From dc-cycles-request Sat Jul 1 00:58:29 2000 From: "Kirt S." To: Subject: Re: You bunch of helmets! RE: dc-cycles digest for 06/29/00 Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 00:58:27 -0400 I'm not attempting to be hypocritical at all. If they want to abolish helmet laws, so be it. I could care less. As far as you argument goes about most americans thinking that motorcycling is stupid, fine...that's their opinion and they are entitled to it, just like I am. However, it is a calculated risk, and I protect myself as much as possible when riding. I wear a DOT and SNELL certified Shoei RF-800 helmet, padded and armored Dainese gloves and Alpinestars roadracing boots, and a *widely* acclaimed two-piece Aerostich Roadcrafter. I am as safe as possible, and don't drive like a nut. My logic isn't danger = stupid. My logic is not taking reasonible precautions in the presence of dangerous acts is stupid. I rock climb, plan on skydiving for my birthday this year, cliff dive (err...and off bridges too), etc. However, I don't do such acts blindly, and plan ahead to try to stay alive for as long as possible. I have no plans, and no desire to die an early death. BTW, it's a fucking opinion, and I've stated that. Chill out. Kirt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew Ehlert" To: "Kirt S." Cc: Sent: Friday, June 30, 2000 5:16 PM Subject: Re: You bunch of helmets! RE: dc-cycles digest for 06/29/00 > i can see you win allot of debates... with your > contradictory logic because on one hand you want to > have freedom of choice.... yet you persist on > upholding laws that take away your choice. > > The majority of Americans would strongly agree that > riding a motorcycle (even with helmet and full body > iron) is extremely dangerous.... and stupid to ride > such machinery in the presents of big metal moving > objects as in cars trucks etc... that will ultimately > win in an event of collision. Having said that.... > according to your logic of danger = stupid AND the > majority of people agree that motorcycling is > extremely dangerous(with the ultimate riding gear).... > then we have no other choice but to legislate a law > that would take away the right to operate a > motorcycle!!!! > > > --- "Kirt S." wrote: > > Freedom of choice = good > > choosing not to wear a helmet = bad > > > > I have access to a shotgun if someone who rides with > > no helmet wants to see > > what happens when their head hits the pavement at > > 60mph... > > > > Retarded might not be the most PC way of expressing > > that thought, however > > even some retarded children wear helmets on a daily > > basis. > > > > Basically what I'm saying is, I don't mourn for > > people who die because they > > are too fucking stupid to take care of themselves. > > So thusly, if you CHOOSE > > to not wear a helmet, you ARE stupid as far as I'm > > concerned. And I'm not > > talking once or twice, or "around the block". This > > is for the people that > > do it on a regular basis (including those that wear > > the utterly useless > > skullcaps and nazi-esque German-style helmets). The > > planet is better > > without them, they are wasting my air, and they are > > giving motorcycling a > > bad name. > > > > My opinions, no more, no less. > > > > Kirt > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Corbett B" > > To: "DC Cycles" > > Sent: Friday, June 30, 2000 10:25 AM > > Subject: Re: You bunch of helmets! RE: dc-cycles > > digest for 06/29/00 > > > > > > > Gosh Kirt, sorry to get your wool in a bunch. > > > > > > I'm a little concerned that you would think > > freedom of > > > choice "retarded." Keep sending in those > > > thought-provoking suggetions. > > > > > > -Corbett > > > > > > --- "Kirt S." wrote: > > > > I wish there was a way to accelerate Darwin's > > > > survivlal of the fittest > > > > theory thingy. we should just group all the > > > > non-helmet wearing retards and > > > > stick them in a one big walled in Wal-Mart > > parking > > > > lot, and shod their bikes > > > > with crappy cheng shin tires. In the rain. > > > > > > > > Kirt > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from > > anywhere! > > > http://mail.yahoo.com/ > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! > http://mail.yahoo.com/ > From dc-cycles-request Sat Jul 1 01:07:41 2000 From: "Kirt S." To: Subject: Re: You bunch of helmets! RE: dc-cycles digest for 06/29/00 Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 01:07:41 -0400 I didn't crash, because I purposely didn't even come close to my normal comfort level and said twisty roads. I took it easy that day, and I've been taking it easy since my brakes haven't been at 100% effectiveness. I also stated that. I know my comfort level, and in my opinion, I think I've approached it only a few times in 5 years of street riding. Normally, I try and stay well below it, and with a passenger the riding is even more sedate. My "unsuspecting passenger" is precisely not that, as she knows full well the dangers of riding on the back of the bike and has seen my scars to prove how badly one can be hurt. She *chooses* to ride, and I've taken steps to insure that she is protected as financially possible. She currently has nice olympia gloves (the best I could find that fit her small hands), a brand new RF-800 that I bought her because my 2 extra helmets are too big for her, and about the heaviest fucking leather jacket I could get. A good set of riding pants are on order, and I actually plan on buying her an aerostich for herself as soon as financially possible. Also, I've never asked for anyones sympathy, so I don't give a shit how anyone feels when and if I die riding a motorcycle. My girlfriend feels the same way. Thusly, that counter-point of yours in invalid. Kirt PS - if anything, the brakes being slightly out of whack on my F4 has made me a better rider, as I'm learning to be even more smooth and have improved my ability to judge corner entry speed and adjust suitably via engine braking and steering quicker. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Gimer" To: "Kirt S." ; Sent: Friday, June 30, 2000 7:40 PM Subject: Re: You bunch of helmets! RE: dc-cycles digest for 06/29/00 > --- "Kirt S." wrote: > > Basically what I'm saying is, I don't mourn for > > people who die because they > > are too fucking stupid to take care of themselves. > > So when you and your [unsuspecting] passenger wreck > because you're cruising around on steep, twisty > mountain roads with admittedly inadequate brakes, can > we feel the same way? > > Talk about a hipocrite! > > > -- > tg > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. > http://invites.yahoo.com/ > From dc-cycles-request Sat Jul 1 02:31:02 2000 Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 23:30:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Ehlert Subject: ---> To: "Kirt S." Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Kirt excellent.... i am glad you do not oppose people trying to abolish frivolous laws(including the helmet law)in the somewhat free USA..... i applaud your safety creed... anyway note to anybody..... what a great riding day!! it was for friday... looks like sat as well. Anybody interested in flying.. i am a flight instructor on the weekends... so if you would also like to make aviation apart of your adventure in your life... give me an email. ok so i have a question...... back to useless laws seeding tyranny instead of freedom .... if the government is so concerned with my self-preservation while operating a motorcycle..... why do they let people smoke cigarettes??????? FREE THINKER.... matt_ehlert@XXXXXX --- "Kirt S." wrote: > I'm not attempting to be hypocritical at all. If > they want to abolish > helmet laws, so be it. I could care less. > > As far as you argument goes about most americans > thinking that motorcycling > is stupid, fine...that's their opinion and they are > entitled to it, just > like I am. However, it is a calculated risk, and I > protect myself as much > as possible when riding. I wear a DOT and SNELL > certified Shoei RF-800 > helmet, padded and armored Dainese gloves and > Alpinestars roadracing boots, > and a *widely* acclaimed two-piece Aerostich > Roadcrafter. I am as safe as > possible, and don't drive like a nut. > > My logic isn't danger = stupid. My logic is not > taking reasonible > precautions in the presence of dangerous acts is > stupid. I rock climb, plan > on skydiving for my birthday this year, cliff dive > (err...and off bridges > too), etc. However, I don't do such acts blindly, > and plan ahead to try to > stay alive for as long as possible. I have no > plans, and no desire to die > an early death. > > BTW, it's a fucking opinion, and I've stated that. > Chill out. > > Kirt > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Matthew Ehlert" > To: "Kirt S." > Cc: > Sent: Friday, June 30, 2000 5:16 PM > Subject: Re: You bunch of helmets! RE: dc-cycles > digest for 06/29/00 > > > > i can see you win allot of debates... with your > > contradictory logic because on one hand you want > to > > have freedom of choice.... yet you persist on > > upholding laws that take away your choice. > > > > The majority of Americans would strongly agree > that > > riding a motorcycle (even with helmet and full > body > > iron) is extremely dangerous.... and stupid to > ride > > such machinery in the presents of big metal moving > > objects as in cars trucks etc... that will > ultimately > > win in an event of collision. Having said that.... > > according to your logic of danger = stupid AND the > > majority of people agree that motorcycling is > > extremely dangerous(with the ultimate riding > gear).... > > then we have no other choice but to legislate a > law > > that would take away the right to operate a > > motorcycle!!!! > > > > > > --- "Kirt S." wrote: > > > Freedom of choice = good > > > choosing not to wear a helmet = bad > > > > > > I have access to a shotgun if someone who rides > with > > > no helmet wants to see > > > what happens when their head hits the pavement > at > > > 60mph... > > > > > > Retarded might not be the most PC way of > expressing > > > that thought, however > > > even some retarded children wear helmets on a > daily > > > basis. > > > > > > Basically what I'm saying is, I don't mourn for > > > people who die because they > > > are too fucking stupid to take care of > themselves. > > > So thusly, if you CHOOSE > > > to not wear a helmet, you ARE stupid as far as > I'm > > > concerned. And I'm not > > > talking once or twice, or "around the block". > This > > > is for the people that > > > do it on a regular basis (including those that > wear > > > the utterly useless > > > skullcaps and nazi-esque German-style helmets). > The > > > planet is better > > > without them, they are wasting my air, and they > are > > > giving motorcycling a > > > bad name. > > > > > > My opinions, no more, no less. > > > > > > Kirt > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Corbett B" > > > To: "DC Cycles" > > > Sent: Friday, June 30, 2000 10:25 AM > > > Subject: Re: You bunch of helmets! RE: dc-cycles > > > digest for 06/29/00 > > > > > > > > > > Gosh Kirt, sorry to get your wool in a bunch. > > > > > > > > I'm a little concerned that you would think > > > freedom of > > > > choice "retarded." Keep sending in those > > > > thought-provoking suggetions. > > > > > > > > -Corbett > > > > > > > > --- "Kirt S." wrote: > > > > > I wish there was a way to accelerate > Darwin's > > > > > survivlal of the fittest > > > > > theory thingy. we should just group all the > > > > > non-helmet wearing retards and > > > > > stick them in a one big walled in Wal-Mart > > > parking > > > > > lot, and shod their bikes > > > > > with crappy cheng shin tires. In the rain. > > > > > > > > > > Kirt > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > > Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access > from > > > anywhere! > > > > http://mail.yahoo.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from > anywhere! > > http://mail.yahoo.com/ > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Sat Jul 1 09:47:13 2000 Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 06:46:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: You bunch of helmets! RE: dc-cycles digest for 06/29/00 To: "Kirt S." , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- "Kirt S." wrote: > I didn't crash, because I purposely didn't even come > close to my normal > comfort level and said twisty roads. I took it easy > that day, and I've been > taking it easy since my brakes haven't been at 100% > effectiveness. I also > stated that. I know my comfort level, and in my > opinion, I think I've > approached it only a few times in 5 years of street > riding. Normally, I try > and stay well below it, and with a passenger the > riding is even more sedate. > My "unsuspecting passenger" is precisely not that, > as she knows full well > the dangers of riding on the back of the bike and > has seen my scars to prove > how badly one can be hurt. She *chooses* to ride, > and I've taken steps to > insure that she is protected as financially > possible. She currently has > nice olympia gloves (the best I could find that fit > her small hands), a > brand new RF-800 that I bought her because my 2 > extra helmets are too big > for her, and about the heaviest fucking leather > jacket I could get. A good > set of riding pants are on order, and I actually > plan on buying her an > aerostich for herself as soon as financially > possible. So you're riding around in a full suit and she's got jeans on? What a guy. Reminds me of somebody I know (and you know who you are!) And yes, she is 'unsuspecting' if she's riding around on the back of your bike without having read your earlier posts regarding your brakes. > Also, I've never asked for anyones sympathy, so I > don't give a shit how > anyone feels when and if I die riding a motorcycle. > My girlfriend feels the > same way. Thusly, that counter-point of yours in > invalid. Sorry....but I don't see it that way. And all that I've gathered from your posts on this subject are the following: 1. For some reason you're really fired up over bikers who don't wear helments. I think your argument is: freedom of choice is a good thing, but only smart people should be able to exercise it. 2. You fit your own definition of 'retard' by taking part in numerous high-risk behaviors. Sorry to be harsh, but I'm just following your logic. > Kirt > > PS - if anything, the brakes being slightly out of > whack on my F4 has made > me a better rider, as I'm learning to be even more > smooth and have improved > my ability to judge corner entry speed and adjust > suitably via engine > braking and steering quicker. Engine braking on a 600cc inline four? I love it. And your brakes aren't 'slightly out of whack' if you post to the list 3 times about how fucking dangerous they are. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom Gimer" > To: "Kirt S." ; > > Sent: Friday, June 30, 2000 7:40 PM > Subject: Re: You bunch of helmets! RE: dc-cycles > digest for 06/29/00 > > > --- "Kirt S." wrote: > > > Basically what I'm saying is, I don't mourn for > > > people who die because they > > > are too fucking stupid to take care of > > > themselves. > > > > So when you and your [unsuspecting] passenger > ? wreck > > because you're cruising around on steep, twisty > > mountain roads with admittedly inadequate brakes, > > can we feel the same way? > > > > Talk about a hipocrite! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Sat Jul 1 10:41:42 2000 From: "Bill Creitz" To: Subject: Maryland roads, continued Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 10:41:17 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01BFE348.E2FC4FC0 Kurt S. and Bryan M., To continue our discussion of Maryland roads, south and west of Frederick... Bryan mentioned MD 77 across Catoctin Mountain and MD 550 from Thurmont to Fort Richie -- great roads, both. There's a spot near Fort Richie that's worth checking out. Approaching the fort gate on 550, turn right (down the hill), left (at the bottom of the hill) on Pennsylvania Road, then at the stop sign go straight onto Pen Mar High Rock Road. At the top of the long upgrade, park in the gravel area where the road takes a sharp left. There is a spectacular overlook here. This is a favorite launching spot for hang gliders (now that's one group that's crazier than motorcyclists!). Leaving Fort Richie, I like to take MD 491 south. It follows the ridge down to Smithsburg. Other good roads south and west of Frederick: Mountville Road, from New Design Road west to Jefferson (SSW of Frederick). MD 383 west from Jefferson. Where MD 383 takes a sharp right, go straight on Gapland Road, through Burkittsville and through Gathland State Park. Burnside Bridge Road: >From MD 67, take Trego Road north. In Mt. Briar (which is just an old house or two), left on Porterstown Road, then immediately bear left on Burnside Bridge Road (caution: there was detour around the best parts of Burnside Bridge Road last month). Trego Mountain Road between Trego and Harpers Ferry Road. Harpers Ferry Road between Sharpsburg and Sandy Hook. The north end of Harpers Ferry Road can be hard to find. On Main Street (MD 34) in Sharpsburg, turn south on Mechanic Street -- it becomes Harpers Ferry Road. Follow the Maryland Scenic Route signs. Sandy Hook gets overrun with picnickers and innertube rafters on summer weekends, so watch for pedestrians. Follow the road -- first under the railroad tracks, then around the end of the mountain and over the railroad tracks. MD 17 between Brunswick and MD 77. I'm looking for suggestions on good roads in the mountains west of Hagerstown. Any ideas? Bill Creitz 98 Road King ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01BFE348.E2FC4FC0 BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 N:Creitz;William;W. FN:Bill Creitz NICKNAME:Bill ORG:Stoneridge Technical Services TITLE:Consultant TEL;WORK;VOICE:301-424-0114 TEL;WORK;FAX:301-424-8971 ADR;WORK:;;707 Carter Road;Rockville;MD;20852 LABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:707 Carter = Road=3D0D=3D0ARockville, MD 20852 X-WAB-GENDER:2 URL: URL:http://www.stoneridgetech.com EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:bcreitz@XXXXXX REV:20000701T144117Z END:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01BFE348.E2FC4FC0-- From dc-cycles-request Sat Jul 1 15:14:39 2000 Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 12:14:29 -0700 (PDT) From: "Collin T. Fagan" Subject: Re: chatterbox To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Raz, Yeah.. even with the 10% that is considerably higher than a lot of retail places... I'll have to bump a note to anita, but I recall her forwarding me two different websites with the price being either $139 or $149.. (I've slept since then)... But with $100 trade in on your old one it's a good deal... not like you'd ever go back to a limited 49MHz unit again after trying FRS. Collin ===== Collin T. Fagan DC-Cycles Racing http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/9350/ Proudly sponsored by: Fast Lane Cycles (www.fastlanecycles.com) Dixie Cycles Bell Helmets, and EBC Brakes __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Sat Jul 1 15:20:35 2000 Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 12:20:26 -0700 (PDT) From: "Collin T. Fagan" Subject: Re: ATV restriction To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Bill, Not knowing the background of the law, can you shed some more light?? By this new law are they saying that it is illegal to own and store an ATV/ORV within city limits?? Or is it more sensible and banning ORV/ATV USE within city limits... If the latter, I don't see that as unreasonable at all...ORVs just don't have the noise reduction of a street going vehicle....I sure as hell wouldn't want someone riding a KXYZCR whatever around my neighborhood... I know how loud my KX125 is, and it has a stock pipe on it..... However, I'm all for the promotion of more LEGAL offroad riding areas.... too many of em are being pressured out of existance and it is very sad.. Collin ===== Collin T. Fagan DC-Cycles Racing http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/9350/ Proudly sponsored by: Fast Lane Cycles (www.fastlanecycles.com) Dixie Cycles Bell Helmets, and EBC Brakes __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Sat Jul 1 15:39:19 2000 From: FGrefe@XXXXXX Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 15:39:09 EDT Subject: 1, no 2,.....OH NO 3 CRASHES To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX 2 on 211 going over Thorton's Gap and another on 678. Those who were involved can post details if they'd like to. Fred Grefe GTS1000 From dc-cycles-request Sat Jul 1 16:04:44 2000 Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2000 16:07:02 -0700 From: "Charles V. Pena" To: DC Cycles , Bannon Wysocki Subject: Saturday ride - not the best We had a glorious day for riding today. And 20+ people showed up at the Sheetz to ride. But you know what they way about the best laid plans... With that many people, we decided that it would be best to sub-divide into at least 2, if not 3, groups of riders -- with Danny taking the lead. Turns out we lost 3 riders almost right away, i.e., the turn off of 55 to go to 17 and then to Warrenton, (and nobody even really noticed!) -- Fred, Han, and Sanath. Fortunately, Fred knew where we were headed and got there via another route. According to Fred and Han, somewhere along the way Sanath just took off -- and to the best of my knowledge, was not seen again. The rest of us took Old Waterloo Rd. out of Warrenton to get to Crest Rd. and then onto Flint Hill and 211. I was riding sweep and saw a bunch off guys both on and off motorcycles to the side of the road. My first thought was that someone went down. Fortunately, that was not the case. Broken chain. Rider on a Yam FZR (sorry, but I know I didn't meet everyone and I also know I can't remember everyone's names!) After finding out what had happened I continued up the road to catch Danny and the rest of the group. Well, I guess they figured out something was wrong because I eventually caught them back-tracking. Anyway, we re-grouped and hung out in a gravel driveway off the side of the road while Danny called his wife and asked her to bring his truck to load up the FZR to take back to wherever. Danny volunteered to stay and said he would catch up with us at the base of the mountain (Dixie gas/gift shop). Todd Peer got volunteered to lead the "front" group out to Flint Hill and 211. I led the "back" group out after giving Todd a few minutes head start. On the way up the mountain, I noticed Han Park (and his bike, purple F2) standing on the side of the road. He looked calm and relaxed so I figured he was just taking a break (strange place for a break) and/or waiting for us (but why?) It turns out that Han and Fred (having lost Sanath) beat everyone to the mountain and had made at least one (if not two) runs already (even before the front group). What I didn't know at the time was that Han had lowsided in one of the turns. Fortunately, he was OK (although I have absolutely no idea how his butt managed to survive sliding wearing only jeans!) As best we could tell, the damage was mostly cosmetic (scuffed up left side fairing and broken windshield). But the F2 was ridable. The culprit in this accident may have been the front tire. Upon inspection, it was more than apparent that the tire had seen better days. Further up the road, there was a bit of chaos with lots of bikes off to the side and lots of people giving the "slow down" signal. Apparently, Kirt Senser (F4) also lowsided. The culprit in this accident was in all likelihood sand/gravel in the road. Bannon was riding in front of Kirt and he said he felt his back end step out and then looked in his mirrors and saw Kirt going down. BTW, I didn't witness either Han's or Kirt's crashes so others may have better details about what happened. Anyway, Kirt was/is OK. For those that are wondering, Aerostitch suits work! But his bike was/is not. The damage was more than cosmetic. In fact, it was not ridable back down the mountain. I went to the top and turned around to re-group with whoever was either at the top and/or following me. I then went back down the mountain and just waited/chilled at the Dixie gas/gift shop (there were already lots of lots of people helping out at the side of the road). Eventually, everyone drifted back down the mountain and parked it. Kirt caught a ride on the back of someone's m/c and left his F4 up on the mountain. We all waited for Danny to show up to figure out how best to handle this particular situation. When he finally did, Danny called the Honda Owner's Club to get a truck to come out to get Kirt's bike. Once again, Danny volunteered to stick around until help arrived. I was running out of riding time, so announced that I was heading back to civilization. Todd Peer led those who still wanted to ride up over Thornton Gap and then up to Front Royal. Hopefully, the rest of their ride was uneventful. A handful of us basically back-tracked on most of the roads we rode out on and went back to Marshall and eventually got on I-66 (at 15) to drone back in. I know I got 200 miles of riding, but definitely not "quality" miles. Certainly, not the best of days riding. I am glad that Han and Kirt are OK (even though there bikes are in various states of not-OK). I hope the rest of the ride with Todd went OK for everyone. I would've like to joined, but had to be home at 2pm and got home pretty much on time. I'm still doing the Monday ride leaving from The Java Shack at 9:30am (meet for espressos/lattes at 9am). We'll go up into Montgomery and Frederick Counties. 2-3 hours of riding. I've got some roads I want to check out so the pace won't be blistering. Everyone have a safe and happy 4th of July! Cheers, Skittles, aka Chuck -- "Wherever you go, there you are." -- Buckaroo Banzai visit us at http://www.geocities.com/the_penas From dc-cycles-request Sat Jul 1 16:05:46 2000 Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2000 16:08:11 -0700 From: "Charles V. Pena" To: FGrefe@XXXXXX CC: DC Cycles Subject: Re: 1, no 2,.....OH NO 3 CRASHES Fred, I hate hearing this! I just posted to the list saying I hoped all went well on the continuation of the ride led by Todd. Not good news. Chuck FGrefe@XXXXXX wrote: > > 2 on 211 going over Thorton's Gap and another on 678. Those who were > involved can post details if they'd like to. > > Fred Grefe > GTS1000 -- "Wherever you go, there you are." -- Buckaroo Banzai visit us at http://www.geocities.com/the_penas From dc-cycles-request Sat Jul 1 17:04:33 2000 From: "Laura Granato" To: Subject: big mistake-lesson learned Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 17:10:39 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_005A_01BFE37F.47D42360 When I first started reading the list, I never spoke up, but as a = beginner rider, I learned from everything that was talked about. Today = I did something really stupid and I hate to admit it, but hopefully = beginner riders will learn from my mistake and experienced riders will = be reminded to always think clearly. As not to go into the details for fear of embarrassing the hell out of = myself, lol, I will just give you a general word of advice. When you begin to ride in groups, make sure you know that whatever = decision the person in front of you makes may not be the best decision = for you. As a rider, you have to remember that what you decide = ultimately affects you, so think clearly before deciding to do anything = (especially while passing a car when you can't fully see what is coming = the other direction.) I made an assumption today that could have gotten = me in a serious wreck. It scared the hell out of me. The decision the = rider in front of me made was right for him because he had a better view = of the road, but it wasn't right for me, and I almost learned a real = hard lesson..as I would have been the new hood ornament on the car = coming the other direction. We all make mistakes, that's part of riding, and I definitely learned = from mine. Not only did I do something stupid, but I'm sure I scared = the crap out of the driver of the car. Think clearly and ride safe. Laura Granato '99 Suzuki GS500 ------=_NextPart_000_005A_01BFE37F.47D42360
When I first started reading the list, = I never=20 spoke up, but as a beginner rider, I learned from everything that was = talked=20 about.  Today I did something really stupid and I hate to admit it, = but=20 hopefully beginner riders will learn from my mistake and experienced = riders will=20 be reminded to always think clearly.
 
As not to go into the details for fear = of=20 embarrassing the hell out of myself, lol, I will just give you a general = word of=20 advice.
 
When you begin to ride in groups, make = sure you=20 know that whatever decision the person in front of you makes may not be = the best=20 decision for you.  As a rider, you have to remember that what you = decide=20 ultimately affects you, so think clearly before deciding to do anything=20 (especially while passing a car when you can't fully see what is = coming=20 the other direction.)  I made an assumption today that could = have=20 gotten me in a serious wreck.  It scared the hell out of me.  = The=20 decision the rider in front of me made was right for him because he had = a better=20 view of the road, but it wasn't right for me, and I almost learned a = real hard=20 lesson..as I would have been the new hood ornament on the car coming the = other=20 direction.
 
We all make mistakes, that's part of = riding, and I=20 definitely learned from mine.  Not only did I do something stupid, = but I'm=20 sure I scared the crap out of the driver of the car. Think clearly and = ride=20 safe.
