0400, Wayne Edelen wrote: >On Thu, 10 Jul 2003, Mike Bartman wrote: > >> As someone who is 6'6", I can't drive most vehicles made today. They are > >You wouldn't happen to have a brother named George, do you? :-) Not that I know of. :^) >> get in. That's why I drive an SUV, and why my next vehicle is likely to be >> a full-sized pickup, or a restored car from the 50s or 60s...they keep >> shrinking the damn things every model year to meet the stupid CAFE standards. > >There's a guy in my car group that's a little over 7' tall. He drives a >drop top 4th-gen Z28. He fits in it and races it... he just modified the >seat rails to allow the seat to move back farther. That makes it really hard to reach the steering wheel... I drive a Jeep Grand Cherokee...and the seat has to be all the way back and leaning to get me 1/2" of headroom. I used to drive a '67 VW Bug when I was younger...most headroom of anything I've ever had with more than 2 wheels...almost 4". Those cathedral ceilings... I used to have a '92 Nissan Pathfinder, but they've widened the center console an inch or so and taken out my right shin room, so I can't drive the new ones. I looked at Monteros, but while they have plenty of head room they stupidly decided to have the speakers drop straight down out of the lower dash, so my shins have nowhere to be, and they got crossed off the list too. I rented an 18' Ryder truck once...almost couldn't fit in the damn thing at all! I was looking ahead through the blue tint at the top of the windshield, and I could only get onto the brake with the side of my right foot...there wasn't room enough to get my leg straight enough to push on it flat footed. You'd think on a good sized truck like that they'd assume that the driver might be large enough to load it, and give him some room! I had hoped that HD made big bikes...but apparently they've stopped or never did, and what appeared to be big bikes in the past were actually just little riders on medium sized bikes. If I can figure out how to modify a Heritage Softail Classic so that I can ride it safely, I'm going to get one, but only to ride while I learn enough to build my own bike from scratch (with help from appropriate vendors of parts of course). My design will fit me properly, but it's going to be longer than usual...especially in the under-engine frame tubes. Stretching the top and downtubes are good, but not sufficient for my leg comfort. I wish that the car and bike makers (and especially the FAA and airlines!) would take a look around at the kids of today and quit using the pre-WWII "average height-weight" tables. The average American male today is NOT 5.7" and 175 lbs! They are going to start losing market as the grandparents die off and the kids find that they can't fit into what's being offered to them. >If I wasn't such a short-shit, I'd be in there with a smoke wrench >modifying the car I wanted to fit me :-) They'll be making that illegal Real Soon Now. To make any mods you'll have to be a licensed manufacturer and run through all the crash tests before you can take it on the street. The helmet and seatbelt laws are just the start... -- Mike **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 13:59:13 2003 Subject: RE: Supporting bike for rear spring change? Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:59:00 -0500 From: To: , , I bought hooks rated to 300 lbs, and since a lot of the weight is still on the front wheel I think I will be ok. George >>> Mike Bartman 07/10/03 01:36PM >>> Given the weight of a bike, it's likely to be hard to find a hook that screws into the beams that will hold the weight (assuming typical 2x4 "beams" in a garage. If you've got a 12x12, drill a hole and stick a 1" threaded rod through it! :^). Even throwing a line, chain or strap over a beam would make me nervous...the beams aren't designed for side loads like that, and you might crack or break one. They are strong in compression, not in deflection. If you are talking about steel beams in a commercial garage or something, never mind! :^) -- Mike ************************************************************************ **** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *----------------------------------------------------------------------- ---* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * ************************************************************************ **** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 13:59:31 2003 From: "Rob Keiser" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: VA State MC inspection... Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:47:48 -0400 That's, right... I had my Acura CL-S Inspected there before I sold it. They were great to deal with and I believe they said they'd inspect a bike, too. (Thanks again, Wayne!) Also close by to there is CAD Cycles. I know Dave and Ryan do a lot of bike inspections there, and I'd certainly trust either of them to ride mine if needed. Rob '98 VFR800 From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: VA State MC inspection... Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:38:17 -0400 (EDT) On Thu, 10 Jul 2003, Steven C. Di Pietro wrote: > Perry Coleman wrote: > > > Actually, this is what differentiates a motorcycle inspection station > > from the others in Maryland. Maryland requires the inspector to > > road-test the vehicle. So, to qualify for MC inspection status, the > > inspector(s) must have the MC endorsement on their license. > > > > Perry > > Which is why you don't find many Gas Stations offering Motorcycle > Inspections in Md. For me, it's always been a trip to a Dealer. I use Montgomery Village Auto Clinic in Gaithersburg, MD. It's owned by a family friend and staffed by several MC riders. I think Rob on this list had a car serviced there on my recommendation. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 14:35:02 2003 Subject: Re: Supporting bike for rear spring change? Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:35:00 -0500 From: To: , Thanks Wayne, I think I will be ok with the rafters. My little FZR is pretty light and really does not matter if it falls over. George >>> Wayne Edelen 07/10/03 01:59PM >>> When I am working on the rear of my 'Busa, I sometimes use my engine hoist to support it. If you have a pickup, you're welcome to borrow it... but it's pretty big/heavy :-) -- Wayne - http://www.purplecar.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 15:37:51 2003 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:37:27 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: adamme1@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Laura Roach in the Washington post :) Pardon the typo. You know what I mean. :-) Scooter In a message dated 7/10/2003 12:10:03 PM Eastern Standard Time, adamme1@XXXXXX writes: > > > > > > From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX > > Date: 2003/07/10 Thu PM 12:17:17 EDT > > To: roach@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > Subject: Re: Laura Roach in the Washington post :) > > > > Awwwwwwwwwww........ain't they a cute couple? That's so > sweat, I think I'm getting cavities. ;-) > > > > Scooter > > > > > mmm.....sweet sweet sweat. 8-P From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 15:45:56 2003 Subject: RE: Supporting bike for rear spring change? From: Brian Roach To: George.Cole@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 10 Jul 2003 15:45:48 -0400 On Thu, 2003-07-10 at 13:59, George.Cole@XXXXXX wrote: > I bought hooks rated to 300 lbs, and since a lot of the weight is still > on the > front wheel I think I will be ok. > > George George ... You don't need anything but a jack from your car :) (And something to hold the bike upright if you don't have a rear stand ... the kickstand might work, but personally I like having the bike straight up and down) 1) Place the jack on top of the rear wheel 2) Jack up the subframe until the shock is extended and spring has no load on it. 3) remove shock 4) change spring, reverse process. - Roach From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 15:57:25 2003 Subject: RE: Supporting bike for rear spring change? Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:58:00 -0500 From: To: Cc: Thanks Roach, That is the best solution yet. George >>> Brian Roach 07/10/03 03:45PM >>> George ... You don't need anything but a jack from your car :) (And something to hold the bike upright if you don't have a rear stand ... the kickstand might work, but personally I like having the bike straight up and down) 1) Place the jack on top of the rear wheel 2) Jack up the subframe until the shock is extended and spring has no load on it. 3) remove shock 4) change spring, reverse process. - Roach From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 16:20:56 2003 From: To: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Laura Roach in the Washington post :) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 16:20:49 -0400 hee hee...sorry, just couldn't help myself. ;-) > > From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX > Date: 2003/07/10 Thu PM 03:37:27 EDT > To: adamme1@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Laura Roach in the Washington post :) > > Pardon the typo. You know what I mean. :-) > > Scooter > > In a message dated 7/10/2003 12:10:03 PM Eastern Standard Time, adamme1@XXXXXX writes: > > > > > > > > > > > From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX > > > Date: 2003/07/10 Thu PM 12:17:17 EDT > > > To: roach@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > > Subject: Re: Laura Roach in the Washington post :) > > > > > > Awwwwwwwwwww........ain't they a cute couple? That's so > > sweat, I think I'm getting cavities. ;-) > > > > > > Scooter > > > > > > > > > mmm.....sweet sweet sweat. 8-P > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 17:50:09 2003 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:48:55 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: George.Cole@XXXXXX CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, MLynch@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Supporting bike for rear spring change? George.Cole@XXXXXX wrote: > Thanks, that sounds workable > > I guess I need to visit the hardware store to find some sort of hook > > George Yeah, and if the garage roof truss is marginal... *clika -clika -clika* goes the rachet strap... *creeaaAAAKKK* Step Two: Dig bike out from under the rubble. Bill - with beefed up beam in carport that has handled `Murican V-8 engines. > > >>> Michael Lynch 07/10/03 11:59AM >>> > String it up to the beams (or a hook in the beams) in the garage with a > ratchet tiedown attached to the rear sub frame. > > Mike > 96 VFR > 88 Hawk > 76 CB400F > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: George Cole [SMTP:George.Cole@XXXXXX] > > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 11:56 AM > > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > Subject: Supporting bike for rear spring change? > > > > Hey everyone, > > > > I need to change the spring on my FZR400 race bike, what is the best > way > > to support the bike when doing this? Front and rear stands? > > > > When I added jack-up plates to my R6 a few years back I ended up > dropping > > it. > > > > I could just gently lay bike on it's side to do this w/o too much > drama? > > > > Thanks, > > > > George > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 17:56:15 2003 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:55:09 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX CC: adamme1@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Laura Roach in the Washington post :) ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: > Pardon the typo. You know what I mean. :-) > > Scooter Yeah, you lech! You were SWEATING! And panting - probably :-) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 18:19:52 2003 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:21:50 -0400 Subject: For sale:Bike-Atv lift--NEW (Supporting bike for rear spring change?) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "garcia oliver" New 1500 lb-capacity lift. Arrived this week, used once. Selling because it seems no more useful---though considerably more stable---than my floor jack, and takes up more space, which I don't have. This is a Harbor Freight item, so the price varies with the catalog-of-the-month. I've seen them between $99.99 and $139.99 (plus $5.95 s/h). Mine is for sale for $90---assembled and ready to use. Pick up in DC, near the zoo. Nice features: (1) foot operated pump and release levers---hands free. (2) manual anti-roll device, so that it doesn't skid when you don't want (3) 1500 lb-capacity (some are 1100-1200) (4) four lockable work heights (5) waist-high handle for maneuvering it And people seem to like them (do google search). Feel free to ask further questions. --garcia 202-234-9229 11 a.m. --- 11 p.m. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 19:28:20 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: , Cc: Subject: RE: Supporting bike for rear spring change? Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:28:57 -0500 If you have a center stand it's even easier. I just put my bike up on the center stand and a bottle jack under the swing arm. rob On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:58:00 -0500, George.Cole wrote > Thanks Roach, > > That is the best solution yet. > > George > > >>> Brian Roach 07/10/03 03:45PM >>> > George ... > > You don't need anything but a jack from your car :) (And something to > hold the bike upright if you don't have a rear stand ... the > kickstand might work, but personally I like having the bike straight > up and down) > > 1) Place the jack on top of the rear wheel > 2) Jack up the subframe until the shock is extended and spring has no > load on it. > 3) remove shock > 4) change spring, reverse process. > > - Roach -- Rob Sharp CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 20:12:23 2003 From: "Michael Jordan" To: Subject: (almost) New Bike Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:12:11 -0400 Just picked up a slightly used yellow '03 DL1000 (I REFUSE to say or type the silly name) from Champion Motorsports in Herndon. I say almost 'cause it had a mere 410 miles on it. Previous owner had legs shorter than mine - didn't think that was possible. Not enough miles to warrant an immediate first oil change, but enough to keep me from making a long ride this weekend. It may get a slightly premature first service... Very nice bike - rode one briefly last summer and liked it. I really wanted a BMW R1150GS, but there's something about a $7K delta that was persuasive. I wanted a bike that would go down the road nicely and not get upset should the pavement turn to something a bit looser - and maybe the occasional fire road... Wanted a twin, too. First tests indicate that it will do nicely (did a short run and while looking for the pavement/gravel demarcation line in the gloom, I realized that I had been on the gravel for about 50 yards - the bike was quite composed. Michael J. '86 SRX-6 "Thumpa" '93 GSX 1100G "Zoomer" '94 Seca II - no name - for sale - free kitten with each purchase - free kitten without a purchase, for that matter. '03 DL1000 "Thurmond" From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 20:23:47 2003 From: "Michael Jordan" To: Subject: Product Report - MotoFizz Camping Seat Bag Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:23:37 -0400 Great product. Bought one for this year's trip due to tiny BMW saddlebags. This is one beautifully engineered piece of motorcycle goodie. It opens from the top with a cavernous opening and also opens on each end if you just want something packed at the sides. The ends also expand about 2" to increase storage. LOTS of features. Internal adjustable straps to help the bag keep its shape, additional straps on the end panels to support them when the end flaps are opened. Elastic webbing on the top to stuff a sweater or whatever under quickly. A handful of "D" loops scattered around to lash stuff to. 4 straps with loops and plastic snap buckles to hold the bag on the bike and two short straps with female buckles on each end to snap the mounting straps to in an "X" pattern when the bag is off the bike to keep them (the mounting straps) from flapping around. A water bottle holder on the outside within easy reach of the rider. One end pouch is detachable to wear as a waist pack. Straps with snap swivels for both the main bag and the waist bag. And a rain cover. It be a bit large, and the instructions are in Japanese (great photos, though - REALLY worth a thousand words), but it easily held two weeks worth of stuff with room for acquired goodies and souveniers without having to unzip the expando gussets. Available from the Aerostitch folks. Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 21:00:38 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 21:00:28 EDT Subject: Re: Supporting bike for rear spring change? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/10/2003 1:40:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, omni@XXXXXX writes: > Even throwing a line, chain or strap over a > beam would make me nervous. Run a 4*4 _across_ about 4 beams, throw a chain around the 4*4 and hoist. The 4*4 spreads the load over the 4 beams. I used a set up like that one to hoist Goldwings in one of the shops I worked at. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 21:04:44 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 21:04:33 EDT Subject: Re: Supporting bike for rear spring change? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/10/2003 1:59:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, George.Cole@XXXXXX writes: > since a lot of the weight is still > on the > front wheel I think I will be ok. Be _SURE_ to hook the straps up _high_ on the bike. If you hang the bike by a point below the center of gravity it _will_ pitch over. (And when you take the wheel forks off the CG will move up.) Do not ask.... John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 21:42:27 2003 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:42:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Larry Larson Subject: Re: (almost) New Bike To: Michael Jordan , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Michael Jordan wrote: > Just picked up a slightly used yellow '03 DL1000 (I > REFUSE to say or type > the silly name) from Champion Motorsports in Herndon. > > I say almost 'cause it had a mere 410 miles on it. > Previous owner had legs > shorter than mine - didn't think that was possible. Not > enough miles to > warrant an immediate first oil change, I always do one at 300 miles. 8;) > '03 DL1000 "Thurmond" An allusion is not much better than just coming out with it. However, in this case, it's much, much worse, since we just got rid of the worthless scum bastard, and hardly need to be reminded of his existence. Besides, I hear Kawi's coming out with a new, similar design next month called the "Lester". -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 10 22:01:45 2003 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 21:01:47 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Sean Jordan Subject: Re: (almost) New Bike >Michael J. >'03 DL1000 "Thurmond" Ugh.......that's not very *punny* at all..... Sean Jordan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 11 08:28:03 2003 Subject: RE: Supporting bike for rear spring change? Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:26:00 -0500 From: To: , Cc: Roach's, suggestion worked out great, and allows you to adjust the jack to put zero load on the shock so it unbolts easily. The tricky part was getting the spring off the fox shock, took a bit of cursing and head-scratching to figure that out. I needed use a vise to compress the spring enough to remove the retainer on the shock. George >>> Rob Sharp 07/10/03 07:28PM >>> If you have a center stand it's even easier. I just put my bike up on the center stand and a bottle jack under the swing arm. rob Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 11 08:49:49 2003 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 05:49:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Aaron Subject: Bikes for big guys (was re:VA State MC Inspection) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: omni@XXXXXX You oughtta try a BMW R1150GS Adventure before shelling out the $$$ for a custom . . . the huge GS has to be the best bike on the market for a big guy. ======================= Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:55:18 -0400 To: Wayne Edelen , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Re: VA State MC inspection... At 01:45 PM 7/10/03 -0400, Wayne Edelen wrote: >On Thu, 10 Jul 2003, Mike Bartman wrote: > >> As someone who is 6'6", I can't drive most vehicles made today. They are > >You wouldn't happen to have a brother named George, do you? :-) Not that I know of. :^) >> get in. That's why I drive an SUV, and why my next vehicle is likely to be >> a full-sized pickup, or a restored car from the 50s or 60s...they keep >> shrinking the damn things every model year to meet the stupid CAFE standards. > >There's a guy in my car group that's a little over 7' tall. He drives a >drop top 4th-gen Z28. He fits in it and races it... he just modified the >seat rails to allow the seat to move back farther. That makes it really hard to reach the steering wheel... I drive a Jeep Grand Cherokee...and the seat has to be all the way back and leaning to get me 1/2" of headroom. I used to drive a '67 VW Bug when I was younger...most headroom of anything I've ever had with more than 2 wheels...almost 4". Those cathedral ceilings... I used to have a '92 Nissan Pathfinder, but they've widened the center console an inch or so and taken out my right shin room, so I can't drive the new ones. I looked at Monteros, but while they have plenty of head room they stupidly decided to have the speakers drop straight down out of the lower dash, so my shins have nowhere to be, and they got crossed off the list too. I rented an 18' Ryder truck once...almost couldn't fit in the damn thing at all! I was looking ahead through the blue tint at the top of the windshield, and I could only get onto the brake with the side of my right foot...there wasn't room enough to get my leg straight enough to push on it flat footed. You'd think on a good sized truck like that they'd assume that the driver might be large enough to load it, and give him some room! I had hoped that HD made big bikes...but apparently they've stopped or never did, and what appeared to be big bikes in the past were actually just little riders on medium sized bikes. If I can figure out how to modify a Heritage Softail Classic so that I can ride it safely, I'm going to get one, but only to ride while I learn enough to build my own bike from scratch (with help from appropriate vendors of parts of course). My design will fit me properly, but it's going to be longer than usual...especially in the under-engine frame tubes. Stretching the top and downtubes are good, but not sufficient for my leg comfort. I wish that the car and bike makers (and especially the FAA and airlines!) would take a look around at the kids of today and quit using the pre-WWII "average height-weight" tables. The average American male today is NOT 5.7" and 175 lbs! They are going to start losing market as the grandparents die off and the kids find that they can't fit into what's being offered to them. >If I wasn't such a short-shit, I'd be in there with a smoke wrench >modifying the car I wanted to fit me :-) They'll be making that illegal Real Soon Now. To make any mods you'll have to be a licensed manufacturer and run through all the crash tests before you can take it on the street. The helmet and seatbelt laws are just the start... -- Mike **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 11 10:12:04 2003 Subject: RE: Supporting bike for rear spring change? From: Brian Roach To: George.Cole@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 11 Jul 2003 10:11:54 -0400 On Fri, 2003-07-11 at 08:26, George.Cole@XXXXXX wrote: > Roach's, suggestion worked out great, and allows you to adjust the jack > to put > zero load on the shock so it unbolts easily. I forgot to mention that part, but I figured you'd get the gist of it once you had the jack in there :) > The tricky part was getting the spring off the fox shock, took a bit of > cursing and head-scratching to figure that out. I needed use a vise to > compress the spring enough to remove the retainer on the shock. Yeah, it's a whole lot easier if you have nifty spring press racetech sells .... but as you found out, a vise works in a pinch. - Roach From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 11 11:05:40 2003 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:05:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Leon Begeman Subject: Re: (almost) New Bike To: Michael Jordan , DCCycles It's your bike, name it anything you want. If it's anything like it's namesake, it'll last a really long time and do some amazing things long after most of it's peers are dead. Leon. --- Michael Jordan wrote: > '03 DL1000 "Thurmond" > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 11 11:36:21 2003 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:32:14 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Bikes for big guys (was re:VA State MC Inspection) I did check that one out (I *think* that's the one I was looking at anyway...huge BMW, horizontally opposed engine, front and rear swing arms, shaft drive, integrated fairing?), and it is pretty close. Slight problem with the rear brake though...a 10 degree change in the angle would fix it though. Cost is about the same as building your own bike though...if you don't get too wild on the custom. There are kits that start around $10,500. If you get those same parts individually, and have a frame made custom, it should still come out no higher than the $17K I was quoted for the BMW. I'm not planning to pay anyone for putting it together...though painting would likely be sent out, ditto for chrome. There doesn't seem to be anything involved in building a bike that I'm not capable of, or couldn't learn. There are a few tools that would be handy that I don't have at the moment, but that's correctable (bearing driver, fork seal tool, etc.) Besides, at least half the attraction in building a bike is building a bike, not just riding it afterward. :^) -- Mike "I like learning new things" Bartman -- At 05:49 AM 7/11/03 -0700, Aaron wrote: >You oughtta try a BMW R1150GS Adventure before >shelling out the $$$ for a custom . . . the huge GS >has to be the best bike on the market for a big guy. > > > > >======================= >Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:55:18 -0400 >To: Wayne Edelen , > >From: Mike Bartman >Subject: Re: Re: VA State MC inspection... > >At 01:45 PM 7/10/03 -0400, Wayne Edelen wrote: >>On Thu, 10 Jul 2003, Mike Bartman wrote: >> >>> As someone who is 6'6", I can't drive most vehicles >made today. >They are >> >>You wouldn't happen to have a brother named George, >do you? :-) > >Not that I know of. :^) > >>> get in. That's why I drive an SUV, and why my next >vehicle is >likely to be >>> a full-sized pickup, or a restored car from the 50s >or 60s...they >keep >>> shrinking the damn things every model year to meet >the stupid CAFE >standards. >> >>There's a guy in my car group that's a little over 7' >tall. He drives >a >>drop top 4th-gen Z28. He fits in it and races it... >he just modified >the >>seat rails to allow the seat to move back farther. > >That makes it really hard to reach the steering >wheel... > >I drive a Jeep Grand Cherokee...and the seat has to be >all the way back >and >leaning to get me 1/2" of headroom. I used to drive a >'67 VW Bug when >I >was younger...most headroom of anything I've ever had >with more than 2 >wheels...almost 4". Those cathedral ceilings... > >I used to have a '92 Nissan Pathfinder, but they've >widened the center >console an inch or so and taken out my right shin >room, so I can't >drive >the new ones. I looked at Monteros, but while they >have plenty of head >room they stupidly decided to have the speakers drop >straight down out >of >the lower dash, so my shins have nowhere to be, and >they got crossed >off >the list too. > >I rented an 18' Ryder truck once...almost couldn't fit >in the damn >thing at >all! I was looking ahead through the blue tint at the >top of the >windshield, and I could only get onto the brake with >the side of my >right >foot...there wasn't room enough to get my leg straight >enough to push >on it >flat footed. You'd think on a good sized truck like >that they'd assume >that the driver might be large enough to load it, and >give him some >room! > >I had hoped that HD made big bikes...but apparently >they've stopped or >never did, and what appeared to be big bikes in the >past were actually >just >little riders on medium sized bikes. If I can figure >out how to modify >a >Heritage Softail Classic so that I can ride it safely, >I'm going to get >one, but only to ride while I learn enough to build my >own bike from >scratch (with help from appropriate vendors of parts >of course). My >design >will fit me properly, but it's going to be longer than > >usual...especially >in the under-engine frame tubes. Stretching the top >and downtubes are >good, but not sufficient for my leg comfort. > >I wish that the car and bike makers (and especially >the FAA and >airlines!) >would take a look around at the kids of today and quit >using the >pre-WWII >"average height-weight" tables. The average American >male today is NOT >5.7" and 175 lbs! They are going to start losing >market as the >grandparents die off and the kids find that they can't >fit into what's >being offered to them. > >>If I wasn't such a short-shit, I'd be in there with a >smoke wrench >>modifying the car I wanted to fit me :-) > >They'll be making that illegal Real Soon Now. To make >any mods you'll >have >to be a licensed manufacturer and run through all the >crash tests >before >you can take it on the street. The helmet and >seatbelt laws are just >the >start... > >-- Mike > >**************************************************************************** >* Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered >Obfuscation >Obliterated * >* Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled >Opinions Offered >* >* omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined >Smiles Stimulated >* >*--------------------------------------------------------------------------* >* "We do it all! No job too small! No >price too high! >* >**************************************************************************** > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! >http://sbc.yahoo.com > **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 11 12:17:32 2003 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:17:26 -0500 To: Thomas , mike@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Sean Jordan Subject: Not motorcycle related, but.... This could be fun.... http://www.atimotorsports.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=76 Sean Jordan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 11 12:26:53 2003 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:26:49 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Not motorcycle related, but.... To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX SJ showed us: >http://www.atimotorsports.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=76 [Dave] 1: $70k + the donor focus. 2: Roll bar? 3: The SF Connectors don't look up to handling the 400+ foot pounds of torque 4: For that price, you can have 1 Eye-abuser for every day of the week ;-) Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 11 12:33:10 2003 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:44:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Not motorcycle related, but.... On Fri, 11 Jul 2003, Dave Yates wrote: > SJ showed us: > >http://www.atimotorsports.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=76 > > [Dave] > 1: $70k + the donor focus. > 2: Roll bar? > 3: The SF Connectors don't look up to handling the 400+ foot > pounds of torque > 4: For that price, you can have 1 Eye-abuser for every day > of the week ;-) Damn you, Dave :-) For that price, you can buy a Viper SRT-10 and have a car that weighs probably 300lbs more than a V8/blown Focus and is actually worth the ~$85,000-$90,000 price. FWIW, a Focus weighs around 2700lbs... definately not a lightweight. Nothing like the ~3700lbs of a Cobra, but c'mon it's still no featherweight. I'm gonna have to use the Chewbacca Defense on this one. :-) -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 11 12:45:21 2003 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:56:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Some pics Here are some pics of my latest Eyeabuser, damn it, Hayabusa mods. The bike is running great with the map I got from one of the 'Busa tuners from TX, but I think I'll be getting some dyno time in soon to check the A/F on a wideband. http://www.blueblackbusa.org/071103/ -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 11 13:02:10 2003 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:02:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Subject: Re: Not motorcycle related, but.... To: Sean Jordan , Thomas , mike@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX How about a Mustang V8 in a Mazda Miata? http://www.supercars.net/garages/Moonracer/6v2.html http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/2866/faq.html http://www.v8miata.com/ Chris Weaver --- Sean Jordan wrote: > This could be fun.... > > http://www.atimotorsports.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=76 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 11 13:02:29 2003 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:02:23 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Not motorcycle related, but.... To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Wayne contributed: >For that price, you can buy a Viper SRT-10 and have a car >that ...is actually worth the ~$85,000-$90,000 price. FWIW, >a Focus weighs around 2700lbs... definately [Dave] Vipers. Those are the cages that look really cool getting smaller in my rear view mirrors ;-) perhaps they'd have done better with a Miata, or Mini Cooper. ;-) >not a lightweight. Nothing like the ~3700lbs of a Cobra, >but c'mon it's still no featherweight. > >I'm gonna have to use the Chewbacca Defense on this one. [Dave] well, it would suck to have your (cage's) a$$ handed to you by a Focus... Dave to unknown Fbody guy on Rt1: "it must suck to have your a$$ handed to you by a 5,000 pound truck with a riding mower in the back..." I should've said "wow, that's a darn fast v6 !" Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 11 13:07:24 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: Sean Jordan , Thomas , mike@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Not motorcycle related, but.... Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:07:18 -0400 LOL! Fun indeed, but $69,000 + a Focus? I can think of a lot of cars I'd rather have for $79,000 or so. The best reason I can think of to own this would be to embarras Porsche owners at traffic lights. > > From: Sean Jordan > Date: 2003/07/11 Fri PM 12:17:26 EDT > To: Thomas , mike@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Not motorcycle related, but.... > > This could be fun.... > > http://www.atimotorsports.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=76 > > Sean Jordan > > Bob Meyer '92 Standard STOC # 1157 If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 11 13:09:58 2003 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:21:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Not motorcycle related, but.... On Fri, 11 Jul 2003, Dave Yates wrote: > Wayne contributed: > > >For that price, you can buy a Viper SRT-10 and have a car > >that ...is actually worth the ~$85,000-$90,000 price. FWIW, > >a Focus weighs around 2700lbs... definately > > [Dave] Vipers. Those are the cages that look really cool > getting smaller in my rear view mirrors ;-) perhaps they'd > have done better with a Miata, or Mini Cooper. ;-) Yep, I was thinking monster Miata :-) You could do the conversion and still have $75,000 or so left over for a Z06, a turbo Hayabusa, life insurance and a good bottle of tequila. ;-) > >I'm gonna have to use the Chewbacca Defense on this one. > > [Dave] well, it would suck to have your (cage's) a$$ handed > to you by a Focus... > Dave to unknown Fbody guy on Rt1: > "it must suck to have your a$$ handed to you by a 5,000 pound > truck with a riding mower in the back..." > > I should've said "wow, that's a darn fast v6 !" You, as much as anyone, should know that speed is usually a function of money spent. I'm sure if you dumped enough money into that barndoor, er, truck it can be pretty quick. ;-) -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 11 13:11:58 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Wayne Edelen , Subject: Re: Not motorcycle related, but.... Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:12:38 -0500 Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury if this ford focus is not a viper you MUST acquit. /me sends Wayne 1.2 million dollar legal bill. I can't get a handle on why anyone would wanna spend 65k on a sub 20K car. Rob > > I'm gonna have to use the Chewbacca Defense on this one. > > :-) > > -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ -- Rob Sharp CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 11 13:54:00 2003 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:46:12 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Not motorcycle related, but.... At 11:17 AM 7/11/03 -0500, Sean Jordan wrote: >This could be fun.... > >http://www.atimotorsports.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=76 I'd need a pair of them...one for each foot. Do they come in adult sizes too? -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 11 14:05:15 2003 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 14:05:11 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Not motorcycle related, but.... To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX We allowed Wayne to retort: >Yep, I was thinking monster Miata :-) You could do the >conversion and still have $75,000 or so left over for a Z06, >a turbo Hayabusa, life insurance and a good bottle of >tequila. ;-) [Dave] Math seems on target... but I'd sub the tequila with Mas Cervezas ! >> I should've said "wow, that's a darn fast v6 !" > >You, as much as anyone, should know that speed is usually a >function of money spent. I'm sure if you dumped enough >money into that barndoor, er, truck it can be pretty >quick. ;-) [Dave] She's not heavy... she's just.... Big Framed ;-) Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 11 15:14:47 2003 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:14:21 -0400 From: "David Wakefield" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: (non-moto) Tax/CPA recommendations. . . Sorry to bother you all with this, but my wife and I are in dire need of a CPA's help with investment-related taxes. Can anyone recommend a qualified individual or firm in the DC area for us. (One of my past brokers kind of screwed me over tax-wise, and I now need some serious help.) Any advice is appreciated. Thanks. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 11 15:25:14 2003 Reply-To: "Jon Strang" From: "Jon Strang" To: Subject: funny video Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:25:12 -0400 > http://home.earthlink.net/~aiovan/video.wmv > > > > Motorcycle video. Really. > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 11 16:06:37 2003 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:55:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Jordan To: Sean Jordan , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: (almost) New Bike >Ugh.......that's not very *punny* at all..... >Sean Jordan The name, my son, has not been finalised... Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 11 17:26:48 2003 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:38:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: David Wakefield Cc: Subject: Re: (non-moto) Tax/CPA recommendations. . . On Fri, 11 Jul 2003, David Wakefield wrote: > Sorry to bother you all with this, but my wife and I are in dire need of > a CPA's help with investment-related taxes. Can anyone recommend a > qualified individual or firm in the DC area for us. (One of my past > brokers kind of screwed me over tax-wise, and I now need some serious > help.) Any advice is appreciated. Thanks. I can refer you to my accountant, David. He works out of Frederick, but handles clients all over the Wash, DC area. Drop me a line if you want his contact information. -- Wayne From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 11 17:40:32 2003 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:39:22 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Wayne Edelen CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Not motorcycle related, but.... all this talk about hot car conversions reminds me of the kid who worked in my hobby store. Age 16 he inherited his granny's 4-door Nova, one butt-ugly car with a Chevy six banger. He decided to keep the 6. Hmm... three dueces for carbs, wild cam, 4.88:1 rear axle, tossed the slushbox for a 4-speed tranny. Then he got giggle gas! There's probably several now grown into asdulthood guys who are still in therupy after their big block whatever got shat upon by a gross, green, 4-door six banger Nova. Dang car was smoke off the line! Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Jul 13 11:49:11 2003 From: "Michael Jordan" To: Subject: Photos online Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 11:48:57 -0400 With a Thank You to Anita for pointing me to Smugmug. A massive photo dump with minimal editing. Still were mostly taken by Sean and Thomas (I hope to include more of Thomas' when he gets his film processed and scanned) http://michaelj.smugmug.com/ Photo captions are a work in progress. Two galleries so far - our 2003 trip in general and a seperate gallery for a classic race car rally that we happened to stumble in to (timing is EVERYTHING) I'd say that your comments are invited, but this gang was never shy... ;-) Enjoy Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 14 08:30:40 2003 Subject: Re: Photos online Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 07:31:00 -0500 From: To: , Great photos Michael. Wow..."Passo dello Stelvio" !!!!! Note to self; plan a trip to the Alp's soon. George >>> Michael Jordan 07/13/03 11:48AM >>> With a Thank You to Anita for pointing me to Smugmug. A massive photo dump with minimal editing. Still were mostly taken by Sean and Thomas (I hope to include more of Thomas' when he gets his film processed and scanned) http://michaelj.smugmug.com/ Photo captions are a work in progress. Two galleries so far - our 2003 trip in general and a seperate gallery for a classic race car rally that we happened to stumble in to (timing is EVERYTHING) I'd say that your comments are invited, but this gang was never shy... ;-) Enjoy Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 14 09:41:00 2003 From: "Perry Coleman" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: funny video Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 09:40:37 -0400 Interesting video. It looks like Christina Applegate and Cameron Diaz in the car. Where did the video come from? Perry >From: "Jon Strang" >Reply-To: "Jon Strang" >To: >Subject: funny video >Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:25:12 -0400 > > > > http://home.earthlink.net/~aiovan/video.wmv > > > > > > > > Motorcycle video. Really. > > > _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 14 10:40:57 2003 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 07:40:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Photos online To: Michael Jordan , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Can you tell us where you were??? --- Michael Jordan wrote: > With a Thank You to Anita for pointing me to > Smugmug. > > A massive photo dump with minimal editing. Still > were mostly taken by Sean > and Thomas (I hope to include more of Thomas' when > he gets his film > processed and scanned) > > http://michaelj.smugmug.com/ > > Photo captions are a work in progress. > > Two galleries so far - our 2003 trip in general and > a seperate gallery for a > classic race car rally that we happened to stumble > in to (timing is > EVERYTHING) > > I'd say that your comments are invited, but this > gang was never shy... ;-) > > Enjoy > > Michael J. > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 14 10:47:22 2003 Reply-To: From: "Jim McGonigle" To: "'Perry Coleman'" , Subject: RE: funny video Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 10:45:34 -0400 anyone have a copy? must be good, no more downloads are allowed. > -----Original Message----- > From: Perry Coleman [mailto:perrycoleman@XXXXXX] > Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 9:41 AM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: funny video > > > Interesting video. It looks like Christina Applegate and > Cameron Diaz in the > car. Where did the video come from? > > Perry > > >From: "Jon Strang" > >Reply-To: "Jon Strang" > >To: > >Subject: funny video > >Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:25:12 -0400 > > > > > > > http://home.earthlink.net/~aiovan/video.wmv > > > > > > > > > > > > Motorcycle video. Really. > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 14 12:48:00 2003 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 12:48:12 -0400 To: , "'Perry Coleman'" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: funny video I did. I can send you a copy off-list if you like, but I want to make sure you can handle the attachment first...it's a bit over 4 megs... -- Mike At 10:45 AM 7/14/03 -0400, Jim McGonigle wrote: > >anyone have a copy? must be good, no more downloads are allowed. > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Perry Coleman [mailto:perrycoleman@XXXXXX] >> Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 9:41 AM >> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >> Subject: Re: funny video >> >> >> Interesting video. It looks like Christina Applegate and >> Cameron Diaz in the >> car. Where did the video come from? >> >> Perry >> >> >From: "Jon Strang" >> >Reply-To: "Jon Strang" >> >To: >> >Subject: funny video >> >Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:25:12 -0400 >> > >> > >> > > http://home.earthlink.net/~aiovan/video.wmv >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > Motorcycle video. Really. >> > > >> > >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* >> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail >> >> > **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 14 12:59:10 2003 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 12:59:06 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: RE: funny video Meant to send this to the whole list. http://www.troutman.org/ftp/pub/cool/vids/applegate_diaz_video.wmv At 10:45 AM 7/14/2003, you wrote: >anyone have a copy? must be good, no more downloads are allowed. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Perry Coleman [mailto:perrycoleman@XXXXXX] > > Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 9:41 AM > > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > Subject: Re: funny video > > > > > > Interesting video. It looks like Christina Applegate and > > Cameron Diaz in the > > car. Where did the video come from? > > > > Perry > > > > >From: "Jon Strang" > > >Reply-To: "Jon Strang" > > >To: > > >Subject: funny video > > >Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:25:12 -0400 > > > > > > > > > > http://home.earthlink.net/~aiovan/video.wmv > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Motorcycle video. Really. > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > > > ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they would never expect it -- Jack Handey From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 14 20:43:01 2003 From: "Mobacc" To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Well-parked bike downed Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:41:22 -0400 Unbelieveable. Friday evening my shiny VN750 was parked in a parking lot for an event in White Oak. Standard commercial, well marked, lit lot. About 9p I got the news -- "Will the owner of the motorcycle parked in the lot please go to the front door." At which the security guard spouted the awful news: "A lady backed into your bike -- let's go." So we walked out, and, yep, down it was with an Acura poised as if backing into its space and the driver and friend gawking. Unbelieveable. "I didn't see it. Nor did my friend. Sit in my seat, you'll not see it either." Well, of course not with the bike lying on its side. A bike which is generally parked toward the open part of a space for visibility -- this time I think a large car parked after me so as to block it. Unbelieveable. I can't count the number of times I've backed the bike up to be better seen. The rest is routine for a .01 mph downer -- including my consternation. The bike was uprighted and tested, and am riding it. Damage appears minimal so far -- clutch lever, warped handlebars, tank emblem: Fluids ok. We traded papers and she wants to handle it in her deductible which clears by me. Preventions to come? I think this ranks with the car that crashed onto the Metro tracks recently. "S**t happens". (One break -- she stayed at the scene.) Unbelieveable. Bill S. / DC '99 VN750 > Bandaids: minor surgery coming Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 14 21:29:10 2003 From: "Gary Foreman" To: Subject: Sunday Summit Point Photos Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 21:28:55 -0400 http://www.2wheeljunkie.com/photos/race_index.htm Gary From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 14 21:36:34 2003 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 21:35:26 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Mobacc CC: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Well-parked bike downed Yes, I'd give her points for staying at the scene and offering to make the bike well again. It does sound like an "oopsie", we've all had those. Bill Mobacc wrote: > Unbelieveable. > > Friday evening my shiny VN750 was parked in a parking lot for an event in > White Oak. Standard commercial, well marked, lit lot. About 9p I got the > news -- "Will the owner of the motorcycle parked in the lot please go to the > front door." > > At which the security guard spouted the awful news: "A lady backed into > your bike -- let's go." So we walked out, and, yep, down it was with an > Acura poised as if backing into its space and the driver and friend gawking. > > Unbelieveable. > > "I didn't see it. Nor did my friend. Sit in my seat, you'll not see it > either." Well, of course not with the bike lying on its side. A bike > which is generally parked toward the open part of a space for visibility -- > this time I think a large car parked after me so as to block it. > > Unbelieveable. I can't count the number of times I've backed the bike up to > be better seen. > The rest is routine for a .01 mph downer -- including my consternation. The > bike was uprighted and tested, and am riding it. Damage appears minimal so > far -- clutch lever, warped handlebars, tank emblem: Fluids ok. We traded > papers and she wants to handle it in her deductible which clears by me. > > Preventions to come? I think this ranks with the car that crashed onto the > Metro tracks recently. "S**t happens". (One break -- she stayed at the > scene.) > > Unbelieveable. > > Bill S. / DC > '99 VN750 > Bandaids: minor surgery coming > Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 14 22:43:25 2003 From: "Mobacc" To: "William J. Huson" Cc: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: Well-parked bike downed Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:41:56 -0400 Hey, this is my well-parked vehicle. Characterizations of her careless (other impairments?) tipover of my bike more serious than an "oopsie" still linger in my mind. However, assuming her sincerity in making this relatively minor situation whole, no sense in bonfiring it. Bill S. ----- Original Message ----- From: "William J. Huson" > Yes, I'd give her points for staying at the scene and offering to make the bike > well again. It does sound like an "oopsie", we've all had those. > > Bill > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 14 22:55:39 2003 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:50:34 -0400 From: Carl Parker To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: Ride to work reminder... Just a shout out for those who care. Ride to work day is the 16th - this upcoming Wednesday. "View the complete 12 panel story at www.ridetowork.org." FWIW, Carlo From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 15 06:04:01 2003 Subject: Re: Ride to work reminder... From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 15 Jul 2003 05:59:43 -0400 On Mon, 2003-07-14 at 22:50, Carl Parker wrote: > Just a shout out for those who care. > > Ride to work day is the 16th - this upcoming Wednesday. > > "View the complete 12 panel story at www.ridetowork.org." > Yea, I got spammed by them a day or two ago. At least, I don't _recall_ signing up to get notifications from 'em. Then again I'm getting unsolicited requests to subscribe to some bike magazine periodically (pun unintentional). > FWIW, Well yea. While I haven't given up on the truck/car, I very seldom drive anything but the bike to work. We should have a ride to work day on January 16th too :-) I'd be interested in seeing a ride to work day where everyone drove their trucks, SUVs and cars to work to see how it used to be in the bad old days. > Carlo We have 15 Carls on the list? > > Carlm From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 15 08:15:59 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 08:15:50 EDT Subject: Re: Ride to work reminder... To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/15/2003 6:04:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time, cschelin@XXXXXX writes: > We should have a ride to work day on > January 16th too :-) Got my vote. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 15 09:07:51 2003 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:07:48 -0400 From: "Chris Norloff" Reply-To: To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: Well-parked bike downed 'tis unbelievable. The lady deserves a big Thank You for taking responsibility for her actions. Too many people don't anymore, eh? Chris Norloff ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Mobacc" Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:41:22 -0400 >Unbelieveable. > >Friday evening my shiny VN750 was parked in a parking lot for an event in >White Oak. Standard commercial, well marked, lit lot. About 9p I got the >news -- "Will the owner of the motorcycle parked in the lot please go to the >front door." > >At which the security guard spouted the awful news: "A lady backed into >your bike -- let's go." So we walked out, and, yep, down it was with an >Acura poised as if backing into its space and the driver and friend gawking. > >Unbelieveable. > >"I didn't see it. Nor did my friend. Sit in my seat, you'll not see it >either." Well, of course not with the bike lying on its side. A bike >which is generally parked toward the open part of a space for visibility -- >this time I think a large car parked after me so as to block it. > >Unbelieveable. I can't count the number of times I've backed the bike up to >be better seen. >The rest is routine for a .01 mph downer -- including my consternation. The >bike was uprighted and tested, and am riding it. Damage appears minimal so >far -- clutch lever, warped handlebars, tank emblem: Fluids ok. We traded >papers and she wants to handle it in her deductible which clears by me. > >Preventions to come? I think this ranks with the car that crashed onto the >Metro tracks recently. "S**t happens". (One break -- she stayed at the >scene.) > >Unbelieveable. > >Bill S. / DC >'99 VN750 > Bandaids: minor surgery coming >Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 15 09:17:01 2003 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 06:16:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Non-Moto: Web Design Firm Needed To: DC Cycles Lots of techies here so I am asking. I need to start interviewing web design firms for a client-side website. Project, in a nutshell, will be to provide competitive pricing data to a large outside sales force (ie, allow a sales force to research what their competitors may charge in a competitive bid). Project will also require database design. Ideal company will have done this before and can modify an existing system. We are looking for a decent-sized company, as our experience with solo designers has been mixed. Contact me off list if you have any suggestions. Thanks, Mark Kitchell ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 15 09:57:40 2003 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 06:57:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Jordan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Photos online > Can you tell us where you were??? Mark (et. al.) Basic inenerary was pick up the bikes in Milano on the 13th - drift north into Switzerland - first night in Celerina, just north of St. Moritz. Saturday back into Italy and picked up the apartment Saturday evening - the rest of the week riding in and around the Dolomite Alps with a short ride into Austria just to be able to say that we hit Austria. Checked out of the apartment on the 21st and drifted south to Verona to visit with Gil Gates. Back up north into the hills ('twas hot as hell at the lower altitudes) and west to Switzerland to spend a couple days riding around Andermatt. Back south to Milano on the 27th to turn the bikes in Observations: A week is too long to stay in one place - it gets ridden out. 2 - 4 days at each location would have been better and allowed more mobility. Three people with widely disparate riding styles do not make for a happy group. While the memories will probably get better with age - there was a bit of friction that became really annoying towards the end. Good thing that it wasn't a 3 week trip... ;-) Will probably go solo next year. Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 15 10:05:34 2003 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 07:05:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Jordan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Photos online > Great photos Michael. >Wow..."Passo dello Stelvio" !!!!! >Note to self; plan a trip to the Alp's soon. >George The Stelvio is a bit tacky and touristy, but if you're in the neighborhood, you've GOTTA drop in for a visit. Webcams at: http://stelvio.webcam.popso.it They're 6 hours ahead of us - early morning here gets the best crowds. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 15 10:17:05 2003 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 07:16:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Re: Photos online To: Michael Jordan , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Michael: I can agree with you it was hot (and still is) in europe this summer. During my wedding it went over a 100 degrees in Grenoble, and in Italy the heat was body-melting. We are having a very mild summer compared to Europe. --- Michael Jordan wrote: > > Can you tell us where you were??? > > Mark (et. al.) > > Basic inenerary was pick up the bikes in Milano on > the 13th - drift north into Switzerland - first > night in Celerina, just north of St. Moritz. > > Saturday back into Italy and picked up the apartment > Saturday evening - the rest of the week riding in > and around the Dolomite Alps with a short ride into > Austria just to be able to say that we hit Austria. > > Checked out of the apartment on the 21st and drifted > south to Verona to visit with Gil Gates. Back up > north into the hills ('twas hot as hell at the lower > altitudes) and west to Switzerland to spend a couple > days riding around Andermatt. > > Back south to Milano on the 27th to turn the bikes > in > > Observations: > > A week is too long to stay in one place - it gets > ridden out. 2 - 4 days at each location would have > been better and allowed more mobility. > > Three people with widely disparate riding styles do > not make for a happy group. While the memories will > probably get better with age - there was a bit of > friction that became really annoying towards the > end. Good thing that it wasn't a 3 week trip... ;-) > > Will probably go solo next year. > > Michael J. > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 15 11:33:20 2003 From: "LindaT." To: "Dc-Cycles \(Dc-Cycles\)" Subject: Night of a thousand deer... Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:32:56 -0400 Or my adventure riding to the MOA national in Charleston WV. I got a really late start on Wednesday. I wanted to leave in the morning to arrive way before dark. It didn't work out that way. I wanted to not ride all interstate as there are lovely roads in WV. That didn't exactly work out as expected either. I ran my route from Maps R Us or whatever that piece of software is called. I glanced at the instructions and it appeared to me, that if I stayed on 55, I would be fine. I stayed on 55 and I wasn't fine. I didn't get started until 2pm, but I still thought I would make it by dark or shortly there after as it was supposed to be a 7 hour ride. It was 104F on I66 west and I was wearing my Rukka gear without the lining. Near the end of I66 the temp started to drop and the sky looked threatening. And it started to rain. It stopped raining. I got onto I81 south for 4 miles and then off onto 55W. Life is good. Temp still dropping to 92F. It started to rain again, this time in earnest (or West Virginia). Still too hot to put on the lining which would keep me dry. I got soaked in just a few minutes. Temp still dropping, but much faster. Got down to 68F in short order and I'm soaked. Hmmm - not feeling too cold, but the rain doesn't seem to want to let up. After several hours of wet and cool, I decide I need to A) eat something, 2) get my liners in and iii) get dry clothes on. In Petersburg, I find a McD, order a salad and change clothes. The locals are intrigued by a 'woman of a certain age' riding a motorcycle alone and all want to talk to me. Once that dies down, they go back to discussing false teeth and where to get them. I'm finally warm, dry and sated and take off again, still on 55W. In Elkins, 55 and 33 split and I think maybe I'm supposed to go with 33? Nah, stick with 55. I never look at the directions while I'm riding. Hell, I can't even walk and chew gum at the same time. Besides the road is ok and the scenery is nice and it's not raining very hard. I putter along another 70 miles or so and realize that perhaps, just perhaps, I've made an error. I stop at a restaurant and ask directions. Yep, I'm off course. The proprietor (long gray pony tail and fan of Frank Zappa), asks if I like to ride in the mountains?? It will be twisty. Uh, yeah, I think that would be acceptable (ooh, ooh). He gives me directions (backtrack to 15 and stay on that until Regional Jail sign and turn right) with the caveat that there will be fog. Ok, I can handle that. It's now 7pm and very gray with patches of drizzle. I get on 15 and it's a nice road. Some gravel on the turns, but not bad. Pretty good surface and lots of twists. Oh and deer. Did I mention the deer? It's dusk and the deer are out in force. I came out of a blind turn and there is a deer looking in the other direction. I slow down and hit the horn. Startled, the deer looks at me and bounds off. Not much of a close call. Then another deer, then another deer, then one I have to brake really hard to not hit. Then one I don't even see as it's standing in the brush 4 feet off the road, until I'm right next to it. Fortunately for me, s/he/it decides to bound away from me. Pucker moments abound. And more deer. One already dead. But lots of live ones. I keep slowing down. At 8:40pm I finally see the Jail sign and turn toward my salvation. Another deer jumps out of the bushes. I yell at him. I finally get to a town and the interstate. I'm saved - I think. Until I see a deer on the side of the interstate. Looking at me. Measuring me. Considering suicide. Deciding against it. I get to Charleston at about 9:45pm and it's really dark. I can't find the campsite and try to get directions from another rally attendee. Turns out he's as confused as I and he sends me off in the wrong direction. I find some bikes riding around and throw myself on their mercy. They are on their way back to the campsite, so I follow them. Aside - I'm supposed to stay in Billy's trailer. Billy has a nice enclosed trailer that he set up for 'camping' with a toilet, microwave, heater, air conditioning, and TV. Billy is staying in a hotel with his wife. I find the trailer and it's locked with no one around. My camping gear is in the trailer. After much fumbling, I find the correct phone number and contact Billy who graciously comes over to unlock the trailer. I get some sleep. LindaT. http://www.customtankbags.com Now - TankBags for 1800 Wings Springfield, VA (suburb of our nation's capital) AMA IBA HSTA BMWBMW 99 R1100RT Mr. Buzzy 95 F3 Purple Haze 00 KLR250 Super Sherpa Tenzing From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 15 12:39:38 2003 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 12:40:04 -0400 To: "LindaT." , "Dc-Cycles \(Dc-Cycles\)" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Night of a thousand deer... Sounds like an adventure alright, and a nice interesting writeup! Good thing the deer were mostly waiting for cars and trucks... :^) -- Mike At 11:32 AM 7/15/03 -0400, LindaT. wrote: >Or my adventure riding to the MOA national in Charleston WV. > >I got a really late start on Wednesday. I wanted to leave in the morning to >arrive way before dark. It didn't work out that way. I wanted to not ride >all interstate as there are lovely roads in WV. That didn't exactly work >out as expected either. > >I ran my route from Maps R Us or whatever that piece of software is called. >I glanced at the instructions and it appeared to me, that if I stayed on 55, >I would be fine. I stayed on 55 and I wasn't fine. > >I didn't get started until 2pm, but I still thought I would make it by dark >or shortly there after as it was supposed to be a 7 hour ride. It was 104F >on I66 west and I was wearing my Rukka gear without the lining. Near the >end of I66 the temp started to drop and the sky looked threatening. And it >started to rain. It stopped raining. I got onto I81 south for 4 miles and >then off onto 55W. Life is good. Temp still dropping to 92F. It started >to rain again, this time in earnest (or West Virginia). Still too hot to >put on the lining which would keep me dry. I got soaked in just a few >minutes. Temp still dropping, but much faster. Got down to 68F in short >order and I'm soaked. Hmmm - not feeling too cold, but the rain doesn't >seem to want to let up. After several hours of wet and cool, I decide I >need to A) eat something, 2) get my liners in and iii) get dry clothes on. >In Petersburg, I find a McD, order a salad and change clothes. The locals >are intrigued by a 'woman of a certain age' riding a motorcycle alone and >all want to talk to me. Once that dies down, they go back to discussing >false teeth and where to get them. I'm finally warm, dry and sated and take >off again, still on 55W. > >In Elkins, 55 and 33 split and I think maybe I'm supposed to go with 33? >Nah, stick with 55. I never look at the directions while I'm riding. Hell, >I can't even walk and chew gum at the same time. Besides the road is ok and >the scenery is nice and it's not raining very hard. > >I putter along another 70 miles or so and realize that perhaps, just >perhaps, I've made an error. I stop at a restaurant and ask directions. >Yep, I'm off course. The proprietor (long gray pony tail and fan of Frank >Zappa), asks if I like to ride in the mountains?? It will be twisty. Uh, >yeah, I think that would be acceptable (ooh, ooh). He gives me directions >(backtrack to 15 and stay on that until Regional Jail sign and turn right) >with the caveat that there will be fog. Ok, I can handle that. It's now >7pm and very gray with patches of drizzle. > >I get on 15 and it's a nice road. Some gravel on the turns, but not bad. >Pretty good surface and lots of twists. Oh and deer. Did I mention the >deer? It's dusk and the deer are out in force. I came out of a blind turn >and there is a deer looking in the other direction. I slow down and hit the >horn. Startled, the deer looks at me and bounds off. Not much of a close >call. Then another deer, then another deer, then one I have to brake >really hard to not hit. Then one I don't even see as it's standing in the >brush 4 feet off the road, until I'm right next to it. Fortunately for me, >s/he/it decides to bound away from me. Pucker moments abound. And more >deer. One already dead. But lots of live ones. I keep slowing down. > >At 8:40pm I finally see the Jail sign and turn toward my salvation. Another >deer jumps out of the bushes. I yell at him. I finally get to a town and >the interstate. I'm saved - I think. Until I see a deer on the side of the >interstate. Looking at me. Measuring me. Considering suicide. Deciding >against it. > >I get to Charleston at about 9:45pm and it's really dark. I can't find the >campsite and try to get directions from another rally attendee. Turns out >he's as confused as I and he sends me off in the wrong direction. I find >some bikes riding around and throw myself on their mercy. They are on their >way back to the campsite, so I follow them. > >Aside - I'm supposed to stay in Billy's trailer. Billy has a nice enclosed >trailer that he set up for 'camping' with a toilet, microwave, heater, air >conditioning, and TV. Billy is staying in a hotel with his wife. I find >the trailer and it's locked with no one around. My camping gear is in the >trailer. After much fumbling, I find the correct phone number and contact >Billy who graciously comes over to unlock the trailer. > >I get some sleep. > >LindaT. >http://www.customtankbags.com >Now - TankBags for 1800 Wings >Springfield, VA (suburb of our nation's capital) >AMA IBA HSTA BMWBMW >99 R1100RT Mr. Buzzy >95 F3 Purple Haze >00 KLR250 Super Sherpa Tenzing > > > > **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 15 15:29:10 2003 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:29:03 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: HOV Violators be damned http://www.manassasjm.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=MJM%2FMGArticle%2FWPN_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1031770048189&path=!frontpage "Chances are, lately when you've glanced over into the region's highway high-occupancy vehicle lanes you've seen people driving to work alone. Virginia officials have counted them and have seen enough. A major crackdown on violators of HOV restrictions begins Wednesday with the slogan "No Excuses." ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 15 15:41:22 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: "'Troutman'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: HOV Violators be damned Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:42:08 -0400 Good. I see no mention of Rt. 1 through Old Town. The HOV lanes are 75% VIOLATORS there. Who do I complain to for the VASP to do their enforcement there too? Mike 96 VFR 88 Hawk 76 CB400F > -----Original Message----- > From: Troutman [SMTP:mike@XXXXXX] > Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 3:29 PM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: HOV Violators be damned > > http://www.manassasjm.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=MJM%2FMGArticle%2FWPN > _BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1031770048189&path=!frontpage > > "Chances are, lately when you've glanced over into the region's highway > high-occupancy vehicle lanes you've seen people driving to work alone. > > Virginia officials have counted them and have seen enough. > > A major crackdown on violators of HOV restrictions begins Wednesday with > the slogan "No Excuses." > > > ___________________________________________ > Mike Troutman > http://www.troutman.org/vfr > 1997 Honda VFR 750 > AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ > NMA http://www.motorists.org > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 15 15:52:12 2003 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 12:52:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Subject: Re: HOV Violators be damned To: Troutman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Yay!!! I commute to work on my bike on the Dulles toll road almost every day and I see violators all the time. I'd say 35% is a conservative estimate of the number of violators in the HOV lanes. I wonder if it has anything to do with the survey I was asked to give over the phone a couple of months ago regarding HOV usage. I was asked a lot of questions relating to whether or not I used HOV, how often, how, when, why not, why, etc. The thing that pissed me off at the time (and I gave the surveyor my opinion in the "free form" section), was that NOT ONCE in the survey did it EVER mention motorcycles. In fact, many of the answers I gave would have given a reader the wrong impression due to the limited choices - i.e. I'm the only one "in" my vehicle, I travel alone, and I'm not in a low emission vehicle. Maybe they thought lawbreakers like me needed to be punished! Just as well. Still, it points to the fact that DOT seems to ignore motorcycles in their policies. Chris Weaver --- Troutman wrote: > http://www.manassasjm.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=MJM%2FMGArticle%2FWPN_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1031770048189&path=!frontpage > > "Chances are, lately when you've glanced over into > the region's highway > high-occupancy vehicle lanes you've seen people > driving to work alone. > > Virginia officials have counted them and have seen > enough. > > A major crackdown on violators of HOV restrictions > begins Wednesday with > the slogan "No Excuses." > > > ___________________________________________ > Mike Troutman > http://www.troutman.org/vfr > 1997 Honda VFR 750 > AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ > NMA http://www.motorists.org > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 15 15:55:46 2003 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:55:39 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: RE: HOV Violators be damned To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Good. > >I see no mention of Rt. 1 through Old Town. The HOV lanes >are 75% VIOLATORS there. > >Who do I complain to for the VASP to do their enforcement >there too? [Dave] You don't, you complain to Alexandria City police, as they have their own HOV statute. I don't see how in their right minds they could conceive of restricting a lane on a primary connector like rt.1 to HOV's. And if it's as you assert, then it's a violation of the MUTCD as an HOV designation... I used to go through OT as an alternative to Duke/Telegraph/Kings hwy/rt.1 S . A main problem on 1 South is that the people taking the 95 exits ( on the right side ) ride the middle or HOV lane past the last light, drop anchor and wait for someone to cut off in the exit line. HOV nonsense notwithstanding, I'd love to see Alexandria post another traffic cop _right_there_ to force those A$$holes out of the exit line & on up Rt 1... Or, alternatively, write them up ;-) Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 15 15:56:25 2003 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 12:56:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Subject: Re: HOV Violators be damned To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Another article: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A56055-2003Jul14.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 15 16:00:40 2003 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:00:13 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: HOV Violators be damned On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 chris_vtr@XXXXXX wrote: > Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 12:52:09 -0700 (PDT) > From: chris_vtr@XXXXXX > To: Troutman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: HOV Violators be damned > > Yay!!! I commute to work on my bike on the Dulles toll > road almost every day and I see violators all the > time. I'd say 35% is a conservative estimate of the > number of violators in the HOV lanes. Uhhhh, isn't strip up the middle of the DTR not HOV, but rather the toll-free "access" road to/from the airport??? OTOH, I really don't see how everyone's life wouldn't be better if the either DID make it into HOV, or just made the whole damn road a couple more lanes wide. It would seem like that would help spread traffic out, more evenly. Even better, if they'd like, built some rails out there, rather than the access lanes for the airport. Hosers. Of course, if they made tolls for scoots either non-existant, or just lower than cages, I'd be happy. -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 15 16:06:18 2003 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:06:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Subject: Re: HOV Violators be damned To: "Daniel H. Brown" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Yes, that's correct - that road is called the "Dulles Access Road." The outermost lane of the "normal" lanes ("Dulles TOLL road") is HOV during rush hour. That's where I ride. Cheers, Chris --- "Daniel H. Brown" wrote: > Uhhhh, isn't strip up the middle of the DTR not HOV, > but rather the > toll-free "access" road to/from the airport??? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 15 16:31:22 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:31:00 EDT Subject: Re: HOV Violators be damned To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/15/2003 3:52:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, chris_vtr@XXXXXX writes: > Still, it points to the > fact that DOT seems to ignore motorcycles in their > policies. _V_DOT VA was the state that fought hardest to keep bikes out of the HOV lanes. Did a study in order to prove that they would not be safe there, backfired proving that the HOV lanes were the safest place for us to be. Pissed em off I expect. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 15 16:34:20 2003 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: DC Speed Cameras Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:22:36 -0400 As seen of FOX news last night, the DC speed cameras now work at night too. I'm not sure why they didn't before. I know red light cameras work at night in VA. _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 15 16:35:16 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:35:01 EDT Subject: Re: HOV Violators be damned To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/15/2003 3:56:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Dave@XXXXXX writes: > I'd love to > see Alexandria post another traffic cop _right_there_ to > force those A$$holes out of the exit line & on up Rt 1... > Or, alternatively, write them up ;-) I gotta go with you on that one. BUT allow me to point out that the HOV "lane" in oldtown is a parking lane when it is not an HOV lane. There is no lane "taken away" the HOV is an additional lane. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 15 16:41:51 2003 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: HOV (Dulles Toll) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:41:42 -0400 The toll plaza is free for motorcycles. Ride in the 2nd lane from the left, where they took out the curb when they raised the speed limit from 10 to 35 a few years back. Be sure to have your smarttag on though, just in case. You won't get a blue light and bells, but you don't get a green one either. It's like you were never there, which is almost true given the amount of damage you do to the road compared to a car. Of course you're not supporting the rail extension you want. >From: "Daniel H. Brown" >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: HOV Violators be damned >Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:00:13 -0400 (EDT) > > > >On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 chris_vtr@XXXXXX wrote: > > > Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 12:52:09 -0700 (PDT) > > From: chris_vtr@XXXXXX > > To: Troutman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > Subject: Re: HOV Violators be damned > > > > Yay!!! I commute to work on my bike on the Dulles toll > > road almost every day and I see violators all the > > time. I'd say 35% is a conservative estimate of the > > number of violators in the HOV lanes. > >Uhhhh, isn't strip up the middle of the DTR not HOV, but rather the >toll-free "access" road to/from the airport??? > >OTOH, I really don't see how everyone's life wouldn't be better if the >either DID make it into HOV, or just made the whole damn road a couple more >lanes wide. It would seem like that would help spread traffic out, more >evenly. > >Even better, if they'd like, built some rails out there, rather than >the access lanes for the airport. Hosers. > >Of course, if they made tolls for scoots either non-existant, or just >lower than cages, I'd be happy. > >-- >Dan Brown >brown@XXXXXX > _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 15 16:41:53 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:41:41 EDT Subject: Re: DC Speed Cameras To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/15/2003 4:34:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, richallmc@XXXXXX writes: > As seen of FOX news last night, the DC speed cameras now work at night too. > I'm not sure why they didn't before. Fear of vandalism by a few thousand pissed of commuters under cover of darkness? I expect there will be a "cop" in the car to protect it at night. An inflateacop, but a cop. Not me, and I did not write this, someone broke into my house, yea thats it someone broke into my house to use my comp. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 15 16:52:48 2003 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:52:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Subject: Re: HOV (Dulles Toll) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I'm not comfortable breaking the law for less than a dollar. More than a dollar? Ehh... maybe. I recently found out that the Dulles Greenway (the continuation of the toll road past Dulles airport) is going to raise their rates AGAIN, after doing so just last year. If they do this, I hope and expect that they will fall flat on their faces. The fees are already ridiculous ($1.90 each way NON rush) and they were raised just LAST YEAR (in a flat economy no less). If they do this, f*** them - I'll use rt. 28 no matter how FUBAR it gets. Money grubbing a-holes... mumblemumblegrumble... (FYI the Toll Road motorcycle trick doesn't work on the Greenway.) Chris Weaver --- rich hall wrote: > The toll plaza is free for motorcycles. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 15 16:53:21 2003 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:53:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Subject: Re: HOV (Dulles Toll) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX By the way, here's a link regarding the money-grubbing aholes at the Greenway that I mentioned: http://www.dullesgreenway.com/cgi-bin/dgpress41.cfm?home=#home __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 15 16:56:35 2003 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:56:31 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: HOV (Dulles Toll) At 04:52 PM 7/15/2003, chris_vtr@XXXXXX wrote: > If they do this, f*** them - I'll use rt. 28 no >matter how FUBAR it gets. Money grubbing a-holes... >mumblemumblegrumble... You'll use what they tell you to use and you'll like it. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 15 17:01:00 2003 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:59:27 -0400 To: Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: HOV Violators be damned At 03:55 PM 7/15/03 -0400, Dave Yates wrote: > >I don't see how in their right minds they could conceive of >restricting a lane on a primary connector like rt.1 to >HOV's. Probably the same reason they created a useless HOV lane down in Norfolk: to get the federal highway funds allocated to creating HOV lanes. >main problem on 1 South is that the people taking the 95 >exits ( on the right side ) ride the middle or HOV lane past >the last light, drop anchor and wait for someone to cut off >in the exit line. Most of the problems with traffic in this area (other than the ones stemming from just too damn much of it) are due to the "me first!" attitude of way too many of the drivers. HOV nonsense notwithstanding, I'd love to >see Alexandria post another traffic cop _right_there_ to >force those A$$holes out of the exit line & on up Rt 1... >Or, alternatively, write them up ;-) Yeah, it's called "obstructing traffic" and every place I've ever been has a law against it. If you can't make your turn, you go straight and find another route. Teach you to plan ahead next time! BTW - I've noticed that every part of the country seems to have a distinct "style" when it comes to vehicular road use. Most can be summed up in a word or short phrase. Here's what I have from several years of doing field service travel around the country: Washington, D.C. : "Me first!" Minneapolis, MN: "Step on it! It's only four inches deep!" Los Angeles, CA: "Step on it! You're only doing 75!" Huntsville, AL: "No, I insist, after you!" Ohio: "Wake me when we get near a city." New Jersey: "Left..no! Right! No..left!...ahhh...STOP!" New York, NY: "Hey! I'm drivin' hea!" Boston, MA: "Banzai!!!" Ft. Meyer, FL: "Look! A pelican!" -- Mike **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 15 17:11:25 2003 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: HOV (Dulles Toll) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:11:17 -0400 I'm just driving on the road provided, don't see how I'm breaking the law. Sad part is I learned about that after I got a job where I don't commute on the toll road. >From: >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: HOV (Dulles Toll) >Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:52:40 -0700 (PDT) > >I'm not comfortable breaking the law for less than a >dollar. More than a dollar? Ehh... maybe. >--- rich hall wrote: > > The toll plaza is free for motorcycles. _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 15 18:32:31 2003 From: "Richard Karcher" To: customtankbags@XXXXXX Cc: DC-CYCLES@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Night of a thousand deer... Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 18:32:23 -0400 I love too hear stories of city folk in the country. By the way, How do you know the tooth brush is a WV invention? (this is a joke only WV folk may tell) Richard Karcher WV Home Grown for those who know what that means. >From: "LindaT." >To: "Dc-Cycles \(Dc-Cycles\)" >Subject: Night of a thousand deer... >Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:32:56 -0400 > >Or my adventure riding to the MOA national in Charleston WV. > >I got a really late start on Wednesday. I wanted to leave in the morning >to >arrive way before dark. It didn't work out that way. I wanted to not ride >all interstate as there are lovely roads in WV. That didn't exactly work >out as expected either. > >I ran my route from Maps R Us or whatever that piece of software is called. >I glanced at the instructions and it appeared to me, that if I stayed on >55, >I would be fine. I stayed on 55 and I wasn't fine. > >I didn't get started until 2pm, but I still thought I would make it by dark >or shortly there after as it was supposed to be a 7 hour ride. It was 104F >on I66 west and I was wearing my Rukka gear without the lining. Near the >end of I66 the temp started to drop and the sky looked threatening. And it >started to rain. It stopped raining. I got onto I81 south for 4 miles and >then off onto 55W. Life is good. Temp still dropping to 92F. It started >to rain again, this time in earnest (or West Virginia). Still too hot to >put on the lining which would keep me dry. I got soaked in just a few >minutes. Temp still dropping, but much faster. Got down to 68F in short >order and I'm soaked. Hmmm - not feeling too cold, but the rain doesn't >seem to want to let up. After several hours of wet and cool, I decide I >need to A) eat something, 2) get my liners in and iii) get dry clothes on. >In Petersburg, I find a McD, order a salad and change clothes. The locals >are intrigued by a 'woman of a certain age' riding a motorcycle alone and >all want to talk to me. Once that dies down, they go back to discussing >false teeth and where to get them. I'm finally warm, dry and sated and >take >off again, still on 55W. > >In Elkins, 55 and 33 split and I think maybe I'm supposed to go with 33? >Nah, stick with 55. I never look at the directions while I'm riding. >Hell, >I can't even walk and chew gum at the same time. Besides the road is ok >and >the scenery is nice and it's not raining very hard. > >I putter along another 70 miles or so and realize that perhaps, just >perhaps, I've made an error. I stop at a restaurant and ask directions. >Yep, I'm off course. The proprietor (long gray pony tail and fan of Frank >Zappa), asks if I like to ride in the mountains?? It will be twisty. Uh, >yeah, I think that would be acceptable (ooh, ooh). He gives me directions >(backtrack to 15 and stay on that until Regional Jail sign and turn right) >with the caveat that there will be fog. Ok, I can handle that. It's now >7pm and very gray with patches of drizzle. > >I get on 15 and it's a nice road. Some gravel on the turns, but not bad. >Pretty good surface and lots of twists. Oh and deer. Did I mention the >deer? It's dusk and the deer are out in force. I came out of a blind turn >and there is a deer looking in the other direction. I slow down and hit >the >horn. Startled, the deer looks at me and bounds off. Not much of a close >call. Then another deer, then another deer, then one I have to brake >really hard to not hit. Then one I don't even see as it's standing in the >brush 4 feet off the road, until I'm right next to it. Fortunately for me, >s/he/it decides to bound away from me. Pucker moments abound. And more >deer. One already dead. But lots of live ones. I keep slowing down. > >At 8:40pm I finally see the Jail sign and turn toward my salvation. >Another >deer jumps out of the bushes. I yell at him. I finally get to a town and >the interstate. I'm saved - I think. Until I see a deer on the side of >the >interstate. Looking at me. Measuring me. Considering suicide. Deciding >against it. > >I get to Charleston at about 9:45pm and it's really dark. I can't find the >campsite and try to get directions from another rally attendee. Turns out >he's as confused as I and he sends me off in the wrong direction. I find >some bikes riding around and throw myself on their mercy. They are on >their >way back to the campsite, so I follow them. > >Aside - I'm supposed to stay in Billy's trailer. Billy has a nice enclosed >trailer that he set up for 'camping' with a toilet, microwave, heater, air >conditioning, and TV. Billy is staying in a hotel with his wife. I find >the trailer and it's locked with no one around. My camping gear is in the >trailer. After much fumbling, I find the correct phone number and contact >Billy who graciously comes over to unlock the trailer. > >I get some sleep. > >LindaT. >http://www.customtankbags.com >Now - TankBags for 1800 Wings >Springfield, VA (suburb of our nation's capital) >AMA IBA HSTA BMWBMW >99 R1100RT Mr. Buzzy >95 F3 Purple Haze >00 KLR250 Super Sherpa Tenzing > > > > _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 15 18:53:59 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: Re: Night of a thousand deer... Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 18:53:11 -0400 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec792619bbfa4a9d1c9c6b9f2842586a5d57350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Rk writes > I love too hear stories of city folk in the country. [Dave] whoa. scoffing _from_ WbgVA? ! :-O I love when West Virginians talk about 'country'... 2 words for you - "Zekiah Swamp". > > By the way, How do you know the tooth brush is a WV invention? (this is a > joke only WV folk may tell) [Dave] I don't know... How do we know? > Richard Karcher > WV Home Grown for those who know what that means. [Dave] Isn't WVHG a particlar hybrid seed of marijuana commonly sold in DC ? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 15 19:03:26 2003 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 19:14:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Night of a thousand deer... On Tue, 15 Jul 2003, Dave Yates wrote: > > By the way, How do you know the tooth brush is a WV invention? (this is a > > joke only WV folk may tell) > > [Dave] I don't know... How do we know? C'mon Dave... If it were invented anywhere else it would be a teethbrush. Here's a better one: Why is it so difficult to solve a murder in West Virginia? - all DNA is the same. - there are no dental records. Thank you, thank you, I'll be here all week :-) -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 15 19:20:50 2003 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:20:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Larry Larson Subject: Re: HOV Violators be damned To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > I gotta go with you on that one. BUT allow me to point > out that the HOV > "lane" in oldtown is a parking lane when it is not an HOV > lane. There is no lane > "taken away" the HOV is an additional lane. No, it's not. The OT Route 1 HOV lanes are the left-most of three traffic lanes in each direction. The really dumb part of these HOV lanes is that they stay HOV after the last possible left turn (the U-turn just south of Duke St.), meaning everyone else if forced heading south on Rt 1 is forced to sit stopped behind all the assholes in the middle lane who are waiting to force their way into the right lane in order to exit for the Beltway. It just makes a bad situation worse. They ought to kill HOV after Duke St. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 15 19:32:10 2003 From: "Richard Karcher" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Night of a thousand deer... Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 19:32:02 -0400 Wane said: >C'mon Dave... If it were invented anywhere else it would be a teethbrush. Good job on answering the joke Wane! I'm officially naming Wayne Edelen as an honorary member of the WV family. You may now kiss your sister. Richard Karcher _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 15 19:37:47 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: Re: HOV Violators be damned Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 19:36:41 -0400 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec7959069141dc107b5a60ff8d22350c4842350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Is there an echo in here? > The really dumb part of these HOV lanes is that they stay > HOV after the last possible left turn (the U-turn just > south of Duke St.), meaning everyone else if forced heading > south on Rt 1 is forced to sit stopped behind all the > assholes in the middle lane who are waiting to force their > way into the right lane in order to exit for the Beltway. [Dave] That's being generous, when I stopped using that route, it was common for not only the middle lane, but the lane formerly known as the HOV lane traffic to do the same thing... just look for the Maryland tags.... > It just makes a bad situation worse. They ought to kill HOV > after Duke St. [Dave] I noticed that they also assign meter maids to direct traffic in OT. IIRC, the Rt 1 / Duke director is a meter maid... Even so, everyone is just so much more polite... HOV is just a collossal waste in Alexandria. No wonder the EPA is crawling up the area's ass. Everywhere traffic is stacked up while the HOV's are moving along is fucking up the air for everyone else. Some weaselly lawyer should sue the EPA for second hand exhaust fume inhalation directly related to HOV lanes... Dave From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 15 19:55:47 2003 From: "LindaT." To: "Dc-Cycles \(Dc-Cycles\)" Subject: RE: Night of a thousand deer... Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 19:54:57 -0400 Just as an aside, I was born in West By God Virginia. There, that explains it. LindaT. http://www.customtankbags.com Now - TankBags for 1800 Wings Springfield, VA (suburb of our nation's capital) AMA IBA HSTA BMWBMW 99 R1100RT Mr. Buzzy 95 F3 Purple Haze 00 KLR250 Super Sherpa Tenzing From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 15 20:54:40 2003 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 20:53:49 -0400 From: Dale Horstman To: "LindaT." CC: "Dc-Cycles (Dc-Cycles)" Subject: Re: Night of a thousand deer... "LindaT." wrote: > > Just as an aside, I was born in West By God Virginia. Don't worry Linda, we still like you anyway. :) Horkster -- Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark) Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX "My ambition in life is to Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth minimize my stress level." CM #001 NRA IBA COG '98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer '99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi '82 Suzuki GS850G - Neat old bike From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 15 21:07:09 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: "Daniel H. Brown" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: HOV Violators be damned Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 20:07:29 -0500 On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:00:13 -0400 (EDT), Daniel H. Brown wrote HERE HERE. I second the motion of metro to dulles. I go to the air port on a regular basis for work related travel and I would love to ride the metro out there. Right now it's a bus to metro, metro, bus to air port. Bus/cab to metro then strait to the air port would rock. DCA is just too expensive to fly out of, to consider that option Rob > Even better, if they'd like, built some rails out there, rather than > the access lanes for the airport. Hosers. > > Of course, if they made tolls for scoots either non-existant, or just > lower than cages, I'd be happy. > > -- > Dan Brown > brown@XXXXXX -- Rob Sharp CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 16 00:35:16 2003 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 00:30:06 -0400 From: Carl Parker To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" , mike@XXXXXX, chris_vtr@XXXXXX Subject: Re: HOV (Dulles Toll) >> If they do this, f*** them - I'll use rt. 28 no >>matter how FUBAR it gets. Money grubbing a-holes... >>mumblemumblegrumble... > >You'll use what they tell you to use and you'll like it. Or move to somplace different... Adapt, migrate, or die. Carlo From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 16 07:51:03 2003 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 07:48:51 -0400 From: Tom de To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: DC Speed Cameras rich hall wrote: > As seen of FOX news last night, the DC speed cameras now work at night > too. > I'm not sure why they didn't before. I know red light cameras work at > night in VA. > That reminds me, anybody have any luck with tag photo blockers (whatever they're called). Tom de '98 VTR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 16 07:59:39 2003 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 04:59:32 -0700 (PDT) From: "Louis F. Caplan" Subject: Ride to Work on WTOP To: DC-Cycles "Sprawl and Crawl" news reporter Steve Eldridge gave a nod to "Ride to Work Day" on WTOP this morning. Most of the information he gave came straight out of the press release from the Ride to Work bunch, but he did throw in the kicker (since they were just talking about how the police are cracking down on HOV violators) that motorcycles are allowed in the HOV lanes. Louis ===== "Admiral" Louis Caplan 1998 Kawasaki Concours Fairfax, VA Please consider helping me support the Pediatrics Brain Tumor Foundation http://www.geocities.com/nighthawk700/rideforkids.htm __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 16 08:01:49 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:01:44 EDT Subject: Re: HOV Violators be damned To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/15/2003 7:21:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, pltrgyst@XXXXXX writes: > No, it's not. The OT Route 1 HOV lanes are the left-most of > three traffic lanes in each direction. > Yea. My bad. I realized my error when I was riding down _Washington_ in Old Town last night on the way to see "Lady Chatterlys Lover" open (Clark Street Playhouse. Been working there as TD for the theater inclined out there.) I have been riding that &$(#&^^$(&#^^ etc. road back and forth to the theater lately, damn! what a FUBAR road. On Washington it is the right parking lane that turns into an HOV for a couple of hours in the morning and evening. Of course the rush "hour" lasts for more then the 4pm. to 6pm. it is HOV and there is always some ass parked in it rendering it damn near useless even without the violators. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 16 08:05:34 2003 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:05:23 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Dan Brown Subject: RTW. Ride to work day forecast on Www.wunderground.org says only a 30% chance of showers -- well over break even there. Anyone of the Reston crowd interested in lunch? Say... 11:45 at Tortilla Factory? Not sure how my schedule (damn computers and users) will go today, but I'll see if I can break away for lunch. -- Resist or Serve From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 16 08:28:02 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:27:51 EDT Subject: Re: DC Speed Cameras To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/16/2003 7:51:45 AM Eastern Daylight Time, tdeboeser@XXXXXX writes: > That reminds me, anybody have any luck with tag photo blockers How would you know? I mean the point is to _not_ hear from the DC, VA Highway thieves. I mean if you do hear, it dont work. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 16 08:34:47 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: "Daniel H. Brown" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: HOV Violators be damned Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 8:34:40 -0400 > OTOH, I really don't see how everyone's life wouldn't be better if the > either DID make it into HOV, or just made the whole damn road a couple more > lanes wide. It would seem like that would help spread traffic out, more > evenly. Just pave it solid from edge to edge, remove all the fences, barriers and lane stripes, and let people have at it. In a few months there will be MUCH less traffic . Bob Meyer '92 Standard STOC # 1157 If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 16 08:57:33 2003 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:55:22 -0400 From: Tom de To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: DC Speed Cameras PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: >In a message dated 7/16/2003 7:51:45 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >tdeboeser@XXXXXX writes: > > > >>That reminds me, anybody have any luck with tag photo blockers >> >> > >How would you know? >I mean the point is to _not_ hear from the DC, VA Highway thieves. >I mean if you do hear, it dont work. > You're probably right, but I would imagine you might be able to see the vehicle after passing it (they have been in vans). Also if your the only guy on the road ( or there are very few cars ) and you're flying you could assume you got caught. And don't the stop light cameras flash all the time ( day/night )? Tom de '98 > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 16 09:31:35 2003 From: "Jeff Wisecarver" To: tdeboeser@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: DC Speed Cameras Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:31:25 -0400 Fox News did an expose` on those reflective covers and a reflective spray. There's a video online in their archives that I saw a while back. The spray worked the best, but it was also the most visible to people driving by you. The relective covers worked pretty good too by increasing the exposure of light to the camera for a couple of the letters in your license plate. This is it...links to the fox news video.... www.phantomplate.com ----------- Jeffrey C. Wisecarver jeff_wisecarver@XXXXXX Home (703)780-5421 Cell (703)786-4723 '89 RED ----Original Message Follows---- From: Tom de To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: DC Speed Cameras Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:55:22 -0400 PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: >In a message dated 7/16/2003 7:51:45 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >tdeboeser@XXXXXX writes: > > > >>That reminds me, anybody have any luck with tag photo blockers >> > >How would you know? >I mean the point is to _not_ hear from the DC, VA Highway thieves. >I mean if you do hear, it dont work. > You're probably right, but I would imagine you might be able to see the vehicle after passing it (they have been in vans). Also if your the only guy on the road ( or there are very few cars ) and you're flying you could assume you got caught. And don't the stop light cameras flash all the time ( day/night )? Tom de '98 > > _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 16 09:42:06 2003 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:41:28 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: 2 commutes, 3 stories. Yesterday's commute stopped abruptly on Henderson in the Clifton area when my bike died in stop and go traffic. No warning sign - just electrically died. I pushed it to the side of the road, up one of the few turn lanes and let it rest. I had stopped on a long driveway, and a few minutes later I was able to pop-start it. It ran normally for 10 minutes or so, then died going downhill - where I pop started it again. From there on I kept the revs high (pissing off the person behind me unfortunately) and the bike moving all the way home. Put a good overnight charge on the battery and had no issues today (so far). I'll pick up a new battery tonight and watch closely for yet another RR failure. I am at 37k miles and my last was around 24k. Whoever asked when a good time to ride Clifton is - my answer is "This morning at 8:40am". Not a single car visible in front of or behind me - until the cop running revenue radar on Clifton Road. A known trap lately. GPS pegged me at 36.8 in a 35. 8P <----sticking tongue out. This morning's commute included 2 lane veers (am I invisible?) and what was very close to a 3 car pileup. A lost Asian lady in a 20 year old Corolla pulled a 3 lane U-turn on West Ox near Fair Oaks in front of a straight line wall of three cars. The cars were going about 50 ... 80 feet from the U-turn. She completed the idiot maneuver into the far right lane in front of a nosediving F-150. Fortunately I was in the far left lane and saw it all in time. Ugh. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 16 09:43:50 2003 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:43:34 -0400 To: Dan Brown From: Troutman Subject: Re: RTW. Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Yep. I'm in. At 08:05 AM 7/16/2003, Dan Brown wrote: >Anyone of the Reston crowd interested in lunch? Say... 11:45 at Tortilla >Factory? Not sure how my schedule (damn computers and users) will go >today, but I'll see if I can break away for lunch. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they would never expect it -- Jack Handey From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 16 10:40:19 2003 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 07:40:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Larry Larson Subject: Re: HOV Violators be damned To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > I realized my error when I was riding down _Washington_ > in Old Town last night.. what a FUBAR road. On > Washington it is the > right parking lane > that turns into an HOV for a couple of hours in the > morning and evening. Of > course the rush "hour" lasts for more then the 4pm. to > 6pm. it is HOV and there > is always some ass parked in it rendering it damn near > useless even without the violators. When I lived down there (700 block of Washington, across from Sutton Place Gourmet), the used to be really quick with a tow truck if anyone parked in that HOV lane before HOV hours ended. Guess they've slacked off... You have the same problem there as on Rt 1, anyway, because the drivers tie up two or all three lanes just before the right onto Gibbon St., which is the main and last cut-over to Rt. 1. Once you get past Gibbon, though, it's usually pretty clear sailing onto the Parkway. That's our fallback route for getting from the north end of OT to the Mount Vernon area when Rt 1 is a parking lot (i.e., whwnever there's so much as a single cloud in the sky). -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 16 10:49:18 2003 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 07:49:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Larry Larson Subject: Re: RTW. To: Dan Brown , dc-cycles@XXXXXX The Crystal City group is still scheduled to be riding from Crystal Drive and 20th St. to lunch at the Old Brogue in Great Falls, VA at 11:30. Anyone is welcome. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 16 10:55:54 2003 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:55:35 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: Larry Larson cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: RTW. Are you all leaving Crystal city at 11:30 or lunching at 11:30? Also, how many were considering showing up at Tortilla Factory. Great Falls isn't actually that hard to get to, from Reston. On Wed, 16 Jul 2003, Larry Larson wrote: > Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 07:49:13 -0700 (PDT) > From: Larry Larson > To: Dan Brown , dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: RTW. > > The Crystal City group is still scheduled to be riding from > Crystal Drive and 20th St. to lunch at the Old Brogue in > Great Falls, VA at 11:30. Anyone is welcome. > > -- Larry > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > http://sbc.yahoo.com > > -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 16 11:13:18 2003 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:13:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: HOV Violators be damned To: Larry Larson , PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX What Penguin described is the biggest problem with rush hour in DC, and many other large cities. Many DC streets are no parking during rush hour (for example, Fla, Conn., Wisc). Not for HOV but for everyone. Just one car, even with its flashers on, fucks it all up. Since DC probably has 15% of its streets no parking during rush hour, its hard to tow all the violators. One thing, if you are towed, they just dump you a few blocks away (in a free space) so you have to find your own car. HA! --- Larry Larson wrote: > --- PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > > > I realized my error when I was riding down > _Washington_ > > in Old Town last night.. what a FUBAR road. On > > Washington it is the > > right parking lane > > that turns into an HOV for a couple of hours in > the > > morning and evening. Of > > course the rush "hour" lasts for more then the > 4pm. to > > 6pm. it is HOV and there > > is always some ass parked in it rendering it damn > near > > useless even without the violators. > > When I lived down there (700 block of Washington, > across > from Sutton Place Gourmet), the used to be really > quick > with a tow truck if anyone parked in that HOV lane > before > HOV hours ended. Guess they've slacked off... > > You have the same problem there as on Rt 1, anyway, > because > the drivers tie up two or all three lanes just > before the > right onto Gibbon St., which is the main and last > cut-over > to Rt. 1. Once you get past Gibbon, though, it's > usually > pretty clear sailing onto the Parkway. That's our > fallback > route for getting from the north end of OT to the > Mount > Vernon area when Rt 1 is a parking lot (i.e., > whwnever > there's so much as a single cloud in the sky). > > -- Larry > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > http://sbc.yahoo.com > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 16 11:14:19 2003 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:08:55 -0400 To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX, "Daniel H. Brown" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Re: HOV Violators be damned At 08:34 AM 7/16/03 -0400, Bob Meyer wrote: >> OTOH, I really don't see how everyone's life wouldn't be better if the >> either DID make it into HOV, or just made the whole damn road a couple more >> lanes wide. It would seem like that would help spread traffic out, more >> evenly. > >Just pave it solid from edge to edge, remove all the fences, barriers and lane stripes, and let people have at it. In a few months there will be MUCH less traffic . I've always thought that we should institute "National Highway Freedom Day", where once a year for 24 hours there are NO TRAFFIC LAWS AT ALL on the interstate highways. People could go as fast or slow as they like, drive whatever sort of vehicle they like, use whatever lane they like, and drive however they like...for 24 hours only. Let them get it all out of their systems. NHFD would be followed by "National Highway Junk Clearance Day", where anyone who likes can go onto the interstate and salvage whatever they find there from midnight to 6pm. Vehicles, body parts, whatever is there that isn't part of the road system. From 6pm to midnight the highway crews would clean up what's left for sale to scrap yards. Both days should be scheduled so as to create a long weekend for all the sane people so they can stay OFF of the interstates and have cookouts or whatever. Over time the level of courtesy on the roads should increase as all the loons die off. -- Mike **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 16 11:53:52 2003 From: "Rob Keiser" To: mike@XXXXXX, brown@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: RTW. Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:42:14 -0400 Me too. See you there! Rob '98 VFR800 From: Troutman To: Dan Brown CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: RTW. Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:43:34 -0400 Yep. I'm in. At 08:05 AM 7/16/2003, Dan Brown wrote: >Anyone of the Reston crowd interested in lunch? Say... 11:45 at Tortilla >Factory? Not sure how my schedule (damn computers and users) will go today, >but I'll see if I can break away for lunch. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they would never expect it -- Jack Handey _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 16 11:58:17 2003 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:58:13 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: HOV Violators be damned To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Larry foolishly revealed the secret: >You have the same problem there as on Rt 1, anyway, because >the drivers tie up two or all three lanes just before the >right onto Gibbon St., which is the main and last cut-over >to Rt. 1. Once you get past Gibbon, though, it's usually >pretty clear sailing onto the Parkway. [Dave] Ack! NO, it's terrible on the GW pkway. bumper to bumper... And lots of deer. Did I mention it's hotter than H@ll there too? No, this is not the road the list is looking for... > That's our fallback >route for getting from the north end of OT to the Mount >Vernon area when Rt 1 is a parking lot (i.e., whwnever >there's so much as a single cloud in the sky). [Dave] There's 19 lights between the beltway and 235 (to get to Mount Vernon) on Rt 1. And they're a very pretty shade of "Virginia State bird Cardinal Red"... MUCH more scenic than that ugly GW parkway, Bleh! DC Cyclers would much prefer rt 1 ... > >-- Larry > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! >http://sbc.yahoo.com > Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 16 12:05:50 2003 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 12:05:26 -0400 To: "Jeff Wisecarver" , tdeboeser@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: DC Speed Cameras Rather than worrying about whether you can successfully break the law or not, why not just obey it? It's not an unreasonable law...unlike some others. -- Mike At 09:31 AM 7/16/03 -0400, Jeff Wisecarver wrote: >Fox News did an expose` on those reflective covers and a reflective spray. >There's a video online in their archives that I saw a while back. The spray >worked the best, but it was also the most visible to people driving by you. >The relective covers worked pretty good too by increasing the exposure of >light to the camera for a couple of the letters in your license plate. >This is it...links to the fox news video.... >www.phantomplate.com > > > >----------- >Jeffrey C. Wisecarver >jeff_wisecarver@XXXXXX >Home (703)780-5421 >Cell (703)786-4723 >'89 RED > > > > > >----Original Message Follows---- >From: Tom de >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: DC Speed Cameras >Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:55:22 -0400 > >PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > >>In a message dated 7/16/2003 7:51:45 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >>tdeboeser@XXXXXX writes: >> >> >> >>>That reminds me, anybody have any luck with tag photo blockers >>> >> >>How would you know? >>I mean the point is to _not_ hear from the DC, VA Highway thieves. >>I mean if you do hear, it dont work. >> >You're probably right, but I would imagine you might be able to see the >vehicle after passing it (they have been in vans). Also if your the only >guy on the road ( or there are very few cars ) and you're flying you could >assume you got caught. And don't the stop light cameras flash all the time >( day/night )? > >Tom de '98 > >> >> > >_________________________________________________________________ >Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail > **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 16 12:21:19 2003 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 12:16:54 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: 2 commutes, 3 stories. At 09:41 AM 7/16/03 -0400, Troutman wrote: >Yesterday's commute stopped abruptly on Henderson in the Clifton area when >my bike died in stop and go traffic. No warning sign - just electrically >died. I pushed it to the side of the road, up one of the few turn lanes >and let it rest. I had stopped on a long driveway, and a few minutes later >I was able to pop-start it. It ran normally for 10 minutes or so, then >died going downhill - where I pop started it again. From there on I kept >the revs high (pissing off the person behind me unfortunately) and the bike >moving all the way home. Put a good overnight charge on the battery and >had no issues today (so far). I'll pick up a new battery tonight and watch >closely for yet another RR failure. I am at 37k miles and my last was >around 24k. Sounds like your generator/alternator isn't working...though there are other possibilities I guess. The fact that keeping revs up helped makes me think that's it though...but I'm not a mechanic. I'd be interested in hearing what it turns out to me though...whether I'm right or (especially) not. ;^) > GPS pegged me at 36.8 in a 35. 8P <----sticking tongue out. Where do you have your GPS mounted? I've got a mount for mine in my Jeep, but I've been thinking that a bike would be a good place to put one. On the tank, or on the bars? >This morning's commute included 2 lane veers (am I invisible?) Probably not...even in my Jeep Grand Cherokee I get idiots trying to move into my space. As someone wise once said, "Where stupidity is an adequate explanation it is seldom necessary to look farther." >and what was >very close to a 3 car pileup. A lost Asian lady in a 20 year old Corolla >pulled a 3 lane U-turn on West Ox near Fair Oaks in front of a straight >line wall of three cars. The cars were going about 50 ... 80 feet from the >U-turn. She completed the idiot maneuver into the far right lane in front >of a nosediving F-150. Fortunately I was in the far left lane and saw it >all in time. Ugh. DWO. My only car accident also involved an Asian lady...she stopped for no apparent reason on an empty acceleration lane. I was looking over my shoulder for the merge and looked back *almost* in time. I nearly got stopped, but not quite. Damage to her rear and my front to the tune of several hundred dollars each. She had several hundred feet of open road in front of her and there was no reason to stop...but she did anyway. I see lots of people doing stupid things on the road, but the Asians seem to be the culprits when it gets so completely idiotic that you just can't predict it. (note for the logic impaired: this does not mean that all Asians are bad drivers...just that most of the worst seem to be Asian. I got the "DWO" (Driving While Oriental) thing from a cop I used to know.) -- Mike **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 16 12:23:48 2003 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 12:23:44 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: RTW. At 11:42 AM 7/16/2003, Rob Keiser wrote: >Me too. See you there! > >Rob >'98 VFR800 I waited until almost noon, then headed to McD's. No one showed. Had two more 'I can't see you let me merge on to you' during the lunch ride. That makes 4 today - and it rarely happens to me. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 16 12:30:18 2003 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 12:30:13 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: 2 commutes, 3 stories. At 12:16 PM 7/16/2003, Mike Bartman wrote: > > GPS pegged me at 36.8 in a 35. 8P <----sticking tongue out. > >Where do you have your GPS mounted? I've got a mount for mine in my Jeep, >but I've been thinking that a bike would be a good place to put one. On >the tank, or on the bars? I have the eMap in a RAM mount. Pics are on the site. (see sig) >DWO. My only car accident also involved an Asian lady...she stopped for no >apparent reason on an empty acceleration lane. I was looking over my >shoulder for the merge and looked back *almost* in time. I have been rear-ended twice by people doing what you did - assuming I pulled out at a yield (with heavy traffic in my case). Insurance ruled your accident your fault, right? >I see lots of people doing stupid things on the road, but the Asians seem >to be the culprits when it gets so completely idiotic that you just can't >predict it. (note for the logic impaired: this does not mean that all >Asians are bad drivers...just that most of the worst seem to be Asian. I >got the "DWO" (Driving While Oriental) thing from a cop I used to know.) Hey, I didn't mention she was Asian for the DWO comments. I don't stereotype young white males, but they drive like the biggest asses around here. I just mentioned she was Asian to help you picture the scene - she looked very confused and dangerous. Now had it been a ovloV you would hear me stereotyping big time. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 16 12:46:00 2003 Subject: Re: RTW. Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:46:00 -0500 From: To: , Hey I was just in Reston...Rode in for a conference at the Hyatt. Found out it was rescheduled and took the long way back. I thought is was ride to work like a hooligan day, pissed of many a cager this AM. George 02 VFR. >>> Dan Brown 07/16/03 08:05AM >>> Ride to work day forecast on www.wunderground.org says only a 30% chance of showers -- well over break even there. Anyone of the Reston crowd interested in lunch? Say... 11:45 at Tortilla Factory? Not sure how my schedule (damn computers and users) will go today, but I'll see if I can break away for lunch. -- Resist or Serve From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 16 13:04:07 2003 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'DCCycles'" Subject: Ride to work reminder... Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:07:09 -0400 Tall Carl Posted: > Ride to work day is the 16th - this upcoming Wednesday. > "View the complete 12 panel story at www.ridetowork.org." Evil Carl Said: "We should have a ride to work day on January 16th too :-)" Umm, tasty. But Feb 16 would be 6 months difference and offer a better chance for the flaky stuff. EC: "We have 15 Carls on the list?" Olde Carl Comments: Nah, we're just five times more prolix. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 16 13:12:14 2003 Subject: Re: Ride to work reminder... From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 16 Jul 2003 13:07:58 -0400 On Wed, 2003-07-16 at 13:07, Custer, Carl wrote: > Tall Carl Posted: > > Ride to work day is the 16th - this upcoming Wednesday. > > "View the complete 12 panel story at www.ridetowork.org." > > Evil Carl Said: > "We should have a ride to work day on January 16th too :-)" > > Olde Carl Said: > Umm, tasty. But Feb 16 would be 6 months difference and offer a better > chance for the flaky stuff. > Well, I can deal with Feb 15th if you can. You might check your ginko levels though ;-) January is 6 months from July (it _is_ July 16th :-) > EC: "We have 15 Carls on the list?" > > Olde Carl You said it, I didn't ;-) > Comments: Nah, we're just five times more prolix. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 16 13:12:56 2003 Reply-To: wayne@XXXXXX From: "wayne@XXXXXX" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: GPS Mount (was Re: 2 commutes, 3 stories) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:12:50 -0400 I mounted part of the car base for my GPS on the triple clamp using zip ties - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/temp/sm-gps1.jpg I've since moved it over to the right a little more and oriented it N-S instead of E-W. I was using it for speed calibration past what my stock speedo displayed ;-) but I'm now using it for navigation. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ Original Message: ----------------- From: Mike Bartman omni@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 12:16:54 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: 2 commutes, 3 stories. > GPS pegged me at 36.8 in a 35. 8P <----sticking tongue out. Where do you have your GPS mounted? I've got a mount for mine in my Jeep, but I've been thinking that a bike would be a good place to put one. On the tank, or on the bars? -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 16 13:52:04 2003 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:50:57 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: 2 commutes, 3 stories. At 12:30 PM 7/16/03 -0400, Troutman wrote: >At 12:16 PM 7/16/2003, Mike Bartman wrote: >> > GPS pegged me at 36.8 in a 35. 8P <----sticking tongue out. >> >>Where do you have your GPS mounted? I've got a mount for mine in my Jeep, >>but I've been thinking that a bike would be a good place to put one. On >>the tank, or on the bars? > >I have the eMap in a RAM mount. Pics are on the site. (see sig) I'll take a look. Thanks. >>DWO. My only car accident also involved an Asian lady...she stopped for no >>apparent reason on an empty acceleration lane. I was looking over my >>shoulder for the merge and looked back *almost* in time. > >I have been rear-ended twice by people doing what you did - assuming I >pulled out at a yield (with heavy traffic in my case). Insurance ruled >your accident your fault, right? I don't think you are picturing the situation the way it happened, but yes, it was my fault (I ruled it that before anyone else did...I should have expected her to take off, then stop suddenly for no apparent reason). For clarity: the situation was a right turn lane with a yield, followed by several hundred feet of merge lane. She was in front of me at a normal (2 second) following distance. As she rounded the turn at the yield she stopped, and so did I. There was very little traffic coming, and what was coming (a school bus) was going to be gone before she or I got up to speed to merge. She accelerated away into the merge lane. I followed. I turned to check to make sure the lane I was going to merge into was still clear, and when I turned back, she was stopping. There was nothing in front of her, or beside her, or coming up from behind (except me in the same lane). I got off the gas and onto the brake and managed to kill most of the speed before I hit her, but as I said, it was enough to break lights and bend sheet metal. There was no reason for her to stop, but she did anyway. That caused the accident, but it was my fault because I shouldn't have assumed she would drive rationally. I don't anymore...though it frequently pisses off the drivers behind me when I wait until the person ahead of me has actually *gone* before I follow, or leave a really large gap on an on ramp so I have time to look for the merge, and still stop in case the idiot ahead of me decides to brake for hallucinations or whatever. I no longer assume that their taking off means they will continue to take off, even when there's no reason for them to have to stop. >>I see lots of people doing stupid things on the road, but the Asians seem >>to be the culprits when it gets so completely idiotic that you just can't >>predict it. (note for the logic impaired: this does not mean that all >>Asians are bad drivers...just that most of the worst seem to be Asian. I >>got the "DWO" (Driving While Oriental) thing from a cop I used to know.) > >Hey, I didn't mention she was Asian for the DWO comments. I don't >stereotype young white males, but they drive like the biggest asses around >here. Stereotypes exist because there are enough instances to form a pattern. There's nothing wrong with them, so long as you don't assume that any individual fits them even after you get to know them. Young white males do drive poorly a lot of the time, but it's a different sort of poorly from the way older Asians drive much of the time. The young white males tend to go faster than they are capable of handling, cross center dividers on turns (though that's getting common for most drivers around here these days), and drive more aggressively than is wise. I used to be a young white male, and I did some of that too, so I won't argue the stereotype. It's accurate enough. :^) I can predict that sort of thing, and allow for it. I can't predict the totally crazy things I've seen some older Asians do...like the U-turn you reported, the stop-for-no-reason that I was involved with, and a number of other things, like making left turns from the right lane of a 6 lane highway, driving 25 mph on the interstate, backing down an on ramp, etc.. They don't seem to drive fast or do some other dumb things, but the things they do are just so insane that there's no way to predict what they will do. You just have to give them lots of room and try to be ready for anything. >I just mentioned she was Asian to help you picture the scene - she >looked very confused and dangerous. That's typical. They don't drive that way to be aggressive or annoying, they just seem to have a whole different concept of reality sometimes. >Now had it been a ovloV you would hear me stereotyping big time. That too. My impression from almost 30 years of driving is that Volvo drivers are so cautious they are sometimes dangerous. Their first instinct is to hit the brakes no matter what the situation. Sometimes that's a good reaction, but occasionally it makes things far worse, and hitting the gas would prevent a problem. I'm not sure what the ratio is for when one is better than the other, but I've been in several situations over the years where hitting the gas got me clear of a developing problem and prevented it happening at all, while hitting the brakes would have left me right in it, and it would have been ugly. Again, that's the pattern, and may or may not apply to any individual drivers. -- Mike **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 16 13:57:18 2003 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:57:42 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: GPS Mount (was Re: 2 commutes, 3 stories) At 01:12 PM 7/16/03 -0400, wayne@XXXXXX wrote: >I mounted part of the car base for my GPS on the triple clamp using zip >ties - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/temp/sm-gps1.jpg > >I've since moved it over to the right a little more and oriented it N-S >instead of E-W. I was using it for speed calibration past what my >stock speedo displayed ;-) but I'm now using it for navigation. Cool! I like Troutman's Ram mount too...pretty slick and it looks very useful. I'll have to check into those. -- Mike **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 16 14:07:23 2003 Subject: Re: 2 commutes, 3 stories. From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 16 Jul 2003 14:03:06 -0400 On Wed, 2003-07-16 at 13:50, Mike Bartman wrote: > I no longer assume that > their taking off means they will continue to take off, even when there's no > reason for them to have to stop. > I've seen several accidents where the second car assumes that because the road is clear, the first car has left and takes off, hitting the rear of the car in front who has decided to retrieve their donut or cell phone on the seat. I make it a habit to simply watch the car in front of me and when they leave, _then_ I look to the left and see if it's clear. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 16 14:22:42 2003 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:23:16 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: 2 commutes, 3 stories. At 02:03 PM 7/16/03 -0400, Carl Schelin wrote: >On Wed, 2003-07-16 at 13:50, Mike Bartman wrote: > >> I no longer assume that >> their taking off means they will continue to take off, even when there's no >> reason for them to have to stop. >> > >I've seen several accidents where the second car assumes that because >the road is clear, the first car has left and takes off, hitting the >rear of the car in front who has decided to retrieve their donut or cell >phone on the seat. > >I make it a habit to simply watch the car in front of me and when they >leave, _then_ I look to the left and see if it's clear. At a normal turn, that's fine and good. With a merge lane it's bad, but necessary. It decreases the potential traffic flow (i.e. holds up traffic), but since there are idiot drivers out there, it's necessary to avoid accidents. I do that too...now. -- Mike **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 16 14:32:42 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: 2 commutes, 3 stories. Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:32:35 -0400 > On Wed, 2003-07-16 at 13:50, Mike Bartman wrote: > > > I no longer assume that > > their taking off means they will continue to take off, even when there's no > > reason for them to have to stop. That's smart. Just because a yield sign doesn't require a stop, doesn't mean it precludes one. The driver of the car in front proceeds when he or she decides it is safe, not when the driver of the car behind does. I was rear ended on my motorcycle in a similar fashion. I was waiting to make a right turn on red. The Jeep behind me decided the gap in traffic was big enough, assumed I would go, and smashed my left rear saddle bag (along with a few other things). Not my fault, and not the woman's fault in your accident. Bob From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 16 14:43:07 2003 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:43:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Subject: Re: GPS Mount (was Re: 2 commutes, 3 stories) To: Mike Bartman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX I have mine (Garmin eMap) on a RAM mount too. In fact, I use the RAM mount for my Smart Tag too. Since I own a bike with a handlebar (SV650), I got the u-shaped bar mount set and the eMap bracket. This left me with an unused round flat base that I now use for the Smart Tag. The RAM mount is one of the (if not THE) best made, most useful motorcycle accessory I've purchased to date, with the possible exception of a Sargent seat I got for the old VTR. Chris Weaver --- Mike Bartman wrote: > Cool! I like Troutman's Ram mount too...pretty > slick and it looks very > useful. > I'll have to check into those. > > -- Mike __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 16 16:10:49 2003 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:09:13 -0400 To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Re: 2 commutes, 3 stories. At 02:32 PM 7/16/03 -0400, Bob Meyer wrote: > >> On Wed, 2003-07-16 at 13:50, Mike Bartman wrote: >> >> > I no longer assume that >> > their taking off means they will continue to take off, even when there's no >> > reason for them to have to stop. > >That's smart. Just because a yield sign doesn't require a stop, doesn't mean it precludes one. The driver of the car in front proceeds when he or she decides it is safe, not when the driver of the car behind does. That's not a problem. The problem came when the driver in front made the turn and started to accelerate away in the merge lane, then stopped. I'd seen her go, started to follow, turned to check for the merge, then looked back to find her in front of me, rather than headed on down the road. There was only about a car length left at that point, but I cut the speed some anyway, just not enough to avoid the collision. >I was rear ended on my motorcycle in a similar fashion. I was waiting to make a right turn on red. The Jeep behind me decided the gap in traffic was big enough, assumed I would go, and smashed my left rear saddle bag (along with a few other things). Not my fault, and not the woman's fault in your accident. That wasn't your fault in that case. My accident is arguable from a rationality standpoint, but the law tends to assume that the driver in the back is always at fault, no matter what crazy things the driver in front does. The only alternative for me was to drive in such a way that I slowed down traffic flow by waiting until she had gone before making the turn and using the acceleration lane. That's what I do now, and screw anyone behind me who wonders why I'm not moving... -- Mike **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 16 16:44:12 2003 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:44:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Larry Larson Subject: Re: Ride to work reminder... To: "Custer, Carl" , "'DCCycles'" --- "Custer, Carl" wrote: > Olde Carl Comments: Nah, we're just five times more > prolix. Prolix does sound much classier than verbose or palaverous. Unfortunately, it also sounds like a prescription drug, perhaps one of those new tongue-enhancement viagra offshoots. The "e" at the end is a nice touch, though. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 16 16:46:33 2003 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:46:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Larry Larson Subject: Re: 2 commutes, 3 stories. To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Carl Schelin wrote: > I make it a habit to simply watch the car in front of me > and when they > leave, _then_ I look to the left and see if it's clear. I watch the car behind me, in my mirror. When they look left, or reach back for the donut or cell phone, I back up into 'em and claim they rear-ended me. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 16 17:05:39 2003 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 17:05:59 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: 2 commutes, 3 stories. At 01:46 PM 7/16/03 -0700, Larry Larson wrote: >--- Carl Schelin wrote: >> I make it a habit to simply watch the car in front of me >> and when they >> leave, _then_ I look to the left and see if it's clear. > >I watch the car behind me, in my mirror. When they look >left, or reach back for the donut or cell phone, I back up >into 'em and claim they rear-ended me. > >-- Larry I'm new here, but I can see already that you're a hoot, Larry. :^) -- Mike "do I need a prescription to get Prolix?" Bartman -- **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 16 17:16:28 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 17:15:58 EDT Subject: Re: HOV Violators be damned To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/16/2003 11:19:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time, omni@XXXXXX writes: > I've always thought that we should institute "National Highway Freedom > Day", where once a year for 24 hours there are NO TRAFFIC LAWS AT ALL on > the interstate highways. And that would be different from every other day how? John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 16 17:32:16 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 17:31:43 EDT Subject: Re: DC Speed Cameras To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/16/2003 12:06:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, omni@XXXXXX writes: > why not just obey it? It's not an unreasonable law... Sniffs the bait, smells the bullshit, swims away. Aincha proud of me? John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 16 18:10:10 2003 From: "Michael Jordan" To: Subject: Re: GPS Mount (was Re: 2 commutes, 3 stories) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 18:10:04 -0400 > The RAM mount is one of the (if not THE) best made, > most useful motorcycle accessory I've purchased to > date I'll second that - positions your stuff where you need it, doesn't move around and provides vibration isolation. I've been using them for about 2 years now. Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 16 18:48:47 2003 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 18:48:44 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: DC Speed Cameras To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >> why not just obey it? It's not an unreasonable law... > >Sniffs the bait, smells the bullshit, swims away. >Aincha proud of me? [Dave] Smarter than the aaaaaaverage bear ! Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 16 19:18:21 2003 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:13:10 -0400 From: Carl Parker To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" , mike@XXXXXX Subject: Re: 2 commutes, 3 stories. Hmmmm...Buicks come before ovloV's on my list but not by much. The people in Buicks are just utterly mindless in their driving bubble but the ovloV drivers are paying some attention z'just they just don't give a damn. Either way...it's got you chomping at the bit. Trout-dude sed: >Now had it been a ovloV you would hear me stereotyping big time. -Carlo From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 16 19:25:08 2003 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:20:06 -0400 From: Carl Parker To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Ride to work reminder... Yes, all is according to plan...soon Carl's will RULE THE WORLD!!! MUAHAHHAHAWAHAHAHAHAH! Oh wait that's supposed to be the Evil Carl's line. Don't be slackin' man! ;) I suppose I'll just sit back and watch the Carl-works then. Carl P.S. - I had to look up prolix. > Olde Carl Said: > Umm, tasty. But Feb 16 would be 6 months difference and offer a better > chance for the flaky stuff. > Well, I can deal with Feb 15th if you can. You might check your ginko levels though ;-) January is 6 months from July (it _is_ July 16th :-) > EC: "We have 15 Carls on the list?" > > Olde Carl You said it, I didn't ;-) > Comments: Nah, we're just five times more prolix. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 16 22:50:44 2003 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:50:15 -0700 (PDT) From: David Fruehwald Subject: Tire Question To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I have some Dunlop D220 tires on my ZR-7 with about 9,000 miles on them. How do I tell if I'm nearing or past time to do some replacing. I'm thinking of a long trip and want to do it on tires with some life left :-) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 00:46:36 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: David Fruehwald , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Tire Question Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 23:47:21 -0500 There is a wear bar on most tires. It's a horizontal line on the tire and if you can see it through the tread it's time to get new tires. Rob On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:50:15 -0700 (PDT), David Fruehwald wrote > I have some Dunlop D220 tires on my ZR-7 with about > 9,000 miles on them. How do I tell if I'm nearing or > past time to do some replacing. I'm thinking of a > long trip and want to do it on tires with some life > left :-) > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > http://sbc.yahoo.com -- Rob Sharp SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 06:12:17 2003 Subject: Re: Ride to work reminder... From: Carl Schelin To: Carl Parker Cc: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Date: 17 Jul 2003 06:07:58 -0400 http://www.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html See item 20. That's why I'm Evil Overlord Carl and you're just one of the higher minions of Carl who is a higher minion because you're called Carl. Evil Overlord Carl On Wed, 2003-07-16 at 19:20, Carl Parker wrote: > Yes, all is according to plan...soon Carl's will RULE THE WORLD!!! > MUAHAHHAHAWAHAHAHAHAH! > > Oh wait that's supposed to be the Evil Carl's line. Don't be slackin' > man! ;) > > I suppose I'll just sit back and watch the Carl-works then. > > Carl > > P.S. - I had to look up prolix. > > > Olde Carl Said: > > Umm, tasty. But Feb 16 would be 6 months difference and offer a > better > > chance for the flaky stuff. > > > > Well, I can deal with Feb 15th if you can. You might check your ginko > levels though ;-) January is 6 months from July (it _is_ July 16th :-) > > > EC: "We have 15 Carls on the list?" > > > > Olde Carl > > You said it, I didn't ;-) > > > Comments: Nah, we're just five times more prolix. > > Carl > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 06:22:08 2003 Subject: Coleman's From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 17 Jul 2003 06:17:53 -0400 Well sometimes something good comes out of Coleman's in Woodbridge. While I was in getting my bike inspected last month, I noticed a flyer for a "New Rider" seminar being held at the two Coleman's. One of the features is a MSF Instructor. I had Rita sign up, mainly for the MSF reference. So last night was her seminar and she dragged me along. Brad, one of the Coleman guys from Falls Church went through all the basic stuff. Engine types, drive trains, brakes, and mainly how to determine what first bike to look for based on your intended driving habits. At the end, he gave out coupon booklets with, generally 15% off of various items; helmets, boots, jackets, etc. Free t-shirt, spark plugs (with tune-up) and bungee net (with $10 purchase). One of the coupons was a free VA inspection, funny enough with an expiration of 1 year from the seminar date. They also had a $180 discount off of your bike purchase (titled twice the cost of the MSF off of your first bike). So the MSF guy came up at the end of the class and discussed it. The most interesting thing was that the Alexandria NOVA campus has opened up a new MSF class date, July 30th in the evening and July 31st and Aug 1st during the day. He said it wasn't announced to the public yet and since we attended the seminar, we had first shot at a slot. Rita signed up right then. But I'm also letting you folks know. Shhh, it's a secret but there's a MSF class opening up. Later, Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 06:51:29 2003 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 06:50:14 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Carl Schelin CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Coleman's Carl Schelin wrote: > Well sometimes something good comes out of Coleman's in Woodbridge. > > While I was in getting my bike inspected last month, I noticed a flyer > for a "New Rider" seminar being held at the two Coleman's. One of the > features is a MSF Instructor. > > I had Rita sign up, mainly for the MSF reference. > > So last night was her seminar and she dragged me along. Brad, one of the > Coleman guys from Falls Church went through all the basic stuff. Engine > types, drive trains, brakes, and mainly how to determine what first bike > to look for based on your intended driving habits. > > At the end, he gave out coupon booklets with, generally 15% off of > various items; helmets, boots, jackets, etc. Free t-shirt, spark plugs > (with tune-up) and bungee net (with $10 purchase). > > One of the coupons was a free VA inspection, funny enough with an > expiration of 1 year from the seminar date. > > They also had a $180 discount off of your bike purchase (titled twice > the cost of the MSF off of your first bike). > > So the MSF guy came up at the end of the class and discussed it. The > most interesting thing was that the Alexandria NOVA campus has opened up > a new MSF class date, July 30th in the evening and July 31st and Aug 1st > during the day. > > He said it wasn't announced to the public yet and since we attended the > seminar, we had first shot at a slot. Rita signed up right then. > > But I'm also letting you folks know. Shhh, it's a secret but there's a > MSF class opening up. > > Later, > > Carl I could be wrong, but methinks this is a "contract" class with Colemans, so eagar newbies might want to visit Colemans to get on board. Note: Colemans has been providing lunch to the students on the weekend Alexandria BRC class sessions. Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 07:04:03 2003 Subject: Re: Coleman's From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 17 Jul 2003 06:59:47 -0400 On Thu, 2003-07-17 at 06:50, William J. Huson wrote: > Carl Schelin wrote: > > > > > But I'm also letting you folks know. Shhh, it's a secret but there's a > > MSF class opening up. > > > > Later, > > > > Carl > > I could be wrong, but methinks this is a "contract" class with Colemans, so > eagar newbies might want to visit Colemans to get on board. > I think you're wrong. The instructor said it hadn't been announced to the public yet which led me to believe it was a new class being staged. I'm not saying Coleman's didn't have something to do with it but it couldn't hurt to check with the campus if you're trying to get into the class before next year. > Note: Colemans has been providing lunch to the students on the weekend > Alexandria BRC class sessions. > The guy said that Coleman's worked with the bike manufacturers to get bikes for the class in the proportion they're being sold at Coleman's (more cruisers then sport bikes). I'm sure there's a tie in but I don't think it's exclusive to Coleman's. And I could be wrong too. > Bill > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 07:31:40 2003 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 07:30:35 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Carl Schelin CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Coleman's Carl Schelin wrote: > On Thu, 2003-07-17 at 06:50, William J. Huson wrote: > > Carl Schelin wrote: > > > > > > > > But I'm also letting you folks know. Shhh, it's a secret but there's a > > > MSF class opening up. > > > > > > Later, > > > > > > Carl > > > > I could be wrong, but methinks this is a "contract" class with Colemans, so > > eagar newbies might want to visit Colemans to get on board. > > > > I think you're wrong. The instructor said it hadn't been announced to > the public yet which led me to believe it was a new class being staged. > I'm not saying Coleman's didn't have something to do with it but it > couldn't hurt to check with the campus if you're trying to get into the > class before next year. > > > Note: Colemans has been providing lunch to the students on the weekend > > Alexandria BRC class sessions. > > > > The guy said that Coleman's worked with the bike manufacturers to get > bikes for the class in the proportion they're being sold at Coleman's > (more cruisers then sport bikes). I'm sure there's a tie in but I don't > think it's exclusive to Coleman's. > > And I could be wrong too. You're probably on target RE registration for the class. Most of the Ridercoachs at Alex decry having a short class and will try to pump it up to a full class of 24 students. We have had half classes (12) and a few contract classes of 6 with one Ridercoach. Those were run in the evening with many exercises done under the parking lot lights. I volunteered to help out on one mini-class last week and after putting the bikes to bed I checked the time - a few minutes before 11! The next morning I'm up at 5:15 to head for the range and my class... Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 09:13:52 2003 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 06:13:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Subject: Re: Tire Question To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX You should also keep an eye out for dry rot - small, spiderweb cracks appearing between treads and/or on the sidewall. That's a clear indication you need new rubber. In theory, once the wear bar is even with the treads, you should replace the tire. If you do a lot of commuting or aren't a very agressive rider, you may also find a big flat spot appearing down the center of the tire. If this gets very pronounced, the handling will suffer and you might consider replacing the tire even if the wear bars haven't quite been reached. Cheers, Chris Weaver --- Rob Sharp wrote: > There is a wear bar on most tires. It's a > horizontal line on the tire and if > you can see it through the tread it's time to get > new tires. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 09:32:38 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:32:20 EDT Subject: Re: Tire Question To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Define "long trip" for some it is 100mi. for others 10 or 20,000mi. It makes a difference. If you are planning to go more then a few thousand I would replace it under any circumstances, just for security, why worry. For a couple of hundred.... well then total wear is a factor. Are you riding with a heavy load? Two up? High speeds? All will affect your tire wear. Run proper pressure as per the _motorcycle_ manufacturers recommendations for load, not the "maximum" pressure (for beading) on the tire sidewall. _Nothing_ will wear a tire out faster then improper pressure. If you choose to put a new tire on your bike (or _any_ other mechanical work) prior to your trip have it done a couple of hundred miles _before_ you leave. This will give problems time to show up and be corrected before you leave. Nothing worse then finding out something was left loose during the work when you are out in the middle of nowhere. Enjoy the ride. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 10:12:28 2003 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:07:22 -0400 From: Carl Parker To: Carl Schelin CC: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Ride to work reminder... Item 20: >20.Despite its proven stress-relieving effect, I will not indulge in maniacal laughter. When so >occupied, it's too easy to miss unexpected developments that a more attentive individual could >adjust to accordingly. Dude, I don't believe that you abstain from a life life rich with maniacal laughter! Maniacal laughter is to evil like smelling the roses is to our proverbial journey through life. You know..."On the road of evil be sure to stop and laugh maniacally." Then look at this one... >6.I will not gloat over my enemies' predicament before killing them. Sounds like you're a pretty good guy fur' sumone who'z s'posed to be so evil. Maybe it's all a front for a Good Samaritan Mafia. ;) Burrp... - Carlo Carl Schelin wrote: > http://www.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html > > See item 20. > > That's why I'm Evil Overlord Carl and you're just one of the higher > minions of Carl who is a higher minion because you're called Carl. > > Evil Overlord Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 10:35:00 2003 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:33:53 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Tire Question Excellant advice. Many moons ago I left on a multi-thousand mile putt with a suspect rear tire, assuring Milady it had a couple thousand miles of treadwear left. Less than 60 miles from home, in the rain, the damn thing let go on a sweeper turn, causing major anal pucker. Extra cautious, I motored on to MI and then down to TN where I limped in to a Harley dealer and threw a wad of cash at them for a new shoe and brake pucks. Milady was much pleased when I got down to the Outer Banks and she spied the new tire. Of course I didn't reveal the anal pucker incident :-) Bill PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > Define "long trip" for some it is 100mi. for others 10 or 20,000mi. It makes > a difference. > If you are planning to go more then a few thousand I would replace it under > any circumstances, just for security, why worry. For a couple of hundred.... > well then total wear is a factor. > Are you riding with a heavy load? Two up? High speeds? All will affect your > tire wear. > Run proper pressure as per the _motorcycle_ manufacturers recommendations for > load, not the "maximum" pressure (for beading) on the tire sidewall. > _Nothing_ will wear a tire out faster then improper pressure. > If you choose to put a new tire on your bike (or _any_ other mechanical work) > prior to your trip have it done a couple of hundred miles _before_ you leave. > This will give problems time to show up and be corrected before you leave. > Nothing worse then finding out something was left loose during the work when you > are out in the middle of nowhere. > Enjoy the ride. > > John Walters (Long John) > PenguinBiker@XXXXXX > Up near DC > > Honda ST1100X Pan European > BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles > Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 10:42:14 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:41:57 EDT Subject: Re: Tire Question To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/17/2003 10:35:16 AM Eastern Daylight Time, bhuson@XXXXXX writes: > causing major anal pucker. I have built up enough anal muscle that way to hurt a proctologist badly. :-0 John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 10:42:56 2003 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 07:42:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Lurking Subject: Hey! I resent that! To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Hey, I didn't mention she was Asian for the DWO comments. I don't >stereotype young white males, but they drive like the biggest asses around >here. I just mentioned she was Asian to help you picture the scene - she >looked very confused and dangerous. Now had it been a ovloV you would hear >me stereotyping big time. Hey! My cage is a Volvo! I love it, very comfy but also a pretty fast car. 235hp with the turbo inline 5, "only" 3,300 lbs. My bike is a 1986 Yamaha Radian 600. I drive my Volvo fairly well, no tickets in the Volvo at all. It is invisible to the cops usually. Much less likely to get pulled over in the Volvo than my previous two cages (a 1988 Camaro, and a 2000 Subaru Impreza 2.5RS). Anyway, don't stereotype anyone. I will have to agree that many of the people to perform driving manuevers that deserve a whipping are Asian. I've been almost clobbered by a few older Asian women in my lifetime. Of my two accidents involving other vehicles, one was very similar to the rear-ender story posted here yesterday. A white lady, cuts into the left lane from the slow moving right lane and proceeds to slam on her brakes to stop (for no reason!). Then gets pissed at me for running into the back of her. Because she had just basically cut me off (moving from the slow moving lane into the fast lane), I hadn't had anytime to adjust my following distance (plus she was already travelling much slower than I). Of course, I was found at fault because I hit her rear. It's really idiotic that pretty much all rear end collisions are automatically put down as the fault of the following car. I agree, most of them are (seems that most drivers simply don't know, or don't care, what the correct following distance is). Anyway, just another lesson that you've got to stay ALERT out there and drive and ride super defensively. Who knows what idiots lurk behind the wheels of the huge steel killing machines pounding our beautiful pavement... -Kipp. 1998 Volvo S70 T5 cage 1986 Yamaha Radian 600 "cafe-racer" ===== "An evil exists that threatens every man, woman and child of this great nation...We must take steps to ensure our domestic security and protect our homeland." -Adolf Hitler __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 10:45:53 2003 Subject: Re: Tire Question From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 17 Jul 2003 10:41:34 -0400 On Thu, 2003-07-17 at 10:33, William J. Huson wrote: > Excellant advice. Many moons ago I left on a multi-thousand mile putt with a > suspect rear tire, assuring Milady it had a couple thousand miles of treadwear > left. Less than 60 miles from home, in the rain, the damn thing let go on a sweeper > turn, causing major anal pucker. Extra cautious, I motored on to MI and then down > to TN where I limped in to a Harley dealer and threw a wad of cash at them for a new > shoe and brake pucks. Milady was much pleased when I got down to the Outer Banks and > she spied the new tire. Of course I didn't reveal the anal pucker incident :-) > 'til now ;-) > Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 10:47:48 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:47:33 EDT Subject: Re: Hey! I resent that! To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/17/2003 10:43:29 AM Eastern Daylight Time, lurking444@XXXXXX writes: > >Hey, I didn't mention she was Asian for the DWO comments. I don't > >stereotype young white males, Hell all cagers look alike to me. Big, hard, dangerous. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 10:48:49 2003 Subject: Re: Ride to work reminder... From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 17 Jul 2003 10:44:34 -0400 On Thu, 2003-07-17 at 10:07, Carl Parker wrote: > Item 20: > >20.Despite its proven stress-relieving effect, I will not indulge in > maniacal laughter. When so >occupied, it's too easy to miss unexpected > developments that a more attentive individual could > >adjust to accordingly. > > Dude, I don't believe that you abstain from a life life rich with maniacal > laughter! Maniacal laughter is to evil like smelling the roses is to our > proverbial journey through life. You know..."On the road of evil be sure to > stop and laugh maniacally." > I don't necessarily abstain. More like curtail. Of course that's why you'll be my upper minion Carl and I'm Evil Overlord Carl }-) > Then look at this one... > >6.I will not gloat over my enemies' predicament before killing them. > > Sounds like you're a pretty good guy fur' sumone who'z s'posed to be so > evil. Maybe it's all a front for a Good Samaritan Mafia. ;) > It's all an evil plot }-) > Burrp... yer excused. > - Carlo > > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 10:53:33 2003 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 07:53:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Hey! I resent that! To: Lurking , dc-cycles@XXXXXX The other great thing about Volvos is they last forever (atleast the 70s-90s models). If you want a reliable old car (cheap) get a mid-80s Volvo. --- Lurking wrote: > >Hey, I didn't mention she was Asian for the DWO > comments. I don't > >stereotype young white males, but they drive like > the biggest asses around > >here. I just mentioned she was Asian to help you > picture the scene - she > >looked very confused and dangerous. Now had it > been a ovloV you would hear > >me stereotyping big time. > > Hey! My cage is a Volvo! I love it, very comfy but > also a pretty fast car. 235hp with the > turbo inline 5, "only" 3,300 lbs. My bike is a 1986 > Yamaha Radian 600. I drive my Volvo > fairly well, no tickets in the Volvo at all. It is > invisible to the cops usually. Much > less likely to get pulled over in the Volvo than my > previous two cages (a 1988 Camaro, and > a 2000 Subaru Impreza 2.5RS). Anyway, don't > stereotype anyone. I will have to agree that > many of the people to perform driving manuevers that > deserve a whipping are Asian. I've > been almost clobbered by a few older Asian women in > my lifetime. > > Of my two accidents involving other vehicles, one > was very similar to the rear-ender story > posted here yesterday. A white lady, cuts into the > left lane from the slow moving right > lane and proceeds to slam on her brakes to stop (for > no reason!). Then gets pissed at me > for running into the back of her. Because she had > just basically cut me off (moving from > the slow moving lane into the fast lane), I hadn't > had anytime to adjust my following > distance (plus she was already travelling much > slower than I). Of course, I was found at > fault because I hit her rear. It's really idiotic > that pretty much all rear end collisions > are automatically put down as the fault of the > following car. I agree, most of them are > (seems that most drivers simply don't know, or don't > care, what the correct following > distance is). Anyway, just another lesson that > you've got to stay ALERT out there and > drive and ride super defensively. Who knows what > idiots lurk behind the wheels of the huge > steel killing machines pounding our beautiful > pavement... > > -Kipp. > 1998 Volvo S70 T5 cage > 1986 Yamaha Radian 600 "cafe-racer" > > ===== > "An evil exists that threatens every man, woman and > child of this great > nation...We must take steps to ensure our domestic > security and protect > our homeland." -Adolf Hitler > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > http://sbc.yahoo.com > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 10:59:04 2003 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:07:39 -0400 (EDT) From: dan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Hey! I resent that! On Thu, 17 Jul 2003, Mark Kitchell wrote: > The other great thing about Volvos is they last > forever (atleast the 70s-90s models). If you want a > reliable old car (cheap) get a mid-80s Volvo. I'd love to have an older 240 or 740 with a 5.0 conversion, it would be so much fun to spank the Fast and Furious crowd with a grocery getter. Almost got runover today by a fine Volvo driver sipping on her latte and driving in both lanes on the Reston parkway... stupid c*nt. Dan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 11:18:14 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: Subject: #661 race Hawk at Summit? Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:18:58 -0400 Does anyone know any information about who (or the bike itself, really) raced a Hawk GT at Summit Point with the plate #661? If you have any info at all, please let me know. Thanks, Mike 96 VFR 88 Hawk 76 CB400F From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 11:41:12 2003 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:40:06 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: dan CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Hey! I resent that! dan wrote: > On Thu, 17 Jul 2003, Mark Kitchell wrote: > > > The other great thing about Volvos is they last > > forever (atleast the 70s-90s models). If you want a > > reliable old car (cheap) get a mid-80s Volvo. > > I'd love to have an older 240 or 740 with a 5.0 conversion, it would be so > much fun to spank the Fast and Furious crowd with a grocery getter. > Almost got runover today by a fine Volvo driver sipping on her latte and > driving in both lanes on the Reston parkway... stupid c*nt. > > Dan Damn skippy! An aquaintence in Ohio has one of those sqaurish looking Volvo station wagon, yaer unknown to me but she ain't new. Has turbocharger and wagonload of modified mecahanical and electronic gizmos to make it blow smoke all over the competition. The dude is like 40+ and gets a giggle outta dusting the chip-tuner kids and big block `Murican hot rods with his sedate appearing Volvo. we called such rigs "sleepers" in my day... Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 11:53:58 2003 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:53:48 -0700 (PDT) From: matthew patton Subject: Re: Tire Question To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- chris_vtr@XXXXXX wrote: > you should replace the tire. If you do a lot of > commuting or aren't a very agressive rider, you may > also find a big flat spot appearing down the center of > the tire. If this gets very pronounced, the handling > will suffer and you might consider replacing the tire > even if the wear bars haven't quite been reached. normally you'll reach the wear bars in the middle of the tire. But to recontour the tire, put the bike on the stand, take a wood plane or something like a cheese grater and shave little curls off the ridge till it's a little more rounded. If you do this by having the motor spinning the back wheel, well, beware of your fingers. Or simply schedule yourself for an outing to CLifton to wear the tire round again. ===== * Love, not time, heals all wounds. * No one is perfect until you fall in love with them. And then when they aren't perfect anymore, love makes them perfect again. * Everyone wants to live on top of the mountain, but all the happiness and growth occurs while you're climbing it * You can not forgive unless you first love. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 12:03:24 2003 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:55:18 -0400 To: dan , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Hey! I resent that! At 12:07 PM 7/17/03 -0400, dan wrote: >On Thu, 17 Jul 2003, Mark Kitchell wrote: > >> The other great thing about Volvos is they last >> forever (atleast the 70s-90s models). If you want a >> reliable old car (cheap) get a mid-80s Volvo. > >I'd love to have an older 240 or 740 with a 5.0 conversion, it would be so >much fun to spank the Fast and Furious crowd with a grocery getter. The older Volvos are also pretty crash-worthy. I was in the middle of a wreck once (didn't get hit much myself) where a Toyota Corolla Wagon realized too late that she couldn't change lanes to avoid a stoppage, and had to brake in what distance remained. There wasn't enough of it. She hit a '78 Volvo hard enough to push it into my car, which was stopped in front of it (behind a long line of stopped cars). I got a minor bumper dent in my '72 Capri, the Toyota was seriously damaged (radiator fluid leaking onto the road, headlights staring at each other, front suspension bent, etc.), but the Volvo appeared fine other than some headlamp glass embedded in the rubber strip on the rear bumper. The driver (8 months pregnant) and her aged mother were unhurt. The Toyota driver wasn't hurt much either, amazingly. Just a leg cut from where she hit her CB mount. -- Mike **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 12:21:09 2003 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:20:10 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Hey! I resent that! At 11:40 AM 7/17/03 -0400, William J. Huson wrote: >dan wrote: >> I'd love to have an older 240 or 740 with a 5.0 conversion, it would be so >> much fun to spank the Fast and Furious crowd with a grocery getter. >> Almost got runover today by a fine Volvo driver sipping on her latte and >> driving in both lanes on the Reston parkway... stupid c*nt. > >Damn skippy! An aquaintence in Ohio has one of those sqaurish looking Volvo >station wagon, yaer unknown to me but she ain't new. Has turbocharger and >wagonload of modified mecahanical and electronic gizmos to make it blow smoke >all over the competition. The dude is like 40+ and gets a giggle outta >dusting the chip-tuner kids and big block `Murican hot rods with his sedate >appearing Volvo. > >we called such rigs "sleepers" in my day... I once had a roommate with a '63 Rambler Classic with an old Earl Shives $29.95 paint job and about 150,000 miles on it. It was from the last part of the model year when they'd switched from an inline 6 to a small V8 to try to escape the "Lead Sled" nickname they'd gotten. When his engine wore out, he got a 327 V8 from a '64 Rambler (they really didn't like that nickname! :^) and put that in. When the new engine ripped his clutch in half (the pressure plate sheared so that the friction part and the part with the spring were no longer connected) he replaced it with a racing clutch. When he then spun the last of the tread off of his "Maypops" he got Bridgestone radials on chrome mags. When those kept hitting the fenders, he first tried Gabriel Hi-Jacker air shocks, which helped, but then "flared" them with a hacksaw and Vicegrips...looked like a mad can opener had attacked it. That's about the time the exhaust system blew out from the pressure...which he "fixed" with empty soup cans, hose clamps and muffler sealant around the pipe joints. His pushrods were so bent that even after he replaced 6 of the worst ones, it still sounded like there was a dwarf with a ballpeen hammer trying to get out of his engine. It leaked oil too. Despite all that, he could still get from one light to the next, and be stopped, before the Mustang Mach I's got there. I was with him once when he pulled onto the interstate and managed to miss seeing a Mac Semi until he was already in front of it...he punched it, and I'm sure we pulled a couple of Gs. I sank into that bench front seat several inches anyway, and the Semi never really got all that close before we were doing 85 and leaving it behind. Performance was nothing compared to a modern street racer, but it was pretty impressive for a worn out granny car. :^) -- Mike **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 12:32:07 2003 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:31:54 -0400 From: LilBkrBabe@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Sabre for Sale, $1500 I believe it's a late 80's model with low mileage. Of course I don't know the details. For more info send a note to Doug at Gotfixed2@XXXXXX. He's a master tech, so I guarantee that the bike is well above average mechanical and physical condition. Ride safe! babe From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 13:45:19 2003 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:45:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Bikes AND Nudity! To: DC Cycles What more could you want? Real Video. (-: http://www.eurosport.com/static_filesV2/asp/zones/V3/multim/popup/Player_Container.asp?LangueID=0&VideoID=12403&SportID=39&StoryID=457861 ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 13:46:05 2003 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:46:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Bikes AND Nudity! To: DC Cycles What more could you want? Real Video. (-: http://www.eurosport.com/static_filesV2/asp/zones/V3/multim/popup/Player_Container.asp?LangueID=0&VideoID=12403&SportID=39&StoryID=457861 ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 14:20:57 2003 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:20:30 -0400 From: Dale Horstman To: Carl Schelin CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Coleman's Carl Schelin wrote: > > But I'm also letting you folks know. Shhh, it's a secret but there's a > MSF class opening up. Dang, you Carls of the world really are taking over, aren't ya? Hork -- Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark) Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX "My ambition in life is to Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth minimize my stress level." CM #001 NRA IBA COG '98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer '99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi '82 Suzuki GS850G - Neat old bike From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 15:03:03 2003 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:01:14 -0400 From: avraam jack dectis To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Coleman's Carl Schelin wrote: >The instructor said it hadn't been announced to >the public yet which led me to believe it was a new class being staged. >I'm not saying Coleman's didn't have something to do with it but it >couldn't hurt to check with the campus if you're trying to get into the >class before next year. > > Thanks for the tip! I looked up NOVA in the phone book and there are several campuses and many phone numbers. Do you know where at NOVA to call for the class? What do the classes normally go for approximately? . From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 17:12:34 2003 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: lisagoddard@XXXXXX Subject: another bike club Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:47:19 GMT from the Gazette Jewish bike club hits the roads http://www.gazette.net/200329/potomac/news/168062-1.html Lisa Goddard '95 VFR www.motorcycleleatherexchange.com --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 17:28:10 2003 From: "Brad Kragness" To: Subject: Mini - dilemma (acutally kinda long though) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:26:21 -0400 Hi everyone, My name is Brad. I ride bikes. I don't do too much work on bikes. Here's the situation: my girlfriend is taking her MSF course soon, and we bought her a 1983 Honda Shadow 750 (pretty cheap). I have a Kawasaki Concours, and when I brought it to my local dealer for inspection, it was cheap and I was on the road after a couple weeks. This bike, though, needs more work. To pass MD inspection, they said they have the following problems: Petcock leaks Carbs Leak Choke doesn't work Mufflers rusted A muffler joint leaks Grease boots on front calipers are torn Tires need to be replaced Horns not loud enough Not related to the inspection are the following: Clutch slips Clutch fluid leaking from reservoir Tach doesn't work (actually, when I drove it home, it worked, so it must be intermittent) The main problem is that the bill to have the dealer (Honda of Crofton) do the work is $1452.00 for parts and labor. Now my girlfriend thinks she might not want the bike, and is kind of worried that there might be many more problems even if we fix what is wrong. I like the bike, and have done some pricing: To order everything (including clutch parts but not tachometer) from Ron Ayers is $573.66, which is much more manageable. With a cheap exhaust from Dennis Kirk and no clutch parts it would be about $360.00 to pass inspection and be safe (I didn't notice the clutch slip, but the mechanic must have). My question is: What do you all think about the repairs that need to be done? If they are not too difficult, I have faith that I can do them with the right tools. Would you? Not the right question I guess. Should we just get rid of the bike and start with a new one? Well, I appreciate your time for reading this, and am looking for any feedback (even "Why'd you buy a bike that needed work dumbass?" is ok ;) Thanks, Brad Kragness '94 Concours Odenton, MD PS - If there is anyone out there willing to help, I will buy beer, pizza, jewelry, motorcycle gear, magazine subscriptions, candy bars from your kids, etc. I will even pay someone to help me learn and fix it ;) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 18:11:12 2003 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:10:10 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: avraam jack dectis CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Coleman's avraam jack dectis wrote: > Carl Schelin wrote: > > >The instructor said it hadn't been announced to > >the public yet which led me to believe it was a > new class being staged. > >I'm not saying Coleman's didn't have something > to do with it but it > >couldn't hurt to check with the campus if you're > trying to get into the > >class before next year. > > > > > > Thanks for the tip! I looked up NOVA in the phone > book and there are several campuses and many phone > numbers. Do you know where at NOVA to call for the > class? > What do the classes normally go for approximately? The clas under discussion is at The Alexandria campus. Contact the Continuing Education Dept RE motorcycle class. Cost, $90. Time commitment, Wednesday night the 30th, and all day on the 31st and 1st. Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 18:18:52 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: "'Brad Kragness'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Mini - dilemma (actually kinda long though) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:19:46 -0400 You know, I hate seeing this. Unfortunately this dealer is raking you. Not sure about MD, but can you take that thing to a gas station and get an inspection? If you already are used to riding a bike, you must have *some* level of mechanical competence. Can you follow the service manual? Anyway, some questions for clarification: Petcock leaks - From where? Out from that big nut? Did you try tightening it? Carbs Leak - From where? Is it just a loose drain screw? From the bowl gaskets? Choke doesn't work - Is the cable hooked up? Not much else to it. Mufflers rusted - Surface or through? A muffler joint leaks - Are the clamps tight? Is the clamp just rusted out? Is there a gasket in there? Grease boots on front calipers are torn - That's cheesy. Simple 2 bolt fix. Tires need to be replaced - That's straightforward. Horns not loud enough - How many do you have? Stick to a $9.99 jobbie from any auto parts store. Non inspection items: Clutch slips - You should ride it and see for yourself. If true, bleed the system first, then try Barnett springs. Clutch fluid leaking from reservoir - Have you tried giving the screws a little twitch? Be careful, these strip easily. Tach doesn't work (intermittent) - That one will need a wiring diagram. Anyway, this is to clarify some of the issues so that you can better manage them. Obviously, leaking fuel is a hazard, but some of the other stuff is typical dealer BS unfortunately. Hopefully someone close to you can help you out if you can't plow through it with the service manual. Mike 96 VFR 88 Hawk 76 CB400F > -----Original Message----- > From: Brad Kragness [SMTP:bkragness@XXXXXX] > Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 5:26 PM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Mini - dilemma (acutally kinda long though) > > Hi everyone, > > My name is Brad. I ride bikes. I don't do too much work on bikes. > > problems: > > Petcock leaks > Carbs Leak > Choke doesn't work > Mufflers rusted > A muffler joint leaks > Grease boots on front calipers are torn > Tires need to be replaced > Horns not loud enough > > Not related to the inspection are the following: > > Clutch slips > Clutch fluid leaking from reservoir > Tach doesn't work (actually, when I drove it home, it worked, so it must > be > intermittent) > > The main problem is that the bill to have the dealer (Honda of Crofton) do > the work is $1452.00 for parts and labor. > > To order everything (including clutch parts but not tachometer) from Ron > Ayers is $573.66, which is much more manageable. With a cheap exhaust > from > Dennis Kirk and no clutch parts it would be about $360.00 to pass > inspection > and be safe (I didn't notice the clutch slip, but the mechanic must have). > > "Why'd you buy a bike that needed work dumbass?" is ok ;) > > Thanks, > Brad Kragness > '94 Concours > Odenton, MD > > > PS - If there is anyone out there willing to help, I will buy beer, pizza, > jewelry, motorcycle gear, magazine subscriptions, candy bars from your > kids, > etc. I will even pay someone to help me learn and fix it ;) > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 18:27:42 2003 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:27:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Patrick Victor Ingram To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: beginner bike...? Hey all - my name is Pat, new to the list...I was just wondering if any of you out there had any old bikes you were trying to get rid of for me to begin on. I am looking for something not too old, that will keep my attention for say 4 or 5 years...I do have experience on trail bikes for a few years, so I am looking for engines in the 400 - 500cc range. I am also tight on the cash and I am trying to keep the bike under $2000...so yeah, if any of you got something, drop me line...thanks, pat From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 18:30:01 2003 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:29:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Patrick Victor Ingram To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: sorry-still beginner bike sorry - meant to say 500 - 750cc bike...don;t know what i was thinking right there...thanks again, pat From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 18:33:22 2003 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:32:18 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Brad Kragness CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Mini - dilemma (acutally kinda long though) Horn not loud enough? Good grief, that describes every freaking OEM M/C horn I've tooted. More like a *peep* I call them horns for inspection purposes only, not a reasonable warning device. But that's for VA inspection. You might consoider moving to a less anal state :-) The list: #1 get a haynes or similer fixit manual for the bike. Petcock leaks - some can be rebuilt. Carbs Leak - rebuildable, get a kit or neccessary gaskets. Might be a dirty/sticky float valve and may not require any parts, just cleaning. Choke doesn't work - fix it. Cab;e adustment is probably the culprit, chokes/enricher valves are simple. Mufflers rusted - sorry, dude toss the rust never sleeps jap crap and replace. Aftewrmarket can be cheaper than OEM. A muffler joint leaks - fix it. Should have some form of gasket, probably a copper washer. Grease boots on front calipers are torn - replace. Tires need to be replaced - replace, they ain't cheap. Horns not loud enough - screw an OEM mini-tweeter, get Friamm from Pep Boys or like store, cost about $15. Other stuff: Clutch slips - adjust it. Clutch fluid leaking from reservoir - fix it, a rebuild item with seals to replace. Tach doesn't work (actually, when I drove it home, it worked, so it must be intermittent) - An electric tach? Check the pickup sensor first, and the wiring. The tach itself should be damn near bulletproof. Yes, I would attempt repairs myself, but then I was cranking wrenchs long before I discovered girls. Girls didn't stop me from wrenching, but I had to spend more time degreasing myself so I didn't smell like a grease stain on a garage floor :-) Bill Brad Kragness wrote: > Hi everyone, > > My name is Brad. I ride bikes. I don't do too much work on bikes. > > Here's the situation: my girlfriend is taking her MSF course soon, and we > bought her a 1983 Honda Shadow 750 (pretty cheap). I have a Kawasaki > Concours, and when I brought it to my local dealer for inspection, it was > cheap and I was on the road after a couple weeks. This bike, though, needs > more work. To pass MD inspection, they said they have the following > problems: > > Petcock leaks > Carbs Leak > Choke doesn't work > Mufflers rusted > A muffler joint leaks > Grease boots on front calipers are torn > Tires need to be replaced > Horns not loud enough > > Not related to the inspection are the following: > > Clutch slips > Clutch fluid leaking from reservoir > Tach doesn't work (actually, when I drove it home, it worked, so it must be > intermittent) > > The main problem is that the bill to have the dealer (Honda of Crofton) do > the work is $1452.00 for parts and labor. Now my girlfriend thinks she > might not want the bike, and is kind of worried that there might be many > more problems even if we fix what is wrong. I like the bike, and have done > some pricing: > > To order everything (including clutch parts but not tachometer) from Ron > Ayers is $573.66, which is much more manageable. With a cheap exhaust from > Dennis Kirk and no clutch parts it would be about $360.00 to pass inspection > and be safe (I didn't notice the clutch slip, but the mechanic must have). > > My question is: What do you all think about the repairs that need to be > done? If they are not too difficult, I have faith that I can do them with > the right tools. Would you? Not the right question I guess. Should we > just get rid of the bike and start with a new one? > > Well, I appreciate your time for reading this, and am looking for any > feedback (even "Why'd you buy a bike that needed work dumbass?" is ok ;) > > Thanks, > Brad Kragness > '94 Concours > Odenton, MD > > PS - If there is anyone out there willing to help, I will buy beer, pizza, > jewelry, motorcycle gear, magazine subscriptions, candy bars from your kids, > etc. I will even pay someone to help me learn and fix it ;) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 18:42:42 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: Re: beginner bike...? Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:42:38 -0400 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79bf464a7de1424edbce74c9a88a6c6cba350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Pat de-lurked: > Hey all - my name is Pat, new to the list...I was just wondering if any of > you out there had any old bikes you were trying to get rid of for me to > begin on. I am looking for ...thanks, pat [Dave] Welcome to the list. earlier today, someone advertised a Sabre for ~$1500 IIRC - if the poster doesn't pop up, see the archives... Yeah, it's older & probably a little bigger than you're looking for, but they're not bad bikes... HTH Dave From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 19:07:10 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: "'DCCycles'" Subject: HOV enforcement Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 19:08:02 -0400 To the Alexandria boys' credit, they were out at the intersection of Rt. 1 and Duke last night pulling people into a lot. One can only hope that it wasn't "HOV enforcement day", and it was the beginning of the pattern "We're gonna git you sucka." Hopefully, Mike 96 VFR 88 Hawk 76 CB400F From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 19:28:13 2003 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:27:34 -0700 (PDT) From: David Fruehwald Subject: Tire Advice for ZR-7 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Thanks to all. I can see the wear bars on the rear but not on the front but I figure I've had a good run at 11,000 on these D220's so I'll just do them both. Probably should look into the brakes also while I'm at it. For those who asked I'm thinking of spending some time down at Deals Gap and Cherohala Skyway, so by long trip I meant 1000+ there and back plus what ever silliness I do while there :-) Now I just have to decide if this is a DIY job and mail order some new tire$ or have it done $$$. Any recommendations on brake pad inspection? Any recommendations on where to get pads quickly? OEM Kawasaki parts seem to take the slow boat the wrong way round the world to get here. :-( __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 20:14:23 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 20:14:18 EDT Subject: Re: Mini - dilemma (actually kinda long though) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/17/2003 6:19:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, MLynch@XXXXXX writes: > Grease boots on front calipers are torn - That's cheesy. Simple 2 > bolt fix. Sort of easy, but you will need to replace the boots and it is kind of a pain in the arse. You do need them though to keep the slide pins from rusting and binding resulting in poor brake performance. General advice: Honda _SUCKS_ about putting enough grease on the pins to begin with if your brakes wear unevenly or you cannot slide the calipers on the pins (single action calipers (pistons on only one side of disk.)) My ST wore out all three sets, two front one rear, in only 9,000mi. due to uneven wear. The next set lasted about 30,000mi. The difference? I lubricated the pins. (NOTE: I am not talking about the pins that hold the pads in the caliper. I am talking about the pins that hold the caliper on the bike and allow it to slide back and forth. Those pins are inside of rubber boots. Also most mechanics do not even know they are there, much less that they need to be lubed.) > Horns not loud Define loud enough, aint never been a stock bike horn loud enough. (hell until it literally blows the car out of your way it aint loud enough.) > Clutch slips - You should ride it and see for yourself. If true, > bleed the system first, then try Barnett springs. An inexperienced rider may not be able to feel or hear* it slip. Have someone who knows what it feels like ride it. And I would say to adjust your clutch first, it is rare for a Japanese clutch to wear out. Second, (and you should do this anyhow) change the oil to remove any additives (like STP) that can cause the clutch to slip. Third replace the plates (you could put in Barnett springs while you are in there, but if the clutch has been slipping you will likely need new plates anyhow. *RPM disconnected from speed. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 20:17:53 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 20:17:43 EDT Subject: Re: Mini - dilemma (acutally kinda long though) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/17/2003 6:33:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bhuson@XXXXXX writes: > Petcock leaks - some can be rebuilt. > > Carbs Leak - rebuildable, get a kit or neccessary gaskets. Might be a > dirty/sticky float valve and may not require any parts, just cleaning. > Leak as in drip drip? Or leak as in there is a brown stain on the outside? If it is just dirty, clean em. If it leaks..... John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 21:07:05 2003 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:07:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Leon Begeman Subject: Re: beginner bike...? To: Patrick Victor Ingram Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Patrick Victor Ingram wrote: > wondering if any of > you out there had any old bikes you were trying to > get rid of for me to > begin on. Hi Pat, Yes. I've got one. My neighbors are divorcing. He left his old bike with her. She just wants to get rid of it, he has a newer bike, so he doesn't care either. It's 91 (plus or minus a year or so) Yamaha Seca II with about 40K on it. It has aftermarket fairing on the bike, but the OE fairing that's cracked comes with the bike. Rubber is good, not sure about the chain, it needs a valve adjustment. If it goes for $600, then I get to keep $100 of it. For that price, I'll do the valve adjustment, an oil change, and make sure the chain is good. Contact me, he's gone to live with his new significant other and she's out of town for a few days. I can get the key to test the bike, but won't be able to get the title until she comes back. Leon Begeman Dale City, VA phone 703-590-9073 cell 703-470-1167 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 21:39:57 2003 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:38:19 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: Mini - dilemma (actually kinda long though) At 06:19 PM 7/17/03 -0400, Michael Lynch wrote: >You know, I hate seeing this. Unfortunately this dealer is raking you. Not >sure about MD, but can you take that thing to a gas station and get an >inspection? If the station is licensed to do inspections, probably. Maryland isn't like Virginia...we don't do regular inspections up here, they only happen when title changes hands. They do a much more thorough inspection than is done in Virginia when they do them though. It can take a couple of hours on a car...they actually pull wheels to inspect bearings and that sort of thing. Not sure what is involved for motorcycles...I've only bought new from dealers, and that was taken care of already. >Anyway, some questions for clarification: > Petcock leaks - From where? Out from that big nut? Did you try >tightening it? > > Carbs Leak - From where? Is it just a loose drain screw? From the >bowl gaskets? Both of these, given the bike's age, sound like decaying gaskets. Replacing them should fix the problems...unless there's cracks or something in the metal...a close look should determine that. Tightening things up may work long enough to pass inspection, but I'd count on replacing them soon anyway. > Choke doesn't work - Is the cable hooked up? Not much else to it. Unless the carburetor is really gummed up inside I can't think of anything else it might be...but I'm no mechanic. Just your basic layman's understanding. ;^) > Mufflers rusted - Surface or through? Given the age, probably through from the inside. Sulfuric acid from condensation and exhaust gas does a number on pipes given time...replace them with something cool looking...and sounding! :^) > A muffler joint leaks - Are the clamps tight? Is the clamp just >rusted out? Is there a gasket in there? If you replace the pipes, this goes away too... :^) > Grease boots on front calipers are torn - That's cheesy. Simple 2 >bolt fix. Yeah, if it was Virginia they wouldn't worry about it, as they'd get another check in 6 months or a year, but here they worry about long term decay since it may be their only shot. Ripped boots means dirt in the lube, and that means accelerated wear of parts. It's probably cheaper in the long run to replace them than ignore them, even if the inspection wasn't an issue. > Tires need to be replaced - That's straightforward. Yep! > Horns not loud enough - How many do you have? Stick to a $9.99 >jobbie from any auto parts store. I wonder if it's a dead horn, or a problem with the wiring? Might be worth tracing the wires to make sure you aren't leaking voltage somewhere (that age thing again...insulation oxidizes over time (especially with heat), gets brittle, cracks, falls off...). And check the switch for too much resistance...it should be nearly zero when you press it, and infinite when you don't. If it has a high resistance when you press it (anything over zero...) it's probably corroded inside. Repair or replace. If not, new horns should fix it. It's most likely the horn I expect. >Non inspection items: > Clutch slips - You should ride it and see for yourself. If true, >bleed the system first, then try Barnett springs. I know nothing about clutches...still trying to figure out how those multi-disk things in Harleys work...anybody have a simple explanation they feel like offering? > Clutch fluid leaking from reservoir - Have you tried giving the >screws a little twitch? Be careful, these strip easily. Sounds like more age-related decay of gaskets. > Tach doesn't work (intermittent) - That one will need a wiring >diagram. Is it mechanical or electronic? Modern bikes are usually electronic I hear, but older ones might use a cable. >Anyway, this is to clarify some of the issues so that you can better manage >them. Obviously, leaking fuel is a hazard, but some of the other stuff is >typical dealer BS unfortunately. I wouldn't blame the dealer much...Maryland is a lot stricter about inspections than Virginia is. The dealer may just not want to lose his license. I had then gripe about some things on a bike trailer I bought used once...and there's almost nothing to one of those. Steel rails, two tires and a pair of lights. They insisted I replace the cotter pin that held the bolt that held the loading ramp on when traveling. They didn't like the way the wires were secured, and a missing screw on one taillight lens was a problem. They didn't care if I paid them to fix it or went across the street to the hardware store, but it wouldn't pass without those items being addressed. A few zip ties, a screw and a cotter pin later, it passed. Doesn't sound like anything really complicated is wrong...unless the carb needs rebuilding (and you can get pros to do that bit for you). Sounds like mostly bolt-on parts (gaskets, pipes, horns, tires, etc.). No machining or fancy tools needed more than likely. Have fun! -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 22:21:11 2003 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 22:16:03 -0400 From: Carl Parker To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" , bkragness@XXXXXX Subject: Mini - dilemma (acutally kinda long though) Brad, Howdy and welcome aboard. Let me get to the dirty here... First mistake was taking it to a local dealer for inspection. While I'm sure some of those things need to be taken care of, the dealers make money off of people in your exact situation. You'll get most of it fixed if you get yourself some parts, a SHOP MANUAL, and a couple of weekends. If you take it to a small local bike garage or a gas station they probably won't care about half the things you listed. Lets take a look.... > Petcock leaks - Where? Is it a cracked tube, bad gasket or o-ring? Prolly cost you 5 bucks tops. Unless it's severe most inspections place probably won't care. > Carbs Leak - Where? How much? probabyl similar problem to above but you can bet they need to be cleaned. > Choke doesn't work - You can cure this when you get your carbs worked on. Proably need to have the cable replaced or lubed. >Mufflers rusted - I almost don't believe anyone would cite this as a reason for not passing inspection....the dealer was full of it. 20 year old bikes tend to show some rust. As long as it's not so infested by rust that it looks like swiss cheese or a cloud of fine clayish powder falls of your bike every time you walk by it, it's probably OK. >A muffler joint leaks - Probably like more than a few bike on the road now. Also an easy fix assuming the bolts aren't seized shut. Good ol' seized bolts...now I miss my Magna again. >Grease boots on front calipers are torn - These should definitely be replaced...not too expensive at all. >Tires need to be replaced - Have someone other than a stealer asses this. Chances are they do and it never hurts to have fresh rubber...mmmm..fresh rubber. A new rider would esp. like the added confidence of not having to learn on crappy old dry rotting Disqualifiers... >Horns not loud enough - Fookin' dealer pukes. Maybe there is some reccomendation but unless the horn is so toasted that it's sounds more like a dying frog it's probably not something another place would cite you for. TAKE THE BIKE SOMEWHERE ELSE TO BE INSPECTED!!! Now as far as this stuff goes... >Clutch slips - Once again the dealer dude could be full of shiznit. Unless the bike has some 30k+ miles on it I wouldn't even think it's a real issue. It's not like a 1000cc torque monster or anything. >Clutch fluid leaking from reservoir - Where at? Could need to rebuild the master cyl..might be able to find a whole cheap one in good shape from Ebay or sumthin', Get on taps with Shadowrider.org and you'll probably get LOTs more advice and resources than on here. They also have other female riders...I actually just met a lady riding an 83' Shadow 700 on the 4th. >Tach doesn't work (actually, when I drove it home, it worked, so it must be intermittent) - Might not need a new tach unit...could be a loose connection. I understand that the early models of Shadows had chronic problems with the tachs going out so it may actually need a new one. Check all connections though first before dropping several hundred bucks on a new one. At least check Ebay first. Also, check www.servicehonda.com for oem parts. To use their site I think you need the part numbers but you can call them too. Also change the oil and brake/clutch fluids - oil that's been sitting in a pan for 10 years tends to get nasty. Moral of the story is: -Don't take bikes to dealers for inspections unless you like being fed a rash of BS. -Don't take bikes to dealers for service unless you like having a rash of BS shoved up your ass pulled out and fed to you later when you find out 5 miles down the roads they forgot to tighten the spin on filter. -Don't take bikes to dealers for practically anything or unless you happen to know someone there. Some of them are fine but others (generally the larger ones) will really be glad to stick it to you. -Get a service manual for the bike when you order your parts; either an official Honda Shop Maual or a Haynes or something...anything! It will save you hundreds is not thousands of dollars and exploring/maintaining and older bike is a wonderful - although arduous - experience in and of itself. -Get in contact with people who know alot about the particular ride - www.shadowriders.org is one and I can attest to some of the kind folk there. Not only can you find/meet interesting people but this can also save you hundreds or thousands of dollars. It's win/win! I'd offer to come help you myself but I'm preparing to leave town in a month. If you get in a jam between then and now drop me a line and we can at least get started...oh and do only one thing at a time....this is VERY important when working on older bikes with loads of problems. Prioritize, isolate, solve then move to the next thing. Congradulate yourself along the way for every little job done. Have a beer or somthin'...sit back and marvel for a moment at the fruits of your own labor....then get back to work. You're favorite music in the background helps too. Before you know it you will be swimming in the Dao of Wrenching/Riding. ;) FWIW, Carlo From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 22:34:57 2003 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 22:29:55 -0400 From: Carl Parker To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" , pingram@XXXXXX Subject: Re: beginner bike...? Dave sed: >Welcome to the list. earlier today, someone advertised a Sabre for >~$1500 IIRC - if the poster doesn't pop up, see the archives... Yeah, it's >older & probably a little bigger than you're looking for, but they're not >bad bikes... I second that notion. These bikes are surprisingly strong, esp. for their age and are loaded with character. Coming from a dirt background the Sabre should fit right nicely...noone seems to wash them for some odd reason. ;) They'll pull nice and strong though! I actually wouldn't mind one myself...V65 though...the darkside....yeah....Carlo From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 22:51:29 2003 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 19:51:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Larry Larson Subject: Re: HOV enforcement To: Michael Lynch , "'DCCycles'" --- Michael Lynch wrote: > To the Alexandria boys' credit, they were out at the > intersection of Rt. 1 > and Duke last night pulling people into a lot. One can > only hope that it > wasn't "HOV enforcement day", and it was the beginning of > the pattern "We're > gonna git you sucka." The big problem with that type of mass enforcement is that they almost certainly have no evidence of illegality, since it is legal to be in the left-hand HOV lane for the purpose of turning left at the next opportunity. To successfully prosecute you, they have to prove that you were in the HOV lane past a point of legal left-hand turning (which would be King St. for anyone planning to make the U-turn left right after Duke). Of course, most of the people they pulled will just pay the ticket. I'm not sure which I hate most: HOV violators, or Gestapo-style enforcement. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 17 23:22:09 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Carl Parker , "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" , bkragness@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Mini - dilemma (acutally kinda long though) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 22:22:53 -0500 I agree with Carlo! Half the fun of a bike is working on the damn thing. When I got my bike inspected in NY at a little bike garage they checked the brake pads, the brake lines, the chain slack and the lights. And if your bike is really in that bad of shape you probaly should fix it. It probaly could stand a Little TLC from it's owner. Rob On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 22:16:03 -0400, Carl Parker wrote > Brad, > > Howdy and welcome aboard. Let me get to the dirty here... > > First mistake was taking it to a local dealer for inspection. While > I'm sure some of those things need to be taken care of, the dealers make > money off of people in your exact situation. You'll get most of it > fixed if you get yourself some parts, a SHOP MANUAL, and a couple of > weekends. > > If you take it to a small local bike garage or a gas station they > probably won't care about half the things you listed. Lets take a > look.... > > > Petcock leaks - Where? Is it a cracked tube, bad gasket or o-ring? > Prolly cost you 5 bucks tops. Unless it's severe most inspections place > probably won't care. > > > Carbs Leak - Where? How much? probabyl similar problem to above but > you can bet they need to be cleaned. > > > Choke doesn't work - You can cure this when you get your carbs worked > on. Proably need to have the cable replaced or lubed. > > >Mufflers rusted - I almost don't believe anyone would cite this as a > reason for not passing inspection....the dealer was full of it. 20 year > old bikes tend to show some rust. As long as it's not so infested by > rust that it looks like swiss cheese or a cloud of fine clayish > powder falls of your bike every time you walk by it, it's probably OK. > > >A muffler joint leaks - Probably like more than a few bike on the road > now. Also an easy fix assuming the bolts aren't seized shut. Good ol' > seized bolts...now I miss my Magna again. > > >Grease boots on front calipers are torn - These should definitely be > replaced...not too expensive at all. > > >Tires need to be replaced - Have someone other than a stealer asses > this. Chances are they do and it never hurts to have fresh > rubber...mmmm..fresh rubber. A new rider would esp. like the added > confidence of not having to learn on crappy old dry rotting > Disqualifiers... > > >Horns not loud enough - Fookin' dealer pukes. Maybe there is some > reccomendation but unless the horn is so toasted that it's sounds > more like a dying frog it's probably not something another place > would cite you for. > > TAKE THE BIKE SOMEWHERE ELSE TO BE INSPECTED!!! > > Now as far as this stuff goes... > > >Clutch slips - Once again the dealer dude could be full of shiznit. > Unless the bike has some 30k+ miles on it I wouldn't even think it's > a real issue. It's not like a 1000cc torque monster or anything. > > >Clutch fluid leaking from reservoir - Where at? Could need to rebuild > the master cyl..might be able to find a whole cheap one in good shape > from Ebay or sumthin', Get on taps with Shadowrider.org and you'll > probably get LOTs more advice and resources than on here. They also > have other female riders...I actually just met a lady riding an 83' > Shadow 700 on the 4th. > > >Tach doesn't work (actually, when I drove it home, it worked, so it > must be intermittent) - Might not need a new tach unit...could be a > loose connection. I understand that the early models of Shadows had > chronic problems with the tachs going out so it may actually need a new > one. Check all connections though first before dropping several hundred > bucks on a new one. At least check Ebay first. > > Also, check www.servicehonda.com for oem parts. To use their site I > think you need the part numbers but you can call them too. > > Also change the oil and brake/clutch fluids - oil that's been > sitting in a pan for 10 years tends to get nasty. > > Moral of the story is: > > -Don't take bikes to dealers for inspections unless you like being > fed a rash of BS. -Don't take bikes to dealers for service unless > you like having a rash of BS shoved up your ass pulled out and fed > to you later when you find out 5 miles down the roads they forgot to > tighten the spin on filter. -Don't take bikes to dealers for > practically anything or unless you happen to know someone there. > Some of them are fine but others > (generally the larger ones) will really be glad to stick it to you. - > Get a service manual for the bike when you order your parts; either > an official Honda Shop Maual or a Haynes or something...anything! > It will save you hundreds is not thousands of dollars and exploring/maintaining > and older bike is a wonderful - although arduous - experience in and > of itself. -Get in contact with people who know alot about the > particular ride - www.shadowriders.org is one and I can attest to > some of the kind folk there. Not only can you find/meet interesting > people but this can also save you hundreds or thousands of dollars. > It's win/win! > > I'd offer to come help you myself but I'm preparing to leave town in > a month. If you get in a jam between then and now drop me a line > and we can at least get started...oh and do only one thing at a > time....this is VERY important when working on older bikes with > loads of problems. Prioritize, isolate, solve then move to the next > thing. Congradulate yourself along the way for every little job > done. Have a beer or somthin'...sit back and marvel for a moment at > the fruits of your own labor....then get back to work. You're > favorite music in the background helps too. Before you know it you > will be swimming in the Dao of Wrenching/Riding. ;) > > FWIW, > Carlo -- Rob Sharp SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 18 00:05:04 2003 Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 00:06:45 -0400 Subject: bike for sale To: Patrick Victor Ingram Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "garcia oliver" For Sale: Honda Magna 750 (V45) 1982. 30,000 miles. I acquired this bike non-running. It now starts easily and runs well, but have not put on enough miles to assess reliability. I rebuilt the carbs and front brakes, replaced the front master cylinder (used part), all four turn signals (new and matched, but not stock), the radiator fan (used), and the sealed beam with a better H4 unit. Has: good dual-disk front brakes, hydraulic clutch, water-cooled V-4 motor, low-maintenance shaft drive. All lights, switches, and instruments work. Adjustable (slides on rails) passenger backrest. Oil, clutch and brake fluids have been changed (antifreeze not changed). Known problems: Needs new rear tire, seat cover is in poor condition. paint faded, one sidecover has a crack, I can)B’t get the brake backing plate bolt off. Possible problems: the replacement fan motor works fine but does not move as freely as I think it should. It draws 5 amps. (Anyone know how much they)B’re supposed to use?) Anyhow)B…$950/b.o. --garcia "An evil exists that threatens every man, woman and child of this great nation...We must take steps to ensure our domestic security and protect our homeland." - Adolph Hitler, writing about creation of the Gestapo in Nazi Germany. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 18 00:48:56 2003 Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 00:50:44 -0400 Subject: Re: Mini - dilemma (acutally kinda long though) To: Carl Parker Cc: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" , bkragness@XXXXXX From: "garcia oliver" Carl Parker writes: [snipping lots of good advice from Carl Parker.] > > >>Mufflers rusted - I almost don't believe anyone would cite this as a >reason for not passing inspection....the dealer was full of it. 20 year >old bikes tend to show some rust. As long as it's not so infested by >rust that it looks like swiss cheese or a cloud of fine clayish powder >falls of your bike every time you walk by it, it's probably OK. Possibly noise issue? Otherwise silly---see next item. > >>A muffler joint leaks - Probably like more than a few bike on the road >now. Also an easy fix assuming the bolts aren't seized shut. Good ol' >seized bolts...now I miss my Magna again. This seems like a mindless application of a rule that makes sense for cages, but not bikes. What difference does it make if a joint leaks? Carbon monoxide is not a problem while riding a motorcycle. > > >>Tires need to be replaced - Have someone other than a stealer asses >this. Chances are they do and it never hurts to have fresh >rubber...mmmm..fresh rubber. A new rider would esp. like the added >confidence of not having to learn on crappy old dry rotting >Disqualifiers... Devil's Advocate points out that bald tires provide better traction, handling, and heat dissipation (all else being equal) than tires with lots of tread. They are, however, more subject to road hazards such as nails. And water. > > > > > >>Tach doesn't work (actually, when I drove it home, it worked, so it >must be intermittent) - Might not need a new tach unit...could be a >loose connection. I understand that the early models of Shadows had >chronic problems with the tachs going out so it may actually need a new >one. Check all connections though first before dropping several hundred >bucks on a new one. At least check Ebay first. Is a tach even useful here? Is a typical new MSF rider going to redline a 750? Probably not, except via missed shift or emergency/panic, neither of which will be helped by having a working tach. (Otoh, this may not be a typical new rider...) > > >Also change the oil and brake/clutch fluids - oil that's been sitting in >a pan for 10 years tends to get nasty. > Yes, indeed. And brake/clutch fluid will no longer be fluid. > > --garcia . When women are depressed they either eat or go shopping. Men invade another country. ~~~~~~~~~ -Elayne Boosler- From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 18 01:07:59 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: "'Larry Larson '" , "''DCCycles' '" Subject: RE: HOV enforcement Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 01:08:50 -0400 -----Original Message----- From: Larry Larson "...it is legal to be in the left-hand HOV lane for the purpose of turning left at the next opportunity. To successfully prosecute you, they have to prove that you were in the HOV lane past a point of legal left-hand turning..." ----- Right. It's legal to be in the lane if you're turning at the next intersection. How do they enforce it? Post a Man at the other side of the intersection. If the perp motors up the lane and blows through the intersection, they're in violation. If you need to turn somewhere and you're solo, just merge over within the block approaching the intersection. Simple. They can easily do that for the Rt. 1 U-turn lane too. There's plenty of Gestapo tactics out there, but this ain't one of 'em. Mike 96 VFR 88 Hawk 76 CB400F From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 18 06:20:25 2003 From: "Michael Jordan" To: , Subject: Re: another bike club Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 06:20:18 -0400 > Jewish bike club hits the roads Oy! Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 18 06:35:26 2003 Subject: Re: Coleman's From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 18 Jul 2003 06:31:10 -0400 On Thu, 2003-07-17 at 14:20, Dale Horstman wrote: > Carl Schelin wrote: > > > > But I'm also letting you folks know. Shhh, it's a secret but there's a > > MSF class opening up. > > Dang, you Carls of the world really are taking over, aren't ya? > > Hork > Was that you at Coleman's? My memory sucks for names but I thought the instructor's name was Dale. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 18 06:38:14 2003 Subject: Re: Tire Advice for ZR-7 From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 18 Jul 2003 06:33:59 -0400 Just FYI, in the September Hot Bikes rag, there's a couple of page article on tires. Carl On Thu, 2003-07-17 at 19:27, David Fruehwald wrote: > Thanks to all. > > I can see the wear bars on the rear but not on the > front but I figure I've had a good run at 11,000 on > these D220's so I'll just do them both. Probably > should look into the brakes also while I'm at it. > > For those who asked I'm thinking of spending some time > down at Deals Gap and Cherohala Skyway, so by long > trip I meant 1000+ there and back plus what ever > silliness I do while there :-) > > Now I just have to decide if this is a DIY job and > mail order some new tire$ or have it done $$$. > > Any recommendations on brake pad inspection? > Any recommendations on where to get pads quickly? OEM > Kawasaki parts seem to take the slow boat the wrong > way round the world to get here. :-( > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > http://sbc.yahoo.com > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 18 08:26:15 2003 Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 08:25:39 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: HOV enforcement To: "'DCCycles'" >--- Michael Lynch wrote: >> To the Alexandria boys' credit, they were out at the >> intersection of Rt. 1 and Duke last night >The big problem with that type of mass enforcement is that >they almost certainly have no evidence of illegality, since >it is legal to be in the left-hand HOV lane for the purpose >of turning left at the next opportunity. [Dave] Exactly. Further, rush hour conditions are not conducive to a lane change in a single block there. You try to force your way in on one of them Uber-utes, and you've just challenged the driver's masculinity regardless of whether the driver is male or female. That's how road rage starts. > To successfully >prosecute you, they have to prove that you were in the HOV >lane past a point of legal left-hand turning (which would >be King St. for anyone planning to make the U-turn left >right after Duke). [Dave] No, they simply have to convince the judge, which is done by the officer 1: showing up and 2: getting his/her name right in the testimony. Proof... HA! > >Of course, most of the people they pulled will just pay the >ticket. > >I'm not sure which I hate most: HOV violators, or >Gestapo-style enforcement. [Dave] HOV is an artificial, 'made up' violation in this case, these lanes have no useful purpose (in at least this section of ) in Alexandria. They're an impediment to traffic in at least a third of the areas they serve around here, and that's probably being generous. If they didn't have to spend so much time nabbing HOV civil rights protesters, they could move on to bigger fish, like, cell phone yakkers. Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 18 10:46:47 2003 Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 10:46:32 -0400 From: Dale Horstman To: Carl Schelin CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Coleman's Carl Schelin wrote: > Was that you at Coleman's? My memory sucks for names but I thought the > instructor's name was Dale. Nope, not me. I try to avoid that place usually. :) Hork -- Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark) Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX "My ambition in life is to Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth minimize my stress level." CM #001 NRA IBA COG '98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer '99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi '82 Suzuki GS850G - Neat old bike From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 18 10:59:26 2003 Subject: Re: Coleman's From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 18 Jul 2003 10:55:10 -0400 On Fri, 2003-07-18 at 10:46, Dale Horstman wrote: > Carl Schelin wrote: > > > Was that you at Coleman's? My memory sucks for names but I thought the > > instructor's name was Dale. > > Nope, not me. I try to avoid that place usually. :) > I got a personal e-mail from someone else who gave me the right name (Dave). > Hork > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 18 11:19:46 2003 Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 11:19:50 -0400 To: "Michael Jordan" , , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: another bike club At 06:20 AM 7/18/03 -0400, Michael Jordan wrote: >> Jewish bike club hits the roads > >Oy! Oy, vay-twin? -- Mike **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 18 11:33:06 2003 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'DCCycles'" Subject: Volvo's 'n Buicks Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 11:36:09 -0400 Tall Carl offered, "Hmmm...Buicks come before ovloV's on my list but not by much." Trout-dude sed: >Now had it been a ovloV you would hear me stereotyping big time. I believe a lot of the problem is drivers are disconnected from the road. Many cages now are so comfy, the operator isn't "driving" but merely letting the vehicle take them down the road. Plus there's the stereo and insulation separating the operator from the road. You can see the separation in the glazed eyes of many cagers riding behind the steering wheel. Imagine what's going on in their little brains: "Oh yeah, This car is soooo smoooth. It's just floating me down the road. I own the road. Just me and my road. Ommmm. Just me and my road. Ommmm. Just me and my road." Hi, my name is Carl, I own a Volvo I bought it reluctantly because of the operators' reputations. But, I also figured, "Hey if dumbasses can operate one of these it should be right nifty in the hands of a young 46 year old hot shot." That 87 745 now has ~225,000 miles and still nudges 30 MPG on the road at 70 MPH with AC going. However, I'm still appalled by the idiocy demonstrated by many Volvo owners. But it isn't just Volvos. In my experience, some of the worse operators appear to be in: Toyotas (including Lexus) BMW 300s Maximas Jeep wagons Then there's most cages with plates from: Florida (Why do they call 'em Floridiots?) Delaware, Rhode Island, Connecticut (Do small States have midget complexes?) North Carolina (Driving it like I stole it) Alabama (Away down south in Dixie, ev'ah one drives in tha lay-af lay-un) Pennsylvania (Yuh huk, we dont tawk lak hicks, but we sure drive lak hit) Vermont (Wee don't know how wee got to heah from they-ah so, we've closed our eyes.) With notable (& scary) exceptions, most folks from New Jersey, New York, Ohio, W(BG)V appear to drive fairly well. Olde Carl (Thanks, EC, yeah, my ginkgo level musta been low. 7-6=1 not 2) You know..."On the road of evil, be sure to stop and laugh maniacally." Great song by Willie N-osferatu From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 18 11:39:37 2003 Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 08:35:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Larry Larson Subject: RE: HOV enforcement To: Michael Lynch , "''DCCycles' '" --- Michael Lynch wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: Larry Larson > "...it is legal to be in the left-hand HOV lane for the > purpose > of turning left at the next opportunity. To successfully > prosecute you, they have to prove that you were in the > HOV > lane past a point of legal left-hand turning..." > ----- > > Right. It's legal to be in the lane if you're turning at > the next > intersection. How do they enforce it? Post a Man at the > other side of the > intersection. If the perp motors up the lane and blows > through the > intersection, they're in violation. If you need to turn > somewhere and > you're solo, just merge over within the block approaching > the intersection. > Simple. > > They can easily do that for the Rt. 1 U-turn lane too. They *could*, and they *should*, but they *don't*. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 18 11:52:09 2003 Subject: Re: Volvo's 'n Buicks From: Carl Schelin To: "Custer, Carl" Cc: "'DCCycles'" Date: 18 Jul 2003 11:47:53 -0400 On Fri, 2003-07-18 at 11:36, Custer, Carl wrote: > I believe a lot of the problem is drivers are disconnected from the road. > Many cages now are so comfy, the operator isn't "driving" but merely letting > the vehicle take them down the road. Plus there's the stereo and insulation > separating the operator from the road. > You can see the separation in the glazed eyes of many cagers riding behind > the steering wheel. > Imagine what's going on in their little brains: "Oh yeah, This car is soooo > smoooth. It's just floating me down the road. I own the road. Just me and > my road. Ommmm. Just me and my road. Ommmm. Just me and my road." > That may be one of the reasons I don't have a touring bike. No radio, no windshield, no heated seats, no reverse, no panels to redirect the airflow, just me, my backrest and the wind. "Only bikers know why dogs stick their heads out of car windows." Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 18 12:46:04 2003 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: 4th Annual "Rescue Ride" Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 12:34:38 -0400 Not my gig, but looks like a good cause: 4th Annual "Rescue Ride" Motorcycle Outing Sunday, September 21, 2003 80 Mile non-stop police escorted ride Sponsered by and to benefit Wheaton Volunteer Rescue Squad Early registration open until September 20, 2003 Click here to register 80 mile non-stop police escorted motorcycle ride Sunday, September 21, 2003 Registration: 8:00 am Departure 10:00 am promptly, rain or shine Wheaton Volunteer Rescue Squad (11435 Grandview Ave, Wheaton MD) $30.00 per person early registration (same for riders and passengers) $35.00 per person on-site, starting at 8:00 am Plus! Lunch and Dessert provided after ride "Best Food of Any Motorcycle Event" Special T-Shirt for all participants Silent Auction Door Prizes Raffle All makes of bikes are welcome Support Maryland's Busiest Volunteer Rescue Squad with an Unforgettable 80 Mile Ride Through the Towns and Rolling Hills of Montgomery County For more information call 301-949-9673, or email ride@XXXXXX _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 18 12:46:15 2003 Reply-To: "S. Russell" From: "S. Russell" To: "garcia oliver" Cc: Subject: Re: bike for sale, and looking for cowl CB700SC Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 12:45:32 -0400 Hmmm, might be interested in a second bike now. Might talk later about it, always wanted a magna. It would look good with my 84 CB700SC Nighthawk. Still fixing mine up a bit, but can't find a good used cowl for it. Any suggestions from the group? Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: "garcia oliver" To: "Patrick Victor Ingram" Cc: Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 12:06 AM Subject: bike for sale > For Sale: Honda Magna 750 (V45) 1982. 30,000 miles. I acquired this bike > non-running. It now starts easily and runs well, but have not put on > enough miles to assess reliability. > > I rebuilt the carbs and front brakes, replaced the front master cylinder > (used part), all four turn signals (new and matched, but not stock), the > radiator fan (used), and the sealed beam with a better H4 unit. > > Has: good dual-disk front brakes, hydraulic clutch, water-cooled V-4 > motor, low-maintenance shaft drive. All lights, switches, and instruments > work. Adjustable (slides on rails) passenger backrest. Oil, clutch and > brake fluids have been changed (antifreeze not changed). > > Known problems: Needs new rear tire, seat cover is in poor condition. > paint faded, one sidecover has a crack, I can't get the brake backing > plate bolt off. > > Possible problems: the replacement fan motor works fine but does not move > as freely as I think it should. It draws 5 amps. (Anyone know how much > they're supposed to use?) > > Anyhow.$950/b.o. > > --garcia > > > "An evil exists that threatens every man, woman and child of this great > nation...We must take steps to ensure our domestic security and protect > our homeland." - Adolph Hitler, writing about creation of the Gestapo in > Nazi Germany. > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 18 13:15:38 2003 Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 13:15:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Volvo's 'n Buicks From: "Mike Troutman" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Reply-To: mike@XXXXXX > Then there's most cages with plates from: > Florida (Why do they call 'em Floridiots?) > Delaware, Rhode Island, Connecticut (Do small States have midget > complexes?) > North Carolina (Driving it like I stole it) > Alabama (Away down south in Dixie, ev'ah one drives in tha lay-af lay-un) > Pennsylvania (Yuh huk, we dont tawk lak hicks, but we sure drive lak hit) > Vermont (Wee don't know how wee got to heah from they-ah so, we've closed > our eyes.) What about NJ? > With notable (& scary) exceptions, most folks from New Jersey, New York, > Ohio, W(BG)V appear to drive fairly well. Oh - the horror, the horror. ______________________________________ Mike Troutman mike@XXXXXX http://www.troutman.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 18 13:39:03 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 13:38:53 EDT Subject: Re: Volvo's 'n Buicks To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/18/2003 11:33:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Carl.Custer@XXXXXX writes: > This car is soooo > smoooth. It's just floating me down the road. I own the road. Just me and > my road. Ommmm. And lets not forget they feel _safe_ "I cannot get hurt in my big cage." Heard a student in a low level _Physics_ class talking about how she did not understand why when the car hit something and stopped the people inside kept going. In other words she did not understand why she should need seat belts. People just do not have a clue.... John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 18 13:40:11 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: Carl.Custer@XXXXXX CC: "'DCCycles'" Subject: Re: Re: Volvo's 'n Buicks Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 13:40:04 -0400 > > From: Carl Schelin > That may be one of the reasons I don't have a touring bike. No radio, no > windshield, no heated seats, no reverse, no panels to redirect the > airflow, just me, my backrest and the wind. A backrest! What are you, some sort of closet Gold Wing rider? Seriously, I have what most would call a Touring Bike (Honda ST1100). No radio, or heated seats, but it does have heated grips and a windshield. But believe me, there's no way anyone would mistake the ride for a Buick, and no way I could feel isolated from the road. Bob Meyer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 18 13:42:07 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: "'DCCycles'" Subject: Re: Re: Volvo's 'n Buicks Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 13:41:57 -0400 > On Fri, 2003-07-18 at 11:36, Custer, Carl wrote: > > > Imagine what's going on in their little brains: "Oh yeah, This car is soooo > > smoooth. It's just floating me down the road. I own the road. Just me and > > my road. Ommmm. Just me and my road. Ommmm. Just me and my road." I'd be pretty surprised if they're even thinking about the drive THAT much. I think they're thinking about work, their kids, wives or girlfriends, tunes, beer, etc., etc. In other words, I doubt they're thinking about driving at all. Bob Meyer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 18 13:44:40 2003 Reply-To: From: "Jim McGonigle" To: Subject: RE: Volvo's 'n Buicks Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 13:44:31 -0400 Be nice, physics isn't something that comes naturally to lots of people. I always love the one that people think that if they drive into a tractor trailer (like Knight Rider) at 50mph when the truck is going slightly less than 50mph that they need to step on the brakes real hard to slow down before they hit the back of the truck because now they are going 50mph in the back of the truck. > Heard a student in a low level _Physics_ class talking about > how she did not > understand why when the car hit something and stopped the > people inside kept > going. In other words she did not understand why she should > need seat belts. > People just do not have a clue.... > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 18 14:13:23 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 14:13:17 EDT Subject: Re: Mini - dilemma (actually kinda long though) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/17/2003 9:40:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, omni@XXXXXX writes: > still trying to figure out how those > multi-disk things in Harleys work...anybody have a simple explanation they > feel like offering? Power comes from crankshaft via a gear or chain to a large gear/sprocket that rides _freely_ on a bearing/bushing around one of the gear shafts (countershaft on a Harley, mainshaft on a Japanese bike.) The gear has a series of "fingers" coming out of it creating a "basket" (lay the gear on a table and the "fingers" would be sticking up like a basket.) A series of fiber coated plates/rings with tabs that fit into the "fingers" so they can slide in and out but _must_ turn with the _outer_ basket are next. The fiber plates have smooth center holes that fit _around_ an inner basket without touching it. That inner basket it firmly attached to the gear shaft but _not_ to the gear/sprocket from the crankshaft. The inner "basket" will have slots cut into its _outer_ surface and there will be metal plates with teeth cut in their _inner_ surfaces that fit into the slots in the inner basket so that they can move in and out but _must_ move with the gear shaft. So we have outer plates that MUST turn with the powered outer basket and an inner basket that MUST turn with the transmission shaft. Now alternate the plates, fiber, metal, fiber, metal until you are out of plates. At this point when you turn the crankshaft the outer basket with its fiber plates will, in fact _must_ turn. but the inner basket and its metal plates will just sit there, fiber plates sliding on metal plates with very little friction. The reverse is also true, if you roll the bike the transmission shaft will turn taking the inner basket and its metal plates with it but not affecting the fiber plates at all. Now install a spring or springs to SMASH the fiber plates and metal plates together so they cannot slide on each other. When the outer basket moves now the inner basket _must_ also move. Put in some sort of mechanism to un-smash the inner and outer plates so they can slide again and you have a motorcycle clutch. Damn, that was going to be simple..... John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 18 14:15:44 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 14:15:38 EDT Subject: Re: Volvo's 'n Buicks To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/18/2003 1:43:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rmeyer9@XXXXXX writes: > But believe me, there's no way anyone would mistake the ride for a Buick, and > no way I could feel isolated from the road. True even on a Goldwing or a KZ1300 six. I have ridden "bad" bikes but have never ridden one that isolated me from the road like a cage. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 18 14:19:30 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 14:19:18 EDT Subject: Re: Volvo's 'n Buicks To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/18/2003 1:50:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jmcgonigle@XXXXXX writes: > Be nice, physics isn't something that comes naturally to lots of people. Understatement runs rampant. Gravity _pushes_. Both true and a mind fuck. And me be nice? John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 18 14:44:27 2003 Subject: Re: Re: Volvo's 'n Buicks From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 18 Jul 2003 14:40:03 -0400 On Fri, 2003-07-18 at 13:40, Bob Meyer wrote: > > > > From: Carl Schelin > > > That may be one of the reasons I don't have a touring bike. No radio, no > > windshield, no heated seats, no reverse, no panels to redirect the > > airflow, just me, my backrest and the wind. > > A backrest! What are you, some sort of closet Gold Wing rider? Nah, wrist problems apparently. If I ride without a backrest or windshield, the outside edge of my wrists (at the joint) start getting painful. After about 30 days I can't even reach into my back pocket without severe pain. I probably need to have a narrower riding profile since I have a large sail area :-) > Seriously, I have what most would call a Touring Bike (Honda ST1100). > No radio, or heated seats, but it does have heated grips and a > windshield. But believe me, there's no way anyone would mistake the > ride for a Buick, and no way I could feel isolated from the road. > > Bob Meyer Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 18 15:58:42 2003 Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 15:57:42 -0400 To: From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: Volvo's 'n Buicks At 01:44 PM 7/18/03 -0400, Jim McGonigle wrote: > > >Be nice, physics isn't something that comes naturally to lots of people. >I always love the one that people think that if they drive into a >tractor trailer (like Knight Rider) at 50mph when the truck is going >slightly less than 50mph that they need to step on the brakes real hard >to slow down before they hit the back of the truck because now they are >going 50mph in the back of the truck. I guess it depends on how fast you get off the gas once your drive wheels are on the truck, and what the acceleration rate of your car is. :^) -- Mike "delay too long and you might be doing 50 over the truck bed" Bartman -- **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 18 15:58:47 2003 Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 15:55:09 -0400 To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Volvo's 'n Buicks At 01:38 PM 7/18/03 EDT, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: >Heard a student in a low level _Physics_ class talking about how she did not >understand why when the car hit something and stopped the people inside kept >going. In other words she did not understand why she should need seat belts. >People just do not have a clue.... Very true, but with the level of science education required to get a diploma, what do you expect? They require more P.E. classes than science classes...though you'd think that a P.E. class would instill some level of gut understanding of physics. Since they can't handle inertia (momentum) at that level, is it any wonder that they don't understand the exponential relationship between speed increase and ouch level? Some seem to think that a 60 mph crash is just twice as bad as a 30 mph crash, rather than the four times it really is...so what's another 10 or 20 mph going to do? This also relates to stopping distance, so it shouldn't be any surprise that most drivers tailgate dangerously...and end up all surprised in the middle of a 10 car pileup. Sigh. -- Mike **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 18 16:07:22 2003 Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 16:07:22 -0400 To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Mini - dilemma (actually kinda long though) At 02:13 PM 7/18/03 EDT, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: >In a message dated 7/17/2003 9:40:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >omni@XXXXXX writes: > >> still trying to figure out how those >> multi-disk things in Harleys work...anybody have a simple explanation they >> feel like offering? >Damn, that was going to be simple..... It was close enough, thank you! I'm not sure it could get much simpler, given the mechanism. I can picture it now...and all those pictures of the parts in the catalogues make a lot more sense! :^) I presume that "wet clutch", vs. "dry clutch" depends on whether there's some sort of fluid in there to keep things cool, non-grabby, and/or non-slippy? And that the more fibre/metal plate pairs you have, the less likely you are to slip at a given level of torque? And that the strength of the springs also helps determine this? And that a hydraulic clutch just substitutes oil for cable between the clutch lever and the thing that pulls the metal and fibre plates away from each other? If any of those assumptions is wrong, please let me know! :^) Thank you very much for the explanation. I knew how car clutches worked, but I couldn't picture the bike mechanism from seeing the parts laid out in pictures. Very elegant and compact! -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 18 16:16:44 2003 Reply-To: From: "Jim McGonigle" To: Subject: RE: Volvo's 'n Buicks Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 16:16:35 -0400 > This also > relates to > stopping distance, so it shouldn't be any surprise that most drivers > tailgate dangerously...and end up all surprised in the middle > of a 10 car > pileup. Sigh. > "I couldn't of rear-ended him since I have anti-lock brakes" said the last person I was in an accident with. I was surprised that the cop kept a straight face. I couldn't... -Jim From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 18 16:17:05 2003 Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 16:16:50 -0400 From: Dale Horstman To: Carl Schelin CC: "Custer, Carl" , "'DCCycles'" Subject: Re: Volvo's 'n Buicks One of those pesky Carls wrote: > That may be one of the reasons I don't have a touring bike. No radio, no > windshield, no heated seats, no reverse, no panels to redirect the > airflow, just me, my backrest and the wind. But can you ride year-round that way? If so, good for you. I like being in the wind, too. But that wind has a bit of an edge on it in January. :) Hork -- Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark) Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX "My ambition in life is to Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth minimize my stress level." CM #001 NRA IBA COG '98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer '99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi '82 Suzuki GS850G - Neat old bike From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 18 16:51:02 2003 Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 16:51:12 -0400 To: , From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: Volvo's 'n Buicks At 04:16 PM 7/18/03 -0400, Jim McGonigle wrote: > >"I couldn't of rear-ended him since I have anti-lock brakes" said the >last person I was in an accident with. I was surprised that the cop >kept a straight face. I couldn't... I heard a caller to Car Talk (Click and Clack, the tappet brothers) a few weeks ago where the lady complained that sometimes her brakes seemed to drag on the ground...like those old rotating stick things on push-cars that kids build. Tom and Ray were fiercly puzzled by this, until they enquired further and got more detail. It only happened when she braked hard, and most often on wet roads... -- Mike "they explained anti-lock brakes to her and moved on" Bartman -- **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 18 17:53:29 2003 Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 17:52:15 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: jmcgonigle@XXXXXX CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Volvo's 'n Buicks Jim McGonigle wrote: > > This also > > relates to > > stopping distance, so it shouldn't be any surprise that most drivers > > tailgate dangerously...and end up all surprised in the middle > > of a 10 car > > pileup. Sigh. > > > > "I couldn't of rear-ended him since I have anti-lock brakes" said the > last person I was in an accident with. I was surprised that the cop > kept a straight face. I couldn't... > > -Jim Hey, I always laughed out loud when I was helping a witless driver out of a snowbank and they's say "But I have front wheel drive. The salesman said..." Ho-boy, the ol' FWD goes in snow deal. Uh huh, if you go straight ahead and don't dare touch the brake pedal or attempt to take a curve at speed. Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 18 19:01:36 2003 Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 19:01:44 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Volvo's 'n Buicks At 05:52 PM 7/18/03 -0400, William J. Huson wrote: >Hey, I always laughed out loud when I was helping a witless driver out of >a snowbank and they's say "But I have front wheel drive. The salesman >said..." Ho-boy, the ol' FWD goes in snow deal. Uh huh, if you go >straight ahead and don't dare touch the brake pedal or attempt to take a >curve at speed. Years ago I was driving back to Bethesda from Bowie about 2am one Saturday night, in about 4 inches of snow that was still coming down hard. Between Colesville Rd and Georgia Avenue I was passed by a guy in a 4WD Jeep Cherokee. I was doing between 30 and 35 in the right lane of the interstate...any faster or slower and I had control problems (lack of traction or interference from snow buildup and ruts), but at that speed I was fine. He was doing at least 50. As I reached the overpass at Georgia I passed him...he was doing slow spins over in the left lanes. He forgot that all cars and trucks have at least 4 wheel support, and 4 wheel brakes, just like him...and *we* were all taking it easier that night due to conditions. 4WD is not magic, and it's just for getting going. After that it's about the same for everyone. I got home just fine in my rear-wheel drive Toyota Celica. Hope he figured out how to drive in snow too. -- Mike "why do some people think that the cure for lost traction is more gas?" Bartman -- **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 18 21:28:50 2003 From: "Mobacc" To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: Tire Advice for ZR-7 Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 21:27:09 -0400 From: David Fruehwald ...snip Any recommendations on where to get pads quickly? OEM Kawasaki parts seem to take the slow boat the wrong way round the world to get here. :-( *****Manassas HK 703 631 1633 seems to come through. Just had some minor OEMs arrive in 4 days. YMMV. Bill S. / DC '99 VN750 > Soon to the clinic. Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jul 19 01:57:22 2003 Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 01:51:57 -0400 From: Carl Parker To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: re: Volvo's 'n Buicks Imagine what's going on in their little brains: "Oh yeah, This car is soooo smoooth. It's just floating me down the road. I own the road. Just me and my road. Ommmm. Just me and my road. Ommmm. Just me and my road." Heh! We'd be so lucky. I'm thinking more along these lines: New Volvo Supersportwagon X-Country Turbo-Fourtro driver - "Oh I wonder if we'll have time to make that dinner tonight. But not until I get the kids from soccer practice which...look at this asshole. Who the hell does he think he is tailgating me on his dangerous motorcycle. I'll start slowing down 2 miles before my turn just so it can take me ten minutes can pull into the driveway. 1991 Babyblue Buick Regal driver - "I"m drreeaammiinng of a 10 bellllowww the speedlimit Chirrsstmasss..." 1989 Buick Skylark - "Man I hope I remembered my weed. I wish Dave and my ex would stop making out in the back while I drive. Damn...sumtn' smell funky." To be fair, I think Volvos are mechanically very sound cars and they do some interesting stuff. Most of the old style Volvo drivers aren't too bad cuz they usually stick to the right lane most of the time. The new Volvo drivers, however, are a bit different. Volvo's style definitely changed after they became Ford-vo. The owner of a speed shop I used to visit sometimes in Falls Church had a sweet blue Volvo Sportwagon with 18's and it looked sweet. He did G rate testing on it and everything...nice ride. But it isn't just Volvos. In my experience, some of the worse operators >appear to be in: -Toyotas (including Lexus) - definitely noticed -BMW 300s - not so much with the older style 3 series but the newer one's yeah. -Maximas - With notable (& scary) exceptions, most folks from New Jersey, New York, >Ohio, W(BG)V appear to drive fairly well. Agree with one exception...New Jersey, at least from Newark to the Caldwells, had some of the most absolutely insane pissed off unhappy ass "yeah I'm going to take it out on you" drivers I've seen in one place. Jersey shore is a bit different. I think the main things is the congestion. The more often you have to deal with someone elses particular behaviors then the more frustrated you get by having them impede your flow of things. Esp. on a bike where stopping sucks and the smoother twistier you get the better and more so if you can just keep on going and not have to stop. This is what 2 lane rural country hwys are for. Mmmm....two lane rural country highways...mmmmm :^P'''' Hip hip, Carlo From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jul 19 09:20:53 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 09:20:40 EDT Subject: Re: Volvo's 'n Buicks To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/18/2003 3:59:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, omni@XXXXXX writes: > Some seem to think that a 60 mph crash is just > twice as bad as a 30 mph crash, Hell, that is what they taught us in drivers ed. (teachers in drivers education never were the brightest bulbs.) I cannot tell you how many times I heard that "A head-on collision at 30mph. is just like hitting a brick wall at 60mph." Bullshit of course. A head-on collision at 30mph. is just like _2_ cars* hitting a brick wall at the same time while traveling side by side... At 30mph. An easier visual might be 2 cars traveling in opposite directions at 30mph. simultaneously hitting a brick wall. *The fly in the ointment of course is that we are talking about cars of equal mass. when we are talking about a motorcycle vs. a car the drivers ed. statement is very nearly true. (Or a car and a truck, worse a car and a train...) John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jul 19 09:22:53 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 09:22:44 EDT Subject: Re: Volvo's 'n Buicks To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/18/2003 3:59:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time, omni@XXXXXX writes: > so it shouldn't be any surprise that most drivers > tailgate dangerously. One of my favorite bumper stickers read, "Tailgaters failed physics" Sums it up nicely. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jul 19 09:29:54 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 09:29:46 EDT Subject: Re: Mini - dilemma (actually kinda long though) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/18/2003 4:07:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, omni@XXXXXX writes: And that the more fibre/metal plate pairs you have, the less > likely you are to slip at a given level of torque? And that the strength > of the springs also helps determine this? > If any of those assumptions is wrong, please let me know! :^) > The only thing I would say is that the larger the surface area the lower the pressure (psi.) As a result the springs have more to do with slipping then the number (or size) of the plates. Other then that I think you have it Ollie! BTW the automatic transmissions in cars use a series of motorcycle type clutches to shift. And I am not EVEN going to try to explain that one. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jul 19 09:35:09 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 09:34:58 EDT Subject: Re: Volvo's 'n Buicks To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/18/2003 7:01:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, omni@XXXXXX writes: > 4WD is not magic, and it's just for getting going. After that > it's about the same for everyone. My wifes 4wd. loses its anti lock brakes when in 4wd. (No I do not know why, I read the owners manual.) As a result I tend to start out in 4wd then switch to 2wd once I am moving. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jul 19 10:10:13 2003 Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 10:09:03 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Mini - dilemma (actually kinda long though) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > In a message dated 7/18/2003 4:07:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > omni@XXXXXX writes: > > And that the more fibre/metal plate pairs you have, the less > > likely you are to slip at a given level of torque? And that the strength > > of the springs also helps determine this? > > > If any of those assumptions is wrong, please let me know! :^) > > > The only thing I would say is that the larger the surface area the lower the > pressure (psi.) As a result the springs have more to do with slipping then the > number (or size) of the plates. > > Other then that I think you have it Ollie! > > BTW the automatic transmissions in cars use a series of motorcycle type > clutches to shift. > And I am not EVEN going to try to explain that one. > > John. > PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Yes, and auto-tranny clutch packs run wet too, like an M/C clutch. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jul 19 12:06:43 2003 Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 12:06:56 -0400 To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Mini - dilemma (actually kinda long though) At 09:29 AM 7/19/03 EDT, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: >In a message dated 7/18/2003 4:07:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >omni@XXXXXX writes: > >And that the more fibre/metal plate pairs you have, the less >> likely you are to slip at a given level of torque? And that the strength >> of the springs also helps determine this? > >> If any of those assumptions is wrong, please let me know! :^) >> >The only thing I would say is that the larger the surface area the lower the >pressure (psi.) As a result the springs have more to do with slipping then the >number (or size) of the plates. > >Other then that I think you have it Ollie! Thanks! Learning things is fun! Especially when it might help save me money, time or hassle some day! :^) >BTW the automatic transmissions in cars use a series of motorcycle type >clutches to shift. >And I am not EVEN going to try to explain that one. That's ok...hydraulics are weird, especially in transmissions. :^) -- Mike **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jul 19 12:06:43 2003 Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 12:04:46 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Volvo's 'n Buicks At 09:22 AM 7/19/03 EDT, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: >In a message dated 7/18/2003 3:59:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >omni@XXXXXX writes: > >> so it shouldn't be any surprise that most drivers >> tailgate dangerously. > >One of my favorite bumper stickers read, > >"Tailgaters failed physics" > >Sums it up nicely. The best I've seen is one that says, "That's a mighty fine looking front bumper you got there. Be a shame if something were to happen to it..." Runner-up was, "I brake for tailgaters", though I'd also like to see, "If you can read this, you may have less than two seconds to live." -- Mike **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jul 19 12:06:43 2003 Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 11:57:52 -0400 To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" From: Mike Bartman Subject: re: Volvo's 'n Buicks At 01:51 AM 7/19/03 -0400, Carl Parker wrote: >-Toyotas (including Lexus) - definitely noticed Toyotas are usually ok, it's the Hondas...I don't think any of them have ever even glanced at the driver's manual. Accosted one in a parking lot after he almost hit me by failing to yield to traffic in a traffic circle. He wanted to know if I was "a lawyer or sumthin'?" >-BMW 300s - not so much with the older style 3 series but the newer >one's yeah. BMW drivers are just nuts. Generally very competent, but nuts. They drive like they are in a road race all the time. Mostly the smaller ones though. The bigger ones drive more like Mercedes. >-Jeep wagons- Worse with "Grand Cherokee" types. The regular Cherokee's >seem to be okay from my POV. What is it about Grand Cherokees that bugs you? Just wondering if I fit the stereotype or not. >-Any hot chick driving a HUGE-MONGUS SUV's (Excursions, Excavater, >whatever) Yeah, they don't seem to have any idea how big their vehicle is...or that anyone else might want to use the road too. They are all over the road. They can't park either...though in Montgomery County, that seems to be a major problem. Only about 1 car in 4 is actually in the parking space, straight and vaguely centered, and that's on a good day. Stay away from Cabin John Center on Tuckerman...the average is even lower there. >-Uhaulers - What happens when >yuppie-boy-never-driven-a-vehicle-bigger-than-10-feet packs all his >longings into a 20 foot bed truck that's also towing his car gets behind >the wheel? I stay well away from anything rented...it's very likely the first time they've ever driven/towed it, and there's no telling what they will do. I also tend to stay away from vehicles with severe sheet metal damage...particularly to the front or sides. >With notable (& scary) exceptions, most folks from New Jersey, New >York, >>Ohio, W(BG)V appear to drive fairly well. > >Agree with one exception...New Jersey, at least from Newark to the >Caldwells, had some of the most absolutely insane pissed off unhappy ass >"yeah I'm going to take it out on you" drivers I've seen in one place. I disagree about NJ too, but for different reasons. The ones I've seen never seem to know where they are going, change their minds frequently, and don't care who gets in the way because they don't seem to be aware that anyone might be. It's not just a "out of state" thing either...they do that in New Jersey too, and other folks from out of state don't...at least not at a rate that creates a pattern. -- Mike "Grand Cherokee because sports cars are too small to get into" Bartman -- **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jul 19 12:10:35 2003 Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 12:10:36 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Volvo's 'n Buicks At 09:34 AM 7/19/03 EDT, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: >In a message dated 7/18/2003 7:01:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >omni@XXXXXX writes: > >> 4WD is not magic, and it's just for getting going. After that >> it's about the same for everyone. > >My wifes 4wd. loses its anti lock brakes when in 4wd. (No I do not know why, >I read the owners manual.) As a result I tend to start out in 4wd then switch >to 2wd once I am moving. The Pathfinder I once had was switchable from the driver's seat, but it had the annoying feature that to unlock the front hubs you had to reverse two vehicle lengths in 2WD. Since there was no front differential, this was important if you got to a place where there was traction. When you drove, as I did, on interstate, back roads and neighborhood streets to get to work, it made the 4WD almost useless except in extreme cases. I like the way the Jeep GC I have now does it: 4WD all the time. You can switch between 4WD-Hi and 4WD-Lo, but there is no 2WD setting. I've found that with the 5.2L V8, 4WD is useful even on dry pavement... :^) -- Mike **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jul 19 13:33:28 2003 Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 10:33:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Larry Larson Subject: re: Volvo's 'n Buicks To: Mike Bartman , "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" --- Mike Bartman wrote: > Toyotas are usually ok, it's the Hondas...I don't think > any of them have ever even glanced at the driver's manual. .... > >-BMW 300s - not so much with the older style 3 > series but the newer one's yeah. BMW drivers are just >nuts. Generally very competent, but nuts. .... > I disagree about NJ too, but for different reasons. The > ones I've seen > never seem to know where they are going, change their > minds frequently, and > don't care who gets in the way because they don't seem to > be aware that anyone might be. > > -- Mike "Grand Cherokee because sports cars are too small > to get into" Bartman -- Boy, Mike, you're dangerous with the generalities. How you can, for example, draw such a distinction between Toyota and Honda owners is beyond me. I'm feeling targeted. From New Jersey, own a Honda Civic Si, a 2002 BMW 325i, and a Miata; at 6'3", 210, I have no problem getting into the Miata, a Spitfire, or a Formula Ford, 'cuz I've always driven sports cars and I install a removable steering wheel when it's necessary. My personal feeling is that any car over 2,500 lbs. and any bike over 500 lbs. are too heavy, and I don't even consider them. Put everyone in smaller, lighter cars, and make them drive manual transmissions, and you'll have better drivers over time. Except those from Massachussetts, of course. They're hopeless. 8;) BTW, is that your actual last name or a "nom de Simpson" political statement? -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jul 19 13:42:10 2003 Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 13:52:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: re: Volvo's 'n Buicks On Sat, 19 Jul 2003, Larry Larson wrote: > I'm feeling targeted. From New Jersey, own a Honda Civic > Si, a 2002 BMW 325i, and a Miata; at 6'3", 210, I have no > problem getting into the Miata, a Spitfire, or a Formula > Ford, 'cuz I've always driven sports cars and I install a > removable steering wheel when it's necessary. > > My personal feeling is that any car over 2,500 lbs. and any > bike over 500 lbs. are too heavy, and I don't even consider > them. Uh, Larry, both your Bimmer and your Honda are well over 2500lbs and your Miata *barely* makes it under that mark. :-) Guess you better sell those pigs quick! -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jul 19 16:01:48 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: Re: Volvo's 'n Buicks Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 15:06:00 -0400 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79a00ee90a57052f947107b5a89ad4a311350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Mike Bartman opined: > BMW drivers are just nuts. Generally very competent, but nuts. They drive > like they are in a road race all the time. Mostly the smaller ones though. > The bigger ones drive more like Mercedes. [Dave] Holy bavarian creme donuts bartman ! Seeing the BMWs at an Auto-x or Summit Point will put you in touch with a whole new level of BMW drivers, rendering "nuts" useless as a descriptive term. While they are few, the 'enthusiast' Bimmer drivers are pretty good as a general rule, and those M3's are truly an excellent machine. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jul 19 16:05:46 2003 Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 15:00:51 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Mike Bartman CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Volvo's 'n Buicks Mike Bartman wrote: > At 09:22 AM 7/19/03 EDT, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > >In a message dated 7/18/2003 3:59:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > >omni@XXXXXX writes: > > > >> so it shouldn't be any surprise that most drivers > >> tailgate dangerously. > > > >One of my favorite bumper stickers read, > > > >"Tailgaters failed physics" > > > >Sums it up nicely. > > The best I've seen is one that says, "That's a mighty fine looking front > bumper you got there. Be a shame if something were to happen to it..." > > Runner-up was, "I brake for tailgaters", though I'd also like to see, "If > you can read this, you may have less than two seconds to live." > > -- Mike and then there's my bumper sticker... "Pardon me, but is that your nose up my ass?" From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jul 19 21:02:35 2003 Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 18:01:57 -0700 (PDT) From: David Fruehwald Subject: New Tires for ZR-7 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Is mounting new tires something best hired out? Does someone on the list have the tools, knowledge, etc and would be willing to help out for some beer or other suitable beverages of your choice. I only ask as I have not been too impressed with timeliness of the shops I have tried so far. The easy choice is a new set of Dunlop D220's any other recommendations? I want to keep the sport/touring compromise although I have thought of trying the sportier D208 although I know they will wear down faster and I don't think I push it that hard. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jul 19 22:22:36 2003 Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 19:22:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Larry Larson Subject: re: Volvo's 'n Buicks To: Wayne Edelen , "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" --- Wayne Edelen wrote: > Uh, Larry, both your Bimmer and your Honda are well over > 2500lbs and your > Miata *barely* makes it under that mark. :-) Guess you > better sell those pigs quick! Actually, it's an older Civic Si, <2200 lbs; the Miata is a '95 R package, highly prepped for autox and Solo I, <2300 lbs; and the Bimmer is my wife's big pig behomoth of a car. 8;) -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jul 19 22:28:12 2003 Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 22:26:13 -0400 Subject: 9643 miles and 33 days on the road From: Bob McKeithen To: DC Cycles , MGCL , Alan Ribner , Gus/Bill McKeithen , Kay Allhiser , Bill Ford , Brian Ward , Kevin Krasner , I am back and alive and well. More after I beat this grass into submission. Bob From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Jul 20 10:48:23 2003 Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 07:48:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Moto Scabbards. Now that I've escaped the Socialist Republic of Chicago, it's legal for me to own guns. Woot. One problem, though: I'm moto-only now, so carrying rifles becomes, err, problematic. Does anyone know of a good source for rifle scabbards which you can sling to a motorcycle? I suppose I could always sling a rifle over my shoulder, but that would probably draw a little more official attention than I'd really like. (Might be good to keep the bimbo-boxes away from me on the highway, though.) I'd want something which can be securely fastened alongside the bike. Weatherproof would be nice, but probably not essential. Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Jul 20 12:59:17 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: Moto Scabbards. Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 12:58:50 -0400 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec7917eba91736b5ea96100f4e723f67ee08350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Fish found: > Now that I've escaped the Socialist Republic of Chicago, it's legal for me > to own guns. Woot. One problem, though: I'm moto-only now, so carrying > rifles becomes, err, problematic. [Dave] Not to be a problem much longer, I'm sure guns will be outlawed in md within 5 years. No sense wasting your money on them now, they'll just be confiscated ... Md's only manufacturer won't sell guns in MD anymore ... (Beretta) > > Does anyone know of a good source for rifle scabbards which you can sling > to a motorcycle? I suppose I could always sling a rifle over my shoulder, > but that would probably draw a little more official attention than I'd > really like. (Might be good to keep the bimbo-boxes away from me on the > highway, though.) [Dave] 1st, I wouldn't reccomend it, that's why you have friends with pickup trucks ;-) 2nd, I wouldn't reccomend it. 3rd, if you did do this, and went down, that nice rifle is going to be ballistic. Depending on size, you could get a guitar case instead, and convert it to firearms use. There's a guy on subguns.com doing it for about 1 bill, depending on the size. None of the cases are going to survive a moto crash. Most gun shops - you *do* still have those in MD right? anyway, most have 'luggage' class long gun cases, and if they can survive the TSA goons, and that gorilla that American Tourister uses, it should do ok to transport a rifile... > > I'd want something which can be securely fastened alongside the bike. > Weatherproof would be nice, but probably not essential. [Dave] Handugns are much easier to transport with tank, tail & saddle bags, and holster. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Jul 20 13:59:20 2003 Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 10:59:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Moto Scabbards. On Sun, 20 Jul 2003, Dave Yates wrote: > I'm sure guns will be outlawed in md within 5 years. Unlikely; Ehrlich hasn't managed to re-legalize them yet, but he is 100% guaranteed to veto any further anti-gun legislation so long as he remains in office. (I hope.) > No sense wasting your money on them now, they'll just be confiscated ... > Md's only manufacturer won't sell guns in MD anymore ... (Beretta) Isn't Beretta technically an importer? There's also Benelli/Franchi/Stoeger, out of Accokeek, who do sell guns in MD. > Handugns are much easier to transport with tank, tail & saddle bags, and > holster. True, but are even more problematic to come by than rifles, especially since many of the better pistols don't conform to our wonderful new trigger-lock legislation. *spit* Anyway, your points on rifle fragility are well-taken. Guess I hadn't really thought about that... though, to be honest, I'm not certain a good rifle would be all that happy in a car crash, either. Guess I'll stick with my AR-7 in a tail bag. Ah well. Moto-hunting is probably a sport whose time has not yet come, anyway. :) Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Jul 20 15:08:31 2003 Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 12:08:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Moto Scabbards. To: Fish Flowers , DC-Cycles If I recall correctly from my summer in chicago (great city btw) long guns were always legal there. Perhaps not AKs but standard rifles/shotguns. Handguns were a no no. --- Fish Flowers wrote: > Now that I've escaped the Socialist Republic of > Chicago, it's legal for me > to own guns. Woot. One problem, though: I'm > moto-only now, so carrying > rifles becomes, err, problematic. > > Does anyone know of a good source for rifle > scabbards which you can sling > to a motorcycle? I suppose I could always sling a > rifle over my shoulder, > but that would probably draw a little more official > attention than I'd > really like. (Might be good to keep the bimbo-boxes > away from me on the > highway, though.) > > I'd want something which can be securely fastened > alongside the bike. > Weatherproof would be nice, but probably not > essential. > > Fish. > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Jul 20 15:31:27 2003 Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 15:30:18 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Fish Flowers CC: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Moto Scabbards. I get it! You need to pack a gun so the next time one of your budget beater bikes goes tits up on the road you can put the damn thing out of its misery! Shoot it, like cowboys did lame horses! Bill Fish Flowers wrote: > Now that I've escaped the Socialist Republic of Chicago, it's legal for me > to own guns. Woot. One problem, though: I'm moto-only now, so carrying > rifles becomes, err, problematic. > > Does anyone know of a good source for rifle scabbards which you can sling > to a motorcycle? I suppose I could always sling a rifle over my shoulder, > but that would probably draw a little more official attention than I'd > really like. (Might be good to keep the bimbo-boxes away from me on the > highway, though.) > > I'd want something which can be securely fastened alongside the bike. > Weatherproof would be nice, but probably not essential. > > Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Jul 20 17:56:24 2003 From: "Dave Yates" Cc: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: Moto Scabbards. Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 17:55:54 -0400 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79b7fd4a852c6d226752d58208bb392b75350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Bill opined: > I get it! You need to pack a gun so the next time one of your budget beater > bikes goes tits up on the road you can put the damn thing out of its misery! > Shoot it, like cowboys did lame horses! [Dave] I have found shooting carges that have failed me to be much less satisfying than beating them to oblivion with blunt force trauma instruments. This is also more effective on tools which fail, are executed, and find their way into my "Hall of Slain Tools", where they serve as a warning to all of my other tools: Work, or Die. Horses you put out of their misery, vehicles you put out of your own misery. Dave > > Bill > > Fish Flowers wrote: > > > Now that I've escaped the Socialist Republic of Chicago, it's legal for me > > to own guns. Woot. One problem, though: I'm moto-only now, so carrying > > rifles becomes, err, problematic. > > > > Does anyone know of a good source for rifle scabbards which you can sling > > to a motorcycle? I suppose I could always sling a rifle over my shoulder, > > but that would probably draw a little more official attention than I'd > > really like. (Might be good to keep the bimbo-boxes away from me on the > > highway, though.) > > > > I'd want something which can be securely fastened alongside the bike. > > Weatherproof would be nice, but probably not essential. > > > > Fish. > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Jul 20 18:20:39 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: Moto Scabbards. Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 18:20:10 -0400 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79fece6fe27a88c8f819126bf377eab5fd350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Fish fantasized: > > I'm sure guns will be outlawed in md within 5 years. > > Unlikely; Ehrlich hasn't managed to re-legalize them yet, but he is 100% > guaranteed to veto any further anti-gun legislation so long as he remains > in office. (I hope.) [Dave] Don't count your chickens... > > No sense wasting your money on them now, they'll just be confiscated ... > > Md's only manufacturer won't sell guns in MD anymore ... (Beretta) > > Isn't Beretta technically an importer? There's also > Benelli/Franchi/Stoeger, out of Accokeek, who do sell guns in MD. [Dave] They're both (Accokeek trivia to follow), the factory at Accokeek manufactures all the new 90 series pistols, 8000 series, some 9000 series, and they assemble shotgun parts from italy. The assembly robots are quite impressive, resulting really decent fit, function & finish... Only to be topped on piece of shit parts like their extractors, costing the company something like 1/3 of a cent, but render them useless when they break - a whole nother rant. About 3 years ago, Beretta started really skimping on their part suppliers - safety levers, and machined parts not made in house, and the new suppliers are selling them total shit. The factory also sells (only to distributors) Tikka rifles, Benelli shotguns and other assorted Beretta firearms. Beretta makes some really nice long guns, and, their 1201 series shotguns and the Benelli m1/m3 operating systems are very similar. The Beretta is about 1/2 the cost ;-) > True, but are even more problematic to come by than rifles, especially > since many of the better pistols don't conform to our wonderful new > trigger-lock legislation. *spit* [Dave] Obviously, you don't spend much time in the Nation's capital ;-) > Anyway, your points on rifle fragility are well-taken. Guess I hadn't > really thought about that... though, to be honest, I'm not certain a good > rifle would be all that happy in a car crash, either. > > Guess I'll stick with my AR-7 in a tail bag. Ah well. Moto-hunting is > probably a sport whose time has not yet come, anyway. :) [Dave] Hopefully, I won't be able to opine on the accident worthiness of cased guns in a crash from a 1st person perspective. The point I was trying to make was that in a cage, the case gets beat around a bit, but generally stays in the cage, on a bike, they're airborne as soon as the bike starts to tumble, and in any event, it will take a lot more impact. As for moto-hunting... You're ahead of your time Fish ;-) Dave From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Jul 20 22:25:48 2003 Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 19:25:43 -0700 (PDT) From: dcpatti Subject: Re: New Tires for ZR-7 To: David Fruehwald , dc-cycles@XXXXXX You can mount the tires yourself but, in my opinion, it is a really annoying job even with the right toosl, and it's well worth the fee to have it done for you. I'd recommend Cycle Sport in Alexandria. I am sure someone on the list has had a bad experience with them, just like any other shop or dealer, but I have always found them to be cheap, easy and painless to do business with. I needed a new tire and it had to get done Saturday, which I thought was going to be a nightmare. I went to Cycle Sport because they were the closest with the right tire in stock, but they also had the best price locally (and best I have found so far online is only $8 less when you add in the shipping). I pulled the wheel off, threw it in the truck, took it to the shop, and went to go have lunch. When I came back, the tire was done, and they told me I probably didn't even need to go have lunch because the job was done in about 15 minutes. Mounting cost somewhere around $22, not sure if they jacked me or not, but in my opinion worth it... no struggling, no cussing, and I had the whole rest of the day to play on my new tire. http://www.yamaha-motor.com/dealers/dealerprofile.asp?dlrno=AIJFHA Cheers, patti __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Jul 20 22:42:25 2003 Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 22:41:55 -0400 To: DC-Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Moto Scabbards. At 07:48 AM 7/20/03 -0700, Fish Flowers wrote: >Now that I've escaped the Socialist Republic of Chicago, it's legal for me >to own guns. Woot. One problem, though: I'm moto-only now, so carrying >rifles becomes, err, problematic. > >Does anyone know of a good source for rifle scabbards which you can sling >to a motorcycle? I suppose I could always sling a rifle over my shoulder, >but that would probably draw a little more official attention than I'd >really like. (Might be good to keep the bimbo-boxes away from me on the >highway, though.) > >I'd want something which can be securely fastened alongside the bike. >Weatherproof would be nice, but probably not essential. Could you make one from PVC pipe? It's easy to cut and drill, cheap, light, fairly sturdy, waterproof, and completely non-threatening looking. Padded with foam it should hold a rifle well. Mounted vertically, someone may just think it's an oversized exhaust pipe. :^) The reason I ask, is that yesterday at the local HD dealer there was a guy with a trike who walked with a crutch (Polio maybe?), and he had a piece of black-painted PVC sticking up alongside behind the seat, like a fishing rod holder on a trolling boat, to carry the crutch. Something like that, perhaps with an end-cap, might work for a rifle if you used 6" diameter tubing. Get some accessory backets and bolt them to the tube and then clamp them to the bike? -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Jul 20 22:42:27 2003 Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 22:34:09 -0400 To: Larry Larson , "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" From: Mike Bartman Subject: re: Volvo's 'n Buicks At 10:33 AM 7/19/03 -0700, Larry Larson wrote: >--- Mike Bartman wrote: >> Toyotas are usually ok, it's the Hondas...I don't think >> any of them have ever even glanced at the driver's >manual. >.... >> >-BMW 300s - not so much with the older style 3 >> series but the newer one's yeah. BMW drivers are just >>nuts. Generally very competent, but nuts. >.... >> I disagree about NJ too, but for different reasons. The >> ones I've seen >> never seem to know where they are going, change their >> minds frequently, and >> don't care who gets in the way because they don't seem to >> be aware that anyone might be. >> >> -- Mike "Grand Cherokee because sports cars are too small >> to get into" Bartman -- > >Boy, Mike, you're dangerous with the generalities. How you >can, for example, draw such a distinction between Toyota >and Honda owners is beyond me. Just call 'em like I see 'em. Don't know if the car stereotypes have any utility outside of this area...haven't done enough driving elsewhere to build up enough events for a pattern, but around here it seems to me to work out. As for being targetted, I'll repeat what I said earlier: stereotypes are often valid and useful, but it should always be remembered that not everyone who fits into a group, fits the group's stereotype. When you know for a fact that a given individual doesn't match the stereotype, you have to forget it where they are concerned (not doing this is bigotry, and very stupid). The utility of stereotypes is for when you *don't* have any other information...and only for as long as it takes to get some. You need *some* basis for making decisions when decisions are called for, and if a stereotype is all you've got, you use it...but keep in mind that it's often of poor quality, and perhaps completely wrong in a given case. To show why stereotypes are needed, let's say that you are walking down a dark street late at night. You realize someone is walking behind you, and catching up. You turn to look and you see a large fit-looking 20-something in gang colors. Are you at all nervous about this? Heightened alertness? Paying attention to where he is, where you might go if needed, who else is around, etc.? If you are smart, probably yes to all of these things. Now, instead, you turn and you see a young woman carrying a shopping bag. Is your reaction the same as with the young man? If not, why not? I suggest that you are using stereotypes...you don't know either of these people, but you know about people who look like them, and you assume, for the moment, that each of them matches their stereotype. Until and unless you learn more about them as individuals, what else can you do? Be paranoid about everyone? NOT be paranoid about anyone? Neither of these is a very workable solution...so we use stereotypes. BTW - the young man is an undercover cop on his way to a drug sting. The young woman is Sally the Slasher, known armed robbery perpetrator, whose M.O. is to come up behind unsuspecting people, and then whip a large knife out of her shopping bag and slash their throats, then rob them while they try to control the bleeding. Have a nice night! :^) >at 6'3", 210, I have no >problem getting into the Miata, a Spitfire, or a Formula >Ford, 'cuz I've always driven sports cars and I install a >removable steering wheel when it's necessary. At 6'6" and 275 (with a 34" inseam and size 13 shoes)), I have lots of problems driving lots of vehicles. The usual problem is insufficient leg and head room. When the seat-back to foot pedal distance is shorter than my leg length, I have to stick a knee up or out to get into place...and if they've put a dash (Montero), center console (Pathfinder), parking brake (4-Runner) or some other bit of vehicle in all the places I might put a knee, I can't drive the vehicle. When the roof line is too low I have to lean the seat back to make room, and that requires that my arms get longer to reach the wheel. If the angle isn't too bad, this is possible (Jeep GC), otherwise it isn't. With some vehicles (Toyota Camrey) I can just tilt my head to the side a little and squeeze in, but this isn't practical for more than a short trip. An extra 2 or 3 inches can be a *huge* difference as far as fit goes...if I was 1/2" taller, I wouldn't be able to drive the Jeep either...and I can't drive the ones made after '99...they lowered the roof line. >My personal feeling is that any car over 2,500 lbs. and any >bike over 500 lbs. are too heavy, and I don't even consider >them. Put everyone in smaller, lighter cars, and make them >drive manual transmissions, and you'll have better drivers >over time. Except those from Massachussetts, of course. >They're hopeless. 8;) Glad to see you have your own stereotypes. :^) Make the cars smaller if you like, but don't shrink the driver space. VW has shown many times that you can do both...it would be nice if other countries' car makers would figure out the trick too. Or re-learn it (I used to drive an '82 Toyota Celica...tight, but I managed). They will, or they won't get any more business from me...I'll be restoring some old 50's or 60's car. Back then cars came in adult sizes! >BTW, is that your actual last name or a "nom de Simpson" >political statement? Actual last name. I've considered suing the Simpsons for using it without permission, but decided just to never ever watch the show instead. That was much easier, as I wasn't watching it anyway... -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Jul 20 22:49:26 2003 Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 22:46:34 -0400 To: Fish Flowers , DC-Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Moto Scabbards. At 10:59 AM 7/20/03 -0700, Fish Flowers wrote: >On Sun, 20 Jul 2003, Dave Yates wrote: > >> I'm sure guns will be outlawed in md within 5 years. > >Unlikely; Ehrlich hasn't managed to re-legalize them yet, but he is 100% >guaranteed to veto any further anti-gun legislation so long as he remains >in office. (I hope.) Me too...though I do have plans to move to Virginia if he doesn't. Might move anyway if he doesn't make progress in getting us back to a Free State again... >> Handugns are much easier to transport with tank, tail & saddle bags, and >> holster. > >True, but are even more problematic to come by than rifles, especially >since many of the better pistols don't conform to our wonderful new >trigger-lock legislation. *spit* A defacto ban, which that is, is a good case to take to court to get the whole thing thrown out and set a good precedent. The 2nd Amendment is pretty clear, particularly when you read the words of the people who wrote it about what they meant by it and why they put it there. For the SC to ignore all of that seems unlikely...which is probably why they tend to not accept 2nd Amendment cases...they know what they'd have to rule. -- Mike "they've ruled properly every time they've gotten close though" Bartman -- **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Jul 20 23:19:40 2003 Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 20:19:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Moto Scabbards. On Sun, 20 Jul 2003, William J. Huson wrote: > I get it! You need to pack a gun so the next time one of your budget > beater bikes goes tits up on the road you can put the damn thing out of > its misery! Shoot it, like cowboys did lame horses! Sarcasm? I don't _need_ to pack a gun; I'd just like to bring a gun to the range for target practice. And, yeah, I ride beater bikes, because I can't afford any better. Maybe someday I'll be able to swing an ST1300 or R1150RS, but for now I'll settle for anything which gets me from Point A to Point B on two wheels. Which is not to say that I haven't considered putting 170 grains of 8mm Mauser through the carburetors... Fish. not as bloodthirsty as he might seem From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 00:03:19 2003 Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 21:03:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Larry Larson Subject: re: Volvo's 'n Buicks To: Mike Bartman , "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" --- Mike Bartman wrote: > >....drive manual transmissions, and you'll have better > drivers > >over time. Except those from Massachussetts, of course. > >They're hopeless. 8;) > > Glad to see you have your own stereotypes. :^) Nah, just judgment guided by experience. 8;) > Make the cars smaller if you like, but don't shrink the > driver space. VW > has shown many times that you can do both...it would be > nice if other > countries' car makers would figure out the trick too. Agreed. I had a terrific 1984 Audi 5000 -- 5 cyl, 5-speed, four doors, and a ton of room front and back. Weight: 2900 lbs. I can find no car to equal that one today. -- Larry (also 34" inseam, shoes only size 12 8;() __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 09:57:50 2003 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 06:56:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Jordan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Moto Scabbards. A number of options - Slinging it across your back is certainly an option, and will provide a nice dinner conversation topic for the benighted masses ;-) Part II on above is a soft gun case with a shoulder sling. Reasonably weatherproof and will tend to mask the object within somewhat. Another alternative would be a rifle scabbard made for an ATV - they're all over the place. Try the bike shops in the more rural areas for instant gratification. Also look at Cabela's catalog - www.cabelas.com. They have a black vinyl gun boot for ATVs for about $40. Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 10:39:37 2003 Subject: Re: Volvo's 'n Buicks From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 21 Jul 2003 10:35:18 -0400 On Fri, 2003-07-18 at 16:16, Dale Horstman wrote: > One of those pesky Carls wrote: > > > That may be one of the reasons I don't have a touring bike. No radio, no > > windshield, no heated seats, no reverse, no panels to redirect the > > airflow, just me, my backrest and the wind. > > But can you ride year-round that way? If so, good for you. I like > being in the wind, too. But that wind has a bit of an edge on it > in January. :) > Yep. The coldest work day was 8 degrees. I had on long-johns, jeans and chaps; flannel shirt, Gerbing heated jacket liner and leather jacket; Gerbing heated gloves, boots, full-face helmet and a fairly thin scarf. It only takes about 35 minutes to get to work at 5am and not much longer to get home. The cold starts sinking in at about Springfield, mainly on the tops of my thighs. With the windshield, I get a massive updraft that causes a great deal of turbulence. Without, it's a straight on wind and I can tuck my chin in. A couple of times, my pony tail froze :-) and a couple of pucker-factor stretches of ice on the 14th street bridge and on Independance. > Hork I have to say, I'd prefer the coldest day over the heat and humity of the past few days. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 10:45:43 2003 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 07:45:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Moto Scabbards. To: Fish Flowers , DC-Cycles get creative with bungy and/or tie down straps. and, once you've mounted it in what you feel is the best position, you can then fashion braces at various points of your frame. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 10:49:21 2003 Subject: Amazing From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 21 Jul 2003 10:45:06 -0400 While coming in this morning (9:30 or so) on the 14th street bridge, I slowly passed a 95th Edition H-D Tourer (Road King maybe) with a guy sitting on it wearing a Giro Bicycle Helmet. I noticed the grooves as I approached on his left and thought they looked familiar (I ride mountain bikes too). Must be a hot one today :-) Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 10:51:35 2003 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 07:51:07 -0700 (PDT) From: matthew patton Subject: Re: New Tires for ZR-7 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX easy answer. Michelin Pilot Road's. Wow, they are nice. I had BT-20's on the -7s stock and they're good too but they tended to cup and howl. The Pilots' are nice! ===== * Love, not time, heals all wounds. * No one is perfect until you fall in love with them. And then when they aren't perfect anymore, love makes them perfect again. * Everyone wants to live on top of the mountain, but all the happiness and growth occurs while you're climbing it * You can not forgive unless you first love. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 10:56:35 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:56:25 EDT Subject: Re: Volvo's 'n Buicks To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > >One of my favorite bumper stickers read, > > > > > >"Tailgaters failed physics" Onother one.... "Driver chews tobacco" John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 11:01:59 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:01:46 EDT Subject: Re: Moto Scabbards. To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/20/2003 10:48:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time, fish@XXXXXX writes: > Does anyone know of a good source for rifle scabbards which you can sling > to a motorcycle? I have often seen em on ATVs, might look in an ATV shop or magazine. Does not seem worth the effort to me though, hell it is a pain in the ass to carry a pocket knife around here anymore. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 11:54:53 2003 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:54:18 -0400 From: Dale Horstman To: Fish Flowers CC: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Moto Scabbards. Fish Flowers wrote: > > Guess I'll stick with my AR-7 in a tail bag. Ah well. Moto-hunting is > probably a sport whose time has not yet come, anyway. :) Fish, I've thought about getting an AR-7 myself, just so I can take the bike on hunting trips (all the state game lands are on great moto roads, so it seems). I have packed a dis-assembled cheapy shotgun in a duffel bag on the back seat to go squirrel hunting, but I'm not gonna risk the optics on my deer rifle with similar rough treatment. Besides, if I did bag a buck, getting it to the slaughterhouse on the back of the bike would be problematic, at best. :) I'm still considering a getting a big-ass handgun with scope for deer hunting, easier to carry in the brush, easier to carry on the bike. Let my hunting buddies carry bambi home in their trunk. Yeah, that's it. :) Hork -- Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark) Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX "My ambition in life is to Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth minimize my stress level." CM #001 NRA IBA COG '98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer '99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi '82 Suzuki GS850G - Neat old bike From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 12:00:48 2003 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:00:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Moto Scabbards. On Mon, 21 Jul 2003, Dale Horstman wrote: > I've thought about getting an AR-7 myself, just so I can take the bike > on hunting trips (all the state game lands are on great moto roads, so > it seems). I actually can't recommend the AR-7 very highly. The breakdown capability is nice, but reliability is pretty sub-par; misfeeds and stovepipes are common. Could be I just got a crummy unit, though -- I've been thinking about taking it to a gunsmith (or sending it back to the factory) to see if it can be made to work correctly. > Besides, if I did bag a buck, getting it to the slaughterhouse on the > back of the bike would be problematic, at best. :) Yeah, I've been wondering about how you'd get Bambi home. Tricky, that. Hmm. Fish. going to upstate ny this year to do his bit at bambi-thinning From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 12:09:07 2003 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:06:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Jordan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Moto Scabbards. >Fish. >going to upstate ny this year to do his bit at bambi-thinning Virginia needs your assistance - thin the local herds first!!!!! From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 12:18:30 2003 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:22:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Moto Scabbards. From: Steve Miller To: It's worse in upstate NY, I think (Western MA, too). On one gray drizzly day of riding I saw more deer on the road than I've seen in the past two years in rural Virginia. They should seriously consider extending the season in many states. And by "they" I mean those who think we need deer around at all. Rats with antlers, I say. on 7/21/03 9:06 AM, Michael Jordan at mjordan812@XXXXXX wrote: >> Fish. >> going to upstate ny this year to do his bit at bambi-thinning > > Virginia needs your assistance - thin the local herds first!!!!! > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 12:24:45 2003 Subject: Re: Re: Moto Scabbards. From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 21 Jul 2003 12:20:29 -0400 On Mon, 2003-07-21 at 09:06, Michael Jordan wrote: > >Fish. > >going to upstate ny this year to do his bit at bambi-thinning > > Virginia needs your assistance - thin the local herds first!!!!! > We were grazing cable and stopped at People Magazine News, I mean, MSNBC and found a brief dust up over a Hunting for Bambi organization based outside Las Vegas. http://www.huntingforbambi.com http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/bambi.asp notes it as false, btw. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 12:26:35 2003 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:22:28 -0400 To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" From: Mike Bartman Subject: re: Volvo's 'n Buicks...and FLSTC foot controls... At 09:03 PM 7/20/03 -0700, Larry Larson wrote: >-- Larry (also 34" inseam, shoes only size 12 8;() Well, I wear a 12 sometimes...depends on the maker. 12EE, or 13D. I checked my sneakers against a HD FLSTC Saturday...the distance between the front and back shifters is 1/2" shorter than my foot...apparently about a size 11 is the biggest they figured anyone would wear. I did get a really good pointer to a place that sells what I will need to ride that bike though: Bubba's Brakes. They sell extended foot controls and relocated floorboards for HDs. The floorboard kit moves the FBs ahead 2", and extends the shift lever almost 3", while moving the rear brake to the leading edge of the extended FBs, and moving it inboard a little so you can get on and off of it a LOT easier than the stupidly designed HD one that sits over the front 1/3 of the FB. No way to be certain without actually doing it, but from the pictures, and from my "test fits" on the FLSTC, it appears that Bubba's is exactly what I'll need to make the bike rideable at all. http://www.bubbasbrake.com/ -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 12:28:53 2003 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:28:27 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Moto Scabbards. On Mon, 21 Jul 2003, Steve Miller wrote: > It's worse in upstate NY, I think (Western MA, too). On one gray drizzly > day of riding I saw more deer on the road than I've seen in the past two > years in rural Virginia. They should seriously consider extending the > season in many states. And by "they" I mean those who think we need deer > around at all. Rats with antlers, I say. Not "rural" VA -- rather, Fairfax county. Like, in between the sprawl and such. There are no natural predators anymore, and, for the most part, not a whole lot of hunting. > on 7/21/03 9:06 AM, Michael Jordan at mjordan812@XXXXXX wrote: > > >> Fish. > >> going to upstate ny this year to do his bit at bambi-thinning > > > > Virginia needs your assistance - thin the local herds first!!!!! > > > > -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 12:32:35 2003 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:36:56 -0400 Subject: Re: Moto Scabbards. From: Steve Miller To: on 7/21/03 12:28 PM, Daniel H. Brown at brown@XXXXXX wrote: > Not "rural" VA -- rather, Fairfax county. Like, in between the sprawl and > such. There are no natural predators anymore, and, for the most part, not > a whole lot of hunting. > Is it legal to hunt anywhere in Fairfax Co., even? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 12:39:01 2003 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:37:49 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Steve Miller CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Moto Scabbards. Steve Miller wrote: > on 7/21/03 12:28 PM, Daniel H. Brown at brown@XXXXXX wrote: > > > Not "rural" VA -- rather, Fairfax county. Like, in between the sprawl and > > such. There are no natural predators anymore, and, for the most part, not > > a whole lot of hunting. > > > > Is it legal to hunt anywhere in Fairfax Co., even? Far as I know, it's illegal to discharge a firearm in Fairfax County. Bill - bows are silent and lethal, I own two... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 12:44:22 2003 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:44:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Moto Scabbards. To: "William J. Huson" , Steve Miller Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I think you can hunt, but the property must be >50 acres. That is very rare. --- "William J. Huson" wrote: > Steve Miller wrote: > > > on 7/21/03 12:28 PM, Daniel H. Brown at > brown@XXXXXX wrote: > > > > > Not "rural" VA -- rather, Fairfax county. Like, > in between the sprawl and > > > such. There are no natural predators anymore, > and, for the most part, not > > > a whole lot of hunting. > > > > > > > Is it legal to hunt anywhere in Fairfax Co., even? > > Far as I know, it's illegal to discharge a firearm > in Fairfax County. > > Bill - bows are silent and lethal, I own two... > > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 12:57:46 2003 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:56:42 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: Lawyers? (non-moto request) Well, my job as a searcher involves dealing with patent lawyers all the time, and it finally happened. Apparently, one of those rat bastards screwed me out of more'n $1000. He ordered via snail-mail 5 prosecution histories and I had them photocopied and sent them out. Delivary refused. My question for you on-site lawyers: If RB lawyer doesn't honor his contract and pay me soon, would I file suit in federal court? Interstate commerce, his firm is in Indiana. Or file in local court where I live, or file In *shiver* Indiana? And if he claims he issued a stop order, which I never recieved, do I stand a chance? Bill - needs the $$$ - yearly M/C insurance due this month... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 13:09:47 2003 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:09:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Lawyers? (non-moto request) To: "William J. Huson" , "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" --- "William J. Huson" wrote: > Well, my job as a searcher involves dealing with patent > lawyers all the > time, and it finally happened. Apparently, one of those > rat bastards > screwed me out of more'n $1000. He ordered via > snail-mail 5 > prosecution histories and I had them photocopied and sent > them out. > Delivary refused. > > My question for you on-site lawyers: If RB lawyer doesn't > honor his > contract and pay me soon, would I file suit in federal > court? > Interstate commerce, his firm is in Indiana. Or file in > local court > where I live, or file In *shiver* Indiana? And if he > claims he issued a > stop order, which I never recieved, do I stand a chance? file locally in state court. your claim isn't even close to the threshold for diversity jurisdiction in federal court. and, if he initiated the contact with you, personal jurisdiction should be a non-issue. you stand a chance because the issue of the stop order will create a factual dispute necessitating a hearing. your claim sounds like it will be a small claims action, and the defendant will likely settle rather than coming here to defend it. of course, this is all simplified and i recommend you either (i) contact an attorney licensed in the jurisdiction where the claim arose or will be brought; or (ii) do some research on litigating a small claims case pro se. > Bill - needs the $$$ - yearly M/C insurance due this > month... > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 13:14:41 2003 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:14:35 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Sean Jordan Subject: Re: Moto Scabbards. >In a message dated 7/20/2003 10:48:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >fish@XXXXXX writes: > > > Does anyone know of a good source for rifle scabbards which you can sling > > to a motorcycle? If you want to be discrete, pickup a guitar gig-bag. Cheap, plenty of room, multiple pockets, and it won't look conspicuous. (If that's a concern.) -Sean Jordan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 13:17:45 2003 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 13:17:23 -0400 From: STmaven@XXXXXX To: dcpatti@XXXXXX, dfruehwald@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: New Tires for ZR-7 i got my tires mounted at cycle sport. they only $40 charged me to mount my dunlop 208's on my R6. they got me in and out in about 30 or so minutes. they road around the parking lot to make sure everything was a-ok. i also road made sure everything was a go before i headed out west to scrub in the 208's. met up with the group and said there is no better place to test out the new tires other then hitting RT 211 and the back roads. the 208's a lot better then the 207's. i went through 2 sets of the 207. the main reason i want with the 207 was tire mileage life. the 208 are very sticker then then 207. after a few run up and down 211 made the sides of my look like it had a bad shave. they smoothed out after my ride the next day b/c i wasn't pushing it as hard aroud the turns. but over all i like the tires. when you touch the tires when they are hot they stick to you and are soft to the touch. i would recommened a set. if you take it easy and not rail all the time they should last you 8k or so. aft r a few days of riding no problems with the tire mounting so cycle sport did a good job. -mark In a message dated 7/20/2003 9:25:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, dcpatti@XXXXXX writes: > > > You can mount the tires yourself but, in my opinion,> it is a really annoying job even with the right toosl,> and it's well worth the fee to have it done for you. > > I'd recommend Cycle Sport in Alexandria. I am sure> someone on the list has had a bad experience with> them, just like any other shop or dealer, but I have> always found them to be cheap, easy and painless to do> business with.> > I needed a new tire and it had to get done Saturday,> which I thought was going to be a nightmare. I went to> Cycle Sport because they were the closest with the> right tire in stock, but they also had the best price> locally (and best I have found so far online is only> $8 less when you add in the shipping). I pulled the> wheel off, threw it in the truck, took it to the shop,> and went to go have lunch. When I came back, the tire> was done, and they told me I probably didn't even need> to go have lunch because the job was done in about 15> minutes. Mounting cost somewhere around $22, not sure> > if they jack d me or not, but in my opinion worth> it... no struggling, no cussing, and I had the whole> rest of the day to play on my new tire. > > http://www.yamaha-motor.com/dealers/dealerprofile.asp?dlrno=> AIJFHA> > > Cheers,> > patti From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 13:25:59 2003 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 13:26:34 -0400 To: "William J. Huson" , "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Lawyers? (non-moto request) At 12:56 PM 7/21/03 -0400, William J. Huson wrote: >Well, my job as a searcher involves dealing with patent lawyers all the >time, and it finally happened. Apparently, one of those rat bastards >screwed me out of more'n $1000. He ordered via snail-mail 5 >prosecution histories and I had them photocopied and sent them out. >Delivary refused. > >My question for you on-site lawyers: If RB lawyer doesn't honor his >contract and pay me soon, would I file suit in federal court? >Interstate commerce, his firm is in Indiana. Or file in local court >where I live, or file In *shiver* Indiana? And if he claims he issued a >stop order, which I never recieved, do I stand a chance? I'm not a lawyer, but I've known a bunch of them socially for a long time and took a business law course many years ago. Take this for what it's worth... :^) A contract requires several things. 1) an offer. 2) an acceptance. 3) an exchange of "consideration". 4) a "meeting of the minds" (i.e. all parties must understand the situation the same way...what is being contracted for). You clearly had #1 and #2. It would be hard for either of you to prove that you didn't have #4, as this is a standard part of both of your businesses. The only question comes up about #3. You did the work before you got any payment, right? That would be the place he'd argue it I think. You might want to consider other arrangements in future if this is a regular problem...like deposits, payment in advance or setting up accounts to draw against as work is performed. Don't know if this is possible, as there may be "standard practices" in your industry that say otherwise and bucking them might cost you work. Bad debts happen in every industry...at least you can write them off of your taxes. :^) On the other hand, the amount is small, so small claims court, where you live, would be an option. It's unlikely that he will show up at all, and that will leave you with a "preponderance of the evidence", which is all that's required to win in civil court. It will cost you to file, and to "serve" him with notice of the suit though. Of course, once you have a judgement from a court, you still have to collect. That might be tricky, given the distance. It could cost you a fair amount to get the money even with a judgement in your favor. You may have to pay a sheriff to go sell off enough to pay for your claim, or you might need to file a lien against his office or something. None of that is free...though in theory you could get the money back from him along with the original amount. If it looks like you are going to go that far though, he may just pay you to avoid the hassle. It might also be worth filing a complaint with the Bar Association in his state. Requesting work, then refusing to pay is not "ethical" and should violate their standards. He may not care though, as they don't often do much other than send a "bad lawyer!" letter to him. Lawyers are making the "system" pretty much unusable by almost everyone. In doing so they increase the likelihood that the "system" will be made irrelevant by almost everyone. It was put in place as an alternative to feuds, raids, and other forms of justice-seeking and they run a great risk for everyone by destroying its utility. -- Mike **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 13:26:04 2003 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 13:11:55 -0400 To: "Daniel H. Brown" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Moto Scabbards. At 12:28 PM 7/21/03 -0400, Daniel H. Brown wrote: >Not "rural" VA -- rather, Fairfax county. Like, in between the sprawl and >such. There are no natural predators anymore, and, for the most part, not >a whole lot of hunting. I live about 2 miles NW of the beltway and had to chase deer out of my back yard on several occasions in the last year. They were eating the bird feeders. Why won't they just eat the weeds? If they did that, they could stay. :^) -- Mike **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 13:36:39 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: Subject: I'm baaack Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 13:43:10 -0400 >From a 5,600-mile putt to the Wild West Synopsis Virginia - same old, same old I-66 West Va. - always a pleasure Ohio - there should be a sign saying "corn- next 800 miles" Indiana - Yes, Virginia, there are twisty roads in the Hoosier State Illinois - look out from behind, bang, splat. (or how I graduated from "those that will" to "those that have"**) Missouri - home of the best riding buddy one could hope for, who put the bike back together Kansas - not as boring as it first appears, but better at night. Colorado - mountains, again, at last New Mexico - who, outside of WV, ever heard of dirt roads designated as state highways? Nice ruins. Colorado, again - US550 between Durango and Ouray = Oh_My_God Wyoming - windy, and big wide open spaces. Watch the gas consumption though. Nice respite at our mountain retreat. Montana - more wind and that Custer fellow was a knucklehead. Couple thousand seriously PO'ed warriors, divide up my tiny force and attack, hey, sounds like a plan.... South Dakota - Black Hills, nice tight twisties; the rest, a test of endurance. The Corn Palace in Mitchell. Minnesota - dig that accent. Iowa - hot asphalt = horizontal bike syndrome, ooops. Wisconsin - a cheese factory in every town Illinois - riding through Chicago on a Sat. night Indiana - hit the wall, get a motel before I crash Ohio - like South Dakota, only with traffic Pennsylvania - home of the nation's worst roads, and drivers to match Maryland - almost home; nasty traffic backup coming into Frederick. Oh, there's nothing like 15 miles of stop and go traffic when you've been riding for 13 hours straight. :-] **Yeah, I got rear-ended in Illinois, trashing my Givi rack and the right-side plastics. Creativity with bungee cords got me and all my stuff to my friend's house in Mo. that night. Paul in DC, with road-weary VFR750 with cosmetically-challenged plastic and a tweaked sub-frame. :-( From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 13:53:04 2003 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:52:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Lawyers? (non-moto request) To: Mike Bartman , "William J. Huson" , "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 12:56 PM 7/21/03 -0400, William J. Huson wrote: > >Well, my job as a searcher involves dealing with patent > lawyers all the > >time, and it finally happened. Apparently, one of those > rat bastards > >screwed me out of more'n $1000. He ordered via > snail-mail 5 > >prosecution histories and I had them photocopied and > sent them out. > >Delivary refused. > > > >My question for you on-site lawyers: If RB lawyer > doesn't honor his > >contract and pay me soon, would I file suit in federal > court? > >Interstate commerce, his firm is in Indiana. Or file in > local court > >where I live, or file In *shiver* Indiana? And if he > claims he issued a > >stop order, which I never recieved, do I stand a chance? > > I'm not a lawyer, but I've known a bunch of them socially > for a long time > and took a business law course many years ago. Take this > for what it's > worth... :^) > A contract requires several things. 1) an offer. 2) an > acceptance. 3) an > exchange of "consideration". 4) a "meeting of the minds" > (i.e. all parties > must understand the situation the same way...what is > being contracted for). > You clearly had #1 and #2. It would be hard for either > of you to prove > that you didn't have #4, as this is a standard part of > both of your > businesses. The only question comes up about #3. You > did the work before > you got any payment, right? That would be the place he'd > argue it I think. and he'd lose. how many contracts are based on a promise to pay on one side and a promise to perform on the other? i'd say a considerable percentage. the place he'd start is by claiming that he withdrew his prior request for services and notified huson in a timely manner of same. in that event, bill would have a quantum meruit claim. > You might want to consider other arrangements in future > if this is a > regular problem...like deposits, payment in advance or > setting up accounts > to draw against as work is performed. Don't know if this > is possible, as > there may be "standard practices" in your industry that > say otherwise and > bucking them might cost you work. Bad debts happen in > every industry...at > least you can write them off of your taxes. :^) > > On the other hand, the amount is small, so small claims > court, where you > live, would be an option. It's unlikely that he will > show up at all, and > that will leave you with a "preponderance of the > evidence", which is all > that's required to win in civil court. It will cost you > to file, and to > "serve" him with notice of the suit though. approximately $20 plus certified mail. if he doesn't appear, a default will be entered. no need for testimony or to satisfy a burden of proof. > Of course, once you have a judgement from a court, you > still have to > collect. That might be tricky, given the distance. It > could cost you a > fair amount to get the money even with a judgement in > your favor. You may > have to pay a sheriff to go sell off enough to pay for > your claim, or you > might need to file a lien against his office or > something. None of that is > free...though in theory you could get the money back from > him along with > the original amount. If it looks like you are going to > go that far though, > he may just pay you to avoid the hassle. or, like most people/businesses who are hit with a judgment, the defendant would PAY IT to remove it from its credit history. plus, a judgment against an attorney will almost certainly AUTOMATICALLY initiate disciplinary action. he would definitely need to notify the bar. > It might also be worth filing a complaint with the Bar > Association in his > state. Requesting work, then refusing to pay is not > "ethical" and should > violate their standards. He may not care though, as they > don't often do > much other than send a "bad lawyer!" letter to him. and i suppose lawyers don't care about those? once they've suspended an attorney's license to practice (which can happen on the first breach of professional responsibility), how does the attorney feed his family? > Lawyers are making the "system" pretty much unusable by > almost everyone. > In doing so they increase the likelihood that the > "system" will be made > irrelevant by almost everyone. It was put in place as an > alternative to > feuds, raids, and other forms of justice-seeking and they > run a great risk > for everyone by destroying its utility. what a crock of shit! ALL OF THIS! __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 14:05:07 2003 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:19:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Lawyers? (non-moto request) On Mon, 21 Jul 2003, Tom Gimer wrote: > > In doing so they increase the likelihood that the > > "system" will be made > > irrelevant by almost everyone. It was put in place as an > > alternative to > > feuds, raids, and other forms of justice-seeking and they > > run a great risk > > for everyone by destroying its utility. > > what a crock of shit! ALL OF THIS! I have to agree. Tom's always been great on the list, offering an informed opinion on legal matters. No need for the bashing or incorrect info, Mike. I think your generalizations are getting in the way of rational thought ;-) -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 14:16:30 2003 Subject: Re: I'm baaack From: Carl Schelin To: Paul Wilson Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 21 Jul 2003 14:12:15 -0400 Cool! I'll be doing about 6,500 in a few weeks. Similar route to Illinois but I'll make a right instead of a left and head through Iowa, SD, Wyoming and Idaho. After Boise, I/we'll head to the Great White North over to Boston and south. Got pictures up anywhere yet? Welcome back. Carl On Mon, 2003-07-21 at 13:43, Paul Wilson wrote: > >From a 5,600-mile putt to the Wild West > > Synopsis > > Virginia - same old, same old I-66 > West Va. - always a pleasure > Ohio - there should be a sign saying "corn- next 800 miles" > Indiana - Yes, Virginia, there are twisty roads in the Hoosier State > Illinois - look out from behind, bang, splat. (or how I graduated from > "those that will" to "those that have"**) > Missouri - home of the best riding buddy one could hope for, who put the > bike back together > Kansas - not as boring as it first appears, but better at night. > Colorado - mountains, again, at last > New Mexico - who, outside of WV, ever heard of dirt roads designated as > state highways? Nice ruins. > Colorado, again - US550 between Durango and Ouray = Oh_My_God > Wyoming - windy, and big wide open spaces. Watch the gas consumption > though. Nice respite at our mountain retreat. > Montana - more wind and that Custer fellow was a knucklehead. Couple > thousand seriously PO'ed warriors, divide up my tiny force and attack, hey, > sounds like a plan.... > South Dakota - Black Hills, nice tight twisties; the rest, a test of > endurance. The Corn Palace in Mitchell. > Minnesota - dig that accent. > Iowa - hot asphalt = horizontal bike syndrome, ooops. > Wisconsin - a cheese factory in every town > Illinois - riding through Chicago on a Sat. night > Indiana - hit the wall, get a motel before I crash > Ohio - like South Dakota, only with traffic > Pennsylvania - home of the nation's worst roads, and drivers to match > Maryland - almost home; nasty traffic backup coming into Frederick. Oh, > there's nothing like 15 miles of stop and go traffic when you've been riding > for 13 hours straight. :-] > > **Yeah, I got rear-ended in Illinois, trashing my Givi rack and the > right-side plastics. Creativity with bungee cords got me and all my stuff > to my friend's house in Mo. that night. > > Paul in DC, with road-weary VFR750 with cosmetically-challenged plastic and > a tweaked sub-frame. :-( > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 14:22:26 2003 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:22:01 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: I'm baaack non moto related... but... On Mon, 21 Jul 2003, Paul Wilson wrote: > Montana - more wind and that Custer fellow was a knucklehead. Couple > thousand seriously PO'ed warriors, divide up my tiny force and attack, hey, > sounds like a plan.... Give the guy credit -- he managed to get out of Virginia in one piece, which was no small feat in 1864, especially if you rode a horse and wore a blue uniform. -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 14:43:51 2003 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:42:47 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Wayne Edelen CC: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Lawyers? (non-moto request) Wayne Edelen wrote: > On Mon, 21 Jul 2003, Tom Gimer wrote: > > > > In doing so they increase the likelihood that the > > > "system" will be made > > > irrelevant by almost everyone. It was put in place as an > > > alternative to > > > feuds, raids, and other forms of justice-seeking and they > > > run a great risk > > > for everyone by destroying its utility. > > > > what a crock of shit! ALL OF THIS! > > I have to agree. Tom's always been great on the list, offering an > informed opinion on legal matters. No need for the bashing or incorrect > info, Mike. I think your generalizations are getting in the way of > rational thought ;-) > > -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ I agree also. Lawyers serve a purpose, and despite a tiny percentage of scumbags, which exist in any profession, we'd all be up poop creek without lawyers. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 15:22:22 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: Subject: Lurid details of my crash (long) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 15:10:05 -0400 Since there seems to be a modicum of interest. The scene: two-lane highway, leading to a bridge. Soft shoulder (grass) with a slight-drop off. Guardrail up to the right. Bike at a full stop, awaiting oncoming traffic, with blinker on, waiting to turn left into a parking lot with "The People of Illinois Welcome You" sign. Van-type ambulance in my mirrors. Rut-roh. Not going to make it. Bam. Crunch. Somehow the bike sorta shot out from under me and landed on its right side. I guess I didn't have time to tense up or react and just let the bike go. I didn't even fall down. Aftermath: I was not injured in the slightest and had no pain the day after. Van driver asks me if I'm OK. I respond "aside from the fact you just trashed my bike and probably ruined my vacation, yeah, I'm OK." First thing I do is whip out the cell phone, in case the driver decides to split, then I reach for the digital camera and snap lots of pics. Luckily there are lots of witnesses and people rushing up to see if I'm OK. I assure everyone that aside from being a little pissed off, I'm fine. Cops on their way. A passerby and I get the bike upright after I take my pictures. The ambulance company's supervisor was on the scene too. He was not a happy man. Results: the Givi top plate brackets cracked in half and the E460 top case and top plate went flying off into the weeds. The left side E21 side case popped open, spilling the contents all over the road. The impact blew out half the bottom of the case. The Micron can is dented and the bracket mangled, but appears usuable. The taillights are shoved forward. The worst damage is to the rack. The impact shoved the rack forward and upward and it looks like the subframe that supports the rear part of the bike is a little bent. The pillion footpeg bracket on the right side is splayed outward. The impact of the brackets being forced upward was enough the rip the cover on the seat. The rest of the damage was cosmetic, but includes every piece of bodywork, save the left front cowlings and my fiberglass hugger also has a chip in it. Given the extent of the bodywork damage, the bent sub-frame and the damage to the luggage, the rack and the aftermarket exhaust, it appears to be a "total" from the insurance company's perspective. Naturally, I will take the dough, minus the salvage value, and fix it myself. Cops come and we push the bike off into the parking lot. Once the formalities are over (cops charged the other driver), getting back on the road is my main concern. I crank her a couple of times to refill the float bowls and the bike fired right up. No problems there. Lights check out. I take the seat off to inspect the subframe. No obvious cracks. A little turn around the parking lot and everything appears normal. Brakes work, even though the rear brake pedal is bent. One of the passersby is a rider (an ancient 'Wing it turns out) and he offers to help out. My main problem now is luggage. I ask him for a ride to the nearest hardware store and load all my loose possessions into his truck. I decide to get some big bungee cords and strap the E460 top case to the passenger seat. If that fails, I guess I'll put everything into a duffle bag and strap that down, and ship the bag (just scuffed but latch broken) back to DC. Luckily the strap down method seems to work fine. Bill and I give the bike another look just to make sure it's roadworthy. He snaps my pic with the stupid state line sign (the reason I was turning there in the first place) and I'm on my way. No speed runs at first, but the setup seems stable and the bike tracks straight with no hands on the bars, so I wick it up to normal speeds. I make it the next 300 miles to my friend Brandon's place in Missouri, including a stop at the Gateway Arch in St. Louis -- still gotta do the tourist thing dontchaknow --without incident. Luckily he has a Givi rack, so we swapped the broken parts and he even lent me his top case. We also stripped off all the rear bodywork, took off the passenger footpeg brackets and give the sub-frame a really good visual inspection. No cracks, just bent, it turns out. I fixed the tail-light assembly that had come a bit loose. Oh, and he changed my tires too. What a guy. ;-) So, my trip was saved, but it was very much in doubt for a few hours in Illinois. Paul in DC From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 15:34:38 2003 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 15:49:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Lurid details of my crash (long) On Mon, 21 Jul 2003, Paul Wilson wrote: > So, my trip was saved, but it was very much in doubt for a few hours in > Illinois. > > Paul in DC Damn Paul, that sucks! I'm glad you're ok, hope you get the bike back to 100%. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 15:44:19 2003 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:44:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Lurid details of my crash (long) To: Wayne Edelen , dc-cycles@XXXXXX I know Paul pretty well. He will fix that bike with $2000 to spare I bet. --- Wayne Edelen wrote: > On Mon, 21 Jul 2003, Paul Wilson wrote: > > > So, my trip was saved, but it was very much in > doubt for a few hours in > > Illinois. > > > > Paul in DC > > Damn Paul, that sucks! I'm glad you're ok, hope you > get the bike back to > 100%. > > -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 15:48:32 2003 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 15:47:27 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Paul Wilson CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Lurid details of my crash (long) Yeesh! You're lucky you didn't become a grill ornament! Glad to hear you're unscathed, sorry about the bike. Bill Paul Wilson wrote: > Since there seems to be a modicum of interest. > > The scene: two-lane highway, leading to a bridge. Soft shoulder (grass) > with a slight-drop off. Guardrail up to the right. > > Bike at a full stop, awaiting oncoming traffic, with blinker on, waiting to > turn left into a parking lot with "The People of Illinois Welcome You" sign. > Van-type ambulance in my mirrors. Rut-roh. Not going to make it. Bam. > Crunch. Somehow the bike sorta shot out from under me and landed on its > right side. I guess I didn't have time to tense up or react and just let > the bike go. I didn't even fall down. > > Aftermath: I was not injured in the slightest and had no pain the day > after. Van driver asks me if I'm OK. I respond "aside from the fact you > just trashed my bike and probably ruined my vacation, yeah, I'm OK." First > thing I do is whip out the cell phone, in case the driver decides to split, > then I reach for the digital camera and snap lots of pics. Luckily there > are lots of witnesses and people rushing up to see if I'm OK. I assure > everyone that aside from being a little pissed off, I'm fine. Cops on their > way. A passerby and I get the bike upright after I take my pictures. The > ambulance company's supervisor was on the scene too. He was not a happy > man. > > Results: the Givi top plate brackets cracked in half and the E460 top case > and top plate went flying off into the weeds. The left side E21 side case > popped open, spilling the contents all over the road. The impact blew out > half the bottom of the case. The Micron can is dented and the bracket > mangled, but appears usuable. The taillights are shoved forward. The worst > damage is to the rack. The impact shoved the rack forward and upward and it > looks like the subframe that supports the rear part of the bike is a little > bent. The pillion footpeg bracket on the right side is splayed outward. > The impact of the brackets being forced upward was enough the rip the cover > on the seat. The rest of the damage was cosmetic, but includes every piece > of bodywork, save the left front cowlings and my fiberglass hugger also has > a chip in it. Given the extent of the bodywork damage, the bent sub-frame > and the damage to the luggage, the rack and the aftermarket exhaust, it > appears to be a "total" from the insurance company's perspective. > Naturally, I will take the dough, minus the salvage value, and fix it > myself. > > Cops come and we push the bike off into the parking lot. Once the > formalities are over (cops charged the other driver), getting back on the > road is my main concern. I crank her a couple of times to refill the float > bowls and the bike fired right up. No problems there. Lights check out. I > take the seat off to inspect the subframe. No obvious cracks. A little > turn around the parking lot and everything appears normal. Brakes work, > even though the rear brake pedal is bent. > > One of the passersby is a rider (an ancient 'Wing it turns out) and he > offers to help out. My main problem now is luggage. I ask him for a ride > to the nearest hardware store and load all my loose possessions into his > truck. I decide to get some big bungee cords and strap the E460 top case to > the passenger seat. If that fails, I guess I'll put everything into a > duffle bag and strap that down, and ship the bag (just scuffed but latch > broken) back to DC. Luckily the strap down method seems to work fine. Bill > and I give the bike another look just to make sure it's roadworthy. He > snaps my pic with the stupid state line sign (the reason I was turning there > in the first place) and I'm on my way. No speed runs at first, but the > setup seems stable and the bike tracks straight with no hands on the bars, > so I wick it up to normal speeds. > > I make it the next 300 miles to my friend Brandon's place in Missouri, > including a stop at the Gateway Arch in St. Louis -- still gotta do the > tourist thing dontchaknow --without incident. Luckily he has a Givi rack, > so we swapped the broken parts and he even lent me his top case. We also > stripped off all the rear bodywork, took off the passenger footpeg brackets > and give the sub-frame a really good visual inspection. No cracks, just > bent, it turns out. I fixed the tail-light assembly that had come a bit > loose. Oh, and he changed my tires too. What a guy. ;-) > > So, my trip was saved, but it was very much in doubt for a few hours in > Illinois. > > Paul in DC From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 15:58:45 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Mark Kitchell" , "Wayne Edelen" , Subject: Re: Lurid details of my crash (long) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:05:14 -0400 On the plus side, maybe I can do a testimonial for Givi. :-) Had their rack and luggage not absorbed most of the impact, the bike may have suffered major structural damage to the subframe and perhaps the rear suspension, wheel or swingarm. In that case, my trip probably would have been over. There would have been little to do but have it hauled to the nearest dealer and have the insurance companies do their thing. Then I would have rented a car and driven back to DC with any parts I wanted to keep, I guess. Game over. Still, it's very much preferable to waking up in the hospital with people asking you who's the President of the US. A property-damage only crash, one that's someone else's fault, is probably the best outcome you can have from a cage encounter. ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Kitchell To: Wayne Edelen ; Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 3:44 PM Subject: Re: Lurid details of my crash (long) > I know Paul pretty well. He will fix that bike with > $2000 to spare I bet. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 16:02:18 2003 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:01:14 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Paul Wilson CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: I'm baaack What fun! Paul Wilson wrote: > Ohio - there should be a sign saying "corn- next 800 miles" Or "40,000 square miles of plowed flat cowshit." > Kansas - not as boring as it first appears, but better at night. No, it IS as boring as it appears -- *snooze* > New Mexico - who, outside of WV, ever heard of dirt roads designated as > state highways? Nice ruins. Add Michigan. When I lived there only 40% of the roads were paved. And MI had ruins too! They called them women... > Minnesota - dig that accent. Ah, yes, Minn-ee-sootaa! > Pennsylvania - home of the nation's worst roads, and drivers to match Pennsyl-tucky - a cross betwixt PA and KY, both have suspect paving, but you're right, PA has the worst. Methinks the Army used PA roads for artillery practice and forgot to clean up. > Maryland - almost home; nasty traffic backup coming into Frederick. Oh, > there's nothing like 15 miles of stop and go traffic when you've been riding > for 13 hours straight. :-] We ordewred that to get you back in urban trim :-) > **Yeah, I got rear-ended in Illinois, trashing my Givi rack and the > right-side plastics. Creativity with bungee cords got me and all my stuff > to my friend's house in Mo. that night. Ouch! > Paul in DC, with road-weary VFR750 with cosmetically-challenged plastic and > a tweaked sub-frame. :-( From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 16:03:54 2003 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 15:59:35 -0400 To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Lawyers? (non-moto request) At 02:19 PM 7/21/03 -0400, Wayne Edelen wrote: >On Mon, 21 Jul 2003, Tom Gimer wrote: > >> > In doing so they increase the likelihood that the >> > "system" will be made >> > irrelevant by almost everyone. It was put in place as an >> > alternative to >> > feuds, raids, and other forms of justice-seeking and they >> > run a great risk >> > for everyone by destroying its utility. >> >> what a crock of shit! ALL OF THIS! > >I have to agree. Tom's always been great on the list, offering an >informed opinion on legal matters. I disagree, though since I don't know Tom personally, the remarks were obviously not directed at him personally. If he has a problem with what people think about lawyers in general, and the system they've set up for themselves, perhaps he should suggest fixes? > No need for the bashing or incorrect info, Mike. There's always a need for bashing where there are problems. What info was incorrect in what I wrote? All I've seen so far is an objection that I was being mean to lawyers. Everything else was more specific data that confirmed what I wrote, or added to it. > I think your generalizations are getting in the way of >rational thought ;-) Perhaps, but the pattern is there. Check out http://www.StellaAwards.com for some really egregious examples. I've also gotten more from talking with my ex-wife (legal secretary) and her bosses (partners in a major law firm in D.C.). Seen still more at companies I've worked for over the years, and from my Dad's experiences with suing the government for a blatantly illegal action taken by the Navy, and... If you are rich enough, you can force what you like through the system, or at least delay things until everyone involved goes bankrupt or dies. If you aren't, you don't really have much access to the system in any effective way unless you can get enough other people involved to form an organization to fight it for you. Don't believe me? Try getting your right to keep and bear arms back...what does it cost to fight a case to the Supreme Court these days? -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 16:03:56 2003 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:04:33 -0400 To: "William J. Huson" , Wayne Edelen From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Lawyers? (non-moto request) Cc: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" At 02:42 PM 7/21/03 -0400, William J. Huson wrote: >I agree also. Lawyers serve a purpose, and despite a tiny percentage of >scumbags, which exist in any profession, we'd all be up poop creek without >lawyers. I disagree with this too. We need some sort of system that isn't based on direct application of force to keep societal interactions moving along smoothly. This is not the same as "we need lawyers"...though it doesn't rule them out either. Our current system is just not working very well though. It is expensive, cumbersome, slow, difficult to understand (even for lawyers) and often un-just to the point of arbitrariness. Those are serious flaws. If you can come up with a fix that keeps the lawyers, fine. I'm not willing to limit things to just those solutions that require lawyers though. -- Mike "many of the costs aren't obvious or direct" Bartman -- **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 16:34:26 2003 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Lawyers? (non-moto request) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:22:46 -0400 Just remember Mike is one of dem Harley folk, you know what they say about them. Damn there I go stereotyping. >From: Wayne Edelen >To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" >Subject: Re: Lawyers? (non-moto request) >Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:19:27 -0400 (EDT) > >On Mon, 21 Jul 2003, Tom Gimer wrote: >I have to agree. Tom's always been great on the list, offering an >informed opinion on legal matters. No need for the bashing or incorrect >info, Mike. I think your generalizations are getting in the way of >rational thought ;-) _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 16:46:54 2003 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 13:46:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Larry Larson Subject: Re: Lawyers? (non-moto request) To: "William J. Huson" , "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" --- "William J. Huson" wrote: > Well, my job as a searcher involves dealing with patent > lawyers all the > time, and it finally happened. Apparently, one of those > rat bastards > screwed me out of more'n $1000. He ordered via > snail-mail 5 > prosecution histories and I had them photocopied and sent > them out. > Delivary refused. Best approach might be to file a complaint with PTO's Office of Enrollment and Discipline. Losing his registration as a patent attorney moght be a more realistic threat and shake the bucks loose. I wonder if this happened because PTO just made many file histories available free on the Internet, and that happended between his ordering and you delivering. Regards, Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 16:48:29 2003 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'DCCycles'" Subject: Powder coating Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:51:30 -0400 Someone asked about a powdercoating source. Curtis recommends Hi Tech between Frederick and Hagerstown. 301-955-2925 He says they are a bunch of "good old boys" who do a damn good job for a fair price. Not used them myself but Curtis' stuff looks good. Carl in Bethesda (Rattle can painter) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 17:17:39 2003 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:17:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Lawyers? (non-moto request) To: Mike Bartman , "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 02:19 PM 7/21/03 -0400, Wayne Edelen wrote: > >On Mon, 21 Jul 2003, Tom Gimer wrote: > > > >> > >> what a crock of shit! ALL OF THIS! > > > >I have to agree. Tom's always been great on the list, > offering an > >informed opinion on legal matters. > > I disagree, though since I don't know Tom personally, the > remarks were > obviously not directed at him personally. If he has a > problem with what > people think about lawyers in general, and the system > they've set up for > themselves, perhaps he should suggest fixes? where did i mention ANY of this? i have a problem with whiners. i also have a problem with people spewing nonsense when it casts ME in a negative light. no need to suggest "fixes". everyone listening to this crap has the ability to avoid litigation by including in their contracts a provision requiring mediation, arbitration, etc. rather than litigation. > > No need for the bashing or incorrect info, Mike. > > There's always a need for bashing where there are > problems. What info was > incorrect in what I wrote? All I've seen so far is an > objection that I was > being mean to lawyers. Everything else was more specific > data that > confirmed what I wrote, or added to it. i must have read a different post. the one i read -- from a mike bartman btw -- included a number of incorrect legal theories and assertions followed by a blanket unsubstantiated statement about the dangers of lawyers. i saw nothing confirmed. i saw nothing added. ?!? > > I think your generalizations are getting in the way of > >rational thought ;-) > > Perhaps, but the pattern is there. Check out > http://www.StellaAwards.com > for some really egregious examples. I've also gotten > more from talking > with my ex-wife (legal secretary) and her bosses > (partners in a major law > firm in D.C.). Seen still more at companies I've worked > for over the > years, and from my Dad's experiences with suing the > government for a > blatantly illegal action taken by the Navy, and... ah.... now we're getting down to it. the legal secretary said so! plus, my father lost a case! the system MUST be flawed! > If you are rich enough, you can force what you like > through the system, or > at least delay things until everyone involved goes > bankrupt or dies. If > you aren't, you don't really have much access to the > system in any > effective way unless you can get enough other people > involved to form an > organization to fight it for you. bill huson can pursue HIS case for approximately $30 and 20 minutes filling out a court form. > Don't believe me? Try getting your right to keep and > bear arms back...what > does it cost to fight a case to the Supreme Court these > days? has my right to bear arms been curtailed? please elaborate. i'm not certain which if any of us has the standing to pursue such a case. if you can show me such a person, i'll show you attorneys chomping at the bit to pursue the case pro bono. [note: interesting how we went from discussing a small claims action to a constitutional claim! these things are best discussed in context.] -- tg __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 17:20:16 2003 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 17:19:12 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: MY BAD!!! (was "Lawyers? (non-moto request)" The lawyer has contacted me and claims the package is sitting on his desk! Oops. So what's the deal with the USPS delivary confirmation system? Thsoe jerks still think the delivary was refused, and are now feverishly (?) tracing the package since it was never returned to me. Anyhoo, Lawyer sez he'll pay. Of course he's the absolute slowest pay in the industry, sometimes more'n two months. Final judgement awaits the check... Bill - "USPS - we almost get it right" From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 17:22:52 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "William J. Huson" Cc: Subject: Ohio bashing, was Re: I'm baaack Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 17:29:18 -0400 ----- Original Message ----- From: William J. Huson > What fun! > > Paul Wilson wrote: > > > Ohio - there should be a sign saying "corn- next 800 miles" > > Or "40,000 square miles of plowed flat cowshit." > To rise to the defense of my home state, "plowed flat" substances only apply to the glaciated plain in the northern parts. Southeast Ohio has some of the most challenging roads you will find anywhere. Not big mountains with lots of elevation changes, but twisty as all get out, off camber, blind corners, small, but dramatic elevation changes, decreasing radius turns, all that good stuff. I'll stipulate that the Ohio Turnpike is boring as all hell, but it's quite efficient. All the other routes across northern Ohio require bumbling along through an endless succession of small towns, chockablock with traffic lights and cops. But, if you have time, explore the Southeastern part of the state. Then thank me when you get home. Paul in DC From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 19:25:01 2003 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 19:20:03 -0400 From: Carl Parker To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Lawyers? (non-moto request) >I agree also. Lawyers serve a purpose... Mmm....grizzley bear foodt....mmmm.... Carlo "Remembering the great DC lawyer Grizzley mauling of the 20th century" Parker From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 19:25:56 2003 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 19:20:59 -0400 From: Carl Parker To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: Amazing...bicycle helmets?? Can someone legally wear bicycle helmets on motorcycles? I know they have the same cert organization stickers on em' but i'd guess they have different impact standards. Also, FWIW I rode to work and to my clients today in DC with full Stich' and helmet. It really didn't seem to be all that bad because it was rather cloudy. When it's humid with beating sun then it's time to suffer; it really doesn't matter what you wear so much. Carlo From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 19:33:08 2003 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 19:47:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Amazing...bicycle helmets?? On Mon, 21 Jul 2003, Carl Parker wrote: > Can someone legally wear bicycle helmets on motorcycles? I know they > have the same cert organization stickers on em' but i'd guess they have > different impact standards. AFAIK, no. > Also, FWIW I rode to work and to my clients today in DC with full Stich' > > and helmet. It really didn't seem to be all that bad because it was > rather cloudy. When it's humid with beating sun then it's time to > suffer; it really doesn't matter what you wear so much. Are you using a 1pc Roadcrafter? How well does it vent while moving? I'm considering picking one up to facilitate easier and more frequent commuting. My 2pc Joe Rocket setup leaves me pretty wrinkled when I get to work. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 19:37:04 2003 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 19:32:06 -0400 From: Carl Parker To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" , pawilson@XXXXXX Subject: re: I'm baaaack... Paul! Glad to see you made it home alright. I did much of the same route you took a couple months ago (man was that a couple months ago???) > Iowa - hot asphalt = horizontal bike syndrome, ooops. How did you manage to lay the bike down in Iowa? There aren't any curves in the road that I could tell. :) > South Dakota - Black Hills, nice tight twisties; the rest, a test of > endurance. The Corn Palace in Mitchell. Black Hills is a great area to ride. did you get a chance to see the Crazy Horse monument? Talk to any native Sioux? > Ohio - like South Dakota, only with traffic ???????? > Maryland - almost home; nasty traffic backup coming into Frederick. Oh, > there's nothing like 15 miles of stop and go traffic when you've been riding > for 13 hours straight. :-] Try 30 miles of stop and go taillights at 5am after 19hours straight? I love 270 in the morning... Either way it sux..I feel your pain; I feel it so much I'm gettin' the hell out! Gotta love the Viffers....great midweight touring mounts. Can't think of another sub-litre class bike I'd tour with. Carlo From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 19:52:35 2003 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 19:51:30 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Paul Wilson CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Ohio bashing, was Re: I'm baaack Paul Wilson wrote: > To rise to the defense of my home state, "plowed flat" substances only apply > to the glaciated plain in the northern parts. Southeast Ohio has some of > the most challenging roads you will find anywhere. Not big mountains with > lots of elevation changes, but twisty as all get out, off camber, blind > corners, small, but dramatic elevation changes, decreasing radius turns, > all that good stuff. > > I'll stipulate that the Ohio Turnpike is boring as all hell, but it's quite > efficient. All the other routes across northern Ohio require bumbling along > through an endless succession of small towns, chockablock with traffic > lights and cops. But, if you have time, explore the Southeastern part of > the state. Then thank me when you get home. > > Paul in DC Been there, and SE Oh-Hell-It's-Ohio is quite loverly. Forget the turnpike and those triple bottom tractor trailer(s) rigs. Yikes! Ran across a couple cool motorcycle shops in the NE section below Toledo, and then I got to Toledo - eek! FWIW - I nominate the interstate from Ann Arbor to Dee-troit as the worst piece of pavement I've seen. I-94 I think it was. Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 21:20:20 2003 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 21:20:52 -0400 To: "rich hall" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Lawyers? (non-moto request) At 04:22 PM 7/21/03 -0400, rich hall wrote: >Just remember Mike is one of dem Harley folk, you know what they say about >them. Damn there I go stereotyping. I'm not a Harley folk *yet*. It's looking up though... :^) I used to be a Yamaha enduro and Honda street bike folk, but I got better. :^) -- Mike **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 21:32:23 2003 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:32:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Ryan Rogers Subject: Bikes To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I have a neighbor who is interestead in buying a used bike for her first bike. She is looking for any little 250/500. Sport bikes only. Such as ex500, ninja 250 and so on. If anyone knows of any bike around the area like this please contact me off list at suprchase@XXXXXX. Thank you very much. Ryan __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 21:35:35 2003 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 21:34:29 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Mike Bartman CC: rich hall , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Lawyers? (non-moto request) Mike Bartman wrote: > At 04:22 PM 7/21/03 -0400, rich hall wrote: > >Just remember Mike is one of dem Harley folk, you know what they say about > >them. Damn there I go stereotyping. > > I'm not a Harley folk *yet*. It's looking up though... :^) Yes, saw your post on the foot size prob. Fortunately, aftermarket mods for Hawgs take care of dern near any out of average spec situation. An easy one for the shifter is to remove the rear lever, but I dearly love the rocker shifter Mods on mine, tossed the fluffyb airbag rear suspension, replaced with real shocks, and swapped out the fork springs to get rid of the front air. Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 22:03:06 2003 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 22:03:40 -0400 To: Tom Gimer , "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Lawyers? (non-moto request) At 02:17 PM 7/21/03 -0700, Tom Gimer wrote: >no need to suggest "fixes". everyone listening to this >crap has the ability to avoid litigation by including in >their contracts a provision requiring mediation, >arbitration, etc. rather than litigation. That's fine for contract situations. What about manufacturing for sale to the public? Lawyers damn near wiped out the light airplane industry in this country...it took an act of Congress to get them off the backs of the manufacturers enough to save the industry. Cessna didn't make *any* light planes for many years due to completely irrational product liability suits. Basically if you weren't psychic, you were at fault if anyone managed to hurt themselves anywhere near your product, even 40 years after you last touched it. What about the suits against gun manufacturers trying to blame them for criminal abuse of their products? What about suits against small business owners, such as bars, claiming that they have a responsibility to oversee their adult customers and pay damages when those customers are stupid and irresponsible? What about software patents for things that have been common knowledge in the math or programming field for decades or longer, and the associated legally sanctioned extortion that results when the new patent owners go after everyone in sight who has deep pockets? Someone actually patented the exclusive-OR operation for crying out loud...and sued, and got paid because of the cost of defending against the claim. What about the completely unjust "deep pockets" theory of liability, where the one with the most money pays the bulk of the judgement, no matter how slight their contribution to the harm was? What about any of the suits described in the True Stella Awards newsletter (which is free if anyone wants it...go to the web page I gave the URL for)? I realize that it wasn't lawyers who brought most of these suits...they were just working for those who did...but it was lawyers who set up the system that allows that sort of abuse, and it's lawyers who run it, profit from it, and extend it. There is something seriously wrong with our system, and it needs fixing. >> > No need for the bashing or incorrect info, Mike. >> >> There's always a need for bashing where there are >> problems. What info was >> incorrect in what I wrote? All I've seen so far is an >> objection that I was >> being mean to lawyers. Everything else was more specific >> data that >> confirmed what I wrote, or added to it. > >i must have read a different post. the one i read -- from >a mike bartman btw -- included a number of incorrect legal >theories and assertions followed by a blanket >unsubstantiated statement about the dangers of lawyers. i >saw nothing confirmed. i saw nothing added. ?!? What was incorrect? I saw no corrections. All I saw was an angry outburst making unsubstantiated claims about everything I'd written being wrong, along with several places where you confirmed that I wasn't wrong. One example of confirmation and added information came in the form of you specifying the price of one of the possibilities I'd mentioned (filing suit and having a sheriff help collect). Your confirmation seemed to contradict your claim of complete error on my part...unless you were in error too? Are you saying that what I said about what is required to form a contract is wrong? In what way? It's straight out of the book )as near as I remember anyway) used for my business law class (which, as I said, was several decades ago). It's one of the things I wrote, and if everything I wrote was wrong, that would have to be wrong, but unless the definition of "contract" has changed since the mid-70s, I don't think I am. Are you sure that *everything* I wrote was wrong? Or just the part about it being the lawyers fault that the system works so poorly? >> > I think your generalizations are getting in the way of >> >rational thought ;-) >> >> Perhaps, but the pattern is there. Check out >> http://www.StellaAwards.com >> for some really egregious examples. I've also gotten >> more from talking >> with my ex-wife (legal secretary) and her bosses >> (partners in a major law >> firm in D.C.). Seen still more at companies I've worked >> for over the >> years, and from my Dad's experiences with suing the >> government for a >> blatantly illegal action taken by the Navy, and... > >ah.... now we're getting down to it. the legal secretary >said so! plus, my father lost a case! the system MUST be >flawed! You really don't seem to be too good with the logic thing, or maybe it's reading ability? Or perhaps you are just being a lawyer, and trying desperately to ignore anything that contradicts your case, while banging the table to draw attention to anything at all that might even look like it supports your claims? I listed 5 different sources of data, and indicated with ellipsis that there were more that weren't listed. You pick the two easiest targets, and go after those, while conveniently ignoring the rest...especially the one that actually gives case details of a number of cases that are, or were recently, in the courts. I guess that's how you were trained in law school, but it's no way to arrive at a correct answer...it's just a way to win if others aren't paying sufficient attention. Thanks for highlighting one of the flaws in our current system! :^) >> Don't believe me? Try getting your right to keep and >> bear arms back...what >> does it cost to fight a case to the Supreme Court these >> days? > >has my right to bear arms been curtailed? please >elaborate. i'm not certain which if any of us has the >standing to pursue such a case. I do, because mine has. Check the laws in Maryland. What do you suppose would happen if I tried to buy an M-16? A pistol of any sort? What would happen if I took it with me when I went hiking? If it was concealed? If it wasn't? What are my chances if I tried to get a concealed carry permit so that I could exercise my rights while cooperating with the government bureaucrats? If you don't think any of our rights to keep and bear arms have been curtailed, you just aren't paying attention. BTW, the 2nd Amendment doesn't say that the government can't "curtail" (eliminate) our rights, it says that they may not "infringe" (limit) them...a much lower standard of harm before the prohibition kicks in. We are certainly well beyond "infringement" when specific types and models (which seems a lot like a "Bill of Attainder" when they name them specifically, rather than describing them by characteristics...Bills of Attainder aren't allowed either) of gun are not allowed for sale, ownership, transport or use, when citizens are not allowed to carry arms with them, when laws are passed requiring guns to be turned in, without compensation (which Amendment does that one violate again?) as happened in California. Just to keep state constitutional issues out of it, we can just look at D.C. if you like... >if you can show me such a >person, i'll show you attorneys chomping at the bit to >pursue the case pro bono. [note: interesting how we went >from discussing a small claims action to a constitutional >claim! these things are best discussed in context.] I gave (severely qualified) advice and comments on a contractual problem. I was discussing nothing when you jumped in and said that everything I'd said was wrong, while contradicting yourself by specifying the cost of part of what I'd suggested as a possible response. At the end of my comments on the contractual problem I gave some opinions about our legal system and those who created and run it in its current form. You objected to those opinions (and my post in its entirety), so the discussion of the problems of our legal system got started. Since Constitutional cases are certainly part of the legal system, they are certainly fair game in this discussion that you started by commenting on my post. They aren't the only thing I've mentioned, BTW. Do try to keep up with what's happening, ok? So, where are the attorneys who are champing at the bit to take on a Constitutional challenge to our anti-gun-rights laws, pro bono? -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 22:15:43 2003 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 22:15:47 -0400 To: "William J. Huson" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Lawyers? (non-moto request) Cc: rich hall , dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 09:34 PM 7/21/03 -0400, William J. Huson wrote: >Mike Bartman wrote: > >> At 04:22 PM 7/21/03 -0400, rich hall wrote: >> >Just remember Mike is one of dem Harley folk, you know what they say about >> >them. Damn there I go stereotyping. >> >> I'm not a Harley folk *yet*. It's looking up though... :^) > >Yes, saw your post on the foot size prob. Fortunately, aftermarket mods for Hawgs >take care of dern near any out of average spec situation. I was starting to wonder...but one of the more "experienced" guys at the local HD dealer's parts counter pointed me at Bubba's Brakes, and it really looks like they have what I need. Enough that I'm going to chance it and get the bike ASAP (waiting for the cash...should be by the end of the month). If they don't turn out to work, I'll be looking for forward controls, or a machinist... ;^) >An easy one for the >shifter is to remove the rear lever, but I dearly love the rocker shifter I've never used one, so if I had to remove the rear one I wouldn't miss it...but I was kind of looking forward to trying it. With Bubba's footboards being 2" farther forward, and their front shift lever being over 2" longer, it might let me keep the rear shifter in place. If not, I've found nice little chromed billet shaft end covers for $20 on the net that hide the place the rear one used to be. >Mods on mine, tossed the fluffyb airbag rear suspension, replaced with real >shocks, and swapped out the fork springs to get rid of the front air. What model do you have? I'm looking at the FLSTC, though the Fat Boy is very nice too...for the sort of things I want to do anyway (afternoon joyrides, weekend day trips, that sort of thing). If I was going to do the "once around the country" thing that some have been writing about, I'd probably be more interested in a different bike. :^) -- Mike **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 22:30:03 2003 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 22:28:55 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Mike Bartman CC: rich hall , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Lawyers? (non-moto request) Mike Bartman wrote: > I>Mods on mine, tossed the fluffyb airbag rear suspension, replaced with real > >shocks, and swapped out the fork springs to get rid of the front air. > > What model do you have? I'm looking at the FLSTC, though the Fat Boy is > very nice too...for the sort of things I want to do anyway (afternoon > joyrides, weekend day trips, that sort of thing). If I was going to do the > "once around the country" thing that some have been writing about, I'd > probably be more interested in a different bike. :^) > > -- Mike `93 FLHS - daddy of the Road King. The instrument pod is on the handlebars and has a tach. Upcoming mod, stripping the front lights and adding a `98 Road Glide fairing, which is frame mounted. Does okay on the road. I've made round trips to Baton Rouge LA, and Sarasota FL, and a circuit to MI, down to TN, and out to the Outer Banks. A few 600 mile days in there. My bike is a rusty, flakey example of what happens to all that single plate chrome if you actually ride the bike. Chrome don't getcha home.. :-) Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 22:36:23 2003 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 22:36:39 -0400 To: "William J. Huson" From: Mike Bartman Subject: HD accessories and fit (was: Re: Lawyers? (non-moto request)) Cc: rich hall , dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 10:28 PM 7/21/03 -0400, William J. Huson wrote: >Mike Bartman wrote: > >> I>Mods on mine, tossed the fluffyb airbag rear suspension, replaced with real >> >shocks, and swapped out the fork springs to get rid of the front air. >> >> What model do you have? I'm looking at the FLSTC, though the Fat Boy is >> very nice too...for the sort of things I want to do anyway (afternoon >> joyrides, weekend day trips, that sort of thing). If I was going to do the >> "once around the country" thing that some have been writing about, I'd >> probably be more interested in a different bike. :^) >> >> -- Mike > >`93 FLHS - daddy of the Road King. The instrument pod is on the handlebars and >has a tach. Upcoming mod, stripping the front lights and adding a `98 Road Glide >fairing, which is frame mounted. Does okay on the road. I've made round trips >to Baton Rouge LA, and Sarasota FL, and a circuit to MI, down to TN, and out to >the Outer Banks. A few 600 mile days in there. I sat on a dresser once...very nice seat. The foot controls wouldn't work though, and there wasn't any obvious way to fix it, given where the fairing was. Moving the controls forward would have hit it before they got far enough for me. I haven't sat on a Road King though...maybe that would be different? Doesn't matter too much at this point though....I really like the Heritage Classic... ;^) >My bike is a rusty, flakey example of what happens to all that single plate chrome >if you actually ride the bike. Chrome don't getcha home.. :-) ;^) I saw that last bit on a small placard on a Rat Bike at the Daytona show on American Thunder a week or so ago. Are you headed in that direction, accessory-wise? :^) -- Mike **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 22:59:11 2003 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 19:58:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Lawyers? (non-moto request) To: Mike Bartman , "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 02:17 PM 7/21/03 -0700, Tom Gimer wrote: > >no need to suggest "fixes". everyone listening to this > >crap has the ability to avoid litigation by including in > >their contracts a provision requiring mediation, > >arbitration, etc. rather than litigation. > > That's fine for contract situations. What about > manufacturing for sale to > the public? Lawyers damn near wiped out the light > airplane industry in > this country...it took an act of Congress to get them off > the backs of the > manufacturers enough to save the industry. Cessna didn't > make *any* light > planes for many years due to completely irrational > product liability suits. > Basically if you weren't psychic, you were at fault if > anyone managed to > hurt themselves anywhere near your product, even 40 years > after you last > touched it. explain to me how _lawyers_ did this. in doing so, please identify the "lawyers" you have cast under your broad net. are you referring to legislators? judges? trial lawyers? or are you simply blaming the lawyers for bringing suit on behalf of the clients who retained them? and i told myself i wouldn't fall into the trap of responding to another of your off-topic queries. i don't give a shit about cessna (or piper or beechcraft for that matter). if these companies can't solve their "problems" (read: planes dropping out of the sky) by protecting themselves with liability insurance -- like every other u.s. industry -- then fuck 'em! > What about the suits against gun manufacturers trying to > blame them for > criminal abuse of their products? what about them? let me guess: lawyers are to blame, right? how have those suits turned out? will anything good come out of them? > What about suits against small business owners, such as > bars, claiming that > they have a responsibility to oversee their adult > customers and pay damages > when those customers are stupid and irresponsible? what about them? let me guess: lawyers are to blame, right? how have those suits turned out? again, will anything good come out of them? > What about software patents for things that have been > common knowledge in > the math or programming field for decades or longer, and > the associated > legally sanctioned extortion that results when the new > patent owners go > after everyone in sight who has deep pockets? Someone > actually patented > the exclusive-OR operation for crying out loud...and > sued, and got