From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 1 07:43:41 2005 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 04:43:34 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Ray Subject: MC Trailer To: DC Cycles FYI - A friend sent me a link to another trailer that's now on the market. Looks like a pretty good design. http://www.portachopper.com/default.htm Of course, I may be biased, since it's pretty darn close to what I built last year. http://share.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=EeCN2LRs5aNWFK I only wish I was getting royalties. Oh well. Brian From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 1 09:03:13 2005 From: To: Subject: Re: MC Trailer Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 9:03:05 -0500 > > From: Brian Ray > Date: 2005/02/01 Tue AM 07:43:34 EST > To: DC Cycles > Subject: MC Trailer > > FYI - > > A friend sent me a link to another trailer that's now > on the market. Looks like a pretty good design. > > http://www.portachopper.com/default.htm eek! $1,200 and fenders are an *option*?? That's even more than the bloated overpriced "Trailer in a Bag". > > Of course, I may be biased, since it's pretty darn > close to what I built last year. > > http://share.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=EeCN2LRs5aNWFK > ..personally, I think your trailer looks *much* sturdier than the Portachopper or the Trailer in a Bag setups and I'm willing to bet you didn't spend HALF that amount. Your's isn't a breakdown type though is it? -aki From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 1 09:12:55 2005 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 06:12:48 -0800 (PST) From: Ryan Santoso Subject: Re: MC Trailer To: adamme1@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX I just bought a (5x8) utility trailer from Northern Tools for $500. I've used it to load to bikes without any issues. Ryan __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do? http://my.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 1 13:08:23 2005 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 13:07:51 EST Subject: Re: MC Trailer To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I just bought one of those MotoTote thingies. Haven't opened the box yet but, I'll give a review once I have. Scooter. In a message dated 2/1/2005 9:13:14 AM Eastern Standard Time, santosor2001@XXXXXX writes: I just bought a (5x8) utility trailer from Northern Tools for $500. I've used it to load to bikes without any issues. Ryan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 1 15:48:07 2005 Subject: Where my bike and I have been Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 15:48:02 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: See, I have had my boxers in a twist over all the salt on the road and waiting to maybe get 3M paint protection on my bike from an outfit in Sterling called RoadBlock. So as each morning has passed, I stick my head out the door and decide it is too wet; too salty; and too cold to take my new bike out. Before the word poser comes to my mind, I am and will ride my bike all time, but it is my wish to keep it running smooth and as shiny as can be because I like taking care of something that takes care of me and a clean, shiny bike makes me happy. It has been sitting in a garage at about 54 miles on the odometer. I broke today....starting and riding my bike around the garage is not enough. Ducking out of work in a flash of red and black, I made a beeline to my bike. Checked tire pressures...a little low. Started the bike. WHOA....there was this angry, bass rumbling from the engine....use me or lose me. Took a nice 30 mile jaunt up and around Arlington to Fairlington and back. It is hard to vary the RPM range on the 66 and 395 without grabbing the clutch. The engine seemed to smooth out. I get to the Sunoco on Quaker Lane and realize I forgot my dollars so no gas or air for my bike. By the time I snuck it back, the engine was running hot at 199 (F) degrees. I cut the engine, but then mindful of y'alls council about putting a horse away wet...decided to let the engine idle. This was a bad idea as the temp shot up to 225 (F) in no time. So I shut it down and headed for the office. Happy and giddy to be on two wheels once again, I forgot to mention one ominoius metallic ker-klunk when shifting gears from fourth to fifth. As it only happened once, maybe the clutch was not fully engaged. I am riding the bike every day from here on in, and if I don't make it to the paint protection shop and they can't fit me in then I suppose that is how it is going to be. My fingers are still cold but I am a happy man. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 1 15:48:52 2005 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 12:48:45 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Ray Subject: Re: MC Trailer To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Actually, it's pretty scary how close that design is to what I started with. Yeah, mine is a take-down setup, but takes more tools. Probably is a bit sturdier as a result. You'll always get a bit more play when you have pins vs. bolts. It *is* a bit more expensive than the trailer-in-a-bag (TIAB) setup, but IMHO it's a better design. The torsion axle of the portachopper (and mine) is a huge improvement over the unsuspended TIAB design. Yeah, $1200 is steep, but pretty close to being in-line for whats on the market these days. I probably have $400 in materials in mine, plus 30 hours of labor between my friend and me. Yeah, there's much cheaper trailers that do a good job. Still, the torsion axle leads to a much lower loading height, and a related much easier loading process. I also like the idea of being able to take mine apart and put it inside my grand cherokee if I ever need to. YMMV Brian --- adamme1@XXXXXX wrote: > > > > From: Brian Ray > > Date: 2005/02/01 Tue AM 07:43:34 EST > > To: DC Cycles > > Subject: MC Trailer > > > > FYI - > > > > A friend sent me a link to another trailer that's > now > > on the market. Looks like a pretty good design. > > > > http://www.portachopper.com/default.htm > > eek! $1,200 and fenders are an *option*?? > > That's even more than the bloated overpriced > "Trailer > in a Bag". > > > > > > Of course, I may be biased, since it's pretty darn > > close to what I built last year. > > > > > http://share.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=EeCN2LRs5aNWFK > > > > > ..personally, I think your trailer looks *much* > sturdier > than the Portachopper or the Trailer in a Bag setups > and > I'm willing to bet you didn't spend HALF that > amount. > Your's isn't a breakdown type though is it? > > -aki > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 1 16:18:44 2005 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 13:18:36 -0800 (PST) From: "James O'Connor" Subject: Re: Where my bike and I have been To: Julian Halton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Congrats on breaking the habit of not riding the bike because of.....something.....the weather is doing. I have been without my bike since last Thursday, as I just moved to a new place (behind the clock tower in Herndon) and I haven't had the opportunity to bring it home. But, today I wore my riding boots on the bus, because I'm riding her home tonight, cold weather be darned ;) . And I'm gonna stay on it come everything but icy roads. A few days of figuring out a new bus/metro system is more than I want to deal with right now - I need my bike back...........if you see a green ZRX on the 267, that'd be me :) - Jimmy --- Julian Halton wrote: > See, I have had my boxers in a twist over all the salt on the road > and > waiting to maybe get 3M paint protection on my bike from an outfit > in > Sterling called RoadBlock. So as each morning has passed, I stick > my > head out the door and decide it is too wet; too salty; > and too cold to take my new bike out. Before the word poser comes > to my > mind, I am and will ride my bike all time, but it is my wish to > keep it > running smooth and as shiny as can be because I like taking care of > something that takes care of me and a clean, shiny bike makes me > happy. > It has been sitting in a garage at about 54 miles on the odometer. > > I broke today....starting and riding my bike around the garage is > not > enough. Ducking out of work in a flash of red and black, I made a > beeline to my bike. Checked tire pressures...a little low. Started > the > bike. WHOA....there was this angry, bass rumbling from the > engine....use me or lose me. Took a nice 30 mile jaunt up and > around > Arlington to Fairlington and back. It is hard to vary the RPM range > on > the 66 and 395 without grabbing the clutch. The engine seemed to > smooth > out. I get to the Sunoco on Quaker Lane and realize I forgot my > dollars > so no gas or air for my bike. By the time I snuck it back, the > engine > was running hot at 199 (F) degrees. I cut the engine, but then > mindful > of y'alls council about putting a horse away wet...decided to let > the > engine idle. This was a bad idea as the temp shot up to 225 (F) in > no > time. > > So I shut it down and headed for the office. Happy and giddy to be > on > two wheels once again, I forgot to mention one ominoius metallic > ker-klunk when shifting gears from fourth to fifth. As it only > happened > once, maybe the clutch was not fully engaged. > > I am riding the bike every day from here on in, and if I don't make > it > to the paint protection shop and they can't fit me in then I > suppose > that is how it is going to be. My fingers are still cold but I am a > happy man. > > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 1 16:53:16 2005 Subject: RE: Where my bike and I have been Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 16:53:08 -0500 From: "Jonathan W. Kalmes" To: >I am riding the bike every day from here on in, and if I don't >make it to the paint protection shop and they can't fit me in >then I suppose that is how it is going to be. My fingers are >still cold but I am a happy man. Cool... Glad someone's able to ride. Mine is in pieces in the garage waiting for me to finish wiring up a bunch of accessories. Of course, I've been sick as a dog for the last couple of weeks, so I haven't gotten anywhere close to done. :( I'd say that *EVERY* day is a bit high on the expectation chart... The weathermen are still arguing about it, but it looks like Thursday and Friday could be another coating of sleet and snow. :( Hopefully they're over-reacting and I can get my scoot up and running by then. --smthng http://spaces.msn.com/members/smthng From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 2 08:29:28 2005 Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 08:29:00 -0500 From: Dave Yates Subject: evil cell chatters To: DCCycles http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6895319/ Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 2 08:57:55 2005 Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 05:57:46 -0800 (PST) From: Isaac Blanck Subject: New Harley Sportster To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I'm thinking about getting the 2005 Sportster, the 1200 Custom. It lists for just under $10k. At the moment I have a 2002 Suzuki Marauder with 22,600 miles on it. I live and work in the city, so on one hand I like having a bike that's nimble enough for city riding. However, I also go on longer trips; it's not uncommon for me to ride 1500 miles on a 3 day weekend in the summer. So I want a bike that's a 'tweener; not great for city riding or touring, but decent at both. The Marauder is OK at this. However, the new Sportster is rubber mounted and has a 4.5 gallon tank, and got a pretty good review in the last issue of the AMA magazine. Anyone have this bike that can give me a first hand report on how it rides, or anyone have any additional info on the bike? Also, the closest dealership to me would be the one in Fort Washington, MD, but I guess Patriot Harley wouldn't be that much farther. Any recommendations on where to get it, if I decide to go ahead? Obviously price and quality of service would be factors, but another would be how I get from the dealership to the city when I drop the bike off for service. At the moment I go to Coleman Power Sports in Falls Church, and I can take a $6 cab ride from dealership to the metro which is reasonably convenient. Thanks for any thoughts. jib __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 2 09:25:39 2005 From: "W.S." To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: RE: Where my bike and I have been Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 09:25:14 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" . . . snip as shiny as can be because I like taking care of something that takes care of me and a clean, shiny bike makes me happy. . . . snip -------------- For temporary surface shielding, try clear shelf paper on vulnerable areas. Been using it for years after a tip off this list, replacing every year or so, though should have converted to some kind of a permanent coating. Bill S. / DC (on digest) '99 VN750 > Wildly veer to avoid dings. Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 2 10:29:46 2005 Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 10:29:38 -0500 From: smthng else To: DC Cycles Subject: Coolant Got a couple of "winterish" question for everyone... My FJR says that if the coolant level is low I should "add coolant" (real helpful manual). Every bottle of anti-freeze I have says to use a 50/50 mix of anti-freeze and water. So... Should I add a 50/50 mix to my bike, or just straight anti-freeze? Any problems with mixing the types of anti-freeze? I have no idea what the dealer used. --smthng http://spaces.msn.com/members/smthng/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 2 11:31:28 2005 Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 11:22:02 -0500 From: skip To: you@XXXXXX CC: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Coolant in my experience: just top it off with some straight coolant. coolant/anti-freeze is at it's peak of cooling/not freezing at a 50/50 mix. using a slightly different mix will nto drastically affect the desired properties, nor will it introduce undisired properties. throw a little straight coolant in. it'll be fine. what I wouldn't do is throw in straight water. if it doesn't get mixed, it will freeze. that's bad. AMHIK http://tinyurl.com/52suk smthng else wrote: > > Got a couple of "winterish" question for everyone... My FJR says that > if the coolant level is low I should "add coolant" (real helpful > manual). Every bottle of anti-freeze I have says to use a 50/50 mix > of anti-freeze and water. So... > > Should I add a 50/50 mix to my bike, or just straight anti-freeze? > > Any problems with mixing the types of anti-freeze? I have no idea > what the dealer used. > > --smthng > http://spaces.msn.com/members/smthng/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 2 11:43:49 2005 Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 11:42:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Coolant To: you@XXXXXX Cc: DC Cycles From: "garcia oliver" you@XXXXXX writes: >Got a couple of "winterish" question for everyone... My FJR says that >if the coolant level is low I should "add coolant" (real helpful >manual). Every bottle of anti-freeze I have says to use a 50/50 mix >of anti-freeze and water. So... > >Should I add a 50/50 mix to my bike, or just straight anti-freeze? 50/50 > > >Any problems with mixing the types of anti-freeze? I have no idea >what the dealer used. I haven't heard of problems with mixing. Honda water pumps prefer abrasive/silicate-free antifreeze. There is also non-toxic propylene glycol antifreeze that costs about $1 more per gallon than the common ethylene glycol version. --garcia )B“How is it that the American government was 100 percent certain that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction, but zero percent able to find them?)B” ---Hans Blix, UN chief weapons inspector > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 2 12:34:58 2005 From: "Rob Sharp" To: you@XXXXXX, DC Cycles Subject: Re: Coolant Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 12:46:16 -0500 Always 50/50 should be added to the bike. If it's not 50/50 then you are expected to cut it with water yourself. I like 50/50 cause it's more convient. Rob On Wed, 2 Feb 2005 10:29:38 -0500, smthng else wrote > Got a couple of "winterish" question for everyone... My FJR says > that if the coolant level is low I should "add coolant" (real > helpful manual). Every bottle of anti-freeze I have says to use a > 50/50 mix of anti-freeze and water. So... > > Should I add a 50/50 mix to my bike, or just straight anti-freeze? > > Any problems with mixing the types of anti-freeze? I have no idea > what the dealer used. > > --smthng > http://spaces.msn.com/members/smthng/ -- Rob Sharp rob@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 2 12:40:49 2005 From: "Rob Sharp" To: DC Cycles Subject: GPS and maps Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 12:52:09 -0500 I was riding around arlington and DC the other night and my GPS was completely useless. I have a Garmin GPS V with CitySelect maps that are probably a few years old. Anyhow the GPS was telling me exits that didn't exist and was having trouble keep locked on the roads. I figured there has been so many changes over the past few year it's just no accurate anymore. Has anyone else encountered this ? I am thinkging I might need some new maps for DC since being from the Burbs I depend on the GPS to guide me around in the District. It happens in PA on RT 15 too since they have done a lot of changes on it too. Rob -- Rob Sharp rob@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 2 14:07:43 2005 From: "Perry Coleman" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: GPS and maps Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 14:04:51 -0500 I also have the GPS V and Mapsource/City Select. The last "upgrade" was in mid-2003. Since then, there have been patches, but no updates to the database. So, any changes in the last two years or so won't be reflected. And yes, I run into the same problem with different areas that are undergoing (or have recently underwent) construction. You've just got to know when to believe the GPS and when to believe the signage... ;^) Perry >From: "Rob Sharp" >To: DC Cycles >Subject: GPS and maps >Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 12:52:09 -0500 > >I was riding around arlington and DC the other night and my GPS was >completely >useless. I have a Garmin GPS V with CitySelect maps that are probably a >few >years old. Anyhow the GPS was telling me exits that didn't exist and was >having trouble keep locked on the roads. I figured there has been so many >changes over the past few year it's just no accurate anymore. Has anyone >else >encountered this ? I am thinkging I might need some new maps for DC since >being from the Burbs I depend on the GPS to guide me around in the >District. >It happens in PA on RT 15 too since they have done a lot of changes on it >too. > >Rob > >-- >Rob Sharp >rob@XXXXXX > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 2 15:16:46 2005 Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 15:16:42 -0500 From: Michael Jordan To: Perry Coleman Subject: Re: GPS and maps Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > I also have the GPS V and Mapsource/City Select. The last "upgrade" was in > mid-2003. Since then, there have been patches, but no updates to the > database. The only updates on the Garmin website are for the base program - map database updates are always for ca$h. I believe that City Select is up to version 6 or 7 now. Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 2 15:44:03 2005 Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 15:43:55 -0500 From: smthng else To: DC Cycles Subject: Helmet? Hey all, Just putting this out there because it was sent to me... It seems that the helmet law for VA is being put up to a vote again sometime real soon (not sure exactly when)... http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?051+ful+HB1828 Thought you all might be interested. If I can find out any more details about when it's being voted on, I'll let ya know. --smthng http://spaces.msn.com/members/smthng/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 4 02:20:50 2005 Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 19:35:04 -0500 Subject: Easy Rider??? From: Bob McKeithen To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20040701 (2.0) at filter02.roc.ny.frontiernet.net It is on right now and I cannot for the life of me see why we consider this mess a classic. My summary--Drug dealer makes a big sale and heads East a t speeds approaching 30 MPH while uttering deeply significant observations and winds up getting beat up and shot dead by locals. WFT Bob From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 4 03:02:09 2005 Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 03:02:31 -0500 To: Bob McKeithen , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "Mike B." Subject: Re: Easy Rider??? At 07:35 PM 2/3/05 -0500, Bob McKeithen wrote: >It is on right now and I cannot for the life of me see why we consider >this mess a classic. My summary--Drug dealer makes a big sale and heads >East a t speeds approaching 30 MPH while uttering deeply significant >observations and winds up getting beat up and shot dead by locals. WFT Alternate description: A pair of non-conformist entrepreneurs complete a big deal successfully, and take a vacation on bikes, using the free time made possible by their success to explore life's options, have some good times, and relax. Conformist society, primarily motivated by prejudice and fear of those who would exercise real freedom rather than the illusion of it sanctioned by that society, resorts to violence and kills one of the partners, ending the vacation, and the dreams of freedom it represented. Yes, if you totally miss all the symbolism, and ignore the culture at the time it was made, it's just a drug dealer and his buddy put-putting around until killed. Enough people didn't miss the symbolism and the cultural setting though to make it a classic and a fair description of the attitude and problems of the times. -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 4 07:20:39 2005 Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 07:20:31 -0500 From: "De Boeser, Tom" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Easy Rider??? Bob McKeithen wrote: > It is on right now and I cannot for the life of me see why we > consider this mess a classic. My summary--Drug dealer makes a big sale > and heads East a t speeds approaching 30 MPH while uttering deeply > significant observations and winds up getting beat up and shot dead by > locals. WFT > I believe its considered a classic due to the writing and the filmmakers talent. IMOH, its ok, little strange. Its definitely no _On Any Given Sunday_ or _Faster_. Tom de - '03 ST1300 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 4 09:50:40 2005 From: bernescut@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Easy Rider??? Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 09:49:56 -0500 I wonder if years from now they'll look back on the Starboyz video with the same nostalgia now held for Easy Riders. Cedric Bernescut 2000 CBR600F4 Annandale, VA -----Original Message----- From: De Boeser, Tom [mailto:tdeboeser@XXXXXX] To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Easy Rider??? Bob McKeithen wrote: > It is on right now and I cannot for the life of me see why we > consider this mess a classic. My summary--Drug dealer makes a big sale > and heads East a t speeds approaching 30 MPH while uttering deeply > significant observations and winds up getting beat up and shot dead by > locals. WFT > I believe its considered a classic due to the writing and the filmmakers talent. IMOH, its ok, little strange. Its definitely no _On Any Given Sunday_ or _Faster_. Tom de - '03 ST1300 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 4 10:07:53 2005 Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 10:07:38 -0500 From: Paul Wilson To: Bob McKeithen Subject: Re: Easy Rider??? Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 19:35:04 -0500, Bob McKeithen wrote: > It is on right now and I cannot for the life of me see why we consider > this mess a classic. My summary--Drug dealer makes a big sale and heads > East a t speeds approaching 30 MPH while uttering deeply significant > observations and winds up getting beat up and shot dead by locals. WFT > > Bob I think I'm with Bob on this one. One of the primary attractions seems to be all the folklore and spirit of the times surrounding the picture, not the picture itself, which as Bob points out, is barely watchable. The fact that all the principals spent a good portion of the production time high as a kite prolly has something to do with that. Furthermore, I have little use for all that "outlaw biker" crap, not to mention garishly appointed and virtually unrideable "chopper" motorcycles. "Easy Rider" stoked that all that silliness. It continues on with the things like the high profile of the Orange County Blowhards and what passes for "biker" culture in the popular imagination. -- Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR - 90 KLR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 4 10:09:05 2005 X-OB-Received: from unknown (205.158.62.81) by wfilter.us4.outblaze.com; 4 Feb 2005 15:08:54 -0000 From: "David Blumgart" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 10:08:52 -0500 Subject: RE: Easy Rider >> It is on right now and I cannot for the life of me see >> why we consider this mess a classic.... I'm with you. It's a trainwreck. Bad script, bad acting (Nicholson excepted, of course)dumb ideas. It's one of those movies that I thought was far out when I saw it in 1969, and should never, ever have watched again, remaining content with the memories. But to answer your implied question, its reputation stems from its innovation: it was the first time a credible version of the emerging alternative life-style (freaks, hippies, whatever) was portrayed on the screen. And choppers too. It might be their first screen appearance, and I believe heralded a whole bunch of really, really crappy biker movies in the 70's, many with Peter Fonda, if I recall correctly. In fact, I think we've Easy Rider to thank for that whole OC chopper deal, which is another excellent reason to hate the movie. And the Nicholson characters's death and the ending murders prefigures the whole tone of the polarized and paranoid early 70's. Lordy, that decade sucked. -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 4 10:49:15 2005 Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 10:49:06 -0500 From: Robert To: Bob McKeithen Subject: Re: Easy Rider??? Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Unfortunately I saw it at the tender age of six years of age (not sure why my dad thought this was "family entertainment"), and the shooting scene gave me nightmares for years... I wonder if that's why I always give pickups trucks such a leery eye when they pull alkongside? ;-) Robert On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 19:35:04 -0500, Bob McKeithen wrote: > It is on right now and I cannot for the life of me see why we consider > this mess a classic. My summary--Drug dealer makes a big sale and heads > East a t speeds approaching 30 MPH while uttering deeply significant > observations and winds up getting beat up and shot dead by locals. WFT > > Bob > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 4 11:18:58 2005 Subject: Not so easy Easy Rider Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 11:18:56 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: "David Blumgart" , http://media.skoopy.com/vids/vid_00438.wmv From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 4 12:12:44 2005 From: "Rob Sharp" To: "Julian Halton" , "David Blumgart" , Subject: Re: Not so easy Easy Rider Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 12:24:25 -0500 They need a speed camera at the corner. :-p On Fri, 4 Feb 2005 11:18:56 -0500, Julian Halton wrote > http://media.skoopy.com/vids/vid_00438.wmv -- Rob Sharp rob@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 4 12:21:53 2005 X-OB-Received: from unknown (205.158.62.81) by wfilter.us4.outblaze.com; 4 Feb 2005 17:21:46 -0000 From: "David Blumgart" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: julian@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 12:21:46 -0500 Subject: Not so Easy Rider That's a corner I plan to avoid. I do admire a couple of those drivers. In the second group, the guy in the white car does some nice defensive moves, albeit aided by a lack of oncoming traffic. The driver of the little yellow (Fiat?) pulls it out nicely, too. OTOH, the guy on the bike was hosed before he even gets to the turn. MSF for him -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 4 12:33:43 2005 Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 12:34:10 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "Mike B." Subject: Re: Not so easy Easy Rider At 11:18 AM 2/4/05 -0500, Julian Halton wrote: > > http://media.skoopy.com/vids/vid_00438.wmv Looks like the bike rider went down early. The guy in the second cut, in the white car, did a fantastic job of avoiding the collision. Damn good driving there. Wonder if he'd been around that corner before? ;-) -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 4 12:36:28 2005 Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 12:36:56 -0500 To: "David Blumgart" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "Mike B." Subject: Re: Not so Easy Rider Cc: julian@XXXXXX At 12:21 PM 2/4/05 -0500, David Blumgart wrote: >aided by a lack of oncoming traffic. The driver of the little yellow (Fiat?) Looked a bit like a Citroen 2CV. It looks like it's raining, but given how easily some of those vehicles lost traction, I'm wondering if there isn't some ice involved? Maybe that building shades that spot or something. -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 4 12:56:20 2005 From: "Kathleen Loerich" To: Subject: Request for Input Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 12:53:50 -0500 A presenter for the upcoming SHA/FHA Traffic Safety Conference on February 9th and 10th asked for input for his presentation. Instead of relying solely on my opinon, I thought I'd extend the request to dc-cycles. --------------------------------------- The Request --------------------------------------- The original "working title" is "What Really Pisses Bikers Off About Highway Issues", but since most of the participants would not see the humor it will be called, "Behind The Handlebars: A Biker's Perspective On Highway Issues". The idea is to address some of the other topics presented at the conference as they concern riders. I will cover topics such as: the inattentive driver, intelligent transportation, highway maintenance (repaving), roadside barriers as well as rider responsibility issues. Any information you have on these issues, or others, that I can incorporate into my presentation would be helpful. ---------------------------- So.... Are there any comments? Kathleen Loerich From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 4 12:57:13 2005 Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 09:56:49 -0800 (PST) From: "James O'Connor" Subject: Re: Not so Easy Rider To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX There has to be ice there. Some of those cars were going mighty slow to have lost traction like they did......and to keep sliding. Poor sap towards the end that clipped the other car must've been knocked out because they weren't making any attempt to control it. > It looks like it's raining, but given how easily some of those > vehicles > lost traction, I'm wondering if there isn't some ice involved? > Maybe that > building shades that spot or something. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 4 13:19:15 2005 Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 13:19:07 -0500 From: Paul Wilson To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Not so Easy Rider On Fri, 4 Feb 2005 09:56:49 -0800 (PST), James O'Connor wrote: > There has to be ice there. I'm not certain that all of them had ice. Some of the incidents happened in May. (The others: Oct., Nov, Jan., Feb.) In some it ice may be a contributing factor, but it appears to be primarily some sort of basic road surface issue/flaw that's exacerbated in the rain. Some of those cars were going mighty slow > to have lost traction like they did......and to keep sliding. It does point out the rather obvious advantages to having four wheels instead of two planted on Mother Earth. None of the cagers went through the curve on their butts. :-/ -- Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR - 90 KLR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 4 13:23:11 2005 Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 13:23:03 -0500 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Request for Input To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >The original "working title" is "What Really Pisses Bikers >Off About Highway Issues", but since most of the >participants would not see the humor it will >be called, "Behind The Handlebars: A Biker's Perspective On >Highway Issues". [Dave] How about "A 2 wheeled perspective". "Biker" conjures up stereotypical images to politicians. "Motorcyclist's" would be an improvement as well. The idea is to address some of the other topics presented at the conference as they concern riders. I will cover topics such as: the inattentive driver, [Dave] Recent studies show cell yakking is dangerous, we've known that for quite some time. Hands free doesn't matter in the studies, and since I don't like yakking while I drive, I'll reserve judgment on whether or not that's true. I do know that statistically, 8 of 10 drivers that cut over on me without a decent gap, or, are poking along in front of me, are yakking on a phone. Get some prop bumper stickers that say SHUT UP AND DRIVE! Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 4 13:51:58 2005 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 13:51:45 EST Subject: Re: Not so Easy Rider To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 2/4/2005 1:26:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, dcmcrider@XXXXXX writes: > but it appears to be primarily some sort > of basic road surface issue/flaw that's exacerbated in the rain. I tried to load the video several times with no luck (dial up) so I have not seen it. But _that_ statement reminded me of a road near where I first began riding. The surface on that damn stretch of road was fine when dry. But wet? Holy shit!!!! Cars, and bikes (including me) constantly slid through intersections with no apparent slowing at all. Used to avoid that road like the plague if it was damp at all. Used to say it was "like driving on ice" Now that I have driven/ridden on ice I can safely say that I was right. They came in and re-paved at the intersections to help with accidents but if you had to apply the brakes in the straightaways between you were still F&*%ed. Also I lived in Vegas for 3 years, there was _never_ enough rain to clean the crap off of the roads. When we did get a little rain all it did was bring all the shit to the surface. That was like riding on ice also... John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC 1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European 1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles 1976, Honda CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 4 15:13:10 2005 Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 12:13:02 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Custer Subject: ST1100 for sale To: DCCycles Cc: teblum@XXXXXX From SabMag list: My 93 ST1100 is for sale. I have decided to keep the V65 Sabre for long trips and the SV650 for short trips and curves. [Carl]: Contact him: not me. After 2000 miles through Baja California on a DR 350, Tom decided he "don't need no steenkin' luxury barge". He's even older than me :^). The bike is the rare (but faded) Candy Glory Red. He lives twixt Tampa and Orlando so you could take a bus, pick up the bike, drive over to T&T week in Daytona, and return in the balmy latter days of March. Tom also does his own wrenching so you won't have any "surprises" that older bikes "fixed" by dealers sometimes offer. Price $2800. 75K miles Needs tires. Has Helibars and Driving Lights and Tank Bra. Paint weathered on the bags. Some Buffing scratches on the front fender. Tom Carl (back from Baja) in Bethesda __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? All your favorites on one personal page )B– Try My Yahoo! http://my.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 4 15:16:13 2005 Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 15:13:44 -0500 To: "Kathleen Loerich" , From: "Mike B." Subject: Re: Request for Input At 12:53 PM 2/4/05 -0500, Kathleen Loerich wrote: >as they concern riders. I will cover topics such as: the inattentive >driver, intelligent transportation, highway maintenance (repaving), roadside >barriers as well as rider responsibility issues. There are lots of possibilities, but the one that comes to mind first as being mildly dangerous (especially to new riders), fairly annoying, and probably not obvious to non-riders is that grooved stuff left behind when they grind off the top layer of a couple of miles of road surface. The paving crews seem to think this mess is as good as a regular road surface, as they open the road to normal traffic again and then often leave it that way for weeks before they get around to re-paving. With cars and trucks they are basically right, but with bikes and their tiny contact patches, the grooves can try to steer the bike for you, and if you tense up or panic at the strange motions you get, could pose a serious safety hazard. I've found that a loose grip, and not trying to fight the shimmy lets me ride on the stuff well enough, but there's still some concern about how it will affect swerves, stops and other emergency maneuvers should they become necessary. Sometimes the grooves aren't too bad, other times they can require a lot of attention to negotiate safely...attention that is no longer available for other required tasks. Those responsible for road maintenance should at least be aware of these issues, and try to limit the potential harm by limiting duration, not doing it to all lanes at once on a given stretch of roadway, or even by limiting the depth of the grooves and standardizing the characteristics a bit better. I'm sure they are already aware of things like potholes, crown roads and the reverse banking they create at curves, traffic light sensors that don't detect bikes, roads that run directly into the rising or setting sun (no real sun visors on bikes...and what we have requires aiming the head down to use), etc., but those are all worth mentioning too. -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 4 17:21:48 2005 From: Daniel To: "Kathleen Loerich" Cc: Subject: Re: Request for Input Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 17:21:24 -0500 You probably already have it covered, but if not, standard metal gaurd rails can be fatal or mutilating to a sliding motorcyclist. If you can, you might want to see if you can get any statistics on the Harry S Truman exit from central avenue. A guy who used to work at clinton cycles lost his legs there. On Fri, 4 Feb 2005 12:53:50 -0500, "Kathleen Loerich" wrote: >A presenter for the upcoming SHA/FHA Traffic Safety Conference on February >9th and 10th asked for input for his presentation. > >Instead of relying solely on my opinon, I thought I'd extend the request to >dc-cycles. > >--------------------------------------- >The Request >--------------------------------------- >The original "working title" is "What Really Pisses Bikers Off About Highway >Issues", but since most of the participants would not see the humor it will >be called, "Behind The Handlebars: A Biker's Perspective On Highway Issues". > >The idea is to address some of the other topics presented at the conference >as they concern riders. I will cover topics such as: the inattentive >driver, intelligent transportation, highway maintenance (repaving), roadside >barriers as well as rider responsibility issues. > >Any information you have on these issues, or others, that I can incorporate >into my presentation would be helpful. >---------------------------- > >So.... Are there any comments? > >Kathleen Loerich > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 4 17:26:06 2005 From: Daniel To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: rubbernecking Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 17:25:31 -0500 I was on the beltway a few days ago, there was an accident on the other side... traffic on my side was slow just because of people gawking. It occured to me if the median were a foot or two higher, most of the cagers wouldn't be able ot see what's going on that side, and woulnd't slow down to be nosey. not only would it speed up traffic but it would prevent some collisions on the non crash side from people running into the back of others or hitting someone else while looking at the accident. If anyone writes to Dr gridlock, throw that in will ya. thanks Anyone wanna guess in how many years it will take them to raise the wall height or never? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 4 17:33:12 2005 From: "Rob Keiser" To: kathleenloerich@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Request for Input Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 17:31:34 -0500 One of my pet peeves...cigarette butts flicked out car/truck windows bouncing off me or my bike. Rob '98 VFR800 From: "Kathleen Loerich" To: Subject: Request for Input Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 12:53:50 -0500 A presenter for the upcoming SHA/FHA Traffic Safety Conference on February 9th and 10th asked for input for his presentation. Instead of relying solely on my opinon, I thought I'd extend the request to dc-cycles. --------------------------------------- The Request --------------------------------------- The original "working title" is "What Really Pisses Bikers Off About Highway Issues", but since most of the participants would not see the humor it will be called, "Behind The Handlebars: A Biker's Perspective On Highway Issues". The idea is to address some of the other topics presented at the conference as they concern riders. I will cover topics such as: the inattentive driver, intelligent transportation, highway maintenance (repaving), roadside barriers as well as rider responsibility issues. Any information you have on these issues, or others, that I can incorporate into my presentation would be helpful. ---------------------------- So.... Are there any comments? Kathleen Loerich From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 4 17:43:37 2005 From: "Rob Sharp" To: "Rob Keiser" , kathleenloerich@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Request for Input Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 17:55:22 -0500 Or it hits my car. I bet if you forced smokers to keep the smoke/ash and butts in their car they might think twice before continuing their habit. Rob On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 17:31:34 -0500, Rob Keiser wrote > One of my pet peeves...cigarette butts flicked out car/truck windows > bouncing off me or my bike. > > Rob > '98 VFR800 > > From: "Kathleen Loerich" > Reply-To: "Kathleen Loerich" > To: > Subject: Request for Input > Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 12:53:50 -0500 > > A presenter for the upcoming SHA/FHA Traffic Safety Conference on > February 9th and 10th asked for input for his presentation. > > Instead of relying solely on my opinon, I thought I'd extend the > request to dc-cycles. > > --------------------------------------- > The Request > --------------------------------------- > The original "working title" is "What Really Pisses Bikers Off About > Highway Issues", but since most of the participants would not see > the humor it will be called, "Behind The Handlebars: A Biker's > Perspective On Highway Issues". > > The idea is to address some of the other topics presented at the > conference as they concern riders. I will cover topics such as: the > inattentive driver, intelligent transportation, highway maintenance > (repaving), roadside barriers as well as rider responsibility issues. > > Any information you have on these issues, or others, that I can > incorporate into my presentation would be helpful. > ---------------------------- > > So.... Are there any comments? > > Kathleen Loerich -- Rob Sharp rob@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 4 17:46:22 2005 Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 17:46:14 -0500 From: Paul Wilson To: Rob Keiser Subject: Re: Request for Input Cc: kathleenloerich@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX My list of pet peeves, in no particular order. 1) Left lane turtles. Note to Hwy. Administrators: if it's the law from slower traffic to move right, let's have lots of signs to that effect. And how about some enforcement. 2) Traffic circles: more of 'em. Traffic lights: fewer of them. 3) Those damned in-pavement loops that don't detect bikes. 4) Milled pavement to not be left from more than 3 calendar days. Put this in the specifications for re-paving contracts. Require contractors to mark edge traps in bright orange paint when milling. 5) Since this concerns Maryland, how about a crackdown on HOV cheaters on 270? My on-bike surveys indicate rampant cheating. 6) Terminate the silly publicity stunt called Operation Road Rocket, if it hasn't happened already. 7) Higher penalties for careless/inattentive driving that results in death or injury. On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 17:31:34 -0500, Rob Keiser wrote: > One of my pet peeves...cigarette butts flicked out car/truck windows > bouncing off me or my bike. > > Rob > '98 VFR800 > -- Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR - 90 KLR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 4 17:51:08 2005 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Request for Input Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 17:50:53 -0500 Legalize lane-splitting aka lane-sharring aka filtering. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 4 22:10:27 2005 From: "W.S." To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: Request for Input Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 22:10:03 -0500 How about measures leaning on the positives motorcycles bring to traffic/parking? Lane splitting/filtering (as mentioned), multiple bikes to a space, special high density parking areas, selective sidewalk parking, and other possible benefits to the urban choke problem. Also have all public garages (gates, insurance) made mc-friendly. Adding to construction nits - steel plates turn slick. Both more pronounced/advanced notification and roughening are needed. And uneven pavement is all too often uncautioned. While we're at it -- how about 270deg.-visible front turn signals, particularly on all trucks? Catch me again in 6 mos. Bill S. / DC (on digest) '99 VN750 > Ban cages. Area roads sans autos are great. Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 4 22:57:15 2005 Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 22:57:07 -0500 From: smthng else To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: rubbernecking > Anyone wanna guess in how many years it will take them to raise the > wall height or never? It's already been raised in most places... that's what the little green slot things are all along the dividing wall. The problem is that there are hills and dips. A car coming down towards a dip can see all the way up the other side and it would take a 30 foot wall to block it. Do I think that the two foot green things are enough? No. Would a bigger wall help? Probably. Couldn't people just freaking pay attention and DRIVE? That would be nice. :S --smthng http://spaces.msn.com/members/smthng/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 4 23:09:04 2005 Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 23:08:57 -0500 From: smthng else To: Kathleen Loerich Subject: Re: Request for Input Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Gravel. Not only cleaning it up off the roadways where it gathers, but how about making VDOT secure it to the road when using it for repairs, instead of just spraying buckets of the stuff on blobs of tar (very similar to the kitty-litter -on-oil-leaks trick - has about the same effect too). On a separate note, simply enforcing standard laws would be a good thing. Prime example... a semi did a U-turn yesterday at a stop light on Braddock where it was clearly posted "No U-Turns". A Ffx Cty cop pulled up and flipped on his lights in order to stop traffic. The semi had to do a 5-point turn and held up traffic through three full cycles of the light. The semi then drove away and the cop went the other way. If I had done that on a bike, you can guarantee I would have been tagged. That's just a personal peeve though... I see people violating basic road rules every day on the way to work and the cops don't care. One of us doesn't spot a speed limit sign and you can bet they'll be there. --smthng http://spaces.msn.com/members/smthng/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 4 23:09:09 2005 Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 23:11:50 -0500 Subject: Re: dc-cycles digest for 02/04/05 From: Bob McKeithen To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20040701 (2.0) at filter02.roc.ny.frontiernet.net > > Yes, if you totally miss all the symbolism, and ignore the culture at > the > time it was made, it's just a drug dealer and his buddy put-putting > around > until killed. Enough people didn't miss the symbolism and the cultural > setting though to make it a classic and a fair description of the > attitude > and problems of the times. I didn't miss the symbolism--thought it was inane and about what a bunch of junior high school playwrights would come up with. Especially the scene early on where the two riders are changing a tire in the background while a couple of ranchers are shoeing a horse in the foreground. ( groan ) Some of the photography was nice though. Bob From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 4 23:47:41 2005 Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 20:47:04 -0800 (PST) From: John Kozyn Subject: Re: dc-cycles digest for 02/04/05 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "rich hall" "Legalize lane-splitting aka lane-sharring aka filtering." Thank you. That about sums up my priorities. The rest I can deal with. Sitting in traffic is f'n ridiculous. Happily Rich, there is this truism: "As goes California, so goes the nation." Hope we get to see it happen. JK 1999 900SS 1995 VFR750F __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? All your favorites on one personal page )B– Try My Yahoo! http://my.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Feb 5 08:44:58 2005 Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 09:02:04 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Biker hit from behind http://www.farson.com/images/bikestop.gif Watch your backs! -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Feb 5 09:02:03 2005 Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 06:01:55 -0800 (PST) From: Todd Withrow Subject: Re: Request for Input To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- "Mike B." wrote: > roads that run directly into the > rising or setting sun (no > real sun visors on bikes...and what we have requires > aiming the head down > to use), etc., but those are all worth mentioning > too. So you want to ban East/West roads? ===== AIM: Inf DS http://www.geocities.com/mtwithrow ----------------------------------------------------------- Used to be that we "worldproofed" our children. Now society wants to childproof the world. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Feb 5 09:21:21 2005 Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 09:21:15 -0500 From: Michael Jordan To: Wayne Edelen Subject: Re: Biker hit from behind Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > http://www.farson.com/images/bikestop.gif > > Watch your backs! Ouch! I don't know how much good my blinking Hyperlites do, but they definitely can't hurt. It was amazing that it took the person in the pickup as long as it did to react to the stopped bike (based on when their brake lights came on). Maybe rig up a ultrasonic rangefinder from an old Polaroid camera to fire a rearward facing paintball gun when a certain distance/velocity parameter has been met? Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Feb 5 09:27:57 2005 Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2005 09:27:55 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: David Blumgart Subject: Re: Biker hit from behind At 09:21 AM 2/5/2005 -0500, you wrote: > > http://www.farson.com/images/bikestop.gif > > > > Watch your backs! > >Ouch! I don't know how much good my blinking Hyperlites do, but they >definitely can't hurt. > >It was amazing that it took the person in the pickup as long as it did >to react to the stopped bike (based on when their brake lights came >on). I'm guessing he was rubbernecking the cop whose camera provided that riveting footage. Idiot. >Maybe rig up a ultrasonic rangefinder from an old Polaroid camera to >fire a rearward facing paintball gun when a certain distance/velocity >parameter has been met? Yeah, that's a good idea From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Feb 5 09:54:04 2005 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: RE: Request for Input Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 09:52:00 -0500 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79c79e83d990ee9d393ef49bfdfd495284350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c A Ffx Cty cop pulled up and flipped on his lights in order to stop traffic. The semi had to do a 5-point turn and held up traffic through three full cycles of the light. The semi then drove away and the cop went the other way. If I had done that on a bike, you can guarantee I would have been tagged. That's just a personal peeve though... I see people violating basic road rules every day on the way to work and the cops don't care. One of us doesn't spot a speed limit sign and you can bet they'll be there. [Dave] The trucker above may have contacted the officer in advance, from what you describe, the officer probably sanctioned the turn, as (s)he is empowered to do. May have been inconvenient, but it beats a collision... Re: road rules. Take the money out of speeding tickets and you'll see that stop. Not overnight, but it will stop not because they're cracking down, because the governments won't be able to afford to... Well, Fairfax will, but they're a lost cause. Fines don't deter us ! Nor high gas prices as we've seen over the past 2 years... I haven't seen a single solitary gas guzzling SUV for cheap during this high gas price boom. Now, if you've got to bail a day of work to work along the road side picking up trash, the state probably isn't going to make any money off it. In fact, it will be a drain on the tax payers. Soon, from on high, the police decision makers will be told to find other busy work during their shifts, or face budget cuts! From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Feb 5 09:54:15 2005 From: "Gary Foreman" To: Subject: RE: Biker hit from behind Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 09:55:29 -0500 It's amazing how many accidents are caused by rubbernecking at the cops. Case in point. I was traveling west on Rt. 7 past Purceville Wed. A state trooper decided he needed to turn around in the emergency crossover in the median. He turned his lights on, and crossed over. About 8 cars in front of me got heavy on the brakes. I had about 6-7 car lengths in front of me so when I saw the chain reaction, I slowed down...heavy, but not standing on the brakes. Two seconds later, I'm plowed in the rear in my 2001 Tundra with on 18k miles on it. Launched the back of my truck off the ground. I laid on the horn so the cop would look over and see what happened. He came back an worked the accident. The guy that hit me took the brunt of it. His hood was almost in his windshield. The bumper is toast on my truck, and it kissed the right corner lightly. I haven't found any other damage yet. My passenger's back is a little sore, and my right shoulder is sore (probably from bracing against the steering wheel) but I'll be fine. Not trying to rake the insurance company or anything. At first I was mad I didn't take my old '91 Accord that day...then I was thinking that I might not be here typing this if I had. Had I been on my bike? Forget it! Guess I'm getting old. After about 10 seconds of being pissed, I started feeling bad for the guy who hit me. He won't be driving home, though physically he was okay. I've been on both sides of this situation. All because the trooper had to turn around in rush hour traffic. He wasn't on an emergency call (since he turned his lights off as soon as the turned around. Of course I'm speculating here. I have no idea why he turned. Of course I won't be complaining since the accident wasn't my fault. But the other guy sure was upset about what caused it. Gary Foreman (happy to be here) -----Original Message----- From: Wayne Edelen [mailto:wayne@XXXXXX] To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Biker hit from behind http://www.farson.com/images/bikestop.gif Watch your backs! -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Feb 5 10:25:41 2005 Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 10:25:33 -0500 From: Michael Jordan To: rich hall Subject: Re: Request for Input Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Legalize lane-splitting aka lane-sharring aka filtering. Different animals - Lane Splitting and Sharing are usually done with all vehicles moving. Filtering is done at stoplights as a bike filters past stopped cars. Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Feb 5 10:31:22 2005 Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 10:31:19 -0500 From: Michael Jordan To: Gary Foreman Subject: Re: Biker hit from behind Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > All because the trooper had to turn around in rush hour traffic. He wasn't > on an emergency call (since he turned his lights off as soon as the turned > around. Of course I'm speculating here. I have no idea why he turned. The ironic part of this whole thing is that he turned his lights on as a safety measure. Ya gotta love it. Glad that you're OK Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Feb 5 13:07:38 2005 Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2005 13:01:53 -0500 To: Todd Withrow , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "Mike B." Subject: Re: Request for Input At 06:01 AM 2/5/05 -0800, Todd Withrow wrote: > >--- "Mike B." wrote: >> roads that run directly into the >> rising or setting sun (no >> real sun visors on bikes...and what we have requires >> aiming the head down >> to use), etc., but those are all worth mentioning >> too. > >So you want to ban East/West roads? No, just the sort I described. Most roads don't run directly into the areas the sun rises into or sets from...they are at least a few degrees off (even allowing for changes in where the sun rises and sets throughout the year). Those that need to head that way often wind a bit, so the places where you are blinded are minimized, and many of those have conveniently placed trees, buildings, walls or hills to limit the line of sight to the thermonuclear furnace glow, so you have a chance of seeing other vehicles, lane markers and other things that improve safety. Unfortunately, not all roads are like that, and some are dangerous to ride at particular times of the day as a result. It also adds to traffic congestion, as even cage drivers have problems with the glare and tend to slow way down...or not and then the resulting accidents tie things up. -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Feb 5 13:07:41 2005 Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2005 13:08:05 -0500 To: Michael Jordan , Wayne Edelen From: "Mike B." Subject: Re: Biker hit from behind Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 09:21 AM 2/5/05 -0500, Michael Jordan wrote: >> http://www.farson.com/images/bikestop.gif >Maybe rig up a ultrasonic rangefinder from an old Polaroid camera to >fire a rearward facing paintball gun when a certain distance/velocity >parameter has been met? The solution was invented many years ago (not sure of the exact date, but I'm fairly sure it was prior to 1990), but has never been implemented. It's a radar (or ultrasonic) range finder on the front of all vehicles that's tied to the brake system. When there's an obstacle too close for the current speed, the brakes are applied. This not only should prevent rear-enders, it will also prevent tailgating...if it was mandatory in all cars the way brake lights, horns, and other safety equipment is. A test I saw on TV had the inventor standing in a parking lot while his son drove at him in the family station wagon. The car stopped with about 6' to spare from 40 mph, with no braking action from the son. That sure demonstrated confidence in the idea! He was going to try to sell it to car makers, but apparently they weren't interested. Perhaps some lobbying would get the DOT to mandate such systems? They shouldn't cost more than the parking sensors some cars now come with for those who can't learn to park... -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Feb 5 13:22:52 2005 Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 13:40:00 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Biker hit from behind On Sat, 5 Feb 2005, Mike B. wrote: > He was going to try to sell it to car makers, but apparently they weren't > interested. Perhaps some lobbying would get the DOT to mandate such > systems? They shouldn't cost more than the parking sensors some cars now > come with for those who can't learn to park... Mercedes has Distronic, Infiniti has lane control software built into their cars (it sounds an alarm if you're wandering, I'm sure others have intelligent cruise control (like the MB Distronic). I think the issue is litigation. If your car is equipped with a system to avoid collisions and you get in an accident, people will sue the manufacturers. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Feb 5 13:53:10 2005 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: RE: Biker hit from behind Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 13:51:07 -0500 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec793c9ff732bd6da2b7fcb2af84e571252a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c It's amazing how many accidents are caused by rubbernecking at the cops. Case in point. I was traveling west on Rt. 7 past Purceville Wed. A state trooper decided he needed to turn around in the emergency crossover in the median. He turned his lights on, and crossed over. About 8 cars in front of me got heavy on the brakes. [Dave] It doesn't even take that.... Of all days... I'm headed to the shooting range one Friday night. West on 66, maybe 1.25 miles from 28N. I'm in the Lightning, traffic is very, very heavy. I decided to not be in a hurry, and had about 3 or 4 cage lengths in front of me. Traffic took off at stop & go pace, I let off the brake, and next thing I know, my truck & I are being shoved forward... I go full brakes, no diff. Traffic ahead slows and stops, and my 3-4 cage lengths is eaten away almost entirely before we stop. A beverage truck behind me did the shoving. The F150 goes close to 5,000, and that guy shoved me like we weren't even there. It wasn't a fast hit, and of all the luck, his substantial bumper hit only the plastic trim on my bumper, leaving nary a mark. U.F.B. Not knowing if there was any other damage, I hit up the VSP, who came, saw & went on his way. I asked the other drive what happened, he said he just mixed up the pedals... yeah. Glad that wasn't in the wife's Escort... Dave From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Feb 5 14:42:58 2005 From: "Jim McGonigle" To: "'Mike B.'" , "'Michael Jordan'" , "'Wayne Edelen'" Cc: Subject: RE: Biker hit from behind Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 14:42:43 -0500 X-PMX-Version: 4.6.0.99824, Antispam-Core: 4.6.1.104326, Antispam-Data: 2005.2.5.4 X-PerlMx-Spam: Gauge=IIIIIII, Probability=7%, Report='__TO_MALFORMED_2 0, __MIME_VERSION 0, __CTYPE_CHARSET_QUOTED 0, __CT_TEXT_PLAIN 0, __CT 0, __CTE 0, __HAS_X_MAILER 0, __IN_REP_TO 0, __UNUSABLE_MSGID 0, SIGNATURE_SHORT_SPARSE 0, __MIME_TEXT_ONLY 0, RELAY_IN_SORBS 0, IN_REP_TO 0' Sounds great until you add in rain, snow, ice, bad roads, gravel, etc... -----Original Message----- From: Mike B. [mailto:omni@XXXXXX] To: Michael Jordan; Wayne Edelen Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Biker hit from behind At 09:21 AM 2/5/05 -0500, Michael Jordan wrote: >> http://www.farson.com/images/bikestop.gif >Maybe rig up a ultrasonic rangefinder from an old Polaroid camera to >fire a rearward facing paintball gun when a certain distance/velocity >parameter has been met? The solution was invented many years ago (not sure of the exact date, but I'm fairly sure it was prior to 1990), but has never been implemented. It's a radar (or ultrasonic) range finder on the front of all vehicles that's tied to the brake system. When there's an obstacle too close for the current speed, the brakes are applied. This not only should prevent rear-enders, it will also prevent tailgating...if it was mandatory in all cars the way brake lights, horns, and other safety equipment is. A test I saw on TV had the inventor standing in a parking lot while his son drove at him in the family station wagon. The car stopped with about 6' to spare from 40 mph, with no braking action from the son. That sure demonstrated confidence in the idea! He was going to try to sell it to car makers, but apparently they weren't interested. Perhaps some lobbying would get the DOT to mandate such systems? They shouldn't cost more than the parking sensors some cars now come with for those who can't learn to park... -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Feb 5 22:26:03 2005 Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 19:25:55 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Request for Input To: Kathleen Loerich , dc-cycles@XXXXXX jk hit it right on the head. my #1 gripe around here is why can't m/cs filter or, when the circumstances permit it, lane split/share. --- Kathleen Loerich wrote: > A presenter for the upcoming SHA/FHA Traffic Safety > Conference on February > 9th and 10th asked for input for his presentation. > > Instead of relying solely on my opinon, I thought I'd > extend the request to > dc-cycles. > > --------------------------------------- > The Request > --------------------------------------- > The original "working title" is "What Really Pisses > Bikers Off About Highway > Issues", but since most of the participants would not see > the humor it will > be called, "Behind The Handlebars: A Biker's Perspective > On Highway Issues". > > The idea is to address some of the other topics presented > at the conference > as they concern riders. I will cover topics such as: the > inattentive > driver, intelligent transportation, highway maintenance > (repaving), roadside > barriers as well as rider responsibility issues. > > Any information you have on these issues, or others, that > I can incorporate > into my presentation would be helpful. > ---------------------------- > > So.... Are there any comments? > > Kathleen Loerich > > > ===== Tom Gimer - http://www.murphygimer.com - http://www.mgtitlellc.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 6 00:04:35 2005 From: Daniel To: "Mike B." Cc: Todd Withrow , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Request for Input Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2005 00:04:17 -0500 95 south from baltimore... man that really can take a sunset and make traffic crawl! You can barely see in front of you. Maybe it's only on certain days.. but those days, the sun is huge and brilliant and blinding.. anyone else recall this? On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 13:01:53 -0500, "Mike B." wrote: >At 06:01 AM 2/5/05 -0800, Todd Withrow wrote: >> >>--- "Mike B." wrote: >>> roads that run directly into the >>> rising or setting sun (no >>> real sun visors on bikes...and what we have requires >>> aiming the head down >>> to use), etc., but those are all worth mentioning >>> too. >> >>So you want to ban East/West roads? > >No, just the sort I described. > >Most roads don't run directly into the areas the sun rises into or sets >from...they are at least a few degrees off (even allowing for changes in >where the sun rises and sets throughout the year). Those that need to head >that way often wind a bit, so the places where you are blinded are >minimized, and many of those have conveniently placed trees, buildings, >walls or hills to limit the line of sight to the thermonuclear furnace >glow, so you have a chance of seeing other vehicles, lane markers and other >things that improve safety. Unfortunately, not all roads are like that, >and some are dangerous to ride at particular times of the day as a result. >It also adds to traffic congestion, as even cage drivers have problems with >the glare and tend to slow way down...or not and then the resulting >accidents tie things up. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 6 00:44:45 2005 Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2005 00:50:40 -0500 Subject: Re: Request for Input To: "Kathleen Loerich" Cc: From: "garcia oliver" Hi, Katherine. Thanks for doing this. My suggestions (without much in the way of evidence or argument, and in no special order): (1) impaired drivers: mandatory one day jail time for first offenders. Even one day is no fun at all. [As an aside, erratic driving behavior is a better criterion than is blood alcohol content.] (2) Ban driver)B’s cell phone use while vehicle’s in motion. (“Shut up and drive.)B”) (3) End the use of police radar (i.e., )B“revenue enhancement”) and get these cops on the road looking for actual dangerous driving. (4) Ok filtering thru stopped traffic. It works fine in California. Calling it )B“reckless driving” is absurd and offensive. (5) Get the slugs out of the left lane, for all the obvious reasons. Post signs ()B“Slower traffic stay right” or some such). Give it a month for this difficult concept to sink in. Then ticket the morons. (6) Require zipper merges when construction or accident closes lane(s). Signs would help with this, too. (7) Ok sidewalk parking where it doesn)B’t impede pedestrian traffic. See San Francisco. (8) Have proof of ability to pay a judgment the size of minimum liability insurance as an alternative to buying such insurance. There are plenty of other things, but I think even the above list would go a long way toward making life more pleasant for everyone on the road, not just bikers. You may also want to talk with bicycle groups. I suspect there are areas of common concern and interest. --garcia )B“I wonder how they reconcile their “Choose Life!” slogans and their support for a president who is responsible for the deaths of 1300 American soldiers and some 100,000 Iraqi civilians.)B” From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 6 00:51:24 2005 Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2005 00:57:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Request for Input To: "Kathleen Loerich" Cc: From: "garcia oliver" I will write "Kathleen" 100 times. "garcia oliver" writes: >Hi, Katherine. Thanks for doing this. My suggestions (without much in >the way of evidence or argument, and in no special order): [snip] From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 6 01:03:55 2005 Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2005 01:04:17 -0500 To: "garcia oliver" , "Kathleen Loerich" From: "Mike B." Subject: Re: Request for Input Cc: At 12:50 AM 2/6/05 -0500, garcia oliver wrote: >(5) Get the slugs out of the left lane, for all the obvious reasons. Post >signs ()B“Slower traffic stay right” or some such). Give it a month for >this difficult concept to sink in. Then ticket the morons. Traffic slower than the speed limit has to move right in all local states. Traffic slower than ambient doesn't have to in Maryland, so long as it's at the speed limit. >(8) Have proof of ability to pay a judgment the size of minimum liability >insurance as an alternative to buying such insurance. Don't know if they've changed it, but when I first moved to Maryland you could post a $20,000 bond in lieu of insurance if you wanted to. The insurance is cheaper. -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 6 08:28:06 2005 From: "Kathleen Loerich" To: Subject: Re: Request for Input - The Results Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 08:25:37 -0500 Thanks to everyone who contributed. I consolidated the comments into one list. In some cases the original contributor will notice blatant plagiarism and others will notice some embellishments. I hope I accurately reflected each contributor's intent. If not, let me know and I'll make any needed corrections. I realize that there are probably a gazillion (my father told me a billion times not to exaggerate) other topics that we didn't include. For example, I know the presenter is going go address the issue of DRLs/Modulated Lights and some other topics. Also, there were a few late breaking comments that I didn't include in the list. I will forward them to the presenter separately. I won't be able to attend the conference myself, but there will be representatives from the motorcycling community in attendance. If anyone on the list is interested, you can get information and register at http://www.ence.umd.edu/mdt2center/. Look for the Traffic Safety Conference link. The dates are Feb 8-9, 2005. If you go, let me know what you thought about it. Kathleen Loerich ------------------------- Safety Conference Input ------------------------- Distracted Drivers Cell-phone yakking is dangerous. Actually any activity inside a vehicle that draws a driver's attention away from the road will ultimately compromise the driver's ability to conduct the task at hand - driving. For cell phones, hands-free doesn't matter. It's the conversation that causes the distraction the phone just amplifies the problem. Flying Debris Anything that flies out of or off of a vehicle has potentially lethal consequences for motorcycle riders. A particular peeve is cigarette butts flicked out car/truck windows bouncing off me or my bike. These can become lodged in a riders clothing or helmet and at a minimum cause mild distress or contribute to a rider's loss of control of the motorcycle. There are a surprising number of things that fall from traveling vehicles. They include but are not limited to cigarettes, paper, plastic bags, toys, clothing, shoes, car parts, tools, ladders, manure (I'm not making this up), suitcases (I'm still not making this up), and rail-road ties (I'm really, really, really not making this up). If it can be carried in or on a vehicle, it can come loose. Dodging these things is a chore and can require frequent underwear changes. Road Debris The corollary to the "what is in a vehicle may come out" axiom is "when it comes out it will be on the road". Milled Pavement One item that can be mildly dangerous (especially to new riders), fairly annoying, and probably not obvious to non-riders is that grooved stuff left behind when they grind off the top layer of a couple of miles of road surface. The paving crews seem to think this mess is as good as a regular road surface, as they open the road to normal traffic again and then often leave it that way for weeks before they get around to re-paving. With cars and trucks they are basically right, but with bikes and their tiny contact patches, the grooves can try to steer the bike for you, and if you tense up or panic at the strange motions you get, could pose a serious safety hazard. Some riders use a loose grip on the handlebars, and try not to fight the shimmy to let them ride on the stuff well enough, but there's still some concern about how it will affect swerves, stops and other emergency maneuvers should they become necessary. Sometimes the grooves aren't too bad, other times they can require a lot of attention to negotiate safely...attention that is no longer available for other required tasks. Those responsible for road maintenance should at least be aware of these issues, and try to limit the potential harm by limiting duration, not doing it to all lanes at once on a given stretch of roadway, or even by limiting the depth of the grooves and standardizing the characteristics a bit better. Uneven Pavement Require contractors to mark edge traps in bright orange paint when milling. Uneven pavement that is not clearly marked can be especially dangerous for motorcycles. Traveling in the dark can make uneven pavement nearly impossible to detect until it is too late to react. Markings that are visible at night and signs warning of the condition would make the roads safer for everyone including car drivers. Road Conditions and Construction Other more obvious issues include potholes, crown roads and the reverse banking they create at curves. The rumble strips carved into the shoulder of nearly every major highway create a hazard for riders who find it necessary to make an emergency stop on the shoulder of the road. If a rider is already experiencing mechanical difficulty or even worse a flat tire, these gashes in the side of the road make pulling off of the road even more precarious than the primary reason for the stop. Steel construction plates may be a necessary evil, but that is exactly what they are to motorcycles - evil. When the weather is dry, they present a hazard, but when steel plates are wet they are slippery and dangerous. The same goes for roadway markings like giant arrows that are made with plastic or rubber. The markings may be more durable, but they are 'slippery when wet'. And then there is gravel. When using it at construction sites it would be helpful to clean it up off the roadway where it gathers as soon as possible. Traffic Light Sensors Traffic light sensors that don't detect bikes can force a situation where the rider has no choice, but to disobey the signal. Guardrails Standard metal guardrails can be fatal or mutilating to a sliding motorcyclist. Left Lane 'Turtles' If it's the law for slower traffic to move right, make sure there are lots of signs to that effect. Enforcement of the 'slower traffic move right' edict could improve traffic flow. Traffic Circles Many motorcycle riders prefer traffic circles to stop signs and signals because the motorcycle rider can usually control the motorcycle's speed sufficiently to eliminate the need to come to a complete stop. The fewer times you have to put your feet on the ground the better. HOV Cheaters How about a crackdown on HOV cheaters? Many of them dart back and forth from the HOV lane and the normal lane to avoid detection. The panicked driver trying to get out of the HOV lane is prone to making lane change errors. Emphasize the Positive Aspects to Motorcycles Motorcycles are fuel and space efficient vehicles. Take advantage of these characteristics when designing parking and analyzing traffic flow patterns. Examine whether lane sharing and lane filtering are viable to reduce congestion and grid-lock. Parking Permitting multiple motorcycles in a single space is a step in the right direction, but planning for special high density parking areas, selective sidewalk parking, and using areas in parking lots and garages that are inaccessible to cars for motorcycles could relieve some of the urban choke problems. The big parking peeve is the fact that when you arrive at your destination and can't find street parking, nearly every parking garage in Maryland has a sign on the gate that says no motorcycles. Most operators of garages don't aggressively enforce this ban, but motorcyclists are vulnerable to the whims of the garage operator when parking their vehicles in these facilities. Inconsistent Enforcement On a separate note, simply enforcing standard laws consistently for all vehicles would be a good thing. It may be subjective perception, but many motorcycle riders feel invisible to car drivers, but feel that they are wearing a beacon that says pull me over while riding a motorcycle. Transportation Policy Essentially, if public roadways are designed with motorcycles in mind, then it is highly likely that they are safer for all vehicles. If the most vulnerable vehicles are considered during initial construction and design of all transportation initiatives, then the resulting product is likely to more safely accommodate other vehicles as well. When, as frequently happens, motorcycles are not considered or are an after thought, safety for other vehicles may be compromised as well. Increased Penalties for Moving Violations that Cause Injury or Death (This is an excerpt from the AMA web site 'Justice for All' campaign'. It says everything I could and more regarding increased penalties for accidents in particular those that violate the right-of-way of another vehicle.) What is a reasonable penalty for a car driver who kills or seriously injures a motorcyclist, bicyclist, pedestrian, or even another car driver? We know what's not reasonable: The $70 fine imposed on an Iowa driver for crossing the center line of a highway and killing three motorcyclists. The sentence handed down to an Oklahoma woman, putting her on probation for 30 months and ordering her to perform unspecified "acts of kindness and generosity" after she pleaded guilty to negligent homicide for killing a motorcyclist who was slowing to make a right turn. The 10-day suspended sentence and three-month driver's-license suspension for an Ohio driver convicted of vehicular homicide after backing out of a driveway into the path of an oncoming motorcyclist, who was killed. None of those penalties comes close to addressing the consequences of those crashes. But what is reasonable? That's the complex question we've tried to deal with in developing the AMA's Justice for All legislation. One of the key issues is whether a particular crash should be treated as a traffic matter, which could result in charges like failure to yield right of way, or whether it rises to the level of criminal offenses, like vehicular manslaughter. In many states, the distinction is based on words like "reckless disregard for the safety of others." If a prosecutor determines that a driver's actions fit that definition, then criminal charges could be filed. In writing model legislation that we hope to get introduced in all 50 states, the AMA has tried to address both categories. We have written one bill directed at traffic violations, like failure to yield right of way, and another aimed at felony offenses arising from traffic crashes. The right-of-way legislation seeks to impose fines on drivers who commit traffic offenses that injure or kill others. But the main thrust is on driver's-license suspensions designed to get dangerous drivers off the road-at least for a period of time. For those cases that involve felonies like vehicular manslaughter, we've written a separate bill that seeks fines, license suspensions and incarceration. That bill would, for instance, seek to impose a minimum one-year prison sentence on anyone convicted of a felony after killing someone in a traffic crash. There are two important things to remember about these bills: First, they're not designed to turn someone who makes a simple mistake while driving into a criminal. Only drivers convicted of a felony would face jail time. Second, these penalties don't just apply to crashes in which motorcyclists are the victims. If a car driver acts with "reckless disregard for the safety of others" and kills another car driver, the same penalty would apply. In fact, they could apply to a speeding motorcyclist who runs down a pedestrian or bicyclist, too. The idea is to recognize that driving (and riding) is a serious responsibility. The consequences of mistakes can be high for victims, and they should be high for offenders, too. There is one more part of the Justice for All legislation that does single out motorcyclists. It's a separate bill that we'd like to get passed to include motorcyclist-awareness instruction in each state's driver-education program. This information, developed by the Motorcycle Safety Foundation, is vital to getting car drivers to watch for motorcycles on the road. Together, those three bills form the basis for the AMA Justice for All campaign. Working with motorcyclists in all states over the coming years, we hope to get all three introduced-and passed-in every state. )B© 2004, American Motorcyclist Association Mandatory Motorcycle Helmet Use Many non-riders believe that motorcycle safety begins and ends with the helmet. It is obvious from the laundry list of issues previously mentioned that it is one small factor in a much larger picture. I can't count the number of times a non-rider has said to me after learning that I ride, 'but you wear a helmet, right?' The helmet might help if I fall down, but the larger goal is to stay on two wheels. The old adage is that you should keep the shiny side up and the rubber side down. There are times when a helmet will help a rider and times when it will harm a rider. Laws mandating helmet use are draconian and specious especially when helmet advocates refuse to acknowledge that there may be negative consequences to helmet use. The unanswered questions that helmet advocates either cannot answer or will not examine include, what are the injury trade-offs associated with motorcycle helmets; and what happens to a helmet during an accident? There is some evidence that suggests a higher potential for neck injuries with a helmet. This is a serious question that deserves an answer. There is an 'off button' for air bags because under certain circumstances they cause harm. There is no 'off button' for helmets other than the rider's discretion. So, let's get a real answer to a real question. As for what happens to a helmet during an accident, it would be extremely useful to know if the helmet is even there to protect the rider. There is a Maryland study that does not address the question directly, but sheds some light on the problem in the appendix. The appendix contains numerous comments about what happened to the helmet in an accident. In about 30% of the comments, the helmet either came off or was dislodged. So, what happened to the helmet? Where did it go? Did it harm the rider when it came off? These are real questions that also deserve an answer. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 6 08:39:57 2005 From: "Kathleen Loerich" To: Subject: Fw: ABATEMD: Alert - Maryland Motorcycle Helmet Law Modification - Hearing Scheduled Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 08:37:33 -0500 FYI: ----- Original Message ----- From: "ABATE of Maryland, Inc. - Legislative Alert" To: <@erols.com;> Subject: ABATEMD: Alert - Maryland Motorcycle Helmet Law Modification - Hearing Scheduled > Maryland General Assembly Session 2005 > Motorcycle Helmet Bill > Hearing Scheduled (February 15, 2005) > > The motorcycle helmet law modification bill was filed, assigned a bill > number. The bill number is HB 450. Bill details can be located at > http://mlis.state.md.us/2005rs/billfile/hb0450.htm. There are 52 > co-sponsors. > > The hearing for this bill will be in the House of Delegates Environmental > Matters Committee on February 15, 2005 at 1 pm in Annapolis. We encourage > everybody who is able to be there for the hearing to attend. Information > about locating the hearing room will be provided in a subsequent > legislative > alert. > > The motorcycle helmet bill will eliminate mandatory motorcycle helmet use > by > adult riders. The 2004 bill includes some language that is similar to the > recently enacted Pennsylvania helmet bill. These provisions are that a > rider must be over 21 and must have either two years of riding experience > or > must have taken a motorcycle safety course. It also includes provisions > for > passengers and three-wheeled vehicles. > > The primary sponsor for HB 450 is delegate Norman Conway. Co-sponsors > include Delegates Cluster, Aumann, Bartlett, Bromwell, Boschert, Costa, > Hogan, Impallaria, Haddaway, Frank, Glassman, Gilleland, Edwards, Eckardt, > Dwyer, Minnick, McConkey, Kelly, McKee, Murray, O'Donnell, Shank, Sossi, > Stull, Weir, Weldon, Stocksdale, Bates, Bohanan, Boteler, Bozman, Cadden, > Cane, C. Davis, Elmore, Goodwin, Harrison, Haynes, Heller, Jameson, > Jennings, Kach, King, Kirk, Myers, Oaks, Parker, Ramirez, Shewell, > Smigiel, > and Wood. > > The first milestone that we must pass is to achieve a positive committee > vote. House of Delegates Environmental Matters Committee members are > listed > below. When contacting a sponsor of the bill, please be sure to thank > them > for their support. When contacting those who have not yet stated a > position > ask them to vote for HB 450. Many delegates will vote for our bill, but > prefer not to be listed as a sponsor. Be polite and respectful when > making > your request. If you live in the Delegates district, make sure to mention > that in your letter or e-mail. > > Maggie L.McIntosh, Chair (410) 841-3990, (301) 858-3990, > e-mail: maggie_mcintosh@XXXXXX (Baltimore City) > > James E. Malone, Jr., Vice-Chair (410) 841-3378, (301) 858-3378, > e-mail: james_malone@XXXXXX (Baltimore & Howard) > > Rudolph C. Cane (Sponsor), (410) 841-3427, (301) 858-3427, > e-mail: rudolph_cane@XXXXXX (Dorchester & Wicomico) > > John W. E. Cluster, Jr. (Sponsor), (410) 841-3365, (301) 848-3365, > e-mail: john_cluster@XXXXXX (Baltimore) > > Barry Glassman (Sponsor), (410) 841-3289, (301) 858-3289, > e-mail: barry_glassman@XXXXXX (Harford) > > Patrick N. Hogan (Sponsor), (410) 841-3240, (301) 858-3240, > e-mail: patrick_n_hogan@XXXXXX (Frederick) > > J. B. Jennings (Sponsor), (410) 841-3334, (301) 858-3334, > e-mail: jb_jennings@XXXXXX (Baltimore & Harford) > > Tony McConkey (Sponsor), (410) 841-3223, (301) 858-3223, > e-mail: tony_mcconkey@XXXXXX (Anne Arundel) > > Rosetta C. Parker (Sponsor), (410) 841-3326, (301) 858-3326, > e-mail: rosetta_parker@XXXXXX (Prince George's) > > Richard A. Sossi (Sponsor), (410) 841-3543, (301) 858-3543, > e-mail: richard_sossi@XXXXXX (Caroline, Cecil, Kent, & Queen > Anne > 's) > > Paul S. Stull (Sponsor), (410) 841-3107, (301) 858-3107, > e-mail: paul_stull@XXXXXX (Frederick) > > Michael H. Weir, Jr. (Sponsor), (410) 841-3328, (301) 858-3328, > e-mail: michael_weir@XXXXXX (Baltimore) > > John S. Arnick, (410) 841-3458, (301) 858-3458, > e-mail: john_arnick@XXXXXX (Baltimore) > > Kumar P. Barve, (410) 841-3464, (301) 858-3464, > e-mail: kumar_barve@XXXXXX (Montgomery) > > Elizabeth Bobo, (410) 841-3205, (301) 858-3205, > e-mail: elizabeth_bobo@XXXXXX (Howard) > > Virginia P. Clagett, (410) 841-3211, (301) 858-3211, > e-mail: virginia_clagett@XXXXXX (Anne Arundel) > > Barbara A. Frush, (410) 841-3114, (301) 858-3114, > e-mail: barbara_frush@XXXXXX (Anne Arundel & Prince George's) > > Tony E. Fulton, (410) 841-3030, (301) 858-3030, > e-mail: unavailable (Baltimore City) > > Marvin E. Holmes, Jr., (410) 841-3098, (301) 858-3098, > e-mail: marvin_holmes@XXXXXX (Prince George's) > > Karen S. Montgomery, (410) 841-3380, (301) 858-3380, > e-mail: karen_montgomery@XXXXXX (Montgomery) > > Joan F. Stern, (410) 841-3045, (301) 858-3045, > e-mail: joan_stern@XXXXXX (Montgomery) > > Contact your Delegates today and ask them to vote for HB 450. If your > Delegate is one of the listed sponsors, contact them and thank them for > supporting the bill. > > Address letters to: > Lowe House Office Building > 84 College Ave. > Annapolis, MD 21401 > > If you receive a response from any of the delegates who are not yet > sponsors, please send any information you can to mdabate@XXXXXX. > > Bill details can be located at: > http://mlis.state.md.us/2005rs/billfile/hb0450.htm > > Obtain information about members of the House of Delegates via this link: > http://www.mdarchives.state.md.us/msa/mdmanual/06hse/html/hse.html > > Locate your legislators via this link: > http://mdelect.net/ > > Contact your legislators via this link: > http://www.mlis.state.md.us/cgi-win/mail32.exe > > ABATE of Maryland, Inc. > http://www.abate-of-maryland.org > mdabate@XXXXXX > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 6 12:07:17 2005 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Request for Input Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2005 12:04:03 -0500 Yesterday I was at Potomac Mills Mall on the bike. I rode up to the front of the parking lot, there was a 3' wide strip in front of the last car that was boxed off w/ white diagonal lines painted through it. There were tons of cars looking for spots, so I decided not to take one from them and use this area in front of the row. As I'm exiting the mall I see a PW Co police car. I'm never sure about parking in spots like that, so I wonder if I've gotten a ticket. I hadn't gotten one. But the police officer informed me if she beat me to the bike I would've gotten a ticket. I understand it's a "no parking" zone. But really, I'm not parked in the drive way. I also realize she's only enforcing the rules, but at some point you have to ask if it makes sense. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 6 16:30:41 2005 Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 13:30:23 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Request for Input To: "Mike B." , Todd Withrow , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- "Mike B." wrote: > At 06:01 AM 2/5/05 -0800, Todd Withrow wrote: > > > >--- "Mike B." wrote: > >> roads that run directly into the > >> rising or setting sun (no > >> real sun visors on bikes...and what we have requires > >> aiming the head down > >> to use), etc., but those are all worth mentioning > >> too. > > > >So you want to ban East/West roads? > > No, just the sort I described. i think what mike really wants is for the sun to be shut off occasionally. -- tg ===== Tom Gimer - http://www.murphygimer.com - http://www.mgtitlellc.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? All your favorites on one personal page )B– Try My Yahoo! http://my.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 6 18:36:43 2005 From: "Kathleen Loerich" To: Subject: Re: Request for Input Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 18:34:18 -0500 > > i think what mike really wants is for the sun to be shut > off occasionally. > I'll be in Annapolis tomorrow. Would you like for me to see if someone will draft a bill for that? Kathleen =8^) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 6 23:13:14 2005 From: Daniel To: "rich hall" Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Request for Input Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2005 23:12:58 -0500 It's funny because some places will let you park there.. or on the sidewalk.. I for one can appreciate when an officer yeilds to common sense over the rules. On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 12:04:03 -0500, "rich hall" wrote: >Yesterday I was at Potomac Mills Mall on the bike. I rode up to the front >of the parking lot, there was a 3' wide strip in front of the last car that >was boxed off w/ white diagonal lines painted through it. There were tons >of cars looking for spots, so I decided not to take one from them and use >this area in front of the row. As I'm exiting the mall I see a PW Co police >car. I'm never sure about parking in spots like that, so I wonder if I've >gotten a ticket. I hadn't gotten one. But the police officer informed me >if she beat me to the bike I would've gotten a ticket. I understand it's a >"no parking" zone. But really, I'm not parked in the drive way. I also >realize she's only enforcing the rules, but at some point you have to ask if >it makes sense. > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 7 00:19:37 2005 Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2005 00:19:44 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "Mike B." Subject: Re: Request for Input At 01:30 PM 2/6/05 -0800, Tom Gimer wrote: >--- "Mike B." wrote: >> At 06:01 AM 2/5/05 -0800, Todd Withrow wrote: >> >So you want to ban East/West roads? >> >> No, just the sort I described. > >i think what mike really wants is for the sun to be shut >off occasionally. Only if you are solar powered... -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 7 01:05:25 2005 Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2005 01:11:22 -0500 Subject: Re: Request for Input Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "garcia oliver" Speaking of sun in the eyes: I put duct tape around the lower edge of my helmet face shield (which I normally keep open/up except in the rain). By lowering the shield a bit, I have an adjustable sun visor. --garcia )B“The human eye is a wondrous device. With a little effort, it can fail to see even the most glaring injustice.)B” From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 7 03:35:51 2005 Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2005 03:32:44 -0500 From: skip CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: rubbernecking smthng else wrote: > > > Anyone wanna guess in how many years it will take them to raise the > > wall height or never? > > It's already been raised in most places... that's what the little > green slot things are all along the dividing wall. The problem is > that there are hills and dips. A car coming down towards a dip can > see all the way up the other side and it would take a 30 foot wall to > block it. > > Do I think that the two foot green things are enough? No. Would a > bigger wall help? Probably. > > Couldn't people just freaking pay attention and DRIVE? That would be nice. :S if I'm sitting in stop and go traffic for more than 5 minutes, I want to see dead, burnt bodies, and mangled cars... then I feel like it was time well spent. but I'm a sick f*cker... --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 7 07:23:26 2005 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 04:23:03 -0800 (PST) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: rubbernecking To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I've been saying that for years. Make the walls about 8' tall. Works on I-64 where the tree line keeps people from Rubbernecking. Glenn --- Daniel wrote: > I was on the beltway a few days ago, there was an > accident on the > other side... traffic on my side was slow just > because of people > gawking. It occured to me if the median were a foot > or two higher, > most of the cagers wouldn't be able ot see what's > going on that side, > and woulnd't slow down to be nosey. not only > would it speed up > traffic but it would prevent some collisions on the > non crash side > from people running into the back of others or > hitting someone else > while looking at the accident. If anyone writes to > Dr gridlock, throw > that in will ya. thanks > > Anyone wanna guess in how many years it will take > them to raise the > wall height or never? > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 7 13:54:26 2005 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 13:54:10 EST Subject: Re: Request for Input (Long bitch session) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 2/6/2005 12:45:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, garicao@XXXXXX writes: > (6) Require zipper merges when construction or accident closes lane(s). > Signs would help with this, too. "Zippering" would be fine, _IF_ what happened even vaguely resembled a zipper, but it does not. Also, "Zippering" is the primary cause of the "slugs in the left lane" mentioned previously. The first problem is that there are _two_ distinct areas where people are expected to zipper, one legitimate, one pure bullshit. Legitimate: When two lanes come from different sources (some on ramps; Duke/Little river onto N395 for instance.) There is no opportunity to merge prior to a lane ending and there is no distinct lane ending, the lanes simply merge together evenly. Another area where I can accept it _sometimes_ is the accident/construction mentioned in your post but _only_ where it cannot be determined just which lane is blocked until the last moment. BULLSHIT: When everyone knows that the lane is going to end up ahead, when the signs are clear and posted miles ahead "_Left lane ends" for instance. What that means is _ merge_into_the_thru_lane _at_the_first_opportunity. It does not mean drive until you lane ends and then force your way into the thru lane. It does not mean drive like you lane continues, without even looking to see if there is anyone next to you. You do not have the right to force your way into traffic when your lane ends. Traffic in the through lane is under _no_ obligation to let you in. And here is what _really_ happens. Person in ending lane slips into the through lane pretty much as they should. Then someone forces their way in front of _them,_ _then_ someone forces their way in front of the driver who let the first car in. And gets pissed off if they do not let them in, even though they have let someone in, in fact _two_ some ones in. Now the ratio of cars moving in the ending lane against the cars moving in the through lane is THREE TO ONE!! No wonder that the through lane, the lane that should move freely in fact is always the slowest lane and the ending lane, the one that should be moving slowest, is the one moving fastest. It is no wonder that people move into the far left lane to avoid the hassles and danger of people pushing their way in front of them. And do not even get me started on the butt f*#@ing SOBs that move from the through lane into the ending lane just so they can force their way in front of a couple of extra cars. _They_ should burn in hell starting today. If people around here would learn what "merge" and "yield" mean, and obey the vast majority of the traffic problems around here would disappear overnight. But I am not bitter.... John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC 1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European 1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles 1976, Honda CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 7 14:11:56 2005 Subject: Of bikes and a woman Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 14:11:54 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: So you have been single for a long while and apart from the occasional bout of wish I had someone to go get coffee with and nonsense like that are very happy about it...then you happen to meet someone you find interesting and start spending time with them. Next thing you know the occasional gripe; barb or attempt to make you feel guilty about riding your bike worms into your conversations. For those experienced ( married, LTR type ) folks out there....what is the best way of letting someone know the following: A) it is your bike B) you ride it when you FEEL and WANT to ride it C) Bike riding is not a scheduled event with regular playing hours like a weekly cricket match D) Don't talk about the bike and don't ever say "I think you should go and ride your bike now" which really means that you are some kind of de-prioritized and backwards unfeeling SOB if you actually get on your bike and ride. Obviously, one solution is to just "keep on movin" but recent events make me wonder what would ever happen if I found myself in some sort of thing with some sort of girl and I had to deal with this issue. A sincere thank you to any repliers.... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 7 14:17:43 2005 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 14:17:30 EST Subject: Re: Of bikes and a woman To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 2/7/2005 2:12:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, julian@XXXXXX writes: > but recent events > make me wonder what would ever happen if I found myself in some sort of > thing with some sort of girl and I had to deal with this issue. _Always_ make the first date a ride, _Always_! A few will "get away", but you do not want them anyway. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 7 14:21:40 2005 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 14:21:15 -0500 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Request for Input (Long bitch session) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX LongJohn says: >"Zippering" would be fine, _IF_ what happened even vaguely >resembled a zipper, but it does not. Also, "Zippering" is >the primary cause of the "slugs in the left lane" mentioned >previously. [Dave] John, I don't know of an area around here where we can get an accurate read on that. By that, I mean that the roads are so overcrowded now that traffic is slowed below the limit anyway, regardless of the right hand zippering. I submit that the slugs going left do not adversely affect _That_ traffic. However, I agree with you that in a traffic Utopia, your description is correct, it would slow down left lane traffic... ...It does not mean drive until you lane ends and then force your way into the thru lane. [Dave] John, this idea is far to radical, and a 'fringe' concept at best. ;-) It does not mean drive like you lane continues, without even looking to see if there is anyone next to you. [Dave] I agree... does that mean accelerate ? ;-) And here is what _really_ happens. Person in ending lane slips into the through lane pretty much as they should. Then someone forces their way in front of _them,_ _then_ someone forces their way in front of the driver who let the first car in. And gets pissed off if they do not let them in, even though they have let someone in, in fact _two_ some ones in. [Dave] OOOOOOOOH no they don't. The victor in the above disagreement shall be the vehicle operator with: 1-the bigger 'I don't give a $h!t, me 1st' attitude. 2-the vehicle which is the least worthy piece of $h!t. 2 trumps 1 when the attempted 'forcer' is driving a 'prized' vehicle, meaning 1 which they don't want to screw up. I see this acted out every day. I've seen the signs - in other areas - asking motorists to 'zipper merge'. I wonder if they would have an effect around here? Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 7 14:22:42 2005 Subject: RE: Of bikes and a woman Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 14:22:40 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: , That's something I make a habit of...since I have had a bike everytime I have had a "encounter of the opposite kind"..I always pull up on my bike. -----Original Message----- From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX [mailto:PenguinBiker@XXXXXX] To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Of bikes and a woman In a message dated 2/7/2005 2:12:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, julian@XXXXXX writes: > but recent events > make me wonder what would ever happen if I found myself in some sort > of thing with some sort of girl and I had to deal with this issue. _Always_ make the first date a ride, _Always_! A few will "get away", but you do not want them anyway. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 7 14:25:31 2005 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 11:25:23 -0800 (PST) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: Of bikes and a woman To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Seems pretty simple to me. If you ever get in this situation, dump the bitch. Seriously, no need to have to explain your hobby to an SO. If she don't get it, then she don't get it. Glenn --- Julian Halton wrote: > So you have been single for a long while and apart > from the occasional > bout of wish I had someone to go get coffee with and > nonsense like that make me wonder what would ever happen if I found > myself in some sort of > thing with some sort of girl and I had to deal with > this issue. > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 7 14:27:00 2005 From: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Of bikes and a woman Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 14:26:53 -0500 I agree or make sure that they ride or come from a family of riders. -----Original Message----- From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX [mailto:PenguinBiker@XXXXXX] To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Of bikes and a woman In a message dated 2/7/2005 2:12:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, julian@XXXXXX writes: > but recent events > make me wonder what would ever happen if I found myself in some sort of > thing with some sort of girl and I had to deal with this issue. _Always_ make the first date a ride, _Always_! A few will "get away", but you do not want them anyway. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 7 14:39:30 2005 From: "Anne S" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Of bikes and a woman Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2005 14:37:28 -0500 I think you have to know what is non negotiable. I always ask potential dates how they feel about goats. So they know the scoop -- they don't like the goat, no date. My suggestion if you really like this girl is to have her take the intro to motorcycle class - get her into it. Might be a way of gently introducing her to something that is very important in your life. If she's not willing, are you willing to be controlled by her? Anne PS I'm single >From: "Julian Halton" >To: >Subject: Of bikes and a woman >Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 14:11:54 -0500 > > >So you have been single for a long while and apart from the occasional >bout of wish I had someone to go get coffee with and nonsense like that >are very happy about it...then you happen to meet someone you find >interesting and start spending time with them. Next thing you know the >occasional gripe; barb or attempt to make you feel guilty about riding >your bike worms into your conversations. For those experienced ( >married, LTR type ) folks out there....what is the best way of letting >someone know the following: >A) it is your bike >B) you ride it when you FEEL and WANT to ride it >C) Bike riding is not a scheduled event with regular playing hours like >a weekly cricket match >D) Don't talk about the bike and don't ever say "I think you should go >and ride your bike now" which really means that you are some kind of >de-prioritized and backwards unfeeling SOB if you actually get on your >bike and ride. > > > >Obviously, one solution is to just "keep on movin" but recent events >make me wonder what would ever happen if I found myself in some sort of >thing with some sort of girl and I had to deal with this issue. > >A sincere thank you to any repliers.... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 7 14:41:02 2005 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 14:40:54 -0500 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Of bikes and a woman To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >So you have been single for a long while and apart from the occasional bout of wish I had someone to go get coffee with and nonsense like that are very happy about it...then you happen to meet someone you find interesting and start spending time with them. Next thing you know the occasional gripe; barb or attempt to make you feel guilty about riding your bike worms into your conversations. [Dave] err... Double ewe tee eff ? It's a lifestyle choice. You are, or are not a motorcyclist. If you allow her to browbeat you into submission over the issue of motorcycling, the chances are very likely this trait will resurface later on, at a much higher degree of manifestation. There must at least be tolerance, but not necessarily exuberance. For those experienced ( married, LTR type ) folks out there....what is the best way of letting someone know the following: >A) it is your bike [Dave] Remember, I'm married, 9 years now. YMMV "It's my bike, my hobby. You knew I was a motorcyclist, and speed enthusiast when you met me. This is non negotiable and something which brings me great joy, and I think it is unfair of you to even think about me giving even a small part of this up. I offer to include you in my riding, but you choose not to. I choose to ride anyway. You're still welcome to come with me, but if you don't, I'm riding anyway" >B) you ride it when you FEEL and WANT to ride it [Dave] Many, many, many moons ago, TOWMBO made me commit to a Saturday BBQ at one of her friends' house. Said day came and ( of f888ing course ) it was BE A U Tiful no, scratch that - Perfect riding weather. me: Hey, I'm going for a ride, be back in a couple hours. TOWMBO: You said we could go to Cathy's bbq today. me: It's beautfil, I'll be back... TOWMBO: It's a 1 o'clock. me: Who the F*** starts their bbq at 1 F***ing o'clock and why do we have to be there right AT one... TOWMBO: I asked you about this months ago and YOU said ok me: ~!@#$%^&*()_~!@#$%^&*()~!@#$%^&*() ..."I will never commit to an event you want to go to ever again, as long as I live, until the day of the event"... That was 8 years ago. I kept my word; on the stupid BBQ, and not committing. C) Bike riding is not a scheduled event with regular playing hours like a weekly cricket match [Dave] But it *CAN* be if you want to do that too... that's part of the great thing about bikes, you can have planned and organized rides, or, go when you wish. 'tis up to you. >D) Don't talk about the bike and don't ever say "I think you should go and ride your bike now" which really means that you are some kind of de-prioritized and backwards unfeeling SOB if you actually get on your bike and ride. [Dave] Kind of like "you don't need to get me anything for Valentine's day". riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight... ...what would ever happen if I found myself in some sort of thing with some sort of girl and I had to deal with this issue. [Dave] you either need, or will need to have a serious heart to heart. An agreement might not be reached, and you have to be willing to accept that. You can't change who you are. Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 7 14:52:48 2005 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 11:52:41 -0800 (PST) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: RE: Of bikes and a woman To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Oh no, do you realize the can of worms you are opening with that statement? Glenn --- Anne S wrote: > Anne > > PS I'm single __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 7 15:00:27 2005 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 15:00:15 -0500 From: smthng else To: Anne S Subject: Re: Of bikes and a woman Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > PS I'm single If I get another bike soon, I could be. :P --smthng http://spaces.msn.com/members/smthng/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 7 15:06:05 2005 Subject: New bike was : RE: Of bikes and a woman Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 15:06:03 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: , "Anne S" Cc: Took it out for a spin yesterday...am racking up miles and will be ready for my first oil change by the end of the week. Rock Creek on this thing was amazing. The new R6 does not like traffic and I frequently find the cooling fan kicking in as the temp jumps to 227 degrees farenheit which worries me a bit. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 7 16:26:18 2005 From: "Perry Coleman" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Of bikes and a woman Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2005 16:25:00 -0500 Julian, Only you can make the choice and set your priorities. For me, that sort of thing would be a "walk away" situation. For what it's worth, my wife of 17 years first date with me was a ride on my bike. I would not have given up the bike for her. Oh, by the way, she has her own bike now. Of course, all relationships require a certain amount of give and take - on both sides! Good luck! Perry >From: "Julian Halton" >To: >Subject: Of bikes and a woman >Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 14:11:54 -0500 > > >So you have been single for a long while and apart from the occasional >bout of wish I had someone to go get coffee with and nonsense like that >are very happy about it...then you happen to meet someone you find >interesting and start spending time with them. Next thing you know the >occasional gripe; barb or attempt to make you feel guilty about riding >your bike worms into your conversations. For those experienced ( >married, LTR type ) folks out there....what is the best way of letting >someone know the following: >A) it is your bike >B) you ride it when you FEEL and WANT to ride it >C) Bike riding is not a scheduled event with regular playing hours like >a weekly cricket match >D) Don't talk about the bike and don't ever say "I think you should go >and ride your bike now" which really means that you are some kind of >de-prioritized and backwards unfeeling SOB if you actually get on your >bike and ride. > > > >Obviously, one solution is to just "keep on movin" but recent events >make me wonder what would ever happen if I found myself in some sort of >thing with some sort of girl and I had to deal with this issue. > >A sincere thank you to any repliers.... > > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 7 16:29:25 2005 From: "Perry Coleman" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Of bikes and a woman Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2005 16:28:39 -0500 Hell! I'm still trying to work out the goat reference... ;^) >From: Glenn Dysart >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: RE: Of bikes and a woman >Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 11:52:41 -0800 (PST) > >Oh no, do you realize the can of worms you are opening >with that statement? > >Glenn > >--- Anne S wrote: > > > > Anne > > > > PS I'm single > > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. >http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 7 16:30:48 2005 From: To: Subject: Re: RE: Of bikes and a woman Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 16:30:37 -0500 > > From: "Anne S" > Date: 2005/02/07 Mon PM 02:37:28 EST > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: RE: Of bikes and a woman > > I think you have to know what is non negotiable. I always ask potential > dates how they feel about goats. So they know the scoop -- they don't like > the goat, no date. > > My suggestion if you really like this girl is to have her take the intro to > motorcycle class - get her into it. Might be a way of gently introducing > her to something that is very important in your life. If she's not willing, > are you willing to be controlled by her? > > Anne > > PS I'm single > When I first met my (then future) wife, Jennifer, she had never rode a bike in her life. Expecting the obvious questions of "Why do you ride something that dangerous?", and "I hope you don't plan on keeping that bike after we're married", I was SHOCKED to find out that she quietly signed up for an MSF class and bought a used 500 Shadow without ever saying a word to me. What a surprise it was when I pulled up to her place one day on my V65 to find her suiting up and firing up her OWN bike. When I asked her why she decided to get a bike, she simply said, "I know how much you love motorcycles, and overcoming my fear of them, I decided the only fair thing to do was sign up for a class and see what it's all about." "I did that, and then *I got it*...so I bought this bike and here I am..now are you just going to stand there with your mouth open or we going to go find some twisties?" Gawd I love that woman... -aki From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 7 16:32:05 2005 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 13:31:32 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Of bikes and a woman To: Glenn Dysart , dc-cycles@XXXXXX glenn, what about the types that decide mid-marriage that bikes suck and those who ride them are assholes? hypothetical question, of course! ;) --- Glenn Dysart wrote: > Seems pretty simple to me. If you ever get in this > situation, dump the bitch. Seriously, no need to have > to explain your hobby to an SO. If she don't get it, > then she don't get it. > > Glenn > > --- Julian Halton wrote: > > > > So you have been single for a long while and apart > > from the occasional > > bout of wish I had someone to go get coffee with and > > nonsense like that > make me wonder what would ever happen if I > found > > myself in some sort of > > thing with some sort of girl and I had to deal with > > this issue. ===== Tom Gimer - 301 675-3980 (cell) - http://www.murphygimer.com - http://www.mgtitlellc.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 7 16:34:02 2005 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 13:33:40 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: New bike was : RE: Of bikes and a woman To: Julian Halton , you@XXXXXX, Anne S Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX why does it worry you? because it doesn't come on until 227? or because your bike gets to 227 in the middle of winter? --- Julian Halton wrote: > > > > Took it out for a spin yesterday...am racking up miles > and will be ready > for my first oil change by the end of the week. Rock > Creek on this > thing was amazing. The new R6 does not like traffic and > I frequently > find the cooling fan kicking in as the temp jumps to 227 > degrees > farenheit which worries me a bit. > > ===== Tom Gimer - 301 675-3980 (cell) - http://www.murphygimer.com - http://www.mgtitlellc.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 7 16:41:52 2005 Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2005 16:38:12 -0500 To: "Julian Halton" , From: "Mike B." Subject: Re: Of bikes and a woman At 02:11 PM 2/7/05 -0500, Julian Halton wrote: > >married, LTR type ) folks out there....what is the best way of letting >someone know the following: >A) it is your bike >B) you ride it when you FEEL and WANT to ride it >C) Bike riding is not a scheduled event with regular playing hours like >a weekly cricket match >D) Don't talk about the bike and don't ever say "I think you should go >and ride your bike now" which really means that you are some kind of >de-prioritized and backwards unfeeling SOB if you actually get on your >bike and ride. First off, if you feel as you do, and your SO feels in ways that require any of the above, then you aren't compatible, and finding someone else would probably be best for both of you. A woman with a bike would be a good candidate. That said, saying something like, "This is me. This is the way I am. You picked me the way I am, for what I am, not so you could change me into something else...right?" If the answer to that isn't "right", see above... You might just get one of those T-shirts that says, "My wife said, 'Either that bike goes, or I go.' I'm gonna miss her..." and leave it at that... ;-) -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 7 17:13:29 2005 From: "Anne S" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Of bikes and a woman Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2005 17:10:39 -0500 Love me, love my goat. (he's a 200 or so pound Alpine with large horns who is very intimidating but quite nice once you get past the posturing). He has quite a few pals, too ... anyhow, the point is just lifestyle. I don't yet have my own bike -- just enjoying your stories vicariously -- but I DO have a farm and whereas I could still conceivably date someone who doesn't ride (although he'd better not tell me he doesn't want me to ride!), I couldn't date someone who has a problem with horned and hooved beasts. :) That's all. Therefore for those of you who ride regularly, it seems it would be quite impossible to date or marry someone who can't get with the program. :) Loved the story about the wife who took the safety class on the sly! Anne >From: "Perry Coleman" >Hell! I'm still trying to work out the goat reference... ;^) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 7 17:22:33 2005 Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2005 17:22:40 -0500 To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "Mike B." Subject: Re: Request for Input (Long bitch session) At 01:54 PM 2/7/05 EST, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: >It does not mean drive like you lane continues, without even looking to see if >there is anyone next to you. You do not have the right to force your way into >traffic when your lane ends. Traffic in the through lane is under _no_ >obligation to let you in. Agree 100% with your sentiments, and with most of what you say too. *Slight* disagreement about the stress on the last tiny bit though. Traffic in the through lane is under the same obligation to avoid collisions if at all possible that all traffic is under. If jackass-merger just comes over like he has right of way (which he does not, as you point out), and you *don't* act to let him in (move over, brake, or whatever), and the two of you hit each other, then you have failed to prevent an avoidable collision and you'd be in violation. Of course, jackass-merger is going to get the bulk of the blame, as the one who changed lanes/merged improperly, failed to yield right of way, exercise due caution, etc., and probably the only one that would get ticketed if anyone does, but the law says you are both at some fault last I looked so there is *some* obligation to let him in, should he act illegally like that. >And here is what _really_ happens. Person in ending lane slips into the >through lane pretty much as they should. Then someone forces their way in front of >_them,_ _then_ someone forces their way in front of the driver who let the >first car in. And gets pissed off if they do not let them in, even though they >have let someone in, in fact _two_ some ones in. >Now the ratio of cars moving in the ending lane against the cars moving in >the through lane is THREE TO ONE!! At which point the really and truly born-again-assholes start moving from the thru lane into the ending lane farther back, running up to the end, and forcing their way in, thus helping to maintain the conditions that have them pissed off to start with...and generating road rage in everyone around them who would like nothing better than run over their selfish, brainless, totally useless carcasses. Repeatedly. >And do not even get me started on the butt f*#@ing SOBs that move >from the through lane into the ending lane just so they can force their way in >front of a couple of extra cars. _They_ should burn in hell starting today. I think you're going too light on them. I think it should be retroactive to their first such offense, and eternal sentences for each event should run consecutively. >If people around here would learn what "merge" and "yield" mean, and obey the >vast majority of the traffic problems around here would disappear overnight. Not to mention "Stop", "No U-Turn", "