 
Laura Granato
'99 Suzuki GS500
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_005A_01BFE37F.47D42360-- From dc-cycles-request Sat Jul 1 18:11:21 2000 From: "Kirt S." To: Subject: Re: Saturday ride - not the best Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 18:11:21 -0400 First thing I want to say is that I'm sorry. Accidents happen, and I'm sorry one had to happen to me while on this group ride, and summarily have said accident screw up/slow down the ride for everyone else. Secondly, I want to thank EVERYONE that helped me out after the accident, and I extend extra special thanks to Danny Thompson. Danny helped me out a bunch, by getting my bike towed via HRCA, and then getting me hooked up with the good guy sover a Blalock cycles. On to the crash details. I believe it was probably about six or so of the sharper turns into the twisty parts of 211, a sharp slightly uphill lefthander (immediately followed by a relatively sharp right hander). I had already slid tires two or three times so far, as it seemed like there might have been stuff in a few of the earlier turns, and Bannon agreed with me on this after the wreck. Thusly, I was going (relatively) slowly, and as I leaned into the turn everything looked good. The bike felt settled, I was in a good position, hanging off a little, and everything was working good. I didn't go in to hot or anything, but right as I was apexing (is that a word?) in the middle of the turn, I saw that there was an *awful lot* of what appeared to be sand in the turn, from about a foot over in the oncoming lanes to a good 4 feet inside the lane I was in. I had a quick decision to make, and figured 1.) I can stand the bike up, and try to swing wide around it (which probably would've left me in the ditch on the side of the road), or 2.) I could stay on the gas and hopefully maybe slide a little and have the tires catch and continue on. Well, I chose 2, smoothly continued rolling on the gas, didn't change my steering input at all (going deeper into the turn would've still resulted in sand and also me going into oncoming traffic), and thought to myself "oh shit, I hope I pull through ok...". Obviously I didn't, and almost instantaneously upon hitting the sand, the bike went down. I let go when I realized it was un-recoverable, and ended up on my chest, and the quicly on my back sliding down the road after my bike. Last I saw, the bike was spinning along on the alternator cover. I don't know how the bike hit the ditch, but I think it went in topside first, leading with the tail. I slid to a stop, and thanfully the VFR rider (who's name I have forgotten...) who was behind me managed to not run me over. :-) Then came the long string of expletives aimed at the sky, and a quick look down at myself to make sure everything was attached. Basically, about 6-7 people stopped with me, helped me get it out of the ditch, and I rolled it back down the road a little bit to a clearing on the side of the road. To make a long story short, I have escaped with virtually no injuries, excepting being quite sore, a bruised ego, and a serious bout of depression rolling in as I write this. I rode down with Bob on his ST1100, and then we waitied for Danny. Danny called the HRCA, arranged for towing, and kept me company when everyone else (understandably) went on their way. A fellow on an EX500 (I think) stayed too, although I'm crappy with names and couldn't tell you his to save my life. Thanks to him too. :-) Here's what's damaged... -Fairing Upper and windshield crushed (somehow) on their way into the ditch. -Instrument Panel crushed underneath Fairing Upper -All the left side plastic -Tail plastic on the side that touched the groung, and also numerous scratches along the top (?!?) -HUGE dent on both side of the wheel (in the same place), but with no scratches presumably from something that occured in the ditch. Loss of tire pressure too. -Alternator Cover (duh) -Shift Lever -Turn Signal -Left Footpeg -Left Clipon and bar-end -Probably some other stuff I'm forgetting/didn't notice yet (like the forks...pretty sure these are shot) However, I can't say enough good things about my Aerostich. Considering what happened, my Roadcrafter is in pretty damn good shape. Both knees are shot, and there are numerous scuff marks all over from sliding. It did save my body pretty damn good though, and I'm going to be sending it home to the Aerostich Factory to get fixed up. Can't say the same about my gloves, although they did the job, the left glove (Dainese) is missing almost the entire area that covers the "heel" of your palm. My hand is in great shape, and only has little scratches. These scratches actually occured at the very end of the slide, when I put my hand down to see if I was still sliding. I was. The hole already ground through the glove let a little skin touch, but at that point I was probably only sliding at about 10 mph. Boots are in pretty good shape, and so is my helmet, although I will be double checking that thoroughly tonight. Tank bag is ruined and was thrown from the bike during the accident. So there you have it. The thing that kills me the most about it though, is where the fuck did that sand come from. This was like *SAND* not, gravel, not even the dirt that's on the side of the road on 211. It's like sand that you would find at the beach, and there was PLENTY of it... Maybe it fell off somoenes car or truck or something. Ah well....gonna go call my insurance company now. Thanks again to everyone, and I'm sorry I screwed up the ride... Kirt Senser 99 F4 (wounded) From dc-cycles-request Sat Jul 1 18:39:30 2000 From: "Brian McCoy" To: "dc" Subject: rides today... Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 15:29:43 -0700 is it just me, or does it seem to everyone like DC-Cycles is starting to read more and more like DC Sportbiker... Yea, all the 'incidents' are accidents. But there are some people (myself included) who feel that EVERY mishap on a motorcycle is the Riders fault. Be it from lack of maintenance on the riders part (the chain and front tire today), to lack of awareness of your surroundings (the bent rims, and sand episode). And then the all-to-common 'riding over your head' episodes. Yea, I can think of a thousand excuses for all of them too.. so save it. Maybe it's time for everyone to reevaluate what riding means to them.. are you riding for the pure thrill of living on the edge and willing to take the risks of damaging your machine/body as well as possibly someone else's property AND ruining others enjoyment (if riding in a group)? If so, then allow your tires to go bald, skip the regular maintenance and upkeep on the bike and continue riding in your traditional reckless manor. But perhaps you should also hang a sign on your bike so the people who don't want to accept YOUR risks can quietly depart to have a fun and SAFE ride by themselves. But those are the people it's relatively easy to pick out of a crowd... what about those who just don't pay attention to their surroundings? Well, those people are a little harder to finger until they toss a bike, or pull a bonehead move infront of others. That's mostly true with those who ride over their heads. And, yes.. I've been guilty of all of the above.. and I got tired of the shit being on my conscious all the time. I fixed the bike and haven't had a problem with it since.. I got onto the racetrack to raise my ability on the bike so I wasn't pushing my limits so damn much when out with groups and riding with friends. And I made the mental change to open my eyes more, though that still does slip every now and again where I invite trouble. But the difference here is that I'm NOT having incidents.. I go out and ride with friends and we all go home under our own power with no new damage to the bikes or ourselves. I'm beginning to regret hounding the list for a group ride around Memorial day.. that seemed to be one of the pushes to get group rides going again - but it doesn't seem like people are capable of doing those rides. For once, I'm glad I'm not in that area and only have occasional association through e-mail. The list hasn't gone downhill.. it's dropped off a cliff. *shaking his head* Brian McCoy - no, I'm no better than anyone else, and never claimed to be. From dc-cycles-request Sat Jul 1 19:46:10 2000 From: MJordan666@XXXXXX Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 19:45:56 EDT Subject: Re: Saturday ride - not the best To: ksenser@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/1/00 18:14:29 Eastern Daylight Time, ksenser@XXXXXX writes: > Well, I chose 2 And a good choice it was too... A lowside is almost always better than a highside - especially if there are guard rails involved so that one is launched out into space for an indeterminate distance. Glad to hear that the safety gear did its stuff Michael J. From dc-cycles-request Sat Jul 1 21:24:32 2000 From: "No Body" To: cvkgpena@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX, bpwysoc@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Saturday ride - not the best Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2000 21:24:22 EDT >Turns out we lost 3 riders almost right away, i.e., the turn off >of 55 to go to 17 and then to Warrenton, (and nobody even really >noticed!) -- Fred, Han, and Sanath. Fortunately, Fred knew where we >were headed and got there via another route. According to Fred and Han, >somewhere along the way Sanath just took off -- and to the best of my >knowledge, was not seen again. I was riding with Fred and Han when a nice stretch of road appeared before, us, unable to resist, I took off for a quick zip up the road not realising that the turnoff was coming up. To make a long story short I rode back the way I came, rode up and down some roads could not find anyone, called my girlfriend at home to read me ride direction (I knew I should have printed them out) from the email, didnt think I would be able to catch up, so rode home with some random riders. Sorry to hear about all the mishaps on this ride, hope Kirt and Han will be back in action soon. This is a three out of three for me, every DC-Cycles ride I have been on, something has happened -mass ticketing, falling on my ass, that guy hitting a pot hole denting his rims etc. I guess you live and learn, still love group rides and will be on that ride on Monday. Regards Sanath ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From dc-cycles-request Sat Jul 1 22:32:30 2000 Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2000 22:33:56 -0400 From: "Paul A. Wilson" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: dc-cycles digest for 07/01/00 > From: "Brian McCoy" > Subject: rides today... > Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 15:29:43 -0700 > is it just me, or does it seem to everyone like DC-Cycles is starting to > read more and more like DC Sportbiker... > > Yea, all the 'incidents' are accidents. But there are some people (myself > included) who feel that EVERY mishap on a motorcycle is the Riders fault. > .. > are > you riding for the pure thrill of living on the edge and willing to take the > risks of damaging your machine/body as well as possibly someone else's > property AND ruining others enjoyment (if riding in a group)? .. > > I'm beginning to regret hounding the list for a group ride around Memorial > day.. that seemed to be one of the pushes to get group rides going again - > but it doesn't seem like people are capable of doing those rides. For once, > I'm glad I'm not in that area and only have occasional association through > e-mail. The list hasn't gone downhill.. it's dropped off a cliff. > > *shaking his head* > > Brian McCoy - no, I'm no better than anyone else, and never claimed to be. I think you're overreacting just a hair. As others say constantly, in a group situation ride your own ride. My day certainly wasn't "ruined" by the mishaps. I'm sure the riders who went down consider their days were "ruined" far more than any inconvenience I experienced. The aftermath of the incidents were handled in a responsible manner. If I ever overcook a turn on 211 I hope there's a group around to help me out, instead of relying on other motorists or the state troopers. I don't let the mob mentality take over. If I feel I'm not up to riding at the group pace, I slow down, pull over, turn around, go off on my own, etc. That said, I did feel the pace was a little too aggressive for me on the back roads, especially in the narrow cow path leading up to Flint Hill when the yellow line disappears. I spent the balance of day riding solo. After we split up at the Dixie, I rode up to Winchester to drop in on a friend and then came east via 50, Mt. Weather and Snickersville Tpk. By the way, I was on the Nighthawk today and it was my first DC-Cycles ride. Thinking about going on the Monday ride too, if it's still on. -- Paul A. Wilson Washington DC From dc-cycles-request Sat Jul 1 23:22:54 2000 From: "Brian McCoy" To: "dc" Subject: Re: rides today... Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 20:24:03 -0700 I don't think I did/am overreacting in the least. One can talk all they want about 'riding your own ride' and 'be safe'... the law of averages seems to be demonstrating that people attending DC-Cycles rides this years are unable to control their vehicles in an appropriate manor for the speeds they are riding. Obviously, there are always those people who have the experience to ride through such situations (like everyone else who rode through the sand on 211..) I'm just saying that instead of saying 'Oh, it was the Sands fault I crashed', or 'I couldn't help that my chain came apart'... whatever other situations there might be (I'm using these 2 because they're documented in todays posts), that you stop and thoroughly analyze why the situation might have occurred, and what could have been done to keep it from happening... hell, how to protect against it in the future. It's something that EVERYONE must do if you're riding in a group.... do you Really want to be the bike right behind someone who looses a chain because they haven't replaced a missing master link clip - not only might you have to watch someone crash right infront of you, but frequently those things come flying violently rearward. It hurts being hit with bugs and little tiny pebbles.. you want to have a chain whack you across the chest? Everyone that's gone on a group ride knows full well where their comfort limits are, and I'm willing to bet that at some time, everyone's ridden outside those limits. Everyone SHOULD know basic maintenance things to check on a bike, and if they aren't up to par - don't go out with a group. As for always being aware, I remember my first 'group' ride with Glenn Dyasrt and 3 others (don't recall the names)... there was a new rider on a 95? VFR behind me, didn't notice us stopping OR didn't have the experience to stop his bike quickly enough and he clipped my arm and mirror with his and she went by... a couple inches to the right and we both would have had an end to riding that day, and maybe for quite some time. You're NOT just endangering your life and livelihood when riding in a group and you should act accordingly damnit! Everyone on these rides should be an adult (I don't imagine to many younger people being online and able to afford a motorcycle - I think Brad Fass is one of the youngest...) As a working adult, you should also know your responsibilities and act in an appropriate manor. If you want to get wild and ride hard on the streets... find a group of likeminded people (WSDYMFG comes to mind - as a previous member) and go play amongst yourselves. *sighs* I remember a time where there were NO crash reports on the group rides - those were reserved for Collin and I from the racetrack... now it seems that more people are tossing it away on the streets while the racers are keeping the shiny side up. I'd just love to see the trend go towards EVERYONE staying on 2 wheels (or intermittent 1 if that's your choice :) ALL the time. Think about it. Brian McCoy - MMI Student From dc-cycles-request Sun Jul 2 00:23:28 2000 From: "Laura Granato" To: "Brian McCoy" , "dc" Subject: Re: rides today... Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 00:30:23 -0400 I'm sorry that you feel so disappointed with the list at this moment, but I don't think that everyone should be talked down to, as some people (probably most) take excellent care of their bikes and ride responsibly. Yes, there are some people that don't take care of their bikes as well as others, and yes, there are people that push their limits, but from what many people tell me (I think you, too, at some point) that you HAVE to push your limits at some point to learn. Not all of us have an interest in racing or the capabilities to get into it, so we just have to accept learning on the street in uncontrolled conditions that may not be prime for increasing confidence, abilities, etc. Many of us ride for the pure enjoyment of riding, not because we want to see who we can outrace from point A to point B. I am truly happy for you that you are not having the said *incidents* that some of us are having, but the way that I see it...this list is a place to share our thoughts about riding and learn from each other. So, today I learned my lesson, AND I learned to make sure that my tires are well taken care of and that my bike always has proper maintenance. I think that is something positive to think about. I think it may have been a little harsh to say you're glad you're not in the area as much...I know for a fact that if you were in the area, you'd be right there enjoying the ride and helping those out who did have problems instead of blasting them. Just had to give my opinion. Sounds like you must be having a bad day. Laura Granato '99 Suzuki GS500 ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian McCoy To: dc Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2000 6:29 PM Subject: rides today... > is it just me, or does it seem to everyone like DC-Cycles is starting to > read more and more like DC Sportbiker... > > Yea, all the 'incidents' are accidents. But there are some people (myself > included) who feel that EVERY mishap on a motorcycle is the Riders fault. > Be it from lack of maintenance on the riders part (the chain and front tire > today), to lack of awareness of your surroundings (the bent rims, and sand > episode). And then the all-to-common 'riding over your head' episodes. > Yea, I can think of a thousand excuses for all of them too.. so save it. > Maybe it's time for everyone to reevaluate what riding means to them.. are > you riding for the pure thrill of living on the edge and willing to take the > risks of damaging your machine/body as well as possibly someone else's > property AND ruining others enjoyment (if riding in a group)? If so, then > allow your tires to go bald, skip the regular maintenance and upkeep on the > bike and continue riding in your traditional reckless manor. But perhaps > you should also hang a sign on your bike so the people who don't want to > accept YOUR risks can quietly depart to have a fun and SAFE ride by > themselves. But those are the people it's relatively easy to pick out of a > crowd... what about those who just don't pay attention to their > surroundings? Well, those people are a little harder to finger until they > toss a bike, or pull a bonehead move infront of others. That's mostly true > with those who ride over their heads. > > And, yes.. I've been guilty of all of the above.. and I got tired of the > shit being on my conscious all the time. I fixed the bike and haven't had a > problem with it since.. I got onto the racetrack to raise my ability on the > bike so I wasn't pushing my limits so damn much when out with groups and > riding with friends. And I made the mental change to open my eyes more, > though that still does slip every now and again where I invite trouble. But > the difference here is that I'm NOT having incidents.. I go out and ride > with friends and we all go home under our own power with no new damage to > the bikes or ourselves. > > I'm beginning to regret hounding the list for a group ride around Memorial > day.. that seemed to be one of the pushes to get group rides going again - > but it doesn't seem like people are capable of doing those rides. For once, > I'm glad I'm not in that area and only have occasional association through > e-mail. The list hasn't gone downhill.. it's dropped off a cliff. > > *shaking his head* > > Brian McCoy - no, I'm no better than anyone else, and never claimed to be. > > From dc-cycles-request Sun Jul 2 00:51:47 2000 From: "Frank Wegerich" To: "Brian McCoy" Cc: Subject: RE: rides today... Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 00:55:15 -0400 I think you're right, can't be that 4 people go down during these rides. Even one is one to many. I was on this ride and it was not fun dragging the bikes out of the ditch. Nobody got hurt seriously (thank god) but it seems to be just a matter of time until somebody does .... Frank RT1100 -----Original Message----- From: Brian McCoy [mailto:v4mofo@XXXXXX] Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2000 23:24 To: dc Subject: Re: rides today... I don't think I did/am overreacting in the least. One can talk all they want about 'riding your own ride' and 'be safe'... the law of averages seems to be demonstrating that people attending DC-Cycles rides this years are unable to control their vehicles in an appropriate manor for the speeds they are riding. Obviously, there are always those people who have the experience to ride through such situations (like everyone else who rode through the sand on 211..) I'm just saying that instead of saying 'Oh, it was the Sands fault I crashed', or 'I couldn't help that my chain came apart'... whatever other situations there might be (I'm using these 2 because they're documented in todays posts), that you stop and thoroughly analyze why the situation might have occurred, and what could have been done to keep it from happening... hell, how to protect against it in the future. It's something that EVERYONE must do if you're riding in a group.... do you Really want to be the bike right behind someone who looses a chain because they haven't replaced a missing master link clip - not only might you have to watch someone crash right infront of you, but frequently those things come flying violently rearward. It hurts being hit with bugs and little tiny pebbles.. you want to have a chain whack you across the chest? Everyone that's gone on a group ride knows full well where their comfort limits are, and I'm willing to bet that at some time, everyone's ridden outside those limits. Everyone SHOULD know basic maintenance things to check on a bike, and if they aren't up to par - don't go out with a group. As for always being aware, I remember my first 'group' ride with Glenn Dyasrt and 3 others (don't recall the names)... there was a new rider on a 95? VFR behind me, didn't notice us stopping OR didn't have the experience to stop his bike quickly enough and he clipped my arm and mirror with his and she went by... a couple inches to the right and we both would have had an end to riding that day, and maybe for quite some time. You're NOT just endangering your life and livelihood when riding in a group and you should act accordingly damnit! Everyone on these rides should be an adult (I don't imagine to many younger people being online and able to afford a motorcycle - I think Brad Fass is one of the youngest...) As a working adult, you should also know your responsibilities and act in an appropriate manor. If you want to get wild and ride hard on the streets... find a group of likeminded people (WSDYMFG comes to mind - as a previous member) and go play amongst yourselves. *sighs* I remember a time where there were NO crash reports on the group rides - those were reserved for Collin and I from the racetrack... now it seems that more people are tossing it away on the streets while the racers are keeping the shiny side up. I'd just love to see the trend go towards EVERYONE staying on 2 wheels (or intermittent 1 if that's your choice :) ALL the time. Think about it. Brian McCoy - MMI Student From dc-cycles-request Sun Jul 2 00:57:39 2000 Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 00:59:50 -0700 From: "Charles V. Pena" To: pawilson@XXXXXX CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: dc-cycles digest for 07/01/00 Paul, The Monday ride is still a go. If you want to have espressos/lattes beforehand, be at The Java Shack in Arlington (http://www.javashack.com) at 9am. We'll hit the road at 9:30am sharp as I absolutely, positively have to be home NLT 1pm, preferably 12:30. Plan on 2-3 hours of riding in Montgomery/Frederick Counties. Cheers, Chuck "Paul A. Wilson" wrote : > > By the way, I was on the Nighthawk today and it was my first DC-Cycles ride. > Thinking about going on the Monday ride too, if it's still on. -- "Wherever you go, there you are." -- Buckaroo Banzai visit us at http://www.geocities.com/the_penas From dc-cycles-request Sun Jul 2 00:58:39 2000 Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 01:01:00 -0700 From: "Charles V. Pena" To: Brian McCoy CC: dc Subject: Re: rides today... Brian, As the guy who organized today's ride (but was not the official ride leader), let me just say that from what I could see (and I admit I couldn't see everything all the time), people were riding with their heads screwed on straight. Which is to say, not squidly in the least. I truly appreciate your words and thoughts of concern. And they are indeed good ones. Let's all make sure our m/c's are mechanically sound and that we're not running on stuff that needs to be replaced (tires, chains, etc.) And for sure, let's all be aware of what's going on and ride within our limits. I don't think DC-Cycles is turning into DC Sportbiker (and I only know about the latter by reputation and stories, having never ridden with those guys). I just think we've had a run of bad luck of late. Hopefully, things will get turned around. It might help if more folks offered up to lead rides. We could keep group sizes down (I think having 20+ riders may have somehow been a contributing factor to today's unfortunate incidents). And having different rides better geared to varying riding abilities. Right now, I'm just doing the best I can to get some/any rides organized! Regards, Chuck Brian McCoy wrote : > > is it just me, or does it seem to everyone like DC-Cycles is starting to > read more and more like DC Sportbiker... -- "Wherever you go, there you are." -- Buckaroo Banzai visit us at http://www.geocities.com/the_penas From dc-cycles-request Sun Jul 2 01:07:27 2000 Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 01:09:49 -0700 From: "Charles V. Pena" To: DC Cycles CC: Kirt Senser , Han Park , Danny Thompson , Todd Peer , Fred Grefe Subject: Everyone OK? (Saturday ride) I just wanted to check to make sure that everyone is OK after all that happened on today's ride. Kirt's posting confirms that he's doing more or less OK, but clearly his F4 isn't. Han? The guy on the FZR who snapped a chain? And the three other folks who apparently went down (according to Fred's post) who went with Todd Peer up and over Thornton Gap and then up to Front Royal via 678/675??? Chuck, aka Skittles -- "Wherever you go, there you are." -- Buckaroo Banzai visit us at http://www.geocities.com/the_penas From dc-cycles-request Sun Jul 2 01:45:52 2000 From: "Brian McCoy" To: "dc" Subject: RE: rides today... Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 22:47:05 -0700 Ok.. I've had a couple people comment on the harshness of delivery on my notes.. that's not intended (bad week, don't ask). And I'm NOT trying to point a finger at anyone to single them out as being anything that I, myself, have not once been. I mean, some of the old timers will remember my VF500f.. the one with the cans that fell off constantly.. and that had no suspension.. the one I crashed a couple times on rides... I think that Everyone's guilty of the 3 main things I'm pointing out... unfortunately, *I* had to learn the hard way (the only way I ever learn anything) and I'm attempting to bring these issues to everyone attention. I can remember back when Collin and I did a lot of rides together.. heh, Collin breaking Every rule about a bike in decent keep with Pepe, but he also has a LOT of ability. Anyway, we'd wander through the parking lot looking over the bikes and making note of the ones that had excessive 'chicken stripes', ratty looking chains/sprockets and overly worn tires... those people would usually be watched pretty closely and I remember asking a couple people to ride at the very back of the faster group if they wanted to be there, or drop back a group. It's hard to try and be authoritative to people you generally don't know from Adam - but it does instill a little confidence in the other riders for not having to worry about those things. Chuck, it's Awesome that you're stepping up to try and lead the rides.. and you're 'learning' on the fly. It seems as if there wouldn't BE any group rides without you this summer. That's a good thing... try getting a 'second in command' that you implicitly trust so you're not working so hard. Be a little inquisitive and cautious - even if that means holding the pace down (I think you've made it clear you're not the fastest person on the road and those who want to scream on ahead can do so). At some point you'll notice that you get a lot of repeats and you'll know how they ride and take care of their stuff.... life gets easier because then you just have a few newbies coming along. In the end though... the ride 'leader' shouldn't HAVE to do anything mentioned above. It's the responsibility of the riders... this isn't a daycare afterall. Also, to drag up an old thread (that got hot) is the issue of protective gear... Most people wear at least a jacket, jeans helmet and gloves, but you'll run into those who don't from time to time (*ahem* a main reason behind a group of riders taking their rides private). Heck, if you ARE one of those who doesn't wear all the gear that'll prevent a majority of injury.. think about how many people are going to have to deal with your body in the middle of the road, perhaps bloody from extensive roadrash, perhaps unconscious because of an old or previously dropped/crashed helmet.. perhaps... well, I don't want to go on. Geez.. that brings on yet ANOTHER issue.. who's current on their first aid training? Especially for dealing with shock... anyone carry first-aid kits on their bikes? And so on.. and so on... there are bazillions of MC specific safety-nazi lists/web pages and organizations out there that can really sap the fun from riding. ANYWAY.... geez, where Was my main train of thought. Oh-yea.. people, if you're going to go on a group ride, tone it down! I think the first ride that Chuck led after the Memorial day fiasco was the only one so-far where there were no incidents.. see if you (the attending riders) can make Monday the 2nd. Though, I suppose... at the rate things are going now, all the 'questionable' will soon be out for awhile and unable to ride.. then slower and more cautious when they do join back up. Shoot, but what the hell do I know.. I'm just some 26 year old punk kid who's only been riding for 5 years. Brian McCoy - (I'll probably shut up for good here in a little bit) From dc-cycles-request Sun Jul 2 08:25:20 2000 From: MJordan666@XXXXXX Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 08:25:07 EDT Subject: Re: Saturday ride - not the best To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/1/00 21:25:54 Eastern Daylight Time, kewlgt@XXXXXX writes: > Sorry to hear about all the mishaps on this ride, hope Kirt and Han will be > back in action soon. This is a three out of three for me, every DC-Cycles > ride I have been on, something has happened -mass ticketing, falling on my > ass, that guy hitting a pot hole denting his rims etc. I guess you live and > learn, still love group rides and will be on that ride on Monday. One of the great things about group rides is that we get so MANY opportunities to learn... ;-) Michael