paid > because of the cost of defending against the claim. blah blah blah. jesus, don't you have the ability to respond to a post with a SIMPLE, CONCISE ANSWER? again, who is to blame for this "problem" (i'm not even going to try to analyze the summaries of american law you have conveniently made in this post without reference to any particular theories, statutes or decisions (let alone jurisdictional information). it's the LAWYERS! yeah, those guys who can't bring an action unless somebody HIRES them to do it. > What about the completely unjust "deep pockets" theory of > liability, where > the one with the most money pays the bulk of the > judgement, no matter how > slight their contribution to the harm was? point me to the "deep pockets" theory of liability. (sound to me like you're combining joint and several liability with CERCLA!) i'm beginning to see that your legal education DOES consist of second-hand bullshit from your ex-wife! > What about any of the suits described in the True Stella > Awards newsletter > (which is free if anyone wants it...go to the web page I > gave the URL for)? i presume you have pointed us to a site which has the the sole purpose of spinning anti-lawyer anti-plaintiff propaganda. how about providing a link to other sites (yes, there is certainly opposition to the stance you are taking) which identify case after case in which the law and the system were used PROPERLY to obtain relief for an injured plaintiff or plaintiffs? > I realize that it wasn't lawyers who brought most of > these suits...they > were just working for those who did...but it was lawyers > who set up the > system that allows that sort of abuse, and it's lawyers > who run it, profit > from it, and extend it. There is something seriously > wrong with our > system, and it needs fixing. jesus.... is it the lawyers or the system? or is it the lawyers who created the system? or is it the system being run by the lawyers? or, just maybe, we've got one of the finest legal systems on the planet and some people just need to bitch and moan to feel complete. > >> > No need for the bashing or incorrect info, Mike. > >> > >> There's always a need for bashing where there are > >> problems. What info was > >> incorrect in what I wrote? All I've seen so far is an > >> objection that I was > >> being mean to lawyers. Everything else was more > specific > >> data that > >> confirmed what I wrote, or added to it. > > > >i must have read a different post. the one i read -- > from > >a mike bartman btw -- included a number of incorrect > legal > >theories and assertions followed by a blanket > >unsubstantiated statement about the dangers of lawyers. > i > >saw nothing confirmed. i saw nothing added. ?!? > > What was incorrect? I saw no corrections. All I saw was > an angry outburst > making unsubstantiated claims about everything I'd > written being wrong, > along with several places where you confirmed that I > wasn't wrong. ? an angry outburst? whatever. > One example of confirmation and added information came in > the form of you > specifying the price of one of the possibilities I'd > mentioned (filing suit > and having a sheriff help collect). and i pointed out that it would be unnecessary, because the defendant in this case would have a serious desire to avoid a judgment and, if one was entered, a serious desire to satisfy it. open your ears! > Your confirmation > seemed to contradict > your claim of complete error on my part...unless you were > in error too? you lost me in all of this bullshit. i wonder if anyone is able to follow you. people, please chime in if you understand what mr. 10k post is saying here. > Are you saying that what I said about what is required to > form a contract > is wrong? In what way? It's straight out of the book > )as near as I > remember anyway) used for my business law class (which, > as I said, was > several decades ago). It's one of the things I wrote, > and if everything I > wrote was wrong, that would have to be wrong, but unless > the definition of > "contract" has changed since the mid-70s, I don't think I > am. your simplified explanation of the elements of a contract sounded about right. however, your reading on whether or not a contract had been formed between huson and the unnamed attorney was, in my opinion, incorrect. i pointed out why the element of consideration (#3 in your outline) HAD been satisfied in the instant scenario. put down the keyboard and re-read my post. > Are you sure that *everything* I wrote was wrong? Or > just the part about > it being the lawyers fault that the system works so > poorly? jesus.... did i say "everything" you wrote was wrong? NO. > >> > I think your generalizations are getting in the way > of > >> >rational thought ;-) > >> > >> Perhaps, but the pattern is there. Check out > >> http://www.StellaAwards.com > >> for some really egregious examples. I've also gotten > >> more from talking > >> with my ex-wife (legal secretary) and her bosses > >> (partners in a major law > >> firm in D.C.). Seen still more at companies I've > worked > >> for over the > >> years, and from my Dad's experiences with suing the > >> government for a > >> blatantly illegal action taken by the Navy, and... > > > >ah.... now we're getting down to it. the legal > secretary > >said so! plus, my father lost a case! the system MUST > be > >flawed! > > You really don't seem to be too good with the logic > thing, or maybe it's > reading ability? Or perhaps you are just being a lawyer, > and trying > desperately to ignore anything that contradicts your > case, while banging > the table to draw attention to anything at all that might > even look like it > supports your claims? , i'd love to sit around all night and argue about whether or not i can think logically, but, honestly, i'd rather take a shit. i'm serious. you friggin bore me. > I listed 5 different sources of data, and indicated with > ellipsis that > there were more that weren't listed. You pick the two > easiest targets, and > go after those, while conveniently ignoring the > rest...especially the one > that actually gives case details of a number of cases > that are, or were > recently, in the courts. I guess that's how you were > trained in law > school, but it's no way to arrive at a correct > answer...it's just a way to > win if others aren't paying sufficient attention. Thanks > for highlighting > one of the flaws in our current system! :^) your welcome (said in such a way that it is clear that i just wish the conversation would end, somehow, some way). > >> Don't believe me? Try getting your right to keep and > >> bear arms back...what > >> does it cost to fight a case to the Supreme Court > these > >> days? > > > >has my right to bear arms been curtailed? please > >elaborate. i'm not certain which if any of us has the > >standing to pursue such a case. > > I do, because mine has. Check the laws in Maryland. > What do you suppose > would happen if I tried to buy an M-16? A pistol of any > sort? What would > happen if I took it with me when I went hiking? If it > was concealed? If > it wasn't? What are my chances if I tried to get a > concealed carry permit > so that I could exercise my rights while cooperating with > the government > bureaucrats? i suppose you'd like to carry around a warhead too? or carry an automatic weapon on the subway or to a ballgame. in your opinion, can there be a line drawn between what is reasonable and what is not? if not, GET REAL! if so, where is the line and who should draw it? > If you don't think any of our rights to keep and bear > arms have been > curtailed, you just aren't paying attention. BTW, the > 2nd Amendment > doesn't say that the government can't "curtail" > (eliminate) our rights, it > says that they may not "infringe" (limit) them...a much > lower standard of > harm before the prohibition kicks in. We are certainly > well beyond > "infringement" when specific types and models (which > seems a lot like a > "Bill of Attainder" when they name them specifically, > rather than > describing them by characteristics...Bills of Attainder > aren't allowed > either) of gun are not allowed for sale, ownership, > transport or use, when > citizens are not allowed to carry arms with them, when > laws are passed > requiring guns to be turned in, without compensation > (which Amendment does > that one violate again?) as happened in California. Just > to keep state > constitutional issues out of it, we can just look at D.C. > if you like... > > >if you can show me such a > >person, i'll show you attorneys chomping at the bit to > >pursue the case pro bono. [note: interesting how we > went > >from discussing a small claims action to a > constitutional > >claim! these things are best discussed in context.] > > I gave (severely qualified) advice and comments on a > contractual problem. > I was discussing nothing when you jumped in and said that > everything I'd > said was wrong, please do point this out for me, ok? > while contradicting yourself by > specifying the cost of part > of what I'd suggested as a possible response. At the end > of my comments on > the contractual problem I gave some opinions about our > legal system and > those who created and run it in its current form. You > objected to those > opinions (and my post in its entirety), so the discussion > of the problems > of our legal system got started. Since Constitutional > cases are certainly > part of the legal system, they are certainly fair game in > this discussion > that you started by commenting on my post. They aren't > the only thing I've > mentioned, BTW. > > Do try to keep up with what's happening, ok? i'm sorry, i dozed off during your last chapter. i will try to pay attention better during your next lecture. > So, where are the attorneys who are champing at the bit > to take on a > Constitutional challenge to our anti-gun-rights laws, pro > bono? if your best case is "i want to carry my m-16 but maryland won't let me do it" then say so. identify the law in question. prove to me that it will be enforced as you claim. better yet, get charged with violating it. i'll find you an attorney. if you've got a better case (i truly hope so), let's hear it. to those dcc listers who actually wasted the time reading through HIS post and MY response, i apologize. what a waste of bandwidth. -- tg __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 23:15:03 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: Re: Lawyers? (non-moto request) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 23:14:19 -0400 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec7994388c3d2856ecd8686285a32c2acff2350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Gimer baited: ... > and i told myself i wouldn't fall into the trap of > responding to another of your off-topic queries. i don't > give a shit about cessna (or piper or beechcraft for that > matter). if these companies can't solve their "problems" > (read: planes dropping out of the sky) by protecting > themselves with liability insurance -- like every other > u.s. industry -- then fuck 'em! [Dave] Allah-damnit, Tom. that post was the size of some of the daily archives... Just don't wuss out this time when you get invited outside this time like you did last time ;-) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Jul 21 23:17:28 2003 Reply-To: From: "Michael H. Moore" To: Subject: Engine Rebuild Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 23:42:45 -0400 So I killed the engine on my 02' GS500 a few weeks ago. I took it apart and found that one of the connecting rod bearings failed, which caused some damage to the crankshaft and to the connecting rod. I'm sending the crank to www.faliconcranks.com to rebuild it. They quoted me about $275. Does that sound fair? Now I need to track down a connecting rod, a bearing kit, gasket kit, and piston rings. Whose the best retailer for things like this? Also, does anyone know how to determine what size bearings you need? I've been told that the bearings are specific to the crank, and replacements are sold in a range of sizes. Are local dealer prices much different than an online store like www.bikebandit.com? Finally, any words of wisdom on reassembling the engine? Is there anything else I should replace while I'm in there? Thanks, mike From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 02:22:08 2003 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 02:18:39 -0400 To: Tom Gimer , "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Lawyers? (non-moto request) At 07:58 PM 7/21/03 -0700, Tom Gimer wrote: >--- Mike Bartman wrote: >> At 02:17 PM 7/21/03 -0700, Tom Gimer wrote: >> >no need to suggest "fixes". everyone listening to this >> >crap has the ability to avoid litigation by including in >> >their contracts a provision requiring mediation, >> >arbitration, etc. rather than litigation. >> >> That's fine for contract situations. What about >> manufacturing for sale to >> the public? Lawyers damn near wiped out the light >> airplane industry in >> this country...it took an act of Congress to get them off > >explain to me how _lawyers_ did this. They passed the laws. They ran the courts. They argued the 'theories' used to reach decisions. They created and operated the system in which it happened. They can't escape blame as a group, though individual lawyers might make a case to be excused. >are you referring to legislators? judges? trial lawyers? >or are you simply blaming the lawyers for bringing suit on >behalf of the clients who retained them? Yes, all of that. >and i told myself i wouldn't fall into the trap of >responding to another of your off-topic queries. i don't >give a shit about cessna (or piper or beechcraft for that >matter). if these companies can't solve their "problems" >(read: planes dropping out of the sky) by protecting >themselves with liability insurance -- like every other >u.s. industry -- then fuck 'em! You really don't have a clue, do you? I'll explain it then. No charge. Insurance requires premiums to be paid. The size of the premiums are based on the expected size of the payouts for claims. When claims get really big, premiums get really big. Businesses don't print money...only the government can do that. Any money they pay out has to come from their customers. When liabiity insurance premiums get bigger, the cost of the products goes up to cover them. When the cost of the product exceeds the ability or willingness of the customer to pay, there is no sale. No sale, no business. That's why Cessna got out of the light plane business for many years, why Piper was in bankruptcy for years, and why a number of manufacturers went under. The remaining ones mostly had no "legacy" planes to have claims come from, or sold to businesses rather than consumers. With businesses the liability picture is very different, as I'm sure you know. Businesses are expected to know more than stupid consumers, and require less "protection". Liability insurance will only solve the problem when the liability scene has some sanity to it. When a consumer can abuse a product, modify it, break laws in using it, and exceed all sane limitations on use, get hurt, and sue successfully for millions of dollars, there is something seriously wrong with the system (that happened to Piper BTW, it's not theoretical). Being liable for negligence is fine, but being liable for failure to be omniscient is not. That's the situation we have today though...especially if you have "deep pockets". >> What about the suits against gun manufacturers trying to >> blame them for >> criminal abuse of their products? > >what about them? let me guess: lawyers are to blame, >right? how have those suits turned out? will anything >good come out of them? Nothing good, but at least one manufacturer has been driven out of business by the costs of defending against one of them...with the associated loss of jobs, increased unemployment payments, and local tax revenue that will have to be made up by others. The suits are baseless, and slowly being thrown out of various courts, but they are doing damage anyway...and at taxpayer expense. They should never have existed in any rational system. >> What about suits against small business owners, such as >> bars, claiming that >> they have a responsibility to oversee their adult >> customers and pay damages >> when those customers are stupid and irresponsible? > >what about them? let me guess: lawyers are to blame, >right? how have those suits turned out? again, will >anything good come out of them? Some businesses have gone out of business, people are still getting drunk and driving and walking into traffic, so no, no good has come of it (unless you are a lawyer who got to cash checks to be involved in it), and much harm has resulted. >> What about software patents for things that have been >> common knowledge in >> the math or programming field for decades or longer, and >> the associated >> legally sanctioned extortion that results when the new >> patent owners go >> after everyone in sight who has deep pockets? Someone >> actually patented >> the exclusive-OR operation for crying out loud...and >> sued, and got paid >> because of the cost of defending against the claim. > >blah blah blah. jesus, don't you have the ability to >respond to a post with a SIMPLE, CONCISE ANSWER? This from a lawyer? Yes, I have that ability, but when dealing with someone who intentionally, or unavoidably, misreads things, it's best to cover all the bases. >it's the LAWYERS! yeah, >those guys who can't bring an action unless somebody HIRES >them to do it. Who writes the laws? Who sits on the courts? Who argues the cases, whether they have merit or not? Who decides what "theories" are valid, and which are not? LAWYERS. When the system has faults, who's fault is it? LAWYERS. They built it, they run it, it's their fault when it runs over people. >> What about the completely unjust "deep pockets" theory of >> liability, where >> the one with the most money pays the bulk of the >> judgement, no matter how >> slight their contribution to the harm was? > >point me to the "deep pockets" theory of liability. (sound >to me like you're combining joint and several liability >with CERCLA!) CERCLA? Please define, or at least expand, the acronym. Yes, joint and several liability is in there. Cases where someone is 5% to blame for an accident, but gets to pay 90% of the damages. That sort of thing. Call it whatever you like, it's wrong. >> What about any of the suits described in the True Stella >> Awards newsletter >> (which is free if anyone wants it...go to the web page I >> gave the URL for)? > >i presume you have pointed us to a site which has the the >sole purpose of spinning anti-lawyer anti-plaintiff >propaganda. You presume incorrectly. Why don't you go look at it, then bash it? The site, and the newsletters that come out about once a week (latest one is on the site), are about actual court cases, and always have a pointer to where you can learn more about it if you don't trust the summaries...usually some sort of "official" site. The commentary is pretty well balanced, and letters from readers are included...including some from lawyers. >> I realize that it wasn't lawyers who brought most of >> these suits...they >> were just working for those who did...but it was lawyers >> who set up the >> system that allows that sort of abuse, and it's lawyers >> who run it, profit >> from it, and extend it. There is something seriously >> wrong with our >> system, and it needs fixing. > >jesus.... is it the lawyers or the system? There's a difference? The lawyers *are* the system in this case. It's the LEGAL SYSTEM after all. Who ELSE is in charge of it?? >> What was incorrect? I saw no corrections. All I saw was >> an angry outburst >> making unsubstantiated claims about everything I'd >> written being wrong, >> along with several places where you confirmed that I >> wasn't wrong. > >? an angry outburst? whatever. Yeah, this bit seemed just a mite annoyed: > what a crock of shit! ALL OF THIS! >> One example of confirmation and added information came in >> the form of you >> specifying the price of one of the possibilities I'd >> mentioned (filing suit >> and having a sheriff help collect). > >and i pointed out that it would be unnecessary, because the >defendant in this case would have a serious desire to avoid >a judgment and, if one was entered, a serious desire to >satisfy it. open your ears! OPEN YOUR OWN! I said the same thing in the post you bashed!!! Remember this: >If it looks like you are going to go that far though, >he may just pay you to avoid the hassle. Perhaps if you could read a bit better, none of this would have been necessary? You got your feeling hurt by what I had at the end, so your brain forgot all that I'd said beforehand maybe? I guess some lawyers just take everything personally. (this is where you shout "I DO NOT!"...) >> Your confirmation >> seemed to contradict >> your claim of complete error on my part...unless you were >> in error too? > >you lost me in all of this bullshit. A lawyer who can't follow a non-simple thought? I didn't think that was possible. Convoluted logic is their stock in trade! I won't confuse you again by trying to explain it to you. >i wonder if anyone is >able to follow you. people, please chime in if you >understand what mr. 10k post is saying here. Sure, go ahead. If anyone ELSE needs help, just ask. It's really not that complicated. >> Are you saying that what I said about what is required to >> form a contract >> is wrong? In what way? It's straight out of the book >> )as near as I >> remember anyway) used for my business law class (which, >> as I said, was >> several decades ago). It's one of the things I wrote, >> and if everything I >> wrote was wrong, that would have to be wrong, but unless >> the definition of >> "contract" has changed since the mid-70s, I don't think I >> am. > >your simplified explanation of the elements of a contract >sounded about right. however, your reading on whether or >not a contract had been formed between huson and the >unnamed attorney was, in my opinion, incorrect. i pointed >out why the element of consideration (#3 in your outline) >HAD been satisfied in the instant scenario. put down the >keyboard and re-read my post. I don't remember you stating HOW the consideration requirement was met, but I do remember you saying that it had been. You are probably right about that, but it's not something that meets the requirements they gave us in school (they suggested that "something of value", such as the proverbial $1, was required, and I didn't see anything in placing an order that conveyed anything like that. That seemed more like an offer than consideration.) I'm not about to place my high school business law class against a post-graduate degree and the classes required to get it though...that's why I started my original post with a disclaimer. If you say there was consideration there, then there probably was. >> Are you sure that *everything* I wrote was wrong? Or >> just the part about >> it being the lawyers fault that the system works so >> poorly? > >jesus.... did i say "everything" you wrote was wrong? NO. Yes, you did: > what a crock of shit! ALL OF THIS! That appeared almost at the end of your post in response to my post. "ALL" means "everything", and the location at the end tends to include everything above. I did make what I thought was a reasonable assumption in excusing your own words in your reply from your comment though, and just took it as applying to my words. Was that wrong? >> >> > I think your generalizations are getting in the way >> of >> >> >rational thought ;-) >> >> >> >> Perhaps, but the pattern is there. Check out >> >> http://www.StellaAwards.com >> >> for some really egregious examples. I've also gotten >> >> more from talking >> >> with my ex-wife (legal secretary) and her bosses >> >> (partners in a major law >> >> firm in D.C.). Seen still more at companies I've >> worked >> >> for over the >> >> years, and from my Dad's experiences with suing the >> >> government for a >> >> blatantly illegal action taken by the Navy, and... >> > >> >ah.... now we're getting down to it. the legal secretary >> >said so! plus, my father lost a case! the system MUST be >> >flawed! >> >> You really don't seem to be too good with the logic >> thing, or maybe it's >> reading ability? Or perhaps you are just being a lawyer, >> and trying >> desperately to ignore anything that contradicts your >> case, while banging >> the table to draw attention to anything at all that might >> even look like it >> supports your claims? > >, > >i'd love to sit around all night and argue about whether or >not i can think logically, but, honestly, i'd rather take a >shit. i'm serious. you friggin bore me. There's the rational thought and lawyerly word weilding we've all come to know and hate! When you can't win on facts and logic, just shit and run! >> >> Don't believe me? Try getting your right to keep and >> >> bear arms back...what >> >> does it cost to fight a case to the Supreme Court >> these >> >> days? >> > >> >has my right to bear arms been curtailed? please >> >elaborate. i'm not certain which if any of us has the >> >standing to pursue such a case. >> >> I do, because mine has. Check the laws in Maryland. >> What do you suppose >> would happen if I tried to buy an M-16? A pistol of any >> sort? What would >> happen if I took it with me when I went hiking? If it >> was concealed? If >> it wasn't? What are my chances if I tried to get a >> concealed carry permit >> so that I could exercise my rights while cooperating with >> the government >> bureaucrats? > >i suppose you'd like to carry around a warhead too? No, I don't think I could throw one far enough to be outside the blast zone when it went off. I'm not suicidal. > or >carry an automatic weapon on the subway or to a ballgame. I, personally, don't have any desire to do that, but that's just because I don't see any prevailing need to do so at the moment that would make up for the expense and inconvenience involved in doing so. I don't see any reason why I shouldn't though, and there could easily be times when it would be wise...if the law wasn't telling me I can't in violation of the Constitution. >in your opinion, can there be a line drawn between what is >reasonable and what is not? if not, GET REAL! if so, >where is the line and who should draw it? Yes, there is a line. The line is where the founding fathers drew it. It will stay there until we erase it and draw it somewhere else. They gave us an eraser to do that with afterall, so there's no need to just ignore the line and do what seems expedient. The current practice of passing laws that violate the Constitution for political gain, rather than doing things properly is my first objection to our anti-gun laws (and a few others, such as "civil forfeiture"). Who should draw it? Someone very wise I hope. That pretty much rules out the legislature, but unfortunately, they have the crayon according to the rules. Where should it be drawn is the obvious next question. I tend to side with some of the founding fathers on that one. We, the people, should have access to those arms in common use in the military of the time. More specifically, individual weapons of the military. Crew-served weapons should be owned jointly by groups, such as townships or authorized private groups. Individual weapons would include rifles, shotguns, pistols, knives, bayonets, hand grenades, etc.. The second amendment isn't about hunting and sport...those were considered too obvious to bother with. The 2nd Amendment was almost considered too obvious to need stating, but one of the wiser folks insisted anyway, knowing how things would go. He just didn't figure on our current abandonment of the Constitution without actually amending it as it requires when change is desired. Should any idiot be allowed to own firearms without limit? Of course not. Any sane and law-abiding adult should have the option though. A requirement to get competent instruction first isn't out of line, as it serves to meet the need that the right is based on: common and individual defense. The same should go for knives, gasolene, bleach, fertilizer, insecticide, and any other item that could be dangerous if misused. Failure to get competent instruction first might constitute neglegence if such instruction might have prevented harm. Seem reasonable? If not, where not? Asuming you are done in the john now... >> So, where are the attorneys who are champing at the bit >> to take on a >> Constitutional challenge to our anti-gun-rights laws, pro >> bono? > >if your best case is "i want to carry my m-16 but maryland >won't let me do it" then say so. I don't want to carry an M-16...I want the right to do so back. I'll decide later whether the situation warants using the right or not. BTW - it's not just Maryland that says I can't...it's the Federal Government...and there is no need to have the 14th Amendment brought into it to see whether the 2nd applies to them or not. It does. The first law that I know of that said that I can't have an M-16 was the gun control act of 1936. It restricted ownership of fully-automatic weapons, which the M-16 is ("select fire" is a more proper term, as it is switchable between automatic and semi-automatic). It didn't totally ban ownership though. That came in 1986 I believe...with current owners "grandfathered" for the guns they already had. The Clinton gun ban added yet more restrictions. Maryland's laws say that I can't carry a loaded firearm off of my own property, except to go to or from a place of sale, a gunsmith, or formal or informal practice. There are restrictions on how I must transport it even then. If I want to "keep and bear arms" at other times, or have the weapon ready for use, I have to ask permission from a judge...making this a privelege, not a right...when it is clearly a right according to the Constitution. A judge is unlikely to say "yes" in my case, as I don't work as a cop, transport large sums of money as a part of my job or business, or have other "acceptable reasons" for wanting one. Self-defense is NOT considered "acceptable reason". Maryland also banned all handguns in the late '80s...with a provision in that ban law to potentially allow sale and ownership of a select list of pistols. There was no requirement for such a list to exist, and nothing in the law that described how it would be decided which were and which were not put on the list (I have actually read this law in detail). It did describe the makeup of the commission that would think about it though. It was a defacto ban on all handguns. As it turned out, the political backlash was greater than the governor of the time (Shaefer) anticipated, so the commission actually did produce a list, and put every gun requested (well over 400 different models) on it, with two exceptions. One of those was reconsidered and added on appeal, the other was never appealed. In effect the law is still there, but currently doing nothing to limit availability of handguns...just costing the taxpayer money for the commission and the list printing and mailing. That could change at any time though, with a change to the list. There are lots of laws that infringe the right to keep and bear arms...pick a few. >identify the law in >question. prove to me that it will be enforced as you >claim. better yet, get charged with violating it. i'll >find you an attorney. How about if I apply for a concealed carry permit, and have it denied? I have no criminal record at all, I'm not mentally incompetent, I'm gainfully employed and have been almost continuosly since 1973, and I own my own home. I don't even get drunk (not since college anyway...found I don't like hangovers). What reason could there be for denying me my rights? None that I can see...but I expect that they would be, and even having to ask for them is objectionable. I don't have to seek permission to vote, so why should I need permission to carry a weapon? They are both Constitutionally guaranteed rights. >if you've got a better case (i truly hope so), let's hear >it. I've got lots more, but I'm sure you get the idea, and you've been complaining about long posts (with some justification, but it's not a simple subject). I'll leave it here. If you want to continue, how about we take it off list? >to those dcc listers who actually wasted the time reading >through HIS post and MY response, i apologize. what a >waste of bandwidth. Don't know about ALL of it being a waste, but the angry parts sure were. It's certainly off topic though, and I appologize for that. I won't follow up here again on this topic. -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 06:46:45 2003 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 07:01:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Engine Rebuild On Mon, 21 Jul 2003, Michael H. Moore wrote: > > So I killed the engine on my 02' GS500 a few weeks ago. I took it apart and > found that one of the connecting rod bearings failed, which caused some > damage to the crankshaft and to the connecting rod. I'm sending the crank > to www.faliconcranks.com to rebuild it. They quoted me about $275. Does > that sound fair? There was a thread recently on the suzukihayabusa.org message board. The nearly unanimous opinion was to avoid Falicon. The recommendation was to use APE. > Now I need to track down a connecting rod, a bearing kit, gasket kit, and > piston rings. Whose the best retailer for things like this? Also, does > anyone know how to determine what size bearings you need? I've been told > that the bearings are specific to the crank, and replacements are sold in a > range of sizes. Are local dealer prices much different than an online store > like www.bikebandit.com? > > Finally, any words of wisdom on reassembling the engine? Is there anything > else I should replace while I'm in there? I always spend the $$ and have my local machine shop assemble the bottom end :-) If you're replacing a connecting rod, don't you want the rotating assembly balanced, too? -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 07:54:47 2003 Reply-To: From: "Michael H. Moore" To: Subject: RE: Engine Rebuild Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 08:20:37 -0400 > The nearly unanimous opinion was to avoid Falicon. >The recommendation was to use APE. I checked APE out, but their web site says they only work on inline 4's. The GS is a twin. Why is Falicon's reputation so bad? Would I be better off buying a new crank (new for about $550, twice the cost of rebuilding)? mike From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 08:15:29 2003 Reply-To: "Jon Strang" From: "Jon Strang" To: Subject: XOR case Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 08:15:26 -0400 I think you exaggerate the case. The "XOR cursor" patent, filed in the mid 1970's IIRC, isn't for the logical operation XOR itself. That would be like patenting multiplication. The XOR part is actually part of a larger patent that included a bunch of other display stuff, but the XOR part is about using XOR to dynamically draw/redraw a raster when you move a cursor (or anything else) around. IMO, a ludicrous thing to patent (kinda like patenting the use of multiplication to figure out the area of a rectangle), but not on the same level as patenting the basic operation itself. And in 197x, most people couldn't spell rasster. In any case, they successfully defended it in court (didn't just settle), so tough titty said the kitty. I'm only responding to this part of your argument(s), since it's one I'm familiar with. But based on the level of hyperbole and exageration you used in this instance, everything else you've said is suspect in my eyes. In any case, lawyers didn't dream this up. Businessmen with technical knowledge did, and hired lawyers to make it work. Engineers do their best to design what management wants, and advise them (sometimes) when they are being stupid. Attornies are no different, just subsitute "do lawyer stuff" for "design". Blaming lawyers for your laundry list of societal ills is like blaming the hammer when you hit your finger. Businessmen do whatever it takes to make money, and its called capitalism. --jon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Bartman" To: "Tom Gimer" ; Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 10:03 PM Subject: Re: Lawyers? (non-moto request) > /* snippage */ Someone actually patented > the exclusive-OR operation for crying out loud...and sued, and got paid > because of the cost of defending against the claim. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 08:19:30 2003 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 08:33:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: RE: Engine Rebuild On Tue, 22 Jul 2003, Michael H. Moore wrote: > > The nearly unanimous opinion was to avoid Falicon. > >The recommendation was to use APE. > > I checked APE out, but their web site says they only work on inline 4's. > The GS is a twin. Why is Falicon's reputation so bad? Would I be better > off buying a new crank (new for about $550, twice the cost of rebuilding)? I really don't know, Michael. Have you checked around at local machine shops for costs on reconditioning your stock crank? I have a shop that I use here in MD. I can get you their contact information. He primarily works on my car engines, but he also does motorcycles. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 08:21:04 2003 From: "Rob Keiser" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Amazing...bicycle helmets?? Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 08:09:17 -0400 Wayne, In my experience, (two piece Roadcrafter couple years) the jacket does a decent job with venting (while moving, of course) but the pants are god awful hot. Of course it doesn't help much that mine are all black and a little snug, but some kind of creative venting would be much appreciated for the legs. You're welcome to borrow it sometime if you'd like to try it out. What JR set up do you have? Rob '98 VFR800 > Also, FWIW I rode to work and to my clients today in DC with full Stich' > > and helmet. It really didn't seem to be all that bad because it was > rather cloudy. When it's humid with beating sun then it's time to > suffer; it really doesn't matter what you wear so much. Are you using a 1pc Roadcrafter? How well does it vent while moving? I'm considering picking one up to facilitate easier and more frequent commuting. My 2pc Joe Rocket setup leaves me pretty wrinkled when I get to work. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 08:47:01 2003 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 08:46:56 -0400 From: "Chris Norloff" Reply-To: To: DC-Cycles Subject: Protective Coloration: Moto Scabbards. Hmmm ... I've wondered what a biker can do along the lines of nature's "protective coloration". That is, what to do to make it very clear to predators that you really don't want to be messed with. Perhaps a rifle scabbard slung across your back, or attached to the back of the bike would help. Yes, it might get a little too much official attention, and carrying anything that looked like a real gun might get you shot. But just carrying a gun case ... Chris Norloff ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Fish Flowers Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 07:48:20 -0700 (PDT) >Now that I've escaped the Socialist Republic of Chicago, it's legal for me >to own guns. Woot. One problem, though: I'm moto-only now, so carrying >rifles becomes, err, problematic. > >Does anyone know of a good source for rifle scabbards which you can sling >to a motorcycle? I suppose I could always sling a rifle over my shoulder, >but that would probably draw a little more official attention than I'd >really like. (Might be good to keep the bimbo-boxes away from me on the >highway, though.) > >I'd want something which can be securely fastened alongside the bike. >Weatherproof would be nice, but probably not essential. > >Fish. > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 08:55:53 2003 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 08:55:50 -0400 From: "Chris Norloff" Reply-To: To: Subject: Re: Lurid details of my crash (long) I hate stopping and waiting in a traffic lane to make a left turn. There's times I just pull over to the right to get off the road, then turn left. Chris Norlof ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Paul Wilson" Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 15:10:05 -0400 >Since there seems to be a modicum of interest. > >The scene: two-lane highway, leading to a bridge. Soft shoulder (grass) >with a slight-drop off. Guardrail up to the right. > >Bike at a full stop, awaiting oncoming traffic, with blinker on, waiting to >turn left into a parking lot with "The People of Illinois Welcome You" sign. >Van-type ambulance in my mirrors. Rut-roh. Not going to make it. Bam. >Crunch. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 09:04:00 2003 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 09:03:57 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Engine Rebuild To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >There was a thread recently on the suzukihayabusa.org >message board. The nearly unanimous opinion was to avoid >Falicon. The recommendation was to use APE. [Dave] Curious - why? was it due to some sort of bad deal, or actual problems with the work ? This would mark the 1st, and only time I've ever heard someone reccomend against using Falicon for crank work. Some of the tuner stroked cranks (not all of them) are subbed out to Falicon for work too. Of course, the only knock I've heard against APE was turnaround time... Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 09:27:34 2003 Reply-To: "Jon Strang" From: "Jon Strang" To: "Paul Wilson" , Subject: Re: Lurid details of my crash (long) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 09:27:06 -0400 V. glad to hear you are ok. --jon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Wilson" To: Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 3:10 PM Subject: Lurid details of my crash (long) > Since there seems to be a modicum of interest. > > The scene: two-lane highway, leading to a bridge. Soft shoulder (grass) > with a slight-drop off. Guardrail up to the right. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 09:30:23 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 09:30:09 EDT Subject: Re: Engine Rebuild To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/21/2003 11:17:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mhmoore@XXXXXX writes: > Also, does > anyone know how to determine what size bearings you need? I've been told > that the bearings are specific to the crank, Going on the assumption that you have a plain bearing engine. (I have never "gutted" a GS550) There will be a code stamped/painted on the cases and on the crank and a cross reference chart in the shop manual to tell you the _original_ sizes. If the bearing surface has been repaired (I can think of no other reason to send it to a machine shop) then the bearing size will be different anyhow and you will _need_ to use something like "Plastigage" to measure the clearances and then select the proper size based on that. (Double checking with plastigage is a good idea even if no changes have been made.) Easy! John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 09:32:44 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 09:32:32 EDT Subject: Re: Protective Coloration: Moto Scabbards. To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/22/2003 8:47:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time, cnorloff@XXXXXX writes: > But just carrying a gun case ... I have been told that the dumbest thing you can do (best way to get shot) is to carry an unloaded gun. I would think an empty gun case would fit under that statement. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 09:33:57 2003 Reply-To: wayne@XXXXXX From: "wayne@XXXXXX" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Amazing...bicycle helmets?? Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 09:33:49 -0400 Thanks, Rob! I have a JR Ballistic jacket and their Ballistic 3.0 pants. It's a pretty decent setup for the money (probably < $200 spent on the 2 pieces together, from newenough.com), but I'd rather spend the cash for a more convenient setup now :-) -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ Original Message: ----------------- From: Rob Keiser robkeiser@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 08:09:17 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Amazing...bicycle helmets?? In my experience, (two piece Roadcrafter couple years) the jacket does a decent job with venting (while moving, of course) but the pants are god awful hot. Of course it doesn't help much that mine are all black and a little snug, but some kind of creative venting would be much appreciated for the legs. You're welcome to borrow it sometime if you'd like to try it out. What JR set up do you have? Rob '98 VFR800 -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 09:48:16 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: , Subject: Re: Amazing...bicycle helmets?? Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 09:47:43 -0400 I had the JR Ballistic pants for about one season. Awfully hot. They are lined Cordura. FWIW, the Motoport Ultra II jacket and pants combo I've been wearing for over a year have worked great. They Cordura is un-lined, so they breathe directly through the fabric. They've seen me through two trips to the West now, including several days of riding in temperatures well over the century mark. The Motoport has a separate waterproof lining. But for the deluges I encountered in Ohio, I wouldn't have needed the linings at all on my trip. www.motoport.com Paul in DC ----- Original Message ----- From: > Thanks, Rob! > > I have a JR Ballistic jacket and their Ballistic 3.0 pants. It's a pretty > decent setup for the money (probably < $200 spent on the 2 pieces together, > from newenough.com), but I'd rather spend the cash for a more convenient > setup now :-) > > -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ > > > Original Message: > ----------------- > From: Rob Keiser robkeiser@XXXXXX > > In my experience, (two piece Roadcrafter couple years) the jacket does a > decent job with venting (while moving, of course) but the pants are god > awful hot.... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 09:59:36 2003 Subject: Re: Amazing...bicycle helmets?? From: Carl Schelin To: Carl Parker Cc: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Date: 22 Jul 2003 09:55:18 -0400 On Mon, 2003-07-21 at 19:20, Carl Parker wrote: > Can someone legally wear bicycle helmets on motorcycles? I know they > have the same cert organization stickers on em' but i'd guess they have > different impact standards. > And people who wear no padding beanies are called nuts. I have one of these helmets. The foam is still styrofoam but it's not as hard. Still, I wouldn't want to ride down the road with these nuts and wearing just a bike helmet. > Also, FWIW I rode to work and to my clients today in DC with full Stich' > > and helmet. It really didn't seem to be all that bad because it was > rather cloudy. When it's humid with beating sun then it's time to > suffer; it really doesn't matter what you wear so much. > I backed the bike out of the garage yesterday morning (slight hill to the road) and was starting to sweat while sitting there waiting for her to warm up. > Carlo > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 10:10:35 2003 Subject: Re: Lawyers? (non-moto request) From: Carl Schelin To: Mike Bartman Cc: "William J. Huson" , rich hall , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 22 Jul 2003 10:06:18 -0400 On Mon, 2003-07-21 at 22:15, Mike Bartman wrote: > What model do you have? I'm looking at the FLSTC, though the Fat Boy is > very nice too...for the sort of things I want to do anyway (afternoon > joyrides, weekend day trips, that sort of thing). If I was going to do the > "once around the country" thing that some have been writing about, I'd > probably be more interested in a different bike. :^) > I had an FLSTC and rode it down to Daytona two years ago and enjoyed the heck out of it. My wife took some rides with me down Skyline and other short day rides and didn't like the passenger seat or pegs. I'm taking my FXSTI out to Boise in a few weeks. I bought the NessTech forward control extenders (adds 3") but also bought a Corbin solo seat and boots which pretty much negated the extenders (but are better than having my knees in my armpits without them :-) I'm considering either having a 5" extender made (new brake line, new shift bar(?) along with replacement plates) or getting one of the 3" extended forward control kits and still having to get a new brake line and shift bar. > -- Mike > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 10:26:07 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Amazing...bicycle helmets?? Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 10:26:00 -0400 > On Mon, 2003-07-21 at 19:20, Carl Parker wrote: > > Can someone legally wear bicycle helmets on motorcycles? No. To be legal, M/C helmets have to be certified to meet DOT motorcycle helment standards. No bicycle helmet is going to pass them. DOT allows helemt manufacturers to self certify, but they face stiff fines for intentional misuse. OTOH, it's apparentlly pretty easy to buy DOT stickers and apply them to any helmet you choose. Bob Meyer '92 Standard STOC # 1157 If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 10:50:58 2003 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 07:50:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Funny anti-harley rant To: DC Cycles http://www.goingfaster.com/angst/noharley2.html I am in no way trying to insult the fine Harley riders on this list. At least not too much (-: ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 10:55:07 2003 From: Jason Picton To: Subject: FW: for anyone who doesn't believe that gear is a good thing... L ook at this.... Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 10:54:08 -0400 For those who don't believe gear is a requirement to riding bikes... Take a look at this.... http://hometown.aol.com/shadowdncr/index.html This is what remains of my superhawk and brand new helmet after a highside accident.... I lost the rear in some unseen gravel (shade) in an easy sweeper at not a high rate of speed, when the bike hooked backup, I might have been able to ride it out if the road had not gone to the left and there was a guardrail... It was totally my fault, I was over confident as I had been on the same road many times at higher speeds and THOUGHT I knew what to expect, - ooooops.... If I hadn't of been wearing gear, I would be dead... Look at the helment and check out the striping on my jacket... gear is a good thing..... Jason jip98@XXXXXX 1998 Honda VTR1000 Superhawk (RIP) 1991 Suzuki GSF400 Bandit 1989 Honda NT650 Hawk GT 1988 Honda NX650 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 10:55:44 2003 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 07:55:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Weaver Subject: Re: Lawyers? (non-moto request) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Tom Gimer wrote: > jesus.... is it the lawyers or the system? They're one and the same. Every branch of our government "system" (executive, legislative, and judicial) is comprised of almost nothing BUT lawyers. Chris __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 11:10:37 2003 Subject: Re: FW: for anyone who doesn't believe that gear is a good thing... L ook at this.... From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 22 Jul 2003 11:06:22 -0400 Based on the headers, this was sent to the dc-cycles list so I'm replying to the list. Sorry if that wasn't your intent. Check out http://www.msgroup.org/CASESTUDY.html Lots of other interesting bike articles on the site if you haven't been there before. Carl On Tue, 2003-07-22 at 10:54, Jason Picton wrote: > For those who don't believe gear is a requirement to riding bikes... Take a > look at this.... > > http://hometown.aol.com/shadowdncr/index.html > > This is what remains of my superhawk and brand new helmet after a highside > accident.... I lost the rear in some unseen gravel (shade) in an easy > sweeper at not a high rate of speed, when the bike hooked backup, I might > have been able to ride it out if the road had not gone to the left and there > was a guardrail... It was totally my fault, I was over confident as I had > been on the same road many times at higher speeds and THOUGHT I knew what > to expect, - ooooops.... > > If I hadn't of been wearing gear, I would be dead... Look at the helment and > check out the striping on my jacket... gear is a good thing..... > > Jason > > jip98@XXXXXX > 1998 Honda VTR1000 Superhawk (RIP) > 1991 Suzuki GSF400 Bandit > 1989 Honda NT650 Hawk GT > 1988 Honda NX650 > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 11:11:20 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Christopher Weaver" , Subject: Re: Lawyers? (non-moto request) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 11:17:51 -0400 Really?? President - not a lawyer (oilman, dabbler, baseball team owner) Majority Leader, US Senate - not a lawyer (MD) Speaker of the House - not a lawyer (ex-schoolteacher) Majority Leader, House of Representatives - not a lawyer (ran exterminating company) I could go on, but I'll stop there. Now, of course, all these critters have attorneys that work for them. But that is what government does, it writes, enforces and interprets the law. Law is an instrument of politics, so politicians use the law, much like the previous post explaining how businessmen use the law as well. Paul in DC ----- Original Message ----- From: Christopher Weaver To: Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 10:55 AM Subject: Re: Lawyers? (non-moto request) > --- Tom Gimer wrote: > > jesus.... is it the lawyers or the system? > > They're one and the same. Every branch of our > government "system" (executive, legislative, and > judicial) is comprised of almost nothing BUT lawyers. > > Chris > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 11:16:13 2003 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 08:16:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Weaver Subject: Re: Lawyers? (non-moto request) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Okay, I will admit to being wrong about this. The majority of congressmen are not lawyers (except in the Senate where it's an even split at 50/50). But there ARE a damn lot of them: http://www.yourcongress.com/viewarticle.asp?article_ID=1465#slawyer Chris Weaver --- Paul Wilson wrote: > Really?? > > President - not a lawyer (oilman, dabbler, baseball > team owner) > Majority Leader, US Senate - not a lawyer (MD) > Speaker of the House - not a lawyer > (ex-schoolteacher) > Majority Leader, House of Representatives - not a > lawyer (ran exterminating > company) > > I could go on, but I'll stop there. Now, of course, > all these critters have > attorneys that work for them. But that is what > government does, it writes, > enforces and interprets the law. Law is an > instrument of politics, so > politicians use the law, much like the previous post > explaining how > businessmen use the law as well. > > Paul in DC > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Christopher Weaver > To: > Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 10:55 AM > Subject: Re: Lawyers? (non-moto request) > > > > --- Tom Gimer wrote: > > > jesus.... is it the lawyers or the system? > > > > They're one and the same. Every branch of our > > government "system" (executive, legislative, and > > judicial) is comprised of almost nothing BUT > lawyers. > > > > Chris > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site > design software > > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 11:28:09 2003 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: accident this morning on Ffx Co Pkwy Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 11:16:49 -0400 Anyone have any details on the accident this morning on Fairfax County Parkway? I heard they had a section closed due to a motorcycle accident. Doesn't sound good, hope they're alright. _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 11:32:01 2003 From: "stephen" To: Subject: Riding without lights in Rock Creek Park Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 11:34:44 -0400 On my way home from Screen on the Green last night, my XL600R's headlight went out as I was approaching a left. Once the lights of oncoming cars had passed me by, I was faced with an inky darkness where a turn was only moments before. I leaned in anyway as I turned on the high beam while thinking .. "what the Heck?" That high beam got me home but annoyed a couple of people coming the other way. I apologize to them all. A couple of times on the straights, I turned off the light for a second just to see what it would look like .. pitch black and frightening. If it ever happens to you, go for the high-beam, and hope it's still working. I guess this is a good reason to check that your high beam is working from time to time. Stephen From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 11:54:55 2003 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 08:55:15 -0400 (EDT) From: cvkgpena@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: BIKE NIGHT Aug 10th, 5-9pm @ Grevey's Cc: markkitchell@XXXXXX Yes, we're going to do a Bike Night this year. Sunday, August 10th, 5-9pm. Grevey's Restaurant & Sports Bar, 8130 Arlington Blvd., Falls Church, VA (intersection of Route 50 and Gallows Rd.), www.greveys.com. But this will be more than the "usual" Bike Night. This particular Bike Night will be in memory of my good friend Pete Wysocki, who recently passed away after losing his battle with cancer. I'm sure many of you remember Pete from his years as a Redsking. Some (many?) of you met Pete at previous Bike Nights. He was an avid motorcyclist and the guy who got me into motorcycling. He loved coming to Bike Nights, looking at all the different motorcycles, and talking with everyone. And his being at Bike Nights was never about Pete -- it was always about the motorcycles and him getting to meet the people that rode them. Kevin Grevey has generously agreed to donate a portion of the evening's proceeds to a local cancer-related charity. I'm still working with Gretchen Thompson (Pete's fiancee) to determine the exact charity. Direct contributions would also be welcomed and appreciated. When I have all the details finalized, I'll post all the relevant info on the Bike Night web page www.geocities.com/bikenight. In the meantime, please pass this info along to anyone and everyone else in the motorcycling community. Let's get a big crowd and see if we can't break triple digits for the number of motorcycles. I know Pete would be smiling and want to see them all. Chuck From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 11:57:21 2003 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 11:52:53 -0400 To: "Jon Strang" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: XOR case At 08:15 AM 7/22/03 -0400, Jon Strang wrote: >I think you exaggerate the case. The "XOR cursor" patent, filed in the mid >1970's IIRC, isn't for the logical operation XOR itself. That would be like >patenting multiplication. Exactly. >The XOR part is actually part of a larger patent that included a bunch of >other display stuff, but the XOR part is about using XOR to dynamically >draw/redraw a raster when you move a cursor (or anything else) around. Right. Doing that is something that is not patentable. It violates the "not obvious to one skilled in the art" requirement. It's like patenting using a shovel to move gravel, rather than dirt. Being the first to employ an obvious technique should not entitle one to a patent. Patents should be novel and non-obvious to be patentable...at least according to what the USPO says. I suspect the only reason they got that patent in the first place is that the USPO wasn't up to speed on software patents at the time. >IMO, >a ludicrous thing to patent (kinda like patenting the use of multiplication >to figure out the area of a rectangle), but not on the same level as >patenting the basic operation itself. Agreed on both counts. >And in 197x, most people couldn't spell rasster. Most people still can't... :^) >Blaming lawyers for your laundry list of societal ills is >like blaming the hammer when you hit your finger. I'm only blaming lawyers for the parts lawyers built and run. When a bridge falls down, I'll blame the engineers. -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 12:07:58 2003 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 12:07:08 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Control extensions on HDs (was: Re: Lawyers? (non-moto request)) At 10:06 AM 7/22/03 -0400, Carl Schelin wrote: >On Mon, 2003-07-21 at 22:15, Mike Bartman wrote: > >> What model do you have? I'm looking at the FLSTC, though the Fat Boy is >> very nice too...for the sort of things I want to do anyway (afternoon >> joyrides, weekend day trips, that sort of thing). If I was going to do the >> "once around the country" thing that some have been writing about, I'd >> probably be more interested in a different bike. :^) > >I had an FLSTC and rode it down to Daytona two years ago and enjoyed the >heck out of it. My wife took some rides with me down Skyline and other >short day rides and didn't like the passenger seat or pegs. That's nice to hear! My GF says she has no problems with the seat, though she'd prefer floorboards instead of pegs. I don't think she's ridden on one longer than a couple of hours though, so that opinion might change. :^) We did "test fit" it together, and I hardly know she's there, so seat room is fine at least. >I'm considering either having a 5" extender made (new brake line, new >shift bar(?) along with replacement plates) or getting one of the 3" >extended forward control kits and still having to get a new brake line >and shift bar. As near as I can see, moving the controls forward would require brake line and shift bar changes, but don't most of the control kits come with them? An exception to that would be the Bubba's kit...they leave the FLSTC's attachment point the same...they just slide the floorboards forward 2", and have longer pedal levers, with a narrower brake foot pad...the master cylinder and shifter pivot stay in the stock locations. I've wondered whether you could keep the stock controls, and just add a plate to move them forward. A more or less rectangular bit of metal, maybe 1/2" thick, drilled at one end to attach to the forward control attachment point, and drilled at the other end to hold the controls. That way you could keep whatever controls you have, they'd just be 2"-5" or so forward of where they started. Brake line and shift bar would have to be replaced with longer ones of course. Anybody see why something like that wouldn't work, so long as you stay far enough back to keep clear of the front fender? Would you need a bar running across, and perhaps attached to the down tubes, between them to keep them firm, or would the metal and three attachment bolts be enough? -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 12:14:24 2003 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 09:14:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: BIKE NIGHT Aug 10th, 5-9pm @ Grevey's To: cvkgpena@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: markkitchell@XXXXXX Chuck and I are excited to do something to honor Pete, who was a very nice guy and dedicated motorcyclist. If there is a good turnout for this event, we will probably do at least one at Carpool. Mark --- cvkgpena@XXXXXX wrote: > Yes, we're going to do a Bike Night this year. > Sunday, August 10th, 5-9pm. Grevey's Restaurant & > Sports Bar, 8130 Arlington Blvd., Falls Church, VA > (intersection of Route 50 and Gallows Rd.), > www.greveys.com. But this will be more than the > "usual" Bike Night. > > This particular Bike Night will be in memory of my > good friend Pete Wysocki, who recently passed away > after losing his battle with cancer. I'm sure many > of you remember Pete from his years as a Redsking. > Some (many?) of you met Pete at previous Bike > Nights. He was an avid motorcyclist and the guy who > got me into motorcycling. He loved coming to Bike > Nights, looking at all the different motorcycles, > and talking with everyone. And his being at Bike > Nights was never about Pete -- it was always about > the motorcycles and him getting to meet the people > that rode them. > > Kevin Grevey has generously agreed to donate a > portion of the evening's proceeds to a local > cancer-related charity. I'm still working with > Gretchen Thompson (Pete's fiancee) to determine the > exact charity. Direct contributions would also be > welcomed and appreciated. > > When I have all the details finalized, I'll post all > the relevant info on the Bike Night web page > www.geocities.com/bikenight. In the meantime, > please pass this info along to anyone and everyone > else in the motorcycling community. Let's get a big > crowd and see if we can't break triple digits for > the number of motorcycles. I know Pete would be > smiling and want to see them all. > > Chuck ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 12:15:41 2003 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'DCCycles'" Cc: "'dcpatti@XXXXXX'" Subject: Amazing Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 12:18:43 -0400 1. Paul in DC posted, "I was not injured in the slightest and had no pain the day after. Van driver asks me if I'm OK. I respond "aside from the fact you just trashed my bike and probably ruined my vacation, yeah, I'm OK." "So, my trip was saved, but it was very much in doubt for a few hours in Illinois." A property-damage only crash, one that's someone else's fault, is probably the best outcome you can have from a cage encounter. Glad the outcome was way better than it could have been. So, didja buy a lottery ticket? 2. Evil Carl Said, "While coming in this morning (9:30 or so) on the 14th street bridge, I slowly passed a 95th Edition H-D Tourer (Road King maybe) with a guy sitting on it wearing a Giro Bicycle Helmet." Likely better protection than some of the "beanies". Grodsky had an article many months ago professing, IIRC, that bike helmets should be offered as an alternative for some riders. 3. Bill - "bows are silent and lethal, I own two..." They're even more lethal if you use arrows 8^> 4. Gimer groused, "what a crock of shit! ALL OF THIS!" Aww Day-um, Then thar ain't gonna be no feudin' or raidin or other forms of justice-seeking? Bill Hedged, "The lawyer has contacted me and claims the package is sitting on his desk! Oops. So what's the deal with the USPS delivery confirmation system? Those jerks still think the delivery was refused, and are now feverishly (?) tracing the package since it was never returned to me." UPS did that one time with an order from Chaparral. After 10 days, I called "With a where're my levers?" She said sweetly, "They were returned with a 'delivery refused. It'll cost you double shipping to get them.'" Good thing those were going to be spares. 8^P 5. New Tires for ZR-7 Patti professed, " I went to Cycle Sport because they were the closest with the right tire in stock, but they also had the best price locally (and best I have found so far online is only $8 less when you add in the shipping). Mounting cost somewhere around $22, not sure if they jacked me or not, but in my opinion worth it... no struggling, no cussing, and I had the whole rest of the day to play on my new tire." So, you paid $8 more for the tire, plus $22 to have someone else mount it. It seems to me yer out $30, plus the fun of tahr rasselin', the pleasure in getting a deal, the pride of a job well done -- not to mention the benefit of working up a sweat while swearing and cussing. What am ah missing? Iz this wonna those gur-rul things? 8^D Carl in Bethesda (Easily amused) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 12:21:09 2003 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 12:14:19 -0400 To: DC Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Funny anti-harley rant At 07:50 AM 7/22/03 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote: >http://www.goingfaster.com/angst/noharley2.html > >I am in no way trying to insult the fine Harley riders >on this list. At least not too much (-: Wow. What an insecure person the author of that thing must be... -- Mike "not interested in racing, so why would I want a rice-rocket?" Bartman -- **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 12:32:44 2003 Subject: Re: Control extensions on HDs (was: Re: Lawyers? (non-moto request)) From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 22 Jul 2003 12:28:29 -0400 On Tue, 2003-07-22 at 12:07, Mike Bartman wrote: > At 10:06 AM 7/22/03 -0400, Carl Schelin wrote: > >On Mon, 2003-07-21 at 22:15, Mike Bartman wrote: > > > >> What model do you have? I'm looking at the FLSTC, though the Fat Boy is > >> very nice too...for the sort of things I want to do anyway (afternoon > >> joyrides, weekend day trips, that sort of thing). If I was going to do the > >> "once around the country" thing that some have been writing about, I'd > >> probably be more interested in a different bike. :^) > > > >I had an FLSTC and rode it down to Daytona two years ago and enjoyed the > >heck out of it. My wife took some rides with me down Skyline and other > >short day rides and didn't like the passenger seat or pegs. > > That's nice to hear! My GF says she has no problems with the seat, though > she'd prefer floorboards instead of pegs. I don't think she's ridden on > one longer than a couple of hours though, so that opinion might change. :^) > We did "test fit" it together, and I hardly know she's there, so seat room > is fine at least. > They have replacement passenger floorboards as well. > >I'm considering either having a 5" extender made (new brake line, new > >shift bar(?) along with replacement plates) or getting one of the 3" > >extended forward control kits and still having to get a new brake line > >and shift bar. > > As near as I can see, moving the controls forward would require brake line > and shift bar changes, but don't most of the control kits come with them? > > An exception to that would be the Bubba's kit...they leave the FLSTC's > attachment point the same...they just slide the floorboards forward 2", and > have longer pedal levers, with a narrower brake foot pad...the master > cylinder and shifter pivot stay in the stock locations. > > I've wondered whether you could keep the stock controls, and just add a > plate to move them forward. *snip* Actually that's what the NessTech extension kit is. You use your existing forward controls and they provide ($150 or so) the extended control bar, two braided brake lines with a replacement brake sensor and two plates to extend the controls. It's only a 3" extension though. I'd like it to be 5" or so. While the control kits do have the cables/bar, they don't when you combine kits. So if I use my existing 3" extension plates and add new 3" extension controls, I won't be able to use either of the provided replacement control bars or brake lines. Of course, a new control bar (threaded on both ends) and brake line aren't likely to cost all _that_ much. > > -- Mike Bartman > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 12:39:30 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: "stephen" , Subject: Re: Riding without lights in Rock Creek Park Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 11:40:24 -0500 On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 11:34:44 -0400, stephen wrote > On my way home from Screen on the Green last night, my XL600R's headlight > went out as I was approaching a left. Once the lights of oncoming > cars had passed me by, I was faced with an inky darkness where a > turn was only moments before. I leaned in anyway as I turned on the > high beam while thinking .. "what the Heck?" That high beam got me > home but annoyed a couple of people coming the other way. I > apologize to them all. Don't feel bad, drivers in DC do a lot of stuff to piss each other off, the least of which is riding with your high beam on cause your other beam is blown out. > > A couple of times on the straights, I turned off the light for a > second just to see what it would look like .. pitch black and frightening. > > If it ever happens to you, go for the high-beam, and hope it's still > working. I guess this is a good reason to check that your high beam > is working from time to time. Hehe maybe I should start keeping a spare bulb with me. I got the old 40/60 bulb from a prior upgrade to 80/100. > > Stephen -- Rob Sharp SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 12:46:11 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: "stephen" , Subject: Re: Riding without lights in Rock Creek Park Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 12:46:04 -0400 > From: "stephen" > > On my way home from Screen on the Green last night, my XL600R's headlight > went out as I was approaching a left. Once the lights of oncoming cars had > passed me by, I was faced with an inky darkness where a turn was only > moments before. I leaned in anyway as I turned on the high beam while > thinking .. "what the Heck?" That high beam got me home but annoyed a couple > of people coming the other way. I apologize to them all. > > If it ever happens to you, go for the high-beam, and hope it's still > working. I guess this is a good reason to check that your high beam is > working from time to time. I'd suggest a different approach: ride with your high beam on ALL THE TIME during daylight hours. Not only will this prolong the life of your low beam filament for when you really need it, but it makes you about 10 times more visible to oncoming traffic, and may save your life. A few weeks ago I led a small group on a ride out in the Shenendoah. Two of the three bikes following me had high beam on. I could keep them in sight even when we got quite far apart. The other was riding low beam. I frequently couldn't see him in my rear views, even when a high-beam using bike was visible much farther behind. Remember that the low beam is expressly designed NOT to put any light into the on-coming lane at eye level. But to be visible to oncoming (and left turning) traffic, that's exactly where you need the light to be. Especially with all the cars on the road with DRLs, riding with low beams only leaves you pretty close to invisible. Bob Meyer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 12:55:22 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Mike Bartman , DC Cycles Subject: Re: Funny anti-harley rant Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 11:56:19 -0500 Guy has a lot of points, but he is a ranting idiot. A simple bullet point list would summarize his points just fine. Wouldn't a Vrod be an innovation. It's a pretty drastic break with old Harley designs? Otherwise Harley designs are pretty set. I would like to see a V4 or Inline 4 or something cool come out of Harley someday. Buell is interesting but even they stick to the evolution engines. I guess you can argue don't mess with sucess which they seem to have. They only thing I have to say is that some Harley riders I talked to say they woudn't get a VRSC (Vrod) cause it's not harley enough. If you go to a Honda sport bike list we are constantly talking about new cool bikes we would all like to have (some of which aren't honda's even). Rob On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 12:14:19 -0400, Mike Bartman wrote > At 07:50 AM 7/22/03 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote: > >http://www.goingfaster.com/angst/noharley2.html > > > >I am in no way trying to insult the fine Harley riders > >on this list. At least not too much (-: > > Wow. What an insecure person the author of that thing must be... > > -- Mike "not interested in racing, so why would I want a rice- > rocket?" Bartman -- > > **************************************************************************** > * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation > Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled > Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options > Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *------------------------------ > --------------------------------------------* * "We do it > all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** -- Rob Sharp SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 13:01:12 2003 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:03:12 -0400 Subject: another bike for sale: GS1000 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "garcia oliver" For Sale: Suzuki GS1000, 1978, 25,000 miles. Looks great! Smooth, comfortable, powerful, good-handling road bike. Better than stock: DeRale oil cooler, S&W shocks, square section aluminum swing arm, fork brace, GSXR-1100 master cylinder, electronic ignition. Will send pix on request. For general Suzuki GS info, see [http://www.thegsresources.com/]. Things known to be wrong: seat doesn)B’t latch; missing instrument chrome covers ($5-30 on ebay); rear tire marginal; headlight switch missing plastic cover (cosmetic, not functional); side covers are missing Suzuki logo and one is cracked and attached with a bolt; fork dust covers taped. All minor stuff. Reason it)B’s being sold: (1) it’s too big for a stop-and-go city bike; (2) it)B’s too nice to park on DC streets where I live---bikes tend to get knocked over/stolen. Best offer over $1500. ---garcia ps: this bike is too big and too powerful to be anyone's first bike---so will not sell to first-time rider. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 13:08:08 2003 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:07:24 -0400 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Control extensions on HDs (was: Re: Lawyers? (non-motorequest)) At 12:28 PM 7/22/03 -0400, Carl Schelin wrote: >On Tue, 2003-07-22 at 12:07, Mike Bartman wrote: >> My GF says she has no problems with the seat, though >> she'd prefer floorboards instead of pegs. > >They have replacement passenger floorboards as well. Yep! Bubba's even has half moon ones to match their half moon rider FBs. >> I've wondered whether you could keep the stock controls, and just add a >> plate to move them forward. >*snip* > >Actually that's what the NessTech extension kit is. You use your >existing forward controls and they provide ($150 or so) the extended >control bar, two braided brake lines with a replacement brake sensor and >two plates to extend the controls. > >It's only a 3" extension though. I'd like it to be 5" or so. I'll take what I can get... :^) Glad to see I'm not the only one who could think of that idea! :^) If they have something like that to work on the FLSTC, it might be combined with Bubba's 2" extension to give 5" total. Have to check, but that might start to put me into front fender territory. Don't know if it's different on the Dynas. I'll do a search for MessTech and see if they have a web page. Thanks for the info! i was thinking I'd have to find a machinist and have them custom made. >While the control kits do have the cables/bar, they don't when you >combine kits. So if I use my existing 3" extension plates and add new 3" >extension controls, I won't be able to use either of the provided >replacement control bars or brake lines. For the Heritage using Bubba's extension floorboards that's not an issue. The plates would move things 3" and accomodate with matching brake and shift extensions, then Bubba's would slide the FBs forward without changing the mount points of the brackets or the master cylinder and provide longer shifter and brake pedal arms. Total shift is 5" for the feet, but the master cylinder and shifter arm only see 3" of it. Whatayathink? >Of course, a new control bar (threaded on both ends) and brake line >aren't likely to cost all _that_ much. Shouldn't...and might even be made at home with a tap and die set and some brake line parts. The braided brake lines are a little tricky to get right I think...the connectors have to go on just right or the hoses aren't tight. Might take some practice, but I'm just going based on what I've seen in books. Maybe it's easier than it looks. :^) -- Mike **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 13:08:09 2003 From: "Perry Coleman" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Funny anti-harley rant Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 12:56:59 -0400 I don't know. There is much that is true in there... Of course, I don't own a Harley, so I don't have any ego to protect in this matter. Perry >From: Mike Bartman >To: DC Cycles >Subject: Re: Funny anti-harley rant >Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 12:14:19 -0400 > >At 07:50 AM 7/22/03 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote: > >http://www.goingfaster.com/angst/noharley2.html > > > >I am in no way trying to insult the fine Harley riders > >on this list. At least not too much (-: > >Wow. What an insecure person the author of that thing must be... > >-- Mike "not interested in racing, so why would I want a rice-rocket?" >Bartman -- > >**************************************************************************** >* Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated >* >* Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered >* >* omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated >* >*--------------------------------------------------------------------------* >* "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! >* >**************************************************************************** > _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 13:21:33 2003 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:21:22 -0400 To: "Perry Coleman" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Funny anti-harley rant Yes, some of it is true, but he's got a pretty limited set of motives for why it doesn't matter to Harley riders. What he comes up with seems to indicate an inferiority complex...but perhaps not. Maybe he's just focused on racing, and anything else doesn't matter to him and he can't comprehend the mindset of anyone who doesn't give a fig about racing. Still seems pretty upset by the whole thing for some reason though. So what if the "performance" (i.e. acceleration and perhaps a top end only twice legal max rather than 3 times) isn't as good as some other bikes? I'm not interested in racing, so that isn't important. Ride comfort is. Ability to haul what I want to take with me is. Handling at reasonable speeds is. Ability to find after market accessories to meet my specific needs is. Harley is hard to beat on any of that stuff. The sound and the cool look and the reputation are just bonuses. :^) Needs and desires vary. That's why it's good that there is a whole range of bikes that meet them in various ways. I don't see any need to pick on rice rocket jockeys as frustrated sport bike track racers...maybe they are, maybe they aren't, but what good would it do to pick on them about it? Let them ride what they like, and I'll ride what I like and everyone will be happy. At least they aren't in cars... :^) -- Mike At 12:56 PM 7/22/03 -0400, Perry Coleman wrote: >I don't know. There is much that is true in there... > >Of course, I don't own a Harley, so I don't have any ego to protect in this >matter. > >Perry > >>From: Mike Bartman >>To: DC Cycles >>Subject: Re: Funny anti-harley rant >>Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 12:14:19 -0400 >> >>At 07:50 AM 7/22/03 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote: >> >http://www.goingfaster.com/angst/noharley2.html >> > >> >I am in no way trying to insult the fine Harley riders >> >on this list. At least not too much (-: >> >>Wow. What an insecure person the author of that thing must be... >> >>-- Mike "not interested in racing, so why would I want a rice-rocket?" >>Bartman -- >> >>**************************************************************************** >>* Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated >>* >>* Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered >>* >>* omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated >>* >>*--------------------------------------------------------------------------* >>* "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! >>* >>**************************************************************************** >> > >_________________________________________________________________ >Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail > **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 13:52:06 2003 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 10:52:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Funny anti-harley rant To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Reality check? --- Mike Bartman wrote: > > > So what if the "performance" (i.e. acceleration and > perhaps a top end only > twice legal max rather than 3 times) isn't as good > as some other bikes? > I'm not interested in racing, so that isn't > important. Performance of Harley's is abysmal. This has nothing to do with racing (you seem obsessed with racing). Its a matter of things like brakes and acceleration, which could easily be impoved by harley. Ability to haul what I want to take with me is. The two bikes referenced above, with proper bags, can take as much as a Harley. I did 3 months camping on a VFR and I do not travel light. > Handling at reasonable > speeds is. Probably the worst performance of the Harley is handling. This comes from my personal experience of course, and what I have heard from other. Most modern Japanese bikes have fully adjustable (and modern) suspensions. Harleys are circa 1950? Ability to find after market accessories > to meet my specific > needs is. Harley is hard to beat on any of that > stuff. If your specific needs include 200 lbs of crome, I agree. But if you are looking for increased performance, there are so many for the Japanese bikes. Bags? Ditto If you are looking for fringe leather jackets, thongs, and beer coolers, Harley is king. The sound and the > cool look and the reputation are just bonuses. :^) Sound and look is your opinion, is subject, so lets leave that alone. To each his own. However, the reputation of Harleys is, for the most part, determined by the poser, wanna-be crowd who may only buy the t-shirt. It is perputated by the (sterotype here) yuppie bad-ass wannabe who is willing to shell out buco $$$ for an image. An image they are desperate to be but never will be. The 'one percenter' (biker gangs) that created the badass image would make most Harley riders (and me) pee in their pants in fear. > > Needs and desires vary. That's why it's good that > there is a whole range > of bikes that meet them in various ways. I don't > see any need to pick on > rice rocket jockeys as frustrated sport bike track > racers...maybe they are, > maybe they aren't, but what good would it do to pick > on them about it? But by saying rice-rocket jockeys, you are picking on them. And by suggesting they are frustrated track racers, you are showing your lack of knowledge of that crowd. Most sportbike riders I have encountered have no interest in racing. In fact, the sportbike you can buy in the store really isn't the same bike that is out there racing. Sport bikers are, for the most part, about riding a high performance machine on interesting roads, while increasing their own skills all the time. The exceptions to that rule (cromeout Hayabusa ridden as a wheelie toy) are almost as bad as the harley crowd. Let > them ride what they like, and I'll ride what I like > and everyone will be > happy. At least they aren't in cars... :^) I think most non-Harley riders would agree with you. Except for the amazing amount of shit we get from the wannabe Harley crowd. If they let us ride our own ride, with respect, I don't think anyone would care. But if they really want to say their ride is the ONLY ride, then cold, hard facts need to be brought up. Obviously this guy is not the best writer. He could have said the same thing in 25% of the webspace. However, his facts are hard to dispute.... > > -- Mike > > At 12:56 PM 7/22/03 -0400, Perry Coleman wrote: > >I don't know. There is much that is true in > there... > > > >Of course, I don't own a Harley, so I don't have > any ego to protect in this > >matter. > > > >Perry > > > >>From: Mike Bartman > >>To: DC Cycles > >>Subject: Re: Funny anti-harley rant > >>Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 12:14:19 -0400 > >> > >>At 07:50 AM 7/22/03 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote: > >> >http://www.goingfaster.com/angst/noharley2.html > >> > > >> >I am in no way trying to insult the fine Harley > riders > >> >on this list. At least not too much (-: > >> > >>Wow. What an insecure person the author of that > thing must be... > >> > >>-- Mike "not interested in racing, so why would I > want a rice-rocket?" > >>Bartman -- > >> > >>**************************************************************************** > >>* Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered > Obfuscation Obliterated > >>* > >>* Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled > Opinions Offered > >>* > >>* omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined > Smiles Stimulated > >>* > >>*--------------------------------------------------------------------------* > >>* "We do it all! No job too small! No > price too high! > >>* > >>**************************************************************************** > >> > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 > months FREE*. > >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail > > > > **************************************************************************** > * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered > Obfuscation Obliterated * > * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled > Opinions Offered * > * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined > Smiles Stimulated * > *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* > * "We do it all! No job too small! No > price too high! * > **************************************************************************** > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 13:57:40 2003 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 10:57:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Funny anti-harley rant To: Mark Kitchell , dc-cycles@XXXXXX I apoligize for all those typos. The word is subjective I know. Thats what happens when you eat lunch while typing (-; --- Mark Kitchell wrote: > Reality check? > > --- Mike Bartman wrote: > > > > > So what if the "performance" (i.e. acceleration > and > > perhaps a top end only > > twice legal max rather than 3 times) isn't as good > > as some other bikes? > > I'm not interested in racing, so that isn't > > important. > > Performance of Harley's is abysmal. This has > nothing > to do with racing (you seem obsessed with racing). > Its a matter of things like brakes and acceleration, > which could easily be impoved by harley. > > > I do not see how a Harley is comfortable. The > incessant shaking and booming sound gave me a > headache. if you want comfort for a long trip, try > a > BMW or Honda VFR. Smooth and quiet (relatively). > > > > Ability to haul what I want to take with me is. > > The two bikes referenced above, with proper bags, > can > take as much as a Harley. I did 3 months camping > on > a VFR and I do not travel light. > > Handling at reasonable > > speeds is. > > Probably the worst performance of the Harley is > handling. This comes from my personal experience of > course, and what I have heard from other. Most > modern > Japanese bikes have fully adjustable (and modern) > suspensions. Harleys are circa 1950? > > Ability to find after market accessories > > to meet my specific > > needs is. Harley is hard to beat on any of that > > stuff. > > If your specific needs include 200 lbs of crome, I > agree. But if you are looking for increased > performance, there are so many for the Japanese > bikes. > Bags? Ditto > > If you are looking for fringe leather jackets, > thongs, > and beer coolers, Harley is king. > > The sound and the > > cool look and the reputation are just bonuses. :^) > > Sound and look is your opinion, is subject, so lets > leave that alone. To each his own. However, the > reputation of Harleys is, for the most part, > determined by the poser, wanna-be crowd who may only > buy the t-shirt. It is perputated by the (sterotype > here) yuppie bad-ass wannabe who is willing to shell > out buco $$$ for an image. An image they are > desperate to be but never will be. The 'one > percenter' (biker gangs) that created the badass > image > would make most Harley riders (and me) pee in their > pants in fear. > > > > Needs and desires vary. That's why it's good that > > there is a whole range > > of bikes that meet them in various ways. I don't > > see any need to pick on > > rice rocket jockeys as frustrated sport bike track > > racers...maybe they are, > > maybe they aren't, but what good would it do to > pick > > on them about it? > > But by saying rice-rocket jockeys, you are picking > on > them. And by suggesting they are frustrated track > racers, you are showing your lack of knowledge of > that > crowd. Most sportbike riders I have encountered > have > no interest in racing. In fact, the sportbike you > can > buy in the store really isn't the same bike that is > out there racing. Sport bikers are, for the most > part, about riding a high performance machine on > interesting roads, while increasing their own skills > all the time. The exceptions to that rule (cromeout > Hayabusa ridden as a wheelie toy) are almost as bad > as > the harley crowd. > Let > > > them ride what they like, and I'll ride what I > like > > and everyone will be > > happy. At least they aren't in cars... :^) > > I think most non-Harley riders would agree with you. > > Except for the amazing amount of shit we get from > the > wannabe Harley crowd. If they let us ride our own > ride, with respect, I don't think anyone would care. > > But if they really want to say their ride is the > ONLY > ride, then cold, hard facts need to be brought up. > > Obviously this guy is not the best writer. He could > have said the same thing in 25% of the webspace. > However, his facts are hard to dispute.... > > > > > > > -- Mike > > > > At 12:56 PM 7/22/03 -0400, Perry Coleman wrote: > > >I don't know. There is much that is true in > > there... > > > > > >Of course, I don't own a Harley, so I don't have > > any ego to protect in this > > >matter. > > > > > >Perry > > > > > >>From: Mike Bartman > > >>To: DC Cycles > > >>Subject: Re: Funny anti-harley rant > > >>Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 12:14:19 -0400 > > >> > > >>At 07:50 AM 7/22/03 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote: > > >> > >http://www.goingfaster.com/angst/noharley2.html > > >> > > > >> >I am in no way trying to insult the fine > Harley > > riders > > >> >on this list. At least not too much (-: > > >> > > >>Wow. What an insecure person the author of that > > thing must be... > > >> > > >>-- Mike "not interested in racing, so why would > I > > want a rice-rocket?" > > >>Bartman -- > > >> > > > >>**************************************************************************** > > >>* Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered > > > Obfuscation Obliterated > > >>* > > >>* Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled > > > Opinions Offered > > >>* > > >>* omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined > > > Smiles Stimulated > > >>* > > > >>*--------------------------------------------------------------------------* > > >>* "We do it all! No job too small! > No > > price too high! > > >>* > > > >>**************************************************************************** > > >> > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > >Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 > > months FREE*. > > >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail > > > > > > > > **************************************************************************** > > * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered > > Obfuscation Obliterated * > > * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled > > > Opinions Offered * > > * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined > > === message truncated === ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 15:06:49 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 15:06:38 EDT Subject: Re: Riding without lights in Rock Creek Park To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/22/2003 11:32:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time, frosty@XXXXXX writes: > I was faced with an inky darkness where a turn was only > moments before. Whew! Good job. Been there, done that, did _not_ like it. High beam failed also.... That was a major "OH! Shit!" The trick, like so many times is "Do not panic." John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 15:35:51 2003 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 15:36:33 -0400 To: Mark Kitchell , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Funny anti-harley rant At 10:52 AM 7/22/03 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote: >Reality check? > >--- Mike Bartman wrote: >> > >> So what if the "performance" (i.e. acceleration and perhaps a top end only >> twice legal max rather than 3 times) isn't as good as some other bikes? >> I'm not interested in racing, so that isn't important. > >Performance of Harley's is abysmal. This has nothing >to do with racing (you seem obsessed with racing). >Its a matter of things like brakes and acceleration, >which could easily be impoved by harley. I've seen the acceleration...it's more than adequate for anything other than racing. The brakes can be swapped for aftermarket ones if they aren't adequate as delivered...there are dozens of options there. If more horsepower is desired, there are ways to increase it, but it seems fine as it is. > >I do not see how a Harley is comfortable. The >incessant shaking and booming sound gave me a >headache. if you want comfort for a long trip, try a >BMW or Honda VFR. Smooth and quiet (relatively). Harleys are fairly large bikes, and I'm a much larger than average person. The BMW line includes some large bikes, but most Jap bikes are built for the under 6'2" crowd. Even Harleys are a bit cramped as delivered...but there are plenty of parts around (I'm finding) that can fix that. The shaking was common on older models (or so I hear...never rode one myself), but from what I've heard, the TC88B motors fix a lot of that...and it can't possibly be worse than it was on my Yamaha XT-550. That thing vibrated like a cheap lawn mower (550 cc, one cylinder...) and left my hands tingling despite the foam grip covers. The knobby tires didn't help much when riding on the road. :^) >> Ability to haul what I want to take with me is. > >The two bikes referenced above, with proper bags, can >take as much as a Harley. I did 3 months camping on >a VFR and I do not travel light. Lots of bikes can carry a good load. Not many can fit me and my 5'10" GF without crowding, and lots don't like the over 400 lb total weight. >> Handling at reasonable speeds is. > >Probably the worst performance of the Harley is >handling. This comes from my personal experience of >course, and what I have heard from other. Most modern >Japanese bikes have fully adjustable (and modern) >suspensions. Harleys are circa 1950? 