From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 09:46:11 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA21234; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:46:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA18495; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:45:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from beta.mcit.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA24479; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:45:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from omzrelay.mcit.com (omzrelay.mcit.com [166.37.204.49]) by beta.mcit.com (8.8.8/) with ESMTP id IAA14587; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 08:45:18 -0600 (CST) Received: from imeid03.mcit.com.mci.com (imeid03.mcit.com [166.37.221.15]) by omzrelay.mcit.com (8.8.7/) with ESMTP id IAA31659; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 08:45:17 -0600 (CST) Received: from localHost ([166.41.242.141]) by imeid03.mcit.com.mci.com (Intermail v3.1 117 223) with SMTP id <19971201144516.SMGE18468@[166.41.242.141]>; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 08:45:16 -0600 Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 09:32 -0500 (EST) From: Todd Peer To: George Howell CC: "Gil M. Nissley" , DC Cycles Subject: 45k on a beemer...Was: why Gil keeps the Buell S1-2 X-Mailer: MailRoom v2.1e Message-Id: <19971201144516.SMGE18468@[166.41.242.141]> George Howell wrote: >>a Beemer.I seriously thought about it,but the Beemer had a few >>too many miles(45K+) and wasn't in too good of cosmetic condition. > >45000 miles?? That's just barely broken for a Beemer. Yup, just 2000 more miles and it'll be all broken.... ;-) Todd From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 10:17:42 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA22198; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:17:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA20367; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:17:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from micros-bh.micros.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA25528; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:17:33 -0500 (EST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by micros-bh.micros.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) id KAA07160 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:17:27 -0500 Received: from micros.micros.com by micros-bh.micros.com via smap (3.2) id xma007101; Mon, 1 Dec 97 10:16:57 -0500 Received: from smtplink.micros.com (smtplink.micros.com [206.241.52.10]) by micros.micros.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/micros-2.1) with SMTP id KAA19587 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:16:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccMail by smtplink.micros.com (ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.00) id AA880989004; Mon, 01 Dec 97 10:14:12 -0500 Message-Id: <9712018809.AA880989004@smtplink.micros.com> X-Mailer: ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.00 Date: Mon, 01 Dec 97 10:07:13 -0500 From: "Brian McCoy" To: Subject: Dec 5-7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alright... seeing as we have such positive turnouts for our group rides, I'll just ask now if anyone is free and willing to go any of these 3 days. That way we can muck about and not rush it at the last minute. As always, the ride will cater towards the slower people unless there's a huge turnout - then we have 2 groups. I'll find a route (Collin, what's your web page addy again?) - otherwise, I'm planning on doing some Skyline Drive/Blueridge over these days. Sheesh, i paid $20 for a year pass and only used it once! I guess I need to fit in a few more times before March... Ride safe, Brian From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 10:27:50 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA22568; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:27:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA20621; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:27:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from dlt5.dlt.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA25975; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:27:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from ANITA by dlt5.dlt.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.0.1457.7) id W6Q5QQN9; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:34:47 -0500 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 10:29:35 -0500 Message-ID: <01BCFD7A.DAA33DE0.anita@dlt.com> From: Anita Lauro Reply-To: "2xracers@XXXXXX" <2xracers@XXXXXX> To: "'Brian McCoy'" , "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: RE: Dec 5-7 Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 10:29:34 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Saturday, December 6th... just name the place/time. Anita On Monday, December 01, 1997 10:07 AM, Brian McCoy [SMTP:bmccoy@XXXXXX] wrote: > > Alright... seeing as we have such positive turnouts for our group > rides, I'll just ask now if anyone is free and willing to go any of > these 3 days. That way we can muck about and not rush it at the last > minute. As always, the ride will cater towards the slower people > unless there's a huge turnout - then we have 2 groups. I'll find a > route (Collin, what's your web page addy again?) - otherwise, I'm > planning on doing some Skyline Drive/Blueridge over these days. > > Sheesh, i paid $20 for a year pass and only used it once! I guess I > need to fit in a few more times before March... > > > Ride safe, > > Brian > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 10:33:46 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA22790; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:33:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA20814; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:33:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from att.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA26264; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:33:37 -0500 (EST) From: jcarver@XXXXXX Received: by cagw1.att.com; Mon Dec 1 10:28 EST 1997 Received: from dcn.dcn.att.com (dcn.dcn.att.com [135.44.192.113]) by caig1.att.att.com (AT&T/GW-1.0) with SMTP id KAA06005 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:24:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from dcn73.dcn.att.com (dcn73.nova.att.com) by dcn.dcn.att.com with SMTP id AA16450 (5.67c/IDA-1.5 for ); Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:33:48 -0500 Received: by dcn73.dcn.att.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) id <01BCFE44.86663E10@XXXXXX>; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:33:12 -0500 Message-Id: To: Subject: Homemade Electric Vest Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:33:50 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm back from my Turkey-day trip to NJ and the electric vest worked extremely well. After a minor break in DE, I ended up making repairs at my parents house in NJ and determined a probable cause to prevent it in the future. It was so windy, MC's were banned on the TPK. (Not that I wanted to go that way on the way up) The "recipe" from the web was, for the most part, accurate. There were some little things I learned while constructing my own vest that would be valuable to those out there who are considering making their own. The difference is amazing. It's like being in a warm bath vs. swimming in the Arctic Ocean. It's also nice to be riding and think, "I'm a little chilly; I think I'll turn my electric vest on." In all seriousness, if anyone wants to know anything about it send me an e-mail. I also have a 100' spool of wire left over that I would be willing to sell. (Newark electronics minimum order is $20, (I think), so I had to order 2 rolls) Later . . --John B6 Green From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 10:39:50 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA23123; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:39:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA21003; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:39:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from CVAX3.CDRH.FDA.GOV by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA26625; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:39:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from mr.cdrh.fda.gov by CVAX3.CDRH.FDA.GOV (PMDF V5.1-8 #21467) id <01IQNNEBZMM88ZIXJI@XXXXXX> for dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:38:06 EST Received: with PMDF-MR; Mon, 01 Dec 1997 10:38:01 -0500 (EST) MR-Received: by mta CVAX3; Relayed; Mon, 01 Dec 1997 10:38:01 -0500 Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 10:25:45 -0500 (EST) From: "Monahan, John C. 301-594-1212/158 fax 480-4224" Subject: Widder Lectric Vest To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 10:37:00 -0500 (EST) Importance: normal Priority: normal UA-content-id: C93ZXDGF6FVX X400-MTS-identifier: [;10830110217991/1701479@FDADR] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 1 Thanksgiving has taken its toll. I think it has something to do with the expanding Universe but whatever the reason I must sell my electric vest so that I can get a larger size for the expanded universe. FOR SALE Widder Ventura II Lectric Vest Size 40 color Black includes a switch cord and Battery cord. worn only 4 or 5 times = perfect condition Cost new $128 but the 1st $80 takes it. Even at the discount mail order places it is over $115 Widder describes this vest as designed for those riders who prefer wind protection and heat in the neck and body area. Features include a heated collar with ultra suede lining, heated pockets, Thinsulate Thermal insulation and a dual-slide zipper. The outer shell is made of urethane coated 200 denier Oxford weave nylon and has a 70 denier taffeta lining. for those of you into the style thing. send me an e-mail jcm@XXXXXX or call 301-854-3852 and leave a message. Now you can go ride. Jack From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 10:56:05 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA23898; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:56:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA21439; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:55:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from beta.mcit.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA27609; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:55:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from ndcrelay.mcit.com (ndcrelay.mcit.com [166.37.172.49]) by beta.mcit.com (8.8.8/) with ESMTP id JAA13479 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:55:18 -0600 (CST) Received: from imeid04.mcit.com.mci.com (imeid04.mcit.com [166.37.221.16]) by ndcrelay.mcit.com (8.8.7/) with ESMTP id KAA21989 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:55:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from LJTanner.mcit.com ([166.32.84.59]) by imeid04.mcit.com.mci.com (Intermail v3.1 117 223) with SMTP id <19971201155516.KDJW32664@XXXXXX> for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:55:16 -0600 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:55:15 -0500 Message-ID: <01BCFE47.9AE58F00.linda.tanner@mci.com> From: Linda Tanner To: "Dc-Cycles (E-mail)" Subject: Ride Report 11/29 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:55:11 -0500 Organization: MCI Telecommunications X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The day dawned cloudy, dreary and warm 50s, but I (who have implicit faith in weather predictors - yeah right) loaded up the bike and set off into the great unknown. Ok, it was Alexandria. When I arrived at the McDonalds, there were already 3 riders there - Brian McCoy, Michael Jordan and Louis Caplan. Thereafter, another 10 riders showed (in no particular order): Sean Sullivan Jeannette O'Brien Anita Lauro Peter Hartzler Roy Turner Kirk Roy Randy Dow Collin Fagan Todd Peer Mike Cruz for a total of 14 bikes (4 F3s) We broke up into two groups. Todd Peer (who so graciously constructed the route and made copies and everything) led the fast group. Roy Turner led the slow group. I rode sweep on the slower group which consisted of self-proclaimed newbies of Jeannette, Anita and Mike Cruz. Peter Hartzler also opted for the leisurely pace. We set off on S. Kings Highway. Left onto Telegraph Rd. At Route 1, jogged onto Old Colchester Rd. Roy (being very familiar with the road) rode on ahead at a spirited pace, while the rest of us led by me ( :-o) followed. Roy took over again (thank god) at Gunston Hall Rd. We continued on to Furnace Rd. Left onto Lorton Rd where we became confused and took a little excursion. After turning around in one of the Lorton Prison parking lots (and getting some interested looks), we retraced our route to find where we went wrong. The next wrong thing we did was listening to me for directions. After much more time spent scenic touring Fairfax county, we stopped at a gas station with maps and proceeded to get back on course. The route should have been Furnace, left on Lorton, then right onto Furnace again, right onto Hooes Rd, left onto Silverbrook, left onto Rt 123. We did it a little differently, but did make it to Rt 123. Right onto Hampton Rd, left onto Henderson, right onto Wolf Run Shoals Rd (lovely homes on the large side). Straight at Clifton Rd, Left onto Chapel Rd and right into a parking lot in Clifton where the fast group was lounging around, looking bored, waiting for us to show. We all stood around congratulating one another on the successful completion of the first leg of the ride (we DID get there afterall). After a short rest, we took off again. Roy switched off with Michael Jordan and we were off. And almost immediately, had to pull a U-ey to get back on course. The tradition is upheld. Main Street, straight through Newman Rd, left onto Colchester Rd, left onto Popes Head Rd, left onto Clifton Rd and quick right onto Compton (well almost, just a short excursion here). Jog on Compton Rd at Union Mill, straight at Rt 28, straight at Ordway, under 66 and a right onto Bull Run Post Office Rd. Right onto Rt 29, left onto Pleasant Valley, left onto Herndon Ave, left onto Rt 50. We stopped here for a confab and had a couple of incidents. A slight tip over (we won't mention any names, but it wasn't me) and a dead bike on restart. Anita's new baby was showing no indicator lights when the key was turned. I got out my trusty multimeter and we proceeded to test her fuses. Turns out it was just a loose battery connection, but I was prepared for the worst. All fixed, and we were off again. Right onto Rt 606, left onto Evergreen Mill Rd (Rt 621). We skipped a stop in Arcola and continued with a left onto Rt 15 and on into Leesburg where we stopped at Paynes and told lies and shot pool. If the fast group had any adventures, they kept mum. Perhaps someone will report. Louis Caplan had to leave the ride because of prior obligations and I understand that the fast group abandoned Randy Dow when he went off for gas. They're really NOT prejudiced against dual sporters. Sorry about that, Randy. At least, those of us in the leisurely group arrived with the same bikes with which we started. All in all, a fairly successful ride. Our newbies got a chance to try some twisties and we all had a chance to meet face to face and ride some interesting, fairly close-in roads. Thanks for the route, Todd. Maybe next weekend... LindaT. 95 F3 Purple Haze From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 11:00:40 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA24044; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:00:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA21595; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:00:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from server4.illuminet.net by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA27755; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:00:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from illuminet.net (aln-63-192.jmb.bah.com [156.80.63.192]) by server4.illuminet.