J. (who did a short EARLY (07:15) ride with the CAMS on Saturday) From dc-cycles-request Sun Jul 2 08:42:46 2000 From: MJordan666@XXXXXX Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 08:42:28 EDT Subject: Re: rides today... To: v4mofo@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/1/00 23:24:27 Eastern Daylight Time, v4mofo@XXXXXX writes: > I'm just saying that instead of saying 'Oh, it > was the Sands fault I crashed', or 'I couldn't help that my chain came > apart'... whatever other situations there might be (I'm using these 2 > because they're documented in todays posts), that you stop and thoroughly > analyze why the situation might have occurred, and what could have been done > to keep it from happening As we age (and take longer to heal) we tend to become more cautious. Riding at 10/10ths is fine on the track where one has a controlled environment - groups of people cleaning debris from the pavement, looking out for obstructions ahead, trained medical people close by, etc., etc. One has to back way off from that pace on the street - you NEVER know what's happening around the corner and if you don't leave room to assess the situation and take corrective measures, you're a statistic. Maybe not the first time, but eventually. I'm a LOT faster in the 3rd slot or so of a group than I am when I'm in the lead - reaction time again - the lead bike(s) provide that time to me. Put me up front and I'm just another slow old fart on a motorcycle. The primary rule on the track applies to street rides - You can't win if you don't finish. Michael J. P.S. - For those who haven't read it (or those who haven't read it recently), here's a link to Nick Ienatsch's "The Pace": http://reality.sgi.com/jbrown_corp/pace.html From dc-cycles-request Sun Jul 2 08:48:54 2000 From: MJordan666@XXXXXX Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 08:48:42 EDT Subject: Re: rides today... To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/2/00 00:25:27 Eastern Daylight Time, lgranato@XXXXXX writes: > this list is a place > to share our thoughts about riding and learn from each other Well said - the collective experience of the group is so much greater than any single individual's. Even if something is not immediately relevant to you, it is knowledge, and it increases your awareness. Michael J. From dc-cycles-request Sun Jul 2 08:56:34 2000 From: MJordan666@XXXXXX Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 08:56:23 EDT Subject: Re: rides today... To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/2/00 01:47:19 Eastern Daylight Time, v4mofo@XXXXXX writes: > Shoot, but what the hell do I know.. I'm just some 26 year old punk kid > who's only been riding for 5 years Brian - from a 54 year old punk kid who's only been riding for 39 years, hang in there. You are saying things that need to be said, and saying them well. If others are taking offence, perhaps they should be looking in the mirror a bit more closely. Michael J. From dc-cycles-request Sun Jul 2 09:54:40 2000 From: FGrefe@XXXXXX Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 09:54:26 EDT Subject: Re: Everyone OK? (Saturday ride) To: cvkgpena@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/2/00 1:07:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time, cvkgpena@XXXXXX writes: > And the three other folks who apparently went down > (according to Fred's post) who went with Todd Peer up and over Thornton > Gap and then up to Front Royal via 678/675??? It wasn't three additional people. I was counting the total for the ride. The two that you talked about + one more. Han had a small scrape on his arm, but seemed fine otherwise. The one on 678 crunched some mirrors and a little bodywork. The rider continued on and seemed none the worse for wear, although he's probably pretty sore about now. Fred GTS1000 From dc-cycles-request Sun Jul 2 10:02:26 2000 From: "Bob Meyer" To: Subject: RE: 1, no 2,.....OH NO 3 CRASHES Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 10:02:23 -0400 > -----Original Message----- > From: FGrefe@XXXXXX [mailto:FGrefe@XXXXXX] > Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2000 3:39 PM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: 1, no 2,.....OH NO 3 CRASHES > > > 2 on 211 going over Thorton's Gap and another on 678. Those who were > involved can post details if they'd like to. Well, #3 was me, on my ST1100. And it was my fault, plain and simple. I've been riding for near 30 years, I've raced (although it's been a long time), and in general I feel pretty confident about my abilities and think I know my limits. But this time I made a mistake. Several of them, actually. I was riding quite fast, but well within the limits of the bike, judging by the prior miles, where I kept up with the fast group without dragging anything. On a relatively benign left hand sweeper, easier than a lot of turns I'd already been through, I just plain blew it. I'm not sure if I just misjudged the degree of curve, my speed, or lost my concentration for a moment, or what. But I found myself too close to the outside edge, going too fast. I heeled it over even more, but the ST steers pretty damn slow, and I must have put a tire in the grass (there's no shoulder there at all). That was all it took. The tires lost grip, the bike low sided, slid through the tall grass, and into a ditch. It flipped over onto the right side, I think when the tires hit the bottom of the ditch. But damn, I'm lucky in spite of that. I went down on grass, not asphalt, so no serious damage to the bodywork. The only things obviously broken are the right side mirror shell, the mirror assembly (which is going to be expensive--not only did the glass break, but the casting that bolts to the fairing broke, too. The left hand tip-over wing cover is toast. On further examination this morning, it appears the fairing frame may be tweaked. Although the left side mirror & housing didn't break, the mirror no longer lines up with the plastic housing. There's a small crack in the inner fairing, next to the instrument pod. I don't think it will need anything more than a little glue, though. And that's it. Almost no scratches (thank that long grass). The bags are fine, the bodywork is fine, except for what I think is a boot scrape across the top of the tank. I rode it home, at a slower pace, without incident. Me? My back is pretty damn sore, and I've got a deep scratch on one leg (the pants aren't torn, though. My biggest mistake, I think, was forgetting that I don't have much time in on the ST, especially not on fast sweepers. On my last bike, a Hawk GT, I would have pulled it out, I think. But the ST is heavier, and steers and changes direction much more slowly. At the beginning of the ride I told myself I'd ride moderately, simply because I didn't have a lot of experience with it. But as things got going, and I felt more comfortable, the old competitive urges kicked in and away I went. Stupid. Second mistake, not paying enough attention. I've been through sweepers like that thousands of times. The road was good, the bike was capable of that speed, I should have made it easily. Clearly, *I* blew it. It wasn't the road's fault, or the grass' fault, it was mine. Going too fast for MY conditions. Third mistake, not leaving myself more of a cushion on public roads. This relates to at least one of the other accidents, too. When you're on the street, you have to expect you're going to run into the unexpected. Roads have sand on them--drive slowly enough so that you can change direction before you hit it. There ARE distractions on the road. Don't ride at speeds that require 100% concentration, cause you probably won't maintain that level of concentration for very long. Don't let your hormones override your common sense. Oh, well, a relatively inexpensive reminder that I'm not 25 anymore, I'm not riding a pocket rocket anymore, and I'm not on a race track. Most important though, it wasn't anyone else's fault. Not Chuck's for planning the ride, not Danny's for (trying to) lead it. And most definitely not Todd's. I really wasn't trying to keep up with him. I was just having a whole big ball of fun, and overdid it. Except for this one corner, I had a blast. And I urge Chuck and Danny to continue leading rides. I think it's time to try to convince the wife I need TWO motorcycle. One with much less weight and quicker handling. Thanks to Chuck, Danny and Todd, and thanks to the riders who pushed me out of the ditch, I afraid I don't remember your names. In the wind, Bob Meyer 1992 ST1100 (Red STag), STOC #1157 ============================================= People are more violently opposed to fur than leather, because it's safer to pick on rich women than biker gangs. From dc-cycles-request Sun Jul 2 10:48:49 2000 From: "Han Park" To: Subject: Scrapped pegs Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 10:50:55 -0400 Well I got my pegs down at 211 yesterday, unfortunately I also got my frame sliders down as well. First of all I would like to thank Fred (sorry don't know your last name) for helping me out after the crash and getting me to 211 (we got separated from the group). Fred showed a lot more smarts than me in managing the accident and his level headedness really helped me out. Thanks to everyone else who offered words of concern. Thanks to the group I went home with as well. I am sorry for crashing and I shouldn't have been riding as hard on that front as I did. I thought it would hold up since Fred and I had made 2 passes before that and I had gone as hard on those passes and nothing funny happened with the bike (no twitching or nothing, just totally stable which I think contributed to my confidence level). Also the funny thing is that there was no warning sign. The bike felt great up to the crash. Okay here's the details... Oh one other thing I consider my self very lucky. I had minimal damage considering the speed of the crash. As I said this was the third run on the mountain. It was uphill. We had gone through a couple of curves and entered this left hander. It was one of those 211 banked almost 180 switch back lefts. I went in and the bike felt great just passed the apex (or maybe at the apex) I heard the peg touch down, a split second later the front just let go and I was sliding with my bike in front of me. It was very strange, one moment I'm enjoying the corner, the next I'm thinking "damn I just went down". It was like when you see someone lose the front on the track midway through a turn, one minute they're riding the next they're sliding (although I'm making no comparisons in skill level :) ). I think I was so surprised by what happened and that helped me just stay relaxed while sliding (too dumb and slow to figure out what was going on). Oh the other thing that saved my ass and my bike big time were the frame sliders I put on. The two holes I had to cut in my fairing to install them are well worth it. Anyways the front let go and the bike just slide out from under me. The frame sliders saved the bike from serious injury (see damage report below). The bike slid off the road and into the ditch with its wheels leading. I was leaned left before the turn and after the bike went down I was sliding on my left buttocks and then my back for the rest of the way. It was like a snow boarding slide when you do a hard back carve and hit some ice and the board slides out. It's damn amazing I don't have more road rash on my butt. Yes I was just wearing jeans, the only damage was the left pocket got ripped off (Is that amazingly lucky?). My cordura jacket has some scuffing on the left elbow (I mean real minor). I think the fact that I was really leaned over in the turn helped to minimize damage as well. I was basically falling 1-2 feet. Also the frame sliders kept the bike off the ground and from pinning my left leg under it (which could have caused real damage). I can not reiterate enough the frame sliders rocked. I really think they saved me $1000 worth of bike damage and who knows how much road rash and crushed bones in my left leg. There were two ladies in the pick up truck behind me who said they saw it and were riders themselves. They said one moment I was in the turn and the next the bike was sliding. One of them said "You put it down just the way it was supposed to." Hmm I can't ride, but I can crash like no one's business :) . They also helped out and I would like to thank them although they will probably never read this. Damage: - me: Scratches on my elbow and left butt cheek. Very minor, I've had worst dayafters following tackle football. - bike: Lost the fuse cover, left peg feeler, broken windscreen, scratches on the left sidemirror and fairing, frame slider had 0.5-1 inch removed from the end, shifter lever had material removed from the end, small scratch on the end of the swing arm. Really pretty minor damage. The scuffing isn't that bad, from a distance you can't even tell. I had one of my neighbors walk by after I got it home and say nice bike! I just said thanks as I went inside. I will be replacing the windscreen and getting a new left peg feeler and that's it! I can live with the scratches. Okay what have I learned: I need a new front! Anyone know where I can get a front mounted and balanced? I need better lower body protection. Yes I came away unscathed but I consider myself VERY lucky. The funny thing is I just ordered some kevlar lined jeans a week ago. I will be getting some heavy duty work boots today. Frame sliders rock (I think I'm going to cover my bike with them : ) ). Oh finally I'm a dummy for riding as hard on that front. The accident was no one's fault but my own. Fred, please send me an e-mail so I can buy you a beer. From dc-cycles-request Sun Jul 2 12:13:44 2000 Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 09:13:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Glenn Braunstein Subject: Yesterday's Ride To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Per Kirt's description of his mishap yesterday, I was the "VFR rider (who's name I have forgotten...) who was behind me managed to not run me over. :-)" I can attest to the sand in the road that he mentioned, in case anyone doubts that it even existed. I was riding immediately behind Kurt in a somewhat staggered fashion...entering the uphill, left-banked turn, I was several yards behind him off the back-right outside of his bike. And luckily for the both of us, I was in that position, behind him on the outside, rather than immediately behind him, which could have potentially caused a much more serious accident. When we were cruising through that turn, my eyes lit up like deer in headlights when I all of a sudden saw him "transition" from a deep angle lean to a slide. When he hit the ground, I saw him tumbling in the road in front of me, and at the same time saw his bike torpedoing in a straight trajectory toward the outside of the enbankment, directly in front of the path of my heavily-leaned bike. The first thing that crossed my mind was, "F%$*ck!! DO NOT hit him!!", as I quickly stood up, rolled off throttle, and hit the FRONT brake (as the back would have just put me right in his exact position!) After swerving right to avoid him, I was then thinking I was about to follow his bike straight into that ravine...only with me on it!! Luckily, that didn't happen here. But most importantly, I am EXTREMELY RELIEVED that a 1-biker mishap with major bike damage was simply that, as opposed to a 2-biker mishap with significant body damage to both parties, which was just a split second away from reality. And as I said earlier...I totally attest to the fact that the middle of the road looked more like the beaches of Outer Banks than the Shenandoah Mountains. Lessons learned here: 1) The usual "ride within your own limits". That turn, with the abundance of strategically placed sand at EXACTLY the WRONG place for a cornering motorcyclist, would have taken MANY bikers down. 2) Try to be aware of EVERYTHING and EVERYONE AROUND and IN FRONT OF you. I'm not sure if he would have been able to steer clear (outside) of the sand if he had seen it just a 1/4 second earlier, but if he had been able to, be sure reaction time and eye-hand-coordination is at it its best! 3) When following a rider through twisties like these, be sure to position yourself at a safe enough distance to allow for an escape trajectory and braking procedure in case the rider in front of you goes down [worse case scenario]. After all, we're not out on the track here, folks!! Just fun, please rides!! We don't need to tail riders in front of us...and we certainly don't need to try to pass the bikes in front of us on corners. Incidentally, I was also the rider immediately following the first guy who blew out his chain. We were all cruising at a very moderate pass down a long straight-away, when all of a sudden, I see his chain bust apart and start spinning rapidly! My first reaction there was another "F&%*ck!" as I quickly slowed down, fearing that the chain might either: a) grab his rear wheel and lock it up somehow, or b) come flying back toward me! Another example of why it's important to practice conservative following distances!! Finally [okay...I must be bad luck here!!]