1950 Harleys are. Modern ones have lots of things that weren't on the old bikes. Shocks, rear swing arms, that sort of thing. :^) I'm not interested in trials riding, and I've seen the cops training on Harleys doing the cones thing, the rapid lane change thing, etc., and they don't seem to have much trouble. This one is subject to change as I get more experience of course, and I'll keep in mind what you've said about yours. >> Ability to find after market accessories to meet my specific >> needs is. Harley is hard to beat on any of that stuff. > >If your specific needs include 200 lbs of crome, I >agree. But if you are looking for increased >performance, there are so many for the Japanese bikes. > Bags? Ditto Specific immediate needs include relocated foot controls so I can ride the bike at all. Couldn't find much of anything for my Honda in that respect back when I owned it. That was before the internet, so perhaps there was something out there that would have helped and I just couldn't find it. Eventual needs? Who knows? I'd like a way to mount my GPS, but ROM seems like a good way to do that and they fit lots of bikes. I'm mostly interested in functional additions, not so much the purely decorative ones, but that could change. >If you are looking for fringe leather jackets, thongs, >and beer coolers, Harley is king. Fringe leather would look good on a Heritage all right, but I was actually looking at the FXR jacket they have...nice heavy weight, removable liner, good padding...and the XXLARGE fits off the rack. Not cheap though. Not interested in thongs or beer coolers at all. >The sound and the >> cool look and the reputation are just bonuses. :^) > >Sound and look is your opinion, is subject, so lets >leave that alone. To each his own. Yep! >However, the >reputation of Harleys is, for the most part, >determined by the poser, wanna-be crowd who may only >buy the t-shirt. It is perputated by the (sterotype >here) yuppie bad-ass wannabe who is willing to shell >out buco $$$ for an image. An image they are >desperate to be but never will be. The 'one >percenter' (biker gangs) that created the badass image >would make most Harley riders (and me) pee in their >pants in fear. Actually the "bad ass" image was one of the things that kept me from considering Harleys sooner. I have no interest in being associated with that sort of thing. My new GF is into Harleys though, and has gotten me to take another look...and I've found that my impressions were either wrong or outdated. The people I've met in the last few months who are riding Harleys are anything but "bad ass biker wannabees". They are decent people who are open, friendly, helpful, and interesting. *That* sort of person I have no problem associating with, and it's a fine image if you ask me. >> Needs and desires vary. That's why it's good that >> there is a whole range >> of bikes that meet them in various ways. I don't >> see any need to pick on >> rice rocket jockeys as frustrated sport bike track >> racers...maybe they are, >> maybe they aren't, but what good would it do to pick >> on them about it? > >But by saying rice-rocket jockeys, you are picking on >them. And by suggesting they are frustrated track >racers, you are showing your lack of knowledge of that >crowd. Calling them rice-rocket jockeys is kidding them, but if it was offensive I apologize. What generic term would you like instead? "Japanese Cafe-style Street Racer Riders" is just too long to type. I didn't sat that they were frustrated track racers...I said they *might* be. I also said they might *not* be...and that it didn't matter anyway. The preoccupation with "performance" certainly indicates some sort of racing orientation in their thinking though...there's not much use for it other than going fast and getting fast in a hurry. You don't need a huge power to weight ratio to do 55 mph, or cruise along winding roads enjoying the spring afternoons. You do need it for racing or for riding like you are racing. >Most sportbike riders I have encountered have >no interest in racing. In fact, the sportbike you can >buy in the store really isn't the same bike that is >out there racing. Sport bikers are, for the most >part, about riding a high performance machine on >interesting roads, while increasing their own skills >all the time. The exceptions to that rule (cromeout >Hayabusa ridden as a wheelie toy) are almost as bad as >the harley crowd. Ok, if you say so, but that's the image they have, same as the one you have about Harley riders. Seems that both are wrong, except perhaps in a minority of the cases. >Let them ride what they like, and I'll ride what I like and everyone will be >> happy. At least they aren't in cars... :^) > >I think most non-Harley riders would agree with you. So would most Harley riders if the ones I've met so far are any indication. Several have said as much where I could hear it. >Except for the amazing amount of shit we get from the >wannabe Harley crowd. If they let us ride our own >ride, with respect, I don't think anyone would care. >But if they really want to say their ride is the ONLY >ride, then cold, hard facts need to be brought up. Seems fair enough to me. I remember the same sort of stupidity in the martial arts arena with the "my art is better than your art" arguments. An Aikido list I used to be on started sponsoring seminars where people from all varieties of Aikido, and whatever other arts were interested, could come and play together for a weekend. We had Judo folks, Jiujutsu folks, TKD folks, Karate folks...and Aikido folks from Ki Society, Aikikai, Yoshinkan, Iwama, and a couple of others...and after a couple of such seminars and the chatter on the list afterwards discussing them, people were amazed at how much more they had in common and how minor the differences were...and the arguments went away. There were still some "we do it this way" discussions, but they were more in the nature of trying to figure out why the differences didn't matter in the end, rather than arguing about who was doing it 'wrong'. Understanding requires openness and willingness to learn...and maybe a little time to let it sink in. We all like bikes...maybe we could start there? >Obviously this guy is not the best writer. He could >have said the same thing in 25% of the webspace. >However, his facts are hard to dispute.... I'm not disputing his facts, just his mindset and assumptions as to what is important. He has his opinion...I just have a different one. Same facts, different conclusion due to a different set of goals. As to verbosity, I'm not going near that one. ;^) -- Mike **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 15:52:58 2003 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 16:16:21 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Wayne Edelen Subject: Re: Funny anti-harley rant At 03:36 PM 7/22/03 -0400, Mike Bartman wrote: > >Performance of Harley's is abysmal. This has nothing > >to do with racing (you seem obsessed with racing). > >Its a matter of things like brakes and acceleration, > >which could easily be impoved by harley. > >I've seen the acceleration...it's more than adequate for anything other >than racing. The brakes can be swapped for aftermarket ones if they aren't >adequate as delivered...there are dozens of options there. If more >horsepower is desired, there are ways to increase it, but it seems fine as >it is. I rented a Harley for a weekend ride with my wife. We're not large peeps and the Harley was slower than my slowest car. It's acceleration is about what I'd expect from an economy car or even my large SUV. >The shaking was common on older models (or so I hear...never rode one >myself), but from what I've heard, the TC88B motors fix a lot of that...and >it can't possibly be worse than it was on my Yamaha XT-550. That thing >vibrated like a cheap lawn mower (550 cc, one cylinder...) and left my >hands tingling despite the foam grip covers. The knobby tires didn't help >much when riding on the road. :^) The newer Harleys with rubber mounted engines (Road Kings and Electra Glides?) are smooth, but the others (like the Softail I rode) shake like a dog shitting razorblades. > >But by saying rice-rocket jockeys, you are picking on > >them. And by suggesting they are frustrated track > >racers, you are showing your lack of knowledge of that > >crowd. > >Calling them rice-rocket jockeys is kidding them, but if it was offensive I >apologize. What generic term would you like instead? "Japanese Cafe-style >Street Racer Riders" is just too long to type. > >I didn't sat that they were frustrated track racers...I said they *might* >be. I also said they might *not* be...and that it didn't matter anyway. > >The preoccupation with "performance" certainly indicates some sort of >racing orientation in their thinking though...there's not much use for it >other than going fast and getting fast in a hurry. You don't need a huge >power to weight ratio to do 55 mph, or cruise along winding roads enjoying >the spring afternoons. You do need it for racing or for riding like you >are racing. And a lot of us that own sportbikes actually race them! Even us knuckledragging straight liners :-) -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 16:04:23 2003 From: "Perry Coleman" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Riding without lights in Rock Creek Park Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 16:04:14 -0400 Most (all?) Kawasakis for the last 20+ years have had a built-in failover to avoid that very problem. There is even an idiot-light labelled "Headlight" to indicate when it has switched from the (dead) low to high beam automatically. Nice feature. You would think other bikes would haved incorporated something similiar... Perry >From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: Riding without lights in Rock Creek Park >Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 15:06:38 EDT > >In a message dated 7/22/2003 11:32:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >frosty@XXXXXX writes: > > > I was faced with an inky darkness where a turn was only > > moments before. > >Whew! Good job. >Been there, done that, did _not_ like it. >High beam failed also.... >That was a major "OH! Shit!" > >The trick, like so many times is "Do not panic." > >John. >PenguinBiker@XXXXXX > _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 16:13:06 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 16:12:50 EDT Subject: Re: Riding without lights in Rock Creek Park To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/22/2003 4:04:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, perrycoleman@XXXXXX writes: > Nice feature. You would think other bikes would haved incorporated something > similiar... Most have incorporated an even better idea. Dual headlights. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 16:28:49 2003 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 16:31:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Funny anti-harley rant From: "Jeff Steele" To: "Mark Kitchell" Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Reply-To: jeff@XXXXXX > Performance of Harley's is abysmal. This has nothing > to do with racing (you seem obsessed with racing). > Its a matter of things like brakes and acceleration, > which could easily be impoved by harley. I have a different perspective than most on this topic because I ride a HD Sportster. As a result, I routinely get crap from non-HD people for having a Harley and from HD riders for having a "girl's bike". It is a definite overstatement to describe the performance of Harley's as "abysmal". Sure, they could accelerate better and stop faster, but they do both more than adequately. I have an 883, the most cojones-challenged bike in the bunch and I am quite satisfied with its acceleration. The brakes could be a little better and were upgraded the year after my bike was produced. At some point I might upgrade mine but they are adequate. > > I do not see how a Harley is comfortable. The > incessant shaking and booming sound gave me a > headache. if you want comfort for a long trip, try a > BMW or Honda VFR. Smooth and quiet (relatively). This is a criticism which is really only valid for Sportsters. The rest of the HD line either has rubber mounted engines or counter-balancers. If rumor is to be believed, Sportys will get rubber mounts next year. My main riding buddy has a BMW. Its as quiet as a sowing machine and as smooth as silk. Nevertheless, the shakes and rattles of the Sporty give it its character and is something I enjoy. What can I say, even in this age of teflon-covered cook pans, I think a cast-iron skillet still produces the best eggs and bacon. >> Ability to haul what I want to take with me is. > > The two bikes referenced above, with proper bags, can > take as much as a Harley. I did 3 months camping on > a VFR and I do not travel light. This is basically a "best tool for the job" arguement. Some Harley's are great for hauling things for long distances. Some other bikes are great for it as well. If that's what you want to do, get a bike that does it. Personally, I don't do that so I pretty happy with a bike that can't do it. > Probably the worst performance of the Harley is > handling. This comes from my personal experience of > course, and what I have heard from other. Most modern > Japanese bikes have fully adjustable (and modern) > suspensions. Harleys are circa 1950? Admittedly, among the first things I upgraded were both the front and rear suspensions on my bike. I did the work myself. It wasn't difficult, and wasn't too costly. You add to your criticisms the quality of the stock seats, which makes the suspension look cutting edge. That was quickly replaced as well. > If your specific needs include 200 lbs of crome, I > agree. But if you are looking for increased > performance, there are so many for the Japanese bikes. > Bags? Ditto > > If you are looking for fringe leather jackets, thongs, > and beer coolers, Harley is king. No arguement about the fringe and thongs. They are not my thing but plenty of them get sold. However, for performance accessories, I would find it hard to believe that the average Japanese bike has anything close to the selection, especially for older bikes. One advantage of Harley's reluctance to change is that you can still find almost anything for old bikes. > The sound and the >> cool look and the reputation are just bonuses. :^) > > Sound and look is your opinion, is subject, so lets > leave that alone. To each his own. However, the > reputation of Harleys is, for the most part, > determined by the poser, wanna-be crowd who may only > buy the t-shirt. It is perputated by the (sterotype > here) yuppie bad-ass wannabe who is willing to shell > out buco $$$ for an image. An image they are > desperate to be but never will be. The 'one > percenter' (biker gangs) that created the badass image > would make most Harley riders (and me) pee in their > pants in fear. One of the primary contradictions I find in the Harley community (if you can call it that) is their stated commitment to "freedom" while at the same time expecting that things are done a certain way. What kind of freedom is there if you are expected to wear the HD uniform of leather vest, beanie helmet, and chaps? I show up at HOG events riding a Sportster and wearing a full-face helmet, leather pants, leather jacket, leather gloves, and boots. This causes a considerable amount of angst among some of the others. But, to the majority's credit, I am accepted by the group and even was chosen as an officer. I think those that you describe above are a small minority of HD riders rather than the rule. > I think most non-Harley riders would agree with you. > Except for the amazing amount of shit we get from the > wannabe Harley crowd. If they let us ride our own > ride, with respect, I don't think anyone would care. > But if they really want to say their ride is the ONLY > ride, then cold, hard facts need to be brought up. The vast majority of riders I know on both HDs and others have no interest in religious wars based on brand of bikes. As I mentioned, I get shit from both HD and non-HD riders, but only a small number from either group. Your attitude seems to be that Harley's are nothing but over-priced, vibrating, under-performing collections of out-dated technology. I would be insulted were it not that my bike is an over-priced, vibrating, under-performing collection of out-dated technology. I happen to like it that way (that old beauty in the eye of the beholder thing). Plus, frankly speaking, Sportsters are not all that over-priced and I got a good deal on it used. Now, if we could just change the subject to riders on Super Sports with nothing but a $800 helmet, tank-top, shorts, and sandals.... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 16:42:28 2003 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 16:42:21 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Funny anti-harley rant At 04:16 PM 7/22/03 -0400, Wayne Edelen wrote: >I rented a Harley for a weekend ride with my wife. We're not large peeps >and the Harley was slower than my slowest car. It's acceleration is about >what I'd expect from an economy car or even my large SUV. Well, if it's as good as in my SUV, I'll be happy enough. I have a Jeep Grand Cherokee with a 5.2L V8...it gets up and moves pretty well. :^) >The newer Harleys with rubber mounted engines (Road Kings and Electra >Glides?) are smooth, but the others (like the Softail I rode) shake like a >dog shitting razorblades. My understanding is that the TC88B is always rubber mounted...is that wrong? If not, then all the softails have them in '03. The FLSTC is certainly a TC88B. I'm not sure about the Dynas...haven't looked that closely. >And a lot of us that own sportbikes actually race them! Even us >knuckledragging straight liners :-) And there's not a thing wrong with that that I can see, so long as it's either on a track, or only up to something around the speed limit. Racing on the street isn't wise for a number of reasons. Track racing is fine for those who like it, it just isn't what I'm interested in for myself. -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 16:43:56 2003 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 16:58:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Funny anti-harley rant On Tue, 22 Jul 2003, Jeff Steele wrote: > Your attitude seems to be that Harley's are nothing but over-priced, > vibrating, under-performing collections of out-dated technology. I would > be insulted were it not that my bike is an over-priced, vibrating, > under-performing collection of out-dated technology. That really made me laugh out loud, Jeff :-) > Now, if we could just change the subject to riders on Super Sports with > nothing but a $800 helmet, tank-top, shorts, and sandals.... I was over at my friend's shop a few weeks ago, getting an alignment on my race car. One of the kids there starts up his GSXR6CBRZX-whatever, puts on his $700 Vanson glow in the dark leather, $600 Arai replica and then hops on his bike sporting shorts and sneakers. :-) -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 16:52:50 2003 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 17:07:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Funny anti-harley rant On Tue, 22 Jul 2003, Mike Bartman wrote: > At 04:16 PM 7/22/03 -0400, Wayne Edelen wrote: > > >I rented a Harley for a weekend ride with my wife. We're not large peeps > >and the Harley was slower than my slowest car. It's acceleration is about > >what I'd expect from an economy car or even my large SUV. > > Well, if it's as good as in my SUV, I'll be happy enough. I have a Jeep > Grand Cherokee with a 5.2L V8...it gets up and moves pretty well. :^) It's good to have low expectations, then you won't be disappointed. > My understanding is that the TC88B is always rubber mounted...is that > wrong? If not, then all the softails have them in '03. The FLSTC is > certainly a TC88B. I'm not sure about the Dynas...haven't looked that > closely. I do not think it is always rubber mounted, only in certain models. One of the Harley guys on the list may be able to offer a better informed response. Most Harley shops rent bikes, you might want to rent a few and see which ones you like best. > And there's not a thing wrong with that that I can see, so long as it's > either on a track, or only up to something around the speed limit. Racing > on the street isn't wise for a number of reasons. Track racing is fine for > those who like it, it just isn't what I'm interested in for myself. I do race my bike (and car(s)) on the track. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 16:59:03 2003 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 17:02:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Funny anti-harley rant From: "Jeff Steele" To: "Mike Bartman" Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Reply-To: jeff@XXXXXX > My understanding is that the TC88B is always rubber mounted...is that > wrong? If not, then all the softails have them in '03. The FLSTC is > certainly a TC88B. I'm not sure about the Dynas...haven't looked that > closely. Actually, TC88Bs are never rubber mounted. The "B" is for "balanced". The TC88Bs are counter-balanced engines, but still solid mounted. The TC88 (no "B") is in the Dyna and Touring bikes. It is rubber mounted. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 17:02:54 2003 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 17:03:40 -0400 To: From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Funny anti-harley rant At 05:07 PM 7/22/03 -0400, Wayne Edelen wrote: >Most Harley shops rent bikes, you might want to rent a few and see which >ones you like best. I might want to do that, but it's not likely to be possible. Main problem is that I can't ride the stock bikes...the foot controls are positioned too far back for me to use. Secondary problem is that most rental places want recent riding experience on something of comparable size. My last riding was on a Honda 700 Sabre about 10 years ago. >> And there's not a thing wrong with that that I can see, so long as it's >> either on a track, or only up to something around the speed limit. Racing >> on the street isn't wise for a number of reasons. Track racing is fine for >> those who like it, it just isn't what I'm interested in for myself. > >I do race my bike (and car(s)) on the track. What sort of racing? Drag? Oval? Road? Ice? (just saw some of that on Corbin's Ride On on Speed Vision last night. :^) -- Mike **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 17:04:25 2003 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 17:05:04 -0400 To: jeff@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Funny anti-harley rant Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 05:02 PM 7/22/03 -0400, Jeff Steele wrote: >> My understanding is that the TC88B is always rubber mounted...is that >> wrong? If not, then all the softails have them in '03. The FLSTC is >> certainly a TC88B. I'm not sure about the Dynas...haven't looked that >> closely. > >Actually, TC88Bs are never rubber mounted. The "B" is for "balanced". The >TC88Bs are counter-balanced engines, but still solid mounted. The TC88 >(no "B") is in the Dyna and Touring bikes. It is rubber mounted. Thanks for the info! I knew about the balanced thing, wasn't sure about the mounts. -- Mike **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 17:22:29 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: , Subject: XM satellite radio review Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 17:28:55 -0400 I got my Delphi SkyFi XM satellite receiver unit (with the "vehicle" kit) just before my trip, and I've got a lot of experience now with the unit and thought you all might find it somewhat beneficial. I wired the thing up via my tankbag and used a Boostaroo as an amplifier to drive headphone speakers velcroed into my helmet lining. I also got an inline volume control from Radio Shack to adjust the volume. That said, at speed it needs to be turned up all the way to reach audible levels. The antenna mounts on a small bracket I fashioned that attaches near the mirror mount. The unit itself is velcroed to the map pocket on my RKA bag. The whole setup is contained in the bag, so all I need to do is unhook the bag and undo the trailer plug with the 12V supply in order to carry the whole business into a restaurant or motel room. Here's a photo of the setup. http://community.webshots.com/photo/82279429/82282959yPfcil Sound quality and reception is generally excellent. It does cut out and lose the satellite signal under heavy foliage or in tight canyons, under bridges, in narrow streets, under gas station canopies, etc. Terrestrial repeaters do help fill in the gaps in reception in major cities. It worked great all the way through Chicago, for instance, even under umpty-ump freeway overpasses. It is a little annoying to have it cut in and out in challenging riding areas out in the boondocks. I found myself simply turning it off sometimes, for that reason. Programming is excellent and wide-ranging: pop, rock, jazz, country, folk, talk radio, C-SPAN, news radio, Weather Channel, you name it. Many of the channels are commercial-free. Listening to some of the classical and jazz channels can be difficult when on the move. Inside the helmet, with earplugs and the wind noise, it's not exactly an audiophile environment. Some of the nuance, crispness and dynamic range of the broadcast gets lost. You realize what's missing when you come to a stop. Still, not bad for a de-constructed set of $8 headphones. Perhaps with a second Boostaroo I could get a little more oomph from the setup. The receiver unit controls are very easy to manipulate, even with gloves. It is not really designed for outdoor use, however, and needs a rain cover for foul weather. It was great having this little companion for the long days (and nights) in the saddle. I think the XM reciever will be a constant companion on trips of any length from now on. Works great around the house too, although that mean I have to negotiate with my wife for use of the unit. :-) One word of warning: make sure you engage the lock the holds the receiver into the vehicle cradle. I didn't engage it once and the unit went flying off the bike on a rough dirt road in New Mexico. It survived with a few scratches. Paul in DC, 95 VFR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 21:57:00 2003 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 18:56:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Lawyers? (non-moto request) To: Mike Bartman , "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" i'd like to respond to the latest drivel, but i've got my hands full with an eight-day-old son to tend to, and some things are considerably more important than others. i'll get to this in turn. --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 07:58 PM 7/21/03 -0700, Tom Gimer wrote: > >--- Mike Bartman wrote: > >> At 02:17 PM 7/21/03 -0700, Tom Gimer wrote: > >> >no need to suggest "fixes". everyone listening to > this > >> >crap has the ability to avoid litigation by including > in > >> >their contracts a provision requiring mediation, > >> >arbitration, etc. rather than litigation. > >> > >> That's fine for contract situations. What about > >> manufacturing for sale to > >> the public? Lawyers damn near wiped out the light > >> airplane industry in > >> this country...it took an act of Congress to get them > off > > > >explain to me how _lawyers_ did this. > > They passed the laws. They ran the courts. They argued > the 'theories' > used to reach decisions. They created and operated the > system in which it > happened. They can't escape blame as a group, though > individual lawyers > might make a case to be excused. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 22:22:26 2003 From: "Mobacc" To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: In Stiches (was Re: Amazing...bicycle helmets??) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 22:17:01 -0400 From: Wayne Edelen On Mon, 21 Jul 2003, Carl Parker wrote: > Also, FWIW I rode to work and to my clients today in DC with full Stich' > > and helmet. It really didn't seem to be all that bad because it was > rather cloudy. When it's humid with beating sun then it's time to > suffer; it really doesn't matter what you wear so much. Are you using a 1pc Roadcrafter? How well does it vent while moving? I'm considering picking one up to facilitate easier and more frequent commuting. My 2pc Joe Rocket setup leaves me pretty wrinkled when I get to work. ****** With 4 Stich 1pc summers behind me, allow this offering: o With the multitude of venting and leg, wrist and body zippering one can stay comfortable at even small constant speeds well into the 90s. In stop and go traffic sweat happens in those hi temps, particularly with normal clothing. o After some use one gets a feel for packing-or-wearing *occasion clothes*, wx dictating. Some materials handle undersuit better than others. Summer packing is very easy -- just find the nearest telephone booth for a quick garment switch (uh oh -- what would S'man do in these boothless times). I've never had a problem with checkrooms**, restroom change, etc. Try one out somehow -- or buy a used with little to be lost if resale quickly. I find the peace of mind and ease of in/out irreplaceable (though t'would add if the company had a dye-renewal program -- sun/wx takes its toll on the red color I have). Offlist me for queries (sorry, haven't worn Joe Rocket gear). **I stuff the tops of my boots into the helmet bottom so it all sits upright. Stops the lay desire to rest the lid on its top. Bill S. / DC '99 VN750 > Could have used 'Stich protection the other day. Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 22:32:20 2003 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 21:32:18 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Sean Jordan Subject: Re: Lawyers? (non-moto request) Gimer wrote: >but i've got my hands full with an eight-day-old son to tend to Egads! Gimer has procreated! Surely the world never seemed so bleak..... In all seriousness, congratulations! Out of curiosity, what day was he born? -Sean Jordan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Jul 22 23:23:09 2003 From: "LindaT." To: "Dc-Cycles \(Dc-Cycles\)" Subject: RE: Lawyers? (non-moto request) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 23:22:44 -0400 Mazel Tov!! My God, Tom's a dad!! Woohoo. I assume mom is fine as well? LindaT. http://www.customtankbags.com Now - TankBags for 1800 Wings Springfield, VA (suburb of our nation's capital) AMA IBA HSTA BMWBMW 99 R1100RT Mr. Buzzy 95 F3 Purple Haze 00 KLR250 Super Sherpa Tenzing -----Original Message----- From: Tom Gimer [mailto:t_gimer@XXXXXX] Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 9:57 PM To: Mike Bartman; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Lawyers? (non-moto request) i'd like to respond to the latest drivel, but i've got my hands full with an eight-day-old son to tend to, and some things are considerably more important than others. i'll get to this in turn. --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 07:58 PM 7/21/03 -0700, Tom Gimer wrote: > >--- Mike Bartman wrote: > >> At 02:17 PM 7/21/03 -0700, Tom Gimer wrote: > >> >no need to suggest "fixes". everyone listening to > this > >> >crap has the ability to avoid litigation by including > in > >> >their contracts a provision requiring mediation, arbitration, etc. > >> >rather than litigation. > >> > >> That's fine for contract situations. What about manufacturing for > >> sale to the public? Lawyers damn near wiped out the light > >> airplane industry in > >> this country...it took an act of Congress to get them > off > > > >explain to me how _lawyers_ did this. > > They passed the laws. They ran the courts. They argued > the 'theories' > used to reach decisions. They created and operated the > system in which it > happened. They can't escape blame as a group, though > individual lawyers > might make a case to be excused. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 23 01:21:28 2003 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 01:16:30 -0400 From: Carl Parker To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" , t_gimer@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Lawyers? (non-moto request) HAHAHAHA damn Tom...that some endurance flaming!!! AHHAHAHA Carlo ;^{p} From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 23 01:36:23 2003 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 01:31:28 -0400 From: Carl Parker To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" , robkeiser@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Amazing...bicycle helmets?? >Are you using a 1pc Roadcrafter? How well does it vent while moving? I'm >considering picking one up to facilitate easier and more frequent >commuting. My 2pc Joe Rocket setup leaves me pretty wrinkled when I get >to work. I"m using a two piece beacause I like being able to take off my jacket and cool with the bib/pants on instead of always having to remove the whole suit and store it somewhere. I can always also just zip the top and bottom together (which I have never done) to make for a pseudo1 piece. A definite plus for the two piece is that the pants have a zipper at the top of them and so it's a little less complicated to piss. I really appreciated this feature when I was peeing in various parks and pull offs from drinking alot of water, coffee, and tea. The ventilation on them is actually not too bad if you learn the tricks to your individual set up. For example, when I'm on my bike and I need to cool off a bit I can drop my cuffs below the grip and actually scoop air into the suit which - if you're in the right position - can go pretty much all around your upper body. The legs are still hot but you can always open the pocket access zipper but I find the flap that covers it constantly blows it shut so it's uesless. You can't really open up the inner zipper from the right leg cuz then a buncha material is exposed to bike parts. You can open the crotch down on the two piece to the middle of your thigh and that helps a bit sometimes. The interior of the suite will keep your clothes looking pretty good though I do have to admit. Big flat stiff manels with a nice sheer interior lining. Nice big zippers make zipping a relatively simple and easy process. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 23 01:43:57 2003 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 01:39:00 -0400 From: Carl Parker To: Carl Schelin , "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Amazing...bicycle helmets?? Dude, if you've got the room you could get one of those small floor spinning thingys and just turn your bike around. It's just a little disk that sits on the floor and you centerstand yer bike on it. That way you could leave every morning and feel like Bat Man...er' um I mean "EVIL BAT MAN!" Carloooh yeeeaaahhh ;) > I backed the bike out of the garage yesterday morning (slight hill to > the road) and was starting to sweat while sitting there waiting for her > to warm up. > > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 23 01:51:38 2003 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 01:46:42 -0400 From: Carl Parker To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: Riding without lights in Rock Creek Park >A couple of times on the straights, I turned off the light for a second just >to see what it would look like .. pitch black and frightening. Yeah wadn't that a rush?!?! :) >If it ever happens to you, go for the high-beam, and hope it's still >working. I guess this is a good reason to check that your high beam is >working from time to time. A cupl' driving lights wired independently from the main lamp switch does wonders. My headlight went out totally one night (which turned out to be a connection that shook loose) I rode all the way home on the driving lamps with very little to no problems. Get a couple of lamps going and a nice high beam and you can really light up some road at night. It makes night riding much less streessful and more enjoyable and makes you much more noticable to other drivers on the road esp. in those tree shaded country twisties. I fell much better having them on and I do think it makes a difference. It's 40-50bucks well spent if you ride alot. Carlo From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 23 02:42:15 2003 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 02:42:02 -0400 From: Dale Horstman To: Tom Gimer CC: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Lawyers? (non-moto request) Tom Gimer wrote: > > i'd like to respond to the latest drivel, but i've got my > hands full with an eight-day-old son to tend to, and some > things are considerably more important than others. Congrats, Tom. Gonna fit a sidecar on the bike now? :) Horkster -- Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark) Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX "My ambition in life is to Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth minimize my stress level." CM #001 NRA IBA COG '98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer '99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi '82 Suzuki GS850G - Neat old bike From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 23 07:26:48 2003 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 04:26:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Lawyers? (non-moto request) To: Sean Jordan , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Sean Jordan wrote: > Gimer wrote: > >but i've got my hands full with an eight-day-old son to > tend to > > Egads! Gimer has procreated! Surely the world never > seemed so bleak..... > > In all seriousness, congratulations! Out of curiosity, > what day was he born? thanks, sean baxter was born july 13 @ 7:33 p.m.... 6 lbs 15 oz., 20.5 inches __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 23 07:28:01 2003 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 04:27:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: RE: Lawyers? (non-moto request) To: "LindaT." , "Dc-Cycles \(Dc-Cycles\)" yes, linda.... mom is fine! thanks for asking! --- "LindaT." wrote: > Mazel Tov!! My God, Tom's a dad!! Woohoo. I assume mom > is fine as well? > > LindaT. > http://www.customtankbags.com > Now - TankBags for 1800 Wings > Springfield, VA (suburb of our nation's capital) > AMA IBA HSTA BMWBMW > 99 R1100RT Mr. Buzzy > 95 F3 Purple Haze > 00 KLR250 Super Sherpa Tenzing > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Gimer [mailto:t_gimer@XXXXXX] > Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 9:57 PM > To: Mike Bartman; dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Lawyers? (non-moto request) > > > i'd like to respond to the latest drivel, but i've got my > hands full with an eight-day-old son to tend to, and some > things are > considerably more important than others. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 23 07:29:49 2003 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 07:44:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Congrats to the Gimers! (was Re: Lawyers?) On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Tom Gimer wrote: > baxter was born july 13 @ 7:33 p.m.... > 6 lbs 15 oz., 20.5 inches Congrats to you and your family, Tom! I hope that mom and baby are doing well. Getting any sleep? ;-) ;-) -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 23 07:31:38 2003 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 04:31:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Lawyers? (non-moto request) To: Dale Horstman Cc: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" --- Dale Horstman wrote: > Tom Gimer wrote: > > > > i'd like to respond to the latest drivel, but i've got > my > > hands full with an eight-day-old son to tend to, and > some > > things are considerably more important than others. > > Congrats, Tom. Gonna fit a sidecar on the bike now? :) this guy will likely have his own 50cc dirtbike before i do anything silly like that! (i'll leave such a project to craig, who now has his own young boy (peyton) to deal with as well!) -- tg __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 23 07:33:04 2003 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 04:32:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Congrats to the Gimers! (was Re: Lawyers?) To: Wayne Edelen , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Wayne Edelen wrote: > On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Tom Gimer wrote: > > > baxter was born july 13 @ 7:33 p.m.... > > 6 lbs 15 oz., 20.5 inches > > Congrats to you and your family, Tom! I hope that mom > and baby are doing > well. > > Getting any sleep? ;-) ;-) yeah, actually.... i just got half an hour! ;) thanks, wayne __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 23 08:08:32 2003 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 05:08:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Jordan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: XM satellite radio review >It is a little annoying to have it cut in and out >in challenging riding areas out in the boondocks. If you'd stayed on Interstates like God intended, you wouldn't have had this problem... ;-) FWIW GPS receivers exhibit the same traits (obviously). I had mine (GPS) drop reception quite a few times on my trip in June whilst riding at the bottom of narrow canyons: http://michaelj.smugmug.com/gallery/12246/7/401792 Still - it's amazing how well this stuff does work - ain't technology wunnerful?? Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 23 08:40:20 2003 From: "Perry Coleman" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Lawyers? (non-moto request) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:40:12 -0400 Congratulations! Perry >From: Tom Gimer >To: Sean Jordan , dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: Lawyers? (non-moto request) >Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 04:26:39 -0700 (PDT) > >--- Sean Jordan wrote: > > Gimer wrote: > > >but i've got my hands full with an eight-day-old son to > > tend to > > > > Egads! Gimer has procreated! Surely the world never > > seemed so bleak..... > > > > In all seriousness, congratulations! Out of curiosity, > > what day was he born? > >thanks, sean > >baxter was born july 13 @ 7:33 p.m.... >6 lbs 15 oz., 20.5 inches > _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 23 09:08:27 2003 Reply-To: "Jon Strang" From: "Jon Strang" To: Subject: higher math Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:08:25 -0400 What part of 8 day old confused you, Sean? --jon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sean Jordan" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 10:32 PM Subject: Re: Lawyers? (non-moto request) > Gimer wrote: > >but i've got my hands full with an eight-day-old son to tend to > > Egads! Gimer has procreated! Surely the world never seemed so bleak..... > > In all seriousness, congratulations! Out of curiosity, what day was he born? > > -Sean Jordan > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 23 09:24:41 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Michael Jordan" , Subject: Re: XM satellite radio review Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:30:21 -0400 The receiver actually has a small memory buffer, which helps it overcome short losses of signal, but during the longer ones, it craps out. Canyon cliffs, dense foliage, and large buildings between you and the southern sky interrupt the signal. But still *way* better than FM for travelling purposes, with zero interruptions on the slab. XM has two satellites, about 22,000 miles up. One covering the east and the other the west. And it's a hometown product, coming to you live from Eckington Place, NE. Paul in DC ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Jordan > >It is a little annoying to have it cut in and out > >in challenging riding areas out in the boondocks. > > If you'd stayed on Interstates like God intended, you wouldn't have had this problem... ;-) > > FWIW GPS receivers exhibit the same traits (obviously). I had mine (GPS) drop reception quite a few times on my trip in June whilst riding at the bottom of narrow canyons: http://michaelj.smugmug.com/gallery/12246/7/401792 > > Still - it's amazing how well this stuff does work - ain't technology wunnerful?? > > Michael J. > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 23 09:38:44 2003 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'DCCycles'" Cc: "'frosty@XXXXXX'" Subject: Riding without lights in Rock Creek Park Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:41:49 -0400 Frosty Said, my XL600R's headlight went out as I was approaching a left. I was faced with an inky darkness where a turn was only moments before. I leaned in anyway as I turned on the high beam while thinking .. "what the Heck?" That high beam got me home For those who ride in the city during the day or any where at night: Install a pair of driving lights. 1. They improve your conspicuity during the day, dawn, dusk, and night. 2. They improve your lighting at night. 3. When a headlight filament or fuse blows -- you still have forward lights (A Good Thing). 4. In many cases (Permanent magnet alternators) running the additional 110 watts eases the load on your regulator and battery. Hellas, and PIAAs are super but pricey. Wal-Ms has many under $20. Auto Zones generally have $20 Pilot driving lights that are a great value (tape the seam to keep water out). Almost all of these use 55 watt H-3 bulbs (~$4 at WM or AZ) If the set doesn't come with a relay and fuse, get 'em at AZ or Radio Shack for ~$7 total. Pick up a toggle switch (~$1.50). There are many ways to mount lights but generally the easiest is to: Find a bolt on your bike. Get a strip of aluminum bar stock and drill a hole to fit the bolt. Bend the bar stock so the light will mount where it suits you. Saw, sand, polish, paint the bar stock as needed. Mount light, hook up wires. Toggle switch (in a film cassette housing) goes on your mirror stalk or bar within easy thumb reach (Another ) Rob Karped, "Wayne, In my experience, (two piece Roadcrafter couple years) the jacket does a decent job with venting (while moving, of course) but the pants are god awful hot. Of course it doesn't help much that mine are all black and a little snug, but some kind of creative venting would be much appreciated for the legs." Snap the snap at the bottom of the legs, then raise the leg zipper. That'll let in air -- preheated highway air -- but -- it's dry heat ya know. For me, the Roadcrafter is fine up to ~95 F (Then the highway way will be ~100F or more) while you're rolling. In DC traffic, you'll be stopped and soaking up the rays and engine heat. That's when I love my yellow Phoenix. I still soak up rays and engine heat when stopped -- but -- the slightest bit of rolling feels . . .so . . .good. Carl in Bethesda (on Digest so many hours behind -- but down with all bottom-feeding, scum-scukkin' lawyers! Naturally the lawyers on this list never go near scum -- except us biker scum.) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 23 09:57:54 2003 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 06:57:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: XM satellite radio review To: Paul Wilson , vfr@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX I had a similar set up on my x-country trip (no XM, just a CD)...bass booster ear phones with the Boosteroo. I found the sound very dissapointing. Just not nearly loud enough. --- Paul Wilson wrote: > I got my Delphi SkyFi XM satellite receiver unit > (with the "vehicle" kit) > just before my trip, and I've got a lot of > experience now with the unit and > thought you all might find it somewhat beneficial. > > I wired the thing up via my tankbag and used a > Boostaroo as an amplifier to > drive headphone speakers velcroed into my helmet > lining. I also got an > inline volume control from Radio Shack to adjust the > volume. That said, at > speed it needs to be turned up all the way to reach > audible levels. The > antenna mounts on a small bracket I fashioned that > attaches near the mirror > mount. The unit itself is velcroed to the map > pocket on my RKA bag. The > whole setup is contained in the bag, so all I need > to do is unhook the bag > and undo the trailer plug with the 12V supply in > order to carry the whole > business into a restaurant or motel room. > > Here's a photo of the setup. > > http://community.webshots.com/photo/82279429/82282959yPfcil > > Sound quality and reception is generally excellent. > It does cut out and > lose the satellite signal under heavy foliage or in > tight canyons, under > bridges, in narrow streets, under gas station > canopies, etc. Terrestrial > repeaters do help fill in the gaps in reception in > major cities. It worked > great all the way through Chicago, for instance, > even under umpty-ump > freeway overpasses. It is a little annoying to have > it cut in and out in > challenging riding areas out in the boondocks. I > found myself simply > turning it off sometimes, for that reason. > > Programming is excellent and wide-ranging: pop, > rock, jazz, country, folk, > talk radio, C-SPAN, news radio, Weather Channel, you > name it. Many of the > channels are commercial-free. Listening to some of > the classical and jazz > channels can be difficult when on the move. Inside > the helmet, with > earplugs and the wind noise, it's not exactly an > audiophile environment. > Some of the nuance, crispness and dynamic range of > the broadcast gets lost. > You realize what's missing when you come to a stop. > Still, not bad for a > de-constructed set of $8 headphones. Perhaps with a > second Boostaroo I > could get a little more oomph from the setup. The > receiver unit controls > are very easy to manipulate, even with gloves. It > is not really designed > for outdoor use, however, and needs a rain cover for > foul weather. It was > great having this little companion for the long days > (and nights) in the > saddle. > > I think the XM reciever will be a constant companion > on trips of any length > from now on. Works great around the house too, > although that mean I have to > negotiate with my wife for use of the unit. :-) > > One word of warning: make sure you engage the lock > the holds the receiver > into the vehicle cradle. I didn't engage it once > and the unit went flying > off the bike on a rough dirt road in New Mexico. It > survived with a few > scratches. > > Paul in DC, 95 VFR > > > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 23 10:07:49 2003 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 07:07:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Lawyers? (non-moto request) To: Tom Gimer , Mike Bartman , "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Why would you even check the list with a newborn? congrats though --- Tom Gimer wrote: > i'd like to respond to the latest drivel, but i've > got my > hands full with an eight-day-old son to tend to, and > some > things are considerably more important than others. > > i'll get to this in turn. > > > --- Mike Bartman wrote: > > At 07:58 PM 7/21/03 -0700, Tom Gimer wrote: > > >--- Mike Bartman wrote: > > >> At 02:17 PM 7/21/03 -0700, Tom Gimer wrote: > > >> >no need to suggest "fixes". everyone > listening to > > this > > >> >crap has the ability to avoid litigation by > including > > in > > >> >their contracts a provision requiring > mediation, > > >> >arbitration, etc. rather than litigation. > > >> > > >> That's fine for contract situations. What > about > > >> manufacturing for sale to > > >> the public? Lawyers damn near wiped out the > light > > >> airplane industry in > > >> this country...it took an act of Congress to > get them > > off > > > > > >explain to me how _lawyers_ did this. > > > > They passed the laws. They ran the courts. They > argued > > the 'theories' > > used to reach decisions. They created and > operated the > > system in which it > > happened. They can't escape blame as a group, > though > > individual lawyers > > might make a case to be excused. > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site > design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 23 10:55:22 2003 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 07:55:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Lawyers? (non-moto request) To: Mark Kitchell , Mike Bartman , "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" --- Mark Kitchell wrote: > Why would you even check the list with a newborn? to hear your lovely voice, of course. let's just wait and see whether (if you breed) you are able to devote 100% of your waking time tending to your child. you have to take some time for yourself (for both work and pleasure).... but the odds are you won't have enough time to respond immediately to a 22k byte post. ;) > congrats though th.... th.... thank you (i think) > --- Tom Gimer wrote: > > i'd like to respond to the latest drivel, but i've > > got my > > hands full with an eight-day-old son to tend to, and > > some > > things are considerably more important than others. > > > > i'll get to this in turn. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 23 11:00:48 2003 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:00:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Lawyers? (non-moto request) To: Tom Gimer , Mike Bartman , "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" i meant the congrats actually. I can barely read this list sometimes myself. I would think it would be low on the entertainment scale, thats all. --- Tom Gimer wrote: > --- Mark Kitchell wrote: > > Why would you even check the list with a newborn? > > to hear your lovely voice, of course. let's just > wait and > see whether (if you breed) you are able to devote > 100% of > your waking time tending to your child. you have to > take > some time for yourself (for both work and > pleasure).... but > the odds are you won't have enough time to respond > immediately to a 22k byte post. ;) > > > > congrats though > > th.... th.... thank you (i think) > > > > > --- Tom Gimer wrote: > > > i'd like to respond to the latest drivel, but > i've > > > got my > > > hands full with an eight-day-old son to tend to, > and > > > some > > > things are considerably more important than > others. > > > > > > i'll get to this in turn. > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site > design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 23 12:20:42 2003 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 12:19:43 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: markkitchell@XXXXXX, pawilson@XXXXXX, vfr@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: XM satellite radio review You should look into the Koss earphones. They have a set that are just like foam earplugs and go into your ear. I have a RioSport MP3/FM radio that I use during trips on the bike. I put the earplugs in, don helmet and go. I have never had to have the volume up over half way. No Boosteroo required. Full blast is too loud. Scooter In a message dated 7/23/2003 8:57:51 AM Eastern Standard Time, markkitchell@XXXXXX writes: > > > I had a similar set up on my x-country trip (no XM, > just a CD)...bass booster ear phones with the > Boosteroo. I found the sound very dissapointing. > Just not nearly loud enough. > > > --- Paul Wilson wrote: > > I got my Delphi SkyFi XM satellite receiver unit > > (with the "vehicle" kit) > > just before my trip, and I've got a lot of > > experience now with the unit and > > thought you all might find it somewhat beneficial. > > > > I wired the thing up via my tankbag and used a > > Boostaroo as an amplifier to > > drive headphone speakers velcroed into my helmet > > lining. I also got an > > inline volume control from Radio Shack to adjust the > > volume. That said, at > > speed it needs to be turned up all the way to reach > > audible levels. The > > antenna mounts on a small bracket I fashioned that > > attaches near the mirror > > mount. The unit itself is velcroed to the map > > pocket on my RKA bag. The > > whole setup is contained in the bag, so all I need > > to do is unhook the bag > > and undo the trailer plug with the 12V supply in > > order to carry the whole > > business into a restaurant or motel room. > > > > Here's a photo of the setup. > > > > > http://community.webshots.com/photo/82279429/82282959yPfcil > > > > Sound quality and reception is generally excellent. > > It does cut out and > > lose the satellite signal under heavy foliage or in > > tight canyons, under > > bridges, in narrow streets, under gas station > > canopies, etc. Terrestrial > > repeaters do help fill in the gaps in reception in > > major cities. It worked > > great all the way through Chicago, for instance, > > even under umpty-ump > > freeway overpasses. It is a little annoying to have > > it cut in and out in > > challenging riding areas out in the boondocks. I > > found myself simply > > turning it off sometimes, for that reason. > > > > Programming is excellent and wide-ranging: pop, > > rock, jazz, country, folk, > > talk radio, C-SPAN, news radio, Weather Channel, you > > name it. Many of the > > channels are commercial-free. Listening to some of > > the classical and jazz > > channels can be difficult when on the move. Inside > > the helmet, with > > earplugs and the wind noise, it's not exactly an > > audiophile environment. > > Some of the nuance, crispness and dynamic range of > > the broadcast gets lost. > > You realize what's missing when you come to a stop. > > Still, not bad for a > > de-constructed set of $8 headphones. Perhaps with a > > second Boostaroo I > > could get a little more oomph from the setup. The > > receiver unit controls > > are very easy to manipulate, even with gloves. It > > is not really designed > > for outdoor use, however, and needs a rain cover for > > foul weather. It was > > great having this little companion for the long days > > (and nights) in the > > saddle. > > > > I think the XM reciever will be a constant companion > > on trips of any length > > from now on. Works great around the house too, > > although that mean I have to > > negotiate with my wife for use of the unit. :-) > > > > One word of warning: make sure you engage the lock > > the holds the receiver > > into the vehicle cradle. I didn't engage it once > > and the unit went flying > > off the bike on a rough dirt road in New Mexico. It > > survived with a few > > scratches. > > > > Paul in DC, 95 VFR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 23 12:31:26 2003 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 11:31:23 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Sean Jordan Subject: Re: Lawyers? (non-moto request) Gimer wrote: >this guy will likely have his own 50cc dirtbike before i do >anything silly like that I know I've posted this here before, but this it seems appropriate in light of recent events... http://www.minimotoclub.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=411 Maybe there will be a Gimer running in MotoGP in 2020? ;) -Sean Jordan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 23 12:40:40 2003 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 11:40:17 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Sean Jordan Subject: Funny moto video http://www.rsxworld.com/gallery/data/3009/6155crashzukimpg.mpg D'oh! Time for the MSF class..... -Sean Jordan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 23 12:41:42 2003 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 11:41:41 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Sean Jordan Subject: Baby Gimer was Re: Lawyers? Gimer wrote: >baxter was born july 13 @ 7:33 p.m.... Good week for birthdays..... July 13th - Baxter Gimer July 14th - Tommy Hayden July 15th - Yours Truly -Sean Jordan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 23 12:49:57 2003 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 12:49:38 -0400 From: Dale Horstman To: Tom Gimer CC: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Lawyers? (non-moto request) Tom Gimer wrote: > > --- Dale Horstman wrote: > > Tom Gimer wrote: > > > > > > i'd like to respond to the latest drivel, but i've got > > my > > > hands full with an eight-day-old son to tend to, and > > some > > > things are considerably more important than others. > > > > Congrats, Tom. Gonna fit a sidecar on the bike now? :) > > this guy will likely have his own 50cc dirtbike before i do > anything silly like that! Well, Yamaha use to make (maybe still does?) a 50cc SHAFT DRIVE dirt bike - it's best to start early and bring the youngster up right from the get go. :) Besides, after changing all those diapers, last thing a poor dad needs to do is change the kids chains and sprockets every season, right? :) :) :) Seriously, good news, I'm happy for ya. Kids are cool. Hork -- Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark) Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX "My ambition in life is to Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth minimize my stress level." CM #001 NRA IBA COG '98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer '99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi '82 Suzuki GS850G - Neat old bike From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 23 13:00:48 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Sean Jordan , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Funny moto video Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 12:01:43 -0500 Doh, reminds me of when I hit a street sign on my hawk. I had passed the MSF but I took a wide turn. Worst part was the sign said "Slow, School zone." Rob On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 11:40:17 -0500, Sean Jordan wrote > http://www.rsxworld.com/gallery/data/3009/6155crashzukimpg.mpg > > D'oh! Time for the MSF class..... > > -Sean Jordan -- Rob Sharp SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 23 13:15:20 2003 From: pam@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Bike for Sale: 1986 Suzuki Savage 650 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:15:12 -0400 Hi, Forgive me if this isn't the right place to post this. I'm new to the list. I have an '86 Savage 650 that needs a new home. It's got 11k miles on it and needs some love. It was supposed to have been attended to by a relative while I lived in Atlanta for couple of years, but they ignored it. Sooo... I'm asking for best offer. I'll clean it up, and it has a new battery but that's it. How's that for honesty? I can be reached at: 703.904.9874 (home) or respond to this email address. Thanks. Pam Sapyta From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 23 13:34:08 2003 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:34:03 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Experienced Cisco engineer question (No Moto) If any experienced Cisco guys have a sec to email me back for a tech question, I would appreciate it. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they would never expect it -- Jack Handey From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 23 13:42:48 2003 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:42:45 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Elkins - list member? On a road I ride frequently, left turn accidents hit close to home. http://www.manassasjm.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=MJM%2FMGArticle%2FWPN_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1031770159119&path=!frontpage Police: Deaths caused when motorcycle hit van By DANIEL DREW ddrew@XXXXXX Tuesday, July 22, 2003 Robert Craig Elkins, 46, and his 17-year-old stepdaughter Jessica Ashley Dudley, of Triangle and Bealeton, respectively, died in a Sunday crash on Vint Hill Road in Fauquier County, when a van made a left turn in front of them, state police said Tuesday. Royce Kim Rollins, 42, turned left onto Va. 652 at about 25 mph, in front of the 2000 Harley-Davidson, which was traveling at the 55 mph limit, said Sgt. Gary Settle, spokesman for state police division two. The Harley hit the van's front right quarter section near the fender; Elkins and Dudley were thrown from the Harley into the side of the van. They were both wearing helmets. Charges are pending until the investigation is over, Settle said. State police reconstructed the accident scene and will seek advice from the Fauquier County Commonwealth's Attorney before filing any charges, Settle said. A family friend described Elkins Monday as a motorcycle lover and said Dudley was a rising basketball and track star at Liberty High School. Elkins worked as an electrical engineer in Arlington. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they would never expect it -- Jack Handey From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 23 14:33:50 2003 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 14:30:11 -0400 To: Sean Jordan , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Funny moto video At 11:40 AM 7/23/03 -0500, Sean Jordan wrote: >http://www.rsxworld.com/gallery/data/3009/6155crashzukimpg.mpg > >D'oh! Time for the MSF class..... > >-Sean Jordan You could use that one to play "can you find all the mistakes?" I'm not sure where to start... ;^) -- Mike **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 23 14:45:24 2003 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 14:46:13 -0400 To: Troutman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Elkins - list member? At 01:42 PM 7/23/03 -0400, Troutman wrote: >On a road I ride frequently, left turn accidents hit close to home. > >http://www.manassasjm.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=MJM%2FMGArticle%2FWPN_ BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1031770159119&path=!frontpage > >Police: Deaths caused when motorcycle hit van A pretty misleading headline for a tragic accident, though probably an accurate quote. The deaths resulted from hitting the van, but they were caused by the van making an illegal turn (failure to yield) and hitting the bike with it's right front fender. Sounds like the bike was doing everything properly...except maybe anticipating an idiot van driver. A friend who taught me to ride his enduro in college always claimed to be a "candy-ass biker". He was never agressive, never in a hurry and rode with the mindset that said that things with four wheels weren't only stupid, they were actively hostile. He always assumed that they would try hard to hit him, and it was his job to make sure that that wasn't possible. If he had to yeild in places where the law said he had right of way, so be it. He never had an accident so far as I know (at least not on the street...he rode dirt too, and I'm sure he wiped out more than once there ;^). I've ridden with that same idea, and so far nothing has managed to hit me either, but it's not over yet... My friend died from a massive coronary at age 28 while studying for his final semester in medical school. You can't anticipate everything I guess. My condolances to anyone who knew the two victims of this incident or their friends and family. -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 23 15:10:40 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 15:10:33 EDT Subject: Re: Elkins - list member? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/23/2003 2:45:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, omni@XXXXXX writes: > rode with > the mindset that said that things with four wheels weren't only stupid, > they were actively hostile. He always assumed that they would try hard to > hit him, There are enough loonies out there to make that statement literally true and the riding style absolutely necessary. Ride long enough and you _will_literally_ be attacked by a mental case in a cage. You _must_ assume everyone is out to get you because some are. That is my stereo type, they are _all_ nuts. Obviously those extra wheels are the cause and should be outlawed. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 23 15:22:49 2003 Reply-To: "Jon Strang" From: "Jon Strang" To: Subject: Re: Elkins - list member? Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 15:22:26 -0400 How about: "Van Driver Slays Father and Daughter" A bit more accurate than their headline. "Motorycle hit van" my ass. F-ing passive-voiced "Deaths caused" mealy-mouthed reporter. --jon > Police: Deaths caused when motorcycle hit van > > By DANIEL DREW > ddrew@XXXXXX > Tuesday, July 22, 2003 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 23 15:52:26 2003 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 15:53:23 -0400 To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Elkins - list member? At 03:10 PM 7/23/03 EDT, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: >In a message dated 7/23/2003 2:45:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >omni@XXXXXX writes: > >> rode with >> the mindset that said that things with four wheels weren't only stupid, >> they were actively hostile. He always assumed that they would try hard to >> hit him, > >There are enough loonies out there to make that statement literally true and >the riding style absolutely necessary. Ride long enough and you >_will_literally_ be attacked by a mental case in a cage. You _must_ assume >everyone is out to get you because some are. Whether it's true or not, it is safest to assume it is. So far I've only had problems with stupidity and carelessness (or blindness?), not hostile intent...and that riding style has kept me out of trouble...along with being on the right bike at the time. For instance, I got forced off the road once when a car pulled out in front of me. Since I was *expecting* her to do that, when she did it I wasn't surprised, and had a plan ready...swerve right off the road where there was still some room. It was a slow road, so I was only doing about 30 mph, but it was an 8" drop off the pavement onto loose gravel followed by grass and sand. Since I was on my XT-550 at the time, it was almost a non-event, and once there was some space, I curved back onto the pavement, with the horn still blaring at her. She looked startled, so I'm almost certain she hadn't seen me. That all-white bike with the six and a half foot tall guy in the black leather jacket and white full-face helmet with the glowing headlight must have blended into the green background pretty well at a range of 50'...perhaps the Army should consider that for their new camouflage scheme? >That is my stereo type, they are _all_ nuts. Obviously those extra wheels are >the cause and should be outlawed. I don't know if I want to see a 2-wheeled SUV or delivery truck...or the guy who could hold one up at a stop light! :^) -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 23 17:32:06 2003 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:31:50 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: eternity23@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Baby Gimer was Re: Lawyers? Good month for birthdays actually. My father and his twin brother - July 3 Me - July 7 My grandfather - July 12 My aunt and I figured up one day that I have a relative born every single day in July. I guess there was nothing better to do on those cold September/October nights in Pennsylvania. ;-) And people wonder why I say I'm related to half the county on one side of the family and the other half of the county on the other side of the family. LOL Scooter (and you might be a redneck if.....) In a message dated 7/23/2003 11:41:41 AM Eastern Standard Time, eternity23@XXXXXX writes: > > > Gimer wrote: > > >baxter was born july 13 @ 7:33 p.m.... > > Good week for birthdays..... > > July 13th - Baxter Gimer > July 14th - Tommy Hayden > July 15th - Yours Truly > > -Sean Jordan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Jul 23 23:22:23 2003 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 23:17:26 -0400 From: Carl Parker To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" , Carl.Custer@XXXXXX Subject: re:Riding without lights in Rock Creek Park >Wal-Ms has many under $20. >Auto Zones generally have $20 Pilot driving lights that are a great value >(tape the seam to keep water out). >Almost all of these use 55 watt H-3 bulbs (~$4 at WM or AZ) >If the set doesn't come with a relay and fuse, get 'em at AZ or Radio Shack >for ~$7 total. Pick up a toggle switch (~$1.50). Carl man are you thinkin' what I'm thinkin! I know you are... :) I'm thinking we got a recipe for home made Maggot driving lamp gumbo: 2 Stainless dog dishes 2 Bulb/base assemblies 2 Different kinds of primary wire 1 Heavy duty On/Off switch (10 amp is good) to negate then need for a relay. 2 Film canisters - Cuz' you gotta use film cannisters 1 Roll of duct-tape 2 Wire coat hangers 2 lamp gels of any color (clear, amber, red, yellow, green, blue, whatever you want) First we go to Petsmart and buy two of those stainless steel polished dog/cat water dishes to serve as the reflectors. Imagine the luxury of being able to choose the size of your reflectors! Then we head over to Autozone to buy the bulbs and bases. We could buy a wiring kit here for 10 bucks but pashaw! There's gotta be a Radio Shack close by so lets go grab ourselves some switches, primary wire, and heat shrink tubing. Drill a hole in the back of the stainless bowls large enough to accept the bulb bases and wiring. But wait..how do we keep water from fouling up our precious wiring back there?!?! Why film canisters of course! Take two old film canisters and punch small holes in the bottom, run the wires out, then seal with silicone. Glue the film canisters to the back of bowls with autogoop then do the same with the gels only reinforce it with layers of high bond duct tape. rig up a simple switched wiring kit, mount the switch to the bike, and hang the dog bowls..uh I mean franken-driving-lamps by two wire coat hanger contraption and voila!!! Add a notch somewhere and you've got the Deeeeelux gumbo! ;) Yaaahaw! Carlo From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 08:15:16 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 08:15:01 EDT Subject: Re: Elkins - list member? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/23/2003 3:52:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, omni@XXXXXX writes: > Whether it's true or not, it is safest to assume it is. I have literally been attacked several times in the near 500,000mi. I have under my belt. And I have known others who have been attacked. Lord knows how many accidents are caused by the deliberate attack of some lunatic who drives away and is then reported as a hit and run. Or caused by a lunatic who simply says "I did not see him" and gets away with it. _We_stand_out,_ and anyone who stands out becomes a target for the insane. I am not trying to create paranoia, we should, and if we have been riding for any length of time, do, ride as though "they" were out to get us. "It is not paranoia if they really are trying to get you." John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 09:07:44 2003 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 06:07:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Lawyers? (non-moto request) To: Mark Kitchell , Mike Bartman , "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" thanks, mark. i have my work email forwarded to this yahoo account, and when i use my home office i monitor it using yahoo messenger.... seeing the word "lawyers" in the subject line of a few incoming messages prompted me to check this folder. --- Mark Kitchell wrote: > i meant the congrats actually. > > I can barely read this list sometimes myself. I would > think it would be low on the entertainment scale, > thats all. > > > --- Tom Gimer wrote: > > --- Mark Kitchell wrote: > > > Why would you even check the list with a newborn? > > > > to hear your lovely voice, of course. let's just > > wait and > > see whether (if you breed) you are able to devote > > 100% of > > your waking time tending to your child. you have to > > take > > some time for yourself (for both work and > > pleasure).... but > > the odds are you won't have enough time to respond > > immediately to a 22k byte post. ;) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 09:09:48 2003 From: "Rob Keiser" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: No-Moto-Content....FS: Rhode Gear Bike Rack Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 08:57:44 -0400 Since it won't fit on my P5, I have the bike rack I used on my Integra for sale. $35 It's a Rhode Gear Super Shuttle, in great shape, holds two bikes, trunk mount should fit most sedans and hatchbacks, still have the box. Contact me off-list if interested. Rob '98 VFR800 '02 P5 (now with a 2 rail Thule system) _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 09:12:30 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: , Subject: Helmet holder, or One of life's little conundrums solved Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 09:18:58 -0400 So you're riding solo and pull up to some skanky gas station and need to take a leak. For whatever reason, I've never felt comfortable leaving the helmet unattended and unlocked on the bike. I don't want to go through the hassle of pulling out my cable lock. And there rarely *clean* places to put a helmet in the average men's room. So, I was at the sporting goods store in Buffalo, Wyo., and I notice the carabiners, snap rings with the spring release. Perfect, I thought. I wear that on the waist cinch belt of my Motoport jacket, pass the D-rings of the strap onto the carabiner and hook the helmet to my jacket while "taking care of business" with both hands free. Works great. Paul in DC, 95 VFR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 09:17:30 2003 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 09:17:23 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Elkins - list member? Don't know whether it was this list or another I'm on but, this is a good fictional story about people out to get you. Although it's about bicycles and not motorcycles, it's still good. :-) http://danenet.wicip.org/bcp/spike.html Scooter In a message dated 7/24/2003 7:15:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, PenguinBiker writes: > > > In a message dated 7/23/2003 3:52:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > omni@XXXXXX writes: > > > Whether it's true or not, it is safest to assume it is. > > I have literally been attacked several times in the near 500,000mi. I have > under my belt. And I have known others who have been attacked. Lord knows how > many accidents are caused by the deliberate attack of some lunatic who drives > away and is then reported as a hit and run. Or caused by a lunatic who simply > says "I did not see him" and gets away with it. _We_stand_out,_ and anyone who > stands out becomes a target for the insane. > I am not trying to create paranoia, we should, and if we have been riding for > any length of time, do, ride as though "they" were out to > get us. > "It is not paranoia if they really are trying to get you." > > > John Walters (Long John) > PenguinBiker@XXXXXX > Up near DC > > > Honda ST1100X Pan European > BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles > Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 09:49:04 2003 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 09:48:56 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Elkins - list member? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Scooter reminded us of: >Don't know whether it was this list or another I'm on but, >this is a good fictional story about people out to get you. >Although it's about bicycles and not motorcycles, it's still >good. :-) > >http://danenet.wicip.org/bcp/spike.html > [Dave] 2 magazines aren't enough to account for the 1200 rounds / minute cyclic rate of the Mac 10, and after 3 bursts, he's only got a couple shots left in the mag. That's how I know he didn't smoke both the dobermans with 1 burst ;-) Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 10:38:17 2003 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:32:30 -0400 To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" From: Mike Bartman Subject: re:Riding without lights in Rock Creek Park At 11:17 PM 7/23/03 -0400, Carl Parker wrote: >Drill a hole in the back of the stainless bowls large enough to accept >the bulb bases and wiring. But wait..how do we keep water from fouling >up our precious wiring back there?!?! Why film canisters of course! >Take two old film canisters and punch small holes in the bottom, run the >wires out, then seal with silicone. Glue the film canisters to the back >of bowls with autogoop then do the same with the gels only reinforce it >with layers of high bond duct tape. > >rig up a simple switched wiring kit, mount the switch to the bike, and >hang the dog bowls..uh I mean franken-driving-lamps by two wire coat >hanger contraption and voila!!! Add a notch somewhere and you've got >the Deeeeelux gumbo! ;) If you drill a small hole in the back of the dog dish reflector, up on top somewhere, you will have an "idiot light" to tell you when your bulb has burned out too! :^) -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 10:38:17 2003 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:38:03 -0400 To: From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Helmet holder, or One of life's little conundrums solved At 09:18 AM 7/24/03 -0400, Paul Wilson wrote: >So you're riding solo and pull up to some skanky gas station and need to >take a leak. For whatever reason, I've never felt comfortable leaving the >helmet unattended and unlocked on the bike. I don't want to go through the >hassle of pulling out my cable lock. And there rarely *clean* places to put >a helmet in the average men's room. So, I was at the sporting goods store >in Buffalo, Wyo., and I notice the carabiners, snap rings with the spring >release. Perfect, I thought. I wear that on the waist cinch belt of my >Motoport jacket, pass the D-rings of the strap onto the carabiner and hook >the helmet to my jacket while "taking care of business" with both hands >free. Works great. Have to remember that. Not all bikes have nice built-in helmet locks like my old Honda did. It had one just under the seat, that used the ignition key to open. Just turn the key, hang the D-rings, and turn the key back...locked. With a full-face helmet you had to open the face shield to reach the D-rings and lock...it snugged the helmet against the bike pretty well. -- Mike **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 10:38:17 2003 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:33:58 -0400 To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Elkins - list member? At 08:15 AM 7/24/03 EDT, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: >"It is not paranoia if they really are trying to get you." "Even paranoids have enemies." -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 10:54:29 2003 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 07:54:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Larry Larson Subject: Re: Helmet holder, or One of life's little conundrums solved To: Paul Wilson , vfr@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Paul Wilson wrote: > So you're riding solo and pull up to some skanky gas > station and need to > take a leak. .... while "taking care of business" > with both hands free. Works great. Of course you could just leave it on your head (the big one), but then you probably wouldn't be able to look down far enough to hit the little battleship... -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 11:08:04 2003 Subject: Re: Helmet holder, or One of life's little conundrums solved From: Carl Schelin To: Paul Wilson Cc: vfr@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 24 Jul 2003 11:03:45 -0400 On Thu, 2003-07-24 at 09:18, Paul Wilson wrote: > So you're riding solo and pull up to some skanky gas station and need to > take a leak. For whatever reason, I've never felt comfortable leaving the > helmet unattended and unlocked on the bike. I don't want to go through the > hassle of pulling out my cable lock. And there rarely *clean* places to put > a helmet in the average men's room. So, I was at the sporting goods store > in Buffalo, Wyo., and I notice the carabiners, snap rings with the spring > release. Perfect, I thought. I wear that on the waist cinch belt of my > Motoport jacket, pass the D-rings of the strap onto the carabiner and hook > the helmet to my jacket while "taking care of business" with both hands > free. Works great. > The problem is the helmet bounces around and possibly hits the stall wall, certainly not the cleanest place (I've seen people who lean into the urinal totally covering the opening and one arm on the wall; I'd have to take a shower and wash my clothes after that). I'd have to hook the helmet to the middle of my back for me to think it was secure enough. I just put the helmet on my head. If it's the half-helm, it's just like a hat, no biggie. The full face sits on my head like a hat and again, no problem; well I sometimes have to duck to get into the bathroom :-) > Paul in DC, 95 VFR > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 11:10:17 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Larry Larson" , Subject: Re: Helmet holder, or One of life's little conundrums solved Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:16:09 -0400 I prefer not to wear my helmet in gas stations and mini-marts (stop'n'robs). I think it's a little rude to the staff and other customers. Not to mention they may think your intending to help yourself to the contents of the cash register. Paul in DC ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry Larson > --- Paul Wilson wrote: > > So you're riding solo and pull up to some skanky gas > > station and need to > > take a leak. .... while "taking care of business" > > with both hands free. Works great. > > Of course you could just leave it on your head (the big > one), but then you probably wouldn't be able to look down > far enough to hit the little battleship... > > -- Larry From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 11:13:41 2003 Subject: FS: 95 Suzuki GSXR From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 24 Jul 2003 11:09:27 -0400 My step-daughter's boyfriend is selling his bike. This is all I know about the bike. He has it stored at his grandma's house so the info is from his memory. Feel free to contact me and I'll pass you along. 1995 Suzuki GSXR 14,000-15,000 miles New paint (the changeable dark blue to green color) He says it needs a tune-up and probably a new chain. He has the title and he's asking $4,000. I've instructed him to get more precise info and a few pictures. Let me know if there's something else you want to know. Later, Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 11:15:11 2003 Subject: Lost helmet From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 24 Jul 2003 11:10:56 -0400 On my way in this morning I spied a red full-face on the right shoulder of the 95 HOV lanes at the onramp prior to Newington. I didn't see any scratches on it, but I only saw the left side as I went by. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 11:35:23 2003 Subject: Re: Elkins - list member? From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 24 Jul 2003 11:31:08 -0400 On Wed, 2003-07-23 at 15:53, Mike Bartman wrote: > At 03:10 PM 7/23/03 EDT, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > > > >There are enough loonies out there to make that statement literally true and > >the riding style absolutely necessary. Ride long enough and you > >_will_literally_ be attacked by a mental case in a cage. You _must_ assume > >everyone is out to get you because some are. > > Whether it's true or not, it is safest to assume it is. > A friend once told me he was heading south on Rt 1 by Ft Belvoir when a lady in a car in the right lane looked over at him and moved over. He hit the gas and at the next light he got off the bike, walked back and put the boots to her doors. At the time, he said he still saw the car in Alexandria from time to time. I've had two incidents late at night on the beltway near Springfield where someone ran into the side of my car on purpose and one down in F'burg where someone slammed on the brakes in the left lane causing me to hit the back of his car, after they had thrown two bottles of beer at the car (one on the windshield and one from the side that hit the center post). I had someone in a van decide to make a right turn when my car was in the right lane and then complain that I was in their lane. > So far I've only had problems with stupidity and carelessness (or > blindness?), not hostile intent...and that riding style has kept me out of > trouble...along with being on the right bike at the time. > > For instance, I got forced off the road once when a car pulled out in front > of me. Since I was *expecting* her to do that, when she did it I wasn't > surprised, and had a plan ready...swerve right off the road where there was > still some room. It was a slow road, so I was only doing about 30 mph, but > it was an 8" drop off the pavement onto loose gravel followed by grass and > sand. Since I was on my XT-550 at the time, it was almost a non-event, and > once there was some space, I curved back onto the pavement, with the horn > still blaring at her. > > She looked startled, so I'm almost certain she hadn't seen me. That > all-white bike with the six and a half foot tall guy in the black leather > jacket and white full-face helmet with the glowing headlight must have > blended into the green background pretty well at a range of 50'...perhaps > the Army should consider that for their new camouflage scheme? > On my CB360 (blue with a black Vetter) back in '76 or so I was on the road that ran next to BOQ in Ft Meade when I saw someone signalling for a left turn. He cut me off big time but I was ready. I hit the brakes and horn and then turned around at the next road, came back and yelled at him in the BOQ parking lot. On my Kawasaki (black with a black Vetter) while in the Safeway parking lot in Manassas I saw someone at the middle lane and planned on him making a right in front of me. Sure enough. I beeped at him and went around, put the kickstand down and came back to yell at him. On the same bike coming north on Rt 1 by M&M Auto (the DOT lot across the street) some guy in a pickup pulled out in front of me, stopped in the left lane crossways (he was making a left). I saw him looking to the right, made a few calculations and tried to go behind him. I failed and hit his rear wheel well going over the top and landing in the right lane. I spent a week in the hospital for that one. Two years ago I had someone in front of DOT pull out making a U-Turn from a parking spot. I killed the bike stopping and hopped off to yell at him. "I didn't see you." and drove off. This was on the FLSTC with a windshield and spotlights on. On the same bike, a van made a left turn in front of me. I beeped, turned around and yelled at him, again "I didn't see you". > >That is my stereo type, they are _all_ nuts. Obviously those extra wheels > are > >the cause and should be outlawed. > > I don't know if I want to see a 2-wheeled SUV or delivery truck...or the > guy who could hold one up at a stop light! :^) > Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you. > -- Mike Bartman Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 11:37:02 2003 Subject: Re: Helmet holder, or One of life's little conundrums solved From: Carl Schelin To: Paul Wilson Cc: Larry Larson , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 24 Jul 2003 11:32:48 -0400 On Thu, 2003-07-24 at 11:16, Paul Wilson wrote: > I prefer not to wear my helmet in gas stations and mini-marts (stop'n'robs). > I think it's a little rude to the staff and other customers. Not to mention > they may think your intending to help yourself to the contents of the cash > register. > Actually I put the full face on and just pull the chin guard down to my forehead, a rather tight fit but it keeps my face exposed. > Paul in DC > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 11:46:20 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:46:06 EDT Subject: Greedy bast*#ds To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX FYI The state of VA has changed the rules for the "personal property tax" commonly referred to as the car tax. Keep in mind that I have moved out of VA twice now once under the old rules, once under the new. It used to be that you owed the car tax until you moved out of the state. Provide some sort of proof that you had moved, a new lease, whatever and from that date you owed no more tax. That was "reasonable" you had property in the state, it could be taxed. But the rules have changed. Now you owe the tax until you re-register your vehicle in the new state. _In other words the state of VA is taxing property that is not in VA????_ I have no idea how they are getting away with this, but they are. NOTE: This is not a road use tax, not a registration tax, it is simply a property tax (or presented that way) as I see it VA might as well be taxing my house in MD. Also note: I do not care if you think this is fair or not, I think it is theft. The point is that if you do not want to "give" VA any extra money for the damn car tax you need to re-register your bikes, cars, etc. asap. on leaving VA. If you like the car tax then delay re-registration. I have no more to say on the topic. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 11:51:36 2003 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:47:23 -0400 From: "Steven C. Di Pietro" CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Helmet holder, or One of life's little conundrums solved X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at pop015.verizon.net from [141.157.66.208] at Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:51:25 -0500 >On Thu, 2003-07-24 at 09:18, Paul Wilson wrote: > > >>So you're riding solo and pull up to some skanky gas station and need to >>take a leak. >> Paul, If there isn't a hook on the back of the stall door, open the face shield and slip you arm, the one your not using, through the chin bar. Wee away. Steven C. Di Pietro Interim National Director The Suzuki Owners Club -USA 16 W. Jeffrey Street Baltimore Md. 21225-1713 http://www.soc-usa.org 1996 Suzuki Katana 600 2001 Suzuki Marauder 800 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 11:53:48 2003 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:49:33 -0400 From: "Steven C. Di Pietro" To: Carl Schelin CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: FS: 95 Suzuki GSXR X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out004.verizon.net from [141.157.66.208] at Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:53:35 -0500 Carl Schelin wrote: >My step-daughter's boyfriend is selling his bike. > Carl, Get me the rest of the info, and I can pass it along to all the Suzuki lists I'm on. Steven C. Di Pietro Interim National Director The Suzuki Owners Club -USA 16 W. Jeffrey Street Baltimore Md. 21225-1713 http://www.soc-usa.org 1996 Suzuki Katana 600 2001 Suzuki Marauder 800 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 11:54:18 2003 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 08:54:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Greedy bast*#ds To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Virginia does suck in that regard. Everyone here rags on DC non-stop, but both MD and VA are turning into (financial) jokes as well. I refused to pay the car tax for when I was no longer in VA. Well, that did not work. There is something called an account lien, meaning about six months after I refused to pay, they took it out of one of my bank accounts. The other may Virginia (and other states I am sure) is a total shit state is that they make you pay state income takes even though you live in another country. My parents lived overseas for 8 years (paying federal taxes are required) but were eventually sued by Va. for state income taxes. We did not live in the state, used no resources, yet........ --- PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > FYI The state of VA has changed the rules for the > "personal property tax" > commonly referred to as the car tax. Keep in mind > that I have moved out of VA > twice now once under the old rules, once under the > new. It used to be that you > owed the car tax until you moved out of the state. > Provide some sort of > proof that you had moved, a new lease, whatever and > from that date you owed no > more tax. That was "reasonable" you had property in > the state, it could be taxed. > But the rules have changed. Now you owe the tax > until you re-register your > vehicle in the new state. _In other words the state > of VA is taxing property > that is not in VA????_ I have no idea how they are > getting away with this, but > they are. > NOTE: This is not a road use tax, not a registration > tax, it is simply a > property tax (or presented that way) as I see it VA > might as well be taxing my > house in MD. > > Also note: I do not care if you think this is fair > or not, I think it is > theft. The point is that if you do not want to > "give" VA any extra money for the > damn car tax you need to re-register your bikes, > cars, etc. asap. on leaving > VA. > If you like the car tax then delay re-registration. > I have no more to say on > the topic. > > > John. > PenguinBiker@XXXXXX > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 11:55:23 2003 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:55:02 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: Elkins - list member? (now boot in door stories) At 11:31 AM 7/24/2003, you wrote: > > Two date I have stopped and yelled at 5 drivers for their stupid behavior - getting off the bike or out of the car. One followed me back to my house, tailgating, where we worked things out....(thanks carry permit!) I have since accepted that people in this area are very territorial and aggressive in their cars. If the transgression is bad enough, and they don't like me telling them off, I'll go ahead and fight them if that is what they want. Trouble is - some day one of them will pull a knife or a gun, or simply run over me in the road. And when it comes down to it, getting cut off in traffic just isn't worth it - with "it" being a trip to jail, prison or the morgue. Now when someone runs me off onto the shoulder in a two lane turn environment, I honk my horn, avoid them, then get beside them and wave. That gets their attention just as well as the middle finger or a boot to the door, without scarring wither of us for life. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 11:55:38 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:55:25 EDT Subject: Re: Helmet holder, or One of life's little conundrums solved To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/24/2003 10:56:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time, pltrgyst@XXXXXX writes: > but then you probably wouldn't be able to look down > far enough to hit the little battleship... If it is that gross already does it matter? I have been in some gas station bathrooms where peeing on the floor would be considered cleaning it. And I do love the looks you get wearing a helmet in the bathroom #:-) > John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 11:57:35 2003 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:57:32 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: Elkins - list member? (now boot in door stories) At 11:55 AM 7/24/2003, you wrote: >Two date TOO date. I hate it when that happens. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 12:02:29 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:02:02 EDT Subject: Re: Helmet holder, or One of life's little conundrums solved To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/24/2003 11:51:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time, steven.dipietro@XXXXXX writes: > If there isn't a hook on the back of the stall door, open the > face shield and slip you arm, the one your not using, What if you need both hands? #;-) > John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 12:12:13 2003 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:11:55 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Yeah, TO (it was a joke) To stem the tide of grammar helpful people emailing me, I know it is 'to date' not 'too date' - it was a joke that fell flat. /minor in English ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 12:13:18 2003 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:13:28 -0400 To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Greedy bast*#ds At 11:46 AM 7/24/03 EDT, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: >But the rules have changed. Now you owe the tax until you re-register your >vehicle in the new state. _In other words the state of VA is taxing property >that is not in VA????_ I have no idea how they are getting away with this, but >they are. Probably because nobody has challenged it in court...or the cases are still pending (could take a few years the way the courts work, and in the mean time the state can rake in a lot of money). >The point is that if you do not want to "give" VA any extra money for the >damn car tax you need to re-register your bikes, cars, etc. asap. on leaving >VA. Well, given that Maryland only gives you about 60 days to register after you move here, the "window of taxation" isn't all that big, though I suppose if it includes the tax due date it could be annoying. -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 12:17:19 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: , Subject: Re: Helmet holder, or One of life's little conundrums solved Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:21:13 -0400 ----- Original Message ----- From: > In a message dated 7/24/2003 11:51:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > steven.dipietro@XXXXXX writes: > > > If there isn't a hook on the back of the stall door, open the > > face shield and slip you arm, the one your not using, > > What if you need both hands? #;-) > > Yeah, there's that and without veering into TMI territory about toilet habits, I defy anyone to navigate the maneuver in question in a pair of Motoport pants with just one hand free. Paul in DC, 95 VFR and Motoport pants with a buckle, two snaps and a zipper.... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 12:18:31 2003 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:17:24 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Greedy bast*#ds Yep, bastards send mea bill for a `66 Norton that doesn't have enough parts to make it run let alone street legal or inspectable. Bike is too old to be taxed, the bill is for $18 for the damn sticker! And this year they sent me an "adjusted" PPtax bill for my Dakota. Seems that's my official self-employed vehicle, the one I declare when taking the bizz use fed tax deduction. It alos appears that bizz use is slightly above 50% of the total milage, and therefore, according to the greedy bastards and Jimbo Bubba Gilmore's insane tax relief plan, not eligible for the commonwealth tax relief. I had to pay the VA share for the last three years. If had the time and money I might make them prove VA didn't pay that share, but the truck is more'n a decade old and the PPtax is pocket change, not worth getting my undies in a knot. Bill PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > FYI The state of VA has changed the rules for the "personal property tax" > commonly referred to as the car tax. Keep in mind that I have moved out of VA > twice now once under the old rules, once under the new. It used to be that you > owed the car tax until you moved out of the state. Provide some sort of > proof that you had moved, a new lease, whatever and from that date you owed no > more tax. That was "reasonable" you had property in the state, it could be taxed. > But the rules have changed. Now you owe the tax until you re-register your > vehicle in the new state. _In other words the state of VA is taxing property > that is not in VA????_ I have no idea how they are getting away with this, but > they are. > NOTE: This is not a road use tax, not a registration tax, it is simply a > property tax (or presented that way) as I see it VA might as well be taxing my > house in MD. > > Also note: I do not care if you think this is fair or not, I think it is > theft. The point is that if you do not want to "give" VA any extra money for the > damn car tax you need to re-register your bikes, cars, etc. asap. on leaving > VA. > If you like the car tax then delay re-registration. I have no more to say on > the topic. > > John. > PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 12:19:47 2003 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:20:53 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Internet Brain Rot (was: Re: Elkins - list member? (now boot in door stories)) At 11:57 AM 7/24/03 -0400, Troutman wrote: >At 11:55 AM 7/24/2003, you wrote: >>Two date > >TOO date. I hate it when that happens. It's internet brain rot. You read poor spelling and grammar long enough and it starts to look correct. i used to rite much more gooder than i do know... -- Mike **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 12:26:55 2003 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:26:56 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: Greedy bast*#ds At 12:17 PM 7/24/2003, you wrote: >And this year they sent me an "adjusted" PPtax bill for my Dakota. Seems >that's my >official self-employed vehicle, the one I declare when taking the bizz use >fed tax >deduction. It alos appears that bizz use is slightly above 50% of the >total milage, >and therefore, according to the greedy bastards and Jimbo Bubba Gilmore's >insane tax >relief plan, not eligible for the commonwealth tax relief. I had to pay >the VA share >for the last three years. If had the time and money I might make them >prove VA didn't >pay that share, but the truck is more'n a decade old and the PPtax is >pocket change, >not worth getting my undies in a knot. Makes sense to me. He had to find some way of getting rid of the horrendous PP tax, and business vehicles are better able to handle the cost that individuals. Although I never did understand why businesses were subject to 'Personal Property' tax. I had my own company for several years, and every year we paid tax on our office equipment and furniture. Argh. If the property tax is too high, you could stop taking the Federal break in taxes. Can't have it both ways though. It does bother me when people lambast Gilmore for all of our budget problems. He ran on a platform of killing the car tax at any price, and that is why a lot of us voted for him. He stuck to his guns on that issue. He may have done a bunch of other goofy stuff, but I respect his killing of that particular tax (eventually). And Virginia is a victim of the same dotcom bubble burst that is killing California right now. People forget that Tysons houses MAE-EAST - the eastern Internet hub carrying 40% of the world's IP, as well as pretty much every major Telco. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 12:27:39 2003 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:26:33 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Helmet holder, or One of life's little conundrums solved PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > In a message dated 7/24/2003 11:51:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > steven.dipietro@XXXXXX writes: > > > If there isn't a hook on the back of the stall door, open the > > face shield and slip you arm, the one your not using, > > What if you need both hands? #;-) > > > John. > PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Yeah, and even worse, for awhile my doc told me I shouldn't lift anything over ten pounds - har har har... Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 12:30:42 2003 Subject: Re: Elkins - list member? (now boot in door stories) From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 24 Jul 2003 12:26:28 -0400 On Thu, 2003-07-24 at 11:55, Troutman wrote: > At 11:31 AM 7/24/2003, you wrote: > > > > > Two date I have stopped and yelled at 5 drivers for their stupid behavior - > getting off the bike or out of the car. One followed me back to my house, > tailgating, where we worked things out....(thanks carry permit!) > Whew! I've never gotten quite that far, thank goodness. Good thing it worked out for you. > I have since accepted that people in this area are very territorial and > aggressive in their cars. If the transgression is bad enough, and they > don't like me telling them off, I'll go ahead and fight them if that is > what they want. Trouble is - some day one of them will pull a knife or a > gun, or simply run over me in the road. And when it comes down to it, > getting cut off in traffic just isn't worth it - with "it" being a trip to > jail, prison or the morgue. > I agree. I am a lot better than I was. You have to understand that when I say "yelling", most of the time I'm not actually _YELLING_ but telling them off. The guy in the Safeway lot or the Van that pulled out. I told the first guy to be more careful next time and I told the van guy to think, what if it'd been someone on a bicycle instead of a motorcycle? > Now when someone runs me off onto the shoulder in a two lane turn > environment, I honk my horn, avoid them, then get beside them and > wave. That gets their attention just as well as the middle finger or a > boot to the door, without scarring wither of us for life. > I'm actually using two fingers (like a peace sign). It's a substitute for the middle finger, I can shake it at the driver which probably just confuses them (unless they're british and then I'm doing it wrong). > > ___________________________________________ > Mike Troutman Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 12:34:37 2003 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 09:34:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Boot In The Door (was: Elkins) On 24 Jul 2003, Carl Schelin wrote: > I'm actually using two fingers (like a peace sign). It's a substitute > for the middle finger, I can shake it at the driver which probably just > confuses them (unless they're british and then I'm doing it wrong). ... Which probably just confuses them all the more. Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 12:42:31 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:42:15 EDT Subject: Re: Greedy bast*#ds To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/24/2003 12:13:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time, omni@XXXXXX writes: > Well, given that Maryland only gives you about 60 days to register after > you move here, Keeping in mind that the rules have changed in MD since 9/11 (and I expect many other states) and it is now a PAIN IN THE ASS to register you vehicle and get your license* it could easily take more then 60 days (as it did in my case) you could be screwed by VA for quite a bit. *They wanted my _original_ birth certificate, not the one I have used all my life, not the one that got me into grade school, not the one that I used when I got married, not the one with the official state stamp on it. Oh no! Not good enough! The wording was not official enough. They wanted me to contact my birth state and have them send a new official one (wanna bet how easy that would be these days?) so I could get my drivers license. No matter that I had a drivers license from VA, no matter that there is a paper trail that goes all the way back to 1964 when I got my first license. Bureaucrats! Spit! John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 12:43:13 2003 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:43:09 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Greedy bast*#ds To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >>But the rules have changed. Now you owe the tax until you re-register your >>vehicle in the new state. _In other words the state of VA is taxing property >>that is not in VA????_ [Dave] Virginia - and other states - levy tax on property which is stored in or on Virginia territory, or for which the "Primary use" is intended to be in Virginia. As far as I know, so long as you advise the local taxing authority that you no longer have the vehicle, or have moved out of state, the license plates are notwithstanding. But if you don't notify the taxing authority, the bills will roll in forever.... Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 12:44:13 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:44:06 EDT Subject: Re: Greedy bast*#ds To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/24/2003 12:18:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bhuson@XXXXXX writes: > the PPtax is pocket change, > not worth getting my undies in a knot. And the bastards know that. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 12:47:58 2003 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:49:03 -0400 To: DC-Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Boot In The Door (was: Elkins) At 09:34 AM 7/24/03 -0700, Fish Flowers wrote: >On 24 Jul 2003, Carl Schelin wrote: > >> I'm actually using two fingers (like a peace sign). It's a substitute >> for the middle finger, I can shake it at the driver which probably just >> confuses them (unless they're british and then I'm doing it wrong). > >... Which probably just confuses them all the more. You could always use the "OK" signal, and hope they aren't Greek... :^) -- Mike **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 12:53:53 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:53:37 EDT Subject: Re: Greedy bast*#ds To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/24/2003 12:43:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Dave@XXXXXX writes: > As far as I > know, so long as you advise the local taxing authority that > you no longer have the vehicle, or have moved out of state, That is not what I said, that is not what they said. You owe the tax until you register you vehicle in your new state. That fact that I could prove I no longer lived in VA made no difference, they wanted MONEY! As I said I have moved out of VA twice, I know how it works. It is a way to get you for more MONEY. Greed plain and simple. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 12:56:45 2003 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:56:41 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Greedy bast*#ds To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Yep, bastards send mea bill for a `66 Norton that doesn't >have enough parts to make it run let alone street legal or >inspectable. Bike is too old to be taxed, the bill >is for $18 for the damn sticker! [Dave] Ridiculous. But that isn't Virginia, it's Fairfax... VA law doesn't say the counties MUST levy a personal property tax... It says they MAY... > >And this year they sent me an "adjusted" PPtax bill for my >Dakota. Seems that's my official self-employed vehicle, the >one I declare when taking the bizz use fed tax >deduction. It alos appears that bizz use is slightly above >50% of the total milage, and therefore, according to the >greedy bastards [Dave] Again, for the purposes of the above rant, he means Fairfax county... > and Jimbo Bubba Gilmore's insane tax >relief plan, not eligible for the commonwealth tax relief. [Dave] I didn't know that Gilmore & Warner's middle names were both the same, that's interesting. In all fairness to Jimbo's get-elected-at-all-costs ponzi scheme, the General Ass-embly passed it. It's a stupid idea, lost in a sea of stupid ideas... Wilder actually had some darn good ideas that just got shat upon by the 'good old boys' and scoffed at... too bad, way too much gubmint fat in VA now... The very thought of "restructuring the VA tax code" just makes me want to open up a foreign bank account and start hiding what little money I have.... Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 13:00:38 2003 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:01:10 -0400 To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Greedy bast*#ds At 12:42 PM 7/24/03 EDT, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: >In a message dated 7/24/2003 12:13:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >omni@XXXXXX writes: >*They wanted my _original_ birth certificate, not the one I have used all my >life, not the one that got me into grade school, not the one that I used when >I got married, not the one with the official state stamp on it. Oh no! Not >good enough! The wording was not official enough. They wanted me to contact my >birth state and have them send a new official one (wanna bet how easy that would >be these days?) so I could get my drivers license. No matter that I had a >drivers license from VA, no matter that there is a paper trail that goes all the >way back to 1964 when I got my first license. >Bureaucrats! Spit! Sheesh! That's just stupid. I can understand wanting to be sure you aren't an Alqueda terrorist, but that's just ridiculous. If they want verification from your birth state, they should ask for it themselves...that way they can be sure of it, right? Believing Virginia would make sense too...they believe when people with VA drivers licenses drive in MD, so what's the big deal? I used my VA driver's license to get my MD one...no tests at all, just turn in the VA one and get handed a MD one. 9/11 was very serious, and some precautions are warranted, but let's not get completely stupid about it. I don't rent from U-Haul anymore because I refuse to fund idiocy. The last time (when I was renting a truck to help move my ex-wife out) they insisted on fingerprints (not a good time to piss me off...)! Like any of the employees of that company are trained in forensics...or anyone who is will see the prints before I'd have time to go build a truck bomb and set it off if that's what I was planning. Stupid, annoying and insulting BS!!! I don't deal with companies that treat their customers with that level of disrespect...not just the fingerprinting, I mean thinking that I'd be stupid enough to think that it had any real purpose. I feel similarly about "airline security" and only fly when there is no other *possible* choice. Apparently a lot of people feel the same way, as there's been a 40% drop in passenger flights since they started the nail clipper confiscation crap. Unfortunately, you don't have options with states unless you are willing to move. Or you can get enough people to feel the same way...and have them vote based on it (assuming you can find a slate of candidates who will do any differently once elected...you won't with the Demoblican Party). -- Mike **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 13:07:46 2003 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'DCCycles'" Cc: "'t_gimer@XXXXXX'" Subject: Motorcycles hit stuff Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:10:52 -0400 Here's my [Alt]50 [Alt]155 Target fixation: I'd name that #3 on the "Funny moto video" list of misteaks. For us city drivers: It's a Good Thing whilst rolling down the street to spy bits of crap on the road and practice looking at where you want to go to avoid it. Early in my motorcycling experience, I caught my self looking at stuff on the road to figure out what it was -- and -- then running over it. (duh) Elkins - list member? That's sad. Both the deaths and the %$#& van driver's incompetence. Tom Gimer has hands full with an eight-day-old son to tend to Congratulations. Over the next few weeks, the kid will become an interactive human. Enjoy the following dozen years until he becomes a teen. :^) COMOAM On a more cheerful note, here's an account of what happened when an aggressive Nu Yawk cager tried to run a motorcycle off the road -- the driver was a cop in mufti (Cuttler, A.K.A. COMOAM). http://tinyurl.com/hv20 Janine asked the other day for me to tell the story of the "Crazy Old Man On A Motorcycle" I dug out the original files from 1997 and put them up on a web site. When you get there you need to click on the PDF link as the plain text version has not yet been put up. My son will do so soon (he says). Coincidentally, the cartoon he put up has a statement that I actually made in a court room once, while testifying as a witness, and being cross examined by the defense attorney. The judge admonished me, :( From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 13:10:10 2003 Subject: Re: Greedy bast*#ds From: Carl Schelin To: Mike Bartman Cc: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 24 Jul 2003 13:05:52 -0400 On Thu, 2003-07-24 at 13:01, Mike Bartman wrote: > I don't rent from U-Haul anymore because I refuse to fund idiocy. The last > time (when I was renting a truck to help move my ex-wife out) they insisted > on fingerprints (not a good time to piss me off...)! Like any of the > employees of that company are trained in forensics...or anyone who is will > see the prints before I'd have time to go build a truck bomb and set it off > if that's what I was planning. Stupid, annoying and insulting BS!!! I > don't deal with companies that treat their customers with that level of > disrespect...not just the fingerprinting, I mean thinking that I'd be > stupid enough to think that it had any real purpose. > Especially since Ryder is the rental truck of choice among choosy terrorists. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 13:10:39 2003 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:09:34 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Troutman CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Greedy bast*#ds Troutman wrote: > Makes sense to me. He had to find some way of getting rid of the > horrendous PP tax, and business vehicles are better able to handle the cost > that individuals. Although I never did understand why businesses were > subject to 'Personal Property' tax. I had my own company for several > years, and every year we paid tax on our office equipment and furniture. Argh. > > If the property tax is too high, you could stop taking the Federal break in > taxes. Can't have it both ways though. > > It does bother me when people lambast Gilmore for all of our budget > problems. He ran on a platform of killing the car tax at any price, and > that is why a lot of us voted for him. He stuck to his guns on that > issue. He may have done a bunch of other goofy stuff, but I respect his > killing of that particular tax (eventually). And Virginia is a victim of > the same dotcom bubble burst that is killing California right now. People > forget that Tysons houses MAE-EAST - the eastern Internet hub carrying 40% > of the world's IP, as well as pretty much every major Telco. > Oh dear me, yet another facts challanged no taxer. Gilmore killed the car tax? Not hardly, he couldn't kill it, not allowed under the VA constitution which grants the right to all counties to collect property tax. Gilmore knew he'd get elected by dimwits who refused to acknowledge the facts in law, and he grossly underestimatd the cost to the commonwealth to PAY a portion of the car tax. Dead? Nope. Methinks VA pays 70% now, we pay 30%. For a dead tax we be talking a lotta cash changing hands. And of course, suffering financial setbacks including the approaching billion dollar/year car tax relief program, VA slashwed funding to the localities. Result? If you own a house you know, my tax assessment went up about 20% last year and more'n 25% this year. Bottom line, I'm still paying about the same county tax as before. Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 13:11:54 2003 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:11:42 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Greedy bast*#ds To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX John recoils in horror after dealing with (probably waldorf) MVA: >Keeping in mind that the rules have changed in MD since 9/11 >(and I expect many other states) and it is now a PAIN IN THE >ASS to register you vehicle and get your license* it could >easily take more then 60 days (as it did in my case) >you could be screwed by VA for quite a bit. > [Dave] Reality check: MVA has ALWAYS been a thorn in the ass of Md motorists. It started getting bad about 90 - 92 - back when they didn't NEED armed security in the buildings... Their attitude started taking a serious turn for the worse about that time frame, and I was IN the Waldorf MVA when one of the employee assaults took place - a much deserved assault I might add, as the MVA idiot was goading the guy. Here's another little tidbit - if MVA doesn't want to do (whatever service you're there to pay for) they can refuse, for any reason, and there isn't a damn thing you can do, period. Rule book be damned. They know full well you're spending your time there as well as time off from work, and 99% want to be in and out quickly so if there's ever a problem customer, they send them to the "branch manager" for "special attention". There you get to wait and wait, and wait, and get told exactly the same thing the counter clerk told you. Thank GOD I don't have to go back there... Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 13:17:39 2003 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:17:36 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Greedy bast*#ds To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >That is not what I said, that is not what they said. You owe >the tax until you register you vehicle in your new state. >That fact that I could prove I no longer lived in VA made no >difference, they wanted MONEY! As I said I have moved >out of VA twice, I know how it works. [Dave] That must be the new, improved, uber-fight-terrorism- by-tax law. I would certainly like to know, were I in a similar situation: what enabling statute has granted the the expressed authrority to levy a tax on a vehicle no longer stored in the state, and currently unregistered and whose primary use is not for Virginia.. Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 13:18:41 2003 Reply-To: "S. Russell" From: "S. Russell" To: Subject: Thursday night in Rockville Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:18:06 -0400 Well the sun is out and shouldn't be bad tonight, anyone doing Starbucks or Hooters? My 84 Nighthawk will be out around 8:30. Scott From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 13:53:02 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: Subject: Re: Re: Helmet holder, or One of life's little conundrums solved Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:52:55 -0400 > At 09:18 AM 7/24/03 -0400, Paul Wilson wrote: > >So you're riding solo and pull up to some skanky gas station and need to > >take a leak. For whatever reason, I've never felt comfortable leaving the > >helmet unattended and unlocked on the bike. I don't want to go through the > >hassle of pulling out my cable lock. And there rarely *clean* places to put > >a helmet in the average men's room. So, I was at the sporting goods store > >in Buffalo, Wyo., and I notice the carabiners, snap rings with the spring > >release. Perfect, I thought. I wear that on the waist cinch belt of my > >Motoport jacket, pass the D-rings of the strap onto the carabiner and hook > >the helmet to my jacket while "taking care of business" with both hands > >free. Works great. I put a "helmet guardian" on my bike. Works very well, although it is a little pricey: http://www.cyclegadgets.com/Products/product.asp?Item=GUARDIAN Also available at: http://www.sporttouringusa.com/helmetguardian.php and http://www.casporttouring.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=12003&Category_Code=Locks I've dealt with all three of these vendors with excellent results. Bob Bob Meyer '92 Standard STOC # 1157 If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 14:03:26 2003 From: "Laura Roach" To: Subject: Summit Point: August 2-3 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 14:23:22 -0400 Hey All! Is anyone heading out to summit point in two weekends to watch the WERA Nationals? Roach and I will be there...I think Roach will actually be racing that weekend. Let me know...maybe we can have a DC Cycles gathering and watch some good racing! We met Adam R. when we were at summit a few weeks ago! It was really cool to meet another lister out at the track. :) Laura From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 14:12:20 2003 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 14:13:19 -0400 To: "'DCCycles'" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Motorcycles hit stuff At 01:10 PM 7/24/03 -0400, Custer, Carl wrote: >Janine asked the other day for me to tell the story of the > "Crazy Old Man On A Motorcycle" Scary story indeed. Shows a number of problems with the current system very well. This bit in particular: ---- My attorney speaks in private to the jury after the judge does. They tell him the first vote was 6 to 3 for the defendant (me) strictly along racial lines. After some deliberation the next vote was 8 to 1. The hold out is told that she would have to return tomorrow to continue deliberations. She changes her vote. What would happen if she had nothing to do tomorrow? Or if she lived closer? Or more importantly, if the plaintiff and his witnesses had rehearsed their testimony better and did a better job of lying? Or the racial makeup of the jury was different? This is all very disturbing. ---- A guy I once worked with got picked for a jury trial. I don't recall the case much (it was a civil suit), but his comment about what one juror said as they entered the jury room stuck with me. The speaker was black, as was the plaintiff (along with a few other jurors, but that was irrelevant). His first statement in the "deliberations" was, "I don't care what you all say, the brother's gettin' somethin'." That sort of racism has no place in a jury, but there's nothing in the system to keep it out or even inhibit it. It took several days to argue the guy out of that mindset, with efforts by all the other jurors. Only the threat of *never* getting out of there eventually changed his mind. The actual facts of the case were irrelevant to him, only the race of the plaintiff mattered. Luckily the other jurors were more reasonable about things. If you could always count on that, we wouldn't have a huge problem, but you can't count on that. -- Mike "maybe Tom won't jump on me this time since I didn't say 'l*wy*r" Bartman -- P.S. Any idea why the inital charges didn't include things like "attempted murder", "assault with a deadly weapon", "speeding", "failure to signal a lane change", and "resisting arrest", along with the reckless driving charge? I'm sure that would have had an effect on the flow of future events and perhaps precluded this case ever making it to court. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 14:18:11 2003 From: "Perry Coleman" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Helmet holder, or One of life's little conundrums solved Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 14:17:03 -0400 Yeah, that was going to be my question, too... Perry >From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: Helmet holder, or One of life's little conundrums solved >Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:02:02 EDT > >In a message dated 7/24/2003 11:51:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >steven.dipietro@XXXXXX writes: > > > If there isn't a hook on the back of the stall door, open the > > face shield and slip you arm, the one your not using, > >What if you need both hands? #;-) > > >John. >PenguinBiker@XXXXXX > _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 14:19:00 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Greedy bast*#ds Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 14:18:53 -0400 > > From: Mike Bartman > > I don't rent from U-Haul anymore because I refuse to fund idiocy. The last > time (when I was renting a truck to help move my ex-wife out) they insisted > on fingerprints (not a good time to piss me off...)! Like any of the > employees of that company are trained in forensics...or anyone who is will > see the prints before I'd have time to go build a truck bomb and set it off > if that's what I was planning. I don't think the idea is to PREVENT you from using their truck as a weapon, but to make it easier to track you down later. But I, too, would have a serious problem with giving my fingerprints to some yahoo at U-Haul, never knowing what's going to happen with them down the road. Bob Meyer '92 Standard STOC # 1157 If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 14:27:13 2003 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 14:27:18 -0400 To: "William J. Huson" , Troutman From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Greedy bast*#ds Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 01:09 PM 7/24/03 -0400, William J. Huson wrote: >localities. Result? If you own a house you know, my tax assessment went up about >20% last year and more'n 25% this year. Bottom line, I'm still paying about the >same county tax as before. And you always will. What most voters don't seem to figure out is that if the government is going to spend money they have to collect it first. You can play games with where it comes from directly, but it always comes from the public in the end. Tax businesses? Fine...product and service prices rise to compensate. Tax rich people? Fine...rich people tend to own businesses, so they raise the costs of products and services to compensate...or they get taxed to the point where they are no longer so rich...or they move away and take their money with them. Print more money? Inflation makes the money less valuable and you are worse off than when you started. Depending on how you play the "who to tax" game, you can make things much worse than just taxing everyone evenly and fairly. When Congress passed the "luxury" tax a few years back they anticipated lots of new money to play with as well as a great "sock it to the rich" theme to campaign on...it actually cost them money in the end. Why? Because the people who bought yachts and fancy cars and other items covered by the new tax bought them elsewhere (like Europe). That not only meant there wasn't any tax to collect, it also meant that people who built yachts had no more customers...so they laid their workers off...so the workers went on unemployment and welfare. The industry was almost wiped out and those who worked in it were harmed badly, and the government got to pay out lots of money to help them stay afloat (no pun intended), and there wasn't even any new tax money (not anywhere near enough anyway) to cover the loses. It was a net loss to the government all around. The only way to cut taxes (both the direct kind you can see, and the unseen ones that result from whatever method you use) is to reduce government expenditures. That means make it more efficient and/or reduce what it handles. Efficiency is really hard to get when you have to do things in ways that keep everyone happy all at once, and eliminating functions always pisses off someone who was using that "free" service, and that costs votes. Met effect is that government continues to grow and to spend more and to tax more to pay for it, and to take on more powers at the expense of our freedom to justify the growth. We can fix it with the right voting patterns, but it will take changes in how we use our votes (at least a large minority of us anyway, if not a majority). If you do what you've always done there, you'll probably get what you've always gotten. To expect otherwise is one definition of "insane". -- Mike **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 14:31:12 2003 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 14:30:25 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Elkins - list member? (now boot in door stories) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > >Two date I have stopped and yelled at 5 drivers for their >stupid behavior - >getting off the bike or out of the car. One followed me >back to my house, tailgating, where we worked things out.... >(thanks carry permit!) > [Dave] Never allow this to happen. Never lead someone to your house that you even remotely suspect is coming there for less than friendlly purposes. If you have to ventilate them, you don't want their corpse rotting in your yard... >I have since accepted that people in this area are very >territorial and aggressive in their cars. If the >transgression is bad enough, and they don't like me telling >them off, I'll go ahead and fight them if that is >what they want. Trouble is - some day one of them will pull >a knife or a gun, or simply run over me in the road. And >when it comes down to it, getting cut off in traffic just >isn't worth it - with "it" being a trip to jail, prison or >the morgue. > Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 14:33:45 2003 Reply-To: wayne@XXXXXX From: "wayne@XXXXXX" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Thursday night in Rockville Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 14:33:37 -0400 I was planning to ride tonight, I'll make a route that puts us around Starbucks (B&N?) at 8:30pm. -- Wayne Original Message: ----------------- From: S. Russell ttocsmai@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:18:06 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Thursday night in Rockville Well the sun is out and shouldn't be bad tonight, anyone doing Starbucks or Hooters? My 84 Nighthawk will be out around 8:30. Scott -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 14:38:02 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Dave Yates" , Subject: Re: Greedy bast*#ds Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 14:43:56 -0400 Actually they (cities/counties) are required to levy a tax on *all* forms of property by the terms of the 1956? Constitution. I think this was rammed into the Constitution by rural interests, so their farms couldn't be taxed into oblivion while city slickers and suburbanites skated by with their luxury vee-hickles. The rub is that in many downstate parts of Va., the tax is/was very low. In Charlottesville it was less than $50 a year, as I recall, including buying the damn sticker. UnFairTax County and a few other jurisdictions saw this as a cash cow and jacked up the rates. If they didn't like the car tax, people should have laid the blame where it belonged, at the feet of the County Boards who set the rates. In quite a contortionist move, though, the Counties managed to play the *victim* of the anti-tax movement Gilmore stirred up, as if this money belonged to them in perpetuity. Quite a feat if you axe me. ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Yates To: Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 12:56 PM Subject: Re: Greedy bast*#ds > >Yep, bastards send mea bill for a `66 Norton that doesn't > >have enough parts to make it run let alone street legal or > >inspectable. Bike is too old to be taxed, the bill > >is for $18 for the damn sticker! > > [Dave] Ridiculous. But that isn't Virginia, it's > Fairfax... VA law doesn't say the counties MUST levy a > personal property tax... It says they MAY... > > > > >And this year they sent me an "adjusted" PPtax bill for my > >Dakota. Seems that's my official self-employed vehicle, the > >one I declare when taking the bizz use fed tax > >deduction. It alos appears that bizz use is slightly above > >50% of the total milage, and therefore, according to the > >greedy bastards > > [Dave] Again, for the purposes of the above rant, he means > Fairfax county... > > > > and Jimbo Bubba Gilmore's insane tax > >relief plan, not eligible for the commonwealth tax relief. > > [Dave] I didn't know that Gilmore & Warner's middle names > were both the same, that's interesting. In all fairness to > Jimbo's get-elected-at-all-costs ponzi scheme, the General > Ass-embly passed it. It's a stupid idea, lost in a sea of > stupid ideas... > > Wilder actually had some darn good ideas that just got shat > upon by the 'good old boys' and scoffed at... too bad, way > too much gubmint fat in VA now... > > The very thought of "restructuring the VA tax code" just > makes me want to open up a foreign bank account and start > hiding what little money I have.... > > > Dave Yates > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 14:42:24 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Greedy bast*#ds Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:43:18 -0500 When I got my drivers license in MD a couple months ago I walked in with the birth certificate my mom got when she gave birth to me in the hospital. This wasn't good enough either because it was a request to have a birth certificate filed and not the real thing. I mean this thing is stamped, typed, old and aged, it couldn't look more authentic. So I called my home town in Upstate NY to get it mailed to me. Well they couldn't do that without a writen request and a photocopy of my DRIVERS LICENSE!!!! Luckily I still had my NY state license. Finally I got them to let my mom pick it up with her ID in hand (they still live there). She mailed it too me. When I got it, it was the saddest piece of document I have ever seen. I could have printed it on my inkjet and embossed it at home. That was perfectly accetpable though. Next step is to register the bike but I am still waiting for my 2nd mirror to come in cause MD requires two mirrors on your bike(LAME). I am not looking forward to registering it. After payin 90 bux to get my license, which I also have a great story for. I was going through the 4 lines you need to wait in to move my license over. I get to this one line where the guy gets my info and types it into the computer so I can wait in line to get my photo taken. He puts it in, I get my picture taken and I get my new license. Suprise, no Motorcycle endorsement. So I go over to the guy and say where is my motorcycle endorsement? He is like you don't have one. I reply uh I checked the box and my old license had it, which your lady took from me. So I was like go check y old license for it. Get this they already shredded it. Well I think they must of realized that the MVA rocket science guy must have screwed up and when I refused to leave till I have a license with a motorcycle endorsement. They ran me through again and charged me 45 more bux so 90 bux in all to get my license. It's rediculous, it cost like 35 bux in NY to get your license and that includes all the tests, ect this is nothing more than issuing a license. What pisses me off the most is the girl behind me got pushed through everything at an alarming rate because she was just screaming and bitching at everyone the whole time she was there. She didn't have some piece of her 9 types of proof required to get an MD license. I don't wanna start a race riot but she seams to be the same ethnicity of all the workers there too, which I was not, and they never let anything slide with me. Of course I didn't make a scene and was polite to the MVA workers. On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:42:15 EDT, PenguinBiker wrote > In a message dated 7/24/2003 12:13:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > omni@XXXXXX writes: > > > Well, given that Maryland only gives you about 60 days to register after > > you move here, > > Keeping in mind that the rules have changed in MD since 9/11 (and I > expect many other states) and it is now a PAIN IN THE ASS to > register you vehicle and get your license* it could easily take more > then 60 days (as it did in my case) you could be screwed by VA for > quite a bit. > > *They wanted my _original_ birth certificate, not the one I have > used all my life, not the one that got me into grade school, not the > one that I used when I got married, not the one with the official > state stamp on it. Oh no! Not good enough! The wording was not > official enough. They wanted me to contact my birth state and have > them send a new official one (wanna bet how easy that would be these > days?) so I could get my drivers license. No matter that I had a > drivers license from VA, no matter that there is a paper trail that > goes all the way back to 1964 when I got my first license. > Bureaucrats! Spit! > > John Walters (Long John) > PenguinBiker@XXXXXX > Up near DC > > Honda ST1100X Pan European > BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles > Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer -- Rob Sharp SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 14:50:22 2003 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:50:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Scratch Subject: Fwd: Must Sell: 2 Vintage Triumphs To: DCC Please contact Howard or Rhea (pronounced "Ray") if interested. Rich ===================================================== Health and changing lifestyle forces sale of our two vintage Triumphs: 1977 - Silver Jubilee (Special Edition 750 Bonneville). Nice clean original condition. Approx. 12,000 miles. New "period" tyres. Original certificate. $3000.00/OBO. 1979 - 750 Bonneville. Low miles on well-maintained 3-year old restoration. Black/gold. Euro jetting; new coils. Good tyres. $3000.00/OBO. Both motorcycles have been garage-kept and professionally maintained. Both are good fun reliable rides. Both have trophied at VBMC and other events. Call Rhea/Howard Stickley at (540)775-3048 (Home - ignore annoying answering machine). Work: Howard - (540)653-1010. Rhea - (540)644-6615. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 14:52:53 2003 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:52:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Scratch Subject: Fwd: It's a chopper, baby To: DCC 'nuther one. Contact Cherokee if interested. Rich ================================================ bsa67cherokee@XXXXXX wrote: From: bsa67cherokee@XXXXXX Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 08:21:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Cherokee_006_3A.JPG FOR SALE 67 bsa hornet chopper. the "green hornet" forward controls new boyer, new rear brake drum, new rear tire, ...ect ect to many new things to list. new kid in the house, only room for my chopper. $4500.00 obo (804)368-7391 or bsa67cherokee@XXXXXX Pic here: http://www.virginiabritishmotorcycleclub.org/images/Cherokee_006_3A.JPG __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 14:57:43 2003 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:57:35 -0700 (PDT) From: David Fruehwald Subject: Out of state (VA) purchase To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Does anyone have a checklist of things to do when buying a bike outside of Virginia to get it ready to legally ride it back to Virginia? I'd also like to know what fees and taxes to expect. Need to stop surfing cycletrader and ebay :-) Thanks __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 15:33:30 2003 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:33:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Larry Larson Subject: Re: Helmet holder, or One of life's little conundrums solved To: Paul Wilson , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Paul Wilson wrote: > I prefer not to wear my helmet in gas stations and > mini-marts (stop'n'robs). > I think it's a little rude to the staff and other > customers. Another reason to like flip-face helmets! -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 15:59:42 2003 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 15:58:37 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: She lives! (moto-no-wheels) Day off today and I embarked on a mission to get the yard queen going. My boat, sitting under the pine trees since 1998 when motorcycles, teaching the BRC, and a few other hobbies kinda took over. Luv that jap crap! The dusty, mungy, pine sap coated Yamaha fired right up. Mosquitos be gone - engine fogged half the `hood blowing off the fog oil. Seems the fuel pump needs attention, spitting a bit of gas outta the vent hole. Methinks tiny hole in the diaphragm. And I'm sure the upper poppet valves are stuck again, she's not blowing cooling water out of the tower ports at high RPM. E-Z fixes. The downside. This fall when I head out for the Outer Banks the boat will be in tow. Unless one of surf fishing team members wants to tow it, my Harley will have to stay home. Bummer. Well, maybe not. This may mean I'll have to take a seperate bike trip to Eastern Carolina to get my *fix* :-) Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 16:26:48 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 16:26:36 EDT Subject: Re: Motorcycles hit stuff To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/24/2003 2:12:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, omni@XXXXXX writes: > His first statement in the "deliberations" was, "I don't care what you all > say, the brother's gettin' somethin'." That sort of racism has no place in > a jury, I would think that reporting the statement to the judge would have you _and_ him out of threre in a hurry. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 16:32:42 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 16:32:30 EDT Subject: Re: Greedy bast*#ds To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/24/2003 2:42:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rob@XXXXXX writes: > Of course I didn't make a > scene and was polite to the MVA workers. I _started_ that way. The trick was I did not end that way..... John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 16:32:46 2003 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:32:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Motorcycles hit stuff To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Why 'you'? --- PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > In a message dated 7/24/2003 2:12:31 PM Eastern > Daylight Time, > omni@XXXXXX writes: > > > His first statement in the "deliberations" was, "I > don't care what you all > > say, the brother's gettin' somethin'." That sort > of racism has no place in > > a jury, > > I would think that reporting the statement to the > judge would have you _and_ > him out of threre in a hurry. > > John. > PenguinBiker@XXXXXX > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 16:39:25 2003 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 16:40:20 -0400 To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Motorcycles hit stuff At 04:26 PM 7/24/03 EDT, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: >In a message dated 7/24/2003 2:12:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >omni@XXXXXX writes: > >> His first statement in the "deliberations" was, "I don't care what you all >> say, the brother's gettin' somethin'." That sort of racism has no place in >> a jury, > >I would think that reporting the statement to the judge would have you _and_ >him out of threre in a hurry. Well, him anyway. It would tend to indicate that he'd lied when the judge asked (as was done when I got called once) whether there was any reason why the jury members wouldn't be able to reach a decision based solely on the facts as presented during the trial. I hear judges don't like people lying to them all that much. :^) No way to tell what might have happened in that situation, as that's not what the jury members did in that case...according to my co-worker's description of things anyway (hearsay :^). -- Mike **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 16:40:52 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 16:40:39 EDT Subject: Re: Greedy bast*#ds To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/24/2003 2:42:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rob@XXXXXX writes: > When I got my drivers license in MD a couple months ago I walked in with the > birth certificate my mom got when she gave birth to me in the hospital. Your story is *exactly* the same as mine, right down to NY birth. And what you had to do to get your "real" birth certificate" is exactly what I expected to happen. The difference seems to be my "wheel" "squeaked" a bit more then yours. #:-o> I managed to talk (ok bitch) my way out of it. This story is just an FYI to you folks that will be moving to another state. Things have changed and you will need all of your ducks in an official row before you can accomplish anything. It may pay to inquire with your new state as to what is required _months_ before you move to give you time. Hope this helps someone. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 16:41:44 2003 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 16:42:38 -0400 To: Mark Kitchell , PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Motorcycles hit stuff Not sure what Penguin was thinking, but I'd guess that the juror in question would be found in contempt of court and be sitting in a cell for a while, and with the jury short a member it might end up a mistrial. Only option might be if there were any "alternate jurors" who'd been in court to hear the case who could be swapped in to replace him. I don't think they do that for civil cases though, but that's just a vague impression. -- Mike At 01:32 PM 7/24/03 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote: >Why 'you'? > > >--- PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: >> In a message dated 7/24/2003 2:12:31 PM Eastern >> Daylight Time, >> omni@XXXXXX writes: >> >> > His first statement in the "deliberations" was, "I >> don't care what you all >> > say, the brother's gettin' somethin'." That sort >> of racism has no place in >> > a jury, >> >> I would think that reporting the statement to the >> judge would have you _and_ >> him out of threre in a hurry. >> >> John. >> PenguinBiker@XXXXXX >> > > >===== > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software >http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 16:44:53 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 16:44:43 EDT Subject: Re: Motorcycles hit stuff To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/24/2003 4:36:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, markkitchell@XXXXXX writes: > Why 'you'? What I meant was everyone. I would expect the whole jury to be dismissed. (Hell I do not know, we have members who could tell us. Anyone?) John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 17:17:42 2003 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 17:18:40 -0400 To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Motorcycles hit stuff At 04:44 PM 7/24/03 EDT, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: >In a message dated 7/24/2003 4:36:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >markkitchell@XXXXXX writes: > >> Why 'you'? >What I meant was everyone. I would expect the whole jury to be dismissed. >(Hell I do not know, we have members who could tell us. Anyone?) Oh, I thought you meant the jury...since I wasn't there at all it couldn't have been me personally. :^) -- Mike "it was a guy I used to work with" Bartman -- **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 17:58:14 2003 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 14:58:06 -0700 (PDT) From: matthew patton Subject: Re: Greedy bast*#ds To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Here is a "truism" "Liberalism always generates the exact opposite of it's stated intent." Now granted conservatives play tax games too but the typical liberal democrat only believes that more money will miraculously turn around a program that has failed every single year it's tried. Come to think of it, certain high-ranking DISA (defense information systems agency) also think along such lines, too. War on drugs? War on poverty? War on (non-affordable) medical insurance? Not a bloody thing they do does anything but make the society overall worse than before. ===== * Love, not time, heals all wounds. * No one is perfect until you fall in love with them. And then when they aren't perfect anymore, love makes them perfect again. * Everyone wants to live on top of the mountain, but all the happiness and growth occurs while you're climbing it * You can not forgive unless you first love. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 18:13:37 2003 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 15:13:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Larry Larson Subject: Re: Greedy bast*#ds To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- matthew patton wrote: > Here is a "truism" > "Liberalism always generates the exact opposite of it's > stated intent." > > Now granted conservatives play tax games too but the > typical liberal democrat only believes that more money will > miraculously turn around a program that has failed every > single year it's tried. Matt, I know an awful lot of liberal democrats, including my wife and several congresspeople, and not one of them thinks that way. What's the point of saying things like that? -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 22:27:21 2003 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 22:28:25 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Greedy bast*#ds At 02:58 PM 7/24/03 -0700, matthew patton wrote: >Here is a "truism" > >"Liberalism always generates the exact opposite of it's stated intent." > >Now granted conservatives play tax games too but the typical liberal >democrat only believes that more money will miraculously turn around a >program that has failed every single year it's tried. Come to think of >it, certain high-ranking DISA (defense information systems agency) also >think along such lines, too. I don't disagree, but I think a lot of government failures are due to "the law of unintended consequences", which is due in large part to using static analysis to predict the outcome of any action. Static analysis is fatally flawed in that it assumes that you can change just one thing. You can't. There's also the fact that cooperating with government initiatives is not at the top of everyone's goal list. As some biologist once observed: "Under the most rigorously controlled conditions of pressure, temperature, volume, humidity, and other variables, the organism will do as it damn well pleases." -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Jul 24 22:39:26 2003 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 22:53:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: RE: Thursday night in Rockville On Thu, 24 Jul 2003, wayne@XXXXXX wrote: > I was planning to ride tonight, I'll make a route that puts us around > Starbucks (B&N?) at 8:30pm. > > -- Wayne Met up with Scott, Frank, Paul, Nick and a few others from the list tonight. Nice hanging out and even with all the bsing, we still rode about 75 miles. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 09:15:45 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: Subject: Attn VFR folks - WDGAH7 is approaching! Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 09:22:22 -0400 That's the 7th Annual "We Don't Give A Hoot," the annual gathering in Lebanon, NH, the weekend after Labor Day, Sept. 13-14. A great time to see New England, after the school vacation Winnebago pilots have gone home and the leaf peepers have yet to come out. I'll be heading up on Friday, probably. You don't *have* to ride a VFR, but it may be a little nauseating to hear the faithful waxing on about the glories of the Almighty VFR. ;-) Paul in DC, 95 VFR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 09:27:21 2003 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: security Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 09:16:12 -0400 I talked to one of Arlington's finest this morning and he said it was fine to run a chain around a lamp post or street sign to secure a motorcycle. _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 09:30:30 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 06:30:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Greedy bast*#ds To: matthew patton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX War on Drugs was not a liberal program, but one of Reagan/Bush Sr. --- matthew patton wrote: > Here is a "truism" > > "Liberalism always generates the exact opposite of > it's stated intent." > > Now granted conservatives play tax games too but the > typical liberal > democrat only believes that more money will > miraculously turn around a > program that has failed every single year it's > tried. Come to think of > it, certain high-ranking DISA (defense information > systems agency) also > think along such lines, too. > > War on drugs? War on poverty? War on > (non-affordable) medical > insurance? Not a bloody thing they do does anything > but make the > society overall worse than before. > > ===== > * Love, not time, heals all wounds. > > * No one is perfect until you fall in love with > them. And then when they aren't perfect anymore, > love makes them perfect again. > > * Everyone wants to live on top of the mountain, but > all the happiness and growth occurs while you're > climbing it > > * You can not forgive unless you first love. > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site > design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 09:32:57 2003 From: "Perry Coleman" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Thursday night in Rockville Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 09:32:49 -0400 I'm sorry we missed it. The wife and I rode up towards Frederick, had dinner and then rode over towards Mt. Airy and then on back down to Gaithersburg. Got back to the house about 8:45, parked the bikes, got out of our gear and then remembered about B&N. We didn't feel up to going back out at that time. We'll try again another week... Perry >From: Wayne Edelen >To: >Subject: RE: Thursday night in Rockville >Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 22:53:18 -0400 (EDT) > >On Thu, 24 Jul 2003, wayne@XXXXXX wrote: > > > I was planning to ride tonight, I'll make a route that puts us around > > Starbucks (B&N?) at 8:30pm. > > > > -- Wayne > >Met up with Scott, Frank, Paul, Nick and a few others from the list >tonight. Nice hanging out and even with all the bsing, we still rode >about 75 miles. > >-- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ > _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 09:55:37 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 09:55:32 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Greedy bast*#ds To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Kitchell corrected: >War on Drugs was not a liberal program, but one of >Reagan/Bush Sr. > [Dave] I recollect it was started during the Reagan era and has proliferated from there. One wonders if there will be a rash of new conviction appeals on CDS in the "privacy of one's home" referring to the recent USSC decision overturning the Sodomy law(s). As before however, remember that while Reagan championed the cause, Congress enacted and funded it, and has continued to, across idealogical beliefs. Conservatives, moderates, democrats, liberals, socialists all have one thing in common - they all want your money for their programs, and it's just tough to take a political party sersiously that runs on a "Pot legalization" platform plank... Dave Yates Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 09:55:53 2003 From: "Jeff Wisecarver" To: richallmc@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: security Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 09:55:45 -0400 Were you talking about from the street or on a sidewalk? ----------- Jeffrey C. Wisecarver jeff_wisecarver@XXXXXX Home (703)780-5421 Cell (703)786-4723 '89 RED ----Original Message Follows---- From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: security Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 09:16:12 -0400 I talked to one of Arlington's finest this morning and he said it was fine to run a chain around a lamp post or street sign to secure a motorcycle. _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 10:04:59 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 07:04:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Floating Chevy To: DC Cycles REMARKABLE! http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20030724/od_uk_nm/oukoe_odd_cubans_1 ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 10:30:37 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 07:30:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Scratch Subject: RE: Floating Chevy To: DCC 2 things come immediately to mind: 1. What a wast of a great machine! 2. El Garago Del Monster? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- REMARKABLE! http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20030724/od_uk_nm/oukoe_odd_cubans_1 ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 10:33:10 2003 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: security Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 10:33:02 -0400 street >From: "Jeff Wisecarver" >To: richallmc@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: security >Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 09:55:45 -0400 > >Were you talking about from the street or on a sidewalk? > > > >----------- >Jeffrey C. Wisecarver >jeff_wisecarver@XXXXXX >Home (703)780-5421 >Cell (703)786-4723 >'89 RED > > > > > >----Original Message Follows---- >From: "rich hall" >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: security >Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 09:16:12 -0400 > >I talked to one of Arlington's finest this morning and he said it was fine >to run a chain around a lamp post or street sign to secure a motorcycle. > >_________________________________________________________________ >Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > >_________________________________________________________________ >Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 10:36:09 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Mark Kitchell" , "DC Cycles" Subject: Re: Floating Chevy Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 10:35:24 -0400 Yeah, saw that. What's even more remarkable is that our screwed up laws require the Coast Guard to send these people back to Castro's Worker's Paradise/Island Gulag, unless they make to shore, then they can stay. Dumb. -Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Kitchell > REMARKABLE! > > http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20030724/od_uk_nm/oukoe_od d_cubans_1 > > ===== > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 10:44:03 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 07:44:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Scratch Subject: RE: Floating Chevy To: DCC Oh! Oh! I've got another one!! How did that Chevy truck sink after the Coast guard "sent it to the bottom?" LIKE A ROCK... ============================ 2 things come immediately to mind: 1. What a wast of a great machine! 2. El Garago Del Monster? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- REMARKABLE! http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20030724/od_uk_nm/oukoe_odd_cubans_1 ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 10:44:56 2003 From: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" To: "'Perry Coleman'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Thursday night in Rockville Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 10:44:40 -0400 I got to B&N @ 9pm and there was a lot of bikes there. I saw an old friend (he is a retired DC m/c cop) a real cool guy to ride with. We went for a ride down GW Parkway then to Haines (sp) point then around dc back to B&N then home. It was an awesome ride. We have to all meet sometime so I can put some faces with emails. -----Original Message----- From: Perry Coleman [mailto:perrycoleman@XXXXXX] Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 9:33 AM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Thursday night in Rockville I'm sorry we missed it. The wife and I rode up towards Frederick, had dinner and then rode over towards Mt. Airy and then on back down to Gaithersburg. Got back to the house about 8:45, parked the bikes, got out of our gear and then remembered about B&N. We didn't feel up to going back out at that time. We'll try again another week... Perry >From: Wayne Edelen >To: >Subject: RE: Thursday night in Rockville >Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 22:53:18 -0400 (EDT) > >On Thu, 24 Jul 2003, wayne@XXXXXX wrote: > > > I was planning to ride tonight, I'll make a route that puts us around > > Starbucks (B&N?) at 8:30pm. > > > > -- Wayne > >Met up with Scott, Frank, Paul, Nick and a few others from the list >tonight. Nice hanging out and even with all the bsing, we still rode >about 75 miles. > >-- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ > _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 10:47:45 2003 From: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" To: "'Paul Wilson'" , Mark Kitchell , DC Cycles Subject: RE: Floating Chevy Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 10:47:32 -0400 You should be able to stay if you can make something like a big truck float. Thanks now I got that song in my head "like a rock" -----Original Message----- From: Paul Wilson [mailto:pawilson@XXXXXX] Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 10:35 AM To: Mark Kitchell; DC Cycles Subject: Re: Floating Chevy Yeah, saw that. What's even more remarkable is that our screwed up laws require the Coast Guard to send these people back to Castro's Worker's Paradise/Island Gulag, unless they make to shore, then they can stay. Dumb. -Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Kitchell > REMARKABLE! > > http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20030724/od_uk_nm/oukoe_od d_cubans_1 > > ===== > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 10:54:15 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 10:54:07 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Floating Chevy To: DC Cycles >Yeah, saw that. What's even more remarkable is that our >screwed up laws require the Coast Guard to send these people >back to Castro's Worker's Paradise/Island Gulag, unless they >make to shore, then they can stay. Dumb. [Dave] As someone pointed out already, these guys ought to be guests on Monster Garage... Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 11:13:21 2003 From: To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: OT: Need to sell a monitor Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 11:13:14 -0400 If anyone needs a 21" NEC Monitor in like new condition, ping me off list. It's big, it's heavy and definately something you don't want to bungee down on the back of your bike. But it's really nice and I need to get rid of it. Located in Herndon "by gawd" Virginnie... I'd like to get as close to $200 as possible. cheers, -aki From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 11:25:31 2003 Subject: Re: OT: Need to sell a monitor From: Carl Schelin To: adamme1@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 25 Jul 2003 11:21:15 -0400 On Fri, 2003-07-25 at 11:13, adamme1@XXXXXX wrote: > If anyone needs a 21" NEC Monitor in like new condition, ping me off list. > It's big, it's heavy and definately something you don't want to bungee down > on the back of your bike. But it's really nice and I need to get rid of it. > I'd use tie-downs :-) > Located in Herndon "by gawd" Virginnie... > > I'd like to get as close to $200 as possible. > Sorry, I'm just here for the smart remarks :-) > cheers, > -aki Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 11:53:03 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 11:54:17 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Greedy bast*#ds Actually it appears it was Richard Nixon according to some: http://www.salon.com/news/special/drug_war/?CP=SAL&DN=110 Others think it was Reagan, escalated by Bush Sr. (I suspect this may be a more credible source): http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-180es.html Of course none of these folks were around when the first drugs were banned in the USA. Marijuana was outlawed in the 1930s, and alcohol was banned in that time frame too...though later made legal again when it was found that the ban was doing more harm than good (sort of like today with other drugs). The more recent folks were just the ones who came up with the catchy new name for prohibition and shifted the focus to cocaine and other such things. I even found one Biblical reference to an anti-drug statement, so anti-drug messages are not exactly recent. -- Mike At 06:30 AM 7/25/03 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote: >War on Drugs was not a liberal program, but one of >Reagan/Bush Sr. > > >--- matthew patton wrote: >> Here is a "truism" >> >> "Liberalism always generates the exact opposite of >> it's stated intent." >> >> Now granted conservatives play tax games too but the >> typical liberal >> democrat only believes that more money will >> miraculously turn around a >> program that has failed every single year it's >> tried. Come to think of >> it, certain high-ranking DISA (defense information >> systems agency) also >> think along such lines, too. >> >> War on drugs? War on poverty? War on >> (non-affordable) medical >> insurance? Not a bloody thing they do does anything >> but make the >> society overall worse than before. >> >> ===== >> * Love, not time, heals all wounds. >> >> * No one is perfect until you fall in love with >> them. And then when they aren't perfect anymore, >> love makes them perfect again. >> >> * Everyone wants to live on top of the mountain, but >> all the happiness and growth occurs while you're >> climbing it >> >> * You can not forgive unless you first love. >> >> __________________________________ >> Do you Yahoo!? >> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site >> design software >> http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com >> > > >===== > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software >http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 12:14:49 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 11:57:55 -0400 To: DC Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Floating Chevy At 07:04 AM 7/25/03 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote: >REMARKABLE! > >http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20030724/od_uk_nm/oukoe_o dd_cubans_1 I'm not sure whether it's more remarkable that someone would try that, or that they were making such good speed! 8 mph? That's not bad at all! -- Mike **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 12:14:54 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 11:59:47 -0400 To: Scratch , DCC From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: Floating Chevy At 07:30 AM 7/25/03 -0700, Scratch wrote: >2 things come immediately to mind: > >1. What a wast of a great machine! > >2. El Garago Del Monster? I was thinking more like "El Junkyardo Waro"...they've actually done that one on the show, with one team using a very similar idea. I wonder if Cuba is picking up our TV broadcasts from satellite? -- Mike **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 12:16:43 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 12:16:36 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Greedy bast*#ds To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Actually it appears it was Richard Nixon according to some: > >http://www.salon.com/news/special/drug_war/?CP=SAL&DN=110 > >Others think it was Reagan... > >http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-180es.html > >Of course none of these folks were around when the first >drugs were banned in the USA. Marijuana was outlawed in the >1930s, and alcohol was banned in that time frame >too...though later made legal again when it was found that >the ban was doing more harm than good [Dave] People who are 'high' behave stupidly, and if that is there choice, in the privacy of their own home, more power to them. But when their stupidity is thrust upon me, f@ck them. It particularly offends me as a motorcyclist that someone could well be driving while either, drunk, high or both, and get slapped on the wrist and out once again driving the next day if they're caught. I'm sure someone will chime in with how pot is 'less damaging to brain cells than alcohol' ... riiiiight.... Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 12:20:54 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 09:20:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Greedy bast*#ds To: Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Actually, it is less dangerous to society. No one beats their wife while high, kicks the kids, etc. while stoned. 99% of the negative impact of pot is due to its illegality (see Prohibition). People who are high should not drive, period. Why the distiction on the substance from you Dave? --- Dave Yates wrote: > >Actually it appears it was Richard Nixon according > to some: > > > >http://www.salon.com/news/special/drug_war/?CP=SAL&DN=110 > > > >Others think it was Reagan... > > > >http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-180es.html > > > >Of course none of these folks were around when the > first > >drugs were banned in the USA. Marijuana was > outlawed in the > >1930s, and alcohol was banned in that time frame > >too...though later made legal again when it was > found that > >the ban was doing more harm than good > > [Dave] People who are 'high' behave stupidly, and > if that is > there choice, in the privacy of their own home, more > power to > them. But when their stupidity is thrust upon me, > f@ck > them. It particularly offends me as a motorcyclist > that > someone could well be driving while either, drunk, > high or > both, and get slapped on the wrist and out once > again driving > the next day if they're caught. > I'm sure someone will chime in with how pot is > 'less > damaging to brain cells than alcohol' ... > > riiiiight.... > > > Dave Yates > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 12:29:17 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 12:29:11 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: Greedy bast*#ds At 12:20 PM 7/25/2003, Mark Kitchell wrote: >Actually, it is less dangerous to society. No one >beats their wife while high, kicks the kids, etc. >while stoned. 99% of the negative impact of pot is >due to its illegality (see Prohibition). Wrong. I know (from experience) that people who get high often go through radical mood swings and often mistreat their children - not always by beating or physical abuse, but mental abuse and neglect. They also blow their money on pot, which may be artificially expensive because it is illegal. They associate with criminals when they buy their pot, and they place narcotics in the home where their children can possibly find them and use them at early ages. It is an instant high, and it affects every person in a different way. Friends in college that smoked one day were complete idiots the next day, with a little residue on the second day as well. This was a universal truth. I've been around it enough to know that I don't respect anyone that does it. They aren't smart enough to stimulate themselves in other ways without getting high. /personal opinion >People who are high should not drive, period. Why the >distiction on the substance from you Dave? ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 12:36:41 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 12:37:56 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Greedy bast*#ds At 12:16 PM 7/25/03 -0400, Dave Yates wrote: >[Dave] People who are 'high' behave stupidly, Personally I consider getting 'high' in the first place stupid. It's a dangerous world, and I want all the faculties evolution has found necessary, ready and working! >and if that is >there choice, in the privacy of their own home, more power to >them. Or in the public of a place dedicated to such things, or at a friend's house with permission, or in the wilds where they won't bother anyone, or... >But when their stupidity is thrust upon me, f@ck them. I agree, but the solution isn't to ban drugs, it's to ban doing harm to others...regardless of the reason. Being "high" is not an excuse, it's an explanation...and not one that removes responsibility. If you failed to take sufficient precautions to avoid foreseeable harm to others by your recreational drug use (or anything else you are doing), then you are negligent, and that's something those who are harmed, or the government, can take to court. Personally I don't care what form of stupidity causes someone to hit me while riding. Makes no difference to me if they were "high", drunk, tired, distracted by cell phones or just stupid. Ok, on second thought stupid isn't something they can control, so maybe that's a reason to prohibit them being out without supervision rather than charged with negligence. Whoever was supposed to be watching them was the negligent one. >It particularly offends me as a motorcyclist that >someone could well be driving while either, drunk, high or >both, and get slapped on the wrist and out once again driving >the next day if they're caught. That offends me whether as a motorcyclist, car driver or pedestrian...but I don't limit the offenses to being drunk or high. "Impaired" is a better term, as it covers lots of things that are currently more or less legal, such as driving after being up for 36 hours straight. It also covers those who are "impaired by birth or fate", but in those cases I don't blame them, but their keepers. > I'm sure someone will chime in with how pot is 'less >damaging to brain cells than alcohol' ... >riiiiight.... It probably is...alcohol is known to kill brain cells, as well as putting a strain on the liver and other organs. It's toxic...that's why you get a "buzz". Arguing how many brain cells die with each exposure isn't worthwhile though...both are bad, but the laws we have to fight them are worse. We figured that out with alcohol in the 30s and repealed the prohibition on it (except for kids...no problem with that at all from here), but we don't seem able to figure it out with other drugs, so our rights continue to erode and our government continues to grow in size, power and cost...along with the criminal base that is fueled by the illegal nature of a desired (however foolishly) product. -- Mike **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 12:45:33 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 09:45:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Greedy bast*#ds To: Mike Bartman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX I do not want to argue to relative danger of pot vs whatever. My point is all drugs are destructive but the most destructive aspect of illegal drugs are their illegality, not their toxicity. The damage of the 'War on Drugs' to society outweighs the negative impact of those drugs. The level of hypocrisy is also a problem. Alcohol and tobacco can be very bad for your health, and can destroy those around you, yet they are legal. --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 12:16 PM 7/25/03 -0400, Dave Yates wrote: > > >[Dave] People who are 'high' behave stupidly, > > Personally I consider getting 'high' in the first > place stupid. It's a > dangerous world, and I want all the faculties > evolution has found > necessary, ready and working! > > >and if that is > >there choice, in the privacy of their own home, > more power to > >them. > > Or in the public of a place dedicated to such > things, or at a friend's > house with permission, or in the wilds where they > won't bother anyone, or... > > >But when their stupidity is thrust upon me, f@ck > them. > > I agree, but the solution isn't to ban drugs, it's > to ban doing harm to > others...regardless of the reason. Being "high" is > not an excuse, it's an > explanation...and not one that removes > responsibility. If you failed to > take sufficient precautions to avoid foreseeable > harm to others by your > recreational drug use (or anything else you are > doing), then you are > negligent, and that's something those who are > harmed, or the government, > can take to court. > > Personally I don't care what form of stupidity > causes someone to hit me > while riding. Makes no difference to me if they > were "high", drunk, tired, > distracted by cell phones or just stupid. Ok, on > second thought stupid > isn't something they can control, so maybe that's a > reason to prohibit them > being out without supervision rather than charged > with negligence. > Whoever was supposed to be watching them was the > negligent one. > > >It particularly offends me as a motorcyclist that > >someone could well be driving while either, drunk, > high or > >both, and get slapped on the wrist and out once > again driving > >the next day if they're caught. > > That offends me whether as a motorcyclist, car > driver or pedestrian...but I > don't limit the offenses to being drunk or high. > "Impaired" is a better > term, as it covers lots of things that are currently > more or less legal, > such as driving after being up for 36 hours > straight. It also covers those > who are "impaired by birth or fate", but in those > cases I don't blame them, > but their keepers. > > > I'm sure someone will chime in with how pot is > 'less > >damaging to brain cells than alcohol' > ... > >riiiiight.... > > It probably is...alcohol is known to kill brain > cells, as well as putting a > strain on the liver and other organs. It's > toxic...that's why you get a > "buzz". > > Arguing how many brain cells die with each exposure > isn't worthwhile > though...both are bad, but the laws we have to fight > them are worse. We > figured that out with alcohol in the 30s and > repealed the prohibition on it > (except for kids...no problem with that at all from > here), but we don't > seem able to figure it out with other drugs, so our > rights continue to > erode and our government continues to grow in size, > power and cost...along > with the criminal base that is fueled by the illegal > nature of a desired > (however foolishly) product. > > -- Mike > > **************************************************************************** > * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered > Obfuscation Obliterated * > * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled > Opinions Offered * > * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined > Smiles Stimulated * > *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* > * "We do it all! No job too small! No > price too high! * > **************************************************************************** > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 13:10:27 2003 From: "Rob Keiser" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Attn VFR folks - WDGAH7 is approaching! Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:10:18 -0400 Thanks for the reminder, Paul. Unfortunately, a couple of us local VFR pilots (Herb, Justin, and myself)won't be able to go as we are Moto-Crewing the Face of America Bicycle ride from NYC to the Pentagon that weekend. Have a great time for all of us! Rob '98 VFR800 From: "Paul Wilson" To: Subject: Attn VFR folks - WDGAH7 is approaching! Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 09:22:22 -0400 That's the 7th Annual "We Don't Give A Hoot," the annual gathering in Lebanon, NH, the weekend after Labor Day, Sept. 13-14. A great time to see New England, after the school vacation Winnebago pilots have gone home and the leaf peepers have yet to come out. I'll be heading up on Friday, probably. You don't *have* to ride a VFR, but it may be a little nauseating to hear the faithful waxing on about the glories of the Almighty VFR. ;-) Paul in DC, 95 VFR _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 13:23:57 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 10:23:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Weaver Subject: Re: Greedy bast*#ds To: Troutman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Please see comments below: --- Troutman wrote: > radical mood swings > mistreat their children > mental abuse and neglect > They also blow their money on [it] > They associate with criminals > place [drugs] in the home where their children can > possibly find them and > use them at early ages. > It is an instant high, and > it affects every person > in a different way. > Friends in college that [used] > one day were complete > idiots the next day, with a little residue on the > second day as well. All of this applies equally (and moreso in some cases) to alcohol except for the part about associating with criminals to buy it. THAT's only necessary because it's illegal. You made Mark's point for him. > I've been around it enough to know that I don't > respect anyone that does > it. They aren't smart enough to stimulate > themselves in other ways without > getting high. Again, same could be said about beer. Do you disrespect everyone who drinks beer because they "couldn't stimulate themselves in other ways"? > /personal opinion /another personal opinion Chris Weaver __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 13:30:48 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:30:44 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: Greedy bast*#ds At 01:23 PM 7/25/2003, Christopher Weaver wrote: >All of this applies equally (and moreso in some cases) >to alcohol except for the part about associating with >criminals to buy it. THAT's only necessary because >it's illegal. You made Mark's point for him. So - are you making a pro-pot stand, or just attacking my points for the hell of it? Mark's point appeared to be that pot smokers don't do those things - my point is that they can and do. Pot isn't a harmless drug. > > > I've been around it enough to know that I don't > > respect anyone that does > > it. They aren't smart enough to stimulate > > themselves in other ways without > > getting high. > >Again, same could be said about beer. Do you >disrespect everyone who drinks beer because they >"couldn't stimulate themselves in other ways"? Drinking a couple of beers doesn't get you zonked. Drinking a 6 pack may. Getting drunk doesn't earn my respect either. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 13:38:50 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:40:01 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: War on Drugs (was: Re: Greedy bast*#ds) At 01:30 PM 7/25/03 -0400, Troutman wrote: >At 01:23 PM 7/25/2003, Christopher Weaver wrote: >>Again, same could be said about beer. Do you >>disrespect everyone who drinks beer because they >>"couldn't stimulate themselves in other ways"? > >Drinking a couple of beers doesn't get you zonked. Drinking a 6 pack >may. Neither does smoking a joint, though smoking a bag probably will. The point isn't that pot is harmless...it isn't. The point is that it's not all that different from alcohol, so why is one legal, and the other isn't? The point is also that the illegality of illegal drugs is their most harmful aspect to society as a whole. I'm not in favor of legalizing drugs because drugs are good. I'm in favor of it because anti-drug laws are bad. -- Mike "I wouldn't use recreational drugs if they were legal...and free" Bartman -- **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 13:42:04 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:42:02 -0400 To: Mike Bartman From: Troutman Subject: Re: War on Drugs (was: Re: Greedy bast*#ds) Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 01:40 PM 7/25/2003, Mike Bartman wrote: >The point isn't that pot is harmless...it isn't. The point is that it's >not all that different from alcohol, so why is one legal, and the other isn't? > >The point is also that the illegality of illegal drugs is their most >harmful aspect to society as a whole. > >I'm not in favor of legalizing drugs because drugs are good. I'm in favor >of it because anti-drug laws are bad. Don't expect me to follow a thread and post based on previous posts - I'll continue to take emails out of context and badger you with them. Like just now, you said "pot is harmless" and "drugs are good". ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they would never expect it -- Jack Handey From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 13:43:17 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:57:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Mike Bartman Cc: Subject: ACCKKK! Re: War on Drugs (was: Re: Greedy bast*#ds) On Fri, 25 Jul 2003, Mike Bartman wrote: > -- Mike "I wouldn't use recreational drugs if they were legal...and free" > Bartman -- Guys, please stop changing subjects or maybe we can agree on a political tag for the subject... I can't update my procmail filters quickly enough to send them off into lala land. Why don't you all take the political discussions to a more appropriate forum? There are meeeellions of them out there. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 13:45:11 2003 From: "Jeannette Zell" To: mike@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Greedy bast*#ds Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:33:08 -0400 Wow, look what I've been missing! I've been so busy throwing away massive amounts of e-mails telling me that I can grow my penis longer for "her" pleasure that I've missed this fun argument! *sits up to listen* - Jeannette '86 VFR 700 F2 http://www.gingerdc9.com >From: Troutman >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: Greedy bast*#ds >Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:30:44 -0400 > >At 01:23 PM 7/25/2003, Christopher Weaver wrote: >>All of this applies equally (and moreso in some cases) >>to alcohol except for the part about associating with >>criminals to buy it. THAT's only necessary because >>it's illegal. You made Mark's point for him. > >So - are you making a pro-pot stand, or just attacking my points for the >hell of it? Mark's point appeared to be that pot smokers don't do those >things - my point is that they can and do. Pot isn't a harmless drug. > >> >> > I've been around it enough to know that I don't >> > respect anyone that does >> > it. They aren't smart enough to stimulate >> > themselves in other ways without >> > getting high. >> >>Again, same could be said about beer. Do you >>disrespect everyone who drinks beer because they >>"couldn't stimulate themselves in other ways"? > >Drinking a couple of beers doesn't get you zonked. Drinking a 6 pack may. >Getting drunk doesn't earn my respect either. > > > >___________________________________________ > Mike Troutman > http://www.troutman.org/vfr > 1997 Honda VFR 750 > AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ > NMA http://www.motorists.org > > _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 13:45:46 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 10:45:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: ACCKKK! Re: War on Drugs (was: Re: Greedy bast*#ds) To: Wayne Edelen , Mike Bartman Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Wayne: This list has ALWAYS had political discussions, at least for the 5+ years I have been here. Whether its guns, drugs, DC politics, I think it makes for interesting discussion. ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 13:46:30 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Mark Kitchell , Mike Bartman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Greedy bast*#ds Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 12:47:31 -0500 The best are the new marijuana commercails out where the gov't pretty much lies about marijuana. Again they try to use scare tactics and not the truth. People complain about Canada de-criminalizing marijuana and needing to lock down the borders to stop smugglers. Well I bet you didn't know marijuana is decriminalized in NY state. Any amount under an ounce is a civil fine only. Same as what canada is trying to do. Why waste a lot of time and money puttng someone through a criminal trial for something they probaly won't result in jail time anyway. I am sure we could argue every point, but of all the drugs to launch a media campaign against why pick marijuana? It's not addective and there are a lot of worse drugs out there like Cocaine, Herion, E, Meth, Crack that are all highly addictive. I realized a lot of people think marijuana is a gateway drug. In all my experiences I can say I have probaly met maybe 2-3 people who smoked marijuana and ended up doing worse drugs and I have met hundreds of people who smoke pot. If anything I have seen alcohol ruin more peoples lives than marijuana. Rob On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 09:45:30 -0700 (PDT), Mark Kitchell wrote > I do not want to argue to relative danger of pot vs > whatever. My point is all drugs are destructive but > the most destructive aspect of illegal drugs are their > illegality, not their toxicity. The damage of the > 'War on Drugs' to society outweighs the negative > impact of those drugs. > > The level of hypocrisy is also a problem. Alcohol and > tobacco can be very bad for your health, and can > destroy those around you, yet they are legal. -- Rob Sharp SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 13:48:32 2003 From: "Perry Coleman" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: ACCKKK! Re: War on Drugs (was: Re: Greedy bast*#ds) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:48:24 -0400 Wayne, Taking the discussion elsewhere would be the more appropriate choice... Perry >From: Wayne Edelen >To: Mike Bartman >CC: >Subject: ACCKKK! Re: War on Drugs (was: Re: Greedy bast*#ds) >Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:57:14 -0400 (EDT) > >On Fri, 25 Jul 2003, Mike Bartman wrote: > > > -- Mike "I wouldn't use recreational drugs if they were legal...and >free" > > Bartman -- > >Guys, please stop changing subjects or maybe we can agree on a >political tag for the subject... I can't update my procmail filters >quickly enough to send them off into lala land. > >Why don't you all take the political discussions to a more appropriate >forum? There are meeeellions of them out there. > >-- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ > _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 13:49:43 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 14:03:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: ACCKKK! Re: War on Drugs (was: Re: Greedy bast*#ds) On Fri, 25 Jul 2003, Mark Kitchell wrote: > This list has ALWAYS had political discussions, at > least for the 5+ years I have been here. Whether its > guns, drugs, DC politics, I think it makes for > interesting discussion. I really don't mind the offtopic posts, but this is supposed to be a motorcycle based discussion. Once a topic has gone on for 100s of messages, I think it's safe to say that it should be taken offline. I'm sure that if I checked my procmail log, it would show the same 3-4 people responding. Again, how 'bout a tag in the subject like like "hey this crap!" that we can all use to /dev/null the messages? :-) I feel bad for the digest-ers. -- Wayne From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 13:55:23 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Wayne Edelen , Subject: Re: ACCKKK! Re: War on Drugs (was: Re: Greedy bast*#ds) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 12:56:24 -0500 How about the subject tag: NMC : subject blah blah blah NMC = no motorcycle content. People can filter it out and still allows for OT stuff. Arguing about taxes isn't motorcycle related either but people put up with it. So if people kept the topics to just motorcycle content this list would be a lonely place. As it is this is one of my slowest email lists. also I think that being able to talk to with people you already know and have history with, about these topics is more fun than having a different list for every topic. Rob On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 14:03:41 -0400 (EDT), Wayne Edelen wrote > On Fri, 25 Jul 2003, Mark Kitchell wrote: > > > This list has ALWAYS had political discussions, at > > least for the 5+ years I have been here. Whether its > > guns, drugs, DC politics, I think it makes for > > interesting discussion. > > I really don't mind the offtopic posts, but this is supposed to be a > motorcycle based discussion. Once a topic has gone on for 100s of > messages, I think it's safe to say that it should be taken offline. > I'm sure that if I checked my procmail log, it would show the same 3- > 4 people responding. > > Again, how 'bout a tag in the subject like like "hey this crap!" > that we can all use to /dev/null the messages? :-) I feel bad for the > digest-ers. > > -- Wayne -- Rob Sharp SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 13:59:09 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:59:06 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: ACCKKK! Re: War on Drugs (was: Re: Greedy bast*#ds) At 01:56 PM 7/25/2003, Rob Sharp wrote: >Arguing about taxes >isn't motorcycle related either but people put up with it. Ahhh, but arguing about taxes you pay on your bike IS on topic. And relevant to me. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they would never expect it -- Jack Handey From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 14:00:41 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 11:00:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: ACCKKK! Re: War on Drugs (was: Re: Greedy bast*#ds) To: Rob Sharp , Wayne Edelen , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Don't we have Non-Moto already? This topic at hand was non-moto from the beginning I think..... --- Rob Sharp wrote: > How about the subject tag: > > NMC : subject blah blah blah > > NMC = no motorcycle content. > > People can filter it out and still allows for OT > stuff. Arguing about taxes > isn't motorcycle related either but people put up > with it. So if people kept > the topics to just motorcycle content this list > would be a lonely place. As > it is this is one of my slowest email lists. > > also I think that being able to talk to with people > you already know and have > history with, about these topics is more fun than > having a different list for > every topic. > > > Rob > > On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 14:03:41 -0400 (EDT), Wayne > Edelen wrote > > On Fri, 25 Jul 2003, Mark Kitchell wrote: > > > > > This list has ALWAYS had political discussions, > at > > > least for the 5+ years I have been here. > Whether its > > > guns, drugs, DC politics, I think it makes for > > > interesting discussion. > > > > I really don't mind the offtopic posts, but this > is supposed to be a > > motorcycle based discussion. Once a topic has > gone on for 100s of > > messages, I think it's safe to say that it should > be taken offline. > > I'm sure that if I checked my procmail log, it > would show the same 3- > > 4 people responding. > > > > Again, how 'bout a tag in the subject like like > "hey this crap!" > > that we can all use to /dev/null the messages? > :-) I feel bad for the > > digest-ers. > > > > -- Wayne > > > > -- > Rob Sharp > SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 > Network Security Engineer > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 14:05:54 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 14:19:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: ACCKKK! Re: War on Drugs (was: Re: Greedy bast*#ds) On Fri, 25 Jul 2003, Mark Kitchell wrote: > Don't we have Non-Moto already? If we do, it's obviously not working :-) -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 14:10:18 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Troutman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: ACCKKK! Re: War on Drugs (was: Re: Greedy bast*#ds) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:11:19 -0500 Sorry but there was a little of whining and crying about taxes/dmv/mva/income tax ect in the thread that had nothing to do with motorcycles, border line political discussion. I am not saying that it's not useless conversation, but to the contrary, I am trying to make the point that some people find topics relavant that others don't and you know the old saying you can't please all the people all the time. So as a fix, I suggested the NMC subject line tag. Again I am not arguing that the war on drugs is off topic, I am just saying that mark the subject line so you can filter it out, cause it aint going away, unless your gonna start to moderate the list and kick people off the list. Emails with sales ads should be marked with SPAM in the subject header. Hell when I see them on my hawk gt emai list I jump on em to see if something cool is for sale. Regards, Rob > > Ahhh, but arguing about taxes you pay on your bike IS on topic. And > relevant to me. > > ___________________________________________ > Mike Troutman > http://www.troutman.org > > I can picture in my mind a world without war, > a world without hate. > > And I can picture us attacking that world, > because they would never expect it > > -- Jack Handey -- Rob Sharp SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 14:11:21 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Wayne Edelen , Subject: Non-Moto: ACCKKK! Re: War on Drugs (was: Re: Greedy bast*#ds) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:12:22 -0500 Let me be the first to seed the thread with the correct subject line. Rob On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 14:19:52 -0400 (EDT), Wayne Edelen wrote > On Fri, 25 Jul 2003, Mark Kitchell wrote: > > > Don't we have Non-Moto already? > > If we do, it's obviously not working :-) > > -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ -- Rob Sharp SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 14:15:02 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 14:14:59 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: ACCKKK! Re: War on Drugs (was: Re: Greedy bast*#ds) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >On Fri, 25 Jul 2003, Mark Kitchell wrote: > >> Don't we have Non-Moto already? > >If we do, it's obviously not working :-) > >-- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ [Dave] snipped from dc-cycles.org: "20-60 messages a day is typical during warm weather, traffic is sometimes lower in winter, sometimes significantly higher if someone mentions helmet laws, rookie cops, sex, or baklava (or combinations thereof)." A splinter cell, rebel alliance tried to break away from DC- Cycles and form DC-Cycles 2 a couple of years ago. Fortunately, the rebellion was CRUSHED and now all is well with the Empire... ;-) Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 14:18:59 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 14:18:27 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: markkitchell@XXXXXX, wayne@XXXXXX, omni@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: ACCKKK! Re: War on Drugs (was: Re: Greedy bast*#ds) Yep. Just wouldn't be DC Cycles if we didn't. ;-) Scooter (hitting delete now) In a message dated 7/25/2003 12:45:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, markkitchell@XXXXXX writes: > > > Wayne: > > This list has ALWAYS had political discussions, at > least for the 5+ years I have been here. Whether its > guns, drugs, DC politics, I think it makes for > interesting discussion. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 14:21:31 2003 Subject: MC: I see a long trip in your future From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 25 Jul 2003 14:17:16 -0400 Hey, I just ordered Avon tires (or tyres) from discount... and hope to get them in soon (what the heck is "air ground" delivery?) Anyway, I have three sets of tools and Ron Major's Tool Kit list (http://www.ironbutt.com/aow/major_tools.htm). While I won't get everything he has listed (I'm not riding a Goldwing so don't need all the metric stuff), I am using it as a basis for my own list. I'm interested in your favorite long distance tool(s). Another thing would be a pointer to a first-aid kit for bikers. I'm looking at one of the adventure kits. The comprehensive kit (likely way overkill) is running at $125 at its cheapest. I would rather use it as a basis for generating a kit than have a kit for "14 people up to 28 days" :-) Any ideas on a better direction for a kit? Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 14:21:45 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 14:21:32 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: NMC - RAYOR : Re: ACCKKK! Re: War on Drugs (was: Re: Greedy bast*#ds) At 02:14 PM 7/25/2003, Dave Yates wrote: >A splinter cell, rebel alliance tried to break away from DC- >Cycles and form DC-Cycles 2 a couple of years ago. >Fortunately, the rebellion was CRUSHED and now all is well >with the Empire... ;-) THey weren't crushed. I think they all started dating each other, and eventually they got married and stopped caring about two lists. Right Laura and Brian? ;-) Subject line - No Moto Content - Read At Your Own Risk ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they would never expect it -- Jack Handey From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 14:22:35 2003 From: "Perry Coleman" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Non-Moto: ACCKKK! Re: War on Drugs (was: Re: Greedy bast*#ds) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 14:22:27 -0400 Well, then let me be the first to say that it doesn't matter. Talking about marijuana laws, or effects, etc. doesn't belong on the whole list. Unless you want to talk about how hard it is to perform high-chair wheelies while stoned, of course... Take it off-list, please! >From: "Rob Sharp" >To: Wayne Edelen , >Subject: Non-Moto: ACCKKK! Re: War on Drugs (was: Re: Greedy bast*#ds) >Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:12:22 -0500 > >Let me be the first to seed the thread with the correct subject line. > >Rob >On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 14:19:52 -0400 (EDT), Wayne Edelen wrote > > On Fri, 25 Jul 2003, Mark Kitchell wrote: > > > > > Don't we have Non-Moto already? > > > > If we do, it's obviously not working :-) > > > > -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ > > > >-- >Rob Sharp >SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 >Network Security Engineer > _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 14:24:25 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 14:23:59 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: Dave@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: ACCKKK! Re: War on Drugs (was: Re: Greedy bast*#ds) Dum dum dum dum de dum dum de dum "Luke, I AM your father." ;-) Scooter In a message dated 7/25/2003 1:14:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, Dave@XXXXXX writes: > > > >On Fri, 25 Jul 2003, Mark Kitchell wrote: > > > >> Don't we have Non-Moto already? > > > >If we do, it's obviously not working :-) > > > >-- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ > > [Dave] snipped from dc-cycles.org: > "20-60 messages a day is typical during warm weather, traffic > is sometimes lower in winter, sometimes significantly higher > if someone mentions helmet laws, rookie cops, sex, or > baklava > (or combinations thereof)." > > A splinter cell, rebel alliance tried to break away from DC- > Cycles and form DC-Cycles 2 a couple of years ago. > Fortunately, the rebellion was CRUSHED and now all is well > with the Empire... ;-) > > > > Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 14:33:34 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: MC: I see a long trip in your future Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 14:33:27 -0400 > > From: Carl Schelin > Another thing would be a pointer to a first-aid kit for bikers. I'm > looking at one of the adventure kits. The comprehensive kit (likely way > overkill) is running at $125 at its cheapest. I would rather use it as a > basis for generating a kit than have a kit for "14 people up to 28 days" > :-) > > Any ideas on a better direction for a kit? Check out: www.riderwarehouse.com They have three different first aid kits, of varying levels of completeness, aimed at the motorcyclist. Do a search on First Aid and you should see them all. HTH, Bob From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 14:37:41 2003 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: ADMIN: whining about OT postings Content-ID: <2118.1059158259.1@XXXXXX> Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 14:37:39 -0400 From: harry@XXXXXX Time for the periodic reminder: there is no such thing as an "okay" off-topic posting. If you find yourself putting a "non-moto" or "OT" in the subject line, that should be a clue to you that you shouldn't be imposing this message upon a captive audience of 300 motorcyclists. These things bad: - whining about lawyers, liberals, conservatives, etc., in a context not specific to motorcycling - pontificating on political or socio-economic matters not directly related to motorcycling - buying/selling anything not related to motorcycling - requests for computer tech support - joke o' the day not related to motorcycling - seeking/offering employment not related to motorcycling - almost every posting that contains the phrase "I couldn't resist" - forwarding of "forward this to everyone you know" messages - anything else that isn't at least remotely related to motorcycling These things fine: - _personal_ (not business) buying/selling related to motorcyling - requests for motorcycle tech support - anything else at least remotely related to motorcycling -harry From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 14:39:28 2003 Subject: Re: MC: I see a long trip in your future From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 25 Jul 2003 14:35:13 -0400 On Fri, 2003-07-25 at 14:33, Bob Meyer wrote: > > > > From: Carl Schelin > > > Another thing would be a pointer to a first-aid kit for bikers. I'm > > looking at one of the adventure kits. The comprehensive kit (likely way > > overkill) is running at $125 at its cheapest. I would rather use it as a > > basis for generating a kit than have a kit for "14 people up to 28 days" > > :-) > > > > Any ideas on a better direction for a kit? > > Check out: www.riderwarehouse.com > > They have three different first aid kits, of varying levels of completeness, aimed at the motorcyclist. Do a search on First Aid and you should see them all. > Ahh, much better. Any experience with them? > HTH, > Thanks, > Bob > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 14:48:04 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 14:48:01 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: NMC, Non Moto, non spam, OT, WHATEVER Re: Greedy bast*#ds To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I knew someone would take the bait... >>"But when their stupidity is thrust upon me, >> f@ck them. It particularly offends me as a motorcyclist >> that someone could well be driving while either, drunk, >> high or both, and get slapped on the wrist and out once >> again driving the next day if they're caught." >> I'm sure someone will chime in with how pot is >> 'less damaging to brain cells than alcohol' ... >> >> riiiiight.... >Actually, it is less dangerous to society. No one >beats their wife while high, kicks the kids, etc. >while stoned. 99% of the negative impact of pot is >due to its illegality (see Prohibition). > >People who are high should not drive, period. Why the >distiction on the substance from you Dave? [Dave] Well Mark, I would have to say that it is my personal and professional ( albeit limited ) experience. 1st, pot is a hallucinogen, alcohol is a depressant. Pot makes people behave stupidly because their reality is altered substantially, whereas intoxication by alcohol numbs your judgment, mood, and motor skills. A few years ago, I worked for a local company called CSC (event staff at concerts around the area). As well as seeing the show, I got to eject those who misbehaved. Most of these miscreants where impaired on one substance or antother, wreaking of pot, alcohol or both. Roughly, 9 of 10 ejected were impaired. Of those I would guess... 7 of 10 were high, the rest drunk. I personally witnessed - high concertgoer injure half a dozen people + himself swan diving off the upper deck at RFK. He was paralyzed when he left the arena, don't know what happened to him, one guy offered the cops some pot as he was being arrested, several people wandering around in a state that could best be described as zombie like, others trying their best to imitate all order of animals, and then there were the ones that peed their pants ( pot smokers, not drinkers )... These are just the ones we caught and ejected, the ones who weren't caught - a lot them got to drive home. Since I don't answer domestic violence calls, I can't accurately speak to whether or not pot users are less violent than alcohol users, or either substances respective abusers, but once they're out in public, they're a burden on society no matter how you look at it. At least in a state of inebriation by alcohol a person's reality isn't so altered that they are not functional. A proportional amount of most CDS will render a person senseless. (inebriation meaning impaired to the point of legal intoxication for driving purposes, not alcohol poisoning...). Again, in the confines of your own home, knock yourself out, just don't bring that $hit near me. Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 14:49:25 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: RC Motorcycle Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:50:27 -0500 Check out this, I want one. http://steliosh.net/rcmoto/video.html -- Rob Sharp SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 14:51:22 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 14:51:06 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: MC: I see a long trip in your future On 25 Jul 2003, Carl Schelin wrote: > Date: 25 Jul 2003 14:17:16 -0400 > From: Carl Schelin > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: MC: I see a long trip in your future > > Hey, > > I just ordered Avon tires (or tyres) from discount... and hope to get > them in soon (what the heck is "air ground" delivery?) Probably similar to Fedex Express aka Federal Express Express? Or something like. > Anyway, I have three sets of tools and Ron Major's Tool Kit list > (http://www.ironbutt.com/aow/major_tools.htm). While I won't get > everything he has listed (I'm not riding a Goldwing so don't need all > the metric stuff), I am using it as a basis for my own list. > > I'm interested in your favorite long distance tool(s). Here is a list that about covers everything: http://users.net1plus.com/holbrook/camping.htm Much other good moto stuff available at: http://users.net1plus.com/holbrook/mark.htm -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 14:56:15 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 11:56:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Weaver Subject: Re: NMC, Non Moto, non spam, OT, WHATEVER Re: Greedy bast*#ds To: Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Dave Yates wrote: > 1st, pot is > a hallucinogen, alcohol is a depressant. Nope. Pot is a depressant just like alcohol. It is *not* a hallucinogen. Chris Weaver __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 14:57:53 2003 From: "Perry Coleman" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: MC: I see a long trip in your future Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 14:57:46 -0400 I bought one from Riderwarehouse. I think it is the Sport-Touring model. It wasn't too expensive. It comes in a nice nylon pack that zips into a cube about 3"x4"x6". Haven't had to use much of it, but it is pretty complete. Perry >From: Bob Meyer >Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX >To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: MC: I see a long trip in your future >Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 14:33:27 -0400 > > > > > > From: Carl Schelin > > > Another thing would be a pointer to a first-aid kit for bikers. I'm > > looking at one of the adventure kits. The comprehensive kit (likely way > > overkill) is running at $125 at its cheapest. I would rather use it as a > > basis for generating a kit than have a kit for "14 people up to 28 days" > > :-) > > > > Any ideas on a better direction for a kit? > >Check out: www.riderwarehouse.com > >They have three different first aid kits, of varying levels of >completeness, aimed at the motorcyclist. Do a search on First Aid and you >should see them all. > >HTH, > >Bob > _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 14:57:57 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 11:57:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: NMC, Non Moto, non spam, OT, WHATEVER Re: Greedy bast*#ds To: Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Completely non-scientific bullshit. You have no idea what they really did, drug-wise. You can do better than personal anecdotes dave. --- Dave Yates wrote: > I knew someone would take the bait... > > >>"But when their stupidity is thrust upon me, > >> f@ck them. It particularly offends me as a > motorcyclist > >> that someone could well be driving while either, > drunk, > >> high or both, and get slapped on the wrist and > out once > >> again driving the next day if they're caught." > > >> I'm sure someone will chime in with how pot is > >> 'less damaging to brain cells than alcohol' > ... > >> > >> riiiiight.... > > > >Actually, it is less dangerous to society. No one > >beats their wife while high, kicks the kids, etc. > >while stoned. 99% of the negative impact of pot is > >due to its illegality (see Prohibition). > > > >People who are high should not drive, period. Why > the > >distiction on the substance from you Dave? > > [Dave] Well Mark, I would have to say that it is my > personal > and professional ( albeit limited ) experience. > 1st, pot is > a hallucinogen, alcohol is a depressant. Pot makes > people > behave stupidly because their reality is altered > substantially, whereas intoxication by alcohol numbs > your > judgment, mood, and motor skills. A few years ago, > I worked > for a local company called CSC (event staff at > concerts > around the area). As well as seeing the show, I got > to eject > those who misbehaved. Most of these miscreants > where > impaired on one substance or antother, wreaking of > pot, > alcohol or both. Roughly, 9 of 10 ejected were > impaired. Of > those I would guess... 7 of 10 were high, the rest > drunk. I > personally witnessed - high concertgoer injure half > a dozen > people + himself swan diving off the upper deck at > RFK. He > was paralyzed when he left the arena, don't know > what > happened to him, one guy offered the cops some pot > as he was > being arrested, several people wandering around in a > state > that could best be described as zombie like, others > trying > their best to imitate all order of animals, and then > there > were the ones that peed their pants ( pot smokers, > not > drinkers )... These are just the ones we caught and > ejected, > the ones who weren't caught - a lot them got to > drive home. > Since I don't answer domestic violence calls, I > can't > accurately speak to whether or not pot users are > less violent > than alcohol users, or either substances respective > abusers, > but once they're out in public, they're a burden on > society > no matter how you look at it. At least in a state > of > inebriation by alcohol a person's reality isn't so > altered > that they are not functional. A proportional amount > of most > CDS will render a person senseless. (inebriation > meaning > impaired to the point of legal intoxication for > driving > purposes, not alcohol poisoning...). > > Again, in the confines of your own home, knock > yourself out, > just don't bring that $hit near me. > > > > Dave Yates > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 14:58:23 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:12:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: RC Motorcycle On Fri, 25 Jul 2003, Rob Sharp wrote: > Check out this, I want one. > > http://steliosh.net/rcmoto/video.html Ok, where do we order? :-) -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 15:02:20 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 12:02:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Weaver Subject: Re: RC Motorcycle To: Rob Sharp , DC-Cycles Buy it locally: http://www.hobbyworks.com/default.cfm?Content=fullproduct&hs=rc&ID=498004 Chris Weaver --- Rob Sharp wrote: > Check out this, I want one. > > http://steliosh.net/rcmoto/video.html > > -- > Rob Sharp > SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 > Network Security Engineer > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 15:02:34 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 12:02:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: NMC, Non Moto, non spam, OT, WHATEVER Re: Greedy bast*#ds To: Christopher Weaver , Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX You are both right. It is both a depressant and a mild hallucinogen. --- Christopher Weaver wrote: > > --- Dave Yates wrote: > > 1st, pot is > > a hallucinogen, alcohol is a depressant. > > Nope. Pot is a depressant just like alcohol. It is > *not* a hallucinogen. > > Chris Weaver > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site > design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 15:03:25 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Perry Coleman" , Subject: Re: MC: I see a long trip in your future Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:10:05 -0400 www.riderwearhouse.com works better, y'all. Paul in DC, 95 VFR ----- Original Message ----- From: Perry Coleman > I bought one from Riderwarehouse. I > > Perry > > >From: Bob Meyer > > > > > > > > From: Carl Schelin > > > :-) > > > > > > Any ideas on a better direction for a kit? > > > >Check out: www.riderwarehouse.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 15:05:41 2003 Reply-To: From: "Jim McGonigle" To: "'DC-Cycles'" Subject: RE: RC Motorcycle Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:04:29 -0400 Yeah, right. $1k for that or a pocket bike for twice that. Thanks, but I'll take the pocketbike... > -----Original Message----- > From: Christopher Weaver [mailto:chris_vtr@XXXXXX] > Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 3:02 PM > To: Rob Sharp; DC-Cycles > Subject: Re: RC Motorcycle > > > Buy it locally: > > http://www.hobbyworks.com/default.cfm?Content=fullproduct&hs=r > c&ID=498004 > > Chris Weaver > > --- Rob Sharp wrote: > > Check out this, I want one. > > > > http://steliosh.net/rcmoto/video.html > > > > -- > > Rob Sharp > > SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 > > Network Security Engineer > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 15:06:16 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 12:06:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Weaver Subject: Re: RC Motorcycle To: Rob Sharp , DC-Cycles This place has it cheaper: http://www.internet-rc.com/15scalnitpow.html Chris __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 15:09:28 2003 Subject: Re: MC: I see a long trip in your future From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 25 Jul 2003 15:05:13 -0400 On Fri, 2003-07-25 at 14:51, Daniel H. Brown wrote: > On 25 Jul 2003, Carl Schelin wrote: > > Here is a list that about covers everything: > > http://users.net1plus.com/holbrook/camping.htm > Jeeze louise, now I know why people take trailers ;-) > Much other good moto stuff available at: > > http://users.net1plus.com/holbrook/mark.htm > Mucho gracias. > > > -- > Dan Brown > brown@XXXXXX > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 15:11:29 2003 From: "Perry Coleman" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: MC: I see a long trip in your future Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:11:21 -0400 I *thought* it was "wear" not "ware" but went with what was in the original message... Perry >From: "Paul Wilson" >To: "Perry Coleman" , >Subject: Re: MC: I see a long trip in your future >Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:10:05 -0400 > >www.riderwearhouse.com works better, y'all. > >Paul in DC, 95 VFR >----- Original Message ----- >From: Perry Coleman > > > > I bought one from Riderwarehouse. I > > > Perry > > > > >From: Bob Meyer > > > > > > > > > > > From: Carl Schelin > > > > > :-) > > > > > > > > Any ideas on a better direction for a kit? > > > > > >Check out: www.riderwarehouse.com > > _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 15:14:25 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 12:14:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Weaver Subject: RE: RC Motorcycle To: jmcgonigle@XXXXXX, "'DC-Cycles'" It was $600, not a grand. Is this more your speed? http://www.theyoyostore.com/rcmicminmot.html :^) Chris --- Jim McGonigle wrote: > > Yeah, right. $1k for that or a pocket bike for > twice that. Thanks, but > I'll take the pocketbike... __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 15:17:58 2003 Reply-To: From: "Jim McGonigle" To: "'Christopher Weaver'" , "'DC-Cycles'" Subject: RE: RC Motorcycle Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:16:45 -0400 Yeah, baby... $9.99! ;) It's $600 for the bike, $150 for the engine and a bunch for the controller. Sounds close to a grand to me. -Jim > -----Original Message----- > From: Christopher Weaver [mailto:chris_vtr@XXXXXX] > Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 3:14 PM > To: jmcgonigle@XXXXXX; 'DC-Cycles' > Subject: RE: RC Motorcycle > > > It was $600, not a grand. Is this more your speed? > > http://www.theyoyostore.com/rcmicminmot.html > > :^) > Chris > > --- Jim McGonigle wrote: > > > > Yeah, right. $1k for that or a pocket bike for > > twice that. Thanks, but > > I'll take the pocketbike... > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 15:19:36 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Christopher Weaver , jmcgonigle@XXXXXX, "'DC-Cycles'" Subject: RE: RC Motorcycle Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 14:20:35 -0500 600 bux for the bike with no radio or engine, engine was 169 and most radios are like 200 bux or so right? Plus tax and tags :) If you could get a decent RC bike for like 300-500 bux that would be more my speed. I am just a poor IT nerd. Rob On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 12:14:22 -0700 (PDT), Christopher Weaver wrote > It was $600, not a grand. Is this more your speed? > > http://www.theyoyostore.com/rcmicminmot.html > > :^) > Chris > > --- Jim McGonigle wrote: > > > > Yeah, right. $1k for that or a pocket bike for > > twice that. Thanks, but > > I'll take the pocketbike... > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com -- Rob Sharp SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 15:20:15 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:34:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: MC: I see a long trip in your future On Fri, 25 Jul 2003, Paul Wilson wrote: > www.riderwearhouse.com works better, y'all. > > Paul in DC, 95 VFR > > > I bought one from Riderwarehouse. I > > > Perry www.riderwearhouse.com and www.riderwarehouse.com send you to the same place. :-) -- Wayne From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 15:21:05 2003 Subject: Re: MC: I see a long trip in your future From: Carl Schelin To: Perry Coleman Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 25 Jul 2003 15:16:51 -0400 Actually both URL's work. I typed wearhouse but also tried warehouse and both worked. So there. Carl On Fri, 2003-07-25 at 15:11, Perry Coleman wrote: > I *thought* it was "wear" not "ware" but went with what was in the original > message... > > Perry > > >From: "Paul Wilson" > >To: "Perry Coleman" , > >Subject: Re: MC: I see a long trip in your future > >Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:10:05 -0400 > > > >www.riderwearhouse.com works better, y'all. > > > >Paul in DC, 95 VFR > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: Perry Coleman > > > > > > > I bought one from Riderwarehouse. I > > > > Perry > > > > > > >From: Bob Meyer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Carl Schelin > > > > > > > :-) > > > > > > > > > > Any ideas on a better direction for a kit? > > > > > > > >Check out: www.riderwarehouse.com > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 15:22:51 2003 From: "Perry Coleman" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: RC Motorcycle Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:22:40 -0400 For that kind of money, I could get a pretty nice pistol. Oops! Wrong list... Perry >From: "Rob Sharp" >To: Christopher Weaver , jmcgonigle@XXXXXX, >"'DC-Cycles'" >Subject: RE: RC Motorcycle >Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 14:20:35 -0500 > >600 bux for the bike with no radio or engine, engine was 169 and most >radios >are like 200 bux or so right? Plus tax and tags :) > >If you could get a decent RC bike for like 300-500 bux that would be more >my >speed. I am just a poor IT nerd. > >Rob > >On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 12:14:22 -0700 (PDT), Christopher Weaver wrote > > It was $600, not a grand. Is this more your speed? > > > > http://www.theyoyostore.com/rcmicminmot.html > > > > :^) > > Chris > > > > --- Jim McGonigle wrote: > > > > > > Yeah, right. $1k for that or a pocket bike for > > > twice that. Thanks, but > > > I'll take the pocketbike... > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > > >-- >Rob Sharp >SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 >Network Security Engineer > _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 15:26:23 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:26:19 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: NMC, Non Moto, non spam, OT, WHATEVER Re: Greedy bast*#ds To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Nope. Pot is a depressant just like alcohol. It is >*not* a hallucinogen. > >Chris Weaver [Dave] Websters: "marijuana n 1: a strong-smelling plant from whose dried leaves a number of euphoriant and **hallucinogenic** drugs are prepared [syn: marihuana, ganja, pot, grass, dope, weed, gage, sess, sens, skunk, Mary-Jane, Cannabis sativa] 2: the dried leaves of the hemp plant; smoked or chewed for euphoric effect [syn: cannabis, ganja, pot, grass, marihuana, dope, weed, gage, sess, sens, smoke, skunk, Mary Jane]" Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 15:44:15 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:39:01 -0400 To: Troutman From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: War on Drugs (was: Re: Greedy bast*#ds) Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 01:42 PM 7/25/03 -0400, Troutman wrote: >At 01:40 PM 7/25/2003, Mike Bartman wrote: >>The point isn't that pot is harmless...it isn't. The point is that it's >>not all that different from alcohol, so why is one legal, and the other isn't? >> >>The point is also that the illegality of illegal drugs is their most >>harmful aspect to society as a whole. >> >>I'm not in favor of legalizing drugs because drugs are good. I'm in favor >>of it because anti-drug laws are bad. > >Don't expect me to follow a thread and post based on previous posts - I'll >continue to take emails out of context and badger you with them. > >Like just now, you said "pot is harmless" and "drugs are good". No I didn't, and you aren't doing what you said. You didn't take a post out of context, you took a few words out of the middle of a sentence. That's fairly pathetic if you are trying to argue, but mildly humorous if you were trying to be funny. I don't know you well enough (yet) to tell which it is...should I assume that lack of a "smiley" means it was pathetic, or just that you don't like emoticons? :^) -- Mike **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 15:44:16 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:41:18 -0400 To: Wayne Edelen From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: ACCKKK! Re: War on Drugs (was: Re: Greedy bast*#ds) Cc: At 01:57 PM 7/25/03 -0400, Wayne Edelen wrote: >On Fri, 25 Jul 2003, Mike Bartman wrote: > >> -- Mike "I wouldn't use recreational drugs if they were legal...and free" >> Bartman -- > >Guys, please stop changing subjects or maybe we can agree on a >political tag for the subject... I can't update my procmail filters >quickly enough to send them off into lala land. How about any post that isn't about bikes or riding having an "[OT]" in the subject line somewhere? (for "Off Topic"). >Why don't you all take the political discussions to a more appropriate >forum? There are meeeellions of them out there. A very reasonable request. Sorry to have added to the brew-ha-ha. :^) -- Mike "will try to stay on topic better in future" Bartman -- **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 15:44:16 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:45:29 -0400 To: Wayne Edelen , From: Mike Bartman Subject: [OT] Re: ACCKKK! Re: War on Drugs (was: Re: Greedy bast*#ds) At 02:19 PM 7/25/03 -0400, Wayne Edelen wrote: >On Fri, 25 Jul 2003, Mark Kitchell wrote: > >> Don't we have Non-Moto already? > >If we do, it's obviously not working :-) > >-- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ Ummm...this thread about what's on topic for the list doesn't seem to have any motorcycle content...I've marked it appropriately according to my proposed solution... -- Mike "all seriousness aside" Bartman -- **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 15:49:34 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:49:09 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: War on Drugs (was: Re: Greedy bast*#ds) At 03:39 PM 7/25/2003, Mike Bartman wrote: > >Like just now, you said "pot is harmless" and "drugs are good". > >No I didn't, and you aren't doing what you said. You didn't take a post >out of context, you took a few words out of the middle of a sentence. >That's fairly pathetic if you are trying to argue, but mildly humorous if >you were trying to be funny. I don't know you well enough (yet) to tell >which it is...should I assume that lack of a "smiley" means it was >pathetic, or just that you don't like emoticons? :^) Humorous. I don't mind emoticons, but I'm trying to get away from them. You should be able to say what you mean without them. In this case, I was saying heavily sarcastic things for their humor value. Where is Dick Anker today? And now that Harry has come out of the closet to shut us up, I will do just that. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 15:51:24 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 12:51:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Weaver Subject: RE: RC Motorcycle To: Rob Sharp , jmcgonigle@XXXXXX, "'DC-Cycles'" The bike comes with an engine. I think the listing for 169 was if you wanted an extra engine. If you look in the bike specs, you'll see the engine there. A lot of money, still. Chris --- Rob Sharp wrote: > 600 bux for the bike with no radio or engine, engine > was 169 and most radios > are like 200 bux or so right? Plus tax and tags :) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 15:53:30 2003 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: ACCKKK! Re: War on Drugs (was: Re: Greedy bast*#ds) Content-ID: <810.1059162807.1@XXXXXX> Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:53:27 -0400 From: harry@XXXXXX >How about any post that isn't about bikes or riding having an "[OT]" in the >subject line somewhere? (for "Off Topic"). That's fine, as long as you then post it to a mailing list whose charter is "Discussion not pertaining to motorcycling in the DC area", where it will be on-topic, and thus not an annoyance to the majority of subscribers. -harry From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 15:56:59 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:56:55 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: NMC, Non Moto, non spam, OT, WHATEVER Re: Greedy bast*#ds To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Completely non-scientific bullshit. You have no idea >what they really did, drug-wise. > >You can do better than personal anecdotes dave. [Dave] You're just mad because you took the bait, but even more so because I answered, Mark. It no doubt infuriates you that I did not attempt to insult or denigrate you or your position. Your pathetic attempts at baiting listers here are well known, let's not forget your invitation to Gimer to "step outside" all because he got the better of you in an email. Next, you'll no doubt respond that I likely ejected one race disproportionately higher than the others, seeking to drop the race bomb yet again. Inevitably, you'll attempt to profane harder, louder and get the best shot in online regardless of whatever position you are or are not advocating. You asked why I drew the distinction, I answered. In your question, you did not ask for scientific evidence that pot was more or less dangerous. You scoff at my distinction as unscientific bull****, yet, you make the assertion that I had no idea at all "what drugs they were" using. As you were not there, that assertion is not only unscientific, and incorrect, but hypocritical of you to accuse because you yourself in this very post I respond to, do the very same thing and expect nobody here to call you on it. You will not change my opinion based on my previous observations by simply asserting your position is simply right and there is no possibility that any other opinion has even the slightest shred of viability. Nor will you earn any list brownie points for attempting to out insult, out goad & outprofane me or the rest of the list for that matter. I'll be disappointed if you don't go for the last word here yet again, Mark. Dave >> >> >>"But when their stupidity is thrust upon me, >> >> f@ck them. It particularly offends me as a >> motorcyclist >> >> that someone could well be driving while either, >> drunk, >> >> high or both, and get slapped on the wrist and >> out once >> >> again driving the next day if they're caught." >> >> >> I'm sure someone will chime in with how pot is >> >> 'less damaging to brain cells than alcohol' >> ... >> >> >> >> riiiiight.... >> >> >> >Actually, it is less dangerous to society. No one >> >beats their wife while high, kicks the kids, etc. >> >while stoned. 99% of the negative impact of pot is >> >due to its illegality (see Prohibition). >> > >> >People who are high should not drive, period. Why >> the >> >distiction on the substance from you Dave? >> >> [Dave] Well Mark, I would have to say that it is my >> personal >> and professional ( albeit limited ) experience. >> 1st, pot is >> a hallucinogen, alcohol is a depressant. Pot makes >> people >> behave stupidly because their reality is altered >> substantially, whereas intoxication by alcohol numbs >> your >> judgment, mood, and motor skills. A few years ago, >> I worked >> for a local company called CSC (event staff at >> concerts >> around the area). As well as seeing the show, I got >> to eject >> those who misbehaved. Most of these miscreants >> where >> impaired on one substance or antother, wreaking of >> pot, >> alcohol or both. Roughly, 9 of 10 ejected were >> impaired. Of >> those I would guess... 7 of 10 were high, the rest >> drunk. I >> personally witnessed - high concertgoer injure half >> a dozen >> people + himself swan diving off the upper deck at >> RFK. He >> was paralyzed when he left the arena, don't know >> what >> happened to him, one guy offered the cops some pot >> as he was >> being arrested, several people wandering around in a >> state >> that could best be described as zombie like, others >> trying >> their best to imitate all order of animals, and then >> there >> were the ones that peed their pants ( pot smokers, >> not >> drinkers )... These are just the ones we caught and >> ejected, >> the ones who weren't caught - a lot them got to >> drive home. >> Since I don't answer domestic violence calls, I >> can't >> accurately speak to whether or not pot users are >> less violent >> than alcohol users, or either substances respective >> abusers, >> but once they're out in public, they're a burden on >> society >> no matter how you look at it. At least in a state >> of >> inebriation by alcohol a person's reality isn't so >> altered >> that they are not functional. A proportional amount >> of most >> CDS will render a person senseless. (inebriation >> meaning >> impaired to the point of legal intoxication for >> driving >> purposes, not alcohol poisoning...). >> >> Again, in the confines of your own home, knock >> yourself out, >> just don't bring that $hit near me. >> >> >> >> Dave Yates >> > > >===== > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software >http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 15:59:28 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:58:20 -0400 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: MC: I see a long trip in your future At 02:17 PM 7/25/03 -0400, Carl Schelin wrote: >Hey, > > I just ordered Avon tires (or tyres) from discount... and hope to get >them in soon (what the heck is "air ground" delivery?) Well, see, the FedEx plane makes a low pass over your house... :^) > Another thing would be a pointer to a first-aid kit for bikers. I'm >looking at one of the adventure kits. The comprehensive kit (likely way >overkill) is running at $125 at its cheapest. I would rather use it as a >basis for generating a kit than have a kit for "14 people up to 28 days" >:-) I got one for hiking at Galyans. It's also probably overkill, but it's got everything from aspirin to splints, and it's about half the size of a kid's lunch box (or about the size of a large moto-battery) and weighs about 4 lbs. Don't recall the cost exactly, but it was well under $100. What sort of accidents are you likely to need to treat? I can picture scrapes, burns, minor cuts, not so minor cuts, eye contamination (dust, bugs, or other small bits of stuff that shouldn't be in there), digestive distress, and minor sprains, bruises and general aches and pains. Anything else that wouldn't result in the appearance of professionals with transportation? For that sort of stuff the kit I have would work fine. It has burn cream, bandaids, bandages and gauze, antiseptic, pressure bandages, ibuprofin, antacid, diarrhea cure, etc., as well as disposable gloves, scissors, etc.. I'll have to look, but I think it even has a little eye wash in it. If you are, or have a passenger who is, female, a bit of emergency feminine hygiene equipment might be useful on occasion, just in case they manage to forget or something about the trip changes the usual timing. What you expect to treat will tell a lot about what you need to have. So does your expertise in using it. I wouldn't carry a field surgery kit as I wouldn't have a clue what to do with one, other than maybe carve some trinkets around the campfire... :^) -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 16:09:34 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:00:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Jordan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: First Aid Kits (was: I see a long trip in your future) Generic first aid kits are just that - generic. They will take care of about 90% of the things that one typically runs into. For a bike first aid kit, I would include something to address abrasions, as most generics won't have anything bigger than a 2X2 gauze pad. That won't be enough for even light road rash. Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 16:13:52 2003 Subject: Re: MC: I see a long trip in your future From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 25 Jul 2003 16:09:36 -0400 On Fri, 2003-07-25 at 15:58, Mike Bartman wrote: > At 02:17 PM 7/25/03 -0400, Carl Schelin wrote: > >Hey, > > > > I just ordered Avon tires (or tyres) from discount... and hope to get > >them in soon (what the heck is "air ground" delivery?) > > Well, see, the FedEx plane makes a low pass over your house... :^) > And they _are_ tires so should just bounce, right? > > Another thing would be a pointer to a first-aid kit for bikers. I'm > >looking at one of the adventure kits. The comprehensive kit (likely way > >overkill) is running at $125 at its cheapest. I would rather use it as a > >basis for generating a kit than have a kit for "14 people up to 28 days" > >:-) > > I got one for hiking at Galyans. It's also probably overkill, but it's got > everything from aspirin to splints, and it's about half the size of a kid's > lunch box (or about the size of a large moto-battery) and weighs about 4 > lbs. Don't recall the cost exactly, but it was well under $100. > > What sort of accidents are you likely to need to treat? I'm not sure. Basically I was looking for a small kit type thing or a list so I can pick and choose. That's why I didn't want to get the comprehensive one. I'm not sure what I'd do with dental filler that couldn't be handled at a later date. Rather than spend $150 on a kit that only an EMT would need, I can look at the list and make sure I have the basics using the list for ideas. Tweezers for example. Those splinters are a pain ;-) > I wouldn't carry a field surgery kit as I > wouldn't have a clue what to do with one, other than maybe carve some > trinkets around the campfire... :^) > That could be fun though. Thanks for the ideas. > -- Mike Bartman > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 16:14:12 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:14:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Dream Motorcycle Related Job To: DC Cycles What is your dream job involving motorcycles? Test rider at Ducati? Beer-can-holder-tester at Harley? Mine is to work the Tour de France, Giro d'Italia, Tour de Suisse, Tour d'Espana, etc. as one of the motorcycle escorts. Carrying team gear, cameramen, etc. Brian Roach cannot answer this as he already has his dream job. ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 16:18:29 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:09:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Jordan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Summit Point: August 2-3 >Is anyone heading out to summit point in >two weekends to watch the WERA Nationals? Laura, Are you suggesting that we actually meet face to face?? This was tried a few years ago. We actually spent about two summers riding as a group - not entirely sure why we went back to twisting keyboards instead of throttles... Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 16:19:45 2003 Subject: Re: Dream Motorcycle Related Job From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 25 Jul 2003 16:15:30 -0400 On Fri, 2003-07-25 at 16:14, Mark Kitchell wrote: > What is your dream job involving motorcycles? Test > rider at Ducati? Beer-can-holder-tester at Harley? > None. I'm not dexterious enough with tools to get a job as a wrench and they don't pay as well :-) My gamer (paper, pencil and dice) hobby combined with my graphic arts job turned into a computer hobby which turned into a job. I used to think it'd be cool to work as a typesetter for TSR or as a Sysadmin for O'Reilly. Now it's kinda cool working with Unix and Cisco here at NASA. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 16:21:53 2003 Subject: Spam From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 25 Jul 2003 16:17:39 -0400 I find it amusing that the more I post on dc-cycles, the more spam I receive. Soon after posting the "I see a long trip" message, I received a spam. Two more quickly followed. After a day where I post messages to dc-cycles, I'll get 20 to 40 Spams overnight. Kind of a cause and effect. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 16:24:19 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 16:20:38 -0400 To: Wayne Edelen , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: RC Motorcycle At 03:12 PM 7/25/03 -0400, Wayne Edelen wrote: >On Fri, 25 Jul 2003, Rob Sharp wrote: > >> Check out this, I want one. >> >> http://steliosh.net/rcmoto/video.html > >Ok, where do we order? :-) What the heck is it? Looks like a giant flyswatter with a couple of bikes... -- Mike "don't download zip files from places I don't know" Bartman -- **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 16:36:44 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 16:37:58 -0400 To: Troutman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: NMC, [OT]: Communication (was: Re: War on Drugs (was: Re: Greedy bast*#ds)) At 03:49 PM 7/25/03 -0400, Troutman wrote: >At 03:39 PM 7/25/2003, Mike Bartman wrote: >> >Like just now, you said "pot is harmless" and "drugs are good". >> >>No I didn't, and you aren't doing what you said. You didn't take a post >>out of context, you took a few words out of the middle of a sentence. >>That's fairly pathetic if you are trying to argue, but mildly humorous if >>you were trying to be funny. I don't know you well enough (yet) to tell >>which it is...should I assume that lack of a "smiley" means it was >>pathetic, or just that you don't like emoticons? :^) > >Humorous. Whew! Glad to hear that! :^) >I don't mind emoticons, but I'm trying to get away from them. I tried to cut down once, but I found that other people were a lot less funny. They read everything with the worst possible intent, rather than the intent it was written with. The emoticons seem to help lube their humor gears a bit and get the chuckles unstuck in questionable cases. >You should be able to say what you mean without them. Very true, but as with your post above, not while keeping it short when writing for people who don't know you and are judging only by what you write. You have to provide some context, and emoticons seem like an efficient way to do it in this sort of medium. If we had better grammar to convey tone or mood it might be different (or maybe emoticons are an early form of that?). If we even all had the same culture it would be different, as we'd have common references to play off of, but that's not the case either. I've been on the 'net since '93, and on FidoNet before that for several years, and I've seen all sorts of avoidable misunderstandings. I'll take what I can get to communicate what I want to say as close to the way I meant it as I can. Anyone who doesn't try to meet me half way I try to ignore, but most people are trying, they just need a hint. >And now that Harry has come out of the closet to shut us up, I will do just >that. Me too, though this one is sort of on-topic...at least as much as the complaints about off-topic posts where anyway. :^) -- Mike "tried to give fair warning in the subject" Bartman -- **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 16:37:42 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 16:37:31 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Stupid DC Cycles Survey I prepared a stupid little survey for any of you trapped at work and waiting to get on the bike and ride home. It should prove interesting. Survey http://www.opinionpower.com/Surveys/37607116.html Graphed Results http://www.opinionpower.com/results.cgi?id=37607116 Text Results http://www.opinionpower.com/textResults.cgi?id=37607116 ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they would never expect it -- Jack Handey From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 16:43:21 2003 Subject: Tune-up help From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 25 Jul 2003 16:39:07 -0400 Hey, My cube partner here has a '97 CBRXX (1100). Normally he takes it to Coleman's for the tune up but I guess there's been problems or they're not doing them anymore. In either case, he's looking for someone or a business where he can get a tune-up for his bike. He thanks you in advance. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 16:44:46 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: NMC, Non Moto, non spam, OT, WHATEVER Re: Greedy bast*#ds Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:45:47 -0500 Damnit. I thought we weren't gonna talk about this stuff on the mailing list. Believe me I am itching to chime in some more, but I the list owner said to stop. Rob On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:26:19 -0400, Dave Yates wrote > >Nope. Pot is a depressant just like alcohol. It is > >*not* a hallucinogen. > > > >Chris Weaver > > [Dave] Websters: > "marijuana > > n 1: a strong-smelling plant from whose dried leaves a number > of euphoriant and **hallucinogenic** drugs are prepared > [syn: marihuana, ganja, pot, grass, dope, weed, gage, sess, > sens, skunk, Mary-Jane, Cannabis sativa] 2: the dried leaves > of the hemp plant; smoked or chewed for euphoric effect [syn: > cannabis, ganja, pot, grass, marihuana, dope, weed, gage, > sess, sens, smoke, skunk, Mary Jane]" > > Dave Yates -- Rob Sharp SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 16:45:10 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 16:46:07 -0400 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: MC: I see a long trip in your future At 04:09 PM 7/25/03 -0400, Carl Schelin wrote: >On Fri, 2003-07-25 at 15:58, Mike Bartman wrote: >Rather than spend $150 on a kit that only an EMT would need, I can look >at the list and make sure I have the basics using the list for ideas. >Tweezers for example. Those splinters are a pain ;-) Yep, makes sense to me. I have a Swiss Army Knife I got at Hoffritz years ago that has tweezers as well as a magnifying glass. Got it after I had to dig a splinter out of the palm of my hand with a broken-off paperclip once. I've used it many times since...really good investment of $75. Just hangs on my belt in a leather holder I got at a surplus store. Doesn't have any pliers though, so I also have a Leatherman Tool. >> I wouldn't carry a field surgery kit as I >> wouldn't have a clue what to do with one, other than maybe carve some >> trinkets around the campfire... :^) >> >That could be fun though. Thanks for the ideas. The Swiss Army Knife has blades for that too, so I still don't need the surgical kit. :^) You're welcome! Thanks for making me think about it...I should plan something for my new bike when I get it (I'm hoping in the next couple of weeks, but we'll see). -- Mike **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 16:50:31 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Mike Bartman , Troutman Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: 80% moto content /20% non moto content: Re: War on Drugs (was: Re: Greedy bast*#ds) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:51:32 -0500 Man taking his quote out of context is border line liberal. Oh I did not just go that! Bad Rob! Bad! Well you guys were on the list arguing I took the oportunity to take a 70 mile spin on the scooter. :) It's a great day to ride. While I was out I saw like 7 bikes on west willard road about a mile east of fishers road. I waved but no one waved back, except the last guy who was on a red CBR/R6 maybe. Anyhow I turned onto fishers to pick up 109 and I saw a county sheriff on his way to meet up with the group. Hope no one got pinched by the man. Regards, Rob > > > >Like just now, you said "pot is harmless" and "drugs are good". > > No I didn't, and you aren't doing what you said. You didn't take a post > out of context, you took a few words out of the middle of a sentence. > That's fairly pathetic if you are trying to argue, but mildly > humorous if you were trying to be funny. I don't know you well > enough (yet) to tell which it is...should I assume that lack of a > "smiley" means it was pathetic, or just that you don't like > emoticons? :^) > > -- Mike > > **************************************************************************** > * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation > Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled > Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options > Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *------------------------------ > --------------------------------------------* * "We do it > all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** -- Rob Sharp SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 16:56:14 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Troutman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Stupid DC Cycles Survey Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:57:15 -0500 The first question adds up to a 160%?? What the heck? Can you choose two answers? Rob On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 16:37:31 -0400, Troutman wrote > I prepared a stupid little survey for any of you trapped at work and > waiting to get on the bike and ride home. It should prove interesting. > > Survey > http://www.opinionpower.com/Surveys/37607116.html > Graphed Results > http://www.opinionpower.com/results.cgi?id=37607116 > Text > Results http://www.opinionpower.com/textResults.cgi?id=37607116 > > ___________________________________________ > Mike Troutman > http://www.troutman.org > > I can picture in my mind a world without war, > a world without hate. > > And I can picture us attacking that world, > because they would never expect it > > -- Jack Handey -- Rob Sharp SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 17:01:07 2003 Subject: Re: Stupid DC Cycles Survey From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 25 Jul 2003 16:56:52 -0400 On Fri, 2003-07-25 at 16:57, Rob Sharp wrote: > The first question adds up to a 160%?? > > What the heck? Can you choose two answers? > Yea, most of them had two answers as far as I'm concerned so I picked two. That's what you get for using checkboxes instead of radio buttons ;-) > Rob > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 20:35:25 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 17:34:56 -0700 (PDT) From: David Fruehwald Subject: Difficult choice To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I'm considering a new bike for touring, the leading candidates are 1) Honda VFR800 Intercepter 2) Suzuki DL1000 (V-Strom) I like these but the lack of dealers for parts and service is a concern 3) Triumph Tiger 4) Triumph Sprint ST No plans to off-road but the size of the Tiger and DL1000 fit me pretty good. I love the Intercepter but I am concerned about ride position not having ridden sportbikes. I want all day comfort and nice handling for twisties. Current ride is Kawasaki ZR-7 which has plenty of power, but is a little short and hurts the knees for all day riding. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 21:44:35 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 21:18:37 -0400 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Bob Meyer Subject: Re: MC: I see a long trip in your future At 02:35 PM 7/25/03 -0400, Carl Schelin wrote: >On Fri, 2003-07-25 at 14:33, Bob Meyer wrote: > > > > > > From: Carl Schelin > > > > > Another thing would be a pointer to a first-aid kit for bikers. I'm > > > looking at one of the adventure kits. The comprehensive kit (likely way > > > overkill) is running at $125 at its cheapest. I would rather use it as a > > > basis for generating a kit than have a kit for "14 people up to 28 days" > > > :-) > > > > > > Any ideas on a better direction for a kit? > > > > Check out: www.riderwarehouse.com > > > > They have three different first aid kits, of varying levels of > completeness, aimed at the motorcyclist. Do a search on First Aid and > you should see them all. > > > >Ahh, much better. Any experience with them? With riderwarehouse? Yes. Excellent folks to do business with. With the specific first aid kits? Not yet. I recently order the mid sized one (sport riders, I think?) Should have it by Monday, so I can let you know what I think after that. Bob Meyer '92 Candy Glory Red ST1100, STOC # 1157 "If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning. " From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 21:44:41 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 21:22:19 -0400 To: "Paul Wilson" , "Perry Coleman" , From: Bob Meyer Subject: Re: MC: I see a long trip in your future At 03:10 PM 7/25/03 -0400, Paul Wilson wrote: >www.riderwearhouse.com works better, y'all. Well, you're almost right. The URL above is the correct company name, but my misspelling goes to the exact same site! Andy Goldfine is one smart fellow. Bob Meyer '92 Candy Glory Red, STOC # 1157 "If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning. " From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 21:49:40 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 21:49:25 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: Stupid DC Cycles Survey Yes - multiple choice. You have to use common sense though - you can't speed up and slam on your brakes ..... At 04:57 PM 7/25/2003, Rob Sharp wrote: >What the heck? Can you choose two answers? ______________________________________ Mike Troutman mike@XXXXXX http://www.troutman.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 21:50:49 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 21:49:34 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX CC: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: MC: I see a long trip in your future > > From: Carl Schelin > > > Another thing would be a pointer to a first-aid kit for bikers. I'm > > looking at one of the adventure kits. The comprehensive kit (likely way > > overkill) is running at $125 at its cheapest. I would rather use it as a > > basis for generating a kit than have a kit for "14 people up to 28 days" > > :-) > > > > Any ideas on a better direction for a kit? Yeah, Wally Mart. Or K-Mart, or any marine store or camping store. Pick a size you like. Mine is about 6" x 6" by 2". Inadequate for open heart surgary but covers any injury I'm willing to look at without fainting :-) Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 22:13:35 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 19:13:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Difficult choice To: David Fruehwald , dc-cycles@XXXXXX My experience with a VFR750 (1991) at 5 foot 10 is its very comfortable on long rides. I do have an aftermarket seat though. --- David Fruehwald wrote: > I'm considering a new bike for touring, the leading > candidates are > > 1) Honda VFR800 Intercepter > 2) Suzuki DL1000 (V-Strom) > > I like these but the lack of dealers for parts and > service is a concern > > 3) Triumph Tiger > 4) Triumph Sprint ST > > No plans to off-road but the size of the Tiger and > DL1000 fit me pretty good. I love the Intercepter > but > I am concerned about ride position not having ridden > sportbikes. I want all day comfort and nice > handling > for twisties. Current ride is Kawasaki ZR-7 which > has > plenty of power, but is a little short and hurts the > knees for all day riding. > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site > design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 22:14:36 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 22:14:02 -0400 Subject: Re: Stupid DC Cycles Survey Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Randy Moran Actually, I do this regularly. I believe this is a valid response. RPM On Friday, July 25, 2003, at 09:49 PM, Troutman wrote: > Yes - multiple choice. You have to use common sense though - you > can't speed up and slam on your brakes ..... > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 22:54:04 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 22:53:17 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: llarson@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Dream Motorcycle Related Job Mark Kitchell wrote: >Mine is to work the Tour de France, Giro d'Italia, Tour de Suisse, Tour d'Espana, etc. as one of the motorcycle escorts. Carrying team gear, cameramen, etc. Vuelta [a] Espana, isn't it? Yup, dream job -- unless you're the driver whose passenger cameraman snagged one of his cables on the handlebars of the lead rider in the breakaway and caused him to fall during the first week this year... 8;) Which brings up a question that's been nagging at me for years: on the climbs, it must be very, very difficult to ride motos that slowly for that long, unless you're one of those Fairfax police slow-riding champions. I've assumed they re-gear the Tour de France motos downward to give them a comfortable cruising range from about 1km/hr on the climbs to 100 km/hr on the descents. Does anyone know for sure? -- Larry From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jul 25 23:35:29 2003 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 23:35:20 -0400 Subject: Re: Tune-up help Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX To: Carl Schelin From: David Cross Try Fast Lane Cycles in Chantilly. Ask for Rick. www.fastlanecycles.com dave On Friday, July 25, 2003, at 04:39 PM, Carl Schelin wrote: > Hey, > > My cube partner here has a '97 CBRXX (1100). Normally he takes it to > Coleman's for the tune up but I guess there's been problems or they're > not doing them anymore. In either case, he's looking for someone or a > business where he can get a tune-up for his bike. > > He thanks you in advance. > > Carl > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jul 26 05:50:30 2003 Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 05:49:17 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: llarson@XXXXXX CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Dream Motorcycle Related Job llarson@XXXXXX wrote: > Mark Kitchell wrote: > > >Mine is to work the Tour de France, Giro d'Italia, > Tour de Suisse, Tour d'Espana, etc. as one of the > motorcycle escorts. Carrying team gear, cameramen, > etc. > > Vuelta [a] Espana, isn't it? > > Yup, dream job -- unless you're the driver whose passenger cameraman > snagged one of his cables on the handlebars of the lead rider in the > breakaway and caused him to fall during the first week this year... 8;) > > Which brings up a question that's been nagging at me for years: on the > climbs, it must be very, very difficult to ride motos that slowly for that > long, unless you're one of those Fairfax police slow-riding champions. I've > assumed they re-gear the Tour de France motos downward to give them a > comfortable cruising range from about 1km/hr on the climbs to 100 km/hr on > the descents. Does anyone know for sure? > > -- Larry A switch off? The moto-crew for AIDSRIDE 5 did that in DC. Group A would zip up to an intersection, block traffic to let the pedal pushers thru while group B did the slao ride thang with the bikes, then we'd switch off - B would haul tail to the next intersection, A would putt. My Harley V-twin seems good at slow ride, better than the fast but torqueless UJMs I've owned, and I get a lot of SR practice in our wonderful traffic. The best crawler bikes I've ridden, other than enduros/dual-sports, have been the Yamaha Virago V-twins - smooth, and those buggers will chuff along so slow the average Virginia slug can outrun it. Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jul 26 06:03:36 2003 Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 06:02:31 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: llarson@XXXXXX CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Dream Motorcycle Related Job llarson@XXXXXX wrote: > Mark Kitchell wrote: > > >Mine is to work the Tour de France, Giro d'Italia, > Tour de Suisse, Tour d'Espana, etc. as one of the > motorcycle escorts. Carrying team gear, cameramen, > etc. I love teaching the BRC - new riders. But then I've always liked teaching (Those that can do, those that can't teach? har har har). At my age and state of semi-retirement, I'd like to work at an M/C shop and also carry the watch out for M/Cs to cage driver's ed classes. I like wrenching too. But my true dream job is to have a 4WD conversion van on the beach and offer on the spot (so to speak) bikini waxing! Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jul 26 07:36:03 2003 Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 07:34:22 -0400 From: avraam jack dectis CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Greedy bast*#ds PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: >Keeping in mind that the rules have changed in MD since 9/11 (and I expect >many other states) and it is now a PAIN IN THE ASS to register you vehicle and >get your license* it could easily take more then 60 days (as it did in my case) >you could be screwed by VA for quite a bit. > What happened on September eleventh? . From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jul 26 07:39:30 2003 Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 07:37:46 -0400 From: avraam jack dectis To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Greedy bast*#ds omni@XXXXXX wrote: > > >9/11 was very serious, and some precautions are warranted, but let's not >get completely stupid about it. > > About what? . > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jul 26 08:28:07 2003 Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 08:26:58 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: avraam jack dectis CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Greedy bast*#ds avraam jack dectis wrote: > PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > > >Keeping in mind that the rules have changed in MD since 9/11 (and I expect > >many other states) and it is now a PAIN IN THE ASS to register you vehicle and > >get your license* it could easily take more then 60 days (as it did in my case) > >you could be screwed by VA for quite a bit. > > > > What happened on September eleventh? Oh my, brain dead! Did you crash your motorcycle while not wearing a helmet? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jul 26 08:53:35 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 08:53:30 EDT Subject: Re: ACCKKK! Re: War on Drugs (was: Re: Greedy bast*#ds) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/25/2003 2:00:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, markkitchell@XXXXXX writes: > This topic at hand was non-moto from the beginning I > think..... It started (me) as a warning to re-register your bike (cage etc.) quickly on moving to a new state to prevent paying VA more property tax then they are entitled to. So it was on topic. It has been amusing to see just how far it meandered off Re: John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jul 26 08:59:22 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 08:59:08 EDT Subject: Re: MC: I see a long trip in your future To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/25/2003 2:21:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cschelin@XXXXXX writes: > Another thing would be a pointer to a first-aid kit for bikers. I have, and carry in the bike at all times a Red Cross kit, small and in its own pouch (it fits in the behind seat cubbyhole and includes a "pocket" CPR mask (added.)) If you want I can try to find a part # on it or you could go to a Red Cross office or website and see what they have. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jul 26 10:20:22 2003 Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 10:20:11 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Dan Brown Subject: Re: Tune-up help All together now... Cross Roads Cycles... At 04:39 PM 7/25/2003 -0400, Carl Schelin wrote: >Hey, > > My cube partner here has a '97 CBRXX (1100). Normally he takes it to >Coleman's for the tune up but I guess there's been problems or they're >not doing them anymore. In either case, he's looking for someone or a >business where he can get a tune-up for his bike. > > He thanks you in advance. > >Carl -- Resist or Serve From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jul 26 11:07:53 2003 From: "Rob Keiser" To: dfruehwald@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Difficult choice Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 10:55:57 -0400 Biased, but I don't think you can go wrong with a VFR. After almost 5 years and 35k + miles I still thoroughly enjoy mine, and a couple week long 2,500 + mile trips have proven that higher mileage rides are no problem comfort wise for me. But there are also a number of modifications you can make, if you so choose. H