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA01332; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:04:24 -0500 Message-ID: <3482DEFB.3575F986@illuminet.net> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 10:59:56 -0500 From: Leon Begeman X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jcarver@XXXXXX CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: NJ Tpk was: Homemade Electric Vest References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit jcarver@XXXXXX wrote: > I'm back from my Turkey-day trip to NJ and the electric vest worked > extremely well. After a minor break in DE, I ended up making repairs > at my parents house in NJ and determined a probable cause to prevent > it in the future. It was so windy, MC's were banned on the TPK. (Not > that I wanted to go that way on the way up) I've run into this problem once also. Is there an easy way to tell when MC's are banned? The problem I have is that if I ride up to the toll booth and get told that bikes are banned, I can't honestly go to the next entrance and take a ticket from an unmanned window. I think that bikes are class 1 and cars are class 2, meaning that bikes get a break on the toll. Is that correct? Since my destination is usually Northern Bergen County, there aren't any easy routes other than the Turnpike to get there. Leon. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 11:04:59 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA24142; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:04:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA21691; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:04:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from alpha.mcit.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA27877; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:04:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from omzrelay.mcit.com (omzrelay.mcit.com [166.37.204.49]) by alpha.mcit.com (8.8.8/) with ESMTP id LAA09475 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:04:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from imeid03.mcit.com.mci.com (imeid03.mcit.com [166.37.221.15]) by omzrelay.mcit.com (8.8.7/) with ESMTP id KAA32181 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:04:08 -0600 (CST) Received: from localHost ([166.41.242.141]) by imeid03.mcit.com.mci.com (Intermail v3.1 117 223) with SMTP id <19971201160406.TBQB18468@[166.41.242.141]> for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:04:06 -0600 Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 11:00 -0500 (EST) From: Todd Peer To: dc-cycles Subject: FYI...MCN WebPage X-Mailer: MailRoom v2.1e Message-Id: <19971201160406.TBQB18468@[166.41.242.141]> MCN is finally on the web. http://www.MCNews.com/ Todd From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 11:16:12 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA24531; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:16:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA22031; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:16:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from dadc012.army.mil by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA28265; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:16:02 -0500 (EST) Received: by Pentagon-DADC012.army.mil with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:16:17 -0500 Message-ID: <915E7359243FD011ACF30000F822DEFA020F89E8@Pentagon-DADC010.army.mil> From: "Dysart, Glenn B., Mr., IMCEN" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, Brian McCoy Subject: RE: Dec 5-7 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:18:36 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) > Alright... seeing as we have such positive turnouts for our group > > rides, I'll just ask now if anyone is free and willing to go any > of > these 3 days. That way we can muck about and not rush it at the > last > minute. As always, the ride will cater towards the slower people > > unless there's a huge turnout - then we have 2 groups. I'll find > a > route (Collin, what's your web page addy again?) - otherwise, I'm > > planning on doing some Skyline Drive/Blueridge over these days. > I might be persuaded into going if I can remove all of the wood from around my bike by then! > > Sheesh, i paid $20 for a year pass and only used it once! I > guess I > need to fit in a few more times before March... > Take a look at that pass again, its good till June of 98. Glenn Dysart DysarGB@XXXXXX 84 V30 Magna > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 11:25:01 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA24819; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:25:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA22348; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:24:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from mrin84.mail.aol.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA28697; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:24:51 -0500 (EST) From: Bmwbobs@XXXXXX Received: (from root@localhost) by mrin84.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id LAA21296; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:24:12 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:24:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <971201112212_131957349@mrin84.mail.aol.com> To: cfagan@XXXXXX cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Service Seminars at Bob's BMW In a message dated 97-11-28 23:49:18 EST, cfagan@XXXXXX writes: << dc-cycles@XXXXXX >> Thanks for the interest. We will keep you in mind for this year as things try to take shape. Bob Henig From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 11:48:41 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA25883; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:48:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA22751; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:48:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.visa.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA29824; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:48:13 -0500 (EST) Received: by portal.visa.com id AA13638 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for dc-cycles@XXXXXX); Mon, 1 Dec 1997 08:48:11 -0800 Received: by portal.visa.com (Protected-side Proxy Mail Agent-1); Mon, 1 Dec 1997 08:48:11 -0800 Message-Id: From: "Jordan, Michael" To: "'Dc-Cycles (E-mail)'" Subject: RE: Ride Report 11/29 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 08:48:28 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 Encoding: 8 TEXT >And almost immediately, had to pull a U-ey to get back on course. >The tradition is upheld. A society without traditions has no soul... Michael J. > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 11:51:54 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA26116; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:51:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA22859; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:51:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from DONALD.CDER.FDA.GOV by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA00171; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:51:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from mr.cder.fda.gov by fdaserv.cder.fda.gov (PMDF V5.1-8 #21467) id <01IQNPTKA05C8ZI07N@XXXXXX> for dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:51:46 EST Received: with PMDF-MR; Mon, 01 Dec 1997 11:43:47 -0500 (EST) MR-Received: by mta DONALD; Relayed; Mon, 01 Dec 1997 11:43:47 -0500 Alternate-recipient: prohibited Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 11:44:06 -0500 (EST) From: Kirk Roy Subject: Re: Ride Report 11/29 To: DC Cycles Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 11:44:07 -0500 (EST) Importance: normal Priority: normal Sensitivity: Company-Confidential UA-content-id: E1200IDF2IYRG X400-MTS-identifier: [;74341110217991/2149973@FDACD] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 1 Being unable to grasp names and faces but having less trouble with bikes I tried to match things up. Do I have this right? I'd like to be able to put names with those bikes... Kirk 88 Hawk GT, Tweety >Brian McCoy Honda VF500 >Michael Jordan Suzuki GSX1100 >Louis Caplan Kawasaki Concours? >Sean Sullivan Honda CBR600F3 >Jeannette O'Brien Honda VF500 >Anita Lauro Honda Nighthawk >Peter Hartzler Suzuki Marauder? >Roy Turner Honda CBR600F3 w/chatterbox >Kirk Roy Honda Hawk GT >Randy Dow Kawasaki KLR650 >Collin Fagan Suzuki GSXR750 >Todd Peer Honda Nighthawk >Mike Cruz Honda CBR600F3 >Linda Tanner Honda CBR600F3 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 12:08:22 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA27150; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:08:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA23465; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:08:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from mtigwc05.worldnet.att.net by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA01520; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:08:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from default ([12.68.75.36]) by mtigwc05.worldnet.att.net (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA6906; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 17:04:32 +0000 Reply-To: From: "kevin thomas" To: "Brian McCoy" , Subject: Re: Dec 5-7 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:01:44 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19971201170431.AAA6906@default> Hey, y'all-- I'm going to get a reputation for saying I'll go on these rides and then not going. Well, I probably already have one...... FWIW, I'll try real hard to make this one. Later Kevin He who says it cannot be done should not interrupt him who is doing it. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 12:19:27 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA27521; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:19:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA23821; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:19:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from beta.mcit.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA02006; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:18:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from ndcrelay.mcit.com (ndcrelay.mcit.com [166.37.172.49]) by beta.mcit.com (8.8.8/) with ESMTP id LAA20722 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:18:23 -0600 (CST) Received: from imeid04.mcit.com.mci.com (imeid04.mcit.com [166.37.221.16]) by ndcrelay.mcit.com (8.8.7/) with ESMTP id MAA10420 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:18:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from LJTanner.mcit.com ([166.32.84.59]) by imeid04.mcit.com.mci.com (Intermail v3.1 117 223) with SMTP id <19971201171822.KXHE32664@XXXXXX> for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:18:22 -0600 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:18:20 -0500 Message-ID: <01BCFE53.3671CE60.linda.tanner@mci.com> From: Linda Tanner To: "Dc-Cycles (E-mail)" Subject: RE: Ride Report 11/29 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:18:18 -0500 Organization: MCI Telecommunications X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jeez, you're good. I wish I could have included this with my ride report. Next time I'll take notes. LindaT. 95 F3 Purple Haze -----Original Message----- From: Kirk Roy [SMTP:ROYK@XXXXXX] Sent: Monday, December 01, 1997 11:44 AM To: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Ride Report 11/29 Being unable to grasp names and faces but having less trouble with bikes I tried to match things up. Do I have this right? I'd like to be able to put names with those bikes... Kirk 88 Hawk GT, Tweety >Brian McCoy Honda VF500 >Michael Jordan Suzuki GSX1100 >Louis Caplan Kawasaki Concours? >Sean Sullivan Honda CBR600F3 >Jeannette O'Brien Honda VF500 >Anita Lauro Honda Nighthawk >Peter Hartzler Suzuki Marauder? >Roy Turner Honda CBR600F3 w/chatterbox >Kirk Roy Honda Hawk GT >Randy Dow Kawasaki KLR650 >Collin Fagan Suzuki GSXR750 >Todd Peer Honda Nighthawk >Mike Cruz Honda CBR600F3 >Linda Tanner Honda CBR600F3 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 12:34:36 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA28002; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:34:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA24185; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:34:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from germany.it.earthlink.net by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA02629; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:34:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from [153.35.88.167] (1Cust167.tnt4.tco2.da.uu.net [153.35.88.167]) by germany.it.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA26635 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:34:15 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: level_5_ltd@XXXXXX Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:34:17 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Alan Lapp Subject: Re: Homemade Electric Vest >I'm back from my Turkey-day trip to NJ and the electric vest worked >extremely well. After a minor break in DE, I ended up making repairs >at my parents house in NJ and determined a probable cause to prevent >it in the future. It was so windy, MC's were banned on the TPK. (Not >that I wanted to go that way on the way up) The "recipe" from the web >was, for the most part, accurate. There were some little things I >learned while constructing my own vest that would be valuable to those >out there who are considering making their own. The difference is >amazing. It's like being in a warm bath vs. swimming in the Arctic >Ocean. It's also nice to be riding and think, "I'm a little chilly; > I think I'll turn my electric vest on." In all seriousness, if >anyone wants to know anything about it send me an e-mail. I also have >a 100' spool of wire left over that I would be willing to sell. > (Newark electronics minimum order is $20, (I think), so I had to >order 2 rolls) Later . . > >--John >B6 Green Hmmm. Some electric chaps would be damn nice. Could you briefly outline material costs and time? I'd appreciate it! Perhaps you could post the URL for the site as well? Sorry if I missed it before. Al level_5_ltd@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 12:40:41 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA28196; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:40:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA24294; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:40:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.clark.net by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA02764; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:40:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from clark.net (louis@XXXXXX [168.143.0.7]) by mail.clark.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA21230 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:40:20 -0500 (EST) From: "Louis F. Caplan" Received: (from louis@localhost) by clark.