...I was the rider who was immediately IN FRONT OF the guy who went down on the ST1100 on 678 (the small group of 6 bikes that Todd Peer led over Thornton Gap after leaving Dixies). I remember us cruising the twisties, myself being #3 and the guy on the ST1100 immediately behind me the entire time. The weird thing was that I was very impressed with how he was hanging with us (even on his much heavier, hard-bag laden sport-tourer!) through a bunch of very fast, but tight, twisties; but then all of a sudden, when the roads became much less technical, I looked in my rear-view, and he was simply gone!! From what he said, he just simply made a [self-proclaimed] stupid mistake, and let the bike go a little too wide on a left turn, caught some grass, and then slid out. VERY MINOR damage to the bike, and luckily to himself (with even just jeans on, no injuries at all!) But I'll let him fill in the details... Well, 1 day of riding...250 miles (for some)....21 bikes...3 of which went down...1 out of commission with a blown chain...1 ride organizer riding sweeper most of the day...and 1 ride leader spending more time on the phone trying to arrange clean-ups of out-of-commissioned and downed bikes than he was able to spend riding! Not the most impressive of numbers. Hopefully Chuck's ride tomorrow will be much less eventful! Thanks a bunch, though, to both Chuck (for organizing the ride) and Danny (for not only leading it but arranging towing services and staying to help the 2 bikers who needed it, ultimately sacrificing a good day of riding for himself!!) Glenn Braunstein 98 VFR 800 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Sun Jul 2 12:24:07 2000 From: "Robert Keiser" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: chatterbox Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 12:23:57 EDT Is the FRS model that much better? I haven't played with one yet and may do the upgrade deal. Aside from the extended range, how is the clarity and interference? Are any of the components compatible? like the speakers and mic? Or do I have to replace all that's in my helmet and passenger lid? TIA Rob '98 VFR800 /But with $100 trade in on your old one it's a good deal... not like /you'd ever go back to a limited 49MHz unit again after trying FRS. / /Collin ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From dc-cycles-request Sun Jul 2 12:36:15 2000 From: Gawthrop@XXXXXX Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 12:36:01 EDT Subject: Yesterday's Ride and Lessons Learned To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I've been monitoring the lists comments about the recent accidents and the lessons learned that you glean and share from these incidents. What you are doing is an excellent example of educating each other of lessons learned and hazards that exist out there. I don;t know if anyone is appointed safety officer or historian, but if you were to go back and collect the emails that have been written in the past, you could provide an excellent resource for present and future riders. And this is why its important. The Sport Bike sector is young and growing. Whether your recognize it or not, you are becoming the "gray beards" of your breed by virtue of the rapid acquisition of experience and the rather remarkable manner in which you share lesson learned. If someone were to compile your previous emails, it would make an excellent article for either Iron Biker or Thunder Press. Well done. Bill Gawthrop Maryland From dc-cycles-request Sun Jul 2 12:44:23 2000 From: "Robert Keiser" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Saturday ride - not the best Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 12:44:13 EDT First of all, thanks to Chuck for heading up another day of group riding. And another round of thanks to Danny for being the leader and group 'dad'. As for the downed bikes, sorry to see the damage, but glad everyone was not hurt. There is no substitute for good gear! (Shameless plug for 'stich!) Han, please...PLEASE get a new front tire and maybe some race pants! Kirt, absolutely no need to apologize to any of us. I still had a fun day of riding, and enjoyed being part of the group. Hopefully I'll see some of you on tomorrow's ride. Rob '98 VFR800 ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From dc-cycles-request Sun Jul 2 13:00:16 2000 Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 12:50:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Morris Berman To: DC Cycles Subject: Leather Cleaning Q Can anyone suggest a good place to get leather riding gear cleaned & conditioned in the MD suburbs? I just returned from spending 4 sweltering days in my Hein Gericke and it REALLY needs a cleaning! Thanks, -Mb ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Morris Berman, berman@XXXXXX '96 Kawasaki GPz1100, '82 GS650GL (DoD #1237), Scuba, Skiing, AMA (M/C) #446884 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No one is responsible for what I say...well, OK, maybe me. Managers are like cats in a litter box. They're always rearranging trying to cover up what they've done. --Scott Adams From dc-cycles-request Sun Jul 2 13:59:32 2000 From: "Laura Granato" To: , Subject: Re: rides today... Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 14:06:31 -0400 > > Brian - from a 54 year old punk kid who's only been riding for 39 years, hang > in there. You are saying things that need to be said, and saying them well. > If others are taking offence, perhaps they should be looking in the mirror a > bit more closely. > > Michael J. I agree! thanks for all of the advice, Brian. and hope you have a better week. :-) Laura Granato > From dc-cycles-request Sun Jul 2 14:17:13 2000 Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 14:19:37 -0700 From: "Charles V. Pena" To: Brian McCoy CC: dc Subject: Re: rides today... Brian, I consider you one of the "old guys" and myself one of the "new guys" so I tried not read anything into your posting (not always easy with email). And I know all your words were meant as constructive criticism. Hopefully, we're all learning and storing away that knowledge for a rainy day -- well, not me 'cause I don't ride in the rain! %^) I certainly would be a much happy camper (and ride leader) if we can manage to keep everyone upright! FWIW, we do need a few more folks to step up to the plate and lead rides. I know some folks may not like (or be "intimidated") by my rides because they're populated predominantly by sportbikers. Although any and all are always welcome to join me on any ride I lead, I can certainly understand this situation. Unfortunately, a sportbike is what I ride and I enjoy "real world" sportbike riding (I enjoy the track even more, but it's harder to find the time/$$$ to get there!) So other non-sportbike riders need to come to the fore and organize rides. I'm not advocating segragation/discrimination here, just more diversity and choice. We have a lot of folks of varying abilities who ride different types of m/c's. If I'm the only person leading rides, there are a whole lot of people on the list who aren't being as well served by their fellow listers as they could be. So need to shut up, Brian! %^) Chuck, aka Skittles Brian McCoy wrote : > > Ok.. I've had a couple people comment on the harshness of delivery on my > notes.. that's not intended (bad week, don't ask). And I'm NOT trying to > point a finger at anyone to single them out as being anything that I, > myself, have not once been. -- "Wherever you go, there you are." -- Buckaroo Banzai visit us at http://www.geocities.com/the_penas From dc-cycles-request Sun Jul 2 14:19:06 2000 Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 14:21:33 -0700 From: "Charles V. Pena" To: FGrefe@XXXXXX CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Everyone OK? (Saturday ride) Fred, Sorry about this mix up. While I'm not happy to learn that we had another rider go down later in the day, I am much happier to learn that we didn't have 3 more riders go down. Sorry for not reading/understanding your email correctly! Chuck, aka Skittles FGrefe@XXXXXX wrote: > > It wasn't three additional people. I was counting the total for the ride. > The two that you talked about + one more. Han had a small scrape on his arm, > but seemed fine otherwise. The one on 678 crunched some mirrors and a little > bodywork. The rider continued on and seemed none the worse for wear, > although he's probably pretty sore about now. -- "Wherever you go, there you are." -- Buckaroo Banzai visit us at http://www.geocities.com/the_penas From dc-cycles-request Sun Jul 2 14:22:31 2000 Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 14:24:55 -0700 From: "Charles V. Pena" To: Glenn Braunstein CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Yesterday's Ride Uh Glenn, I'm not sure I want you on my ride tomorrow! %^) SEE THE SMILEY??? Chuck, aka Skittles Glenn Braunstein wrote : > > Per Kirt's description of his mishap yesterday, I was > the "VFR rider (who's name I have forgotten...) who > was behind me managed to not run me over. :-)" > Incidentally, I was also the rider immediately > following the first guy who blew out his chain. > Finally [okay...I must be bad luck here!!]...I was the > rider who was immediately IN FRONT OF the guy who went > down on the ST1100 on 678 (the small group of 6 bikes > that Todd Peer led over Thornton Gap after leaving > Dixies). -- "Wherever you go, there you are." -- Buckaroo Banzai visit us at http://www.geocities.com/the_penas From dc-cycles-request Sun Jul 2 14:31:36 2000 From: MJordan666@XXXXXX Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 14:31:19 EDT Subject: Re: Leather Cleaning Q To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/2/00 13:01:16 Eastern Daylight Time, berman@XXXXXX writes: > Can anyone suggest a good place to get leather riding gear cleaned & > conditioned in the MD suburbs? > > I just returned from spending 4 sweltering days in my Hein Gericke and it > REALLY needs a cleaning! Morris, REAL bikers just ride in the rain with the zippers open ;-) (it counts as a shower, too) Michael J. From dc-cycles-request Sun Jul 2 14:35:43 2000 Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 14:38:07 -0700 From: "Charles V. Pena" To: Han Park CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Scrapped pegs Han, Obviously, I wasn't there and didn't see what happened, but here are my thoughts (FWIW) based on your description of what happened. 1. I would say that your front tire was probably the single biggest contributor to your fall. Please do yourself and everyone else a big favor -- buy a new one, dude! %^) And while you're at it, check your rear. Everyone will give you different recommendations about where to go to get a tire mounted and balanced; here's mine: Denny at Crossroads Cycles (703) 820-3711. He's probably not the cheapest (but almost for sure cheaper than a regular dealership), but still reasonable. 2. Since you said you touched a peg down, combined with the condition of your front tire, sounds like you had too much steering input (and, therefore, lean angle) for the front to grip. So -- as you said -- it just went away from you. Your crash sounds remarkably similar to mine at CSS@VIR. Although I can't blame the tires for my crash -- all rider-induced error (too much steering input resulting in too much lean angle resulting in riding off the edge of the tires, i.e., riding the wheels off the bike). And yes, IMHO you were incredibly lucky. I'm not a safety-Nazi or anything, but I would strongly suggest you get yourself some "real" protective gear. At a minimum, Kevlar jeans. And a jacket with armor. A 'Stich wouldn't be a bad idea. Or full leathers. And riding boots. I know it's $$$, but it will be $$$ well-spent for the peace of mind and the protection it will give you if you should ever need it again (hopefully not). If you're smart, do your homework, and shop around, you don't have to spend a fortune to get good quality (not the best or top-shelf, but still good stuff -- not cheap-o, cheesy stuff) protective gear. I am happy to hear that you're OK. And it sounds like your m/c is more or less OK. Hope you're back up and running soon! Cheers, Skittles, aka Chuck Han Park wrot : > > Well I got my pegs down at 211 yesterday, unfortunately I also got my > frame sliders down as well. -- "Wherever you go, there you are." -- Buckaroo Banzai visit us at http://www.geocities.com/the_penas From dc-cycles-request Sun Jul 2 14:42:50 2000 From: "Han Park" To: "Charles V. Pena" Cc: Subject: Re: Scrapped pegs Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 14:44:53 -0400 I think that sounds about right. I will be getting kevlar jeans and boots asap and a new d207zr front. Thanks! han ----- Original Message ----- From: Charles V. Pena To: Han Park Cc: Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2000 5:38 PM Subject: Re: Scrapped pegs > Han, > > Obviously, I wasn't there and didn't see what happened, but here are my > thoughts (FWIW) based on your description of what happened. > > 1. I would say that your front tire was probably the single biggest > contributor to your fall. Please do yourself and everyone else a big > favor -- buy a new one, dude! %^) And while you're at it, check your > rear. Everyone will give you different recommendations about where to > go to get a tire mounted and balanced; here's mine: Denny at Crossroads > Cycles (703) 820-3711. He's probably not the cheapest (but almost for > sure cheaper than a regular dealership), but still reasonable. > > 2. Since you said you touched a peg down, combined with the condition > of your front tire, sounds like you had too much steering input (and, > therefore, lean angle) for the front to grip. So -- as you said -- it > just went away from you. > > Your crash sounds remarkably similar to mine at CSS@VIR. Although I > can't blame the tires for my crash -- all rider-induced error (too much > steering input resulting in too much lean angle resulting in riding off > the edge of the tires, i.e., riding the wheels off the bike). > > And yes, IMHO you were incredibly lucky. I'm not a safety-Nazi or > anything, but I would strongly suggest you get yourself some "real" > protective gear. At a minimum, Kevlar jeans. And a jacket with armor. > A 'Stich wouldn't be a bad idea. Or full leathers. And riding boots. > I know it's $$$, but it will be $$$ well-spent for the peace of mind and > the protection it will give you if you should ever need it again > (hopefully not). If you're smart, do your homework, and shop around, > you don't have to spend a fortune to get good quality (not the best or > top-shelf, but still good stuff -- not cheap-o, cheesy stuff) protective > gear. > > I am happy to hear that you're OK. And it sounds like your m/c is more > or less OK. Hope you're back up and running soon! > > Cheers, > Skittles, aka Chuck > > Han Park wrot : > > > > Well I got my pegs down at 211 yesterday, unfortunately I also got my > > frame sliders down as well. > > -- > "Wherever you go, there you are." -- Buckaroo Banzai > visit us at http://www.geocities.com/the_penas From dc-cycles-request Sun Jul 2 14:47:06 2000 Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 14:49:30 -0700 From: "Charles V. Pena" To: Brian McCoy , dc Subject: Re: rides today... OOPS! What I meant to type was that there's NO need for you to shut up, Brian! %^) Chuck "Charles V. Pena" wrote : > > So need to shut up, Brian! %^) -- "Wherever you go, there you are." -- Buckaroo Banzai visit us at http://www.geocities.com/the_penas From dc-cycles-request Sun Jul 2 14:50:10 2000 Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 14:52:37 -0700 From: "Charles V. Pena" To: DC Cycles Subject: [Fwd: [Suzuki-bikes] Another Sad Note from th Racing World.....] Got this from the Suzuki list. Sorry if I'm re-posting info that y'all have gotten from other m/c lists. Greg McQuide and now Joey Dunlop. I am really bummed. Chuck -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [Suzuki-bikes] Another Sad Note from th Racing World..... Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 13:26:07 -0500 From: Jeff Wallace To: Suzuki-Bikes CC: marauder Another Sad note: TT Hero Dunlop Killed News from England this AM tells a sad tale. Isle of Man TT winner and British racing hero Joey Dunlop was killed in a street circuit race yesterday. Dunlop was racing at the 3.7-mile public roads circuit on the outskirts of the Estonian capital of Tallinn. He had won the 600 race earlier in the weekend, and the Superbike race on Sunday. Later that day he was killed in a crash during the 125cc race, while on the second lap. Dunlop, 48 was killed instantly and the event canceled after his crash. The Honda release states: "Dunlop scored his record 26th win at the Isle of Man TT races little more than three weeks ago. He began racing in 1969 and was a factory Honda rider for the past 18 years. The father of five was honored with both MBE and OBE awards for his humanitarian work in war torn countries." Ends _______________________________________________ Suzuki-bikes maillist - Suzuki-bikes@XXXXXX http://lomond.pro-libertate.com/mailman/listinfo/suzuki-bikes http://fatman.pro-libertate.com/suzuki/owners.html From dc-cycles-request Sun Jul 2 17:53:55 2000 Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 14:53:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: rides today... To: "Charles V. Pena" , Brian McCoy Cc: dc --- "Charles V. Pena" wrote: > Brian, > > I consider you one of the "old guys" and myself one > of the "new guys" so > I tried not read anything into your posting (not > always easy with > email). And I know all your words were meant as > constructive > criticism. Hopefully, we're all learning and > storing away that > knowledge for a rainy day -- well, not me 'cause I > don't ride in the > rain! %^) I certainly would be a much happy camper > (and ride leader) if > we can manage to keep everyone upright! > > FWIW, we do need a few more folks to step up to the > plate and lead rides. What purpose will this serve? It sounds to me like the best thing for you guys to do is to attempt to get more organized.....putting together a group of riders who can spend time riding together and getting comfortable with one anothers' riding styles will help a lot more than 'mixing it up' every weekend. The latter is a proven recipe for disaster. Trust me, I've been on my share of DC Cycles rides over the past 4 years, and one thing that is consistent about them (the larger group rides, that is) is the inevitable get-off.... Now, there's nothing wrong with the occasional large-group tour up to Harper's Ferry for lunch (or whatever), but an aggressive sport ride should NOT involve riders who haven't ridden together before (unless the new riders are at the rear, attempting to get familiar with the "pack's" style). I would actually enjoy leading such an aggressive sport ride (and do so just about every weekend), but would rather not have to deal with the guilt from the fatality that WILL eventually occur if you continue to put 20+ testosterone-laden strangers with 100+hp land-rockets together (apparently 2-3 yards apart from one another) on unfamiliar, twisty mountain roads. -- tg __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Sun Jul 2 18:06:59 2000 Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 18:00:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Tansey To: DC Cycles Subject: Advice on securing a bike I'm hoping to pull my bike out of storage next weekend and bring it to my apartment complex. I've always had a private/secure place to keep my bike so I've got a few questions. I have assigned parking, so I'll be putting the bike against the curb and parking my car behind it. I've got Kryptonite disc locks (2) and cable with lock, as well as a Dowco cover. I have a '90 Virago 535, so I do not have a center stand. I live in a soon-to-be-gated complex, so with any luck I'll manage to not have it stolen *fingers crosses*. I am concerned with the optimal way to park it so the kids around here have less of a chance of pulling the bike down. With just the kickstand it's significantly easier to rock it off balance. >From what I can tell I'll be the only one here with a bike and I can see the kids being very curious about the shiny bike they know lives under the cover. Thanks in advance, Shannon From dc-cycles-request Sun Jul 2 18:20:46 2000 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 18:19:59 EDT Subject: Re: Advice on securing a bike To: tansey@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/2/2000 6:08:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, tansey@XXXXXX writes: << From what I can tell I'll be the only one here with a bike and I can see the kids being very curious about the shiny bike they know lives under the cover. Thanks in advance, Shannon >> Post BIG sign on it stating that "All nosey kids will be SHOT!!" ;-) Scooter (2000 YZF-R6 R/W/B) From dc-cycles-request Sun Jul 2 18:49:20 2000 From: FGrefe@XXXXXX Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 18:48:38 EDT Subject: Re: Advice on securing a bike To: tansey@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 7/2/00 6:08:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, tansey@XXXXXX writes: > with lock, as well as a Dowco cover. I have a '90 Virago 535, so I do not > have a center stand. > park it so the kids around here have less of a chance of pulling the bike > down. With just the kickstand it's significantly easier to rock it off > balance. Some covers come with holes at the bottom, so you can pinch the cover together underneath the bike and lock the two sides together. This way the cover can't be taken off. If your cover doesn't come with them, it wouldn't be hard to add them. When I lived in a condo in Reston, I never had any problems with the kids as long as I kept the bike covered. Of course this didn't stop the A-holes that stole it, but it wasn't a gated parking lot either. My favorite story came from Art, the guy who used to own the motorcycle accessory store in Falls Church. He had a nice BMW that he kept parked in front of his townhouse. Whenever he'd see the neighborhood kids starting to touch or climb on his bike, he come outside, tell them that they set off the "silent alarm" and warn them to stay off it. Now usually the kids were doing this with their parents standing by and the parents would never keep the kids off the bike. One day, when he got tired of telling the same kids to stay off the bike, he watched as the kids started climbing on the bike and the parents just stood by. Art ran out of the house, while racking a shotgun. Now that he had everyone's full attention he said "Oh its just you kids. You set the alarm off and I thought someone was stealing my bike." After that day, the parents wouldn't let the kids get within 20 feet of the bike. Fred Grefe GTS1000 From dc-cycles-request Sun Jul 2 21:16:33 2000 From: "DAN KENNEY" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Joey Dunlop Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 18:16:16 PDT I just just read that Joey Dunlop was killed today. I feel honored to have seen him win his 24th Isle of Man ( I was ther in June for the GP). He was one of the best if not the best riders in the world. he was a very humble man never saying alot . Godspeed Joey, Dan Kenney Red 1997 Suzuki TL1000s ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From dc-cycles-request Sun Jul 2 21:33:36 2000 From: "DAN KENNEY" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: typing Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 18:33:27 PDT Damn, The more I type the worse my typing gets. Sorry!!!!! Dan Kenney Red 1997 Suzuki TL1000s ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From dc-cycles-request Sun Jul 2 22:18:16 2000 From: Ahalan To: "dc-cycles (E-mail)" Subject: DC-Cycles Accident reports Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 22:16:59 -0700 I think that's a pretty nice idea actually - If someone could put together all the accident reports from DC-Cycles over the years possibly just weed out the ones that seem to be poorly analyzed, it might just be a worthwhile compilation for reading and learning. Maybe publish it on the web, not as a "hero's catalog of crime" but more like a "learning from each other's mistakes" kind of thing. Niv BMW F650ST From dc-cycles-request Sun Jul 2 23:33:15 2000 Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 23:35:37 -0700 From: "Charles V. Pena" To: Tom Gimer CC: dc Subject: Re: rides today... > What purpose will this serve? It sounds to me like > the best thing for you guys to do is to attempt to get > more organized.....putting together a group of riders > who can spend time riding together and getting > comfortable with one anothers' riding styles will help > a lot more than 'mixing it up' every weekend. The > latter is a proven recipe for disaster. I agree with you that more of us need to ride together and get to know each other's riding styles so that we can all be better/safer as a group. But I was also suggesting that we need other rides for those who don't want to do a "sportbike" ride, that's all. I know not everyone on the list necessarily wants to ride in the "twisties" and might want something less "technical" and more "sedate". And we need folks who are willing and able to lead such rides. > Now, there's nothing wrong with the occasional > large-group tour up to Harper's Ferry for lunch (or > whatever), but an aggressive sport ride should NOT > involve riders who haven't ridden together before > (unless the new riders are at the rear, attempting to > get familiar with the "pack's" style). Again, we agree. But right now, it seems that all that's being offered up are rides more geared towards folks who ride sportbikes (since that's what I ride and I seem to be the only person leading rides at the moment). Certainly, I think it would be great if other better/more experienced sportbike riders on the list would also lead rides. But I also think we need some non-sportbike rides so that folks who might not feel as comfortable riding a "typical" sportbike ride will have an opportunity to enjoy the company of other DC-Cycle'ers other than just trading emails. Regards, Chuck Tom Gimer wrote : > -- "Wherever you go, there you are." -- Buckaroo Banzai visit us at http://www.geocities.com/the_penas From dc-cycles-request Mon Jul 3 00:26:32 2000 From: "Razz Man" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: chatterbox Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 00:26:23 EDT Chatterbox now offers you the choice of stereo or mono versions. The mono version will work with your current head gear. You will need new head gear for the stereo version. I understand the clairity is much better. I haven't ordered mine yet but will next month (I need to spend this months "surplus" on my recording studio). Razz "There's too much month at the end of my money" '99 ZX9R '89 LTD454 '86 LTD454 > >Is the FRS model that much better? I haven't played with one yet and may >do >the upgrade deal. Aside from the extended range, how is the clarity and >interference? Are any of the components compatible? like the speakers and >mic? Or do I have to replace all that's in my helmet and passenger lid? >TIA > >Rob >'98 VFR800 > > >/But with $100 trade in on your old one it's a good deal... not like >/you'd ever go back to a limited 49MHz unit again after trying FRS. >/ >/Collin >________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From dc-cycles-request Mon Jul 3 01:42:11 2000 From: "John Kozyn" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: rides today... Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 01:42:00 EDT From: "Laura Granato" I'm sorry that you feel so disappointed with the list at this moment, but I don't think that everyone should be talked down to, as some people (probably most) take excellent care of their bikes and ride responsibly. Yes, there are some people that don't take care of their bikes as well as others, and yes, there are people that push their limits, but from what many people tell me (I think you, too, at some point) that you HAVE to push your limits at some point to learn. Not all of us have an interest in racing or the capabilities to get into it, so we just have to accept learning on the street in uncontrolled conditions that may not be prime for increasing confidence, abilities, etc. Many of us ride for the pure enjoyment of riding, not because we want to see who we can outrace from point A to point B. I am truly happy for you that you are not having the said *incidents* that some of us are having, but the way that I see it...this list is a place to share our thoughts about riding and learn from each other. So, today I learned my lesson, AND I learned to make sure that my tires are well taken care of and that my bike always has proper maintenance. I think that is something positive to think about. I think it may have been a little harsh to say you're glad you're not in the area as much...I know for a fact that if you were in the area, you'd be right there enjoying the ride and helping those out who did have problems instead of blasting them. Just had to give my opinion. Sounds like you must be having a bad day. ============ Brian always seems to have a bad day Laura. It's part of his antagonistic charm, I guess. In fact, he who couldn't wait to bail outta DC moved to Arizona just to get away from himself ;) But he screwed up. Hehehe, just kidding Brian,...maybe :) Laura, you _are_ right and Brian McCoy is wrong here; big time. The rest of this is for BM and not Ms. Granato : ------ Dood, you are so heavy-handed in your criticism, that even a critical, heavy-handed sort like me gets offended. (I'm serious). You dont give anyone quarter. The worst thing about it is that you're as young as you are. You're what,... 25? Lighten up and please spare DC-Cycles from any more of your hubris. JK ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From dc-cycles-request Mon Jul 3 06:55:57 2000 From: Gawthrop@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 06:55:36 EDT Subject: Heads Up - Warning to Racers in MD. To: rdrdr@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX, Gypsylthr@XXXXXX, jayblock@XXXXXX, KathleenLoerich@XXXXXX, rebel_rider69@XXXXXX, toni2000r@XXXXXX Heard on the news this Morning that the State of Maryland is beginning Helicopter surveillance of the thorough fares to counter aggressive motorcycle operations (e.g. racers.) Pre positioned road blocks and interception capabilities with overhead command and control. Also, MD is advertising a mobile number ( # something) for drivers to call in with descriptions and tag numbers. Bill Gawthrop Maryland From dc-cycles-request Mon Jul 3 07:07:21 2000 Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 07:06:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Peter Hartzler To: DC Cycles Subject: Flat Tire Story All -- On Saturday I went out for a ride, and a spectacular day it was. On 601, Mt. Weather Road, I encountered a biker stuck on the side of the road with a flat. Since I had one of those glue+plug+CO2 kits, a couple of years old, I said what the heck, and we worked on plugging up the tire. Turns out that the two CO2 charges weren't enough to come close to completely inflating his tire. For a large tire, such as was on his bike (and what's on mine, for that matter), I'd guess at least four, and more comfortably five or six would be called for. The small puncture was in the thinnest part of his well worn rear tire. I don't think that plug or that tire was worth a tinker's damn. However, the plugged, underinflated tire was enough to allow us him limp along 601 to a mutual friend's house (that was a surprise!) Riding 601 at about twenty miles an hour was an interesting experience... Anyhow, I learned a lot by doing this, and now I'm looking to replace the kit... I'll be sure to pick up some extra inflation charges as well -- and that's basically the point of my story -- if you have a mid to large sized tire, you will want more than a couple of small CO2 bottles to get you road ready. Pete. From dc-cycles-request Mon Jul 3 08:53:49 2000 Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 08:53:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Kirk Roy To: DC-Cycles Mailing List Subject: Yamaha parts online A dealer has some yamaha bike's parts online. The dealer is at: http://www.hlsm.com/ The street bike parts are at: http://216.37.204.3/Yamaha_mc/yam_mc.asp?model_list Kirk 2000 Kawasaki KLX300 (http://planetklx.dirtrider.net) 1998 Honda VTR1000 (http://members.nova.org/~kirk/Kirk1.jpg) DCOffroad - the Wash, DC area offroad e-mail list: http://www.egroups.com/community/dcoffroad From dc-cycles-request Mon Jul 3 09:48:17 2000 Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 09:48:11 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "Dan J. Snyder" Subject: Re: Yesterday's Ride Coincidentally, Glenn was in our group ride when I went down mid -June on 211. He is a good luck charm as he knows how to handle his VFR and is extremely helpful in these situations. BTW, does anyone know of a m/c accident that occurred Saturday on Route 193(Great Falls area) west of 495? Dan 00 RSV >Uh Glenn, I'm not sure I want you on my ride tomorrow! %^) SEE THE >SMILEY??? > >Chuck, aka Skittles > >Glenn Braunstein wrote : > > > > Per Kirt's description of his mishap yesterday, I was > > the "VFR rider (who's name I have forgotten...) who > > was behind me managed to not run me over. :-)" > > > Incidentally, I was also the rider immediately > > following the first guy who blew out his chain. > > > Finally [okay...I must be bad luck here!!]...I was the > > rider who was immediately IN FRONT OF the guy who went > > down on the ST1100 on 678 (the small group of 6 bikes > > that Todd Peer led over Thornton Gap after leaving > > Dixies). > >-- >"Wherever you go, there you are." -- Buckaroo Banzai >visit us at http://www.geocities.com/the_penas From dc-cycles-request Mon Jul 3 10:01:37 2000 Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 10:00:55 -0700 From: Dale Horstman To: Peter Hartzler CC: DC Cycles List Subject: Re: Flat Tire Story Peter Hartzler wrote: > > Anyhow, I learned a lot by doing this, and now I'm looking to replace the > kit... I'll be sure to pick up some extra inflation charges as well -- > and that's basically the point of my story -- if you have a mid to large > sized tire, you will want more than a couple of small CO2 bottles to get > you road ready. Pete (and others) I carry this on the bike! It fits neatly under the right sidecover of the Connie. Works well. Plugs right into the cigarette lighter adapter I installed in the fairing. http://www.buytheworld.com/beyond/bonaire/210.htm Horkster -- Dale Horstman (the Horkster) horkster@XXXXXX Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 1998 Kawasaki Concours - His - BugSlayer 1999 Kawasaki Concours - Hers - Grape Nehi From dc-cycles-request Mon Jul 3 10:16:14 2000 From: "Wysocki, Bannon" To: "'Charles V. Pena'" , DC Cycles , Bannon Wysocki Subject: RE: Saturday ride - not the best Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 09:11:04 -0500 Just A Thought... I was on the ride July 1st and the one before that too (BANNON R6). I am amazed at the ratio of crashers to riders. I can see that there are many causes to these incidents: Ability/knowledge, size of group and speed, mechanical. My first point of ability is one that only the rider knows. No one is out to "upstage" any one with regards to riding ability. Please ride within yours and the rides will be much more enjoyable for everyone. My rule of thumb is to NEVER ride behind someone that is slower than me because it takes me out of my natural flow on the roads. If I have to break mid turn because someone is easing through it, I'm putting myself and anyone behind me in a hairy situation. Also, everyone should know how to ride in a group, i.e. 2 second rule, etc. and know all of the hand signals used for communication, i.e., one finger pointing straight up to indicate single file riding, foot signals, etc. We should go over these every ride. It will only make all of us better is we ride with people whom we don't know. Second point of size and speed of the group is a coordination point. Smaller groups are just more manageable. There is no reason why we can't start off with smaller groups (6) and then let the people ride into different groups through natural selection. If you can catch the group in front of you, fine and you won't be running into point number 1. We always have natural regrouping points along the way and I don't mind waiting for any one and appreciate it when people wait for me. Finally, mechanically sound bikes are the easiest way not to get surprised. Always check air pressure before riding which will cause you to LOOK at your tire wear. There is no excuse for worn tires, not even money. Just save up and don't ride because hospital bills and fairings cost a lot more than a new set of Dunlop's (mounted too). By default, keeping your bike clean will cause you to put your hands on every part of your bike and notice anything that may need tightening or repair, I haven't seen a dirty bike yet which is good. I think there should be a mandatory plan if we have an incident. First, check and see if the rider is OK then check the condition of the bike. If the bike is rideable, or should I say appears to be, continue or that rider should head back to the barn because a hidden crack in a frame is NOT safe and can lead to a catastrophic failure in machinery. EVERYONE must take responsibility for their machines. We all should have a plan if something should happen to someone's bike. And the answer is not Danny's wife! I'm not going to burden anyone with my mishap as long as I can walk and talk. We all need to carry cell phones, have a number to call if our rides become unrideable, have our insurance cards on us somewhere with a number to get in touch with a friend or relative if we need to have them meet us somewhere. I'm not trying to be cold or even a DICK but I don't think 26 riders need to stop and wait until someone is taken care of. The faster we can establish a plan for the incident, the faster we can all get back on the ride. As long as no one is hurt it should be OK for that person to wait and get picked up. If someone wants to volunteer to stay with that person that's cool too. Just know the ride plan and catch up later. If you don't know the ride plan, carry a print out of it. The easiest way to see the route is to put some masking tape on your gas tank and write the important turns on it in big black letters: L Rt. 55, R rt. 278, L rt. 66, etc. Then we should lose less riders, right. This is just common sense and good preparation. The rides will be more efficient and enjoyable if we all practice good motorcycle etiquette. I love riding with you all and will see you out there again. BANNON R6 Bannon P. Wysocki Region Manager Corporate Express Promotional Marketing Mid-Atlantic 1307 Ross Drive, SW, Vienna, VA 22180 Office: 703.242.4413 Fax: 703.783.8643 bannon.wysocki@XXXXXX -----Original Message----- From: Charles V. Pena [SMTP:cvkgpena@XXXXXX] Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2000 7:07 PM To: DC Cycles; Bannon Wysocki Subject: Saturday ride - not the best We had a glorious day for riding today. And 20+ people showed up at the Sheetz to ride. But you know what they way about the best laid plans... With that many people, we decided that it would be best to sub-divide into at least 2, if not 3, groups of riders -- with Danny taking the lead. Turns out we lost 3 riders almost right away, i.e., the turn off of 55 to go to 17 and then to Warrenton, (and nobody even really noticed!) -- Fred, Han, and Sanath. Fortunately, Fred knew where we were headed and got there via another route. According to Fred and Han, somewhere along the way Sanath just took off -- and to the best of my knowledge, was not seen again. The rest of us took Old Waterloo Rd. out of Warrenton to get to Crest Rd. and then onto Flint Hill and 211. I was riding sweep and saw a bunch off guys both on and off motorcycles to the side of the road. My first thought was that someone went down. Fortunately, that was not the case. Broken chain. Rider on a Yam FZR (sorry, but I know I didn't meet everyone and I also know I can't remember everyone's names!) After finding out what had happened I continued up the road to catch Danny and the rest of the group. Well, I guess they figured out something was wrong because I eventually caught them back-tracking. Anyway, we re-grouped and hung out in a gravel driveway off the side of the road while Danny called his wife and asked her to bring his truck to load up the FZR to take back to wherever. Danny volunteered to stay and said he would catch up with us at the base of the mountain (Dixie gas/gift shop). Todd Peer got volunteered to lead the "front" group out to Flint Hill and 211. I led the "back" group out after giving Todd a few minutes head start. On the way up the mountain, I noticed Han Park (and his bike, purple F2) standing on the side of the road. He looked calm and relaxed so I figured he was just taking a break (strange place for a break) and/or waiting for us (but why?) It turns out that Han and Fred (having lost Sanath) beat everyone to the mountain and had made at least one (if not two) runs already (even before the front group). What I didn't know at the time was that Han had lowsided in one of the turns. Fortunately, he was OK (although I have absolutely no idea how his butt managed to survive sliding wearing only jeans!) As best we could tell, the damage was mostly cosmetic (scuffed up left side fairing and broken windshield). But the F2 was ridable. The culprit in this accident may have been the front tire. Upon inspection, it was more than apparent that the tire had seen better days. Further up the road, there was a bit of chaos with lots of bikes off to the side and lots of people giving the "slow down" signal. Apparently, Kirt Senser (F4) also lowsided. The culprit in this accident was in all likelihood sand/gravel in the road. Bannon was riding in front of Kirt and he said he felt his back end step out and then looked in his mirrors and saw Kirt going down. BTW, I didn't witness either Han's or Kirt's crashes so others may have better details about what happened. Anyway, Kirt was/is OK. For those that are wondering, Aerostitch suits work! But his bike was/is not. The damage was more than cosmetic. In fact, it was not ridable back down the mountain. I went to the top and turned around to re-group with whoever was either at the top and/or following me. I then went back down the mountain and just waited/chilled at the Dixie gas/gift shop (there were already lots of lots of people helping out at the side of the road). Eventually, everyone drifted back down the mountain and parked it. Kirt caught a ride on the back of someone's m/c and left his F4 up on the mountain. We all waited for Danny to show up to figure out how best to handle this particular situation. When he finally did, Danny called the Honda Owner's Club to get a truck to come out to get Kirt's bike. Once again, Danny volunteered to stick around until help arrived. I was running out of riding time, so announced that I was heading back to civilization. Todd Peer led those who still wanted to ride up over Thornton Gap and then up to Front Royal. Hopefully, the rest of their ride was uneventful. A handful of us basically back-tracked on most of the roads we rode out on and went back to Marshall and eventually got on I-66 (at 15) to drone back in. I know I got 200 miles of riding, but definitely not "quality" miles. Certainly, not the best of days riding. I am glad that Han and Kirt are OK (even though there bikes are in various states of not-OK). I hope the rest of the ride with Todd went OK for everyone. I would've like to joined, but had to be home at 2pm and got home pretty much on time. I'm still doing the Monday ride leaving from The Java Shack at 9:30am (meet for espressos/lattes at 9am). We'll go up into Montgomery and Frederick Counties. 2-3 hours of riding. I've got some roads I want to check out so the pace won't be blistering. Everyone have a safe and happy 4th of July! Cheers, Skittles, aka Chuck -- "Wherever you go, there you are." -- Buckaroo Banzai visit us at http://www.geocities.com/the_penas From dc-cycles-request Mon Jul 3 11:01:41 2000 From: Eternity23@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 11:01:12 EDT Subject: Riding Apparel To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX For those of you contemplating kevlar jeans/riding gear, I highly recommend Joe Rocket's 'Blaster'(?) pants. Fellow lister Colleen Bray runs a new/used leather buisness, and carries brand new Joe Rocket items. I bought a pair from her, (Joe Rocket's suggested retail is $250...I payed around $200+tax) and have been thoroughly pleased. Armor in the shins/knees, reinforced padding over the hip bones, and double leather in the seat. Comfortable, inexpensive, and MUCH better than even kevlar jeans. The URL for Colleen's site is... http://members.aol.com/moto rle/index.html -Sean Jordan WERA Novice #230 '93 CBR1000F (street) '89 ZX7 (race) Sponsors: Fastlane Cycles Phoenix Comics & Toys From dc-cycles-request Mon Jul 3 13:31:44 2000 From: LilBkrBabe@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 13:30:57 EDT Subject: Bike for sale! To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX CC: LIKEAMU@XXXXXX --part1_15.6018ab4.269227d1_boundary Thought ya'll like to know about a Katana for sale! Enjoy, Lee --part1_15.6018ab4.269227d1_boundary From: LIKEAMU@XXXXXX Full-name: LIKEAMU Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 10:13:55 EDT Subject: Re: **JULY 9 RIDE CONFIRM** To: LilBkrBabe@XXXXXX hi lee,sorry i haven`t made it out.looks like that isn`t going to happen this year.i am selling my bike to help pay for a truck i just bought.hopefully i can get a new one by next summer.maybe you could put the word out for me to anyone looking for a bike.i have a 94 suzuki katana 600,purple and black,8000 miles on it.some performance work done,2 helmets and a cover.just had the oil changed and bike tuned up.all for 3100.00 or best offer.anyone interested can email me.thanks, joe p.s keep me on your email list i like the diary entrees. --part1_15.6018ab4.269227d1_boundary-- From dc-cycles-request Mon Jul 3 13:59:28 2000 Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 14:05:07 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Lisa Goddard Subject: Wedding? A wedding that I would not have minded being a bridesmaid in http://www.fredericknewspost.com/display.cfm?storyid=6042 Lisa Goddard '95 VFR From dc-cycles-request Mon Jul 3 14:54:17 2000 From: "Kathleen Loerich" To: , "Lisa Goddard" Subject: Re: Wedding? Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 14:57:15 -0400 I didn't get to go to the wedding because of work. But I was at the reception. Everyone who was at the wedding had a great time, especially the trip from the church to the reception. k.loerich ----- Original Message ----- From: Lisa Goddard To: