From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jan 30 13:57:28 2004 Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 13:57:25 -0500 To: "Custer, Carl" , "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Polar Bear ride At 12:26 PM 1/30/04 -0500, Custer, Carl wrote: >2 of 3. Evaporation: >Michael Lynch nailed it: " . . .Temperature is the measure of average >kinetic energy, and you'll get evaporation as soon as *any* of the water >molecules have enough to depart the surface of their immediate locale." Umm...that was me. It was in response to someone else correcting what I'd said previously, and that might have been Mr. Lynch...I don't recall. >But . . . Will the molecule escape or be bounced back? > >That's where humidity and altitude (A.K.A. "Free mean flight path") comes >in. >The more "stuff" above the body of water, the higher the probability the >escapee will be bounced back. The fewer "stuff" above the surface, the >higher the probability that it'll escape. At a given energy level, yeah. If it has more than enough energy, it can cope with more "stuff" blocking its escape path. I think this is why boiling point varies with air pressure (lower temp for lower pressure). [oops...just noticed that you said that later on... :^] >Thus, in drier or higher environments, less "average kinetic energy" is >needed for a noticeable amount of escapees. ("Ah ha " sez Bartman as he >considers a thread on pressure cookers, Arizona "dry heat" and boiling eggs >in Denver ;^) The thought never crossed my mind...but now that you mention it... :^) >Therefore, . . . >3 of 3: Damn air dryers and tepid water. > . . . whisking away recently escaped molecules with a stream of air >reduces the probability they'll be bounced back on your wet hand. >But, you still can't blow your nose with the damn things. True enough. And even if you could, you probably wouldn't want to. >My complaint is the tepid water in State roadside toilets. When it's >35C/95F out, I want to splash cold water on my fevered brow, not tepid >water. Sure I can wet my bandana, flap it around (to lessen the "average >kinetic energy") and then wipe my face but heck, I want instant >gratification . . . and cold handfuls of it. Alcohol? -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jan 30 14:56:53 2004 From: "ALTAAN CHOUDHRY" To: Subject: DC Bike Show Pictures Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 14:44:41 -0500 Guys/Gals Here are some picture I took at the recent Bike Show at the DC Convention Center. Some of the pictures on the page are Mike Troutman's. My pictures are about from the half way down on the page. www.dccycles.com/bswcc0104/C --Altaan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jan 30 15:00:22 2004 Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 14:59:21 -0500 From: Skip CC: DCCycles Subject: Re: just dreaming... Leon Begeman wrote: > > Skip, you need to buy some winter clothes. > > Let me try again, this is prose, right, none of this > counting syllables stuff? I'm currently bikeless, so dreaming is all I can do. but I'm makin' payments on an 85 V65 sabre... spring is gonna be sweeeet! --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jan 30 15:07:53 2004 From: "Sean Steele" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 15:07:19 -0500 Subject: Re: DC Bike Show Pictures X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information This works: www.dccycles.com/bswcc0104 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jan 30 15:21:30 2004 Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 15:21:11 -0500 To: "ALTAAN CHOUDHRY" From: Troutman Subject: Re: DC Bike Show Pictures Cc: http://www.dccycles.com/bswcc0104/ (drop the C) I also added http://www.dccycles.com/india - Altaan's pictures of bikes in India. At 02:44 PM 1/30/2004, ALTAAN CHOUDHRY wrote: >Guys/Gals > >Here are some picture I took at the recent Bike Show at the DC Convention >Center. Some of the pictures on the page are Mike Troutman's. My pictures >are about from the half way down on the page. > >www.dccycles.com/bswcc0104/C > >--Altaan ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jan 30 15:24:40 2004 Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 12:24:11 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: just dreaming... To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Skip wrote: > I sit here at work, fantasizing about a clear spring > morning, trees budding that vibrant spring green.... So you're in a meeting, eh? -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jan 30 17:53:06 2004 From: "Michael Jordan" To: Subject: RE: Newbie Buyer Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 17:52:57 -0500 Welcome to the list. I too have memories of riding a motorcycle around Viet Nam. I had a Peugeot and a TWN. Barely running 2-strokes that were kept running by tin cans, bailing wire and faith. 'Course, this was in '68 and my riding area was somewhat limited... Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jan 30 18:16:30 2004 From: "Michael Jordan" To: Subject: RE: MotorcycleRoads.US: Possibly Interesting Web Site Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 18:16:28 -0500 Nice site - thanks. For another slice of roads, try this one: http://www.alpineroads.com/ Maintained by a couple of Brits that live entirely too close. Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jan 30 20:13:32 2004 Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 17:13:24 -0800 (PST) From: Adam Reinhardt Subject: RE: Newbie Buyer To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&category=6027&item=2457447975&sspagename=STRK%3AMESSE%3AIT I doubt you'll find a bike as good as the GS500 for starting on, and this one seems to be a good deal. The bike is easy to work on and has a great support web site called www.gstwin.com Adam Reinhardt 91 GS500 (maybe CBR F2 this weekend, we'll see) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Jan 30 22:04:21 2004 From: "Rob Sharp" To: "Timothy Duffy" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Newbie Buyer Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 22:05:45 -0500 Lots of dealers have used bikes. Cad Cycles and Cycles SA will both have used bikes in the Mountgumery Co. area. Buying used from a person can also be a good deal. What kinda of bike are you looking for? I am a honda supporter since I think they have great reliability. I just bought a used 96 VFR last spring as my second bike. Make sure you get a bike that isn't a 1000CC+ hotrod. I started with a 600 CC (40 horsepower) Vtwin standard from honda (Hawk GT). Think small and light to learn on and trade it in when your ready for something nicer and bigger. Rob On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 17:56:06 +0000, Timothy Duffy wrote > Hello All, > > I'm looking to buy my first motorcycle this spring. I took a two-day > motorcycle trip with some friends in Vietnam last November and have > spent the entire winter daydreaming about weekend motorcycle cruises. > > Do you guys have any suggestions for buying used bikes here in the > DC area? What are the best sources? Are there any dealers that sell > used bikes? I'm looking to spend about $1000. What can I expect to > get for that? > > Any advice you all could give is appreciated. > > Thanks, > Tim > > _________________________________________________________________ > Let the new MSN Premium Internet Software make the most of your high- > speed experience. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=byoa/prem&ST=1 -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jan 31 00:20:48 2004 Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 21:20:15 -0800 (PST) From: matthew patton Subject: Re: Polar Bear ride To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX all this talk of physics is fine and all but I JUST WANT TO RIDE! *grin* I wouldn't recommend western MD for a ride given the weather pattern this last week or so but between the Horkster, Leon the 'nut', and myself I think we can pretty much vouch for the general Quantico area. There are lots of really good roads down here 50mi south. Anyone hankering for a ride should come down here where our roads are essentially fully clear. ===== * A successful marriage isn't finding the right person; it's being the right person. * To forgive is to set the prisoner free and then discover the prisoner was you. * Liberalism always generates the exact opposite of its stated intent. - Jim Quinn (WRRK) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jan 31 00:23:33 2004 Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 21:23:25 -0800 (PST) From: matthew patton Subject: RE: Newbie Buyer To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Adam Reinhardt wrote: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&category=6027&item=2457447975&sspagename=STRK%3AMESSE%3AIT > > I doubt you'll find a bike as good as the GS500 for Not to mention the 4 or 5 of us here on the list who own them and some of us have experience racing/rebuilding them. ===== * A successful marriage isn't finding the right person; it's being the right person. * To forgive is to set the prisoner free and then discover the prisoner was you. * Liberalism always generates the exact opposite of its stated intent. - Jim Quinn (WRRK) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jan 31 00:51:21 2004 Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 00:50:49 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Newbie Buyer At 10:05 PM 1/30/04 -0500, Rob Sharp wrote: >Lots of dealers have used bikes. Cad Cycles and Cycles SA will both have used >bikes in the Mountgumery Co. area. So does Battley's. Call them and ask what they have. Some of it may even be appropriate for a beginner, but I doubt they have anything in the $1000 range. I know they have several ex-police bikes at the moment if anyone has always wanted one. The radios, lights and siren are removed, along with the police tires, but the rest is patrol-standard. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jan 31 11:25:09 2004 Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 08:25:04 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Polar Bear ride To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- matthew patton wrote: > all this talk of physics is fine and all but I JUST WANT TO RIDE! > *grin* > > I wouldn't recommend western MD for a ride given the weather pattern > this last week or so but between the Horkster, Leon the 'nut', and > myself I think we can pretty much vouch for the general Quantico area. Hey! I'm a nut too. I'll likely take a fast ride around PW today (hitting Chipotle's) just to spiffy up the bikes and charge the systems. Rita hasn't done more than starts hers up so I'll run that one around a bit too. Then I gotta find a mech. Hey Leon, do you think I should punch out the rockers to fit the axle or have someone turn the axle to fit the holes? > There are lots of really good roads down here 50mi south. Anyone > hankering for a ride should come down here where our roads are > essentially fully clear. > Yea, looks like a nice sunny day. Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jan 31 19:03:10 2004 Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 18:03:14 -0600 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Sean Jordan Subject: Motorcycle = router? Neat. http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/26/technology/26oxcart.html - Sean Jordan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Jan 31 21:08:35 2004 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Sean Jordan , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Motorcycle = router? Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 21:09:51 -0500 Link so you don't have to register. Rob http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/26/technology/26oxcart.html?ex=1390539600&en=4187e49428719752&ei=5007&partner=USERLAND On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 18:03:14 -0600, Sean Jordan wrote > Neat. > > http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/26/technology/26oxcart.html > > - Sean Jordan -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 1 23:39:27 2004 Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 23:40:40 -0500 From: corey Reply-To: corey To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: sunday ride saw the thermometer hit a solid 35 degrees today and thought it'd be great to get at least an hour on the gs. i haven't really done any winterizing so it makes me happy to let 'er breathe at least once a month. been on a battery tender all month so i just hit the switch and it fired right up. my backyard and the sidewalk between the townhouses is still a solid 3 inches of ice, so i spread some salt and cleared as much of a path as i could and slipped and slid my way out to the cul-de-sac next door. a little hairy, but not as hairy as getting it back in (walking/sliding the front wheel down a steepish footpath... sketch-city). took 236 to 50 out to chantilly, main roads were in great shape. not much sand or melt to be seen. had to make an emergency detour to hudson trail outfitters to buy a neck gaitor. once that was in place i was pretty comfortable even up to 70 mph on 66 headed home. this is my 2nd ride with my new-to-me racetech springs and cannot get over the difference it makes in the ride quality. those stock springs are friggin death traps if you're over 175lbs. hope we get a couple more of these days in feburary! ___________________________________________ corey [journal] www.egoinc.org [portfolio] www.blanksky.com 93 GS500e From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 2 07:54:16 2004 From: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" To: "'corey'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: sunday ride Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 07:54:08 -0500 What type of bike do you ride? I was thinking of upgrading my springs in my gsxr600. -----Original Message----- From: corey [mailto:corey@XXXXXX] Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 11:41 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: sunday ride saw the thermometer hit a solid 35 degrees today and thought it'd be great to get at least an hour on the gs. i haven't really done any winterizing so it makes me happy to let 'er breathe at least once a month. been on a battery tender all month so i just hit the switch and it fired right up. my backyard and the sidewalk between the townhouses is still a solid 3 inches of ice, so i spread some salt and cleared as much of a path as i could and slipped and slid my way out to the cul-de-sac next door. a little hairy, but not as hairy as getting it back in (walking/sliding the front wheel down a steepish footpath... sketch-city). took 236 to 50 out to chantilly, main roads were in great shape. not much sand or melt to be seen. had to make an emergency detour to hudson trail outfitters to buy a neck gaitor. once that was in place i was pretty comfortable even up to 70 mph on 66 headed home. this is my 2nd ride with my new-to-me racetech springs and cannot get over the difference it makes in the ride quality. those stock springs are friggin death traps if you're over 175lbs. hope we get a couple more of these days in feburary! ___________________________________________ corey [journal] www.egoinc.org [portfolio] www.blanksky.com 93 GS500e From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 2 09:29:41 2004 Subject: RE: Sunday ride Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 09:29:30 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "corey" , Sunday was a pretty nice day for a ride, the errant spots of moisture on the roads were (almost) all melted. I rode from Falls Church to Bowie via 495 and 214, then headed into DC and caught a film at the new E Street Cinemas. (Nice place, but spendy; tickets were 9.25 and no matinee pricing.) Parking on E Street, I shared a space with a nice older BMW (R75?), which left when I was getting coffee before the movie. Leaving the film later, the BMW spot had been claimed by a new Magna, so there were certainly other riders out. Riding in today was dry, but nippy, tomorrow promises to be interesting... Robert From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 2 10:28:09 2004 Subject: Ride and Eat Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 10:29:49 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: "corey" , I just spent ten minutes outside in a t-shirt. Apparently it is going to hit 40 and the weather is going to go to s$%t later so I am contemplating sneaking home, grabbing my gear and riding out to Carlyle Grand for lunch (Shirlington , VA- good burgers and fish). Anyone up for a lunch time ride From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 2 12:50:40 2004 Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 12:49:18 -0500 From: Skip CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Motorcycle = router? What a cool job that would be... --skip Rob Sharp wrote: > > Link so you don't have to register. > > Rob > > http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/26/technology/26oxcart.html?ex=1390539600&en=4187e49428719752&ei=5007&partner=USERLAND > > On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 18:03:14 -0600, Sean Jordan wrote > > Neat. > > > > http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/26/technology/26oxcart.html > > > > - Sean Jordan > > -- > Rob Sharp > 1996 Honda VFR 750 > 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme > SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA > Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 2 13:10:05 2004 Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 12:10:12 -0600 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, mike@XXXXXX From: Sean Jordan Subject: Be the first one on your block... ...to own a Dodge Tomahawk! Only $550,000, please. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10062&item=2456875016 - Sean Jordan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 2 13:13:07 2004 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'DCCycles'" Cc: "'timothy_duffy@XXXXXX'" Subject: Newbie Buyer Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 13:18:22 -0500 1. Welcome to the chaos Tim. 2. Yates is correct: "Auto trader & the Washington Post come to mind. Keep an eye on the list here too, somebody might decide to offload a backup bike cheap." Except Dave meant Cycletrader: 3. Plus the rest of his post. Dave surely wanted to add "Take a MSF course. A two day trip in 'Nam is no substitute for the survival skills a MSF course can give you." 4. Similar to the GS500 list, there are other lists that offer both technical support as well as camaraderie to keeping your vintage wheels rolling. E.g.: The Vintage Japanese Motorcycle club SabMag Why not European or 'Merican? Because you said, " I'm looking to spend about $1000. " 5. Gear: Two snaps and a "We don' wanna say, 'we told you so.'" You (& others) can save lotsa bucks on good gear by: a. checking out the local "Open houses". Pick up a copy of "Winding Roads -Motorcycle Times" (WRMT), a bimonthly freebie but a goodie at many local shops for lists. b. The Leather Exchange They're both local and DCCycles listers (How kewl is that?) c. Clearance areas. (Shhh, big secret but Battley's has a clearance area upstairs. I scored a pair of Held gloves for $50. They also have some "Fireside boots" that would look spiffy on Evil Carl, for $60. d. Coupon in WRMT good for 15% off of any one regular price "apparel item" at Bob's BMW (page 31) 6. Did I mention the MSF course? Carl in Bethesda Commuting into your nation's capital since 1981 through sun, rain, over snow, and around road ragers. '85 VF700S (Rocin-ahorito); '83 VF700F (666); '97 Aerostich Roadcrafter (Fred the Red); '02 JR Phoenix: (Amarillo Joe) Don't need no loud pipes; I got big honking tooters: http://members.tripod.com/~v65_magna/sos_99/sat_lunch2.jpg http://www.crosswinds.net/~denbrook/Motorcycles/Events/mmc-2-17-01/Carls_Sab re.jpg From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 2 13:19:12 2004 Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 13:19:05 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: "Verde, Robert" , corey , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Sunday ride After shoveling a little snow out from around the VFR, I went out for a 45-minute ride on Sunday, followed by some wrenching, in the snow. Wrenching topic here - http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~lists/archive/vfr/200402/msg00024.html Hey, it's February, ya ride 'em and wrench 'em when ya can. And it was actually above freezing and it's not too bad kneeling in the snow when you're wearing the Motoport suit. :) Paul in DC 95 VFR - 86 VF500F -----Original Message----- From: "Verde, Robert" Sunday was a pretty nice day for a ride, the errant spots of moisture on the roads were (almost) all melted. I rode from Falls Church to Bowie via 495 and 214, then headed into DC and caught a film at the new E Street Cinemas. (Nice place, but spendy; tickets were 9.25 and no matinee pricing.) Parking on E Street, I shared a space with a nice older BMW (R75?), which left when I was getting coffee before the movie. Leaving the film later, the BMW spot had been claimed by a new Magna, so there were certainly other riders out. Riding in today was dry, but nippy, tomorrow promises to be interesting... Robert From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 2 13:35:54 2004 Subject: Re: Newbie Buyer From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 02 Feb 2004 13:32:19 -0500 On Mon, 2004-02-02 at 13:18, Custer, Carl wrote: > 2. Yates is correct: > "Auto trader & the Washington Post come to mind. Keep an eye on the list > here too, somebody might decide to offload a backup bike cheap." > > Except Dave meant Cycletrader: > Well it _is_ new. I just got the first issue a couple of weeks ago at the local 7/11. > 5. Gear: > Two snaps and a "We don' wanna say, 'we told you so.'" > You (& others) can save lotsa bucks on good gear by: > c. Clearance areas. > (Shhh, big secret but Battley's has a clearance area upstairs. I scored a > pair of Held gloves for $50. They also have some "Fireside boots" that > would look spiffy on Evil Carl, for $60. > Actually I'm looking at the Sidi Waterproof boots: http://www.newenough.com/sidi_on_road_sympatex_boots_page.htm or, if I can't find them, the Harley ones are second on my list. Hmm, can't find a link off hand. Anyway, my current GBX boots seem to work fine, and I don't particularly like the flame boots; I'm more subtle than that :-) > Carl in Bethesda Evil Overlord Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 2 16:07:30 2004 Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 16:06:00 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: So Quiet Today Saturday I spent the afternoon with my bike in the garage, a space heater, a toothbrush and a can of WD-40. My chain is now visibly metal, rather than pure grease and grime. No major wear on the sprocket or the chain at ~20k miles for each. I panned on finishing out with an oil change, but things came up. I'll save that for another day off. My driveway is gravel covered by thick ice. So thick, that my 4WD requires at least two attempts to get out to street level. The bike remains in the garage until I can see the ground. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 2 16:23:44 2004 Subject: Re: So Quiet Today From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 02 Feb 2004 16:20:13 -0500 I'm busy fixing the little 'tweaks' done to the monitoring software while I was on vacation. It's amazing how people can't RTFM even with clear and complete on-line FM's. On Mon, 2004-02-02 at 16:06, Troutman wrote: > Saturday I spent the afternoon with my bike in the garage, a space heater, > a toothbrush and a can of WD-40. My chain is now visibly metal, rather > than pure grease and grime. No major wear on the sprocket or the chain at > ~20k miles for each. I panned on finishing out with an oil change, but > things came up. I'll save that for another day off. > Saturday I took all three bikes out for a little R&R (Riding and Replenishing). I check and topped off the air. It was cold enough that I couldn't feel my thumbs when I did the Suzuki. Then I rode them around for 30 to 45 minutes each. > My driveway is gravel covered by thick ice. So thick, that my 4WD requires > at least two attempts to get out to street level. The bike remains in the > garage until I can see the ground. > When I got back from vacation no one had shoveled the driveway or sidewalks so I had to break out the snow shovel _and_ the flat-edged shovel. The water had frozen at the meter last weekend. I spent two days talking to VA-American from Colorado to get it fixed. Then I had to call again on Friday because my neighbor had the same problem but no one had called. I got them out that afternoon and he was fixed up by the time he got home after midnight on Friday. How's that for service? The guy pulled up in a little Ranger, stuck a 1.5" diameter pvc pipe on to the exhaust of the truck and the other end was stuck into the access hole. In 5 minutes he had thawed it out enough that it was working. He packed it with insulation. I figure that since we were both out of town, there wasn't enough water running through the pipes to keep them clear. I seem to recall a comment about that several years ago about that very same thing. Anyway. It was a nice little ride in this morning and the mid-shift guy today thinks he's working late so I get to HOV home today as well. Rita caught the flu while in Winter Park so she's been sick all weekend. I keep thinking I'm catching it but the little twinges clear up after an hour or so (talking too much after two weeks of vacation=sore throat). Later. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 2 16:23:58 2004 Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 16:23:46 -0500 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: So Quiet Today X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz........huh? What? Oh, sorry. So bored at the office today that I'm about ready to fall asleep. I'm praying for a ton of bad weather tomorrow so I can stay home. :-) Scooter In a message dated 2/2/2004 4:06:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, mike@XXXXXX writes: > > > Saturday I spent the afternoon with my bike in the garage, a space heater, > a toothbrush and a can of WD-40. My chain is now visibly metal, rather > than pure grease and grime. No major wear on the sprocket or the chain at > ~20k miles for each. I panned on finishing out with an oil change, but > things came up. I'll save that for another day off. > > My driveway is gravel covered by thick ice. So thick, that my 4WD requires > at least two attempts to get out to street level. The bike > remains in the > garage until I can see the ground. > > ___________________________________________ > Mike Troutman > http://www.troutman.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 2 21:08:57 2004 From: "Mobacc" To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: The murky waters of Accident vs. Crime Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 20:57:25 -0500 With the Janklow and local sleepy driver affairs still warm, this on point discussion popped up yesterday. No real answers, lots of loose ends -- one poignant quote: "you have to punish that kind of negligence in order to keep people on their toes and to keep people from doing it again." "When Is An Accident A Crime?" http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/01/weekinreview/01dewa.html Bill S. / DC (IANAL) '99 VN750 > vote against both accidents and crimes Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 2 21:24:13 2004 Reply-To: From: "Michael H. Moore" To: Subject: AC Generator issues... Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 21:26:07 -0500 Yesterday while working on my bike I dropped the AC generator rotor. One magnet broke off. It looks like the magnet is unbroken. Can I service this piece by epoxying it back in place? If so, what type of adhesive can stand the conditions inside the engine? Or could this cause engine balance problems? Thanks, Mike From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 3 00:07:18 2004 From: "Rob Sharp" To: "Mobacc" , "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: The murky waters of Accident vs. Crime Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 00:08:36 -0500 http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/01/weekinreview/01dewa.html?ex=1390971600&en=dc725e3b1e2c1f93&ei=5007&partner=USERLAND So you dont have to register : ) Rob On Mon, 2 Feb 2004 20:57:25 -0500, Mobacc wrote > With the Janklow and local sleepy driver affairs still warm, this on > point discussion popped up yesterday. No real answers, lots of > loose ends -- one poignant quote: "you have to punish that kind of > negligence in order to keep people on their toes and to keep people > from doing it again." > > "When Is An Accident A Crime?" > http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/01/weekinreview/01dewa.html > > Bill S. / DC (IANAL) > '99 VN750 > vote against both accidents and crimes > Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 3 08:11:02 2004 Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 08:10:41 -0500 (EST) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: AC Generator issues... On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, Michael H. Moore wrote: > > Yesterday while working on my bike I dropped the AC generator rotor. One > magnet broke off. It looks like the magnet is unbroken. Can I service this > piece by epoxying it back in place? If so, what type of adhesive can stand > the conditions inside the engine? Or could this cause engine balance > problems? > I've posted similar thoughts previously... What's worth more, the price of a new one, or the cost of getting stuck on the side of the road because a repair job came undone? Me, I think I'd get a replacement, and see if I can get the old one refurbed professionally to save for a "spare." Is it a part that rotates? If so, balance while it is spinning would bother me. That said, have you looked at the specs for Ye-Oulde JB-Weld? -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 3 08:21:49 2004 Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 05:21:41 -0800 (PST) From: matthew patton Subject: Re: The murky waters of Accident vs. Crime To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX The jury foreman, James G. Mitchell, said that even though the jurors had not wanted to convict Mr. Janklow this says it all. IMO the higher the stature of the person the harder they need to fall. I can't believe they bought that pathetic excuse of a defense. Nor ignored his history of blatent disregard for others on the highways and unappologetic attitude about his behavior. The citizens of SD don't deserve to have Sturgis. The jury in incompetent as is the judge. My parents barely escaped death 6 months ago. Rammed from behind at 70+mph (they were stopped) by a very drunk driver. Said driver's career was as a traffic defense attorney getting drunk drivers off. They guy missed killing a construction worker by inches. These are the sort of people you throw in prison and lose the key. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 3 08:43:38 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 08:43:23 EST Subject: Re: AC Generator issues... To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 2/2/2004 9:24:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, mhmoore@XXXXXX writes: > Can I service this > piece by epoxying it back in place? Not just no, but HELL NO!!! It will explode and take out lord knows what when it does. (Remember it spins at crank speed, damn fast.) (And you cannot weld one either (do not ask)) Loud pipes quell cells. 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 3 09:12:16 2004 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'DCCycles'" Subject: Waterproof Boots Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 09:17:31 -0500 Carl Said: "Actually I'm looking at the Sidi Waterproof boots: http://www.newenough.com/sidi_on_road_sympatex_boots_page.htm " I was disappointed that many Sidi's don't have ankle protection. Wazzup with that? The new Sidi City boot has it. Speed Cycles in Elkridge has 'em. The Oxtar Matrix got kudos from MCN; looks better in person than the picture at NewEnough. Bob's BMW has 'em for $199. Minus the 15% coupon in WRMT, that's a pretty good price. The Prexport WP 539 looked quite spiffy at the DC MC Show and they got a glowing review from a LDR. Equipped with the 10% off show coupon, I traipsed down to Richmond to try 'em on at Velocity Cycles. Tho I wear a 8.5-9 shoe, that translates to a 41-42, I could not get the 42 on my foot. The owner was anxious to order a 43 for me but, I dunno. The Oxtar 43 at Bob's fit quite well. > (Shhh, big secret but Battley's has a clearance area upstairs. I > scored a pair of Held gloves for $50. They also have some "Fireside > boots" that would look spiffy on Evil Carl, for $60. Schelin Claimed: " . . . I don't particularly like the flame boots; I'm more subtle than that :-)" Humm he's building a Honda chopper. Jackson wore a pastie because . . .? FCC Chief Powell had his family gathered around the TV for a celebration . .and kept them through the song"I'm gonna get you naked . . ." Oh gummimint worker. Bye. Carl in Bethesda From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 3 10:29:20 2004 Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 07:29:17 -0800 (PST) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: The murky waters of Accident vs. Crime On Tue, 3 Feb 2004, matthew patton wrote: > These are the sort of people you throw in prison and lose the key. ... and then they become an ongoing financial burden on society. Better than a health hazard, perhaps, but I still wish there were a better solution. Felony, permanent revocation of driving privileges? Dunno. Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 3 10:43:58 2004 Subject: The Ride In From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 03 Feb 2004 10:40:25 -0500 Well, I didn't ride the bike this morning :-) My driveway was a sheet of ice. After sliding down the hill to the street I walked up the snow, unlocked the car and threw my backpack into the passenger seat. Then I went around the front of the car. I did a controled slide holding the hood and then the left mirror. I opened the car door and as I slid by, I grabbed the jamb. Unfortunately I immediately hit the driveway landing on my back. I lay there for a sec and then slid the rest of the way down the hill. It took two more tries to get in to the car. Rita had the seat forward and up so I had to bend at an awkward angle to adjust the seat enough to get in and start the car. Now my back muscles are painful and there a sore feeling when I breathe deeply. There's a tingle up the right side of my neck and my right shoulder has a twinge. At least if I was riding the bike, I'd be well padded :-/ Good luck today if you rode :-) Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 3 11:08:13 2004 Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 11:08:07 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: matthew patton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: The murky waters of Accident vs. Crime -----Original Message----- From: matthew patton The jury foreman, James G. Mitchell, said that even though the jurors had not wanted to convict Mr. Janklow this says it all. IMO the higher the stature of the person the harder they need to fall. I can't believe they bought that pathetic excuse of a defense. Nor ignored his history of blatent disregard for others on the highways and unappologetic attitude about his behavior. The citizens of SD don't deserve to have Sturgis. The jury in incompetent as is the judge. .... On the other hand, given the tools at their disposal (the laws of state of South Dakota) I'm having a hard time seeing how the jury or the judge acted improperly in the Janklow case. The judge allowed Janklow to present a vigorous defense and he barred prejudicial evidence. I suspect if we were sitting at the defendant's table we'd want the same treatment. And, still, despite what we might rightly view as medical red herrings brought up by the defense, Janklow was convicted. The quote above from the foreman tells me the system worked in this case. The jurors did follow the law and did vote to convict, setting aside their personal feelings or their doubts about what constitutes an "accident." No "jury nullification" at work here folks. It seems our beef about people killing motorcyclists with impunity is a matter that should be taken up by the legislature, not the judiciary. Paul in DC 95 VFR - 86VF500F From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 3 11:10:05 2004 Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 11:10:01 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: The Ride In No problems riding this morning, although the last 200 feet getting into the building (on foot) was the most hazardous part of the journey. Slip, slide, slip, slide.... Paul in DC - 95 VFR - 86 VF500F -----Original Message----- From: Carl Schelin Well, I didn't ride the bike this morning :-) My driveway was a sheet of ice. After sliding down the hill to the street I walked up the snow, unlocked the car and threw my backpack into the passenger seat. Then I went around the front of the car. I did a controled slide holding the hood and then the left mirror. I opened the car door and as I slid by, I grabbed the jamb. .... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 3 11:12:21 2004 From: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" To: "'Carl Schelin'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: The Ride In Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 11:12:11 -0500 I was slipping and sliding today too. I slipped indoors on a little water on the floor from one of the kids and hit my head on the refrigerator. OUCH! I then fell outside trying to put the trash can out to the curb. The trash can went one way and I went the other. It even made me laugh. My head hurts. -----Original Message----- From: Carl Schelin [mailto:cschelin@XXXXXX] Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 10:40 AM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: The Ride In Well, I didn't ride the bike this morning :-) My driveway was a sheet of ice. After sliding down the hill to the street I walked up the snow, unlocked the car and threw my backpack into the passenger seat. Then I went around the front of the car. I did a controled slide holding the hood and then the left mirror. I opened the car door and as I slid by, I grabbed the jamb. Unfortunately I immediately hit the driveway landing on my back. I lay there for a sec and then slid the rest of the way down the hill. It took two more tries to get in to the car. Rita had the seat forward and up so I had to bend at an awkward angle to adjust the seat enough to get in and start the car. Now my back muscles are painful and there a sore feeling when I breathe deeply. There's a tingle up the right side of my neck and my right shoulder has a twinge. At least if I was riding the bike, I'd be well padded :-/ Good luck today if you rode :-) Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 3 11:16:33 2004 Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 11:16:47 -0500 To: matthew patton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: The murky waters of Accident vs. Crime At 05:21 AM 2/3/04 -0800, matthew patton wrote: > The jury foreman, James G. Mitchell, said that even though the >jurors had not wanted to convict Mr. Janklow > >this says it all. IMO the higher the stature of the person the harder >they need to fall. I can't believe they bought that pathetic excuse of >a defense. >From what I read, they didn't. The foreman said that they agreed he had a responsibility not to let his disability become a hazard...that he knew he had the condition and should have taken care of it. He was negligent. >Nor ignored his history of blatent disregard for others on >the highways and unappologetic attitude about his behavior. >From other articles I read on the case, I think the judge wouldn't allow his prior driving history to be admitted into evidence. If so, they weren't allowed to take that into account...though I'd say it was certainly relevant...it showed a history of disregard for the safety of others, and that he had been repeatedly informed that this wasn't good. It would remove any "I didn't know this could happen" excuse. >The citizens of SD don't deserve to have Sturgis. The jury in incompetent >as is the judge. The Jury convicted him. The judge let him off easy on the sentence. Whether SD deserves to have Sturgis or not depends on what they do about this sort of thing. I expect Sturgis will happen anyway, but there will be many who boycott it. >My parents barely escaped death 6 months ago. Rammed from behind at >70+mph (they were stopped) by a very drunk driver. Said driver's career >was as a traffic defense attorney getting drunk drivers off. They guy >missed killing a construction worker by inches. These are the sort of >people you throw in prison and lose the key. Agreed. On the other hand, my mother was once hit in the same way, but by a 16 year old kid driving his parents LTD. He wasn't drunk, just inexperienced and not paying enough attention to his driving (I suspect radio use was partly to blame). He expected cars on the interstate to be moving, but they weren't, and he was too close to stop by the time he realized it. Locked the wheels and slid into my mom's car. Luckily my mom was driving a '74 Cougar XR7 (several thousand pounds with a big V8), so, while the car was accordioned all the way up to the rear axle, and the car was shoved, with brakes locked, 20' forward into the car stopped in front of her, she got away pretty much uninjured (some pulled muscles). My mom was paying attention, and watching the rear view in case some loon did exactly what happened. When she realized he wasn't going to stop she put both feet on the brake, put her head back solidly on the head rest, and snugged the seat belt and shoulder belt. Staying alert is your best defense, no matter what you are driving or riding. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 3 11:18:54 2004 Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 11:17:45 -0500 From: Skip CC: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: The murky waters of Accident vs. Crime not sure what they call it, but they make you stay at home, wear an anklet, and they call you a few times a day. cheaper than incarceration, and it accomplishes the same goal. Fish Flowers wrote: > > On Tue, 3 Feb 2004, matthew patton wrote: > > > These are the sort of people you throw in prison and lose the key. > > ... and then they become an ongoing financial burden on society. Better > than a health hazard, perhaps, but I still wish there were a better > solution. > > Felony, permanent revocation of driving privileges? Dunno. > > Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 3 11:19:05 2004 Subject: RE: The Ride In Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 11:18:54 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Carl Schelin" , Outside of the hassle of negotiating the compacted snow and ice dams that block the bike in the parking lot, the roads were pretty clear. Wet, and slushy in spots, but I suspect the residual salt from last week took care of any potential ice on the roads. It did get messier when I turned into my parking lot, more slush mixed with a half-inch of sand, made for some entertaining riding... ;-) Got slushier as I gained elevation, commute is from Falls Church to Reston. Turns out my tank bag leaks at the zippers, though, so the contents were a bit damp. My bike messenger bag kept everything dry, except for the laptop accessory I had forgotten in the external *mesh* pocket. D'oh! Got to get a Fog City, though, my face was pretty wet from cracking the visor to clear the fog. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 3 11:22:36 2004 Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 11:21:27 -0500 From: Skip CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: AC Generator issues... "Daniel H. Brown" wrote: > > On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, Michael H. Moore wrote: > > > > Yesterday while working on my bike I dropped the AC generator rotor. One > > magnet broke off. It looks like the magnet is unbroken. Can I service this > > piece by epoxying it back in place? If so, what type of adhesive can stand > > the conditions inside the engine? Or could this cause engine balance > > problems? > > > > I've posted similar thoughts previously... What's worth more, the price of > a new one, or the cost of getting stuck on the side of the road because a > repair job came undone? > > Me, I think I'd get a replacement, and see if I can get the old one > refurbed professionally to save for a "spare." Is it a part that rotates? > If so, balance while it is spinning would bother me. That said, have you > looked at the specs for Ye-Oulde JB-Weld? having used both extensively, I've found that PC-7 works better than JB-Weld, which, according to the package, "is even better than baling wire" --skip, getting ready to epoxy the block on the Saturn. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 3 11:27:55 2004 Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 11:27:37 -0500 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: The murky waters of Accident vs. Crime X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 House Arrest. Scooter In a message dated 2/3/2004 11:17:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, skip@XXXXXX writes: > > > not sure what they call it, but they make you stay at home, wear an anklet, and > they call you a few times a day. cheaper than incarceration, and it > accomplishes the same goal. > > Fish Flowers wrote: > > > > On Tue, 3 Feb 2004, matthew patton wrote: > > > > > These are the sort of people you throw in prison and lose the key. > > > > ... and then they become an ongoing financial burden on society. Better > > than a health hazard, perhaps, but I still wish there > were a better > > solution. > > > > Felony, permanent revocation of driving privileges? Dunno. > > > > Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 3 11:43:53 2004 Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 11:43:48 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: "Custer, Carl" , "'DCCycles'" Subject: Re: Waterproof Boots I lurv my Sidi Vertebra 2 Te-pors. Absolutely dry, warm (also warm in summer, natch) excellent protection and come exclusively in cow-friendly Lorica. I can't vouch for their tractive properties on ice-covered bricks, though. Paul in DC -----Original Message----- From: "Custer, Carl" Carl Said: "Actually I'm looking at the Sidi Waterproof boots: http://www.newenough.com/sidi_on_road_sympatex_boots_page.htm " I was disappointed that many Sidi's don't have ankle protection. Wazzup with that? The new Sidi City boot has it. Speed Cycles in Elkridge has 'em. The Oxtar Matrix got kudos from MCN; looks better in person than the picture at NewEnough. Bob's BMW has 'em for $199. Minus the 15% coupon in WRMT, that's a pretty good price. The Prexport WP 539 .... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 3 11:55:11 2004 Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 11:41:43 -0500 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: The Ride In At 10:40 AM 2/3/04 -0500, Carl Schelin wrote: >grabbed the jamb. Unfortunately I immediately hit the driveway landing >on my back. Ouch. I did that a few years ago. Luckily I'd ben going to Aikido class long enough at that point to know how to do a breakfall, so I didn't get hurt. It just stung a bit. I highly recommend that *everyone* who is even a little bit physically fit take enough Aikido to learn to fall properly. You don't have to be an athlete or in great shape (I'm not) to do it. We've had 70 year old women in the class, and while they weren't flinging around like the 20-something guys, they did learn to fall without getting hurt. I've had that training save me twice so far (the other fall was backwards down a short flight of steps (4) into my den (carpet over concrete)...not even any pain from that one...it was a good backroll with no real impact at all, though I did knock a hole in the wall with my hip on the way down). I've heard stories of others who have done forward rolls across car hoods when cars pulled out in front of them on their bikes (non-moto type). I don't know personally of anyone who's used it in a moto accident, but it couldn't hurt, and it is even fun. >Now my back muscles are painful and there a sore feeling when I breathe >deeply. There's a tingle up the right side of my neck and my right >shoulder has a twinge. Sounds like you've at the very least pulled some muscles, and you may have cracked a rib. You might want to consider getting looked over by a doctor just to find out for sure. They can't do much about the muscles except give you pain killers and muscle relaxants, but if you've busted a rib, it's best to know about it, though all they can do is tape you up to limit movement. You probably haven't, but.... >At least if I was riding the bike, I'd be well padded :-/ Nobody says you can't wear your bike gear in the car... :^) >Good luck today if you rode :-) Not me! I'm probably not going out at all...though it seems to be rain here...the snow's even melting. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 3 11:56:54 2004 From: Michael Lynch To: "'Paul Wilson'" , "Custer, Carl" , "'DCCycles'" Subject: RE: Waterproof Boots Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 11:58:14 -0500 The Teknic Defenders let me down this morning. Both boots leaked on the inside of the feet, right at the ball of the foot. I'm about to say F it and buy the Sidi Sympatex. Also, the TourMaster pants leaked at the crotch :-/ and the Gericke Cordura/Goretex jacket soaked up about 20lbs worth of water!?? Didn't let any water _through_ but was SOAKED itself. Talk about major issues with gear all of a sudden... oye. Mike 98 XR400 96 VFR 76 CB400F > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Wilson [SMTP:viffermaniac@XXXXXX] > Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 11:44 AM > To: Custer, Carl; 'DCCycles' > Subject: Re: Waterproof Boots > > I lurv my Sidi Vertebra 2 Te-pors. Absolutely dry, warm (also warm in > summer, natch) excellent protection and come exclusively in cow-friendly > Lorica. > > I can't vouch for their tractive properties on ice-covered bricks, though. > > Paul in DC > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Custer, Carl" > > > Carl Said: > "Actually I'm looking at the Sidi Waterproof boots: > http://www.newenough.com/sidi_on_road_sympatex_boots_page.htm " > > I was disappointed that many Sidi's don't have ankle protection. > Wazzup with that? The new Sidi City boot has it. > > Speed Cycles in Elkridge has 'em. > > > The Oxtar Matrix got kudos from MCN; looks better in person than the > picture > at NewEnough. > Bob's BMW has 'em for $199. Minus the 15% coupon in WRMT, that's a pretty > good price. > > The Prexport WP 539 .... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 3 12:34:09 2004 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'Michael Lynch'" , "'Paul Wilson'" , "'DCCycles'" Subject: Waterproof Boots Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 12:39:25 -0500 Michael Lamented. "The Teknic Defenders let me down this morning. Both boots leaked on the inside of the feet, right at the ball of the foot. I'm about to say F it and buy the Sidi Sympatex. Also, the TourMaster pants leaked at the crotch :-/ and the Gericke Cordura/Goretex jacket soaked up about 20lbs worth of water!?? Didn't let any water _through_ but was SOAKED itself." Even the mighty Aerostich has a reputation for leaking at the crotch after a few hours. FWIW, the two piece Dry Riders I had worked great (& fit well in the left pocket of my Quicksilver) until after several years, the pants wore through. (sigh) If you can wear a 42, Battley's had one pair of Sidis up in the clearance section. It's a Vertebra race boot, for $99. It's just to the right of the Harley Firesides. Carl in Bethesda From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 3 12:44:32 2004 Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 12:47:56 -0500 Subject: Re: AC Generator issues... To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "garcia oliver" I've been able to epoxy magnets that don't spin (e.g. starter motor) or that spin while held inside a cage (some generators). In both cases these were repairs for magnets that had been initially held in place by epoxy. I wouldn't try it on a spinning part that will go flying if the epoxy fails. Actually, I did try that, in an experiment to make a magnetic trigger for a long-unavailable electronic ignition pickup coil. Worked for about 10 minutes. --garcia "I drank WHAT?" --Socrates > >> Yesterday while working on my bike I dropped the AC generator rotor. >One >> magnet broke off. It looks like the magnet is unbroken. Can I service >this >> piece by epoxying it back in place? If so, what type of adhesive can >stand >> the conditions inside the engine? Or could this cause engine balance >> problems? >> From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 4 08:47:27 2004 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'DCCycles'" Cc: "'DC-Matthew Patton'" Subject: The murky waters of Accident vs. Crime Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 08:52:35 -0500 Matthew Proposed: " . . .The citizens of SD don't deserve to have Sturgis." Salt on the wound: and a little salve: Local newspaper article with local opinions. (he should have gotten more time) I for one will not go to Sturgis this year Never have and likely would not anyway. But, I do know a few who have and canceled this year's plans. Anyone have plans for Bike Week yet? Carl in Bethesda From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 4 09:11:22 2004 Subject: Re: The murky waters of Accident vs. Crime From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 04 Feb 2004 09:07:51 -0500 On Wed, 2004-02-04 at 08:52, Custer, Carl wrote: > Matthew Proposed: > > " . . .The citizens of SD don't deserve to have Sturgis." > > Salt on the wound: > > > and a little salve: > Local newspaper article with local opinions. > > (he should have gotten more time) > > I for one will not go to Sturgis this year > Never have and likely would not anyway. I went to Sturgis SD but not to _Sturgis_ if you understand the difference. I went to Daytona... for two hours (long enough to drive through town). > But, I do know a few who have and canceled this year's plans. > > Anyone have plans for Bike Week yet? Which bike week? Daytona? Laconia? Sturgis? Biketoberfest? HSTA? :-) > Carl in Bethesda > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 4 12:17:57 2004 Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 09:17:35 -0800 (PST) From: Leon Begeman Subject: RE: Daytona, was: murky waters To: "Custer, Carl" , "'DCCycles'" Cc: "'DC-Matthew Patton'" --- "Custer, Carl" wrote: > Anyone have plans for Bike Week yet? I have paid for the Iron Butt Dinner on Friday the 5th. Work tentatively has me start inventorying places in Florida on Monday the 9th. If it works out right, I'll have Friday, Saturday and Sunday in the Daytona area before riding around the country for the next 3 weeks. Leon Ninja 250 rider. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 4 14:16:03 2004 From: "Mobacc" To: "DC-Cycles" Cc: Subject: NYT link Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 14:12:09 -0500 Hello Rob-- That extra link language looks like quite a help. Does that same addon work for all free NYT article accesses? If so, I'll start adding it (as registered, signin is not an issue with me but want to make it easier for others). Thanks. Bill S. / DC '99 VN750 > easier for me too. Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From: "Rob Sharp" rob@XXXXXX http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/01/weekinreview/01dewa.html?ex=1390971600&en= dc725e3b1e2c1f93&ei=5007&partner=USERLAND So you dont have to register : ) Rob From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 4 14:35:34 2004 Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 14:41:14 -0500 To: DC-Cycles@XXXXXX From: "Kathleen E. Miller" Subject: Re: NYT link Hey guys. What's wrong with registering? Aw, come on, register. ;-) Kathleen E. Miller Research Assistant to William Safire The New York Times At 02:12 PM 2/4/2004 -0500, Mobacc wrote: >Hello Rob-- > > That extra link language looks like quite a help. Does that same addon >work for all free NYT article accesses? If so, I'll start adding it (as >registered, signin is not an issue with me but want to make it easier for >others). > >Thanks. > >Bill S. / DC >'99 VN750 > easier for me too. >Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. > > >From: "Rob Sharp" rob@XXXXXX > >http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/01/weekinreview/01dewa.html?ex=1390971600&en= >dc725e3b1e2c1f93&ei=5007&partner=USERLAND > >So you dont have to register : ) > >Rob From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 4 16:00:18 2004 Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 15:54:26 -0500 To: "DC-Cycles" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: The murky waters of Accident vs. Crime At 08:52 AM 2/4/04 -0500, Custer, Carl wrote: >Matthew Proposed: > >" . . .The citizens of SD don't deserve to have Sturgis." > >Salt on the wound: > I wonder if he'll stay in there? I suspect not. > and a little salve: >Local newspaper article with local opinions. > >(he should have gotten more time) He should have gotten more time. It wasn't an accident. An accident is something unforeseen that happens. This was easily foreseen...that's why we have laws against doing what he was doing. He didn't intend to kill, but he did intend to break the law in a way known to kill all too often. He intentionally put others in a level of danger not allowed by our society...and then he killed one of them. That's not "just an accident". > I for one will not go to Sturgis this year Me either. > Never have and likely would not anyway. Me either. :^) >But, I do know a few who have and canceled this year's plans. Me too. rec.motorcycles.harley has a lively discussion going about it. There are those who feel very strongly both ways. I'm sure the attendance will be down this year. How much is open to guessing. >Anyone have plans for Bike Week yet? No, but they probably won't include going to Florida when I do. Maybe next year. Need to work up to long distance, multi-day rides I think. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 4 16:00:53 2004 Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 16:00:11 -0500 To: "Kathleen E. Miller" , DC-Cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: NYT link At 02:41 PM 2/4/04 -0500, Kathleen E. Miller wrote: >Hey guys. What's wrong with registering? Aw, come on, register. >;-) 1. It's a hassle to do. Time is money and all that. 2. It's a privacy thing. 3. It's a hassle to remember the registration info for future sign ins that may or may not ever happen anyway (I've got dozens of username/password combinations to remember for work and other things I *have* to do, I'm not going to get more just to look at an article one time...I'll just miss it. Same goes for the Washington Post site and their sign-in thing, so it's nothing to do with the Times in particular.) 4. I get enough spam as it is. I'm not handing out contact info to anyone I don't have to (and when I do, it's usually a unique address...like this one...so I can tell who's been selling the info, or having it stolen by jerks...). 5. It's a hassle in general, and so annoying. 6. Yes, I saw the smiley, but I'm answering anyway. :^) -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 4 17:08:48 2004 Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 17:08:42 -0500 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: NYT link To: Mike Bartman Cc: "Kathleen E. Miller" , DC-Cycles@XXXXXX Apologies for top posting... Mike, you forgot the single most significant reason not to object - It's the NY TIMES for G*d's sake! Satan's own Charmin... Dave >At 02:41 PM 2/4/04 -0500, Kathleen E. Miller wrote: >>Hey guys. What's wrong with registering? Aw, come on, register. >>;-) > >1. It's a hassle to do. Time is money and all that. > >2. It's a privacy thing. > >3. It's a hassle to remember the registration info for future sign ins that >may or may not ever happen anyway (I've got dozens of username/password >combinations to remember for work and other things I *have* to do, I'm not >going to get more just to look at an article one time...I'll just miss it. >Same goes for the Washington Post site and their sign-in thing, so it's >nothing to do with the Times in particular.) > >4. I get enough spam as it is. I'm not handing out contact info to anyone >I don't have to (and when I do, it's usually a unique address...like this >one...so I can tell who's been selling the info, or having it stolen by >jerks...). > >5. It's a hassle in general, and so annoying. > >6. Yes, I saw the smiley, but I'm answering anyway. :^) > > > >-- Mike B. > >'04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) > >Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes >is better. > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 4 17:16:53 2004 Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 14:16:25 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: NYT link To: "Kathleen E. Miller" , DC-Cycles@XXXXXX Ms. Miller, Mike pretty well summed it up. I have to deal with at least a thousand emails a day, all but fifty or so spam, so that point's especially important to me. Don't discount the false information point. I've given the Post at least a thousand different false replies to their name, age, and zip screen since they began operation. I'd certainly do the same for you. I have been registered with the Times site since you began operation. However, with the Post's recent announcement, this is getting out of hand. My wife and I are Times and Post daily print subscribers who may well cancel both subscriptions over this issue. Requiring employment information is way, way over the top. Guess I'll have to get out my prized ollection of Bill Safire "On Language" response post cards and tear them up, since he and his staff don't seem to care about civil liberties any more. 8;) -- Larry --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 02:41 PM 2/4/04 -0500, Kathleen E. Miller wrote: > >Hey guys. What's wrong with registering? Aw, come on, > register. > >;-) > > 1. It's a hassle to do. Time is money and all that. > > 2. It's a privacy thing. > > 3. It's a hassle to remember the registration info for > future sign ins that > may or may not ever happen anyway (I've got dozens of > username/password > combinations to remember for work and other things I *have* > to do, I'm not > going to get more just to look at an article one > time...I'll just miss it. > Same goes for the Washington Post site and their sign-in > thing, so it's > nothing to do with the Times in particular.) > > 4. I get enough spam as it is. I'm not handing out contact > info to anyone > I don't have to (and when I do, it's usually a unique > address...like this > one...so I can tell who's been selling the info, or having > it stolen by > jerks...). > > 5. It's a hassle in general, and so annoying. > > 6. Yes, I saw the smiley, but I'm answering anyway. :^) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 4 18:50:20 2004 From: "Michael Jordan" To: "'DCCycles'" Subject: RE: Daytona, was: murky waters Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 18:50:18 -0500 > I have paid for the Iron Butt Dinner on Friday the 5th. Work > tentatively has me start inventorying places in Florida on > Monday the 9th. Leon, you absolutely amaze me. See you there Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 4 22:02:50 2004 Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 22:02:31 -0500 From: Dale Horstman To: Leon Begeman CC: "'DCCycles'" Subject: Re: Daytona, was: murky waters Leon Begeman wrote: > If it works out right, I'll have Friday, Saturday and > Sunday in the Daytona area before riding around the > country for the next 3 weeks. Have we mentioned how much WE HATE YOU lately? :) Horkster, envious -- Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark) Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX '98 Concours - BugSlayer Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth '99 Concours - Grape Nehi CM #001 NRA IBA COG '82 GS850G - Neat old bike The Mason Dixon 20-20 Endurance Rally: The Games People Play Come join us in 2004: http://www.masondixon20-20.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 4 23:53:58 2004 From: "Rob Sharp" To: "Kathleen E. Miller" , DC-Cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: NYT link Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 23:55:31 -0500 What kind of bike do you ride Kathleen ? Never heard from you on the list b4.. Rob On Wed, 04 Feb 2004 14:41:14 -0500, Kathleen E. Miller wrote > Hey guys. What's wrong with registering? Aw, come on, register. > ;-) > > Kathleen E. Miller > Research Assistant to William Safire > The New York Times > > At 02:12 PM 2/4/2004 -0500, Mobacc wrote: > >Hello Rob-- > > > > That extra link language looks like quite a help. Does that same addon > >work for all free NYT article accesses? If so, I'll start adding it (as > >registered, signin is not an issue with me but want to make it easier for > >others). > > > >Thanks. > > > >Bill S. / DC > >'99 VN750 > easier for me too. > >Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. > > > > > >From: "Rob Sharp" rob@XXXXXX > > > >http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/01/weekinreview/01dewa.html?ex=1390971600&en= > >dc725e3b1e2c1f93&ei=5007&partner=USERLAND > > > >So you dont have to register : ) > > > >Rob -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 5 00:00:01 2004 Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 20:59:58 -0800 (PST) From: Steve Beck Subject: Re: NYT link Bwa ha ha ha ha ha! To: DC-Cycles@XXXXXX I will cheerfully end several years of just lurking to get a dig in on this one. By all means folks, you should register with completely false information to the NYT. After all, some of the reporters they hire have a penchant for filing stories with completely false information. We can get journalism like that by reading the headlines of the tabloids while standing in line at the grocery store. You know, like the one that reads "Saddam & Osama's gay wedding" or how about "Lose 70 lbs. in 15 days with flesh-eating bacteria" Now that's rivoting journalism. --- "Kathleen E. Miller" wrote: > Hey guys. What's wrong with registering? Aw, come > on, register. > ;-) > > Kathleen E. Miller > Research Assistant to William Safire > The New York Times __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 5 08:33:20 2004 Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 05:33:15 -0800 (PST) From: Leon Begeman Subject: Re: Daytona, was: murky waters To: Dale Horstman Cc: "'DCCycles'" --- Retired Horkster wrote: > Have we mentioned how much WE HATE YOU lately? :) > Dale, If it weren't for the small matter of the paycheck, I'd gladly trade jobs with you and let you go on this trip. There's plenty of envy to go around. Leon. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 5 09:37:32 2004 Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 09:37:23 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Speeding Moto kills jogger in Tampa This story is starting to make some waves down in Tampa. http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf8&client=google&num=30&newsclusterurl=http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article%3FAID%3D/20040204/NEWS/402040365/1004 ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 5 09:51:57 2004 From: "Jim McGonigle" To: Subject: RE: Speeding Moto kills jogger in Tampa Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 09:51:07 -0500 What a biased article. The best they found is 2 tickets in 20 years??? He still deserves to be put away for a long time. 80mph isn't slightly speeding and if the bike really went 300 yards then he was going faster than that. -Jim -----Original Message----- From: Troutman [mailto:mike@XXXXXX] Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 9:37 AM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Speeding Moto kills jogger in Tampa This story is starting to make some waves down in Tampa. http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf8&client=google&num=30& newsclusterurl=http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article%3FAID%3D/20040 204/NEWS/402040365/1004 ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 5 09:58:30 2004 Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 10:04:06 -0500 To: DC-Cycles@XXXXXX From: "Kathleen E. Miller" Subject: Re: NYT link Bwa ha ha ha ha ha! At 08:59 PM 2/4/2004 -0800, you wrote: > "Saddam & Osama's gay wedding" > >or how about > > "Lose 70 lbs. in 15 days with flesh-eating bacteria" > >Now that's rivoting journalism. My personal favorite is "A Space Alien Raped My Weedeater." And I ride a 1996 Honda VT600CD Shadow VLX Deluxe - not a beginner, but still scared stiff of the beltway. Hell, I'm scared of it in my car. Kathleen E. Miller Research Assistant to William Safire The Much Maligned New York Times ;-) (hey, I just work here.) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 5 10:07:33 2004 From: To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: NYT link Bwa ha ha ha ha ha! Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 10:07:26 -0500 > > From: "Kathleen E. Miller" > Date: 2004/02/05 Thu AM 10:04:06 EST > To: DC-Cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: NYT link Bwa ha ha ha ha ha! > > At 08:59 PM 2/4/2004 -0800, you wrote: > > > "Saddam & Osama's gay wedding" > > > >or how about > > > > "Lose 70 lbs. in 15 days with flesh-eating bacteria" > > > >Now that's rivoting journalism. > > My personal favorite is "A Space Alien Raped My Weedeater." And I ride a > 1996 Honda VT600CD Shadow VLX Deluxe - not a beginner, but still scared > stiff of the beltway. Hell, I'm scared of it in my car. > > ...the spam mail is getting worse too. First it was "GAIN 8 INCHES TO YOUR MANHOOD! Then it changed to "GAIN 4" OF GIRTH TO YOUR ROD!" And just the other day I got a spam mail with the title: "ADD 3LBS TO YOUR PENIS!" Do you think someone is trying to tell me something? ;-) -aki From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 5 10:12:19 2004 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'Custer, Mary'" , "'Custer, Steph'" , "'Dockery, Tony'" , "'Dockery, Donna'" , "'DCCycles'" Cc: "'jdhaydt@XXXXXX'" Subject: small pickup for sale Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 10:17:32 -0500 Contact him not me. Or pass it on to someone who wants a reliable vehicle from a reliable guy. Carl in Bethesda Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 07:15:54 -0600 From: John Haydt Anyone looking for a small pickup lemme know. I've got two: -1990 Nissan 4x4 3.0L V6 Extended Cab ($3000) with a freshly rebuilt transmission and electric everything. -2001 Mazda B3000 3.0L V6 Dual Sport ($10500). Extended Cab, etc. Gonna sell either one. Offlist will get you details and pix if interested. John Haydt Lansdale, PA Snow, it could be worse. Vintage bikers: http://www.knoxnews.com/kns/north_knox/article/0,1406,KNS_368_2624149,00.htm l "We want to be free to drink our espresso, ride our machines and not be hassled by the man." Oh gee, I recognize that parody From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 5 10:30:18 2004 Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 10:30:11 -0500 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: NYT link Bwa ha ha ha ha ha! To: DC-Cycles@XXXXXX KEM confesses: >My personal favorite is "A Space Alien Raped My Weedeater." [Dave] Would you be willing to look that article up for me? I have knowledge of where my former non working snow blower is, and would definitely like to know if this space alien has a fetish for snow blowers too. It has already suffered the fate of 10,000 sledgehammer hits, but as the final indignation, why not a raping by space alien? >And I ride a 1996 Honda VT600CD Shadow VLX Deluxe - not a >beginner, but still scared stiff of the beltway. Hell, I'm >scared of it in my car. [Dave] Good for you (the bike), and the beltway isn't that bad most of the time... except... rush hours in the morning, midday, and evening and when they're doing construction... which is, what? Perpetual... :-/ >Kathleen E. Miller >Research Assistant to William Safire >The Much Maligned New York Times ;-) >(hey, I just work here.) [Dave] Maybe since you're on DCC, we can overlook that ;-) Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 5 10:38:20 2004 From: To: "Custer, Carl" , "'Custer, Mary'" , "'Custer, Steph'" , "'Dockery, Tony'" , "'Dockery, Donna'" , "'DCCycles'" CC: "'jdhaydt@XXXXXX'" Subject: Re: small pickup for sale Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 10:38:11 -0500 > Snow, it could be worse. > ..above link doesn't work. ?? -aki From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 5 10:57:56 2004 Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 10:57:50 -0500 To: "Jim McGonigle" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: Speeding Moto kills jogger in Tampa At 09:51 AM 2/5/04 -0500, Jim McGonigle wrote: > >He still deserves to be put away for a long time. 80mph isn't slightly >speeding and if the bike really went 300 yards then he was going faster than >that. It also sounds like he lane split to hit her. THe article wasn't full of detail on the circumstances, but I ended up with a picture like this: Two lanes of traffic stopped at a red light. Bike approaches, going very fast, from the rear, as the light goes green. Rather than brake and wait his turn, he lane splits between the two lines of traffic, and accelerates, thinking "neat! I'll pass all this slow stuff before it can get going!" and he hits the lady in the crosswalk on the far side of the intersection after trying, and failing, to avoid the collision due to lack of time resulting from excessive speed. Don't know if that's what happened, but that's what it sounded like from the few bits in the four articles referenced, when combined with 30 years of driving experience and more than that learning about human nature. Another, "not an accident" situation.... -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 5 10:57:56 2004 Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 10:52:26 -0500 To: Troutman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Speeding Moto kills jogger in Tampa At 09:37 AM 2/5/04 -0500, Troutman wrote: >This story is starting to make some waves down in Tampa. > >http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf8&client=google&num=30 &newsclusterurl=http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article%3FAID%3D/2004 0204/NEWS/402040365/1004 Wonder if this will result in calls to ban "assault bikes"? It certainly isn't going to do much for calls to allow "lane splitting". It only takes a few jerks to spoil things for everyone. One thing is pretty sure, they won't come down against jogging... -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 5 11:10:31 2004 Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 11:05:41 -0500 To: "Kathleen E. Miller" , DC-Cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: NYT link Bwa ha ha ha ha ha! At 10:04 AM 2/5/04 -0500, Kathleen E. Miller wrote: >At 08:59 PM 2/4/2004 -0800, you wrote: > >> "Saddam & Osama's gay wedding" >> >>or how about >> >> "Lose 70 lbs. in 15 days with flesh-eating bacteria" >> >>Now that's rivoting journalism. > >My personal favorite is "A Space Alien Raped My Weedeater." "Expiring minds want to know..." Back when I worked at Goddard one of the guys in my group used to get those things for entertainment. Laughed himself silly at times. Only story I remember was about the lost fighters from the Bermuda Triangle incident in the 40's being found on the moon. They had a picture of a B-17 bomber sitting in a crater to "prove" it (apparently they thought a 4 engine bomber looks enough like a P-47 fighter that nobody would notice). Because we were at Goddard, we decided to ask around and see if we could identify the crater. The bomber completely filled the crater, so we started out looking for a small one, but as it turns out that crater is really over 200 miles across. We figured the vacuum had caused the bomber to expand in the same way that marshmallows do... :^) Weird Al did a song about that sort of article..."Midnight Star" I think it was. One of his first few albums. >And I ride a >1996 Honda VT600CD Shadow VLX Deluxe - not a beginner, but still scared >stiff of the beltway. Hell, I'm scared of it in my car. I'm not scared of the beltway, especially in my car, but I am *very* alert when I'm on it. People around here just can't drive. I figure they're giving out driver's licenses in boxes of Cracker Jacks or something. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 5 11:10:33 2004 Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 11:10:25 -0500 To: , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Re: NYT link Bwa ha ha ha ha ha! At 10:07 AM 2/5/04 -0500, adamme1@XXXXXX wrote: >...the spam mail is getting worse too. > >First it was "GAIN 8 INCHES TO YOUR MANHOOD! I'm tall enough, thank you very much...another 8" and I'd never find a production bike I could ride! >Then it changed to "GAIN 4" OF GIRTH TO YOUR ROD!" I don't need a fatter bike either! >"ADD 3LBS TO YOUR PENIS!" > >Do you think someone is trying to tell me something? ;-) They sell really small saddle bags? They are idiots, or they think you are? Or both? Why can't Janklow just start running down SPAMmers? No jury would convict him for that! -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 5 11:33:00 2004 Subject: RE: Speeding Moto kills jogger in Tampa From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 05 Feb 2004 11:29:26 -0500 On Thu, 2004-02-05 at 10:57, Mike Bartman wrote: > Two lanes of traffic stopped at a red light. Bike approaches, going very > fast, from the rear, as the light goes green. Rather than brake and wait > his turn, he lane splits between the two lines of traffic, and accelerates, > thinking "neat! I'll pass all this slow stuff before it can get going!" > and he hits the lady in the crosswalk on the far side of the intersection > after trying, and failing, to avoid the collision due to lack of time > resulting from excessive speed. > One of the lines in the article mentioned that she had almost reached the grassy median. From that line I'd have to say he was on the shoulder/close to the curb. I'm not so sure about the light though. She seemed sure enough to cross the street even with traffic so a light had to have been involved but he was doing 80+ when he hit her. Maybe he was trying to dust her off and misjudged how close the car was to him/he was to her. Since she had headphones on, she wouldn't have heard him coming until maybe the last second and wouldn't have known to jump out of the way. > Don't know if that's what happened, but that's what it sounded like from > the few bits in the four articles referenced, when combined with 30 years > of driving experience and more than that learning about human nature. > > Another, "not an accident" situation.... > In any case, with his record and age (he should know better), he should certainly get more than 100 days :-/ > > -- Mike B. > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 5 12:56:35 2004 From: "Doug Allis" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Whats wrong with Registering? Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 12:44:58 -0500 Mainly this: I have had it with every GD web site that asks me for far too much personal information, makes me use another stupid password, so they know it is me evey time I go there. I get to keep track of almost two dozen usernames and passwords to get to any site worth going to. Then these sites load my PC with spyware, track how I use their site, or worse all my Internet usage. I get added to another e-mail list, which may not be resold immediately, but will at at some future date, after changing the site "privacy" policy, or after the company is reorganized or comes under new management, or just realized that they can increase revenue by making the list available to others. Most likely it will end up with some third party who will resell it to someone else who will put me on an internet porn SPAM list, choking up my work e-mail address with 50 messages a day. You don't think so, you say? Why do you think I keep this Hotmail address? All this so I get to look at the NYTimes or Washington Post for free? NOT ME. _________________________________________________________________ Scope out the new MSN Plus Internet Software ^[)BM-^W optimizes dial-up to the max! http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=byoa/plus&ST=1 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 5 13:06:05 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 13:05:51 EST Subject: Re: NYT link Bwa ha ha ha ha ha! To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 2/5/2004 9:59:05 AM Eastern Standard Time, millerk@XXXXXX writes: > 1996 Honda VT600CD Shadow VLX Deluxe Cool, (no pun) I for one like that bike > not a beginner, but still scared > stiff of the beltway. Hell, I'm scared of it in my car. Fear is not a bad thing. Unreasonable fear is a bad thing. There is nothing unreasonable about fearing the morons out on the beltway. Loud pipes quell cells. 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 5 13:06:55 2004 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Speeding Moto kills jogger in Tampa Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 12:55:29 -0500 Damn, making us SV Riders look like hooligans. >From: Troutman >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Speeding Moto kills jogger in Tampa >Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 09:37:23 -0500 > >This story is starting to make some waves down in Tampa. > >http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf8&client=google&num=30&newsclusterurl=http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article%3FAID%3D/20040204/NEWS/402040365/1004 _________________________________________________________________ Scope out the new MSN Plus Internet Software ^[)BM-^W optimizes dial-up to the max! http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=byoa/plus&ST=1 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 5 14:00:02 2004 Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 13:58:57 -0500 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: Speeding Moto kills jogger in Tampa At 11:29 AM 2/5/04 -0500, Carl Schelin wrote: >On Thu, 2004-02-05 at 10:57, Mike Bartman wrote: > >> Two lanes of traffic stopped at a red light. Bike approaches, going very >> fast, from the rear, as the light goes green. Rather than brake and wait >> his turn, he lane splits between the two lines of traffic, and accelerates, >> thinking "neat! I'll pass all this slow stuff before it can get going!" >> and he hits the lady in the crosswalk on the far side of the intersection >> after trying, and failing, to avoid the collision due to lack of time >> resulting from excessive speed. > >One of the lines in the article mentioned that she had almost reached >the grassy median. From that line I'd have to say he was on the >shoulder/close to the curb. I thought it said she ended up there, not that she was almost there? Given that the rider ended up almost a block away, enough force to move her across half the street isn't out of the question. It also said that he was riding up the center-line, so if she'd been anywhere other than the middle of the street, he'd have missed her, unless he was losing control already or something. The article was a bit sparse on details like that. I suspect we'll hear more once they finish the investigation. Maybe he clipped a car while lane splitting at high speed and that took him out of control or something. >I'm not so sure about the light though. She seemed sure enough to cross >the street even with traffic so a light had to have been involved but he >was doing 80+ when he hit her. Right. That's why I pictured things the way I did. It was red, so she started across, it went green, so he didn't slow down, but ran between the lines of stopped traffic (they said that part). If that's the idiot thing he did, it's even more likely that he'd have been hit by someone running into the red the other way...no matter how you look at it, it's a stupid thing to do...if that's what happened. >Maybe he was trying to dust her off and >misjudged how close the car was to him/he was to her. Huh? What car? He was on a bike, she was in sneakers. Are we talking about the same accident? What do you mean by "dust her off"? The only contexts I have for that phrase involve either house cleaning or military airlift from an LZ, neither of which apply to this. What are you saying there? >Since she had >headphones on, she wouldn't have heard him coming until maybe the last >second and wouldn't have known to jump out of the way. It wasn't her responsibility to jump out of the way (pedestrians have right of way), though I'm sure she'd have tried if she'd seen or heard him...but at 80+ mph, he'd have covered the distance across the intersection before she could react anyway more than likely. The traffic he lane split past would have blocked most of the sound until he was past it too. >> Another, "not an accident" situation.... > >In any case, with his record and age (he should know better), he should >certainly get more than 100 days :-/ No idea what the law is down there. We'll see. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 5 14:03:50 2004 Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 14:03:38 -0500 To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: NYT link Bwa ha ha ha ha ha! At 01:05 PM 2/5/04 EST, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: >In a message dated 2/5/2004 9:59:05 AM Eastern Standard Time, >millerk@XXXXXX writes: >> not a beginner, but still scared >> stiff of the beltway. Hell, I'm scared of it in my car. > >Fear is not a bad thing. >Unreasonable fear is a bad thing. >There is nothing unreasonable about fearing the morons out on the beltway. Yeah, if you aren't at least a little bit nervous you probably don't have enough experience yet. :^) Nervous is good...it indicates that you need to be extra careful. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 5 15:18:03 2004 Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 15:17:57 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: John Kerry (95% moto content) According to Boston radio host and Boston Herald columnist Howie Carr, presidential front-runner Kerry is, among other things, a former Ducati owner who changed his moto image as part of his presidential bid. "Yet that same year [1993, when he made $135 in charitable donations according to Carr], he was somehow able to scrape together $8,600 for a brand-new, imported Italian motorcycle, a Ducati Paso 907 IE. He kept it for years, until he decided to run for president, at which time he traded it in for a Harley-Davidson like the one he rode onto "The Tonight Show" set a couple of months ago as Jay Leno applauded his fellow Bay Stater." ----- Hmmm, I'm not sure I get Carr's point. What's wrong with spending $8,600 for a bike, esp. a classic Italian sportbike? ;-) If he's trying to prove to me Kerry is a self-centered hedonist, he's going to have to do better than that. Heh. -=P From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 5 15:37:24 2004 Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 15:37:20 -0500 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: John Kerry (95% moto content) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Viffer Pablo reported: >According to Boston radio host and Boston Herald columnist >Howie Carr, presidential front-runner Kerry is, among other >things, a former Ducati owner who changed his moto image as >part of his presidential bid. [Dave] Paul, this is called foreshadowing. John wants to 'move backwards' from a duck to a HD, and take the country with him ;-) > >"Yet that same year [1993, when he made $135 in charitable >donations according to Carr], he was somehow able to scrape >together $8,600 for a brand-new, imported Italian >motorcycle, a Ducati Paso 907 IE. He kept it for years, >until he decided to run for president, at which time he >traded it in for a Harley-Davidson like the one he rode >onto "The Tonight Show" set a couple of months ago as Jay >Leno applauded his fellow Bay Stater." > >----- > >Hmmm, I'm not sure I get Carr's point. What's wrong with >spending $8,600 for a bike, esp. a classic Italian >sportbike? ;-) If he's trying to prove to me Kerry is a >self-centered hedonist, he's going to have to do better than >that. Heh. [Dave] good point. Proof that he's not _all_ bad. Is Kerry the only biker among potential candidates? what would other potential CIC's ride were they to be pro moto? Bush? AMF harley - he likes to spend, spend, spend ! Dean? Triumph speed triple - true to the 'hooligan' image Edwards? Goldwing - the Mr. Niceguy of bikes Clark? BMW1150GS for the rugged image - just like Wes's Advocate picture ;-) Sharpton? Riding would mess up his 'fro Kucinich? Moped. Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 5 15:45:59 2004 Subject: Re: John Kerry (95% moto content) From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 05 Feb 2004 15:42:28 -0500 On Thu, 2004-02-05 at 15:37, Dave Yates wrote: > Viffer Pablo reported: > > > >Hmmm, I'm not sure I get Carr's point. What's wrong with > >spending $8,600 for a bike, esp. a classic Italian > >sportbike? ;-) If he's trying to prove to me Kerry is a > >self-centered hedonist, he's going to have to do better than > >that. Heh. > > [Dave] good point. Proof that he's not _all_ bad. > Is Kerry the only biker among potential candidates? > I'd be _less_ likely to vote for him based on biker choice. Dropping a duc for a Harley just to get votes is poser mentality. 'course he'll get the poser crowd which is fairly large ;-) > what would other potential CIC's ride were they to be pro > moto? > > Bush? AMF harley - he likes to spend, spend, spend ! I didn't think he had a Harley that old. If he has an AMF HD, he's likely into oil reserves because of the constant trickle down. > Dean? Triumph speed triple - true to the 'hooligan' image Errr, likely he has lots of videos of bike events and magazines but no bike just yet. > Edwards? Goldwing - the Mr. Niceguy of bikes > Clark? BMW1150GS for the rugged image - just like Wes's > Advocate picture ;-) > Sharpton? Riding would mess up his 'fro > Kucinich? Moped. > > > Dave Yates > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 5 15:47:08 2004 Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 15:45:28 -0500 From: Skip CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: John Kerry (95% moto content) Dave Yates wrote: > > Viffer Pablo reported: > > >According to Boston radio host and Boston Herald columnist > >Howie Carr, presidential front-runner Kerry is, among other > >things, a former Ducati owner who changed his moto image as > >part of his presidential bid. > > [Dave] Paul, this is called foreshadowing. John wants > to 'move backwards' from a duck to a HD, and take the country > with him ;-) > c'mon... think about it... a Democrat on a Ducati? they'd laugh him right out of the party. he needs a "people's bike" to appeal to the blue collar union guy! From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 5 15:54:35 2004 Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 15:53:39 -0500 To: Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: John Kerry (95% moto content) At 03:37 PM 2/5/04 -0500, Dave Yates wrote: >Viffer Pablo reported: > >>According to Boston radio host and Boston Herald columnist >>Howie Carr, presidential front-runner Kerry is, among other >>things, a former Ducati owner who changed his moto image as >>part of his presidential bid. > >[Dave] Paul, this is called foreshadowing. John wants >to 'move backwards' from a duck to a HD, and take the country >with him ;-) Wow! When do we leave?!? :^) >what would other potential CIC's ride were they to be pro >moto? Well, who's left today? >Bush? AMF harley - he likes to spend, spend, spend ! Nah, Clinton had all the leaks... :^) >Clark? BMW1150GS for the rugged image - just like Wes's Too Yuppie. How about one of those German half-track bikes? Or an old WWII-era Harley with a sidecar. In olive-drab of course. >Sharpton? Riding would mess up his 'fro Have to be a flash custom chopper or he'll lose the city vote. Maybe OCC can do him up a theme bike that combines a religious halo with a power-hungry politico? -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 5 16:44:17 2004 Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 16:44:03 -0500 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Speeding Moto kills jogger in Tampa X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 Charges will most likely be pressed and he'll wind up serving more time than Janklow. Not that I'm saying this is wrong. I believe we need to be held just as accountable for our actions but, I'm sure people will throw this back in our faces that motorcyclists kill people too. I feel sorry for her family. Scooter In a message dated 2/5/2004 9:37:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, mike@XXXXXX writes: > > > This story is starting to make some waves down in Tampa. > > http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf8&client=google&num=30&newsclusterurl=http://www.theledger.com/apps/ > pbcs.dll/article%3FAID%3D/20040204/NEWS/402040365/1004 > > > ___________________________________________ > Mike Troutman > http://www.troutman.org/vfr > 1997 Honda VFR 750 > AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ > NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 5 16:47:03 2004 Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 16:46:50 -0500 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: NYT link Bwa ha ha ha ha ha! X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 In a message dated 2/5/2004 10:07:26 AM Eastern Standard Time, adamme1@XXXXXX writes: > "ADD 3LBS TO YOUR PENIS!" > > Do you think someone is trying to tell me something? ;-) > > -aki That you're a pencil-dick? :-) Sorry, couldn't resist. Scooter (ducking and running) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 5 16:52:01 2004 From: "Jim McGonigle" To: Subject: RE: Speeding Moto kills jogger in Tampa Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 16:51:23 -0500 Like everything, its not the object it's the person. Stupid, irresponsible, ignorant people kill people. Guns don't kill people. Cars don't kill people. Motorcycles don't kill people. Etc... Unfortunately as a society, we don't make people take responsibility for their actions. -----Original Message----- From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX [mailto:ScooterFZR@XXXXXX] Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 4:44 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Speeding Moto kills jogger in Tampa Charges will most likely be pressed and he'll wind up serving more time than Janklow. Not that I'm saying this is wrong. I believe we need to be held just as accountable for our actions but, I'm sure people will throw this back in our faces that motorcyclists kill people too. I feel sorry for her family. Scooter In a message dated 2/5/2004 9:37:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, mike@XXXXXX writes: > > > This story is starting to make some waves down in Tampa. > > http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf8&client=google&n > um=30&newsclusterurl=http://www.theledger.com/apps/ > pbcs.dll/article%3FAID%3D/20040204/NEWS/402040365/1004 > > > ___________________________________________ > Mike Troutman > http://www.troutman.org/vfr > 1997 Honda VFR 750 > AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ > NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 5 17:16:45 2004 Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 14:16:36 -0800 (PST) From: Todd Withrow Subject: Re: Speeding Moto kills jogger in Tampa To: Mike Bartman , Troutman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: >> One thing is pretty sure, they won't come down > against jogging... > > Show me a jogger that runs fast enough to hit a motorcyclist and knock him 150yds, while mangling a chain link fence 300yds away. If joggers acted as stupid, and were as dangerous as many motorcyclist, then they would be regulated as well. Many try to prove to the world that motorcyclist should be more heavily regulated than we already are. I think he never saw her. Obviously his vision was obstructed by riding with his head up his ass. ===== AIM: Inf DS http://www.geocities.com/mtwithrow ----------------------------------------------------------- Used to be that we "worldproofed" our children. Now society wants to childproof the world. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 5 17:51:28 2004 Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 17:51:07 -0500 Subject: Re: Speeding Moto kills jogger in Tampa Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Randy Moran The bike is a TL1000. You SV riders are still safe. RPM On Thursday, February 5, 2004, at 12:55 PM, rich hall wrote: > Damn, making us SV Riders look like hooligans. > >> From: Troutman >> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >> Subject: Speeding Moto kills jogger in Tampa >> Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 09:37:23 -0500 >> >> This story is starting to make some waves down in Tampa. >> >> http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF- >> 8&oe=utf8&client=google&num=30&newsclusterurl=http:// >> www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article%3FAID%3D/20040204/NEWS/ >> 402040365/1004 > > _________________________________________________________________ > Scope out the new MSN Plus Internet Software ^[)BM-^W optimizes dial-up to > the max! http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=byoa/plus&ST=1 > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 5 18:08:56 2004 Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 15:08:49 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Maier moto case... To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX As long as we're into legal cases, here's an interesting one: -- Larry =============================== Driver must pay less for accident involving Maier February 5, 2004 MUNICH, Germany (AP) -- The man convicted of negligent driving in the traffic accident that nearly cost Olympic skiing champion Hermann Maier his right leg had his fine reduced by a Munich court Thursday. The 75-year-old man, whose name was not released in keeping with German court practice, was ordered to pay $945, down from the original fine of $3,456. His one-month driving ban was also lifted. The man had appealed the original fine. The court ruled the man did not make an illegal left turn, but that he did not pay enough attention to the traffic behind him. It also ruled that Maier was passing on his motorcycle without a clear line of vision. The accident occurred in August 2001, 2001, when Maier was overtaking a column of in the town of Radstadt, near his home town of Flachau. Maier slammed into the car, which had just begun making a left turn when the accident occurred in Radstadt in August 2001. The crash nearly cost Maier his right leg, and he spent months recovering. The two-time Olympic champion returned to competition last season. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 5 18:15:31 2004 Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 15:15:23 -0800 (PST) From: matthew patton Subject: Re: Speeding Moto kills jogger in Tampa To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Without the full story or a background on FL law I won't say too much. IF (and it's a big if) he was operating in a reckless manner like Jenklow was I hope the guy is brought up on vehicular manslaughter charges or even homicide. But if he does get brought up, then frankly I want to put SD on the spot for their coddling of a politico who was just as guilty of deliberately and criminally putting others lives at risk. Accident my ass! But we have to bear in mind also what the jogger was up to. Being a runner and avid bicyclist for many years myself, it was common for my peers to just cross the street against the red because they didn't want to stop. Disregarding traffic lights is sport in most cities with DC being but one handy example. If the bike had a green light and struck the runner in the middle of the road (which seems likely) then I would have to guess the runner attempted to cross the street on a full red on the notion that she could do so and get away with it since the cars were either just starting up or she disn't SEE (hint: MSF keyword) the oncoming threat. She didn't account for a flaming fool doing 2x the speed limit and she and her family paid the tragic cost of 30sec worth of impatience. Actually this notion that the rider was doing 80mph is IMO quite suspect. Bystander estimation of speed has been demonstrated to be wildly inaccurate. Not to mention there is the discrepency between reports of 300 FT vs YARDS with most of the articles citing feet which seems the most logical. If the account is correct so far it is not at all inconceivable that the rider was in the runner's blind spot (hiding behind the column of cars in the near lane) or equally possible given the sunrise time of 7am this time of year that at 6:15 it was pretty damn dark. A single headlight as we all know is hard to guage distance so it's not surprising the runner would have thought she could go for it. And lost. I hope for his sake the rider wasn't breaking the law but I wouldn't be surprised if he was - the scent of water must make people think they are superman or something...