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA06923 for dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:40:18 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199712011740.MAA06923@clark.net> Subject: Feel good ride on Sat Dec 6 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX (DC-Cycles List) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:40:16 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24alpha3] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all, I enjoyed meeting some of you last Saturday. Even if I did get in the wrong group (I didn't mean to get with the fast group... sorry if I slowed people down behind me). I saw that some of you are already discussing another ride. I'd like to make a suggestion. This Saturday, Cycle Sport (Springfield and Herndon) are continuing a long honored tradition. (Okay, this is the 2nd time they are doing it). It's a morTOYcycle run. I was in this last year. People meet at either of the two locations, and bring a wrapped up toy. We then ride (the long way) to the Salvation Army Xmas HQS in DC and deliver our toys. Last year we got a tour, and they explained how the toys are distributed to families in need. Then they provided some coffee, cookies, and the like. In front of the building there were motorcycles lining both sides of the street and the sidewalks! Afterwards we rode back to Cycle Sports and they had some door prizes to give out. While it may not have been a wild curvy ride, it did feel good at the end (all together now... aawwwwww). I already bought a few toys for this year. I'll be going to the Springfield store, they are meeting at 10:30 am on Saturday. The Salvation Army would like the gifts to be wrapped with a tag telling if it is for a boy or girl and what age. For more info, here are the phone numbers: Cycle Sports Springfield - 703-451-9330 Cycle Sports Herndon - 703-471-6990 BTW: I don't work for either of these places, I just think it's a nice thing they are doing and wanted to spread the word. Louis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Louis Caplan | DoD #1754 AMA #269779 | www.clark.net/pub/louis/cycle.htm Alexandria, VA | COG #2894 | louis@XXXXXX | '98 Kawasaki Concours | Mean Green Scream Machine From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 13:32:07 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA29873; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:32:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA25917; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:31:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from mrin45.mail.aol.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA04490; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:31:45 -0500 (EST) From: WantAZX6@XXXXXX Received: (from root@localhost) by mrin45.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id NAA25504 for dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:31:13 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:31:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <971201133113_1806923428@mrin45.mail.aol.com> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Rides?? Could some nice person let me know what the upcoming rides are?????? Thanks in advance, The newbie on the rocket, Jack From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 13:36:08 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA00030; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:36:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA26047; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:36:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from mrin47.mail.aol.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA04643; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:35:59 -0500 (EST) From: WantAZX6@XXXXXX Received: (from root@localhost) by mrin47.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id NAA27659 for dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:35:20 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:35:20 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <971201132709_-1973537757@mrin47> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Ride Report 11/29 Hey yall.....time to add another biker to the list. I will be joining the group rides shortly (or maybe not so shortly). Heres my personal info....... Name: Jack Pethtal Home: Alexandria VA (Mt Vernon Area) Age: 21 almost 22 Ride: 97 Green Suzuki TL1000S Email: WantA ZX6@XXXXXX (by the way, the email address came b4 the TL) Work: US Dept of Health and Human Services Rockville MD Job: Network Administrator I hope to go on some rides with yall soon.....as long as Collin ISNT leading....HAHAHA (inside joke) Jack From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 13:39:07 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA00083; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:39:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA26159; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:38:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.clark.net by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA04752; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:38:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from clark.net (louis@XXXXXX [168.143.0.7]) by mail.clark.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA13490; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:38:47 -0500 (EST) From: "Louis F. Caplan" Received: (from louis@localhost) by clark.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA19716; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:38:46 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199712011838.NAA19716@clark.net> Subject: Re: NJ Tpk was: Homemade Electric Vest To: mrider@XXXXXX (Leon Begeman) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:38:46 -0500 (EST) Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX (DC-Cycles List) In-Reply-To: <3482DEFB.3575F986@illuminet.net> from "Leon Begeman" at Dec 1, 97 10:59:56 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24alpha3] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > I think that bikes are class 1 and cars are class 2, meaning that bikes > get a break on the toll. Is that correct? Wasn't for me. I got charged full car rate everytime I was on the bike. Anyone know if they still clock the tickets to see your average speed? I've heard of people getting speeding tickets when they exit because their average speed was too high. (I was once advised to slow down on the NY Throughway when the guy looked at the time I got on, but other than that I didn't get any grief) Louis From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 13:44:29 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA00296; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:44:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA26341; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:44:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from sundown.northgrum.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA05042; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:44:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from puff.northgrum.com (puff.northgrum.com [157.127.103.139]) by sundown.northgrum.com (8.8.4/8.7.1) with ESMTP id KAA06432 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:44:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from xcgca004.northgrum.com ([157.127.103.103]) by puff.northgrum.com (8.8.4/8.7.1) with ESMTP id JAA15519 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:29:53 -0800 (PST) Received: by XCGCA004 with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) id ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:29:07 -0800 Message-ID: <11D743514607D011A15500805FEA34648B8D5E@xcgva001.grumman.com> From: "Meier, Christopher" To: "'dc-cycles'" Subject: New MC Thread ... Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:28:55 -0800 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/plain Ladies and Gentleman, I direct your attention to Page A24 of Today's Washington Post. More specifically to a Letter to the Editor entitled "Speed Kills". Judith Lee Stone, President, Advocates for Highway and Auto Safety, makes what I believe to be a weak attempt to refute a previous article by George Will, in which he discussed the raising of speed limits (on interstates), and how they appear to be loosely or even unrelated to traffic fatalities. I guess what sets me off about her comments, is that she "blindly" cites numbers with nary a mention of average speeds, traveling times or driving distances/conditions. She implies that fatalities are up solely based on changing the signs and not at all related to the 85% rule and other traffic idioms. No mention is made of any intervening variables and little proof is given that raising the limits actually show any correlation to increased traffic fatalities. The type of reaction she gave really chaffs my butt and I would like to hear everyone else's opinion on the subject. Perhaps if I get enough responses (some of which hopefully will be statistically valid), I will write a response and submit it to the Post. Here's our chance, let's hear it. Now back to your regularly scheduled ... Later, chris ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------ Christopher A. Meier meierch@XXXXXX Northrop Grumman Corporation, Washington DC, USA 1994 RF900R AMA #470094 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 13:47:04 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA00455; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:47:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA26368; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:47:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from server4.illuminet.net by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id NAA05198; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:46:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from illuminet.net (aln-63-192.jmb.bah.com [156.80.63.192]) by server4.illuminet.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA06338; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:50:50 -0500 Message-ID: <348305FD.63C25F8F@illuminet.net> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 13:46:21 -0500 From: Leon Begeman X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Louis F. Caplan" CC: DC-Cycles List Subject: Re: NJ Tpk was: Homemade Electric Vest References: <199712011838.NAA19716@clark.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've heard that rumor as well, but the couple of times that I've gone through without stopping, nothing happened. Leon. Louis F. Caplan wrote: > > > > I think that bikes are class 1 and cars are class 2, meaning that bikes > > get a break on the toll. Is that correct? > > Wasn't for me. I got charged full car rate everytime I was on the bike. > > Anyone know if they still clock the tickets to see your average speed? I've > heard of people getting speeding tickets when they exit because their average > speed was too high. (I was once advised to slow down on the NY Throughway > when the guy looked at the time I got on, but other than that I didn't get > any grief) > > Louis From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 14:20:06 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA01578; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:20:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA27217; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:19:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA06630; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:19:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from default ([12.68.77.35]) by mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA21635; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 19:19:16 +0000 Reply-To: From: "kevin thomas" To: "Meier, Christopher" , "'dc-cycles'" Subject: Re: New MC Thread ... Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:16:29 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19971201191915.AAA21635@default> Chris-- What a load of shite. Fatality rates are down. We all know the only relevant way to express this is with a rate, like deaths per million miles driven. Automobile deaths are 60000 times greater than they were in 1860. However, deaths per million miles driven are only something like 2.5 times higher. The letter-writer you mention knows this, (or should) but it does not support her agenda. It would not do her any good to recognize that there are more cars this year than last year, and the year before, ad infinitum, and they are driven more miles by more people. Of course more people (in absolute numbers) will die. If more people had bathtubs, more people would die in them. In 1860, there were no cars and no highways, so nobody could die as a result of them. However, deaths per million miles driven have been decreasing steadily since they first started counting (If I recall correctly), even though there are many more people, driving many more cars, many more miles, and increasing every year. I honestly believe that my one individual vote in this, the greatest country on earth, with the best political system on earth, is absolutely worthless. My one individual campaign contribution dollar is worthless as well. The only way to wield power is as a collective. I will give my money to an organization that can effectively combine my money with others' money to influence politicians' actions. I will ask that I be counted among the members of that organization, who will, en masse, vote to support politicians who represent our views. That mass action and combined financial power is the only way to frighten or bribe our elected representatives into doing what we want. Unfortunately, this is not an original idea. Insurers and chicken-littles make a lot of money ( _our_ money) by spouting this crap and outbidding us for the purchase of our representatives. I don't know the answer to this. I certainly wouldn't trade our flawed system for any other one humankind has known thus far. That's all I have to say about that. Kevin He who says it cannot be done should not interrupt him who is doing it. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 14:21:29 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA01609; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:21:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA27268; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:21:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA06705; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:21:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from default ([12.68.77.35]) by mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA22486; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 19:20:51 +0000 Reply-To: From: "kevin thomas" To: "Leon Begeman" , "Louis F. Caplan" Cc: "DC-Cycles List" Subject: Re: NJ Tpk was: Homemade Electric Vest Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:18:04 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19971201192050.AAA22486@default> Y'all-- I, too have heard that rumor. Never been hassled on NJ or any other Turnpike, tho my average speed is always well over the limit. Later Kevin He who says it cannot be done should not interrupt him who is doing it. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 14:42:34 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA02304; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:42:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA27761; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:42:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from norway.it.earthlink.net by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA07535; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:42:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from earthlink.net (ip7.herndon7.va.pub-ip.psi.net [38.12.5.7]) by norway.it.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA18848 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:42:09 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3483133A.A60C360B@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 14:42:51 -0500 From: "R. K. Dow" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: DC Cycles Subject: Computer motorcycle games Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------653FF062F3ADB45054529A35" --------------653FF062F3ADB45054529A35 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Fellow list readers: FYI Below are two links for motorcycle computer game demos--try before you buy. The games would make good Xmas gifts or something to do when the weather is not conducive to riding. DO NOT attempt to compete against teenagers. The following link is for "ManxTT Super Bike". http://www.download.com/PC/Result/TitleDetail/0,4,0-31591-g,501000.html The next link is for "Moto Racer". I just got the full game and can tell that I will never be able to proceed to the advanced tracks. To advance you have to place in top three places in the first four tracks--two road, one motocross, one snow/ice. http://www.ea.com/eastudios/eastudios.html - Select "Moto Racer" - Select "Demo". Enjoy. --------------653FF062F3ADB45054529A35 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Fellow list readers:

FYI

Below are two links for motorcycle computer game demos--try before you buy. The games would make good Xmas gifts or something to do when the weather is not conducive to riding. DO NOT attempt to compete against teenagers.

The following link is for "ManxTT Super Bike".

http://www.download.com/PC/Result/TitleDetail/0,4,0-31591-g,501000.html

The next link is for "Moto Racer". I just got the full game and can tell that I will never be able to proceed to the advanced tracks. To advance you have to place in top three places in the first four tracks--two road, one motocross, one snow/ice.

http://www.ea.com/eastudios/eastudios.html
- Select "Moto Racer"
- Select "Demo".

Enjoy. --------------653FF062F3ADB45054529A35-- From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 14:49:38 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA02558; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:49:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA28013; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:49:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from skippy.umiacs.umd.edu by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA07738; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:49:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp1.erols.com by skippy.umiacs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id OAA02705; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:49:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from BERGIE.PARAGON ([207.152.132.67] (may be forged)) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA13423 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:53:27 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199712011953.OAA13423@smtp1.erols.com> From: "Bergie Frazier Jr" To: "DC Cycles" Subject: This weekend Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:46:58 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Count me in for any group rides this coming weekend! December 6th or 7th.. I've missed the last few, so I definatley want in on the next one.. Berg/ZX11 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 15:15:17 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA03407; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:15:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA28766; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:15:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from piglet.toward.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA08743; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:15:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from jil-c_norloff [206.239.251.201] by piglet.toward.com (SMTPD32-4.02) id AAB913D0126; Mon, 01 Dec 1997 15:14:49 EST5EDT Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19971201151422.0096d270@mail.toward.com> X-Sender: cnorloff@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 15:14:22 -0500 To: From: Chris Norloff Subject: Re: New MC Thread ... In-Reply-To: <19971201191915.AAA21635@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 02:16 PM 12/1/97 -0500, kevin thomas wrote: > However, deaths per million miles driven have been >decreasing steadily since they first started counting (If I recall >correctly), even though there are many more people, driving many more cars, >many more miles, and increasing every year. That's what I recall from the studies I've seen. As the states have increased their speed limits, some states have had higher accident rates and some have had lower. There are so many confounding factors (factors that have not been controlled) that you can get lots of different conclusions, depending on what you look at. The over-riding conclusion seems to be that with low Interstate speed limits, traffic moves off onto the secondary roads, which are well agreed to be more "dangerous". With higher Interstate speed limits, traffic moves back onto the Interstates -- this typically (not always) results in MORE accidents on Interstates, but a LOWER overall accident rate, since there's less traffic on the more dangerous secondary roads. The Washington Post letter writer gave two suspicious facts -- fatality rates increased 12% on Interstates when the state-wide average increased only 6%. This reeks of manipulation, since it speaks of averages, and the state-wide average presumably includes the Interstates in that state. It's entirely feasible that the Interstate rates increased, the secondary road rates DECREASED, and the average is a small increase. In addition, the letter writer addressed only one state, with that fatality rate increase, and did not mention the states that have had rate decreases. True evaluations of all facts like these were the bases of an FHWA (Fed Hwys) report, as I recall, that showed how increasing speed limits on Interstates would save lives. The report was not widely disseminated, for some reason. :-P The letter-writer's appeal about Montana daytime speed limits and the "carnage on the roads" speaks to sound bites rather than scientific analysis. Just as a horrific airplane accident with 200 fatalities rates front page coverage but 100 deaths a day on highways do not rate front page coverage, so too do terrible accidents on Interstates rate front page coverage, and lower average fatality rates do not rate attention. It's hard to fight letters like this because analysis requires original research, and the reports themselves, not some cleansed summaries. Analysis also requires trying to figure out what you don't know (like the above example when the letter writer didn't compare Interstates to secondary roads, but compared Interstates to Interstates + all other roads). Look for improper comparisons (like above) and look for changing bases of evaluation -- such as, total fatalities, fatalities per registered vehicle, and fatalities per mile driven. good luck, Chris Norloff From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 15:29:29 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA03821; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:29:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA29182; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:29:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from beta.mcit.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA09261; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:29:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from ndcrelay.mcit.com (ndcrelay.mcit.com [166.37.172.49]) by beta.mcit.com (8.8.8/) with ESMTP id OAA07020 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:28:22 -0600 (CST) Received: from imeid03.mcit.com.mci.com (imeid03.mcit.com [166.37.221.15]) by ndcrelay.mcit.com (8.8.7/) with ESMTP id PAA13445 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:28:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localHost ([166.41.242.141]) by imeid03.mcit.com.mci.com (Intermail v3.1 117 223) with SMTP id <19971201202819.VAGF18468@[166.41.242.141]>; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:28:19 -0600 Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 15:19 -0500 (EST) From: Todd Peer To: Linda Tanner CC: "Dc-Cycles (E-mail)" Subject: Re: Ride Report 11/29 X-Mailer: MailRoom v2.1e Message-Id: <19971201202819.VAGF18468@[166.41.242.141]> Hey Linda, that is a good write up! I nominate Linda Tanner as our official DC-Cycles journalist/coorespondent! Any "here, here's?" ................ As for the fast group, well? Ok, I'll add a few bits for your imagination. We pretty much rode pace up to the first stop. I had never been on Hampton road, but plan to return when it is safe from beat-up old vans carrying christmas trees at 25mph!! Pretty twisty. Chapel road is a favorite of mine, and I was glad to turn some of you on to it. The best part, IMO, is the sudden drop-off followed by a less severe one and another more severe one....and at the bottom of the hill, a quick right, straight away, and quick left....yeeeeHaaww! After we left the first stop, the pace picked up a wee bit. At one point, coming down Popes Head (another nice road) and just past the first turn at the rumble bumps, I got in a little to hot on the second. This is a quick 10mph 'S' turn that you should really try and do at 10mph. I think I was up around 30 for the second bit and, er, well lost a little traction in the rear. Ended up standing up and braking across the double yellow....Yow! Through and up to Evergreen Mills road we kept a consistant 10-20mph over the limit. But that apparently wasn't fast enough for one Suzuki owner we all know....Collin! Blows by me (leading) and I just have to _try_ and follow. Could'a done it with a little (A LOT) more horsepower, but had to settle for just under a buck. Damn rev-limiter kept hounding me. My fault since I keep making believe I have more than 8,500 available rpms. We got to the rt 15 turn up into Leesburg and decided to try some other (less for me and more familiar to Collin) roads that would lead us around and into Leesburg again. We stopped once for some to go pee, and promptly lost Randy. We looked around and in front of that building, but to no avail. From here, we took off for a quick round'about that included passing an old pickup with a Harley sticker in the rear. I think he thought he was riding, because man he was keeping it around 75mph =:0..."I ain't let'n no jap-crap pass me by damnit!" We made it by and found our way to Paynes, where Collin reported to all that he had nearly high-sided at...mumble mumble..mph! Scarry! Shot some pool and socialised for about an hour/half and split for home. A good day. Todd _____________________________________________________________ Linda T's account..... __________________________ The day dawned cloudy, dreary and warm 50s, but I (who have implicit faith in weather predictors - yeah right) loaded up the bike and set off into the great unknown. Ok, it was Alexandria. When I arrived at the McDonalds, there were already 3 riders there - Brian McCoy, Michael Jordan and Louis Caplan. Thereafter, another 10 riders showed (in no particular order): Sean Sullivan Jeannette O'Brien Anita Lauro Peter Hartzler Roy Turner Kirk Roy Randy Dow Collin Fagan Todd Peer Mike Cruz for a total of 14 bikes (4 F3s) We broke up into two groups. Todd Peer (who so graciously constructed the route and made copies and everything) led the fast group. Roy Turner led the slow group. I rode sweep on the slower group which consisted of self-proclaimed newbies of Jeannette, Anita and Mike Cruz. Peter Hartzler also opted for the leisurely pace. We set off on S. Kings Highway. Left onto Telegraph Rd. At Route 1, jogged onto Old Colchester Rd. Roy (being very familiar with the road) rode on ahead at a spirited pace, while the rest of us led by me ( :-o) followed. Roy took over again (thank god) at Gunston Hall Rd. We continued on to Furnace Rd. Left onto Lorton Rd where we became confused and took a little excursion. After turning around in one of the Lorton Prison parking lots (and getting some interested looks), we retraced our route to find where we went wrong. The next wrong thing we did was listening to me for directions. After much more time spent scenic touring Fairfax county, we stopped at a gas station with maps and proceeded to get back on course. The route should have been Furnace, left on Lorton, then right onto Furnace again, right onto Hooes Rd, left onto Silverbrook, left onto Rt 123. We did it a little differently, but did make it to Rt 123. Right onto Hampton Rd, left onto Henderson, right onto Wolf Run Shoals Rd (lovely homes on the large side). Straight at Clifton Rd, Left onto Chapel Rd and right into a parking lot in Clifton where the fast group was lounging around, looking bored, waiting for us to show. We all stood around congratulating one another on the successful completion of the first leg of the ride (we DID get there afterall). After a short rest, we took off again. Roy switched off with Michael Jordan and we were off. And almost immediately, had to pull a U-ey to get back on course. The tradition is upheld. Main Street, straight through Newman Rd, left onto Colchester Rd, left onto Popes Head Rd, left onto Clifton Rd and quick right onto Compton (well almost, just a short excursion here). Jog on Compton Rd at Union Mill, straight at Rt 28, straight at Ordway, under 66 and a right onto Bull Run Post Office Rd. Right onto Rt 29, left onto Pleasant Valley, left onto Herndon Ave, left onto Rt 50. We stopped here for a confab and had a couple of incidents. A slight tip over (we won't mention any names, but it wasn't me) and a dead bike on restart. Anita's new baby was showing no indicator lights when the key was turned. I got out my trusty multimeter and we proceeded to test her fuses. Turns out it was just a loose battery connection, but I was prepared for the worst. All fixed, and we were off again. Right onto Rt 606, left onto Evergreen Mill Rd (Rt 621). We skipped a stop in Arcola and continued with a left onto Rt 15 and on into Leesburg where we stopped at Paynes and told lies and shot pool. If the fast group had any adventures, they kept mum. Perhaps someone will report. Louis Caplan had to leave the ride because of prior obligations and I understand that the fast group abandoned Randy Dow when he went off for gas. They're really NOT prejudiced against dual sporters. Sorry about that, Randy. At least, those of us in the leisurely group arrived with the same bikes with which we started. All in all, a fairly successful ride. Our newbies got a chance to try some twisties and we all had a chance to meet face to face and ride some interesting, fairly close-in roads. Thanks for the route, Todd. Maybe next weekend... LindaT. 95 F3 Purple Haze From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 15:36:51 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA04149; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:36:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA29426; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:36:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from mrin38.mail.aol.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id PAA09585; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:36:44 -0500 (EST) From: WantAZX6@XXXXXX Received: (from root@localhost) by mrin38.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id PAA24495 for dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:36:13 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:36:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <971201153613_496286727@mrin38> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: This weekend In a message dated 97-12-01 14:58:24 EST, you write: Count me in too!! Jack From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 16:02:16 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA05114; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:02:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA29973; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:00:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from mrin47.mail.aol.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA10348; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:00:34 -0500 (EST) From: AWheat@XXXXXX Received: (from root@localhost) by mrin47.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id QAA24894 for dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:00:01 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:00:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <971201155642_-153738303@mrin47> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Speaking of Collin Leading...(meant to be humorous) In a message dated 97-12-01 13:43:49 EST, you write: > > Hey yall.....time to add another biker to the list. I will be joining the > group rides shortly (or maybe not so shortly). Heres my personal info....... (snip) > I hope to go on some rides with yall soon.....as long as Collin ISNT > leading....HAHAHA (inside joke) > > Jack Speaking of Collin leading, is your bike OK? (referring to inside joke as mentioned above.) I'm sure a few others on the DC Cycles list could share in your experience following Collin. :) Consider it an initiation ritual (just kidding). But just imagine what would have happened if you followed him into the turn AFTER the rain started that day. Good to see you're still looking to ride, but next time it's somebody else's turn, right Jack? he he he Alan AWheat@XXXXXX http://members.aol.com/AWheat/nova_mgr.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 16:14:37 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA05612; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:14:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA00338; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:13:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from alpha.mcit.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA10948; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:13:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from ndcrelay.mcit.com (ndcrelay.mcit.com [166.37.172.49]) by alpha.mcit.com (8.8.8/) with ESMTP id QAA18038; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:12:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from imeid02.mcit.com.mci.com (imeid02.mcit.com [166.37.221.14]) by ndcrelay.mcit.com (8.8.7/) with ESMTP id QAA17792; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:12:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localHost ([166.41.242.141]) by imeid02.mcit.com.mci.com (Intermail v3.1 117 223) with SMTP id <19971201211232.LZDA32510@[166.41.242.141]>; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:12:32 -0600 Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 16:03 -0500 (EST) From: Todd Peer To: "Meier, Christopher" CC: "'dc-cycles'" Subject: Speed Kills Was: New MC Thread ... X-Mailer: MailRoom v2.1e Message-Id: <19971201211232.LZDA32510@[166.41.242.141]> At best, Ms. Stone has perported to argue in favor of her bias using bad technique. The same bad technique she accuses Mr. Will of using. If I had the time and/or energy, I'd drill holes in all her shoddy sylogisms. But I don't. However, for your amusement here is the letter Chris Meier referred to. Todd -----------Begin ---------------------- Speed Kills Monday, December 1, 1997; Page A24 The Washington Post In his column "Why Speed Doesn't Always Kill" [op-ed, Nov. 6], George Will concludes that higher speed limits have resulted in safer highways. Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, in 1996, the year speed limits went up, the number of fatalities for the country as a whole increased. Mr. Will says fatalities per vehicle mile traveled, what experts call the "fatality rate" -- and not the number of fatalities -- is the critical measurement. Yet even by this yardstick, the nation's highways have not become safer. If his thesis is correct, the fatality rate should have gone down. However, the fatality rate for 1996 was the same as that of the previous four years. The rate remained at 1.7 fatalities for every million vehicle miles traveled since 1992, before the repeal of the national speed limit. Moreover, a recent Insurance Institute for Highway Safety study of the first dozen states to raise their speed limits concludes that fatalities rose by 12 percent on Interstates and freeways subject to higher speed limits, and by 6 percent on all roads in those states. Higher speed limits are part of the problem, not the solution. In 1974, when the national speed limit became permanent, 9,000 fewer people were killed in motor vehicle crashes than were killed the year before. The National Academy of Sciences concluded in a 1985 study that most of the lives saved that year -- as many as 5,000 -- were the direct result of the lower national speed limit. In fact, the academy said that the national speed limit saved between 2,000 and 4,000 lives each year in the 1970s and early 1980s. Mr. Will puts aside these impressive, real-world facts, instead relying on the theory of economists Charles Lave and Patrick Elias. However, if their theory is to be believed, more people should have been killed in 1974, not fewer. Then, in 1987, when speed limits were increased to 65 mph on most rural interstates, studies by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and others proved that highways subject to these higher speed limits experienced a 30 percent increase in fatalities. Since the 1995 repeal of the national speed limit, 36 states have raised their limits. A look at state fatality data on roads posted at higher speed limits shows considerable increases in deaths. In Texas, for example, fatalities increased nearly 18 percent after the speed limit was raised to 70 mph on thousands of miles of highways. In fact, state officials were so concerned by the additional carnage that they held public meetings and have conducted additional traffic studies. As a result, the Texas Transportation Commission recently approved an emergency rule to allow department of transportation engineers more flexibility in recommending lower speeds to the commission, and officials have cut the speed limit on many miles of state roads. A similar situation arose in Montana, which opted to eliminate its daytime speed limit and institute a limit of 65 mph at night. But the state legislature is considering reinstating a daytime speed limit after a 30 percent jump in traffic fatalities was reported in the first eight months of this year. Montana citizens support the measure by a 2-to-1 margin. Many other states, including California, New Mexico, Kansas, Nebraska, Missouri and South Dakota have reported similar results regarding the lethal effects of higher speed limits. Mr. Will should have examined more closely the overwhelming evidence that increased speed limits lead to more deaths and injuries before he rushed to his conclusion based on a theory that ignores the facts. Mr. Will ends his column by stating that the speed-limit story is a "cautionary tale about the complexity of discerning reality in a welter of statistics." He should be the first to consider his own advice. The fact remains that speed kills. JUDITH LEE STONE President Advocates for Highway and Auto Safety Washington --------------End -------------- Message-ID: <11D743514607D011A15500805FEA34648B8D5E@xcgva001.grumman.com> From: "Meier, Christopher" To: "'dc-cycles'" Subject: New MC Thread ... Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:28:55 -0800 Ladies and Gentleman, I direct your attention to Page A24 of Today's Washington Post. More specifically to a Letter to the Editor entitled "Speed Kills". Judith Lee Stone, President, Advocates for Highway and Auto Safety, makes what I believe to be a weak attempt to refute a previous article by George Will, in which he discussed the raising of speed limits (on interstates), and how they appear to be loosely or even unrelated to traffic fatalities. I guess what sets me off about her comments, is that she "blindly" cites numbers with nary a mention of average speeds, traveling times or driving distances/conditions. She implies that fatalities are up solely based on changing the signs and not at all related to the 85% rule and other traffic idioms. No mention is made of any intervening variables and little proof is given that raising the limits actually show any correlation to increased traffic fatalities. The type of reaction she gave really chaffs my butt and I would like to hear everyone else's opinion on the subject. Perhaps if I get enough responses (some of which hopefully will be statistically valid), I will write a response and submit it to the Post. Here's our chance, let's hear it. Now back to your regularly scheduled ... Later, chris ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------ Christopher A. Meier meierch@XXXXXX Northrop Grumman Corporation, Washington DC, USA 1994 RF900R AMA #470094 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 16:24:28 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA05962; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:24:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA00535; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:22:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from PASHA.COM by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA11266; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:22:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from PASHA-Message_Server by PASHA.COM with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 01 Dec 1997 16:17:43 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 16:22:01 -0500 From: Sean Sullivan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Ride Report Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Re: Ride Report I had a blast and a half with everyone on Saturday. Nice job with the route, Todd. Those were some great roads. I can do a ride this Saturday morning. Unfortunately, I will have to peel off by about 1 pm. Sean '95 CBR F3 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 16:29:38 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA06215; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:29:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA00704; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:28:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from beta.mcit.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id QAA11452; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:28:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from omzrelay.mcit.com (omzrelay.mcit.com [166.37.204.49]) by beta.mcit.com (8.8.8/) with ESMTP id PAA29437; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:27:34 -0600 (CST) Received: from imeid04.mcit.com.mci.com (imeid04.mcit.com [166.37.221.16]) by omzrelay.mcit.com (8.8.7/) with ESMTP id PAA10310; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:27:33 -0600 (CST) Received: from localHost ([166.41.242.141]) by imeid04.mcit.com.mci.com (Intermail v3.1 117 223) with SMTP id <19971201212733.MRQK32664@[166.41.242.141]>; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 15:27:33 -0600 Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 16:20 -0500 (EST) From: Todd Peer To: "kevin thomas" CC: "Meier, Christopher" , "'dc-cycles'" Subject: Re: New MC Thread ... X-Mailer: MailRoom v2.1e Message-Id: <19971201212733.MRQK32664@[166.41.242.141]> Kevin bristled...... >I honestly believe that my one individual vote in this, the greatest >country on earth, with the best political system on earth, is absolutely >worthless. My one individual campaign contribution dollar is worthless as well. The only way to wield power is as a collective. I will give my money to an organization that can effectively combine my money with others' money to influence politicians' actions. I will ask that I be counted among the members of that organization, who will, en masse, vote to support politicians who represent our views. That mass action and combined financial power is the only way to frighten or bribe our elected representatives into doing what we want. Unfortunately, this is not an original idea. Insurers and chicken-littles make a lot of money ( _our_ money) by spouting this crap and outbidding us for the purchase of our representatives. > >I don't know the answer to this. I certainly wouldn't trade our flawed >system for any other one humankind has known thus far. > >That's all I have to say about that. Aw, man! C'mon! I was only halfway through singing, "Sweet land of Liberty", and you just broke off! Todd (a true patriot) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 17:34:41 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id RAA08857; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 17:34:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id RAA03731; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 17:34:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from sweden.it.earthlink.net by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id RAA13528; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 17:34:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from [153.34.240.81] (1Cust81.tnt1.tco2.da.uu.net [153.34.240.81]) by sweden.it.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA13420 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:33:57 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: level_5_ltd@XXXXXX Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <11D743514607D011A15500805FEA34648B8D5E@xcgva001.grumman.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 17:34:00 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Alan Lapp Subject: Re: New MC Thread ... >Ladies and Gentleman, > >I direct your attention to Page A24 of Today's Washington Post. More >specifically to a Letter to the Editor entitled "Speed Kills". As anyone with an introductory course in college physics can tell you: It's not speed that kills: it's difference in speed. We should all write in to the OpEd page lambasting this [sneer] individual. Al level_5_ltd@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 23:43:32 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id XAA19477; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 23:43:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id XAA10546; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 23:43:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from UPIMSSMTPSYS04 by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id XAA21399; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 23:43:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from UPIMSSMTPUSR04 - 207.68.143.160 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 20:42:40 -0800 Received: from Pvector.iea.com - 204.227.164.78 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 20:42:39 -0800 From: "Bruce B. Dimon" To: Subject: Re: Multivex mirrors Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 20:41:09 -0800 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Message-ID: <0791139420402c7UPIMSSMTPUSR04@email.msn.com> >I put Multivex mirrors on my Honda GL1500. These are mostly flat in the >middle and gradually curve convex towards the sides. The result is that >there is almost no blind spot. When a car passes me in the left lane, I >can >see his front bumper out of the corner of my eye while facing forward >and >simultaneously see his back bumper in the edge of the mirror. > >Where to buy? Price? > MultiVex 2144 Fordway Toledo, OH 43606 (419) 535-0039 $69.95 = $5 S/H Bruce_Dimon@XXXXXX GL1500 Wing for Go, Not for Show! Coeur d'Alene, Idaho (It's Core-duh-lane, Eye-duh-hoe) Northern Idaho, The Land of Lakes and Lattes! From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 00:29:06 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id AAA20991; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 00:29:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id AAA12700; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 00:28:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from thehub.knight-hub.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id AAA22176; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 00:28:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from newmicronpc (dialpm6-21.knight-hub.com [205.177.16.62]) by thehub.knight-hub.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA05511 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 00:28:56 -0500 Message-Id: <199712020528.AAA05511@thehub.knight-hub.com> From: "mobacc" To: Subject: Re: New MC Thread ... (AMA> on limits) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 00:26:46 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A Monday Night's idle hands -- Thought a swing through the AMA site might ignite light and insight on issue of speed and limits. No such luck. Could find no reference to this issue amid helmet laws and access and more. Hmmm. Wonder about MSF, MIC, MRF, ABATE, etc. with an official bikeposition (and lots of MC data) lurking someplace out there? Ready to ride to our side? Ho Hum. Bedtime. Bill Swanson '96 Vulcan 500 Downtown DC AMA + ---------- > From: Alan Lapp > >Ladies and Gentleman, > > > >I direct your attention to Page A24 of Today's Washington Post. More > >specifically to a Letter to the Editor entitled "Speed Kills". > > As anyone with an introductory course in college physics can tell you: > > It's not speed that kills: it's difference in speed. > > We should all write in to the OpEd page lambasting this [sneer] individual. > > Al > level_5_ltd@XXXXXX > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 09:15:59 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA01313; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:15:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA21682; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:15:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from relay5.UU.NET by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA28765; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:15:43 -0500 (EST) From: Douglas_Brashear@XXXXXX Received: from ams-central-gate-5a.amsinc.com by relay5.UU.NET with SMTP (peer crosschecked as: ams-central-gate-5a.amsinc.com [162.70.34.52]) id QQdser16314; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:15:42 -0500 (EST) Received: by ams-central-gate-5a.amsinc.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) id 85256561.004E3BCC ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:14:31 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: AMSINC To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Message-ID: <85256561.004DD1DD.00@ams-central-gate-5a.amsinc.com> Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:14:11 -0500 Subject: Re: NJ Tpk was: Homemade Electric Vest Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; Boundary="0__=K2wqXJvNsvpTh8s70FxmFFuux1axLeskZNE5dl6kx1gJKLj8Bpr4QVD6" --0__=K2wqXJvNsvpTh8s70FxmFFuux1axLeskZNE5dl6kx1gJKLj8Bpr4QVD6 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Leon (and all), No, bikes don't get a toll break on the NJ Turnpike, at least thats what I've encountered riding between NYC and DC...its always been the same cost for me to ride the bike or drive the car. Bikers get a toll break on all the NYC bridges and tunnels, though...$3 instead of $4. There may be a Turpike Information phone number you can call the day of your trip to find out if there any restrictions for that day. -Doug '81 GS750L douglas_brashear@XXXXXX (Embedded image moved Leon Begeman at to file: AMS-Internet PIC09722.PCX) 12/01/97 07:20 PM To: jcarver @ dcn.att.com at AMS-Internet@ccmail cc: dc-cycles @ cs.umd.edu at AMS-Internet@ccmail (bcc: Douglas Brashear/AMS/AMSINC) Subject: Re: NJ Tpk was: Homemade Electric Vest jcarver@XXXXXX wrote: > I'm back from my Turkey-day trip to NJ and the electric vest worked > extremely well. After a minor break in DE, I ended up making repairs > at my parents house in NJ and determined a probable cause to prevent > it in the future. It was so windy, MC's were banned on the TPK. (Not > that I wanted to go that way on the way up) I've run into this problem once also. Is there an easy way to tell when MC's are banned? The problem I have is that if I ride up to the toll booth and get told that bikes are banned, I can't honestly go to the next entrance and take a ticket from an unmanned window. I think that bikes are class 1 and cars are class 2, meaning that bikes get a break on the toll. Is that correct? Since my destination is usually Northern Bergen County, there aren't any easy routes other than the Turnpike to get there. Leon. 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M2B!4<&L@=V%S.B!(;VUE;6%D92!%;&5C=')I8R!697-T#0I2969E; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:42:43 -0500 Message-ID: <2AA74B7F5518D111ADAF00805F31F84D28D31C@badge.tuckerflyer.com> From: "O'Brien, Jeannette" To: "'Brian McCoy'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Dec 5-7 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:42:30 -0500 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/plain Count me in, too...barring any rain! Just let me know which day... I got my first chance at SLIPPITY SLIP Sunday. I skidded the bike in the damn rain TWICE. Oh well, good practice, I guess, and I didn't drop the bike! - Jeannette > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian McCoy [SMTP:bmccoy@XXXXXX] > Sent: Monday, December 01, 1997 10:07 AM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Dec 5-7 > > > Alright... seeing as we have such positive turnouts for our group > > rides, I'll just ask now if anyone is free and willing to go any > of > these 3 days. That way we can muck about and not rush it at the > last > minute. As always, the ride will cater towards the slower people > > unless there's a huge turnout - then we have 2 groups. I'll find > a > route (Collin, what's your web page addy again?) - otherwise, I'm > > planning on doing some Skyline Drive/Blueridge over these days. > > Sheesh, i paid $20 for a year pass and only used it once! I > guess I > need to fit in a few more times before March... > > > Ride safe, > > Brian > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 09:57:23 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA02573; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:57:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA22523; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:57:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from relay2.smtp.psi.net by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id JAA00379; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:57:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from subspace.tuckerflyer.com by relay2.smtp.psi.net (8.8.5/SMI-5.4-PSI) id JAA24243; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:56:51 -0500 (EST) Received: by subspace.tuckerflyer.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) id ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:55:12 -0500 Message-ID: <2AA74B7F5518D111ADAF00805F31F84D28D31E@badge.tuckerflyer.com> From: "O'Brien, Jeannette" To: "'Linda Tanner'" , "Dc-Cycles (E-mail)" Subject: RE: Ride Report 11/29 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:54:59 -0500 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/plain I had a great time on the ride Saturday! I want to thank Todd & Linda for their patience with this newbie...and thank you Linda for your helpful tips on RELAXING on the curves...it helped A LOT!! I hope to do it again soon! - Jeannette From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 10:17:25 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA03364; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:17:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA23040; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:17:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA00831; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:17:03 -0500 (EST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA11900; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:16:30 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199712021516.JAA11900@dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com> Received: from spg-as83s70.erols.com(207.172.98.150) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma011888; Tue Dec 2 09:16:12 1997 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Bill Schmidt" To: , "mobacc" Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 22:15:54 +0000 Subject: Re: New MC Thread ... (AMA> on limits) Priority: normal In-reply-to: <199712020528.AAA05511@thehub.knight-hub.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) One group that has made this a cause is NMA: http://www.motorists.com/ > A Monday Night's idle hands -- > > Thought a swing through the AMA site might ignite light and insight on > issue of speed and limits. > > No such luck. Could find no reference to this issue amid helmet laws and > access and more. Hmmm. Wonder about MSF, MIC, MRF, ABATE, etc. with an > official bikeposition (and lots of MC data) lurking someplace out there? > Ready to ride to our side? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 10:24:52 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA03621; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:24:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA23184; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:24:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from relay2.smtp.psi.net by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA01027; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:24:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from subspace.tuckerflyer.com by relay2.smtp.psi.net (8.8.5/SMI-5.4-PSI) id KAA03366; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:24:40 -0500 (EST) Received: by subspace.tuckerflyer.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) id ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:20:24 -0500 Message-ID: <2AA74B7F5518D111ADAF00805F31F84D28D326@badge.tuckerflyer.com> From: "O'Brien, Jeannette" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Rain Riding... Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:20:10 -0500 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/plain can you all give me tips as to how to ride differently in the rain? I know a few things, but any tips would help after my two skids Sunday...not fun! - Jeannette From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 10:52:14 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA04514; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:52:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA23890; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:51:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from beta.mcit.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA01933; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:51:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from ndcrelay.mcit.com (ndcrelay.mcit.com [166.37.172.49]) by beta.mcit.com (8.8.8/) with ESMTP id JAA08687; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:51:18 -0600 (CST) Received: from imeid02.mcit.com.mci.com (imeid02.mcit.com [166.37.221.14]) by ndcrelay.mcit.com (8.8.7/) with ESMTP id KAA03831; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:51:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from mci.com ([166.32.114.127]) by imeid02.mcit.com.mci.com (Intermail v3.1 117 223) with ESMTP id <19971202155116.OUVU32510@XXXXXX>; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:51:16 -0600 Message-ID: <34842E75.C53A9077@mci.com> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 10:51:17 -0500 From: Dale Horstman Reply-To: Dale.Horstman@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "O'Brien, Jeannette" CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Rain Riding... References: <2AA74B7F5518D111ADAF00805F31F84D28D326@badge.tuckerflyer.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jeannette, Were your two skids both rear wheel skids? I've found than anything other than very gentle pressure on the rear brake pedal of my bike caused it to lock up when the roads are wet. I've since adjusted the rear brake pedal so it is not so touchy anymore. Dale (the Horkster) O'Brien, Jeannette wrote: > can you all give me tips as to how to ride differently in the rain? I > know a few things, but any tips would help after my two skids > Sunday...not fun! > > - Jeannette From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 10:55:15 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA04590; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:55:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA23979; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:55:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from relay2.smtp.psi.net by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id KAA01993; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:55:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from subspace.tuckerflyer.com by relay2.smtp.psi.net (8.8.5/SMI-5.4-PSI) id KAA16915; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:54:52 -0500 (EST) Received: by subspace.tuckerflyer.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) id ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:53:17 -0500 Message-ID: <2AA74B7F5518D111ADAF00805F31F84D28D32C@badge.tuckerflyer.com> From: "O'Brien, Jeannette" To: "'Dale.Horstman@XXXXXX'" Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Rain Riding... Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:53:03 -0500 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/plain Actually, I stupidly did NOT use the rear brake, I think that's why the back tire skidded the first time. The second time I was just forced to stop too entirely quickly for the wet conditions... I was told later to use both brakes but very gently, is that true? I'm usually pretty light on the rear anyway since the MSF class taught me it locks up so easily...I guess I learned something(?)!! - J From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 11:06:14 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA05221; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:06:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA24414; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:06:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from alpha.mcit.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA02721; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:05:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from omzrelay.mcit.com (omzrelay.mcit.com [166.37.204.49]) by alpha.mcit.com (8.8.8/) with ESMTP id LAA12382; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:04:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from imeid04.mcit.com.mci.com (imeid04.mcit.com [166.37.221.16]) by omzrelay.mcit.com (8.8.7/) with ESMTP id KAA30032; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:04:24 -0600 (CST) Received: from localHost ([166.41.242.141]) by imeid04.mcit.com.mci.com (Intermail v3.1 117 223) with SMTP id <19971202160421.BHRS455@[166.41.242.141]>; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:04:21 -0600 Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 10:59 -0500 (EST) From: Todd Peer To: "O'Brien, Jeannette" CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Rain Riding... X-Mailer: MailRoom v2.1e Message-Id: <19971202160421.BHRS455@[166.41.242.141]> First off, go a little slower in corners. Avoid wet leaves, obvious oil slicks, white(yellow) lettering and lines, and the snottie stuff. Snotties are the tar that road maintenance spills into cracks in the asphalt. On poorly maintained roads they're like black snakes all over the road. And on hot days, they're just as slick as in rain. Check the tread on the outside edge of your tires. Good? Good. Bad? Not good, replace the tires. The front tire has a lot to do with the traction of your rear tire in the rain. The front tire (with good tread) throws water away from the tracking path of your bike. Check it out. Todd >can you all give me tips as to how to ride differently in the rain? I >know a few things, but any tips would help after my two skids >Sunday...not fun! From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 11:12:11 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA05502; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:12:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA24608; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:12:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from alpha.mcit.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA03060; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:11:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from ndcrelay.mcit.com (ndcrelay.mcit.com [166.37.172.49]) by alpha.mcit.com (8.8.8/) with ESMTP id LAA15508; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:11:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from imeid01.mcit.com.mci.com (imeid01.mcit.com [166.37.221.13]) by ndcrelay.mcit.com (8.8.7/) with ESMTP id LAA23346; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:11:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from mci.com ([166.32.114.127]) by imeid01.mcit.com.mci.com (Intermail v3.1 117 223) with ESMTP id <19971202161120.MFUV461@XXXXXX>; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:11:20 -0600 Message-ID: <34843328.F2452D31@mci.com> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 11:11:20 -0500 From: Dale Horstman Reply-To: Dale.Horstman@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "O'Brien, Jeannette" CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Rain Riding... References: <2AA74B7F5518D111ADAF00805F31F84D28D32C@badge.tuckerflyer.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It's generally always better to use both brakes together. I think the MSF curriculum is a bit paranoid about the rear brake, talking about highsides and all. If you use both brakes, and the rear locks up, just release the rear and reapply, again, quickly but gently. I've got disc brakes all around (2 up front, 1 in the rear) and I've noticed a serious lack of grab initially when I'm in rainy conditions. It evidently takes a little bit of time for the brake pads to skim all the water off the rotors so they can grab metal. This really messes things up in stop and go city traffic, I've got to give myself lots of stopping room in those conditions. I just ride a little slower, trying to avoid any sudden changes (like hard turns, lots of throttle, or hard braking). You have to be REALLY aware of what's happening around you, since you are even less visible in bad conditions than normal. Cages simply don't know you are there. D (the H) O'Brien, Jeannette wrote: > Actually, I stupidly did NOT use the rear brake, I think that's why the > back tire skidded the first time. The second time I was just forced to > stop too entirely quickly for the wet conditions... I was told later to > use both brakes but very gently, is that true? I'm usually pretty light > on the rear anyway since the MSF class taught me it locks up so > easily...I guess I learned something(?)!! > > - J From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 11:28:24 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA06073; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:28:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA25173; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:28:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from micros-bh.micros.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA03964; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:28:07 -0500 (EST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by micros-bh.micros.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) id LAA03314 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:28:05 -0500 Received: from micros.micros.com by micros-bh.micros.com via smap (3.2) id xma003270; Tue, 2 Dec 97 11:28:00 -0500 Received: from smtplink.micros.com (smtplink.micros.com [206.241.52.10]) by micros.micros.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/micros-2.1) with SMTP id LAA19871 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:27:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccMail by smtplink.micros.com (ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.00) id AA881079754; Tue, 02 Dec 97 11:25:14 -0500 Message-Id: <9712028810.AA881079754@smtplink.micros.com> X-Mailer: ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.00 Date: Tue, 02 Dec 97 11:22:17 -0500 From: "Brian McCoy" Cc: Subject: Re[2]: Rain Riding... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jeannette, Are you down shifting at the same time? I know (same bike) that these have a lot of reverse torque (when you down shift, if you don't keep on the gas it will lock the tire). I can do this on hot roads in the middle of the summer, so it would be an issue when wet or cold. I used to get a kick out of sliding the rear through a corner when doing it too... until an almost high-side. When riding in the rain, I personally tend towards no rear brake unless in a panic situation (this is ALWAYS true). When in a hard stop, it's full front, engine brake and then maybe a little rear. I don't slide that much with this style - but as always YMMV.. Ride safe, Brian ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: RE: Rain Riding... Author: "O'Brien Jeannette" at smtplink-micros Date: 12/2/97 10:53 AM Actually, I stupidly did NOT use the rear brake, I think that's why the back tire skidded the first time. The second time I was just forced to stop too entirely quickly for the wet conditions... I was told later to use both brakes but very gently, is that true? I'm usually pretty light on the rear anyway since the MSF class taught me it locks up so easily...I guess I learned something(?)!! - J From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 11:36:15 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA06690; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:36:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA25714; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:36:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from alpha.mcit.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA04865; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:35:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from omzrelay.mcit.com (omzrelay.mcit.com [166.37.204.49]) by alpha.mcit.com (8.8.8/) with ESMTP id LAA26621 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:35:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from imeid04.mcit.com.mci.com (imeid04.mcit.com [166.37.221.16]) by omzrelay.mcit.com (8.8.7/) with ESMTP id KAA26482; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:35:06 -0600 (CST) Received: from mci.com ([166.32.114.127]) by imeid04.mcit.com.mci.com (Intermail v3.1 117 223) with ESMTP id <19971202163505.BNVM455@XXXXXX>; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:35:05 -0600 Message-ID: <348438B4.9A70BD73@mci.com> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 11:35:01 -0500 From: Dale Horstman Reply-To: Dale.Horstman@XXXXXX X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Todd Peer CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Rain Riding... References: <19971202160421.BHRS455@[166.41.242.141]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Snotties? I've always called them Tar Snakes...;-) Either way, they are slicker'n snot on a doornob. (Sorry, I'm slipping into my Western PA dialect again.) Horkster Todd Peer wrote: > First off, go a little slower in corners. Avoid wet leaves, obvious > oil slicks, white(yellow) lettering and lines, and the snottie stuff. > Snotties are the tar that road maintenance spills into cracks in the > asphalt. On poorly maintained roads they're like black snakes all > over the road. And on hot days, they're just as slick as in rain. > > Check the tread on the outside edge of your tires. Good? Good. Bad? > Not good, replace the tires. The front tire has a lot to do with the > traction of your rear tire in the rain. The front tire (with good > tread) throws water away from the tracking path of your bike. Check > it out. > > Todd > > >can you all give me tips as to how to ride differently in the rain? I > >know a few things, but any tips would help after my two skids > >Sunday...not fun! From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 11:36:16 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA06691; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:36:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA25715; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:36:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from relay2.smtp.psi.net by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA04854; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:35:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from subspace.tuckerflyer.com by relay2.smtp.psi.net (8.8.5/SMI-5.4-PSI) id LAA05135; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:35:50 -0500 (EST) Received: by subspace.tuckerflyer.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) id ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:34:14 -0500 Message-ID: <2AA74B7F5518D111ADAF00805F31F84D28D332@badge.tuckerflyer.com> From: "O'Brien, Jeannette" To: "'Dale.Horstman@XXXXXX'" Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Rain Riding... Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:34:01 -0500 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/plain I thought (I could be wrong) that MSF taught specifically NOT to let up on the rear brake when it locks up 'cause the bike will go down...is this not true? I thought they said just stay on the brake & get the bike under control & stop, but never let off the rear brake in a skid. (?) - Jeannette > -----Original Message----- > From: Dale Horstman [SMTP:Dale.Horstman@XXXXXX] > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 1997 11:11 AM > To: O'Brien, Jeannette > Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Rain Riding... > > It's generally always better to use both brakes together. I think the > MSF curriculum is a bit paranoid about the rear brake, talking about > highsides and all. If you use both brakes, and the rear locks up, > just > release the rear and reapply, again, quickly but gently. > > > D (the H) > > > O'Brien, Jeannette wrote: > > > Actually, I stupidly did NOT use the rear brake, I think that's why > the > > back tire skidded the first time. The second time I was just forced > to > > stop too entirely quickly for the wet conditions... I was told > later to > > use both brakes but very gently, is that true? I'm usually pretty > light > > on the rear anyway since the MSF class taught me it locks up so > > easily...I guess I learned something(?)!! > > > > - J > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 11:39:16 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA06984; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:39:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA25873; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:39:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from imisys.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA05303; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:39:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from [12.3.130.190] by imisys.com (SMTPD32-3.00) id ADA71DA00A4; Tue Dec 02 10:47:51 1997 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:37:45 -0500 Message-ID: <01BCFF16.B50CA740.jywon@imisys.com> From: Justin Won Reply-To: "jywon@XXXXXX" To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: RE: Rain Riding... Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:37:43 -0500 Organization: IMI Systems, Inc. X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Todd makes some good points. The basic rule of thumb in the wet is to do everything a little slower and gentler than under normal conditions. Don't make any sudden maneuvers, i.e. speed or directional changes, and always apply your brakes evenly. You can actually get quite a bit of traction on wet roads, as long as your rubber is in good condition and your not going over any surface anomolies. Steel plates, RR tracks, lane markers, crosswalk paint and the dreaded "snottie stuff" should all be avoided or negotiated with extreme care. I wouldn't worry too much about rear wheel lockup, as long as you can keep the bike fairly straight. In fact, in the MSF class they cover that exercise to familiarize you with the feeling. Sliding out the rear is much more controllable than doing the same with the front. Now THAT will make you pucker up if you're not expecting it. Justin On Tuesday, December 02, 1997 10:59 AM, Todd Peer [SMTP:Todd.B.Peer@XXXXXX] wrote: > > First off, go a little slower in corners. Avoid wet leaves, obvious > oil slicks, white(yellow) lettering and lines, and the snottie stuff. > Snotties are the tar that road maintenance spills into cracks in the > asphalt. On poorly maintained roads they're like black snakes all > over the road. And on hot days, they're just as slick as in rain. > > Check the tread on the outside edge of your tires. Good? Good. Bad? > Not good, replace the tires. The front tire has a lot to do with the > traction of your rear tire in the rain. The front tire (with good > tread) throws water away from the tracking path of your bike. Check > it out. > > Todd > > >can you all give me tips as to how to ride differently in the rain? I > >know a few things, but any tips would help after my two skids > >Sunday...not fun! > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 11:47:55 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA07202; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:47:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA26087; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:47:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from citi.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA05617; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:47:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from johnston.citi.com ([207.226.79.175]) by citi.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA12382 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:47:45 -0500 Received: by johnston.citi.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BCFF18.53AD5E20@XXXXXX>; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:49:20 -0500 Message-ID: <01BCFF18.53AD5E20@johnston.citi.com> From: Robert Johnston To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: Use of Rear Brake was RE: Rain Riding... Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:49:15 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I seldom use my rear brake, typically only when I am traveling approx. 15mph or less, and relay almost entirely on the front brake. -----Original Message----- From: O'Brien, Jeannette [SMTP:jlobrien@XXXXXX] Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 1997 10:53 AM To: 'Dale.Horstman@XXXXXX' Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Rain Riding... Actually, I stupidly did NOT use the rear brake, I think that's why the back tire skidded the first time. The second time I was just forced to stop too entirely quickly for the wet conditions... I was told later to use both brakes but very gently, is that true? I'm usually pretty light on the rear anyway since the MSF class taught me it locks up so easily...I guess I learned something(?)!! - J From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 11:49:34 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA07290; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:49:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA26167; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:49:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from relay2.smtp.psi.net by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA05652; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:49:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from subspace.tuckerflyer.com by relay2.smtp.psi.net (8.8.5/SMI-5.4-PSI) id LAA11211; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:49:22 -0500 (EST) Received: by subspace.tuckerflyer.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) id ; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:47:46 -0500 Message-ID: <2AA74B7F5518D111ADAF00805F31F84D28D333@badge.tuckerflyer.com> From: "O'Brien, Jeannette" To: "'Brian McCoy'" Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Re[2]: Rain Riding... Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:47:32 -0500 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/plain Yep, I haven't been gassing when shifting down. Actually, the first skid happened when I thought I was in 3rd (but was really in 2nd) & shifted down (OOPS) to 1st...the bike did NOT like that. My engine was going a bit too fast for first & that's when I skidded...around a slow curve merging into traffic - YIKES. - Jeannette > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian McCoy [SMTP:bmccoy@XXXXXX] > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 1997 11:22 AM > Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re[2]: Rain Riding... > > > Jeannette, > > Are you down shifting at the same time? I know (same bike) > that > these have a lot of reverse torque (when you down shift, if you > don't > keep on the gas it will lock the tire). I can do this on hot > roads in > the middle of the summer, so it would be an issue when wet or > cold. I > used to get a kick out of sliding the rear through a corner when > doing > it too... until an almost high-side. > > When riding in the rain, I personally tend towards no rear > brake > unless in a panic situation (this is ALWAYS true). When in a > hard > stop, it's full front, engine brake and then maybe a little rear. > I > don't slide that much with this style - but as always YMMV.. > > Ride safe, > > Brian > > > ______________________________ Reply Separator > _________________________________ > Subject: RE: Rain Riding... > Author: "O'Brien Jeannette" at > smtplink-micros > Date: 12/2/97 10:53 AM > > > Actually, I stupidly did NOT use the rear brake, I think that's why > the > back tire skidded the first time. The second time I was just forced > to > stop too entirely quickly for the wet conditions... I was told later > to > use both brakes but very gently, is that true? I'm usually pretty > light > on the rear anyway since the MSF class taught me it locks up so > easily...I guess I learned something(?)!! > > - J > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 11:57:26 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA07538; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:57:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA26318; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:57:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from alpha.mcit.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id LAA05898; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:55:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from ndcrelay.mcit.com (ndcrelay.mcit.com [166.37.172.49]) by alpha.mcit.com (8.8.8/) with ESMTP id LAA05283; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:54:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from imeid04.mcit.com.mci.com (imeid04.mcit.com [166.37.221.16]) by ndcrelay.mcit.com (8.8.7/) with ESMTP id LAA00668; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:54:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from localHost ([166.41.242.141]) by imeid04.mcit.com.mci.com (Intermail v3.1 117 223) with SMTP id <19971202165455.BSJZ455@[166.41.242.141]>; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:54:55 -0600 Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 11:44 -0500 (EST) From: Todd Peer To: Dale Horstman CC: "O'Brien, Jeannette" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Rain Riding... X-Mailer: MailRoom v2.1e Message-Id: <19971202165455.BSJZ455@[166.41.242.141]> Dale wrote: >It's generally always better to use both brakes together. I think the >MSF curriculum is a bit paranoid about the rear brake, talking about >highsides and all. If you use both brakes, and the rear locks up, just >release the rear and reapply, again, quickly but gently. If you brake (rear) and skid in a corner, your chances for a high side incident are huge, especially if you release the brake. >I've got disc brakes all around (2 up front, 1 in the rear) and I've >noticed a serious lack of grab initially when I'm in rainy conditions. >It evidently takes a little bit of time for the brake pads to skim all the >water >off the rotors so they can grab metal. This really messes things up in >stop and go city traffic, I've got to give myself lots of stopping room >in those conditions. I just ride a little slower, trying to avoid any >sudden changes (like hard turns, lots of throttle, or hard braking). >You have to be REALLY aware of what's happening around you, >since you are even less visible in bad conditions than normal. Cages >simply don't know you are there. Yup! Todd From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 12:01:59 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA07695; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 12:01:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA26489; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 12:01:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from portal.visa.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA06153; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 12:01:47 -0500 (EST) Received: by portal.visa.com id AA06140 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for dc-cycles@XXXXXX); Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:01:30 -0800 Received: by portal.visa.com (Protected-side Proxy Mail Agent-1); Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:01:30 -0800 Message-Id: From: "Jordan, Michael" To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" Subject: RE: Rain Riding... Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:01:48 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 Encoding: 24 TEXT >I thought (I could be wrong) that MSF taught specifically NOT to let up >on the rear brake when it locks up 'cause the bike will go down...is >this not true? I thought they said just stay on the brake & get the >bike under control & stop, but never let off the rear brake in a skid. If you wait until you're completely (or almost completely) sideways before you let up on the rear brake, it can get quite interesting (can you say "High Side"?) Backing off on the rear brake as soon as you feel the rear end start to slide will usually get you back on track with just a hint of rear end wiggle (we're talking about the bike here...) The further sideways you get, the bigger the hint The basics are to slow down (LOTS less traction available) and be as smooth as possible - no sudden moves. Michael (I'm so good, I don't even have to be moving to fall down) Jordan '93 GSX 1100GP '86 SRX-6 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 12:02:17 1997 Received: from tove.cs.umd.edu by pita.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA07712; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 12:02:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu by tove.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA26501; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 12:02:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from imisys.com by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88) id MAA06165; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 12:02:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from [12.3.130.190] by imisys.com (SMTPD32-3.00) id A301FE0128; Tue Dec 02 11:10:41 1997 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 12:00:35 -0500 Message-ID: <01BCFF19.E5E6BA60.jywon@imisys.com> From: Justin Won Reply-To: "jywon@XXXXXX" To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: RE: Rain Riding... Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 12:00:34 -0500 Organization: IMI Systems, Inc. X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You definitely should NOT release the rear brake if your rear slides out to the side. Releasing the brake will allow the rear tire to regain traction causing a sudden directional and attitude change of the bike, and most likely resulting in a high side get off. Not recommended. However, if the rear locks and the bike stays straight, you can let up on the brake without too much concern. Justin On Tuesday, December 02, 1997 11:34 AM, O'Brien, Jeannette [SMTP:jlobrien@XXXXXX] wrote: > I thought (I could be wrong) that MSF taught specifically NOT to let up > on the rear brake when it locks up 'cause the bike will go down...is > this not true? I thought they said just stay on the brake & get the > bike under control & stop, but never let off the rear brake in a skid. > (?) > > - Jeannette > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Dale Horstman [SMTP:Dale.Horstman@XXXXXX] > > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 1997 11:11 AM > > To: O'Brien, Jeannette > > Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > Subject: Re: Rain Riding... > > > > It's ge