(Chicago Lake Shore Drive, GW Parkway, and now this) And while I'm very sorry somebody died in the encounter and if culpability can truely and properly be attributed that person needs to get hit hard. A better long-term benefit would be if we got serious about addressing the pathetic licensing scheme we have tolerated in this country for way too long. From mandatory if not (semi-)permanent license revokation of all intoxicated operators, stiff fines, graduated licensing, real driving tests for once, stiff tarrifs on high-powered vehicles (incl truck/car/bike) should be looked at and adopted. On the other hand, in the interests of liberty and keeping the gov'ts heavy hand out where it's not strictly needed are there enough incidents to justify intervention (aside from drunk-driving carnage which imo IS a clear and present danger)? What is the inflection point where the social and economic cost of regulation and removal of liberties can balance the number of lives "saved"? There are some that would say "even one life saved is worth it." To them I say get a bloody grip. In the immortal words of ol Franklin: "Those that would trade liberty for security deserve neither (or get either)." From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 5 19:46:32 2004 Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 19:45:42 -0500 From: Kendall Clark To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: dc-cycles digest for 02/05/04 Reply-To: kendall@XXXXXX Two dcc'ers opined, moronically, thus: > Sharpton? Riding would mess up his 'fro > Have to be a flash custom chopper or he'll lose the city vote. Maybe OCC > can do him up a theme bike that combines a religious halo with a > power-hungry politico? Wow, is this the dc-cycles list or tryouts for the next Imperial Grand Wizard slot at the local klavern? First, if you're gonna slander someone you really know nothing about, yo have to get at least *basic* facts right. Sharpton doesn't have a "'fro". In fact, he sometimes gets teased by black folks for having artificial hair, but he wears his hair that way as a kind of homage to James Brown (plus, I suspect Rev. Sharpton *likes* his hair style). He's toned it down in the past few years, such that his hair is hardly a big deal any more. Second, isn't it much more honest -- you right wingers like honesty, right? -- to just say what you mean directly? "City vote" is code for African Americans. So just say that. Third, as anyone with a bit of cultural sense knows, if there is a preferred style of bike among urban African Americans (and I'm not sure there is), it's *clearly* the most rad Japanese liter bike, like a Hayabusa or a Ninja. Last, if "religious halo" and "power hungry politico" were intended to be as derogatory as they sound, gee, check yr facts! The suggestion that Sharpton's religious faith is anything but sincere (he's a been a preacher since he was a very small boy) or that his political activism is merely a grab for power (would you go to jail for 40 days in support of yr principles?) are so much tacky grousing, at best. I for one would be very happy if this list stayed relatively apolitical; there are lots of political issues surrounding moto ownership -- couldn't we stick to them and leave the racism out? Kendall Clark '04 Speed Triple, Special Edition (and proud Sharpton supporter!) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 5 19:49:35 2004 From: "lisagoddard" To: "'DC Cycles'" Subject: Subject: Re: Speeding Moto kills jogger in Tampa Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 19:54:07 -0500 Just jumping in to play devil's advocate here. I run about 20 miles per week and plenty of those miles have been run in the Bethesda/Chevy Chase area, somewhat urban streets with plenty of traffic. A few things I have noticed. Not all joggers pay any mind to traffic lights, crosswalks or even the fact that cars are oncoming. Not to mention the fact that many of the joggers I see doing this are often wearing stereo earphones which couldn't help his or her hearing as they are crossing a street. I cringe every time I see a jogger determined to keep his or her pace merrily bound across the street despite not having the light and there being plenty of cross traffic. I cringe even harder when I see rollerbladers do the same thing. I have seen this during the day and at night. Many of the joggers and rollerbladers are usually heading to or from the Capitol Crescent trail, a great path with no cars. But, the joggers/rollerbladers often seem to have forgotten that they are not on the trail at that particular moment, that they are on a street with cars and trucks. I have to wonder if she was one of those joggers who pay no mind to the traffic on the street and worry more about maintaining a good pace. The article mentioned she was heading out for a 9 mile run. She could have very well been paying all of her attention to her run, not her surroundings. I also have a few years of experience commuting in and out of Bethesda on my motorcycle. There were a few lights on my daily commute where just about every morning some pedestrian would cross right in front of me just after the light turned green in my favor. This was one of those lights where you have exactly two nanoseconds to move through the intersection before it turns yellow. The pedestrians seemed to pay less mind to me alone on the motorcycle than if I were in one lane with a cage sitting in the lane next to me. I got in the habit of revving my engine just as the yellow light appeared for the other street at the intersection, it helped a little but plenty of pedestrians would usually just continue on their path, regardless of the walk or don't walk sign. In other words it seemed that pedestrians just didn't take a motorcycle as seriously as they would a car. I can't help but to wonder if she (the jogger in Tampa) just thought to herself "oh, it's just a little motorcycle, not a 3,000 pound car, I'll just jog quickly across the street right in front of it, he won't mind". Just my $.02 Lisa Goddard '95 VFR '97 GSXR 600 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 5 20:22:01 2004 Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 19:22:00 -0600 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Sean Jordan Subject: Re: Speeding Moto kills jogger in Tampa Interesting...the first article says the motorcycle traveled 300 yards...the other articles state 300 feet. I wonder which number is right? - Sean Jordan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 5 21:51:03 2004 Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 21:50:01 -0500 To: kendall@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: dc-cycles digest for 02/05/04 At 07:45 PM 2/5/04 -0500, Kendall Clark wrote, after leaping to conclusions: >Two dcc'ers opined, moronically, thus: >> Have to be a flash custom chopper or he'll lose the city vote. Maybe OCC >> can do him up a theme bike that combines a religious halo with a >> power-hungry politico? >Second, isn't it much more honest -- you right wingers like honesty, >right? -- to just say what you mean directly? "City vote" is code for >African Americans. So just say that. First, who you callin' a "right winger"??? Second, if I'd meant "African Americans", I'd have said that. I didn't want to include those that don't live downtown, or exclude those who do who aren't black. Choppers aren't limited to black folks (not even a little bit) anyway. If you ask me, choppers are best used for bar hopping or other short rides...i.e. city travel. Yes, you can ride them long distance, but they aren't very good at that. Ditto for rough or winding roads. Billy Lane nearly bought the farm on one of the Biker Buildoff shows, when the hardtail chopper he was riding up the interstate hit a smallish pothole and it almost threw him over the bars. Jessie James rode his to Sturgis on a Motorcycle Maniacs show, and he looked like hell when he got there, and even commented on camera about it being more of a ride than he'd been expecting. Since I've never ridden a chopper, that's about all I have to go on, aside from some comments in various net places, but that's what led to the comment I made. Sorry if I hit a nerve and made your knee jump, but you were assuming more than was there. >Third, as anyone with a bit of cultural sense knows, if there is a >preferred style of bike among urban African Americans (and I'm not >sure there is), it's *clearly* the most rad Japanese liter bike, like >a Hayabusa or a Ninja. I don't think there is, because movies like Biker Boyz would give that impression, but my GF's neighbor's BF (who is black, but perhaps slightly more suburban these days, just so we're clear on that point) was sitting on a Kawasaki sport bike at the D.C. bike show a couple of weeks back when we ran into them. I asked how many he was going to buy, as a humorous hello, and he just about jumped off of it, exclaiming that he didn't want import crap, he wanted something American...he was just seeing how uncomfortable it was. He's looking at Harleys...though he agreed it might be worth a look at the Victory booth too. Probably a Road King though, based on what he said they wanted a bike for (weekend trips). There's a very pleasant black guy in the local HOGs with a Road King too, though there are others with other sorts of bikes, so I don't think Road Kings are it either. >I for one would be very happy if this list stayed relatively >apolitical; there are lots of political issues surrounding moto >ownership -- couldn't we stick to them and leave the racism out? *I* didn't bring any in... -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 5 21:54:29 2004 Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 21:54:30 -0500 To: Sean Jordan , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Speeding Moto kills jogger in Tampa At 07:22 PM 2/5/04 -0600, Sean Jordan wrote: >Interesting...the first article says the motorcycle traveled 300 >yards...the other articles state 300 feet. > >I wonder which number is right? Could be either, given that one article said the rider landed at the next intersection (check the street names carefully...). Depends how closely spaced the streets are there. I think we need to wait for the police report to get all the facts straight. Reporters seem to be pretty sloppy these days a lot more often than they should be. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 5 21:58:24 2004 Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 21:58:41 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: dc-cycles digest for 02/05/04 At 09:50 PM 2/5/2004, Mike Bartman wrote: >I don't think there is, because movies like Biker Boyz would give that >impression, but my GF's neighbor's BF (who is black, but perhaps slightly >more suburban these days, just so we're clear on that point) was sitting on >a Kawasaki sport bike at the D.C. bike show a couple of weeks back when we >ran into them. I asked how many he was going to buy, as a humorous hello, >and he just about jumped off of it, exclaiming that he didn't want import >crap, he wanted something American...he was just seeing how uncomfortable >it was. He's looking at Harleys...though he agreed it might be worth a >look at the Victory booth too. Probably a Road King though, based on what >he said they wanted a bike for (weekend trips). There's a very pleasant >black guy in the local HOGs with a Road King too, though there are others >with other sorts of bikes, so I don't think Road Kings are it either. Why would there be any one type of bike specific to a race? Blacks are just like whites - a wide spectrum of preferences. I have black friends that ride sportbikes, and others with (ridiculously) every known piece of Harley logo merchandise - including their bike of course. But as you Harley guys know, first you buy all of the gear with the emblems, then save up for the actual bike ;-) As for Al Sharpton, his political views have come closer to mainstream in the last few years, but he is still a nut. _____________________________________ Mike Troutman mike@XXXXXX http://www.troutman.org/vfr '97 Honda VFR 750 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 5 22:59:29 2004 Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 22:59:24 -0500 To: Troutman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: dc-cycles digest for 02/05/04 At 09:58 PM 2/5/04 -0500, Troutman wrote: >At 09:50 PM 2/5/2004, Mike Bartman wrote: >>I don't think there is, because movies like Biker Boyz would give that >Why would there be any one type of bike specific to a race? Can't think of any reason. >that ride sportbikes, and others with (ridiculously) every known piece of >Harley logo merchandise - including their bike of course. But as you >Harley guys know, first you buy all of the gear with the emblems, then save >up for the actual bike ;-) Really? I did it backwards? Aw, shit... I probably should have done it that way and gotten H-D gear back when I was riding Hondas and Yamahas...it's good quality and it actually fits me. Most of the stuff I found at the Honda and Yamaha places was just a little on the small side, but getting the biggest stuff they had available worked well enough I guess. With H-D gear, they actually have stuff that's too big for me...and given how big I am, that's scary! Or, rather, the guy it fits would be! :^) >As for Al Sharpton, his political views have come closer to mainstream in >the last few years, but he is still a nut. That seems to be a pre-requisite for running for President lately...I guess no sane person would want to go through what it takes given the way we've let the process get. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 6 08:13:47 2004 From: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" To: "'lisagoddard'" , "'DC Cycles'" Subject: RE: Subject: Re: Speeding Moto kills jogger in Tampa Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 08:13:39 -0500 Amen. I've seen that a lot of times too. Also I've seen a lot of bicycles that try and swerve into my lane. They just seem to assume I just don't mind. It isn't like they can't hear me coming, my bike is rather loud. -----Original Message----- From: lisagoddard [mailto:lisagoddard@XXXXXX] Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 7:54 PM To: 'DC Cycles' Subject: Subject: Re: Speeding Moto kills jogger in Tampa Just jumping in to play devil's advocate here. I run about 20 miles per week and plenty of those miles have been run in the Bethesda/Chevy Chase area, somewhat urban streets with plenty of traffic. A few things I have noticed. Not all joggers pay any mind to traffic lights, crosswalks or even the fact that cars are oncoming. Not to mention the fact that many of the joggers I see doing this are often wearing stereo earphones which couldn't help his or her hearing as they are crossing a street. I cringe every time I see a jogger determined to keep his or her pace merrily bound across the street despite not having the light and there being plenty of cross traffic. I cringe even harder when I see rollerbladers do the same thing. I have seen this during the day and at night. Many of the joggers and rollerbladers are usually heading to or from the Capitol Crescent trail, a great path with no cars. But, the joggers/rollerbladers often seem to have forgotten that they are not on the trail at that particular moment, that they are on a street with cars and trucks. I have to wonder if she was one of those joggers who pay no mind to the traffic on the street and worry more about maintaining a good pace. The article mentioned she was heading out for a 9 mile run. She could have very well been paying all of her attention to her run, not her surroundings. I also have a few years of experience commuting in and out of Bethesda on my motorcycle. There were a few lights on my daily commute where just about every morning some pedestrian would cross right in front of me just after the light turned green in my favor. This was one of those lights where you have exactly two nanoseconds to move through the intersection before it turns yellow. The pedestrians seemed to pay less mind to me alone on the motorcycle than if I were in one lane with a cage sitting in the lane next to me. I got in the habit of revving my engine just as the yellow light appeared for the other street at the intersection, it helped a little but plenty of pedestrians would usually just continue on their path, regardless of the walk or don't walk sign. In other words it seemed that pedestrians just didn't take a motorcycle as seriously as they would a car. I can't help but to wonder if she (the jogger in Tampa) just thought to herself "oh, it's just a little motorcycle, not a 3,000 pound car, I'll just jog quickly across the street right in front of it, he won't mind". Just my $.02 Lisa Goddard '95 VFR '97 GSXR 600 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 6 08:34:12 2004 Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 08:34:08 -0500 From: Dave Yates Subject: RE: Subject: Re: Speeding Moto kills jogger in Tampa To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > >Amen. I've seen that a lot of times too. Also I've seen a >lot of bicycles that try and swerve into my lane. They just >seem to assume I just don't mind. [Dave] When I worked on Wisconsin ave. daily I saw people cross against the light traffic conditions notwithstanding, sometimes while yakking on a cell. Once, I saw one of these yakkers about to step on to the 35 mph street, and yelled stop! at the top of my lungs. The woman gave me "the look" (usually reserved for husbands), resumed her conversation, and her stride... to be rudely awakened by a speeding car as she stepped off. She was startled, blurted out some profanities at the driver who had the green light and had it all along, but never dropped that cell... It's not that these types of people don't 'mind', they don't CARE. Not saying the jogger in this case wasn't paying attention, or was even remotely at fault. Nor do I mean to pass judgment on the biker. I will say that the thread title is like a NYT headline - sensationalized to draw attention... It worked, or I wouldn't have spent the last 4 1/2 minutes typing this. I would think that pre conviction, a more accurate portrayal would be "jogger dies in collision with motorcyclist"... > >Just jumping in to play devil's advocate here. > Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 6 10:18:06 2004 From: "Rob Sharp" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: dc-cycles digest for 02/05/04 Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 10:19:39 -0500 Bike Content ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- I knew a guy in my complex who hada a long history of racing Aprilla RS250's and have moved on to a Honda Goldwing. Bikers seem to have one common thread, they all like riding two wheeled vehicles. Right now I ride a sports bike but I have always though about getting a cruiser. Carl is a perfect example. He has a Harley, a Suzuki GSXR and is building his own chopper. Non Bike Content ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Oh and Kendall your proving to be more of a racist than anyone here. Black people are just damn people like everyone on this list. And until people stop making color an issue it's never gonna change. Next time you wanna defend your candidate leave their race outta it. Regards Rob On Thu, 05 Feb 2004 21:58:41 -0500, Troutman wrote > At 09:50 PM 2/5/2004, Mike Bartman wrote: > >I don't think there is, because movies like Biker Boyz would give that > >impression, but my GF's neighbor's BF (who is black, but perhaps slightly > >more suburban these days, just so we're clear on that point) was sitting on > >a Kawasaki sport bike at the D.C. bike show a couple of weeks back when we > >ran into them. I asked how many he was going to buy, as a humorous hello, > >and he just about jumped off of it, exclaiming that he didn't want import > >crap, he wanted something American...he was just seeing how uncomfortable > >it was. He's looking at Harleys...though he agreed it might be worth a > >look at the Victory booth too. Probably a Road King though, based on what > >he said they wanted a bike for (weekend trips). There's a very pleasant > >black guy in the local HOGs with a Road King too, though there are others > >with other sorts of bikes, so I don't think Road Kings are it either. > > Why would there be any one type of bike specific to a race? Blacks > are just like whites - a wide spectrum of preferences. I have black > friends that ride sportbikes, and others with (ridiculously) every > known piece of Harley logo merchandise - including their bike of > course. But as you Harley guys know, first you buy all of the gear > with the emblems, then save up for the actual bike ;-) > > As for Al Sharpton, his political views have come closer to > mainstream in the last few years, but he is still a nut. > > _____________________________________ > Mike Troutman > mike@XXXXXX > http://www.troutman.org/vfr > > '97 Honda VFR 750 -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 6 10:28:45 2004 Subject: Re: dc-cycles digest for 02/05/04 From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 06 Feb 2004 10:25:13 -0500 On Fri, 2004-02-06 at 10:19, Rob Sharp wrote: > Bike Content > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > I knew a guy in my complex who hada a long history of racing Aprilla RS250's > and have moved on to a Honda Goldwing. Bikers seem to have one common thread, > they all like riding two wheeled vehicles. Right now I ride a sports bike but > I have always though about getting a cruiser. Carl is a perfect example. He > has a Harley, a Suzuki GSXR and is building his own chopper. > Ooooh, an example. I've never been an example, especially a perfect one. Thanks ;-) > Non Bike Content [self-censoring enabled] Man, did anyone ride their bikes home last night around 7pm? I had to stay past 6 to put a blade into one of our 5500's so I rode in yesterday. I got some ice coming down in Crystal City and then when I got down to the parkway exit to HOV (95S) it started picking up again. On Dale Blvd it was starting to get icier. Darbydale was even better. My turn to Eastlawn was dicy and the right onto Evansdale had me sliding the backend of the Harley just a touch. A slow ride up the block and my garage door automatically opening (Rita inside with the garage remote listening for me :-) A bit of a slide up the driveway and I was home. Quite a bit of ice on the seat in front of me (got pictures :-) Definately an interesting ride home. If I could just keep the children from tailgating me I'd have been a _little_ happier. Evil Overlord Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 6 11:00:39 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 11:00:28 EST Subject: Re: Speeding Moto kills jogger in Tampa To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 2/5/2004 6:15:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, pattonme@XXXXXX writes: > A better long-term benefit would be if we got serious > about addressing the pathetic licensing scheme we have tolerated in > this country for way too long. AAAmen!!! John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 6 11:07:27 2004 Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 11:24:15 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Speeding Moto kills jogger in Tampa On Fri, 6 Feb 2004 PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > In a message dated 2/5/2004 6:15:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, > pattonme@XXXXXX writes: > > > A better long-term benefit would be if we got serious > > about addressing the pathetic licensing scheme we have tolerated in > > this country for way too long. > > AAAmen!!! I drove my wife to work this morning and there were several intersections where the signals were completely out and no police officers were directing traffic. In EVERY case, at least 1 person cruised through the intersection at full speed, without even looking. At another intersection with flashing yellow/red, I saw another car move through like they had a green light. People are clueless when they're behind the wheel. I'm considering selling my wife's car because I'm worried about *other* drivers in giant SUVs running into her little 2 seat convertible. :-( -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 6 11:13:30 2004 From: "Sean Steele" To: "DC Cycles" Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 08:12:41 -0500 Subject: Because it's never a bad idea to find moto friends to crash with in far-off cities X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information I'm in with the hush-hush, Google-spawned orkut "Friendster"-type thang. If anyone wants an invite, respond to me offline. -Sean '93 "Wet and Miserable, but Biding Its Time" Seca II From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 6 11:26:43 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 11:26:35 EST Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Speeding Moto kills jogger in Tampa To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 2/6/2004 8:34:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, Dave@XXXXXX writes: > I saw people > cross against the light traffic conditions notwithstanding, We need to remove the pedestrians "always" have the right of way nonsense. This is one of those well intentioned laws that backfires. "Make it the drivers responsibility and they will be more inclined to watch out for pedestrians." True enough, but what really happens is pedestrians wind up feeling empowered and even invulnerable so they step out in front of cars with abandon. In the end it winds up killing far more of them then it saves. Remove that "protection," post signs at intersections to that effect, pointing out that _pedestrians_ will be liable to the vehicle operator for any accident that occurs while they are in violation and this bull&*$ will slow down a little. Just a little. Loud pipes quell cells. 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 6 11:39:54 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 11:39:42 EST Subject: Dream Garage To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 2/6/2004 10:18:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, rob@XXXXXX writes: > Carl is a perfect example. He > has a Harley, a Suzuki GSXR and is building his own chopper. My own "dream garage" would rival Jay Leno. A few sport bikes (prolly starting with a 250 Ninja,) a couple of customs (trike or hack,) dirt, dirt/street, competition, and a few odd restorations (Suzuki RE5 for instance) There are time I envy "weekend" riders who can buy anything they want and wait for conditions to suit the bike. The need for a "turnkey, do everything" bike (no cage) and lack of funds limits my own selection to just a few of the hundreds available. There is an idea, anyone want to start a "dream garage" thread? What would you have in in your own garage if money was no object? I bet the line between cruiser riders, sport riders, dirt etc. would blur quite a bit. Loud pipes quell cells. 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 6 11:40:05 2004 Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Speeding Moto kills jogger in Tampa From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 06 Feb 2004 11:36:35 -0500 On Fri, 2004-02-06 at 11:26, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > In a message dated 2/6/2004 8:34:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, > Dave@XXXXXX writes: > > > I saw people > > cross against the light traffic conditions notwithstanding, > > > We need to remove the pedestrians "always" have the right of way nonsense. When I was stationed in Germany back in '79, our orientation said that in Germany it's a flat fee if someone kills you in an auto accident. Of course that means that if they _don't_ kill you, you can sue them for everything they're worth. Obviously that meant it was in the driver's best interest to actually kill you than try and stop. The first time I stepped into the street and heard the motors reving we hot-footed it across the street in record time :-) Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 6 11:42:13 2004 Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 11:42:09 -0500 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Speeding Moto kills jogger in Tampa To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Dave@XXXXXX writes: > >> I saw people cross against the light traffic conditions >> notwithstanding... > > >We need to remove the pedestrians "always" have the right of >way nonsense. >This is one of those well intentioned laws that >backfires. "Make it the drivers responsibility and they will >be more inclined to watch out for pedestrians." >True enough, but what really happens is pedestrians wind up >feeling empowered and even invulnerable so they step out in >front of cars with abandon. [Dave] There was an article in the (I think Nova Journal) last year about a community meeting on what to do about Rt 1 traffic (besides the annual write cars a bunch of bull shit tickets). The Pedestrian activist - her name escapes me - was quoted asserting that peds have the right of way all along rt1... Not so say the Mt. Vernon FFX traffic commander of the ffx traffic goon squad! The article indicated something to the effect of peds losing the right of way where the posted limit was over 35mph (I haven't checked on leg1.state.va.us, so verify this before you go pedestrian mowing) ... Shortly thereafter, we had warning signs posted at rt1 / Kings hwy & rt1 / Sherwood Hall advising of the 500 dollar fine for not yielding to pedestrians... Doing absolutely nothing for the pedestrians crossing outside the walks everywhere else. And they're futher emboldened because they know that police don't care about lowly pedestrian tickets - not enough money in it. I've personally witnessed pedestrians jump out in front of UnFairTax cops twice on 1 making them stop - 1 time stop really hard - they just roll on their way to Krispy Kreme... BUT! If you're 5 over the limit, or drive around one and are busted, you can bet you'll be interrogated by at least the occupants of 3 county cruisers... Nitwits. Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 6 11:45:17 2004 From: Michael Lynch To: "'Carl Schelin'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: dc-cycles digest for 02/05/04 Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 11:46:47 -0500 Ya, didn't get out of the city until 8PM last night, which I really hadn't planned on since I had the Big Red Pig. By the time I got to my street, I had to let it idle along in 2nd gear and stay on top of the crown. When I pulled in my driveway I touched the front brake (consciously knowing I was touching the front brake) and it washed about 3" to the left. Let off the brake, (thinking to myself that there was so little traction to start with that it certainly won't recover) and got ready for a tumble, but it came back. It's fun to learn. When I took the XR to work this morning my street was FUN! :-) Mike - now if I could get this dang waterproof gear thing straightened out 98 XR400 96 VFR 76 CB400F > -----Original Message----- > From: Carl Schelin [SMTP:cschelin@XXXXXX] > > Man, did anyone ride their bikes home last night around 7pm? I had to > stay past 6 to put a blade into one of our 5500's so I rode in > yesterday. > > I got some ice coming down in Crystal City and then when I got down to > the parkway exit to HOV (95S) it started picking up again. > > Evil Overlord Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 6 11:56:20 2004 Subject: RE: dc-cycles digest for 02/05/04 Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 11:56:06 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Michael Lynch" , "Carl Schelin" , Traffic home last night was okay, but everyone was going slow to admire the freezing rain on windshields. No traction problems, but this morning the streets looked far too slick, so I wimped out and worked from home. Now to remember to close all the vents in my gear this time, for the wet ride into work... Robert -----Original Message----- From: Michael Lynch [mailto:MLynch@XXXXXX] Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 11:47 AM To: 'Carl Schelin'; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: dc-cycles digest for 02/05/04 Ya, didn't get out of the city until 8PM last night, which I really hadn't planned on since I had the Big Red Pig. By the time I got to my street, I had to let it idle along in 2nd gear and stay on top of the crown. When I pulled in my driveway I touched the front brake (consciously knowing I was touching the front brake) and it washed about 3" to the left. Let off the brake, (thinking to myself that there was so little traction to start with that it certainly won't recover) and got ready for a tumble, but it came back. It's fun to learn. When I took the XR to work this morning my street was FUN! :-) Mike - now if I could get this dang waterproof gear thing straightened out 98 XR400 96 VFR 76 CB400F From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 6 11:58:27 2004 Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 08:58:15 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Speeding Moto kills jogger in Tampa To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > In a message dated 2/6/2004 8:34:29 AM Eastern Standard > Time, > Dave@XXXXXX writes: > > > I saw people > > cross against the light traffic conditions > notwithstanding, > > > We need to remove the pedestrians "always" have the right > of way nonsense. any belief on the part of pedestrians or drivers that pedestrians always have the right of way is incorrect. where does this nonsense exist? > This is one of those well intentioned laws that > backfires. "Make it the drivers > responsibility and they will be more inclined to watch > out for pedestrians." > True enough, but what really happens is pedestrians wind > up feeling empowered > and even invulnerable so they step out in front of cars > with abandon. In the > end it winds up killing far more of them then it saves. > Remove that "protection," post signs at intersections to > that effect, > pointing out that _pedestrians_ will be liable to the > vehicle operator for any > accident that occurs while they are in violation and this > bull&*$ will slow down a > little. > Just a little. let's just wait and see what happens in the florida case.... all sorts of shit is likely to come out from eyewitnesses. -- tg __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 6 11:58:39 2004 Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 11:58:34 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: Michael Lynch , "'Carl Schelin'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Last night, was RE: dc-cycles digest for 02/05/04 -----Original Message----- From: Michael Lynch Ya, didn't get out of the city until 8PM last night, which I really hadn't planned on since I had the Big Red Pig. By the time I got to my street, I had to let it idle along in 2nd gear and stay on top of the crown. When I pulled in my driveway I touched the front brake (consciously knowing I was touching the front brake) and it washed about 3" to the left. Let off the brake, (thinking to myself that there was so little traction to start with that it certainly won't recover) and got ready for a tumble, but it came back. It's fun to learn. When I took the XR to work this morning my street was FUN! :-) Mike - now if I could get this dang waterproof gear thing straightened out 98 XR400 96 VFR 76 CB400F ----------- I got home about 8:15 last night, just as it was getting "interesting" traction-wise. Sleet was plink-plink-plinking on the helmet and face shield all the way home. I had the little VF, which carries its weight a little better in less than perfect conditions than Mike's and my Big Red Pigs (tm). This morning the streets in the District were largely OK, along the sidewalks were treacherous. If you're looking for waterproof gear, check out Motoport. My Ultra II suit with Gore-Tex linings, Gerbings gloves, Sidi V2 Te-Por boots have handled all the nastiness of late very well in the warm'n'dry department. I struggled through several iterations of gear (Joe Rocket, Aerostich) before solving the water-proof problem to my satisfaction. Paul in DC 95 VFR - 86 VF500F + KLR650 for nights like last night?? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 6 12:01:41 2004 Subject: Re: Last night, was RE: dc-cycles digest for 02/05/04 From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 06 Feb 2004 11:58:01 -0500 On Fri, 2004-02-06 at 11:58, Paul Wilson wrote: > If you're looking for waterproof gear, check out Motoport. My Ultra II suit with Gore-Tex linings, Gerbings gloves, Sidi V2 Te-Por boots have handled all the nastiness of late very well in the warm'n'dry department. I struggled through several iterations of gear (Joe Rocket, Aerostich) before solving the water-proof problem to my satisfaction. > I'm using the Joe Rocket gear and was nice and dry when I got home. My socks were wet but I'm not using JR boots :-) > Paul in DC > 95 VFR - 86 VF500F + KLR650 for nights like last night?? Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 6 12:04:54 2004 Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 12:04:48 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: Sean Steele , DC Cycles Subject: Re: Because it's never a bad idea to find moto friends to crash with in far-off cities -----Original Message----- From: Sean Steele I'm in with the hush-hush, Google-spawned orkut "Friendster"-type thang. If anyone wants an invite, respond to me offline. -Sean '93 "Wet and Miserable, but Biding Its Time" Seca II ----------- OK, is there an English version of this?? ;-) Might be interested. Paul in DC Not too hip with the cyber generation, I'm afraid. Hell, I'm so out of it, I've not even got an E-vite for a Howlin' Howie house party. :) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 6 12:16:22 2004 From: "Sean Steele" To: "Paul Wilson" CC: "DC Cycles" Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 09:15:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Because it's never a bad idea to find moto friends to crash with in far-off cities X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information > OK, is there an English version of this?? ;-) Might be interested. Sorry for that ;-) Friendster.com is a fairly useful and inventive online networking tool, connecting friends of friends to one another (mainly for dating, but also for personal networking, etc.) Google, as many of you know, is the 800 lb. gorilla in the online search industry (and increasingly in other areas). They recently spawned a Friendster-like service, called "orkut" that is in beta (that is, is not yet in full production and is restricted to use by a select number of "beta participants"). I was brought into orkut by friends in San Francisco, close to Google's Silicon Valley home, and I can, in turn, invite my "friends". Let me know if you're interested, DC moto fans. -Sean "Moto-less in San Diego" From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 6 12:26:51 2004 Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 11:26:51 -0600 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Sean Jordan Subject: Re: Speeding Moto kills jogger in Tampa Regarding the 300 ft. vs 300 yds. - I wrote the reporter of the "yards' article, and asked her which measurement was correct. She said that it was supposed to be feet, that it would be corrected, and thanked me for pointing it out. So, it was 300 ft. - Sean Jordan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 6 12:31:44 2004 Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 12:31:30 -0500 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Speeding Moto kills jogger in Tampa X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 In a message dated 2/6/2004 11:58:15 AM Eastern Standard Time, t_gimer@XXXXXX writes: > > > --- PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > > In a message dated 2/6/2004 8:34:29 AM Eastern Standard > > Time, > > Dave@XXXXXX writes: > > > > > I saw people > > > cross against the light traffic conditions > > notwithstanding, > > > > > > We need to remove the pedestrians "always" have the right > > of way nonsense. > > any belief on the part of pedestrians or drivers that > pedestrians always have the right of way is incorrect. > where does this nonsense exist? > -- > tg This was my thinking also. I thought pedestrians only had the right of way at signal regulated intersections while in crosswalks and when they had the Walk light. Four-way stops are a little iffy. You have to pay more attention to who stopped first. But, where there is no signal or signage to regulate traffic, pedestrians do not have the right of way. At least, that's what I was taught. Scooter From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 6 12:33:56 2004 From: "Sean Steele" To: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 09:32:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Speeding Moto kills jogger in Tampa X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information >>any belief on the part of pedestrians or drivers that >>pedestrians always have the right of way is incorrect. >>where does this nonsense exist? In practice, Williamsburg, VA. Cars stop for peds all the time. -Sean From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 6 13:22:16 2004 Subject: Dream Garage and general stuff Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 13:24:13 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: "DC Cycles" Dream Garage 2004 VSTAR black 2004 R1 (burgundy) 2004 R6 Ducati 999...just to see if all the hype is true I would be totally content with the R1 and something for long distance rides. Having only owned the R6 I am really curious what the R1 feels like. The few times I have posted these thoughts to this group, I get met with silence or a dire warning about too much throttle in the breach. With the exception of the level of experience and wisdom which seems to be high in this group, these warnings remind me of when I first informed those close to me that I got my license and they hissed back that motorcycling was terribly dangerous. Comparing 600's to 1000's it seems the 600's always get the nod in handling but if the bike weighs the same ...(r6, r1) I am curious as to how sheer power drastically alters handling. GREAT LINK HERE: http://ymedc.introweb.nl/en/archive/supersport/supersport-03.shtml Hope all on this list are doing well. I am really missing riding my bike but I have no all weather gear and hate the idea of it getting rusty, salt crusted. I know the hard cores are snorting but I want to at least own one nice vehicle that looks good. I took it out Monday, hit a few wet spots and spent a hour getting all the grit, grime and nasty gunk off the bike. I also learned that cycling like most important skills needs to be practiced regularly. I have not commented on the accident because I was not there. I just dislike the idea of the general public buying even more into the idea of crazy motorcyclists on a rampage. At the end of the day, you never know, that is the lesson of 11 September. "Life in every breath". Now if I did not have all this accursed debt, I would be walking out of my office this very minute. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 6 13:48:04 2004 Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 13:47:41 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Speeding Moto kills jogger in Tampa -----Original Message----- From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX In a message dated 2/6/2004 11:58:15 AM Eastern Standard Time, t_gimer@XXXXXX writes: > > > --- PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > > In a message dated 2/6/2004 8:34:29 AM Eastern Standard > > Time, > > Dave@XXXXXX writes: > > > > > I saw people > > > cross against the light traffic conditions > > notwithstanding, > > > > > > We need to remove the pedestrians "always" have the right > > of way nonsense. > > any belief on the part of pedestrians or drivers that > pedestrians always have the right of way is incorrect. > where does this nonsense exist? > -- > tg This was my thinking also. I thought pedestrians only had the right of way at signal regulated intersections while in crosswalks and when they had the Walk light. Four-way stops are a little iffy. You have to pay more attention to who stopped first. But, where there is no signal or signage to regulate traffic, pedestrians do not have the right of way. At least, that's what I was taught. Scooter -------- Not true, legally speaking. In a unsignaled crosswalk the peds have the right-of-way over cross traffic, in both DC and VA. VA does say something about people not crossing in "disregard" for approaching traffic. In many cities *any* intersection counts as a "crosswalk", marked with white lines or not. This is the case in the District of Columbia. See below. Slide your big toe off the curb in those areas dominated by polite drivers (which does not necessarily describe DC or surrounding 'burbs) and people will stop. This was the case in Charlottesville. Here's what the DC Code has to say on the subject: ^[)BM-' 50-2201.28. Right-of-way at crosswalks. (a) When official traffic-control signals are not in place or not in operation, the driver of a vehicle shall yield the right-of-way to a pedestrian crossing the roadway within any marked crosswalk or unmarked crosswalk at an intersection. (b) A pedestrian who has begun crossing on the "WALK" signal shall be given the right-of-way by the driver of any vehicle to continue to the opposite sidewalk or safety island, whichever is nearest. (c) Any person convicted of failure to yield the right-of-way to a pedestrian or of colliding with a pedestrian shall be subject to a fine of not more than $500, or imprisonment for not more than 30 days, or both. Any person convicted of a violation of this section may be sentenced to perform community service as an alternative to, but not in addition to, any term of imprisonment authorized by this section. Virginia: ^[)BM-' 46.2-924. Right-of-way of pedestrians; installation of certain signs; penalty. A. The driver of any vehicle on a highway shall yield the right-of-way to any pedestrian crossing such highway: 1. At any clearly marked crosswalk, whether at mid-block or at the end of any block; 2. At any regular pedestrian crossing included in the prolongation of the lateral boundary lines of the adjacent sidewalk at the end of a block; 3. At any intersection when the driver is approaching on a highway or street where the legal maximum speed does not exceed thirty-five miles per hour. B. Notwithstanding the provisions of subsection A of this section, at intersections or crosswalks where the movement of traffic is being regulated by law-enforcement officers or traffic control devices, the driver shall yield according to the direction of the law-enforcement officer or device. No pedestrian shall enter or cross an intersection in disregard of approaching traffic. The drivers of vehicles entering, crossing, or turning at intersections shall change their course, slow down, or stop if necessary to permit pedestrians to cross such intersections safely and expeditiously. Pedestrians crossing highways at intersections shall at all times have the right-of-way over vehicles making turns into the highways being crossed by the pedestrians. --------------- Don't have to time to do Maryland; the curious can look it up for themselves. :) Paul in DC 95 VFR - 86 VF500F From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 6 13:48:46 2004 Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 13:47:06 -0500 To: Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: Subject: Re: Speeding Moto kills jogger in Tampa At 08:34 AM 2/6/04 -0500, Dave Yates wrote: >> >sometimes while yakking on a cell. Once, I saw one of these >yakkers about to step on to the 35 mph street, and yelled >stop! at the top of my lungs. The woman gave me "the look" >(usually reserved for husbands), resumed her conversation, >and her stride... to be rudely awakened by a speeding car as >she stepped off. She was startled, blurted out some >profanities at the driver who had the green light and had it >all along, but never dropped that cell... > It's not that these types of people don't 'mind', they >don't CARE. Ok, then let's amend the law so that the drivers and riders don't get into trouble for splattering them, and introduce some new products to the market, such as "People-Off", for removing the stains on your vehicle, and "Pedi-Shield", the Lexan front end that deflects organic obstacles to the side, allowing you to proceed with minimal difficulty? If they don't care, why should anyone else? >pass judgment on the biker. I will say that the thread title >is like a NYT headline - sensationalized to draw >attention... It worked, or I wouldn't have spent the last 4 >1/2 minutes typing this. I would think that pre conviction, >a more accurate portrayal would be "jogger dies in collision >with motorcyclist"... As long as news is a marketable product, rather than a public service, you will get the sensationalism. Ok, also as long as that aspect continues to sell. If the customers start getting turned off by anything other than straight reporting, that's what will get produced, but I don't see much chance of that happening on a widespread basis. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 6 14:00:17 2004 From: Richard Westbrook To: "DC-Cycles (E-mail)" Subject: Givi luggage Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 13:58:24 -0500 I want to get Givi top case for my 95 VFR. I will need all the mounting hardware too. Does any one know of a good source for that stuff either online or local. Also, if anyone had any alternative recommendations for a hard case that would be great too. -Rich From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 6 14:03:00 2004 Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 14:02:59 -0500 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: dc-cycles digest for 02/05/04 At 10:25 AM 2/6/04 -0500, Carl Schelin wrote: You are nuts! Glad you made it home though. Good job! >Definately an interesting ride home. If I could just keep the children >from tailgating me I'd have been a _little_ happier. Caltrops? [1] [1] - See the following URL, middle of the right side, for a picture if you never heard of them: http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-weapons/00-weapons-cat-index.htm -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 6 14:09:02 2004 Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 14:08:46 -0500 To: Wayne Edelen , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Speeding Moto kills jogger in Tampa At 11:24 AM 2/6/04 -0500, Wayne Edelen wrote: >I drove my wife to work this morning and there were several intersections >where the signals were completely out and no police officers were >directing traffic. In EVERY case, at least 1 person cruised through the >intersection at full speed, without even looking. At another intersection >with flashing yellow/red, I saw another car move through like they had a >green light. The scary part is that I don't think these people are doing this out of arrogance so much as ignorance. There are way too many untrained drivers on the roads. I spoke to one recently who failed to yield right of way to me when he entered a traffic circle I was already in. His comment? "What are you, a lawyer?" as if it took a law degree to know basic traffic rules...that are supposed to be mastered before a license is issued. [I told him, no I wasn't a lawyer, I was just the guy who was going to kick his ass if I ever saw him doing it again. He shut up his smart-mouth at that. I guess I was pretty pissed at that point, and it was showing.] >People are clueless when they're behind the wheel. I'm considering >selling my wife's car because I'm worried about *other* drivers in giant >SUVs running into her little 2 seat convertible. :-( Why SUVs? What about pickups? Vans? Semis? Anything else bigger? (which is probably anything on 4 wheels... :^) -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 6 14:15:12 2004 Subject: Re: dc-cycles digest for 02/05/04 From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 06 Feb 2004 14:11:42 -0500 On Fri, 2004-02-06 at 14:02, Mike Bartman wrote: > At 10:25 AM 2/6/04 -0500, Carl Schelin wrote: > > > > You are nuts! Glad you made it home though. Good job! > > >Definately an interesting ride home. If I could just keep the children > >from tailgating me I'd have been a _little_ happier. > > Caltrops? [1] > I played D&D from lat '76 until '95 or so. I _know_ what a caltrop is. Do you know what a yawara is? :-) > > [1] - See the following URL, middle of the right side, for a picture if you > never heard of them: > > http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-weapons/00-weapons-cat-index.htm > But thanks for the link. I'll have to poke around. It's amazing how a bunch of the little tidbits I learned in order to run a decent game (D&D or otherwise) have helped in other situations. > > > -- Mike B. > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 6 14:18:04 2004 Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 14:18:06 -0500 To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Dream Garage At 11:39 AM 2/6/04 EST, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: >There is an idea, anyone want to start a "dream garage" thread? >What would you have in in your own garage if money was no object? >I bet the line between cruiser riders, sport riders, dirt etc. would blur >quite a bit. Maybe. I've pretty much got what I want in my garage right now as far as bikes go...though an enduro would be cool for some off-road trail riding on occasion. Or one of the big dual-use BMWs. I'm limited in terms of time to ride, and it would be a shame to have a garage full of bikes I never rode. I'm not into collecting for collecting's sake, the way Jay Leno is (more power to him though!) I may eventually end up with a custom cruiser of some sort, but only if I can build it myself...another time thing at the moment, though I'm also knowledge limited, but working on that. What I'd really like in a garage would be in terms of space, light, power, and tools. My current garage has a fair number of tools (mostly for woodworking, but some are dual use, like the air compressor), but it's crowded out there, has only a couple of 20 amp outlets and the one 300 watt bare bulb in the middle, supplemented by a couple of halogen worklights on stands. Not at all ideal, but it functions for now. My next house is going to have a proper shop...or more than one (wood, metal, paint, vehicular (I can dream can't I?))...in addition to parking garages just for keeping vehicles in out of the weather. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 6 14:21:43 2004 From: "Rob Keiser" To: RichardW@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Givi luggage Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 14:10:34 -0500 Rich, I've got an E460 that I use 80% of the time on my '98 with the tubular topcase only rack, and love it. When I take long trips, I switch that rack with the Wingrack 2 so I can use the two E360's as side cases. Stick to the matte black finish. Arizona Motorsports has been great to deal with. But I have also ordered some through Kiernan when they matched AZM's price. Hope that helps. Rob '98 VFR800 From: Richard Westbrook To: "DC-Cycles (E-mail)" Subject: Givi luggage Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 13:58:24 -0500 I want to get Givi top case for my 95 VFR. I will need all the mounting hardware too. Does any one know of a good source for that stuff either online or local. Also, if anyone had any alternative recommendations for a hard case that would be great too. -Rich _________________________________________________________________ Create your own personal Web page with the info you use most, at My MSN. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200364ave/direct/01/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 6 14:24:04 2004 From: "Gary Foreman" To: Subject: RE: Dream Garage Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 14:25:09 -0500 I have mine. 2.5 Car Garage, nicely finished. Next time 3.5 cars in size. http://gwfweb.com/house/pages/030908.htm Gary From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 6 14:30:18 2004 Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 14:27:12 -0500 To: "Sean Steele" , ScooterFZR@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Speeding Moto kills jogger in Tampa Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 09:32 AM 2/7/04 -0500, Sean Steele wrote: >>>any belief on the part of pedestrians or drivers that >>>pedestrians always have the right of way is incorrect. >>>where does this nonsense exist? > >In practice, Williamsburg, VA. Cars stop for peds all the time. California...at least parts of Los Angeles. If a pedestrian approaches a curb, cars stop and wait for them to cross. Failure to do this often results in tickets, according to native friends who's car I was borrowing. Of course, pedestrians usually only approach curbs at crosswalks...jaywalking is enforced there too apparently. Experience I had was around Hermosa Beach, Escondito, Lawndale, Redondo Beach, Venice, etc.. Conditions may vary elsewhere. It was also part of driver's ed in Virginia Beach in the 70s. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 6 14:39:06 2004 Subject: Re: Dream Garage From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 06 Feb 2004 14:35:36 -0500 On Fri, 2004-02-06 at 14:18, Mike Bartman wrote: > At 11:39 AM 2/6/04 EST, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > > >There is an idea, anyone want to start a "dream garage" thread? > >What would you have in in your own garage if money was no object? > >I bet the line between cruiser riders, sport riders, dirt etc. would blur > >quite a bit. > > What I'd really like in a garage would be in terms of space, light, power, > and tools. I'm with Mike here. I have a bunch of tools for various purposes but many need to be replaced and I need/want additional tools to muck about with. Space is a real big issue though. It's a one car (4 bike) garage and Rita's car is in the driveway ;-} I pegboarded my tools for easy access but there are so many now that a multi-drawer set seems inevitable. > -- Mike B. > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 6 14:46:12 2004 From: Michael Lynch To: "'Carl Schelin'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Dream Garage Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 14:47:46 -0500 Space? Tools? Screw that. :-) I want a RC211V Mike 98 XR400 96 VFR 76 CB400F > -----Original Message----- > From: Carl Schelin [SMTP:cschelin@XXXXXX] > Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 2:36 PM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Dream Garage > > On Fri, 2004-02-06 at 14:18, Mike Bartman wrote: > > At 11:39 AM 2/6/04 EST, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > > > > >There is an idea, anyone want to start a "dream garage" thread? > > >What would you have in in your own garage if money was no object? > > >I bet the line between cruiser riders, sport riders, dirt etc. would > blur > > >quite a bit. > > > > > What I'd really like in a garage would be in terms of space, light, > power, > > and tools. > > I'm with Mike here. I have a bunch of tools for various purposes but > many need to be replaced and I need/want additional tools to muck about > with. Space is a real big issue though. It's a one car (4 bike) garage > and Rita's car is in the driveway ;-} I pegboarded my tools for easy > access but there are so many now that a multi-drawer set seems > inevitable. > > > > -- Mike B. > > > > Carl > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 6 14:46:18 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 14:46:05 EST Subject: Re: Dream Garage and general stuff To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 2/6/2004 1:22:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, julian@XXXXXX writes: > > Comparing 600's to 1000's it seems the 600's always get the nod in > handling but if the bike weighs the same ...(r6, r1) I am curious as to > how sheer power drastically alters handling. _All_ bikes make the same (useable) power at idle, after that it is how far you twist the throttle that makes the difference. Can you get into more trouble on 1000cc? Hell yes. If you use your head can you be as safe (and in unusual circumstances safer) on a 1000? Yep. Can the (usually) less violent power curve make a 1000 easier to ride? Yes. Can a 1000 by virtue of being less stressed in normal riding last longer? Yes. Will the insurance on a 1000 kill you? Likely. Ask yourself: Do you have a cool head or will you always be at full throttle? If the answer is full throttle, perhaps you should be on a Ninja 250 or a Nighthawk 250. But hell you could kill yourself on those also. I really do not like blaming the bike when something goes wrong, that is rarely the case. > I am really missing riding my bike > but I have no all weather gear and hate the idea of it getting rusty, That makes you normal. > I took it out Monday, That makes you abnormal. > spent a hour getting all the grit, grime and nasty gunk > off the bike. Oops, back to normal. > I also learned that cycling like most important skills > needs to be practiced regularly. Damn straight! Do not get me wrong, I think a first bike should be a used, naked, calm easy to ride bike like the 500s often mentioned on this list. but after that you should buy the bike that appeals to _you_ not the one that appeals to me. Use your head, stay safe. Loud pipes quell cells. 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 6 14:46:21 2004 Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 14:46:27 -0500 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: dc-cycles digest for 02/05/04 At 02:11 PM 2/6/04 -0500, Carl Schelin wrote: >On Fri, 2004-02-06 at 14:02, Mike Bartman wrote: >> At 10:25 AM 2/6/04 -0500, Carl Schelin wrote: >> >> >> >> You are nuts! Glad you made it home though. Good job! >> >> >Definately an interesting ride home. If I could just keep the children >> >from tailgating me I'd have been a _little_ happier. >> >> Caltrops? [1] > >I played D&D from lat '76 until '95 or so. I _know_ what a caltrop is. >Do you know what a yawara is? :-) I learned about caltrops from studying medieval warfare techniques, not D&D. No idea what a yawara is...sounds Japanese. Know what a "murder hole" is? :^) I know about sai, jo, bo, tanto, katana, wakizashi, nunchaku, and a bunch of other oriental weapons of various types, but not yawara. Also know a few European weapons that aren't all that common (voulge, partisan, Swiss hammer, mancatcher, etc.). I've played with and/or made a number of unusual weapons too, but not enough to master any beyond basic competence, and most not even that much (blowgun, bullwhip, throwing stars, sai, jo, tanto, katana, broadsword and sheild, spear, quarterstaff, bolo, sling, long bow/recurve, throwing knives, flail, mace, bastard sword, and, of course, rocks. Oh, and rifles and pistols, not to mention the human body! ;^) >> [1] - See the following URL, middle of the right side, for a picture if you >> never heard of them: >> >> http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-weapons/00-weapons-cat-index.htm > >But thanks for the link. I'll have to poke around. It's amazing how a >bunch of the little tidbits I learned in order to run a decent game (D&D >or otherwise) have helped in other situations. Yep! No knowledge is truely useless. :^) I didn't figure you'd need the link, but others probably found it useful. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 6 14:49:00 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 14:48:50 EST Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Speeding Moto kills jogger in Tampa To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 2/6/2004 1:48:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, viffermaniac@XXXXXX writes: > Here's what the DC (and VA) Code has to say on the subject: Thanks. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 6 15:03:13 2004 Subject: Weapons (was: Re: dc-cycles digest for 02/05/04) From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 06 Feb 2004 14:59:42 -0500 On Fri, 2004-02-06 at 14:46, Mike Bartman wrote: > At 02:11 PM 2/6/04 -0500, Carl Schelin wrote: > >I played D&D from lat '76 until '95 or so. I _know_ what a caltrop is. > >Do you know what a yawara is? :-) > > I learned about caltrops from studying medieval warfare techniques, not > D&D. No idea what a yawara is...sounds Japanese. Know what a "murder > hole" is? :^) > Yep. That's why they had long entrance ways into a castle. Same with steps. They always went up to the left. It let the defenders have open air to swing their swords while the attackers had to deal with the wall to the right and couldn't get a good swing :-) In an old "The Dragon" when I was in Germany I found an ad for "Mideveal Weapons" from Palladium Press. They also had 3 or 4 others for armor and other cultures. This was before they came out with their own RPG. A yawara was a short, 6" or so, sharpened stick. It was about pencil size in diameter. The cool thing about oriental type weapons was the restrictions caused normal everyday type tools to become weapons. Hence the jo and bo as well as the tonfa. The chu-ko-nu was an interesting invention too. A lever action repeating cross-bow (four shot). > I know about sai, jo, bo, tanto, katana, wakizashi, nunchaku, and a bunch > of other oriental weapons of various types, but not yawara. Also know a > few European weapons that aren't all that common (voulge, partisan, Swiss > hammer, mancatcher, etc.). Bohemian Ear Spoon was one of my favorites ;-) > I've played with and/or made a number of > unusual weapons too, but not enough to master any beyond basic competence, > and most not even that much (blowgun, bullwhip, throwing stars, sai, jo, > tanto, katana, broadsword and sheild, spear, quarterstaff, bolo, sling, > long bow/recurve, throwing knives, flail, mace, bastard sword, and, of > course, rocks. Oh, and rifles and pistols, not to mention the human body! ;^) > No actual combat use for me :-) > >> [1] - See the following URL, middle of the right side, for a picture if you > >> never heard of them: > >> > >> http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-weapons/00-weapons-cat-index.htm > > > >But thanks for the link. I'll have to poke around. It's amazing how a > >bunch of the little tidbits I learned in order to run a decent game (D&D > >or otherwise) have helped in other situations. > > Yep! No knowledge is truely useless. :^) > > I didn't figure you'd need the link, but others probably found it useful. > Heh, let's hope so ;-) > -- Mike B. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 6 15:48:30 2004 Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 12:48:13 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Speeding Moto kills jogger in Tampa To: Paul Wilson , ScooterFZR@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX there's a criminal context and then there's a civil context. which one are we discussing (or both)? --- Paul Wilson wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX > > > In a message dated 2/6/2004 11:58:15 AM Eastern Standard > Time, t_gimer@XXXXXX writes: > > > > > > > --- PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > > > In a message dated 2/6/2004 8:34:29 AM Eastern > Standard > > > Time, > > > Dave@XXXXXX writes: > > > > > > > I saw people > > > > cross against the light traffic conditions > > > notwithstanding, > > > > > > > > > We need to remove the pedestrians "always" have the > right > > > of way nonsense. > > > > any belief on the part of pedestrians or drivers that > > pedestrians always have the right of way is incorrect. > > where does this nonsense exist? > > > > > -- > > tg > > This was my thinking also. I thought pedestrians only > had the right of way at signal regulated intersections > while in crosswalks and when they had the Walk light. > Four-way stops are a little iffy. You have to pay more > attention to who stopped first. But, where there is no > signal or signage to regulate traffic, pedestrians do not > have the right of way. At least, that's what I was > taught. > > Scooter > > -------- > > Not true, legally speaking. In a unsignaled crosswalk > the peds have the right-of-way over cross traffic, in > both DC and VA. VA does say something about people not > crossing in "disregard" for approaching traffic. In many > cities *any* intersection counts as a "crosswalk", marked > with white lines or not. This is the case in the > District of Columbia. See below. > > Slide your big toe off the curb in those areas dominated > by polite drivers (which does not necessarily describe DC > or surrounding 'burbs) and people will stop. This was > the case in Charlottesville. > > Here's what the DC Code has to say on the subject: > > ^[)BM-' 50-2201.28. Right-of-way at crosswalks. > > (a) When official traffic-control signals are not in > place or not in operation, the driver of a vehicle shall > yield the right-of-way to a pedestrian crossing the > roadway within any marked crosswalk or unmarked crosswalk > at an intersection. > > (b) A pedestrian who has begun crossing on the "WALK" > signal shall be given the right-of-way by the driver of > any vehicle to continue to the opposite sidewalk or > safety island, whichever is nearest. > > (c) Any person convicted of failure to yield the > right-of-way to a pedestrian or of colliding with a > pedestrian shall be subject to a fine of not more than > $500, or imprisonment for not more than 30 days, or both. > Any person convicted of a violation of this section may > be sentenced to perform community service as an > alternative to, but not in addition to, any term of > imprisonment authorized by this section. > > Virginia: > > ^[)BM-' 46.2-924. Right-of-way of pedestrians; installation of > certain signs; penalty. > > A. The driver of any vehicle on a highway shall yield the > right-of-way to any pedestrian crossing such highway: > > 1. At any clearly marked crosswalk, whether at mid-block > or at the end of any block; > > 2. At any regular pedestrian crossing included in the > prolongation of the lateral boundary lines of the > adjacent sidewalk at the end of a block; > > 3. At any intersection when the driver is approaching on > a highway or street where the legal maximum speed does > not exceed thirty-five miles per hour. > > B. Notwithstanding the provisions of subsection A of this > section, at intersections or crosswalks where the > movement of traffic is being regulated by law-enforcement > officers or traffic control devices, the driver shall > yield according to the direction of the law-enforcement > officer or device. > > No pedestrian shall enter or cross an intersection in > disregard of approaching traffic. > > The drivers of vehicles entering, crossing, or turning at > intersections shall change their course, slow down, or > stop if necessary to permit pedestrians to cross such > intersections safely and expeditiously. > > Pedestrians crossing highways at intersections shall at > all times have the right-of-way over vehicles making > turns into the highways being crossed by the pedestrians. > > --------------- > > Don't have to time to do Maryland; the curious can look > it up for themselves. :) > > Paul in DC > 95 VFR - 86 VF500F > > > ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com **This material is being sent by a law firm and is intended only for the addressee. Various legal protections including the attorney-client privilege can apply to this material and no consent is given to its being read or used by anyone other than the intended recipient. Any other use is unlawful. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 6 15:57:21 2004 Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 15:57:03 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: Rob Keiser , RichardW@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Givi luggage -----Original Message----- From: Rob Keiser Rich, I've got an E460 that I use 80% of the time on my '98 with the tubular topcase only rack, and love it. When I take long trips, I switch that rack with the Wingrack 2 so I can use the two E360's as side cases. Stick to the matte black finish. Arizona Motorsports has been great to deal with. But I have also ordered some through Kiernan when they matched AZM's price. Hope that helps. Rob '98 VFR800 ----- As Rob said, AZ Motorsports has done OK by me on Givi purchases. And they offer a 10% discount if you mention the VFR list. Right now I have two Givi setups that come and go, depending on cargo needs. Monorack with E460 (Monorack I bought from a VFR lister; look for bahgans as folks clean out their garages.) Wingrack with E460 top and E21 side cases. HTH, Paul in DC From: Richard Westbrook I want to get Givi top case for my 95 VFR. I will need all the mounting hardware too. Does any one know of a good source for that stuff either online or local. Also, if anyone had any alternative recommendations for a hard case that would be great too. -Rich From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 6 16:15:36 2004 Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 16:15:17 -0500 From: Dale Horstman To: Michael Lynch CC: "'Carl Schelin'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: dc-cycles digest for 02/05/04 Michael Lynch wrote: > > Ya, didn't get out of the city ^^^^^^^^ Michael, Remember, that's our "code" for African Americans, you aren't supposed to use it for anything else. Kendall said so. Hork -- Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark) Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX '98 Concours - BugSlayer Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth '99 Concours - Grape Nehi CM #001 NRA IBA COG '82 GS850G - Neat old bike The Mason Dixon 20-20 Endurance Rally: The Games People Play Come join us in 2004: http://www.masondixon20-20.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 6 16:30:51 2004 Subject: RE: Speeding Moto thread Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 16:30:37 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Mike Bartman" , "Dave Yates" , Reading this thread with some amusement, I was reminded of a story I read a good long time ago. Science fiction, postulating a future where society has broken down into two main groups, Motorists and Pedestrians. Motorists are allowed certain mods to vehicles, armor plating and the like, while Pedestrians are limited to no more than .45 caliber handguns. Opens with a car getting ready to run down an old lady caught in a crosswalk when the light changes, and she reaches into her handbag and pulls large caliber handgun, eliminates driver before the car takes her out. Taken to absurd lengths, of course, but the preceding discussion rings a note of similarity... ;-) Robert PS: I can't for the life of me remember the title of this story, if anyone does, please shoot me a line! -----Original Message----- From: Mike Bartman [mailto:omni@XXXXXX] Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 1:47 PM To: Dave Yates; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Subject: Re: Speeding Moto kills jogger in Tampa Ok, then let's amend the law so that the drivers and riders don't get into trouble for splattering them, and introduce some new products to the market, such as "People-Off", for removing the stains on your vehicle, and "Pedi-Shield", the Lexan front end that deflects organic obstacles to the side, allowing you to proceed with minimal difficulty? If they don't care, why should anyone else? As long as news is a marketable product, rather than a public service, you will get the sensationalism. Ok, also as long as that aspect continues to sell. If the customers start getting turned off by anything other than straight reporting, that's what will get produced, but I don't see much chance of that happening on a widespread basis. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 6 16:45:39 2004 Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 16:45:33 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: Dale Horstman , Michael Lynch Subject: Re: dc-cycles digest for 02/05/04 Cc: "'Carl Schelin'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX -----Original Message----- From: Dale Horstman Sent: Feb 6, 2004 4:15 PM To: Michael Lynch Cc: 'Carl Schelin' , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: dc-cycles digest for 02/05/04 Michael Lynch wrote: > > Ya, didn't get out of the city ^^^^^^^^ Michael, Remember, that's our "code" for African Americans, you aren't supposed to use it for anything else. Kendall said so. Hork -- Furthermore, here's your trivia dose for the day, there is no such thing as the "City" of Washington outside of arcane references in the property records. The City as a governmental entity was abolished in 1871 and replaced by a district government with an appointed governor and elected legislative assembly along the model used for the western territories. The three localities within the District (City of Washington, City of Georgetown and the County of Washington) were consolidated under the authority of the territorial government. The charters of the two "cities" with the boundaries of DC were repealed as part of the consolidation. The territorial government was, in turn, abolished in 1878 and replaced by three commissioners, who ran DC until Home Rule. The "city" government is a colloquialism that has had no existence in fact from more than 130 years. Ditto with "city" council. Paul in DC 95 VFR (cover queen) - 86 VF500F (ice sled) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 6 17:13:03 2004 Subject: RE: Speeding Moto thread From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 06 Feb 2004 17:09:33 -0500 On Fri, 2004-02-06 at 16:30, Verde, Robert wrote: > Reading this thread with some amusement, I was reminded of a story I read a good long time ago. > > Science fiction, postulating a future where society has broken down into two main groups, Motorists and Pedestrians. Motorists are allowed certain mods to vehicles, armor plating and the like, while Pedestrians are limited to no more than .45 caliber handguns. Opens with a car getting ready to run down an old lady caught in a crosswalk when the light changes, and she reaches into her handbag and pulls large caliber handgun, eliminates driver before the car takes her out. > > Taken to absurd lengths, of course, but the preceding discussion rings a note of similarity... ;-) > > Robert > > PS: I can't for the life of me remember the title of this story, if anyone does, please shoot me a line! > There is an Alan Dean Foster short story: Why Johnny Can't Drive (started the CarWars board game :-) but that's not the one you're thinking of. There is also one by Harlan Ellison. I'm looking at his bibliography but don't see anything that rings a bell. Sorry. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 6 17:30:38 2004 Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 14:30:11 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Dream Garage To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >What would you have in in your own garage if money was > no object? My dream garage would hold six bikes, in descending order of lust: 1. One of the supposedly-coming-some-day Vincent Black Lightning S models. 2. A Gurney Alligator. 3. A Moto Guzzi Scura (though after a few months of riding it I might swap it for an MV Brutale, or the Aprilia Falco I just sold). 4. My dream touring bike: a BMW R1150RS less 100 lbs with standard controls and a 21st century 4-cyl. engine, or a Yamaha FJR made by an Italian company. 5. A Honda Silver Wing ABS. 6. A Magna with a disk rear brake and belt drive. All in black. >I bet the line between cruiser riders, sport riders, > dirt etc. would blur quite a bit. Not much blurring for me, I guess... -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 6 20:04:51 2004 Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 20:05:35 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Bruce Brownlee Subject: ANYTHING to justify lane splitting Just wanted to let you know, you all will be famous..... I'm wrapping up the past couple days posts and sending them to the riders defense lawyers. Out of the thousands of excuses posted, I bet they'll find a few that they can run with. Maybe if we all pay attention to the trial, someone can get a commission..... I could only have wished that the same amount of 'impartiality' was applied to Janklow..... Most bikers had the noose tied before the ink dried on his fingerprint card.... sorry guys. a dumbass biker killed someone..... the outrage shown here the first day has been replaced by a non-stop stream of excuses, and lately, attempts to blame the victim. i know the word starts with 'H', but I cant think of it right now. God forbid ANOTHER reason why splitting is dangerous should get out in the public..... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 6 20:43:10 2004 From: "Mobacc" To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: Speeding Moto kills jogger in Tampa Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 20:39:02 -0500 From: Paul Wilson . . .snip ^[)BM-' 46.2-924. Right-of-way of pedestrians; installation of certain signs; penalty. . . .snip -------- Just to keep any newbies on their toes -- there have been occasions in the past where the media has highlighted area gendarmes setting crosswalk traps, ticketing vehicles crossing a crosswalk *when a pedestrian was anywhere in it*. That is, if a ped had stepped off the curb on, say, the left hand side of the street, *both directions, all lanes* were obligated to stop. Lotsa frowns. Bill S. / DC '99 VN750 > Dismount and walk me through the crosswalk. Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 6 21:19:52 2004 Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 21:19:48 -0500 Subject: Ridin' in the ice From: Bob McKeithen To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I left Leesburg Thursday night about 10:00 PM to head home to Harpers Ferry. I think I went through every type of precipitation except hail. The roads varied from wet, to ice covered, to snow covered. This sidecar rig is the hot lick for this crap. The only real problem was that my visor kept freezing over. Raised the visor and then my glasses frosted over. I stopped and took those off and just endured the pain of being pelted with ice balls and squinted to see. Minor traction problems on the hills--had to try to get a run at them and then slowly roll off the throttle as I went up to avoid wheelspin. Looks like I need two things to make this work better--heated visor like the snowmobilers wear and probably an enduro/trials type tire for the rear. What a hoot. Bob From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 6 21:29:11 2004 Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 18:28:57 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Speeding Moto kills jogger in Tampa To: Sean Steele , ScooterFZR@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Sean Steele wrote: > >>any belief on the part of pedestrians or drivers that > >>pedestrians always have the right of way is incorrect. > >>where does this nonsense exist? > > In practice, Williamsburg, VA. Cars stop for peds all the > time. colonial williamsburg? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 6 21:31:57 2004 Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 18:31:44 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Speeding Moto kills jogger in Tampa To: Mobacc , DC-Cycles yes... silver spring, md "stings" have nabbed a few clients --- Mobacc wrote: > From: Paul Wilson > . . .snip > ^[)BM-' 46.2-924. Right-of-way of pedestrians; installation of > certain signs; > penalty. > . . .snip > > -------- > > Just to keep any newbies on their toes -- there have > been occasions in > the past where the media has highlighted area gendarmes > setting crosswalk > traps, ticketing vehicles crossing a crosswalk *when a > pedestrian was > anywhere in it*. That is, if a ped had stepped off the > curb on, say, the > left hand side of the street, *both directions, all > lanes* were obligated to > stop. Lotsa frowns. > > Bill S. / DC > '99 VN750 > Dismount and walk me through the crosswalk. > Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Feb 7 10:54:04 2004 Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 07:53:54 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: ANYTHING to justify lane splitting To: Bruce Brownlee , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Bruce Brownlee wrote: > Just wanted to let you know, you all will be famous..... > > I'm wrapping up the past couple days posts and sending > them to > the riders defense lawyers. Out of the thousands of > excuses posted, > I bet they'll find a few that they can run with. Maybe > if we all pay > attention to the trial, someone can get a commission..... > > I could only have wished that the same amount of > 'impartiality' > was applied to Janklow..... Most bikers had the noose > tied > before the ink dried on his fingerprint card.... > > sorry guys. a dumbass biker killed someone..... the > outrage > shown here the first day has been replaced by a non-stop > stream of excuses, and lately, attempts to blame the > victim. > > i know the word starts with 'H', but I cant think of it > right now. > > God forbid ANOTHER reason why splitting is dangerous > should get out in the public..... did i miss something? all i've seen here are a few anecdotes about selfish local joggers and some guessing as to what actually happened in florida. riders defense lawyers, get your delete keys ready. -- tg __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Feb 7 14:15:25 2004 Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 11:15:09 -0800 (PST) From: Adam Reinhardt Subject: Re: Dream Garage To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Here's my dream garage: 1995 Mazda RX7 twin turbo 1970-72 Porsche 911S 1973 Alfa Romeo GTV 1995 Honda NSR 250 1998 Honda VFR 800 1996 Honda NC35 1990 GSXR 750 1995 Ducati 900SS and maybe a dual-sport bike oh yeah, and a Toyota Tacoma. Adam --- PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > In a message dated 2/6/2004 10:18:52 AM Eastern > Standard Time, > rob@XXXXXX writes: > > > Carl is a perfect example. He > > has a Harley, a Suzuki GSXR and is building his > own chopper. > > My own "dream garage" would rival Jay Leno. A few > sport bikes (prolly > starting with a 250 Ninja,) a couple of customs > (trike or hack,) dirt, dirt/street, > competition, and a few odd restorations (Suzuki RE5 > for instance) > > There are time I envy "weekend" riders who can buy > anything they want and > wait for conditions to suit the bike. The need for a > "turnkey, do everything" > bike (no cage) and lack of funds limits my own > selection to just a few of the > hundreds available. > > There is an idea, anyone want to start a "dream > garage" thread? > What would you have in in your own garage if money > was no object? > I bet the line between cruiser riders, sport riders, > dirt etc. would blur > quite a bit. > > > Loud pipes quell cells. > 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not > careful. > > John Walters (Long John) > PenguinBiker@XXXXXX > Up near DC > > > Honda ST1100X Pan European > BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles > Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Feb 7 14:38:39 2004 From: "LindaT." To: "Dc-Cycles" Subject: Movin' on Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 14:37:35 -0500 Sometime in the next few weeks/months, I'll be moving to sunny South Fl to care for the aged Mother. So I have some things I'd like to dispose of. First being a hottub. It's a Cal Spa, seats 5. It's been in my back yard since 1987 and the redwood skirting is shot. The motor and heater work just fine. It runs off 220V. The timer doesn't. The interior of the tub has some cosmetic blemishes, but it works just ducky. Cover was new in 1999. Free to a good home and you have to pick it up. Direct any questions to me or you can call me at 703-690-4763. PS. I'm keeping all the bikes ;-) LindaT. http://www.customtankbags.com Now - TankBags for 1800 Wings Springfield, VA (suburb of our nation's capital) AMA IBA HSTA BMWBMW 99 R1100RT Mr. Buzzy 95 F3 Purple Haze 00 KLR250 Super Sherpa Tenzing From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Feb 7 15:46:50 2004 Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 12:46:44 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Dream Garage To: Adam Reinhardt , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Adam Reinhardt wrote: > Here's my dream garage: > > 1995 Mazda RX7 twin turbo > 1970-72 Porsche 911S > 1973 Alfa Romeo GTV The only problem with old cars is that they drive like old cars. I had a couple of GTVs in their time, though, along with a GTV Junior (which never came to the states), two Alfa Spiders and a Giulia 1600 Ti, the best braking car I've ever driven short of a pure race car (not that I used to be an Alfa guy or anything). All the Alfas were definitely drivers cars -- the antithesis of anything with a turbo, however. 8;) -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 8 10:07:33 2004 Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 10:08:22 -0500 (EST) From: dan To: Bob McKeithen cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Ridin' in the ice On Fri, 6 Feb 2004, Bob McKeithen wrote: > I left Leesburg Thursday night about 10:00 PM to head home to Harpers > Ferry. I think I went through every type of precipitation except hail. > The roads varied from wet, to ice covered, to snow covered. This > sidecar rig is the hot lick for this crap. The only real problem was Were you coming down on Sycolin Rd to 7/15? I think I saw you, couldn't have been two nuts riding around the same time. Nice rig btw. Dan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 8 11:24:18 2004 From: "LindaT." To: "Dc-Cycles" Subject: Movin' on Part Deux Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 11:24:12 -0500 With the success of the hottub give-away, I have several more things I need to find a new home for: 1) large dog house by Rubbermaid. 2 piece affair - top and bottom. Been sitting outside for 11 years, but still serviceable. 2) artist's easel. Nice wood, looks brand-new, about 6.5 feet tall. As always, you must pick up. More to come as it is unearthed. LindaT. http://www.customtankbags.com Now - TankBags for 1800 Wings Springfield, VA (suburb of our nation's capital) AMA IBA HSTA BMWBMW 99 R1100RT Mr. Buzzy 95 F3 Purple Haze 00 KLR250 Super Sherpa Tenzing From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 8 12:10:52 2004 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Tom Gimer , Sean Steele , ScooterFZR@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Speeding Moto kills jogger in Tampa Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 12:12:23 -0500 try using your right of way crossing 495 and see how many people stop to let you by. Rob "Greasy spot mile 23" Sharp On Fri, 6 Feb 2004 18:28:57 -0800 (PST), Tom Gimer wrote > --- Sean Steele wrote: > > >>any belief on the part of pedestrians or drivers that > > >>pedestrians always have the right of way is incorrect. > > >>where does this nonsense exist? > > > > In practice, Williamsburg, VA. Cars stop for peds all the > > time. > > colonial williamsburg? > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 8 12:12:29 2004 Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 12:12:08 -0500 From: Dale Horstman To: "LindaT." CC: Dc-Cycles Subject: Re: Movin' on Part Deux "LindaT." wrote: > > With the success of the hottub give-away, I have several more things I need > to find a new home for: Linda, I want to say we are sure gonna miss you here, but since the last time I saw you, we were both out in Montana, I figure you can't possibly be going all *THAT* far away. :) Best of luck with the upcoming move and such. Stay in touch. Dale -- Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark) Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX '98 Concours - BugSlayer Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth '99 Concours - Grape Nehi CM #001 NRA IBA COG '82 GS850G - Neat old bike The Mason Dixon 20-20 Endurance Rally: The Games People Play Come join us in 2004: http://www.masondixon20-20.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 8 12:27:45 2004 Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 09:27:37 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: different subject (Re: Subject: Re: Speeding Moto kills jogger in Tampa) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Rob Sharp wrote: > try using your right of way crossing 495 and see how many people stop to > let > you by. > Doesn't it say on the signs leading to 495 that pedestrians and motorized bicycles are prohibited? I think that would override the general state-wide law. OBJBike: Nice little ride around town today. "clear ice that shows the pavement under it as darker than the surrounding pavement" wasn't much of a problem. If you see sun on it, it's likely just water. The occasional times I hit it was while going straight and that's no problem. > Rob "Greasy spot mile 23" Sharp Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 8 12:35:09 2004 From: "Gary Foreman" To: Subject: Bike Grab for sale Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 12:36:15 -0500 I have two of these, only need one now. http://www.bike-grab.com/ $100 if I don't have to ship it! Live in Winchester, Work in Leesburg. Gary From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 9 07:44:02 2004 From: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" To: "'Tom Gimer'" , Bruce Brownlee , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: ANYTHING to justify lane splitting Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 07:43:53 -0500 I think I've missed something too. This could get interesting. -----Original Message----- From: Tom Gimer [mailto:t_gimer@XXXXXX] Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 10:54 AM To: Bruce Brownlee; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: ANYTHING to justify lane splitting --- Bruce Brownlee wrote: > Just wanted to let you know, you all will be famous..... > > I'm wrapping up the past couple days posts and sending > them to > the riders defense lawyers. Out of the thousands of > excuses posted, > I bet they'll find a few that they can run with. Maybe > if we all pay > attention to the trial, someone can get a commission..... > > I could only have wished that the same amount of > 'impartiality' > was applied to Janklow..... Most bikers had the noose > tied > before the ink dried on his fingerprint card.... > > sorry guys. a dumbass biker killed someone..... the > outrage > shown here the first day has been replaced by a non-stop > stream of excuses, and lately, attempts to blame the > victim. > > i know the word starts with 'H', but I cant think of it > right now. > > God forbid ANOTHER reason why splitting is dangerous > should get out in the public..... did i miss something? all i've seen here are a few anecdotes about selfish local joggers and some guessing as to what actually happened in florida. riders defense lawyers, get your delete keys ready. -- tg __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 9 08:52:01 2004 Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 08:51:52 -0500 Subject: Re: ANYTHING to justify lane splitting From: Randy Moran To: DC Cycles I don't know. I kinda got the same vibe that Bruce did. There seems quite a lot of backhanded justification for the speeding joggerkiller's boneheadedness, made a little more obvious following so closely on all the condemnation of the congressman. I know only what I've read about both incidents, but the they strike me as being very similar in both cause and effect: driver inattention leading to fatality. RPM From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 9 09:31:44 2004 Subject: Hubris, Bad karma..now I am one of the Fallen Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 09:33:52 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: Saturday it is a little chilly but I break out the R6 and ride from Arlington to Dale City to check out a certain kind of show. Good ride - cold...a few wet and icy spots remaining. Spent some relaxing time cleaning the bike and feeling good. Yesterday I was out again and rode all over the place with my three riding pals. No ice, only a few water spots. Hit the bar I work at to check out a model call for an upcoming fashion show. Laughing, joking with the fellows, I broke my own promise and allowed myself two whiskey and ginger ales. Met a pair of very nice, charming girls. Somehow over the next two hours, my Ducati monster riding pal invites them to dinner at a local steak house only recently made uber-popular by a Washington Post review. Life is good-right? The owner send over a round of hot chocolate and coffee on the house. I get up, put my gear on, walk outside and start the bike. I parked in one of those in between spaces on the lot with the bike in line of sight. Turn my head and walk into the restaurant. Turn around look back and something is wrong- the tail lights of my bike are diagonal and far too close to the ground. I run out and forget what I learned at the safety course and lift the bike up using my upper body. Broken clutch lever, scraped handle bar. Left foot peg snapped. Left turning signal munged up. Scratches and scrapes on the cowling. Scratches in three different places on the left fairing. The steel or aluminum cap? That has the words YAMAHA on it is scraped. Of course, a nice smell of gasoline. I know I am a grown adult that should have learned to take nothing from granted and realize it is only a material possession but the next few hours blur by. Somehow I made it pack to the underground parking garage of my day job. Went home, forced my mind into stillness and fell asleep by 11pm. Woke up at four. I am strong enough not to replay the tape or play the what if game. Before pulling into the restaurant lot a bunch of yuppie suburbanites in a VW cut in front of me and parked nearby. I beeped the horn and slowed down to alert them and make space. The girl on her cell phone shot me a dirty look and as they parked she remarked that I was parked in a handicapped zone. I would be curious to understand how a bike can tip over onto it's kickstand side by itself. To the best of my recollection there were no cars beside me and the one guy lurking around the outside was nowhere near the bike. I guess I am going to be looking for parts online today and did have a few questions to the group: - is it worthwhile calling my insurance - would SF -{the inits of my insurance co}cover a mysterious drop? - would it be worth it - any recommendations other than bike bandit and e-bay for parts? - anyway of preventing this in the future? There was no sidewalk to back the tire up against and I could swear the kickstand was fully engaged because the bike stood upright for an entire hour or so, it was only after I put the key in and started the bike that it tipped over. Down but nowhere near out and the fight to rebuild begins now. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 9 10:15:32 2004 Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 10:15:27 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Anyone else commute through Clifton? '02 F4 4Sale So - I rode in today for the first time in a few weeks. My driveway is still 90% ice and slush, but what the Hell. Its supposed to be in the mid 40s today, so I rode in. I'll have to say I didn't see any black ice, but plenty of normal out in the open sheets of ice - especially on Newman and Colchester. I am slowly remembering that downshifting in sand results in my rear tire locking momentarily. Its just good to be back on the bike. My brother in law is selling his 2002 Honda F4 if anyone is interested. Lives in Manassas. He doesn't have a firm price set yet, but he will consider any offer. Bike is in perfect condition with low miles (around 2k I think). Grey with red striping. No mods. No drops or problems. I'd buy it, but the timing isn't right and I'm holding out for a cheap, used SV650 down the road :-) If interested, you can email me for more info. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 9 10:24:47 2004 Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 10:24:41 -0500 To: From: Troutman Subject: Re: Hubris, Bad karma..now I am one of the Fallen At 09:33 AM 2/9/2004, Julian Halton wrote: >I guess I am going to be looking for parts online today and did have a >few questions to the group: >- is it worthwhile calling my insurance *that depends* - on how mush $ damage was caused and your deductible. >- would SF -{the inits of my insurance co}cover a mysterious drop? ? I would assume your comprehensive would cover that. >- would it be worth it Price out the parts online and with a dealership and see what it would cost. >- any recommendations other than bike bandit and e-bay for parts? Mailing lists specific to your ride are always the best place to look. Find an R6 owners group and put the word out. I guarantee someone has a lightly scratched part or an extra for sale. >- anyway of preventing this in the future? There was no sidewalk to back >the tire up against and I could swear the kickstand was fully engaged >because the bike stood upright for an entire hour or so, it was only >after I put the key in and started the bike that it tipped over. Without knowing what caused your problem, I can't help. My VFR kick stand sank into a North Carolina parking lot once. The heat of summer cooked the weak asphalt it almost fell. I caught it just in time and learned to use my parking disc or a crushed coke can when on crappy asphalt (or REALLY HOT days). A center stand is more sure footed, but you have no guarantees. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 9 10:41:26 2004 Subject: RE: ANYTHING to justify lane splitting Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 10:41:17 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Bruce Brownlee" , I'm not sure I had the same impression of the list chatter, but YMMV of course. Personally, I think they ought to throw the book at the idiot in question, and look into having him stripped of rank as well. The other thing I would note is that I didn't think the accident was caused by lane-splitting, more by excessive speed and reckless driving. Lane-splitting may be how he arrived at the intersection, but no one should be doing eighty+ on city streets, amongst traffic, and while the traffic light was red or had just turned green. My ex-Navy buddy, a Beemer rider himself, said the nickname for sport-bikes in the Navy was "Kill-A-Swabby;" young enlistees would get high-powered bikes as first rides (easy credit when Uncle Sam is your guarantor) and proceed to wrap them into immovable objects at a high rate of speed. Robert -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Brownlee [mailto:brownlee_b@XXXXXX] Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 8:06 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: ANYTHING to justify lane splitting Just wanted to let you know, you all will be famous..... I'm wrapping up the past couple days posts and sending them to the riders defense lawyers. Out of the thousands of excuses posted, I bet they'll find a few that they can run with. Maybe if we all pay attention to the trial, someone can get a commission..... I could only have wished that the same amount of 'impartiality' was applied to Janklow..... Most bikers had the noose tied before the ink dried on his fingerprint card.... sorry guys. a dumbass biker killed someone..... the outrage shown here the first day has been replaced by a non-stop stream of excuses, and lately, attempts to blame the victim. i know the word starts with 'H', but I cant think of it right now. God forbid ANOTHER reason why splitting is dangerous should get out in the public..... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 9 11:47:05 2004 Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 11:46:57 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: Julian Halton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Hubris, Bad karma..now I am one of the Fallen -----Original Message----- From: Julian Halton The owner send over a round of hot chocolate and coffee on the house. I get up, put my gear on, walk outside and start the bike. I parked in one of those in between spaces on the lot with the bike in line of sight. Turn my head and walk into the restaurant. Turn around look back and something is wrong- the tail lights of my bike are diagonal and far too close to the ground. I run out and forget what I learned at the safety course and lift the bike up using my upper body. ..... I guess I am going to be looking for parts online today and did have a few questions to the group: ..... - any recommendations other than bike bandit and e-bay for parts? - anyway of preventing this in the future? There was no sidewalk to back the tire up against and I could swear the kickstand was fully engaged because the bike stood upright for an entire hour or so, it was only after I put the key in and started the bike that it tipped over. ---------- Check out www.ronayers.com for OEM parts. Sorry to hear of your tip-over. Adrenaline is funny stuff. The last time I spotted my VFR on its side, I became slightly "hot under the collar" shall we say, and just snatched it, cover and all, back upright. I prolly could have bench-pressed the sucker! :) Anyway, don't know if this addresses your situation or not, but just a couple of observations. In my opinion parking bikes near "watering holes" is asking for trouble. Too many idiots, egged by alcohol, think it's a lark to sit on bikes and otherwise screw around with other people's property. Secondly, discounting malicious intent, in this day and age of block-long SUVs and whatnot, it is simply beyond the capabilities of a lot of drivers to rotate that big melon above their shoulders and "look before backing." If I have a choice, I will park in front of a cage, not behind, when I'm on the street. End of the block is a good location. People seem to do better not hitting things that are positioned squarely in front of them. Paul in DC 95 VFR - 86 VF500F From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 9 11:50:05 2004 Subject: RE: Anyone else commute through Clifton? Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 11:49:31 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Troutman" , Nope, not Clifton... I had an appointment in Vienna this morning, so afterwards I took Beulah Road all the way to Reston. Quite the scenic route, and a bit nerve-wracking to boot; nothing like being leaned over for a curve and then realize the light-colored road surface was sand. No sliding, but the seat of the bike has a pronounced pucker in it... ;-) The parking lot here at work was a skating rink, after the weekend melting the ice covers large expanses of the asphalt. I can't say enough good things about the Bridgestone Battleax BT45's, nary a slip or slide out of them, even riding across ice. A bit rigid when cold, but quite predictable in feel. If anyone still needs bias-ply tires for a stock fitment, I certainly recommend these. The only thing I'd do differently were I to order new ones is to drop to the 110 in the front, the 120 is a bit slow turning at low speeds. Robert From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 9 12:22:22 2004 Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 12:22:37 -0500 To: Randy Moran , DC Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: ANYTHING to justify lane splitting At 08:51 AM 2/9/04 -0500, Randy Moran wrote: >the condemnation of the congressman. I know only what I've read about >both incidents, but the they strike me as being very similar in both >cause and effect: driver inattention leading to fatality. If you substitute "driver recklessness" for "driver inattention", I'll agree with you. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 9 12:22:26 2004 Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 12:19:29 -0500 To: "Rob Sharp" , Tom Gimer , Sean Steele , ScooterFZR@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Speeding Moto kills jogger in Tampa Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 12:12 PM 2/8/04 -0500, Rob Sharp wrote: >try using your right of way crossing 495 and see how many people stop to let >you by. Overridden by the law that says "no pedestrians on the interstate around here". Probably also affected by that bit that basically meant "don't jump out into traffic...give them a fighting chance not to kill you". -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 9 15:09:36 2004 Subject: RE: Winter riding Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 15:09:30 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Paul Wilson" , So, somebody does make studded snow tires for motorcycles! Unless, of course, they're hand-built jobs... Still, it sure would be nice to have a spare set of rims and tires handy (in a warm heated garage, of course) to swap onto the moto for some winter riding fun! Robert -----Original Message----- From: Paul Wilson [mailto:viffermaniac@XXXXXX] Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 9:50 AM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Winter riding Now here's some *real* winter riding. How about a wintertime beach run to the Barents Sea?? http://www.allroadtour.fi/barents2003/index.htm The VF started up this morning with one push of the button. I eased her over the little crusty snow mound on our street, through about 100 yards of crud in the street and finally to wet pavement. Paul in DC 95 VFR - 86 VF500F From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 9 16:12:28 2004 Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 13:12:23 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: RE: Winter riding To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Wow, where'd you dredge this message up? This site was posted here last year. Still though, I was thinking about that trip recently. Probably when I was watching Two-wheel Tuesday and the ice races. Thanks again (no, I didn't get the original message weirdly enough) Carl --- "Verde, Robert" wrote: > So, somebody does make studded snow tires for motorcycles! Unless, of > course, they're hand-built jobs... > > Still, it sure would be nice to have a spare set of rims and tires handy > (in a warm heated garage, of course) to swap onto the moto for some > winter riding fun! > > Robert > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Wilson [mailto:viffermaniac@XXXXXX] > Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 9:50 AM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Winter riding > > > Now here's some *real* winter riding. How about a wintertime beach run > to the Barents Sea?? > > http://www.allroadtour.fi/barents2003/index.htm > > The VF started up this morning with one push of the button. I eased her > over the little crusty snow mound on our street, through about 100 yards > of crud in the street and finally to wet pavement. > > > > Paul in DC > 95 VFR - 86 VF500F > > ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 9 16:27:26 2004 Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 16:25:10 -0500 To: "Verde, Robert" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: Winter riding At 03:09 PM 2/9/04 -0500, Verde, Robert wrote: >So, somebody does make studded snow tires for motorcycles! Unless, of course, they're hand-built jobs... I don't know about commercial tires, but I saw a show a few years ago about ice racing. The guys racing on the frozen lake (Michigan I think) made their own ice tires from knobby dirt bike tires and sheet metal screws. They just screwed one into each knob. The hex heads bit into the ice enough to let them do 60+ on a frozen lake. A quick Google turned up these: Ice tires for sale: =================== http://www.iera22.com/temporary/ice/ice_tire.htm http://www.rockcentralcycle.com/ice.html How-To do your own: =================== http://www.vermontracing.com/projects/project_steve/702/ice_racing_tires/ice _tires_two/building_ice_racing_tires_2.htm http://www.trailrider.com/printer_23.shtml Where to get the parts: ======================= http://www.magicracing.com/myProducts.cfm?CategoryID=503%7CICE%20RACING%20PR ODUCTS Use of chains too: ================== http://www.badgerkartclub.com/icetires.htm Tales of ice racing: ==================== http://www.off-road.com/tales/icetale.html These things are only for use on ice though, not roads. Even if it wasn't illegal to use them on roads, the pavement would wreck them pretty quickly. There are lots more hits on Google. If you want these and more, search on "ice tires screws". -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 9 16:36:33 2004 Subject: RE: Winter riding Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 16:36:00 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Mike Bartman" , The pic I was referencing on the extreme tours site seems to show a stock Metzeler tire, with some pretty factory-appearing studs in it. However, I know that some "studded" tires are sold without studs, and these can be added later by a tire dealer (or access to the right tools). I was merely riffing on the possibilities of having studded snow tires on a bike for those days the roads are just too crappy for words. I know that in Oregon there is a specific period that studded tires can be used on the street, are they actually illegal for street use here? Robert http://www.allroadtour.fi/barents2003/day3/imagepages/image1.htm -----Original Message----- From: Mike Bartman [mailto:omni@XXXXXX] Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 4:25 PM To: Verde, Robert; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Winter riding I don't know about commercial tires, but I saw a show a few years ago about ice racing. The guys racing on the frozen lake (Michigan I think) made their own ice tires from knobby dirt bike tires and sheet metal screws. They just screwed one into each knob. The hex heads bit into the ice enough to let them do 60+ on a frozen lake. These things are only for use on ice though, not roads. Even if it wasn't illegal to use them on roads, the pavement would wreck them pretty quickly. There are lots more hits on Google. If you want these and more, search on "ice tires screws". -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 9 16:48:06 2004 Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 16:47:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Winter riding From: Randy Moran To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Here's a link to a rarified brand of winter riding fun: http://www.iceroadracing.net/ Looks like fun. There are some nice pix of studded tires in the photo section. RPM On Monday, February 9, 2004, at 03:09 PM, Verde, Robert wrote: > So, somebody does make studded snow tires for motorcycles! Unless, of > course, they're hand-built jobs... > > Still, it sure would be nice to have a spare set of rims and tires > handy (in a warm heated garage, of course) to swap onto the moto for > some winter riding fun! From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 9 18:20:59 2004 Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 18:20:06 -0500 To: "Verde, Robert" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: Winter riding At 04:36 PM 2/9/04 -0500, Verde, Robert wrote: >I know that in Oregon there is a specific period that studded tires can be used on the street, are they actually illegal for street use here? Depends where you are. Virginia allows them some of the time, as does the District. Maryland doesn't at any time. Info here: http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/winter/states.PDF The reason for the ban or limitation is usually pavement damage: http://hotmix.ce.washington.edu/wsdot_web/Modules/09_pavement_evaluation/stu dded_tires.htm But there appear to be some safety concerns having to do with traction on non-icy roads: http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/winter/studtire/Studded_Tire_Report_Final_Nov_2002.pdf -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 9 21:45:49 2004 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "DC-CYCLES" Subject: Mr. Patton is published Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 21:45:55 -0500 One of our listers is published, a letter to the editor in the March issue of Motorcycle Consumer News, p. 5. Sorry, no link available and my typing fingers are worn out. Paul in DC 95 VFR - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 10 07:27:33 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 07:27:23 EST Subject: Re: Winter riding To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Content-Language: en In a message dated 2/9/2004 4:28:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, omni@XXXXXX writes: > made > their own ice tires from knobby dirt bike tires and sheet metal screws. There are "sheet metal" type screws made specifically for that purpose. The heads are not flat like normal screws but pointy, kind of a crown shape. I expect you could find them in an ATV/off road catalogue. (On a miserable trip into Florida one Christmas in my wife^[)BM-bM-^@M-^Ys van we were told by a Fl highway patrolman that chains were illegal in Fl. My reaction? How the hell is a Fl cop without chains going to catch a vehicle with chains on a sheet of ice? Then I put them on and drove for nearly 100mi. before finding an end to the ice.) Loud pipes quell cells. 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 10 08:54:58 2004 Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 05:54:40 -0800 (PST) From: Lurking Subject: Re: dc-cycles digest for 02/09/04 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Question for those more experienced than I: Last night, I was riding my bike and was sitting in a left turn only lane. I waited through an entire cycle of the light, and it was obvious to me that the sensor in the road didn't detect myself or my motorcycle. I pushed the bike backward and forward a few feet hoping to trip the sensor. After waiting for at least 4 full minutes, I saw there was no oncoming traffic and made the left turn (through lanes had green, but my left turn light was red). I was pulled over by a Fairfax County cop and got a ticket for disregarding a red light. What should my plea be when I appear at the courthouse on March 17? I was thinking not guilty, but I am going to testify to exactly what happened (as I describe here). I'd like to get the charge dismissed, since it was obvious that I wasn't disregarding the light, however I did drive (ride) through a red light. Should I plea guilty and explain the circumstances? If I plea guilty, that removes any chance of having the charge dismissed, correct? I really was amazed that the officer cited me, after I explained exactly what happened. Fairfax County is tough! ===== "If we had no winter, the spring would not be so pleasant: if we did not sometimes taste of adversity, prosperity would not be so welcome." -Anne Bradstreet __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 10 08:57:02 2004 Subject: Interesting From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 10 Feb 2004 08:53:32 -0500 I gotta say. Having an apparent[0] cracked rib sure makes for an interesting and slightly distracting ride. I did ride a bit more sedately and getting on the bike was an excercise in slowness. But it's too nice not to ride. Carl [0] Feels like a knife in my back. Arm movement is painful. Coughing and even talking is a bit painful. Heaven help me if I sneeze. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 10 10:04:26 2004 Subject: RE: red light turn Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 10:04:13 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Lurking" , I suspect the official position is that you should have made three right turns, not the one left... Still, this seems to entail illegal driving as well, as I'm sure it's not legal to pull out of a turn lane while at the light. I have had some luck with thumbing the starter button while parking right over one of the sensor lines in the pavement, this will usually trigger the traffic signal. Not always, though, and I have waited through entire cycles of lights until a cage pulled up behind me. Best of luck on the legal front! Robert -----Original Message----- From: Lurking [mailto:lurking444@XXXXXX] Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 8:55 AM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: dc-cycles digest for 02/09/04 Question for those more experienced than I: Last night, I was riding my bike and was sitting in a left turn only lane. I waited through an entire cycle of the light, and it was obvious to me that the sensor in the road didn't detect myself or my motorcycle. I pushed the bike backward and forward a few feet hoping to trip the sensor. After waiting for at least 4 full minutes, I saw there was no oncoming traffic and made the left turn (through lanes had green, but my left turn light was red). I was pulled over by a Fairfax County cop and got a ticket for disregarding a red light. What should my plea be when I appear at the courthouse on March 17? I was thinking not guilty, but I am going to testify to exactly what happened (as I describe here). I'd like to get the charge dismissed, since it was obvious that I wasn't disregarding the light, however I did drive (ride) through a red light. Should I plea guilty and explain the circumstances? If I plea guilty, that removes any chance of having the charge dismissed, correct? I really was amazed that the officer cited me, after I explained exactly what happened. Fairfax County is tough! ===== "If we had no winter, the spring would not be so pleasant: if we did not sometimes taste of adversity, prosperity would not be so welcome." -Anne Bradstreet From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 10 10:07:29 2004 Subject: RE: Interesting Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 10:07:17 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Carl Schelin" , It is nice out there, Carl, but I think you're angling to get the loony rider crown away from Leon, riding with a cracked rib! I do hope you're at least thoroughly taped up? The weather is just that bit too cool for summer gloves, yet too warm for the thermal ones. It is nice to know that (most) of the dark patches on the pavement are just water, though, riding these past two weeks has been an exercise in scanning and paranoia. Robert -----Original Message----- From: Carl Schelin [mailto:cschelin@XXXXXX] Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 8:54 AM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Interesting I gotta say. Having an apparent[0] cracked rib sure makes for an interesting and slightly distracting ride. I did ride a bit more sedately and getting on the bike was an excercise in slowness. But it's too nice not to ride. Carl [0] Feels like a knife in my back. Arm movement is painful. Coughing and even talking is a bit painful. Heaven help me if I sneeze. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 10 10:29:19 2004 Subject: RE: Interesting From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 10 Feb 2004 10:25:50 -0500 On Tue, 2004-02-10 at 10:07, Verde, Robert wrote: > It is nice out there, Carl, but I think you're angling to get the loony > rider crown away from Leon, riding with a cracked rib! I do hope you're > at least thoroughly taped up? > Oh yea. I'd rather ride with a cracked rib than ride public transportation ;-) See: http://www.medinfosource.com/expert/exp4031003b.html They don't advise taping up a cracked rib (risk of pheumonia or a collapsed lung) and basically letting the pain dictate what activities you are able to do. It can take up to 3 months to heal though. I say "apparant" because if there's nothing a doctor can do, then they can only prescribe pain pills and confirm a cracked rib/separated rib and I'm adverse to unnecessary pill taking (and money spending, chopper project not withstanding). > The weather is just that bit too cool for summer gloves, yet too warm for > the thermal ones. It is nice to know that (most) of the dark patches on > the pavement are just water, though, riding these past two weeks has been > an exercise in scanning and paranoia. You mean "additional" scanning and paranoia :-) I almost didn't turn on the gear this morning it was that nice. I'm sure I won't have to on the way home and I might play with the zippers on the JR pants. > > Robert > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 10 10:34:57 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 10:34:53 EST Subject: Re: dc-cycles digest for 02/09/04 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 2/10/2004 8:55:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, lurking444@XXXXXX writes: > I'd like to get the charge dismissed, since it was obvious that I wasn't > disregarding the light, however I did drive (ride) through a red light. You drove through a _malfunctioning_ red light. As I understand it if you are at a malfunctioning light you may proceed as though it were broken, flashing, or just plain out. NOTE: I am not any kind of lawyer and the preceding is just what I have heard over the years. I think you need to talk to a lawyer (I would rather pay a lawyer, then a bullshit ticket.) One thing I would do _now_ is call and file a complaint about the light, get something on record about it, it could help, if not you then the next biker. Loud pipes quell cells. 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 10 10:36:48 2004 Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 07:36:39 -0800 (PST) From: matthew patton Subject: better thread repair system To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I think Heli-coil just got topped in the elegance department. http://www.timesert.com/ ===== * A successful marriage isn't finding the right person; it's being the right person. * To forgive is to set the prisoner free and then discover the prisoner was you. * Liberalism always generates the exact opposite of its stated intent. - Jim Quinn (WRRK) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 10 10:42:23 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 10:42:10 EST Subject: Re: dc-cycles digest for 02/09/04 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 2/10/2004 8:55:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, lurking444@XXXXXX writes: > it was obvious to me that the sensor in the road > didn't detect myself or my motorcycle There is a potential good side to this, IF you flip it around and ask "Where is the spot in the lane where you are _least_ likely to trip the light sensor?" As in, you have a tailgater riding your ass, the light turns yellow and you do not dare nail the binders for fear the moron behind you will not and run your ass over. Where in the lane are you least likely to trip the red light camera? This is a very real and common situation, I have run many a "pink" light only to have the cage behind me follow me through. How do we avoid getting a ticket for trying to stay alive? Loud pipes quell cells. 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 10 10:52:17 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 10:52:03 EST Subject: Re: better thread repair system To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 2/10/2004 10:37:12 AM Eastern Standard Time, pattonme@XXXXXX writes: > I think Heli-coil just got topped in the elegance department. Not just. I used some of these (time serts) back when I was wrenching, if fact I think I still have some of the spark plug ones in my tool box. Like everything else they have advantages and disadvantages, if you are inclined to strip things out you should have both in your tool set. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 10 11:20:25 2004 Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 11:15:01 -0500 To: Lurking , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: dc-cycles digest for 02/09/04 At 05:54 AM 2/10/04 -0800, Lurking wrote: >Question for those more experienced than I: > >Last night, I was riding my bike and was sitting in a left turn only lane. I waited >through an entire cycle of the light, and it was obvious to me that the sensor in the road >didn't detect myself or my motorcycle. I pushed the bike backward and forward a few feet >hoping to trip the sensor. After waiting for at least 4 full minutes, I saw there was no >oncoming traffic and made the left turn (through lanes had green, but my left turn light was red). No idea about the specifics of how you should plead, but I would certainly report the faulty sensor and then follow up and get a report of the repair to take to court. It won't hurt at all to be able to prove that the county's equipment was indeed faulty. I'd also wonder why that cop just happened to be hanging around that particular intersection...does he write a lot of tickets like that for bikes at that location? I've had that situation myself once or twice, generally late at night when there aren't any cars around to trigger the thing. If there's an alternative (i.e. go straight, make a U turn and come back and make a left into a right) I take it, but once there wasn't (T intersection, no right on red, I wanted a left anyway, and 2am. Made sure there was nobody around, and went. No problems. >I really was amazed that the officer cited me, after I >explained exactly what happened. Fairfax County is tough! Not tough...greedy. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 10 11:20:26 2004 Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 11:19:29 -0500 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Interesting At 08:53 AM 2/10/04 -0500, Carl Schelin wrote: >I gotta say. Having an apparent[0] cracked rib sure makes for an >[0] Feels like a knife in my back. Arm movement is painful. Coughing and >even talking is a bit painful. Heaven help me if I sneeze. Have you seen a doctor? If not, why not? At your age (and mine) a cracked rib is less likely than a broken one. Acting like all is normal when you have a broken rib can result in a punctured lung. That not only gets you an ambulance ride and is potentially life-threatening (particularly if you happen to be on the bike at the time), it also extends your recovery period (i.e. non-riding time). Get thee to a doctor! Get it checked out, get the lecture about what you can and can't do for the next few weeks, maybe get taped up to limit movement, and just be glad it's February, not June. Even Evil Overlords can have down-time... -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 10 11:34:05 2004 Subject: Re: Interesting From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 10 Feb 2004 11:30:28 -0500 On Tue, 2004-02-10 at 11:19, Mike Bartman wrote: > At 08:53 AM 2/10/04 -0500, Carl Schelin wrote: > >I gotta say. Having an apparent[0] cracked rib sure makes for an > > >[0] Feels like a knife in my back. Arm movement is painful. Coughing and > >even talking is a bit painful. Heaven help me if I sneeze. > > Have you seen a doctor? If not, why not? > It was ok up until last night when it got really painful. It's been pretty painful this morning as well and I'm considering dropping by Kaiser just to confirm and perhaps get it realigned if necessary. > At your age (and mine) a cracked rib is less likely than a broken one. > Acting like all is normal when you have a broken rib can result in a > punctured lung. Oh I'm not acting at _all_ like normal right now. > That not only gets you an ambulance ride and is > potentially life-threatening (particularly if you happen to be on the bike > at the time), it also extends your recovery period (i.e. non-riding time). > That's the other reason I want to stop in. I'd rather not be hating this 20 years down the road. > Get thee to a doctor! Get it checked out, get the lecture about what you > can and can't do for the next few weeks, maybe get taped up to limit > movement, and just be glad it's February, not June. > No taping as far as I can tell (see subsequent message) but I think I will drop by, just for a look-see. > Even Evil Overlords can have down-time... > That's when I have one of my evil overlord clones wander around. I'll be over here in this hole reading usenet :-) > -- Mike B. > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 10 12:29:00 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 12:28:48 EST Subject: Re: better thread repair system To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 2/10/2004 11:34:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, garicao@XXXXXX writes: (off list) > Could you give us a quick comparison? (Note: It has been a while) Time Serts are basically a tube with threads on both the inside and outside, the inside threads are the same size as the old stripped ones (assuming you are using the correct one #:-) They are slightly larger in diameter then Heli Coils which can be critical, remember that with both systems you need to drill out and tap the original hole and this can leave precious little of the original material to support the new threads. Motorcycles in order to be a light as possible tend to have relatively thin case walls. Heli coils are like little springs, in fact you can stretch them out just like a spring, there is no wall between the threads like a Time Sert so they are thinner. Time Serts are easier to install, a little more straight forward. Drill, tap, insert, it is hard to make a mistake. I LOVE Time Sert spark plug repair inserts, but you _must_ use the correct ones. Heli Coils are a little trickier to install. drill, tap, insert, break off the tab. But it is easy to miss-install the coil (the insert tool is harder to use) and you have the little _hardened_ steel tab that CANNOT be allowed to drop into the engine or you are screwed. I like both systems and I have used both, it is a choice, like which 10mm wrench to use. It is nice to have a selection. Hope that helps. Loud pipes quell cells. 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 10 12:56:48 2004 Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 12:56:27 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Winter riding joy I am amazed that on a straight as I roll over black ice at speed, the bike gets the jimmy legs. I suppose it is just torque acting on the rear wheel as I pass over it. Makes for fun riding. It is great outside. I love Winter - it makes me appreciate Summer. Riding normal speed Vertical bike passes curve slide, wobble, pucker ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 10 13:05:25 2004 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Reply-To: harry@XXXXXX Subject: admin, but not just nagging Content-ID: <8894.1076436309.1@XXXXXX> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 13:05:09 -0500 From: Harry Mantakos The list doesn't have a long list of rules, but one of the rules has been that messages related to buying/selling/giving must be: 1) motorcycle-related 2) subscriber personal property Note that "selling my star wars action figures", "selling my cousin's motorcycle", and anything related to a business are missing from this "okay" list. Sometimes, though, there are local businesses that would like to reach out to subscribers on the list. Sometimes they're nice enough to ask first, and I have to ask them not to use the list for this purpose. So the question posed: "Do we want to do anything to help provide local motorcycle businesses access to dc-cycles subscribers?" My two answers are either: 1) no, probably not enough interest to bother or possibly: 2) well, we could provide a separate list that interested dc-cycles subscribers could subscribe to, one which businesses could feel welcome to post to. The membership of this list would be anonymous, as with the regular dc-cycles list (i.e. there's no way to "fetch" the subscriber list, though you do "out" yourself when posting, as the list is archived publicly). Anybody with views on this topic, please reply to me directly (not to the list). My guess that there's not enough interest (on either side) to make this worthwhile, but I thought I'd ask any way. -harry From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 10 13:57:44 2004 Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 13:54:12 -0500 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Interesting At 11:30 AM 2/10/04 -0500, Carl Schelin wrote: >On Tue, 2004-02-10 at 11:19, Mike Bartman wrote: >> That not only gets you an ambulance ride and is >> potentially life-threatening (particularly if you happen to be on the bike >> at the time), it also extends your recovery period (i.e. non-riding time). > >That's the other reason I want to stop in. I'd rather not be hating this >20 years down the road. Good thinking. No sense turning acute injury into a chronic one. >> Get thee to a doctor! Get it checked out, get the lecture about what you >> can and can't do for the next few weeks, maybe get taped up to limit >> movement, and just be glad it's February, not June. > >No taping as far as I can tell (see subsequent message) but I think I >will drop by, just for a look-see. They don't tape as much as they used to, but I'm guessing it will depend on a bunch of factors (age, activity level, location and type of break, etc.). Trying to use the web as a substitute for actual medical advice from someone who's examined you isn't smart. On the Aikido list I was on there were doctors and RNs, and even when they could ask questions and get answers they were usually unwilling to try to make a diagnosis or give treatment advice for injuries...they wanted to examine the patient themselves first. The most they would do is suggest whether it was something that required treatment immediately, could be delayed if it didn't get any worse, or could be self-medicated without too much risk...though they always put in the caveat that they were just going by what they'd been told and couldn't be sure without actual examination. These people also went to *other* doctors when they got injured themselves...there's a saying about doctors who have themselves as patients... >> Even Evil Overlords can have down-time... > >That's when I have one of my evil overlord clones wander around. I'll be >over here in this hole reading usenet :-) Yeah, just think of it as planning time for your next evil event. Whatever you do, don't go near a window! :^) -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 10 14:05:01 2004 Subject: Re: Interesting From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 10 Feb 2004 14:01:31 -0500 On Tue, 2004-02-10 at 13:54, Mike Bartman wrote: > Yeah, just think of it as planning time for your next evil event. Whatever > you do, don't go near a window! :^) > "Go to the Win-dow. Go to the Win-dow. Go to the Win-dow." > -- Mike B. (just a quick dredge through memory, and I have it on DVD ;-) Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 10 14:19:51 2004 From: To: Subject: VX800 For Sale Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 14:19:28 -0500 A friend has a '91 VX800 that he isn't riding that he would prefer to see being ridden than to rot away (that, and scarf up on a few bucks). He's asking $1,800 as is or around 2,300 if he takes it into a shop to have them do a Spring Cleaning on it. Bike is red and in overall good condition. Contact Jim Kowalke @ jkowalke@XXXXXX if interested. Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 10 14:25:23 2004 Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 14:25:18 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: cvkgpena@XXXXXX Reply-To: cvkgpena@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Bike Grab for sale UNPAID ENDORSEMENT: I have one of these and it's great. A C-note is a good deal. Chuck -----Original Message----- From: Gary Foreman Sent: Feb 8, 2004 12:36 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Bike Grab for sale I have two of these, only need one now. http://www.bike-grab.com/ $100 if I don't have to ship it! Live in Winchester, Work in Leesburg. Gary From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 10 14:28:21 2004 From: To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Bike Grab for sale Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 14:28:14 -0500 Hey Gary! Did you already sell it? I was second in line IIRC. -aki > > From: cvkgpena@XXXXXX > Date: 2004/02/10 Tue PM 02:25:18 EST > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Bike Grab for sale > > UNPAID ENDORSEMENT: > > I have one of these and it's great. A C-note is a good deal. > > Chuck > > -----Original Message----- > From: Gary Foreman > Sent: Feb 8, 2004 12:36 PM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Bike Grab for sale > > I have two of these, only need one now. > > http://www.bike-grab.com/ > > $100 if I don't have to ship it! > > Live in Winchester, Work in Leesburg. > > Gary > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 10 14:46:25 2004 Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 11:46:08 -0800 (PST) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: Bike Grab for sale To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I'm still wondering if its for sale, I replied within hours and never heard back from Gary. Glenn --- cvkgpena@XXXXXX wrote: > UNPAID ENDORSEMENT: > > I have one of these and it's great. A C-note is a > good deal. > > Chuck > > -----Original Message----- > From: Gary Foreman > Sent: Feb 8, 2004 12:36 PM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Bike Grab for sale > > I have two of these, only need one now. > > http://www.bike-grab.com/ > > $100 if I don't have to ship it! > > Live in Winchester, Work in Leesburg. > > Gary > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 10 14:51:48 2004 Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 14:51:39 -0500 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: red light turn X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 I believe that is it permissable to make a left turn on red after waiting for so many minutes/cycles for the light to turn. After specified amount of time, if signal still has not changed, you are permitted to proceed if there is no oncoming traffic. Don't quote me on that though. Just dredging up what I recall from Drivers Ed in Pennsyltuckey. :-) The fact that a cop was so readily available to pull you over and give you a ticket stinks of setup to me. As for how to plead, not sure. Guilty with extenuating circumstances? I'm sure the lawyers on the list (Tom) will be able to help. Scooter In a message dated 2/10/2004 10:04:13 AM Eastern Standard Time, Robert.Verde@XXXXXX writes: > > > I suspect the official position is that you should have made three right turns, not the one left... Still, this seems to entail illegal driving as well, as I'm sure it's not legal to pull out of a turn lane while at the light. > > I have had some luck with thumbing the starter button while parking right over one of the sensor lines in the pavement, this will usually trigger the traffic signal. Not always, though, and I have waited through entire cycles of lights until a cage pulled up behind me. > > Best of luck on the legal front! > > Robert > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lurking [mailto:lurking444@XXXXXX] > Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 8:55 AM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: dc-cycles digest for 02/09/04 > > > Question for those more experienced than I: > > Last night, I was riding my bike and was sitting in a left turn only lane. I waited > through an entire cycle of the light, and it was obvious to me that the sensor in the road > didn't detect myself or my motorcycle. I pushed the bike backward and forward a few feet > hoping to trip the sensor. After waiting for at least 4 full minutes, I saw there was no > oncoming traffic and made the left turn (through lanes had green, but my left turn light > was red). I was pulled over by a Fairfax County cop and got a ticket for disregarding a > red light. What should my plea be when I appear at the courthouse on March 17? I was > thinking not guilty, but I am going to testify to exactly what happened (as I describe > here). I'd like to get the charge dismissed, since it was obvious that I wasn't > disregarding the light, however I did drive (ride) through a red light. Should I plea > guilty and explain the circumstances? If I plea guilty, that removes any chance of having > the charge dismissed, correct? I really was amazed that the officer cited me, after I > explained exactly what happened. Fairfax County is tough! > > ===== > "If we had no winter, the spring would not be so pleasant: if we did not sometimes taste of adversity, prosperity would > not be so welcome." -Anne Bradstreet From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 10 15:34:30 2004 Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 15:50:51 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Re: Bike Grab for sale On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 adamme1@XXXXXX wrote: > Hey Gary! Did you already sell it? I was second in line > IIRC. > > -aki I'll be picking it up from Gary tomorrow. :-) -- Wayne 'first in line' ;-) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 10 16:19:19 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 16:19:14 EST Subject: Re: Winter riding joy To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 2/10/2004 12:57:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, mike@XXXXXX writes: > I am amazed that on a straight as I roll over black ice at speed, the bike > gets the jimmy legs Even when just riding in a straight line at steady speed there is quite a lot of drive pressure on the rear wheel just to maintain your speed so ideally* you should squeeze the clutch (disengaging the engine) and coast over the ice. Coasting removes drive pressure (or drag if you roll off the throttle) resulting in the maximum traction available for control, as in staying right side up. My clutch lever gets one hell of a workout during cold weather, if I even think there may be ice in comes the lever. *MSF teaching Loud pipes quell cells. 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 10 17:03:27 2004 Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 17:03:31 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: Winter riding joy Mr. Patton suggested the same. I *would* do that if I could see the black ice :-) Fortunately, at 51F outside right now, I think I should have an ice free ride home. At 04:19 PM 2/10/2004, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: >ideally* >you should squeeze the clutch (disengaging the engine) and coast over the >ice. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 10 17:23:07 2004 Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 14:23:05 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Interesting To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > > > >No taping as far as I can tell (see subsequent message) but I think I > >will drop by, just for a look-see. > > They don't tape as much as they used to, but I'm guessing it will depend > on a bunch of factors (age, activity level, location and type of break, > etc.). Trying to use the web as a substitute for actual medical advice > from someone who's examined you isn't smart. > Just got back from the docs. X-rays and all. No breaks or even fractures. She's supposing a soft-tissue injury but can't explain why it all of a sudden hurt like hell last night and again today. She did say it was pretty difficult to break a rib. This time we were able to examine the bones and a portion of my backbone and it all looks real healthy, for which I'm pleased. For the pain, he's recommending a heating pad and Motrin or something similar (and I can't remember what I just took; arrggh). > > -- Mike B. > Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 10 17:27:33 2004 Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 14:27:30 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Chopper fender query To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I have an 8.25" wheel well on the chopper frame (15"r). The width is fairly custom (7.5 and 8.5 being common), however someone on the chopper website said that the stainless steel covers that are on the spare tires of conversion vans would fit just fine. Anyone have a spare one kicking around? Anyone have one they can measure real quick? I was going to hit the junkyard this weekend and see what I can find but I thought I'd ask real quick. I'm looking for a nice smooth flat one with rounded edges. I saw one on the way home that had some sort of groove around it and another one that was about 5" wide. Thanks. Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 10 17:58:54 2004 Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 17:58:46 -0500 To: Troutman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Winter riding joy At 05:03 PM 2/10/04 -0500, Troutman wrote: >Mr. Patton suggested the same. I *would* do that if I could see the black >ice :-) > >Fortunately, at 51F outside right now, I think I should have an ice free >ride home. Got home from a short ride about 4:30 and all I saw was wet. A lot of salt though...glad it's going to be warm enough to wash it off in the next day or two... -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 10 18:04:39 2004 Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 18:03:38 -0500 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Interesting At 02:23 PM 2/10/04 -0800, Carl Schelin wrote: >Just got back from the docs. X-rays and all. No breaks or even fractures. >She's supposing a soft-tissue injury but can't explain why it all of a >sudden hurt like hell last night and again today. Great news! Sounds like it's probably a pulled or bruised muscle. Maybe you did something to agravate it yesterday? In any case, if that's what it is, you should be fine in a week or two, right? Much better than a couple of months! >For the pain, he's recommending a heating pad and Motrin or something >similar (and I can't remember what I just took; arrggh). Yeah, and take it easy. When you pull a muscle, a lot of the pain comes from the other muscles in the area that cramp up to limit movement while the torn one heals. Heat helps relax them, as well as increasing blood flow to the area by opening up the capillaries. Even when the meds and heat reduce the pain, don't stop taking it easy, or you'll make it worse. Just lay back and take some time to rest for a week or so and you'll be happier in the long run. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 10 18:33:41 2004 Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 18:33:51 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: Winter riding joy At 05:58 PM 2/10/2004, Mike Bartman wrote: > >Fortunately, at 51F outside right now, I think I should have an ice free > >ride home. > >Got home from a short ride about 4:30 and all I saw was wet. A lot of salt >though...glad it's going to be warm enough to wash it off in the next day >or two... FYI - I was wrong. 4 major ice patches in the shady Clifton back road area. Beautiful riding weather. _____________________________________ Mike Troutman mike@XXXXXX http://www.troutman.org/vfr '97 Honda VFR 750 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 10 18:47:57 2004 Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 18:47:54 -0500 To: Troutman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Winter riding joy At 06:33 PM 2/10/04 -0500, Troutman wrote: >At 05:58 PM 2/10/2004, Mike Bartman wrote: >>Got home from a short ride about 4:30 and all I saw was wet. A lot of salt >>though...glad it's going to be warm enough to wash it off in the next day >>or two... > >FYI - I was wrong. 4 major ice patches in the shady Clifton back road >area. Beautiful riding weather. Gorgeous. Best part is, it's supposed to stay this way through the weekend! That should finish off the snow and ice (only examples of which I found were in my driveway, and only a little bit there), and let everyone get their bikes loosened up and reset for another couple of weeks of crappy weather (snow predicted early next week, but who knows about a 10 day forecast?) -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 10 18:53:27 2004 From: "Michael Jordan" To: Subject: RE: red light turn Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 18:53:18 -0500 A tip that I received from the Virginia DMV was to kill your engine and restart it. The electrical activity close to the sensor wire may wake it up - obviously, you want to be stopped over one of the wire cuts and not stopped between them. Another thing that I have heard is to drop your sidestand or centerstand so that it touches the cut - again, it's bring ferrous metal closer to the loop. I haven't tried either Pity that they can't seem to adjust the sensors properly YMMV Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 10 18:57:33 2004 Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 19:01:00 -0500 Subject: Gasoline gasket recommendation? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "garcia oliver" So...what are folks using for gasket goop where there is regular contact with gasoline? I've used Permatex-2 and Permatex Aviation Gasket, but am not satisfied with either. Hylomar seems to work better, but I haven't found anyone who carries it locally. I'm about out of my last tube and will mail-order some more unless someone knows something better. Thanks. --garcia "In coming months, politicians will flail about looking for freedoms to eliminate to 'curb the terrorist threat'. We must remember throughout that you cannot preserve freedom by eliminating it." Perry Metzger (Reminds me of the famous earlier reference to a Vietnamese village: "We had to destroy it in order to save it.") From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 10 19:11:59 2004 Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 19:15:27 -0500 Subject: Carb cleaner (dip) recommendation? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "garcia oliver" And while we're at it, anyone have a recommendation for a dip-type carb cleaner that doesn't kill rubber and plastic parts? The stuff I use has chromic acid and crotylic acid (as I recall). It works, but is very nasty to handle, and eats rubber/plastic. Thanks. --garcia ^[)BM-^SA patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government.^[)BM-^T Edward Abbey From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 10 20:20:47 2004 Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 20:37:08 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Carb cleaner (dip) recommendation? On Tue, 10 Feb 2004, garcia oliver wrote: > And while we're at it, anyone have a recommendation for a dip-type carb > cleaner that doesn't kill rubber and plastic parts? > > The stuff I use has chromic acid and crotylic acid (as I recall). It > works, but is very nasty to handle, and eats rubber/plastic. > > Thanks. Have you looked into throttle body cleaner? Similar to carb cleaner, but a bit less caustic. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 10 22:01:27 2004 Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 22:00:06 -0500 To: "Michael Jordan" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: red light turn At 06:53 PM 2/10/04 -0500, Michael Jordan wrote: >A tip that I received from the Virginia DMV was to kill your engine and >restart it. The electrical activity close to the sensor wire may wake it up >- obviously, you want to be stopped over one of the wire cuts and not >stopped between them. Sounds like a coil of wire and a big capacitor charged from the bike's electrical system should get the damn thing's attention...make it think a semi just fell on it! -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 10 22:24:09 2004 Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 19:24:05 -0800 (PST) From: John Kozyn Subject: Looking for... To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Hey DC Guys 'n Gals, I'm looking for a carburetor adjusting screwdriver to synchronize the carbs on my VFR. I have one of those long, flexible spring-type adjusting tools, but it really isn't very functional on the VFR. In fact, it's a huge pain in the ass. The tool I'm thinking of has a 45 degree end, is rigid, and you can turn it at the handle. I only need it to have or to accept a small flat screwdriver bit. Anyone have one I can borrow (I'm in Arlington) for a day or two? Please e-mail directly if you do, thanks! JK (D-mode) 1995 VFR750F 1999 900SS __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 11 00:44:08 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 00:43:58 EST Subject: Re: Winter riding joy To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 2/10/2004 5:03:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, mike@XXXXXX writes: > I *would* do that if I could see the black > ice :-) > Ahh Grasshopper, but I said "if I even think there may be ice in comes the lever." Bridges, overpasses, shady spots, if ice is likely in comes the lever. And by the way I have never _not_ seen "black ice" if it is slippery it is shiny. I have hit ice unexpectedly in my wife's cage, but that had more to do with not paying enough attention then invisibility. (did get really sideways right in front of a cop last snowstorm.... He did nothing.) On the bike I tend to pay more attention. In the late summer or early fall I start to look for places where I may find ice during the winter, spots on the road that tend to be wet, bridges, overpasses, shady spots. I scope them out _way_ before winter. I do not like surprises. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 11 00:48:47 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 00:48:41 EST Subject: Re: red light turn To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 2/10/2004 6:53:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, mjordan812@XXXXXX writes: > Another thing that I have heard is to drop your sidestand or centerstand so > that it touches the cut - again, it's bring ferrous metal closer to the > loop. I have, no joy. I even attached a magnet to the sidestand once to see if that would help. No luck. In NC I had a number to call and report them and they would come out and fix the problem. Here I do not know. Loud pipes quell cells. 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 11 00:51:02 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 00:50:51 EST Subject: Re: Gasoline gasket recommendation? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 2/10/2004 6:57:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, garicao@XXXXXX writes: > So...what are folks using for gasket goop where there is regular contact > with gasoline? Nothing. Where would you use sealer in contact with fuel? John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 11 02:37:15 2004 Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 02:40:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Gasoline gasket recommendation? To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "garcia oliver" "...regular contact with gasoline" was imprecise. I apply gasket material (dressing) to used carb float bowl gaskets. Also some carb intake rubbers have gaskets, as do some petcock/tank mating surfaces. --garcia PenguinBiker@XXXXXX writes: >n a message dated 2/10/2004 6:57:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, >garicao@XXXXXX writes: > >> So...what are folks using for gasket goop where there is regular contact >> with gasoline? > >Nothing. >Where would you use sealer in contact with fuel? > >John. >PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 11 02:42:57 2004 Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 02:46:24 -0500 Subject: Re: Carb cleaner (dip) recommendation? To: Wayne Edelen Cc: From: "garcia oliver" Throttle body cleaner may be fine for carbs on running vehicles. However, I'm looking for something that will dissolve varnish (but not rubber and lungs) on carbs that have been sitting for months or years. --garcia Wayne Edelen writes: > Tue, 10 Feb 2004, garcia oliver wrote: > >> And while we're at it, anyone have a recommendation for a dip-type carb >> cleaner that doesn't kill rubber and plastic parts? >> >> The stuff I use has chromic acid and crotylic acid (as I recall). It >> works, but is very nasty to handle, and eats rubber/plastic. >> >> Thanks. > >Have you looked into throttle body cleaner? Similar to carb cleaner, but >a bit less caustic. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 11 07:22:48 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 07:22:35 EST Subject: Re: Gasoline gasket recommendation? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 2/11/2004 2:37:16 AM Eastern Standard Time, garicao@XXXXXX writes: > Also some carb intake rubbers > have gaskets, as do some petcock/tank mating surfaces. But those usually (always?) have rubber "O" rings imbedded in them "O" rings that always are made of fuel resistant material and if worn (flattened out) can simply and cheaply be replaced. I have never (note 8 yrs. as a full time professional motorcycle mechanic) used sealer on any of the items you mentioned. Sealer on rubber parts (OK neoprene) can actually act like a lubricant allowing them to shift or even pop out of place altogether (a common problem with the older GS series valve cover gaskets, use sealer and they _will_ pop out of place.) And even a slight over use in the fuel system could result in gasket material flaking off and plugging tiny fuel passages with material that by design is not likely to be removed by carburetor cleaners. If your shop manual does not call for sealer I would not use any. If it does ignore the above. Loud pipes quell cells. 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 11 08:42:59 2004 From: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" To: "'Carl Schelin'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Interesting Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 08:42:45 -0500 I know that all too well I cracked my rib a month ago and went to the international bike show and getting on and off a bike was quite painful. -----Original Message----- From: Carl Schelin [mailto:cschelin@XXXXXX] Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 8:54 AM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Interesting I gotta say. Having an apparent[0] cracked rib sure makes for an interesting and slightly distracting ride. I did ride a bit more sedately and getting on the bike was an excercise in slowness. But it's too nice not to ride. Carl [0] Feels like a knife in my back. Arm movement is painful. Coughing and even talking is a bit painful. Heaven help me if I sneeze. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 11 08:52:11 2004 Subject: RE: Interesting Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 08:54:27 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: "Mike Bartman" , "Carl Schelin" , Take it easy. I always use the old standby: Rest Ice Compression Elevation I am mot a big fan of heat pads. I also recommend massage\chiropractor or some combo thereof- never tried it for ribs but having the spine adjusted correctly seems to do wonders for my torso muscles. How did this happen again? Missed initial post. -----Original Message----- From: Mike Bartman [mailto:omni@XXXXXX] Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 6:04 PM To: Carl Schelin; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Interesting At 02:23 PM 2/10/04 -0800, Carl Schelin wrote: >Just got back from the docs. X-rays and all. No breaks or even fractures. >She's supposing a soft-tissue injury but can't explain why it all of a >sudden hurt like hell last night and again today. Great news! Sounds like it's probably a pulled or bruised muscle. Maybe you did something to agravate it yesterday? In any case, if that's what it is, you should be fine in a week or two, right? Much better than a couple of months! >For the pain, he's recommending a heating pad and Motrin or something >similar (and I can't remember what I just took; arrggh). Yeah, and take it easy. When you pull a muscle, a lot of the pain comes from the other muscles in the area that cramp up to limit movement while the torn one heals. Heat helps relax them, as well as increasing blood flow to the area by opening up the capillaries. Even when the meds and heat reduce the pain, don't stop taking it easy, or you'll make it worse. Just lay back and take some time to rest for a week or so and you'll be happier in the long run. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 11 09:03:28 2004 From: To: Subject: Re: RE: Interesting Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 9:03:21 -0500 Having cracked/bruised more than one rib in my younger days when I took Shotokan, I can attest to the fact that the best thing you can do is to take it easy and let it heal on its own. Prescription pain meds like Tylenol 3 help too. Advil helps, Motrin helps. If you can, get the prescription strength Motrin from the doc, that helps as well. If you have any inflammation, get thee some anti-inflammatory meds from the doc. But mostly, it's a long process to heal. I definately wouldn't recommend any motocross riding. ;-) And *whatever* you do, try to avoid: Sneezing. Laughing hard and taking really big, deep breaths. 8-P And common sense dictates, don't do any activity that will aggrivate the situation. Getting a cracked or bruised rib kicked REALLY hurts (don't ask). -aki > > From: "Julian Halton" > Date: 2004/02/11 Wed AM 08:54:27 EST > To: "Mike Bartman" , "Carl Schelin" , > > Subject: RE: Interesting > > Take it easy. I always use the old standby: > Rest > Ice > Compression > Elevation > > I am mot a big fan of heat pads. I also recommend massage\chiropractor > or some combo thereof- never tried it for ribs but having the spine > adjusted correctly seems to do wonders for my torso muscles. How did > this happen again? Missed initial post. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Bartman [mailto:omni@XXXXXX] > Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 6:04 PM > To: Carl Schelin; dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Interesting > > At 02:23 PM 2/10/04 -0800, Carl Schelin wrote: > > >Just got back from the docs. X-rays and all. No breaks or even > fractures. > >She's supposing a soft-tissue injury but can't explain why it all of a > >sudden hurt like hell last night and again today. > > Great news! Sounds like it's probably a pulled or bruised muscle. > Maybe you did something to agravate it yesterday? In any case, if > that's what it is, you should be fine in a week or two, right? Much > better than a couple of months! > > >For the pain, he's recommending a heating pad and Motrin or something > >similar (and I can't remember what I just took; arrggh). > > Yeah, and take it easy. When you pull a muscle, a lot of the pain comes > from the other muscles in the area that cramp up to limit movement while > the torn one heals. Heat helps relax them, as well as increasing blood > flow to the area by opening up the capillaries. Even when the meds and > heat reduce the pain, don't stop taking it easy, or you'll make it > worse. > Just lay back and take some time to rest for a week or so and you'll be > happier in the long run. > > -- Mike B. > > '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley > folks) > > Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's > mistakes is better. > > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 11 09:12:41 2004 Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 09:12:29 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Calvin Ledford Reply-to: Subject: RE: red light turn... X-vsuite-type: e I'm not an attorney, but believe that the following might help. It is always good to know the traffic code before going into court - I won a once case because I knew the code better then the Commonwealth's attorney... I've heard the rumor that if the light is steady red for longer then X minutes you can turn - but after a quick review I don't see anything in the Virginia traffic code to support that. (see attached below) ^[)BM-' 46.2-836 might be an out - I'm not sure what "notwithstanding" is supposed to mean with regard to 46.2-833 - but if there wasn't a sign stating no left turn on red ^[)BM-' 46.2-836 might be a defense. I'd suggest taking a copy of this thread and searching the internet for a few more to support an assertion that red light sensors frequently don't work for motorcycles due to the very small amount of ferrous metal in comparison to cars - I know I've seen a number of references to the issue. Try the AMA. Also, if the "right turn, uturn" issue comes up - I'd say that once in the left turning lane, you would be doing something at least as dangerous if not illegal also by then attempting to turn right - so mention that also. Then use ^[)BM-' 46.2-836 and common sense to ply the judge. (Print out a copy of it also) He likely won't find on your behalf - (as a former cop) I've always said it's easier to get off a murder rap that you did, then get cut loose on a traffic charge you didn't - but at least you won^[)BM-^Rt be wasting money on an attorney. Another thing to try is to corner the Commonwealth's Attorney before the trial and ask to plea to a lesser (non-moving) violation - it would help to have one in mind. I think they like ones that have similar fines and could (even if it's a stretch) cover your charge. Don't be nervous or shy - the attorneys do it all of the time and you have every bit as much right to do it on your own behalf - getting up the courage to approach the guy is half the battle. In PW county the Judge will actually suggest that you do stop and talk a plea with the Commonwealth's Attorney before trial - and the CA will sit outside the courtroom (usually with a line waiting to speak with him) for a few minutes in the morning - speaking with everyone who wishes to talk with him. Just remember there is a fine line, you want to say enough to get him to agree to cut you a deal (referencing code is useful - it helps to show that you've done your homework and won^[)BM-^Rt go down easy - in the end it's not about them winning or losing (they almost always win) but getting you paid up and gone as quick as possible - they do have other things to attend to and locking legal horns with lay people is usually pretty frustrating for them as it takes about 10 additional minutes per trial), but do not provide enough that he can use information against you if you decide to plead not guilty and have a trial. Don't bother with a "guilty with explanation" in VA - it is a waste of time and usually pisses of the Judges in the over crowded Fairfax courts. If you decide to plead guilty just pay the fine during the pre-pay period - or you'll be facing additional court costs for nothing. In MD judges can award "Parole before Judgment" (PBJ) and can suspend points (the real goal) - that doesn't happen in VA - so if you plan on pleading guilty in hopes of leniency you're wasting your time and additional funds. Also, it seems that in court they place a WHOLE lot of weight on past driving record when doling out the penalties. If you've already got a couple demerit points you could be looking at a MUCH larger fine then just paying things out right. Bringing up the fact that the cop was probably "staking" out the light might not help, but hurt. He was probably doing just that - knowing that cars and bikes alike (it's not like he was out this time of year hoping to catch a biker) would eventually turn on red due to an excessive wait. Let us know how it turns out. I found the attached info at: http://www.findlaw.com/11stategov/va/laws.html under the "Code of Virginia" link. From there you can either search, or click on "table of contents" to see everything. You want to look at Title 46.2. -Calvin '00VFR800 ^[)BM-' 46.2-833. Traffic lights. A. Signals by traffic lights shall be as follows: Steady red indicates that moving traffic shall stop and remain stopped as long as the red signal is shown, except in the direction indicated by a lighted green arrow. Green indicates the traffic shall move in the direction of the signal and remain in motion as long as the green signal is given, except that such traffic shall yield to other vehicles and pedestrians lawfully within the intersection. Steady amber indicates that a change is about to be made in the direction of the moving of traffic. When the amber signal is shown, traffic which has not already entered the intersection, including the crosswalks, shall stop if it is not reasonably safe to continue, but traffic which has already entered the intersection shall continue to move until the intersection has been cleared. The amber signal is a warning that the steady red signal is imminent. Flashing red indicates that traffic shall stop before entering an intersection. Flashing amber indicates that traffic may proceed through the intersection or past such signal with reasonable care under the circumstances. B. The driver of any motor vehicle may be detained for a violation of this section if the detaining law-enforcement officer is in uniform, displays his badge of authority, and (i) has observed the violation or (ii) has received a radio message from another law-enforcement officer who observed the violation. In the case of a person being detained based on a radio message, the message shall be sent immediately after the violation is observed, and the observing officer shall furnish the license number or other positive identification of the vehicle to the detaining officer. ^[)BM-' 46.2-836. Left turn on steady red after stopping. Notwithstanding the provisions of ^[)BM-' 46.2-833, except where signs are placed prohibiting turns on steady red, vehicular traffic facing a steady red signal on a one-way highway, after coming to a full stop, may cautiously enter the intersection and make a left turn onto another one-way highway. Such turning traffic shall yield the right-of-way to pedestrians lawfully within an adjacent crosswalk and to other traffic using the intersection. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 11 09:14:32 2004 Subject: RE: Interesting From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 11 Feb 2004 09:10:59 -0500 On Wed, 2004-02-11 at 08:54, Julian Halton wrote: > Take it easy. I always use the old standby: > Rest > Ice > Compression > Elevation > I normally take it easy anyway ;-) I'll be dragging the frame and assorted parts over to Kevin's on Saturday but that's about the extent of my movements. > I am mot a big fan of heat pads. I also recommend massage\chiropractor > or some combo thereof- never tried it for ribs but having the spine > adjusted correctly seems to do wonders for my torso muscles. How did > this happen again? Missed initial post. > Rita's a Licensed Massage Therapist (in New York) so she worked me over. It didn't seem to make a difference in _reducing_ the pain :-) It's possible it's a torn muscle/separation. It's better today and I can use it as an excuse not to change the cat litter (which I did every day while she had the flu so it balances out). (And before you get all worked up on Rita being a LMT, this is only the second time she's put me on her table and worked me over. She normally instructs me in the best way to massage her.) Oh, to answer your last question. Last week when everything was iced up, I decided to use Rita's car and while trying to get in, I slid and slipped landing on my back. Painful initally but it was getting less sore however Monday night the pain significantly increased for no apparant reason. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 11 09:45:26 2004 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'DCCycles'" Subject: Interesting Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 09:50:44 -0500 to Evil Carl's "I gotta say. Having an apparent[0] cracked rib sure makes for an Coughing and even talking is a bit painful. Heaven help me if I sneeze." Mother Bartman cooed "Have you seen a doctor? If not, why not?" Awww, I say, lets all send Evil Carl our best jokes and rib ticklers. 8^> Bwahahaha Uhh, for pneumonia prophylaxis, not costal chafing. [CS]: Just got back from the docs. X-rays and all. No breaks or even fractures. She's supposing a soft-tissue injury but can't explain why it all of a sudden hurt like hell last night and again today. She did say it was pretty difficult to break a rib. [CC]: Hah, piece of cake to break ribs. Just low side your bike on east Capitol (4 ribs) or T-bone a left-turning truck on 14th (3). And that was when I was just a kid in my forty's. [CS]: For the pain, he's recommending a heating pad and Motrin or something similar (and I can't remember what I just took; arrggh). [CC]: Then it musta been the Good Stuff (TM) Heal well and quickly. Carl in Bethesda From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 11 09:54:22 2004 Subject: Re: Interesting From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 11 Feb 2004 09:50:53 -0500 On Wed, 2004-02-11 at 09:50, Custer, Carl wrote: > to Evil Carl's > "I gotta say. Having an apparent[0] cracked rib sure makes for an > Coughing and even talking is a bit painful. Heaven help me if I sneeze." > > Mother Bartman cooed "Have you seen a doctor? If not, why not?" > > Awww, I say, lets all send Evil Carl our best jokes and rib ticklers. 8^> > Bwahahaha Uhh, for pneumonia prophylaxis, not costal chafing. > Yea well, I got this from the boss: =============== Heee Heee banged up baby fat!!!! Yeaaa,,, maybe it is lack of something above the shoulders,,,, broken ribs did not stop me from skiing!!! Damn what a fool!!! =============== I'm not _quite_ sure how to take it, but I'll take it humorously :-/ > [CS]: Just got back from the docs. X-rays and all. No breaks or even > fractures. She's supposing a soft-tissue injury but can't explain why it all > of a sudden hurt like hell last night and again today. > She did say it was pretty difficult to break a rib. > > [CC]: Hah, piece of cake to break ribs. Just low side your bike on east > Capitol (4 ribs) or T-bone a left-turning truck on 14th (3). And that was > when I was just a kid in my forty's. > I have gone over the back of a pick-up but still nothing more than broken toes and some ripped up flesh. > [CS]: For the pain, he's recommending a heating pad and Motrin or something > similar (and I can't remember what I just took; arrggh). > > [CC]: Then it musta been the Good Stuff (TM) > Heal well and quickly. Or bad memory. I still can't remember. Ah well. > > Carl in Bethesda > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 11 10:55:40 2004 Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 10:54:35 -0500 To: "Custer, Carl" , "'DCCycles'" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Interesting At 09:50 AM 2/11/04 -0500, Custer, Carl wrote: >Mother Bartman cooed "Have you seen a doctor? If not, why not?" > >Awww, I say, lets all send Evil Carl our best jokes and rib ticklers. 8^> >Bwahahaha Uhh, for pneumonia prophylaxis, not costal chafing. Are you trying to take over the title of Evil Overlord Carl? Or do we need another Evil title? -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 11 11:00:04 2004 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'Mike Bartman'" , "'DCCycles'" Subject: RE: Interesting Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 11:04:57 -0500 Are you trying to take over the title of Evil Overlord Carl? Or do we need another Evil title? Nah, How about Mischievous Carl? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 11 11:04:02 2004 Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 11:03:58 -0500 To: "Custer, Carl" , "'DCCycles'" From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: Interesting At 11:04 AM 2/11/04 -0500, Custer, Carl wrote: > >Are you trying to take over the title of Evil Overlord Carl? Or do we need >another Evil title? > >Nah, How about Mischievous Carl? Works for me, but it's a lot harder to spell than "Bad Carl"... :^) -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 11 11:04:26 2004 Subject: Re: Interesting From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 11 Feb 2004 11:00:57 -0500 On Wed, 2004-02-11 at 10:54, Mike Bartman wrote: > At 09:50 AM 2/11/04 -0500, Custer, Carl wrote: > > >Mother Bartman cooed "Have you seen a doctor? If not, why not?" > > > >Awww, I say, lets all send Evil Carl our best jokes and rib ticklers. 8^> > >Bwahahaha Uhh, for pneumonia prophylaxis, not costal chafing. > > Are you trying to take over the title of Evil Overlord Carl? Or do we need > another Evil title? > Hey. _I'm_ Evil Overlord Carl. He's Carl in Bethesda (or Brrrrthesda depending on the time of year ;-) > > > -- Mike B. > Evil Overlord Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 11 11:11:32 2004 From: "LindaT." To: "Dc-Cycles" Subject: RE: Interesting Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 11:10:35 -0500 I cracked a rib or two on day 2 of my cross country trip last August. It hurt a lot and I squeezed all possible sympathy points out of it when I checked into various motels. "Can I PLEASE have a ground floor room as I have a cracked rib and it hurts to carry stuff upstairs". Sniff, sniff, flutter, flutter. That worked pretty often. The first few days, I wrapped my ribs in ace bandages and velcro straps while I was riding. I was moving pretty slowly (while not riding) and deliberately. And taking lots of Advil. Laughing hurt, coughing was painful and sneezing was agony. It hurt for 6 weeks and finally went away. LindaT. http://www.customtankbags.com Now - TankBags for 1800 Wings Springfield, VA (suburb of our nation's capital) AMA IBA HSTA BMWBMW 99 R1100RT Mr. Buzzy 95 F3 Purple Haze 00 KLR250 Super Sherpa Tenzing From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 11 11:43:21 2004 Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 11:43:11 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: cledford@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: red light turn... The statute in question refers to a left turn on red from a one-way street to a one-way street. It's analogous to a right turn on red. It doesn't seem like it applies in this case. Paul in DC 95 VFR- 86 VF500F -----Original Message----- From: Calvin Ledford ... I've heard the rumor that if the light is steady red for longer then X minutes you can turn - but after a quick review I don't see anything in the Virginia traffic code to support that. (see attached below) ^[)BM-' 46.2-836 might be an out - I'm not sure what "notwithstanding" is supposed to mean with regard to 46.2-833 - but if there wasn't a sign stating no left turn on red ^[)BM-' 46.2-836 might be a defense. .... ^[)BM-' 46.2-836. Left turn on steady red after stopping. Notwithstanding the provisions of ^[)BM-' 46.2-833, except where signs are placed prohibiting turns on steady red, vehicular traffic facing a steady red signal on a one-way highway, after coming to a full stop, may cautiously enter the intersection and make a left turn onto another one-way highway. Such turning traffic shall yield the right-of-way to pedestrians lawfully within an adjacent crosswalk and to other traffic using the intersection. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 11 13:27:04 2004 Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 10:26:59 -0800 (PST) From: Leon Begeman Subject: RE: Interesting To: "Verde, Robert" , Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- "Verde, Robert" wrote: > It is nice out there, Carl, but I think you're > angling to get the loony rider crown away from Leon, > riding with a cracked rib! Saturday night on Aden road, I was leaned over in a curve, saw some water running across the road, and in the middle of it discovered that some of the water was ice. It was a gentle right curve, water was flowing from left to right, both wheels slid to the left when I hit the water and then recovered HARD after crossing it. I wasn't able to straighten the bike and fell down on the left side. I hit on my left side behind my arm and fractured four ribs. The CatScan also showed a partially collapsed lung and a mark of some kind on my spleen. They kept me in the hospital until Tuesday afternoon for observation. No treatment, just stay there. It's no wonder medical treatment in this country is so expensive. Years ago, I would have just gone home and taken it easy for a few weeks. Now after what happened to Pete Conrad (third person to walk on the moon) I figured it made sense to go in for x-rays and make sure. After this experience, I am less likely to go in for a checkup in the future. Anyway, short answer is that I'm confined to a cage for the next month or so. The paid trip is off, I'll be going to bike week in a cage but I will bring the bike along for the short rides around the area(or maybe I'll borrow when while I'm there.) So no matter what the weather in the next month, Leon didn't ride :-( Leon. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 11 13:31:15 2004 From: "Sean Steele" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 13:29:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Interesting X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information Yeah, scary story about Conrad: http://www.accidentreconstruction.com/news/jul99/070999a.html -Sean Leon Begeman wrote: > --- "Verde, Robert" wrote: > >>It is nice out there, Carl, but I think you're >>angling to get the loony rider crown away from Leon, >>riding with a cracked rib! > > > Saturday night on Aden road, I was leaned over in a > curve, saw some water running across the road, and in > the middle of it discovered that some of the water was > ice. > > It was a gentle right curve, water was flowing from > left to right, both wheels slid to the left when I hit > the water and then recovered HARD after crossing it. > I wasn't able to straighten the bike and fell down on > the left side. I hit on my left side behind my arm > and fractured four ribs. The CatScan also showed a > partially collapsed lung and a mark of some kind on my > spleen. > > They kept me in the hospital until Tuesday afternoon > for observation. No treatment, just stay there. It's > no wonder medical treatment in this country is so > expensive. Years ago, I would have just gone home and > taken it easy for a few weeks. Now after what > happened to Pete Conrad (third person to walk on the > moon) I figured it made sense to go in for x-rays and > make sure. After this experience, I am less likely to > go in for a checkup in the future. > > Anyway, short answer is that I'm confined to a cage > for the next month or so. The paid trip is off, I'll > be going to bike week in a cage but I will bring the > bike along for the short rides around the area(or > maybe I'll borrow when while I'm there.) > > So no matter what the weather in the next month, Leon > didn't ride :-( > > Leon. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 11 13:57:53 2004 Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 10:57:46 -0800 (PST) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: No Helmets in Virginia? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0204/125439.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 11 14:20:46 2004 Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 11:20:38 -0800 (PST) From: "Louis F. Caplan" Subject: RE: Interesting - Leon's accident To: mriderleon@XXXXXX, DC-Cycles --- Leon Begeman wrote: > > It is nice out there, Carl, but I think you're > > angling to get the loony rider crown away from Leon, > > riding with a cracked rib! > > Saturday night on Aden road, I was leaned over in a > curve, saw some water running across the road, and in > the middle of it discovered that some of the water was > ice. CRASH > Anyway, short answer is that I'm confined to a cage > for the next month or so. Very sorry to hear about your accident Leon, and hope you heal up soon. However, I was getting worried that at the end of your e-mail you were going to say "But to hell with the doctors, I rode in today anyway!" In case it has been a while since you were in one, the right pedal is the gas, the left (or middle) is the brake, and if there are three pedals, the left is the clutch. Good luck in the cage. Louis ===== "Admiral" Louis Caplan 1998 Kawasaki Concours Fairfax, VA Please consider helping me support the Pediatric Brain Tumor Foundation http://www.geocities.com/nighthawk700/rideforkids.htm __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 11 14:25:09 2004 From: Jim Shoemaker Subject: Re: No Helmets in Virginia? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 14:24:57 -0500 Fine with me. Just as long as they don't prohibit me from wearing a helmet. :-) >From the article: "Doctors say statistics show a dramatic increase in motorcycle injuries and treatment costs after states drop the law. Nancy Martin, trauma program director at VCU Medical Center, said unhelmeted victims spend 50 percent more time in the hospital on average than helmeted victims of accidents." I wonder if that's just "natural selection" doing a bit of catch-up work after those states stopped protecting people from themselves. I suspect that's an that will smooth out over time. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 11 14:25:13 2004 Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 14:24:57 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: No Helmets in Virginia? Cc: nma@XXXXXX The article says it will probably be killed, but that is a good step forward. Now if they can just avoid primary seatbelt enforcement and disallow red light cameras, we'll be getting back to a Commonwealth and away from a nanny state. At 05:01 PM 2/11/2004, Glenn Dysart wrote: >http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0204/125439.html ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 11 14:28:38 2004 Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 11:28:33 -0800 (PST) From: Leon Begeman Subject: RE: Interesting - Leon's accident To: "Louis F. Caplan" , DC-Cycles --- "Louis F. Caplan" wrote: > In case it has been a while since you were in one, > the right pedal is the gas, > the left (or middle) is the brake, and if there are > three pedals, the left is > the clutch. Good luck in the cage. The pedals were easy to figure out. The tough part is remembering that the damn thing goes the wrong way when I countersteer. :-O Leon. "When I die, I want to go quietly in my sleep, like my grandfather, not screaming in terror like the passengers in his car." __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 11 14:30:34 2004 Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 11:30:26 -0800 (PST) From: "Louis F. Caplan" Subject: Re: No Helmets in Virginia? To: DC-Cycles --- Glenn Dysart wrote: > http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0204/125439.html Lingamfelter, R-Prince William, has said, however, that his bill is different from those in the past because it requires riders to show proof of insurance and mandates they pass a motorcycle training course. "There's no sign this is a public burden," said Jim Cannon, director of the Virginia Coalition of Motorcyclists. "It's a law that protects us from ourselves. . If they put helmets on us, they need to outlaw fatty foods, tobacco, alcohol and unsafe sex." No public burden? The Rider Training courses are always full (booked months in advance) of people who WANT to be there to learn to ride a motorcycle. If this were to pass, we'd have classes full of people who really DON'T want to be there, won't listen to us anyway, and will squeeze out the people who really do want to be there and can benefit from the class. Oy! Louis ===== "Admiral" Louis Caplan 1998 Kawasaki Concours Fairfax, VA Please consider helping me support the Pediatric Brain Tumor Foundation http://www.geocities.com/nighthawk700/rideforkids.htm __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 11 14:36:04 2004 Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 14:52:17 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: DC-Cycles Subject: RE: Interesting - Leon's accident On Wed, 11 Feb 2004, Leon Begeman wrote: > The pedals were easy to figure out. The tough part is > remembering that the damn thing goes the wrong way > when I countersteer. :-O Then you're not pressing the one on the right hard enough :-) BTW, sorry to hear about the accident. Hope you're back in the saddle soon! -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 11 14:40:11 2004 From: Jim Shoemaker Subject: Re: No Helmets in Virginia? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 14:39:58 -0500 On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 14:24:57 -0500 Jim Shoemaker wrote: > I suspect that's an that will smooth out over time. That's supposed to read "I suspect that's an _anomaly_ that will smooth out over time." (That's what I get for de-lurking...can't even compose a coherent message.) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 11 14:41:48 2004 Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 14:41:37 -0500 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Interesting - Leon's accident X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 In a message dated 2/11/2004 2:20:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, nighthawk700@XXXXXX writes: > > > --- Leon Begeman wrote: > > > It is nice out there, Carl, but I think you're > > > angling to get the loony rider crown away from Leon, > > > riding with a cracked rib! > > > > Saturday night on Aden road, I was leaned over in a > > curve, saw some water running across the road, and in > > the middle of it discovered that some of the water was > > ice. CRASH > > > Anyway, short answer is that I'm confined to a cage > > for the next month or so. > > Very sorry to hear about your accident Leon, and hope you heal up soon. > However, I was getting worried that at the end of your e-mail you were going to > say "But to hell with the doctors, I rode in today anyway!" > > In case it has been a while since you were in one, the right pedal is the gas, > the left (or middle) is the brake, and if there are three pedals, the left is > the clutch. Good luck in the cage. > > Louis Also sorry to hear about your accident. BTW, Louis forgot to point out a couple things. You also don't need to wear your helmet and full riding gear while in your cage. Altough, with the way people drive around here, you might want to. LOL You also don't have to reach out the window to wipe off the windshield if it starts to rain. They have these nifty things called "windshield wipers" that do that for you. :-) Scooter From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 11 14:51:52 2004 From: Michael Lynch To: "'Louis F. Caplan'" , DC-Cycles Subject: RE: No Helmets in Virginia? Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 14:53:34 -0500 FYI, the bill with amendments is as follows: Summary: Motorcycles; helmets. Allows certain persons who are more than 21 years old, subject to payment to DMV of a fee of $1 per year, to ride motorcycles helmet-free. The bill also provides that violations of the "helmet law" (i) are punishable by a civil penalty of $25, to be paid into the Motorcycle Ride Safety Training Fund; (ii) are not to be assessed demerit points or court costs; (iii) do not constitute negligence and cannot be commented on by counsel in any action for the recovery of damages; (iv) may be charged on the uniform traffic summons form; and (v) are "secondary offenses." Full bill: 1. That M-'M-' 46.2-328 and 46.2-910 of the Code of Virginia are amended and reenacted as follows: ^[)BM-' 46.2-328. Department to issue licenses; endorsements, classifications, and restrictions authorizing operation of certain vehicles. A. The Department shall issue to every person licensed as a driver, a driver's license. Every driver's license shall contain all appropriate endorsements, classifications, and restrictions, where applicable, if the licensee has been licensed: 1. To operate a motorcycle as defined in ^[)BM-' 46.2-100, or 2. To operate a school bus as defined in ^[)BM-' 46.2-100, or 3. To operate a commercial motor vehicle pursuant to the provisions of the Virginia Commercial Driver's License Act (^[)BM-' 46.2-341.1 et seq.). B. Every applicant intending to operate one or more of the motor vehicles described in subsection A of this section, when applying for a driver's license, shall state in his application the classification of the vehicle or vehicles that he intends to operate and for which he seeks to be licensed and submit to and pass the examination provided for in ^[)BM-' 46.2-325 and, if applicable, M-'M-' 46.2-337 and 46.2-341.14, using the type of vehicle or vehicles for which he seeks to be licensed. C. Upon application therefor, holders of driver's licenses endorsed for the operation of motorcycles may, upon the payment of a fee of $1 per year, obtain from the Department an additional endorsement authorizing helmet-free operation of a motorcycle. Endorsements issued under this subsection shall have the same expiration date as the applicant's driver's license. No endorsement shall be issued under this subsection unless the applicant (i) is more than 21 years old and (ii) has successfully completed a motorcycle rider safety training course as provided in Article 23 (^[)BM-' 46.2-1188 et seq.) of Chapter 10 of this title. Notwithstanding subsection F, no endorsement shall be issued under this section to any motorcycle learner's permit. D. Every applicant intending to drive a motorcycle, when applying for a license endorsed to authorize the driving of a motorcycle, shall submit to and pass the examination provided for in ^[)BM-' 46.2-337. A classification on any license to drive a motorcycle shall indicate that the license is classified for the purpose of authorizing the licensee to drive only motorcycles. However, if the applicant has a valid license at the time of application for a classification to drive a motorcycle, or if the applicant, at the time of such application, applies for a regular driver's license and submits to and passes the examination provided for in ^[)BM-' 46.2-325, he shall be granted a classification on his license to drive motorcycles in addition to any other vehicles his driver's license or commercial driver's license may authorize him to operate. D. E. The Department may make any changes in the classifications and endorsements during the validity of the license as may be appropriate. E.The F. Except as provided in subsection C, provisions of this section shall be applicable to persons applying for learner's permits as otherwise provided for in this title. F. G. Every person issued a driver's license or commercial driver's license who drives any motor vehicle of the classifications in this section, and whose driver's license does not carry an endorsement or indication that the licensee is licensed as provided in this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. ^[)BM-' 46.2-910. Motorcyclist to wear helmets, etc.; certain sales prohibited; penalty. A. Every person operating a motorcycle shall wear a face shield, safety glasses or goggles, or have his motorcycle equipped with safety glass or a windshield at all times while operating the vehicle, and operators and any passengers thereon shall wear protective helmets, unless such operator or passenger is more than 21 years old and has either (i) held a Virginia driver's license with a motorcycle endorsement for at least two years or (ii) successfully completed a Virginia Motorcycle Rider Safety Training Program and holds an unexpired endorsement, issued by the Department as provided in subsection C of ^[)BM-' 46.2-328, that authorizes helmet-free operation of a motorcycle. Operators and passengers riding on motorcycles with wheels of eight inches or less in diameter or in three-wheeled motorcycles which have nonremovable roofs, windshields and enclosed bodies shall not be required to wear protective helmets. The windshields, face shields, glasses or goggles, and protective helmets required by this section shall meet or exceed the standards and specifications of the Snell Memorial Foundation, the American National Standards Institute, Inc., or the federal Department of Transportation. Failure to wear a face shield, safety glasses or goggles, or protective helmets shall not constitute negligence per se in any civil proceeding. The provisions of this section requiring the wearing of protective helmets shall not apply to operators of or passengers on motorcycles being operated (i) as part of an organized parade authorized by the Department of Transportation or the locality in which the parade is being conducted and escorted, accompanied, or participated in by law-enforcement officers of the jurisdiction wherein the parade is held and (ii) at speeds of no more than fifteen15 miles per hour. No motorcycle operator shall use any face shield, safety glasses or goggles, or have his motorcycle equipped with safety glass or a windshield unless of a type either (i) approved by the Superintendent prior to July 1, 1996, or (ii) that meets or exceeds the standards and specifications of the Snell Memorial Foundation, the American National Standards Institute, Inc., or the federal Department of Transportation and is marked in accordance with such standards. B. Any violation of subsection A of this section shall be punishable by a civil penalty of $25, which shall be paid into the Motorcycle Rider Safety Training Fund. No assignment of demerit points shall be made under Article 19 (^[)BM-' 46.2-489 et seq.) of Chapter 3 of this title, and no court costs shall be assessed for violations of subsection A of this section. C. Violation of subsection A shall not constitute negligence, be considered in mitigation of damages of whatever nature, be admissible in evidence or be the subject of comment by counsel in any action for the recovery of damages arising out of the operation, ownership, or maintenance of a motor vehicle, nor shall anything in subsection A of this section change any existing law, rule, or procedure pertaining to such civil action. D. A violation of subsection A may be charged on the uniform traffic summons form. E. No citation for a violation of subsection A shall be issued unless the officer issuing such citation has cause to stop or arrest the driver of such motor vehicle for the violation of some other provision of this Code or local ordinance relating to the operation, ownership, or maintenance of a motor vehicle or any criminal statute. F. It shall be unlawful to sell or offer for sale, for highway use in Virginia, any protective helmet that fails to meet or exceed any standard as provided in the foregoing provisions of this section. Any violation of this subsection shall constitute a Class 4 misdemeanor. Mike 98 XR400 96 VFR 76 CB400F > -----Original Message----- > From: Louis F. Caplan [SMTP:nighthawk700@XXXXXX] > Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 2:30 PM > To: DC-Cycles > Subject: Re: No Helmets in Virginia? > > --- Glenn Dysart wrote: > > http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0204/125439.html > > > Lingamfelter, R-Prince William, has said, however, that his bill is > different > from those in the past because it requires riders to show proof of > insurance > and mandates they pass a motorcycle training course. > > "There's no sign this is a public burden," said Jim Cannon, director of > the > Virginia Coalition of Motorcyclists. "It's a law that protects us from > ourselves. . If they put helmets on us, they need to outlaw fatty foods, > tobacco, alcohol and unsafe sex." > > > No public burden? The Rider Training courses are always full (booked > months in > advance) of people who WANT to be there to learn to ride a motorcycle. If > this > were to pass, we'd have classes full of people who really DON'T want to be > there, won't listen to us anyway, and will squeeze out the people who > really do > want to be there and can benefit from the class. > > Oy! > > Louis > > > ===== > "Admiral" Louis Caplan 1998 Kawasaki Concours Fairfax, VA > Please consider helping me support the Pediatric Brain Tumor Foundation > http://www.geocities.com/nighthawk700/rideforkids.htm > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 11 15:23:40 2004 Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 15:23:35 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: "Louis F. Caplan" , DC-Cycles Subject: Re: No Helmets in Virginia? -----Original Message----- From: "Louis F. Caplan" No public burden? The Rider Training courses are always full (booked months in advance) of people who WANT to be there to learn to ride a motorcycle. If this were to pass, we'd have classes full of people who really DON'T want to be there, won't listen to us anyway, and will squeeze out the people who really do want to be there and can benefit from the class. Oy! Louis ------ Moreover, it suggests to our graduates that it's okey-dokey to ride without a helmet once you pass our course. That's a bad idea, as it suggests that the riding course is somehow a "magic pill" that you swallow and become a "safe" driver that doesn't need to fool with kid stuff like protective gear. The state will be in the position of contradicting one of fundamentals of safer riding. If the state legislators decide to dispense with the helmet requirement, fine. Make it a "clean repeal" and encourage personal responsibility. But, if you're going to engage in legislating protective gear and encouraging certain behaviors, at least do it right. And, somehow, I doubt the state devote the funds to expanding the training program once they put this new requirement in place. As Louis points out, demand is way out in front of supply as it is. Paul From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 11 15:34:20 2004 Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 15:34:06 -0500 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: No Helmets in Virginia? X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 In a message dated 2/11/2004 3:23:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, viffermaniac@XXXXXX writes: > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Louis F. Caplan" > > No public burden? The Rider Training courses are always full (booked months in > advance) of people who WANT to be there to learn to ride a motorcycle. If this > were to pass, we'd have classes full of people who really DON'T want to be > there, won't listen to us anyway, and will squeeze out the people who really do > want to be there and can benefit from the class. > > Oy! > > Louis > > ------ > > Moreover, it suggests to our graduates that it's okey-dokey to ride without a helmet once you pass our course. That's a bad idea, as it suggests that the riding course is somehow a "magic pill" that you swallow and become a "safe" driver that doesn't need to fool with kid stuff like protective gear. The state will be in the position of contradicting one of fundamentals of safer riding. > > If the state legislators decide to dispense with the helmet requirement, fine. Make it a "clean repeal" and encourage personal responsibility. But, if you're going to engage in legislating protective gear and encouraging certain behaviors, at least do it right. > > And, somehow, I doubt the state devote the funds to expanding the training program once they put this new requirement in place. As Louis points out, demand is way out in front of > supply as it is. > > Paul Or, make it so that you take the course and have your M/C endorsement for at least 1 or 2 years before you can go helmetless. Scooter From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 11 15:47:57 2004 Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 12:47:54 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: No Helmets in Virginia? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Glenn Dysart wrote: > http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0204/125439.html > Come on. You know they're not going to enforce it. How are they going to know you do or don't have insurance? A license? Have taken training of _any_ sort? You won't know that until you have to talk to the cops (ticket or the accident). That's when this is all discovered. And in the case of the accident, it doesn't matter any way. The "public-burden", as they call it, is the additional money spent on hospital care when you rack up the bike. I think a "learners-plate" would be a start but that would mean I couldn't ride Rita's Honda without a helmet and she could ride one of my bikes without a helmet. Caveat: I personally believe in seat-belts, helmets, child seats, roll bars, air bags, armored gear and various other personal protection devices. When used appropriately and when understanding the full risks of not using such devices. Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 11 16:10:25 2004 From: "LindaT." To: "Dc-Cycles" Subject: RE: Interesting Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 16:10:10 -0500 So sorry to hear about your mishap. I hope you heal quickly. LindaT. http://www.customtankbags.com Now - TankBags for 1800 Wings Springfield, VA (suburb of our nation's capital) AMA IBA HSTA BMWBMW 99 R1100RT Mr. Buzzy 95 F3 Purple Haze 00 KLR250 Super Sherpa Tenzing Leon Begeman said: ...I hit on my left side behind my arm and fractured four ribs. The CatScan also showed a partially collapsed lung and a mark of some kind on my spleen. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 11 16:25:15 2004 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: No Helmets in Virginia? Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 16:13:55 -0500 I find it funny people that wear 1/2 helmets are arguing the stupidity of riding w/o a helmet. If I had to ride a few yrs then was allowed to ride w/o a helmet I'd have that naked feeling I do now when I don't have one on and would wear it, wouldn't that defeat the law. I would like to not have to worry about running into an LEO when I'm simply moving my bike from it's parking spot to my house (100 yards) w/o wearing a helmet. As far as checking licensing, that seems to be all the LEO care about when they have pulled me over, last 2 times they haven't asked for my registration, just my license. _________________________________________________________________ Let the advanced features & services of MSN Internet Software maximize your online time. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200363ave/direct/01/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 11 16:26:47 2004 Subject: No helmets in VA? Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 16:26:22 -0500 From: "Maurer, Aaron" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX X-WSS-ID: 6C3442741550692-01-01 http://www.nbc4.com/traffic/2840291/detail.html?treets=dc&tml=dc_4pm&ts= T&tmi=dc_4pm_2602_03000102112004 >>Bill Would Let Motorcyclists Ride Helmet-Free Motorcyclists could ride without helmets in Virginia under a plan that's making progress but still faces an uphill ride. MORE DETAILS: Let the flaming begin. (sorry if posted before, I'm digested -- ) Aaron P. Maurer ------------------------------------------------------------ NOTICE: This message is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by reply or by telephone (call us collect at (202) 434-5000) and immediately delete this message and all its attachments. ============================================================ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 11 16:46:58 2004 Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 16:46:50 -0500 To: "'DCCycles'" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Daytona doesn't *really* want Bike Week anymore... Executive summary: "Please come to Daytona, but don't do anything you wouldn't do back home, and in particular, don't do the stuff you come here to do." They Mayor should either learn to proof read her announcements, or hire someone who's taken an English class... -- Mike B. Orlando is having a bike week same dates. Daytona may loose a lot of dollars to Orlando ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Daytona Mayor Letter to Bikers Attending Bike Week ----- Office of the Mayor P.O. Box 2451 Daytona Beach, FL 32115-2451 Dear Bike Week Visitors: On behalf of the City of Daytona Beach I would like to welcome you to our fine city and the ^[)BM-bM-^@M-^\WorldM-bM-^@M-^Ys Largest Motorcycle EventM-bM-^@M-^]^[$)BM-BM-.. We want you to have a great time while you are here, and we ask that you be considerate of our residents and all of the other visitors who will join us for this event. You may have read some articles or heard some rumors that the City of Daytona Beach is no longer interested in having you visit our area. I want you to know that everyone is welcome to our City as long as they follow the same rules and laws that our citizens must abide by everyday. Every year, our 65,000 citizens welcome almost a half million motorcycle enthusiasts to our community. The City^[)BM-bM-^@M-^Ys goals include creating a balance between special event tourism and the quality of life for our year-round citizens. In order to move toward our goals, the City^[)BM-bM-^@M-^Ys Code has been amended to create several new laws, with which we would like you to become familiar. The first law has to do with public nudity. Basically, it is unlawful for anyone to intentionally appear, or cause or permit another person to appear, in a public place in a state of undress. Persons in public places must have full and opaque coverings over their private body parts. Although some noises encountered during motorcycle weeks are unavoidable, distracting noises purposefully created by persons desiring to attract attention to themselves may distract drivers from the safe operation of their vehicles on public rights-of-way. Therefore the second new law prohibits rapid throttle advance or ^[)BM-bM-^@M-^\revvingM-bM-^@M-^] of an internal combustion engine resulting in increased noise from the engine. Therefore, we ask that you be mindful of the noise that you and your motorcycle create especially while driving in residential areas and during nighttime hours. Please drive quietly and respectfully as you would within your neighborhoods at home. The final new law prohibits the carrying, or consumption of, alcoholic beverages in parking lots open to the general public within 100 feet of the State Road A1A right-of-way within the City of Daytona Beach. This new rule was designed to minimize the excessive noise, littering and obstruction of pedestrian and vehicle movement within our hotel parking areas and to keep our guests safe. The safety and security of our visitors and residents has always been one of our highest priorities. We hope that you will take part in the many exciting races, concerts and activities that are planned for Bike Week 2004. We want everyone to have a terrific time when they visit Daytona Beach. Remember to please ^[)BM-bM-^@M-^\Ride QuietM-bM-^@M-^] and be courteous to those around you. By working together we will all have a great year! Please ride safely and enjoy your vacation! Yvonne Scarlett-Golden Mayor ----- From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 11 16:56:05 2004 Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 16:54:58 -0500 To: Leon Begeman , Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: Interesting At 10:26 AM 2/11/04 -0800, Leon Begeman wrote: >the left side. I hit on my left side behind my arm >and fractured four ribs. The CatScan also showed a >partially collapsed lung and a mark of some kind on my >spleen. Ouch. Glad you are going to recover though...and that you won't require a lot of other treatment. >They kept me in the hospital until Tuesday afternoon >for observation. No treatment, just stay there. It's >no wonder medical treatment in this country is so >expensive. Years ago, I would have just gone hom Actually, I expect that that observation period was mostly to cover their butts in case something unlikely happened and you got into problems (like fully collapsed lungs or internal bleeding that didn't show up on the scan). They have to treat the unlikely as very possible to avoid malpractice lawsuits...the true source of expensive medical care. >make sure. After this experience, I am less likely to >go in for a checkup in the future. Why? Go, get checked. If they don't find anything and want to keep you "just in case", and you don't want to stay, leave. They can't hold you against your will...though they may want to you to sign a release saying that you are leaving over their objections. The lawyer thing again. >So no matter what the weather in the next month, Leon >didn't ride :-( Same as with Evil Carl: at least you aren't too badly hurt, and at least it isn't June. Glad you aren't permanently damaged. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 11 17:02:00 2004 Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 17:02:00 -0500 To: Glenn Dysart , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: No Helmets in Virginia? At 10:57 AM 2/11/04 -0800, Glenn Dysart wrote: >http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0204/125439.html Won't happen anytime soon. BTW, Virginia already outlaws unsafe sex... How many on the list have committed "Crimes Against Nature" in Virgina? >From what I've heard about Virginia law from growing up there, that means any sexual activity *other* than that between consenting, married (to each other) adults, in private, in either the "Missionary" or "Reverse-Missionary" (i.e. the cannibals are in the big iron kettle :^) positions. [NOTE: unless your bedroom has a really wide door, that pretty much rules out sex on your bike...] -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 11 17:04:47 2004 Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 17:04:43 -0500 To: Jim Shoemaker , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: No Helmets in Virginia? At 02:39 PM 2/11/04 -0500, Jim Shoemaker wrote: > (That's what I get for de-lurking...can't even compose a >coherent message.) Then you should de-lurk more often...practice, practice, practice! :^) -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 11 17:07:42 2004 Reply-To: From: "stephen" To: "'DCCycles'" Subject: RE: No Helmets in Virginia? (or bizarro land) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 17:07:30 -0500 I think it's a great way to put more motorcycles into the junk yards after more and more riders who crash them helmetless aren't alive any more, or suffer permanent brain damage. Sure there's a human life at stake, but for Virginians, that's not important. Long live the freedom to die [doing what you love]. I think the AMA should start practicing what it preaches too, and let road-racers ride helmetless. That could provide for spectacular television-viewer interest as well as, eventually, enormous impetus to rethink what it means to Americans to allow street-riders to ride helmetless. The AMA's double-think on this topic is exactly why I won't join. In The Bizarro-Land Herald... "AMA sues itself for right to ride helmetless" -- Stephen Dobson, Special BL Correspondent AMA lawyers representing both the claimant (The AMA) and the defendant (The AMA) filed suit against itself in Pickering, Ohio today. At issue was the right of the AMA, as governing body of all AMA sanctioned races in America, to insist that motorcyclists riding within its jurisdiction be require to wear AMA approved helmets at every race. AMA racers were of mixed opinion about the matter, though most thought they would continue to wear a helmet even if the rules were relaxed. Pascal Pickalot reflected on the suit: "Ah doo nud tink dat ah wood nud wear my 'elmet eeven eef de ah-emm-ah de-sah-ded to led me nud wear id 'cause, you gnu, ummm .. eet iz very impoortant, my 'ed .. ah doo mah beast tinkin' wid it so ah wood nut wund do .. umm .. crash und never gid to crash agin, you gnu." Renowned racer Patty Hearse proffered: "I think there's an advantage to not wearing a helmet. For one thing, you can hear better. When someone's coming up the inside with an open pipe, you sure know they're there. With helmets being so quiet these days, I sometimes completely forget I'm racing at all, and think that I've gone dirt riding. For some reason, though, I don't ever seem to win on those days." Racing magazine editor Joan Ulritch was less melodramatic about the whole issue saying prophetically "go bury your head in an air-fence." "I completely understand why we're suing ourselves. We're the AMA! We don't make any sense, so the fact that we have different standards from those we advocate others follow is completely normal. In fact, that we elected to sue ourselves, to many an apparent conundrum in its own right, is actually quite obviously part of the norm here at the AMA." drawled Will Stoner, Director of Special Events. This begs the question: Why do Americans support an organization with its head so far up its own ass that it's own neck is medically considered a "colonic impediment." When posed this latter question, presidential hopeless, Howard Dean postulated "Woo-hoo .. We're going forward to put a sense of decency into the Whitehouse, and if that means medicare for ANYONE with a colonic impediment, then I'm you're man. WOOOOOOO == HOOOOOOO." Lawyers for both sides predicted that ultimately, the AMA would prevail, and would be vindicated in its own eyes. When questioned about the AMA's motives for issuing a suit against itself rather than using a neutral arbitrator to find a middle ground, all the lawyers sniffed in unison and muttered somewhat incoherently about how they could never get paid if that were to happen. The trial is expected to take up to six months, and cost the AMA approximately $2.8 million which will be wholly underwritten by the membership no matter which side wins. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 11 17:09:08 2004 Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 17:09:01 -0500 To: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Interesting - Leon's accident At 02:41 PM 2/11/04 -0500, ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: >You also don't have to reach out the window to wipe off the windshield if it starts to rain. They have these nifty things called "windshield wipers" that do that for you. :-) Ummm...that brings up a good point: why can't bikes have these too? When I was 5 years old, I lived in Hawaii (to be near my parents). On my walk to school one day (in the daily rain shower) I saw a kid with a raincoat that had a full head-hood, with faceplate, and the faceplate had a little windshield wiper on it. I think it was manually-operated, but batteries would work too I expect. If these existed in the early 60s, why do moto helmets still lack this obvious feature? With today's motors and batteries I'd expect that you could do it even smaller and lighter than back then, and probably even put in raindrop sensors so it activated automatically as needed...anybody heard of something like that for sale? -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 11 17:17:29 2004 Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 17:16:42 -0500 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: No Helmets in Virginia? At 12:47 PM 2/11/04 -0800, Carl Schelin wrote: > >--- Glenn Dysart wrote: >> http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0204/125439.html >> > >Come on. You know they're not going to enforce it. How are they going to >know you do or don't have insurance? A license? Have taken training of >_any_ sort? I suspect that's what the $1 is for...you'll have to fill out a form saying you have, pay them a buck and get an extra endorsement on your license. >You won't know that until you have to talk to the cops (ticket or the >accident). That's when this is all discovered. And in the case of the >accident, it doesn't matter any way. Law said it was a secondary offense...i.e. they can't stop you for it, but if they have you detained for something else, they can check. Then you get to pay a fine if you didn't do it legally. >The "public-burden", as they call it, is the additional money spent on >hospital care when you rack up the bike. Right, and I can see insurance companies inquiring as to whether you wear a helmet or not, and getting the endorsement not to may very well raise your rates. >Caveat: I personally believe in seat-belts, helmets, child seats, roll >bars, air bags, armored gear and various other personal protection >devices. When used appropriately and when understanding the full risks of >not using such devices. Me too. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 11 17:18:55 2004 Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 17:13:26 -0500 To: Paul Wilson , "Louis F. Caplan" , DC-Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: No Helmets in Virginia? At 03:23 PM 2/11/04 -0500, Paul Wilson wrote: >Moreover, it suggests to our graduates that it's okey-dokey to ride without a helmet once you pass our course. That's a bad idea, as it suggests that the riding course is somehow a "magic pill" that you swallow and become a "safe" driver that doesn't need to fool with kid stuff like protective gear. The state will be in the position of contradicting one of fundamentals of safer riding. That's one way to see it. I saw it a different way: "If you want to ride helmetless, you must first go take the safe rider course, and let the instructors there tell you how vital it is to wear a helmet at all times. If, after having experts tell you this, you STILL want to ride without one, ok, it's a free country, and it's your funeral..." Don't know how many would see it your way, and how many mine...or how many who see it my way would, like me, wear helmets anyway... -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 11 17:27:09 2004 Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 17:27:03 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: Mike Bartman , Glenn Dysart , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: No Helmets in Virginia? -----Original Message----- From: Mike Bartman At 10:57 AM 2/11/04 -0800, Glenn Dysart wrote: >http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0204/125439.html Won't happen anytime soon. BTW, Virginia already outlaws unsafe sex... How many on the list have committed "Crimes Against Nature" in Virgina? +++++++++++++ Well, large parts of the statute were likely to have been declared unconstitutional by the Supremes in Lawrence v. Texas. Anyway, getting back to bikes, one of the dumber proposals from the past few years, in that wacky Va. Gen'l Assembly, was a provision that would have lifted the helmet requirement, but only on designated parkways. One wag, which might have been me, suggested that while they were at it, they might as well lift the requirement statewide, but only on Tuesdays. I say, if someone has figured out when, how and where a rider is going to crash, it's time to quit your job. With clairvoyance like that one could make a killing in the stock market and the lottery. Paul in DC 95 VFR - 86 VF500F - 90 Shoei RF800 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 11 17:34:19 2004 Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 17:31:52 -0500 To: , "'DCCycles'" From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: No Helmets in Virginia? (or bizarro land) At 05:07 PM 2/11/04 -0500, stephen wrote: >I think it's a great way to put more motorcycles into the junk yards after >more and more riders who crash them helmetless aren't alive any more, or >suffer permanent brain damage. Wow! I hadn't thought of that. Should drop the price of repair parts and chopper-makings considerably! Bonus! >Sure there's a human life at stake, but for >Virginians, that's not important. Long live the freedom to die [doing what >you love]. Exactly. Think of it as evolution in action. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 11 18:11:39 2004 Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 15:11:36 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: No Helmets in Virginia? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- rich hall wrote: > I find it funny people that wear 1/2 helmets are arguing the stupidity > of riding w/o a helmet. Yea, must suck to have an opinion. Carl :-| ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 11 18:28:46 2004 Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 18:28:46 -0500 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: No Helmets in Virginia? At 03:11 PM 2/11/04 -0800, Carl Schelin wrote: > >--- rich hall wrote: >> I find it funny people that wear 1/2 helmets are arguing the stupidity >> of riding w/o a helmet. > >Yea, must suck to have an opinion. Yeah, especially when you follow Rich's logic to its ultimate conclusion. If it's stupid to argue about not wearing a helmet because you don't wear the best protecting helmet available (full face), then it's stupid to argue about bike safety at all if you don't drive the safest road vehicle available (probably an M-1 Abrams). We all take risks to do what we want to do. Start prohibiting others taking risks that we wouldn't assume ourselves, and someone else is going to start prohibiting us taking risks we are perfectly happy with. We will get reduced to the "safest common denominator" (whatever that is...probably sitting in a room-sized safe buried under our houses, with multiply-redundant life-support systems. Or maybe lying on the floor. Sitting up isn't safe...you can fall out of your chair...). Life is always fatal. The only choice is whether to use it to live, or simply to exist. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 11 18:32:48 2004 From: "LindaT." To: "Dc-Cycles" Subject: Still Movin' on... Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 18:32:34 -0500 Forgive me Harry, if this is too OT... >From before I went to digital photography, I have a lot (20+) of 3 ring binders and plastic photo pages. I have pages for 3x5, 4x6, negatives and slides. I'm scanning in everything I want to keep and want to dispose of the binders and the pages. Anyone have any idea of who might want these?? I hate to just throw them away, but I will if I can't think of someone to give them to. TIA LindaT. http://www.customtankbags.com Now - TankBags for 1800 Wings Springfield, VA (suburb of our nation's capital) AMA IBA HSTA BMWBMW 99 R1100RT Mr. Buzzy 95 F3 Purple Haze 00 KLR250 Super Sherpa Tenzing From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 11 18:36:35 2004 Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 15:36:32 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: No Helmets in Virginia? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 03:11 PM 2/11/04 -0800, Carl Schelin wrote: > > > >--- rich hall wrote: > >> I find it funny people that wear 1/2 helmets are arguing the > stupidity > >> of riding w/o a helmet. > > > >Yea, must suck to have an opinion. > > Yeah, especially when you follow Rich's logic to its ultimate > conclusion. > > If it's stupid to argue about not wearing a helmet because you don't > wear > the best protecting helmet available (full face), then it's stupid to > argue > about bike safety at all if you don't drive the safest road vehicle > available (probably an M-1 Abrams). > > We all take risks to do what we want to do. Start prohibiting others > taking risks that we wouldn't assume ourselves, and someone else is > going > to start prohibiting us taking risks we are perfectly happy with. We > will > get reduced to the "safest common denominator" (whatever that > is...probably > sitting in a room-sized safe buried under our houses, with > multiply-redundant life-support systems. Or maybe lying on the floor. > Sitting up isn't safe...you can fall out of your chair...). > > Life is always fatal. The only choice is whether to use it to live, or > simply to exist. > Yea. Skiing (water and snow), snowboarding, driving your SUV too fast in the snow. I choose riding a bike. I also am free to choose which DOT approved helmet I can wear. I'm not wearing a half-helmet (during the summer of course) to flout the helmet laws or to be buddies with the other 98%ers. You know I prefer riding alone. I like wearing a half-helmet. But I could also ride the VRE and catch the creeping crud. Life's short. Jeeze, I'm likely quitting a job and moving to Co and have no prospects. Flipping burgers or even wrenching bikes for a living will certainly be interesting. But hey, it's life. Enjoy :-) > -- Mike B. > Rant rant rant. Carl out ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 11 20:02:41 2004 Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 17:02:38 -0800 (PST) From: John Kozyn Subject: Misc. Topics To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX >garicao@XXXXXX writes: > So...what are folks using for gasket goop where there is regular > contact with gasoline? Nothing.Where would you use sealer in contact with fuel? =========== Garcia (and John), I use it for the drain bolt and washer on the tank of my 900SS. The goop that I use was recommneded by Dennis at Crossroads. It's called Hylamar HPF Gasket Dressing and Flange Sealant. It works great, absolutely no leaks! ============== And this from Leon Begeman Saturday night on Aden road, I was leaned over in a curve, saw some water running across the road, and in the middle of it discovered that some of the water was ice. =============== Ouch, so sorry to hear of your get-off, Leon. Hope you mend soon! but as you might know, it takes a little longer after one reaches a certain age ;) John Kozyn (D-mode) 1995 VFR750F 1999 900SS N.B. Thanks to Paul Wilson who has precisely the tool I'm looking for. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 11 20:26:28 2004 Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 17:26:20 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: red light turn To: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX virginia doesn't seem to have a statute on point here like md. does.... i'll check tomorrow for caselaw (not likely but you never know).... --- ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: > I believe that is it permissable to make a left turn on > red after waiting for so many minutes/cycles for the > light to turn. After specified amount of time, if signal > still has not changed, you are permitted to proceed if > there is no oncoming traffic. Don't quote me on that > though. Just dredging up what I recall from Drivers Ed > in Pennsyltuckey. :-) The fact that a cop was so > readily available to pull you over and give you a ticket > stinks of setup to me. As for how to plead, not sure. > Guilty with extenuating circumstances? I'm sure the > lawyers on the list (Tom) will be able to help. > > Scooter > > In a message dated 2/10/2004 10:04:13 AM Eastern Standard > Time, Robert.Verde@XXXXXX writes: > > > > > > > I suspect the official position is that you should have > made three right turns, not the one left... Still, this > seems to entail illegal driving as well, as I'm sure it's > not legal to pull out of a turn lane while at the light. > > > > I have had some luck with thumbing the starter button > while parking right over one of the sensor lines in the > pavement, this will usually trigger the traffic signal. > Not always, though, and I have waited through entire > cycles of lights until a cage pulled up behind me. > > > > Best of luck on the legal front! > > > > Robert > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Lurking [mailto:lurking444@XXXXXX] > > Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 8:55 AM > > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > Subject: Re: dc-cycles digest for 02/09/04 > > > > > > Question for those more experienced than I: > > > > Last night, I was riding my bike and was sitting in a > left turn only lane. I waited > > through an entire cycle of the light, and it was > obvious to me that the sensor in the road > > didn't detect myself or my motorcycle. I pushed the > bike backward and forward a few feet > > hoping to trip the sensor. After waiting for at least > 4 full minutes, I saw there was no > > oncoming traffic and made the left turn (through lanes > had green, but my left turn light > > was red). I was pulled over by a Fairfax County cop > and got a ticket for disregarding a > > red light. What should my plea be when I appear at the > courthouse on March 17? I was > > thinking not guilty, but I am going to testify to > exactly what happened (as I describe > > here). I'd like to get the charge dismissed, since it > was obvious that I wasn't > > disregarding the light, however I did drive (ride) > through a red light. Should I plea > > guilty and explain the circumstances? If I plea > guilty, that removes any chance of having > > the charge dismissed, correct? I really was amazed > that the officer cited me, after I > > explained exactly what happened. Fairfax County is > tough! __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 11 21:07:48 2004 Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 18:07:40 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: No helmets in VA? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > >>Bill Would Let Motorcyclists Ride Helmet-Free > Motorcyclists could ride without helmets in Virginia under a plan that's > making > progress but still faces an uphill ride. The Post said it has essentially no chance of clearing the senate. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 11 21:07:59 2004 Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 18:07:46 -0800 (PST) From: "Louis F. Caplan" Subject: Re: No Helmets in Virginia? To: DC-Cycles > >Moreover, it suggests to our graduates that it's okey-dokey to ride > without a helmet once you pass our course. That's a bad idea, as it > suggests that the riding course is somehow a "magic pill" that you swallow > and become a "safe" driver that doesn't need to fool with kid > stuff like protective gear. The state will be in the position of > contradicting one of fundamentals of safer riding. > > That's one way to see it. I saw it a different way: > > "If you want to ride helmetless, you must first go take the safe rider > course, and let the instructors there tell you how vital it is to wear a > helmet at all times. If, after having experts tell you this, you STILL > want to ride without one, ok, it's a free country, and it's your funeral..." Sorry, but the course is full of material we have to go over, and a limited amount of time to do so. We have a section where we talk about helmets, but we don't have the time or material to be "experts" and to spend trying to convince them to ride with helmets. Nor would I want to be the so called expert that is supposed to be the one who has to try to convince these people to wear the helmet. I tell them why I wear a helmet, I tell them why helmets are a good thing. The rest at that point is up to them and/or the law. Louis ===== "Admiral" Louis Caplan 1998 Kawasaki Concours Fairfax, VA Please consider helping me support the Pediatric Brain Tumor Foundation http://www.geocities.com/nighthawk700/rideforkids.htm __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 11 21:30:44 2004 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: Re: No helmets in VA? Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 21:30:26 -0500 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79feba085acb50a365c519fc196a3fcca5350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Larry reported: > > >>Bill Would Let Motorcyclists Ride Helmet-Free > > Motorcyclists could ride without helmets in Virginia under a plan that's > > making progress but still faces an uphill ride. > > The Post said it has essentially no chance of clearing the senate. > > -- Larry [Dave] I hate to admit it, but the is probably right. This bill is only one step ahead of a repeal of the radar detector ban... Nevertheless, it would be nice to chip away at the 'nannyisms'... Dave From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 11 23:00:23 2004 Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 23:00:20 -0500 To: "Louis F. Caplan" , DC-Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: No Helmets in Virginia? At 06:07 PM 2/11/04 -0800, Louis F. Caplan wrote: >supposed to be the one who has to try to convince these people to wear the >helmet. I tell them why I wear a helmet, I tell them why helmets are a good >thing. That's the only thing I was getting at anyway, so no problem. The basic idea is that they can't come back later and claim, "I didn't know!" The requirement ensures that they were told. Listening is optional. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 12 00:11:30 2004 Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 00:14:54 -0500 Subject: Re: Gasoline gasket recommendation? To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "garcia oliver" PenguinBiker@XXXXXX writes: >In a message dated 2/11/2004 2:37:16 AM Eastern Standard Time, >garicao@XXXXXX writes: > >> Also some carb intake rubbers >> have gaskets, as do some petcock/tank mating surfaces. > >But those usually (always?) have rubber "O" rings imbedded in them "O" >rings >that always are made of fuel resistant material and if worn (flattened >out) >can simply and cheaply be replaced. Most (not all) use o-rings. They can be replaced if you have the right diameter and thickness o-rings handy. If you don't, the Hylomar stuff I mentioned seems to work. > I have never (note 8 yrs. as a full time >professional motorcycle mechanic) used sealer on any of the items you >mentioned. >Sealer on rubber parts (OK neoprene) can actually act like a lubricant >allowing them to shift or even pop out of place altogether (a common >problem with the >older GS series valve cover gaskets, use sealer and they _will_ pop out >of >place.) If we're thinking of the same rubbery gaskets (with a groove in the valve cover) they certainly do pop out easily. But I find it's because the valve cover is a tight squeeze and it's easy to snag the gasket. Fortunately it's also easy to run my finger around the gasket and make sure it's seated before bolting it down. > And even a slight over use in the fuel system could result in gasket >material flaking off and plugging tiny fuel passages with material that >by design >is not likely to be removed by carburetor cleaners. A very good point, and it applies to any gasket sealant that can squeeze out and migrate. I've seen engine side covers, especially, where someone thought that if a little RTV (silicone seal) rubber was good, more was better. The result was gobs of rubbery material waiting to fall off and plug oil passageways. Always use as little as possible. > >If your shop manual does not call for sealer I would not use any. >If it does ignore the above. They're written with the assumption that one has the right parts and tools readily available. This is not always the case. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 12 07:08:58 2004 Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 07:08:47 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: Mike Bartman , "Louis F. Caplan" , DC-Cycles Subject: Re: No Helmets in Virginia? -----Original Message----- From: Mike Bartman Sent: Feb 11, 2004 11:00 PM To: "Louis F. Caplan" , DC-Cycles Subject: Re: No Helmets in Virginia? At 06:07 PM 2/11/04 -0800, Louis F. Caplan wrote: >supposed to be the one who has to try to convince these people to wear the >helmet. I tell them why I wear a helmet, I tell them why helmets are a good >thing. That's the only thing I was getting at anyway, so no problem. The basic idea is that they can't come back later and claim, "I didn't know!" The requirement ensures that they were told. Listening is optional. -- Mike B. At this time we hardly mention helmet use at all in the course, and certainly don't present a bunch of statistics and "preach" about helmet use. OTOH, we don't spend a lot of time on legally "optional" gear like decent footwear, jackets, pants and gloves either. Just point out the legislature has no jurisdiction over the laws of physics, nor can they change the coefficient of friction between asphalt and exposed human flesh. Plus there are bugs, rain, cold, hot pipes, etc. that can make life unpleasant for the under-dressed rider. Over the years, MSF has chosen to follow the "enjoyment" factor and hit the "comfort" argument pretty hard with respect to gear. Theory being, I guess, the no one expects to crash. The course, especially the classroom portion, is already very compressed and fast-paced. Perhaps your "citizen-legislators" would like to redesign the training course of us? Right now, it's just a given that you're going to be wearing a helmet, both in our course and on the street. It's not a matter up for debate, so we don't spend time on it. In fact MSF upped the ante last year by banning half-helmets on the range. 3/4 or full face now. I'd be curious to see how they handle it in non helmet law states. That said, if they want to do a "clean" repeal, fine. I'll still be wearing my helmet. Just don't mess with the training courses with a "bypass" provision. But, as someone pointed out yesterday, it's prolly not going to pass anyway. Paul in DC, speaking for myself and not the MSF nor the VRTP 95 VFR - 86 VF500F From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 12 07:20:48 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 07:20:40 EST Subject: Re: Interesting To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 2/11/2004 9:03:48 AM Eastern Standard Time, adamme1@XXXXXX writes: > I definately wouldn't recommend any motocross riding. ;-) That is how I got my first cracked rib! (I still can see that handlebar pointed at my chest as I fell.) My job at the time consisted primarily of heavy lifting, _that_ was an unpleasant couple of weeks. Take it easy, many of us can "feel" your pain (and do not want any more.) John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 12 07:27:43 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 07:27:33 EST Subject: Re: red light turn... To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 2/11/2004 9:13:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, cledford@XXXXXX writes: > I'd suggest taking a copy of this thread and searching the > internet for a few more to support an assertion that red light > sensors frequently don't work for motorcycles While you are at it I would look up what the law says about what drivers are supposed to do at Malfunctioning lights since the light was in fact malfunctioning. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 12 07:56:27 2004 Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 08:12:36 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: No Helmets in Virginia? On Wed, 11 Feb 2004, Mike Bartman wrote: > At 06:07 PM 2/11/04 -0800, Louis F. Caplan wrote: > > >supposed to be the one who has to try to convince these people to wear the > >helmet. I tell them why I wear a helmet, I tell them why helmets are a good > >thing. > > That's the only thing I was getting at anyway, so no problem. The basic > idea is that they can't come back later and claim, "I didn't know!" The > requirement ensures that they were told. Listening is optional. No adult needs to be 'convinced' to wear a helmet. It's a choice that people make on their own. How many people here eat fatty foods or are overweight? How many people here smoke? :-) -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 12 08:03:24 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 08:03:12 EST Subject: Re: No Helmets in Virginia? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 2/11/2004 6:29:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, omni@XXXXXX writes: > Start prohibiting others > taking risks that we wouldn't assume ourselves, and someone else is going > to start prohibiting us taking risks we are perfectly happy with > Life is always fatal. The only choice is whether to use it to live, or > simply to exist. A-MEN! What I want to know is when the paradigm shifted from quality of life as a goal to quantity of life as the only goal. I for one will take quality of life over quantity anytime. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 12 08:27:50 2004 Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 08:27:46 -0500 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: No Helmets in Virginia? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >What I want to know is when the paradigm shifted from >quality of life as a goal to quantity of life as the only >goal. I for one will take quality of life over quantity >anytime. [Dave] When the country began electing, and repeatedly reelcting people determined to do everyone's thinking and decision making for everyone else. That is a far cry different from being a responsible legislator. When we became too lazy to get involved with the duties of society ourselves, and delegated that to paid politicos. You know, if helets are such a great idea for bikes, they'd be an even better idea for cages. Think of the CHILDREN! Imagine how many CHILDREN would be saved by simply wearing a full face baby-shoei in the car seat. CHILDREN are currently unprotected in side impacts, we must pass cage helmet laws FOR THE CHILDREN. Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 12 08:42:26 2004 From: To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: No Helmets in Virginia? Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 8:42:19 -0500 I think everyone should be required to wear outfits similar to lifevests that auto-magically inflate into big ole bouncing balls on impact. Everyone should always wear full face helmets that also inflate to 20 times their size with an airbag built into the interior of the chinstrap to protect ones face and all clothes much be made of a heavilly padded metal/mesh material. The only time you should be allowed to take off your helmet is when showering or brushing your teeth, and even them "Safety Guards" should be posted all around you to prevent any accidents from occuring while you're "exposed". Oh..and all vehicles over 100lbs should be made entirely out of soft squishy rubber and bits of foam. > > From: Dave Yates > Date: 2004/02/12 Thu AM 08:27:46 EST > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: No Helmets in Virginia? > > >What I want to know is when the paradigm shifted from > >quality of life as a goal to quantity of life as the only > >goal. I for one will take quality of life over quantity > >anytime. > > [Dave] When the country began electing, and repeatedly > reelcting people determined to do everyone's thinking and > decision making for everyone else. That is a far cry > different from being a responsible legislator. When we > became too lazy to get involved with the duties of society > ourselves, and delegated that to paid politicos. > > You know, if helets are such a great idea for bikes, they'd > be an even better idea for cages. Think of the CHILDREN! > Imagine how many CHILDREN would be saved by simply wearing a > full face baby-shoei in the car seat. CHILDREN are currently > unprotected in side impacts, we must pass cage helmet laws > FOR THE CHILDREN. > > > Dave Yates > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 12 09:11:51 2004 Subject: RE: No Helmets in Virginia? Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 09:11:42 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: , Actually, the jarring note for me was the comment about the driver/rider paying the sum of $1.00 to the DMV and then be allowed to ride helmetless. I had thought the growing concern and awareness of the helmet/non-helmet issue had to do with the hidden costs that were passed along to the public when uninsured unhelmeted rider takes a spill and ends up on life support. Now what I'd like to see is legislation that a driver must produce proof of catastrophic insurance coverage, sign a organ donor card, and then be allowed to ride without helmet. Heck, ride without clothes as far as I care! Of course, I also think the mandatory insurance provision should also be required to drive any vehicle over 4,000 pounds, but that's probably unrealistic... ;-) Robert -----Original Message----- From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX [mailto:PenguinBiker@XXXXXX] Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 8:03 AM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: No Helmets in Virginia? In a message dated 2/11/2004 6:29:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, omni@XXXXXX writes: > Start prohibiting others > taking risks that we wouldn't assume ourselves, and someone else is going > to start prohibiting us taking risks we are perfectly happy with > Life is always fatal. The only choice is whether to use it to live, or > simply to exist. A-MEN! What I want to know is when the paradigm shifted from quality of life as a goal to quantity of life as the only goal. I for one will take quality of life over quantity anytime. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 12 09:23:58 2004 Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 06:23:57 -0800 (PST) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Vanson Sale at New Enough. Don't know if y'all get New Enough's email updates or not, but they're running a closeout sale on some Vanson jackets: $400 for Mark 2 Lightning, Hurricane, and Satellites, $350 for the Mk 1 versions. More for the bigger folks. And, typically, the bike isn't running. Battery went tango uniform and neither of my chargers seem to work. Hmm. Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 12 10:18:39 2004 Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:18:17 -0500 From: Skip To: Mike Bartman CC: Paul Wilson , "Louis F. Caplan" , DC-Cycles Subject: Re: No Helmets in Virginia? Mike Bartman wrote: > > At 03:23 PM 2/11/04 -0500, Paul Wilson wrote: > > >Moreover, it suggests to our graduates that it's okey-dokey to ride > without a helmet once you pass our course. That's a bad idea, as it > suggests that the riding course is somehow a "magic pill" that you swallow > and become a "safe" driver that doesn't need to fool with kid > stuff like protective gear. The state will be in the position of > contradicting one of fundamentals of safer riding. > > That's one way to see it. I saw it a different way: > > "If you want to ride helmetless, you must first go take the safe rider > course, and let the instructors there tell you how vital it is to wear a > helmet at all times. If, after having experts tell you this, you STILL > want to ride without one, ok, it's a free country, and it's your funeral..." > > Don't know how many would see it your way, and how many mine...or how many > who see it my way would, like me, wear helmets anyway... One of the best things about America is that you are free to make bad decisions, and be held accountable for them... well, it used to be that way, anyway. --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 12 10:23:23 2004 Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:23:11 -0500 From: Skip To: adamme1@XXXXXX CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: No Helmets in Virginia? adamme1@XXXXXX wrote: > Oh..and all vehicles over 100lbs should be made entirely out of soft squishy rubber and bits of > foam. I think that there should be a 1 foot metal spike in the center of the steering wheel of all cars. think about how much more carefully you'd drive if the prospect of being impaled were graphically present! --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 12 10:24:40 2004 Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:24:23 -0500 From: Skip To: "Verde, Robert" CC: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: No Helmets in Virginia? "Verde, Robert" wrote: > > Actually, the jarring note for me was the comment about the driver/rider paying the sum of $1.00 to the DMV and then be allowed to ride helmetless. I had thought the growing concern and awareness of the helmet/non-helmet issue had to do with the hidden costs that were passed along to the public when uninsured unhelmeted rider takes a spill and ends up on life support. they're required to show evidence of medical insurance, right? how does the public incurr costs if they are insured? --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 12 10:31:42 2004 From: Jason Picton To: DC-Cycles Subject: TEKNIC LIGHTNING 2-PIECE For Sale Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:31:36 -0500 I recently bid on an won this suit on EBay TEKNIC LIGHTNING 2-PIECE SIZE 48 AMERICAN http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewItem&ite m=2455322669 The suit is BRAND NEW and normally goes for 599 - I got it for 315...Unfortunately, it's a bit small (I am 6ft tall 210lb - I wear a 46L Sport Coat and my waist is 36/38)... There is NO way I will ever fit it... If anyone is interested in for what I paid for it - I would rather see someone local get a great deal on it before I send it back... -Jason From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 12 10:32:21 2004 Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:32:13 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: No Helmets in Virginia? At 10:24 AM 2/12/2004, Skip wrote: >they're required to show evidence of medical insurance, right? how does the >public incurr costs if they are insured? If no one ever had accidents or problems, insurance would be incredibly cheap or unnecessary. We all pay for everyone else's mistakes. With my run of luck last year - YOU ALL are paying for MY mistakes. - Piece of wood sailed through front grill of new truck breaking A/C, grill - Fire took out the corner of our house - Hit and run on wife's car in traffic - Back surgery - 2 discs - etc.... ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 12 10:33:10 2004 Subject: Repairing a downed bike the chronicle Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:35:32 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: "Skip" , "Mike Bartman" Cc: "Paul Wilson" , "Louis F. Caplan" , "DC-Cycles" That fateful Sunday last when my '02 R6 ended up on it's left side. My research thus far may be of use when other people get in the same boat. Ronayers.com does not have Yamaha parts. Bikebandit saves me would charge $1122 for parts that Coleman charges $1348. The bandit quote does not include shipping. Battley's wanted to see the bike after being mailed pics. They agreed to make a rough estimate but have not called back. Crossroads cycle (interesting little shop) took a look yesterday (no charge and promised me an estimate later today. Fairing's ain't cheap that is for sure. I was thinking about carbon fiber levers for the bike. Anyone have anything really good or bad to say about carbon fiber parts? I don't recommend riding with a broken clutch lever in general and am EAGERLY awaiting the day when everything is repaired. With parts being fairly pricy I wonder what the difference would be if you compared the price of a bike with the sum total price of all it's individual parts. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 12 10:37:07 2004 Subject: RE: No Helmets in Virginia? Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:36:59 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Skip" Cc: , That's funny you should mention that. I went back to the e-mail sent by Michael Lynch, and although the quoted comment from Lingamfelter refers to meeting concerns about uninsured drivers, the bill itself doesn't mention insurance anywhere. Unless I'm missing something? Also I wasn't sure what kind of insurance the helmet-less rider is supposed to carry; automotive liability? I didn't think this covered the long-term care for a rider in a single-vehicle accident. Robert -----Original Message----- From: Skip [mailto:skip@XXXXXX] Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 10:24 AM To: Verde, Robert Cc: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: No Helmets in Virginia? "Verde, Robert" wrote: > > Actually, the jarring note for me was the comment about the driver/rider paying the sum of $1.00 to the DMV and then be allowed to ride helmetless. I had thought the growing concern and awareness of the helmet/non-helmet issue had to do with the hidden costs that were passed along to the public when uninsured unhelmeted rider takes a spill and ends up on life support. they're required to show evidence of medical insurance, right? how does the public incurr costs if they are insured? --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 12 10:47:15 2004 Subject: Screaming speedometer - belated update Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:47:07 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: I've been meaning to post a thank you to a fellow lister, and I'm afraid I've already deleted the post! I had reported hearing a shrill noise coming from the speedometer area after I replaced the cable, and someone suggested I use some silicone lubricant on the plastic gears. I followed the suggestion and aprayed a shot of lubricant inside the speedo cable attachment point on the housing. Worked like a charm, haven't heard a peep from the elctronics since then, despite lots of riding in sub-zero (Celsius) weather since then. Robert From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 12 10:48:35 2004 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Repairing a downed bike the chronicle Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:48:27 -0500 Think others mentioned R6 specific list, if you can find a race one, might be even better. Also check EBay. It's winter be patient, take your time, find deals. Think Colemans had some kind of 20% off coupon on their latest email flyer. If you want I can email that to you. >From: "Julian Halton" >To: "Skip" , "Mike Bartman" >CC: "Paul Wilson" , "Louis F. Caplan" >, "DC-Cycles" >Subject: Repairing a downed bike the chronicle >Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:35:32 -0500 > > >That fateful Sunday last when my '02 R6 ended up on it's left side. >My research thus far may be of use when other people get in the same >boat. > >Ronayers.com does not have Yamaha parts. >Bikebandit saves me would charge $1122 for parts that Coleman charges >$1348. The bandit quote does not include shipping. >Battley's wanted to see the bike after being mailed pics. They agreed >to make a rough estimate but have not called back. >Crossroads cycle (interesting little shop) took a look yesterday (no >charge and promised me an estimate later today. > >Fairing's ain't cheap that is for sure. I was thinking about carbon >fiber levers for the bike. Anyone have anything really good or bad to >say about carbon fiber parts? I don't recommend riding with a broken >clutch lever in general and am EAGERLY awaiting the day when everything >is repaired. With parts being fairly pricy I wonder what the difference >would be if you compared the price of a bike with the sum total price of >all it's individual parts. > > > > _________________________________________________________________ Let the advanced features & services of MSN Internet Software maximize your online time. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200363ave/direct/01/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 12 10:55:53 2004 Subject: RE: Repairing a downed bike the chronicle Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:58:14 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: "rich hall" , I would be curious to find a list. I am checking e-bay but have found little in the way of fairings. I hate e-bay sometimes. I swear members bid just to drive up prices -----Original Message----- From: rich hall [mailto:richallmc@XXXXXX] Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 10:48 AM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Repairing a downed bike the chronicle Think others mentioned R6 specific list, if you can find a race one, might be even better. Also check EBay. It's winter be patient, take your time, find deals. Think Colemans had some kind of 20% off coupon on their latest email flyer. If you want I can email that to you. >From: "Julian Halton" >To: "Skip" , "Mike Bartman" >CC: "Paul Wilson" , "Louis F. Caplan" >, "DC-Cycles" >Subject: Repairing a downed bike the chronicle >Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:35:32 -0500 > > >That fateful Sunday last when my '02 R6 ended up on it's left side. >My research thus far may be of use when other people get in the same >boat. > >Ronayers.com does not have Yamaha parts. >Bikebandit saves me would charge $1122 for parts that Coleman charges >$1348. The bandit quote does not include shipping. >Battley's wanted to see the bike after being mailed pics. They agreed >to make a rough estimate but have not called back. >Crossroads cycle (interesting little shop) took a look yesterday (no >charge and promised me an estimate later today. > >Fairing's ain't cheap that is for sure. I was thinking about carbon >fiber levers for the bike. Anyone have anything really good or bad to >say about carbon fiber parts? I don't recommend riding with a broken >clutch lever in general and am EAGERLY awaiting the day when everything >is repaired. With parts being fairly pricy I wonder what the difference >would be if you compared the price of a bike with the sum total price >of all it's individual parts. > > > > _________________________________________________________________ Let the advanced features & services of MSN Internet Software maximize your online time. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200363ave/direct/01/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 12 11:09:31 2004 Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 11:09:25 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: Julian Halton , rich hall , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Repairing a downed bike the chronicle Some folks on the VFR list have had good luck ordering bodywork from dealers in Canada, even doing complete bodywork swaps for color schemes not available in the USA. One of my favorites is DynamoHumm in Cowansville, PQ. www.dynamohumm.com It don't know if they handle OEM Yamaha parts though. There web site lists lots of aftermarket stuff for the R6. After my little incident last summer, I was able to get replacement bodywork from DynamoHumm for way less than any stateside supplier, including Ron Ayers. Paul in DC 95 VFR - 86 VF500F -----Original Message----- From: Julian Halton I would be curious to find a list. I am checking e-bay but have found little in the way of fairings. I hate e-bay sometimes. I swear members bid just to drive up prices -----Original Message----- From: rich hall [mailto:richallmc@XXXXXX] Think others mentioned R6 specific list, if you can find a race one, might be even better. Also check EBay. It's winter be patient, take your time, find deals. Think Colemans had some kind of 20% off coupon on their latest email flyer. If you want I can email that to you. ..... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 12 11:09:33 2004 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Repairing a downed bike the chronicle Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 11:09:24 -0500 Scooter, Witold, ST Maven, hook him up w/ the R6 list(s). Also try dcsportbikes.com & dcsportbikes.net Check WERA, NESBA, other race sites. Might look into some frame sliders too, $100 vs $1000. >From: "Julian Halton" >To: "rich hall" , >Subject: RE: Repairing a downed bike the chronicle >Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:58:14 -0500 > > >I would be curious to find a list. I am checking e-bay but have found >little in the way of fairings. > >I hate e-bay sometimes. I swear members bid just to drive up prices > > >-----Original Message----- >From: rich hall [mailto:richallmc@XXXXXX] >Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 10:48 AM >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: RE: Repairing a downed bike the chronicle > >Think others mentioned R6 specific list, if you can find a race one, >might be even better. >Also check EBay. It's winter be patient, take your time, find deals. >Think Colemans had some kind of 20% off coupon on their latest email >flyer. >If you want I can email that to you. > > >From: "Julian Halton" > >To: "Skip" , "Mike Bartman" > >CC: "Paul Wilson" , "Louis F. Caplan" > >, "DC-Cycles" > >Subject: Repairing a downed bike the chronicle > >Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:35:32 -0500 > > > > > >That fateful Sunday last when my '02 R6 ended up on it's left side. > >My research thus far may be of use when other people get in the same > >boat. > > > >Ronayers.com does not have Yamaha parts. > >Bikebandit saves me would charge $1122 for parts that Coleman charges > >$1348. The bandit quote does not include shipping. > >Battley's wanted to see the bike after being mailed pics. They agreed > >to make a rough estimate but have not called back. > >Crossroads cycle (interesting little shop) took a look yesterday (no > >charge and promised me an estimate later today. > > > >Fairing's ain't cheap that is for sure. I was thinking about carbon > >fiber levers for the bike. Anyone have anything really good or bad to > >say about carbon fiber parts? I don't recommend riding with a broken > >clutch lever in general and am EAGERLY awaiting the day when everything > > >is repaired. With parts being fairly pricy I wonder what the difference > > >would be if you compared the price of a bike with the sum total price > >of all it's individual parts. > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Let the advanced features & services of MSN Internet Software maximize >your online time. >http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200363ave/direct/01/ > > > > _________________________________________________________________ Click here for a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 12 11:12:30 2004 Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 11:12:26 -0500 From: "Chris Norloff" Reply-To: To: "List-dc cycles" Subject: seeking Suzuki DR350 seeking Suzuki DR350, 1995 to 1999 street legal, electric start, not a project bike within about 150 mi. of Washington, DC, area thanks, Chris Norloff chris@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 12 11:14:47 2004 From: To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX CC: Paul Wilson , "Louis F. Caplan" , DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Re: No Helmets in Virginia? Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 11:14:40 -0500 > > From: Skip > Date: 2004/02/12 Thu AM 10:18:17 EST > To: Mike Bartman > CC: Paul Wilson , > "Louis F. Caplan" , > DC-Cycles > Subject: Re: No Helmets in Virginia? > > Mike Bartman wrote: > > > > At 03:23 PM 2/11/04 -0500, Paul Wilson wrote: > > > > >Moreover, it suggests to our graduates that it's okey-dokey to ride > > without a helmet once you pass our course. That's a bad idea, as it > > suggests that the riding course is somehow a "magic pill" that you swallow > > and become a "safe" driver that doesn't need to fool with kid > > stuff like protective gear. The state will be in the position of > > contradicting one of fundamentals of safer riding. > > > > That's one way to see it. I saw it a different way: > > > > "If you want to ride helmetless, you must first go take the safe rider > > course, and let the instructors there tell you how vital it is to wear a > > helmet at all times. If, after having experts tell you this, you STILL > > want to ride without one, ok, it's a free country, and it's your funeral..." > > > > Don't know how many would see it your way, and how many mine...or how many > > who see it my way would, like me, wear helmets anyway... > > > One of the best things about America is that you are free to make bad decisions, > and be held accountable for them... > > well, it used to be that way, anyway. > ..actually I think the generation of kids we're raising now follows the mantra that "you can do anything and blame it on your parents." Our society is definately moving towards everything being someone elses fault. No body wants to take responsibility for their own actions. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 12 11:26:26 2004 Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 11:26:20 -0500 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Re: No Helmets in Virginia? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >..actually I think the generation of kids we're raising now >follows the mantra that "you can do anything and blame it on >your parents." > >Our society is definately moving towards everything being >someone elses fault. No body wants to take responsibility >for their own actions. [Dave] Well, they have a point. The 'current crop' of kids are going to be shouldering the financial and social burden for the previous generations probably for the duration of their lives. Thanks to our benevolent government, a good portion of their earnings will be redistributed so that we can enjoy the best that their tax dollars can buy... Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 12 11:40:53 2004 Subject: Re: Re: No Helmets in Virginia? From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 12 Feb 2004 11:37:20 -0500 On Thu, 2004-02-12 at 11:26, Dave Yates wrote: > >..actually I think the generation of kids we're raising now > >follows the mantra that "you can do anything and blame it on > >your parents." > > > >Our society is definately moving towards everything being > >someone elses fault. No body wants to take responsibility > >for their own actions. > > [Dave] Well, they have a point. The 'current crop' of kids > are going to be shouldering the financial and social burden > for the previous generations probably for the duration of > their lives. Thanks to our benevolent government, a good > portion of their earnings will be redistributed so that we > can enjoy the best that their tax dollars can buy... > That's why *I* had kids ;-) > > Dave Yates > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 12 11:43:49 2004 From: To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: No Helmets in Virginia? Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 11:43:42 -0500 > > From: Dave Yates > Date: 2004/02/12 Thu AM 11:26:20 EST > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Re: No Helmets in Virginia? > > > >..actually I think the generation of kids we're raising now > >follows the mantra that "you can do anything and blame it on > >your parents." > > > >Our society is definately moving towards everything being > >someone elses fault. No body wants to take responsibility > >for their own actions. > > [Dave] Well, they have a point. The 'current crop' of kids > are going to be shouldering the financial and social burden > for the previous generations probably for the duration of > their lives. Thanks to our benevolent government, a good > portion of their earnings will be redistributed so that we > can enjoy the best that their tax dollars can buy... > > > Dave Yates ..it's always been that way though Dave. Our tax dollars are paying for what our parents generation spent. Our generation continues to pay for the costs of the Viet Nam war and as a tax paying adult, we'll continue to pay for the Gulf War as well. Society always pays their debt in the arrears. What I'm saying is that as a society, we're moving more and more towards a blameless society. It's always someone elses fault for the errant behavior of a single individual. How many court cases have been turned because someone made a case that the defendant acted out of something that was triggered from his past? How about the lady who sued because she was too stupid to know that coffee is *hot*? Or the guy who wanted to sue because, after eating years of junk food, became a big fat porky pig? -aki From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 12 12:01:09 2004 Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 11:54:39 -0500 To: , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Re: No Helmets in Virginia? At 08:42 AM 2/12/04 -0500, adamme1@XXXXXX wrote: >I think everyone should be required to wear outfits similar >to lifevests that auto-magically inflate into big ole bouncing balls on impact. Full-body airbags? Ok...should they be designed to deflate into body-bags to save time for the cleanup crews in those cases where they aren't enough? >Everyone should always wear >full face helmets that also inflate to 20 times their size with an airbag built into the interior of the chinstrap >to protect ones face and all clothes much be made of a heavilly padded metal/mesh material. How about a full suit of medieval armor, with foot-mounted 'chutes for emergency braking once thrown? With modern materials they could double as mugger protection. Or maybe we should just rubber-coat the entire planet and ban all sharp rocks and thorny plants? If we just eliminate enough threats, everyone will live forever! Right? Right? >The only time you should be allowed to take off your helmet is when showering or brushing your teeth, and even them "Safety Guards" should be posted all around you to prevent any accidents from occurring while you're "exposed". Not showering...do you know how many accidents happen in the shower?? Are you *nuts*?!? >Oh..and all vehicles over 100lbs should be made entirely out of soft squishy rubber and bits of foam. Or maybe soap bubbles? -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 12 12:01:10 2004 Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 11:48:00 -0500 To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: No Helmets in Virginia? At 08:03 AM 2/12/04 EST, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: >In a message dated 2/11/2004 6:29:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, >omni@XXXXXX writes: > >> Start prohibiting others >> taking risks that we wouldn't assume ourselves, and someone else is going >> to start prohibiting us taking risks we are perfectly happy with > >> Life is always fatal. The only choice is whether to use it to live, or >> simply to exist. > >A-MEN! Thanks! Nice to know I'm not alone in that opinion. Sometimes it seems like it. :^) >What I want to know is when the paradigm shifted from quality of life as a >goal to quantity of life as the only goal. >I for one will take quality of life over quantity anytime. Live fast, love hard, die young and leave a beautiful corpse? :^) -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 12 12:01:23 2004 Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 12:01:09 -0500 To: "Verde, Robert" , , From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: No Helmets in Virginia? At 09:11 AM 2/12/04 -0500, Verde, Robert wrote: >I had thought the growing concern and awareness of the helmet/non-helmet issue had to do with the hidden costs that were passed along to the public when uninsured unhelmeted rider takes a spill and ends up on life support. What about riders who wear helmets and end up the same way? Same argument applies to any riding...or driving, or walking, flying, skiiing, diving, taking trains, sailing, and sitting at home on the couch watching Babewatch. *Everyone* takes some sort of risk that some others don't, and we all end up taking on some extra costs as a result. That's the price of freedom and altruism. Seems cheap at twice the price to me. >Now what I'd like to see is legislation that a driver must produce proof of catastrophic insurance coverage, sign a organ donor card, and then be allowed to ride without helmet. Same argument could be applied to all riders...and drivers, walkers, pilots, skiers, etc., etc.. >Heck, ride without clothes as far as I care! Now you're talking! Just ignore the mayor of Daytona Beach! :^) >Of course, I also think the mandatory insurance provision should also be required to drive any vehicle over 4,000 pounds, but that's probably unrealistic... ;-) Why 4000 pounds? Why not "any vehicle" period? 2 tons seems pretty arbitrary to me. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 12 12:07:23 2004 Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 12:07:28 -0500 To: Fish Flowers , DC-Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Vanson Sale at New Enough. At 06:23 AM 2/12/04 -0800, Fish Flowers wrote: >And, typically, the bike isn't running. Battery went tango uniform and >neither of my chargers seem to work. Hmm. If the chargers aren't broken too, it sounds like new battery time. Letting batteries get very low on charge can kill them, particularly with moto batteries, or so I've read. Moto batteries are small, so the plates are closer together than in a car battery. Lead sulfide, which forms as batteries discharge, can grow on the plates and bridge them, causing a short and interfering with re-charging. Keep the battery near full charge all the time and this isn't a problem, hence the popularity of Battery Tenders (tm). Lead Sulfide is also weaker than lead, so if you get some formed from a low charge, and then there's any sort of shock or vibration that is strong enough to knock it off, it flakes off to the bottom of the case, and the plates are eroded. Too much of that and they won't hold a good charge anymore either. One reason why batteries die of old age, and last longer if kept near full charge all the time. Or so I've read. I haven't opened up a lot of dead batteries myself to check on it. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 12 12:18:12 2004 Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 12:13:27 -0500 To: Troutman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: No Helmets in Virginia? At 10:32 AM 2/12/04 -0500, Troutman wrote: >At 10:24 AM 2/12/2004, Skip wrote: >>they're required to show evidence of medical insurance, right? how does the >>public incurr costs if they are insured? > >If no one ever had accidents or problems, insurance would be incredibly >cheap or unnecessary. We all pay for everyone else's mistakes. With my >run of luck last year - YOU ALL are paying for MY mistakes. Only if we buy insurance from a carrier that insures people like you. :^) The company I use will drop people for bad driving, and charges those who only occasionally screw up more for their policies, so the load gets shifted to those actually causing the problems, leaving my rates (as a good driver) pretty reasonable. What extra I do pay for those who are good drivers who get unlucky or momentarily stupid (can happen to anyone...) I just count as part of the deal for being able to drive without taking on the entire risk for me all by myself...if I thought it was cheaper to "self-insure", I could do that by posting a bond (last time I looked anyway). Freedom ain't free. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 12 12:18:18 2004 Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 12:18:19 -0500 To: , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Re: No Helmets in Virginia? At 11:43 AM 2/12/04 -0500, adamme1@XXXXXX wrote: >What I'm saying is that as a society, we're moving more and more towards a blameless society. It's always someone elses fault for the errant behavior of a single individual. Yep, we've already moved there I think. The funny part is that, probably due to lack of math education, nobody seems to realize that this plan makes them responsible for *everything*... :^) -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 12 12:20:02 2004 Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 12:19:58 -0500 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Re: No Helmets in Virginia? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >> [Dave] Well, they have a point. The 'current crop' of kids >> are going to be shouldering the financial and social burden >> for the previous generations probably for the duration of >> their lives. Thanks to our benevolent government, a good >> portion of their earnings will be redistributed so that we >> can enjoy the best that their tax dollars can buy... >> >> >> Dave Yates > > >..it's always been that way though Dave. Our tax dollars are paying for what our parents generation spent. Our generation continues to pay for the costs of the Viet Nam war and as a tax paying adult, we'll continue to pay for the Gulf War as well. Society always pays their debt in the arrears. > [Dave] Yes, you are correct. It just seems to me that the current crop of government seems to be very adept - far too adept - at redistributing our earnings to whom they deem needs it more, no matter if they actually do or don't. >What I'm saying is that as a society, we're moving more and more towards a blameless society. It's always someone elses fault for the errant behavior of a single individual. >How many court cases have been turned because someone made a case that the defendant acted out of something that was triggered from his past? How about the lady who sued because she was too stupid to know that coffee is *hot*? >Or the guy who wanted to sue because, after eating years of junk food, became a big fat porky pig? [Dave] And I will not even presume to play the devil's advocate in this discussion, because I agree with you. It's tough to feel good about my tax money when I see the guy in front of me in the grocery line buying 4 porterhouse steaks, potato chips and a case of sodas with food stamps... Or after having worked as a contractor for the Fed for a few years. It's staggering how much money the NIH CIT flushes down the toilet every year, and I'm sure they're reflective of other agencies... It's a victimhood society Aki, so you and I had better get together and think up who's responsible for our woes and start blaming them now, so we can get our lawsuits rolling.... Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 12 12:22:24 2004 Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 12:22:20 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: adamme1@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: No Helmets in Virginia? -----Original Message----- From: adamme1@XXXXXX What I'm saying is that as a society, we're moving more and more towards a blameless society. It's always someone elses fault for the errant behavior of a single individual. How many court cases have been turned because someone made a case that the defendant acted out of something that was triggered from his past? How about the lady who sued because she was too stupid to know that coffee is *hot*? Or the guy who wanted to sue because, after eating years of junk food, became a big fat porky pig? -aki ------- It's far from a "blameless" society, I should think. More like the "blame the other guy" society. This is what Harold Bloom had in mind in his book "The American Religion." (1992) No, we're not talking Christianity, Judaism or any traditional religion, we're talking about the maximum expression of the self. That is, we are only true to ourselves as unique individuals when unfettered by artificial strictures. Therefore, the idea that we are beset by oppressive social constructions, devilish individuals or money-grubbing corporations and that said evil-doers are to blame for our failures, limitations and pratfalls is an attractive one. Only problem is (well, not the *only* problem I guess!) is that folks want maximum expression of their free will as free people, but they steadfastly refuse to accept the maximum responsibility that goes hand in glove with that concept. But that's a problem as old as mankind itself and unlikely to be solved any time soon. :) So, here's to our hypothetical biker, who wants the wind in his hair, but not the consequences of that choice. Paul in DC 95 VFR - 86 VF500F From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 12 12:26:01 2004 Subject: RE: Random non-moto rant (Was: Re: No Helmets in Virginia?) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 12:25:23 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Dave Yates" , Heaven (non-secular reference) forbid we should actually spend any public assistance funds on educating people to know what is good for their health! After all, that might adversely impact Big Business (TM), or be considered restraint of trade! What's the mantra of the Beef Association? "Beef, it's what's for dinner." Robert -----Original Message----- From: Dave Yates [mailto:Dave@XXXXXX] Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 12:20 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: No Helmets in Virginia? [Dave] And I will not even presume to play the devil's advocate in this discussion, because I agree with you. It's tough to feel good about my tax money when I see the guy in front of me in the grocery line buying 4 porterhouse steaks, potato chips and a case of sodas with food stamps... Or after having worked as a contractor for the Fed for a few years. It's staggering how much money the NIH CIT flushes down the toilet every year, and I'm sure they're reflective of other agencies... It's a victimhood society Aki, so you and I had better get together and think up who's responsible for our woes and start blaming them now, so we can get our lawsuits rolling.... Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 12 13:07:05 2004 Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 13:07:02 -0500 From: Dave Yates Subject: RE: Random non-moto rant (Was: Re: No Helmets in Virginia?) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Heaven (non-secular reference) forbid we should actually spend any public assistance funds on educating people to know what is good for their health! After all, that might adversely impact Big Business (TM), or be considered restraint of trade! What's the mantra of the Beef Association? "Beef, it's what's for dinner." > ... [Dave] Just to clarify, CIT is their center for information technology ( quite a misnomer, I assure you ). They have exactly zip to do with any medical research, or any public general good. The center is dedicated to running out their 20 year stints so they can retire. Most of their sysprogs can't even read a dump. Their operators sleep, on the job, in broad daylight. 'twas antiquated when I left, and about 2- 3 years behind on 1 of their systems, but about 5-7 years behind on the rest. Although, their LAN was pretty current. The medical research and facilities are completely independent of the computer center(s), and it's a shame that Gore didn't insist that NIH's computer center be absorbed into a more modern one. He was very, very close. Don't mess with the campus cops either! They have their own mobile command center ! ;-) It's staggering how much money the NIH CIT flushes >down the toilet every year, and I'm sure they're reflective >of other agencies... Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 12 13:18:05 2004 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'DCCycles'" Cc: "'mriderleon@XXXXXX'" Subject: News flash: Leon Burns Stabil Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 13:23:17 -0500 Begeman Lamented: "Anyway, short answer is that I'm confined to a cage for the next month or so. " Just in time for "Sand in the corners season" Heal well Leon. Sorry to read about your mishap. Newbies take notes. Don't be that guy. Fri Feb 13 Sunny 48^[)BM-0/29M-0 0 % Sat Feb 14 Partly Cloudy / Wind 52^[)BM-0/21M-0 10 % Bad Carl in thawing and refreezing Bethesda From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 12 13:37:57 2004 Subject: More off-topic random rants (Was: RE: No Helmets in Virginia?) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 13:37:47 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Mike Bartman" , , Riders who wear appropriate safety gear are less likely to end up on life support, all things being equal. Therefore there is a a valid argument on purely monetary grounds (similar to suits brought against tobacco companies) that states have a vested interest in making sure safety gear is worn, otherwise states can incur increased costs for providing medical care for this high-risk group. I was also amused at the note in the proposed legislation that riders caught not wearing helmets and not having paid their one dollar to the DMV be assessed only twenty-five dollars, and no points on license. Yeah, that's a deterrent, all right. I picked four thousand pounds as a point where cars can be made relatively safe to impacts from each other, but not from 8,000+ pound road tanks. I fail to see the need (note I said need, not "desire") to drive behemoths on the road and yet have no legal recognition of the far greater potential risk to other drivers. If I wanted to drive a deuce-and-a-half as my daily commuter, I would expect that I would automatically be found at fault in any traaffic altercation with a smaller vehicle. Robert -----Original Message----- From: Mike Bartman [mailto:omni@XXXXXX] Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 12:01 PM To: Verde, Robert; PenguinBiker@XXXXXX; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: No Helmets in Virginia? At 09:11 AM 2/12/04 -0500, Verde, Robert wrote: >I had thought the growing concern and awareness of the helmet/non-helmet issue had to do with the hidden costs that were passed along to the public when uninsured unhelmeted rider takes a spill and ends up on life support. What about riders who wear helmets and end up the same way? Same argument applies to any riding...or driving, or walking, flying, skiiing, diving, taking trains, sailing, and sitting at home on the couch watching Babewatch. *Everyone* takes some sort of risk that some others don't, and we all end up taking on some extra costs as a result. That's the price of freedom and altruism. Seems cheap at twice the price to me. Same argument could be applied to all riders...and drivers, walkers, pilots, skiers, etc., etc.. Now you're talking! Just ignore the mayor of Daytona Beach! :^) Why 4000 pounds? Why not "any vehicle" period? 2 tons seems pretty arbitrary to me. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 12 13:47:57 2004 Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 13:47:51 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: cvkgpena@XXXXXX Reply-To: cvkgpena@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Daytona party Everyone, Jay and Lisa Goddard are having a Daytona party. My invitation said to pass along to all my friends. I guess I consider the list as "friends." %^) Cheers, Chuck Hey Chuck, We are having a Daytona open house. Motorcycle Leather Exchange's First Annual Daytona Party Saturday March 6th 10:00 till 5:00 We are hosting an Open house and everybody is invited!! The racing starts at 10:30AM, the Main Race (The Daytona 200) starts 1:30PM. TVs and motorcycle gear everywhere! This will be a great chance to try on some new gear or bring us a trade-in. Our entire inventory will be on hand and available for sale. There will be plenty of beverages (soda and beer), snacks and lunch (from the BBQ) throughout the afternoon. Please call us toll free at 1-866-817-RIDE (7433) or email us at Jay@XXXXXX for directions. Please feel free to pass this invite on to all your friends, the more the merrier. Thanks and we look forward to seeing you! From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 12 14:37:18 2004 Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 14:36:54 -0500 From: Skip To: Troutman CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: No Helmets in Virginia? Troutman wrote: > > At 10:24 AM 2/12/2004, Skip wrote: > >they're required to show evidence of medical insurance, right? how does the > >public incurr costs if they are insured? > > If no one ever had accidents or problems, insurance would be incredibly > cheap or unnecessary. We all pay for everyone else's mistakes. With my > run of luck last year - YOU ALL are paying for MY mistakes. > > - Piece of wood sailed through front grill of new truck breaking A/C, grill > - Fire took out the corner of our house > - Hit and run on wife's car in traffic > - Back surgery - 2 discs > - etc.... if they haven't raised your rates, I need to sign up with them! you know why insurance is so cheap on your house? you can't get all liquored up and take it our for a spin. :~) --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 12 14:43:21 2004 Subject: RE: No Helmets in Virginia? Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 14:45:42 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: "Skip" , "Troutman" Cc: Whats your insurance co? -----Original Message----- From: Skip [mailto:skip@XXXXXX] Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 2:37 PM To: Troutman Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: No Helmets in Virginia? Troutman wrote: > > At 10:24 AM 2/12/2004, Skip wrote: > >they're required to show evidence of medical insurance, right? how > >does the public incurr costs if they are insured? > > If no one ever had accidents or problems, insurance would be > incredibly cheap or unnecessary. We all pay for everyone else's > mistakes. With my run of luck last year - YOU ALL are paying for MY mistakes. > > - Piece of wood sailed through front grill of new truck breaking A/C, > grill > - Fire took out the corner of our house > - Hit and run on wife's car in traffic > - Back surgery - 2 discs > - etc.... if they haven't raised your rates, I need to sign up with them! you know why insurance is so cheap on your house? you can't get all liquored up and take it our for a spin. :~) --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 12 15:01:23 2004 Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 15:01:10 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: RE: No Helmets in Virginia? At 02:45 PM 2/12/2004, Julian Halton wrote: >Whats your insurance co? USAA. If you can get it, keep it. But unless you are military, government or dependant of one, you can't get it. Personally I have had nothing but good experiences with USAA for the last 15 years. Home (1) , Auto (3 + bike) and Life (2). ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 12 15:01:41 2004 Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 15:00:29 -0500 To: "Verde, Robert" , , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: More off-topic random rants (Was: RE: No Helmets in Virginia?) At 01:37 PM 2/12/04 -0500, Verde, Robert wrote: >Riders who wear appropriate safety gear are less likely to end up on life support, all things being equal. Therefore there is a a valid argument on purely monetary grounds (similar to suits brought against tobacco companies) that states have a vested interest in making sure safety gear is worn, otherwise states can incur increased costs for providing medical care for this high-risk group. The problem with that is that the very same argument can be used to justify banning motorcycles, and any other "high-risk" activity that isn't engaged in by a large majority of the population. Divide and conquer...attack only minorities and you won't lose your elected position. Pick things that sound like you are improving safety, cutting costs, and "Doing Good", and so long as it doesn't affect *most* people, you will gain, not lose, votes. Doesn't matter that it reduces freedom, increase the size, power and cost of government, or even if it violates the Constitution...it will help you get re-elected, and there are always short-sighted people who will support you vocally if you go after their pet peeve. We start with helmet laws, because that seems harmless enough, improves safety, and the non-helmet riders are a small enough minority to be essentially powerless to resist. Once we have a precedent for the "safety is primary, freedom is something we can't afford / if it saves just one life" ideas, we can move on and eliminate the next big risk item that's only used by a minority: sport bikes. These aren't transportation...they are race machines that belong only on a race track ridden by professionals. After that, custom cruisers...overpowered, flashy, and noisy. Then maybe we can ban all bikes, once we've reduced the constituency with the other bans. After that: sports cars! Nobody has a *NEED* to drive anything other than a 30 hp 1000 lb 4 seater for people under 5'10" tall...that's the majority anyway...the rest are helpless minorities that we can safely ignore...and it's for their own good anyway. Once we've eliminated those folks, we'll shrink the cars a bit more, and once we have most people riding public transit, we'll just ban all private forms of transportation and leave the driving to the professionals only. Preferably under strict government control. It's for the children after all, and will help fight terrorism...can't have car bombs without cars! Sound farfetched? So would the idea of banning guns 50 years ago...and there have already been suggestions that private vehicles be banned inside the beltway...that public transit is sufficient for all. These morons aren't being taken very seriously *yet*, but the fact that they made the suggestions, and got any media coverage for it at all, shows that the toe is in the doorway, and many of the arguments are the same ones you make for use on your pet peeve about helmets. Since I'm not short-sighted, stupid or ignorant, I oppose helmet laws...though I'd never ride on the street without one, regardless of what the laws said. Ditto for seat belt laws, drug laws, and any other law designed to protect me from myself with the excuse that it costs the public money when people are stupid. Yes, that's true, so long as the public insists on paying those costs (they don't have to you know...it's a voluntary decision), but the costs, in terms of freedom if nothing else, of trying to outlaw stupidity are just too great to consider and I will always oppose any such efforts. >I picked four thousand pounds as a point where cars can be made relatively safe to impacts from each other, but not from 8,000+ pound road tanks. There aren't very many 4000 lb cars left anymore. Most are under that these days, and highway death toll hasn't really changed much in my lifetime. The government that you seem to want mandating safety for all has required that they be shrunk well below safe limits for decades. They are now so small that some of us can't fit in them at all anymore, and so we are forced to buy expensive larger vehicles and get called names by stupid and ignorant liberal types. You can make cars relatively safe to impact from each other at almost any weight you care to name. Two 60 ton M-1 Abrams tanks probably wouldn't hurt each other in a collision any more than two Chevy Novas would. My mom was driving a 6000 lb '74 Cougar XR-7 when she was hit from behind (while stopped) by a Lincoln doing 50+, and other than some pulled back muscles and a bruised shin, she was fine. The car was an accordion up to the rear axle, but both my mom and the kid driving the Lincoln were relatively unhurt...and neither car was very close to your magic "safety number" weight-wise. The problem isn't mass, it's difference in mass. Since we can't eliminate large vehicles and still have an economy (ships and railroads can't do what trucks do, and your plumber isn't going to be able to bring what's needed in a Honda Civic), making cars smaller is making them less safe. I knew a guy in college whose grandmother wrecked her car, and the semi she hit, and walked away. That worked with her 1950-something DeSoto, but it wouldn't work at all with any sedan made today. They are too small and weak, and a much larger vehicle will shred them. Size Does Matter...and bigger is better. >I fail to see the need (note I said need, not "desire") to drive behemoths on the road and yet have no legal recognition of the far greater potential risk to other drivers. What's a "behemoth" to you? Anything bigger than an R6? How about my Jeep Grand Cherokee? I have a NEED for that sort of vehicle, since I CAN'T fit into the micro-miniturized CAFE standard cars the government has saddled us with over the last 30 years. I tried a number of them before I got the Jeep. I even tried some small pickups (Toyota, Nissan) and they were too small to drive too. Less room than my old '68 VW bug. Safety isn't just a size thing either. My well-maintained, ABS-equipped, new tire sporting, 4-wheel disc brake bearing Jeep, driven by me with almost 30 years road experience is a lot less likely to get into an accident than that little old drum-brake car with the bald tires that hasn't seen a mechanic in years, being driven by the inexperienced, but overconfident, kid who thinks the laws don't apply to him, and who never did take physics because that was for "braniacs" only. Park your prejudice and start taking measurements and doing some math, eh? >f I wanted to drive a deuce-and-a-half as my daily commuter, I would expect that I would automatically be found at fault in any traffic altercation with a smaller vehicle. Then you'd be wrong. Responsibility for accidents is based on performance of the driver, not weight class of the vehicle. Just because you drive a Honda CVCC doesn't mean you are automatically blameless...though a lot of Honda drivers certainly seem to think it works that way based on how they drive... -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 12 15:13:34 2004 Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 15:12:27 -0500 To: Troutman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: No Helmets in Virginia? At 03:01 PM 2/12/04 -0500, Troutman wrote: >At 02:45 PM 2/12/2004, Julian Halton wrote: >>Whats your insurance co? > >USAA. If you can get it, keep it. But unless you are military, government >or dependant of one, you can't get it. Personally I have had nothing but >good experiences with USAA for the last 15 years. Me too, but maybe I should ask them to drop you! :^) >Home (1) , Auto (3 + bike) and Life (2). Home (1) , Auto (1 + bike). -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 12 15:57:04 2004 Subject: RE: More off-topic random rants (Was: RE: No Helmets in Virginia?) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 15:56:56 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Mike Bartman" , , Sure, taken to extremes, any argument fails. It's called reductio ad absurdem, if I recall correctly. Reduce to absurdity, in other words. Politicians like to point to a body of legislation proposed by themselves, just as wonks do in the private sector, "publish or perish." One of the popular targets for any sort of proposed legislation is the safety sector, as no one should argue against the merits of a measure that seeks to ensure more safety, right? However, most legislation of this sort is either passed because there is no effective outcry in opposition (witness the number of legal restrictions on the sub-voting age group, for instance) or where there is a clearly perceived good to the community. In Oregon, for instance, last I heard there was pending legislation designed to recoup the costs of mountain rescues and "lost hiker" searches, effectively making the hiker/mountaineer responsible for the costs associated with their rescue. Safety gear for high-risk pursuits is one the also passes with regularity, as the benefits are percieved to outweigh the costs. Floatation devices for boaters, EPIRBs for larger boats, fall under the same category as having enough life-boats on cruise ships to hold all the passengers. Personally, I think these fall under the category of "good things" and I'd tend to approve of legislators that propose such regulations, especially when the regs have actual teeth. However, given the beauty of our legislative mechanisms, you can have your lobbyist take the Right Honorable Senator on a golf outing, and get nifty tailored exemptions for your favorite chemical company or hand-gun manufacturer. I suspect that sports bikes fall pretty far down the continuum of potential restrictive legislation. We can already buy bikes capable of breaking 200mph, and the license to ride one of these is the same as for a vintage Indian Scout. Doesn't seem overly oppresive to me. Bikes take up less road space, use less gas (on average) and pollute... well, most bikes pollute more than cars. ;-) For the rest of your post, I find myself at a bit of a loss. I was pointing out in my post an opposing viewpoint, and mentioning examples that seem topical to me. Banning all private vehicles from DC? A sound idea, given the desire for the inhabitants of fifty states and 200 or so countries to visit the nation's capitol once in a while. Several European cities, admittedly ones that have been around for a century or so longer than DC, require visitors to park at the outskirts. We've got Metro, after all. Banning guns a new idea? Sullivan Act (circa 1911) looks to have some gun-banning implications to me. 4,000 pound cut-off? Admittedly arbitrary, the Acura TL comes in under that point, the Audi A6 is over that weight. I realize it's a differential mass issue, but thanks for pointing it out. My little bro, at a hair over 6'6", fits fine in a Nissan King Cab, weighing in a svelte #3302. I used to drive a Dodge Dakota, weighing considerably more, and gave it up due to the lame gas mileage and no rea need for it in the urban jungle. This is all just list chatter of course, but I wanted to note that my comments, bothersome as they apparently are to you, sure didn't seem to merit getting jumped on with both (figurative) feet. Just exercising the liberty you espouse so profusely, and voicing my approval of an alternate viewpoint. If you wanted to debate the merits of your argument with me, you were more than welcome to respond off line. If you just wanted to squash any potential mutters of a left-leaning nature on a shared semi-public forum, you've shown you can try. By the way, no one else bothered to respond to my dangerous views, so I think the list is safe. ;-) Robert -----Original Message----- From: Mike Bartman [mailto:omni@XXXXXX] Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 3:00 PM To: Verde, Robert; PenguinBiker@XXXXXX; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: More off-topic random rants (Was: RE: No Helmets inVirginia?) At 01:37 PM 2/12/04 -0500, Verde, Robert wrote: >Riders who wear appropriate safety gear are less likely to end up on life support, all things being equal. Therefore there is a a valid argument on purely monetary grounds (similar to suits brought against tobacco companies) that states have a vested interest in making sure safety gear is worn, otherwise states can incur increased costs for providing medical care for this high-risk group. The problem with that is that the very same argument can be used to justify banning motorcycles, and any other "high-risk" activity that isn't engaged in by a large majority of the population. Divide and conquer...attack only minorities and you won't lose your elected position. Pick things that sound like you are improving safety, cutting costs, and "Doing Good", and so long as it doesn't affect *most* people, you will gain, not lose, votes. Doesn't matter that it reduces freedom, increase the size, power and cost of government, or even if it violates the Constitution...it will help you get re-elected, and there are always short-sighted people who will support you vocally if you go after their pet peeve. We start with helmet laws, because that seems harmless enough, improves safety, and the non-helmet riders are a small enough minority to be essentially powerless to resist. Once we have a precedent for the "safety is primary, freedom is something we can't afford / if it saves just one life" ideas, we can move on and eliminate the next big risk item that's only used by a minority: sport bikes. These aren't transportation...they are race machines that belong only on a race track ridden by professionals. After that, custom cruisers...overpowered, flashy, and noisy. Then maybe we can ban all bikes, once we've reduced the constituency with the other bans. After that: sports cars! Nobody has a *NEED* to drive anything other than a 30 hp 1000 lb 4 seater for people under 5'10" tall...that's the majority anyway...the rest are helpless minorities that we can safely ignore...and it's for their own good anyway. Once we've eliminated those folks, we'll shrink the cars a bit more, and once we have most people riding public transit, we'll just ban all private forms of transportation and leave the driving to the professionals only. Preferably under strict government control. It's for the children after all, and will help fight terrorism...can't have car bombs without cars! Sound farfetched? So would the idea of banning guns 50 years ago...and there have already been suggestions that private vehicles be banned inside the beltway...that public transit is sufficient for all. These morons aren't being taken very seriously *yet*, but the fact that they made the suggestions, and got any media coverage for it at all, shows that the toe is in the doorway, and many of the arguments are the same ones you make for use on your pet peeve about helmets. Since I'm not short-sighted, stupid or ignorant, I oppose helmet laws...though I'd never ride on the street without one, regardless of what the laws said. Ditto for seat belt laws, drug laws, and any other law designed to protect me from myself with the excuse that it costs the public money when people are stupid. Yes, that's true, so long as the public insists on paying those costs (they don't have to you know...it's a voluntary decision), but the costs, in terms of freedom if nothing else, of trying to outlaw stupidity are just too great to consider and I will always oppose any such efforts. >I picked four thousand pounds as a point where cars can be made relatively safe to impacts from each other, but not from 8,000+ pound road tanks. There aren't very many 4000 lb cars left anymore. Most are under that these days, and highway death toll hasn't really changed much in my lifetime. The government that you seem to want mandating safety for all has required that they be shrunk well below safe limits for decades. They are now so small that some of us can't fit in them at all anymore, and so we are forced to buy expensive larger vehicles and get called names by stupid and ignorant liberal types. You can make cars relatively safe to impact from each other at almost any weight you care to name. Two 60 ton M-1 Abrams tanks probably wouldn't hurt each other in a collision any more than two Chevy Novas would. My mom was driving a 6000 lb '74 Cougar XR-7 when she was hit from behind (while stopped) by a Lincoln doing 50+, and other than some pulled back muscles and a bruised shin, she was fine. The car was an accordion up to the rear axle, but both my mom and the kid driving the Lincoln were relatively unhurt...and neither car was very close to your magic "safety number" weight-wise. The problem isn't mass, it's difference in mass. Since we can't eliminate large vehicles and still have an economy (ships and railroads can't do what trucks do, and your plumber isn't going to be able to bring what's needed in a Honda Civic), making cars smaller is making them less safe. I knew a guy in college whose grandmother wrecked her car, and the semi she hit, and walked away. That worked with her 1950-something DeSoto, but it wouldn't work at all with any sedan made today. They are too small and weak, and a much larger vehicle will shred them. Size Does Matter...and bigger is better. >I fail to see the need (note I said need, not "desire") to drive behemoths on the road and yet have no legal recognition of the far greater potential risk to other drivers. What's a "behemoth" to you? Anything bigger than an R6? How about my Jeep Grand Cherokee? I have a NEED for that sort of vehicle, since I CAN'T fit into the micro-miniturized CAFE standard cars the government has saddled us with over the last 30 years. I tried a number of them before I got the Jeep. I even tried some small pickups (Toyota, Nissan) and they were too small to drive too. Less room than my old '68 VW bug. Safety isn't just a size thing either. My well-maintained, ABS-equipped, new tire sporting, 4-wheel disc brake bearing Jeep, driven by me with almost 30 years road experience is a lot less likely to get into an accident than that little old drum-brake car with the bald tires that hasn't seen a mechanic in years, being driven by the inexperienced, but overconfident, kid who thinks the laws don't apply to him, and who never did take physics because that was for "braniacs" only. Park your prejudice and start taking measurements and doing some math, eh? >f I wanted to drive a deuce-and-a-half as my daily commuter, I would expect that I would automatically be found at fault in any traffic altercation with a smaller vehicle. Then you'd be wrong. Responsibility for accidents is based on performance of the driver, not weight class of the vehicle. Just because you drive a Honda CVCC doesn't mean you are automatically blameless...though a lot of Honda drivers certainly seem to think it works that way based on how they drive... -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 12 15:58:50 2004 Reply-To: From: "stephen" To: Subject: RE: Repairing a downed bike the chronicle Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 15:58:17 -0500 Check the classifieds on http://venus.13x.com/roadracingworld/. You're lucky .. the R6 is a commonly raced bike and the racers will all take the stock bodywork off and replace it with cheaper fiberglass. They often sell the plastic to pay for racing. Alternately, you could just replace your plastic with fiberglass. If so, you'll have a hard time beating the price and fit from: Body Double Premium Fiber Glass & Performance Accessories Binbrook, Ontario L0R 1C0 Phone: (905) 692-4201 Locals http://www.neighborofthebeast.com/home.shtml race R6's. You might try getting in touch with Melissa and asking her if she has plastic left, or knows where to get it. She's in Australia this week and next though, but will probably be answering her emails. Carbon Fiber Levers sound like a wickedly cool idea so long as they're made well. If they're crappy, they could fast-fracture and disintegrate in a crash, or even under use, though they'd have to be REALLY crappy for that. I imagine they're REALLY pricey too. I don't know what they're charging, but consider purchasing a spare aluminum one (or ten) for the same price and keeping spare with you if you're really that worried about it. Mostly, you can probably run home easily without a clutch, and with a LOT of caution using only the rear brake (and keeping the speed to < 15 mph). My $.02 Stephen From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 12 16:36:25 2004 Reply-To: From: "stephen" To: Subject: Anyone have an XL/XR 600 rear rim? Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 16:35:50 -0500 I just picked up a basket-case '84 XL600R that's missing some parts. Firstly and foremost, I need a rear rim (axle to rubber) and secondarily, I'm looking for a seat. The latter, I can probably fake, but an absence of the former is going to leave me with a powerless unicycle. :-0 Thought I'd post locally before hitting national lists. Stephen From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 12 16:39:04 2004 Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 16:38:19 -0500 To: "Verde, Robert" , , From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: More off-topic random rants (Was: RE: No Helmets in Virginia?) At 03:56 PM 2/12/04 -0500, Verde, Robert wrote: >Sure, taken to extremes, any argument fails. It's called reductio ad absurdum, if I recall correctly. Reduce to absurdity, in other words. I don't believe you are recalling correctly. The idea in reductio ad absurdam is that if you assume the argument's opposite, and that opposite leads to a logical contradiction, then the argument must be true (law of the excluded middle...i.e. if it isn't false, it must be true). Reductio ad absurdam is not a universally accepted proof. There's a description of all this at: http://www.web-dictionary.org/encyclopedia/re/Reductio_ad_absurdam.html There is nothing about reductio ad absurdam that says that any argument taken to extremes fails, nor do I think that extending your logic about helmet laws to cover bikes themselves is all that extreme. It's almost inevitable that someone will try it, and they may very well have some success. The same arguments fit both. Accept them in one case and you will have a really hard time rejecting them in the other. "First they came with helmet laws, and I did nothing, for I always wore a helmet anyway. Then they came for the sport bikes, and I did nothing, for I didn't ride a sport bike. Then they came for the custom cruisers, and I did nothing for I couldn't afford one anyway, then..." etc. (if that doesn't seem familiar at all, do a Google for "Reverend Niemoller", or go to: http://www.remember.org/witness/links.let.niem.html) >One of the popular targets for any sort of proposed legislation is the safety sector, as no one should argue against the merits of a measure that seeks to ensure more safety, right? Obviously not. We're arguing about it now. >I suspect that sports bikes fall pretty far down the continuum of potential restrictive legislation. We can already buy bikes capable of breaking 200mph, and the license to ride one of these is the same as for a vintage Indian Scout. Doesn't seem overly oppressive to me. It isn't...for now. Keep up the reports of hooliganism on loud annoying sport bikes, fatal crashes on scenic mountain roads from people racing on the public highways, and the public will be ripe for some electorial-wannabe to go after them as his personal "cause". It's happened with lots of things, and bikes are not likely to be exceptions. It's best not to let a precedent like that happen in the first place. >Bikes take up less road space, use less gas (on average) and pollute... well, most bikes pollute more than cars. ;-) All true. Many other things that are under serious attack (cough...guns...cough) have even more important public benefits, but that isn't preventing heavy restrictions and even bans. It's amazing how putty-like public opinion is when you filter the news... >Banning guns a new idea? Sullivan Act (circa 1911) looks to have some gun-banning implications to me. Actually the first gun restrictions happened only a few years after the War Between The States. They were racist things intended to prevent blacks from getting guns to defend themselves against lynch mobs...and they were no more Constitutional than the ones being passed these days, but they only restricted a minority, so nobody objected and a precedent was created that was later extended to everyone. Boil those frogs slowly. >My little bro, at a hair over 6'6", fits fine in a Nissan King Cab, weighing in a svelte #3302. I, at just about 6'6" exactly, do not. Didn't fit the Toyota T1000 either. Body to leg ratio matters a lot when you are near the limits. Heck, I didn't fit in most smaller SUVs either (Mitsubishi Montero, Nissan Pathfinder (I owned a '92, by '98 they'd shrunk it enough that I couldn't drive the newer ones), Toyota Roadrunner, and Isuzu Trooper were all too cramped to fit into for one reason or another. Sometimes (usually) it was head room, but some, like the Monterro, it was shin room (speakers hanging out the bottom of the dash). I can't fit into the more recent Jeep Grand Cherokee's either BTW...after '98 they lowered the roof line to reduce air resistance, and now there isn't enough for me to sit in it, let alone drive. Looks like a full-size pickup will be my next vehicle. That or I restore an old 50's or 60's adult-sized car. Heck, I didn't fit on a Harley Softail without modifications to the controls either. Everything seems to be shrinking...except today's kids. The trends are going to have to reverse eventually as they start voting. >This is all just list chatter of course, but I wanted to note that my comments, bothersome as they apparently are to you, sure didn't seem to merit getting jumped on with both (figurative) feet. We disagree on that too, apparently. >Just exercising the liberty you espouse so profusely, and voicing my approval of an alternate viewpoint. And I was doing the same to point out the flaws and dangers in that viewpoint. >By the way, no one else bothered to respond to my dangerous views, so I think the list is safe. ;-) You must have missed the several responses to the "helmet laws are ok" idea that I read then. You, of course, didn't see the approving off-line comments I got from a couple of folks about some of what I said either. Why you would think the list was in danger I have no idea... -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 12 17:07:13 2004 Subject: RE: More off-topic random ranting Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 17:07:04 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Mike Bartman" , , Hmmm... I think I see where I went wrong. {Excerpted interchange from long harangue below:} [RV] Just exercising the liberty you espouse so profusely, and voicing my approval of an alternate viewpoint. [MB] And I was doing the same to point out the flaws and dangers in that viewpoint. I think that kind of sums it up, don't you? I've run afoul of the arbiter of list wisdom, and I'm getting my smack-down in the aforementioned public forum. Well, smack away, it's all electrons to me... ;-) Robert PS: Note that I said absolutely nothing of importance to 99.something% of the list, and please consider taking your inevitable reply off-list. This is getting more than faintly ridicoulous. -----Original Message----- From: Mike Bartman [mailto:omni@XXXXXX] Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 4:38 PM To: Verde, Robert; PenguinBiker@XXXXXX; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: More off-topic random rants (Was: RE: No Helmets inVirginia?) At 03:56 PM 2/12/04 -0500, Verde, Robert wrote: >Sure, taken to extremes, any argument fails. It's called reductio ad absurdum, if I recall correctly. Reduce to absurdity, in other words. I don't believe you are recalling correctly. The idea in reductio ad absurdam is that if you assume the argument's opposite, and that opposite leads to a logical contradiction, then the argument must be true (law of the excluded middle...i.e. if it isn't false, it must be true). Reductio ad absurdam is not a universally accepted proof. There's a description of all this at: http://www.web-dictionary.org/encyclopedia/re/Reductio_ad_absurdam.html There is nothing about reductio ad absurdam that says that any argument taken to extremes fails, nor do I think that extending your logic about helmet laws to cover bikes themselves is all that extreme. It's almost inevitable that someone will try it, and they may very well have some success. The same arguments fit both. Accept them in one case and you will have a really hard time rejecting them in the other. "First they came with helmet laws, and I did nothing, for I always wore a helmet anyway. Then they came for the sport bikes, and I did nothing, for I didn't ride a sport bike. Then they came for the custom cruisers, and I did nothing for I couldn't afford one anyway, then..." etc. (if that doesn't seem familiar at all, do a Google for "Reverend Niemoller", or go to: http://www.remember.org/witness/links.let.niem.html) >One of the popular targets for any sort of proposed legislation is the safety sector, as no one should argue against the merits of a measure that seeks to ensure more safety, right? Obviously not. We're arguing about it now. >I suspect that sports bikes fall pretty far down the continuum of potential restrictive legislation. We can already buy bikes capable of breaking 200mph, and the license to ride one of these is the same as for a vintage Indian Scout. Doesn't seem overly oppressive to me. It isn't...for now. Keep up the reports of hooliganism on loud annoying sport bikes, fatal crashes on scenic mountain roads from people racing on the public highways, and the public will be ripe for some electorial-wannabe to go after them as his personal "cause". It's happened with lots of things, and bikes are not likely to be exceptions. It's best not to let a precedent like that happen in the first place. >Bikes take up less road space, use less gas (on average) and pollute... well, most bikes pollute more than cars. ;-) All true. Many other things that are under serious attack (cough...guns...cough) have even more important public benefits, but that isn't preventing heavy restrictions and even bans. It's amazing how putty-like public opinion is when you filter the news... >Banning guns a new idea? Sullivan Act (circa 1911) looks to have some gun-banning implications to me. Actually the first gun restrictions happened only a few years after the War Between The States. They were racist things intended to prevent blacks from getting guns to defend themselves against lynch mobs...and they were no more Constitutional than the ones being passed these days, but they only restricted a minority, so nobody objected and a precedent was created that was later extended to everyone. Boil those frogs slowly. >My little bro, at a hair over 6'6", fits fine in a Nissan King Cab, weighing in a svelte #3302. I, at just about 6'6" exactly, do not. Didn't fit the Toyota T1000 either. Body to leg ratio matters a lot when you are near the limits. Heck, I didn't fit in most smaller SUVs either (Mitsubishi Montero, Nissan Pathfinder (I owned a '92, by '98 they'd shrunk it enough that I couldn't drive the newer ones), Toyota Roadrunner, and Isuzu Trooper were all too cramped to fit into for one reason or another. Sometimes (usually) it was head room, but some, like the Monterro, it was shin room (speakers hanging out the bottom of the dash). I can't fit into the more recent Jeep Grand Cherokee's either BTW...after '98 they lowered the roof line to reduce air resistance, and now there isn't enough for me to sit in it, let alone drive. Looks like a full-size pickup will be my next vehicle. That or I restore an old 50's or 60's adult-sized car. Heck, I didn't fit on a Harley Softail without modifications to the controls either. Everything seems to be shrinking...except today's kids. The trends are going to have to reverse eventually as they start voting. >This is all just list chatter of course, but I wanted to note that my comments, bothersome as they apparently are to you, sure didn't seem to merit getting jumped on with both (figurative) feet. We disagree on that too, apparently. >Just exercising the liberty you espouse so profusely, and voicing my approval of an alternate viewpoint. And I was doing the same to point out the flaws and dangers in that viewpoint. >By the way, no one else bothered to respond to my dangerous views, so I think the list is safe. ;-) You must have missed the several responses to the "helmet laws are ok" idea that I read then. You, of course, didn't see the approving off-line comments I got from a couple of folks about some of what I said either. Why you would think the list was in danger I have no idea... -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 12 17:18:07 2004 Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 17:18:05 -0500 To: "Verde, Robert" , , From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: More off-topic random ranting At 05:07 PM 2/12/04 -0500, Verde, Robert wrote: >Hmmm... I think I see where I went wrong. No, you didn't. You can't. It just isn't in you. Apparently. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 12 17:31:20 2004 Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 17:47:18 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Bike Grab (RE: More off-topic) On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, Verde, Robert wrote: > PS: Note that I said absolutely nothing of importance to 99.something% of the list, and please consider taking your inevitable reply off-list. This is getting more than faintly ridicoulous. > 2 things amaze me... no, make that 3. 1. the most prolific posters on the list can't figure out how to avoid posting off-topic threads, despite constant reminders from Harry 2. Robert included that entire post from Bartman at the end of his short post. 3. Bartman responds to every list post. :-) OBMoto - The Bike Grab I picked up from Gary rocks. Since my bike sits so low, it's a bit unstable on the sidestand when prepped for racing. The Bike Grab holds the bike upright without having to drag out the rear stand. Thanks for the great transaction, Gary. Good luck with the 1k :-) -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 12 17:33:24 2004 From: "Michael Jordan" To: "'DC-Cycles'" Subject: RE: No Helmets in Virginia? Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 17:33:20 -0500 > One of the best things about America is that you are free to > make bad decisions, and be held accountable for them... > > well, it used to be that way, anyway. I was about to say "What are you, some kind of radical?", but you caught yourself in time. Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 12 17:54:00 2004 Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 17:54:05 -0500 To: Wayne Edelen , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Bike Grab (RE: More off-topic) At 05:47 PM 2/12/04 -0500, Wayne Edelen wrote: >3. Bartman responds to every list post. >:-) I do not! :^) >OBMoto - The Bike Grab I picked up from Gary rocks. Since my bike sits so Is that for use only in the garage, or can it, like another similar product I've seen, be bolted to a trailer for use in transport too? -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 13 08:44:19 2004 Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 08:44:12 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: cvkgpena@XXXXXX Reply-To: cvkgpena@XXXXXX To: Mike Bartman , Wayne Edelen , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Bike Grab (RE: More off-topic) Mike, The Bike Grab can be bolted down to virtually any surface. So yes, it can be used on a trailer. If I remember correctly, the Bike Grab web page shows such a set-up. And the best thing about using the Bike Grab on a trailer is that you don't need to compress the forks when you tie it down. Chuck -----Original Message----- From: Mike Bartman Sent: Feb 12, 2004 5:54 PM To: Wayne Edelen , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Bike Grab (RE: More off-topic) At 05:47 PM 2/12/04 -0500, Wayne Edelen wrote: >3. Bartman responds to every list post. >:-) I do not! :^) >OBMoto - The Bike Grab I picked up from Gary rocks. Since my bike sits so Is that for use only in the garage, or can it, like another similar product I've seen, be bolted to a trailer for use in transport too? -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 13 11:13:55 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 11:13:47 EST Subject: Re: More off-topic random rants (Was: RE: No Helmets in Virginia?) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 2/12/2004 1:38:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, Robert.Verde@XXXXXX writes: < RE: More off-topic random rants> I do not think so. The "Must be safe to protect society" concept is _very_ relevant to those of us who participate in a sport that some see as highly risky. > Riders who wear appropriate safety gear are less likely to end up on life > support, all things being equal. Until they get to the nursing home. Where society can pay for full time nursing while they sit drooling with shit in their diapers*. Follow all the "safety" rules/laws and die like that? No thanks. Following all the rules only _delays_ the cost and often increases it. *No wish to offend anyone, some will live to be that old anyhow and have a legitimate need for that kind of care. But it is sure as hell not my goal in life. Loud pipes quell cells. 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 13 11:52:12 2004 Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 11:49:16 -0500 To: cvkgpena@XXXXXX, Wayne Edelen , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Bike Grab (RE: More off-topic) At 08:44 AM 2/13/04 -0500, cvkgpena@XXXXXX wrote: >Mike, > >The Bike Grab can be bolted down to virtually any surface. So yes, it can be used on a trailer. If I remember correctly, the Bike Grab web page shows such a set-up. And the best thing about using the Bike Grab on a trailer is that you don't need to compress the forks when you tie it down. Thanks for the info. It looks nicer than the aluminum one I saw at a Battley's open house (the name of which escapes me, and a quick Google search didn't turn it up), though that one looked easier to bolt down (mostly angle construction). The Battley one also handled a Road King easily, was simple to adjust for different size bikes, and was stable enough that even without being bolted down, the sales guy could roll a Road King into it, then stand (both feet) on the left foot board and bounce, without tipping the bike over. Price seems to be similar, though I think the Bike Grab is a little cheaper. If I ever see that other one again, I'll note the name and post it here. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 13 12:40:13 2004 Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:40:03 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Bike Grab To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Regarding the Bike-Grab, which plates do you keep mounted to it, the fronts or the rears? If the rears, are they so small that they can't work effectively on the front wheel> I'm thinking of getting one, and imagine I'd leave the front plates on, so I could roll into it and then use a regular bike stand on the rear for single-person indoor chain maintenance and such. Mike, maybe you are referring to the L A Chock competitive product? (http://www.baxleycompanies.com/LAChock.html, list $275) Anyone else have any experience with that? Thanks -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 13 14:07:45 2004 Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 14:07:58 -0500 To: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Bike Grab At 09:40 AM 2/13/04 -0800, pltrgyst@XXXXXX wrote: >Mike, maybe you are referring to the L A Chock competitive product? >(http://www.baxleycompanies.com/LAChock.html, list $275) Anyone else have any >experience with that? No, that's not it. With the Google search I turned up half a dozen similar products, with various prices and features, but not the one I was looking for. The one I saw looks like it's made of aircraft aluminum angle and C-channel. It's got a wide (2.5' or so) cross-brace on the ground perpendicular to the bike to prevent side tipping, a slightly longer bit on the ground that runs under the front tire that everything attaches to, and a vertical part that is sort of a tire-stop that runs up vertically from where the other two parts cross. There's a teeter-totter wheel holder that over-centers and cups the front wheel from behind when the bike is loaded in. The "cupper" can be adjusted along the bottom C-channel part by moving the axle to different pre-drilled holes. There are bolt-down holes in the C-channel and cross-brace parts, and places to hook tie-down straps on the cross brace ends (I think...wasn't looking so closely at that part of it). It's not that complicated looking, and it almost looks like you could make it yourself with some basic shop tools and the raw extrusions...though it would take some figuring or trial and error without plans or an example to work from. I think the cost was in the $150 range, but since I wasn't shopping for it, I didn't pay that much attention to it. I don't think Battley's was selling them...there was a guy there who did though, and he was also running the 9/11 Scholarship Ride table (charity thing). If anyone is interested, I can find out how to get hold of him. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 13 17:04:03 2004 Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 14:03:55 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Bike Grab To: Mike Bartman Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > The one I saw looks like it's made of aircraft aluminum angle and > C-channel. It's got a wide (2.5' or so) cross-brace on the ground > perpendicular to the bike to prevent side tipping, a slightly longer bit on > the ground that runs under the front tire that everything attaches to, and > a vertical part that is sort of a tire-stop that runs up vertically from > where the other two parts cross. There's a teeter-totter wheel holder that > over-centers and cups the front wheel from behind when the bike is loaded > in. The "cupper" can be adjusted along the bottom C-channel part by moving > the axle to different pre-drilled holes. There are bolt-down holes in the > C-channel and cross-brace parts, and places to hook tie-down straps on the > cross brace ends (I think...wasn't looking so closely at that part of it). I think there was one like that in the new products section of one of this month's mags -- maybe Rider. I'll check when I get home tonight. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 13 17:54:27 2004 Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 14:54:14 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Bike Grab To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" wrote: > I think there was one like that in the new products section of one of this > month's mags -- maybe Rider. I'll check when I get home tonight. Nope, sorry -- it was the Baxley Sport Chock, in the February '-4 RoadRunner magazine. Very nice, but expensive -- $275 list. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Feb 14 01:02:49 2004 From: "Gary Foreman" To: Subject: Gots me a new toy :-) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 01:04:07 -0500 $9200 out the door guys! Talk to Kevin at Romney Cycle. Make sure you tell him where you heard it! http://www.gwfweb.com/cycles/040213 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Feb 14 09:43:03 2004 Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 09:58:54 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Gots me a new toy :-) On Sat, 14 Feb 2004, Gary Foreman wrote: > $9200 out the door guys! Talk to Kevin at Romney Cycle. Make sure you tell > him where you heard it! > > http://www.gwfweb.com/cycles/040213 Looks great, Gary. Congrats on the new ride. -- Wayne From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Feb 14 09:54:51 2004 Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 06:54:42 -0800 (PST) From: Buster Rockville Subject: Pickup Truck - A Good Way to Transport Your Bike? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Hello, I'm thinking about getting a small pick-em-up truck (e.g. Tacoma) to haul my 450 lb ZX6, but I have no experience with this. Is this a good way to haul a bike? How difficult (in your opinion) is it to get the bike up into the bed? Is it possible for a 5'5", 145 lbs person to get it up there by him/herself? My bike is (I think) about 5 feet long. How long should the bed be to facilitate getting it up there? Any advise would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance! Jeff from Rockville. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Feb 14 11:30:37 2004 Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:16:51 -0500 (EST) From: dan To: Buster Rockville cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Pickup Truck - A Good Way to Transport Your Bike? > I'm thinking about getting a small pick-em-up truck > (e.g. Tacoma) to haul my 450 lb ZX6, but I have no > experience with this. > > Is this a good way to haul a bike? > > How difficult (in your opinion) is it to get the bike > up into the bed? Is it possible for a 5'5", 145 lbs > person to get it up there by him/herself? > > My bike is (I think) about 5 feet long. How long > should the bed be to facilitate getting it up there? > I can load any of my bikes into the bed of my truck by myself including my portly 750+lbs Road King. I've got two folding ramps, I use one to walk up and the other to slowly throttle/clutch up the ramp. Getting it up is much easier than going down (minds outta the gutter!). You'll want a friend or two around so you can practice, but once you get good at it, it goes fairly easily. A Taco will work fine as long as its not the quad cab. You will have to drive with the tailgate down unless you get a longbed truck. Regards, Dan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Feb 14 13:14:48 2004 Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 13:30:37 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Bike Grab I snapped some pics today of some new vehicle mods, including the Bike Grab that I got from Gary. You can see them here - http://www.ls6.net/misc/021404/ The Bike Grab works as advertised. Definately easier than hoisting the bike up on the rear stand and I don't have to worry about it falling off the sidestand on to my car (I need a shorter sidestand) :-) -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Feb 14 13:14:56 2004 Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 13:14:38 -0500 From: Dale Horstman To: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, Leon Begeman Subject: Re: Interesting - Leon's accident ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: > > You also don't have to reach out the window to wipe off > the windshield if it starts to rain. You haven't seen some of Leon's cages, have you? :) Sorry to hear about the accident, Leon. Heal quickly. Horkster -- Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark) Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX '98 Concours - BugSlayer Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth '99 Concours - Grape Nehi CM #001 NRA IBA COG '82 GS850G - Neat old bike The Mason Dixon 20-20 Endurance Rally: The Games People Play Come join us in 2004: http://www.masondixon20-20.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Feb 14 16:31:02 2004 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Buster Rockville , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Pickup Truck - A Good Way to Transport Your Bike? Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 16:32:48 -0500 I have an S10 Xtreme and it rocks for hauling the bike, it lower to the ground so it's easier to get bike in the bed. But I always needed help to hold the bike up once I get it in the bed. I just use 4 racketing tie downs and compress the forks and it's not going anywhere. If you get anything that has a higher up bed your gonna need a pretty big ramp or lots of help. Here are some pictures of how I put the bike in the truck. http://www.sharpie.org/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album36&id=IMG_0909 The VFR need quite a bit of push to get it up my 8 foot ramp into the bed. I know the ZX6 is lighter but even when I had a HawkGT (even lighter) I could just barely manage to get it up and down by myself. I think the most ideal way to haul a bike is a little trailer. Also a wheel choke or a "Bike Grab" will make it easy to haul and require less compression of the forks to keep it from jumping around on bumps/ On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 06:54:42 -0800 (PST), Buster Rockville wrote > Hello, > > I'm thinking about getting a small pick-em-up truck > (e.g. Tacoma) to haul my 450 lb ZX6, but I have no > experience with this. > > Is this a good way to haul a bike? > > How difficult (in your opinion) is it to get the bike > up into the bed? Is it possible for a 5'5", 145 lbs > person to get it up there by him/herself? > > My bike is (I think) about 5 feet long. How long > should the bed be to facilitate getting it up there? > > Any advise would be greatly appreciated! > > Thanks in advance! > > Jeff from Rockville. > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Feb 14 17:13:40 2004 From: "Rob Sharp" To: dan , Buster Rockville Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Pickup Truck - A Good Way to Transport Your Bike? Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 17:15:28 -0500 Good Idea Dan, I always just push mine up with Human power. Rob On Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:16:51 -0500 (EST), dan wrote > > I'm thinking about getting a small pick-em-up truck > > (e.g. Tacoma) to haul my 450 lb ZX6, but I have no > > experience with this. > > > > Is this a good way to haul a bike? > > > > How difficult (in your opinion) is it to get the bike > > up into the bed? Is it possible for a 5'5", 145 lbs > > person to get it up there by him/herself? > > > > My bike is (I think) about 5 feet long. How long > > should the bed be to facilitate getting it up there? > > > > I can load any of my bikes into the bed of my truck by myself > including my portly 750+lbs Road King. I've got two folding ramps, > I use one to walk up and the other to slowly throttle/clutch up the > ramp. Getting it up is much easier than going down (minds outta the > gutter!). You'll want a friend or two around so you can practice, > but once you get good at it, it goes fairly easily. A Taco will > work fine as long as its not the quad cab. You will have to drive > with the tailgate down unless you get a longbed truck. > > Regards, > > Dan -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Feb 14 17:47:23 2004 Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 17:47:46 -0500 To: "Rob Sharp" , Buster Rockville , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Pickup Truck - A Good Way to Transport Your Bike? At 04:32 PM 2/14/04 -0500, Rob Sharp wrote: >But I always needed help to hold the bike up once I get it in the bed. Something like that Bike Grab would probably eliminate that need. On a ride to Thurmont this morning I ran into the guy who was selling those similar units I couldn't remember the name of the other day. "Condor" is it. Info here (upper left corner of the page): http://www.condor-lift.com/ BTW, the ride to Thurmont (back roads up through Damascus and Walkersville, 15/I270 home) was nice this morning/afternoon. Only saw one patch of ice/snow, and that was on a little two-lane in a shady spot. A couple of other wet patches from snow melt, but other than that, dry roads everywhere. The bike didn't get all covered in salt like it did last Tuesday either. Temps were lower than advertised, but only my toes suffered from my listening to the weather reports rather than the calendar. Oh, there are lots of new and growing potholes on the little two lanes, mostly near the edge of the roads. Plenty of good lane left, but something to watch for, especially when riding in formation like I was. > I just use 4 racketing tie downs and Was that a typo? If not, you're a darn good word smith! I like that one! :^) -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Feb 14 19:09:18 2004 Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 16:09:14 -0800 (PST) From: Buster Rockville Subject: Re: Pickup Truck - A Good Way to Transport Your Bike? To: Rob Sharp , dan Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Thanks everybody for all your time and thought on this! A lot of good suggestions to think about! Jeff from Rockville --- Rob Sharp wrote: > Good Idea Dan, I always just push mine up with > Human power. > > Rob > > On Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:16:51 -0500 (EST), dan wrote > > > I'm thinking about getting a small pick-em-up > truck > > > (e.g. Tacoma) to haul my 450 lb ZX6, but I have > no > > > experience with this. > > > > > > Is this a good way to haul a bike? > > > > > > How difficult (in your opinion) is it to get the > bike > > > up into the bed? Is it possible for a 5'5", 145 > lbs > > > person to get it up there by him/herself? > > > > > > My bike is (I think) about 5 feet long. How > long > > > should the bed be to facilitate getting it up > there? > > > > > > > I can load any of my bikes into the bed of my > truck by myself > > including my portly 750+lbs Road King. I've got > two folding ramps, > > I use one to walk up and the other to slowly > throttle/clutch up the > > ramp. Getting it up is much easier than going > down (minds outta the > > gutter!). You'll want a friend or two around so > you can practice, > > but once you get good at it, it goes fairly > easily. A Taco will > > work fine as long as its not the quad cab. You > will have to drive > > with the tailgate down unless you get a longbed > truck. > > > > Regards, > > > > Dan > > > -- > Rob Sharp > 1996 Honda VFR 750 > 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme > SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA > Network Security Engineer > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 15 00:27:30 2004 Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 21:26:51 -0800 (PST) From: matthew patton Subject: Re: Pickup Truck - A Good Way to Transport Your Bike? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > http://www.condor-lift.com/ it's funny how all of these guys claim patents in their name yet the mechanicals are practically identical. Either they don't have patents or they have some really shitty patents and the USPTO is doing a lousy job of finding prior art (not exactly surprising). They are about 30mi from my house. Heh. ===== * A successful marriage isn't finding the right person; it's being the right person. * To forgive is to set the prisoner free and then discover the prisoner was you. * Liberalism always generates the exact opposite of its stated intent. - Jim Quinn (WRRK) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 15 07:35:21 2004 From: "Jeff Hughes" To: Subject: RE: Pickup Truck - A Good Way to Transport Your Bike? Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 07:35:22 -0500 << I'm thinking about getting a small pick-em-up truck (e.g. Tacoma) to haul my 450 lb ZX6, but I have no experience with this. Is this a good way to haul a bike? >> As the others have mentioned, pickups of most any size will work fine for transporting your bike. One last suggestion is to use something like an LA Chock, or the slightly smaller Sport Chock, (http://www.baxleycompanies.com) allowing you to simply ride slowly up into the bed of the truck and into the chock, instantly stablizing the bike. Then, when you tie it down, there's no need to put much compression into your fork springs - which, if you do and you're then travelling for a signficant number of hours, will degrade those springs. There's no need to attach the chock to the truck itself - I just place mine in the bed on those occasions when it's needed. A little pricey (like most things of quality), but very much recommended... Jeff From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 15 08:33:56 2004 Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 20:19:52 -0500 (EST) From: dan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Pickup Truck - A Good Way to Transport Your Bike? On Sat, 14 Feb 2004, Rob Sharp wrote: > so it's easier to get bike in the bed. But I always needed help to hold the > bike up once I get it in the bed. I just use 4 racketing tie downs and > compress the forks and it's not going anywhere. If you get anything that has > a higher up bed your gonna need a pretty big ramp or lots of help. > I always get the bike in the bed, put the kickstand down, put on the left tie down on and tigheten just snug. Then I go over to the right side, put on the tie down, and yank it down. It lifts the bike of the stand and centers it. No help needed holding anything. Dan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 15 09:37:35 2004 Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 06:37:27 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Pickup Truck - A Good Way to Transport Your Bike? To: matthew patton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- matthew patton wrote: > > > http://www.condor-lift.com/ > > it's funny how all of these guys claim patents in their name yet the > mechanicals are practically identical. Either they don't have patents > or they have some really shitty patents... Or they have a patent, like most patents, with extremely narrow scope; or they have a "design patent", which protects only the appearance and design of a product, rather than a "utility patent," which protects an actual invention. Most companies which have only design patents still claim in their ads "patent pending" or "patented", which is somewhat deceptive, but not illegal. >... and the USPTO is doing a lousy > job of finding prior art (not exactly surprising). That too is possible, particularly in a field like computer hw or sw, but highly unlikely in a relatively simple mechanical area like lifts or stands. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 15 09:39:31 2004 Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 09:39:10 -0500 From: Brian Roach To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Pickup Truck - A Good Way to Transport Your Bike? The Baxley chock is an excellent product, and will make your life simple .... but I wanted to comment on ... >Then, when you tie it down, there's no need to put much >compression into your fork springs - which, if you do and you're then >travelling for a signficant number of hours, will degrade those springs. > > This is a wives' tale. A spring (not just in your bike) will return to its orignial form and release all its stored energy as long as its elastic limit isn't exceeded. By design, motorcycle forks will "bottom out" long before the springs are compressed passed their elastic limit. If you've ever hit a big pothole and heard that horrible ::clunk:: noise from the front forks ... that's what I'm talking about. :) If the forks weren't designed this way, every time that happened you'd damage your springs and they'd need to be replaced. We (and everyone we race with) travel thousands of miles each year for racing with the bikes firmly strapped down in trailers for hours on end, sometimes for multiple days if the trip involves an overnight stop. - Roach From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 15 10:09:15 2004 Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 07:08:58 -0800 (PST) From: matthew patton Subject: Re: Pickup Truck - A Good Way to Transport Your Bike? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > >travelling for a signficant number of hours, will degrade those > springs. > > > This is a wives' tale. true. it's more important IMO to make sure you're not just yanking on the front-end and twist the forks. I tie off to the lower fork tubes or tripleclamb but lightly. ===== * A successful marriage isn't finding the right person; it's being the right person. * To forgive is to set the prisoner free and then discover the prisoner was you. * Liberalism always generates the exact opposite of its stated intent. - Jim Quinn (WRRK) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 15 11:07:45 2004 From: "Jeff Hughes" To: Subject: RE: Pickup Truck - A Good Way to Transport Your Bike? Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 11:07:45 -0500 << This is a wives' tale >> Fork and shock springs, like most tensile metals, will degrade over time simply as a byproduct of being used. That's why we have to replace them periodically. Imparting significant, constant, compression for long periods of time - a la the typical "cinch it down so she won't move" strategy - will very much accelerate that wear rate. Take a bike with a reasonably fresh set of fork springs, and measure the free sag. Then cinch it down hard in a truck or trailer and drive to Daytona. Check it again when you get down there and you'll almost certainly see a measurable difference. Whether that difference is noticeable to the rider - even a club racer - is another question altogether. That all said, if I didn't have a means of free-stabilizing the bike, I'd certainly err on the side of cinching it down hard. I'd much rather lose a bit of fork spring compliance than risk the damage that might result if the bike kicked loose. Best, Jeff From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 15 11:37:29 2004 Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 11:37:18 -0500 From: Brian Roach To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Pickup Truck - A Good Way to Transport Your Bike? Jeff Hughes wrote: > << This is a wives' tale >> > > Fork and shock springs, like most tensile metals, will degrade over time > simply as a byproduct of being used. Erm, no ... they don't. The only time something degrades is if it is stressed, or damaged in some other way (corrosion, heat/cold ext reams, etc). Often, a part (metal or non-metal) is used in such a way that it does get stressed (or damaged/worn) and will need to be replaced - this is a consumable item. A fork spring isn't stressed unless it is compressed or expanded beyond its elastic limit (or exposed to extreme heat or cold). Physics dictate this. The forks won't allow this to happen. A fork spring is not a consumable item. Example: The steel beams in a house don't sag over time. They were engineered to bear a far greater load than they are, and to withstand the normal temperature variances your house will experience. The only way you'll possibly compress a fork spring beyond its elastic limit is to really screw up putting in after market springs and not cut the spacers correctly to ensure the assembled length of the fork internals is the same as it was with the stock springs. - Roach From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 15 15:02:28 2004 Subject: RE: Gots me a new toy :-) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 19:46:41 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Gary Foreman" , Congratulations! And a grand weekend to put a few miles on it, to boot! Robert -----Original Message----- From: Gary Foreman [mailto:lists@XXXXXX] Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 1:04 AM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Gots me a new toy :-) $9200 out the door guys! Talk to Kevin at Romney Cycle. Make sure you tell him where you heard it! http://www.gwfweb.com/cycles/040213 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 16 01:03:32 2004 From: "Gary Foreman" To: Subject: Spam! FS: 1999 Suzuki TL1000R Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 01:04:47 -0500 10K miles and mint condition. If you know me, you know I take care of my bikes. Synthetic changed every 2k, Complete valve adjustment at 8K, Perfectly tuned. Clutch replaced 500 miles ago, and found out it was just the lever needing lubed and adjusted. So you still get a new clutch and Barnett springs. Fender Eliminator installed. Galfer steel braided lines front and back. Never down, never damaged, never wheelied! ALWAYS Garaged! I have complete records of all the maintenance. $5800, in Winchester, VA. Gary Foreman gforeman@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 16 09:27:12 2004 Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 06:27:03 -0800 (PST) From: matthew patton Subject: I don't believe I just saw what I did To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX It was 14F when I left my house a little before 8am for the ride up. My toes are stiff and wooden as I walk across from CGNorth to CG3 to enter the office building here a 1/2mile from the Pentagon when I spot the apparition. There are often 2 red KLR's parked in the Pentagon MC parking lot and this one was a spitting image of them. I'm guessing it's one of the guys who parks there. So what's he wearing? Single white T-shirt. Single white gym shorts flapping in the 30mph breeze. No gloves, no jacket, no goggles on his open-face helmet. I didn't notice if he had socks or shoes on but I guess he did. I couldn't believe it. My fingers ached in the 2 or 3 minutes it took to put my gear on this morning. How on earth he wasn't a shivering mass of humanity out of control I know not. He was riding around like he tought it was 90F or something. ===== * A successful marriage isn't finding the right person; it's being the right person. * To forgive is to set the prisoner free and then discover the prisoner was you. * Liberalism always generates the exact opposite of its stated intent. - Jim Quinn (WRRK) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 16 10:52:59 2004 Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 07:52:51 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Ray Subject: Re: Pickup Truck - A Good Way to Transport Your Bike? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX To me, it would come down to if I really wanted a PU or not. Buying a small trailer will be significantly less expensive than a new or used truck. Because it will probably be lower to the ground it will be easier to load, especially with one person. Almost every car out there can be fitted with a light tow hitch, and has the power to pull an 800 lb trailer/bike combo. For $500 you can get a small harbor-freight utility trailer with MC rail kit. Probably would be able to haul 2 bikes if you needed to. But, if you're in the market for a new vehicle, wanted a PU anyway, then get it. It'll do just fine. Of course, I'm biased. I'm putting the finishing touches on a single-rail trailer that a friend & I built from scratch. Comes apart for storage, can stow it in my Grand Cherokee if I need to, and has a nice torsion axle. But then I have access to metal-working tools, and can weld. YMMV Brian '03 Suzuki B12S --- Buster Rockville wrote: > Hello, > > I'm thinking about getting a small pick-em-up truck > (e.g. Tacoma) to haul my 450 lb ZX6, but I have no > experience with this. > > Is this a good way to haul a bike? > > How difficult (in your opinion) is it to get the > bike > up into the bed? Is it possible for a 5'5", 145 lbs > person to get it up there by him/herself? > > My bike is (I think) about 5 feet long. How long > should the bed be to facilitate getting it up there? > > Any advise would be greatly appreciated! > > Thanks in advance! > > Jeff from Rockville. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 16 11:24:22 2004 Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 08:24:18 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: I don't believe I just saw what I did To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Did you notice what his tags were? DC or maybe Crystal City sticker for example? It is usually a few degrees warmer in the city type areas and if he's just going a few blocks, he may have thought it wasn't that big a deal. Of course if you spoke to him after he stopped, he may not have been able to answer ;-) I did some real quick errands yesterday on my nice shiny and clean hawg with just a jeans jacket, gloves, goggles and half-helm (7/11 and then Potomic Video; I just grabbed what was handy after I finished waxing). I probably wasn't out for more than a half-hour but it wasn't that bad. Carl --- matthew patton wrote: > It was 14F when I left my house a little before 8am for the ride up. My > toes are stiff and wooden as I walk across from CGNorth to CG3 to enter > the office building here a 1/2mile from the Pentagon when I spot the > apparition. There are often 2 red KLR's parked in the Pentagon MC > parking lot and this one was a spitting image of them. I'm guessing > it's one of the guys who parks there. > > So what's he wearing? Single white T-shirt. Single white gym shorts > flapping in the 30mph breeze. No gloves, no jacket, no goggles on his > open-face helmet. I didn't notice if he had socks or shoes on but I > guess he did. I couldn't believe it. My fingers ached in the 2 or 3 > minutes it took to put my gear on this morning. How on earth he wasn't > a shivering mass of humanity out of control I know not. He was riding > around like he tought it was 90F or something. > > ===== > * A successful marriage isn't finding the right person; it's being > the right person. > > * To forgive is to set the prisoner free and then discover the > prisoner was you. > > * Liberalism always generates the exact opposite of its stated intent. > - Jim Quinn (WRRK) > ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 16 15:47:30 2004 Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 15:47:37 -0500 To: Brian Ray , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Pickup Truck - A Good Way to Transport Your Bike? At 07:52 AM 2/16/04 -0800, Brian Ray wrote: >Of course, I'm biased. I'm putting the finishing >touches on a single-rail trailer that a friend & I >built from scratch. Comes apart for storage, can stow >it in my Grand Cherokee if I need to, and has a nice >torsion axle. But then I have access to metal-working >tools, and can weld. That sounds interesting...are the plans commercial, or did you design it yourself? What's the max load? I'm starting to learn about metalworking and welding, and a trailer is not out of the question once I'm sure I know what I'm doing with it on less critical projects (welding table, mailbox, etc.). One that breaks down and fits inside a Grand Cherokee would be ideal! I've never seen one that breaks down that far. I've already got the hitch. :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 16 15:47:30 2004 Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 15:40:48 -0500 To: Brian Roach , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Pickup Truck - A Good Way to Transport Your Bike? At 09:39 AM 2/15/04 -0500, Brian Roach wrote: >>Then, when you tie it down, there's no need to put much >>compression into your fork springs - which, if you do and you're then >>travelling for a signficant number of hours, will degrade those springs. >> >> >This is a wives' tale. > >A spring (not just in your bike) will return to its orignial form and >release all its stored energy as long as its elastic limit isn't >exceeded. Well, if you keep it compressed for a very long time, the tension could cause the metal to distort and reduce the spring strength. High temps will do it too. On the other hand, Brian is right for all practical purposes, as the temps needed would cause the rest of the bike to burn to the ground, and "very long time" is most likely measured in years...how long a trip do you have planned? ;^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 16 16:04:40 2004 Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 13:04:32 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Ray Subject: Re: Pickup Truck - A Good Way to Transport Your Bike? To: Mike Bartman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Mike - No, the plan's aren't commercial. They came straight from my buddy's (Gary) and my heads. Becuase I helped it's overdesigned, and because Gary helped it's overbuilt. No telling what the load rating is, but I'd comfortably put any bike on there and not worry. The axle is a 2,000 lb torsion axle. The single rail sits like a lower case "t", with the long end pointing towards the hitch. Outriggers of 1"x2" box tubing run from the ends of the axle to the front of the rail, where they all (MC rail, outriggers) bolt to the hitch and front tire holding portions. In all, it has 6 parts (axle, MC rail, 2 outriggers, hitch, front tire tie-down) and probably weighs 250 lbs. Our theory was, when in doubt, make it heavier and use more welds. The main rail sits nice and low (about 10" above the ground) making loading & unloading easier. So far I have about $500 in parts & metal in it. Time is about 40 hours so far, but that includes the time we spent looking at the parts and thinking how to solve the new problem. It would have been much easier to simply buy a utility trailer & slap a rail on it, but this way I get exactly what I wanted, and the pleasure of having made it. I'll post pictures when I have it painted and completed. A couple of interesting trailer designs are at these sites. http://www.stingertrailer.com/html/specifications.html http://www.trailerinabag.com/main.html Mine looks a lot like the trailer in a bag design, except with a wider axle & outriggers running from the axle to the front. Brian --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 07:52 AM 2/16/04 -0800, Brian Ray wrote: > > >Of course, I'm biased. I'm putting the finishing > >touches on a single-rail trailer that a friend & I > >built from scratch. Comes apart for storage, can > stow > >it in my Grand Cherokee if I need to, and has a > nice > >torsion axle. But then I have access to > metal-working > >tools, and can weld. > > That sounds interesting...are the plans commercial, > or did you design it > yourself? What's the max load? > > I'm starting to learn about metalworking and > welding, and a trailer is not > out of the question once I'm sure I know what I'm > doing with it on less > critical projects (welding table, mailbox, etc.). > One that breaks down and > fits inside a Grand Cherokee would be ideal! I've > never seen one that > breaks down that far. > > I've already got the hitch. :^) > > -- Mike B. > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 16 16:17:07 2004 Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 16:16:52 -0500 From: Brian Roach To: Mike Bartman CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Pickup Truck - A Good Way to Transport Your Bike? Mike Bartman wrote: > > Well, if you keep it compressed for a very long time, the tension could > cause the metal to distort and reduce the spring strength. High temps will > do it too. High temps (as in your bike is melting), yes. Compression, no. Springs are neat things. You can compress or expand a spring all you want, as many times as you want, as long as you don't exceed the elastic limit. It will always return to its exact original form. As I stated before, by design, a motorcycle fork will not allow a fork spring to be compressed beyond its limit. How often do you replace your valve springs? When your car/bike is at rest, at least some of the valve springs are being held in a completely compressed state by the cam lobes. Ever let your bike sit for a week? A month? 3 months over the winter? Did the valve springs need to be replaced? Same deal - they are not compressed beyond their elastic limit. Add to that the fact that those springs are compressed thousands of times per minute for hours on end while the vehicle is running. (Yes, it IS possible for a valve spring to fail, but not because it was compressed too many times or held in a compressed state for too long.) Another example: If you don't stretch a 'slinky' past the elastic limit (you know you've done it...), it will never fail or degrade in performance. - Roach From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 16 20:09:42 2004 Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 19:09:48 -0600 To: mike@XXXXXX, thomasajordan@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Sean Jordan Subject: Want one. Bad. http://www.synergymotorsports.com/press/press.html Look at the frame....a 60 hp. 445cc single doesn't sound bad either. - Sean Jordan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 16 20:29:49 2004 Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 17:29:32 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Pickup Truck - A Good Way to Transport Your Bike? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 09:39 AM 2/15/04 -0500, Brian Roach wrote: >>Then, when you tie it down, there's no need to put much >>compression into your fork springs - which, if you do and you're then >>travelling for a signficant number of hours, will degrade those springs. >> >> >This is a wives' tale. What I had read was not that the springs were a potential problem, but that cinching the front down tight put the fork seals at risk if a large bump should then be transmitted to the bike -- so I guess the risk would depend on the quality of your suspension, if any. Old wives tale there too? -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 16 23:28:13 2004 Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 23:27:56 -0500 From: Brian Roach To: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Pickup Truck - A Good Way to Transport Your Bike? pltrgyst@XXXXXX wrote: > What I had read was not that the springs were a potential problem, but that > cinching the front down tight put the fork seals at risk if a large bump should > then be transmitted to the bike -- so I guess the risk would depend on the > quality of your suspension, if any. > > Old wives tale there too? Fork seals do wear out ... they are a consumable item and need to be replaced from time to time. It's not that strapping the bike down will make a perfectly good seal fail - going back to fork design, you can bottom out forks and the seals don't blow. It's that a worn seal won't be able to hold the sustained added pressure, and you can have an oil bath on your hands. We recommend racers service their forks each year with new oil and seals. At the very least you should do it every other for a street bike. Not only does it ensure the seals are good, it keeps your suspension working properly - fork oil does break down, just like engine oil, which means it gets thinner and flows faster through the fork valving. You should smell the stuff when you open a set of forks that's been on a bike for 15k miles and never had the oil changed. The entire shop reeks for at least an hour. - Roach From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 17 08:25:11 2004 From: "Steve Meredith" To: Subject: RE: Bike Grab Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 08:34:49 -0500 To: Mike Bartman , Wayne Edelen , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Bike Grab (RE: More off-topic) Mike, The Bike Grab can be bolted down to virtually any surface. So yes, it can be used on a trailer. If I remember correctly, the Bike Grab web page shows such a set-up. And the best thing about using the Bike Grab on a trailer is that you don't need to compress the forks when you tie it down. Chuck I have a Bike Grab bolted onto my trailer. Have also used it in the garage without bolting it onto the floor. Works fine either way. When I used it on the trailer, I only strapped down the rear of the bike thinking the front should be pretty stable. The front did a lot of wiggling around during the trip. More than I liked putting a lot of torque on the fork and front wheel. Next trip, I'll strap down the front also, but I won't need to pull down the front end so tight like when I hauled the bike without the Bike Grab. I also considered the Battley product before I purchased. The Bike Grab is substantially less expensive. It's a good, sturdy product. Steven Meredith 1997 VFR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 17 08:50:03 2004 Subject: Re: Pickup Truck - A Good Way to Transport Your Bike? From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 17 Feb 2004 08:46:34 -0500 On Mon, 2004-02-16 at 23:27, Brian Roach wrote: > You should smell the stuff when you open a set of forks > that's been on a bike for 15k miles and never had the oil changed. The > entire shop reeks for at least an hour. 15k? I guess it's time for mine. I have 27k now and am approaching 20 months. > > - Roach > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 17 09:37:03 2004 Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 09:36:49 -0500 From: Brian Roach To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Pickup Truck - A Good Way to Transport Your Bike? Carl Schelin wrote: > 15k? I guess it's time for mine. I have 27k now and am approaching 20 > months. It does depend on use - back-road aggressive riding on a sportbike will break down the oil a whole lot faster than commuting on the highway. But it is a good idea to change it every once in a while If you crack open the fork cap and the smell akin to burnt hair fills your garage ... you were a little late in changing it! - Roach From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 17 09:52:29 2004 Subject: Re: Pickup Truck - A Good Way to Transport Your Bike? From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 17 Feb 2004 09:49:00 -0500 On Tue, 2004-02-17 at 09:34, Brian Roach wrote: > Carl Schelin wrote: > > > 15k? I guess it's time for mine. I have 27k now and am approaching 20 > > months. > > It does depend on use - back-road aggressive riding on a sportbike will > break down the oil a whole lot faster than commuting on the highway. But > it is a good idea to change it every once in a while :) If you crack > open the fork cap and the smell akin to burnt hair fills your garage ... > you were a little late in changing it! > It's possible it's already been done. On the major numbers (10k and 20k for example) or if there's a warranty problem, I take it to the dealer and let them deal with it. I'll check my service manual. > - Roach > > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 17 12:50:22 2004 Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 12:48:51 -0500 To: Brian Roach From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Pickup Truck - A Good Way to Transport Your Bike? Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 04:16 PM 2/16/04 -0500, Brian Roach wrote: >Mike Bartman wrote: >> >> Well, if you keep it compressed for a very long time, the tension could >> cause the metal to distort and reduce the spring strength. High temps will >> do it too. > >High temps (as in your bike is melting), yes. Compression, no. I already mentioned the "burn to the ground" scenario, but the compression thing depends on the spring, and its environment, being properly designed and constructed to avoid permanent set from compression...but even with that caveat it's unlikely that a bike fork spring will take on a set during a road trip on a trailer. If one did, it was *seriously* mis-engineered or defective in manufacture and you wouldn't want it in your bike anyway. >Springs are neat things. You can compress or expand a spring all you >want, as many times as you want, as long as you don't exceed the elastic >limit. Ummmm...no. Springs fatigue (form micro cracks) from repeated flexing, and eventually fail. Properly designed springs won't fail within the life of the product, but nothing lasts forever. The thing you don't want to exceed is more properly called "yield strength" I think, but it's been a while since materials class in engineering school. >It will always return to its exact original form. There is a concept called "creep", or "cold flow", which allows a compressed spring to take on a permanent set over time. This is caused by the tension in the material causing the atoms to slip past each other so as to relieve the tension. A properly engineered spring will not be affected by this over the expected life of the product though...the design will have been done to minimize this, and to allow for it to the extent that it couldn't be avoided. There's a tiny mention of this thing here (though not in metals): http://www.ticona-us.com/TechScvs/DesignSprg.cfm A definition of "creep" is here: http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:si8q0b53dwcJ:www.postech.ac.kr/chem/mre e/study/yield.pdf+permanent+spring+deformation+creep+%22cold+flow%22&hl=en&i e=UTF-8 >Another example: If you don't stretch a 'slinky' past the elastic limit >(you know you've done it...), it will never fail or degrade in performance. Not before your arms wear out anyway. :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 17 14:53:14 2004 Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 14:54:05 -0500 To: Brian Roach From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Pickup Truck - A Good Way to Transport Your Bike? Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 01:13 PM 2/17/04 -0500, Brian Roach wrote: >The point is, under normal conditions and usage (which includes the fork >being compressed to the point of bottoming out, and for long periods of >time), the spring will not fail, unless it is defective, while you own >the bike. You also won't find any (noticeable - a few thousandths aren't >going to matter) creep in the spring during this time. If it was properly designed and manufactured, correct, agreed, no objection. I was just trying to cover the rest for those who know enough to be dangerous (like me :^) and who might be thinking, "wait a minute...what about...". >Nothing lasts *forever*, and all my statements should probably have some >caveat attached limiting the time to some reasonable time of ownership, >say ... 15 years :) A fork spring would prob outlast the motor in any >given bike before it started to fail. Yep! Consider that your springs are always compressed some when installed and the bike is sitting on its tires (ditto for car springs)...typically for many years. This doesn't keep the springs from working, or let them collapse, even after decades like that. When you tie the bike down you compress them a bit more, but as you say, the bike is designed (one hopes...) so that you can't compress them past the "point of no return" (plastic deformation limit, yield limit, etc.). As far as fork seals go, I'd think it would depend how your forks are designed. If the oil is only used as a shock absorber, then the pressure is gone once the forks stop moving, no matter where they are when they stop. It's the resistance that comes from trying to force the oil through small holes that results in the damping effect...no movement means no flow, which means no pressure on anything. The oil gets where it wants to be and that's it. However, I have no idea how things like anti-dive systems (like my old Honda had) work, and I suppose it's more than possible that there could be some gas involved, and that it could end up pressurized when the forks are compressed, and stay that way until they return to the normal "rest" position. In such a case I think I'd check the manual, or call the manufacturer, and ask them about how best to secure the bike for transport. Back when I had a trailer and used it for my Yamaha and Honda I'd pull the front straps (attached to the bars) until the front forks compressed enough that I was sure the front wheel wouldn't jump out of the rail on the trailer if I hit a major pothole. That was usually a bit more than half way down, leaving some travel for bumps, but no so much that the straps would loosen too much as a result. I mostly counted on the rear straps keeping the bike vertical. I never went all that far though...50 miles or so was about it. Usually just to get the bike to the dealer for regular maintenance or repair (like the time some lowlife scum came through the neighborhood and slashed tires on anything that moved...including my Honda. The neighbors and I agreed that if we ever caught them at it again, everyone was going to develop sudden hearing and vision problems...so we'd be unable to help the police explain what had happened to them when the bodies were discovered...). -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 17 15:04:15 2004 Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 15:05:06 -0500 To: Brian Ray , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Pickup Truck - A Good Way to Transport Your Bike? At 01:04 PM 2/16/04 -0800, Brian Ray wrote: >Mike - > >No, the plan's aren't commercial. Maybe you should fix that? :^) Get an engineer to look them over, make sure they meet all DOT requirements, compute weight limits, etc., and then sell them on the net. I might buy a set... :^) >I'd comfortably put any bike on there and not worry. > >The axle is a 2,000 lb torsion axle. The single rail >sits like a lower case "t", with the long end pointing >towards the hitch. Outriggers of 1"x2" box tubing run >from the ends of the axle to the front of the rail, >where they all (MC rail, outriggers) bolt to the hitch >and front tire holding portions. In all, it has 6 >parts (axle, MC rail, 2 outriggers, hitch, front tire >tie-down) and probably weighs 250 lbs. Our theory >was, when in doubt, make it heavier and use more >welds. I like the way you think! :^) Yes, it sounds considerably stronger than the single-rail commercially-built trailer I used to have. For instance, on mine the "outriggers" were 1.5" angle, not 1"x2" box. It was very similar to your design overall too...though it didn't break down at all...it was welded everywhere. >The main rail sits nice and low (about 10" above the >ground) making loading & unloading easier. Mine had a ramp that hooked to the rail with a bit of 1/2" rod and a hole. When loaded, the ramp secured to the side of the rail with some hooks and a cotter pin through another bit of 1/2" rod that went through a hole in the ramp side (ramp was the same C-channel that the rail was). >So far I have about $500 in parts & metal in it. Time >is about 40 hours so far, but that includes the time >we spent looking at the parts and thinking how to >solve the new problem. It would have been much easier >to simply buy a utility trailer & slap a rail on it, >but this way I get exactly what I wanted, and the >pleasure of having made it. Agreed...it's also the way you wanted it. Something like that would be handy to have, since I have noplace I can store a trailer where I'm currently living. Once I move to a place where parking trailers doesn't violate covenants, I'm figuring on getting a utility trailer that I can haul plywood on, as well as attach a ramp and rail to haul my bike when needed. >http://www.stingertrailer.com/html/specifications.html > >http://www.trailerinabag.com/main.html > >Mine looks a lot like the trailer in a bag design, >except with a wider axle & outriggers running from the >axle to the front. Yep, sounds like my old trailer. Worked very well, but was a little tricky to load. I tried riding up onto it once, with the enduro. Worked, but you *can't* stop part way up, so I don't recommend it (no place to put your feet down until you are all the way up...then the outriggers work more or less). Walking the bike up worked, but only because I have really long arms...the outriggers and wheels make it hard to walk the bike up while standing on the ground, and the lack of decking makes it hard to walk up with it. Might be nice to add a "catwalk" next to the rail to let you do that... -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 17 15:17:10 2004 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" Cc: "'pattonme@XXXXXX'" Subject: I don't believe I just saw what I did Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 15:22:29 -0500 Matthew Phantasied: So what's he wearing? Single white T-shirt. Single white gym shorts flapping in the 30mph breeze. No gloves, no jacket, no goggles on his open-face helmet. I didn't notice if he had socks or shoes on but I guess he did. I couldn't believe it. My fingers ached in the 2 or 3 minutes it took to put my gear on this morning. How on earth he wasn't a shivering mass of humanity out of control I know not. He was riding around like he thought it was 90F or something. Shhh, maybe it was one of those super soldiers that the X-Files warned us about. The blazing heat prognosticated for this week end may send him back to his den: Sat Feb 21 Showers 52/37 40 % Sun Feb 22 Partly Cloudy 48/30 10 % Time to burn some more Stabil folks. Carl in Brr-thesda, headed for West (B.. b.. by G.. God) Vir..r.. Ginny From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 17 15:28:57 2004 Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 15:29:52 -0500 To: "Custer, Carl" , "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: I don't believe I just saw what I did Cc: "'pattonme@XXXXXX'" At 03:22 PM 2/17/04 -0500, Custer, Carl wrote: >Sat Feb 21 Showers 52/37 40 % >Sun Feb 22 Partly Cloudy 48/30 10 % >Time to burn some more Stabil folks. Yippeee!!!! >Carl in Brr-thesda, headed for West (B.. b.. by G.. God) Vir..r.. Ginny Is that weather report for *here*, or for *there*??? :^) -- Mike B. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 17 15:33:11 2004 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'Mike Bartman'" , "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" Subject: RE: I don't believe I just saw what I did Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 15:38:29 -0500 To my "Sat Feb 21 Showers 52/37 40 % >Sun Feb 22 Partly Cloudy 48/30 10 % >Time to burn some more Stabil folks. Mike Bellowed, "Yippeee!!!! Is that weather report for *here*, or for *there*??? :^)" "As reported at Frederick, MD Last Updated Tuesday, February 17, 2004, at 2:40 PM Eastern Standard Time." From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 17 15:45:36 2004 Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 15:46:23 -0500 To: "Custer, Carl" , "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: I don't believe I just saw what I did At 03:38 PM 2/17/04 -0500, Custer, Carl wrote: >To my >"Sat Feb 21 Showers 52/37 40 % >>Sun Feb 22 Partly Cloudy 48/30 10 % >>Time to burn some more Stabil folks. > >Mike Bellowed, "Yippeee!!!! >Is that weather report for *here*, or for *there*??? :^)" > >"As reported at Frederick, MD Last Updated Tuesday, February 17, 2004, at >2:40 PM Eastern Standard Time." Even better then! If it's going to be that warm in Frederick, it should be even toastier down here, and perhaps not *too* frigid in WbgV. :^) -- Mike B. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 17 16:34:28 2004 Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 13:34:14 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Ray Subject: Re: Pickup Truck - A Good Way to Transport Your Bike? To: DC Cycles Yeah, I thought about commercial production, for about 5 seconds. There's lots of folks in the trailer making business, and I'd rather spend my time riding. For me, it was a fun exercise. I'd helps someone else. Not much beyond that. It does have a ramp, that is removeable, and attaches via 2 hooks. Works fairly well, and stores elsewhere (in the back of the grand) when not loading or unloading. I thought about making an attachment to tie it to the trailer, but why bother. It works well enough as-is. I did think about a catwalk, or other provision for riding the bike onto it safely. It would, however, complicate the design. For now I'll just push it on. It's easiy with a second person, harder by myself. After I do it a few times I may change my tune. --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 01:04 PM 2/16/04 -0800, Brian Ray wrote: > >Mike - > > > >No, the plan's aren't commercial. > > Maybe you should fix that? :^) Get an engineer to > look them over, make > sure they meet all DOT requirements, compute weight > limits, etc., and then > sell them on the net. I might buy a set... :^) > > >I'd comfortably put any bike on there and not > worry. > > > >The axle is a 2,000 lb torsion axle. The single > rail > >sits like a lower case "t", with the long end > pointing > >towards the hitch. Outriggers of 1"x2" box tubing > run > >from the ends of the axle to the front of the rail, > >where they all (MC rail, outriggers) bolt to the > hitch > >and front tire holding portions. In all, it has 6 > >parts (axle, MC rail, 2 outriggers, hitch, front > tire > >tie-down) and probably weighs 250 lbs. Our theory > >was, when in doubt, make it heavier and use more > >welds. > > I like the way you think! :^) Yes, it sounds > considerably stronger than > the single-rail commercially-built trailer I used to > have. For instance, > on mine the "outriggers" were 1.5" angle, not 1"x2" > box. It was very > similar to your design overall too...though it > didn't break down at > all...it was welded everywhere. > > >The main rail sits nice and low (about 10" above > the > >ground) making loading & unloading easier. > > Mine had a ramp that hooked to the rail with a bit > of 1/2" rod and a hole. > When loaded, the ramp secured to the side of the > rail with some hooks and a > cotter pin through another bit of 1/2" rod that went > through a hole in the > ramp side (ramp was the same C-channel that the rail > was). > > >So far I have about $500 in parts & metal in it. > Time > >is about 40 hours so far, but that includes the > time > >we spent looking at the parts and thinking how to > >solve the new problem. It would have been much > easier > >to simply buy a utility trailer & slap a rail on > it, > >but this way I get exactly what I wanted, and the > >pleasure of having made it. > > Agreed...it's also the way you wanted it. Something > like that would be > handy to have, since I have noplace I can store a > trailer where I'm > currently living. Once I move to a place where > parking trailers doesn't > violate covenants, I'm figuring on getting a utility > trailer that I can > haul plywood on, as well as attach a ramp and rail > to haul my bike when > needed. > > >http://www.stingertrailer.com/html/specifications.html > > > >http://www.trailerinabag.com/main.html > > > >Mine looks a lot like the trailer in a bag design, > >except with a wider axle & outriggers running from > the > >axle to the front. > > Yep, sounds like my old trailer. Worked very well, > but was a little tricky > to load. I tried riding up onto it once, with the > enduro. Worked, but you > *can't* stop part way up, so I don't recommend it > (no place to put your > feet down until you are all the way up...then the > outriggers work more or > less). Walking the bike up worked, but only because > I have really long > arms...the outriggers and wheels make it hard to > walk the bike up while > standing on the ground, and the lack of decking > makes it hard to walk up > with it. Might be nice to add a "catwalk" next to > the rail to let you do > that... > > -- Mike B. > > **************************************************************************** > * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered > Obfuscation Obliterated * > * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled > Opinions Offered * > * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined > Smiles Stimulated * > *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* > * "We do it all! No job too small! No > price too high! * > **************************************************************************** __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 17 17:04:36 2004 Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 17:05:31 -0500 To: Brian Ray , DC Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Pickup Truck - A Good Way to Transport Your Bike? At 01:34 PM 2/17/04 -0800, Brian Ray wrote: >Yeah, I thought about commercial production, for about >5 seconds. There's lots of folks in the trailer >making business, and I'd rather spend my time riding. I was thinking more like selling the plans, not building trailers, but time and money are interchangeable according to that old rule, except you can't get more time... :^) >It does have a ramp, that is removeable, and attaches >via 2 hooks. Works fairly well, and stores elsewhere >(in the back of the grand) when not loading or >unloading. I thought about making an attachment to >tie it to the trailer, but why bother. It works well >enough as-is. The main reason for attaching it to the trailer is to have a place to store it when the trailer isn't in use, and I suppose with your breakdown design, that's not as much of an issue as with a fixed design. It's just one more part to put with the rest when you've taken it apart. >I did think about a catwalk, or other provision for >riding the bike onto it safely. It would, however, >complicate the design. For now I'll just push it on. >It's easiy with a second person, harder by myself. >After I do it a few times I may change my tune. Yeah, the more parts, the more parts to assemble, break down and store. Again, a bigger issue due to the breakdown design than it would be on a fixed trailer like my old one. Maybe you could use some sort of foldup or rollup design for the decking, and just have a couple of brackets to attach it to. It only needs to hold a single person long enough to mount and dismount the bike. Doesn't even have to run the whole length of the track...just enough to have a place to stand while you walk the bike up and down. Just thinking in case you decide you need it. :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 17 19:45:39 2004 Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 19:45:18 -0500 From: Brian Roach To: Mike Bartman CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Pickup Truck - A Good Way to Transport Your Bike? There's air inside the forks which does get compressed (obviously you can't compress a liquid). The newest tech adds a nitrogen charge like in the rear shock. Again ... a perfectly good seal won't fail just by compressing the forks. A worn one may ... but it would also leak/fail simply by hitting a bump hard enough. - Roach Mike Bartman wrote: > As far as fork seals go, I'd think it would depend how your forks are > designed. If the oil is only used as a shock absorber, then the pressure > is gone once the forks stop moving, no matter where they are when they > stop. It's the resistance that comes from trying to force the oil through > small holes that results in the damping effect...no movement means no flow, > which means no pressure on anything. The oil gets where it wants to be and > that's it. > > However, I have no idea how things like anti-dive systems (like my old > Honda had) work, and I suppose it's more than possible that there could be > some gas involved, and that it could end up pressurized when the forks are > compressed, and stay that way until they return to the normal "rest" > position. In such a case I think I'd check the manual, or call the > manufacturer, and ask them about how best to secure the bike for transport. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 19 11:59:47 2004 Subject: Testing From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 19 Feb 2004 11:55:54 -0500 http://www.wiscbmwclub.com/131Ways.html Just seeing if the list is still alive. It's _such_ a nice day ;-) Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 19 12:04:39 2004 Subject: RE: Testing Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 12:04:31 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Carl Schelin" , X-imss-version: 2.0 X-imss-result: Passed X-imss-approveListMatch: *@nextel.com Absolutely gawgeous weather out there! And most of the sand and gravel is gone from the roads, too. Lot's of bikes on the road, people must be jonesing for a two-wheeled fix... Robert PS: Did I mention I tried out Number Three from your list a couple of weeks ago? Twice? No droppage, thankfully, but the seat has quite a crease in in now... -----Original Message----- From: Carl Schelin [mailto:cschelin@XXXXXX] Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 11:56 AM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Testing http://www.wiscbmwclub.com/131Ways.html Just seeing if the list is still alive. It's _such_ a nice day ;-) Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 19 12:13:27 2004 Subject: RE: Testing From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 19 Feb 2004 12:09:59 -0500 On Thu, 2004-02-19 at 12:04, Verde, Robert wrote: > Absolutely gawgeous weather out there! And most of the sand and gravel > is gone from the roads, too. Lot's of bikes on the road, people must be > jonesing for a two-wheeled fix... Oh yea. Love seeing all the riders waking up from their winter hibernation even if it's a bit early ;-) > > Robert > > PS: Did I mention I tried out Number Three from your list a couple of > weeks ago? Twice? No droppage, thankfully, but the seat has quite a > crease in in now... > Actually it's a cross-list post. I got it from the Colorado list. I've done a couple. There are a couple of duplicates and there's one I've done that doesn't seem to be on the list. Much of the list seems similar: "forgot [something about the kickstand/jiffystand] and it fell over". "Not paying attention to [something] and having it fall over". Mine was when the Harley security module failed. I got it into the truck with 5 cow-orkers with no problem. When I got it to the dealer, I was in the bed of the truck releasing straps so we could roll her out and I released it too soon. No apparent damage except to my ego. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 19 12:21:30 2004 Subject: RE: Testing Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 12:21:22 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Carl Schelin" , X-imss-version: 2.0 X-imss-result: Passed X-imss-approveListMatch: *@nextel.com That reminds me... My younger brother rides a 2003 Road King, and works as a field biologist. Last riding update from him, he told me about a mandatory inspector's meeting held at a military base in Souther California. Brother Erich thinks it would be impressive to ride to said meeting, being held in an aircraft hangar. Ruefully relates that the floor of the hangar was amazingly slick; when he went to turn and stop near assembled group, bike goes over on side, slides a goodly ways, and smacks into hangar wall with large booming sound. No apparent damage except to ego... ;-) Brother has lots of that, as is apparent from anecdote. Robert -----Original Message----- From: Carl Schelin [mailto:cschelin@XXXXXX] Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 12:10 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Testing Actually it's a cross-list post. I got it from the Colorado list. I've done a couple. There are a couple of duplicates and there's one I've done that doesn't seem to be on the list. Much of the list seems similar: "forgot [something about the kickstand/jiffystand] and it fell over". "Not paying attention to [something] and having it fall over". Mine was when the Harley security module failed. I got it into the truck with 5 cow-orkers with no problem. When I got it to the dealer, I was in the bed of the truck releasing straps so we could roll her out and I released it too soon. No apparent damage except to my ego. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 19 14:34:11 2004 Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 11:34:02 -0800 (PST) From: Leon Begeman Subject: Re: Testing To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX what a beautiful day to ride. I wish I could. Leon. - still grounded. --- Carl Schelin wrote: > http://www.wiscbmwclub.com/131Ways.html > > Just seeing if the list is still alive. It's _such_ > a nice day ;-) > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 19 14:42:27 2004 Subject: Re: Testing From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 19 Feb 2004 14:38:59 -0500 On Thu, 2004-02-19 at 14:34, Leon Begeman wrote: > what a beautiful day to ride. > Agreed. > I wish I could. > We're with you here and wish you speedy and painless recovery. > Leon. > - still grounded. > I dropped my frame off at Kevin's along with the various parts (oil/gas tank, seat/springs, rear tire, forward controls and coils). He suggested a couple of things including welding a mount plate to the possibly weak points on the down tubes for strength and as a mount for the coils. He's also going to finish the burn-through on the head and install the races. I have risers on order and should be here soon. I just need to chase down someone who can make an axle and we're rolling. :-D Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 20 11:37:09 2004 From: "Shigeru Honda" To: "dc-cycles" Subject: Lane splitting - the verdict Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 11:27:28 -0500 As I mentioned before, I got a reckless driving ticket for lane splitting back in November and just finished with traffic court (my very first court of any kind) today at Arlington. The attorney did a very good job reducing my charge to improper driving with $75 fine and $54 court fee. He said that he used to be a cop and a prosecutor in Arlington and knows people and friend with cops. He did some dealing and talking behind the door. When it was my turn for the hearing, it was done in few seconds and I didn't even have to say a word. I don't know how things would have turned out without the attorney but I'm glad I did and came out easy. No more lane splitting, speeding or any king of violation for me, last few month had been dreadful but I'm glad it's over now. When you get trouble with the traffic law contact this attorney; John A. Boneta 258 N. Washington St. Falls Church, VA 22046 tel: 703-536-6166 fax: 703-536-3296 www.jboneta.com john.boneta@XXXXXX --------------------- Shigeru Honda 98 SuperHawk (Street) 99 750 SS (Track #881) 02 MZ Skorpion Tour (New Toy) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 20 11:50:22 2004 Subject: RE: Lane splitting - the verdict Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 11:50:13 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Shigeru Honda" , "dc-cycles" X-imss-version: 2.0 X-imss-result: Passed X-imss-approveListMatch: *@nextel.com Shigeru; Glad to hear things turned out so well! Just out of curiousity, how many points is a charge of Improper Driving? And how much did the attorney charge for representing you? (I'm just being nosy, please feel free to ignore the question!) For example, when I got a ticket for reckless driving and retained an attorney, it cost me $500.00 plus court fees and the (reduced) fine. Was argued down to Excessive Speed, and I took the online traffic school in advance of the court hearing to show that I was an upstanding citizen. Robert -----Original Message----- From: Shigeru Honda [mailto:shonda3@XXXXXX] Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 11:27 AM To: dc-cycles Subject: Lane splitting - the verdict As I mentioned before, I got a reckless driving ticket for lane splitting back in November and just finished with traffic court (my very first court of any kind) today at Arlington. The attorney did a very good job reducing my charge to improper driving with $75 fine and $54 court fee. He said that he used to be a cop and a prosecutor in Arlington and knows people and friend with cops. He did some dealing and talking behind the door. When it was my turn for the hearing, it was done in few seconds and I didn't even have to say a word. I don't know how things would have turned out without the attorney but I'm glad I did and came out easy. No more lane splitting, speeding or any king of violation for me, last few month had been dreadful but I'm glad it's over now. When you get trouble with the traffic law contact this attorney; John A. Boneta 258 N. Washington St. Falls Church, VA 22046 tel: 703-536-6166 fax: 703-536-3296 www.jboneta.com john.boneta@XXXXXX --------------------- Shigeru Honda 98 SuperHawk (Street) 99 750 SS (Track #881) 02 MZ Skorpion Tour (New Toy) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 20 12:12:51 2004 Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 12:12:40 -0500 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Lane splitting - the verdict To: dc-cycles >As I mentioned before, I got a reckless driving ticket for >lane splitting back in November and just finished with >traffic court (my very first court of any kind) today at >Arlington. >The attorney did a very good job reducing my charge to >improper driving with $75 fine and $54 court fee. He said >that he used to be a cop and a prosecutor in Arlington and >knows people and friend with cops. He did some >dealing and talking behind the door. When it was my turn for >the hearing, it was done in few seconds and I didn't even >have to say a word. [Dave] I hope this was pro bono because if you paid more than $50 for the attorney's services, you could've done the same yourself. You're out a buck thirty + his fee + a traffic conviction... I know it's a reckless charge but still, I've seen and heard of better results, some of which on this list... Of course there have been worse results too... Is Arlington some possible way worse than Fairfax ? Is that even possible? Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 20 12:17:10 2004 Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 09:16:52 -0800 (PST) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: RE: Lane splitting - the verdict To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Improper Driving is a 3 point offense. Glenn --- "Verde, Robert" wrote: Just out of curiousity, how many points is a charge > of Improper Driving? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 20 12:43:11 2004 Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 12:43:09 -0500 To: dc-cycles From: Troutman Subject: Re: Lane splitting - the verdict At 12:12 PM 2/20/2004, Dave Yates wrote: >[Dave] I hope this was pro bono because if you paid more >than $50 for the attorney's services, you could've done the >same yourself. You're out a buck thirty + his fee + a >traffic conviction... I know it's a reckless charge but >still, I've seen and heard of better results, some of which >on this list... Of course there have been worse results >too... He could have seen jail time and lost his license for up to a year. He was smart. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 20 12:51:35 2004 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Lane splitting - the verdict Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 12:51:27 -0500 I was pulled over for running a stop sign, in the cage, in Fairfax Co in ~'01. I asked the judge for traffic school. Teacher was asking where we were from ect. Said it was VERY rare to get assigned traffic school in Fairfax County. >From: Dave Yates >To: dc-cycles >Subject: Re: Lane splitting - the verdict >Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 12:12:40 -0500 > >Is Arlington some possible way worse than Fairfax ? Is that >even possible? _________________________________________________________________ Click, drag and drop. My MSN is the simple way to design your homepage. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200364ave/direct/01/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 20 13:54:42 2004 From: "Sean Steele" To: "dc-cycles" Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 13:53:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Lane splitting - the verdict X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information >> you could've done the same yourself Hmm, unless Shigeru personally knows the local CA and assistant CAs, has had a personal relationship with them, played golf, etc., than no, he definitely could NOT have done the same himself. This, like any traffic violation that's knocked down in the Commonwealth, happens with a backroom handshake and a joke or two. Like it or not, welcome to justice "system" ;-) -Sean From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 20 14:26:08 2004 Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 11:26:00 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Lane splitting - the verdict To: dc-cycles trust me, boneta is NOT cheap. i believe his client is happy, however (the ONLY important factor), so let's not rain on his parade, dave! --- Dave Yates wrote: > > >As I mentioned before, I got a reckless driving ticket > for > >lane splitting back in November and just finished with > >traffic court (my very first court of any kind) today at > > >Arlington. > >The attorney did a very good job reducing my charge to > >improper driving with $75 fine and $54 court fee. He > said > >that he used to be a cop and a prosecutor in Arlington > and > >knows people and friend with cops. He did some > >dealing and talking behind the door. When it was my turn > for > >the hearing, it was done in few seconds and I didn't > even > >have to say a word. > > [Dave] I hope this was pro bono because if you paid more > > than $50 for the attorney's services, you could've done > the > same yourself. You're out a buck thirty + his fee + a > traffic conviction... I know it's a reckless charge but > still, I've seen and heard of better results, some of > which > on this list... Of course there have been worse results > too... > > Is Arlington some possible way worse than Fairfax ? Is > that > even possible? > > > Dave Yates > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 20 15:07:08 2004 Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 12:00:21 -0800 (PST) From: Adam Reinhardt Subject: NSR Questions - Roaches? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX There is a MC18 for sale in my area and I'm interested in taking a look at it this weekend. Is there anything specific I should look for? I'm not that familiar with two-strokes. What would be some tells that the pistons/rings and/or crankshaft are in need of replacement? Anything else in particular that I should be aware of? Thanks in advance, Adam __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 20 15:26:44 2004 Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 15:26:41 -0500 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Lane splitting - the verdict To: dc-cycles Gimer counsels: > >trust me, boneta is NOT cheap. i believe his client is >happy, however (the ONLY important factor), so let's not >rain on his parade, dave! [Dave] ah... probably just parked motorcycle syndrome... didn't mean to rain on your parade there Shigeru... > > >--- Dave Yates wrote: >> >> >As I mentioned before, I got a reckless driving ticket >> for >> >lane splitting back in November and just finished with >> >traffic court (my very first court of any kind) today at >> >> >Arlington. >> >The attorney did a very good job reducing my charge to >> >improper driving with $75 fine and $54 court fee. He >> said >> >that he used to be a cop and a prosecutor in Arlington >> and >> >knows people and friend with cops. He did some >> >dealing and talking behind the door. When it was my turn >> for >> >the hearing, it was done in few seconds and I didn't >> even >> >have to say a word. >> >> [Dave] I hope this was pro bono because if you paid more >> >> than $50 for the attorney's services, you could've done >> the >> same yourself. You're out a buck thirty + his fee + a >> traffic conviction... I know it's a reckless charge but >> still, I've seen and heard of better results, some of >> which >> on this list... Of course there have been worse results >> too... >> >> Is Arlington some possible way worse than Fairfax ? Is >> that >> even possible? >> >> >> Dave Yates >> > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. >http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 20 15:34:56 2004 Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 15:34:31 -0500 From: Laura Roach To: Adam Reinhardt CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: NSR Questions - Roaches? Adam Reinhardt wrote: > There is a MC18 for sale in my area and I'm >interested in taking a look at it this weekend. > > First and most important question...is this for the street? track day? or racing? Laura From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 20 15:55:29 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 15:55:18 EST Subject: Re: NSR Questions - Roaches? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 2/20/2004 3:07:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, ajreinhardt@XXXXXX writes: > What would be some > tells that the pistons/rings and/or crankshaft are in > need of replacement? Compression test. Top _and_ crankcase. Pull off the pipe and look at the piston, you can on a two cycle. MC18 is not ringing any bells for me. More info? New "bumper sticker" on the ST1100. "Eat right, stay fit, DIE ANYWAY!" John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 20 18:53:03 2004 From: "Gary Foreman" To: Subject: SPAM FS: Big Twin Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 18:54:20 -0500 So I finally got some time to take some recent photos of my bike for sale: http://gwfweb.com/cycles/4sale/ Gary Foreman, TL Owners Club From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 20 23:21:54 2004 Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 23:39:28 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa! http://daytonasportbikeriders.com/pics/charlie1.jpg :-) -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Feb 21 01:28:47 2004 Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 01:30:12 -0500 To: Wayne Edelen , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa! At 11:39 PM 2/20/04 -0500, Wayne Edelen wrote: >http://daytonasportbikeriders.com/pics/charlie1.jpg Was that on purpose, or was he in the middle of wiping out? I've seen moves like that on dirt oval track, but not on pavement... -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Feb 21 08:20:56 2004 Reply-To: "Kathleen Loerich" From: "Kathleen Loerich" To: Subject: Fw: ABATE: Helmet Bill Hearing (SB611) Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 08:24:03 -0500 FYI: ----- Original Message ----- From: "ABATE of Maryland, Inc." To: <@erols.com;> Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004 8:18 AM Subject: ABATE: Helmet Bill Hearing (SB611) > The Motorcycle Helmet Bill (SB611) was heard in the Judicial Proceedings > Committee on Thursday, February 19, 2004. This bill would allow adult > motorcycle riders to decide for themselves whether or not to wear a helmet > while riding. The bill includes some provisions that are similar to the > Pennsylvania bill that was enacted in 2003. They include provisions that > the rider must be at least 21 years old and must have either 2 years of > riding experience or must have taken a motorcycle safety course. There are > also provisions for passengers and three-wheeled, enclosed cab vehicles. > > Those who testified in favor of the bill included the primary sponsor > Senator John Hafer; State Director Gary Boward, Assistant State Director > Marty Shultz, Attorney Jay Block, and State Membership Secretary Kathleen > Loerich. The panel addressed personal liberty, financial, studies, helmet > testing, and other issues in their testimony. The single question asked of > the panel was actually to our benefit because it pointed out an egregious > flaw in the bill's accompanying fiscal note that predicted a 205% increase > in motorcycle-related head injuries if the bill passed. > > Those who testified against the bill were representatives from the Advocates > for Highway Safety (AHS) and AAA. These individuals, especially the AHS > representative were grilled by the committee and were asked to explain > additional unbelievable claims made in the fiscal note. > > Every single committee member's vote is crucial to the success of this bill, > but there are three who are key votes that could determine the success of > failure of this bill. These key votes are Senators Brochin, Garagiola, and > Jimeno. > > The upcoming committee vote is crucial to the success of SB611. Call, > write, or FAX the committee members immediately. Urge them to vote for > SB611. Be polite, but firm in expressing your desire that the committee > give SB611 a favorable report. Be sure to thank the committee members who > are sponsors of the bill and especially be sure to let our primary sponsor > Senator John Hafer know that you appreciate his support. > > Senator John Hafer (Primary sponsor for SB 611) > (410) 841-3565, (301) 858-3565 > 1-800-492-7122, ext. 3565 (toll free) > e-mail: john_hafer@XXXXXX > fax: (410) 841-3552, (301) 858-3552 > > Committee members who are co-sponsors of SB 611 are preceeded by an asterisk > (*). Be sure to thank them for their support when contacting them. > > Judicial Proceedings Commitee Members > > Brian E. Frosh, District 16, Montgomery > Chair (410) 841-3124, (301) 858-3124 > e-mail: brian_frosh@XXXXXX > > Leo E. Green, District 23, Prince George's > Vice-Chair (410) 841-3631, (301) 858-3631 > e-mail: leo_green@XXXXXX > > James Brochin, District 42, Baltimore County > (410) 841-3648, (301) 858-3648 > e-mail: jim_brochin@XXXXXX > > Jennie M. Forehand, District 17, Montgomery > (301) 858-3134, (410) 841-3134 > e-mail: jennie_forehand@XXXXXX > > Robert J. Garagiola, District 15, Montgomery > (301) 858-3169, (410) 841-3169 > e-mail: rob_garagiola@XXXXXX > > * John A. Giannetti, Jr., District 21, Anne Arundel & Prince George's > (301) 858-3141, (410) 841-3141 > e-mail: john_giannetti@XXXXXX > > * Larry E. Haines, District 5, Baltimore County, Carroll > (410) 841-3683, (301) 858-3683 > e-mail: larry_haines@XXXXXX > > Ralph M. Hughes, District 40, Baltimore City > (410) 841-3656, (301) 858-3656 > e-mail: ralph_hughes@XXXXXX > > * Nancy Jacobs, District 34, Cecil & Harford > (410) 841-3158, (301) 858-3158 > e-mail: nancy_jacobs@XXXXXX > > Philip C. Jimeno, District 31, Anne Arundel > (410) 841-3658, (301) 858-3658 > e-mail: philip_jimeno@XXXXXX > > * Alex X. Mooney, District 3, Frederick & Washington > (301) 858-3575, (410) 841-3575 > e-mail: alex_mooney@XXXXXX > > * Indicates a sponsor of the SB 611. > > In addition to the numbers listed above, you may call the toll-free number > 1-800-492-7122 and provide the last four digits of the phone number to reach > a Senator. > > Additional bill details can be located at: > http://mlis.state.md.us/2004rs/billfile/sb0611.htm > > ABATE of Maryland, Inc. > http://www.abate-of-maryland.org > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Feb 21 08:22:15 2004 Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 08:22:03 -0500 (EST) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa! On Fri, 20 Feb 2004, Wayne Edelen wrote: > Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 23:39:28 -0500 (EST) > From: Wayne Edelen > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa! > > http://daytonasportbikeriders.com/pics/charlie1.jpg > that looks an awful lot like a back tire which is trying very hard to get in front of the front tire... wow. -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Feb 21 08:23:35 2004 Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 05:23:13 -0800 (PST) From: David Fruehwald Subject: Skyline To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Anyone here work at Skyline? I know about the unofficial motorcycle parking under Skyline Tower on the G2 level. Is there a similar place that would be closer to Skyline 2 which is the building I work in? The parking gates specifically say they will not work with motorcycles so I have not tried using the transponder I have for the cage. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Feb 21 08:33:00 2004 Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 08:50:17 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa! On Sat, 21 Feb 2004, Daniel H. Brown wrote: > > http://daytonasportbikeriders.com/pics/charlie1.jpg > > that looks an awful lot like a back tire which is trying very hard > to get in front of the front tire... wow. The guy who sent it to me said it was a sliding demonstration. Not sure if that means he didn't wipe out or not :-) -- Wayne From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Feb 21 12:37:00 2004 Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 11:36:58 -0600 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Sean Jordan Subject: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa! Mike B. wrote: >Was that on purpose, or was he in the middle of wiping out? I've seen >moves like that on dirt oval track, but not on pavement... You haven't watched very much top level road racing. Look for Gary McCoy in World Superbike this year - the "Sultan of Slide." Rossi, Hayden, and Edwards from the MotoGP ranks have all been known to back it in like this as well (among others!)! -Sean Jordan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Feb 21 12:50:28 2004 Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 09:50:20 -0800 (PST) From: Ryan Santoso Subject: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa! To: Sean Jordan , dc-cycles@XXXXXX That is beyond backing it in. From another forum, it was mentioned that the rider ended up low siding it. Better option than letting the throttle off and high siding. It was in Jennings GP track. Ryan '94 Ducati 900 ss '99 Ducati ST4 '90 Honda Hawk GT --- Sean Jordan wrote: > Mike B. wrote: > > >Was that on purpose, or was he in the middle of > wiping out? I've seen > >moves like that on dirt oval track, but not on > pavement... > > You haven't watched very much top level road racing. > Look for Gary McCoy in > World Superbike this year - the "Sultan of Slide." > Rossi, Hayden, and > Edwards from the MotoGP ranks have all been known to > back it in like this > as well (among others!)! > > -Sean Jordan > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Feb 21 13:52:36 2004 Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 13:52:22 -0500 From: Laura Roach To: Ryan Santoso CC: Sean Jordan , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa! Ryan Santoso wrote: >That is beyond backing it in. From another forum, it >was mentioned that the rider ended up low siding it. >Better option than letting the throttle off and high >siding. It was in Jennings GP track. > > > Actually, he picked the better option. High siding is NEVER a better option than low siding...and if you don't believe me, try both and let me know which you like better. :) Laura From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Feb 21 13:58:57 2004 Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 13:58:41 -0500 From: Laura Roach To: Carl Schelin , "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa! >I actually interpreted his message "better option than ... high siding". >Was I mistaken? > >(Why aren't you riding ;-) > > > Damn...read his post a little too fast huh. ;) Yea, wish we were out riding, but we're still unpacking boxes and trying to get the new house settled. :( Although Roach did take my NSR for a little spin around the block the other day. LAR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Feb 21 14:05:02 2004 Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 11:04:59 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa! To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Laura Roach wrote: > > >I actually interpreted his message "better option than ... high > siding". > >Was I mistaken? > > > >(Why aren't you riding ;-) > > > > > > > Damn...read his post a little too fast huh. ;) That's why I replied privately ;-] > Yea, wish we were out > riding, but we're still unpacking boxes and trying to get the new house > settled. Ahh, understood. We're getting things packed up. Packing up the things we don't use much|at all is difficult. I had to go get about half of my computer books from storage and our ski clothes. It won't be long though. > :( Although Roach did take my NSR for a little spin around the > > block the other day. > I cleaned the hawg last weekend. Yesterday at 7/11 someone asked if I had just bought the bike. Nope, just cleaned it ;-) Nice little ride this morning just out and around getting gas and the morning paper. It's still a bit chilly for Rita though. > LAR > Have fun. Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Feb 21 17:48:12 2004 Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 16:48:16 -0600 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Sean Jordan Subject: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa! Ryan wrote: >That is beyond backing it in. However, it can be done without resulting in a crash. http://www.supermototeam.com/pics/hayden01.jpg Of course, my example is Nicky Hayden...a marked cut above the average track-day rider. -Sean Jordan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 22 12:38:09 2004 Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 12:38:41 -0500 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) At 11:04 AM 2/21/04 -0800, Carl Schelin wrote: >I cleaned the hawg last weekend. Yesterday at 7/11 someone asked if I had >just bought the bike. Nope, just cleaned it ;-) I had to do that last week after riding during the snow melt and getting covered in salt... >Nice little ride this morning just out and around getting gas and the >morning paper. It's still a bit chilly for Rita though. It wasn't as warm yesterday as it was supposed to be, but it was warm enough not to need the leather pants or long johns. Even used the summer gloves and was fine that way. Only went about 30 miles...warm up, gas up, do a little shopping and come home...but it was mostly nice. If you ignored the strong gust winds...not much of a problem except at stop lights. A heavy bike has its advantages. :^) I did have my first encounter with people changing lanes into me though. First was a car, and she was just barely ahead of me, so I was only slightly annoyed, but the second was a pickup truck, and I was passing on the left (middle lane for me, right for it) almost even with the front door when it started over. I hit the brakes and the horn (in that order), but it didn't swerve back or anything...just came on over like I wasn't there. No apologetic wave or anything either. That pissed me off. I followed it home. The rear window was smoked, so all I could tell was that there were two people in it. Passenger looked like an old man, but it was hard to see much. When it pulled into a parking space at an apartment building a couple of miles and 4 turns later, I pulled in next to it and waited. The driver turned out to be a woman in her late 20s (apparently, I didn't ask for ID), who studiously ignored me as she shut down, and got out. Her passenger turned out to be another female, but I didn't pay much attention to her. When the driver was forced to acknowledge that there was a pissed off rider on a running bike in front of her, I asked if she was blind or just a lousy driver. She said she was sorry...and her voice had that adrenaline-quiver in it that said she was *very* nervous, so I decided to let it slide pretty much. Whatever point I was trying to make had apparently been made well enough. She followed up with the common "I didn't see you" line, and I just said, "You might try looking next time...I'm not exactly invisible". She headed for her apartment, and I left to continue my ride. My last comment was really intended as advice too. She *didn't* look. She did what most poorly-trained drivers do these days: she glanced in her side-view mirror, and then came on over. Her mirrors weren't adjusted properly either (that was obvious from what was visible in them from behind...her side window). I expect that's what's responsible for most lane-change accidents around here...even more than cell phones, smoking and conversations. People don't know how to adjust their mirrors properly, they don't keep track of what's going on around them, and they don't *look* before they move...they rely on their badly-adjusted mirrors only. I've been driving around here for a long time, so I was pissed, but I wasn't surprised. Maybe she'll actually take the time to turn her head and glance next time. One can only hope. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 22 12:38:09 2004 Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 12:18:34 -0500 To: Sean Jordan , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa! At 11:36 AM 2/21/04 -0600, Sean Jordan wrote: >Mike B. wrote: > >>Was that on purpose, or was he in the middle of wiping out? I've seen >>moves like that on dirt oval track, but not on pavement... > >You haven't watched very much top level road racing. No, I haven't. Not much into racing of any sort...though drag racing is fun to watch sometimes, as is air racing (I just like the planes :^). Dirt oval track is *mostly* slides like that. Not so much two wheels as two wheels and a foot... There's a fair bit of it in ice racing sometimes too. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 22 14:07:30 2004 From: "Michael Jordan" To: Subject: RE: Yesterday's riding Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 14:06:56 -0500 > My last comment was really intended as advice too. She > *didn't* look. She did what most poorly-trained drivers do > these days: she glanced in her side-view mirror, and then > came on over. Glad to hear that you survived the encounter. I know that this is an old issue, but I was out yesterday also and had no problems with people not seeing me. Kisan modulators were working their little hearts out on both headlights. Maybe the unwashed masses were annoyed, maybe they thought that I was a cop on a funny yellow motorcycle. I don't really care - they SAW me, and respected my roadspace. It is impossible for me to sufficiently annoy the cagers out there enough to compensate for the annoyance of being run off the road by one of them because I didn't pierce their sphere of oblivion. Yeah - if I'm stopped in traffic waiting for a light to change, I'll douse the modulator if it's visible to the guy in front. But as soon as I get moving, they're back on. I also have a set of Hyperlites flanking the brake light in an attempt to get the people coming up on me at a stop to realize that there's something stopped ahead. Do I trust these devices to keep me from harm? Nope - gotta stay awake. But they do help. Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 22 15:32:23 2004 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 15:32:14 -0500 Good job. >From: Mike Bartman >To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) >Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 12:38:41 -0500 >That pissed me off. I followed it home. _________________________________________________________________ Say )Bgood-bye to spam, viruses and pop-ups with MSN Premium -- free trial offer! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200359ave/direct/01/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 22 16:08:59 2004 Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 13:02:10 -0800 (PST) From: matthew patton Subject: RE: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > good job. except that said certain nervous young lady could easily have called 911, said she was being stalked/harassed and our boy would be in custody. Not saying that such an outcome is fair, but can be rather likely. MC'ists unfortunately get it coming or going. We either get run over, hit, injured or worse, and we run the risk of getting jacked up by the police if we try to nicely swing the clue-bat. Come on scientists we need a portable force-field device and a 150db megaphone that works just by thought. I increasingly like that whole 18-wheeler air-horn idea. Not that I find myself in situations with any kind of regularity... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 22 17:38:19 2004 Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 17:24:39 -0500 To: "Michael Jordan" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: Yesterday's riding At 02:06 PM 2/22/04 -0500, Michael Jordan wrote: >> My last comment was really intended as advice too. She >> *didn't* look. She did what most poorly-trained drivers do >> these days: she glanced in her side-view mirror, and then >> came on over. > >Glad to hear that you survived the encounter. Thank you. She didn't come over *fast*, which made it a lot easier to get out of the way. Also, I was watching those around me, and was aware that I'd just moved through her "blind spot" as I was passing her, so I caught that little movement that most drivers do just before they change lanes, and was already reaching for the brake as she came over the lane divider, and was behind her before I ran out of lane to be in. >I know that this is an old issue, but I was out yesterday also and had no >problems with people not seeing me. Kisan modulators were working their >little hearts out on both headlights. Maybe the unwashed masses were >annoyed, maybe they thought that I was a cop on a funny yellow motorcycle. I >don't really care - they SAW me, and respected my roadspace. I had the headlight and passing lamps lit. Not quite as good as a modulator for attracting attention, but I know what they look like in rear view mirrors and they are *quite* visible. On group rides we have the trailing road captain light them up so the lead captain can tell where the end of the group is...I can easily see them in my RVMs even when they are 20 bikes back or more. The problem here is that she had her side mirrors adjusted to point backward, so she had a blind spot about 45 degrees behind her driver's door, and she didn't turn her head to check it before changing lanes. She wasn't blind, just a lousy driver, very likely poorly trained. >I also have a set of Hyperlites flanking the brake light in an attempt to >get the people coming up on me at a stop to realize that there's something >stopped ahead. Modulators and some brake flashers are on the list of future upgrades, but in the mean time I use the passing lamps any time I'm not in the middle of a group ride, and I use the front brake lever to flash the brake lights a couple of times when I'm stopped and someone is coming up behind me. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 22 17:38:22 2004 Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 17:38:59 -0500 To: matthew patton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) At 01:02 PM 2/22/04 -0800, matthew patton wrote: >> good job. > >except that said certain nervous young lady could easily have called >911, said she was being stalked/harassed and our boy would be in >custody. No, I'd have explained to the officer *why* I was trying to speak with her, and that I might like to consider "vehicular assault" charges. The officer would be likely to suggest to all and sundry that they just drop it. Following someone under circumstances like that does not constitute "stalking" by the way. Stalking involves repeated incidents of various sorts over time, not one lone occurrence on public roads of trying to say something to someone. >I increasingly like that whole 18-wheeler >air-horn idea. Not that I find myself in situations with any kind of regularity... One of the guys in the local HOG group has one of those on his bike...or, rather, the motorcycle equivalent. Mounts where the normal horn goes (left side ahead of the coil), but what's in the "bell" that housed the original horn is the air pump. The new horn is mounted ahead of that, aimed forward. It's LOUD. The horn on my bike is pretty loud...and sounds as authoritative as any car. Certainly better than the cartoon "beep beep" you get with some bikes and small imports. A good solid "HONK!!" -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 22 17:39:28 2004 Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 17:39:37 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) At 12:38 PM 2/22/2004, Mike Bartman wrote: >When it pulled into a parking space at an apartment building a >couple of miles and 4 turns later, I pulled in next to it and waited. The >driver turned out to be a woman in her late 20s (apparently, I didn't ask >for ID), who studiously ignored me as she shut down, and got out. Pissed or not, that was a dumb thing to do. You know all those ads about aggressive driving? Well following her to her home is about as aggressive as it gets. What are you going to do, fight the driver when it gets ugly? Sheesh. I had a guy follow me home once and it took my .32 to convince him to head on down the road. You never know what is going to happen. Just take a deep breath next time, flip her the bird, and roll on down the road. _____________________________________ Mike Troutman mike@XXXXXX http://www.troutman.org/vfr '97 Honda VFR 750 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 22 19:14:56 2004 Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 19:15:38 -0500 To: Troutman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) At 05:39 PM 2/22/04 -0500, Troutman wrote: >At 12:38 PM 2/22/2004, Mike Bartman wrote: >>When it pulled into a parking space at an apartment building a >>couple of miles and 4 turns later, I pulled in next to it and waited. The >>driver turned out to be a woman in her late 20s (apparently, I didn't ask >>for ID), who studiously ignored me as she shut down, and got out. > >Pissed or not, that was a dumb thing to do. You know all those ads about >aggressive driving? Well following her to her home is about as aggressive >as it gets. How is following someone until you can talk to them "aggressive"? I wasn't endangering her, threatening her, or otherwise being "aggressive". I was just following, and only then until I could speak with her. Had that happened at a traffic light, I wouldn't have had to follow her to her destination, but the opportunity didn't come up sooner. >What are you going to do, fight the driver when it gets >ugly? Sheesh. If she'd attacked me physically, yes, same as if I was attacked in any other circumstance. I did nothing to start such a thing though. I didn't even get off my bike, or remove my hands from the controls (it was still in gear). I just pulled into the next parking spot, waited until she got out, and spoke with her for a minute, then left. I let her know that her carelessness in endangering my life wasn't appreciated, she apologized, I suggested how to avoid such things in future, and that was it. While I'm sure it will be a memorable experience for her, as it was for me, I don't see any cause for violence in there anywhere on anyone's part. >I had a guy follow me home once and it took my .32 to convince him to head >on down the road. What had you done to provoke him? If she'd pointed a gun at me under those circumstances, *I'D* probably have called the police. There was no justification for use of deadly force. Now, had I chased her down, forced her off the road, jumped off the bike and started beating on her door trying to get to her, that would be *very* different! >You never know what is going to happen. That's true about a lot of things in life, including getting on the bike in the first place. If it wasn't, I'm sure everyone's insurance rates would be a lot lower. :^) >Just take a >deep breath next time, flip her the bird, and roll on down the road. Probably good advice, but I figure that at least one Maryland driver is likely to actually look before changing lanes in future. For a while anyway. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 22 19:43:13 2004 Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 16:42:31 -0800 (PST) From: matthew patton Subject: Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > How is following someone until you can talk to them From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 22 19:46:07 2004 From: "LindaT." To: "Dc-Cycles" Subject: RE: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 19:45:57 -0500 Perhaps you fail to consider that you are a big guy and a biker and she is a woman. I might feel threatened by a biker following and accosting me. LindaT. http://www.customtankbags.com Now - TankBags for 1800 Wings Springfield, VA (suburb of our nation's capital) AMA IBA HSTA BMWBMW 99 R1100RT Mr. Buzzy 95 F3 Purple Haze 00 KLR250 Super Sherpa Tenzing Mike Bartman said: How is following someone until you can talk to them "aggressive"? I wasn't endangering her, threatening her, or otherwise being "aggressive". I was just following, and only then until I could speak with her. Had that happened at a traffic light, I wouldn't have had to follow her to her destination, but the opportunity didn't come up sooner. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 22 20:37:19 2004 Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 20:37:22 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) Just be aware that your behavior is considered threatening and could easily result in major consequences. If she was visibly nervous then your following her home obviously upset her greatly. Had it been my wife, I would have come out charging when she called me on the cell phone and arrived home. Of course I am a rider, so I would have privately yelled at her for running you off the road ;-) She probably won't change lanes into a bike again without looking, but she is probably now afraid of bikers and will never let her future kids ride because of her "bad experience one time". Or maybe she dismissed it all together. Who knows. If I had been the driver, I would focus more on your behavior following me home than the actions that took place prior. I am almost exclusively on two lane roads in my commuting, which means I don't have many traffic problems other than tailgaters anymore (brake light flashes tend to cure that). But when I commute into DC, I do my best to be seen and realize that when someone does pull over into me it most likely wasn't malicious. Always have an exit, and be prepared for cagers to do the unexpected. Careless driving is only getting worse with SUV DVD players and God knows what else they'll come up with. At 07:15 PM 2/22/2004, you wrote: > >Just take a > >deep breath next time, flip her the bird, and roll on down the road. > >Probably good advice, but I figure that at least one Maryland driver is >likely to actually look before changing lanes in future. For a while anyway. _____________________________________ Mike Troutman mike@XXXXXX http://www.troutman.org/vfr '97 Honda VFR 750 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 22 20:45:27 2004 Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 21:02:51 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) On Sun, 22 Feb 2004, Troutman wrote: > At 12:38 PM 2/22/2004, Mike Bartman wrote: > >When it pulled into a parking space at an apartment building a > >couple of miles and 4 turns later, I pulled in next to it and waited. The > >driver turned out to be a woman in her late 20s (apparently, I didn't ask > >for ID), who studiously ignored me as she shut down, and got out. > > Pissed or not, that was a dumb thing to do. You know all those ads about > aggressive driving? Well following her to her home is about as aggressive > as it gets. What are you going to do, fight the driver when it gets > ugly? Sheesh. > > I had a guy follow me home once and it took my .32 to convince him to head > on down the road. You never know what is going to happen. Just take a > deep breath next time, flip her the bird, and roll on down the road. Exactly as I was thinking, Mike. If someone followed my daughter/wife home, they'd be facing a ride in an ambulance. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 22 20:51:24 2004 Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 21:08:47 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) On Sun, 22 Feb 2004, Mike Bartman wrote: > >Just take a > >deep breath next time, flip her the bird, and roll on down the road. > > Probably good advice, but I figure that at least one Maryland driver is > likely to actually look before changing lanes in future. For a while anyway. You don't really believe that, do you? -- Wayne From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 22 20:52:12 2004 Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 20:52:21 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) Oh - I should tell you that I used to ignore my own advice (hypocrite!). I have gotten off of the bike to yell at two drivers at stoplights in the Reston area and stayed on the bike for a third. So believe me when I say that I can completely understand where you are coming from. No consequences (one apology, one cussing match, one totally ignoring me), but a deputy friend mentioned that it was considered assault (touching them would be battery) as well as some form of menacing. He recommended that if I wanted an altercation, get them to follow me, then it would just be self defense :-/ I don't know how much of his advice was tongue in cheek, but you get the idea. I have been a cooler headed rider for the last couple of years. The archives may prove me a liar though. Ride safe. At 07:15 PM 2/22/2004, you wrote: > >Just take a > >deep breath next time, flip her the bird, and roll on down the road. > >Probably good advice, but I figure that at least one Maryland driver is >likely to actually look before changing lanes in future. For a while anyway. _____________________________________ Mike Troutman mike@XXXXXX http://www.troutman.org/vfr '97 Honda VFR 750 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 22 21:00:10 2004 From: "Dave Yates" To: "DCCycles" Subject: Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 21:00:01 -0500 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79b04c01b583bc7456007fa9b1d47d1794350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c > > At 12:38 PM 2/22/2004, Mike Bartman wrote: > > >When it pulled into a parking space at an apartment building a > > >couple of miles and 4 turns later, I pulled in next to it and waited. ... > > I had a guy follow me home once and it took my .32 to convince him to head > > on down the road. You never know what is going to happen. Just take a > > deep breath next time, flip her the bird, and roll on down the road. > > Exactly as I was thinking, Mike. If someone followed my daughter/wife > home, they'd be facing a ride in an ambulance. [Dave] Just a thought... How about teaching the Significant Others not to go home when being followed, but get on the cell to 911, don't hang up and await the cavalry whilst heading to the closest congregation of Johnny & Joanie Law ? Much as I hate to advise yakking and driving, if you're being followed, grab the yak box and let the police know, head to the closest station. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 22 21:02:57 2004 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Wayne Edelen , Subject: Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 21:04:59 -0500 Those rides are expensive too :) Rob On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 21:02:51 -0500 (EST), Wayne Edelen wrote > Exactly as I was thinking, Mike. If someone followed my > daughter/wife home, they'd be facing a ride in an ambulance. > > -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 22 21:17:56 2004 Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 21:35:19 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: DCCycles Subject: Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) On Sun, 22 Feb 2004, Dave Yates wrote: > [Dave] Just a thought... How about teaching the Significant Others not to > go home when being > followed, but get on the cell to 911, don't hang up and await the cavalry > whilst heading to the > closest congregation of Johnny & Joanie Law ? Much as I hate to advise > yakking and driving, > if you're being followed, grab the yak box and let the police know, head to > the closest station. My wife has not been put in that situation, but she would call me if anything like that happened. My comment was more a general admonishment of Bartman's actions. As Troutman pointed out, he's likely to cause himself more problems by following people around trying to explain their driving mistakes. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 22 21:37:00 2004 Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 21:04:51 -0500 To: "LindaT." , "Dc-Cycles" From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) At 07:45 PM 2/22/04 -0500, LindaT. wrote: >Perhaps you fail to consider that you are a big guy and a biker and she is a >woman. And so our rights change? What happened to "everyone is equal in the eyes of the law"? >I might feel threatened by a biker following and accosting me. Perhaps, but the question is, is that reasonable? If you, like she, had almost run the guy down through carelessness, you might even feel it was reasonable to feel threatened because if you were in a similar situation, you'd be pretty mad. Lacking that provocation and prior interaction, there wouldn't be any reason to feel threatened, would there? Likewise, if you had, I'd figure the guy had a right to tell you what he thought about it, at least so long as you were still out in public. Listening would be up to you of course. There is no "right not to be called on your perceived public stupidity" in this country. If there was, would this thread be continuing? :^) -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 22 21:44:18 2004 Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 21:42:19 -0500 To: Troutman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) At 08:37 PM 2/22/04 -0500, Troutman wrote: >Just be aware that your behavior is considered threatening and could easily >result in major consequences. Why is it "considered threatening", and by whom? Since when is speaking to someone (another adult), in public, "threatening"? >If she was visibly nervous then your >following her home obviously upset her greatly. Good. Her almost running me over upset me too. >Had it been my wife, I >would have come out charging when she called me on the cell phone and >arrived home. And if you assaulted me, the police would have *definitely* become involved, and one or both of us would likely have ended up needing medical treatment. Seems like your behavior would have been considerably less lawful than mine in such a case. >Of course I am a rider, so I would have privately yelled at >her for running you off the road ;-) Ok, if your wife ever does that to me, I'll let you handle it. :^) >She probably won't change lanes into a bike again without looking, but she >is probably now afraid of bikers and will never let her future kids ride >because of her "bad experience one time". Because someone called her on her dangerous behavior rather than letting her get away with it without comment? If so, I hope she never breeds in the first place, and it's just as well that any potential kids of hers never ride. >If I had been the driver, I would focus more on your >behavior following me home than the actions that took place prior. No problem. Focus away. "Gee, why did this guy take the time to follow me? He must have been really pissed. I must have done something pretty wrong there, almost hitting him with my truck. Maybe I should try to avoid pissing off people like that in future? The next one might be a lot less verbal about his responses..." >seen and realize that when someone does pull over into me it most likely >wasn't malicious. I'm nearly certain she didn't do it on purpose. She did it out of carelessness and ignorance. Carelessness kills. Every day. It should not be tolerated on the roads. If it requires a few extra minutes to point it out very clearly, it's worth the trouble. It may just save someone else's life some day, or even mine. She acknowledged that she screwed up when she apologized for it (she meant it...tone of voice is very telling). Maybe she'll remember she needs to look when changing lanes now. That's what I'm hoping anyway. I've called other drivers on their idiot actions more than once in the past, though I usually haven't had to follow them out of my way to do it. Idiots in parking lots, idiots failing to yield to traffic in a traffic circle, idiots passing me to make a left through on-coming traffic while I'm in the left turn lane waiting for a break (*I* wasn't willing to force the oncoming traffic to test their brakes like that, seeing as how they had a green light...), there are idiots all over the place. When I can I let them know they are idiots, and why I think that. Most times there's no opportunity for one reason or another, and we haven't adopted Ghallagher's plan of issuing dart guns, with darts labeled "stupid", for labeling the idiots, so most get away clean. >Always have an exit, and be prepared for cagers to do >the unexpected. Careless driving is only getting worse with SUV DVD >players and God knows what else they'll come up with. This woman was in a pickup truck, not an SUV. No idea what sort of entertainment system it had though. The other one who cut in front of me with a couple of feet to spare (a mile previously) was in a small car. Idiots and careless people drive all sorts of things. I've been driving around here since 1980. I'm well aware of how bad the drivers can be around here, and that it's getting steadily worse as the idiots from 1980 have now trained their offspring to drive even worse, and a general attitude of "the traffic laws are just there to annoy me, and if there's no cop in sight, it's ok to ignore all of them" has caught on. They generally aren't even smart enough to see the reasons the laws were enacted in the first place, and if they think about it at all, they usually figure it's just for "revenue generation"...I've heard that attitude on this list more than once. I think the general level of driving ability and intelligence can be determined by counting how many times on a short drive you see some complete and utter moron cross over the double yellow while coming toward you. There aren't many moves that are more dangerous than driving on the wrong side of the road in the presence of oncoming traffic. If someone does it's either because they are incompetent to operate their vehicle, or because they are just too freaking stupid to understand how dangerous it is (in which case they probably shouldn't be allowed out without supervision). When I first learned to drive it only happened with drunks...no self-respecting person would drive that poorly. It was a very rare event. Even when I moved to the D.C. area it was still fairly rare...you'd see it once every few weeks maybe. Today I can't go to the grocery store without seeing it happen at least once, and more likely several times. It's less than 3 miles to the grocery store. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 22 21:44:18 2004 Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 21:44:41 -0500 To: Wayne Edelen , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) At 09:08 PM 2/22/04 -0500, Wayne Edelen wrote: >On Sun, 22 Feb 2004, Mike Bartman wrote: >> Probably good advice, but I figure that at least one Maryland driver is >> likely to actually look before changing lanes in future. For a while anyway. > >You don't really believe that, do you? Yeah, I do. I guess I'm crediting her with more than you are. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 22 21:44:18 2004 Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 21:43:42 -0500 To: Wayne Edelen , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) At 09:02 PM 2/22/04 -0500, Wayne Edelen wrote: >Exactly as I was thinking, Mike. If someone followed my daughter/wife >home, they'd be facing a ride in an ambulance. You people are lawlessly dangerous, and shouldn't be allowed to own weapons. Maybe we need some more bans? :-\ -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 22 21:49:52 2004 Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 22:06:56 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) On Sun, 22 Feb 2004, Mike Bartman wrote: > At 09:02 PM 2/22/04 -0500, Wayne Edelen wrote: > > >Exactly as I was thinking, Mike. If someone followed my daughter/wife > >home, they'd be facing a ride in an ambulance. > > You people are lawlessly dangerous, and shouldn't be allowed to own > weapons. Maybe we need some more bans? :-\ You're giving yourself too much credit Mike. Nobody is above a good, old-fashioned ass-whooping. :-) -- Wayne From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 22 21:58:58 2004 From: "Dave Yates" To: "Wayne Edelen" , Subject: Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 21:58:51 -0500 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec796151900d0a4c6330282fa49c1627e610350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c > > >Exactly as I was thinking, Mike. If someone followed my daughter/wife > > >home, they'd be facing a ride in an ambulance. > > > > You people are lawlessly dangerous, and shouldn't be allowed to own > > weapons. Maybe we need some more bans? :-\ > > You're giving yourself too much credit Mike. Nobody is above a good, > old-fashioned ass-whooping. [Dave] Mike's on to something - how about a ban further chest pounding ? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 22 22:00:26 2004 Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 22:17:48 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Crossing the line (was Re: Yesterday's riding) On Sun, 22 Feb 2004, Mike Bartman wrote: > I think the general level of driving ability and intelligence can be > determined by counting how many times on a short drive you see some > complete and utter moron cross over the double yellow while coming toward > you. There aren't many moves that are more dangerous than driving on the > wrong side of the road in the presence of oncoming traffic. If someone > does it's either because they are incompetent to operate their vehicle, or > because they are just too freaking stupid to understand how dangerous it is > (in which case they probably shouldn't be allowed out without supervision). I had a funny one on the way to the gym a few days ago. My truck is 3+ tons, BRIGHT WHITE with DRLs, ~18ft long and 6'4" tall. I was driving in the parking lot and some girl was in a compact import coming towards me. She slowly starts drifting towards my truck (we're going about 15mph). When she gets close enough, I notice she's lighting a cigarette. She's got her hands cupped around the tip and she's staring at it like she's trying to will it to light. By the time she gets it lit, she's completely in my lane and finally looks up as I give her a little toot on the horn and she swerves violently into her own lane. Absolutely clueless :-) -- Wayne From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 22 22:36:27 2004 Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 19:36:00 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Wayne Edelen wrote: > .... If someone followed my daughter/wife > home, they'd be facing a ride in an ambulance. ...unless it was someone less rational and well-intentioned than Mike, and possibly much better armed, in which case you might be facing a ride in a meat wagon. Macho can have its price. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 22 22:45:01 2004 Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 23:02:24 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) On Sun, 22 Feb 2004, pltrgyst@XXXXXX wrote: > > .... If someone followed my daughter/wife > > home, they'd be facing a ride in an ambulance. > > ...unless it was someone less rational and well-intentioned than Mike, and > possibly much better armed, in which case you might be facing a ride in a meat > wagon. > > Macho can have its price. Right, much like bikers intimidating women in parking lots. -- Wayne From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 22 22:46:46 2004 Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 19:46:13 -0800 (PST) From: matthew patton Subject: RE: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 07:45 PM 2/22/04 -0500, LindaT. wrote: > >Perhaps you fail to consider that you are a big guy and a biker and > she is a > >woman. > > And so our rights change? What happened to "everyone is equal in the > eyes of the law"? oh my, that had me in stiches. You don't get it do you. Women are more equal than men, and triply so when it suits their agenda. Inequality is rampant in our judicial system as regards a woman and a man. Try looking at family law some time. > you'd be pretty mad. Lacking that provocation and prior interaction, > there > wouldn't be any reason to feel threatened, would there? Mike, women (sorry ladies no offense intended) do not think on the same rational plain and especially so under stress - why do you think the world's militaries are run by men? You are thinking like a man, analysing, compartementalizing, figuring cause and effect. She is feeling. The difference is so profound and so alien to you and us males that it's takes some metal gymnastics to come close to comprehending. You mere presense is threatening. She is not thinking about cause and effect. She is not analysing why is this guy following me, and whether or not I deserve to be accosted, or did I do something to upset him. Even if in a clinical environment she were able to connect the dots, she is in "i feel threatened" mode. Rational thought went out the window a LONG time ago. If it were a guy in the truck the two of you might exchange some choice words or even blows but frankly neither of you'd feel too bad about it. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 22 23:02:51 2004 From: "LindaT." To: "Dc-Cycles" Subject: RE: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 23:02:25 -0500 That is such a sexist load of crap. Yes, family law may favor mothers over fathers, but most other law and custom favor the established male hierarchy. That's what we've been working on for years. Glass ceiling and such. Crimes of passion where a man can kill his wife if she 'dishonors' him in some fashion. Or maybe just beat the crap outa her. 'She was asking for it' or 'she made me do it' It's gotten better, but it sure as hell isn't gone. As to how we think, consider this: if you weighed 120# and someone who was a foot taller and out weighed you by 100# accosted you for whatever reason, why wouldn't you feel threatened? Regardless of the gender of the participants. And the world's militaries are run by men because everything is run by men. BTW, offense taken. LindaT. http://www.customtankbags.com Now - TankBags for 1800 Wings Springfield, VA (suburb of our nation's capital) AMA IBA HSTA BMWBMW 99 R1100RT Mr. Buzzy 95 F3 Purple Haze 00 KLR250 Super Sherpa Tenzing -----Original Message----- From: matthew patton [mailto:pattonme@XXXXXX] Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 10:46 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 07:45 PM 2/22/04 -0500, LindaT. wrote: > >Perhaps you fail to consider that you are a big guy and a biker and > she is a > >woman. > > And so our rights change? What happened to "everyone is equal in the > eyes of the law"? oh my, that had me in stiches. You don't get it do you. Women are more equal than men, and triply so when it suits their agenda. Inequality is rampant in our judicial system as regards a woman and a man. Try looking at family law some time. > you'd be pretty mad. Lacking that provocation and prior interaction, > there > wouldn't be any reason to feel threatened, would there? Mike, women (sorry ladies no offense intended) do not think on the same rational plain and especially so under stress - why do you think the world's militaries are run by men? You are thinking like a man, analysing, compartementalizing, figuring cause and effect. She is feeling. The difference is so profound and so alien to you and us males that it's takes some metal gymnastics to come close to comprehending. You mere presense is threatening. She is not thinking about cause and effect. She is not analysing why is this guy following me, and whether or not I deserve to be accosted, or did I do something to upset him. Even if in a clinical environment she were able to connect the dots, she is in "i feel threatened" mode. Rational thought went out the window a LONG time ago. If it were a guy in the truck the two of you might exchange some choice words or even blows but frankly neither of you'd feel too bad about it. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 22 23:07:48 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 23:07:39 EST Subject: Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 2/22/2004 4:09:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, pattonme@XXXXXX writes: > Come on > scientists we need a portable force-field device We got em. It is called a car. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 22 23:21:50 2004 From: "Dave Yates" To: "Dc-Cycles" Subject: Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 23:21:43 -0500 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec791e58ac5a49c2c6b67105c7f983e189e4350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c What an off topic load of waste electrons. Bartman pursues errant driver and presumes to correct her. Anybody here remember McCoy's "booting" incident(s) ? We've all felt the need to impose our superior 2 wheeled wisdom upon the great unwashed masses at one time or another. Pretty sure we all think a little different on it now. Errant male posters point out that if Bartman did that to _THEIR_ woman, he'd be toast. Patton dared Pontificate as to the biological differences between males and females and how they perceive. And here we are. Moto content? Nah, long gone. DC bashing thread anyone ? > That is such a sexist load of crap. Yes, family law may favor mothers over > fathers, but most other law and custom favor the established male hierarchy. > That's what we've been working on for years. Glass ceiling and such. > Crimes of passion where a man can kill his wife if she 'dishonors' him in > some fashion. Or maybe just beat the crap outa her. 'She was asking for > it' or 'she made me do it' It's gotten better, but it sure as hell isn't > gone. > > As to how we think, consider this: if you weighed 120# and someone who was a > foot taller and out weighed you by 100# accosted you for whatever reason, > why wouldn't you feel threatened? Regardless of the gender of the > participants. > > And the world's militaries are run by men because everything is run by men. > > BTW, offense taken. > > LindaT. > http://www.customtankbags.com > Now - TankBags for 1800 Wings > Springfield, VA (suburb of our nation's capital) > AMA IBA HSTA BMWBMW > 99 R1100RT Mr. Buzzy > 95 F3 Purple Haze > 00 KLR250 Super Sherpa Tenzing > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: matthew patton [mailto:pattonme@XXXXXX] > Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 10:46 PM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: RE: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) > > > > --- Mike Bartman wrote: > > At 07:45 PM 2/22/04 -0500, LindaT. wrote: > > >Perhaps you fail to consider that you are a big guy and a biker and > > she is a > > >woman. > > > > And so our rights change? What happened to "everyone is equal in the > > eyes of the law"? > > oh my, that had me in stiches. You don't get it do you. Women are more > equal than men, and triply so when it suits their agenda. Inequality is > rampant in our judicial system as regards a woman and a man. Try > looking at family law some time. > > > you'd be pretty mad. Lacking that provocation and prior interaction, > > there > > wouldn't be any reason to feel threatened, would there? > > Mike, women (sorry ladies no offense intended) do not think on the same > rational plain and especially so under stress - why do you think the > world's militaries are run by men? You are thinking like a man, > analysing, compartementalizing, figuring cause and effect. She is > feeling. The difference is so profound and so alien to you and us males > that it's takes some metal gymnastics to come close to comprehending. > You mere presense is threatening. She is not thinking about cause and > effect. She is not analysing why is this guy following me, and whether > or not I deserve to be accosted, or did I do something to upset him. > Even if in a clinical environment she were able to connect the dots, > she is in "i feel threatened" mode. Rational thought went out the > window a LONG time ago. If it were a guy in the truck the two of you > might exchange some choice words or even blows but frankly neither of > you'd feel too bad about it. > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 01:01:33 2004 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 01:00:12 -0500 To: Wayne Edelen , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) At 10:06 PM 2/22/04 -0500, Wayne Edelen wrote: >On Sun, 22 Feb 2004, Mike Bartman wrote: > >> At 09:02 PM 2/22/04 -0500, Wayne Edelen wrote: >> >> >Exactly as I was thinking, Mike. If someone followed my daughter/wife >> >home, they'd be facing a ride in an ambulance. >> >> You people are lawlessly dangerous, and shouldn't be allowed to own >> weapons. Maybe we need some more bans? :-\ > >You're giving yourself too much credit Mike. Nobody is above a good, >old-fashioned ass-whooping. > >:-) True, but it sometimes takes more than one to accomplish it...without the use of "tools". All men are not actually created equal... :^) -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 01:03:59 2004 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 01:03:45 -0500 To: Wayne Edelen , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Crossing the line (was Re: Yesterday's riding) At 10:17 PM 2/22/04 -0500, Wayne Edelen wrote: >I was driving in the parking lot and some girl was in a compact import >coming towards me. She slowly starts drifting towards my truck (we're >going about 15mph). When she gets close enough, I notice she's lighting a >cigarette. She's got her hands cupped around the tip and she's staring at >it like she's trying to will it to light. By the time she gets it lit, >she's completely in my lane and finally looks up as I give her a little >toot on the horn and she swerves violently into her own lane. > >Absolutely clueless :-) Definitely. What's even more distracting than lighting them is when the ash falls off into their laps...trying to put your crotch out while driving has got to be one of the ultimate distractions for a driver. Probably even worse than a cell phone call... We can probalby add that one to the "Why motorcycles are safer than cars" list that we should probably start creating. :^) -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 01:28:24 2004 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 01:28:13 -0500 To: Wayne Edelen , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) At 11:02 PM 2/22/04 -0500, Wayne Edelen wrote: >On Sun, 22 Feb 2004, pltrgyst@XXXXXX wrote: >> Macho can have its price. > >Right, much like bikers intimidating women in parking lots. I wasn't "intimidating" anyone. If I had been things would have been very different. I'd probably have started off by getting off the bike and smashing her side window in, or kicking the daylights out of her truck door, while yelling threats at her. I'm sure that would have been intimidating. Or maybe sticking my face in hers and screaming obscenities at her. That could easily be intimidating. Certainly more than staying on the bike and waiting patiently for her to get her things together and get out of her truck so I could ask her why she'd almost hit me, see what she had to say about it, and suggest how she could avoid doing that to people in the future like I actually did. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 01:46:04 2004 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 01:43:00 -0500 To: matthew patton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) At 07:46 PM 2/22/04 -0800, matthew patton wrote: >Mike, women (sorry ladies no offense intended) do not think on the same >rational plain and especially so under stress - Neither do lots of guys, but I've known many women who are far more rational under stress than some of the guys I've known. I think your stereotype needs updating...before you get into trouble. :^) >why do you think the world's militaries are run by men? Because women are too smart to get into that shit? Because of leftover attitudes from the days when you had to have a lot of muscle to fight a war? Because such organizations require the hierarchical structure men are raised in, rather than the group consensus sort that women get brought up to prefer? (Rob Becker has a *hilarious*, but very true, description of how this works and why mixed groups don't work out very well. Info on his routine here: http://www.cavemania.com/). >You are thinking like a man, >analysing, compartementalizing, figuring cause and effect. She is >feeling. The difference is so profound and so alien to you and us males >that it's takes some metal gymnastics to come close to comprehending. Yes, that's what I do. Probably what you do too, but the "feeling" vs. "thinking" thing isn't divided along sex lines. Consider, for example, Alan Alda...thinking or feeling? Judging by the way elections run in this country I'd guess that well over two thirds the population is more emotion-driven than rational thought-driven. If you look at things like the Myers-Briggs personality sorter, it's probably closer to 90%, since the folks in the ENTP group (your serious rational thinking/analyzing types) are only about 5-10% of the population. If she'd really felt threatened by me, she wouldn't have gotten out of her truck while I was sitting next to it...whether she arrived at that decision by reason or by simple fear. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 05:54:19 2004 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 05:54:13 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: Dave Yates , Dc-Cycles Subject: Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) Bingo, Yates proves that even a stopped clock is right twice a day. ;-) Yes, this thread has become quite a load. Personally, I think trying to "correct" a cager's bad driving through admonition or intimidation is a waste of time, unless you can get Officer Friendly and his ticket book involved, ala Brian McCoy's bike cam. What are you going to do the next time it happens? Become a full time traffic nanny? And yes, anyone who has to temerity to "follow" me or my spouse is going to have some esplainin' to do. BTW, if I'm on a bike they ain't gonna be "following" me for very long. :) Let's leave the vehicular shadowing derring-do to the cop shows and spy thrillers. --Paul in DC 95 VFR - 86 VF500F -----Original Message----- From: Dave Yates What an off topic load of waste electrons. Bartman pursues errant driver and presumes to correct her. Anybody here remember McCoy's "booting" incident(s) ? We've all felt the need to impose our superior 2 wheeled wisdom upon the great unwashed masses at one time or another. Pretty sure we all think a little different on it now. Errant male posters point out that if Bartman did that to _THEIR_ woman, he'd be toast. Patton dared Pontificate as to the biological differences between males and females and how they perceive. And here we are. Moto content? Nah, long gone. DC bashing thread anyone ? > That is such a sexist load of crap. Yes, family law may favor mothers over > fathers, but most other law and custom favor the established male hierarchy. > That's what we've been working on for years. Glass ceiling and such. > Crimes of passion where a man can kill his wife if she 'dishonors' him in > some fashion. Or maybe just beat the crap outa her. 'She was asking for > it' or 'she made me do it' It's gotten better, but it sure as hell isn't > gone. > > As to how we think, consider this: if you weighed 120# and someone who was a > foot taller and out weighed you by 100# accosted you for whatever reason, > why wouldn't you feel threatened? Regardless of the gender of the > participants. > > And the world's militaries are run by men because everything is run by men. > > BTW, offense taken. > > LindaT. > http://www.customtankbags.com > Now - TankBags for 1800 Wings > Springfield, VA (suburb of our nation's capital) > AMA IBA HSTA BMWBMW > 99 R1100RT Mr. Buzzy > 95 F3 Purple Haze > 00 KLR250 Super Sherpa Tenzing > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: matthew patton [mailto:pattonme@XXXXXX] > Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 10:46 PM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: RE: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) > > > > --- Mike Bartman wrote: > > At 07:45 PM 2/22/04 -0500, LindaT. wrote: > > >Perhaps you fail to consider that you are a big guy and a biker and > > she is a > > >woman. > > > > And so our rights change? What happened to "everyone is equal in the > > eyes of the law"? > > oh my, that had me in stiches. You don't get it do you. Women are more > equal than men, and triply so when it suits their agenda. Inequality is > rampant in our judicial system as regards a woman and a man. Try > looking at family law some time. > > > you'd be pretty mad. Lacking that provocation and prior interaction, > > there > > wouldn't be any reason to feel threatened, would there? > > Mike, women (sorry ladies no offense intended) do not think on the same > rational plain and especially so under stress - why do you think the > world's militaries are run by men? You are thinking like a man, > analysing, compartementalizing, figuring cause and effect. She is > feeling. The difference is so profound and so alien to you and us males > that it's takes some metal gymnastics to come close to comprehending. > You mere presense is threatening. She is not thinking about cause and > effect. She is not analysing why is this guy following me, and whether > or not I deserve to be accosted, or did I do something to upset him. > Even if in a clinical environment she were able to connect the dots, > she is in "i feel threatened" mode. Rational thought went out the > window a LONG time ago. If it were a guy in the truck the two of you > might exchange some choice words or even blows but frankly neither of > you'd feel too bad about it. > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 07:21:08 2004 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 04:20:55 -0800 (PST) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) To: DC-CYCLES@XXXXXX How could we forget that? Speaking of such, this was forwarded to me last week: http://www.darladog.com/modules/Photo_Gallery/motorcycles/January_14_2002_2 Glenn --- Dave Yates wrote: Anybody here > remember McCoy's "booting" incident(s) ? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 07:47:30 2004 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: McCoy (was Bartman's escapades) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 07:47:18 -0500 McCoy was THE MAN on the Seca II list. Any question you had he knew the answer. >From: Glenn Dysart >To: DC-CYCLES@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) >Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 04:20:55 -0800 (PST) > >How could we forget that? Speaking of such, this was >forwarded to me last week: > >http://www.darladog.com/modules/Photo_Gallery/motorcycles/January_14_2002_2 > >Glenn > >--- Dave Yates wrote: > Anybody here > > remember McCoy's "booting" incident(s) ? _________________________________________________________________ Stay informed on Election 2004 and the race to Super Tuesday. http://special.msn.com/msn/election2004.armx From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 08:00:07 2004 Subject: Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 23 Feb 2004 07:56:33 -0500 On Sun, 2004-02-22 at 12:38, Mike Bartman wrote: > At 11:04 AM 2/21/04 -0800, Carl Schelin wrote: > > >I cleaned the hawg last weekend. Yesterday at 7/11 someone asked if I had > >just bought the bike. Nope, just cleaned it ;-) > > I had to do that last week after riding during the snow melt and getting > covered in salt... > I guess I don't get that much salt when I'm out riding. She was a bit on the dirty side but that's about it. I found more chipped paint from the extra rocks that are on the road (got whacked pretty good on my shin last week even through the JR pants). > >Nice little ride this morning just out and around getting gas and the > >morning paper. It's still a bit chilly for Rita though. > > It wasn't as warm yesterday as it was supposed to be, but it was warm > enough not to need the leather pants or long johns. Even used the summer > gloves and was fine that way. Only went about 30 miles...warm up, gas up, > do a little shopping and come home...but it was mostly nice. If you > ignored the strong gust winds...not much of a problem except at stop > lights. A heavy bike has its advantages. :^) > Oh yea. Nice little run around. > I did have my first encounter with people changing lanes into me though. > First was a car, and she was just barely ahead of me, so I was only > slightly annoyed, but the second was a pickup truck, and I was passing on > the left (middle lane for me, right for it) almost even with the front door > when it started over. I hit the brakes and the horn (in that order), but > it didn't swerve back or anything...just came on over like I wasn't there. > No apologetic wave or anything either. > That's what usually torques me off. I can understand not seeing me, no shoulder looking, no mirror, but at least acknowledge that you screwed up and do the apologetic wave. At worst you'll get the finger. > That pissed me off. I followed it home. > That might not have been the best idea (yea, I've been reading the other comments). Rita likes to say that we have the right of way when we're crossing the street, but I still don't want to argue with a big metallic object. I'm not winning that one. Good luck next time though and good job on seeing it coming. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 08:02:54 2004 Subject: RE: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 23 Feb 2004 07:59:27 -0500 On Sun, 2004-02-22 at 17:38, Mike Bartman wrote: > At 01:02 PM 2/22/04 -0800, matthew patton wrote: > >I increasingly like that whole 18-wheeler > >air-horn idea. Not that I find myself in situations with any kind of > regularity... > > One of the guys in the local HOG group has one of those on his bike...or, > rather, the motorcycle equivalent. Mounts where the normal horn goes (left > side ahead of the coil), but what's in the "bell" that housed the original > horn is the air pump. The new horn is mounted ahead of that, aimed > forward. It's LOUD. > Yea, I think Carl in Brrrthesda has one. I haven't heard it yet though. > The horn on my bike is pretty loud...and sounds as authoritative as any > car. Certainly better than the cartoon "beep beep" you get with some > bikes and small imports. A good solid "HONK!!" > Without my earplugs the hawg horn is very loud. The pipes are loud too. I had someone weave towards my lane the other day. As I came abreast, he jerked back to the right. I have to assume he heard the bike (or saw it out of the corner of his eye). > -- Mike B. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 08:08:15 2004 Subject: News: Man arrested for watching porn while driving From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 23 Feb 2004 08:04:47 -0500 http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_868248.html I don't even what to know what he was doing ;-) Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 08:22:49 2004 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 05:22:46 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Fwd: RE: [co-hsta] Re: Definition Please To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Since I'm reading two bike lists, I occasionally get an interesting message that I'd like to pass over. In this thread, someone asked what the definition of a "squid" was and here's one reply with my reply. Carl --- Carl Schelin wrote: > Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 17:20:14 -0800 (PST) > From: Carl Schelin > Subject: RE: [co-hsta] Re: Definition Please > To: co-hsta@XXXXXX > > > --- Brian Street wrote: > > That can be an understatement. > > > > My personal definition has to do with a point system: > > 5 pts riding a suzuki > > Check > > > 10 pts if said Suzuki is a GSXR > > Check > > > 10 pts no helmet > > 20 pts helmet attached permanently to side of bike > > 10 pts wearing thongs (or other sandals) > > 20 pts if passenger is wearing a bikini and no jacket > > 20 pts for a stoppie on the road when cars are on the road within a > 1/4 > > > > mile radius > > 5 pts for wheelies > > 20 pts for wheelies over 3 blocks in length or in traffic > > > > oh, and 5 pts for dropping your bike, knocking bikes belonging to > others > > over > > It takes 6 points to be a squid. > > Damn, then I'm a squid. I'm going to have to start acting like one now. > Is > there a definition of how to act like a squid (other than the short list > above). > > Gotta start practicing wheelies and stoppies now. Man, who knew the > responsibilities in owning a GSXR? > > > > > I am sure others can add to this list. > > Prolly need a Poser list too. > > Bike: > 10 points for having a chopper/bobber and being younger than 40 > 15 points for having a Japanese Cruiser > 20 points for having a Harley-Davidson > 5 points for having hidden shocks > 25 points for having a custom cruiser > 5 points for every thousand over $10,000 that you paid for the cruiser > > Usage: > -5 points for every thousand miles traveled over the year of the cruiser > 5 Points for each additional piece of chrome on your cruiser > 10 points for each weekend you spend cleaning instead of riding > 10 points for every thousand miles trailered to motorcycle events > 20 point bonus for trailering to Sturgus or to "The Ride Home" > > Gear: > Helmet > 10 points for a open faced helmet > 15 points for a half-helmet > 20 points for no helmet > 25 points for a beanie (non-DOT/Snell) > Clothes (start with 25 points) > -5 points for ankle height leather boots > -5 points for leather/textile pants > -5 points for leather/textile jacket > -10 points for full finger leather/textile gloves > -1 point for each piece of armor > > Probably could think of a lot more given time. Oh, and you're the master > poser if you have a custom cruiser from West Coast Choppers or from OCC. > > Later, > > Carl > 15 points for the GSXR > 20 points for the Softail > > ===== > 02 Harley FXSTI > 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W > 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. > http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools > ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 09:06:43 2004 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 06:06:34 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: RE: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- matthew patton started out well with: > oh my, that had me in stiches. You don't get it do you. Women are more > equal than men, and triply so when it suits their agenda. Inequality is > rampant in our judicial system as regards a woman and a man. Try > looking at family law some time. ...but then went off the deep end: > Mike, women (sorry ladies no offense intended) do not think on the same > rational plain and especially so under stress - why do you think the > world's militaries are run by men? Ummm, that would be because men are the only sentient beings stupid and gullible enough to put their lives on the line in the military for someone else's political ambitions. Apart from that, however, women have been represented of the nastiest authorities in history. Look to nations like Israel for recent examples. Or Margaret Thatcher in jolly old England, whom I would not care to have passing judgement on me. In my little corner of 'Nam, the most vicious of all area interrogators was the woman in charge, who had dedicated her life to making up for the loss of her husband. Nope -- give me a stupid, macho male every time. At least they're predictable. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 09:23:00 2004 Subject: As I sent my bike to the shop............... Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 09:26:05 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: At first I had the arrogance to think that dropping a bike would be an ultra-rare event. My reflexes and rational thought processes (at least while driving) would keep me upright. After having my bike knocked over I realized that it really is only a matter of time. For those with time on their hands and those interested it would be an edifying experience to hear some stories of those that have dropped a bike while riding it and how it happened. Think of it as a chance to prevent someone else doing the same thing. Also, is anyone doing anything for Daytona? What about a meet at Grevey's or Carpool in Arlington? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 09:40:04 2004 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Daytona (was: As I sent my bike to the shop) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 09:39:33 -0500 www.motorcycleleatherexchange.com Jay is on the list, he's invited everyone over to watch at his place in Rockville. >From: "Julian Halton" >To: >Subject: As I sent my bike to the shop............... >Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 09:26:05 -0500 > >Also, is anyone doing anything for Daytona? What about a meet at >Grevey's or Carpool in Arlington? _________________________________________________________________ Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click here. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 09:48:01 2004 Subject: RE: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 09:47:52 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: X-imss-version: 2.0 X-imss-result: Passed X-imss-approveListMatch: *@nextel.com Wow! I don't read the list for a couple of days, and an interactive novel gets written... Although I have some strong feelings about the (presumptive) issue, I am most amazed that people had so much time to spend in front of the computer on a gorgeous riding weekend! On Saturday I went down to Fredericksburg, starting from Old Town Alexandria. Nasty bit of road on the onramp to 95 South from 495 North; looks like one of those metal seam jobbies parallel to the flow of traffic, and right in the middle of my travel lane. Little bit of headshake, but the 120-section front tire refrained from tracking the groove, a good thing as I was leaned over through the underpass. My pillion didn't mention anything, so must have escaped her notice. Traffic southbound on 95 was moderate, but getting closer to Fredsburg, I sure felt the wind cutting across my direction of travel. Had the bike leaned over in a ridiculous fashion whilst riding in a stright line, and lane shifts to the right were an exercise in disbelief. Lane shifts to the left were a mere wriggle of the bars, and sometimes not even that... ;-) Weather Channel said winds of 10-20 mph, felt like gusts of 40 at least. Passed a few other riders headed south, on Harleys, but didn't see many riders out until I was on Hwy 1, then it was mostly BMW riders. Looked at a bike in Spotsylvania, my ostensible reason for the trip, and visited Morton's BMW on the way back to 1. Drooled over a R1150GS Adventure, what a Humvee of a bike! They were having a sale on some items, but I also heard that when they move into new digs in the next couple of weeks that there will be more stuff for sale cheap(er). As it was, they had Widder electric gloves for 78.00, amongst other goodies. Was going to head back via Culpepper, 17 and 66, but the hour was getting late and the temps were dropping. Quite a chill breeze late Saturday. Visited Java Connection in Fredericksburg to recharge before the ride back (great prices on whole-bean coffee!), then went north on Hwy 1 to Triangle. We turned West just at the main gate to Quantico, tootled though the Prince William Forest on a nice windy little road (I've mis-placed the road number) and then back to Falls Church via 234, Manassas, and finally I-66. Sunday was spent lazing about, I only rode out to the new theater near the Fairfax County Government Center to see LoTR-RotK, then to Reston Town Center for dinner before heading home. The morning commute was a fine thing, and all in all, a great time riding was had this past few days. It could stay positive 10)B Celsuis all winter, wouldn't hurt my feelings a bit! From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 10:42:47 2004 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 10:42:32 -0500 From: Laura Roach To: Mike Bartman CC: Wayne Edelen , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) Mike Bartman wrote: >You people are lawlessly dangerous, and shouldn't be allowed to own >weapons. Maybe we need some more bans? :-\ > > > > Mike, I can understand why you were pissed, believe me, we all do. It's frustrating that non-riders don't pay more attention to motorcycles, but it just seems that's the way it is right now. Even in our MSF class, they teach us that people don't look for us while we're on our bikes and to pay more attention. The one thing I would comment about is that you never know now-a-days who is packing heat...maybe not in Maryland because they don't have a CWP law yet, but in VA they do. Following someone home could have endangered your life. As a woman, even though we all feel we have "equal rights" men vs. women, I would have felt threatened by someone following me home. Almost any guy is larger than I am, and I would have felt extremely nervous by the situation. People are crazy these days, just watch out for yourself and be safe. LAR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 10:53:35 2004 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 10:53:27 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: "Verde, Robert" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) -----Original Message----- From: "Verde, Robert" Subject: RE: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) Wow! I don't read the list for a couple of days, and an interactive novel gets written... Although I have some strong feelings about the (presumptive) issue, I am most amazed that people had so much time to spend in front of the computer on a gorgeous riding weekend! ------------------------------ Hear, hear! Or is that here, here?? It's always a little interesting how folks would rather pound the keyboard talking about riding (or issues peripheral to it) than go out and actually ride. Especially when it's in the 50s in Feb. I spent Saturday wrenching the VFR and most of yesterday at work. I did get in a nice "test ride" on Saturday once the work was done. I replaced the exhaust system on the VFR, which had developed "issues" (exhaust system leaks) following last summer's crash. The bike now has a new-to-me Jet-Hot coated stock exhaust. Paul in DC 95 VFR - 86VF500F From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 10:57:20 2004 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 10:57:20 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: RE: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) At 10:53 AM 2/23/2004, Paul Wilson wrote: >It's always a little interesting how folks would rather pound the keyboard >talking about riding (or issues peripheral to it) than go out and actually >ride. Yeah, because in a simple world we can ride 24x7. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 11:03:20 2004 Subject: RE: Yesterday's riding Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 11:03:10 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Paul Wilson" , X-imss-version: 2.0 X-imss-result: Passed X-imss-approveListMatch: *@nextel.com I got my Laser 4-1 exhaust system Jet-Hot coated before I put it on, and I have to say that I've rarely felt any appreciable heat from the pipe. I do feel the warm air when the fans kick in, and some heat rises while sitting at a light, but nothing specifically from the right (exhaust) side. Only things I would have had done differently is to have the pipes coated inside as well, I didn't specify that service and was too lazy to send them back. Probably for the best, fitting the pipes into the collector was fiddly enough as it was, I can imagine the struggle if I had had the interior surfaces coated. Robert -----Original Message----- From: Paul Wilson [mailto:viffermaniac@XXXXXX] Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 10:53 AM To: Verde, Robert; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) -----Original Message----- From: "Verde, Robert" Subject: RE: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) ------------------------------ Hear, hear! Or is that here, here?? It's always a little interesting how folks would rather pound the keyboard talking about riding (or issues peripheral to it) than go out and actually ride. Especially when it's in the 50s in Feb. I spent Saturday wrenching the VFR and most of yesterday at work. I did get in a nice "test ride" on Saturday once the work was done. I replaced the exhaust system on the VFR, which had developed "issues" (exhaust system leaks) following last summer's crash. The bike now has a new-to-me Jet-Hot coated stock exhaust. Paul in DC 95 VFR - 86VF500F From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 11:08:49 2004 Subject: RE: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 23 Feb 2004 11:05:21 -0500 On Mon, 2004-02-23 at 10:53, Paul Wilson wrote: > Hear, hear! Or is that here, here?? It's always a little interesting how > folks would rather pound the keyboard talking about riding (or issues > peripheral to it) than go out and actually ride. Dude! I'm at work. I _could_ go out riding but I'm sure my stuff would be boxed up and on the front step after just a few incidents > Especially when it's in > the 50s in Feb. I spent Saturday wrenching the VFR and most of yesterday > at work. Oh, you meant Saturday. Nevermind ;-) > I did get in a nice "test ride" on Saturday once the work was > done. I replaced the exhaust system on the VFR, which had developed "issues" > (exhaust system leaks) following last summer's crash. The bike now has a > new-to-me Jet-Hot coated stock exhaust. > I got my risers last week for the chopper and pseudo-mounted them Saturday. They are a little on the large side but I'll work with what I have and see how it turns out :-) > Paul in DC > 95 VFR - 86VF500F Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 11:21:26 2004 From: "Sean Steele" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 11:20:27 -0500 Subject: Robbing me of my faith in humanity... X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information So I walk back to my place near Georgetown on Sunday morning from my GF's place in Dupont Circle ... only to find my bike lying on its right side, dripping gasoline. There was a Honda Accord parked right next to it, on the side from which a "bump" would have come, and knocked it over, but since there were no witnesses, no obvious impact paint evidence, and no cops around to kvetch at -- I struggled the bike upright and back on to its side stand, and surveyed the damage: - busted front brake lever - brake line pulled undone - handlebar end scratched up - busted front right brake light housing/bulb/mount - dented tank - scratched front right fairing (at least it matches the left now...) - more and better scratches on engine housing At this point, I'm pretty sure some form of "humanity" pushed my bike over in a (probably) inebriated state -- "bike tipping" anyone? -- or the Honda bump-parked into it, knocking it over. Without any evidence, there was little reason for me to file a police report or accuse the Honda driver (MD plates, o' course...) Durn it all. At least I got two rides in this W/E before the thugs got to it. A 'lil note apologizing to me would have been nice, you know?? -Sean '93 Seca II (upright now, thankyouverymuch) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 11:26:21 2004 Subject: Re: Robbing me of my faith in humanity... From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 23 Feb 2004 11:22:54 -0500 That sucks. Have you considered one of the bike stands that were discussed last week? You could chain it to the wheel. It'd be an extra step to bring it in to and out of your place when you wanted to ride, but you'd have peace of mind that it's not being cow-tipped. Carl On Mon, 2004-02-23 at 11:20, Sean Steele wrote: > So I walk back to my place near Georgetown on Sunday morning from my > GF's place in Dupont Circle ... only to find my bike lying on its right > side, dripping gasoline. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 11:32:59 2004 From: "Sean Steele" To: "DC Cycles" Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 11:32:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Robbing me of my faith in humanity... X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information One item of interest -- after two drops in 4 months -- one arguably my fault, one not -- the bike runs fine (flooded carbs notwithstanding). I'm sooooo happy I got an older, used bike as my first. I'd have been out thousands of bucks (instead of hundreds) by now, with a new bike. And I am, now, a confirmed rat bike owner ;-) -Sean Troutman wrote: > That has to be incredibly frustrating Sean. Sorry to hear it. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 11:33:03 2004 Subject: RE: Robbing me of my faith in humanity... Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 11:32:55 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Sean Steele" , X-imss-version: 2.0 X-imss-result: Passed X-imss-approveListMatch: *@nextel.com Bummer! Pretty lame to knock it over and make no attempt to right it, makes me suspect it was a hit-and-knockover-and-run. I'd still file a police report, especially if you choose to make an insurance claim, because if anyone comes forward and reports seeing a bike get tipped over, the law may be able to connect the two reports and get a lead on a potential perpetrator. When I spotted a bike get knocked over in the parking lot at Reston Town Center, I called in a report the next day, but I was told that no bike owner had reported getting their bike damaged. Robert -----Original Message----- From: Sean Steele [mailto:sean@XXXXXX] Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 11:20 AM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Robbing me of my faith in humanity... So I walk back to my place near Georgetown on Sunday morning from my GF's place in Dupont Circle ... only to find my bike lying on its right side, dripping gasoline. There was a Honda Accord parked right next to it, on the side from which a "bump" would have come, and knocked it over, but since there were no witnesses, no obvious impact paint evidence, and no cops around to kvetch at -- I struggled the bike upright and back on to its side stand, and surveyed the damage: From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 11:34:55 2004 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 11:34:49 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: Sean Steele , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Robbing me of my faith in humanity... Sorry to hear that. What we need are marauding bands of Bike Avengers, a la the Masked Bartman. We lie in wait for these bike-knocking-over cager excrescences to emerge from their hidey holes, we follow them home and beat the crap out of them. That'll teach 'em. I've toyed with the idea of video surveillance from time to time, but decided that was just way too obsessive. :) I've had a note left a couple times, in my many tipovers. No real damage in either case, just a scuffed bar end, so I didn't pursue the note-leaver. Paul in DC 95 VFR - 86 VF500F -----Original Message----- From: Sean Steele At this point, I'm pretty sure some form of "humanity" pushed my bike over in a (probably) inebriated state -- "bike tipping" anyone? -- or the Honda bump-parked into it, knocking it over. Without any evidence, there was little reason for me to file a police report or accuse the Honda driver (MD plates, o' course...) Durn it all. At least I got two rides in this W/E before the thugs got to it. A 'lil note apologizing to me would have been nice, you know?? -Sean '93 Seca II (upright now, thankyouverymuch) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 11:40:12 2004 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 11:40:08 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: "Verde, Robert" , Sean Steele , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Robbing me of my faith in humanity... -----Original Message----- From: "Verde, Robert" Subject: RE: Robbing me of my faith in humanity... .... I'd still file a police report, especially if you choose to make an insurance claim, because if anyone comes forward and reports seeing a bike get tipped over, the law may be able to connect the two reports and get a lead on a potential perpetrator. When I spotted a bike get knocked over in the parking lot at Reston Town Center, I called in a report the next day, but I was told that no bike owner had reported getting their bike damaged. Robert ----------------------- Let me guess, Robert, you don't live in the District? :) Police, investigate a property crime? Put two and two together? That's a good one, but you're about five weeks early for an April Fool's Day gag. You're lucky if they come out to take a report when it gets *stolen.* Paul in DC 95 VFR - 86 VF500F From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 11:47:51 2004 Subject: RE: Robbing me of my faith in humanity... Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 11:47:42 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Paul Wilson" , "Sean Steele" , X-imss-version: 2.0 X-imss-result: Passed X-imss-approveListMatch: *@nextel.com Waal, podner, it's a mite bit different out here in the sticks... ;-) Yep, I do live in the outer limits of civilization; AKA, Arlington. I would think that getting incidents like this documented falls under the category of good things, but I could be wrong. For example, if Sean receives a note left on his bike later this week mentioning the number of the car that knocked over his bike, he would have a report filed with the police that he could refer to, potentially getting a citation issued. On the other hand, the only downside I can see to filing a report is the loss of time, more than outweighed in my opinion by the possible future value of the documented incident. RV -----Original Message----- From: Paul Wilson [mailto:viffermaniac@XXXXXX] Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 11:40 AM To: Verde, Robert; Sean Steele; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Robbing me of my faith in humanity... -----Original Message----- From: "Verde, Robert" Subject: RE: Robbing me of my faith in humanity... .... I'd still file a police report, especially if you choose to make an insurance claim, because if anyone comes forward and reports seeing a bike get tipped over, the law may be able to connect the two reports and get a lead on a potential perpetrator. When I spotted a bike get knocked over in the parking lot at Reston Town Center, I called in a report the next day, but I was told that no bike owner had reported getting their bike damaged. Robert ----------------------- Let me guess, Robert, you don't live in the District? :) Police, investigate a property crime? Put two and two together? That's a good one, but you're about five weeks early for an April Fool's Day gag. You're lucky if they come out to take a report when it gets *stolen.* Paul in DC 95 VFR - 86 VF500F From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 12:32:06 2004 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 12:35:38 -0500 Subject: Re: Robbing me of my faith in humanity... To: "Sean Steele" Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "garcia oliver" "Sean Steele" writes: >my bike lying on its right >side, dripping gasoline. There was a Honda Accord parked right next to >it, on the side from which a "bump" would have come, and knocked it >over, but since there were no witnesses, [snip] Ask around. I tracked down two of the last three similar perps that way. In DC. --garcia From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 12:37:59 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 12:37:41 EST Subject: Re: Crossing the line (was Re: Yesterday's riding) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 2/23/2004 1:04:19 AM Eastern Standard Time, omni@XXXXXX writes: > What's even more distracting than lighting them is when the > ash falls off into their laps...trying to put your crotch out while driving > has got to be one of the ultimate distractions for a driver. I was once following a guy I knew on the fourth of July, he was lighting M-80s * and throwing them out of his open window. Then he dropped one into his lap 8-O !!!!!!! Now _that_ is distracting! (Fortunately (for him) he was at a stop sign, and _very_ quick! Thing blew before it hit the pavement *_Not_ M-80 _brand_ a _real_ M-80. Something like 1/8 stick of dynamite. Most of you have never seen a real one, you just think you have. New "bumper sticker" on the ST1100. "Eat right, stay fit, DIE ANYWAY!" John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 13:03:27 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 13:03:13 EST Subject: Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX People do shit like pull out in front of others because they know that no one will call them on it. And they will continue to do it until someone does, or they kill someone. Thems the facts. She will think twice before she does it again, not because he was polite but because she now feels vulnerable, the next biker may be just a _little_ crazier then he was. She is not as invisible as she thought she was. Was it a potentially dangerous thing to do? Hell yes! But he did stay on his bike and could have ridden away if it looked dicey. And if she had to call her S.O. to come "save" her then she was scared. _Mission accomplished_ without his even stopping. It has been a long time since I followed someone all the way home, but I have let people know that I have their number, that I saw _them_ not some anonymous car, _them_ the driver. I want to strip away that feeling of anonymity that cage drivers have and make them feel vulnerable. They do not pull out in front of big hairy trucks because they could be hurt, I want them to feel the same way about bikes. Is it an illusion? Hell yes, I have no intention of harming anyone. I just want to replace their illusion of safety with a more realistic one. Nice? Hell no. I aint out there to be nice. Alive? yes. nice? F@#k em. New "bumper sticker" on the ST1100. "Eat right, stay fit, DIE ANYWAY!" John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 13:06:30 2004 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 13:05:44 -0500 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: glenn_dysart@XXXXXX, DC-CYCLES@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) X-AOL-IP: 65.86.98.162 Hmmmm........Brian McCoy. Sounds familiar. ;-) Scooter In a message dated 2/23/2004 7:20:55 AM Eastern Standard Time, glenn_dysart@XXXXXX writes: > > > How could we forget that? Speaking of such, this was > forwarded to me last week: > > http://www.darladog.com/modules/Photo_Gallery/motorcycles/Ja > nuary_14_2002_2 > > Glenn > > --- Dave Yates wrote: > Anybody here > > remember McCoy's "booting" incident(s) ? > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. > http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 13:09:33 2004 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 13:08:45 -0500 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: glenn_dysart@XXXXXX, DC-CYCLES@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 Hmmmm........Brian McCoy. Sounds familiar. ;-) Scooter In a message dated 2/23/2004 7:20:55 AM Eastern Standard Time, glenn_dysart@XXXXXX writes: > > > How could we forget that? Speaking of such, this was > forwarded to me last week: > > http://www.darladog.com/modules/Photo_Gallery/motorcycles/Ja > nuary_14_2002_2 > > Glenn > > --- Dave Yates wrote: > Anybody here > > remember McCoy's "booting" incident(s) ? > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. > http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 13:10:47 2004 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 13:27:44 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > They do not pull out in front of big hairy trucks because they could be hurt, > I want them to feel the same way about bikes. You're wrong about that, John. Speaking from my own experience when towing a car trailer with car on it, people treat me like I'm invisible. Also, when driving down the interstate, I see people cut off big rigs/18 wheelers as often as any other vehicles. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 13:12:39 2004 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 13:09:50 -0500 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) At 07:56 AM 2/23/04 -0500, Carl Schelin wrote: >On Sun, 2004-02-22 at 12:38, Mike Bartman wrote: >> I had to do that last week after riding during the snow melt and getting >> covered in salt... > >I guess I don't get that much salt when I'm out riding. She was a bit on >the dirty side but that's about it. They put a *bunch* down in Montgomery County this year. The roads in some places were white with it. I went riding as the snow was really starting to melt, so there were a lot of wet patches, and those where mostly salt water. Vehicles ahead of me kicked it up, and it ended up on my legs, helmet, windshield, headlights, front fender, etc.. The leathers and helmet got a good wipe down with some very wet paper towels, and the bike got washed...problem solved. It's not as bad now, but it could use another wash...the recent couple of rides have picked up a little bit more salt, but not a lot. Probably wash it in the next few days if it stays above freezing. The Cycle Dry blower thing works pretty well for getting all the water off of it in a hurry. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 13:16:12 2004 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: GP Armor Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 13:15:40 -0500 Bought a new jacket this weekend w/ dual density foam armor. Would it be worth it to put in GP armor? New enough has elbow & shoulder for $34 before shipping. Thanks, Rich '02 SVS _________________________________________________________________ Get fast, reliable access with MSN 9 Dial-up. Click here for Special Offer! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 13:25:57 2004 Subject: Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 23 Feb 2004 13:22:29 -0500 On Mon, 2004-02-23 at 13:09, Mike Bartman wrote: > At 07:56 AM 2/23/04 -0500, Carl Schelin wrote: > >On Sun, 2004-02-22 at 12:38, Mike Bartman wrote: > > >> I had to do that last week after riding during the snow melt and getting > >> covered in salt... > > > >I guess I don't get that much salt when I'm out riding. She was a bit on > >the dirty side but that's about it. > > They put a *bunch* down in Montgomery County this year. Maybe I'm not seeing it, but I think we use more sand than salt, and maybe some of that non-salt ice melter. Someone else here may know for sure. > It's not as bad now, but it could use another wash...the recent couple of > rides have picked up a little bit more salt, but not a lot. Probably wash > it in the next few days if it stays above freezing. The Cycle Dry blower > thing works pretty well for getting all the water off of it in a hurry. > I want to get the GSXR out for a wash. I've ridden it a few times over the past month so it hasn't been out much. Weirldy I'm getting an oil drizzle from the filler cap but the level seems to stay about the same. > > -- Mike B. > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 13:43:53 2004 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 13:15:28 -0500 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Fwd: RE: [co-hsta] Re: Definition Please At 05:22 AM 2/23/04 -0800, Carl Schelin wrote: >In this thread, someone asked what the definition of a "squid" was and >here's one reply with my reply. I always thought it was short for "squirreley kid"? Not that that conflicts with the definition you gave. The poser things seems reasonable as to items, but the points allocated need work. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 13:49:44 2004 Subject: RE: Fwd: RE: [co-hsta] Re: Definition Please Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 13:49:16 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: X-imss-version: 2.0 X-imss-result: Passed X-imss-approveListMatch: *@nextel.com Based on reading the list re-define the term every year or so, the definition that stuck with me was a descriptive one; a squid is what the person riding the bike looks like when they hit the road in an accident, while wearing little or no protective gear. Works for me. By the way, 1SQUID is still available as a VA custom moto plate. No pushing, please!. Robert From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 13:54:09 2004 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 13:48:59 -0500 To: Paul Wilson , Sean Steele , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Robbing me of my faith in humanity... At 11:34 AM 2/23/04 -0500, Paul Wilson wrote: >Sorry to hear that. What we need are marauding bands of Bike Avengers, a la the Masked Bartman. We lie in wait for these bike-knocking-over cager excrescences to emerge from their hidey holes, we follow them home and beat the crap out of them. That'll teach 'em. Why go to that sort of trouble? Just get a good scoped rifle and drop them where they stand... >I've toyed with the idea of video surveillance from time to time, but decided that was just way too obsessive. :) If you decide to do that, X-10 makes fairly cheap color cameras that you can mount anywhere (they even have a battery-powered one) and that transmit to a receiver elsewhere, so you don't need wires. They also have a motion sensor that can transmit to a VCR controller, so you only record when there's motion to pick up. Couple of hundred bucks will get you all of that. There's also, for extra money, a link to a PC with software to put the images on a web site, so you can monitor from anywhere. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 14:16:09 2004 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Definition Please Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 14:16:01 -0500 Best one I've heard is a squid swims fast in a straight line, slow in when it's turning. >From: "Verde, Robert" >To: >Subject: RE: Fwd: RE: [co-hsta] Re: Definition Please >Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 13:49:16 -0500 > >Based on reading the list re-define the term every year or so, the >definition that stuck with me was a descriptive one; a squid is what the >person riding the bike looks like when they hit the road in an accident, >while wearing little or no protective gear. Works for me. _________________________________________________________________ Click, drag and drop. My MSN is the simple way to design your homepage. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200364ave/direct/01/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 14:38:16 2004 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 11:38:08 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX i don't have time to read all the posts on this subject, but there would seem to be a viable assault case against mr. bartman (if pursued) and *maybe* grounds for a negligent driving citation against the driver. mike b., i thought you were 6'4" and 250+ lbs.? do you really think following/scaring young ladies is reasonable given the facts of this situation? your own story indicates she was careless, nothing more. --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 08:37 PM 2/22/04 -0500, Troutman wrote: > >Just be aware that your behavior is considered > threatening and could easily > >result in major consequences. > > Why is it "considered threatening", and by whom? Since > when is speaking to > someone (another adult), in public, "threatening"? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 15:43:12 2004 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 12:42:59 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Fwd: RE: [co-hsta] Re: Definition Please To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX someone quite underdressed inviting disaster? --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 05:22 AM 2/23/04 -0800, Carl Schelin wrote: > > >In this thread, someone asked what the definition of a > "squid" was and > >here's one reply with my reply. > > I always thought it was short for "squirreley kid"? Not > that that > conflicts with the definition you gave. > > The poser things seems reasonable as to items, but the > points allocated > need work. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 16:06:25 2004 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 15:51:54 -0500 To: Wayne Edelen , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) At 01:27 PM 2/23/04 -0500, Wayne Edelen wrote: >Also, when driving down the interstate, I see people cut off big rigs/18 >wheelers as often as any other vehicles. I think it's lack of driver training, laziness/carelessness, and poorly-adjusted mirrors. They don't know how to set the mirrors to see what they need to see, they don't know that's the case, and they don't bother to turn their heads to look either. Ergo, they "didn't see you", and it doesn't matter what you are on or in. The cure is to call their attention to the problem and tell them how to fix it. After that, it's all up to them. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 16:06:25 2004 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 16:06:20 -0500 To: Tom Gimer , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) At 11:38 AM 2/23/04 -0800, Tom Gimer wrote: >i don't have time to read all the posts on this subject, >but there would seem to be a viable assault case against >mr. bartman (if pursued) and *maybe* grounds for a >negligent driving citation against the driver. I really doubt it. Trying to speak with someone in public is hardly "assault" by any rational definition. Of course, the law hasn't been rational for a very long time, what with charging cars with various offenses and whatnot. >mike b., i thought you were 6'4" and 250+ lbs.? do you I haven't been that short, or that light, in a while now. >really think following/scaring young ladies is reasonable >given the facts of this situation? your own story >indicates she was careless, nothing more. And all I did was follow until I could safely tell her what I thought of her carelessness, in hopes that maybe she'd be less careless next time. If she was scared, it was only out of guilt. Why is it that some people here think it's ok to "follow me" around in cyberspace, telling me what they think of my actions, but not ok for me to do the same to others in real life? Do you somehow feel it is safer to try to "correct" me from the safety of your computer den? There doesn't seem to be much other difference. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 16:06:25 2004 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 15:56:44 -0500 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) At 01:22 PM 2/23/04 -0500, Carl Schelin wrote: >On Mon, 2004-02-23 at 13:09, Mike Bartman wrote: >> They put a *bunch* down in Montgomery County this year. > >Maybe I'm not seeing it, but I think we use more sand than salt, and >maybe some of that non-salt ice melter. Someone else here may know for >sure. When I say "salt" I mean the ice melter stuff, not NaCl in particular. It turned the roads white up here until the recent rain and snow melting washed it off. >I want to get the GSXR out for a wash. I've ridden it a few times over >the past month so it hasn't been out much. Weirldy I'm getting an oil >drizzle from the filler cap but the level seems to stay about the same. Have you scraped the paint off to see if it's really a GSXR under there? I've been told by Rice Riders that only Harleys leak oil.... :^) [I may need to check my bike for Saki fumes or something...it says "Harley-Davidon on it, but there's not a drop of oil leaking from it...] -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 16:15:38 2004 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 16:15:34 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) You brought it up on a public discussion list. If you didn't want to talk about it, you should have kept it private. Anyway, the conversation was petering out on its own. The McCoy thread was more entertaining (Sept of 1998) http://www.dccycles.com/arch/98/09/sep01059 At 04:06 PM 2/23/2004, Mike Bartman wrote: >Why is it that some people here think it's ok to "follow me" around in >cyberspace, telling me what they think of my actions, but not ok for me to >do the same to others in real life? ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 16:16:58 2004 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 16:16:50 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: cvkgpena@XXXXXX Reply-To: cvkgpena@XXXXXX To: rich hall , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: GP Armor Rich, GP armor is "better" in that it is hard plastic over the foam. Kind of like the difference between just having foam armor in the back of your jacket vs. wearing a race back protector. I don't know that GP armor absorbs impact any better than regular foam (especially if both are CE approved), but the GP armor is more likely to better protect against a hard object puncturing the armor and probably a little more abrasion resistant. Certainly not a bad investment. Just check the dimensions of your armor pockets first. Armor sizes are not standardized. You may not be able to fit the GP armor into your pockets. Cheers, Chuck -----Original Message----- From: rich hall Sent: Feb 23, 2004 1:15 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: GP Armor Bought a new jacket this weekend w/ dual density foam armor. Would it be worth it to put in GP armor? New enough has elbow & shoulder for $34 before shipping. Thanks, Rich '02 SVS _________________________________________________________________ Get fast, reliable access with MSN 9 Dial-up. Click here for Special Offer! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 16:21:31 2004 From: "Perry Coleman" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Snowshow rally in July Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 16:10:09 -0500 Has anyone been to the MC rally at Snowshoe, WV? See: http://www.snowshoefreedomfest.com/ It is like the 3rd week in July. A few years ago, my wife and I were working our way back up through WV, from Kentucky, on the ending Sunday and saw LOTS of bikes heading away. It looked like a lot of H-D, but not 100%. We cruised into Snowshoe early Monday and it was all but deserted, by then. Anyway, we were considering heading out that way this year and wondered if anyone had any experience with the rally. Perry _________________________________________________________________ Dream of owning a home? Find out how in the First-time Home Buying Guide. http://special.msn.com/home/firsthome.armx From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 16:38:02 2004 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 16:38:02 -0500 To: Troutman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) I don't mind talking about it at all. I'm just puzzled by those few in the conversation who are berating me for calling someone on their behavior, as if doing so is wrong in some strange way. Seems kind of hypocritical of them to be calling me on mine in such a case. [I'm not referring to those who had concerns about the method I used or whatever, only those who've been critical of the very idea] -- Mike B. At 04:15 PM 2/23/04 -0500, Troutman wrote: >You brought it up on a public discussion list. If you didn't want to talk >about it, you >should have kept it private. Anyway, the conversation was petering out on >its own. > >The McCoy thread was more entertaining (Sept of 1998) >http://www.dccycles.com/arch/98/09/sep01059 > >At 04:06 PM 2/23/2004, Mike Bartman wrote: >>Why is it that some people here think it's ok to "follow me" around in >>cyberspace, telling me what they think of my actions, but not ok for me to >>do the same to others in real life? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 16:43:54 2004 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 13:43:46 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) To: Mike Bartman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 11:38 AM 2/23/04 -0800, Tom Gimer wrote: > >i don't have time to read all the posts on this subject, > >but there would seem to be a viable assault case against > >mr. bartman (if pursued) and *maybe* grounds for a > >negligent driving citation against the driver. > > I really doubt it. Trying to speak with someone in > public is hardly > "assault" by any rational definition. Of course, the law > hasn't been > rational for a very long time, what with charging cars > with various > offenses and whatnot. check the definition of assault in the jurisdiction in which this occurred. how long did you follow her? > >mike b., i thought you were 6'4" and 250+ lbs.? do you > > I haven't been that short, or that light, in a while now. all the more reason why the woman may have been "reasonably" in fear for her safety.... > >really think following/scaring young ladies is > reasonable > >given the facts of this situation? your own story > >indicates she was careless, nothing more. > > And all I did was follow until I could safely tell her > what I thought of > her carelessness, in hopes that maybe she'd be less > careless next time. If > she was scared, it was only out of guilt. your comments indicated that she was shaking. > Why is it that some people here think it's ok to "follow > me" around in > cyberspace, telling me what they think of my actions, but > not ok for me to > do the same to others in real life? Do you somehow feel > it is safer to try > to "correct" me from the safety of your computer den? > There doesn't seem > to be much other difference. ? let's stick to teh topic at hand, shall we? either you followed and intimidated the woman or you didn't. from the sound of your post, you did. you get to learn from your own mistake this time. -- tg __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 17:06:54 2004 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 17:06:43 -0500 Few? Seems like the majority. >From: Mike Bartman >To: Troutman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) >Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 16:38:02 -0500 > >I don't mind talking about it at all. I'm just puzzled by those few in the >conversation who are berating me for calling someone on their behavior, as >if doing so is wrong in some strange way. Seems kind of hypocritical of >them to be calling me on mine in such a case. >[I'm not referring to those who had concerns about the method I used or >whatever, only those who've been critical of the very ide _________________________________________________________________ Find and compare great deals on Broadband access at the MSN High-Speed Marketplace. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200360ave/direct/01/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 17:27:27 2004 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 17:44:17 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) On Mon, 23 Feb 2004, Mike Bartman wrote: > Why is it that some people here think it's ok to "follow me" around in > cyberspace, telling me what they think of my actions, but not ok for me to > do the same to others in real life? Do you somehow feel it is safer to try > to "correct" me from the safety of your computer den? There doesn't seem > to be much other difference. Uhm, that's a joke right? You posted it in on a discussion list to which you subscribed. There is a huge difference. -- Wayne From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 17:33:52 2004 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 17:33:28 -0500 To: Wayne Edelen , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) At 05:44 PM 2/23/04 -0500, Wayne Edelen wrote: >On Mon, 23 Feb 2004, Mike Bartman wrote: > >> Why is it that some people here think it's ok to "follow me" around in >> cyberspace, telling me what they think of my actions, but not ok for me to >> do the same to others in real life? Do you somehow feel it is safer to try >> to "correct" me from the safety of your computer den? There doesn't seem >> to be much other difference. > >Uhm, that's a joke right? You posted it in on a discussion list to which >you subscribed. There is a huge difference. The hypocrisy comes from the "it's not proper to correct other people" crowd, not the "don't scare women", "following people can be dangerous", "why bother" bunches. That's why I added the comment at the end about who I was referring to. There's no difference. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 17:35:13 2004 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 17:30:13 -0500 To: Tom Gimer , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) At 01:43 PM 2/23/04 -0800, Tom Gimer wrote: >--- Mike Bartman wrote: >> I really doubt it. Trying to speak with someone in >> public is hardly >> "assault" by any rational definition. Of course, the law >> hasn't been >> rational for a very long time, what with charging cars >> with various >> offenses and whatnot. > >check the definition of assault in the jurisdiction in >which this occurred. how long did you follow her? Couple of miles, and four turns (if you count turning into the parking lot). Two of the turns were an alternate way to get where I was going anyway. I hadn't planned to go that way initially, but it made little difference. >> >mike b., i thought you were 6'4" and 250+ lbs.? do you >> >> I haven't been that short, or that light, in a while now. > >all the more reason why the woman may have been >"reasonably" in fear for her safety.... She was highly unlikely to be able to see how tall I was while I was sitting on the bike, and unless she had circus training, guessing my weight is unlikely too. >> >really think following/scaring young ladies is >> reasonable >> >given the facts of this situation? your own story >> >indicates she was careless, nothing more. >> >> And all I did was follow until I could safely tell her >> what I thought of >> her carelessness, in hopes that maybe she'd be less >> careless next time. If >> she was scared, it was only out of guilt. > >your comments indicated that she was shaking. I said there was a slight quiver in her voice. I'm sure she was nervous, but when you've almost run over someone, you probably have cause to worry about how they are going to take it. That situation is one she created, not me. I did nothing out of the ordinary to increase her anxiety...other than speak to her about it. Tell me, if your dog pees on my bike, I see it, and you see me seeing it, and I walk over to ask you to clean it up, is that assault? How would that situation be different, if it is? (I'm assuming here that I'm bigger than you...that you aren't some 600 lb fullback that runs on treads or something). Have we deteriorated to the point where the only way people can interact without threat of arrest is by hiring a lawyer? Or posting semi-anonymously on mailing lists? If so, then it's high time we took Shakespeare out of context and shot all you guys and replace that system with something reasonable. >let's stick to teh topic at hand, shall we? either you >followed and intimidated the woman or you didn't. I didn't. I followed a truck until it was safe to speak with the driver. I had no idea who that driver was until we were parked next to each other. I waited, spoke, listened, spoke again, and left. That's it. If that's assault, just because she was nervous, then we've got cops assaulting people all over the place...not to mention teachers assaulting their students, parents assaulting their kids, bosses assaulting their workers...people get nervous all the time when they've screwed up and someone is calling them on it. That doesn't make speaking to them a crime. The notion is absurd, but then, the law is an ass, so perhaps you are correct. It would be very sad if you were though. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 17:46:41 2004 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 17:42:14 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) On Mon, 23 Feb 2004, Mike Bartman wrote: > I think it's lack of driver training, laziness/carelessness, and > poorly-adjusted mirrors. They don't know how to set the mirrors to see > what they need to see, they don't know that's the case, and they don't > bother to turn their heads to look either. Ergo, they "didn't see you", > and it doesn't matter what you are on or in. I think it's that nobody gives a shit about anyone but themselves. Again coming home from the gym this evening - the off ramp is 2 left turn lanes. I'm in the far left in my truck, there is a woman driving an Expedition (smaller vehicle in this case) on my right. As we make the left, she just drives into my lane. like the 2 lanes are just one. She continues to drive down the center of the 2 lanes until they merge into 1, about 1/4 mile down the road. I was paying attention and was able to brake and get out of her way, but a toot on the horn was met with a NY salute, as if I was the one that was doing something wrong. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 18:31:58 2004 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 18:31:50 -0500 You shoulda followed her home. >From: Wayne Edelen >To: >Subject: Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) >Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 17:42:14 -0500 (EST) > >Again coming home from the gym this evening - the off ramp is 2 left turn >lanes. I'm in the far left in my truck, there is a woman driving an >Expedition (smaller vehicle in this case) on my right. As we make the >left, she just drives into my lane. like the 2 lanes are just one. She >continues to drive down the center of the 2 lanes until they merge into 1, >about 1/4 mile down the road. I was paying attention and was able to >brake and get out of her way, but a toot on the horn was met with a NY >salute, as if I was the one that was doing something wrong. _________________________________________________________________ Get fast, reliable access with MSN 9 Dial-up. Click here for Special Offer! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 19:00:17 2004 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 19:00:05 -0500 To: Wayne Edelen , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) At 05:42 PM 2/23/04 -0500, Wayne Edelen wrote: >Again coming home from the gym this evening - the off ramp is 2 left turn >lanes. I'm in the far left in my truck, there is a woman driving an >Expedition (smaller vehicle in this case) on my right. As we make the >left, she just drives into my lane. like the 2 lanes are just one. She >continues to drive down the center of the 2 lanes until they merge into 1, >about 1/4 mile down the road. I was paying attention and was able to >brake and get out of her way, but a toot on the horn was met with a NY >salute, as if I was the one that was doing something wrong. Maybe you should have followed her and explained her error at the first safe opportunity? (but if you do that sometime, don't mention it here! :^) Or better, encourage all the psychotic maniacs you meet to take that exit at around that time every day? -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 19:37:52 2004 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 19:37:27 -0500 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79b2b3f0645d4239d64887f7d3b7aad0e5350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c > > The hypocrisy comes from the "it's not proper to correct other people" > crowd, not the "don't scare women", "following people can be dangerous", > "why bother" bunches. That's why I added the comment at the end about who > I was referring to. There's no difference. > [Dave] If you wouldn't behave the same way in a shopping line at Home De(s)pot, you probably ought not behave that way behind the wheel of a cage. If someone with several items comes up to me in line and asks me if they can cut in, or better yet just does it, they'll be rebuffed, and be standing behind me. Someone tried this at a hardware store once, at which point I ordered him to the back of the line. There were several people in front of and behind me. He conceded the point - and waited for me outside after putting his stuff back. I will comment only that no blows were exchanged, and I did not retreat. He seemed to feel as if we all "owed" him to let him to the front of the line to purchase his several items; no doubt with an out of state check and only 1 form of non state ID... Of course, perhaps had he even remotely attempted just a tiny bit of polite conduct, I'd have let him by just like mom and dad told me. But this conduct goes on all the time in traffic thanks to that artificial feeling of invulnerability provided by a cage. people ride up ending lanes to the last possible yards, clamp the binders, throw the signal on after cutting over. All of them seem to cut back at the last second too... Probably because they care more for the finish on their uber-utes than I do on either of my trucks. OTOH, I'm happy to drop some speed and put the binders on for somebody with a turn signal on with clearly displayed intentions. At least I can check the mirrors to see if I'll be plowed 1st as opposed to the former situation... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 19:41:25 2004 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 16:41:23 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Fwd: RE: [co-hsta] Re: Definition Please To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 05:22 AM 2/23/04 -0800, Carl Schelin wrote: > > The poser things seems reasonable as to items, but the points allocated > need work. > Eh, spur of the moment thoughts. I tried to be balanced and thoughtful of others perceptions of our choices. Certainly someone sensitive to trailering (like the recent Hot Bikes/American Iron/etc. editorial) would have a problem with any points given to that. The editor commented that someone trailered his bike to "The Ride Home" because of a business requirement. Whatever. I think I was leaning towards someone our age or older who's been on the side of the road with a bandana (not a fricking mass produced, custom fit 'do rag') with whatever tools he had handy pulling the fouled plugs on his pan or knuckle. But hey, what do I know? I've got positive points in both catagories. > > -- Mike B. > Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 19:41:34 2004 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 19:41:18 -0500 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec7934b0925d36a76c37e1493094a086607c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c > I think it's that nobody gives a shit about anyone but themselves. > > Again coming home from the gym this evening - the off ramp is 2 left turn > lanes. I'm in the far left in my truck, there is a woman driving an > Expedition (smaller vehicle in this case) on my right. As we make the > left, she just drives into my lane. like the 2 lanes are just one. She > continues to drive down the center of the 2 lanes until they merge into 1, > about 1/4 mile down the road. I was paying attention and was able to > brake and get out of her way, but a toot on the horn was met with a NY > salute, as if I was the one that was doing something wrong. [Dave] She caught you napping, Wayne. You left room for doubt about who should be in front and in what lane position, so she decided you should be behind her. That's perfectly ok sometimes - if they just have to throw the block for you, why not let them. But when you leave too much room for a misunderstanding, often the other driver does something you'd rather they not do. Use the pedal on the right. ;-) Had you applied more right pedal up front (an ounce of prevention) you wouldn't have needed that brake to get out of her way ( ton of cure ). Dave From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 19:43:46 2004 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 16:43:43 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: RE: Definition Please To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- rich hall wrote: > Best one I've heard is a squid swims fast in a straight line, slow in > when > it's turning. > Still makes me a squid. I like driving fast and am just getting better at turns. Still need to work on the wheelies on 95 at 130mph though. Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 20:01:25 2004 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 17:01:22 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Handlebar Controls To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Hey, Another part hunt. I'm looking for handlebar controls for a 1" handlebar. I've been poking around and also thought of calling the dealer to get a set of cast-offs from when someone upgrades to chrome (I haven't actually _called_ yet; hazards of a selective memory). Thanks for checking your bins. Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 20:23:46 2004 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 20:21:50 -0500 To: "Dave Yates" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) At 07:37 PM 2/23/04 -0500, Dave Yates wrote: >[Dave] If you wouldn't behave the same way in a shopping line at Home >De(s)pot, you probably >ought not behave that way behind the wheel of a cage. I agree. >If someone with several items comes up to >me in line and asks me if they can cut in, or better yet just does it, >they'll be rebuffed, and be standing behind me. If they ask, I may very well let them. It depends on the situation. If I've got a lot, and they only have one or two things, and I'm alone in line, I'll probably let them go first. I do that at the grocery store fairly often. If there are people behind me, they need to get an ok from each person...they aren't just getting in front of me in that case, and the rest deserve a say as well. If everyone agrees, no problem. If they don't ask, they are going to get crowded back out of line in a hurry...if just pointing out their social gaffe doesn't do it. Sometimes the lines aren't all that clear and it is possible to make a mistake, so starting with a helpful, "The end of the line is back there..." seems like a good approach to me, and it generally works. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 20:35:36 2004 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 17:35:31 -0800 Subject: Barton et al vs. Wilson From: Bob McKeithen To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Once again, as has been the case so many times before, Paul Wilson proves that he may be the most sane person on this list. Bob From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 20:42:05 2004 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 20:40:48 -0500 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Fwd: RE: [co-hsta] Re: Definition Please At 04:41 PM 2/23/04 -0800, Carl Schelin wrote: > >--- Mike Bartman wrote: >> At 05:22 AM 2/23/04 -0800, Carl Schelin wrote: >> >> The poser things seems reasonable as to items, but the points allocated >> need work. > >Eh, spur of the moment thoughts. I tried to be balanced and thoughtful of >others perceptions of our choices. No problem, as I said, it looks like a very good start. You certainly got some good factors in there. I just think it needs a little tuning so that you don't end up with folks who are anything but "posers" coming out with that sort of rating due to a couple of overly weighted factors, that's all. It's going to be a matter of opinion in the gray areas anyway. Are you going to set it up as a "web quiz" somewhere? Let people check the little boxes and get a score automagically at the end? >I think I was leaning towards someone our age or older who's been on the >side of the road with a bandana (not a fricking mass produced, custom fit >'do rag') with whatever tools he had handy pulling the fouled plugs on his >pan or knuckle. That would certainly not be a gray area! >But hey, what do I know? I've got positive points in both catagories. Me too. But I'm probably farther down the "poser" scale than you are at the moment. It takes some time I think, and many of the problems that used to strand guys by the side of the road have been minimized by the march of technology (while new items that can't be fixed by the side of the road have taken their place...). At least I haven't trailered the bike anywhere yet. :^) -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 21:09:08 2004 From: "Mobacc" To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: RE: Yesterday's riding Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 21:03:42 -0500 From: Various Listers. re: cage lanechange, reprimanding; cig hazard needing vehicle correction; etc. *****Anybody know if loudspeakers on bikes are illegal (ala lawcars)? That solution for more gentle notice of transgression has crossed my mind giga times. And in these days, a set of buttons activating pre-recordeds, "Hey there, Virginia, you just ran over me!" could make the right mark. A mic would add. Eons ago a high-school friend did this to his tricked Studebaker. Only a few personal encounters resulted. Bill S. / DC '99 VN750 > Yes, yes. Turn me lingual with speakers. Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 22:03:06 2004 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 22:02:50 -0500 From: Dale Horstman To: Sean Steele CC: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Robbing me of my faith in humanity... Sean Steele wrote: > And I am, now, a confirmed rat bike owner ;-) Welcome to the club! :) Sorry about the bike, though. Horkster -- Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark) Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX '98 Concours - BugSlayer Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth '99 Concours - Grape Nehi CM #001 NRA IBA COG '82 GS850G - Neat old bike The Mason Dixon 20-20 Endurance Rally: The Games People Play Come join us in 2004: http://www.masondixon20-20.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 22:11:06 2004 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 22:10:55 -0500 From: Dale Horstman To: Bob McKeithen CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Barton et al vs. Wilson Bob McKeithen wrote: > > Once again, as has been the case so many times before, Paul Wilson > proves that he may be the most sane person on this list. Yeah, like *that* is any real accomplishment around here. :) Horkster -- Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark) Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX '98 Concours - BugSlayer Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth '99 Concours - Grape Nehi CM #001 NRA IBA COG '82 GS850G - Neat old bike The Mason Dixon 20-20 Endurance Rally: The Games People Play Come join us in 2004: http://www.masondixon20-20.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 23:31:04 2004 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 20:30:44 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) To: Mike Bartman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 01:43 PM 2/23/04 -0800, Tom Gimer wrote: > >--- Mike Bartman wrote: > > >> I really doubt it. Trying to speak with someone in > >> public is hardly > >> "assault" by any rational definition. Of course, the > law > >> hasn't been > >> rational for a very long time, what with charging cars > >> with various > >> offenses and whatnot. > > > >check the definition of assault in the jurisdiction in > >which this occurred. how long did you follow her? > > Couple of miles, and four turns (if you count turning > into the parking > lot). Two of the turns were an alternate way to get > where I was going > anyway. I hadn't planned to go that way initially, but > it made little > difference. nothing like a little harassment following a forgotten head-check! you act like this was your first blind spot incident. was it? you should expect this shit riding a motorcycle. > >> >mike b., i thought you were 6'4" and 250+ lbs.? do > you > >> > >> I haven't been that short, or that light, in a while > now. > > > >all the more reason why the woman may have been > >"reasonably" in fear for her safety.... > > She was highly unlikely to be able to see how tall I was > while I was > sitting on the bike, and unless she had circus training, > guessing my weight > is unlikely too. a "couple of miles" in my rearview mirror and i can guess your height and weight. > >> >really think following/scaring young ladies is > >> reasonable > >> >given the facts of this situation? your own story > >> >indicates she was careless, nothing more. > >> > >> And all I did was follow until I could safely tell her > >> what I thought of > >> her carelessness, in hopes that maybe she'd be less > >> careless next time. If > >> she was scared, it was only out of guilt. > > > >your comments indicated that she was shaking. > > I said there was a slight quiver in her voice. I'm sure > she was nervous, > but when you've almost run over someone, you probably > have cause to worry > about how they are going to take it. yes, especially if they follow you home. > That situation is > one she created, > not me. you're right, she should have driven to the police station, not home. > I did nothing out of the ordinary to increase > her anxiety...other > than speak to her about it. > > Tell me, if your dog pees on my bike, I see it, and you > see me seeing it, > and I walk over to ask you to clean it up, is that > assault? How would that > situation be different, if it is? (I'm assuming here > that I'm bigger than > you...that you aren't some 600 lb fullback that runs on > treads or something). do you really want me to answer this? one involves a mistake -- a negligent act. the other involves a dog pissing on a motorcycle. > Have we deteriorated to the point where the only way > people can interact > without threat of arrest is by hiring a lawyer? Or > posting > semi-anonymously on mailing lists? If so, then it's high > time we took > Shakespeare out of context and shot all you guys and > replace that system > with something reasonable. blame the lawyers again..... not the asshole who's following around women and making them quiver. > >let's stick to teh topic at hand, shall we? either you > >followed and intimidated the woman or you didn't. > > I didn't. > > I followed a truck until it was safe to speak with the > driver. I had no > idea who that driver was until we were parked next to > each other. I > waited, spoke, listened, spoke again, and left. That's > it. > > If that's assault, just because she was nervous, then > we've got cops > assaulting people all over the place...not to mention > teachers assaulting > their students, parents assaulting their kids, bosses > assaulting their > workers...people get nervous all the time when they've > screwed up and > someone is calling them on it. That doesn't make > speaking to them a crime. > > The notion is absurd, but then, the law is an ass, so > perhaps you are > correct. It would be very sad if you were though. did you intend to do an act that put another in reasonable fear of immediate bodily injury? only you know. actually, i don't think you'd be convicted of assault based upon the circumstances. however, do this enough and you will likely need to provide a defense. look elsewhere for a referral. -- tg __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Feb 23 23:56:41 2004 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Loudspeakers (was: Yesterday's riding) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 23:56:33 -0500 They are on cars in VA, but damn fun, mighta had one in college. >From: "Mobacc" >To: "DC-Cycles" >Subject: RE: Yesterday's riding Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: >Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) >Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 21:03:42 -0500 > >*****Anybody know if loudspeakers on bikes are illegal (ala lawcars)? That >solution for more gentle notice of transgression has crossed my mind giga >times. And in these days, a set of buttons activating pre-recordeds, "Hey >there, Virginia, you just ran over me!" could make the right mark. A mic >would add. >Eons ago a high-school friend did this to his tricked Studebaker. Only a >few personal encounters resulted. _________________________________________________________________ Stay informed on Election 2004 and the race to Super Tuesday. http://special.msn.com/msn/election2004.armx From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 00:00:30 2004 From: Michael Lynch To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX '" Subject: RE: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 00:02:22 -0500 JeezusMary-n-Joseph, finally, Gimer nailed the meat of the issue with: >nothing like a little harassment following a forgotten >head-check! you act like this was your first blind spot >incident. was it? you should expect this shit riding a >motorcycle. If you think you'll get away with riding a motorcycle in Outta-My-Way-America without close encounters, you're in la-la land. To any rider with any miles under his/her belt, this is an obvious situation. One incident (the first, clearly), and he's in an uproar. WTF? This shit happens to me 3 times a week, minimum. You ride, you deal. Get over it, jeez. Welcome to the real world. Mike 98 XR400 96 VFR 76 CB400F From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 00:42:09 2004 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 00:17:09 -0500 To: "Mobacc" , "DC-Cycles" From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: Yesterday's riding Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) At 09:03 PM 2/23/04 -0500, Mobacc wrote: >*****Anybody know if loudspeakers on bikes are illegal (ala lawcars)? I've never heard of any restrictions on loudspeakers, other than the usual noise pollution regs in sensitive places, such as around hospitals or whatever. Might be worth asking someone who knows for sure though. My opinion would be that freedom of speech includes volume...until it starts to interfere with the rights of others. Don't go doing 160 decibel two-wheeled karioke at 3am in a quiet neighborhood for instance. >times. And in these days, a set of buttons activating pre-recordeds, "Hey >there, Virginia, you just ran over me!" could make the right mark. Yeah, until some hairy trucker doesn't take kindly to being called "Virginia". :^) >Eons ago a high-school friend did this to his tricked Studebaker. Only a >few personal encounters resulted. A CB I had in my old '67 VW bug had a PA jack on it. I hooked in a speaker sometimes and had a friend hold it out the window. Helped with making our way through crowds at the beach sometimes. Tourists are so clueless sometimes. [Actually had one stop me on a sunny July day at 4pm in Virginia Beach, on Pacific Avenue, and ask how to get to the ocean. If you've never been there, Pacific is one block from the beach, and runs parallel to it. A turn to the east anywhere will get you to Atlantic, which is as close as you can get by car. I told him to go east a block and he'd be there. Then he wanted to know which way east was. Did I mention it was 4pm on a sunny July day? Sheesh!] -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 00:42:09 2004 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 00:41:09 -0500 To: Tom Gimer , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) At 08:30 PM 2/23/04 -0800, Tom Gimer wrote: >nothing like a little harassment following a forgotten >head-check! you act like this was your first blind spot >incident. was it? you should expect this shit riding a >motorcycle. No, it was the second. The first was about half a mile earlier, though that one was more of a "cut off" than a "change lanes into". I was expecting it, that's why I didn't get run over. Doesn't make it any less annoying or careless and only slightly less dangerous. >> Tell me, if your dog pees on my bike, I see it, and you >> see me seeing it, >> and I walk over to ask you to clean it up, is that >> assault? How would that >> situation be different, if it is? (I'm assuming here >> that I'm bigger than >> you...that you aren't some 600 lb fullback that runs on >> treads or something). > >do you really want me to answer this? one involves a >mistake -- a negligent act. the other involves a dog >pissing on a motorcycle. Your letting it is a negligent act on your part. You are supposed to keep proper control of your dog when it's out in public, and not let it damage other people or their property. Same with driving a truck. In any case, my being annoyed at you, and approaching you to speak with you is the same situation. >> Have we deteriorated to the point where the only way >> people can interact >> without threat of arrest is by hiring a lawyer? Or >> posting >> semi-anonymously on mailing lists? If so, then it's high >> time we took >> Shakespeare out of context and shot all you guys and >> replace that system >> with something reasonable. > >blame the lawyers again..... not the asshole who's >following around women and making them quiver. Yep! Professional assholes are much more dangerous to public safety and happiness. Besides, I'm sure you've intimidated your share of women in court and had more than one of them quivering with adrenaline. How many times you been charged with assault for that? >did you intend to do an act that put another in reasonable >fear of immediate bodily injury? only you know. Nope. In fact I did several things to avoid that impression. I didn't do anything recklessly on the road (no tailgating, racing up and falling back, reving the motor, or whatever). I didn't get off the bike. I didn't take a hand off the controls except to open my face shield, then I put it back on the throttle. I made no threats. I used no profanity. I didn't even raise my voice louder than needed to be heard outside of my fullface helmet. Reasonable fear of immediate bodily injury would come from things like shouting, arm waving, banging on her truck before she got out, brandishing weapons, and generally acting like someone over the edge. That's the sort of thing *I'd* call "intimidating", "threatening" or "assault". Nothing I did would have attracted the notice of a cop sitting a couple of spaces away in the same lot...with his windows down. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 08:07:11 2004 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 05:07:03 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) To: Mike Bartman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 08:30 PM 2/23/04 -0800, Tom Gimer wrote: > > >nothing like a little harassment following a forgotten > >head-check! you act like this was your first blind spot > >incident. was it? you should expect this shit riding a > >motorcycle. > > No, it was the second. The first was about half a mile > earlier, though > that one was more of a "cut off" than a "change lanes > into". well, that just about clears everything up. > I was expecting it, that's why I didn't get run over. > Doesn't make it any > less annoying or careless and only slightly less > dangerous. > > >> Tell me, if your dog pees on my bike, I see it, and > you > >> see me seeing it, > >> and I walk over to ask you to clean it up, is that > >> assault? How would that > >> situation be different, if it is? (I'm assuming here > >> that I'm bigger than > >> you...that you aren't some 600 lb fullback that runs > on > >> treads or something). > > > >do you really want me to answer this? one involves a > >mistake -- a negligent act. the other involves a dog > >pissing on a motorcycle. > > Your letting it is a negligent act on your part. You are > supposed to keep > proper control of your dog when it's out in public, and > not let it damage > other people or their property. Same with driving a > truck. In any case, > my being annoyed at you, and approaching you to speak > with you is the same > situation. hardly. mike, you're the only one who sees a parallel between these two situations. give it up. > >> Have we deteriorated to the point where the only way > >> people can interact > >> without threat of arrest is by hiring a lawyer? Or > >> posting > >> semi-anonymously on mailing lists? If so, then it's > high > >> time we took > >> Shakespeare out of context and shot all you guys and > >> replace that system > >> with something reasonable. > > > >blame the lawyers again..... not the asshole who's > >following around women and making them quiver. > > Yep! Professional assholes are much more dangerous to > public safety and > happiness. Besides, I'm sure you've intimidated your > share of women in > court and had more than one of them quivering with > adrenaline. How many > times you been charged with assault for that? my practice is 95% out of court; and i've done no such thing when in court. i've certainly never followed anybody home to finish my closing argument! > >did you intend to do an act that put another in > reasonable > >fear of immediate bodily injury? only you know. > > Nope. In fact I did several things to avoid that > impression. I didn't do > anything recklessly on the road (no tailgating, racing up > and falling back, > reving the motor, or whatever). I didn't get off the > bike. I didn't take > a hand off the controls except to open my face shield, > then I put it back > on the throttle. I made no threats. I used no > profanity. I didn't even > raise my voice louder than needed to be heard outside of > my fullface helmet. ah, but you missed the point. you DID do an intentional act -- you followed a young lady home following a traffic incident. the reasonableness of her apprehension, if any, of immediate physical injury would be for the jury to decide. > Reasonable fear of immediate bodily injury would come > from things like > shouting, arm waving, banging on her truck before she got > out, brandishing > weapons, and generally acting like someone over the edge. > That's the sort > of thing *I'd* call "intimidating", "threatening" or > "assault". Nothing I > did would have attracted the notice of a cop sitting a > couple of spaces > away in the same lot...with his windows down. like i said, make a habit of this and i'll see you on the evening news.... -- tg __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 08:11:18 2004 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: visors Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 08:11:10 -0500 Do the dark smoke visors scratch up like the mirrored visors? I love the look of the silver mirror on the silver helmet, but I go through one a yr. _________________________________________________________________ Watch high-quality video with fast playback at MSN Video. Free! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200365ave/direct/01/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 08:11:19 2004 Subject: Enough! Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 24 Feb 2004 08:07:52 -0500 Much as I hate to butt in but can you guys take the rest of this off list? I know, I know. I can filter it but there are other interesting conversations on this thread and, from time to time, you guys have interesting things to say. Thanks, Carl On Tue, 2004-02-24 at 08:07, Tom Gimer wrote: > --- Mike Bartman wrote: > > At 08:30 PM 2/23/04 -0800, Tom Gimer wrote: > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 09:06:48 2004 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 06:06:40 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Enough! Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX for all the posts we endure about rita this and rita that, you're nixxing a moto-related thread? wtf? --- Carl Schelin wrote: > Much as I hate to butt in but can you guys take the rest > of this off > list? > > I know, I know. I can filter it but there are other > interesting > conversations on this thread and, from time to time, you > guys have > interesting things to say. > > Thanks, > > Carl > > On Tue, 2004-02-24 at 08:07, Tom Gimer wrote: > > --- Mike Bartman wrote: > > > At 08:30 PM 2/23/04 -0800, Tom Gimer wrote: > > > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 09:16:04 2004 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 09:15:53 -0500 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Enough! Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Gimer wonders: >for all the posts we endure about rita this and rita that, >you're nixxing a moto-related thread? wtf? [Dave] Rita This and Rita That have socially redeaming values, this thread does not. To recap: * Md driver cut off Bartman (anybody surprised?) * Bartman followed and scolded petite woman driver who... * probably perceives and "feels" rather than compartmentalizes... * and he better not do to any of our wimmen-folk... * which is blatantly sexist etc... These threads are to DCC what wrecks are to Nascar - we can't help but watch the carnage. Obviously, Bartman didn't use his rear brake, or he'd have been able to stop in plenty of time/space as opposed to those not skilled enough to use the rear brake without fatal consequences... > > > > >--- Carl Schelin wrote: >> Much as I hate to butt in but can you guys take the rest >> of this off >> list? >> >> I know, I know. I can filter it but there are other >> interesting >> conversations on this thread and, from time to time, you >> guys have >> interesting things to say. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Carl >> >> On Tue, 2004-02-24 at 08:07, Tom Gimer wrote: >> > --- Mike Bartman wrote: >> > > At 08:30 PM 2/23/04 -0800, Tom Gimer wrote: >> > > >> >> > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. >http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools > Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 09:21:15 2004 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 09:20:58 -0500 From: Brian Roach To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Robbing me of my faith in humanity... Paul Wilson wrote: > Sorry to hear that. What we need are marauding bands of Bike Avengers, > a la the Masked Bartman. We lie in wait for these bike-knocking-over > cager excrescences to emerge from their hidey holes, we follow them > home and beat the crap out of them. That'll teach 'em. A couple years ago there was a group of 4 guys in the UK that had this idea, for bike thieves. There was a video (or a website with video? Can't remember) showing where they would wait in a van in areas where bikes were often stolen, and beat the hell out of the thieves when they tried to steal the bikes. - Roach From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 09:24:17 2004 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 09:41:28 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Enough! Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) On Tue, 24 Feb 2004, Dave Yates wrote: > Obviously, Bartman didn't use his rear brake, or he'd have > been able to stop in plenty of time/space as opposed to those > not skilled enough to use the rear brake without fatal > consequences... C'mon Dave, next thing you'll be telling us is that it was the winter air in his tires. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 09:25:05 2004 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 09:42:16 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Robbing me of my faith in humanity... On Tue, 24 Feb 2004, Brian Roach wrote: > A couple years ago there was a group of 4 guys in the UK that had this > idea, for bike thieves. There was a video (or a website with video? > Can't remember) showing where they would wait in a van in areas where > bikes were often stolen, and beat the hell out of the thieves when they > tried to steal the bikes. I saw that, it was hilarious. IIRC it was a website w/video. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 09:35:36 2004 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 09:35:32 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: visors : RF1000 and 40k Related question : Last year I broke down and picked up a new Shoei RF-900 even though my RF-800 was fine (but five years old and now on a shelf just in case my new one gets cracked). Anyway - the shields are interchangeable. Now I see Shoei has yet another new model: the RF-1000. Anyone have one and know if those shields work with earlier models? http://www.shoei-helmets.com/ doesn't really say. Unrelated note : The VFR is about to flip 40,000 miles. I'm thinking about throwing it a surprise party. Gifts to include a new chain and sprocket set, some new shoes and possibly a transfusion. As I was telling Bartman yesterday, the VFR hasn't seen a hose since late last summer, and I can barely read the license plate through the mud. I think that may be a tactical advantage. At 08:11 AM 2/24/2004, rich hall wrote: >Do the dark smoke visors scratch up like the mirrored visors? >I love the look of the silver mirror on the silver helmet, but I go >through one a yr. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 09:42:21 2004 From: "Sean Steele" To: "DC Cycles" Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 09:41:32 -0500 Subject: Bike cleaner X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information Any suggestions for an all-over bike detergent/cleaner that I can spray on, use a brush, and hose off? Extra points for large container size. Extra extra points for relatively inexpensive. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 09:42:54 2004 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 09:42:24 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Enough! Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) -----Original Message----- From: Dave Yates To recap: * Md driver cut off Bartman (anybody surprised?) * Bartman followed and scolded petite woman driver who... * probably perceives and "feels" rather than compartmentalizes... * and he better not do to any of our wimmen-folk... * which is blatantly sexist etc... *At this point, Paul reached for the antacids and swallowed the whole bottle. A couple thoughts (1) When I first start riding I'd get steaming mad every time something like this happened. But, I got over it, since I don't get mad at the rain for being wet, the snow for being slippery or the sun for being bright. It's just the way things are. Drivers don't see us, and they often do stupid, and occasionally malicious things to motorcyclists. Life's too short to dwell on negativity like that. Don't let the road idiots win. Heaven knows there are enough legitimate things to get angry about in this world. Legitimate things you might actually be able to do something about. (2) A blog I frequent displays the following admonition from Oliver Cromwell every time you open the comments screen to chime in. "I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible that you may be mistaken." An entirely appropriate sentiment in this case. Maybe we need something similar for DC-Cycles for posters who dig in their heels and doggedly stick to their rhetorical guns, admitting to no error or even the possibility of error, for dozens of posts. P in DC From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 09:47:18 2004 Subject: RE: Yesterday's riding Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 09:46:30 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Dave Yates" , X-imss-version: 2.0 X-imss-result: Passed X-imss-approveListMatch: *@nextel.com I used to work for a moving company, and have accumulated a lot of "window time," time spent riding in a semi from one job to another. One driver I used to work for regularly had a policy about merging into his lane; if the person had their turn signal on, he'd yield politely. No signal, he'd ignore them. Pretty hard to argue with a tractor-trailer (sucessfully, anyway). Robert -----Original Message----- From: Dave Yates [mailto:Dave@XXXXXX] Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 7:37 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) [Dave] But this conduct goes on all the time in traffic thanks to that artificial feeling of invulnerability provided by a cage. people ride up ending lanes to the last possible yards, clamp the binders, throw the signal on after cutting over. All of them seem to cut back at the last second too... Probably because they care more for the finish on their uber-utes than I do on either of my trucks. OTOH, I'm happy to drop some speed and put the binders on for somebody with a turn signal on with clearly displayed intentions. At least I can check the mirrors to see if I'll be plowed 1st as opposed to the former situation... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 09:50:12 2004 Subject: Re: Enough! From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 24 Feb 2004 09:46:40 -0500 On Tue, 2004-02-24 at 09:06, Tom Gimer wrote: > for all the posts we endure about rita this and rita that, > you're nixxing a moto-related thread? wtf? > It's been rehashed and rehashed, refined and redescribed and now we're at the point where you guys just can't (or won't) agree. I think (and yea, it's my opinion) we passed the point where it's really moto-related content and now it's you and Mike trying to get someone to give up, get in the last word. And as far as Rita, at least she's riding a bike. I can't help it if you have some sort of problem with me relating my wife's riding experiences, either directly or as they relate to my riding. I try not to post non-moto content and expect someone to pipe up with an "Enough!" for me if I do. I hope I take the comment gracefully and in the spirit for which it was sent. Hopefully, as a lawyer (college educated; not some imagined slight), you're smart enough to filter out my messages that have "Rita" in the body of the message. As far as moto content, I rode the Suzuki in today. It rides better in the rain than the Harley and of course it's lots of fun. See you on the roads and drive carefully. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 09:53:45 2004 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 09:53:42 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: Sean Steele , DC Cycles Subject: Re: Bike cleaner For greasy. oily messes - Simple Green For general cleaning/polishing - Pro Honda Cleaner For general washing with bucket and hose - whatever's cheap at Auto-Zone For windshields and other clear bits - Plexus P in DC (approaching time to give the VFR its twice-a-year-whether-it-needs-it-or-not washing) -----Original Message----- From: Sean Steele Sent: Feb 24, 2004 9:41 AM To: DC Cycles Subject: Bike cleaner Any suggestions for an all-over bike detergent/cleaner that I can spray on, use a brush, and hose off? Extra points for large container size. Extra extra points for relatively inexpensive. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 10:04:09 2004 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 10:03:42 -0500 From: Tom To: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Bike cleaner Sean Steele wrote: > Any suggestions for an all-over bike detergent/cleaner that I can > spray on, use a brush, and hose off? Extra points for large container > size. Extra extra points for relatively inexpensive. > Honda's spray cleaner ( black can with red lettering ), is great. It's about $4-$6, and many dealers/people tell me it is S100 with out the cost. I've been using it for 8 years no problems. For referrence: http://www.honda.ca/MotorcycleEng/Accessories/ProHondaFluids/0100-CB66946.htm Tom de '98 VTR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 10:50:19 2004 From: To: "Sean Steele" , "DC Cycles" Subject: Re: Bike cleaner Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 10:50:11 -0500 > > From: "Sean Steele" > Date: 2004/02/24 Tue AM 09:41:32 EST > To: "DC Cycles" > Subject: Bike cleaner > > Any suggestions for an all-over bike detergent/cleaner that I can spray > on, use a brush, and hose off? Extra points for large container size. > Extra extra points for relatively inexpensive. > the S100 spray on bike cleaner is *really* good stuff. Spray on, hose off. Little or no scrubbing. My rear rim was black with brake dust and all I did was spray it on and let it sit for about a minute. A strong jet stream of water and it all came off. Good stuff. -aki From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 11:08:47 2004 From: Michael Lynch To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Yesterday's riding Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 11:10:52 -0500 Heh, reminds me of the time I was rolling up 295 thru DC in my 88 GMC 1 ton truck. I'm in the right lane, traffic in the left lane, an onramp merge lane approaches from the right. A couple cars come up the ramp, but are behind me and the first one merges behind me. The second one in line roars up the lane to get ahead of me but her lane has now ended and she just starts merging right into my side. It's a mighty shiny looking Mercedes she's got there, and this truck has lots of character, and she thinks she's going to intimidate me into slamming on my brakes to avoid her hitting me? This is amusing. So, she comes within millimeters of the side of the truck before she realizes I'm not moving and she has to swerve back (onto the shoulder since she ran out of lane long ago), riding through the misc. crap and car parts left on the side of the road, screaming her head off and flailing around wildly in the driver's seat. :-D LOL, heh, oh, it still brings a tear to my eye. A video of that encounter would have been priceless. Mike 98 XR400 96 VFR 76 CB400F > -----Original Message----- > From: Verde, Robert [SMTP:Robert.Verde@XXXXXX] > Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 9:47 AM > To: Dave Yates; dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: RE: Yesterday's riding > > I used to work for a moving company, and have accumulated a lot of "window > time," time spent riding in a semi from one job to another. One driver I > used to work for regularly had a policy about merging into his lane; if > the person had their turn signal on, he'd yield politely. No signal, he'd > ignore them. Pretty hard to argue with a tractor-trailer (sucessfully, > anyway). > > Robert > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave Yates [mailto:Dave@XXXXXX] > Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 7:37 PM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) > > > [Dave] > > But this conduct goes on all the time in traffic thanks to that > artificial > feeling of invulnerability provided > by a cage. people ride up ending lanes to the last possible yards, clamp > the binders, throw the signal on > after cutting over. All of them seem to cut back at the last second > too... > Probably because they care > more for the finish on their uber-utes than I do on either of my trucks. > OTOH, I'm happy to drop some > speed and put the binders on for somebody with a turn signal on with > clearly > displayed intentions. At least > I can check the mirrors to see if I'll be plowed 1st as opposed to the > former situation... > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 11:39:08 2004 From: To: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Re: Bike cleaner Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 11:39:00 -0500 > > From: Tom > Date: 2004/02/24 Tue AM 10:03:42 EST > To: DC Cycles > Subject: Re: Bike cleaner > > Sean Steele wrote: > > > Any suggestions for an all-over bike detergent/cleaner that I can > > spray on, use a brush, and hose off? Extra points for large container > > size. Extra extra points for relatively inexpensive. > > > Honda's spray cleaner ( black can with red lettering ), is great. It's > about $4-$6, and many dealers/people tell me it is S100 with out the > cost. I've been using it for 8 years no problems. > > For referrence: > http://www.honda.ca/MotorcycleEng/Accessories/ProHondaFluids/0100-CB66946.htm > > Tom de '98 VTR that doesn't seem any cheaper than the S100. The aerosol S100 can is around $9.50 and the link you reference shows the Honda cleaner at ~$9. Either way both are good cleaners and work equally well. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 11:48:41 2004 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 11:48:14 -0500 From: Tom To: adamme1@XXXXXX Cc: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Bike cleaner adamme1@XXXXXX wrote: >>From: Tom >>Date: 2004/02/24 Tue AM 10:03:42 EST >>To: DC Cycles >>Subject: Re: Bike cleaner >> >>Sean Steele wrote: >> >> >> >>>Any suggestions for an all-over bike detergent/cleaner that I can >>>spray on, use a brush, and hose off? Extra points for large container >>>size. Extra extra points for relatively inexpensive. >>> >>> >>> >>Honda's spray cleaner ( black can with red lettering ), is great. It's >>about $4-$6, and many dealers/people tell me it is S100 with out the >>cost. I've been using it for 8 years no problems. >> >>For referrence: >>http://www.honda.ca/MotorcycleEng/Accessories/ProHondaFluids/0100-CB66946.htm >> >>Tom de '98 VTR >> >> > > >that doesn't seem any cheaper than the S100. The aerosol S100 can is around $9.50 and the link you reference shows the Honda cleaner at ~$9. Either way both are good cleaners >and work equally well. > > > > Well thats Canadian dollars, first hit I got on the 'net, local shops got it for ~$5... Tom de'... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 12:00:24 2004 From: To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Bike cleaner Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 12:00:17 -0500 > Well thats Canadian dollars, first hit I got on the 'net, local shops > got it for ~$5... > > Tom de'... > > > ah..then that IS a significant difference. About half. I'll definately have to look into buying that. I tried some from a friend of mine when I washed my bike over his place and it seemed to work just as well as the S100 but at half the price, that's it's something I need to look into. That's for the tip. -aki From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 12:04:08 2004 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 12:03:32 -0500 To: Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Enough! Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) At 09:15 AM 2/24/04 -0500, Dave Yates wrote: >Gimer wonders: >Obviously, Bartman didn't use his rear brake, or he'd have >been able to stop in plenty of time/space as opposed to those >not skilled enough to use the rear brake without fatal >consequences... I'm assuming this is in reference to some long ago thread on this list... -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 12:05:05 2004 From: "Sean Steele" To: "Tom" CC: adamme1@XXXXXX, "DC Cycles" Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 12:04:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Bike cleaner X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information Try this: http://www.motoemporium.com/hondapolish/hondapolish.html Tom wrote: > Well thats Canadian dollars, first hit I got on the 'net, local shops > got it for ~$5... > > Tom de'... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 12:09:08 2004 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 12:09:16 -0500 To: "Sean Steele" , "DC Cycles" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Bike cleaner At 09:41 AM 2/24/04 -0500, Sean Steele wrote: >Any suggestions for an all-over bike detergent/cleaner that I can spray >on, use a brush, and hose off? S-100 works pretty well even without the brush. Battley's has it for sure, as does D.C. Choppers, and I expect most moto dealers carry it. The usual size I've seen is about a quart in a spray bottle, but I think it's available in gallon refils too (might have to mail order that size though). Someone here mentioned a Honda equivalent that they said worked well too. >Extra points for large container size. Gallon is the biggest I've seen and that was in a catalog. >Extra extra points for relatively inexpensive. You might have me there...unless you want to make it relative to something fairly expensive. :^) -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 12:09:11 2004 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 12:05:26 -0500 To: Brian Roach , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Robbing me of my faith in humanity... At 09:20 AM 2/24/04 -0500, Brian Roach wrote: >Paul Wilson wrote: > >> Sorry to hear that. What we need are marauding bands of Bike Avengers, > > a la the Masked Bartman. We lie in wait for these bike-knocking-over > > cager excrescences to emerge from their hidey holes, we follow them > > home and beat the crap out of them. That'll teach 'em. > >A couple years ago there was a group of 4 guys in the UK that had this >idea, for bike thieves. There was a video (or a website with video? >Can't remember) showing where they would wait in a van in areas where >bikes were often stolen, and beat the hell out of the thieves when they >tried to steal the bikes. Sounds reasonable to me...provided they wait until the thieves actually steal the bike. Don't want to get some innocent passerby who just wants to admire it by mistake. I'm sure the legal "authorities" weren't real pleased though. Turf wars and all that. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 12:09:33 2004 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Enough! Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 12:11:36 -0500 Carl if I see you on the roads I am gonna follow you home and lecture you about email netitique. :-D Rob PS. That was a joke. On 24 Feb 2004 09:46:40 -0500, Carl Schelin wrote > > See you on the roads and drive carefully. > > Carl -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 12:09:36 2004 From: To: Subject: Re: Re: Bike cleaner Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 12:09:29 -0500 ...that's different stuff. The stuff I used was spray on, hose off. The cleaner/polish I have and it works great. Especially on windshields. -aki > > From: "Sean Steele" > Date: 2004/02/24 Tue PM 12:04:10 EST > To: "Tom" > CC: adamme1@XXXXXX, "DC Cycles" > Subject: Re: Bike cleaner > > Try this: > http://www.motoemporium.com/hondapolish/hondapolish.html > > Tom wrote: > > > Well thats Canadian dollars, first hit I got on the 'net, local shops > > got it for ~$5... > > > > Tom de'... > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 12:11:10 2004 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 12:11:07 -0500 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Enough! Re: Yesterday's riding (used to be: Re: Yeeehhhhhhaaaaaaaa!) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Bartman heaves a hanging fastball over the middle of the plate: >>Obviously, Bartman didn't use his rear brake, or he'd have >>been able to stop in plenty of time/space as opposed to >>those not skilled enough to use the rear brake without >>fatal consequences... > >I'm assuming this is in reference to some long ago thread on >this list... [Dave] It's an annual event. I think it comes right after the yearly tire thread, right ? Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 12:15:10 2004 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 12:15:12 -0500 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Enough! At 09:46 AM 2/24/04 -0500, Carl Schelin wrote: > >It's been rehashed and rehashed, refined and redescribed and now we're >at the point where you guys just can't (or won't) agree. Yep, that's pretty much it. Tim can have the last word if he wants. >And as far as Rita, at least she's riding a bike. I can't help it if you >have some sort of problem with me relating my wife's riding experiences, >either directly or as they relate to my riding. I have no problem with Rita, or you telling us about her learning to ride. It's been educational, and certainly on topic. >As far as moto content, I rode the Suzuki in today. It rides better in >the rain than the Harley and of course it's lots of fun. How so? I haven't ridden in more than a little spitting droplet stuff yet, but I'm sure that will change as the weather warms up and get wetter, so I'm curious about what problems you've had with the Harley. Are they control-related, visibility-related, or what? -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 12:29:27 2004 Subject: Re: Enough! From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 24 Feb 2004 12:25:59 -0500 On Tue, 2004-02-24 at 12:11, Rob Sharp wrote: > Carl if I see you on the roads I am gonna follow you home and lecture you > about email netitique. > As long as you sit on your bike and don't take your hands off of the controls. :-) > > :-D > Rob > > PS. That was a joke. > Yea, I knew that. I'm not quite that far gone dispite work :-) Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 12:35:12 2004 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 09:35:04 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Enough! To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Carl Schelin wrote: > On Tue, 2004-02-24 at 09:06, Tom Gimer wrote: > > for all the posts we endure about rita this and rita > that, > > you're nixxing a moto-related thread? wtf? > > > > It's been rehashed and rehashed, refined and redescribed > and now we're > at the point where you guys just can't (or won't) agree. > I think (and > yea, it's my opinion) we passed the point where it's > really moto-related > content and now it's you and Mike trying to get someone > to give up, get > in the last word. you've attributed more posts to me than i've made. regardless, you're not the moderator here and this thread WAS moto-related until your input. > And as far as Rita, at least she's riding a bike. I can't > help it if you > have some sort of problem with me relating my wife's > riding experiences, > either directly or as they relate to my riding. more often than not, your comment about rita (seemingly a requisite part of every message) has NOTHING to do with riding. i simply pointed out that perhaps the person to complain about the thread be someone other than a prolific off-topic poster. > I try not to post non-moto content and expect someone to > pipe up with an > "Enough!" for me if I do. I hope I take the comment > gracefully and in > the spirit for which it was sent. > > Hopefully, as a lawyer (college educated; not some > imagined slight), > you're smart enough to filter out my messages that have > "Rita" in the > body of the message. what the hell for? i get a kick out of searching for the rita element. i'm also smart enough to delete those threads that don't interest me.... as are you. fair enough? enough. > As far as moto content, I rode the Suzuki in today. It > rides better in > the rain than the Harley and of course it's lots of fun. > > See you on the roads and drive carefully. > > Carl > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 12:36:54 2004 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 09:36:46 -0800 (PST) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: Bike cleaner To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Just thought I'd mention these are two entirely different products for different uses. The S100 cleaner is similar to a "car wash" product meaning you use the hose like you are doing a full wash. The Honda Spray Cleaner is not made for this use. Its more like a "wax" in an aerosol can, not to be used to a highly soiled bike. Glenn --- Tom wrote: > Sean Steele wrote: > > > Any suggestions for an all-over bike > detergent/cleaner that I can > > spray on, use a brush, and hose off? Extra points > for large container > > size. Extra extra points for relatively > inexpensive. > > > Honda's spray cleaner ( black can with red lettering > ), is great. It's > about $4-$6, and many dealers/people tell me it is > S100 with out the > cost. I've been using it for 8 years no problems. > > For referrence: > http://www.honda.ca/MotorcycleEng/Accessories/ProHondaFluids/0100-CB66946.htm > > Tom de '98 VTR > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 12:40:45 2004 From: "Sean Steele" To: "DC Cycles" Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 12:39:45 -0500 Subject: Painting rusty exhaust pipes? X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information I know this makes a ton of posts today from me, a confirmed rat bike newbie with a penchant for drops and push-overs and a seemingly unquenchable thirst for maintenance advice... BUT... My pipes are rusty. They look cosemtically bad, but are physically sound, I believe. Can I sand out the rust and paint them with some balck rustoleum? What's the downside? Danke, -Sean, not riding today -- he's a'skeered of the rain From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 12:41:23 2004 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 12:38:12 -0500 To: Tom , adamme1@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Bike cleaner Cc: DC Cycles At 11:48 AM 2/24/04 -0500, Tom wrote: >adamme1@XXXXXX wrote: >>>Honda's spray cleaner ( black can with red lettering ), is great. It's >>>about $4-$6, and many dealers/people tell me it is S100 with out the >>>cost. I've been using it for 8 years no problems. >>> >>>For referrence: >>>http://www.honda.ca/MotorcycleEng/Accessories/ProHondaFluids/0100-CB66946 .htm >>> >>>Tom de '98 VTR >> >>that doesn't seem any cheaper than the S100. The aerosol S100 can is around $9.50 and the link you reference shows the Honda cleaner at ~$9. Either way both are good cleaners >>and work equally well. S-100 in the spray bottle is $6.95 at: http://www.topoftheline.com/motorcycles100wheelcleaner.html I think that's a half liter, but I'd have to check to be sure. There's a 1 liter refill ($11.99), and a 5 liter big refill ($47.99) at J&P Cycles: http://www.j-pcycles.com/shop/group.asp?GPID=3538 I got the gift pack as a "freebie" with my bike. I've washed the bike twice and haven't gone through half the spray bottle yet. This is it: http://www.jpcycles.com/shop/product.asp?PRID=16396&GPID=3541&PLID=29&DPID=1 64&mscssid=AMDM87X6RNSP8H9FA7JFQ0P4B6FGAG12 The stuff seems to work well...my bike comes out clean and shiny, and it doesn't take much work to do it. Hose, spray, hose, blow, ride. Haven't used the Honda stuff yet, so I can't say how it compares, but some here seem to like it just fine. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 12:45:19 2004 Subject: Re: Enough! From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 24 Feb 2004 12:41:52 -0500 On Tue, 2004-02-24 at 12:15, Mike Bartman wrote: > At 09:46 AM 2/24/04 -0500, Carl Schelin wrote: > >As far as moto content, I rode the Suzuki in today. It rides better in > >the rain than the Harley and of course it's lots of fun. > > How so? I haven't ridden in more than a little spitting droplet stuff yet, > but I'm sure that will change as the weather warms up and get wetter, so > I'm curious about what problems you've had with the Harley. Are they > control-related, visibility-related, or what? > The main issue is visibility. The full-face seems to get very foggy and difficult to see out of when riding the harley. Of course lifing the shield just gets wind and rain in my face. On the suzuki the wind blows from the top to bottom so the water actually runs down like it's supposed to. Same with the heated gloves. My hands are almost burning on the suzuki (I had a red spot when I rode to New York) but my thumbs are almost frozen on the harley. Of course it's the position in the wind. I think that's the main issue. It's hard to keep a steady hand when one of them is spent wiping down the shield ever few seconds (or even holding up the hand to keep water out long enough to get clear vision). > -- Mike B. > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 12:51:46 2004 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 09:51:40 -0800 (PST) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: Sean Steele , DC Cycles Subject: Re: Painting rusty exhaust pipes? -----Original Message----- From: Sean Steele I know this makes a ton of posts today from me, a confirmed rat bike newbie with a penchant for drops and push-overs and a seemingly unquenchable thirst for maintenance advice... BUT... +++++++++++++ An abundance of on-topic posts from Sean? I suppose there is something not quite right about this. :) If you're SO's name is "Rita" you may want to keep it to yourself. +++++++++++++ My pipes are rusty. They look cosemtically bad, but are physically sound, I believe. Can I sand out the rust and paint them with some balck rustoleum? What's the downside? Danke, -Sean, not riding today -- he's a'skeered of the rain -------- Painted headers? www.jet-hot.com I just got my pipes "done" on the VFR and installed them over the weekend. Nice. Hmm, riding in the rain. Just like riding in the dry, only wetter. :) Seriously, unless you ride at 10/10ths on a regular basis, you've got plenty of traction. --Paul in DC From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 12:58:15 2004 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 09:58:12 -0800 (PST) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: Painting rusty exhaust pipes? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX You will need to use something like Header Paint as regualr spray paint will burn off on the first ride. I don't know of any downsides except for the work invloved. Glenn --- Sean Steele wrote: > My pipes are rusty. They look cosemtically bad, but > are physically > sound, I believe. Can I sand out the rust and paint > them with some balck > rustoleum? What's the downside? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 12:58:36 2004 Subject: Re: Enough! From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 24 Feb 2004 12:55:08 -0500 On Tue, 2004-02-24 at 12:35, Tom Gimer wrote: > you're not the moderator here Damn, you're right. Here, I can fix my problem. *plonk* Thanks for playing. Carl -out From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 12:58:51 2004 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 12:58:56 -0500 To: Glenn Dysart , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Bike cleaner At 09:36 AM 2/24/04 -0800, Glenn Dysart wrote: >Just thought I'd mention these are two entirely >different products for different uses. The S100 >cleaner is similar to a "car wash" product meaning you >use the hose like you are doing a full wash. The >Honda Spray Cleaner is not made for this use. Its >more like a "wax" in an aerosol can, not to be used to >a highly soiled bike. It's probably also worth mentioning that S-100 makes several products, not just the spray cleaner. They have a spray wax, a brake/wheel cleaner, etc. too. If you want to wash, make sure you get the spray cleaner. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 13:01:34 2004 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 13:01:41 -0500 To: "Sean Steele" , "DC Cycles" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Painting rusty exhaust pipes? At 12:39 PM 2/24/04 -0500, Sean Steele wrote: >My pipes are rusty. They look cosemtically bad, but are physically >sound, I believe. Can I sand out the rust and paint them with some balck >rustoleum? What's the downside? Pipes get hot, right? If you paint them, use high temp paint. Something meant for painting engines might work. I can't say from personal experience...my pipes are chromed. :^) I did spray paint (with high temp paint) the muffler on my old VW bug, in an attempt to get it to last longer...rusted out pretty quickly anyway. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 13:05:38 2004 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 13:05:39 -0500 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Enough! At 12:41 PM 2/24/04 -0500, Carl Schelin wrote: >The main issue is visibility. The full-face seems to get very foggy and >difficult to see out of when riding the harley. I get that in the cold...I'm attributing it to the windsheild keeping most of the blast from getting to the helmet vents. I just crack the visor a little on one side until I'm up around 50mph and it stays clear...but I can see why that might not be the best plan in the rain. :^) >I think that's the main issue. It's hard to keep a steady hand when one >of them is spent wiping down the shield ever few seconds (or even >holding up the hand to keep water out long enough to get clear vision). I think we should look into visor-wipers.... -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 13:10:04 2004 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: smoked visors Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 13:09:56 -0500 Let's this again. Those w/ dark smoked visors do they get scratched? My mirror one gets all scratched up, my clear one doesn't. >From: "rich hall" >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: visors >Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 08:11:10 -0500 > >Do the dark smoke visors scratch up like the mirrored visors? >I love the look of the silver mirror on the silver helmet, but I go through >one a yr. _________________________________________________________________ Take off on a romantic weekend or a family adventure to these great U.S. locations. http://special.msn.com/local/hotdestinations.armx From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 13:11:46 2004 Subject: RE: Painting rusty exhaust pipes? Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 13:11:32 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Sean Steele" , "DC Cycles" X-imss-version: 2.0 X-imss-result: Passed X-imss-approveListMatch: *@nextel.com I've painted the pipe on a Yamaha FZR400 and a FZR1000, both turned out fine. Bear in mind, this is just a layer of paint, if you want a real durable coating I'd certainly second the recommendation for Jet-Hot coating. Fast turn-around, do it once and forget it. Isn't even that pricy. I had it done on my Interceptor's system, and never regretted it. If you do decide to paint, use high-temp/exhaust paint, and prep, prep, prep. Clean as best you can, and consider having the pipe media blasted to bare metal, although bare metal develops a film of surface rust as soon as it's breathed on. :-/ The new paint will stick better to bare metal, any old paint that flakes off will take the new paint with it, if it's painted over. Also, header paint usually only cures hard once it's been heat-cycled once or twice, so treat it gently until the pipe has been heated thoroughly. If you do this on the bike (not everyone has an oven big enough...) take care not to scrape off the new paint while re-mounting it. Robert PS: Did I mention Jet-Hot? -----Original Message----- From: Sean Steele [mailto:sean@XXXXXX] Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 12:40 PM To: DC Cycles Subject: Painting rusty exhaust pipes? I know this makes a ton of posts today from me, a confirmed rat bike newbie with a penchant for drops and push-overs and a seemingly unquenchable thirst for maintenance advice... BUT... My pipes are rusty. They look cosemtically bad, but are physically sound, I believe. Can I sand out the rust and paint them with some balck rustoleum? What's the downside? Danke, -Sean, not riding today -- he's a'skeered of the rain From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 13:13:46 2004 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 10:13:38 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Enough! To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Carl Schelin wrote: > On Tue, 2004-02-24 at 12:35, Tom Gimer wrote: > > you're not the moderator here > > Damn, you're right. > > Here, I can fix my problem. > > *plonk* don't forget to wipe > Thanks for playing. > > Carl -out __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 13:14:04 2004 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 13:13:38 -0500 From: Tom To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Bike cleaner Ok, Honda resells the S100 as "Hondabrite". The aerosol is labeled "polish", two different containers. That said I have many times cleaned close to 1/4 inch of oil/dirt/mess from my bikes with the aerosol (around chain/sprokets, i'm lazy and it gets bad). It works fine. As mentioned before many people (dealers, net lists, friends) have told me its the same stuff... not that it matters just my experience with the stuff, its cheap, it cleans (even caked on, deep crud). YMMV good luck, Tom de '98 VTR Glenn Dysart wrote: >Just thought I'd mention these are two entirely >different products for different uses. The S100 >cleaner is similar to a "car wash" product meaning you >use the hose like you are doing a full wash. The >Honda Spray Cleaner is not made for this use. Its >more like a "wax" in an aerosol can, not to be used to >a highly soiled bike. > >Glenn > >--- Tom wrote: > > >>Sean Steele wrote: >> >> >> >>>Any suggestions for an all-over bike >>> >>> >>detergent/cleaner that I can >> >> >>>spray on, use a brush, and hose off? Extra points >>> >>> >>for large container >> >> >>>size. Extra extra points for relatively >>> >>> >>inexpensive. >> >> >>Honda's spray cleaner ( black can with red lettering >>), is great. It's >>about $4-$6, and many dealers/people tell me it is >>S100 with out the >>cost. I've been using it for 8 years no problems. >> >>For referrence: >> >> >> >http://www.honda.ca/MotorcycleEng/Accessories/ProHondaFluids/0100-CB66946.htm > > >>Tom de '98 VTR >> >> >> > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. >http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 13:14:45 2004 Subject: RE: smoked visors Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 13:14:25 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "rich hall" , X-imss-version: 2.0 X-imss-result: Passed X-imss-approveListMatch: *@nextel.com Dark visors are usually made of tinted material, and will hide scratches better. Mirrored visors have a layer of film applied only on the surface, much more susceptible to scratches. My tinted visor for my Shoei 900 helmet has lasted for three years, and looks almost pristine. Of course, not many occasions to wear it the past few months... Robert -----Original Message----- From: rich hall [mailto:richallmc@XXXXXX] Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 1:10 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: smoked visors Let's this again. Those w/ dark smoked visors do they get scratched? My mirror one gets all scratched up, my clear one doesn't. >From: "rich hall" >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: visors >Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 08:11:10 -0500 > >Do the dark smoke visors scratch up like the mirrored visors? >I love the look of the silver mirror on the silver helmet, but I go through >one a yr. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 13:14:48 2004 From: "Sean Steele" To: "DC Cycles" Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 13:13:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Painting rusty exhaust pipes? X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information You guys aren't wrong about the work involved with getting header paint properly applied and cured. For example: http://www.racenet.net/exh/vht-high-temp.php 1st c. primer - cure - 2nd c. primer - cure - 1st c. paint - cure - 2nd c. paint - cure - From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 13:18:01 2004 Subject: RE: Painting rusty exhaust pipes? Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 13:17:50 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Sean Steele" , "DC Cycles" X-imss-version: 2.0 X-imss-result: Passed X-imss-approveListMatch: *@nextel.com By the time you figure the time involved, even at a moderate level of compensation for your own time, it really makes a lot of sense to have the pros do it. I'd never repaint another pipe, unless it was a short-term fix and I couldn't spare it off the bike. Robert -----Original Message----- From: Sean Steele [mailto:sean@XXXXXX] Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 1:14 PM To: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Painting rusty exhaust pipes? You guys aren't wrong about the work involved with getting header paint properly applied and cured. For example: http://www.racenet.net/exh/vht-high-temp.php 1st c. primer - cure - 2nd c. primer - cure - 1st c. paint - cure - 2nd c. paint - cure - From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 13:25:02 2004 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: smoked visors Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 13:24:54 -0500 Road debris aka rocks. >From: "Rob Keiser" >To: richallmc@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: RE: smoked visors >Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 13:17:40 -0500 > >Rich, > >What keeps scratching your shields? Road debris, cleaning solutions?? > >I've used smoked and mirrored ones over the past 12 years and haven't had >any significant issues with either. > >Rob >'98 VFR800 > > >From: "rich hall" >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: smoked visors >Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 13:09:56 -0500 > >Let's this again. Those w/ dark smoked visors do they get scratched? My >mirror one gets all scratched up, my clear one doesn't. > >>From: "rich hall" >>To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >>Subject: visors >>Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 08:11:10 -0500 >> >>Do the dark smoke visors scratch up like the mirrored visors? >>I love the look of the silver mirror on the silver helmet, but I go >>through one a yr. > >_________________________________________________________________ >Take off on a romantic weekend or a family adventure to these great U.S. >locations. http://special.msn.com/local/hotdestinations.armx > _________________________________________________________________ Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click here. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 13:29:13 2004 From: "Rob Keiser" To: richallmc@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: smoked visors Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 13:17:40 -0500 Rich, What keeps scratching your shields? Road debris, cleaning solutions?? I've used smoked and mirrored ones over the past 12 years and haven't had any significant issues with either. Rob '98 VFR800 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: smoked visors Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 13:09:56 -0500 Let's this again. Those w/ dark smoked visors do they get scratched? My mirror one gets all scratched up, my clear one doesn't. >From: "rich hall" >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: visors >Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 08:11:10 -0500 > >Do the dark smoke visors scratch up like the mirrored visors? >I love the look of the silver mirror on the silver helmet, but I go through >one a yr. _________________________________________________________________ Take off on a romantic weekend or a family adventure to these great U.S. locations. http://special.msn.com/local/hotdestinations.armx _________________________________________________________________ Store more e-mails with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage )B 4 plans to choose from! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 13:29:57 2004 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 13:29:12 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: smoked visors At 01:09 PM 2/24/2004, rich hall wrote: >Let's this again. Those w/ dark smoked visors do they get scratched? My >mirror one gets all scratched up, my clear one doesn't. No - my dark visor has no scratches after several years of summer use. I found some rain-x anti-fog wipes at Wal-Mart the other night and used them on my visors and cage windshields. Seemed to leave a lot of streaks when I applied it, but no fog so far. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 13:31:22 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 13:31:11 EST Subject: Re: Yesterday's riding To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 2/24/2004 11:10:26 AM Eastern Standard Time, MLynch@XXXXXX writes: > So, she comes within millimeters of the side of the truck > before she realizes I'm not moving and she has to swerve back (onto the > shoulder since she ran out of lane long ago), riding through the misc. crap > and car parts left on the side of the road, screaming her head off and > flailing around wildly in the driver's seat. Been There Done That. On a bike..... Still brings a smile to my face. Memmorrrieees... I would have had no trouble escaping, did nothing to cause the situation, I simply refused to get out of the way of someone who had no idea what "yield" means. I am kinda like a Chihuahua in its front yard, I will defend what is "mine" Bark, Bark, Bark, Teeth bared, growl, Yap, Yap. Run like hell when the big dog enters my yard. New "bumper sticker" on the ST1100. "Eat right, stay fit, DIE ANYWAY!" John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 17:27:00 2004 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 17:26:55 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: cvkgpena@XXXXXX Reply-To: cvkgpena@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: FZR600 for sale $2800 OBO My Benetton inspired DIY paintjob '93 FZR600 track bike with lights. Red/yellow/green/blue. Black frame, swingarm, and forks. D&D full race exhaust. Stage One jetting (just re-jetted last year). Very slight flat spot around 5K rpm, but otherwise the motor pulls strongly all the way to the redline. Completely re-worked suspension. Race Tech'ed front forks -- new stiffer springs and emulators. Plus a beefy, custom fork brace. Fox twin clicker rear shock. Raised rear ride height. Doesn't handle like your mother's FZR. Very quick turn in and very planted while leaned over. Great first track bike as the power isn't intimidating but it carves corners. Easy to learn the fine art of knee dragging. What else? Steel braided brake lines and HH front brake pads. -1 in the front and +1 in the back gearing. Better acceleration and pull coming out of corners than stock gearing. Still plenty of top end speed. Bridgestone BT56SS tires with plenty of life in them (very light street riding and they've seen 2 track days). Frame and bar end sliders. Smoke windscreen. Airtech TZ tailpiece. Pics at http://www.geocities.com/the_penas/chux_gsxr.htm I have to look at the odometer, but I think ~23,000 miles. I bought it used on eBay with ~19,000 miles on it. FULL DISCLOSURE: It's been done once, maybe twice. I lowsided it at the track (Summit, turn 5 going into the carousel). Left side engine cover is scuffed up. I repaired the bodywork myself (broke off a part of the lower fairing that had been previously repaired by the prior owner -- hence "maybe twice" -- and cracked the tailpiece). The left side upper near the rearview mirror was also previously cracked and I repaired it myself. It's not perfect up close, but looks just fine when you take a step or two back. Previous owner used it as a track bike and canyon carver, which is how I've used it. It's a fun bike for scratching. Definitely not a daily commuter. And not something you show off at the Starbucks in Rockville. A "sleeper" in terms of what it can do when ridden by a capable rider. You'll surprise a lot of people on newer, more powerful 600s and maybe even larger displacement sportbikes. You won't win any drag races and you'll get passed on the long main straight at Summit. You can ride it to the track, slap a number plate on it (I'll include one), pull the mirrors off, and basically be good to go. The headlights have 3M headlight protectors so you don't even need to tape them (but you'll need to tape the tail/brake light, which is an auto parts store add-on for street use). BTW, the oil filler cap and oil filter are safety wired. Then ride home at the end of the day. Haynes and Clymer manuals included. George Cole, Chris Weaver, and Steve Miller on the list have ridden it if you'd like their opinions of the bike. Somebody make me an offer I can't refuse! Chuck From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 17:36:55 2004 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 17:36:49 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: cvkgpena@XXXXXX Reply-To: cvkgpena@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: FZR600 for sale - addendum I should add that it has a current VA inspection sticker that I think expires in June or July. No turn signals, which aren't required in VA as long as you don't have any, i.e., you can't have front signals but no rear and vice-versa. I make no promises about passing inspection in DC, MD, or any other state. If you need turn signals, you're own your own to figure out how to mount and wire them. The wiring harness is all there but not all the connectors are still connected. The previous owner had tried using a turn signal eliminator kit, but I junked it and just wired up a brake light. You'll probably have to trace wires to figure out wiring the rear turn signals. Front turn signals should be plug'n'play. But there are no holes in the bodywork to mount front turn signals (but should be easily drilled). Also, no rear license plate light. Technically you're supposed to have one, but I passed inspection without one and haven't been hassled by any police about it. Chuck From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 19:47:11 2004 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 19:46:58 -0500 From: STmaven@XXXXXX To: richallmc@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: smoked visors X-AOL-IP: 68.50.87.188 you mirrored visor must be made with iridium. iridium scratches easily. In a message dated 2/24/2004 1:09:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, richallmc@XXXXXX writes: > > > Let's this again. Those w/ dark smoked visors do they get scratched? My > mirror one gets all scratched up, my clear one doesn't. > > >From: "rich hall" > >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > >Subject: visors > >Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 08:11:10 -0500 > > > >Do the dark smoke visors scratch up like the mirrored visors? > >I love the look of the silver mirror on the silver helmet, but I go through > >one a yr. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Take off on a romantic weekend or a family adventure to > these great U.S. > locations. http://special.msn.com/local/hotdestinations.armx From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 20:30:53 2004 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 17:30:50 -0800 (PST) From: John Kozyn Subject: Re: dc-cycles digest for 02/24/04 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Hey DC Guys'n Gals, Great fun with today's Digest: Some of tg's posts just about killed me.. lol, excellent form, Mr Gimer! Troutman: Mike, when you do all this to the VFR, pull out the rear hub. you'll likely have accumulated a significant amount of dirt in there, through the holes in the swingarm, making chain adjustment near impossible. It's not so hard to do except that mofo circlip! but it'll make everything easier later. Ya' putting a 15t in front? :) Re Pipes: I found Airborn Coatings in NC to be a good alternative to Jet Coatings. $95 for my Desmodue's headers. Problem I had with painting them is that dirt gets on and discolors it after a while. Figure yearly reapplication if you ride a bit. JK (D-mode) 1995 VFR750F 1999 900SS __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 22:38:06 2004 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 22:38:19 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: dc-cycles digest for 02/24/04 Cc: John Kozyn Yeah - it has 15t up front now, I'll replace it with another SuperHawk front again. Me likey. The whole freaking bike is coated with dirt. Too many gravel roads out here in PWC. I had to wipe the brake lights the other day just so you could see them. Tank is shiny though. I'm planning on having a lot of built up muck when I disassemble. Last time when I pulled the front rotor it was an inch thick pile of grease and gravel. If it weren't such a pain in the ass to get to, I'd probably clean it out more often. At 08:30 PM 2/24/2004, you wrote: >Troutman: Mike, when you do all this to the VFR, pull out the rear hub. >you'll likely have accumulated a significant amount of dirt in there, >through the holes in the swingarm, making chain adjustment near >impossible. It's not so hard to do except that mofo circlip! but it'll >make everything easier later. Ya' putting a 15t in front? :) _____________________________________ Mike Troutman mike@XXXXXX http://www.troutman.org/vfr '97 Honda VFR 750 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Feb 24 23:53:29 2004 Reply-To: From: "stephen" To: Subject: RE: RE: dc-cycles dc-cycles digest digest for for 02/24/04 02/24/04 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 23:53:20 -0500 Did Did Troutman Troutman and and John John Kozyn Kozyn post post twice twice,, or or is is there there a a problem problem with with the the email email server server or or with with my my email email program program? Stephen Stephen From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 25 06:55:41 2004 Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 06:55:34 -0500 (EST) From: jdonovan@XXXXXX To: Sean Steele cc: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Painting rusty exhaust pipes? On Tue, 24 Feb 2004, Sean Steele wrote: > My pipes are rusty. They look cosemtically bad, but are physically > sound, I believe. Can I sand out the rust and paint them with some balck > rustoleum? What's the downside? use the right paint... even bbq grill paint is most likely not high enough temp. prep, prep, prep, paint is only as good as the prep job. figure your time, and materials, and its likely a wash vs. replacement pipes, unless you have an older/rare model that the after market isn't servicing. also look into what a 'pro' would charge to strip/coat yours. -j From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 25 07:25:56 2004 Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 07:42:59 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Painting rusty exhaust pipes? On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 jdonovan@XXXXXX wrote: > On Tue, 24 Feb 2004, Sean Steele wrote: > > > My pipes are rusty. They look cosemtically bad, but are physically > > sound, I believe. Can I sand out the rust and paint them with some balck > > rustoleum? What's the downside? > > use the right paint... even bbq grill paint is most likely not high enough > temp. > > prep, prep, prep, paint is only as good as the prep job. > > figure your time, and materials, and its likely a wash vs. replacement > pipes, unless you have an older/rare model that the after market isn't > servicing. > > also look into what a 'pro' would charge to strip/coat yours. Por15 offers some high temp paints that can be used on exhaust systems - http://www.por15.com/subcat.asp?id=4 Eastwood Coating has a bunch of high temp paints, too - http://www.eastwood.com/Department.asp?SKW=TSC9&Dep_Key1=spc&Cat=Specialty+Coatings&SubCat=Exhaust+System I've used JetHot coating on headers in the past, with good results. Here is a picture of a freshly coated JetHot header (on right) vs. an old, noname coating (on left) - http://www.purplecar.org/jh-032103/P0002628.jpg The JetHot held up a lot better to the high EGTs associated with nitrous use on my car. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 25 09:21:19 2004 Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 09:21:07 -0500 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: dc-cycles dc-cycles digest digest for for 02/24/04 02/24/04 X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 It's It's just just you you.. I I only only got got their their posts posts once. :-) Scooter In a message dated 2/24/2004 11:53:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, stephen@XXXXXX writes: > > > Did Did Troutman Troutman and and John John Kozyn Kozyn post post twice > twice,, or or is is there there a a problem problem with with the the email > email server server or or with with my my email email > program program? > > Stephen Stephen From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 25 11:07:27 2004 From: Kirk Roy To: Subject: FS: 1998 Honda SuperHawk naked Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 11:07:25 -0500 1998 Honda VTR1000 SuperHawk $2000/obo 38k miles http://users.adelphia.net/~abcwkroy/IMG_1383.jpg Bike totalled by shop before titled (good title, not salvage, I'm the original titleholder) Related to bike being totalled: no fairing (Hawk GT headlight) factory gauges replaced frame dented but straight lower fairing stay mount repaired right side fairing/radiator mounts bent Right fork tube replaced Upper and lower triple clamps replaced (in 01 or 02) Head bearings replaced (in 01 or 02) Clutch master cylinder replaced (in 01 or 02) Tail section replaced Rear subframe twisted slightly Radiators replaced Clutch cover replaced Gas tank replaced Bike nice and steady @150mph @mid ohio for CSS (only one time on track back in 1999) Spare engine, mostly complete, ~28k miles Spare gas tank (with minor scratch, not original tank) Spare tail section (gouged, this is original part) Spare exhaust cans (drilled out, original but weren't on bike when it was totalled) Spare front brake rotor Hawk GT clipons (have stock bars too) Ventura rack with Pack-Rack and Grab Rail (www.ventura-bike.com) Minor tear on stock seat Tank bra Oil changes every 5k miles with Mobil1 15w50 Valves checked at prescribed intervals Factory service manual New Conti front tire (forgot model) Low mile Metzeler MEZ4 rear New front wheel bearings Race Tech 0.85 fork springs Flyscreen From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 25 11:10:36 2004 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'DCCycles'" Cc: "'sean@XXXXXX'" Subject: Paint and Such Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 11:14:04 -0500 Paint: POR 15 makes good stuff. FWIW here)B’s the skinny on their high temperature paints: ($16 per can) BLACK VELVET)B™ is the only black paint capable of withstanding extreme temperatures up to 1200)B̊ F. This high temp paint will maintain a rich black color and won't burn off. . . . meets or exceeds properties and requirements of MIL-C-13370. Can be brushed or sprayed POR-20® This Aluminum high temperature paint is capable of withstanding temperatures up to 1400)B̊ F, POR-20$)B® is also extremely weather, salt and moisture resistant. Helps prevent cracking, chipping, and peeling. FACTORY MANIFOLD GRAY)B™ is a high temp gray paint capable of withstanding extreme temperatures up to 1400)B̊ F. This high temp paint will maintain a durable iron gray color and won't burn off. . . . meets or exceeds properties and requirements of MIL-C-13370 I)B’ve not used their paints but the tank sealer is great. I have tried several BBQ paints (including Rustoleum) on my exhaust system and they were crap. A KB? Spray can of exhaust paint bought at Myer)B’s Cycle worked very well though. Such: Stay the hell out of BDC)B’s blind spots. (More gently presented in the MSF) Be conspicuous: Mind your lane position; Wear bright colored suits; Add auxiliary lights (if you can)B’t afford PIAAs or HELAs, pick up some Pilots or such at Auto Zone or WM for $20)and light )B‘em up thru a relay. A $30 set of tooters from Pep Boyz or Auto Zone can be both entertaining and a health asset. But stay the hell out of BDC)B’s blind spots. Any fender bender with a cage that puts it in a shop will land you in the ER (or morgue). Here is a good case for applying )B“Discretion is the better part of valor)B” (Hank IV by Billy). Did I mention )B“Stay the hell out of BDC’s blind spots.“? Grumpy Carl in Bethesda From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 25 13:21:15 2004 Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 13:21:09 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Air pressure flux A couple of weeks ago after the snow melted, I checked my tire pressure preflight and was down to 10 in the rear. Filled up to 29 front and rear. Probably Checked it daily before riding, no fluctuation. Didn't check it today until I get to work, and front and rear dropped to 15/19. Bike stored in garage (stays around 45F or so). I know weather changes will cause dramatic air pressure changes, but that was ridiculous. I have come to realize that although I hate the cold, after 15 minutes or so my neck loses feeling and the ride is much more enjoyable. I have assorted neck mufflers, but that wind was arctic this a.m. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 25 13:34:56 2004 Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 13:34:38 -0500 (EST) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Air pressure flux On Wed, 25 Feb 2004, Troutman wrote: > I have come to realize that although I hate the cold, after 15 minutes or > so my neck loses feeling and the ride is much more enjoyable. I have > assorted neck mufflers, but that wind was arctic this a.m. > Here's to polar fleece and heated hand grips!! And, Yes, I rode. Now, someone in a large gray SUV is parked in the motorcycle parking, next to my bike, with just barely enough room to open the door. GRRRR. (yes, i noted this to building security) -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 25 13:37:21 2004 Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 10:37:13 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: dc-cycles digest for 02/24/04 To: John Kozyn , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- John Kozyn wrote: > Hey DC Guys'n Gals, > > Great fun with today's Digest: > > Some of tg's posts just about killed me.. lol, excellent > form, Mr > Gimer! john, you know better than to provide public support for me. i'm nothing but a professional asshole and your support only encourages the further degradation of our society. -- tg __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 25 13:46:48 2004 Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 13:46:37 -0500 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Paint and Such X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 In a message dated 2/25/2004 11:14:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, Carl.Custer@XXXXXX writes: > Such: > > Stay the hell out of BDC)B’s blind spots. (More gently presented in the MSF) > But stay the hell out of BDC)B’s blind spots. > > > Any fender bender with a cage that puts it in a shop will land you in the ER > (or morgue). Here is a good case for applying )B“Discretion > is the better > part of valor)B” (Hank IV by Billy). > > Did I mention )B“Stay the hell out of BDC’s blind spots.“? > > Grumpy Carl in Bethesda So Carl....what you're telling us is to stay out of the blind spots, right? ;-) Scooter From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 25 13:47:01 2004 From: "Jeff Wisecarver" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Air pressure flux Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 13:46:49 -0500 You need to make sure that you are still using air that is rated for winter riding in your tires. The groundhog said we still have 6 more weeks of winter. If you mixed what was already in your tires with spring/summer mixture, that's what's creating that huge pressure change. After Winter, you need to COMPLETELY deflate your tire of the winter air mixture and then add in the spring summer mixture. This is very important!! Don't go riding around with the old air in your tires come springtime. ----------- Jeffrey C. Wisecarver jeff_wisecarver@XXXXXX Home (703)780-5421 Cell (703)786-4723 '89 RED ----Original Message Follows---- From: Troutman To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Air pressure flux Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 13:21:09 -0500 A couple of weeks ago after the snow melted, I checked my tire pressure preflight and was down to 10 in the rear. Filled up to 29 front and rear. Probably Checked it daily before riding, no fluctuation. Didn't check it today until I get to work, and front and rear dropped to 15/19. Bike stored in garage (stays around 45F or so). I know weather changes will cause dramatic air pressure changes, but that was ridiculous. I have come to realize that although I hate the cold, after 15 minutes or so my neck loses feeling and the ride is much more enjoyable. I have assorted neck mufflers, but that wind was arctic this a.m. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org _________________________________________________________________ Dream of owning a home? Find out how in the First-time Home Buying Guide. http://special.msn.com/home/firsthome.armx From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 25 13:49:07 2004 Subject: Re: Air pressure flux From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 25 Feb 2004 13:45:36 -0500 On Wed, 2004-02-25 at 13:21, Troutman wrote: > I have come to realize that although I hate the cold, after 15 minutes or > so my neck loses feeling and the ride is much more enjoyable. I have > assorted neck mufflers, but that wind was arctic this a.m. > I'm using a very thickly woven (higher threads per inch) but thin scarf which wraps around completely. I start at the middle which goes on my chin. The free ends are each wrapped around my neck and tucked into the jacket. The helmet cinches over the scarf which holds it in position. It's worked to 8 degrees so far. I have to remember to tuck in the sides every once in a while but it works great. Maybe you're just not wrapped too tight *ba-dump-dum* :-) Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 25 14:06:10 2004 From: To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Air pressure flux Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 14:06:03 -0500 > > I'm using a very thickly woven (higher threads per inch) but thin scarf > which wraps around completely. I start at the middle which goes on my > chin. The free ends are each wrapped around my neck and tucked into the > jacket. The helmet cinches over the scarf which holds it in position. > It's worked to 8 degrees so far. I have to remember to tuck in the sides > every once in a while but it works great. > > Maybe you're just not wrapped too tight *ba-dump-dum* :-) > > Carl > ..bah...I put on my cashmere coat, pull up the collar, grab my briefcase and briskly run to the car. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 25 14:29:59 2004 Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 14:29:52 -0500 From: Skip To: DC Cycles Subject: [Fwd: Re: Bike cleaner] Spray 9 works pretty well. Sean Steele wrote: > > Any suggestions for an all-over bike detergent/cleaner that I can spray > on, use a brush, and hose off? Extra points for large container size. > Extra extra points for relatively inexpensive. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 25 15:13:09 2004 Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 15:13:11 -0500 To: Troutman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Air pressure flux At 01:21 PM 2/25/04 -0500, Troutman wrote: >A couple of weeks ago after the snow melted, I checked my tire pressure >preflight and was down to 10 in the rear. Filled up to 29 front and >rear. Probably Checked it daily before riding, no fluctuation. Didn't >check it today until I get to work, and front and rear dropped to >15/19. Bike stored in garage (stays around 45F or so). I know weather >changes will cause dramatic air pressure changes, but that was ridiculous. That's weird. And with hot tires too...meaning your cold pressure will be even lower. Any small children around who might have discovered the neat hiss from playing with the bike's valve stems? Do you get any air loss from wiggling the valve stems around? Anything stuck through the tread that you don't *always* park on top of? Valve cores tight and functional? Valve stem caps clean and empty (putting a bit of matchstick inside was a popular practical joke at one time...presses on the release enough to result in a very slow leak)? Spouse not trying to be helpful and just having the wrong pressure value? If tubeless, is there a crack in the rim somewhere (might open only when parked so the weight is on it just right)? That's all the wild guesses I can come up with at the moment... I agree that that's way too much change to be due to weather. Air pressure changes aren't as big as that. Even temperature shifts aren't...at least not over the last few weeks. I've seen 3-4 lbs change when it goes from 40-something to 20-something, but not 10 or more. >I have come to realize that although I hate the cold, after 15 minutes or >so my neck loses feeling and the ride is much more enjoyable. I have >assorted neck mufflers, but that wind was arctic this a.m. I don't know if it's the windshield, the full face, the jacket, the beard or the riding position (very "standard" ;-), but I haven't found a need for as much as a scarf so far. Coldest I've ridden in is 26 F. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 25 15:16:15 2004 Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 15:15:31 -0500 To: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Paint and Such At 01:46 PM 2/25/04 -0500, ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: >In a message dated 2/25/2004 11:14:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, Carl.Custer@XXXXXX writes: : >> Did I mention )B“Stay the hell out of BDC’s blind spots.“? >> >> Grumpy Carl in Bethesda > >So Carl....what you're telling us is to stay out of the blind spots, right? ;-) What do you do when the blind spot is 360 degrees? -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 25 16:52:37 2004 From: "Sean Steele" To: "DC Cycles" Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 16:51:40 -0500 Subject: Old air? X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information > After Winter, you need to COMPLETELY deflate your tire of the winter > air mixture and then add in the spring summer mixture. This is very > important!! Don't go riding around with the old air in your tires > come springtime. Jeff, "Old air"?? I must be missing something conspicuous about air that I don't know... -Sean From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 25 16:52:44 2004 Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 16:53:03 -0500 From: "Steven C. Di Pietro" CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Air pressure flux X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out012.verizon.net from [151.196.238.169] at Wed, 25 Feb 2004 15:52:40 -0600 >At 01:21 PM 2/25/04 -0500, Troutman wrote: > > >>A couple of weeks ago after the snow melted, I checked my tire pressure >>preflight and was down to 10 in the rear. Filled up to 29 front and >>rear. Probably Checked it daily before riding, no fluctuation. Didn't >>check it today until I get to work, and front and rear dropped to >>15/19. Bike stored in garage (stays around 45F or so). I know weather >>changes will cause dramatic air pressure changes, but that was ridiculous. >> >> Mike, What quality air pressure gauge are you using? A poor quality gauge could give you inconsistent readings. Steven C. Di Pietro Interim National Director The Suzuki Owners Club -USA 16 W. Jeffrey Street Baltimore Md. 21225-1713 http://www.soc-usa.org 1996 Suzuki Katana 600 2001 Suzuki Marauder 800 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 25 16:57:51 2004 Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 16:57:46 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: Air pressure flux At 04:53 PM 2/25/2004, Steven C. Di Pietro wrote: > What quality air pressure gauge are you using? A poor quality > gauge could give you inconsistent readings. Actually, I have excellent gauges at home. One is a tire fill gauge that connects to my air compressor. My quality independent gauge is a radial dial brass model I have had for years. My backups are two pen style push outs. All of them read the same. Of course at work, I was using a co-worker's digital which may have been a POS. I'll know when I head to the gas station across the street tonight and pay $.50 for air. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 25 16:59:23 2004 From: Michael Lynch To: DC Cycles Subject: RE: Old air? Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 17:01:30 -0500 Sean, I see your confusion. Jeff should have said "old *winter* air". It's specifically the winter air that you don't want mixing with the springtime air. Glad I could clarify that for you. :-) Mike 98 XR400 96 VFR 76 CB400F > -----Original Message----- > From: Sean Steele [SMTP:sean@XXXXXX] > Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 4:52 PM > To: DC Cycles > Subject: Old air? > > > After Winter, you need to COMPLETELY deflate your tire of the winter > > air mixture and then add in the spring summer mixture. This is very > > important!! Don't go riding around with the old air in your tires > > come springtime. > > Jeff, > > "Old air"?? I must be missing something conspicuous about air that I > don't know... > > -Sean > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 25 17:05:33 2004 From: "Sean Steele" To: "DC Cycles" Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 17:04:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Old air? X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information :: stands near punch table, root beer in hand and pocket protector on :: "Hey guys, I'm Sean, the new guy..." Thanks for the clarification Mike ;-) -Sean "I may go snipe hunting this weekend" Steele Michael Lynch wrote: > Sean, > I see your confusion. Jeff should have said "old *winter* air". It's > specifically the winter air that you don't want mixing with the springtime > air. Glad I could clarify that for you. :-) > > Mike > 98 XR400 > 96 VFR > 76 CB400F From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 25 17:35:47 2004 Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 17:35:38 -0500 From: Skip Smith To: Sean Steele CC: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Old air? He's not joking. Winter air, being colder, is much denser. that's not a problem when it's cold outside, but as soon as it starts to warm up, the denser air can cause all sorts of problems. --skip, deflating Sean Steele wrote: > > :: stands near punch table, root beer in hand and pocket protector on :: > > "Hey guys, I'm Sean, the new guy..." > > Thanks for the clarification Mike ;-) > > -Sean "I may go snipe hunting this weekend" Steele > > Michael Lynch wrote: > > > Sean, > > I see your confusion. Jeff should have said "old *winter* air". It's > > specifically the winter air that you don't want mixing with the springtime > > air. Glad I could clarify that for you. :-) > > > > Mike > > 98 XR400 > > 96 VFR > > 76 CB400F From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 25 17:40:00 2004 From: "Sean Steele" To: "DC Cycles" Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 17:39:05 -0500 Subject: Re: Old air? X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information OK, OK... mercy. I give already! -Sean Skip Smith wrote: > He's not joking. > > Winter air, being colder, is much denser. that's not a problem when > it's cold outside, but as soon as it starts to warm up, the denser air > can cause all sorts of problems. > > --skip, deflating From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 25 17:58:03 2004 From: "Michael Jordan" To: "'DC Cycles'" Subject: RE: Old air? Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 17:57:47 -0500 The really fast guys take their tires to an air conditioning shop and hook them up to a vacuum pump to get as much out as possible. Most of us don't press our bikes hard enough to require that - merely letting them deflate to ambient pressure and reinflating them with fresh is sufficient. On a side note for those of us lucky enough to have compressors in our garages, don't forget to run the tanks through a purge/refill cycle. Michael J. > -----Original Message----- > From: Sean Steele [mailto:sean@XXXXXX] > Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 17:39 > To: DC Cycles > Subject: Re: Old air? > > OK, OK... mercy. I give already! > > -Sean > > Skip Smith wrote: > > > He's not joking. > > > > Winter air, being colder, is much denser. that's not a > problem when > > it's cold outside, but as soon as it starts to warm up, the > denser air > > can cause all sorts of problems. > > > > --skip, deflating > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 25 19:09:59 2004 Subject: Moto DC Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 19:13:14 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: "Michael Jordan" , "DC Cycles" Got the R6 back today. The bike looks as close to pristine as a bike with 6000 miles on it will. Total cost of parts, labor, oil change and replacement of rear tire came to $1440. I priced everything from the typical online locations: - www.bikebansdit.com - www.cycleparts.com - www.ebay.com By the time I factored in shipping the price difference was less than 150.00 I did bid on a 02 tail section that ended up costing fifty less than retail. I ended up getting the tail section from e-bay a week late. The one minor thing was that somehow today the new front panel got scratched. Heath McKee of Coleman who has been absolutely excellent to me, he had them buff it out to the best of their ability and gave me a further discount off labor in addition to the 10% February savings on parts and service. I have had nothing but excellent treatment in their hands and I owe them much gratitude for their efforts. The front panel looks 99% and as uptight as I am I am going to go with the two parallel indents only visible from a certain angle. I just returned from my personal moto dc odyssey and thought I would share. 5:05 PM The evening starts off warm enough as I take the 66 East exit from Glebe road. Get up to 60mph and drop into cruise mode. No speeding in Arlington county for this cat. Traffic is light and people are respectful. Take Roosevelt bridge to the Whitehurst Freeway. By the time I hit Foxhall Road I was a little uncomfortable in my liner removed Field Sheer jacket and jeans. Saw one biker going South. Stopped into the parental residence to steal some nuts and whatever else found loose in the kitchen. On a whim I decide to head into downtown DC. By the time I hit Massachusetts avenue, I had ran a gauntlet of tail gaters and jittery unaware lane changers. Made it to Connecticut and P st and had to marvel at the congestion. As my engine began overheating I gained renewed respect for those of you that do this daily. The highlight comes when I am heading down 16th or 17th off Connecticut Avenue. The guy in the lane to my left decided to make a right turn onto H street as two punters heading towards me made a simultaneous turn left. The idiot truck driver almost swept me into another lane. I had to go across the yellow line and twist, turn and move in reverse in order to avoid this gaggle of incompetents. None of them even looked remotely guilty or conscious of their mistakes. You know those bang sticks that they use when sharks get too close for comfort?? I would like to have a couple slung low by my right hand. I started to calm down by the time I hit Constitution and had a relatively sedate but chilly ride back to North Glebe. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 25 20:10:36 2004 Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 20:27:34 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Moto DC On Wed, 25 Feb 2004, Julian Halton wrote: > Got the R6 back today. [...] > remotely guilty or conscious of their mistakes. You know those bang > sticks that they use when sharks get too close for comfort?? I would > like to have a couple slung low by my right hand. Glad to hear you have the bike back, good as new, and that you made it home safely :-) I love your idea about the bang sticks! -- Wayne From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 25 20:17:54 2004 Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 20:11:51 -0500 To: "Sean Steele" , "DC Cycles" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Old air? At 04:51 PM 2/25/04 -0500, Sean Steele wrote: > > After Winter, you need to COMPLETELY deflate your tire of the winter > > air mixture and then add in the spring summer mixture. This is very > > important!! Don't go riding around with the old air in your tires > > come springtime. > >Jeff, > >"Old air"?? I must be missing something conspicuous about air that I >don't know... I bet you haven't inspected your muffler bearings recently either. Slacker! -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 25 20:17:55 2004 Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 20:17:56 -0500 To: "Michael Jordan" , "'DC Cycles'" From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: Old air? At 05:57 PM 2/25/04 -0500, Michael Jordan wrote: >On a side note for those of us lucky enough to have compressors in our >garages, don't forget to run the tanks through a purge/refill cycle. I always drain the tank down when I'm done using it anyway. Don't want to leave the water that condenses out in there to rust the tank from the inside, and the idea of a steel tank with 90-100 psi in it for days or weeks at a time, just sitting there, bothers me. No biggie to turn it off and open the petcock on the bottom and wait until it quits hissing. Interesting to hear it plug up and then blow loose as the water that's coming out on a hot August afternoon freezes into little ice balls for a few seconds from the temperature drop as the air expands suddenly on leaving. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 25 20:18:55 2004 From: Michael Lynch To: "'DCCycles'" Cc: "'VFRList'" Subject: Gear Review: Sidi Sympatex On-Road Boots Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 20:21:02 -0500 Short version: Absolutely perfect. Long version: First there was the Teknic Defender "waterproof" boots from New Enough for $69. Less than a year, and after being uncomfortable enough to rub my feet raw (literally) when walking in them, both boots turn out to not be waterproof at all. That's it. Search the web and all-knowing VFRlist archives for reviews of waterproof boots. Of all boots out there, not one bad word was uttered against the Sidi Sympatex boots. In fact, everything said was nothing but high praise. Review in MCN from a rider with 100K miles on his boots said that he bought another pair to keep in the closet just in case the current ones ever fail, as he'll wear nothing else. How much are they? Holy smokes, New Enough has them for $260. Hem. Haw. The last straw came when I arrived to work yet again with cold, wet feet. These Defenders are dead weight. Call New Enough, they'll take them back for full store credit toward the Sidi boots. Let's do it. No more screwing around. Initial impression: Hmm, they look good. Lots of seams like the Defenders though, where water can seep in. The Italian leather is soft right out of the box. Comfortable right out of the box too. 4 big velcro closures look to be cumbersome to get the boots on and off. GF says they look good, Italian styling and all. First couple of days wearing them, ~45 miles moto, ~100 miles snowmobile: They seem fine on the bike, comfy, warm. Walking is easy and there are no specific rub spots. Go out on the snowmobiles and one sled overheats so we find a slushy section of the lake to get water. Since I have the fancy-schmancy new waterproof boots, I'm the one elected to get off here. Proceed to stand in ankle deep watery slush collecting water in a bottle. Feet are warm and dry. Now this is what I'm talking about. 2 weeks in, another ~150 miles moto: They have been as comfortable as any boot I have ever worn, and have proven themselves waterproof. The velcro straps are easy enough to use and are no hindrance getting in and out of the boots. I think these things are gonna work. There's nothing I can find to improve upon so far. Initial verdict: Bellissimo. Mike 98 XR400 96 VFR 76 CB400F From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 25 20:30:53 2004 Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 20:28:55 -0500 To: Wayne Edelen , DC Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Moto DC At 08:27 PM 2/25/04 -0500, Wayne Edelen wrote: >On Wed, 25 Feb 2004, Julian Halton wrote: > >> Got the R6 back today. >[...] >> remotely guilty or conscious of their mistakes. You know those bang >> sticks that they use when sharks get too close for comfort?? I would >> like to have a couple slung low by my right hand. > >Glad to hear you have the bike back, good as new, and that you made it >home safely :-) I love your idea about the bang sticks! Yeah, those are just shotgun or large pistol rounds on the ends of poles (I've heard of both 12 ga and .357 magnum being used). D.C. banned guns in the 70s, but did they ban ammunition? I'm pretty sure the poles are still legal there. What's the definition of "firearm", in D.C., anyway? They're probably illegal. On the other hand, what about a capacitor-type device on a pole? Something like a cattle prod that is just intended to fry the car's computer? The cops have been experimenting with things like that for a while. Cutest was a little rocket-powered car with a couple of copper rabbit ears to make contact with the bottom of the target vehicle...a sort of car-to-car torpedo. Worked pretty well, except on really old cars that don't use electronics. There's a guy in California who's doing the same thing using ultraviolet lasers...a "stun phaser" for cars...and a different model for people (like a wireless Tazer). Unfortunately, it's too big for a bike mount. I doubt they're illegal (yet), other than the "damaging private property" thing. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Feb 25 23:15:03 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 23:14:53 EST Subject: Re: Air pressure flux To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 2/25/2004 3:13:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, omni@XXXXXX writes: > That's all the > wild guesses I can come up with at the moment... Were you using the same air pressure gauge? Nothing will F&$k with your head like a bad gauge. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 26 10:24:28 2004 Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 10:41:15 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Weather in GA today A buddy of mine in Atlanta sent me this pic: http://www.ls6.net/misc/snow.jpg He said his office is almost empty with people calling in because of the snow :-) -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 26 10:29:08 2004 Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 07:29:05 -0800 (PST) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: Weather in GA today To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX That doesn't look to bad, look at the forecast for Asheville http://weather.yahoo.com/forecast/USNC0022.html. Doubt any one will be riding the Dragon today or tomorrow. Glenn --- Wayne Edelen wrote: > A buddy of mine in Atlanta sent me this pic: > > http://www.ls6.net/misc/snow.jpg > > He said his office is almost empty with people > calling in because of the > snow :-) > > -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 26 11:18:19 2004 Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 11:18:05 -0500 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: sean@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Old air? X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 Ahhhhh Grasshopper....once you can take this valve cap from my hand, you will have learned that you can't bring up tire pressure questions without starting the old "Summer v. Winter Air" thread. ;-) You will learn my son. LOL Scooter (aka Mr. Miagi "Uuuupppppp, ddoooooowwwwwwwnnnnnnn") In a message dated 2/25/2004 5:39:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, sean@XXXXXX writes: > > > OK, OK... mercy. I give already! > > -Sean > > Skip Smith wrote: > > > He's not joking. > > > > Winter air, being colder, is much denser. that's not a problem when > > it's cold outside, but as soon as it starts to warm up, > the denser air > > can cause all sorts of problems. > > > > --skip, deflating From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 26 11:34:13 2004 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Wayne Edelen , Subject: Re: Weather in GA today Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 11:36:16 -0500 My GF's parents live in Atlanta too and they are all crying about it too. Funny thing is they moved their from upstate Ny like 2 years ago. Figured they would be able to handle it :) Rob On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 10:41:15 -0500 (EST), Wayne Edelen wrote > A buddy of mine in Atlanta sent me this pic: > > http://www.ls6.net/misc/snow.jpg > > He said his office is almost empty with people calling in because of > the snow :-) > > -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 26 11:41:14 2004 Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 11:41:00 -0500 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: wayne@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Weather in GA today X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 What snow? ;-) Scooter In a message dated 2/26/2004 10:41:15 AM Eastern Standard Time, wayne@XXXXXX writes: > > > A buddy of mine in Atlanta sent me this pic: > > http://www.ls6.net/misc/snow.jpg > > He said his office is almost empty with people calling in > because of the > snow :-) > > -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 26 14:26:17 2004 Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:26:18 -0500 To: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX, wayne@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Weather in GA today At 11:41 AM 2/26/04 -0500, ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: >What snow? ;-) > >Scooter My co-workers are mostly in the Boston area. When we shut down over 4-8" of snow, they say exactly the same sorts of things... -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 26 15:26:31 2004 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" Cc: "'ScooterFZR@XXXXXX'" Subject: Paint and Such Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 15:31:36 -0500 Scooter Speculated, "So Carl....what you're telling us is to stay out of the blind spots, right? ;-)" Thanks for the clarification. I should have been more explicit. 8^D But, it seems to be an "ancient mystery" lost to modern drivers. Mike Bantered, "What do you do when the blind spot is 360 degrees?" Flash your lights? Honk if they're deaf. Carl in Bethesda (On digest so likely way off topic.) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 26 16:02:07 2004 Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 16:02:17 -0500 To: "Custer, Carl" , "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Paint and Such Cc: "'ScooterFZR@XXXXXX'" At 03:31 PM 2/26/04 -0500, Custer, Carl wrote: >Mike Bantered, >"What do you do when the blind spot is 360 degrees?" > >Flash your lights? I'm seriously considering a modulator for that. >Honk if they're deaf. I wonder if one of those proximity alarms they use for car anti-theft systems could be convinced to extend the sensitivity enough to notice a car coming over into your lane, without being so sensitive that you got a lot of false alarms? If so, hooking it to your horn might be worthwhile...especially if *you* aren't paying enough attention to catch the problem right away. :^) >Carl in Bethesda (On digest so likely way off topic.) Never! :^) -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 26 16:29:28 2004 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'Mike Bartman'" , "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" Subject: Paint and Such Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 16:34:38 -0500 >Flash your lights? [MB]: I'm seriously considering a modulator for that. Aux lights are really nice -- especially -- if the main light blows. Then you have something. >Honk if they're deaf. [MB]: I wonder if one of those proximity alarms they use for car anti-theft systems could be convinced to extend the sensitivity enough to notice a car coming over into your lane, without being so sensitive that you got a lot of false alarms? If so, hooking it to your horn might be worthwhile...especially if *you* aren't paying enough attention to catch the problem right away. :^) [Carl]: Check out the Mercedes E series. ~$900 option IIRC. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 26 18:09:14 2004 Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 18:09:21 -0500 To: "Custer, Carl" , "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Paint and Such At 04:34 PM 2/26/04 -0500, Custer, Carl wrote: >>Flash your lights? > >[MB]: I'm seriously considering a modulator for that. > >Aux lights are really nice -- especially -- if the main light blows. Then >you have something. I've got "passing lights". ~ 2" mini-headlamps, one on either side of the headlight. They are controlled by a toggle switch on the back of the upper fork cover. They do add considerably to the illumination immediately in front of the bike, and increase visibility, but I'm not sure I'd want to use them instead of the headlight for very long. >[MB]: I wonder if one of those proximity alarms they use for car anti-theft >systems could be convinced to extend the sensitivity enough to notice a car >coming over into your lane, without being so sensitive that you got a lot of >false alarms? If so, hooking it to your horn might be >worthwhile...especially if *you* aren't paying enough attention to catch the >problem right away. :^) > >[Carl]: Check out the Mercedes E series. ~$900 option IIRC. Hmmmm...I'll look into it. Curious what it does and how it works. Thanks! -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 26 18:24:34 2004 Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 18:24:41 -0500 To: "Custer, Carl" , "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Paint and Such At 06:09 PM 2/26/04 -0500, Mike Bartman wrote: >At 04:34 PM 2/26/04 -0500, Custer, Carl wrote: >>[MB]: I wonder if one of those proximity alarms they use for car anti-theft >>systems could be convinced to extend the sensitivity enough to notice a car >>coming over into your lane, without being so sensitive that you got a lot of >>false alarms? If so, hooking it to your horn might be >>worthwhile...especially if *you* aren't paying enough attention to catch the >>problem right away. :^) >> >>[Carl]: Check out the Mercedes E series. ~$900 option IIRC. If you were referring to the "Distronic" feature, that's not exactly what I was referring to, but it might be possible to adapt something like it. Distronic is a radar distance-measuring system that slows you if you start following too closely or the car ahead of you slows down. They have another one, "Parktronic" that uses ultrasonics to sense distance to cars behind you for purposes of parallel parking. I think the radar thing, aimed to the sides and with some computer smarts to monitor changes in distance might be useful for detecting lane changers. If their relative distance suddenly starts to decrease and at the same time falls below some reasonable distance (like half a lane width maybe?), they are coming your way, and some sort of signal is probably a good idea. Trend monitoring and fuzzy logic would probably be helpful with that. I'll throw something together after dinner... :^) -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Feb 26 20:39:17 2004 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Mike Bartman , ScooterFZR@XXXXXX, wayne@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Weather in GA today Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 20:41:24 -0500 I still go to work when we get snow. If I didn't they would make me work from home... Damn Internet! On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:26:18 -0500, Mike Bartman wrote > At 11:41 AM 2/26/04 -0500, ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: > >What snow? ;-) > > > >Scooter > > My co-workers are mostly in the Boston area. When we shut down over > 4-8" of snow, they say exactly the same sorts of things... > > -- Mike B. > > '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non- > Harley folks) > > Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes > is better. -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 27 10:59:29 2004 From: "Perry Coleman" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: FW: Snowshow rally in July Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 10:47:32 -0500 OK. Now that things have quieted down a little, I'll try asking again. Does anyone have any experience with this rally? Any feedback? Worth attending? There are some great roads around that area, but that's about all I know. Thanks! Perry >From: "Perry Coleman" >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Snowshow rally in July >Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 16:10:09 -0500 > >Has anyone been to the MC rally at Snowshoe, WV? See: >http://www.snowshoefreedomfest.com/ It is like the 3rd week in July. A few >years ago, my wife and I were working our way back up through WV, from >Kentucky, on the ending Sunday and saw LOTS of bikes heading away. It >looked like a lot of H-D, but not 100%. We cruised into Snowshoe early >Monday and it was all but deserted, by then. > >Anyway, we were considering heading out that way this year and wondered if >anyone had any experience with the rally. > >Perry _________________________________________________________________ Watch high-quality video with fast playback at MSN Video. Free! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200365ave/direct/01/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 27 13:49:47 2004 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'DCCycles'" Cc: "'julian@XXXXXX'" Subject: Moto DC Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 13:55:10 -0500 Julian Halton fantasized, "You know those bang sticks that they use when sharks get too close for comfort?? I would like to have a couple slung low by my right hand." & Wayne Endorsed I love your idea about the bang sticks! [Carl]: Years ago, after several encounters with aggressive drivers attempting to run me off of Wisconsin Ave in Georgetown, I contemplated making a "bang mallet". Two foot long handle of 1X 1 )B oak. Head of 2X4 spruce ~ 4inches long. Cover one end with rubber and insert nails in the other end. Use the rubber end as a warning, the nail end for damage. Most of these encounters were south of P street so the traffic light sequencing offered plenty of opportunity for "up close" revenge. Common sense succeeded, and I decided it'd just get me into trouble. Same with thoughts of throwing gravel in front of left lane hogs. Did break the antenna off the taxi of a particularly rude driver one morning and thrashed his hood while reciting what I thought of him and his parents. But that was in my young and reckless fifties. ;^). Also, veering off at Mass and taking Rock Creek seems to avoid the bad mojo down in Georgetown. Carl in Bethesda (settled in my sixties) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 27 14:17:53 2004 Subject: RE: Moto DC Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 14:09:47 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "DCCycles" X-imss-version: 2.0 X-imss-result: Passed X-imss-approveListMatch: *@nextel.com Didn't we have a minor thread a year or so ago about carrying a container of ball-bearings in the tankbag? I think that one was sparked (pun intended) by the flicking of lit cigarette butt into lap of moto-lister; although instant karma arrived when cage driver rammed vehicle ahead of him while watching rider beat out lap conflagration caused by aforementioned debris. Also some mention of bicyclists water bottle filled with acetone, not that I remember any of these anti-social comments in any great detail... ;-> On a more sedate note, I have been pondering a device to dispense quarters into the hopper on the toll-way, as it seems that the few times I do take this route that the "Exact Change" lanes are always less crowded than the Smart Tag lane(s). Plus, I get a bit annoyed at the amount of money the tag program holds onto, given the infrequent use I make of the toll-way. Robert -----Original Message----- From: Custer, Carl [mailto:Carl.Custer@XXXXXX] Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 1:55 PM To: 'DCCycles' Cc: 'julian@XXXXXX' Subject: Moto DC [Carl]: Years ago, after several encounters with aggressive drivers attempting to run me off of Wisconsin Ave in Georgetown, I contemplated making a "bang mallet". Two foot long handle of 1X 1 )B oak. Head of 2X4 spruce ~ 4inches long. Cover one end with rubber and insert nails in the other end. Use the rubber end as a warning, the nail end for damage. Most of these encounters were south of P street so the traffic light sequencing offered plenty of opportunity for "up close" revenge. Common sense succeeded, and I decided it'd just get me into trouble. Same with thoughts of throwing gravel in front of left lane hogs. Did break the antenna off the taxi of a particularly rude driver one morning and thrashed his hood while reciting what I thought of him and his parents. But that was in my young and reckless fifties. ;^). Also, veering off at Mass and taking Rock Creek seems to avoid the bad mojo down in Georgetown. Carl in Bethesda (settled in my sixties) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 27 14:23:35 2004 Subject: RE: Moto DC From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 27 Feb 2004 14:20:07 -0500 On Fri, 2004-02-27 at 14:09, Verde, Robert wrote: > Didn't we have a minor thread a year or so ago about carrying a container > of ball-bearings in the tankbag? I think that one was sparked (pun > intended) by the flicking of lit cigarette butt into lap of moto-lister; > although instant karma arrived when cage driver rammed vehicle ahead of > him while watching rider beat out lap conflagration caused by > aforementioned debris. Also some mention of bicyclists water bottle > filled with acetone, not that I remember any of these anti-social comments > in any great detail... ;-> > > On a more sedate note, I have been pondering a device to dispense quarters > into the hopper on the toll-way, as it seems that the few times I do take > this route that the "Exact Change" lanes are always less crowded than the > Smart Tag lane(s). Plus, I get a bit annoyed at the amount of money the > tag program holds onto, given the infrequent use I make of the toll-way. > You need one of the old tiddly-wink guns (put a bunch of dime sized 'winks in and pull the trigger). Make it quarter sized and just shoot them at the toll booth. Could even have a holster. 'course when the cop pulls you over, keep your hand away from your hip :-) > Robert > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 27 15:24:49 2004 Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 12:18:04 -0800 (PST) From: superbeard69 Subject: Legality question To: Robert.Verde@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Bein a law-abiding-citizen (LAC) and a newbie (16 months on a bike), I haven't yet had all those fun experiences of dealing with cagers in cagey situations. I've heard of the "bag-o-marbles" or "bag-o-ball bearings" concepts. Have also heard of adventures involving keying or kicking the sides of vehicles, or punchin on the windows (with or without a "weapon" in hand) while cruisin alongside the fool who violated our air space while ridin. Even Mark Whitman's "Biker's Creed" states: "I will never be the aggressor on the highway. However, should others mess with me, their aggression will be dealt with in as severe manner as I can cast upon them." So, I'm wonderin.......wondering the legality of all these retaliatory responses, mostly from a "coverin my own ass" perspective. Once you toss at, or kick at, or pound on another vehicle, for whatever reasons, ainthcya liable legally? Or, is it simply a matter of "if done to, then do unto others.....and split"....and only worry about it if yer caught? ;) Paul Pasadena MD 80CB750K __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 27 15:35:13 2004 Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 15:35:08 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: superbeard69 , Robert.Verde@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Legality question -----Original Message----- From: superbeard69 I've heard of the "bag-o-marbles" or "bag-o-ball bearings" concepts. Have also heard of adventures involving keying or kicking the sides of vehicles, or punchin on the windows (with or without a "weapon" in hand) while cruisin alongside the fool who violated our air space while ridin. ... So, I'm wonderin.......wondering the legality of all these retaliatory responses, mostly from a "coverin my own ass" perspective. Once you toss at, or kick at, or pound on another vehicle, for whatever reasons, ainthcya liable legally? Or, is it simply a matter of "if done to, then do unto others.....and split"....and only worry about it if yer caught? ;) Paul Pasadena MD 80CB750K -------------- I file most of these anecdotes about bikers hurling various objects under "Legends, Urban." I suppose a few of them are true. Retaliating against a cager is not something I ever contemplate. The best defense is the throttle. Put a road rager into your mirrors, toot sweet. Bottom line: I don't pick fights with, or respond to provocations from, vehicles that out-weigh me by a factor of three or more. Paul in DC From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 27 16:03:50 2004 Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 16:03:43 -0500 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Legality question To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Paul "Hey Mister Wiiiilson" advises: >-------------- I file most of these anecdotes about bikers hurling various objects under "Legends, Urban." I suppose a few of them are true. Retaliating against a cager is not something I ever contemplate. The best defense is the throttle. Put a road rager into your mirrors, toot sweet. [Dave] And it was this very week that Paul pointed out that even Mr. stopped clock (me) could be right twice / day ! ;-) I'd categorize most of the tales as tall... It's a lot tougher to stay balanced and kick a cage than it looks. Not to mention all that time, energy and effort you put into reaching into a bag full o' marbles could much more efficiently be spent twisting the right grip. PW then advises: Bottom line: I don't pick fights with, or respond to provocations from, vehicles that out-weigh me by a factor of three or more. [Dave] Well, I wouldn't say I don't respond... God forbid my helmet mutterings are ever recorded, I think Patton would blush. Everyone merits a response from "sure thing, go right aheah" to You stupid, skanky m***** f****** wh*** ! Of course, even at the top of my lungs, best impression of D.I. Hartmann, all the cagers notice is my helmet moving and the sound of the motor, but heck, it feels better. Another thing to consider, whether you act upon your thirst for revenge or not, is that if they screwed up badly enough to warrant your considering their stupidity, it's infinitely more satisfying to outwit them as a motorist. It's surprisingly easy for most seasoned moto pilots vs. the typically untrained cager. Know where you are, who's around you, what they're doing, have an escape route and don't be afraid to use it. Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 27 16:09:08 2004 Subject: Assuming good weather................ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 16:12:30 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: Assuming it is a truly righteous day tomorrow with no chance of rain, I will be in the parking lot of CarPool in Arlington on Fairfax Drive (3000 something or rather). From there I will riding to somewhere else and having some food, may take a relatively boring jaunt up to Annapolis or may first head up to McArthur, Seven locks, Rockville and find somewhere to have lunch. If anyone wants to join me, you are more than welcome, I can access my e-mail tonight. No pressure, No emphasis on group riding just a chance maybe to say hello in person. We could all end up having lunch nearby and then going our separate ways but nevertheless I will be riding tomorrow and if anyone responds I will meet you at CarPool tomorrow. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 27 16:12:22 2004 Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 16:12:08 -0500 To: superbeard69 , Robert.Verde@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Legality question At 12:18 PM 2/27/04 -0800, superbeard69 wrote: >So, I'm wonderin.......wondering the legality of all >these retaliatory responses, mostly from a "coverin my >own ass" perspective. Once you toss at, or kick at, or >pound on another vehicle, for whatever reasons, >ainthcya liable legally? Yep, very likely. If they can catch you, and prove it, anyway. >Or, is it simply a matter of "if done to, then do unto >others.....and split"....and only worry about it if >yer caught? ;) Pretty much, yes. Any other stuff involved you can take up with the religious advisor of your choice. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 27 16:22:53 2004 Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 13:22:25 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Assuming good weather................ To: Julian Halton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Julian Halton wrote: > > Assuming it is a truly righteous day tomorrow with no chance of rain, I > will be in the parking lot of CarPool in Arlington on Fairfax Drive > (3000 something or rather). Might be nice if you picked a time... 8;) -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 27 16:44:32 2004 Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 16:16:06 -0500 To: Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Legality question At 04:03 PM 2/27/04 -0500, Dave Yates wrote: >I'd categorize most of the tales as tall... It's a lot >tougher to stay balanced and kick a cage than it looks. It's not that hard if you are stopped. And on a light-weight bike. This I'm sure of, no question. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 27 16:46:41 2004 Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 16:46:37 -0500 To: "Julian Halton" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Assuming good weather................ At 04:12 PM 2/27/04 -0500, Julian Halton wrote: > >Assuming it is a truly righteous day tomorrow with no chance of rain, That's the description I've been getting from the weather sites...somewhere in the 50's, no chance of rain and sunny. Heck, it's pretty nice out right now, so that's easy to believe. Sunday they are talking almost 60, no chance of rain, but partly cloudy. >I will be in the parking lot of CarPool in Arlington on Fairfax Drive >(3000 something or rather). From there I will riding to somewhere else >and having some food, may take a relatively boring jaunt up to Annapolis >or may first head up to McArthur, Seven locks, Rockville and find >somewhere to have lunch. If anyone wants to join me, you are more than >welcome, I can access my e-mail tonight. I'll be near Rockville tomorrow, but plans aren't firmed up. They definitely include riding, but I don't know when or to where yet. Probably in the afternoon, and probably north, but other than that, not sure. Have fun, and same to whoever joins you down south there! I just put new grips on my bike. The stock rubber ones were bugging the heck out of my left palm, outer edge. I think it was the ridge at the end of the grip, but it may just have been the way it hit my hand. Other than that, they were fine, but pain in the clutch hand isn't acceptable. The new grips are more cushy, and a bit larger in diameter. They also have more chrome, but that wasn't a factor in picking them... :^) For the newbie wrenchers, like me, I just want to point out a couple of tips. The first two I got from a more experienced grip changer, the others I figured out on my own: o When you loosen the throttle cable adjusting nuts, put a mark on one face (I used a metal marking pen, but a grease pencil or Sharpie would work too), and count how many turns you back them off. *Remember* this number, or better, write it down. o If there's an idle cable too, back both cables off the *same* number of turns...it's easier to remember one number than two, and you can't get them backwards if they are the same. These two tips will make getting the cables adjusted when you are done a *lot* quicker and simpler. Just tighten the same number of turns you backed off, and you will be at, or very close to, the required adjustment setting. o When you remove the cable ends from the throttle, those little brass ferrules around the end of the cable ball are NOT attached. They can easily fall off. When they fall into your switch housing, they are a *bear* to get out again. Trust me on this. Dental tools, hemostats, and sticky stuff on the ends of cable ties are all useful for extracting them without having to completely remove the switch housing to turn it over and shake it. They are useful, but only barely adequate. Hold a work light in one hand so you can see into the (probably black, light-absorbing) switch housing, use your other hand to hold the upper switch housing out of the way, your third hand to push a cable tie under the switches to push the ferrule out where you can get at it, and your fourth hand to nab it with the sticky stuff on another cable tie, a bent bit of wire, or a carefully selected dental tool. If you neglected to grow sufficient hands, use cable ties to hold the switch housing away, use the dexterity you developed learning card tricks, and curse a lot. After a few tries you'll get it out. Probably. o Don't believe people when they tell you you'll have to cut the left grip off of the bike because it's glued on. It will appear that way, but it isn't necessarily true. Try removing the upper half of the switch housing and see if that frees it before you get out the razor knife. On the other hand, you don't want the old grips anyway, and they do cut pretty easily... o If you use a Throttle Rocker, be aware that the early models don't fit grips beyond a particular diameter. Mine fits the original grips great, but not the new ones. Luckily Throttle Rocker has re-designed their device so that the newer ones use a Velcro strap, rather than wrapping the hard plastic all the way around the grip, making them much more adjustable. o Reading the shop manual before you start is a really great idea. Read the part about removal and installation of the throttle grip, but don't overlook the fact that *adjustment* might be in a different section. There probably won't be a section for the left grip...if you can't figure that one out on your own, put the tools down and go find someone else to do the job. Or read the instructions that came with the new grips. It helps if you've glued things together before, so you have some concept as to what "enough" means. Luckily I did the "too much glue so it squeezes out all over everything" trick on various woodworking projects, so my bike doesn't look like the left grip has a cold now. o The glue provided with the grips could cause any future children you might have to be...different...so it might be a good idea to do the right grip first, tidy up, and then slam the left one on and run if you can't work outside. I thought some of the stuff in that glue was banned under international treaties... The new grips look good, and I'm hoping will solve by left hand pain problem. I'll know by Sunday. :^) Now I have to go get a new motherboard fan to replace the crappy one whose bearings are dying and making my machine here moan a lot...It's always something... -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 27 17:58:15 2004 Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 14:58:07 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Throttle Rocker 2, was Re: Assuming good weather................ To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > o If you use a Throttle Rocker, be aware that the early models don't fit > grips beyond a particular diameter. Weren't they offered in two sizes, or was that an imitator? >... Luckily Throttle Rocker has re-designed their device > so that the newer ones use a Velcro strap, rather than wrapping the hard > plastic all the way around the grip, making them much more adjustable. But (assuming they still have teeth on the inside of the plastic part) also making them non-adjustable while in motion. I don't think I like that. One of the niceties of the original was that if for any reason you didn't want it available, you could just rotate it completely out of the way. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 27 20:32:53 2004 Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 20:32:43 -0500 To: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Throttle Rocker 2, was Re: Assuming good weather................ At 02:58 PM 2/27/04 -0800, pltrgyst@XXXXXX wrote: >--- Mike Bartman wrote: > >> o If you use a Throttle Rocker, be aware that the early models don't fit >> grips beyond a particular diameter. > >Weren't they offered in two sizes, or was that an imitator? I've only seen one size, but with two types of attachment. The first one I saw (which I've been using for a few months now) is all plastic, and wraps around the grip, using springiness of the plastic to hold it in place. When you use it, the pressure tends to tighten the "wrap", so it doesn't slip. Push the other way and it slides fairly easily on the stock rubber grips. There wasn't any sort of size indication on the package (such as it is) that I remember. The other sort of attachment, which I just got today while i was out getting computer parts, is velcro. I'll see how well that works tomorrow, but it should have enough adjustment to handle the larger diameter of my new grips. >>... Luckily Throttle Rocker has re-designed their device >> so that the newer ones use a Velcro strap, rather than wrapping the hard >> plastic all the way around the grip, making them much more adjustable. > >But (assuming they still have teeth on the inside of the plastic part) also >making them non-adjustable while in motion. I don't think I like that. Once I got it where I wanted it, I never moved the old one, so that shouldn't be a problem for me. On the other hand, the old one wouldn't have been adjustable anyway...the new grips have a softer foam-type layer on them, and it would tend to bunch up and not let the old one slide anyway (I tried it...). We'll see. If the velcro version doesn't work out, I may see if some heat will let me *adjust* the old one enough to get it to fit ok. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Feb 27 20:45:42 2004 From: "David Thompson" To: Subject: Ride with Routemeister Mar 6 & 7 ?? Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 20:45:18 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine I've been watching the long range weather forecast and it looks like Saturday Mar 6 and Sunday Mar 7 will be precipt-free and the temperatures will be warm enough for an extended day ride. So--I'm planning to trailer the ST1100 down to Gaithersburg and blow away the PMS blues while my wife shops at the antique doll show. If anyone is interested, I'll be parked at the East entrance to the Montgomery County fairground, off Chestnus St in Gaithersburg from ~9:30 AM, both Saturday and Sunday. I plan to depart ~10:00 AM for points West or North for 200 - 300 miles both days, returning ~4:00 PM Saturday and ~3:00 PM Sunday. I hope to see some of you guys! Regards David "Routemeister" Thompson (Still buried in snow near Rochester NY) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Feb 28 00:35:33 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 00:35:20 EST Subject: Re: Assuming good weather................ To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 2/27/2004 4:47:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, omni@XXXXXX writes: > o When you loosen the throttle cable adjusting nuts, (Etc, etc, etc) UM Why? I almost never remove the throttle tube (Only on BMWs, then you must to avoid bending the tube retainer.) In fact it is easy to push the new grip too far onto the throttle tube where it can drag against the housing if you remove it. Pull (or cut) the old grip off, slide (using the glue as lube) the new grip on. Done. New "bumper sticker" on the ST1100. "Eat right, stay fit, DIE ANYWAY!" John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Feb 28 00:56:24 2004 Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 00:56:04 -0500 From: Brian Roach To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: grips (Assuming good weather................) Step one: Using razor blade, slit old grip end to end and remove. Step two: Slide new grip onto tube until it won't move. Jam nipple from air pump/compressor between tube and grip, turn on air, work grip the rest of the way on. New grip will slide right on, and stay there. If you really want to use something sticky, aquanet hair spray is great - the alcohol evaporates. - Roach PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > In a message dated 2/27/2004 4:47:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, > omni@XXXXXX writes: > > >>o When you loosen the throttle cable adjusting nuts, > > (Etc, etc, etc) > > UM > Why? > I almost never remove the throttle tube (Only on BMWs, then you must to avoid > bending the tube retainer.) In fact it is easy to push the new grip too far > onto the throttle tube where it can drag against the housing if you remove it. > Pull (or cut) the old grip off, slide (using the glue as lube) the new grip > on. Done. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 29 11:41:00 2004 Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 11:38:16 -0500 To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Assuming good weather................ At 12:35 AM 2/28/04 EST, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: >In a message dated 2/27/2004 4:47:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, >omni@XXXXXX writes: > >> o When you loosen the throttle cable adjusting nuts, >(Etc, etc, etc) > >UM >Why? >I almost never remove the throttle tube (Only on BMWs, then you must to avoid >bending the tube retainer.) Stock Harley throttle grip, and the replacement I was putting on, don't have separate throttle tubes. The grip incorporates it. Goes on over bare metal (with a little graphite for lubrication). Gets held in place by the switch housing (there's a groove that it rides in) and holds the two throttle cable ends itself. >Pull (or cut) the old grip off, slide (using the glue as lube) the new grip >on. Done. That's how it works on the left grip...though as it turned out, the stock grip wasn't glued on that I could see. Just clamped by the switch housing, similarly to the way the throttle was, but without the ability to rotate. I had it about half cut off by the time I realized this though. The new grip is glued on, and doesn't use the switch housing at all. The left handlebar end appeared to have been bead-blasted where the grip goes. Presumably to give the stock grip's rubber interior something to hold onto, and for any future glue used to have something to bite on as well. The right side was all shiny chrome for a slippery fit. On the chance that the left side's matte finish was just dried glue, and to make sure it was clean, I did wipe it down with some acetone, but it didn't change it in any way. Went for a couple of hours ride yesterday and the new grips worked great. Didn't get started until almost 2pm. We went out Glen Road, to Travilla, to River, and followed River out past where Seneca hits it, to where it suddenly drops to 25mph, the road surface deteriorates substantially, and it gets twisty and hilly. Then we wandered up into Poolsville for a late lunch, then back 28 to 118 up into Germantown, then back down to 28 on Great Seneca Highway and home. Only about 40 miles, but a very nice and varied 40 miles. Saw a few bikes, but not as many as I expected to see. There was a nice guy at McDonalds on a (I think) Silver Suzuki 650 that we chatted with a little, another on something I didn't recognize (might have been an older Triumph) who just nodded as he rode by, another sport bike we passed on River (didn't wave), a BMW (who did), and 6 or 8 Harleys, either singly or in pairs in various places (all of whom waved, except the guy in the black and yellow jacket who was ahead of us until he turned into a driveway off 28 a few miles east of Poolesville). There was one Harley parked at the side of the road, so we stopped to see if he needed any help, but he was just making a phone call. He said he was fine, thanked us for stopping, so we went on. Any of those you guys? -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 29 11:41:00 2004 Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 11:41:00 -0500 To: Brian Roach , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: grips (Assuming good weather................) Not on a Harley. There's no "tube" there on current models (may have been different in the past...probably was in fact). It's part of the grip (both new and old) on mine. That is the way it works on the left grip though...but the grips game with some glue to use. "Griplock" or something like that. Looked, and smelled, a lot like contact cement. -- Mike B. At 12:56 AM 2/28/04 -0500, Brian Roach wrote: > >Step one: Using razor blade, slit old grip end to end and remove. >Step two: Slide new grip onto tube until it won't move. Jam nipple from >air pump/compressor between tube and grip, turn on air, work grip the >rest of the way on. New grip will slide right on, and stay there. If you >really want to use something sticky, aquanet hair spray is great - the >alcohol evaporates. > >- Roach > > > >PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: >> In a message dated 2/27/2004 4:47:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, >> omni@XXXXXX writes: >> >> >>>o When you loosen the throttle cable adjusting nuts, >> >> (Etc, etc, etc) >> >> UM >> Why? >> I almost never remove the throttle tube (Only on BMWs, then you must to avoid >> bending the tube retainer.) In fact it is easy to push the new grip too far >> onto the throttle tube where it can drag against the housing if you remove it. >> Pull (or cut) the old grip off, slide (using the glue as lube) the new grip >> on. Done. > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 29 18:44:17 2004 Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 15:44:13 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Legality question To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- superbeard69 wrote: > > I've heard of the "bag-o-marbles" or "bag-o-ball > bearings" concepts. Have also heard of adventures > involving keying or kicking the sides of vehicles, or > punchin on the windows (with or without a "weapon" in > hand) while cruisin alongside the fool who violated > our air space while ridin. > Think about encountering that same bag-o-[etc] 10 minutes after someone else uses them. Do unto others etc... > Or, is it simply a matter of "if done to, then do unto > others.....and split"....and only worry about it if > yer caught? ;) > I wouldn't advise doing it even though I've been annoyed at cagers enough to hit the flat of my hand on the hood of one car and to kick at another car. It was stupid and I hope to get into and past my more aggressive '50s like Carl in Brrrrthesda did so I can enter into my calmer '60s. Oooohhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmi-ghod, look out! I can't recall the movie but the quote was: "you can think about it, but dooonnn't do it." > Paul > Pasadena MD > 80CB750K > Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 29 18:52:21 2004 Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 15:52:19 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Grips (was: Re: Assuming) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > I just put new grips on my bike. The stock rubber ones were bugging the > heck out of my left palm, outer edge. I think it was the ridge at the > end > of the grip, but it may just have been the way it hit my hand. Other > than > that, they were fine, but pain in the clutch hand isn't acceptable. The > new grips are more cushy, and a bit larger in diameter. They also have > more chrome, but that wasn't a factor in picking them... :^) I had a similar problem but simply adjusted the bars up about an inch changing the angle. No problems since I did it 18 months ago. Remember these things are created for the average guy. Those of us a little larger than average :-) need to make slight adjustments. > > -- Mike B. > Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 29 18:53:36 2004 Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 15:53:33 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Ride with Routemeister Mar 6 & 7 ?? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- David Thompson wrote: > I've been watching the long range weather forecast and it looks like > Saturday Mar 6 and Sunday Mar 7 will be precipt-free and the > temperatures > will be warm enough for an extended day ride. So--I'm planning to > trailer > the ST1100 down to Gaithersburg and blow away the PMS blues while my > wife > shops at the antique doll show. > Anything else there or just antique dolls? > Regards > David "Routemeister" Thompson > (Still buried in snow near Rochester NY) Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Feb 29 19:01:55 2004 Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 16:01:52 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Bike day To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Man, today was definately bike day. Tons and tons out there. A couple of guys were riding up the shoulder on Dale Blvd on the wrong side of the road (heading back towards Forestdale). Packs of sportbikes. Three at a light on very similar looking bikes (nice blue) one obviously female. They were at the front and when the light changed they were off. Lots of bikers out shaking the dust off and enjoying the day. Too bad I was taking boxes down to the storage shed and stuff down to the dump. Nice day yesterday for a ride down to Stafford to visit my daughter. Hope you had a nice riding day even if it was raining in WVa according to the weather channel. Tomorrow will be even nicer, I'm on mids _and_ I'm turning in my papers. Later, Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 95 Suzuki GSXR 750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools